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Hillary Clinton: Electing a Foreign Spy for President?
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During her 4 years as Secretary of State of the United States (2009- 2014), Hillary Clinton controlled US foreign policy. She had access to the most confidential information and state documents, numbering in the tens of thousands, from all of the major government departments and agencies, Intelligence, FBI, the Pentagon, Treasury and the office of the President. She had unfettered access to vital and secret information affecting all US policy in all the key regions of the empire.

Today, Mme. Clinton’s critics have focused on the technical aspects of her violations of State Department procedures and guidelines regarding handling of official correspondences and her outright lies on her use of her own private e-mail server for official state business, including the handling of highly classified material in violation of Federal Records laws, as well as her hiding official documents from the Freedom of Information Act and concocting her own system exempt from the official oversight which all other government official accept.

For many analysts, therefore, the issue is procedural, moral and ethical. Mme. Clinton had placed herself above and beyond the norms of State Department discipline. This evidence of her arrogance, dishonesty and blatant disregard for rules should disqualify her from becoming the President of the United States. While revelations of Clinton’s misuse of official documents, her private system of communication and correspondence and the shredding of tens of thousands of her official interchanges, including top secret documents are important issues to investigate, these do not address the paramount political question: On whose behalf was Secretary Clinton carrying out the business of US foreign policy, out of the review of government oversight?

The Political Meaning and Motivation of Clinton’s High Crimes Against the State

Secretary Clinton’s private, illegal handling of official US documents has aroused a major FBI investigation into the nature of her activities. This is separate from the investigation by the Office of the Inspector General and implies national security violations.

There are several lines of inquiry against Mme. Clinton:

  1. Did she work with, as yet unnamed, foreign governments and intelligence services to strengthen their positions and against the interest of the United States?
  2. Did she provide information on the operations and policy positions of various key US policymakers to competitors, adversaries or allies undermining the activities of military, intelligence and State Department officials?
  3. Did she seek to enhance her personal power within the US administration to push of her aggressive policy of serial pre-emptive wars over and against veteran State Department and Pentagon officials who favored traditional diplomacy and less violent confrontation?
  4. Did she prepare a ‘covert team’, using foreign or dual national operative, to lay the groundwork for her bid for the presidency and her ultimate goal of supreme military and political power?

Contextualizing Clinton’s Clandestine Operations

There is no doubt that Mme. Clinton exchanged minor as well as major official documents and letters via her private e-mail system. Personal, family and even intimate communications may have been carried on the same server. But the key issue is that a large volume of highly confidential government information flowed to Clinton via an unsecured private ‘back channel’ allowing her to conduct state business secretly with her correspondents.

Just who were Secretary Clinton’s most enduring, persistent and influential correspondents? What types of exchanges were going on, which required avoiding normal oversight and a wanton disregard for security?

Clinton’s covert war policies, which included the violent overthrow of the elected Ukraine government, were carried out by her ‘Lieutenant’ Under Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, a virulent neo-conservative holdover from the previous Bush Administration and someone committed to provoking Russia and to enhancing Israel’s power in the Middle East. Clinton’s highly dangerous and economically destabilizing ‘brainchild’ of militarily encircling China, the so-called ‘pivot to Asia’, would have required clandestine exchanges with elements in the Pentagon – out of the State Department and possibly Executive oversight.

In other words, within the Washington political circuit, Secretary Clinton’s escalation of nuclear war policies toward Russia and China required secretive correspondences which would not necessarily abide with the policies and intelligence estimates of other US government agencies and with private business interests.

Clinton was deeply engaged in private exchanges with several unsavory overseas political regimes, including Saudi Arabia, Israel, Honduras and Turkey involving covert violent and illegal activities. She worked with the grotesquely corrupt opposition parties in Venezuela, Argentina and Brazil.

Clinton’s correspondence with the Honduran armed forces and brutal oligarchs led to the military coup against the elected President Zelaya, its violent aftermath and the phony election of a pliable puppet. Given the government-death squad campaign against Honduran civil society activists, Clinton would certainly want to cover up her direct role in organizing the coup. Likewise, Mme. Clinton would have destroyed her communications with Turkish President Erdogan’s intelligence operations in support of Islamist terrorist-mercenaries in Syria and Iraq.

Secretary Clinton’s e-mail would have shown her commitment to the Saudis when they brutally invaded Bahrain and Yemen to suppress independent civil society organizations and regional political rivals.

But it is Clinton’s long-term, large-scale commitment to Israel that goes far beyond her public speeches of loyalty and fealty to the Jewish state. Hillary Clinton’s entire political career has been intimately dependent on Zionist money, Zionist mass media propaganda and Zionist Democratic Party operations. In exchange for Clinton’s dependence on political support from the Zionist power configuration in the US, she would have become the major conduit of confidential information from the US to Israel and the transmission belt promoting Israel-centric policies within the US government.

The entire complex of Clinton-Israel linkages and correspondences has compromised the US intelligence services, the State Department and Pentagon.

Secretary Clinton went to extraordinary lengths to serve Israel, even undermining the interests of the United States. It is bizarre that she would resort such a crude measure, setting up a private e-mail server to conduct state business. She blithely ignored official State Department policy and oversight and forwarded over 1,300 confidential documents and 22 highly sensitive top-secret documents related to the ‘Special Access Program’. She detailed US military and intelligence documents on US strategic policies on Syria, Iraq, Palestine and other vital regimes. The Inspector General’s report indicates that ‘she was warned’ about her practice. It is only because of the unusual stranglehold Tel Aviv and Israel’s US Fifth Column have over the US government and judiciary that her actions have not been prosecuted as high treason. It is the height of hypocrisy that government whistleblowers have been persecuted and jailed by the Obama Administration for raising concerns within the Inspector General system of oversight, while Secretary Clinton is on her way to the Presidency of the United States!


Many of Clinton’s leading critics, among them two dozen former CIA agents, have presented a myth that Hillary’s main offence is her ‘carelessness in handling official documents and her deliberate deceptions and lies to the government.


These critics have trivialized, personalized and moralized what is really deliberate, highly politicized state behavior. Mme. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was not ‘careless in managing an insecure mail server’. If Clinton was engaged in political liaison with foreign officials she deliberately used a private email server to avoid political detection by security elements within the US government. She lied to the US government on the use and destruction of official state documents because the documents were political exchanges between a traitor and its host.

The 22 top secret reports on ‘Special Access Programs’ which Clinton handled via her private computer provided foreign governments with the names and dates of US operatives and proxies; allowed for counterresponses inflicting losses of billions of dollars in program damages and possibly lost lives.

The Inspector General Report (IGP) deals only with the surface misdeeds. The Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) has gone a step further in identifying the political linkages, but faces enormous obstacles from Hillary’s domestic allies in pursuing a criminal investigation. The FBI, whose director is a political appointee, has suffered a series of defeats in its attempts to investigate and prosecute spying to Israel, including the AIPAC espionage case of Rosen and Weismann and in their long held opposition to the release of the notorious US-Israeli spy, Jonathan Pollard. The power of the Zionists within the government halted their investigation of a dozen Israeli spies captured in the US right after the attacks of September 11, 2001.

Clinton’s choice of conducting secret private communications, despite several years of State Department warnings to abide by their strict security regulations, is an indication of her Zionist power base, and not a mere reflection of her personal hubris or individual arrogance.

Clinton has circulated more vital top-secret documents and classified material than Jonathan Pollard.

President Obama and other top Cabinet officials share her political alliances, but they operate through ‘legitimate’ channels and without compromising personnel, missions, funding or programs.

The executive leadership now faces the problem of how to deal with a traitor, who may be the Democratic Party nominee for US President, without undermining the US quest for global power. How does the executive leadership and intelligence agencies back a foreign spy for president, who has been deeply compromised and can be blackmailed? This may explain why the FBI, NSA, and CIA hesitate to press charges; hesitate to even seriously investigate, despite the obvious nature of her offenses. Most of all it explains why there is no indication of the identity of Secretary Clinton’s correspondents in the various reports so far available.

As Sherlock Holmes would say, “We are entering in deep waters, Watson”.

(Republished from The James Petras Website by permission of author or representative)
• Category: Foreign Policy, Ideology • Tags: 2016 Election, Hillary Clinton 
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  1. alexander says:

    This is without doubt a blistering critique , Mr Petras.

    But Nothing hits home more profoundly to all Americans, then the absolute “carnage” these duplicitous policy’s have inflicted on our Nations balance sheet.

    Our never ending excursions and blood lettings in the middle east have extracted $15,000,000,000,000.00, BEYOND WHAT WE HAVE, from our nations purse.

    This is a surreal amount of money which has simply “vanished” from our nations future.

    What can we tell our sons and daughters, when they come of age, and all the money they were supposed to have, to run their country, was wholly “devoured” by Mrs Clinton and her sorted “power configurators”, in their feckless , pernicious, and never ending wars ?

    What do we tell them ?

    As a matter of fact, what can we possibly say ?

    The greatest nation on earth….went belly up……for “Israel” ?

  2. The Scalpel says: • Website

    Exile Hillary to Russia and bring home Snowden for POTUS!

  3. grmbl says:

    $100 million paid to Clinton Foundation by Gulf Arabs. How much by Israelis and Jews?

    Follow the money.

    • Replies: @Connecticut Famer
  4. When Hillary Rodham Clinton became Secretary of State one of her legal obligations was to appoint an Inspector General for the State Department. She never did and for her entire term in office the State Department lacked an IG. This was a gross and utterly unprecedented violation of federal law. It strongly suggests that Clinton was planning illegal conduct in office before she even took her oath and preparing mechanisms to enable her planned criminal acts.

    That the MSM have so obfuscated this particular issue is a scandalous indictment of both their morality and competence.

  5. RonaldB says:

    Your whole premise doesn’t make sense to me.

    You try to make the case that Clinton compromised not only US intelligence, but US policy and physical security because of a loyalty or fealty to Israel.

    I fail to see where Israel’s interests lie in a weakened, fragmented, or bankrupt US. The results of US “policy” in the Middle East: a close call with a Muslim Brotherhood government in Egypt, the breakup of Syria, the breakup of Iraq, the destruction of Libya, the path to nuclear weapons and intercontinental missiles for Iran: all carried out or begun under Clinton’s watch: these events simply do nothing for Israel’s security and in fact seriously compromise it.

    Israel would have an interest in obtaining US intelligence information, all other things being equal, although the bad feelings involved in the Pollard affair hardly justified the results, which some analysts claim could have been obtained by Israel simply by asking for it. Israel also would have an interest in building settlements or apartments on disputed lands. This should by rights be treated as an internal affair by Israel, with almost no US involvement. It does not involve a compromise of vital US secrets.

    Israel probably disliked the coherent government of Syria, as it was allied with Iran, and wanted to win back the Golan Heights, making it a threat in any generalized conflict with Israel. The real threat, however, was always Iran. It is in the interest of both the US and Israel to not allow Iran to gain nuclear weapons or intercontinental missiles.

    In other words, I simply don’t see how even a devotion to Israel’s interests as primary to those of the US would justify the traitorous actions of Clinton you describe. If Israel has such influence over US policies, it is in the strongest interest of Israel for the US to maintain its industrial base, intelligence capabilities and its support of Western principles.

    I also don’t really understand your gratuitous reference to the arrest of Israeli spies right after 9/11. Are you implying Israeli involvement with 9/11? If so, come out and say it, so your assertion can be subject to a critique. Otherwise, why throw in this statement out of the blue?

  6. Mulegino1 says:

    Of course the Israeli government (or at the very least, Israeli operatives) was involved in 9/11!

    The overwhelming majority of the principal actors in the events which occurred in Lower Manhattan, including the WTC lease holder Silverstein, were Zionist Jews. 9/11 was the most spectacular case of “Jewish lightning” in history! Silverstein had just recently leased the WTC for a relatively insignificant sum (60,000,000 dollars or so) and received a multi-billion dollar insurance payment for the “terrorist attacks”. Yet, why was this obvious “cui bono” ignored by both the press and law enforcement?

    Virtually all of the suspects first arrested in connection to the attacks were Israeli nationals, including the three Israelis arrested by the East Orange New Jersey police after they were reported by an eyewitness to have been filming the attacks and congratulating one another upon watching the Towers burn. They were employees of Urban Moving Systems, a Mossad front company. The explosive laden vans widely reported by law enforcement to have been found in the Lincoln Tunnel and near the George Washington Bridge were all driven by Israelis.

    Virtually all of the dozens of Israeli nationals who were arrested by authorities in the wake of the attacks were ordered deported to Israel. This was no doubt done at the behest of the dual citizen and Zionist Jew, Michael Chertoff, who was then

    The ridiculous “official narrative” of the 19 fanatical Muslim hijackers has been totally discredited, and can be dissected by any precocious third grader with a rudimentary knowledge of Newtonian physics.

    • Replies: @alexander
    , @RonaldB
    , @Wally
  7. alexander says:

    It sure is interesting, Mulegino,

    That while the WHOLE WORLD was nearly beside themselves in total shock, at this unprecedented “event” …having NO CLUE what was going on….

    ..There were these….. “Dancing Israeli’s” ,… doing a little celebratory “Jig”,… back slapping ,…high five-ing,…. and what have you…

    Damn interesting….indeed.

  8. @grmbl

    “How much by Israelis and Jews?”

    And God-knows-who-else!

    Of particular interest is exactly how much co-mingling there was of State Department activity with Clinton Foundation activity. How many deals did she cut with foreign entities including, but not limited to foreign governments, all in consideration for a “donation” to that foundation of theirs. If and when the wraps come off, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if we discover that it was nothing more or less than a money laundering scheme the likes of which would make Mafiosi green with envy.

    Yes indeed–“Follow the money.”

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
    • Replies: @Seoulsurvivor
  9. RonaldB says:

    The “ridiculous ‘official narrative’ of the 19 fanatical Muslim hijackers” whose bodies were found in the wreckage of the planes, whose applications for entrance into the US were published, whose travels in the US attending flight schools and rehearsing for the hijacking are documented…

    So, was Michael Chertoff acting for the profit of Silverstein so he could collect huge insurance payments, or was Chertoff acting on behalf of the Israeli government, which for its own reasons wanted to destroy the WTC?

    I notice you didn’t mention that the Jewish employees at the WTC center received phone calls telling them to not come to work that day. Did that slip your mind, or was that just an anti-Semitic rumor of no credence?

    Let’s go back to the motivation that Israel might have had to destroy the WTC. It’s well documented that the Bushes, and George W. Bush in particular had strong Saudi ties. In fact, the Saudi families that left abruptly right before 9/11 have begun receiving some publicity lately. Were the Saudis also in complicity with the Israelis? So, we have a conspiracy of Saudi Arabia and Israel, both US allies and both officially enemies of each other, conspiring to cause major destruction in the US. How interesting and counter-intuitive these times are.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
  10. Mulegino1 says:

    As Conan Doyle put it, “If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”.

    The official 9/11 narrative is false for any number of reasons, but here are two of the most compelling:

    A commercial airliner, such as the Boeing 767 (UA 175) alleged to have flown into WTC 2, is composed mostly of a hollow, think skinned aluminum and fiberglass tube filled with air (fuselage), an extremely delicate nose cone (which can be damaged by striking or being struck by a bird in flight), light, ductile and mostly hollow wings (fuel tanks are inside them), whose tips are too delicate to house anything but the running lights, two light but indestructible titanium engines, landing gear and tail. The very idea that such an aircraft can collide into the massive structural steel box columns and concrete floor pans of WTC 2 without being shredded into mostly metallic shards resembling confetti is, in the real world, (perhaps not in Hollywood, but in the real world) absolutely ludicrous. In the real world most of the aircraft and most its components would have been shredded to bits and fallen into the street below the point of impact. Instead, the official narrative would have us believe that the plane left a “cartoon cutout” of itself!

    The claim that the WTC Towers “collapsed” due to hydrocarbon based office fires weakening the steel trusses is equally ridiculous. There was no collapse. WTC 1 and 2 exploded outward from within and most of the buildings’ core columns (cement and structural steel) were literally disintegrated, turning into the dust cloud that blanketed Lower Manhattan. Neither hydrocarbon based office fires nor gravity collapses have anywhere near (by orders of magnitude) the kinetic energy to cause such an event. Such fires do not generate electromagnetic pulses (how else can one explain the burned out metal of automobiles with yet perfectly intact non-metallic components – none of which was struck by any debris or burned in any of the fires?), mushroom clouds or self-fueled underground fires, which burned for MONTHS after September 11.

    As to Saudi – Israeli complicity, it makes perfect sense; the Saudis and Israelis are equally despised in the non-Salafist Muslim world; they have common geopolitical interests – which they are pursuing today in their close collaboration in trying to overthrow Assad in Syria. The Wahhabi terrorists (ISIS) are even now receiving medical care in IDF field hospitals on the Golan Heights.

    My educated guess is that the Saudis funded the “Hijacker legends”, i.e., those posing as Jihadist fanatics taking flight training, while the Israelis provided the mechanics who destroyed the WTC.

    I never claimed no Jews died in the WTC. I know that before the event, Israelis were warned to vacate the WTC by an Israeli based messaging service, Odigo.

    • Agree: Bill Jones
  11. Since there are reports that the Russians have copies of her emails, it probably behoves them to release them. The feeding frenzy over Trump’s shot from the hip at the judge who is, in fact, probably biassed, is being used by the regime to instal the fascist Harpy. The question, though, is whether people really believe the press any longer, and the other question is whether if Trump brings up the Libya thing, including the fact the el qaeda thugs Hillary helped instal in Libya did a massacre of 30,000 Africans living near Benghazi as “mercenaries” as reported by the mainstream BBC the structure will be able to dismiss this proven fact as a conspiracy theory. Tough times are ahead.

    • Replies: @Wally
  12. KA says:

    “I fail to see where Israel’s interests lie in a weakened, fragmented, or bankrupt US. The results of US “policy” in the Middle East: a close call with a Muslim Brotherhood government in Egypt, the breakup of Syria, the breakup of Iraq, the destruction of Libya,”


    “cauldronize” the Middle East: turn the region into a boiling cauldron. Ledeen wrote in 2002 in support of invading Iraq:

    One can only hope that we turn the region into a cauldron, and faster, please. If ever there were a region that richly deserved being cauldronized, it is the Middle East today.”

    2 Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was urged to “break out” of Israel’s alleged stagnation and undertake a campaign of “regime change” across the Middle East, targeting Lebanon, Libya, Syria, Iraq, and eventually Iran. ” by a gaggle of neocons — [Richard] Perle, Douglas Feith, James Colbert, Charles Fairbanks, Jr., Robert Loewenberg, David Wurmser, and Meyrav Wurmser
    3 Yoded Yionon was goading Isreali elite to maneuver the genesis of the disintegration of ME . Ariel Sharon was trying to divide Lebanon along religious lines .

    4 “This is in accordance with the current neocon line that Iran and the Shi’ites are the main enemy, and that the Sunnis are really our friends.” – this jells well with the
    “Ayad Jamal al-Din, a liberal Iraqi cleric and politician: “The war in Syria and the war in Iraq are one and the same,” he said on June 10. “Both in Syria and in Iraq, it is a war against ISIS. The United States strives to weaken the Syrian regime, and this benefits ISIS, but in Baghdad, it supports the regime against ISIS. This is suspicious and perplexing, to tell you the truth.”

    5 “Libyans overall can be quite fractious, so carving that channel in a way that’s good, that they’re going to say is good, is what we’re trying to do, even if we can’t predict where individual droplets are going to go, even if it’s going to take time, which it is and it will.” State Department’s special envoy to Libya

    6 Cannibalization of ME -( balkanization )

    ” following map was prepared [ shows rump states numbering a few dozen out of ME]by Lieutenant-Colonel Ralph Peters. It was published in the Armed Forces Journal in June 2006, Peters is a retired colonel of the U.S. National War Academy. (Map Copyright Lieutenant-Colonel Ralph Peters 2006).

    7 Former US National Security Adviser Henry Kissinger understood that the key to dismembering a nation was attacking its national identity. This entails attacking the history from which this identity is based upon. In an event at Michigan University Kissinger stated that he would like to see Syria balkanized, asserting that Syria is not a historic state and is nothing but an invention of the Sykes-Picot agreement in the 1920’s”

    8 It was Kissinger who ordered teh dissolution of Iraq into violence after 2003 war by putting his protege

    “Please note that it was Kissinger’s protégé and partner, Ambassador L. Paul “Jerry” Bremer III, the Managing Director of Kissinger Associates, Inc. for more than a decade, whom Cheney/Rumsfeld/Bush placed in charge of the occupation of Iraq when Cheney/Rumsfeld/Bush inexplicably cashiered the honest and fair-minded Lt. General Jay Garner, after scarcely a few weeks on the job. An item from the Sunday Telegraph of London dated October 15th, 2006 [”There was a plan for Iraq, but it was torn up”] is most informative. It summarizes the Kissinger connection..


    and more “Bremer immediately countermanded all three of Garner’s “musts”. [My emphasis.] When, eventually, Garner confronted Rumsfeld, telling him: “There is still time to rectify this,” Rumsfeld refused to do so.

    And who was assisting Dr. Kissinger to program the new U.S. proconsul in Baghdad? Who was Paul Bremer’s primary contact at the Pentagon, overseeing the occupation from Washington, with the blessing of Don Rumsfeld? None other than the award winning hyperZionist zealot, Douglas “clean break” Feith, the man who had advised Likud icon, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (aka Bibi Nut & Yahoo) to attack Iraq, Syria and Lebanon in 1996 and tear up the Oslo “peace process”. Even Bibi regarded that advice as over the top.

    Why Israel is periodically bombing Syria if a weakened or divided Syria were not the goal?

    – The 2nd part of your observation–”
    the path to nuclear weapons and intercontinental missiles for Iran: all carried out or begun under Clinton’s watch: these events simply do nothing for Israel’s security and in fact seriously compromise it.”

    You may want to rewrite it given the abundance of the rich sources documenting the civilian nature of Iranian nuclear program which now also has been capped .

  13. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    I want to introduce the readers to a new way of looking at people. Since I was exposed to this idea about 25 years ago I’ve found it to be very useful in making quick judgements about people’s personality and health, both mental and physical.

    Sanpaku. Ever heard that word before? Well you have now. It is a term used in Japanese traditional medicine to describe people who show the bottom whites or their eyes between their iris and their bottom eyelid. It is much easier to describe in a simple picture so I suggest you google it. Here is a link:

    Now people with this condition are often not really well or are, in rare cases, of a religious disposition. Their eyes are turned towards God, as it were. But generally they are somewhat metabolically imbalanced.

    There is another type of Sanpaku in which people instead of showing the whites at the bottom of their eyes reveal the whites at the top of their eyes. These people should be treated with caution. They are like to be short tempered and dangerous. Many people who commit violent crimes, murder, etc have this condition.

    Well Hillary Clinton has the latter form of Sanpaku in spades. I first noticed this in photographs years ago and there are hundreds of examples. Here’s a typical one:

    I can’t say I’m a fan of Trump but I’m afraid I’d choose him over Hillary. I don’t like the idea of someone with this sort of sanpaku having their fingers anywhere near the button, or being allowed to make life or death decisions. Remembe rthis: “We came, we saw, he died” Libya. Cackle. Cackle.

    • Replies: @Ace
    , @Christie
  14. KA says:

    “If “Operation Iraqi Freedom” may accurately be regarded as Wolfowitz’s War in its conception, then the aftermath of the war should be viewed as the Kissinger-Feith Occupation. It is the aftermath to the conquest, highlighted by the disastrous ukases delivered by Kissinger’s partner and frontman in Baghdad, Paul “Jerry” Bremer, which has effectively destroyed Iraq as a nation-state, brought about an internecine civil war, and created a quagmire for the United States military as well as a serious drain on the U.S. Treasury. The Democrats love to denounce this phase of the conflict, the occupation, but without naming names, aside from Bush and Cheney. Kissinger’s invisible hand in the undertaking was completely unknown until Woodward blew Kissinger’s cover. But most everyone on Capital Hill, every casual Washington intenditore, and every member of the American foreign policy community knew that Wolfowitz and Feith were the point men in charge of Iraq.”

    Please share this article by using the link below. When you cut and paste an article, Taki’s Magazine misses out on traffic, and our writers don’t get paid for their work. Email [email protected] to buy additional rights.

    • Replies: @RonaldB
    , @Ace
  15. edNels [AKA "geoshmoe"] says:

    it is difficult to sort out from the sarcastic…ironic…etc. etc. please learn to make plain… and say what you mean… I think the 9/11 was an inside hoax, and the buildings were imploded… with the expertice, that cost millions to do… look for the guys who run that game… La what’s its… (French I think..). they own that buness… a good business it is too!!

  16. RonaldB says:

    Here is a different account of Odigo, which totally discounts the assertion that Odigo specifically warned anybody, Isreali or other, about the 9/11 attacks. At most, two employees, in Israel not New York, received something vague.

    As far as your assertions that the physical evidence precluded the damage by the planes: I’m not a physicist myself, but if your evidence is so compelling, surely some physics or engineering experts would have picked it up and publicized it. Further, the plane that hit the Pentagon did a lot of damage: do you claim the Israelis sabotaged the Pentagon as well?

    As far as a collaboration between Saudi Arabia and Israel to destroy the WTC: it simply doesn’t make sense. The attack on Iraq by George W. Bush was totally unjustified and unprovoked. So, why would Israel destroy the WTC using a group based in Afghanistan, using mostly people from Saudi Arabia, so George Bush would attack Iraq, which had nothing whatsoever to do with the 9/11 attack? This would imply that Bush was in on the planning. And if you say he was, why was he so paralyzed when he first heard of the attack?

    I’m afraid Occam’s Razor provides the best explanation: the hijackers traveled to the US, trained, and organized their mission, aided by the politically-correct directives from the Bush administration to not insult Muslims by examining their actions. Some of the Saudis knew about and aided the hijackers, acting as Muslims. Once the attack took place, the Saudis, pulling together behind the rogue but connected members of the royal family who aided the hijackers, called in all their many favors to George Bush to allow their members to fly home after gentle questioning by the FBI.

    Subsequently, Bush being both belligerent and not terribly bright, was talked into invading Iraq by his neo-con advisers and Dick Cheney, whose best public action was to leave Halliburton after nearly driving it into the ground, and then did the same for the US.

    • Replies: @Mulegino1
    , @KA
    , @annamaria
  17. Wally says: • Website

    The government’s laughable & impossible 9/11 conspiracy theory is what drives the US foreign policy.

    – The US govt. cannot change laws of physics.

    – It’s an established scientific fact that military grade nano-thermite was used in the 9/11 attack.

    – ‘9/11’ has been an immensely profitable scam for various players in the US and Israel.

    – ‘9/11’ provides excuses for our disastrous & mass murdering foreign policy.

    – ‘9/11’ provides excuses for the theft of our constitutional rights.

    – ‘9/11’ provides excuses for the enormous increase of government power.

    Follow the money.
    Who benefits?

    What Science Says About the Destruction of World Trade Center Buildings 1, 2, and 7

  18. Wally says: • Website

    Ultimately parasites end up killing their host before jumping onto another.

  19. Wally says: • Website
    @exiled off mainstreet


    Wait until the conventions end, then the fur will fly.

    We haven’t seen nothin’ yet.

  20. Rehmat says:

    Hillary Clinton couldn’t have spied for Putin unless she was told by her Israeli Zionist handlers and American Jewish Lobby.

    “From the man who married her grandmother to the man who married her daughter, from working room full of bar mitzvah guests on behalf of her husband’s political career to heading major pro-Israel events during her own, Hillary Rodham Clinton’s journey has never wandered far from Jews,” Ron Kampeas, The Jewish Daily Forward, June 24, 2015….

    • Replies: @Sherman
  21. @RonaldB

    “I fail to see where Israel’s interests lie in a weakened, fragmented, or bankrupt US. ”

    You’ve likewise probably never heard of divide and conquer, are not aware of what happened to the czar, and have little appreciation for the ethology of parasites to name just a few deficits in your spheres of awareness.

    • Replies: @RonaldB
  22. Anonymous [AKA "steven johnson"] says:

    Secretary of State Clinton was using a private email server primarily to protect government policy from public knowledge, especially via FOIA. There isn’t the slightest evidence that she was somehow conducting somebody else’s foreign policy. The security services knew that she was using a private server when she was Secretary of State, it’s in the IP address/URL/tagline of the emails! They didn’t have a problem then, they knew why it was being done that way. They don’t really have a problem now, they just pretend because they (and likely their current master Obama,) don’t really support Hilary Clinton. They may try to give the election to Trump by a well-timed indictment. Or they may just plan to impeach her. But this lame attempt to criticize her from the right is premised on the integrity of the intelligence community!

  23. Mulegino1 says:

    Many physicists do question the official narrative. However, like any other government-mainstream media produced propaganda, questioning it can be hazardous to one’s career.

    The so called hijackers were “legends” who acted to create an official cover story; there is no way that these student pilots were going to take unwieldy commercial airliners and perform miracles of aviation (including the physically impossible Pentagon strike) which experienced pilots with “time in type” are unable to duplicate in professional flight simulators.

    I may be mistaken, but I believe that there was one Israeli victim on 9/11, a person who happened to be in the vicinity coincidentally.

  24. epebble says:

    And don’t forget Trump’s third wife is from formerly communist Slovenia. Twenty years back, she couldn’t have walked near White House!

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  25. KA says:

    “A growing number of U.S. lawmakers and Arab allies, particularly Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, are pressing the White House to pull its support for Mr. Maliki. Some of them are pushing for change in exchange for providing their help in stabilizing Iraq, say U.S. and Arab diplomats.” (U.S. Signals Iraq’s Maliki Should Go, Wall Street Journal)

    This is the crux of what is going on behind the scenes. Barack Obama and his lieutenants are twisting al Maliki ‘s arm to force him out of office. That’s what the Thursday press conference was all about. Obama identified the group called the Isis as terrorists, acknowledged that they posed a grave danger to the government, and then breezily opined that he would not lift a finger to help. Why? Why is Obama so eager to blow up suspected terrorists in Yemen, Pakistan and Afghanistan and yet unwilling to do so in Iraq? Could it be that Obama is not really committed to fighting terrorists at all, that the terror-ruse is just a fig leaf for much grander plans, like global domination?

    Chaos and terror are the two headed hydra that the West have been using on ME.

    Why something is something can be a relentless exercise in pedagogy to reach the mind of the killer but to reach the mind of the killer who kills for the sake of killing or for the sake of third party or just to produce more knives for the killings so that more firearms bullets and bombs could be ordered,can be challenging and elusive because these are not well known variants of psychopathy .

    I don’t believe Israel blew up WTC. But the jury is still out to apportion the blames to all parties .
    Inability to reap the dividend of an illicit action is not the argument against the charge of criminal behaviors . That goes for Al Qida and goes for Israel as well. But there is less a Plan B . The plan B embraces the weakened Balkanized statelets to be the second best to the original idea of total control that Britsh French Zionist planned in 1917

    Despite decade old oppression ,sabotage,and exploitation America never tried to divide Japan,Phillipine Haiti,Cuba,Central America, Brazil ,Columbia or Congo or S Africa . Why America is so insistent on breaking up Syria , Iraq ,Libya ? Someone is telling America to do it .

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  26. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountian"] says:

    Architects and engineers for 9/11 Truth is a crackpot organization that gets weirder by the year. The head of the organization is now hanging out with the Nation of Islam. One of the Engineers from this organization…a phd in structural engineering…is now ranting about how the Bush Administration used satellites to beam rays down on the TT to knock them down

    It’ all crackpottery sewage “science. For the Truthers….you are either a 9/11 Truther True Believer or you are part of the Bush Family Great Conspiracy.

    We are suppose to ignore all the 15 years of painstaking rebuttal of every claim of the 9/11 nutters that one can easily find on the internet on You Tube.

    9/11 was a massive indictment of post-1965 Immigration Policy.

    9/11 Truthers are playing the same corrupt game as corrupt federal…state..and county prosecutors do:build tiny bits of evidence into a weird framework and make it sound plausible into a guilty verdict that puts thousands of innocent Americans into jail because they were defended by a low budget legal aid layer.

    The Bush Family is most definitely guilty of very serious war crimes and Treason:The Iraq War and flooding the US with legal immigrant Muslims and Chinese H1-LB visa legal immigrant technology-military spies for China…but they are not guilty of orchestrating 9/11…I mean we are talking about a Family whose favorite reading material is “250 Fart Jokes” by Arty Farty!!!!!!!!!!

    The 9/11 Truthers are a nutty-treasonous cabal that wants to flood Native Born White American Living and Breeding Space with high fertility-highly racialized legal immigrant young muslim breeding pairs….9/11 Truthers are as treasonous as the Bush Family!!!!

  27. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The reason That Hillary Clinton is going to office because of violations of State Department procedures and guidelines regarding handling of official correspondences and her outright lies on her use of her own private e-mail server for official state business, including the handling of highly classified material in violation of Federal Records laws, as well as her hiding official documents from the Freedom of Information Act and concocting her own system exempt from the official oversight which all other government official accept.
    This is what us rulers need .

  28. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Re: 9/11, it’s interesting to note what members of the 9/11 Commission had to say after they’d filed their report (For hyperlinks, views of members of Congress, and much more see the source document).


    The co-chairs of the 9/11 Commission (Thomas Keane and Lee Hamilton) said that the CIA (and likely the White House) “obstructed our investigation”.

    The co-chairs of the 9/11 Commission also said that the 9/11 Commissioners knew that military officials misrepresented the facts to the Commission, and the Commission considered recommending criminal charges for such false statements, yet didn’t bother to tell the American people (free subscription required).

    Indeed, the co-chairs of the Commission now admit that the Commission largely operated based upon political considerations.

    9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says “I don’t believe for a minute we got everything right”, that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, that the 9/11 debate should continue, and that the 9/11 Commission report was only “the first draft” of history.

    9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that “There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn’t have access . . . .”

    9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said “We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting”

    Former 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: “It is a national scandal”; “This investigation is now compromised”; and “One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up”.

    9/11 Commissioner John Lehman said that “We purposely put together a staff that had – in a way – conflicts of interest”.

    The Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) who led the 9/11 staff’s inquiry, said “I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years…. This is not spin. This is not true.”

    • Replies: @Orville H. Larson
  29. Sherman says:

    Hey Homer

    Did you know Hillary’s daughter married a Jew?

    It’s a good think she didn’t marry a Muslim. Chelsea would look silly walking around in a burqa!


    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    , @Rehmat
    , @Art
  30. bunga says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Take your medicines now. Your stupidity is mind boggling only worse than your vaunted racial superiority ( this can be a ruse .Are you trying to propel America to more wars against China and against Muslim countries? America wont benefit from it)

  31. Immigrant from former USSR [AKA "Florida Resident"] says:

    Hello, rezaie.
    The first (out of two) sentence of you comment contains 82 words,
    one comma in the middle and one period at the end.
    Do you expect somebody to digest it?
    In the second sentence,
    This is what us rulers need
    did you mean
    This is what US rulers need
    This is what us, rulers, need ?

  32. biz says:

    One thng is for sure – it takes a lot of balls to come out against Israel and Hillary Clinton at

  33. David says:

    I lived in Honduras throughout the whole time of the Mel Zelaya drama. Petras’s characterization is mostly false in my view.

    Clinton’s correspondence with the Honduran armed forces and brutal oligarchs led to the military coup against the elected President Zelaya, its violent aftermath and the phony election of a pliable puppet. Given the government-death squad campaign against Honduran civil society activists, Clinton would certainly want to cover up her direct role in organizing the coup.

    Name one “brutal oligarch” that operated in Honduras in 2008 and 9. Name ten if you can. Death squads? Rampant crime and official stupidity, incompetence and corruption, yes. Death squads, that’s dramatic fiction.

    If you’re going to call it a coup, I suppose mentioning that a unanimous supreme court took the side of the Golpistas would be in order. You might add that the army is Honduras’s most trusted public institution for a reason.

    But to me, the “coup” looked more like a coup being scotched in the egg. There was a lot of mindless “leveler” property damage and individual level street violence but there was no organized state violence against anyone outside of the drug trade.

  34. joe webb says:

    old lefties are not capable of satire. This article is wacky.

    Joe Webb

  35. Immigrant from former USSR [AKA "Florida Resident"] says:

    I have never seen or heard about the case with more than two per person.
    Did you imply large collective of male authors behind this article ?
    Or may be some unusual transgender cases ?

  36. @epebble

    “And don’t forget Trump’s third wife is from formerly communist Slovenia. Twenty years back, she couldn’t have walked near White House.”

    Twenty years ago Bill Clinton was in the White House … I’d be surprised if she wasn’t actually invited in if in the vicinity.

  37. @Sherman

    “Chelsea would look silly walking around in a burqa!”

    That’s the one style that would actually work with her natural charms.

  38. What are the Constitutional ramifications of a President pardoning her- or him-self (or should that be ‘Xe-self?)?

  39. bondo says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    you might find this link with photosinteresting?

    sure looks like a 757 dont it?

    think it was the same plane that took down wtc7, the 3rd tower.

    continued onto dc.

    if you look carefully, you will see one of the hijacker’s passport in pristine condition.

    so good he can use it to return home.

    • Replies: @CanSpeccy
  40. bondo says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    you might find this link with photosinteresting?

    sure looks like a 757 dont it?

    think it was the same plane that took down wtc7, the 3rd tower.

    continued onto dc.

    if you look carefully, you will see one of the hijacker’s passport in pristine condition.

    so good he can use it to return home.

  41. annamaria says:

    Your account misses the widely known fact that the Middle East had been targeted by Yinon plan long before 9/11
    Here is the US General Wesley Clark: “Wars Were Planned – Seven Countries In Five Years”
    Here is an article on Yinon Plan:

  42. @Connecticut Famer

    The Clintons could teach the Mafia.

  43. bunga says:

    from—Huffington Post by an ex M-6 agent

    ” the point of intersection between liberal interventionism and neoconservatism. This intersection is the subject of a May 16 report from the Center for a New American Security, which was drawn up by a bipartisan task force of 10 senior members of the U.S. foreign policy establishment and augmented by six dinner discussions with invited experts.

    The CNAS report states

    “[The United States should adopt a comprehensive strategy, employing an appropriate mix of military, economic and diplomatic resources, to undermine and defeat Iran’s hegemonic ambitions in the Greater Middle East. Whether in Lebanon, Yemen, Syria or Bahrain, Tehran’s advances and longer-term ambitions should be regarded as a threat to stability that it is in the U.S. interest to counter and deter.

    The next administration must make abundantly clear that it has no interest in pursuing an off-shore balancing strategy, such as the ‘new equilibrium’ some have suggested, which envisages a significant U.S. military drawdown from the region. On the contrary, the Persian Gulf should be deemed a region of vital interest to the security of the United States. As such, U.S. military forces in the region should be sufficient to ensure the security of Gulf allies and the Strait of Hormuz against potential Iranian aggression. At the same time, Gulf allies should have access to sufficient defense articles and services to deter Tehran even if U.S. forces are not present or immediately available to assist.

    We also reject Iran’s attempt to blame others for regional tensions it is aggravating, as well as its public campaign to demonize the government of Saudi Arabia.]”

  44. Mulegino1 says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Simple, rudimentary Newtonian physics such as the Third Law, prove you wrong; the Third Law states that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. There is no difference between a hundred or so ton ductile, aluminum and mostly hollow moving cylinder striking a one hundred thousand or so ton rigid skyscraper consisting mostly of structural steel and concrete, and the same moving structure striking the airliner.

    A commercial airliner – in this case, allegedly a Boeing 767 colliding with WTC 2’s massive structural steel perimeter columns and concrete floor pans, would be shredded into shards and most, if not all of the debris would fall to the street below the point of impact. The plane could not and would not – in the real world – penetrate into the building, nor would it damage any of the massive core columns.

    Ballistics also proves you wrong. In order to penetrate 1/2″ of structural steel, an armor piercing round, say a 7.62 x 54 r is up to the job. Compare the structure of a Boeing 767 (hollow aluminum tube, ductile and partially hollow wings, hardened, but light, titanium engines the tail, an extremely soft nose (capable of being destroyed by colliding with a bird in flight), landing gear and the tail and rudders, to the 7.62 x 54r armor piercing round: hardened alloy nose, tungsten jacket, and a solid steel core.

    Whatever the Bush family’s motivation, they still cannot circumvent the laws of physics.

  45. CanSpeccy says: • Website

    Fascinating pictures. The wings must have evaporated before impact. See, not the slightest mark on the wall either side of the entry hole. And there’s no wing debri outside either. Definitely a case of spontaneous evaporation.

  46. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    Why don’t you contact the MIT department of structural engineering and ask to give a presentation of your ideas at one of their graduate seminars.

    Truther science is unpublishable scientific sewage….and that’s all there is to it.

    The 9/11 Truther cabal is a treasonous cabal that agitates for flooding the US with millions of legal immigrant Muslims. This is exactly what David Griffith the Truther theologian argued for in his book. You are a bunch of sickos!!!!!!!!!!!

    9/11 was completely avoidable…as was the Fort Hood massacre…and the Chattanooga massacre.

  47. Art says:

    Israel also would have an interest in building settlements or apartments on disputed lands. This should by rights be treated as an internal affair by Israel, with almost no US involvement.

    with almost no US involvement. – what a total evil lie – everything the Jews do to the Palestinians reflects badly on America.

    This offspring of Mordecai is going to get people killed – together with the words of other hasbara, blood will flow. We know that the Jews are not done killing.

    Here is the Jew friendly story of Mordecai and Purim, the highest holiday of the Jew:

    The short story is that, Esther a Jewish princess in Persia turned the Kings head with her feminine wiles and became queen. She then had a Persian potentate hanged that opposed the Jew tribes. Mordecai a Jew strongman replaced the hanged potentate and murdered 75,000 Persians. He did it, not because it was necessary to maintain power – but show to the other power centers in Persia, who was boss. Esther and Mordecai controlled the king. They set into motion the idea that the way to Jew power was deception and killing. We live with that notion today in America – it controls us.

    Today Esther is AIPAC and the US president is the Persian king. And Netanyahu is Mordecai maintaining leverage and power over presidents. Esther and Mordecai – AIPAC and Netanyahu and RonaldB.

    • Replies: @dahoit
    , @RonaldB
  48. dahoit says:

    All one can say to your spiel is that the Zionists are crazy idiots to go around giving the finger to the world and expect kisses in return.Of course it makes no sense to civilized humans,but to Zion its all about divide and conquer,divide and rule.

    • Replies: @RonaldB
  49. dahoit says:

    And its a holiday.In fact.most of their holidays celebrate others misfortune.Plagues and drought and insects devouring sustenance all wished for their enemies.
    The story of Moses,taken in and saved by pharaoh,and later on he turns on Egypt.Typical 5th columnist.sheesh.
    And the story of the Golden Calf.yeah,like they listened to Moses,hahahah….Lip service.( is all they’ll ever get from me.EC)

  50. Rehmat says:

    Hi Bibi – Did you know Joe Biden’s son and daughters are married to Zionist Jews but he told his in-laws that American had no problem with a nuclear Iran. It’s his children newly found tribe that is pushing Americans to die for the Zionist entity.

    Did you father The alarmist knew that Jewish women wear bikinis to get rapped so they can cry “antisemitism”.

    • Replies: @Avery
  51. Mulegino1 says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Because I don’t need the MIT department of structural engineering to know that a mostly hollow, thin skinned aluminum and fiber glass cylinder which can be damaged by colliding with birds in flight and be virtually torn to shreds by collisions with heavy vehicles (such as a fuel truck) or broken apart by landing softly – and at relatively low speed – on a calm ocean surface cannot possibly survive a collision with perimeter core columns made of structural steel and concrete floor pans.

    In other words, I don’t need to consult “experts” when common sense, experience, and simple rules of physics will suffice. A world in which common sense needed to be validated by consulting with an ever shrinking elite of authoritative “experts” would quickly grind to a halt.

    This has nothing to do with U.S. Immigration Policy, except insofar as the 1965 Immigration Act was perhaps the greatest disaster to befall the United States in its history; without the Act, there likely would have been no Muslim “hijackers” to cast the blame on, and the real culprits would have been more easily exposed.

  52. dahoit says:

    The nadir of POTUS candidates in history,a career f*ck up,a bubbleheaded bobblehead senile traitor,and its gonna have be to up to Trump to call out all her serial transgressions and screw ups,because the ziomedia won’t.
    Simply amazing shes gotten this far with her campaign,with all her baggage.
    The Stepford woman candidate.

    • Agree: Ace
  53. Immigrant from former USSR [AKA "Florida Resident"] says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    There is no such thing as “MIT department of structural engineering”.
    You do not know what you are taking about.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  54. TG says:

    Kudos! Well said!

    I have always believed that all this focus on the ‘technical’ aspects of Clinton’s illegal email setup was a smokescreen to distract us from the real issue: not that she was hiding information, but what was she hiding?

    Both Clintons are the ultimate grifters, who cheerfully sell out the national interest for personal gain.

    Our only hope: perhaps there are some of our elites who still have some standards, and who, while hardly patriots in the traditional sense, would choke at the idea of someone as extremely corrupt as Hillary Clinton in power. If only for selfish reasons: if made chief executive, Hillary Clinton WILL punish her enemies and reward her friends – and not all of her enemies are weak. That has to be the only reason this investigation has not been quashed and quietly censored from the public.

    My only disagreement: no, I don’t think that Hillary will be a target for blackmail. Our society is too corrupt for that. Heck, she and Obama have ALLIED THE UNITED STATES WITH AL QAEDA and there is nary a peep of outrage. So regardless of what she might have done in secret, if it all gets made public it will likely make no difference.

  55. Sam Shama says:

    Looking at the comments and the crazy article here makes me laugh out loud. thanks for a really good laugh guys. The fact is Israel (which includes Judea and Samaria and Har Golan) belongs to US, the Israelites, the people chosen by the G’d : of the Jewish people, the people of Christ and the people of Mohammed. DO YOU UNDERSTAND? Ask any real Christian or Muslim and they will tell you the same. Only stupid “secular Jews” think otherwise.

    We came back to the land after millennia, to find it barely tended to, mostly empty of civilization and occupied by some Amalekites. We repossessed it and built it into the modern country it is now. We did it just as promised by G’D and none of you have even an infinitesimally small power to change that (don’t make me laugh). It is so much bigger than you can imagine, your daily rants can even get to fathom its barest corner, that you are no more than a single celled amoeba beholding the human life form!!!!

    There is nothing you can do. It is as simple as that. Look at people in the USA, the real Christians, they know it and the support for Israel keeps climbing! They understand that it is the WILL of our G’D and accepting it is the path to their salvation. No politics necessary. The day you idiots get on board with the program, will be the day you will find peace in your heart.

  56. Art says:

    Did you know Hillary’s daughter married a Jew?

    Hey Sherm,

    The guy is a real loser – he lost big money for some big people. Goldman Sachs had to come to the rescue.

    That whole frigging family is up to their eyebrows in Goldman Sachs favors.

    Yours – Art

    p.s. You sound better today, you must have gotten to the Golan for a whiff of some fresh Arab blood. That perks a Jew right up.

    p.s. When was the last time you saw a real in the flesh killing of a Palestinian?

    p.s. Ya – I know – “too long ago.”

  57. Avery says:

    {Did you father The alarmist knew that Jewish women wear bikinis to get rapped so they can cry “antisemitism”.}

    “Jewish women wear bikinis to get rapped (raped)”

    You filthy, IslamoFascist swine pig.
    May you and your ISIS cannibal buddies drown in a pool of pig blood.

  58. @KA

    The perpetrators of 9/11 had to have extended and private access to the towers in order to expertly rig the charges. There was a total power shutdown for the first time ever just prior so who had the means to order such? Ask yourself what company was in charge of security and who is behind that company?

    Who had the means to control the crime scene and order the shipment of all debris to China as scrap without a proper independent investigation.

    Who had the power to instal Phil at the very top of the investigation and effect a cover up?

    The Saudis were involved in a minor manner so they could later serve as patsies, Lee Harvey Oswalds with suntans.

    • Replies: @Ace
  59. @War for Blair Mountain

    Number 1 crackpot on unz using the word crackpot to describe others is comedic gold, thanks.

  60. @Anonymous

    Is it too late to ask for a refund on your “education”? Seems like you’d have very good grounds for such.

  61. Art says:
    @Sam Shama

    The fact is Israel (which includes Judea and Samaria and Har Golan) belongs to US,(Jews)

    Israel Habayit Shelany – you and your Jew tribe are lairs, thief’s, and a murders – what you are doing to the Palestinians is evil. You are destroying the whole ME – you and Israel are a curse. You will know the righteous.

    This g’d of yours is bull sh*t – you are delusional – there is no god of the Jews – there is only a God of the universe.

    Change your ways Jew.

  62. @War for Blair Mountain

    Have you considered doing stand-up comedy? Granted most comedian are intelligent if a bit disturbed but I do know talent when I see it and your’s appears to be effortless.

    • Replies: @bondo
  63. bondo says:

    groovy occupies a cubicle and gets paid to spout.

    maybe a jew?

    dont read him that closely.

  64. annamaria says:
    @Sam Shama

    “We did it just as promised by G’D…”

    There are respectful voices that strongly contradict your claim:
    “The so-called “State of Israel” is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the People of Israel…”

    “Rabbi Shneur Kotler, the late dean of the largest yeshiva in the United States…: “The Satmar Rav proves in Vayoel Moshe that opposition to Zionism and non-participation in the state is the position that the Talmud and all Jewish legal authorities once held. On the contrary, our Agudah approach is a new approach: that in today’s environment, we have to commit a sin with good intentions and salvage whatever we can, choose the lesser of two evils and so on.”

  65. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Sam Shama

    You base alot on your imaginary sky god giving you undeserved entitlements….
    Which are accomplished by the murders and thefts done bu the cults followers

  66. Truth says:

    All the world’s a stage, she’s an Actor as are The Donna, Barry, Boy George and the rest of them;

    The closing credits are playing, guys, this is not a Marvel picture, go home.

  67. Sam Shama says:

    “Rabbi Shneur Kotler, the late dean of the largest yeshiva in the United States…: “The Satmar Rav “

    Satmars are the truly deluded and parasitic. Did you know they treat their women like slaves? So their voices are nothing like “respectful”. Just idiotic. The matter is very simple. It is the land of the true recipients of the Torah. Now, we are fine with some of the Palestinians living on our lands, but they have to respect and obey the civil laws (Halacha does not apply to them).

    “Israel Habayit Shelany – you and your Jew tribe are lairs, thief’s, and a murders – what you are doing to the Palestinians is evil. You are destroying the whole ME – you and Israel are a curse. You will know the righteous.

    This g’d of yours is bull sh*t – you are delusional – there is no god of the Jews – there is only a God of the universe.

    Change your ways Jew.”

    It is a bit difficult to understand your error prone writing, but I think I get your general point. We are in fact building the ME, certainly giving the others a model to follow. Israel is a strong, democratic modern land with the highest regard for life. But we will not spare anyone that desires to take our lives. That would be misguided protestant thought. The TRUE CHRISTIANS understand this. We need to be rid of the misguided secular “jews”, (they will without a doubt become True Jews in the near future)

    There is no need for you to struggle so much with your own confusion, as you will see that all world leaders will come to our side as is preordained. The next President of the U.S. whoever it is, will be the greatest friend to Israel and the true Christians will be rewarded.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  68. RonaldB says:
    @Jacques Sheete

    It beggars the mind to think that Israel, a country of 8 million and an ocean away,wants to conquer the US. I simply do not take that assertion seriously. Israel is not an amoeba.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  69. RonaldB says:

    As far as your explanation of Bremer’s actions in Iraq, which were obviously extremely destructive even without knowing the background: I can’t say whether your assertions are true or not, but they certainly sound plausible and provide an explanation for the disastrous US policies concerning Iraq. I have read biographies of Runsfeld, and the assertion that he refused to intervene to salvage Iraq is entirely plausible. Rumsfeld was one of the worst Secretaries of Defense in US history, which matched him perfectly with W Bush, one of the worst Presidents.

  70. RonaldB says:

    I’m afraid your extreme anti-Semitism precludes the possibility of rational discussion.

    Let me point out gently that the story of Purim is hardly a credible template for discussing current political affairs and Israel.

    I also fail to see where Israeli actions reflect on the US. This being an imperfect world, Israel, like almost every other country, is going to have territorial actions that are unjust to individuals. If you want to protest those actions, have at it. There are many organizations in Israel, populated by Jews, that do just that. But, I think to consider Israel evil and outside the pale is to make a far more harsh judgment on Israel than on other countries.

    My bottom line is that it is in the US interest to have multiple, independent, strong states in the Middle East, especially Israel. US policy recently has been devastating, not only to the US, but to the Middle Eastern inhabitants. It’s immoral for a country to take actions killing and injuring people, if the country is not fighting for its life. Letting them kill each other is a different story, as long as you do not set up the situation knowingly. I’m inclining to the opinion that the embargo on Iraq while Hussein was still ruler was immoral; it killed Iraqis and was marginally, if that, effective for suppressing Iraqi military capability. I actually liked the policy during the Clinton administration of tactically suppressing Iraqi attempts to assert military initiatives. It cost the lives of one or two servicemen a year, in real combat, but nothing on the scale of almost 5,000 killed in the invasion and its aftermath.

    • Replies: @Art
  71. RonaldB says:

    “giving the finger to the world…”

    If by giving the finger to the world, you mean defiance of the UN, I’m heartily in favor of that. The largest organization in the UN is the OIC, a consortium of 56 Muslim countries whose purpose is to institute sharia law in every country in the world. Now, THAT’s conquering and ruling.

    As far as Zionism, Israel has 8 million people, Jews, Muslim Arabs, Christian Arabs, even Ba’hai. It would be physically impossible for Israelis to even walk over all the territory in the Middle East, let alone conquer it.

    I like debate on how supportive the US should be towards Israel. The US has its own interests, and by no means should it backup Israeli actions the way, say, Britain backed up the refusal of Poland to concede to German demands in 1939, with a Carte Blanche. And, the US should pursue its own policy decisions, rather than Israeli. For example, the US should never have been involved in the disastrous attempts to dislodge the Assad government in Syria. I don’t know if Israel pushed that policy, or if it came from our own rabid neocons, but in either case, it never should have been implemented.

    But, Israel is one of the strongest states in the Middle East, and it is definitely in the interests of the US for Israel to remain strong with strong borders. But, that emphatically does not mean to follow the policy of Israel, rather than our own.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
  72. annamaria says:
    @Sam Shama

    “But we will not spare anyone that desires to take our lives… We need to be rid of the misguided secular “jews”… and the true Christians will be rewarded.”
    Why these words sound like a quote from “Mein Kampf?” Never again, indeed.

    “Israel is a strong, democratic modern land.”
    This is your opinion and it contradicts to the facts on the ground. The modern state of Israel is thoroughly percolated by the former Soviets, the progeny of the Bolshevik commissars. Exhibit one is the racist Avigdor Lieberman of uncertain ethnic origin but of very certain lust for power; he proclaims again and again that he does not want to “spare anyone” among the native population for their desire to live on a land of their predecessors

  73. bondo says:

    [Unless you henceforth use proper capitalization, punctuation, and reasonable grammar, you can expect all your future comments to be summarily trashed.]

    • Replies: @David
    , @bondo
  74. woodNfish says:

    The executive leadership now faces the problem of how to deal with a traitor, who may be the Democratic Party nominee for US President, without undermining the US quest for global power. How does the executive leadership and intelligence agencies back a foreign spy for president, who has been deeply compromised and can be blackmailed?

    Very simply; we execute her for treason. Execute Bill Clinton too. He gave hard drives of nuclear secrets to the Chinese for campaign bribes.

  75. David says:

    I really appreciate this stance. Very poor orthography seems disrespectful.

    If you believe in clear thinking, in order, and in perpetuating your culture, you should demonstrate it by keeping English English.

  76. @War for Blair Mountain

    I want all known Muslims excluded from settlement in our country (no permanent residency or citizenship or land ownership, ever).

    Same for anyone coming from a country that has a substantial Muslim population (India, Nigeria) or a Muslim majority (Indonesia, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, UAE, all the STANS, Albania, “Kosovo”).

    Any Muslim to whom we have foolishly granted permanent residency should have it revoked. All noncitizen Muslims should be deported ASAP (well compensated for any realty they own here), and we pay their airfare back home).

    Now am I allowed to question the government’s account of 9/11?

  77. bondo says:

    In plainer words, you don’t like my comments.

  78. @RonaldB

    Why is it in the interest of Americans for Israel to be strong, to have well guarded borders, or to exist at all? It makes no difference to me, my family and friends, or my nation.

    Israel is a tiny country in terms of population and land mass and natural resources, with a laughably inflated sense of its importance in economic, cultural, or military terms. It should not play any significant role in U.S. geopolitical strategy, and it’s not an ally or friend to be trusted.

  79. @RadicalCenter

    ” . . . It should not play any significant role in U.S. geopolitical strategy, and it’s not an ally or friend to be trusted.”

    You’ve got a gift for understatement!

  80. @CanSpeccy

    Thanks for the information!

    Never trust a U.S. Government “investigation.” It could fuck up a wet dream.

  81. @RonaldB

    It beggars your mind, you mean. There are many others that do recognise that actuality.

    That you are honest and frank about your own limitations is refreshing however.

  82. RonaldB says:

    “Why is it in the interest of Americans for Israel to be strong…?”

    Very good question. It puts the discussion of Israel on a rational basis.

    There are actually many reasons, all of them rational, and all of them directly concerning the interests of the US.

    In the first place, Israel being a cauldron of high-IQ Jews, Israel generates a lot of technology which is of great benefit to the US. The .jpg format was developed in Israel. Israel pioneered the construction of fences which will be so important in maintaining our borders if Trump is elected. Israel has developed a lot of military technology used by the US military.

    In the second place, Israel has a survival stake in the region, not just the commercial or vanity interest that the US neocons take. Do you recall Israel destroyed the Iraqi nuclear bomb development of Iraq under Hussein? Would you feel comfortable with a nuclear-armed Iraq? Also, Israel is a main reason that Iran is taking it easy on the bomb, apart from the toothless treaty. Iran is aware there is a red line that can’t be crossed, since the Iranians made it clear that they would be delighted to use the bomb on Israel.

    More generally, Israel by maintaining strong borders, actually promotes stability…or would, if the US had not explicitly dissolved the governments and social structures of Iraq, Libya, and Syria. The US attempt to institute an Islamist government in Egypt was fortunately aborted by the Egyptian military. A region is generally most stable with strong, independent states, although the states themselves may not support US policies. Do you really think US interests would not be hurt if if the land mass of Israel were overrun by a mass of Islamists, “Palestinians”, Lebanese Muslims, Jordanians, etc, all of whom would be fighting each other and putting a hand out for US aid.

    And finally, Israel is an outpost where the success of Western, non-Muslim values, including the value of the individual, are plainly displayed. Israel is a successful, prosperous country with free people. I’d say this advertisement for the values we wish to keep in our own country more than justify the efforts of the US to continue to veto the constant attempts at the UN to condemn and boycott Israel. Without diplomatic protection, Israel will suffer the same fate as South Africa: a prosperous, relatively humane society trying to deal with the masses of illiterate, violent blacks in their territory. By the way, where do you think South Africa stashed its nukes to keep them out of the hands of the African National Congress types when the governments were changing? (hint: Israel).

  83. War for Blair Mountain [AKA "Groovy Battle for Blair Mountain"] says:

    I never said you couldn’t. My point is that with an itty bit of googling one can find very substantial point by point refutations of the 9/11 Truthers on the collapse of the TT. There is 15 years of this critique.

    Muslims legal immigrants are being imported into the US for one reason and one reason only:to vote Whitey into a violently persecuted racial minority every 4 years. Despite this, these Donald Trump says the TEMPORARY BAN was only a suggestion.

    • Replies: @annamaria
  84. annamaria says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Here are the facts showing that the US have been cooperating with Al Qaida (remember the War on Terror, some $5 trillion, at least, and many lives wasted, and counting?)

    Again, what the US are doing in the Middle East? Why the seven ME countries had been targeted, ruined, and produced millions and millions of desperate refugees?

    Maybe it has something to do with Yinon plan?
    and MIC?

  85. alexander says:

    Hi Anna,

    ….” Some 5 trillion, at least”…….Hmmm. Maybe .

    But consider this…

    Our national debt has exploded from 5.7 trillion in 1999 to 21 trillion dollars today…..this represents an “overspending spree” of roughly 15 trillion dollars.

    Once you take into account 3 trillion or so for the Banking Fraud Fiasco<

    that leaves roughly 12 trillion in overspending for our War Fraud Fiasco.

    So between all the War Fraud( "yellow cake" from Niger , "Saddams anthrax"..WMD's.etc..etc ) and all the banking fraud (triple AAA rating of worthless debt…citigroup OFF BOOK accounting…etc..etc )

    It looks like our trustworthy , earnest ,and dedicated "stewards" at the top have really ripped the taxpayer a new one .

    with Leaders like these…..Anna……who needs TERRORISTS !? !

  86. bunga says:

    Western, non-Muslim values, including the value of the individual, are plainly displayed. Israel is a successful, prosperous country with free people”

    1 Spitting on Christian clerics
    2 Burning Bible (NT)
    3 Throwing Cross out and trampling on it
    4 Burning Koran
    5 Destroying a cemetery that dates back to 8 th century
    6Uprroting Olive trees
    7 Destroying the habitat,displacing the owners and usurping the ownership
    8 Bragging by the minister about killing Palestinian
    9 Destroying university
    10 Destroying hospital
    11 Killing patients
    12 Preventing the visit of the American-Palestinian to West Bank
    13 Killing the children in indiscriminate public shelling

    In International forum – forgery of passports , killing targets in foreign land ( what it would be like if a Hamas or Iranian agent killed a Israeli target ? ) , asking for America to maintain sanctions on Iran while other countries are engaging in business and trades with Iran ,thereby hurting American economy , supplying false information to US to get US into wars against Syria,Iran,Iraq and even Libya ,

    About the scientific and technological progress- the less is said the better it is- Israel stole information,blueprints, and details to start it’s own version of military,software and even pharmaceuticals. It also forced US to open American market to its inferior products in 80s and opened NATO’s procurement fields to sale its (copyright violated ) products . Ben Gurion knew it was not high IQ but getting a leg up by getting the finished products illegally and then copying it and building on it .He said so to his minions in 1946

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
    • Replies: @RonaldB
  87. annamaria says:

    “More generally, Israel by maintaining strong borders, actually promotes stability…or would…”
    Fantastic statement. A lot of feelings but very little facts. The most interesting part of this statement is the suggestion that Israel is “maintaining strong borders” now. Do you have a map of Israel’ current borders?
    “The borders have changed from time to time with developments in Israel’s military and diplomatic situation.”
    Here is more on Israel’s “maintaing strong borders:”
    Creates a clear impression of an aggressor and predator.

    As for the “Israel generates a lot of technology,” this phenomenon is the direct result of immigration of the highly educated Soviet Jews to Israel. The strength of the Soviet educational system is still under-appreciated, but the number of the former Soviets on both professorial and research positions in the US and EU should give you a pose. Mind that the second generation of the former Soviets abroad has been heavily influenced by their well-educated parents and elders.

    • Replies: @RonaldB
  88. RobinG says:

    USS Liberty Remembered

    On Wednesday, June 8, the USS Liberty Veterans Association held a Memorial Service at Arlington National Cemetery. This was the 49th anniversary of Israel’s deliberate and prolonged attack on the US Navy intelligence vessel. Covered up for years by our own government, this attack resulted in 34 Americans killed and 174 wounded.

    Dean Rusk, secretary of state at the time, later wrote: “I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. Their sustained attack to disable and sink Liberty precluded an assault by accident or some trigger-happy local commander. Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn’t believe them then, and I don’t believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous.”

    George Ball, under-secretary of state, summed it up: “American leaders did not have the courage to punish Israel for the blatant murder of its citizens.”

    Meanwhile, our current Israel-firsters increasingly suppress our free speech and other fundamental rights:
    Gov. Cuomo — forgetting the Liberty
    “What we have…is an executive order to punish anyone who dares not to do business with Israel, along with a promise by New York’s Sen. Chuck Schumer to introduce comparable legislation on the national level”

    One goal of USS Liberty survivors is that June 8 be designated “USS Liberty Remembrance Day”. For more information on the Liberty, see here… dex.html#.V1TrfzPD9jo

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
  89. Max Payne says:

    This is what I don’t understand about US politics. If Hillary does become president won’t her past treason (which is what it is) come back to haunt her? Wouldn’t she be impeached if she does something someone doesn’t like and decides to make a stink about her insecure email server?

    I’m just saying. What benefit could she gain from the presidency if certain factions can hang that over her head…. does becoming president automatically nullify treason?

  90. annamaria says:

    And here is the recent AIPAC/Israeli contribution to the US democracy:
    “Gov. Cuomo’s Executive Order No. 157 … establishes “a list of institutions and companies that… participate in boycott, divestment, or sanctions activity targeting Israel, either directly or through a parent or subsidiary.
    “When a chief executive unilaterally signs an executive order declaring that the state blacklist and divest from companies and organizations with a particular political view, we usually call that state repression,” she [JVP Executive Director Rebecca Vilkomerson] said.

    “…there was bills going through the Legislature, and there’s four days from the end of the legislative session, and they were really stalled in committee because there was very strong opposition from over a hundred organizations around the state to these bills. And so it did feel like Governor Cuomo was trying to do an end run around the legislative process.”
    Robert Freedman: “…the worst element to BDS, in my view, is their call for the so-called right of return of Palestinian refugees. What that would mean—some 5 million refugees and their descendants—that’s the end of Israel as the nation-state of the Jews.”
    Crystal clear: it is OK for Israel to settle the so-called Jewish people of uncertain ethnicity (like the swarm of the former Soviets that are predominantly the economic migrants) on the natives’ land in violation of international law, but it is anathema to let “other” people to return to the land of their grandfathers and grandmothers. Racism, Avigdor Lieberman style.

    Rebecca Wilkomerson: “….first of all, I would remind Robert and everybody that the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions has demands according to international law.”

    • Replies: @RonaldB
  91. Max Payne says:

    Would you feel comfortable with a nuclear-armed Iraq?

    More comfortable than a nuclear-armed Israel, that’s for sure.

  92. Hibernian says:
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    Structural Engineering is a sub-discipline of Civil Engineering.

  93. Art says:

    But, I think to consider Israel evil and outside the pale is to make a far more harsh judgment on Israel than on other countries.


    The facts are 100% for sure – that Israel is responsible for much of the evil around the Semitic world. Its treatment of the Palestinians is ungodly. It keeps in power evil Semitic regimes.

    Supporting Israel is evil – PERIOD.


  94. Art says:

    But it is Clinton’s long-term, large-scale commitment to Israel that goes far beyond her public speeches of loyalty and fealty to the Jewish state. Hillary Clinton’s entire political career has been intimately dependent on Zionist money, Zionist mass media propaganda and Zionist Democratic Party operations.

    Hillary Clinton’s Project For A New American Century

    Here we go again. Earlier this year, some were surprised to see Project For The New American Century (PNAC) co-founder and longtime DC fixture Robert Kagan endorse former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for president.

    Democrat / Republican – it makes no difference – The Zionist Jew evil rolls on and on.

    • Replies: @Art
  95. Art says:

    My apologies the author of this article is:

    By Dan Wright | ShadowProof | June 9, 2016

  96. Ace says:

    Seems right up there with phrenology and the four humors, friend.

  97. Ace says:

    Do you recall a WSJ oped piece by, I think, either Feith or Wolfowitz that pointed out that if you read Bush’s speeches prior to our troops reaching Baghdad they, the speeches, were all about WMDs but afterwards his emphasis switched to nation building, nation building, nation building?

    A huge change in strategy, needless to say, and one that had “quagmire” written all over it. And that was not presented to the voters.

    I’ve not been able to find that piece and would like to. Maybe the author was someone else entirely….

    • Replies: @KA
  98. Immigrant from former USSR [AKA "Florida Resident"] says:

    Dear Hibernian:
    Thank you for your valid comment.
    I was not talking about discipline, and neither did Mountain.
    I still make the statement that administrative unit
    MIT department of structural engineering” does not exist.


    • Replies: @Hibernian
  99. annamaria says:
    @Sam Shama

    “…the crazy article …”

    Here are the words of an Israeli patriot who happened to be also an intelligent person:
    The former head of the Israeli intelligence service, Efraim Halevy: …one has to admit that since we are in control of the West Bank and since there is no political movement to move the situation in the West Bank to somewhere else and to give it a different either status or whatever you like to call it, I think one should expect unfortunately that there will be people who think that they have to rise up and who have to fight against it.”

    Picture Warsaw Ghetto and such….

  100. RonaldB says:

    Well, Annamarina,

    Here we have a solid disagreement between us. I fully support the freedom of anyone to say anything they wish. If you want to economically hurt someone you don’t like, it’s certainly legitimate to hurt you economically in return. When Macy’s cancelled Trump’s line of clothing in response to his stance on immigration, I cancelled my account with Macy’s and haven’t been inside since. In cancelling the account, I stressed to them that I was cancelling the account not because of their political stance, which they had every right to, but their attempt to punish Trump economically for his stance.

    So, I think it’s ok to boycott the boycotters. I have a problem in doing it with government funds, since a government is perfectly capable of creating ruinously high taxes, rebating only to politically suitable companies. But, that’s a different problem.

    As you kindly pointed out, one of the BDS demands is a full return of the so-called Palestinian refugees to within Israels borders. These people hate Israel. The Muslims in particular have a religious reason to hate the Israelis, but the Palestinian Christians (those that are left after the persecutions by the Palestinian Muslims) also hate Israel. So, you’re advocating the destruction of Israel in a very (very) slightly disguised form.

    The Palestinians had a lot more prosperity, and a lot more discretion to take jobs in Israel, before they began firebombing and blowing up Israelis. They still officially honor suicide bombers who take out stores full of civilians. If you think Israel should give these people free access to Israel, I guess we have very different viewpoints.

    By the way, I never said Israel was a reliable friend of the US. I said it is in the US interest for Israel to exist as a strong country with defendable borders. There’s a huge difference. I also never said that the US should allow Israel to dictate US policy, particularly with respect to places like Syria.

  101. RonaldB says:

    Israel has fought multiple wars, beginning with the first attack by its Arab neighbors when Israel declared itself a state in 1948. The attacks actually began in 1947.

    So, in the course of multiple wars, Israel has shifted its borders. I fail to see anything earthshaking about that. The US did precisely the same thing in the 19th century.

    As for the technology you attribute to Soviet emigres, so what? The point is, their immigration to Israel and their living circumstances generated a lot of very useful technology. It certainly wasn’t coming from Russia, where you say they were educated.

    This may seem a bit anti-Semitic on my part, but I’m perfectly happy for the Soviet Jews to be safe and productive in Israel, rather than the US. US Jews voted 70% for Obama the last election. If we had millions more Jews in the country, Trump would have a far more difficult time winning the Presidential election. Quite frankly, I’m not sure where people stand who hate Israel so passionately, but for me, I think the election of Trump is vital for the US to retain its culture and identity.

    • Replies: @KA
  102. RonaldB says:

    ” It also forced US to open American market to its inferior products in 80s and opened NATO’s procurement fields to sale its (copyright violated ) products ….”

    Haha. Sorry for laughing, but how is Israel going to force the US to do anything it doesn’t want to?

    As for the abuses you cited, including assaults against Christians…yes, they occurred and were perpetrated in most cases by ultra-Orthodox outlier Jews who are incidentally also parasitical on Israel, since many of them don’t work, but are subsidized Yeshiva students. I have no objection to publicizing some of these abusive practices. But, they’re also illegal in Israel, just like systematic attacks by blacks on whites is illegal in the US. So, are you going to demand that the US open its borders to Mexico (even more than it does already) as a penance?

    Israel does carry out aspects of a dirty, covert war against Palestinian, Iranian and other Muslim agents. Did you sleep through the murder of the Israel Olympic athletes or the bombing of Jewish synagogues and cultural centers in South America and Europe? Did you turn off the news when the fighters in Gaza sent rockets into Israeli towns and settlements? Do you think you can fine-tune a war to avoid all civilian casualties? If so, you ought be be very pleased with the rules of engagement foisted on US troops in Afghanistan.

    • Replies: @Art
    , @arrow
    , @KA
  103. Hibernian says:
    @Immigrant from former USSR

    My point is that you’re quibbling. Almost all engineering schools have a Department of Civil Engineering which includes Structural Engineering. I haven’t done the research on MIT, this is a blog, not Graduate School.

  104. Art says:

    Haha. Sorry for laughing, but how is Israel going to force the US to do anything it doesn’t want to?

    Really – another Jew lie – another misdirection – a switch – a clever misstatement.

    Israel does not have power over the US government – American Jews do.

    They are in mass, disloyal traitors – end of story.

    “By deception we make war” – Mossad.

    • Replies: @KA
  105. RonaldB says:

    “Israel stole information,blueprints, and details to start it’s own version of military,software and even pharmaceuticals. It also forced US to open American market to its inferior products in 80s and opened NATO’s procurement fields ”

    I simply took the quote. If you have a problem with it, Art, take it up with the person who wrote it, not me.

    Also, your rabid anti-Semitism precludes a rational discussion.

    • Replies: @RonaldB
    , @Art
  106. arrow says:

    To judge Israel is like judging the rationale of a planned preemptive aggression between 2 set of people who had no argument even let alone warring relation before.
    This is why you bring up 1976 Olympic attack to deal with post Oslo situation .

    I will help you new and 1976 situation by retracing the narrative of the war that started
    in 1917 . Something happened in 1920 because something happened in 1917 something happen in 1936 because something happened in 1933 and the correlative points keep on showing up all over the maps whose geography and history were destroyed by Israel, point to on going chain of reactions where the weak react and lose while Israel provokes and gains.

    So for you to understand 1976 ,you have to know these few facts
    1 ” in the summer of 1948,5 yrs after Lebanon’s birth 130000 Palestinian came into Lebanon. 1954 Ben Guiron asked Moshe Sharett it would be in Israel’s interest to provoke a civil war between Christians and Muslims . 1955 May 16 he urged Israel to provoke Lebanese Muslim to attack Lebanese Christian ” only a psychopath of utmost kind not seen in natural human being can do this . 1958 there was civil war in Lebanon.
    2 in that war of 1967 made famous by psychopaths straddling the worlds of media ,motion pictures politics and academia by portraying the war as an aggression by Arab where the defenseless Israel routed combined Arab attack, some half a million Palestinian fled to Lebanon.
    1968 Israel bombed Beirut . Lebanon did not attack .

    I can cite more like the hijacking of civilian airlines by Israel – a first – in the history of the aviation and in the war , never before a plane was hijacked , and a first by a state ,nation,religion . No one state did it again .

    I can cite the proposal by Syria to absorb Palestinian Arabs in exchange for securing its borders a with Israel in 56 but that was ignored by Israel.

    Israel never wanted and dont want an equitable ,just solution. Just go ahead and read the shocking diary excerpts of Moshe Sharett . And today try to understand the indirect and measured comments by retired IDF or ex PM or the mayor of Israeli cities – they all prove one simple truth that is peace and justice are anathema to Israel.
    Israel has figured out that instead of just being a parasite,it will try to become most virulent militarized parasites .
    Gaza rocket and Israeli agreesion actually fully embody the nature of this saga in a nutshell.
    Gaza belongs to Palestinian. Israel doesn’t own it to give away. After capturing ,it gave away but then it continued blockade Turing it into prison or a large concentration camp.
    Now their minions bring up the rocket attack as an argument against peace,negotiations and against BDS.

  107. KA says:

    Israeli policy hasn’t changed since the days of Weizman,Sliver,Ben Guiron,Hertzl,and Jabotinsky.
    Yes ,they differed and they fought among themselves .

    Mafia members do that all time .

    “Israeli minister wants to annex half of West Bank and kick out the Palestinians
    JERUSALEM — A top Israeli minister said he wants the government to take complete control of more than half of the West Bank and remove the Palestinian residents of the territory.

    While traveling with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on a state visit to Russia on Tuesday, Agriculture Minister Uri Ariel told the Times of Israel that the world should forget about a Palestinian state.

    Palestinian violence is just a footnote ,a desperate attempt for justice and respect.

    • Replies: @RonaldB
  108. KA says:

    Sorry. I don’t recall. But you are correct . It has been covered by
    and written about it in the chapter Ch 12 Democracy for the Middle East
    By Stephen Sniegoski

    The Transparent Cabal: The Neoconservative Agenda, War in the Middle East, and the National Interest of Israel

    • Replies: @Ace
  109. KA says:

    Arab & Israel for Beginners by Ron David

    Israel in the Mind of America by Peter Grose
    The Passionate Attachment by Ball and Ball
    America and the Founding of Israel An Investigation of Morality of America’s role by
    John W Mulhall

    Israeli Peace and Palestinian Justice by Thomas L Are

    – In all of these article and books,you will New York Times reports from 1947, American and Britisg Radio monitoring ,declassified documents from US National Archive would provide you with the information that Israel provoked and fought from 1947 with more firepower ,more army personnel,and better equipped military gadgets knowing fully well what would provoke a reaction from local Arab residents within 1947 Israel and what would provoke surrounding nations.

    • Replies: @RonaldB
  110. Ace says:

    Thank you kindly.

  111. Ace says:

    The two men who were in charge of the security of the two towers were men of great integrity. They would not have permitted access of strangers for any nefarious purpose.

    • Replies: @NoseytheDuke
  112. RonaldB says:


    Apparently you didn’t read the comments to the article you cited:

    In the comments, Robert Werdine gave a point-by-point refutation of the article, including citation of parts of the New York Times articles that the author, Munayyer, ignored. Werdine concluded:

    What the evidence shows is that the Nabka was sired in the rejection, the lack of realism, and the still-persisting allergy to compromise that made the first Arab-Israeli war inevitable. The war resulted from the Arabs’ rejection of the partition, and the refugee crisis resulted from the war. The chain of causation here is simply undeniable: there would have been no refugee crisis if there had been no war.

    Having rejected the path of diplomacy and compromise, the Arabs sought the arbitration of force; it was to be a war of annihilation. Ever since the announcement of the partition in November 1947, they sought to destroy the nascent Jewish state, failed, suffered catastrophe and defeat in the process, and, as usual, blamed everyone but themselves. The Nabka was indeed needlessly self-inflicted by them, and the refugees and their descendants have paid a horrific price for their unpardonable folly. They still do. –

    Remember: this is in the comments to the very article you cited.

    • Replies: @KA
    , @alexander
  113. RonaldB says:

    Ariel’s comments come as Netanyahu, the leader of the governing coalition, has been stressing that he supports a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

    Ariel is an important minister in the cabinet, but decidedly a minority voice. He does not represent the position of the Israeli government. So, what he says is not in any conceivable way a justification for Palestinian violence.

    Minors have been recruited to attack Israeli targets, both military and civilian, especially during the Second Intifada from 2000 to 2005. This deliberate involvement of children in armed conflict has been condemned by International human rights organizations…

    • Replies: @KA
    , @KA
    , @KA
    , @KA
    , @KA
    , @KA
    , @KA
    , @KA
  114. KA says:

    I have read those articles archived from NYT .i have read all 4 of them ( I wish there accessible from mondoweiss now but they are there and there ware ways to find it )
    The critisim is not valid or relevant as far as the NYT ‘s accounts are concerned. NYT’s accounts showed Israel provoked the attack by pushing refugee out and it showed Israel had more soldiers 4 times more and had more firepowers

    The critical comment you cite are an attempt to say Arabs could have chosen a different path . Yes they could have,they could have rolled over on their bellies and let the refugee pour in continuously until whole current Gaza and WB were emptied . They did not.

    Yes Arab rejected a partition that was illegally obtained by Zionists .

    About the partition! Let me tell you one fact – that freaking partition was illegal,done illegally,by bribes,by threat,by forces and by rejecting the first result on the vote and by rejecting the Arab plan . Arab plan was rejected because the Powers that mattered then did not have time

    Again few more references -if you want to know the illegal bribing and threat by Jewish official in US administration to foreign dignitaries-
    -in addition to the above

    TRUMAN by D . McCollugh

    The Brandeis Frankfirter Connection by Murphy

  115. KA says:

    This was how back then
    ” Fortunately for Brandeis his conversation withBritish Foreign Secretary Balfour helped turn the tide. Brandeis accused the then-current British administration in Palestine of having a distinctive pro-Arab bias and demanded reform of this position. To the Justine’s pleasure Balfour’s reaction had indeed been impressive as described in this report by Jacob DeHaas:
    …This speedy action following as it does the appointment of Colonel Minertzhagen to replace Colonel Layton of Palestine,gives us unbounded satisfaction ”

    Brandeis was able to achieve a great deal at these meetings[ held in London] . In fact he even persuaded Pres Wilson to ignore King -Crane Commission which called as Frankfurter feared for restriction on immigration and for a united Syria”

    Page 63

    The Secret Political Activities of Two Supreme Court Justices.
    Bruce Allen Murphy

    Now how is it done ? Ask Hewitt who on CNN castigated Trump for saying that he would be neutral on I -P conflict,
    Ask Howrad Dean who was ridiculed and lectured for suggesting that he would be even handed on Israel Arab conflicts

    and now check with the democratic version of these gated intellectual superPAC who will allow only one kind of voice devoted to one kind of view and for one kind of tribalism for one nation not attached to US by any treaty or deal other than the promises of donations to get elected to do the job that those PNAC FDD. IP AEI and current version favored by Democrats want to be implemented –


  116. Art says:

    Also, your rabid anti-Semitism precludes a rational discussion.


    Not so – my disgust with US Jews, who are traitors to my country, does not alter the fact of their evil actions.

    Facts come first – then reaction to the facts.

    Coercion is coercion – it is un-human not to be disgusted.

    You can not steal my rational humanity – go away!


    • Replies: @RonaldB
  117. alexander says:

    Were it only the case that this were true , RonaldB

    The Nakba (or catastrophe) was born out of a certainty the fledgling Jewish state needed a substantial Jewish demographic majority to function as both a democracy AND as a state for the Jewish people.

    Were Israel not to expel 750,000 Palestinians, at the dawn of its creation, the demographics of its country would have favored an overwhelming Arab majority within its borders, not a Jewish one.

    Hence the new “democratic” system (were it legitimate)would have catered to the Palestinian majority votes, and Israels first prime minister, as well the bulk of its Knesset members, when elected, might well have been Palestinian, NOT Jewish.

    Furthermore,for the first fifty years of its existence, the state of Israel and its supporters around the world ,engaged in the most massive cover-up known to mankind, as to the “existence” of the Nakba .

    Its very reality was to be permanently “expunged” from all historic memory.

    Israel was a “land without a people for a people without a land”. There were no Palestinians living there….End of discussion.

    The reasons for “saying so” are quite self-evident.

    How could the Jewish people stake a claim to the high moral ground when vilifying the heinous EVIL of the Holocaust which befell them in Nazi Germany….while having committed the SELF SAME SIN against the Palestinians to birth their state ?

    How could they ?

    They could not.

    So even the most remote suggestion that Palestinians were “ethnically cleansed” from Israel when it was created, was greeted with the most concerted and potent attacks of “antisemitism” and “Blood libel” against its claimants, imaginable.

    This went on for decades.

    Even today ,when the Nakba “wall of denial” has been breached by the overwhelming scholarship of many earnest historians, the “coddling” of the narrative proceeds apace.

    Many Jewish historians who now grudgingly accept the reality of the Nakba,as ACTUALLY HAVING HAPPENED quickly begin to fashion multiple rationales and alternative narratives to justify it.

    The most common is to actually LEAPFROG over the “ethnic cleansing” of the NAZI HOLOCAUST, as analogous to the ethnic cleansing of the NAKBA…and refer back to the “westward expansion” and manifest destiny of early American settlers.

    Jews CANNOT be like the Nazi’s….no, no, no..that is just too TABOO a thing to say……But they CAN be like early American colonialists in their purging of the native Americans…., that’s okay…..that is just dandy.

    So even our most LIBERAL websites, embrace the narrative of COLONIALISM to explain JEWISH LAND GRABBING…and furiously reject the more pertinent, up to date, LEBENSRAUM, it being the core tenet of the worlds most hated evil…NAZISM.

    What, for the record,Ronald B, is the “distinction” between early American colonialism and Nazi lebensraum?

    When the early American pioneers moved eastward to build our nation,200 years ago,subsequently warring with and “conquering” the Indians, it was not a SUPREME INTERNATIONAL CRIME to do so.

    In fact , it was not a “crime” at all.

    The world , back then, was dog eat dog,…raw, brutal, and ,for the most part, wholly lawless.

    Whereas the NAKBA occurred AFTER the Holocaust, after WWII, and after the ENTIRE civilized world collectively ratified into law the criminality of all ethnic cleansing and all land grabbing.

    Therein lies the distinction, RonaldB, and the reason for the massive , unrelenting “cover -up”.

    Napoleon once said that “treason” is a question of “dates”.

    So too is the CRIMINALITY of genocide, ethnic cleansing and territorial expansion.

    Thus the behavior of Israel is, in so many ways, quite anachronistic, primitive,and hypocritical, most ironically harking back to the very pre-Holocaust age its most ardent supporters sought to abolish.

    • Replies: @alexander
    , @RonaldB
  118. RonaldB says:


    Read my post. I did not fault you for not liking Jews. I said your rabid anti-Semitism precluded a rational discussion. Why did I say that? Because I accurately replied to a comment that said Israel forced the US. You said that what I said was a Jewish lie.

    So, you called me a Jewish liar for accurately quoting a comment critical of Israel.

    My conclusion is that your dislike of Jews gets in the way of your actually reading the comments. I have no personal quarrel with the many people on the thread deeply critical of Israel or Jews. I have tried to respectfully debate them.

    If you had said “it is the Jewish influence, rather than the Israel influence, that forced the US” I would not have had a personal problem with that, but would have attempted to answer it rationally. Instead, you said my comment was a “Jewish lie”. You see the difference, why I said your dislike precluded a rational discussion?

    • Replies: @Art
  119. alexander says:

    Just to clarify paragraph 13, for the record, (on the American pioneer settlers)…it was our “Westward not” Eastward”expansion that ensued.(of course we all know that, but I wanted to correct the type-0.)

  120. KA says:

    As the civilian death toll in Gaza continues to climb, the U.S. House of Representatives has introduced a symbolic resolution—backed by the powerful American Israel Public Affairs Committee—blaming Hamas for the bloodshed and condemning them for the alleged use of “human shields.” But critics say this effort is just another U.S. affirmation of support and impunity for Israel, despite the fact that Israel’s fighter jets, attack helicopters, drones, and soldiers are doing the killing.

    The U.S. Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation released a statement declaring, “The resolution of course fails to mention Israel’s well-documented use of Palestinians as human shields.

    The Israeli military has used Palestinian children to open bags it believed to be bomb-laden, held children in front of soldiers to prevent youth from throwing rocks, and forced children to enter homes believed to be rigged with explosives.”

    But Mike Coogan, Legislative Coordinator for the U.S. Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation, told Common Dreams: “It’s important to note that when Palestinians fled their homes in Gaza during Operation Cast Lead and went to UN shelters, Israel dropped white phosphorous on those shelters. As we have seen recently, at least two UN shelters have been bombed. There is no safe place to go in Gaza.”

    As of Monday afternoon, the resolution had 64 co-sponsors. The effort follows related resolutions backing Israel’s military onslaught, which passed unanimously in the House and Senate earlier this month with the strong backing of AIPAC.

    • Agree: Orville H. Larson
  121. KA says:

    The report accused both the Israel Defense Forces and the Palestinian militants of war crimes and possible crimes against humanity. It recommended that each side openly investigate its own conduct, and to bring the allegations to the International Criminal Court if they failed to do so.[3][4] The government of Israel rejected the report as prejudiced and full of errors, and also sharply rejected the charge that it had a policy of deliberately targeting civilians.[5] The militant Islamic group Hamas initially rejected some of the report’s findings,[6] but then urged world powers to embrace it.[7]

    On 1 April 2011, Goldstone retracted his claim that it was Israeli government policy to deliberately target citizens, saying “While the investigations published by the Israeli military and recognized in the U.N. committee’s report have established the validity of some incidents that we investigated in cases involving individual soldiers, they also indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy.”[14] On 14 April 2011 the three other coauthors of the United Nations (UN) fact-finding mission on the Gaza conflict of 2008–2009 Hina Jilani, Christine Chinkin and Desmond Travers released a joint statement criticizing Goldstone’s recantation of this aspect of the report. They all agreed that the report was valid and that Israel and Hamas had failed to investigate alleged war crimes satisfactorily.[15][16]

    Everybody knows how Goldstein was crucified by the Jewish community . He succumbed to the pressure

    Also this guy Howard Berman a Democrat lawmaker from CA started pushing for ouster of Christine Chinking because she called Israeli war as an act of aggression . UN Watch , a NGO latched itself to that accusation. It does what Campus watch does in US .

  122. KA says:

    In the 90s, Steve Rosen and AIPAC worked with Netanyahu to block Oslo peace process
    US Politics
    Philip Weiss on March 6, 2009 6 Comments

    Decrease Text Size
    Increase Text Size
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         

    Why is accused spy Steve Rosen leading the charge against Chas Freeman, Obama’s pick for the National Intelligence Council? Here’s a great piece in the New Jersey Jewish News yesterday by Douglas Bloomfield, a former AIPAC staffer, on what’s at stake in the Steve Rosen espionage case that the government might bring to trial in May:
    [In 2004] Soon after the FBI
    raided AIPAC offices, the organization launched a fund-raising campaign
    to defend against any charges, and the appeals for money didn’t stop
    when it fired the pair. Since the scandal broke in 2004, AIPAC’s
    fund-raising juggernaut has hauled in so much dough that one senior
    staffer told me that “it’s coming in faster than we know what to do
    with it.”

    JTA quoted tax records showing AIPAC raised $86 million in 2007,
    doubling 2003’s $43 million. Not all of that money was a result of the
    espionage case, but many millions were.

    In cutting loose the
    pair, AIPAC insisted it had no idea what they were doing. Not so, say
    insiders, former colleagues, sources close to the defense, and others
    familiar with the organization.

    One of the topics AIPAC won’t want discussed, say these sources, is how closely it coordinated with Benjamin Netanyahu in the 1990s, when he led the Israeli Likud opposition and later when he was prime minister, to impede the Oslo peace process being pressed by President Bill Clinton and Israeli Prime Ministers Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres.

    That could not only validate AIPAC’s critics, who accuse it of being a branch of the Likud, but also lead to an investigation of violations of the Foreign Agents Registration Act.

    they don’t want out is that even though they publicly sounded like they
    were supporting the Oslo process, they were working all the time to
    undermine it,” said a well-informed source.

    – See more at:

    — Yeah! Just like Netanyahu , AIPAC was supporting Oslo Peace process – a foundation for 2 state solution !

  123. KA says:

    Jackson Diehl in the Washington Post says John Kerry is conducting diplomacy between the parties by “fantasy. –
    They play along with the process to please Washington, or Moscow, while complaining to journalists like me that Kerry’s diplomacy is based on fantasy. Who can imagine Syrian President Bashar al-Assad placidly agreeing to step down? Or Netanyahu ceding East Jerusalem and the Jordan Valley to the Palestinians and their security forces? – See more at:

    2 Zvi Bar’el in Haaretz echoes Diehl, ….. Notice that Bar’el also blames the Israelis for the failu re —

    –“Why does the Obama administration insist on continuing to deal with the Israel-Palestinian conflict, of all things, where its chances of succeeding are less than the odds of winning the lottery? It seems the answer has to do with the paradox that says failure is success. An administration that is concerned about its future is careful of getting into conflict with an Israeli government, and that is all the more true of a right-wing Israeli government. It must settle for a show of willingness and determination to move the process forward, but only the process.

    As far as the U.S. is concerned, the process is simple — it has no risk, no potential of military intervention, no strategic threat that could lead to a regional war. Even the tiniest amount of progress, such as dismantling an illegal outpost, releasing prisoners or relief measures for commerce, can be taken as a great accomplishment. For the far-right that is running Israel, the “reevaluation” of American foreign policy is good news. All it has to do is act as if it is a partner in the peace process, as if it is anxious for the welfare of the talks with the Palestinians, as if it accepts the two-state solution. This is the art of horse-thieving that Israel is skilled in, and that the U.S. is also familiar with. That is how friends operate.”
    – See more at:

  124. KA says:

    Benjamin Netanyahu’s Latest Rejection Of A Palestinian State

    WASHINGTON — Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reaffirmed on Monday that he does not envision a two-state solution for Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories any time soon.

    During a parliamentary committee meeting, Netanyahu told members of the Knesset that he has no current plans to surrender control of the occupied West Bank to the Palestinians as part of a peace agreement. “At this time, we need to control all of the territory for the foreseeable future,” he told lawmakers, reported Haaretz.

    Netanyahu accused members of the opposition government, who have lobbied for renewed two-state solution negotiations, of indulging in an unrealistic fantasy

    By announcing his intention to retain control of the occupied Palestinian territories for the time being, Netanyahu is effectively fulfilling an election guarantee, in which he promised pro-settlement voters that there would be no Palestinian state if he remained prime minister. – see-

    • Replies: @RonaldB
  125. KA says:

    From Stephen Zunes in


    On July 25, Amnesty International reported that “Israeli forces have carried out attacks that have killed hundreds of civilians, using precision weaponry such as drone-fired missiles, as well as munitions such as artillery, which cannot be precisely targeted, on very densely populated residential areas.” Israeli forces “directly attacked thousands of homes,” including high-rise apartment blocks, killing whole families. Observing that civilians in the Gaza Strip had “nowhere to escape military operations by Israeli forces,” Amnesty provided ample evidence that Israeli forces were engaging in “indiscriminate attacks on urban areas using artillery and bombs.” In a particularly serious breach of international law, Amnesty further reported that “ambulances and medical personnel on their way to collect the wounded appear to have been deliberately targeted on several occasions, and hospitals have been destroyed by shelling from tanks and missiles.”

    The congressional reaction to reports like Amnesty International’s was swift.

    On July 29, the U.S. House of Representatives, with more than 100 co-sponsors from both parties, passed a resolution by unanimous consent insisting that the Israeli attacks were exclusively “focused on terrorist targets” and that Israel “goes to extraordinary lengths to target only terrorist actors.” Co-sponsors included such prominent Democrats as Alan Grayson (FL), Jared Polis (CO), Eric Swalwell (CA), Richard Neal (MA), Joseph Kennedy (MA), Tulsi Gabbard (HI), Jan Schakowsky (IL), Brad Sherman (CA), Elliot Engel (NY), and Debbie Wasserman-Schulz (FL). Two days later, Senate majority leader Harry Reid introduced a resolution, also pushed through by unanimous consent, claiming that “the Government of Israel has taken significant steps to protect civilians in Gaza” and that “Israel’s attacks have focused on terrorist targets.”

    These were just two in a series of similar bipartisan resolutions and public letters that went through Capitol Hill as part of a concerted campaign to discredit human rights groups, journalists, medical workers, UN officials, and any other eyewitness who discredited the Israeli government’s talking points.

    Amnesty International certainly wasn’t alone in implicating Israeli forces in war crimes. Human Rights Watch cited evidence of Israel “blatantly violating the laws of war designed to spare civilians,” including by attacking heavily populated neighborhoods, bombing UN-run schools, and shooting at fleeing civilians. The Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem challenged its government’s claims that it had “no intention of harming civilians,” noting that “after more than three weeks of lethal bombardments by Israel in the Gaza Strip which have killed hundreds of civilians and wiped out dozens of families, this claim has become meaningless.” UN officialsalso charged Israeli forces with engaging in serious violations of international law following a series of attacks against UN schools where Palestinians were seeking refuge, prompting a bipartisan letter signed by 149 House members to the UN secretary general insisting that “Israel practices the greatest caution trying to prevent civilian casualties.”

    These human rights groups and UN officials also strongly denounced Palestinian militants for firing rockets into civilian areas in Israel and for keeping armaments and soldiers in close proximity to civilian areas in Gaza, as well as for their refusal to accept several ceasefire proposals that could have ended the carnage earlier. Congress had no problem with that. By contrast, since Israel is considered an important strategic ally of the United States and a lucrative market for U.S. arms manufacturers, both major political parties made it a priority to lie and cover up for Israel’s war crimes

  126. KA says:

    The Human Shields Myth

    The Israeli government has repeatedly claimed that the large number of civilians killed by its forces were a result of Hamas using “human shields,” defined under international law as “Utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas, or military forces immune from military operation.”

    No eyewitnesses in the Gaza Strip during the war found any evidence of this, however. For example, in late July, New York Times reporters in Gaza noted, “There is no evidence that Hamas and other militants force civilians to stay in areas that are under attack.” Likewise, Jeremy Bowen of the BBC that he saw “no evidence” for “Israel’s accusation that Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields.” According to reporters from The Independent and The Guardian, it was a “myth” that Hamas forced civilians to stay in their neighborhoods during Israeli attacks. Contrary to accusations by members of Congress, the Gazans who failed to heed Israeli warnings to evacuate did so because areas Israel had declared safe were being attacked as well.


    Similarly, on July 25, Amnesty International noted that it had no evidence “that Palestinian civilians have been intentionally used by Hamas or Palestinian armed groups during the current hostilities to ‘shield’ specific locations or military personnel or equipment from Israeli attacks.” Preliminary investigations by the United Nations, Human Rights Watch, and other groups—while noting that Hamas had illegally engaged in hostilities in close proximity to populated areas and had stored weaponry in unoccupied homes and schools—found no evidence that Hamas had actually engaged in actions that met the widely accepted legal definition of using human shields.

    Again, the response in Congress was swift: In less than a week, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) pushed through a Senate resolution claiming that “Hamas intentionally uses civilians as human shields” and condemning the United Nations Human Rights Council for not saying so. Similarly, Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA)—who serves, ironically, as chair of the Senate Foreign Relations subcommittee focusing on human rights—drafted a letter to the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, signed by 34 of her colleagues, insisting that “Hamas is using Palestinian men, women, and children as human shields to deter Israeli attacks.” When I contacted them, neither senator’s office was able to provide any evidence backing their claims, nor did they explain how they were able to somehow locate information that journalists, UN officials, and human rights monitors in Gaza were unable to find.

    A House resolution went one step further, claiming that Hamas had “encouraged Palestinians to gather on the roofs of their homes to act as human shields.” Without any regard for the evidence, the resolution—also adopted by unanimous consent—put the House on record calling on “the international community to recognize and condemn Hamas’ breaches of international law through the use of human shields.” A letter signed by 149 members even insisted, in reference to rockets targeting Israel (and without any supporting evidence), that Hamas “publicly declares it the duty of every Palestinian to put his or her life on the line to protect them.”

    Protocol I of the Fourth Geneva Convention makes it clear that even if one party to a conflict is in fact shielding itself behind civilians, such a violation “shall not release the [other] Parties to the conflict from their legal obligations with respect to the civilian population and civilians.” In other words, even if Hamas actually had used civilians as shields, it would still have been a war crime for Israel to kill them. To use a domestic example: if bank robbers were holding tellers and customers hostage while shooting at the police, the police could not get away with killing the hostages along with the criminals. Indeed, the implications of such broad bipartisan support in Congress for such a concept are chilling, given that this rationale could be replicated by law enforcement officials here in the United States—particularly given the militarization of local police forces in the name of fighting terrorism.

    There is little question that these broadly supported bipartisan efforts were designed not just to defend Israel’s war on Gaza, but to discredit empirical investigations by human rights organizations overall. For example, one of the House resolutions passed this summer—in addition to making unsubstantiated claims about Hamas—a
    lso claimed that “throughout the summer of 2006 conflict between the State of Israel and the terrorist organization Hezbollah, Hezbollah forces utilized human shields in violation of international humanitarian law.”

    In reality, empirical investigations during and following the conflict by several reputable investigative bodies found absolutely no evidence supporting this charge. A detailed study by Human Rights Watch published at the end of the fighting in Lebanon found “no cases in which Hezbollah deliberately used civilians as shields to protect them from retaliatory IDF attack.” Similarly, Amnesty International, in a well-documented report of its own, observed that “While the presence of Hizbullah’s fighters and short-range weapons within civilian areas is not contested, this in itself is not conclusive evidence of intent to use civilians as ‘human shields’, any more than the presence of Israeli soldiers in a kibbutz is in itself evidence of the same war crime.” In addition, Amnesty reported that while Hezbollah did store weapons and fire from civilian areas, it was only long after most of the civilian population had been evacuated. Subsequent reports for the U.S. Army War College and elsewhere also failed to find any evidence for the charge, which was nonetheless repeated by the House resolution years later.

    In apparent anticipation of the U.S. bombing in Syria and Iraq, which would commence soon thereafter, the bipartisan House majority also went on record saying that Islamic State forces “typically use innocent civilians as human shields.” Following the logic from this and other resolutions supporting Israel’s attacks on Palestinian civilians in Gaza, this appears to have been a preemptive effort to exempt U.S. forces from any moral or legal culpability for the deaths of Syrian and Iraqi civilians caused by the imminent bombing of urban areas in those countries as well.

    From -Stephen Zunes , a Professor of Politics and International Studies at the University of San Francisco,

  127. KA says:

    Human Shield and Israel–

    IDF used Gaza civilians as ‘human shields’ during Gaza attack
    Daily Kos
    Feb 21, 2009 – Gazans: IDF used us as ‘human shields’ during offensive … Olmert has pledged to defend all members of the IDF accused of War Crimes during the Gaza Attack, now it … published a report in Common Dreams last Sunday:.

    Oct 19, 2007

    JERUSALEM (AFP) – Israel’s former military commander in the occupied West Bank has been reprimanded for using Palestinian civilians as human shields, the army said on Friday.

    Brigadier General Yair Golan was barred from promotion for nine months under the terms of the reprimand, it said.

    Golan admitted using Palestinians as human shields, which Israel’s supreme court banned two years ago following petitions from human rights groups, the army said.

    The reprimand follows an investigation by military police.

    In March, Israeli television broadcast footage of Israeli forces advancing behind a young male Palestinian civilian during a door-to-door search and arrest operation in Nablus.

    The Israeli human rights group B’Tselem charged that during the operation soldiers used a 15-year-old Palestinian boy, an 11-year-old girl and a 24-year-old man as human shields.-

    google search

  128. RonaldB says:


    I’ll be frank. In a war situation involving the US, I wouldn’t want the UN or world bodies nosing in and bringing criminal charges against individual soldiers who may or may not have killed wantonly or deliberately. All I can say is, if Hamas wants to avoid civilian casualties, it needs to stop digging tunnels and firing rockets into Israel. If I were making decisions in Israel, I would also not be very aggressive in charging individual soldiers. There’s no better way to make sure they are hesitant and conservative in fighting. Again, Hamas can avoid civilian casualties by not provoking Israel with rockets, tunnels, and terror probes.

    As far as Israel blocking the Oslo process and dragging its feet on the two-state solution: Israel has had to build a wall to prevent terrorists from the Palestinian territory from infiltrating and attacking Israel citizens. Would you want a full-fledged government supporting such measures right next to you?

    I frankly don’t want the US as a policeman watching every move made in the Middle East.

    Those people who think Israel is responsible for every Arab on Arab conflict in the Middle East are not going to change their mind.

    Israel is a separate country with its own interests and its own evil actors. I think the US ought to maintain its own interests separate from Israel, especially in the case of Israel spies in the US. I have to say, I think the disruptions done in the Middle East by the US, unfortunately, like in Iraq, Libya, and Syria far outweigh whatever damage was done by Israel. And, I’m still a US citizen and will defend the US against aggression.

  129. Art says:


    Go look at the original comment – here is the line in bold, that I responded too – is it not yours?

    Haha. Sorry for laughing, but how is Israel going to force the US to do anything it doesn’t want to?

    You are laughing at us – you say we are stupid for thinking that Israel can control America.

    That was dishonest of you, that was a patent lie – that was a misdirection of the facts. Truth AIPAC – truth ADL – truth a thousand plus Jew organizations are working to control America. Millions of Jews are working to halt our free speech.

    Why should we not dislike you?

    Fifty Americans are dead today because of you Jews – you brought your tribal fight to our shores.

    Go Away – leave us – we do not need you!


    p.s. Right now, Fox Jews is pumping fear and hate over and over – CNN is no better – look at what you Jews are doing to us.

    p.s. It is irrational not to dislike what Jews are doing to America.

    • Replies: @RonaldB
  130. RonaldB says:

    All I can do is refer you back to the comments in the reference to which you responded. The Arabs systematically and irresponsibly rejected the partition and took armed action against the Jews. It so happened the Jews were better armed, better trained and better organized.

    The charges that the Jews, by design, other than the marginal Irgun group, moved the entire Arab population out is not supported, although you can certainly bring up statements by then-marginal leaders like Begun which advocate such actions. Perhaps the best counter-evidence is that, in fact, Israel has a substantial Arab and Muslim population. If they carried out real ethnic cleansing, they would have gotten rid of all the Muslims. The Christian Arabs, by the way, are looking at the alternatives, and are becoming fervent Zionists, realizing which side of their bread is buttered.

    • Replies: @Art
  131. annamaria says:

    is not it ironic that history of the Lobby’ activity towards critics of zionism looks like mirror-image of Dreyfus Affair ( This time it is Jewish organization that takes a role of a scoundrel laboring against principled individuals.

    Mr. RonaldB writes nice smooth prose about Israel, but the horrendous truth is, the ongoing Middle Eastern wars cannot be separated from Eretz Israel Project and from the ziocon architects and inciters of the wars. It should hurt to be compared – justly – to the nazis. (Though considering the Kagans’ calculated support for Ukrainian neo-nazis, the banality of evil includes “means justify goal,” i.e. insensitivity to indecency). Israel maybe a successful state re technology and agriculture, but it is a complete failure ethically and morally.

  132. Art says:

    The charges that the Jews, by design, other than the marginal Irgun group, moved the entire Arab population out is not supported

    Thank you Jews – you did not kill or move everyone then. Thank you Thank you!

    p.s. When are you planning to finish the job?

    p.s. Only a fool thinks you not going to.

    p.s. How are you planning to help them?

    p.s. We know that you will.

  133. alexander says:


    your comment:

    The charges that the Jews, by design,other than the Irgun terrorist group,moved the entire Arab population out, is not supported…”

    It is neither supported, nor anywhere is it stated…..The 750,000, or so, Palestinians, forced from their homes during the Nakba, did not constitute the “entire” Arab population of Israel. …No one ever said said that it did.

    Israel allowed a percentage of Palestinians to remain within its borders, but this percentage had to become , by design, a substantive minority within a dominant Jewish majority.

    This was true then,…and it is equally true today…It is the very reason why the Palestinian refugees(and their descendants) are refused their Right of Return by Israel.

    Permitting their return would thoroughly upend the dominant Jewish demographic of the state..

    And it is precisely the numbers of Palestinians, which is the problem, not the “right” itself.

    If there was only ONE Palestinian refugee in the world, his return to Israel would be instantaneous.

  134. RonaldB says:


    I wasn’t personally critical of you for disliking Jews. I specifically said it was because your dislike of Jews affected your judgment so you couldn’t compose or evaluate a rational statement.

    Let me give an example.

    The original comment was:

    “Israel stole information,blueprints, and details to start it’s own version of military,software and even pharmaceuticals. It also forced US to open American market to its inferior products in 80s and opened NATO’s procurement fields ”

    I said

    Haha. Sorry for laughing, but how is Israel going to force the US to do anything it doesn’t want to?

    You said

    Really – another Jew lie – another misdirection – a switch – a clever misstatement.

    Israel does not have power over the US government – American Jews do.

    Now you say

    You are laughing at us – you say we are stupid for thinking that Israel can control America.

    To be fair, you also said, directly contradicting yourself:

    That was dishonest of you, that was a patent lie – that was a misdirection of the facts. Truth AIPAC – truth ADL – truth a thousand plus Jew organizations are working to control America. Millions of Jews are working to halt our free speech.

    I had said before:

    If you had said “it is the Jewish influence, rather than the Israel influence, that forced the US” I would not have had a personal problem with that, but would have attempted to answer it rationally. Instead, you said my comment was a “Jewish lie”. You see the difference, why I said your dislike precluded a rational discussion?

    I realize there are people who are on the thread who don’t like Israel or Jews. I engage them on a rational basis. However, you misread my quote and called me a name. Therefore, I stated you allowed your dislike of Jews to affect your judgement.

    • Replies: @KA
  135. KA says:

    ” realize there are people who are on the thread who don’t like Israel or Jews. I engage them on a rational basis. ”

    in 1947 Truman himself admitted in a memorandum to David Niles,”We could have settled the Palestinian thing if U.S politics had been kept out of it .Terror and [Rabbi Silver] Silver are the contributing causes of some,if not all,of our troubles ”

    Taking account of the activities of the United States in late 1947,Kermit Roosevelt bitterly concluded that
    The process by which Zionist Jews have been able to promote American support for the partition of Palestine demonstrate the vital need of a foreign policy based on national interests.

    page 22

    To secure a favorable General Assembly vote for such a plan ,President Harry Truman engaged in active lobbying for the Zionist’s cause . Eventually the votes of at least of Haiti and Philippines were secured by the unauthorized intervention of private American citizen
    -page 20

    The Passionate Attachment
    America’s involvement with Israel ,1947 to the present

    George W .Ball [who worked for Kennendy and Johnson administration, as undersecretary of State , was ambassador to UN, ]
    Douglas B.Ball

    • Replies: @RonaldB
  136. @Ace

    I said the security companies in charge, maybe the two men that you don’t mention had/have integrity. Whatever, there were a large number of “foreign”art students found to be squatting in vacant offices and one way or another, sensitive access was gained throughout the towers to install and wire the charges in order to facilitate controlled demolitions.

    Take a squint at how those security contracts were changed prior.

  137. RonaldB says:

    I think this thread is pretty much played out.

    I do appreciate a rational discussion of US interests and what kind of support for Israel, if any, serves US interests.

    I have read the Amazon reviews on The Passionate Attachment including the critical comments claiming that George Washington’s warning was misapplied. As I say, this thread is pretty much played out, so no use spending a lot of time on it here.

    • Replies: @Art
  138. Art says:

    Hey Jew – you happy – 50 dead Americans means more power to Israel – you must be ecstatic – there is going to be a big celebration at synagogue next week – lots of dancing – your miserable g’d answered your prayers.

    • Replies: @RonaldB
  139. Christie says:

    I couldn’t post the photo, but see if this URL works:


  140. RonaldB says:

    To Art:

    I can only repeat myself: your rabid anti-Semitism precludes any rational debate or discussion.

  141. Art says:

    I can only repeat myself: your rabid anti-Semitism precludes any rational debate or discussion.

    Paste it again RonaldB – show your sick victimhood again – over and over – poor poor you – poor Little Jew.


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