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American Taliban: Is Smashing Historic Heritage a Meritorious Act?
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In March 2001, in the mountains northwest of Kabul, the Taliban blew up two colossal statues of Gautama Buddha. The act was almost universally condemned. But the Taliban’s justification of historic vandalism makes at least as much sense as those offered by today’s American Taliban, who are on a nationwide rampage of statue-destruction.

Here in Madison, Wisconsin, confused protesters just destroyed two statues honoring causes they presumably support. One honored Hans Christian Heg, “a Norwegian immigrant, activist and abolitionist who led an anti-slave catcher militia helping slaves escape before serving as a Colonel for the Union army in the Civil War. He was killed in the Battle of Chickamauga in north Georgia in 1863.” The other was Miss Forward, an American version of the French goddess of liberty Marianne, symbolizing progressive causes in general and women’s rights in particular.

Do the vandals hate anti-slavery martyrs, women’s rights, and progressive causes? Probably not—unless the hooligans were egged on by Pepe-the-Frog worshipping Proud Boys in black masks posing as Antifa…which, come to think of it, would be a prank of monumental proportions. But I’m not sure today’s obscurantist left-wing lunatics need pro-Confederacy infiltrators to trick them into doing stupid things. They seem quite capable of self-directed idiocy.

The current frenzy of iconoclasm pretends to be secular, not religious. But that is a specious distinction. Myths, rituals, contagious emotions, collective behaviors, articles of faith, criteria for in-group out-group distinctions—such are the components of religion, and “secular” people are by and large just as religious as “religious” people. They just don’t realize it until they have taken Religious Studies 101. And even then, they may need a couple of anthropology and social psychology courses before it really sinks in. Once they realize that their secular progressivist worldview is in fact a religion, not just “the way things are,” they face a choice: Double down, retreat into nihilism, or find a better religion. A good guide to this dilemma from a doubled-down secular-progressivist viewpoint is Ernst Gellner’s Postmodernism, Reason, and Religion. Gellner argues that anyone who fully faces the problem will likely either embrace postmodernist nihilism or Islam, but that the correct if least obvious choice is Gellner’s own scientistic spin on secularism.

Be that as it may, I think we can agree that frenzies of iconoclasm are inherently religious. So let’s compare the religious justifications for the Taliban’s destruction of the Buddha statues with the equally religious justification of the American Taliban’s destruction of historic landmarks.

The Taliban based its iconoclasm on Islamic scripture, which considers Abraham the first monotheist, and celebrates his courageous smashing of pagan idols, which nearly led to his execution as a heretic. (Abraham’s would-be executioners did their best to burn him alive, but God bestowed a miracle: The fire became cool and peaceful rather than fatal.) Late in the Prophet Muhammad’s career, after the practically bloodless conquest of pagan Mecca, the Last Prophet repeated Abraham’s act, smashing the idols that had defaced the world’s primordial sanctuary of the one and only God.

Islamic iconoclasm, like Christian and Jewish iconoclasm, must be viewed in the context of monotheism’s struggle with pagan communities whose central rites always involved making sacrifices—ultimately human sacrifices—to their small-g gods. Though some pagan communities gradually substituted animal sacrifices, the anthropological evidence strongly suggests that all pagan sacrifices were originally human sacrifices. During the period of the emergence of monotheism, it was normal, indeed normative and often religiously required, for parents to sacrifice their children by burning them to death inside a statue of a hungry pagan god. The rite survives today at Bohemian Grove, where the official story holds that children are only symbolically sacrificed to Moloch in the cremation-of-care ritual. Whistleblowers and conspiracy theorists, for their part, claim children are raped, abused, and sacrificed at the Grove in activities that make Jeffrey Epstein’s Mossad blackmail schemes look tame and wholesome by comparison.

Likewise, in pagan Mecca, female children were routinely sacrificed by being buried alive. Such killings were condoned by the gods who supposedly inhabited the pagan idols in the Kaaba, and who also received sacrifices there. Pagans believed that killing someone or something in front of a statue somehow nourished the god inside, who would reciprocally bestow worldly wealth, power, and/or pleasure upon the person performing the sacrifice. Today human sacrifice to these gods-with-a-small-g is still practiced, albeit covertly, in West Africa, North Africa, Latin America, and elsewhere, possibly including Bohemian Grove. (While doing Ph.D. research in Morocco I heard credible accounts of satanic sorcerers sacrificing children to deities in order to learn where treasure was buried; colleagues in African Studies said similar sacrifices are even more widespread and universally acknowledged in Ivory Coast and other West African nations; and one of my former University of Wisconsin colleagues, Neil Whitehead, died mysteriously after researching similar practices in Latin America.)

René Girard famously argued that universal monotheism, especially Christianity, tends to end such sacrificial rites by fostering identification with victims. Whether or not you think Girard was on to something—and I definitely do—it’s easy to see why so many monotheists, including Muslims, take a dim view of idolatry in general, and statue-worship in particular.

So the Taliban might explain their destruction of the Buddha statues as follows: “We believe the statue-worshippers of old were evil, benighted practitioners of a peculiar institution and evil custom, namely human sacrifice. Though we realize that most people of this era who revere Buddha statues do not practice human sacrifice, any more than Americans who revere Robert E. Lee statues practice slavery, we think it is important to eliminate remaining vestiges of pro-pagan symbolism. After all, pagan sacrifice continues today in both disguised and undisguised forms all over the world. By allowing idolatrous statues, we tacitly approve of these atrocities.”

Would the Taliban be right? The answer hinges on one’s degree of openness to, and tolerance of, viewpoints other than one’s own. Someone who accepts the Taliban’s condemnation of idolatry, without regard for other people’s perspectives, would agree that the destruction of the Buddha statues made perfect sense. On the other hand, those of us who see the world as an inherently pluralistic place, and who try to honor the Other’s worldview by entertaining it and giving it a chance and only suppressing it forcibly as an absolute last resort, must argue that the loss of historical, cultural, and artistic heritage entailed by the destruction of the Buddha statues outweighed the benefits of suppressing whatever vestigial idolatry still inhered in those colossal graven images.

The above also applies to the destruction of American statues by left-wing rioters. Their secular-progressivist faith, with its Manichean mythos of the Confederacy of Absolute Evil versus the Union of Victorious Good, demands that monuments to pure evil be abolished. Such fundamentalist fervor denies the legitimacy, nay the very existence, of viewpoints other than its own. That some might see the Civil War as primarily about the right of secession rather than slavery simply does not compute to people who unconsciously use their fervent if not hysterical emotions as a Procrustean bed on which reality itself may be stretched into the most self-serving shape. Likewise the idea that a statue can commemorate historical or cultural heritage, and itself constitute artistic heritage, rather than serving as nothing more than a focus of worship or veneration, seems as foreign to the American Taliban as to their Afghan equivalent.

Since 9/11, Americans have been indoctrinated into believing that Muslims tend to be intolerant fundamentalists. But if we compare the global Muslim community’s reaction to the destruction of the Buddha statues to Americans’ reaction to the current rampage by secular-progressivist vandals, Muslims win the tolerance battle hands down. Most Muslims worldwide opposed the Taliban’s act. Indeed, the Grand Sheikh of al-Azhar among other Muslim authorities pronounced against the vandalism, to no avail. Even Mullah Omar wavered, finally deciding to blow up the statues less out of religious fanaticism than as an explosive middle finger to the neo-imperialists who he felt were mistreating his country.

But in today’s America, where secular liberal progressivism is no longer a religion of tolerance, it is hard to find mainstream authorities clamoring for the protection of their own national heritage. Still less are they clamoring for free and fearless speech about these and other matters. We are living in strange times when a US president feels the need to issue an executive order demanding that laws against destroying pubic monuments be enforced, when the only mainstream television personality who agrees is a marginalized outlier, and when a perfectly reasonable article like this can only be published at a shadowbanned alternative website.

 
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  1. Franz says:

    Since 9/11, Americans have been indoctrinated into believing that Muslims tend to be intolerant fundamentalists.

    Refer them to: The Darkening Age: The Christian Destruction of the Classical World.

    When it comes to destroying the past nobody’s better than Christians. Catherine Nixey’s studied their behavior for years; the first four centuries of Jesus was one big orgy of smash & bust their ancestors’ deities, most of whom were innocent of human sacrifice.

  2. Interesting comparison. My quibble is that the War of Secession, War of Northern Aggression, or officially the Civil War was in reality a new Revolutionary War. The Colonies fought to sever ties from its government in London. The Confederacy fought to sever ties with the government in Washington.
    Civil wars are fought over control of the government. As the Confederacy wanted to sever ties with the Government in Washington, not control it, it was in no way, shape, or form a Civil War.

    As Paul Craig Roberts has stated many times, the issue was tariffs, which were in the Federal jurisdiction. States rights and slavery (which were states rights) were the excuse. It was as phony an excuse as taxation without representation. It plays well, but is empty.

    • Agree: Adam Smith
    • Replies: @anon
  3. @Franz

    Thanks for the tip. This looks like an interesting book—and yet more evidence for those of us who argue that historically Muslims have been more tolerant than Christians. (Yes, I know that isn’t saying much.)

  4. anon[427] • Disclaimer says:

    Well if you want a positive outlook on tearing down statues, I say okay, because the statues of Thomas Jefferson and the other Gentleman of our founding don’t make sense in todays context of Obama, BLM, ADL , SPLC, Muslims, a filthy Catholic Synosque and a broken divided populace, we all really do like our own. Also being an owned country by foreign interests in the United Nations. White Christians being forced to recognize all kinds of culture they would normally find offensive, not just forced to accept themselves but teach it to their children and convince their children it is good. So in today’s context those statues don’t make sense. So if the left is allowed to tear them down and build the ones that make sense for today, later, when their utopia of melting San Francisco, New York, Baltimore and Chicago,with China, Israel, Palestine, India and Iraq, South Africa, Nigeria,and the Congo no longer makes sense we can tear their statues down.

  5. anon[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Franz

    I would agree that a smash and bust happened in Europe, what that has to do with muslims is a mystery. Muslims have their own space and should go live in it. Whites have had enough of their own torment for nothing for centuries. When Jesus said “he was hated first”, it is obvious he was white, as no one is more hated than we are. No home, no land, no religion, no people, slaves to everyone.

    • Agree: Gleimhart Mantooso
  6. FB says: • Website

    Well…the Bamiyan statues were unique cultural artifacts 1, 500 years old, and on the UNESCO cultural heritage designation…they are irreplaceable…

    The pedestrian mall statuettes being roughed up now have nothing in common…

    Much ado over nothing…

  7. Talha says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Even Mullah Omar wavered, finally deciding to blow up the statues less out of religious fanaticism than as an explosive middle finger to the neo-imperialists who he felt were mistreating his country.

    Brother Kevin, I can attest to this. The Taliban did it more as a political act (they really were not savvy political actors) and some of them made an ad hoc retroactive religious justification for it. Which seemed fairly silly to most since that territory had been under Muslim control since at least the Umayyad times and nobody had bothered to destroy the statue. I wrote about this in a previous exchange:

    Yeah, they really weren’t that astute at politics to be honest. I really didn’t expect that of them.

    I can actually confirm the story about the reasons why they blew up the statue by first hand knowledge. When I was in college, we were part of a group that hosted one of their young ministers of education who had come to hit up the affluent expatriate Afghan community around LA for funds to repair schools (which were barely working – the brother mentioned how looters stole every light bulb they could get their hands on, and practically everything else).

    Anyway, he was in So Cal for a few days and this event took place while he was here. The Afghan community was furious because it was all over the headlines. He in turn was also very angry (obviously this was going to get in his way of trying to raise funds among secular types – often the mostly wealthy ones – who already only thought about giving due to their ethnic connection to Afghanistan) and got in touch with them to find out what the hell was going on. Their response was basically what the article said; they were very, very pissed off at the aid being allotted by Western countries to things like the statues instead of hungry kids and infrastructure (I think there was also something about funds to the Kabul zoo, but I’m not sure about this one – it was a while back). After that, the visiting minister was still upset, but understood why they made that decision.

    I don’t think they would have made up that story in a conversation to their own minister – possible, but far less likely.

    Anyway, take it for what it’s worth.

    https://www.unz.com/tsaker/deconstructing-islamophobia/?showcomments#comment-3553069

    Wa salaam.

    • Agree: AnonStarter
    • Replies: @Regulo
  8. The shell eventually turns dry and crusty and cracks and crumbles and fades into dust, that is after the organism dies. A snail shell without the living organism within is just nothing.

    Same with civilization. When the soul is dead, the culture is dead, and then the outer manifestations of the culture fall prey to vandals without anyone defending them.

    The current iconoclasm is part of the late-stage symptoms of a people and culture that have undergone the cancer of the soul. White people are either craven, apathetic, self-loathing, treacherous. Or they suffer from amnesia or dementia. White soul has withered, white body is weak, and there is no white will to defend the statues. There is no pride, no fighting spirit, no rage and anger EXCEPT in self-hatred. Antifa whites are full of passion but only because they are filled with self-hate. In contrast, white conservatives and white confederatists are wussy and cucked. In the South, white men don’t dare come out to defend the monuments. Why would they? They lost the soul and the will. Notice that white self-haters are full of passion and righteousness in their self-degradation whereas white conservatives are so defensive and insecure in their, at best, lukewarm defense of Western Civilization. White self-loathing has moral primacy over white pride. Why? Whites believe ‘racism’ is the worst evil, and therefore, white self-loathers who totally denounce every vestige of ‘racism’ have moral advantage over white priders who defend a legacy tainted by ‘racism’. Even when white priders acknowledge and disown bad things done by whites, they still find themselves rationalizing the achievements of past ‘racists’, and that makes them apologists of the Greatest Evil.

    In truth, the key element of any people’s survival must be race-ism. Ism means belief, and race + ism should really mean the belief in the reality of race and the need for racial consciousness. Jews know this, which is why they are adamant about Jewish identity, Jewish interests, and Jewish culture. It is precisely because Jews sought supremacist domination over goyim that they used their control of media and academia to vilify race-ism among whites(even while encouraging it among their own kind). Once whites were fooled into embracing ‘anti-racism’ and rejecting racial consciousness, they were afflicted with the cancer of the soul. Without race-ism, a people are finished. It’s only a matter of time. It could happen fast or slow, but the people are fated to lose out. It is race-ism that makes a people think in terms of their own identity, territory, and history. It is race-ism that makes them work as a group. Once whites lost race-ism, they were no longer a team, a people, a culture. They were just atomized individuals. Or the only permissible white unity was in white self-loathing as ‘evil racists’ who must atone for everything. Notice that even dissident rightists continue to use ‘racism’ as an epithet. That is why they are also useless in the end. They are conforming to the terminology as rigged by Jewish supremacists.

    What is BLM about? It’s about black racial consciousness. What is Jewish Power about? It’s about Jews, Jews, Jews. That’s why they grow in power. They are fervently race-ist.
    But whites don’t think in terms of their own identity and interests. They are no longer race-ist even though they are always blamed for ‘racism’. And so, they are now defenseless as the black thugs and self-loathing white antifa Janissary of Jews tear down white monuments.
    The outer shell is cracking and fall apart because the inner flesh of whiteness died long ago under the mind-control of Jewish supremacists.

    • Agree: Robjil
  9. Slavery did not end because blacks revolted, but because whites revolted. When will BLM fund statues of John Brown? They won’t and I need not explain. Most Americans do not know who he is, so I’ll post a link:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_%28abolitionist%29

    • Replies: @Marshall Lentini
  10. Miro23 says:

    But in today’s America, where secular liberal progressivism is no longer a religion of tolerance, it is hard to find mainstream authorities clamoring for the protection of their own national heritage. Still less are they clamoring for free and fearless speech about these and other matters. We are living in strange times when a US president feels the need to issue an executive order demanding that laws against destroying pubic monuments be enforced, when the only mainstream television personality who agrees is a marginalized outlier, and when a perfectly reasonable article like this can only be published at a shadowbanned alternative website.

    Strange times indeed. And also in London, where the police (headed by lesbian Cressida Dick) were instructed to stand down while an antifa girl tried to burn the Union Jack on the graffitied Cenotaph (memorial to British soldiers fallen in the two world wars).

    As a study in cultural differences, she could have tried the same thing with the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier (Kremlin wall, Moscow). The guards there would have known exactly what to do with her. Also the public.

  11. Miro23 says:
    @Franz

    Agreed. After the Roman Empire converted to Christianity (Constantine 312 AD) Christians did a thorough job smashing up the statues and temples of the Classical world.

  12. @Kevin Barrett

    Muslims more tolerant than Christians?

    That is monumentally, historically ignorant.

    • Disagree: Biff
    • Replies: @Kevin Barrett
  13. polistra says: • Website

    This is an intentional false concern. Not worth spending any outrage. Statues are pieces of metal. They aren’t lives or jobs or skills or souls. The government is engaged in a full-scale genocide, killing actual people and obliterating jobs and skills and souls. That’s worth worrying about.

    • Replies: @the shadow
  14. Tucker Carlson is wrong. He says the government inaction is due to weak institutions.

    No, this is not a sign of weak institutions but STRONG institutions. The Deep State is encouraging all the violence and chaos to topple Trump. Jewish Oligarchs and Deep State are orchestrating this destruction to humiliate Trump as weak. Tucker should really call out the Jewish supremacist hand.

    This violence isn’t a sign of weak institutions but strong institutions working together to unseat the president. If white nationalists were knocking down statues, the System would deal with them harshly. The system showed how ruthless it could be with Charlottesville. The system lets the destruction continue to shame Trump as weak. The system set Antifa and BLM thugs against the Alt Right at Charlottesville,and now the System is pulling Charlottesville on a national level. Notice how Trump rallies have cratered.

    True, Trump and Barr have a weak hand, but it’s because the Jews and Deep State have the strong hand and have tied Trump and Barr’s hands. Trump and Barr aren’t able to do more and move faster because the power of the Deep State, Big Media, and Military Industrial Complex are all working with BLM and Antifa to spread the violence to make Trump look weak.

    Trump talked big, and many voted for him as the Tough Guy who gets things done. But when things are blowing up all across America, he’s been sucking up to blacks and done little to stop the violence. Also, even those around him have subverted him.

    Jewish Power will stop at nothing to get what it wants. It is powerful,and it controls the institutions. The violence seems out of control at the local level, but it’s being carefully orchestrated at the national and even international level.

    If indeed the institutions were truly weak, Trump and Barr would have a free hand to call in the military and take strong action. But they can’t take tough measures because the System doesn’t allow them to.

    Carlson pretends as if the WHOLE SYSTEM is weak when, in fact, a very powerful system is preventing the president and DOJ from taking action to restore order.

    Indeed, it is precisely because the Deep State institutions are so powerful that they can make so many Americans look upon thugs and terrorists as protesters, justice-warriors, and the like.

    • Agree: Robjil
  15. ivan says:
    @Franz

    See this for a withering takedown down of Catherine who??!

    https://historyforatheists.com/2017/11/review-catherine-nixey-the-darkening-age/

    I don’t normally try to refute any of the atheistic pablum, but I recalled that review.

  16. The words religion and faith are used too interchangeably, and there needs to be some more rigour in their distinction in my opinion. Atheists get triggered by the ‘r’ word, much more so than faith, which they can at least understand in common language terms.

    Faith is just a world view, we mostly all have them. Their world view is not “I have no world view”, but is just another metaphysical speculation “God does not exist, only humans matter”. That they don’t get that this is just nihilism/absurdism, is because they don’t educate themselves in philosophy and theology. After all, most philosophers spoke from a positive faith perspective, and discuss metaphysics, which this faith rejects by doing a full 360!

    The secular faith has no religion though, no path for taming the individual practitioner.. Maybe apart from self help books, but those are mostly built on older, positive faith models.

    What they have, because they reject the ‘self help’ element of religion, is the ‘other help’ element of ideology. Happy to teach others their faith, out of individual ignorance, but not happy to enlighten themselves personally.

    The faith was never tolerant, it is just newish in mass support, and they started by playing softball. Now ‘God is not great’, and if you choose a different world view, you are worth condemnation and attack.

    As for the Buddha statues, the Zen loan says ‘if you see the Buddha – kill him!’. Buddhism was free from representing humans until it encountered Greek culture, so I don’t think Buddha would have much cared for the destruction of symbols – so long as the actions were not harmful or unbeneficial to people, which these days they are with historical Buddha, or historical US leaders’ statues.

  17. Anon[139] • Disclaimer says:

    The United States is full of recent immigrants who feel no kinship or sense of history with those who have made history in our country. It’s possible their grandchildren, after interbreeding with old line Americans, might feel they belong, but we have too many people in this country who literally do not have any connection with our country’s culture. We need to teach our history to these people. And not just, “Oh, this historical figure was not politically correct” sort of teaching.

  18. Seraphim says:
    @Franz

    The first four centuries of Christianity were an orgy of persecution and destruction of the Church.
    The book is nothing but a rehash with the “fierce tone and gross exaggeration” of the anti-Christian activists (she typically declares herself a lapsed Catholic) for which she was lavishly rewarded), of the “long-debunked view of the Middle Ages as a period of blind faith and intellectual stagnation” so dear to the horde of atheists, Islamists, feminists, LGBT+, BLM alike. It is not only a “shoddy work that fails to make the grade even as a polemic”, but simply dishonest, a travesty of scholarship. Everything we know about the Classical World comes from the manuscripts preserved by the Church.

  19. Ghali says:

    “What kind of “historic heritage”. Are you kidding? These status are of despicable people who distorted history.

  20. “Would the Taliban be right? The answer hinges on one’s degree of openness to, and tolerance of, viewpoints other than one’s own. Someone who accepts the Taliban’s condemnation of idolatry, without regard for other people’s perspectives, would agree that the destruction of the Buddha statues made perfect sense.”
    It doesn’t make any sense to me.
    There is a vast difference between worshipping an idol & creating an icon to represent or symbolise a god or prophet. The Buddha is not an idol, it’s a mere representation. So no, I do not excuse their destruction on the given grounds (& I say this knowing the Muslim rejection of any representation in their own practice).
    As for the current destruction of secular statutory, I find it arrogant & abhorrent.
    How dare these people simply dictate what is acceptable public display — especially given their cretinous understanding of history & warped self righteousness ?

    • Replies: @Ivan
  21. Seby says:

    I thought you were talking about the burning of history books.

    statues aren’t history!

    Though who puts them up, tells us a lot about the ruling classes at the time of the installation of what are 99% of the time, an eye sore.

  22. dimples says:

    If I read Mr Barrett’s strangely argued article correctly, (and I might not have) the Taliban, ie a loosely related collection of Muslim nutjobs, possibly blew up the statues of Buddha because they associated these statues with human sacrifice, an apostasy according to monotheistic Islamic belief. (although the mullah ultimately responsible apparently also did it to poke a finger up at Western imperialists).

    I don’t know but when has the Buddha ever been associated with human sacrifice?? Perhaps to Muslim nutjobs maybe but who else? What evidence is there that Buddhism the religion requires the sacrifice of humans for any purpose? I can’t think of any, except perhaps the occasional fanatic who lights himself up for some political cause or other. Have I got this article all wrong or something?

    • Replies: @Kevin Barrett
  23. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:
    @Curmudgeon

    TY for this perspective. Gives the lie to the “treason” allegation.

  24. @Franz

    Christianity was like ISIS and Bolshevism rolled into one.

    As a European I had a right to know of my indigenous religions and roots. Instead I was raised worshiping some jew hippie on a stick. It took me 25 years of near psychosis-inducing Bible study to unf^#k myself of that jewish rubbish. Thank you Adolf Hitler. In just 20 pages total of Table Talks, Hitler totally discredits Christianity more effectively than Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris could in their trite tomes of whiny angsty amateur moaning.

    If Hitler penned his work annonymously, it would all be classics endlessly extolled and talked about by professors not fit to even shine Hitler’s boots.

  25. There is not a single significant monument, temple or shrine in Egypt which had been left untouched by monotheistic vandals. It was only the massive scale of many of these structures that prevented their total destruction. Instead scaffolding was erected in order that faces could be defaced and mutiliated. This had nothing to do with human sacrifice but everything to do with One-god-ism, indeed the bible describes the one true god as directly inspiring Jephtah to make a human sacrifice of his daughter.

    As soon as monotheism makes an appearance in history it is associated with violence i.e. during the era of King Akhenaten in Ancient Egypt and it had nothing to do with human sacrifice.

    I am not sure what a small “g” god alludes to in the article but “God” as a divine name (singular) first appears in Ancient Egypt c.2200.

    When Islam conquered Egypt they stripped the pyramids which had stood for almost 3000 years at Giza but Christians had already done the work of mutiliation.

    • Replies: @MrFoSquare
  26. gotmituns says:

    The one thing I did think was amusing about the taking down of the John C. Calhoun statue in Charleston, SC was that it looked to me as if it was a White owned company with a White crew doing the job of taking the statue down. Obviously, if they’d gotten a black company to do the rigging it would have been a stupid mess from the getgo. That’s if there actually is a black owner rigging outfit which I doubt highly. Oh yeah, it was done with all sorts of blacks standing around happily watching and not one of them could think, hey, how come there’s no brothers doing the work?

    • Replies: @trickster
  27. Those who bring down statues should be brought down!

    Islam was as alien to Afghanistan as a Paki off the boat parading in his Arab inspired native garb from lilly white Brighton beach to largely Jewish Seagate in Brooklyn. Yet the only place that freak would fit in is in between those two bookends of the boardwalk, Coney Island, where the ghosts of freaks from an era gone by are curiously egging on the curry muncher to assert his rights as a new alien.

  28. Emily says:
    @Franz

    Hi Franz
    The more things change the more they stay the same.
    The Church of England now enters the new ‘darkening age’.
    You cannot make this up!!!
    Our Archbishop of Canterbury who is single handedly destroying the CofE anyway – now states this today
    Quote’
    ‘Archbishop of Canterbury says Church must think again about portraying Jesus as white and reveals plan to look ‘very carefully’ at whether statues in Canterbury Cathedral ‘should be there’.
    So we now have formal permission to desecrate every church and cathedral in Britain do we?
    For the noble cause of cultural marxism and revolution.
    Of course – just a a sideline.
    This Archbishop has an anglocised name.
    He is of Eastern European Jewish descent….
    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/justin-welby-and-the-secret-jewish-conspiracy-to-take-over-the-church-of-england-8372353.html
    How surprising.
    Do read
    And this is the full article
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8462735/Archbishop-Canterbury-says-Church-think-portraying-Jesus-white.html

  29. When are antifa ..ct and b l m going to

    knock down the statue of liberty elleis island

    … a symbol of white male oppression of women who wish to be lezbiananas

    or provide it with a strapon mockingbird to greet the tired and humbled asses yearning to be free

    The statue of liberty is built on top of a quarantine center

    Only in the………united states of quarantine

    where they torch the torch

    and ring of fire the belle of freedom

  30. onebornfree says: • Website

    Food for thought: “All Statues Should Be Private”:

    “It’s difficult to evoke much concern for the removal of statues of slavery advocates from public property, but the historical revisionism hasn’t stopped there, of course. As the removals have devolved from a policy debate to a mob activity, they’ve engulfed morally sketchy politicians, debatable public figures and, inevitably, people about whom the mob seems to have serious misconceptions. Given that bronze and stone replicas of fallible human beings seem incapable of serving any unifying purpose for people forced to pay taxes to erect them, it’s time to get government out of the monument business. From now on, let private groups celebrate their fandom on their own dime, and on their own property……”:
    https://reason.com/2020/06/24/all-statues-should-be-private/

    Regards, onebornfree

  31. GMC says:

    Good article Doc, now the idiots in SE Alaska want to remove the statues of Baranov and Seward in Sitka. This CIA/NWO operation is getting the Public ready for a Biden Presidency , where he will go after Russia, since he got away with murder – in Ukraine. What’s Biden’s sons name – Jared ? Well, no matter his name , he is licking his chops – with regards to looting the US out of millions – with Daddy’s blessings, of course. Both the Covid 19 and the NWO virus needs to run its course and die.

  32. @Seby

    its the end of the united statues of America

    THE MALCONTENT HAVE RUN OFF WITH THE MALLCONTENT

    with or without help from the federal reserve

    History is a non stop treason trial written and unwritten in statues

    by main scream media tripewriters

    WHICH purvey the latest BStrollogty to themasses who do not o join the dots

    themselves without help from the bent rulerrs running the CoNN

  33. Rooster4 says:

    I think you’re overthinking this a bit. I’ve lived around Madison my entire life. It’s a radically left enclave, with highly educated and politically liberal Whites, and low IQ violent blacks who’ve migrated from Chicago, due to the vast amount of free social programs and entitlements offered in Madison.

    This relationship has gotten extremely toxic, with one enabling the other; things will get much worse before they get better. Not only does the radical left leadership not possess the ability to correctly identify the problem and provide a solution, but I believe they’re fully supporting the destruction behind the scenes. The violent blacks are good at sensing weakness and taking full advantage of it; they’ve found that in abundance in Madison, and it’s quickly turning into the Devil’s Playground. Let this be a cautionary tale.

  34. mcohen says:

    Fatwa 1a section 3

    Statues are idol worship.Worship of men and not God.They must be knocked down and removed wherever they are.works of art excluded

    A nice little plaque will do,preferably in bronze.

    The ten commandments must be expanded to include one more commandment

    They shalt not pollute and destroy the earth for material gain.

  35. Bemildred says:

    I have a low opinion of the whole idea of monuments to politicians and naming things after them, the whole “legacy” schtick, so it doesn’t bother me at all to see these statues disposed of. And most of these people being pulled over richly deserve oblivion. Let them reside in the history books, and not offend our sensibilities with their self-promoting bad art.

  36. @Wood Stove

    You should read Might is Right. Nothing eviscerates Christianity like that book does. When the Jew Anton LeVay wrote The Satanic Bible, he lifted entire pages from it.

    • Replies: @Wood Stove
  37. Che Guava says:

    I think it is very sick.

    However, you are wrong about Mecca. The bulk of the idols (of course after initial destructioo of some) remained, most were only destroyed in very recent years.

    • Agree: Ivan
  38. sarz says:

    Kevin, I’m usually on your wavelength, but surprisingly in an area where I would expect you have to special expertise, namely Islamic studies, I think you are wide of the mark.

    I think the evidence of Islamic iconiclasm is much weaker than we might expect. Suggest you google /finbarr flood, islamic iconoclasm/.

  39. Those that control the past control the future – George Orwell. What we have here in the ZUS is a bolshevik revolution and it is backed by the same zionist groups that did the bolshevik revolution in Russia.

    Read the book Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution by Anthony Sutton and The Controversy of Zion and The Protocols of Zion, and the hell that they are bringing to America has been decades in the planning.

  40. @Franz

    You’re engaging in a form of simplistic binary hypercritique wielded by leftists, i.e., if something isn’t perfect, then you feel that gives you intellectual carte blanche to destroy the whole thing. But the truth of the matter is that you rabid Christophobes have no effing clue as to what benefits Christianity has provided to Western Civilization, including the unacknowledged milieu which permeates and undergirds every facet of every good thing you may still currently enjoy in your daily lives. Without Christianity there would have been no flower of Western Civilization, period. Oh sure, there would have been something, but God only knows whether it would have been anything other than nasty, brutish, and short. Go ahead, bad-mouth the current state of Christianity as much as you want, but it only proves how utterly bereft of historical context and/or intelligence you actually are. And reading unsubstantiated trash like ‘The Darkening Age’ is nothing more than confirmation bias from other effing Christophobes just like yourself.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  41. @Wood Stove

    Increasingly feeling the same about being denied my ancient roots. Thanks Rome and your Catholic Church for that.

  42. Greg Bacon says: • Website

    It’s Open Season on White Males. And I fear this insanity is just getting started. If these Antifa thugs, using BLM as a cover, manage to take control of the Federal govt, we’ll see a repeat of what Antifa’s ancestors did in Russia after they stole the Revolution. Many of us will get murdered in cold blood and many more will be shipped off to American gulags to be either worked or starved to death.

    Facebook Waived Hate Speech Policies to Advance its Pro-Pride/LGBTQ Agenda

    One example was when Facebook-Cognizant policy and training manager Shawn Browder told all the content moderators in Hartwig’s section for the 2018 Pride Month hate speech would be allowed to stay up if it was in support of the LGBTQ agenda.

    Hartwig said Browder told the moderators to implement the special policy, which in the case of Pride Month allowed attacks on a single group of people, quoting Browder: “Hey, we’re making the exceptions for our policy to favor the, LGBT community.”

    O’Keefe: Hate speech is allowed if it’s ‘intended to raise awareness for pride LGBTQ,’ so hate speech is allowed in some cases, but apparently not others?

    Hartwig: Yeah.

    “Anything that is a delete per our Hate Speech policies but is intended to raise awareness for Pride/LGBTQ. This may occur especially in terms of attacking straight white males.”

    https://www.projectveritas.com/news/another-facebook-whistleblower-interference-on-a-global-level-in-elections/

    • Agree: Emily
    • Replies: @Monotonous Languor
  43. I’m quite certain that Buddhists have never embraced human sacrifice.

    • Replies: @DudeWhat
    , @Kevin Barrett
  44. trickster says:

    I see in some comments here on Unz there is mention of highly educated white kids and ignorant black kids. However I have my own definition of highly educated white kids. In my career in upper management I was always astounded to meet Masters Graduates in their 20’s, with MBAs who:
    1. Could not subtract $1.53 from $2.73 without a calculator
    2. And could not put a sentence together

    The same applies to those with other high end degrees. Imagine a sentence in a letter from a Corporate lawyer with both a Bachelor’s and Law Degree.

    “We would be happy to meet with you and your client to finalise our contract. Please provide us with THERE ……………. We can meet HARE at our Corporate Offices on………..”

    This document included a financial schedule from an MBA at the subsidiary doing the deal, said financial schedule being inaccurate and absolute nonsense. I had to wait several hours to cool down before I dealt with this issue.

    Is my experience an exception ? In chatting casually about University life with “students” I garnered what a free for all this is. First the parents pay the bill so it seems there is an easy come easy go attitude on the part of the child. They did not have to sweat for the fees. Then we come to the schedule and activities. A typical week would be:
    -Monday…sleep off the weekend party
    -Tuesday and Wednesday…classes
    -Thursday to Sunday (use drugs, drink, sex, party etc)

    Friday and Saturday nights are particularly dangerous in the party areas of university towns. On the other side of the coin, the Professors don’t give a shit. The student is going to graduate whether he writes a brilliant paper or one that is sheer rubbish. The Prof is not going to get his/ her underwear in a knot with the administration because a lot of bonehead head students are party animals. Fail them ? No fucking way ! Want your kid to say he is a Harvard graduate ? Just stump up the right size donation to the institution. don’t have the money because you are black. There is always affirmative action and LeMarcus, who can barely read or write or speak properly can now pursue his Doctorate in Slavery and Its Impact on Diversity and Multiculturism.

    The result is a “highly educated society” but what does this mean ? It means the same as a kid who dropped out of JK. Talk to the average university student and not a single intelligent thing comes out of their mouth even in their own fields of study. Its a bunch of bubble heads waving a parchment with fancy seals and flourishing signatures. Hell, even the black girl who testified at Zimmerman’s trial, the complete idiot and retard, is, I now understand is a college graduate.

    We now have a plague of “highly educated” apes, with high level impressive sounding degrees from
    high level impressive universities and colleges…..and we wonder why we are where we are ??

    • Agree: Ivan
  45. @Greg Bacon

    I agree. This madness is just getting started. Any white male with an ounce of sense should immediately emigrate out of the US to somewhere reasonably safe where he can apply for political asylum should the SHTF. Areas to consider would be eastern Europe, Russia, some parts of Asia. Do it now, don’t wait for Trump to be re-elected. He’s only one man, and he can’t stop the hordes of woke undead all by himself. Regardless, after his term no Republicans to the right of Mao will get elected to national office ever again.

    • Agree: Emily
  46. @Gleimhart Mantooso

    Sorry to break it to you, but “Muslims have generally been more tolerant than Christians” is pretty much the consensus of historians and religious studies scholars. For an easy-to-read introduction, check out Karen Armstrong’s books. Even arch-Zionist Islamophobe uber-Orientalist Bernard Lewis admits it. The torrent of low-grade Islamophobic vomit spewing threw the media and publishing industries since 9/11 is considered a tasteless joke by all competent scholars. But they have to be careful what they say about it or the banksters and Zionists will wreck their careers. They were much more straightforward in the 1980s and 1990s.

    Why have almost all Muslim-ruled lands always featured large, thriving Christian and other religious minority communities, whereas virtually no Christian lands ever tolerated any Muslim communities at all? Spain is the most straightforward example: https://www.amazon.com/Ornament-World-Christians-Tolerance-Medieval/dp/0316168718

    Today’s ultra-tolerant (some would say pseudo-tolerant) secular West is, of course, no longer Christian. It “tolerates” all religions equally by forcing them out of public life and deeming them irrelevant.

  47. @Carlton Meyer

    They already toppled the statue of “the little woman who wrote the book that started this great war”:

    http://kevinwhiteman.com/mob-violence-abolitionist-harriet-beecher-stowes-statue-toppled-ancestor-may-have-engaged-in-slave-trade/

    I doubt even a John Brown statue would be more charitably regarded.

  48. rienzi says:

    As I child in Sunday school, I was taught the story of Abraham setting a tied up Issac on an altar, ready to cut his throat because of a command of God. This was portrayed as a wonderful, noble act. Of course, at the last minute the command is revoked, and Issac is saved.

    Nobody seems to have ever asked Issac what he thought of the whole affair.

    I brought this up in class, and was pretty much branded a vicious pagan with terrible wrongthink.

    • Replies: @schnellandine
    , @Ivan
  49. chuckywiz says:

    The real reason for blowing up the statues, I recall reading it, was non payment of ransom that Taliban had demanded. It had nothing to do with religious beliefs. After all the Taliban ruled the country over 10 years. They could have blown up the statues a long time ago. The ransom negotiation dragged on for so long and the Taliban got really pissed off and lost patience. In Islamic world mostly in Asia, Gotam Budh is considered a probable prophet (among 122,000 or so). One can see Budah statues all over Asian Islamic countries.
    A similar falsehood about shooting of Mala, a Pakistani school student in Lahore. The real reason was her dad the principal os a prestigious private school refused to pay extortion money to Talibans. In the shooting three other girls along with Mala were also shot. However, the west jumped on the opportunity to demonize Islam and painted it as a religious act. Missing from the discussion were the three other girls. And to elevate the incident, Mala was recommended for the Nobel Prize. Full exposure.

    • Thanks: Ivan
  50. @Jack McArthur

    As soon as monotheism makes an appearance in history it is associated with violence i.e. during the era of King Akhenaten in Ancient Egypt and it had nothing to do with human sacrifice.

    I thought the firstborn of the Egyptians were sacrificed by the monomaniacs, the descendants of Abraham?

    I am not sure what a small “g” god alludes to in the article but “God” as a divine name (singular) first appears in Ancient Egypt c.2200.

    Variations on monotheism existed long before 2200 BC. The ancient Aryans were sun worshipers. The king was called the Son of the Sun, or the Son of God. The sun was worshiped as the source of life (the life-giving force), or essentially as a monotheistic God. This is where monotheism derives from.

  51. anon[248] • Disclaimer says:

    Is Barret trying to sound intellectual by titling the article with a rhetorical question a la Buchanan?
    It’s tiresome. I didn’t even read the article. Asking rhetorically if anti-white/anti-West savagery and iconoclasm might be “meritorious” is a new level of mendacious assholism.

    • Agree: schnellandine
  52. @Kevin Barrett

    Islam killed Christians, Polytheists and Hindus in a continuous bloodbath that begin in the 7th century and has yet to abate. 270 million dead non-Muslims murdered by Muslims. Think about that. It is without doubt, the most hateful ideologies on the planet along with Babylonian Talmudism.
    Islam promotes a dualistic view of the world: Muslim and the rest. The rest are okay to kill in the expansion of Dar el Islaam and jihad. The Koran is quite clear on this. In addition, the principle of taqiyah allows them to lie to your face about any and all of the above.

    Just as in the issue of slavery, the truth about Islam has been buried beneath a mountain of lies.
    The question is why and by whom?

    • Replies: @Talha
  53. anon[248] • Disclaimer says:
    @Priss Factor

    Most normal Whites have jobs and families, or at the least a certain dignity, and CANNOT and WILL NOT go to jail. Jail is what happens when you mix with the savages. The police only arrest the Whites.

    That needs to be a component of your comment, which is otherwise very strong (tho not perfect)

    • Agree: Happy tapir
  54. DudeWhat says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Why are there almost no Christians in any place conquered by Muslims, and why are there no people on earth who self report anything but horror upon the arrival of Islam? Is everyone in India delusional? (By the way. They were monotheistic before Islam ever existed meaning the Quran is wrong, and they use statues without sacrificing kids.). What about everyone in the Balkans with their horrible forced conversions and mass murder? Are the just inventing all of that?

    Sheikh Hamza Yusuf, similarly dressed in sheep’s clothing like you are, has praised the country of Turkey a few times for being so tolerant. The same Turkey where the Sheikh’s own mother wouldn’t be allowed to openly practice her faith, and where there is a demand by local Muslims to reconvert Hagia Sophia into a mosque.

    I knew you were dishonest, but you’re not even trying here. In other faiths one can practice yet also be critical. I think we know why you’re not allowed that same privilege. The consequences from your fellow Muslims would be dangerous.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @chuckywiz
  55. Talha says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    270 million dead non-Muslims murdered by Muslims.


    No serious historian worth his salt accepts that figure.

    Peace.

  56. DudeWhat says:
    @Roderick Spode

    Nor have Jains, nor have Hindus, or Zoroastrians (who Muslims belittle by calling them fire worshippers) or really anyone else.

    He’s just following Islamic tradition by making things up to support Islam.

    • Replies: @Ivan
    , @anonymous
  57. Talha says:
    @DudeWhat

    why are there no people on earth who self report anything but horror upon the arrival of Islam?

    I don’t know why we should accept this:
    “Under the yoke of the Byzantine empire — a continuation of the Roman empire in the east Mediterranean — the Copts were treated very badly. The Byzantines imposed on them an alien patriarch who was sent to Egypt from Constantinople. But in 623 A.D. the Persians captured Egypt as a result of the immense chaos all over the country. The Copts were prevented from practicing their religion, and their human and national rights were denied. Nevertheless, some Copts felt relief because alien Patriarchs were no longer appointed by Byzantium to oppress the Egyptian church…This was a bitter period in which Emperor Heraclius’ only concern was to oppose and shatter the church. He gave orders to transfer Bishop Visas of Asia Minor to Alexandria with power to exercise both ecclesiastical and civil authority. During that period, Pope Benjamin was forced to flee to Scetis…The Arabs marched under Amr Ibn Elaas, reached Egypt at Al Farama on the Red Sea. After a month of fighting they conquered the city and headed west…Amr cancelled the heavy Byzantine taxes and did not ask the Egyptians to pay more than the tribute. He opted to collect reasonably moderate sums of money and differed on this matter with Omar Ibn Al-Khattab (his commander the caliph). He also gave the Egyptians freedom to worship and freely exercise their legal and administrative matters. He appointed some Copts as directors in various districts, yet he exempted them from the military service. In an amicable atmosphere, the Pope met with Amr who showed him esteem and veneration.”
    http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/synexarion/benjamen.html

    “Only through the campaigns of Islam in the first half of the 7th century was it possible to free the East from the Byzantines and the Persians. This happened with the help of the members of the Syrian Church; the original inhabitants of Syria of whom one part was of Aramaic origin who inhabited these areas for generations and another part was of Arabic origin. When the Arab Muslims marched into Syria they were welcomed by the Syrians who saw the new rulers as saviors who freed them from the yoke of the Byzantines because the Byzantines tried by force to assimilate them into the Byzantine Church. This was the church of the empire and membership in it would have meant compulsorily acceptance of the resolutions of Chalcedon: that Christ had two natures, the human eating, drinking and feeling pain and the divine making miracles. This would have been a denial of the dogma of their church fathers. The Syrians were also able through the cooperation with the Arab Muslims to retain their ecclesiastical dogma, the Antiochian See, their churches, monasteries, ecclesiastical inheritance and their liturgy…The Syrians put great hope in them, not only because the Muslims liberated them from their religious trouble but also because they relieved the Syrians of the burdensome taxes that were placed on their backs. They said, ‘Praise be to God, who delivered us from the unjust Byzantines and who put us under the rule of the just Muslim Arabs.’“
    http://syrianorthodoxchurch.org/2010/03/a-short-overview-of-the-common-history/

    They were monotheistic before Islam ever existed meaning the Quran is wrong

    Logic fail.

    In other faiths one can practice yet also be critical.

    Muslim scholars debate all the time on many matters.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  58. Agent76 says:

    Jun 26, 2020 “Killing History” An Examination of Marxism with Dr Duke Pesta and Stefan Molyneux

    Stefan Molyneux and Dr. Pesta crack the code on the current assault on Western values – what is happening, and why?

    • Replies: @anon
  59. chuckywiz says:
    @DudeWhat

    Where are you getting this crap. You need to travel across the globe and learn yourself rather reading the history (most of the so called historian copy each other) in your living room if you have one. I submit that Islam is as violent as any other religion. But overall it is more tolerant in comparison. Go to Al-Hamrah in Spain, or to the Balkan you may learn a few things here and there. Please include Uzbekistan in your list of learning about Islam.

  60. @rienzi

    , at the last minute the command is revoked, and Issac is saved.

    Went to Sunday school too. I now see the characters God and Abraham the same as the characters Tyler Durden and The Narrator.

    That ol’ Abe was a nutty, nutty guy.

  61. Che Guava says:

    This is the third time I am mentioning this very relevant book. Surely some can get from a library or inter-library system.

    It is exactly what is happening to your (I mean, ofcourse U.S. readers) country now, except it is set about forty to fifty years ago, and, IIRC, doesn’t feature large amounts of capital from big capital to the rioters and looters.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6828079-the-coming-self-destruction-of-the-usa

  62. Ivan says:
    @animalogic

    The Bhamiyan statues actually represent the Buddha as having attained a superior existence through self-abnegation. They did bother anyone including the Muslims in the centuries since until Taliban came along. Its a little like the BLM fellows. Nobody in the past made an issue of the statues since they understood the difference between representation and idolatry. The BLM is apart from anything an intellectually and spiritually regressive movement.

    • Replies: @Ivan
  63. Pindos says:

    Catherine Nixey is a journalist and a classicist. Her mother was a nun, her father was a monk, and she was brought up Catholic. She studied classics at Cambridge and taught the subject for several years before becoming a journalist on the arts desk at the Times (UK), where she still works.

    Catherine – daughter of two who each broke his vows and passed on their excuses.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
  64. Kevin Barrett: “That some might see the Civil War as primarily about the right of secession rather than slavery …”

    The sociology of the effort that exists to rewrite history and make the Civil War not about slavery, but about tariffs, or the right of succession, or virtually anything else, is very interesting, but the idea itself is ludicrous. If it wasn’t the point of the War, how then to explain the abolition of slavery and the gift of citizenship and the vote to negroes immediately afterward? This is something the nearly 100% white and Christian citizenry of the USA decided at that time to impose upon itself nationwide, not just upon the defeated South. It didn’t require “brainwashing” by radio, television, and film, because none of those things existed at the time. It required no Frankfurt School, no Jewish educational establishment, no AIPAC, no ADL or NAACP. It required no antifa. These white Christians did it all by themselves, to themselves.

    Of course, those who want to claim the War wasn’t about slavery will also claim that there were plans to deport the negroes rather than make them citizens. But these “plans” were never more than Christian pipe dreams that depended upon all the negroes volunteering to leave. The bitter truth is that nobody had any plan to round them all up and deport them whether they wanted to go or not. That was considered so far out of the question it wasn’t even a topic of discussion at the time.

    It’s only natural that modern-day Christians on the right don’t want their religion to take the blame for this, and don’t want to see their ancestors as fools. So rather than admit the truth, that the War really was driven by Christian fanaticism, expressed as a commitment to abolish slavery and assert “the brotherhood of man” through support of a radical racial egalitarianism, they strain desperately to make it about something else. Unfortunately, there are plenty of historical illiterates who, with equal desperation, want to believe their excuses.

    • Replies: @J.Hart
    , @Catiline
  65. Ivan says:
    @rienzi

    You have to understand the Christian take on the matter. It is a pointer to the Sacrifice on Christ on the Cross. The difference between the story of Isaac and Abraham is that God the Father and God the Son went through with it.

  66. @Priss Factor

    You write: “race + ism should really mean the belief in the reality of race and the need for racial consciousness. Jews know this, which is why they are adamant about Jewish identity, Jewish interests, and Jewish culture.” You might have added Jewish eugenics. Jews have been marrying their smartest poor boys to rich merchants’ daughters, and encouraging them to have big families, for millennia…while Christians take their smartest boys and make them priests and monks. Jewish racist supremacism has a basis in reality.

    Where you are wrong is taking Jewish racism as and ideal, a model, and a template. In fact, it is a model and template of evil. Rather than saying “let’s be just as racist as the Jews so we can defeat them,” why not say “let’s all join the cause of good and defeat evil with God’s help.” There are 4.5 billion followers of anti-racist ethical monotheism, and fewer than 15 million who identify as tribal Jews. Why abandon the high ground so easily? Maybe the white racist movement was manufactured precisely for this purpose?

    • Agree: Z-man
    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  67. Ivan says:
    @DudeWhat

    The Muslims like the Protestants have to make up stories about the past to justify themselves.

  68. Z-man says:

    We are living in strange times when a US president feels the need to issue an executive order demanding that laws against destroying pubic monuments be enforced, when the only mainstream television personality who agrees is a marginalized outlier, and when a perfectly reasonable article like this can only be published at a shadow banned alternative website.

    Yes strange times indeed and disturbing that Unz has been banned by some outlets but Tucker Carlson, who may be an outlier as you state, has the biggest following on cable. Tucker’s sensibilities must be victorious over the ‘progressive’ crap that is flooding the airwaves.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  69. The Mark Twain/schoolboy quote “faith is believing what you know aint so” comes to mind when encountering apologists who cannot admit the least imperfection in their conceit. From memory c. 400 Christian dioceses were lost when Islam brought “peace” to the neighbouring lands of the Middle East. Also from memory the former nun Karen Amstrong attributed the conquests to the banditry which the Arab tribes had practised amongst themselves being now off the menu because of their common religion and new outlets for robbery being needed. Violence begins early in Islam with internicene wars. It began early in Christianity when they obtained the upperhand and it appears in Ancient Egypt in the 2nd millenium bce when monotheism appears there.

    The people who blow up Christian Churches on Christmas day and Easter Sunday with their worshippers inside do so because they believe they have the support of the “one true god”. They think that those Muslims who disassociate themselves from such deeds are not “true believers”.

    Violence doesn’t need any religious justification but unquestionably monotheism/religions of the book took it to a whole new level because they have the truth, error has no rights when the very word of god (small c) commands.

  70. El Dato says:
    @Franz

    Whenever people get exited and full of themselves, history is being erased. Especially if the new meme complexes infect large nations with armies.

    As recently as 2005:


    Babylon wrecked by war: US-led forces leave a trail of destruction and contamination in architectural site of world importance

    This is not peculiar to “Christianity”. The whole of the Ancient Testament is about The People wrecking the stuff of others. In fact, attacks on “Christianity” are more often than not attacks on “Europeanity”.

    However…

    Here is one about Christianity as essentially a Middle Eastern Religion that got forcefully implanted into European spaces and radically genocided in its birthplace

    The Lost History of Christianity: The Thousand-Year Golden Age of the Church in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia–and How It Died

    Any reasonable projection of the Christian future would have foreseen a bipolar world, divided between multiethnic churches centered respectively in Constantinople and Baghdad.

    But

    A brutal purge of Christianity, most spectacularly in Asia, left Europe as the geographical heart of the Christian faith, and as the only possible base for later expansion.

    This “uprooting” created the Christianity that we commonly think of today as the true historical norm, but which in reality was the product of the elimination of alternative realities.

    It’s complex!

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  71. @dimples

    From the mainstream Muslim perspective, following the Buddha’s teachings is fine (he was presumably one of God’s countless prophets) but putting up a statue of him is wrong, because it leads to idolatry, the one unforgivable sin, associated with the sinful practices of the pagan Meccans, including human sacrifice. Today, thanks to Rene Girard and other anthropologists, we understand that all pagan idols are monuments to human sacrifice, THE central practice that founds all human culture, until monotheism exposes and neuters it (or tries to). The Qur’an says that when people worship idols they are really worshipping jinn, i.e. demons. These demons feed on human sacrifice. There is plenty of evidence, both from anthropology and from the “conspiracy world,” that this is not just a superstition; it really happens. Check out the links in the article for more information.

    When my ex-C*I friend Gordon says he saw a classified memo explaining that one of the many extraterrestrial and intradimensional life forms interacting with earth is an extradimensional entity that feeds on human suffering, and interfaces with selected humans who help it maximize the suffering it feeds on—and that the Rothschilds have long been performing “infestiture” ceremonies inviting these demons to cohabit with them and guide them in their quest for wealth and power—I suspect he’s telling the truth. Ex-CIA chief William Colby said something similar to John DeCamp apropos the Franklin Scandal—the perps will be tough to beat because they have demons with psi powers on their side. Colby died in a “boating accident” not long after his attempt to help DeCamp.

  72. fred777 says:

    “Any white male with an ounce of sense should immediately emigrate out of the US to somewhere reasonably safe where he can apply for political asylum should the SHTF. Areas to consider would be eastern Europe, Russia, some parts of Asia.”

    The last thing any of those areas need, or should allow, is an American to move in among them.

  73. SafeNow says:

    I myself am a torn-down statue, in that I have lost the respect and affection of family and friends. Recent events have completed my cancellation, but it largely occurred when I unabashedly “confessed” to having voted for Trump. Recently on Unz, someone said that an unwoke comment risks a reprimand from children or even grandchildren. This suggests that the woke person’s disapproval is narrowly directed at the comment. I disagree. It is broader. It entails the permanent loss of affection and respect; Uncle X is a very bad person. A racist. The worst kind of person that one can be. About a year ago a commenter summed-up the above poignantly when he said “I am lonely.” Now this cancellation by family and friends applies with much greater force. The statues are a metaphor.

    • Replies: @schnellandine
  74. anon[421] • Disclaimer says:

    There’s another way to look at this. Iconoclasm can be applied to civic religion too. And officially-commissioned statues have nothing whatever to do with the spontaneous culture or folkways of the American peoples. Instead, they are icons of statist doctrine, promoting unthinking veneration of general government bullshit. And when a government has been thoroughly discredited, as the USA has been, you’re safe starting from scratch. American culture has been pervasively brutalized and perverted for state violence. There are plenty of new heroes we can memorialize when the USA has been dismantled. Statue destruction is a defensible, if symbolic, middle finger to the neo-imperialists who are mistreating my country in the black-letter legal terms of core human rights.

  75. @Kevin Barrett

    Where you are wrong is taking Jewish racism as and ideal, a model, and a template. In fact, it is a model and template of evil. Rather than saying “let’s be just as racist as the Jews so we can defeat them,” why not say “let’s all join the cause of good and defeat evil with God’s help.” There are 4.5 billion followers of anti-racist ethical monotheism, and fewer than 15 million who identify as tribal Jews.

    No, race-ism need not be imperialist. Also, it wasn’t the Jews who spread imperialism all over the world. It was the univeralists, the Christians and Muslims who conquered other lands and imposed their ‘universal’ values on others. Jews took advantage of this, of course, and plied their trade all across the world.
    But without Christian and Muslim imperialism, would Jews have the kind of power they have today?

    If all peoples thought more like Jews and formed their own special covenant with God, the world would be better off. But Christians and Muslims believed ALL THE WORLD must be converted, often by the sword or guns. Christian and Islamic universalism doesn’t mean all humans and cultures have equal value. It means that all the world must be remade and converted to the one true faith. It’s like communist universalism says all the world must be communist. It’s like globo-homo universalism says all the world must be made to worship homos.

    Jews should be admired for resisting the attempt by Christians and Muslims to convert them. Granted, there is a great contradiction within Judaism: There is only one God, but He favors us over all others.

    But I argue for a different kind of covenant. Not the supremacist one of Jews but a particularist one, i.e. each people have a unique and special relation to God, but none is better or superior than those of others. It’s like there is only one Sun in the Solar System, but each people all over the world have different relations with it. Some get more of it, some get less of it, and each people found their own meaningful and constructive relation with the sun.

    I totally reject the notion that race-ism has to be imperialist or supremacist. It only needs to be realist and nationalist. Realist in that races do exist and are different. It is this realism that justifies racial separation. As blacks are more muscular and more aggressive than other races, why should other races endanger themselves by living next to black thugs? Blacks got Africa, a huge continent. Let them live there. This attitude isn’t white supremacist or anti-black. If anything, it says blacks are SUPERIOR in athleticism and physical prowess and THAT IS WHY the weaker races need protection from blacks. Indeed, the current black supremacist attitude is the result of racial dynamics. Blacks know they can beat up other races and feel that others should kiss their ass as the badass race.

    [MORE]

    It was Christians and Muslims who tried to convert blacks and created a human bridge between Africa and the West. Their ‘anti-racism’ did more harm.

    People think of ‘racism’ as racial supremacism, but by race-ism, I mean racial realism. It doesn’t mean your race is better than other races but DIFFERENT, perhaps superior in certain attributes while inferior in others.

    As for the JQ, it cannot be understood apart from race-ism. The problem of Jews isn’t merely one of their attitude or outlook. It is due to real differences in their abilities and personalities. Many Jews have the IQ and personality of Alan Dershowitz. They are smart and pushy. As such, they gain dominant power over other groups, and this feeds their pride and contempt. Jewishness without Jewish IQ would be nothing. Suppose average Jewish IQ were 90 and suppose Jews had the passive personality of Mexicans. Where would Jews be? Nowhere.
    Again, if you want to understand Jewish Power and Jewish attitudes, one must be race-ist or race-realist.

    In a way, Jews became more dangerous as secularists and universalists than as traditionalists. Whatever negative feelings traditional Jews may have held, they were restrained by a certain moralism and sense of limits. But secular Jews believed they were free to pursue anything. Power became their new religion. And their new modes of world domination centered around communism, capitalism, and hedonism. Old Jews did far less harm to the world than New Jews with globo-homo. Sure, New Jews are contradictory. On the one hand, they pose as ‘leftists’ pushing Tikkun Olam ‘social justice’ while, at the same time, working to boost Zionist power.
    But the new Jewish arrogance has less to do with spirituality than cognitive arrogance. Jews feel they are the smarter race and should rule. But then, blacks think they are tougher race and should rule. And homos think they are the creative people and should rule. All such attitudes are best understood in terms of genetics.

    I argue for a humanist race-ism. Let each race know itself and understand its advantages and disadvantages vis-a-vis other races. Under humanist race-ism, Europeans would not go into racial supremacist mode and conquer other nations. No, they would try to defend and preserve what is uniquely theirs on their own homelands. And they would especially block the arrival of blacks because evolution made blacks the tougher and more aggressive race. Black men will thump white men and hump white women. Now, if Kevin Barrett thinks blacks will become nice folks under universalism, he should take a look at Detroit. Look at black violence in London.
    As for ‘legacy of slavery’, spare me. Blacks in Africa were savages forever before white man came along. Also, free blacks come to Australia today and act just like thugs in the US and London. It’s in their nature.

    Jews are now in racial supremacist mode, and we should reject that. What the world needs is racial humanism. All peoples should acknowledge the worth of all other peoples in the world, but each people should guard and preserve their identity, history, and territory. They should be nice and tolerant to minorities in their midst, but they should NOT increase Diversity, and they should especially be wary of letting Jews and blacks in because Jews can outsmart them and take over institutions and because blacks can thump the native men and hump the native women.

    People think only in two options: Covenant only for Jews or ONE universal covenant for all mankind under Christianity or Islam. But there is a third option. How about many covenants, one for each people, and no covenant is superior to others, and each covenant should be respected. Let Italians have the pizza covenant, let Japanese have the sushi covenant, let Greeks have the gyros covenant, let Russians have the goulash covenant, and etc.
    According to Jews, the Law is only for them. To Christians and Muslims, there is ONE LAW for all mankind. But each people can find their own Law in their own relation to the Higher Truth.

  76. anonymous[376] • Disclaimer says:
    @Z-man

    when the only mainstream television personality who agrees is a marginalized outlier . . .

    AGREE
    with the first and fact-based and most essential point you made: Carlson is not the outlier the author asserts.

    OTOH,

    . . . and when a perfectly reasonable article like this

    is self-serving, hubristic, and just as devoid of factual support as the first claim.

    Barrett mistakes his convert’s zeal for the perfections of Islam for actual “reasonableness”.

    In so doing he misses the forest for not a tree but a withered leaf.

    But then, as an intellectual fly-weight, landing on a dried up leaf scarce disturbs the universe.

    Nevertheless, two new books were brought to awareness, Gellner’s slim volume (only half of a project), and The Darkening Age.

    Browsing the online pages of the latter book made me aware that the authentic Jesus moment was of very short duration: Paul may have ended authentic Jesus; the Jesus moment certainly ended pre-Constantine, -Anthony, -Augustine, -Ambrose and -Tertullian.

    The people of the USA were gifted with a re-vitalization of authentic Jesus in the writings and thoughts of Thomas Jefferson.

    A Jewish publishing house now owns his Jefferson Bible that scrapped the odious Abrahamism of Hebrew Scriptures together with the rest of that oft-hateful text.

    Italian Catholics had no trouble venerating statues and images; they saw aesthetics as kin to spiritual development. And the folk ways of many, many European ethnicities were incorporated into their expressions of the message of Jesus.

    Germans went so far as to propose extricating Hebrew-ness from their modes of Christian expression, and incorporating their own folkways.

    E Michael Jones has been harshly critical of Germans / Europeans for adapting & assimilating their ethnic traditions to the message of Jesus. In this, in my opinion, Jones is profoundly mistaken: his is the mistake of Abrahamism: Do it my way, or no way.

    Abrahamism is the root — the ‘original sin’ of Choseness, of Exceptionalism, of democratization at the point of a gun, the beam of a drone, or the number of zeros before the decimal point.

    That last was expressed by Black Rep. Hank Johnson today: “for white people to fully understand and learn to acknowledge that Black Lives Matter is “cathartic for the soul of white folks.”

    Johnson wouldn’t be saying that so boldly if he was not sitting on a pile of Jewish lucre.

    And we know the catharsis that moved through the soul of Jesus in his confrontation with the Pharisees and their money.

  77. @Talha

    Not sure if you’ve been paying attention to this, but, recently, a number of “Little Recent Commenting History” anti-Islam sockpuppets have been cropping up in threads such as these. It’s typically a one-and-done kamikaze post; we’re not likely to see a rebuttal to your response. Seems as if the offending party is interested merely in inciting conflict between Christians and Muslims.

    (Hmm … Now who could that possibly be?)

    Had to laugh when “DudeWhat” said that Christians weren’t openly allowed to practice their faith in Turkey. When my parents visited a few years ago, I personally escorted them to church services in the heart of Istanbul, then in Ankara one week later.

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  78. @Kevin Barrett

    When my ex-C*I friend Gordon says he saw a classified memo explaining that one of the many extraterrestrial and intradimensional life forms interacting with earth is an extradimensional entity that feeds on human suffering, and interfaces with selected humans who help it maximize the suffering it feeds on—and that the Rothschilds have long been performing “infestiture” ceremonies inviting these demons to cohabit with them and guide them in their quest for wealth and power—I suspect he’s telling the truth. Ex-CIA chief William Colby said something similar to John DeCamp apropos the Franklin Scandal—the perps will be tough to beat because they have demons with psi powers on their side. Colby died in a “boating accident” not long after his attempt to help DeCamp.

    More information (links, texts, etc.) would be greatly appreciated, akhi.

    was-salaam.

  79. @Talha

    Your response is laughable.
    Islam began as a bloddbath, rapidly expanding in the vacuum created by several centuries of warfare between Imperial Rome and Persia. By the 6th century, a combination of warfare and plague rendered both empires weak. Islam was able to exploit this weakness and began a period of expansion that continued for over 7 centuries.
    Bear in mind, that one of the first crisis that the American nation had to face was the Barbary Pirates and their non-stop predation. This took immense effort and finance for the new Republic to face and overcome. The failure to do so would have severely curtailed American exports.

    The Islamic slave trade in Europe cost over 60 million Christian lives.

    The fact that you don’t know any of this, let alone have recourse to any real rebuttal proves how Jewified the historiography on this issue is.
    Posting a patheric meme is not a sign of any intelligence.

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Seraphim
  80. chuckywiz says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Eid Al Doha, sacrificing the animals is a tradition long before Muhammad. Prophet Abraham, according to Muslim beliefs tried to sacrifice Isak or Ishmael (depending whose belief) to show his devotion or obedience. Human sacrifices in the ancient civilizations were a norm to please the gods for rain, fertility, what you have it. Ancient civilizations in the Americas practiced similar. This practice is going to go away because at the time of Haj millions of animals are sacrificed and it becomes a management problem. So Saudis came up a capitalist idea. The pilgrims have to pay the cost of the animal and the animals will be sacrificed virtually. What, who, Where, no one dares to ask. This is total violation of the sprit of Haj.
    As far the statue of Budah, I dont see any problem. Budah is not worshiped by Muslims, however, according to Islam, Muslim should respect other religions. An if a non Muslim is worshiping idols, no problem. There Hindu and Sikh temples in Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia and many Muslim countries.
    An interesting tit bit.! Last year, I got ia a cab in Jakarta (the largest Muslim population) I, where the driver was a Muslim woman wearing Hijab and listening to Bob Marley’s song. and singing along. There goes the Western stereotype. She admitted she was a fan of Madonna.

  81. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    It’s typically a one-and-done kamikaze post

    You’re right – whoa – I should have clicked on that guy’s commenting history; looks like it was a drive-by.

    It’s typically a one-and-done kamikaze post; we’re not likely to see a rebuttal to your response.

    It’s cool with me, it simply gives me a chance to expose hyperbolic non-factual statements with citations and evidence.

    Now who could that possibly be?

    Probably the same guys that push the 270 million number which are the same guys that say Israel needs to improve its hasbara game:
    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2009/10/losing_israel_1.html

    Wa salaam.

  82. @Priss Factor

    … Muslims believed ALL THE WORLD must be converted, often by the sword or guns.

    Even non-Muslim historians completely reject this hackneyed canard.

    Islamic suzerainty was plainly distinguishable from others for its protection of religious liberty. There were rare exceptions to this, but on the whole, the historical record is clear that Muslims did not seek to convert by coercion.

  83. Robjil says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Russian Empire was tolerate of Muslims. The Tartars, who conquered Russia in the 1200s, still live quite close to Moscow. They are a Muslim people.

    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/archived/spiritofthings/catherine-the-great-and-russia%E2%80%99s-muslims/6670460

    Particularly after she conquered the Crimea and the Caucuses, there were many Muslims in the border regions. These Muslim subjects’ natural religious loyalties lay with the Ottoman Empire—Russia’s imperial rival. In order to prevent sedition and retain strong defences, Catherine was obliged to establish herself as a protector of religious freedom.

    Under her policy of religious toleration, which forbade the demolition of mosques and the forced conversion of Muslims to Christianity, Muslims came to accept the empire as the ‘House of Islam’ (dar al Islam), allowing them to fulfil their religious obligations.

    ‘By the early 20th Century, the Muslim population of the Romanov Empire was larger than under the Ottoman sultan,’ notes Robert Crews, author of The Prophet and the Tsar.

    • Replies: @Robjil
  84. anon[277] • Disclaimer says:

    Dr. Barrett, thanks for shedding more light on Gordon Duff’s report of ‘infestiture’ cults. Your new information is that the report is based on documentary evidence and not hearsay. Can Gordon specify the memo’s classification level? Originating agency? Distribution? Approximate date? With that info it’s a straightforward muckrock project.

    The rebuttable presumption must naturally be that the officially-reported doctrine came from Gottlieb’s shop, after his public renunciation, embellishing the grain of truth you found in your research with scifi hype. It would be very interesting if it preceded or coincided with the Liquid Sky/electroclash subculture, which propagated internationally in the chosen media of Miles Copeland Jr. and Dulles himself.

  85. Robjil says:
    @Robjil

    Here is something about the Tartars near Moscow in Russia.

    https://theculturetrip.com/europe/russia/articles/an-introduction-to-russias-tatar-people/

    The Tatars mainly inhabit country along the Volga River in central European Russia. The Volga-side region of Tatarstan is Russia’s heartland of Tatar culture, which is still proudly practised and preserved. Kazan Tatars make up about half the population of Tatarstan in modern times. There are still many ancient Tatar relics in Tatarstan today, scattered across the republic and in Kazan as well. Kazan’s Kremlin is World Heritage-listed by UNESCO due to the fact that it is the last remaining Tatar fortress and dates back to the 16th century when Tatarstan fell to the Russian Empire. And as Islamic people, the region has many majestic mosques scattered through it, including Kazan’s Kul-Sharif

    .

  86. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:
    @Agent76

    Really appreciate Molyfaux when he sobs about how harshly
    the world treats Israel.

    Cries and BS with the best of ’em.

  87. Talha says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    Your response is laughable.

    No your numbers are – you would be a laughing stock if you tried to defend those kinds of numbers from any forensic angle in front of serious historians.

    Islam began as a bloddbat

    Nope. In fact, the early expansions were far less bloody than the Roman/Greek-Persian wars:
    “For the majority of seventh-century Syriac Christians, the most involved geopolitical changes came not with the Islamic Conquests of the 630s but from the Byzantine-Persian wars from 602 to 628, which were much more destructive than the Islamic conquests. With a few notable exceptions, during the Islamic conquests the majority of sustained military engagements took place in the countryside, minimizing civilian casualties. Most cities capitulated to Arab forces without prolonged siege. Material evidence of the Islamic conquests is minimal, and the conquests did not leave the type of destruction layers associated with much more devastating invasions. Instead, inscriptional evidence witnessed continual church occupation and even new construction throughout the period.”
    Envisioning Islam: Syriac Christians and the Early Muslim World (Univ. Pennsylvania Press)

    The late Patricia Crone was an expert in contemporaneous non-Muslim sources of the time (https://www.ias.edu/scholars/patricia-crone):
    “What Donner turns out to mean is simply the well-known fact that the Muslims did not engage in systematic destruction of towns, churches, and other religious buildings, and that they were not out to impose their religion by force….If all Donner means to affirm is that the Muslim conquests were relatively swift and surgical operations that left urban life, religious communities, and complex organization intact, then he is simply affirming the conventional view. But what has that got to do with ecumenicalism? The Muslims did not engage in systematic destruction of towns or religious buildings, regardless of whether they were monotheist, Zoroastrian, or (in Harran) pagan.”
    https://2010-14.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/29094/Patricia-Crone-Dismembers-Fred-Donner

    The Islamic slave trade in Europe cost over 60 million Christian lives.

    Utter rubbish – give a citation from a credible source for this claim and not some random garage-band website.

    The fact that you don’t know any of this

    The fact is that it is all made up.

    how Jewified the historiography on this issue is.

    Show YOUR sources and I’m fairly certain I can point out the Israeli-first/Zionist connections in a heartbeat.

    Posting a patheric meme is not a sign of any intelligence.

    I was laughing at your claims (without any credible citations) and still am.

    Peace.

    • Thanks: AnonStarter
    • Replies: @Robjil
  88. J.Hart says:
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    Slaves were still held in several Northern states as late as 1865, so your point falls apart.

  89. @Kevin Barrett

    Good grief. Karen Armstrong?

    I’ll see you a million Karens and raise you a Bat Ye’Or “The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam”

    And I’d keep my stack of Andrew Bostom books close by….

    Why have almost all Muslim-ruled lands always featured large, thriving Christian and other religious minority communities, whereas virtually no Christian lands ever tolerated any Muslim communities at all?

    “The myth of the Andalusian Paradise ” might help you control your psychosis.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  90. Ahoy says:

    Τhere is a higher order than Trump and already has sent down to earth his agent NEMESIS to take care of every one of them. All these jihadists, taliban, head choppers whatever you call Soros’s army will not see the light of the day after the latest desecration of His House.

    By the way, does any body know where are the Clintons, the Obamas, Soros?

  91. Rurik says:
    @Priss Factor

    Russians have the goulash covenant,

    Goulash is a Hungarian cuisine!

    Otherwise, you’re pretty much spot on Priss, as usual. (other than the rather course language, that I would never stoop to ; )

    Let each race know itself and understand its advantages and disadvantages vis-a-vis other races. Under humanist race-ism, Europeans would not go into racial supremacist mode and conquer other nations. No, they would try to defend and preserve what is uniquely theirs on their own homelands.

    If it were only possible to get our Muslim friends here to agree to this simply and obvious principle for human happiness and peace.

    Instead, Kevin seems to demand that the only way forward is massive and transformational non-white Muslim immigration into Europe and North America, (presumably Oceana and beyond as well). And anything short of that is ‘racism’, or ‘white supremacism’.

    If the West could but make common cause with Islam, (and vice-versa) by ending the Eternal Wars for Israel, and repudiating Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians, and demanding self-determination for ALL people, then there could be peace in our time.

    But too often Islam makes common cause with Zionism, as it demands to colonize the ((dying)) West. And as it does so, it is going to (understandably and deservedly) be met with hostility, and ultimately rage and blowback.

    So far the wars against Islam are unjustified and all based on zio-lies, but if Islam (or anyone else ; ) considers it their right to colonize the West, then any resistance to that, (including violent resistance) will not only be justified, but a sacred duty and an honor.

    @3.Kevin Barrett says

    Muslims have been more tolerant than Christians. (Yes, I know that isn’t saying much.)

    Well I for one, am not all that enamored by this ‘tolerance’, Christian, Muslim or otherwise.

    It seems to be that the manifest problems of our times, is that we’re all so fucking tolerant of things no self-respecting people should be tolerant of. (as this article keenly states).

    Tearing down statues and looting and burning are not something a sane society tolerates.

    Promoting homosexuality and genderless identity politics, is not something a sane society tolerates.

    Wars based on lies, torture camps and a borderless “nation”, are not things a sane society tolerates.

    First class and second class citizens, codified into law, based on racial skin tone (affirmative action), is not something a sane people tolerate.

    The core of our societal melt-down, and the evils manifest in every niche of our dying civilization, are all a direct consequence of a people too cowed by political correctness to stop tolerating the things that are destroying them.

    We need to stop tolerating wars based on lies.

    Torture

    Genderless idiocy

    State-imposed racial class systems.

    Open borders.

    Wall Street uber-looting.

    and a culture based on worshiping the lowest, most crass, most ignominious and least noble elements of society.

    But then I suppose all of that will just be put down to a crazed ‘white nationalist/supremacist’, living in his mother’s basement, goose stepping in his underwear, Sieg Hiel saluting, and wanting to impose his ‘Patriarchy’ on all the poor, oppressed Jews and blacks and Muslims and POC and everyone else, because he needs to blame all his failures on a scape goat, just like his hero Adolf…

    blah, blah, blah…

    So now I’ve even saved the trolls from having to spew their ‘woke’ reply.

    How generous and thoughtful is that?!

  92. Robjil says:

    The Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth was also tolerant of the Muslim Tartars.

    https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/15604991.pdf

    In 1569, the parliament (s e j m) of nobilitygave formal permission for the constructionof mosques and Tatar schools. The numberof Tatars in 1591 was estimated at between60,000-70,000, and mosques counted 400.2A 1631 census listed more than 100,000 Ta-tars in Poland. The Tatars enjoyed religious toleranceand maintained contacts with Islamic cen-tres abroad. Many Tatar customs becamepart of Polish tradition, especially amongthe Polish nobility; their traditional longrobe (k o n t u s z), fur cap (k o l p a k) and curvedsword (k a r a b e l a) were imitations of the garbworn by the Crimean Tatars.

    This is about the Tartars in Poland today.

    https://notesfrompoland.com/2020/06/01/polands-600-year-old-muslim-community-launches-website-to-educate-on-islam-and-challenge-stereotypes/

    The Muslim Religious Union in Poland (MZR) has launched a new Polish-language portal to provide online resources on Islam and to challenge common stereotypes about the community.

    The MZR, established in 1925, is the oldest Muslim organisation in Poland. It represents in particular the Lipka Tatars, who have lived in the borderlands between what is now Poland, Lithuania and Belarus since the 14th century, making them one of Europe’s oldest continuously existing Muslim communities.

  93. There was the Reformation. Now, there is the Deformation.

    Reformation was often violent and bloody, but its core themes were God and holiness.
    In contrast, the Deformation is vile and rotten to the core. It’s about idolatry of the Negro, the most savage race, because he be best at basketball, rapping, and bumping-n-grinding. It’s about celebration of homo-mania and tranny lunacy. It is about mandatory submission to Jews as the new master race and god-folks.

    The Reformation believe in a Power and Truth above man. The current Deformation says the holy three of Negroes, homos, and Jews possess(indeed monopolize) the highest authority, and all of humanity must kneel, bow, and grovel before them. What about blacks committing the most crime and destroying entire societies? Never mind, ‘black lives matter’ and get on your knees. What about Jews in supremacist mode spreading wars, wrecking entire nations , looting entire economies, and spreading the culture of degeneracy? Never mind, just suck up to Jews as the eternal holy holocaust people and obey them… or else you’re an ‘anti-semite’. What about Homos being obsessed with vanity & narcissism and indulging in fecal-penetration and spreading disease while trannies are messed in the head and go for penis-cutting to get fake vaginas? Never mind, just celebrate all they do, and even drag your children to drag-queen story hours… or else you are a ‘homophobe’ or ‘trannyphobe’.
    And being a porny slut with tattoos and piercings(and green hair) is the new ’empowerment’ for women.
    An entire generation raised on demented violent video games, Tarantino gore-fests of sadism & nihilism(despite the recent partial redemption with ONCE UPON A TIME… IN HOLLYWOOD), retarded rap music, easily accessible porn even for kiddies & dick/vagina pic-‘sexting’ on smart phones, endless homo propaganda as the New Normal, vilification of whiteness as the new devil, ugly MMA filled with deranged lunatics with tattoos(made worse by female MMA slug-fests), erasure of heritage, and ends-justify-the-means nihilism(made worse by having ends that can never be met). In the case of Emma Sulkowicz, acting porny was the new puritanism. She actually made porn to make a ‘moral’ statement. And how fitting in our Deformed Age that George Floyd the junkie porn actor has been elevated as black moses-christ? But then, how surreal that the opportunistic sleazebag Donald Trump was embraced by so many as the nationalist hero. It’s like we’re living in a cartoon world.
    The so-called new ‘left’ is about Negro Worship and Globo-Homo-mania or Queertianity financed by super-rich globalist capitalists. And why are Negroes and Homos favored over others? They found some of the biggest successes under capitalism. Blacks in sports and music, and homos in fashion and design. Classic Leftism, for all its problems, was humanist and saw value in all lives. The new ‘left’ pretends to be about justice, but its distorted and deformed notion of Truth rests on idolatrous capital valuation. Since Negros have value in sports/pop and homos have value in fashion/fanfare/pageantry, they matter more than other peoples. Palestinians, like ‘white trash’, mean nothing because they have little capital value. That is the new ‘leftism’. It’s no wonder that the proglodyte mobs don’t attack Apple or Google headquarters. Or California agro-business for exploiting brown labor. As long as Big Capital wave the Noble Negro and Holy Homo banner, they have ‘god on their side’.

    Personally, I prefer Protestantism for conscience and Catholicism for culture. While the puritanical streak in Protestantism can be annoying(and even dangerous), the Protestant model is closer to true conscience because it’s about individual agency and accountability in relation to God or the Truth. Instead of relying on the bureaucratic middleman and rigid dogma, you yourself need to peer into your own heart and make amends before God or Truth. On some level, one must be one’s own priest.

    But culturally, the Protestantist outlook can be destructive toward all that is deemed false or idolatrous. In seeking what is truly true, it has little tolerance for all that is deemed wicked, wrong, or deviant. It can lead to a cultural drabness. (Today, things are worse because the New Puritanism is in service to utter puerility. It is ‘pueritanism’. Infantile idolatry of the trashy and trivial has the highest ‘spiritual’ value in our Deformist age.)
    On the cultural level, the Catholicist mindset is preferable, and one doesn’t need to be a Catholic to cultivate and practice this approach. Catholicism found a compromise between the glories of paganism and the New Faith. It came to revere and preserve tradition in the arts and cultural expression EVEN WHEN those objects didn’t conform to the spiritual ideals of the dominant Faith. Thus, it was multi-iconographic than iconoclastic in search of purity.

    Martin Scorsese, in his two deeply personal documentaries about cinema — the American and the Italian — exhibited a Catholicist perspective on film history. They was criticality but also empathy and reverence. Sure, some of the past works may now seem ‘racist’ or were made under the Fascist regime, but they too are part of film history and should be studied, preserved, and appreciated. If certain narratives were overlooked or repressed in the past, the right way is to make new movies that address those matters than destroy old films. (In other words, don’t burn all prints of Otto Preminger’s EXODUS but makes some movies about Nakba from the Palestinian perspective.) After all, if puritanism takes hold in the cultural sphere, there is no end to the excuses for attacking, denouncing, and destroying just about anything. Also, puritanism can go into micro-purist mode, seeking out micro-aggressions even after macro-offenders have been banished. Iconoclasm can go into germ-freak mode. (PC is oddly quasi-fascist. Even though it denounces fascism as a kind of pornography of power devoid of classic idealism, PC sees everything in terms of Power and No Power. It is less interested in right and wrong than Power vs No Power. If your side has no power, then empowerment BY ANY MEANS is justified. It’s no wonder Jews, homos, and blacks, along with feminists, have gotten so nihilistic. Jews no longer care about ideology. All that matters is More Jewish Power. Feminism used to side with socialists, but they now celebrate any woman who reaches the top, even if she serves US imperialism or predatory capitalism. Blacks just want blacks to be on top regardless of the ideology or agenda they’re serving. So, who cares if Obama destroyed entire nations? He be a black dude who be calling the shots, sheeeeeiiit. Or consider the feminist praise of that vile movie THE LAST SEDUCTION. The femme fatale bitch in it is just awful and preys on innocent victims, but hey, it’s FEMALE empowerment. In a way, the ‘anti-fascists’ really envied fascism because the ‘pornographics of power’ meant anything was possible without moral restraint. It’s no wonder Nietzsche and Foucault became such neo-leftist icons in the postwar period. Classic leftism meant progressives must seek power in service to a set of ideals. Thus, there were brakes on empowerment. Attainment of power had to be justified on moral grounds. But once identity politics and power-for-power’s sake came to define the new proggism, all that mattered was More Power for Myself or My People by any means necessary and for whatever ends. Jews really set the template in this as the Jewish Left and Jewish Right converged on More Jewish Power. Notice how Bernie Sanders eventually turned out to be a Jewish Supremacist First and socialist second because he willfully took a dive and chose not to lead a potentially true leftist movement against the System controlled by Jewish supremacists.)

    Now, morality, in seeking what is true, cannot hold too many conflicting values together. If you’re opposed to slavery, your morality cannot say “slavery is not okay here, but it’s okay over there.” You should oppose slavery as a principle. However, culture isn’t only about morality. It’s a remembrance of the past, the realization and understanding that ideas, values, and attitudes changed over time, a sense that we can’t expect other times and other cultures to think and feel just as we do in the righteous moment.
    Thus, cultural(and historical) sense has to be more tolerant and empathetic than the moral sense, which by its nature cannot be too tolerant. Ideally, one should be morally righteous but culturally broad in the appreciation of the arts. Surely, even an atheist should be able to appreciate Angkor Wat, Temples of India, Mosques of Arabia, and Cathedrals of Europe. Likewise, even an ‘anti-racist’ should see merit in THE BIRTH OF A NATION, even an anti-communist should see value in BATTLESHIP POTEMKIN, even sympathizers with American Indians should recognize the glory of American Westerns, and even a Jew should see value in Richard Wagner’s operas and Leni Riefenstahl’s two landmark ‘documentaries'(which are more like ‘propamentaries’ or propaganda-documentaries). And even an anti-Jewish person should see value in Gustav Mahler, Mendelssohn, and Mel Brooks.

    The current Deformation is the worst of all worlds. Not only does the Rage of the Moment dictate moral puritanism that is utterly destructive and demented but the supposed morality is really an immorality. The truth sought in the Reformation was about God and Holiness. One could disagree with the interpretations and arguments of the opposing sides, but at their core it was about genuine search for and defense of sanctity as they understood it. At the very least, they knew better than to worship the cult of man and things. Even Catholics accused by Protestants for idolatry understood that God, Jesus, and Truth were infinitely higher than anything made of stone by human hands.
    In contrast, the Deformation cannot conceive of anything higher than George Floyd as Magic Negro. Or consider when Michael Jackson died. You’d think it was the death of god hisself. Deformation cannot conceive of anything holier than drag queens and homos prancing about by hogging the word ‘pride’. Deformation cannot think of a higher loyalty that ‘Muh Israel’ and ‘We stand with Israel(as it sucks out the life of remaining Palestinian communities in West Bank). The Deformation isn’t merely about tolerance of vices, such as gambling, but promotion of vice as the new virtue, e.g. “Look, gambling is morally justified because it provides reparations for them Indians, thus washing away America’s sins!” (How about a casino at Auschwitz?) The Desert Inn Has Heart, the Desert Inn Has Heart. Las Vegas, the Christmas Place To Be!!! Homosexual vanity isn’t merely to be tolerated and contained in the homo community. It has to be ‘spiritualized’ and its symbols must hang in churches!

    We’ve been fed this narrative about linear human progress, but spiritually and morally, are people in the West better off in the crazy 21st century than during the Reformation? Is it ‘more progress’ to worship Mammon, Magic Negroes, Tooty Homos, and Insane Jewish Supremacists? We were told that mankind went from religion and superstition to reason and sense. So, where is rationality in elevating the criminal Negro up on the spiritual pedestal? Where is the sense in supporting Zionist lunatics in their maniacal schemes? Where is the science in saying a man with penis & balls and wig on his head is really a ‘woman’? This sounds more like the Age of Endarkenment than Enlightenment.

    If this keeps up, even Scorsese’s two magisterial documentaries will have to be scrapped in the spirit of ‘canceling’ bad culture because too many works discussed can be associated with this-ism, that-ism, or whatever-ism. For the longest time, the Left made kids read Arthur Miller’s CRUCIBLE as a warning against authoritarianism, ideological puritanism, and the culture of paranoia. But the warning has now become the blueprint. But then, the same happened with Kafka’s THE TRIAL and THE CASTLE. The way Jewish oligarchs are behaving with their power, we must all navigate like K in the novels. We must deal with repression with vague rules where goal posts are constantly moved. We’re rendered like the anti-hero in COOL HAND LUKE who must keep digging and digging. But then, there was something disingenuous about Jews like Arthur Miller. He attacked the political puritanism of the American Right in defense of communists whose puritanism and purge-culture were through the roof. This suggests that, in essence, Jews resisted repression not for the ultimate goal of more freedom for everyone but to amass the power to repress all others.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5gIcDSo2dA

  94. Robjil says:
    @Talha

    One of the Persian wars included Jewish rule in Jerusalem. It was quite cruel, barbaric, and destructive. This is one of the reasons that Christians of Jerusalem welcomed the Muslims in Jerusalem. They thought the Muslims would better protect them from the Jews.

    Here is how the Jewish rebels acted as rulers of Jerusalem in 614. This is the destruction that you are talking about from the Persian wars. It was not the Persians after all who were doing the destroying. The Persians stopped the murderous frenzy of the Jewish rebels.

    http://www.israelshamir.net/English/mamilla.htm

    In 614 local Palestinian Jews allied with their Babylonian co-religionists and assisted the Persians in their conquest of the Holy Land. 26,000 Jews participated in the onslaught. In the aftermath of the Persian victory, the Jews perpetrated a massive holocaust of the Gentiles of Palestine. They burned the churches and the monasteries, killed monks and priests, burned books. The beautiful basilica of Fishes and Loaves in Tabgha, the Ascension on the Mount of Olives, St Stephen opposite Damascus Gate and the Hagia Sion on Mt Zion are just at the top of the list of perished edifices. Indeed, very few churches survived the onslaught. The Great Laura of St Sabas, tucked away in the bottomless Ravine of Fire (Wadi an-Nar) was saved by its remote location and steep crags. The Church of the Nativity miraculously survived: when Jews commanded its destruction, the Persians balked. They perceived the Magi mosaic above the lintel as the portrait of Persian kings.

    The destruction of buildings was not the only thing that the Jewish rebels did. The massacres of Christians by the Jewish rebels was the main reason that the Christians welcomed Muslim protection a few years later in 640.

    This devastation was not the worst crime. When Jerusalem surrendered to the Persians, thousands of local Christians became prisoners of war and were herded to the Mamilla Pool area. The Israeli archaeologist Ronny Reich writes:

    They were probably sold to the highest bidder. According to some sources, the Christian captives at Mamilla Pond were bought by Jews and were then slain on the spot.

    The Oxford Professor Henry Hart Milman’s History of the Jews describes it in stronger terms:

    It had come at length, the long-expected hour of triumph and vengeance; and the Jews did not neglect the opportunity. They washed away the profanation of the holy city in Christian blood. The Persians are said to have sold the miserable captives for money. The vengeance of the Jews was stronger than their avarice; not only did they not scruple to sacrifice their treasures in the purchase of these devoted bondsmen, they put to death all they had purchased at a lavish price. It was a rumour of the time that 90,000 perished.

    • Thanks: Rurik
    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @Malla
  95. The sheer idiocy of this lies in the fact that figures from the past are never perfectly in tune with our current mores, values, shibboleths, etc.

    It’s almost axiomatic that they will be heretical in some sense and should be obliterated. Given the outlook currently prevailing, we can never consistently honor anyone or anything except ourselves, right now.

    • Agree: Talha
  96. Karen Armstrong? O, good grief.

    You can have 1 million Karen Armstrongs and I’ll take one Bat Ye’or “The Decline of Eastern Christianity under Islam.”

    When one reads the New Testament (maybe you have but you didn’t understand it)one discovers many towns, once Christian, that no longer exist as that name.

    Why?

    Tolerant Islam….

    The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise

    https://legiochristi.com/static/lit/The_Myth_of_the_Andalusian_Paradise.pdf

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  97. @SafeNow

    If that’s their response, you never had anything more than what your brain mistakenly assigned to them. You’ve lost nothing but illusion. Shed them and move on. This applies everywhere, to everyone—work, love, sex…

    Never waste time in futility or mourn the loss of nothingness. Exit on the first inarguable sign, so you aren’t enslaved by your projections. Go gut. And as Jake Gittes always says when I play Chinatown:

    What can I tell you, kid? You’re right. When you’re right, you’re right, and you’re right.

    • Replies: @SafeNow
  98. J.Hart: “Slaves were still held in several Northern states as late as 1865, so your point falls apart.”

    See? These idiots are desperate.

    What’s the point of this objection? It’s just a lame attempt to cloud the issue. I think we can assume that the Christian fanatics who instigated and conducted the War to abolish slavery knew that, once won, it would then be abolished throughout the US. That should go without saying.

  99. Key difference of BLM and Antifa with Taliban and ISIS is that the US has history that is shorter by thousands of years than the history of Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria. Other than that, bandits are bandits.

  100. Richard B says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Myths, rituals, contagious emotions, collective behaviors, articles of faith, criteria for in-group out-group distinctions—such are the components of religion, and “secular” people are by and large just as religious as “religious” people.

    That’s exactly right.

    The great and shamefully, and deliberately, neglected cultural historian Morse Peckham (1914-1993) late of U of Penn, once said,

    As religions crumble, the religious impulse gets stronger, not weaker, and moves to politics.

    This would explain the impulse to continue finding new and improved ways of blaming Christianity.

    That why the enlighted secular elite can continue to ignore the fact that their achievements and financial success was made possible by the fact that the freedoms they enjoy (the same freedoms they are taking away from us) emerged from a Christian culture.

    Liberal Democracy could never have come from The Middle East or Asia, ever.

    Or, as an Israeli friend likes to say, “Israel, a Democracy? Ha! How could anything Jewish be Democratic?”

    The important point is that the hostile elite, the left, globalists and their proxies, or whatever else one wants to call this cabal of blood-thirsty fanatics, are far more intolerant.

    After all, unlike ancient Christians and even Muslims today, those in the West have accumulated more precise knowledge about the human race than ever before in history.

    And, with the Internet, we have instant access to that knowledge.

    And they don’t want to know it?

    Why?

    Because it would reduce their entire explanatory system to rubble.

    That’s why!

    They’re not “Progressive!” They’re Regressive.

    Once one looks beyond the surface, it becomes perfectly clear that what we’re really witnessing is nothing less than

    The Pyrrhic Victory Of The Hostile Elite

  101. gay troll says:

    Christians must love this iconoclasm; destroying and obfuscating history is the very reason for their existence. Not that the Jews or Muslims are any less scourges of culture. When I hear people bemoaning the downfall of “Western” culture all I can think is that we have been here before, at the mercy of the elites and their designs for the future. If one monstrous lie is replaced by another what exactly will we lose?

    • Replies: @Monotonous Languor
  102. SafeNow says:
    @schnellandine

    Okay, that’s good advice, thank you, about how to deal with not being loved because one is unwoke. And the advice from Chinatown is excellent. But here is Philip Larkin, a curmudgeon of a poet, I concede, and I will try to go with Chinatown, but here is Larkin:

    “By now, all’s wrong. In everyone there sleeps
    A sense of life lived according to love.
    To some it means the difference they could make
    By loving others, but across most it sweeps
    As all they might have done had they been loved.”

    Signing-off from California, where friends and family have lost affection and respect for unwoke me…my ”statue” is down…. if ever they really had these.

  103. R2b says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    I have personally experienced a muslim damage of a Christian work of art, The Holy family. I wont go into details, and I’m not going to show the picture of that vandalism, but save it for the future. I dont now all the specifics, and history here. But I am, in Christian tradition on the side, that opposes the internal, ”reformed” judaizing iconoclast movement. And what I have witnessed, is contrary to what you, Kevin Barrett, claims.

  104. Richard B says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    Even arch-Zionist Islamophobe uber-Orientalist Bernard Lewis admits it.

    But of course he would.

    That reference is so embarrassingly self-refuting for a man of your intelligence.

    It proves that you have, for all of your intelligence, inflexibly rigid ideological blinders.

    And I’m saying this as someone who’s not even Christian.

  105. When the religion of peace is unwelcome:

    “Family Research Council Denounces Christian ‘Genocide’ in Nigeria”

    “Gilbert cites a number of the most recent examples of the ongoing carnage, such as the Islamist massacre of 81 people during an attack on Foduma Kolomaiya village in northeast Nigeria earlier this month as well as twin attacks that killed 20 soldiers and more than 40 civilians in Borno State on June 13.

    Similarly, jihadists recently gunned down a Nigerian Christian pastor along with his wife who were working on their farm in Taraba State, leaving orphaned the couple’s eight children, ages 1 to 19, Gilbert notes.

    In what is being noted as systematic direct war against Christianity in Nigeria, pastors, Christian leaders and seminarians are either being kidnapped or killed every week,” read a statement from the Hausa Christians Foundation following the murders. “Christians in Nigeria have been the target of many attacks by the vicious Boko Haram jihadist Islamist terrorists, herdsmen attacks and many other kidnappings in recent times.”

    https://www.breitbart.com/africa/2020/06/25/family-research-council-denounces-christian-genocide-in-nigeria/

    • Replies: @Talha
  106. R2b says:
    @Wood Stove

    Thank you Wood Stove, then we now that Dolph was a Darwinian racist anti-Christ. But then again, ”Table-Talks”, how reliable are they? Can you inform us moore on that? Or are there other sources? But we can now be sure, that the National-socialists are un-Christian, and very similar to their supposed opponents.

    • Replies: @Wood Stove
  107. Congratulations to George Floyd one month drug free!

  108. Talha says:
    @Jack McArthur

    Christians in Nigeria have been the target of many attacks by the vicious Boko Haram jihadist Islamist terrorists

    Yup – nobody is talking about it probably because there simply is no geo-strategic reason to do anything about it. Nigeria is an oil producing nation but that is all near the southern coast. There are no oil fields anywhere close to where these things are happening in the Northern regions.

    Boko Haram (while not in full control of it) probably operates in a wider swath of territory now than Daesh did in their prime. And they are at least – if not more – extreme than Daesh:

    Peace.

  109. @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    Dear Sympathy for the Drivel,

    Bat Ye’or, a.k.a. Gisele Littman, is an axe-grinding Egyptian Jew whose work is purely polemical. A sample quote of hers:

    The Arab invaders arrived in [Jerusalem in] the 7th century, devastated the country, massacred and enslaved the population and expropriated the Jewish and Christian indigenous populations, as is related by contemporaneous sources.

    Anyone with even an elementary understanding of the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem would find this sentence risible. She has no academic credentials in the field she approaches.

    As for Fernandez-Morera, here’s what one scholar specializing in the intellectual history and literature of Jews, Christians and Muslims in medieval Spain had to say about his work:

    When he does deal with primary sources (always in translation), he does not do it well or with methodological awareness or skill. He selects verses from the Qur’ān that support his argument and ignore those that cut against it (178). And despite his obsession with Mālikī law, he reads them in isolation and not with any of the interpretive or analytical tradition that governed how Andalusi Muslims understood those verses; at various points in the book he claims that practical or applied religion and law don’t matter in the face of what is written in text. [emphasis added]

    That last assertion is quite significant, since it’s well known that much of what was written into Islamic jurisprudence during the Middle Ages was not routinely applied, if at all. If Fernandez-Morera’s argument hinges strictly upon said texts as evidentiary of application, he clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

    From the same critic:

    The only way that Fernández-Morera is able to sustain his argument that life under Islam in Spain was just horrendous is by ignoring many relevant primary sources, ignoring the literary conventions that governed reading and writing in the Middle Ages, and ignoring vast swaths of scholarship and historiographic models that offer a nuanced take on the period. Every chapter in the book replicates these and more errors, missteps, and misinterpretations.

  110. @Roderick Spode

    The mass slaughter and expulsion of Rohingya Muslims by Buddhist monks is a textbook example of scapegoating and human sacrifice. It perfectly illustrates Girard’s thesis.

  111. @polistra

    Indeed it is a false concern. It represents what David Brooks in todays NY Times column identified as the “Social Justice Movement” that is dedicated to the propostion “that if you can change the cultural, strucures, you can change society.”

    This notion, of course, turns Marx upside down by making the superstructure the structure of society rather than the material means of production that is essential producing and reproducing the necessities of life that are necessary for the continued existence of a community.

    I am reminded about how this works by an incident when I attented in early 1965 one of the early anit-Vietnam war teach-ins at the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee. I was prompted to speak up to say that to build a movement to do this it is essential to focus on the economic foundation of the war and whose interests it supported and how it opposed the interests of working people who had to be enlisted in the fight.

    Somebody got up and with great moral indignation declared the issue was the war was a moral outrage that we don’t have time for that because the war had to be stopped today that was met by loud applause.

    I left. The audience was delusional.

    The war finally ended 10 years later. And nothing about the fundanmentals that prompted it was changed.

  112. @gay troll

    Does any of your drivel actually refer to anything specific? Is it supposed to mean something? Instead it’s just typical oversimplified generic nonsense from a mindless leftist, standard fare parroted directly from the NPC echo chamber.

    No doubt as a self-proclaimed gay troll you’re so proud of the thing you’ve deliberately turned yourself into, ready and willing to shove it in the faces of every traditionalist you’ve designated as public enemy number one in your hate-filled excuse for an existence. But you and all of your feeble schtick are just about as trite as trite can be in this world, which puts it somewhere close to comatose.

    So go off to your little gay corner and keep pretending you’re something special. Good luck with all that, chuck-0.

    • Agree: trickster
    • Replies: @gay troll
  113. Bill P says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    I’d call it more of an ethnic cleansing, like the Guangzhou massacre of the 9th century.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzhou_massacre

    As for Buddhist human sacrifice, there’s no doubt some nominally Buddhist communities in China sacrificed children to deities until fairly recently. However, I doubt it has much to do with Buddhism proper, but rather the heathen folk religions they never abandoned.

    One of the concessions the Norse Icelanders obtained from the Church on their conversion was the right to continue the practice of exposing unwanted infants.

    I really don’t know what it is about humans that makes us so jealously guard the right to kill our children. Perhaps it is related to original sin: We gain knowledge, we comprehend our mortality, and our children remind us of our progression toward that final end. Maybe people feel that if they eliminate their children, they can extend their youth and forestall their decline and demise.

    • Replies: @Talha
  114. Robjil says:

    Something that Protestants, Jews and Muslims forget is that figurative art is human art.

    It is part of the human tradition.

    In ancient Egypt figurative art was formalized.

    https://www.pbs.org/howartmadetheworld/episodes/human/egypt/

    Egyptian artisans lived and worked in groups, where originality was not highly prized. Images of the human body were regular and repeated, and nothing about them was exaggerated. Instead, the images were schematic and conceptual; schematic in the sense that they belonged to a larger plan, and conceptual in that the artist was more concerned with cataloging the parts of the body – one head, two arms, two legs, etc – then the actual appearance of the body. The Egyptians chose then to represent the human body from its clearest angle, and within a grid system that was applied to a plastered wall by dipping a length of string in red paint, stretching it tight, and then twanging it against the surface to be painted.

    To the ancient Egyptians, their schematic and conceptual image of the body mapped within a grid system was a divine gift that would be spoiled by any deviation from the norm.

    Figurative rock paintings are the earliest examples of humans communicating their inspirations to other humans. They were picture words. Words came later. Words expressing figurative art visions can also be considered figurative art.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/journey-oldest-cave-paintings-world-180957685/

    Such sophisticated thinking was a huge competitive advantage, helping us to cooperate, survive in harsh environments and colonize new lands. It also opened the door to imaginary realms, spirit worlds and a host of intellectual and emotional connections that infused our lives with meaning beyond the basic impulse to survive. And because it enabled symbolic thinking—our ability to let one thing stand for another—it allowed people to make visual representations of things that they could remember and imagine. “We couldn’t conceive of art, or conceive of the value of art, until we had higher order consciousness,” says Benjamin Smith, a rock art scholar at the University of Western Australia. In that sense, ancient art is a marker for this cognitive shift: Find early paintings, particularly figurative representations like animals, and you’ve found evidence for the modern human mind.

  115. @Priss Factor

    The problem with all civilizations is that they breed less civilized people and attract less civilized people.

    Mother Nature doesn’t like civilizations.

    • Replies: @Talha
  116. Talha says:
    @Bill P

    I really don’t know what it is about humans that makes us so jealously guard the right to kill our children.

    Caring for an infant that will be a “burden” or disproportionate “drain on resources” or has little chance for survival is not a good Darwinian choice to make; other animals do this also:

    It makes sense from a purely material “survival of the fittest” perspective. Some animals (like rabbit mothers) will eat the runt of the litter (or even all of their babies, if scared they won’t survive).

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  117. Awash says:
    @Priss Factor

    The UN is based on the principle of sovereignty for all its members. Countries can determine their economic, political and cultural systems. Invasions and annexations are prohibited.

    A few powerful countries have no respect for these principles. The UN is powerless against these forces.

    But still the principle of self-determination is widely accepted. Recasting this principle in terms of racism is not helpful.

    • Replies: @Monotonous Languor
  118. Seraphim says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    Continuing to take such a pseudo-scholar like Karen Armstrong as an authority after all her shoddy ‘science’ has been thoroughly debunked (like the myth of the ‘Andalusian Paradise’) shows that, unfortunately, the psychosis is uncontrollable. Try to talk to them about Patricia Crone, or Raymond Ibrahim and it’s like a red flag to a bull, they will go in fits of rage. Muslims cannot bear seeing that their lies are exposed.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  119. @Talha

    I personally observed a mother cat abandoning her weakest kitten, rejecting it as it made every effort to suckle. Even the use of an eyedropper to nurse it back to health didn’t work.

    was-salaam.

  120. Catiline says:
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    If it wasn’t the point of the War, how then to explain the abolition of slavery and the gift of citizenship and the vote to negroes immediately afterward?

    Not disputing your point, I’m genuinely curious and know very little about the subject, but weren’t these things you mentioned more honored in the breach than in the observance for a decent span of time after the war?

  121. @Awash

    Are you trying for comedy here? What a laugh. The UN is blatantly seeking to establish a one-world hegemony over every single human on this earth., including the detailed control of every aspect of human existence. You call that “self-determination”?

    You leftists and your blithering useful idiots really don’t know anything much in terms of logical, analytical thinking, instead you kneejerk revert to feelzgud memes, all of which are obvious lies when put under a light for inspection. Oh yes, you also trot out the technique called gaslighting, as in “who’re gonna believe, me or your lying eyes”. You do that very well, too, in an absurd attempt to not only convince others of your unreality, but also most importantly yourselves.

  122. trickster says:
    @gotmituns

    Da bros be home toking chronic !

  123. Bob Gwen says:

    I don’t care one way or the other about the statues or their historical significance. I only love watching the statues go down because the US/UK have spent so many billions elsewhere tearing down statues in other peoples countries. It’s pure schadenfreude.

  124. Seraphim says:
    @Robjil

    A detail that is generally left aside, if mentioned at all, is that there were the same Jews who perpetrated the massacres of Christians during the Persian occupation who called the Arabs and allied with them to reconquer Jerusalem. There are two contemporary Armenian chroniclers (that I have quoted several times during the incessant ‘disputations’ that took place on this site about the spread of the Islamic plague.
    Gewond (8th century):
    “Once Heraclius’ son [Constantine III, 613-641] had come to rule in his father’s stead, the Lord awakened the spirits of malevolent men so that through them the blood of Christians would be shed in vengeance, because we had sinned before the Lord God. [The Arabs] began to form brigades and mass troops against Constantine’s realm, against Judaea and Asorestan, having for support the command of their law-giver, that sower of darnel, to “Go against the countries and put them under your rule, for the plenty of the world has been given to us for our enjoyment. Eat the meat of the select ones of the countries, and drink the blood of the mighty.” The Jews were their supporters and leaders, having gone to the camp at Madiam and told them: “God promised Abraham that He would deliver up the inhabitants of the world in service [to him]; and we are his heirs and sons of the patriarch. Because of our wickedness, God became disgusted with us and lifted the scepter of kingship from us, subjecting us to the servitude of slavery. But you, too, are children of Abraham and sons of the patriarch. Arise with us and save us from service to the emperor of the Byzantines, and together we shall hold our realm.” [The Arabs] were encouraged further hearing this, and went against Judaea”
    Sebeos (8th century)
    “Then all of them assembled together, from Havilah to Shur, which is opposite Egypt [The text is corrupt here. The citation is from Genesis 25.18], and they set out from the P’arhan desert [being] twelve tribes [moving] in the order [of precedence] of the Houses of the patriarchs of their tribe. They were divided into 12,000 men, of which the sons of Israel were in their own tribes, 1,000 to a tribe, to lead them to the country of Israel. They travelled army by army in the order [of precedence] of each patriarchy: Nebaioth, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish and Kedemah [Genesis 25. 13-16]. These are the peoples of Ishmael. They reached Moabite Rabbath, at the borders of Ruben’s [land]. The Byzantine army was encamped in Arabia. [The Arabs] fell upon them suddenly, struck them with the sword and put to flight emperor Heraclius’ brother, Theodosius. Then they turned and encamped in Arabia”.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  125. Regulo says:
    @Talha

    I heard on Democracy Now that the reason the ancient Buddhist statues were demolished by the Taliban was as retaliation against a European NGO who went to Afghanistan to clean the statues. The Taliban who controlled that area, told the NGO that they could refurbish the statue but would have to pay the Taliban one million dollars. The people under their control were suffering from the ravages of war. The people were hungry; men, women, children babies. But the European NGO said; no; we’re here to clean those ancient statues[ the hell with you people, you are not on our radar of empathy]. This racism; statues mater but not living [ afghan ] suffering human beings cost a lot more then one million dollars. Betcha that NGO wished they had not been so callous; those statues would still be there. Humanity is us now.

    • Replies: @Talha
  126. @Kevin Barrett

    Really.
    Can you show us the documentation that illustrates cadres of Buddhist monks ‘scapegoating’ and ‘sacrificing’ Rohingya Muslims. Pictures, witness testimony and other forms of verification are welcome.
    The world would love to see the proof of that.
    Or is it just more ‘stuff Kevin Barrett’ said?

  127. Seraphim says:
    @Seraphim

    Another passage from the Armenian History of Sebeos (c. 31) would give us an insight in the origins of the false opposition of ‘Islam’ to ‘Zionism’:

    “Now I shall speak about the plot of the Jewish rebels, who, finding support from the Hagarenes for a short time, planned to [re]build the temple of Solomon. Locating the place called the holy of holies, they constructed [the temple] with a pedestal, to serve as their place of prayer. But the Ishmaelites envied [the Jews], expelled them from the place, and named the same building their own place of prayer. [The Jews] built a temple for their worship, elsewhere. It was then that they came up with an evil plan: they wanted to fill Jerusalem with blood from end to end, and to exterminate all the Christians of Jerusalem. Now it happened that there was a certain grandee Ishmaelite who went to worship in their private place of prayer. He encountered three of the principal Jewish men, who had just slaughtered two pigs and taken and put them [in the Muslim] place of prayer. Blood was running down the walls and on the floor of the building. As soon as the man saw them, he stopped and said something or other to them. They replied and departed. The man at once went inside to pray. He saw the wicked [sight], and quickly turned to catch the men. When he was unable to find them, he was silent and went to his place. Then many [Muslims] entered the place and saw the evil, and they spread a lament throughout the city. The Jews told the prince that the Christians had desecrated their place of prayer. The prince issued an order and all the Christians were gathered together. Just as they wanted to put them to the sword, the man came and addressed them: “Why shed so much blood in vain? Order all the Jews to assemble and I shall point out the guilty ones.” As soon as they were all assembled and [the man] walked among them, he recognized the three men whom he had previously encountered. Seizing them, [the Arabs] tried them with great severity until they disclosed the plot. And because their prince was among the Jews present, [the Arab prince] ordered that six of the principals involved in the plot be killed. He permitted the other [Jews] to return to their places”.
    One can see that the ‘Arabs’ thought nothing putting the Christians ‘to the sword’ on the flimsiest of motives.

    • Replies: @Malla
  128. Neoconned says:
    @Franz

    Hate to disagree with you on that but yeah. Sure some Christian sects have been “Talibannish” in their behavior but Muslims were noted for tolerating 3 groups: Jews, Christians, and weird zoroastrian type monotheistic sects….and that was only with those groups paying some kind of tax.

    That being said in the 1990s there used to be a joke among baptists…..it was that radical feminists were conservative and secret supporters of social values. This was construed because they agreed with the Rev Jerry Falwell on porn and other issues.

    Apparently in this new Cultural Revolution 2.0 we’re seeing SJW jihadis acting like the Taliban…..I’m assuming because it’s their weird new secular political cult religion they replaced christianity with….

  129. @AnonStarter

    on the whole, the historical record is clear that Muslims did not seek to convert by coercion.
    ——————–
    Complete and utter lie.
    Muslims routinely bullied Hindus into converting to Islam in India. This went on for over 500 years. During this process, the body count got larger and larger. As Modern India develops, religion becomes a larger and larger ballot box issue. Islamic jurists in India continue to condemn birth control and the community of Muslims continues to grow. Hindus, Buddhists and Jains continue to view this with concern.
    The track record of Islam is the worst of any religion on the face of the Earth. No religion has left more body bags behind it. Everywhere Islam went, conquest and slavery followed.
    The fact that anyone can call Islam the religion of ‘peace’ with a straight face speaks more to a generalized level of ignorance and lies by historians than any actual level of Truth.
    The real religion of peace does not enforce conversions or seek to discriminate against non-believers. In that sense, there have only been a few religions of peace: Jainism, Zoroasterism and Buddhism.

    • Replies: @Franklin Ryckaert
    , @Talha
  130. Talha says:
    @Regulo

    I didn’t know Democracy Now covered this but this was essentially the reason the Taliban leadership conveyed to the young minister when he called them.

    Peace.

  131. Seraphim says:
    @El Dato

    The book is a description of the relentless persecution of Christianity in its place of birth at the hands of a fundamentally (and programmatically) intolerant Islam, which became more and more intolerant and murderous after an initial period of opportunistic ‘tolerance’.
    Anyhow Christianity was not “forcefully implanted into European spaces”. It grew there at the same pace as in the Middle East and survived the onslaught of Islam for longer. But Christianity is not an “essentially Middle Eastern religion” (not ‘Jewish’ anyway) but a universal religion.

  132. Ivan says:
    @Ivan

    …They did NOT bother anyone…

  133. Malla says:
    @Wood Stove

    If you are interested in European paganism (especially Anglo Saxon paganism), you could have a look at this channel called ‘Survive the Jive’ by Thomas Rowsell.
    https://www.youtube.com/user/ThomasRowsell

    or Varg’s stuff

    https://www.bitchute.com/channel/LeOgEMOhozqd/
    https://www.bitchute.com/channel/hhoe86QNkKLo/

    https://thuleanperspective.com/

    • Replies: @Wood Stove
  134. Malla says:
    @Seraphim

    Oy Vey, we see the same in Iberia as well. Muslims and Jews ganging up together to get at the hated Christian Whiteys.

    https://ia802702.us.archive.org/17/items/ThePlotAgainstTheChurch_192/PlotAgainstTheCurchComplete.pdf

    “In Page 315, we read “Marcelino Menendez Pelayo, the renowned Spanish historian of the previous century, writes concerning the treachery of the Jews: “The indigenous population would have been able to show resistance to the handful of Arabs who crossed the Straits, but Witiza had disarmed them, leveled the towers to the ground and had the lances turned into harrows.”125 While the Visigoth kingdom (Iberia) disarmed under the influence of the Jewish advisors and friends of Witiza, dismantled its defence and destroyed its war power, the Jews encouraged the Musulmans to fall upon the Christian kingdom and to destroy it. Great preparations were made in North Africa for this. “”

    And now we have uncontrolled immigration to Europe and the West pushed by Jews out of which a big number belong to Muslims. And many of those Muslims are gettin influenced by Wahabism. And there are theories that the Saudi Royal family may be chosenites as well, as well as questions being asked about Wahabism itself.

  135. Talha says:
    @Priss Factor

    If all peoples thought more like Jews and formed their own special covenant with God, the world would be better off.

    So if I understand correctly; you are advocating the creation of a religion tailor-made for whites. Like you know, you’re just making it up to suit you and how you think a religion should be and how God is defined and the terms by which you interact with Him according to your own mandate.

    Either God is God and He defines the terms of your relationship and informs you what they are or you’re the one in charge and you get to do it and He just has to deal.

    I say go for it; this ought to be very, very interesting. Who is your prophet/sage? Is it you? Who are you willing die for, take a bullet for? Or will it be a steering committee? Are they elected? Who elects them? Will there be scriptures? Who will write them? Will they be set in stone or will future generations change them as they please like you wrote them as you pleased? Will they accord with modern science? And what happens when a current theory is overturned, will you update scripture?

    Make it happen; I’d love to see another contender in the ring. But, if I’m being honest, I don’t think it’ll get off the ground – prove me wrong.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  136. Malla says:
    @Robjil

    Even before Christ or Mohammed, we had Jewish mobs or Jewish funded whore mobs (like BLM & anti- fa today) showing their hatred for Aryan Civilization.

    From Prof. Revilo Oliver’s work “The Enemy Of Our Enemies Part 4”

    “There is an interesting analogy in the behavior of the Jews in ancient Alexandria, where a huge swarm of them, estimated at one million, took over a large part of the city and made it their vast and opulent ghetto, into which no Aryan, naturally, wanted to go. Not content with that, they perpetually swarmed through the rest of the city and were moved by their “righteousness” to break up the Greeks’ theatrical performances and athletic contests, harassing the goyim until they finally lost patience, whereupon the Jews rushed wailing to the reigning Ptolemy or Roman governor, complaining of “anti-Semitism” and “persecution,” and often, through the intrigues and financial power of wealthy and ostensibly civilized Jews, obtaining some punishment of the “intolerant” Greek population. Since the Jews, so far as is known, reaped no profits from these events and some of their rabble were injured or killed in the riots they provoked almost regularly every few years, their harassment of the Aryans must have been instinctive, rather than the result of some conscious plan or conspiracy.”

    ….snip….

    “Roth’s Jews Must Live (New York, Golden Hind Press, 1934) has–for obvious reasons–disappeared from most or all libraries and become extremely rare. It is a book of 319 pages, including the frontispiece, etc.; about half of it was reprinted, Birmingham, Alabama, 1964, and is available from Liberty Bell Publications. Roth’s is by far the most complete description of the quotidian behavior of the great mass of ordinary Jews in business and social relations, and we all owe him gratitude for his honesty and admiration for his courage. Relevant here is the reaction of Jews when the lowly Aryans try to have a club or a hotel or a residential district of their own. The Jews yell about “discrimination” and by bluster and, if need be, secret financial pressure, force their way in, but when they have made it squalid and hideous with their vulgarity, they abandon it and flock back to their own colonies, preferably leaving the Aryan owners bankrupt and dispossessed. Such conduct would show malice in an Aryan, but, if we are objective, we must attribute it to the impulsion of a racial instinct that operates as automatically and as subconsciously as an uncorrupted Aryan’s instinctive admiration of certain forms of beauty.”

    • Agree: Robjil
    • Replies: @Robjil
  137. @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    Search : https//:www.thereligionofpeace.com – Islam – Myths of Islam – Islam is a Religion of Peace.

    “Tolerance” in Islam:

  138. Seraphim says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    The ‘responses’ of Talha are always laughable.

  139. @Johnny Smoggins

    Thank you. And I have read that book. But like the Satanic Bible, I found the book very overrated and pretentious. Not that I disagree with the ideas it grapples with. Just that it does so in a very amateurish and underwhelming manner.

    Hitler towers above both Anton Lavey and Rangard Redbeard, both of which look like alienated angsty basement dwelling virgins vs the Chad Hitler who mobilized an entire nation to war against most of the world’s most powerful militaries and almost won. That right there is the tier-1 of might. Hitler is very much worth listening to and studying.

    • Replies: @Talha
  140. @R2b

    I have heard about the argument concerning table talks being authentic. But here’s the thing; even if they are fake, the ideas expressed in table talks are top tier genius ideas that will blow your mind. Especially reference Christianity. This alone is why I believe they are authentically Hitler’s ideas. No forger is that wise or ingenious. Anyone that smart would publish such ideas under their own name. I believe Hitler is the author of these ideas.

  141. Talha says:
    @Wood Stove

    Chad Hitler

    Chad leaders don’t end up blowing out their own brains while Russians take over their capital city and rape women at will in the streets.

    Take the L – the guy was an utter failure.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Wood Stove
  142. anonymous[374] • Disclaimer says:
    @Monotonous Languor

    including the unacknowledged milieu which permeates and undergirds every facet of every good thing you may still currently enjoy in your daily lives.

    What we outsiders see, is a “milieu” which cheered unabashed plunder in faraway lands, resulting in untold pain, suffering and death. Those lands are still feeling the knee of the Christian West, on their jugulars.

    If there is something uniquely good in it, you should have mentioned that here, because is it not apparent how much different the way-of-life, which Christianity purportedly exhorts, is different from others. Are Christians innately more righteous than others… now, don’t make me laugh my ass off, ok.

    In this present age, when facts about the Church are being exposed, one dark secret a day, it is pathetic you voice so much admiration for the faith it propagates. Perhaps it is simply a coping mechanism to numb the pain of each nail you feel in its coffin.

    The Darkening Age

    Of course, the curse of pagan polytheist mangods-worship has existed for millennia, much before Christianity reared its pagan head, but this “new” (at that time) pagan faith has resulted in billions of spiritually lost souls who will pay dearly for rejecting the Oneness of God, and for associating others with God.

    For all those who bought into the pagan perfidy of “3 in 1,” “Son of God,” “Jesus is Lord,” “the only begotten son of god,” “the reincarnation of god,” etc., that is, all those who have passed away, and those who subscribe to it now and will eventually pass away with it… for them all, the faith has indeed been that of a spiritual “Dark Age.” That is because no one who associates others with God, will ever enter Paradise. It is a promise from God.

    They have certainly disbelieved who say, “Allah [God] is the Messiah, the son of Mary” while the Messiah has said, “O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” Indeed, he who associates others with Allah… Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers. : Holy Quran 5:72

  143. Robjil says:
    @Malla

    Most people don’t know about Kito’s war of 115-117 AD. I wonder why? In your post above the word Aryan should be replaced with non-Jew. Roman empire was a empire of many peoples.

    Kito’s war was a massive Jewish revolt. Jewish rebels killed hundred of thousands of civilians in many Roman provinces in the Eastern part of the Empire. They also destroyed countless Roman buildings and infrastructure in this revolt.

    Cyrenaica, what is now Libya, was place of the largest and most horrific attack by these Jewish rebels. Some people say that the recent 2011 attack on Libya is an echo, a Jewish return, of this past event on Libya again.

    Cyrene, now Cyprus, is the other Roman province that also severely ravaged by these violent genocidal Jewish rebels.

    http://dictionary.sensagent.com/Kitos%20War/en-en/

    The Kitos War (115–117) (Hebrew: מרד הגלויות‎: mered ha’galuyot or mered ha’tfutzot (מרד התפוצות), translation: Rebellion of the exile) is the name given to the second of the Jewish–Roman wars. Major revolts by diasporic Jews in Cyrene (Cyrenaica), Cyprus, Mesopotamia and Aegyptus spiraled out of control, resulting in a widespread slaughter of Roman citizens and others (200,000 in Cyrene, 240,000 in Cyprus according to Cassius Dio, but see below) by the Jewish rebels. The rebellions were finally crushed by Roman legionary forces, chiefly by the Roman general Lusius Quietus, whose nomen later gave the conflict its title, as “Kitos” is a later corruption of Quietus

    • Replies: @Robjil
  144. Robjil says:
    @Robjil

    Here are more details about Kito’s war.

    http://dictionary.sensagent.com/Kitos%20War/en-en/

    In Cyrenaica, now Libya

    In Cyrenaica, the rebels were led by one Lukuas or Andreas, who called himself “king” (according to Eusebius of Caesarea). His group destroyed many temples, including those to Hecate, Jupiter, Apollo, Artemis, and Isis, as well as the civil structures that were symbols of Rome, including the Caesareum, the basilica, and the thermae.

    The 4th century Christian historian Paulus Orosius records that the violence so depopulated the province of Cyrenaica that new colonies had to be established by Hadrian:

    “The Jews … waged war on the inhabitants throughout Libya in the most savage fashion, and to such an extent was the country wasted that, its cultivators having been slain, its land would have remained utterly depopulated, had not the Emperor Hadrian gathered settlers from other places and sent them thither, for the inhabitants had been wiped out.”[2]

    In Cyprus

    In Cyprus a Jewish band under a leader named Artemion had taken control of the island, killing thousands of civilians. Under the leadership of one Artemion, the Cypriot Jews participated in the great uprising against the Romans under Trajan (117), and they are reported to have massacred 240,000 Greeks.[3][6] A small Roman army was dispatched to the island, soon reconquering the capital. After the revolt had been fully defeated, laws were created forbidding any Jews to live on the island.

    In Egypt, as in the other regions above, the destruction of Roman buildings and temples plus Roman civilians was done on a massive scale by these Jewish rebels. If one wants to talk the destruction of Roman artwork/buildings this revolt should be mentioned.

    Then Lukuas, leader of rebel Jews, moved towards Alexandria, entered the city, which had been abandoned by the Roman troops in Egypt under the leadership of governor Marcus Rutilius Lupus, and set fire to the city. The pagan temples and the tomb of Pompey were destroyed. Trajan sent new troops under the praefectus praetorio Quintus Marcius Turbo, but Egypt and Cyrenaica were pacified only in autumn 117.

    Kito’s Jewish revolt was so massive, it included also Judea and Mesopotamia. The entire Eastern half of the Roman empire was involved in this violent genocidal revolt. Yet, we rarely hear about this massive Jewish revolt. Why is this so?

    • Thanks: Malla
    • Replies: @Malla
    , @SolontoCroesus
  145. anonymous[374] • Disclaimer says:
    @DudeWhat

    nor have Hindus

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purushamedha

    …Asko Parpola suggests actual human sacrifices are described in Vedic texts,…

    Medieval period
    …However, it also suggests that the Purushamedha may have in some cases consummated with the actual sacrificing of a human….

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_(practice)

    Buddhists are a poor example to give, when you consider the bloodthirsty scum of Sri Lanka and Burma.

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @RSDB
  146. Malla says:
    @anonymous

    Buddhists are a poor example to give, when you consider the bloodthirsty scum of Sri Lanka and Burma

    Sri Lankan Buddhist extremists might be scum (and having close links to Zionists like Hindu fundamentalists) but Burmese Buddhists were reacting to the bad behavior of Bengali Muslims.

  147. Malla says:
    @Robjil

    Yet, we rarely hear about this massive Jewish revolt. Why is this so?

    “Official” history is propaganda and ((they)) have a lot of control on it.

    • Agree: Robjil
  148. anonymous[374] • Disclaimer says:
    @Seraphim

    There are so many “truths” and “counter-truths”… so many “lies” and “counter-lies”… it has become quite tedious and frankly quite pointless, to get into an argument about all of them.

    The current reality about the various spiritual faiths should be more than enough. And, what is it?

    Islam is True Monotheism. All other major faiths are “in-his-image” Pagan Polytheist Mangods-worship, aka Godlessness.

    The fact that Islam is uncompromising about the Oneness of God, and not associating anything with God, should be unassailably clear. I repeat, Islam is the purest form of Monotheism.

    The fact that other major faiths have taken human-like figures as “gods” is also crystal clear. The idea of the Infinite God, the Creator of all existence, in the lowly human (or…) body should be absolutely mind-bending ludicrous, but it seems billions are under its hallucinatory influence.

    Of course, this is the reason why pagan godless Islamophobes employ every pathetic trick from their books of deceit, because they are simply impotent at countering Islam where it really matters. The absolute core, upon which the entire faith rests. For Islam, it is the Tawheed.

    Unable to attack the Tawheed, without shooting off their own, whatever, they attack Islam with… spread by the sword, FGM, misogyny, terrorism, etc. All pathetically feeble attacks.

    As for the Muslims, they go for the jugular… the pagan practises of worshipping lowly beings (humans, animals…), inanimate objects, etc. The pagans can only bleat in pain, and resort to… see previous para. 😀

    • Replies: @gay troll
  149. anon[128] • Disclaimer says:

    Monotonous languor 125, how exactly is the UN going to impose this detailed control of all your intimate personal aspects? Sounds like you don’t know your rights. Or how you got them.

    In terms of who is fucking you over and oppressing you, are you really more scared of some wogs in Turtle Bay than the beltway pedos who put your local pigs in free tanks?

  150. gay troll says:
    @Monotonous Languor

    I only hate deception, which is why I hate Christianity, all the more because I love God, and Christianity tells lies about God, perhaps even intended to combat Jewish misconceptions about God, but you cannot fight fire with fire without burning down everything. The history of Christian iconoclasm and violence is extremely well documented, unlike the nebulous biography of the Jewish messiah slash wizard, and I refer to it in passing rather than enumerating every instance because it is common knowledge. Christianity is the religion of Western imperialism, which overturned Western republicanism, and continues in its mission to exploit every living thing on Earth for the benefit of the elite. Despite its anti Semitic undercurrents Christianity is joined at the hip with Jewish beliefs. Any “Jewish problem” faced by the world today is the direct result of its Christian problem.

    As for me being a gay troll, well again that’s just me being honest. I made no choice to be exclusively attracted to the same sex. Unlike the hypocrites who put faith in a book that preaches pacifism while practicing conquest.

    Hail Satan 666

    • Troll: Seraphim
  151. gay troll says:
    @anonymous

    Islam is a crock of patriarchal piss, the oneness of God is half female and has been known to humankind for thousands of years, including the pagans. Anyone who thinks God is a man, or that women are a secondary class of human, is not a monotheist.

  152. Catiline: “Not disputing your point, I’m genuinely curious and know very little about the subject, but weren’t these things you mentioned more honored in the breach than in the observance for a decent span of time after the war?”

    I’m not saying there was ever a time when everyone agreed 100%, or that there will ever be such a time. Certainly if, in 1861, there had been unanimous agreement among whites about negroes, then the Civil War wouldn’t have occurred. There has always been disagreement on this topic since the founding of the country, and it continues right up to the present. I offered some background on this in a prior comment here:

    https://www.unz.com/ldinh/your-black-future/#comment-3983067

    If you look closely, the picture that emerges is one of a country moving sporadically, but overall constantly, in the direction of racial equality, from 1776-2020. Today’s BLM and antifa “revolutionaries” are the cultural descendants and equivalents of Civil War era abolitionists.

  153. Talha says:
    @steinbergfeldwitzcohen

    Muslims routinely bullied Hindus into converting to Islam in India.

    Yes, depending on the dynasty in charge; some didn’t care much and others did put on restrictions on Hindus to incentivize conversion, that is recorded even by Muslim historians. However, it didn’t work very well. As Prof. Richard Eaton has noted, the greatest places of the spread of Islam was precisely where this was not attempted:
    “If Islamization had ever been a function of military or political force, one would expect that those areas exposed most intensively and over the longest period to rule by Muslim dynasties—that is, those that were most fully exposed to the ‘sword’—would today contain the greatest number of Muslims. Yet the opposite is the case, as those regions where the most dramatic Islamization occurred, such as eastern Bengal or western Punjab, lay on the fringes of Indo-Muslim rule, where the ‘sword’ was weakest, and where brute force could have exerted the least influence. In such regions the first accurate census reports put the Muslim population at between 70 and 90 percent of the total, whereas in the heartland of Muslim rule in the upper Gangetic Plain—the domain of the Delhi Fort and the Taj Mahal, where Muslim regimes had ruled the most intensively and for the longest period of time—the Muslim population ranged from only 10 to 15 percent. In other words, in the subcontinent as a whole there is an inverse relationship between the degree of Muslim political penetration and the degree of Islamization. Even within Bengal this principle holds true.”
    The Rise of Islam and the Bengal Frontier, 1204-1760 (Univ. of California Press)

    To this day Hindus continue to convert to Islam:

    “Why I converted to Islam and buried my Hindu identity: Dalit Camera founder”
    https://theprint.in/opinion/why-i-converted-to-islam-and-buried-my-hindu-identity-dalit-camera-founder/359849/

    I have personally met some and just a year or so ago a Hindu lady called up my wife (who handles our local convert sisters group) to ask about how she could convert.

    In general, BECAUSE of the historical bullying done by certain Muslim rulers, India still remains overall a minority Muslim area as compared to the dramatic success in (previously Hindu) Indonesia where the spread of Islam was mostly done by traders and Sufi teachers like the Wali Songo and only took on a military expression at the end when the rising native Muslim sultanates kicked the already-dying Majapahit Empire out from the strongholds in Java to the island of Bali.

    Islamic jurists in India continue to condemn birth control and the community of Muslims continues to grow.

    Yes – Muslims like having children – others seem not to like having children:

    The track record of Islam is the worst of any religion on the face of the Earth.

    This is opinion with no evidence to back it up. If one looks at the worst massacres in human history, the Muslim world simply doesn’t hold a candle to the rest (unless you just make up numbers to support your conclusions):
    https://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm#20worst

    anyone can call Islam the religion of ‘peace’

    Islam means “submission (to the Divine)” – it has rules for both peace and war.

    The real religion of peace does not enforce conversions or seek to discriminate against non-believers.

    Islam incentivizes conversions and always makes itself the alpha religion wherever it becomes established – because it earned it; either it smashed the previous order on the battlefield with spears and shields (as in previous Byzantine and Sassanid territory) or through traveling preachers/scholars (mostly Sufis to be perfectly honest) where no external Muslim armies penetrated (as in places like Malaysia, the Caucasus, West Africa, and Nubia). Otherwise you have stupidity like this:
    “Michael Jackson’s 22-year-old daughter, Paris Jackson, will play a gender-bending Jesus Christ in the upcoming movie Habit. ”
    https://onemillionmoms.com/current-campaigns/michael-jackson-s-daughter-to-star-as-jesus-in-upcoming-movie/

    And the only thing you can do is stand around like a dork, wring your hands and say; “do that to them too” to make yourself feel better:

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  154. Talha says:
    @Priss Factor

    BAM! Here you go – maybe you can convince these guys to tweak a few things here or there to make it more palatable:
    https://www.encyclopedia.com/politics/legal-and-political-magazines/world-church-creator

    Why recreate the wheel?!

    You’re welcome.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @Priss Factor
  155. @Talha

    We are not talking about gumpkins.

    • Replies: @Talha
  156. AaronB says:

    Islam incentivizes conversions and always makes itself the alpha religion wherever it becomes established – because it earned it… it smashed the previous order on the battlefield with spears and shields

    All you have to do is let Muslims talk long enough, and the mask comes off lol.

    No matter how nice they seem on the surface, the religion is what it is.

  157. @AnonStarter

    Well done, sir.

    There is no need for you to read a book. You just rely on reviews of it that resonate with your bias.

    The bibliography for the book I referenced has more books listed than each letter of your last absurd sentence.

    Jacques Ellul wrote the forward to Bat’s book

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  158. Sura 81:23 describes Gabriel as a great power straddling the horizon and giving revelations. In Ancient Egypt Seth is described as being great of power and also straddling the horizon. Seth is very alpha male especially with women. The Gabriel of the NT has no obvious attributes I can relate to Seth whose followers were noted for their fiery temper and violence. Seth is especially associated with desert like country. The original myth relating to Seth describes him as a trickster but who still had a place in the divine economy.

    The Greek analytical mindset which categorises into monotheism etc. doesnt work in Ancient Egypt nor does robotic book forms of inspiration which have a strong tendency to pure idolatory through confining the divine in a straightjacket. Egyptian instructional texts describe how to listen to the heart which we call conscience. This is where the internal spirit of god rules. This avoids many of manifests evils which are carried out by fools who take Quranic verses completely out of context and proceed to do the most terrible deeds imaginable because the faculties of conscience have been buried.

  159. Talha says:
    @Priss Factor

    gumpkins

    I don’t understand; are you saying that these are the kinds of people attracted to a racialized religion or what it produces?

    Either way, I will be super impressed if you get something viable off the ground and it becomes a successful custom-made religion for white people with a wide following. Give yourself a timeline to meet the goal, how about 25 years (a quarter century) – should be plenty of time.

    Peace.

  160. @Talha

    So if I understand correctly; you are advocating the creation of a religion tailor-made for whites. Like you know, you’re just making it up to suit you and how you think a religion should be and how God is defined and the terms by which you interact with Him according to your own mandate.

    You know, this could become the new great movement of the future. And it wouldn’t be just for the white race but for all peoples. Also, it doesn’t have to be white race as a whole but for different subsets of the white race. But it would apply to all other peoples as well.

    Now, this wouldn’t be anti-universalist but particularist within universalism. This is the strength of Judaism. While some nasty vicious Jews have nothing but contempt for goyim, there are sane and decent Jews who do believe in the One God and believe that God loves all people, BUT that He has a special relation to Jews. But then, why not, as the God that even Christians and Muslims worship originated with Jewish prophecy?
    Take the law, “Thou shalt not kill.” This is a universal law. Even if every people were to develop their own covenant, this rule would or should apply to all. It’s like nationalism doesn’t mean that some nations should approve of murder, robbery, rape, and etc. All decent nations should believe in the basic universals of morality: Do Not Kill, Do Not Steal, Do Not Cheat, Do Not Watch Star Trek.
    Still, each people have their unique history, myths, narratives, icons & heroes, and etc. Vietnamese and Armenians may agree on ‘Thou Shalt Not Kill’, but Armenians have their own history and Viets have theirs. They are racially different and evolved differently. So, one could say that, IF there is One God or One Truth governing all, He or It meant different destinies for different peoples. It’s like even if One God or One Truth created all the animals and even if all animals are governed by genetics and laws of evolution, they have found different niches in the natural order. Fish swim, birds fly, tigers eat meat, deer eat leaves, polar bears hunt seals, black bears raid campsites, etc.
    Likewise, even though Viets and Armenians are both humans and should follow the same set of basic morality — though this is difficult with Negroes who be wild and crazy — , Viets and Armenians evolved differently and formed different senses of who they are in different lands in relation to geography and foreigners. Then, is it too much to conclude that the One God or One Truth meant for different folks to have different destinies? And if the experience and mythos of each people is unique under the guidance of the One God or One Truth, then that can serve as the basis of the people’s covenant with the One.

    You said, ‘tailor-made for whites’. No, such would be silly and trivial. I totally reject the current fashion of twisting religion to conform to reigning fads and fashions. According to devious Zionists, Evangelicals should be about ‘Muh Israel’, and according to homo-maniacs, Christianity should be about Anno Sodomini. Rockers want churches to rock and throw a party. Now, that kind of stuff is just shi*.
    Rather, each people should approach the Question with an tantalizing blend of humility and boldness, and a sense of time(or eternity) beyond their own. The prophecy should not be about trends but truth across eons. The reason why ‘gay marriage’ is such an abomination(even to a lifelong atheist like myself) is because it is a crime against all that is natural, normal, healthy, and moral. At best, homosexuality is a natural abnormality(like downs syndrome or kids born deaf), and we should tolerate it on those grounds, but the idea of pretending that it has equal or even higher value than real sexuality that produces life is not only crazy but evil. Also, what’s the point of ‘gay marriage’ when homo fecal penetration and lesbian poon-grinding cannot produce life? So, homos have to take life created by real sexuality and then pretend the two homos ‘had the kid’. It’s based on a total lie, and it also means the biological parent can just walk away from his own kid. It’s utterly sick, but it is what neo-satanic Jewish globo-homo lunatics have pushed on us… with virtually no push back from the currently cucked ‘conservatives’ who are craven wussies.

    Anyway, the white covenant or any new covenant should not be ‘tailor-made’. It should be a challenge. This is why Judaism is a great religion. Even as it assures Jews of their special relation to God, it also constantly reminds them that the road is not easy. Jews shouldn’t just rest on their laurels and have God do everything for them. Also, Jews shouldn’t take for granted that God approves whatever they feel like doing. Saul and David both discovered they did stuff to displease God and had to atone. Even Moses, the greatest of all prophets, had to make amends before God who got tired of his Mel Brooks antics on occasion. According to the new trivial christianity, god is like a smiley-faced nanny in the sky, the favorite uncle, or the doting parent who never says ‘no’ to kids’ demands. So, if kids want rock music in churches, there you go. If kids want homo celebration, god is for that too. That’s some stupid crap.
    The covenant has to be tough and challenging, like a mountain. Moses had to go to Sinai and wait a long while to receive the Laws. He didn’t just sit on his butt and have the Laws delivered to his tent by FedEx. And this is why Judaism didn’t produce one prophet but many prophets because Jews kept going astray.
    So, instead of tailor-made, it has to be climbed with ropes. One sees further from the mountaintop, but it is necessarily harrowing and hellish to get there.

    Either God is God and He defines the terms of your relationship and informs you what they are or you’re the one in charge and you get to do it and He just has to deal.

    Now, Talha is a Muslim and believes in the Koran as revealed by Muhammad the final Prophet. I respect that. But being an atheist, I see religion differently. There is no god or gods without human imagination. Indeed, Muhammad proved this. He created a new religion. He done it. Now, you may argue that He received the truth from Allah. He was chosen by the One God, and He dutifully set down as narrative and laws what was revealed to Him.
    But it takes two to tango. A man has to strive for the truth and reach out before he can receive anything. It’s like a man has to make the effort of climbing a mountain. A mountain doesn’t just lift him to the top. So, even if the mountain does exist, the man has to make the effort to see what the view is from the top. (Same with science. While the laws of nature are out there, the bold scientist has to go to the trouble of discovering them. They don’t just come to him.)
    Prophecy is like mountain-climbing of the mind. Even if one doesn’t believe in god or gods, as I never did, there are certain visions, imaginations, understandings, reflections, and speculations that probe deeper and touch on profounder questions. To attain this, one cannot be passive but must be active in seeking it out.
    Thus, prophecy is not merely a matter of God or Truth picking you and telling you what-is-what but you yourself striving to find God or Truth and in the process, discovering things you never realized but ALSO imprinting your imagination on the vision of truth. So, while Muslims may believe Muhammad was a humble servant who merely did as Allah ordered Him, the atheist or neo-fascist perspective would say He played a big role in formulating and shaping the ways of Allah.

    [MORE]

    If indeed God or the Truth is simply what He or It is and has nothing to do with us, then why was Muhammad necessary? Why not just believe in Jesus? Christianity said God sent Jesus to save the souls of mankind. Prior to the rise of Islam, Christianity was commonplace all over the Near East, and it was spreading. Yet, Muhammad chose to ask questions and seek His own prophecy and find His own answers. And even though He built on Judaism and Christianity(and certain Arabic traditions), He created a new formulation of God.

    For that reason, Muhammad can serve as a template for other peoples. Arabs used to be a bunch of ragtag people outshone by other groups. But among them arose a Man who, instead of just bending His will to the religion created by others, came up with His own vision. It was all the more remarkable because He wasn’t Jewish. After all, even though Christianity became the religion of gentiles, it too had been created by Jews. It seemed as if Jews and only Jews had the prophetic power to create a great religion. But Muhammad proved otherwise. He gave sand-negroes much pride. Now, I think Islam would have been better IF it had been meant as a religion only for the Arabs, especially as Muhammad loaded the religion with so many rules and customs that make sense only within the Arabic tradition.
    Also, by saying that Islam is for all mankind, it says other peoples don’t have a right to create their own ‘muhammads’. Why should only Arabs produce a great prophet who lays downs the rules for all mankind? Why not Muhammad for Arabs and other muhammads for other peoples? Why deny the chance of other peoples to produce their own great prophet who receives the truth for his people?

    I say go for it; this ought to be very, very interesting… Who will write them? Will they be set in stone or will future generations change them as they please like you wrote them as you pleased? … Make it happen; I’d love to see another contender in the ring. But, if I’m being honest, I don’t think it’ll get off the ground – prove me wrong.

    It will be difficult, but that’s why it will be so challenging and exciting for history if it gets off ground. The problem is most peoples understand that prophecy is dangerous. The closest thing China came to having a prophet was the leader of the Taiping Rebellion, and the results were horrific. Even peaceful Jesus created a religion that led to so many wars. Marx the modern prophet came up with an ideology that came to destroy millions in the 20th century. Hitler played false prophet and ended up killing 50 million. Islam led to so many wars and mayhem. Prophets can be megalomaniacal with radical will. So, most social orders fear the prophetic types. And would-be-prophets, like Jim Jones, turned out horrible. So, prophecy is like playing with fire; it’s radioactive. It can lead to historical meltdowns. It can be lead to conditions like volcanic explosions or earthquakes.
    Still, volcanoes and natural disasters are part of geological history and necessary ‘correctives’ to the tensions that build up through time. Why do tensions build up among man-made orders? Because most social orders are built on corruption, mendacity, deviousness, and all sorts of petty evil. The rulers favor the yes-men, the toadies, the commissars. Over time, even spiritual authority becomes part of the Order. Look how corrupt Christian clergy has cucked before the Power. And even orders founded on prophecy eventually turn corrupt and conformist. Look how communism went from revolutionary struggle for justice to the new hierarchy of crooks and nepotism. Look at the state of US democracy today. Ideally, the problems can be solved methodically and peacefully, but when the rot goes on for too long, tensions build and build and prophetic types may appear on the scene to turn everything upside down. Now, most prophetic types cry out but fail in action. Muhammad was almost unique in being both the Prophet and victorious warrior, which is why He was chosen as the greatest individual that ever lived in a certain book.

    http://www.amaana.org/ismailim.html

    Because prophetic types are dangerous, most social orders fear them. And most people are resistant to them as well. The order prefers the puppet-prophets, which is why MLK, Mandela, and Obama(LOL) are prized by Jews who pulled the strings. As for the masses, they prefer idols over prophets. If prophets point out what is wrong with the people and drive them toward self-criticism, idols flatter and entertain them. To most people, prophets are party-poopers, like when Moses returns with the tablets and spoils the Golden Calf celebration in TEN COMMANDMENTS.

    Still, without some prophetic power, a social order will grow moribund, stale, and enervated. Look at East Asia. Yellows had little in prophetic energy and favored the Sage instead. Like Confucius and Lao Tzu. Confucius was about proper manners and social wisdom and instruction for kids. Lao Tzu was about quiet meditation, seeking of harmony with The Way. The wisdom of these men led to a great civilization, but there was something missing in the culture: the power of individual will, a certain boldness, the sense of leap into the unknown. It’s no wonder so many Chinese fell head-over-heels over communism because Marx embodied the power of thought unbeknownst to the Chinese whose culture had mostly been about Confucian refinement, good manners, and proper form. As Mao said: “A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another.” Of course, Mao’s antics proved why prophetism is so dangerous, not least during the Cultural Revolution. But one thing the Chinese learned in the 19th and 20th centuries was that history grows staid and stale with too much stability, continuity, and conformity. On the other hand, Maoism proved you can’t build anything with too much craziness. Will the current regime in China find that balance between revolutionary spirit and reverent traditionalism, the fascist ideal(which is also at the heart of Zionism in its good points, its bad points being current supremacist mode and imperialism against Arabs and Iranians).

    Perhaps, Jews and later Arabs developed the prophetic mode because they were a nomadic people for whom uncertainty and crisis were commonplace. Power and Stability abhor prophecy. Indeed, when did Russia and China go into quasi-prophetic mode? When the old systems were falling apart and created a crisis-laden vacuum to be filled by something new and powerful. The Roman order adopted the prophecy of Jesus and St. Paul only when the future seemed increasingly grave.
    In contrast, Jews developed the prophetic mode as wanderers of the desert. And Muhammad rose when the Arabs were a bunch of nobodies without much in the way of effective power structure. They existed in a less hierarchical and oppressive order. Many lived between their own community and pagan community, thus being relatively free of both orders.

    But most peoples around the world lack the prophetic element for reasons of history, culture, power, and/or genetics. Blacks are too restless and oogity to ponder deeply about anything. Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad meditated for many days while fasting. Can you imagine a Negro forgoing fried chicken and watermelons and thinking deeply about anything for more than three days? They be all about rapping, ‘twerking’, and jiving. As for yellows and also browns, aka Tacoans of Meso-America, they evolved to be passive, earnest, humble, and conformist. The quasi-prophetic age happened in China from Taiping Rebellion to Maoism ONLY BECAUSE China was torn apart by external forces, thus creating a desperate vacuum for something new. But Maoism soon proved that most Chinese are dogs. Maoism among the Jews isn’t possible because if a Jewish Maoitz told other Jews to go around smashing all Jewish statues as ‘old culture’, they’d tell him to ‘suck my dic*’. But when Mao told Chinese to smash stuff, that’s what the morons did. As for Japan, it never had a revolution prior to the arrival of the West that undermined Tokugawa power. As for the browns of Latin America, they are indeed a sorry bunch, a mass of Guillermo-like Gomezers who just wanna mow lawns for gringo and eat tacos and drink corona beer with lime.

    As for the white race, it produced lots of great artists, thinkers/philosophers, scientists, warriors, explorers, and etc, but arguably hasn’t produced a single true prophet. There was Martin Luther but he was just reiterating the True Faith laid down by Jesus. The only white folks who came close to prophecy were 19th century Germans in philosophy and music. And one could argue Hitler was a dark prophet of Aryanism. But in the end, Hitler destroyed than built, and it gave such bad reputation to German Passion that the Germans lost the necessary fuel for prophetics.

    So, that would leave the Jews. But even Jews are now weak in prophecy because they got total power. Those with power fear prophets. Jews who come closest to being new prophets are men like Norman Finkelstein, but Jewish Power has done everything to sideline him. Jews control the mega-trends, but it’s for stupid nonsense like globo-homo and BLM. Or hysteria about Russia, Iran, and “It’s okay-to-be-white-supremacists” around the corner. Jewish Power is now represented by the likes of Jonathan Greenblatt and pathological liars on MSM who will push any BS to perpetuate Jewish Supremacism. Jewish Ideas are now more about punditry than prophecy.

    Given all these facts, I agree that prophetism is a tough sell. And yet, globalism is leading to meltdowns and crises around the world. Christianity is dead. The Left is dead. The new ‘left’ is just idiotic idolatry of homos and negroes. What people call ‘cultural marxism’ is really ‘cultural capitalism’, truths determined by hype, fashion, hysteria, and/or market value. Conservatism is useless, what with its endorsement of Lady Maga and cucking to even trannies. Mass Migration means mass invasion and new nakbas around the world.

    And for these reasons, various peoples may be compelled to develop a certain prophetism as bulwark against globalist tyranny of Jewish supremacism, globo-homo-mania, and afro-savagery-celebration. After all, without the bold prophetic imagination of your own, your people will fall prey to the narrative, ‘values’, and agendas of the Other. People without prophetism bend to Others with prophetic power. Even if Jewish propheticism is much corrupted and weakened, it still has more power than those of others. Indeed, it is why Holocaustianity has replaced Christianity. It is why loyalty to Israel means more to whites than loyalty to their own white nations. Jews think Big and shape the Big narrative. Whites think smaller and cower before the bigger Jewish ego. Jews created globo-homo, and it’s spread to Japan. Why? Jews think big and aggressively. Japanese think small and are emotionally committed to SERVING the dominant power.
    Even when Jews were a weak people surrounded by powerful empires, they still felt special and bold. They were gonna take their orders from God(as shaped by their own imagination) than cuck to pagans. In contrast, Japan is dying because it thinks small and meek, and obeys others with bigger and bolder minds. (The fact that Jews are cautious and wary about spreading globo-homo to the Muslim world goes to show that Jews fear counter-prophetism. As the main mode of Japanese culture is TO SERVE the top power, Japanese have no prophetism of their own. Japanese had something like their own covenant in Tenno Worship, through which Japanese felt as one with the sacred islands and its nature. But defeat in WWII turned the emperor into Tokyo shoeshine boy, a total wuss. Mishima took the last stand, but he failed and Japan’s fate is now all about merchants and materialism and profits from globo-homo order. This is why Jews feel emboldened to push globo-homo on wussy Japan but do not against Muslim nations. Jews respect Islam, whereas they feel contempt for Japanese whose culture is now cartoon porn.)

    So, what does this tell us? The only way to survive globalism is to be like Jews and develop some degree of prophetism. Stop looking to the Jewish-controlled US as the fount of all truth and rightness. Stop cowering before Jews, blacks, and homos. Create your own culture of prophetism and search your or your people’s own relation to God or the Truth. Develop the boldness and will to climb the spiritual mountain and see the truth from above for yourself. It doesn’t matter if God doesn’t exist. There is some power beyond the power behind everything, and every people have a unique relation to this power, and it is the people with bold imagination that will find this link and use it as the basis of their identity and destiny.

    Given the spiritual hollowing out of 21st century, the utter moral degradation, the ‘existential’ threats faced by all groups(due to low birthrates and/or mass migration invasions), and the fall of enlightenment era ideologies, the only game left in town IF YOUR PEOPLE ARE TO SURVIVE is to develop a prophetism that is autonomous and independent of the globalist cancer that seeks to conquer all the world with Jewish brains, black muscle, and homo asses.

    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Talha
  161. @Jack McArthur

    I should add that an epithet of the creator in Ancient Egypt is “the Great He-She”.

  162. @Talha

    Shukran once again, akhi, for the source material.

    Islam incentivizes conversions and always makes itself the alpha religion wherever it becomes established – because it earned it; either it smashed the previous order on the battlefield with spears and shields (as in previous Byzantine and Sassanid territory) or through traveling preachers/scholars (mostly Sufis to be perfectly honest) where no external Muslim armies penetrated (as in places like Malaysia, the Caucasus, West Africa, and Nubia).

    It’s worth noting that the early campaigns weren’t so much a matter of choice as of survival.

    The Sassanids were allied with the inimical Quraish, intending to vanquish the nascent Muslim polity in its infancy, while the Byzantines drew first blood by assassinating a Muslim emissary. Given the historical context, such conflicts were always perceived as a zero-sum game, however protracted they may have been.

    I really appreciate the link to Eaton’s work. While not as current, S.M. Ikram’s Muslim Civilization in India is also worth a look. Here we read the following about the first Muslim ruler in the subcontinent:

    The administrative arrangements which Muhammad ibn Qasim made with the non-Muslims after his victory over Dahar are often referred to as “the Brahmanabad settlement.” The basic principle was to treat the Hindus as “the people of the book,” and to confer on them the status of the zimmis (the protected). In some respects the arrangements were even more liberal than those granted to “the people of the book” by the later schools of Islamic law. For example, according to later opinion the zimmis could not repair their places of worship, although existing ones were allowed to stand. The question of repairing a damaged temple came up before Muhammad, who referred the matter to Hajjaj. The latter, having consulted the ‘ulama of Damascus, not only granted the permission asked for, but declared that so long as non-Muslims paid their dues to the state they were free to live in whatever manner they liked. “It appears,” Hajjaj wrote, “that the chief inhabitants of Brahmanabad had petitioned to be allowed to repair the temple of Budh and pursue their religion. As they have [[12]] made submission, and have agreed to pay taxes to the Khalifa, nothing more can properly be required from them. They have been taken under our protection, and we cannot in any way stretch out our hands upon their lives or property. Permission is given them to worship their gods. Nobody must be forbidden and prevented from following his own religion. They may live in their houses in whatever manner they like.”/6/ According to one early Muslim historian, the Arab conqueror countenanced even the privileged position of the Brahmans, not only in religious matters, but also in the administrative sphere. “Muhammad ibn Qasim maintained their dignity and passed orders confirming their pre-eminence. They were protected against opposition and violence.” Even the 3 percent share of government revenue which they had received during the ascendancy of the Brahman rulers of Sind, was conceded to them. In his arrangements for the collection of taxes, Muhammad ibn Qasim also made an attempt to provide some safeguards against oppression, by appointing “people from among the villagers and the chief citizens to collect the fixed taxes from the cities and the villages so that there might be the feeling of strength and protection.”/7/

    Doesn’t seem to dovetail with our resident anti-Islam brigadiers’ portrayal of history now, does it?

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  163. @Jack McArthur

    Yes, Gabriel was the angelic messenger who appeared to Mary during what was called The Annunciation.. AND, he also, supposedly gave visions to Mahomet.

    One has to be stoned on acid to believe such obvious lies

  164. @AnonStarter

    That review is teeming with jealousy and hatred of a balanced scholar whose work has upset the putative “received wisdom” about the so-called andalusian paradise

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  165. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    It’s worth noting that the early campaigns weren’t so much a matter of choice as of survival.

    I would personally say “inevitable”. The fight with Persia was on once Yemen converted to Islam. Yemen was part of the Sassanid Empire and that was the loss of a major choke point on the Red Sea. If you read about the campaigns during the time of Umar (ra), he held councils to see if they should stop the campaigns once they had conquered about a half of the Persian Empire, but the Persian elites were still traveling about and fomenting revolts. Some Companions (ra) thought they were in a stable position to hunker down and draw the new borders, but the view that won out was; this snake is going to keep biting from one burrow or the other unless we break its neck…thus the back of the Persian Empire was broken after an illustrious and long history.

    while the Byzantines drew first blood by assassinating a Muslim emissary

    Well technically it was their Ghassanid allies, but yeah…choose your allies correctly or they could piss someone off and you end up losing half your empire.

    Here we read the following about the first Muslim ruler in the subcontinent

    Thanks for the reference. In essence this follows the general pattern that occurred in a LOT of places. The initial Muslim conquests that were done mostly under the Arabs were more accommodating – this was the case in Persia, the Levant, Egypt, etc. HOWEVER, later conquerors tended to be Turkic or Turko-Persians or Turko-Afghans or the like. For instance the various Mamluk dynasties and of course even their predecessors like Ghaznavids, Seljuks, Ghurids, etc. were not as accommodating and often either overturned some of the earlier policies or simply didn’t hold to their part of the agreement; a good example of this is what happened in Egypt when the Mamluks simply ignored the safety of the Coptic dhimmi population:
    “The Copts…found the new regime of the Bahri Mamluks to be frequently uninterested in maintaining its ‘part’ of the traditional covenant of protection. In this sense, the Bahris may not have perpetrated any official oppressions or persectutions against Copts and other non-Muslims, but they did attract a tangibly dark shadow over their dhimmi relationships…Donald Little argues that the most clear cut result of these cycles (which reoccurred at least in 1301, 1321, and 1354) and were always a result of mob pressure than government policy) was a wave of mass conversions of Copts escaping the repititions of violence and increasing societal hostility toward them.”
    Coptic Identity and Ayyubid Politics in Egypt 1218-1250 (Oxford Univ. Press)

    Another example is how the Seljuks cutting off Christian pilgrimage routes to the Holy Land or interfering with them that helped spur the impetus for the Crusades.

    It is a sad part of our history unfortunately that we have to learn from and avoid.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  166. AaronB says:
    @Priss Factor

    This is the strength of Judaism. While some nasty vicious Jews have nothing but contempt for goyim, there are sane and decent Jews who do believe in the One God and believe that God loves all people, BUT that He has a special relation to Jews. But then, why not, as the God that even Christians and Muslims worship originated with Jewish prophecy?

    I think you may be the only person on this site who actually gets Judaism.

    And you are quite correct that this is significantly more benevolent and conducive to world peace and co-operation than the invalidating universalism of the other two monotheisms.

    The problem with a religion like Islam is that sure, you may be able to convert, but if you choose not to, you have no validity or value in the eyes of Islam – you are going straight to hell. What’s more, Muslims have a duty to try and convert you – another source of potential conflict Judaism lacks – and have a religious imperative to spread their religion across the world, rather than be satisfied with a single, rather small, land.

    Obviously this isn’t a recipe for world cooperation and peace. Its an interesting question why the religions derived from Judaism both became imperialistic, and so much less tolerant towards the existence of other nations and religions than their parent.

    It could be a holdover from the empires that had existed in the region – but it suggests insecurity, this need to invalidate others.

    Christianity has mellowed out considerably on this front, and anyone would rather live in a Christian land than a Muslim one these days. Probably even most Muslims, lol.

    Islam hit its peak in the 17th century, and is now in decline – its in its WW1-WW2 self-destructive period.

    So one can expect a mellowing out on that front too, but probably not for a 100 years or so, so in the meantime one must be vigilant when dealing with Muslims.

  167. @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    Weak tea, Mick.

    You, of all people, don’t need to read the entirety of a book to find it polemical, do you?

    I’ve seen the screeds you’ve penned against Michael Hoffman, whose work includes quite impressive bibliographies, so appealing to that arbitrary criterion of legitimacy really means nothing in this discussion.

    Nor does name-dropping. We could cite far more academics in the field of Islamic history whose work undermines that of Fernandez-Morera and Littman. In fact, Littman’s work is typically rejected by most experts in the discipline of Islamic history.

    Both works constitute a variety of pseudo-scholarship, advancing what the late Stephen Hawking referred to as “the illusion of knowledge.” Their methodology of approaching history is as illegitimate as that of a Muslim polemicist attempting to airbrush such events as the Granada Massacre of 1099, the Almohad intolerance, or similar realities from the historical record. It’s flagrant cherry-picking, selecting and culling the worst examples of life under Muslim rule, then presenting them as if they constituted the norm of Muslim suzerainty throughout history.

    That’s not objective scholarship. It is, as you say, bias.

    Do you really want to compare the life of the dhimmi in dar al-Islam with that of Jews or Muslims under the aegis of the contemporaneous Church?

    Let’s do that. We can discuss the capriciously and frequently mandated tallages, prohibitions against holding public office and owning land, occupational restrictions, ghettos and freedom of movement, expulsion, forced conversion, and massacres. How about the Papal Bull of Perpetual Servitude to which Jews and Muslims were subject?

    Give us your best shot. Show us how superior Catholicism was to Islam back in the day.

  168. @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    That review is teeming with jealousy and hatred of a balanced scholar whose work has upset the putative “received wisdom” about the so-called andalusian paradise

    Oh, Mick … And you’re the one complaining that I don’t read?

    From the same review:

    The Myth consists of over 350 pages of what a colleague poetically calls “convivencia sneering,” a resentful drive to first misconstrue nearly 80 years of scholarship on medieval Spain as a mere celebration of the convivencia, or living-together-ness of Muslims, Jews, and Christians, and then tear down the newly constructed straw man. “Convivencia sneering” is often found in two guises, both of which are manifest in The Myth: first, the misrepresentation of scholarship on the Jews, Christians, and Muslims of medieval Spain as a uniformly idealizing and one-dimensional endeavor divorced from research into the real “realidad histórica”; and second, treating works written for a popular audience, most notably María Rosa Menocal’s The Ornament of the World, as the scholarship in the field while ignoring works written for a scholarly audience and refusing to treat writing for those two audiences as different beasts. …

    Let me just say it plainly: Nobody in the academic world seriously talks about medieval Spain as “an Andalusian Paradise.” … The entire book is constructed against a straw man and a few popular appropriations of scholarship. The Myth‘s myth is a myth.

    Don’t like Menocal? Try Mark Cohen or Thomas Glick for a more objective approach to the subject.

  169. Robjil says:
    @AnonStarter

    You forgot the Polish region of Europe. Things were very different there. Not much is talked about that in our “free press” MSM. The Polish tolerance is why there are so many European Jews.

    https://www.polin.pl/en/event/statute-kalisz-750th-anniversary-first-privilege-granted-polish-jews

    On 16 August 1264, in the town of Kalisz, prince Bolesław the Pious issued a statute (charter) for Jews living in Greater Poland, which was under his rule. This piece of legislation, approved in the 14th century by Casimir the Great and then confirmed by subsequent rulers of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (Stanisław August being the last of them), was intended as the core document regulating the legal status of Jews in Poland for many centuries.

    The Statute tackled the issues of authority over the Jewish population and defined rules under which Jews were allowed to engage in lending and trade, as well as norms related to their relations with Christians. The Statute provided for penalties for desecration of a Jewish cemetery or a synagogue. It also contained provisions concerning blood libel directed against Jews.

    Confirmed by subsequent rulers, the Statute of Kalisz became a symbol of Jews’ safe living in Poland.

    Poland was also tolerant of Tartar Muslims, who once ruled from Poland to China. Russia is also tolerant of the Tartar Muslims. Many Russian Tartar Muslims live in Tatarstan, which is not far from Moscow.

    “Despite being brought up as an atheist, I was always very aware of my family history as well as the history of Lipka Tatars. Following many discussions about rising nationalism and Islamophobia, I realised just how very few people are aware of the Muslim community peacefully settled in the heart of Europe for over 600 years. Knowing that Podlasie region is the only place within today’s Polish borders where Tatars not only lived for generations, but are still present today I decided to execute the project there. This was my first visit to the region,” says Korycki, who shot his project The Waning Crescent during the summer of 2017.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  170. @Talha

    Sure, I completely understand the need to sift the wheat from the chaff, though I tend to weigh those transgressions against the greater denominator of time when examining Islamic history per se.

    I remain convinced that Islam arrived with a mandate for liberty that was lost very early in its history, just as The Prophet sallALLAHU ‘alaihi wa sallam said it would be. In spite of this, enough of it remained to herald a new epoch of radically improved political administration throughout the medieval world and beyond, one of its unsung attractions that drew whole populations willingly under its aegis without a fight.

    My prayer is for the greater Muslim world to recover and restore this mandate, the loss of which has constituted one of the most devastating blows in our history.

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  171. @Robjil

    Ah, na zdrowie, my friend!

    Yes, Poles and Turks once enjoyed a very strong alliance. Thank you for the reminder.

  172. @AnonStarter

    You seem to be proud for your alliance with the Turks…against Christians.

    No wonder Poland has been and still is the shithole of Europe.

    Stalin shoul have left you to the rule of the Nazis.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  173. Mr. Barrett:

    When statues and monuments are torn down in Russia and the Shit Countries, aka Eastern European countries, the West applauds as a meritorious act.

    When monuments and statues are destroyed in the West, one goes to gaol for 10 years.

    Terrific!

    As Solzhenitsyn said in his address at Harvard “the West lacks courage”.

  174. @Thales the Milesian

    You seem to be proud for your alliance with the Turks…against Christians.

    Uhm … For your edification, I’m a Muslim American who happens to know a little Polish.

    You seem to be bothered by the fact that some Christians and Muslims of antiquity might have gotten along with each other better than you were originally led to believe.

    Sorry, Thales. Can’t help you with that.

  175. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Polish.

    “Based” Poles – help defeat Turks at Battle of Vienna.

    Legendary Poles: Move to Dar ul-Islam and help establish one of the Muslim world’s premier air forces.
    “A small group of 17 Polish pilots led by Turowicz arrived to Pakistan in 1947 and so the National Pakistani Air Force was born….Turowicz was quickly promoted to a general and is considered a Pakistani national hero while in Poland, due to communist censorship it was prohibited to talk and publish any data of this extraordinary person. Every Pakistani pilot knows him and his achievements and considers him a great example.”
    https://www.polishfilmla.org/polish-eaglets-over-pakistan/

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @RSDB
  176. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    I tend to weigh those transgressions against the greater denominator of time when examining Islamic history per se.

    Totally agree. I just mention them as low points which mar our history and something we should be careful about NOT repeating.

    I remain convinced that Islam arrived with a mandate for liberty that was lost very early in its history, just as The Prophet sallALLAHU ‘alaihi wa sallam said it would be.

    I guess I personally would be careful about using a loaded word like “liberty” because it means so many different things to so many different people, for instance the right to hold degenerate marches in the public celebrating sodomy. However, I do agree with you; the Prophet (pbuh) and the Rashidun (ra) are our exemplars in these regards (all others are held to the standards they set) and that part of our history was quite short (Rashidun lasted a mere 30 years).

    My prayer is for the greater Muslim world to recover and restore this mandate, the loss of which has constituted one of the most devastating blows in our history.

    Ameen.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  177. ivan: “See this for a withering takedown down of Catherine who??!”

    Takedown is the wrong word. Hatchet job from a fake atheist is more apt. O’Neill claims to be an atheist, but is entirely sympathetic and excusatory when it comes to Christian vandalism of the ancient world. His review is highly biased in exactly the same ways he accuses Nixey of being. He gives only half the story when it suits his purpose of exonerating Christianity of its crimes, and is on many points extremely misleading. For example, he cites Emperor Julian’s Misopogon, in which it is recounted that Julian was disappointed to visit a pagan temple, only to find it had fallen into disrepair and had nothing but a goose privately owned by the attending priest to offer in sacrifice. He carefully refrains from telling you that state sponsorship of such sacrifices had been banned by Julian’s Christian predecessors some twenty years before, and all pagan temples ordered closed by imperial decree. He paints a picture of these temples gradually sliding into desuetude, as though people just became bored with them, when actually that’s far from clear. Withdrawal of state sponsorship no doubt was a devastating blow.

    His airy dismissal of the great historian Gibbon is ridiculous coming from such an intellectual non-entity as O’Neill. He’s also a hypocrite, pointing out acidly that Nixey isn’t a trained historian, but then on his “About the Author” page admits that he isn’t either. One of the things that Gibbon says in his The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire is that the pagan temples were once some of the greatest stores of wealth in the Empire. If O’Neill were an honest man, he’d surely discuss this angle, since a cash-strapped Empire in the 4th century would have had every motive to close the temples and loot them of their treasures. For this purpose, the intolerant religion of Christianity, with its insistence that its God is the only God, was perfectly formed. But instead, this motive of Christian imperial greed remains unexplored.

    His accounts of Greek atomism are likewise slanted and deficient. He suggests that because Plato didn’t like Democritus he had no following by the 4th century, and that all his voluminous works perhaps were already lost even at that time. This seems improbable. Both Democritus and Epicurus were very influential and wrote prolifically. However, their atheistic worldview was anathema to the Christians, so none of their works survive. Porphyry and Celsus both wrote extensively too, and were hostile to Christianity. Unsurprisingly, their works also haven’t survived, as the Christian Emperor Theodosius ordered them all burned. What we know of them comes only from Christian “refutations”.

  178. @Talha

    Overview of Polish/Ottoman History

    FOR FOUR hundred years, the Ottoman Empire maintained close diplomatic relations with the Kingdom of Poland under the Piast dynasty, the combined lands of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania under the Jagiellonian dynasty, and the forma-mixta republic of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. The frontier shared by the two polities stretched from present-day Slovakia, Romania, Moldavia, and into eastern Ukraine, and was the longest frontier shared by a Christian and an Islamic power in the early modern period. Following the partitions of Poland-Lithuania by Russia, Prussia, and Austria at the end of the 18th century, mass emigrations of Poles prompted by numerous failed uprisings led to the foundation of Polish communities all over Europe and the New World, as well as the Ottoman Empire. Polish émigrés were drawn to the Sublime Porte in hopes of re-creating a Polish state by agitating for conflict with Russia. Their education and abilities, however, caused many to find employment in the Ottoman military and bureaucracy, where they played critical roles in the modernization processes of the Tanzimat period. …

    Despite the often earth-shaking results of the conflicts that arose between Poland and the Ottoman Empire, their shared history was largely spent in official periods of peace. If one may speak of long-term “grand strategies” for Poland and the Ottoman Empire, the maintenance of peaceful relations between these two polities was critical given the frequent conflicts waged with the neighboring powers of Muscovy, Sweden, the Holy Roman Empire/Hungary, Venice, and Safavid Persia. The importance of this bond to the health of both polities is evident in the unique nature of Polish/Ottoman relations throughout the early modern period. Unusually bilateral relations between the Islamic power of the Ottoman Empire and Christian Poland-Lithuania were established through the exchange of “eternal” peace accords (‘ahdnames) beginning in 1533, which were ratified by the Polish Crown and parliament (sejm). Several instances of mutually agreed upon demarcation of boundaries, the first of which was in 1542, were among the earliest of their type in European history. Periods of official and unofficial co-dominium over frontier regions further indicate the special reltionship of these neighboring societies.

    was-salaam.

    • Thanks: Talha
    • Replies: @Thales the Milesian
  179. @AnonStarter

    nearly 80 years of scholarship on medieval Spain

    Yes, exactly. Previously you quoted him claiming”conventional” something or other.

    The Academy is self-referential and self-righteous when it comers to its settled conclusions and conventions about Islam but Unz is about keeping an open mind about historical revisionism, right?

    The author’s introduction anticipated and answered the very objections you post as though those those historical opinions are dogma.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  180. @AnonStarter

    OK. The founder of Catholicism is Jesus Christ, true God, True man. He is sinless, perfect, and non violent.

    Mahomet is the founder of Islam and its perfect man. He was an unlettered, ignorant man who was a pedophile, a killer of Jews, and a brigand. He was a psychotic who also suffered fits.

    Catholicism is true. Islam is a lie.

    • Replies: @Talha
  181. @AnonStarter

    There is no greater example of Islam spreading tolerance than its invasion and occupation of Spain for nearly seven centuries.

    I mange most countries are dying for that to happen to it.

    https://www.newenglishreview.org/Hugh_Fitzgerald/Apologists_for_Islam_and_History/

  182. @Talha

    I guess I personally would be careful about using a loaded word like “liberty” because it means so many different things to so many different people, for instance the right to hold degenerate marches in the public celebrating sodomy.

    Right, but those are few and far between in this venue; most readers here aren’t about to associate Islam with that kind of permissiveness.

    I speak more to the fact of the millennial Muslim world’s terminal collapse that began proximate to the Abbasid period and has continued apace ever since, manifesting successively ever degraded forms of the religion. It’s why we still have a significant portion of that world insisting that the death penalty is warranted for simple apostasy, regardless of whether or not that offense is officially prosecuted in most countries.

    I witness one report of a bedouin harshly upbraiding The Prophet for a perceived offense in the presence of his companions and The Prophet summarily commanding those same companions to refrain from hostility against him; then I find reports apparently commanding death for any who speak ill of The Prophet, the vast bulk of which seem to be derived from the Medinian context of war for the very survival of the Muslim polity. Yet, in later generations, when that threat had ceased to exist, the context was oddly abandoned and the mere act of offense became a capital one. Such a fatwa coalesces with the conduct of contemporaneous kings, not that of The Prophet sallALLAHU ‘alaihi wa sallam.

    Much as I appreciate the socially conservative ethos that has maintained a wealth of knowledge, there remains a potential disadvantage of preserving error therein, particularly when it has received the imprimatur of attribution to highly revered individuals, the integrity of whom would be considered impugned merely by engaging in critical analyses of the content attributed to them. The sensitivities are understandable, even laudable in one sense, though at the end of the day, they don’t constitute sufficient cause to foreclose such criticism. And no, I don’t believe that time has come and gone.

    We could talk about the processes that went into compiling and classifying written ahaddith and the formation of seerah literature. We could discuss the inherent contradiction between the Rashidun destruction of written ahaddith and latter day preservation of the same. That might be useful, but the fact remains that Muslims throughout the millennial world are typically not free to approach these subjects critically without censure, whether from the religious authorities or common folk of their respective countries.

    Insha’ALLAH, this will change, though it’s one reason I prefer to be in America in spite of its numerous depredations, which I’m quite free to remain distant from, alhamdulillah.

    • Thanks: Talha
  183. @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    It comes as no small irony that you cherry-pick even Pearce’s quote, failing to acknowledge this portion:

    Let me just say it plainly: Nobody in the academic world seriously talks about medieval Spain as “an Andalusian Paradise.” … The entire book is constructed against a straw man and a few popular appropriations of scholarship. The Myth‘s myth is a myth.

    This is how he describes the conclusions of “80 years of scholarship on medieval Spain” which you find to be so insufferably “dogmatic”: al-Andalus was not a “paradise.”

    I like your second response better — raw and unvarnished, stripped of the pretense of scholarly analysis.

    Much appreciated.

  184. Robjil says:
    @SolontoCroesus

    Here is more about the destruction from this Jewish revolt. A lot of websites cover up the brutality of this Jewish revolt.

    We seem to be having a little Kitos war in the west these days. It is a Jewish revolt like Kitos since western MSM is run by six corporations who are run by Zionist Jews or Supremacist Jews.

    https://followinghadrian.com/2018/11/05/the-rebuilding-of-cyrene-by-hadrian-in-ad-118-9-hadrian1900/

    The destruction of Roman infrastructure and the loss of life of civilians was so horrific that the Romans had to create reconstruction and re-population plans for the most effected areas of these Jewish revolts. The Romans gave details of the blood lust and lack of respect for human life of these Jewish rebels. Sounds familiar to us today with the Bolshevik Revolution, the fire bombing of civilians in WWII with Jewish advisors prompting and Mad Albright’s OK with 500000 Iraq dying of ZUS sanctions.

    In AD 115, while Trajan and the majority of the Roman troops were campaigning in Parthia in the East, the diasporic Jews rose against Rome, creating havoc in Cyrenaica, Egypt and Cyprus. The hostilities started in Cyrene and quickly spread to Alexandria, Judaism’s largest city, and resulted not only in great loss of life but also in widespread destruction. In Cyrenaica, the revolt raged all over the country and was characterized by extreme violence and bloodshed. Dio Cassius paints a horrific picture of unrelieved brutality. The Jews, he claimed

    “would eat the flesh of their victims, make belts for themselves of their entrails, anoint themselves with their blood and wear their skins for clothing; many they sawed in two, from the head downwards; others they gave to wild beasts, and still others they forced to fight as gladiators. (Dio, LXVIII 32.2-4)”

    Here is some info about the rebuilding of Cyrene ( in a city in Cyrenaica, now Libya) and re-population plans for the town.

    After two years of bitter fighting, the rebellion was quelled by Q. Marcius Turbo shortly before the death of Trajan in August AD 117. The work of restoring the territory of Cyrenaica also began under Trajan who had time to appoint a certain Lucius Gavius Fronto of the Legio XV Apollinaris whose mission was to settle 3,000 veterans in Cyrene (SEG XVII 584). Although the plans of reconstructing the city were initiated by Trajan, it was Hadrian who was predominately responsible for the rebirth of Cyrene.

    Many cities of the Eastern part of the empire was greatly effected this Jewish revolt. Even a large city like Alexandria was effected by it.

    Indeed, on his accession to the throne, Hadrian immediately attended to the restoration of the cities devastated by the revolt. His restoration of Alexandria is ascribed to his first year in power, from September 117 onward, and was evidently among the first great public works of his principate (read more here). The following year, Hadrian undertook the repair of the damaged buildings in Cyrenaica, and later, brought in new settlers and founded a new city, named Hadrianopolis, probably in the hope that it would put the province on its feet again.

  185. “Whoever does not embrace the Catholic Christian faith is lost, like your false prophet Muhammad.”

    -St. Peter Mavimenus (d. 8th century), martyr from Gaza. Response reported in the Martyriologum Romanum when he was asked to convert to Islam by a group of Muslims.
     
    “There is also the superstition of the Ishmaelites which to this day prevails and keeps people in error, being a forerunner of the Antichrist…. From that time to the present a false prophet named Mohammed has appeared in their midst. This man, after having chanced upon the Old and New Testaments and likewise, it seems, having conversed with an Arian monk, devised his own heresy. Then, having insinuated himself into the good graces of the people by a show of seeming piety, he gave out that a certain book had been sent down to him from heaven. He had set down some ridiculous compositions in this book of his and he gave it to them as an object of veneration.”

    -St. John Damascene (d. 749), Syrian Arab Catholic monk and scholar. Quoted from his book On Heresies under the section On the Heresy of the Ishmaelites (in The Fathers of the Church. Vol. 37. Translated by the Catholic University of America. CUA Press. 1958. Pages 153-160.)
     
    “We profess Christ to be truly God and your prophet to be a precursor of the Antichrist and other profane doctrine.”

    -Sts. Habenitus, Jeremiah, Peter, Sabinian, Walabonsus, and Wistremundus (d. 851), martyrs of Cordoba, Spain. Reported in the Memoriale Sanctorum in response to Spanish Umayyad Caliph ‘Abd Ar-Rahman II’s ministers that they convert to Islam on pain of death.
     
    “Any cult which denies the divinity of Christ, does not profess the existence of the Holy Trinity, refutes baptism, defames Christians, and derogates the priesthood, we consider to be damned.”

    -Sts. Aurelius, Felix, George, Liliosa, and Natalia (d. 852), martyrs of Cordoba, Spain. Reported in the Memoriale Sanctorum in response to Spanish Umayyad Caliph ‘Abd Ar-Rahman II’s ministers that they convert to Islam on pain of death.
     
    “On the other hand, those who founded sects committed to erroneous doctrines proceeded in a way that is opposite to this, the point is clear in the case of Muhammad. He seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh goads us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected, he was obeyed by carnal men. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest wisdom. Indeed, the truths that he taught he mingled with many fables and with doctrines of the greatest falsity. He did not bring forth any signs produced in a supernatural way, which alone fittingly gives witness to divine inspiration; for a visible action that can be only divine reveals an invisibly inspired teacher of truth. On the contrary, Muhammad said that he was sent in the power of his arms—which are signs not lacking even to robbers and tyrants.”

    -St. Thomas Aquinas (d. 1274), Theologian and Doctor of the Church. Quoted from his De Rationibus Fidei Contra Saracenos, Graecos, et Armenos and translated from Fr. Damian Fehlner’s Aquinas on Reasons for the Faith: Against the Muslims, Greeks, and Armenians (Franciscans of the Immaculate. 2002.).
     
    “As we have seen, Muhammed had neither supernatural miracles nor natural motives of reason to persuade those of his sect. As he lacked in everything, he took to bestial and barbaric means, which is the force of arms. Thus he introduced and promulgated his message with robberies, murders, and bloodshedding, destroying those who did not want to receive it, and with the same means his ministers conserve this today, until God placates his anger and destroys this pestilence from the earth.
    […]
    (Muhammad) can also be figured for the dragon in the same Apocalypse which says that the dragon swept up a third of the stars and hurled down a third to earth. Although this line is more appropriately understood concerning the Antichrist, Mohammed was his precursor – the prophet of Satan, father of the sons of haughtiness.
    […]
    Even if all the things contained in his law were fables in philosophy and errors in theology, even for those who do not possess the light of reason, the very manners (Islam) teaches are from a school of vicious bestialities. (Muhammad) did not prove his new sect with any motive, having neither supernatural miracles nor natural reasons, but solely the force of arms, violence, fictions, lies, and carnal license. It remains an impious, blasphemous, vicious cult, an innovention of the devil, and the direct way into the fires of hell. It does not even merit the name of being called a religion.”

    -St. Juan de Ribera (d.1611), Archbishop of Valencia, missionary to Spanish Muslims, and organizer of the Muslim expulsions of 1609 from Spain. Quoted in several locations from his 1599 Catechismo para la Instruccion de los Nuevos Convertidos de los Moros (my translation).
     
    “The Mahometan paradise, however, is only fit for beasts; for filthy sensual pleasure is all the believer has to expect there.”

    St. Alfonsus Liguori (d. 1787). Quoted from his book, The History of Heresies and their Refutation.

    https://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101

    https://www.answering-islam.org

    https://westminster-institute.org/events/robert-spencer/

  186. The United States fails to practice what it preaches all of the time. Recall the toppling of the statue of Sadam Hussein by the United States Military? Not My President!

  187. @AnonStarter

    https://isi.org/intercollegiate-review/the-myth-of-the-andalusian-paradise/

    But you buddy says that no Professors subscribe to and teach the myth of an Andalusian Paradise.

  188. Every chapter is prefaced by quotes from Professors propagating the myth of an Islamic Paradise (It was islamic apartheid) but AnonStarter posts quotes from some prof saying that no professor teaches the putative paradise.

    Taqiyya much?

    https://standpointmag.co.uk/issues/october-2016/books-october-2016-lyn-julius-andalusia-myth-jewish-golden-age-spain-moors/

  189. The Jews accused Jesus of being a drunkard and glutton. Christian mystics according to a recent Pope did not hestitate to use sexual imagery in their writings. That anyones prophet is associated with god given pleasures is no crime. Its no wonder that women seem, so I am told, especially attracted to Islam because it preserves the god given complementary nature of men (masculine) and women (feminine). Anyone recall the biblical passage in which women and children are made rulers just like today and why this as a punishement?

  190. @AnonStarter

    Not so fast, Mr. Uighuroglu.

    I hope you said you are sorry for your ignorance of history.

    The Turks are Muslim; but not all Muslims are Turks.

    The historical Turks you are alluding to are called Ottomans.

    The Ottomans were exceptionally cruel and commited unspeakable of crimes against the populations they subjugated. Unfortunately, their behavior is what gave a bad name to the Muslms in Europe.

    They were also cruel to their Arab Muslim subjects. Please, ask a Syrian, Iraqi, or a Saudi what they think of them.

    Better yet, educate yourself by watching “Lawrence of Arabia”.

    There are many wonderful Turkic people: Kazakhs, Gagauz, Azeris, Kirghiz, Tuvinians, Yakuts to name but a few.

    But Uighuroglus, the gangrene of histiry?

    • Troll: AnonStarter
    • Replies: @Seraphim
  191. @AnonStarter

    Mr. Uighuroglu:

    Whether you like it or not, the Poles are next of kin to their Russian-fellow Slavs.

    The Poles invaded Russia and killed Russian folks on the orders of the Vatican.

    That they allied themselves with the criminal Ottomans, makes it even worse.

    The Poles are the Papacy’s toiletpaper.

    Mr. Uighuroglu, please explain to the Unz readers what is DEVSIRME?

    • Troll: AnonStarter
  192. Talha says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    who was a pedophile

    I’ve seen this before. I’ve got an offer for you; I t’s called mubahalah.

    You see, you believe there is a God and so do I. So, it’s basically going to the Divine for arbitration on the matter. You see, it’s really easy to throw accusations when you have no skin in the game. This ensures that you have some major skin in the game.

    You say he was a pedophile, we say he wasn’t. And of course all these definitions have changed with time. For instance, most US states had 10 as the age of consent prior to the 20th century:
    http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/teaching-modules/230?section=primarysources&source=24

    Let’s forget all that.

    So what I propose is that we ask God to decide the matter. It’s very simple; we both state our positions and we both ask God to send His curse upon the one who He knows is lying in His Infinite Knowledge. If he was a pedophile in the view and determination of the Divine, you have nothing to worry about, however, if he wasn’t, then I have nothing to worry about.

    Seems fair right? How about it? Are you feeling lucky and confident enough in your position to have some skin in the game? Are you down, chief? Remember, you have absolutely nothing to lose if you are right.

    Let me know if you’d like to proceed and I’ll draw up the formula both of us can type out.

    Peace.

  193. @AnonStarter

    Mr. Uighuroglu, do not forget the benefits the Armenians enjoyed during you rule.

    You Gangrene of history!

    • Replies: @Talha
  194. @Talha

    1880 Delaware.

    WT….?

    And Chile’s was 20 in the same year?

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  195. @Talha

    I’d like to see Mick take you up on that offer.

    He does, after all, exude great confidence in his statements.

    Shouldn’t be too difficult.

    Right, Mick? …

    Mick?

    crickets.wav

    • Replies: @Talha
  196. Talha says:
    @Thales the Milesian

    You Gangrene of history!

    “Who O who will rid us of these Turks??!!”

    Peace.

  197. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    This seems to be the official Catholic position:
    “Betrothals [sponsalia] require seven full years in the contracting parties. The marriageable age is fourteen full years in males and twelve full years in females, under penalty of nullity (unless natural puberty supplies the want of years).”
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01206c.htm

    It’s always been a moving goal post:
    The French Napoleonic code provided the legal context in 1791 when it established an age of consent of 11 years. The age of consent, which applied to boys as well as girls, was increased to 13 years in 1863….In 1875, England raised the age to 13 years; an act of sexual intercourse with a girl younger than 13 was a felony. In the U.S., each state determined its own criminal law and age of consent ranged from 10 to 12 years of age. U.S. laws did not change in the wake of England’s shift. Nor did Anglo-American law apply to boys.
    Behind the inconsistency of these different laws was the lack of an obvious age to incorporate into law. Although scientists and physicians had established that menstruation and puberty occurred on average around age 14 in Europe at this time, different individuals experienced it at different ages — a fluid situation at odds with the arbitrary line drawn by whatever age was incorporated into law.”
    http://chnm.gmu.edu/cyh/teaching-modules/230

    The West seems to have created a ubiquitous ideology of perpetual forward progress that has infected practically every facet of life. There is no indication that anyone thought about installing brakes on that train. Now that it is steadily approaching a bridge that’s out ahead, they want to stop, but brakes were never built into in the design.

    Every new generation can denounce the previous generations before it as immoral. Everyone uses this to their own advantage, to throw cheap shots at their particular target. And then they stand around scratching their heads while statues of previous generations come tumbling down. Not baffling at all, Frankly:
    Let’s see if homeboy has the confidence to take me up on my offer. I have yet to have someone accept the challenge on this or any other forum I’ve presented it. They huff and puff and make lame excuses. It’s easy to throw out cheap insults when you have no liability or consequences.

    Peace.

  198. RSDB says:
    @Talha

    Pakistan in 1947 was a much friendlier place to Christians than Pakistan in 2017 though.

    Probably Pakistan will still be friendly to white foreigners with valuable expertise but I doubt that there would be quite as much good will on both sides.

    • Replies: @Talha
  199. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    I’ve never had anyone accept this offer – I have made the offer to multiple people here and on other forums. Though presumably an atheist might (haven’t yet come across that situation), but that would be nonsensical anyway since both parties have to believe in a Deity in the first place as a point of reference for Divine arbitration.

    Let’s see how this goes.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  200. The West seems to have created a ubiquitous ideology of perpetual forward progress that has infected practically every facet of life. There is no indication that anyone thought about installing brakes on that train. Now that it is steadily approaching a bridge that’s out ahead, they want to stop, but brakes were never built into in the design.

    The illusion of forward progress has been with humankind since the beginning. God alludes to “those who have gone before who were mightier in the land” as admonition and describes the deniers’ mockery of “fairy tales of old.”

    Yet [b]y the time, man is in loss.

    That said, I’m still satisfied with the evidence that ‘Aisha’s age was about 18 at the time of her marriage, so when the usual suspects toss out that tired old slander, they always fall wide of the mark. At least Mick isn’t afraid to reveal the fact that most of his source material is zionist (e.g. jihadwatch, etc.). Makes him quite transparent to our readership.

    I have yet to have someone accept the challenge on this or any other forum I’ve presented it. They huff and puff and make lame excuses. It’s easy to throw out cheap insults when you have no liability or consequences.

    Indeed.

    I, too, would like to see him put his soul where his mouth is.

    was-salaam.

  201. @Talha

    It may be that Mick has been spending the bulk of the afternoon looking up the definition of “cherry-pick.”

    Might have to wait another day. Patience, my brother.

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  202. @Talha

    The Jewish Origins of Islam

    Edouard-Marie Gallez, Le Messie et son prophète: aux origines de l’Islam. Paris: Studia Arabica, dirigée par Marie-Thérèse Urvoy. Tome I: De Qumran à Muhammad. 4th edition, 2012. 523 pp. 35 Euros. Tome II: Du Muhammad des Califes au Muhammad de l’histoire. 2010. Pp 574. 39 Euros.

    Reviewed by Anne Barbeau Gardiner

    [MORE]

    In his groundbreaking book, Le messie et son prophète: Aux origines de l’Islam, Edouard-Marie Gallez lifts the veil and lets us see the historical roots of Islam. He shows it originating in a vast movement of messianic Jews called “Ebionites” or “Nazareens.” These non-rabbinical Jews accepted Jesus as the messiah, but not as the divine Logos. Gallez shows how the scrolls and fragments found in the Qumram caves by the Dead Sea and in the vicinity of Massada illuminate the ideology behind this movement of Jews, who were eager and willing to follow the messiah into holy war, believing they would thereby save the world. Unlike rabbinical Jews, who looked to the past, these men looked forward to an earthly utopia that would come only after mass exterminations. Like the later Muslims, they believed that the messiah had not died on the Cross but had been taken up alive into heaven and was ready, whenever the conditions were right (i.e., when Palestine was no longer in the hands of the impious and the Temple had been rebuilt), to return to the Mount of Olives and lead them to the subjugation of the entire world. The Nazareens, like the Muslims, forbade pork and wine

    The first tome of this magisterial work of about a thousand pages deals with the Essenes, the Qumram documents, and the Jewish Messianic movement from its rise in the 2nd-century B.C. to its culmination in 7th-century Islam. The second tome is devoted in large part to the birth of Islam, the attempt to erase the Nazareen legacy, and the traces of it that remain in the Qur’an, which started as a compilation of Nazareen lectionaries (“qery’n,” to which the Arab word qur’an corresponds). These lectionaries were initially given to the Arab Qorechites to indoctrinate them into the messianic ideology and engage them in the conquest of Palestine.

    +++++++++++++++++++=

    The entire review can be found online.

    Now, we know that Mahomet fornicated with his 9 y.o. concubine which means he was a pedophile.

    Because you hav chosen to follow a fake religion you have cursed yourself, no need to appeal to God but you could decide to accept and follow the Messiah rather than a psychotic pedophile who had seizures, was suicidal and had scores of women he committed adultery with 0 when he wasn’t busy beheading jews.

    O, and he said that unless you sit down to pee you are going to hell. Good luck with all of that

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Talha
    , @anon
  203. Men who are Islamic must pee like a girl or go to hell

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  204. @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    That book sounds like it might have some good source material, though I probably won’t agree with its conclusions.

    no need to appeal to God

    Wow.

    You surprise me, Mick.

    And here I thought you were a God-conscious dude.

    Turns out you’re just another garden-variety coward.

    Sad.

  205. @AnonStarter

    http://www.answeringmuslims.com

    Dear Anon. It was about 15 years ago when I first began to encounter pro islamic polemics and so I read the Koran online at the University of Southern California and also at least five books by Mr. Robert Spencer, including one with Daniel Ali a convert to Catholicism from Islam in 1998.

    Ali founded the Christian Islamic forum.

    I have also read the biography of Mahomet by Serdja Trifkovic and others by Andrew Bostom.

    There has only ever been one religion- the religion of Jesus Christ and the Old Testament was a long slow progressive revelation about the coming messiah.

    Jesus fulfilled over 300 O.T. prophecies, He is the way (not a way). He is the Truth (not a truth) He is the life(not a life) and I am quite familiar with islam and its always-changing doctrines such as Mahomet is not a pedophile because she was 18 y.o when marriage was consummated.

    I understand why such changes are constantly necessary – because the more western man knows about Mahomet and his fake religion the more diligent must be his followers in cramming facts (derived from Islamic sources) down the institutional memory hole.

    I don’t have any desire to appeal to God to curse you as you have cursed yourself for as Jesus taught, he who denies me before God I will deny them before God. I’d rather prefer you to convert and save your soul because that is God’s plan and will for you but God also have your free will and so He will not save you without your cooperation.

    As the kids say, it’s on you

    If you do not convert, you will be cast into hell, but your actions are, in effect, a plead for God to cast you there because you are an adult who does not wish to follow Jesus

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  206. @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    Not sure about that one, but if you imagine that upright urination is the “manly” thing to do, you’re either

    a) a confirmed bachelor,
    b) not very old, or
    c) both.

    Why older men should sit when they pee

    Good habits now pay off later.

    Unless, of course, you enjoy the inevitable splash.

    Which, of course, you’re more than welcome to.

  207. RSDB says:
    @anonymous

    Buddhists are a poor example to give, when you consider the bloodthirsty scum of Sri Lanka

    Well that must be why Muslims supported them all through the civil war then.

  208. @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    I don’t have any desire to appeal to God to curse you

    You don’t have to worry that, Mick, since I have no fear of it.

    I’m more than willing to stake my soul on my faith.

    But it seems you’re finding every excuse under the sun not to do the same.

    Pathetic.

  209. Talha says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    Now, we know that Mahomet fornicated with his 9 y.o. concubine which means he was a pedophile.

    Cool. If we know this, than it should be a slam dunk for your side. You have nothing to lose.

    no need to appeal to God

    LOL! What did I tell you. They always back down. Cowards.
    OK, let’s try a different subject then. You say Islam was created by Jews. No problem, let’s do mubahalah on that one. C’mon Mickey, are you game?

    I don’t have any desire to appeal to God to curse you

    That’s not what I’m asking, that’s the easy way out. Any coward can do that.

    NO. I’m saying let’s both ask God to curse the one who is lying.

    Let’s do this or are you going to offer another lame excuse.

    Peace.

  210. Talha says:
    @RSDB

    Good points.

    Peace.

  211. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    E. Gallez was drunk from too much cheap Manischewitz. (I know. All Manischewitz are cheap.)
    His work was groundbreaking in the sense he dug it from a sewer for sewer rats.

    A, many, rabbis were caught with 9 yr olds, m/f. These were the “old” ones.

    Aisha bint Abu Bakr closer to 17 years of age.

    What we do know is what the Qur’an says about marriage: that it is valid only between consenting adults, and that a woman has the right to choose her own spouse. As the living embodiment of Islam, Muhammad’s actions reflect the Qur’an’s teachings on marriage

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth

  212. Seraphim says:
    @Thales the Milesian

    They are not only ‘not sorry’ for their ignorance, they pride in it.

  213. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Just saw this.

    Might have to wait another day. Patience, my brother.

    Not holding my breath these guys NEVER accept, they always back down when challenged to put skin in the game with real consequences.

    That’s OK, the crew at MT is having a laugh with me reporting yet another guy that has refused to accept the challenge and offered only poor excuses.

    Wa salaam.

  214. @AnonStarter

    Hahaha

    You agree with Mahomet than unless you pee like a girl you will go to Hell..

    • Replies: @anon
  215. @Talha

    Romans Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.

    Catholics worship God in the Holy Holocaust/Mass and we do not go about asking God to curse others.

    These challenges are so absurd as to be laughable and they are prof that your faith is as insane as it is evil.

    As a Catholic I would no more ask God to curse you than I would ask Him to destroy Mecca.

    I could not care less y’all think me a coward; one supposes, such a tactic would work with a 10 year old, but, come on…

    Adios, and remember to pee like a girl or you will go to Hell, per Mahomet.

    • Thanks: AaronB
    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Talha
  216. anon[327] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    …unless you pee like a girl…

    Girls say “pee”.

  217. Talha says:
    @Priss Factor

    Hey Priss, sorry it took so long for me to respond, but I wanted to make sure I read through all of this.

    Look, at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what I think; I’m not white, this new religion has nothing to do with me. But I do know one thing; internal coherency is absolutely vital to a viable religion.

    From an outsider’s perspective it is completely incoherent on basic definitional terms like “prophet” and the idea that you can have a special relationship with a God that you don’t even believe in. The power of religion is in connecting man to the Divine in a very real and visceral way (otherwise it is what you describe as Confucianism to be, which you criticized as being a set of rules and lacking vigor). Almost all the converts to Islam I know say “for the first time in my life, I don’t feel alone.”

    You keep on bringing up Jews, but the Jews actually believe that there IS a God Who mandated this special relationship. You think they made it up, but they certainly don’t. Religious Jews actually believe in what they teach their children – they don’t believe it is a lie handed down from generations. You are talking about LARPing religion, but religious parents don’t intentionally teach their kids things they know to be lies. They fully believe the religious precepts and thus are passing them on. You are talking about knowingly telling your kids lies (that you have a special relationship with a God Who doesn’t exist – it’s a it like what parents do with Santa Claus) to keep up a charade.

    What you are asking for is a kind of “will to power” in the vein of Nietzsche.

    It doesn’t matter if God doesn’t exist.

    No – it matters. It matters quite a bit otherwise the entire foundation of a “mandate of heaven” which allows for boldness is ripped out from under your feet. I want you to ponder on a couple of verses of the Qur’an:
    “They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it. It is He who sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth to manifest it over all religion, although those who associate others with Allah may dislike it.” (61:8-9)

    “Allah has decreed: ‘I will most certainly prevail, I and My messengers’; surely Allah is All-Powerful, Almighty.” (58:21)

    Believing in Islam is to believe in its ultimate success – not because of Muslim awesomeness (we are nobodies – we are servants – just like the early Arabs were “nobodies”), but often despite them – because it has the backing of God Himself. Only God talks that kind of bold talk through His prophets (pbut) and then backs it up with “facts on the ground”. Who says to his people (while they are a small band of men besieged in their city); Syria will be granted to them, Persia will be granted to them, Yemen will be granted to them (as in the hadith in the collection of Imam Ahmad [ra])…?

    As I said before, go for it and see how far you get, I’m certainly interested in an academic sense to observe since I have an interest in religions. Blacks tried with the NOI but they fizzled out relatively quickly and the majority of them simply became Sunni. Is that what will happen with what you are talking about? You put in the effort to create some white man’s religion and eventually they simply get absorbed by Christianity or something?

    You said; “I agree that prophetism is a tough sell.” It is indeed, there have been many inventors, many writers/poets, many military leaders, many statesmen, etc. but successful (to any modest degree) religious founders can be counted on your fingers and you’d likely have some to spare. The first person to believe the Prophet (pbuh) were his close family and friends – wife, cousins, nephews, best friend, etc. Those should easily be the first people that would also accept this vision of yours.

    As for the white race, it produced lots of great artists, thinkers/philosophers, scientists, warriors, explorers, and etc, but arguably hasn’t produced a single true prophet.

    We completely disagree. Whites have had prophets sent to them as Divine emissaries as others have (they have simply forgotten or lost this part of their history):
    “And verily We have raised in every nation a messenger, (proclaiming): ‘Serve Allah and shun false gods.’” (16:36)

    Anyway, give it your best shot – it’s something I’m looking forward to with interest.

    Peace.

  218. Talha says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    and we do not go about asking God to curse others.

    Oh – I see. You just cast insults that you know to be lies about historical figures without being willing to take any responsibility for them.

    These challenges are so absurd as to be laughable and they are prof that your faith is as insane as it is evil.

    Thanks for you opinion – let me know anytime you are ready to put your money where your mouth is. You know where to find me. The offer still stands.

    As a Catholic I would no more ask God to curse you

    And I’m not asking God to curse you and I’m not asking you to ask God to curse me. We are both asking God to curse the one who is lying – the one who deserves it in the matter. You know in your core you are lying so you are backing off and giving out high-sounding excuses.

    I could not care less y’all think me a coward

    Trust me – it’s not for you, chief. It’s for everyone else watching – the silent majority.

    Peace.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  219. Talha says:
    @Mick Jagger gathers no Mosque

    Wait a minute!!! I’ve got it! Here you go, here’s a way for you to show us how firmly you stand on your convictions without involving anyone else but yourself.

    As a Catholic I would no more ask God to curse you

    Good. Here’s how we can completely bypass all of that. You simply take an oath on YOUR own vis-a-vis your position and ask for God to curse only YOU if you are lying.

    Watch this:
    I swear that Muhammad ibn Abdullah, the man who claimed to be a prophet in the Hijaz in the 7th century was NOT a pedophile in the eyes of God, the Creator of the universe. May God’s curse and punishment be upon me if I am lying.

    See? Simple.

    Now you just copy and paste that in a reply and remove the word “NOT”. That will avoid the issue you brought up. How about it, homie?

    Peace.

  220. Che Guava says:
    @Pindos

    each broke their vows and passed on their vices.

  221. @Talha

    Oh – I see. You just cast insults that you know to be lies about historical figures without being willing to take any responsibility for them.

    Of course.

    Look at who “agrees” with him: the same hypocrite who routinely talks trash about Islam and then whines like a little girl when you proffer even the slightest criticism of Israel.

    That’s what these guys are all about: ringing doorbells and flaming bags of poop. Then when you actually nab one by the ear, he pleads his purity and innocence, “Oh, but I’m not the one who stands in judgment of you!”

    Paaa-thetic.

    There’s really nothing more substantive to what they offer. I would actually enjoy a more enlightened interfaith discussion that didn’t have to deteriorate into this, one in which the participants — in spite of their differences — could learn from each other without the need for such debased contention. There are a few here who occasionally shine that way. They’re sincere in their conviction, though well-mannered enough to keep it civil.

    I grew up around Catholics all my life. I attended mass every Sunday and completed an exhaustive confirmation process. I even considered the priesthood at one point. My favorite part of the liturgy wasn’t the homily — since the quality of it depended upon the priest — but rather, readings directly from the Bible, specifically those from the “canonical” Gospel, some of which resonated with such profound truth, it flushed my soul with light.

    So I know there’s decency among them, which reveals the great wisdom of God’s command to protect their houses of worship.

    But in the present exchange with our ostensible “Catholic,” one feels grimy, as if he’d just waded chest-deep through an old swamp.

    Let’s face it: He’s not going to take up the challenge. It tells us quite a bit about the weakness of his faith that he should be so cavalier in his conduct here, yet frightened to affirm his conviction before God when reminded of Him.

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  222. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    They’re sincere in their conviction, though well-mannered enough to keep it civil.

    Yup. I’ve had pretty good exchanges with those kinds of people.

    So I know there’s decency among them

    There is NO way I would cast his behavior against Catholics in general. I’ve known plenty of very nice Catholics in my day and age and I know brothers that work closely with them on policies of mutual concern for both our groups – they are natural allies in the fight against increasing degeneracy. On top of that, one of my own spiritual teachers told me of his very positive experience growing up in Pakistan as a young student of a Catholic school.

    No bro, these are the kinds of antics I naturally expect from JihadWatch fanboys:

    Let’s face it: He’s not going to take up the challenge.

    Too bad. I mean I even offered him a way to do it without any chance of cursing someone else, but – yeah – not holding my breath at him taking option 2 either.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  223. No bro, these are the kinds of antics I naturally expect from JihadWatch fanboys.

    Exactly.

    It’s the same kind of instigation that the Jews of Medina were involved in, beginning with crude remarks and veiled threats, then escalating into assault upon Muslim women, which was the red line.

    1400 years hence they still try to spin it as if the Muslims were just naturally belligerent.

    Don’t start none, won’t be none.

    was-salaam.

  224. @Talha

    “Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them.”

    1. Who here is “persecuting” him?
    2. With such “blessings” as his, who needs curses?

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  225. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Who here is “persecuting” him?

    I don’t know, I’m not supporting kicking over statues. It’s likely a sign of the times – victimhood mentality is pervasive; micro-aggressions and what not.

    Speaking of…when just the fact that your country still exists is enough to piss off people:
    Peace.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @RSDB
  226. @Talha

    Okay, had to unblock for that one.

    [laughing] Never saw a Turk with a fez while I was there, let alone a kebabçi. ALLAH, how I miss that stuff! Seasoned with fresh onion and parsley, chased with ice cold ayran …

    Just out of curiosity, are you aware of how the term “Urdu” came to describe the language of Pakistan?

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @Talha
  227. @AnonStarter

    Never saw a Turk with a fez while I was there

    All right, some guys do wear them in Beyazit, decanting cold cherry juice from long copper pitchers strapped to their backs. There may be a few others in the areas most traveled by tourists.

    Aside from these scant examples, it’s never worn.

    was-salaam.

  228. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    are you aware of how the term “Urdu” came to describe the language of Pakistan?

    Oh yeah, comes from the language of the “horde” (why “Urdu” sounds similar phonetically). They call it the “lashkari zabaan”, the language of the army/military; from the various Persianized Turkic people that conquered India.

    Aside from these scant examples, it’s never worn.

    Too bad, it looks great under lightly wrapped turban:
    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @AnonStarter
  229. @Talha

    JazakALLAHu khayran, akhi.

    Gotta love the turban.

    was-salaam.

  230. RSDB says:
    @Talha

    In Romans 12:14 the meaning is generally to be taken as: bless even those who persecute you; so, basically, bless everybody.

    St. Thomas says: he urges that benevolence be broad enough to include enemies when he says: bless those who persecute you.

    • Thanks: Talha
    • Replies: @Talha
  231. Talha says:
    @RSDB

    That makes sense, we have something similar in the Hanafi school for deriving rules.

    Peace.

  232. @Talha

    A little off-topic, akhi, but I’m wondering what you think about the information in the following document:

    https://fas.org/irp/dni/osc/libi.pdf

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @AnonStarter
  233. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    I honestly don’t pay attention to anything that comes out of those kinds of people. As far as I’m concerned, they are not qualified to opine on such matters so it’s a waste of time even reading their stuff.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  234. @AnonStarter

    “Abu Bakr al-Anbari, may God’s mercy be upon him, said: ‘On the term ‘spy’: Al-Jasus in Arabic is defined as being a person who tries to get information on people’s affairs. A man ‘Tajassasa’ or ‘Tahassasa’ have the same meaning, which is agreed upon unanimously by the professionals of linguistics.’ (Al-Zahir Fi Ma’ani Kalimat al-Nas, volume 1, page 319)

    “Thus, a spy is he who seeks to get information secretly in order to report it. He is also known as an ‘eye,’ the term which is commonly used by scholars and others. This is aimed to serve a general meaning or the metaphor. When a spy makes the shortcomings in the Muslim ranks the focal point of his eyes, he uses them to unveil every hidden thing. This spy is called an eye, whose focal point of activity is on everything. The Imam Ibn-Hajr, may God’s mercy be upon him, said: ‘A spy is called an eye, because all of his activity is centered in his eyes; through a spy’s concentration and thorough visualization, all his body seems to be an eye.’ (Fath al-Bari, volume 6, page 168)

    “Abd-al-Rahman al-Maydani said: ‘A metaphor is used in a singular form, as the use of ‘an eye’ to mean ‘a spy,’ who is assigned the task of getting information on the enemy’s conditions and report them, given that the eye is the major tool used in this matter.'(Al-Balaghah al-Arabiyah, Ususuha wa Ulumuha, page 666)

  235. @Talha

    Well, I have a different take.

    The cleverness of the material is that it bears the imprimatur of authority. The content is largely inarguable:

    “Almighty God says: ‘O ye who believe! Avoid suspicion (as much as possible): for suspicion in some cases is a sin: And spy not on each other behind their backs. Would any of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Nay, ye would abhor it…But fear Allah. For Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.’ [Koranic verse, Al-Hujurat, 49: 12]

    This verse completely forbids Muslims from spying on each other, whether this spying is by eavesdropping to learn the news, or by peeping to check on what goes on behind the doors. All of this is forbidden and must be avoided and shunned. Spying profoundly fills the hearts with malice and hatred. It causes dissension within groups, ruins societies, drives away trust and safety, propagates false suspicions, and spreads fake accusations. Spying also loosens people’s tongues to gossip, slander, defame, demean, and lie until Muslims have no privacy, homes have no protection, and societies have no defense. Deceptive eyes then prevail and sharp tongues criticize everyone, causing rift and discord among people, and spoil their relations with each other until the unified Muslim body is shredded into pieces. As a result, Muslims would have no union, kinship, or bond and then they become an easy target for their enemies, the human and demonic devils. Thus, one of Satan’s main goals is to instigate Muslims against each other, just as the prophet, God’s prayers and peace be upon him, said: ‘Satan gave up being worshipped by Muslims in the Arabian Peninsula, but he did not give up instigating them against each other,’ cited by Muslim, who reported Jabir, may God be pleased with him, as saying this.

    But for the overall representation of those advancing the argument, there’s an internal consistency to it that is undeniably impressive.

    At the very least, it’s possible to see the capacity of its persuasion, is it not?

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  236. @Talha

    And what exactly did you do to halt the advance of genocidal bolshevik hordes into Europe?

    Hitler and his nazis fought heroically. You are in no position to critique them. Western Europe ought to be much more grateful because if it weren’t for Hitler all of Europe would have been one massive gulag by the end of the 40s, and the NWO would have been “accomplished” by the end of the 50s.

    How remarkable of Hitler to prevent that. What did Rangard and Lavey do again, apart from write larpy angsty books?

  237. @Malla

    Thank you, and much appreciated.

  238. I always pay attention when the MOB symbolism appears as a kind of signature but then again it probably signifies very different things to different people. In Islam and Christianity (Late Egyptian as well) it alludes to virtual dualism. Classical Egyptian is not and neither is the OT.

  239. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Even a broken clock can be right twice a day.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  240. @Talha

    Okay, so arguendo, if the party advancing the assertions concerning spying weren’t al Qa’eda, but rather, righteous, the essential content wouldn’t be so objectionable, correct?

    My question arises because there is actually a constituency of self-proclaimed Muslims who rationalize hacking others’ computers for information due to suspicion of them. This group argues that, since these individuals constitute a kind of “threat” due to the nature of their convictions, they are a permissible target, even if they proclaim shahada. They also assert that tracking the online activity of these individuals is also fair game.

    But there is another element to that paper that intrigues me …

    I’m reminded that an argument may be quite compelling regardless of the worldview held by its authors. As such, at the end of the day, the intellect becomes an insufficient implement by which to place implicit trust in the party advancing it, and we are left with nothing more than a decision that necessitates faith.

    Even hadith science itself doesn’t escape this phenomenon. The integrity of a chain of transmission is dependent entirely upon faith in the probity of every link therein, and even upon those entrusted with safeguarding the record once it reached a written form. So many centuries removed, we aren’t able to actually confirm that so-and-so was reliable or unreliable — with the possible exception of those performing a very thorough, exhaustive analysis. We either trust that the individual compiling and authenticating was flawless in his work or perhaps not entirely.

    Anyways, just some thoughts for consideration.

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  241. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Okay, so arguendo, if the party advancing the assertions concerning spying weren’t al Qa’eda, but rather, righteous, the essential content wouldn’t be so objectionable, correct?

    I mean, it’s not like al-Qaeda are the only ones to come to that conclusion. Spying on others is prohibited by the sacred law – this is a traditional view and a general principle. Maybe exceptions to the rule might be allowed for provable threats to society (you know, with probable cause and due process).

    My question arises because there is actually a constituency of self-proclaimed Muslims who rationalize hacking others’ computers for information due to suspicion of them.

    These are scholars advocating this??!!

    We either trust that the individual compiling and authenticating was flawless in his work or perhaps not entirely.

    Well, that’s why hadith scrutiny has always been going on and goes on to this day; even in modern times, men like Shaykh Shuayb Arnaut and the Ghimari brothers of Morocco, the late Shaykh Albani (ra) and Shaykh Zakariyya Khandlawi (ra) of India, etc.

    Wa salaam.

  242. Maybe exceptions to the rule might be allowed for provable threats to society (you know, with probable cause and due process).

    Ah, there’s the linchpin: exceptions … provable threats … probable cause and due process.

    But what is a “provable threat”?

    Does an expressed opinion constitute a provable threat? Should it? If so, then does this sanctify — or, at a minimum, allow — surveillance against the party holding the opinion?

    These are scholars advocating this??!!

    I would think that futuwah have been given by national religious ministries to leaders of predominantly Muslim countries in order to sanction the type of strictly regulated surveillance you refer to as an “exception.” I have no direct textual evidence of this, but it’s actually an easy inference to make when you take a moment to think about it.

    All nation-states have some type of security/intel apparatus in place. It’s a fard kifayah and the only individuals in dar al-Islam for whom it’s halal to approach any individual with su-i zann (suspicion) is an officer of that apparatus.

    Some jama’at call the head of security “sharif.”

    I’ve been meaning to ask you something else …

    Are you familiar with the work of Ahmad Hasan, author of Principles of Islamic Juriprudence and The Doctrine of Ijma’ in Islamic Jurisprudence?

    was-salaam.

    • Replies: @Talha
  243. Talha says:
    @AnonStarter

    Does an expressed opinion constitute a provable threat? Should it? If so, then does this sanctify — or, at a minimum, allow — surveillance against the party holding the opinion?

    Good questions; this essentially is the slippery-slope analysis. Honestly, above my pay grade and it may well differ from place to place and region to region; what may constitute a provable threat to one society may not to another. I wish I had an answer.

    Some jama’at call the head of security “sharif.”

    I’m not sure I get all this, but I will say that the level of internal spying upon citizens in many Muslim nations is horrendous and has a very, very flimsy justification. They seem to just spy on everyone with or without probable cause.

    Are you familiar with the work of Ahmad Hasan, author of Principles of Islamic Juriprudence and The Doctrine of Ijma’ in Islamic Jurisprudence?

    No, I don’t believe I have heard of those before.

    Wa salaam.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
  244. @Talha

    I wish I had an answer.

    May ALLAH reward your honesty.

    I’m not sure I get all this

    Occasionally, I like to talk shop and learn whatever I can in the process. I value your input in that respect.

    They seem to just spy on everyone with or without probable cause.

    Absurd, isn’t it?

    Oh, there’s a small correction I need to make:

    I mentioned Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence while I originally meant to cite Early Development of Islamic Jurisprudence — that and the text on ijma’.

    Recommended books.

    was-salaam.

    • Thanks: Talha
    • Replies: @Talha
  245. dimples says:
    @Kevin Barrett

    “Today, thanks to Rene Girard and other anthropologists, we understand that all pagan idols are monuments to human sacrifice”

    Personally, I would see Rene Girard as a typical French philosopher, ie somebody whose writings are to be strenuously avoided for the reason that they are generally works of idiocy, such as one would automatically recognises are also the post-modernist types like Derrida etc.

    I have to say that in my opinion whatever the Quran says about the worship of idols is deeply uninteresting as far as I am concerned. The Quran, although a poetic masterpiece, is an entirely derivative work as far as it’s religion is concerned. I might point out that Christianity is also a religion of human sacrifice. The doctrine of atonement posits that Christ’s suffering and execution was the payment for the expiation of original sin. If you believe this you will believe anything, so Christianity is not much better. As a student of the paranormal I prefer science to whatever an ex-CIA person, or the religious book, says, so cannot comment on the demon business unless some empirical evidence is provided.

    • Replies: @AnonStarter
    , @dimples
  246. @dimples

    The Quran, although a poetic masterpiece, is an entirely derivative work as far as it’s religion is concerned.

    This is a common criticism: “These are but old fairy tales.”

    It comes with the territory of keeping faith with a sempiternal God whose message has always been with humankind in some way, shape, or form. It’s going to appear “derivative” because human nature doesn’t change very much and, as such, His guidance and wisdom for us usually remains largely unchanged.

  247. dimples says:
    @dimples

    I might point out that if you are a Muslim and also believe in etheric or spirit beings such as demons or jinns then you are probably an apostate. Since Allah is the one God, ie an etheric or spirit being by definition, I don’t see any difference here. Could you explain at some point in time perhaps?

    • Replies: @Talha
    , @Jack McArthur
  248. Talha says:
    @dimples

    Since Allah is the one God, ie an etheric or spirit being by definition

    Uh no. Just no.

    Peace.

  249. @dimples

    The raising of H.S. is pretty much standard in Christianity and Islam to excuse violence and the suppression of anything which contradicts one-god-ism. Of course its basically tosh. The cultural demolition of the Americas post Columbus was going to happen no matter what. The monks recorded how ones selected for human sacrifice would dance for joy because not only did they believe they were saving the cosmos and their own people but assuring their own prosperous afterlife.

    The idea of giving up something voluntary for a greater good is understandable. Jesus is recorded as saying that there was no greater love by man than laying down his life to save a friend and that too is understandable to most people. Soldiers sacrifice their lives … Jesus takes the punishment for the …
    Suicide bombers do evil in their “sacrifice” and the murder of innocents. Christianity had to deal with this issue at the turn of the 3/4th century when zealots were attacking pagan shrines. They were denied the crown of martyrdom because it was considered suicide. The same applies to Islam and for the same reasons but as can be seen in the modern world this teaching seems to have been conveniently dropped by people inspired more by politics than by spirit.

    • Replies: @anon
  250. If my reply to Dimples above should ever appear then here are some supporting citations:

    “Friar Marcus de Nica in 1539, speaking of the Chichimeecas …. they of this valley casts lots whose luck (honour) it shall be to be sacrificed, and they make him great cheer, on whom the lotte falleth…… By which it appears the victim “took great pleasure” in being sacrificed. He was afterwards beatified, and worshipped that year.”
    (Ancient Rights and Ceremonies,.Grace A. Murray, p. 19)

    “The annals of the early friars recount a number of instances in which brave enemies were offered their freedom by their Aztec captors captors; they voluntarily choose the sacrificial knife instead”
    (Teotihuacan, Karl E. Meyer, p. 89)

    “This verse is also understood generally to outlaw suicide and other forms of self harm”.
    (The Quran, A. S. Abdel Haleem, p. 22)

    “it was certainly a problem by the end of the third century in Spain, when idol smashers sought the reward of martyrdom and the Church felt compelled to deny it to them”.
    (Christianity & Paganism in the Fourth to Eighth Centuries”Centuries, Ramsay MacMullen, p. 15)

  251. https://twitter.com/i/status/1277419635185537024 In Chicago we see blacks do not need policing. Obviously they have a process to handle violence:
    Step 1 – Pull up your pants
    Step 2 – Shoot the brother multiple times.

    In Seattle, Chopistani Defense Forces execute 2 unarmed young black boys while claiming they were white supremacists.

    The DNC has proven Black Lives Matter, just count the bodies of dead blacks over the last 3 weeks since George Floyd has died.

    200 dead blacks that have been reported….. 9.52 killed a day or 66.7 killed per week.

    Black Lives Matter!!!! BWHAHAHA!!!!

  252. anon[119] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack McArthur

    what is H.S.?

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