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The liberal world order, which lasted from the end of World War 2 until today, is rapidly collapsing. The center of gravity is shifting from west to east where China and India are experiencing explosive growth and where a revitalized Russia has restored its former stature as a credible global superpower. These developments, coupled with America’s imperial overreach and chronic economic stagnation, have severely hampered US ability to shape events or to successfully pursue its own strategic objectives. As Washington’s grip on global affairs continues to loosen and more countries reject the western development model, the current order will progressively weaken clearing the way for a multipolar world badly in need of a new security architecture. Western elites, who are unable to accept this new dynamic, continue to issue frenzied statements expressing their fear of a future in which the United States no longer dictates global policy.

At the 2019 Munich Security Conference, Chairman Wolfgang Ischinger, underscored many of these same themes. Here’s an excerpt from his presentation:

“The whole liberal world order appears to be falling apart – nothing is as it once was… Not only do war and violence play a more prominent role again: a new great power confrontation looms at the horizon. In contrast to the early 1990s, liberal democracy and the principle of open markets are no longer uncontested….

In this international environment, the risk of an inter-state war between great and middle powers has clearly increased….What we had been observing in many places around the world was a dramatic increase in brinkmanship, that is, highly risky actions on the abyss – the abyss of war….

No matter where you look, there are countless conflicts and crises…the core pieces of the international order are breaking apart, without it being clear whether anyone can pick them up – or even wants to. (“Who will pick up the pieces?”, Munich Security Conference)

Ischinger is not alone in his desperation nor are his feelings limited to elites and intellectuals. By now, most people are familiar with the demonstrations that have rocked Paris, the political cage-match that is tearing apart England (Brexit), the rise of anti-immigrant right-wing groups that have sprung up across Europe, and the surprising rejection of the front-runner candidate in the 2016 presidential elections in the US. Everywhere the establishment and their neoliberal policies are being rejected by the masses of working people who have only recently begun to wreak havoc on a system that has ignored them for more than 30 years. Trump’s public approval ratings have improved, not because he has “drained the swamp” as he promised, but because he is still seen as a Washington outsider despised by the political class, the foreign policy establishment and the media. His credibility rests on the fact that he is hated by the coalition of elites who working people now regard as their sworn enemy.

The president of the prestigious Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Haass, summed up his views on the “weakening of the liberal world order” in an article that appeared on the CFR’s website. Here’s what he said:

“Attempts to build global frameworks are failing. Protectionism is on the rise; the latest round of global trade talks never came to fruition. ….At the same time, great power rivalry is returning…

There are several reasons why all this is happening, and why now. The rise of populism is in part a response to stagnating incomes and job loss, owing mostly to new technologies but widely attributed to imports and immigrants. Nationalism is a tool increasingly used by leaders to bolster their authority, especially amid difficult economic and political conditions….

But the weakening of the liberal world order is due, more than anything else, to the changed attitude of the U.S. Under President Donald Trump, the US decided against joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership and to withdraw from the Paris climate agreement. It has threatened to leave the North American Free Trade Agreement and the Iran nuclear deal. It has unilaterally introduced steel and aluminum tariffs, relying on a justification (national security) that others could use, in the process placing the world at risk of a trade war….America First” and the liberal world order seem incompatible.” (“Liberal World Order, R.I.P.”, Richard Haass, CFR)

What Haass is saying is that the cure for globalisation is more globalization, that the greatest threat to the liberal world order is preventing the behemoth corporations from getting more of what they want; more self-aggrandizing trade agreements, more offshoring of businesses, more outsourcing of jobs, more labor arbitrage, and more privatization of public assets and critical resources. Trade liberalization is not liberalization, it does not strengthen democracy or create an environment where human rights, civil liberties and the rule of law are respected. It’s a policy that focuses almost-exclusively on the free movement of capital in order to enrich wealthy shareholders and fatten the bottom line. The sporadic uprisings around the world– Brexit, yellow vests, emergent right wing groups– can all trace their roots back to these one-sided, corporate-friendly trade deals that have precipitated the steady slide in living standards, the shrinking of incomes, and the curtailing of crucial benefits for the great mass of working people across the US and Europe. President Trump is not responsible for the outbreak of populism and social unrest, he is merely an expression of the peoples rage. Trump’s presidential triumph was a clear rejection of the thoroughly-rigged elitist system that continues to transfer the bulk of the nation’s wealth to tiniest layer of people at the top.

Haass’s critique illustrates the level of denial among elites who are now gripped by fear of an uncertain future.

As we noted earlier, the center of gravity has shifted from west to east, which is the one incontrovertible fact that cannot be denied. Washington’s brief unipolar moment –following the breakup of the Soviet Union in December, 1991 — has already passed and new centers of industrial and financial power are gaining pace and gradually overtaking the US in areas that are vital to America’s primacy. This rapidly changing economic environment is accompanied by widespread social discontent, seething class-based resentment, and ever-more radical forms of political expression. The liberal order is collapsing, not because the values espoused in the 60s and 70s have lost their appeal, but because inequality is widening, the political system has become unresponsive to the demands of the people, and because US can no longer arbitrarily impose its will on the world.

Globalization has fueled the rise of populism, it has helped to exacerbate ethnic and racial tensions, and it is largely responsible for the hollowing out of America’s industrial core. Haass’s antidote would only throw more gas on the fire and hasten the day when liberals and conservatives form into rival camps and join in a bloody battle to the end. Someone has to stop the madness before the country descends into a second Civil War.

What Haass fails to discuss, is Washington’s perverse reliance on force to preserve the liberal world order, after all, it’s not like the US assumed its current dominant role by merely competing more effectively in global markets. Oh, no. Behind the silk glove lies the iron fist, which has been used in over 50 regime change operations since the end of WW2. The US has over 800 military bases scattered across the planet and has laid to waste one country after the other in successive interventions, invasions and occupations for as long as anyone can remember. This penchant for violence has been sharply criticized by other members of the United Nations, but only Russia has had the courage to openly oppose Washington where it really counts, on the battlefield.

Russia is presently engaged in military operations that have either prevented Washington from achieving its strategic objectives (like Ukraine) or rolled back Washington’s proxy-war in Syria. Naturally, liberal elites like Haass feel threatened by these developments since they are accustomed to a situation in which ‘the world is their oyster’. But, alas, oysters have been removed from the menu, and the United States is going to have to make the adjustment or risk a third world war.

What Russian President Vladimir Putin objects to, is Washington’s unilateralism, the cavalier breaking of international law to pursue its own imperial ambitions. Ironically, Putin has become the greatest defender of the international system and, in particular, the United Nations which is a point he drove home in his presentation at the 70th session of the UN General Assembly in New York on September 28, 2015, just two days before Russian warplanes began their bombing missions in Syria. Here’s part of what he said:

“The United Nations is unique in terms of legitimacy, representation and universality….We consider any attempt to undermine the legitimacy of the United Nations as extremely dangerous. It may result in the collapse of the entire architecture of international relations, leaving no rules except the rule of force. The world will be dominated by selfishness rather than collective effort, by dictate rather than equality and liberty, and instead of truly sovereign nations we will have colonies controlled from outside.”(Russian President Vladimir Putin at the 70th session of the UN General Assembly)

Putin’s speech, followed by the launching of the Russian operation in Syria, was a clear warning to the foreign policy establishment that they would no longer be allowed to topple governments and destroy countries with impunity. Just as Putin was willing to put Russian military personnel at risk in Syria, so too, he will probably put them at risk in Venezuela, Lebanon, Ukraine and other locations where they might be needed. And while Russia does not have anywhere near the raw power of the US military, Putin seems to be saying that he will put his troops in the line of fire to defend international law and the sovereignty of nations. Here’s Putin again:

“We all know that after the end of the Cold War the world was left with one center of dominance, and those who found themselves at the top of the pyramid were tempted to think that, since they are so powerful and exceptional, they know best what needs to be done and thus they don’t need to reckon with the UN, which, instead of rubber-stamping the decisions they need, often stands in their way….

We should all remember the lessons of the past. For example, we remember examples from our Soviet past, when the Soviet Union exported social experiments, pushing for changes in other countries for ideological reasons, and this often led to tragic consequences and caused degradation instead of progress.

It seems, however, that instead of learning from other people’s mistakes, some prefer to repeat them and continue to export revolutions, only now these are “democratic” revolutions. Just look at the situation in the Middle East and Northern Africa already mentioned by the previous speaker. … Instead of bringing about reforms, aggressive intervention indiscriminately destroyed government institutions and the local way of life. Instead of democracy and progress, there is now violence, poverty, social disasters and total disregard for human rights, including even the right to life.

I’m urged to ask those who created this situation: do you at least realize now what you’ve done?” (Russian President Vladimir Putin at the 70th session of the UN General Assembly)

Here Putin openly challenges the concept of a ‘liberal world order’ which in fact is a sobriquet used to conceal Washington’s relentless plundering of the planet. There’s nothing liberal about toppling regimes and plunging millions of people into anarchy, poverty and desperation. Putin is simply trying to communicate to US leaders that the world is changing, that nations in Asia are gaining strength and momentum, and that Washington will have to abandon the idea that any constraint on its behavior is a threat to its national security interests.

Former national security advisor to Jimmy Carter, Zbigniew Brzezinski, appears to agree on this point and suggests that the US begin to rethink its approach to foreign policy now that the world has fundamentally changed and other countries are demanding a bigger place at the table.

What most people don’t realize about Brzezinski, is that he dramatically changed his views on global hegemony a few years after he published his 1997 masterpiece The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperative. In his 2012 book, Strategic Vision, Brzezinski recommended a more thoughtful and cooperative approach that would ease America’s unavoidable transition (decline?) without creating a power vacuum that could lead to global chaos. Here’s a short excerpt from an article he wrote in 2016 for the American Interest titled “Toward a Global Realignment”:

“The fact is that there has never been a truly “dominant” global power until the emergence of America on the world scene….That era is now ending….As its era of global dominance ends, the United States needs to take the lead in realigning the global power architecture….The United States is still the world’s politically, economically, and militarily most powerful entity but, given complex geopolitical shifts in regional balances, it is no longer the globally imperial power.

America can only be effective in dealing with the current Middle Eastern violence if it forges a coalition that involves, in varying degrees, also Russia and China….

A constructive U.S. policy must be patiently guided by a long-range vision. It must seek outcomes that promote the gradual realization in Russia… that its only place as an influential world power is ultimately within Europe. China’s increasing role in the Middle East should reflect the reciprocal American and Chinese realization that a growing U.S.-PRC partnership in coping with the Middle Eastern crisis is an historically significant test of their ability to shape and enhance together wider global stability.

The alternative to a constructive vision, and especially the quest for a one-sided militarily and ideologically imposed outcome, can only result in prolonged and self-destructive futility.

Since the next twenty years may well be the last phase of the more traditional and familiar political alignments with which we have grown comfortable, the response needs to be shaped now…. And that accommodation has to be based on a strategic vision that recognizes the urgent need for a new geopolitical framework.” (“Toward a Global Realignment”, Zbigniew Brzezinski, The American Interest)

This strikes me as a particularly well-reasoned and insightful article. It shows that Brzezinski understood that the world had changed, that power had shifted eastward, and that the only path forward for America was cooperation, accommodation, integration and partnership. Tragically, there is no base of support for these ideas on Capital Hill, the White House or among the U.S. foreign policy establishment. The entire political class and their allies in the media unanimously support a policy of belligerence, confrontation and war. The United States will not prevail in a confrontation with Russia and China any more than it will be able to turn back the clock to the post war era when America, the Superpower, reigned supreme. Confrontation will only accelerate the pace of US decline and the final collapse of the liberal world order.

 
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  1. Walt says:

    Zbig has fially admitted that America needs to become friends with Russia. We can not handle the world alone,but with Russia we would have 90% of the worlds nuclear weapons and vast geopolitical ifluence. Americans do hot have anything against Russia. It is the neocon cabal that is fostering conflict . Thet just can not get over the fact that they tried and failed to take control of Russia. They are trying to do so to the u.S.A.

    • Agree: Miro23
  2. Walt says:

    Zbig is right. We need to be friends with Russia , not enemies.

  3. ”2. Russia should become the real leader of the new process. (It has already become it but not yet aware of the fact.) The West and Israel need a strategic alliance with the Muslim world more than anything else, and this alliance is possible only through Russia. Only Russia in an alliance with the Muslim world can keep China in check without conflicts, helping it find its new place in the world as another super-power.

    3. Leaders of Russia, America, Israel, Europe, Iran, India, and international financial capitals must initiate a dialogue over leaving this crisis behind and preventing events like those which swept America on September 11.

    A time of change is upon us, and it’s futile to wish we were living in some other era. We have to change ourselves and change the world…”

    Novaya Gazeta
    No. 75
    October 2001
    THE THIRD FORCE OF WORLD WAR III

    [MORE]

    ”THE AMERICANS DON’T REALIZE IT YET, BUT CHINA HAS WRITTEN ITS OWN SCRIPT FOR SQUEEZING THE UNITED STATES OFF THE WORLD STAGE. CHINA SUPPORTS ACTIONS OF THE WEST AIMED AT MUTUALLY ASSURED DESTRUCTION OF RUSSIA AND THE MUSLIM WORLD. THE WEST, RUSSIA, ISRAEL, AND THE MUSLIM WORLD MUST WORK TOGETHER.

    THE WESTERN SCRIPT

    […]

    “Using techniques of manipulating public opinion, the West is trying to establish the illusion of a global forces with the fascist- like ideology of Wahhabi fundamentalism. As far as the West is concerned, Wahhabi and Islam are the same thing. It is because of this that the essential terrorism of Wahhabi ideas is being formulated so simply for public consumption: all Muslims are terrorists by nature.

    The preliminary objective of brainwashing (Islam is the basis of terrorism) is thus achieved. ”

    “This script becomes possible when we assume that some Western elites and secret services made a kind of covert pact with this still-unknown Player.”

    THE CHINESE SCRIPT

    […]

    Throw a great deal of dollars into the market all at once, and the dollar will crash. A conflict with Taiwan may follow. It will be a conflict waged with American money, with American weapons, investment, and high technology. Add the nuclear factor here. Suffice it to recall the recent scandal when Chinese intelligence obtained all major nuclear secrets of the United States. ”

    Author: Viktor Minin
    [from WPS Monitoring Agency, http://www.wps.ru/e_index.html%5D

    http://www.russialist.org/archives/5497-14.php

    • Replies: @ben sampson
    , @Joe Wong
  4. MarkinLA says:

    What most people don’t realize about Brzezinski, is that he dramatically changed his views on global hegemony a few years after he published his 1997 masterpiece The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperative. In his 2012 book, Strategic Vision, Brzezinski recommended a more thoughtful and cooperative approach that would ease America’s unavoidable transition (decline?) without creating a power vacuum that could lead to global chaos.

    So somebody put forth a deluded crack-pot idea that got great traction and made a lot of people very rich and powerful who want to stay that way, but the originator now says he was wrong and we should change. Yeah, those rich and powerful people just have to agree to give up some of that. How likely is that without a major catastrophe forcing them, given what we know about human nature?

    Maybe the lesson is to have realistic ideas about foreign policy and relations in the future. Did anybody seriously believe countries with long histories like Russia and China were always going to be happy playing second fiddle to the US?

    • Replies: @hgw
  5. Haass’s critique illustrates the level of denial among elites who are now gripped by fear of an uncertain future.

    True, but their problem is compounded with their fear which is anchored in the past, whose real history blows all current, being discredited as I type this, narratives out of the water. This, plus most of them, Haas and CFR included, do not operate with actual facts and data.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  6. anon[423] • Disclaimer says:

    “The West and Israel need a strategic alliance with the Muslim world”

    Unfortunately, this is probably not entirely feasible considering the United States’s inappropriately close relationship to Israel and the American government’s radical stance of forcing LGBTQ issues; as San Jose proves, these people aren’t simply going to leave you alone, but rather they will make you conform under threat. Probably what will happen in the future is a Japan-EU-Russia alliance that makes peace with the Middle East and contains the Chinese military as much as possible. The US could very well find itself cut out at some point. It has already proved itself both reckless and incompetent with its handling of Iran, Israel, and Venezuela. Also, I suspect that neither ordinary EU citizens nor Asians will want to be ruled over by a group of POC racists who discriminate against Europeans, Asian males, and traditional families.

    I think the rest of the world should begin considering alternate defense arrangements. The US cannot afford to defend their interests forever with an aging, shrinking white Caucasian population and a growing, less capable and less conscientious replacement population less willing to die in imperial wars. Increasingly, the US will be less capable of defending others in the Pacific from China as it Affirmative Actions its air force; Obama was trying to do that throughout the whole of the American military and accomplished his objective by lowering standards. I think this process should continue in the future with disastrous results.

    In the future, Asia will try to make peace with China before they get too strong and China will reciprocate with generous territorial concessions in exchange for neutrality. For example, the Chinese may relinquish territorial claims in the Philippines in exchange for a treaty stating that the Philippines will not base the American military or buy weapons from them, but they would be allowed to buy weapons from third parties such as the Russians. A series of moves like this might dramatically weaken the American position in the region, allowing China to jumpskip to Africa and the Middle East more effectively. Perhaps a similar deal will be worked out with Taiwan: autonomy and a peace treaty in exchange for no weapon purchases or defense arrangements with the US, but Taiwan could still buy Russian weapons.

    “Zbig has fially admitted that America needs to become friends with Russia.”

    As Karlin has noted, I don’t see this happening in the near future, not with the insane levels of anti-Russian hate coming from the American left, some of which is just pure racial hatred of whites projected onto Russians.

  7. bro3886 says:

    All this is irrelevant in the long run. America will be a third-world country in 50 years or less. Imagine a government filled with AOCs, Omars, and Bookers, with a constituency that matches. Brazil of the North isn’t going to be a superpower. We can look on that as a silver lining.

  8. Republic says:

    The United States will not prevail in a confrontation with Russia and China any more than it will be able to turn back the clock to the post war era when America, the Superpower, reigned supreme. Confrontation will only accelerate the pace of US decline and the final collapse of the liberal world order.

    Very dangerous times are ahead. A declining superpower in late empire mode may make risky decisions.

    I wonder if America will have a Suez event in the upcoming decade?

    The 1956 Suez crisis heralded the rise of a new superpower and the eclipse of another one.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  9. dearieme says:
    @anon

    some of which is just pure racial hatred of whites projected onto Russians

    That hadn’t occurred to me. But can it be true?

    • Replies: @Sollipsist
  10. “The liberal world order, which lasted from the end of World War 2 until today”

    Thanks for the laugh.

    It was over with the passing of the 1947 National Security Act.

  11. @Walt

    I don’t know how fucked up you have to be to use “We” to refer to the murderous US State but you should seek competent professional psychiatric assistance, Soon.

  12. anon[275] • Disclaimer says:

    “That hadn’t occurred to me. But can it be true?”

    The attitudes and political beliefs of your average Russian are very similar to many Red State conservatives, as has been noted on this webzine at least once in recent memory (and with an accompanying political map with similarities noted between American Blue and Red States compared with Russia). The American left projects its racist hate onto the Russians in response to those similarities. It is not a coincidence that this anti-Russian climate of hatred started back when Putin showed up the identitarian left’s president, Barack Obama, over Libya. That also explains the left’s hypocrisy on war: their tribe’s racial leader, Obama, wanted war in Libya, so war is now good; Russia opposed it and later prevented war in Syria (which Obama wanted), so the Russians are now the bad guys. It’s purely a matter of tribal affiliation and racial hate on the part of the American left.

    • Replies: @Sam J.
    , @Che Guava
    , @bluedog
  13. @Republic

    I wonder if America will have a Suez event in the upcoming decade?

    She already had it and one is unfolding right this moment. For an empire of this size and influence, granted declining dramatically, it takes a sequence of events. “Suez Moment” for Britain happened during WW II, the actual Suez crisis was merely a nominal conclusion to British Empire dying in WW II.

    • Replies: @Republic
    , @Erebus
  14. Anon[332] • Disclaimer says:

    ““Suez Moment” for Britain happened during WW II, the actual Suez crisis was merely a nominal conclusion to British Empire dying in WW II.”

    True. Syria might have been the American Suez Moment. We’ll see in the coming years if we get a crisis that lays it all bare.

  15. @Anon

    We’ll see in the coming years if we get a crisis that lays it all bare.

    Ongoing real Revolution in Military Affairs and US losing conventional (and nuclear) arms race is what unfolds right now. Realistically, Putin’s March 1, 2018 Speech to Federal Assembly was also one of these moments–as I said, the process is protracted and at each of its phases US geopolitical cards have been aced and trumped, NO pun intended.

    • Replies: @hgw
  16. notanon says:

    when i read these people i get the impression there are two camps:

    1) political globalists who wanted a liberal world order but didn’t think about the economic side of things much and so let their economic policy be decided by the central banking mafia

    and

    2) the central banking mafia who understood globalization was simply their criminal looting of the West backed up by a big military who could be rented out from a corrupted political class.

    it seems the first group still don’t understand that it was the banking mafia’s neoliberal economics
    – currency debasement
    – usury
    – cheap labor
    that destroyed their dream.

    the same three things have been destroying civilizations for 3000 years.

    • Replies: @Endgame Napoleon
  17. notanon says:

    The West and Israel need a strategic alliance with the Muslim world more than anything else, and this alliance is possible only through Russia.

    i think this is short-sighted.

    the global north needs to combine to contain the global south or the central banking mafia will eventually use them to destroy the north’s genetic advantages and all our descendants will end up as 85 IQ slave-cattle.

  18. Priss Factor [AKA "Asagirian"] says: • Website

    The liberal world order, which lasted from the end of World War 2 until today, is rapidly collapsing.

    Really? Where?

    US is still in Middle East and now threatens war with Iran. Venezuela is on the brink.

    Japan and EU are the ever loyal dogs of the US. If they’ve been upset with Trump, it’s not because he wants to exert more influence but less.

  19. Republic says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    the actual Suez crisis was merely a nominal conclusion to British Empire dying in WW II

    .

    The Atlantic charter signed aboard the HMS Prince of Wales,in Placentia Bay,Newfoundland on August 14, 1941 by FDR and Churchill was probably the moment when the old British empire traded places with the new global power, the United States.

    So you are correct in your analysis.

  20. hgw says:
    @MarkinLA

    This is not really about history, it is about power. Many of the US allies have much longer histories, but that does not help them in the power department. China and Russia have enough power to stand only on their own two feet.

    • Replies: @Sally
  21. hgw says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    You should think more about US being aced. Syria was a masterstroke, but so was Ukraine, and not for Russia. Russia lost an extremely valuable ally and a trully brother nation, maybe forever. Ukraine, in the grand scheme of things, is a huge defeat for Russia.

    • Disagree: Biff
  22. Anon[341] • Disclaimer says:

    The West and Israel need a strategic alliance with the Muslim world more than anything else, and this alliance is possible only through Russia.

    Sberbank calls on UAE businesses to invest in Russia, offers help

    ”According to the statement, the Gulf countries’ total capital available for investment is estimated at more than $3.2 trillion but only “a small part” of capital earmarked for investing in Russia has actually gone into Russia-based projects.”

    ”The Russian visitors set out Sberbank’s technology strategy and described achievements by the Moscow-based lender in artificial intelligence development.

    They also “pointed out interest in Islamic finance”, the statement said.”

    http://emergingmarkets.me/sberbank-calls-on-uae-businesses-to-invest-in-russia-offers-help/

    • Replies: @Zumbuddi
  23. @hgw

    Ukraine, in the grand scheme of things, is a huge defeat for Russia.

    You definitely missed last 25 years of Russian-Ukrainian relations. You also, evidently, have very vague understanding of the Ukrainian inner dynamics. I am not sure we can speak of “brother nation” because Ukraine as political nation (and she did form as such by early 2000s) can not be “brother nation” to Russia by definition. In fact, being anti-Russia is the only natural state of Ukrainian political nation. There is another twist to all this–these are Russians now, who do not want to deal with Ukraine in any of her manifestations and, to rub the salt into the wound, Zbig was delusional when thought that denying Ukraine to Russia would spell the end of Russian “imperialism”. As it turned out, Russia is doing just fine without Ukraine. In a long run, if what is called Ukraine today decides to commit suicide by the cop, she sure can try to place US military bases East of Dniepr and we will observe a rather peculiar case of fireworks.

  24. @Republic

    The Atlantic charter signed aboard the HMS Prince of Wales,in Placentia Bay,Newfoundland on August 14, 1941 by FDR and Churchill was probably the moment when the old British empire traded places with the new global power, the United States.

    This happened in 1941 at secret ABC (America-Britain-Canada) consultations where Lord Halifax was trying to recruit American resources for defense of Britain’s imperial interests. US “politely” declined. Big Three became Big Two and a Half at 1943 Tehran Conference at which Stalin was very specific that USSR wanted American as a head of Overlord. All this pursuant to a strategic scandal between US and British Empire at Casablanca where General Stanley Embick of Marshall’s OPD accused Britain in his memorandum of avoiding fighting main Nazi forces due to Britain’s imperial interests. Churchill knew the significance of Tehran and suffered non-stop bouts of jealousy and suspicion towards FDR and Stalin. I am sure Sir Winston knew that FDR wanted to meet Stalin without him. Stalin refused to do so without Churchill. As per “global power”–sure, except for one teeny-weeny fact (or rather facts), since WW II “global power” didn’t win a single war against even more-or-less determined enemy.

    • Replies: @Sally
  25. @hgw

    Ukraine, in the grand scheme of things, is a huge defeat for Russia.

    It would have been a total catastrophe for Russia had she lost Sebastopol; but so long as Crimea is safely in Moscow’s hands, Ukraine is not make-or-break. Russia’s global position now, in fact, is even stronger than it was in 2014.

    • Agree: Iris
  26. neutral says:
    @bro3886

    Brazil of the North

    It will be much worse than Brazil, Brazil managed to cover up the reality that whites dominate politics and the economy (although there is a new push to copy the American affirmative action ideology). In America whites will not be able to do what is happening in Brazil, all politics will be non white dominated, likewise the woke corporate blue haired brigade will ensure that non whites dominate all companies, no exceptions allowed. The end result of this is predictable, Americans will be wishing they were like Brazil.

    • Replies: @notanon
    , @Anon
  27. neutral says:
    @Republic

    No it was earlier, it was when it decided to declare war on the Third Reich. It decided that Poland was more important than keeping its empire.

    • Replies: @notanon
    , @ploni almoni
  28. Miro23 says:

    Globalization has fueled the rise of populism, it has helped to exacerbate ethnic and racial tensions, and it is largely responsible for the hollowing out of America’s industrial core.

    Western corporations have been competing with each other (for decades now) to offshore everything to reduce costs /increase profits. The idea is to sell at Western prices and produce at Eastern prices, and this arbitrage has reached crazy proportions.

    The US has in fact exported whole industrial sectors (with the jobs and innovation). Same in Europe with a company such as Decathlon (Europe’s Nº1 sport goods supplier) entirely sourcing its products outside Europe.

    Conclusion that if globalization fails, then so do these companies, and they have a massive incentive buy political protection from Western governments – which they are doing. Nationalism and America First are anathema to them and they have (amazingly) managed to built globalization and open frontiers into the ethos of the EU and US – with all the self-serving multicultural Save the World blah.

    Jews also hate nationalism since it threatens their (minority) power and highlights dual loyalty (or no loyalty) so the Zio-Glob are on one side, and the public on the other, with little common ground between them.

    This doesn’t mean that it’s impossible to stop outsourcing. If it happened, then Decathlon would either go bankrupt or have to switch production to Rumania or Portugal = higher prices, but at least the money would stay in Europe. Same with the other industries, and the first step has to be to cut down the power of the EU bureaucracy and Washington.

  29. notanon says:
    @neutral

    It will be much worse than Brazil

    yes – Brazil is only Brazil cos US prosperity lifted up the entire continent.

    if US goes down Brazil becomes Venezuela, Venezuela becomes Haiti etc.

  30. notanon says:
    @neutral

    the banking mafia wanted war cos Hitler closed down the German branch of the central bank.

    the rest was puppetry.

    • Agree: Mike P
  31. Willie says: • Website

    Just prepare fort the impending surge in Totalitarian methods to halt the inevitable in the USA.
    The rest of the world is not our playground.
    Good luck.

  32. Alfred says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Haas and CFR included, do not operate with actual facts and data.

    Absolutely correct. Without an honest media, it is impossible to make good decisions.

    Those Zionists who control the media in the West are deluding themselves. They will be the biggest losers when ordinary people finally wake up to the fact that they have been lied to for over 100 years – WW1, WW2, Palestine, Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Ukraine, Russia, Crimea, MH-17, Skripals, Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, Syria, 9/11 and many other instances.

    • Agree: Zumbuddi
  33. Oristayne says:

    This is a phenomenal article. What an incredibly written piece; much respect to you Mike Whitney.

    • Agree: FB
  34. Ma Laoshi says:

    Not so fast. OK, so maybe Zbig had some second thoughts about the whole project in 2012. But didn’t the same Zbig opine in 2015, at the start of Russia’s Syria intervention, that the US should strike hard and fast before the Russkies managed to complete their buildup there? To me that sounded rather much like an unprovoked attack on Russian troops, who were legally in Syria at the invitation of its internationally recognized government.

    Bottom line, for all of his far-too-long career Mr. Brzezinski has been exactly what one would expect from the spiritual father of al-Qaeda: a vile and reckless individual. Anyone looking that way for salvation needs some time out for reflection.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Erebus
  35. Iris says:

    This strikes me as a particularly well-reasoned and insightful article. It shows that Brzezinski understood that the world had changed, that power had shifted eastward,

    This is an excellent article, which addresses the key historic driver of our time. By 2015, world GDP had already passed the threshold where the GDP share of the West had become lesser than the share of the Rest.

    The major share of global wealth shifting towards Asia is an ineluctable historic re-alignment; it is a natural return to the long-term historic balance pre-Industrial Revolution.

    Western politicians ‘ problem is that they don’t want to “break the news” to their people that Western standards of living are going to degrade ineluctably over the coming years, because that would expose their incompetence, as well as highlight the need to address wealth inequality in the West.

    It is easier instead to the blame the disenfranchised, pauperised citizens voting for Trump, Brexit, and other “extreme” political parties.

    • Agree: jacques sheete
    • Replies: @notanon
  36. Ahuehuete says:
    @bro3886

    When you think about it, the USA is going to become the next South Africa.

  37. Zbig says:

    Zbig was, and still is, even tho’ he is dead now. He was the original zio-neocon illuminist satantic globalist elite.

    • Replies: @Thales the Milesian
  38. Rubby2 says:
    @Walt

    At least Brzezinski became well aware of this shift. So many of America’s neo-conservatives have largely failed in expressing this defeat. Between Brzezinski and Boot, & the Others, they’ve all turned out to be fanatic ideologues.

  39. @notanon

    Ralph Nader used to say the big issue is money in politics—the money that “Congress Critters” use to get their government jobs at $174k. To get one of those government jobs, you don’t have to understand something as complex as the banking system, which is made more opaque by the globalist neoliberals who want to maintain the Cheap Labor Lobby’s beloved status quo.

    You don’t have to be Nomi Prins, someone who actually worked on Wall Street and knows its nooks and crannies, to get a Congress Critter job. You just have to be the right kind of pander bear with the right kind of faux outrage at selective moments.

    The other problem is that—like most of us in the general public—Congress Critters have to rely on people in the financial system to navigate the terrain. It’s a math-heavy field. Politicians have apparently always done this. They have created more than one era with too-big-to-fail institutions. That is what one of Prins’ books describes.

    But it does not matter whether it’s bankers or the manufacturers, employing welfare-assisted illegal aliens or foreign nationals on foreign soil. And it does not matter that Congress Critters occasionally put the bigwigs on the hot seat as a PR stunt. They aren’t going to do anything to actually change policy unless the corporate masters who fund their campaigns give them the go ahead. And they don’t really even understand why.

    [MORE]

    If you think Congress Critters understand the global banking system, you should watch the banking committee hearing on C-SPAN, where they grilled the Treasury Secretary, dressing him down like he was a $10-per-hour call center worker. It makes for good theater.

    Just like at a call center, the humiliation parade had nothing to do with the details of the work or getting anything done other than convincing voters that a bunch of fabulously wealthy legislators (every one) with a 212-day work year really care, especially about predatory factors in the financial system that supposedly affect only oppressed skin-pigmentation factions, located in their districts.

    You vicariously enjoy rebellious facial expressions that you could never exhibit during a frequently absentee mom manager’s tirades for fear of being fired from a churn job that does not cover the cost of rent that has risen by 72% over 25 years, even when you add any paltry commission for taking the trouble to always meeting your numbers. But that will be the extent of it. It is for show.

    My favorite part was Empire-related; it involved the Rep. from Guam, a Congress Critter from one of US’s far-flung territories. His mild and precise disposition made a strong contrast with the Chairwoman’s fiery ambiguity. Since his questions were math-related and about specific budgetary matters, the Treasury Secretary seemed more frazzled than when he was receiving the emotional Sermon from the gavel-happy chairwoman.

    Guam Rep asked the Treasury Secretary about a massive transference of funds from the budget, affecting things like the territory’s education budget, trying to clarify whether the Earned Income Tax Credit was actually a “liability.”

    The language of most of our legislators reflects how bought off they are by the Cheap Labor Lobby. Which is why this Rep from Guam’s straight-forward language was so refreshing.

    By design, the “Child” “Tax” “Credit” and the Earned Income Tax Credit sound like things that would not subtract from the overall budget to me, too, but this is not money going to people who paid too much income tax. This is money that is credited back to people who make too little to pay income tax.

    The moms often call it their “taxes,” when explaining to you what they plan to spend it on. It is not education, Rep. from Guam. It is stuff like trips to the beach with a boyfriend and tattoos. That’s doable for many low-wage mom workers since their major monthly bills are covered by government.

    I enjoyed the Treasury Secretary’s facial expressions at this point as well. It appeared to be two math types who didn’t really thrive on the process of figuring out how to spin this fiscal irresponsibility, squirming in their chairs and / or looking kind of aghast at the absurdity of the situation.

    It would have been nice if the Rep from Guam had been honest enough to narrow that down even more, explaining that the small amount of EITC money going to non-womb-productive, non-welfare-eligible citizens who mostly don’t bother to claim such a paltry sum is the not the big issue.

    It is the Refundable Child Tax Credit up to $6,431, not so much the smaller maximum EITC of up to $451. It is the big check, given as an additional reward to single-breadwinner, womb-productive households that also often receive free EBT food, reduced-cost rent, monthly cash assistance and free electricity when the single breadwinner works part-time, keeping her income under the earned-income limits for the programs.

    He mentioned that Guam has a lot of poor workers like that, but so does the mainland. It is one of the big reasons for the impending collapse: undremployment of prime-aged citizens.

    If it is due to technology, it is just because employers of office workers now mostly need data entry people since advanced software does most of the mid-level analytical work. And employers love to hire a near-100% womb-productive “diversity”of childbearing-aged moms with spousal income, rent-covering child support or welfare and refundable child tax credit cash who do not need decent pay or full-time hours. “It would mess them up with the government,” as one all-mom employer put it.

    Employers benefit from a welfare-fueled workforce that does not need higher pay. The Cheap Labor Lobby benefits. Congress Critters at $174k benefit via fat campaign war chests, but the many welfare-ineligible job seekers who need for pay alone to cover all household bills are screwed royally in this rigged system.

    It is also screwing the SS Trust Fund that is no longer running surpluses and a lot of other things.

    Guam Rep asked the Treasury Secretary if he was responsible and, specifically, what could he done to help restore fiscal order. Of course, the Treasury Secretary isn’t responsible for the mid-allocation of funds. Pandering Congress Critters are. They have the “power of the purse” per US Constitution. The Treasury Sec. just tries to balance the books.

    But it was nice that at least one of them showed some non-theatrical concern for finding out which of the six-figure Critters is responsible. He sounded like he wanted constructive action to stop the Neoliberal House of Cards from just putting more structurally unsound cards on the deck.

    Good luck with that.

  40. You’ve got to be kidding. He was wrong about everything. And evil. Just look at his face.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Sean
  41. notanon says:
    @Iris

    The major share of global wealth shifting towards Asia is an ineluctable historic re-alignment

    Wall St looted the US manufacturing base and moved it to China to line their own pockets – nothing ineluctable about it and it could be reversed tomorrow if the political class wasn’t so corrupt.

    #economic_treason

    • Replies: @FB
  42. All smoke and mirrors.

    The same degenerate clique has controlled the world through finance for over a thousand years. Their capital shifted from Venice to Amsterdam/London (eventually forming the British Empire) to the US after WW2 (becoming the Anglo-American Empire); and it will shift again elsewhere to continue the same objective of a one world government after the USA is sucked dry either economically or through war.

    If the Soviet Union was ever a threat or enemy, why did the USA transfer so much (ballistic, etc) technology to it during the Cold War? This was uncovered by historian Anthony Sutton in his book “Western Transfer of Technology to the Soviet Union” — something CFR officials (Brzezinski included) confirmed.

    _____

    “How the Venetian System Was Transplanted Into England”
    http://tarpley.net/online-books/against-oligarchy/how-the-venetian-system-was-transplanted-into-england/

    • Agree: Harbinger
    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @jacques sheete
    , @notanon
  43. Since America won’t look european it might look elsewhere.

  44. Sally says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Bretton Woods Conference 1944 I think transferred the reserve currency from British Pounds to USD.
    1946, Truman and Churchhill each declared all of the lands under the seas everywhere in the world belong to their respective nations, The Scranton Commission, the Palin Commission, Truman 1948 recognized the Jewish fort used to scatter the Palestinians off the Ottoman Oil Israel, and the oil companies took control of the world. What we are really seeing is that Globalism is nothing more than corporate mergers trying to prop up shareholder profits.. but even the mergers cannot produce the profits their separates parts once enjoyed. It is the oil empire, and the hegemonic control over reserve currency that is causing the decline.. The end of the road from oil profits by expansion into new oil fields. Ironically, Russia has an unlimited supply of gas, and it is cheaper than the cheapest.. so by default its oil companies are still in the game..

    The frontier is technology and they have tried to control that by government secrets, patents and copyrights but education and need have produced unwanted competitors which the globalist cannot control.

  45. @obwandiyag

    ‘You’ve got to be kidding. He was wrong about everything. And evil. Just look at his face.’

    There’s a dash of Tatar there. But don’t confuse your racism with moral insight.

  46. the final collapse of the liberal world order.

    It was never very liberal to begin with. These “liberals” were more than happy to be close to Saudi fundamentalists, supporting jewish apartheid regimes and close a blind eye to genocide in yemen. Fuck them.

    • Agree: renfro
  47. Nibrhm says:

    The United States unsolicited meddling in the state of so many countries had come back and bit us in the ass again and again, yet we fail to learn. Let’s look back at them: Syria, Libya, Iraq 2, Lebanon, Nicaragua, Chile, Viet Nan, Korea, Cuba (Batista), Iran (overthrow of democratically elected leader who was secular). Regime change doesn’t work, srong-arming doesn’t work. There are only two countries that are keeping the world from gaining permanent peace. They are Israel and the Saudi monarchy. Eliminate those two, educate Muslims to liberalize them as they were before the Saudi scum and leave Iran alone. There is nothing to fear from them. You Zbig, got what you asked for: Soviets out of Afghanistan, Soviet empire fail and your dear friends the Saudi monarchy run amuck all over he world. Now sit down and shut up..

  48. Sam J. says:
    @anon

    “…insane levels of anti-Russian hate coming from the American left, some of which is just pure racial hatred of whites projected onto Russians…”

    No this is not the left. It’s the Jews. They were looting the Russians and Putin stopped them. The Jews are parasites and anyone who stops their parasitical behavior stops their main function in life. It’s how they live so they pull out all the stops to prevent others from doing the same. They did the exact same thing with Germany and Spain when they lost control there and they will do the same to the US if, I hope, they lose power here.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  49. Sam J. says:
    @anon

    “…The American left projects its racist hate onto the Russians in response to those similarities…”

    This is a Jewish deflection to hide what they are doing. It’s the Jews. They own the media. They are responsible. They don’t have to print or display continuous hatred and lies about Russia, but they do. Any attempt for them to blame anyone but themselves is a lie and more disinformation.

    This is just one of the many reasons we must get rid of the Jews. This continuous lying and destruction of the truth. The Jews must go. Peacefully if we can get it but they must go no matter what. If we Whites are to survive we must get rid of the Jews and allow them no say in our lives.

  50. Sam J. says:

    We missed a golden opportunity at the end of the cold war to align with Russia. We could have helped them with loans, modernization and trade deals to both of our great benefit. Instead the Jews went over there and looted the whole country in our name.

    With all of North America in a huge trade block we would have been in a great position but instead all of us are being hollowed out by the Jews and becoming poorer every day while the Jews plunge our countries into racial wars.

    We must get rid of the Jews if we are to survive.

  51. @dearieme

    Just imagine people who have been indoctrinated against every hate except self-hate, and then given a warped mirror as a socially sanctioned release valve.

    Not to mention how useful scapegoating always is for powerful interests that prefer your attention elsewhere.

  52. Sally says:
    @hgw

    Haass:=> the cure for globalisation is more globalization, that the greatest threat to the liberal world order (EZ) is preventing the behemoth corporations from getting more of what they want; more self-aggrandizing trade agreements, more offshoring of businesses, more outsourcing of jobs, more labor arbitrage, and more privatization of public assets and critical resources.
    IMO, not properly explained is the cause of the bottom up dissatisfaction. It is a direct result of imposed monopolism developed by market enabled, monopoly protected, privately owned, behemoth powered corporate control over the ArmP (Armed rule making political (ArmP) structures [nation states] that host the presence of these corporations). In order to gain monopoly power and total ownership over all public and most important private resources in a host ArmP Structure, a host nation state, the corporate beasts had to employ nation state rule making powers to transfer public ownership and political control to the corporate side. Regime change and control of regime in control of the nation state hosts became the run of the mill mode to accomplish the unconscionable transfers of public to private (public electric power become private electric company power, garbage pickup transferred to private management companies, soldiers became mercenaries, etc.). National Leaders willing to transform of capitalism into monopolism for corrupt gain were not difficult to find; once corrupted the leaders became corporate puppets passing law after law that denied those the puppets governed “access to” the competitive market place. How was local competition denied: by trickle down federalism: feds dictate rules, the state and local levels implement them by law. local authorities license and permit laws, impose requirements to qualify. Copyright, patent and real estate ownership were internationalized, resources at libraries were labelled off limits, and high admission cost and qualification barriers to university knowledge were erected, treaties imposed international law into local lawsuits, the color of defense prevented prosecution of many caught criminals. The result: no competition exists, domestic economic stagnation defines the state of affairs eventually stagnation reduces demand, prices fall, and because competition is prohibited, prices continue to fall.

    Profit seeking globalist employing the principles of economic Zionism [seek to own everything, seek to control everything and seek to deny all others at whatever it takes, including the use of force, not just to win competitive battles, but to eliminate, decimate and destrory all fragments of any would be competitor] have killed all business not directed by and connected to the tentacles of monopoly powered corporate ownership Trade liberalization is not liberalization, it does not strengthen democracy or create an environment where human rights, civil liberties and the rule of law are respected. It’s a policy that focuses almost-exclusively on the free movement of capital in order to enrich wealthy shareholders and fatten the bottom line.

    IMO, Democracy is a bureaucracy, human rights is the quality and essence of human life.<[email protected] When globalism mentions the word Democracy it means its investments in the bureaucracies that keep under tight control, the governed populations in those nations that host the global market-monopoly powered, corporate structures that invade the host.

    Democracy describes an ArmP structure <= such structures control the variables of economics; and it is the corruption of those that man the ArmP Structures

  53. a.z says:
    @notanon

    seriously man no race is inherently superior. the first civilizations sprouted in asia the first superpower empire was persia the oldest standing civilization is china( both in asia) and people who could have given the world an alternative way of peaceful coexistence was those so called inferior brownskins the spaniards caliously eliminated( i m talking mayan and inca not aztec). bud the thing i m sure of is u haven’t achieved much in the still majority white usa as u lack the skillset so stop judging and think entire populace of non white people as inherently inferior while lack the intelligence and ability to succeed in a still somewhat functioning superpower with loads of opportunity

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Wally
    , @notanon
  54. Franz says:

    Globalization has fueled the rise of populism, it has helped to exacerbate ethnic and racial tensions… Someone has to stop the madness before the country descends into a second Civil War…

    Aside from the fact there wasn’t really a first civil war (unless you mean 1776, when sworn Colonial officers of King George II, with names like “Washington,” betrayed their oaths and fought their own kin) there’s another small problem with this section.

    Mike Whitney, I like your stuff a lot, and you always bring lots to the party. But no elite is going to “stop the madness” because this is their strategy.

    You weren’t in industry in the 90s but lots of us were. The Chinese “special visa” engineers had carte blanc to ream whatever they wanted out of the USA. The hollowing out of industry wasn’t an unfortunate byproduct of globalization, it was the goal.

    The war, by whatever name, will be a goal too. The elites already have their spare countries and their jets gassed up and ready. Or bunkers to wait out the first few shocks if they have to wait a bit.

    The United States, I’m afraid, was always disposable. But see how they’re ratcheting up the internal fury? A couple more years and we’ll have a race a race war. It will be totally global, since all our “dual-citizen” enrichers will bring their pals in to help scoop out the spoils.

    You have noticed most of our “migrants” are men of military age, right?

    Our military is also multicultural which means fragmented, and they’ll tear each other to shreds with the most expensive weapons in history without defending a single American.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @notanon
  55. Erebus says:
    @Ma Laoshi

    But didn’t the same Zbig opine in 2015, at the start of Russia’s Syria intervention, that the US should strike hard and fast before the Russkies managed to complete their buildup there?

    If you’re talking about ZB’s FT article, the money quote is Zbig’s statement that the Russian move into Syria may constitute…

    … evidence of a dangerous desire to highlight American political impotence.

    … and concludes…

    It is time, therefore, for strategic boldness.

    Then, just a few hours after the article was published, 26 Kalibr supersonic cruise missiles left their Caspian Sea based corvettes and hit their targets >1500km away in Syria.

    With that, the time for strategic boldness was over, and the time for strategic caution had begun. It continues to today.

  56. Erebus says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    If there’s a lot of ruin in a nation, there’s even more in an Empire.

    The way down off the ledge is a series of steps. Some smaller, some greater. Hopefully, none is too great to handle, but that depends on the moves the Empire might make in trying to salvage its position. The bolder moves entail greater risk of resulting in a step too far.

  57. Sean says:

    Liberal states win wars.

    Putin’s speech, followed by the launching of the Russian operation in Syria, was a clear warning to the foreign policy establishment that they would no longer be allowed to topple governments and destroy countries with impunity

    If I remember rightly Obama went to Congress and got a knockback over using force (a massissive airstrike that would have crushed Assad) before Russia dared send an expeditionary force. No one is queuing up to fight America, because the liberal order is strongest in war.

    • Replies: @notanon
  58. “Zbigniew Brzezinski, appears to agree on this point ”

    Hard to say really, the murderous bastard has been in the dirt for two years,

  59. American raw military power. I like it. It looks like it is well done by now.

  60. @bro3886

    The only way for part of USA to survive like civilized society is to break up along racial ethnic lines with whites moving with whites and pushing the rest to other parts.

    • Replies: @Anon
  61. “But the weakening of the liberal world order is due, more than anything else, to the changed attitude of the U.S. Under President Donald Trump, the US decided against joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership and to withdraw from the Paris climate agreement. ”

    This is a tad misleading. The claim that the current president is to fault is to claim that he acted on his own stead to be seated as president. That would be incorrect. While he would like to take credit for being elected to the agenda he advertised, he actually filled a space espoused by most citizens. He foot the bill of perspectives of the country, not the other way around. In other words, he came along when the time was right and ripe. He was not a primary force in the shift. He is but a beneficiary of the same.

    The president of the US does have a duty to act responsibly. And certainly concern over international affairs requires consideration. However, the president of the US primary concern must be to the US and that means to the will of the population. The US public is not insensitive to the demands of the international community. Far from it. Nor is the demand for more attention at home a demand to ignore the international community and how the world order plays out.

    Now let’s examine some examples of forces in play before the current president was elected.

    1. the international community heading the world order referenced in the article did not support the US invasion of Iraq

    2. has been knee deep in the failures of restructuring Afghanistan

    3. knee deep in destabilizing Libya

    4. has not managed to quell the Yemen conflict

    5. engaged in regime change attempts in Syria

    6. and the tensions in Eastern Europe are the result of direct meddling by the EU, the US and NATO along the Eastern Front, i.e. the Ukrainian revolution had nothing to do with president Trump.

    7. And while don’t hear much about it in the western media. Yesterday’s attacks in Sri Lanka are really about issues that have been brewing in Asian states since the 1950’s . It just that the western media outlets rarely reports about the potential and actual conflicts in Asia.

    While President Trump is a convenient scapegoat for all things international, it is a false accusation.

    • Replies: @Herald
  62. Alden says:
    @anon

    I think you’re absolutely right about our affirmative action military. Remember the recent navy fiasco? Yet the military is absolutely committed to diversity. Like most government jobs, it’s day care for blacks and women.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  63. Alden says:
    @anon

    EU citizens seem perfectly happy with affirmative action discrimination against themselves. Check the stats on never married motherhood in N. Europe, especially Sweden and Germany. It’s very high. The west Europeans are no more interested in preserving traditional families than American liberals are. I don’t know the situation in E Europe.

    Although I’m a strong western civilization European chauvinist, at this point I really don’t care what happens to America or Western Europe. Affirmative action black on White crime in America black and Muslim on White crime in Europe vicious anti White rhetoric coming from government academia entertainment media and even primary education

    I’d enjoy a rousing defeat by our affirmative action military.. Frankly, I don’t give damm about America domestically or internationally.

    The FBI just arrested some Americans who confronted some illegal aliens. Just confronted and questioned for a short time. No violence no battery. If a crime was committed it would be some kind of assault without injury, a state crime. But the FBI intervened in this very minor may be a state crime and arrested the Americans. 2 years intensive investigation of an elected president on behalf of the democrat loser. The FBI came up with nothing implicating the president, his staff or family in whatever it was. The FBI, the federal police did its best to get rid of the elected president.

    What is the difference between the FBI and some primitive warlords killing the head of state? Or the assassins who deposed 4 presidents by murdering them? Only the method differed. And I won’t be at all surprised if some doped up loser manages to murder Trump, especially if he wins another term.

    America hates Whites. Why should we care what happens to America and it’s anti White government?

    • Replies: @Germanicus
  64. Marcali says:

    Liberal world order from the end of World War 2?
    There was no such thing. The Free World was reeling from the advances of the communist terror regimes.

  65. Che Guava says:
    @anon

    I have four simple questions for you, anon[275]. You probably will not want to answer the first two, an answer to the third and fourth would be of interest to many here.

    1 Under what user name did you sign up?

    2 Have you ever made a post with that user name?

    3 If not, why not?

    4 Your latest post is not very extreme, in fact, seems sensible, so why the need to post as anon[275]?

    I am sincerely curious.

  66. M says:

    Wow, the financial (((caste))) are really salty that not everyone wants to live in a culturally sterile world of neoliberal materialism run by indulgent godless faggots dressed up in silly penguine suits. Yeah, I much prefer a sectarian world of rag headed fanatics with dirty AKs, RPGs, “Nazis”, Russian “hackers”, gun nuts, nationalism, customs and traditions.
    It’s a more authentic world full of people actually committed to things–and committment is life. Not a bland world of boring blank NPCs sipping on soy lattes, and where talking about your pointless consumption habits counterfeits as a social life. No thanks faggots. I am so happy to see these neoliberal plans fail.
    I came of age in 2004, and in that last year of high school globalization was the rave. For that brief moment it seemed inevitable as America bombed the fuck out of Fallujah, Zogbot patriotardism was in full swing, and the IMF was jewing Latin America real hard. I remember it well. It was a very boring world full of conformity and gas lighting. This was before youtube and red-pill culture. Few people were red-pilled on anything. If CNN, George W or Tony Blaire said that Saddam was personally supplying Osama with briefcase nukes, then you were a fucking pariah if you questioned it. Thank fucking God that’s all the past! These liberal faggot boomers just can’t withstand the sardonically cruel and devastating bullying of 4chan meme culture. “Oy vey! Shut it down!”
    I am glad to see the US absolutely fail in the Middle East. I am glad to see a Russian resurgence, a stronger East Asia, a more defiant South America, and an increasingly nationalist Europe. These things make the world beautiful. No one wants to live in a sterile libertardian world dedicated to consumption, faggots, feminists, trans freaks, McDonalds, twinkies, the IMF and penguine suit (((oligarchs)))
    Fuck that shit.

    • Replies: @ricpic
  67. Che Guava says:

    I have four simple questions for you, anon[275]. You probably will not want to answer the first two, an answer to the third and fourth would be of interest to many here.

    1 Under what user name did you sign up?

    2 Have you ever made a post with that user name?

    3 If not, why not?

    4 Your latest post is not very extreme, in fact, seems sensible, so why the need to post as anon[275]?

    I am sincerely curious. If I were a mod here (I am not and don’t want to be, but have experience elsewhere), I would ban anybody who is making an account and then *only* posting as ‘anon’.

  68. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @a.z

    Persians are White. They aren’t darker than Europeans either.

  69. @neutral

    That was not Britain’s decision to make.

  70. anon[393] • Disclaimer says:

    cut to the chase globalization was born of a scheme to end wars through commerce there may have been commies with their own agenda playing along they may or may not be in control now but back them the idea was to undermine communism and solve the world wars problems obviously was not thought through commie china has been given our entire tech industrial might and is still commie chine we also did the same for the soviets and the jews got it all.
    we still have the problem of wars and while white men are getting fucked by globalism they have always been fucked by national wars as well
    white ethno states allied as white pan nationalism against non whites is the way to go no not pan nazism just pretty much west civ again without the cuck christianity and cuck enlightenment means non whites rule us. just white nations referencing each other in recognition we are targeted as a block and others tend to organize this way to. We could still triangulate others within the context of maintaining our own interest maybe the japanese or koreans can be exceptions and put a thorn in china but our nations first our race second everyone else enemies or arms length allies

  71. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    What would we do with the liberal Whites? If we brought them with us they’d do what they did to the suburbs and conservative areas Oregon and Washington state used to be very conservative. California was conservative and solid republican except for San Francisco and Berkeley.

    And then liberal Whites destroyed everything. Do we want them in the White provinces? Absolutely not. Neither do we want to live in some sort of strict Mormon or Amish culture either. At least I don’t. I like coffee and chocolate hate beards and if there were a state church I’d prefer it didn’t use either the Bible or Book of Mormon

    • Replies: @notanon
  72. @Alden

    As I’ve said elsewhere, we should replace the term “military service” which has always rankled with me, we should use the accurate term: “Military Welfare”.

    • Agree: Wally
  73. Anon[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @neutral

    You’re right. Affirmative action and 50 years of vicious propaganda has turned Whites into despised untouchables.

    We’ll be either sleeping on the streets and eating out of dumpsters if we live in cities, or holed up in the smoky mountains and national forests living like the Indians did. Maybe not. The Chinese will probably cut down the forests the way they cut down Chinese forests during Mao’s backyard steel production phase

  74. Sean says:
    @obwandiyag

    His accent was surely an affection given the amount of time he spent in Canada as a youth. I suspect it fitted with the Cold Warrior line he moved to. He was an influence on Carter order to US officials to facilitate trade with China, although in retrospect letting sleeping giants lie would have been a better idea.

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2009/11/30-years-after-the-hostage-crisis.html

    President Carter’s National Security advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and his Energy Secretary [and former Defense Secretary], James R. Schlesinger, were both strongly pro-Shah, and had told him repeatedly that the U.S would fully support him. On November 4, 1978, the day many students were killed by security forces on the campus of Tehran University, Brzezinski called the Shah and told him that the U. S. would “back him to the hilt.”

    His most disastrous action was after Carter (under pressure) let the Shah into America. For someone whose father was a diplomat he showed surprisingly little understanding of the effect his meeting with members of the new Iranian government would have.

    On October 22, 1979, the Carter Administration allowed the Shah to enter the United States for medical treatment. He had cancer and needed treatment, but many countries had turned him away. But the revolutionaries in Iran saw it differently. They viewed it as the first step toward another coup, similar to the 1953 coup that had overthrown the government of Iran’s national hero, Dr. Mohammad Mosaddegh.
    On November 1, 1979, Bazargan, his Foreign Minister Dr. Yazdi, and Defense Minister [UC Berkeley-educated ] Dr. Chamran, met in Algiers, Algeria, with Zbigniew Brzeziński, President Carter’s national security advisor. .., the Algiers meeting and the Shah being admitted into the U.S. were the last straw. They decided that they needed to do something drastic to force the closure of the American Embassy in Tehran

    The Soviets were being held at arm’s length by new Iranian government when Brzeziński backed the Shah, and they continued to be.

    • Agree: Agent76
  75. Z-man says:
    @Walt

    I don’t know what ‘Zbig’ finally came around too, since he’s dead, but the rest of your post is right on.

    America needs to become friends with Russia. We can not handle the world alone, but with Russia we would have 90% of the worlds nuclear weapons and vast geopolitical influence. Americans do hot have anything against Russia. It is the NEOCON cabal that is fostering conflict . They just can not get over the fact that they tried and failed to take control of Russia. They are trying to do so to the U.S.A.

    The Intrernational Jew, the great warmonger of the modern world, hates Putin for reestablishing Christianity in Mother Russia. They must be defeated. One hopes that Trump listens to advisors of the Buchanan bent besides all those Neocoons and rabid Christian Zionists.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
  76. mike k says:

    Mike Whitney is simple and to the point as usual. All the fancy dancing comments are more or less irrelevant in light of his main points. This is where the world is – deal with it.

  77. Globalization was a smash and grab job from the get-go.

    Treasonous rats whoring themselves out to bankers and other scumbags pushed globalization, financialization and mass legal immigration and illegal immigration and multiculturalism in order to attack and destroy the European Christian ancestral core of the United States.

    The 1965 Immigration Act and Ohio Dirtbag Nixon going off the gold standard in 1971 really kicked the scheme into high gear. In 1981, the globalized central bankers, using the Federal Reserve Bank, used monetary policy to implode the asset bubbles that had formed due to the 1971 disconnect from the gold standard. 1981 marks the year that the globalized bankers started to use monetary policy to create the current year 2019 asset bubble. It will soon pop.

    The globalized central bankers used the cheap labor from mass legal immigration and illegal immigration to mask the effects of the inflation in wages that would ordinarily occur during bouts of monetary extremism.

    Tweet from 2015:

    Tweet from 2014:

  78. @Hiram of Tyre

    The same degenerate clique has controlled the world through finance for over a thousand years.

    Finally, someone gets it, although it’s been somewhat well over a thousand years.

    The Jews used their religion as a pretext … to claim special privileges throughout their history, eg, at Rome in the time of Cicero, when, as every reader of the Pro Flacco well knows, their devotion to their tribal god gave them the right to create financial crises among the goyim by suddenly contracting the supply of gold under the cover of a holy duty to export it to Jerusalem.

    -Oliver P. Revilo, America’s Decline, p47 (1983)

    Then, of course there’s the inside story of what Moses did to the Egyptians…

  79. Jews don’t have a doggone thing to do with the weak weak response of the United States military on the United States border.

    This latest incident where US troops are disarmed on the US side of the Border by Mexican troops in violation of our saw Venturi is a bridge too far clearly the Trump Administration has failed on Border enforcement.

    As I said before this is a low-level war and we’re losing. In a test of will and integrity the United States didn’t just blink she closed her eyes.

  80. Brzezinsky was a Russian agent (plant) who successfully did fool all US presidents.

    • Replies: @Wally
  81. Jason Liu says:

    I think you’re overcomplicating it. The liberal world order is crumbling because its liberal values are unsustainable. Diversity, feminism, and all that stuff you hate is the logical conclusion of freedom, equality, universal suffrage, human rights and so on.

    Why shouldn’t foreigners be free to immigrate if all people are equals? You can’t turn them away by force, that’s violating their universal human rights. People who hate you and your country? Their vote counts just as much as yours. Ideologues who want to drastically change your society? They get to organize freely and even form political parties. And you can’t shut down any of them down, they have rights and freedoms.

    Meaning that all this would’ve happened even without American imperialism or Trump. There is a reason why all of the world has been authoritarian since the dawn of history. It’s not because people love tyrants, it’s because they know deep down that liberal open societies are very vulnerable to subversion.

    • Agree: chris
    • Replies: @Alden
    , @notanon
  82. https://russia-insider.com/en/time-magazine-putins-nefarious-plot-dominate-world/ri26831
    Look at that picture.
    A real mean looking sons of a bitches.

    Concerning Brzezinsky.
    Village principle.
    You live in the village. You support your neighbors. and you support your street.
    The last thing in your mind should be to support next village.

    US should have done the same. US should not have gaven jobs and build up China and far east.
    US should have given jobs and build up America. Particularly central and South America.
    BIG MISTAKE.

    • Replies: @Anon
  83. Wally says:
    @anon

    said:
    “As Karlin has noted, I don’t see this happening in the near future, not with the insane levels of anti-Russian hate coming from the American left, some of which is just pure racial hatred of whites projected onto Russians.”

    That projection is certainly true, obviously so.

    However, it’s Karlin who pulls his punches, who censors comments which are critical of the fake “holocaust” which he religiously & absurdly believes in, as he states in his articles.

    The fake “holocaust” is the main vehicle for the destruction of the west by Zionists & their leftist shills and Anatoly Karlin plays right along like the classic useful idiot.

    http://www.codoh.com

  84. Wally says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    How did he “fool all US presidents”?

    Please elaborate.

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  85. Herald says:
    @EliteCommInc.

    You are quite right in what you say, but of course, Trump has done absolutely nothing to improve matters on the world scene and indeed has only made things worse.

    Trump has not wound down the futile and illegal occupation of Afghanistan, nor has he removed US troops from illegal occupation in Syria. He still aids the Saudis in their genocidal war against Yemen.

    His love affair with Netanyahu is as sickening, as it is craven and recognition of Jerusalem and the Golan Heights will only encourage more Israeli buccaneering, along with countless more deaths.

    Trump’s incredible decision to label the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, as a terrorist organisation, is a bid step along the road to World War III.

    I could go on, but no need to, it is abundantly clear that the Trump is a threat to everyone of us. His only saving grace, being that he is not Hillary, just about.

  86. Cyrano says:

    I think it’s time for a radical theory. Many believe that unrestricted immigration and multiculturalism are “leftist” or socialist policies. I think that they are as far right as you can get – I think that those policies where just designed to appear as if they were left wing policies by being accompanied with large dosage of propaganda. Few criterias have to be met in order for a policy to qualify as “leftist”.

    Leftist policies usually benefit the DOMESTIC working class and come at the “expense” of the wealthy elites. This is accomplished by taxing them at the higher percent than the less wealthy. Leftist policies come in the shape of improved social services, health services, education, job creation etc. So the question then is: Did the unrestricted immigration and multiculturalism improve the standards of living of the native working class?

    In the best case scenario – it did nothing to improve the plight of the indigenous working class – in the worst case scenario – it made their lives more miserable by increasing competition, putting downward pressure on wages, by making them compete with affirmative action programs to help new immigrants and so on.

    How is then a chaotic immigration from the 3rd world a “leftist” policy? The uncontrolled 3rd world immigration and multiculturalism were invented so the wealthy elites can establish their “humanist” credentials which would be required if they had any intention to do introduce any actual leftist policies. Which they don’t.

    Multiculturalism is simply another tool of oppression in the already impressive arsenal of the capitalist elites against the working class. You import enough 3rd world immigrants and you don’t have to make any other improvements on any other social issues – because you see, you have already proven what a great humanist you are.

    That’s exactly why multiculturalism was invented, to prevent implementation of any real leftist policies. Therefore multiculturalism is as far right policy as you can get. Pretty much the same idea that Nazi Germany used, when they called themselves national “Socialists”. I guess they were ashamed to admit that in reality they were national fascists which had nothing to do with socialism.

    Multiculturalism is a propaganda gimmick to cover up all the other reactionary policies that are being implemented in every other aspect, so the population will be silenced in their demand for greater social justice. How can you ask for more social justice from your elites who have already proven what a great humanists they are, by opening the flood gates to the immigration enthusiasts from the 3rd world? It has the same ring of phoniness as socialism in National socialism.

    Capitalism is a funny system, whenever it feels threatened – it fakes left, but it punches right. Unfortunately for capitalism, sometimes when it goes in a self-protective mode – that turns into self-destructive mode. Like fascism and Nazism – which were designed to save capitalism, but ended up almost destroying it, multiculturalism has the same flavor – it was designed to save capitalism by faking left, and it might end up destroying it.

    That’s what multiculturalism is really all about – the rich degenerate elites of the west pretending to be great humanists – which is easy to do, when it doesn’t cost them a cent. A real humanism would be to try to improve the living standards of the home grown working class, which they would never do – since it would involve parting ways with large sums of money. The phony “socialism” didn’t cost them a cent, which is what multiculturalism is all about, saving capitalists’ some serious buck, while appearing to be “liberal” and “leftist”. It’s all phony.

  87. Wally says:
    @a.z

    – I guess ‘the Spaniards eliminated the brownskins’ explains the hundreds of millions of brownskins we see today.

    – “Peaceful coexistence”? LOL
    Your brownskins were in perpetual states of war against each other.

    – The facts which you cant handle:

    In every instance where blacks & browns are in great numbers, and / or control the governments of cities, counties, regions, states, countries, & continents we see:
    massive murder rates
    massive crime in general
    degraded property
    massive disease, especially STDs
    massive drug & alcohol abuse
    general filth, squalor
    massive birthrates
    inability / unwillingness to support their own children
    massive youth pregnancies rates
    massive school dropout rates
    incredibly low IQs & test scores
    violence as a way of life
    fathers nowhere to be found

  88. Alden says:
    @Franz

    My last job was at a university with a major medical research center and lots of other STEM research. I was a floater clerk and tech support also did medical records and billing. I worked in the various medical research labs. Almost all the medical researchers were Chinese nationals on some sort of temp visa. They weren’t students they were in the 35 to 60 age range

    I also worked a lot in the engineering building It was built in the early 50s and a lot of Cold War research was done in that building. The building was complicated. Some elevators had 3 basement levels others didn’t. There wasn’t one elevator that went all the floors. You went up 3 floors then got out walked half a city block to the next elevator to go to upper floors 🥍There were a lot of pocket doors that slid across and cut off an entire section of the building.

    There were 2 arial walkways that connected the main building with 2 smaller buildings. The walkways has locked doors with key pads. I saw middle aged Chinese men who I knew spoke little English hitting the key pads and using the walkways into those 2 buildings

    Those Chinese men weren’t teachers administrators janitors librarians or clerks. They just disappeared into the locked sections of the building. The building was underused. All those empty corridors with few doors and the doors always shut Most of the doors weren’t numbered either.

    Maybe it was just 1950s Frank Lloyd Wright hidden entrance architecture or 1950s “creative, innovative” architecture, like some post 1940 K-12 schools with the office hidden away in the back after a couple left and right turns in the hall.

    Whatever those Chinese men did, they did it with full cooperation of the university and whatever government agencies used all those rooms and the separate buildings

    • Replies: @Franz
  89. renfro says:
    @anon

    Unfortunately, this is probably not entirely feasible considering the United States’s inappropriately close relationship to Israel

    One of Israel’s strategies has always been to prevent the US from forming allies. Read The Israel Lobby in which you can find dozens of examples of Israel throwing monkey wrenches in US efforts to establish relations with other states, particularly in the ME but also Europe.

    Israel wants to be the only ally/influence on the US…..and that is basically what has happened.

    • Agree: Rurik
  90. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3769461-liberalism-is-a-sin

    The spanish priest Sarda i Salvany wrote a book in 1884 titled : ” Liberalism is a sin” ( it is translated to english )

    I read an anecdote , I don`t know whether is true or not , which says that a french president went to visit his chinese counterpart in an official visit . The french president did talk about how great the french revolution was , and at the end of his speech he asked the chinese president : don`t you think the french revolution was magnificent ? , and the chinese president answered , well , I don`t know , it just happened only a couple of centuries ago , it is too soon to tell which will be the real results of the french revolution , time will tell …….

  91. Rurik says:

    US ability to shape events or to successfully pursue its own strategic objectives

    It’s own strategic objectives? Or Israel’s strategic objectives?

    In what ways do the Eternal Wars benefit the US?

    We get trillions in debt, killed or maimed soldiers, (or so spiritually and psychologically eviscerated by waging immoral wars, that they simply kill themselves).

    We get the well-earned and deserved hatred of the world, as we stomp all over the globe looking for Israel’s enemies to crush.

    Does anyone believe the ZUS is destabilizing Venezuela to benefit the American people?

    Or sending weapons to Ukraine to benefit the American people?

    Or that any of these Eternal Wars and occupations are being done to benefit the American people?

    Of course not. Just the opposite in fact.

    As Washington’s grip on global affairs continues to loosen and more countries reject the western development model…

    Washington’s grip on global affairs? Or Israel’s grip?

    On whose behalf are all the wars being waged? Eh?

    Even the war on Yemen is being waged to mollify Saudi Arabia, and Washington only assists because Saudi Arabia is seen as a bulwark against Iran, which serves Israel’s interest, and so Washington slavishly goes along. Never with the interests of the American people at heart, unless it is to specifically to do the American people harm.

    Western elites, who are unable to accept this new dynamic, continue to issue frenzied statements expressing their fear of a future in which the United States no longer dictates global policy.

    “Western” elites, eh?

    Who does Macron serve, as he destroys the French middle class?

    Who does Merkel serve? (duh) Who does Theresa May serve, as she defies the will of the British people on behalf of the (((EU / ECB)))?

    the rise of anti-immigrant right-wing groups that have sprung up across Europe

    this is how you use rhetorical flourish to turn besieged working class people into = Nazis, hell-bent on ‘white supremacism’.

    Without actually using the pejorative ‘white supremacists’.

    Why not just call them what they are.. anti-globalist populists ?

    But calling them populists doesn’t have that menacing intonation of ‘Sieg Heil!-ing, jack-booted thugs beating up gays and Negros on sight, like “the rise of anti-immigrant right-wing groups” has.

    The president of the prestigious Council on Foreign Relations,

    “Prestigious”?

    Were you being sarcastic?

    As a writer, I’m sure you’re acquainted with adjectives like ‘notorious’, no?

    Trump’s presidential triumph was a clear rejection of the thoroughly-rigged elitist system that continues to transfer the bulk of the nation’s wealth to tiniest layer of people at the top.

    yes, but it was also a rejection of the Eternal Wars (for Israel), and of the Jewish supremacist agenda of replacing the White people of the West. Which is the same thing driving Brexit and the Yellow Vest protests.

    All a rejection of the Globohomo coming out of (((Tel Aviv / London / Paris / NYC))), and, yes (((AIPAC/Washington, DC)))

    What Russian President Vladimir Putin objects to, is Washington’s unilateralism, the cavalier breaking of international law to pursue its own imperial ambitions.

    Yes, and when it comes to a head, Putin sits down with Bibi to hash out their differences.

    Does anyone notice that when Bibi goes to Moscow to speak with Putin, that there’s no shrieking about treason!! But that rather one head of state simply goes to speak to another head of state regarding dire geopolitical realpolitik. No buffers are needed because everyone understands that these two men are the respective heads of their respective spheres of influence. Putin over Russia and Bibi over the Zio-occupied West.

    Contrast that with president Trump’s attempts to speak directly to Putin, and all hell breaks loose from the (((deepstate))), ‘How dare Trump commit treason by speaking to Putin without a ((handler))!!’

    Here Putin openly challenges the concept of a ‘liberal world order’ which in fact is a sobriquet used to conceal Washington’s relentless plundering of the planet. There’s nothing liberal about toppling regimes and plunging millions of people into anarchy, poverty and desperation.

    who does it benefit to destroy Iraq?

    who does it benefit to destroy Libya and Syria and Iran? Eh?

    Is the ZUSA destroying these countries to loot their resources, or to send them all reeling into the stone age, so that they are no longer any possible inconvenience to Israel’s agenda of hegemonic ascendancy and ultimate total dominance of the region and beyond?

    Did we destroy Iraq to benefit some amorphous “Washington elites” somewhere?

    Or to benefit Israel?

    Are we in the process of starving Yemen on behalf of Saudi Arabia.. in order to benefit some amorphous “Washington elites” somewhere? Or is it all to benefit Israel, because by helping Saudi Arabia, we’re also helping Israel, by helping yet another enemy of Iran?

    This is the kind of realpolitik, geopolitical analysis we should be getting from professional journalists, not rehashed bs about “Washington elites”, as if we’re waging these wars to benefit some sneaky Anglos hiding out in Martha’s Vineyard, plotting the next coup in Ukraine to steal their borscht.

    No. The unilateral menace that Whitney correctly points out Putin and the rest of the world, (including Rurik ; ), are alarmed about, isn’t the work of gangly Anglos in New England plotting global conquest, but rather Jewish supremacist Zionists, in control of the world’s central banks, and the controlled media of the West, demanding complete and dogged fealty to all things Zion.

    How well does it serve those gangly Anglos in New Hampshire to declare the Golan Heights are sovereign Israeli territory, eh?

    How well does it serve the global Anglos of the world to tell their fellow ethnics in South Africa that they deserve the black wrath that’s coming to them?

    In any sober analysis of the unilateral power in the world today, only a fool would pretend it’s being lead by Anglos holed up in Washington, DC, and waging wars of conquest to steal brown people’s resources.

    Rather, the unilateral power in the world today is Zionism. (Duh!) And none are more slavishly, snivilingly servile to the zio-fiend than the whores (like Trump and our congress) in Washington, DC, betraying the Constitution, their oaths, their country, and every American citizen in the process.

    So, as America rots on the vine, and Europa is under siege, and wars are raining down all over the Glob, one nation is conspicuously ascendant and triumphal.

    It is conspicuously the one nation Mike Whitney never mentions.

    Tragically, there is no base of support for these ideas on Capital Hill, the White House or among the U.S. foreign policy establishment. The entire political class and their allies in the media unanimously support a policy of belligerence, confrontation and war.

    you forgot the ((()))s

    Confrontation will only accelerate the pace of US decline …

    well then…?!

    and the final collapse of the liberal world order

    You make that sound like a bad thing.

    • Replies: @chris
  92. @Cyrano

    There is more important factor. Low birthrate in white countries is deadly frightening for elites,
    Imagine that demands on goods houses land and whatsoever declines due to lesser demands volume.
    Demand decreases prices go down, equals a real catastrophe for elites.

    • Replies: @Alden
  93. Agent76 says:

    Trust Zbigniew Brzezinski?

    Taliban Pakistan Afghanistan pep talk 1979

    In 1979 Carters National Security Advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski went into Pakistans border regions with Afghanistan to give a little pep talk to some prospective majehadeen (Holy Warriors).

    (Jan.1998) US history – “How Jimmy Carter I Started the Mujahideen” – Zbigniew Brzezinski, National Security Advisor 1977-1981

    “Q: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs [“From the Shadows”], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a13_1240427874

  94. @Wally

    My second commend if you find it will shed a little more light on it.
    Basically in his book Brzezinsky convinced Carter and all following presidents to direct their political and economic effort on Asia. including Obama. Until Trump came and did stop this insanity.
    But considerable damage was already done.

  95. Agent76 says:

    April 03, 2019 How Brzezinski’s Chessboard Degenerated Into Brennan’s Russophobia

    “Russia is an inalienable and organic part of Greater Europe and European civilization. Our citizens think of themselves as European. That’s why Russia proposes moving towards the creation of a common economic space from the Atlantic to the Pacific Ocean, a community referred to by Russian experts as ‘the Union of Europe’ which will strengthen Russia’s potential in its economic pivot toward the ‘New Asia.’” Vladimir Putin, President of the Russian Federation, February 2012.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51384-c.htm

  96. @Bill Jones

    We have no choice but to be “We”. This is our country (assuming you are American).

    Let me guess: You eat groceries that you and your wife buy at the supermarket. You drink Starbucks and pay your rent or mortgage once a month. You drive your car to work.

    You are blind to all the things that do and must work properly every single day here for you to live, to type your stupid little comments here.

    Our country is indeed ours, even though we do not control it. Do you propose to fly to Mars and start your own country?

  97. @Republic

    The British Empire was already dead by then. It died a generation before–in the hell holes of France and Belgium. The Atlantic Charter may have served only as the death certificate.

  98. SafeNow says:

    I agree with the commenters who note the significance of the replacement population being less capable. Milton Friedman was once visiting Sweden, when a Swedish economist boasted “We have no poverty here.” Friedman supposedly replied, “We have no poverty either, among Americans of Swedish descent.”

  99. Beckow says:

    Conversion on death bed are tricky. Brzezinski lived his whole life as a fanatical and bitter Polish emigre who did his utmost to create a military confrontation between US and Russia. By the time he got old, it was obvious that the strategy didn’t work – we have two heavily armed European powers threatening each other with annihilation, while Asians, Africans, Middle Easterners and mestizos are busily taking over the West demographically. Russia after endless attempts to be accepted by the West finally gave up – the hostility was just overwhelming. Today Russia is allied with China, another brilliant result of Zbig’s geo-politics.

    Brzezinski invented and developed Islamic fanaticism in Afghanistan. He promoted it endlessly for decades: arming and protecting, pushing it against European Christian nations. It has been a disaster. There is no way back, there is no way to undo the strategically stupid policies. Nobody in the West is held accountable anyway.

    Brzezinski late life conversion = or regrets – are of little interest. His role has been as the godfather of militant Islam and as a promoter of West-Russia rift. Why does what he said after all of that matter? Maybe he was just sorry that it didn’t work and tried to cover-his-behind.

  100. gsjackson says:
    @Bill

    Agreed — long since a done deal. Walt, meet ZUSA, who doesn’t even bother to try to hide her fangs anymore.

  101. bluedog says:
    @anon

    You still don’t get it do you,the old political bullshit of which party you worship the left or the right, but the truth that you hate to admit to is that the left and right occupy the same coin,sleep in the same bed,feed at the same table,belong to the same secret socities and feeds both of the parties when the phony elections roll around so the suckers can be fooled again.!!1

  102. MarkinLA says:
    @Cyrano

    What makes something right or left is not some silly definition somebody produces. It is the people pushing it. While you can say unrestricted immigration is a right wing policy because a very tiny percentage of very rich people support it, it is supported by a far larger number of flaming leftist nut jobs.

    The average person on the right does not support it. When did those lefties really support social justice? That was just a different ruse to justify them replacing the previous rulers with themselves. They were more than happy to put you in a prison if you didn’t see the wisdom in their leadership – even more so than some right winger.

    This is like libertarians crying that business owners should have the “freedom” to hire anybody they want at any wage regardless of where they came from. Who gets to decide what the definition of freedom is?

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  103. Anon[424] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    The protestant english identity is anticatholic , antiroman , ( and antiorthodox too ) .

    The american wasp identity is similar , thus antispanish , antiroman , antilatinamerican .

    I believe you are right saying that US should have helped the development of Latinamerica , instead of considering her a ” backyard ” , but this deep anticatholic identity will always prevent the english and wasp establishment to stablish a positive collaborative relation with Latinamerica .

    • Replies: @Ilyana_Rozumova
  104. Alden says:
    @Jason Liu

    Hi, Jason, nice to hear from you.

  105. Cyrano says:
    @MarkinLA

    People can be persuaded to support something by using heavy propaganda. Why do you think that the fools in Hollywood are all “democrats”? Some real progressive liberals they are.

    It doesn’t matter who supports mass immigration and multiculturalism. It matters who invented it and for what purpose.

    How can a policy be considered “left” wing if it benefits only the rich? It’s ridiculous. There is nothing left wing about immigration and multiculturalism. There is no left wing in US.

    Multiculturalism is bi-partisan deep-state policy designed to fool everyone into believing that US is capable of implementing left-wing policies. Again, a policy can’t be left wing if it benefits only the rich. It’s as simple as that.

    And in the long run, multiculturalism will not benefit even the rich. That’s the real true sign of the degeneracy – that they are not able to see that. In the end it will destroy them too.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @notanon
  106. ricpic says:
    @M

    Haven’t the foggiest what all that was about but you’ve got verve!

  107. anonymous[472] • Disclaimer says:
    @notanon

    all our descendants

    Rofl!!

    The problem is it appears that the global north is inhabited by a bunch of impotent lowlifes. Now, what are you going to do about that, impotent scum?

    https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/10/sperm-counts-continue-to-fall/572794/

    The north’s real “advantage” happens to be limitless psychopathy. You degenerate mofers could do what you could, because you plundered wealth from everywhere, and continue to do so.

    To your kind belongs Hell, and a most appropriate place it will be for your cursed kind.

  108. Alden says:
    @Cyrano

    You’re right I’ve always known high immigration and affirmative action for them was a capitalist pig plot So was feminism. Feminism 2, actually with the 60 hour work week no over time for “professionals and managers” 2 2/2 or 3 workers for the same income the husband made alone.

    Affirmative action for immigrants is no different from 19th century capitalist pigs sending scouts to every poverty stricken part of Europe and recruiting them with promises of good jobs at living wages. I’m skeptical of the labor union lefty tales of abject poverty among full time workers. Just accept half those tales are true. It’s still pretty bad.

    Finally, 1925 either the labor unions got strong enough to force through the anti immigration laws or the capitalist pigs got really scared by the CPUSA and what was going on in Russia.

    Anyway limited immigration for just 40 years. The only reason we had prosperity 1940 was war production men in the army, few children born in the 1930s depression and war, and our main source of immigration cut off by the Soviets in the east and socialism in the west.

    1965 their oldest baby boomers were 19 ready for the work force with millions coming up in the next 15 years. Many of their greatest generation parents were 45 to 55, still in the work force. There was no labor shortage at all, there was full was a huge number of baby boomers growing up.

    That’s why the government came up with student loans, to delay for a few years the entrance of millions of baby boomers into a job market that could not absorb them.

    College had the benefit of teaching boomers social justice for blacks and despising their parents. The hippy movement was a government capitalist pig propaganda move to distract the boomers from economics. Nixon created the Hispanic race . Shortly after the courts declared Hispanics and Asians also eligible for affirmative action and it was all over for Whites.

    The STEM men were OK longer. It took a while to replace them. But soon they were replaced by non White immigrants.

    Many lefties used to rant about the evil Whites who caused the destruction of the cities by fleeing Democrat liberal black violence and let’s be honest, a black reign of terror.

    An alternative theory was that the black reign of terror was very very beneficial to the construction industry that built the suburbs.

    Just my opinions.

  109. @bro3886

    I think if America heads the way of black rule… which it pretty much is now..and the nation becomes a war zone…. Russian will step in. They will not want the nukes of America in a negro power based govvy. You dont think they see whats happening in the cities that have fallen to ruin under black rule. They are laffing and licking their lips for the spoils of war.
    The russians will create a gulag in Alaska just for such an event. There will be no sympathy for the Liberal losers , the coddlers.. and all the alphabet groups. They will be tarred with the same huge broom as the blacks. All we have to do is survive until then.

    • Replies: @ben sampson
  110. @Anon

    Yes! Its all true all that! But we are all Christians. We all believe in our lord and savior to be Jesus Christ. Danger is on horizon. It is time to unite.!!!!!!!!!

  111. Alden says:
    @Ilyana_Rozumova

    I don’t want to start a fight but it’s my opinion that elites rejoice at the low White birth rate because they can replace us with non White docile slaves begging for jobs or welfare.

    Reliable birth control has a major effect on the birth rate. Affirmative action discrimination against White men has another major effect on the birth rate

    Whose going to raise the children of low wage under or sporadically employed 25 to 40 year old Whites? The aging grandparents on retirement income? Welfare? In many cities the percentage of White children in the public schools is less than 10 percent.

    Think about what kind of life White babies born in 2020 will have at age 45 after 100 years of vicious affirmative action discrimination and anti White genocidal propaganda. They’ll be despised untouchables

    If the elites wanted a high native Whitr birth rate they’d do what the did in the 1940s.
    Severe restriction of immigration

    Massive building of cheap attractive functional 3&4 bedroom 1,800 to 2,220 sq ft houses

    A couple years of pro marriage pro stay at home wife propaganda aimed at women. It only took about 2 years and massive inflation to stampede married women into the workforce.

    Due to Chinese Crap on Credit Cards clothes furniture toys sports equipment electronics are much cheaper that 50 years ago when they were made in America.

    But necessities of life like housing utilities transportation taxes medical care the inelastic items we have to pay for are a gazillion times more expensive than they were 50 years ago. Vastly lower the price of necessities we can’t do without. We only buy furniture once. We commute every day and pay utility bills every month

    What use are cheap pretty bedspreads and dishes when the winter utility bill is $700 a month, gas is $4. a gallon sales tax is 9 % and it takes almost all of one parent’s income and half of the others to pay the mortgage utilities and property taxes ?

    Why would a White man have a child when he knows he’s last hired, first fired and never promoted?

    What White man or woman wants to have a child when they can’t afford a modest studio apartment?

    I don’t know how far affirmative action discrimination has gone in Europe. All I know is what it’s done to American Whites.

    It’s all very well to talk about how OTHER Whites should have lots of children. No reason why a normal White woman can’t have 5 or 6 children between 20 and 40. Find a man to support it all if you’re a woman. Find a women to bear and raise the kids and take care of the home if you’re a man.

    If you or your wife is too old to have children make a deal with your children that you’ll support the grand children. Use your network money and influence to set your adult children up in a secure business so they can have 5 or 6 kids.

    Or buy each of your children rental property for cash, no mortgages At least 20 apartment units. Studios and small 1 bedrooms are the best. What with unlimited immigration they’ll never have a vacancy

    With sufficient money raising 6 children is easy. Go for it.

    What gives feminazis the right to tell other women to have abortions not have babies till they’re 45 with artificial means or not have children at all because the life of a cubicle coolie is so wonderful and empowering

    What gives White Nationalists and conservatives the right to tell other Whites they should have lots of children?

  112. @China girl

    this comment does not take capitalism into consideration and how it impacts and drives the liberal confrontation policy. being friendly with Russia and China solves no capitalist problem. the problem everywhere is the relationship between those who work and the owners of the means of production..made extreme by technological advance

    Marxism is right as far as I know on this score. capitalism cannot solve that problem -its problem in any way satisfactory to the working classes. in industrial change and introducing technological advances that reduces the costs of production capitalism can solve the worker problem in the work place by letting workers go. what is to happen when joblessness begins to affect economies adversely?

    we have a major evolutionary problem with capitalism that is hardly unexpected. that is what all the work by Orwell, Huxley and others who predicted an enslaved, surveilled and engineered humanity made obedient, compliant to the capitalist by biological intervention was/is all about.

    all those countries are faced with social challenges that will result in Brave New World or social democracies..the two organization options that seem available at this point. Russia, China, the West are all capitalist and are best by cultural evolutionary problems. if these elites come together can it be in the best interest of working people the world over?

    and if the Western elites saw such cooperation in their interest. they are not seeking such cooperation because they do not see it in their interest. or is there a schism in the western elites..in which the Goy elites may not be averse in joining the east byt the Khazars are not. the Khazars may have a plan that is altogether different with the goal of their lone domination as key. maybe they see this achievable in a fight between east and west that weakens both allowing the Khazar to achieve their goal of Khazar world domination

    my impression is that it is not so much that western liberal domination is over..it is that Capitalism, all and any system of systematic economic exploitation of the ordinary people of the world is over.. and the struggle is between elites and ordinary folk as to who and how will society be organized as we go.

    the only way in which elitist social control can be maintained is to enslave all the ordinary people of the whole plane. elitist exploitation meets no human existential needs, our collective need to continue to win survival in nature indefinitely, indeed to come to guarantee human existence. that must be the purpose of existence..the survival of humanity..not making profits for its concentration by a minority. that is a poor focus of human activity and labour. and as we can see all the intractable problems that leads to..like currently huge, massive pent up need, enslaved behind huge capitalist concentrated profits need and capacity that cannot be unleashed due to the results of that very concentration of wealth in a few hands..the way exploitative systems work

    there are all manner of extreme problems that humanity face at this point, caused by systems of exploitation that are growing out of hand. but systematic exploitation cannot address these problems successfully..cannot address them at all. only systematic popular democracy can by putting the needs of society first while eliminating the capitalist/capitalism and th need for massive minority profits

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  113. notanon says:
    @Hiram of Tyre

    If the Soviet Union was ever a threat or enemy, why did the USA transfer so much (ballistic, etc) technology to it during the Cold War?

    the USA didn’t – the banking mafia did.

  114. I will not contest his failure to reduce tensions in regions where the US has been militarily involved. That is a disappointment. One of several.

    But he has not actually engaged in more and that matters. And he made his doubts known about Iran before he was elected. Though I seriously doubt that war will ensue regardless of the Iranian guard classification. Again it is possible, but unlikely.

    The Europeans are not on board. I indicated years ago that once the deal was reached, unless there was a breach of the agreement, the EU would not support sanctions and they won’t. I am not a fan of Iran. But they are not a threat to the US and our actions against Iraq only made matters worse. There’s no turning back that clock.

    This president is more openly supportive of Israel and while I agree it is over the top – way over the top given what Israel reciprocates. However, no US president has been able to create a more realistic relationship with Israel. I think the annexation is in violation of international law — no one seems willing to enforce the jurisdictional. And I have been hearing tales of WWIII before the president was elected. It has yet to materialize, not even close. Again anything can happen, however, it remains unlikely. Iran is not disabled Iraq.

    In response to the article, my position remains clear and unmoved. All of the issues of complaint were in play before this president got elected. And in about each, this president is the holder, not the initiator (cause). Those cards were played before he arrived. And there is this to consider. Aside from Yemen, the US has created situations in which vulnerable populations have come to rely. And even I am hesitate to engage in an immediate withdrawal knowing the reprisals to come. And I opposed the war in Afghanistan for strategic, need and ethical reasons. Simply overkill to the real mission —

    But even I acknowledge the damage that a simple and immediate withdrawal would yield.

    ———————————————-

    A threat to us all — hardly. More hype than reality. And I have parted ways on several issues, much to my own detriment.

  115. notanon says:
    @a.z

    seriously man no race is inherently superior.

    i don’t think they’re inherently superior. i think due to different ancestral histories some races / nations / ethnic groups *currently* score higher on certain metrics which are too critical to ignore.

    if it was up to me the global north would build a big wall and then broadcast cultural imperialism over the top of it detailing how to
    – raise average IQ
    – lower average time preference
    – lower interpersonal violence
    etc

    i imagine it’s thought of as racist now but in development circles they always used to talk about “getting to Denmark” – i know people don’t like it but genetics is the only way to “get to Denmark.”

  116. This incident at the US border is going to be played down as diplomacy. But i am 100% positive that there’s a tinge of discomfort stirring among our armed forces. Being sent to kill foreigners abroad while being told to put their tail between their legs threatened at home . . .

    This is not a healthy sign and fosters no confidence in what lies ahead for aggressive leadership leading to war.

  117. notanon says:
    @Franz

    But no elite is going to “stop the madness” because this is their strategy.

    probably true but i think there’s at least the possibility that “the elite” is actually two:

    1) US imperialist masquerading as globalist
    2) banking mafia.

    yes the banking mafia have looted America and are deliberately setting it up for civil war when they leave for China but it seems to me there ought to be a few people on the US imperialist side, especially in the military, who simply didn’t think much about the economic side of things, assumed the banking mafia’s neoliberal economics was in their interests and didn’t realize the banking mafia were betraying them all along.

    so i think it’s *just* possible there is some way to stop it (but not optimistic).

    • Replies: @Franz
  118. notanon says:
    @Sean

    Liberal states win wars.

    i agree but we’re not actually liberal.

    the power of liberal states was founded on prioritizing *truth*, science and reason.

    since WW1 we’ve turned into a cultural marxist banking empire larping as liberal.

    that’s why it’s all crumbling.

  119. chris says:
    @Rurik

    Wow, Rurik ! That’s a very good critique; thanks !

    I was going to leave it at that, but I don’t think this one analysis of yours is correct:

    Even the war on Yemen is being waged to mollify Saudi Arabia, …

    If you think we’re easy to fool, the Saudis are like play-doe, in Israeli hands. I don’t think we’re destroying Yemen for any Saudi interest, but for some absurd idea placed in their heads by our common masters. Our masters want us to control all of the strategic choke points around the Arabian peninsula, and the Saudis are just mouthing their puppeteers, just so as not to give away the whole game.

    • Replies: @chris
  120. notanon says:
    @Anon

    What would we do with the liberal Whites?

    they’re destroying everything because they believe the blank slate and they trust the media.

    so simple polygraph citizenship test
    1) do you believe genetics are the foundation of human behavior?
    2) do you trust the media?

    anyone who doesn’t pass gets deported to Somalia.

  121. chris says:
    @chris

    The reason I think this is not just the fact that Yemen completes a very strategic part of the puzzle (see map of the region), but the fact that the very well lubricated US and Western Europe political war machine is not going to be lent out by Israel to the Saudis for a joy-ride in Yemen if it doesn’t serve the direct strategic interest of the whole enchilada.

    I have to assume that the strategists in Israel don’t want to overuse their machine on just any old feud, lest it lose some of its efficiency. They needn’t worry, at the current rate of response, the west will be bidding up the price of nooses to hang themselves with.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  122. notanon says:
    @Jason Liu

    Diversity, feminism, and all that stuff you hate is the logical conclusion of freedom, equality, universal suffrage, human rights and so on.

    the driving force is not equality but fairness

    fairness in the context of belief in the blank slate = equality

    fairness in the context of belief in genetics != equality

  123. Art says:

    Iraq finds its gonads – invites Iran and Saudi and neighbors to a meeting – while Trump promotes war against Iran.

    Mideast States Join Iraq Summit in Blow to US-Led ‘Arab NATO’ Initiative

    The summit marks a shift in Iraq’s foreign policy, with the country assuming the role of a mediator in the region as US President Donald Trump has revived the Obama-era concept of an anti-Iranian alliance of Gulf nations.

    Iraq is hosting a one-day summit, which brings together the country’s neighbours: Syria, Turkey, Jordan, and Kuwait, as well as two long-time rivals – Saudi Arabia and Iran – in a blow to the US-led “Arab NATO” initiative, Press TV reported.

    “This is a positive message to all neighbouring countries and the world that Iraq is determined to regain its health and return to its Arab, regional environment and assume its rightful place in the map of the balance of power”, Bashir Haddad, deputy parliamentary speaker said.

    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201904201074310449-mideast-states-iraq-summit-arab-nato/

    Trump’s prime minister – Netanyahu – demands war with Iran.

    Think Peace — Art

  124. MarkinLA says:
    @Cyrano

    How can a policy be considered “left” wing if it benefits only the rich? It’s ridiculous.

    Did I miss something or do those “immigrants” only vote for right wing policies?

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  125. @Zbig

    Big Zbig was the founding father of Al Qaeda and therefore of all contemporary terrorism.

    Zbig doctrine: Finance a group of fanatic losers and launch them against those you do not like.

    I suspect Osama bin Ladin was the illegitimate son of Big Zbig and Jeanne Kirkpatrick.

    • LOL: Ilyana_Rozumova
    • Replies: @notanon
  126. notanon says:
    @Cyrano

    How can a policy be considered “left” wing if it benefits only the rich?

    the cultural Left support mass immigration partly for direct cultural reasons and partly because it means they can leverage the extra votes for other Left policies.

    the policy is an alliance of cultural Left and economic Right hence the uniparty which rules most western countries.

    (of course in the long run both will lose: the new majority will eventually get rid of all the feminist/gay stuff and turn on the remaining white-ish elite)

    • Agree: SafeNow
    • Replies: @Cyrano
  127. notanon says:
    @Thales the Milesian

    obviously US Afghanistan policy didn’t help but

    satellite TV beaming “Will & Grace” into places that weren’t ready for it was a big part of the Islamist reaction.

  128. ‘Murika has created a FrankenMoron.
    We have a population that has gotten dumber every year, loaded with nuclear weapons.
    Matches in childrens’ hands in a gasoline-filled pool can have only one result.
    Low IQ means DQ.

  129. @Sam J.

    The left/right paradigm died along time ago, and most, including Mike Whitney, refuse to acknowledge it. Continual references to “anti-immigrant right-wing groups” misses the point entirely. Anti-immigration is not anti-immigrant. I have been opposed to the insane immigration policies for over 40 years. Throughout my work life I dealt with hundreds of immigrants. Most of them were nice people, but that is not the point. Their presence was/is completely unnecessary. The real “left” – old trade unionists – were always anti-immigration. They understood perfectly well that immigration was the reserve army of capital to attack living wages, increase housing costs and lower standards of living. Cesar Chavez’s United Farm Workers had patrols hunting down illegal immigrants.

    The Jews have always been globalists. Globalism is the creation of the international banking cartel. It is these globalists that are the new “left”. The old left refers to them as white wine socialists. Most of them have never done an honest day’s work, and wouldn’t know which end of a shovel to use. Nationalism is the antithesis and natural enemy of globalism. Nationalism covers the political spectrum, and being opposed to unnecessary immigration, just as the old/real left was, is part of that spectrum. It’s not “right wing” at all.

    • Replies: @Iris
  130. Joe Wong says:
    @China girl

    China girl, you aren’t really talking the much hyped rise of China but more on the ideological blindness of the American intelligentsia:

    Most American intellectuals continue to indulge in wishful thinking. In their minds, there is a deep ideological conviction that democracy represents the future and Communism represents the past. Since China is still run by the Chinese Communist Party, it can only represent the past, not the future. Many American intellectuals also believe that since they live in the world’s freest society, they cannot possibly be prisoners of any ideology. This is massive self-deception. When it comes to understanding China, Americans have allowed ideology to trump mountains of empirical data. This is why they cannot even conceive of China becoming number one.

    The defensive reflex shown by the authors of the articles merely confirms the West’s thesis: that the West led by the U.S.A. is unwilling to acknowledge much less adapt to a changing geopolitical situation brought about by the coming of age of not just one but several non-western powers into the global stage. The authors resort to the same hackneyed denials of the inevitable displacement of the incumbent Western powers from the international pecking order.

    You should know that we are now living in a rapidly changing world…Peace, development, cooperation and mutual benefit have become the trend of our times. To keep up with the times, we cannot have ourselves physically living in the 21st century, but with a mindset belonging to the past, stalled in the old days of colonialism, and constrained by zero-sum Cold War mentality.

  131. @Bruce County

    this is so sweet! are Black americans that close to taking over the military, gain control of the nuclear Bombs?

    if that happens i imagine the whole world would breathe a huge sigh of relief it would be audible everywhere. the fear stems from the massive power in crazy white hands…blowing up everything, creating and seeding diseases everywhere, growing GMO food, massive insane productions that make poisoned milk and cheese: assassinations and murders everywhere in the world, over-throwing governments and on and on.

    that is what white americans have been doing..are doing..and Bruce county is afraid of Black people who did not explode nuclear bombs already as whites have done.

    if Black people took over america the first thing Putin would do is talk..reduce tensions, deals to end all the crap. and Black people would talk because that is what they want…PEACE! AND PROSPERITY

    BUT THAT IS NOWHERE NEAR HAPPENING. THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL WHITE PEOPLE ARE LOSING POWER TO BLACK PEOPLE IN THE USA. THAT JUST ISN’T HAPPENING AS FAR AS I SEE!

    THE SO-CALLED BLACK CITIES THAT RUINED WERE NOT RUINED BY BLACK PEOPLE. THOSE CITIES ARE BEING SANCTIONED BY SYSTEMATIC AND EXTREME EXPLOITATION. THE WHITE FINANCIAL POWER DOES NOT CARE ABOUT ORDINARY PEOPLE..ALL OF THEM INCLUDING WHITES.

    THAT SAME WHITE FINANCIAL POWER HAS AN ESPECIAL HELL COMING UP FOR ORDINARY WHITE PEOPLE. AND I CAN SEE BRUCE COUNTRY HAVING A SPECIAL CELL UP IN THERE

  132. @Bill Jones

    Good one, Bill. That “We” saying is an indicator that the person using it is deluded by TV and thus deranged. I think the proper psychiatric term is “fucked in the squash”.

  133. @notanon

    “i think this is short-sighted.” I think it’s much worse than short-sighted. It’s more like disingenuous, or even obtuse, bordering on delusional.

  134. @Anon

    There are many steps in the decline n fall of any empire. Spain’s first was the defeat of the Armada in 1588. It’s final collapse was only in 1898 with Dewey’s annihilation of the Spanish fleet off Manila.

    Britain’s first was WWI when it became deeply indebted to the US to finance its war effort. Second was its apparent inability to halt the Bolsheviks from consolidating power in Russia, or to prevent Kemal Ataturk from consolidating his power in Turkey, then its inability to resist American pressure when the US forced Britain to abandon its policy of supporting Japan in 1923, followed by Britain’s inability to prevent Hitler coming to power in Germany or consolidating his position.

    These failures were all manifest weaknesses in what people still generally thought of as the world’s greatest military power. Britain failed to recognize its weakness n far overextended itself with its declaration of war on Hitler’s Germany in September 1939, quickly demonstrating that it was completely helpless to aid Poland, in fact Britain could not even assist France when it launched its one feeble ground attack into Germany.

    Britain finally realized the full extent of its weakness with the disaster at Dunkirk, followed by its complete dependence on the US in every way. All Britain could do after that was plead with Roosevelt to intervene, n its constant whining for Stalin to please save Britain by attacking Germany from behind, which Stalin intelligently ignored until he was himself invaded.

    By then, Britain was so helpless that when Japan attacked Britain n the US in late 1941, Japan quickly sank the battleship Prince of Wales n battlecruiser Repulse on Dec 10, 1941, n forced the surrender of Singapore with 90,000 Indian n British troops on Feb 15, 1942, who surrendered almost without firing a shot. A collapse so sudden n thorough that Britain never recovered. Indian independence could not avoided after that, n once India went, the rest of the Empire had to follow, as, without Indian revenue, Britain could no longer afford a blue water navy.

    Retreat from Palestine in 1948, n the Suez humiliation, when Eisenhower ordered Britain, France, n Israel to evacuate Suez, were merely aftereffects of Britain’s collapse during WWII. The only chance Britain had of avoiding the final humiliation would have been to accept one of Hitler’s peace offers n bring peace back to Europe before Russia became involved. Britain’s last gasp was the Falkland Islands affair in 1982. Now it doesn’t even have the navy to repeat that episode.

  135. @Walt

    Why do you think you have to handle the world at all. The world will be just fine without you. Just piss of, and all will be good and dandy.

    • Replies: @Walt
  136. @ben sampson

    When the production and distribution system is fully automated and robotised what will capitalism even mean? One AI run factory competing against another AI run factory? To maximise profits for some owners who will sell to the unemployed they will give some miserable low income for doing nothing so they can go shopping? The whole concept of capitalism will become ridiculous except for some arrogant prick claiming it is his because he incorporated or bought shares of some AI ran business. All that will remain is for the people to just take over those AI run factories and get rid of the pathetic bosses and redistribute their profits amongst themselves while things just keep running AI efficient. And hang the bosses upside down from the lamp-posts by one foot as the fools that they are.

  137. @Alden

    EU citizens seem perfectly happy with affirmative action discrimination against themselves.

    The EU does not have citizens, it is a private criminal club without a people, land and legitimacy.

  138. deschutes says:

    I get so sick of the hackneyed cliché of USA being “the world’s only superpower”. It never actually was: it was one of many comparable superpowers during WWII. After WWII Russia easily rivaled if not in fact surpassed the USA as the global superpower. Even after the USSR collapsed in 1991, it was easily on parity with USA in terms of military might, as both countries had a nuclear arsenal to totally destroy the enire planet hundreds of times over. Russia is even stronger today than back in the 1990s. Same goes for China. So all this bullshit talk about America being the ‘world’s only superpower’ is just a bunch of self indulgent rhetoric and nothing more.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  139. Rurik says:
    @chris

    the very well lubricated US and Western Europe political war machine is not going to be lent out by Israel to the Saudis for a joy-ride in Yemen if it doesn’t serve the direct strategic interest of the whole enchilada.

    I have to assume that the strategists in Israel don’t want to overuse their machine on just any old feud, lest it lose some of its efficiency.

    Thanks Chris,

    As to the Saudis, I’m sure you’re right about them being Israel’s bitch, but they have their own parallel agendas as well.

    Sending Syria reeling into a dystopian hell on earth, ruled over by stone age, head slicing orcs, (ISIS), served both Israel’s and the Saudi’s agendas. They both want to crush any resistance to their respective unilateral power in the region. But the Saudis know that when push comes to shove, if Israel ever decides that they’re inconvenient, then all support for the House of Saud would disappear over night, and Trump and Macron and May would all be insisting that Mohammed bin Salman ‘has to go’.

    The House of Saud is like Israel’s dog. As long as it barks at Israel’s enemies, (Iran/Assad), or attacks its neighbors (like Yemen – Iran ally), it will be patted on the head and called a ‘good doggie’ by the Zionists whose hand it licks.

    If it ever decided to growl at the Zionists, (and join the ranks of Muslims in good standing with their God, their religion, and their people), then the West would crush it like a bug.

    • Replies: @chris
  140. Wow, Rurik ! That’s a very good critique; thanks !

    Yeah, rurik is consistently excellent. One of the few commenters I actually read. Look forward to what he has to say as well.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  141. MarkinLA says:
    @deschutes

    Up until the mid 50s the US could have annihilated the USSR with impunity. They had no significant naval force and their nuclear stockpile was nowhere near what the US had. Real parity was not reached until well into the 60s.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
  142. Cyrano says:
    @MarkinLA

    Well then, all you have to do is vote republican and that will fix everything. Because there is a really big difference between republicans and democrats. No deep state will tell them what to do, no siree bob.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  143. Walt says:
    @Uriash Pablito

    with a funny name like yours where do you come from?

  144. Rurik says:
    @jacques sheete

    You’re too kind Jacques.

    Like you, I enjoy mocking our so-called ‘rulers’, and deflating their blowhards and hacks.

    (You have to admit, it is fun to do ; )

    but thank you for your kind words. And I always read your excellent comments as well..

  145. chris says:
    @Rurik

    If it ever decided to growl at the Zionists, … then the West would crush it like a bug.

    well as much as possible, this would apply to everyone, Germany, Russia, etc..

    I actually think the Saudis are the CIA’s private slush fund; the US restricts its main competitors on the oil market for them and lets them cash in on ensuing monopolistic profits (not fully of course, but generally). In return, the Saudis do as they are told, such as Iran-Contra, opening up networks of Islamic schools, as MBS said in his WoPo interview (before making sausages out of one of their writers), 911, etc.

    • Replies: @Germanicus
    , @Rurik
  146. @MarkinLA

    The moment USSR had a nuke it did not matter how many more USA had. In conventional terms USSR was always superior to USA in European theater of operations, hence USA as usually barked a lot but did nothing. Sick puppy that is finally revealed as phony superpower when faced with adults.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  147. Cyrano says:
    @notanon

    the cultural Left support mass immigration partly for direct cultural reasons and partly because it means they can leverage the extra votes for other Left policies.

    What other “Left” policies? Multiculturalism was invented in order to prevent any concessions to the domestic workforce. Multiculturalism so exhausted the “generosity” of the rich elites, that there was none left for the domestic working class.

    • Replies: @notanon
  148. @chris

    I actually think the Saudis are the CIA’s private slush fund;

    Have a read…

    US captured Iraqi documents.

    Correspondence,dated 24 Sep 2002,within the General Military Intelligence directorate(GMID), regarding a research study titled,”The Emergence of AI-Wahhabiyyah Movement and its Historical Roots”

    http://www.conspiracyschool.com/sites/default/files/Iraqi%20Intel%20-%20The%20Emergence%20of%20Wahhabism%20and%20its%20Historical%20Roots_0.pdf

    Another good read is here:

    The Dönmeh: The Middle East’s Most Whispered Secret (Part I)
    http://www.conspiracyschool.com/node/242

    The Dönmeh: The Middle East’s Most Whispered Secret (Part II)
    http://www.conspiracyschool.com/node/243

    • Replies: @chris
  149. This connects directly to Mr Whitney’s article that cites from Richard Haass’ snivel piece. Friedman of Stratfor(the private CIA) is a representative of the decaying “liberal” international socialist NWO.

    Friedmann states: “…but we don’t know what the Germans will do” and he is not talking about the criminal FRG regime full of traitors, they installed after WWII, but about the German peoples who might depose of the evil regime installed and might reorient towards Russia. It would be a natural alliance, a win-win for both Russia and Germany, because together, it would be a formidable force not to be messed with.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  150. notanon says:
    @Cyrano

    Multiculturalism was invented in order to prevent any concessions to the domestic workforce.

    i agree that was the initial driver but once it started some of the cultural Left saw it as an opportunity to push things they wanted like
    – secularization
    – lgbt
    – and more recently green ideas.

    in particular i often saw immigrants being used as an excuse for secularization in schools by people who always wanted it.

  151. chris says:
    @Germanicus

    Wow, Germanicus, thanks. I’ve never read that kind of document before; it’s nice to see that your hunches can be confirmed with actual documents.

    • Replies: @Germanicus
  152. @chris

    The last lines In Madsen’s part II from 2010 …

    With new freedom in Turkey and Egypt to examine their pasts, there is more reason for Israel and its supporters, as well as the Sauds, to suppress the true histories of the Ottoman Empire, secular Turkey, the origins of Israel, and the House of Saud.

    … are actually not valid any longer in Egypt, because the Muslim Brother(hood) Mursi was deposed of and Al Sisi, a jew, was installed. They basically rolled it back in Egypt, military dictatorship. The Egyptian military is totally dependent on the US, they pay them.

    In this context, it would make sense Sultan Erdogan doubled the number of Turkish ground troops, from 500,000 to 1 Million. Since Madsen wrote his articles, there was another coup attempt against Erdogan, which failed.

    Despite this, Turkey got dragged in the Syria mess, which predictably backfired with the Kurds. Turkey has about 20 Million Kurds, 1/5 of its population. Davotoglu, at the time foreign minister, is a Dönmeh and loyal NATO stooge and puppet.

    • Replies: @Germanicus
  153. @Germanicus

    Friedman of Stratfor(the private CIA)

    LOL. Friedman is a moron with zero background, except in game theory, in military and intelligence–he and his “organization” is a club of shysters staffed with students freshly graduated from humanities faculties in universities. This BS title as “Shadow CIA” was bestowed on STRATFOR by Russian uber-patriots who don’t know shit from shinola. It is from the same opera as The National Interest rag having “military experts”. Read what this “outlet” is, on the site of actual military and intelligence professionals:

    https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2012/02/dr-brenner-on-stratfor.html#more

    Stratfor is a sleazy outfit. It was established as a money machine by George Friedman and a former Texas Congressman (now out of the picture) who served at one time on the House Foreign Affairs Committee. His being the co-founder along with the presence in the vicinity of numerous retired military people and civilian officials helps explain the selection of Austin as the company’s home. They hustle; everything they do smacks of a hustle. They exploit the student interns while playing on their desire to partake of the mysterious and the romantic. Those they do hire for regular positions get the skimpiest of wages. Expertise and languages are little valued. Their hallmark tool is an electronic pair of scissors. One student had spent four years as an interrogator for the U.S. Army in Iraq and Afghanistan. He served as an employee of a contract firm there. His first assignment as a junior member of the Stratfor team was to prowl around the Rio Grande Valley looking for stuff on the drug cartels; he never had been there before.

    STRATFOR’s “military expertise” can create bouts of Homeric laughter even among first year cadets in the military academies.

    • Replies: @Germanicus
    , @Germanicus
  154. @Germanicus

    To expand a bit…

    After shooting Karlov, Altıntaş circled the room, smashing pictures that were on display and shouting in Arabic and Turkish: “Allahu Akbar (God is the greatest). We are the descendants of those who supported the Prophet Muhammad, for jihad. Do not forget Aleppo, do not forget Syria”[5][8][15][18][19] and “We die in Aleppo, you die here”.[20] Shortly after, Altıntaş was shot and killed by Turkish security forces.[21] Karlov was taken to the hospital, but died from his injuries.[5]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Andrei_Karlov

    What wiki does not mention, the name Altıntaş, translates into Goldstein(golden stone).

  155. @Andrei Martyanov

    STRATFOR’s “military expertise” can create bouts of Homeric laughter even among first year cadets in the military academies.

    Yet, it is precisely what is happening in eastern Europe, and why NATO(ie the US) deploy these “rotating” troops there. They would be cannon fodder to the Russians anyway in case of war.
    The reason for this is the missing peace treaty with Germany btw, which Russia is willing to discuss, the US don’t.

    So, is the US military led by the same morons as in Stratfor and Israel, who are fanatically into game theory?

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  156. Rurik says:
    @chris

    making sausages out of one of their writers), 911, etc.

    I’m unaware, (literally Chris) of any Saudi involvement in 9/11, whatsoever.

    The “Saudi terrorists” were patsies, and some are still alive.

    It was Israel (with help from the deepstate/CIA/FBI/controlled media, etc..) who perpetrated 9/11.

    Other than that, I agree with everything you say.

  157. Round file this with Eisenhower’s (a lifelong participant in the MIC) warning about the MIC as he exited stage right to play more golf. After being a figurehead for the Dulles brothers who ran State and CIA. Also after commissioning the film that created the holocaust out of whole cloth.

    Along with ex-Fed Chairs explanations of what went wrong during their tenure, as the unconstitutional, privately owned, FED robs Americans deliberately.

    Does anyone else find it curious that the national debt is 22 trillion USD and the Pentagram has misplaced 21 trillion USD.

    Who were the ultimate recipients of that gravy?

    I guess “Know Your Customer” and CTRs & SARs do not apply to supernational trillionaire families.

  158. Iris says:
    @Curmudgeon

    They understood perfectly well that immigration was the reserve army of capital to attack living wages

    This is an economic fact; nothing racist about what you are saying..

    I quote from Korea-born economist Ha-Joon Chang, specialist in Development and Reader at the university of Cambridge:

    The wage gap between rich and poor countries exists not mainly because of differences in individual productivity but mainly because of immigration control. If there were free immigration, most workers in rich countries could be, and would be, replaced by workers from poor countries. In other words, wages are largely politically determined.”

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  159. FB says: • Website
    @notanon

    In fact China’s rise to global economic primacy is not specifically a ‘realignment’…it is simply a return to equilibrium…200 years ago China’s economy was the biggest in the world by far…its decline…by means of western economic and physical aggression…was always going to be only temporary…China has been a major civilizational and scientific locomotive for a good part of humanity’s history…

    • Replies: @notanon
    , @MarkinLA
  160. @Germanicus

    So, is the US military led by the same morons as in Stratfor and Israel, who are fanatically into game theory?

    1. There is nothing wrong in learning game theory as an exercise in mathematics. After all, serious military institutions prepare their officers in high level calculus, statistics, theory of probability and operational research for a reason. Other than that, real military background implies thorough (and often dangerous) and sometimes extremely complex exercising of professional skills all of which are designed to kill the enemy before he kills you. Mr. Friedamn has zero background in it.

    2. I am sure that there are still many really professional people in US military. However, the Navy which eliminates position of navigation officers and trains driving ships with GPS (easily disabled during actual war) and the Army which can not properly train its lower level personnel in basic military skills, such as:

    https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/04/22/most-army-squads-falling-short-infantry-skills-reports-find.html

    One is bound to start asking questions of the “what the hell are they thinking there” variety. I simply don’t know, but what I see is not optimistic in a sense that someone (or rather almost everyone) delusional from US political top may think that they can start a war, say around Russia, and win it–as this “military mind” Friedman thought in 2014 and even published such a scenario re: Ukraine. I first laughed like hell, but then was terrified–by the level of “expertise” in the US.

    • Agree: Sergey Krieger
  161. @Andrei Martyanov

    Let’s get a bit deeper, but I don’t want to bore you.

    Game theory is funnily connected to these strange “quantum”(there no such thing as a quantum, only dielectric discharges) computers they call D-Wave, a black cube. Clients are google and NASA

    Develop novel hybrid quantum-classical algorithms for non-linear integer optimization.[145] The group has conducted numerical testing on D-Wave of their new hybrid quantum-classical algorithm to compute Graver basis, which is known to be useful in many applications of non-linear integer optimization and game theory[146][147] and use it for optimization.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sridhar_Tayur

    Geordie Rose, its creator …

    People who know the Bible, or Quran would notice, they try to summon demons, or how Rose put it “exploit parallel universes”. It is a quantum cult, it is Jewish, and they are nuts. They essentially want to replace god’s creation with machines. Frankenstein’s monster and Skynet terminators. They want to play god.

    In November 2017, Ronan Farrow reported in The New Yorker that film executive Harvey Weinstein hired Black Cube in order to stop the publication of the abuse allegations against him. Using false identities, private investigators from Black Cube tracked and met journalists and actresses, in particular Rose McGowan, who later publicly accused Weinstein of rape. Over the course of a year, Weinstein had Black Cube and other agencies “target, or collect information on, dozens of individuals, and compile psychological profiles that sometimes focussed on their personal or sexual histories.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Cube
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/Kaaba_-Mecca_-Saudi_Arabia-1Aug2008.jpg/1200px-Kaaba_-Mecca_-Saudi_Arabia-1Aug2008.jpg

  162. Franz says:
    @Alden

    Whatever those Chinese men did, they did it with full cooperation of the university and whatever government agencies used all those rooms and the separate buildings

    You got it.

    I knew one fellow on the knock-out crew in Fontana, California, when the old Kaiser mill (WWII vintage, but a specialty steel complex that had made steel for the war) was cut up in giant pieces and sent over to southern China.

    I asked the fellow which Chinese industry was paying for the Chinese to come here and pay to chop, package, and ship an entire steel mill to China and he busted out laughing.

    We’re paying for this, buddy!” he said. I might add, not just us but our kids and grand-kids also.

    I checked and he was right. The Import-Export bank (Washington State and Delaware division) paid for that one.

    One thing always amazed us about those years is how the media kept saying “American consumers have an insatiable taste for cheap foreign goods” without referencing the fact that we paid for it with our future, and it’s non-returnable.

    • Replies: @notanon
  163. Franz says:
    @notanon

    but it seems to me there ought to be a few people on the US imperialist side, especially in the military, who simply didn’t think much about the economic side of things, assumed the banking mafia’s neoliberal economics was in their interests and didn’t realize the banking mafia were betraying them all along.

    Right and there were a few who actually were pretty wise to the “foreign trade” scam perpetrated in the late 20th.

    A retired Air Force general, whose last post in service was strategic planning, made the rounds in the early Clinton years and explicitly said our national security was being compromised by our lunatic love for outsourcing. He explicitly mentioned such things as highly specialized wire harnesses and other critical components to aircraft being made overseas, since that’s what he’d seen. He talked to union guys, management, city halls, anybody that would listen.

    He also mentioned he had no real voice inside. Military men, alas, mostly obey and follow rules. The sad fact is the few who speak out are in danger of being threatened into silence, and my guess is some have been.

    • Replies: @notanon
  164. notanon says:
    @FB

    nonsense

    Wall St. off-shored the US manufacturing base to China to line their own pockets,

    economic treason

    • Replies: @FB
  165. notanon says:
    @Franz

    exactly – it was a betrayal

  166. notanon says:
    @Franz

    yes – most people are bored by economics so they’re easily conned by the banking mafia

  167. Ironically, Putin has become the greatest defender of the international system

    This is a boatload of manure. Putin is the biggest enemy as he conducts his foreign policy much as his hero, Stalin, did. He is diddling in his “near abroad” trying to take back the soviet empire and make it his own. There is no way the US can “partner” with such a man, and we can’t “partner” with Red China, which is also trying to engage in conquest by small encroachments on its neighbors. I guess, then, we should have partnered with Hitler rather than smashing him. Using such reasoning, Hitler was just misunderstood.

    Any one who seriously thinks that Putin can be an ally or partner is fooling themselves.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • LOL: FB
  168. FB says: • Website
    @notanon

    I never disputed the corruption of Wall Street…what I am disputing is your idea that the US built China…and so the US can knock it back down again…that’s the nonsense part…

    • Replies: @notanon
  169. MarkinLA says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    What a moronic comment. The USSR had no way to deliver nukes in any significant amount or defend itself in the 50s. As for conventional forces, the USSR had numbers but their equipment was generally inferior to the west. Given the force ratios needed by the attacking forces to overcome a dug in enemy, there is no guarantee of Soviet victory, especially given the USSRs high casualty rate and unreliable “allies”.

  170. MarkinLA says:
    @Cyrano

    Who was saying anything about voting and it’s usefulness? I was only commenting on your convoluted attempt to make open borders a right wing policy.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  171. MarkinLA says:
    @FB

    China has been a major civilizational and scientific locomotive for a good part of humanity’s history…

    Nonsense – What happened in China stayed in China for the most part. The only reason China had such a large part of the world’s GDP (if you can call it that) was because there was NO industrial revolution and farming and production were limited by what a man could do in a day.

    I remember reading some physicist calculated that even at 1000 dollars a barrel oil is still dirt cheap because one barrel of oil has the same amount of potential work as 25,000 man hours. Europeans found ways to harness the energy available in nature that came from somewhere other than themselves or their beasts of burden.

    • LOL: FB
  172. FB says: • Website

    You’re comment dismissing China’s contributions to humanity are plain fucking retarded…really they don’t merit further discussion since anyone saying something so profoundly stupid is not worth the wasted time…

    The Japanese language and characters are based on Chinese…it’s an offshoot of Chinese culture…Chinese had incredibly sophisticated governance and jurisprudence long before anyone…they invented the decimal number system which came later to Europe by way of India and the Arabs…the Chinese invention of the stirrup revolutionized warfare and established the dominance of heavy cavalry for centuries…

    You’re the typical UNZ know-nothing…

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @MarkinLA
  173. Cyrano says:
    @MarkinLA

    It is a right wing policy. Just ask yourself this question: What has immigration done for the homegrown working class? Nothing.

    The ruling elites are trying to make a case that they are great humanitarians based on the racial profile of the new immigrants that they bring. But even that doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny.

    What the rich elites are basically saying is: ”We don’t care what race are the people that we exploit”. Hardly a humanist attitude. It’s all phony, man. Forget about that nonsense about “We are all equal”.

    Capitalism has never been about equality and never will be. Immigration is not a leftist policy, even when you factor in the racial make-up of the new immigrants. Doesn’t make any difference. It still benefits only the rich and the newcomers. It does nothing for the vast majority of the population.

    • Replies: @Sergey Krieger
    , @MarkinLA
  174. It is a right wing policy.

    It is a jewish war policy, mainly peddled by the jewish left, while the jewish right may like immigration in other countries, but not in Israel.

    Capitalism and Communism are the two sides of the same jewish coin.
    In capitalism, there is an artificial lack of money and plenty of goods to buy, in communism, you have an artificial lack of goods, but plenty of useless money.

    Anyhow, the US is not capitalism, it is socialism, command economy, highly planned and controlled, with a jewish central bank, just like in communism. All these mentioned *isms have common denominator, they are democracies.

    • Replies: @bluedog
  175. @MarkinLA

    Inferior equipment, lol. Force ratios. You probably would expect Soviet army to behave in the same stupid manner as you would. High casualties? Sure American military did not have high casualties because it has been fighting third world shit holes who did not have means and capabilities to inflict those. But if you look at speeds of advance against germans Americans were averaging 2 km a day and Soviets 20 km against larger and better equipped German forces. Expecting to fight such peer without certain level of casualties is a pipe dream. You should also read about The West 1981 exercise. There all your ratios gone. It was calculated that all NATO forces in Europe would not last for more than 2 weeks under that sort of onslaught.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  176. jimmy g p says:

    Excellent account ,unfortunately your dealing with US psychopath politicians . There will never be
    peace on a global scale.
    Look at the US internally .a massive cesspool with corruption and exploitation on every level,this is the way these psychopaths operate .
    Absolute disregard for American populace, so how do they view the rest of the world.?

  177. @MarkinLA

    but their equipment was generally inferior to the west.

    You mean USSR having an absolute superiority in such systems as tanks, artillery and having largest, most experienced operational-tactical air force in history up to that point? Evidently USAF encounter with 64th Air Corps in Korea sent shock waves, still resonating, about Soviet combat aircraft and pilots skills. I would say that even T-54/55 tanks were pretty damn good. So, your statement is not entirely correct since USSR had a dramatic superiority of its forces in Europe and nuclear war games were conducted not for once by NATO side. Once USSR detonated first bomb in 1949 having by that time a rather large fleet of TU-4 strategic bombers, any talk about bombing USSR became a silly business.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @anon
  178. MarkinLA says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    I am not arguing about who is better or who would win in a war. Although I think given the large loss of men by the USSR in WWII that all the talk of the Red Army rolling across Europe are as dumb as Patton thinking he could roll over the Red Army. The main point was there was a small window of time where the US with it’s nuclear and industrial capabilities could have attacked and destroyed most of the major USSR cities and there was nothing the USSR could do about it.

  179. MarkinLA says:
    @Sergey Krieger

    How far an army moves in day has more to do with the terrain than anything else. I am well aware that the Red Army did the heavy lifting against Germany. However, their officers lack of respect for the lives of their troops resulted in a very high casualy rate that the US and Britain did not have.

  180. MarkinLA says:
    @FB

    What does the spread of Chinese based languages and the stirrup have to do with your original claim that China has been the most significant country in the world in terms of science, economic output, and civilization?

    Nothing that happened in China went anywhere other than the boundaries of the old Chinese Empires. This the Chinese did to themselves. The Chinese like many old empiresa had periods of brilliance and periods of decline. The problem is that when the decline came almost all of the brilliance was lost. This happened in the west as well but to a far lesser extent.

    What modern country uses the Chinese Imperial system of governamce today? If that were the case then we could say that China had a large impact on politics of the world.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
    , @Ron Unz
  181. MarkinLA says:
    @Cyrano

    Capitalism has never been about equality and never will be.

    Duh. It is about making money. Other forces have to come into play to force equality (if such a thing exists). However, socialism is (for all the BS spouted by it’s supporters) also not about equality. It is about one group taking power for itself by using the stupidity of the mob.

    Socialism has to deal with peoples differing attitudes toward life. Not everybody wants to work to achieve more. Plenty of people are happy to do nothing all day long as long as they get their three meals (preferably prepared by somebody else). To police that, socialism has to get pretty darn inhumane.

  182. MarkinLA says:
    @FB

    they invented the decimal number system which came later to Europe by way of India and the Arabs

    So without that mathematics could never have been discovered or advanced? Somebody needs to tell Archimedes, considered the second greatest mathematician of all time, who did it all without it. Archimedes also invented a radix type numbering system (we use base 10) but it had too many elements to be of practical use.

    • Replies: @FB
  183. notanon says:
    @FB

    Wall St’s betrayal (off-shoring) kick-started China’s rapid expansion (obviously).

    i agree it is significantly self-reinforcing now.

    i never said the US could (or should) knock it back down – i’m saying if the US chased out the banking mafia and brought back tariffs the global economy would rebalance more evenly.

    there was nothing *natural* about any of this.

    • Replies: @FB
  184. anon[188] • Disclaimer says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    You mean USSR having an absolute superiority in such systems as tanks, artillery and having largest, most experienced operational-tactical air force in history up to that point? Evidently USAF encounter with 64th Air Corps in Korea sent shock waves, still resonating, about Soviet combat aircraft and pilots skills. I would say that even T-54/55 tanks were pretty damn good. So, your statement is not entirely correct since USSR had a dramatic superiority of its forces in Europe and nuclear war games were conducted not for once by NATO side.

    anyone else notice more and more of these jingoistic cuckoos from the old soviet side?

  185. FB says: • Website
    @MarkinLA

    You’re one of the most spectacular idiots on this website of spectacular idiots…I have already refuted your bullshit and others here have refuted other bullshit of yours…keep living in ignorance…it’s the best reward for dunces like you…

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  186. @MarkinLA

    The main point was there was a small window of time where the US with it’s nuclear and industrial capabilities could have attacked and destroyed most of the major USSR cities and there was nothing the USSR could do about it.

    This is precisely the point I challenge. There was no any REAL moment as, if one discounts Lemay’s psychobabble, many war-games and calculations on the US side testify to. Hence no attack on USSR happened. Plus, RKKA had an overwhelming advantage over Allied Forces in Europe both in numbers and experience of large (well, gigantic really) combined arms operations. You can get more precise data for armed forces structure for May 1, 1945 by General Staff–it was a vast superiority.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  187. MarkinLA says:
    @FB

    You have refuted nothing. You have provided insignificant annecdotes that prove nothing. You think using a decimal numbering system is somehow the equivalent of the invention of calculus. Even the Mayans had a radix numbering system (base 20). Yet Myan mathematics is nowhere to be found in use in the world. No great Mayan mathemeticians are recognized. Maybe you can point me to the ancient Chinese mathemetician who made a significant mark on the rest of the world and not just China.

    You show yourself to be some little child who thinks name calling makes you the winner in an argument.

    China has never had any significant presence or inflence anywhere other than the far East. I make no claims about China’s future only that their past as it related to the rest of the world was not that significant.

  188. MarkinLA says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Of course it is all speculation. However, there was technology transfer that occurred that would not have if the west had plans to attack the USSR at the end of the war. Specifically, Churchill’s gift of the jet engine.

    An attack by the US would not come just from Europe but by naval forces in the Black Sea and Arctic Ocean. I am not sure early 50’s USSR had the capabilities to repel nuclear armed attacks on all those fronts.

    As for a counterattack, the TU-4 was just a copy of the B-29. I doubt it could fly all the way from the USSR to the lower 48 of the US without being intercepted.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  189. FB says: • Website
    @notanon

    No…Wall Street didn’t ‘kickstart’ anything in China…they jumped on the bandwagon after the industrial infrastructure was in place…big difference…

    • Replies: @notanon
  190. @MarkinLA

    How about you start reading Professor Needham’s encyclopedic 7 volume “Science and Civilisation in China” compiled over a 40 year period by academic researchers and published by Cambridge University Press.

    Just for one, multiple rocket launcher, the most effective field artillery, originated in China in at least the 11th Century.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @MarkinLA
    , @MarkinLA
  191. @MarkinLA

    As for a counterattack, the TU-4 was just a copy of the B-29. I doubt it could fly all the way from the USSR to the lower 48 of the US without being intercepted.

    We are talking about specifically European Theater of Operations immediately post WW II. Not intercontinental strikes. B-4 was, indeed, an exact copy of B-29 which still in no way diminish its ability to carry nuclear free-falling bombs. It did it as well as the original.

    An attack by the US would not come just from Europe but by naval forces in the Black Sea and Arctic Ocean. I am not sure early 50’s USSR had the capabilities to repel nuclear armed attacks on all those fronts.

    It didn’t on all fronts, but it could reach into France. USSR had sufficient forces for that.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  192. FB says: • Website
    @Commentator Mike

    Why would this pathetic moron seek to expand his understanding of the world…that’s not what clinical idiots do…

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  193. MarkinLA says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Yes gunpowder was a major invention that affected the entire world. The issue was not that China never had a period of significant scientific advancement, only that most of it stayed in China and died when that period of brilliance ended. China built a great ocean going fleet in the early 1400’s and sailed all over the Indian Ocean, some think they may have made it to the Americas. When it got back to China, they scuttled it. This is typical of China’s place on the world stage.

    Very little of modern life can be traced back to Chinese origins. This is what the China proponents seem to miss. This is why I do not dismiss China’s future or say things like “they can’t innovate”. I know China is potentially capable of doing significant things in the future. What they did in the past, however, has little to do with the world today.

  194. MarkinLA says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    This doesn’t change the fact that the US did in fact have the ability for a short time to attack the USSR with impunity.

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  195. MarkinLA says:
    @FB

    Your comment says more about you than it does of me.

  196. bluedog says:
    @Germanicus

    By damn one who gets it capitalism and communism are twin sisters in the poverty they create/created,as the one said we have destroy the one great evil communism, now we must destroy the other great evil capitalism.!!!

    • Replies: @Germanicus
  197. Ron Unz says:
    @MarkinLA

    What does the spread of Chinese based languages and the stirrup have to do with your original claim that China has been the most significant country in the world in terms of science, economic output, and civilization?

    Nothing that happened in China went anywhere other than the boundaries of the old Chinese Empires.

    I’d strongly disagree. Quoting from one of my articles:

    …both the British and the Prussians used the Chinese mandarinate as their model for establishing a meritocratic civil service based on competitive examinations…. Indeed, [Lothrop] Stoddard argued that only three major inventions effectively separated the world of classical antiquity from that of 18th-century Europe—gunpowder, the mariner’s compass, and the printing press. All three seem to have first appeared in China, though for various social, political, and ideological reasons, none were properly implemented.

    http://www.unz.com/runz/chinas-rise-americas-fall/

    Even leaving aside the world’s three most fundamental inventions of that thousand-year period and the notion of a meritocratic civil service, there’s actually some reasonably persuasive evidence that the introduction of written examinations in Europe was actually based upon the Chinese example. So all tests used in today’s world may ultimately have their origins in China:

    http://www.unz.com/runz/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/#footnote_9

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  198. MarkinLA says:
    @Commentator Mike

    The problem with stuff like this Needham guy is that they comb ancient documents and pull something out that almost nobody in China ever heard about and claim – China invented …..

    Every significant civilization had similar inventions that died when that empire collapsed. There is no direct link between what we use now and that one-off that occurred centuries ago. An early Chinese inventor created an escape mechanism that made an accurate water clock possible. The problem is that nobody knew about it until centuries later when some researcher stumbled upon it in ancient manuscripts and rebuilt one. Nobody in China in the intervening 100s of years had even seen one. Do we then give the Chinese credit for the first working clock when the far more useful European designs had nothing to do with this one?

    The Egyptians and Roman medical practices were probably not surpassed by modern science until the mid 1800s. It is an interesting factoid of history but it does not diminish what was done by modern researchers. Unless you can show the Egyptian or Roman writings that were copied then you still have to give credit to those who rediscovered it as that is where our modern practices come from.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  199. @MarkinLA

    This doesn’t change the fact that the US did in fact have the ability for a short time to attack the USSR with impunity.

    Having Allied armies destroyed and most of Europe essentially overrun as a result of such an attack–I don’t think this qualifies as “with impunity”. In fact, behind decision NOT to bomb USSR was exactly this fear of the final state of such a reckless plan. Apart from obvious moral considerations–the pro-Soviet sentiment in the world was very strong.

    • Agree: Iris, FB, Sergey Krieger
    • Replies: @anon
    , @MarkinLA
  200. MarkinLA says:
    @Ron Unz

    Well I started with this:

    Nonsense – What happened in China stayed in China for the most part.

    So saying:

    Nothing that happened in China went anywhere other than the boundaries of the old Chinese Empires.

    Should have been caught in proof reading.

    I don’t think the Chinese printing press has any real connection to Gutenberg’s. I remember seeing something on the Gutenberg Bible, that his press with removable type was something unique. Again it is this policy of crediting China with one-offs that were lost to time as the originators of our modern devices.

    I think written examinations existed in other parts of the world other than China. I think it was also common in the Islamic Empire.

    I would take issue with those three as the most significant. Modern science and technology were born during the Renaissance and did more for the worlds advancement than the mariner’s compass which the Vikings and Polynesians seemed to do OK without. For navigation an accurate clock that can keep time on a ship is far more important as well as a sextant.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  201. anon[188] • Disclaimer says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    Apart from obvious moral considerations–the pro-Soviet sentiment in the world was very strong.

    and now?

  202. anon[188] • Disclaimer says:

    There are several reasons why all this is happening, and why now. The rise of populism is in part a response to stagnating incomes and job loss, owing mostly to new technologies but widely attributed to imports and immigrants.

    sure, its new technologies killing your job opportunities and dragging down wages not tens of millions of illegal aliens and H1B’s

    and what’s causing the price of rent to go thru the roof? new technologies?

  203. @Iris

    Thanks Iris,
    Another of my views of the “old left” is that it is derived from the old trade guilds in Europe. If you don’t know about them, the short version is every “skilled” job had a guild. The guild had local guilds. The locals determined who would become an apprentice, how long the apprenticeship would be, the number of “masters” in the town, the amount of goods produced, the quality of goods produced, and the price of the goods. It didn’t matter where you went to have your shoe repaired, the cost was the same and the quality of work was the same. It acted like a cartel, but the “masters” weren’t interested in becoming massively wealthy. It worked well for centuries.
    There were also merchant guilds who were given rights in trade of certain goods. As empires expanded, the merchants became more wealthy and more politically powerful. At their urging, the trade guilds were slowly crushed. This allowed the merchant guilds to become not only the traders, but the producers. This exploded in Britain after the creation of the Bank of England and elsewhere with the rise of the bankers. In the beginning, the merchant guilds were using empire to export their products, and imported products not produced in Europe, such as tea, silk, and spices. They shifted to local production of European goods in foreign lands, then finally to the export of foreign produced European goods back to Europe. The last step in “globalism” is to require us to “compete”, not only with other cities, in the same country, but with other countries. In order to do that, you need cheap foreign labour from the countries with whom you now compete.
    Ain’t the merchant class/capitalists great?

    • Replies: @Iris
  204. @bluedog

    I lived/live in both of these systems, I simply have the experience and comparison to figure out, its the same S***show. It like they offer you different flavors of poo, well, it will always remain poo, regardless they claim its shiny golden, it is poo.

  205. MarkinLA says:
    @Andrei Martyanov

    If your goal was total domination of the world, what’s a few hundred thousand of your own troops and tens of millions of Europeans if your only rival is destroyed?

    • Replies: @Andrei Martyanov
  206. @MarkinLA

    If your goal was total domination of the world, what’s a few hundred thousand of your own troops and tens of millions of Europeans if your only rival is destroyed?

    Europe was the main prize then (for a variety of reasons) and if USSR ended up occupying Europe, not to mention the effect of undeniably predictable massive mobilization of International Communist movement (enough to recall Italy)–there would have been no domination. It was Marshal Plan and restoration of Europe which drove American post-WW II prosperity. No other region existed then as even remote competitor as Europe for such applications. Marshall Plan was not a charity. With Germany, France and Italy at hand, the domination thing might have gone completely the other way in case of attack on USSR. In fact, since then, even today, the worst nightmare for the United States is economic integration between Russia and Germany, with Europe following suit. Albeit, nowadays Russians do not really care to support this cliche’ about “German Technology and Russian Resources”, because in many industrial technologies Russia can give Germany a run for her money. There is, however, no denial of the fact that Germans want desperately Russian market and gas and oil. And then there is this cultural “thing”.

  207. Ron Unz says:
    @MarkinLA

    I don’t think the Chinese printing press has any real connection to Gutenberg’s.

    That’s very possible. I think science historians generally agree that the compass, gunpowder, and printing press all appeared first in China, but tend to disagree about which if any of them appeared in Europe via independent discovery vs. cultural diffusion.

    However, I do think it’s generally acknowledged that the notion of a meritocratic government civil service in Britain and Prussia was copied from China. Don’t forget that right around that same time, Voltaire and many other top intellectuals were generally praising China as far superior to Europe in many ways.

    It’s very possible that the Islamic world also had written examinations, but since they were in direct contact with China and the Chinese were first by many centuries, they probably borrowed it. But I think there’s a lot of evidence that Britain and the other European countries adopted it directly from China rather than Islam, based on that journal article I happened to read some years ago. I seem to recall it may have spread from Hong Kong traders or that sort of thing.

    • Replies: @Germanicus
  208. @Ron Unz

    That’s very possible

    Movable letters are Gutenberg credits. That’s the distinction between precursors and Gutenberg printing.

    • Agree: Ron Unz
    • Replies: @Vidi
  209. Iris says:
    @Curmudgeon

    The last step in “globalism” is to require us to “compete”, not only with other cities, in the same country, but with other countries

    True. The goal of the globalist elite is to drag working people worldwide to the poorest standard of living possible, while pulling themselves even further up the wealth distribution ladder. Immigration is a key policy to achieve this goal.

    The globalists have succeeded so far by deliberately confusing political issues:
    – opposing mass immigration for socio-economic reasons is labelled racism
    – opposing the inappropriate brainwashing of children is called homophobia
    – opposing the massacre of Palestinian children is called anti-Semitism, etc…

    The globalists deliberately turn our civilizational value system upside down to create confusion and take control of a clueless society. And unfortunately, the idiotic Left whose historic role was to defend the working people has been completely subdued by the smoke-and-mirrors.

    The intellectual and ideological decadence the West has witnessed, however, was only made possible by the delirious hubris that followed the fall of the USSR. Now that Russia and China are on the rise, the West will inevitably benefit from their intellectual renaissance.

  210. @MarkinLA

    Certainly it is possible that many discoveries were made independently in different parts of the world but then also different civilisations influenced one another. Kublai Khan ruled possibly the largest empire ever extending from Southeast Asia to Europe from his capital in Xanadu and it is impossible that Arabs and Europeans didn’t come into contact with many Chinese inventions his horde brought with them. Mongols weren’t just destructive annihilators, they did establish an empire. For example, this is what wikipedia has to say about a major engineer and scientist who was Kublai Khan’s companion and adviser:

    Guo Shoujing (Chinese: 郭守敬, 1231–1316), courtesy name Ruosi (若思), was a Chinese astronomer, engineer, and mathematician born in Xingtai, Hebei who lived during the Yuan Dynasty (1271–1368). The later Johann Adam Schall von Bell (1591–1666) was so impressed with the preserved astronomical instruments of Guo that he called him “the Tycho Brahe of China.”Jamal ad-Din (astronomer) cooperated with him.

    This would imply that Arabs and Europeans were well aware of many of the achievements of Chinese science and used them in their own development work.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  211. notanon says:
    @FB

    obviously they did

    nb i’m not saying China wasn’t capable of achieving its current level of development on its own; i’m saying it could never have achieved the scale of it so fast without the active betrayal of Wall St.

    • Agree: Andrei Martyanov
  212. MarkinLA says:
    @Commentator Mike

    This would imply that Arabs and Europeans were well aware of many of the achievements of Chinese science and used them in their own development work.

    I wouldn’t go that far. You have one example. I will give you that it is impossible to know because there was no great world-wide repository of knowledge or intellectual property laws.

    China, far more than any other great civilization intentionally shut itself off from the rest of the world as the destruction of the great fleet shows. This and the great big nothingness between China proper and the heart of Europe. This had the effect of a lot of Chinese innovations being lost to time as dynasties collapsed and the ensuing chaos made life difficult for endeavors that don’t result in increased crops or products.

    What if there was no Johann. The instruments of Guo would have been lost to time and nobody would likely know anything about him unless some Yuan Dynasty Emperor’s tomb was excavated and found either some of those instruments or the manuscripts detailing their construction and use. If the Emperor at the time thought little of his inventions, they might not even be found there.

    Prior to the industrial revolution a lot of scientific advancements had no practical value and could easily be discarded with no one noticing. Take an accurate clock. What use does it have for a farmer or a tradesman paid by the job? It only became important because you need an accurate clock at sea to determine longitude. A huge prize was created for the first person who could create a clock that held time on a ship.

    The rate of scientific advance prior to and after the Renaissance are so different that you can almost ignore anything that came before as insignificant. They may be interesting in the ingenuity that the creator showed (such as the Greeks calculating the circumference of the Earth using shadows and geometry) but they are stiil insignificant compared to something like the invention of the steam engine.

  213. @MarkinLA

    The rate of scientific advance prior to and after the Renaissance are so different that you can almost ignore anything that came before as insignificant.

    The amazing thing is, the further you go back in the very distant past, ancient peoples understand how mother nature works a lot better than us modern ignorant stupid degenerate societies. Since the renaissance, we have just rediscovered what these people knew all along, and those that came before them.
    I am among the people who postulate a very advanced pre-ice age civilization, that left all these megalithic structure we can’t really reproduce today, let along figure out their purpose. It wasn’t tombs, I beg to differ, these were technical buildings, and whoever built these, had pretty sophisticated knowledge and technology.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  214. @MarkinLA

    Definitely sometimes the links to the original developers of some inventions are lost but I think that the Arabs and Ottomans served as a conduit of earlier Chinese, and also Indian, knowledge to Europe. I also think the European dark ages weren’t as dark as we’re led to believe, and neither was China as isolated as we are now told. There was extensive interaction between Europeans and Mongols and even cooperation between Europeans and Mongols in joint raids on Muslims in Palestine and Syria.

    Reading that wikipedia entry I did wonder how did von Bell even know about Guo’s instruments at that time, but obviously he had a means to familiarise himself with them.

    From another wikipedia article:

    In the summer of the Jubilee year (1300), Pope Boniface VIII received a dozen ambassadors, dispatched from various kings and princes. One of the groups was of 100 Mongols, led by the Florentine Guiscard Bustari, the ambassador for the Il-khan. The embassy, abundantly mentioned in contemporary sources, participated in the Jubilee ceremonies.

    In fact there were other Europeans too who worked for the Mongols during their invasions, raids and occupations and I don’t think Marco Polo was the first or only European to visit China at the time. And don’t forget that spies were also used extensively by all sides in the conflict in the Middle East, and these would have been specifically instructed to keep an eye out for military and any other useful innovations.

    • Replies: @RSDB
  215. MarkinLA says:
    @Germanicus

    Medicine is one area where due to religious superstition that ancients were far ahead of Medieval people and modern medicine didn’t finally catch up until the mid 1800s. They were still bleeding people in the early 1800s and cities were unfit to live in.

    Probably the greatest set-back in science and technology was that stupid Roman soldier who killed Archimedes after Rome conquered Syracuse. Archimedes was calculating the areas of surfaces using infinitesimals. The next step would have been calculus – the language of physics and engineering. It was all lost until Newton and Leibniz.

    • Replies: @Germanicus
  216. @MarkinLA

    Well, I think Romans and Greeks and earlier knew electricity.
    You can’t build with enormous metric tons without more sophisticated tools than be give the people credit. you simply can’t build the stuff with copper tools, impossible, and the archaeologic morons who declare everything a “tomb” and “cult object” simply owe an experimental proof for their insane ridiculous claims.

    I want to see them move a 10 ton block over several hundred kilometers by dragging it or whatever they postulate. After they did this, they had to show how they move and lift 1000 tons. After that, they had to show how they move and lift millions of uniquely sized blocks with such weight.

    They also had to show how they shape granite with copper tools, and polish the surface so it looks like a mirror, with incredible precision and perfection. We have serious problem with all today’s tools to replicate this stuff, its enormously precise.

  217. Vidi says:
    @Germanicus

    Movable letters are Gutenberg credits. That’s the distinction between precursors and Gutenberg printing.

    In AD 868, the Diamond Sutra was printed in China; see the British Library (link). Printing may have started much earlier in the Han Dynasty (roughly 200 BC to 200 AD), but the Diamond Sutra is the earliest printed work that we can date with some certainty, as it ends with “reverently made for universal free distribution by Wang Jie on behalf of his parents on the fifteenth of the fourth moon of the ninth year of Xian Long” (May 11, 868 AD).

    Movable type was invented in China by Bi Sheng, at about 1040 AD (link). He used baked clay to make the Chinese characters.

    I don’t know if Gutenberg invented movable type independently. He may not even have come up with the idea of printing by himself, as the Chinese-style woodblock/woodcut printing process had already spread as far as England by 1423; see the printed portrait of St. Christopher preserved in the John Rylands Library, Manchester, England (link).

    • Replies: @Germanicus
    , @Vidi
  218. @Vidi

    I don’t know if Gutenberg invented movable type independently.

    Yeah, these Europeans, and especially Germans, just didn’t invent anything. They just gave you people the modern electrical world, without Einstein and quantum voodoo, so you can trash them.

    I just wonder, the Chinese earlierst legend tell, they got civilisation from the west, the American peoples have similar legends, but they say, it came from the east. Can we figure out what this means please?

    • Replies: @Vidi
  219. Vidi says:
    @Vidi

    Incidentally, the phrase “made for universal free distribution” in the printed Diamond Sutra means the Sutra (dated 868 AD) may have been the world’s first open-source work!

    • Replies: @FB
  220. FB says: • Website
    @Vidi

    Very interesting…thanks for that…

  221. @Z-man

    They also hate Russia simply because Russia is white. Unapologetically white. This, they cannot permit.

  222. Vidi says:
    @Germanicus

    Yeah, these Europeans, and especially Germans, just didn’t invent anything. They just gave you people the modern electrical world, without Einstein and quantum voodoo, so you can trash them.

    I was just talking about printing. I presented lots of evidence that China was centuries ahead of Gutenberg, even in movable type. Maybe Gutenberg independently duplicated the printing process, but I also gave some evidence that printing was already being done in Europe before him. Your sarcasm is no substitute for truth.

    • Replies: @Germanicus
  223. @Vidi

    I presented lots of evidence that China was centuries ahead of Gutenberg, even in movable type.

    Yeah, so show me the chinese movable metal type letters.

    You don’t seem to have a clue how Gutenberg’s press works.
    Why did the Chinese adopt Gutenberg’s press?

    • Replies: @Vidi
  224. The Scalpel says: • Website

    “Someone has to stop the madness before the country descends into a second Civil War.”

    What is needed is peaceful secession

  225. Vidi says:
    @Germanicus

    Yeah, so show me the chinese movable metal type letters.

    Sure:

    Movable type made with baked clay.

    You don’t seem to have a clue how Gutenberg’s press works.

    Gutenberg duplicated the Chinese printing process in all essentials; the differences were minor refinements.

    Why did the Chinese adopt Gutenberg’s press?

    Probably because China had been printing with movable type all along, improving it with time, and Gutenberg’s device was just the latest improvement.

    For example, Wang Zhen printed his Book of Agriculture in 1313 (link). We know he used movable type because he described how his book was printed inside the book itself.

    There is an enormous amount of evidence that China was centuries ahead of Gutenberg.

    • Replies: @Germanicus
  226. @Vidi

    Yeah, so show me the chinese movable metal type letters.

    Movable type made with baked clay.

    You obviously can’t read properly.
    I asked you to show me chinese movable type made of metal.
    You come up with baked clay.

    There is an enormous amount of evidence that China was centuries ahead of Gutenberg.

    If you say so, a chinese knocked at his door and helped him build it, right?

    It somehow did not prevent the Chinese from adopting Gutenberg’s metal movable type letter.

    What is this? Quantum voodoo uncertainty of clay and metal or what?

    • Replies: @Vidi
  227. FB says: • Website

    If you look up Four Great Inventions, there is an interesting article in Wikipedia…the compass…gunpowder…paper…and printing…all from China…

    To those I would add the stirrup…but people with no direct experience with horsemanship will not understand the significance of the stirrup fully…the horse was the engine of human civilization for more than 5,000 years…

    As for moronic comments here about Chinese inventions only staying in China…look up woodcut…the method of printing before movable type…it came to Europe from China as a known fact…

    The age of scientific enlightenment in Europe certainly laid the foundations for our modern world based on electric energy and engines and machines…but this was built on a foundation of science and mathematics passed down through the ages…as Newton himself stated…

    If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants

    • Agree: Erebus, Vidi
    • Replies: @Thales the Milesian
  228. Erebus says:
    @Rurik

    what does this portend?

    Ukraine will be the next “land without people for a people without land”?

  229. Vidi says:
    @Germanicus

    You obviously can’t read properly.
    I asked you to show me chinese movable type made of metal.
    You come up with baked clay.

    OK, I missed the word “metal” in your request. From clay to metal is a minor refinement, one of those that I alluded to earlier.

    But fine, among the earliest Chinese movable type characters were some found in Korea (link to an article with pictures); these may have been made as early as 1239 AD. It is not certain whether the characters were actually made in China, as Korea had a thriving metallic movable type industry in the 1300s. But many accounts say that the original inventor of movable type, Bi Sheng, experimented with metallic characters, and this would have occurred shortly after his 1040 AD invention. Also, Wang Zhen, the author of Book of Agriculture in 1313, definitely experimented with movable type characters made with tin. So even for metallic movable type, China likely beat Gutenberg by centuries.

    There is an enormous amount of evidence that China was centuries ahead of Gutenberg.

    If you say so, a chinese knocked at his door and helped him build it, right?

    Who knows, that may have happened. In any case, there is no doubt that China made the first and most important breakthroughs in the printing process, centuries before Gutenberg.

    It somehow did not prevent the Chinese from adopting Gutenberg’s metal movable type letter.

    Gutenberg’s device was better — although only slightly better than the Chinese printing method — so they used it. Why not?

    • Replies: @Germanicus
  230. @Vidi

    OK, I missed the word “metal” in your request. From clay to metal is a minor refinement, one of those that I alluded to earlier.

    Are you familiar with the Frankfurt School’s “Critical Theory”? Yes, right, you deploy it, and you left a testament to your technical illiteracy.

    I know, you can’t have it, giving Europeans credit where credit is due, but from clay type to metal type Gutenberg used is a long way to go.

    If China was so far ahead, why did it fall back behind? Why does China steal technology as we speak?
    We do the US’s “allies” Israel steal technology and give it to China?

    I know China was a sophisticated society, I have no problem with that, but, the very first Emperor of China was not a Chinese. There has been contact between Romans and Chinese in antiquity, they even unearthed a Roman military town in Tarim region.

    The pre ice age knowledge got lost all over the place, and certain secret societies had been originally tasked to preserve it, instead of degenerating into criminal networks, while other of these have had been criminal from the beginning.

    • Replies: @Vidi
  231. @MarkinLA

    “US would have destroyed … most of the major Soviet cities…”

    And thus US would have proven their moral superiority.

  232. notanon says:

    1) China / east Asia were ahead of the game for a lot of history

    true

    2) the current destruction of the West and rise of China is a “natural” process of rebalancing after Europe temporarily overtook them.

    not true

    the “natural” outcome would have been China / east Asia rising with the end result some kind of balanced relationship between the West and east Asia.

    the current outcome is the result of Wall St. actively betraying the West to line their own pockets.

  233. Vidi says:
    @Germanicus

    OK, I missed the word “metal” in your request. From clay to metal is a minor refinement, one of those that I alluded to earlier.

    … you left a testament to your technical illiteracy.

    In practical terms, metal movable type is not much better than hard, baked clay, essentially porcelain. The porcelain would last for thousands of copies, probably for longer than most print runs in those early days, and metal would not have made much difference. Fabricating movable type from metal, and not porcelain, was less important, certainly, than more fundamental breakthroughs like the printing concept and the papermaking process, and the secondary breakthrough of deploying movable type — all of which appeared in China centuries before Gutenberg was born.

    I know, you can’t have it, giving Europeans credit where credit is due

    I give the Europeans plenty of credit. I just want the Europeans to give China the credit she has earned. Most life in Europe was completely changed by China’s great inventions, of which printing was one.

    Francis Bacon wrote in 1620, “Printing, gunpowder and the compass: These three have changed the whole face and state of things throughout the world; the first in literature, the second in warfare, the third in navigation; whence have followed innumerable changes, in so much that no empire, no sect, no star seems to have exerted greater power and influence in human affairs than these mechanical discoveries.” — Francis Bacon, Novum Organum, 1620

    Note that printing, gunpowder and the compass were all from China. I think paper was more important than even these three; Bacon should have cited it, but nobody is perfect.

    If China was so far ahead, why did it fall back behind?

    Every civilization has downturns. Europe needed over 1000 years to recover from the fall of the Roman Empire.

    Why does China steal technology as we speak?

    Ha ha ha ha. Europeans usually insist that Gutenberg was the inventor of the printing press, ignoring China’s prior, fundamental contributions, centuries before Gutenberg was born. Europe has basically been stealing most credit for possibly the greatest innovation of all — and you accuse China of stealing technology?

  234. @FB

    Othe Chinese inventions:

    Silk
    Coal burning
    China
    Rudder
    Spaghetti (noodles).

  235. RSDB says:
    @Commentator Mike

    Peking/Beijing had a Catholic Archbishop at approximately the Marco Polo era (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Montecorvino) though you probably know that already.

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