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SHARMINI PERIES, EXEC. PRODUCER, TRNN: Welcome to the Michael Hudson Report on The Real News Network. I’m Sharmini Peries coming to you from Baltimore.

The Euro is slipping against the dollar, and the European financial markets are in flux, expecting Greece to fail on its 1.6 billion Euro repayment due to the International Monetary Fund on the 5th of June. Joining me now to discuss Greece and the financial [wars] it’s posing to the European markets is Michael Hudson. Michael is joining us from New York, and as you know he’s a distinguished research professor of economics at the University of Missouri, Kansas City. His two newest books are The Bubble and Beyond, and Finance Capitalism and its Discontent. His upcoming book is titled Killing the Host: How Financial Parasites and Debt Bondage Destroyed the Global Economy.

Michael, as always, thank you for joining us today.

MICHAEL HUDSON, PROF. OF ECONOMICS, UNIV. OF MISSOURI-KC: Good to be here.

PERIES: So Michael, what is the response of the European financial markets to Greece?

HUDSON: The financial markets have the same response that they had over five years ago. All of the problems today came up in 2010 when it was obvious that even at that time Greece could not pay its debts. The International Monetary Fund had its economists make a series of projections to analyze its ability to pay. What happened a few years earlier was that a Wall Street bank, Goldman Sachs, helped the Greek Central Bank conceal the amount of debt that it owed. When Pasok, the ostensibly socialist party, came to power, Papandreou revealed how much money Greece actually owed to its bondholders. And the IMF said wait a minute, the bondholders have lent much too much money for Greece. We’ve got to write down its debts to the ability to pay. There’s no way that Greece can pay the debts without imposing an economic collapse and making it even harder to pay the debts.

So there was a big series of meetings, one in 2010 and then a Group of Eight meeting in 2012. Basically, the European Central Bank and the European Union told the IMF that there’s nothing in the laws that they had written up in Europe to write down debts owed to the Central Bank. They said, in effect: “If you, the IMF, want to be a part of all of this debt restructuring, we want to pay off all the private bond holders so that they don’t lose money. We want to let the speculators gain because that’s our constituency.” But the IMF economists pressured the head of the IMF at that time, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, to write down Greece’s debt.

The problem is that Strauss-Kahn wanted the IMF to be a player in the European Central Bank and the European Union, the main financial interests. He also wanted to run for the presidency of France, and most of Greece’s debts were owed to French banks. So Strauss-Kahn had to essentially operate in the interest of France, and his own political fortunes rather than what IMF economists recommended. Basically, he agreed to have the Central Bank and IMF lend Greece enough money to pay the bondholders.

It turned out that the IMF economists were quite right, and Greece couldn’t pay. The result is that the leading economists in the IMF’s European division resigned in anger. They’ve written a series of reports. They talked to reporters and said look, the IMF is thoroughly corrupt. It’s captured by the bondholders. Its ability-to-pay models are junk economics. That left basically the only people remaining in the IMF as bank lobbyists. The IMF leadership saw the Greek crisis and the other European debt crises as finally a chance to get the IMF back as a world player. So basically they made a huge refinancing of Greek debt in 2012.

The terms were highly creditor-oriented. Instead of Greeks owing money in their own currency, they would owe it in a currency they couldn’t create, the Euro, and they’d owe this money not to private bondholders, to whom it’s easy to write down debts because private bond holders are willing to renegotiate as already we saw them do in Argentina. But you can’t renegotiate with the European Central Bank.

So now we can fast-forward to earlier this year when Syriza came to power in Greece. The European Central Bank said, we central banks may be independent from government, but we’re not independent from the financial interests. We’re not independent from Wall Street. As a matter of fact, Tim Geithner and Obama, in 2012, went to the G8 meeting and said Europe, you have to bail out the Greek private bond holders, because the American banks have made huge guarantees on credit default swaps, and we’ll go broke if we have to pay and made the wrong bet. So you have to save Wall Street and screw Greece. Naturally, Greece got screwed. Well, at the autumn 2012 meetings the IMF people spilled the beans about how Greece has been left in debt.

When the elections happened this January and February, the Central Bank came right out and said to the Greek people, don’t vote for Syriza. If you vote for a party that is opposing writing down the pensions, if you elect a party that’s supporting the working class, if you vote for a real socialist party that wants to stop the sell-offs, then we’re going to treat you with sanctions very much like what America treated Cuba or America treated Iraq.

ORDER IT NOW

What we’ve seen erupting in Europe in the last three months is the old class war. But it’s not really the old class war. It’s the war of finance against not only the Greek pensioners, not only the Greek economy, but Greek industry, Greek exporters and Greek banks. There’s a war to treat Greece as an object lesson, because the financial interests of Europe worry that if the Syriza party is able to write down the debts to save the economy from depression, then Podemos in Spain and the Portuguese popular parties are going to write down their debts. We’ve got to make an object lesson of Greece. We’ve got to absolutely crush socialism in the cradle so that it won’t grow into a European-wide movement to avoid depression.

When Syriza came to power, the belief by the negotiators, Yanis Varoufakis and his colleagues, was that well, we can be reasonable with Europe. We can say, “Look, there’s no money to pay. We can’t cut back pensions more, because they’ve already been cut back, and we’d be voted out of power just like the old party. We’re not willing to privatize the Greek economy and sell it off to foreigners just because bondholders made a bad bet and the European government has made a bad bet.”

But the European Central Bank is saying, “You have to cut your wages even lower. You have to make even more unemployment–30 percent unemployment isn’t enough, 50 percent unemployment in new graduates isn’t enough. You only have ten percent of your population emigrating. You have to have more of your population emigrate.”

Naturally, Varoufakis and the Syriza party say that this is crazy. It’s junk economics. “We’re not going to commit suicide, and no national government has to commit financial and economic suicide simply to pay bondholders.” That’s what it means to be a sovereign government. But then the Europeans say, “Ah, but you’re not a sovereign government. Because a sovereign government, according to the textbooks, has the right to print its own money. But you don’t have the right to print your own money. Only we, the Central Bank, have the right to print money, and we’re not going to do it. We’re not going to print the money to help your economy because we don’t like your political party. You didn’t vote for the right party.”

That’s basically what Angela Merkel told them five years ago, that’s what other European representatives of the financial interests have told them. So essentially the Greeks are told either you vote in a right-wing party or we’re going to make you wish that you did.

That’s the politics, now. Everyone’s trying to figure out, what on earth can the Greeks do? Either there’s total surrender, which is being demanded by the EuropeanCentral Bank of Syriza; or, Greece says it won’t pay. And if it doesn’t pay, then it really doesn’t have a problem anymore.

The arguments that are being used are exactly the same that were used 90 years ago in the German reparations debate. The Greek government is told to pay the bond holders, meaning the European Central Bank and the IMF, essentially by increasing taxes. But if you increase taxes, you shrink the market. There will be even more unemployment and even more emigration. And the Greeks – and any economist who’s studied economic history – knows that this is suicide.

So we’re in a condition where the European Central Banks are basically making a demand that no country could meet. They are trying to force a crisis, and nobody can see any way out of it.

PERIES: Now Michael, it appears that if rumor is correct, the murmurs coming out of Europe is that there will be no resolve by Thursday, which was a deadline to come to some agreement, as June 5th is the deadline for the first repayment to the IMF.

Now, if Greece doesn’t come to an agreement in terms of its repayment it will obviously be in default. What options does Greece have?

HUDSON: Well, this is not just a rumor. Varoufakis has written in the last few days that there is no way that Greece is going to stop paying pensions, and there is no way that Greece is going to privatize the economy. He said, we’re willing to make all sorts of compromises. The usual, it’s called extend and pretend, you lend us the money and we’ll pay you. You pretend to lend us the money, that it’s a good debt, we’ll pretend to pay. But there’s no way that they’re going to commit suicide. And the Central Bank is saying, “Yes, you have to commit suicide or else have the anarchy of withdrawing from the Euro. What are you going to do?”

So they’re trying to figure that out. “We’re not going to be able to pay, so what is the point of trying to pay a debt that can’t be paid? If there’s no money there we can’t pay, so there’s no way that we can meet their conditions.”

There’s obviously going to be a break. Greece is going to use its money to continue to pay pensions. It’s not going to privatize more of the public domain, it’s not going to sell off its mineral holdings and its gas rights in the Aegean.

Apparently President Obama, who originally had told Europe, wait a minute, you’ve got to stop Greece from withdrawing because otherwise it’ll have to make a deal with Russia for gas. It’s going to be anarchy. And that’s the intended result by Europe. I know the Greek negotiators. I’ve spoken to them. I could not do anywhere near as good a job as they’re doing. I’m in full agreement with everything they’re doing. They’re being reasonable. But they’re up against a wall – the intention to have economic warfare and force Greece to continue the privatization program and to continue the war against labor.

There’s no way of knowing what’s going to come out. Some kind of script currency, some kind of artificial currency maybe used as an interim. But that’s only an interim transition.

ORDER IT NOW

PERIES: Michael, why is it beneficial for the European banks and European financial might to allow Greece to default in this way? After all, this might also be another example for the other countries, you mentioned, to default as well, and leave the Euro and establish their own currencies. And at the end of the day, beneficial for them to do that.

HUDSON: Well, you’re right in pointing out that the issue really isn’t Greece itself. Greece’s debt is only about 2 percent of the overall European debt. So in itself, it’s not in the interest to create a break. And if economic rationality were all that there was, of course the Central Bank and IMF would write down the debt. The IMF says, “We’re not going to lend Greece any money, we’re going to stop the pretense, unless the European Central Bank writes down the debt.” And the European Central Bank says, “We’re not going to.”

But the point is precisely what you just raised. Italy, Podemos, Portugal, and other countries. They want to make an example, saying if any of you countries have the idea that you’re going to put your own workers, your own economy first before the creditors, then we’re going to treat you like we’re treating Greece. We’re going to make Greece an object lesson, just as America made Iraq and Iran an object lesson and made Cuba an object lesson. They think that somehow they can demonstrate that Greece is going to suffer. But Greece has pretty smart leaders, and the object lesson may backfire.

That’s what class war is. The oppressed group always is in a weaker position, but very often it’s able to recover. That’s what’s at issue right now, who’s going to win: The left wing, or the right wing?

PERIES: Michael Hudson, we’ll be watching this as I am sure you will be, too. And I hope you come back and give us an update really soon.

HUDSON: Thank you. Very good to be here.

PERIES: And thank you for joining us on The Real News Network.

(Republished from Michael-Hudson.com by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Economics • Tags: Debt, Eurozone, Greece 
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  1. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website

    Dear Greek idiots:

    Don’t like being in debt? Then stop borrowing money.

    When in a hole, stop digging.

  2. The Greeks know that the masters of the Eurozone will do anything rather than let Greece out on its own. This knowledge is, shall we say, enabling.

  3. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    The Greek People didn’t give their consent to a an agreement that is pure unadulturated usury for an indefinite amount of time. To refer to the Greek People as parasites is on the same level as someone calling an escaped slave lazy for running away from his Master.

    Your post is one more example of Libertarian sociopathy….

    • Replies: @Wally
  4. Freman says:

    I can’t believe it: an article justifying Podemos and the neocommunist European wave! This is worse than Gustavo Arellano’s rantings in this website.

  5. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Did the Greeks take and then spend the money or not?

    They could have simply said no.

    It’s all too obvious the Greeks cannot carry their own weight and expect others to pay for their unsustainable ways.

    Marxism writ large.

  6. Renoman says:

    Iceland Baby!
    The World needs a lot more Iceland’s, hang the bankers and the 1% and the World will live again.
    Come on Greece, do it!

  7. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:
    @Wally

    The Greek People had 0 input into the terms of the loan agreement. Just tell us all, how many Greek Civilians that you, and the German Bankers, intend to murder with banker austerity?.

    The Greek People should make an open declaration of war against Germany with the help of Conservative Orthodox Christian Russia and Serbia….hopefully with a scortched-earth policy….and then drop some napalm on the fat cockroach Glenn Beck(another greedy German)….

    • Replies: @Wally
    , @Karl
  8. pyrrhus says:
    @Wally

    When a debt can’t be paid, it won’t….and the lenders knew that Greece would not be able to pay, so they are just juice loan thugs. BTW, Greece’s per capita debt and obligations are much lower than the USA’s…..

    • Replies: @Wally
  9. robother says:

    From the viewpoint of Goldman/JPMorgan/et al, enabling Greece and other unsustainable economic polities to borrow vast sums was the whole point of getting them on the Euro. (For the same reason in the US, they pushed the Zero down, NINA home mortgages.) They earn their commissions on volume of borrowing and even higher profit margins pricing exotic derivatives tied to borrowing.
    But prime borrowers like Germany don’t borrow much, and once the creditworthy US borrowers all own homes, there’s not much volume; banking starts to turn into a low margin commodity. On the other hand, desperate cases don’t negotiate rates or commissions very hard, and they are always needing more debt or rejiggering of existing debt right up to the point of bankruptcy.
    Yes, it takes two to tango, the electorate of Greece (like Detroit) bears responsibility for the basic unsustainability of their fiscal model. But we should recognize how the rise of the soveriegn-guaranteed predatory lenders has enabled unprecedented bondage of simple-minded folk.

  10. Why can’t Greece use the experience of the State of Ukraine?
    Ukrainian prime-minister Yatseniuk just invented a new notion in the world of finances:
    “Недобросовестный кредитор”, which translates as “unscrupulous or unfair creditor”.
    That notion allows him to announce that the State will not pay to some creditors of their choice.
    The rest of creditors are happy with default, bankruptcy, and are discussing the “division of assets”. In particular, Franklin-Templeton hopes to get Ukrainian “black soil lands”.

  11. Alfa158 says:

    It does seem insane to keep lending money to someone so they can make payments on previous loans that they couldn’t pay off in the first place, but can the Greeks in fact make those pension disbursements without loans? Isn’t that pretty much how they dug this hole to start with?
    What a disaster, but what can the Eurozone really do at this point? It’s like the old saying, owe your bank a thousand dollars and they own you. Owe them a million dollars and you own them.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  12. joe webb says:

    well, what we got in this article is a left-wing socialist or possibly communist opinion, or close to a rant.

    Now let us have a centrist article and a right-wing argument as well.

    I see we have a number of left crazies on this site. They have no argument but they do know crazy.

    Joe Webb

  13. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:
    @robother

    Millions of Greeks had 0 input into the terms of the agreement with dirty Kraut bankers. Scandinavia with a generous social welfare system doing quite well in relative comparison.

    Who wants to pull the life support system for the Greek people?…Subhuman cockroaches such as Glenn Beck. This all about greedy cheating German Bankers wanting to steal Greece’s infrastructure for themselves and the psychopathic Clinton foundation donors.

    The Krauts should think very carefully about waging a war of extermination against the Greek People…

  14. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @War for Blair Mountain

    “The Greek People had n0 input into the terms of the loan agreement. Just tell us all, how many Greek Civilians that you, and the German Bankers, intend to murder with banker austerity?.”

    Oh please, don’t make me laugh. No tears for the Greek false victims

    The terms were not hidden.

    There were no secret handshakes.

    The Greeks did vote for those who negotiated.

    The Greeks did spend the money which they knew was borrowed.

    And frankly, their refusal to carry their own weight means they are killing themselves. They only have themselves to blame.

    And obviously, they have become lazy, parasitical.

    Such is Marxism, the most failed system of governance ever contrived.

  15. Wally [AKA "BobbyBeGood"] says: • Website
    @pyrrhus

    The debt could be paid if the Greeks cut their unsustainable Marxist spending.

    The Greeks have lived at the expense of others for too long. Pay up or walk.

    But then, Marxists, and that is what they surely are, are not known for belief in reality.

    Your statement about per capita debt is not even comparable and you know it. But having said that, the USA should indeed stop it’s indebted spending as well. No strawmen, please.

    The Greek unproductive types should exit the EU and swim in their own inflation. That is the solution, that is what they deserve.

  16. Karl says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    >> Just tell us all, how many Greek Civilians that you, and the German Bankers, intend to murder with banker austerity?

    As many as is necessary.

  17. Obscure etymology: Austerity is Greek for “Work for a Living”

  18. Technomad says:

    As far as I am concerned, borrowing money that you do not pay back is no different from stealing it. And the Greeks elected the governments that borrowed the money.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  19. MRW says:

    Greece is in the exact same position that the American colonies were in in 1765-1775.

  20. MarkinLA says:
    @Alfa158

    It does seem insane to keep lending money to someone so they can make payments on previous loans that they couldn’t pay off in the first place, but can the Greeks in fact make those pension disbursements without loans? Isn’t that pretty much how they dug this hole to start with?

    Ever been a senior bond holder in a Chapter 11 filing only to watch some idiot judge allow the restructuring plan that puts the new bank lenders in the senior position and you further down the list until your senior secured debt is worthless? I imagine this is the same thinking, as long as there is still some meat on the bones, somebody will lend them money.

    I imagine they make the pension disbursement the same way the US government could easily pay for Social Security without missing a beat. It isn’t like nothing is coming in. The problem is deciding to pay the military, welfare and the interest on the debt with what is left over.

  21. MarkinLA says:
    @Technomad

    Tell that to many of Wall Street’s LBO heros like Donald Trump or Mitt Romney. Constantly restructuring their bonds in bankruptcy court is part of their business plan.

  22. joe webb says:

    The national IQ of Greece is 92. Turkey’s is 90. How long was the Turkish occupation? The Balkans generally are down in the low 90s, just as southern Italy is about 95.

    Someone on the race realist beat estimated that ancient Greece’s average IQ was probably 115 to have accomplished what it did.

    Of course, Democracy was for the few and now it is for everybody, especially the useless.

    I am not a Nietzschean mostly because too many screwballs call themselves N. but…the essence of N. is that Pity is a waste of time. It helps nobody, and is a twisted Do-Gooder species of holier than thouism and is usually experienced by the recipients as an insult.

    I recall a program on US poverty a while back which included a skid-row black who said, Why did God put me here anyway? Good question. There…. is a dignified statement of insight into his own character. He does not want pity.

    Our homeless populations are costing us huge amounts of taxpayer dollars for their hospital trips, their jail-time, their petty crime. Each one is probably costing about 100,000 bucks a year in “services.”

    cheaper to let them die off from self-inflicted dirty drug needles or just clean needles with lots of free heroin, or whatever their specialty is. No programs. Should last about 6 months and thrifty cremations are under $500.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @MRW
  23. joe webb says:

    and do not overlook this juvenile delinquent’s raised social finger to the Germans a few weeks ago….

    Fw: NYTimes.com: A Finance Minister Fit for a Greek Tragedy? ( Che Guevara tragic?)
    People
    joe webb Today at 10:37 AM

    Varoufakis, married to a rich girl, riding his motorcycle into Berlin, and telling the Germans what’s what. HIs dad was a communist.

    He said here: “…what we have here is a serious case of deeply rooted racism that all Greeks are the same….” So Varou the Red protests that the EU requirement that Greece maintain a 4-5 percent surplus in its budget is the most outrageous crime against Greece imaginable.

    Do you try to keep your spending under control so that you run a bit of a surplus? If not, you are probably a bit dim.

    Europe is trending rightward rapidly, and Greece will make its stand that The People have a right to retire at 55, get Germans to pay for it, not pay their taxes, and la dolce vita all day long. When he strips down, Yanis displays his muscles thru his Che Guevara tee-shirt.

    ‘Racism’?….well, yes. The Greeks are almost as dumb at the Turks with whom they have been miscegenating for centuries . Turkey IQ is 90, and Greece IQ is 92. Someone estimated ancient Greece’s IQ at 115 average …to account for its astonishing accomplishments.

    Don Quixote and Che Guevara are pure romance, and communism with its dragon’s teeth today are only farces. Unfortunately they cannot end happily. Tragedy? only to jewyorktimes which also is headed for the auction block.

    The tragedy of the Left…well as uncle Karl said in another context, the first time as tragedy and the second time as farce, and the third time, and the fourth…

    The only tenuous claim to tragedy, following the model of a tragic-flaw of an otherwise admirable individual, brought down by his own errors, is that the “human condition” was imagined by otherwise superior individuals like Tolstoy to be Democratic. Not true, but a noble impulse to be sure. However, merely projection of one’s own nobility onto , in effect, nobodies who will bleed you dry. That is democracy. Vote for me, and I will vote for you. etc. Free money, la dolce vita as the North pays for Southern stupidity and indolence and cupidity.

    Joe Webb

    • Replies: @MRW
  24. MRW says:
    @joe webb

    Our homeless populations are costing us huge amounts of taxpayer dollars for their hospital trips, their jail-time, their petty crime. Each one is probably costing about 100,000 bucks a year in “services.”

    Only if the “services’ are state-paid, not federally paid. Your federal taxes don’t pay for this at all, if you understand the federal monetary system as it really works.

    It is costing the nation $37,000+ for each student out of work after graduation, however.

  25. MRW says:
    @joe webb

    Need to educate yourself, Joe. Start with the US Daily Treasury Statement, the US checkbook. Because you understand zip.

  26. ccr says:

    The obvious answer is for all Greek pensioners to kill themselves and their dependents.

  27. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    The obvious answer is for the Slavic People to invade Germany and gang rape 20 million German Women in front of their hog-tied husbands as punishment for Germany waging a scorched earth policy against the Greek people who did not consent to usury-debt slavery.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  28. The real criminals are the zionist banking cartel leaders..

    The only real option is for Greece to pull out of the EU, default on their debts, and reset their economy using a gold or silver-standard currency. This will really shake up the international banking cartel.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  29. The author keeps telling us how Greece is being abused to pay bondholders. Alas, the author and the truth have a “troubled” relationship. From Wikipedia (Greek government-debt crisis) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_government-debt_crisis)

    “A year later, a worsened recession along with a delayed implementation by the Greek government of the agreed conditions in the bailout programme revealed the need for Greece to receive a second bailout worth €130 billion (now also including a bank recapitalization package worth €48bn), while all private creditors holding Greek government bonds were required at the same time to sign a deal accepting extended maturities, lower interest rates, and a 53.5% face value loss.”

    The deeper point is that even if Greece’s debt was reduced to zero, Greece would still be in a depression. Why? Because Greece has a vast trade deficit (at full employment) that it can’t pay for. Greece has only been able to attain full employment in the past by selling debt to pay for imports. That game is up.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
    , @Kyle McKenna
  30. MarkinLA says:
    @The_Worst_Nazi_Is_an_Ashkenazi

    reset their economy using a gold or silver-standard currency

    I doubt any such thing can occur. They would actually have to exchange gold or silver for drachmas.
    I doubt they would have any significant reserves. They need to leave the EU and they need to tighten up pensions but a gold standard is not likely.

  31. MarkinLA says:
    @Peter Schaeffer

    Greece sounds a lot like Donald Trump.

  32. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    But the German Bankers will most definitely get a nice pension plan..which will include stealing the economic…industrial…and agricultural resources of the Greek People….and lots of Greek Slaves including attractive young Greek Women.

    All German Bankers should be gassed!!!!!…

  33. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Question to mods: Is there any rationale behind allowing this jerk to post his genocidal ravings here? Or does he get a pass because it is only Germans who are targeted?

  34. sk says:

    What is this bullshit, “scorched, slavic orthodox, Serbia” ?

    The Greeks lied to everybody in order to get in EU, to obtain loans at 2% (if they stayed with the drahma they should pay 9% interest). With these stolen money they build olympic facilities and 6 lanes roads which nobody is using.

    The Greeks are not the angels here.

  35. @Peter Schaeffer

    “It is the aim of good government to stimulate production, of bad government to encourage consumption.” –Jean-Baptiste Say

    Germany is always on the good side of this equation, and Greece always on the bad. The USA, increasingly, also on the bad side. Socialism always works until you run out of OPM.

    • Replies: @skep
  36. @Wally

    Hey, man, I’m a Yank, and I’m against borrow, borrow, borrow, spend, spend, spend as much as anyone is. But how much input do you think I really had when the federal government made the decision(s) to go fifteen or twenty trillion dollars in debt? I doubt the average Greek had any more leverage than I did.

    • Replies: @skep
  37. skep says:
    @The Plutonium Kid

    quite agree. The greek society is well known to be an oligarchical society. The bulk of the loans was diverted by the oligarchs, with agreement of the big banks and germany, and… NATO; remind you of the fact that the small Greece has the third army of Europe, and good buyer of US, German, French… military complex ; cui bono?
    One of the main struggle of on going governement is to make pay the taxfrauders- who put a consistent part of the diverted money from the loans in… german banks among alii- that are the 1 %, not the 99. More over, stop quoting Wikipedia, that is very biased on such topics.

    You should have a look at the genuine – not official-rigged- inflation rate in Greece after 2002; you would have a bad surprise.
    Last questions: who rigged the datas to have the Greece enter the eurozone? Goldman-sachs banksters? Who’s Papademos? Everybody knew in Brussels that greek economy was unable to enter the Eurozone, but the ideology of Euro was prevalent. The greek population has no responsability in this.

    Last thing: according to A Karlin, greek workers work over 2500hours a year, vs 1400 for germans.

  38. skep says:

    an other view:
    http://russeurope.hypotheses.org/3939

    Last point: I don’t PCR is neither a socialist , communist or marxist. Read his texts about Greece

  39. skep says:
    @Kyle McKenna

    Everything is a question of currency; Euro created the disbalance of budgets.
    What about England? 600 billions import & 450 export… and a free currency?
    If everybody produces without consuming, there will be a slight issue, d’on’t you think so?
    The question is not producing/consuming, but import/export!

    Germany works on a declining laborforce, i.e. weak fecondity rate (1.3) since the 70’s, industry highly dependant on hinterland subcontractance (Poland, Slovakia, Tchekia,…), countries under german economical control with 1.2 fecondity rate since 1991, with 400 € monthly wages for skilled labor; in comparison, the poverty threshold is at 2000 € for 4 persons family. But, look, that’s free trade, no biased concurrency!

    • Replies: @skep
  40. skep says:
    @skep

    edit:
    “in comparison, the poverty threshold is at 2000 € for 4 persons family” in Germany.

  41. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:
    @Anonymous

    Question for the Krauts:You threaten a Slavic People with genocide via banker imposed austerity….you instigated hairy violent bulldyke Hillary’s Balkan War in 1996-1998 against another tribe of Slavic People….you have not a moral leg to support yourself…so…you know:FUCK OFF!!! ,ok not a question….reading the Krauts the Riot Act….

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  42. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Did the nurse again let you use the computer unsupervised?

    And now another shocking revelation: Germans stole your meds.

  43. Germans are smart, work hard, and make high-quality products that people in other nations want to buy. EOS.

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