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Huawei, Tik-Tok and WeChat
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First, let’s dispel the combined notion that China spies on everyone and the US spies on no one. There is so much public evidence to destroy both these assertions that I won’t bother repeating them here. I will however remind readers that a few years ago China more or less banned Windows 8 from the country because it was discovered that the O/S had a built-in NSA back door.[1] It seems that Germany reported on this first, but the devastating proof was at an IT conference where a Microsoft executive was interrupted during a speech with precisely this accusation.[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] He did not deny it because the person making the accusation was the person who discovered it and had with him the proof, but refused to discuss it and changed the subject.

But this is hardly news. Forty years ago it was proven that all Xerox copy machines delivered to foreign embassies and consulates in the US were “espionage-ready”.[10][11] Also, for at least 20 years, and perhaps much more, it was common knowledge that when any foreign embassies, consulates, banks and other corporations ordered computers and similar hardware from US suppliers, those shipments were intercepted by UPS, delivered to the CIA and/or NSA for installation of “extra” hardware and software before delivery to their destinations. This was one of the confirmations by Edward Snowden.[12][13][14][15] Any search on this will give you millions of hits unless Google chooses that moment to lose its memory.


Trump’s problems with Huawei are twofold. The most obvious is that China is eating America’s lunch when it comes to innovation and invention and Trump would like to slow this down by destroying Huawei and is clearly making every possible effort in this regard, including bullying and threatening half the known world against using Huawei’s products. But this is the small part of the problem; the real issue is espionage. There is no practical value in disputing the assertion that Cisco and other American hardware and software firms install back doors to all their equipment for the convenience of CIA and NSA access. But suddenly Huawei is replacing Cisco and those other American firms with its better and less expensive equipment.

That part is okay, but how can the CIA and NSA approach Huawei and ask the company to build back doors into its equipment so the US can spy on China – among all other countries? There is no solution to this problem other than to trash Huawei’s reputation by accusing it of being an espionage threat and having the company’s equipment banned. And this applies not only to the US, but to the entire Five Eyes Espionage Network, involving the US, Canada, the UK, Australia and New Zealand.[16] Briefly, this was set up to break laws while pretending no laws were being broken. It is generally against the law for a government to spy on its own citizens, but that law doesn’t apply to a foreign government. So Canada spies on Australian citizens and sends the information to the Australian spooks who can claim they did nothing wrong. Rinse and repeat. The sad part is that the “intelligence” received is usually of little interest to the four minor participants but all of it is shared with the US who are frothing to spy on the entire world and to take possession of “every communication” of every kind in the entire world. Thus, it isn’t sufficient to ban Huawei only from the US because this company’s equipment would castrate the NSA’s effort in the other four nations. Thus, US bullying to ensure each of its five eyes is Huawei-free. And that’s the entire story, like it or not.


Tik-Tok is nothing of consequence, except that it is in direct competition with similar American platforms and has proven too popular and too competitive to be permitted to survive. This is just a cheap, below-the-belt and illegal-as-hell shot at China. No threat, no nothing. However, as with all similar IT products and platforms it contains much personal information especially useful for marketing, which has so far been the private property of people like Google, Facebook and Twitter. Thus, Trump kills two birds with one stone: either simply kill Tik-Tok on some trumped-up accusation (if you’ll excuse the expression) of espionage, or force a sale to an American company. Either way, China loses massively while the political oppression and marketing value of that personal information remains safely in trusted American hands.


Since few Americans are familiar with WeChat, let me give you a description. Many of these functions are available in the West through various platforms, but not always to the same extent nor with the same convenience.

With WeChat we can transmit text and voice messages, photos and videos, and other files of any description even of many Mb in size. We can send and receive both text and voice messages in any language because WeChat has an excellent translation function in combination with one of its partners which translates not only text and voice, but will extract and translate all text contained in photos, handy for restaurant menus if you can’t read Chinese. We can place not only voice calls but video calls to anyone anywhere that transmit over the internet. It is so convenient that WeChat is the default communication choice for a great many people for most purposes. WeChat also has a Moments platform where we can post text, photos, videos, that are visible to those on our contact lists while selecting those who can view and who cannot, reserving some posts for close friends and others more generally public.

In China we have two primary online payment systems, one operated by Alibaba (called Alipay) and the other by WeChat. Its use is nearly universal in China and both are free to the user. During the past several years I cannot recall a single instance where I had cash in my pocket (even small change) when I went anywhere or was shopping for anything. Even to purchase a small bunch of green onions at a street market, the vendor has a QR code which my phone scans and the payment into their bank account is automatic.

With WeChat, we can send money to each other. If we want to share the cost of lunch, you can pay the entire bill and I transfer my share to you through WeChat. If I ever need cash, I could go to any shop or even approach a complete stranger and ask for 1,000 RMB and instantly repay him into his WeChat account. It is frequently used to transfer money internationally this way, sending dollars to a friend in one country and receiving RMB into a WeChat account in China. Instant, secure, and free of all fees. It all happens within a second, with a concurrent text message confirmation from the bank of both sides of the transaction. WeChat is the main reason people can travel anywhere in China with only a mobile phone and passport (and a change of clothing). Through WeChat, people can purchase plane or train tickets, pay taxi fares and hotel bills, restaurant tabs, in the same way.

Another useful WeChat function is real-time GPS location sharing. If a group is traveling to a destination in several cars, WeChat displays an active GPS map showing all locations in real space and time. If I am meeting a friend at a shopping mall or park or other large location, with this GPS function we can see each other’s location in real time and I know which way to walk to encounter my friend.

We have WeChat groups which we can create with any number of participants for any convenient purpose. During the COVID-19 lockdown in Shanghai we had a temporary WeChat group for the purchase of meat and vegetables that functioned better than any supermarket and with much less trouble. If I want to have a Christmas party I form a group of those I plan to invite, and all our discussions and planning take place within that platform. Most communities (small portions of residential districts) have a WeChat group for notification of community events and sharing important information.

The point with Trump’s “sanction” of WeChat is first that it will terminally disrupt international communications between China and the US for students, scientists, diplomats, media reporters, for all those in the US who have frequent communications with China, effects felt more seriously by those in China, which is a plus for Trump. Second, Trump’s administration is uncomfortable with the extent to which WeChat is encroaching on the American turf of Twitter, Facebook, WhatsApp, Instagram and more, with already around 100 million downloads in the US, and his actions are partially to reclaim that turf by simply banning a competing medium that is threatening to take over and seriously downgrade the popularity of similar American platforms.

But most important is the espionage and censorship role of Trump’s initiative. As the censorship noose tightens around Facebook and Twitter, Americans are naturally moving to WeChat. The real issue is not that WeChat poses any danger to the US in any sense but, as with Huawei, the CIA and NSA cannot very well approach WeChat and ask for automatic sharing of all that personal relationship data. Therefore, under the guise of China being untrustworthy, the US government simply bans WeChat and thus no one in the US can send or receive any message without the NSA having a copy. A huge plus is that any news not fitting the official narrative will then be strangled at birth, as Google, Facebook and Twitter are now doing. If Microsoft or another American firm were to buy WeChat, then of course all is well since it is US firms, not Chinese, who automatically share all personal contact data with their government.


















The China/America Series
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  1. Based Lad says:

    I was skeptical a year ago but the whole “DJT is the Pied Piper that will lead white America to their doom” schtick is starting to look plausible. Time to move to Estonia I suppose.

    • Agree: GazaPlanet, Owen C.
    • Replies: @anon
    , @Daemon
  2. d dan says:

    All these bans, blackmails, sanctions etc of Chinese products and blaming of China obviously serve the purpose to distract from Trump’s inexcusable incompetence in handling the Covid-19, BLM, total collapse of soft and diplomatic powers overseas, over 30% drop in GDP (with no end in sight), highest unemployment rate (with no end in sight), falling real incomes (with no end in sight), exploding debts (again, with no end in sight) – even with the supports of the biggest monetary and fiscal stimulus in human history.

    2020 likely will be the beginning of the end of American hegemony. No wonder Chinese have been saying “good job” to Trump.

    • Agree: Mary Marianne
    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Wally
  3. Steven80 says:

    It seems to me that the quite large part of the current generation of CEOs and US politicians in the USA don’t have much experience with censorship – perhaps this was not their main focus in the previous decades.

    I lived in the Soviet block as a kid, and censorship was everywhere. After several decades of media bulshit, the vast majority of the population did not beleive anything in the media. Everyone was getting information from other sources – being secretly listening to radio free europe, word to mouth stories from truck drivers, speaking to relatives in the party, speaking to foreign lecturers in universities etc.

    I know from my grandfather, that that in the 60-es the propaganda worked better and people beleived most of what the government told them. By the mid-80-es, no sane person was bying this. The system swiftly collapsed with the fall of the Brelin wall – there was just no trust and support as many peoplewere perceiving the state as their main enemy, one of the main reasons was this information war.

    I remember an article here about an ex-mossad guy called Victor Ostrovsky who published a book and all the agency efforts to silence him ended in making the book a bestseller. The second book was intentionally ignored, and received much less attention. This is the normal, civilised approach to make some information less attractive – otherwise there is a forbidden fruit everyone wants to taste.

    In my opinion, there is no way this old-school censorship game to be played along for decades in the internet age – a large part of the most productive population will start seeing the US state as an enemy and the number of those people will only grow each year. The way to censor is not to censor – in this era of interconnectedness and short attention span, it is enough to wait several days for a story to disappear by itself.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian, Alfred
  4. Antiwar7 says:

    This article is well-written, and all its points are true. Obviously true. In that you can scour the MSM and see confirmation of all the backdoors installed, and pressure, and intelligence “sharing” that the US and its allies are accused of.

    And if that’s true, it’s no wonder they want to drive China out for the reasons listed:
    – to prevent the availability of communication technology without US backdoors installed
    – to shore up US tech’s monopoly power

    • Agree: Art
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @showmethereal
  5. How easy is it to ban these things? If the National Spy Agency doesn’t want me to buy a Huawei modem instead of a Cisco does it have to be smuggled in? They would soon find they couldn’t penetrate it. Would they arrest me?

    The American government wants to spy on individual Americans and those weird people with 5 eyes, poor things, but why would China want to spy on us? And why would it matter if they did?

    Even if Chinese gadgets had back doors, wouldn’t we be safer being spied on by the Chinese rather than by the National Spy Agency?

    • Agree: Realist, GazaPlanet
  6. Realist says:
    @d dan

    All these bans, blackmails, sanctions etc of Chinese products and blaming of China obviously serve the purpose to distract from Trump’s inexcusable incompetence in handling the Covid-19, BLM, total collapse of soft and diplomatic powers overseas, over 30% drop in GDP (with no end in sight), highest unemployment rate (with no end in sight), falling real incomes (with no end in sight), exploding debts (again, with no end in sight) – even with the supports of the biggest monetary and fiscal stimulus in human history.

    Absolutely agree. Trump is just a minion for the Deep State.

    2020 likely will be the beginning of the end of American hegemony. No wonder Chinese have been saying “good job” to Trump.

    I hope so.

  7. Realist says:

    It’s fine when all US social media and US government agencies spies on its citizens…causing many to be ostracised, lose their livelihood or in some cases killed.

    But when China spies on US citizens…it’s the end of the world…even though China can cause no harm with the information gained.

    • Agree: Ann Nonny Mouse
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  8. Dumbo says:

    More and more the US has become some kind of evil Behemot trampling on everything, including its own citizens, and bringing trouble everywhere it goes – Middle East, Europe, Latin America, Russia, etc.

    Trump is tough on Chinese companies (“Who the chinks think they are to spy and steal data from people? Only American companies and government can do that!”). But what has he done against Mexican immigration? Against the cultural war against all that is traditional? Even against the BLM riots? Not much, except a lot of empty talk.

    I’m not a great fan of China, but maybe it’s better if they counterbalance US power. It may be better even for US citizens in the long run. I don’t think China has a plan or benefits by replacing white Americans (or Europeans) with low IQ black and brown hordes.

    • Agree: Ann Nonny Mouse
    • Replies: @Goddard
    , @Sick of Orcs
    , @Clive
  9. Smith says:

    I’m not a fan of social media so you wouldn’t see me crying about TikTok, wechat, FB, Twitter and such.

    But an idea just comes up, why doesn’t Unz share contents on TikTok or Bilibili?

  10. U. Ranus says:
    @Ann Nonny Mouse

    wouldn’t we be safer being spied on by the Chinese rather than by the National Spy Agency?

    Sadly, no. There’s nothing keeping China from putting backdoors into products (disabled for domestic use) or sharing data with NSA, Gulag, Facebook, or the ADL, as long as the price is right.

    All the recent China hate could be part of ongoing negotiations. China loves business, and its business isn’t being the American People’s loyal and trustworthy shepherd.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  11. I assume someone somewhere is reading all my data traffic. The salient question is, “Who can do more serious damage to me and my well being with the data being read.”

    • Replies: @Ann Nonny Mouse
  12. Chinaman says:

    Trump have done the CCP a great favour by uniting every Chinese around the world. Every Chinese is incensed by this blatant theft and allow the CCP to consolidate power through patriotism.

    Thanks, Trump. You have awaken a people from their 1000 year slumber. We want blood now.

    • Agree: Ghan-buri-Ghan, Alfred
    • Replies: @Johnny Smoggins
  13. All the major western sites are blocked in China including Wikipedia…all the newspapers every goddamn thing its high time they got a dose of their own medicine.

    Read that list and tell me why shouldn’t the west block their star sites.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Larry Romanoff
    , @Annon
  14. @Smith

    Original of Tiktok, by the way:

    China is not so smart and creative, from the video and my personally conclusion.

    • Replies: @Smith
  15. Ronnie says:

    China will eventually cease to cooperate with the USA because of these irrational punishments of successful Chinese companies. For example, why should China give billions every year to Sheldon Adelson in casino profits from Macao ? This money is partly used by Adelson to give million of dollars to Trump’s presidential campaign. China is shooting itself in the foot it this case. It is now clear that China prefers Biden for President. The recent unpleasantness between Adelson and Trump is probably due to China’s threats to pull the plug on Adelson. That is the rumor is Beijing today.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  16. For example, why should China give billions every year to Sheldon Adelson in casino profits from Macao ? This money is partly used by Adelson to give million of dollars to Trump’s presidential campaign.

    Politico reported that Trump berated Adelson for not giving his campaign more money it’s probably to do with his Macau casino business whose licenses come up for renewing this year. The Chinese must have had a ‘quiet word’ with Sheldon. Why else would Sheldon be reluctant to finance Trump he gave him everything gut the JCPOA, ratchet up sanctions on Iran, move the embassy to Jerusalem and recognize the Israeli occupation of Golan heights, he was the perfect Shabbosh Goy, no wonder Trump got mad at him, the only reason could be that the Chinese threatened to not renew his Macau Casino Licenses which would be a huge blow to that ancient man. Unz had suggested that the Chinese do that in response to the Huawei CFO kidnapping and now they seem to be doing that.

  17. d dan says:

    “All the major western sites are blocked in China including Wikipedia…all the newspapers every goddamn thing its high time they got a dose of their own medicine.”

    You are comparing apples with oranges (I am not sure intentionally or not). The reasons that these sites are blocked are because those companies chose to ignored various Chinese laws. Take for example Facebook. In 2009, major groups of terrorists used Facebook to coordinate and to plan their simultaneous attacks in Xinjiang. There were hundreds of casualties – mostly civilians, including both Hans and Uighurs. Chinese government asked Facebook to take down those terrorist “social” groups in Facebook – Facebook REFUSED. It therefore has been banned – any competent government in the world would do the same. See the video for the Xinjiang terrorist attack (including violent scene):

    I can go on to explain the several other western sites in the list – but the stories are all similar. Each ones break some Chinese laws or regulations.

    On the other hand, neither Huawei nor Tik Tok break any SINGLE US law. In fact, both companies unequivocally and explicitly state their clear intention to obey every single US laws. Huawei even sued the US government to force them to reveal the reason for the ban. Both Huawei and Tik Tok are even willing to go beyond legal compliance – for example, they are willing to submit source codes for US or other governments, or independent parties for review – those are standards that have not been imposed to other foreign companies.

    In the case of Tik Tok, Trump is threatening to ban it unless it is sold to specific companies (and not others – one wonders why). He does not even allow the founder to keep a minority share, and he also asks for a cut in the transaction – a totally unprecedented move by a government – it is similar to a mafia asking for “protection” money.

    • Thanks: Ghan-buri-Ghan
    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  18. @The Alarmist

    Agree. And it’s the spies of your own government, not the spies of a distant foreign government that doesn’t like your own, that are the greater threat.

    I mean you as a private individual. If they know you’re an engineer developing hypersonics the Chinese might have a reason to sneak in through a back door on your system.

  19. Reminds me of BlackBerry. BlackBerry security was just too darn good for the deep state to allow anyone except themselves to have it. Especially BB10 devices. The MSM noise was extremely loud here in Canada.

    Nortel was a long time ago. But I always thought that something similar was going on with that company’s downfall.

    • Agree: Curmudgeon
    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  20. @Realist

    Careful. The drones would call you a China bot soon. There are few thousand Reddit bots just for that purpose. Not sure if they have made it here.

    • Replies: @Realist
  21. @Ronnie

    Um, China has already stopped. They aren’t delusional. From Chinese chatter, there are those who think biden might be better. But most are stating anti China in the USA is bi partisan, both parties.

    China now wants to decouple, doesn’t matter what USA wants anymore.

  22. vot tak says:

    Great article. Explains the spook aspect well. Great description about how WeChat is used, also.

    • Agree: Menes
  23. Biff says:

    Instant, secure, and free of all fees.

    This pisses off the bankers in America. It’s still $25 to do an electronic transfer in the States.

  24. What exactly is wrong with any given country deciding it would rather have domestic rather than foreign products and solutions? Seems like that’s a basic first step in resisting globalism.

  25. GMC says:

    Thanks Larry – well I have windows 8 and my emails are always lost and recorded Im sure. One day the NSA was nice and sent me 25 emails from friends and family – from months and maybe years ago. Of course, RU. is a target for such things , you never know – that 73 year old girlfriend of mine – might be a super spy – lol . So tired of the One World Order B S.

  26. Malla says:

    Something which I never understood is how is it that one or two companies became so dominant in the world. Like Microsoft and now Google/Apple. Could not the Russians or the British or the Germans or the Japanese or the Koreans come up with any alternative? Seriously? The whole thing sounds like a scam to me.
    I was hoping that Sailfish from Finland would have become an alternative to these behemoths but it did not pan out. Sadly. It exists, if you guys want it, get a Jolla with a Sailfish OS or port your phone with a Sailfish OS.

    • Replies: @Daemon
  27. Some truth, but not most. The author is clueless about history. All this spying is short-term. Long-term, you can’t sustain a modern functioning society without a necessary noise, creativity, unpredictability, invention, freedom, chaos….

    That’s why all mass-controlled societies invariably collapse. Unfreedom necessarily leads to sterility & paralysis.

    That said, any society, especially modern, has to have some level of control & information manipulation capacity. Just- too much leads to collapse.

  28. anon[833] • Disclaimer says:
    @Based Lad

    Should be plenty of vacancies in Estonia as folks throughout the Baltics have been emigrating in droves. All Russia’s fault don’cha know.

  29. Anonymous[261] • Disclaimer says:

    to shore up US tech’s monopoly power

    Kinda makes you wonder if, 200 years ago when the United States was beginning to be competitive in industry and technology (~ 1830), the European nations also tried banning American products in a bid to keep their monopolies on wealth and power?

    Wonder how that worked out for them, and for world history?

    Ad the old Soviet Union found out, you have to learn better ways of doing things, because you can’t shut them out.

    • Agree: Antiwar7
  30. Miha says:

    Yes, we can agree with the obvious – that the US and China spy on each other and everyone else. But thereon this piece is just a collection of cherry-picked facts which fit the author’s agenda. Minimal light thrown for those who have concerns about this issue.

  31. @Grahamsno(G64)

    I don’t normally want to interfere in the conversations among readers, and I am neither monitor nor spy, but occasionally it is important to correct serious misunderstandings, in this case of blocked sites.

    First, Wikipedia gives you a list of sites that are blocked in China, but it doesn’t give you a list of sites that are blocked in the US. You probably tell yourself that no sites are blocked in the US because of your democracy and freedom of speech, but then you don’t know what you don’t know. The point is that blocking websites is not a one-way street, and you need to get used to the idea. Your government and media rigorously censor everything they don’t like to hear, but you will never know because they don’t tell you.

    The US government blocks websites from at least a dozen countries, mostly those they are demonising, because they don’t want you to know what the people in those countries are saying about you, and they don’t want you to know the truths that those people tell about your government and your country. At least in China, the government tells people what is blocked and why it is blocked, and mostly the people agree, and for the right reasons. There are hundreds of websites from China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Iraq, where the media reveal many uncomfortable truths about the US, so they ensure you don’t know and can’t find them.

    And any website that tells any truths about the events in Palestine, is automatically blocked because nobody wants you to know the truth. And there are many dozens of these.

    Secondly, the reason that many sites or platforms are blocked in China is the same rationale that is used today by Google, Facebook, Twitter and others – the elimination of fake news. Once again, you tell yourself that no American news medium or social platform spreads fake news about China, that everything they write is God’s own truth, but that is merely one more lie. The US media lie about almost everything, almost all the time, at least on matters involving foreign affairs and especially on China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, Iraq, etc. The Chinese have very good reason to block American news and social media, and you need to get used to that idea as well.

    But the article wasn’t about “blocking” news. It was about spying on civilians, and the reason your government is banning Chinese companies and media is because your NSA and CIA cannot access their information to spy on Americans (or Chinese, for that matter). Your government claims a risk that Chinese firms or media will use the collected information to spy on Americans, but that’s rubbish. What possible reason could the Chinese government have to want a record of your friends and contacts, and the content of your conversations? None that I can think of. But your NSA does want that information and record, and they can’t get it from Huawei, Tik-Tok or WeChat as they do from Google, Facebook and Twitter.

    And, like it or not, that’s the whole story.

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Thanks: Ann Nonny Mouse, Kali
    • Replies: @Saggy
    , @GMC
    , @Half-Jap
  32. @Sollipsist

    There is nothing wrong with wanting to ban tick tock or any other foreign app.

    But then why was USA crying about other countries banning certain apps?

    Using the threat of a ban to forced a fire sale to an American company. That is robbery. Same as Venezuela nationalizing foreign oil companies on it’s soil. Scary right? USA is now on the same level as Venezuela, a country it demonizes.

    This move also sends a strong signal to all foreign companies. Their ass can be taken at anytime. Without them breaking any laws. And no, this isn’t just globalism, this is mainly about the US economy.

    Protectionism is protectionism. Why do we need to dress it up under retarded national security bullshit? The first step to solve a problem is recognizing there is a problem, not cover it up to maintain the facade of the retarded “exceptionalism”.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
    , @Alfred
  33. @Bardon Kaldian

    Besides politics (but we aren’t a democracy either), China actually has way more freedoms than us.

    Not kidding.

    • Agree: d dan
  34. Biff says:

    What exactly is wrong with any given country deciding it would rather have domestic rather than foreign products and solutions?

    Nothing, except when someone is trying monopolize the market(for nefarious reasons).

    Seems like that’s a basic first step in resisting globalism.

    Globalism is monopolizing markets on a global scale including a one world government monopoly.

  35. @Astuteobservor II

    Beside politics?

    China is a zombie society at all levels.

    • Agree: AaronB
    • Troll: vot tak, d dan
  36. Grant says:

    Re. Tik Tok – all the US internet giants are against Trump and will not be able to be exploited by him as they were last election. By buying/arm-twisting Tik Tok, the fastest growing app, he gets a platform to use this election that isn’t controlled by Bezos et al. The Art Of The Deal.

  37. Dumbo says:

    It wouldn’t be a problem if the US was not so aggressive in monopolizing content worldwide. It would be better for most countries if the US did not basically monopolize the Internet (Facebook, Google, etc) and film production (Hollywood/Netflix), bitching when they are limited in other countries. Also I think the hypocrisy about the spying stuff.

  38. Goddard says:

    When I lived in China, Chinese visitors to the States would return and say, “So many immigrants!”

  39. Anonymice says:

    Happy that I live outside the US. I wouldn’t change my Huwaei laptop for any other brand – speed, quality, graphics, sound and price. Let them spy on me, for all that’s worth. Google, Facebook and YouTube have been doing it, so what’s the difference? Another American excuse for warding off competition with superior, more affordable gadgets and technology. They are bidding time for their mediocre products to catch up.

  40. jsinton says:

    For the Americans, rapprochemont with China was all about taking advantage of cheap labor, and bringing the Chinese into the fold of friendly world nations. It was assumed that China would naturally relax it’s political ideology in the face of the flow of information and the march of capitalism. It turned out to be a false hope, since the Chinese government had no intention of being friendly players or regarding rules when they thought it was advantageous.

    For the Chinese, it was always about playing the long game since the realized they had already lost the first cold war by economics. Socialism just can’t compete, so they went capitalist with a communist governing structure. To win the struggle with America, they had to be capitalists to afford the cost of a cold war. But instead of opening up the political structure, they’ve gone Orwellian on steroids. I can’t imagine living under such a socially oppressive system, but Chinese people are very good at doing what they are told, and Americans are not.

    The Americans thought they had won their cold war, thinking the Chinese had already lost. The Chinese always play the long game. I’m quite pleased America has woken up to the Chinese threat and is systematically disabling the Chinese economic infrastructure. Now we get to see the Chinese ugly face as we slam the door on them. I’ve advocated boycotting China for some time since it kills American jobs with little recipricallity. Average Joe lost that game, Wal-Mart won.

    Let’s celebrate the demise of Huawei, Tic Tok and WeChat. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
    , @Ugetit
    , @Goddard
  41. Important article, Larry Romanoff. I learned a lot. Especially your description of all the things WeChat can do seems to make it the perfect liberating fortune cookie against, for example, the latest rash of EU restrictions on private Internet money-for-product transactions. I wonder whether WeChat could free us from some of these onerous new rules here. For example, people in Europe can no longer buy simple things like books or airline tickets on line with their credit cards unless they first buy a smart phone. Yes, it’s true! That “security” edict came down from Brussels in September 2018, with the result that I cut up my credit cards as useless plastic. Why should anyone with failing eyesight or hearing impairment be forced to authenticate ordinary Internet transactions with a smartphone in order to put the charge on a credit card that dips directly into his bank account? I can easily understand how WeChat, at least as you described it, would quickly roll up the smartphone and credit card companies as well as all its direct Western competitors if it ever caught on in Europe. The future is looking Chinese to me.

    • Agree: Alfred
  42. @Dumbo

    I don’t think China has a plan or benefits by replacing white Americans (or Europeans) with low IQ black and brown hordes.

    The aforementioned hordes are presently a useful tool for thwarting Whites. China will eventually replace American Whites (and blacks/browns) with Chinese.

    This is why allowing immigration from the “Billion Plus Club” (India, China, Africa) is a colossal and lethal mistake.

  43. Realist says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Careful. The drones would call you a China bot soon.

    Not a problem.

  44. Smith says:
    @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    Isn’t TikTok itself clone of Vine.

    Bilibili itself is kind of a clone of NicoNicoVideo, except without the ads.

    Anyway, it’s less about being creative, it’s about creating apps that work and a bit social engineering, me think. I kinda understand why BiliBili starts to catch on but never over TikTok.

    Still, I don’t see why Unz or other alternative media (SouthFront) can’t push contents on chinese-owned apps/webs, see how things work out.

    They always go FB, Twitter and Youtube and complain when they get censored (fucking duh, FB and Twitter are 100% US fed/deep-state controlled). If China actually embraces internet freedom like some people say here, they would welcome Unz and other alternative voices.

  45. @Astuteobservor II

    There’s plenty wrong with some single person (president) or group of people (congress / courts) deciding what the other 300+million get to do. Statism, patriotism, nationalism, jingoism etc are all undiagnosed mental disorders.

    If I want to use something, why is it that gov’t gets to overrule me? The thinking that gov’t has the natural right to arbitrarily determine how a single person may conduct his business is tyranny.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  46. @jsinton

    The truth may be ugly from your perspective, but it is truth nonetheless.

    The Chinese have the manufacturing power. They are the creditors to the world, including to the US. Their people aren’t mutts with IQ’s ranging from the 70’s on up, but fairly consistent at 100 on up. The Chinese haven’t sanctioned the known world and neither have they bombed the shit out of it. Their military is within their borders, not murdering people in the ME and elsewhere.

    The Chinese have a one party gov’t as does the US if you ignore the theatrics around bogus elections. Both are autocratic, tyrannical, ruled by scumbags, so why cheer for the home team? Have you been propagandized to the point you can’t recognize who your enemies are – all of them?

    The only door that’s getting slammed is the Chinese walking away from the US, when it suits them – the long game.

  47. Ugetit says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    China is a zombie society at all levels.

    So is the US’s, which has been one for some time, and at all levels too, starting from the “top.”

    One, of nearly infinite, proofs: Look at the walking dead “we’ve” had the “privilege” of “voting” for over the last century.

    I suspect that the USSA Ziombie-Mafiosi Society is much worse, qualitatively, than China’s as well.

  48. Ugetit says:

    I can’t imagine living under such a socially oppressive system, but Chinese people are very good at doing what they are told, and Americans are not.

    Next time yer in the US, check the numbers of mask wearers around. At least where I’m from, it appears to be very nearly 100%.

    • Replies: @jsinton
  49. Goddard says:

    The Chinese always play the long game.

    And, I would add, the Chinese are ever ready to take what is handed to them. They stood in near disbelief as short-game Americans handed them our manufacturing base.

    The closing of the Houston consulate, pressure on Huawei, TicToc, and WeChat, etc. shouldn’t be seen as anti-China moves but as pro-no-longer-handing-power-to-China moves.

  50. Saggy says: • Website
    @Larry Romanoff

    The US government blocks websites from at least a dozen countries, mostly those they are demonising, because they don’t want you to know what the people in those countries are saying about you, and they don’t want you to know the truths that those people tell about your government and your country.

    A list of some of these sites would be nice.

    Also, a discussion of the mechanism, i.e. how they are blocked.

    The only site that I am aware of that is ‘blocked’ is and they are able to beat it.

  51. Anon[177] • Disclaimer says:

    “ During the past several years I cannot recall a single instance where I had cash in my pocket (even small change) when I went anywhere or was shopping for anything.”

    Truly frightening.

    No wonder we now fear a Chinese-style NWO with a virtual all-knowing dictatorship. Freedom necessitates fortitude: the fortitude to build a home, to fix the car, to commit to living with other persons and yes, to carry bills and coins.

    Soros and Gates must be busy sharing know-how with the Chinese.

  52. @Chinaman

    Are people in China still eating at KFC and McDonald’s? Are Chinese guys still buying Nike and NBA merchandise? Are young Chinese women still meeting over coffee at Starbucks? Are people in Macau stil gambling in the American owned casinos?

    I’m willing to bet the answer to all those questions is yes.

    If Chinese people really “want blood” you need to stop supporting American business in your country.

    • Agree: Badger Down
    • Replies: @Chinaman
  53. AaronB says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Agree. Long term there is no future for China as it is today. Even medium term, I think, the way things are going for poor China.

    • Troll: d dan
  54. Goddard says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Besides politics (but we aren’t a democracy either), China actually has way more freedoms than us. Not kidding.

    I know you’re not kidding. In China, Chinese friends who had just visited America used to say to me, “Why are there so many immigrants?” I would say frankly, “I understand your bewilderment. I’m a white man and I oppose uncontrolled, nation-transforming immigration. I believe in keeping America a nation with an overwhelmingly white majority.” Chinese would readily accept what I was saying. They accepted it because they believe the same thing about their own country, except you sub in “Han” where I had “white.” China ruthlessly kicked out the black Africans who were attempting to establish a foothold in Guangzhou, with some politicians and many civilians openly declaring China for the Chinese and blacks out. The fact that the Africans had any hope of colonizing the city was worrisome enough, but at least the Chinese had the instinct to get rid of them. In short, in China I could talk openly about HBD issues.

  55. I am learning Mandarin. I will teach my children as well. They will teach their children and so on. One day my descendants will be learning something else. Like it or not, it’s happening.

    The people that run the country aren’t the smartest. It is starting to show in the middle class. More and more people are turning out away from Christianity, and turning towards guilt.

  56. @d dan

    You seem to have forgotten that Blackberry was forced to submit, and that is what caused its collapse. The people using Blackberry used it for security, and didn’t give a crap about apps.

  57. @wilycoyote

    Nortel was a stock market scam. While it was a solid company, the hype created a stock buying spree for which there was no corresponding value. Nortel started buying up other companies to get rid of the massive cash inflow, not because of an underlying business model. Those were the days of the stock options for CEOs scam, where stock prices became more important than a solid business plan. The people at the top of Nortel cashed in, everyone else was wiped out.

  58. GMC says:
    @Larry Romanoff

    Another law that was not very visible, was the Propaganda law that Obama signed in 2013. We now have the right to use propaganda – Against the citizens of the USA. Of course this is not how the media portrayed the Law. They just noted that the propaganda from radio free Europe and other places will be used around the world to include national security or some BS like that. Thanks

  59. @Goddard

    54.Goddard says:

    “China ruthlessly kicked out the black Africans who were attempting to establish a foothold in Guangzhou . . .”

    No. That is absolutely untrue.

    There were (probably tens of ) thousands of black Africans in Guangdong – Guangzhou, Shenzhen etc. who were there to buy inexpensive goods to ship back home at a profit. The problem was that they were there on 90-day tourist visas and never left, many staying for several years, hiding out, and avoiding the police.

    When the medical officials were going door-to-door to do COVID-19 testing, they were astonished to see Africans jumping out of their windows (lower floor, I assume) and running off, afraid of any contact with the authorities who would want to see their passports.

    The stories in the US media of landlords and hotels refusing to accept Africans because of racism, were unconscionable bullshit and China-bashing. Foreigners cannot stay in a Chinese hotel without a valid passport, and most of these people had none. Renting an apartment is the same. End of story.

    • Agree: Badger Down
    • Thanks: Mary Marianne
    • Replies: @Goddard
    , @Erebus
  60. @Ann Nonny Mouse

    When you live in the west, being spied on by the Chinese is definitely safer than being spied on by the USA. After all, most western countries don’t have an extradition treaty with China, but they sure as hell have one with the USA. Just ask Julian Assange.

    • Agree: GMC, Ann Nonny Mouse
  61. Mefobills says:
    @U. Ranus

    When CISCO first started developing switches and routers, the Chinese government asked for a back door.

    The door ended up being at the code level of power pc chip. Cisco saluted and did the Chinese bidding.

    There’s nothing keeping China from putting backdoors into products (disabled for domestic use) or sharing data with NSA, Gulag, Facebook, or the ADL, as long as the price is right.

    For example, anything about Tianaman square, or critical of the government, will cause a flag, and then it can be tracked backward through the net.

    There is no way to get around the need for a King or ruling hierarchy that has the best interests of its population in mind. Grind your teeth all you want.

    What to do if psychopaths take over the reins of government? That begs the second question… why are psychos in government and what sort of programs are in place to exclude them?


  62. sally says:
    @Ann Nonny Mouse

    I think your question “Why would it matter? is a very important question. and needs to become a narrative of its own..

    From the Chinese prospective: spying on everyday Americans I think the answer is except for marketing and new product design, China back door spying on average Americans, would have little political value.. but from the Chinese prospective on spying on on everyday Chinese persons it might matter if China were involved in the same kind of bio-directed feedforward/feedback controlled system implemented by technology companies in concert with the Chinese government as is done in USA governed America.

    From the USA prospective: spying on every day Americans, it is very important to the USA to be able to control Americans. The USA has developed a bio systems, wireless technology and satellite surveillance to a fine art. The USA has a feedback informed, propaganda feed set of psychologically designed misinformation schemes. It adjust the propaganda to returned data resulting from spying (feedback control) to adjust the next propaganda presentation to accomplish mind control.

    Americans are prisoners of the information environment the USA governors have forced Americans to remain in. HUAWEI and Wechat would mess that up. The USA policed information environment is completely controlled by the 527 abusers who get paid to run the USA that colonizes America. The USA by and through contracts and agreements with industry, is probably the most abusive government in the world but it is also the most secretive. Its various tech companies. medical providers, medical insurance providers, and automobile license providers, money transfer agents, mortgage lenders and credit providers constitute a massive spy network.

    Believe me a big part of the USA spy system is accounted for by its access to the medical records of all Americans.

  63. Wally says:
    @d dan

    You are laughably wrong and easily shown to be so.

    The Communists crash the economy with CV19 lies and blame it on Trump, how predictable,
    The left wants to keep everyone terrified and hiding in their houses for two big reasons:
    1) Wreck the economy so they can turn people against Trump, and
    2) Force mail-in voting so they can CHEAT.
    And only global Communists are worried about ‘overseas power’, aka: more wars.

    The Trump Derangement Syndrome / Orange Man Bad:
    President Trump’s Handling of The Virus :
    Big Holes in the Covid ‘Spike’ Narrative, by Ron Paul:
    The Great Corona Con: Exposing Journalistic Malpractice:
    50 Things Neo-Marxists Don’t Want You to Know About Trump:
    Exposed: leftist Dr Fauci’s 15 Deadly COVID-19 Errors:
    Fauci Is a Deep State Fraud, by Angelo Codevilla:

    • Replies: @anti_republocrat
  64. @Smith

    My point here is that many people here think China is very creative on the apps meanwhile the China apps is actually copy of the fail or non-popular US apps. I mean I suspect there is something spooky between US and China so US just does not care about the China ‘copy cat’ apps.

    Actually, if you type ‘ the unz review’ on the google search or anything else, you will see that Sohu also talk about the Unz Review.

    However, I personally think the reason China does not censored the Unz Review not because China respects the freedom of speech but because the pro-China phenomenon (bunch of sino-sycophant and sino-philia) here in the Unz Review, which is also happening in many alternative news.

    Let take an example, if the Unz Review post the anti-China news from a Vietnamese (to me, Vietnamese anti-China views especially the elder one always accurate and hard cold truth), every week or every month at least, I pretty sure that China will censor the Unz Review immediately.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  65. @Bardon Kaldian

    A Zionist agrees with you.

    Time for some self reflection. If you can managed.

  66. Half-Jap says:
    @Larry Romanoff

    What possible reason could the Chinese government have to want a record of your friends and contacts, and the content of your conversations?

    You haven’t heard of data mining, have you? Or data science? Good time to start. In any case, the surveillance state prefers to have as much data as possible, even if most is rubbish, just in case. Plenty of compromising/damaging info in those garbage personal exchanges. Also, good way to screen potential malcontents, as defined by the state or whatever entity. NSA is busy compiling junk tremendously.

    China or US, I see no difference in their surveillance activities; in part prudent, while us proles have no protection in any event; many are even willing to not be free anyways. Perhaps you welcome the digital overlords too.

    Seems you also believe in a benevolent censor that decides what is beneficial and whatnot; censorship is good because people are too stupid to make up their own minds, or perhaps truth is too dangerous for the censoring regimes. Current China is young, it may not have as much dirty laundry as the US, but both seem insistent on censorship, for the Good, ofc. We can’t have people talking amongst themselves about whatever that bothers them; best distract them with something else, and in any event keep info on them just in case they decide to act up; Freedom only within the permitted cage.

    The only truth is that which the censor decides is so.

    However the form the censorship takes place, and by whichever entities engages or attempts to engage in, I do not understand why somehow China is so special in being uniquely endowed in determining the truth, the goodness and moralness and whatnot of all that is and shall be and has been.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  67. Herald says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    China is a zombie society at all levels.

    Well maybe, but thankfully those Chinese “zombies” have a massive IQ and educational edge over the dumb-downed rest.

  68. @RoatanBill

    That is a very complicated issue. I actually don’t know how to begin to address it. I think it all rests on having good leaders for the country.

    In this case, they are suppose to represent us, the voters who elected them. So, if tick tock really is breaking US laws, banning it would be the right move.

    This ban with the sorry, made up excuse of national security is tyranny, no argument from me on that.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  69. @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    The unz is everything.

    No side dominates. Please seek Reddit if you need hourly anti China doses.

  70. Ram says:

    Trump’s business adviser is Crassus.

  71. @Astuteobservor II

    You are assuming that the US gov’t is legitimate. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    Elections are stage managed to produce one of two possible outcomes, either of which satisfies the oligarchy.

    Your quip about good leaders is shocking to me. There’s no such thing as a good leader. They are all after power and privilege and to hell with the peasants. The morons that vote in elections provide the veneer of legitimacy the kakistocracy requires to maintain their facade.

    Law is an opinion. That flat out statement is provable by noting that there are different laws in different jurisdictions, all of them the opinions of the ruling class that concocts the laws that stupid people believe they are required to obey.

    You are no where near an astute observer. You’ve been fed propaganda and swallowed it with never considering you’re ingesting mental poison.

    Wake the hell up.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  72. jsinton says:

    Americans might wear a mask, this is true (but not in my town). But anyways just wait till they try to mandate the vaccines, and you’ll find out how many won’t do it.

  73. anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    The irony. Reddit is partly owned by the Chinese, whereas TikTok is partly owned by the Americans and is run by Americans.

    “Kevin A. Mayer is an American businessman and the CEO of TikTok and COO of its parent company ByteDance Ltd. Prior to his appointment as TikTok CEO, Mayer was the Chairman of Direct-to-Consumer & International division of The Walt Disney Company.”

  74. d dan says:

    Some speculations I am throwing out here. Assume that on Sep 15, Tik Tok “agrees” to be sold at $x to Microsoft, with $y goes to US (both as Trump instructs and wants), the question then is what, or whether the Chinese government will agree.

    The original Tik Tok is based on Douyin. The codes and AI technologies (e.g. neural networks) are implemented in China. The machine learning techniques are trained with massive data from the user base of Chinese consumers. There is conceivably a case to be made that the sale of Tik Tok to Microsoft could jeopardize Chinese national security and/or commercial interests because it would allow Microsoft and CIA to reverse engineer those trained parameters to understand Chinese users behaviors, preferences and habits.

    I don’t know whether Chinese government will do anything, but if they want, they could throw a monkey wrench to the transaction to see what Trump will do next.

  75. @Goddard

    I think you meant the freedom to express their opinions on immigration, minorities, blacks without committing social and career suicides.

    See, that is a perfect example of more freedom.

  76. @RoatanBill

    Lol. Then what do we do, go for anarchism? Everyone make up their own laws?

    From you last two comments, the individual trumps all.

    What do you suggest?

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  77. @Half-Jap

    You can only go by track record. And you cannot use it as a basis for future predictions. Who knows when and if a Chinese version of Trump will pop out to fuck with the Chinese.

    So far, the Chinese govt are doing great for the Chinese citizens.

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
  78. anon[290] • Disclaimer says:

    From the Chinese prospective: spying on everyday Americans I think the answer is … back door spying on average Americans, would have little political value..

    Having a complete psychological profile of another nation’s citizens has “no political value”?

    Detecting response to your psychological ops has no value?

    Collecting information on Americans who are in sensitive posts has no value?

    Why do you think 5 Eyes run their total surveillance systems? Because information is inherently valuable.

    • Replies: @anon
  79. Goddard says:
    @Larry Romanoff

    No. That is absolutely untrue.

    For what it’s worth, Wikipedia has the African population of Guangzhou going from 100,000+ in 2012 to 10,344 in 2017 (

    • Replies: @Hbd investor
  80. @Astuteobservor II

    You are correct, the individual trumps all.

    You are correct again that anarchism, the most peaceful ideology, is what we should practice. Anarchism – rules but no rulers. We all know the only law that makes sense is the golden rule. The rest is tyranny.

    Why exactly should we listen to the criminal political class? Why do they get to make the laws that we have to obey when the laws routinely don’t apply to them?

    Stretch your mind and realize that priests and politicians are the real criminals in the society. Never listen to either one of them.

    • Agree: Kali
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  81. vinteuil says:

    From the USA prospective: spying on every day Americans, it is very important to the USA to be able to control Americans. The USA has developed a bio systems, wireless technology and satellite surveillance to a fine art. The USA has a feedback informed, propaganda feed set of psychologically designed misinformation schemes. It adjust the propaganda to returned data resulting from spying (feedback control) to adjust the next propaganda presentation to accomplish mind control.

    Sally, you need at least another year or two of training. Just about every other word, here, is hilariously wrong.

  82. anon[191] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    If you look at US entertainment, media and book publishing and compare it to 40 years ago, you will see that the US has been a sea of sterility for years. The US has just run out of steam and we are seeing the last throws of a dying dinosaur thrash its tail. The problem is though, parts of the dinosaur don’t know that the main body’s dying. Those parts think that the main body is still vibrant and alive and will go on for some time until their life support is cut off. An animal is at its most dangerous when its wounded and will do anything however irrational to survive.

  83. vinteuil says:

    The Chinese do so many things so well that it’s kind of startling to see how bad they are at their version of hasbara.

    Maybe it’s because their language is so distant from ours that crypsis is harder for them than it is for the chosen.

  84. Annon says:

    Just checked all them banned apps.Not many people would install any of them or read msm papers.
    All listed are cia opps,or most of them.

  85. Anon[139] • Disclaimer says: • Website

    There is a very good reason these apps and huawei are being banned which no one is talking about. It’s called real time geolocation tracking.

    The chinese trojan horse army has many thousands of criminal/assasin boots on the ground in North America. Trust me, you are not physically safe if you are an effective opponent of the CCP or a target.

    Neither are your children, anywhere in North America right now. And its going to get worse.

  86. You left Israel out of your analysis. Bill Gates turned Microsoft over to Israel in about 2014. Windows 10 is all coded in Israel and the other big tech firms including Facebook all depend on Israel tech firms for its R&D.

    You will also discover Tok-Tok and WeChat are used extensively in Israel and likely do R&D for them as well. Likely the same with Huawei.

    In a lecture, Benjamin Netanyahu mentioned Israel as being the “2nd eye” so include that in your nomenclature please. Israel dominates cyber security.

    As it stands right now the US cannot stop further Israel-China cooperation in technology and trade and investment. What can be observed happening here is that the US is now prevented from accessing technology from China while Israel is benefiting greatly from it.

    Check private equity flows into Israel. That’s where the deals are done in “private”.

    • Replies: @Malla
  87. @Wally

    The Communists crash the economy with CV19 lies and blame it on Trump, how predictable

    “Communists” is clearly intended within this context to be a reference to the Chinese Communist Party. Please post the emails from Xi to the various state governors instructing them to order lockdowns.

    Everything you said is true about the Democrats, including their alliance with (actually, use of) Neo-Marxists, who aren’t really Marxists at all because Marx was all about class analysis and the Antifa and BLM Neo-Marxists wouldn’t recognize class analysis if it bit them on the ass.

    But pule-e-eze cut the China!China! crap, which is just as insane as Russi!Russi! We have met the enemy and he is US.

    • Replies: @Wally
  88. Clive says: • Website

    Low IQ black and brown hordes? Is that an appropriate comment. Gee. How can U look so clean and think so dirty? No wonder with hordes of mutants from a distant star, spreading crap, race hatred is high on the menu.

    • Replies: @vot tak
  89. @RoatanBill

    Rules but no rulers.

    Who makes those rules?

    What happens when my rules conflict with yours?

    Anarchism doesn’t work, not for any meaningful number of people living together.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  90. @d dan

    If this shit goes down as Trump wants. China would have lost a lot in appearance. In a war of words, appearance is almost everything.

    And if it includes mature AI research, the Chinese govt would be stupid not to stop the sale of any kind. That would actually be Chinese national security.

  91. @Astuteobservor II

    Why not investigate anarchism yourself instead of asking the same questions that have been asked and answered thousands of times before.

    That’s how you learn.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  92. Exartizo says:

    So this is slightly off topic,

    A close relative of mine FINALLY received her $1200 stimulus check.


    Her husband passed away in January 2019.

    The check for $2400 from the government was addressed to her AND HER DECEASED HUSBAND.

    It ACTUALLY SAID “DECEASED” on the check.


    The government ACTUALLY knew they were sending a check to a deceased person.

    My relative will send the $1200 back as the IRS says to do,



    • Replies: @Anonymous
  93. anon[544] • Disclaimer says:

    Agree, however, there is a way a country can prevent that. For example, the Chinese government had Apple built its data centers in China so that the information iPhones collected would not be controlled by Apple. Same with Tik Tok, the Chinese company purposely built its data center in the US to that the US government can monitor its usage.

    CIA Finds ‘No Evidence’ Chinese Government Has Accessed TikTok Data, Report Says

    The excuse to ban TikTok on national security grounds has no merit to it. Trump’s bid to force TikTok sale makes some Americans feel uneasy. This could go down a slippery slope, as in the long term, it might not go well for the US companies.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Anon
  94. This is why we boycott Apple, Amazon, Facebook, and the US in general.

  95. Erebus says:
    @Larry Romanoff

    The stories in the US media of landlords and hotels refusing to accept Africans because of racism, were unconscionable bullshit and China-bashing.

    Not quite true, Larry.

    The fact is that as the pandemic turned from a domestic problem to an international problem some portion of the Chinese population took a dim view of foreigners and there were plenty of instances of landlords, hotels as well as restaurants, taxis etc refusing foreign customers. I experienced it myself, and it got worse as you got further away from the big cities.

    Having said that, they took a dim view of Chinese from Corona hotspots as well. People from Wuhan & even Hubei returning to their jobs outside the province found themselves unwelcome. Many lost those jobs. That’s what pandemics do to people, and ’twas ever thus.

    It got to the point that the govt of Guangdong issued a statement on April 18 in both English and Chinese reinforcing the govt’s position that discrimination against specific groups is illegal, and even created a 24-hour multi-lingual service hotline if the discrimination escalated to something that may disturb the peace.

    Many foreigners in Guangdong carried a copy of the Chinese version of that statement with them to show anyone refusing service that they were breaking the law. This usually worked well enough that the hotline remained (I’m told) rather quiet.

    Since then, the situation has calmed down a lot, and I haven’t experienced anything for months, though some foreigners I know have. Interestingly, in those instances I’m aware of random Chinese passers-by intervened and gave the transgressor a public lecture.

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
    , @showmethereal
  96. @Astuteobservor II

    I personally don’t think the Unz Review side with anybody. However, Mr. Unz literally idols China so blindly and his idolization on China remind me so much on those K-pop fan or those inferiority complex Vietnamese who idols US so blindly due to the corruption of Vietnamese government.

    I say this:

    However, I personally think the reason China does not censored the Unz Review not because China respects the freedom of speech but because the pro-China phenomenon (bunch of sino-sycophant and sino-philia) here in the Unz Review, which is also happening in many alternative news.

    Let take an example, if the Unz Review post the anti-China news from a Vietnamese (to me, Vietnamese anti-China views especially the elder one always accurate and hard cold truth), every week or every month at least, I pretty sure that China will censor the Unz Review immediately.

    I don’t think I says that the Unz Review is a pro-China website unless if my bad English causes you and anyone else misunderstand, so my apologize for this.

    Allow me to explain again:

    I say the reason China does not censor the Unz Review because the Unz Review has bunch of pro-China reports and bunch of commenter who is Sino-Sycophant and Sinophilia. The topic like Hitler, Race Realism, etc. is nothing-burger to China. Unless one day the Unz Review has another Vietnamese writer who posts the anti-China news (Vietnamese Anti-China perspective is always correct) every week or every month at least, China will censor the Unz Review immediately.

    Allow to ramble here little bit:

    Those Anti China mindset in US and European is bullshit and they are nothing more than the ‘muh evil commie autism reek’. From what I understand, Communism, Capitalism, Feudalism, or anything else is just ‘the machine’ and ‘the machine’ is used good or bad is depended on the leader. Good leader then good machine and bad leader then bad machine, that all. For example, Ho Chi Minh brang the Communism to North Vietnam (well the land reform is the big black mark in Ho Chi Minh career but Ho Chi Minh also saved the victim of the land reform) but from what I heard from my parents and grand parents, Vietnam under Ho Chi Minh is pretty traditionalism, conservatism, pseudo-feudalism somewhat (?), and Vietnamese Communism is, in fact,Vietnamese Nationalism and Patriotism or in the simple way Communism is not Communism.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  97. Daemon says:

    The thing with technology most of the time isnt the technical challenge.
    It’s getting people to adopt it en mass thats the real challenge

  98. vot tak says:

    It’s called psywar. The likudite zionazi-(very)gay freakshow wants to use race to divide their potential foes. This applies almost universally in the ziowest. The white supremacists are a zionazi-(very) gay bend over boi club, every sodding one. They may pretend to be anti-jew, for street cred, but their real goal has nothing to do with Jews, it’s all about keeping non jews, opposition to zionazi control, wasting their energy fighting each other instead of the oligarchs exploiting them to the max now.

    • Replies: @Malla
  99. Daemon says:

    I still have absolutely no idea why they named a social media platform using the nickname of an anime character.

    • Replies: @Smith
  100. Daemon says:
    @Based Lad

    All those guns … and you want to run away?
    Man right-wingers really are just full of talk.

  101. Wally says:

    – I’m referring to the now Communist Democrat Party of the US, not China.

    – Although China clearly tried to hide their virus blunders as stated by their own scientists.

    – Antifa will tell you that they are about race and class, but I agree, they are pathetic; but then all Communists are.

    – I also suggest that you delve into ‘Black Lives Matters’, which you ignored, and their clearly Communist agenda.

    – BTW, class is but one aspect of Communism.

    Communist Manifesto, by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels:

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
  102. @anon

    Any foreign country can force American companies to sell the portion in their countries, just like tik tok is now.

    That is the door Trump opened. This is the precedent.

    That is why it is bad for the US economy in the long term.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  103. @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    But your argument falls flat when this site got a few authors who are vehemently anti China. Countless comments that are also anti China.

    In your view, being logical about China, not blindly hating on it is pro China.

    That is on you.

    If you need an echo chamber, Reddit fits your needs. It has plenty of bots to provide a soothing environment for you.

  104. Malla says:
    @vot tak

    Wrong, White nationalists (unless a few controlled secretly by Zios) are the white blood cells of the Society. That is why Zio Media attacks them the most because Zios and their media re the HIV and they weaken the body defenses. brown blacks are the other pathogens attacking the body and killing it off.

  105. Malla says:
    @Technion Boys

    Check out Operation Talpiot. Eventually the nerve center of all the AI and surveillance in the world will move to Israel.

  106. @RoatanBill

    But I am having a conversation with you now. Answer my questions.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  107. The ugly Chinese is simply another knock-off for the old tried and true ugly American or ugly Brit. They’re not some sort of ubermensch and are quite hated throughout asia for their lies and outright stealing. Of course everyone wants their money but they’re cursed behind their back. Its what they’re good at. But,like I said before, its not much different than what the US has gotten away with. So let’s be honest here… we have two bullies and they’re doing their level best to beat each other to a pulp. Let’s pray that we can steer clear of these retarded gorillas and their hissy fits.

  108. Half-Jap says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    I tend to agree, from what my friends and relatives have said, but it is only regarding their circumstance and network, and not that of areas that are yet shrouded in mystery to me, such as xinjiang prov.
    It’s China’s business there, but the lack of access by disinterested parties is concerning, for example.

    • Replies: @Anon99
  109. Half-Jap says:
    @d dan

    You are correct in regards to the data.
    I advised clients often to be aware of where theirs are stored, and if tiktok becomes US based re storage (or even traffic), and international user data are stored there, then they are all at risk of the well known practices of the US in seizing or pilfering such data, or using it as a basis to exercise jurisdictional authority. Considering the tendency of US successfully exercising jurisdiction over the most trifling basis such as data even relayed through US servers, I could see an argument being made to impose US law on non-residents.
    Pisses me off.

  110. Half-Jap says:

    Give Marx a break for a change!
    Judge him by his better work, Das Kapital. Manifesto’s just hot air anyways.
    While he was personally a garbage human and Marxism even worse, quite a lot of great analyses on economy there for one to appreciate.
    I used to troll marxist college students/profs by beginning with how Marx was not a marxist. Good times.

  111. Chinaman says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    If Chinese people really “want blood” you need to stop supporting American business in your country.

    Used apple since the first Iphone and writing this on an IPad.

    But I am going to get a Huawei 5G phone. My experience might suffer but I will do it to support Huawei. A lot of my friends are doing that to show their solidarity.

    Everyone one of these American brands have competitors in China and they will lose a lot of business over time simply because they are perceived as American. It is not as if the Chinese does not have any alternative. There is nothing unique or technologically advanced about McDonald and Starbucks. It is just branding. It is only a problem when there is no alternative….like when you want 5G in America and end up with a fake one from AT&T. Decoupling is not one sided. The last time I ate American crap was a long time ago ( that shit is for pigs anyway) Sands and Wynn will be shut down in Macau. It is a privilege for them. Who can’t run a gambling den? Starbucks is so passé, do you really think their coffee is much better?

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @AaronB
  112. Alfred says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Same as Venezuela nationalizing foreign oil companies on it’s soil

    That is a poor example. US companies bought up generations of Venezuelan politicians to get their rights to this oil.

    Same thing in South Africa. Companies wanted whites out of politics so that they could more easily bribe blacks. That’s why so many Jews remained in South Africa while the Afrikaners were forced to leave – it they could.

    This article is by an apologist for this invasion by Bantu from elsewhere in Africa taking over the country. The photo shows a piece of land that used to be an Afrikaner’s farm. Doubtless, it was immaculate with well-fed cattle and tidy productive fields or orchards.

    The Myth of White Genocide

    Below is an aerial photo of a Jewish gated community with a shanty town just outside. A little Israel. Guess who is profiting from bribing the blacks?

    The Opulent, Segregated, Hypocritical, Jewish Gated Communities of South Africa

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  113. Half-Jap says:

    Indeed, black folk are abhorred in China, quite low in the welcome foreigner scale.
    I do not like Larry R. and his rigorous white-knighting of a people that are much more honest about their biases.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  114. @Astuteobservor II

    My point here is that the few ‘anti-China authors’ and those ‘countless anti-China commenters’ in the Unz Review are bunch of idiot who hate China not for the right reason but for the wrong reason like ‘muh evil commie’ meanwhile the people like me hate and distrust China due to its imperialism and opportunism nature.

    For Example:
    Commenter ‘Just Passing Through’ is an Anti-China and Pro-Japan and the person even declared that Rape of Nanking and Unit 731 are ‘Evil Chinese Commie Hoax’. Meanwhile, I in fact believe and conclude that Rape of Nanking and Unit 731 in China is real (this is common sense and completely different to the Holohoax, of course). Majority of Anti-China here had the same ‘muh evil commie China’ attitude like that.

    This is reason why bring up the example that “the Unz Review will be banned on China if the website let an anti-China Vietnamese (the local one not oversea ones especially, I should add the detail since the beginning) because we Vietnamese had so much distrust on China since the thousand years. Vietnamese Anti-China perspective, especially the old ones, is always correct.

    My hate and distrust on China is more likely being logical on China, I think so. I am in fact admire China on many things but that does not mean my admire on China will make me forget the reason for my hate and distrust on China. I don’t put all positive things into the same box and also same to the negative things.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  115. Anon[316] • Disclaimer says:

    At last we get to know a bit more about “Larry Romanoff”. He’s Chinese.

  116. @Astuteobservor II


    You are, in my estimation, incapable of understanding anarchism until you immerse yourself in its tenets by actively seeking them out voluntarily. I’d be wasting more of my time than I already have on a shallow thinker too lazy to research on his own.

    • Agree: Kali
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  117. @Half-Jap

    Strange since African students study in China more than any other place in the world. But all humans have biases. One has nothing to do with the other. Chinese don’t like foreign culture much. Yet rap – invented by Caribbean American blacks in The Bronx NYC is popular among young Chinese of various ethnic groups. Not really wanting too many foreigners living in your country is not the same as hating a race. In the Ming Dynasty – the Chinese were trading with East Africa and never sought to subjugate them. Huge difference.

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
  118. @Astuteobservor II

    But most countries never will…. They are too scared because of past American invasion (too many to count) or sabotage (little Jamaica because of bauxite to big Iran because of oil) if they tried to force a US company to do that.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  119. @Erebus

    No the contention in the western media was that the Chinese government was instructing people to discriminate. All it was – was a campaign to turn African opinion against China since Africa and it’s resources have been tilting away from the west and toward China. As you noted – even CHINESE people from Wuhan and Hubei were being discriminated against. There was also a Chinese woman from Australia who was arrested for breaking quarantine. She was “roasted” by people on social media. Again – obviously nothing to do with race. Even in Wuhan – local residents who had the virus complain people in their neighborhoods treat them a certain way. Is that race? Is that a government policy. NO. But the issue with the Africans in Guangdong – the western media tried to make it a race issue. Very clever.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  120. @Antiwar7

    At the end of the day – it has nothing to do with security and spying. It’s about money. Nations will continue to spy on nations. Fact is Huawei is #1 – Tik Tok is the most popular app in the world – WeChat is more useful than any US app – which now copies from Tencent… Amazon now copies from Alibaba and so expect to see some sanction against them for “national security”. China is beginning more and more to overtake the US in every aspect of the global economy. Ask Fortune magazine:

  121. Half-Jap says:

    You have great points. Thank you. I should also consider such distinctions.

  122. @showmethereal

    Thailand and Indonesia has already announced plans. At least 5 countries are planning to collect tax on Facebook and companies like it. It isn’t robbery but forcing Facebook like companies to pay.

    When it is one or two countries, it is dangerous since like you stated, USA can sanction or outright invasion. But what happens when you have 10 or more countries? Or even European American allies start doing it?

    And what do you think are the consequences if USA sections or invade a south east Asian country right now? With USA engaging in an economic war with China?

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @showmethereal
  123. @RoatanBill

    Lol. Another retarded ideologue. You are no different from the retarded liberals or conservatives. Zero grasp of real life.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  124. @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    List your reasons on why you hate China. List them. I would like to know how logical your hate is.

  125. AaronB says:

    I think decoupling would be best for both of us. It doesn’t have to be done with any hard feelings or animosity. We are simply incompatible for the time being.

    Nothing coming from China is interesting or relevant to the West – no technology or culture. And as you say, nothing coming from the West is interesting or relevant to China.

    The only thing about China interesting to the West are its large markets and cheap labor force – but none of that is essential. In fact it would be much better if we could not rely on your cheap labor force and force our CEOs to pay average people more. The only thing interesting about the West to China are its intellectual and technological innovation, and its markets, but as I have been hearing for a long time now, China is on the verge of becoming innovative, and its own internal market is very big, so you don’t need the West any more. Bravo. Even though you couldn’t have done it without our help, you still did it.

    Lets calmly and politely go our separate ways. You can have your Hermit Kingdom, and the West, Japan, Korea, and every one else can have the freewheeling rest of the world.

    The chaos, disorder, freedom, and dynamism of the West is frightening to you, and the repression and regimented authoritarianism of China is repellent to us.

    So the only sensible thing is to separate for now.

    When two incompatible people meet whose personality traits cannot get along, the only sensible course is for them to separate. Unfortunately instead of being sensible they often try and force their values on the other – and the outcome is inevitably tragic.

    I think there is a tradition in China that is compatible with the freewheeling dynamism of the West, Taoism. And that too is the source of creativity in Chinese culture. But that tradition is today suppressed in China, so there just isn’t any point where we might connect.

    With all the best wishes in the world and with the hopes for better times to come, perhaps it is time to go our separate ways.

    • Replies: @Obsequious
  126. @Astuteobservor II

    For a numbnuts that didn’t answer my questions, why should I answer yours?

    When those same stupid questions have been asked and answered numerous times and could be found by Internet search, why should I waste my time on someone whose mind is already made up?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  127. d dan says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    “When it is one or two countries, it is dangerous since like you stated, USA can sanction or outright invasion. But what happens when you have 10 or more countries? Or even European American allies start doing it?”

    You may or may not be aware:

    “The Trump administration on Friday [July 10] announced plans to impose 25 percent tariffs on about $1.3 billion worth of French products in response to the country’s digital service tax that impacts major U.S. technology companies.”


    The problem with China is that it is the ONLY country in the world (not any European countries, not Japan, not Korea, and certainly not those jealous neighbors) that manages to create Internet companies beating US behemoths, overcoming US soft power from a culturally alien position. And that is just starting. So, China’s crime is totally inexcusable, for a a zombie society at all levels with no medium term future and no interesting things coming. Therefore, Trump decides it is very important to ban all US chips (potato or otherwise) in order to help provide free advertisements of China’s brands.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  128. @d dan

    Trump is shooting USA in the foot.

    This is actually an opportunity for China if China can manage it. Woo the French. The result might be surprising.

  129. @RoatanBill

    You had questions? Aren’t ideologues like you only good at lecturing others about your fantasies?

  130. @Alfred

    It is perfect actually.

    In both cases, the foreign companies loses everything within the country. You might think the sale price of tik tok would be something, but compare to all the future lost profits, it is literally nothing.

  131. Yes, I had questions. These are sentences with question marks (?) at the end. You ignored them. They were questions designed to make you think about your statist position.

    One need not delve into anarchist thought processes at all to become an anarchist. All one has to do is to HONESTLY look at what all forms of government have wrought in just the last 100 years.

    Democide has claimed the lives of 200 million people in the 20th century. This level of murder can’t be ascribed to the ordinary individual. It takes a concerted effort to murder that many people and gov’t enabled and encouraged it.

    Gov’t taxation is a euphemism for theft, plain and simple, and is extorted from the population with violence as the threat. How is this reasonable?

    An intelligent person must conclude that gov’t is just a criminal enterprise with good public relations and advertising for the dolts in the society. An intelligent individual will want to distance himself from the thieves and murderers and arrive at anarchism without even realizing it.

    Now I ask you a simple question – how can you, in good conscience, condone the murder of civilians in the ME and elsewhere while providing the funds in the form of taxes to the war machine that is at the very heart of the US empire?

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Dutch
  132. Smith says:

    The fact you were confused by that means you are absolute clueless about modern culture or even what the young chink thinks or likes.

    If the USA is the western “cultural superpower” then Japan, not China, is the eastern “cultural superpower” that has influences in every knots and crannies of modern life, with a very strong and pervasive “otaku-culture” that is relatively popular among many demographics in nearly every countries in the world, and yes, this culture is longer lasting than something superficial like K-pop.

    Of course China is looking to change this by boosting their own cultural exports, but let’s see how they successfully they are, meanwhile Japan is getting little by little poorer since the fall of their economic miracle and they can’t keep this up forever.

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  133. @RoatanBill

    This may surprised you but I don’t disagree with the flaws you ascribed to the current govts of the world. But you also don’t offer any alternative. And no, an idea is not an alternative. You need to show that it works, not just on paper or in your head.

    But democide has been happening since humans formed tribes. It might end when the entire earth forms a singular govt. I personally wouldn’t bet on it. But what makes you think deaths of that nature would end under anarchism? It might no longer be nations killing each other, it would be millions of 1 v 1s, family vs family, town vs town.

    If tax was fair, I wouldn’t mind it. My problem with tax right now is how it takes a huge chunk from the middle class, and the billionaires pays zero. No matter the nature of tax, it is still needed for the govt to function, for public services to function.

    Yea, every person disagreeing with you must be stupid. Lol. Distance your self? Where would you go? You want to end up like the native Americans and get genocided the moment you meet a more organized country or race?

    The answer to your question is do I have a choice? I fully accept that I am partly responsible. I am not one of the epic retards who thinks the actions of my govt is separate from the people. But the people is completely without recourse though. Even month long riots doesn’t stop the war machine.

    • Replies: @Kali
  134. @Astuteobservor II

    Pretty complicated but I will try my best to make you understand the logical behind the Vietnamese Anti-China perspective for you.

    First, read this for warm up:

    Second, historically (get over it does not equal forget it):

    China (Chinese Elite) still has the unhealthy obsession on claim Vietnam back to ‘mother China’.

    China (or I should correctly call ‘The Middle Kingdom’) never let Vietnam alone since the 10 century at least.

    Funding Mujahideen and Polpot during 1980s.

    Invading Vietnam in 1979 (don’t try to use the conspiracy Vietnam want to invaded the whole South East Asia so hero ‘The Middle Kingdom’ come to save them, what a joke!).

    Finally, today:

    Still lie about Pham Van Dong Letter.

    Look again the dash line. How ridiculous and insane it is.

    South China Sea territory is not historically territory of ‘The Middle Kingdom’ anymore, it is disputed area and only strong and winner have right to claim. ‘The Middle Kingdom’ must be honest about their true agenda on SCS like oil, gas, military and etc., and ‘The Middle Kingdom’ must have seriously discussion with its neighbors on how to have fair share on SCS.

    Sinking our fisher boat and then blame those victim instead. What a bunch of liar and coward! I will respect ‘The Middle Kingdom’ more if they have gut to say something like that ‘you guys go to our seized area so we sink you’.

    ‘The Middle Kingdom’ even try to ban Vietnam oil harvest in Vietnam own EEZ.

    My previous comment also describe my hate and distrust on China too

    ’The Middle Kingdom’ originally is not a name of a country but this is a theory that Han is the center of the world and other races, ethnics outside ‘The Middle Kingdom’ is inferior. In other word, this is Han Supremacist or Great Han Ideology.

    • Troll: d dan
  135. @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    You need to summarize the points you want to use from the saker article, simply linking = you have no clue.

    History. Not forgetting it doesn’t = hate China.

    I think you are 100% wrong on China wanting to conquer Vietnam or any of it’s neighbors right now.

    That is what empires do, expand when they can. It is just how the world works. All the way till ww2.
    It behaves like any other empire. You actually should be thankful that the old Chinese didn’t do in Vietnam what the Americans did to the natives Americans.

    SCS. First you talk about only the strong can claim it. It was historically China’s, not anymore, because you said so. Then you talk about sharing it. Just FYI, that is a contradiction. You are all over the place and confused here.

    If you are talking about the eez of the claimed islands, it is disputed territory. Relates to the above point.

    Whether you like it or not, the middle kingdom was the most advanced country in Asia till the Europeans showed up. That is not any ism but the truth. It was probably the most advanced nation till the first industrial revolution.

    My conclusion, you are very emotional when it comes to China. You need to figure out why. And no, it isn’t logical.

  136. @Smith

    Japan has manga and anime. SK has kpop, TV shows, and movies.

    SK is actually the undisputed culture power in Asia right now.

    For the Chinese. They got some high ranking TV dramas. Mostly shit movies. Pop culture is pretty bad but they got some superb, amazing even, singers. Some of the uploads I watch on YouTube is simply incredible.

    My 2c.

  137. d dan says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    “My conclusion, you are very emotional when it comes to China. You need to figure out why. And no, it isn’t logical.”

    You are quite right. He is emotional, not logical, and quite ignorant of Chinese (ancient and recent) history. I posted a comment in his original linked “thesaker” article, pointing out several factual errors and rebuttal but somehow the comment was censored by “thesaker” (probably because my comment contained some words like “stupid” or “idiotic”, etc. LOL)

    With regards to his other crazy claims, I have a series of further exchanges with him sometime ago:

    For example, on the issue that “China wanting to conquer Vietnam or any of it’s neighbors”, the following is my rebuttal:

    “In order to cover a crackpot theory, you have to come up with an even bigger crackpot theory that China wanted to conquer the entire South East Asia… A truely gigantic hegemonic project that they didn’t even bother to do when China was much more powerful and other nations much weaker. (like in Ming’s Zheng He fleet)…

    Let’s compare your claim of China’s wanting “more power with more land, resources” with historical FACTS – events that DID actually happen. When PRC was founded in 1949, it had unsettled boundary in borders with every neighbor… Look at what M. Taylor Fravel from MIT says [2]:

    “China gave 17 substantial concessions in 23 disputes active since 1949, often agreeing to accept less than half of the territory being disputed. In 15 disputes, the compromise created conditions for a final territorial settlement through bilateral agreement.” [2]

    In the case of North Korea, for example, China gave up to 70% of disputed land to North Korea. Although most China’s neighbors were/are small and weak countries, there were cases where China gave up to 90% of the disputed land to the other party. How could this be a nation that wants “more power with more land, resources”?….

    Ref: [2] “Strong Borders, Secure Nation: Cooperation and Conflict in China’s Territorial Disputes”, by M. Taylor Fravel (2008), Princeton: Princeton University Press.”

    In other words, he is trolling with totally debunked ideas.

  138. anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Vietnam didn’t do too badly. Its aggression against Thailand, Myanmar, Cambodia, and Laos has expanded its territory quite a bit. Without China’s intervention, Vietnam probably would have annexed more land from its neighbors. And China wasn’t always the big boy on the block, it was defeated and conquered by people from the north of China many times. Somehow some Vietnamese think their country is so spectacularly unique that it could have avoided any conflict with its neighbors since its birth.

  139. @Astuteobservor II

    No, you wrong, sir.

    My hate and distrust for China is the result of China current behavior. If China does not have imperialism and opportunism right now, then I just being skeptical and distrust on China, not hate.

    If you read The Saker report, you will find out that Conical Hat is a local Vietnamese. I have clues on what I say but I just try my best to simplify what I said by give the link to warm you up what I try to says. Based on what you said about the Saker Link, I assume that you don’t even read this to warm up the idea what I try to say.

    I hope I’m wrong about ‘China want to conquer Vietnam’ but based on their behavior on the SCS and their crook behavior right now, I am truly skeptical about this very much.

    That is what empires do, expand when they can. It is just how the world works. All the way till ww2.
    It behaves like any other empire. You actually should be thankful that the old Chinese didn’t do in Vietnam what the Americans did to the natives Americans.

    Do you know that we Vietnamese repel against those Chinese Dynasties many times? What you said is very emotional here, sir. The Qing Dynasty had genocide the Dzungar, and the Chinese would do the same thing Vietnamese too if Emperor Quang Trung of Tay Son Dynasty failed to repel the Qing. I suggest you should not go full ‘whataboutit-ism’.

    Look at the map here:

    See Vietnamese EEZ, China does not have any right to go inside our EEZ, ok? I suggest you should not change ‘Vietnamese EEZ’ to ‘disputed territory’. Look at the Chinese Dash Line here, you see how ridiculous it is?

    You can’t even prove that I’m wrong about the immoral and coward of Chinese Coast Guard in disputed area like Sinking Vietnamese Fishing Boats then blame the victim like ‘Vietnamese (wood!!) boat ram Chinese Coast Guard. Your ‘disputed area’ argument is strawman argument and literally being sycophant to China.

    This is today, ok? Thousand years ago is irrelevant and China so-called historical claim is their own imagine. China must follow the today rule, not historical, nobody care, not only Vietnamese but also other SEA countries too.

    The Middle Kingdom theory, like what I describe, is about Chinese arrogant and refused to learned other culture, considered themselves like the descendant of Heaven (Mandate of Heaven) and in other word, Han Supremacist. Yes, I know Han was truly advance in the past but so what, Han invented those gun powder, compass, paper, etc. but Han still failed to those ‘Northern Barbaric’ like Mongol and European still go ahead China in long term. This is argument:

    I think I am very logical and skeptical, sir. You are being emotion here, based on your comment.

    By the way, few things to be skeptical on China: (Minute 12-14 on China and US)

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  140. Anon99 says:

    You mean access like this?

    You’ve been ingesting too much MSM.

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
  141. @AaronB

    Uh, no. China is decoupling from the US, and the US only. You wish to isolate China and you assume that the rest of the world will necessarily follow the US. I suggest to you that will not happen.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  142. @d dan

    You are the emotional one here, not me. Your debunk to my explain is nothing more than your own belief and ideal. I had explained why I cannot agree with your ‘debunk’ and you don’t even try to spend sometime into the Vietnamese website I link to you with any translate software.

    You seem love call anyone who you cannot brainwash to love China troll. No worry, I don’t get offend, I laugh right now by your ‘clown’ behavior here. You know what? Compare to ‘Smith’, ‘Smith’ is more brutal honest than you despite the fact how toxic he is, you are the true definition of a ‘keyboard hero’, ‘poisonous fang snake’, and ‘troll’ by your action here.

    I will friendly remind you who you truly are here, troll:

    Commenter ‘Anaam’ smack your ass:

    This is what I truly think about you right now (I intend to use the scene from movie ‘Gamer (2009)’ this for ‘Smith’ incase if he has other mental illness behavior but you are deserved this more than him, keyboard hero):

    • Troll: d dan
    • Replies: @Anon
  143. Anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    Come on, Vietnamese can’t even make up their mind about a Chinese guy whether he was a founder of Vietnam or a foreign invader. Talk about emotional baggage. You don’t even have your own written language. You are using a language that was pushed to you by European missionaries. Maybe you are better off reverting back to using Chinese. LOL. Hating China has to be a larger part of your national identity, otherwise you’re just subgroup of Chinese, culturally and genetically.ệu_dynasty

    Meanwhile, Vietnamese historians have struggled with the issue of whether to regard the Triệu heroically as founders of Vietnam, or to denounce them as foreign invaders. For centuries afterward, Triệu Đà was a folk hero among the Viets, and was remembered for standing up to the Han Empire.[8] After Lý Bí drove the Chinese out of northern Vietnam, he proclaimed himself “emperor of Nam Việt” (Nam Việt đế) in 544, thus identifying his state as a revival of the Trieu, despite obvious differences in terms of location and ethnic makeup.[9] In the thirteenth century, Lê Văn Hưu wrote a history of Vietnam that used the Triệu as its starting point, with Triệu Đà receiving glowing praise as Vietnam’s first emperor.[4] In the 18th century, Ngô Thì Sĩ reevaluated Triệu Đà as a foreign invader.[4] Under the Nguyễn Dynasty, Triệu Đà continued to receive high praise, although it was acknowledged that the original Nam Việt was not in fact a Vietnamese state.[4] The current Communist government of Vietnam portrays Triệu Đà negatively as a foreign invader who vanquished Vietnam’s heroic King An Dương despite there is a campaign to reconsider the role of Zhao Tuo due to tensions rising between Vietnam and China.[4] Modern Vietnamese are descended from the ancient Yue of northern Vietnam and western Guangdong, according to Peter Bellwood.[10]

  144. AnonCN says:

    It’s a very arguable question in China whether Tik-Tok is a Chinese company.
    The owner Zhang Yiming must have been negotiating with Bill Gates for some deals way before Trump’s ban, and he also made decision to move the HQ out from China to UK. The majority high-level management team in Byte-Dance (mother company of Tik-Tok) hold a foreign passport, they are at least dual-nationality in secret, which is not acceptable for China.
    Zhang Yiming himself said Tik-Tok is a global company, as if global is already a real thing with a global government global constitution global military in real existence. He fall into the illusion and believed in globalism while he doesn’t belong to any global power to back him up. Such people have no nation, no race, no loyal. They do have money, enough of money for them to grow some arrogance and ignore many other things that matter to common people. Now Trump give him a lesson. Many others in China will also learn the lesson.
    Nation is real, global is fake. Lost you nation, you are Jews before WWII.
    Such kind of nationless Tik-Tok doesn’t worth CCP the trouble. While the lesson is much valuable to other Chinese. Thanks to Trump, again.
    As a product of 4G era, just an app for fun. Not some hard science high tech, TT destined to beat some products from 3G era, e.g. Facebook, also destined to lose to some 5G era product in the future. With the unbeatable scale and 5G infrastructure support (70% of the world’s 5G towers will be located in China end of 2020), China will offer the world some real stuff apps later.

    Being lazy cozy and avoid troubles is human nature. CCP, whatever party it is, is made of human.
    UNZ doesn’t worthy the trouble for CCP to ban it. Why? To ban any site, you need to notice the site, and do the job. There are two kinds of websites that will be banned by CCP.
    1. ‘pure evil’, e.g. porn site
    2. very big and influential site, yet with its negative side (‘evil part’) totally out of control of CCP.
    UNZ does not belong to these two categories. UNZ is too small, language barrier is already the biggest ban for such sites, so it will not be banned again.

    Your private information on TT matters the most to TT, but still it doesn’t worthy the trouble for CCP. Why?
    1. if you are special, TT is far from enough for CCP to do anything onto you.
    2. if you are common guy, common shit information is too much, too overloading and energy consuming for CCP, while you are not the primary focus for CCP, Chinese people are, which producing overloading shit information already for CCP.
    3. Wanna eat pork, you raise hogs and pigs. Wanna some level of efficient management on people? You develop more sophistic system and technologies. Why the hurry poison the little boars like TT when you don’t have any decent fodder and hoggery?
    I see many people at Douyin/Chinese sites trolling for Taiwan, for Japan, for US, for whatever anti-China, CCP do nothing to them, still raising them. Such trolling may develop to tumor or cancer to CCP, or restrained by antibody patriot . Doesn’t worthy the trouble for CCP, not yet.

    Many people in the west have the illusion that their so called ‘privacy’ really matters to others. Maybe its because they are told since childhood that they are really special.
    Fact: majority people are common guy. Who cares you unless those who wants to make money out of you?
    As tech and science evolves, it’s won’t be a world of individuals VS supervision society.
    It will be an A supervision society VS supervision society B.
    Pessimist would claim no difference between A & B and grow to be illusionist for some individual freedom world, while optimist would claim A as better one and work hard to built a better A. Whether the better A is finally realized does not matter, compare to the process that humans still believe in something and work for it.

    Here I saw that some lunatic Vietnamese are imagine that China would invade Vietnam.
    Do you even know what does invade mean for China?
    Invade=stay for good to govern the place and assimilate the people. That’s immense responsibility and trouble. So it’s possible that China might beat you(Vietnam) again, but it’s not a choice for China to invade you.
    China is only interested in invade Taiwan, the rebellion province. We have huge interests there and people living there can be easily assimilated without much trouble. As for other places, if it’s uninhabited neighbor land you would like to offer without trouble, then OK, China can take it.
    Otherwise, in your dream! CCP have suffered enough in the mission of lift the people out of poverty. Why the trouble for some random guy who is not even Chinese?
    Again, you don’t worth the trouble.
    For SCS, we are taking it, we will take it. Peacefully as much as we can, not peacefully when it’s needed. It’s uninhabited sea, with artificial islands. It’s our door way, it’s trouble worthy, no guilt at all.
    You don’t respect my history, I don’t respect your feelings. Totally fair. Let power talk.
    No one shall stop us, no one could, no one would. Forget 2016 July SCS? You count on US to bleed for you? US is counting on you to bleed for US. While China is counting on Chinese to bleed for China. See the difference here? It’s possible that no one bleeds.
    Only a matter of time. You can cry, you can curse. Do whatever you want, make it big, make it real, even better, so we will have enough new reasons to respond for and realize our plan even faster.
    You can also wait & wait & wait & wait and try it again when China declines again, as you have done before, no hard feelings, China will take it back when she rise again. No surprise.

  145. Kali says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    what makes you think deaths of that nature would end under anarchism?

    Because Anarchy is “Self Rule”. Crucially, therefore, Anarchy REQUIRES that one KNOW oneself.

    And so the journey inward begins – very often with realising what one is not. I am not my name, for example. I am not my job/career/marital status… etc. Once these many layers have been stripped away one begins to explore and understand what is left.

    Once one has delved all the way inside to discover ones inherrent nature, one is automatically peaceful, loving, empathic, cooperative… because that is our inherrent nature

    Ealier, to RoatanBill, you asked “who makes the rules?” The answer is that you do! And you make those rules for yourself, in accordance with your true nature.

    To illustrate, I don’t require rules/laws telling me not to kill, because it is not in my nature to kill.
    Equally, any rule/law which requires me to kill (conscription for example) goes against my nature and I will not do that.

    In coming to truly Know Yourself, you will find ALL of the answers you seek. But no-one can do it for you. Anarchy requires individual effort and it doesn’the come with an instruction manual.
    Philosophy, not ideology, in action.

    I hope this helps.


    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  146. @Anon

    I believe I have told anybody here many times that the ancient time does not matter right now. Since the 10th century, we Vietnamese does not accept to become China, so what your point. If you truly Chinese, then you will find out that the Nam Việt and Triệu Đà topic is a very controversy historical details between China and Vietnam because this thing combine with our very old version of Triệu Đà, Nam Việt and Bách Việt (Hundred Yue, Yue in Chinese Spell Tongue), will prove that the Liangguang (Guangdong, Guangxi, and Hainan island) is belong to the ancient kingdom/country Bách Việt, our original and ancient birthplace of we Việt. This is also reason why Vietnamese today still refer themselves as Việt, our Northern Vietnamese is the last Việt state of Bách Việt Kingdom, Âu Lạc.

    Let me summarize:


    1. The myth “Trọng Thủy and Mỵ Châu” is possible a fake/artificial myth to censored the Bách Việt History which is made by Vietnamese Leader due to the ‘fear on Big Brother The Middle Kingdom’.

    2. Records of the Grand Historian (Sử Ký Tư Ma Thiên/太史公書) does not mention Trọng Thủy, who is supported the son of Triệu Đà, and mention Triệu Đà only like Trọng Thủy was not exist.

    3. The Northern Ethnic always beat the Southern Ethnic, history around the world had proved, Han Success conquered the large part of Bai Yue.

    4. The word ‘Han’ is more problematic and dubious than the word ‘Viet’.

    5. True Original of The Middle Kingdom (The Black Area is Han and Hunnu/Hsiung-nu):

    6. Hồ Chí Minh refers Triệu Đà and Nam Việt is a part of Vietnamese/Việt country, not Chinese in his poem History of Our County (Lịch Sử Nước Ta):

    Vietnamese (part of the poem)
    Triệu Đà là vị hiền quân,
    Quốc danh Nam Việt trị dân năm đời.

    Roughly Translate English:
    Triệu Đà is a Good Emperor,
    The name Nam Việt rule people five generations.

    7. Even Wikipedia on Bách Việt (Bai Yue) refer this:

    The Baiyue, Hundred Yue, or simply Yue, were various non-Han Chinese ethnic groups who inhabited the regions of Southern China to Northern Vietnam between the first millennium BC and the first millennium AD.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7] They were known for their short hair, body tattoos, fine swords, and naval prowess.

    Finally, I never want to link the blog of the Saigon Puppet but the person had done a great job on researching Bách Việt, others is bunch of ‘muh evil commie’ bullshit:

    By the way, I think you are the same Anon who keep following since the February, if you are not then my apologize for my paranoid. I suggest you should take a nickname.

    • Replies: @Menes
  147. @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    You are still very emotional.

    Chill, drink a cold beer. Vietnam is safe. So, enjoy life.

    • Agree: d dan, showmethereal
  148. @Kali

    Still doesn’t solve the problem of when Indians met the Europeans.

    Or when my rules conflicts with yours.

    And to your point about not needing laws to tell people not to kill. Would you like to ask that question of the family members of murder victims? I am reasonably sure that in an anarchic state the rates would sky rocket.

    I honestly don’t see it working outside of the books and chatrooms.

    • Replies: @Kali
  149. @AnonCN

    Holy shit, if true tik tok has been collecting and doing AI research in China and now taking the fruits of it’s labor over the Chinese firewall.

    Wasn’t this precisely why Facebook n Google wasn’t allowed to do, take Chinese data out of the country.

    This is huge.

    • Replies: @AnonCN
  150. @Astuteobservor II

    No, you are the emotional, I afraid. I am truly logical, I believe.

    I appreciate your effort to convince me that China is good guys right. However, set aside from the current event right now, I afraid that China is truly distrust to us, Vietnamese by its imperialism and opportunism nature in the cold war.

    China is ‘The Boy Who Cried Wolf’.

    You too, enjoy your life and be safe.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @AnonCN
  151. @AnonCN

    Lady and Gentlement,

    This is an example of Chinese Imperialism, Great Han Ideology, how violent Chinese will be if they want and how ‘The road to hell is paved with good intentions’ works.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  152. Dutch says:

    Chinese ‘innovation and invention’. When you hear someone crowing this narrative you can stop listening. EVERYTHING China has came from us, was stolen from us or copied from us. Period. Name one new invention or technology completely unique to the Chinese. There isn’t one, besides maybe COVID bat soup. It was bad enough when they were copying us and ignoring patents. Now they have unleashed our own technologies on us in weaponized form and everyone wants to have a pity party for them. Oh such a pity that WeChat was banned. It brought us uncensored news while our platforms censor news. Oh the humanity. We invented apps and smartphones and GPS did we not? What claim do they have on any of it? And WTF you think they do in China? You haven’t even seen censorship like they have in China. This is not some freedom movement by the Chinese to free us from news suppression. They do it tenfold. They censor Google more than it already is, they censor FB more than it already is. The crocodile tears don’t work. Yeah we spy. Tough shit. You want our technology, our computers, our nuclear tech, we’re gonna keep an eye on what you’re doing, sorry. They’re BORROWING these things. And no sooner did they borrow them they set about copying them, then selling them as their own, at the cost of revenues to our companies. How can any thinking person defend this. Do you loan your power tools to your neighbor so he can build a guillotine to put your head in? Would you EVER FUCKING DO THIS? Because this is the reality, not some babe in the woods libertarian principle argument. The world plays dirty. We play dirty. Grow up and accept that reality is not just a bunch of Innocents being bullied by America. China is horrible. They do human experiments on prisoners. They rape and pillage and enslave Ughurs, Tibetans, etc. They censor everything, they spy on their own people, score them then disappear them when their scores drop too far. To have the US and China on some equal footing in your mind is the ultimate in self delusion. They want to destroy us. It’s been a published state plan for decades. And they’re trying to do it with OUR stuff. If you love China so much, do what they do and make a US version of WeChat the same way they made Soogol (their ripoff carbon copy Google, before real Google made them a censored version). It’s popularity is already proven. It’s revenue potential has already been proven. Why aren’t you doing this? You could be billionaires then donate all your money to poor downtrodden China. Aren’t you capitalists? Aren’t you productive Libertarians? So why don’t you? Because you’re all just a bunch of do nothing complainers that’s why. And it’s exactly why your petty gripes about the evil US bullying poor China are equally stupid and nonsensical. They’re just think veiled complaints about the failure that is your life. Move to China, become the same disgruntled Chinese citizen, then try and cry all your petty complaints about their government like you’ve done with ours. And see what happens. Maybe while they’re extracting your still living organs from you in the back of a van, you’ll get what a blessing it is to be an American. I never forgot.

  153. d dan says:

    “The majority high-level management team in Byte-Dance (mother company of Tik-Tok) hold a foreign passport, they are at least dual-nationality in secret, which is not acceptable for China.”

    Do you know if Zhang Yiming himself is holding a foreign passport?

    “Such kind of nationless Tik-Tok doesn’t worth CCP the trouble. “

    While I agree TT is not worth the trouble for CCP to save it (who cares whether Zhang get a few billions less), but it is the principle and rules that China would and should try to defend. Trump is obviously violating WTO rules, and if China keep quiet, Trump wins.

    I heard China is bringing up TT as a discussion item for the next round of trade talk. (Aug 15?).

    “Your private information on TT matters the most to TT, but still it doesn’t worthy the trouble for CCP. Why?”

    The immediate values of the private info on TT is for commercial companies (e.g. competitors like Facebook, advertising companies, financial companies, etc.) So, there are tremendous values in it. US government also has an obsession in collecting vast amount of useful as well as not so useful info – so it is projecting its own behaviors and desires on China.

    “You can also wait & wait & wait & wait and try it again when China declines again…”

    LOL. Quite true.

    • Replies: @AnonCN
  154. Dutch says:

    Bummer you missed your chance to live out your principles in CHAZ. It was paradise you know…

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  155. @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    I am not cheering for any side. But that to you it seems is the same as on the Chinese side.

    Go have a cold beer. It will help.

  156. @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    No, that is the Chinese version of you. He is basically acting just like you, reacting to your comment the same way.

  157. @Dutch

    It’s a shame that to most people, the word anarchy and its derivatives generally means violence, chaos and all manner of negative connotation.

    If you check a dictionary definition you’ll also find a lesser known variant. The language has been purposely mangled to make sure those most easily fooled will never examine anarchism for what it really stands for.

    Your snide remark shows your lack of understanding for what the philosophy of anarchism is all about. You should educate yourself so you look less of a fool in the future.

  158. anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    I was reading some internet comments after “Red Dawn” was released. ( not the original one with Russians, the remake with North Koreans).

    A lot of those comments were full of gooks this, gooks that, we’ve got to kill gooks. Some Americans genuinely thought North Koreans would invade the US.

    Some people are just more likely than others to become emotional about this kind of things.

  159. d dan says:

    “Name one new invention or technology completely unique to the Chinese.”

    The porcelain that holds your food everyday you eat your meal. The paper-money that you use every time you buy your grocery. The toothbrush that you need to clean your teeth every morning. The tea that you consume in every break you enjoy. The paper that cleans your arse every time you empty your feces in toilet – like what you are doing here in public.

  160. @Astuteobservor II

    No, you are the one need cold beer, not me. Especially you cannot convince that China today is good guys and your ‘whataboutit-ism’.

    I never think about ‘killing Chinese’. Hate does not mean I want to kill someone else. I in fact pray to heaven and earth that no war between Vietnam and China. I hope two country can get along in the future.

    And I pretty sure to you that I’m not Chinese version of ‘AnonCN’. No worry.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  161. @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    Echo chamber is what you seek.

    Like I originally pointed out. Reddit is the perfect place for you. Unz is full of anons like me that will get under your skin. Reddit is full bots and mods that will cater to your emotional anti china needs.

  162. @Astuteobservor II

    I also hope you find your ‘spare’ echo chamber too. No worry, you guys will never go ‘under’ my skin.

    Good Luck.

  163. AnonCN says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    CCP and Chinese people is watching Zhang Yiming. He can take away his tech (which is originally built on Chinese data), take away the TT HQ to please his global market, totally OK for China, but if he take away the Chinese data, he will face consequences and lose his domestic market, which is the biggest share of his current earnings.
    No hurry to make any judgement on him yet. Give him more chances, he is learning along with many other Chinese.

  164. AnonCN says:
    @d dan

    Don’t know about Zhang, only his peers in Byte Dance. But I don’t mind assume him the same.
    Doesn’t matter much as the reality is nationalism is back, fence sitter people like Zhang will also find their way back. They have to.

  165. AnonCN says:
    @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    What do you expect? What should China do for you? Give up SCS to Vietnam because Chinese history and Chinese interest are totally worthless for Vietnam? Even more, give up Guangdong province and Guangxi province to Vietnam as some illusionary Vietnamese like you is plotting for Chinese land based on some twisted history? Do you even know that since you people gave up your original writing that you learned from China and you pick up alphabetic writing from Europe, you lost some authentic history of your own and make up many new history to fit your narrative? Never mind, we don’t care much your wild dreams as long as you don’t take any real actions.

    What Chinese imperialism? Devalue your worthiness to get a real invasion as you are unworthy people to be governed? You may see this as imperialist supper arrogance, but we see that as valuable experience learn from history: don’t waste your energy on unworthy land unworthy people, it will consume you, no gains.

    Not only your people is unworthy of any trouble for the governance responsibilities, but also your country unworthy for any trust or distrust judgement of imperialism or opportunism or whatever-ism. You are not on our top list of concerns! We can bare the price to somehow ignore you and make no judgement about you until the day you take real actions to bite us or join us. We would treat you as a neutral business pal as long as you don’t bite us or join us. You don’t worthy our special attention because we have too many important things to care for.
    Please stop being such a narcissist and make it all about yourself.
    Isn’t this a post about Huawei Tik-Tok and Wechat? Why do you have to show up to hijack it all about SCS and Vietnam curse? Whatever post & content about China, you just have to jump up to cry for Vietnam, don’t you?

    Do I piss you off? I sound so arrogant to you. Sorry, I am just being forthright.
    I’d rather US consider China a neutral business pal unworthy of any kind of extra special attentions, and get occupied by other important concerns like 911 and BLM. So I can’t really feel your emotions.

    There are pragmatic values in whataboutism.
    Without coordinates, we human beings don’t know where we stand.
    Blindly deny whataboutism, you have no where to go but a self-cheating Utopia to dream for.
    Be pragmatic, it helps.
    Or be a dreamer, return the land you occupied from your small weak neighbor Cambodia and offer a port city to your poor inland neighbor Laos. Oops, you don’t care their feelings?
    Actions speak louder than words, you go first and show us that Utopia is real, we will decide later whether we shall follow your noble high moral model.

    • Agree: showmethereal
  166. Ron Unz says:

    EVERYTHING China has came from us, was stolen from us or copied from us. Period. Name one new invention or technology completely unique to the Chinese.

    Well, let me quote from my own article:

    Even a century ago, near the nadir of China’s later weakness and decay, some of America’s foremost public intellectuals, such as Edward A. Ross and Lothrop Stoddard, boldly predicted the forthcoming restoration of the Chinese nation to global influence, the former with equanimity and the latter with serious concern. Indeed, Stoddard argued that only three major inventions effectively separated the world of classical antiquity from that of 18th-century Europe—gunpowder, the mariner’s compass, and the printing press. All three seem to have first appeared in China, though for various social, political, and ideological reasons, none were properly implemented.

    Just in case you’ve never heard of Lothrop Stoddard, you might want to Google his name. He wasn’t exactly a SJW…

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
  167. @AnonCN

    I suggest you stop your rambling because your rambling is just confirm my distrust and hate on Chinese. I am in fact believe there are many Chinese like you does not want to wage the war against Vietnam. But the Chinese elite is un-trust.

    Vietnam never bite China first, China was the one bite first. Remember the story ‘The Boy Who Cried Wolf’ and China is that boy. China is always the one who bullied Vietnam, not Vietnam, ok? Update your own information.

    I never said that I want you Chinese returned Guangdong and Guangxi to Vietnam. I said that Guangdong, Guangxi, and Hainan Island is belong to our ancestor, Bách Việt (Bai Yue). But so what? The area is rightfully belong to The Middle King rightfully. You may mistake me with some delusional Vietnamese and I’m not one of them.

    I am truly glad to see that you beat some sense to those Sinophilia and Sino-sycophant like d dan, the people like that is truly toxic to China, believe me.

    I believe SCS had enough space to share each other. Simple: Your government should be honest about China true agenda on SCS instead go around to bullied others countries blame the victim. China Government want to be friend to Vietnam to against the Anglo-Zionism, then try to prove first (may be they should stop the stupid-historical claim on China).

    You have right to be bias on your own country China but I also have right to be bias on my country Vietnam, deal with this.

    I don’t get offend by what you said, I laugh at your oversensitive attitude.

  168. Erebus says:

    No the contention in the western media was that the Chinese government was instructing people to discriminate.

    I hadn’t come across that, and Larry’s statement made no mention of it.

    In fact, the opposite was the case. The discrimination had grown to the point that the govt felt compelled to issue a statement. That the blacks in Guangzhou’s “Little Africa” (aka: Africa Town) saw more of it than Westerners and other Asians is probably not controversial.

    Much of the discrimination was trivial, even silly like not getting in an elevator if there was a foreigner inside. Still see some of that, mostly from old folks.

  169. @Dutch

    You asked about Chinese inventions. This topic occupies perhaps two of the fifty empty pages in our history book.

  170. Kali says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    I think you may have missed the key point I was making, Astuteobserver.

    By and large, the human is unconscious, and easily driven by external forces. The imperative, “know yourself”, leads one on an inward journey wherein one discovers many unconscious motivations for acts which one would not commit in consciousness.

    In peeling away the layers of what one is not, one comes to know ones true nature. And truly, that nature is Compassion.

    But until and unless you grasp the meaning of these words and begin to examine your own interior, I might as well be writing in a language unknown to you.


    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    , @Menes
  171. Anonymous[428] • Disclaimer says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    I really don’t get where the stereotype of “the Chinese population as a bunch of self-censoring automaton drones, eyes darting around the room in fear of surveillance technology which might report to some remote database”, comes from.

    I recently lived in China (as a Westerner), and as I understand it, there is a vanishingly tiny number of topics actually censored, mostly to do with terrorism, criminal activity, or violently overthrowing the state. Every thing else was open for debate and discussion.

    Ideas flowed not only freely, but in great abundance and very quickly. Science and technology and their socio-economic-political implications, historical questions, alternate economic theories, and even wild (conspiracy) concepts – all were openly debated. People could express their disgust at corruption and abuse, and often did without fear.

    I am now beginning to see the truth of the statement (probably coined by some disgusted American): “In China, you cannot change the government, but you CAN change policy. In the U.S., you can change the government, but you CANNOT change policy”.

    Who actually has the more dynamic society?

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Astuteobservor II
  172. Anonymous[428] • Disclaimer says:


  173. Anonymous[428] • Disclaimer says:

    I suggest to you that will not happen.

    Absolutely agreed, 100%.

    It is the United States, and ONLY the United States, that is “decoupling” from China.

    China is in no way averse to any contact or dealing with the United States, nor anyone else.

    I find it EXTREMELY delusional of some Americans to think that China or the Chinese are going to fall into the trap of disengaging with the wider world and by default ceding it to the United States. No, absolutely not.

    People in China are already decided on this matter. Reform and Opening Up – shall continue and accelerate.

    The United States will close itself to China, but China will pick and choose which aspects of the United States it will exclude. Chinese society does not hesitate to learn and improve upon any concept of American life or society it so chooses.

    It is the American mind that is closing; the Chinese mind continues to develop apace.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
  174. Anonymous[428] • Disclaimer says:

    The South China Sea is very simple, only the details are complex.

    But the matter is straightforward. It’s clear who owns land, but water is open to argument. The South China Sea is water, not land.

    Two men have a disagreement, so they argue, they even scream. As long as no one throws a punch, as long as no one attacks, let them scream for the next 1000 years. Who cares?

    You say you own this valuable thing, I say I own it. You sit on it, and I also sit on it. We can continue like this forever, nothing’s wrong, no war, no emotions. We can sit there forever.

    No one owns that thing, forever.

    As long as nobody gets impatient or gets angry, there is no problem. IF someone attacks, then that person is the aggressor. As long as we’re just shouting, what does it matter?

    That is the SCS.

  175. d dan says:

    “I am now beginning to see the truth of the statement (probably coined by some disgusted American): “In China, you cannot change the government, but you CAN change policy. In the U.S., you can change the government, but you CANNOT change policy”. “

    Very true. US political system is ossified. It is impossible to be reformed without hurting the special interests (wall street, military, global tech, identity groups, elite media,…) that kidnapped the country. The Constitution ensures that it is impossible to be amended – hence the downward spiral continues. The propaganda about nationalism, racial differences, democracy and the demonization of China/Russia/Iran… keep the citizens occupied, divided, and feel “exceptional”. That ensures any real efforts of reforms entailing chipping away any special interests will fail miserably.

    China, on the hand, has been very agile and flexible in its political reforms. The Xi’s era is so different than Jiang’s era, which was itself totally different from Deng’s and Mao’s times. China amended its Constitutions multiple times in the last few decades, to suit the changing environments. It works diligently to ensure no special interests groups kidnap and override the country’s interests. It carefully dispenses away with ideologies, sloganeering and deliberately looks for real results.

    China’s long history actually offers several examples of the stage where US currently exists – strong and dying nations/dynasties screaming to get out from the hole that they dug themselves into. Courageous reformers sought all available methods for renaissance – power re-balancing, financial reorganizations, military adventures, technological innovations, new educations, imports of foreign talents/techniques/systems, etc. Unfortunately, most of them failed, although one (Qin empire) managed to succeed beyond anyone’s expectation.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @OzGuy
  176. @Kali

    Are you saying every human is inherently good? That if we take away some imaginary layers which you failed to identify, that all humans are full of compassion?

    Because if that is what you are insinuating, then you are crazy and that is that.

    • Replies: @Kali
  177. @Erebus

    From what I have read on the Chinese net. It was mostly fueled by videos of foreigners not following the rules during the covid quarantine. With social media, those videos went viral. That fueled some of the cries for deportation of foreigners who doesn’t follow rules.

    That is that.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  178. @Anonymous

    I would go a step further.

    In the USA, you cannot change the govt and policy.

    Swapping the two parties is not changing the govt.

  179. America blames huawei for what Google does for a living, placing hardware backdoors in billions of mobile phones around the world:

    Over one BILLION Android phones may be at risk of 400 ‘Achilles’ vulnerabilities Security researches warn over one billion Android phones are at risk of becoming a spying tool for hackers.

    The team found 400 vulnerabilities in Qualcomm’s Snapdragon chips, which are staples in the smartphones.

    The flaws, collectively called ‘Achilles,’ lets cybercriminals access photos, videos, location data and other sensitive details on the handset. which let hackers turn handsets into spying tools

  180. Smith says:

    From the look of this thread, it would be funny if China BANS Tik Tok for its own national security.

  181. Erebus says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    It was mostly fueled by videos of foreigners not following the rules during the covid quarantine.

    Yes, and from what I’ve seen & heard the denizens of Guangzhou’s Little Africa were particularly brazen about it.

    Them aside, as far as I know all of the overt discrimination encountered by foreigners is related to the pandemic resurrecting the ancient fear of the unknown “other”. It was almost unknown previously, and discriminatory behaviour is now subsiding in lockstep with the pandemic. I fully expect it to disappear eventually.

  182. @Astuteobservor II

    I think we are talking about two different things. Of course they can’t fight countries expecting to force Facebook to pay taxes. That is different than nationalizing an industry or forcing Facebook to sell Whatsapp to a local company as what the US is trying to do.

    As to consequences to US actions… Does the US care? The US has suffered blowback and domestic loss of quality of life because of it’s actions… But those in power don’t care. They keep doing the same thing..

  183. @Erebus

    Oh the western media absolutely spun it as if it was the “Chinese Communist Party” that was the cause of the discrimination. Even Al Jazeera joined in with that narrative. Basically stating the Chinese government was telling people to discriminate against Africans.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  184. Erebus says:

    Basically stating the Chinese government was telling people to discriminate against Africans.

    FWIW, the Guangdong govt did mandate that anyone carrying an African passport, regardless of race or nationality, had to undergo mandatory testing. I have several very white S. African friends who got the notice and were duly tested. No holders of non-African passports had to be tested, and so there is some truth within the lie. The message that the public took from this was pretty clear.

    At least one of my friends got tested several times due to the fact that his local building mgmt in reacting to complaints from fellow residents took it upon themselves to demand that he be tested every few days despite the fact that he hadn’t left China in >1 year. After the Guangdong govt issued the anti-discrimination letter he threatened to escalate and the mgmt was forced to back down. Nevertheless, everywhere he went out of town (within Guangdong) the local authorities would demand a test as soon as he’d try to check into a hotel even though no such demand would be made of his Chinese staff that travelled with him. He started refusing those as well and eventually it died out.

    The reality is that in early Spring 2020, foreigners (particularly African foreigners) were facing some significant discrimination and that until that decree came out in mid-April they had little recourse.

    Having said all that, I do think that this is a natural pandemic response. People, particularly at the “lower end of the social spectrum” went medieval. Villagers sealed themselves, “discriminating” against neighbouring villages at the height of the pandemic by literally building berms across roads leading in/out of their village. I saw several such berms in my travels. That’s how medieval European villages protected themselves against the Black Death. I’m not really sure of what that word means any more, but I’d be hard-pressed to call that “racism”. Call it “localism”. The people you know and trust are safer than the people you don’t and therefore can’t. Once the fear embeds itself, that’s where humans go – to what they imagine is safety, and I think that’s what much of the so-called racism / discrimination was all about.

    Guangdong’s April decree is unambiguous in both its meaning and intent. It shows a clear intention to stop discriminatory behaviour, but more importantly it got immediate attention from the population. Suddenly, everything got a lot simpler (at least in Guangdong). The berms were removed, the tests stopped, behaviour changed.

    • Replies: @d dan
  185. d dan says:

    “Guangdong’s April decree is unambiguous in both its meaning and intent. It shows a clear intention to stop discriminatory behaviour, but more importantly it got immediate attention from the population.”

    Thanks for the updates. As usual, western media conflates to make things in worse possible light, e.g.

    And a U.S. Embassy security alert on Saturday said that ‘police ordered bars and restaurants not to serve clients who appear to be of African origin,’ and local officials have launched mandatory testing and self-quarantine for ‘anyone with “African contacts”.’



    A Nigerian businessman under quarantine said that “it was the police that removed me from my apartment and put me on the streets”.
    “I don’t have any problem with my landlord. He didn’t even know I had been evicted. My children slept on the streets for many days.”


    They make it difficult many people to know the true situation. Good to have you keep things straight.

  186. Menes says: • Website
    @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    Triệu Đà, Nam Việt and Bách Việt (Hundred Yue, Yue in Chinese Spell Tongue), will prove that the Liangguang (Guangdong, Guangxi, and Hainan island) is belong to the ancient kingdom/country Bách Việt, our original and ancient birthplace of we Việt. This is also reason why Vietnamese today still refer themselves as Việt, our Northern Vietnamese is the last Việt state of Bách Việt Kingdom, Âu Lạc.

    Trieu dat.

  187. Menes says: • Website

    In peeling away the layers of what one is not, one comes to know ones true nature. And truly, that nature is Compassion.

    Wrong. It’s Dispassion, also known as Detachment.

    • Replies: @Kali
  188. Half-Jap says:

    You have been too Chinese, or whatever it takes to simply believe one and not another.
    You present one item, while it is easy to see that while truthful information is quite securely controlled in the mainland, it is only difficult to access in the US. There are expats who fled China for harmless vids; imagine outsiders filming freely in such sensitive areas as Xinqian. We don’t need to tours of potemkin villages.

  189. Anon[102] • Disclaimer says:

    Regarding the TIK TOK database being monitored by the CIA for exfiltration to the CCP – if that was the CIA finding it proves diddly Squat.

    The real action always occurs with the app’s behavoir on your handset. Nothing to stop Exfiltration to the CCP directly from your handset. This includes real time signals from the mic, camera & gps, or any data retrieved from the central TT database to the handset and then forwarded out to the CCP.

    I’m disappointed the CIA overlooked the app endpoint, your handset, which they are very good at mastering themselves.

    All these Chinese Apps can also provide a security breach to permit upload of a payload, usually a screen reader, which defeats all security because once anything is dcrypted it’s then displayed on the screen.

  190. OzGuy says:
    @d dan

    Chinese meme – “cross the river by feeling the stones”, attributed to Deng Xioaping.

    So it looks like China will take small steps but have large vision. Any objective big enough will necessarily be very complicated to achieve and full of uncertainties at the start. So tactical and local implementation may show missteps and therefore easy to correct. Remember a plane is off course 90% of the time but the required adjustments are usually small and easy with constant feedback.

    US politics are divided into huge camps, viz. Left vs Right; Conservative vs Progressive; Modernist vs Post Modernist; Capitalist vs Socialism; on and on. You have to be all-in or else will be called out as traitors. Where is the space for discussions? The inability to see reality as it is without ideological filters are baked into US politics. So too the inability to be tolerant of dissenting views hence ‘safe spaces’, PC and rejection of ‘All Lives Matter’. Not a good circumstance to solve big social or political problems.

    Trump is acting as if he is president of only 51% of US citizens. For example, his early unannounced Covid-19 response authored by his SIL was abandoned because the pandemic seemed to disproportionately affect the Democratic mayors and states. He also refused to coordinate a united federal response because only New York was then in dire straits and all the southern states had been spared. Selfishly and tactically brilliant but a strategic disaster for US. Just saying.

    • Agree: showmethereal
  191. @Goddard

    there are 400,000 foreign English teachers in china, a probably a million+ white expat workers

    100,000 africans are nothing

  192. Kali says:

    The nature of God may be dispassionate.

    Non-attachment may be (is) a beneficial state of being.

    Human nature, though, is compassionate. 🙂

  193. Kali says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Because if that is what you are insinuating, then you are crazy and that is that.

    Don’t tell me, let me guess: you filtered this evaluation through a cultural lense didn’t you? 🙂

  194. Anon99 says:

    Huawei Technicians operating inside the Houston consulate used Tik-Tok videos to target individuals to foment BLM violence and insurrection

    Radio Free Asia (RFA) published an article explaining the reason that the U.S. closed China’s Consulate in Houston.

    The article stated that the U.S. has known that the staff members at the consulate were conducting suspicious activities, but, for a while, it did not take any action. The Second Department of China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA), which is the PLA’s intelligence unit, sent staff members from a large network company, with fake IDs, to China’s Consulate in Houston. Those technicians used a large video platform’s backend data to identify people who might participate in the Black Lives Matter (BLM) and ANTIFA’s protests and then created and sent them customized videos on how to organize riots and how to do promotions.

    The purpose was to “weaponize” big data technology. It delivered relevant materials precisely to those people who were most likely to participate in the protests, while other people could not even find those videos.

    RFA did not spell out the company names. A Twitter account said the technicians were from Huawei and the video platform they used to identify candidates and push videos to was TikTok.

    1. Radio Free Asia, August 7, 2020
    2. Twitter, @Raymond999USA

  195. @Anon99

    This is quite possibly the stupidest comment I’ve ever read. Radio Free Asia is a CIA propaganda piece, and usually prefers quoting from the Falun Gong. Everything emanating from them is seditious trash.

    And the evidence for this is where?

    When the Chinese Foreign Ministry vacated the Houston Consulate, all they did was burn documents. When the Americans vacated their Chengdu Consulate, (an office with only about 60 people), they removed 11 or 12 shipping containers full of stuff – all sealed as “diplomatic bags”.

    Americans insist on blaming everyone else for precisely the sins they themselves commit.

  196. @Anon99

    You honestly didn’t know Radio Free Asia is a CIA front….??? Same with Voice of America. Epoch Times is another – but it is a Falun Gong front – in coordination with the CIA.

    • Agree: GreatSocialist
  197. Anon99a says:

    I am personally familiar with both Huawei and CIA operations, being on the target end of things, unfortunately, which is why I am 100% confident in the accuracy of the allegation. It’s only the tip of the iceberg as far as what Huawei is really up to.

    Larry you are a bought and paid for PLA Intelligence asset.

    Someone has scooped ANON99 user ID from me so I am now ANON99a

  198. Anon99a says:

    If you guys are saying the CIA are pushing back against the CCP & PLA then it’s about time. I’m totally cool with that reversal in policy.

  199. britishbrainsize [AKA "australianbrainsize1325ccsnicker"] says:
    @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    The british diaspora five eyes killed more viet people than the chinese did in thousand years ,not to forget the rape of women and chidren by the britshit five eyes, chinese dont rape and kill children.

  200. What puzzles me and Pugsley is —Seattle Portland Chicago Kenosha Baltimore Atlanta St Louis
    Los Angeles is bad—the vandalism and property being destroyed – willingly and social discord. This is democracy turning into anarchy ! However when the same was happening in Hong Kong –it was OK since the property destruction and closing down the economy was a demonstration for democracy?? Same result but with 2 different names?

  201. d dan says:
    @d dan

    “Assume that … Tik Tok “agrees” to be sold…, the question then is what, or whether the Chinese government will agree. The original Tik Tok is… The machine learning techniques are trained with massive data from the user base of Chinese consumers…

    I don’t know whether Chinese government will do anything, but if they want, they could throw a monkey wrench to the transaction…”

    As speculated about 3 weeks ago, the Commerce Department of China just announced two days ago that there is a revised list of technology and products export restrictions. The list includes conspicuously a new item related to information delivery service based on *big* data analysis. Everyone knows this is specifically referred to Tik Tok. Looks like Chinese government just declared that they have the new legal tool to stop the “forced” sale of Tik Tok if they want.


    Well, next round in the China-US business war starts. From my perspective, it looks like China is willing to lose TikTok in the USA, while keeping control of it as a global app.

    As China said(paraphrasing Bloomberg), we won’t allow you lame-ass barbarians to steal our AI and algos in TikTok, so just go n fuck yourselves.

    Trump will just have to block it in the USA, like India does, and that will make millions of TikTok users very unhappy with Dear Leader Micropenis Trump, so unhappy that millions or at least many thousands, ten thousands or more will not vote for him. Considering that Trump won by a sliver in the battleground states, won’t it be a squeal if he loses in November just from TikTok voters going for Biden?

    One can’t help but think this new move has Trump deeply reamed in his ass by the Chinese. Soon he should be feeling that warm liquid sensation, just like how the Chinese reamed his ass deep in the Avenue of Americas deal. Actually it wasn’t such a bad deal for him and he ended up thanking the Chinese, saying he respected and admired them, and begging them to forgive him for starting countless lawsuits against them, which, by the way, all failed, every one.

    What butthurt him so much was that he had no control over the deal, he was there just for the ride, at the mercy of the Chinese. Unfortunately that was what he agreed to, in return for the Chinese buying his debt and adding fresh funds to his failed project, so he could only open his pie-hole and swallow it on his knees, like a third-rate pornstar in a $500 porn-cam video.

    I’ve always felt that Trump had it in for the Chinese after that deal, in fact he’s said many times that he was the big winner in that deal, and he beat the Chinese. Laughable, but it shows how badly he wants to believe that he won in that deal, where he failed miserably like a dog.

    Everybody in business knows this.

  203. You talk about Falun Gong members, I had the pleasure of meeting some in SEAsia in the late 90s. At that time they were not so rabidly anti-China, they were more interested in recruiting people and getting funds to grow their operations. From my hindsight.

    When I met them, I had no idea of the history or ideology of their group, and simply assumed they were another religious group that I was meeting up with because of a friend’s interest in them.

    After talking to two lady members for 5 minutes, I formed the impression they were batshit crazy but essentially harmless. They were saying that rays of power could come out from their master’s eyes and he could also levitate himself, they said, no kidding.

    It’s sad how they have all immigrated to the USA and are being used by the CIA/neocons to attack China.

    It’s sad how the CIA/neocons and especially the Trump Admin have started a business and economic war against China mostly based on false accusations to cover for their own failures, corruption and incompetence.

    The best example is Trump blaming China for the virus, which due to his incompetence, foolishness and corruption has killed 200,000 Americans and infected 6 million more.

    Ignoring the virus for 3 months, saying it’s nothing, it will just go away and going golfing for 300 days out of 1,300 days, sabotaging the efforts of others to deal with the virus and slowing down testing and leaving the WHO out of fear the WHO will trace the virus back to american laboratories, it’s almost unbelievable that the USA has a president as foolish, incompetent and useless as this.

  204. Well, looks like the newest development has Trump backing down like a scared little pussy over banning TikTok in the USA out of fear that TikTok’s 100million users would get pissed and vote against him.

    Let’s remember that crestfallen Trump had his panties in such a twist over Tiktok videos mocking him and also a Tiktok online campaign to make him look stupid at his first rally by fake-buying all the seats, that he dreamed up some absurd excuse that TikTok was a national security threat(seriously!) to try and force sell TikTok at firesale prices to an American company like Microsoft(which clearly did not want it).

    We even had “SoiCowboy” Navarro threatening Microsoft over its R&D centre in China.

    Now it looks like we’ll end up with an arrangement that is really no different than before, with Oracle and Walmart taking a combined 20% stake in TikTok, hoping to profit when TikTok goes IPO. TikTok’s data will be handled by Oracle, and nobody cares because nobody was spying on that data anyway.

    Bytedance will have 80% of TikTok, but since Bytedance is 41% owned by Americans, then technically Americans have another 32% of TikTok, making American ownership 52% and thus “a majority”.

    And nobody cares, except delusional old Donny Trump.

    And Trump, eager to invent another victory, bullshits that TikTok will pay $5billion to the US as an education fund. Bytedance says this is just the taxes they will pay in the next how many years, like Trump saying Mexico will pay for the Wall.

    In summation: Trump was butthurt at TikTok, invented some way to attack the company, then backed down when he realized it would hurt his reelection, and accepted a non-deal where nothing changes as satisfactory.

    All that noise, all the honking and screaming, for nothing. That really is the story of Donald Trump, a lot of noise and no substance except a small residue of bullshit.

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