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Serb Hillbillies, Sandra Afrika and Alexander the Great
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Skopje, 2020

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Wandering around Belgrade, I ran into the Hells Angels of Serbia’s clubhouse. I tried its door to find it locked. Weeks later, I discovered the Hillbillies MC’s pub, so I went in, had a couple beers and looked around. Their logo featured a bearded, smiling skull in front of red wings.

Most of the “doom crew” were middle-aged, hirsute and tattooed. The owner wore his salt-and-pepper hair in a pony tail. Over the bar was a painting of a near naked chick draped over a bike. From a wall, Motorhead’s Lemmy stared everyone down, looking badassed in his black cowboy hat. Most tellingly, just about every sign, message, slogan or joke was in English. “KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON DRINKING.” “LEGENDS NEVER DIE.” “ROUTE U.S. 66.” “ROUTE 69 / SEX KING OF THE ROAD.”

Now nearly anyone anywhere can sort of become anything, so why not be an American redneck, black rapper or Warholian metrosexual, etc.? It wasn’t that long ago when only a few could even choose a different colored shirt.

There’s a Serbian singer named Sandra Afrika. Though augmented with decently bulbous ghetto ass, her twerking isn’t quite, well, sista quality. Reinvention has its limits.

A nation can also undergo an extreme makeover, such as after an invasion, revolution or liberation. In the weird case of North Macedonia, its capital got a lurid facelift under the direction of prime minister Nikola Gruevski. With Skopje 2014, dozens of pseudo Greek buildings and hundreds of Hellenic statues were plopped onto the nation’s capital, as if by a drunken Zeus.

In this country of two million, at least two thirds are Slavs, with most of the rest Albanians, Turks and Gypsies. There are few Greeks. Still, downtown Skopje is now jammed with fluted columns, voluted capitals, acanthuses, pediments and friezes, with everything huge and towering, if only made of concrete and not marble. It’s everything Greek super-sized, but done on a budget.

As for statues, they grace promenades, lawns, cornices, bridges, columns, between columns, niches and grand pedestals. The most colossal is of Alexander the Great, sword raised, riding a rearing Bucephalas. Lording over a vast square, it’s on a round platform atop a fat, banded and relief-laden column, rising from a circular fountain. Streams of dancing water noisily arc in. At the column’s base are eight sword or lance-wielding warriors, with the latter evoking the fearsome Macedonian phalanxes. Eight lions, twice life-sized, stand or sit, with four squirting water from their roaring mouths.

Half a kilometer away is a giant statue of Philip II, and he, too, is atop a column in the middle of a fountain, with warriors and lions. At its base, Philip reappears with Olympias and a boy Alexander.

Nearby, there’s a fountain dedicated just to Olympias, but with four women shown, it’s not clear how. Three are pampering children. One is pregnant. To blunt Greek charges of cultural appropriation, it was briefly renamed Fountain of the Mothers of Macedonia.

Now, there’s a backtracking, appeasing plaque, “In honor of Olympias, a historic figure belonging to the ancient Hellenic history and civilization and to the world cultural and historic heritage.” Far from exuding pride, it sounds like lawyerspeak. Similar plaques front other statues, with “Hellenic” sometimes scratched out by pissed locals.

Why celebrate Olympias at all? Perhaps unfairly, she’s best known for sleeping with snakes. Plutarch, “Once, moreover, a serpent was found lying by Olympias as she slept, which more than anything else, it is said, abated Philip’s passion for her; and whether he feared her as an enchantress, or thought she had commerce with some god, and so looked on himself as excluded, he was ever after less fond of her conversation.” You’d be abated too, buddy. Worse, she may have been complicit in Philip’s assassination.

Although Skopje statues do honor Macedonian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Serb and Byzantinian heroes, the main spotlights shine on Alexander. Skopje’s airport was also named Alexander the Great. It’s odd that 21st century North Macedonians should identify with Alexander at all. Their language is basically Bulgarian. If a drunk shepherd from eastern North Macedonia strays into Bulgaria, he’s completely understood, but not if he staggers into Greece.

Also, Alexander during his time was mostly feared and despised by Greeks, for he massacred so many of them. When the Branchidae in Persia welcomed conquering Alexander as a fellow Greek, he promptly slaughtered them. Many Greeks fought against Alexander, even as mercenaries for the Persians.

Drunk, vain, touchy and paranoid, Alexander didn’t hesitate to kill his generals, soldiers, body guards, pages or court historian. Alexander murdered Cleitus, who had saved him in battle. When his lover, Hephaestion, died, Alexander blamed it on the deceased man’s physician, so Glaucias was impaled, a Persian practice that disgusted Macedonians and Greeks alike.

When Alexander died, Greeks rejoiced, but now he’s one of their greatest heroes, and a towering presence to most Westerners, for he pushed back the Persians. Without Alexander, our entire world would be less Greek (thus less Roman), and more Persian, but is that bad? Imagine history without Jesus, at least not on the cross, but perhaps impaled? When Alexander torched Persepolis in 330BC, centuries of knowledge went up in smoke.

ORDER IT NOW

It was retribution for the Persians’ burning of Athens in 480BC. Plus, Alexander had encountered this when he entered the magnificent Persian city, “At this point in his advance the king was confronted by a strange and dreadful sight, one to provoke indignation against the perpetrators and sympathetic pity for the unfortunate victims. He was met by Greeks bearing branches of supplication. They had been carried away from their homes by previous kings of Persia and were about eight hundred in number, most of them elderly. All had been mutilated, some lacking hands, some feet, and some ears and noses. They were persons who had acquired skills or crafts and had made good progress in their instruction; then their other extremities had been amputated and they were left only those which were vital to their profession. All the soldiers, seeing their venerable years and the losses which their bodies had suffered, pitied the lot of the wretches. Alexander most of all was affected by them and unable to restrain his tears.” (Diodorus Siculus)

Few lives change nearly every other. Plus, overwhelming power awes, mesmerizes and seduces, as long as you’re not threatened, that is. Alexander will forever fascinate, as will Quin Shih Huang, Genghis Khan, Charlemagne or Napoleon, etc. AAA males are so rare, how can us tick-like wusses, fearful of our own shadows even, not buckle our knees?

Another reason for North Macedonians’ identification with Alexander is our basic need to feel intrinsic to a place, because it’s jarring to admit we’re just squatters, more or less, anywhere.

In Belgrade, a woman told me Serbs sprung from the Vinča Culture, which dates to 5700BC, so her ancestors didn’t only arrive in the Balkans in the 8th century, after all. They’ve always been there. She also claimed there were Serbs among Alexander the Great’s troops, with many of their descendants now living in Pakistan.

In Laos, there are hundreds of huge, ancient stone jars half buried in the ground that can’t be linked to current Laotians, but still, they’re proud. Vietnamese identify with 2,600-years-old bronze drums they can’t explain.

Skopje has been inhabited for at least 6,000 years, but there have been so many wars, not to mention earthquakes, few old structures remain. There are beautiful mosques, with their mixed stone and brick walls, and stately stone minarets, so unlike the newer concrete ones. Less constrained by cost and gravity, they’ve become thinner and taller. Haughtily, they starkly rise.

There’s a large 15th century Turkish bath, with its gorgeous booblike domes. Spanning the Vardar (or Axios as mentioned by Homer), there’s a 702-foot-long, 13-arched stone bridge, built by the Ottomans no later than 1469. A plaque on it commemorates the 1689 impalement of Petar Karposh, a local Slav rebel. There’s also an equestrian statue of him, next to the bridge.

Crossing it often, I’ve come to recognize its beggars. One man has bulging, nublike feet, which he sticks out. There is a Gypsy boy, undersized but no older than six, who always wears a FC Barcelona jersey. An older boy has piercing and alert eyes, darkly rimmed.

The Old Town boasts new storefronts, so doesn’t look too ancient, but if you study the more seasoned flagstones on its lanes, you can see the cracks, cavities and slightest indentations left by so many feet down the centuries. Nobodies, we too leave our marks.

Never bombed, Prague’s historical center is magnificent, a bitter reminder of what much of Europe has once been. Haplessly resurrecting this hard-earned splendor, Skopje has become a joke, but what’s done is done. Leave it, and let the world come and witness, before the cheaply built monuments peel, flake, crumble and collapse.

A nude Prometheus had his penis spat on by disgusted old ladies, so now must wear a sculptural loin cloth. Ancient Greeks digged naked males. Again, North Macedonians are mostly Slavs.

Linh Dinh’s latest book is Postcards from the End of America. He maintains a regularly updated photo blog.

 
• Category: Culture/Society, History • Tags: Balkans, Greeks, Macedonia, Serbia 
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  1. Cutler says:

    Great read, Thanks.

  2. As part of the dire Prespa agreement with Greece, there is an explicit clarification that the citizens of the country are not related to ancient Hellenic civilization that previously inhabited the northern regions of Greece. Specifically, Article 7 mentions that both countries acknowledge that their respective understanding of the terms “Macedonia” and “Macedonian” refers to a different historical context and cultural heritage. When reference is made to Greece, these terms denote the area and people of its northern region, as well as the Hellenic civilization, history and culture of that region. When reference is made to Republic of Northern Macedonia, these terms denote its territory, language and people, with their own, distinctly different, history and culture.

    In effect, the Skopjans have officially renounced their claims to ancient Macedon and elements of Hellenic history. Unfortunately, that does not mean they will remove the kitsch statues to a culture they officially have no cultural connection too.

    “Also, Alexander during his time was mostly feared and despised by Greeks, for he massacred so many of them.”

    In Greece proper, he only massacred the inhabitants of Thebes. Massacres between Greek city-states and kingdoms was a regular occurrence.

    “When the Branchidae in Persia welcomed conquering Alexander as a fellow Greek, he promptly slaughtered them.”

    He slaughtered them not because they were Greek but because they were seen as traitors to Hellas and in the service of Persia when they were judged to have sided with Persia in the earlier Greek-Persian wars.

    Many Greeks fought against Alexander, even as mercenaries for the Persians.

    Many Greeks fought with Alexander too. At that time, the Greek hoplite was in high demand across the ancient world. Often soldiers who were exiled at home would seek employment elsewhere and sometimes against their fellow Greeks.

    “Drunk, vain, touchy and paranoid, Alexander didn’t hesitate to kill his generals, soldiers, body guards, pages or court historian. Alexander murdered Cleitus, who had saved him in battle. When his lover, Hephaestion”

    I would be really keen for you to post textual evidence that Hephaestion was Alexander’s lover.

    “When Alexander died, Greeks rejoiced”

    Only a few city-states and kingdoms rejoiced because they did not share his pan-Hellenic crusade. However, many others like Isocratis were very enthusiastic.

    Ancient Greeks always squabbled and sometimes killed each other. This did not mean they considered their fellow Greek a barbarian. Likewise, when Alexander murdered Greeks like the Thebans he still considered them his fellow Hellenes.

  3. Emslander says:

    Alexander’s Hellenization of the Middle East meant that Christ and his immediate followers had Greek, Roman, Jewish and Persian empires as cultural transmitters of the message of the Gospel. In addition, Islamic scholars, seeking intellectual energy for their theological writings, transmitted the texts of Plato, Aristotle and the rest of the classic Greek playwrights and philosophers to the West in time for Thomas Aquinas to justify Christian scholastics.

    If it weren’t for Phillip II and Alexander, Western Culture would be primarily Druid.

  4. jo6pac says:

    Thanks for the travel log and history;-)

  5. This is no different than Anglos in their neoclassical phase. The generic Brit is about as far removed from Rome spiritually, culturally, and genetically as the Macedonian Slav is from the Argiads.

    • Replies: @mark tapley
  6. Bulgaria and its people are an interesting study. The Bulgars who conquered that region were a Central Asian people similar to the Magyars that conquered Hungary. But unlike in the latter case, the Bulgars did not impress upon the land’s occupants their language, and as a result the Bulgarians speak a Slavic language.

    • Replies: @RT
  7. Just a balkanized multicultural residue trying to achieve a false identity. Alexander’s empire quickly fell apart right after his death.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  8. @Emslander

    The New Testament gospel (good news) of Christ has resulted in the greater good for more people and societies than any other culture and philosophy. And this is just a byproduct of the message of salvation. These byproducts of Christianity have benefited mankind wherever they have taken root.

    The first century gospel as preached by the Apostles has been subverted by false teachers and their doctrines of men as Paul warned would happen:
    Acts 20: 28-30

    Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

    For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

    Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

  9. @Supply and Demand

    You apparently don’t appreciate the wholesome synergistic effects of the Jews Kelergi Plan. This enlightened vision for true cultural enrichment financed by the altruistic Rothschilds and Warburgs will gradually eliminate the barbaric, slovenly low I.Q ethnic whites to be replaced by the high I.Q. industrious peace loving Africans. The African negroes have an impressive history of achievement and just because they had not yet figured out the wheel or built anything but mud huts when the first white men encountered them, only proves that they have been held back and discriminated against.

    Despite the distorted picture we get from areas they and their descendants predominate in, such as Haiti, Zimbabwe, Camden N.J. and Detroit, all of us know deep down that given real equality and a bigger welfare check they will leave white western culture in the dustbin on history and achieve the dream of Wakanda as the Jews in Hollywood portray realty in the movie “Black Panther.”

    • LOL: Alfred
  10. Don’t speak so fast.

    Conquerors may impose their language (like the Anglo-Saxons), or they may not (like the Franks). But the ancient bloodlines survive. The people who live in a place tend to keep living in that place, no matter who collects their taxes. There is a story about Chester, England, where a majority of the residents of that fair city are genetically related to some prehistoric bones dug up nearby.

    And thus, the Slavic-speaking Macedonians may well have Alexander’s blood flowing in their veins. Language doth not maketh man.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
  11. Just don’t get into how modern Greeks aren’t particularly Greek either.

    It’s not quite as bad as modern Jewry’s appropriation of Palestine, but there are similarities.

    • Replies: @JRB
  12. “Their logo featured a bearded, smiling skull in front of red wings.”

    I recalled reading about “red wings” in Hunter Thompson’s Hells Angels, and Wikipedia confirms my memory:

    Cunnilingus may be performed during menstruation, which may be called “to earn one’s red wings” in slang.[25][26] The phrase is a reference to menstrual blood stains in the shape of a small bird’s wings that are liable to form on the giving partner’s cheeks during the act.[26][27]

    The red wing patch was common among the Hells Angels by the mid-1960s,[28] and the slang term continued to be known among biker gangs in the 1980s.[25] Gershon Legman saw the act/badge not only as functioning a homosocial tie, but also as reflecting a deep and primitive belief in the lifegiving powers of blood.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cunnilingus#During_menstruation

  13. Cyrano says:

    Don’t get me started on this one. Greece claims that’s 98% Greek – practically no minorities. When in reality, probably just barely over half of the population is Greek.

    And the stupid Europe allows them to get away with this. I guess as long as you are “democracy” you can get away with murder.

    Still, the biggest blame lies with the Serbs – who out of the generosity of their hearts gifted Macedonia to the Greeks, who based on the effort that they put in the Balkan wars shouldn’t have gotten almost anything, let alone 60% of Macedonia.

    I believe that the curse of the 2nd Balkan war is haunting the Serbs to this day. Ever since that colossal betrayal of their Slavic brothers – Bulgarians and Macedonians, they had nothing but bad luck, and for what?

    What did they got out of their “friendship” with the Greeks? Rent free stay on Corfu during the WW1 – when thousands of them died because their great friends the Greeks, couldn’t, or wouldn’t feed them.

    That BS about democracy is all a joke. Europe allows the Greeks to deny the Macedonians the right to speak their language, what the hell, they deny them the right to give their kids Macedonian names. Some democracy is flourishing in Greece and in Europe. It’s all just a pile of BS.

    https://www.refworld.org/docid/49749d1841.html

  14. Prague Was bombed.

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  15. HalconHigh says: • Website

    Hirsute = hairy
    While I’ve seen that word thousands of times, for some reason (I’m stupid ?) wasn’t sure of its meaning.

    Bucephalus…This led me to another google search, where I found “Comanche”, the horse ridden by Capt. Keogh of the 7th Cavalry in the battle of The Little Big Horn.
    Comanche survived, Keogh did not.
    Is there a more maligned animal in human history than the horse ?

    Anyways Linh, thanks for the english & history lessons.

    btw…Chris Hedges had a great interview with UK Ambassador Craig Murray recently regarding Julian Assange. Hope you get to see it.

  16. Vojkan says:

    When it was created in 1918, the former Yugoslavia first bore the name Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians because in reality, those were the three peoples living there. Then the communists usurped power during WWII and invented new nations to diminish the demographic weight of the Serbs and through constant Serb-shaming largely succeeded in dividing them, though when it comes to Serbs of islamic faith, the Serbian Orthodox Church’s refusal to call them Serbs also greatly contributed to the problem.
    Today the Slavs on the territory of former Yugoslavia who aren’t Croats or Slovenians, are actually Serbs. There are Serbs who are just that in Republika Srpska, the Serb part of Bosnia-Herzegovina. Then there are Serbs who lie first to themselves then to the rest of the world that they aren’t Serbs, call themselves Bosniaks, Montenegrins, Macedonians and to prove they aren’t Serbs, they invent themselves histories from which historical evidence is purged because, well, historical evidence doesn’t really support their flights of fancy.
    Last but not least, in what remains of Serbia, there are Serbs who if given the chance would be anything but Serbs. They’d be Yugoslavs again, Europeans, Turks, whatever, but they’re stuck with being Serbian and they just hate it. When they present themselves as Serbs before foreigners, it is only to conceal how much they loathe being what they are.
    With the exception of Serbs from Republika Srpska, former Yugoslavs stink. In the whole of Europe, only the Albanians are less civilised. The only places worth visiting in Serbia and Northern Macedonia are the medieval monasteries but are they worth risking your life to reach them? A Serb behind a wheel is a road accident waiting to happen. If you can call those holed lanes roads. For the rest, if you like garbage everywhere, suit yourself.

    PS: I almost forgot, prepare yourself also to the fact that usually, the first thing anyone there will tell you will be a lie. They don’t know you from Adam, and the first thing they do when they meet you, they lie.

  17. JRB says:
    @Colin Wright

    Correct, the ethnic Greeks left in Greece are mostly from the Islands or refugees from Turkey, who settled in Greece 100 years ago. People on the mainland are mostly of Slavic descent, especially in the north of Greece

    • Agree: Cyrano
    • Thanks: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  18. padre says:

    Alexander the Great was definitively a part of ancient Greek history and culture,although I doubt that he was considered one by them!But he certainly has no connection with modern day Macedonians!

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  19. @obwandiyag

    But the ancient bloodlines survive

    On an isolated island like Britain, sure. But look at the US. If you dig up a 1000 year old corpse from a bog in New Jersey or Georgia, what are the odds you will find any modern descendants living nearby? We know from history that large parts of the Balkans were depopulated many times by plague and war and resettled by “colonists” from Western Europe or Slavic invaders. There is probably an element of Ancient Macedonian blood in modern Macedonia, but probably no more than you would find in any random group in the Balkans or Asia Minor.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  20. Linh Dinh says:

    Hi HalconHigh,

    The many statues do provide handy references. For example, this was a recent appointment from my friend Aleksandar, “High Noon, in front of Pelister Restaurant, near Samuel’s monument, below the balls of Bucephalus.” Samuel is Samuel of Bulgaria (958-1014).

    Linh

    • Replies: @HalconHigh
  21. @JRB

    Can you give some of the detail, including numbers and dates preferably, of the replacement of Greeks by Slavs? How come they ended up speaking Greek?

  22. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Peter Mička

    Hi Peter,

    Bombed, but not its historical center, correct?

    Linh

    • Replies: @RT
  23. @Vojkan

    Macedonians are Bulgarians, not Serbs. The Macedonian/Bulgarian languages are so degraded grammatically relative to the other Slavic languages that I have always assumed it was originally acquired as the second language of Turkic speaking Bulgars who passed that pidgin down as a language to their children. So not Serbs.

    Vojvodina is quite nice, and worth visiting for the Habsburg architecture. So is Belgrade if you like beautiful women, grilled meat and alcohol.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
    , @Simpleguest
  24. @Wizard of Oz

    Greek was still a prestige language of the Ottoman Empire right up to 1918. Still, I suspect most of the Slavs in Greece only really started speaking Greek in the 20th century when the State became powerful enough to introduce compulsory schooling, radio, and widespread literacy.

    • Replies: @Alfred
    , @Colin Wright
  25. Franz says:

    Half a kilometer away is a giant statue of Philip II, and he, too, is atop a column in the middle of a fountain, with warriors and lions. At its base, Philip reappears with Olympias and a boy Alexander.

    Three lucky people. Olympias died in battle, Philip killed by an ex-lover, and Alexander… well, maybe fever and maybe his own general staff poisoned him to keep from joining their fellows Alexander already knocked off. Speculation continues to this very day.

    • Replies: @Alden
  26. Miroslav says:

    Do Serbs spring from the Vincha culture?Did they arrive in the Balkans in the 8th. century?Were they always there?Were there Serbs among Alexander the Great”s troops?I think the answer to these questions is YES. The story that Slavs[Serbs] arrived in the Balkans in the 7th. century[more precisely 625A.D. supposedly] first started among the Greeks and Latins,old adversaries, and continued among colonial British and Germans which was used to justify their march to the East. If historians would drop their prejudices and studied the facts then we would know the real history of the Roman Empire,East and West, and other mysteries would be revealed.

  27. Vojkan says:
    @padre

    Aristotle not only considered him to be Greek but educated him and encouraged him to become leader of the Greek. Saying that he wasn’t Greek because he was actually Macedonian is like saying that Bismarck wasn’t actually German because he was Prussian.

    • Replies: @RT
  28. @Emslander

    If it weren’t for Phillip II and Alexander, Western Culture would be primarily Druid.

    Wouldn’t it be Celtic?

  29. @Wizard of Oz

    Why do so many Hispanic -Americans speak English?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  30. Plus, overwhelming power awes, mesmerizes and seduces, as long as you’re not threatened, that is. Alexander will forever fascinate, as will Quin Shih Huang, Genghis Khan, Charlemagne or Napoleon, etc. AAA males are so rare, how can us tick-like wusses, fearful of our own shadows even, not buckle our knees?

    Speak for yourself, Fraud.

  31. Why the reluctance to call Macedonians in North Macedonia by their internationally recognized and accepted name? Why refer to them as Slavs in North Macedonia?

    Here is Wikipedia on Macedonians as an ethnic group:

    Macedonians (Macedonian: Македонци, romanized: Makedonci) are a South Slavic ethnic group native to the region of Macedonia in South-East Europe. They speak the Macedonian language, a South Slavic language. About two thirds of all ethnic Macedonians live in North Macedonia and there are also communities in a number of other countries.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)

    And here is the same source about macedonian language:

    Macedonian (/ˌmæsɪˈdoʊniən/; македонски јазик, translit. makedonski jazik, pronounced [maˈkɛdɔnski ˈjazik] (About this soundlisten)) is an Eastern South Slavic language. Spoken as a first language by around two million people, it serves as the official language of North Macedonia. Most speakers can be found in the country and its diaspora, with a smaller number of speakers throughout the transnational region of Macedonia. Macedonian is also a recognized minority language in parts of Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Romania, and Serbia and it is spoken by emigrant communities predominantly in Australia, Canada and the United States.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_language

    If someone has a beef with their name and language, they should bring their grievances, recent attempts to reach back to antiquity notwithstanding, to the UN Security Council.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  32. Not your best. Aren’t you tired of wandering around noting how confused and tawdry everything is?

  33. usNthem says:

    One thing Europeans across the board have down are statues and fountains – like nothing we have in the states.

    • Replies: @Muggles
  34. ProudBLM says:
    @Emslander

    Islam’s founder Mohammed is basically an Arab version of Alexander especially his military conquests, this was consciously done as the Arabs were in awe of Alexander for centuries. I also think Alexander’s sexual “choices” may have played a role in Mohammed’s personal “choices”.

    • Replies: @Druid
  35. @The Alarmist

    It would be interesting to make a comparison which would include reasons for immigration, timeline of immigration including reference to any separate waves, education systems and more. I doubt that the economic incentives would have worked in the same way to produce what I take to be non Slavic speaking Greek families as the almost universal rule.

  36. Alfred says:

    Caesar’s Palace in Las Vegas has much more authenticity than the phoney, plaster statues of Skopje which risibly try to create an artificial history of an improvised state with an ersatz identity for a South Slavic-speaking people who desperately claim a connection to the ancient world though they migrated to that region some thousand years after that world had ended.

    Alexander is celebrated in Greece because he made dominant the Greek language and culture throughout the Eastern Mediterranean and took it as far as India. It was the Hellenistic Age of Alexander’s conquests that enticed the Romans, that was the cultural foundation of the thousand year Greek-speaking “Byzantine” Empire, that preserved and disseminated the works of Classical Greece, that sparked the Renaissance, that connected modern Europe to its cultural origins, and that led, for better or worse, to the creation of the modern Greek state with its unbroken linguistic continuity of nearly four thousand years going back to the roots of Europe and the West.

    • Agree: Alden
  37. RT says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Volga (Bolga) region where Bolgars originally are from is not Central Asia, in fact not Asia at all.

  38. Most people have heard of the Great Khan from Mongolia but who is this Quin? An illegitimate son of the late great thespian of a half Mexican origin perhaps… and as to the Serbian-Pakis, most of them are driving Yellow cabs, recklessly, in the streets of New York City. So much for conquering the world!

  39. Alfred says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Changing the language of a minority to that of the majority occurs often enough in countries to not be uncommon in the world, Irish, Scottish and Welsh to English and the harmonisation of France will do for a start. The dominant Greek-speaking majority of the modern Greek state most certainly followed that route with its own linguistic minorities that were far and isolated from their linguistic centres.

  40. Vojkan says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Their language is closer to Bulgarian than the Serbian spoken in Belgrade but isn’t that far off the Serbian spoken in Vranje. Whatever their language, the physionomy of the people in Skopje, Kumanovo, Prilep, Veles, Bitola, Ohrid is not the physionomy of the people in Sofia, Plovdiv, Burgas, Varna, Pernik, Pleven. It is the same physionomy as in the south of Serbia.
    Northern Macedonians just aren’t Bulgarians. I have no problem with their current name. The only problem with them is that the history they boast is bullshit.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
  41. Vojkan says:
    @Simpleguest

    Maybe because wikipedia peddles total bullshit with regards to anything that isn’t experimentally or mathematically verifiable.

    • Replies: @Simpleguest
  42. Linh, you wrote:

    Ancient Greeks digged naked males. Again, North Macedonians are mostly Slavs.

    But:

    Digged is the older past tense and past participle of dig. The modern form dug is an innovation that has become standard.

    It’s such an older past tense version of dig that I’ve never heard anyone use it ever. Maybe in the 1800s or earlier.

  43. @Vojkan

    You’re watching nationbuilding of new nation states in real time. In 1887 it was recorded that there were 540,000 Serbs living in Macedonia. Today there’re 36,000 Serbs living on that territory. So what happened to them all? I suspect that most Serbs there changed the suffixes of their surnames and started declaring themselves Macedonian, then North Macedonian, whatever next?

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  44. @Vojkan

    Maybe because wikipedia peddles total bullshit with regards to anything that isn’t experimentally or mathematically verifiable.

    Hmm.
    How about this site:

    Macedonian language, Macedonian Makedonski Jazik, South Slavic language that is most closely related to Bulgarian and is written in the Cyrillic alphabet. Macedonian is the official language of the Republic of North Macedonia, where it is spoken by more than 1.3 million people. The Macedonian language is also spoken in Greek Macedonia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia, Albania, and Australia.

    https://www.britannica.com/topic/Macedonian-language

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  45. RT says:
    @Linh Dinh

    On Feb. 14, 1945 62 B-17 dropped 152 tons of bombs over the centre of Prague, including historical centre. It was rebuilt and reshaped after the war.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  46. RT says:
    @Vojkan

    Aristotle was expelled (ostracized) from all Greek city states at the time, and when offered the job of tutoring the young Makedon prince, he had little choice.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Vojkan
    , @Alfred
  47. @Peter Akuleyev

    Yes it varies depending on who and where. I’d say that in Hungary the ancient bloodlines survived to a great extent considering they hardly look like Asiatic Huns. Or the Finns. And the Mongols left their genes in those parts of Europe they conquered but these hardly predominate in the present day population. So I’d say that despite all the conquests in the Balkans, the bloodlines of the original inhabitants remain to this day, although mixed with others to some extent.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
  48. Sparkon says:

    I wonder if there’s a statue of Dragutin Dimitrijević known as Apis (Апис) anywhere in this region.


    Apis, Dragutin Dimitrijević

    Dimitrijević was the supposedly charismatic Serbian colonel who led the so-called May Coup in Belgrade in 1903, a coup d’état in which Serbian King Alexander Obrenović and Queen Draga were assassinated inside the Royal Palace.

    The Serbian “Unification or Death” secret society was formed in 1901 among junior officers of the Kingdom of Serbia Army, and is popularly known as “The Black Hand.” Supposedly inspired by the earlier unifications of both Italy and Germany in the 19th century, the military secret clique’s goal was unification of the Southern Slavs.

    Dimitrijević later led the Black Hand, a society responsible for the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand in June 1914, which led to the July Crisis and the outbreak of World War I. In 1916, Serbian Prime Minister Nikola Pašić, who considered Dimitrijević as a potential threat, accused Dimitrijević and the Black Hand group of treason. Dimitrijević was executed by firing squad in June 1917.


    Gavrilo Princip

    Bosnian Serb Gavrilo Princip is usually identified as the assassin of Archduke Ferdinand, who was mortally wounded along with his wife Sophie, Duchess of Hohenberg in Sarajevo on June 24, 1914.

    Princip was one of a group of six assassins also containing Muhamed Mehmedbašić, Vaso Čubrilović, Nedeljko Čabrinović, Cvjetko Popović and Trifun Grabež (one Bosniak and five Serbs consecutively) coordinated by Danilo Ilić, a Bosnian Serb and a member of the Black Hand secret society. The political objective of the assassination was to break off Austria-Hungary’s South Slav provinces so they could be combined into a Yugoslavia. The conspirators’ motives were consistent with the movement that later became known as Young Bosnia. The assassination led directly to World War I when Austria-Hungary subsequently issued an ultimatum to the Kingdom of Serbia, which was partially rejected. Austria-Hungary then declared war on Serbia, triggering actions leading to war between most European states.

    In the aftermath of WWI, the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes was formed from territories of the former Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Kingdom of Serbia. It was renamed the Kingdom of Yugoslavia in 1929, renamed the Federal People’s Republic of Yugoslavia in 1946, renamed again in 1963 as the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, and broke up beginning in 1991 when the Yugoslav War erupted.


    Anyone who can keep track of this bloody mess is a better historian than I. How many died in all the wars of the 20th century? Are they back where they started yet?

    The statue of Gavrilo Princip in the Park Gavrilo Princip, Belgrade

    Well, if they’ve got a statue for this assassin, I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s one for Dimitrijević too.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  49. Alden says:
    @Franz

    I believe Olympia was stoned to death soon after Alexander died. . In revenge for all the people she killed after Alexander went off to conquer the world and left her as regent.

    Supposedly she burnt to death another wife of Philip and their baby girl soon after Alexander left. And hired someone to kill Phillip a month after that baby girl was born. And arranged for Phillip’s assassin to be killed shortly after he killed Phillip. Alternate theory is that Phillip’s assassin was gang banged at some drunken orgy and Phillip refused to prosecute.

    There’s a theory Alexander’s second wife, daughter of the king of Persia he defeated, poisoned him in revenge for Alexander’ conquering Persia.

    I don’t know if he invented military police/political commissars. But he had an entire army standing behind the battles ready to kill anyone who retreated. So did the French revolutionary army from the very first. Napoleon continued the practice.

    The Bolsheviks did it too, both in the civil war and WW2.

    • Replies: @Franz
    , @Muggles
  50. Vojkan says:
    @Commentator Mike

    A unified Serbian nation would mean a strong nation state in the heart of the Balkans and it would actually mean stable Balkans. Imperial powers don’t want stable Balkans because instability provides them with a justification for their meddling.
    Historically, the Serbian territory in the former Yugoslavia comprises Serbia proper with Kosovo but without Vojvodina – which is if one is to be honest about it historically Hungarian -, the whole of Bosnia and Herzegovina, the Pelješac peninsula – now part of Croatia and the only part of today Croatia that Serbs could have legitimately claimed -, Montenegro – there was a state of Montenegro but it was a Serbian state and there was no such thing as a Montenegrin nationality before WWII -, and finally Northern Macedonia.
    Again, if one is to be honest, Serbs themselves are at least as responsible for the current situation as are Western imperial powers. To cut the story as short as possible, they thought they could command a bigger state if they simply stopped calling themselves Serbs and started using fake identities. The problem with that strategy is that during the communist period local potentates who couldn’t care less about national intereste but were very much interested in enriching themselves used those fake identities to consolidate their hold over fiefdoms and the fake identities were eventually recognised as real by Western powers because they served their interests.
    So Serbs are indeed largely responsible for their predicament but it doesn’t change the fact that most of what is peddled as official history in the former Yugoslavia is really just a big load of crap.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
  51. Alden says:
    @Emslander

    The texts of the classical Greeks stayed right in Europe. The texts were also spread throughout the Middle East. Christian monks and priests preserved and endlessly copied the texts, you’ve been reading Wikipedia or standard anti White anti European, anti Christian propaganda again.

  52. Alden says:
    @RT

    Why was Aristotle expelled?

    • Replies: @RT
  53. You’d be abated too, buddy.

    seriously? who writes like this?

    • Replies: @God's Fool
  54. Cyrano says:

    I am with Stalin on this one, actually. Stalin thought that Macedonia should be part of Bulgaria, based on linguistic and racial similarities.

    Macedonia has a lot (everything) in common with Bulgaria, almost nothing in common with Serbia and totally nothing with Greece.

    If Greek culture was so dominant and overwhelming to the senses, why it didn’t impose itself on the Slavic newcomers when they settled in present day Macedonia, but it was the other way around – everybody spoke Slavic Macedonian language in ALL of Macedonia until the Balkan wars when the Serbs gifted Macedonia to the Greeks.

    I wonder how did that “friendship” came about. Did the Greeks and the Serbs went Greek on each other or what? I mean such love is hard to explain otherwise except the Serbs falling for the Greeks charm.

    https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=go%20greek

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    , @RT
  55. Vojkan says:
    @Sparkon

    No, there is no statue for Apis anywhere. It is generally admitted among Serbs that his actions have caused a national catastrophe. As for Princip, he really became glorified only after WWII. The curious thing about him is that he was blind as a bat and allegedly couldn’t hit an oak from five meters. The assassination of archduke Franz-Ferdinand is one of those historical events with an official version more riddled with holes than a wheel of Emmenthal.

  56. Vojkan says:
    @RT

    So? How does that change the fact that Alexander and the Macedonians were as Greek as the Thebans, the Spartans, the Ithakans, the Cretans or the Athenians?

    • Replies: @RT
  57. Alfred says:
    @RT

    “Aristotle was expelled (ostracized) from all city states at the time..”

    What untutored nonsense, really.

  58. Cido says:

    Alexander was culturally and ethnically Greek. Long before being Macedonian turned to be cool, Herodotus had said that the Macedonian rulling class came from southern Greece.

  59. Robjil says:
    @RT

    I never heard about that, so I had to look it up. Yes, it happened the same day as Dresden. It was an American “mistake”. Why was the US and British bombing civilians anyway? Isn’t that a war crime? Amalek concept from Jewish advisors, perhaps.

    http://www.ww2inprague.com/articles/1945-bombing-of-prague

    The Bombing of Prague occurred during the end of World War II (February 14, 1945) when the US Army Air Forces carried out an air raid over Prague. The city was the capital of Czechoslovakia and (since the Nazi occupation in 1939) the main city of the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia. According to American pilots, it was the result of a navigation mistake—at the same time, a massive bombing of Dresden was under way, 120 km north from Prague.

    Forty B-17 Flying Fortresses of the 8th American Air Force dropped about 152 tons of bombs on many populated areas of Prague. The carpet-bombing hit Vyšehrad, Zlíchov, Karlovo náměstí, Nusle, Vinohrady, Vršovice and Pankrác. The bombing resulted in the deaths of 701 people and the wounding of 1,184. About a hundred houses and historical sites were totally destroyed and another two hundred were heavily damaged. All the casualties were civilians, and not one of the city’s factories, which might have been of use to the Wehrmacht, was damaged.

    • Replies: @Notsofast
    , @karel
    , @anon
  60. Alfred says:
    @mark tapley

    In fact, the Hellenistic Period that resulted from Alexander’s conquests lasted for some 300 years after his death when the Greek language and culture dominated the eastern Mediterranean and enticed and influenced the Roman world which came after it. Its largest city, Alexandria, was a renowned centre of art, science and learning. Greek became a lingua franca of the region which is why the New Testament was written in Greek.

    • Replies: @mark tapley
  61. Vojkan says:
    @Simpleguest

    I never said that the Macedonian language and the Bulgarian language were unrelated and the fact that they are doesn’t prove that Macedonians are Bulgarians. They just don’t look alike.

  62. @Cyrano

    If Greek culture was so dominant and overwhelming to the senses, why it didn’t impose itself on the Slavic newcomers when they settled in present day Macedonia, but it was the other way around

    Macedonia was always a backwater in the Greek world, even in Alexander’s time. By the time Slavs showed up the centers of Greek civilization were Constantinople and Alexandria. There were no Greek elites left in Macedonia. Sort of similar to the way the Anglosphere has abandoned Birmingham, England to South Asians.

  63. @Commentator Mike

    Thank you.

    I think indigenes are even more common than you do. But at least you get the rather obvious point.

  64. RT says:
    @Alden

    Blasphemy. Aristotle claimed that the death of Socrates was the greatest insult to Philosophy.
    He was born in Stageira, bordering Makedon kingdom, his father served in the court of Makedonian king Aminta III. In Plato’s Academy where he studied and subsequently worked he was considered a foreigner, but well tolerated. However, after plato died he had to leave and went to live as a guest of some of his former students in Asia Minor. In 343 BC he was offered the job of tutoring young Alexander. In 335 he was brought to Athens by Alexander who concurred the city and opened Lycaeum as a rival to Plato Academy. After the death of Alexander, Aristotle had to run to save his life due to the high anti Makedonian movement. He died in exile.
    Ref.: Arrian -Anabasis Alexandri
    Plutarch – Paralel Lives
    Diodorus – Bibliotheca Historica
    Q. C. Rufus – Historiae Alexandri Magni

    • Agree: Adûnâi
  65. RT says:
    @Vojkan

    Why this is a “fact”?

  66. @Alfred

    Yes I understand that Greek civilization had a huge impact on Roman law, culture and education for the upper class and therefore on western civilization through to the founders of our once great republic. I just meant that Alexander’s Empire broke into three distinct entities upon his death unlike Rome which continued for some 800 years.

    • Replies: @Muggles
  67. @Peter Akuleyev

    The Macedonian/Bulgarian languages are so degraded grammatically relative to the other Slavic languages

    Interesting that you consider the disappearance of grammatical cases a degradation. It’s a major simplification, yes, but degradation?
    In this respect Macedonian/Bulgarian languages are identical to the English language which, applying the same logic, would be considered a “degraded Germanic” language.
    Among other things, its simple grammar helped English become the common language of the modern world.

    • Replies: @Adûnâi
  68. Adûnâi says: • Website
    @Agathoklis

    > “Unfortunately, that does not mean they will remove the kitsch statues to a culture they officially have no cultural connection too.”

    Why are you disparaging of the statues? I don’t get it. Sure, they might not be the best in the world, or authentic, but at least they are trying? Isn’t it better than to have no statues? Or to have giant buttplugs for statues? Or some ugly structuralist monstrosities?
    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2014/oct/20/paul-mccarthy-butt-plug-sculpture-paris-rightwing-backlash
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structuralism_(architecture)

    • Agree: Poco
  69. What may be exceptionally tragic about the Alexander victory over the Persians, is that it represented the triumph of Western slavery cultures over the anti-slavery Asian ones, some of which were much more advanced and spiritual and humane at the time

    It is too-little recalled in the West that Persia 2500 years ago, gave us the world’s ‘first human rights document’, the Cyrus cylinder in the picture below … Cyrus sought to grant freedom of religion and an end to slavery throughout his empire

    As well, slavery was not a major part of ancient India, and apparently its caste system involved much more mobility than the modern one, with no ‘untouchables’ of a degraded order … Kingdoms of ancient India as well became the first nations to abolish the death penalty, some time approaching 2000 years ago … Here’s the Cyrus Cylinder, purloined for the British Museum as such things often are

    • Replies: @Robjil
  70. Gruben says:

    In Skopje I was told several arguments why ancient Macedonians had a different origin than the Greeks;
    -The ancient Macedonians were not allowed to participate in the Olympic games, as they were considered by the Greeks to be barbarians. Only after Philipp conquered Greece Macedonians were allowed to participate.
    – When Alexander talked to his Macedonian generals, the Greek officers of his army did not understand their conversation.
    – There are some words known of the language of the ancient Macedonians. These words are not belonging to a Greed vocabulary.
    But there is no doubt the ancient Macedonians were under very strong influence of Greek culture, in a similar way as later the Romans and still today all of us.
    If you visit the tomb of King Philipp II. In Vergina, you see not one inscription, nothing written. Isn’t Greeks culture dominated by written texts, books, inscriptions?. If even at the time of Alexander the Great the Macedonians buried their king without anything written then they must have still been under the influence of non-Greek traditions.

    • Replies: @RT
  71. Robjil says:
    @brabantian

    Netanyahu likes Cyrus and thinks Trump is a new one. Well, Cyrus created that Temple monster frenzy we have today. The third temple “Must be built. Must be built. Must be built.” It like a Frankenstein like monster repeating endlessly the same phrase. Not sure he was so good after all for our planet

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/who-is-king-cyrus-and-why-is-netanyahu-comparing-him-to-trump/

    I want to tell you that the Jewish people have a long memory, so we remember the proclamation of the great king, Cyrus the Great, the Persian king 2,500 years ago. He proclaimed that the Jewish exiles in Babylon could come back and rebuild our Temple in Jerusalem. We remember a hundred years ago, Lord Balfour, who issued the Balfour Proclamation that recognized the rights of the Jewish people in our ancestral homeland. We remember 70 years ago, President Harry S. Truman was the first leader to recognize the Jewish state. And we remember how a few weeks ago, President Donald J. Trump recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Mr. President, this will be remembered by our people through the ages.

    • Replies: @mark tapley
  72. RT says:
    @Gruben

    The Makedonians buried their dead – the Greeks cremated them. The burial rituals as well as rituals of birth and marriage are the most enduring the time and the most telling the differences between nations.

  73. @Peter Akuleyev

    ‘Greek was still a prestige language of the Ottoman Empire right up to 1918. Still, I suspect most of the Slavs in Greece only really started speaking Greek in the 20th century when the State became powerful enough to introduce compulsory schooling, radio, and widespread literacy.’

    That’s more or less my understanding. I’m venturing into matters I don’t know much about, but my impression is that modern ‘Greek’ was more or less invented as a revival of classical Greek — then imposed on people speaking various dialects, some descended from Greek, some not so closely related.

    Even as late as World War Two, Greek partisans in Northern Greece were embarrassed by the greater success Yugoslav Partisans enjoyed in the region. You see, the peasantry often still spoke dialects that were Slavic in origin rather than Greek.

    To expand on all this, it should be noted that the ancient Greeks were largely people of the islands and coasts — they settled islands and coasts all the way from Sicily to the eastern end of the Black Sea. But the interior tended to be a different matter.

    Modern Greece is a totally different proposition. It defines a solid bloc of territory — coast and interior — as ‘Greece.’ It more or less is now, but that didn’t happen by itself.

  74. RT says:

    The story about Alexander talking to his Makedonian Hetairi, so the Greeks do not understand, is from Calisthenes, a contemporary and follower of Alexander.
    The Greeks always had this hysterical obsession of declaring everything to be of Greek origin. For example, when Alexander’s army took Persepolis the Makedonians went to loot the city. The Greeks went to burn the ancient Persian library, one of the richest at the time, thus destroying the historical documents of not Greek origin. Also in Calisthenes. So, only the Greek version of history lives. When the Ottomans took the Bulgarian capital, the Greeks in the Ottoman army burned the library, one of the richest at the time, it took them two weeks to burn it. The same thing again.
    Ancient Greeks gave Humanity a lot, but Greeks also destroyed a lot.

    • Agree: Supply and Demand
  75. To turn all this around, though, one can wonder if being Greek was ever primarily an ethnic identity.

    Surely all those roaming city founders and slave owners interbred with the local yokels a lot. One thinks here of the process that characterized much of central Europe up until two hundred years or so ago, where individuals would drift from the largely Slavic countryside into the largely ‘German’ cities. Eventually, they or their descendants would be quite sure they were Germans themselves.

    So modern Greece may simply be replicating what classical Greece did. Taking bits and bobs and turning them into ‘Greeks.’ Perhaps the identity always was cultural rather than genetic.

    • Replies: @Majority of One
    , @karel
  76. RT says:
    @Cyrano

    In the 90s, during the war in Yougoslavia, I learned Serbian. I already knew Russian, so it was not that difficult. All Slavic languages are very similar and mutually understandable. And I have a gift for languages. Then five years later during the Kosovo war, I was in Makedonia, so I learned Makedonian. Then Bulgarian military arrived, they built one of the refugy camps. I thought. OK, now I will learn some Bulgarian. To my dismay, I already knew it. There is no similarity between Bulgarian and Makedonian, they are identical, the same language.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
  77. @Robjil

    The Kazar thugs always make every effort to try to tie themselves to the real Biblical Jews of whom they have no genetic connection. The Kazars are not even semitic as they have no lineage to the scion Abraham as do the Arabs through Hagar and the true Jews through Sarah.

    If not for the Balfour declaration addressed to Lord Rothschild and enforced by the Jew lackey British army the Arabs would have eliminated these Zionist thugs before they ever got a good foothold. Shabbos goy Truman put in office by Jew money (like Trump) was the second leader to recognize the Kazar criminals after their other shabbos goy helper Stalin. If Jewmerica would cut off the 11 million plus that we give them every day, the Arabs would still take care of this Zionist cancer on humanity.

    • Replies: @Majority of One
  78. Adûnâi says: • Website
    @Simpleguest

    “Interesting that you consider the disappearance of grammatical cases a degradation.”

    It is a pain to google anything in Russian, as the cases make it impossible to use quotation marks. This way, the analytic nature of English is of benefit in the digital age.

    The free word order of synthetic Russian irritates me to no end, too. The local Ukrainian writers evidently find it pleasurable and prestigious to use the abominable OVS word order for no reason.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object–verb–subject

  79. Hegar says:

    In Belgrade, a woman told me Serbs sprung from the Vinča Culture, which dates to 5700BC, so her ancestors didn’t only arrive in the Balkans in the 8th century, after all. They’ve always been there. She also claimed there were Serbs among Alexander the Great’s troops, with many of their descendants now living in Pakistan.

    This is very typical of Serbs, Croats and Bosnian Muslims. They will make up whatever fits them.

    An officer in the UN forces during the war said it was hopeless to talk to Croat officers, who were supposed to be friendly to the UN.

    “Have you distributed the rice in the town?”
    The answer was always yes. Even though you’d find out the next day that of course they hadn’t.

    “Have you cleared this road from mines?”
    They’d always say yes. And then a vehicle hit a mine.

    When a UN vehicle was hit by a car, the villagers nearby all came to shout at the UN soldiers and started throwing rocks. They wanted to be appeased with apologies and more gifts from the wealthy Westerners. Just like Africans in a warzone.

    Two Bosnian Serb women had grown up in the West, and worked as interpreters for the UN. They were disgusted by the constant lying in Bosnia, even from their own relatives. One woman’s brother had gone there to live with his relatives for some weeks, but he only lasted four days. He slept in his car. They made up lies to make themselves look big, and they were full of absolute, murderous hatred of the Croatians their side had attacked.

    Old Serb women laughed and showed pride when hearing stories about Croatian or Muslim women being raped by Serbs. This is something feminists will never tell you. I’m sure that on the other side they did the same, but the Bosnian Serbs were absolute scum.

    Slobodan Milosevic, president of Serbia, tried to reign in Radovan Karadciz, the rapist who led the Serb attacks in Bosnia. His crimes were immense. They had prisons where they tied captured women to barbed wire out in the open, raping them. They forced men and women to drink gasoline from a puddle.

    Milosevic eventually washed his hands of him and refused further contact. Still he was prosecuted in the Hague for associating with Karadzic, and was refused enough time and resources to prepare his defense. Serbs had been paid to storm his residence and hand him over to the globalists. These Serbs were security personnel and police from cities loyal to those who starved and bombed Serbia, but they were declared “civilians” in the media. Milosevic’s cell was cold and small, and full of documents. When he asked for documentation the prosecution bombed him with tons of papers about every little detail, a common dirty tactic. He died in his cell. Afterward he was declared innocent of the charges. But I digress.

  80. Cyrano says:
    @RT

    There is no similarity between Bulgarian and Makedonian, they are identical, the same language.

    I know. If the Serbs and the Macedonians are brothers – which they are, the Macedonians and Bulgarians are identical twins. As for the Serbian brothers – even siblings can do stupid things, like the Serbs did in the 2nd Balkan war. Totally unforgivable, and for that they deserve the title of honorary Ukrainians.

  81. @Colin Wright

    Though I have yet to source it, my anecdotal understanding is that etymologically German surnames which end in the suffix “ow”. –as in Nienow or Turnow–strike me as being of a Slavic origin, related to the Russian “ov” or “off” or the south Slavic “ovitch” and “ovic”.

    From history, I do know that when the Teutonic Knights/Prussians expanded eastwards during the post-Carolingian era; the regions they assimilated included Slavic tribes such as the Old Prussians, the Kashubians, the Borusians, the Wends and some smaller entities. So far as I know, the assimilation process enveloping small tribes was also practiced by the Polish state.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  82. @mark tapley

    I have read reports that today’s Judaic peoples (there is NO Jewish People) include no more than a two to five percent proportion genetically descended from the ancient Hebrews.

    My favored location for a new Jewish state would be in the very sparsely settled northwestern corner of Western Australia. Jews who cannot live amongst other people without being predatory parasites could then have a place of their own once they had met the purchase price by the affected state and federal governments as well as generous relocation benefits for the few people who actually live in that lonely and desiccated part of the continent.

    • Agree: Druid
    • Replies: @mark tapley
  83. Notsofast says:
    @Robjil

    Its only a war crime if you lose, otherwise it’s collateral damage.

  84. mwee says:

    Any plans to visit other republics for more comprehensive picture of former YU?
    Wish that I am in Sarajevo since I would have loved to entertain you there, despite our differences when it comes to “dictator”.

  85. @Hegar

    Going back a generation, the Croats were far more bloodthirsty than the Serbs you describe. Under the fascist regime of Ante Pavelic, the Croats happily massacred entire villages of Serbs and also like their Nazi buddies, killed off every Gypsy, gay and Jew they could lay their hands on. During the recent troubles attendant upon the breakup of the Yugoslav state, the then leader of the Croats, FranjoTudjman, was in bed with the Vatican and with his Ustasha fascists.
    Oddly, during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the Serbs and Croats got along quite well. Both peoples speak Serbo-Croatian, but the Croats are Romanists, while the Serbs are of the Orthodox persuasion. Something happened between WWI and the dirty Thirties to create the enmity which continues to this day. Perhaps one of the many erudite posters here can fill us in.

    • Agree: Cyrano
  86. @Majority of One

    ‘From history, I do know that when the Teutonic Knights/Prussians expanded eastwards during the post-Carolingian era; the regions they assimilated included Slavic tribes such as the Old Prussians, the Kashubians, the Borusians, the Wends and some smaller entities. So far as I know, the assimilation process enveloping small tribes was also practiced by the Polish state.’

    Thanks. As I understand it, in Carolingian times the dividing line between Germans and Slavs lay along the Elbe — which comes out to the sea at Hamburg.

    The German expansion to the East wasn’t particularly genocidal. From this flows my suspicion that ‘Germans’ must be genetically at least partially Slavic.

  87. Tony says:

    Wandering around Belgrade, I ran into the Hells Angels of Serbia’s clubhouse. I tried its door to find it locked. Weeks later, I discovered the Hillbillies MC’s pub, so I went in, had a couple beers and looked around. Their logo featured a bearded, smiling skull in front of red wing

    Yeah ok. In reality you’all wouldve been too scared to even go near the place. Some of us know whats up.

  88. Jiminy says:

    The two young beggars photographed on the bridge look rather dark skinned. I thought they almost appear to be Indian. Would they be gypsies?

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  89. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Jiminy

    Yes, they’re Gypsies.

  90. Druid says:
    @ProudBLM

    What an idiotic observation/obfuscation! Shame!

  91. Vojkan says:
    @Hegar

    Slobodan Milosevic, president of Serbia, tried to reign in Radovan Karadciz, the rapist who led the Serb attacks in Bosnia. His crimes were immense. They had prisons where they tied captured women to barbed wire out in the open, raping them. They forced men and women to drink gasoline from a puddle.

    What a load of bullshit. The biggest problem we Serbs have with so-called Bosniaks is that they smell bad, real bad. So raping their women…

  92. HalconHigh says: • Website
    @Linh Dinh

    Linh

    Thanks for the cool & interesting stuff….”balls of Bucephalus” lol love it.

    The mere fact you replied to my post made my day and I’m most appreciative.

    I know it’s a million to one shot, but if ya ever make it back to the States and are anywhere near the southwest, I’ll buy beer all day long.

    Looking forward to your next article.

    Sullivan…aka Halcon

  93. Franz says:
    @Alden

    I believe Olympia was stoned to death soon after Alexander died.

    But at least she commanded an army first! After taking her place (in armor) ahead of the troops of Epirus…

    The Macedonian army surrendered without a fight; Olympias had the supporters of Cassander executed, but by then Cassander had escaped. Around this time, Olympias formed an alliance with Polyperchon, Antipater’s successor, and Eurydice, the wife of Philip III. The latter provided soldiers for Olympias to command in battle.

    Cassander maneuvered a surprise attack and Olympias fled; he then besieged Pydna, she fled again, and she finally surrendered in 316 BCE. Cassander, who had promised not to kill Olympias, arranged instead to have Olympias murdered by relatives of the people whom she had executed.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/queen-olympias-biography-3528390

    That’s when the rocks and bricks flew.

    Historians all say “Cassander was treacherous” but he told the literal truth. He didn’t kill her. He turned her over to her those who wanted to kill her more. That was the Macedonian way.

  94. @Majority of One

    Your figures are probably correct. I read that before WW1 the Native Jew population in Palestine was around 3-5%. Their was no problem between them and the Arabs and they were vehemently opposed to the influx of the European -Asian Kazars. There may be a remnant of ancient Hebrew DNA in todays Palestinians. Lots of Palestinians had been converted to Christianity but they are of no concern to the brainwashed Christian Zionists, determined to fulfill the Jew operative Scofield’s asinine prophecy of dispensational fantasy.

    I think your location for the homeland they truly deserve is much too generous. Northern Siberia would be more in line with the environment they imposed on their millions of victims in the gulags of their “workers paradise.” A good book on this is Tim Tzouliadis “The Forsaken.”

    • Replies: @Sunshine
  95. @Majority of One

    STFU. I’ve already dismantled rubbish like this one, but mentally retarded Unz readers keep on blabbering their usual nonsense. It’s not worth the trouble writing the same stuff over & over again.

    https://www.unz.com/?s=serbs&Action=Search&ptype=all&commentsearch=only&commenter=Bardon+Kaldian

  96. @Hegar

    An officer in the UN forces during the war said it was hopeless to talk to Croat officers, who were supposed to be friendly to the UN.

    When a UN vehicle was hit by a car, the villagers nearby all came to shout at the UN soldiers and started throwing rocks. They wanted to be appeased with apologies and more gifts from the wealthy Westerners. Just like Africans in a warzone.

    Those UN and other foreigners just go to those places for their high salaries, per diems, expenses, to help their careers along,and anything else they can get for themselves. It’s not surprising that they’re hated when this is what they do in disaster zones:

    It’s time to stop funding aid groups whose officials in disaster zones exploit women for sex
    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/502863-ngo-sex-abuse-funding/

    And go ask the 15th most influential Jew in the World, Co-Founder of Médecins Sans Frontières and Médecins du Monde, Member of the European Parliament, France’s Minister of Health, Minister of Foreign Affairs, and UN Representative in Kosovo, 1999–2001 Bernard Kouchner about the “Yellow House” and human organ trafficking by Kosovar terrorists from murdered Serbs, and he’ll laugh in your face and deny it all. Then go ask Carla Del Ponte the same thing and she’ll confirm it. So how come Kouchner on the ground in Kosovo in his UN overlord position didn’t know about it? Maybe he profited some too from this filthy business.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
  97. If Yugoslavia was an artificial construct then North Macedonia is the artificial construct par excellence. I somehow don’t see a long-term future for it as a state.

  98. Cyrano says:
    @Majority of One

    Croats were the earliest champions for Yugoslavia. Knowing that they’ll need the military muscle of the Serbs to free them from Austro-Hungary, and not wanting to be ruled by the Serbs directly, the concocted the idea of Yugoslavia.

    In their imaginarium, even though Yugoslavia was supposed to be created by the Serbs – militarily, they – the Croats were supposed to play the most prominent role in governing that country based on the “fact” that they possessed “superior” culture to the Serbs thanks to the lucky coincidence that the Croats were enslaved by Austro-Hungary, as opposed to the Serbs who were enslaved by the inferior Ottoman Turks – but who (the Serbs) nevertheless managed to free themselves from the Ottoman Turks without any help from the Croats.

    Bottom line, Croats needed Yugoslavia, Serbs didn’t – in order to realize their dream (or nightmare for some) of nationhood.

    • Agree: TheTotallyAnonymous
  99. “digged”?????? Come on, Linh Dinh, be real.

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  100. Sunshine says:
    @mark tapley

    They can go to the Jewish Autonomous Oblast. Birobidzhan is calling them!

    I also highly recommend “The Forsaken”. Absolutely haunting book.

    • Agree: mark tapley
  101. TJM says: • Website

    My dream is that Linh Dinh runs into a Zorba the Greek character and finds the soul, perhaps his own soul, in that ancient land.

  102. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @J. Alfred Powell

    Fear not, my man, this rock ain’t hollow, and of purpose digged! Plus, it almost rhymes. Sly rhymes are bestest…

  103. @Vojkan

    the Serbian territory in the former Yugoslavia comprises Serbia proper with Kosovo but without Vojvodina – which is if one is to be honest about it historically Hungarian

    Which really means Serbs came out ahead in the end. Trading the shitty rocks of Kosovo for the fertile plains of Vojvodina is brilliant.

  104. Vojkan says:

    Serbia didn’t conquer or steal Vojvodina. She got it as a consequence of the war of aggression Austria-Hungary launched against her. So there can be no talk of a trade off.
    Just for the sake of argument though, let’s assume it’s a trade off. How is losing the mineral riches of Kosovo, losing a seashore and leaving 2 million Serbs at the mercy of Islamic and Ustasha nutballs a positive trade off?
    The only positive trade off is that the West’s obsession with teaching Serbs a lesson has made it shoot itself in the foot. You love Turks, you love Albanians, you love Muslims, well then, you are served.

  105. gsjackson says:
    @Vojkan

    Bummer. I just arrived in Belgrade and won’t be going back to the U.S. until Crazy Time is over.

    I must say, though, that I formed a much better impression of Serbs when I was there for six weeks in 2014. They seemed friendly, politically aware, big personalities that come through in the English language. They’ve got every right to hate the U.S., but don’t hold it against individual Americans. And where else could you learn something like Hillary Clinton’s ownership of a factory in Kosovo? Serbs have been right where the rubber meets the road of Empire’s advances, and responded with admirable defiance.

    Could you possibly be a bit irrationally prejudiced against your own people?

    • Replies: @Vojkan
    , @Ray Caruso
    , @Biff
  106. Vojkan says:
    @gsjackson

    Well, I know Serbs for a little longer than six weeks. Still, others in the former Yugoslavia are far worse. There’s a lot of uncivil behaviour, of lying, cheating, thieving among Serbs and there are petty individuals, a lot of them are in politics, but unlike their former “brothers” in ex-Yugoslavia, pettiness is not in the national character.
    The fact that we make the right moral choices in historical moments is misleading. It’s not so much that we chose what is morally right, it’s just that the morally wrong side usually poses such conditions that we are left with no other choice than to fight it.

  107. Renoman says:

    I always enjoy your work, it’s like taking a trip myself. Thank you.

  108. karel says:
    @Robjil

    There were three bombing raids on Prague carried out by the American airforce between January and March. The raid on 14th February coincided with the bombing of Dresden and this coincidence was later exploited to create a legend that it was a mistake as the otherwise ”clever” planners confused Prague for Dresden. There are still enough fools who believe this nonsense as only seriously deranged pilots would not have known where they were. The raid on Prague happened on a sunny day while Dresden was still burning cf. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/firebombing-of-dresden. My mother told me that the glow of Dresden fires could be seen from hill tops in Prague. The raid on Prague was a deliberate criminal act to kill many civilians of an ally that joined the war effort against the Axis powers on 2nd October 1939. With allies like this, who needs any enemies.

    • Replies: @Vojkan
  109. karel says:
    @Colin Wright

    Perhaps you will reveal for us, which were ”the largely ‘German’ cities”. This kind of ambiguity is typical for your confusing contributions. Are you by any chance a direct descendent of some ” local yokels ” that accidentally interbred with Übermenschen?

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
  110. Vojkan says:
    @karel

    The “allies” also repeatedly bombarded Serbia between October 2oth, 1943 and September 18th, 1944. Belgrade was bombarded eleven times, Niš fifteen times. Thousands of civilians were killed. The “allies” didn’t bomb even once the “independent state of Croatia”.

  111. karel says: • Website
    @Vojkan

    Bohemia was rather lucky to be out of range for most of the war. But at the end of the war, there were not enough suitable targets in Germany so that the Americans had to use up their ”beautiful bombs”, to use the terminology of Trump. Hence, in some kind of murderous frenzy, they bombed even little towns like Mělnik, Neratovice, or Kralupy. Apparently, the inhabitants in Neratovice naively thought that they will not drop it on the old town center and watched the bombers with interest but soon they learned the lesson.

  112. @karel

    Pretty much every major town in modern Poland, Bohemia, Moravia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Hungary and Romania was culturally German in the late middle ages. They were often governed by local elites but economic activity was usually in the hands of German speaking townsfolk in a sea of non-German peasants. Towns like Prague, Brünn, Klausenburg (Cluj), Torun, Laibach (Ljubljana) and Pressburg (Bratislava) were still dominated by German speakers at the end of the 18th century.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @RT
    , @karel
    , @Arcadian
  113. @Vojkan

    Croatia had very little worth bombing. It was (and still is) largely a country of farmers, shepherds and fishermen. Serbia did have an industrial base.

  114. RT says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Did the allies used maps from the end of the 18th century to bomb these places?

    • Replies: @karel
  115. karel says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    I suppose that you must have counted the German population in the above cities in your wet dreams. In the 18th century, nothing existed that one may call a census. But perhaps you will pull some evidence out of your hat in support of your lie. Furthermore, the concept of national identity came to being only late in the 19th century. Up to then, the citizens identified with the locality of their abode and not the language they spoke. Most of the German-speaking city population were actually Jews, rather than Germans who immigrated from the Reich. Most of the landless peasants emigrating from Swabia or Bavaria to steal land in Bohemia did not get much further than to the border regions from which they were expelled after 1945. These German squatters were called by the locals ”skopčáci”, meaning people coming down from the hills, which makes sense if you look at the geography of the Bohemian borders. The centralized and with Alexander von Bach in power, neo-absolutist Habsburg monarchy supplied cretinous officials to the periphery just like the British Empire shipped loads of morons to India and Burmah to rule the natives. The stupidity and arrogance of the german speaking officials led eventually to their downfall as they could not or refused to master the Czech language and were gradually replaced by the bilingual Czechs.

  116. karel says:
    @RT

    A good point RT. I did not think of that. It is quite obvious that the allies possibly wanted to hit the evil Germans in those ”predominantly German cities”, like Prague. How very clever, but unfortunately no 18th-century maps, the allies relied on, showed any demarcation of the linguistic divisions.

    In Prague, quarters like Letná and Dejvice, favoured by Jews before the war, were repopulated by fresh nazis coming from the Reich with loads of children right after the former dwellers had either emigrated (before March 1939) or were deported at a later date. But somehow these quarters called by Czechs ”Little Berlin” were spared during the bombing raids. How very humane.

  117. Svigor says:
    @Majority of One

    the Croats happily massacred entire villages of Serbs and also like their Nazi buddies, killed off every Gypsy, gay and Jew they could lay their hands on.

    WTF, I love Croats now.

  118. @Vojkan

    You’re an idiot. A complete idiot. My great grandparents and great aunt were killed by Allied bombing in May 1944 when my hometown was bombed, you fucking idiot.

    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
  119. Arcadian says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    That’s exactly right. As for my home country of Silesia (which is equally true to Eastern Prussia/Ostpreußen) literally each town and city was established by Germans, you can see it when you look at the older buildings, there is nothing Slavic at them. Our family got the “von” – nobility – 1309AD from the German King, my forefathers lived there since at least the 12th century. Until 1945 the vast majority of the population was German. For example in my town over 96 percent, which did not prevent the League of Nations from giving it 1919 to the Poles (the same for the whole area of Upper Silesia which voted more than 90 percent for Germany).

    • Replies: @anon
    , @karel
  120. @Niccolo Soldo

    Which town was that? As far as I am aware Slovenia, Montenegro and Bosnia and Hezegovina were also bombed by the Allies during WWII but not Croatia. If you mean Zadar (Zara), yes it was heavily bombed but is was considered Italian not Croatian. Although Ante Pavelic declared it part of NDH after Italy capitulated the local Italian administration did not accept this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Zadar_in_World_War_II

    You can find the other targets here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_bombing_of_Yugoslavia_in_World_War_II

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
  121. anon[315] • Disclaimer says:
    @Robjil

    Similar to an American raid on Switzerland, also a mistake, albeit some 250km from Mannheim

  122. anon[315] • Disclaimer says:
    @Arcadian

    Yes, good post, I’d just add as a nuance being there were a lot of areas where the larger villages, towns, and certainly cities, were mostly/vastly German, while surrounding rural areas were Slavic. Of course, there was a reason that a number of regents from different countries/areas courted German settlers for many centuries. And finally, of course, there is recognition that while a geographic-ethnic “map view” of certain territories may suggest smallish German ‘pockets’ within vast Slavic areas, the normal reality of urban concentrations still mandates that population numbers, and cultural/economic activity still weigh in favor of the Germans.

    And I write also as the American grandson of German immigrants, one branch of which came from Breslau 🙂

    • Replies: @karel
  123. karel says:
    @Arcadian

    An amazing discovery of yours that in the ”older buildings, there is nothing Slavic at them”. What would be the type of an architectural element that is actually Slavic? I have lived in Prague for ages but have so far not noticed any ”Slavic” looking building. What architectural features should I look for?

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    , @Arcadian
  124. karel says:
    @anon

    If you knew something of a history, then I would not be so certain that your supposed ancestry is German. cf.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wroc%C5%82aw
    If your ”German immigrants”, were old settlers, then they would be either Czech or those ”Johny come lately” types who are descendants of yokels from the countryside, most of which, were Germanised in the 18th century.

  125. The author of this ridiculous article lacks basic knowledge of the history and culture of the Balkans. This is total bullocks and I’ve lost all respect for Linh. He did not mention that Macedonians rejected the political agreement with the Turkish Helenics and everything that has happened is unconstitutional and illegal. By publishing this propaganda piece, the UNZ is denying the Universal human rights of all Macedonians and right to self identify as we wish. Shame on you Linh! To the editor of the UNZ, this is totally unacceptable from a respected site.

  126. @karel

    Since most of the beautiful bits of Prague were built by Germans, or Italian architects hired by Germans, it is unlikely you would find any “Slavic” buildings there. Prague became “Czech” when it was inundated by Czech speaking peasants in the 19th century who came to work in the German and Jewish owned factories. A group of aggrieved intellectuals then coalesced to fight for the rights of this oppressed population (sound familiar?) and took on a “Czech” identity even though many of them had grown up speaking German. Masaryk is a prime example.

    Hitler of course came from a family that went the other way. Czech peasants who assimilated into German speaking Lower Austria. The Wehrmacht officers in WWII used to disparage him as the “Bohemian Corporal”.

    • Replies: @karel
    , @Colin Wright
    , @Arcadian
  127. @Commentator Mike

    You are correct. It is certainly a bit odd for an Italian to claim the allies bombed “Croatia” when an Italian war aim was to make Dalmatia Italian again.

  128. karel says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    You seem to have amnesia for the 15th and most of the 16th century when there were almost no Germans in Prague who left during and after the Hussite wars. But it is pointless to argue with you as you are as persistent in your convictions as Carolyn the Foxhunter. How can you be so certain that you are not a descendent of some yokels from the country? What is your pedigree, I would like to know?

    Hitler was a true Austrian. The expression ”Bohemian Corporal” was invented by Paul v. Hindenburg who in his dotage confused Braunau in Austria for Braunau in Bohemia.
    cf. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broumov
    As you are probably a Nazi leaning ”Strolch”, then you should praise the valiant Czech nation for giving the Germans and the world such a wonderful personality like Adolf. Be thankful for that and stop muttering about things you know nothing about.

  129. Vegas apes real places, and Skopje seems to ape Vegas. Horrific!

  130. @gsjackson

    I just arrived in Belgrade and won’t be going back to the U.S. until Crazy Time is over.

    Then I hope you like borek.

  131. @Peter Akuleyev

    ‘…Hitler of course came from a family that went the other way. Czech peasants who assimilated into German speaking Lower Austria. The Wehrmacht officers in WWII used to disparage him as the “Bohemian Corporal”.’

    I’m inclined to be skeptical of that — but something is perhaps telling. My impression is that Hitler’s oldest bias was not against Jews or Poles, but Czechs. It was somewhat ironic, since of the three groups, the Czechs wound up being the ones least mistreated by the Nazis.

    • Replies: @Wielgus
    , @karel
  132. Arcadian says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Since most of the beautiful bits of Prague were built by Germans, or Italian architects hired by Germans, it is unlikely you would find any “Slavic” buildings there.

    The same goes for today’s Poland. The most famous buildings – castles, palaces, representative buildings – were built by Germans or by Italian architects with German money.

    • Replies: @karel
  133. Wielgus says:
    @Colin Wright

    Hitler was born in Braunau, Austria, but there was a Braunau in Bohemia, now called Broumov, that was predominantly German-speaking, and it has been speculated that they thought he came from the Bohemian Braunau. Bohemian Germans tended to be regarded as hicks elsewhere in the German-speaking world, and regional snobbery may have played a part in references to him as Bohemian. This did not imply they thought he was Czech.
    Czech was very widely spoken in Vienna when Hitler was there in his youth, and they were the Slavic group he is most likely to have encountered. The penny pamphlets he seems to have read denouncing Jews quite often also complained about Czechs taking over “German Vienna”.

  134. Arcadian says:
    @karel

    What would be the type of an architectural element that is actually Slavic? I have lived in Prague for ages but have so far not noticed any ”Slavic” looking building.

    You got the point – this is exactly what I said: There is no Slavic architecture, not in Prague, not in Poland, nowhere. You may look into the Wikipedia-page:

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategorie:Architekturstil

    Out of the 89 architectural styles there I estimate about 40 – 50 are genuinely Germanic, influenced or further developed by Germans. What’s left of it after WWII in Poland is entirely German architecture.

    • Replies: @karel
  135. karel says:
    @Colin Wright

    Colin, from your statement, ”the Czechs wound up being the ones least mistreated by the Nazis” emmanates a great sadness that they were not mistreated somewhat more. Hitler must loved Czechs, is the obvious answer. A more mundane explanation is that the war machinery did not want to risk any disruption of weapon production. Czechs, just as Poles or Russians were intended for liquidation after the final victory, which fortunately never came. There is a a nice speech by Reinhard Heydrich on that subject. I have found only its Czech version but not the original one in German. cf.
    http://www.isstras.eu/cs/2018/05/18/3143/projev-reinharda-heydricha-o-planech-na-likvidaci-ceskeho-naroda/
    Not that it matters much, as I guess that appart from ”Jawohl”, there are no other German expressions you can master.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  136. karel says:
    @Arcadian

    From your great erudition, it seems that you must be a famous architect. Do not be so shy and send us an example of your latest designs. There is no typical German architecture in Prague e.g. the Nazi type in the style of Albert Speer. The fascist style, promoted by Mussolini, was much closer to the Czech heart and you can find few such buildings clad with travertine.

    I am still perplexed by what you mean by the expression ”Slavic architecture”. Show us an example, just for our amusement.

  137. karel says:
    @Arcadian

    A great revelation of yours that ”The most famous buildings – castles, palaces, representative buildings – were built by Germans or by Italian architects with German money.” The phrase ”with Germany money” said it all. You may be surprised to learn that the most famous buildings are now built by Ukrainians with Chinese money.

  138. @karel

    ‘…Not that it matters much, as I guess that appart from ”Jawohl”, there are no other German expressions you can master.’

    You really are an idiot, aren’t you?

  139. @Wielgus

    ‘…Czech was very widely spoken in Vienna when Hitler was there in his youth, and they were the Slavic group he is most likely to have encountered. The penny pamphlets he seems to have read denouncing Jews quite often also complained about Czechs taking over “German Vienna”.’

    Very hypothetically, one might also wonder if Hitler’s family tended be biased against Czechs. On the face of it, that’s plausible, and if Hitler imbibed that as a prejudice in childhood, it would have been the first form his xenophobia would have taken.

    • Replies: @Wielgus
  140. @Wielgus

    Basically right, but Hitler‘s family moved to Braunau. They were originally from the “Waldviertel”, a very poor region north of Vienna next to Moravia. And supposedly Bohemia before that. As to whether Hitler really had Slavic blood, who knows? Hitler’s ancestors were certainly poor enough and his line riddled with enough illegitimate births that it is hard to imagine Adolf was pure Race anything.

    It is hard to make a genetic distinction between Bohemian “Germans” and “Slavs” anyway since a lot of people were often bilingual up until 1945, and over the centuries it was quite common for people to switch identities depending on how the political wind was blowing, which church was better, whom they wanted to marry, or their economic prospects. It would be interesting to see a genetic study. Probably a lot of Bohemians are predominantly descended from the aboriginal Celt population. In any case Czechs are very different in temperament from “real” Slavs, like Poles, Slovaks or Russians. Czechs are very similar to Slovenians, who are also “pseudo Slavs”.

    • Replies: @Wielgus
  141. Wielgus says:
    @Colin Wright

    Quite possible. His family originated from the Waldviertel quarter of Lower Austria. Now it is right up against the Czech Republic, but although border areas of Bohemia tended at the time to be German-speaking, Czech-speaking areas were not far off geographically. In fact in his childhood he probably would have been more likely to encounter Czech speakers than Jews and speaking a different language, they would have been more identifiable.

  142. Wielgus says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    I recall a Serb saying that he could not stand Germans, and for him the worst Germans of all were the Czechs (!)
    Czechs certainly have a reputation for being somewhat sober and methodical, qualities often attributed to Germans but not to members of Slavic groups.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  143. Biff says:
    @gsjackson

    just arrived in Belgrade and won’t be going back to the U.S. until Crazy Time is over.

    You gonna live to be three hundred?

  144. @Wielgus

    ‘I recall a Serb saying that he could not stand Germans, and for him the worst Germans of all were the Czechs (!)’

    Given the location and history of Bohemia, one wonders just how distinct the Czechs and Germans would actually be.

    The converse can be seen in Melita Maschmann’s Account Rendered, in which the author recounts her experience leading a bunch of Bessarabian Germans being resettled in Poland during the war. They were most distressingly un-German in their behavior.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @Wielgus
  145. @Colin Wright

    As a further development of this line of thought, look up the ancestry of Hitler’s childhood friend, August Kubizek.

    Wikipedia gives it as ‘Sudeten-German and Czech.’

    People want these lines to be crisp, clean, and absolute. Actually, they tend to be kind of blurry.

    • Replies: @karel
  146. karel says:
    @Colin Wright

    Jawohl, Herr Colin! I suspected that a single word will make you go into a tailspin and there you are. This delightful news brightened me up on that dreary Tuesday so much that I spent singing lewd Czech songs for most of the afternoon. In any case, I hope that you will soon seek professional advice to do something about your obsessions.

    You put too much trust in Wikipedia with their ” crisp, clean, and absolute” lines. If you think that Linz has something to do with the Nazi Arcadia, the famous Sudetenland, then you are no better than the old dotard Paul v. Hindenburg. Never mind, Linz is not so far away, just a few standard deviations from the assumed target, a mistake any American professor of Geography could have easily made.

  147. Wielgus says:
    @Colin Wright

    Reich Germans sometimes doubted the German-ness of Volksdeutsch. One who helped a family of them move in somewhere in German-annexed Poland noted that their name was Kolodziejewicz, they spoke German badly and were really Poles rather than German, whatever the documents said.
    Category III and IV Volksdeutsch from Poland or the Protectorate could be called up into the German armed forces but seem to have been regarded as Poles or Czechs by their officers, whatever their official status.

    • Replies: @karel
  148. Wielgus says:

    I have had some trouble finding it otherwise I would link to it, but I once found on the Web a German training manual for troops that used a lot of cartoon-style pictures and very basic German text. It may have been intended for Volksdeutsche although it is also possible it was aimed at Hiwis or Osttruppen who were not considered German at all but were sometimes expected to pick up basic German.

  149. Muggles says:
    @usNthem

    One thing Europeans across the board have down are statues and fountains – like nothing we have in the states.

    Of course they have been putting these up for about 3,000 years or so, in some places. So they have quite a lead.

    Here in the States the neo commies are tearing down statues. They have done that periodically in Europe too, due to political changes. But here it is just stupidity and meanness.

    Come back to the USA in 2,500 years and the place with be covered with statues. We will eventually put up most of the ones being torn down now.

  150. Muggles says:
    @Alden

    I don’t know if he invented military police/political commissars. But he had an entire army standing behind the battles ready to kill anyone who retreated. So did the French revolutionary army from the very first. Napoleon continued the practice.

    The Bolsheviks did it too, both in the civil war and WW2.

    This is a very old, ancient practice. The details vary widely but nearly all armies have special police or units which deter or round up deserters. In the UK they called them “battle police.”

    Few were so obvious as the special NKVD units who machine gunned anyone retreating w/o orders. But desertion under fire has long been considered a capital crime by the military. Patriotism only goes so far, for some.

    In many old battle accounts, it is the famous generals or leaders who using swords, etc. rally the panicking soldiers back to the front. Usually the role of all officers. In older times “breaking ranks to the rear” meant quick defeat, but were very hard to stop once begun.

  151. Muggles says:
    @mark tapley

    I just meant that Alexander’s Empire broke into three distinct entities upon his death unlike Rome which continued for some 800 years.

    There are many reasons for this, obviously, Alexander single-handedly created “his” empire which even his own troops finally forced him to stop expanding (in what is now Pakistan.)

    Roman’s “empire” was originally a quasi democratic republic until Augustus (and Julius, for a while). So Rome had hundreds of years to form itself. Alexander’s had only a few decades.

    Romans spent a lot of time building military roads and exporting their legal system and education of the local elites. They had centuries to build it.

    Ultimately Alexander’s brief empire failed due to command & control. Much too big, and no longer had his personal godlike charisma to sustain itself. Rome was an “idea” that lasted until roughly 1100 AD when the Turks and Crusaders overran the Byzantine (eastern) Roman empire. Early Turk maps showed most of modern Turkey as “Rum” (i.e. Rome). up until then.

    The original western Roman Empire crashed due to command & control problems, corruption and unstable “imperial” governance, among other things. Too many “undocumented migrants” as well.

  152. karel says:
    @Wielgus

    You are somewhat inaccurate in that the Sudetendeutsche, who wanted so badly ”Heim ins Reich” acquired after 1938 German citizenship and thus could not qualify as Volkdeutsche. They had to serve in the Wehrmacht.

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