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Coincidence or Conspiracy: What Are the Odds?
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A man takes out a lavish, grossly excessive insurance policy on his wife. The next day she keels over dead. Which hypothesis should guide the detective assigned to the case? (A) It’s probably just a coincidence, no need to investigate. (B) There’s a significant probability of foul play, so the husband should be considered a suspect, at least until a thorough investigation definitively clears him.

Intuitively, most of us k now that the correct answer is “B.” We don’t need probability theory to tell us that, any more than we need Einstein to tell us that Jeffrey Epstein didn’t kill himself.

But wait! Here comes a mathematically-inclined professional debunker, who explains: “Actually, more than ten million life insurance policies are taken out every year, with the insured person averaging 19.2 years of life expectancy after the initial policy purchase, so 500,000 annually-insured people die each year which means more than 1300 annually-insured people die each day. The insured wife in your example could easily have been one of those 1300 people who just happened to die on that particular day, which just happened to be the day after the husband bought the policy. So it must have been a coincidence. No need to investigate.”

Wikipedia, The New York Times, Snopes, DHS’s Disinformation Governance Board, and assorted fact-checkers all agree. Social media labels people who suspect the husband of murder and insurance fraud “conspiracy theorists” and disables the accounts of those who voice their suspicions.

And then it gets worse. The husband uses part of his gargantuan insurance settlement (with additional help from unknown but very wealthy parties) to sue selected alternative media outlets for libel. He says the alternative media has tormented him by reporting on the people who want him investigated for murder and insurance fraud. He says his feelings have been hurt and he has had to move and change his phone number and seek psychological counseling. He says the “conspiracy theorists” are tormenting him by being so disrespectful of the dead (his wife) and the grieving survivor (himself).

A reasonable judge and/or jury might rule:

“We’re terribly sorry, Mr. Innocent Widower, but even assuming that you really are innocent, it was and remains entirely reasonable for alternative media outlets to voice their suspicions based on the undeniable fact that you bought a grossly excessive insurance policy on your wife the day before she keeled over dead.”

But what if Mr. Innocent Widower could produce an expert witness: a mathematician who swears on a stack of Principia Mathematicas that probability theory proves the odds are over 95% that Mr. Widower is innocent, and the timing of the insurance purchase was just a coincidence? In the absence of expert testimony to the contrary, and with the entire mainstream media supporting poor bullied Mr. Widower, the judge and jury might jettison common sense and say: “Jeepers, that pretty much proves the guy’s innocent! Those conspiracy theorists sure are a stupid, nasty bunch of reality deniers! Why won’t they just ‘trust the science’?”

The above example is, of course, fictitious and hypothetical. But its resemblance to actual events is more than coincidental.

Take Richard Gutjahr—please! Gutjahr has a way of popping up in the strangest places. As I wrote in 2018:

Remember the amazing “terror journalist” Richard Gutjahr? The man with the uncanny ability to show up, pre-positioned, to take iconic footage of “Islamic terror” attacks?

Gutjahr, married to Israeli black ops specialist Einat Wilf, just happened to be on a balcony in Nice, France to film the beginning of the “truck attack.” His footage was essentially the ONLY footage of the event ever seen by the world.

Then one week later, Gutjahr and his daughter both just happened to be at the shopping mall in Munich where the next big “Islamic terror” event burst into the headlines. Once again, the MSM led with Gutjahr’s (and his daughter’s) footage.

It takes chutzpah to pre-position yourself to get the lead footage of two “terror attacks” one week, and 800 km, apart. But it takes even more chutzpah to sue journalists who report your apparent foreknowledge.

Gutjahr, apparently not lacking in chutzpah, sued German journalist Gerhard Wisnewski for reporting the highly suspicious facts. But even in Zionist-owned-and-operated Germany, such chutzpah was too much for the courts to stomach. Below is Wisnewski’s report on his legal victory over the hapless Gutjahr, a more obvious terror suspect than Bin Laden ever was, who obviously needs to be arrested and interrogated. Anybody out there who can rendition him?

I stand by my 2018 statement that Gutjahr is an obvious terror suspect. But he’s just a suspect. He could be innocent. It could be just a coincidence that he happened to be perfectly positioned to film the most-used media footage of two spectacular, ultra-media-hyped “Islamist terror attacks,” in two different nations, in the same week…and that he also just happens to be married to an Israeli intelligence officer. But…what are the odds?!

Now here is where it really gets weird. Gutjahr has just “shown up” at another “suspicious location”: A seemingly well-financed website called Rootclaim that pretends to have developed an app for determining the odds that any given “conspiracy theory” is true:

Rootclaim was developed by one of Gutjahr’s in-laws, a certain Saar Wilf, who is presumably related to Gutjahr’s wife Einat. (These people know how to keep it in the family!) Saar and Einat Wilf not only share a last name, but have co-authored an article on COVID. Of course that might be mere coincidence; they could be completely unrelated. But…what are the odds?

Rootclaim seems reasonably open to non-mainstream perspectives…at least on issues where the Wilf-Gutjahr family doesn’t have skin in the game. It tells us there is an 86% chance that Putin does not have cancer, a 96% chance that the anti-Assad US-NATO backed forces (not Assad) attacked al-Ghouta with chemical weapons, and an 86% chance that COVID-19 “was developed during gain-of-function research and was released by accident.”

That’s all well-and-good. But again: What are the odds that Richard Gutjahr, or any TV host for that matter, would just happen to be the unique person in position to shoot the first and most-used footage of two successive major terror attacks? For some strange reason, Rootclaim hasn’t run those calculations.

When we estimate the odds of such things, we need to consider background information. For example: How relevant is the fact, attested to by Wikipedia, that Richard Gutjahr is married to a former Israeli intelligence officer?

Wikipedia tells us that Gutjahr’s “coincidental presence at events gave rise to conspiracy theories, alleging his presence at both events could not have been a coincidence. Gutjahr has pressed charges against those who make the allegations,[21][22] which he sees mostly motivated by antisemitism against his wife considering the often antisemitic nature of the hostilities.” (Funny how Wikipedia tells us that Gutjahr “pressed charges” against journalists like Gerhard Wisnewski but fails to mention the outcome: Gutjahr suffered a crushing defeat in court.)

And then…bring on the obligatory charges of anti-Semitism! Whoever is editing Wikipedia apparently thinks it is “anti-Semitic” to notice that Israel is the only nation that has benefited from the “war on terror,” an episode of international mass hysteria elicited by a string of alleged “Islamic terror attacks” in which the Israeli government in general, and its intelligence community in particular, is the leading suspect.

Was it just a coincidence that the people who happened to be pre-positioned near the New Jersey waterfront at the perfect spot to film the attack on the Twin Towers, and who filmed and wildly celebrated the attacks before being arrested, were Israeli spies who later confessed they had been sent there “to document the event”?

Was it just a coincidence that the mysterious “Janek” who was pre-positioned on a rooftop to film the iconic footage of “the Charlie Hebdo terrorists’ escape” turned out to be an Israeli agent? As Hicham Hamza wrote:

At the origin of this (iconic Charlie Hebdo) video – filmed, oddly enough, without apparent fear of being hit by a stray bullet – in which one of the Charlie Hebdo attackers (who would soon flee in the direction of a Parisian establishment used by the Israeli army) declaims, with his left index finger pointed towards the sky, that he had “avenged the Prophet” – is a mysterious anonymous Pole, blurred by the television media, who vanishes without a trace – having been employed by a long-standing family enterprise of Laurent Dassault, ultra-Zionist multimillionaire connected to the military and radical wing of the Tel Aviv regime.

There is a mass of evidence, circumstantial and otherwise, that implicates Israel in 9/11, the 7/7/2005 London bombings, the Paris attacks of January and November 2015, and indeed most of the highest-profile GWOT terror incidents attributed to “Islamic extremists.” So Richard Gutjahr’s being married to an Israeli intelligence officer, and then magically showing up to film the beginnings of two successive terror attacks, does seem a tad suspicious. And his presence at a website selling an app that claims to mathematically arbitrate between mainstream and non-mainstream narratives seems not just suspicious, but bizarre…if not downright absurd. If noticing such things makes you “anti-Semitic,” then the alternative to “anti-Semitism” is sheer unmitigated idiocy.

Is mainstream media idiotic…or complicit? What are the odds?

(Republished from Substack by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Media, Conspiracy Theories 
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  1. Notsofast says:

    a man takes out a lavish, grossly excessive insurance policy on a building complex he just leased for a song (because the buildings required billions in asbestos removal). six weeks later…..

  2. Most here who visit this site pretty much know that the media is the very central part of the conspiracy to murder 90% of us, and to use the rest of us as their digi-controlled slaves.

    Instead of hitting on the obvious, why not you use your knowledge of the Middle Eastern (Arabic) media to let us know what they are sold over there; do their newspaper and media bullshit constantly, or do they give out more truthful accounts?

    • Troll: JWalters
    • Replies: @anon
    , @Rev. Spooner
  3. J says: • Website

    Thousands in New York were filming the extraordinary collapse of the two tower buildings. Any Israeli with a camera would have filmed the event. What about the fanatic, suicidal Islamic terrorists piloting the planes? Who have publicly announced they will destroy sinful America?

  4. @J

    How many New Yorkers were dancing?

    • LOL: mark green
    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  5. Bro43rd says:
    @J

    1000s were filming the collapse but the 6 dancing Israelis referenced filmed the initial impacts & collapse, all the while dancing & celebrating. Just a tad suspicious!

  6. Anon[249] • Disclaimer says:

    Great find Kevin Barrett. God loves the truth and on judgement day, he is going to reveal every “secret hidden thing” that the evil have done to the innocent or to frame the innocent, or worst of all lead decent guys and gals in a nation’s military to attack an innocent nation based on lies.

    • Replies: @Brad Anbro
  7. SafeNow says:

    Umbrella man. (what are the odds that on a beautiful Dallas day, there is only one person along the motorcade route standing under his raised umbrella, and lo, that person is situated at the exact spot of the assassination.)

    Probably Gutjahr was a time traveler, traveling back from the future to witness and document events. Many sci fi movies and novels are based upon this premise. Google “Profile in Silver” to view an excellent one. It is an episode of the New Twilight Zone. It is free, without ads.

    • Thanks: JWalters
    • Replies: @Carroll price
    , @Methinks
  8. Jacobite2 says: • Website

    I’ve always wonder if any mathematically-inclined individual has worked out the probability that the first Vice-President in US history to be removed from office got the boot just before the first POTUS in US history was chased out of office one step ahead of being impeached?

  9. Sparkon says:

    The so-called “Dancing Israelis” were never observed dancing on 9/11, so how did they come to be known by this somewhat misleading moniker?

  10. @Bro43rd

    There’s no evidence that they ever filmed the initial attack. The report of Maria says that they drove up after the first attack had occurred. So, “we were there to document the event” simply means “we drove up to get on the building after the first attack had occurred because we wanted to document the event the way a lot of other people did.” It does not mean “we knew everything that was going to happen in advance before it occurred, and we were planning in advance to document it once it happened.” No doubt these Mossad agents must have had some information indicating that a terrorist attack was likely to be attempted soon. But they wouldn’t need to have known all the specifics in order to start filming once the attack happened.

    • Replies: @Notsofast
    , @Sparkon
    , @map
  11. @nokangaroos

    I’ve known some conservatives who almost verge on dancing when they hear about San Francisco getting covered with feces because of the social policies followed by the Democrats. But that doesn’t prove that the social decay in this region is caused by a vast Right-wing conspiracy. It may really just be caused by Democratic social policies. Likewise, there are plenty of Israelis who will snicker when they hear about some white Westerners being hit by an Arab terrorist attack. But that’s a separate issue from how much specific information did the Mossad have in advance.

  12. Anonymous[393] • Disclaimer says:

    Rootclaim is the best of all these similar sites. It’s an IQ test.

    Do you let Zionazi genocidaires explain obvious Jew State ratfucks?

    Yes ❌️
    No

    Your IQ is 68.

    Do you ever believe anything Jew State sniper cowards say?

    Yes
    No ❌️

    Your IQ is 100 or more.

    • Replies: @Stealth
    , @Anon
  13. Notsofast says:
    @Patrick McNally

    no doubt these mossad agents…..that should be enough to clue you in right there, why would you ever give the mossad, the bennefit of the doubt?

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  14. @Notsofast

    Alternatively, why give Islamic fanatics any benefit of doubt? There were lots of them who celebrated 911. But that wouldn’t matter if, say, there was real evidence of a controlled demolition bringing the Towers down (there isn’t). As far as the Israeli spies go, the CIA has always been legally barred from engaging domestic intelligence gathering (that is supposed to be the FBI’s job). But the CIA has often worked to get around those restraints. In this case it appears that the CIA was allowing Mossad agents to work within the US, while maintaining contact with the Mossad. To the extent that one may postulate a LIHOP-theory here, the usual version would be that the Mossad knew something that would have prevented 911 but willfully chose not to pass it on to the CIA. Maybe that will one day be proven true, but it hasn’t been yet. It is quite plausible that these Israeli agents tracked the Arab terrorists around with the expectation that they were about to do something, but perhaps did not know the specifics until the attack occurred. If someone is going to allege more than that, then better evidence is certainly required.

    I’m looking forward to a day when Black Lives Matter burns Hollywood to the ground and we get a bunch of conspiracy theorists going on and on: “But when BLM burned Hollywood to a cinder, the readers at UNZ seemed to be dancing. They talked like they knew this was going to happen.”

    • Agree: Wizard of Oz
    • Troll: Olivier1973
    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Notsofast
    , @Iris
  15. Sparkon says:
    @Patrick McNally

    There’s no evidence that they ever filmed the initial attack.

    Yes there is. The Urban Moving System van was spotted in the parking lot of the Doric apartments by 8:00 am on September 11, 2001, so the Israeli photo team was in position to document the entire event.

    Please see my previous comment, which includes a link to the FBI and police files on the “Dancing Israelis.”

    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-role-in-9-11/?showcomments#comment-3247322

    • Thanks: Bro43rd, Notsofast, WingsofADove, W
    • Replies: @dimples
  16. > The Urban Moving System van was spotted in the parking lot of the Doric apartments by 8:00 am on September 11, 2001, so the Israeli photo team was in position to document the entire event.

    Whether or not they had been in a certain area at 8 AM has no bearing on Maria’s testimony that “Like a few minutes must have gone on, and all of a sudden down there I see this van park.”

    http://www.thehypertexts.com/Twin%20Towers%209-11%20Five%20Dancing%20Israelis%20Mossad%20Donald%20Trump.htm

    So, they were not in the position where Maria saw them “taking a movie” at the time when the plane hit. Otherwise, they would not have had to park. Whatever they were doing at 8 AM, between then and Maria seeing them, they went and did something else.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  17. Already by 1967, Jim Garrison wryly commented:

    “Witnesses in this case do have a habit of dying at the most inconvenient times. I understand a London insurance firm has prepared an actuarial chart on the likelihood of 20 of the people involved in this case dying within three years of the assassination — and found the odds 30 trillion to one. But I’m sure NBC will shortly discover that one of my investigators bribed the computer.”

    Indeed, as Kevin implies, the case for the assassination hypothesis is stronger than the case that the sun is a star and that DNA is the genetic material.

    • Thanks: emerging majority
  18. Sparkon says:
    @Patrick McNally

    Maria was not the only eyewitness to the Urban Moving Systems van in the Doric parking lot on the morning of 9/11. If you’d bothered to read the FBI report, you’d know that.

    What is more, Maria had paid no attention to the parking lot or the WTC until she was alerted by her neighbor around 9:00 am. It was while looking at the burning WTC through binoculars that she happened to notice three guys kneeling on the roof of a van in the parking lot of her apartment complex. They had arrived and gone to work long before Maria had paid any attention to them, so yes, they were in position to document the entire event.

    On 9/11/2001, [redacted] a housewife and Union City, NJ resident, advised that at approximately 9:00am, 9/11/2001 … neighbor, called her on the telephone to tell her that she … saw smoke coming from the WTC. In order to see the WTC more closely, … used 7x33mm power binoculars to view the scene. From the rear window of her apartment, and while looking in the direction of the WTC, … observed three (3) males kneeling on the roof of a white van located in the rear parking lot of her apartment complex…

    […]

    …Subsequent investigation by Newark Criminal Division agents revealed a second eyewitness who reported having observed the a [sic] white van in the same parking lot described by [redacted] This eyewitness, however, observed the van in the parking lot as early as 8:00am on the morning of the explosions at WTC.

    https://archive.org/details/DancingIsraelisFBIReport/fbi%20report%20section%201/page/n32/mode/1up?view=theater

    [points to 2nd paragraph; scroll up a bit for the 1st]

    • Thanks: JWalters, mark green
    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  19. A couple of small points, Kevin – just to split hairs.
    Insurance companies have actuaries who already calculate the risk of someone dying. If the detectives were not investigating the woman dropping dead the next day, my guess is that the insurance company would. But your point is well taken.
    You left out the 2004 Madrid bombings likely being another Israeli job.
    http://just-another-inside-job.blogspot.com/2007/04/madrid-bombing-mossad-operation.html

    • Replies: @Liosnagcat
  20. phillip says:

    Along the line of the “what are the odds” ideas here I’ve wondered what are the odds that only one man, a Jewish fellow, out of all the people there was in that spot with a movie camera aimed at President Kennedy at just the right time.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  21. No need for math.

    Follow the money. Almost every war has been about money. Especially WW1 and 2. And every war by the USA since 1989.

    Big money? No fucking way it is a coincidence.

    • Agree: Old and Grumpy
    • Replies: @Brad Anbro
  22. frankie p says:

    Never apologize for stating facts and truth, especially when someone says it’s antisemitic.

  23. JWalters says:

    Great article, and great supplementary comments. The few attempts to divert attention or counter Kevin’s argument are flimsy.

    An insurance company will not place a huge bet that event X is highly unlikely unless they calculate that event X is indeed highly unlikely. At that they are pros.

    Another line of analysis would be to ask how many insurance scams occur, what are the typical features of such scams, and did situation X have any such features? For example, if an exorbitant policy requires a payout soon after being purchased, how likely is it to be a scam?

  24. JWalters says:
    @Notsofast

    six weeks later…..

    he wins the lottery.

  25. Roberta says:

    Chosen. Jews are chosen as the more perfect human life form. Jews, therefore, decided.

  26. bert33 says:

    I think a lot of people have generally dismissed the press in all its forms as a horseship factory. PNN for the lead-off then PNN2, AKA FOX, then others both national and international.

    Does israel play a role in geopolitical skulduggery? Maybe. Current reports talk about assassinations and sabotage in Iran with israeli operatives being suspected. But, the burden of proof is upon the international community and from what we’re reading, they are none too swift to start with and also under the influence of politics, then there’s the 4th estate, constantly sticking their noses in other people’s business and its anybody’s guess how much honest substance there is in modern journalism or lack of bias etc. Its a liars club out there, so, reader beware.

  27. Toza says:

    Great article, Kevin.

  28. Caruthers says:
    @Patrick McNally

    How could the dancing Israelis have known that those piloting the planes were Arabs?

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  29. Anon[831] • Disclaimer says:

    [There is a mass of evidence, circumstantial and otherwise, that implicates Israel in 9/11, the 7/7/2005 London bombings, the Paris attacks of January and November 2015, and indeed most of the highest-profile GWOT terror incidents attributed to “Islamic extremists.”]

    None of these terrors were staged without US green light and knowledge of it. The 9/11 terror was designed and staged by the US and Israel. They knew they were lying to the public in order to start their FAKE “war on terror” to weaken the Islamic countries by killing millions of Muslims.
    The Spain Train Bombings in 2004, where killed 193 and injured more than 1800 people, was another false flag operation designed and staged by the same terrorist states. They accused Al Qaeda carrying the terror where is a LIE. Al Qaeda was US trained proxy in Afghanistan. They staged a show arresting many innocent Muslims to deceive the public. The main terrorist states were and still are the US and Israel.
    March 11, 2004 – Coordinated attacks including 10 bombs on four commuter trains at three different stations kill 191 people and wound more than 1,800.
    March 13, 2004 – Five people are arrested in connection to the case 60 hours after the bombings.
    What was the reason behind FAST identification of the ‘terrorists’ in this case? As usual they fabricated the evidence.
    [Prepaid phone cards and a cell phone from backpacks found at the bombing site link the five to the investigation.]
    I remember at the time, the media claimed the authorities had found a bag without any damage that contained small notebook full of names, phone numbers as well as addresses. They fabricated this ‘evidence’. US and Israel are always lucky to find either the ‘terrorists” passports or their calendars containing their names, including the names and address of their ‘friends’.
    They arrested 29 Muslims. After 3 years, one person found innocent and was let free.

    October 31, 2007 – Verdicts are read for the remaining 28 defendants. Three men were found guilty of the most serious charges and given 40 years in prison. Eighteen defendants are found guilty of lesser charges. Seven defendants are acquitted, including alleged mastermind Rabei Osman.
    All these terror have been staged to bring NWO where ‘greater Israel’ is part of the plan where still is in progress. They should be destroyed before they are able to carry it out fully.

    July 17, 2008 – Four defendants have their convictions overturned.

    May 12, 2009 – Ten of the 14 suspected Islamic militants accused of assisting the three suspects are acquitted by Spain’s anti-terrorism court. The ruling gives the remaining four sentences between two and nine years for falsifying documents or being part of a terrorist group.
    January 13, 2010 – A Spanish court convicts five men accused of Islamic terrorist activities,

    February 2011 – Spain’s Supreme Court overturns the lower court’s conviction of the five men convicted in January 2010 for Islamic terrorist activities.

    • Thanks: emerging majority
  30. @phillip

    What would have been the objective of Jewish plotters who got Zabruder to go to a particular spot and start filming there? If he wasn’t a part of the plot that would have been very risky. If he was how come the FBI were able to get hold of the complete film originally.
    ?

  31. map says:
    @Patrick McNally

    9/11 happened in 2001. People did not have iPhones then. There was no one able to just whip out a cell phone and take footage.

    So a bunch of Israelis just happen to be carrying enough camera gear to film this event?

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  32. Why is a disgusting lying rat kike using an Irish name to hide his nose?

  33. Anonymous[259] • Disclaimer says:

    Time travelers taking advantage of inside information.

    Note the chief suspect’s name is Gutjahr, which means Good Year im Deutsch.

    As Frank sang it: It was a very good year…

  34. Hitch says:

    VAERS reports 30,000 Covid Vaccine deaths, 170,000 hospitalizations and 1,350,000 reports of adverse reactions. Steve Kirsch estimates that this is under reported by a factor of 41. Yet Ron Unz insists that the vaccines are “safe and effective” and that anyone who denies this “fact” is a “vaxx hoaxer”.

    The only possible way to explain all this cognitive dissonance bitch slapping us across the face every day is by acute and pervasive mind control.

  35. eah says:
    @Sparkon

    Don’t take ‘dancing’ literally — this is just a colloquial description of their behavior that became popular on the internet — celebrating Israelis would be more accurate.

    9/11: The FBI Report and the Dancing Israelis Standing Truth on its Ear

    The description of their behavior comes from a witness usually named as Maria — the report of the FBI’s interview with Maria is in the released documents; it can be viewed on what’s shown as pg 32 here:

    All of the males appeared to be jovial in that they smiled, hugged one another, and gave ‘high fives’.

  36. GMC says:

    Well Doc. you opened up another can of worms . And now we can use your wordage ” What’s the chances or odds that this or that could have been just a coincidence”. We can see that most of the USG stuff in the past 50 years – was no chance happening.

    What’s the odds that the 2 US political parties were in fact taken over by one – called the Zionist Party, Well now let’s look at a couple facts. The President and Vice Prez. has stated years previous to any dementia that they are devout Zionists, about or at least 50% of the politicians in Washington pledge their allegiance or support of Israel, the Presidents administration has a huge majority of NeoCon Zionists with dual citizenship, and we could go on with more coincidences but Ya – your article works.

    • Agree: Notsofast
    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  37. @Sparkon

    So, a 2nd witness reports having seen “a white van in the same parking lot”? It’s not at all clear that this is even the same white van. From reading the description, this 2nd witness never actually saw anyone get out of the van or set anything up. This could very well just be a completely different white van which had nothing to do with the one seen by Maria. Assuming that it is in fact the same van, there’s no indication that they were doing anything here to set up a filming of any event. Maria’s report that she saw the “van park” is clearer. Maria’s description is consistent with the claim that made by the arrestees’ attorney that:

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/03/WTC/spies10.html

    “On the day of the disaster, three of the five boys went up on the roof of the building where the company office is located … Anyhow, the three left the roof, took an Urban truck, and drove to a parking lot, located about a five-minute drive from the offices. They parked, stood on the roof of the truck to get a better view of the destroyed towers and took photographs. A woman who was in the building above the lot testified that she saw them smiling and exchanging high-fives. She and another neighbor called the police and reported on Middle-Eastern looking people dancing on the truck. They copied and reported the license plates.”

    So, the defense attorney is claiming that they were actually at the company office when the attack happened, went up on the roof of the company office, then drove to the parking lot and got on top of the van. That at least is consistent with Maria’s account that she saw the van park. Was the same van really there at 8 AM, and if so, what was the motive? Seems impossible to tell. But that 8 AM is nothing to hang a hat on. With no indication that anyone got out of the van at the 8 AM time, there isn’t much that can be deduced.

    • Troll: Olivier1973
  38. @J

    What about the fanatic, suicidal Islamic terrorists piloting the planes?

    Urban legend.

  39. @Curmudgeon

    A couple of small points, Kevin – just to split hairs.

    You said it!

  40. @Bro43rd

    In an Israeli TV interview they confessed they were there “to document the event”, clearly indicating they had foreknowledge.

    For the rest, the whole 9/11 event is full of such “coincidences”. Rule of thumb: if there is a combination of too many “coincidences”, then it is no coincidence but a conscious plan.

    Jews are not as intelligent as they imagine to be. When you study them, their deceptions become clear enough. Their worldly success is more based on chutzpah than real intelligence. The meaning of chutzpah is “shamelessness”.

  41. Another “coincidence” on 9/11 was that a van of Israeli owned Urban Moving Systems was painted with a scene depicting the twin towers being hit by a plane. Pure “coincidence” or pure chutzpah?

  42. @Patrick McNally

    Conceded.

    [sounds of grudging]

    It also means they obsess day and night over how terrorism is
    “good for the Jews” -> which in turn constititues motive.

  43. anonymous[122] • Disclaimer says:

    The biggest suspicious ‘coincidence’ theme of all – the endless huge waves of covid-vaccinated young people dying in hugely higher numbers than ever before seen in history

    JUST A COINCIDENCE AND UNRELATED TO THE COVID ‘VACCINE’ JABS THEY RECEIVED

    https://www.europereloaded.com/vaccines-death-by-coincidence-robert-f-kennedy-jr/

    • Thanks: GMC
    • Replies: @Thirdtwin
  44. @Sparkon

    True , they should have been known by the moniker ‘High Five’.

  45. Anon[308] • Disclaimer says:

    What are the odds that the only ((anti-jewish)) conspiracy site that claims to be highbrow intellectual is run by a Jewish hedge fund billionaire?

  46. Anon[308] • Disclaimer says:
    @Patrick McNally

    Your obsequiousness and eagerness to apologize for the Zionist power elite is truly breathtaking.

    But the CIA has often worked to get around those restraints. In this case it appears that the CIA was allowing Mossad agents to work within the US, while maintaining contact with the Mossad

    I believe that’s the job of the FBI to monitor domestic spies and security. No doubt you are an enthusiastic supporter of the Federal Reserve, another Jew run private entity that our government outsourced responsibility to.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  47. MPO says:
    @Sparkon

    An eye witness saw them laughing, smiling, high-fiving, and generally celebrating.

    That’s close enough to “dancing” for someone with a rational mind.

    It’s not like they had to hoist themselves into the air while singing hava nagila to qualify.

  48. Karl1906 says:
    @Bro43rd

    Actually, most any film clip you see from the “impact” of the “planes” into the towers is from the same source. Watch “September Clues” if you haven’t already.

  49. Loup-Bouc says:

    Kevin Barrett wrote:

    But what if Mr. Innocent Widower could produce an expert witness: a mathematician who swears on a stack of Principia Mathematicas that probability theory proves the odds are over 95% that Mr. Widower is innocent, and the timing of the insurance purchase was just a coincidence? In the absence of expert testimony to the contrary, and with the entire mainstream media supporting poor bullied Mr. Widower, the judge and jury might jettison common sense and say: “Jeepers, that pretty much proves the guy’s innocent!

    Mr. Barrett puts a good point. Starting in the late 1970s, some American legal scholars convinced some judges that statistical methods, Pascalian probability, and Bayesian probability could substitute for the common law’s standards of sufficiency of litigational proof. The substitution was jurisprudentially indefensible and violated the due process clauses of the 5th and 14th amendments of the U.S. constitution.

    In Anglo-American law, even if the plaintiff or prosecutor alleges (properly) a matter of probability, still the allegation’s advocate must prove the probability NOT by probabilistic proof, but (in an ordinary civil case) by a “preponderance of the evidence” or (in a criminal case) by “proof beyond reasonable doubt.”

    A “preponderance of the evidence” does NOT equal “the greater of probabilities,” “more probable than not,”or “what is mathematically probable.” A “preponderance of the evidence” is a matter of moral/logical “weight.” The fact-finder must find in favor of an allegation if the fact-finder determines that the allegation-supporting proofs bear “weight” greater than the “weight” of proofs and impeachments that oppose the allegation.

    “Proof beyond reasonable doubt” is proof that moves the fact-finder (usually a jury, sometimes a judge) not to have any reasonable doubt that an allegation is true. If the fact-finder has any moral/logical doubt that the prosecution has proved the essential allegations of the criminal complaint, the fact-finder must render a verdict of acquittal.

    More important: In litigation, even when an issue is one of math or arithmetic, the fitting logic cannot reduce to number-crunching. The matter is whether the alleged mathematical or arithmetical allegation has been proven by a “preponderance of the evidence” or by “proof beyond reasonable doubt.”

    See:
    (a) Leonard R. Jaffee, Of Probativity and Probability: Statistics, Scientific Evidence, and the Calculus of Chance at Trial, 46 University of Pittsburgh Law. Rev. 925 (1985) — available in law school libraries and libraries of federal courts and state appellate courts and available (for a price) online here: https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/upitt46&div=37&id=&page=
    and
    (b) Leonard R. Jaffee, Prior Probability — A Black Hole in the Mathematician’s View of the Sufficiency and Weight of Evidence, 9 Cardozo Law Rev. 967 (1988) — available in law school libraries and libraries of federal courts and state appellate courts and available (for a price) online here: https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/cdozo9&div=44&id=&page=

    See also: Leonard R. Jaffee, Of scientist-antics and mad-ematics and delusio-linguistics and logic-ish belief, after (below) that article’s heading “INCONSISTENCY OF COMMUTATIVITY OF MULTIPLICATION.” That article is published here: https://leonardrjaffee.substack.com/p/of-scientist-antics-and-mad-ematics

    • Thanks: EdwardM
  50. Biff says:

    Great article written by an all-being logic wizard. ;^)

    • Agree: GMC
  51. Coincidences kill. So much that they have become the main cause of excess, premature deaths lately.

    • Agree: GMC
  52. You forgot to mention that “his wife” was riddled with asbestos poisoning and was pretty unisurable at that point.

  53. Chances are it was the same players who murdered 22 innocent children and adults whilst attending a conert by Ariana Grande in Manchester 5 years ago. You don’t hear a peep from the media about that event, and that story, along with countless others, went right downt the memory hole. Unfortunately, just like many other alternative newsites like this one, most Americans will never read these stories as they are always labelled as “Anti-Semetic” sites when you google them.

  54. Stealth says:
    @Anonymous

    And citizens with IQs between those two numbers have no opinion on the matter at all 😉

  55. Anon[191] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    How dare you call Israel a death cult state.

    • Replies: @goeshittheragman
  56. Anonymous[661] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sparkon

    They were indeed seen filming and dancing by a witness who called police to report it as suspicious activity. To my knowledge, the ‘dancing Israelis’ never denied doing either. In fact, they admitted to being intelligence agents for the illegitimate state of Israel.

  57. Anonymous[100] • Disclaimer says:

    What are the odds if there were no Jews left in the world that it would be a peaceful place?

  58. eah says:

    (Funny how Wikipedia tells us that Gutjahr “pressed charges” against journalists like Gerhard Wisnewski but fails to mention the outcome: Gutjahr suffered a crushing defeat in court.)

    It’s mentioned in the German version:

    Im Juni 2018 verlor er einen Prozess vor dem Oberlandesgericht Köln gegen Gerhard Wisnewski wegen einer Passage in dessen Buch verheimlicht – vertuscht – vergessen, weil „die Darstellung Wisnewskis viel zu vage“ sei, „um sich überhaupt als Verdachtsberichterstattung zu qualifizieren“.

    Did you try editing the English page to add this info? — it’s editable, and seems overdue: das Urteil liegt ja heutzutage mehr als vier Jahre her.

    This part of the court’s decision (from your VT article about the ruling; the translation seems roughly correct) is interesting:

    “In assessing the content of a statement, the contested statement must always be judged in the overall context in which it occurred”, the OLG stated concerning Wisnewskis reporting. “In judging the meaning of a text it must be assessed in the whole context and must not be ripped out and completely isolated from the rest.“

    After a summary judgment against Jim Fetzer (which he’s now appealing to SCOTUS), a jury awarded Sandy Hook parent Leonard Posner \$450k for defamation — per Fetzer, he was sued for only a few sentences in the book Nobody Died at Sandy Hook that is hundreds of pages long (only a small portion of it written by Fetzer) — so those sentences were obviously taken out of context — ?

    On the pretext of satisfying the judgment, Posner has now returned to court to seize the copyright to the book, which as part of his settlement with Posner another party who was also sued agreed not to continue publishing (Amazon banned the sale of the book long ago) — obviously Posner has no intention of selling the book either, which Fetzer could conceivably do were he to remove the sentences deemed defamatory to Posner.

    It’s a very strange case. one where the courts are clearly being abused to persecute and silence Fetzer — Alex Jones is going thru the same thing right now.

    • Replies: @eah
  59. Jimmy1969 says:

    A rambling piece of sophistry with no credibility at all. During first year University I was taught to make some arguments and assertions and draw some logical conclusions but not to make any simple factual obvious errors or you blow all of your credibility for everything else. Like do not say that WW1 started in 1923 or that Pearl Harbor started in 1934. This Barrett fellow makes the same simple mistake many first year kids do. He states in the second Paragraph of his useless rant that Epstein did not kill himself. Right off the bat he ruined himself. Why would anyone believe anything else he wrote? Or will ever write.

  60. @J

    (J) you sound like a shill. you said thousands were filming that event. Their were two plane strikes (J)…Thousands indeed were filming the SECOND strike on the south tower. Only 2 filmed the first strike on the north tower. A film crew doing a documentary on the FDNY just below the path of the first plane. (Who simply had to pan up as they heard the large jet approach) and the second group were the dancing/ cheering Israelis who were all set up across the Hudson filming the towers for no reason whatsoever… What are the odds (J)? What are the odds a shill is called J.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  61. _dude says:

    Wow, so many Cohencidences.

  62. Josh Acid says:

    Sometimes people get a mysterious injection, and then just drop dead. Probably a coincidence.

    • LOL: Bro43rd
  63. Thirdtwin says:
    @anonymous

    “Far, far away in the distant reaches of Earth’s atmosphere, scientists have finally homed in on a possible cause of the sudden rise in heart attacks around the world: space chemicals…Even though scientists believe that the chemical compounds needed to form hydrotrioxides have always existed in the atmosphere, they say that the compound may be able to penetrate aerosols, which can lead to respiratory and cardiovascular diseases, including heart attacks.”

    https://thecountersignal.com/scientists-blame-space-chemicals-for-rise-in-heart-attacks/

    This is but one excuse from a long list of supposed causes, including cold showers. Gateway Pundit has a good roundup here…

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/07/go-experts-now-warn-cold-showers-causing-heart-attacks-young-adults/

    …but no doubt the list has gotten longer by now. Anything and everything but the Jab.

  64. @Jacobite2

    I’ve always wonder if any mathematically-inclined individual has worked out the probability that the first Vice-President in US history to be removed from office got the boot just before the first POTUS in US history was chased out of office one step ahead of being impeached?

    Agreed.

    I have told the story about my grandpa bribing dozens of public officials in my state (CT) back in the day–nobody ever got caught–the mass media never found out about it.

    Agnew’s MD (and many other states) ran the same way.

    Information is power–proof of corruption of politicians to blackmail or remove them at will is real power.

  65. Anonymous[350] • Disclaimer says:

    Nowhere is the dishonest evaluation of evidence and probabilities more noticeably on display than that regarding 9/11, 7/11, and other Israeli false flags. Over one thousand years of hard-won victories in establishing valid conclusions from less than certain evidence has been thrown out the window if the evidence points toward Israeli and American Jewish culpability. Comment on any putatively conservative site about the overwhelmingly persuasive evidence pointing to Israel’s commission of 9/11 with the help of American Zionists, and you will be either held to an impossible standard of deductive proof or banned from commenting and automatically condemned for bad faith.

    The unspoken premise of the Republican Party, Fox News, and Conservative Inc’s claim that Israel and the Jews are above criticism—given the now proved absurdity of the Holocaust fantasy—is the unspoken premise that they have never and can never do anything wrong. Proof means nothing up against sacred myths of the Jewish ruling class.

    The Australian mathematician, philosopher, and renowned expert on the nature of all forms of evidence, whether in science, philosophy, ethics, or the law, Janes Franklin, has written the best book debunking such modern attempts to disqualify sound evidence on the grounds such evidence may, even in part, be less than conclusive. The book, The Science of Conjecture, Evidence and Probability before Pascal, is almost impossibly erudite and yet his writing style makes his arguments clear as day and imperative reading for debunking the absurd standards of evidence put up as barriers to discovering the truth of Israel’s guilt for 9/11.

    For example, if any piece of evidence or any of the hundred or so crass anomalies regarding 9/11 is subject to criticism, then the official narrative is said to be thereby proved beyond reasonable doubt. In fact and on the contrary, evidence, whether in science, philosophy, ethics, or the law can be combined and generally must be combined. As Franklin writes,

    Several more or less independent pieces of evidence tending toward the same conclusion (Israel’s guilt for 9/11 and the bogus nature of the Holocaust in this case) can support that conclusion strongly, even if the individual pieces are weak. The principle was mentioned in ancient physiognomies and understood by ancient commentators on law such as Quintilian and in medieval law. The technique of averaging noisy measurements of a quantity to obtain a more accurate value was known to Hipparchus and later astronomers.

    It is also the case, as a matter of circumstantial evidence and the law, that such elaborate, ongoing efforts at concealing Israel’s responsibility for 9/11 provide overwhelming proof of guilt on the part of Congress, the MSM, and the bought-and-paid-for conservative stooges encapsulating straightforward Jewish lies and propaganda within conservative memes.

  66. @Anon

    The only problem I’ve got is calling israel a country in the first place. The Arabs will get back what was stolen from them in the end.

  67. eah says:
    @eah

    Did you try editing the English page to add this info? — it’s editable, and seems overdue: das Urteil liegt ja heutzutage mehr als vier Jahre her.

    I edited the English language page about Gutjahr to include the info that he lost his court case — I tried to use the VT article as a reference, but it seems VT is blacklisted by Wikipedia — so I used an English translation about his court win from Wisnewski’s own website (link).

    A German court ultimately ruled against Gutjahr.[25]

    Check back later to see if the edit sticks.

  68. Anon[361] • Disclaimer says:

    Coincidence or Conspiracy: What Are the Odds?

    Who gives a shit ! If neither affects my interests I do not care.

    Take Epstein, people who don’t know him argue about the circumstances surrounding his death. A waste of time because these discussions change nothing !

    The Powers that be can shape a conspiracy into a coincidence. That’s just how it is and we can do nothing about it. Why agonise about things you cannot control ?

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  69. The attack on the WTC on 911 was done by Israel and traitors and dual Israeli citizens in the ZUS government including GW Bush and Cheney and blamed on the muslims to give the excuse to destroy the middle east for Israel and the greater Israel agenda.

    • Replies: @LarryS
  70. TG says:

    “Oh I believe in coincidences. I just don’t trust them.” Garak, Star Trek Deep Space 9

    “Once is a happenstance, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action.” Auric Goldfinger, from the James Bond film.

  71. Speaking of Odds:
    I bet Griner was setup by the Americans to get busted on purpose or more likely she works for them. Why? I have no direct evidence at all, simply this: She is

    A woman
    Black
    Lesbian
    Married to a woman
    Exotic – extremely tall and star of a sport traditionally practiced by males.

    Too much the obvious poster child.
    Probabilities are multiplicative. The respective probabilities are: 0.5, 0.15, 0.05, 0.25?, 0.005

    The product of those is quite small.

    Russia stopped its socialism and atheism. These recent social movements exist for no other reason than to criminalize and frame the country as evil. Same reason as Civil rights laws in 50s-60s America – commies got too much propaganda mileage showing film clips of lynchings and cops beating black marchers.

    The superendangered species of 7 foot tall lesbian black female multillionaire athlete with wife. Naturally the Russians want to trade her, they get it.

    • Replies: @EdwardM
    , @Capt Pappy
  72. @Anon

    Why agonise about things you cannot control ?

    Great question that deserves a straight answer.

    I am currently reading a wonderful book by Bart Sibel “Moon Man”. He has been fighting the good fight for decades with minimal impact. Most folks here (if they knew who he was) would believe the “official” claim that he is a conspiracy kook.

    Here is a quote:

    “Not only does history repeat itself, the cycle of instituted governments repeats itself as well….now the current system cleverly masquerades as the benevolent democratic republic that it once was, yet is no longer…this fallen government is eventually revolted against…and then anther government of personal liberty is re-established….What can be done to keep this deadly cycle from perpetually repeating….

    Seeing, recognizing, acknowledging and proclaiming this fraud….is the very tool which the country, and likely the world, can be rebuilt.”

    It is what people of honor–in any time and place–do–because that is who they are.

    It is because they hope for peaceful change instead of the awful alternative.

    To do otherwise is to deny their own humanity.

    • Replies: @Liosnagcat
  73. @Notsofast

    a wealthy NY businessman who happens to be Jewish and close friend of Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, with whom he converses daily by phone, just happened to take out a lavish, grossly excessive insurance policy on…

    there – fixed it for you.

    • Replies: @DaveE
  74. LarryS says:
    @Desert Fox

    Yep, a two-fer. Get the Muslims out of Greater Israel and send them to white, Christian Europe.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
  75. One thing that always seemed strange to me is that the terror attacks in Europe and US which seemed almost a weekly occurrence in the late Obama years stopped abruptly when trump took office. Why I wonder? You might argue that it had to do with trump’s strong anti Muslim travel ban, but perhaps something changed in the permissiveness towards these “attacks”. That also might factor into why trump was hated so much.

  76. This is a good example of the misuse of mathematics. Probability makes statements about classes of events, not particular events. For example, when the weatherman says that there is a fifty percent chance of rain tomorrow, he is talking nonsense. He is putting tomorrow into a class of days without any criterion. If it does rain tomorrow then, clearly, all days that it did not rain don’t belong in that class. The sneaky step is in the definition of the class.Whatever he used to define the criterion was inadequate. He might better have said, “given my knowledge, I have no clue.”

    • Replies: @the cleaner
    , @Stones
  77. @Jacobite2

    Shhhh. You may be giving people ideas. Didn’t you learn anything in school? You are never sposta go “off message” if you wanna get ahead in life. What will people think? History is politely swept under the rug and now you bring up this business. Tsk. Tsk.

    What if your bad example of the deposed bifecta of Spiraling outta control, going clear back to his immersion in Maryland politrix and Tricky Dick no longer heeding his master’s voice and ultimately not even going along with Heinz Killinger’s dulcet tones on behalf of the Rottenfeller agenda…what if that thoroughly interred history crosses the minds of the younger degenerations and they get to thinking not only bifecta but also a trifecta.

    Let’s see: Who gets to be on first? Yeah, who’s on first? Let’s try the famous lap-dancer who made her way up the San Francisco Democrat scrotum-pole by her little wriggles and moans skewered on Hizzhonor. Ditzy dame with all the right credentials …a genuine LeftCoast airhead. Epstein likely would not have had anything on her and Maxwell is not talking. Oh well.

    As long as we are inspectigating cushy affairs in the City by the Bay, how bout our World Traveler?

    That one is now in her nineties and like all too many women in that age stage, she gets a bit entangled in her own rhetoric. No problemo. The Party has her back and she has “earned” millions upon millions while “serving” her district at a somewhat modest annual Congre\$\$ional Salary. So how did she do dat? Makes one wanna think. Well, hush my mouff. Dontcha know that the sin of thinking might have a deleterious effect on “national security”? Which nation? Now don’t go rambling all the way to the Muddle East with that one.

    Now we finally rise like a buttermilk biscuit all the way up to center stage where the all-important cue-card is right in front of the Dodderer, atop the lectern. His eyes cross a bit when encountering a big word and then elsewhere encapsulated within the cranium, the thoughts go every which direction, to the total amusement of the world-wide witnesses.

    (S)elected, rather than elected (well hush my mouff again), this “gentleman”, known as the “Big Guy” by his wayward son, has long “represented” his state of DuPont and each and every major corporation across the globe. If there’s a political fix to me made, His Decrepitude, is front and center, ready to accept that flow of Shekels on behalf of his retention of his Catholic upbringing in one particular aspect. He resembles a cocker spaniel in being loyal and faithful.

    His loyalty is to those who have elevated him totally beyond the dreams of the Peter principle is non-perile…even if remembering the totality of his benefactors is a bit beyond his current State of Urination. At least it’s only “number one”. He likes the jingling tone of that term. If it comes to “number two”, he can always Depend(s) on plenty of backup.

    The U\$\$A has become a worldwide laughing-stock. All by design. If we call that design intelligent we might get that famous “Christian Xxxxxxx” in Fort Worthless all het up over mixing sacred with profane metaphors. After all, it’s not easy being a \$\$\$piritual whore.

    If only an honest Irishman, George Carlin, was still with us, perhaps with Hunter S. Thompson as backup. Our general state of despair combined with disgust would be drowned in belly-laughs.

    • Replies: @Anymike
    , @Capt Pappy
    , @JWalters
  78. @J

    From what I have read the Dancing Israelis came and parked there before the attacks happened and waited for the event. The lady who reported them said the did Hi5’s when it happened.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  79. Anonymous[625] • Disclaimer says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    The entire Jewish MO in dealing with people, any people including other Jews, is given to them in the Bible, Genesis, https://www.litcharts.com/lit/genesis/characters/jacob-israel . Jacob (trickster) encounters a supernatural being, wrestles throughout the night, loses ” Jacob’s hip was put out of joint as he wrestled with him.”, then talks his way into a blessing and claims to have won.

    Every Jewish person past puberty (and many before puberty) that I’ve dealt with has acted that way, so assume that’s what you’ll get also: a trickster with a story and complete treachery, but very little else.

    And maybe you will end up with quite different behavior, it’s possible, but the above is the way to bet.

  80. @SafeNow

    Speaking of JFK’s assassination and strange coincidences, what are the odds of a Jew named Abraham Zapruder “documenting the event” from an elevated pedestal located only a few feet from the motorcade, with a highly advanced (at that time), state-of-the-art movie camera acquired only a few days earlier?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapruder_film

  81. @the cleaner

    To sharpen this, probability only applies when inclusion in the class is determined by meeting the criterion. Tomorrow is not tomorrow because of any meteorological criterion. Tomorrow is tomorrow because it is the day after today.

  82. @Astuteobservor II

    EVERY “war” since World War II. During World War II, the U.S. military had amassed a huge stockpile of armaments for the invasion of mainland Japan. These armaments were not needed. NONE of them was destroyed. Half of them were sent to Korea and the other half were sent to Vietnam. “They” already had the next two wars planned and those armaments ended up being used AGAINST American troops! Thanks to L. Fletcher Prouty for making this known…

  83. six weeks later the government invades Iraq, pays its Israeli informant who told them that some guy in
    Afghanistan is resting peacefully, while Saddam “he who sins” is busy stealing wagons from 6 year old children and loading the stolen wagons with weapons of mass destruction which use lollipops for fuses.

    The neat part of the story..

  84. Notsofast says:
    @Patrick McNally

    the reason there isn’t any “real evidence” is that it was illegally removed from the crime scene sent to a junk yard in new jersey, cut into tiny pieces and sent on a freighter to china when scrap was at a 25 year low and it probably cost more to ship than value of the steel.

    https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/high-temperature-thermitic-reactions

    • Replies: @Iris
  85. @Anon

    There are going to be a LOT of policemen, lawyers, judges, politicians, rich people and clergy persons who are going to be in for a rude awakening on Judgment Day!

  86. @Patrick McNally

    Hey, ditzforbrains. Don’t you keep up with current events? It’s not the “Democratic” Party. The Democrat party is far closer to veracity. There’s nothing remotely democratic about that party, just like most official Republicans could not accurately define the meaning of the word “Republic”.

    Any Democrat party apparatchik, who knows what’s going on in the gang is full well aware that the party faithful loyally take their orders from the DNC (Democrat National Committee) and diligently follow that ukase agenda. The USSR also had a Central Committee. It amazes me how closely the U\$\$A closely adheres to the original Bolshevik model…particularly the Democrats.

    Now as for the Repubs, there’s a split-ticket involved here. You see, that “Orange” guy was responsible for some naughty no-no’s while squatting in the Oval Orfice. He not only capped on the Hillarious One’s “fake news”, but took it waaaaay off into the carefully interred realms from the field of on-line prognosticators all the way into pasting it all over corporate mind-control mass media. That resonated with a huge number of Americans who had long realized they were being constantly lied-to by those Talmudist controlled, Bernaysian propaganda propagators.

    If mouthing off about the genuine fake noose, then the con-man who sometimes could not help himself from blurting out the truth, happened to go against the grain by attempting to—as the alleged Commander in Chief—withdraw American troops from Syria, Iraq and even Afghanistan.

    The Brown-nosed four-stars in the Pentagram soon put the kibosh on that one. They quietly showed the man spilling the beans, that one of this ruptured republic’s sacred-cows just happens to be the interests of the primary owners of the WarDefense Industry (aka the “Military-Industrial Complex”).

    In Newspeak and also in Newsweek, “Defense” is the biggest moneymaker of all: London Bank\$ters in the lead with Di\$trict of Corruption “lawmakers” closely tailing their bosses and with the mass-mindfuck media covering the turds deposited by the first pair of grifter capos.

    So now the Repubs are thoroughly bifurcated. On one side is the RNC gang, still mourning the likes of John McCain, the Hanoi-Hilton traitor; calling for more weapons for Ukraine (by the likes of closeted Lindsay Graham in the Senate and various other actions which ensure the further rupturing of our Republic.

    Other side is a blend of nationalists, religionists, and catchers-on who went gang-ho for Trump in two election cycles. They correctly call the former group “Rinos” (Republicans in Name Only). Unfortunately their efforts will back the Trumpster once again or that questionable Goobernator from Florida, from whom I would not contemplate buying a slightly used governor.

    Government in the U\$\$A is out of control (by We The People). At the same time it is fully under control by the “Usual \$uspects”. The nation is being managed by the Two-Party Duopoly and those under full operative control of the RNC and the DNC…Very Soviet of U.\$.

  87. @Caruthers

    Obviously there had been intelligence reports since at least the summer that Osama bin Laden was preparing some kind of terror strike. The Mossad forces were tracking these Arabs to try to find out what it was. Whether or not they actually knew all of the details in advance or were just working off of educated guesses is where the issue is here. One conspiratorial view suggests that the Israelis had everything exactly figured out and chose not to tell the CIA. That remains unproven. But even if the 5 Israelis had not known exactly what was planned, it would have been easy to guess as soon as the first plane hit one of the Towers that that had been the intended terror strike.

    • Replies: @Carroll price
  88. @Jimmy1969

    Jimmy deLocke: ’69 model, eh? Explains a bit, like still a bit green, wet behind the ears. “First year University” indicates you are most likely a subject of the vapid and vicious Quean over in the Sceptred Isle. Your date analogies are defunct and spurious.

    That Epstein did not kill himself is probably factual. Investigative reporters proved successfully to my analysis that the sheet he allegedly used could not have been suspended in such manner as to effectuate an actual self-hanging. But you seem to prefer the “Official” tale likely concocted by the same nefarious official agencies who were granted agency to carry out the removal act by such means as chosen by the minions of the Chosen.

    So besmirch Barrett if you will. The agency for that assault would by probability factoring indicate that if you are yourself not of the Tribe, then you just happen to be under operative control of that gang of rat-faces who orchestrate the rat-race.

    • Replies: @Carroll price
  89. @map

    Although iPhones did not exist then, people did take lots of film clippings of the event. Just look up some of the videos yourself. There are plenty online. Of course, Mossad agents would unquestionably have had access to filming equipment. And so? Are you implying that these Israelis had to have known everything in advance about how the Arab terrorists were going to strike in order to pick up their film equipment right after the first attack occurred? That’s absurd. They undoubtedly were expecting some kind of attack, not necessarily on that specific day or against the WTC necessarily (although there were good reasons to suspect this as a target in light of the 1993 bombing attempt), but somewhere soon. So, once they heard that a plane had been crashed into the Towers, they immediately went to film it. No surprise there.

  90. Iris says:
    @Notsofast

    But what “Patrick” does not know is that there are hundreds of tons of evidence left in the WTC soil waiting to be retrieved.

    When time for Truth comes, all that’ll be required is to drill the WTC ground underneath the 9/11 Memorial Basins to retrieve soil samples.

    What will come out is highly-radioactive fractured rock, emitting radioactive radiation and particles in the frequency spectrum of weapon-grade enriched uranium.

    Radioactive decay last centuries, so the undisputable evidence will remain available for hundreds of years, waiting to be picked up. It will testify how Israel murdered 3000 innocent Americans with nuclear weapons, one of the vilest crimes ever committed in the history of humankind.

    • Replies: @orchardist
  91. @Franklin Ryckaert

    While the Mossad (and the CIA and FBI) undoubtedly did have some level of foreknowledge in the sense that had gathered which showed that a terror strike was planned, that statement about “document the event” is meaningless. They absolutely did not indicate anything in that statement that was different from anyone else who took pictures of the Towers at that time. All that they were admitting to was that they climbed up on top of their van where Maria saw them so that they could document the event. They said nothing about knowing what was going to happen before the attack had occurred (although the Mossad certainly had general information that some kind of attack was in preparation).

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
  92. c matt says:

    Napkin calculation:

    10m policies per year/365 = 27,397 per day 1300/27,397 = 0.047, so 95+% chance it was not a coincidence. Investigate.

  93. Iris says:
    @Patrick McNally

    But that wouldn’t matter if, say, there was real evidence of a controlled demolition bringing the Towers down (there isn’t).

    Always the Hasbara, always the liar: we had this exchange only yesterday on Guyenot’s thread.

    The evidence that WTC7 came down by controlled demolition is now undisputable and unchallengeable.

    Pr Lewis Hulsey, an awmerican professor from the University of Alaska-Fairbanks, conducted a 4-year PhD study on the subject.

    His research team used state-of-the-art structural design software (Abaqus, SAP200, SolidWorks) to simulate all possible failure modes of WTC7. The only failure mode that replicated the actual collapse that happened in reality on 9/11 and was captured on video, was that of a “global failure”, one that involved the near-simultaneous failure of all columns in the building.

    https://ine.uaf.edu/projects/wtc7/

    Global failure can only result of controlled demolition. And if WTC7 underwent controlled demolition, then so did the Twin Towers.

    This scientific proof can only be denied by unhinged Hasbara clowns, which is a litmus test to recognize you all.

  94. Realist says:

    Statistics don’t prove innocence…only probability.

    • Replies: @Jim123
  95. Anon[357] • Disclaimer says:

    “What are the odds” that Unz has resorted to shameless clickbait?

    Srsly just add gaping reaction faces of SssniperWolf and MrBeast looking towards Unz.com.

    MrBeast: “I give people a million dollars if they can spend it in 1 minute”

    SssniperWolf: “Hilarious Tiktoks that are also practical”

    Unzrev: “We give people covid of the mind to see how they react”

  96. c matt says:
    @J

    He has a point to some extent. The concentration of Israeli spies/agents in NY and NJ is probably above the American city average. Only beaten by D.C.

  97. The bottom line is that when you own the news media, you can turn the most obvious crime into a coincidence and obvious coincident into a crime.

  98. c matt says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Chutzpah and unabashed nepotism. They look out for their own, which I don’t necessarily criticize – just wish we had the same level of tribal loyalty.

  99. @Patrick McNally

    Judging by your keen insight and analytical abilities, I can tell you’re a Sherlock Holms on steroids.

  100. @Jimmy1969

    Tel Aviv is quite actively attacking Barret’s article. He hit the right spot I think.

  101. Sparkon says:
    @Patrick McNally

    So, once they heard that a plane had been crashed into the Towers, they immediately went to film it. No surprise there.

    It’s been firmly established that three Israelis were already in position kneeling, not dancing, on top of their van in the parking lot of the Doric apartments, and recording the burning WTC with a video camera by 9:00 am, when Maria first noticed them, so your scenario is DOA.

    By now, it’s also crystal clear that your participation here is not in good faith, and your purpose is to spread disinformation.

    • Agree: Notsofast
    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  102. @emerging majority

    Coincidently, the two guards assigned to watch Epstein’s cell happened to fall asleep at the same time all cameras on his cell block failed simultaneously.

    Same thing, or something similar happened just prior to, and during the Las Vegas mass shooting event.

    Truth and consequences are stranger than fiction every time – depend on it..

  103. @J

    Of the “thousands” who were filming the collapse of the towers, how many were dancing for joy? How many were arrested?

    • Thanks: Iris
    • Troll: JimDandy
  104. JimDandy says:
    @LarryS

    So they can rule over the soon-to-be raceless brownish mongrel peoples of Europe as a sort of aristocracy, Pan-Europa complete!

  105. @Patrick McNally

    You are wasting your time. That Israel was behind 9/11 has already be proved by Christopher Bollyn with his book Solving 9-11. To listen to his audio book, go to: https://bollyn.com/

    For another approach, see: Israel did 9/11, all the proof in the world, here:

    https://bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_911zion_01.htm

    Remember, “goyim” may be gullible, but once awakened they can be fooled no more.
    Tell that to your hasbara boss in Tel Aviv.

    • Agree: A B Coreopsis
  106. @Iris

    Twin Tower SADM

    . . . A Conjecture . . .

    A SADM “Special Atomic Demolition Munition”, is, for all intents and purposes, an A-bomb, albeit, a very specially conceived, designed, constructed, implemented and deployed, A-bomb.

    A SADM large enough to bring down a building the size of the Twin Tower can be made to be physically small enough and light enough that one man can carry it on his back, by himself alone.

    A SADM can be made in the form or configuration of a shaped charge; that is, the force of the detonation can be intelligently directed so that the maximum efficiency can be gained from the use of the force applied with a minimum of waste or other undesirable effects.

    A SADM can be designed and built to have an infinitude of yields, thus, with proper engineering calculations, a SADM can be used that will be JUST enough to bring down the building but not excessive to the task needing to be performed. [see Ted Taylor]

    One shaped charge SADM placed in the center of the basement of the building, directed straight up the vertical axis of the building would create, and send a force vertically up, sufficient to sever the internal steel columns of the building so that the building will implode inwardly upon itself from all directions – as the photos of the event seem to show happened, but would not cause the exterior walls of the building to blow “out”.

    Some small radiation signature might be left in the debris but it can be engineered to be just over background so that it would not present a danger to any beyond a very small radius from the Zero Point.

    While one man can transport the nuclear device to the Zero Point location, a couple others might be needed to help with the placement and alignment of the device in the proper location and attitude, which is very easily doable without drawing any suspicion from others.

    The emplacement of a SADM in the base of a Twin Tower building would be much akin to underground detonations of nuclear devices in vertical shafts, of which there is a rich and well-endowed history and practice by many nations. Ergo, voluminous data and know-how already exists sufficient to carry out THIS task. A small crew of those skilled in the art could make short work of this task and do it with aplomb! Piece o’ cake!

    Because of the nature of the greater orders of magnitude of the forces able to be generated by nuclear physics versus chemical physics, chemical explosives may not have been able to accomplish what a small-yield, easily transportable SADM could.

    A SADM can be triggered by any number of means and methods, so timing the detonation to coincide with some other event is very possible.

    I conjecture, therefore, for these and a myriad of other reasons, that one shaped charge, SADM was used per building, to bring down the two main buildings of the Twin Towers on 9/11.

    One can safely assume that only a nation-state already possessing sophisticated and seasoned nuclear weapons capability and know-how would have the facilities, personnel and expertise to produce the nuclear devices and carry out the emplacement of them in such a highly successful manner as seems to have been the case.

    A thorough perusal of the book The Curve of Binding Energy, John McPhee, will clarify any questions or doubts any may have regarding the plausibility of this conjecture.

    • Thanks: emerging majority
    • Replies: @Iris
  107. @Anon

    > I believe that’s the job of the FBI to monitor domestic spies and security.

    Regardless of that, it’s a fact that the CIA and Mossad were maintaining high level contacts in the summer of 911. It remains a point of speculation to suggest that the Mossad may have known more than they passed on.

    • Replies: @Notsofast
  108. anon[452] • Disclaimer says:
    @Psychotic Break

    Truthful accounts of what? Lavon affairs ? Egyptian attack on USS Liberty ?
    Art students camping outside Fed buildings and offices ?
    Gassing of Syrian ?
    ISIS being tretaed by Israel ?

  109. anarchyst says:

    The title of this article should be “Cohencidence”, not “Coincidence”

  110. Alden says:
    @Sparkon

    Several people who lived in a nearby apartment building. They watched the WTC buildings burning. As everyone did. And those people saw the Israelis dancing jumping hugging each other celebrating. And called police.

  111. @J is for...

    > the dancing/ cheering Israelis who were all set up across the Hudson filming the towers

    There’s evidence at all that they were set up to film the first crash. They set up their filming after the first attack.

  112. @Rev. Spooner

    The lady who reported them said that she saw their van park. There is no evidence that they were set up to film before the attack occurred.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    , @Rev. Spooner
  113. @Psychotic Break

    Psychotic Break, I’m latching onto you as you’re no.2 on the comment list. Think of me as a wasp that latches onto a host to inject it’s eggs that hollows out the host.

    if that doesn’t work, try this link

    There was a ‘Round Table ‘ by Gonzola Lira with today

    Honest to god, if you really need to know what’s up with the world today, you need to watch Gonzalo Lira on youtube.https://youtu.be/cVj9qMblrvs

  114. For those interested, in the Life Insurance example, average person has about a 1/36,,000 chance of dying tomorrow. This is derived from the death rate in USA which is about 0.9% of population per year. We are not given enough data to figure out the actual number of people who will die, but the number is likely to be much lower since life insurance typically covers younger healthier populations.

  115. Thim says:

    A bit off topic but…. There were plenty of people who celebrated. Even the ZOG media reported that there were spontaneous celebrations on many Southern college campuses when news of the Twin Towers going down broke.

    Those stories were very quickly scrubbed, but I can tell you, Southern folks were happy…until we found out soon after that it was all a neocon/Bush/Jewish op.

  116. @Brad Anbro

    You raise an interesting point … as you know the US started both the Korean
    and the Vietnam war by reneging on the promised general elections
    (in Germany it wasn´t quite as obvious but in essence the same);
    they never intended to leave.

  117. Anymike says:
    @emerging majority

    Right about the Peter Principle. The president and the v.p. both exemplify the Peter Principle each in their own special way. In fact, both of them have broken the mold more than once and have risen to their levels of incompetence several times over in their lifetimes.

  118. @Sparkon

    > three Israelis were already in position kneeling, not dancing, on top of their van in the parking lot of the Doric apartments, and recording the burning WTC with a video camera by 9:00 am, when Maria first noticed them

    Not only has that not been established, but it conflicts with Maria’s testimony. She claimed that she saw the van park. It’s right there in the text of her interview. They began filming after parking.

    http://www.thehypertexts.com/Twin%20Towers%209-11%20Five%20Dancing%20Israelis%20Mossad%20Donald%20Trump.htm

    —–
    MARIA: Like a few minutes must have gone on, and all of a sudden down there I see this van park. And I see three guys on top of the van, and I’m trying, you know, to look at the building but what caught my attention, they seemed to be taking a movie.
    —–

    That would be consistent with their lawyer’s story that they first went to the roof of their company building, then drove a few minutes to get a better shot.

    http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/03/WTC/spies10.html

    —–
    On the day of the disaster, three of the five boys went up on the roof of the building where the company office is located … Anyhow, the three left the roof, took an Urban truck, and drove to a parking lot, located about a five-minute drive from the offices. They parked, stood on the roof of the truck to get a better view of the destroyed towers and took photographs. A woman who was in the building above the lot testified that she saw them smiling and exchanging high-fives.
    —–

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @dimples
  119. Excuse me for statingh the obviuos — probabilities are not an exact science and human behavior is predictable on a very narrow line.

    And why conclusions based on probabilities regarding human conduct is sketchy.

    —————————————–

    “There are going to be a LOT of policemen, lawyers, judges, politicians, rich people and clergy persons who are going to be in for a rude awakening on Judgment Day!”

    And we are to for such people, I have to remember that. And accept that one reason, they are in dire shape is because we have allowed thesystem they operate in to operate without accountability.

    expediency over justice, favoritism over admission of error. What is trivial for them is a mountains climb for the average person and yet we have allowed them to create a world of their making in which the very core of who we are as a country is at their mercy or whim.

  120. Although his talk occurred 5 years ago, Professor/Dr. Graeme MacQueen of Canada’s bombshell (pun intended) presentation on 9/11/WTC eyewitnesess accounts remains, – now, over 20 years later – fairly described as “explosive”…

  121. Methinks says:
    @SafeNow

    The example of Umbrella Man seems to me poorly chosen to justify a conspiracy interpretation, because it is quite well documented. Of course, people could object his name was Witt…

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbrella_man_(JFK_assassination)

    • Replies: @Brad Anbro
    , @Olivier1973
  122. Republic says:

    Saw this comment from a 4chan post in 2016

    Richard Gutjahr, the man who filmed the drama is a German gentile married to Mossad asset and Knesset member Einat Wilf, left. Wilf is a member of Ehud Barak’s breakaway HaAtzma’ut or Independence Faction in the 18th Knesset. She served as a lieutenant with the IDF’s ‘Shmoneh Ma’atayim’ or Unit 8-200 in signals intelligence and decryption, holds a BA in Government and Fine Arts from Harvard University an MBA from SEAD in France and a PhD in Political Science from Cambridge University. She was a foreign policy adviser to Vice Prime Minister Shimon Peres. She replaced MK Ophir Pines-Paz as the 13th member of the Labor faction of 2009. MK Wilf has found herself at the center of controversy over Ehud Barak’s recent decision to break from the Labor Party. If Rick and Einat have children, I am assuming their offspring would be raised to be “good Jews”. Richard was obviously “there to document the event”.

  123. Sparkon says:
    @Patrick McNally

    They began filming after parking.

    Yes they did, but you’re desperately trying to ignore Maria’s unambiguous statement to the FBI, which completely refutes your scenario.

    ABC’s John Miller understood Maria to have said or meant “parked,” which is apparent from the context and his remarks, while your scenario is ridiculous: Were they parking the van with 3 guys kneeling up on the roof, or were they dancing already too? I suppose you even know the tune.

    Further refuting your scenario, the Urban Moving Systems van was recorded by EZ-Pass when it entered the Brooklyn-Battery Park tunnel at 7:48 am on 9/11/2001.

    According to the FOIA 6 (p.52), the EZ-Pass recorded the van driving through the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel entrance at 7:48 am.

    https://jesscarswellconspiracy.wordpress.com/2019/05/30/what-time-did-the-dancing-israelis-arrive-at-doric-apartment-towers/

    At this link, author Jess Carswell gives the EZ-Pass data, with some maps and 2019 travel-time estimates.

    The distance from the tunnel entrance to the Doric Towers is said to be not quite 7 miles by one route, meaning the van needed to average just 35 mph for 12 minutes for it to have arrived at the parking lot by 8 am on Sept. 11, 2001, where it was spotted at that time.

    The first WTC attack on 9/11 took place at 8:46 am, and was announced by CNN’s Carol Lin already at 8:48 am, meaning the Israeli photo team must have had certain foreknowledge of the impending attack for them to have been driving toward Weehawken an hour before the first attack happened, giving them ample opportunity to set up and be ready to document the entire event, which they apparently did, taking over 70 still images and a video that has disappeared.

    • Thanks: JWalters
  124. “The United States was occupied for 12 hours with a terrorist incident in Texas, where a British person held hostage a synagogue rabbi and three worshipers for long hours. The terrorist claimed to be the brother of Dr. Afia Siddiqui, and demanded her release in exchange for the release of the hostages. The terrorist was killed in the incident and no one was injured.

    Could the mysterious – next to Mohammed – Gutjahr and the stunningly beautiful Einat have been involved in the above Texas terrorist incident ?

    Don’t misunderstand me. There are a lot of unexplained and unexplainable things about 9/11 and the events that took place before and after it but part of the unexplainables are not Jewish supermen and superwomen getting involved in the Islamic terror attacks inspired by the religion of terror and terrorists.

    Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.” —- Qur’an

    ——–

    Einat for those who do not know her :

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @anon
  125. @Methinks

    With all due respect, I would NOT trust Wikipedia on anything of a controversial nature. That goes for PBS, the BBC and ALL of mainstream media.

    Thank you.

    • Agree: Z-man
  126. Notsofast says:
    @Patrick McNally

    ….. maintaining high levels of contact…..lol…mossad is cia east and cia is mossad west.

  127. JWalters says:
    @Franklin Ryckaert

    Fully agree. The brazen lie is a standard tactic of professional criminals. We have an international mafia run amuck.

    A collection of indisputable facts about 9/11 is at War Profiteers and 9/11
    https://warprofiteerstory.blogspot.com/p/war-profiteers-and-911.html

  128. JWalters says:
    @Sparkon

    Thanks for all these great details.

  129. DaveE says:
    @Carroll price

    a wealthy NY businessman who happens to be Jewish and close friend of Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, with whom he converses daily by phone, just happened to take out a lavish, grossly excessive insurance policy on…

    an eyesore but highly visible symbol of 1970’s ‘Merica (when Shlomo reigned supreme) so several hundred Otha’ Jewish Scumbags infesting the US Gov’t. could launch several wars against Goyim who happened to (rightfully) occupy land lusted for by aforementioned Jewish Filth claiming Satan (Yhwy) gave to THEM alone…….. so aforementioned wars would lead to more wars on/against Goyim occupying land Jewish Demons needed to set up bases for still more wars to further Talmudic demands of G_d’s Chosen Scum for world domination to FINALLY slaughter and/or enslave remaining Goyim to serve (((THEM))) in their World HQ in ZION (formerly known as Palestine)….. leading to The Jew living Happily Ever After as Master of the Universe with 10,000 slaves for every kike… eh… Jew……. serving it’s every vile demand……

    Feel free to correct/add any omissions.

  130. Iris says:
    @orchardist

    I conjecture, therefore, for these and a myriad of other reasons, that one shaped charge, SADM was used per building, to bring down the two main buildings of the Twin Towers on 9/11.

    And you are correct; this statement is beyond conjecture. You have only factually described how underground nuclear explosions are carried out, it is classic nuclear engineering.

    Underground nuclear explosions are experiments carried out to determine the effectiveness, yield, and explosive capability of nuclear weapons. They actually represent the overwhelming part of nuclear testing, in the order of 85%, whilst Hiroshima-style atmospheric nuclear testing is only a very minor fraction.

    Why? Because the ground contains most of the subsequent radioactivity produced by the explosion. Throughout the last decades, this is how nuclear nations tested their weapons, with France, the US and the Soviet Union officially completing 1,471 underground detonations.

    A nuclear weapon is lowered into a pre-drilled borehole, which is then closed with a plug. The weapon is detonated, shattering the rock above and around the detonation chamber.
    However, unlike atmospheric explosion, the fireball, and later the radioactivity, are contained inside the rock layers.

    Each Twin Tower had a borehole under its footprint, dug into the bedrock during their construction phase.
    On 9/11, a nuclear weapon was lowered down into each borehole and detonated.
    The Twin Tower above the explosion chamber simply acted as a continuation of the surrounding bedrock: it was dustified, exactly like rocky soil is dustified when it is the siege of underground nuclear testing.

    It is as simple as that. No new weapon required, no hi-tech weaponry, just good old nuclear engineering experimented with since the 1950’s. Below is a photo of the Sedan test, eerily similar to the Twin Towers disintegrating even before they collapsed.

    Officially, nuclear nations carried 1,471 underground tests.

    Israel did the same at the WTC on 9/11, three times in row, only this time with buildings full of thousands of people on top of the explosion chambers.

    • Replies: @orchardist
    , @Anon
  131. Iris says:
    @Charles Martel France

    but part of the unexplainables are not Jewish supermen and superwomen getting involved in the Islamic terror attacks inspired by the religion of terror and terrorists.

    This is “unexplained” only to Hasbara agents posing as French and using highly symbolic pseudonymic handles to further deceive the readership

    Around year 2015, France fell victim of the most horrible attacks to bloody the country in modern time: Toulouse, Charlie-Hebdo, Bataclan and Nice.

    Independent journalist Maxime Chaix, specialising in intelligence and subversion activities, wrote a book about operation “Timber Sycamore”, the 1-billion dollar secret war carried out against the Syrian government by the US/Israel/NATO coalition, using ISIS as proxies.

    In his book, he reveals why France was targeted by (((Islamic))) terrorism in 2015.
    Due to Russian overt and Chinese covert intervention, the US-led forces were losing the subversion war in Syria, so French President Francois Hollande decided to withdraw France from “Operation Timber Sycamore”. For that, France was punished by the bloodiest terror attacks in her history.

    https://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2019/09/BERG/60357

  132. White cuck-virgin mentality: Black Lives Matter.

    Black buck-chad-mentality: French Fries Matter.

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/08/update-mcdonalds-worker-shot-neck-cold-fries-died/

  133. @Iris

    Good job!

    You possess insights few do . . .

    • Replies: @Iris
  134. Speaking of documenting the event…..

    Former FDNY Chief Recounts 9/11 Attacks 20 Years Later

    So he could read American Airlines on the jet???? What jet really did a jet hitting a tower really exist?

    The background of the Naudet brother’s father is also interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_and_G%C3%A9d%C3%A9on_Naudet

  135. @Patrick McNally

    Why don’t you query Lucky Larry Silverstein how’s the insurance racket working these days.

  136. @Brad Anbro

    During World War II, the U.S. military had amassed a huge stockpile of armaments for the invasion of mainland Japan. These armaments were not needed.
    NONE of them was destroyed. Half of them were sent to Korea and the other half were sent to Vietnam.

    I don’t believe that anywhere near the entirety of U.S surplus armaments from WWII went to these two theatres of operation.
    In the immediate aftermath of WWII (and it appears also the closing stages of WWII itself), the Zionist Meyer Lansky Crime Syndicate was heavily involved in the transfer/theft of a good deal of WWII surplus U.S armaments and equipment to the terrorist Haganah, Irgun and Lehi paramilitary organisations in Palestine and said equipment was crucial in perpetrating the catastrophe otherwise known as the 1948 Nakba which saw the creation of the Apartheid Israeli State.

    Thereafter, we have a certain individual called Lyndon Baines Johnson who would later become the first Jewish President of the U.S.

    As a senator and later as senate majority leader, he presided over more than a few corrupt activities whereby a hell of a lot if U.S army surplus weaponry (and more than a few of said items were brand new and still in their original crates), found its way to the IDF (Israeli Defence Forces).

    More importantly, many such items were sold to the Zio miscreants at cents on the dollar.

    Said weaponry and transport vehicles came in more than handy in the 1967 and 73 conflicts and may have been a decisive factor in the outcome.

    • Replies: @Brad Anbro
  137. @Brad Anbro

    I am pretty sure Japan supplied the Korean war. And if Japan had to supply the US arm forces in the Korean war, what are the chances of surpluses from WW2 making it to the Vietnam war?

    I don’t buy it. You don’t make money from surpluses, you make money from making more, not using the left overs.

    That is where the money is.

    • Replies: @Brad Anbro
  138. Jim123 says:
    @Realist

    The Probability may provide the odds of something, some event.

    Defining the odds of something and proving something are not equal things.

    And defining the odds of something is dependent on the model itself, and any assumptions on which it may rest.

    For example, when the filthy beasts claimed mRNA vaccine 95% effective, circa Nov. 2020, it was known then by anyone at all familiar with VE, vaccine effectiveness, that that claim is chimera.

    Now that the much hidden data actually shows more, many more, die who are vaxxed, v. non-vaxxed: we don’t hear the 95% VE fairy tails as much.

    And after Dr. Birx’ recent mea culpa, . . . .

    As for [[86% chance that COVID-19 “was developed during gain-of-function research AND was released by accident.”]] — this is gibberish on its face.

    When probability of an unknown event [outcome], with a known binary outcome — in this case: zoonotic, directly from animal, versus, non-zoonotic — the odds exactly same as flipping a coin, and either head or tail landing face up.

    That is, if we had zero information, the odds are 50% zoonotic and 50% non-zoonotic.

    There are two odds at play in this example
    1] “was developed during gain-of-function research”
    2] “and was released by accident.”

    Calculation of this probability require multiplying the two probabilities. The result is the probability of chance that COVID-19 “was developed during gain-of-function research AND was released by accident.”

    The odds of 1] “was developed during gain-of-function research” can be gleaned by the fact odds of a zoonotic virus passing to humans and then magically becoming infectious via human to human transmission are exceedingly rare, practically zero, therefore
    1] = 100%, or 1

    2] “and was released by accident” remains unknown.

    The UNZ theory says it was released on purpose by US government agents, likely with connivance of likes of Pompeo/Bolton, et al.

    USMC Major Murphy does not say either way, only confirming it escaped Aug. 2019, [in the form of an aerosolized Bat Vaccine] and the GOF experiment was not halted until April 2020.

    If UNZ is correct, then probability of “and was released by accident” = 0

    This would render the heretofore [86% chance that COVID-19 “was developed during gain-of-function research and was released by accident”], if UNZ is correct, to instead read:

    0% chance that COVID-19 “was developed during gain-of-function research AND was released by accident.”

    Zero, because multiplying the two probabilities, 1 X 0 = zero.

    Thus, this possible charlatan’s apparent claim of “86%” is way way way way off the mark.

    One way to get to this “86%” is as follows:

    100% probability gain of function research and 86% probability released by accident.

    1 X 0.86 = 0.86 or 86%.

    At minimum, there is 92.74% chance of both GOF and “released by accident”.

    0.9273618. . . X 0.9273618… = 0.86 or 86%. And so this is what the [86% chance that COVID-19 “was developed during gain-of-function research and was released by accident”] statement translates to in mathematics.
    -30-

  139. Anon[203] • Disclaimer says:

    Mossad’s execution of 9-11 should have been a wake up call.
    You guys subscribed to the phony WMD and coyote planes dissapearing into the babylonian twin towers whilst your intuition should have kicked in and told you something is not right.
    9-11 should have been the litmus test for truth but you conveniently ignored it. You looked the other way due to cognitive dissonance.
    You followed Bush’s order to go on a spending spree with more credit card debt jacked up with high interest to feed the satanic cabal instead.
    With all these bogus wars on terror and non-ending hoaxes you have unwittingly supported the Zionist Satanic push for one world disorder.
    At this point, all you can do is repent for your sins and start fighting back the criminal enterprize who are in charge of orchestrating all these bogus war on terror, creating these monstrous, diabolical, sinister ISISraHELL with the help of al-CIA-da and MOSSAD.
    Alternate would be to sit back and enjoy bigger fireworks than 9-11 coming near you whilst they prepare greater IzraHELL for the coming of their Yahweh, The Anti-Christ dajjal who will globalize his reign of terror from Jerusalem.
    Either way buckle up for a roller coaster ride with some of these demonic, totally psychopathic, diabolical, sinister, pathological liars and corrupters of mother earth. You reap what you sow.

    There is a lie. Then there is a BIG LIE. Then there is 911. Santa Claus is beyond a LIE. Tel LIE vised 911 EvangeLIED are being taken for a ride by way of Deception to think Jesus Christ died for their Evils. Everyone shall have to account for deeds, either good or evil to enter Paradise or eternal abode in Hell fire.

    The infuriating thing about 9/11 and the multitude of lesser false flags which both preceded and followed it is that, although most Americans know it was as phoney as a three and a half dollar fed reserve note, everyone seems content to put up with the extremely phoney “war on terror” it was designed to create and which has already destroyed a hand full of countries in the world, caused the murder of upwards of two million people, mostly using U.S. military, and turned the U.S. into a ruthlessly insane police state wherein everyone is made to obey patently unlawful statutes in the name of “emergency” while the ruling elite has quit obeying any laws at all while gathering a massive military presence to cow the now restless and resentful public. – See more at:Christopher Bollyn: The Man Who Solved 9/11
    https://www.brighteon.com/8fa2f361-8068-4ef0-8762-487a6d4255c5

  140. Anon[203] • Disclaimer says:
    @Iris

    20 Years of 9/11″-from Nuclear Crime to world domination An interview with Heinz Pommer

    https://www.brighteon.com/8fa2f361-8068-4ef0-8762-487a6d4255c5

    • Thanks: JWalters
  141. What a world

  142. JimDandy says:
    @Patrick McNally

    But, first off, before we even get into all that, we can agree that those boys were over-fucking-joyed at the fact that America had been attacked, and Americans were burning alive, and jumping to their deaths, and so on. It was those boys’ ultimate wet dream to see their greatest ally suffer in unfathomable ways. I’m glad we are in total agreement on that. It’s an excellent place to start the conversation. Thx!

  143. @Justvisiting

    Well said, sir.

    First, the discussions being conducted here are academic, and, as such, need no justification or raison d’être.

    That said, if one wanted a reason to have these discussions, you amply provided one.

    Thank you.

    L

  144. EdwardM says:
    @ADeceptive Pseudonym

    Or maybe Griner is a thug who uses hashish oil and didn’t think much of traveling with it because she’s not too bright and/or rarely has faced accountability for her actions.

    This doesn’t exonerate the Russian legal system or mean they won’t milk the great opportunity they’ve been gifted, but it seems likely that her own actions put herself in that position.

    • Agree: InnerCynic
  145. dimples says:
    @Sparkon

    While it is possible that the shlomos drove from their residences in Brooklyn straight to the Doric apartment block in time to be seen by approx 8.00am, their story is that they drove the vehicle from Brooklyn to their place of work at Weehawken NJ. So this EZ pass timestamp does not mean much without further evidence as to their whereabouts.

  146. @Sparkon

    As your obvious role model, Adolph Hitler, advised, when telling a lie, tell a Big Lie. That’s a whopper.

  147. dimples says:
    @Patrick McNally

    The word ‘park’ in the context of the interview could mean ‘parked’.

    But there is no need to speculate. Maria was interviewed several times by the FBI. Here is her statement taken on 9/17/2001 in which she clearly states the van was already parked:

    ” [REDACTED] was in the kitchen of her apartment shortly before 9.00am on 09/11/2001. She received a telephone call from [REDACTED] a friend who live in apartment [REDACTED] in the building. [REDACTED] told [REDACTED] that there was smoke coming from the World Trade Center (WTC). [REDACTED] looked out her window and saw smoke coming from the towers. [REDACTED] ended the call and [REDACTED] took a pair of binoculars and walked over to the window. When she looked out, she also noticed a white van parked in the parking lot for her building, approximately five or six parking spaces from the south end of the lot, in a direct line between her and the WTC. There were young (sic) three men on top of the van, which was parked at an angle pointing directly at the WTC. ”

    https://archive.org/stream/DancingIsraelisFBIReport/fbi%20report%20section%205_djvu.txt

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  148. dimples says:
    @Sparkon

    Unfortunately there is nothing in the FBI report that connects the van seen at 8.00am with the Dancing Israelis. If there was, then the FBI would have had to conclude that they had foreknowledge, which conclusion of course would have been politically impossible. Any conclusive evidence the FBI may have possessed that the Dancing Israelis had foreknowledge would certainly have been suppressed or disappeared.

    In fact they conveniently include in the report another white van, this one seen at 8.15am. This van appears to have been an electrical contractor’s van. The rear parking lot is the parking lot in question.

    “At approximately 8:15 a.m. on 09/11/2001 . while leaving the above-referenced apartment complex, [REDACTED] observed a white van parking in the rear parking lot of the apartment complex. A male individual appearing to have a brown but not dark complexion, round face, dark hair, approximate age 30′ s, was driving the van. He drove the van very slowly into the rear parking lot, paused, and backed into a parking spot which, from the front, overlooked the New York City skyline. No passengers were visible. Upon returning to the area, at approximately 9:20 a.m. that same day, the interviewee did not see the van. The van was white and had no windows on the sides. It appeared to be a utility van for an electric company because the words ‘electric supplies’, among others, were printed on it. The name of the utility or vendor company, since forgotten, was in red letters on the van. The license tag was not noticed. Usually, utility or service vehicles at the complex building parked in the front. This vehicle was parked in the back which is why it came to the interviewee’s attention. It seemed out of place.”

    https://archive.org/stream/DancingIsraelisFBIReport/fbi%20report%20section%205_djvu.txt

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Sparkon
  149. @Truth Vigilante

    I stated in my post that the no longer needed stockpile of armaments that were to be used during the invasion of mainland JAPAN was no longer needed. The stockpile (meant for use during the invasion of JAPAN) was divided, half going to Korea and the other half going to Vietnam.

    This information was taken from L. Fletcher’s book – “The Secret Team.” As he said in his book, the next two wars were already planned by the “Secret Team” – the group who is still calling the shots and running the United States to this very day.

    Mr. Prouty should know what he was talking about. He served the Chiefs of Staff, had the highest security clearances, flew military brass and intelligence people all over the world and was present at many high-level military and intelligence meetings.

    Thank you.

  150. @Astuteobservor II

    Thank you for the post. You really ought to read L. Fletcher’s book – “The Secret Team” – which is where I got my information. Mr. Prouty spent years flying the military brass and intelligence personnel all over the world. He had the highest security clearances and was present at many of the meetings of the military and intelligence personnel.

    The “money” is in the creation of NEW WARS, which the “Secret Team” already had planned. The money from the stockpile of armaments, half of which went to Korea and the other half going to Vietnam, had already been made. “They” needed NEW WARS to keep their racket going.

    Thank you.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
  151. anon[361] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charles Martel France

    Here comes the moron .

  152. @GMC

    In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way.
    Franklin D. Roosevelt

  153. @Brad Anbro

    People with the highest clearances don’t get to write books. That is my opinion.

  154. @Brad Anbro

    Mr. Prouty should know what he was talking about.

    And I have no doubt that he did write what you stated in his book.

    And … yes, I’m sure Prouty would’ve known where said WWII surplus armaments went – in the same way that, in relation to the Covid Psyop, Anthony Fauci knows that lockdowns and face masks do far more harm than good and that the experimental gene therapies that masquerade as vaccines are part of the depopulation agenda.

    But that doesn’t mean that Fauci will be forthcoming with the truth. Because his controllers would be mightily displeased and there would be severe consequences for Fauci and/or his next of kin.

    Meanwhile, let me pose a particular scenario to you.

    Let’s assume that, in the mid 60’s, Prouty had come out publicly and said that a significant portion of U.S surplus WWII armaments had found their way to the Apartheid Israeli state.

    And, even if he didn’t implicate LBJ directly, merely stating that fact above would have gotten investigative journalists curious and in no time LBJ’s involvement would have been discovered.

    And a certain LBJ just happened to be POTUS at that very time. In other words, Prouty would be dead meat if he came out with the truth.

    Of course LBJ died in 1973 so you might be thinking that anytime thereafter would be safe to come out with a book revealing LBJ’s involvement.

    Well you’d be wrong.

    Bottom Line: Assuming James Files (who claims to have been the ‘grassy knoll shooter’ in the JFK coup d’etat), were to die soon, seeing as all those involved in the actual assassination would then likely be dead, some would assume that the truth about who killed JFK could be revealed without any repercussions.

    But the actual names of the paid assassins who were involved is irrelevant.
    That’s because the ENTITY that ordered the hit is still very much alive.

    I refer of course to the Apartheid Israeli state – because they were the overwhelming beneficiary of said assassination.
    And because the Zionist state still lives, their involvement is NEVER TO BE REVEALED – just as the Zio orchestration of 9/11 False Flag is never to be made known to the bulk of the unthinking masses.
    Similarly, because the Zionist state benefitted from [for the most part illegal] shipments of WWII surplus armaments from the U.S, facts related to this matter will continue to be withheld and anyone forthcoming with that information would be in for a world of hurt.

    In other words, until the day he died Prouty would have known that there are some specifics that cannot be revealed and that there are some (((actors))) involved in said events that can never be mentioned by name.

    • Replies: @Brad Anbro
    , @JWalters
  155. @Astuteobservor II

    People with the highest clearances don’t get to write books. That is my opinion.

    Or at the very least, the contents of said books are thoroughly vetted and/or false info is included that protects the ruling cabal.

    Thanks for your astute observation.

  156. anon[361] • Disclaimer says:
    @Brad Anbro

    “Mr. Prouty should know what he was talking about”

    Lots od scholars are wrting books on Iraq war. Lots already have written .They have impeccable pedigrees , solid experinces from many years in the media,war,adminsitration,economy,history of ME and in in the inetrnational orgnaziations.

    Did you ever see anyone talking about the nefarious deep vile connections of this war to Israel ?Did anyone from the segrgated elite club of schoalrs ever try to connect and present it to the public ?

    Did you ever see any publicly ( vetted by the media or by the think tank or through /by the awarding of any prize like pulitzer ) known pundit write a book or pen an article on the 700 pound gorilla in the room that discusses Syrian war . That 700 pound is AIPAC as noted by NYTimes.

    • Replies: @Iris
  157. anon[361] • Disclaimer says:
    @dimples

    This is the same FBI that tried its best to figure out Anthrax !

    So let me give you this infomration.

    Phillip Jack hated his coscientist – an Egyptian in Fort Derrik for being Arab.

    Jackal ,for stealing or breaching protocol was dismssed from the lab . Still later was seen going at night in the lab.

    Thats before Anthrax attack.

    Now before the victim contracted anthrax and before the media or the citizen knew, this guy Phillip Jack went to FBI and blamed the Egyptian scinetist for sending anthrax .

    What did FBI do to Phillip Jack? Nothing .He was thanked and sent home .

    Check Antiwar.com and google using key word anthrax phillip Jack and justin Raimobdo.
    Baltimore Currant ‘s archives can help you also.

    Add allthose entrapments also

  158. at the very least, the contents of said books are thoroughly vetted and/or false info is included that protects the ruling cabal.

    In many cases that is not even necessary.

    “Intelligence agencies” are highly compartmentalized and even folks with high clearances only know what they need to know which means there is a lot they are missing. In most cases they might not even have a clue what questions to ask–never mind what the answers might be.

    Almost nobody has a “need to know” the big picture….which is what we really want to know.

    That compartmentalization also leads to bad decision-making since it cripples the communication necessary to fully understand issues, options and best tactics in any situation.

    I would be considered by most folks to be a hard core “conspiracy theorist” but I am also convinced that many events that we discuss involve hilarious stupidity and errors–often due to compartmentalization.

    • Replies: @orchardist
  159. @Astuteobservor II

    Mr. Prouty not only wrote two books. There are videos on YouTube in which he backs up (on camera) what was in his books.

    • Agree: JWalters
  160. @Justvisiting

    ” the big picture….which is what we really want to know.”

    The big picture is the easiest of all to know:

    Biology tells us there are evil people for whom “the world is not enough”; they want it all – and they will do anything to get it.

    That’s it!

    The Big Picture.

    • Agree: InnerCynic
  161. Iris says:
    @anon

    Did you ever see anyone talking about the nefarious deep vile connections of this war to Israel ?

    Actually, there is one, just one book on the subject, but it is well worth reading.

    It is by American Gary Volger, a former military and oil expert who spent over 6 years working in the Iraq oil sector after the 2003 war:

    Oil for Israel: The Truth about the Iraq War, 15 Years Later

    The oil agenda I discovered and experienced was to supply Iraq oil to Israel. The players were the neoconservatives in the Bush Administration, their favorite Iraqi – Dr Ahmed Chalabi and the Israeli government. One of the motives was because Israel was paying a huge premium for its oil imports and this premium had just started in the late1990s. The agenda called for the reopening of the old Kirkuk to Haifa pipeline and its significant expansion. When this pipeline plan became unattainable in the 2nd half of 2003 then Chalabi took other actions to get inexpensive Iraqi oil to Israel.

    https://israelpalestinenews.org/oil-for-israel-the-truth-about-the-iraq-war-15-years-later/

    • Thanks: JWalters
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  162. Anonymous[241] • Disclaimer says:
    @Iris

    That’s patently wrong assessment .
    Iraq war was to weaken Iraq enough so that it couldn’t be a threat to the Israeli monopoly of assault and Israeli monopoly over aggression and settlement .
    A weakened Iraq would agree all those little petty things also like oil pipeline from A to B and agree to be faithful followers of the neoliberal agenda .
    A weakened Iraq would have allowed Kurdistan – a safe launching pad for Israel against Iran .

    Iraq got weakened and destroyed but that did not really deliver all the bullet points Isabel wanted .
    Next recourse was increasing mayhem and keeping it boiling .

    Just like various terror outfits aren’t monolith so is Israel . But -Is it Good for Israel – still the first thing they check in before getting any business .

    Check the little article by
    Fey

    Kissinger Connection
    in Taki’s Magazine.

    Paul Brmmer 2 months in the invasion , was already making sure that Iraq disintegrated.
    He is part of the tribe and the circle that includes Henry Kissinger , Sharon , Wolfowitz and Feith .

    • Replies: @Iris
  163. Iris says:
    @orchardist

    Thanks for your kind words.

    Everybody should pay interest to underground nuclear testing, because this is exactly how the Twin Towers, each representing over half a million tons of sturdy structural steel and concrete, were reduced into powder.

    In this documentary about the 1971 Amchitka Island, Alaska, nuclear test, one can see that there is no fireball, and no dramatic sound either. The commenter proudly boasts at 4:00:

    “As was predicted, all of the radioactive material from the test was contained under ground. No radioactivity resulting from the test has been detected or is expected, at the surface or in the sea. Surveillance will continue for a number of years”.

    This statement is not entirely true: a tiny fraction of radioactive particles always find a way through the cracks in the underground rock and end up to the surface.

    At the WTC, of course, the authorities lied about what was brewing under the rubble and under the Towers’ footprint. First responders went unprotected, which resulted in 10,000+ 9/11 radiation-induced cancer cases, out of which 3,000 affected individuals have already died.

    https://www.cancercenter.com/community/blog/2020/09/9-11-cancer

    To contain the radiations, the Tower footprints were concreted over and topped with water basins. Water is the media most used to shield against radioactivity and water basins are a mandatory feature of all industrial nuclear reactors.

  164. @Sparkon

    > ABC’s John Miller understood Maria to have said or meant “parked,” which is apparent from the context and his remarks,

    That’s not how they made the transcript. In fact, there are 2 distinct points where first “park” and then “parked” are used in describing an unfolding of events:

    —–
    MARIA: Like a few minutes must have gone on, and all of a sudden down there I see this van park. And I see three guys on top of the van, and I’m trying, you know, to look at the building but what caught my attention, they seemed to be taking a movie.

    MILLER: (VO) Maria says the three young men were kneeling on the roof of a white van. It was parked right here. They were taking pictures of each other with the World Trade Center burning in the background.
    —–

    Maria’s description reads like something in a sequence. First, she sees “this van park.” Then she sees “three guys on top of the van.” There’s no reason to think that they had to be on top of the van when it parked. When Miller states “It was parked right here” he isn’t contradicted her statement that “I see this van park.” He is simply taking events from the time when they had already begun “taking a movie.” You seem to be making a presumption that Marua simply misspoke and meant “van parked” instead of “van park.” Since there’s no way to interview her once more, I’ll have to leave that open. But it’s not an argument has to depend upon such an assumption.

    I don’t know what you really by the other link. On that site, the author argues that “they were almost definitely not there at 8:00 am.” Maybe. Personally, I don’t see any reason to presume that the white van which was allegedly spotted at 8 AM was theirs. Of course, it may have been. I can’t rule that out either. But the specific account which references the 8 AM says nothing about seeing anyone getting out of the van with cameras or any other relevant identifiers. It simply mentions that at 8 AM someone saw “the a white van.”

    From the way that is phrased there seems to be a little uncertainty over whether or not it was the same white van. White vans are obviously common enough that it has to be allowed that this may have been just a coincidence of 2 different white vans being noticed. The 8 AM, in the versions which I’ve read, doesn’t seem to say anything about Urban Moving Systems. Just “the a white van.” Of course, it’s plausible that this may have been the same van. Did they stay there in one spot. or drive off and then come back? Nothing in these witness reports seems specific enough to determine this.

  165. Iris says:
    @Anonymous

    I think this is you, the commenter calling themselves the Wizzard of Oz, writing again under a not-so anonymous (((anonymous))) handle. Your Hasbara head is buried in the sand but your wrinkled proverbial is exposed.

    What annoys me even more than your sycophantic immeasurable adoration for apartheid Israel is your taking the readership for a ride.

    I respect everybody and never use anything except the same pseudonymic handle. Please raise your standards.

    • Thanks: JWalters
  166. Sparkon says:
    @dimples

    Unfortunately there is nothing in the FBI report that connects the van seen at 8.00am with the Dancing Israelis….politically impossible…Any conclusive evidence the FBI may have possessed that the Dancing Israelis had foreknowledge would certainly have been suppressed or disappeared.

    Yes, I’m afraid you’re right.

    However, we are still free to pick over what remains of the FBI’s reports, and make of it what we can, especially considering the “wide array of discrepancies” noted by the FBI in key aspects of the High Fiver’s statements and polygraph results concerning both the missing video camera, and their own whereabouts immediately prior to the first WTC attack.

    The white van business is muddled enough that, AFAIK, it’s proved impossible to pin down with certainty the location of the Urban Moving System van between 7:48 am when entered the B-BP tunnel, and about 9:00 am when it was first noticed by Maria.

    The FBI attempted to correlate the time/location of a helicopter, reportedly captured in one of the Israeli photographer’s earliest still images, with the presence of the Israelis in the Doric parking lot.

    Although the results of this analysis verified that the Israelis
    were at the parking lot observation point between 8 : 50- am and
    9:03 am, it did not provide a precise time.

    [your link]

    Looking at geography, the Urban Moving Systems office at 312 Pavonia in Jersey City was about 1.72 miles straight line distance generally south of the Doric Towers, which means the UMS Jersey City office was actually one mile closer to the WTC than is the Doric parking lot.

    It was just two miles from the UMS office to the WTC, but there was no view of WTC 1’s north face from that location.

    Certainly, with moderate traffic, and depending on the number of traffic lights, the approx. 2.5 mile drive from the UMS Jersey City office to the Doric Towers parking lot might have required as little as 5-10 minutes, most of it probably on Palisade Ave. Judging by the map, that route requires backtracking three blocks south on Monmouth from the UMS office on Pavonia to get to 7th St., then to Newark Ave. to get around Interstate 78 and onto Palisade Ave.

    Apparently, the Doric parking lot in Weehawken offers a relatively unobstructed view of the WTC, including both the north and west faces of WTC 1, which was almost exactly 3 miles SSE from what I take to be the rear parking lot of the Doric Towers, which actually now all looks to be a parking deck in 2022 Google maps, so perhaps the parking lot has been modified since 2001.

    But here’s a key question:

    Is it plausible that the Dancing Israelis promptly heard the first CNN report at 8:48, whereupon all of them in unison immediately dropped what they were doing at work, grabbed their cameras, ran outside, hopped back into their van, and for reasons known only to themselves, sped on over to the Doric Towers rear parking lot, hopped out, climbed up onto the top of the van, kneeled down, and started photographing and video taping, while exchanging high-fives, by the time they were noticed by Maria at around 9:00 am?

    That’s a whole lot of shaking going on in just 12 minutes. Could the Kneeling Israeli Photographers really have moved that fast?

    So far, I’ve seen nothing to rule out the possibility that the Israeli photographers from Urban Moving System were in position to document the entire event.

    After all, one of the Israelis acknowledged later on Israeli TV that they were there “to document the event,” so it’s hardly extreme or even anti-semitic to think they were in position to record all the action from the time it began.

    • Replies: @dimples
  167. @dimples

    Unfortunately, that is a secondary summary which does not contain any actual quote from Maria. I had listed the link to a transcript in which Maria’s own words are given (though perhaps she did mispronounce something, as you suggest). A secondary summary report can often blur things over. Obviously, it is not incorrect to say that Maria saw the van parked. Eventually they did park, so she saw the van parked. The technicality here is over whether, as appears in her first-person interview, she also saw the “park” in addition to then seeing it “parked.” That is not something that I would depend on a secondary summary for. If Maria was a well-known public figure, then it might be a simple matter to just conduct a 2nd interview and ask “OK, when you said ‘park’ did you really mean ‘parked’?” But as it is, there doesn’t seem to be any way of doing that.

    • Replies: @dimples
  168. @Sparkon

    On the other hand, over the next few days, I did see some video clips of dancing Palestinians celebrating the reported terror attacks. BAD PALESTINIANS! They support murder and terror!

    Well… at least that is what the news reports said. Turns out the video clips were actually taken months or even years before, and were of Palestinians dancing in the streets and giving out candy and cakes as part of a religious festival. Must be one more of those coincidences! Some one just coincidentally pulled up some old videos which just coincidentally were of Palestinians, who just happened to be coincidentally dancing, and then those videos were just coincidentally confused with recent videos, and the religious motivation was just coincidentally conflated with political motivation, and then in one final mad explosion of coincidence, the video was just coincidentally aired on prime time TV, coincidentally without being vetted for accuracy. And coincidentally aired multiple times, even after complaints that it was inaccurate. Of course, coincidences happen, huh? No chance it was mere propaganda, not when coincidence explains it so thoroughly.

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @Sparkon
  169. @Methinks

    LOL.

    At the moment the limousine came in front of the umbrella man JFK was in no way able to see that made-up sign. The explanation does not stand, except for very gullible people. Why moving the umbrella up and down, if not telling the driver that the “job” was not done for sure and that he had to stop the limo, which happened quite a few seconds later?

    • Replies: @Iris
  170. Iris says:
    @Olivier1973

    IMHO, I would not “LOL” a symbolic explanation of Umbrella Man’s gesture, a la Chamberlain, as a last vengeful provocation towards a dying JFK. We are talking about wholly evil psychopaths, with a very high idea of their historical importance, so everything is possible.

    But since I am not very spiritual, my views are more similar to yours and tend towards the practical. It is the Cuban “dark-complected man” who ordered JFK limousine’s driver to stop, by raising his arm and making a standard military gesture.

    At about the same time, Umbrella Man behind him opened his awkward umbrella. I think that both having ascertained that JFK had not been shot at the head, the first ordered the driver to stop, while Umbrella Man signalled to the snipers posted at the Grassy Knoll to fire.

    That was of course the worst, plan B option for the perpetrators. JFK was supposed to have already receive a headshot from the back, so his murder could be pinned on Oswald, but it had not happened yet by then.

    These people certainly had radios, but old times radios were not practical. Too noisy, and required handling. An umbrella sign to fire from the front was far more efficient. Those are my two cents. What do you think?

    • Replies: @Olivier1973
  171. JWalters says:
    @Brad Anbro

    I agree. Prouty was an Air Force cargo pilot and was on an island in the middle of the Pacific at the end of WWII when he was told that the military supplies stockpiled there would not be shipped back to the States, but would be going to Asia. Prouty also flew VIPs, and was eventually the military’s contact person for the CIA to request military materials and men for their covert operations. So he knew a lot about what the CIA was doing.

    Lansky and the US Jewish mob were involved in smuggling arms to Israel. I would surmise that those weapons came from the continental US, not from the mid-Pacific.

    I agree on your recommendation to read or listen to Prouty’s material.

  172. JWalters says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    Generally so, but there are exceptions.

  173. JWalters says:
    @Truth Vigilante

    I agree about Israel.

    And Meyer Lansky was probably not smuggling weapons to Palestine from the stockpiles in the middle of the Pacific ocean. More likely from stockpiles in the US or Europe.

    The Zionists do not plan only one war at a time.

    • Thanks: Truth Vigilante
  174. dimples says:
    @Patrick McNally

    It might be good to read the original FBI interview statements as well, including the interview statement for the witness who observed a white van at approx 8.00am. But alas apparently these are not forthcoming for some reason.

    • Replies: @dimples
  175. dimples says:
    @Sparkon

    “That’s a whole lot of shaking going on in just 12 minutes. Could the Kneeling Israeli Photographers really have moved that fast?
    So far, I’ve seen nothing to rule out the possibility that the Israeli photographers from Urban Moving System were in position to document the entire event.”

    I agree totally for the reasons you provide, except the address of their workplace is given as 3 West 18th St Weehawken. The 312 Pavonia address is apparently the registered address of the van only.

    There is a corroborating witness, a female employee of UMS, who states that she was in the office after clocking in at 8.58am, who observed them looking up the internet etc in the office after clocking in. Clearly she is bullshitting, since they were probably already at, or on the way to, the Doric Towers by that time. However, for some strange reason the FBI did not re-interview her about the time discrepancy.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    , @Sparkon
  176. Sparkon says:
    @The True Nolan

    Yes, please see my recent comment on this issue, where I wrote:

    Toward the end of the ABC report, mention is made of an Associated Press TV News video that did air on 9/11, showing dozens of young Palestinian boys cheering and handing out sweets in East Jerusalem. I recall reading later that this is what they do to celebrate birthdays in that part of the world, but of course, that’s just hearsay.

    https://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/the-all-american-lie-factory/#comment-5463985

  177. @Brad Anbro

    Brad, I will always respond to what you have to say if I think I can add anything to the discourse.
    You’ve demonstrated that you’re a sincere individual and I look forward to absorbing your insights.

    In relation to Fletcher Prouty, whilst I’ve never read any of his books, I’ve seen more than a few videos and read numerous articles featuring his input. Importantly also, I’ve read the words of other reliable individuals that vouched for Prouty’s integrity.

    So, as far USG high ranking military operatives go, Prouty was certainly one of the better ones.
    That said, he no doubt had children and grandchildren who he wanted to protect and that’s why, in relation to the JFK coup d’etat, he stays focused on only blaming the U.S intelligence and military community for orchestrating said hit.
    He is always careful to NEVER mention the Israeli angle in the JFK incident.

    • Replies: @The Old Philosopher
  178. Stones says:
    @the cleaner

    This is a good example of the misuse of mathematics. Probability makes statements about classes of events, not particular events. For example, when the weatherman says that there is a fifty percent chance of rain tomorrow, he is talking nonsense. He is putting tomorrow into a class of days without any criterion. If it does rain tomorrow then, clearly, all days that it did not rain don’t belong in that class. The sneaky step is in the definition of the class.Whatever he used to define the criterion was inadequate. He might better have said, “given my knowledge, I have no clue.”

    BS. Some people should not be be allowed access to jargon. In between the Rabbi’s feverish winnings of arguments with God, they make statements like this.

    Implicit in the weatherman’s statement that it is “50% likely to rain tomorrow” is a set of passed days with similar weather configurations by which a probability of future rain may be rendered.

  179. Anon[221] • Disclaimer says:

    I posted a link to your article at the Times of Israel and here is what a reader responded:

    [email protected]> wrote:
    Fuck you and your christ, may your church burn with all your family inside. I hope you all suffer from today until you die.

    Fakestine is trash, the Arabs are rats, they deserve to die, bunch of useless motherfuckers they are.

    The State of Israel will remain, the Jews will prevail, the jihadis by other way will fall as flies in haste.

    I curse you and all your relatives, may your descendancy be full of frail and sick child. Now one more time goy, remember you’re nothing but a slave… so get the fuck out of here, ok?

    From your non-friend truly, Yitzakh the Mizrahi, that which killed 13 jiharats in his military career, my only sadness in life? That I did not killed 13 more and then doubled it.

    • Thanks: Iris
  180. @Truth Vigilante

    Excellent point about what would prompt someone in the know to take the limited hang-out route.

  181. @ADeceptive Pseudonym

    A Man, allegedly, as are many others in WNBA, allegedly

  182. @Iris

    Hello Iris,

    First a question: where is this photo coming from? On the z film, the man with the fist standing is not in front of the u man, but much more on the side.

    Your explanation is quite possible, of course. It means that the two men were working as a team, and I think that it is correct. They sat down close together shortly after. And afaik they were never interrogated in the following days. Also no way to prove that the u man is Witt. Also to hide behind the Stemmons sign is not the best place to transmit a message to someone behing the fence of the grass knoll. Or it is another evidence that the z film was tampered.

    The LOL is imho well deserved for the fabricated umbrella “explanation”. How could JFK think about Chamberlain? Did JFK know that his father supported Chamberlain? Did he know that Chamberlain was carrying an umbrella so often and described as such? Chamberlain is depicted as a “man of peace”. As JFK wanted peace too, that would be a compliment, not a sarcasm. Except for the warmongers.

    First thought seeing a black umbrella by a sunny day: the man is crazy. And if a protest, no reason to keep this secret for 15 years. That does not make sense.

    Further there is the strange declaration of that Witt (my emphasis):

    As I was moving forward I apparently had this umbrella in front of me for some few steps. Whereas other people I understand saw the President shot and his movements; I did not see this because of this thing in front of me, the next thing I saw after I saw the car coming down the street, down the hill to my left, the car was just about at a position like this [indicating] at this angle here. At this time there was the car stopping, the screeching of tires, the jamming on of brakes, motorcycle patrolman right there beside one of the cars. One car ran upon the President’s car and a man jumped off and jumped on the back. These were the scenes that unfolded as I reached the point to where I was seeing things.

    This declaration destroys completely the z film. Taking into account all the circumstancies, it means that Witt is mocking everyone.

    Take care.

    • Replies: @Olivier1973
    , @eah
  183. @Olivier1973

    About the Stemmons sign:

    In the z film, a sequence is missing, and here you have the explanation why some sockets side photos were blackened.

  184. @Patrick McNally

    I remember seeing a TV show where a black detective introduces himself as a O’Sullivan or Murphy and the protagonist asks “Irish, are you?”. Excuse me for doubting your identity.

    • LOL: Iris
  185. JWalters says:
    @emerging majority

    The “brazen lie”, long a staple of con artists, and especially “elite” con artists, is now sailing into the stratosphere of the “ludicrous lie”.

    And so many ludicrous lies, tangled in a web of decrepit deceit, difficult for even the dulcet tones of Jacob “Supremacsit” Sullivan to define or defend.

  186. Sparkon says:
    @dimples

    3 West 18th St Weehawken …

    Yes, I see UMS changed its address from 312 Pavonia Ave. #1, Jersey City, NJ, to 3 18th St., Weehawken, NJ on on 7/26/2000, according to insurance papers.

    The 18th St. address is just 1 km north of the Doric Towers – closer still & probably an easy drive to Doric in 5 minutes or less. Now it appears the former UMS building has been torn down, and that 18th St. location is now occupied by a small complex of condos or apartments.

    The FBI obtained surveillance video from an Exxon gas station around the corner from the 18th St. address, and requested its FAVIAU (forensic audio, video and image analysis unit ) conduct analysis on the video, which apparently captured images of two white vans.

    Enhanced images of the two white vans requested are marked on enclosed color photographs. Date and time of the event on the video tape is 9/11/2001, 8:29:00 to approximately 8:31:00. It should be noted that a [****] was utilized to obtain the video. FAVIAU is requested to provide the analysis as soon as conditions permit.

    https://archive.org/details/DancingIsraelisFBIReport/fbi%20report%20section%205/page/n65/mode/1up?view=theater

    But, maddeningly, that particular analysis has eluded me, is redacted, or hasn’t been released, so I’m left with the tantalizing tidbit that a white van (or two) seems to have passed by the Exxon station around 8:30 am the morning of 9/11, conceivably on its way from the UMS office to the Doric parking lot, but of course there are a lot of white vans in Jersey and everywhere else.

    • Replies: @dimples
  187. Sparkon says:
    @dimples

    There is a corroborating witness, a female employee of UMS, who states that she was in the office after clocking in at 8.58am, who observed them looking up the internet etc

    Yes, and this part is pretty good.

    …Her time card showed she clocked in a 8:58am…[*] estimates she had been in the building for 5 minutes by this time. [*] talks with [*] for a few more minutes and then hears [*] from the dispatch area, exclaim “Oh my god a plane just hit the World Trade Center”. In response [*] says “No way!” [*] and [*] go to the Local dispatch area and they see a still picture on the computer screen of a plane hitting one Tower.

    https://archive.org/details/DancingIsraelisFBIReport/fbi%20report%20section%205/page/n20/mode/1up?view=theater

    Imagine that! Personally, I can’t recall ever seeing anything like that early on 9/11, i.e. a still image of a plane crashing into the WTC; those kinds of images came later, but on 9/11 they did play that original short video clip purported to be UA 175 crashing into WTC 2 over and over and over again. It seems that infamous “nose-out” video appeared on the Nightly News within a few days, with the [Fox?] announcer exclaiming “It went right through it!”

    Sure it did.

    The FBI later found 16 computers and a bunch of external media at Urban’s abandoned Weehawken office, but why UMS needed all those computers, and what was on their hard drives, the floppy and zip discs, CD roms, etc. remains obscure.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
  188. eah says:
    @Olivier1973

    Did JFK know that his father supported Chamberlain? Did he know that Chamberlain was carrying an umbrella so often and described as such?

    I’m sure he did, yes — JFK wrote a book (originally a thesis) about that era titled Why England Slept — anyway, for the related allegation/speculation of why ‘umbrella man’ was there that day it doesn’t really matter whether JFK knew or not.

    • Thanks: Olivier1973
  189. dimples says:
    @dimples

    In fact your scenario is extremely unlikely in my opinion. In the report the FBI takes pains to give the impression that they had tried hard to find any substantial evidence of the schlomos’ foreknowledge, but could not find any.

    Thus, if Maria had actually said in her interview that she saw the van in the process of being parked, then the question of the schlomos’ foreknowledge would have never arisen. Their main witness would have thus excluded it immediately, since if the van was in the process of being parked, it could not in the normal course of events have been there before the first plane was hit. Therefore there would be no need for the FBI try to find any other evidence that the schlomos’ had foreknowledge.

    Therefore, bearing in mind that any conclusion that the schlomos’ had foreknowledge would be politically impossible in any case, the FBI would therefore have taken great pains to ensure that the secondary summary accurately reflected what Maria actually said, ie that the van was in the process of being parked when she first saw it.

    So given the above, I think it is extremely likely that Maria actually said what the secondary summary says she said, ie that the van was already parked when she first saw it.

    • Replies: @Patrick McNally
  190. dimples says:
    @Sparkon

    “At approximately 8:15 a.m. on 09/11/2001 . while leaving the above-referenced apartment complex, [REDACTED] observed a white van parking in the rear parking lot of the apartment complex. A male individual appearing to have a brown but not dark complexion, round face, dark hair, approximate age 30′ s, was driving the van. He drove the van very slowly into the rear parking lot, paused, and backed into a parking spot which, from the front, overlooked the New York City skyline. No passengers were visible. Upon returning to the area, at approximately 9:20 a.m. that same day, the interviewee did not see the van. The van was white and had no windows on the sides. It appeared to be a utility van for an electric company because the words ‘electric supplies’, among others, were printed on it. The name of the utility or vendor company, since forgotten, was in red letters on the van. The license tag was not noticed. Usually, utility or service vehicles at the complex building parked in the front. This vehicle was parked in the back which is why it came to the interviewee’s attention. It seemed out of place.”

    I’m mostly convinced that this eyewitness statement of the second white van, the ‘electrical supplies’ van, is bogus. It’s too perfect to be true. The sighting of the van is highly detailed and most importantly includes a description of the writing on the sides. Since it is thus shown to not be a UMS van, it perfectly debunks the previous witness sighting of the white van at 8.00am and thus gets the schlomos off the hook. The eyewitness even includes a convenient and plausible reason why he took such notice of the van as it seemed suspiciously out of place in the rear car park. If the witness had just seen a white van and could not recollect any other details this would be disastrous as it would just reinforce and not negate the previous witness sighting of the van. In this case the details are vital and, voila, there they are.

    Consider the situation for Mossad. Some of their idiot young proteges have got in a mess which is potentially dynamite. If it can shown that their van was at the Doric Towers site at 8.00am then the whole ‘911 Arabs dunnit’ narrative collapses and the Jews are on the hook. This does not mean I believe Mossad dunnit, but they certainly would have known about it in advance and the young scholmos have got wind of the details on the grapevine. Therefore, in my opinion, if the schlomos were actually there at 8.00am then Mossad would most certainly have to step in and fix it up. It would be straightforward for them to get some 3rd party associate living in the Doric Towers to step forward and give a bogus eyewitness account to the FBI. Problem solved.

    • Replies: @dimples
  191. dimples says:
    @dimples

    Is this 8.15am white van witness the same one that sees the white van ‘as early as 8.00am?

    As described in the report:

    “Another complaint Subsequent investigation by Newark Criminal Division Agents revealed a second eyewitness who reported having observed the a [sic] white van in the same parking lot described by [blank]. This eyewitness, however, observed the van in the parking lot as early as 8:00am on the morning of the explosions at WTC.”

    and also later in the report as:

    “Another complaint received by FBI-NK revealed a second eyewitness who reported having observed a white van in the same parking lot as described by T-1. This eyewitness, however, observed the van in the parking lot as early as 8:00 am on the morning of the explosions at WTC.”

    This doesn’t seem to be the same witness as the report states that a ‘complaint was received’. This seems to indicate that another person apart from Maria rang the Newark Police and complained about schlomos high fiving on top of a van, and that this van had been there from at least 8.00am. If that’s the case it’s not surprising that the FBI doesn’t provide any further information or summary of interview.

  192. Welcome Surprise? Really not! See below:

    No, it is not a welcome surprise. Amnesty International is part of USA’s information/disinformation. It proves again that both USA and Russia are in cahoots. When Russia walked in without firing a shot and captured Crimea, at that time, I said on this forum that both Obama (USA) and Putin (Russia) are in cahoots. People thought that I didn’t know what cahoots meant.

    Today again, I will go ahead and claim that all USA, Russia, KSA and Iran are in cahoots too. This is what I have believed since I spoke about Crimea. People underestimate both Muslims and Christians, especially when they are working together. People think that all USA Politicians, Military Brass and those in powers are traitors and sold out, including Brandon and Trump.

    Mohamed (Shia)

    https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/

    Ukraine: Ukrainian fighting tactics endanger civilians:

    Ukrainian forces have put civilians in harm’s way by establishing bases and operating weapons systems in populated residential areas, including in schools and hospitals, as they repelled the Russian invasion that began in February, Amnesty International said today.

    Such tactics violate international humanitarian law and endanger civilians, as they turn civilian objects into military targets. The ensuing Russian strikes in populated areas have killed civilians and destroyed civilian infrastructure.

  193. Coincidence or Conspiracy: What Are the Odds?

    When I posted that both Islamic History and Islamic Hadiths are dubious, lots of Muslims posters came after me with open knives. It is the fanatic Wahhabis who believe in these dubious History and Hadiths. I even said that the wife who is singing her own songs and claiming that she was six years old when the Prophet (saws) married her is a liar. I gave references from the Holy Quran, that the Holy Quran says, she is a liar and destined for hell.

    There is a one year old video of MBS, in which he is disavowing Wahhabism and also disavowing the Authenticated Hadiths. Basically, agreeing that the Islamic History and Islamic Hadiths, are mostly FAKE and DUBIOUS. There is a renaissance taking place in Islam, and the Ummah is becoming United and One. I am posting the video again, to show how Ummah is becoming United and One.

    Is this Coincidence or Conspiracy? And, What Are the Odds?

    Mohamed (Shia)

  194. Sparkon says:
    @Sparkon

    …they see a still picture on the computer screen of a plane hitting one Tower.

    We used to call revelations like this a “gotcha,” and it really is quite remarkable if not absolutely breathtaking to learn from an FBI report that there was allegedly an image of “a plane hitting One tower” on a computer screen at Urban Moving Systems just a few minutes after the crash was reported.

    The big problem with this statement by the UMS employee, of course, is there was no image, still or video, broadcast on Sept. 11, 2001 of what was said to be AA11 crashing into WTC 1, the North Tower.

    Zip. Zero. Zilch.

    The Naudet video that emerged the following day does show some vaguely airplane-shaped configuration crashing into WTC 1, but it was not broadcast until Sept. 12, 2001.

    So what was the gang at Urban Moving Systems doing with their computers to have displayed an image of a plane crashing into the WTC immediately after it was announced, and before anyone else in the world had a picture like that?

    • Thanks: Iris, Olivier1973
  195. NIST report on the “co-LL-a p s e” of World Trade Center 7 Download this, we may be referring back to IT as time allows……

    https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GOVPUB-C13-4d4c17460292ee57ef313f6491fa8d1e/pdf/GOVPUB-C13-4d4c17460292ee57ef313f6491fa8d1e.pdf

    NIST NCSTAR 1A
    Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster
    Final Report on the Collapse of World Trade Center Building 7

    NIST – National Institute of Standards and Technology U.S. Department of Commerce
    November 2008
    U.S. Department of Commerce Carlos M. Gutierrez, Secretary
    NIST Patrick D. Gallagher, Deputy Director

    • Replies: @ImaBotKnot
  196. @ImaBotKnot

    Building Effects on Cloud Rise from Nuclear Detonations in Urban Terrain
    By: Charles Needham, Applied Research Associates, Inc

    https://www.dtra.mil/Portals/61/Documents/dispatch_v3_i2_web.pdf

  197. @dimples

    Maybe you could argue that once the issue had become publicized that the FBI had some reason to offer assurances that they had cleared these loudmouthed Israelis of any wrongdoing. But that would only come later. The original summary reports that are compiled together in these collections would not have been written by people worrying about the things you’re describing. The language used in a summary for an in-action investigation is going to be quite different from the way that public relations experts may describe the conclusions after everything is done.

  198. @Notsofast

    There wasn’t no insurance policy to wtc7 that we hear of….why’d they bother bringing that one down?

    Oh wait, wasn’t it supposed to be the third airplane hit building?

    So, stay off airplanes and outta tall buildings like the pentascamgone

    • Replies: @Iris
  199. Iris says:
    @Grasshopper Kaplan

    There wasn’t no insurance policy to wtc7 that we hear of….why’d they bother bringing that one down?

    Because, unexpected by the perpetrators, WTC7 sustained unmissable explosion collateral damage after the controlled demolition of the Twin Towers.

    Its internal staircase collapsed, its façade glass cladding was blown out outwards, all signs of explosion aftermath. WTC7 had unanticipatedly become a giant smoking gun and its demolition was hastily decided, using a pre-existing demolition feature.

    • Replies: @j2
  200. j2 says:
    @Iris

    Hi Iris, you have again interesting comments. But I always forget what was your explanation to the question that if the WTC buildings came down by a big underground nuke, then why there are no seismic records that verify them as nuclear explosions. Such underground explosions can be recorded in any part of the world, like a seismic laboratory in Kazakhstan has data from French explosions in Tuamoto, which surely is far from Kazakhstan.
    https://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/res/pi/Monitoring/Arch/BRV_arch_exp.html
    So, I guess there should be many records from many seismic laboratories all over the world and there could not be any mistake as a nuclear explosion has a characteristic waveform. You did explain it to me once, but could you tell again, I have forgotten.

    • Replies: @Iris
  201. Iris says:
    @j2

    Hi J2; It is lovely reading you and I hope all is going well in your part of the world.

    You are correct regarding seismic waves being used to detect underground nuclear detonations. However, it is not an exact science. The magnitudes are forecast with empirical formulas provided in nuclear engineering theory, which can lead to highly varying results, depending on the authors.

    https://books.google.fr/books?id=W1VBAAAAIAAJ

    https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1995SGeo…16..495A/abstract

    For instance, there was a controversy in 2009 when the West claimed that North Korea had performed an underground nuclear test, while a CTBTO British nuclear scientist charged with monitoring North Korea contradicted this claim. He affirmed affirmed that NK had actually carried out a conventional explosion (probably to pretend she had nuclear weapons and scare off her adversaries).

    https://www.ctbto.org/fileadmin/user_upload/pdf/Spectrum/09_2009/Spectrum13_dprk2_p26-29.pdf

    This researcher, called Timothy Hampton, “fell” from the UN Building in Vienna soonly afterwards; his family always claimed that he was pushed.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1224377/British-nuclear-experts-17th-floor-UN-death-plunge-suicide.html

    It is a little digression, but it illustrates that this discipline is not free from expert interpretation, bribes and threats.

    The only seismic report produced on the 9/11 terrorist attack was by Kim & all:
    https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/01EO00330

    It is a very comprehensive work. The values it provides gives a maximum seismic magnitude (ML) of 2.3 for WTC1 collapse and of 2.1 for WTC2 collapse, which is not sufficient and does not reflect the amplitude expected for the 80 kilo tons explosions required to bring down the Twin Towers

    There are several problems with this article though.
    1) It is neither supported nor contradicted by any other seismic study.
    2) It was produced based on data provided by the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University, in Palisades, N.Y. So the data came from a party which has strong subjective, financial and administrative links with New York authorities.
    3) The study’s finding contradict themselves: there is no seismic signal whatsoever recorded for the collapse of WTC7. On the contrary, such seismic signals were allegedly detected for the “planes” crashing into the Towers. Assuming these “planes” existed, this later result defies the principles of Physics: in Mechanics of Materials, such plane impact is modelized by the Tower reacting as a cantilever beam, and oscillating at its natural frequency around a vertical axis. No underground seismic waves are expected.

    So the only 9/11 seismic report in existence does not support the underground nuclear detonation thesis. However, it also bears other major flaws that independently put in question both its validity and its objectivity. Best regards.

    • Replies: @orchardist
    , @j2
  202. @Iris

    Great effort over the years was devoted by many nations to devising means and methods for cloaking, masking, or otherwise hiding the ‘signature’ of an underground nuclear detonation – to lessor or greater degrees of success.

    Some of those methods would surely have been attempted or employed in this application.

    • Thanks: Iris
  203. j2 says:
    @Iris

    Thanks Iris, yes, now I remember this your explanation. However, if the seismic signal had been as strong as coming from a big nuke exploding underground, the signal should have been detectable in laboratories all over the world. Let us agree that the signal might not have a characteristic waveform for some reason or another, but signal intensity could not be masked. It would have to be detectable. This is why I suggested that the nuke could be small, then it would not be detectable far away and the problem would disappear. A small nuke (or even a very large conventional charge) could take out the main core and cause the collapse. I did some calculation and the energy released in the burning stage does not require a big nuclear bomb to create it: combustible material in those huge buildings does suffice to give this energy.

    All the best to you, Iris.

    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @Psychotic Break
    , @Iris
  204. @j2

    combustible material in those huge buildings does suffice to give this energy.

    I say that is bullshit.

    • Replies: @j2
  205. j2 says:
    @Psychotic Break

    “I say that is bullshit.”

    You have my calculation here:

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/353083535_Why_the_Ground_Zero_of_WTC_buildings_stayed_hot_so_long

    I suggest you start using more civilized language, makes a better impression.

    • Replies: @Psychotic Break
  206. profnasty says:
    @Notsofast

    Two Jays.
    1 jay: My business was failing. But there was a fire. I got a nice insurance check.
    2 jay: Mine too. But there was a flood. Nice check.
    1 jay; [whispers] How did you start a flood?

    • LOL: Iris
  207. Iris says:
    @j2

    Hello J2; thanks for your reply.

    A very comprehensive, extremely detailed study of the astronomical heat generated by the WTC after its collapse has been produced by French Physics professor Francois Roby, PhD.

    https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-02004696v3/document

    The WTC elevated (to steel-melting point) and persistent (up to 3 months after the event) temperatures, despite constant extinguishing efforts, is a giant smoking gun, like no other. No such thing has ever been witnessed on any crash site, or fire site. It is yet another Physics phenomenon completely unique to 9/11.
    https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/technical-articles/articles-by-ae911truth/442-witnesses-of-molten-metal-at-ground-zero

    No persistent heat release was recorded at the Pentagon terror attack site neither, which proves that the WTC was attacked and demolished with a unique type of explosive and detonation method.

    In the words of Richard Gage, AIA, from Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth

    Let’s start with temperatures – 1,340˚ F. temperatures, recorded in thermal images of the surface of the World Trade Center rubble pile a week after 9/11 by NASA’s AVIRIS equipment on USGS overflights. Such temperatures cannot be achieved by oxygen-starved hydrocarbon fires.

    Such fires burn at only 600 to 800˚ F. Remember, there was no fire on the top of the pile. The source of this incredible heat was therefore below the surface of the rubble, where it must have been far hotter than 1,340 degrees

    The infrared satellite imagery of the WTC, used to produce the calculation, is governmental information, available in open source.


    https://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001/ofr-01-0405/ofr-01-0405.html

    Heat is released via conduction, radiation and convection (forced or free), which all add up to make up the total amount released. Neglecting all 3 former methods for which there is no reliable data, and considering only free convection, Pr Roby therefore calculated only a low estimate of the thermal energy released over three months, using classic, century-old heat transfer equations.

    Despite being only a low estimate, the result still came up to 10^15 Joules (10 to the power of 15 Joules, or 1 peta Joules).
    Such quantity is in the order of magnitude of the monthly production of a 900 MVA nuclear reactor: it is absolutely stratospheric, and it is only a low estimate….

    At comparable mass, nuclear energy carriers provide around 1,000 times more energy than chemical energy carriers (including conventional explosives such as thermite and nanothermite).

    To generate such astronomical quantity of heat, it would have been required to burn circa 100,000 metric tons of conventional fuel: kerosene, thermite, wood, whatever…. This represents about 1,000 train carriages in volume, a volume impossible to hide in the WTC basements.

    Conversely, the same heat can be obtained by detonating only about 10 metric tons of nuclear fuel, or the volume equivalent to only 1 train carriage.

    So it is undeniable that only nuclear explosives could have produced the persistent and elevated temperatures independently recorded at the WTC after its collapse.

    • Replies: @Psychotic Break
    , @j2
  208. @j2

    Thank you for your paper of calculation. I must say that on this subject I am not particularly bothered about my style of language.

    The towers were not brought down by planes. There is such an overwhelming amount of evidence against planes that we waste our time seeking any explanation there. We all here are in no doubt about that.

    I must agree with Iris that we need suspect, as potentially not impartial, the seismic data provided by the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. We cannot even trust NIST.

    Your claim that presumably office furniture and paperwork might suffice to maintain and sustain the temperatures required to bring down the Towers at free-fall speed is impossible.

    … combustible material in those huge buildings does suffice to give this energy (to) take out the main core and cause the collapse…

    Theoretically, a reasonable amount of burning might generate a certain volume of heat, but burning was for several hours. It was not heat energy of an instantaneous nature such as that produced by explosives, or ‘devices’. And what you propose has not happened anywhere else before or since, and as a cause for concern would need to be factored into building codes.

    The success of the demolition rests on the very fact that in this very special case failure was not an option.

    We can only find an explanation in pre-installed explosive devices with an overwhelming volume of gross redundancy. Remember, that the main central load-bearing structures were very selectively ‘pre-cut’.

    Regular demolitions teams (with +/- huge volumes of thermite, thermate, etc…) could have done all that was necessary.

    Forget about burning paper, carpets or or office fittings; that route only plays into the hands of the criminals.

    • Replies: @j2
  209. @Iris

    I have to agree with you. If no substantial amounts of radiation were measurable in New York, yet with such an outrageous residual heat signature, the most likely explanation is that in addition to whatever else they did re. demolitions, explosives, pre-cutting, etc… we must accept that the criminals likely placed also whatever NEW, UNIQUE military devices they had at hand to make sure things went so ‘perfectly’.

    • Replies: @orchardist
    , @Iris
  210. @Psychotic Break

    A thorough perusal of The Curve of Binding Energy, John McPhee, may be beneficial here.

  211. Iris says:
    @Psychotic Break

    If no substantial amounts of radiation were measurable in New York, yet with such an outrageous residual heat signature,

    You are on the right track; don’t let the radiation aspect faze you. Radiation is mentioned as an objection by people who have no knowledge of how underground nuclear detonations are carried out.

    Nuclear testing is performed underground by design precisely to contain radioactive fallout. Fireball and radiation are mostly contained, while the instantaneous blast is only dampened. It is the blast, the supersonic pressure shockwave, that destroyed and dustified the Twin Towers.

    Underground nuclear testing is not rare, on the contrary, it is overwhelming in this industry: almost 85% of all nuclear testing is done in such fashion, with US, USSR and France alone having so far officially carried out as many as 1,471 underground nuclear tests.

    In this documentary about the 1971 Amchitka Island (Alaska) underground nuclear test, the commenter proudly boasts at 4:00:

    “As was predicted, all of the radioactive material from the test was contained under ground. No radioactivity resulting from the test has been detected or is expected, at the surface or in the sea. Surveillance will continue for a number of years”.

    There is a caveat: a tiny fraction of the radioactive fallout from underground nuclear detonations will always manage to sip through the cracked rock and reach the surface.

    On 9/11, first responders were obviously neither informed of the danger, nor protected. As a result, 9/11 caused over 10,000 radiation-induced cancers, out of which 3000+ affected individuals have already perished. They, too, are direct American victims of the 9/11 WTC nuclear demolition.

    https://www.cancercenter.com/community/blog/2020/09/9-11-cancer

    • Thanks: Psychotic Break
  212. j2 says:
    @Psychotic Break

    You must have only briefly scanned my calculation. We all agree that the official story is false and normal fire does not burn so long. But then you start mixing up things. The energy content in the office material in the buildings is sufficient for producing the amount of Joules that Roby calculated. The trick is only to find a mechanism that would keep all material burning so long and burning so hot as to melt steel. This may be possible if we assume thermite and some structure that would spread heat further, like steal beams that conduct heat inside the rubble.

    The evidence against a large underground nuclear explosion is very strong: there are too many seismic laboratories in the world, they are not under any single control, and they would have recorded a large underground explosion, whether nuclear or conventional. That there are no reports of a seismic signal corresponding to underground explosions means and can only mean that there were no large underground nuclear explosions. This leaves the following cases: there was no underground explosion at all or it was too small to be recorded from a far away place. This argument cannot be refuted, so let us start from that.

    The single seismic record that there is can of course be tampered, but the aspects in the record that Iris mentioned as suspicious are not that suspicious. She mentioned that there is no signal from the fall of WTC7. Should there be? Consider freezing from ice a model of a WTC building and then putting it on the platter of hot stove. This ice model melts from the bottom and the roof goes down just like WTC7. There is no banging of this ice model against the stove (which here is the ground), so there is no seismic signal coming from this event. Next, consider the floor as the ground, so the stove is in the middle way from the roof to the ground, about where the planes are said to have hit. Now the difference is that melted water finally drops to the floor. Assume it does not flow smoothly but in burst. These burst bang the floor, so you get a weak seismic signal. We assume a weak seismic signal from debris falling from WTC1 and 2 buildings. We do not expect any significant seismic signal from the building breaking down, just like we did not get any seismic signal if the ground was on the level of the stove platter. Consider this example carefully and you see that the seismic signal that was recorded can quite well be authentic. But I admit that the record can be tampered and a small underground explosion signal can be removed. But only a small explosion, you cannot remove a large explosion signal. It will spread to all seismic laboratories in the world.

    You are happy for using the world bullshit. Thus, the large underground nuclear explosion theory is bullshit. I would not like to say so to Iris, but to you can say so.

  213. j2 says:
    @Iris

    “A very comprehensive, extremely detailed study of the astronomical heat generated by the WTC after its collapse has been produced by French Physics professor Francois Roby, PhD.”

    I went through his paper and though his calculation of the number of Joules needed is correct, his intuition that this amount of Joules cannot come from burning office material in these buildings is wrong. He does not present his calculation that is should be impossible, and it is not impossible. Consider this: if a seismic signal was not visible in many seismic laboratories in the world, then it is impossible that a large nuke was exploded underground. All these labs could not be controlled.

  214. @j2

    I never once proposed a nuclear explosion in my reply to you.

    You must have only briefly scanned my calculation.

    You stupid pompous arsehole.

  215. @j2

    Ted Taylor, possibly the most prolific nuclear physicist, A-bomb designer and inventor, freely mentioned numerous times with the author, John McPhee, in his book The Curve of Binding Energy, the ease with which the World Trade Center buildings could be brought down with “low-yield” Special Atomic Demolition Munition “Shaped Charges”.

    The book was published in 1973, the same year the World Trade Center opened, and fully 28 years BEFORE the WTC Towers were brought down.

    His comments about bringing down the WTC Towers using Nuclear Devices have thus, been in the public domain, available for anyone to ponder, for roughly 49 years (!): – 28 years BEFORE the Towers came down, and 21 years AFTER they came down.

    And yet some folks are still having trouble getting their heads around that concept?

    Time to wake up folks.

    Read the book. No equations; nothing a 10th-grader can’t understand; Amazon, \$6.00.

    Welcome to the 20th century!!

    • Replies: @Iris
    , @j2
  216. Iris says:
    @orchardist

    Thanks ever so much for telling us about the book; this is precious info I wasn’t aware of.

    Completely agree with your viewpoint: the destruction of the Twin Towers is a classic case of underground nuclear detonation. It was executed using old, obsolete technology which has been abandoned a long time ago. Nothing fancy, nothing high-tech about it.

    As a consequence, it beggars belief that intelligent people cannot understand something so simple and so outdated.

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/russian-defense-ministry-accuses-american-government-of-being-responsible-for-the-emergence-of-covid/#comment-5490366

  217. j2 says:
    @orchardist

    “the World Trade Center buildings could be brought down with “low-yield” Special Atomic Demolition Munition “Shaped Charges”. ”

    Certainly WTC buildings can e brought down with ease with any nuclear explosion, whether low-yield or not. Demolition munition can but does not need to be underground. But the theory of Ruby and Iris is that WTC buildings were brought down with an old-fashioned high-yield nuclear bomb. Such a bomb creates a seismic signal that can be detected in practically any seismic laboratory in any part of the world. It may be possible to shape the waveform so that it is not typical to an underground nuclear explosion (i.e., the rise time is very short), but nevertheless, there is a very strong seismic signal that spreads to the globe and can be detected. As such signals from 9/11 have not been announced and there are many seismic laboratories, most certainly not under any conspiratorial control, it follows that there was no such strong signal. This leaves two possibilities: either there was no underground explosion or it was a so weak explosion that seismic laboratories could not record it. The latter possibility includes as one case a low-yield special atomic demolition munition shaped charges as low-yield means exactly that the explosion is weak. It is fully possible that there was a small nuclear explosion with some old or some new technology.

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