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“Secret cables and reports by the U.S., Saudi and Israeli intelligence agencies indicate that the moment Assad rejected the Qatari pipeline, military and intelligence planners quickly arrived at the consensus that fomenting a Sunni uprising in Syria to overthrow the uncooperative Bashar Assad was a feasible path to achieving the shared objective of completing the Qatar/Turkey gas link. In 2009, according to WikiLeaks, soon after Bashar Assad rejected the Qatar pipeline, the CIA began funding opposition groups in Syria.”

— Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Why the Arabs don’t want us in Syria, Politico

The conflict in Syria is not a war in the conventional sense of the word. It is a regime change operation, just like Libya and Iraq were regime change operations.

The main driver of the conflict is the country that’s toppled more than 50 sovereign governments since the end of World War 2. (See: Bill Blum here.) We’re talking about the United States of course.

Washington is the hands-down regime change champion, no one else even comes close. That being the case, one might assume that the American people would notice the pattern of intervention, see through the propaganda and assign blame accordingly. But that never seems to happen and it probably won’t happen here either. No matter how compelling the evidence may be, the brainwashed American people always believe their government is doing the right thing.

But the United States is not doing the right thing in Syria. Arming, training and funding Islamic extremists — that have killed half a million people, displaced 7 million more and turned the country into an uninhabitable wastelands –is not the right thing. It is the wrong thing, the immoral thing. And the US is involved in this conflict for all the wrong reasons, the foremost of which is gas. The US wants to install a puppet regime in Damascus so it can secure pipeline corridors in the East, oversee the transport of vital energy reserves from Qatar to the EU, and make sure that those reserves continue to be denominated in US Dollars that are recycled into US Treasuries and US financial assets. This is the basic recipe for maintaining US dominance in the Middle East and for extending America’s imperial grip on global power into the future.

The war in Syria did not begin when the government of Bashar al Assad cracked down on protestors in the spring of 2011. That version of events is obfuscating hogwash. The war began in 2000, when Assad rejected a Qatari plan to transport gas from Qatar to the EU via Syria. As Robert F Kennedy Jr. explains in his excellent article “Syria: Another pipeline War”:

“The $10 billion, 1,500km pipeline through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria and Turkey….would have linked Qatar directly to European energy markets via distribution terminals in Turkey… The Qatar/Turkey pipeline would have given the Sunni Kingdoms of the Persian Gulf decisive domination of world natural gas markets and strengthen Qatar, America’s closest ally in the Arab world. ….

In 2009, Assad announced that he would refuse to sign the agreement to allow the pipeline to run through Syria “to protect the interests of our Russian ally….

Assad further enraged the Gulf’s Sunni monarchs by endorsing a Russian approved “Islamic pipeline” running from Iran’s side of the gas field through Syria and to the ports of Lebanon. The Islamic pipeline would make Shia Iran instead of Sunni Qatar, the principal supplier to the European energy market and dramatically increase Tehran’s influence in the Mid-East and the world…”

Naturally, the Saudis, Qataris, Turks and Americans were furious at Assad, but what could they do? How could they prevent him from choosing his own business partners and using his own sovereign territory to transport gas to market?

What they could do is what any good Mafia Don would do; break a few legs and steal whatever he wanted. In this particular situation, Washington and its scheming allies decided to launch a clandestine proxy-war against Damascus, kill or depose Assad, and make damn sure the western oil giants nabbed the future pipeline contracts and controlled the flow of energy to Europe. That was the plan at least. Here’s more from Kennedy:

“Secret cables and reports by the U.S., Saudi and Israeli intelligence agencies indicate that the moment Assad rejected the Qatari pipeline, military and intelligence planners quickly arrived at the consensus that fomenting a Sunni uprising in Syria to overthrow the uncooperative Bashar Assad was a feasible path to achieving the shared objective of completing the Qatar/Turkey gas link. In 2009, according to WikiLeaks, soon after Bashar Assad rejected the Qatar pipeline, the CIA began funding opposition groups in Syria.

Repeat: “the moment Assad rejected the Qatari pipeline”, he signed his own death warrant. That single act was the catalyst for the US aggression that transformed a bustling, five thousand-year old civilization into a desolate Falluja-like moonscape overflowing with homicidal fanatics that were recruited, groomed and deployed by the various allied intelligence agencies.

But what’s particularly interesting about this story is that the US attempted a nearly-identical plan 60 years earlier during the Eisenhower administration. Here’s another clip from the Kennedy piece:

“During the 1950′s, President Eisenhower and the Dulles brothers … mounted a clandestine war against Arab Nationalism — which CIA Director Allan Dulles equated with communism — particularly when Arab self-rule threatened oil concessions. They pumped secret American military aid to tyrants in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon favoring puppets with conservative Jihadist ideologies which they regarded as a reliable antidote to Soviet Marxism….

The CIA began its active meddling in Syria in 1949 — barely a year after the agency’s creation…. Syria’s democratically elected president, Shukri-al-Kuwaiti, hesitated to approve the Trans Arabian Pipeline, an American project intended to connect the oil fields of Saudi Arabia to the ports of Lebanon via Syria. (so)… the CIA engineered a coup, replacing al-Kuwaiti with the CIA’s handpicked dictator, a convicted swindler named Husni al-Za’im. Al-Za’im barely had time to dissolve parliament and approve the American pipeline before his countrymen deposed him, 14 weeks into his regime…..

(CIA agent Rocky) Stone arrived in Damascus in April 1956 with $3 million in Syrian pounds to arm and incite Islamic militants and to bribe Syrian military officers and politicians to overthrow al-Kuwaiti’s democratically elected secularist regime….

But all that CIA money failed to corrupt the Syrian military officers. The soldiers reported the CIA’s bribery attempts to the Ba’athist regime. In response, the Syrian army invaded the American Embassy taking Stone prisoner. Following harsh interrogation, Stone made a televised confession to his roles in the Iranian coup and the CIA’s aborted attempt to overthrow Syria’s legitimate government….(Then) Syria purged all politicians sympathetic to the U.S. and executed them for treason.” (Politico)

See how history is repeating itself? It’s like the CIA was too lazy to even write a new script, they just dusted off the old one and hired new actors.

Fortunately, Assad –with the help of Iran, Hezbollah and the Russian Airforce– has fended off the effort to oust him and install a US-stooge. This should not be taken as a ringing endorsement of Assad as a leader, but of the principal that global security depends on basic protections of national sovereignty, and that the cornerstone of international law has to be a rejection of unprovoked aggression whether the hostilities are executed by one’s own military or by armed proxies that are used to achieve the same strategic objectives while invoking plausible deniability. The fact is, there is no difference between Bush’s invasion of Iraq and Obama’s invasion of Syria. The moral, ethical and legal issues are the same, the only difference is that Obama has been more successful in confusing the American people about what is really going on.

And what’s going on is regime change: “Assad must go”. That’s been the administration’s mantra from the get go. Obama and Co are trying to overthrow a democratically-elected secular regime that refuses to bow to Washington’s demands to provide access to pipeline corridors that will further strengthen US dominance in the region. That’s what’s really going on behind the ISIS distraction and the “Assad is a brutal dictator” distraction and the “war-weary civilians in Aleppo” distraction. Washington doesn’t care about any of those things. What Washington cares about is oil, power and money. How can anyone be confused about that by now? Kennedy summed it up like this:

“We must recognize the Syrian conflict is a war over control of resources indistinguishable from the myriad clandestine and undeclared oil wars we have been fighting in the Mid-East for 65 years. And only when we see this conflict as a proxy war over a pipeline do events become comprehensible.”

That says it all, don’t you think?

MIKE WHITNEY lives in Washington state. He is a contributor to Hopeless: Barack Obama and the Politics of Illusion (AK Press). Hopeless is also available in a Kindle edition. He can be reached at [email protected].

(Republished from Counterpunch by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: Syria 
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  1. The fact that the majority of my fellow Americans are too stupid to see that the media lies constantly and that our government is run by deplorable psychopaths (including Hillary) made me seriously consider expatriating and renouncing my citizenship. In the meantime, the CIA, DEA, etc., have managed to screw up several of the countries I was considering moving to. My only hope now is that the Alt-Right can overthrow this mess without turning this country into a police state or dictatorship.

    • Replies: @woodNfish
    , @Cato
  2. Okay, it’s about pipelines. But it’s also a war for Israel.

    Israel wants Assad removed so as to isolate Hezbollah.

    • Replies: @Randal
    , @Anonymous
  3. So America (the Great Satan) fomented a war in Syria so the Saudis could sell oil and gas to Europe?

    Nah. I don’t buy it. Building a pipeline is the most those bogeyman “oil giants” could get out of the deal, and building a pipe just isn’t all that lucrative. Smaller companies do it all the time, without fanfare, and without all that much profit, either. Go to eia.gov (or just Google it) and look at the various pipelines under construction.

    Better story: Syria has a sick, sick culture. It has been ruled most recently by the Assad family, who are bloody gangsters (and users of WMDs against their own people, just like Saddam Hussein). Like the Iraqi culture, it took a bloody gangster to keep a lid on things. But people eventually got sick of living under a remote bloody gangster and wanted a local guy, one of their own. So every little corner of Syrian society appears to be flying the flag of some local mob of Islamofascist torturers and killers, and there are virtually no good guys to follow. The few that they had — the Christians — have been violently run out of Syria, leaving behind only the worst sort of people, all vying against one another to become the next ruler in their own private third-world hellhole.

    That isn’t America’s fault, dude. It’s just one more country living under the green flag of The Religion of Peace.

  4. woodNfish says:
    @Fidelios Automata

    Sure, amerikans are stupid, but that none of this information is readily available or taught in school. Our government controlled education and media keeps us in the dark. Amerikans are the most propagandized country in the world. My wife and I have also considered leaving the US for our retirement. Our reservations include distance from family and grandchildren when we finally get some.

  5. @The Grate Deign

    “The few that they had — the Christians — have been violently run out of Syria, leaving behind only the worst sort of people, all vying against one another to become the next ruler in their own private third-world hellhole.”

    Dude, you need a reality check … Do you really think Iraq and Syria kept all those Christian (and Jewish for that matter) enclaves around so they could persecute them over time.

    The last vestiges of Christianity in the region were in those countries in relatively large numbers until the US chased Saddam out and started the push to eliminate Assad. By the time the US gets done with Iran, it will have also destroyed one of the largest Jewish communities in the region but outside Israel.

    There might be issues with the Religion of Peace, but they were relatively contained until the US started screwing with the region.

    • Agree: CalDre
    • Replies: @in the middle
  6. Talha says:

    Wow – great article Mr. Whitney, I did not know about that angle in the bigger picture.

  7. CalDre says:
    @The Grate Deign

    Yeah, sure, it’s Islam’s fault. Never mind that all this brutality is funded by the US through its proxy satanist House of Saud ally in Saudi Arabia, which pushes a non-Islamic cult called “Wahhabism” and radicalizes innocent young children throughout the world with their terrorist training centers disguised as madrassas (Islamic schools). All funded by the US (who, incidentally, along with UK, put and keep the House of Saud in power).

    On the other hand, the US is the peaceful country. Well, after stealing and cultivating the land it has by genociding the Indians and enslaving the Africans, and some wars of aggression against Mexico, Spain, England, and numerous Indian tribes, then all was cool …. Except for this ridiculously long list of “military interventions”.

    That long list are just the known, admitted ones. It excludes legions of “black ops” by the CIA and affiliated war criminals, as well as coups, color revolutions and death squads run by puppet tinpot dictators.

    No, frankly, the US is the most violent, aggressive and rogue nation in the last 100 years by a long shot.

    And the violence in the Middle East, as much as it is fomented and encouraged from the outside, pales in comparison to the “Christian” violence of WW I and WW II or the “atheist” violence of the Bolsheviks or the Maoists, when, incidentally, the weapons were less powerful than they are today.

    All in all, you definitely do sound like a worshipper of the Great Satan. Keep hating the Muslims, the victims of your Great Satan and its hate-mongering, warmongering and destruction.

  8. @CalDre

    What is the deal with the “hate” meme these days? Can’t you guys think of anything more creative than to accuse people of being haters?

    • Replies: @CalDre
  9. CalDre says:
    @The Grate Deign

    [Syrians want a] local mob of Islamofascist torturers and killers, and there are virtually no good guys to follow. The few that they had — the Christians — have been violently run out of Syria, leaving behind only the worst sort of people, all vying against one another to become the next ruler in their own private third-world hellhole.

    If this isn’t one of the most hateful, idiotic things ever written about a people, I don’t know what is. Are you so consumed by your hate you don’t even see it?

    So let’s reverse the shoe so maybe you can get it: “Americans want a local mob of thug torturers and killers, and there are no good guys to follow. The few that they had – the Native Americans – have been violently suppressed and sent into concentration camps, leaving only the worst sort of people, all vying against one another to become the next ruler in their own private hellhole.” I guess only someone who truly loves America would write that, yes? Or maybe you would accuse the author of being anti-American, a hater?

    From your comment, I sense I am not the only one to have noticed what a hateful (and utterly clueless – though these things almost always go together) bigot you are.

  10. Diogenes says:
    @The Grate Deign

    Mike Whitney always writes a common sense analysis of current political issues; in this case, he was supporting Kennedy Jr”s analysis in Politico, a thesis also suggested by many other eminent political analyst. He also explains why the American Syria policy was undertaken; to cut Iran out exporting gas to Europe and to keep Qatari gas denominated in $US.
    P.S.
    [I don’t know why you bother to comment here when your comments are so dumb and offensive we’ll know to skip them in the future, they are just a waste of our time to read them.]

    • Replies: @RobinG
  11. Talha says:
    @CalDre

    “The trolls, feed them not.” – Yoda

    • Replies: @utu
    , @Anonymous
  12. We’re sending blenders because sending weapons only added to the troubles!

  13. Alden says:
    @CalDre

    We didn’t genocide the Indians. There were no more than one million Indians living in what is now the United States in 1500 AD

    There are now about three million. So they have increased since Whites arrived.
    America is no worse than any other empire. We justify everything we by the pretense we are helping the nations we invade. I only wish we would take tribute from them instead we give the elites of the invaded nations the taxpayers money

    Q. What is foreign aid?
    A. Direct deposit for dictators.
    B. A mass transfers of funds from the first world working class to third fourth and fifth world wealthy elites.

    • Agree: Ace
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    , @CalDre
    , @AndrewR
  14. utu says:
    @Talha

    “to cut Iran out exporting gas to Europe and to keep Qatari gas denominated in $US.” – I do not believe that this was the main reason for destabilizing Syria. It could have been used as an argument for some participants but the plan goes back to Israel and then PNAC. In 2003 when tank columns were approaching Bagdad many wondered whether they turn right to go to Teheran or left to go to Damascus. The propaganda on the involvement of Syria in helping Iraq suggested that the turn left was more likely. The purpose is plain and simple and it has nothing to do with oil. War on Iraq had nothing to dow with oil. All Arab countries that were Soviet client states were to be destabilized. Why? Because only they could pose a thread to Israel. Turn them to chaos and sectarian fighting that will last for generations and Israel does not have to worry. War on Iraq, Libya and now Syria are the greatest evils perpetrated in 21 century.

  15. RobinG says:
    @Diogenes

    The analysis of Whitney, Kennedy, etc. is good but incomplete. Behind the preference for one pipeline over another lies the animosity of the US and Israeli towards Iran, of the US towards Russia, and (as Emblematic said at #2) of Israel towards Assad and Hezbollah.

    [GD is a known waster.]

  16. @CalDre

    satanist House of Saud ally in Saudi Arabia, which pushes a non-Islamic cult called “Wahhabism”

    I read somewhere that the house of Saud, is descendant of the Talmudists expelled from Spain, by Queen Isabella, who were received by the Ottomans with glee. So was Ataturk.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  17. @The Alarmist

    Unfortunately, most of CHURCHIANITY in America has become so Zionized, that it is difficult to distinguish synagogues from Churches, thus CHURCHIANITY. And believers think that churchianity is guiding them, and they believe anything churchianity’s telechurchies tell them. The NT is the most unknown Scripture there is. churchians, and I am creating a new word I guess, go on in their daily lives all happy and dandy, because their churchie preacher tells them that all is well, and ok.
    I am amazed when I read this passage, and tremble thinking that the so called believers were to know this, but churchianity has forgotten it, and seek the way of the ‘world’ cosmos in Greek.

    43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

    So here, you believer, is your guiding light.

  18. Randal says:
    @Emblematic

    Okay, it’s about pipelines. But it’s also a war for Israel.

    Israel wants Assad removed so as to isolate Hezbollah.

    Always my problem with the overly simplistic “it’s about the oil/gas” arguments like this one.

    They are generally correct, insofar as they correctly identify oil and control of oil flows as one major motivating factor in the lone superpower’s foreign policy (as this one is correct, to that extent), but they are also invariably incorrect because they ignore other often equally important factors. Few major US regime strategic policies on this scale ever happen without their being advocated by a coalition of major US and regional interest groups, and oil interests are only one of those groups, as oil is only one of a number of strategic factors taken into account by the US regime itself.

    For sure, the other major factor in the ongoing regime change attempt by the US and its cronies in Syria is the desire to replace the Syrian government with one regarded as less inconvenient by Israel (especially) and by Saudi Arabia. Israel has tried to keep its involvement secret by pretending it is neutral on the issue of whether Assad should stay or go, but the evidence of Israel’s desperate need to see Assad gone is clear for close observers. It’s quite a useful “tell” issue in online discussions, as one can quickly identify the most dishonest Israeli partisans by observing those who are obviously well informed on regional issues but who insist that Israel doesn’t care whether Assad stays or goes.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
    , @The Alarmist
  19. It’s grown very tiresome to see “America” or the “US” referred to as if it were a monolith with a group mind; the same goes for such references to any other nation state. It’s the governments and the interests that control them that create aggressive foreign policies, not John Q. Public.

    Then too there is the delusion that US clandestine agencies have great power over the destinies of other nations if those nations choose to vote out or toss out failed leftist governments whereas if a failed rightist government is voted out or tossed out it’s because of a “victory” by popular demand, because only leftists are “victims” of always-scheming bureaucrats at clandestine agencies. I’m a permanent resident of a South American country and have been for quite some time. Native SA friends in other countries keep in touch and I visit them from time to time, noting changes taking place since governments changed. Waiting to see what happens in Venezuela when the locals have finally had enough.

    Chaos in the Middle East is in my opinion more attributable to protection of Zionist interests than to the oil interests, but hard evidence or either point of view is hard to come by.

    • Agree: Che Guava
  20. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Secret cables and reports by the U.S., Saudi and Israeli intelligence agencies indicate that the moment Assad rejected the Qatari pipeline, military and intelligence planners quickly arrived at the consensus that

    Assad found yet one more creative way to run into danger. The other tried way was to do trade with currency other than the dollar, which is what Ghaddafi and Saddam had started to do or were starting to do.

  21. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Montefrío

    They all agree on what you say, but since John Q. Public. means nothing to anybody they speak as if the ruling circles and powers of the country are the country.
    This is nothing more than a semantic disagreement or misunderstanding.

  22. Randal says:
    @Montefrío

    Then too there is the delusion that US clandestine agencies have great power over the destinies of other nations if those nations choose to vote out or toss out failed leftist governments whereas if a failed rightist government is voted out or tossed out it’s because of a “victory” by popular demand, because only leftists are “victims” of always-scheming bureaucrats at clandestine agencies.

    I agree that what you describe is a commonplace and very irritating leftist elite trope in societies of the US sphere.

    But on the other hand imo it’s also annoying when apologists for the US regime (and for the American people, who allow their government to misbehave globally) pretend it’s somehow unrealistic to point out that the US regime has great power to interfere in the affairs of other nations, and regularly does so with massive effects (admittedly often not the effects the aforementioned US regime desired, or claimed to desire). When all is said and done, the US is still the lone superpower with complete military superiority over all rivals and until recently by far the biggest economy in the world, and it also counts much of the rest of the developed world as members, to varying degrees of subordination and of enthusiasm, of its wider sphere of influence. That might be approaching a change, with the rise of China, but from the early 1990s until very recently the US has been as close to a de facto world government as the world has ever yet seen.

    [Note, I’m not accusing you of doing that. Your comment just reminded me of the numerous occasions when US apologists have tried to pretend, for instance, that events in Iraq can’t possibly be the US regime’s fault, because it somehow isn’t powerful enough to affect events on that scale.]

    • Replies: @Montefrío
  23. @The Grate Deign

    U.S. Policy in Syria: An Interview with VA Senator Richard Black
    pretty good interview with a few quibbles

    h/t RobinG https://www.unz.com/emargolis/us-vs-us-in-syria/#comment-1568286
    Steinberg, Sen. Black’s interviewer, is a very courageous and persistent journalist and seeker-of-truth.

  24. @Randal

    Well, I can promise you that I’m far from being a US apologist! I emigrated for the final time in 1998 when the handwriting on the wall had already begun flashing in stroboscopic neon. Granted, it’s only right and proper that any nation acts to protect and advance its national interest, but within limits, preferably limits not to be determined by political puppets of financial interests who in fact are frequently subversive with respect to the interests of the national population at large: John Q Public and family.

    Down here, Juan Q appears to have grown tired of the tired false promises of the left and the corrupt warmed-over revolutionaries who spouted them. From what I know, the US had little or no influence in the rightward political changes that took place in Chile, Perú, Argentina or Colombia. Three of those four are prospering; the jury’s still out on Argentina. No US interference is necessary in Venezuela, the poster-boy for failed leftism; the prattling president is driving the national bus straight into the sea.

    China is already making its presence felt in South America and aside from the investments, it is not a particularly welcome presence. One wishes more North Americans would emigrate to South America, but unlike up there, these countries have fairly strict immigration requirements and if you don’t speak the dominant national language (Spanish or Portuguese), you’ll simply have to learn it, because no nations here bend over backwards to accommodate legal immigrants.

  25. Rehmat says:

    Another western propaganda B.S coming out of Mike Whitney.

    Syria doesn’t have oil or gas for US to loot. The US’s largest oil supplier is Canada and Latin America. So why would the US be interested in running a pipeline through Syria while it can ship Saudi Arabian and UAE oil to Haifa oil refinery via Egypt?

    The US and its poodle played a similar propaganda (Caspian Sea oil) to invade and destroy Afghanistan and destabilize only Muslim nuclear power Pakistan. The US has also stalled the 1990s India’s project of a oil pipeline through Pakistan for Iranian oil supply.

    All American wars in the Muslim world are proxy wars for the Zionist entity.

    “Israel sees Islam as the greatest danger to its dominance over the Middle East, itself built on cruelty, violation and oppression,” – Professor Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi (Haifa University) in his book ‘The Israeli Connection: Who Arms Israel and Why?’

    https://rehmat1.com/2010/07/24/should-islamic-republic-trust-india/

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  26. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:
    @The Grate Deign

    The Obama Administration and the Clinton Crime Family don’t care about democracy…Assad could have been a thug to his hearts content along as long as he did bigness with the Mega-corporate owned US.

    You want war with Conservative Orthodox Christian Russia….and this means thermonuclear mass murder..

    The Obama Administration has invaded, ocuupied a soverign nation….this is a major War Crime…….Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton must be indicted for War Crimes.

  27. @in the middle

    And you believe what you “read somewhere”? Why?

    And you think it important and makes a point worth conveying to others? What point? Why important?

  28. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:
    @CalDre

    Of course , Noam Chomsky leftists give us the usual sob story about the “Noble” American Injun….while Noam Chomsky grills stripped bass in the summertime for his Jewish academic comrades on his Wellsfleet multimillion $$$$ estate on Cope Code….Cope Code…doesn’t it belong to the Pequots?

    God how I hate leftists!!!

    • Replies: @edNels
  29. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:
    @The Grate Deign

    The Obama Administration and the Clinton Crime Family don’t care about democracy…Assad could have been a thug to his hearts content along as long as he did bigness with the Mega-corporate owned US.

    You want war with Conservative Orthodox Christian Russia….and this means thermonuclear mass murder..

    The Obama Administration has invaded, ocuupied a soverign nation….this is a major War Crime…….Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton must be indicted for War Crimes.

  30. Even before the fracking revolution I found it hard to see that oil could explain rational US interest in interfering in the ME. At least the pipeline explanation for destabilising Assad makes some kind of sense – even if a bad idea. The Robert Kennedy quotes, if genuine, add considerable plausibility to the story of how US policy went so badly wrong.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  31. Che Guava says:
    @Randal

    There is ample evidence for the Israeli interest in Project Mayhem in their neighboring countries and beyond, and for the Israel lobby in the US pushing for the same goal.

    It is easy to find.

    If you start from a search for ‘Project for a New American Century’ (Israel lobby production), you will also find links to earlier Israeli documents along the same lines.

    Justin Raimondo’s, among others, comments on this were very informative for me.

    Not to mention the record of anti-Syria terrorist maniacs being patched up in Israeli hospitals, much more.

    None of the above, nor the ‘much more’ is from conspiracy theory sites.

    I can only guess that you are very young and not very inquisitive, are stupid, or are intentionally purveying a false PoV.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Randal
  32. Che Guava says:

    Mr. Whitney,

    I generally appreciate your writing, but you miss the central point with this one.

  33. @CalDre

    I’ll take that for a “no.”

    • Replies: @CalDre
  34. @The Grate Deign

    Hasbara.

    THe Ba’athist regimes in Syria and Iraq were surprisingly liberal for states in that part of the world – on non-political issues that didn’t affect the rulers or the party – and very protective of minority ethnic and religious groups, except Jews who proved to be essentially an Israeli fifth column. The Iraqi regime’s leadership included Christians and other minorities. Saadam’s attacks on minorities only began after the first Gulf War and largely as a paranoid response to what the Ba’athist rulers suspected were future US intentions. (Hint: the US encouraged and supplied, while it was convenient, the first Shia revolt against the secular Ba’athist regime.) The Syrian regime relied on a coalition of religious and ethnic minorities to stay in power. They were highly protective of Christians, Alawites, Druze, Shia, etc.

    It was actually the US-sponsored Sunni terrorist groups that began massacring these people. As a shocking aftermath, these ethnic and religious minorities, the pathetic victims of the USA’s cruel intervention, are only a very, very small fraction of the “refugees” from Syria whom Merkel, Obama and their merry crews are inviting into Europe and America. The vast majority of these Syrian “refugees” are Sunnis, whose ethnic group whose members have been massacring their minority neighbors. The only country gaining in a big way from this mess is Israel, although the Gulf States may pick up some pipeline related crumbs and the USA may once again get a chance to demonstrate its power to ruthlessly forward Israeli interests in the Middle East.

  35. @Montefrío

    Kermit Roosevelt/CIA took out Mosadegh

    Vicki “Fuck the EU” Nuland with backing by Hillary took out the legitimate, democratically (certified by USA and EU) lergitimate government of Ukraine

    Hillary arranged the overthrow of Libya’s until then stable government.

    These are only a small number that I recall off the top of my head.

    The overthrows and interventions in South and Latin America and the Caribbean have been, if not innumerable, at least of such numbers that not even an expert in the field is likely to remember them all.

    Defending the indefensible is wasting your and our time.

  36. It looks like a rationale motive for having Qatar and KSA acting against Syria but actually I think it is just there for hidding the fact that the war against Syria is made at the behest of Israel.
    The Saudi and Qatar families know that the Zionists control the world finance and that their huge wealth could be confiscated any day at the request of the zionists. That is why they are marching along the will of Israel forgetting the Palestinians and most of the Arabs world : Libya, Irak and Syria. Today they are destroying the Yemen to secure Israel’s access out of the red sea. They are even trying to trigger a war against Iran, a religious war, the worst kind of war, to annihilate Iran as Iran is the corner stone of the resistance to Israel.
    It is not a story of pipe line and money , it is another zionist’s crime! For the Saudi and the Qatar families,religion is a tool and not a faith!

  37. n230099 says:

    “The conflict in Syria is not a war in the conventional sense of the word. “

    Since ‘war’ has not been declared by anyone of consequence for over 75 years, really all there’s been are silly ‘conflicts’. The sad part is that we still have them because people are too stupid to just say F-U I won’t participate.

  38. Alden says:
    @Che Guava

    Excellent. I was going to mention PNAC but you did first. American century indeed. They want an Israel century

    • Agree: Che Guava
  39. Randal says:
    @Che Guava

    I can only guess that you are very young and not very inquisitive, are stupid, or are intentionally purveying a false PoV.

    I can only assume, charitably, that you didn’t bother to read my comment, to which you claim to be replying.

    That’s your prerogative and your problem. I’ll leave you to go back and do so, or not, as you wish. An apology from you is likewise optional – merely a matter of your own personal integrity or lack thereof.

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Che Guava
  40. Max Gibs says: • Website
    @The Grate Deign

    Ladies and gentlemen, your finalist for the PNAC “Clean Break Youth Outreach Initiative,” The Grate Design!

    “Assad must go, dude”

    • LOL: Talha
  41. KA says:

    The idea of fomenting a Sunni-Shiite civil war to weaken the Syrian and Iranian regimes in order to maintain control of the region’s petrochemical supplies was not a novel notion in the Pentagon’s lexicon. A damning 2008 Pentagon-funded Rand report proposed a precise blueprint for what was about to happen. That report observes that control of the Persian Gulf oil and gas deposits will remain, for the U.S., “a strategic priority” that “will interact strongly with that of prosecuting the long war.” Rand recommended using “covert action, information operations, unconventional warfare” to enforce a “divide and rule” strategy. “The United States and its local allies could use the nationalist jihadists to launch a proxy campaign” and “U.S. leaders could also choose to capitalize on the sustained Shia-Sunni conflict trajectory by taking the side of the conservative Sunni regimes against Shiite empowerment movements in the Muslim world … possibly supporting authoritative Sunni governments against a continuingly hostile Iran.”

    http://www.politico.eu/article/why-the-arabs-dont-want-us-in-syria-mideast-conflict-oil-intervention/

    For Americans to really understand what’s going on, it’s important to review some details about this sordid but little-remembered history. During the 1950s, President Eisenhower and the Dulles brothers — CIA Director Allen Dulles and Secretary of State John Foster Dulles — rebuffed Soviet treaty proposals to leave the Middle East a neutral zone in the Cold War and let Arabs rule Arabia. Instead, they mounted a clandestine war against Arab nationalism — which Allen Dulles equated with communism — particularly when Arab self-rule threatened oil concessions. They pumped secret American military aid to tyrants in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon favoring puppets with conservative Jihadist ideologies that they regarded as a reliable antidote to Soviet Marxism. At a White House meeting between the CIA’s director of plans, Frank Wisner, and John Foster Dulles, in September 1957, Eisenhower advised the agency, “We should do everything possible to stress the ‘holy war’ aspect,” according to a memo recorded by his staff secretary, Gen. Andrew J. Goodpaster.

    http://www.politico.eu/article/why-the-arabs-dont-want-us-in-syria-mideast-conflict-oil-intervention/

    (Robert F. Kennedy, US Attorney General.

  42. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Mosaddegh: no disagreement. A late mentor of mine took part in that and had much to say about it, none of it good. It was a Brit oil interests deal. My guess is that few John Q Publics of the time could have found Iran on a map.

    Nuland and HRC answer to George Soros and Co. Indefensible meddling as far as I’m concerned. Certainly not defending it. I’d like to see the US pull out of the UN and close military bases in Europe. Ukraine is historically within the Russian regional sphere of interest and the US and EU have no legitimate claim to meddle there.

    Gaddafi should have been left in place, just as should have been the case with Saddam. I place them in the Zionist interference category with energy interest backing. Opposed to both.

    Central and South America (together they make up Latin America) fall under the purview of the Monroe Doctrine and intervention there, while not necessarily in the national interest (the Arbenz coup comes to mind) is more easily understandable (Chile, for example). The Soviets and their host-country guerillas were all over the place in the 60s-70s and it would not have been in the US national interest to simply look away. The US was not involved in helping Perú rid itself of the Maoist mad dog guerilla Abimael Guzmán and his Sendero Luminoso, who at one point had effective non-elected control of a good part of the country. Lori Berenson (an American), however, believed that shehad the right to ally herself with the MRTA, another group a la Sendero, but hostile to it, only managing to seize the Japanese embassy and murder some gays and transvestites.

    I’m not “defending” interventions that benefit alien interests or corporate interests. I’m for defending the territorial integrity of the USA and believe every nation has the right to do the same. Sorry if you believe I’ve wasted time in simply stating the obvious: all nations should have governments that work to defend the national interests of their citizens, not the interests of special interest groups, be they corporate or foreign.

  43. KA says:

    Eishenhower and RAND corporation got their wish satiated

    in IS ,Deash,al Nusra , al Jabra . Next time once they will run out of al and name it :al America to
    and they won’t be missing a speck of truth

    ” Gen. Michael Flynn, who headed up the DIA when the document was produced and who was forced out by the interventionists in the administration. Here is what Flynn told Al-Jazeera in an extensive interview:

    Al-Jazeera: “You are basically saying that even in government at the time you knew these groups were around, you saw this analysis, and you were arguing against it, but who wasn’t listening?
    Flynn: I think the administration.
    Al-Jazeera: So the administration turned a blind eye to your analysis?
    Flynn: I don’t know that they turned a blind eye, I think it was a decision. I think it was a willful decision.
    Al-Jazeera: A willful decision to support an insurgency that had Salafists, Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood?
    Flynn: It was a willful decision to do what they’re doing.”

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2016/06/16/something-going-worse-thought/

    • Replies: @KA
  44. Che Guava says:
    @Randal

    I scanned your various recent posts, can’t see a reason to apolngise for anything.

    If you feel so strongly righteous, please explain, you have *copy* and *paste* at your disposal, but you may not have worked that out.

    • Replies: @Randal
  45. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Recall that Victoria Nuland Kagan mentioned that “Jeff Feltman at UN” is on board with their plans for Ukraine.

    Timeline: Secretary Clinton’s First 100 Days
    (Clinton was appointed SoS in Nov. 2008)
    http://findit.state.gov/search?affiliate=dos_stategov&page=2&query=jeff+feltman&search-button=Search
    Ambassador Jeff Feltman and the NSC’s Dan Shapiro traveled to the region and discussed issues of mutual concern with Syrian Foreign Minister Walid … http://www.state.gov/30163.htm

    In 2009 Feltman testified before the State Dept. Committee that monitors international religious freedom. Iran was under scrutiny; Feltman alluded to — but refused to identify specifically lest he “endanger” them — NGOs that State Dept was funding in Iran. The so-called Green Revolution was almost certainly an attempt to Color Revolution Iran and disrupt Iran’s June 2009 elections http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/world/middleeast/14iran.html?_r=0
    When that failed, western media declared that Iran’s election was corrupt, fraudulent, rigged, etc., none of which charges stuck. Feltman did not get his money’s worth out of those unnamed NGOs.

    In 2011, in the immediate aftermath of the immolation of the fruit peddler in Tunisia and the eruption of “Arab Spring,” Clinton dispatched Feltman to oversee the situation
    http://www.voanews.com/a/us-sends-senior-envoy-to-tunisia-114518994/133979.html

    In the first quarter of 2012 Feltman moved from U S State Department to the United Nations Department of Political Affairs

    At the end of 2014, UAE announced US$ 500,000 first-time contribution to UN Department of Political Affairs.

    Five years on, the states that rose in response to Arab Spring are in turmoil;
    https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2016/01/arab-spring-five-years-on/
    the list looks suspiciously like the one Wes Clarke says he got from Paul Wolfowitz, naming seven states the US intended to overthrow over a projected five years.

    Tunisia, where Arab Spring — with Feltman in charge — got its start, is now ISIS’s Number One Source for Foreign Fighters

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
  46. @SolontoCroesus

    CORRECTION: Feltman’s testimony before State Dept of International Religious Freedom was in February 2008, not 2009.
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?204135-1/human-rights-religious-freedom-iran

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
  47. Randal says:
    @Che Guava

    No need to “scan my various recent posts”. Just reading the one you were ostensibly replying to, then rereading your own post, should be more than sufficient to recognise that your lecture on Israeli and Israel lobby involvement in pushing the regime change operation in Syria was merely reinforcing what I had written, not in any way contradicting it.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  48. KA says:
    @KA

    Next time,instead of having confusing and decontextualized misleading names like al Quida,al Nusra,al Jebra, al Fatah ,al Chechnya ,America should just call them al America . al America sounds better .It captures the essence of the origin and the hidden control .

  49. Durruti says:

    Nice article by Mike Whitney.

    Specially appreciate the quotes from and links to Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

    I am sure there are additional other causes to explain the attempt to overthrow President Assad of Syria, and to decimate his nation. The Zionist Land Thieves are in this fascist terror business – in order to create their Eretz Imperialist Mordor. They have, through their controlled puppet, the US of America, disrupted and dispersed the Arab Nations of Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, and Libya. They are attempting a disruption of Egypt, although with less success.

    In Syria, the Land Thieves are directly involved in the terrorist Butchery. The ISIS, which has never attacked the Zionist entity, is but a branch of the Zionist Haganah.

    As Robert F. Kennedy Jr. knows, the first modern ‘Arab Spring’ occurred in America, – Dallas, on November 22, 1963. The last Constitutional American Government was overthrown in a coup d’etat, and nothing has been the same since. His family has suffered grievously from Zionist MOSSAD/CIA terror.

    The Only Road!

    Restore our Democratic Republic!

  50. @Montefrío

    Ukraine is historically within the Russian regional sphere of interest and the US and EU have no legitimate claim to meddle there.

    Russia has no legitimate claim to meddle in Ukraine. No outsider has such a claim, least of all Putin.

  51. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Nuland and Shrillary had nothing in the Ukraine uprising that led to Yanukovuch giving the Berkut orders to kill protesters, then running for his buddy Putin’s asylum when it looked like he was going to be brought to book for his crimes. When Yanokovich left the country he abandoned his office and Parliament legally ousted him as a result.

    It was not a coup by any measure, and the Ukrainians did it all by themselves. They aren’t children as you suppose, and appealing to conspiracy theories does you no credit.

  52. annamaria says:

    Israel is getting more the US-taxpayers money to commit more crimes… http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/us_to_give_israel_38_billion_over_10_years_20160916
    How much money have been extracted from German citizenry by Jews for the atrocities committed by Germans during the WWII? This is just a fraction: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/germany-to-pay-772-million-euros-in-reparations-to-holocaust-survivors-a-902528.html
    The precedent is set.
    It seems that the US/EU Israel-firsters and the greedy Mielkovsky (Netanyahu) are going to enter the history is the worst enemies of Jewish people. Jews must pay for the atrocities committed in the Middle East against both native Palestinians and the victims of Yinon plan, Syrians and Libyans.

  53. Randal says:
    @Quartermaster

    Russia has no legitimate claim to meddle in Ukraine. No outsider has such a claim, least of all Putin.

    Funny, your government seems to think it has a right to meddle there, and in every other country in the world.

    What else did you think all that State Dept and black budget money is spent on, to say nothing of all the NGO and “humanitarian” money?

    • Agree: CalDre
  54. Randal says:
    @Quartermaster

    Nuland and Shrillary had nothing in the Ukraine uprising

    Did you ever get round to asking your government to get explanations for the salaries and expenditures of all the State Dept goblins like Nuland who were in the Ukraine and generally swanning around the world “doing nothing” (as you would evidently like us to believe)?

    Did you ever get around to asking the saps who voted for US Senators McCain and Murphy what they thought of their elected representatives spending so much time in Ukraine whipping up mob violence and supposedly achieving “nothing” (according to you)?

    Maybe you think the best use of taxpayers’ money and elected and government officials’ time is “doing nothing”, which might be an arguable position, but it would be nice if you Yanks would at least make your government goblins do their nothing in your own country for a change.

    • Replies: @in the middle
  55. Anonymous [AKA "Alfred Schmuckarelli"] says:

    I should say “syrian refugees” are part of the deal. The 40%ish percentage of REAL syrian refugees that reach EU are coming from terrorist controlled areas of Syria. They travel through rebel held areas and turkish territory and hence are greenlighted by Turkey. A future in Germany/Sweden/Holland is the reward for having served (if you are an active rebel) the US/Gulf interests or a compensation if you were living in rebel controlled areas. This works whether you are or not succesful in removing Assad, since USA wants to deliver the message “a Lannister always pays his debts”.

    • Replies: @SolontoCroesus
    , @annamaria
  56. annamaria says:
    @Quartermaster

    “It was not a coup by any measure, and the Ukrainians did it all by themselves.”

    It was a coup: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/12/head-stratfor-private-cia-says-overthrow-yanukovych-blatant-coup-history.html
    What was that famous conversation between Nuland-Kagan and Pyatt about? – About forming Ukrainian government by the US State Dept. functionaries. https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/13/the-mess-that-nuland-made/
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
    Congratulations. Ukrainians have been treated like children indeed. Otherwise, would any proud nation had allowed another state to install a Georgian felon a governor of an important seaport (Odessa)? See also your Kolomojsky and Groysman, Poroschenko and his profitable chocolate manufacture in Russia, and the fraudulent Jaresko in charge of Ukrainian finances. https://consortiumnews.com/2015/11/10/how-ukraines-finance-chief-got-rich/
    Truth hurts, does not it?
    PS: Forbes listed Petro Poroshenko as the 130th richest Jew in the world, with $1.6b.
    http://theunhivedmind.com/UHM/ukraine-elects-president-with-secret-jewish-roots/

    • Replies: @in the middle
  57. @Alden

    Q. What is foreign aid?
    A. Direct deposit for dictators.
    B. A mass transfers of funds from the first world working class to third fourth and fifth world wealthy elites.

    All of the above and then some.

  58. @Anonymous

    In the video @ #23, Va Sen. Richard Black says that the vast majority of Syrians have not left Syria. They are internally displaced, but choose to remain in Syria.

    The “Syrian refugees” for whom Erdogan opened the gates to Europe are mostly non-Syrian.

    nb. What’s a Lannister?

  59. @Randal

    Let me play Devil’s advocate … there seems to be less upside for Israel to get rid of Assad, who is a somewhat non-threatening known entity, than to roll the dice with the unknown, e.g. Islamic State, assuming IS is not their creation, but even if it is, there is no way they can be sure they can control what they have unleashed. You also can’t help but notice that the flow of funds in the world tends to run from the US towards Israel, so while they have strong advocates in the US, they don’t seem to have as many strings to pull as other parties in the region. Saudi Arabia, OTOH, has a long history of buying our top govt officials, and they have everything to gain from tossing Assad out and doing a pipeline deal with folks ideologically more aligned to them.

  60. @Quartermaster

    “Russia has no legitimate claim to meddle in Ukraine. “

    Look at it as a EurAsian Monroe Doctrine … Russia certainly has a legitimate claims to supervise the Ukranan situation while the US is actively influencing events there.

  61. @Quartermaster

    If you do believe all that gibberish, I do have a bridge in London to sell you.

  62. @annamaria

    Anna:

    Some people are predisposed to not believe the truth, even if you hit them in the face with it.

    ‘Most Jews do not like to admit it, but our god is Lucifer — so I wasn’t lying — and we are his chosen people. Lucifer is very much alive.’” Harold Rosenthal

    Most Jews and Christians don’t know this:

    The reason for anti Semitism is that Judaism is defined by Cabalism, a satanic cult whose aim is to possess humanity. Using central banking and Freemasonry as their instruments, Cabalist Jews have taken control of the world.

    So, it is not really antisemitism, but anti Luceferianism: the world versus Lucifer and his people! At the moment, they are wining!

  63. Anonymous [AKA "Kirk2NCC1701"] says:
    @Emblematic

    It’s not just about Hezbollah.

    More importantly, it’s about getting access to southern Syria, and (a) its Natgas fields, and (b) the existentially-critical access to and control of the waters of the river Jordan. Israel covets both, but its settler-farmers and its population need all that water for their own use, not the use of the Syrian population.

    With the war clearing out the Syrian population and making them Europe’s problem, and the world’s eyes and minds distracted by all these misdirections (the Magician’s Trick of Distraction & Action), Israel is free to quietly pursue its Agenda of the Oded Yinon (OY) Plan. You may want to research the OY Plan.

    What makes it even more brilliant, is that it is other countries (US, Russia, Qatar, KSA, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, the EU) who get to pay for all this and do the dirty work for them. Diabolically clever. It’s truly amazing how gullible and malleable all these non-Zionists truly are. Sad, but true.

  64. edNels says:
    @The Grate Deign

    I see below some old salts”are calling you a ”troll”,jhey that’s just a welcome thing…I ain’t got to that level yet.. but I see what your saying regardsthe mideast ///

    To me… it’s about land, and mostly about water.

    WATER. that iswhat Israel really needs,hell they can rule the f’n deserts..but water…is what is in short supply and what is needed

    This is world wide thing.. Clean drinkable water.

    But it is really pronounced there in the Mideast.

    • Replies: @Anonymous Nephew
    , @anon
  65. @Randal

    Mr. Randall:

    We are Arizonans, and we do have the right to be ignorant! And keep voting for McDevil, I mean McCain! Don’t you know? Here in AZ, we just keep sending that evil man over, and over to Congress, since we have not clue what he does, and in the TV commercials he looks cool, and smiley!

    I hope no one gets offended by my sarcasm.

  66. Didn’t Mearsheimer and Walt disprove a decade ago that oil wasn’t the main reason that the US has intervened in the Mideast after 2001. It’s like Mr. Whitney trying to revive this old mummy of an idea. he and Noam could make a good team.

    Here’s a hint for the uninformed about what is actually going on. Google up a picture of Israel’s flag. Notice the Star of David in the middle of it and then the blue stripes on the top and the bottom of it. The blue stripes signify the the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers in the east and the Nile River in the west. The area between these two blue stripes signifies the long standing idea of an Eretz (Greater) Israel. The idea of Israel controlling this area(and its water) goes all the way back to the origins of Zionism in the nineteenth century and in the Torah and Talmud long before that.

    The ultra orthodox Jews who are now increasingly influencing Israeli politics are absolutely fanatical about their support of this concept. The Left wing Israelis who provided a counter to it are simply leaving Israel in droves as the ultra orthodox increasingly flex their political and social muscles.

    It has never been to the benefit of the US to get involved in these Mideast Wars for no other reason than that wars are always just too costly and hence too inflationary. The US does it simply because it is required of it as a mere vassal state to Israel. (Google Mike Rivero’s essay: “All Wars Are Bankers’ Wars” for an eye opening explanation of how wars only benefit, in the end, banks and not the supposed victors of these wars.)

    Conclusion:
    Zionists and their forebearers have always hoped to congregate all of the world’s Jews together within one geographical entity and for this its needs far more territory and far more water water. Hence the necessity to include the Tigris and Euphrates and Nile Rivers within the borders of Eretz Israel. The resulting control of the oil in these lands is just icing on the cake.

    And it is for this concept alone that American soldiers and the native inhabitants of these countries die.

    Putin is now throwing big monkey wrench into what was thought to be a well laid plan. Hence all the hatred for him. I hope he employs a very good food taster.

    • Agree: Rurik
  67. annamaria says:
    @Anonymous

    Libyan refugees finally have a chance to learn about the main players (war criminals) that have been profitably active in destroying Libya: http://www.salon.com/2016/09/16/u-k-parliament-report-details-how-natos-2011-war-in-libya-was-based-on-lies/
    “…before the war, Libya had less of its population in poverty than the Netherlands. Libyans had access to free health care, education, electricity and interest-free loans… Today, Libya is home to the largest base of the genocidal extremist group ISIS outside of Iraq and Syria. Other Islamist groups seized large swaths of territory after the Libyan government was destroyed. “It is now clear that militant Islamist militias played a critical role in the rebellion from February 2011 onwards…” the Foreign Affairs Committee states clearly.”

    Moreover, Libya had a considerable gold & silver reserve that had been since stolen by the “humanitarian helpers” coming from France and the US. http://presscore.ca/the-u-s-nato-gold-heist-of-libya

    “Clinton’s correspondence reveals that the Americans were worried about Libya’s huge reserves of gold and oil. Their chief worry was that Gaddafi would use Libyan gold as the basis for a pan-African currency. Which would have fit beautifully into the proposed pan-African development bank whose goal was to turn sub-Saharan Africa, especially the African “Francophone” nations, into “tiger-states” of economic boom. These plans were seen to go against the interests of both the U.S. and also its vassal, France, which was eager to regain military/economic influence in its ex-colonies in Africa.”
    https://news.vice.com/article/libyan-oil-gold-and-qaddafi-the-strange-email-sidney-blumenthal-sent-hillary-clinton-in-2011
    Time to put Sarkozy and Obama&Clinton into prison for the heist and crimes against humanity.

  68. CalDre says:
    @Alden

    We didn’t genocide the Indians.

    If by “we” you mean you and I, I agree. It was the European settlers and the European and US governments that did it.

    There were no more than one million Indians living in what is now the United States in 1500 AD There are now about three million. So they have increased since Whites arrived.

    You have no way to substantiate that – it is Mooney’s old estimate that has been roundly critiqued. Estimates vary widely, but the “consensus” was around 10-12 million north of the Rio Grande around 1500. In 1900, the first time an accurate census was taken of Native Americans in the continental US, the population was < 250,000. If we go with an original number of 10 million, that's a population reduction of 97.5%. So, what "genocide" of a population in the millions do you know of that resulted in greater losses?

    In many ways, it is incorrect to put all Natives in the same basket. Native Americans consisted of a large number of tribes. Genocide is defined in the treaty as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such". If each different tribe is considered its own "nation" or "ethnicity", there are lots of groups that were entirely eliminated.

    But really the essence of an "ethnicity" is its culture and way of living. In this regard, the entirety of the pre-Columbus Native American population has been intentionally destroyed, as the culture of the few survivors was destroyed when they were ethnically cleansed placed in their concentration camps (for example: what Native American tribe today is nomadic and survives on buffalo, and everything that goes along with that?).

    America is no worse than any other empire.

    Probably not, but no better; and Empire is inherently evil as it inherently consists of war, destruction, oppression. Indeed all that the US accuses others of, in order to justify its wars, the US is far, far, far more guilty of. My point is that US rulers are much worse than any of Assad, Hussein, or Gaddafi.

    As to foreign aid, it is a scam and the vast bulk of it goes to political cronies (i.e., “campaign contributors”). This is how the scam works: US gives $100 million aid to X. X keeps $5 million and gives $95 million to a US corporation for “consulting”. The “consulting” corporation charges $300 / hr for some know-nothing recent Liberal Arts education grad who has never been to X, or its continent, to tell X how to make things better. The grad himself is paid about $20 / hr, the remainder goes to the political crony. It is a mistake to think that the money ends up in the Third World country – it doesn’t. It’s corporate welfare for the connected.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  69. @Montefrío

    I apologize for getting more aggressive than was called for. After reading your response I realize that our thinking on these issues is not that far apart. Now that Russia and China (although less so and much more a border line case) have morphed into nation-states leanings towards becoming republics, it’s easy to forget what a danger they were to world stability back when they were totalitarian, communist empires. A lot of the bad things the USA has gotten into were essentially poor reactions to soviet and PRC provocations. OTOH some bad soviet and PRC mis-behaviors were clearly reactions to US provocations.

    • Replies: @Montefrío
  70. @SolontoCroesus

    Thanks for the much more detailed background.

  71. CalDre says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Even before the fracking revolution I found it hard to see that oil could explain rational US interest in interfering in the ME.

    Is your presumption that the US acts in the “national interest”? I don’t see evidence of that.

    Oil can explain wars because the elite can (easily) make vast fortunes from oil. Fracking is expensive and hence not nearly as profitable as extracting oil from the oilfields in Libya or Iraq. For example it costs $10 / barrel to extract oil in Libya, but fracking may cost $30- $90 per barrel. The difference is all profit. Then there are lots of contracts to be handed out worth billions by whoever controls the oilfields. Moreover whoever controls the oilfields then has a very large say over the government of the country. Finally US control of the oilfields helps keep the petrodollar system alive, which is the basis of the US financial hegemony over the world (and this part is arguably at least a “national interest”).

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  72. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:
    @Quartermaster

    Conservative Orthodox Christian Russian People have a God given right and mandate to protect themselves from the violent psychopaths:the neocon Jew Nuland…The Irish Skank Samantha Powers….The Old Farting Adult diaper wearing Bulldyke fr0m Hell!!! Hillary Clinton…and the PSYCHOPATHICALLY greedy Jewish Oligarchs who were given Ukraine as a Chanuka present from the aforementioned cockroaches.

    What you are advocating is a pre-emptive nuclear first strike on the Conservative Orthodox Christian Russian People. Of course, Conservative Orthodox Christian Russia will thermonuclear annihilate Ashton Carter’s concrete bunker that he shares with the homo Secretary of the Army and his homo hairdresser husband a few minutes later.

    • Replies: @anon
  73. CalDre says:
    @Quartermaster

    Russia has no legitimate claim to meddle in Ukraine. No outsider has such a claim, least of all Putin.

    It depends what you consider a “legitimate claim”. The fact is Crimea and Eastern Ukraine are full of Russian citizens, many millions of them, who actually lived in Russia prior to the Bolshevik Revolution. The (Jewish) Bolsheviks however redrew a bunch of maps and placed parts of Western Russian in Ukraine (and later Ukrainian Kruschev put Crimea in Ukraine). At no time did the local populations ever agree to these changes.

    Israel claims the right to “defend” Jews living in Argentina, which was never ever part of Israel, the US claims the right to “defend” Americans anywhere in the world, why doesn’t Russia have the right to defend Russians living in what was (and should still be) Russia?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  74. CalDre says:
    @Quartermaster

    Yanukovuch giving the Berkut orders to kill protesters

    No such order was never given and indeed years after the event no proof even exists that the Berkut killed the protesters. The overwhelming evidence (and by overwhelming I mean completely overwhelming) is that the “opposition” shot those poor protesters. Why would they? Well, see what happened the next day. It’s called a false flag and it was the basis on which the coup plotters accomplished their coup.

    When Yanokovich left the country he abandoned his office and Parliament legally ousted him as a result.

    Fleeing from armed bandits attempting to kill you is not abandoning office in any meaning of the word. As to the Rada “ousting” him, there is a precise mechanism in the Ukrainian Constitution for impeachment. As this mechanism was in no way complied with, Yanukovych was never properly ousted.

    Where do you get such ridiculous lies? Oh, you must read Washington Post and New York Times, the neo-con warmongering and hate mongering propaganda organs of the Empire.

  75. edNels says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    STRIPED BASS!?

    Striped bass is the most over rated fish ever. Some asshole brought a barrel of them to the SFBay about in the turn of the century… I don’t suppose you or others here ever bothered to read some of Jack London… but he tells it, back in time… the Bay was full of fish, even in 1900’s… and that is after the hydraulic mining operations that put huge no’s of cubic miles of silt into this esturary pretty much ending life there.

    Striped Bass, it’s like other sport fish…like Pike… they eat all things… easy to catch with any lure… but as far as to eat they tough… and tastless, not a good dinner, tough, grainy and they are prone to diseases… I caught a few of them….. They have become nusuance in SF Bay and tributaries… and I believe they are predating what few salmonoids that still exist.

  76. Hepp says:

    But the United States is not doing the right thing in Syria. Arming, training and funding Islamic extremists — that have killed half a million people, displaced 7 million more and turned the country into an uninhabitable wastelands –is not the right thing. It is the wrong thing, the immoral thing. And the US is involved in this conflict for all the wrong reasons, the foremost of which is gas. The US wants to install a puppet regime in Damascus so it can secure pipeline corridors in the East, oversee the transport of vital energy reserves from Qatar to the EU, and make sure that those reserves continue to be denominated in US Dollars that are recycled into US Treasuries and US financial assets. This is the basic recipe for maintaining US dominance in the Middle East and for extending America’s imperial grip on global power into the future

    Interesting theory. That assumes that the US is actually acting in its interests. What is the motivation at the individual level? Why does Obama or Ash Carter personally benefit if Qatar builds a pipeline to the EU and then money is invested in US financial assets? They’ll be long out of office by the time such a long term plan materializes. How does all this make American decision makers richer or more powerful?

    Kennedy does not provide links to the claim that they started overthrowing Assad when he rejected a pipeline. Can anyone else?

  77. Max Payne says:

    Sure its about gas pipelines and maintaining security for Israel but the real prize is the weaponization of Islam. The 20-year game.

    Islam dominates through the Middle East and portions of Central and South East Asia. If China doesn’t play nice with America all the CIA has to do is activate its jihadis and start creating trouble in Western Chinese provinces. Russia understands this well and knows if Syria goes unchecked it will be a matter of time before southern Russia turns into a new jihad-istan.

    If the wrong clan or tribe should get a dominate position inside one of the royal families of Saudi Arabia or Qatar, well, we have jihadis to take care of that. Should any new nationalists in the Arab world think they can unite their country and use their resources for their own people will have to contend with international Islamists.

    India and Pakistan can be kept in check by playing both sides off each other considering both these nations are in full-retard mode all the time (how you could have nuclear weapons and still have the vast majority of your people defecate outdoors is beyond me; priorities I suppose).

    Europe will soon have its cohorts of jihadis to keep it in line for a very long time, NATO will find a new role in maintaining internal security.

    Democracy-in-a-box didn’t seem to work but jihad-in-a-box seems to be doing okay. A couple of snackbars, a handful of illiterate hydrophobic imams and two or three fatwas and you’ve got yourself a bonafide jihad.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  78. bluedog says:
    @Quartermaster

    I suppose you have proof that Yanukovuch ordered the killing of both the protesters and the police, which of course as usual you post concerning Russia and Putin never make much sense as you make up the facts to fit your twisted mind,and of course the $5 billion we invest in that regime change never happened just a figment of some ones imagination or over active mind .!!

  79. @Jus' Sayin'...

    Perhaps I didn’t express myself as well as I might have. You’re right: our thinking isn’t far apart. I’m 70, had family and friends in overseas postings, spent most of my adult life overseas and South America in the 70s, well, things could have turned out very badly. Unfortunately, the military dictatorships that stopped the commie stuff weren’t all that much better in some respects, but it’s true: the Soviet menace and Marxist model was truly a clear and present danger during that decade and beyond. Oddly enough, some of my closer Argentine friends were on the wrong side of the dirty war and were imprisoned or exiled by the Proceso. The cousin of a very close friend was killed, although he was no saint himself. As for Perú, although Abimael was a wild card and not truly Soviet supported, I spend time at a house three and a half blocks from Calle Tarata, where Sendero set off a horrific bomb that cost my lady friend’s brother the sight in one eye (his office was on that block) and she was walking to that house when it went off; maybe ten minutes earlier, we’d never have met, because she’d have gone up in smoke. The folks who lionize jackals like Che, Guzmán and their ideological inheritors simply don’t understand this continent as far as I’m concerned. I also spent 3 1/2 years in North Africa, but don’t believe myself qualified to comment on the zone. Don’t consider myself an “expert” on South America, but I do believe I know and understand it quite well, given that I’m bilingual, read a lot and know folks on both sides of the ideological divide and have SA family as well. I love it here and hope folks don’t fall prey to the globalists presently running the US. Still, I’ll take Pinochet over Castro, as did the Chileans, and would prefer to be under the US “umbrella” than that of China, a country now making important inroads down here.

  80. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Rehmat

    You can have different countries with different reasons conspire and work together on a mutual goal. The Sunnite world is not a strategic threat to Israel because they are a bunch of low-IQ tards. Israel is obsessed with Iran and Syria (and previously Saddam) because people with higher IQ can be a strategic threat.

  81. Svigor says:

    Grate Deign thinks the Christians in Syria are nice guys. LoL.

    On the other hand, the US is the peaceful country. Well, after stealing and cultivating the land it has by genociding the Indians and enslaving the Africans, and some wars of aggression against Mexico, Spain, England, and numerous Indian tribes, then all was cool …. Except for this ridiculously long list of “military interventions”.

    Lies are to leftism as lard is to Mexican cooking.

    Nobody “genocided” “the Indians.” In fact, “the Indians” is a far less real category than “the Palestinians” is. It’s a catch-all term created by western Academics to refer to people who were happily slaughtering and enslaving one another before whites showed up, and who went right on doing so after whites showed up (often teaming up with YT to do it).

    The truth is, the peoples on this continent were barely out of the Stone Age, at the time of contact. A great many lived by banditry. Murderous tribal warfare, rape, slavery, torture, and mutilation were commonplace. Once YT discovered their existence, it was guaranteed that somebody was going to civilize the continent. The Brits just made sure it wasn’t Russians or Chinese.

    And it was Africans (black Africans, to be specific) who enslaved all those Africans. YT had nothing to do with that. Really, it was a case of African slavers corrupting Europeans with their practices. There were plenty of backward peoples around for Europeans to “enslave” if that was their thing. But they didn’t. They bought what the African slavers were selling, is all. Really, the institution of slavery in the modern period belongs to sub-Saharan Africans, and nobody else. They own it. Who else was barbarous enough to enslave people of their own race and sell them to people of another?

    USG behavior in west Asia is a result of facts on the ground, plus an unholy alliance of organized Jewry, the military-industrial complex, and big energy. The facts on the ground are that west Asia is full of basketcase peoples who are too tribalist to be capable of building strong nations. They also happen to be sitting on a lot of oil. This makes for a tempting target. Add in organized Jewry, who give the unholy alliance cultural cover, and it’s a done deal.

    • Replies: @CalDre
  82. Rurik says:

    “We must recognize the Syrian conflict is a war over control of resources indistinguishable from the myriad clandestine and undeclared oil wars we have been fighting in the Mid-East for 65 years. And only when we see this conflict as a proxy war over a pipeline do events become comprehensible.”

    That says it all, don’t you think?

    yes, except that is isn’t over the pipeline, it’s over the Golan Heights

    Israel want to steal the Golan Heights from Syria the way they stole Palestine from the Palestinians. If the US (dog on Israel’s leash)- can do to Syria what it did to Iraq and Libya, the Golan (and the trillions of shekels of oil) will all go to Israel – fee simple.

    That is what this conflict is about. The Golan in particular and ersatz Israel in general

    all the idiotic talk of humanitarian principles or pipelines or ‘dictators’ is all chaff, like the bullshit (WMDs) they were slinging over the trample to war on Iraq, or Libya’s humanitarian principled reasons we had to bomb Libya and lynch its leader. All bullshit.

    We are in the Middle East because of Israel, Period. Because Zionist Jews do wield that kind of power in the Western world and in the US and England in particular. Duh

    For the heck of it I searched ‘Mike Whitney’ and ‘Zionism’ just to see if he’s ever heard of the word. I couldn’t find even one reference to this author even writing the word once, even tho he writes about America’s involvement in the Middle East. I’m sure it’s happened, I just couldn’t find one.

    But I have read great articles from the author, I just find him myopic on the subject of America’s wars in the middle east. On the build up to the war on Iraq, a lot of people were saying it’s all about oil. But I’ve seen zero evidence since then that it was.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @L.K
  83. Svigor says:

    If by “we” you mean you and I, I agree. It was the European settlers and the European and US governments that did it.

    Nope, still wrong. It was your Great Mother Gaia who killed them, with her germs.

    You have no way to substantiate that – it is Mooney’s old estimate that has been roundly critiqued. Estimates vary widely, but the “consensus” was around 10-12 million north of the Rio Grande around 1500. In 1900, the first time an accurate census was taken of Native Americans in the continental US, the population was < 250,000.

    In other words, your accusation of “genocide” is based on hot air. It’s complete bullshit. “See, we’ve got these estimates and guesses and conjectures…so…genocide!”

    If we go with an original number of 10 million, that’s a population reduction of 97.5%.

    But what if we don’t go with your “original number”? What if we tell you to jam it up your ass?

    So, what “genocide” of a population in the millions do you know of that resulted in greater losses?

    The Mongols. They killed 7 to 10% of the world’s population. There’s actually tons of historical evidence for how bad they were, too.

    In many ways, it is incorrect to put all Natives in the same basket. Native Americans consisted of a large number of tribes.

    Yeah, no shit.

    I’ll give the Indians one thing: in many cases, they fought the intrusion of racial/cultural aliens into their spaces, no matter how peaceful. Whites could learn a lot from that.

    But really the essence of an “ethnicity” is its culture and way of living.

    If so, then the Indians were 100% doomed. First thing people want to do is start living indoors and stop scrounging in the wilds for food. Give them an alternative, and they jump at it. You see many NAs today going nomad?s

    • Replies: @CalDre
  84. CalDre says:
    @Svigor

    Nope, still wrong. It was your Great Mother Gaia who killed them, with her germs.

    And who was it that infected the natives with the germs, in many cases intentionally? And in any case, if the germs hadn’t gotten them, the guns would have. The fact is “Manifest Destiny”, the ideology of European supremacism, which you aptly display in the rest of your post, and the fact that anyone not killed by germs was indeed killed by guns or placed in a concentration camp, assured that.

    In other words, your accusation of “genocide” is based on hot air. It’s complete bullshit. “See, we’ve got these estimates and guesses and conjectures…so…genocide!”

    Yeah, right, prove that the Pilgrims existed – oh you are relying on hearsay? Inadmissible! You are making it up!

    Since we don’t know the precise number of Americans living in the US now, I supose if someone killed them all, that wouldn’t be genocide, seeing as we don’t know the precise number present.

    It’s obviously genocide. There were a lot of Native American tribes living throughout the US, which is proven beyond any doubt; the European settlers came with guns and disease and “Manifest Destiny”; and 100 years and countless wars of aggression later all the Native Americans are dead or in concentration camps. It doesn’t get more obvious than that.

    But what if we don’t go with your “original number”? What if we tell you to jam it up your ass?

    Nice tell regarding your true intellect and character.

    The Mongols. They killed 7 to 10% of the world’s population. There’s actually tons of historical evidence for how bad they were, too.

    Oh, now we have such definitive numbers? And you harangued me for using much more accurate estimates above? LOL, more tells. I guess if the estimate makes non-Whites look bad, they’re golden, but if they make Whites look bad, they’re lies – do I have it right?

    In any case, 7-10% is much much less than 97.5%, isn’t it? And also I am only speaking about North American Native Americans, if we were to include all the peoples genocided by White Europeans, the numbers would become astronomically larger, vastly larger than what the Mongols accomplished.

    I’ll give the Indians one thing: in many cases, they fought the intrusion of racial/cultural aliens into their spaces, no matter how peaceful.

    That’s pretty funny.

    If so, then the Indians were 100% doomed. First thing people want to do is start living indoors and stop scrounging in the wilds for food. Give them an alternative, and they jump at it. You see many NAs today going nomad?s

    You obviously don’t know any Native Americans, or know anything about them. Do not confused your domesticated, pansy desires with theirs.

  85. @CalDre

    As you can see I said “rational” rather than “national”. In fact your answer points to a similar rational interest in maintaining the petrodollar business to the the one mentioned in the article. Not that I’m sure it is right.

    As the world had got by without Iraq’s oil for a long time (and there was no guarantee that restoration of its production would add profits for US corporations or even that they would get preferential rights in Iraq – they didn’t I think) the value of Iraq’s oil doesn’t stack up as a decisive, or even major, factor. Wolfawitz is said to have opined that the oil would pay the war but I haven’ t heard who believed him. And anyway that’s just break even.

  86. CalDre says:
    @Svigor

    “the Indians” is a far less real category than “the Palestinians” is.

    Both are just as “real” a category as “Americans”. Since it seems to elude you: “Americans” refers to who lives in America now; Native Amerians refers to who lived in AMerica in 1492. It’s not that difficult.

    It’s a catch-all term created by western Academics to refer to people who were happily slaughtering and enslaving one another before whites showed up, and who went right on doing so after whites showed up (often teaming up with YT to do it).

    Sounds like humanity. Even though many tribes were peaceful, some weren’t and had wars with their neighbors (though their wars paled in comparison to White man wars – less concentration of power in rulers => less war and less lethal war).

    Murderous tribal warfare, rape, slavery, torture, and mutilation were commonplace.

    Oh, you have any statistics on that, broken down by tribe? Because it sounds to me like you’re just making it up. But I will grant you, wherever humans are, you will find rape, warfare, torture, mutilation.

    Once YT discovered their existence, it was guaranteed that somebody was going to civilize the continent. The Brits just made sure it wasn’t Russians or Chinese.

    Actually Russians conquered a lot of land without genociding the locals. But sure, you can make the argument that in certain cases genocide is “justified”. It’s still genocide, though. And fact is virtually every criminal or sinner has a justification for their crime or sin.

    And it was Africans (black Africans, to be specific) who enslaved all those Africans.

    First of all, it was clearly not “all”. But in any case, so what? Are you going to tell me that if White men enslave White girls and sell them as sex slaves to Arabs, it’s all OK, because Whites enslaved them? (And of course, the Arabs were corrupted by those devilish Whites, who made the slaves available to them!) Is that really your argument?

    Really, it was a case of African slavers corrupting Europeans with their practices.

    Oh. My. God. So the Whites have no moral responsibility at all, seeing how these innocent, pure souls were corrupted by those nasty blacks. LOL, now I’ve heard everything. By the way, did you know that both Greeks and Romans, the “most civilized” of European civilizations, had huge numbers of slaves (at times in Greece a large majority of the population, in Rome perhaps half of the population)?

    USG behavior in west Asia is a result of facts on the ground, plus an unholy alliance of organized Jewry, the military-industrial complex, and big energy. The facts on the ground are that west Asia is full of basketcase peoples who are too tribalist to be capable of building strong nations. They also happen to be sitting on a lot of oil. This makes for a tempting target. Add in organized Jewry, who give the unholy alliance cultural cover, and it’s a done deal.

    First of all there are many strong nations in west Asia, and many were much stronger before the US started bombing them to smithereens and undermining them in countless other ways. But in general, I agree that various elites (organized Jewry, MIC, big energy) all have their reasons to burn and pillage the people there. One can always find a reason. The US simply wants to be the global hegemon that controls everything (global dictatorship) and anyone standing in their way must be eliminated. In this regard, the US is the Fifth Reich, no better than the Fourth one.

    • Replies: @Talha
  87. @Rurik

    I know a number of English Jews and I can’t think of one who is even faintly Zionist. Can you enlighten us on the power of Zionist Jews in England? Names? If you say Rothschild which Rothschilds?

    • Replies: @Rurik
  88. @CalDre

    The Russian citizens you refer to can’t be regarded as providing a better excuse for Russia to invade or infiltrate than Hitler had less than 20 years after WW1 in Czechoslovakia. That is not a happy precedent.

    • Replies: @CalDre
    , @annamaria
  89. CalDre says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I don’t have a big problem with Germany reclaiming Sudentenland (or Danzig), the land stolen from her after WW I; but I agree the rest went too far.

    Vastly worse are the US invasions of Panama, Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Somalia, ad nauseum. US also annexed Hawaii (conquered) and Alaska (bought, not that the locals consented to it – but what do they matter??) and nobody complains about that …. It’s the “one rule applies to the Empire, another to her vassals”, or otherwise, global dictatorship principle.

  90. CalDre says:
    @The Grate Deign

    So let me be more direct so even you can understand: I call a spade a spade. It’s not a question of being “creative”, certainly nothing you have written comes remotely close to that category, but as you are a hate-mongering idiot I will call you a hate-mongering idiot to demonstrate my disgust with your stupid but dangerous ideas.

  91. @CalDre

    “Empire is inherently evil”. In contrast to what? Nationalism, tribalism?

    When are Arabs going to start benefitting from the dowmfall of the Ottoman Empire? Galicians from the destruction of the Austro-Hungarian Empire? Zimbabweans from the decline of the British Empire?

    • Replies: @CalDre
  92. Azote says:
    @Montefrío

    Then too there is the delusion that US clandestine agencies have great power over the destinies of other nations if those nations choose to vote out or toss out failed leftist governments whereas if a failed rightist government is voted out or tossed out it’s because of a “victory” by popular demand, because only leftists are “victims” of always-scheming bureaucrats at clandestine agencies

    Did you just write that?

    https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/assads-death-warrant/#comment-1572783

    Do you realise that after denying the capability of the USG to change governments ie the destinies of other nations and smear those who believe it possible as “delusional leftists”, you hilariously proceeded to not only confirm those capabilities, but also justify some of them as the USGs “duty” to defend US territorial integrity?

    Did the government and peoples of Chile perhaps threatened the “territorial integrity” of the US, and ergo deserved a bloody dictatorship and the torture, rapes and executions that followed?

    You sir are disgusting

    • Replies: @Montefrío
  93. Rurik says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    I know a number of English Jews and I can’t think of one who is even faintly Zionist.

    perhaps that’s because Zionism for them is like water for a fish. They just don’t notice it.

    when’s the last time you heard one of them say something like… ‘fuck that shitty little country Israel and the Nazi scum that run it!’ ?

    yesterday? Last week ? 😉

    Can you enlighten us on the power of Zionist Jews in England? Names?

    it’s insidious and nefarious isn’t it wiz?

    for me, one of the most blatant examples of Zionism’s power over the governments of the west was the video of the ‘dueling puppets’.

    Do you remember that one wiz? Where the leaders of the governments of Canada and Australia were videotaped reading from the same script on the necessity of war with Israel’s enemy Saddam? Do you remember that? Do you remember how they were both telling the same disgusting lies? That now, in hindsight, we all know were not mistakes, but down right dirty rotten lies. Pure and simple

    It was probably also written by David Frum, who wrote Dubya’s speech on the need to attack Iraq.

    here’s that video wiz

    as for names, I don’t want to get into all of that. This is a thread on Syria. Suffice to say that I consider England the lap dog of the US when it comes to their foreign policy. And I consider the US Israel’s lap dog when it comes to its foreign policy. I’ll leave it up to the esteemed readers to decide for themselves how true that is.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
    , @Talha
  94. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:
    @edNels

    The Stripped Bass in Western US riparian ecosystems is a destabilizing pest species that needs to be exterminated…perfectly fine in its natural East Coast Atlantic Coast habitat.

    The rainbow trout is another destabilizing species all over the US…needs to be exterminated just about everywhere.

    Best tasting fish I ever had is Tile Fish…tastes like lobster.

    • Replies: @edNels
  95. CalDre says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Interestingly, all those groups you mention – Arabs, Galicians, and Zimbabweans are victims of one Empire after another. All are currently to various extents victims of the US Empire. And all of them want nothing more but to be free of these empires.

    In your comment you are presuming that somehow their position would be better today if they were still part of their prior Empires. I don’t know, maybe, maybe not. But what if they were free societies, not politically influenced by outsiders who give one group or another weapons to dominate over other groups in return for delivering resources or otherwise doing as they are told?

    You might as well ask, why is murder, oppression, genocide, or war evil? Why is anything evil? You may take an amoral view of the world and go “Beyond Good and Evil”.

    Empire is evil because it uses violence to expand itself and impose its rulers onto other subjects. Anything else would be a confederation, which is not inherently evil.

    I see nothing wrong, inherently, with nations or tribes. The problem is one group (nation or tribe) wanting to dominate others, and when this happens successfully, it’s called “Empire”.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  96. L.K says:
    @Rurik

    Rurik:

    For the heck of it I searched ‘Mike Whitney’ and ‘Zionism’ just to see if he’s ever heard of the word. I couldn’t find even one reference to this author even writing the word once, even tho he writes about America’s involvement in the Middle East. I’m sure it’s happened, I just couldn’t find one.

    Hehe, I had noticed the same pattern!

    Rurik:

    But I have read great articles from the author, I just find him myopic on the subject of America’s wars in the middle east. On the build up to the war on Iraq, a lot of people were saying it’s all about oil. But I’ve seen zero evidence since then that it was.

    right, I have read good articles from M.Whitney too, but this just is not one of them. He won’t touch Israel/zionism/Jew power with a 20 foot pole…
    As for the zero evidence for oil being the cause for the Iraq war and all, that is right… it is just basically misdirection.
    James Petras & others have already debunked this shit.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  97. Cato says:
    @Fidelios Automata

    “My only hope now is that the Alt-Right can overthrow this mess without turning this country into a police state or dictatorship.”

    Won’t happen. You should count on more totalitarian policies here in the Homeland. You should also count on a whole lot more countries suitable for retirement getting screwed up. The good news: pretty soon it will probably be legal to smoke weed in your state, and you can chill out on the couch, watch Netflix, drink some wine, smoke some weed, and have a perfectly happy retirement.

  98. annamaria says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “… a better excuse for Russia to invade or infiltrate” Crimea.

    The UNZ Review have provided more than enough material on the history of Crimea and on the geography of Ukraine, a large part of which is made of the Polish, Romanian, and Hungarian territories amassed by Stalin and given to the Soviet republic of Ukraine.

    Russians did not need to “to invade or infiltrate” Crimea. This is slander.
    There have been three (3) Crimean referendums during which the Crimeans voted for a greater autonomy from Ukraine and, finally, for a complete independence from the Kaganat of Nuland with a capital in Kiev (see Stratfor definition the “most blatant coup d’etat,” the conversation between Nuland and Pyatt on the US choice of Ukraine’s president – a highly denigrating document for Ukrainian citizenry – and the “secret” appearance of the the CIA Director in Kiev on the eve of the civil war in Ukraine). The bloodless reunification of Crimea with Russia stands as quite a contrast to the horrific US adventure in Serbia.

    “Polling by the Razumkov Centre in 2008 found that 63.8% of Crimeans (76% of Russians, 55% of Ukrainians, and 14% of Crimean Tatars, respectively) would like Crimea to secede from Ukraine and join Russia… A poll by the International Republican Institute in May 2013 found that 53% wanted “Autonomy in Ukraine (as today)… A poll conducted by the Crimean Institute of Political and Social Research on 8–10 March 2014 found that 77% of respondents planned to vote for “reunification with Russia…”

    As for the legality of Khruschev’ transfer of Russian territory of Crimea to Ukraine, here is a clear explanation: “On 21 May 1992 the Supreme Soviet of Russia declared 1954 transfer of Crimea as having “no legal force”, because it was adopted “in violation of the Constitution (Fundamental Law) of the Russian SFSR and legislative process.”

    The “most blatant coup d’etat” in Kiev was intended for creating an east-european version of Iraq/Syria/Libya disorder, destruction, and civil war – next to Russia. Whereas in the Middle East the US/Israel/Saudis have been using jihadis (various flavors of Al Qaeda) against Syria and Libya, the US-initiated balkanization of Ukraine involved neo-Nazis.

    Perhaps the words “invade or infiltrate” should justifiably be used for the US State Dept. policies in Ukraine and Russia.

    • Replies: @Avery
    , @Wizard of Oz
  99. Avery says:
    @annamaria

    {the Kaganate of Nuland }

    Excellent.

  100. @annamaria

    I see you have written a lot but I shall skip it since you have misrepresented what I said in order to give yourself a platform. I didn’t mention Crimea but made the point that reference to Russian citizenship before the 1917 (presumably of grandparents) wasn’t a great argument for Russian intervention unless you alproved Hitler’s moves in 1938.

  101. @L.K

    In denying that oil matters were the principal cause of the Iraq war are you also intending to contradict Whitney’s points about the gas pipeline from Qatar and Assad’s rejection of it? If so why?

  102. @CalDre

    I infer that you ideal model divides people geographically by ethnic identity and then joins them in some tight or maybe very loose confederation for all sorts of reasons like free markets, combatting criminals etc. So the EU is a pretty good start is it, and unfairly called imperial? Should a bare majority of Scots or Northern Irish be able to treat themselves as separate parts of the confederated whole? Or as just separate? And what about Londonistan? Should the majority Muslim population in France in 2060 be entitled to adopt Sharia for the country and if necessary leave the EU so they can do so? How generally do you resolve the conficts between long established constitution including bills of rights and changing majorities where the polity is not ethnically unified?

    As to your first paragraph I wonder what you could possibly mean about their being victims of the American empire (except for the Arabs in respect of whom I won’t stop to consider whether Empire has got anything to do with what they have suffered from US bumbling in the ME). And your claim to know what all of them want is extravagantly incautious at best. It might be hard now to find citizens of, say, India, now that regret the passing of the Raj but it certainly wasn’t 25 years ago in my experience. As for Zimbabwe!!!!

    • Replies: @Talha
  103. @Rurik

    Lots of evasion but even if you are right about Jewish/Zionist influence you obviously haven’t a clue about the reality which might support your assertions. And for your information the English Jews I know are anti-Zionist in the sense that they are against Israeli treatment of Palestinians.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  104. Talha says:
    @CalDre

    Hey CalDre,

    Really, it was a case of African slavers corrupting Europeans with their practices.

    Oh. My. God. So the Whites have no moral responsibility at all, seeing how these innocent, pure souls were corrupted by those nasty blacks.

    Seems like homeboy also forgets that the Varangians (aka Vikings – super White dudes!) needed no coaching from Blacks. They were enslaving other whites by the thousands and selling them in the Muslim lands and Byzantium – and making money hand over fist!

    I think you just slipped into a theological discussion at this point – homeboy thinks of the angelic goodness in Whites like the Nation of Islam thinks of the angelic goodness in Blacks.

    Friendly advice, you’re not going to get anywhere – cut your losses.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  105. Talha says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Should the majority Muslim population in France in 2060 be entitled to adopt Sharia for the country and if necessary leave the EU so they can do so?

    Aw – hell yes!!!

    Sorry WoO – just trolling you – 😉 – couldn’t resist!

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  106. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Hey Rurik,

    when’s the last time you heard one of them say something like…

    I’ve heard that kind of sentiment from Jews, but my circle is converts to Islam so not sure that counts.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Rurik
  107. Riki says:

    The great game continues, the names of the players have changed but the goal is the same. Domination and control. Those who won’t bow are broken (and murdered), the list for this century are Saddam Hussein, Muamahr Gaddafi, Viktor Yushchenko, Bashar al-Assad and hundreds of thousands of their countrymen. The instability and the weapons and the money that pays the mercenaries don’t appear magically (or from stolen oil – that was a convenient smokescreen that appeared years after the fact), they come from the globalist criminal cartel that runs all the world that exists outside of the russian and chinese spheres of influence. Your FOX news narrative is fit only for simple minded americans who are too stupid to do their own thinking.

    p.s. My opinions are my property and I do not acknowledge any claims by The Unz Review to the contrary

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  108. @Riki

    I assume that your p.s. is some sort of joke because you may be aware of the maxim that there is no property in opinion. (That is not to say that there can’t be Copyright in a professional or other expert opinion in the sense that the words are protected except for “fair use”. But that doesn’t protect the substance of the opinion from being correctly stated by a third party).

  109. @Talha

    You may be well enough informed to answer my question about France having to leave the EU for a majority to be able to enact as law Sharia comprehensively. It would presumably run foul of all sorts of treaties and institutions like the European Court of Human Rights….

    • Replies: @Talha
  110. @edNels

    “WATER. that iswhat Israel really needs,hell they can rule the f’n deserts..but water…is what is in short supply and what is needed”

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/israel-proves-the-desalination-era-is-here/

    “Amazingly, Israel has more water than it needs. The turnaround started in 2007, when low-flow toilets and showerheads were installed nationwide and the national water authority built innovative water treatment systems that recapture 86 percent of the water that goes down the drain and use it for irrigation — vastly more than the second-most-efficient country in the world, Spain, which recycles 19 percent.

    But even with those measures, Israel still needed about 1.9 billion cubic meters (2.5 billion cubic yards) of freshwater per year and was getting just 1.4 billion cubic meters (1.8 billion cubic yards) from natural sources. That 500-million-cubic-meter (650-million-cubic-yard) shortfall was why the Sea of Galilee was draining like an unplugged tub and why the country was about to lose its farms.

    Enter desalination. The Ashkelon plant, in 2005, provided 127 million cubic meters (166 million cubic yards) of water. Hadera, in 2009, put out another 140 million cubic meters (183 million cubic yards). And now Sorek, 150 million cubic meters (196 million cubic yards). All told, desal plants can provide some 600 million cubic meters (785 million cubic yards) of water a year, and more are on the way.

    The Sea of Galilee is fuller. Israel’s farms are thriving. And the country faces a previously unfathomable question: What to do with its extra water?”

    Desalination used to be an expensive energy hog, but the kind of advanced technologies being employed at Sorek have been a game changer. Water produced by desalination costs just a third of what it did in the 1990s. Sorek can produce a thousand liters of drinking water for 58 cents. Israeli households pay about US$30 a month for their water — similar to households in most U.S. cities, and far less than Las Vegas (US$47) or Los Angeles (US$58).

  111. Che Guava says:
    @Randal

    Alright, I have read a broader range of your posts, although not the one that irritated me.

    Perhaps it was by another poster and I confused it with yours.

    Regards,

    Che.

  112. @Azote

    That paragraph was badly phrased: you are correct. I was distracted by the arrival of a grandchild. What I’d intended to write was that when leftist governments are elected, it’s rarely mentioned that there were/are clandestine influences at work in many cases. The CIA is far from omnipotent, as many on the left seem to believe; other nations with different ideologies had/have very effective intelligence agencies equally if not more prone to interference in the affairs of nations not their own.

    Were you an adult during the Chilean coup? Do you live or have you ever lived in South America? I’m assuming you’re bilingual based on your moniker, but unsure if you mean it as whip, lash or scourge; interesting choice whichever the case, given that it’s a torturer’s instrument.

    There were no foreign troops in Chile when Allende was overthrown. US influence (or interference, if you prefer) was largely limited to funding anti-Allende propaganda and standing aside when the coup took place. It was Chileans themselves (soldiers are also citizens) who overthrew a government that was believed to have exceeded its constitutional mandate. The extent of Soviet involvement with Allende’s government is still unresolved. Pinochet greatly exceeded his brief and atrocities took place, but sadly that’s not infrequent in Latin American politics on both sides. Nevertheless, Chile has since prospered, much as did Spain and Portugal after disagreeable but necessary authoritarian governments imposed to correct chaos.

    I am a person you’ve never met, but feel free to place me in your basket of deplorables because our opinions differ; I’ll not reciprocate.

  113. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Dear Talha,

    Varangians… …They were enslaving other whites by the thousands and selling them in the Muslim lands

    holy cannolis Talha

    I need a source for that one

    I know that Tartars (a sort of Turkish, Khazar, Mongolian mix) would raid white Russian villages and sell whites to the Muslims (by the millions)

    and I know that the Vikings (and Varangians- from whom I got my screen name ; ) certainly dealt in slaves, (as did everyone else during those days). But I’ve never heard of any account of a Varangian selling white slaves to Muslims.

    when and where did this happen?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Talha
  114. Rurik says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    if you are right about Jewish/Zionist influence you obviously haven’t a clue about the reality which might support your assertions.

    have you ever heard of the Balfour Declaration wiz?

    the English Jews I know are anti-Zionist in the sense that they are against Israeli treatment of Palestinians.

    there are a lot of Jews that are opposed to the way the Palestinians are treated. That is true.

    I even know a young Jewish gal who had a falling out with her parents over the holiday of Passover, because it celebrates the slaughter of children. (what a thing to celebrate, eh?)

    but if you’re trying to suggest that Jewish/Zionist influence in England is negligible, then I’ll just remind you that were it not for this (glaringly obvious) influence, there never would have been a second world war, and the first one would have ended in a much more honorable peace. [see Declaration, Balfour]

    Not to mention that it is only because of the Rothschild/ Jewish influence on England today that that ancient and formerly proud nation is committing demographic and cultural suicide. And that’s not just true of England, but of every Western nation who are under the influence of Rothschild, Soros and other powerful Jews and who are being forced to genocide themselves out of their ancient lands. The whole refugee crisis is being foisted by Zionist Jews wiz, and further, you know that very well, don’t you?

    If the Brits (or Germans or N. Americans or Swedes etc…) were allowed to control their own destinies sans Jewi$h influence, they would not be demanding that they be overrun by Africans and Muslims and Asians and treated like second class citizens in their own lands, wiz, now would they?

    Just ponder that for a few and get back to me with your insistence that Jews have no influence over the British government. Perhaps one of the stupidest things I’ve read lately, and that’s saying a lot!

    • Replies: @L.K
  115. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Hey Talha,

    but my circle is converts to Islam

    I’m guessing that these people are rather an anomaly Talha

    but they do exist..

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/217843

    Peace

    • Replies: @Talha
  116. TOM GILES says: • Website

    Why hasn’t Assad been taken out by CIA/Mossad jackals yet? What’s the hold up? Look how fast they got Gadaffi?

  117. Anonymous [AKA "Truthdom"] says:
    @The Grate Deign

    Those evil elitists who finance these unlawful wars are already drilling for oil in the Golan Heights, which belongs to Syria. Even the UN has come out and said what they are doing is illegal. It’s always the same criminals, Jacob Rothchild, Murdoch, Cheney, JP Morgan, Netanyahu.

    http://yournewswire.com/cheney-rothschild-murdoch-co-start-drilling-for-oil-in-syria/

  118. Patriot says:

    Whitney’s premise that the USA is trying to overthrow Syria in order to control oil is falsified by the words of General Wesley Clark, given 2 years BEFORE the pipeline problem. Clark says that in 2007 (or 2006 — it is unclear in the video), that a small group in the Pentagon/US Government had decided to take out 7 Islamic nations (all of which threatened Israel in one way or another).

    Hence, a small cabal of elites in Washington decided to overthrow Syria (and 6 other Muslim nations) 2 years before the pipeline thing. And in fact, the USA has spent the last 10 years attempting exactly that — resulting in over a million dead, thousands of destroyed cities and villages, perhaps 20-million refugees, and at a cost of maybe $4 Trillion to USA taxpayers. These USA war-crimes surpass Nazi Germany, and these USA War criminals should be brought to justice.

    Most likely there are multiple reasons why the Neocons want to overthrow Syria, and maybe oil is one of them. But, “The Plan – Gen. Wesley Clark” (Google the You-Tube video), proves that there is more to it. Most likely, it all about destroying any nation that can threaten Israel.

    • Replies: @utu
  119. L.K says:
    @Rurik

    Rurik:

    there are a lot of Jews that are opposed to the way the Palestinians are treated. That is true.

    Well, I really dunno the %, but if I had to make an educated guess, I’d say that there are ‘some’ Jews opposed to the way the Palestinians are treated, certainly not many… plus those opposed basically do not hold power or have much influence in the community.
    I’ll admit that as far as US Jews go, many of them possibly don’t know much re what the Palestinians go through, given the media blackout in the US.

    Also Rurik, the Jew Power Configuration, does not exist in a vacuum, it is heavily supported by many avg Jews. For example, in one of his books, Prof.MacDonald reports that by 1996 there were circa 300 national Jewish oganizations in the US with a combined budget of around $6 Billion.
    Besides the wealthy Jews there are also a lot of middle class ones involved with these organizations.

    As for this wizard of ooze, what a troll!!

    The guy pretends not to even know about the immense amount of Jewish/Zio power/influence in England!

    For that one alone I recommend him as a contender for the Shit Eater prize for this month!

    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
  120. KenH says:

    It seems some otherwise competent writers have a real aversion to fingering Israel or their American domestic lobby for events in the Middle East and prefer to pretend that it’s a bunch of cigar chomping good ol’ boys (i.e., white men) in the oil industry who are directing traffic from behind the scenes. I guess they deny reality or shift blame so they don’t get that icky anti-semitic feeling.

  121. Rurik says:

    Hey L.K.,

    I’ll admit that as far as US Jews go, many of them possibly don’t know much re what the Palestinians go through, given the media blackout in the US.

    it’s a complicated thing LK

    I know a lot of Jews, and most of them are like you and I and the average Joe. Trying to earn a living and get ahead and avoid life’s little land mines.

    But they also know they’re Jews, and as such, feel a natural affinity for other Jews and what they perceive to be ‘good for the Jews’

    the problems is the leadership- They’re rotten to the core. (just like the Christian leadership)

    psychopaths tend to rise to the top LK, and in the case of the world’s Jewish and Christian leadershit, that’s all I see. Self-serving psychopaths who cynically use the sheep-like proclivities of all peoples to foist their own agendas at the expense of their respective flocks.

    The Jewish people are being duped (just like the Christians) into doing things that make them hated collectively- in some mindless stupor of lock-step, lemmingry march into infamy.

    Zionism, because of rampant and uncontrollable hubris, will not end well for the Jews, even if they don’t even know what it is, or how it came to be, or what it’s goals are.

    Dick Cheney understands all those things far better than any of the Jews I know, and benefits from it all far more substantially than the Jews of the world that are increasingly being looked askance at.

    But they’ll all rally around the bloodthirsty Zio-scum Bibi, just like the German people rallied around Hitler, until it was too late.

    that’s how hubris works, alas

    (and yes, I know Hitler and the Nazis are not given fair treatment by court historians and Hollywood, etc.., but nevertheless, there was some hubris there- I suspect, and a feeling that their successes were proof positive that God really was on their side. ~ Just like so many Jews today who look at the startling hegemony their tribe enjoys over others, and start to think they really are chosen. (And that will be the death of them).

  122. @L.K

    Hi, L.K!

    Good to see so many Jew-wise folks on the internets these days!

    You wrote: “… the Jew Power Configuration, does not exist in a vacuum, it is heavily supported by many avg Jews.”

    True enough…but let’s not forget the absolutely massive Christian contribution to the “Jew Power Configuration.” The Christians have been very eager and willing to help the Jews to accomplish their goals for world domination…Indeed, every time a Jew announces a new project (cleverly designed to wreck some aspect of society) I see dozens of Christian leaders knocking each other down to help him! But their biggest contribution comes in the form of a passive acquiescence to the ruinous programs of the International Jew. From what I’ve been able to tell, there is no depravity that the Christians won’t allow to manifest. When some heinous activity is brought to their attention, they only shrug their narrow shoulders and whimper “Well, this is Satan’s world!”

    Take a look at that grinning imbecile at the Vatican, for example. That goofy bastard…

    *Slow down…take some deep breaths, Anonymous*

    As you can tell, I’m not fond of spineless Christian do-nothings. In my view, they do far more harm than good in this world, and we should do every thing in our power to supplant them with people who are genetically resistant to sodium fluoride poisoning and are able to actually think!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  123. edNels says:

    pope Benedict was really creepy to look at…worse than the new guy, He had prevert writtin across his forhead…

  124. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Russian Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Maria Zakharova: “If earlier we had suspicions that the Nusra Front is protected this way, now, after today’s airstrikes on the Syrian army we come to a really terrifying conclusion for the entire world: the White House is defending IS [Islamic State or Daesh).”

    This is the first time they say it explicitly, if I am not wrong.

  125. annamaria says:

    “…we’re a Joint Military Command with Israel”
    https://consortiumnews.com/2016/09/17/everything-that-we-have-done-since-911-is-wrong/

    “…militarily, we’re functionally a joint military command. We know all about the PNAC [Project for a New American Century] thing. And before that it was Oded Yinon, writing in 1982, advising the Israeli government to fragment the Middle East. He was an Israeli foreign service officer saying, “Rather than dealing with these other Arab states and being in a state of war, what we should do is fragment them, break them into pieces.” And later when Netanyahu was prime minster, in 1996, Richard Perle came along making that same recommendation… Ben Zion Netanyahu [Benjamin Netanyahu’s father] said, “Wipe out the Arabs, get rid of them; and my son agrees with me!”

    The US have become a host for the veracious parasitoid made of war profiteers abetted and encouraged by Israel-firsters.

  126. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous Smith

    All I wanted to do was to click on “Agree”, but anonymous commenters can’t.

    —————————————–
    Still, I want to point out that not Jews, but Zionism is the cause of Jews giving problems, and being domineering.
    Nationalism is a powerful tool, one of the most effective ideologies/religions in making humans work and pay effort for an illusionary common cause.

    You convince people that a flag, an ethnicity, the soil of a nation, is “them”, and they’ll devote great energy to that flag, ethnicity, national soil, without realizing they are tools.

    That’s the misleading power of faith.
    I have personally known Jews who would be nice-hearted and non-aggressive people, turned intractable by abstract idols such as “Israel”, “Jewry”, “anti-Semitism”.
    The power of the heads of Zionism depends on such illusions, thus they’ll do all in their power to make said illusions and their grip last as long as possible.
    ————————————

    • Replies: @Anonymous Smith
  127. edNels says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    striped bass breed like flies…. they can thrive in brackish dirty water. and they are plentiful, no enemies, they do real good in SF Bay and estuaries…eat all the native fauna…. the bastards even take mamals who swim.

    This also is a good example of government… because the Striped bass has been protected for about a hundred years supposedly to create a game fishery…. SF Bay is polluted big time… whith the oil industry, and thousands of effluents from poorly processed sewage… and ships that dump their crap in port… etc.

    One of the best eating fishes, even if caught in the bay would be the flounder, and halibut which come in from outside… for some reason, they live on the bottom… (bottom feeders), but they are a clean fish. Another pretty good fish is called Capozone… and if you could ever catch one, the Eel that live in rocks… but be careful, they could take your hand off.

  128. Talha says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Hey WoO,

    You may be well enough informed

    No way…way over my pay grade. I can quote from established rulings from our sagacious scholars of the past, but ruling on a new issue, especially of such crucial and wide-reaching importance can only be commented on by the qualified. Whether a compromise could be reached, whether prior commitments block the ability to apply certain laws, etc. I could probably count on my hands (maybe my feet) those that are qualified to provide an opinion from a Shariah perspective.

    Sorry…

    Peace.

  129. utu says:
    @Patriot

    Whitney always likes to push the Marxist view (like Chomsky) that chief motives are economic and it is all because of big ugly and greedy American corporations. (Chomsky’s likes to ininuate that if it was not for America, Israel would have be a very nice and peaceful country.) By doing so, when it comes to Middle East, Whitney covers up the true role of Israel and its agenda. Syria was on the hit least just like Iraq and Libya because they were strong nation states. They were to be destroyed and replaced with chaos of endless sectarian fightings. It had nothing to do with any pipeline or oil.

  130. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Wow – interesting article – whacky though – why the heck would a Jewish person join Daesh! Really crazy!

    I’m talking more of the guys that took the traditional path (and at times a Sufi order).

    Peace.

  131. AndrewR says:
    @Alden

    You are a lying subhuman if you can say that the American Indians were not genocided.

  132. AndrewR says:
    @Montefrío

    Your refusal to tell us which South American land you live in is extraordinarily patronizing.

  133. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Dear Rurik,

    No problem, yes indeed it did and it is well documented:
    “The Varangian State centred on Kiev was, as we have seen elsewhere, commercial in character: it was set up in order to control the trade routes between Scandinavia and the Black Sea, and its main export traffic was slaves – destined for the Muslim world or Byzantium. A slave emporium was formed in Southern Russia, whose catchment area was the whole Slav East and which served both the Mediterranean and Persian lands conquered by the Arabs, and the Greek Empire.”

    http://cnqzu.com/library/Philosophy/neoreaction/Perry%20Anderson/Passages%20from%20Antiquity%20to%20Feudalism.PDF

    Eunuchs – in the form of monks castrated for church dedication were prime targets:
    “The demand for slaves, including talented and literate non-Muslim eunuchs, was enormous across the Islamic world at the time of the early Abbasid caliphate (mid-eighth to the late tenth century). Judging by the actions described in al-Muqaddasi’s geography, the captives did not even need to be literate in Arabic in order to be useful. This demand generated a ripple effect that spread throughout Abbasid territories, throughout the Mediterranean basin and also into eastern and western Europe. Scholars are just starting to acknowledge the large-scale influence of this long-distance slave trade on the start of the Viking Age in northwestern Europe, the same eighth through eleventh centuries. Indeed, some still deny the importance of the economics of the slave trade when it comes to Viking raiding activities. But women were often targeted during Viking raids, as potential mothers and wives in Iceland and Scandinavia, or as high-value trade objects to be exchanged as far away as Byzantium and the Abbasid Empire.”

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/castration-and-culture-in-the-middle-ages/castrating-monks-vikings-the-slave-trade-and-the-value-of-eunuchs/028A4E81E02ABBF3BEA7EB66ADAF426C

    “Ibn Hawqal, an Arab geographer, described a Viking slave trade in 977 A.D. that extended across the Mediterranean from Spain to Egypt. Others recorded that slaves from northern Europe were funneled from Scandinavia through Russia to Byzantium and Baghdad…Some genetic studies, for example, suggest that a majority of Icelandic women are related to Scottish and Irish ancestors who likely were raid booty.”

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/12/151228-vikings-slaves-thralls-norse-scandinavia-archaeology/

    Gentlemen (and sultans) prefer…?

    I’m not singling them out – that would be disingenuous, since this was a pretty universal practice.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Rurik
    , @Laguerre
  134. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    And you know I would never make a claim like this without backing. 🙂

    Peace.

  135. @Anonymous

    Hello!

    I’m gonna make this short, but give you something to think about.

    You wrote: “Still, I want to point out that not Jews, but Zionism is the cause of Jews giving problems, and being domineering.”

    Zionism: A political movement that supports the maintenance and preservation of the state of Israel as a Jewish homeland, originally arising in the late 1800s with the goal of reestablishing a Jewish homeland in the region of Palestine.

    I want you to watch this video…

    The woman in the video, Barbara Spectre, is a Zionist. Now, ask yourself this: why would a Zionist be so concerned about European multiculturalism? How does European multiculturalism advance the goals of Zionism?

    The obvious answer is that European multiculturalism doesn’t advance the goals of the state of Israel at all…it has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

    After you’ve rolled that around awhile, ask yourself this: who the fuck is this Zionist bitch to be demanding multiculturalism in Europe?! Why MUST Europe become multicultural? Who decided that? And for that matter, why are all the major Jewish organizations (there are dozens of them, many are purely Zionist) in the US demanding that America be more multicultural? WTF is up wit dat?

    In a nutshell…the New World Order is a Jewish thing, not a Zionist thing. Zionism is a part of the NWO, to be sure, but it’s only a small part of a much larger organization.

    There, that should hold you for awhile.

    I have one more video I’d like you to watch. This one is hard to watch, I know, but watch it and let it sink in. And as you’re watching it, remember what Barbara Spectre said in the other video, and how she said it…so casual, so callous. Look at the results of her actions…

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/11/watch-anti-migrant-video-going-viral-across-europe/

  136. anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Max Payne

    Ah, so you do agree that the so-called jihadis, as despicable as they may be, their masters the imperials, the ones who shag them and get shagged in return, are Satanic-level Evil.

    You are a smart one indeed!

  137. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @edNels

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/israel-proves-the-desalination-era-is-here/

    Israel produces more water than it needs , holds multiple patents for desalination and is building plants in other countries.

    Schools out.

  138. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Do you talk like this in real life to your family members , friends ( lol ) , and co workers ( double lol). ??

  139. Rurik says:
    @Talha

    Dear Talha,

    Oh boy, now I’ve got reading to do..

    looks rather interesting.

    We all know that slave trading was a common thing back then, and yes, the Vikings did their share of it. But somehow I just don’t see Vikings raiding Irish villages or Slavic enclaves and then castrating the boys and selling them and the young women over to the Muslims. Perhaps it happened, but from what I understand, the Vikings and the Muslims didn’t get along so swell back in those days, and it seems counter-intuitive for me to imagine Vikings handing over castrated Irish boys or young Slavic women to sultans in Baghdad even for gold.

    Keep in mind, the Vangarians were asked to come to Kyiv as it rulers. The people there desperate for the kind of benevolent but strong rule that only a Vangarian (like Rurik) could provide. If the Vangarians were the type to sell these people’s daughters to the Muslims, then it’s unlikely they would have been asked to come rule the lands, no?

    But I’ll read some of your links with an open mind nonetheless

    peace

    • Replies: @Talha
  140. Talha says:
    @Rurik

    Dear Rurik,

    No problem. Here are more sources:
    “In addition, Kiev also traded with Central and West Asia, establishing commercial relations with the Islamic Empire, supplying slaves from Russia and Central Asia to the Abbasid Caliphate in Baghdad.”
    World History: Journeys from Past to Present

    “Also valued in the East were the slaves that the Rus captured from among the Eastern European peoples—Slavs, from which English has derived the word slave. According to the itinerant geographer Ibn Hawkal, writing in 977, the Rus slave trade ran “from Spain to Egypt.””
    http://archive.aramcoworld.com/issue/199906/among.the.norse.tribes-the.remarkable.account.of.ibn.fadlan.htm

    “Silver – the main article in Scandinavian demand – came into the hands of the Varangians in exchange for furs and slaves, through custom duties taken from Khorezmian and Bulgarian merchants, or as booty taken during the plundering raids on Khazars, Bulgarians and the borders of the caliphate. The main current of silver, as is shown by the location of hoards with Arab coins, was absorbed by Sweden and Gotland…”

    The Cambridge economic history of Europe. 2. Trade and industry in the Middle Ages

    A search for ‘Vikings’, ‘Varangian’, ‘slave’, ‘Byzantium’, ‘Abbasid’ and such combinations will yield plenty of information from quality sources.

    Am I an expert in the Vikings or Varangians – no, not by a long shot. But I do know above average where their history dovetails with that of the Muslims – and at that juncture are slaves and coins. And sometimes war and sometimes diplomacy.

    The Varangians may well have been more benevolent than preceding rulers, but you have to keep in mind they may not have extended that same sense of fellowship to other people like Slavs, Irish, Scots, etc. I have a short book on the history of Sweden from Prof. Jorgen Weibull and it is quite clear that most pre-modern people of that area had a sense of ethno-centric locality and tribe which is evidenced by the many cross-raids and wars between the Nordic people and their neighbors like the Danes and the Baltic peoples.

    Also – keep in mind, slaves were property and were even sacrificed as part of rituals (so why wouldn’t they be willing to sell them to the right bidders):
    “He also witnessed, along the Volga, the dramatic funeral of a chieftain who was cremated with his ship. His oft-quoted description of this rite is one of the most remarkable documents of the Viking Age, filled as it is with grim details of the dead leader laid out in his boat amid a treasury of expensive items, rich foods and strong drink, as well as a dog, horses, oxen, and poultry, and accompanied by the body of a slave girl who had volunteered for the honor of being slain and burned with her master.” – from second resource

    It also seems counter-intuitive that Muslims would sell other Muslims to Christian slavers in West Africa, but it happened. People have done a lot for the right price.

    I’m just glad that slavery is (mostly) dead and buried.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @RobinG
  141. RobinG says:
    @Talha

    “I’m just glad that slavery is (mostly) dead and buried.”

    You have got to be kidding. It may be (mostly) covert, but modern slavery is thriving. Not long ago, at a party in a prosperous DC neighborhood one guest recounted how a woman had “escaped” from a neighbor’s basement. I’m betting it’s all around, if you know where to look, not to mention selling people for their organs.

    • Replies: @Talha
  142. Talha says:
    @RobinG

    Hey RobinG,

    While I agree there is still a shameful amount of human trafficking going on – the majority of jurisdictions have made it illegal – even if some are willing to look the other way or may not have the police-projection powers to fully enforce it. Which is why it has to be done in someone’s basement and none of us has ever witnessed a scene like this:
    http://www.the-athenaeum.org/art/display_image.php?id=332453

    Peace.

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @RobinG
  143. RobinG says:
    @Talha

    You are just weird. Or did you mean to compare wives to slaves?

    Babylonian Marriage Market, 1875
    Edwin Long (1829-1891)
    Oil paint on canvas
    Purchased for Thomas Holloway, 1882; acc. no. THC0039

    To modern viewers this painting looks like a strange picture to choose for a women’s college. It shows women from ancient Babylon, whose families have not been able to afford a dowry, being auctioned off as wives. Was Holloway implying that the women who went to his college would be sold off in a modern day marriage market?

    In fact, it seems likely that Holloway bought this painting to act as the stimulus for debate about women’s new role in society, their legal status and whether or not to marry. In 1870 a new act had been passed allowing married women to retain some of their income and wealth. Before this, upon marriage, the husband and wife became one person under the law, the property of the wife was surrendered to her husband, and her legal identity ceased to exist. She in effect, like the women in the painting, became a possession of her husband. Although this new law was passed, some campaigners felt that it did not go far enough. In the 1870s, when this picture was painted, there was great public debate about married women’s rights. These led to the act being amended in 1882.

    Apparently the explanation that the most beautiful woman was sold to provide dowry funds for the less attractive was written by Herodotus, so who am I to question. Royal Holloway’s Curator, Dr Laura MacCulloch, discusses the Babylonian Marriage Market

    • Replies: @Talha
  144. anon • Disclaimer says:

    how is the babylonian marriage market that much different from white-glove cotillions /debutante balls http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/across-the-nationacross-the-world/2015/san-francisco-social-diary-51st-annual-san-francisco

  145. RobinG says:
    @Talha

    Talha, as soon as I come across evidence about Amnesty and Human Rights Watch you’ll be the 1st to know. Meanwhile, here’s a Canadian statement on the White Helmets.

    [MORE]

    for immediate release

    Hamilton, ON
    Sunday, September 18, 2016

    Please see attached and below:

    OPEN LETTER RE: “THE WHITE HELMETS”

    To the Federal Caucus of the New Democratic Party

    Dear Members of Parliament:

    It is with great disappointment and regret that we find ourselves calling into question your unanimous caucus decision1, announced by MP Nathan Cullen, to support the nomination of the White Helmets organization in Syria for the Nobel Peace Prize for 2016. After all, as an anti-war organization formed to oppose the Anglo-American attack on Iraq in 2003, our Coalition was founded in part by NDP members in the greater Hamilton/Burlington area and one NDP riding association in Hamilton. Many of our present executive and rank-and-file members either belong to and/or support the NDP.

    In making his announcement, Cullen called the White Helmets “incredible civilians”, “connected to peace”, “the best of humanity”, “saving lives…in the midst of terror.”

    Nothing could be further from the truth.

    The White Helmets organization was founded by James LeMesurier, a British army officer formerly connected to the notorious Blackwater mercenary organization. The White Helmets describe themselves as “fiercely independent.” However, they are actually well-funded by the same governments who are waging the current aggression against Syria. In the past 2.5 years, they received £19.7m. from the British government and $23m. from the US government. Millions more dollars in cash, equipment, and training were contributed by various European NATO countries (including $4.5m. from the Netherlands).2 Would the caucus members agree that these amply-documented facts prove the White Helmets are NOT fiercely independent?

    The White Helmets operate only in terrorist-controlled areas of Syria. The organization is, in fact, deeply embedded in the Nusra (Al Qaeda’s official affiliate in Syria) and ISIS terrorist networks.

    Is Mr. Cullen and the caucus unaware that the White Helmet leader, Raed Saleh, was refused entry to the USA and deported from Dulles Airport in Washington, DC, on March 29, 2016, because immigration officials found that he had “terrorist connections.”3 Saleh has repeatedly called for a no-fly zone over Syria, the same tactic used by NATO in 2011 to bomb Libya into a failed state.

    The White Helmets are first-responder poseurs. The REAL Syria Civil Defence was established in Syria in 1953 and was a founding member of the ICDO [International Civil Defence Org.] which is recognised by the United Nations. The White Helmets were only formed in 2013 by the UK, Turkey, and the US as part of their neocolonialist program in Syria. The White Helmets are not members of the ICDO.

    In short, contrary to Mr. Cullen’s statement to the CBC, the White Helmets are not civilians. And they are not “connected to peace.” In fact, they were recruited as part of the illegal regime change operation in Syria responsible for nearly half a million deaths, 11 million displaced persons, and the widespread destruction of civilian infrastructure. They are part of the reason that over 25,000 Syrian refugees have had to look to Canada for resettlement. And, being embedded directly in Al Qaeda’s Syrian franchise hardly qualifies them to be “the best of humanity.”

    To his credit, party leader Tom Mulcair argued on March 20, 2015, in the House of Commons against expanding the Canadian military mission in the Middle East to include the bombing of Syria:

    Canada does not have the legal grounds to conduct airstrikes in Syria.

    ‘But our friends are doing it’ is simply not a defence. That sort of childish reasoning is more suitable to the schoolyard than it is to the House of Commons and the Prime Minister should know better.

    The fact is, what this government is proposing will put our Canadian Forces in the dubious position of acting outside of international law.

    New Democrats will not stand for it. 4

    The White Helmets call for a no-fly zone over Syria, a policy much-favoured by the Pentagon, but completely at odds with the view (expressed above) of the NDP leadership in the House of Commons. For this reason, the NDP should also not stand in support of the White Helmets.

    We note that your decision to support the White Helmets was taken unilaterally at a closed caucus retreat held several days ago in Montebello, Quebec. This matter was NOT raised at the NDP policy conference in Edmonton only a few months ago in April 2016. In fact, at that conference, party leaders prevented a wide-ranging discussion of the Syrian and Palestinian conflicts from taking place, as well as the $15 b. Canadian sale of arms to Saudi Arabia. A resolution, endorsed by several riding associations, for the party to engage in a wide-ranging foreign policy review was likewise prevented from even coming to the convention floor.

    We would like to emphasize that the humanitarian tragedy in Syria has gone on for far too long: five and a half years. The White Helmet organization does NOT seek to end the tragedy. Instead, it’s part of the propaganda apparatus of the same western governments (which included the Harper government of Canada) that were responsible for causing the tragedy in the first place. They use the White Helmets organization to promote further violence and bloodshed against the Syrian people, up to and including a full-scale and direct western military intervention in Syria.

    Judging by Cullen’s statement, it’s obvious that the caucus did not consider the partisan and fraudulent nature of the White Helmets. We urge you, then, to reverse your decision to support the nomination of the White Helmets organization for the Nobel Peace Prize. Further, our anti-war Coalition urges you to lobby for an end to Canadian economic sanctions against Syria and for a resumption of normal diplomatic relations with the government of Syria. We also hope that you will call for an end to Canada’s participation of the so-called “Friends of Syria” Group of Countries, which was put together in 2012, partly with the help of the Harper government, to wage a proxy war, using terrorist mercenaries, against the Government of Syria. And, we expect that the NDP in Parliament will continue to oppose the participation of the Trudeau government in the US-led coalition in Syria and Iraq.

    Thank you for your consideration of this very important matter.

    Yours truly,

    Doug Brown

    Co-chair,

    Hamilton Coalition To Stop The War

    [email protected] or 905-632-4774

    (after Monday, Sept 19, 1 pm)

    1 http://www.cbc.ca/news/ politics/white-helmets-nobel- peace-prize-1.3764121

    2 21stcenturywire.com/2016/06/ 21/who-are-the-syria-white- helmets/

    3 http://www.nytimes.com/2016/ 04/21/world/middleeast/leader- of-syria-rescue-group- arriving-in-us-for-award-is- refused-entry.html?_r=0

    4 March 30, 2015 – prepared text of speech to Parliament; http://www.macleans.ca/ politics/for-the-record-tom- mulcair-on-the-fight-against- isis/

    • Replies: @Talha
  146. Talha says:
    @RobinG

    Hey RobinG,

    Definitely did not mean to compare wives to slaves, though it is interesting that the painter intended to draw certain parallels before women were granted the legal distinction for their own persons and finances. I should have used a more conclusive picture such as this:

    However, regarding my larger point; if you insist that today’s situation (despite the imperfections) is analogous to the one when one could traipse into the market in Constantinople, Cairo, Rome, etc. and exchange some coins for a human being, then I don’t think there is much point to continuing the conversation.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @anon
  147. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @Talha

    traipse into the market in Constantinople, Cairo, Rome, etc. and exchange some coins for a human being, then I don’t think there is much point to continuing the conversation.

    at risk of repeating oneself, how is “traipsing into the market in Constantinople, Cairo, Rome, etc. and exchange some coins for a human being” all that different from traipsing down a staircase in New York, LosAngeles, etc. and exchanging a dolled-up appearance & coif for a wealthy mate / suitable sex partner? https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/assads-death-warrant/#comment-1577364

    — ah — here’s a distinction: The traipser in the latter example does so more-or-less voluntarily, while the traipser in the first example does not do so freely.

    Moral judgment attaches to the freedom of the traipser/traipsed and not in the fact that coins are exchanged for a human being.

  148. Talha says:
    @RobinG

    Hey RobinG,

    I know how devious the governments can be. I’ve read how the human shields group that went to Iraq to try to prevent the war were compromised by the CIA. But I have the highest respect for the organizations and people who take these stances:

    HRW regarding IDF indiscriminate killings of civilians in Gaza:

    Doctors Without Borders on humiliation and suffering in Palestine:
    http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/support-us/events/optwebcast

    On indiscriminate killings of civilians in Gaza:

    You may not agree with every stance that they take (and sure they make mistakes), but they leave their comfort in Houston, Paris and Stockholm to die to provide service to people – so I hope you have some very, very serious proof:

    Peace.

  149. Let’s not leave the Jews out of the blame game. Hezbollah is supplied through Syria. No group has more influence on Washington than Jewish money and Jewish managed media. It is what it is.

  150. Laguerre says:
    @Talha

    Thanks for all that about Viking slaves. It was very interesting.

    As far as I know, there were never many European slaves in the Abbasid Caliphate. You hear very little of them. (By contrast the Umayyad caliphate of Cordoba did have Slav military slaves). The important point is probably the castrated monks. Eunuchs were needed to look after the harem. There was a terribly high rate of wastage in castration, and they may have looked for ready-made eunuchs. Still the number needed was not high. Byzantium probably took more.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Talha
  151. Talha says:
    @Laguerre

    Hey Laguerre,

    No problem. I agree, it was a fraction of the demand of slaves coming through the African lands (which also produced eunuchs). White slaves, especially females, were quite in demand, but by the elite – the average peasant farmer couldn’t think of procuring such things. As such, many of the female slaves didn’t do too bad and many became the favorites of the masters – often over-taking the position of their legal wives. The Ottoman rulers themselves were basically White Europeans at a point; heir after successive heir to the empire was birthed by Polish, Venetian, Ukrainian or other such European ladies.

    The noble, Lady Roxelana (ra), was a very noble and generous soul:
    https://www.boutiqueottoman.com/who-is-hurrem-sultan-roxelana-hoyam-sultana/

    Eunuchs were needed to look after the harem.

    Indeed, but educated eunuchs were also widely used in tasks of administration and even governance. The idea was that a man who had no chance of producing children, would not usurp his area of influence or territory for his own heirs – as the Ottomans find out to their dismay when their Albanian governor, Muhammad Ali, went rogue in Egypt. This is another reason they fetched high prices.

    There was a terribly high rate of wastage in castration

    Agreed – ‘wastage’ is looking at it nicely, it was indeed a massive crime against people since many of the castrated were children and more susceptible to die due to infection and what not. The low number I have seen is 1 death for every successful eunuch while other sources cite upwards of 9 dead for every one.

    they may have looked for ready-made eunuchs

    This was the practice – the Muslim scholars were adamant that castration was prohibited – it was mutilation of the human body which could not be done on the free or the slave. Thus it was generally done outside the realm or on the periphery. Unfortunately, the Muslim world (especially the leadership/elites) was almost bipolar with its approach to this issue; the Ottomans would both issue edicts that prohibited the castration of slaves in its jurisdiction, but would turn around and send out notices that it needed more eunuchs because it was running out – whack! Reminds me a bit of the way drugs work between us and Mexico.

    I’m going to cite some sources to interdict accusations that I’m just fudging things:
    “In 1715, an Ottoman edict sent to Egypt – source of most fo the empire’s eunuchs – forbade the castration of young men, calling it inhumane, contrary to the Sahria and the sultan’s orders. The edict compared the sites of castration to slaughterhouses, cited a fatwa by the Grand Mufti of Istnabul, and declared the whole business to be bid’a, a blameworthy innovation…Here in short was the dilemma faced in the Muslim world on the question of eunuchs. There was simply no way the ulama could countenance the ‘manufacture’ of eunuchs, yet some Muslims would not stop demanding them…There was no clear Shariah argument forbidding ownership of eunuchs, only their manufacture…The prohibition of castration was universally maintained by Muslim legal thinkers, and the problem of eunuchs was handled in much the same fashion as the problem of illegal enslavement….Many specialized locations for eunuch manifacture were at the fringes of dar al-islam and run by non-Muslims, such as Coptic monks, Jews and Mossi traditionalists. But some Muslims also performed the mutilations.”
    The Cambridge World History of Slavery: Volume 3, AD 1420–AD 1804

    “Apart from numerous Muslim sources, Agobard of Lyons in the ninth century, and Liutprand of Cremona and the Life of St. Adalbert in the tenth century, all mention the export of slaves to Spain through Mainz, Verdun and Lyons, where they were castrated.”
    The Cambridge economic history of Europe

    And, as I’ve said before – thank God most of that is behind us.

    Peace.

  152. Talha says:
    @Laguerre

    Doh! Here I went on and on about the Ottomans (and Muslim lands in general) and realized your comments were specific to the Abbasids and Umayyads – sorry about wasting your time with all that other stuff!

    How embarrassing…

    Peace.

  153. Anonymous [AKA "allah_squeaking"] says:
    @Talha

    “The trolls, feet first into the wood chipper” – evilYoda

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