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Max Roser does great work at “Our World in Data”, virtually all of which I read and retweet approvingly. He has just written a paper calculating the amount of economic growth which will be required to lift people out of poverty. Lots and lots of growth, he argues.

https://ourworldindata.org/poverty-minimum-growth-needed

I think it likely that lots of economic growth will be required, and am not questioning his thesis in growth terms. It is his particular explanations about the cause of poverty which I find unlikely. Here are some examples:

One of the most important insights of economics is that people live in poverty not because of who they are, but because of where they are. A person’s knowledge, their skills, and how hard they work all matter for whether they are poor or not – but all these personal factors together matter less than the one factor that is entirely outside of a person’s control: whether the place they happen to be born into has a large, productive economy or not.

It seems unlikely that all those personal factors matter less. Jews living virtually anywhere tend to do well, and usually very well. Also, the Chinese do well. The most important thing about Singapore is not the mosquitoes. It’s the Chinese. There are other economic elites, for example in India, who do far better than other Indians, and better than most people elsewhere. Roser implies that human capital, as economists call it, counts for relatively little, and geography counts for far more. Some people “happen to be born into” large productive economies. Some places happen to have those economies lying about, and other countries don’t. It is the luck of the draw where you are born.

A person who happens to be born into a country where the average income is low is almost certainly living in poverty.

Not necessarily. A Japanese person born in Brazil is unlikely to live in poverty. “Happens to be born” is an odd phrase. What is meant, I think, is that people are usually born in a national economy which their parents and grandparents have created. According to what they have built, children growing up in that country will have inherited a different set of circumstances which influence their opportunities. He seems to rank the location more important than the people. Furthermore, circumstances are not insurmountable. A nation state can eradicate mosquitoes if it puts its mind to it. American engineers built the Panama canal, where others had failed before, by the same intervention.

Another reason to think that many countries in the world can make progress against poverty in the future is to consider some of the reasons that were holding these countries back in the past. One important reason why a large number of people live in poverty today is that these countries were exploited by colonial powers that did not allow those economies to grow and instead impoverished them. The actions of rich countries still harm the prospects of poorer countries in many ways, but the end of colonialism was extremely important for the prospects of billions of people in the world and since the end of colonial rule many former colonies did substantially reduce poverty.

If colonial occupation is truly an important factor, then one would expect the nation which liberated itself most recently would be among the poorest, but that is not true of Hong Kong, which was liberated from British rule only in 1997. Also, it leaves out any comparison of the post-colonial achievements of different countries. East Asian countries have made gains which are larger than African countries, though at the time of gaining independence several African states like Kenya seemed to have better prospects than East Asian ones.

Also, if colonialism were an important reason for poverty in Africa then the bad management of a country up till say 1965 would seem to last for at least 56 years. I take 1965 as an average date for African countries throwing off colonial status. They have had 56 years of freedom, and the thesis is that their current poverty is in large part due to their colonial past.

That 56 year hangover would suggest that the exceptionally bad mismanagement of the leadership of Germany and Japan culminating in their destruction in 1945 would still be having deleterious economic effects on those countries in 2001, but in fact both were powerhouses of the world economy by then, and had already substantially recovered by the 1970s.

It is a sideline, but colonialism was practiced by different countries in different ways, and possibly with different apparent outcomes. Sociologists Lange, Mahoney and Hau (2006) have argued that mercantilist Spain colonized areas which were previously densely populated and developed, and Spanish colonialism had negative consequences for post-colonial development; liberal Britain colonized sparsely populated under-developed areas, which had positive consequences for post-colonial development. They did not consider human capital measures, but have a useful list of how long colonialism lasted for each country, and how extensive it was in terms of its influence, both helpful indicators.

https://doi.org/10.1086/499510

A more cynical view held by many Africans is that after liberation the old colonialism was taken over by a new African tribe called the WaBenzi, who mistreated the people of Africa in the most terrible way, stealing from them, corrupting their institutions and destroying their economies. They were named after the cars they drove.

If colonialism is the source of poverty, then it would be good to look at the pre-colonial world, say in the year 1500. By common consent among economic historians, at that time sub-saharan Africa was already a poor part of the world. This is attributed to the fact that Sub-Saharan Africa, already handicapped by diseases, lacked the advantages of the advanced agricultural societies, productive agriculture, diversified manufacturing and the necessary institutional and cultural resources (writing, the maths needed for land surveying, a written legal code, etc) to advance. The slave trade and colonialism would only exacerbate the situation.

Although Roser mentions education, he does not give the comparative figures for different nations, particularly comparing the post-colonial scholastic achievement of former colonies. Asia does well, despite previous poverty, Africa far less so. Here are the Maths scores for countries, including former colonies, including African countries who most of them don’t take part in international assessments, in this case derived from TIMMS items which were included in pan-African scholastic tests. Note that Singapore and Hong Kong were colonies, but do exceptionally well. Malaysia was colonised by the Portuguese, then the Dutch, and does well. Much further down the list, Indonesia had the same colonial sequence. The pattern does not show a convincing primary effect of damaging colonialism.

https://www.unz.com/jthompson/africa-and-the-cold-beauty-of-maths/

An excellent economic history of the world was written by David Landes. His meticulous study included studying the history of industrialization in Africa, and the problems encountered. His tentative conclusions about the behaviours which lead to wealth could be summarised in one word: innovate.

Here are his more detailed suggestions.

Ideal case for material progress and general enrichment:

  1. Master new technology. Build, manage and operate instruments of production.
  2. Teach this knowledge to the young, by formal education or apprenticeships.
  3. Choose people for jobs by competence and relative merit; promote and demote on the basis of performance.
  4. Afford opportunity to individual or collective enterprise; encourage initiative, competition and emulation.
  5. Allow people to enjoy and employ the fruits of their labour and enterprise.

Corollaries

Gender equality, no discrimination on the basis of irrelevant criteria, preference for scientific rationality over magic and superstition.

Political and social institutions which favour progress and enrichment

  1. Secure rights of private property, the better to encourage saving and investment.
  2. Secure rights of personal liberty.
  3. Enforce rights of contract, explicit and implicit.
  4. Provide stable government, of laws rather than men.
  5. Provide responsive government, that will hear complaints and make redress.
  6. Provide honest government: no rents to favour or position.
  7. Provide moderate, efficient, ungreedy government, holding taxes down, giving back surpluses and avoiding privilege.

https://www.unz.com/jthompson/david-landes-economic-historian/

Landes was reluctant to talk about culture making a difference between one set of peoples and another. He was somewhat apologetic, saying that culture had sulphurous connotations. Odd. One should look for explanations wherever one can find them, and evaluate their contribution energetically. Culture is a collection of habits, both good and bad, which have developed over time in response to problems, and contain solutions of varying levels of appropriateness and success. People compare cultures, and pick up the ideas and products which they find useful. The wheel took a long time to invent. Some cultures never achieved it. Those that did gained an advantage. Some cultures are better than others in prospering in competition with each other.

Someone who did not fear looking at whether people and their cultures lead to wealth or poverty is Heiner Rindermann. His studies and conclusions can be found in “Cognitive Capitalism” (2018). We first worked together on that concept in 2011.

https://www.unz.com/jthompson/cognitive-capitalism-2/

Here is his global model in one picture.

You will see that, in his analysis of a large country dataset, latitude and natural resources count for very little, but evolutionary background and cognitive ability have far more influence, mediated by downstream cultural factors. His view is based on the study of cognitive and scholastic levels, and to a lesser extent on historical indicators of innovation.

I think that when discussing why some countries are rich and others poor, one should consider a broader range of explanations than “happening to be born” in a place. If colonialism is proposed as a major cause, rather than a possible contributing factor, then specific evidence should be provided.

 
• Category: Economics, Science • Tags: Education, Free market, Human Biodiversity, IQ 
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  1. anonymous[155] • Disclaimer says:

    Despite of middle class job income, I still achieved 1% top wealth after 30 years of investing in USA.

    The performing records from 2004 to 2018.
    S&P500 CAGR at 8.78%.
    The retail investors with CAGR at 5.4%.
    The professionals with CAGR at 5.2%.
    My own CAGR at 15%.

    On average, retail investors beat the professionals. Both group underperformed the index. At the same time, my CAGR is at 15%. I am an East Asian who faced all kind of discriminations and have weak verbal social skill. But I still achieved financial freedom purely through my own effort. I retired into country surrounded by my own land and tenant farmers.

  2. dearieme says:

    Malaysia was colonised by the Portuguese, then the Dutch, and then the British and then the Japanese. My wife met a Malaysian who said her mother was a great fan of the British. “Why?” “Because she remembers the Japanese.”

    As for culture: there’s a story, presumably apocryphal, of an Indian student asking an Indian historian how tiny numbers of British could conquer such a huge number of Indians. “Because they didn’t betray each other.”

  3. Some Guy says:

    Europe had trains before most of Africa had the wheel. Underdevelopment is the cause of being colonized, not the effect of being colonized.

  4. dearieme says:

    Malaysia was colonised by the Portuguese, then the Dutch, and then the British and then the Japanese.

    Come to think of it, it had been colonised by Moslems after being colonised by Hindus and Buddhists after being colonised by ….

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  5. martin_2 says:

    Countries that were colonised experienced unprecedented increases in their native populations.

    Countries colonised are generally better off now than their neighbours that weren’t. Pakistan better off than Afghanistan. Hong Kong better off than China. Kenya better off than Somalia. The wealthiest African countries are Botswana and Gabon, both former colonies.

    Haiti has been independent for over two hundred years, and is the poorest country in the Northern hemisphere. All African countries have had plenty of time to overcome the supposed depredations of colonisation. As the author points out. It took Germany and Japan about twenty years after the war to be economic and industrial giants again.

    Blaming colonisation for Africa’s problems is obviously nonsense. The reason it is done is because the truth – low IQ – is humiliating for blacks and embarrassing for some whites to acknowledge, so therefore we have to play this make believe game of white man bad. Ultimately it does no-one any good to deny obvious truths since you might not be interested in reality but reality is interested in you.

    • Agree: Mark G., Marckus
    • Troll: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Mokiki
  6. ruralguy says:

    Economics is a dismal science, because much of its foundation is in human behaviors. Some of this is reflected in his Global model, under respect for rule of law and government effectiveness. But, lack of trust in others, corruption, and many other type of behaviors have a huge influence on economic function. Another is his “where a person happens to be born” criteria. He is quite right about that. In the mathematics of economics, the number of network connections, structure in the connections, and the randomness matter significantly. The U.S. benefits because it is a key network node in all world trade, in all categories of capital.

  7. Chinaman says:
    @anonymous

    It is easy to make 15% ( and much more)below 100 million.

    Once you get in the big boy’s club, your returns start looking more and more like the S&P. It is 1000 times more difficult to make 100 million compared to 1 million.

    Top 1% and retiring? That’s underachieving given your IQ compared to Whites. That is, unless you are an low IQ East Asian.

    As East Asian, you should be able to squeeze yourself into the top 0.01% in America in the last 40 years given most of the money is made in tech and finance.

  8. @dearieme

    Malaysia was colonised by … Moslems after being colonised by Hindus and Buddhists after being colonised by ….

    Very good point.

    One’s perspective is very much influenced by which dimensions of an issue are considered important.

    On that basis, one may speculate that the entire Western world is in the process of being colonized by Satanists, led by none other than World Emporer-in-waiting Gates.

  9. Chinaman says:

    This correlation chart in the article described the economy the 1970s and does not reflect the economy as it is now. It miss a number of critical factors that determines GDP.

    We are in the age of abundance and productivity is no longer the sole component that determine GDP as most economists believe. The virtualisation of the economy and plummeting marginal cost of production due to digitisation have changed the structure of the economy. There is an increasing bifurcation in the economy in the sense that there are sectors which have infinitely scalable and sectors that are not. Oil and natural resources consumed per unit of GDP have reduced by a an order of magnitude since the 1940. Lower population growth and change in demographics also made productivity much less important. The capitalist distribution have become even more fat-tailed and “winner take all” so most “work” and production is going to waste. Most industries are in a state of overcapacity. Robotics as demonstrated by Boston Dynamic will change the service industry. Perhaps only 10% of the population is needed to work in the near future.

    Agriculture only makes up 2% of GDP now and here’s the shocker, lawyers also make up 2% of GDP. How can Lawyers contribute as much to the economy as food? It is estimated that on average each excess lawyer knocks $1 million off US gross domestic product every year. The rule of law is not what it is made out to be. Just some sanctimonious crap white peoples to feel better about their incompetent government which just killed millions of its own people through nothing but its own incompetence. Well…the people deserve its governance.

    There are also threshold effects and network effect for certain industry. You can’t have a semiconductor industry if your smart faction is below a absolute number of people. So Australia and NZ will never have a semiconductor industry and its supply chain since the number of people above 130 IQ is too small, on an absolute basis, to justify the investment in such industries. White people can’t even build their own cars! The absolute amount of IQ points in a country matters a lot. Funny Americans think Semiconductor actually matter. It is so 1980s. AI and robotics is the key. Whoever builds the first AI robotic army will rule the world of course. Aircraft carriers and F35 are a joke.

    We are in a new paradigm in which the ability to consume is more important than the ability to produce. Classical Economics have been turned on its head and wrong in most regards. This is where the financial capitalism and finance comes in. Most consumption are made on credit.

    The efficiency at which a society can facilitate credit, population growth, the size of the population, innate marginal propensity to spent are the most critical components for economic growth in the future now.

    The iPhone was invented in America because there is a large enough middle class to justify the investment of such products. You need a large enough population to achieve such the economies of scale required to lower the cost of production for an iPhone. Even then, America cannot do it alone and need China since white people productivity is about 6%-20% slower on the same job. There is no iPhone and Apple without China.

    East Asians’s marginal propensity to save is 30%. This is stable across most East Asian economies. White People, as evident by the $400 that the average American have, is about zero. Blacks are around the same. This relates to time preference and the ability of a people to delay gratification of course.

    The adoption of western capitalism in East Asia which is incompatible with Asian’s genotype and 2000 years of Confucian cultural values which have led to inadvertent consequences such as the drastic lowering of birth rate, the breakdown of the traditional family unit and various social ills.

    This fundamental behaviour\genetic difference explains why Japan is have its 3rd lost decade and America’s economy is still growing despite all the headwinds. The gap in the marginal propensity to spend between rich and the poor explains everything from the 2008 financial crisis, trade deficits , Revolutions and big governments which is 50% of GDP. Again, Ivory tower economics is turned on its head. Saving is bad, reckless borrowing for unproductive consumption is good. Inflation and money printing is at the nexus of all these variables because it allows the debt to be inflated away and slate wipe clean. Productivity gains in an economy is sustained by ever more wasteful habits and consumption that is unsustainable in the long term of course. How many Ferraris does one need ? I know people who own 150 Ferraris. I am on my 10th. In a post-industrial and post-capitalism society, the directing of consumption from reality to the virtual is critical for economic growth but it also creates a conundrum in the sense that this process is inherently deflationary and inimical to financial capitalism. I guess that’s when stimulus check will become UBI. One you set a precedent, it creates a moral hazard in that society will create similar conditions to get what it wants. COVID have really change everything.

    I wouldn’t write off low IQ countries like India and Africa completely. They might have a larger economy than China someday simply by the fact the brown\black horde have the ability to consume more than they earn…and that the Chinese save more than they consume. As long as the Chinese is willing to finance those consumption patterns by recycling its savings, which it doesn’t have much choice. (and that those debt can be inflated away), this could create a virtuous cycle.

    This is the same thing that is happening in America.

    China is about 20 years away from destroying America and COVID just accelerated that timeline. The elites realise it of course but I believe is too late. We already brought off Wall St and Goldman. COVID kind of mess up the timeline and everything was supposed to coincide with the demographic tipping point in American in which browns and blacks are 50% of the population.

    The Chinese outcompetes Americans in every field so we will use predatory capitalism to kill off all of America’s industry. Make America the crackwhore of our industry and stuck in a form of debt peonage. Spoil America rotten such that it will Americans will forget to do anything himself. (You just outsource it or buy it on alibaba.) Then, at the right moment, we will turn off the tap of course…

    COVID kind of mess up the timeline and everything was supposed to coincide with the demographic tipping point in American in which browns and blacks are 50% of the population.

  10. J says:
    @anonymous

    In the USA, the top one percent of household net worth starts at $11,099,166. It is seems improbable that the commenter achieved that goal. May be he is thinking of 1% of Indonesia or Philippines. The reference to tenant farmers also appears to indicate a country like that. Retiring to live in the Indonesian countryside is not my idea of a good old age. Correct me please if I am wrong.

  11. anonymous[155] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chinaman

    “The big question about how people behave is whether they’ve got an Inner Scorecard or an Outer Scorecard. It helps if you can be satisfied with an Inner Scorecard.”— Warren Buffett

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  12. anonymous[155] • Disclaimer says:
    @J

    Yes, I am above 1% wealth in the USA. For the past 30+ years, my investment record was actually at CAGR at about 20%. I am a classic value investor who seeked out obscured small caps with deep value. It is also true that larger your investment cap, harder to play small stocks, like Chinaman suggested. Most my farmlands are in the Midwest, and also have some ranching properties in the west. My taste for productive farmland is similar to Bill Gates. Some of his lands are adjacent to mines. American tenant farmers have income similar to physicians. My own tenant farmers have average $300k annual income, who are top 1% wealthy people themselves. They are the best people I know in America. We are good friends also. I chose to retire when my investment income was 5 times of my job income many years ago.

    “I ran into him (Charlie Munger)  in about 1960 and told him that law was fine as a hobby but he could do better.”- Warren Buffett

    “I didn’t intend to get rich. I wanted to get independence. I just overshot.” – Charlie Munger

    “If you are so smart, how come I am so rich?” – Warren Buffett. Obviously Warren Buffett’s politically incorrect view of mental ability.

  13. @dearieme

    Same with my brother’s Malaysian in-laws. It should be remembered that the Malaysians (well a sultan) invited the British to come – they paid rent on their naval bases. Then the British acquired the Dutch bit in a European war. Story of the Empire really.

    I assume that the Indian professor had Mir Jaffar in mind. Despite French propaganda, he did not commit suicide. He ended up as a landowner in Bengal thanks to a grateful Sultan.

    • Replies: @Old Brown Fool
  14. @Chinaman

    Indian take aways outperform Chinese take aways in the UK with staff numbers.

  15. Tulip says:
    @J

    If you are earning 15% CAGR, your money should double every 4.8 years. Investing for 30 years, you are looking at 2 to the 6th power or 64 X your initial capital. You would only need to start with ~173K in initial capital. You would need more to do it cumulatively, but there is no reason you couldn’t save that kind of money over 10 or 20 years. Besides which, you only need about 2.0 million USD to be a useless eater with a middle class income. Say he’s “only” got 4.0 mil USD, that’s more money than anyone without a heroin or a gambling addiction can spend.

  16. Colonialism never ended, it just morphed into “human rights”. Africa would do better if fair treaties were honoured.

  17. Jorge Videla [AKA "amerikaner"] says:

    Jews living virtually anywhere tend to do well, and usually very well.

    1. this is false today and especially false in the past.

    2. jews have lots of qualities that aren’t personal (individual). jews collectively have qualities unlike other peoples’.

    try again you nauseating thatcherite (pushy shop girl) philosemite.

    • Agree: Theophrastus
  18. Chinaman says:
    @J

    You really don’t have any idea about wealth or Asia, do you?

    I am from Hong Kong. Guys here tell me you shouldn’t say you are rich unless you have a billion US. I am kind of poor here.

    You can’t even buy a decent apartment here with 11m. The US is a communist totalitarian state compared to where I am from.

    I know guys with a car collections that are 100m. We don’t have ONE Ferrari and say we made it. A decent collection is 30 cars of McLaren, Lambos and Ferraris. That’s too much depreciation for me. Personally, I am into F1 cars and collects them.

    The average white dude have a social status of that of a Mexican here. I have a bunch working for me in the fields.

    You guys have no fucking idea.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Philip Owen
  19. JosephB says:

    It seems unlikely that all those personal factors matter less. Jews living virtually anywhere tend to do well, and usually very well. Also, the Chinese do well.

    Would you rather be:
    1. At the 90th percentile for wealth in a poor country (10th percentile for per capita gdp ppp) — e.g., Madagascar, Chad, Liberia
    or
    2. At the 10th percentile for wealth in a rich country (90th percentile per capital gdp ppp) — e.g., Belgium, Finland, Canada?

    I’ll take option #2.

    Bringing up the Chinese and Jews seems a bit unfair, as they are able to often leverage an overseas network of people who are residing in functional countries. That is a huge advantage. You could argue that such contacts are a personal factor, but they seem more closely connected to the article’s argument that location matters more than characteristics.

  20. Chinaman says:
    @anonymous

    I know a lot of muti -billionaires so I am quite poor. I am thinking you would be in the bottom 10% of wealth in my distribution based on what you said. It is all relative, I guess.

    Important thing is that you think you are in the 1% and happy about it. The high tax you paid paying prevents compounding so you would have been a billionaire if not.

    If you are still investing using discretion instead of a more systematic and quantitative approach, it is true you should probably retire.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
  21. Wally says:
    @Some Guy

    Colonial powers supposedly ‘devastated’ Africa by taking Africa’s resources, yet everything that the colonials supposedly took away is still there for Africans to do with what they want.

    As for black slavery, it only existed because Africans sold their own slaves.
    recommended:
    African chiefs urged to apologise for slave trade / Nigerian civil rights group says tribal leaders’ ancestors sold people to slavers and should say sorry: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/nov/18/africans-apologise-slave-trade
    “African chiefs were the ones waging war on each other and capturing their own people and selling them. If anyone should apologise it should be the African chiefs. We still have those traitors here even today.”
    The Truth About Slavery: https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/08/the_truth_about_slavery.html
    ‘When Europeans Were Slaves: Research Suggests White Slavery Was Much More Common Than Previously Believed’
    https://news.osu.edu/when-europeans-were-slaves–research-suggests-white-slavery-was-much-more-common-than-previously-believed/
    “Neither black nor white Americans have a clue that whites were enslaved by people of color. This allows blacks to claim to be the only victims of slavery.”

    • Replies: @anon
  22. Not necessarily. A Japanese person born in Brazil is unlikely to live in poverty.

    Swiss farmers who grow pineapples in West-Africa for example are doing quite well too (ahh – oh yes, they do exist. and yes again: Their fruits are tasty – a last yes, I know from experience, because I buy them at times). Same as Swiss craftspeople. – You can always argue though that that’s because they were happy enough to be born in Switzerland – or to stem from Switzerland, even. – This argumentative structure is a perpetuum mobile.

    https://www.srf.ch/play/tv/eco/video/afrika-serie-schweizer-exportiert-ananas-aus-ghana?urn=urn:srf:video:18027f1f-e071-4c25-8060-24fe396850a4

    • Replies: @Schuetze
  23. @anonymous

    Chinese Inner Scorecard – US citizens Outer Scorecard – – is this what you are saying?

    What about Warren Buffet then?

    • Replies: @gnbRC
  24. Schuetze says:

    [((Max Roser))] has just written a paper calculating the amount of economic growth which will be required to lift people out of poverty. Lots and lots of growth, he argues.

    I invested some time to try to determine if this bozo is a Jew. I could not find any information about his family or religion, but the name, his position at Oxford, and his ultra-liberal Weltanschauung is proof enough for me: he is either a jew or a freemason, likely both. Plus this guy is a moron, and Jews are of course the planets biggest morons.

    Rosen is a true useful idiot believer in all the globalist causes including:
    a) Covid
    b) mRNA “Vaccination”
    c) Global Warming
    d) Sustainable Development
    e) “Global Equality”

    The only mind control agenda item he misses out on is globo-homo. My real issue here is with his book which is full of drivel about the amount of “growth” required to lift the world out of “poverty”. This Great Reset is foremost about the genocide of billions of people. Claiming you are lifting people out of poverty while you are trying to murder them is almost as monstrous as murdering your own people in the labor camps and then labelling it “The Holocaust” in order to blame it on Germany and collect generations of reparations. But it gets worse. Clearly one part of the Great Reset is the “food revolution” which aims to starve the west and make them eat bugs and plastic burgers just like people in the developing world, not the other way around. Poverty in essence means owning nothing. Schwab has told us that we will own nothing and be happy, yet we have to listen to this globalist idiot Rosen prattling on about lifting people out of “poverty”.

    The crux of the issue here is that achieving enough growth to lift the hundreds of millions of Africans, Indians and Muslims being born every year out of “poverty” while reaching Paris Accord and Agenda 2030 zero carbon and “sustainability” diktats is beyond absurd. This is typical judaic gaslighting of goyim,

    This hypocrite Rosen may not be a jew, but he is certainly not one of us, he is certainly not a member of humanity.

    • Disagree: Thulean Friend
    • Replies: @Chris Moore
  25. Bert says:
    @Chinaman

    Interesting analysis.

    Questions:

    1) As your scenario becomes reality, what effect will that have on the conservation of natural land and the restoration of denuded land into semi-natural ecosystems?

    2) Will China choose to use its power to achieve world-wide progress, or will it merely become another exploitative empire?

  26. @Chinaman

    Solid comment. Everyone should read this – twice.

    Here the evil Chinaman lays out the history of the next fifty years, at least.

    Of course, there’s more to it than Chinese mercantile dominance. Resources will run out, and infrastructure will break down faster than OBOR can fix it. I think Africa and India will collapse in on themselves rather than, or soon after achieving, larger economies. No kind of economy can sustain half a billion Nigerians.

    Second part of Anglin’s latest is highly relevant: https://dailystormer.su/ohio-weird-crisis-actor-chinaman-gives-blm-style-victim-speech/

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  27. Anonymous[357] • Disclaimer says:

    Hong Kong, that fragrant harbour, didn’t “liberate itself”, England’s lease ran out.

    Thomas Sowell has addressed all these issues in longer form in Conquests and Cultures.

    “Say he’s “only” got 4.0 mil USD, that’s more money than anyone without a heroin or a gambling addiction can spend.”

    I will prove you wrong in a year for 4 million $. That’s 2 houses, one Maybach and zero Learjets.

  28. Africa’s economic woes are not attributable to intelligence. Rather, they appear to be an obnoxious mix of low education, unhealthy culture (or subculture), lacking national blueprint, paucity of institutionalization, and a lack of pride to join the league of big economies (very important!). However, when intelligent individuals among them (potential leaders) are transplanted to favorable cultures in the West they do well. Africans need not reinvent the wheel. They just perhaps need to copy it wisely, even if with help for a start, and set out on a journey of decades. Modern economics is a “culture warfare”. And Africa is starkly different, to the degree of its geographical location and color. There is no neighbor jealousy to jolt her into action.

    [MORE]

    Woodley (2012b) shows that the historical trend of IQ gains (which
    again are not correlated with g) both parallels and predicts the growth
    in gross domestic product (GDP) per capita in Western nations over the
    past 10 decades or so (correlation = 0.930). Indeed, Woodley et al.
    (2017) and Woodley, Sarraf, Peñaherrera-Aguirre, Fernandes, & Becker
    (2018) have recently published perhaps the strongest evidence that
    declines in g are accompanied by enhanced specialized abilities that
    have real world significance. These build on his earlier thesis that a
    slower “Life History Speed” explains the “Flynn Effect” (Woodley,
    2012a).
    Nisbett (2015) cites the example of Ireland. Between 1970 and
    1985, the Irish went from educational parity with Great Britain to well
    above. They boosted years of education by 2.3 years whereas Britain
    rose by only 0.77 years. Ireland multiplied those with tertiary education
    by six times while Britain did so by only three times. In 1970, per capita
    GDP was virtually the same for both. In 2005, it was $65,292 (U.S.
    dollars) in Ireland and $38,149 in the United Kingdom.
    The Irish were supposed to be constrained by an IQ as low as that of
    American Blacks (Eysenck, 1971). Lynn believed much of their low
    performance was genetic, stemming from selective migration of
    brighter Irish going abroad. However, when you select out the studies
    from Lynn (2006) and Lynn and Vanhanen (2002) that have large
    samples, and supplement them with the 2009 Irish performance on
    PISA (a comprehensive Program for International Assessment by the
    OECD), a pattern emerges: 1971, IQ 87; circa 1991 (4 studies), IQ 94;
    2000, IQ 95; 2009, IQ 100. All Irish IQ estimates are based on British
    norms set at 100 at the time. This appears to be a classic case of society
    demanding more intellectual exercise followed by rising IQ interdependent with economic growth.

    Reflections about intelligence over 40 years (James R. Flynn)

  29. preference for scientific rationality over magic and superstition

    So, atheism and anarchism are indicators of success.

  30. @Chinaman

    So what are you capable of doing? What skills do you have? What, other than a small fortune, have you created? No, not the organization you worked for, but you, yourself? Can you work on your Lambo? Do you know the difference between the oil filler cap and the water? Can you run any of the fine machine tools that were used to manufacture your Lambo? Can you play a musical instrument? Wield a paint brush or a sculpture’s chisel effectively?

    Why are you alive? Why did you bother to live? Did you ever really accept the Buddhist notion of incarnation? Why are you incarnate? Did you ever use your body to explore the physical world into which you were incarnated? What the hell use is a fortune if you haven’t used it to explore all the possibilities of a questing soul encapsulated in sensual body that interacts with a sometimes stubborn and sometimes yielding material world that has qualities that make each interaction a unique flavor?

    From the nature of what you crow about, it sounds as though you missed the point of the whole exercise.

  31. Schuetze says:
    @Dieter Kief

    Interesting show. Here is the home page of the Swiss company. They have 1000 employees in Ghana and Ivory Coast. At the end of the clip in the management meeting the two Swiss guys told the negroes that all profits were reinvested into the company. The Emmentaler stressed to the Black employees that “Cleanliness is next to Godliness”, and that the blacks need to remember to stay close to god and keep clean. Earlier the Emmentaler was complaining in the beginning about how he had to work hard to get the negroes to use the toilets and wash their hands.

    Emmental is a remote valley in Switzerland where there are lots of dairy farms and is the home of Emmentaler Cheese, better known as Swiss Cheese. The young guy is almost certainly a farm boy, likely from a big Swiss family. This would explain why he was talking about god in the management meeting.

    So we have to understand that the engagement of these Swiss is far more than just a profit maximizing business. These Swiss there are far closer to missionaries than capitalists. This completely disproves Mr. Roser’s thesis that Europe has magic dirt and negroes would do well there if they were born there, or that colonialism is what keeps the black people poor. Anyone who visits a park, or train station, in a large European city will see throngs of black people milling about and not working. In all these western countries there are endless programs to teach the invaders the local language and provide job training or even apprenticeships. These programs are always far more generous for the invaders than for the local young people. Black invaders will almost always be assigned a social worker who will help him get employment and housing, yet the majority of these blacks end up back at the park or train station hanging out, often selling drugs or other kinds of contraband.

    • Replies: @Schuetze
  32. gotmituns says:
    @Chinaman

    Americans will forget to do anything himself
    ——————————————————
    Interesting point. Most young American men don’t even know how to change a flat tire and they don’t care to learn. If you try to teach one of them how, they will hate you for taking time away from their playing their video games.

  33. Schuetze says:
    @Schuetze

    In Rhodesia the communists and negroes have started letting white farmers return. When the original white farmers come back, their old black employees are almost always ecstatic that they have returned. This is also an indication of how the Rhodesian and South African farmers not only didn’t “colonize” these countries, they came and created roads, churches, hospitals and order. We can see from both SA and Rhodesia, that even when the blacks were given existing farms with all the equipment, and many of the blacks had worked the farms for years, that they still could not keep the farms operating, even for a short period of time.

    The truth here is that the negroes in Africa are different, likely even a different species. Over the centuries their bodies and minds have adapted to a different kind of existence, one that is usually short and brutal with some violent chief stealing all the women. The question anthropologists should be asking and aren’t is whether negroes are even capable of existing in a modern culture or if they will just always degrade them down to the level of African cities. There has never been in the history of the planet a city created and maintained by negroes that even comes close to what Europeans have achieved. Anthropologists cannot ask these questions because the academy and all of science across the west has been deliberately turned into a giant African cesspool by the chicken swingers.

    • Replies: @gotmituns
  34. xyzxy says:

    Jews living virtually anywhere tend to do well, and usually very well.

    This is not the case at all. Jews do well only if they live within an existing society that allows their predatory behavior to manifest unfettered. By themselves, ghettoized, Jews have demonstrated an ability to function, but not at a high economic level. Further, the only reason their country, Israel, flourishes is because it is supported by American and EU subsidies, both military and economic. Left on their own Israel would soon cease to be a viable state.

    • Agree: Bert, HdC, Theophrastus
  35. anonymous[126] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chinaman

    That kind of life sounds pretty detached from most Hong Kongers. Half of the population do not own homes and most of the other half are paying through the nose on their mortgages.

    https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/article/3126052/why-we-cant-solve-hong-kongs-housing-crisis

    https://tradingeconomics.com/hong-kong/home-ownership-rate

    You are not poor if you really own ten Ferraris, what are you smoking lol.

    Looks like the CCP is still figuring out how to fix this issue.

    https://www.morningstar.com/news/dow-jones/202103156122/china-targets-hong-kong-wealth-gap-housing-woes-after-political-purge

    Doesn’t Hong Kong only have 71 billionaires, that’s second to New York City. I think you are over exaggerating when you say only people with a billion US dollars are considered rich. So you actually know people like Li Ka Shing?

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  36. TG says:

    Sorry, but all of this is nonsense.

    We forget: technology and economic growth do not increase per-capita wealth. They increase the total amount of wealth, which can be used to support a modest number of people in prosperity, or a massive number of people in poverty. Technology doesn’t care.

    India has had massive economic growth, there were periods where it was in the double digits, and they have every advantage of the technological progress of the last 500 years: chemical fertilizers, the green revolution, irrigation, etc. And it’s all been wiped out by massive population growth, the standard of living is essentially bare subsistence (you can’t do worse, duh), and now population growth is flattening because they have run out of surplus food and simply can’t physically grow more people like they used to. The notion that economic growth is the answer to India’s poverty (and other places like India) is absurd: it’s never worked before, and it won’t work in the future.

    Without an open frontier, exponential growth is just too powerful. If people try to double their population every 25 years or so, generation after generation, before too long they will fail – as they have always failed. Which is why every atom in the observable universe is not part of human flesh. And as they fail, of necessity the standard of living will be crushed to subsistence.

    India’s physical standard of living is inferior to late medieval Europe, even though the later had vastly inferior technology and a vastly smaller economy. End of story.

    The “Iron Law of Development” is that FIRST people stop having as many children as they can physically produce, THEN – if everything else listed in this piece goes halfway right – they can start to accumulate per-capita wealth.

  37. gotmituns says:
    @Schuetze

    The truth here is that the negroes in Africa are different
    —————————————————————-
    I agree, but the thing is they should be sent back to Africa and left to themselves to develop/or not at their own pace. Just because they’re not up to modern technology doesn’t mean they should be interfered with. Just leave them alone.

    • Agree: Schuetze
    • Replies: @Schuetze
  38. gnbRC says:
    @Dieter Kief

    Inner Scorecard – Contentment and satisfaction due to how developed one is internally.
    Outer Scorecard – Concern with having external things to reach contentment and satisfaction.

    Of course, as Warren Buffet probably correctly opines – it’s not really possible to reach a state of life satisfaction pursuing solely and outer scorecard.

    (Other opinions and definitions welcome.)

    • Replies: @BorisMay
  39. Anonymous[335] • Disclaimer says:

    “Also, the Chinese do well. The most important thing about Singapore is not the mosquitoes. It’s the Chinese. There are other economic elites, for example in India, who do far better than other Indians, and better than most people elsewhere.”

    Horse shit! It’s the Brits who showed the filthy Chinese how to build up Singapore, otherwise, it would still be a mosquito infested swamp land. And as to the filthier Indians, it was, again, the Brits who showed the local Jooies (Brahmins, Jains, Zoroastrians, Jews, Shiites etc.) how to take advantage of ignorant peasants.

    Now if you want to see who is best among the cutthroat crowd then lock up the most successful of the mercantile caste in an island to see who comes out on the top!

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  40. Anonymous[195] • Disclaimer says:

    What always gets ignored by the silly blank-slate types is, How did different societies come to be how they are in the first place?

  41. Anonymous[335] • Disclaimer says:

    “That 56 year hangover would suggest that the exceptionally bad mismanagement of the leadership of Germany and Japan culminating in their destruction in 1945 would still be having deleterious economic effects on those countries in 2001, but in fact both were powerhouses of the world economy by then, and had already substantially recovered by the 1970s.”

    More horse shit! If it wasn’t for the massive Marshall Plan, Japs and Jerrys be sucking lemons and not making lemonade machines!

    • Replies: @HdC
    , @fnn
    , @fnn
  42. polistra says:

    You don’t need that fancy diagram. Some of the entities on it might exist, but none of them are working.

    One simple statement explains the modern world:

    Psychopaths destroy everything and kill everybody.

  43. gnbRC says:

    Max Roser does great work at “Our World in Data”, virtually all of which I read and retweet approvingly. He has just written a paper calculating the amount of economic growth which will be required to lift people out of poverty. Lots and lots of growth, he argues.

    Oh, really? You think so? Since the creation of the ‘science’ of economics was paid for by the American oligarchs, the conclusion is hardly surprising. ‘Growth’ in this context always is defined as resource impoverishment, debt and human suffering.

    The problem isn’t the state of ‘human capital’, but rather the misuse of ‘oligarchic capital’. Not everything needs to be on the same financial footing. Why not create an ‘adaptive’ currency/financial system that adapts to the local circumstances? Why not have a human base-load system where food, housing and healthcare are provided outside of the financial system? Why not use ‘oligarchic capital’ to develop ‘human capital’ to achieve the desired potential?

    Well, because the ‘science’ of economics says …

  44. Chinaman says:

    The other Asian dude was flaunting his 1% status and high IQ so someone needs to put him in his place…99% of the commenter can’t do so I need to do it. Personally, I don’t really like talking about money since it makes me seem like a Philistine, as you surmised.

    Let me put it this way, some people have a talent for painting or fixing Lambos. Some people are good at making money.

    If you look at my other comment on economics ( and race), you realize that I made my money from being curious about the world and thinking about economics, politics and other sciences.It is a passion and an endeavor like all the other you mentioned… But much more interesting.

    The money is a way of keeping score of how well I understand the world and myself.

    Lambos are for low IQ rappers and not exactly for serious car aficionados.

  45. Chinaman says:
    @Marshall Lentini

    The evil chinaman is too much of a compliment.

    I wish I can take credit for the mess America is in and change the tides of history but it is Americans who put themselves in that position. All its problems are internal.

    No one can defeat America except itself.

    Some of it is American’s genetic destiny and some of it atonement for slavery but ultimately, demographic is the downfall of all empires. All empires rise and fall. Natural order of things so nothing evil about it. I think everyone agrees that America is ready for some creative destruction and this state of thing is unsustainable. A new Aryan state might rise from America’s ashes or may be China will finally have the balls to create a global socialist state.

    Don’t worry, China will suffer the same fate at some point, as it did many times in its past. 300 years is the average lifespan of empires.

  46. Chinaman says:
    @Anonymous

    So why wasn’t the Brits able to turn Africa into a paradise? Why is their own country in tatters now?

    You do know that the Brits left Singapore 50-60 years ago? Singapore is 20 years ahead of the UK.. In just about everything.

    • Replies: @gnbRC
  47. I’ve often wondered about the lack of civilizational accomplishments in sub-saharan Africa. The HBD types will chalk it up to IQ because everything begins and ends with IQ in their book. However, what about geography? Could it be that because resources were so abundant in Africa there was little need to innovate? For many centuries Africans just enslaved and exported their own kin to service the Arab, European, and Turkish slave markets. Only in India would one encounter behavior as opportunistic as this.

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  48. Chris Moore says: • Website
    @Schuetze

    Claiming you are lifting people out of poverty while you are trying to murder them is almost as monstrous as murdering your own people in the labor camps and then labelling it “The Holocaust” in order to blame it on Germany and collect generations of reparations. But it gets worse. Clearly one part of the Great Reset is the “food revolution” which aims to starve the west and make them eat bugs and plastic burgers just like people in the developing world, not the other way around. Poverty in essence means owning nothing. Schwab has told us that we will own nothing and be happy, yet we have to listen to this globalist idiot Rosen prattling on about lifting people out of “poverty”.

    Never take what the corrupt Chosen-Elect say at face value. Usually, they mean the opposite of what they say, so when Roser talks about lifting people out of poverty, what he really means is impoverishing more and more to serve the Globalist hierarchy.

    Humble Christianity served the average folk by creating values that were conducive to a bigger and bigger Middle Class. The egoistic “chosen” Zionists have always been a parasite on the Western Christian body politic/Middle Class, and taken for granted that it would always exist as the stable economy they could feed off of.

    That’s no longer the case, but the Zionist parasites don’t care. They’re sociopaths, due to what their elite rabbis/culture did to them on an ongoing basis over many centuries, continuing through today.

    They’ve infected the elite globally. So when people like the Zionist brainwashed German Schwab talk about subjugating humanity for humane purposes, you can believe their intent to subjugate humanity, but not for humane purposes. Like the Bolsheviks, they’re doing it for revenge against the rabbis, but they don’t have the guts to take it out on the rabbis, and indeed they’ve been brainwashed to transfer their rage onto goyim, so they’re taking it out on people who still operate with a conscience.

    This is what the Jews have always done, even before Christianity. Christianity just grates on them in particular because it can see straight into their evil hearts.

    The Romans didn’t indulge the Jews and eventually just whacked out Zion. Christianity’s fatal flaw is that it indulged the Jews because it cultivated a conscience, which led to its own downfall.

    The West needs to return to a St. Augustine model, which was a combination of Greek/Roman values and Christianity. If it wants to survive. Otherwise, eventually, it’s Zionist hell for everyone.

    • Agree: Theophrastus
    • Replies: @Schuetze
  49. Sean says:

    I think it likely that lots of economic growth will be required, and am not questioning his thesis in growth terms.

    You can have economic growth like Portugal’s, Ireland and Spain’s though. Iceland had tremendous economic growth.

    A more cynical view held by many Africans is that after liberation the old colonialism was taken over by a new African tribe called the WaBenzi, who mistreated the people of Africa in the most terrible way, stealing from them, corrupting their institutions and destroying their economies. They were named after the cars they drove.

    It is not just in Africa that the class war heats up when there is no interstate war because the common people are no longer needed as cannon fodder. I think the main criterion for a raging class war is decline in productive capacity.

    ‘They will pay a big price’: Trump orders American firm to bring …www.independent.co.uk › … › Americas › US politics
    3 Apr 2020 — 3M manufacturing firm opposed Trump request on ‘humanitarian grounds’ … some 10 million N95 respirator masks from its plant in Singapore to the US, … The president appeared to be referring to the Defence Production Act,

    Offshore manufacturing jobs, which can be unionized, and import foreigners to do the service industry jobs that cannot be offshored such as construction and transportation. The people of the country proceed to ‘come apart’ as Murray puts it. All that can happen while it gets richer. The immigration of Africans and resultant cities that are substantially African will be the result of a certain type of wealth creation. I speak of globalised hypercapitalism at the behest of the real benficiaries: a high IQ over-class. Pretty clear what is needful.

    https://www.economist.com/open-future/2018/09/10/can-inequality-only-be-fixed-by-war-revolution-or-plague

    There was always one Big Reason behind every known episode of substantial leveling. There was one Big Reason why John D. Rockefeller was an entire order of magnitude richer in real terms than his richest compatriots one and two generations later, why the Britain of Downton Abbey gave way to a society known for universal free healthcare and powerful labor unions, why in industrialized nations around the globe the gap between rich and poor was so much smaller in the third quarter of the twentieth century than it had been at its beginning – and, indeed, why a hundred generations earlier ancient Spartans and Athenians had embraced ideals of equality and sought to put them into practice. […] These Big Reasons were not all the same, but they shared one common root: massive and violent disruptions of the established order. Across recorded history, the periodic compressions of inequality brought about by mass mobilization warfare, transformative revolution, state failure, and pandemics have invariably dwarfed any known instances of equalization by entirely peaceful means.

  50. Colonization worked out pretty well for the US, Canada, Australia and a fair amount of South America. I suppose those former colonies belong under a completely different category?

    Just strikes me as a little ironic that much of the criticism of the harmful effects of colonization comes from a former colony that ended up leading the world for a while. The indigenous population got screwed, of course, but this article mostly talks about nations not cultures. If you go back far enough, everybody is a descendant of both colonizers and occupied peoples.

    Seems like the designation of “former colony” is far more likely to be applied according to a higher proportion of negative to positive consequences.

  51. Schuetze says:
    @Chris Moore

    You forgot the part about the secret societies and freemasons. The Jesuits were also taken over by crypto-jews. But in the end it is raw, unadulterated Jewish Power that runs the world…

    View post on imgur.com

  52. HdC says:
    @Anonymous

    Rubbish; The German portion of the Marshall plan was a fraction of what Britain, France, and, I think, Italy received.
    Without the Marshall the reconstruction of Germany would have been a little slower since the Marshall funds were primarily used to rebuild infrastructure such as bridges, thus facilitating commerce.
    As a young engineer I very quickly noticed that good people can make the worst systems function, and bad people can screw-up the best systems.
    A large part of the malaise that Britain found itself in was being on the “winning” side. The Brits sat back after the war and hoped that winning would pay off in their private lives without having to work for it. This was the lifestyle of the buccaneer 300 years earlier: Just take want you want and you are rich.
    That doesn’t work anymore because in a modern war among more or less equals everything gets worn out or destroyed and, no matter who wins or loses, all needs rebuilding. Sitting back and harping “we won, we won, we won” will only cause your ex enemy to think and act “we’ll teach them”.

    • Agree: Mark G.
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  53. Anonymous[335] • Disclaimer says:

    No doubt the Chinese are a far superior people to the savages of Africa (take away the languages of the masters and you’re left with gibberish) but both Chinese and Indians are building off of European/American knowhow.

  54. @ruralguy

    The united states benefits because it was founded by and originally populated by high-iq, high-trust NW Europeans – outside of some African slaves who continue to drag down our society.

    Now, those whites certainly benefited by having a resource rich continent to colonize, but whites have proven adapt at succeeding in almost every climate and territory.

    Economic success is down stream from biology.

  55. @Chinaman

    Bingo!

    The big lie is that you can’t outperform the market. The truth is that Wall Street can’t beat the market due to capacity constraints.

    Buffett has talked about this for years.

  56. Alfa158 says:
    @Chinaman

    I’m intrigued about your statement that China is about 20 years away from destroying America. The US is devouring itself, so I don’t know why China would need to actively destroy the US as long as it continues to weaken itself so that it can’t do stupid things like building fleets of F-35s and super carriers to prop up its decaying Empire. It seems reasonable that China would still find a diminished, but functioning US a useful resource and might at some point try to actually put the brakes on if it is folding too fast.
    A post-Imperial US could still be an asset since it would remain a large market for goods, and have lots of good farmland, energy and other natural resources. Even as a shrinking percentage of the population, there will still be millions of smart, creative people including American Chinese, who can create technological innovations and either be hired by Chinese companies, or start companies that will be backed by Chinese capital. The American continent will still have lots of nice, un-crowded real estate that could be part-time homes or even entire protected enclaves if provided with adequate security. The US is already incapable of being militarily an existential threat to China short of nuclear war. There aren’t going to be any US Marines landing on Chinese beaches, so actively trying to turn the US into a failed state seems unnecessary and counter-productive.

  57. Mefobills says:
    @Chinaman

    You really shouldn’t brag about your wealth, and then relate it to IQ.

    There is a good chance I have created more real wealth than anybody posting on this board, and that wealth is not always measured in money. Although the money does come along as a knock on effect, but the correlation is weak.

    A fully monetized society, confuses people that money wealth is a measure of a man. A fully monetized/financialized economy converts everything to a money price. Even a woman’s labor for raising a child is unpriced, when it is one of the most priceless things. Go to work and push power-points around in a factory woman! Make others rich.

    If you are using a computer, cell phone, or driving a car, my technology is in it. Your welcome.

    When the invention/technology is invented, the wealth gains don’t always go to the creators, and that includes many of my co-inventors.

    At the very highest IQ range there is little correlation between income and money/asset accumulation.

    Some of the smartest people I have ever met may be among the poorest, they just don’t care about their status in the hierarchy. They care about their intellectual pursuit. It may be a white man thing, because white men are over-represented in clinging to and pursuing science and invention at the detriment of life balance.

    Also, some of the super smart people I have had the favor to work with over the years may be lacking in a quality that lets them create. The people involved in finance and wealth accumulation are not necessarily the people who move civilization forward. We remember Tesla, but not Westinghouse or Morgan who profited. The reason I studied money was because Wall Street was green-mailing my company to move to China. Finance predators were attacking, most of whom were Jews. I became an anti-semite by life experience.

    The above is just one more reason why immigration should come to a full stop. A single ethnic population is not riven by racial differences. By the way, at the highest levels – the highest IQ fraction of the white population, there are few Chinese – they are there, but under represented. Or, at least that has been my experience at the bleeding edge. I even observed a Jewish attempted take-over of our Research and Development operation in real time, as Jews networked with nepotism. At least Chinese don’t do that, they tend to work side by side with white men without friction.

    I also have observed South East Asians (Indians) operating with nepotism and acting as an in-group.

    Immigration full stop. The white race has plenty of intellectual firepower.. .the IQ that is needed to push forward. Wealth is not money.

  58. @Chinaman

    It’s almost as though Americans are using Glubb’s book as how-to manual.

  59. Schuetze says:
    @gotmituns

    negroes in Africa are different”

    https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/7/eaax5097

    This plandemic and mRNA vaccines are the straw that broke the camels back. “Scientists” and “Science” have been weaponized against us. I no longer believe that Negroes are the same species as Europeans.

    • Replies: @Schuetze
  60. orionyx says:

    I was talking to an American woman and mentioned blacks. She said “don’t say black, say poor”. This shows up the problem that bedevils our thinking about poverty, because all too often, when we say ‘poor’, we really mean ‘black’, and not the other way around.

    Poverty is a badge of blackness, as much a part of it as melanin. Why?

    First, I think of a South African policeman I knew who told me of flying over a rural area at 10 a.m. in a helicopter. Men came streaming out of the huts below to look up t the sky. “Ten in the morning, all thesse men in their huts! Why aren’t they at work?”

    This echoes one sobriquet for blacks here in the USA: porch monkeys, to be found on their porches at all hours of the day. Nobody has drummed it into blacks that if you don’t work, you don’t earn, although why it has to be drummed in, I don’t know.

    This reveals another aspect of black thinking. If there’s something you want, steal it. Steal preferably from non-blacks, because that’s mostly where the stuff is; but failing that, steal even from your mother. Blacks encourage each other to steal.

    Laziness and dishonesty infects all black thinking, and is seen flowering in black politics – which is why black-run countries are all too often shitholes, as are black-run cities in the USA.

    This sounds like yet another racist diatribe. It’s not. I would love for it not to be true. It’s valid criticism, and the fixing of it is in the hands of those whom it afflicts most, the very blacks themselves. I don’t know how to fix it, but maybe they themselves, haiving their eyes open to it, will be able to work it out.

    If not, I foresee a world devoid either of blacks or of whites. If the whites wake up, the blacks will have no chance: the intelligence, energy and application needed to win are all on the side of the whites. But if the whites don’t wake up, the Asians are awake already, and against them the blacks have no chance at all.

    So if you’re black and reading this, think!

  61. Yeah, right, “growth.” Like cancer.

    The idea of limitless growth is limited by its own limitless growth.

    The “economy,” whatever that is, but by economy I mean constantly building subdivisions over cornfields, pumping PCBs into air water earth, filling the drinking water with estrogen-mimicking chemicals, belching air pollution into the air from dark Satanic mills like a house afire, building endless interstates and destroying railroads, tearing out, burning down, ripping up, disintegrating everything that was fine and beautiful and noble and beautiful and dignified and graceful and courageous and replacing it with gimcrack rattletrap ugly deracinated gussied-up bullshit, needs to contract, not “grow,” because, as I have proven in my interpolation, “growth” is destruction.

    • Agree: Theophrastus
  62. RouterAl says:

    Back in the 40’s the American’s put a small herd of reindeer on an island off the coast of ALASKA, there was plenty food , water and no predators. The population was placed there as protein for the staff of an American army weather station. They started with 29 reindeer then the troops left. When the Americans visited in the 50’s there were an estimated 6000 reindeer. By the 80’s they were all dead, they had eaten the island bare, there had been only one male left in the 60’s once he went there were no more babies and the lichen and grass was all gone at the end.
    We live on a planet were we cannot create matter , we can only transform it. To create every person requires water , carbon, calcium and a host of other electrolytes. We take those materials from somewhere else or something else. We dodged extinction once before when we started the industrial revolution as that raised CO2 levels from slowly decreasing levels where plant life would eventually not be able to function and would die out, to the current healthy 420ppm where plants can thrive and we can feed these obscene levels of people on the planet. It could be we end up like the reindeer and we are at the 6000 reindeer stage at the moment, I hope for today’s children we survive but there are way to many of us, and most are just empty mouths. I think GOD made a bad mistake giving Eve 12 ovulation’s a year , one would have been way better for the planet.

  63. MarkinLA says:
    @I'm Tyrone

    Of course there are other drivers besides IQ. Look at the Americas. There is probably no difference in IQ between the Maya and the tribes of Indians in North America, yet there was a vast difference in their level of technological development.

    You need a population density high enough to develop a diverse economy with specialized labor. However, there is also the desire to accomplish such structure. I doubt the steppes where the Mongols came from supported a large population any more than that in North America. Somebody had to finally bring all those disparate tribes together into something resembling a country.

    I think that IQ is a measure of how fast you can adapt but you have to want to adapt in the first place. I doubt it was the resource abundance of Africa that held them back since they were rather resource poor like North American Indians. The reasons places don’t develop are usually more cultural than anything else – it is believed to violate some superstitious or religious belief. Another reason is the laziness (for lack of a better word) of the populace. Go to any third world country and visit the back waters and you will see plenty of people just happy to sit around all day long and do nothing.

    Every society is subject to this. European medical technology in the 1600s was way behind that of the Romans because of foolish ideas from Christianity.

    • Replies: @gotmituns
  64. Schuetze says:
    @Schuetze

    Robert Sephehr discusses “hybridization” of “Humans”…

    Interracial cross-species interbreeding is irrefutable, DNA is not anti-Bible. Miriam’s punishment was for speaking against Moses, not discussing hybridization.

    “Hominid includes Gorillas, Hominin includes Chimps. The taxonomy isn’t very static, especially now that we have DNA genomes sequenced, but to lump all hominid/hominin together as one Christian “race”, like she was trying to do, is silly Marxist drivel.

    [MORE]

    View post on imgur.com

  65. Chinaman says:
    @Mefobills

    Totally agree. If you look at my past comments, I don’t like to talk about money. Only brought it up because someone mention they are in the 1%. He have no idea.

    I said I am relatively poor and not really that interested in getting richer.

    Correlation between wealth and IQ is not that high and breakdown above 140. I know two IMO gold chinaman and they are not that rich of course.

    No one will remember the billionaires but someone might remember you for your contribution to whatever you invented.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  66. fnn says:
    @Anonymous

    The Marshall Plan myth:
    https://mises.org/library/marshall-plan-myth

    As economist Tyler Cowen has noted, the countries that received the most Marshall Plan money (allies Britain, Sweden, and Greece) grew the slowest between 1947 and 1955, while those that received the least money (axis powers Germany, Austria, and Italy) grew the most. In terms of post-war prosperity, then, it eventually paid to be a political enemy of the U.S. instead of a “beneficiary” of international charity.

  67. @anonymous

    Ok give us your life story HOW you did it?? Did you have a wonderful wife who raised your kids so you could work hard? Did you have parents who worked like dogs to pay for your schooling? Did you get lucky? Did you lie, cheat, steal? Did you take advantage of people? Were you a slumlord like a lot of foreigners in America? And if you have invested in the market in the last 30 years gtfo of here!!! The market gas done nothing but gone up because of central banks printing money like crazy!! So know you did NOT build your wealth by your own bootstraps. That is rare in the 21st century when central banks control who wins and who loses. America is $28 trillion in debt!!! And that is just the books they show is. As a 41 yo born and raised in the midwest Im goddamn sick of Asians to be honest!! They come here and suck off previous generations sacrifice. We as Americans have pumped trillions into Asia/Japan/SK/etc. We still do! We have idiotically supported them/you for the last 50 years with our mindless consumption. Americans have only themselves to blame but Asians are leaches too!

  68. anonymous[155] • Disclaimer says:

    “The stock is different, everyone is equal, as long as you are smart.” – Charlie Munger

    The entry barrier for the stock market is very low.  Education, starting capital, social networking, ethnic privilege, social recognition are not problems for anyone who wants to get into the stock market. Even financial training is not that important.

    “It doesn’t seem to be a matter of academic training. It’s instant recognition, or it is nothing.” – Warren Buffett

    “They say college educated people do better. But maybe they do better because they were better to start with before they ever went to college. Yeah, they never tell you that” – Charlie Munger.  

    According to Hendrik Bessembinder, a finance professor at Arizona State University, only 4% of all stocks are outperforming  T-bills. That’s a mere 0.36% of the stocks surviving and outperforming market indexes in 90 years. Picking winning stocks is like answering multiple choices questions with only one correct answer out of 20 choices. You might be good at IQ test answers which correct answers are defined by test makers. In the stock market, the correct answer is defined by outcomes (or God). In my view (or Buffett’s view), the stock market is the true testing ground for mental ability, the correct answer set by God. I have been very good at multiple choice tests throughout my educational history, even nicknamed as a “testing machine”.  But such ability is coming handy in the stock market. My political incorrect view of my ability is based on the large brain volume a person possesses, because I need XXX size helmet. It happens that people in my hometown region have the largest brain volume in the world. Brain volume is the most objective measurement related to mental ability.

    Low barrier by no means is easy to succeed in the stock market.  “If one gets rich by luck, he will lose it by his ability”  – a popular Chinese saying. So very few lottery winners are able to keep their wealth. In the stock market, luck can not make anyone rich if there is no ability to be consistently “lucky”. 

    “To get what you want, you have to deserve what you want. The world is not yet a crazy enough place to reward a whole bunch of undeserving people.” – Charlie Munger 

    “I don’t like politicians getting ahead by trying to make everybody else feel like a victim and they make my flesh crawl.” – Charlie Munger.

    “But why should it be easy to get rich?” – Charlie Munger

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  69. @Mefobills

    In 1915 the Commission on Industrial Relations, created as an independent body by Congress, working with experts of national stature in their diverse fields to investigate the American economy reported that there was (as there still is) more than enough to go around to insure that everyone in America can enjoy a ‘middle-class’ livelihood. It’s 1916 report in eleven thousand-page volumes, is a monument of American social fact-finding as was recognized as such and consigned to oblivion during the rise of the warfare state that immediately followed.

    The problem isn’t creativity or resources or production. The problem is distribution — which is networking and nepotism (Morgan and Westinghouse and Wall Street financiers offshoring incomes — not Tesla). In the same period Thorstein Veblen pointed out that 90% of the wealth in America is held by 10% and that the only way to perpetuate such a situation is to keep the victims ignorant. This is still the case. Again, nepotism and networking. In the same era the notion was propagated that “a rising tide lifts all boats,” that what is needed to raise the livelihoods of the 90% — is “growth.” A hundred and twenty years later, this idea still dominates the Lie Factory’s facsimile of “public” discussion.

    But the boats haven’t risen. In fact, they have sunk. In 1915 the poorer 60% of Americans owned 7% of America; today they own less than 1%. Throughout this period, by definition, the same proportion of the population has fallen into the 95th percentile. IQ is not key to maintaining maldistribution of wealth and all the social ills it entails.

    Wilkinson and Pickett’s The Spirit Level (2009) demonstrates, by means of a comparison of public health, social welfare and economic statistics of 23 countries and all 50 states, that social welfare and public health correlate with distribution of wealth. The more concentrated the wealth, the fewer member of a society hold it, the worse the society as a whole fares. America falls at the bottom of all “developed” countries. The writing is on the wall. A principal function of the Lie Factory is to cover it up with noise, distract attention elsewhere, keep the victims ignorant. The Lie Factory is a traitor by function and by nature.

    • Thanks: Mefobills
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  70. @anonymous

    Economy growing 3% at best, productivity somewhere thereabouts. Your gelt-15%. ‘Behind every fortune is a crime’. What was yours?

  71. @dearieme

    Sounds like the Jews in the USA. The Poms did fancy themselves a Chosen People, after all, and some (The British Israelites) even thought that they were a ‘Lost Tribe of Israel’.

  72. @HdC

    In On War (Buch vom Kriege) military strategist Carl von Clausewitz writes: War is the continuation of politics with other means. – And this sentence might imply, that politics in peacetime have a – to put it mildly – competitive side to it. So: I agree with what you say.
    (I liked your remarks about the different use of systems. If you had more of that kind – I’d like to read it.)

    • Replies: @HdC
  73. @J

    Too tropical, too many volcanoes-nice food, however.

  74. SafeNow says:

    Once when Milton Friedman was traveling in Scandinavia, a local economist boasted: “We have no poverty here in Scandinavia.” Friedman supposedly replied: “We have no poverty among Americans of Scandinavian descent.”

  75. BorisMay says:
    @gnbRC

    Agree. It is surprising how many commentators on here evaluate success as a material matter.

    You can only drive one car at a time, thus having 150 is not only ridiculous but also supremely pathetic.

    You can only sleep in one bedroom at a time…, only fly one jet…, only…you get the picture. Materialism is for stupid people who are clever but who have no common sense and no common decency.

    And money, having an excess is silly, because all you need is enough to pay the bills and go on holiday.

    Materialism and wealth as a sign of success leads to the hypocritical lifestyle of Americans, who make their profits from eternal wars suppressing the weak, exploiting the poor and murdering the innocent.

    Such people aren’t worth the paper needed to write their name on.

    An ‘inner scorecard’ is the way along with sound morals and a genuine concern for the beauty that surrounds you.

    The wealthy commentators on here come across as a bunch of insignificant shysters, please excuse my Yiddish. Isn’t it about time they stopped behaving like spoilt teenagers and grew up?

    • Replies: @MarkinLA
  76. gotmituns says:
    @MarkinLA

    but you have to want to adapt
    ———————————–
    The Americans have adapted. They are the first among consumers of stupid junk.

  77. Mefobills says:
    @Chinaman

    No one will remember the billionaires but someone might remember you for your contribution to whatever you invented.

    ___________

    Maybe. I have no pride in that regard … it just happened as part of productive life. At the risk of being metaphysical, god knows. Things could have gone much worse, and some people are dealt a bad hand.

    The idea is to leave the world better than you found it, and I suspect you have the same operating philosophy.

  78. JimB says:
    @Some Guy

    Underdevelopment is the cause of being colonized, not the effect of being colonized.

    Underdevelopment and rich natural resources are the cause of being colonized.

    • Replies: @dearieme
  79. @Some Guy

    Yea just look at this black guys face after the Asian guy tells him exactly how blacks are..tells you all you need to know.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsyHbj_SHGA

    • Replies: @Marckus
  80. Johan says:

    “Happens to be born” is an odd phrase. What is meant, I think, is that people are usually born in a national economy which their parents and grandparents have created.

    ‘Happens to be born’ is an expression of twentieth century modern secular liberal man and the culture of the clique which runs his society, consisting of homo calculus, homo statisticus, homo schemeus, diagrammus and mapus, homo scientificus, homo economicus and homo merchantus. Generally he is ‘homo at variance’, a combination of the above mentioned homo specialisus whom are all at odds with their forefathers and each other, and as such he builds mere smokescreens and stands on quicksand while using the language and concepts of traditions which he no longer understands and thinks himself to be superiorly advanced from.

    Of the below expression, the concepts ‘born’, ‘country’, ‘happens’, and ‘person’, when scrutinized by homo philosophicus, as of what they signify when used by what in this case appears to be a curious mix of homo calculus, homo economicus, homo sociologicus, homo democraticus and homo equalitarianus would amount to nothing but the ramble of a typical twentieth century homo fantasticus.

    A person who happens to be born into a country where the average income is low is almost certainly living in poverty.

  81. IronForge says:

    All Modern Day Humans Originated from Africa.

    Mitochondrial Eve – the Oldest Common Female Progenitor – was alive around 150K Years Ago; and her Remains were found near where the Pygmies Inhabit.

    She happens to be “Closely Related” to Pygmies.

    Pygmies – at the Present – Tested around 51-53 for their Group IQ Sampling.

    Needless to say, Factions of Humanity Migrated, Innovated, Failed, Succeeded, Repeated, Continued, and Progressed – in many Permutations.

    Nation-States and Ethnic Groups are responsible for Lifting THEMSELVES Out of Poverty. Lifting THEMSELVES. Plundering, Looting, Leeching, and Parasite-like Behavior do not make it.

    Today, only a Few Nation-States have Secured, or are well on their Way to Secure for Themselves, “Opportunities for their Own Prosperity and Security” for the Foreseeable Future.

  82. @dearieme

    My theory, from having lived through the transition of US IT from American management to dot Indian management, is that the small number of Brits had enough higher caste dot Indians willing to screw over the rest of India keeping them in line.

    • Replies: @Malla
  83. @Some Guy

    Jared Diamond said it was all about “Guns, Germs, and Steel”.

  84. @Mefobills

    If you are using a computer, cell phone, or driving a car, my technology is in it.

    Mine too for the first two, certainly in the total system. My employers made lots of money. That was a long time ago. I then had 15 years nudging technology transfer along before switching to Russia. Lots of projects, a fabulous window on the world, not so much money. That’s not how the UK, the rest of Europe or Japan works.

  85. gnbRC says:
    @Chinaman

    You do know that the Brits left Singapore 50-60 years ago? Singapore is 20 years ahead of the UK.. In just about everything.

    Some would say that Singapore’s founder Lee Kuan Yew was a Brit – educated at London School of Economics (Cambridge) – and set up Singapore development based on the British model. Then again, some would say he was a ‘banana’.

    I lived and worked in Singapore for four years. Nice on the outside, decent and interesting regular people (except for the kiasu people), great education system, good housing policy (but kind of slummy for the locals), good outdoor markets; but overall, generally oppressive with overall development based on low wage slavery imported from south Asian countries and the Philippines.

    I don’t miss it.

  86. anon[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    I am but a poor boy not too bright but seems to me Munger/Buffet/ilk are
    parasites rich off the labor and brain power of real contributors/workers.

    Some sort of system gaming, blood sucking goin’on.

    Life given to pointless, worthless vampires.

  87. Is there some correlation between IQ and wealth? Often times, yes. But there is SO very much more to the picture than that. Why were the Irish utterly impoverished and considered subhuman by the English as recently as the 20th century? How did they end up with similar per capita gdp and intelligence as other majority white countries? Why do Jewish banksters largely control the world, yet Israel has an IQ lower than many east asian and white countries? In 1960, china had a gdp per capita significantly lower than many african countries. Now look at them vs the africans. Scandinavia was a poor backwater for a long time; it is a relatively recent phenomenon that they have become prosperous. These examples should illustrate that the world is not static, and you cannot accurately explain wealth and prosperity with IQ.

    The real world is extremely complex, and there are a plethora of causes and contingencies at play in the topics of wealth and technological & economic development. It’s a shame that many of the people here have reached old age but still haven’t figured this out.

  88. @Philip Owen

    Mir Jafar was not the only one; almost every Indian prince who lost to the British had one traitor behind him. The same idea was taught to me by a history teacher: “(Robert) Clive and Columbus could have proclaimed themselves kings of the lands they captured, but they did not. Imagine an Indian prince in a similar situation.”

    • Agree: Philip Owen
  89. Malla says:
    @dearieme

    of an Indian student asking an Indian historian how tiny numbers of British could conquer such a huge number of Indians. “Because they didn’t betray each other.”

    This is not the real reason. The truth is that the Europeans were on average higher IQ, physically stronger, extremely bold and had better discipline. This was especially true for Northern Europeans like the British. There was also a technological difference but the difference was small as Indians were a civilized lot with huge fortifications and artillery, after all we are not dealing with savages like most Africans here but a long civilized people. But European armies were better disciplined and very soon small armies made up mostly of native Indian sepoys with a portion of troop strength made up pf European soldiers and led by European officers were regularly beating Indian armies led by Indian military leaders (both Hindu or Muslim), 10 times their size. And those native Indian Armies often had Frenchmen commanding their artillery divisions. And the first European power to do this (defeating native armies 10 times their size) were the French not the British, who defeated a 10 times larger South Indian military force.
    Basically with the British, we had a Northern European population with higher IQ, with greater physical strength, bolder in battle, more disciplined and having a slight technological edge. Indeed it was often noted that Brown Caucasoid soldiers like Indians, Iranians etc… having a strange fear of White Caucasoid soldiers like the British, French or Russians.
    It has been noted that all things remaining the same, Northerners have more often defeated Southerners than the other way round in military history and higher IQ played a key role in this historical phenomenon. Interestingly the most geographically Northern of the European powers in India the British (as against the Portuguese, French and Dutch) ended up being successful in India. Among foreign Muslim invaders to India too the, Northern most ,Central Asian Mughals became the most successful before the Europeans.
    In our Indian media it is often shown in historical programs that the British conquered India via trickery while we innocent Indians fought bravely to the end but the opposite was the truth in real history.
    The great King Ranjit Singh of the Sikh Empire thus had always instructed never to attack British Empire territory. Like Shaka Zulu who had instructed the same. He was smart enough to understand that it would be suicidal for the Sikh empire to do so just like Shaka Zulu understood this would be suicidal for the Zulu Empire to do so. But after King Ranjit Singh’s death his advice was not honoured and the Sikhs with their Afghan Pastun/Pathan allies attacked the British Empire only for the Sikh Empire to be defeated and to be eventually absorbed into the British Empire. Same fate with the Zulu Empire which too was eventually absorbed into the British Empire after Shaka Zulu’s death when the Zulus foolishly invaded British Empire territory.
    Ranjit Singh actually trained his Sikh force on British methods and made it into a force which could defeat any power in India except the British East India Company Indian Empire.
    Also many Indian powers (like African powers) made alliances with the British East India Company and voluntarily joined the British Empire for protection, to gain protection from other Indian powers. Examples include the warrior Rajputs joining the British Empire for protection from the Maratha Empire, South Indian Kingdom of Travancore in today’s Indian state of Kerala taking British protection for protection from Tipu Sultan’s Mysorean Empire invasions. Similarly in Southern Africa, the Swanas entered into similar British protection to protect them from the Zulu Empire.

    Also unlike the Portuguese and French (but not the Dutch), the British were comparatively more tolerant regarding religion, which made them more acceptable and popular among Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims compared to other European & native powers.

    • Agree: Philip Owen
  90. Malla says:
    @SaneClownPosse

    Brits had enough higher caste dot Indians willing to screw over the rest of India keeping them in line.

    The Brits were most popular among poor lower caste Indians who looked to them as saviours/liberators and the anti-British Independence movements were full of upper caste Hindus. Though it is true that the gigantic British Raj Imperial bureaucracy was dominated by upper caste Hindus, mostly Brahmans and Kayasthas.

  91. Malla says:
    @dearieme

    After the removal of the French as a major player from India, the British Empire faced a new European threat, this time via Central Asia, from the expanding Russian Empire. And thus the famous “Great Game” in between both the Empires in Afghanistan and even Tibet. British Lion Vs Russian Bear. Russia wanted warm ports due to its geography problem and the British were afraid that the Russian Empire would attack the British Empire from Russian Central Asia to gain access to ports in British India like Karachi or even Calcutta. Now if the Russians were to invade, the British administrators had to face a tough question? And it was about the British Indian Army stationed at the North West frontier, literally at the edge of the British Empire. This British Indian Army, mostly made up of Indian troops mixed with a proportion of British soldiers led by British Officers, was strong enough to easily repel Afghans raider armies but would it be strong enough to repel an invading Russian Imperial force made up of Central Asian troops mixed with a proportion of Russian troops led by Russian officers?

    [MORE]

    They analysed and came to the conclusion that Northern European British soldiers were equal to the Northern European Russian soldiers in bravery and strength but were not confident that the Indian soldiers of the British Empire would be up to task to face the bigger and bolder Central Asian soldiers (Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Turkmen etc..) of the Russian Empire. White British and White Russians would cancel out each other but they feared that the physically weaker South Asians would fail in front of the stronger and braver Central Asians . After all, the Mughals (Uzbeks/Uyghurs/Mongols) who invaded and conquered India, came from Central Asia itself. In their experience Indian soldiers failed badly when fighting Gurkha soldiers of Nepal as well as soldiers of the Burmese Kingdom during earlier wars of the British Empire.

    Lord William Bentinck, Viceroy of India wrote about the Russian Central Asian Empire’s threat to the British Indian Empire.
    “The capability of the native army to meet it, and the manner in which the native military means of India can be turned to the greatest advantage, are subjects of the first magnitude. As far as experience can teach us, the prospect is discouraging as to any great degree of direct and positive assistance in the field, that is in actual conflict, to be expected from the Indian sepoy in a contest with the stronger and bolder races of Central Asia, with or without the co-operation of a Russian force.
    Mr. Holt Mackenzie has given an opinion upon the question before us, which quite coincides with my view of it : —
    4 My impression is that as far as regards any Indian enemy the native army may be considered to be very efficient. I am not equally confident of this efficiency if placed in any new and unusual position and exposed to encounter enemies that may possibly come upon us from without. I think the result of the war with the Burmese seems to show that when brought against enemies superior in physical strength to those with whom they have been accustomed to contend, and required to surmount obstacles of a different kind from what they have been accustomed to surmount, the native troops, however well led, will be found to want resolution and nervous vigour so as to be inferior to European troops in a degree not ordinarily to be perceived in Indian warfare. Consequently I should apprehend that if they were called upon to meet an European enemy like Russia in the north of India they might fail partly from the want of physical strength and partly from the want of moral energy.”

    • Replies: @Malla
  92. Malla says:
    @Malla

    Continued further by Lord William Bentinck, Viceroy of India
    The defects of the native of India are a want of physical strength and of moral energy. The first is beyond our remedy. It only depends upon ourselves to raise the latter to a much higher standard.

    [MORE]

    The late wars have brought the sepoy in contact with enemies of masculine character, and have shown the justice of the preceding opinion.
    Sir David Ochterlony, in his confidential report to the Government during the Nepal war, has recorded his opinion that the Indian sepoys were unequal to contend with the Gurkhas in the hills.
    The Burmese war was exclusively carried on by British troops. The Madras troops entirely failed. It is understood that Sir Archibald Campbell was strongly prejudiced against them, and when granting the request of their officers to be permitted to lead their men to the attack, he neglected the practice invariably adopted upon all other occasions of joining with them a proportion of European troops. To this their ill-success may be in part owing.

    With respect to the inability of the sepoys to contend with an European enemy, the concurrent opinion of all the evidence, to which may be added the inference to be drawn from all our own conquests in India, seems to be decisive upon the question.

    For my own part I am not quite disposed to come to the same desponding conclusion, because if the bolder and larger man of the north were mixed with a due proportion of Russian troops, and excited to acts of valour by sufficient encouragement, I know not why he should not acquire the same superior bearing as the Portuguese and the Neapolitans under British and French direction. But of the sepoys of the south of India, of those of the territories proper of Madras and Bombay, I entertain no such hope. Their case cannot be more favourably put for them than by supposing them to be Europeans, and to have all the advantages of the European character, and then let it be asked if men of such physical inferiority would be received as recruits in any European army, or if an army so constituted would not be considered perfectly inefficient.

    All these facts and opinions seem to me to establish incontrovertible that a large proportion of European troops is necessary for our security under all circumstances of peace and war. It surprises me to find how little attention was paid by the Committee to one of the most important parts of the inquiry, the relative proportions between the native and European force. But we fortunately possess the opinion of Sir Thomas Munro, the first of authorities, confirmed by another only second to his, that of Colonel John Munro, who filled the office of Quartermaster- General when I was at Madras. The opinions on both these questions are worthy of being noticed. The native troops are in an excellent state of discipline, but of course the Europeans are always superior to the natives.”

  93. dearieme says:
    @JimB

    Sometimes the cause of being colonised was simply to stop the French.

    • Replies: @Malla
  94. Corvinus says:
    @Mefobills

    “The white race has plenty of intellectual firepower…”

    LOL, you just stated on past threads that “White people suffer from pathological altruism, and thus are easily duped by preying on their guilt and emotions” and “I believe that white people, many of whom are lemmings, have to be protected within a Fascist framework”. So, one can reasonably conclude from your statements that there is a cognitive dissonance here. How can the white race have this overall strong mental ability, yet are constantly putting themselves in a position to be perpetually bamboozled?

    Furthermore, just curious as to why you are running away from addressing my inquiries? For the record…

    1. What seemingly gives you the authority to unilaterally make the decision that anyone who does not meet your prescribed criteria as to what constitutes “civilized people” ought to be rounded up and propagandized?

    2. Citizens have liberties as defined by that civilization. They give consent to be free from physical harm. Why are you denigrating a person’s fundamental right to exist?

    3. Do not people have the liberty to directly challenge your line of thinking, or must everyone adhere to everything you believe in, lest they receive the consequence of being forced into a “boot camp”?

    4. Have you no shame and decency regarding the treatment of innocent children at the hands of Nazi Germany merely because they were labeled a “danger”?

    5. Ask a group of people what option they would take: 1) being physically sent to a camp against their will, with absolute no choice in the matter, because they need to be “reeducated” or 2) being able to live in their own community, with the liberty to make their own decisions as to who they see, how they work, and where they want to go?

    • Replies: @Mefobills
    , @Malla
  95. Mefobills says:
    @Corvinus

    As I keep repeating, you are a serious knuckle head who cannot learn. Low IQ maybe?

    All populations have a gaussian distribution, including that of white people. The right side of the bell curve of white people have plenty of genius to move the race forward. The people in the middle, the average people, are not the ones that make break-throughs. Also, they do suffer from pathological altruism. White women are especially prone to emotional histrionics and thinking with the feelings.

    I don’t run away from addressing your inquiry’s, they are just trite and easily disproven, and when I do, you don’t learn. You are having your world view challenged and you don’t like it.

    Here is others goofing on you and your notions:

    https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/you-refuse-to-get-vaccinated-but-are-you-ready-to-be-an-outcast/#comment-4552311

    Awaiting Corvinus’ chorus with their “Ah! But they are/were endangering our ‘freedom and democracy’!”

    Here we go again, and it is tedious to respond to low IQ people. I already explained this stuff to you but it didn’t stick. It is because I don’t go into book length detail, and you cannot pick up on things.

    What seemingly gives you the authority to unilaterally make the decision that anyone who does not meet your prescribed criteria as to what constitutes “civilized people” ought to be rounded up and propagandized?

    I never claimed that authority, it is you setting up a strawman. The civilizational authorities under the law, or the hierarchy present at the time are the ones who do so. In the case of NSDAP Germany or Fascist Italy, or even today’s China, they have laws and procedures on hand. The Uyghurs are a case in point, where it was decided to round up the worst elements and put them in camps. Our civilization has norms for behavior, and you go to jail at some level. The camps were intermediate between civilian life and jail.

    Citizens have liberties as defined by that civilization. They give consent to be free from physical harm. Why are you denigrating a person’s fundamental right to exist?

    I never said that, and it is another strawman – you pulling something out of your ass. All people have a fundamental right to exist.

    Do not people have the liberty to directly challenge your line of thinking, or must everyone adhere to everything you believe in, lest they receive the consequence of being forced into a “boot camp”?

    My line of thinking is take the lead or the gold. It gives people a choice. If they don’t want to get along with the current civilization, then they are paid to leave. I have outlined many times exactly how to pay with the bill system e.g. MEFOBILLS, that Germany used. Any civilization can easily pay the bad elements to leave and we are talking about substantial sums of money to set up life elsewhere – say many violent negroes sent back to Africa, and Jews to their beloved homeland. Otherwise, the lead – or the camps. OOOH, endangering freedom and democracy. There is no such thing as free-dumb and democracy is the worst form of government possible.

    Have you no shame and decency regarding the treatment of innocent children at the hands of Nazi Germany merely because they were labeled a “danger”?

    Germany could have done a better job of ejecting their jews, and then later in history we wouldn’t have to listen to pap like your above comment. There is no data to suggest what you say is true, and even if it did happen in isolated cases, there is no way to see if the kids were actually better off than their former conditions.

    Why are you not bleeting about the 10,500 kids from central america now housed in American “camps.” Why are you not bleeting about how we used free-dumb and democracy bombs to to turn central america into failed states?

    Ask a group of people what option they would take: 1) being physically sent to a camp against their will, with absolute no choice in the matter, because they need to be “reeducated” or 2) being able to live in their own community, with the liberty to make their own decisions as to who they see, how they work, and where they want to go?

    They can be put in camps by choice, lead or gold. What is with this community B.S. American communities are constantly be torn about by finance capital. Read this book, or watch a video so you get some understanding, because you have a weak grip on reality. E. Michael Jones, slaughter of the cities. You do understand that the things you shill for are what you are against? There are few to no ethnic communities left in the U.S. or other finance capitalist countries, like England. Even the native peoples are being dispossessed.

    People don’t make their own decisions as to who they see, how they work, or where they want to go. The overall framework of your civilization forces you into pathways. Maybe the people of Honduras and Guatamala enjoyed being busted out by economic hitman techniques from the free-dumb loving west, because after all freedumb is free for parasites to take rents on usury on the weak.

    You wrap yourself in the cloth of morality, but don’t even know that you are a useful tool for immorality.

    • Replies: @GeeBee
    , @Corvinus
  96. Malla says:
    @dearieme

    One more reason I missed out why the British won easily was they the British EIC were better pay masters then many native rulers. The British EIC was more systematic paid their soldiers (both Indians and British) on time while the corrupt native rulers often fell behind on payment. The British EIC also took better care of their native soldiers and their retirement after service which native powers never did.

    https://scroll.in/article/967273/managing-money-what-india-can-learn-from-its-history-of-colonial-rule-in-order-to-become-rich-again
    Managing money: What India can learn from its history of colonial rule in order to become rich again
    “That Indian rulers lost some battles to the company gives rise to a belief that better tactics, better weaponry, better organisation won the day. We need to remember that Indian rulers cottoned on to all those techniques very fast. Before 1757, they won some battles and lost some. The Marathas had one of the most powerful armies in the world. What counted more was the Company’s ability to manage money, to manage taxation much better so that they could depend on revenues to pay their soldiers.”
    …snip…
    “Wondering English observers reported about the way in which Indian armies were continuously in arrears of pay for the rank and file. It was routine for troops to protest against non-payment of salary.
    An early-recorded instance of protest was penned down by William Henry Tone, an English East India Company official who served in the army of one of the Maratha rulers towards the end of the eighteenth century. He tells us that the Maratha cavalry was one of the most irregularly paid of all the troops. In those times, the cavalry was only paid a daily ration of flour; the cash salary came as and when the silladar (armour bearer), that is the man who had hired the troops, got his dues.”

    [MORE]

    …snip…
    “Colonel Thomas Duer Broughton, commander of the Resident’s escort at the camp of Daulat Rao Sindhia, the Maratha general, gives us a remarkable eyewitness account of life at an army camp in the early nineteenth century. Chronically bankrupt, Sindhia was used to being accosted in his camp by intemperate subordinates who had not been paid for months together. The attempts at resource mobilisation included daily collection of a few paisa per merchant in the vicinity.
    Sindhia was liberal in giving advance receipts for future cash instalments to be paid to him by the Company. Broughton narrates an incident where two Khans who commanded important units in Sindhia’s army had not been paid for months. They then proceeded to do dharna against Sindhia himself with drawn swords.”
    …snip….
    “The Indian soldier in a local army, had to organise his own horse, his own gear and even his own arms. These were costly assets. Often his greater anxiety was to preserve his equipment, rather than the battle fortunes of his regiment.

    The English company in contrast, spent much time and effort on taking care of their sipahis, and especially the invalid ones. An entire section of the Company army administration was devoted to what they called the “Invalid Establishment”. This establishment was to see to the affairs of all those who had served the company army for 10-12 years but were no longer able to serve due to age or infirmity. Further it took care of even those who had served a lesser amount of time but had suffered wounds in the service of the company.

    From 1788 onwards, it was company policy to allot lands to these invalid soldiers and to settle them in “invalid thanahs” in company territory. In addition to the land, they were also given some cash gratuity. From 1790 onwards, special provisions were made for company sipahis on foreign service, to remit money to their families.

    All this the English company was able to do by managing its finances such as to pay its soldiers regularly. This ability of the English company to manage information, to manage money, to systematise taxation, is something that is difficult to find in the Indian landscape. The Mughal army might have offered more by way of spoils or even cash salary but there was no such provision for the retired life of the common soldier. “

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  97. Malla says:
    @Corvinus

    The white race has plenty of intellectual firepower…”

    LOL, you just stated on past threads that “White people suffer from pathological altruism, and thus are easily duped by preying on their guilt and emotions” and “I believe that white people, many of whom are lemmings, have to be protected within a Fascist framework”. So, one can reasonably conclude from your statements that there is a cognitive dissonance here. How can the white race have this overall strong mental ability, yet are constantly putting themselves in a position to be perpetually bamboozled?

    You are obviously a low IQ monkey. There is something called street smart and something called book smart. I know many a IIT (Indian Institute of technology) topper nerds who could not haggle well in a bazzar and being cheated out by a cunning slum dweller thug. The same haggler expert would not even get through the first round of entrance exams of the IIT JEE. It is easily possible for good natured intelligent people to be fooled by more cunning shrewd people.
    This a street kid in India knows but this crackpot Cornballious does not know. What is wrong with some people? Crackpots like Cornballious should be forced to live in a country like India for a minimum of 5 to 10 years so that he gets some common sense. Out slum folks (after first laughing at his idiotic childish beliefs) will see to it that he comes out with more common sense and a better understanding of human nature.

    • Troll: Corvinus
  98. Marckus says:
    @dindunuffins

    Dindu,

    Blacks the world over are useless, lazy creatures. Even in the Islands the behaviour is THE SAME as in any part of Africa! You can drive from Montego Bay to Kingston/Jamaica at 8 in the morning, return at noon, go back at 4 and return at 8 pm at night and you will see only one race sitting on the nearest bridge, hanging at the street corner, throwing coins under a street lamp or drinking at a roadside shack.

    For those who do work, on pay day they spend every cent and come home broke. Dare the wives ask for money they may get chopped up or stabbed. They also love to burn. A man and his wife will have a row and the fellow will torch his own house making his wife, his kids and worse himself homeless.

    Kids go hungry, bills go unpaid, their shanties. already unfit for human habitation fall further apart, with rotten fences held up by weeds, stairs missing treads, roofs held down with old tires and rocks, garbage everywhere, a latrine in the back yard, a drum that catches rain water for baths and a bucket in the shack for night defecation and urination. No venturing out at night for fear of rape, murder or robbery.

    In Africa the black man will sit under a tree all day with his friends holding a stick to tap the ground while his multiple wives work in his small plot in the blazing sun with temperatures hitting 40 celcius or more. By the time wives turn 30 they are used up, worn out and look 80 years old.

    The Chinese working in Africa will bring in their own to do even the most menial tasks rather than hire a local black whom they will have to be after 24/7 to do anything.

    Its no different in the West. Hundreds of years and thousands of miles from the home country and nothing in their behaviour has changed.

    They are a race and species unto themselves. The black man does not and will never understand how the world works and one need not travel out of the country to observe their dysfunctional behaviour.

    It goes without saying that a visit to any black area in the US is sufficient to observe their unusual philosophy of life.

  99. Chinaman says:
    @anonymous

    HK has probably the highest absolute number of billionaires in the world for any city\country but no one will tell you that of course. it is a tax haven so Forbes can’t really keep track.

    Probably a few thousand of them here.

    The point is that a lot of mainland\overseas Chinese likes to store their wealth here. Just the building I lives in probably has 10 billionaires…the Car park alone have USD 100 million of cars…almost any car you can think of.

    Americans like to flaunt their wealth. Chinese don’t like people to know they are wealthy. It is insane to tell people your networth since people might just kidnap your kids. Happened to Li Ka Shing’s son and a lot of tycoons in HK. Now, all these billionaires are very low profile and earn their wealth from family or private businesses so they are not on Forbes. Jack Ma is an exception. I guess he never expected to be this rich…My dad knew Li Ka Shing and I have some interesting stories about him. Perhaps for another day…

    Having said all that, I also know people who live worst than Blacks in America. This extreme income and wealth inequality is at the root of HK’s political problems. It creates a tremendous amount of envy and animosity against the mainland Chinese.

  100. Malla says:
    @dearieme

    Actually one of the major reasons of colonisation was inter European rivalry (including Russia, later joined in by the USA and Japan). Thus the “Scramble for Africa”. The continues fear that some other power would get some strategic location or resource or market and close access to that to you especially at times of war. For example, China getting involved in Africa is raising eye brows for the USA as well European nations who have much older links with Africa via Empires as well as rivals of China like India. Because China went to Africa, India scrambled itself to get more involved in Africa out if fears of Chinese influence. It is the same emotion which fueled colonial conquest except that in these days of the U.N. it is not easy to conquer far away territory. Japanese Colonisation was often driven by fears of expanding Russian Empire (looking for warm water ports because of Russia’s geogrephy problem) and later out of fears of the spread of Communism in East Asia.
    There was also national prestige involved. The USA and USSR spent trillions of weapons that were never used or which would not be used. India and Pakistan both poor spend money on nuclear weapons and India spends money on space exploration via its ISRO even when people shit on streets. There is this desire of prestige, about how you feel as a tribe as a nation w.r.t other nations. This too played a part in European colonization, about how you felt w.r.t to the other European powers at that time in national prestige.
    Colonies were like the nukes of the cold war in between the USA and USSR, status symbols w.r.t the other European powers.
    In reality Colonies were quite expensive in the long run and many nations lost money on their colonies. You do not need colonies to become prosperous, just ask the Finns and Koreans.

  101. GeeBee says:
    @Mefobills

    Very well said, but I’d just make a small but important point regarding your statement that ‘Germany could have done a better job of ejecting their Jews, and then later in history we wouldn’t have to listen to pap like your above comment.’

    It wouldn’t matter one jot whether Germany had actually done to the Jews that which is endlessly claimed by the permanently-open spigot of propaganda, or whether they had bought them all a new suit, shoes, hat and gloves, given them today’s equivalent of a few thousand dollars in pocket money and paid for them to travel first-class to the destination of their choice. Even had the latter been true, that same permanently-open spigot of propaganda would still be spewing forth its unending drum-beat of ‘Nazi atrocities’. That they invented all this stuff in the first place demonstrates the truth of what I am saying. There is no credible evidence for any of it, and the vast majority of those of us who have studied the subject believe it all to have been a grotesque fabrication, based on wartime propaganda bolstered by the sibilations of that perennially handy source which we call rumour.

    The Allied victors and the Zionists (closely linked, but there is daylight between them) both had their differing reasons that made it imperative to paint the defeated Third Reich in the blackest possible colours. Regarding the Allies, they had to come up with something to counterbalance or ‘justify’ both their own hideous war crimes and the entire raison d’être behind attacking the axis powers in the first place. The Zionists, on the other hand, desperately needed some sort of major ‘justification’ for stealing Palestine from the Arabs: ‘We have paid for our homeland with the blood of six million of our people’. Yeah, right.

    Mark my words, the ‘endless pap’, uniquely irritating and disgraceful as it is, was inevitable the moment Britain declared war on Germany, and it was ramped up to what Joe Bidet might call ‘warp speed’ the moment FDR got his longed for Japanese attack on the Pacific Fleet, which he’d left dangling like the metaphorical carrot for so long at Pearl Harbour.

    • Thanks: Mefobills
    • Replies: @Mefobills
    , @Corvinus
  102. Marckus says:

    Well, a lot of interesting comments some from the usual suspects being utter nonsense. One guy supports his “assertions” by claiming that he doubts anyone else on UR has made more money than him. How does he know this ? At times some comments disintegrate into comedy !

    Being rich (earning and spending all) and being wealthy (earning, saving and investing) is a matter of perspective, a state of mind. A man who can live in a nice house just big enough for his needs, drive a Toyota, pay the bills, travel when he wants, eat well, has a moderate amount of entertainment, be well dressed, has enough set aside so he need not worry about losing his job etc is as rich and as wealthy as Mr Bigg who:
    -Owns a 15000 square foot home he actually occupies one month of the year
    -Owns a Porsche Cayenne but takes the Subway to work
    -Drinks a $500 bottle of Scotch a day wrecking his liver
    -Entertainment is attending Adult Clubs thus sapping his seed and manhood
    -Eats shit, snorts coke demolishing his health
    -Uses drugs to stay sharp so he can make more money so as to spend more money
    -Has the IRS after him for taxes owed
    -Has no cushion so if he loses his $1M a year salary it is Skid Row
    -And so on and so forth

    How many people here on UR would trade places with The Zuker ? With Bozos ?

    Contrary to popular belief it takes very little effort or skill to be a millionaire. One simple example. The 5 large Canadian banks trade on the NY Exchange. If a guy had invested $5000 in each in 1999/2000 or a total of $25000 his portfolio would now be worth $185,000. That excludes dividends which between all 5 average 4% per year. This assumes he just invested the $25000, went to sleep and woke up 20 years later. If he took a more active role and used a trailing stop to get out when these stocks declined and then got back in when they broke their downward trend, if he put just $1000 more per year in each of them he would be worth well over $1M. Now $1M earning an average of 4% is $40K per year. The stock market is now as complicated as it seems and does not require a Phd from Wharton. What one needs is patience and mental stability !

    In any Latin American country this $40K per year buys a very exclusive lifestyle. If a man would buy a nice bungalow in a small inland town for cash, he would be hard pressed to spend $40K even with his own maid and gardener. Taxes, utilities, are minimal and farm fresh food is cheap. He can head down to the nearest beach and kick it for the weekend for bubblegum change.

    If eligible for social security, a company pension and additional spousal income a fellow would have more money than he knew what to do with. Start a small business ! Who needs more than that ? A man needs to take that $1M and make $100M ? What for ?

    Around 1985 a friend of mine working on the oil rigs saved up $500K from and bought a beautiful bungalow in Timbo, Santa Catarina Brazil, an area mostly Italian and Germanic, that is to say, no Chimps. Cost of the house was $25,000. In their summer months (October to March) he heads down to the beaches in Florianopolis for the weekend.

    You don’t need millions to live well, to do what you want and throw off the bullshit of daily life and other people. It takes very little to be free.

    If in doubt ask my Bro Montefrio who lives somewhere in Argentina. I will bet his living expenses are low and he has peace of mind and can do whatever he wants. That is worth more than the fortunes of any of the 5 elites in the US and it does not require a lot of money.

  103. @Malla

    There was also Loot. Indian armies expected a share of the loot. The EIC tended to share it favourably. (This was also the secret of Ghengis Khan’s success – he gave his men a large and fair share of the loot). A relative, Fredrick Jones, a cousin not an ancestor, of mine commanded two regiments of Bengal cavalary at the 3rd Siege of Seringapatam. He was even elected Prize Officer, responsible for deciding the shares, by the other European officers. This did not make him rich. A normal officer of his rank had only one regiment with which to share the loot. With two regiments, he had almost nothing at the end as his men had their due. He had other adventures in Malaysia, Canton and Wales so it was not a terminal problem for him.

    India was full of warring states without which it might have been stronger. The rate of population growth increased under the EIC once peace was establisehd and particularly the Raj despite 1769 the Bengal Famine which EIC incompetence turned from a misfortune into a disaster.

    • Thanks: Malla
    • Replies: @Malla
  104. @Chinaman

    What is the point of a 2nd Ferrari? A first really. Very Noveaux Riche.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  105. @J. Alfred Powell

    Wealth=Land. Changing farm incomes change land ownership.

  106. HdC says:
    @Dieter Kief

    Thanks but I’m no philosopher. I do like Mark Twain’s admonition to: “Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you read”. The first part should now include any offering on television.

  107. MarkinLA says:
    @anonymous

    The problem with using the stock market as a yard stick is the whole thing has been corrupted by various changes in the law and by the Federal Reserve propping it up in the last 40 years.

    Prior to the 80s companies that got into trouble by borrowing too much simply disappeared in bankruptcy court. They usually had something left for the creditors. Now Chapter 11 allows them be be stripped to nothing by the management (Donald Trump’s empty casino’s come to mind). Now every major downturn in the market is met by money printing.

    The last big technology run up ended in the mid 60s. This was the market of the so-called Nifty-Fifty that everybody owned, companies such as IBM, Xerox, and Polaroid. Then after a huge run up, the bottom dropped out. People realized that at its heart, the stock market is a legal swindle. We next had inflation and stocks, considered much riskier than bonds, languished till the early 80s. Laws were changed that made corporate indebtedness a lot more attractive.

    Dividends were significant then and priced based on the interest rates which were high. Subsequently, stocks were trading at 1/2 book value since asset prices rose with inflation but stock prices did not. This was the real reason for the LBO boom of the 80s. We had a stock boom that should have ended in 1987 and brought some sanity to the market but Greenspan started us on this path where stocks never really go down.

    There is nowhere for interest rates to go, asset prices are above the average person’s ability to acquire them, and the young have no savings at all to speak of. At some point there has to be a major rebalancing, like the huge earthquake that might not have happened if only you had a series of smaller ones over the same time frame.

    • Replies: @James Thompson
  108. Corvinus says:
    @Mefobills

    “As I keep repeating, you are a serious knuckle head who cannot learn. Low IQ maybe?”

    Impugning one’s character is an ad-hominem attack, and is a low form of debate; it means you automatically lose.

    “All populations have a gaussian distribution, including that of white people. The right side of the bell curve of white people have plenty of genius to move the race forward. The people in the middle, the average people, are not the ones that make break-throughs. Also, they do suffer from pathological altruism. White women are especially prone to emotional histrionics and thinking with the feelings.”

    You said white people as a whole, NOT “those in the middle of the IQ curve” or “white women”, are easily deluded. Now you are making it seem that only a certain, rather large segment, is able to be manipulated. The more you talk about this matter, the more you have to backtrack your anti-White sentiments. Moreover, pathological altruism is not exclusively race based; rather, it falls on a continuum for human beings.

    “I don’t run away from addressing your inquiry’s, they are just trite and easily disproven, and when I do, you don’t learn. You are having your world view challenged and you don’t like it.”

    I will admit, projection is your strong suit.

    “Here we go again, and it is tedious to respond to low IQ people. I already explained this stuff to you but it didn’t stick. It is because I don’t go into book length detail, and you cannot pick up on things.”

    You mean you offered what amounts to as your opinion on the matter, rather than **the** definitive account.

    “I never claimed that authority, it is you setting up a strawman. The civilizational authorities under the law, or the hierarchy present at the time are the ones who do so. In the case of NSDAP Germany or Fascist Italy, or even today’s China, they have laws and procedures on hand. The Uyghurs are a case in point, where it was decided to round up the worst elements and put them in camps. Our civilization has norms for behavior, and you go to jail at some level.”

    You have claimed that authority, as you have stated you support a fascist government that essentially makes arbitrary decisions as to who is the “worst elements”. The norms for “our civilization” do NOT enable citizens like yourself to unilaterally make those decisions. And I see now you are changing the goalposts, as now you say it is only the “worst Uyghurs” put in camps, rather than the entire group. Praytell, what are the specific “civilizational norms” that this particular group explicitly violated?

    “The camps were intermediate between civilian life and jail.”

    No, the camps are a prison. You are making up this “middle” level to justify the subjugation of a free people.

    “I never said that, and it is another strawman – you pulling something out of your ass. All people have a fundamental right to exist.”

    That people have the fundamental right to exist to be free from harm by way of being forced into a camp despite breaking no law. How convenient to leave out an important point here.

    “Germany could have done a better job of ejecting their jews, and then later in history we wouldn’t have to listen to pap like your above comment.”

    To the contrary, there is a plethora of data that shows Jewish families being ripped apart. You simply choose not to believe it.

    https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/10/family-separation-effects-holocaust-children-trump.html

    https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-51148661

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-may-30-na-holocaust30-story.html

    https://www.ushmm.org/exhibition/personal-history

    Have you no shame and dignity when it comes to little Jewish boys and girls being subject to depravity and indifference?

    “They can be put in camps by choice, lead or gold. What is with this community B.S. American communities are constantly be torn about by finance capital”.

    I will not be deterred by your red herring. Ask a group of people what option they would take: 1) being physically sent to a camp against their will, with absolute no choice in the matter, because they need to be “reeducated” or 2) being able to live in their own community, with the liberty to make their own decisions as to who they see, how they work, and where they want to go?

    “People don’t make their own decisions as to who they see, how they work, or where they want to go. The overall framework of your civilization forces you into pathways. ”

    Pathways as determined by the individuals in that society, who created its various frameworks. In other words, people have free will and agency as they create their preferred civilization. That is patently true–human beings have a natural desire and capacity to know and understand the truth, to pursue moral excellence, and to instantiate their ideals in the world through direct action. Why you insist otherwise is definitively strange.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  109. Corvinus says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Jared Diamond was spot on. No lying at all.

    • Replies: @Malla
  110. MarkinLA says:
    @BorisMay

    Sorry, money equals freedom and possibilities. I don’t envy anybody’s wealth and know quite a few people who have much more than I. Some, unfortunately to me, don’t enjoy the money they have out of frugalness not because they are in some frenzy to always acquire more. They aren’t unhappy it is just they don’t do much with their free time but spend it on the computer or visiting in-laws.

    Why not learn how to do something challenging? No, it doesn’t have to include climbing Mt. Everest. There a million things to do to occupy your time if you have the money, and because of it, the free time.

    I am not hurting but, given all things being equal, it feels better knowing you don’t have to worry about paying the bills or that you take up (almost) any hobby you desire and not have to worry about the cost.

  111. Chinaman says:
    @Philip Owen

    Ha…it is the rare investment where you get to enjoy. Go google what is a 250 GTO or a Laferrari. Note how much they gone up.The latest speical limited version ( which only 500 people in the world have seen…) will at least double in price when it comes out. You won’t get an allocation of course If you have ONE Ferrari…

    Most self-made Noveaux Riche didn’t get there by being stupid. You have no idea. By the way, the biggest player in this alllocation “game” Are Americans. Talk about noveaux riche.

  112. Malla says:
    @Corvinus

    Jared Diamond should have stayed behind in Port Moresby with his intelligent Papauns and spewed his nonsense there. Would have been a great help to this world.

  113. Malla says:

    As far as the main article of this page, Max Roser and his“Our World in Data” etc… one of the easiest ways a nation can improve its material conditions in this post industrial Revolution age is to improve its human capital, its human raw material. And the easiest way to do this is to demographically increase the percentage of your national population who are White or East Asian. Simple. Among Whites more so Northern Europeans and among them more so North Western Europeans and among them have more Anglo-Germanians-Scandinavian types (descendants of Wootan/Odin worshipers). Among East Asians have more Japanese. Easy peezy.
    Of course this is not enough for prosperity, there are other factors but THIS IS GREAT START. So if the Congo changes in demographics via immigration such that 25% of its population is White and 25% East Asians, it would easily become the richest nation in Africa with the best standard of living. Higher standard of living than even South Africa, Botswana or the Arab-Berber nations of the North of Africa. Easy Peezy. The blacks of Congo would be the most prosperous Blacks in all of Africa and blacks from all around Africa would try to illegally migrate to this 50% White-Yellow populated Congo to enjoy the better quality of life. However if the President of Congo wants my advice about bringing in Jews and Indians, I would advise the President against it because whatever benefits they would bring, with time all wealth would get concentrated in the hands of a small group of blood sucking elites and the rest of the country would turn to slum. Not worth it, Congo. Keep em away.
    Next, for the love of God, keep your kids and people away from Cultural Marxist poison culture. Look towards Victorian-Baroque Europe/England, Kaiser Germany, Traditional Japan etc… or combine the best elements of all cultures, best elements of Islam combined with the best elements of Confucianism combined with the best elements of Orthodox Judaism etc…. . Best yet, cut through all the bullshit and have National Socialism. Not only will your population be rich, they would be happy too with good healthy families. Easy peezy.
    Have free education and free healthcare, those with talent, free higher education too. Those who do not wish to go to higher education, have a German style system to get them into useful trades. A good honest Plumber is a million times more valuable to a society then a Critical Theorist or a Professor of Women Studies, Professor of Post-Colonialism or Professor of Transgender Studies or whatever bullshit. And in a good society this honest hard working plumber should be able to afford a 60’s American dream with a decent house, cars, a good wife, kids and a pet dog. And good money for retirement and frequent vacations.
    Also for the love of God, avoid International bankers, central banks, usury, inflation etc..
    You could also look to Niel Fergussion’s 6 killer apps of prosperity.

    Not perfect but a lot of good points there.

  114. Malla says:
    @Philip Owen

    There was also Loot.

    Correct, lack of loot or spoils of war, after all of India was conquered by the EIC was one of the many reasons for the 1857 Sepoy mutiny. No new kingdoms to conquer, no more spoils of war, unhappy sepoys.

  115. @MarkinLA

    Yes, we are in a strange situation, with artificially low interest rates obscuring economic reality.

    • Agree: res
  116. Mefobills says:
    @GeeBee

    It wouldn’t matter one jot whether Germany had actually done to the Jews that which is endlessly claimed

    I’ve actually thought about this, as have you. I like to reduce things to their constituent parts.

    Finance International (private credit as money) + Narrative Control + Petri Dish = Death Spiral for European Whites.

    Finance International is first variable. Narrative Control is press organs and think tanks.
    Petri Dish is the people type. (Europeans or Mixed Race or Other )

    South Africa is a good case. A few jews and their followers destroyed the country. All three of the variables were in play. Jews owned the S.A press, and also international press organs, and also had their funded think tanks, including the Ford Foundation.

    The people type were white S.A who were narrative controlled to feel guilt, and then to commit collective suicide. The altruism of whites works great in an all white civilization, but the petri dish can be easily contaminated by an ethnocentric group working for their self interest.

    The three variables are now working on Sweden, as they are induced into collective suicide. Note that the press organs in Sweden are owned by the (((usual suspects))).

    The first of the three variables in the equation above, I’ve discussed at length – but not the other two. The big question is what is the low hanging fruit for the other two (Narrative Control + Petri).

    In other words, how can the stone be made to roll downhill with the lowest energy inputs. I’ll probably muse on these questions in a future posting.

  117. @Mefobills

    Finance International (private credit as money) + Narrative Control + Petri Dish = Death Spiral for European Whites.

    Diabolically ingenious, aren’t (((they))). John 8:44

  118. GeeBee says:
    @Mefobills

    Most interesting to link the specifics of WWII Allied propaganda to the ‘death spiral of Whites’ via your neat formula. I have, as you know, repeatedly linked this same death spiral to WWII and the Allied ‘victory’ over National Socialist Germany. Your formula sums up how that shameful day in 1945 has led slowly but inexorably to the near-complete vitiation of the White race that is so hated by the (((usual suspects))).

    A grim piece of practical mathematics indeed.

    • Agree: HdC
  119. Corvinus says:
    @GeeBee

    “There is no credible evidence for any of it, and the vast majority of those of us who have studied the subject believe it all to have been a grotesque fabrication, based on wartime propaganda bolstered by the sibilations of that perennially handy source which we call rumour.”

    Like Mefobills, you have been conditioned to use confirmation bias to the fullest extent possible in your “study”.

    https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/10/family-separation-effects-holocaust-children-trump.html

    https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-51148661

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2004-may-30-na-holocaust30-story.html

    https://www.ushmm.org/exhibition/personal-history

    Have you no shame and decency regarding the treatment of innocent children at the hands of Nazi Germany merely because they were labeled a “danger”?

    • Replies: @HdC
    , @GeeBee
    , @HdC
    , @Malla
  120. HdC says:
    @Corvinus

    The opinions of court historians* are worthless if what you want is the truth.
    *Those who get paid by institutions to espouse the official party line. They cannot afford to state anything near the truth for fear of losing their livelihood.
    Much better to read CODOH and Unz’s Denying the Holocaust.

    • Thanks: GeeBee
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  121. GeeBee says:
    @Corvinus

    ‘Like Mefobills, you have been conditioned to use confirmation bias to the fullest extent possible in your “study”.’

    Sez you. I have read everything worthwhile regarding this subject and my conclusions are based on a great deal more research than your own clear example of confirmation bias, to which your flaccid selection of ‘evidence’ attests.

    I started looking into the Holyhoax – this might surprise you – because I was outraged at something I’d read that challenged the orthodox, i.e. ‘exterminationist’ view. This was over ten years ago, when I was in my early fifties, and at that time I – a former Officer in the British Army – was fully signed up to ‘the evil Nazis’, ‘the good war’, the ‘greatest generation’ and Winston Spencer Churchill was one of my heroes, and I had read almost every word he had written.

    The deeper I got into researching this matter, however, the more I realised that there was nothing concrete, much less credible, on offer to support the legally-enforced orthodoxy of ‘Nazi atrocities’ (with the partial exception of the activities of the Einsatzgruppen, which are less clearly documented and were in any case part of the ‘fog of war’ rather than deliberately planned atrocities). To cut a long and harrowing story short, over the course of a couple of years my entire world view was turned upside down. I was miserable and depressed for a year or two. Now I am merely angry. And especially so at gaslighting lightweights such as you.

    That is all.

    • Agree: HdC, Lurker
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @Lurker
  122. HdC says:
    @Corvinus

    “…Have you no shame and decency regarding the treatment of innocent children at the hands of Nazi Germany merely because they were labeled a “danger”? …”

    Are you talking about the 3,600 babies born in Auschwitz, or the 10,000 German children starved to death by the Danes after the war?

    • Replies: @Malla
    , @Corvinus
  123. Mefobills says:
    @Corvinus

    Impugning one’s character is an ad-hominem attack, and is a low form of debate; it means you automatically lose.

    It is not an ad-hominem if you observe a pattern over a long period. It is the result of observation.

    Are you trying to prove my point?

    Do you deny that I and others are trying to get through the fog that exists between your ears?

    It is probably too much for you to accept that one can be a race realist and still have sympathy for other racial types?

    Segregation of unlike peoples is a benevolent solution, for which you seem to find as horrible. Why? Are you afraid of being ejected from white civilization? That white people might really wake up and find out that there are enemies within?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @GeeBee
  124. Malla says:
    @Corvinus

    Have you no shame and decency to push a lie, a lie leading to a real genocide in Palestine and the West?
    And why have exactly 6 million Jews being dying and getting tortured before the National Socialists even came to power. There are newspaper clippings on this. Is 6 a gematria number of the Jews?
    Does this have anything to do with number of beast, 666?

  125. Malla says:
    @HdC

    Cornball iz a bit confused, me thinks. He may be talking about all those children burnt up in the inhuman ruthless Satanic Holocaust of Dresden or maybe in the inhuman Satanic Holocaust of Hiroshima.

  126. Mokiki says:
    @martin_2

    Everyone seems to be missing an obvious example of a successful colony – the United States.

  127. bayviking says:
    @ruralguy

    Excellent summary of the economics, which has yet to achieve “science” status. The US benefited from extensive land, innovation and production all of which was multiplied many times over after victory from WWII, which set the stage for the Brenton Woods Agreement, locking the dollar into 88% of all international transactions and further amplified by the extensive use of belligerent military force based on the Kissinger policy “Control food and you control people. Control oil and you control nations”. Other countries are sick of this policy and plan to break out, which is not so easy to do. First an alternative system of money exchange must be developed which is accepted by a majority of nations. The US still has a lock on their system.

  128. Corvinus says:
    @HdC

    “The opinions of court historians* are worthless if what you want is the truth.”

    LOL, no. Doesn’t work that way by simply discounting the sources I provided by labeling them as “worthless”. Rather, you must directly challenge what they state with counter evidence. Historians have not perpetually lied, nor do they employ “their own criteria for accepting documents and other data as valid”. They strictly adheres to standards for research and scholarship as established by the field at large. Otherwise, employing that own subjective “rules of thumb” leads he/she to be subjective and slanted in their work. As a result, the best and most enlightening history is rigorous. Of course, there will always be contentious debate as to what the interpretations of facts mean, that goes with the territory of being a historian. Indeed, that is why we investigate.

    • Replies: @HdC
  129. Corvinus says:
    @GeeBee

    Sez you. I have read everything worthwhile regarding this subject and my conclusions are based on a great deal more research than your own clear example of confirmation bias, to which your flaccid selection of ‘evidence’ attests.”

    Talk about gaslighting on your part! You have to offer significant rebuttal to the sources I provided. What specifically do you believe the accounts are “flaccid”? How do you draw that conclusion based on that eyewitness testimony? Be specific.

    “The deeper I got into researching this matter, however, the more I realised that there was nothing concrete, much less credible, on offer to support the legally-enforced orthodoxy of ‘Nazi atrocities’ .”

    How do you address the first hand accounts of ex-German soldiers who bore witness to what happened at the work and death camps? Is **every or nearly every** single one other than credible and concrete? How are YOU able to make that judgment? Be specific.

    • Replies: @GeeBee
  130. Corvinus says:
    @Mefobills

    “It is not an ad-hominem if you observe a pattern over a long period. It is the result of observation.”

    LOL, of course it is ad hominem. We have interacted on a blog for a brief period of time. You disagree with what I say, so you make this “argument”. In that way, you do not have critically re-examine your own beliefs because you outright dismiss anything that counters it. Your “observation” is merely disguised as cognitive dissonance.

    “Segregation of unlike peoples is a benevolent solution, for which you seem to find as horrible. Why?”

    Only a benevolent solution to those who of your similar mindset. Feel free to segregate. But other people will make that personal choice for themselves.

    “Are you afraid of being ejected from white civilization? That white people might really wake up and find out that there are enemies within?”

    White people have free will and agency. They decide who is or who is not their “enemy” based on their own criteria, which may differ than your own standards.

    Let stay on topic. I see now you are changing the goalposts, as now you say it is only the “worst Uyghurs” put in camps, rather than the entire group. Praytell, what are the specific “civilizational norms” that this particular group explicitly violated?

    There is a plethora of data that shows Jewish families being ripped apart. How do you specifically address each one of those eyewitness accounts? Have you no shame and dignity when it comes to little Jewish boys and girls being subject to depravity and indifference?

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  131. GeeBee says:
    @Corvinus

    I’ve wasted more than enough time on you. If you are not part of JIDF (I suspect you might be; either that or someone who might just as well be) then I shall leave you to time. Posterity will – have no doubt about this – exonerate those of us who are, in today’s nightmarish world, condemned as ‘renegades’.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  132. GeeBee says:
    @Mefobills

    I have had it with this guy. His endless Talmudic hair-splitting is, to anyone attuned to this sort of thing, increasingly obvious. Either he is JIDF or he might just as well be. He’s on their side for sure. Which tells us two things: either he is actually one of them, or he serves them well, be it wittingly or unwittingly.

    He is, in either case, beyond help or hope. I intend to leave him to his own fate.

    • Agree: Mefobills
  133. Corvinus says:
    @GeeBee

    Right on cue. When faced with informational adversity, you bail and refer to me as someone who is Jewish or could be Jewish. Lol. That’s not how honest debate works. Try again.

  134. Corvinus says:
    @HdC

    Ah, yes, the old diversion tactic. Being something in unrelated to the topic at hand. We are discussing Nazi Germany, not atrocities committed by the Allied Powers.

    Praytell, what happened to those babies at Auschwitz?

    • Replies: @HdC
  135. Mefobills says:
    @Corvinus

    LOL. As you bring up little Jewish boys and girls as a guilt inducing strawman. How many Jewish kids are begging on the streets?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  136. Corvinus says:
    @Mefobills

    Yet another diversion on your part. Stop stalling. Answer the questions from Comment 133.

  137. HdC says:
    @Corvinus

    I’m not a historian, and what you write is likely the truth for the historian authors of most historical occurrences.
    But there is a huge BUT coming. The forgoing is definitely not true when the topic is Germany and WWI & WWII.
    The very idea that one will lose their job and, in Europe wind up in prison, when questioning the veracity of alleged occurrences during those times, ought to be sufficient reason to raise serious questions about said history.
    There is a 90 year old grandmother, among numerous others, in prison in Germany for that very questioning.
    I certainly have done sufficient reading on this topic to have led me to the conclusion that whatever is written about those times in the MSM, the opposite is likely much closer to the truth.

  138. HdC says:
    @Corvinus

    Why, they are the second generation of holohoax survivors sucking on the teat of Europe and USA, dontcha know.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  139. anon[719] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wally

    As for black slavery, it only existed because Africans sold their own slaves.

    That’s a dumb thing to say. Who would they have sold them to had there been no demand?

  140. Corvinus says:
    @HdC

    “Why, they are the second generation of holohoax survivors sucking on the teat of Europe and USA, dontcha know.”

    Are you suggesting that ALL or even MOST made it out alive? Citations, please, in light of this evidence, as well as offering proof–historical accounts, journal entries, newspaper writings–that these sources are other than accurate AND a direct explanation how and why Stanislawa Leszczyńska, a Polish Catholic midwife, is lying about what she went through.

    https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/arts-and-life/life/faith/survivor-shares-of-birth-at-auschwitz-568160902.html

    https://www.history.com/news/auschwitz-midwife-stanislawa-leszczynska-saint

    https://www.insider.com/how-polish-midwife-delivered-3000-babies-auschwitz-2020-1

    1. Angela Orosz-Richt (born December 21, 1944, Auschwitz concentration camp), is a Holocaust survivor. Orosz is one of only two babies known to have been born in the Auschwitz complex and survive to liberation.

    2. When she arrived at the camp, Leszczyńska found a German doctor and told him she was a midwife. He assigned her to work in the camp’s “maternity ward,” a set of filthy barracks that was less a place to care for pregnant women than a place to usher them into death.

    3. Most pregnant women at Auschwitz were simply sent to the gas chambers. Women who found out they were pregnant at the camp were sometimes given abortions by Gisella Perl, a doctor who helped prevent hundreds of women from giving birth. Often, when women were discovered to be pregnant they were summarily executed. Others were sent to a hospital barracks to wait out the rest of their pregnancy in squalid conditions. “Sister Klara,” a midwife who had been sent to the camp for murdering a child, oversaw the barracks with a woman named “Sister Pfani.” They were in charge of declaring babies born in the ward stillborn, then drowning them in buckets, often in front of the mothers who had just given birth. Sister Klara’s role did not include assisting with deliveries.

    “I’m not a historian, and what you write is likely the truth for the historian authors of most historical occurrences.”

    No, it is the truth based upon the facts themselves.

    “The very idea that one will lose their job and, in Europe wind up in prison, when questioning the veracity of alleged occurrences during those times, ought to be sufficient reason to raise serious questions about said history.”

    That’s a cop out on your part. It is on YOU to prove that they have NOT investigated fully.

    “I certainly have done sufficient reading on this topic to have led me to the conclusion that whatever is written about those times in the MSM, the opposite is likely much closer to the truth.”

    So, you’re a slave to your confirmation bias. Good to know.

    • Replies: @HdC
  141. HdC says:
    @Corvinus

    Eyewitness testimony is worthless without supporting forensic or other scientific, physical evidence.
    That’s not my quote, but from a state attorney in the US. You’re the accuser, you provide the evidence.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  142. Corvinus says:
    @HdC

    You are employing the legal standard here. Historians have their own process that is recognized, relevant, and rigorous.

    https://libguides.usc.edu/humanitiesresearch/historical

    Do you agree or disagree? Why?

    Now, assuredly, a person’s position is further strengthened when there is physical evidence, whether it be cases in the courtroom and among scholars. However, that is not absolutely required as you seemingly imply. Eyewitness testimony is valuable when there are multiple, similar accounts that have been verified.

    So, my challenge to you still stands—Are you suggesting that ALL or even made it out alive? Citations, please, in light of this evidence**, as well as offering proof–historical accounts, journal entries, newspaper writings–that these sources are other than accurate AND a direct explanation how and why Stanislawa Leszczyńska, a Polish Catholic midwife, is lying about what she went through.

    **Including physical evidence that shows specifically how and why ALL or MOST babies born at Auschwitz ended up in Europe or America. Or will you find a way NOT to hold yourself accountable to the criteria YOU implied must be adhered to, (even though it is not completely needed to support the position)?

    • Replies: @HdC
  143. Lurker says:
    @GeeBee

    I started looking into the Holyhoax – this might surprise you – because I was outraged at something I’d read that challenged the orthodox, i.e. ‘exterminationist’ view.

    Exactly what happened to me!

    I started looking into it precisely because I wanted to confront those hateful deniers online and I wanted the ammunition. After all, I had been reliably informed many times that it was the best documented event in history so defeating the deniers would be a simple matter. How could they endure in the face of all the obvious evidence I would be able to find in a few clicks online?

    Only to come up completely empty handed. So much so that I was now one of those dreaded deniers myself. It was quite shocking to me at the time.

    To cut a long and harrowing story short, over the course of a couple of years my entire world view was turned upside down. I was miserable and depressed for a year or two. Now I am merely angry.

    Exactly.

    • Thanks: GeeBee
    • Troll: Corvinus
  144. HdC says:
    @Corvinus

    Methinks it’s reasonable to insist on legally acceptable proof when the alleged perpetrator is forced to pay “compensation”. With out that legality is is blackmail.
    Thanks for describing the difference between “historians” and legal positions, and making my case.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  145. Corvinus says:
    @HdC

    “Methinks it’s reasonable to insist on legally acceptable proof when the alleged perpetrator is forced to pay “compensation”. With out that legality is is blackmail.”

    Who are you even referring to? Then again, I suspected you would be purposely vague and evasive when realizing you put yourself into an intellectual corner.

    “Thanks for describing the difference between “historians” and legal positions, and making my case”

    Lol, you haven’t made any case by way of evidence and reasoning. The fact of the matter is you are running away from substantive discourse. Address my questions from comment 145, please.

    • Replies: @HdC
  146. HdC says:
    @Corvinus

    Pleading ignorance, OK. I buy that as is so typical of (((tribe members))) cornered in an argument.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  147. Corvinus says:
    @HdC

    You never specified who you are discussing. Is it Orosz-Richt? Leszczyńska?

    And, right on cue like your ilk, you automatically assume that anyone who challenges your world view is Jewish. I am Goy. Pure Goy.

    We can now add strawman to your growing list of fallacies. You’ve already have red herrings, false conclusions, and projection.

    Let’s stay focused here. Are you suggesting that ALL or even MOST Auschwitz born babies made it out alive? Citations**, please, as well as offering proof–historical accounts, journal entries, newspaper writings–that the two women are other than accurate when describing their experienced.

    **Including physical evidence that shows specifically how and why they ended up in Europe or America.

    Because you are finding a way to NOT to hold yourself accountable to the criteria YOU implied must be adhered to, (even though it is not completely needed to support a position).

  148. HdC says:

    You first. YOU provide the physical evidence that 6 million Jews were gassed and burned.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @Malla
  149. Corvinus says:
    @HdC

    No, HdC, YOU made specific claims, now honor your own code instead of running away from discourse.

  150. Malla says:
    @HdC

    That is impossible. For something that never happened, how can he get any evidence?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  151. Corvinus says:
    @Malla

    You are a clown. What happened to Stanislawa Leszczyńska and Angela Orosz-Richt is well documented.

    • Replies: @Malla
  152. Anon[141] • Disclaimer says:

    The UK government managed to spend millions compiling a report on racial disparities:

    Commission on racial disparities.

    And also got an Oxford prof to produce a supporting report:

    Inequalities in educational achievement.

    Email: [email protected]
    Phone: 01865611071

    All without mentioning intelligence once. A bit like trying to figure out how plants grow whilst ignoring water.

  153. Malla says:
    @Corvinus

    Listen, you stupid money, there is a lot of research which shows all this Holohoax was bullshit some even done by Jews themselves like this Cole guy. Check out his video, if you can.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  154. Corvinus says:
    @Malla

    Again, you are a clown. What happened to Stanislawa Leszczyńska and Angela Orosz-Richt is well documented, as is the Holocaust. Notice that your buddy HdC ran away from discourse, Mr. Strawman.

    • Replies: @Malla
  155. Malla says:
    @Corvinus

    And you remain a jabbering monkey. No holocaust is well documented. There are enough evidence that the Holocaust is a hoax, there have been Jewish people who have come to the conclusion that it is a hoax.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  156. HdC says:

    Corvinus: I’ve never run away from anything.
    Still waiting for the physical/forensic evidence from you.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @GeeBee
  157. Corvinus says:
    @Malla

    I’ll say it again–you are a clown. What happened to Stanislawa Leszczyńska and Angela Orosz-Richt is well documented, as is the Holocaust. If you are of the belief that their accounts are false or falsified, YOU must offer specific evidence to the contrary. Go ahead, I’m all ears.

  158. Corvinus says:
    @HdC

    “Corvinus: I’ve never run away from anything.”

    Of course you are running away! Rather than focus on the topic at hand, you create diversions through fallacies—strawmen, red herrings, false conclusions, and projection. That way, you can state (wrongly) that I, rather than yourself, am avoiding forthright discussion. I suspect that no amount of studies that are cited or the links that I provided would even change your mind regarding the physical/forensic evidence of the Holocaust. Either YOU are going to believe it or not believe it. That’s YOUR decision.

    Nonetheless, that is NOT the topic at hand. Remember, YOU made this claim–“Why, they are the second generation of holohoax survivors sucking on the teat of Europe and USA, dontcha know”. That is why I responded to YOUR particular statement and am seeking clarification on YOUR part.

    Either you are going to directly respond or you are going to be evasive. YOUR choice.

    So, are you suggesting that ALL or even MOST Auschwitz born babies made it out alive? Citations**, please, as well as offering proof–historical accounts, journal entries, newspaper writings–that the two women are other than accurate when describing their experience.

    **Including physical evidence that shows specifically how and why they ended up in Europe or America.

    You continue to find a way to NOT hold yourself accountable to the criteria YOU implied must be adhered to (even though it is not completely needed to support a position).

    Until you make an honest, forthright effort here to support YOUR claim after I called you out on it, you are running away from substantive discourse on THIS MATTER.

  159. Anon[284] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chinaman

    China is about 20 years away from destroying the US?

    HAHAHAHAHAHA!

    If China did that, China would collapse back into a peasant country. The US is by far China’s biggest market. China would be killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. All that money would stop rolling into China, and the cash that’s already there in China would disappear into offshore havens as China’s wealthy class bolted and ran away from the ruins of their own country. The only reason China has billionaires is from selling products to the US.

    China keeps boasting about what a powerhouse its new Silk Road will be. Like selling occasional items to poverty-stricken countries like Tajikistan and Afghanistan will make up for losing the whole US market.

    Ridiculous.

    Let me give you a tip. You can only get rich by selling to an already rich country. A poor country can’t afford what you’re trying to sell them.

    • Replies: @Chinaman
  160. Chinaman says:
    @Anon

    Ridiculous?

    5% of China’s GDP are exports to America. About 20% of China’s economy is export dependent. China will grows its economy by 8% this year, mainly via internal consumption and increase in GDP per capita.

    So if US and China decouple completely, China can replace the demand completely in one year…just via internal growth.

    There will be GDP multiplier effects and it will shift the structure of the economy but it is a good thing for China to wane off low end production anyway.

    It will be disastrous for America if it decouples from China. Run on the dollar. Interest rate and inflation skyrockets. International trade will revert back to the gold standard as China and Russia will no longer accept USD.

    Let’s get this straight….it is China that is propping up America. Not the other way round.

    I believe the black and brown horde (or white trash like yourself ) maintain their subsistence with products made in China. The decoupling ensures that their standard of living will regress back to the Stone Age. These people will never produce anything. You can guarantee there will riots and looting like we have never seen. It will be very interesting.

    You have no idea about these things, do you ? If you don’t speak, no one will know you have a 2 digit IQ.

    • Agree: GeeBee
  161. Gordo says:
    @dearieme

    My wife met a Malaysian who said her mother was a great fan of the British. “Why?” “Because she remembers the Japanese.”

    Yes, amongst other things the Japanese allowed mosquitos to return to Singapore, which the British had previously wiped out.

  162. GeeBee says:
    @HdC

    As I discovered some time ago, our friend (((Corvinus))) has ‘skin in the game’. Why else would he be so desperately – and he is desperate – interested in showing that the good news we understand (and it is good news, when the extermination of six million people is shown not to have happened) is actually just the same old bad news? He needs the despicable lie of ‘muh six million’ because it is the one thing that undergirds the illegal occupation of Palestine by his sort. He is a filthy kike. Ignore him.

    • Agree: HdC
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  163. Craken says:

    Most of Landes’ recommendations are reasonable, though some NE Asian nations have done well without full implementation. However, he’s wrong about gender equality, which has been proven to cause dysgenics throughout the developed world, including NE Asia. America and Western Europe scarcely attempted this ill-conceived “equality” until well after WWII. What economic feats have these regions achieved since their elites began to attempt this experiment? What I see is radically reduced innovation in all fields outside of IT and Biotech, and this innovation stagnation means productivity stagnation. Women contribute negligibly to innovation, but now that they’re free from their prime duty, they contribute a great deal to safety-first culture and the over-regulation of…every aspect of life.
    That is a great explanatory picture of cognitive capitalism.

    • Replies: @James Thompson
  164. Corvinus says:
    @GeeBee

    LOL, we ALL have “skin in the game”. The extermination of Jews happened–one can quibble about the exact figure. Of course, my posts (150, 161) hit too close to home for you, which is why you responded by calling me a “kike”.

    I’m Goy, Pure Goy.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
    , @GeeBee
  165. Mefobills says:
    @Corvinus

    There is no data anywhere suggesting a state sponsored policy for Jewish extermination.

    There has even been money rewards for data, but none has been forthcoming.

    There have been trials where data was forged and then soundly defeated by Irving’s testimony.

    Of course Irving was persecuted for not going along with the hoax and being a dillegent historian who used only first hand source material.

    If you are a goy, you are a knucklehead resistant to correction.

    • Agree: GeeBee, HdC
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  166. GeeBee says:
    @Corvinus

    ‘I’m shabbos Goy, Pure shabbos Goy’.

    There, FIFY

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  167. @Craken

    Thanks for your comment. There’s a whole essay here. Judging the rate of innovation in different periods is fascinating but difficult. Facebook is an innovation, but often sneered at. SpaceX is certainly an engineering innovation.

    On the relative contribution of the sexes, you include Biotech as an area of innovation, and I agree, and women have been innovators in that field.

    Yet another topic for the to-do list.

  168. Corvinus says:
    @GeeBee

    Doubling down on ad hominem only shows you have completely lost the argument.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
    , @GeeBee
  169. Corvinus says:
    @Mefobills

    “There is no data anywhere suggesting a state sponsored policy for Jewish extermination.”

    Of course there is data, you’re just going to believe it or find ways to discredit it.

    “There have been trials where data was forged and then soundly defeated by Irving’s testimony. Of course Irving was persecuted for not going along with the hoax and being a dillegent historian who used only first hand source material.”

    No.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-3875824

    “If you are a goy, you are a knucklehead resistant to correction.”

    LOL, you disagree with what I say, so you make this “argument”. In that way, you do not have critically re-examine your own beliefs because you outright dismiss anything that counters it. Your “observation” is merely disguised as cognitive dissonance.

    Let us go back to something relevant to the conversation. I see you had changed the goalposts, as now you say it is only the “worst Uyghurs” put in camps, rather than the entire group. Praytell, what are the specific “civilizational norms” that this particular group explicitly violated?

    Moreover, ask a group of people what option they would take: 1) being physically sent to a camp against their will, with absolute no choice in the matter, because they need to be “reeducated” or 2) being able to live in their own community, with the liberty to make their own decisions as to who they see, how they work, and where they want to go?

    There is a plethora of data that shows Jewish families being ripped apart. How do you specifically address each one of those eyewitness accounts? Have you no shame and dignity when it comes to little Jewish boys and girls being subject to depravity and indifference?

    Furthermore, how do you address the first hand accounts of ex-German soldiers who bore witness to what happened at the work and death camps? Is **every or nearly every** single one other than credible and concrete? How are YOU able to make that judgment? Be specific.

    Many questions you patently avoid answering or desperately make efforts to divert attention so as not to admit your specious argument.

    • Replies: @HdC
    , @Mefobills
    , @Mefobills
  170. HdC says:
    @Corvinus

    How about the testimony of camp inmates who testified that nothing of the kind, as claimed by holocaustians, happened in their camp?

    As to all your accusations, projecting much?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  171. Mefobills says:
    @Corvinus

    Your BBC entertainment link didn’t work, and I highly doubt it would have shown ACTUAL NSDAP documents or data showing STATE SPONSORED POLICY FOR EXTERMINATION.

    It doesn’t exist, and you cannot find it, because nobody can find it. Better people than you have tried.

    There is a plethora of data that shows Jewish families being ripped apart. How do you specifically address each one of those eyewitness accounts? Have you no shame and dignity when it comes to little Jewish boys and girls being subject to depravity and indifference?

    That is the good-ole make whitey guilty attack. I don’t have white guilt.

    If you put it on a balance scale, then yes some Jewish families were ripped apart, but not by state policy for extermination. They in many cases were ripped apart due to Havarra, and the machinations of the “tribe” to move Jews to Palestine.

    Your balance scale – if you were fair, would also put other parts of humanity, including all of the German families ripped apart due to the wars visited on Germany, the hyperinflation, and then post war deaths. The Germans were predated upon much more severely than the Jews.

    But, you are not fair, you only care about Jewish families being ripped apart.

    I also put it to you. How many little Jewish boys and girls do you see begging on the streets today? As if Jews are perpetual victims, when the evidence doesn’t bear witness.

    I only replied to you as a lark, and then you fall back into your same knuckle-head pattern, which is why I am ignoring you. Nobody likes talmudic hair splitting.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  172. Mefobills says:
    @Corvinus

    Furthermore, how do you address the first hand accounts of ex-German soldiers who bore witness to what happened at the work and death camps?

    I have a great uncle on my wife’s side, who liberated the death camps. He is still alive believe it or not. His stories do not comport with narrative you are espousing, and he did not characterize them as death camps. (I had to pry the information out of him – as he, as a psychologically healthy individual, had shunted the war to the back of his brain, unlike Jews who seem to revel in victimhood.)

    I would not be at all surprised if there were some exception makes the rule examples, humanity being what it is. Even so, your supposed eyewitness accounts have to be backed up by forensic data, otherwise eyewitness is not good testimony. How many eye-witness Jewish stories have been debunked? There are plenty of Jewish whopper lies floating around, but then since you are not honest, you would not know that.

    During the war, the camps were used to make war material, labor being in desperate shortage. Germany was outmanned at least 3 to 1 by the allies.

    • Agree: GeeBee, HdC
  173. Mefobills says:
    @Corvinus

    Doubling down on ad hominem only shows you have completely lost the argument.

    You are a knuckle-head based on an evidentiary trail. Shabbos Goyim. I had to laugh, because it fits.

    I’ve already explained to you that it is not an ad-hominem if there is evidence. Ad-hominems are where you label somebody in advance, to then divert attention from their argument.

    In your case, you have already made the argument, and then you are labeled. Your pattern and your arguments can be described as a shabbos goyim in service of the tribe. That or you are Hasbarra, trying to be clever.

    I’m sure you are going to change your ways, since you have been corrected, right?

    • Agree: GeeBee
  174. GeeBee says:
    @Corvinus

    Neither I nor any of the others who have called you out regarding your behaviour has lost an argument. You have offered nothing at all save the same old tired, worn out propaganda and lies and then you appear to think that it is incumbent upon us to disprove a negative, by ‘proving’? the non-existence of the sort of documents that neither you not anyone at either of the Zundel trials could or can find. As Raul Hilberg (Mr holocaustianity’s High Priest) admitted ‘I am at a loss’ (of discovering any actual document that demonstrates there was such a policy.) No. It is down to you to find these documents and you cannot. As Mefobills has already said, if the likes of Hilberg can’t, then you have no chance whatsoever. But that doesn’t deter you. Oh no. With the zeal of a charlatan and the method of the mountebank, you persist in peddling the lies. The fact that many of us have formed a contrary opinion to yours means nothing at all to you. You assume a position of omniscient serenity that is as laughable as it is intellectually bankrupt.

    No impartial observer to this ‘argument’ could come away with the impression that you are not emotionally and dependently hooked into the Jewish extermination mythology, and thus that you are – perhaps unwittingly – indeed a shabbos goy (if not actually of the tribe yourself).

    Let me put it to you this way: if we, all of a sudden, came up with irrefutable evidence that the whole holocaust story is a tissue of lies (by, for example, presenting the sort of documents Hilberg ‘dreamt of’) you would simply shake your head, ignore us, and double down on your support for the shoddy lies and cynical propaganda out of which the whole thing grew. You are not remotely interested in any outcome other than six million dead Jews. You and that stance are joined at the hip. You need it; you suck it in each morning; you are dead to reason when it comes to contrary evidence.

    In short, you are ‘one of them’ either bodily or mentally.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  175. Corvinus says:
    @HdC

    “How about the testimony of camp inmates who testified that nothing of the kind, as claimed by holocaustians, happened in their camp?”

    Again, you make a claim, but willfully neglect to offer background and context. What are your sources? What particular testimony–interviews by historians, or trial testimony? What is its level of accuracy? How do you know? Furthermore, these camp inmates were Jews, correct? I thought we cannot trust ANYONE from “the tribe”, yet you are trying to say we ought to believe them when it suits your narrative? Why are you placing legitimacy on their testimony of seeing “nothing of the kind” compared to the eyewitness accounts of Jews and non-Jews which state to the contrary?

    “As to all your accusations, projecting much?”

    Exactly what I thought. You focus on diversion and run away from discourse. That is your M.O.

  176. Corvinus says:
    @Mefobills

    Here is the link.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-38758249

    “It doesn’t exist, and you cannot find it, because nobody can find it.”

    You are other than being truthful here.

    “That is the good-ole make whitey guilty attack. I don’t have white guilt.”

    No, it is merely asking a question, which you outright refute to answer, so you falsely characterize it in that fashion. Perhaps you lack empathy according to Hogan’s Scale (1969)?

    “If you put it on a balance scale, then yes some Jewish families were ripped apart, but not by state policy for extermination.”

    Now you are changing the goal posts by adding the “state policy for extermination” caveat. Why do you say “some families” when ALL or NEARLY all were rounded up, forced to move into ghettos, and eventually sent to camps against their will?

    “I only replied to you as a lark, and then you fall back into your same knuckle-head pattern…”

    You put yourself into an intellectual corner, so I understand why you are irrationally lashing out.

    “His stories do not comport with narrative you are espousing, and he did not characterize them as death camps.”

    You COULD be telling the truth here (as far as having this great uncle). Regardless, why does this ONE alleged narrative trump the verified accounts of thousands and thousands of Jews and non-Jews?

    “Supposed eyewitness accounts have to be backed up by forensic data, otherwise eyewitness is not good testimony.”

    No, historians have their own process that is recognized, relevant, and rigorous.

    https://libguides.usc.edu/humanitiesresearch/historical

    Now, assuredly, a person’s position is further strengthened when there is physical evidence, whether it be cases in the courtroom and among scholars. However, that is not absolutely required as you seemingly imply. Eyewitness testimony is valuable when there are multiple, similar accounts that have been verified.

    “I’ve already explained to you that it is not an ad-hominem if there is evidence.”

    No evidence on your part, just supposition based on confirmation bias. Anyone who challenges your thinking, you automatically label them in advance, and repeatedly and wrongly ascribe to that characterization. You are being patently dishonest here.

    “I’m sure you are going to change your ways, since you have been corrected, right?”

    I have been proven correct that you, GeeBee, and HdC are engaging in diversionary tactics to avoid uncomfortable truths.

  177. Corvinus says:
    @GeeBee

    “Neither I nor any of the others who have called you out regarding your behaviour has lost an argument.”

    Classic confirmation bias on your part here.

    “Oh no. With the zeal of a charlatan and the method of the mountebank, you persist in peddling the lies. The fact that many of us have formed a contrary opinion to yours means nothing at all to you. You assume a position of omniscient serenity that is as laughable as it is intellectually bankrupt.”

    Classic projection are your part here.

    “No impartial observer to this ‘argument’…”

    And, there it is, you bringing out the No True Scotsman Fallacy.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  178. GeeBee says:

    Look. You are clearly trained as a JIDF hasbara troll, and you therefore know the tactic of ‘Talmudic hair-splitting’. I am going to spread your example around the internet, because – kudos to you – I can honestly say that I have never, in more than a decade of encountering your sort, come up with a more obvious and odious example. You really are in a class of your own. ‘Knuckleheaded’ doesn’t come into it. You are an impervious Talmudic hair-splitter who deserves an Iron Cross Grade One (or of course, whatever the tribe’s equivalent honour might be).

    But in practical terms, you are a joke and an embarrassment to civilised, enlightened discourse. Sorry – but we are way above your Talmudic tactics here. You might cut the mustard in Tel Aviv, but here? I think not Schlomo.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  179. Corvinus says:
    @GeeBee

    Your digital temper tantrum does not suffice as argument. And your confirmation and projection is mighty strong, as you have the audacity to state I am an “embarrassment to civilized, enlightened discourse”–merely because I oppose your line of thinking and have offered evidence contrary to your narrative. Labeling me, a “Talmudic hair-splitter” LITERALLY means nothing, and does not promote healthy discussion. But I get it, as ANYONE who you vehemently disagree with on this particular topic will automatically receive this designation. In that way, you do not have to engage in critical thinking.

  180. Mefobills says:
    @Corvinus

    As Raul Hilberg (Mr holocaustianity’s High Priest) admitted ‘I am at a loss’ (of discovering any actual document that demonstrates there was such a policy.) No. It is down to you to find these documents and you cannot. As Mefobills has already said, if the likes of Hilberg can’t, then you have no chance whatsoever. But that doesn’t deter you. Oh no. With the zeal of a charlatan and the method of the mountebank, you persist in peddling the lies. The fact that many of us have formed a contrary opinion to yours means nothing at all to you. You assume a position of omniscient serenity that is as laughable as it is intellectually bankrupt.

    AND YOU REPLY to GeeBee WITH THIS:

    Classic projection are your part here.

    There is no projection, except by you. It is a fact that NO DOCUMENTATION EXISTS. It is also a fact that Germans are world class for being anal- retentive when it comes to documentation. There isn’t even anything in personal diaries indicating a state sponsored campaign of extermination.

    I told you I have a relative who liberated the camps, and not just one either – several. I could give you even more details, but why bother. You have your position and it is impervious to facts on the ground. For awhile I was mad at him for being aware of Jewish lies, and not countering it, but for some reason men like him have made a decision to put the war behind them and move on with life – unlike Jews.

    My position is that all Jews should leave, a divorce if you will. I would like to expand that to all jews and shabbos goy fellow travelers. Incompatible people should not be forced to live with each other.

    I recently had a discussion with a reasonable Torah Jew, but even he should be forced to leave. He was trying to convert me, and probably wasn’t Hasbara. The evidence is in, the Tribe – wherever they go, create problems and act like a parasite. Consensual civilization of reasonable men cannot arise when the Jew is present, he acts like an acid dissolving the bonds of trust.

    • Agree: HdC
    • Thanks: GeeBee
    • Replies: @Corvinus
  181. Corvinus says:
    @Mefobills

    “Consensual civilization of reasonable men cannot arise when the Jew is present, he acts like an acid dissolving the bonds of trust.”

    Wow, a false premise and a No True Scotsman fallacy all rolled into one.

    “AND YOU REPLY to GeeBee WITH THIS”

    Actually, I replied with my comment when GeeBee said ““Oh no. With the zeal of a charlatan and the method of the mountebank, you persist in peddling the lies. The fact that many of us have formed a contrary opinion to yours means nothing at all to you. You assume a position of omniscient serenity that is as laughable as it is intellectually bankrupt.”

    “My position is that all Jews should leave, a divorce if you will. I would like to expand that to all jews and shabbos goy fellow travelers. Incompatible people should not be forced to live with each other.”

    LOL, feel free to have that position, but it does not mean it is truthful, or accurate, or even justified. It’s merely YOUR opinion.

    “It is a fact that NO DOCUMENTATION EXISTS.”

    Of course documentation exists, you simply do not want to believe it.

    The US Army made many significant finds of Nazi booty and records, among them gold, currency, artworks, and documentation discovered on April 7, 1945, by engineers of the US 90th Infantry Division in the Kaiseroda Salt Mine in Merkers, Germany. Millions of documents were captured at various locations, including records of the German Army High Command records; files from Krupp, Henschel, and other German industrial concerns; Luftwaffe (German air force) material; and records kept by Heinrich Himmler (the Chief of the German Police and Reich Leader of the SS), the German Foreign Office, and many others. Even where central files had been destroyed, the Allies were able to some extent to reconstruct events and operations from the records they did secure. The Reich Security Main Office (RSHA) records, for example, were burned in the basement of its Prague regional headquarters but copies of many RSHA records were found and collected from the files of local Gestapo (secret state police) offices across Germany. Among the most crucial documents submitted as evidence at Nuremberg was the Wannsee Conference Protocol. This document is one of the most important surviving German documents on the Holocaust. It comprises the carefully revised minutes of the Wannsee Conference (January 20, 1942), chaired by Reinhard Heydrich, at which he outlined the expansion of Nazi mass murder to encompass 11 million Jews in Europe. The Protocol was compiled, and heavily edited, by Adolf Eichmann from notes taken during the meeting. It identifies not only the participants at the conference, but their agreement to collaborate on a continental scale in the “Final Solution to the Jewish Question,” in other words, mass murder.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/unearthing-the-atrocities-of-nazi-death-camps/

    Now, please focus here on these inquiries below, rather than engage in constant diversionary tactics.

    I see you had changed the goalposts in a previous post, as now you say it is only the “worst Uyghurs” put in camps, rather than the entire group. Praytell, what are the specific “civilizational norms” that this particular group explicitly violated?

    Moreover, ask a group of people what option they would take: 1) being physically sent to a camp against their will, with absolute no choice in the matter, because they need to be “reeducated” or 2) being able to live in their own community, with the liberty to make their own decisions as to who they see, how they work, and where they want to go?

    There is a plethora of data that shows Jewish families being ripped apart. How do you specifically address each one of those eyewitness accounts? Have you no shame and dignity when it comes to little Jewish boys and girls being subject to depravity and indifference?

    Furthermore, how do you address the first hand accounts of ex-German soldiers who bore witness to what happened at the work and death camps? Is **every or nearly every** single one other than credible and concrete? How are YOU able to make that judgment? Be specific.

    Finally, you COULD be telling the truth here (as far as having this great uncle). Regardless, why does this ONE alleged narrative trump the verified accounts of thousands and thousands of Jews and non-Jews?

  182. HdC says:

    “…Furthermore, how do you address the first hand accounts of ex-German soldiers who bore witness to what happened at the work and death camps? Is **every or nearly every** single one other than credible and concrete? How are YOU able to make that judgment? Be specific….”

    First, all so-called confessions obtained from the accused during the Nuernberg trials were obtained via torture. Several USA Supreme Court Justices are on record of having observed this in person.

    During later trials in Germany it had been made illegal to “deny the holocaust”, including any effort to provide evidence contrary to the “Offenkundigheit” pertaining to the holocaust. Consequently the accused were unable to mount a decent defence and vigorous to these fraudulent allegations.

    The only defence available was of the “Yes, but” type, where the accused was forced to acknowledge the lies but then dissociate himself by stating that he knew nothing of what was supposed to have happened.

    Please do not ask me to provide you with references; much better for you to dig them out yourself and then critique them if you wish.

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