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Will Coronavirus be A Reality Check On Democracy Itself?
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[Adapted from the latest Radio Derb, now available exclusively on VDARE.com.]

It’s an ill wind that blows nobody any good, and the coronavirus panic has some winners. The stock of Zoom video-conferencing software has been soaring, notwithstanding some bad publicity about its security features, or lack of them.

Less well-publicized has been the bonanza for lawyers, with laid-off workers suing employers, businesses suing insurers, jailbirds and illegal aliens in detention suing to be released, travel firms, cruise lines, and airlines being sued by disgruntled vacationers, and so on. Do lawyers ever come badly out of anything?

Longer-term, out here on the Dissident Right, there’s been a vein of commentary to the effect that this is all going to work out well for the causes we care about. A key text here is Greg Johnson’s March 18th post at Counter-Currents, title “How Coronavirus Will Change the World.” It doesn’t summarize easily, but I’ll read off Greg’s main headings. Each one identifies a fact that, according to Greg, will be made more obvious by the current crisis and its aftermath.

Globalism is bad.

Democracy is bad. If that made you jump, I’m going to give Greg the benefit of the doubt and assume he’s in the Winston Churchill camp here: Democracy’s bad, but not as bad as the alternatives. More on this in just a minute.

Global “free trade” is bad.

Liberalism is bad

Diversity, multiculturalism, open borders, & anti-racism are bad.

Conservatism is bad.[Links added]

By “Conservatism” in that last one Greg means what we at VDARE.com call “Conservatism, Inc.”

That’s all good upbeat stuff, but I have my pessimistic doubts. Greg’s assuming that under pressure of a political and economic crisis, people in the generality will come to see reality more clearly—the reality, for example, that strictly-regulated national borders and ports of entry are essential to the common good.

I dunno, Greg. That particular aspect of reality has been obvious to me, and to a great many of us over here, for a long time, but the obviousness of it hasn’t worked its way through to political action.

Even under pressure of the current crisis, it hasn’t. Our government is still cheerfully bringing in tens of thousands of guest workers from abroad, even as the numbers of unemployed Americans rises through the stratosphere.

At his presser this Wednesday, President Trump told us that without foreign guest workers coming in to do agricultural work, actual quote from the President, “we’re not going to have farms.” Reporting on this, John Binder at Breitbart noted that, quote:

H-2A foreign visa workers make up only about ten percent of the total U.S. crop farm workforce.

The President’s remark illustrates an important counter to Greg Johnson’s optimism. We should not underestimate the determination on the part of our ruling class—even members of it, like Trump, with a reputation as mavericks—to keep the cheap-labor rackets going and to cling to their cherished catch-phrases—”jobs American won’t do,” “crops rotting in the fields,” “nation of immigrants,” and the rest—in defiance of any amount of reality.

Whether the American public, suffering Depression-era levels of unemployment, will let the ruling class and their tech-billionaire enablers keep their rackets going, is another question. It’s perfectly possible that we shall, though. I’ve always thought T.S. Eliot greatly overrated as a poet, but he wrote a very wise and true thing when he wrote that “Humankind cannot bear very much reality.”

That all said, I would like to add just one extended quote from Greg Johnson’s piece. It’s true, and it’s relevant to my next segment. Edited quote, from under the heading “Democracy is bad”:

Democracy encourages politicians to think only as far ahead as the next election. Since disasters happen only occasionally, every politician knows that they are unlikely to happen on his watch …

It is fashionable now to deride the “deep state” for being democratically unaccountable bureaucrats. But in a democracy, only a democratically unaccountable permanent bureaucracy can engage in long-range planning to secure the future against preventable evils.

China, by contrast, is not democratic at all, and despotism has it’s advantages (for the despots)in the age of Big Data.

On a global scale, one thing likely to change in a big way is our relationship with China.

In a big way, but not likely a good way. I bring some prejudice to this topic. I’ve been hating the Chinese Communist Party since I first got a close look at them nearly fifty years ago. They run a brutal, corrupt Leninist despotism.

Remember, to take a random recent example, their treatment of scholarly, peaceable dissident Liu Xiaobo, who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2010. Liu couldn’t go to Oslo to accept the prize because he was serving an eleven-year jail sentence. He got that sentence for publishing a document calling for political reform and a more open society.

So ChiCom power will collapse at last, like the old U.S.S.R. did, right? And the people of mainland China will enjoy open, consensual, constitutional government at last, as the people of Taiwan currently do. Right?

In my dreams. There are some structural instabilities in the system, to do with corruption, environmental degradation, demographics, and t he inevitable slowing of economic growth now that the low-hanging fruit has all been picked. As best I can judge, however, the ChiComs are good for another decade at least. They might even make it to the ChiCom centenary in 2049, although personally I’d bet a modest amount of money against that.

Tucker Carlson occasionally has Gordon Chang on his show as a guest, introducing him as the author of a book titled The Coming Collapse of China.

That always gets a smile out of me. I reviewed that book when it came out … back in August of 2001.

As horrible as it is for people who can think independently, though, oriental despotism has some advantages over free, open societies. In the age of Big Data, it may have some new advantages it never had before.

ORDER IT NOW

In the Asia Times, David Goldman is claiming that the Chinese are beating the virus with their all-encompassing electronic surveillance: Covid-19: Focus on what China did right, not wrong | Beijing stopped the epidemic by combining conventional measures with the application of digital technology by David P. Goldman April 3, 2020

The level of population surveillance the ChiComs are aiming for might very well prevent future pandemics. Personally, as a lover of liberty, I’d rather take my chances with the viruses.

John Derbyshire [email him] writes an incredible amount on all sorts of subjects for all kinds of outlets. (This no longer includes National Review, whose editors had some kind of tantrum and fired him.) He is the author of We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism and several other books. He has had two books published by VDARE.com com: FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT (also available in Kindle) and FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT II: ESSAYS 2013.

(Republished from VDare by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: China, Coronavirus, Globalism 
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  1. polistra says:

    “Democracy” doesn’t exist. “Laws” do not exist. “Constitutions” do not exist.

    Only force and blackmail exist.

    If you think any event “could risk damaging democracy”, you haven’t been paying the slightest bit of attention to reality.

    • Troll: Corvinus
  2. Sean says:

    Average age of white Americans is 58. I minorities it is under 30. The shock of hearing of the white death toll among family and friends plus it being epitomised in media obits of celebrities will elicit Dread Risk and result in whites forming a block, like quicksilver did in the old puzzle toys.

    Re “ChiCom” I think it was Max Aitken who insisted during WW2 that the enemy should be referred to as the ‘Germans’ not the ‘Nazis’. The Chinese are not going to get the 5G contract in Britain they thought was in the bag, I can tell you that. They lie every time there is an epidemic, did it with SARS and did it with COVID-19, which they initially covered up. They still haven’t released data that is vital for formulating a strategy for lockdown exit in the West. Russia is going to see the light too. China seemed unstoppable. Now they have something coming.

  3. “I’ve always thought T.S. Eliot greatly overrated as a poet, ”
    Disagree. TS Eliot was a great poet.
    Agree: US continues to suck in 1000’s of foreign workers. Immoral & insane.
    The “deep state” — wrong. The deep state is not just bureaucrats. Its also the intelligence, & military leaderships And above them all are the Oligarchs & their agents. Looked at that way the gap between a US rolling in Liberties & a China frozen in despotism is not quite as great as you think.

    • Agree: SafeNow
  4. Whether officially a democracy or not, any country with as big a beast of a national government as we have is NOT going to change just because the little people realize all of Greg Johnson’s points. That’s even most of them DO realize these points. Now, I personally would like to see changes based on all 6 of Johnson’s “facts”*, yes, including democracy.

    This country was not supposed to be a democracy. A Constitutional Republic is what our Founders created, hoping we could keep it for a long time. The first 150 years, arguably, were a good run. If we’d followed the Constitution, we wouldn’t have had the huge government we have now, meaning the little bit of government we’d have could actually respond to the wishes of regular Americans. That said, the preventable evil of this disease DOES come under that ideal governments purview, as pretty much the point of it, a common defense. Screening visitors for 14 days, stopping international travel completely, all that is a function even of our original idea of government.

    I’m quite a bit more pessimistic about this than you, as it’s not just that Greg Johnson’s 6 points won’t change a damn thing our Feral Government does, but the implementation of a higher degree of Socialism well be part of the aftermath of this infotainment panic-fest. Actually, I don’t need to predict this, as it’s been apparent for a month now. You force the economy to grind to a halt, and then you dole out (the grandchildren of) the taxpayers’ money, with strings attached, because small business and the working class are running out. It’s’ a work in progress, and very quickly I may add – The Kung Flu pandemic is the Socialists’ 9/11.

    I don’t believe in most big conspiracy theories, as I just don’t think the people involved are smart enough collectively to do them., but I sure think that the Big-Gov Socialists in America are doing a bang-up job taking advantage of this media-created crisis. They couldn’t have planned it better, but I personally think that Big Media is just enjoying their most popularity and business in years, while Big-Gov is enjoying the people’s hanging on the CDC’s every word, and very soon, will enjoy all the begging and pleading for “my share of the bail-out”.
    .

    * I only put “facts” in quotes because they are more like opinions. I do agree with them, for the most part.

    • Disagree: Corvinus
  5. On your opinions of China and its government:

    I don’t usually use the term “ChiComs” (even though it’s kind of fun and nostalgic). That government is totalitarian and becoming more Orwellian than George Orwell could even imagine. However, I think the people involved have learned their lesson on Communism, at least in the economic sense. Real Communism would halt and reverse the amazing economic progress of the last 40 years, starting just after the death of Mao. They don’t want that.

    The Chinese themselves seem to have no history of opposing Big Government, though you may have a correction for me, from their 3,500(?) year history. You’ll read and hear plenty of these Chinese people and these others calling for the end to corruption, and, if only we had good people in office, it would all be better. They are all completely deluded. By its very nature, government invites corruption. The bigger government, the more opportunities for it.

    On your last paragraph, I completely agree. The American people seem to be buying the idea that “lockdowns” (a term only used in Supermax prisons till 10 years back) and “sheltering in place” and shuttering businesses are a normal part of life and just what you just gotta do when government tells you. Most Americans have become sheep. I’m not optimistic that there are enough old-fashioned real Americans left to overcome our slide toward this same Orwellian state as China seems to be quickly heading toward. The Chinese are even worse though, as there doesn’t seem to be much resistance to a cashless society, tracking of everyone, and the type of thing that makes you think the Book of Revelation was written about the 2020s.

    • Agree: Mark G., BlackFlag
    • Replies: @Realist
    , @dfordoom
    , @Corvinus
  6. Dear me, where to begin on this steaming dish of wrongness? Let’s focus on four howlers:

    1. China, by contrast, is not democratic at all. In real life, China is a constitutional, elective, popular, procedural, operational, substantive, financial democracy whose elected [decades of supervision by the Carter Center] Congress exercises popular oversight of policy, not personnel. The evidence?
    2. The Chinese Communist Party..run a brutal, corrupt Leninist despotism. That’s pretty rich considering that we imprison 2,000,000 of our fellow citizens and execute 2,000 each year without trial. And that’s before we get to deliberate assassinations. Corrupt? Res ipsa loquitur

    3. Their treatment of scholarly, peaceable dissident Liu Xiaobo, who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2010. Hoo boy! Let’s hear it for scholarly, peaceable dissident Liu Xiaobo: “There is no free lunch anywhere in the world. The success of any righteous enterprise demands lots of suffering, even at a tragic price. This is especially true when law-abiding and civilized free countries are confronted with immoral and unreasonable authoritarian regimes, evil forces of terrorism and fundamentalism and the like and must enter into a contest, it is necessary to pay a huge price to win the final victory. The horrible catastrophe of 9/11 is the price for the US to promote freedom, the anti-terror war after 9/11 is only the beginning of an open contest between the forces of freedom and terrorism, NATO soldiers and civilian casualties are the price we must pay to fight terrorism, to overthrow Saddam’s tyranny, and to build a democratic Iraq. ”

    4. The level of population surveillance the ChiComs are aiming for might very well prevent future pandemics. Personally, as a lover of liberty, I’d rather take my chances with the viruses. You pays your money and takes your choice, of course, but the Chinese have always had an entirely different take on personal privacy and are wildly enthusiastic about CCTV, face recognition (both of which are supported by 60% of us) and Social Credit. They have good reasons for their enthusiasm, one of which is this:

    • Troll: Achmed E. Newman
  7. Realist says:

    Will Coronavirus be A Reality Check On Democracy Itself?

    Derbyshire has started forming his headlines as a question…is Buchanan writing them for him?

  8. Realist says:

    Tucker Carlson occasionally has Gordon Chang on his show as a guest, introducing him as the author of a book titled The Coming Collapse of China.

    That always gets a smile out of me. I reviewed that book when it came out … back in August of 2001

    Chang is a discredited China hater. Carlson is a blatant hypocrite. A few short months ago Carlson couldn’t stop (rightly) belittling the left for demonizing Russia…with his mantra…Russia, Russia, Russia. Now he is doing the exact same thing with China. Carlson is promulgating the Conservative Inc side of the Deep State coin. Russia and China are an existential threat to the Deep State, who derive their wealth and power through hegemony. So demonizing both Russia and China is a win/win for the Deep State.

  9. Realist says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Instead of simply dismissing someone as a troll, when you disagree with their premise, as you did with Godfree Roberts comment #6…why don’t you construct a factual, logical rebuttal?
    You pulled that bullshit on me a few months ago…that is when our occasional interaction ended.

    • Troll: Chris Mallory
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  10. TG says:

    “Democracy?” What’s that?

    The United States is not a Democracy in any meaningful way (at least not at the Federal level). It’s an oligarchy with an occasional circus show. The American public don’t want mass immigration, they don’t want endless pointless foreign wars, they don’t want multi-trillion dollar bailouts for banks, they don’t want ‘surprise medical billing,’ they don’t want their entire industrial base shipped to China… the American people be damned.

    It is not quite true that our politicians only think ahead to the next election: they are also thinking to later on, when they cash in for betraying the public interest. Look at how much money the Clintons and Obamas made after retiring from ‘public service.’ If there is short-term thinking here, it is for our ruling elites, who don’t even look to the next election, but only upcoming quarterly profits.

    What do I think about Democracy? To paraphrase Ghandi, I think that it might be a good idea. But it will never be allowed to happen, certainly not here. Right now, the most actually democratic major country in the world is probably Switzerland, and they’re not doing all the badly at all.

  11. @Realist

    I don’t remember that, unless you were just being your often ornery self, and it was getting hopeless. Why don’t you link me to that comment? (If you can find it, the time/date stamp is a link to the comment on the page, if that helps)

    As for Roberts, he’s got his own blog or column going on unz with 100’s of Commies there to back him up. He doesn’t need to keep inserting his ridiculous’ Commie lies every time the Chinese government is mentioned. HIs graphs are BS, his sack-hanging on Chairman Mao is BS, and I’ve been through this with him over and over

    I’d been interacting with Godfree Roberts for quite a while, but it’s pretty much a waste of time. Perhaps he’d like to quit trolling us and instead of presenting completely made-up graphs (to the level of absurdity), he could answer Mr. Derbyshire more directly. Maybe he could explain to us why he stays in Thailand selling retirement plans vs. actually ever going to China (been there 11 times myself).

    The [Troll] button is there, and I’ve used it less than a dozen times. With some of the idiots on here, the frequency of my use of it will likely increase. Just a warning, so you’re aware (obviously very important to you).

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Commentator Mike
  12. @Godfree Roberts

    The horrible catastrophe of 9/11 is the price for the US to promote freedom, the anti-terror war after 9/11 is only the beginning of an open contest between the forces of freedom and terrorism, NATO soldiers and civilian casualties are the price we must pay to fight terrorism, to overthrow Saddam’s tyranny, and to build a democratic Iraq.

    OMG This guy sounds just like Russian “pro-democracy” activists. They have the same language, the same message in every corner of the world. It’s like they are bred in a lab or something.

  13. I dunno, Greg. That particular aspect of reality has been obvious to me, and to a great many of us over here, for a long time, but the obviousness of it hasn’t worked its way through to political action.

    The misfortune of shutting down Spring Break, albeit late, is that Corona-Chan did not get a sufficient chance to cull a large swath of the “That’s not who we are” crowd. To take a page from Rahm Emmanuel’s book, never let a crisis go to waste.

    President Trump told us that without foreign guest workers coming in to do agricultural work, actual quote from the President, “we’re not going to have farms.”

    Where is Pol Pot when you need him? America’s cities are full of idle hands, many of them legally present in the US… make them earn that $1,200.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  14. Realist says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t remember that, unless you were just being your often ornery self, and it was getting hopeless. Why don’t you link me to that comment? (If you can find it, the time/date stamp is a link to the comment on the page, if that helps)

    The [Troll] button is there, and I’ve used it less than a dozen times. With some of the idiots on here, the frequency of my use of it will likely increase. Just a warning, so you’re aware (obviously very important to you).

    I think you are being puerile. There is not a chance I would spend a second looking for the link. Ohhh a warning…it has no importance to me at all…I will just continue to ignore you.

    • Replies: @captflee
  15. Anonymous[207] • Disclaimer says:
    @Realist

    Agree. Tucker’s China-bashing is annoying (except for his defense of animals). I mute it when Chang comes on. Chang worked for law firm/banks in Hong Kong and has been a long-time professional Sinophobe. And as Derbyshire made light of, Chang’s prognostication= Nostradumbass.

    MAGA America’s embrace of Sinophobia shows they have not learned one damn thing from Deep State’s Russiagate. As Caitlin Johnstone has pointed out, China is becoming for MAGA NPCs what Russia is for neolib NPCs.

    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/liberal-npcs-hate-russia-conservative-npcs-hate-china-9b4ac2f853

  16. captflee says:
    @Realist

    If this is you ignoring him, your engaging with him must truly be a spectacle for the ages…

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Realist
  17. Realist says:
    @Anonymous

    Agree. Tucker’s China-bashing is annoying (except for his defense of animals). I mute it when Chang comes on. Chang worked for law firm/banks in Hong Kong and has been a long-time professional Sinophobe. And as Derbyshire made light of, Chang’s prognostication= Nostradumbass.

    MAGA America’s embrace of Sinophobia shows they have not learned one damn thing from Deep State’s Russiagate. As Caitlin Johnstone has pointed out, China is becoming for MAGA NPCs what Russia is for neolib NPCs.

    Excellent comments. Yes, China as some horrific, cruel culinary habits and I very much loath the cruelty.

    I also read Cailin’s article and posted it here a couple weeks ago, in addition to a couple other places.

    Here it is on March 22nd

    Realist says:
    March 22, 2020 at 11:13 am GMT • 100 Words
    @Known Fact

    ZeroHedge comments mostly range from apocalyptic to sophomoric, but at least that site was spotlighting the carnage in China way back in January

    No, ZeroHedge was sensationalising the carnage in China. ZeroHedge has a hate China theme going.

    Here is an excellent article from Caitlin Johnstone:

    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/liberal-npcs-hate-russia-conservative-npcs-hate-china-9b4ac2f853

    • Replies: @Realist
  18. @Achmed E. Newman

    Achmed,

    That last chart Godfree posted on coronavirus deaths is impressive and I’m sure it agrees with data we all follow on https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ and it is properly reported as should be per million population.

    China was the first and worst hit at the time, and all other countries had the advantage of having been forewarned and able to watch the developments in China yet are unable to match those low death rates. And China is overcrowded, polluted, low hygiene where most people spit all the time even indoors (as Chinese do), and still handled this far better than the West, while dealing with something completely unknown to the world on its own. Now surely it deserves some credit for that.

    On the other hand, if all the reported data on this virus on that site is dubious and is being manipulated, something strange is going on for such huge discrepancies between countries to show up. Not sure what to make of it other than what are reported as Covid-19 deaths aren’t standardised internationally. Shouldn’t the WHO have issued some guidelines on this? At least presenting the data as Godfree did, instead of in absolute numbers, is most interesting.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  19. @Commentator Mike

    I was not writing about the Kung Flu death graphs, Mike. It was the 1st 2 that prompted the [Troll] tag. I don’t know enough to say whether that stuff is good or not, so you may be right. It’s Mr. Roberts’ lies about the Communist era in China, including the usual other 2 graphs and a bunch more that he will post regularly, based on pure silliness, that I’m getting tired of.

    My source from China says that things in Wuhan were a whole lot worse, fatality wise, then the governments are letting on. I appreciate your reply, but I won’t get into this discussion here. Mr. Derbyshire likely long ago got tired of trying to engage with Godfree Roberts’ continual touting of Chinese Communism (say the hard-core, 1949-1980 version) as the cat’s Mao. I wrote him back politely* a number of times in the past, but got tired of it. The 1st 2 graphs in his comment here were just the usual trolling.

    .

    * Not all the time, and I must admit, Mr. Roberts has always been civil in his replies.

  20. Derbyshire is an ideological monorail. The evil Chinese put whatshisname in prison, while the US, democratic to the core, would never think of doing such an inhuman thing to, say, Assange, Manning or Snowden, right? How many million peple and how many countries has evil Chin killed and wrecked since, say nineteen sixty-five? China? But that’s all right because America does it to promote democracy and human rights. “Chicom”: This is virtue-signalling Cold War jargon, but anyone with a dictionary can find that China isn’t communist. Human rights? How much difference is there between Xiang Jiang and, say, -america’s black ghettos with up-against-the-wall, spread-your-legs stop-and-frisk? But we are not doing it to control a racial minority. Perish forfend. It’s to protect their rights or something.

    Wind-up toys whether of Left or Right are equally tedious.

  21. Anonymous[125] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    The Chinese are not going to get the 5G contract in Britain they thought was in the bag, I can tell you that.

    It was never in the bag. UK elites should be happy that this coronavirus thing intervened and now gives them an excuse to back away. If it hadn’t and they’d continued pursuing a deal with Huawei, they would’ve really had something coming:

  22. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    On your last paragraph, I completely agree. The American people seem to be buying the idea that “lockdowns” (a term only used in Supermax prisons till 10 years back) and “sheltering in place” and shuttering businesses are a normal part of life and just what you just gotta do when government tells you.

    That’s what happens when people are scared. In a crisis people want the government to tell them what to do. As Belloc wrote, “Always keep a-hold of Nurse / For fear of finding something worse.” In a crisis people also desperately want to believe that the government knows what it’s doing. That’s why the staggeringly incompetent western leaders who caused this fiasco are now riding high in the polls.

    So inevitably people are going to welcome an outrageous increase in totalitarianism and are going to be happy to give up their freedoms.

    There’s little doubt that many of the horrific features of the lockdowns will become permanent parts of life. The next inevitable step for our wonderful western political leaders will undoubtedly be to criminalise Corona Dissent. Haven’t the Hungarians already made it illegal to question the government line on COVID-19? Expect more of that.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  23. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    MAGA America’s embrace of Sinophobia shows they have not learned one damn thing from Deep State’s Russiagate.

    It was inevitable that the MAGA knuckle-draggers would want to blame everything on China. It’s better than having to admit that maybe Trump hasn’t done a great job of dealing with the current crisis.

  24. Realist says:
    @captflee

    If this is you ignoring him, your engaging with him must truly be a spectacle for the ages…

    I notice you don’t post often. It is strange you would choose to snidely reply to my comment…since it has no relevance to you. Perhaps you and Achmed are acquaintances.

  25. @Sean

    Average age of white Americans is 58. I minorities it is under 30.

    Not so. That is the most common age, the mode. The median age for white Americans is 44 (half of all white Americans are older/younger than that). For minorities, it’s 31. If the median age for white Americans were indeed 58, you’d have an extremely aged nation, given that they’re still the majority.

    They still haven’t released data that is vital for formulating a strategy for lockdown exit in the West.

    Why would they do that? How it would benefit them?

  26. Anonymous[240] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sean

    Average age of white Americans is 58. I minorities it is under 30. The shock of hearing of the white death toll among family and friends plus it being epitomised in media obits of celebrities will elicit Dread Risk and result in whites forming a block, like quicksilver did in the old puzzle toys.

    This would also suggest that the US has to wage war against China soon, within the next 10 years or so, no?

    If not soon, relative power would change too much. China would be too big, and the US would be increasingly diverse. White Americans, or at least a major subset of white Americans, tend to be the most jingoistic and enthusiastic American sub-population regarding military adventurism and willing to participate in a major military conflict, especially against a non-white group. Furthermore, a more diverse America would have less “assabiya” and human capital. American national security elites probably intuit this on some level, if only subconsciously, and understand that they have a window of opportunity that will not remain open forever.

    • Replies: @anon
  27. Anon[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    You are the tedious one (and I hate comment bickering) Derb has been nothing but a gentleman to you. I trust his learned judgment a million times over your we Todd id, incoherent rants.

  28. Rich says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    But Godfree, wouldn’t Chinese citizens be afraid to answer negatively to any question about their love of the government because of the possible consequences? Your chart kind of shows the freer countries having citizens willing to say they don’t trust their governments. Getting 84% of free people to agree on anything, is virtually impossible. Unless it’s Manhattan voting for anyone with a D next to his name.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  29. Rich says:
    @Frederick V. Reed

    Do you really believe that in America blacks are being harassed in “ghettos”? Whites don’t care about “ghettos”, would leave them to the blacks and never look back. The problem is your black criminals leaving the “ghetto” to do mayhem to the law abiding. You should spend a day or two looking into the stats about the enormous number of violent crimes committed by blacks throughout the US, before you start defending them like some lily-White liberal from the 60s who only knew blacks from TV and the movies.

    You can’t be the Fred Reed who writes at Unz, that guy at least has a little common sense, or at least I though he did.

  30. Svevlad says:

    Naw. What will it do is complete the separation of the world into the international finance cabal-led west and nearly everyone else. By 2100 the West will be some WH40k tzeentach/slaneesh worshiper hybrid with academics of meme studies as the new priests, the tech people rule, and you have some sort of caste system based off the oppression pyramid, involuntary gender reasignment surgeries, mandatory degeneracy basically while the east will probably start looking more and more like the Combine. You know damn well who wins long term

    • Replies: @Korenchkin
  31. @dfordoom

    Agreed, DforDoom. In this case, as per my 2nd Peak Stupidity link above (comment #4), I think this will become, hell, already is, the Socialists’ 9/11. The new Police State business is 9/11-like, but this spending of $2,000,000,000,000 to $6,000,000,000,000 of borrowed money to dole out however the ruling Party members like is a great day for the Socialists.

    With a more intelligent bunch of Americans, i.e. the huge 90% white core of 1955, there would not be enough stupidity around to enable this “the government’s gonna help us” business. Hell, there was a Cold War on, DforDoom, and nukes could have been falling on just a bad day at the Kremlin, but Americans of that era built their own damn bomb shelters or did whatever they felt they had to do.

    It’s also about what 5 1/2 decades of this Socialism ramp-up has done, along with other evils (dysgenic population growth, for one). It has created a dependent class of people. I know plenty good Americans who aren’t, but they are too small of a minority now. Why should I really give a damn about this Gov-tit-sucking majority, I ask myself.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  32. @Rich

    You can’t be the Fred Reed who writes at Unz, that guy at least has a little common sense, or at least I though he did.

    Haha! On this I am of the very opposite opinion, Rich. I think Mr. Reed has some pretty valid points in (most of) this comment, which is NOT what I see in most of his columns.

    I know Mr. Derbyshire doesn’t chime in a whole lot more than Fred Reed, but I’d like to see a light-yellow box debate right here, no Response comments barred.

  33. @Frederick V. Reed

    Mr. Reed, I didn’t not mash [AGREE] out of spite, as I just don’t think you’ve read enough John Derbyshire. I think you are partially right, but I also know that he knows a whole lot about China. I have been there 11 times, and spoken to lots of Chinese people frankly. I enjoyed your first 2 columns about what you saw on your recent trip there – those 2 are were some good reporting.

    I am very sorry about your eyesight. I did read your recent column and didn’t know what to say yet. No matter how much I disagree, I do think you write well and enjoy writing. I hope you can figure out a way to handle this.

  34. anon[362] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    If not soon, relative power would change too much. China would be too big, and the US would be increasingly diverse. White Americans, or at least a major subset of white Americans, tend to be the most jingoistic and enthusiastic American sub-population regarding military adventurism and willing to participate in a major military conflict, especially against a non-white group. Furthermore, a more diverse America would have less “assabiya” and human capital. American national security elites probably intuit this on some level, if only subconsciously, and understand that they have a window of opportunity that will not remain open forever.

    Perhaps, but my feeling is that the window of opportunity has probably already closed. Biden will win in 2020 and after there will never be another republican president. POC don’t care about military stuff. AOC or someone like her will bring home the legions one day in exchanse for more gibs. That white enthusiasm will also fade pretty quickly afterwards. And most of the anti-China stuff is confined to old Boomers as it is. There are notable exceptions, but many young right-wing whites don’t care. As it is now, China is too strong to challenge without mass casualties. I don’t expect diversity USA to be willing to sustain any kind of casualties against that country in a war.

    • Replies: @Alfa158
  35. They might even make it to the ChiCom centenary in 2049, although personally I’d bet a modest amount of money against that.

    Derb will turn 104. He’ll need it.

    Not impossible. One of America’s favorite writers of the last 70 years, Beverly Cleary, turns 104 Easter Sunday.

    The Atlantic on how things have changed since Derb was in kneepants and Henry Huggins came out:

    These depict a childhood world now outwardly vanished: not only are the Klickitat kids just fascinated by Buck Rogers–style robots, they have the run of their humble middle-class neighborhood, unsupervised by adults; kindergartners walk themselves to school, followed by dogs unencumbered by leash laws. (It’s a world, of course, made possible only by the unobtrusive, in fact usually un-noted, presence of the neighborhood’s stay-at-home mothers.)

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/07/my-ramona/308553/

  36. Most of the people in the developed world aren’t happy with China right now. And why should they be. This amen corner of Sinophiles here isn’t real life. It’s a group of psychopaths looking for a pat on the head from the Sinophile in chief, Ron Unz. The fact that Fred Reed showed up here to defend China’s honor is simply precious. Apparently he’s not only legally blind, he’s blind to his own previous writings on race. The black man’s friend, he isn’t.

  37. The cat is out of the bag. Let it run around and kill some birds. Can’t be stopped now.

    I wonder how this crisis would have been covered by the media if Hillary had won.

    Media likely would not gone crazy to pin the blame on Hillary. A more rational solution would have been found.

    But Trump panicked because he was gonna be blamed for every death.

  38. @MBlanc46

    Godfree Roberts is ridiculous about China. China is brutal and authoritarian.

    Still, its power is within China, whereas US is a brutal imperialist hegemon that invades and destroys entire nations. Libya, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Ukraine, Russia, Venezuela, and etc have been madet to suffer directly or indirectly because US foreign policy serves Jewish supremacist lunacy.

    Also, US democracy is pretty hollow. Sure, people get to vote, but politicians are all vetted by the oligarchs, mostly Jewish. We vote for Jewish puppets, not real leaders. Even Trump who angered Jews ended up to be just another shill. He killed hero Soleimani and supports brutal Israeli regime.
    As for Media, when Jews who are 2% control over 95% of media, the US hardly has a free press. And when Jews own Google and Facebook and rig results, we hardly have freedom where it really counts.
    And Charlottesville showed that Constitution means nothing when Jews are displeased.

    Of course, there is still a lot more freedom in the US than in China. And dissident corners of the internet can still speak truth to power. But all such voices have had NO impact whatsoever on elite institutions of power. All the BDS talk on dissident sectors of the internet had zero impact on US policy in the Middle East. People like Stephen Cohen had no impact on Big Media’s Russia Collusion BS. Even though Trump survived the BS, it was ONLY because he pandered to GOP Jews who made him stay in Syria and suck up to Israel more and ruin chances of good relations with Russia.

    Still, more freedom in the US than in China. But one might argue that China still acts in Chinese interests whereas US policy is essentially anti-American and pro-globo-Zionist. China has national politics whereas the US has colonial politics not unlike that in India when Hindus had to serve the British imperialists.

    As for Derb’s animus toward China, it’s an Anglo thing. Derb has a Paleo-imperialist mentality and his feelings are colored by Old Britannia and all that. This side of him prefers China as Hong Cuck or British-ruled Shanghai, part of Anglosphere. China as nationally independent power offends his 007 sensibility.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  39. @Rich

    There are several ways to answer your question:

    1. Why would Chinese citizens fear their government? PRC prisons are empty compared to ours, their cops are unarmed, and the government spends very little on policing.

    2. We are no more free than the Chinese and, in substantive ways, much less so. Harvard’s Gary King[1] says,

    “Contrary to much research and commentary, the purpose of the censorship program is not to suppress criticism of the State or the Communist Party. Indeed, despite widespread censorship of social critics, we find that when Chinese people write scathing criticisms of their government and its leaders the probability that their post will be censored does not increase. Instead, censored tweets were equally likely to be against the state, for the state, irrelevant, or factual reports about events. Negative, even vitriolic criticism of the state, its leaders and its policies are not more likely to be censored.”

    Maria Repnikova[2] finds critical journalism alive and well:

    [MORE]

    A popular depiction of Chinese media in the past decade has been that of a fearful, loyal agent of the ruthless party-state which exudes no tolerance towards its critics. Indoctrinated to channel official propaganda to the public, silenced by censorship and threatened by coercion, Chinese journalists function in one of the world’s toughest places when it comes to media freedom.…

    What goes unnoticed beneath the stark imagery of collision between the mighty state and the fearless, isolated critics however, is the web of complex negotiations taking place between some Chinese journalists and party officials. Specifically, whereas the majority of Chinese reporting still adheres to the propaganda model, in the past three decades an exceptional practice of what I term ‘critical journalism,’ including investigative, in-depth, editorial and human-interest coverage of contentious societal issues, has emerged in China amid the restrictive environment..what unites these journalists is their pursuit of social justice and their quest to push the envelope of permissible reporting.

    They exposed stories such as the 2002 AIDS epidemic in Henan province, the 2003 Sun Zhigang case of a migrant worker illegally detained and beaten to death in Guangzhou, the scandalous school demolitions in the 2008 Sichuan earthquake, the 2008 milk-poisoning scandal, widespread environmental protests and food safety crises among other contentious issues. In most cases their stories raised a wide public outcry, as manifested in active discussions online, and in some cases they also produced a moderate policy shift…recently demonstrated in courageous investigative reporting of the major chemical explosion in Tianjin.

    Investigative journalist Cui Yongyuan[3] hosted a popular talk show, Tell It Like It Is, that garnered him 20 million Weibo followers. In 2013 he catalyzed national debate by voicing vehement opposition to the government’s plan to introduce genetically modified food. He exchanged heated, personal attacks with GM food supporters, greatly impacted how it is viewed, and helped defeat the legislation. His allegations about tax evasion by China’s highest-paid actress, Fan Bingbing, triggered a nationwide tax audit of the entire entertainment industry and forced it to disgorge two billion dollars in taxes and fines. He publicly accused Shanghai police of taking huge bribes during their investigation of the case and of ignoring death threats to himself and his daughter. When the police responded by saying they had been unable to reach him, Cui ridiculed them and turned his attention to the highest levels of the legal system.

    Major national media had been carrying investigative reports of irregularities in an allegation that Shaanxi Provincial government had pleaded with the Supreme Court for a favorable ruling in its long-running case against the owner of a billion-dollar coal mine–an illicit interference in a legal procedure. The story was too technical to capture popular imagination until Cui published an expletive-laden Weibo post demanding to know why case files on the disputed mine were missing and accusing the President of the Supreme Court of malfeasance. The court denied Cui’s allegations then, forty-eight hours later, admitted they were valid and promised to investigate. Then a leaked videotape showed a Supreme Court judge hinting that the case files were stolen from his office and that CCTV cameras had been sabotaged when the documents vanished. Another leak, the first page of a classified supreme court document on the mine case, showed judges’ directives on how to keep the case secret. Cui reposted the official announcement on his Sina Weibo and told media that he took on the national supreme court to uphold justice and educate the Supreme Court about law. So great was the national uproar that President Xi personally intervened, telling the judiciary and law enforcement agencies to investigate the scandal openly and fearlessly and ‘scrape away the poison.’ When his campaign elicited mixed responses from Weibo users Cui was unapologetic, “In China there are too many damn people afraid of getting into trouble and too few with the courage to speak the truth.

    Surprisingly, when journalists impinge on national security, the consequences are relatively mild. The government funded the monthly journal, China Through the Ages, for thirty years and a hundred thousand subscribers enjoyed its blunt criticisms of ‘the Party’s self-serving narrative about the Cultural Revolution,’ and its advocacy of constitutional, multi-party democracy and privatization of state assets. Beijing finally lost patience and cancelled its subsidy after the journal praised Zhao Ziyang, the Cabinet Minister who collaborated with the CIA during the Tiananmen demonstrations but, even then, the editor went down fighting, “This magazine will stop publication due to policy changes reflecting the establishment’s intolerance of reformers and liberals.” Imagine the US Government funding America Through the Ages for thirty years as it advocated one-party rule, workers’ ownership of the means of production and the abolition of competitive, multi-party elections.

    3. The Chinese, like the Singaporeans, expect government to provide sober, accurate, verifiable and balanced information. Compared to earnest reports in The People’s Daily about crop yields, consumer laws and artificial intelligence, the New York Times’ reports of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction and the President’s Russian connection seems incomprehensibly scandalous to Chinese readers. Temple University Professor Deborah A. Cai[4] says, “Chinese reporting on the US appears to be relatively balanced overall. Extreme negative tones toward the US are rare and appear mostly during periods of overt Sino-US confrontation, such as the reconnaissance plane incident or, more recently, following America’s decisions to raise steel import tariffs or conduct unilateral actions in the Middle East.”

    4. Everything’s turning up roses for the average Chinese. The government has kept every promise it has made[5] for the past 70 years and next year, every Chinese in the bottom 50% income bracket will own a home and have an income, plenty of food and clothes, better education than Americans, safe streets, health insurance, a pensions, and old age care. By then, 300,000,000 urban Chinese will have more net worth and disposable income than the average American, their mothers and infants will be less likely to die in childbirth, their children will graduate from high school three years ahead of American kids and live longer, healthier lives and there will be more drug addicts, suicides and executions, more homeless, poor, hungry and imprisoned people in America than in China. What’s not to like?

    5. There are no Chelsea Mannings or Julian Assanges in Chinese prisons, despite what our media tell us. There as here, you can go to jail for acting as the undeclared paid agent of a hostile foreign power or conspiring to overthrow the government by force–but those offenses are outside the pale of ‘free speech’ everywhere, not just in China.

    _______________________________________________

    [1] “Reverse-Engineering Chinese Censorship”. Harvard Magazine, Gary King, September 12, 2013
    [2] Media Politics in China: Improvising Power under Authoritarianism by Maria Repnikova, C.U.P., July 15, 2017.
    [3] MEET CUI YONGYUAN, CHAT SHOW HOST: CHINA’S UNLIKELIEST WHISTLE-BLOWER (JUST ASK FAN BINGBING). SCMP Jan 26, 2019
    [4] Deborah A. Cai, Perspectives Toward the United States in Selected Newspapers of the People’s Republic of China. University of Maryland Institute for Global Chinese Affairs and the Department of Communications, May 2002, pp. 6–7.
    [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-year_plans_of_China

  40. @Rich

    I was married to an American Black for 22 years and lived in Harlem. In America blacks are being harassed in “ghettos,” trust me.

    • Replies: @Rich
  41. Mr. Anon says:
    @Realist

    I agree. I have generally lost a fair amount of respect for Carlson when he started fanning the Coronavirus bonfire and tacitly backed the “Lockdown”. The China-antagonizing he’s been doing for a while and I find it equally silly. Yes, we should disentangle ourselves from them economically, and in no way trust China (there’s a few other countries we should trust less too), but that doesn’t mean we should replace them for Russia as the deep-state’s boogieman.

    Chang was on Carlson’s show tonight saying that we should seize China’s foreign financial assets as reparations for the coronavirus. Does he imagine China would do nothing to retaliate? We’re imposing a depression on ourselves and the Republican party wants to blame China for it Wars can come out of depressions. Do they imagine they can fight and win a war against China? We shut down the whole country for a viral epidemic that might end up claiming fewer lives than a normal flu season. The Chinese probably think we’re p**sies. It’s highly dangerous for all the swaggering numbskulls in the military/intelligence/foreign-policy to think that the US would all pull together and fight a war like we did in WWII. This America isn’t the America of 1941.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Realist
  42. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Hell, there was a Cold War on, DforDoom, and nukes could have been falling on just a bad day at the Kremlin, but Americans of that era built their own damn bomb shelters or did whatever they felt they had to do.

    I remember the Cold War. People weren’t particularly hysterical about it. They went to work, got married, bought houses (remember when people could afford to buy houses?) and raised kids. They got on with life. They weren’t hiding under the bed. I don’t remember my parents ever mentioning the Cold War or Nuclear Armageddon.

    People also didn’t get hysterical about the 1968 flu epidemic.

    People were less fearful during the Cold War. Strange but true. Of course in those days there was no 24-hour cable news or social media to fuel the hysteria.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  43. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Priss Factor

    As for Derb’s animus toward China, it’s an Anglo thing. Derb has a Paleo-imperialist mentality and his feelings are colored by Old Britannia and all that. This side of him prefers China as Hong Cuck or British-ruled Shanghai, part of Anglosphere. China as nationally independent power offends his 007 sensibility.

    Yes, it’s rather sad. He’s one of those Englishmen who just can’t accept that the UK is no longer a Great Power and that Britannia no longer rules the waves. He hasn’t even come to terms with the realities of the 1950s yet, much less the 21st century. He likes the inferior races to be suitably subservient.

    Fred Reed’s comment was pretty accurate.

  44. SafeNow says:

    Here in unraveled California (don’t get me started), a positive and partially offsetting aspect has been our immigration from northeast Asia. These are very decent, industrious, smart people, and I am glad we welcomed them. One must differentiate between China and our Chinese people; an obvious point I suppose, but I will underscore it.

  45. China will call the shots after this is over. All the world sees is the USA flailing badly while the leader appears more interested in rambling incoherently on his daily TV show than actually leading. China seems to be everywhere, flying in medical supplies and training doctors.

    It is interesting how the Trump/Fox News push to call the virus the “Chinese Virus” or the “Wuhan virus” seems to have come to a sudden halt after Xi talked to Trump on March 27. Xi must have threatened Trump with something because it has been Corona Virus ever since.

  46. @Svevlad

    You know damn well who wins long term

    The God Emperor leading the Imperium from Third Rome
    Suffer not the heretic

  47. Corvinus says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    There is no such thing as an “old-fashioned real American”, just American. And since most tend not to embrace your line of thinking, then you are reduced to having to refer to them as “sheep”.

    Furthermore, corruption is the design of individuals, who become part of something, like government or business, and then engage in corrupting activities.

  48. Alfa158 says:
    @anon

    That sounds about right. The Deep State might think that President Biden will go along with: Invade Syria! And Iran! And Venezuela! And no fly zone over Ukraine! And blockade Russian Navy from the Black Sea! ad infinitum.
    The senile old codger would be perfectly happy to play General MacArthur, but he would in reality be more like Adolf in the bunker moving around non-existent divisions. The military no longer has enough combat troops, the Bitterly Clinging Flyover Deplorables who make up most of the fighters have already lost their enthusiasm and are getting tired of dying for people who hate them, the Vibrants have no interest in doing it for a nation they don’t relate to, and the whole enterprise is being financed by the printing of Monopoly money.

  49. Realist says:
    @Realist

    Should read…I also read Caitlin’s…

  50. Realist says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Chang was on Carlson’s show tonight saying that we should seize China’s foreign financial assets as reparations for the coronavirus. Does he imagine China would do nothing to retaliate?

    Chang is proof that not all Chinese are intelligent.

    It’s highly dangerous for all the swaggering numbskulls in the military/intelligence/foreign-policy to think that the US would all pull together and fight a war like we did in WWII. This America isn’t the America of 1941.

    That’s for sure.

  51. @dfordoom

    The Cold War had some positive effects. Globalism did not emerge until the fall of the Berlin Wall. Japan was the China of trade imbalances during the Cold War, which nobody here under 40 will remember.

    Because of restrictions on globalism there was more production-nobody here will remember when a union had any real clout or Reagan going to war with them if they are under 40.

    The US propped up some Latin American madmen like Noriega who ran their economies on cocaine profits, but border security was enforced. NAFTA would never have been possible during the Cold War. Che Guevara and other Marxist-influenced guerrillas made this impossible.

    And China would not do business with the US. Industrial espionage would have been impossible.

    Soros and others of his ilk were regarded dubiously. Leftists did not thrive until Clinton was elected after the Fall of the Berlin Wall.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  52. @Rich

    They are left to blacks. Point blank. One reason is no resources. Why live in Detroit or Flint if there are no decent jobs? For the frigid winters, maybe. Once high-paying jobs were gone, whites left. They had too, because the public service sector left and there were no fiscal funds left for infrastructure repaid.

    Black residents were stuck due to early pregnancy. If you have two kids by age 20 you won’t be moving anywhere. You need money from welfare and you cannot move somewhere else. You cannot hire a U-Haul van and pay a security deposit on an apartment and get a residence in a new state. You cannot afford gasoline money. You cannot complete a college degree and no amount of AA is going to get you a job in another state. All you can do is hope the dwindling public fiscal funds guarantee you a job. Also, parole means no leaving the state. Probation. If you smoke crack, you cannot withdraw long enough to move to another state and find a new job. Even if you own a house, it is worth nothing. Who are you going to sell your house to in Detroit. Last I heard you could purchase a house in Detroit for one dollar.

    Rural life does not suit everyone. Let me tell you about my friend Trish, an Irish American from Philadelphia. She met a Marine named Michael from Michigan. He returned there and she studied in my program at Central Michigan. They moved to California in the mid-90’s. People forget how desirous California was back then, because illegal immigration trashed it within a decade. She got a decent job in Marina Del Ray but the Cholos destroyed her neighborhood and she moved to Idaho. A small town. The only job she could get was running a tattoo parlor. Okay, a job is a job. She is good at it, but tattooing marijuana leaves on people’s butts is not what I would want to do all day. She lives in some old farmhouse, which to me, sounds kind of disgusting. I don’t want to live in an old farmhouse 10 mile down a dirt road with ten feet of snow in the winter.

    …And neither do most urban black people. They are not desirous of rural living. Not everyone is Jason Voorhees.

    Suburbs are of course the ideal, but these are beyond the means of most African Americans. So there is nowhere to go.

    Of course, some people join the military and escape. Then, upon discharge, they use whatever skills they acquired to find a job somewhere else. But real estate is expensive. And you can rent your entire life and still never own an apartment. Live somewhere for 30 years, miss rent, you’re evicted.

    Which, by the way, will happen to many. We are going to see a society of homeless in America. Entire tent cities like the Philippines sprawling into the horizon.

    I’m not sure why Australia is different, but it is.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  53. @Corvinus

    The only reason, I’m replying at all, Mr. C., is that Mr. Unz was oddly remiss in not including a [SHEEP] button.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  54. @Jeff Stryker

    Jeff, your timeline is a bit off in the beginning. The Cold War started right after the end of WWII, but arguably sometime in the late 1940s. Japan did not become any serious threat to American manufacturing until the mid-1970s when they went whole hog into the auto export business. There were 30 years you’re missing. You may be over 40, but you are apparently not old enough to remember (or have learned about) the time in which American economic might was unchallenged*.

    .

    * Now some would say the 2nd world, as in the Communist world WAS a big economic challenger, but that came from 2 groups: The MIC, in order to justify building more and newer weapons, and the American-based Commie left, who promoted Communism as a winning economic policy. It turned out, no Communism never works out economically contrary to the writings of pretty much only ONE GUY, and Red China and Russia (though less so militarily) were paper Pandas and hyper-hibernated Bears, respectively.

  55. Rich says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I grew up in NYC, and still work there, blacks have always committed the overwhelming majority of violent crimes. Their neighborhoods were cesspools of crime, and because they’d run out of victims, they’d drift into White neighborhoods to steal and assault. I worked in Harlem for several years and the only Palefaces I ever saw were my fellow workers and firemen. It’s a little different nowadays, a lot of gentrification, but you still get your old fashioned mugging or rape at way higher rates in black neighborhoods.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  56. @Jeff Stryker

    Jeff, I appreciate your colorful anecdotes, seriously, but your history seems to come ONLY from your personal experience some of the time. White people left lots of inner cities, North, South, East, and West, due to their concern about property damage and other physical violence from black people after the riot in the 1960s through ’70s. Before that, if you go back to the 1950s, Detroit (your future home) was considered the “Paris of the West”. I know that’s been hard to believe for the last half a century, but that’s no joke. Detroit got just as cold in the 1950s winters as it does now, right?

    You’ve got it backwards: Once white people left, the good jobs left the inner cities. You can’t hire all black people if you’re planning on manufacturing cars. There’s no way. Additionally, the people that reliably paid significant amounts of taxes from those good jobs being gone, public infrastructure was bound to go downhill too.

    There are plenty of black people in suburbs. I’d ask you to read Paul Kersey’s book, or at least some of his columns, about Atlanta. Within 20 years, a county that was formerly 90% white suburbia, would become over 1/2 black, and the whites would have to flee even farther. I gotta say, I don’t like the whole environment of an EXurb in a lot of ways, along with the McMansions that exist there. However, there’s a reason people with children keep high-tailing it out farther and farther. Guess who wins every time: the F.I.R.E. “industries”. Selling your house at a loss? Doesn’t matter – Ker Ching!

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  57. Art Deco says:
    @Sean

    Average age of white Americans is 58.

    The median age of non-hispanic whites is 45. That for blacks is about 35.

  58. Corvinus says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Again, that is easy for you to say. Anyone who opposes your line of thinking, you can call them a “sheep”. You’re no different than a radical feminist in this regard. That way, you remain in your ideological bubble, warding off anyone who dares to puncture it.

    • Troll: YetAnotherAnon
  59. anastasia says:

    We got a germaphobe President, and now we are all running away from invisible germs. It’s a joke.
    When I was a poor kid, with an alleged “immature immune system”, and all of us in my neighborhood were poor, in the summer months, we used to take the gum on the street that cars ran over, take the pebbles out of the gum and eat it. Now, probably the same kids I grew up with are trying to dodge invisible germs. Even if you believed the virologists, then you would know that the “virus” can go right through the pores of your mask. The CDC told us initially not to wear a mask ( a mask that we would be constantly touching our face to arrange), and now CDC “changed their minds” and said wear one. If they told Americans to soak themselves in gasoline to get rid of the virus, they would.

  60. anastasia says:

    We got a germaphobe President, and now we are all running away from invisible germs. It’s a joke.
    When I was a poor kid, with an alleged “immature immune system”, and all of us were poor in my neighborhood, i the summer, we used to take the gum on the street that cars ran over, take the pebbles out of the gum and eat it. Now, probably the same kids I grew up with are trying to dodge invisible germs. Even if you believed the virologists, the virus can go right through the pores of your mask. The CDC told us initially not to wear a mask ( a mask that we would be constantly touching our face to arrange), and now they “changed their minds” and said wear one. If they told Americans to soak themselves in gasoline to get rid of the virus, they would.

  61. @anastasia

    I agree with the gist of your comment, Anastasia, but, man, taking the gum off the street? How poor were you? We didn’t have a lot of money, but then we just didn’t get much gum until Halloween.

    I do remember the time when sidewalks, streets, and parking lots had a lot more embedded gum and also pop tops. Anyone remember pop tops? On a hot day, they’d all be sunken part was into the asphalt.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
    , @Anon
  62. @Corvinus

    Can you repeat the reply, Mr. C?

    My browser is kind of outdated, and right now it only displays “baaaaa!”

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @Jeff Stryker
  63. @Rich

    I never had any problems but you’ve had much more exposure than I.

    What interests me are the antecedent conditions: we brought people from another culture here by force and enslaved them then humiliated them and murdered their leaders for 200 years while burning down their businesses. Now we bitch and moan that they don’t fit in.

    • Replies: @Rich
    , @Anon
  64. @Corvinus

    Thank you very much for the [Disagree], Mr. C. I don’t get many of those. It’s like a virtual feather in my cap around here!

  65. Rich says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Plenty of Whites from the British Isles were brought here by force as indentured servants. Later immigrants, Jews, Italians, Poles. etc. faced extreme poverty and hardships. Everybody’s had it rough. Just because someone grew up poor, or some of their ancestors had it rough, is no excuse for the violent criminal acts committed by Negroes. And now, they get affirmative action, welfare and business set-asides that were available to none of the immigrants who arrived here, who either got a job, or went hungry. Because they are coddled and treated like children, they act out like children, and because of their relatively low IQs, they have little self control. It’s not going to get better if they continue to be treated with kid gloves.

  66. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Nobody, at this moment, was complaining that black people do not fit in.

    We all understand the history, and many of us don’t much blame black people for any misery or anger that they have. DON’T change the goalposts.

    BUUUTTT, policemen have to do their jobs, as civil society must go on. Or maybe they don’t; it wouldn’t be terrible to just give black people a pass for a while, let them fight it out. I’m ok with that. But it is totally defensible to try to stop crime, as well. African Americans themselves ask for their cities to stop the crime.

    The whites of NYC obviously are descended from Irish and Italian immigrants and live in a multicultural mileiu from a young age, which they are proud to accept; they are not exactly KKK. Broken-windows policing was implented by the Jewish-backed Rudy Giuliani. And so, your entire whine about the racist oppressive white police mistreating black people for no good reason, just because the USA is a terrorist evil empire, doesn’t make sense from many angles.

    The more parsimonious explanation is that police are just trying to implement tough anti-crime measures, to respond to the increase in violent crime post-civil rights. This is why broken-windows policing was implemented even in Northern cities where virtually all residents are/were anti-racist liberals.

    If the above is true, the story of urban USA would be better described as a “tragedy,” and a decent person should mourn the fact that we are locked in a cycle of pain despite the fact that people are trying to be generally good. It would not be something to excitedly, proudly castigate badwhites about, and subsequently bask in your moral superiority. That you have such a personality that you would love to do the latter is the reason people here take issues with you, if you are not able to tell.

    That is what this is about; that is the goalpost that we are playing with.

  67. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:

    I wonder what Derb is doing in the dissident right or the conservative sphere anymore. I believe he has lost his right-winginess, but is stuck here by habit.

    In the past, I understand that Derb used to be a Christian? Was his cause one of religious conservatism? But that is now gonel he no longer believes. And so, conservation of the Christian institutions that contained and transmitted culture in the European world is no longer in the picture for Derb, I suppose. I don’t see him talk about it, at least.

    So perhaps Derb is conserving the white racial type? That would be a kind of biological conservation, which could be called “conservative.” That would be nice, but it probably isn’t the case, as he has miscegenated and doesn’t seem to really think the practice of miscegenation is a big deal…or something like that.

    Perhaps Derb is a kind of Nationalist type, an anti-multiculturalist, a believer in the Nation-State. But them, that doesn’t seem to be the case. He loves his diverse NY.

    Derb has said that people are about as happy as they choose to be. In other words, happiness is almost entirely up to the individual. I feel that this is contrary to conservative positions, which almost certainly entail that people need some specific culture that will guide them to live happier lives, and that allowing a kind of “liberal anarchy” will cause lower human happiness. The only other type of conservative is the religious conservative that is a dogmatic protector of their religion not for cultural or utilitarian value, but because it is “The Truth.” But that is not Derb.

    If there is nothing to conserve, and if people hold the key to their own happiness, what is wrong with liberalism? I can’t see anything. In fact, it would be superior for forcing people to give up on conservative lies regarding human needs, and forcing them to turn inwards for their own well-being.

    Derb should be a liberal…

  68. @Anon

    Yes, there’s no turning back now.

    But it’s amusing to see how the US attacks China through its minorities and how China responds.

    US Ambassador Chas. H. Freeman, Director for Chinese Affairs at the U.S. Department of State from 1979-1981:

    “I don’t see any reason why Tibet being part of China should be any more controversial than Wales being part of the United Kingdom. The periods when they were put into that position were about the same. I recall, as probably most people don’t, that the the Central Intelligence Agency, with assistance from some of China’s neighbors, put $30 million into the destabilization of Tibet and basically financed and trained the participants in the Khampa rebellion and ultimately sought to remove the Dalai Lama from Tibet–which they did. They escorted him out of Tibet to Dharamsala. ..

    “The CIA programs in Tibet, which were very effective in destabilizing it, did not succeed in Xinjiang. There were similar efforts made with the Uyghurs during the Cold War that never really got off the ground. In both cases you had religion waved as a banner in support of a desire for independence or autonomy which is, of course, is anathema to any state. I do believe that people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones applies here. I am part American Indian and those people are not here (in the US) in the numbers they once were because of severe genocidal policies on the part of the European majority”. 8/31/18
    https://supchina.com/podcast/legendary-diplomat-chas-w-freeman-jr-on-u-s-china-strategy-and-history-part-3/

    Can you imagine how the US would react if the Chinese started radicalizing American Blacks?

    • Replies: @Sean
  69. Mr. Anon says:
    @Corvinus

    Permit me to reply in your language:

    Baaa……….baaa………..baaaa.

  70. Sean says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    This whole thing is because of ridiculous ideas about pangolin scales giving a Zeppelin-like endowment. Detention camps in Xinjiang really could not be bettered as way amping up covid-19 against young people for a spectacularly lethal October second wave a la 1918. Hyper globalisation reproduced a pandemic-friendly environment that had destroyed ancient empires. Cultural adaptations were as important as herd immunity because xenophobia and walls went up, so America ought to be making China’s sexual and totalitarian insecurity an issue immediately rather than waiting for cultural and immunological natural selection to sort everything out over hundreds of years. It is to everyone’s benefit that the Chinese stop end-gaining. It is the West that understood infectious disease and explained it to the rest of the world. China should again listen.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  71. @anastasia

    “…we used to take the gum on the street that cars ran over, take the pebbles out of the gum and eat it.”

    My little sister loved chewing gum and did a similar thing with gum she found on the sidewalk when we were kids growing up in the 60’s in Southern California. I don’t remember actually seeing her do this myself but my mother mentioned it once, a decade or two later, to my sister as a sort of joke/memory of her childhood and she flipped it on my mom by angrily saying “What sort of a mother would allow their 3-year-old daughter to scrape gum off the sidewalk, stick it in her mouth, and chew it?! You should have been watching me better!”

    Even as a kid I’d be absolutely disgusted by the idea of chewing gum that I had scrape off the street but I do remember keeping my old gum for months on end and re-chewing the same wad of gum day after day. I’d save it by sticking it on the top edge of the wooden headboard of my old bed when I went to sleep at night or when I didn’t feel like chewing gum anymore. I’d have different wads from different gums: a small reddish wad of Dentine, a larger beige wad of JuicyFruit, and an even bigger pinkish wad of Bazooka-Joe bubblegum. I’d choose between the three flavourless wads as to which one I’d be chewing just for the sake of chewing gum. It’s what a kid did who liked chewing gum but didn’t have any new gum to chew – you saved the old gum and chewed it again.

    As another poster mentioned, Halloween was the one time of year where we got a lot of candy and gum. My brother and I would use pillowcases as trick-or-treat bags and we’d have a planned route to hit as many full blocks of streets as possible. After hours of trick-or-treating we’d come home and separate our own candy into different value categories where chocolate was always on top. We both particularly loved the small Nestle Crunch and Hershey bars that the most generous neighbours handed out.

  72. @Achmed E. Newman

    I had an Atlanta-born friend named Dave from Australia whose father was an air traffic controller who uprooted the family and immigrated to Australia in 1981 to escape crime and also, because Reagan broke the Air Traffic Controllers union during the strike.

    Whites have more initiative to move. We are, after all, descended from colonists and are a country of emigres.

    Blacks cannot leave as easily. They don’t really possess the initiative to do so. And as I said, the difference between a single mother of 20 and a married professional woman of 30 is vast. You cannot easily move if you don’t have a dime and your house is worth one dollar. You probably don’t have a niche skill. A white automobile PHd engineer from Detroit can work anywhere.

    As for whites playing hopscotch, I agree. Hispanics seem to want whites out of the Southwest and Los Angeles has turned into a barrio. So whites have to move to Idaho.

  73. Corvinus says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    LOL, all you are doing here is proving my point. Again, that is easy for you to say. Anyone who opposes your line of thinking, you can call them a “sheep”. You’re no different than a radical feminist in this regard. That way, you remain in your ideological bubble, warding off anyone who dares to puncture it.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  74. @Achmed E. Newman

    I suspect she(he?) might be attempting Poe’s Law.

  75. @Realist

    Someone should note that Chang’s issues come from deep seated self-hate:

    • Thanks: Realist
    • Replies: @Realist
    , @Jeff Stryker
  76. Realist says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    Someone should note that Chang’s issues come from deep seated self-hate:

    That is for sure…what a mousey little prick. He’s a momma’s boy…he never became a man.
    He is using his hatred of his Chinese heritage to castigate all of China…what a despicable asshole.

  77. @Daniel Chieh

    You make an interesting point. Few Chinese-Americans have been advocates for Communism. Jews have. But no Chinese in America ever made a public attempt to organize Communism politically in the US. They have in the Philippines, no question. The New People’s Army was formed by a Chinese-Filipino.

    But in the US their have been no Chinese-American insurgents intent on a Communist revolution in the US.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  78. @Jeff Stryker

    Few Chinese-Chinese care much for communism now.

  79. @Corvinus

    Sorry, I’m getting those same bleating noises again. Just play around with the URL – go up and down about 5 or 10 kilocycles. I’ll let you know if one of those comments ever reaches me again … ever…

  80. Anon[378] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I was just explaining pop tops to my 30 year old nephew, we had a goat that would eat them, he (the goat) also loved cigarette butts.

  81. @Sean

    It is to everyone’s benefit that the Chinese stop end-gaining?

    Given that, since 1950, it has been to everyone’s benefit that the Chinese kept end-gaining, why should they stop now?

    China is peaceful and supports and encourages peace and prosperity worldwide. What’s not to like?

    • Replies: @Sean
  82. @Achmed E. Newman

    On the subject of Paul Kersey, someone from Southeast Michigan can tell you there are worse cities than Atlanta.

    East Coast cities are strategically and commercially important. Like New York City, there is simply no chance of the Federal Government giving them up. If they did, they would lose the United States. So they simply resort to whatever they have to, like the National Guard.

    Upper Midwest cities, on the other hand, really make no difference besides Chicago.

    So if you are like my former roommate Stanley, a Polish-American from Flint who dropped out of college to start a family and mortgaged a house that was worth $100,000 in 1994 and now your house is worth zero and your neighborhood as bad as South Africa…the Federal government doesn’t care. It doesn’t care if you are trapped there. National Guard soldiers won’t save you because the UAW is no longer vital to the US economy so if the city collapses, it has no effect on the country itself.

    And then white people are trapped. As a last resort, many simply flee with everything they own in their vehicle. It is either do that, or die. Because at a certain point, the police in Detroit or Flint will take four hours to arrive. The infrastructure collapses.

    So the writer with Charles Bronson’s Death Wish character’s name should write about the fate of whites who simply find themselves trapped in Detroit or Flint or other auto manufacturing plant graveyards in the Upper Midwest.

    Eventually, the situation becomes like Haiti. White people have to leave in the clothes they stand up in like the family in Amityville Horror or they simply are killed in their houses.

    Paul Kersey admires Polish-American actors, so he should write about the plight of Polish autoworkers in Detroit of Charles Buchinsky’s generation.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  83. Sean says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    There is nothing for China not to like. They have the whole hedge fund industry with them and apart from capital from the West they are dangling access to their goldmine domestic market to get the crown jewels tech secrets of companies like Boeing. The US system is hyper capitalist with ‘Zombie’ funds, ‘Vulture’ asset stripping and similar practices are the Warren Buffett made 600% on his Chinese investment in an electrical vehicle maker that got contracts for green bus from US cities that were paid for by US government grant for clean energy. Early in the Wuhan crisis US sent China tons of masks among other protective equipment courtesy of the US taxpayer and charities. The State department paid for the fleet of jets to take the supplies, which unlike much what China has given to other countries, was top notch: worth its weight in gold and given away.

    Air Force General Rob Spaulding was dismissed as White House national security planner for championing US capital being directed toward investing in its own 5G infrastructure tech. So much for the Deep State. Chinese-made medical supplies are, it was alleged, going to France conditional upon that country adopting Huawei’s 5G technology. I doubt that story because there is simply no need for China to get nasty. Well before the epidemic, Britain had bought China’s 5G in line with the dictates of austerity and economic orthodoxy. China can hardly be given credit for playing by the rules of the West when China wins every game by those rules.

    For when thou gav’st them the rod, and putt’st down thine own breeches … for sorrow sung, That such a king should play bo-peep, And go the fools among.

  84. @Anon

    Rudy Guiliani only destroyed his own criminals, not black or Hispanic gangs. Rudy wiped out the mafia, which was powerful in the eighties. So he was effective against his own criminals-Italian-American ones-more than anyone else.

    The NYC criminals who got the longest sentences were Gotti and other mafia heads. Not black crackheads.

    Whites most affected by black crime are not going to be KKK. Because KKK are rural whites.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  85. SafeNow says:

    This thread contains so many interesting, informative, clever observations, ideas, and anecdotes. Once before, I posted my analogy of this website being like a pub. If this pub metaphor made sense before, then during these quarantine times, the pub is even more appreciated and important. One can visit with with thoughtful, well-informed, like-minded, clever essayists and commenters. Learn things, have some laughs, make a few contributions of one’s own. This comment might sound corny, but I wanted to sincerely thank the essayists, commenters, and most of all, Ron Unz.

    • Agree: JMcG
    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  86. @SafeNow

    The internet is like the wall of a public toilet. One anonymous user makes a comment, then another, then another. In the old days a gay would write on a public toilet wall, then someone else would write “DIE FAGS” and then another would reply “Macho is a social disease”.

    None of us could have this conversation in a pub, we would be in a brawl. Or at least socially discredited.

    So the internet is where people expose their real feelings.

    This is how people feel-particularly white people.

    And the non-whites here behave predictably. The blacks decry libertarian political philosophies because they want government services. The Hispanics have the verve of Antonio Banderas and will talk about how the Southwest belonged to their ancestors-as far as I’m concerned they can have it. The Indians often dislike other Indians as slimy and untrustworthy. The Chinese are obsessed with the US and half-fear the US will invade.

    The Gentiles who dislike Jews most intensely are, as always, rural whites who are unworldly. The Jews are cerebral and educated and sometimes sarcastic.

  87. @Jeff Stryker

    Paul Kersey admires Polish-American actors, so he should write about the plight of Polish autoworkers in Detroit of Charles Buchinsky’s generation.

    Paul Kersey DOES write about a lot of places and a lot of people. You should read his archives or at least read his columns regularly.

  88. @Jeff Stryker

    Whites most affected by black crime are not going to be KKK. Because KKK are rural whites.

    Jeff, please. KKK, all 18 of them, are employees of the Federal Government.

    You are often 20-25 years behind on things going on in the US, because that’s how long you’ve been gone. This time you’re about 40 years behind.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  89. Why not form a land army to pick crops by which anyone who wants a scholarship to go to college can sign up for a year, like working on a kibbutz or Peace Corps assignment in exchange for educational scholarships, and be assigned to a work camp where they will get 3 hots and a cot, wifi, and a nominal wage for pocket money?

    Participants could also obtain something equivalent to a veteran’s preference in hiring.

    I camped on farms while I worked on harvesting crops in England in my summers in the late 60’s and early 70’s and it never done me no harm.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
  90. @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t need to read a New York Irishman’s ESCAPE FROM DETROIT to know what it is like for whites who have the misfortune to be born in urban Southeast Michigan-I’m from Washtenaw County and my grandmother’s house was worth jack when we sold it. I’ve lived it. I’ve witnessed chimp outs on public transport from 300 pound female bipeds/dinosaurs. I’ve been menaced by Cholo gangs in Phoenix because I left Michigan with the clothes I stood up in as a young man.

    I’m gone for a reason.

    If whites did not have higher IQ’s many would be dead because it is only a higher earning power that allows whites to live in suburbs and exurbs that are expensive. Capitalism becomes a sort of self-preservative meritocracy…those underclass whites who cannot earn high enough wages are in harm’s way. Their children experience horrors in public schools, and I know that too.

    Another issue is geography. America has vast geographic distances. Whites can move 100 miles away. In a country the size of Switzerland we’d already have been Haiti.

    And whites really have no choices if they have no earning power. If they are poor they have to move to the sticks where there are no jobs and no social mobility.

    White Americans have limited choices. Their reality is limited by the realities of urban guerrilla warfare.

  91. Papertree says:

    Taiwan–a democracy and close US ally–mounted a COVID response that is roundly praised as the most effective in the world, yielding nearly the lowest infection rates in the world on a densely-populated island next door to its archrival, China. Thousands regularly travel between China and Taiwan, and the outbreak happened on the eve of the Lunar New Year in January. Still, they were able to contain the virus–without shutting cities down.

    Not only that, Taiwan employed what these Stanford scientists called a “Big Data” approach, linking government agencies to help track hotspots. It’s outlined in this JAMA report: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762689 .

    Sound intrusive, Big Brother-esque? Hardly. It just sounds effective. Foreign Policy magazine points out that Taiwan, as a democracy, deals with rampant disinformation and misinformation in its press and on the internet. You might be familiar with those Taiwanese fake news stories that surfaced on the Net over a decade ago that were sometimes featured on Conan O’Brien. People make stuff up just as they do in the U.S. But FP says that the difference is, Taiwan’s government puts out quality information that people can count on to figure out what to do. In word, they can have their cake and eat it too: a messy, noisy democracy and an effective, centralized response.

    Here’s the perspective of a Westerner, who points out that life carries on as usual.
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/familyhealth/coronavirus-in-taiwan-there-is-no-need-for-a-lockdown-because-everyone-is-playing-their-part/ar-BB11sNmc

  92. @The Alarmist

    Corona-Chan did not get a sufficient chance to cull a large swath of the “That’s not who we are” crowd

    It was never, ever going to do that anyhow: SARS-nCoV is a relatively* age-agnostic virus; on the other hand, COVID19 prefers its victims old, sickly and indoors.

    The most likely thing was that the Spring Break crowd would go home and infect elderly people within 1 degree of Kevin Bacon.

    * kinda-sorta because the proportion of known cases in ‘central’ adult age groups (20-49) is greater than their share of the population.

    For example, in Australia, the 20-49 age group makes up 28.3% of the population, but 37.4% of total known cases. Other age groups are simply not doing their share.

    Within 20-49s, it’s the young adults who are most significantly over-represented:
     • population share: 14.0%
     • covid19 case share: 21.6%

    That shouldn’t be surprising: 20-29 year olds have the greatest range of close contact with strangers.

    They’re also the fittest adult group, and the one with the fewest relevant underlying conditions (except obesity and type II diabetes).

    Speaking of fat diabetics… the 20-29 over-prevalence casts doubt on those as ‘relevant’: the ‘social’ 20-29s are less likely to be the fat diabetics, who mostly sit in their rooms and cry while gorging themselves on cakes – unless they’re ‘face-pretty’, in which case they get tattoos and dye their hair pink (sad to watch).

  93. @Jonathan Mason

    Why should taxpayers – who buy the products being produced – pay twice for the labour that picks the crops? (once as part of the product price; later as the debt from non-meritocratic scholarships).

    It’s just a subsidy to firms who currently prefer to employ people willing to work at the wage rate on offer in the industry.

    I’m fine with sending the young to works camps though.

    We could put an inspirational sign over the front gate. “Labour Is Liberating” or something to that effect.

    Veteran’s preference in hiring‘ – makes sense if you want thugs (e.g., pigs, prison guards, organised crime gangs)… when a workforce over-endowed with suicidal wife-beating child-abusing drunks with PTSD, is a feature not a bug. (That’s not saying that they are all, all those things… but the ones who really want to be cops/guards are more likely to be).

    Organised crime gangs insert their people into the military – especially Army and Marines – as a training strategy: gang membership in the military is more than 50× greater than in the GenPop. (Organised crime also targets PDs: cops who are ‘cleanskin’ gang members – no gang-related tattoos, no criminal record – are common in Australia).

  94. @Frederick V. Reed

    And your straw-hombres are equally tedious, Kiko.

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