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So now I’ve been to the Plain of Jars. Among places, it has among the most evocative of names. It sounds so plain, yet so poetic, because we simply don’t associate any plain, or meadow, with jars, and we’re not talking about Mason ones here, but stone, and huge, with the largest ten feet tall and weighting 14 tons.

The average Lao man is only 5’3”, and the average woman, 4’11,” so these tiny people used iron tools to shape and hollow out thousands of these funerary urns made of sandstone, granite, conglomerate, limestone or breccia, except that they didn’t, because the current inhabitants of Laos weren’t here two thousand years ago, when these jars were made.

Laos have their own explanations. Some believe these jars were used by a race of giants to brew and store alcohol, in celebration of a hard-fought military victory. Whatever their size, they had the surplus time and wealth to make such expensive coffins.

Even when well-documented, history is filled with distortions, if not outright lies, and though some of our greatest achievements may survive our protean and often gleeful destruction, their significance is often lost.

The Plain of Jars has many more secrets, not least the CIA’s Secret War. Initiated by Eisenhower, it would be clandestinely sanctioned and escalated by Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon. It was here that the “intelligence” agency became a rogue fighting force, accountable to neither the Pentagon nor Congress, much less the eternally clueless American public. Using unprecedented airpower and a proxy army, the Hmong, the CIA’s Secret War in Laos provided the template for other American interventions, down to our days. Instead of using troops to conquer an enemy, America would just bomb the targeted society into submission. It would be machine against flesh, often civilian. Drones have no conscience, never cower and cannot be mourned.

Tiny, thus weak, Laos has long been intruded on, however. Just since the 19th Century, this Land of a Million Elephants has been invaded by the Thais, Burmese and Vietnamese, not to mention the White Tais and their fearsome Chinese ally, the Black Flag Army.

Bet you haven’t heard of this punk band. Led by the Hakka Liu Yongfu, the Black Flag were bandits and mercenaries. Fighting against the French on behalf of the Vietnamese, it killed Francis Garnier, the conqueror of Hanoi. Always looking for a blood bath, Liu ended up in Taiwan in 1895, where he was immediately made a brigadier general of the fleeting Formosa Republic. Promptly defeated by the Japanese, Liu fled Taiwan on a British ship, disguised as a coolie. Don’t you believe, not even for a second, slanderous accounts that insist Liu was dressed as a hag. May the nearest black flag lance, repeatedly and with a twisting motion, such reckless rumor mongers!

Visiting Laos in 1950, Norman Lewis never made it to the Plain of Jars, for the roads were much worse then. Plus, there were the Khmer Issarak and Viet Minh guerrillas to avoid. With frightful understatement, here’s how Lewis describes an accident in his convoy, “On our right was a precipice, but the vegetation was so thick that you could get no idea of the drop […] we were nosing our way round the hill, keeping a lookout for occasional gaps in the road left by subsidences, when the lorry ahead suddenly turned off the road and went over the side. Gently, almost, it was lowered from sight amongst the bamboos. Up till the last fraction of a second before a thousand graceful stems screened it from our view it was still upright and quite level. The soldiers in it had hardly risen from their seats and raised their arms not so much in alarm, it seemed, as to wave farewell.” Even then, multiple deaths in Laos hardly registered.

My 10-hour minibus trip from Vientiane to Phonsavan, the portal to the Plain of Jars, was nowhere nearly as eventful, but with all the potholes and switchbacks on endless mountain passes, I disembarked feeling like hell anyway. I am not young.

In the lobby of my one-star Nice Guesthouse, I noticed some Pathet Lao weapons on the floor, as decorations, but over the next several days, it was much more common to run into American bombshells, literally hundreds of them. They fronted restaurants, hotels and travel agencies, and were used in the countryside as columns and fence posts. Inside the Dokkhoune Guesthouse, cluster bombs, artillery shells and ammunition belts were stacked on mesh wired shelves, and outside a huge wedding banquet hall, several dozen yellow bombs, with many rusted brown, stood sentry to lend, I don’t know, a macabre tint to each matrimony.

Luang Prabang, Vang Vieng, Vientiane and Si Phan Don all receive many more visitors than out-of-the-way Plain of Jars, so on my minibus, I was the only non-Lao, yet even in Phonsavan (pop. 40,000), there’s an excellent Indian restaurant, and even a highly regarded Italian one, with a Genoese owner and a Spanish chef, one who had learnt his craft in il bel paese.

The most conspicuous foreigners, though, were Vietnamese. They ran all types of businesses throughout town. At Phonxay Restaurant, I noticed two scrolls on the wall with Vietnamese writing, so I talked to its owner. Seventy-one-years-old, she came to Phonsavan in 1955.

Nineteen Vietnamese families were recruited to this area by the Chinese Communists, she said, to clear the land. Chinese Communists in Laos? So that’s another secret. Struck by various jungle sicknesses, some Vietnamese died soon after arrival.

“There were so few doctors, and almost no medicines,” she said.

“Of those 19 families, how many are left?”

“We’re the only one! Most left for Vientiane, or even overseas. They dropped a lot of bombs here.”

“Were you here during that entire time?”

“Yes, I was. When you hear them coming, you have to jump into a hole. We had holes dug all over.”

A bomb shelter at a home received a direct hit, so 11 people died, she said, from two families, “It was worst for three years. From 1969 until 1971. In 1972, it stopped.”

“How long would it last, each bombing?”

“It would last for ten minutes, but another wave would come, then another wave!”

“So how long would it last altogether, sister?”

“On the worst day, it went from 6 in the morning until 7 at night.”

“So you just had to stay in the hole all day long?”

“Yes, but some people got out early…”

“And they died?”

“Yes. When we came out, all the houses were gone,” and she swept her arm to indicate the entire street. “All gone, so we had to go into the woods to dig up cassavas to eat. We also made soup with wild flowers.”

Roses, daisies, banana flowers, cowslip creepers, Egyptian riverhemps and mountain ebonies are all edible, among others. There’s a proverb, “A phoenix, starved, will eat chicken shit.”

ORDER IT NOW

The horrors of war are often drowned out by heroic propaganda or rendered much less bloody through dry historical accounts, penned by academics, but there’s a slim book, Voices from the Plain of Jars, that allows suffering civilians to recount their terror filled existence under constant American bombs.

Edited by Frederic R. Branfman, it has a foreword (in the second edition) by Alfred W. McCoy, who notes, “Since there is no other book written by the villagers of Indochina, these ‘voices’ can, in a sense, speak for the countless Vietnamese and Cambodians who also suffered under the U.S. bombing. Not only does the 2.1 million tons of bombs dropped on Laos from 1965 to 1973 rank among the largest air wars of the twentieth century, exceeded only by the 2.7 million tons dropped on Cambodia, but it also was a precursor for the way wars would be fought in the twenty-first century and beyond […] this book recovers an obscure yet significant moment in military history and documents an air war so intense that it became a testing ground for a new form of global force projection.” The CIA’s Secret War in Laos reverberates into everyone’s life, in short, as long as the American Empire is extant.

When not conducting secret wars, your clean-cut CIA merely runs drugs, for the American government is the world’s largest, most successful and coolest criminal outfit. Losing nearly every war, it always returns a boffo profit for its handlers. McCoy is known for his groundbreaking book, The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade, Afghanistan, Southeast Asia, Central America.

In Voices from the Plain of Jars, there’s a drawing by a 33-year-old woman that shows three planes dropping bombs on a decapitated head, a severed arm and two mangled bodies, with this narration, “A life whose only value was death. I saw this in the village of my birth, as every day and every night the planes came to drop bombs on us. We lived in holes to protect our lives. There were bombs of many kinds, as in this picture I have drawn. It is not beautiful but it shows the shooting and death from the planes, and the destruction of the bombs. This kind of bomb would explode in the air and was much more dangerous than other ones. I saw my cousin die in the field of death. My heart was most disturbed and my voice called out loudly as I ran to the houses. Thus, I saw life and death for the people on account of the war of many airplanes in the region of Xieng Khouang. Until there were no houses at all. And the cows and buffalo were dead. Until everything was leveled and you could see only the red, red ground […]” The book is filled with such accounts.

For the record, about 40,000 Laos have died from American bombs, with nearly half of these killed after the war, from the millions of ordnances, especially cluster ones, left all over eastern Laos, an area corresponding exactly to the Ho Chi Minh Trails or controlled by the Pathet Lao, before they took over the entire country.

Since the Vietnamese Communists were responsible for both the Ho Chi Minh Trails and the creation of the Pathet Lao, it can be said they brought war into Laos, though of course, they’ve always characterized themselves as liberators, but this is typical of invaders. Vietnamese Communists were also instrumental in building up the Khmer Rouge, one must remember, and a Vietnamese, Pham Van Dac, even became head of the Malaysian Communist Party.

In any case, Laos on the Plain of Jars didn’t ask for Vietnamese soldiers to be on their land, an introduction to Karl Marx or American bombs to shatter their entire society. Like the littlest people everywhere, throughout history, they simply suffered the consequences of outrageous if not incomprehensible decisions, made by unseen hands, way above their wretched station.

Returning to Phonxay Restaurant several times, I found out more about its owner. A widow, she had been married to a Lao, with whom she had eight children. One had become a doctor in Vientiane, and another was an IT whiz living in India, “He’s very smart. When he was still here, he told me, ‘I must learn English. If you know English, you can do everything.’ It took him three years.”

“That’s very good. So the schools here are not bad?”

“No. He learnt English right near here.”

This son had actually been to 45 countries, she proudly repeated, “When he was small, he didn’t go out, he only studied, so everybody thought he was just a nerd. He never smoked or drank alcohol, but now he’s traveling everywhere!”

She herself had been nearly nowhere, and had only returned to Vietnam three times in 65 years. On one of those week-long trips, she was reunited with a lost brother.

Towards the end of the Japanese occupation of Vietnam during World War II, up to two million Vietnamese starved to death. To stave off this fate, her parents sold two of their children, a 7-year-old son and a 9-month-old girl, to rich but childless families.

“My parents missed my brother so much, they kept coming by his new family to visit him, until they were told to stop it! Fifty years later, in 2004, we were reunited. My brother Dai remembered that his ancestral village was called Làng Tre [The Bamboo Village], so that’s how he was able to find our relatives.”

“There was just that one meeting?”

“Yes, my mother cried so much.”

“And has he come to visit you in Laos?”

“No, but he has visited a brother in Vientiane, several times.”

As for the nine-month-old, she was lost forever.

Of my traveling, the old lady said, “That’s good. It’s good to see things. We’re like a lamp. Today, it’s still lit, but tomorrow, it’s out, and that’s it!”

The nearest jars were miles outside Phonsavan, so I could either join a tour, no way, or hire my own driver. The guy I found was a 50-year-old Vietnamese tuk-tuk operator.

In Vientiane, I had stumbled onto graves of Vietnamese who had been born in Laos. Even if they had never been to Vietnam, they never ceased to see themselves as Vietnamese. Later in Luang Prabang, I would encounter many more Vietnamese graves, including one of an indigent, judging by her modest grave, who was known only as “Mrs. Fat Five.” With no proper name, birthplace or age at death, she was still Vietnamese and buried among her own kind, by her own people.

In 2017, I met Vietnamese in Chanthaburi, Thailand, whose ancestors had come as early as the mid-19th century. Though almost none could speak Vietnamese, they persisted in praying in what they thought was Vietnamese in their grand church, the biggest in Thailand.

A third-generation immigrant, my tuk-tuk driver, Trung, was married to a Lao, and in day-to-day life, almost no one even knew he was Vietnamese, he stated.

ORDER IT NOW

His grandfather had come to Laos, “to help the Lao Revolution,” and his father and two older brothers had also fought for the Communist cause there. As a reward, the Vietnamese government had given one of Trung’s two children a college scholarship, so the kid had been in Vietnam for three years, with everything paid for. Barely making a living, Trung had never been to Vietnam.

From Trung, I found out another Plain of Jars secret, “The Hmong used to shoot at passing cars and buses.”

“At Vietnamese?”

“No, at everybody. At Laos, too. They didn’t want anybody here.”

“When was this?”

“Until the 80’s, then our troops [meaning the Vietnamese] came in to sweep them away. Only we could do it. We cleaned them from the caves.”

Speaking of caves, there was one right at the Plain of Jars Site 1 that had been used by the North Vietnamese Army as a command post, a fact that was casually relayed to me by a Vietnamese woman in Phonsavan. Inside and outside this cave, there were many tiny, crude rock memorials, like the most infantile stupas, which indicated many people had been killed there, but there was no explanation.

On my last evening in town, I invited two Laos out for drinks, for I was told they needed to practice their English. For my part, I wanted to hear their stories, and everyone has hundreds of them, at least.

One man was tiny and had a triangular face. He wore a white dress shirt with a burgundy tie. A 23-year-old student of business administration, his name was Chue Ha, so he was a Hmong.

Square jawed, unsmiling and even rigid, the second man wore a military jacket, which was appropriate, for he was a colonel in the Lao Army. Thirty-five-years-old, his name was Xai Thong.

They’re both from Xieng Khouang Province. Xai Thong had traveled around Laos, but never beyond it, and Chue Ha had only ambulated within a hundred-mile radius. For four years, though, he did live in a Vietnamese boarding school in Nonghet, near the Vietnamese border. Over and over again, I would run into Vietnamese influences in Laos, for their footprint there is second only to the Chinese.

The younger man was already married, with two kids, while the grave colonel was still single. He did have a girlfriend, “Next year, she go to Vietnam, to study, so I go to see her.”

“Where will she be?”

“Da Nang.”

“Ah, you should go to Hoi An! Hoi, An. It’s near Da Nang.”

“Where you go next?”

“After this, I will go to Luang Prabang. I will stay there for maybe a week.”

“Very beautiful, Luang Prabang. I know Luang Prabang.”

“I am looking forward to my visit.”

“In Luang Prabang, you should see Mount Pussy.”

“Huh?” I tried not to smile, even with my eyes.

“Yes, Mount Pussy. Very beautiful. On Mount Pussy, you will see Pussy Temple. Also very beautiful.”

“I will ask for it.”

“After Luang Prabang, where you go?”

“I will go back to Vietnam, to Dien Bien Phu. I was there in 1995. I want to see it again.”

“If my English is good, I can travel.” If this man ever smiles, his face might shatter. “Next time you come here, I show you around, with my truck.”

From Xai Thong, I found out another Plain of Jars secret. About a hundred Russian soldiers, he said, were training in the immediate area.

“Wow! I haven’t seen any Russian in Laos!”

“I see them.”

With Uncle Sam and his bombs out of the way, other foreign players are busy plotting Laos’ next chapter. In Luang Prabang, I would skip Mount Phousy and its lovely temple, but in nearby Pha O, I spent half an hour inspecting an impressive Chinese railroa d bridge, under construction, that spanned the Mekong, plus a tunnel, one of many, that drilled deeply into a mountain. All the supporting facilities and suppliers were Chinese, not to mention nearly the entire workforce, with its familiar dormitories. A vast shopping center nearby was also Chinese. Though empty, it will undoubtedly be flushed with tenants, shoppers and cash once the trains start rolling.

Just as the Hmong have no choice but to be integrated into Laos, Laos seem destined to be sucked into an increasingly Chinese universe, and so will you, short of this chessboard being kicked over by you know who.

In Voices from the Plain of Jars, many refugees spoke of their desire to return home as soon as possible. A seventeen-year-old man related, “Since I have come to live in Vientiane, the only good thing has been that we are not afraid of airplanes; nothing else. If there were no war, truly I would not want to be here […] Although my region is in the countryside and not developed, that does not matter to me, for it is the place that nurtured me and has been the home of my ancestors long gone, a place once full of pagodas and prosperity, with a fresh and pleasant climate […] If the war ever ends, I will return to my village that very day. And if there is no plane to take me, I will walk all the way.”

This echoes what Norman Lewis wrote in 1950 about the Hmong, “They are utterly incapable of bearing, even for the shortest time, other than cool and temperate climates. Being self-supporting, they rarely come down to visit the markets of the plains and valleys, and when obliged to cultivate fields below the 3000 feet line, they always return to their villages to sleep […] Besides the [Hmong’s] predilection for mountain tops they have other claims to distinction. They are utterly independent and quite fearless. Their passion for freedom compels them to live in the smallest of villages and, apart from such rare events as the invasion of 1860, they will not tolerate chiefs or leaders. If forcibly brought to lower altitudes they are soon taken ill and die.”

ORDER IT NOW

Living in a mountainous and landlocked country with hardly any roads, Laos often relied on their isolation as a shield and refuge, for even when Luang Prabang or Vientiane was sacked, burnt and looted, there was always the jungle, with its tiny, hidden hamlets, to flee to or hide in. With modern aerial warfare, and now new highways, bridges and media to accelerate the importation of everything alien, what it means to be Lao has been much whittled down, just like its fauna, just like us all.

We, too, are Hmong wrested from our mountains. Forward!

Linh Dinh’s latest book is Postcards from the End of America. He maintains a regularly updated photo blog.

 
• Category: Culture/Society • Tags: Laos, Vietnam War 
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  1. mario964 says:

    What about Hmong entrenched tradition of abduction and rape marriage of very young girls?
    Nothing to say?

    • Replies: @Ko
    , @Colin Wright
  2. RJJCDA says:

    The 17th parallel separating the north from the south during the Vietnam war, if extended across the Laotian panhandle would have ended the war in late 1965 or early 1966 as advocated by Gen Krulak, and seconded by Norman Hannah and Harry Summers. But the U.S. had a “tacit understanding” with the north not to do this, while the north ignored Laotian sovereignty. A farce leading to tragedy.Most estimates are that the casualties of that war would have been reduced by about 90% for ALL sides if this had been implemented.

    The Vietnam war cannot be understood unless one looks at a map of S.E. Asia and the barrier of the mighty Mekong river. The north later confirmed that they could not have won if Krulak’s strategy had been implemented for to skirt around the extended DMZ would have resulted in fierce Thai resistance and efforts to cross the Mekong under attack would be fatal.

    • Agree: Oscar Peterson
  3. Ko says:
    @mario964

    What the hell is wrong with you?

    • Replies: @eah
  4. Ko says:

    Hey Man,

    That was a masterpiece of a read.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  5. mario964 says:

    Still waiting for the day Mr. Linh Dinh will tell us something about it.

    Meanwhile I kindly advise to read:
    The Washington Post
    The ‘open secret’ of abused Hmong child brides goes public in Minnesota lawsuit
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/09/28/the-open-secret-of-abused-hmong-child-brides-goes-public-in-minnesota-law-suit/

    Hmong are so fond of their tradition of kidnapping and rape child brides that they keep doing it even after having settled in the U.S.A.

    medium.com
    No Sympathy for Rape: The Secret Sisterhood of Hmong Women
    https://medium.com/@yseavue/no-sympathy-for-rape-the-secret-sisterhood-of-hmong-women-cee3c8fe8f88

    I often think back to my childhood girlfriends. My cousin at twelve and my high school friend at fourteen married off to men twice their age. So many young Hmong girls who could not say no, who had no recourse for escape, who could not go home because their families no longer claimed them. We as a society carried on a culture of trauma for our daughters. We treated it as normal, as expected that young girls will struggle the first time a man takes her. We treated a girl’s fight as something to not take seriously. Our mothers condoned it because it’s also what they went through and survived. Trauma, fear, and terror is part of sex and marriage for many young Hmong girls.

  6. @RJJCDA

    Not sure it would have reduced NVA/VC casualties by 90% unless they got tired of running into a massive kill zone, as they tried to penetrate through the neck of the panhandle, because otherwise, their casualties would have been huge. Also would have needed a lot of engineering work to transform the forested mountainous terrain into a strip in which NVA forces could be easily detected and targeted. But the US is good at that kind of massive earth-moving project–unlike COIN.

    Of course, it would not have solved the strategic problem of trying to make a despised and corrupt Catholic leadership clique palatable to the southern Vietnamese. But it certainly could have prevented the resort to the idiotic Rolling Thunder and the destabilization of Cambodia.

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
  7. @mario964

    ‘What about Hmong entrenched tradition of abduction and rape marriage of very young girls?
    Nothing to say?’

    What is that you have to say?

    That on that account they should be destroyed?

    What people are you part of? Name it, so I can decide if you will be allowed to live. After all, maybe you eat beef, or are mean to puppies, or don’t bathe, or…

  8. Biff says:
    @mario964

    Some Americans beat their dogs, therefore all Americans are dog abusers.

    Isn’t this fun?

  9. @Ko

    ‘Hey Man,

    That was a masterpiece of a read.’

    That sort of detail isn’t important to moral censors.

    • Replies: @Ko
  10. W/o the Communists fighting them back, the Americans would have happily leveled Laos, exterminating everything living there larger than a gnat.

    Of course I can’t find it now, but there was a documentary on YouTube about Americans living near a bombing range in the desert in the California-Arizona-Nevada area, who make a living from picking up the unexploded / dummy bombs and the fragments of exploded stuff, and selling it for metal scrap. I’m pretty sure they’re living more miserably and less safely than the average Lao.

    Hm, now that I think of it, probably 100 million Americans at least are not living as well or safely as the average Lao.

  11. @mario964

    Not long ago, around the time of the last, mid-term, election, it came out that a certain politician was in the habit of raping young girls and it was all OK in his, Southern, society since he paid off the families.

    It further came out that among the society of the “Founding Fathers” of the US, it was perfectly acceptable for a guy in his 30s or 40s to rape a 12-year-old, as long as he married her thereafter.

    Not saying kidnapping and rape are OK, just saying I get sick of the eternal drumbeat of “We’re whiiiiiiiiiiite, we’d never do thaaaaaaaaat”.

  12. Anonymous[600] • Disclaimer says:

    In Voices from the Plain of Jars, there’s a drawing by a 33-year-old woman that shows three planes dropping bombs on a decapitated head, a severed arm and two mangled bodies

    One of your best, sir!

  13. @alex in San Jose AKA Digital Detroit

    ‘Not long ago, around the time of the last, mid-term, election, it came out that a certain politician was in the habit of raping young girls and it was all OK in his, Southern, society since he paid off the families.

    ‘It further came out that among the society of the “Founding Fathers” of the US, it was perfectly acceptable for a guy in his 30s or 40s to rape a 12-year-old, as long as he married her thereafter.

    ‘Not saying kidnapping and rape are OK, just saying I get sick of the eternal drumbeat of “We’re whiiiiiiiiiiite, we’d never do thaaaaaaaaat”.’

    Indeed.

    I’ll also point out that we have reached the point where, laudable as our mores may be, the result is a society that doesn’t work.

    Therefore, I am reluctant to condemn the mores of any society that does work. I assume traditional Hmong society did work. So we can condemn it — when we can show that our mores also result in a society that works.

    Let me know when that happens.

    Until then, we are in the position of a man who says the out house is disgusting — but happens to be shitting on the living room floor instead. Our society no longer works at all. It’s absurd for us to condemn societies that do work — however distasteful we may find their arrangements.

  14. swamped says:

    “Vietnamese Communists were also instrumental in building up the Khmer Rouge, one must remember”…as one must also remember that Vietnamese communists were also instrumental in toppling the genocidal Khmer Rouge, a short while later. Forty years ago last month (01/07/79) Vietnamese tanks & troops rolled into Pnomh Penh, sending Hitleresque Pol Pot & Co. fleeing frantically to the countryside, after one of the most rapid blitzkriegs since the Second World War; sweeping down from the north beginning on Christmas Day and smashing through impotent Khmer Rouge defenses to race to the capital unimpeded in a matter of days. Backed by Vietnam’s old nemesis China, the remnants of the Khmer Rouge fought a guerilla war against the Vietnam-backed government in Cambodia for many years thereafter until a UN supervised peace agreement was arranged. But the Vietnamese invasion, whatever it’s real motives, finally put an end to Pol Pot’s ‘killing fields’; which had been based on the insane Maoist model of permanent cultural revolution.
    So many “consequences of outrageous if not incomprehensible decisions, made by unseen hands, way above their wretched station.”

  15. swamped says:
    @alex in San Jose AKA Digital Detroit

    “Not saying kidnapping and rape are OK, just saying I get sick of the eternal drumbeat of ‘We’re Not saying kidnapping and rape are OK, just saying I get sick of the eternal drumbeat of “We’re whiiiiiiiiiiite, we’d never do thaaaaaaaaat”…nowadays it’s usually the other way round: ‘You’re whiiiiiiiiiiite, BUT we’d never do thaaaaaaaaat’ (‘cuz we’re woooooooooooooooooooooke).

  16. @Colin Wright

    Yep we agree. I hear “my fellow” whites go on and on about this group having tons of kids or that group marrying when the gal is 13, and this is exactly what “we” were doing 100-150 years ago. After hearing a guy unload about “the Mexicans” and how they somehow get by when a white family can’t, I said all they’re doing is living like “we” did in the 1950s. Husband takes his paycheck home and hands it to his wife. Wife hands him $20 and that’s his allowance for the week. She cooks at home, tends a garden if she can keep one, manages the money. They have one car or take the bus. It’s a very basic, no-frills lifestyle that “we” can go back to any time.

    Or they’ll unload about this or that group having tons of kids. Hello, this is what whites did a few generations back. My own family with 5 kids wasn’t even out of the norm. Why do you think station wagons were so popular in the 50s and 60s?

    • Replies: @LoutishAngloQuebecker
  17. mario964 says:

    Hmong marriage by capture and rape.

    While waiting for Mr. Linh Dinh to say a word on the subject, let’s have a look at one of the many shining marvels we have been endowed with in multiculti societies.

    From: Lisa Aronson Fontes. Child Abuse and Culture: Working with Diverse Families. p. 44. Guilford Press. 2008
    Yang (2004) describes marriage by capture as “a continuing cultural practice among Hmong communities of America” (p. 39). This practice is just one of three ways the Hmong marry, the other being marriage by courtship (consensual) and marriage by elopement (when parents do not give permission for the marriage but both the bride and groom consent). In marriage by capture, a man kidnaps a young woman and rapes her. After holding her for three days, he arranges for a traditional Hmong go-between, called mej-koob to legitimize the marriage by arranging a bride price and performing a marriage ceremony.
    Do we expect the girl’s family to stand up and defend their raped daughter? That’s the saddest part of the game: the family will force the daughter to submit (i.e. a life of unrelenting rape) because she lost her virginity and if she doesn’t marry the shame will fall on the whole family! In such a society males can rightly boast: “Thanks God I haven’t been born a woman“.

    But do never forget: white straight Christian males are the source of all evils.

  18. @alex in San Jose AKA Digital Detroit

    You fail to see the point, bro. Nobody makes a film about crack dealers in South Chicago. They make films about the Tony Sopranos Whites organized criminals are intelligent enough to sit in their backyard like Tony feeding their ducks while ordering 200 murders.

    Black sex crime is boring. Its just the usual low IQ hit-and-run. Dahmer is more intriguing, more diabolical with his acid vats and careful planning.

  19. Ko says:
    @Colin Wright

    Ya, it was such a weird comment. Without any preface or warning. I enjoyed the article, really. I know Laos well and I love all of it, and I enjoy the writer’s travels cuz he moves through life like I do when I’m in Myanmar, except I no longer drink. But this particular one by Linh was from the heart and that’s how I read it. Then I saw the guys comment and it was so far out of place. The guys mind is obvioulsy gone.

  20. jo6pac says:

    Thanks Linh another insightful artical.

    This a great read on just how bad Amerika is and it has gotten worse.

    The Politics of Heroin: CIA Complicity in the Global Drug Trade, Afghanistan, Southeast Asia, Central America.

  21. @RJJCDA

    Perhaps a better deal for Vietnam would have been to skip the absurd partitioning of Vietnam upon the victory by Ho Chi Minh and his Viet Minh over French colonial forces. They fought and won, why not get the spoils of victory? The partitioning only prolonged the eventuality of a Vietnam ruled by Vietnamese for Vietnamese.

    The Cold War was fought hot and hard in third party nations. Cui bono?

    Sure, the Communists would have had their usual purges/bloodbaths, but southern Vietnam would not have endured Agent Orange, Arc Light strikes, land mines, cluster bombs, etc., as the US “pacified and protected” Vietnamese people from other Vietnamese people.

    The body count in the end might have been much less for the Vietnamese in total. Especially for 57,000+ US KIA, along with the KIA from ANZAC and Korea. The POW-MIAs that were left behind would never have happened. The CIA’s secret wars surrounding Vietnam might have still happened because Opium.

    McCain’s political career would have been a harder row to plow without the suffering POW legend. No support for “moderate” terrorists in the future.

  22. @Oscar Peterson

    I said “Rolling Thunder.” SaneClownPosse’s comment reminds me that I meant “Arc Light.”

  23. @Jeff Stryker

    How did we get from Hmong marriage practices to the Mafia? Hell yeah high-IQ crime is more interesting, we can agree there.

    I think one of the main things making high-IQ crime worthy of movies etc is, it’s pretty easy to pick out the crackhead, the burglar, the mugger. But a high-IQ crook could be anyone. I started to watch a movie about John Wayne Gacy last night (made it about 1/3 through) and that fat disgusting slob was middle-class and took pains to join things like the Jaycees and various political campaigns so he was good as gold at least as far as whites were concerned.

    In Japan or Asia in general, he’d have had to play a better game WRT personal hygiene and appearance, and have had to be a lot more clever than to bury his victims right under his own house.

  24. Anonymous[600] • Disclaimer says:

    Hello, Linh,

    I thought this cartoon might be of interest to you.
    My grandfather ended his career in naval aviation as a CAG (commander of an aircraft carrier air wing) during operations Rolling Thunder and Steel Tiger in the 1960s. Rolling Thunder was the air war against North Viet Nam; Steel Tiger was the covert air war against Laos. Whenever a bombing pause was ordered in Rolling Thunder, the carriers sent their airplanes on missions into Laos.
    I wasn’t really aware of this until when discussing your recent articles on Laos with my mother, she got out the journal he kept during his Viet Nam War CVW tour of duty, during which time he made three cruises and flew 210 combat missions. It’s full of interest to me on a variety of subjects relating to his life in the third war of his naval career.
    But one thing I thought you might find of interest, too, was the fact that we were dropping so many bombs on Viet Nam and Laos that we ran out of them and were forced to buy back World War II-era bombs we had sold for scrap value to our allies. The appended cartoon, which accompanied a news item my grandfather had cut out of a newspaper, mocks Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara for paying West Germany $21 each in 1966 for bombs we had sold that country for $1.70 just two years before. The article says he bought 18,000 bombs from the West Germans.
    I can’t help but wonder how many of those bomb casings scattered across Laos that you have photographed were part of that purchase. So…all that…that… twenty-one bucks a pop.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  25. Anyone know what the Chinese characters on the side of the doorway mean? Oliphant’s one of the great modern political cartoonists.

  26. Anonymous[600] • your father, if he is indeed that, should be shot in the head for his war crimes.

  27. Laos and Vietnam don’t have the crumbling roads, the lousy infrastructure, the dangerous inner-cities, the rampant overdoses, safer schools, the collapsing bridges of the United States.

    I keep asking why other countries have lower crime rates and a better infrastructure than the US?

    And I’ve been to Laos. Its developing, but it will never have the crime rate that the US does or the need for a police state.

    Not one poster ever answers my question of why other countries have better infrastructures, lower crime, safer schools, less overdoses than American does.

    A few have suggested it is because Dubai has oil. Laos has no oil.

    I’m not saying that Philippines or Cambodia are better than the US. They are far worse. My point is, why do Americans believe America is so great.

    • Replies: @JVC
    , @The Grim Joker
  28. Another 2000 word or more load of boring drivel from Master Binh ! Why is this yawn being published here ? Has UNZ become a travel blog ?

  29. eah says:
    @Ko

    It was just a question (albeit perhaps a rather pointed one).

    Hmong Traditions – Forced Marriage; Bride Kidnapping

    Bride kidnapping or forced marriage is an old tradition that is rarely practiced today and is a form of marriage by abduction, it is known as “zij poj niam”. Before the kidnapping occurs, the boy must first give a gift to the girl whom he wants to marry and after a couple of days or so, the boy along with help of his friends and family will then kidnap the girl, this is usually done when she is alone.

    In a recent podcast, Keven Barrett described the killing of 6 people in Wisconsin by a Hmong as a “hunting dispute”.

    When something is omitted and/or mischaracterized, it really is OK to mention it (although quaint Hmong marriage traditions were not the ostensible subject of this piece).

    • Replies: @Ko
  30. JVC says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Jeff—I suspect the most obvious answer is that all those other countries do not spend every last bit of capital that they can beg, borrow or steal on enriching their MIC.

    Or was it a rhetorical question??

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  31. Once USAID returned to Laos we started to read the mind control shepherds for the intelligence community engage in training about the new-old frontier and what it all means. The audience believes the actors and the various sides hate each other so passionately or at least they did at one point or might still. The nihilistic war mongers who see themselves as the blame for all of life’s woes are attracted to this kind of analysis. Wallowing in their misery because resistance is futile and there’s nothing you can do about it.

  32. anonymous[281] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Thanks for your comment, 600. I was wondering what other things in your grandfather’s journal you found of interest. Did he have an opinion on the war itself?

  33. iffen says:

    One of your best LD!

    Damn Jews should relent and give an article like this a wider audience.

  34. @alex in San Jose AKA Digital Detroit

    Lol, ikr. The Mexicans are just living normally. White Americans were pretty badass 100+ years ago and had many, many children. Maybe WE need to start just having babies. Who cares if we’re poor, what matters is family.

    It’s the whites who are the bug people living strangely. Also, East Asians have awful fertility, South Korea is now at 0.93 and even Thailand is crashing, now at 1.32. Seems like whites stabilize around 1.4-1.6, while I have no idea how low Asians can go.

    Asian (East, South, SE) women are quite horny compared to European and African women but I suppose that is not necessarily a prerequisite for having children, given free pills and abortion.

    My theory is that they evolved to be horny because of the beta Asian men. You’d have to be horny to want to reproduce in filthy Philipines with a Philipino. When they see better looking white men (and increasingly African men) their hormones go crazy.

  35. Jeff Stryker: “why do Americans believe America is so great.”

    Because it’s an empire. America is the center of the technological system, and technology is reshaping culture everywhere in the world. This, plus the fact that America has troops stationed in over 150 countries, does just about whatever it wants and assassinates whomever it wants whenever it feels like it, gives Americans the impression they’re on the winning team.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  36. @LoutishAngloQuebecker

    I don’t know what happened, but traditionally even among whites, each generation helped the next generation. Family actually meant something. Something happened after WWII. I’ve even seen it in my own family, each generation helping the next go to college, generally just paying for it out of pocket, and then when my siblings and I came along (one Boomer, two late Boomer and two X) it was “You’re on your own” and we were all out of the house at age 18 or earlier. The oldest got to go to a good “prep” type high school where the main reason to go there (besides an admittedly good education) is to schmooze with the rich kids who mainly go to that school and hopefully marry one, which she did and is fixed for life) it was not cared at all whether the other 4 of us even graduated high school. The result is 1-2 GEDs (I got mine, not sure if older bro got his) one night-school HS graduation and one that I don’t think got anything more than an 8th grade education.

    It was drilled into us younger ones that our parents could hardly wait to get us out of the house, or we were given empty platitudes about how things would be OK and college was a given (which were all utterly untrue).

    Now college ruins lives in this New Great Depression where you’ll never get back the money you put in and certainly not the time. But as far back as anyone knows, each generation helped the next, you know, like Asians and Hispanics and so on. And now it’s everyone against everyone, no help given and if you’re smart, no help asked because it just gives them the satisfaction of telling them to go fuck yourself.

  37. Ko says:
    @eah

    Yeah, i get it. But what sort of a deranged person asks such an out of the blue sky question? And why? Plus, why does whathisname think it’s the authors duty to write about the topic? It just doesn’t make sense.

  38. @Ko

    Agree. How in hell did this become such a huge topic when white American mating habits are if anything worse. It’s no wonder our right-wing is against abortion and birth control, because if it weren’t for rape and incest, the white US birth rate would go wayyyy down.

    Here’s an example of what it used to take in the old days:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirk_Douglas

    Yes, Spartacus just died, having made it to 100+. Read the part about how he grew up. His parents were really fucking poor BUT they apparently provided a stable home and gave a shit if he graduated high school. Even if he, like I, had to provide some of it, there was food in the house. They weren’t moving every 1-2 years and fighting like cats in a sack. The parents weren’t trying to fuck the kids out of anything, instead, they were giving what “launching pad” they could.

    Spartacus served in the Navy in WWII, then went on to movies. By that time he’d been able to talk his way into college, back when college got you ahead, and all his family did was provide a place to sleep and table scraps, about what you’d give a dog. That, I maintain, is all it takes to get through college – once you’re 18, just give the kid what you’d give a dog: a place to sleep that’s safe, warm, and dry, and basic food. The kid can always get grants and/or low-interest gov’t loans to pay for their college, but once they’re having to pay for food and lodging also, that’s where you end up working during college (not recommended esp for STEM students like I was) and/or borrowing too much.

    But whites are too busy “spending their kids’ inheritance” and then they wonder why their kids can’t wait to put them in the most hellish old folks’ home and slam the door and run.

  39. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    I’m American and the US has gone downhill in terms of living standards overall since Bush began his 20 year wars overseas.

    We did not have Smart Phones in 1999 but we did not have homeless clogging every city street either and wages were higher. In 1990, the average American could graduate from college, get a job, marry at 25 and buy a house.

    Today he would live at home until he was 30.

    In every single war the US becomes involved in, it ends badly. It has ended badly in Iraq and it ended badly in Somalia and it has dragged on for 20 years in Afghanistan.

    In the time the US was in Afghanistan Dubai became wealthy and was poised to purchase US shipping ports while the price of gas was higher than when George Bush entered office.

    Possibly in the nineties the US arguably was the greatest superpower. The Berlin Wall fell and 9-11 had not taken place. But in the last 20 years cities like Detroit collapsed, homelessness rose, entire parts of the country collapsed into poverty, drug addiction skyrocketed etc.

    Meanwhile, Australia and Japan and other countries continued to maintain a high standard of living.

    Were the US the technical center of the world why does poisonous sludge come of the pipes of Flint, Michigan and the state government lacked the funds to improve it?

    I think Sydney looks far more technologically advanced than Flint Michigan, doesn’t it.

    Where does the profit for these advances go when virtually ever inner-city from Los Angeles to Detroit looks like Haiti?

    You’ll say blacks but blacks are not in control of the fiscal funds.

  40. mario964 says:
    @Ko

    Who knows the truth and is silent is a mute devil.

    From ECPAT – Monitoring status of action against sexual exploitation of children.
    LAO PDR
    The most concerning cases of child marriage in Lao PDR are established as part of the traditional customs and practices of its ethnic populations. In Hmong culture, acceptable practices include Tshoob zawj, where a woman is forced to marry a man and attempts to convince the parents may include payments. The Hmong or Khmu practice of Tshoob nii, literally means to ‘pull a lady’ or ‘bride theft’ and is effectively kidnapping the bride who may be as young as 12 or 13 years old. A bride-price is commonly exchanged between the families of the bride and groom among ethnic groups. In some cases, a child may even be offered as a bride as payment to settle a dispute……..
    Furthermore, men in Hmong culture are permitted to practice polygamy and there is a relaxed attitude toward adultery committed by men in contrast to the severe consequences for women found to have committed such acts.

    https://www.ecpat.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/A4A-Laos_2017_Final.pdf

    From “The Lily :
    I’m too tired to cry’: The Laotian girls who are kidnapped to become child brides
    The threat of a stolen childhood tightens its hold within the Hmong community – a countrywide ethnic minority of over half a million. According to international anti-trafficking organization ECPAT, 57 percent of Hmong girls will be victims of “bride theft” or “Tshoob nii” from the ages of 12 or 13.
    https://www.thelily.com/im-too-tired-to-cry-the-laotian-girls-who-are-kidnapped-to-become-child-brides/

    From VICE:
    What Happens When Your Friends Get Abducted and Sold into Marriage
    What’s the process of abduction and sale?
    The initial traffickers are often Vietnamese Hmong, who pass the girls along to Chinese Hmong—basically middlemen.

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/z4ny7x/what-happens-when-your-friends-get-abducted-and-sold-into-marriage

    From Compassion Blog:
    According to Hmong culture, women are not naturally treated with respect or honor. There is a belief that daughters are just temporary residents, and that they will eventually have to leave their parents to be with their husbands. If they cannot stay in the marriage with their husbands, they are prohibited to return to their parents’ homes because there is no place for them. They have to build a small house and live by themselves.
    https://blog.compassion.com/culture-bride-abduction/

    Congratulations!

  41. @Jeff Stryker

    You’re on a roll. It’s all true.

    On here people talk with some shock about how anyone can have anyone murdered in the Philippines etc for $500, but white Americans even ostensibly middle-class ones will murder each other for a few hundred. It’s a long read but this article is a good look into white American culture:

    https://getpocket.com/explore/item/a-tree-is-known-by-its-fruit?utm_source=pocket-newtab

    Note near the end that the murderer was going to be offered $500 but they knew how much he needed money (for meth) so offered him $350 with a down payment of $100.

    In the 80s I worked at a place with a bunch of Vietnamese and Cambodian co-workers and when I wasn’t explaining the quirks of English and US culture in general to them, I found myself defending them to white workers who complained about “all the money they got … you don’t see them driving jalopies…”. It seemed to be true that they got help in buying houses and got some sort of seed money, 20 or 30 thousand dollars, but they were willing to live together and work together. I had my own resentments (being a “haole” in Hawaii will do that) but I had to come to the conclusion that if you gave random working class or lower middle class American whites the same package, they’d piss it away in record time and end up worse off than before. (And for the record, they drove cars they’d bought used and took fairly good care of.)

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  42. klcard says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Military Industrial Complex dude, the one Eisenhower warned us about.

  43. @alex in San Jose AKA Digital Detroit

    The difference is that in the Philippines unless you are really an asshat to the locals (And this has happened) or get deeply involved in local politics (And one German moron did this too) or screw some Filipino industrialist’s wife (And one American moron did this too) you’ll never have a contract put out on your life.

    Sure, life is cheap but locals don’t care about you.

    In point of crime rates, the real white trash who would kill somebody for drugs cannot afford to travel. If they could travel, they would not kill somebody for $500. You cannot be a stone junkie and be on a plane for 10 hours. Especially if you are on parole and cannot leave the state without permission.

    You are far safer in Manila than Detroit or parts of Los Angeles.

  44. @Jeff Stryker

    My theory is that these countries are not run by arrogant Harvard, Yale and Stanford graduates. I find there is a huge difference between regurgitating material from a text book and plain old fashion common sense. This arrogance and lack of common sense I think, leads Americans to believe America is great. Reality gives the lie to this belief and where ignorance and arrogance meet and marry disaster is the offspring. The poor man in the Third World has more sense in his big toe than the university graduate of the US.

    On another note I have travelled all over Venezuela, Brazil and Guyana and have friends in and stayed in the most terrible slums (Tiger Bay and Albouystown in Guyana), the favelas in Rio and the hills behind Caracas. Places where the Police fear to enter. I never had any problems and walked around and slept more peacefully than the wealthy in any seaside villa surrounded by armed security. How is that ? Because I was respectful, humble and helped out the locals. I would never attempt any of that in any US city.

    America is a dog eat dog society where everyone looks out for themselves alone. The majority in the US dont give a shit about friends, family or even their children or the elderly. Third World countries, desperately “poor” as they may be there is a sense of family, friends and someone to help in a difficult situation. I know I can drop into a poor home in Brazil and get a bowl of soup. In the US if I stopped at the 5000 sq foot home with the 2 Euro SUV;s in the driveway and begged for a slice of bread they would call the Police.or I would get shot.

    We have lost our soul and our spirits are decayed and our humanity is clouded and buried by drugs and the desire for more. Our delusion leads us to believe that if we drive a BMW we are superior to the Third World peasant riding an old bicycle. We look down from our McMansion and scorn the grass hut of the poor in some “god forsaken” part of the world. But Americans are the ones that are hollow and that is why we are what we are. Our souls and our environment are crumbling before our very eyes. Our selfishness rebounds doubly on us !

  45. @The Grim Joker

    Actually, you sound a bit retro. How American young people are buying McMansions these days? Back in the nineties maybe. Nowadays they are living at home all their life.

    All countries are run by the same wealthy elite. All the wealthy elite go to the same elite universities.

    Anybody who is middle class like myself and has been able to travel overseas knows that Australians or Japanese have it better than Americans.

    The poor Americans are bizarrely patriotic. Poor people in other countries resent being poor. They won’t show up for wars. Americans living hand-to-mouth can be made to volunteer and are patriotic all the way up to the point that Dubai is about to purchase the ports in America.

    Drugs are everywhere. Australians and Europeans do drugs. Spice zombies stagger the streets of the UK.

    • Replies: @The Grim Joker
  46. Jeff Stryker: “Anybody who is middle class like myself and has been able to travel overseas knows that Australians or Japanese have it better than Americans. ”

    You asked why Americans think their country is great and I offered a couple of reasons. If what you say about Australia and Japan is true, another might be that they haven’t traveled overseas and don’t know what they’re missing. Most Americans haven’t been to either country. Or it could be that they don’t value the same things you do. America is 1/3 or more non-white at this point. Do negroes or latrinos value living in clean, crime-free areas? Not as far as I can tell.

    Jeff Stryker: “The poor Americans are bizarrely patriotic. ”

    Being at the center of technological innovation and empire, and being on the winning side of the worldwide culture wars, having your “team” able to go anywhere and have its way with the opposition is worth a lot to some people. Then too, immigrants from all over the world are still clawing and scratching to get into America. If it’s so great in other places, and so bad here, how could that be true?

    Jeff Stryker: ” Americans living hand-to-mouth can be made to volunteer and are patriotic all the way up to the point that Dubai is about to purchase the ports in America.”

    Owing to technological advances in weaponry, combat requires much less manpower than it used to. Less than 1/2 of one percent of Americans are in the military, and most of those are in support, not combat.

    The Dubai ports deal was scrubbed a long time ago.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_Ports_World_controversy

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  47. Anonloc says:
    @LoutishAngloQuebecker

    How you perceive something depends greatly on power relations.

    I can’t help but wonder how attractive ‘woke white men’ like you will be when trudeau sends you to a labour camp for your frankly racist, and belittling views.

  48. @Jeff Stryker

    You’re making my point for me, Jeff. As long as you don’t majorly fuck up, Dutarte or the Yakuza or what-have-you are not going to kill you in Asia. Whereas, being killed for the $5 in your pocket happens with fair regularity in the US.

    My town, San Jose California, is part of the much-vaunted “Silicon Valley” and random killings happen all the time. Cops get killed too. A bit outside this area but within a longish bicycle ride (I’ve done it) a random assassination was tried on a cop; what’s funny is his bodycam in conjunction with his body armor is what saved him. This was just a few days ago.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  49. @The Grim Joker

    You’re singing my tune. I have, in fact, the rich aunt in the 5000-square foot mansion in Southern California and yes indeed, I’m convinced that if I showed up at her door, starving, she’d call the cops and tell them I was trying to break in just to make it harder for me.

    American society not only deserves to die, it needs to die.

  50. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    If the poorest Americans were actually flown to Australia or Japan and spent a week there they might actually revolt. That is why a considerable number of African American soldiers marry a German woman, stay in Germany, learn the language and never return. For an employed middle class person, Germany is not bad.

    They like their place better than America.

    Most Americans haven’t been to any country except maybe Mexico.

    Don’t value the things I do?

    If you’re a black GI from a lousy neighborhood or a young person like me who is unmarried, childless, has no debt, no mortgage, no roots who moves overseas at 25 this is different from a 45 year old earning six figures and mortgaged up to his eyeballs with two high school kids expecting to go to university.

    I had despised my life in the US before I left. The Cholos, the whiggers, the blacks I feared in lower income streets where my apartments were located. The lousy landlords. The neighbors who sold drugs. The illegal immigrants. The meth-addicted homeless tweakers.

    Leaving did not bother me a bit.

    And the US indeed seemed to go downhill after Bush was elected. Much is made of Bill Clinton’s character, but he did not leave office with the economy as bad as Bush.

    Has the US done what it wanted in Iraq or Afghanistan? Twenty years has now rolled around and neither of those have really ever ended.

    The US has not been in a war that requires much combat. Try Iraq or China. Then you’ll get up to 1000 dying every week. But that won’t happen because oil prices would stop the world anyhow. Trump knows this, Iran knows it.

    Immigrants who claw to get into the US are from Latin America. For that matter, Haitians claw to get into Mexico. Sure, there are levels of poverty. Somalians still immigrate to Minnesota but Norwegians do not.

    Heck, Canadians don’t sneak over the border much.

    Expats fit a psychology. We never had deep roots in the US to begin with. We could find equal employment opportunities overseas. We were usually young like myself or US soldiers who stay in Germany as civilians. We owned no house. Had no debt. Had no legal problems. No addiction. Bright normal intelligence.

    You bring up technological innovations. The funny thing is that in the 90’s the middle class and lower middle class seemed much better off than they are today in the Clinton era. More homeless have cell phones these days, but innovation has not helped them.

    • Replies: @The Grim Joker
  51. @alex in San Jose AKA Digital Detroit

    As a young man in the US I had more scrapes in 2 years out of college than 20 overseas-

    1) My college campus was dangerous at night. At any given time there were always a black rapist raping coeds. Not the slick, Ted Bundy-type rapes, just jump the girl in public like a caveman and rape her on a sidewalk.

    2) When I moved to Phoenix to get away from black crime I ran into Cholos fresh out of prison in my poor neighborhood. I was mugged once. White tweakers were on a rampage in the Southwest in the late nineties. I would witness ridiculous things like one redneck running down the sidewalk with his pants down while his smoking partner chased him. Mostly, it was just junkie squalor. One meth-addicted girl in my block prematurely gave birth while smoking a meth pipe. Doubtlessly, her kid had a good childhood.

    3) The white trash people next door had a pit-bull that got loose and bit a convicted child molester in the hallway nicknamed “Scary Larry”. The owner was Scott, a white trash guy I knew because he hired me to move the furniture out of his Mom’s trailer and warned me that his mother was a nympo. While I was moving his stuff out, his mother came out of her bedroom stoned and pawed my leg. “Careful! My Mom’s a pervert!” shouted Scott right in front of his mother. Scott later stabbed some Polish sailor six times in self-defense, went to jail for three years, got out, was caught with a handgun while drunk driving and jailed for life. Scary Larry later went to jail for molesting a 14 year old.

    4) My college roommate Stanley was a Polish kid who dropped out of college to marry a girl he impregnated. He ended up trapped in Flint and could not sell his house and was shot in the back by a passing car full of blacks for no reason while mowing his yard when he was the last white in his ghetto neighborhood.

    5) Because of my relatively clean-cut appearance-I held an entry-level job-when some addicts were busted next door they spread the rumor that I was a cop and I had to leave the apartment complex or I would have been in grave danger.

    6) On another occasion I had a run-in with a black pimp. He kept showing up at my door with his stable of white trash hookers who were actually pretty hot. He beat one up and I let her into my unit to use the telephone and she left in a taxi and he showed up furious at me with a sidekick demanding money. I should add that this black pimp had 8 children.

    7) Things improved when I moved to Tempe condo which I shared with two other college guys. But there was a nearby barrio and the Mexicans seemed to like assaulting middle-class Anglos for no reason. One of their modus operendi was to lure Anglo back to the Guadalupe barrio under the pretense of getting coke or weed cheap and then shoot them or beat them up for their money and let their Rotts finish the Anglo off to make it look like a dog attack. I did not drug as a young man but a few people I knew did who ended up in real trouble.

    8) Like Kathleen, who lived down the street in the middle-class neighborhood I did. Kathleen was upper middle class. Her parents had a bad divorce. She acted up in our Catholic school, was expelled, ended up in a bad local public school where she tried cocaine in the seventh grade. She was an addict by 14 and hanging around drug-dealing black teens constantly. At 15, she had an overdose and was dumped naked on a road by a carload of blacks after overdosing on crack. Her parents sent her to rehab but it was not over. Some blacks who had sold her drugs came to our middle class neighborhood looking for her. Her parents refused to allow them in. They returned and trashed their garage and car in a burglary. Kathleen relapsed anyhow and became a junkie street hooker in Florida.

    9) I knew many people who were quite nice in Michigan and never used drugs or were alcoholics, didn’t smoke. But they were trapped in a bad economy. Pure and simple. They married at 19 out of high school, had 3 kids by the age of 25, came from humble backgrounds, were poor and now live in absolute squalor.

    10) Police mostly want to arrest compliant offenders and not hardened Cholos or blacks who shoot cops. They’ll never be there when you need them and always hassle you when you don’t. I don’t know how many times cops hassled me because I had a clunker car looking for a joint or no insurance or something to feed the economy.

    My friends expressed shock when I moved to Dubai. The Middle East! Wasn’t that dangerous! Heck, if I had stayed in the US I’d be dead now. I can recall the day I landed in London and spent the afternoon in Hyde Park. The air was a pleasant temperature and there were no Cholos or Hoodrat blacks or redneck tweakers and I realized how pleasant life can be.

    I’ve been overseas for 20 years now and never ran into the likes of the people I knew as a young man in the US.

    Some of my friends moved to small towns in places like Idaho. One woman was an IT tech I knew who lived in Culver City. She made good money but moved to Idaho because she said her neighborhood was infested with roaches from Mexicans and the Cholos were moving in. So now she lives out in the middle of nowhere in a farmhouse. That is not my idea of fun. I like cities with a buzz.

  52. @Jeff Stryker

    I am more than a bit retro. I look at it this way. For years a man wakes up and has a nice breakfast say bacon, ham, eggs with french toast, maple syrup and strong coffee. Over the years, without really noticing, things slowly change and one day he wakes up to a breakfast of stale, mildewed crackers and a glass of warm water sweetened with saccharine scoffed from the nearby coffee shop. He thinks wistfully of those happy breakfasts past and is diagnosed with SARS (Severe Arthritic Retro Syndrome) . Brother, when I think of what used to be and what is now you better believe am a chronic sufferer.

    A friend of mine who fled the US (when JFK and Khruschev/ Fidel) almost rumbled and bought a ranch in Mato Grosso in southern Brazil. He returned to the US after close to 60 years for his sister’s funeral and was appalled at the change in the country. He told me “from the ranch it is a 4 hour drive on a dirt track to the main road through country that is desolate and wild with not another building in sight and perhaps a chance meeting with a wandering indian family or cowboy. Yet in the US I felt frightened with my family constantly warning me not to go here or there. I felt safer in the bush. Although I intended to stay a full month, I forfeited my return ticket and left 2 days after the funeral. ”

    I am just as surprised at young couples buying houses they cannot afford. While there are some living at home the fact is history is repeating itself. One couple bought a 3500 sq foot house (but could not furnish it ) tore the kitchen apart and renovated it a tag of $60,000 (although they work 16 hour days and eat out every night) and bought 2 high end SUV’s they drive a few miles to the train station for the commute to work. Make sense ?? Real estate prices are going up, up, up so say the RE agents and now is the time to buy ! The young pups want respect, to show they are comers, upwardly mobile and are willing to get into massive debt to show they are not irrelevant nincompoops. The banks dont give a shit. As long as you can make the monthly payments they extend the mortgage and consumer credit.

    Most folks do not learn their lessons and we can expect another crash perhaps worse than the last sometime in the future.

  53. @Jeff Stryker

    I wasn’t bothered by Mexicans as much as you, being kind of tan myself. I remember a Census official coming around in the mid-late 80s to check up on me in my apartment in Costa Mesa, California, in the “bad” area where it was a mix of Mexicans and white trash. She was checking up on me because I’d put that I’m white on the Census form, and I guess that didn’t make sense to the people at the office, so she was there to make sure I’d gotten the race right. I’d been riding my bike a lot so I was pretty tan, and I don’t think I was able to convince her I’m white.

    Blacks, mostly that was through the simple avoidance method. Where they were, I wasn’t.

    White trash are just plain scary though. I lived in Tempe a bit myself, OK so on paper it was Scottsdale, near that big Motorola building, but for all intents and purposes it was Tempe. I remember some college kid in the local news waking up and wondering what was blocking the door of his apartment – it was a dead body.

    The thing to understand about the US is, though, that it’s just a long, slow, grind to the bottom. Social mobility is just a myth. Economic mobility the same. Unless you get lucky in the lottery or learn to pick locks or something.

    I left Hawaii for the same reason a lot of Pacific Islanders do. You grow up being told all this great stuff about the mainland, and actually come to believe that you’ll be able to buy a house or something, and that there are jobs that a smart and skilled person can get, and it’s really no better than what island you came off of, and in fact worse.

    Yes, you can live cheaply on the mainland US. But as you say, you’ve got to live out in the middle of nowhere. The kind of people who live out in the middle of nowhere skew heavily toward those who don’t get along well in societies so they move out there where their craziness is less likely to get them into trouble. Druggies, felons, child molesters, end-of-world conspiracy theorists, etc. People who make the Unz crowd here look like a tea party of Quakers. Those who are not batshit crazy tend to hide in their houses/cabins a lot.

    Meanwhile the long, slow, suck continues. Guess what? Google Maps are neutered now. If you want to check out that prospective homestead or farm on Street View or Satellite View, you can just go fish. All you get is a very basic map now and if you move your marker at all, the original marking point disappears too.

    I mean, I’m already resigned to “the internet” being mostly text and some videos on YouTube in living 480p, but I always found Google Street View to be fun, and now that’s gone. I can’t really watch movies unless they’re really oddball/obscure/old and even then it’s a stretch, and I can’t afford to buy movies on DVD so I’m finding that has a have-not I’m missing out on movies that are becoming part of our culture. Everyone’s seen The African Queen, for instance, but I’ve not seen Titanic, any of the Alien movies, Star Trek past that one with the whale in it, and so on.

    It seems a bit far afield considering the main topic here seems to be Hmong marriage customs, but if Americans see less and less of the world or prospective living places that might be better to move to, inside the US or out, then they’re going to be less likely to know when to jump ship.

    • Replies: @vhrm
  54. Ko says:

    LD , you’re one of the reasons I like UNZ. But wtf – my curiosity and my turn toward casual commenting is over. It was like walking into a broke down bus occupied with psych patients. Cheers

    • Agree: eah
    • LOL: Biff
  55. Jeff Stryker: “Has the US done what it wanted in Iraq or Afghanistan? Twenty years has now rolled around and neither of those have really ever ended. ”

    I could say ask Saddam Hussein, or Khaddafi, or Osama bin Laden, or Al-Baghdadi, or Al-Alwaki, but that would be beside the point. Being able to go anywhere and exterminate anyone who displeases her gives America a certain prestige, in a primitive way. Maybe it’s not admirable, but it can’t help but impress. But I think we’re not really talking about the same thing. I’ve been explaining why most Americans still think America is great, while you’ve been busy listing reasons why they should not think so. I agree with a lot of your criticisms, but I’m trying to point out the bigger picture.

    There are always wars at the periphery of empires. The American state was founded on the assimilationist Roman model, and the American empire has followed the same plan as the Roman one in many ways. Rome was at war with Parthia (Persia) for centuries. Evidently it hasn’t occurred to you that staying in such places more or less permanently is exactly what was wanted all along. Naturally, the public wasn’t told this, but I for one don’t see it as an accident. In such ways the local cultures are taught to adapt to new ways of doing things and seeing things. The idea is that eventually, they’ll become good citizens of the empire. Their countries under occupation, meanwhile, can be controlled to funnel resources back to the center, the heart of the empire. Ensuring a stable supply of relatively cheap oil has been one notable benefit.

    In fact, a lot of the complaints about America you voice are in response to the typical problems empire generates; very similar to what happened in ancient Rome. The poet Juvenal, for example, in one of his satires, complained about the Orontes flowing into the Tiber, or in other words, about the human refuse of Asia flowing into Rome. Immigration from conquered areas and mixing with freed slaves eventually exterminated the Romans just as it is currently exterminating white America. This process, which takes generations to run to completion, destroyed the original Roman people and culture in a way similar to how white America is being destroyed. You, yourself, are even participating in this destruction. In being an American ex-pat, you’re in the position of a Roman colonist in one of her provinces. In this forum, I’ve seen it alleged that you’ve married locally and have non-white children. If so, that too is part of the spread of empire. What’s being born under American hegemony is a global civilization, and a new breed of man, Homo technologicus, to supplant all the old races and ways.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  56. Too bad Homo technologicus is killing the planet.

  57. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    Americans have less privileges in foreign countries than Brits or Australians for the most part. The foreigners with privileges in Southeast Asia are Chinese because these countries-especially Singapore-are Chinese vassal state economies. The anti-Americanism is not just jobless louts with beer and tattoos on the streets, its institutionalized in some countries. Dubai more (Money talks). Saudi more (Money talks).

    Not that I care. But we don’t get the colonial nod of gratitude Brits get in India for building roads. Visit Philippines, you’ll see what I mean.

    Put simply, a bully in grammar school can get the milk money of other students in the playground but won’t get invited to class birthday parties to enjoy cake.

    For example, a Canadian has right to a job and welfare in Australia. Americans don’t. The railroading of Amanda Knox would never have happened to a Finn-they belong to the European Union.

    Bin Laden seems to have dragged the US into an 18 year war at considerable cost? I don’t know. Did he lose. The US never quite seemed the same after 9-11. Or actually, when Bush was elected. Saddam Hussein was a petty tinpot thug. Ghaddafi was an eccentric nutcase-crazier than an outhouse rat.

    Cheap oil prices? I recall oil rising because of the Iraq War and reaching its height in the last year of the Bush administration.

    Invade Iran and watch oil go up to a $200 a barrel. Maybe $500. Is that cheap oil?

    If I had married my college girlfriend in Michigan-a junior high science teacher at a bad public school now who was once assaulted by a 16 year old ninth grader/black thug so badly she had to be treated-I’d have been broke my entire life, never held a job in my desired field because Michigan had none, sent my kids to a public school where blacks and Mexicans who were most psychopathic ruled the roots and worry that my daughter my try a line of meth in eighth grade, owned a house with zero property value.

    My grandmother owned a condominium in Greater Detroit worth $400,000 in 1986. In 2006 my brother sold it for $70,000. I was told we were lucky to receive that much.

  58. Jeff Stryker: “Americans have less privileges in foreign countries than Brits or Australians for the most part. … The anti-Americanism is not just jobless louts with beer and tattoos on the streets, its institutionalized in some countries. Dubai more (Money talks). Saudi more (Money talks).”

    Though the average American may get little benefit, or even experience a loss, as a result of empire, he can still be proud of it. This also was true in ancient Rome. The average Roman didn’t get much economic benefit from empire, or even lost, but was still proud of Rome’s achievements, and proud to be a Roman citizen. Human emotions aren’t rational. Patriotism is very deeply ingrained in societies.

    What counts in empire is technological and cultural dominance. Much like America today, the Romans were both admired and feared for their superior military technology, and appreciated for bringing some order to a chaotic world (Pax Romana). Just as people in the countries America dominates want to learn English, Latin became the common language of the empire, and people in conquered areas adopted Roman ways, abandoning their own. I’d be willing to wager there are a lot more Saudis who are learning English than there are Americans who are learning Arabic, for example; and recently the Saudis are granting additional rights to women. Meanwhile, almost every country in Europe has embraced American-style diversity. Such changes are to be expected.

    Jeff Stryker: “Cheap oil prices? I recall oil rising because of the Iraq War and reaching its height in the last year of the Bush administration.

    Invade Iran and watch oil go up to a $200 a barrel. Maybe $500. Is that cheap oil?”

    Iran has been pretty quiet since Soleimani got whacked.

    Oil fluctuates, but generally has been pretty cheap over the last 20 years. Adjusted for inflation, the price has hardly moved at all.

    https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/gasoline-prices-adjusted-for-inflation/

  59. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    You do a good, succinct, job of making patriotism sound as stupid as it is.

    I believe one of the main ideas on this site is that “American style diversity” (you might as well talk about Roman style or Ancient Egyptian style) is being exercised due to our influence and that it’s not a good thing.

    Gasoline has been fairly flat in price, hovering around the $3-$4 range, but I remember $7 gas during the economic crash. It cost me over $10 to full up the little 250cc motorcycle I putted around on.

  60. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    English is the lingua franca because of the Brits.

  61. TJM says: • Website

    Dear Linh Dinh, Thank you for another excellent article from Southeast Asia. It was very informative. I always wondered why Clint Eastwood used the Hmong in Detroit for his epic film “Gran Tarino”.
    Now I know why. Thank you!

  62. alex in San Jose AKA Digital Detroit: “You do a good, succinct, job of making patriotism sound as stupid as it is. ”

    Stupid maybe, but there is no choice. Life is a Darwinian struggle for survival, and human groups are locked in competition for a limited supply of resources. People like to imagine that they have free will and could do otherwise than they do, but to choose not to participate in the struggle is merely to choose to succumb to others who take it more seriously. You either conquer or get conquered; exploit or be exploited. In this regard, human societies are not much different than ants or bees. They too self-organize and form natural hierarchies. The patriotism of the soldier resembles the “altruism” of bees or ants defending their nest.

    Jeff Stryker: “English is the lingua franca because of the Brits.”

    At one time, but not now.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Adûnâi
  63. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    Americans are not competing with anyone. If America guards the Philippines, for example, all the money profits China.

    Is English the lingua franca of the US Southwest?

    I speak as a lower middle class American, of course. In my situation-urban, white, college educated, not wealthy-it makes no difference if I live overseas. Mexicans and inner-city blacks and the worst white trash don’t live in Dubai or Asia.

    Should you be living in a bucolic suburb in the US interior earning 6 figures a year in community where public schools have a 4-H club than nothing I’ve said is relevant.

    Maybe the poorest white Americans whose wages have been stagnant for 30 years are so thrilled that they can own a Smart Phone even if they live at home at an age when their parents owned a house back in 1989 can take some solace in the fact that America can afford to be in Afghanistan for 20 years.

    Occasionally some prole like me gets a chance to move overseas and you have my opinion. We see the difference. We’re small-minded-our own quality of life is only important.

  64. Biff says:
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    Though the average American may get little benefit, or even experience a loss, as a result of empire, he can still be proud of it.

    There’s never a shortage of idiots in this world. On the contrary, the place is overflowing with them…

  65. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDAFy3ASNOo

    Nice little documentary on non-1% Americans. These people can’t even be called poor in American terms, there are many who are much, much, poorer.

  66. vhrm says:
    @alex in San Jose AKA Digital Detroit

    Dude, i don’t get how you’re SO poor. You seem reasonably intelligent and can communicate in English. Can’t you get some job like assistant manager at a Chipotle or working for the County or State or something?

    Same with Stryker… he got some sort of college degree and had some sort of professional career (though not in the US). So how “lower class” is he/was he/would he have been?
    Sure if you’re mentally on the slow side or have physical or psychological handicaps or are on drugs or old and without marketable skills or savings it can be v hard, but otherwise… go teach high school or be a cop or join the military or be a nurse or work in HR our whatever. Sure it’s not the post-war boom, but you (we?) who are writing essays on here day in and day out aren’t the ones who can’t find enough work to put a roof over our heads.

    And the urban story currently in the US is gentrification and falling crime. Take Philly for example… even with a Ferguson effect spike the past three years the homicide rate is still half of what it was in the 80s. And the desirable/habitable area around Center City has expanded South maybe 10 or more blocks in the past 20 years.

    As a healthy male not engaged in crime and being just a little aware of your surroundings your chance of being hurt or killed is quite low.

    Also, whole i often rage at Google Maps’ Product Managers’ choices to limit features, i don’t think they’ve generally nerfed the resolution available. i can still soon in just fine on stellite cows that show individual trees and their shadows in the middle of nowhere e.g
    Gobblers Knob
    Colorado 81252
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/9isx5253t1dKA2YR7

    Street-view isn’t available at homestead sites simply because they don’t have the data… (also check out Google Earth for a better (in some ways) interface though it’s the same underlying data afaik )

  67. @vhrm

    Hm, State job that requires connections I don’t have, to get. As for manager at Shitpotle, well, 60-70 hour weeks for $35k a year, yeah that really sounds good.

    I have a free place to live and $300 a week, that’s doing better than something like half the population where I am. I’m counting off the years until I’ll be eligible for social security, then I plan to move back where I grew up, where the cost of living for someone who knows the local culture and ways is 1/2 what it is where I am now.

    Going out and finding a job with fast food, day labor, warehouse, etc. which are the only kinds of jobs a person who’s not of the upper class has a ghost of a chance of getting here, would mean probably living in a vehicle or in a really crappy room on the crime-ridden East Side.

    I don’t have the eyesight to be a cop/bus or truck driver/pilot/air traffic control/etc. Tons of jobs are closed to you if you’ve got wonky eyes. And hard physical labor is closed to me now both due to sheer age (58), size (when you’re underfed growing up you don’t grow very big; I’m normal size for a Lao), and an accident I only remember waking up in the hospital from, that kind of buggered up my back.

    There are a lot of things I’ve looked into and one thing that one really doesn’t become aware of until one looks into occupations seriously, is the gate-keeping has become extreme here in the US. The most cockamamie things, like say you want to become a barber or a tattooist. Better have many thousands of dollars on hand and be prepared to work many, many hours over many years to get the kind of vo-tech training and licensure that used to be cheap to free.

    As for Google Maps, for some reason satt/street view came back. Maybe because I complained. Probably because I complained.

    You are right about “iffy” neighborhoods and my safety. Since I’m not “in the game” as far as drugs and crime go, and street-aware, that I’ve managed to get by fine where I am now, says I’m fairly safe. In fact when I retire home to Hawaii I’ll almost certainly be in an “iffy” area and it worries me not at all. Looking back to my young adult days there, it was funny how wealthier people I knew were (rightfully) worried about crime, which just passed me by since I was a “low value target” who really didn’t own much of anything worth stealing or that was not easily replaceable.

    I did everything I was supposed to do. Wasted (and it was a total waste) time and money on college, went to the mainland and chased after having more toys than the next guy, did all the things Western culture esteems. It only profits what Dmitry Orlov calls “The Technosphere” and makes the individual worn-out and miserable.

    I find it interesting that since I went to the mainland, my savings rate has been zero, and it’s only been back around what it was in my young adult/student days, since I solidified my plan to move back home and have adjusted my way of living and thinking about life to what it was and what it will need to be – back to about a 30% savings rate.

  68. Adûnâi says:
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    “You either conquer or get conquered; exploit or be exploited. In this regard, human societies are not much different than ants or bees.”

    No, if this were natural, Americans would not take pride in a country that abolishes their rights of ownership over their own women, a civilization that serves the interests of Jesus and other non-Whites.

    If you want a parallel with the natural world, it is closer to an ant colony whose queen has been killed and the power over which has been usurped by a spider. Then yes, patriotism is a natural signal, yet directed to the “anti-natural” (anti-host) ends.

    The blind spot of my analogy is that Jesus never existed, unlike spiders, and that ants do not value personal comfort or the pursuit of happiness. (Nazi nonocausalists will say the spider is the Jew, but last time I checked, Israel had no future.) What remains is a psychic scourge of a suicidal civilizational meme.

  69. Adûnâi: “No, if this were natural,…”

    You didn’t read that very carefully. To conquer or be conquered are the only choices. That’s natural, and your parasite/host analogy is an example of it, but so is “normal” American behavior today. You neglect to consider that everyone is not only an individual, but also a member of an indefinite number of groups. The interests of the group are not necessarily the same as that of the individual, and in fact are often opposed to it. For example, when a bee dies by stinging an invader of her group’s nest, it’s not in her individual interest to sacrifice herself, nor even in the specific interest of her caste within the hive, but it is in the interest of the hive considered in totality. In the same way, white Americans are sacrificing their personal interests, and their specific racial interests, in favor of the interests of their greater unity as a nation. This sort of behavior resembles the behavior of a superorganism such as a bee or ant colony.

    • Replies: @Adûnâi
  70. @Jeff Stryker

    Jeff,

    Sounds like The Neighbourhood (Space):

  71. Adûnâi says:
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    “In the same way, white Americans are sacrificing their personal interests, and their specific racial interests, in favor of the interests of their greater unity as a nation.”

    No, the [civilized humanistic] nation is the very anti-thesis of an ant colony. That nation is an inorganic memetic machine. Throughout history, even under traditional Christianity more or less, it was used as a tool of the genes. Now, it is against race and biology.

    Your analogy would have been closer to the truth if you had seen civilization as a unity of “humankind” (because it is at least vaguely rooted in reality), but “mankind’ is too a memetic concept, and selling your daughters to Negroes is only comprehensible through the prism of Jesus-worship.

    The DPRK is a superorganism because it unites 25 mil. closely related people, where a mere tribe united 150. This is progress. Not a crazed sick race welded together with the rubbish through the power of love – such a civilization is destined to lose its technology to begin with, and thus degrade into primordial inorganic chaos.

  72. We get it, white trash and spics don’t move to Dubai and military vets have to move to Manila or they will end up homeless and get masturbated upon

    Do you even realize what a fucking loser you sound like? Your repetitive monomaniacal posts are a bore to read, and it all looks like a bizarre self-justifying rant to a shrink rather than a normal expat who couldn’t care less about shit back home. Get a life or at least more interesting posting style, please

    • Agree: Republic
    • Replies: @Republic
  73. Adûnâi: “No, the [civilized humanistic] nation is the very anti-thesis of an ant colony. That nation is an inorganic memetic machine.”

    What this comes down to is that you are still, under certain circumstances, willing to place humans outside of nature. Thus, you have no problem with characterizing North Koreans as a superorganism, but because in your opinion the people are not closely related enough, refuse to do so in the case of the USA. But when, exactly, did “North Korean” become a race? Are they biologically distinct from South Koreans, and from Chinese? If so, in what ways, and how are the differences significant?

    Further, regarding memes and “memetic concepts”, don’t Koreans use them? And if they do use them, then why isn’t their nation “an inorganic memetic machine” too?

    Adûnâi: “Throughout history, even under traditional Christianity more or less, it was used as a tool of the genes.”

    This is a curious statement. What’s “traditional” Christianity? And when exactly does some human behavior start or stop being natural? Are you saying it was perfectly natural for whites to breed with Jews, as did even the very earliest Christians, but that you draw the line at full-blooded negroes? If so, then how about w/mulattoes or quadroons? Octaroons? If some of these pairings are natural but the rest unnatural, how so? What’s your decision-making process?

    It all strikes me as very sloppy thinking.

    • Replies: @Adûnâi
  74. Adûnâi says:
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    “What this comes down to is that you are still, under certain circumstances, willing to place humans outside of nature.”

    By definition, there are three groups: 1) non-human animals; 2) hominins; 3) hominins of my race. The non-humans I shall preserve for future generations, my comrades should expect my support, and the foreigners that also compete with my race for resources should await my hate.

    Yes, I put my race over the rest of animals. No, not over Nature overall. No, it does not make me an anti-racist.

    “Thus, you have no problem with characterizing North Koreans as a superorganism, but because in your opinion the people are not closely related enough, refuse to do so in the case of the USA.”

    This is literal anti-racism.

    “Further, regarding memes and “memetic concepts”, don’t Koreans use them? And if they do use them, then why isn’t their nation “an inorganic memetic machine” too?”

    Oh, they do. And it is a machine. I would not call fire organic, or its use not artificial. But in their case, they are driving such a machine, not are slaves to it.

    “What’s “traditional” Christianity? And when exactly does some human behavior start or stop being natural?”

    Back when women were barred from inheriting property. Or when the church was a wealthy hierarchical structure that controlled politics and created art. Objectively speaking, the Middle Ages were relatively decent – especially considering what came after Borgia, from Protestantism to industrialization.

    If the English scientific revolution had happened 500 years later, but with the English fundamentalist Christianity’s not having materialized, I would take it.

  75. Republic says:
    @Thumbhead Forney

    You are right,something not right with this JS character,he always appears on any LD article and says the same thing over and over. Unz banned him for some time.

  76. Adûnâi: “This is literal anti-racism.”

    I hate to break it to you Bucko, but it’s well-established that racial hybrids exist in superorganisms. They are, in other words, often multi-racial societies. For example, the European honeybee Apis mellifera mellifera hybridizes readily with the African raceApis mellifera scutellata, producing the so-called Africanized honeybee. Also, all bees in a hive may or may not be of the same race. On a mating flight, the queen typically mates with multiple male bees, and in an area in which two or more races coexist, their races aren’t guaranteed to be the same. So, racial diversity is another thing that both superorganisms and human beings have in common. Your idea that racial diversity invalidates the USA’s status as a superorganism is just wrong. Obviously too, beyond facilitating the natural human tendency to race mix, Christianity has essentially nothing to do with it. Racial hybrids are formed not only in bees, but also were formed in the human empires that correspond to insect superorganisms, such as the Roman Empire and the empire of Alexander, long before rabbi Jesus was even a gleam in Yahweh’s eye (or Pantera’s eye, as the case may be). America’s multi-racial empire is nothing new. It’s a multi-racial world, and any empire that grows big enough will be multi-racial.

    Adûnâi: “But in their case, they are driving such a machine, not are slaves to it.”

    There you go with the free will stuff again. Free will is not a scientific theory. It’s a religious notion favored by Christians and their cultural heirs.

    Adûnâi: “Back when women were barred from inheriting property.”

    Women could own property in the Roman Empire, both before and after the Christian takeover, and in Sparta. It seems to me it’s more cultural than religious. As far as I know, it’s not typical of Christianity, and I see no reason why you’d make that your criterion of what’s traditional or not. Just the fact that you personally approve of it is a pretty flimsy reason. If we follow this rule, it would mean that even the apostles were not “traditional Christians”, nor were Catholics, including the Pope.

    • Replies: @Adûnâi
  77. There’s a thing called “hybrid vigor” too – when you breed people together with different genetics, you avoid a lot of genetic problems caused by recessive genes.

    And, women could own property and run businesses in Jesus’ own culture, which is Jewish. I think there are verses praising the good businesswomen in the Old Testament.

    Some cultures are even ones where females are the property owners. Navajo culture for one.

  78. Adûnâi says:
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    “So, racial diversity is another thing that both superorganisms and human beings have in common.”

    The difference with the bees is that technological civilization cannot be upheld by the Brown races. The moments hominins miscegenate, their memetic cultures degenerate, their machines rust. A miscegenated “superorganism” effectively does not exist – it dies a few centuries after being ushered into existence. (Hellenic kingdoms, Rome, America.)

    “There you go with the free will stuff again.”

    Do I? Are all psychic processes manifestations of free will? Do you deny the independent of biology existence of psyche?

    It is not free will but the dialectics of psychohistory. The processes are not arbitrary, but are the resolution of the inherent contradictions of culture. Yes, they are based on the genes, but those are not exhaustive. From Montaigne to Marx, racial Jews have been caught up in the European memetic space, and thus have produced something conceivable to the rabbi’s flesh-eating culture.

    “Women could own property in the Roman Empire, both before and after the Christian takeover, and in Sparta.”

    In Rome, when it degenerated into an anti-racist economic empire. In Sparta, because their men were at war, and their women were forced to dominate their slaves.

    “As far as I know, it’s not typical of Christianity, and I see no reason why you’d make that your criterion of what’s traditional or not. Just the fact that you personally approve of it is a pretty flimsy reason.”

    Galatians 3:28. The Quran at least has numerous passages limiting women’s rights. Alawites can afford rejecting the existence of female souls outright. Whereas Christianity was cucked in antiquity (female deacons), and is now again.

    https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/women-worth-less.aspx

    Objective reality approves of stripping women of their rights, as a society which does not, vanishes from existence. Traditional here = a higher degree of pagan, Aryan, healthy.

  79. @Adûnâi

    I used to believe in this idea that the brown races ruined this and that civilization too, until I realized that in a given civilization, “outside” races didn’t come in until later because it wasn’t until the civilization became “imperial” and spread out, and thus encountered the other races in the first place, that other races started to be incorporated into it. By that time, the civilization had become bloated and bureaucratic, and needlessly complicated, and then it becomes “The Collapse Of Complex Societies” material.

  80. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Grim Joker

    Some of us love ❤️ 💕 just love Linh. His American articles were great. He moved to Vietnam. And we, his fans love ❤️ his Asian articles.

    The Vietnam stories are a pleasant relief from Israel’s latest misdeeds and news about anti White racism.

    Off topic. Anyone been to Terminal One San Francisco Airport lately? . It’s now the Harvey Milk Terminal. He was an early gay activist who was shot along with the Mayor. There’s a mile long wall honoring him. Diiiiizzzzzzgusting.
    Must be the only airport in the world honoring sodomy and AIDS.

  81. Anonymous[257] • Disclaimer says:
    @Adûnâi

    According to the Roman historians, the women of the pre Christian Pagan Aryan German and Celtic tribes they conquered had equal rights with the men.

    According to Greek historians, the ancient Pagan pre Christian Aryan Indo European Greek women had virtually no rights.

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