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Why Biden Won’t Cancel Student Debt
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Paul Jay
Hi, I’m Paul Jay. Welcome to Thank you to everybody who has clicked the donate button. And if you haven’t, maybe you might do it this time. If you’re watching on YouTube or our website, click the share button and subscribe and we’ll be back in a second with Michael Hudson.

U.S. household debt climbed to a record high of fourteen point six trillion dollars at the end of 2020 as mortgage debt surpassed 10 trillion for the first time. Now, the GDP of the United States is only around 21 trillion. Americans owe over 1.71 trillion dollars in student loan debt spread out among 44.7 million borrowers. That’s about 739 billion more than the total U.S. credit card debt. While defaults and payments have been halted due to the pandemic, I’m talking now again about student debt, there’s no plan yet for forgiving such debt in spite of promises from Biden and many others in the Democratic Party. Biden said during a CNN town hall that he would not forgive 50 thousand dollars through executive action, as urged by Senator Schumer and Warren, Biden said, I’m prepared to write off the ten thousand dollars debt, but not the fifty thousand because I don’t think I have the authority to do it. Well, a group of 17 state attorneys general called on Biden to forgive fifty thousand dollars in student debt loans per borrower through executive action, asserting he does have the authority to do so under the Higher Education Act.

On the other hand, beginning in mid-March 2020, the Federal Reserve initiated an aggressive policy of quantitative easing, which included the purchase of corporate bonds. Billions of dollars of corporate debt has been purchased by the Fed, mostly from major companies including Apple, AT&T, General Electric, Ford, Comcast, Microsoft and around 90 others, companies that probably didn’t even need their debt purchased. So the role of the state in forgiving debt is quite OK as long as it’s a major corporation and not a student. OK, I’ll admit the Fed policy is a little more complicated than I outlined, but the principle is clear. It’s not considered a systemic risk for corporations and banks to rely on the government to bail them out of debt. But it is a danger to the system for government to forgive family and student debt. Of course, it goes further than that. The system requires high levels of debt among the population for corporations and banks to continue to rake in massive profits and engorge the fortunes of the billionaire class.

Now joining us to talk about debt is Michael Hudson. Michael’s an economist, a professor of economics at the University of Missouri, Kansas City, and a researcher at the Levy Economics Institute at Bard College. He’s also a former Wall Street analyst, political consultant, commentator and journalist. Thanks for joining us again, Michael.

Michael Hudson
Good to be here. Regarding your lead in, Sheila Bair, the head of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, wrote an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal recently saying the problem with the Federal Reserve is its buying junk bonds. It’s buying the bonds, as she put it, of some big corporations that can’t pay their debts. And she’s criticizing them. She pointed out that the entire financial system rests on debt because debt is the collateral for the banks. The banks’ assets are the debts of the people. So the Fed policy is aimed, ever since 2008, by somehow keeping the economy’s ability to pay its largest massive debts, real estate debts, intact by lowering interest rates to support the mortgage market. And if you support mortgage lending, then even if individual homeowners can’t pay their debts, they can at least sell them to somebody or a company that can afford to pay. So, the whole financial system is a pyramid resting on these debts.

Paul Jay
Let me just emphasize something you just said, because you kind of corrected me on something correctly, that the fact that these major corporations like Apple got their bonds and debt bought was a piece of it. But you’re right, the other piece, which actually developed maybe a little further after they started this program, is they’re now really buying tons of debt where the companies are practically insolvent and never could pay off this debt. As you call them, zombie corporations. Sorry, go ahead.

Michael Hudson
Well, imagine the Fed could have simply bought all the student debt from the government and then wiped it out. The Fed could have wiped it out. The fact is, if the government were to write down all the student debt, it wouldn’t cost the government a penny right now. And that wouldn’t cost the banks a penny because the debt is owed to the government and the government would simply be canceling a future source of revenue. And by canceling the student debt revenue, they’d say debt is a public need. Debt is what people need to get by. It’s a basic need, and so it deserves to be public as it is in England, China and most other developed countries. Only in the United States do you have education taking off at a rate that almost is approaching the inequity of health care and medical care here. That’s what makes America so different from every other industrial country and from China. And because of this heavy debt and health care and all the other expenses that other economies don’t have, that’s exactly why the United States isn’t able to pull out of the recession that we’ve been in for the last 13 years, since 2008.


Paul Jay
Would you say expenses they don’t have, individuals don’t have? They’re dealt with collectively, the health care and education. Yeah, I don’t think there’s an advanced capitalist country, industrialized country, in the world that doesn’t have more or less free higher education. Although I have to say that tuition rates in Canada have been going up with some seriousness. Not nearly at American levels. And student debt exists in Canada too, but again, not as bad as in the U.S..

Michael Hudson
That’s right. Canada is always about three years behind the United States. That’s the perception of Canada. When I worked with the State Department in Canada in 1979, we did test questionnaires on Canadians. What do you think of the future? And almost all Canadians thought their future was going to be what the United States had, but three years behind. And that’s become the basic administrative policy of prime ministers ever since.

Paul Jay
So let’s dig into what you just talked about, because the rationale for all this buying of both corporate bonds from the Apples of this world and now junk bonds, essentially, from companies that really can’t afford to pay their debts, is that this is systemically necessary because of the pandemic, because of the deeper recession. It acts as a stimulus. It stops a greater unraveling of the economy and so on. But all of that rationale would exist for student debt exactly the same way and even more because it would give so much stimulus on the consumer side. As I say, some of these companies that they’re buying their debt from are actually cash rich, like an Apple. They have debt for convenience. But the stimulus, far more stimulus would have come from relieving systemic debt. But the reason I think they don’t do it, and this is what I’m asking you, is because they don’t want people to have any notion that debt gets relieved by the government. They want people to consider that debt must always be paid.

Michael Hudson
I think there’s a simpler explanation. One person’s debt is somebody else’s asset. The government can cancel debts because its the creditor, ultimately, for student loans. So it can cancel debt and nobody’s going to complain because nobody loses any money and the government can make up what it doesn’t get in student debt interest and principal by taxing or by simply printing the money. But if you cancel corporate debt, then you’re going to hurt bond holders. If you cancel business debt you’re going to hurt someone. If you cancel mortgage debt or landlord debt right now, other than a huge increase in backlog of mortgage debt, because many not only homeowners have lost their job, but also the landlords are renting out to renters who are not paying. And if they don’t pay, then the banks will lose.

The Federal Reserve’s job is to make sure that the economy is run for the banking system and for the bond holders, rather than having the banking system and bond markets run for the economy. So we’re living in an upside down economy where everything is being run in order to sustain the bond holders and the banks. And the problem with this is that the mortgage debts, the student loan debts, the personal debts, the car loan debts, they’re growing at an exponentially high rate, while the economy is not growing at a high rate. All of the economy’s growth since 2008 has been only for the top five percent of the population. For 95 percent of the population since 2008, the GDP has actually shrunk. And so you’re having a very sharp polarization right now. So I think if you’re talking about the debt issue, the question is, do you want to sustain this polarization between creditors at the top and the indebted 95 percent or do you want to restore the kind of equality that people think usually is the hallmark of democracy, at least of economic democracy? And the choice by the government is we’re going to sustain the polarization. No matter what, the creditors won’t lose a penny. The debtors will lose.

Paul Jay
OK, so why do you think Biden, and not just Biden, but that section of finance that they represent, why don’t they want to forgive student debt?

Michael Hudson
I think partly it’s what you said. It’s the whole idea that if you admit that you should write down debts when the effect is to help the economy grow and you write down debts that impair economic growth, then people would put economic growth over the welfare of creditors. And that’s revolution. That’s not what our economy is all about. We put creditors first, not the economy. And the very thought of putting the welfare of the people first over the creditors in general, well that’s totalitarianism. That’s a dictatorship. We can’t possibly have that. So it’s the greed of the creditors and the fact that the creditors are able to control politics and who gets nominated, et cetera, enables them to prevent anything that might shock the assumption that the sanctity of property is really the sanctity of creditors to evict property owners if they can’t pay. It’s really the sanctity of debt. And if you talk about the sanctity of debt, it’s the sanctity of the exponential growth of debt, even when it’s beyond the ability to pay, even when it pushes the economy into a chronic depression. And in fact, what we’re suffering now is debt deflation. And the debt deflation at the bottom, students are experiencing, the unemployed are experiencing, cities and states are experiencing it. The transportation systems are running at deficits. All of these deficits are the savings and the gains and the wealth of the one percent or five percent or whatever you want to call the banking and creditor class.


Paul Jay
I saw a stat from Brookings Institute. Now, this is a few years old, maybe five, six years old, but the amount of assets in private hands after liabilities in the United States was, at that point, something like 98 trillion dollars. It’s not like there isn’t enough wealth, there’s no reason why people have to be in such debt. It’s just as you say, it’s the polarization. Talk a little bit about this issue of debt relief, because you’ve done a lot of work on the history of debt and debt relief.

Michael Hudson
Well, the interesting thing is that people assume that the economy is going to crash if people don’t pay the debts. But as we’ve discussed before, I’ve had an archeological anthropology group at Harvard since 1984 where we’ve gone into the economic history of Mesopotamia. And for three thousand years, Sumer, Babylonia, all Near Eastern kingdoms and their rulers, normally, when they would take the throne, they would cancel the personal debts. Not the business debts, not the debts of merchants and traders, but the personal debts. And they did it because otherwise you would have the debtors falling into bondage to the creditors. And that meant if you were a small holder supporting yourself on the land, well, you’d be behind in your taxes or you’d need to borrow for some reason and you would have to work off the debt by working for the creditor. Well, then you couldn’t work on the corvée labor to build the walls and dig the irrigation ditches and the public infrastructure. And if you owed the crop surplus to the creditor, then you couldn’t pay the taxes. So every new ruler who took the throne in the near east for thousands of years would simply have a clean slate. He’d say, OK, we’re wiping out the backlog of debts. And Hammurabi’s Law is one of his clean slate proclamations which said, well, if there’s sickness or if there’s a crop failure or if there is some interruption in economic activity that people can’t afford to pay, then the debts don’t have to be paid.

Well, the result was resilience. The result was not an economic collapse. And this seems so radical that for almost a century, assyriologists and economic historians said they couldn’t possibly have canceled the debts because if they did, the economy would collapse. Well, the fact is the economy didn’t collapse because they canceled the debts. Once you wipe out the debts to the creditor class, you prevent an independent financial oligarchy from developing. You enable the small holders to pay their crops to the palace as they did before. And they’re working on their own land, they’re able to do their corvée duties, the work duties that they did in the off-season from the plantings. And so these clean slates would not only cancel the debts, they would give back the property that had been forfeited to the creditors and they would free the debtor from bondage, that is owing the labor to the creditor. And in fact, this is word for word borrowed by the Jubilee law of Judaism, Leviticus 25. So it even was actually built in to religion, but by the time Jesus appeared and said he’d come to restore the clean slate in his first sermon, you had the Roman oligarchy taking over. And Rome rewrote the whole law and completely changed the course of civilization, certainly of Western civilization, and said all the debts have to be paid. There are not going to be any debt cancelations. We’re not in a democracy. Well, for five centuries, from about the sixth century B.C. in Greece, down to the end of the republic with Augustus in Rome, you had revolts at urging debt cancelation and a land redistribution. There were constant revolts. In Rome, the secessions of the plebs, there was civil war. There was civil war in Greece. Democracy in Greece began with leaders called the tyrants who were reformers who kicked out the oligarchy and canceled the debts and redistributed the land. Well, that stopped being done and the result was a dark age.

So you have Western civilization, ever since Rome having a stop go, stop go. You’ll have the dust build up. It’ll lead to a crash, to austerity, and the whole world now is being subjected to what the International Monetary Fund subjected third world countries to. If you want to see where the US economy is going. Look at what happened to Greece when the International Monetary Fund and Obama personally and Tim Geithner, his treasury secretary, told Europe, you can’t forgive Greeks’ debts because the American banks have written default contracts on these and we’d lose money. So to save my constituency, the banks from losing money, you have to create a permanent depression in Greece. Well, that principle of Obama is exactly the principle that Biden is following today. Biden and the Democratic Party and the Republicans say it is worth plunging America into depression. It’s worth impoverishing it just so the upper one percent of creditors and the banks will not lose. And it’s why the economy is polarizing, not converging.

Paul Jay
My memory is it wasn’t that long ago there was a bill that would allow students to declare bankruptcy and avoid student debt and then they wouldn’t do it. They exempted student debt from that.


Michael Hudson
I know, it was Biden who was the head of the committee that rewrote the bankruptcy law to prevent student debt from being written off. It was Biden who locked in student debt. You’d think that maybe he would say here’s a chance to undo the great error that I did, grinding down student debt. Basically, if he would have vocalized what he said, he would have said, I want to make students so poor that they have to pay student debts so high that they can’t afford to buy a home. They can’t afford to get a mortgage because they already owe the student debt. They can’t afford to start a family. They can’t afford to get married. That’s my policy. And that was the Democratic policy, and it was a bipartisan policy, of course. But Biden played the lead role in this awful bankruptcy law. And bankruptcy was supposed to be the one way of Western civilization’s alternative to a clean slate. They’re not going to wipe out all the debts as they did in the ancient near East, but they wipe that on a case by case basis, but thanks to Biden, he said, well, you can’t wipe out that student debt. We’re not going to let you do that. We’re going to tighten the rules so that it’s very hard for individuals to declare bankruptcy. Only our constituency, the banks and the corporations are allowed to wipe down their debts, as you point out, which is why Obama was willing to bail out General Motors and the car companies, but not the debtors who were subject to the junk mortgages and all the bank fraud that you had Bill Black explain on your program.

Paul Jay
Well, I was just about to say, Bill Black’s point is that it’s the bankers, not the banks. The bankers loot their own banks as well as looting their customers and society. And when it comes to bankruptcy, the way the law works, the management of these companies, who have been paid bonuses and millions of dollars in salary, if the company goes down the toilet, they don’t lose any of their personal wealth. It’s all been separated through the bankruptcy laws and incorporation laws. So those individuals walk away, they may lose some stock or whatever, but they usually walk away rich. Whereas when it comes to student debt and individual family debt, there’s no such mechanism. And you can go bankrupt, but you lose everything you’ve got. You don’t just walk away scot free from your company.

Michael Hudson
And the amazing thing is that nobody is suggesting any alternative. Nobody is pointing that the debt really is a problem. Certainly if you take an economics course, it doesn’t appear in the economics courses and it doesn’t appear in the political discussion. You don’t have anyone, sort of a counterpart to Bernie Sanders talking about socialized medicine. You don’t have anyone talking about socialization of debt or writing down the debt or the fact that it’s debt that is grinding our economic growth to a halt. And also because people have to spend so much money on debt, not only are they not able to buy the goods and services they produce, but they’re not able to get jobs exporting because their cost of living is so high because they have to pay so much debt.

Paul Jay
Why in the United States, as compared to the other industrialized countries, has the cost of higher education so been put on the shoulders of students. There’s Nordic countries in Europe. I can’t remember exactly, I think Norway is one, but there’s a few others. Not only do they provide free education at the highest levels, they’ll even give it to anyone from around the world who goes there. They’ll give them free education. I believe in Germany, foreign students even get a stipend to go to school. Why did it develop so differently in the US?

Michael Hudson
Well, think of education as being like buying a house. If you buy a house, the price is however much a bank is going to lend you to buy a house. And the banks have loosened their mortgage terms and they’ve lent more and more debt to value ratio. Same thing in education. Once you privatize the educational system and once you provide a market for banks to finance it, banks are going to compete to lend more and more money to students and students will all take it on. And the student that initially created a huge market to the banks would essentially appear on every campus and they would lend more and more for the education. And so obviously, universities thought this was wonderful. If the bank will lend our students more, we’ll make more and more money. And so the schools turned into profit centers. New York University is a profit center, Columbia University, a profit center here in New York. And you can just look at the huge rise of endowments at Harvard, Yale, all over the country. Now schools are run as if they’re for profit. Quite apart from the actual for profit colleges, which don’t really provide education. They are only markets for banks to make debt or for the government to make loans to students that go directly to the universities regardless of what they do.

So it’s the privatization of education. In America, we do not believe that education is a human right or a social right. Everybody is free to get whatever education they can pay for. They’re free to get whatever medical care they can pay for. Other countries say, wait a minute, you don’t have to pay for human rights. But America has turned everything into a commodity. Education is a commodity to be bought and sold. Health care is a commodity sold and not only privatized, but it’s been financialized. And this is presented as capitalism, but it’s finance capitalism. It’s not industrial capitalism, which is why Norway and England and Germany are capitalist countries, but they haven’t financialized human needs and basic rights to the extent that the United States has.

Paul Jay
Well, I think that’s the key word, to the extent, because they’re certainly on the way there.

Michael Hudson
Yes, that’s the trend in the West and it’s pulling the whole western world into a full debt pyramid.

Paul Jay
So can you have the kind of debt relief you’re talking about wipe out student debt to start with? That seems to have more support than other kinds of debt. But can you have this kind of modern capitalism without this kind of debt? Isn’t it kind of inherent in financialization that they actually need large sections of the population in debt? And not only in the US, I mean, household debt is pretty high in most most industrialized countries.

Michael Hudson
Well, it’s inherent in financialization, but not in capitalism. The German economic miracle of 1947 might well be based on a debt cancelation. All domestic debts were canceled except for the debts that employers owed their employees for the monthly payment. And except for a minimum of bank accounts. And in Germany they wrote down the debts and the result is this made Germany a debt free economy and was able to take off and become Europe’s dominant industrial powers as it is today.


So, of course, you could have under capitalism a debt write down just as you had in ancient Babylonia, a debt write down and you had a thriving economy. And if you don’t write down the debts, you’re not going to have an economy of any form. You’re going to have austerity. And you’re going to have, in Rome’s case, a dark age.

Paul Jay
You had a lot of financialization in the 1920s. You had the big crash in the 30s, depression. But right after World War Two, financialization takes place throughout the capitalist world and it takes off like a rocket in the 1980s. But that horse has left the barn, hasn’t it? I don’t think you go back to capitalism that’s not financialized. In a sense I think it’s inevitable with modern capitalism.

Michael Hudson
That certainly is the trend now. But if you do not de-financialize the economy, then you’re going to have economic growth concentrated in countries that are not financialized, such as China, where finance is a public utility. The real key to make capitalism effective would be to keep money and bank and the credit and debt system as a public utility. China can afford to write down the debts and it doesn’t have a constituency to lose because the debts ultimately are owed to the People’s Bank of China, the central bank or the Bank of China. Capitalism can only succeed, certainly industrial capitalism, can only succeed if you don’t have finance crowding out industries. If you don’t have finance just absorbing the whole economy and making it really into an economy like ancient Rome.

Paul Jay
And of course, the irony of banking as a public utility and the finance sector’s opposition to that is they can’t exist without government subsidy and bailouts and all the rest. And actually, it kind of is a public utility, except for the people that owe the banks.

Michael Hudson
It’s an unregulated public utility, because, again, as Bill Black has explained, there’s been regulatory capture. The problem in the United States is the creation of the Federal Reserve by banks. The Federal Reserve was created in 1913 to move to make banking a private enterprise, not a public utility. And very explicitly to shift the center of money creation and credit and credit rules away from Washington, towards Wall Street and Philadelphia and Boston, and to decentralize it, to get the government out of the credit and debt system and let the creditors run wild over the economy. That was what they said the result was. They even removed the secretary of the Treasury from membership on the Federal Reserve Board at that time. This was a new class war. And it wasn’t the kind of class war that Marx warned about. It was a class war of finance against the rest of the economy. It was a resurgence of the rentier economy, except the rentiers in the 20th century and the 21st century are the creditors and the bankers and the financial institutions, not the landlords.

Paul Jay
So we’ll have to see if there’s a people’s movement that can make this demand of banking as a public utility because it seems to me, among other things, it’s hard to imagine a climate change policy that’s going to actually be effective without weakening the power of the finance sector.

Michael Hudson
Well, right now, I don’t see how you can have a meaningful climate change policy if the largest market for banks are the oil industry and the mining industry. And they intend to keep it that way. You have the interest of the banks and the financial sector diametrically opposed to doing anything about global warming or about any kind of social or environmental reform. That’s why when President Obama was pushing for the TPP, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, and the TTIP with Europe, an element of that was the private ports. The government lost any authority to enforce environmental rules against any foreign investor. And so the whole world would have turned out to be Chevron versus Ecuador. Any government that would impose an environmental rule about pollution or global warming could be sued for damages so that the company would have made as much money as it would have made if it would have continued to pollute and destroy the environment. That was Obama’s great thrust, hoping to finally drive a nail into American democracy. And that was largely why he was voted out, because people were so appalled at the hypocrisy and the support of corporations against government, against civilization. That was what the TPP and the TTIP were.

Paul Jay
All right, well, this is just the beginning of the conversation, Michael. Thank you. And also for people that want to see more of Bill Black, Michael’s mentioned him a couple of times, I’ve just started publishing a series of interviews with Bill on the history of American financial fraud, starting with the S&L crisis in the 80s and we’re taking it up to today.

Michael Hudson
I was hosting, when Ralph Nader wrote a study of Citibank, the group all met at my backyard in New York, and the lawyers working on fraud got very disappointed in what Nader was doing at that time with Citibank because they all realized the problem wasn’t at that time fraud. It was that it was all legal. So the worst thing about the financial system is it’s legal. It’s not fraud. In other words, when the banks do it, it’s not fraud, to paraphrase Richard Nixon. Now, obviously, Ralph Nader subsequently has moved toward more reform and meanwhile, real fraud has taken place because of the regulatory capture. But the real problem is the structuring of the financial system itself. Even without fraud, the system is headed towards economic polarization, austerity and disaster.

Paul Jay
Thanks very much, Michael. And thank you for joining us on Please don’t forget the donate button and all of that. And we’ll see you again soon.

(Republished from The Analysis by permission of author or representative)
• Category: Economics • Tags: Debt, Joe Biden, Student Debt 
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  1. A123 says:

    Cancelling Student Debt while keeping programs that create that debt generates “Moral Hazard”. People would be encouraged to take out more debt than that cannot be repaid in anticipation of a future debt amnesty.

    Ending all federal Student Loan programs eliminates the future risk. Colleges would have to return to pre-loan models of student aid, scholarships, etc. Once the decision to Slay the Beast has been locked in, a rational discussion about Student Loan amnesty can be held. Without the burden of “Moral Hazard”, cancelling existing debt is much more likely to occur.

    PEACE 😇

  2. Kill fiat currency and replace it with sound money and all these debt problems vanish.

    • Disagree: IronForge
  3. SafeNow says:

    To avoid debt, I had my arms in the dining-hall pot sink for four years. This meant less time for study — like studying economics, so that I could better understand this great essay. Pot-sink people (nice metaphor, don’t you think?) like me would feel like dupes if debt were cancelled. (But I can give you a Pro Tip: Instead of scrubbing your pots, fill the sink with sudsy water, and let them soak. Walk away. Do something else. When you return, your task will be much easier.)

  4. Mark G. says:

    I can understand why Democrats would support canceling student debt. Young people who go to college are indoctrinated in woke leftism and turned into future Democrat voters. Middle aged former college students carrying heavy college student debt burdens serve as an object lesson to others what a bad idea it is to get worthless degrees and scares potential students off.

    Encouraging fewer people to go to college would be a good thing. They would no longer be indoctrinated with bad ideas, no longer get degrees that have little market value due to an overabundance of people with college degrees and could spend time getting vocational training that would lead to a job or just immediately go out and start working instead of wasting four years of their lives. There would be the additional benefit that many of the mostly liberal professors and swarms of college admin people would lose their jobs as college enrollments contracted. What’s the downside here? I don’t see it.

    It’s true we waste money in other ways like bailing out Wall Street but the solution to that is stop doing that too. Just because we do one stupid thing doesn’t make it a good idea to do another stupid thing. I do have a little sympathy for some of those suckered into taking out these loans. Some of them obviously weren’t very bright and were taken advantage of. If they can’t pay off the loans, the colleges who gave them the worthless degrees should be at least partially responsible for paying them off.

  5. ruralguy says:
    @Mark G.

    You nailed it Mark G. In our egalitarian society, everyone wants the college experience, but only the top 10% or so of students have the cognitive skills to handle “real” advanced college learning. So, colleges offer worthless degrees and their worthless accompanying socialist indoctrination, to give them the illusion they are college students and equals to the professionals. This government pays heavily to maintain this illusion.

    Today’s participation-award all-A students want to believe they are special, but that illusion will not square with reality as they get older.

  6. Aside from the references made to the climate change hoax by Paul Jay, who I haven’t seen on video for about 4 years–and I wish I saw more of him–and Michael Hudson, I again wish he was a stronger speaker on these issues. It would seem that what is he saying is that the United States is utterly doomed. I just don’t ever see him push for anything at all.

    It’s depressing but maybe that’s Hudson’s role. Nice closing music though.

  7. Biff says:

    Great explanation of how money = debt and debt = money..

  8. dawg says:

    The govt can cancel student debt, and no one will complain? Hardly. No one except the millions of us who worked our way through college, or borrowed and paid it back. If you’re going to forgive $50k of student debt for any, then everyone who ever paid their college bills likewise gets 50 grand.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @FvS
  9. T.Rebon says:

    Nice too see how the US, the most predatory system ever been, kill itself.

  10. Rosie says:

    Colleges would have to return to pre-loan models of student aid, scholarships, etc.

    Yawn. The tiresome reactionary go-back-to-the-way-it-was approach. Of course, you way it was sucked unless you had rich parents.

  11. Rosie says:

    Pot-sink people (nice metaphor, don’t you think?) like me would feel like dupes if debt were cancelled.

    By all means, let’s sacrifice tens of millions of young lives so that SafeNow doesn’t have to “feel like a dupe.”

    Nevermind the fact that it’s been decades since pot-scrubbing could make a dent in a semesters tuition.

    • Replies: @frontier
    , @Alden
  12. Rosie says:

    The govt can cancel student debt, and no one will complain? Hardly. No one except the millions of us who worked our way through college, or borrowed and paid it back. If you’re going to forgive $50k of student debt for any, then everyone who ever paid their college bills likewise gets 50 grand.

    If you paid off 50K in debt, then you obviously had the means to do so, for which you should be grateful.

    Many kids today have already paid the money back and then some, but interest and fees have added up to the point where they now owe more than they originally borrowed.

    There may well be a better approach than 50K off for all, but even that would be a great deal better than nothing.

    • Replies: @Thomasina
    , @SolontoCroesus
  13. University education today is essentially fraud, the equivalent of high school a century ago. When is this going to be addressed? Loans are downstream, and a distraction.

    If you don’t qualify for a professional license within a year or two of being graduated [sic], perhaps you are due for a conversation with someone who does hold a professional license!

    • Agree: ruralguy, GomezAdddams
  14. Thomasina says:

    “If you paid off 50K in debt, then you obviously had the means to do so, for which you should be grateful.”

    Rosie, people should actually stop and “think” before taking out a loan. Actually stand back and think about it. They should formulate in their brains the thought: “I have to pay this loan back. How am I going to do this?”

    You don’t sign a contract, take the money, and then say, “Well, things didn’t work out, so there you go. But I’ll keep the degree, thank you very much.” Talk about entitled.

    How about working and saving up for your education first? I know someone who is doing this. Yes, your education is delayed, but in the end you don’t owe anybody anything. This extra time also allows the student to think long and hard about whether they want to attend at all; they discover how serious they are. They ask hard questions like: is it worth it? Am I university material?

    The problem occurred when the government backed these student loans. Prior to that, banks actually asked hard questions of the would-be students before handing out the loans. Most people attending university are not even university-material; they shouldn’t be there at all. They should have been rejected. But since the government is backing the loans, the banks have been handing out money like candy to these students.

    These students created “demand”, which pushed prices up into the stratosphere. They did it to themselves.

    I read somewhere that the average student loan is around $10,000.00. Most people can pay that back over a number of years. I understand they probably don’t want to, seeing that it got them nowhere, but nobody twisted their arm to make them take out a loan. It’s a good lesson for them: don’t bite off more than you can chew.

  15. Franz says:

    Michael Hudson:

    …it was Biden who was the head of the committee that rewrote the bankruptcy law to prevent student debt from being written off. It was Biden who locked in student debt.

    It was the Buy American and Jobs USA in the closing years of the last century who tried to get the country to pay full tuition for all levels of education. It was Biden’s job to torpedo it.

    No citizen ASKED the government for enforced education in the first place. Only busybodies and Horace Greeley. But since they force 12 years on everyone — why withhold the portion that matters, Level Three? It is obvious there is a national need to have educated people. Let the nation then pay for them.

    This would mean seriously stripping down institutions of higher learning from the PC peddlers they’ve become. Let’s have all education paid for, as grade school and high school already are, and get it over with.

    I would have no problem allowing the Fed to issue rebates to the hard-working people who paid their own way up till now. Stimulate the economy!

  16. jsinton says:

    Two wrongs narry a right make, Mr. Hudson. You can’t fix too much debt by increasing the debt. You can make “equity” among bad actors, nothing more. Then we still have the debt to pay off. I say let the system crash and let God and good decisions sort it out.

  17. Rosie says:

    Thomasina, I’m afraid this post is uncharacteristically incoherent. You’re all over the place, here.

    How about working and saving up for your education first?

    How do you do that when, as a result of credential inflation, all the decent-paying jobs require a degree, job-related or not?

    These students created “demand”, which pushed prices up into the stratosphere. They did it to themselves.

    Here you admit that prices are out of control because of federally-guaranteed loans, then you turn around and blame students themselves for the high prices. No student is to blame for the decisions of students from 10, 20, or 30 years ago. Are homebuyers likewise to blame for high housing prices? Are patients to blame for high health care costs?

    Speaking of health care, why are old people entitled to infinity free health care young people aren’t entitled to a free tertiary education?

    Your point about too many people getting a university degree is well-taken, but that is a problem with the functioning of the labor market, the resolution of which must be collective, not individual. Because they can, employers use college degrees as a screening tool.

    I read somewhere that the average student loan is around $10,000.00.

    I’m sorry but this is not a useful statistic, even if it happens to be true. It masks the horror stories of total ruin that will cripple them for the rest of their lives. It was long ago decided that this should not happen. That’s why we have bankruptcy laws. There is no reason at all why student loans shouldn’t be subject to this same procedure. I understand that this would cost the government money, because the government guarantees the loans, but then that raises the question of why students pay substantial interest on their loans, which are virtually risk-free for the lender.

    Again, as I said in my original post, the students have often already paid the money back and then some. At the very least, debts should be cancelled for these students, excepting a small service fee for the lender of, say 5% to compensate for their minimal risk. Indeed, this would probably be the ideal solution for a number of reasons, and much less likely to alienate people who paid their loans off themselves.

    It’s a good lesson for them:

    Your focus on teaching kids a lesson would seem to justify any practice, however abusive and predatory, that might likewise be instructive.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Thomasina
    , @RobinG
  18. Rosie says:

    Thomasina, another factor you have to take into account is the effect of the mass media on public perceptions about the value of a college degree.

    When our industrial base was shipped off to China, Americans were told that we were going to move up the value chain and do skilled jobs. Now, employers want to import foreigners for those jobs. They can’t very well say to Congress, “Yes, there are plenty of qualified Americans I can hire, but I prefer desperate Third-World indentured Servants. They’re more manageable.”

    So what do they do? They lie and say they can’t find any Americans. Politicians know they’re lying but take their money and do their bidding anyway. Their b!tches in the corporate media run cover by parroting their lies about a “tech shortage.” Naive young people, naturally, believe them. Next thing you know, you have an engineering grad with 200K in debt and no engineering job nor hope of ever finding one.

    Even if they do land a job in their field, the industry will chew them up and spit them out long before they’ve paid that money back.

    • Replies: @Thomasina
  19. Smith says:

    No, it wouldn’t.

    A debt in fiat money is the same shit as a debt in gold.

    The problem is debt.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
    , @frontier
  20. Anonymous[277] • Disclaimer says:

    And that without a doubt is why China, will graduate a million to our paltry few thousand of engineers and tech, experts seeing their education is free. And people whine cry moan and bitch because China is the leading economic power in the world.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @Thomasina
  21. Biden won’t cancel student debt simply because he never intended to. HE IS A LIAR.

    • Agree: TKK
  22. @Smith

    There is a limit on the amount of gold available, not so with out of thin air fiat currency.

    The relative scarcity of gold versus paper currency means that all projects can’t be funded just because some politician decides he needs to get reelected. Therefore the amount of debt that can be accommodated in the system is also limited. Any attempted increase in debt would trigger an increase in the prevailing interest rate and that too limits the overall amount of debt the society can tolerate.

    Why do you think the Fed Gov went along with the Federal Reserve scheme if not to cheat the people to enrich themselves by becoming worthless politicians that leach off the working people?

    You should be ashamed of yourself for having attained adulthood without realizing how money, not currency, works. Gold is money. Dollars are currency. There’s a huge difference between them. I suggest you view the entire Hidden Secrets of Money series from Mike Maloney.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @MarkinLA
  23. Smith says:

    If anything, the scarcity of gold makes it even a worse debt than fiat, since it is actually countable and enforceable, such a system means gold hoarder essentially dictates trade.

    And no, having a limit on spending does not solve the problem, since the problem is not the spending, but the debt that the enforcers come to reap.

    And money is a convenience, it’s not a valuable like human or resources (food, fuel), and should not be placed above them.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  24. Thomasina @ 14

    … people should actually stop and “think” before taking out a loan. Actually stand back and think about it. They should formulate in their brains the thought: “I have to pay this loan back. How am I going to do this?”

    Generally, that is good advice but student loans made for the purpose of an education are a different matter. My advice to several has been the most important thing is to do whatever you have to in order to get your advanced education. Worry about how you’ll pay the loan back later after you graduate but don’t let that stop you from your educational goals. It is a mistake to regard student loans as simply a commercial transaction. Society benefits as well when the level of education of the public is enhanced. It’s not like taking out a loan to buy a sports car.

    • Replies: @Mark G.
    , @Thomasina
    , @Theone
  25. @Smith

    A defaulted on debt denominated in gold or anything tangible is no more enforceable than it is in currency. Money spent on activities that produce not enough profit to repay the loan means the money is gone and at best the lender may get the scraps left over from a bankruptcy. Where do you come up with this nonsense?

    And no, having a limit on spending does not solve the problem, since the problem is not the spending, but the debt that the enforcers come to reap.

    Your own statement contradicts itself.

    And money is a convenience, it’s not a valuable like human or resources (food, fuel), and should not be placed above them.

    Money is the commonly agreed upon medium of exchange for the wants and needs of everyone. Yes, it is a convenience as opposed to barter. No one is placing money above anything. Money is the accounting system for trading to keep the population alive and thriving and as such it is important to have money that isn’t debased by the political and banker class.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @showmethereal
  26. “The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks.”
    Lord Acton

    • Agree: Thomasina, TheTrumanShow
  27. Thomasina says:

    “And people whine cry moan and bitch because China is the leading economic power in the world.”

    China had their leading economic position handed to them by the greedy U.S. multinationals who went into China to use their cheap labor and no environmental controls. The Chinese elite welcomed them because they knew they would become filthy rich off this arrangement. The pimps and the whores both profited.

    China has also had the huge advantage of using already-existing and painstakingly-discovered knowledge and technology that others have already mastered for them. China printed a ton of money and either sent their students overseas to learn from the masters or hired the masters to teach in their universities. Call me when they disprove the Laws of Thermodynamics.

    The U.S. spends a large part of its budget on a ridiculous military. The same greedy people profit. If they were to redirect some of this money into the education system, that would be a good thing, although it probably wouldn’t help much because the jobs were offshored to China – on purpose – along with the technology. What’s the good of having engineers if they’re not needed?

    China has been U.S.-made. Call it the “foreign” affirmative action program.

    So, no, people don’t cry, moan and bitch because China has done something special. They cry, moan and bitch because the U.S. government handed the “something special” to China on a silver platter. Treason.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  28. Mark G. says:
    @Lawrence Miller

    Society benefits as well when the level of education of the public is enhanced.

    The mistake you are making here is that in your mind going to school = education. Often what is happening now in college is just indoctrination in what our ruling class wants everyone to believe. Would you say that what was taught in the schools in Nazi Germany or Maoist China was education just because it was happening in a school classroom? Why do you think we are immune from that happening here?

    As for the idea of going to college and worrying about paying for it later, that’s a bad idea. You first want to think about whether what you are getting is worth the time and money spent getting it. In addition to college not necessarily leading to you becoming a truly educated person, it also may not lead to the other reason people go to college, getting a better paying job. In many fields there are more graduates than job openings. This is the result of dumbing down the curriculum so more people can get degrees. People observed that college graduates make more money and then drew the conclusion that by giving more people degrees we will make them richer. You will usually find that the people who think printing up more college diplomas and passing them out will then cause their recipients to become richer are the same people who think that having the government print up more money and passing it out will make people richer.

    • Agree: Thomasina, europeasant
  29. @Rosie

    you don’t deserve a university education if you don’t have rich parents. It needs to become an elite institution again, preferably by banning women, Jews, and poor people — but especially poor women.

    As one of the few millennials that post here, the worst way to drag anything down is to let working class women near the levers of power or anywhere near knowledge. My generation has had to deal with this paradigm most acutely, and it’s why I found greener pastures in China with my advanced degree.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @Rosie
    , @TKK
  30. @A123

    Typical Jew wants to shylock the goyim without the government as competition.

    • Agree: HeebHunter
    • Replies: @HeebHunter
  31. Thomasina says:
    @Lawrence Miller

    “Worry about how you’ll pay the loan back later after you graduate but don’t let that stop you from your educational goals.”

    And how is that working out now, Lawrence? Look at all the people who can’t find jobs in their “chosen” professions. I mean, if you’re going to become a doctor, yes, but a lot of the student debt was taken out pursuing courses that were never going to amount to anything and by students who never really thought it through. Heck, students in Computer Science are now being replaced by students from India because they’re cheaper.

    The amount of clipboard administrators in the higher education and health “industries” is way out of proportion to the boots on the ground teachers and doctors/nurses. Like another “clipboard administrator” adds anything! We do need more doctors, but the doctors themselves, being part of a union they like to call an “association”, don’t want more doctors because they want to keep the price up for their services. Supply and demand.

    The country has been gutted, fileted and offshored. What’s left has been financialized to garner maximum profits for the elites.

    Too many people took out loans for an education they’re probably never going to use and now – NOW – they have second thoughts. Too bad they didn’t have a “first” thought. They were ill-advised by parents who get their news from the MSM, parents who are asleep regarding what their government is doing to the country.

    On the advice of my family, I saved up and paid cash for my first car. They advised me that when you take out a loan, you’re really just renting the car, plus you end up paying two to three times the price of the car. Now that is good advice.

    All these educational loans have done is made a bunch of administrators wealthy and pushed the price of education into the stratosphere. Supply and demand again. Stop playing their game!

    • Replies: @HbutnotG
  32. Thomasina says:

    But many of the people graduating high school (or for that matter “elementary school”) can’t even read, write or do simple math because the educational system has been so dumbed-down.

    A psychiatrist was describing what happened when he asked prison inmates to read. After struggling through reading the paragraph out loud, the psychiatrist then asked them to explain what they just read. They couldn’t. They were so focused on just sounding out the words that the meaning of what was said was completely lost.

    I think we need to get back to basics. I couldn’t believe the amount of PC stuff my children were taught in school and the amount of time it took away from their learning. I remember saying to my daughter, “Another assembly? When do you find time for learning?”

    It takes a lot for someone to learn how to read. I remember flash carding my children. I essentially taught them how to read! If I had left it up to the school system, they would have come out as idiots. That’s why I stepped up.

    Parents (and they’re starting to wake up) need to starting getting vocal about what’s happening in their schools. They need to demand that schools get back to basics and drop this PC nonsense. After all, they’re paying for this through THEIR tax dollars.

    And get rid of the kids that are disrupting the classrooms and throw it back on the parents, the very same parents who are constantly being bailed out of every bad decision they make in life. Push it back on their laps and tell THEM to step up.

    Such an entitled society, a culture that is eating itself. A culture that continues to put a Band-Aid on a severed artery.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Franz
  33. Thomasina says:

    Rosie – yes, we are being lied to. WMD, Russiagate, Covid, the last election; the list goes on. But it appears that people have to be stung before they wise up. They’ve just been stung.

    When everything is going along fine, people don’t pay attention. They can be surrounded with corruption, bribery, monopoly control and collusion between government and corporations (pharma, big tech, media, banking, etc.), but as long as THEY’RE okay, they don’t care what happens much to the country.

    If everybody just keeps getting bailed out, then the necessary pain and anger doesn’t materialize. This pain is necessary for change to occur. That’s the problem with the current society. They get bailed out, and then nothing changes until they need to get bailed out again.

    Yes, this is all coming from the government who have sold out the country. But it’s going to take pain and wise citizens to get rid of the whole lot of them. Wisdom is hard-fought. It has to be.

  34. Smith says:

    A defaulted on debt denominated in gold or anything tangible is no more enforceable than it is in currency

    Yes it does, since the enforcers would take away all the gold or gold-backed currency from the indebted, leaving them nothing, they can’t even trade for food since food costs gold in this case.

    And that doesn’t into account interest/usury, which is fully compatible with the gold-standard, which can put you into a debt-slavery situation where you are forced to work to pay off your debt in gold.

    On the other hand, this means that gold-hoarding country will dictate trade and can destroy economies at will by adjusting the value of gold.

    Thus, it’s even more dangerous than having a government-printed fiat money where the people can use to trade as long as the government can print, no matter how much gold anyone owns.

    Your own statement contradicts itself.

    How? Assuming I get into a traffic accident, and I don’t have enough money, thus I must take a loan to save myself and get a surgery, the fact I’m spending/taking a loan isn’t evil, it’s the fact sooner or later the enforcers will come and ask for the money plus interests that I take in order to save my life is evil.

    No one is placing money above anything. Money is the accounting system for trading to keep the population alive and thriving and as such it is important to have money that isn’t debased by the political and banker class.

    You place it above people by making it scarce in the first place, when it isn’t supposed to be. The gold-standard system makes it so that gold-hoarders hold more power than anyone else.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  35. Smith says:
    @Supply and Demand

    In China, education costs lesser money than the US, but it is harder to get into because it requires higher intelligence and dedication.

    This is why despite having more people than the US, the chinese are more educated than american.

    It seems you have learned nothing during your stay in China, and are still in mindset of worship of the “elites”.

  36. @Smith

    I don’t know if your obtuse or trolling.

    When someone takes out a loan, it’s not to put it under their bed in either fiat or gold form. They take out the loan to spend it on a business venture, a car, a house, etc. The fiat or gold is spent and therefore no one can go to collect it. They can repossess a house or car, but something like business losses in a corporation are gone, irretrievable except for getting the assets, if there are any, of the business.

    which can put you into a debt-slavery situation where you are forced to work to pay off your debt in gold.

    There is no debt slavery any longer. People declare bankruptcy and a judge settles the issue. If the debtor has assets the court may seize them as part of the settlement and that is true for gold or fiat. There’s no difference.

    this means that gold-hoarding country will dictate trade and can destroy economies at will by adjusting the value of gold.

    Absolutely, and is as it should be. I expect China to eventually back their currency at least partially with gold since they already have gold as settlement in their oil markets.

    Your traffic accident word salad is hard to digest but I’ll give it a try. If you take out a loan for surgery, to gamble in Vegas, to do drugs, to party with women, etc, the money is gone and no one can get it back regardless if its gold or fiat. They may send you nasty letters and even try collections, but you can’t get something that no longer exists.

    gold-hoarders hold more power than anyone else.

    Gold hoarders, currency hoarders, rich people in general have the most power in the current system. The fact that it’s gold or oil or stock certificates or Federal Reserve Notes makes no difference.

    • Replies: @Smith
  37. Smith says:

    They can repossess a house or car, but something like business losses in a corporation are gone, irretrievable except for getting the assets, if there are any, of the business.

    I don’t think the part they can’t retrieve the money/gold matter here, it’s the fact they can seize my shit and leave me in destitute (no money, no car, no house) that is the problem here. That’s why debt forgiven matter, not what the debt is made, gold or fiat.

    There is no debt slavery any longer. People declare bankruptcy and a judge settles the issue. If the debtor has assets the court may seize them as part of the settlement and that is true for gold or fiat. There’s no difference.

    Which again, leave you in destitute. Or you can delay the repossession, and work for your ass off to pay the debt, which means debt-slavery.

    Absolutely, and is as it should be. I expect China to eventually back their currency at least partially with gold since they already have gold as settlement in their oil markets.

    China is trying to hoard gold AND trying to make digital yuan at the same time, so they can pay for gold, oil, and precious materials with funny paper/bit of data.
    They are smart, and no, they won’t go back to the gold standard.

    If you take out a loan for surgery, to gamble in Vegas, to do drugs, to party with women, etc, the money is gone and no one can get it back regardless if its gold or fiat. They may send you nasty letters and even try collections, but you can’t get something that no longer exists.

    As you yourself said above, they can seize my house, my bike, my properties and leave me a homeless man. You think that’s OK?

    Gold hoarders, currency hoarders, rich people in general have the most power in the current system. The fact that it’s gold or oil or stock certificates or Federal Reserve Notes makes no difference.

    There’s a difference, with fiat you can trade regardless if you own gold-backed currency or not, thus means there’s more leeway than the gold standard.

    Fiat effectively gives a fighting chance to gold-starved country, thus it’s infinitely better than being servants of gold-hoaders.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  38. Rosie says:
    @Supply and Demand

    but especially poor women.

    Meanwhile, here on planet Earth, working-class White women are the most sensible of voters. They have no use for Zionist wars that will get their sons killed and exhaust the wealth of the nation while our infrastructure crumbles before our very eyes.

    My generation has had to deal with this paradigm most acutely, and it’s why I found greener pastures in China with my advanced degree.

    Good. We don’t need your sort here.

  39. One idea that nearly all Americans would find acceptable would be for him to cancel part of the debt owed (up to $10,000) on accumulated interest. The Feds charge banks 1% but have charged students 4-7%. This would not cancel any debt based on money the student borrowed, just the interest charged. Many owe more in interest than the money they actually borrowed.

  40. TKK says:

    There is a minuscule loophole to discharge student debt in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy – extraordinary hardship.

    To show how hard this burden is to meet, I knew a lawyer that had a client who lost both of his legs in a car accident, was blind and had a colostomy bag. His school loans were around $189K to for undergrad and masters in Physical Therapy.

    His condition prevented him from working. He was basically a crying lump of a man.

    So, he has no legs, blind, the bag and is clinically depressed. Bankruptcy judge, middle district of Florida- denied it. The student debt stands.

    One terrible little detail the article left out was that several states: Montano and South Dakota- will suspend your driver’s license if you default on student loans.

    14 states will suspend your professional license if you default., ie. take away your nursing license if you default on the loan. I guess you could deliver Dominos to pay the loans back. But not in Montana. They cripple you as much as they can. You could ride your bike to the Family Dollar in a swirling blizzard to pay back the loans.

    When people get high and mighty about students paying back their loans, think of the APPALLING debt that Obama wiped clean for banks to gamble on subprime mortgage bundles. Debt paid by tax payers.

    Golden parachutes for the architects of the losses. No one of these vultures went to prison. We paid their way to their yacht waiting on the Amalfi Coast and resumed lives of decadent luxury while us chumps paid the bill.

    If you truly dwell on the US and its constant war on the working class, you would just leave. Walk away and never look back.

    • Agree: Fred777
    • Thanks: some_loon
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Rosie
  41. MarkinLA says:

    There is a limit on the amount of gold available

    There is no limit to what our economy can produce so how does that work when we only have so much money in circulation and it can only grow based on how much gold we can pull out of the ground or get from other countries?

    What we have now is far from perfect but the problem isn’t debt, it is allowing people to borrow money they obviously can never pay back. We have well developed models for loan repayment for most things at the retail level. Banks used to do a pretty good job of gauging risk and managing it at the commercial level.

    It’s only when we abandon those controls do we see some crisis – like the commercial real estate meltdown of the 1990s or the mortgage crisis of 2008. We had decades of crisis free growth from the 1930s on in real estate because banks and mortgage lenders stuck to the guidelines.

    • Agree: Thomasina
    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  42. Thomasina says:

    Rosie – I always find expressing myself in writing a lot harder than in person.

    “These students created “demand”, which pushed prices up into the stratosphere. They did it to themselves.”

    I did not mean to imply that they did it intentionally. What I meant, and did not express well, is that most people just follow the herd of buffalo over the cliff. This is how the rich get richer: they create fear and they create demand. It’s a business plan. The first ones in do quite well, but the last ones in get hammered because by that time costs have risen and they can no longer work at Safeway while paying for their education like the previous students did.

    “Don’t worry, the jobs going to China will just be replaced with higher quality jobs.” Ross Perot warned about the “giant sucking sound” going south. Had he said “east”, he would have been bang on. Sir James Goldsmith tried to warn people too, along with others. They were ignored. The U.S. multinationals and the politicians are still laughing.

    They purposely under-report the true rate of inflation, claiming 2% instead of 8 to 10%. “I don’t care what numbers you use. Just make sure the dial reads ‘2%’.” Again, they’re laughing.

    The citizens are running on a treadmill, exhausted, while the elite are sipping champagne on some yacht moored off an island you and I have never heard of.

    The banks need to be split up and strict rules put in place, with jail-time for non-compliance. No more bailouts for them. The lying media need to be split up into a thousand pieces. Big Tech and other monopolies need to be crushed.

    And ordinary citizens have got to stop getting sucked into more and more debt. As I said the other day, when you’re in debt up to your eyeballs, you can’t open your mouth for fear of losing your livelihood. That’s a bad place to be. The herd needs to turn around and go the other way.

    • Agree: Rosie, Fred777
  43. MarkinLA says:

    Meanwhile, here on planet Earth, working-class White women are the most sensible of voters.

    That’s why they voted for Biden because they didn’t like Trump’s tweets. And oh yes, “children in cages”.

    • Agree: europeasant
    • Replies: @Rosie
  44. TKK says:
    @Supply and Demand

    You stated the pampered scions of liberal families who think blacks are sacred, safe and sane…who honor people’s pronouns and campaigned for Hilliary..who have never done a hard day’s work in their lives are smarter than a working class woman who stands on her feet all day at a chicken plant and then goes home, cooks and manages a home?


    Who is that dumb?

    you don’t deserve a university education if you don’t have rich parents.

    DESERVE? I have a lot of problem with that word- deserve. People who were born on third base, whose only pedigree is that their mother bore a son…that’s what you base merit on?

    Again…who is that dumb?

    If you were to the manor born, you would not have to trudge to China to be a lowly Gweilo. Ha!

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
  45. Why Biden Won’t Cancel Student Debt

    And to kill a goose that lays golden eggs for the banksters at Wall Street? Unlikely.

  46. IronForge says:

    Rentier-Bankers, their FIRE+MIC+PetroUSD Vassals. Looting Nation-States from Within and Abroad…

  47. MarkinLA says:

    Damned if you do…..

    The reason why student debts are not dischargeable is because the people most likely to use the bankruptcy laws to get out of paying when they were, were the people with the highest probability of paying them off and the largest debts – doctors and lawyers.

  48. Rosie says:

    That’s why they voted for Biden because they didn’t like Trump’s tweets. And oh yes, “children in cages”.

    What utter nonsense. Trump won non-college White women by +27 in 2016, and he won them by the same margin in 2020.

  49. RobinG says:

    ….why are old people entitled to infinity free health care….

    They’re not! [They aren’t given it, is what I’m saying. Not in this country, anyway.] Is that a myth going around in your circles? Something you should look into before tossing around such misinformation.

  50. Rosie says:

    You could ride your bike to the Family Dollar in a swirling blizzard to pay back the loans.

    Uphill both ways.

    Golden parachutes for the architects of the losses. No one of these vultures went to prison. We paid their way to their yacht waiting on the Amalfi Coast and resumed lives of decadent luxury while us chumps paid the bill.

    The student loan racket is the most egregious and in-your-face instance of privatizing the gains and socializing the losses I have ever seen.

    I hope there is a special place in hell reserved for the judge that denied bankruptcy relief to that poor man.

  51. Dr. Doom says:

    Kill the Federal Reserve and half the debts in the country simply disappear.
    The Rothschild House is built on debts.
    Any jubilee makes them shiver as the icy hands of death around their necks.

    Student debt is a ponzi scheme to finance the rotten universities.
    They are just Marxist training camps now.
    Cancelling student debts may end the entire scheme of Marxist universities.

    It would call into question the wisdom of going to these rotten institutions.
    It cannot even generate enough wages to pay for itself.
    That will be a sea change for the country…

  52. @Supply and Demand

    Half lie, half truth. As always.

  53. Franz says:

    get rid of the kids that are disrupting the classrooms and throw it back on the parents

    I’d express that point a little differently: We need New Economic Zones where the drones (both parents and children) can find fulfillment outside ANY education system and just work subsistence on the land we confiscate from Bill Gates and the Federal Government. (I won’t detail what that might take.) It’s clear to me that diversity of life itself demands a complete overhaul of the path education has taken since Greeley studied the Prussian model and imported it to the states. It has never worked.

    “Slow lane” people can live apart from the technological world, while participating in the fruits of the system by simply selling fresh food, etc, to the outside and getting what they want in return, cell phones to reasonably well constructed housing. There’s obviously a ton of ways to get all this done — start by telling our political class what real diversity would amount to.

    The strain is entirely borne by people who just don’t need the extra expense of uneducated barbarians. As a basic start, allow “reparations” in the form of land and a boost to get started for anyone now on public relief. We’d have a subnation larger than entire European nations quite quickly, and the relief might inspire more programs of that sort. It’s a shot worth taking.

  54. @RoatanBill

    I’m sympathetic to this point of view. A precious metal system certainly works as a MAJOR counterweight to currency debasement. There was an international gold system in place during the greatest economic boom in history. The middle class has been being destroyed since around 1970; it’s not a coincidence that the gold standard was ended at that time.

    By the same token, saying “all these debt problems” will vanish is certainly an overstatement. Even when they used actual gold and silver coins, there where major debt issues and also inflation and deflation. Paper claims exceeded actual gold stores as early as the middle ages. Fractional reserve banking was a thing even when their was a gold standard and even before that when currency was specie. (see bank of Amsterdam)

    Metallic standard has it’s uses, no doubt. But it isn’t a magic bullet like some people think. The people running the system are usually more important than the system itself. If your nation is run by Juden Banksters, you are going to be in major trouble with or without gold. If your nation is run by intelligent, patriotic, MORAL, diligent men, you don’t need gold to prosper.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  55. @Rosie

    To be fair, there are some decent white women who oppose the zionist wars and both corrupt parties. But they are a tiny minority. Generally speaking, white woman are incredibly gullible and some of the biggest flag waving, terminally foolish people on the planet. The vast majority support either of the mainstream parties, both totally sold out to the zionist banksters. Bush had huge support from whites after the 9/11 Mossad gig. As to their “sons” , whites are reproducing well below replacement rate. Again, there are exceptions. But generally speaking white women are probably the most far gone of any group. Baby killing, perverted, suicidal, feministic devils comes close to the mark.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  56. @A123

    Imagine the sheer gall of an unapologetic supporter of Zionazi child-butchery and racism pontificating on ‘moral hazard’. Just reading this troll’s shite is a moral and gastric hazard.

  57. @restless94110

    One perpetually wonders what moral, intellectual and psychological disease cause imbeciles to STILL decry anthropogenic climate destabilisation as a ‘hoax’ so late in the day. It goes way beyond Evil to some Stygian depths that sens shudders up the spine.

    • Replies: @Theone
    , @restless94110
  58. @Franz

    The Chinese are laughing their heads off at Yankee ‘democrazy’. Creating a society of enemy camps, heavily armed, wracked by inequality and increasing poverty, and united only in xenophobic hatred of ‘Chinks’, ‘gooks’, ‘sand niggers’ etc, is quite an achievement.

    • Agree: Jazman, Franz
  59. Dumbo says:

    I haven’t read the article which appears to be an interview transcript, but it’s quite clear that higher education in the US is hugely overvalued and they get money for nothing. It’s like a cartel. It’s not just student debt, a whole lot of universities should be cancelled, administrators and professors fired, the whole thing reduced to more logical proportions.

    Countries such as Germany have basically free or very cheap universities. But not everyone goes to college and there are other options of advancement.

    As for “Biden”, he’s a Wall Street stooge like all the others. It’s almost funny that Progs think that he will help students or struggling middle-class people or something.

  60. @Mark G.

    I agree with your premise. Screw these Communist Little Bastards who want the government to pay for their worthless degrees. It will only allow more of these clowns to go to college for more worthless degrees.

    Let these Marxist Indoctrination Centers formerly known as Colleges and Universities collapse into the dust pile of history. Allow these little creeps to compete for low paying jobs with all the illegal aliens they want to bring into this country.

    And finally Hudson always amazes me that he can’t see the 10,000 pound Jew in the room. He states that Biden wrote the law not to allow students to claim bankruptcy. Well Dr. Hudson whom do you think owns Biden?

    • Agree: TheTrumanShow
  61. frontier says:

    To avoid debt, I had my arms in the dining-hall pot sink for four years. This meant less time for study — like studying economics, so that I could better understand this great essay.

    This “essay” is as ignorant as they come. Washing dishes gives a lot more true knowledge than Hudson’s lies or those of modern economics – every popular econ theory is garbage peddled by fraudsters, eCON men, literally – a lot of them lie knowingly, like Hudson does.

    Hey Hudson, why don’t the cheating schools refund the tuition and the entire loans to the students who can’t find jobs? These schools wasted other peoples money for nothing, they should pay, not get richer – that’s the obvious market solution to this problem. Otherwise, “forgiveness” becomes a transfer of taxpayers hard-earned money to the communist educational establishment… of course, as member of it, that’s your real motivation…

    For example, Hudson is lying that “forgiving” student debt “wouldn’t cost the government a penny”, the government is a proxy for the taxpayers and it would cost them dearly – inflation would spike even more and it would surely go out of control. “Forgiving” debt is default, is printing money, is robbing the taxpayers via inflation. The Fed “buying” gov debt is banana republic inflationary counterfeiting, that’s the truth you aren’t going to learn in college. “Buying” non-marketable debt, aka “forgiveness”, is even worse, it’s totally unaccountable counterfeiting – it doesn’t show anywhere in the books and it doesn’t even give a phony promise to return anything.

    These days higher education is worthless, don’t waste your money on that pile of excrement, if you did and you’ve spent other peoples money to do it, ask your school for a refund to repay your debt. There’s only one true forgiveness – when the schools that cheated you out of your (borrowed) money, return it to you. With all of them being communist indoctrination centers, they’d also prove their bleeding hearts aren’t only for show.

  62. Smith says:

    The premier question should be: why the hell do you need to take a loan to get education in the first place?

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  63. Everything keeps coming back to demographics.

    Usurers and loansharks have a much more difficult time as the sole group of (((outsiders))) in monocultural nations.

    Monocultures vastly prefer investing in yoots who resemble themselves and will carry on language and traditions.

    In diverse s-holes it’s every race for itself, united only to prey on Whites.

  64. onebornfree says: • Website

    Get the government entirely OUT of all “education”, from pre-school/kindergarten through university.

    Just like anything else government is involved in, government funded “education” is a total scam, an indoctrination system to mould the young into obedient , moronic, passive citizen/slaves [like Hudson], who can never seriously question their idiot masters, because they’ve all been deliberately dumbed down via the “education” system.

    “Everything government touches turns to crap” Ringo Starr

    “Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure” Robert LeFevere

    “Government doesn’t work” Harry Browne

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Troll: bayviking
  65. More free stuff for the free stuff crowd.

    I went to U when critical thinking was still offered.

    Thus it was worth my paying my own school debts.

  66. gotmituns says:

    Most of these so-called students have no business in a college other than to possibly sweep and mop the floors. They should enter the skilled trades as apprentices and earn as they learn their trade, rather than sitting and wondering about how to get into Susie Rottencrotche’s draws for four years while at the same time piling up the stupid debt.

  67. frontier says:

    The problem is debt.

    You got that backwards. The problem is bailouts and bad debt policies. The reason bank bailouts should’ve never happened is the reason student loans should not be bailed out. By your logic, we should give money to anyone for the asking, not as a loan, no obligation to return, no debt, right? Do you know what is going to happen next?

    Hudson proposes the same but he’s more subtle, by his logic, the taxpayers should bail out student debt because the Fed have bailed out the banks a few times. In other words, we should undertake every wrong action because once upon a time a mistake was made. Apparently, he is professor of economics in a top US university, nobody else is dumb enough to utter such nonsense.

    Actually bank bailouts are still ongoing. The Fed is giving to the banks $50 billion of taxpayer money every month. Instead of Hudson calling for the stop of Fed’s lunatic policies, he’s using them as a precedent to call for more lunacy…

    Lunacy is a mild word to use for what’s going on. At the moment, banks have $4 Trillion in reserves, it’s “high powered money” parked at the Fed earning 0.1% interest from the taxpayers – $4 Billion per year pure profit courtesy of US taxpayers. At the same time, the Fed is giving the banks $50 billion of taxpayer money every month in exchange for MBS of dubious value. Why? The banks are overflowing with reserves, why give them more? Because the taxpayers get banks’ worthless MBS while the banks get taxpayers’ real money and earn interest on it as a bonus…

    Hey Hudson, why don’t you address Fed’s lunacy instead of promoting more of it because “it’s already happened anyway”.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @bayviking
  68. Iva says:

    Lets not forget “The 2000 Global Report” written by the “think tanks” for president Jimmy Carter. It order to have a peace we have to create “modern age slavery”. Students debts are this modern age slavery. 

  69. gent says:

    While true, the actual reasoning is the same as why you don’t let the horse eat the carrot before you’re at your destination.

  70. Iva says:

    Obama signed that the US will give Israel 38 billions in aid over 10 years . Israel has a free higher education. It looks like the US cares more about Israeli citizens then its own.

  71. frontier says:

    By all means, let’s sacrifice tens of millions of young lives so that SafeNow doesn’t have to “feel like a dupe.”

    Why do you want to “sacrifice tens of millions of young lives”, we should not sacrifice anybody, just ask them to pay off their debts. Immigration, both legal and illegal, is one of the reasons young graduates can’t find employment. Offshoring is another reason. Government red tape and over-regulation is a third reason. If you don’t want to sacrifice young people, and you shouldn’t, you must fight against the aforementioned government policies.

    I think, you mentioned elsewhere that a lot of that debt is interest, do you understand that a bailout would be paying the banks? I addition to paying the corrupt educational institutions, which, along with the banks, support offshoring, immigration, over-regulation and every other policy preventing their students from finding good paying jobs? Why are you asking the taxpayers to save the poor students when the money won’t go to them but to the most corrupt private institutions in the US – banks and education? Why should the taxpayers feed corruption? Can’t you address the guilty parties – banks and universities – and insist they forgive tuition and interest? At least? Why is everyone so sure the taxpayers owe a bailout to every corrupt schmuck out there?

  72. @Smith

    I’ve tried to reason with you but I see that’s impossible. You’re a broken record that keeps repeating the same thing trying to say that there’s some kind of difference between gold as money and fiat as currency from the debt collection side. From that side there is no difference but you want to believe there is.

    There is a huge difference prior to the initiation of debt. With gold there would be fewer debts in total units outstanding. That’s because gold is limited and loans in gold or gold backed money would necessarily have gold available to lend before lending commences. In the current system, the banks invent the money for the loan at the time the loan is made; a complete, but legal fraud.

    Sound money is hated by gov’t because it limits their opportunities to buy votes and to murder people via war. I happen to think those things are ruining the country. My final word to you.

    • Agree: St-Germain
    • Replies: @Smith
    , @Johnny Johnny
    , @Realist
  73. Much as I admire Michael Hudson and his common sense and humanitarian approaches to economics, I really feel that he is missing the boat when it comes to resolving the “debt problem” via some sort of national approach to it.

    I have believed for quite some time that the centralization of the economy is the core problem of our country. Nothing can occur that is structurally necessary as long as we maintain this nationalization of all of our problems. Human affairs occur on the local level and based on more localized group dynamics. The American enterprise is simply too large and unwieldy to correct structural problems. True “federalism” is the only answer. We must revert to a model more akin to that of the old Articles of Confederation that were supplanted by the US Constitution. You can call this a secessionist idea or whatever you like. But it is the only solution that is humanly and humanely likely to return our economic affairs to some semblance of rationality. Unfortunately “balkanization” has gotten a bad name because it is antithetical to empire. But it is the only realistic solution to the mess we are in.

    Our choice at this juncture is either to live in some totalitarian oligarchic monstrosity or to regain a semblance of our freedom via a breakup of the country into geographical and ethnic affinity arrangements. Don’t be shocked, please! “Equality” is a chimera. Freedom is real.

  74. Don’t worry all your money,WHITEYS money, is going to paying for low IQ black ghetto trash to get a free ride in college anyway,soooo,ooooga booooga

  75. @MarkinLA

    The value placed upon gold by the free market as a relatively scarce resource when compared to unlimited fiat is the piece of the puzzle you’re missing.

    With sound money the savings of people are valued to provide the funds for projects. They would earn interest on their funds appropriate to the risk they perceive. Today, there is no real risk assessment because the Fed has an unlimited tap of free flowing currency to backstop the banks and savers earn next to nothing. Projects that appear sound are funded at one rate and riskier projects at another. Asinine projects like sending a probe past Pluto to snap some pictures wouldn’t get funded at all. Wars and standing armies couldn’t exist as they currently do because of the drain it would place on the rest of the economy.

    A gold backed, oil backed, uranium backed, copper backed, etc money provides the braking mechanism gov’ts hate. The country ran with specie money prior to 1913 with several interruptions when fiat was tried and failed spectacularly. The bankers got the Fed Gov to go along with their scam in 1913 and the dollar has lost upwards of 98% of its value since then.

    The Treasury and Fed have gold on their books valued at $42.22 / ounce, a ridiculous figure, for an estimated 8,000 tons of gold that’s supposed to be in vaults. One of the proposals is to simply revalue gold at $50,000/ounce to once again provide a gold backed dollar but that proposal is just a scheme to continue the grift.

    All the nations currencies are unnecessary and exist only to cheat the public and provide the finance and political class their perch above us. Prices of everything could be set as G:S:C so a typical car would cost 945:50:0 meaning 945 grams of gold, 50 grams of silver and no grams of copper. The units could actually be whatever could be agreed upon. No one would care if the gold was minted in the US, Russia, or on mars.

    This would eliminate currency arbitrage, exchange rates, central banks and would mean that government is out of the “money” business. Price inflation would be a market force, not the whim of some banking cabal. Deficit spending with central banks monetizing the debt would be impossible. Wars would be less likely as now they need to be paid for in cash G:S:C, not thin air “currency”.

    Credit card companies could store all the metal an individual or company owns and we can all use plastic as a convenience with the option to withdraw any part of OUR metal any time we want. No more fractional reserve banking.

    • Agree: St-Germain
    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  76. @stevennonemaker88

    I was, of course, referring to an honestly run system. When the gold merchants created fraudulent gold receipts, that was the birth of today’s banking system. Yearning for such a scam seems seriously ill advised given what it’s turned out to be.

    The current system has two mechanisms for creating currency out of thin air. The Fed does it directly and in huge chunks while the banks do it more discretely with every loan they make as the funding for those loans IS the creation of those funds at the time of the loan. People are paying back currency that never existed along with interest that wasn’t created. That’s why the system is expansionary. The interest forces the creation of ever more currency to repay debts.

    • Replies: @stevennonemaker88
  77. Smith says:

    I support bailing out the everyman.

    I don’t support bailing out the rich corporations and rich people.

    There seems to be some lunacy with americans where they suck off rich people, but the moment poor people want to be treated better, they start mouthing off about how they suck off the rich people so they shouldn’t treat the poor people better.

    NO, poor people i.e. working class need more leeways and rights than the rich fuckers because the rich fuckers are not a vulnerable exploited majority.

    • Replies: @frontier
  78. Great interview! I thought this cut to the punch:

    Michael Hudson
    I know, it was Biden who was the head of the committee that rewrote the bankruptcy law to prevent student debt from being written off. It was Biden who locked in student debt.

  79. Smith says:

    No, you are trying to deflect the point.

    Debt happens regardless of gold or fiat.

    Seizure of properties happen regardless of gold or fiat money.

    Seizure of properties by the rich from the poor is the bad thing here, forcing poor people to be indebted is the problem here, not the way you count money.

    Your gold standard will not help, but make things worse by giving more power to the gold-hoarders countries.

    • Replies: @Bro43rd
  80. Ross23 says:

    I’ve heard these days many girls become strippers to get through college.

    Many others go into the sex industry as cam girls stripping online for payment.

    The former if they have it (both body and mind set) end up earning much more than they ever would by graduating.

  81. broxton says:

    Hope to read more Michael Hudson and Ellen Brown articles here on Unz. The argument is moral hazard, and yet no moral hazard when it comes to felony counts against the banks.

    Three Wall Street Mega Banks Have Admitted to a Combined Eight Felony Counts; But Don’t Expect the Word “Felony” to Come Up in Wednesday’s Senate Banking Hearing with their CEOs

  82. @SafeNow

    I dealt weed to get by in college.

  83. I wouldn’t fell so bad about student loan debt forgiveness if the “educated” debtors could read, understand and engage in an intelligent discussion of this article.

  84. Thim says:

    Just eliminate the usury. Take each loan, cancel the fees and penalties and interest, and let them pay back what they borrowed. As I understand it, less than 20% of the debt is the cost of the tuition. The rest is usury, under various names.

    Under Moses debts were cancelled at the beginning of the seventh year. When the Rabbis came back from Babylon, the debt cancellation got cancelled.

  85. Tlotsi says:

    If you have to go into debt to go to college, you shouldn’t be going to college.

  86. If some dip-shit has taken on debt to get a degree in Mexican Dwarf Literature, why should sane people bear the cost?

    If they learn nothing from their 4 (or 5 or 6) years of voluntary education it should be that decisions and actions have consequences.

    • Replies: @Smith
  87. Leo Den says:

    He won’t cancel student debt, but he keeps sending BILLION$ to Apartheid Israhell.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  88. @Thomasina

    In mid-size cities anyway you can deliver food with ubereats/doordash etc, and make $10k a year part-time on your own schedule no problem, and that’s a pretty basic low-skill option. Many, many immigrants do this, some young Americans…of course, it also skews sexist as virtually 100% of these drivers seem to be men. By the way, some of these companies also offer health insurance, free online courses at major universities..

  89. Smith says:
    @Bill Jones

    Sane people should help each other to get educated.

    Educated people means a better society.

    Imagine if the whole society is illiterate and can’t comprehend whatever you are writing, that’s a bigger problem than “the cost”, whatever it is.

    Then we can ask the next question, why the goddamn hell does education cost so much money in the US of A in the first place?

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    , @Thomasina
  90. Marckus says:

    Here is the scuttle BUTT on today’s students from Marckus’s first hand experience. Billy Bob is a Masters graduate from a good school. He was a good looking fellow, wears expensive clothes, well groomed and can rap convincingly at an interview. Billy Bob will assure you he is the reincarnation of Howard Hughes, Einstein, Darwin, Buffet etc all rolled into one. He is as funny as the Keystone Cops, Mutt and Jeff and Mickey and Goofy.

    The problem though is that Billy has the IQ of a door knob. Not to be harsh but where his professional qualifications are concerned he was fucking useless.

    Anyone using his Masters certificate with all the ribbons, stamps, seals, fancy signatures and fake gold trim to wipe his arse would be insulting his dirty anus. Billy was so useless he was kicked out after just a few weeks. He should have hit the job running.Instead he hit the job in a wheel chair in a comatose condition. Fired on the spot out of sheer frustration.

    My investigation into this mystery revealed the following routine at the the typical university, whether elite, mediocre or downright miserable. I will start the weekly calendar on Friday as it sets the foundation for the rest of the week.


    The Student
    Friday: Prepare for the weekend festivities. Where exactly are the parties and is there enough beer and weed. Which bitches are attending and do they put out.

    Saturday and Sunday: The parties rock. Weed, alcohol, sex, drug use etc, pizza and soda
    Monday: Sleep off the hangover
    Tuesday and Wednesday: Attend classes while reminiscing of the last weekend and thinking of the next
    Thursday: Attend to “study” and “assignments”. The definition of these has changed over the years. Today it means doing the least or fuck all substandard work to hand in

    Monday to Sunday: Other activities may include marching, protests, student meetings, rabble rousing and so forth.

    The Dean, Professors and University Staff

    The unacknowledged approach and policy is as follows : “Whether the student submits work or not, sleeps in class or not, attends or not, they are to be given “AAAAA” grades and graduated. We will not risk bad publicity, job loss or criticism for expelling bozos who are lazy and or dunces. This institution exists to make money, pay staff fat salaries. We are not here to graduate quality students. Staff is advised to govern themselves accordingly”

    Now an UR reader may say “Marckus, what the fuck is your point”

    Well my point is this:
    -The student of today graduates more dumb than when they entered the institution
    -Therefore to avoid future student debt they will not be required to go to University
    -They can apply for any certificate they want, pay a fee and it will be mailed to them
    -All universities will be closed and the staff pensioned off
    -Corporations are advised to start all new hires in the mailroom

    Trade and technical schools are another matter and discussion for another time. As for existing student debt, look at it as a holiday paid for with a credit card. The “student” enjoyed 5 years or so of relaxation and must now pay or face a bad credit rating.

    They had a nice time but if they learnt nothing in school they need to learn one essential lesson of life.

    Nothing in this life is for free !

    Of course I will be the first to admit none of this will happen so we are doomed to have two things as perpetual oozing sores. One is an avalanche of grads who are dumb and the second is an avalanche revolving student debt.

    • Replies: @dindunuffins
    , @anon
  91. Bro43rd says:

    More keynesian crackpottery from mr hudson. He really needs to read some Mises. Every theory he produces is just a variation of mo mo mo government intervention. It’s akin to suggesting the alcoholic should reform himself by being a bartender.

    • Replies: @Marckus
    , @Mefobills
  92. @RoatanBill

    I like what E. Michael Jones writes about economics. “Shylocks Ewes and Rams” is about as concise a summary of economics as I have come across.

    Gold standard is no good, it restricts money supply, which hurts people economically. Fractional reserve banking is a ponzi scheme, I agree. Fed of course is a sick joke….private company prints money out of thin air and loans to gov’t at interest. What’s with that? If Treasury printed its own money that would save oodles of money.

    Fiat money is OK…gov’t prints more when needed, it gets repaid into system, no problem, except for the ever-present human corruption. Really, gold standard is fiat money too…you have to peg an ounce of gold at so many dollars, and gov’t could change that figure at will.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  93. It is kind of surprising Biden didn’t forgive the college debt of America’s educators, bureaucrats, bankers, healthcare professionals, and whatever else professional work that overcharges for relatively little net value to the few remaining producers. Sounds like they would all be Democrats. The other reason I don’t care about it is colleges are over priced, and sitting on huge endowments. The government has beem enabling their price gouging and speculative greed via taking over student loans. Does by any chance would debt forgiveness correct the university turn hedge fund problem? My guess is it would not.

  94. Z-man says:

    Great video, a must listen, thanks. Canceling $50000 is easy to do and almost painless to the banksters. Do it!

  95. @Leo Den

    Those students that got a job in their field of study as a result of their earning a degree should not have their debts cancelled. Those that got worthless degrees and can’t find a job in their bogus fields should have their debts cancelled.

    It’s not a one size fits all situation. An engineer, doctor, architect, etc that has actually developed a skill via education should pay for what he got. Those that were enticed to become worthless individuals in the gender racket, sociology, etc where there is no identifiable skill possible, should be relieved of their debts and the schools that issued their bogus degrees shut down with their administration and teachers jailed for fraud.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  96. Marckus says:

    You are right you know. I am forever entertained by these “experts” who write a 700 page book or in this case 5300 words to ANALise something that our ancestors would have resolved in 5 seconds.

    Politicians waste so much time in these trivialities it is mind boggling.

    If I were President I would call a press conference. Here is what I would say.

    “I have thought of this student debt situation. Here are my thoughts.
    >No one forced any student to seek a higher education.
    >You enjoyed the service
    >You must pay for it yourself

    Here is my decision.There will be no loan forgiveness or government assistance.

    This is now a dead issue. I am not taking any questions. Thank you Ladies and gentlemen.”

    Of course Biden being Biden this issue will consume years of debate, millions of pages of studies, talking heads and experts by the dozens coming out of the woodwork and some wishy washy decision if any is made at all.

    Hudson is just the beginning of the circus.

    • Replies: @CelestiaQuesta
  97. Theone says:

    Of course,back then you had to work hard for a degree,not today where stupid high school girls keeps bragging about “muh future degree”,and when reality hits they cannot pay their debt,and starts selling themselves to whatever shit politician promises to end their debt.(thats how we get those worthless bots squawking “racist,fascist,sexist,motorist,taxist etc .)

  98. @Marckus

    Billy must be black…Like this loser,who the majority of blacks think like,……Ohio State third-string quarterback Cardale Jones made his feelings about attending classes clear Friday on Twitter.

    “Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain’t come to play SCHOOL classes are POINTLESS,” he wrote.

    We Wuz Kangz an sheit! wherez da White wominzz at yo yo yo

    • LOL: CelestiaQuesta
    • Replies: @CelestiaQuesta
  99. Another thing that’s happened, at least in medicine, is that they have locked in a five or 6% interest rate for student loan borrowers, Independent of whatever the federal interest-rate happens to be. So even if the federal interest-rate were .002%, loan borrowers would still have to pay five or 6% on their loans, which are ballooning out of proportion even in professional schools. I think it’s obscene that they arbitrarily grant themselves the right to charge more for the student borrowers and exploiting them, the productive section of society, while only charging themselves the paltry federal interest-rate. It’s just a joke.

    At least for student loans, I think the answer must be to somehow cap or limit what the institutions are charging for tuition. If they are receiving federal money or federal money through student loans, they should be somehow limited in how high they can make tuition. They should have to justify any tuition raises by transparency into their institutions. The greater available money causes the schools to raise the tuition. It’s a simple supply and demand effect. There’s more money available so they raise the tuition to whatever students are able to pay. By definition students are young, inexperienced and uneducated people. The schools are taking advantage of an at risk group.

  100. @Johnny Johnny

    The concept of a national currency needs to disappear. The entire world could operate on G:S:C as THE unit of measure, namely the weight of Gold, Silver and Copper. Pricing things in an artificially created Dollar, Yen, Euro, is part of the problem as they are unnecessary contrivances that the bankers and politicians can use to enrich themselves.

    The world can arrive at what everything is worth by consensus via trading patterns. The miners trade their Gold, etc for goods that then determine the value of the metals.

    Restricting the supply of real money to what is real is definitely needed to reign in the corporations and governments that know no limits to their wants.

    • Agree: Realist, St-Germain
    • Replies: @Emslander
  101. Theone says:
    @Lawrence Miller

    Great mental gymnastics so that you won t have to take responsability for stupid decisions you different than “pregnancy is not caused by sex” mental gymnastics to justify abortion on demand.If you people could do all this exercises physically tou would be pro bodybuilders.

  102. aandrews says:

    The Economy has Already Collapsed But the Government is Able to Prevent the Biggest Effects

    Andrew Anglin
    May 25, 2021

    I’m increasingly starting to believe that inflation will not cause a visible economic collapse for several years.

    The economy already has actually collapsed, of course. But basically, the government has devised a can-kicking plan to make it not obvious that the economy has collapsed for some time.

    Jim Cramer is saying the same thing [CNBC].


    Right now, there is an insane plan at work: the government is going to continue printing money like crazy, but instead of that leading to inflation, all of that new money is going to be totally parked in worthless stocks and real estate debt.


    Hyperinflation can only happen when the money is in circulation. As long as the money is not circulating, and is instead parked in massively, ridiculously overvalued stocks and real estate assets, the inflation will never actually end up really being felt by the population.

    This is an infinity bubble strategy. I don’t think it can last for infinity, and I don’t think it is intended to last for infinity, but it can certainly last for several years.

  103. AKINDLE says:

    In summary, injecting blacks on all levels into a perfectly good White educational system was a bad idea.

  104. anon[330] • Disclaimer says:

    I totally agree. Cancelling debt would make it unfair for the responsible people who took steps to avoid debt, like going to a cheaper school, and/or working through college to help pay for it. It would also reward the badly managed colleges so they can continue to charge high fees and offer little in terms of value, like the many private liberal arts colleges that seem to provide nothing but opportunities to party, do drugs and get indoctrinated to hate your parents and your own country. It’s also a slippery slope. Once you forgive student loan debt, what next? Credit card debt? Mortgage debt? Car loans?

    However I am sympathetic to the idea of sticking it to the bankers. We need much stronger usury laws like one that caps all private student loans at no more than 2 or 3%, and allow those who declare bankruptcy to get out of their student loan debt. Lower profitability will take away the banks’ incentive to make these usury loans to students, in turn making it harder for students to attend colleges they could not afford hence should not be attending. It would force the colleges to then trim their cost to make ends meet, get rid of all those wasteful grievance studies, varsity sports and excessive administrative cost.

    Of course, many colleges are now fleecing foreign students to cover the cost, and foreign students from Asia and Latin America keep coming because they see the degree as a stepping stone to immigrate to the US. So we need to end all OPT and H1B visas, or make them much more expensive to get, like $1 million per visa instead of the current lowly $2,500, so corporations only use them on true talents rather than just for cheap labor. Use the revenue generated to fund public universities so they are affordable to all.

    • Replies: @Alden
  105. Theone says:

    Most sensible voters? Hahahhahahha
    They literally founded and railroaded BLM and other “people”.we need less skanks like you making stupid decisions,destroying families,properties etc. and more like supply who at least does not disturb anyone.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Alden
  106. profnasty says:

    STEM only!

    • Replies: @Franz
  107. bayviking says:

    Good ol’ Michael Hudson bringing science and clarity to a subject riddled with class warfare based lies. It can be very profitable to lie for the ruling class. Its a trap most economists and politicians fall into.

  108. Didn’t the rush to get a University Education start when the Supreme Court found that the tests employers gave to incoming employees “discriminated” against certain groups. The companies then reverted to accepting a University Degree instead of their previous tests. Then everyone needed a University Degree to get a decent job. As with many other cases a remote decision by a court changed the education system and the economy completely.

  109. @Smith

    Not if the sane people are being forced at the point of a gun to pay for dipshits to learn nonsense.

  110. anon[438] • Disclaimer says:

    Are there colleges that are truly “worth it” and people should pay any price to attend? There are some who argue that elite colleges like HYPSM are worth it esp. if you want a career in politics, law, management consulting or investment banking, but other than that, it’s hard to argue that there is a college that is worth any price to attend, like the girl who borrowed $150k to go to Northeastern University, I think that’s the kind of decision that should be avoided.

    But even for HYPSM, there is always graduate school, which is only two years and can often be self-funded through TA. Majority of unpaid debt came from students who borrowed to go to non-elite private universities(outside the top 5 or 10) and majored in something other than STEM(esp. CS or CE) or Economics/Business.

    If you think college is for 4 years of partying and pursuing whatever strikes your fancy, then you should go to a cheap in-state university, unless you have a rich daddy. No one should go into debt to attend any college. More and more colleges are offering inexpensive 1 to 2 year certificate programs in all kinds of fields from accounting to nursing to computer network security:
    Hopefully these will take off and replace those wasteful private liberal arts colleges(including the Ivies) that teach no real skills, only partying and leftist indoctrination.

  111. Mefobills says:

    Government backed the student loans and at the same time forbids students from declaring bankruptcy. Our Zionist president presided over the law change while in the Senate.

    So, during a student debt default, two things can happen:

    1) The government uses tax dollars (or deficit dollars, which is more public debt) to pay the private banker – to then make the debt instrument on the bank’s books whole.

    2) The student debt instrument passes to the Treasury. The Treasury buys the whole note, maybe not even at face value. This also makes the bank solvent, and form of welfare for the bank.

    If the debt instrument passes to the Treasury, they can simply rip it up (providing law change) , and then shit can it. The former student is now free of debt, and the government is not going to receive future income from a debt slave.

    From a moral standpoint, the answers are fairly clear. 1) The student debts can be released, which then allows students to engage in life. Already they are checking out, and not buying homes, not having kids. We are immigrating debt free low IQ third world people to supplant our abused home-grown population. This then drives down wages, so the debt strapped population has even more troubles.

    For the whiney lolbertarian-tards on this board who are “I got mine!” and why don’t you work for it like I did! That assumes much, especially that the playing field is the same now as then.

    For those who are worried about moral hazard, there are ways within the debt money system to deal with said moral hazard.

    Steven Keen’s debt jubilee pays off an equal amount to everybody. Any money received by a debt strapped student, said money MUST GO toward paying down principle on the debt instrument. Any money received by those not debt strapped, that money MUST GO toward purchasing stock in a company that is debt strapped. There will be new laws that the company must follow to receive this largesse.

    New laws must accompany a debt jubilee, that is a foregone conclusion – but nobody in the western ruling class are having that debate. Why? Because the finance ruling class is on the other side of the predatory debts. They benefit from the polarization.

    Basically a debt jubilee changes the ratio of debt to money in a nation’s money supply. It also un-polarizes generations, allowing young people to get on the ladder to life.

    Take the scales out of your eyes. Take a close look at young people today. They are fat, malformed, often filled with environmental chemicals, have low sperm counts or are weird blue haired women with tattoos. Most have also imbibed on clown world propaganda. Many of the Antifa crowd are delayed adolescents who are debt strapped and have checked out because they see no upward mobility ladder. They then call for communism, and have no idea what industrial capitalism is.

    Finance Capitalism is a (((nation wrecker.)))

  112. frontier says:

    I support bailing out the everyman. I don’t support bailing out the rich corporations and rich people.

    Well, the government supports bailing out the rich, what are you gonna do about it? If you do nothing, your “support” amounts to giving money to anyone for the asking, not as a loan, no obligation to return, no debt and no work. Whatever everyone can have, by the virtue of mere desire, has no market value whatsoever. Thus, your generously given money wouldn’t buy anything, it’d be worthless, inflated to infinity. Let me repeat myself again because you missed the point entirely: Given that “free money” is retarded nonsense, if you don’t support bailouts for the rich, you should focus your efforts on ending them, that’s the only problem with a clear solution, it might turn out, nothing else is necessary to improve the lot of “everyman”.

    • Replies: @Smith
  113. @RoatanBill

    I think virtually everyone on Unz agrees that the current system is utterly corrupt and broken. Fiat currency can be endlessly debased with no link to reality. I agree that a gold standard in various forms is generally preferable. At the same time, a gold standard, or even specie, is not a total fix. There is a reason the ancients had laws against usury, even when currency was exclusively precious metal coins.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  114. anon[438] • Disclaimer says:

    Probably pretty accurate picture of most college students other than STEM majors. Except partying now starts on Thursdays, some earlier.

    I actually know of a kid who went to an in-state flagship to study “photography” for 4 years, couldn’t get a job after graduating and is now getting a master’s in photography. His immigrant parents are low income so he probably got a free ride. If he didn’t, he’s now $100k in debt. What does one do with a Master’s degree in “photography”? And why is such a degree even offered in a 4 year flagship university? How many end up being professional photographers good enough to make a living?

  115. Mefobills says:

    Bro43rd, Markus, and one-born-free-dumb can get a room together at hotel lolbertarian.
    Then you can have a morose party.

    Read Mises? The road to serfdom is paid with Hayek’s privateering debts. The road to serfdom is a function of polarization, which happens repeatedly throughout history. Debts mount even in normal functioning economy, and no modern branch of economics has codified this reality. (Modern economics is actually a reversal, a falling down.)

    Hudson has gone back to the ancient near east for economic study, that way the lolbertarian-tards and neo-liberals can say nothing, because they know-nothing about this period. They haven’t invented too many a-priori theories that are out of alignment that history yet.

    Money’s true nature is law, and gravity makes you fall down. Deal with it. A government’s most sacred privilege is the money power.

    If government abuses its trust, that is a different question.

    This notion that we have to pay our debts, or there will be moral hazard is very low IQ stuff. The debts were in many cases fraud, so you are perpetuating fraud with miss-guided moral hazard. White people in particular are evolved for paying debts, which is why they are easy prey for our (((friends))).

  116. Smith says:

    Change the government of course.

    If the government serves not the majority interests but the rich, it must be changed.

    Then the discussion will be on how to effectively change the government instead of this damage mitigation discussion and whining about muh “free money” and lazy poor people.

    And no, free money is not retarded nonsense, it is literally funny printed paper issued by banks, treating them with respect IS retarded nonsense.

  117. Mark G. @ 28

    The mistake you are making here is that in your mind going to school = education. Often what is happening now in college is just indoctrination in what our ruling class wants everyone to believe.

    And your alternative is what? Forgo a college degree because you can always get a job at McDonald’s. Even Calvin Coolidge had degrees from Amherst College.

    • Replies: @Mark G.
  118. The government can cancel debts because its the creditor, ultimately, for student loans.

    With all respect, that is objectively inaccurate.

    The issuer of the promissory-note is the lead-underwriter and creditor-in-fact / equity.

    The money for the student loan does not even exist unless and until the note-issuer underwrites it by agreeing that they owe it.

    None of the nominal lenders brought any money to the transactions – all they did was to (re)insure the credit that they themselves received gratuitously from the lead-underwriter and creditor-in-fact.

    The government then guaranteed or insured payment to the pretended-lenders to negate the only thing that the pretended-lenders brought to the transaction and that was the assumption of liability or risk.

    The government is not ultimately the creditor, but a gratuitous guarantor. The lead-underwriter has to first originate the credit before the government can guarantee it on behalf of the pretended-lender / insurer-in-fact.

    It works the same on mortgages, and almost everything else – including credit / charge-cards.

    The real business of American Express, for example, is credit-insurance or reinsurance and not money-lending.

    Assume, for example, that Amex’s throughput globally is the USD-equivalent of $100 billion per monthly payment cycle, with the sole exception of the year-end holiday month (December) when gross-throughput doubles to $200 billion for that month or payment-cycle only.

    So where does Amex obtain the extra $100 billion needed to cover the extra payment orders for December? Answer: From its card-users. The signed payment orders (or PIN-authorized payment orders) are financial instruments that Amex recognises and records as cash-equivalent money-assets on its balance sheet. Amex does not need to go out and find an extra $100 billion in December because its card-users directly provide it with an extra $100 billion of orders in December.

    All the work Amex needs to do is in pre-qualifying the nominal credit limits (credit-guarantee-limits) of its card-users. The payment-orders are functionally indistinguishable from signed-cheques payable to Amex from the pre-qualified card-user’s on-going income stream – but which are effectively post-dated by 21 to 52 days depending on what point they are issued in the on-going payment / statement cycle.

    All Amex is doing is insuring the payment order against default between the issuing of a given order and the final settlement 21 to 52 days later – it is not investing or lending any of its own money. The signed payment order is itself an advance of credit to Amex from the card-user, which Amex then reinsures to the merchant while stripping off a 5% premium for itself. Amex is actually receiving an average 250% p.a. on its card-user’s money (when annual fees are factored into the overall rate calculation).

    And here again, the pretended-student-loan-lenders did not bring any money to the transactions but only insured the credit that they themselves received for free under the promissory note.

    Same with mortgages.

    Excerpt from:

    Not money-lenders

    Banks are not what you think they are. They are not money-lenders – they are credit-reinsurers and they are asset-sinks.

    When you sign and deliver a promissory note and mortgage you are underwriting and advancing real-estate-secured-credit to the bank. The bank strips-off and retains the financial and real-estate security as a premium for itself, and then returns or reinsures unsecured-credit back to you as an unsecured-deposit-liability / credit that does not cost the bank anything material to produce.

    The money / credit for the alleged or pretended loan does not even exist unless and until you underwrite it by accepting the liability for it by agreeing that you owe it, normally under the promissory note that is secured by the mortgage.

    You then have to add or issue the same amount again in the form of a signed check / cheque (drawn on the bank) to the seller of the real estate, who has to endorse it / co-sign it and deliver it back to the bank as a ratification of what would otherwise be the recoverable-loss of their property and legal-title to the bank in exchange for an unsecured deposit credit. Then the bank agrees that it owes the principal amount (selling price) to the seller instead of to you.

    The nominal mortgage is a combination bill of sale that transfers all right, title, and interest in the property to the bank, plus an embedded repurchase option that allows you to buy the property back from the bank by paying it all of the money required under all of the securities. When a bank forecloses it is not foreclosing on the house, because it already owns the house. The foreclosure is of the repurchase option – sometimes referred to as a right of redemption.

    The banker arrives at the transaction with metaphoric empty pockets, and leaves with all of the financial securities from the pre-qualified lead-underwriter / pretended-borrower in one hand, and the legal-title to the real-estate property (and endorsed check) from the seller in the other.

    From the nominal bankers’ perspective there is only one material reality, and that is that real equity / secured assets come in, and only unsecured liabilities go out. They are asset-sinks and they are unsecured-liability-kiters.

  119. What are the benefits of paying $50k annual tuition for four years to have your kids become “woke indoctrinated”, then passed on by (((technophiles and monopolies))) who go on to hire cheating Asians and AA/diversity hire POC cause white Supremacists and domestic terrorists is out of control?
    I’m axing fo uh homie…

    • Replies: @Alden
  120. @A123

    Hudson the FRAUD with the mind of a gun control freak advocates confiscating the means by which the evil is achieved, while ignoring the person causing it.

    Meanwhile, the usual idiot commentators complain they want to be rich like the ones they hate.

    Hudson–the philosophical shit magnet for all things mammon.

    • Replies: @GomezAdddams
  121. Bro43rd says:

    As long as government can create money by fiat we are enslaved & are having our assets seized by default through inflation (when the fed creates new money). Money should be market based, like gold & silver was for thousands of years. But metals don’t have to be the only money, really whatever the trading parties agree on which is what I mean by market based.

    • Replies: @Smith
  122. Bro43rd says:

    Hayek is not Mises. When one doesn’t have a reasonable argument to make then one resorts to ad hominem attacks. Nuf said!

    • Replies: @Usura
  123. Thomasina @ 31

    @Lawrence Miller
    “Worry about how you’ll pay the loan back later after you graduate but don’t let that stop you from your educational goals.”

    “And how is that working out now, Lawrence?”

    Worked out just fine. My son and daughter both have PhD degrees and repaid their student loans after graduating when working in their chosen professions. A college degree is what you make of it but without one life is much more difficult. It doesn’t seem like good advice to me to advise young people to forgo a college degree, but apparently you are if a different mind.

    • Replies: @Thomasina
  124. The borrowers will be able to repay the debt easily in the future with Zimbabwean dollars……..I mean American dollars.

  125. Theone @ 101

    I wanted to reply to your post critical of mine @24 but couldn’t for the life of me figure out what you were saying?

  126. @Marckus

    You can take it to the bank that with little notice, once word that all college debt will be forgiven, black colleges, sorry POC colleges will have enrolled every POC they can find into college. The payout will be in the trillions with no accountability.

  127. Alden says:

    It’s been 50 years since a months dishwashing wage could buy even one text book.

    Let’s see, 30K a year tuition, 20 hours a week work at $8.00 minimum wage in the college cafeteria 32 weeks a year. $5,100 Still 25 K tuition as well as living expenses. And for those whose college textbooks cost $18.00 back in the mists of time, college textbooks are outrageously expensive, as much as $300.00 or 2 weeks minimum wage scrubbing pots.

    Food, a roof over their head clothes utilities transportation laptops software 16 or 20 hours a week at minimum or even a dollar over minimum wage just doesn’t really help when one textbook costs 2 weeks take home pay.

    Before student loans, even the most expensive colleges geared tuition towards the average middle class wage. Because even Harvard and Stanford knew most of their students would be middle class.

    As for jobs after college, STEM degrees guarantee nothing. Because STEM employers would rather hire Indian and Chinese foreigners with their fake resumes and diploma mill degrees than a White American man.

    My last job was at UCLA. I worked all around the campus and the hospital. When I worked at the science and engineering campus, I observed the racist discriminatory hiring practices of the private sector tech companies and government agencies .

    January as soon as winter quarter began the recruiters arrived.

    First hired January and February were foreign students from the PCR in America on student visas . Student visas granted with the idea they would go home upon graduation. Well, they don’t. They stay here to increase the work force and lower wages.

    Next hired in March and April Chinese citizens here as immigrants with resident green cards. They were brought to America by their immigrant parents. These guys had not begun citizenship process, just green cards.

    Next in May when the employers were desperate Chinese immigrants who had started the citizenship process.

    By graduation , no more recruiters, and American born Chinese, Chinese immigrants who were citizens, and American born White men were not hired.

    The White men all ended up working as substitute math teachers, bartenders or went to grad school to incur more debt and more wasted young adult years.

  128. Smith says:

    Price control and regulations are the best way to fight inflation, not gold back currency.

    Gold values are determined by men, which means it can be controlled by men.

    • Replies: @fish
    , @Bro43rd
  129. @dindunuffins

    Dats one smart azz blood, schitt…….

  130. Anon[383] • Disclaimer says:

    If we look at a US wide map of counties, colored with political colors, red and blue, where would the debts Biden won’t cancel, be concentrated? And by dollar amounts/volume?

    Presumably, the high dollar debt loads would be CA, NY, and other blue havens.

    Would low loan amounts be in fly over country, red county/states? If he would cancel $10K would that predominantly favor red regions? Would Biden shoot himself in the foot? Of course he would.

  131. @stevennonemaker88

    I’ve never quite understood the ancient’s meaning for usury. Was it excessive interest or any and all interest? If the lender has no right to compensation for lending the equivalent of his labor, then that’s just wrong headed. Both parties should win in the deal or else why would anyone take the risk of lending and possibly never getting even his loan amount back, never mind any interest as compensation.

    We should be using money instead of currency. Money is based on accumulated wealth. Currency is based upon debt. Every dollar in the system got there via a debt.

    I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the administration of our government to the genuine principles of its Constitution; I mean an additional article, taking from the federal government the power of borrowing.
    Thomas Jefferson

    • Replies: @stevennonemaker88
  132. Rosie says:

    Generally speaking, white woman are incredibly gullible and some of the biggest flag waving, terminally foolish people on the planet.

    White men carry on voting for a party that does nothing for them and holds then in open contempt, over and over again, by overwhelming margins.

    As to their “sons” , whites are reproducing well below replacement rate.

    I’m still waiting for someone to produce evidence that this is women’s fault. I’ve been asking for years now, to no avail.

    • Replies: @stevennonemaker88
  133. Rosie says:

    They literally founded and railroaded BLM and other “people”.

    White women founded BLM? Now, there’s one I haven’t heard before. Where is your evidence for that?

  134. Alden says:

    I totally agree. And don’t forget living expenses for 4 years.

    • Agree: CelestiaQuesta
  135. @Mefobills

    Money’s true nature is law, and gravity makes you fall down. Deal with it. A government’s most sacred privilege is the money power.

    This a very important point. one of the biggest problems today is that we allow banks to issue our currency, created out of thin air, and then lend it at interest.

    “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” Thomas Jefferson

    This quote sums it up pretty well.

    • Agree: Mefobills
  136. @Rosie

    White men carry on voting for a party that does nothing for them and holds then in open contempt, over and over again, by overwhelming margins.

    I Agree, a high percentage do. Maybe I am mistaken, but it seems as if you are stating this as some kind of rebuttal. how does this refute what I said?

    I’m still waiting for someone to produce evidence that this is women’s fault. I’ve been asking for years now, to no avail.

    That is easy. In the US, a pregnant woman has the exclusive “right” to choose to murder her child via abortion. The father’s opinion has no legal standing. The US averages a million abortions (baby murder) per year. As to simply choosing to not get pregnant in the first place, Surely there is some responsibility from men, but it is a relatively small percent. Woman are far more likely to be on hormonal birth control than men.

    Your alleged years long search for an answer is at an end : )

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Alden
  137. Alden says:

    “ working through college to help pay for it” ha ha ha ha

    When did you graduate? 1950? Just a typical textbook even second hand costs more than 40 hours minimum wage work.

    The naïveté and ignorance of UNZ commenters never ceases to amaze. The only cheap colleges are the community colleges. The state colleges are expensive. Tuition rises every year. And living costs are the same whether you’re at Stanford or a local Community College.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @some_loon
  138. Alden says:

    Anti fa is made up of unemployable White *men and BLM was founded by 3 black women. Another childless womanless impotent intel White woman hating scumbag POS MAN OF UNZ.

    Go back to jacking off to your favorite black man White woman porn.

    * White men so brainwashed they don’t realize the only reason they are unemployable is because of affirmative action discrimination against White men.

  139. Should we invade St. Barts, Monte Carlo, all thise Mediterranean Islands, sieze all those yachts, look everywhere the 1% hide, and shake them from their trees.
    Something has to change.
    A debt jubilee would ignite our economy such as has never been seen before.

  140. Rosie says:

    how does this refute what I said?

    It refutes your silly claim that women are particularly “gullible” and “terminally foolish.”

    The father’s opinion has no legal standing.

    Women consider it nonetheless. A man cannot stop a woman from having an abortion, but he can threaten to leave the relationship if she doesn’t and he can follow through on that threat.

    As to simply choosing to not get pregnant in the first place, Surely there is some responsibility from men, but it is a relatively small percent.

    This is simply a restatement of the position, without evidence, that women are responsible for low birthrate. My husband and I made the decision to cease birth control and have children (if, when, and how many) as a couple. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I will assume that is the norm.

  141. @RoatanBill

    I’ve never quite understood the ancient’s meaning for usury. Was it excessive interest or any and all interest?

    Like most things, the definition varies somewhat. Everyone from the Ancient Romans, the Indian empire, the medieval Christians, etc restricted or outright banned interest. It’s hard to make too much of a blanket statement. But they all recognized it as a potential major evil.

    If the lender has no right to compensation for lending the equivalent of his labor, then that’s just wrong headed. Both parties should win in the deal or else why would anyone take the risk of lending and possibly never getting even his loan amount back, never mind any interest as compensation.

    There are ways to make a profit without compounding interest. For example, selling something like a house at a upfront price or selling it in payments that total something slightly higher. It isn’t the same thing as continually compounding interest with no end in sight. Beyond that, the very concept of making money through loans generally leads away from actual productive uses. The idea of making money with money, as opposed to making money through producing, is the bedrock of financial capitalism which is so destructive.

    REAL wealth is goods and services, not money or currency.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @RoatanBill
  142. Usura says:

    Mefobills has many important things to teach, but he’s basically ignorant concerning libertarian writings and doctrine, hence his profanity laden feuds with onebornfree, which at this point run like an Unz Review sitcom. I’ve tried to get him to see the striking connections between fascism and radical liberals like Hoppe, but he seems more interested in stabbing effigies than building bridges between the enclaves of the right. Oh well; the world needs its zealots too. I recommend everyone bookmark his comments and read at least a few hundred, you’ll find no shortage of interesting sources and original ideas.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  143. Alden says:

    What does Rosie have to do with abortion? What does student loan debt have to do with abortion. You’re a typical ignoramus MAN OF UNZ who thinks women legalized abortion in America.

    It was 9 White men on the satanic Supreme Court who legalized abortion. The same minions if Satan who legalized the most blatant and egregious discrimination against White men in Griggs.

    And you’re weeping and wailing about unborn fetuses. Why not weep and wail about the naturally miscarried fetuses? Or go to church and talk with a statue?

    White men made abortion the law of the land. 9 White men

    You’re as bad as the environmentalists constantly searching for some useless weed to put on the endangered species list. Or the even crazier environmentalists who want to introduce wolves and mountain lions into cattle and sheep pastures.

  144. Rosie says:

    Both parties should win in the deal or else why would anyone take the risk of lending

    The bigger question is why we need lenders to lend in the first place.

  145. Anon[264] • Disclaimer says:

    Here’s an eyeopening interview with 3 Millennial girls ‘o color at The University of Central Florida (largest campus in the nation?) on all things Trump, BLM, and Antifa.

    . . . simply stunning, couldn’t listen to the entire 15 minutes.

    • Replies: @bayviking
  146. Mefobills says:

    Mefobills has many important things to teach, but he’s basically ignorant concerning libertarian writings and doctrine,

    I’m more conversant with Libertarian doctrine than any libertarian posting on this board.

    Because I am so conversant, I can poke jabs at the Lolbertarians by using their own arguments – which are sophomoric at best.

    They need to be jabbed because the doctrine is a covering ideology that allows usury, rents, and unearned income. Lol’s even admit they don’t know what usury is, yet I have defined it many times. see comment 132 above.

    In the course of my arguments, especially with one-born-freedumb, it exposes many lolbertarians as personality defectives, lacking in empathy. Free-dumb has been corrected literally hundreds of times by Unz readers, if one wants to peruse his comments.

    Also, the two way arguments also expose a concept called demoralization, as defined by Bezmenov. A demoralized person has a brain that is fixed in place and cannot accept new information at odds with his core ideology.

    Part of jabbing people is to shock them some, so it is not explicitly an ad-hominem. Ad-hominems are where you try to win an argument by defaming the person. To de-demoralize requires some sort of emotional shock.

    I’m not trying to win an argument, instead I am trying to warn off others not to join the Lolbertarian ideology, because it is bankrupt. It will demoralize people, to where they become unwitting agents of mammon.

    Facism and Liberalism are antithesis of each other, so the Hoppe argument is a non-sequitur like so much of libertarianism, which is part of liberalism.

    • Replies: @Chris Moore
  147. Corrupt says:

    “Well, the fact is the economy didn’t collapse because they canceled the debts. Once you wipe out the debts to the creditor class, you prevent an independent financial oligarchy from developing.”

    Why would anyone make a loan when the principal (and interest) would be lost when the ruler dies?

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  148. [Too much nasty and totally off-topic ranting back-and-forth about abortion. These sorts of comments will get trashed.]

    • Replies: @stevennonemaker88
  149. @stevennonemaker88

    For example, selling something like a house at a upfront price or selling it in payments that total something slightly higher.

    That’s slight of hand. It amounts to the same thing. If a deal is made at 5% per year and the borrower runs over to years 2 and 3, for example, there’s no negative feeling that can be aimed at the lender that makes any sense.

    I suggest that taking out a loan for 30 years on a house, for example, is the actual problem. That allows for the compounding of interest. Bear with me.

    Houses today are being sold for many times their construction value, even and maybe especially, brand new ones. That’s real gouging but no one says anything. The advent of financing drove up the prices just like it did with the current higher education fiasco. If there were no financing, house and land prices would have to come down to where a market could be made – sellers finding buyers. I’m not suggesting getting rid of mortgages, but reducing their term to, say, a max of 5 years. This would ripple through the market. Lumber prices would have to come down, everything in the house would have to come down to allow for the market to clear. It is the invention of the 30 year mortgage, the 7 year car load and the I don’t know how many year student loan that IS the problem. The (((finance mafia))) has rigged a system with the full cooperation of the universities, auto makers, home sellers, etc to jack up prices and extend the term to try to get a fit.

    Then, because simple interest wouldn’t allow the buyer to make the first payment, they invented amortization to in effect invent a new loan every month so all the payments are the same for the duration of the loan. It is the amortization that provides the ability to have long term loans. Without amortization, buyers wouldn’t be able to make their first payment because it would be too high for them to afford. This all points back to a term that’s too long, not really the compounding.

    The wealth someone has accumulated through their efforts is the result of their labor or brain power in most cases. That wealth denominated in some currency unit is the equivalent of labor. Once sufficient wealth has accumulated as saving, it can be lent out to help someone that needs the funds. There’s nothing sinister in this arrangement.

    • Thanks: profnasty
  150. anon[438] • Disclaimer says:

    When did you graduate? 1950? Just a typical textbook even second hand costs more than 40 hours minimum wage work.

    I have two currently in college.

    Paying for college through work is hard but still workable if you go to a local state U/community college and commute from home. The annual cost is $15k at the State U and $5k a the community college, including tuition and fees. Commuting cost is free as bus fare is covered under fees. Many classes now don’t even require textbooks. 40 hrs x $15 = $600/wk. So far it’s been about $100 per quarter per kid for textbooks. One full time summer internship plus 10 hr part time per week could cover the whole year’s cost. Many kids also do running start which is free and saves them 1 to 2 years.

    • Agree: Thomasina
  151. some_loon says:

    When did you graduate? 1950? Just a typical textbook even second hand costs more than 40 hours minimum wage work

    You greatly exaggerate, but are at least directionally accurate.

    Stewart’s Calculus, 9th edition, about $180, new (Amazon). The 4th edition, when I was at university, was the most expensive of any of my textbooks (but can be used for 3 quarters), but I don’t recall the exact price.

    About 11 hours work at Seattle’s minimum wage of $16.69/hr, or
    13 1/3 hours at the Washington State minimum wage of $13.50. 25 hours at the federal minimum of $7.25.

    I know it is more hours including payroll taxes, sales taxes, etc. but the point is easy enough to follow. It might just take 40 hours to pay for one term’s textbooks, but probably not. Rental options are also available.

    $30 to rent the above textbook for a couple of months, but it is an open question which is the bigger ripoff. Maybe this is less than the student loses from reselling the book to the school bookstore.

    I saw a number of years ago that the website of the Seattle Police Department mentioned that illegal file sharing was a major concern the department has about applicants for police jobs (that and having had sex at work).

    While most people would think that means movies and music, college textbooks were also a major part of filesharing traffic then, and maybe still is, though the major torrent sites seem much reduced, or gone.

  152. Thomasina says:

    “Sane people should help each other to get educated.”

    Sane people are responsible people who don’t rely on others to get educated. Yes, maybe a helping hand here and there, but they are not reliant or “dependent” on anyone else. A dependent is a child.

    We already help each other when it comes to the education of “children”. Unfortunately, many of these children refuse to pay attention in school and only graduate because the education system has dumbed itself down for them. This does them no favors; they go on to fail in higher education (which too is being dumbed down for them). These people want to remain perpetual “children”, free to create chaos wherever they go, and then scream for bailouts when their stupid decisions turn out badly.

    As was said in the Good Will Hunting movie: “You dropped $150 grand on a fucking education you could have got for $1.50 in late charges from the public library.”

    You ask: “…why the goddamn hell does education cost so much money in the US of A in the first place?”

    It used to be that whenever someone wanted a student loan, the banks would demand to see their school transcripts. After seeing good grades and determining they had a serious student sitting in front of them, they would ask pointed questions about what the student wanted to study, how much they were going to make once they graduate, how they will pay the money back.

    It used to be serious for both the banks and the student because the banks used to keep these loans on their own books, suffering a loss if a student didn’t pay them back. Only very responsible students got loans (or they had rich parents who would co-sign the loan). And because students used to be able to declare bankruptcy, the banks wanted to make certain that they were dealing with a very responsible person who wouldn’t do that.

    From what I understand (and someone can correct me if I’m wrong), a few doctors and lawyers began to use bankruptcy to get out of having to pay the loan back. Others then followed, or so the story goes. There are always a few bad apples that ruin it for everyone. Congress closed the bankruptcy loophole.

    Fast forward to today when everyone and his dog expects to go to university, when the politically correct demand it. Congress caved and decided to guarantee the loans so that the banks wouldn’t suffer losses (which undoubtedly they would have). Banks, now free from losses, began to crank out loans to anyone who could form an “X”.

    All of the X’s converged on the colleges and universities, which created a lot of “demand”. Under the laws of supply and demand, too much demand and not enough supply forces prices up. After all, the government is backing the loans, so the bankers and the universities went to town: the bankers, no longer asking hard questions of the students, handed out loans freely and the universities and colleges accepted people who should never have gotten a foot in the door.

    The X’s, now having failed, don’t want to pay the money back. The grand experiment failed and everybody didn’t end up getting a ribbon. That is as it should be. I believe everybody belongs somewhere (they decorate a cake well, they’re a good mechanic, etc.), but they just need to go where they can excel.

    That’s my take.

    • Replies: @Smith
  153. @stevennonemaker88

    to the moderator and Mr. Unz: I am disappointed that you cannot work on the anon trolls and numerous posters who come up with ridiculous personal attacks and use profanity and instead are focusing on censoring people who simply share a different view than yourself, and back it up with data to boot. I post under my legal name and defend each of my views. Unz review is one of the last bastions of free speech. For shame…

    [Lots of other nasty, off-topic comments are also getting trashed.]

    • Replies: @Marckus
  154. @Mark G.

    Agree Mark G. Student debt has to be discussed in the context of why so many people are going to college in the first place and what they will ever get out of their degree even if it is free. I don’t think Michael Hudson gives this any thought at all.
    Most people are not cut out for the kind of work that requires a college degree, which is fine, because society has a very limited need for these kind of intellectual workers anyway. Most people need to work as skilled or unskilled laborers or in more routine office work that doesn’t require advanced education. This is due to their natural ability level. When these people go to college they do not increase their ability to do intellectual work – they just get a worthless degree.
    This is not said in a spirit of contempt for these people. Skilled and unskilled laborers should be paid a decent wage, should have ladders of success in the workplace, should have the opportunity to work for themselves, should be respected for the work they do. Above all they need an abundance of work opportunities – a growing economy with a tight labor market so good jobs are plentiful.
    I know cashiers with graduate degrees who just should never have gone to college. They should have become cashiers out of high school, and the cashier job should pay double what it currently does.
    Instead of forgiving student debt we should stop the student loan program entirely. Close a large number of colleges and universities until the ones remaining are adequate to train the number of intellectual workers society truly needs.
    Deport all illegals, cancel all work visas and stop all immigration to create a “labor shortage”, i.e. a labor market favorable to workers.
    Never bail out a bank or a corporation. Enforce market discipline on the free market hypocrites.
    Bankruptcy laws should allow cancelation of any debt, including student debt. Let the lender beware: your debtors can have their debts canceled in bankruptcy court. Think hard before your lend someone money. Let the borrower beware: you will come out of bankruptcy court flat broke. Think hard before you borrow money.
    Personal disclosure – my family has saved hard for 18 years to have the money to pay for my son’s college education. Vacations not taken, cars not bought. I don’t want anyone else going to college for free.

    • Agree: Thomasina, Mark G.
    • Thanks: Nancy
    • Replies: @Marckus
    , @Nancy
  155. bayviking says:

    Hudson absolutely addresses Fed lunacy, but apparently not in a way you can understand. He has always been clear that the Banks should have been nationalized, not unconditionally bailed out. Because, any cash disbursements to those crooks should have been carefully controlled.

    In England and the USA, every time a Bank issues a loan, it creates that money out of thin air. That power should be under the control of the Treasury, but was hi-jacked by wealthy conspirators that understand that is the power that matters. In the USA and many other countries creation of all currency has been privatized, enriching a few, but definitely not in China or Iceland where Hudson consults.

    Hudson favors bailouts for student and mortgage debt holders, not the creditors. He points out that student debt is guaranteed by the Government, which is in a position to make the private lender whole by printing more money or writing it of. It can be viewed the same as infrastructure building, creating a stronger tomorrow fore the nation, based on educating people. But either way Banks would lose interest and penalties, so that option is off the table. How were we able to send every WWII and Vietnam Vet to college on the GI bill, but not now?

    • Replies: @frontier
    , @MarkinLA
  156. Emslander says:

    The world can arrive at what everything is worth by consensus via trading patterns.

    The fair market value of goods and services, which is what you are presumably referencing by “worth” is set by free markets, which, at their best, are a kind of perpetual auction. There will always be barriers to immediacy, but our communications have never been better, so they will be minimal.

    A gold standard for all currencies or for one universal currency can be accomplished. The worth of materials or talents or services won’t be manipulated by governments, if a gold standard is established. This will defeat affirmative action schemes, preferential treatment and massive government debt.

    Governments will be controlled by an objective standard of material value and that’s why it will never happen.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  157. bayviking says:

    The interviewer uses facts selectively. Among other thing she claims that the police only killed 19 black people last year.

    These records are difficult to verify because police departments do not like to report that number. Police officers in the US had fatally shot nearly 1,000 people a year since 2015. You are twice as likely to be shot by police if you are black than if you are white. Proof police are racist, but that problem includes the Justice System and predates Trump. Nixon set in motion the war on drugs as a method for targeting hippies and black people for lockup and render them politically irrelevant. His right hand man Erlichman has admitted that this was the purpose of the war on drugs, which continues to this day.

    Going back the last sixty years, there is a long history of elements in the CIA and FBI inciting riots, as method of discrediting all left wing movements. We are supposed to live in a free country and be able to express our opinions and political preferences, but if you joined the Communist Party you were black listed by Hollywood. J Edgar Hoover considered Martin Luther King the most dangerous man in America and treated him accordingly, spying on him, using the full powers of the FBI 24/7, even while he was assassinated.

    Trump and his father were sued for racist policies as a New York City, lost in Court, paid fines and then refused to admit that ever happened. There is no logic to Trump’s criticisms of Obama than raw racism, which he leveraged to divide the country and win the Presidency, but like BushII, only because we have an undemocratic Electoral College and a system of gerrymandering, ballot destruction and democrat district voter purging which has permitted Republicans to remain competitive.

    Trump made a point of hating Obama and everything Obama did, even when it was identical to what he wanted to do. He claimed he hated Obamacare and worked to dismantle it, yet promised to offer the same, “only better”, but never lifted a finger to actually create a new, better system. It was just politically successful hate speech. This won him many followers, particularly in the South. He hated the TPP and canceled it, correctly I might add, only to impose the same rules under a new name. He hated Obama’s border policy which was at least as rigorous at deporting people as anything the Trump Administration accomplished, though more humane in some respects. He claimed he wanted to bring jobs home, balance the budget and reduce tensions with Russia. Manufacturing trends remained unchanged, the trade deficit and budget deficit rose dramatically while the completely unnecessary budget deficit also rose. Russia became pour latest worst enemy.

    Serial rapist Trump demanded that five black minors in NYC, falsely accused of rape, be executed by taking our a full page add in the NY Times with that demand. Trump never apologized for that mistake because he never admits he ever made a mistake, even when the facts clearly say otherwise. Trump consistently sided with police, no matter how violent they became and against BLM, no matter how peaceful their protests. There is a universal denial that the USA is racist among his followers even though income and wealth distribution and prison populations suggest otherwise. The Republican practice of eliminating black voters is widespread in States which they control voting protocols. That is racism far beyond just Trump.

  158. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Honey, it’s not changing, anthropogenic (not a real word) or even hallucinogenic. You are being hoaxed.


    Not only is the world headed into a Grand Solar Minimum–a cooling period–but plants, animals, and humans do much better when the CO2 is higher and the Earth is warmer.

    Add to that fact the purposely erasing of the heat waves of the 1930s and the 1910s and purposely erasing of the enormous forest fires of the 1880s, plus the record of 100-year droughts in California over the past 5,000 years and you’ve got something spelled H-O-A-X.

    But don’t stop there. Add the so-called models that have never ever ever predicted anything correctly and how the worst of the outcomes are routinely presented as “our” future.

    China is laughing at us, dude. They are building coal plants by the 100s and nuclear by the dozens. They know it’s all a huge fraud/hoax.

    That should send shudders up your ignorant spine. Stop participating in the hoax.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  159. sally says:

    cancelling the student debt is not the answer because the mechanisms that generate that debt are still in place..
    just federalize all education is the answer.. one examination for all people in all course levels. pass allowed to continue fail return to go and start the course over.. Everyone everywhere entitled to free a PHd it might take some a long time and others a few short years.

    Eliminate the privatization of education so people cannot get rich on education and hording the information students, professors, researchers and others need to succeed. Eliminate copyright and patents too, those laws create monopolies; when those two things are done no debt to become a Phd and no patent or copyrights to make some fat guy rich, the whole world will be educated.. and race, language and other dividers of humanity will disappear. everyone will begin to work together.

    • Thanks: Nancy
    • Replies: @Nancy
  160. @Emslander

    it will never happen.

    Eventually, I think it will happen. It’s all in the timing of future events.

    The world’s gov’ts are determined to come up with their individual CBDC’s. China supposedly already has theirs ready. Everyone else is late to the party.

    The economies of the industrialized nations are all in debt so deep they will never dig themselves out of that hole. Therefore they will default on that debt but covertly. They will attempt to come up with their CBDC’s before the SHTF on their respective economies. Since everything is so interconnected, the first to falter will cause the dominoes to fall one right after the other. It will be another Lehman moment but without an immediate palliative. The CBDC’s are to reset debt by just instantiating a new currency worth 10 or 50 or 1000 times the old and hand it out like candy and call everything square.

    If they fail in this attempt, the SDR’s are waiting to come to the rescue. As just another currency equivalent made up of the existing shit currencies, it has no long term chance. They’ll try to use it but it won’t last.

    At some point a nation holding lots of gold will declare that their currency is now at least partially backed with gold. The first to do this sets the new price for gold world wide. All other nations now must follow with some form of backing or else they won’t be able to trade. The Arabs might want to use oil. The Chileans might try copper. etc. The only common point among them will be that currency with no backing won’t be worth squat, even the US Dollar, military or no military.

    The US is going to be the biggest loser once US Dollar inflation starts to go towards hyper territory. Foreign central banks and investors will dump their Dollars and they will find their way back to the US to add more fuel to the price inflationary fires. It will be the perfect storm with a positive feedback loop attached.

  161. Franz says:

    I’ll settle for the Hoffer-Vidal model.

    Eric Hoffer and Gore Vidal came up with a simple solution to the Growing Up Absurd hypothesis developed by the anarchist Paul Goodman long time ago.

    They saw “craftsmanship” as the key to citizenship. Take lads who are good with their hands and have no interest in crap. Start them off in the most primitive boiler shop and let them literally work their way up to nuclear power if that’s what the economy needs.

    All the same with bricklaying to construction, grounding wires to electrical engineering, etc.

    The object is teach them in a work environment from the start. The fancy ivy halls are for children of the rich who ain’t gonna work anyway, and can hire specialists to keep their books.

    At NO point will our kids pay to be “educated” since they’re at work from day one.

    A country full of STEM workers will be quite as tedious as a country full of critical race theorists. We need a way to show, with no ambiguity, that the nation formerly known as the USA has a meaningful work deficit, and begin to change it.

    • Agree: Marckus
  162. frontier says:

    Hudson favors bailouts for student and mortgage debt holders, not the creditors.

    That’s a boldfaced lie – the bailout money will end up in creditors’ hands and continue the corrupt tuition gauging by educational institutions. That’s the real reason “prof” Hudson wants a bailout at taxpayers expense instead of lowering his tuition to make education cheaper. You, econ “professors”, have a conflict of interest larger that Mnt Everest and you should keep your mouths shut about this issue.

    Of course neither you, nor Hudson ever mention or even think about the taxpayers, for you, they’re sheep to be sheered, and if it was done once on a small scale you conclude it must be done deep and hard on a large scale… So, I have to explain to supposed economists that the government doesn’t earn any money, it only spends taxpayers money, all money spend by the government, whether for bailouts or something else, comes from the taxpayers, not out of thin air. Thin air is what econ professors have in their heads…

    Hudson absolutely addresses Fed lunacy, but apparently not in a way you can understand. He has always been clear that the Banks should have been nationalized, not unconditionally bailed out.

    Another boldfaced lie, actually two – first, bank nationalization is a bank bailout, and it would be a change for the worse. Second, I asked a specific question which wasn’t answered by either Hudson or you, but you said, it was…

    The Fed is effectively an arm of the government… and vice versa, which is the same. The government has exactly as much control over the Fed as they desire, the government created it in the first place. When Trump scolded Powell and told him to print more, Powell started printing like mad and he keeps printing for Biden despite the inflation jump. There’s no magic “nationalization”, whatever the case, there would be a central bank or a national bank, it’s a change of labels. Econ profs just love shifting labels around while preserving the corruption.

    Check the RBOZ – the Reserve Bank Of Zimbabwe – 100% state ownership and in full control of Zimbabwe’s money supply… the worst inflation after Wiemar, maybe even worse that that, Western aid is how the country survives now. It used to be prosperous with the “supremacists” on top…

    I conclude that Econ professors are the root of all economic problems, nothing they say ever works that way, neither bailouts, nor outsourcing, deficits, the service economy, globalization, immigration and what not. We need a replacement for economic science and its “professors”.

    • Troll: Mulga Mumblebrain
  163. fish says:

    Price control and regulations are the best way to fight inflation, not gold back currency.

    Gold values are determined by men, which means it can be controlled by men.

    Excellent point…..regulations and price controls are ginned up by angels whose motive are entirely pure!

    • Replies: @Smith
  164. Chris Moore says: • Website

    You’ve put your finger on exactly how Zionists destroy the human conscience so the goyim individual or group can be remade in their image, only as a lesser golem: Demoralization, brainwashing, remolding into Jew-lackeys or at least reflexively kosher.

    With Jews, the same process starts not long after birth and is far more strenuous.

    The US Military puts its recruits through a similar process.

    The point of basic training is to break down the recruits’ sense of identity and indoctrinate them to base their identity on their membership within the cult.

    Most cults use similar techniques, most based on Jewish/Zionist indoctrination techniques. Most “libertarians” aren’t liberated at all, but indoctrinated in a group-think cult that adheres to strict orthodoxy. ((Ayn Rand)), for example, is held up as a model for libertarians. She was a Zionist.

    • Thanks: Mefobills
    • Replies: @Bro43rd
  165. HbutnotG says:

    As for doctors, few truly qualified people go to med school these days and hence, the applicant pool lacks the truly qualified ones who realize that they can make way more money in much simpler things like an MBA or law, or both. So, today, so-called med schools are turning out physician assistants – not doctors. It’s the pay thing. HCFA took care of that in 1983. Allowable physician charges were cut in half and concomitantly, the applicant pool turned into affirmative action dopes, hardly qualified to practice medicine in the true sense of the word. Today, only a handful of specialties still manage to screen out the subpar ones. That laptop with checklist your GP sits in front of tells you all you need to know. That so-called doc is really just a clerk. Just make sure that your answers to his questions show up on that checklist’s possible answers – if it don’t, they’ll keep hitting keys and categories until it does.

    These days, those interested in “medical” sort of stuff and want a good income just go to vet school. No limit on what you can bill as a vet – which is peachy, now that a huge population of nulliparous 40 year old women treat dogs and cats like their children; and to top it off, many dog breeds have been genetically so screwed up, veterinarians live like doctors once did.

    And, by the way, the AMA is what started the erosion of the medical profession. The AMA is a Democrat instrument. Those AMA journals were a total joke to us 40 years ago already.

    • Thanks: Thomasina
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  166. Thomasina says:
    @Lawrence Miller

    I didn’t ask how it was working out for you personally, Lawrence. I asked how it was working out for those who took out a loan, went to college/university, and either dropped out or succeeded in getting a degree, but now can’t find a job. Some of these people feel they shouldn’t have to repay the loans they contracted for. Many of them got sucked into higher education when they weren’t higher education material, or they didn’t think it through, electing to go into fields where there just weren’t the jobs. That was my point: they didn’t stop to think.

    Like others have said, not everyone is cut out for academics, and this is a good thing. Academic are useless at many things. People should follow their own natural inclinations instead of being made to feel they are being cheated if they can’t attend university. The bar should be high, and half of the courses at university should be eliminated. We don’t need more clipboard administrators or financial manipulators.

    • Replies: @Marckus
  167. Marckus says:

    This is an excellent comment. Too many people study a field they hate or one that has little or no job prospects upon graduation. Either way, whether they paid cash for their education or borrowed it is money down the drain.

    Worse still is the one who attains a Masters in Microbiology, cannot get a job and is persuaded to instead study Chemical Engineering only to find out that there they also cannot find a job. There are a lot of highly educated people working at Walmart, stacking shelves and as cashiers.

    Then there are those who want a white tie, black pants and clean fingernails at $15/ hour rather than dirty clothes, greasy hands at $50 an hour. A job as a financial analyst sounds a lot more impressive than plumber that is until your toilet malfunctions at 11.48 pm at night.

    You are right. People do not THINK.

    As for your second paragraph it is concise, insightful, accurate and to the point.

    • Thanks: Thomasina
    • Replies: @bayviking
  168. Thomasina says:

    “That’s a boldfaced lie – the bailout money will end up in creditors’ hands and continue the corrupt tuition gauging by educational institutions. That’s the real reason “prof” Hudson wants a bailout at taxpayers expense instead of lowering his tuition to make education cheaper. You, econ “professors”, have a conflict of interest larger that Mnt Everest and you should keep your mouths shut about this issue.”

    Yes, this is what I’ve felt for sometime now, but didn’t have the guts to say it. Professor Hudson (and I could be wrong about this), like many others in his profession, appears to want to bail out the banks. Of course, they pretend to want to help the “poor little indebted students”, but it’s really to bail out the creditors and take the heat off the government that is being screamed at by angry students/parents, a government who never should have underwritten the banks’ loans in the first place.

    As you said, these guys just want to erase everything so that the games can start up again, so they can continue their gouging. The taxpayers end up paying again, but “who cares about the taxpayers”, they say. Bailing out the indebted students wouldn’t bring education prices down. Nothing would change, except future bailouts would be expected.

    The no-fault, bailout society being run by the economic lie-ence profession.

    Thank you, frontier.

    • Thanks: frontier
  169. Marckus says:
    @rebel yell

    You are absolutely right.

    However you will find pseudo experts like Mefobills disagree with you. According to him anyone who feels a moral obligation to repay a debt is a fool.

    This misguided attitude unfortunately results in moral decay whereupon the practitioner feels no moral obligation to do anything where anyone is concerned. Hence we have a breakdown in morals from betrayal of the obligation to discharge a loan to betrayal of ones responsibility to children and spouse, to refusal to look after parents who are old and or infirm and the list goes on and on.

    This is why we have so many lost souls. Their whole character is built on a foundation of quicksand and in a crisis they have nothing to hold on to. Observers, watching their antics over the years and noting their lack of ethics refuse outright to help leaving them to perish. Their bad actions come back to haunt them big time.

    The crisis we now face in this society, in my opinion, is due to the fact that no one has a moral obligation to do what is right and an immoral obligation to do what is wrong because it suits them at that moment in time.

  170. Smith says:

    So, I suppose we should wait until “angels whose motive are entirely pure” come down and control the monetary supplies.

    Can’t trust any human!

    • Replies: @fish
  171. Smith says:

    Your “take” is the usual American right wing lunacy “individualist” take.

    At the end of the days, you still depend on someone, you still pay for electricity, food and the other things.

    But because capitalists and rich people tell you that you are a special little independent snowflake.

    Everywhere in the world, China, Europe, Russia, Japan, you name it, all people go to school and then university, but it’s only a problem when America does it. I guess americans really are dumber than most of the planet.

    America really is a alien wasteland of the planet, americans are taught a specific talking point, and they never ever deviate from it. Money is god for them, that’s why they are now clutching pearls about spent money, on education of all things.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  172. @Smith

    I once saw a theory purporting to explain just why the USA ended up such a God-awful place. The author posited that those who migrated to the USA were not the best of those societies, but rather the dregs. the wannabe rip-off merchants and con-men, and those who just could not or would not get on with others back home. Seems cogent to me.

    • Replies: @Smith
  173. @HbutnotG

    The US medical-indudstrial-insurance complex is the perfect example of Yankee perfidy. Not intended as a system to increase society’s health and well-being, it is a merciless, infinitely corrupt, machine for gouging profits out of the flesh and blood of living human beings. If you can’t afford the health commodities for sale to the highest bidder you can fuck off and die-loser! And this Evil system is imposed by the USA everywhere it has sway, to greater or lesser extents.

    • Replies: @HbutnotG
    , @showmethereal
  174. @restless94110

    I do love really stupid Dunning-Krugerites like you-it increases my regard for cockroaches.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  175. Smith says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Or rather they just lack education, and what little educators they have happen to be some greedy scums.

    So that’s why now “americans” talk about the “moral obligation to pay debt”, old and young trained to be good little goy slaves who respect his master’s money.

    Then again, considering the circumcision rate, maybe they really are slaves.

  176. lloyd says: • Website

    The inviolability of legal contracts created capitalism and international trade that spread throughout the world. The Middle Eastern Kingdoms mentioned here did not expand beyond the Middle East. No wise merchant would dare risk losing all in a jubilee. This is caricatured in the Merchant of Venice and only a technicality in a Christian anti-Semitic Court saved the merchant Antonio. Germany cancelled all personal debt after World War Two because Germany no longer had a functioning economy. Julius Caesar after the civil wars, halved all debts. That brought about a economic revival.

  177. “for three thousand years, Sumer, Babylonia, all Near Eastern kingdoms and their rulers, normally, when they would take the throne, they would cancel the personal debts. Not the business debts, not the debts of merchants and traders, but the personal debts. And they did it because otherwise you would have the debtors falling into bondage to the creditors.”

    A policy like that has unintended consequences. It discourages lending, of course, but it also gives debtors an incentive to kill the king whenever they feel like escaping their debt.

  178. fish says:

    Then you might as well wait….

    • Replies: @Smith
  179. MBlanc46 says:

    Right. Turn us into a nation of welshers.

  180. bayviking says:

    On what possible basis could you possibly imagine you know enough about me to legitimately call me a liar? I have been reading Michael’s books since the 2008 crisis. He even answered a question for me from which I havetremoved respective addresses and names:

    Not if the gov’t had taken them over as a public option.

    On 1/11/13 1:07

    Isn’t the underlying reason for forcing taxpayers to make good on American Bank’s fraud and gambling that foriegn lenders on the lsoing end of these transactions would have stopped buying any more of our debt? US Banks would have lost virtually all future business.

    So I would call you an idiot, except I agree almost completely with your last paragraph. I would only have added one word, “almost” (every economist).

    • Replies: @frontier
  181. bayviking says:

    Germans understand there is always more trade work than technical work. To build the Golden Gate Bridge, took one brilliant phD engineer to design it, 2 or 3 to review the design, 20 or 30 designers and checkers to generate fabrication drawings for every part, and a thousand tradesmen to build and maintain it.

    But if you are good at Microbiology or Chemical Engineering there is still work for you, make no mistake about that.

    The fundamental problem is the US set out to create a financial economy in the seventies, based on paper shuffling by Banks, Insurance Companies and Real Estate Developers, what Hudson calls FIRE. We were going to all be part of a “service economy” with dirty manufacturing “offshored”. It was glorified in a book called “Megatrends”. The BIG MISTAKE IN ALL THIS NONSENSE, is some often high pay jobs are parasitic, in that they transfer money from one person (aka victim) to another (winner) whereas farming, manufacturing and mining create NEW WEALTH where none existed before. They are part of the REAL ECONOMY, which Hudson talks about, and he is not alone.

    It is wrong to lump Hudson in with the people that control the Fed and DC, who also run around with phD Economics degrees. For the most part they are just more pigs at the trough.

    • Replies: @frontier
  182. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    In other words: I have no way of rebutting your points, so I’ll make an obscure reference that no one understands and then call you names.

    What a cockroach.

  183. frontier says:

    On what possible basis could you possibly imagine you know enough about me to legitimately call me a liar?

    I called several of your specific claims “lies”, they’re simple enough to exclude ignorance. I don’t know or care about the general case and I don’t have to in order to address specific claims as presented here in clear text. Maybe these issues aren’t simple for you? It didn’t sound that way to me though.

    As I said before, an emergency case every 10 years is tolerable, a 13 year stretch of emergencies is out of a question. Since 2008 & Lehman Brothers (not bailed out) we’ve been into a never ending stream of emergencies and QE’s, the Fed’s balance and bank reserves have ballooned beyond any conceivable limit along with gov debt. This isn’t how the system is supposed to work but it keeps going and the results move from bad to worse.

  184. frontier says:

    The fundamental problem is the US set out to create a financial economy what Hudson calls FIRE. We were going to all be part of a “service economy” with dirty manufacturing “offshored”… It is wrong to lump Hudson in with the people that control the Fed and DC, who also run around with phD Economics degrees

    It’s quite hard not to do it though, precisely because student loan bailouts are going to do zilch about reversing offshoring or manufacturing revival. On the contrary, such bailouts would divert funds that could otherwise be used in the real economy.

    Like many others, Hudson talks a grand game but makes an obvious error when he presents the government as some sort of omnipotent entity that can bail out everybody and everything without any ill effects to the taxpayers or the economy. This is quite ignorant from economic point of view and I don’t think he isn’t aware of it. Even more, he’s been alerted to it multiple times and his proposals continue to lack realism or even a tiny margin of safety. In other words, Hudson proclaims marvelous intentions but takes the wrong road to them, and we know where that road leads.

    We have a political class that is under the spell of illusions and they are overly committed to preserve them… Economics plays a large part in this, with Hudson proposing an illusionary alternative, not at all different from the mainstream … “just print more money”… as if we didn’t get here doing exactly that.

    • Replies: @bayviking
  185. Smith says:

    Alright, so while we wait for the angels, who or what should control the monetary supplies?

    The animals? The trees?

  186. Mark G. says:
    @Lawrence Miller

    Is that the best you can come up with, some snarky remark about working at McDonald’s? Are you aware how many college graduates now are working jobs that don’t require a college degree and are weighted down with a heavy burden of student debt? There wouldn’t be these outcries for canceling student debt if it weren’t for so many people who can’t pay back their college loans because they couldn’t get a decent paying job with their college degree.

    Rather than get that same worthless college degree that everyone else now has because the courses were dumbed down so anyone can pass them, many of these young people could have gone to trade school. Plumbers, electricians and auto mechanics can make 40 to 50 thousand dollars a year. If you are into computers, there is a whole assortment of certifications and two year degrees. Same with business. I got a two year associate degree in accounting and got a job making 60 thousand dollars a year. That was after I wasted four years getting a bachelor degree in journalism. There are several times as many journalism graduates as job openings. The same is true for many other college majors.

    I’m not saying all college degrees are worthless. Most of the ones that are worthwhile are in science and technology fields that haven’t been taken over by woke leftists like most of the humanities and social sciences have. If you do have a desire to learn economics, literature, philosophy or history you would be better off learning them on your own. If you major in them in college you probably won’t get a job after you graduate and you won’t learn much either because people like Shakespeare, Aristotle, Darwin, Locke and so on are now just considered to be a bunch of dead white racist males and are being expunged from the curriculum.

  187. “Nothing in this life is for free !”

    Then you need more life experience

  188. bayviking says:

    The Fed has already demonstrated that it has unlimited funds with which to manage the economy. Unfortunately, it chooses to only help its criminal stockholders.

    70% of the economy is consumer spending. The rich spend little of their resources on living expenses, they invest it instead. But that investment is not taking place in the USA. Debt deflation is killing consumer spending. There is some evidence the Fed, under Powell, and the Federal budget under Biden, will provide more resources to consumers than we have witnessed so far. But as Sanders points out, none of that will come to any fruition if spineless Democrats engage in endless “bad faith negotiations with Republicans”. For example, Republicans scream the budget must be balanced whenever they lose power and Nancy Pelosi, another member of the wealthy class, agrees. Yet, whenever Republicans regain power deficits soar, their sacred fake rule goes out the window. The Republicans are banking on Democrat failure to hold power. They will do everything in their power to insure failure in the coming year. With few exceptions they are ruthless scum.

    The only thing that pulled the USA out of the Great Depression was Government spending, as Keynes explained a long time ago. Government debt is public savings and visa versa. So whenever the Federal budget is balanced, as Clinton did once briefly with some sleight of hand, consumers have no money and only the rich save or invest. We do not have a booming economy, as Trump pretends, when we are in the middle of another stock market bubble. Only money in the hands of the working class yields a booming economy.

  189. Marckus says:

    What a self righteous and sanctimonious jackass you are !

    Stevennonemaker88 is as much a legal name as DickDongg69. Do you include the 88 when you sign your name ?

    Your name is not a legal name with a number at the end and everyone on this site is entitled to use whatever handle they choose. Do you read what you write or listen to what you say ?

    Unz review is one of the last bastions of free speech.


    That is your quote ! What that means you Guatemalan idiot is that anyone can say WHATEVER they want. Then you contradict yourself and are looking for censuring of comments. Your views ARE different ie they are stupid and the data you use to back it up is bunk. If you are a fruitcake, snowflake or fagcake, stay off the site because you do not belong here. Too thin skinned, too easily triggered. Too many beans and tortillas.

    Go and snuggle with your fat ugly worn out Maya Indian wife, get her to pull some of her rotten teeth, get her to take a bath, plant some corn, rake some cowshit, help some of your family prepare for their trip to the US border, chase the chickens out of your hovel.

    Do something to keep you off UR. You (and we) will be a lot happier.

  190. onebornfree says: • Website


    “I conclude that Econ professors are the root of all economic problems,……..We need a replacement for economic science and its “professors”.”

    Although I understand why you’d reach that conclusion, it’s still a wrong conclusion. Not all Econ profs are at fault, although the vast majority [and the fools that believe them], surely are.


    The Austrian school is an exception [that proves the rule?] in my opinion. A clue to its importance would be the very fact that it is systematically across-the-board dismissed by all mainstream , overwhelmingly mathematically inclined, Marxist/Keynesian/Fascist [i.e statist] economists as an evil irrelevance to be avoided at all costs.

    As one of its most important contributors said:

    “Modern economics is a set of formal models and equations purporting to fully determine human behaviour, at least in the economic realm. And there is no way that uncertainty can be compressed into determinate mathematical models.” Murray Rothbard [emphasis mine]

    “The [Keynes] General Theory was not truly revolutionary at all but merely old and oft-refuted mercantilist and inflationist fallacies dressed up in shiny new garb, replete with newly constructed and largely incomprehensible jargon.” Murray Rothbard

    “It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.’ But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.”
    Murray Rothbard

    I suggest reading a short, clear, easy to understand essay by the great Ludwig Von Mises: “The Ultimate Foundation of Economic Science”, which destroys , once and for all, the single false primary assumption of all other schools of economic thought [eg Marxism, Fascism, Keynesianism and related], on which their theories are almost entirely based:

    “The Ultimate Foundation of Economic Science”

    Regards, onebornfree

  191. frontier says:

    I agree with most of what you wrote, but I don’t see how Keynesianism, or Hudsonism for that matter, is going to change anything.

    “The only thing that pulled the USA out of the Great Depression was Government spending” – I think it was more of a Glass-Steagall and WW2. The government caused the baloon-bust depression in the first place, actually the Fed as a part of it, the rest of the government played along and then found itself in the position of a savior, and it assumed additional powers with great gusto. Little has changed since then, actually Glass-Steagall was reversed to allow for larger, more destructive balloons. Highest avg S&P PE ratio during depression years – 32, max avg S&P PE ratio 2020 – 40…

    “Only money in the hands of the working class yields a booming economy” – Yes, but only if that happens in a productive, competitive economy. “Money for free” is the opposite of that, and said moneys always end up in the hands of the oligarchy. That becomes perfectly clear while looking at the wealth distribution of the top 0.1% vs the bottom 50%, before and after the money-for-free lockdown era.

    Keynesianism is all about redistribution to the top, masked behind care for the downtrodden, it’s a Trojan horse of communism, thus Hudson’s incessant dreaming of China. It’s not hard to point out where Keynes was wrong, the problem is, Keynes himself would have rallied against the monetary policies since the Great Recession, policies which are too loony even for an opportunistic hack like him. Today’s hacks have lost any sense of measure.

    • Replies: @bayviking
  192. Nancy says:

    ‘Reinventing the wheel’ is stupid….a 10 yr old can explain why. Why can’t/don’t ‘we’ check out others who have better educated citizenry, and copy what will work for us? Because we have ‘termites’ manipulating ‘our’ governance, who don’t want a well educated citizenry… they ONLY want what will enrich themselves, and beggar everyone else. It seems so simple! even a white working woman could understand it : ) (You wonder why the DNC had to cut Sanders off at the knees?)

  193. MarkinLA says:

    If the amount of growth in the money is much lower than the growth in the economy then prices should go down. That seems wonderful except when you start talking about wages, assets, and sound borrowing.

    Of course, the economy could just stagnate.

    The gold standard works in an agrarian economy where almost everything produced is immediately consumed. It doesn’t work in a industrial economy with durable goods as it’s basis.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  194. so there has to be some good reason why Facebook prohibits links to

    So I ask people to check out unzDOTcom for themselves, on facebook.

  195. MarkinLA says:

    I was beginning to think you were nuts but you just confirmed it.

    The people with the most common sense and ability should be given a huge handicap starting out in life because they made the correct decisions and the ones who didn’t should get an immediate head start in life. We already do this based on race and it isn’t working.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  196. Rubicon says:

    Note: Paul Jay. His new website is “

    He’s had Dr. Hudson, and most interestingly: retired Col. Wilkerson who’s noting a big shift in US funding for Israel.
    We recommend you listen to Wilkerson.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  197. @MarkinLA

    The US isn’t competitive because the overall cost structure in the US is way too high. Lowering costs would make the US more attractive to use the available labor. This is especially true now that AI is making inroads in the labor market.

    The Fed Gov sucks up too much of GDP. It needs a good downsizing and a gold standard would definitely curtail their nonsense programs.

    Things that cannot go on forever have a tendency to stop.
    Herbert Stein

  198. @MarkinLA

    I’m advocating paying for what you get and not paying for what you didn’t get. How is that not logical and above all fair?

    Those that got bogus degrees have no head start. They wasted years and have nothing to show for it. They are definitely at a far greater disadvantage than those with valid degrees that can earn a good living.

    If you have some logic I’m missing, show your work.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  199. MarkinLA says:

    The only way debt forgiveness works as a brake on stupid lending is if it is a regular activity known by everybody ahead of time, not something just done at the spur of the moment.

    If you have a jubilee every 50 years on the clock, people know to stop lending money years in advance of the jubilee. This puts a throttle on the economy. If it can happen anytime, nobody is going to lend unless it is at terms equal to that old banking saying – they only lend money to people who don’t need it.

    Some numbnuts think all lending should be illegal. It isn’t lending that is the problem is it not doing the due diligence on the project and people involved and bankruptcy laws that allow the lenders to get screwed again and again in reorganizations until there is nothing left for them.

    Prior to Micheal Milken’s junk bonds, it was extremely difficult for new companies with new ideas to get financing. Brokerages were partnerships and loath to underwrite IPOs for such companies and banks would not lend. The early deals were sound. Then other brokerages wanted to get in the game and standards collapsed like they always do in the so-called free-market.

    As long as DBL was the only game in town standards could be maintained and the bonds solid.

  200. Nancy says:
    @rebel yell

    Aren’t high school career counselors supposed to lay these facts out for families? As when Jau Leno’s mother was told, “You know, Mrs. Leno, school is not for everyone.” Oh yeah, the Termites have infiltrated all levels of American education…

  201. MarkinLA says:

    How were we able to send every WWII and Vietnam Vet to college on the GI bill, but not now?

    Because they all didn’t go to college. It was open to vocational training and middle class jobs not needing college degrees were plentiful.

    • Replies: @bayviking
  202. bayviking says:

    I certainly agree that to promote the general welfare, a virtuous cycle of production and consumption is required. We still have a real economy, even though it has shrunk, we would all die without it. It just happens to be overshadowed by a parasitic FIRE economy. The real TINA (There Is No Alternative) is that we must grow the real economy in order to produce real wealth. It isn’t growing, but it has not disappeared completely either.

    I also agree that there is a place in every sound economy for competition, but not with those sectors which are natural monopolies. All public utilities including health care, roads, sewer pipes, communication and education systems are natural monopolies and require either operation by government or regulated private operation, for the common good, not to maximize one monopolists market position. The record is clear on this, public utilities provide services at better prices to consumers and better wages and benefits to employees than private ones do. The encroachment of UPS and FedEx, on the postal service has caused package prices for the average consumer to go through the roof, who subsidize rock bottom prices for large clients like Amazon. It is not more efficient to have 3 delivery trucks visit your home street every day instead of one and costs have risen accordingly.

    The USA enjoys economic advantages no other country enjoys, namely by using the military to force everybody to pay for oil with dollars, this forces every other country in the world to hold dollar reserves. The USA also controls all monetary transfers in dollars, which are mostly just numbers on a computer screen, but they are cleared through US Banks, which opens the door to enforcing sanctions, a profoundly vicious, sadistic practice. The USA also controls most international lending and forces other countries to repay in dollars, which puts those economies at great risk. When they collapse we demand repayment in hard assets instead of dollars. These factors all play to our advantage, but they will not last. According to US propaganda, all these advantages are portrayed as if it creates a world governed by the rule of law. But that’s a big fat lie. It has created a world wherein the USA lives by one set of rules and everyone else is bound to another set of rules. Hudson calls this Super Imperialism.

    We are creating enemies who are planning to exit the system we enforce when they can. But, when Iraq vowed to take Euros for oil we attacked. When Libya formed an African Central Bank we attacked with proxies. We generally do not attack countries with nuclear weapons. Where, how and when all this will end is still unclear. But it will most certainly end eventually.

    We need to get serious about developing our strengths by keeping infrastructure costs down and subsidizing industries with the greatest potential for development.

    • Thanks: showmethereal
  203. @TKK

    Anyone who voted for Hillary probably has 10-15 IQ points on the midwit Trump Voter.

    • Replies: @Quartermaster
  204. Nancy says:

    Has it become an engrossing, and ferocious :), game of relocating deck chairs, (and chasing red herrings) instead of addressing the direction of the ship? (a Termite stragegy?) How about eliminating the ‘reserve system’, aka ‘full reserve’ banking system…i.e., no debt money creation by the commercial banks! Also, move money supply mangement to the Treasury, where the Constitution put it, and the supply can be increased/decreased to meet the current need, precluding inflation, etc.

    It was proposed in the Depression and supported by the majority of US economists IIRC. Wiki ‘The Chicago Plan’. (Oh, you trust the Termite Banksters vs the Treasury,under elected control? Remember, 16 yrs after Fed was installed to prevent ‘bank runs/chaos’, we have biggest economy disaster ever?)

    It has been heroically promoted by the late Stephen Zarlenga on his AMI website, and his book. Why couldn’t we get a sizable movement behind this idea.

    Yes, I know the Termites control the Fed Gov as well as the Banks, but the only (slim) chance we have is via the ballot box. Of ocourse, I think, as usual, the main problem is communicating…. how to share the main thrust in sound bytes … thinking of the ‘Death Tax’ renamed the ‘Paris Hilton Tax’, ‘1% vs 99%’, et al. A lot of creative brains here 🙂

  205. Nancy says:

    How about (Got to get the right # 🙂
    “$8 billion for Israelis – $0 for American Students!”
    “Israelis get Health Care + $8B a yr from American Taxpayers…..who get zippo.”
    “We let Banksters create money, our Gov borrows it and our taxes repay it – with interest!….is this crazy?”
    …now, you : ) on the banking issue, LOL

    • Agree: bayviking
  206. HbutnotG says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Yes. Medicine first got grabbed by the lawyer industry. Then (in order to “supposedly” deal with malpractice suits quickly going steroid and malpractice insurance companies right in lockstep) official government-bred “guidelines” got printed (by lawyers of course). Medical opinion was immediately solely confined to university – based (((ivory towers’ opinions))). HCFA’s billing limits (originally applicable to Medicare/Medicaid/VA) was quickly followed by all insurance companies and boom! you can only bill what some HS grad clerk said you could.

    So today veterinarians make way more money than doctors and they get the business petertricians* once did (dogs & cats are now nulliparous women’s “babies’), and the MBA’s (whose salaries increased 10 fold and get golden balloons, all since the HCFA days) drive around in a BMW while the doc’s tool around in a rusted out 8 year old Toyota. Visit the parking lot of your community hospital around 5 sometime. You’ll quickly catch on.

    (*) “petertrician” was what my mom thought old men went to see when they got problems urinating – true story.

    • Replies: @bayviking
  207. @A123

    Wow! I think this is the first comment of yours I agreed with.
    Absolutely – the system is a game for US colleges and universities to charge the highest they can in the name of supposed economic development. Same with the healthcare system. That’s not real economic development if it’s built on households going bankrupt.

  208. @Rosie

    You do realize there are many countries in the world where the university system is actually affordable – right? Many of them are the ones who send graduate students to the US who dominate a lot of the graduate programs. Like over-expensive healthcare (without even getting the best results) and education systems that burden the population with debt are like an anvil…

  209. @RoatanBill

    ” since the problem is not the spending, but the debt that the enforcers come to reap.”

    Spending is a problem too… When there is no restraint in spending by the government there is little incentive to keep costs manageable.

    • Replies: @Smith
  210. @Thomasina

    You repeat a popular story – but it’s not really factual.
    The real reason the US opened up to China was to get China on it’s side against the Soviet Union when Moscow and Beijing had a falling out. They weren’t think about cheap labor or lax environmental laws. They were thinking China had the largest standing army and it had nukes too.

    The capital that built up China was mostly ethnic Chinese that lived in other parts of Asia (though the majority was from Hong Kong and Taiwan). US companies got in late. In fact – most of them simply get contract manufacturers to make goods for them – so they don’t even invest money themselves into China.
    Only about 10% of Chinese university students go overseas… 90% are educated very cost effectively at home. The 10% who do go overseas pay cash… They don’t take out student loans. China has the largest STEM workforce in the world… And they do it without student debt. So no there was no silver platter. It’s called smart planning versus dumb planning. Even more dumb because now neither China nor Russia trusts the US at all and are growing closer and closer together. From what I understand – Russian higher education is relatively affordable as well.

    But to show what I mean – pick any infrastructure project in the US and compare to this scene below. The time value of money means China will reap much greater benefit by getting this done so much faster. The US didn’t teach the Chinese this… Let’s be honest – were US industrial workers going to have been able to compete with this type of work ethic??

    But it is interesting you note “treason”. The British and French considered it treason when citizens who worked in industry migrated to the US. In fact the Brits made it illegal – which is why the US stole industrial technology.

    There is nothing unique about it. For instance – look at this story about civilian nuclear technology. As noted – the French and Russians etc. worked with China. The US got in the game late. Now China developed their own and uses no western partnerships. 90% of it’s new nuclear reactors and 100% of it’s software are now domestic. But with the amount of power they need they still work with an outside country. The only country it now allows to build nuclear reactors in China…??? Russia. Why? They trust Russia – but not the west. It’s how these things always worked.

  211. Smith says:

    Uh, no.

    Spending for the right reason is not the problem. The state can spend as it wants, as long as it benefits the people, that means food, healthcare, education and such.

    I remember discussing with you this before, you are just another fiscal conservative who worship money, or gold in this case. But money is worthless without people and resources.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  212. Smith says:

    The US helped China a big way, that cannot be denied, the capital from oversea “ethnic chinese” actually come from US or Brit controlled colonies and vassals (Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea) and of course their introduction of China to WTO to normalize China as the world’s manufacturing company.

    That was their deal, USA hastily built up China to counter the USSR, just like now it builds up India to counter China.

  213. @Smith

    Once they run out of ‘honorary White’ compradores, and Hindutva fascists in India, and India follows its own interests, and, hopefully, those of humanity, the US/Israel/Atlanticist thugs will ‘lose’ India, too.

  214. @Smith

    ‘Conservatives’, ‘libertarians’, ‘neo-liberal capitalists’, ‘Thatcher/Reagan/Blairites’ etc, are all united by one, central, pathopsychological drive-the HATRED of other people.

  215. @showmethereal

    Did you see the latest results from the Chinese fusion reactor? They are so far ahead of the US now that it is funny. If the US had spent those trillions pissed up against the wall in terrorising humanity through military aggression, wisely, the US would still be in the game. That, of course, makes the US so deadly dangerous-a cornered, rabid, rat with nothing left but its fangs will lash out in unpredictable manner.

    • Replies: @T.Rebon
  216. Smith says:

    I will also address the myth of “chinese hard-working efficiency” as said by the singy boomer above.

    Watch American Factory, which is an Obama propaganda piece, but still contains many facts.

    It’s a story about a China private company doing the reverse, Fuyao Glass started to invest in a factory in the USA, so you have these contrasting eco-cultural conflicts.

    On one side, you have the fat american workers who constantly complain and fumble, always ask for more pay, more holidays, more union involvement. Worse, they even strike and go against the chinese managers, and force the company to be unionized and take more work safety measures.

    And on the other side, you have the “hard-working” chinese workers who constantly work, work, work, where they join the company since they are 18, live and eat inside the factory, and only return to their hometown ONCE OR TWICE a year because of work demand, and the chinese union is basically another “patriotic” organ of the company.

    Right wingers (me included) start mocking the american and start doubting how they can compete against the “hard-working” chinese with that “iron discipline”? That american plant is gonna be closed down soon I bet.

    Well, one of the last line of the movie is:

    By 2018, after losing tens of millions of dollars per year, the plant turned its first annual profit.

    And now I found out:

    As of early 2020, Fuyao had opened additional operating facilities in Greenville, South Carolina and Detroit, Michigan

    Hmmm, big think there. Turns out the fat unionized american “laziness” still turns a profit, a rather large profit in fact. It turns out that the “iron” work schedule of chinese workers who “sacrifice for the nation (company)” aren’t actually needed to make money.

    I imagine the chinese workers who watch this movie feel they were tricked all along, tricked by their own superiors. It turns out having solid wage, healthcare and holidays leave aren’t detrimental to productivity, and “work ethics” doesn’t actually matter.

  217. @Rubicon

    Wilkerson is good in some ways, but I have a problem with him when he refuses to deal with some obvious facts. I am not sure why he has taken this stance, but does detract from his voice. It makes him look stupid even venal.

    Wilkerson is not by any means a smart man.

  218. T.Rebon says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Did you see the latest results from the Chinese fusion reactor?

    I am interested in that, because over here in europe there is an 40 year advance without any useful results. So how much is the energy surplus?

  219. red22 says:

    Books are very inexpensive at SVDP.
    I buy textbooks for 1.49- 2.09.

    My degree and technical diploma have allowed me to grow and meet many intelligent, and ambitious people.

    My father gave me $ 600. and I borrowed
    $ 5000.

    The amount paid to the bank was $ 7300.

    I think a personal tutor would have been a better value for the money, though.

    College is far too time consuming, and
    personally humiliating.

  220. @Smith

    Keep whistling past the grave-yard, old son. Chinese conditions and pay have increased dramatically over recent decades, although one still sees pig ignorant Yankee pigs talking of ‘slave wages’ there. With the cost of living so much lower, Chinese workers save Big Time, hence the mass tourism of recent decades. Most Merkans don’t even have a passport.

    • Replies: @Franz
    , @Smith
  221. Franz says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Keep whistling past the grave-yard, old son. Chinese conditions and pay have increased dramatically over recent decades, although one still sees pig ignorant Yankee pigs talking of ‘slave wages’ there.

    And keep on and on with all that delusional thinking.

    China will build a fabulous consumer economy; Americans will get cast off plastic and make inferior sub-d0llar store CRAP no one wants as our plutocrats sell us off cheaper till our industrial engineers live on boxes near dumpsters to compete with rats for a square meal.

    When G.H.W.Bush said “They’d hang us from the lampposts if they really know what we’re doing do” ya really think he was talking about Comet Pizza?

    Dream’s over, time to wake up. The Chinese jog toward the future. The USA got Wiemar on it’s mind.

  222. Smith says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Well, the documentary has interviews with the workers in Fuyao Glass in China, you are free to trust them or not. And it’s also factual than Fuyao Glass in America engages in anti-labor activities, you have american workers winning cases against them.

    Still, it doesn’t matter because my point isn’t China vs America, it’s that bullshit “iron discipline” or “work ethic” doesn’t mean productivity, treating your workers well + stable wage = productivity.

  223. Dusan says:

    Pretty decent nonsense. I wrote papers like this in my freshman classes. This debt forgiveness is utter malarkey (as Joe would say)
    No matter what the inflation is, money has value. Somebody paid the money to someone else. Once we start forgiving debt then there is at least one party that is hurt in the process. This loan forgiving and “free service” is a communist utopia and does not work. The examples from Mesopotamia are laughable: they did not make it as a society, did they?
    So if you start forgiving debt for arbitrary reasons, then people will stop issuing debt. (Get it?)
    The free market will collapse and will be replaced by government-run system = socialism, communism. Your Norway is not exactly a model free capitalist state. All Nordic countries (and Germany as well) are not really tax heavens.

    • Replies: @Smith
  224. Bro43rd says:
    @Chris Moore

    Straw-man & ad hominem is all you big government apologists have. Ayn Rand is our (lolbertairians to use a mefo a-h) heroine, literally roflol. So out of touch of the freedumb (another mefo a-h) movement. I can’t decide if yall know you’re playing the part of useful idiots (a stalinist a-h) or are controlled opposition or trolls. If straw-man or ad hominem attacks scare off potential freedom recruits then “our” movement really didn’t appeal to them in the first place. The true battle is between the collectivists and the individual liberty promoters. Not the liberals vs conservatives establishment narrative, they’re one & the same just different factions of collectivists. Anyway keep shilling for largest organized criminal gang that has ever existed in the history of mankind. Good ideas don’t require force!

    • Agree: frontier
    • Replies: @Chris Moore
    , @onebornfree
  225. bayviking says:

    It takes longer to execute a plan than to write one. There will always be more vocational trade work than the need for highly trained physicists, etc. Educating citizens in Junior College or University, makes the country more competitive and efficient, just like road building and telephones. That hasn’t changed and never will. What has changed is US payroll deductions alone exceed total wages in China.

    We cannot afford not to educate our population. Excellent educational systems are the main reason the EU economy is larger than the US economy. But educational expenses have skyrocketed over the past forty years for two reasons, top heavy management and reduced funding by Federal and State agencies, led by Republicans. Republicans are interested in dismantling Government and turning control of our educational institutions over to the wealthy ruling class, so they can have lots more non-competitive profits which are not required by Government agencies. This can only erode the quality of service. The same thing has happened in prisons.

    The push to privatize everything is one more factor responsible for our economic decline. Second only to offshoring manufacturing.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  226. Bro43rd says:

    “Price control and regulations are the best way to fight inflation, not gold back currency.

    Gold values are determined by men, which means it can be controlled by men.”

    Do you not see the contradiction here? The group of government men who set price control & regulations are “good” but gold values set by men are “bad”. Let the trading parties use whatever they want to trade with. If party a doesn’t think they’re getting a fair deal then they can simply decline & move on.

    My main point is a market driven version of money is far less susceptible to coercive manipulations than fiat money. Control of money is what traps us in this current paradigm of abusive government. Good ideas don’t require force.

    • Thanks: Mark G.
    • Replies: @Smith
  227. bayviking says:

    The health-care sector now employs 11% of American workers and accounts for 24% of government spending. A well-functioning health-care sector is therefore a prerequisite for a well-functioning economy. The United States spends more than other countries without obtaining better health outcomes and that problem continues to get worse.

    The useless health insurance industry is a far larger problem than trial lawyers. The health insurance industry operates the real death panels every time they deny a legitimate claim, which is frequently with large costs, for no other reason than to see if you’ll do anything about it. If you don’t, they pocket the money.

    Each year, health care payers and providers in the United States spend about $496 billion on billing and insurance-related (BIR) costs, according to Center for American Progress estimates presented in this issue brief. As health care costs continue to rise, a logical starting point for potential savings is addressing waste. A 2010 report by the National Academy of Medicine (NAM) estimated that the United States spends about twice as much as necessary on BIR costs. Those excess administrative costs currently amounts to $248 billion annually, according to CAP’s calculations.

    By comparison uncapped medical malpractice litigation added as much as $97.5 billion dollars annually to the cost of hospital and physician services. But one advantage of permitting this litigation is it brings incompetent physicians to the attention of administrators. It is the only functional mechanism for holding incompetent physicians accountable.

    • Thanks: showmethereal
    • Replies: @HbutnotG
    , @HbutnotG
  228. Smith says:

    Actually, the market is controlled by men too, so no, it’s not “far less susceptible to coercive manipulations than fiat money”. In fact, it’s far more susceptible since the gold-hoarders can perfectly team up with each other and milk people like cow, and they don’t have to take into any accountability or responsibility, it’s their money vs you.

    That’s why we need government (elected or otherwise), as the responsible and accountable party who control the money supply, and not let any random ass fucker decide decide to let you swim or die depending on his own individual search for profit.

    Let the trading parties use whatever they want to trade with. If party a doesn’t think they’re getting a fair deal then they can simply decline & move on.

    Yeah, because a merchant has never enlisted thugs to get his money, never ever.

    The problem with “free-market”ists is that they have an almost mythical view of the “market”, never mind it’s by far the most corrupted aspect, way more than the government since it is unregulated, operated-in-the-shadow mess.

    • Replies: @Bro43rd
  229. Smith says:

    Which party is hurt in the process? The debtors?

    You are clutching pearls for the rich and greedy jews now? Have to pay them every cent with interests or they can’t have their new sport carts at the end of the month, can they?

    Mesopotamia was the cradle of civilization and the very first laws (the Code of Hammurabi) were written there.

    It’s amazing how americans are so clueless regarding history, they worship money and the free market, basically, anything otherwise is heretical communist claptrap, never mind the historical relation of money, market and government (hint: every historical functional societies, be it West, East or Middle, have the government controlling the money, dumbo).

    • Agree: bayviking
    • Replies: @frontier
  230. MarkinLA says:

    Those that got bogus degrees have no head start.

    They aren’t in debt at the start of their adult lives like those who got useful degrees. You can’t even see that?

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  231. MarkinLA says:

    And what does that have to do with the GI Bill being affordable?

    • Replies: @bayviking
  232. Bro43rd says:

    Uh yeah right? The government is filled with wise benevolent folks who would never take advantage. If the last 500 yrs of history has taught me 1 thing it’s this; the most ruthless people are attracted to government, willing to murder & coerce to maintain their positions of power. I’m supposed to believe that these people have humanity’s best interest at hand.

    Good ideas don’t require force. Government is 1 thing first & foremost, a monopoly on the use of force within a certain geographical area. It destroys humanity all the while lauding it’s efforts as saving us from muh bad men. It is the bad men.

    • Replies: @Smith
  233. Chris Moore says: • Website

    The true battle is between the collectivists and the individual liberty promoters.

    Where are all these “indivudual liberty promoters”? They’re a phantom, just like the “true Marxists.” Nearly the entire GOP are Judeofascist lackeys, including Rand Paul. Nearly the entire Democrat plantation are Jew-lackeys and Zionist-stooges. That’s kosher fascist collectivism.

    Even the founders sanctioned slavery. Even “libertarians” pretend to believe Holocaust and 9/11 dogma.

    You’re a coward and a tool. A good little golem.

    • Replies: @frontier
    , @Bro43rd
  234. @MarkinLA

    No, I can’t see that because it’s not true. If someone took out loans to get a degree in one of the basket weaving disciplines like gender studies, sociology, etc, then he’s still burdened by loan repayment AND has no reasonable job.

    Can’t you see that?

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  235. frontier says:

    Which party is hurt in the process? The debtors?

    The taxpayers in case of gov bailout, bank depositors and taxpayers in case of outright default, the entire economy in both cases. One party that won’t get hurt is the rich… “Controlling the money” doesn’t mean automatic bailouts, quite the opposite, in fact, the control must assure bailouts don’t happen – absent deep corruption, of course. “Mesopotamia”… why don’t you move there and live happily ever after? Your questions and ramblings reveal profound ignorance of all matters economics.

    • Replies: @Smith
  236. HbutnotG says:

    Much of that $97.5 billion in malpractice costs are spent not on “incompetent” physicians but what amounts to an economy within an economy. First off, many (including the biggest) malpractice suits are lawyer-game suits having nothing to do with physician “incompetence” (physicians weed out the crocks on their own it’s called peer review). An undesireable outcome of a disease (often unavoidable, now or in the long run) with the right lawyer can be a jackpot. And the pockets are deep, especially since malpractice insurance companies no longer do much to defend their policyholders – they just pay out. To be honest, physicians today must do algorithmic medicine just to avoid getting sued – whether or not that (biz grad devised) algorithm makes medical sense in that particular situation or not. You do it that way and document that you did it that way – or risk a lawsuit. It amounts to lawyers and biz grads practicing medicine.

    The incompetent doc’s you hear about on TV news, etc., are a very small fraction of actual real life malpractice suits. Ever notice they often center around plastic surgery? That is a very small province of medical practice yet it is subjective and hence always settled bigly, almost always out of court. OB is another one. Most OB’s quit long ago because their malpractice policies got so expensive.

    “Incompetent” can simply be a disagreement with one, usually sequestered and lawyer-favored consultant, who never practiced in the community, and usually deals only with subjective cases. “My opinion eclipses everybody else’s opinion – because I (and the lawyers) said so.”

    So, between regulated billing and people so intent on getting a lump sum to pass on to their offspring, smartees know better than to even get involved in medicine. These are people that can get an MBA blindfolded with their hands tied behind their back.

    Hospital administration apparently dodged the billing caps – a bed went from $350/night to $5600/night all since the 1983 HCFA ruling. Look at your hospital bill and insurance payout some time. The insurance companies went right along with that. That bed bill is what gives the administrators their Lexuses. Insurance companies are banks and those guys were pals back in school (wink, wink). Doesn’t anybody wonder why hospital lobbies in the past 30 years came to look like the lobby of a 5 star hotel at tremendous cost? Anybody ever wonder why?

    As an infection control expert (a pet side to my usual practice) in just 10 years, I watched infection control committees go from 10 very involved people (6 docs including an infectious disease specialist and a pathologist), an infection control nurse, a pharmacist, a microbiologist, and an administrator) to… 42 people – 28 of which (I counted) were administrative employees, most of those just there as “part of their job description.” Ironically, hospital-acquired infections (real ones) increased somewhat over that same period, probably for reasons other than increasingly sloppy hospital practice. So what’s the point? I’d ask myself.

    • Replies: @bayviking
  237. bayviking says:

    The balanced Budget Bullshit is just class warfare, totally unnecessary, even though it is part of EVERYTHING Pelosi wants to do, she calls it “paygo”. Can’t say the same about Republicans that throw balanced budgets out the window as soon as they gain power after screaming the loudest that we are on the road to ruin if we don’t balance our budget during every Democrat administration. Strange that few people pick up on this ridiculous hypocritical pattern. More married to their parties than reason.

    Need additional proof, how about the $29 trillion and counting, generated on a computer to bailout criminal Bankers. “Quantitative Easing” (QE) is STILL with us.

    You might consider reading “The Deficit Myth” to gain a grip on reality. We can afford free college for everyone qualified. So like Europe, performance standards derived from testing, as a prerequisite to free college for everyone. This is actually something less than the GI bill for every WWI and Vietnam Vet. The advantage to this approach is you end up with the natural distribution of highly educated and trade educated workers. There is always more demand for tradesmen. And they are equally entitled to a free education, in their specialized field.

    • LOL: frontier
  238. frontier says:
    @Chris Moore

    “Where are all these “indivudual liberty promoters”? Nearly the entire GOP are Judeofascist lackeys, including Rand Paul.” – Saying “nearly” means there are some promoters, and others who do it at least outwardly, and that’s only among the politicians, among the people there are many more, be them GOP or Dem voters, and they are entirely sincere. It’s an American tradition, remember? Why are you peeved by it?

    “Even the founders sanctioned slavery.” – Aaaand? Slavery was inherited from the Brits and it was common back then. It would be impossible to build an entirely new governing structure and engage in abolitionism at the same time. You are laughably clueless about the complexities involved. Jefferson wrote that slavery would inevitably be abolished, too bad it was done the wrong way, but it was done – in accordance with individual liberty as a value.

    “dogma, shmogma” – What’s you point? That individual liberty is bad? Or, it has no supporters? You provided zero arguments for either, replacing them with ignorant sound bites devoid of any value whatsoever.

    • Thanks: Bro43rd
    • Replies: @Chris Moore
  239. frontier says:

    “The balanced Budget Bullshit is just class warfare” – Just like that, believe my hat and the rabbit inside it…

    “highly educated and trade educated workers” – for free, really, with fine pink unicorns as garnish… Why limit ourselves with fine educated workers, why stop feeding them after education? With free money we can make everything free, free for everyone. Believe you me, free, free, free at last. All free – fine education, fine housing, fine cars, fine wine, food, beer, booze, and crack… especially crack, like the one that produces bayviking’s hallucinations. Then everyone will be able to enjoy fine hallucinations on the subject of their choice…

    I have to stop reading Unz, it’s a clown world indeed, actually, clown world on crack is more like it…

    • Agree: Bro43rd
  240. @bayviking

    You have made some good comments on this thread. Thanks.

  241. Smith says:

    Actually, the government is not always good, which is why we need to always take them into account and force them to be good, since the government is almost always created by the public/society.

    You have repeat the fact the government being flawed numerous times, yet you seem to be fully accepting the market being flawed, hmm, I wonder why that is?

    Good ideas don’t require force.

    Except good ideas DO require force, that’s entirely the idea of laws and civilization, that are good ideas but enforced in order for humanity to live and let live.

    You are repeating mantra that isn’t true and crumbles at the tiniest of pressure.

  242. Smith says:

    Except it is the debtors (the banks, the feds, or rich people) who give out these money, the individual taxpayers have no force or even money to do the spending, all they do is giving their money to someone else (the debtors) to spend.

    “Controlling the money” doesn’t mean automatic bailouts, quite the opposite, in fact, the control must assure bailouts don’t happen – absent deep corruption, of course.

    Controlling the money means the money serves the people, not the money itself. When most people are indebted, then it’s wise to get them off that debt, so they don’t have to work daily and night to pay off debt + interest.

    “Mesopotamia”… why don’t you move there and live happily ever after? Your questions and ramblings reveal profound ignorance of all matters economics.

    I am a native vietnamese living in Viet Nam, you fool, and yes I live happily here ever after. And no, I do not ramble, you demonstrate your profound ignorance of BASIC history by not knowing Mesopotamia being the cradle of civilization, where the first laws of government and economics existed.

    • Replies: @frontier
  243. MarkinLA says:

    I tried to give you a concise simple answer for why the GI Bill was affordable and each time you come back with more drivel completely unrelated to that. I don’t bother wasting time on all these scatterbrained rants.

  244. MarkinLA says:

    Your illogical rants are getting tedious. Who defines what a worthless degree is? Your stupid post suggested only loan forgiveness for those with a worthless degree. Every degree has some level of worthlessness.

    Doctors and lawyers with huge student debt convinced bankruptcy judges their student debt needed to be cancelled (when it was allowed) because they were planning to do community service work and not go for the big bucks. Therefore, they did not have the means to make the payments. Of course, after 6 months in the Peace Corps they started making money.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  245. @MarkinLA

    I laid out a clear bit of logic that you find impossible to counter, so you start being obnoxious. I understand your frustration with encountering someone that won’t put up with your feeble minded nonsense.

    It must be a new experience for you. Deal with it.

  246. Chris Moore says: • Website

    What’s you point? That individual liberty is bad? Or, it has no supporters? You provided zero arguments for either, replacing them with ignorant sound bites devoid of any value whatsoever.

    “Individual liberty” is easily hijacked by Judeofascists — and was. That’s why we have increasing Zionist totalitarianism.

    People who preach “individual liberty” are on the take from gangster/banker Zionists and Judeofascists, or are their useful idiots. Yes, individual liberty is bad when a nation doesn’t have the character or integrity to resist Zionism and Judeofascism.

    “Even the founders sanctioned slavery.” – Aaaand? Slavery was inherited from the Brits and it was common back then. It would be impossible to build an entirely new governing structure and engage in abolitionism at the same time.

    And the Brits got it from the Jews and the Muslims. Why didn’t Western Civilization accept slavery? Because it was authentically Christian. But the Anglo Zionist empire accepted it, because it was and is pathologically greedy and evil, just like the open borders ((Globalists)) are pathologically greedy and evil, and making the same Faustian bargain as did the founders and early settlers who wanted MORE! FASTER! BIGGER! future generations be damned.

    You are laughably clueless about the complexities involved.

    No, you’re making it complex in the typical Talmudist and Zionist way, when it’s really quite simple: Weak, sick and pathologically greedy people fall for “easy money” Jew ear-whispering every time. They’re unfit to lead, and ultimately making themselves extinct for a quick buck, and trying to take the West with them.

    Quite shilling for Jews, you pathological lackey.

    • Replies: @frontier
  247. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    True…. By far the most expensive medical system – and yet not even in the top 10 in achieving healthcare results. But many say it’s “the best ever”.

  248. @Smith

    It was the Chinese management changing the culture at the US locations that eventually made them profitable.. So your idea doesn’t add up. If no changes needed to be made the new owners wouldn’t have had to save anyone’s job in the 1st place.

    • Replies: @Smith
  249. bayviking says:

    Let’s keep it simple for the simple minded free marketeers. There are only two issues in politics, money and morality. Opinions on those two issues define differences in tax policy. For progressives taxing the rich compensates for the fact that capitalism’s fatal flaw is that it consistently concentrates wealth. Conservatives say, so what, it is better to have a few super-rich people and millions of poor people because rich people are the reason everyone has a job.

    Lincoln saw the error in Conservative thought when he stated: “Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”

    Promoting the general welfare is a constitutional mandate. This requires an industrial policy, which boils down to Government subsidization of worthwhile ventures, to get them off the ground. In our country that often begins with military budgets. In our system private equity and Wall Street can be another source of capital for new ventures . Banks lend nearly exclusively on Real Estate or Cars. But in one case, when AT&T was regulated, they invented the transistor, operating research labs subsidized by taxpayers. When the military heard about this they declared it too important to be patented and they prevailed.

    Promoting the general welfare requires capital, labor, natural resources and technology. Capital is controlled by the Federal Reserve which caters to its 22 filthy rich stockholders. The only way labor has ever been able to capitalize on its power and share on national wealth, is when it is unionized. Almost all new technology is a product of our educational system or taxpayer funded private research. Natural resources belong to the general welfare, not Rockefeller for oil or the Walker family for Northern California timber. Everybody from a janitor to the President deserve a living wage. The push to privatize everything is immoral and unconstitutional.

    • Replies: @Chris Moore
  250. frontier says:

    I am a native vietnamese living in Viet Nam, you fool, and yes I live happily here ever after.

    That’s what I thought, a commie shill. You aren’t qualified to give advise about US policies, you’re too far from the realities here, and it shows. Your writing lacks rational content, replaced by silly moralizing – commie style. America has its problems but becoming commie Vietnam isn’t a solution for US. If you’re happy there, what are doing on Unz, repeating empty slogans like a typical commie drone? Can’t you do that on a glorious Vietnamese site? To make the party happy?

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @Mulga Mumblebrain
  251. frontier says:
    @Chris Moore

    There’s absolutely nothing constructive in you comments, you keep repeating the same set of soundbites, only adding “Talmudist” the last time around. Apparently, I have to be ashamed of myself for my alleged slave-owner past and not having the integrity to resist “Judeofascism”… Yours is only a slightly different Critical Race Theory, endless shaming for alleged moral failures – this style has been extensively criticized and shown to be a big pile of cow manure, the same applies to your “theory”. Of course, you’re still laughably clueless about what needs to be done, your whole point is to perpetuate the blame game, in hope to… dazzle with bullshit? And to baffle by repeating it? In any case, conversing with you is utterly useless.

    • Agree: Bro43rd
  252. onebornfree says: • Website

    “The true battle is between the collectivists and the individual liberty promoters. Not the liberals vs conservatives ”

    And not between the fascists vs the commies, either.

    Like “liberals vs conservatives “, they [fascists +commies] are just minor variations on the exact same theme: collectivism, i.e. the rule over many by the few [the elite], “for the good of the majority”. And most of the many, dullards as they mostly are, fall for it, [ the “for the good of the majority” b.s.] time and time again, due to their , from birth, pro-government programming. [eg state funded “Education”, TV “programming” etc.]

    “If you have total government it makes little difference whether you call it Communism, Fascism, Socialism, Caesarism or Pharaohism. It’s all pretty much the same from the standpoint of the people who must live and suffer under it.” ― Gary Allen, “None Dare Call It Conspiracy”

    “Why are the super-rich for socialism? Don’t they have the most to lose? I take a look at my bank account and compare it with Nelson Rockefeller’s and it seems funny that I’m against socialism and he’s out promoting it.” Or is it funny? In reality, there is a vast difference between what the promoters define as socialism and what it is in actual practice. The idea that socialism is a share-the-wealth program is strictly a confidence game to get the people to surrender their freedom to an all-powerful collectivist government. While the Insiders tell us we are building a paradise on earth, we are actually constructing a jail for ourselves.” ― Gary Allen, None Dare Call It Conspiracy

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Agree: Bro43rd
  253. Bro43rd says:
    @Chris Moore

    Once again you attack me with straw-man and ad hominem. You claim I’m a good little golem, but I’m the one arguing against our current rulers the anglozionists, somewhat contradictory ad hominem imo. But nice try, lol.

  254. @Smith

    It is off topic from this thread – but again you are mis-characterizing the situation.

    “The US helped China a big way, that cannot be denied, the capital from oversea “ethnic chinese” actually come from US or Brit controlled colonies and vassals (Singapore, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea”

    Japan and South Korea came after. The overwhelming majority was from Hong Kong – Taiwan and ASEAN. Not just Singapore but all of ASEAN. I mean even the Siam king was worried going back to the civil war because you had so many Chinese in Siam who were sending resources to the both the Nationalist and Communist side to support them in the civil war (and yes same with Singapore). Chinese were targeted by Japan and Japan friendly governments in ASEAN because aside from sending supplies – some even went back to China to fight against Japan. Chinese from as far as the Caribbean went back to China to fight Japan. Do you know what the “Nationalists” mean in the Republic of China? It meant to get rid of foreign influence as much as possible. The idea that in the 70’s and 80’s when the PRC reformed its economy that the Overseas Chinese invested into China in service of the US is absolutely ridiculous. Even in Taiwan – the Nationalists were only paying lip service to US influence because they hoped the US would help them retake Mainland China. Yeah sure they did like Japan and learned baseball and western instruments – but just like Japan – that was only because they “had to”. The ROC in Taiwan if they could have kept the Mainland would have thrown off the US shackles long ago.

    Ask the British what happened in the Suez Canal incident and why the US didn’t back them… Ahhh – that pretty much marked the end of the pound sterling. “With friends like these…..” The US was no friend of Chiang Kai Shek – aka “cash my check”. The only purpose is to stifle China. The US wants China to in affect sign a Plaza Accord like Japan did in the 1980’s. But if the ROC kept the mainland and got rich faster – as many westerners claimed – then China would have passed the US probably back in the 1980’s. Then what? Would a huge China with it’s own military fall on it’s sword like Japan? Not at all. Who knows what would have happened. Read the constitution in Taipei. They still claimed millions of square kilometers of land in what is now Russian Far East – Mongolia – Kazhakstan – India that the PRC gave up claims on. So there might have been devastating wars. I went off on a slight tangent – but the bottom line is no ethnic Chinese were investing in Mainland China with the goal of serving the west. That is utterly false.
    In fact – Lee Kwan Yew told the west over and over “you have to make room for China. Look at Chinese history – it is inevitable. We in Singapore were children of laborers that left China and look what we were able to accomplish”. Nothing in there sounds anything remotely like subservience.

    Yes the WTO issue is separate. Then China became more intertwined with the west and the US. But prior to that it’s economy was more Asia oriented with mostly Asian investment. Even technology wise. Russia – Germany – France – Japan shared more tech with China than the US did. No matter how much US politicians cry and complain – those are the facts. That’s why even now German – French – Japanese companies were quicker to set up R&D offices in China than US companies who only started doing it recently.

    • Replies: @Smith
  255. Smith says:

    With the chinese management in place, they still did many anti-labor activities.

    It was actually the US workers’s strikes and the company losing cases in court against workers that actually convince the chinese management that the company has to be unionized, and only after that, the company gets out of the death spiral.

    So no, this is a case of the US workers or at least US labor laws changing the chinese work-culture.

  256. Smith says:

    There are many youngsters here who can learn a thing or two about socio-economic system.

    It’s better to educate them, rather than letting the Austrian claptraps keep clapping.

    And no, there’s no literally no moralizing in my post, it’s all factual regarding history and politics. Every functional states have a government controlling the market, the “free capitalist market” either leads to the anarchy or oligarchy like the US right now where they teach you from childhood that you cannot ever go against the “invisible hand” of the market (which is actually not invisible, just hidden).

  257. Chris Moore says: • Website

    Promoting the general welfare requires capital, labor, natural resources and technology. Capital is controlled by the Federal Reserve which caters to its 22 filthy rich stockholders. The only way labor has ever been able to capitalize on its power and share on national wealth, is when it is unionized. Almost all new technology is a product of our educational system or taxpayer funded private research. Natural resources belong to the general welfare, not Rockefeller for oil or the Walker family for Northern California timber. Everybody from a janitor to the President deserve a living wage. The push to privatize everything is immoral and unconstitutional.

    The filthy rich stockholders have been slowly, steadily and systematically infiltrated and controlled by Zionist criminals. It was a process very similar to their takeover of MSM. Hence, today we have endless wars for Israel and endless MSM war against whites who are the only ones in a position to take the country back from the crime gang.

    But the corrupt and retarded establishment — be they “conservatives,” “libertarians” or “liberals,” refuse to even acknowledge the “Jewish” rackets, let alone do anything about them.

    “Jewish” is in quotes because they aren’t even “Jews” in the Moses sense, they’re actually in the tradition of the criminal Hebrews he brought to justice. They’re outlaws at war with civilization. And they need to be brought in yet again.

    • Replies: @bayviking
    , @Chris Moore
  258. Thomasina says:

    The U.S. workforce were at one time just as industrious and ant-like as the Chinese. Check out the building of the Hoover Dam, for example.

    China has had the huge advantage of not having to “invent” anything. Yes, print up dollars and send your students overseas to learn what others invented, or import Western professors to teach in China. China used the technology that others developed and then went into “copy” mode. Kind of like turning on the light switch and then patting yourself on the back, thinking that somehow you did something.

    You think that China got built up without U.S. and British money? Ha! Think again.

    “It’s called smart planning versus dumb planning”. Yeah, okay, like all the empty high-rise buildings? China pushed hard on the “stimulus” button and has never taken its foot off the pedal. “Hey, we got growth. Who would have thunk it?”

  259. bayviking says:
    @Chris Moore

    While i would agree with you that criminals are in charge of our Government, I am loath to blame everything on the Jews. For one thing recently released records point to Johnny Roselli, Carlos Marchello and Santos Trafficante plotting and executing the assassination of JFK, MLK and RFK. All these mafia bosses have links to the CIA, having been hired to assassinate Castro instead, which failed. This tragic string of assassinations began in response to aggressive prosecution by the Kennedy brothers. How do we know? Marcello was recorded in his prison cell admitting to these crimes while the other two confessed to their lawyers, which was revealed after their deaths.

    That does not rule out a management role by Mossad, which has always worked closely with the CIA. But these mafia bosses were certainly capable of carrying out these crimes by themselves. They had the means and the motives.

    I stand against unnecessary violence routinely carried out by the US and Israel. Both the CIA and Mossad have an abysmal human rights record. I would also agree that MSM support of Zionist causes is over the top insane. But it is disingenuous to blame Jews for all that is wrong with this world. Doing so invites a repeat of WWII. Israel is small compared to the US military industrial complex, which seems to have the last word on most policy in this country and accounts for much of the fall in the standard of living of ordinary working class Americans.

    • Agree: Bro43rd
  260. Smith says:

    That’s a wall of text for nothing.

    ASEAN at the times (the 80s) was poor as hell and had a crisis in the 90s, the only countries that seriously invested in China are the Asian tigers which are all US/Brit colonies and vassals.

    And let’s not pretend the powers that be that influence these places, if the US was really anti-China at the times, they would have seized properties of these people/companies or sanction these countries easily. No, but because they needed to build up China to counter the USSR, this didn’t happen.

    The US had a huge part in the building the modern post-Mao China, it’s not up to debate. Hell, this process was already being thought up since Mao met Nixon, when he said he wanted chinese goods to be sold in the American market.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  261. @Thomasina

    What an ignorant, stupid, racist, Orientalist fool you are. The arrogance is stupefying, and given China’s rapid advance, laughable, but racists who cannot stomach that they are being outdone by their betters are very dangerous as well as pathetic.

  262. @frontier

    One only knows a little individual and group pathopsychology and the history of deranged societies that terrorise their neighbours before committing suicide to understand the USA fully.

    • LOL: frontier
  263. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @Chris Moore

    I stand against unnecessary violence routinely carried out by the US and Israel.

    “Israel” is the Jewish state. The Deep State is the partially Jewish state.

    Both the CIA and Mossad have an abysmal human rights record.

    The Mossad’s informers and supporters include a ton of Jewish 5th Column syanam.

    I would also agree that MSM support of Zionist causes is over the top insane.

    All those sayanam need something to do besides commit treason for Israel. They can commit treason, and stir up trouble for international Zionism, too.

    But it is disingenuous to blame Jews for all that is wrong with this world.

    Why? According to the Zionist narrative, the world was made for the “Chosen” in the “Chosen’s” image. I see, they want the credit for all that’s good, but none of the blame for all that’s evil. If they don’t want the blame, they shouldn’t play the game. They should drop their “Chosen” narrative, face reality, and join the human race

    Doing so invites a repeat of WWII.

    Jewishness caused WW1, WW2, and is attempting to start WW3. What, they shouldn’t have to be held accountable for their crimes against humanity? Oh, I see. Back to the “Chosen” narrative already.

    Israel is small compared to the US military industrial complex, which seems to have the last word on most policy in this country and accounts for much of the fall in the standard of living of ordinary working class Americans.

    There would be no military industrial complex but for Jews starting wars between goyim nations and then slipping away to drink Champaign and watch the bloodshed from afar. Nice try shilling for the Jews and their scumbag stooges, though.

    • Replies: @bayviking
  264. bayviking says:
    @Chris Moore

    The military industrial complex is capable of perpetuating itself, through fake threats and bribery. As the terrorist threat has diminished Russia and China are reemerging as existential threats to our way of life and on and on it goes, with or without Israel. But Israel is seen by many as playing a key role for the US in Mid-East military strategy, as it applies to Kissinger’s strategy of control of food and oil.

    • Replies: @Chris Moore
  265. Chris Moore says: • Website

    As the terrorist threat has diminished Russia and China are reemerging as existential threats to our way of life and on and on it goes, with or without Israel.

    What exactly is “our way of life”? It used to Greco-Roman philosophy, logic, science and technology moderated by “anti-Semitic” Christian morality. Now “our way of life” is Jew-stoogery.

    But Israel is seen by many as playing a key role for the US in Mid-East military strategy, as it applies to Kissinger’s strategy of control of food and oil.

    Ah, yes, the Nixon-((Kissinger)) designed Petrodollar racket, which ultimately serves the Zionist gangster/banksers and Israel. It was a crucial instrument in converting America to Jew-stoogery, and came right on the heels of another treasonous, Israel-first Jew-stooge, ((LBJ’s)) whitewashing of the sinking by Israel of the USS Liberty.

    The treason has been in-your-face for anybody who wanted to open their eyes for decades.

    • Replies: @bayviking
  266. HbutnotG says:

    No it isn’t. Doctors invented peer review. And it still goes on. I know. I was on a peer review committee. We’d fuck a guy we played golf with just a week before if we needed to.

    The biz and legal industry not only stole peer review from docs but also invented that huge ridiculous neo-vocabulary of biz school (a concept copied from med and law schools) that pumped pie charts up to some ridiculous blah blah meaningless thing and upon which they fluffed up 2-bit biz courses and nowadays just by rubbing elbows with the right person you can base a 6 or 7 digit income. Pffft!

  267. @Smith

    “And let’s not pretend the powers that be that influence these places, if the US was really anti-China at the times, they would have seized properties of these people/companies or sanction these countries easily”

    You have no clue what you are saying… China was under embargo from 1949 until the 1970’s. Even then more sanctions came after 1989.

    “the only countries that seriously invested in China are the Asian tigers which are all US/Brit colonies and vassals.”

    Again – you don’t know what you are saying. It was individual investors and not their governments.

    The west NEVER expected the communists to be good at business. The only thing they wanted was China to potentially fight the USSR if need be. They always expected China to continue to be poor laborers and that’s why they are running around like chickens with no heads trying to figure out how to stop it. They hope you Vietnamese will be poor laborers and never grow past a certain point either. The west isn’t building up Vietnam. Vietnam is just taking advantage of the open market to them. Same thing

    • Replies: @Smith
  268. @Thomasina

    “The U.S. workforce were at one time just as industrious and ant-like as the Chinese. Check out the building of the Hoover Dam, for example.”

    Really? Was it? You do know the Chinese Exclusion Act was implemented to keep Chinese out because they were “stealing the jobs of white men” right? Chinese were murdered and lynched by white mobs for taking away their jobs because it was said a chiney-man works twice as hard for half the pay.
    In any case – what stopped the US workforce from being so industrious now?

    What empty high rise buildings??? You mean ones that were built 10 years ago and are occupied now? Again – another westerner who is clueless about the other side of the globe.

    Also – I would like you to show me what US and British money went into building up China. Give me the examples. You must mean the bonds that the Republic of China sold. Those went nowhere. There was that little thing called the Japanese invasion and then the civil war that happened. then the US cut off all support when the communists won.

    As to stimulus… Do you seriously want to compare the two? Again you are misinformed. Indeed China turned on the stimulus in 2008 when the US and UK destroyed the global financial system. You don’t realize what would have happened if China didn’t add stimulus in its economy and buy LOADS of US bonds to stabilize the US system – huh? Well they learned and aren’t helping the US this time around… Instead they are buying precious metals instead:

  269. Smith says:

    Individual investors are allowed to invest in China, the US control them.

    If the US wanted to the money to stop, they could easily have, as they are already doing now with the chinese “individual investors”. Look at what’s happening to Huawei.

    But no, they didn’t stop it in the 70s because they need China to counter the USSR.

    And yes, it’s no secret USA invested a lot in Vietnam to counter China after Vietnam and US normalized relationship.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  270. Anon[146] • Disclaimer says:

    Never Forget.

    Money For Nothing

  271. bayviking says:
    @Chris Moore

    Our way of life begins with a ruling class which has established one set of rules for themselves and this country and another set everyone else has to abide by. Just one example we can force a diplomatic jet down in a failed effort to capture Assange or Snowden, but Belarus cannot. According to the US MSM Assange and Snowden are international criminals for reporting the truth about the USA and Roman Protasevich is just a diligent journalist fulfilling his responsibilities as an honest reporter of facts.

    Whether some Jewish cartel is in charge of this criminal activity I have no idea. But, it seems everybody except Biden is Jewish or views Zionism favorably, which is pretty disgusting. The hatred of Assange and Snowden must originate in our national security apparatus (CIA, Homeland Security, NSA, Pentagon & State Department) and it is difficult to believe they are all Jewish or Zionist. Maybe though??? Where is another lunatic like McCarthy, if they are really needed, to purge these bastards out?

    Our way of life makes the poor countries poorer, if we seize their assets when they can’t pay their debts in dollars. If they can pay their debts, but refuse to play by our post war rules, we invade. We created an economic system to dominate the world with, backed by a military force to take out anybody without nuclear weapons. Except the Taliban, and ISIS, and the Viet Cong living on a cup of rice a day. Our military is incapable of beating the very poor who are determined to remain free. So Superimperialism does not work against people who have nothing.

    • Replies: @GomezAdddams
  272. bayviking says:

    In the first place waste in the insurance paperwork industry is double any alleged waste in the legal Industry. I do agree that completely incompetent doctors are a small fraction of all legal claims. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t a lot of perfectly legitimate claims caused by medical accidents by otherwise competent doctors. If you are paralyzed for life because a knife slipped should you be compensated or sent out on the sidewalk to fend for yourself? You are assuming ALL legal claims are illegitimate, which is nonsense. A trial attorney is highly unlikely to consider dragging a a marginal claim through our protracted legal process. Most claims are legitimate and should be paid.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  273. @Smith

    Sorry but that is folly. Some of them were simply ethnically patriotic. Others were expecting that the Mainland government would collapse once people got a taste of capitalism and the government in Taipei would waltz back on to the mainland and take it back over. It didn’t happen…

    And I honestly wonder if you are in Vietnam as you claim. Vietnam’s top investors are all in the same neighborhood – including China. Are you claiming the US can tell Singapore and China to invest into Vietnam??? Are you even Vietnamese??? In any event – it doesn’t matter how much money anyone throws at any country – that country has to seize the opportunity. It seems you have no self respect for your own people then.

    Lastly – what is happening to Huawei??? Their profit margin went up last year as they switched from low margin phone business into software and enterprise. Their 5G network world market share rose. So the US can’t kill Huawei – only cause it to redeploy resources. And as to the US turning off the money. Again you have no idea what you are talking about. The US is not the money going into China. Go look up the top countries by FDI.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @GomezAdddams
  274. @bayviking

    You have good points – but healthcare costs are simply horrible. They are gross. They are a noose on the neck of the rest of the economy.

    • Agree: bayviking
  275. Smith says:

    There is nothing folly about that, you are just in denial about the US allowing their vassals and themselves to invest in China in order to prop it up. It doesn’t have anything to do with “patriotism” or horsewash like that, US has done the same to Japan in past when they want to prop it up to counter Russia before WW1.

    Vietnam is the same post US-normalization, considering the IMF loans, and our biggest investors are the usual suspects (S. Korea, Japan, Taiwan, China). And yes, Singapore being a US/Brit colony can certainly be told to invest in Vietnam/China, hell to this day Singapore has an US base just like Japan.

    We can seize the opportunity, but it doesn’t deny the truth about the fact the US propped up countries to counter their rivals. The money from Taiwan, Singapore, S. Korea and Japan are all proxy money from the USA/Britain.

    And what’s going on with Huawei? It’s exactly what I said, USA not allowing them to continue on the phone business, which amounts to banning their products and sanctioning individual investors related to them, which forces them to invest in other business.

    If USA has wanted to China’s growth to stop, they would have contained it the same they’ve done to the USSR and Russia right now. But it didn’t, because it used China to beat the USSR.

  276. Smith says:

    I know I’m singing to the choir about US/Israel here, but apparently, it’s OK to send billions of dollars to Israel for them to “replenish” the Iron Dome, but it’s anathema to forgive debts for american students.

    Israel can handle that welfare taxpayer “socialist” money, not the students apparently.

    All of this “fiscal conservative”, “reasonable spending” is hogwash when these deals happen.

  277. @Smith

    If USA has wanted to China’s growth to stop, they would have contained it the same they’ve done to the USSR and Russia right now. But it didn’t, because it used China to beat the USSR.

    Only if US truly has the ‘Made In USA’ products now.

    Today, even the ‘Made In USA’ product will has the word like ‘Made In USA With Imported Material’.

    USA weapons are made in China.

  278. @Smith

    1) there is a huge difference between engaging another country to help achieve a common objective – and subjugating and propping up a nation. A huge difference.

    2) comparing Singapore giving the US basing rights to US military subjugation of Japan is nowhere remotely the same. Just this year Singapore and China did joint naval drills. Japan is not allowed to because it is subjugated by the US. Singapore is not subjugated.

    3) all the US can do is try to make life hard for Huawei – but it can’t crush it. Simply because China is not a US subject. Toshiba was completely emasculated by the US because Japan is a US vassal. Not the same.

    4) USSR collapsed on itself – the US didn’t “use” China. China knew exactly what it was doing. There was lack of trust between Beijing and Moscow at that time. But there was no way that China would fight on US behalf against the USSR – even though it did allow the US to monitor Soviet military from Xinjiang. Why? It benefitted China at the time too. Now the past 30 years China and Russia have been building their relationship because they know neither can trust the US.

    • Replies: @Smith
  279. Smith says:

    1) Nropping a country to counter your rival is not mutually exclusive “help achieve a common objective”, both the US and China fear the USSR, thus US propped China up, and China happily complied (and betrayed worldwide communist revolutionaries).

    2) It’s the same actually, Singapore even pays for US base the same way Japan does:
    And Singapore has always had naval drills with the US, now it has with China too. These naval drills are symbolic, but it’s the US who has base in Singapore, not China.

    3) Toshiba is still living actually, kinda like Huawei, US didn’t crush it either. Both share the similarities that they grow too strong and got stamped down by the US and are forced to take different paths.

    4) Yep, US used China. China spent millions to send weapons and training to Cambodia and Afgahnistan in order to fight the Soviet and Vietnam presence there, as the US commands. The fact it’s willing to betray its allies, just to jump at the feet of US for the access of the US market is sickening. And no, I don’t think Russia, US, China ever “trust” each other, there’s no “trust” in geopolitics.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  280. @The Soft Parade

    Despite the court’s DNA confirmation of Hunter being the child’s father, the son of US President Joe Biden did not appear to embrace his child in his new autobiography.

    “I’m not proud of it. It’s why I would later challenge in court the woman from Arkansas who had a baby in 2018 and claimed the child was mine — I had no recollection of our encounter,” he said, speaking of the case. “That’s how little connection I had with anyone. I was a mess, but a mess I’ve taken responsibility for.”

    Hunter Biden also believes in the 1% factor.

  281. @bayviking

    “United States of America is broke Gomez——-and one day someone will arrive here demanding our assets and 99% of us then will be locked up in the Debtors Prison” —-and Mr.Grimside does not fool easily..

  282. @showmethereal

    Huawei just released its Harmony June 2, 2021 and wow —it is multi purpose and does things Google Android can not perform——- Donald Trump — “We lied We stole We cheated” Mike Pompeo and that other Mike Pense and Amtrak Joe and horny Hunter Biden—your train is now sitting in the siding—

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @showmethereal
  283. @Thomasina

    Huawei Harmony came together in 2 years and now China can pull the pin on Google Android and it will indeed be California Dreaming—as in the Nightmare in Silicon Valley.

  284. @Mark G.

    “Despite the court’s DNA confirmation of Hunter being the child’s father, the son of US President Joe Biden did not appear to embrace his child in his new autobiography. ” Reason why USA will prosper when Hunter takes over in 2022–

  285. Smith says:

    Hey Gomez, I didn’t take you for a tech guy, can you tell me some new features of HarmonyOS 2.0?

    Seen some marketing videos but I don’t get some of the features.

    Heard it’s open source though, so it’s good for developers who want to create an independent OS.

  286. @GomezAdddams

    Indeed the smear campaign has started against Harmony OS. Claiming it is a Android clone – when the clowns don’t know the difference between the Google Android OS and the Open Source Android – which is the base for the Harmony OS. But as you noted – it does things Google Android doesn’t.
    Yeah it is forward looking and is for all devices in the Iot industry. They can’t kill Huawei. There is a reason they have the most effective networking equipment. Mobile phones was never the main business. Give it another 2 years though and if they don’t get back into top tier phones – I would indeed expect to see all Chinese vendors – who together have the most mobile sales – to make the switch. China now has the top appliance makers in the world – unbeknownst to many in the west – and Midea and others have already stated they will install the OS on all their smart appliances. So people in other parts of Asia and Africa and Latin America will have Huawei’s OS on some of their devices even if they don’t have a Huawei phone… That would make it a smooth transition.

    All that with the largest STEM workforce – that isn’t trampled down with loads of student debt. And they use internet networks that are a public good and not for monopoly control. Something I know Mr. Hudson is a fan of.

    • Replies: @Smith
    , @Mulga Mumblebrain
  287. @Smith

    1) China and USSR had physical skirmishes while the USSR was nuclear armed. So no – fear wasn’t it. Believe it or not – I blame Mao for the disillusionment that took place between the USSR and PRC. He was too staunch and turned against the Soviets for being “reactionary”. So – no it wasn’t fear. You are confused. In any event communism was bound to fail anyway even if the two never had a falling out. It doesn’t work. Both wisely gave it up. Russia did through collapse while China did through reforms.

    2) China would never want a base in Singapore. Why would that make any sense?

    3) Again – since US action Huawei pushed further into software and increased it’s profit margin. Toshiba is wobbling and has to sell of parts of it’s business even today. It has never recovered from what the US did to it.

    4) As the US commanded??? That’s a joke right? And betray what allies??? The USSR and PRC had severed their past relations over a decade before. As to whether China and Russia trust each other. They have to. Huawei is building networks in Russia and Russia is helping China build an early warning missile system. That requires a degree of trust. No such things have ever gone on that intimately between the US and China even when they were both anti Soviet Union. The US spies on all NATO countries and gets caught and shrugs it’s shoulders. Do Russia and China spy on each other? Of course… Part of the spying is to know how much they can/should trust each other. It’s the real world.

    • Replies: @Smith
  288. Smith says:

    The Capitalist roader reveals itself, let me educate you about history, not what they taught in chinese or singy history book.


    1) China feared the USSR so much that it ambushed the Russian troops during the island skirmish, got the beaten the hell out, and then distanced itself from the USSR henceforth. Started shit and cried victim. The “Cultural Revolution”? It’s an excuse for Mao to purge Soviet-friendly comrades inside the PRC, look at what happened to Peng Dehai as an ex-ample. And after that, Mao shook hands with Nixon and teamed up with the US to destroy the USSR and harm Vietnam/Cambodia/Afghanistan, even supporting Pinochet in Chile.
    And actually, you are confused about the fact “communism was bound to fail” considering its reasons for falling are entirely foreign:
    a) USSR being betrayed by China.
    b) China being counter-revolutionized by capitalist roaders like Deng Xiaoping.
    Meanwhile, in modern Russia, the second most popular party is the Communist Party of Russia led by Zyuganov, which is constantly suppressed by Putin.
    And in modern China, the CCP still wears the red coach in disguise because of how popular communism was.

    2) Huh, why do you think the Qing dynasty sent chinese to Singapore in the first place? To gain a foothold in the Strait of Malacca of course.

    3) Again, Huawei was pushed out of the phone market by the US, its growth has been slow down to a single digit, while its market is taken by Xiaomi worldwide, it has to invest into other business because US forced it to. And like Toshiba, it even sold part of itself (the budget Honor brand) to make end meet.

    4) No, that’s no joke. The US commanded the chinese to come to Cambodia and Afghani-stan to wreck havoc there, just so that the chinese laborers can slave away to sell stuff to the US. Imagine if China has stayed the course and maintained alliance with USSR and the rest of the communist world, it would have grown stabler and stronger than nowadays. But now, the trust is broken. And no, in the real world, Russia, US, China do not trust each other. Every systems they used/bought from each other are vetted and are for political purpose. Even in the threat of the US, China and Russia rule out a military alliance. And honestly, after what happened in the Cold War, who the hell can trust China?

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  289. Smith says:

    I have asked Gomez this, but he doesn’t answer (yet), can you tell me what things that HarmonyOS 2.0 does that Android doesn’t?

  290. If graduate education in the US was of the same type and quality as what was given to Europeans during the 20th century and still is in Northern Europe, making it free or nearly so would make sense as well as cancelling the student debt accrued buying it at exorbitant prices. What is bought as a graduate education in the US is a totally different product. Like with Freud’s psychoanalysis the exorbitant fee is a fundamental part of the initiation. 20th century style European education was geared to the trades necessary for a productive economy to work so as among others to rebuild many war-ravaged parts of the economy, and in prevision of a future world based on production, invention and construction. America’s economy, except during an anomaly that started with FDR and ended when Nixon resigned, was always based on predation, not production, on civilisation destruction, not construction. You cannot exchange the goods of one for those of the other. If you want to be educated for a productive economy even if it is a productive part of the economy within the US, you won’t get such an education in the US, the best and cheapest thing for you is to get it in another country and then only try your luck together with the green card carrying immigrants from that country. If you want to engage in technological development or scientific research don’t do that in the US, you will get cancelled by both woke leftists who are emulating the Red Khmers from closer and closer and conservatives who are even worse as their identity of reference is Calvinistic anti-intellectualism. When you get an education in the US it is for the art of exploiting your fellow human being and trying your best to leave a worse planet to the humanity to come. It should actually be called an initiation, not an education. An initiation is of any value only through the sacrifices you consent to undergo to succeed.

    I would agree with student debt cancellation on one condition only, that you renounce to your degree, and that the institution having giving it to you be terminated by government degree past a certain percentage of degrees (I would say 10%) renounced for debt cancellation for financial fraud. Most so-called Ivy league institutions should be locked down for good like Trump universities once were. More generally institutions caught teaching fake facts like the non-existence of human races or the theory of Black Egypt should be closed down after three blatant fake facts (as determined by large multinational consensus) taught as science necessary to know to pass exams. Three strikes and you’re out. Three fake facts taught by a faculty and the faculty must be demolished for good and its degrees cancelled with the capital being reimbursed to the former tuition-payers. Three such faculties in any institution and the whole institution must be terminated. Actually the only institution that should be left standing should be the military academies.

    America is an oligarchical republic and was clearly founded as such by the founding fathers who clearly designed their bills of rights for land-owning and slave-employing gentlemen only as well as for entrepreneurs in various forms of piracy. It should revert once for all to that state and abolish citizens’ rights for about 97% of the population. The whole of that society should be structured along the lines of the Indian Caste Society, with the Jews and those who have a Jewish soul (which translates into occult powers of the kind acknowledged by Free Masonry) being the Brahmins. The Higher Military class should be likewise composed of members of the Cincinnati order, that is to say French noblemen of the Templar Order.

  291. @Smith

    Good point. They don’t actually need to take out loans to pay for an undergraduate degree, whether two-year or four-year, if they take a few big but simple measures:

    — pick a school they can afford without debt, which for most people means in-state tuition at the state college where they live …. Don’t pick a private university or out-of-state government university that charges much higher tuition.

    — live with family for the first 1-2 years if at all possible, rather than borrowing to pay for an apartment or doom room

    — if necessary to lower the cost further, do the first two years at community college, then transfer to a four-year college

    If a young person does these things and works full-time during the summer and part-time during the school year, they won’t “need” debt to get that BA or BS. So surely they shouldn’t have the rest of us pay off the debts that they incurred by failing or refusing to make those choices and sacrifices.

    (By the way, as a young man I did NOT follow this sage advice either. But I spent many years paying back the loans I stupidly and unnecessarily took out, not expecting wiser people to bail me out. Current borrowers can and should do the same. (We could, however, offer them zero-interest refinancing of all education and medical debts, from a national or state public bank.)

    Now, medical care is another story. THAT is often unreasonably priced and not readily affordable even for people who make good choices on balance and work hard. I’d rather have the taxpayers help US Citizens get good medical and dental care than payoff college debts that were optional — self-inflicted and eminently avoidable. And I’d still rather do either of those “giveaways” than blow the trillions on aggressive wars and occupations instead.

  292. @Rosie

    Many kids today have already paid the money back and then some, but interest and fees have added up to the point where they now owe more than they originally borrowed.

    It seems glaringly obvious to me that an equitable & even politically feasible approach would be to eliminate or reduce or cap interest and fees, across the board: i.e. all interest reduced to maximum 1.5%. No fees allowed. No tricks or funny business.

    Schumer’s $50,000 give-away = buying votes.
    Manchin is the boy with his finger in the hole in the dike: hope he can hold out.

  293. @showmethereal

    As one Huawei top dog, perhaps the Boss, said, even if the USA destroyed Huawei, the tens of thousands of Huawei experts would found another hundred Huaweis. The genocidal psychopaths who rule Thanatopia (like cane toad, self-confessed liar, Pompeo)know that, and know that they have lost the race, so intend destroying China and killing as many Chinese as possible. Nothing else can guarantee White, Western, Judeo-Christian ‘Full Spectrum Dominance’-forever.

  294. @Smith

    Ahhh yes… I forgot you tend to rely on made up history and hearsay and conjecture when it comes to China.

    • Replies: @Smith
  295. Smith says:

    On the contrary, I’d suggest you spend more times reading history:

    Both sides have since blamed the other for the start of the conflict. However, a scholarly consensus has emerged that the border crisis had been a premeditated act of aggression orchestrated by the Chinese side. The American scholar Lyle J. Goldstein noted that Russian documents released since the glasnost era paint an unflattering picture of the Red Army command in the Far East with senior generals surprised by the outbreak of the fighting and of Red Army units haphazardly committed to action in a piecemeal style, but all of the documents speak of the Chinese as the aggressors.[22] Even most Chinese historians now agree that on 2 March 1969, Chinese forces planned and executed an ambush, which took the Soviets completely by surprise.[16] The reasons for the Chinese leadership to opt for such an offensive measure against the Soviets remains a disputed question.[23]

    What happened to Peng Dehuai during the Cultural Revolution because he was pro-USSR and not Mao:And this guy was the hero of the Korean war on the chinese side.

    All other stuff are the continuation of the Sino-Soviet split, or will you also deny the part when Mao shook hands with Nixon and the training of terrorists in Afghanistan (which was how China got so cozy with Pakistan in the first place)?

    Chinese are terrible at history, just like the americans and the japanese.

  296. @Supply and Demand

    You have that reversed. You, obviously, are a midwit.

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