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Where Did the Covid Come from? Inquiring Minds Want to Know!
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Earlier by Ann Coulter: “I Will Not Be Scienced”—Experts Wrong, Covid Could Have Come From Wuhan Lab After All

I have been enthusiastically promoting Nicholas Wade’s long article on the origins of the COVID virus.

Wade compares the two common theories: (a) the “wet market” theory, that the virus jumped from bats, or from bats via some intermediate host, to humans at a live-animal market in Wuhan, China, and (b) the “lab escape” theory, that the virus originated in a lab, also in Wuhan, doing research into viruses.

Wade allows that we can’t say dispositively which theory is correct; but by a judicious and thoroughly-researched sifting of the facts we do know, he leaves his reader thinking that the lab escape theory is the more probable one.

I’ll confess some partiality here. I’m a major Wade fan. I read his articles in the New York Times for years, and I’ve reviewed at least three of his books, including his 2014 race-realist book A Troublesome Inheritance. I have some slight personal acquaintance with him, too; and yes, like me he’s an immigrant from Britain.

Well, this is a brilliant piece of science journalism; and I speak as a person who’s been reading science journalism since the Eisenhower administration. Wade might be wrong on the balance of probabilities—and the article where I found it, at the website of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, has a good argumentative comment thread—but for the sifting of facts and the weighing of probabilities, this piece is a classic. [The origin of COVID: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan? by Nicholas Wade, Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, May 5, 2021]

That sifting, that weighing, that arguing, is science at its best. It doesn’t come easily to human beings. To quote myself

Scientific objectivity is a freakish, unnatural, and unpopular mode of thought, restricted to small cliques whom the generality of citizens regard with dislike and mistrust. There is probably a sizable segment in any population that believes scientists should be rounded up and killed.

We of that freakish brotherhood just turn away wearily when we hear some fool politician or pundit with a degree in Media Studies tell us to “follow the science!” Politics and political punditry are the last places to go to for scientific understanding. You need a guide who understands how long and grueling the path to scientific certainty is.

Nicholas Wade quotes Francis Bacon, grandfather of the Scientific Revolution, quote: “Truth is the daughter not of authority but time.” End quote. We don’t believe that the Earth goes round the Sun because Copernicus said so, although he did, or because Galileo agreed with him, although he did. We believe it because we have been persuaded by thousands of pieces of evidence accumulated over hundreds of years by legions of observers sifting, weighing, and arguing.

ORDER IT NOW

I should say, however, that prior to Wade’s article, the most striking piece I’d read on the origins of COVID was the one by Ron Unz at his own website in March this year, arguing a third possible origin for COVID. This is (c) the “American biowarfare” theory, that the virus was developed in our own labs then deliberately let loose in China by one of our intelligence agencies.

Ron’s article is almost as long as Nicholas Wade’s, and also comes with an argumentative comment thread—975 comments when I looked just now. There are of course all sorts of objections you can raise against it, although it’s highly probable your objection has already been posed in one of those 975.

What do I think of Ron’s theory? I wouldn’t rule it out, given the lawlessness and deep stupidity of our intelligence agencies. For sure, Ron makes as good a case for it as can be made.

And it is kind of … strange that other than China’s immediate neighbors, the second country to be seriously hit by COVID was Iran, bête noire of the neocons who run those agencies. Several senior Iranian officials died of COVID. Hmm.

However, I’m temperamentally inclined to believe that, while conspiracies and plots are glamorous, dramatic, and exciting to contemplate, carelessness and error are much bigger factors in human affairs. On those grounds, and having seen up close how things are done in China, I favor the lab escape theory as most probable.

Will Francis Bacon’s principle be vindicated? With the passing of enough time, shall we one day we may know the truth of the matter? I won’t be holding my breath. To either verify or decisively eliminate the lab-escape hypothesis, for example, we’d need to have a good look at the records of the Wuhan lab in late 2019 and early 2020, and have unsupervised interviews with relevant employees.

In communist China, that won’t happen. Those records have long since been reduced to their component molecules and the ashes dumped in the Mariana Trench; those employees, in the unlikely event they survived their interrogations by the secret police, are now employed at stone quarries on the Qinghai Plateau.

It’s coming up to fifty years ago since Lin Biao, who had been Mao Tse-tung’s right-hand man, disappeared from the scene and was declared to have been a counter-revolutionary traitor. Was he? Did he really die while trying to flee China? Why was he trying to flee? After fifty years, scholars are still arguing.

If the ChiCom regime collapses, we may get to learn something new about the origin of COVID. Unfortunately there are no signs of that happening. Right now, we just don’t know.

This topic has, though, generated some good deep public debate: not from the clown show of our national politics, of course, which is not capable of engaging with anything deeper than a kiddie pool, but from smart, sane, thoughtful inquirers like Nicholas Wade and Ron Unz. Thanks to them both for their work.

(Republished from VDare by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Hey John, in case you missed it, the “Spanish Flu” was identified in Spain, because Spain was a non-combatant in WWI. It started in Fort Riley, Kansas from a vaccine gone wrong. It was rampant during 1918 before the war ended, but admitting it existed would have hurt the “war effort”. The fact that there are many corona virus patents (bio-weapons) in the US, including one developed using bats at UNC Chapel Hill, is apparently irrelevant. Fort Detrick, where they were trying to force the Ebola virus into the human genome, being shut down by the CDC for massive safety violations in 2019 is certainly nothing to investigate, because the military said nothing escaped.
    I know people that work in a Level 4 lab. While it is not impossible for something to escape with safety violations, they would have to be Fort Detrick level violations for that to happen, not minor infractions which were documented at Wuhan. Along with bio-weapons labs in every US state, the military has them world wide, including countries close to China.
    Yeah John, I’m a conspiracy nut. I think that somebody who guarantees a pandemic during Trump’s term and holds a conference to plan how to manage a pandemic just before it begins, is likely up to no good. I think that Trump, with all of his faults, telling the Davos crowd to get stuffed, would be a reason for the owners to take him down a peg or two. I also think that the panic of all of the so-called health authorities over a “disease” that has an Infection Mortality Rate of .01-.05% was hyped to push the “mail in voting” scam, at the same time the Davos crowd was going to crush small businesses and destroy economies while rolling out “essential” (dangerous) 5G to make it easier to spy on us, isn’t a co-incidence. Now, what if there isn’t a virus at all?

  2. It came from a lab where they created a virus with “gain of function,” because it simply makes sense to deliberately make a virus more contagious than it was to begin with! (Lord Fauci funded it)

    Then, the shithead elite loosed the virus to justify an effort to impose control protocols on all of humanity. (Gates had a “simulation” five months prior to the pandemic….total coincidence!)

    The clips that came out of China initially were obviously staged….people dropping in the streets and convulsing…..total HORSESHIT. Notice that those clips have disappeared.

    NWO/Great Reset abuse of humanity by control freak pieces of shit.

  3. utu says:

    Nicholas Wade profusely acknowledges Yuri Deigin’s work:

    Yuri Deigin: Lab-Made? SARS-CoV-2 Genealogy Through the Lens of Gain-of-Function Research (Apr 22, 2020)
    https://yurideigin.medium.com/lab-made-cov2-genealogy-through-the-lens-of-gain-of-function-research-f96dd7413748

    Then there is:

    Nerd Has Power: RaTG13 – the undeniable evidence that the Wuhan coronavirus is man-made (May. 02, 2020)
    https://gnews.org/192144/
    https://nerdhaspower.weebly.com/ratg13-is-fake.html

    And:

    Yan, Li-Meng: Unusual Features of the SARS-CoV-2 Genome Suggesting Sophisticated Laboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route (Sept 2020)
    https://zenodo.org/record/4028830#.YKCH-S2ZPq0

    Yan, Li-Meng paper was trashed by three reviewers:
    https://rapidreviewscovid19.mitpress.mit.edu/pub/78we86rp/release/2
    ___________________

    The blogger Yuri Deigin more recently began to publish on Covid more formal papers (see Google Scholar).

  4. mijj says:

    ignoring evidence which fails to support current propaganda targets only convinces those who need their bias rationalised.

    Does actual material evidence exist that covid existed outside China before it was first detected there? .. Yup! .. if that evidence is ignored or not sought, it’s because it doesn’t fulfil the agenda.

    A huge anti-China propaganda operation is underway. Obviously. The intensity reflects the degree of fear felt by our Feudal masters. All the propaganda will succeed in achieving is to cripple the Empire economies in order to protect the power of our lords.

    The actual intended victim of the anti-China propaganda isn’t China, it’s we, the people.

    • Agree: Realist, Mary Marianne
    • Replies: @AndrewR
  5. I read the Nicholas Wade paper, and readers here ought to know that it’s a pretty easy one to Wade through, maybe 2 hours if you spend extra time thinking over his 4 points that argue for a lab release vs. a natural progression.

    I agree with you that the probability of this virus coming from the Wuhan lab is greater than that of Ron Unz’s Ft. Detrick theory being the case. However, that’s not my main argument with the concentration on the origin of the COVID-19. Whether planned or not, the year-long (and counting) PanicFest that has been going on, with its use by governments all around the world to implement more Police Statism (the case here) or Orwellianism (in China) is the BIG story. The origin is related to that, of course.

    The virus itself pales in comparison to the BIG PICTURE of what is going on politically in the world now.

  6. If the ChiCom regime collapses, we may get to learn something new about the origin of COVID. Unfortunately there are no signs of that happening. Right now, we just don’t know.

    Why is this treated as a mystery?

    We don’t yet know its birthplace, but the CDC says it was endemic in the USA in 2019, before it reached China.

    The details are in “Serologic testing of U.S. blood donations to identify SARS-CoV-2-reactive antibodies: December 2019-January 2020,” by Sridhar V Basavaraju, MD, et al. https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1785/6012472

    4-6 million Americans had been infected by December, 2019 and, based on a death doubling interval of 139 days and our peak death month, January, 2021, our first case occurred in 2015.

  7. Ron Unz says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I agree with you that the probability of this virus coming from the Wuhan lab is greater than that of Ron Unz’s Ft. Detrick theory being the case.

    Just to clarify things, I see ZERO evidence that Covid-19 came from Ft. Detrick, and I’ve never claimed otherwise. I don’t think I’ve ever once mentioned that possibility in any of my numerous articles, including the most recent one:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-truth-and-the-whole-truth-on-the-origins-of-covid-19/

    The only people I’ve seen promoting the Ft. Detrick Hypothesis have been incompetent pro-China propagandists, but I don’t fall into that category. It’s certainly *possible* that Covid-19 came from Ft. Detrick, but it could have come from any other biolab, of which I think there are many dozens.

    Incidentally, a perfect example of what I mean by a totally incompetent pro-China propagandist is Godfree Roberts, who just posted a comment as I was finishing mine. He claims:

    4-6 million Americans had been infected by December, 2019 and, based on a death doubling interval of 139 days and our peak death month, January, 2021, our first case occurred in 2015.

    So our own Covid-19 epidemic actually began in 2015, with many millions of Americans having already been infected before the Wuhan outbreak became apparent, but absolutely nobody in America had ever noticed anything.

    if Roberts isn’t currently being paid by Steve Bannon, he should immediately apply for a stipend…

  8. Youtube is backing down and allowed Jimmy Dore to expose the truth. In short, Dr. Fauci is to blame:

    • Replies: @TheTrumanShow
  9. Voltarde says:

    There’s another aspect to this story that is rarely remarked upon. There’s an intellectual hierarchy in science, and microbiologists and virologists are at the bottom of it. In the traditional pure sciences (excluding applied sciences), in terms of population measures of intelligence, for the following disciplines we have something like:

    Mathematicians ~ Physicists >> Chemists >> Neuroscientists > Geneticists > Immunologists >> Biologists > Microbiologists

    Most career opportunities for microbiologists are in high-volume clinical laboratories, where production and quality control are more important than innovation, and where diagnostic assays are standardized and wherever possible automated. Research laboratories are very different.

    A related aspect is that so-called “principal investigators” (PI) in research laboratories rarely if ever perform experiments. Their junior colleagues do. Here the intellectual quality of personnel can be even more suspect: microbiology lab technicians have no prospects of career advancement, so their motivation for fully understanding their experiments is low.

    Iatrogenic infections are very common in health care facilities. These transmission events are something that health care providers have a financial incentive to deny, avoid taking responsibility for, and hence avoid tracing and finding their source (which it is now possible to do using nucleotide sequencing). Given the very close relationship between health care providers and affiliated academic or government research laboratories, a similar reluctance to admit and accept responsibility for research iatrogenic infections is likely.

  10. Trinity says:

    Where I live I rarely see anybody wearing a mask. Walmart? No lie, I went there today and I would guess that only 15% of the customers were wearing masks. Probably 1% of those aged 30 and younger, 30-65 would have made up maybe 5% and the rest of the those wearing face diapers were older than 65. I even saw some old-timers not wearing masks, good for them. I think people are wising up, but most people in my neck of the woods never really fell for the bullshit in the first place.

    Do I think there is a virus? Well probably but it certainly is no worse than the regular flu. Do I believe in the vaccine? Sure. ( SARC.) You take that vaccine you need your head examined. Look for TPTB to try to put something on your drivers license denoting you have received the vaccine or some sort of card signifying you have been vaccinated. The freaks claim you shouldn’t have to show your driver license or some other sort of identification to vote but now these mentally ill morons are contradicting themselves and pushing for people to have proof of the vaccination.

    This is only the beginning and IF you don’t stop them dead in their tracks they will only push further. This vaccine has already caused deaths and who knows of the side effects down the road. The elderly, the alleged most vulnerable to the “deadly virus” appear to be the ones that are dying from the vaccine, go figure. Shit, IF you are 85 years old, what in the hell do you care if you catch the virus or not. The elderly are probably more likely to die from the vaccine than covid. One thing certain, at 85 you probably only have a few more years left anyhow so why bother with the shot.

    Who created the virus? Guess? I know I have. haha.

  11. Biff says:

    An opinion piece without any hard data to support any of the theories, but a nice read as it is. Nevertheless, detective class 101 would be looking at ‘motive and means’ as close as the biological science of the virus itself. Add in circumstantial evidence of the timeline of events, and things begin to ebb in the direction of Run Unz’s theory than just a happenstance lab leak.

    Would a lab leak effect so many on a global scale so quickly, or is seeding populations with a virus the only way to spread this kind of pandemic as fast as it did?

    ??

  12. @Curmudgeon

    And there is this, that I just came across tonight.



    Video Link

    It doesn’t look fake.

    I’m going to ask if I can try applying a magnet to the arms of a couple people I know who got jabbed when I see them this week. If the magnetism is real, could the fervent push to roll-out 5G figure into those “vaccines” somehow?

  13. Fauci was the mastermind for the creation of this virus. He’s a maniacal sociopath. If we are fortunate, and there’s little chance of that, he will be put on trial, convicted and swiftly executed. Also, every blood relative of Fauci should be jailed for 30 years. That’s only fair, given the horror this monster unleashed on the planet.

    Think of the devastation this man initiated. Deaths, suffering, suicides, economic collapse. No single human being has ever created the suffering that Fauci unleashed.

    • Replies: @tyrone
  14. None of you even thought of the real answer. Which is that it is both a biowarfare attack and a lame clumsy fuck-up. They just thought they’d get China and Iran, but they really didn’t know how the virus worked, and so, when they found out, they panicked.

    Why else the worldwide shut-downs? I find it highly unlikely that all the world’s leaders agreed to pull the wool over everybody’s eyes, together, all at once, no one demurring. And I find it highly unlikely that the virus first targeted exactly who our alphabets wanted targeted, just by accident.

    On the other hand, they bungled there insidious, sly science fiction plan. Which is why all the governments in the world lost their minds. Because they know damn well it’s biowarfare, but they have no idea how bad it’s going to be.

    And I say “going to be,” because everything I here suggests it is never going away. No-one seems to think about internal organ damage, all they do is point out the low death statistics, as if death is the only deleterious outcome of a virus. I know a woman whose hair fell out in 1918. Not life-threatening. She didn’t die. But it certainly affected her. Now what if the virus causes heart swelling. In just about anybody. No death. Just a swollen heart. Where are your swollen heart statistics?

    To repeat: the world’s governments, who know the truth, are freaking out because they know for a fact that the US biowarfare “specialists” have created a monster they can’t control. They know the truth–but they don’t know what to do about it, given that the biological weapon’s creators don’t know what they have wrought. Ergo–panic!

  15. barr says:
    @Robert Dolan

    “The clips that came out of China initially were obviously staged….people dropping in the streets and convulsing…..total HORSESHIT. Notice that those clips have disap”
    Thanks forrefreshing those memories. How did we forget these? There was also bat soup lady
    that was seen by millions .

    Meanehile there was only one country and one military base that perfected and used the bioweapon on its own people – the anthrax spore in 2001.

  16. It came from a lab.

    But why must it come from a Chinese lab?

    USA vs China, who has the most biowarfare labs?

    Omission is guilt.

    • Replies: @Jeff Davis
  17. Did China Merely Weaponize Standard C-19 Treatment?
    By Wayne Lusvardi – UNPUBLISHED ARTICLE

    [MORE]

    When the breakout of the coronavirus occurred in the US in January 2020, doctors in New York City hospitals started to appear in self-made videos questioning the accepted medical treatment protocol (see video here). Where did this treatment protocol come from?

    Documentation is provided in a video by Dr. Claus Kohnlein (coneline) of Kiel, Germany on March 20. Kohnlein is the author of the prophetic 2007 book Virus Mania: How the Medical Industry Invents Epidemics Making Billion Dollar Profits at Our Expense. He is critical of the accepted notion that SARS Coronavirus, AIDS, Asian Flu, Hepatitis, Polio and Cervical Cancer are caused by a virus. Moreover, Kohnlein says that Big Pharma manufactures fake virus epidemics to reap mega billions with the help of Big Government in consort with medical and financial oligarchs.

    In the video Dr. Kohnlein singles out a case study of a 50-year old Chinese coronavirus patient published in the February 18, 2020 issue of authoritative The Lancet entitled “Pathological Finding of COID-19 Associated with Acute Respiratory Syndrome”. The 18 authors of the article are all associated with Wuhan University in China, where the coronavirus is suspected of starting.

    Dr. Kohnlein points out that the model treatments for coronavirus prescribed in the article are “toxic” and suppress the immune system, especially the application of cortisone and interferons which reduce inflammation but “stops the defense mechanism”. It is Kohnlein’s opinion that this treatment protocol is “malpractice”. Kohnlein says what is considered “coronavirus” is just this year’s version of “Influenza A”, which mutates into a novel version every year.

    Use of cortisone is prevalent in Italian hospitals (see “Use of Corticosteroids in Coronavirus Disease 2019 Pneumonia”, Frontiers in Medicine, April 24, 2020). There are indications that C-19 patients have been treated with steroids in New York (here, here, here, here, here, here). Sixteen of the 76 treatment regimens (21%) used to treat coronavirus prescribe interferons.

    Kohnlein further states:

    “When I see people cringe when someone near them sneezes or coughs, I wonder how long it will take them to find out that they can’t catch it – no matter what it is. The only way to catch a disease is to develop it themselves by wrong eating, drinking smoking or doing some other things which cause internal poisoning and lowered vitality”.

    In the so-called 1918 Spanish Flu, Kohnlein says it was stress from war, malnourishment, prior damage to human airways from antiseptics, overtreatment with chloroform and aspirin, bacterial and fungus infections and lethal vaccinations that initially didn’t work so toxic boosters were added, that killed people. He asserts that it wasn’t influenza that was deadly but “actually, the doctors killed them with their crude and deadly treatments and drugs”. However, “drugless doctors” using rest, water cures, baths, fasting and natural foods resulted in “100% healings” in non-medical “restoriums”.

    Kohnlein raises the question if China did not positively manufacture and weaponize the so-called Coronavirus, did it foment fear of an epidemic? China may or may not have concocted and spread the virus, but all the Chinese had to do was weaponize the standard of treatment for the Coronavirus.

    Kohnlein says the Spanish Flu was “one of the worst pandemics to ever afflict the earth, (and) was simply virtually erased from newspapers, magazines, books and society’s collective memory” because it “presented a very personal catastrophe for physicians and because although they were given all the money and material resources in their world to fight the alleged flu, they were unsuccessful in preventing the disaster”.

    Samuel Johnson said most people do not get their opinions by reasoning but they catch them by social contagion. Similarly, Etienne de Harven, MD, in the forward to Kohnlein’s book writes: “Virus mania is a social disease of our highly developed society. To cure it will require conquering fear, fear being the most-deadly contagious virus, most efficiently transmitted by the media.” But deep state public education cannot be counted on to dispel such fear but fan it.

    Likewise, disease contagion policies of almost all states are not based on reason but on creating a public mania about imaginary viruses that result in bigger government at the same time vastly enriching giant drug companies, resulting in mass deaths. To Kohnlein, government and drug companies claim success in preventing further deaths by vaccinations when they have merely inoculated people with healthy immune systems who are not susceptible to an imaginary disease in the first place.

    Pres. Trump has stated he is defunding the World Health Organization (WHO) due to its negligence and complicity in creating the Coronavirus Panic. However, unknown to Trump many state public health departments are still using the totalitarian Pandemic Influenza Preparedness and Response Plan of the World Health Organization (WHO) put into place in 2006 by the Obama White House Homeland Security Council without any approval by their legislatures.

    Perhaps Kohnlein’s book can offer an alternative to those states seeking to provide their citizens with health policies that work instead of scare and kill. Visiting nurses (not virus tracers) could do better than self -serving government hospitals, big pharmaceutical companies and opportunistic states.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  18. Well, this is a brilliant piece of science journalism; and I speak as a person who’s been reading science journalism since the Eisenhower administration.

    Yet Mr. Derbyshire in a column entitled

    Where Did the Covid Come from? Inquiring Minds Want to Know!

    fails to acknowledge that the article beginning with its title

    The origin of COVID: Did people or nature open Pandora’s box at Wuhan?

    forecloses that very question.

    Well, he may not even have noticed. Too busy rushing out more ChinaDidIt to signal fealty to his adopted Uncle Sam.

    Dissident Right, Inc.

  19. the question is: why are those “gain of function” studies done anyway? Obviously they come with a certain risk. The only good reason to do it is so develop better answers to such viruses, such as new vaccines or new drugs. Yet the best vaccines (mRNA) have been developed completely independent from such studies and good drugs have not yet been developed at all. The only really working drugs seems to be cortisone, this has also nothing to do with those studies in the lab. So all in all: high risk, no reward. I hope they from it and stop such research.

  20. Vidi says:
    @Ron Unz

    4-6 million Americans had been infected by December, 2019 and, based on a death doubling interval of 139 days and our peak death month, January, 2021, our first case occurred in 2015.

    So our own Covid-19 epidemic actually began in 2015, with many millions of Americans having already been infected before the Wuhan outbreak became apparent, but absolutely nobody in America had ever noticed anything.

    Did you see the graph in Godfree Roberts’ comment (link) ?

    He assumed a death-doubling interval of 139 days. If Covid-19’s first fatality occurred in 2015, then the number of deaths from the virus did not hit the thousands until mid-2019. And yes, that indeed was when people started noticing something strange going on in the US, such as the deaths in Greenspring Retirement Community near Ft. Detrick, and the ones attributed to vaping (both in middle-2019).

    The middle-2019 deaths are documented facts. And whether the “ground glass lungs” in the vaping deaths were caused by Covid-19 is an open question, not some communist propaganda.

    • Agree: Mary Marianne
    • Replies: @Anon62
  21. @Ron Unz

    I feel a conspiracy theory coming on. Ask yourself UR threadster… I mean, dig deep and seriously ask yourself … what nefarious purpose does Ron Unz have in publishing Godfree Roberts?😎

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  22. GMC says:

    The Big Elephants in the room next to the Globalist Big Pharma, has been attacking people and countries, killing millions, but no one can See it ? And it’s right in front of you – today – in what was once Palestine. 500 + Bioweapons labs around the world, 80 +military bases around the world , but some 2 bit writer says either 2 Chinamen were having bat soup in China , and that started a world epidemic , whin a month – lol or it came from a Chinese lab , that was staffed with dozens of international lab Rats – another LOL
    Do bears shit in the woods ? Yep. Do the NWO armies spread death, destruction, misery and bio Weaponized Viruses and Poisonist Gaz ? No – Not according to the USA, their allies, their stupid writers and their media. They spread Democracy only. Keep your passport handy.

    • Agree: acementhead
    • Replies: @annamaria
    , @Amon
  23. John, be careful. You might earn a reputation beyond your friends for being sensible and careful with facts😊

  24. @Curmudgeon

    Again you are on it.But go farther,deeper,larger and
    even bigger.It’s not just “taking Trump down a peg”
    It’s another arrow in the arsenal to derail the”Trump Train”
    They had to throw down everything,and they did.
    Consequences be damned.Now they own it…
    All in,only works for so long.
    The missles are starting to fly.
    Let’s hope it stays contained in the M.E.,Eastern Europe
    and most of Africa.Though,not likely,we can hope…

  25. robwin says:

    It seems to me the most telling piece of evidence it came from Wuhan is the fact the CCP refused to cooperate with anyone who tried to seriously investigate the Wuhan facility. Or am I now going to be told that is not true, but is merely negative propaganda from the anti-China crowd?

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @cycologist
  26. What difference does it make where the COVID come from?

    You climb all over hell looking for a handle, “first, men, we’ll find out where it came from”, that allows you to categorize and reduce the size of your fear, and say “Yes, men, once we find out where they live we’ll laugh as we push them off the stage crying in a baby carriage.”

    This is only the beginning of FUCKED and there is no turning back. Tragically accompanied by the hue and cry of the info warriors who on one hand preach salvation comes from man, while on the other, refuse to admit that even if they knew where to find the “bad guys” the powers of this world would laugh. A lot of good a handle is going to do them upon finding nothing attached to it, including their own sanity.

    The first level of cowards are what they are, and they should be pitied. That is, those who actually know what’s up, yet refuse to act. However, the second level of coward involves hiding behind wordy useless sermons intended to prevent and conceal the confession of an unknowable battleground, and these cowards are the worst kind of enemy who pander to mankinds’ inherent weakness, namely his belief in saving himself despite knowing that all men betray.

    Which way did they go, George?

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  27. Rahan says:

    If the ChiCom regime collapses, we may get to learn something new about the origin of COVID. Unfortunately there are no signs of that happening.

    Sooner or later this caviler approach to other people’s societies — “hopefully, when you guys collapse and maybe morph into something I like more…” — is going to provoke a real backlash, with people starting to mirror the same sentiment, and conduct their state level acts in the same manner.

    The neocon formula of: “We’re only negotiating with you and shaking your hand while we’re trying to find a way to destroy you because you don’t deserve to exist if you don’t do what we want” is a monstrous formula which became an implied guiding principle from the late 1990s onward, and is based on absolutely megalomaniac levels of hubris.

    One can see, in hindsight, both Putin and later Erdogan incredulously, step by step, admitting to themselves that this is indeed who they are dealing with. Now China has began to accept the same thing. Europe has yet to learn. Maybe Italy or France will be the first to feel out the edges of the allowed, before feeling the whip.

    The neocon approach is not OK. Neocons are the right wing of globohomo, and no less destructive than the liberast left wing of globohomo, or the center deep state. Just like one needs to deprogram oneself from the “leftwing” globohomo programing, one needs to also shake off the “rightwing” globohomo programing.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
  28. Wally says:
    @Robert Dolan

    said: “Lord Fauci funded it”

    Indeed he did.

    recommended:

    Dr. Fauci’s Entire Career and Reputation On The Line:
    https://principia-scientific.com/dr-faucis-entire-career-and-reputation-on-the-line/

    A bombshell investigative report from Fox News host Steve Hilton has shed all-new light on the origins of Covid-19, and according to the report, it has nothing to do with bat soup and everything to do with Dr. Fauci :
    https://video.foxnews.com/v/6225847837001#sp=show-clips

  29. Rahan says:
    @Ron Unz

    So our own Covid-19 epidemic actually began in 2015, with many millions of Americans having already been infected before the Wuhan outbreak became apparent, but absolutely nobody in America had ever noticed anything.

    This does of course sound a bit too much.

    That being said, the current post-Western situation of the USA makes it a likely character in various grimy cyberpunk scenarios which would have seemed impossible just “yesterday” in the historical long-term.

    1) Does it have tens of millions of illegal immigrants with their own bubble societies? Yes
    2) Was it letting in millions of people from places rife with “exotic diseases” and “eradicated conditions”? Yes. Was this process well managed and including serious health filtering and examination? No.
    3) Has US healthcare become a parasitical institutional growth that feeds off problems instead of solving them? Yes.
    4) Have most US institutions become a) solipsistic, and b) self-maintaining cancerous growths? Yes.
    5) Has the US media and academia decoupled from the notion of “virtue=truth” and embraced instead a model of the world in which “virtue” and “truth” are frequently opposites and you have to choose one or the other? Yes. Today’s “free media” does not equal “truth” anymore, but rather “they could choose to tell the truth if they wanted to”.
    6) Have megacorps began shaping the informational field and the functioning of society itself? Yes.
    7) Does the US have third-world homeless camps and ghettos? Yes.

    Therefore, while back in say 1995 it would have been pretty improbable for America to contain in itself huge white spots, invisible to institutions, the media, academia, scientists, and society in general, today it is unfortunately covered in such white spots, blind spots, and they are growing faster and faster.

    America is an organism which used to have pretty terrifically organized interaction between its “brain” and its “nervous system” and its “sense organs”, but that peak has passed. Maybe, hopefully, it can be reclaimed. But this is not where America is now. Little by little, America retreated into solipsism and dysfunction, first slowly, slowly, then fast. This can and does lead to real life changes.

    Is it possible for novel diseases to percolate in the blind spots of today’s America? In the grimy third world blind spots of today’s America? It is not very probable for the answer to be “no”.

    Is it probable that the America of today has acquired in her blind spots of filth and illness potential generators of epidemics on par with Asian wet markets and African slums? Well, yeah. Is it probable that with badly controlled immigration this combines with “imported strains developed elsewhere”? Also yeah.

    Is it possible that’s today’s scientists and doctors in America’s healthcare to be parts of a system so badly functioning, so corrupt and solipsistic, that they’d miss anything which starts messing with the lungs and vascular system of hundreds of thousands of junkies, fatsos, disease-ridden illegal aliens, and vaping hipsters? It’s possible.

    None of this means that the current viral pneumonia pandemic did not originate in Wuhan, maybe it did. This post is simply a reminder that yes, in today’s America, with its huge, growing blind spots which “the central nervous system” can no longer access, all sorts of developments are possible, including ugly developments.

    How difficult it was to determine what the “I can’t breathe” black chap died from, because he was already at death’s door from fifty different angles. What happens when millions of people, especially in the blind spots of society, all carry in themselves ten reasons to drop dead right now. Can a new viral or bacterial epidemic hide like this for a while, shielded from inquiring eyes by a dozen more probable causes of death?

    Yes. Especially if the actual death rate doesn’t lead to huge spikes of overall registered mortality, and kills only the “dry wood” of the population. When you allow your society to be dismantled and taken over by institutional predators and parasites, on the primitive street level actual predators (thugs) and actual parasites (microroganic/viral) will also enter into their own.

    You roll back modernity beyond a certain level, the “postmodernity” kind of becomes a neo-medieval thing, with everything that entails.

  30. Alfred says:

    Much more important than the origins of this alleged virus is where we are actually being taken.

    The probe that is being placed high into the nasal cavity for the fake PCR test is how they are introducing harmful substances and tracking chips.

    It seems that we have been barking up the wrong tree. Sorry folks. This is much worse than I ever imagined. 🙁

    Morgellons Moving Nanotech Fibers Are In The Covid-19 Test Swabs!



    Video Link

    • Thanks: GMC
    • Replies: @Steven80
  31. (a) the “wet market” theory, that the virus jumped from bats, or from bats via some intermediate host, to humans at a live-animal market in Wuhan, China, and (b) the “lab escape” theory, that the virus originated in a lab, also in Wuhan, doing research into viruses.

    Try (c) for CIA or (d) for DoD. It would be just like the professional scoundrels of the Tranny Empire to deliberately release a bioweapon during the military games held in Wuhan in 2019. They would figure that thanks to the superior governance provided by “democracy”—which is to say, themselves—the virus would hardly affect Trannyland while devastating China. Needless to say, the opposite happened.

  32. Dumbo says:

    The virus did not “escape”… It was created and released on purpose. The whole thing was so obviously planned in advance that you have to be a fool not to see it… It’s like the Anthrax letter at the time of 911, or 911 itself. None of those official stories make sense.

    But, it was not as Mr. Unz says, a “bioweapon” against China and Iran. China was probably on it from the start. Like 911 and other “terrorist attacks” at the time, the real intention was to change legislation, increase control, change people minds and impose an authoritarian model of living that they wouldn’t be able to impose another way.

    It’s not the “flu”. It’s not a normal, natural disease.

    If the ChiCom regime collapses,

    What about the AmeriCorp regime? When it will collapse? That’s much worse than China, which this articulist married to a Chinese woman disparages as some kind of “commie” country when it’s not the 60s anymore. China today has a model I don’t like, and has many problems, but communism isn’t one of them.

    • Agree: idrankwhat
  33. Neoconned says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron, you personally responded to me on this topic last year and told me…..using statistical math that the most likely scenario was that it was spread by American military athletes at the Wuhan military games event.

    Even on here that thesis has been nowhere to be seen.

    Is there new evidence? Do you still stand by this idea?

    • Agree: Pop Warner
  34. Amon says:

    This article makes little sense. The writer jumps from subject to subject without actually providing much info beyond “Muh fells” and “Muh faith” arguments while conveniently excluding any form of evidence and linking to a New York Times writer.

    Yeah, a guy working at that toilet rag of a newspaper that is just another CIA outlet for deep state propaganda really makes me view this mumble jumble seriously.

    Reminds me a lot of the typical evolution news articles where they brag about a dozen more scientist joining creationists in rejecting evolution while failing to provide any names, scientific fields and places of education then close it off with a declaration that they are winning.

    Any argument that goes ‘just trust me guys, god is my side’ has zero value to me.

  35. Amon says:
    @Ron Unz

    So our own Covid-19 epidemic actually began in 2015, with many millions of Americans having already been infected before the Wuhan outbreak became apparent, but absolutely nobody in America had ever noticed anything.

    I believe the general census is that the outbreak began in the summer of 2019 with the mysterious vapor illness among the young and the strange and the highly lethal outbreak of pneumonia among elders in nursing homes in the area around Ft. Detrick. Two illnesses that both just so happened to display the same mosaic pattern as covid lungs would be seen producing and has the same set of symptoms as C-19.

    Besides, accident or not, the US has a long history of testing bio warfare tactics on its own population.

    • Agree: acementhead
    • Replies: @James N. Kennett
  36. Where it came from is merely interesting; who it came from is the real question, and the trail of funding goes right back to the same researcher behind the pharma induced deaths of years of AIDS research.

    • Replies: @MGB
  37. gotmituns says:

    Derbyshire is too intellectual. It doesn’t matter where Covid-19 came from. The only thing that matters is fighting the entire HOAX.

    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
  38. @Ron Unz

    If Roberts isn’t currently being paid by Steve Bannon, he should immediately apply for a stipend…

    Haha. I think all here are familiar with Mr. Godfree Roberts, our writer under whose column we’re commenting on in particular. I think Mr. Derbyshire would consider Mr. Roberts’ statements about Mao error China (homonym joke intended) too ridiculous to even comment on.

    Mr. Roberts comes across as a polite enough guy, and he obviously attracts a lot of comments on your site. If you’re gonna host this ludicrous Mao-sackhanging stuff though, would you consider hosting a survivalist/prepper type writer? That’s going to turn out to be more important discussion in the pretty near future the way the US Gov’t is trashing the \$, in an accelerating manner. Your commenting system is not only the best I’ve every used, but the best I’ve seen on-line, so that’s why I’d make great use of some prepping discussion.*

    It can get as political as we want it to be, since this is obviously a political site, not a food storage/gardening/DIY site. Some of the discussion (such as I used to see in Zerohedge comments) can get pretty political in terms of how things will go down when they do – that’s just as interesting to preppers, as the question of WHAT exactly one must prepare for is somewhat open-ended. One more thing – I think it’d draw in some people who would have never read many of your other writers before and might take a break from the down-to-earth stuff to read them.

  39. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    As I understand it there is no reason t assume that the choice is either Wuhan or some US lab. The Wuhan lab received financial support from the NIH, I understand, and researchers in Wuhan went back and forth between Western labs and Wuhan. It is claimed there is evidence of infections occurring along the route between the Wuhan lab and the airport. Why could the work not have been shared over half the planet? It has been argued that more mutations of Covid have been discovered in the US than in China or Europe and that Covid has been attributed in retrospect to deaths which occurred well before December of 2019 in the US.

    Many people see the Covid virus as very dangerous, but others argue it is generally no worse than a bad flu and people do die from flu. The greater number of Covid deaths can be attributed to misreporting of deaths from other causes from state sponsored manipulation. In short, Covid may be primarily a propaganda exercise which has produced useful political effects.

    So suppose one were to view Covid as a modest experiment in gain of function research shared among biolabs around the world under US sponsorship. The Covid virus may have been available in the US and Wuhan from sharing and not considered too dangerous by the researchers involved.

    It might then have been seen suitable to be released apparently accidentally or deliberately from the Wuhan lab or brought in from the outside, perhaps, by US agents to promote a politically motivated panic. The question should always be asked how much researchers are compromised everywhere by the competition for grant money to continue research. Scientists are an international lot and this fact may be under appreciated because of the presumed national identities of the labs where they work.

    The Covid virus’ capabilities and limitations may have been well understood by intelligence operatives in the US and China. Conceivably China reacted so quickly to the virus to curb a political assault rather than a medical epidemic in the making. The US response may have been planned as well or be a quick opportunistic response to a well understood virus. More thought needs to be given to the implications of the virus being a product of gain of function research.

    Who does this kind of work, where do they talk about it, on what terms do they share it, and how do they fund it?

  40. @Achmed E. Newman

    I agree with you that this is a PanicFest being used by governments for their own political purposes. It is not a pandemic. The last pandemic was Spanish Flu ( 1918-20). Estimates vary from 17m to 50m deaths. Nearly all are in the 20m to 30m range. Now the population of Earth in 1919 was 1.9bn. Now 2020, it is estimated at 7.8bn. If you scale 20m to 30m up to 2020 levels, you get 82m to 123m deaths.

    Hong Kong Flu ( 1968-70) resulted in far fewer deaths. Estimates vary from 1m t0 4m. If we take an average of 2.5m and scale it up to 2020 levels, you get 5.5m. Note, there were no special measures taken at the time for the disease.

    WHO figures say that there have been 3.83m deaths from COVID. In many countries, US and UK included, these figures have been inflated by faulty PCR tests and creative accounting – in England, deaths are being attributed to COVID up to 6 weeks after a positive test, for example. Regardless, COVID is only a fraction of the virulence of Hong Kong Flu, never mind Spanish Flu. The reaction by governments has been Draconian and unnecessary.

    • Replies: @Mark G.
    , @Verymuchalive
  41. Mother Nature –she is the culprit. Likwise global warming –check out her sons the tectonic plate sons moving abound under the Poles and ocean depths. Man is not completely knowledgeable about HER wrath and potential.

  42. @Curmudgeon

    Derbyshire only had 1000 words to work with. Give him some praise for even mentioning Unz’s kind of partisan (lots of China sympathy around here…) and kind of unlikely favourite conjecture on the origin of Covid 19 instead of chiding him.

    The drive of some to weigh down sound positions by stretching into often ludicrous “fact” teritory does our side a lot of harm. Holograms much? Bother to read Wade’s piece to the end, you “conspiracy nutt”. There you’ll find that Fauci and the NIH are also incriminated for founding Wuhan lab gain-of-function research. That should validate some of your sentiments 😉

  43. The Wu Flu should be more appropriately titled the Jew Flu because it’s only affecting the Jewish Financialized slave states — US, India, UK. It’s origin was also Fort Detrick, as reported by Chinese Sate Media.

  44. moi says:
    @Robert Dolan

    Covid-19 is as American as apple pie.

  45. Emslander says:

    My wife, who knows everything important because she teaches kindergarten, says SARS2COVID19 originated in her class of five-year-old’s in September of 2019. She says she has antibodies against it and every other communicable disease on the planet.

  46. President Trump has answered this.

    It came from China.

  47. Redman says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Agree. I’d like to think that if it could be proven (or at least shown to a high degree of probability) that the man put in charge of dealing with a new (and at least somewhat more deadly) virus was actually responsible for funding its creation, it could have an impact on the narrative. But based on the past year, I suspect that there is no “truth bomb” big enough to wake the masses from the spell they’ve been put under.

    Still, for strictly personal reasons, I’d like to see Lord Fauci outed for the fraud he is.

  48. We know the origin of the virus. It originally came from UNC Chapel Hill. The “gain of function” research was ended because it was banned. Fauci the fraud then had UNC package everything up and it was sent to Wuhan and Fauci the fraud redirected funding to China as well.

    Early on, there were people, who knew what they were talking about that said, point blank, that the virus had the hallmarks of being engineered. The most likely way it made it into the wild was intentional release. But, even if accidental release has a low probability, low probability does no preclude that happening. I know the CCP is cold and immoral, but it would be the height of stupidity to intentionally release into their own population.

    • Agree: GMC
  49. Bill P says:

    I originally thought the virus emerged from nature like SARS 1. There are lots of nasty viruses in tropical SE Asia, which includes parts of south China, and Chinese mess around with nature so much that there are bound to be transmissions.

    However, now that the NIH funding of bat virus research in Wuhan, probably to circumvent US safety regulations, is out in the open, a lab leak looks highly probable.

    Researchers have evidently been collecting and culturing wild bat viruses in Wuhan for years. Given Chinese safety standards, this is an outrage. Messing around with potential pandemic material in China of all places is not like setting up some sweatshop or pollution spewing factory that will only harm the local Chinese (although that’s morally repugnant, too). It has the potential to affect the entirety of humanity, and it looks like that’s what happened.

    That Daszak guy should be arrested and interrogated, as should all Americans connected with the Wuhan lab.

  50. Blissex says:
    @Curmudgeon

    «the “Spanish Flu” was identified in Spain, because Spain was a non-combatant in WWI. It started in Fort Riley, Kansas»

    There is quite a different take where it is shown that like in 1918 the “Wuhan virus” did not originate in Wuhan, but had been circulating widen well before there was an outbreak there:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSEtVBlcYjLk-O_bPEeReanFUGo3Ji_nVQCpbBYS2YRA0FwV9Yr9TIz12Jdvcz1JhvoFLpT9xH5WpGq/pub

    «the panic of all of the so-called health authorities over a “disease” that has an Infection Mortality Rate of .01-.05% was hyped to push the “mail in voting” scam»

    That seems to me fairly ridiculous, as the death rates for western-style (many oldies) populations is around 1-3% of the infected, and much, much higher for people with weaker health like oldies. Very roughly speaking COVID is about 10 times more deadly than common flu, and 10 times less deadly than the Black Plague, so still pretty bad. Also apart from death rates the sickness rates matter a lot too, as many of the infected need 1-3 months of intensive care, which is not just very expensive, but can really disrupt and ruin people’s lives.

    That COVID may have *also* been used to advanced various nefarious agendas is likely, but if one looks at the worldwide response, among countries where Trump, 5G etc. are not an issue, it seems quite clear that COVID has been taken very seriously there too.

    • Replies: @Anon62
  51. Stonewall Jackson [AKA "John Dillinger"] says:

    It’s hard to follow Little Ronnie Unz and his trek to how this virus is a bio weapon blowback… like it’s hard to follow his logic about the failure of white nationalism and the great things that cholos do for America and how we shouldn’t focus on a border.
    Hey Ronnie…Biden has seen to it that there is no more border. Happy?

    The stupid argument about the US producing it… right this idiot country could do that…it f\$cks up everything it does.. and then his crap about excess deaths and his wetting his little pants over covid as he did from the beginning…

    So don’t cite Unz as anything worth reading.

    • Troll: GMC
  52. Option D…..Porton Downs!!! Its the Crown Virus….and Prince Philip has reincarnated!

    And certainly if one has not read Yoichi Shimatsu’s articles, 26 of them as the crisis unfolded then please do….in the least the reading is in no ways boring fodder, but cuts to the punch.

    https://rense.com/Datapages/yoichidat.htm

    • Thanks: annamaria
    • Replies: @Waz
  53. Bro43rd says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Have to agree with you 1000%. All this who dun it is nothing but a shell game. Look over here while we install ever growing big statism control of your lives.

  54. @Ron Unz

    To my surprise I found myself reading Ann Couter in Taki Mag. Well she was writing with respect for Nicholas Wade about his article in Medium.

    Her article is at

    https://www.takimag.com/article/i-will-not-be-scienced/print

    She writes- and I wonder if this is all true

    “He doesn’t mention that 27 of the original 41 Chinese people who contracted COVID-19 had been to the Wuhan wet market, known the world over for its delectable porcupine anus and snake innards. Several other carriers were family members of those infected there. By contrast, no one from the Wuhan lab appears to have been infected.”

    Now,it occurs to me to ask where the Medical Intelligence warning fits in. Not too difficult really if one assumes that the strong American connections to the WIV would have meant early prompt advice about something local party officials would be far too frightened to report until it was unavoidable. It is easy to understand how some American trained virologist might feel quite free to tell Americans that there were rumours about what was emerging from wet market contacts and that it could be very serious.

  55. Blissex says:
    @Ron Unz

    «So our own Covid-19 epidemic actually began in 2015, with many millions of Americans having already been infected before the Wuhan outbreak became apparent, but absolutely nobody in America had ever noticed anything.»

    That to me seems a very large misunderstanding of the argument in that essay, as the graph shows that from 2015 up to January 2019 there were likely less than 2,000 COVID related deaths across the whole of the USA (and less than 500 up to January 2018), and those could well have been disregarded and misclassified as SARS-1 or flu or something else. Also since the typical death rate is 1-3% that would imply 60,000-200,000 infected across the whole of the USA, which is entirely plausible, as most SARS-2 infections in younger/healthier people are asymptomatic, and again even if symptoms happened they could have been easily mistaken for something else. That SARS-2 was a new and slightly different form of coronavirus was only discovered in Wuhan because there was the first mass-outbreak there (possibly consequent to the World Military Games) and some chinese doctors realizes that the symptoms were similar across a lot of people and not quite the same as other more common diseases.

    The single biggest flaw in that graph is that it assumed a straightforward doubling rate, with a straight line over a logarithmic scale, where instead most of these things follow an S-curve growth pattern.

    There is a general principle at play here: a lot of the time we and the environment carry a lot of bacteria and viruses, most of the “bad” ones kept under control by a constant fightback by our immune system and the competition from other bacteria and viruses, we get widespread illnesses when there are outbreaks caused by changes in the balance between “offense” and “defense”, e.g. mutations or weakening of the immune system or additional “bad” bacteria or viruses from other sources.

    It is thus quite plausible that a SARS-like virus could have been present here and there for a long time. The essay also does not single out the USA, it makes the argument that going back in time with the doubling rate a start date of 2015-2016 looks plausible also for Europe, and it does not say this but it is implicit that it could have have started in China itself in 2015-2016 too.

    The role of the USA military in the story can be much simpler than many think and more passive than active: the USA military could not be a better mechanism to collect diseases around the world and spread them in the USA and everywhere else, as it has hundreds of bases across the world, with deployments across continents, rotations, tours of duty, close living, extensive contacts with locals; even without rotations etc. there are many business meetings among people based in far away places. No doubt the chinese military has the same effect within China itself.

    • Replies: @Wayne Lusvardi
  56. @Godfree Roberts

    How does your death doubling chart compare with officially reported figures? What explains differences?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  57. jo6pac says:

    Please take the time look for Whitney Webb at unlimited hangout.

    • Agree: GMC
  58. I think the biggest flaw in Wade’s paper is his assumption that virus originated in China:

    What became clear was that the Chinese had no evidence to offer the commission in support of the natural emergence theory.
    This was surprising because both the SARS1 and MERS viruses had left copious traces in the environment. The intermediary host species of SARS1 was identified within four months of the epidemic’s outbreak, and the host of MERS within nine months. Yet some 15 months after the SARS2 pandemic began, and a presumably intensive search, Chinese researchers had failed to find either the original bat population, or the intermediate species to which SARS2 might have jumped, or any serological evidence that any Chinese population, including that of Wuhan, had ever been exposed to the virus prior to December 2019

    If the virus originated from other country, then there’s no way for Chinese scientists to find original bat population or the intermediate species in China.

    It is very strange that Iran which very few Chinese go to visit was the second country to be seriously hit, while other countries with a lot of Chinese visitors and tourists like Thailand and Malaysia weren’t hit until very late or have never been a serious problem.

    It is also strange that developed countries are hit hard while poor countries are not. Cases and death tolls should have exploded a year ago in India, but it didn’t happen until recently.

    These evidences tell me that the different variants affect people differently in different population and environment. It’s very possible the first variant that hit Wuhan was brought in by the Military World Games which took place in Wuhan in mid October, not necessarily brought in by The U.S soldiers though.

    Wuhan is a city with 11 million people, 3 million more than NYC. People generally live in much more crowded apartments than NYC and often three generations live together. It was spring festival, traditional shopping and friends and family get together time. It was also the flu season. Unlike in America that most people just stay home and take Tylenol for flu, most Chinese go to hospital to see doctors if they have fever. When government conformed to the public in mid January that it is a SARS 2 virus spreading from human to human, people in Wuhan panicked, hospitals crowded with people who usually might just stay home for their flu rushed to hospitals to check if they got COVID-19, causing the virus to further spread. Had not for these factors happen to be together in Wuhan, who knows which city the pandemic would explode first?

    • Replies: @Anon62
  59. Smith says:

    There’s a war between Israel – Palestine going on and like 5 of Unz’s threads about Corona-chan and US politics, this is getting really boring.

    We need more geopolitical and military discussion, not this hoax vs not hoax bullshit which is impossible to prove.

    • Agree: Olivier1973
    • Replies: @annamaria
  60. The question of where is a day late and a dollar short. It should have been asked from the get go. Now you have a worldwide movement to inject people with experimental gene therapies and vaccines. Have you considered that might have been the penultimate point of this gain of function virus and its release?

  61. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    The Blame Game- Who To Blame?

    The Wuhan level 4 lab’s CV-19/gain of function research was apparently overseen/directly run/funded by Fauci, who was/is in turn also apparently directly funded by Gates.

    The Wuhan lab CV-19/gain of function research was simply “offshored” from the US’s UNC and other Us universitys [where it had been going on for years], after that type of bioweapons research was supposedly made illegal in the US [ in 2015, I believe], via regulations mostly written by Prof. Francis Boyle

    See : Alex Jones Interview with Prof. Francis Boyle 05/12/21 [main interview starts 4 min 46 secs in]: https://d.tube/#!/v/rongibsonchannel/8h4tkyqny36

    N.B. The REAL bioweapons are all of the fake CV-19 “vaccines”. CV-19 itself was just a manufactured set-up excuse in order to scare all the robot dope slaves into getting “vaccinated” with substances that may be far more deadly than any supposed “virus”.
    See:
    “Science Journals Support Claim that Pfizer Covid Vaccine May Cause Deadly Neurodegenerative Disease”:
    https://www.activistpost.com/2021/05/science-journals-support-claim-that-pfizer-covid-vaccine-may-cause-deadly-neurodegenerative-disease.html

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Abdul Alhazred
  62. This article is useless and presents no evidence whatsoever, only the biased thoughts of an individual. We learn more about him than about anything else.

  63. @Ron Unz

    Just to clarify things, I see ZERO evidence that Covid-19 came from Ft. Detrick, and I’ve never claimed otherwise.

    I would like to know: why was Fort Detrick closed?

    if Roberts isn’t currently being paid by Steve Bannon, he should immediately apply for a stipend…

    Fallacy. Or is Steve Bannon a Chinese propagandist?

  64. HorstG says:

    Let’s think outside of that frame. Statistics do not show exceptional numbers, not regarding hospitalizations, not death. Average “victim” age well beyond 80 years! And no, I do not think lockdowns and masks did a difference. Thinking about where the “virus” came from just supports the narrative.
    Doing so increases the pressure to take jabs. The reality seems to be the world powers worked together, communist China produced propaganda pictures, showing “dead” people in the streets, “disinfecting” whole streets using snow cannons on trucks, and constructing a hospital using dozens of excavators. The western left used the story to lock down societies, to ruin small businesses, and to push multiple agendas like never before.

    • Agree: TheTrumanShow
    • Replies: @veryoldman
  65. annamaria says:
    @obwandiyag

    “…they bungled there insidious, sly science fiction plan. Which is why all the governments in the world lost their minds. Because they know damn well it’s biowarfare, but they have no idea how bad it’s going to be.”

    — Your conjecture sounds plausible.

    https://www.naturalblaze.com/2018/01/bio-weapons-pentagon.html

    The US Army regularly produces deadly viruses, bacteria and toxins in direct violation of the UN Convention on the prohibition of Biological Weapons. Hundreds of thousands of unwitting people are systematically exposed to dangerous pathogens and other incurable diseases. Bio warfare scientists using diplomatic cover test man-made viruses at Pentagon bio laboratories in 25 countries across the world. These US bio-laboratories are funded by the Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) under a \$ 2.1 billion military program– Cooperative Biological Engagement Program (CBEP), and are located in former Soviet Union countries such as Georgia and Ukraine, the Middle East, South East Asia and Africa.

    Why the Pentagon collects and studies bats:
    Bats are allegedly the reservoir hosts to the Ebola Virus , Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) and other deadly diseases. However, the precise ways these viruses are transmitted to humans are currently unknown. Numerous studies have been performed under the DTRA Cooperative Biological Engagement Program (CBEP) in a search for deadly pathogens of military importance in bats.

    • Replies: @Olivier1973
  66. @Wizard of Oz

    Mr. Unz had the link and quick run-down, but I gotta admit it was Ann Coulter who got me to read the Nicholas Wade column, Wizard. Miss Coulter does not try to understand the science – I’ll give her credit for being honest about that. However, what I’m really disappointed about in her column is that she missed an opportunity for a softball-sized, OK, maybe peach-sized, joke.

    I don’t get all the discussion about furin cleavage. American cleavage or foreign cleavage is just as nice. I, for one, DO NOT DISCRIMINATE. In fact, I’m all for an exception to the hopefully-coming immigration moratorium, using the new DD-1 visa to admit an influx of foreign cleavage. I’m sure Dr. Fauci would approve.

    .

    I’m sorry, if it seems like I’m pervasive on these threads just for the jokes, but that’s not the case at all. It’s to drive traffic to Peak Stupidity. Well, it was, but then I got sucked in, too. Errr, thanks, Ron and Steve, sorta…

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
  67. we’d need to have a good look at the records of the Wuhan lab in late 2019 and early 2020, and have unsupervised interviews with relevant employees.

    In communist China, that won’t happen. Those records have long since been reduced to their component molecules and the ashes dumped in the Mariana Trench; those employees, in the unlikely event they survived their interrogations by the secret police, are now employed at stone quarries on the Qinghai Plateau.

    You’re just a cynical skeptic, or a skeptical cynic. Whatever.

    Rumor has it that Xi Jinping’s China plans to release the Wuhan lab records on the same day the USA releases the truth of what happened on November 22, 1963 in Dallas, Texas.

  68. I met a nurse. She works on the newly formed covid ward (was flu ward). She tells me “this time last year we were in code yellow because of so many flu cases. How many flu cases do you think we had this year?” I answered “I dont know. I researched from day one death numbers and looked for excess morbidity and could find none.”

    She looked at me and with her fingers and made a circle meaning they have now 0 Flu cases. I gasped but told her” I knew it!” She then told me how everything had become cases and that as medical professionals most she worked with were worried, but not because of covid.

    Honestly this is a ruse to get cattle injected. If you cant see that your blind.

    I trust that covids are around and will be around as long as we have a toxic environment. Look at what Andrew Kaufman says about it. I think the entire germ theory is based on false science. Too many assumptions for me to want to join the team.

    BTW ever hear of scourguard? https://www2.zoetisus.com/products/beef/scourguard-4kc Fools everywhere!

  69. Che Guava says:

    John Derb,

    You are an interesting writer,I wrote to you several years ago, you sent a polite reply.

    Thank you for that, but you didn’t really understand what the links I sent were saying at the time, and doubt that it is among your children, but is definitely being promoted among Eurasian children now.

    This article is a little thin, I would suspect that Mr. Unz chose it only to demonstrate that he will publish opposition to his own view, or because no other regular commentator had published a good article by the time of selection.

    In any case,

    Cheers!

  70. @annamaria

    No wonder the following site was often closed because of DDOS attacks:

    https://armswatch.com/category/weapons/

    Especially:

    https://armswatch.com/new-data-leak-from-the-pentagon-biolaboratory-in-georgia/

    Now try to argue that the yankees are not developing bio-weapons and will never use them…

  71. “To either verify or decisively eliminate the lab-escape hypothesis, for example, we’d need to have a good look at the records of the multiple coronavirus labs in the US , particularly the Ft. Detrick lab in late 2019 and early 2020, and have unfettered access to the records of the CIA and State Department, and have unsupervised interviews with relevant employees.

    In the Neocon-controlled United States, that won’t happen.”

    Fixed that for ya.

  72. tyrone says:
    @Just another serf

    Funded gain of function experiments on corona viruses in China AND is the go-to guy on America’s
    response to the resulting “pandemic” ….you wouldn’t make a movie with the plot of the last few years it would strain credulity.

    • Agree: Just another serf
  73. @HorstG

    When you see the entire world government work in unison. You know “there is something rotten in Denmark”
    So who is the boss?

    • Replies: @TheTrumanShow
  74. China was prepared for the virus that it created in a lab and thus escaped the brunt of it. Had it been employed by the US government, then millions would have been infected in China and not here at home.

    • Replies: @Blissex
  75. AndrewR says:
    @mijj

    Lol you mean “us, the people.”

    But anyway, to me it doesn’t matter where the virus originated. It clearly has been used in a totalitarian manner by Israel and its vassals, and it’s greatly in our interests to blame it on Israel and the US.

    I have no love for China, but Xi Jinping never called me goy, a white supremacist, or a racist simply for existing.

    • Replies: @Realist
  76. annamaria says:
    @Bill P

    2018: http://dilyana.bg/the-pentagon-bio-weapons/

    Why the Pentagon collects and studies bats:

    Bats are allegedly the reservoir hosts to the Ebola Virus , Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) and other deadly diseases. However, the precise ways these viruses are transmitted to humans are currently unknown. Numerous studies have been performed under the [US] DTRA Cooperative Biological Engagement Program (CBEP) in a search for deadly pathogens of military importance in bats.

    221 bats were euthanized at the Lugar Center for research purposes in 2014.

    https://www.grease-network.org/content/download/5407/40323/version/1/file/2017+CBEP+SPR+Program+Book_Final.pdf
    [The Lugar Research Center in Georgia came to the public’s attention in 2017, when Russian authorities repeatedly alleged that the center was engaged in biological weapons development for the United States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugar_Research_Center%5D

    Engineering deadly viruses is legal in the US

    MERS-CoV is one of the viruses that have been engineered by the US and studied by the Pentagon, as well as Influenza and SARS. Confirmation of this practice is Obama’s 2014 temporary ban on government funding for such “dual-use” research. The moratorium was lifted in 2017 and experiments have continued. Enhanced Potential Pandemic Pathogens (PPPs) experiments are legal in the US. Such experiments aim to increase the transmissibility and/or virulence of pathogens.

    https://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/iq/comparison-covid-19-sars-mers

    COVID-19 is related to SARS in that they are both types of coronavirus, along with MERS. The 3 diseases all belong to the Coronaviridae family.

  77. Amon says:
    @GMC

    Where do you go to when the NWO is everywhere?

    • Replies: @GMC
  78. AndrewR says:
    @Trinity

    As of yesterday, Governor Shitmer has graciously allowed us peasants to not wear masks in public if we have gotten the Wu Flu vax. But Kroger still officially mandates it. Granted, my local Kroger hasn’t bothered enforcing mask usage in months, but, until yesterday, I always wore a mask because most people wore them, and I don’t like to stick out. Yesterday I decided to shop maskless for the first time, but when I masklessly walked in there yesterday, 90% of customers were wearing masks, and I felt so self-conscious that I put my mask on. People are sheep! I guess I am too.

  79. @Godfree Roberts

    We don’t yet know its birthplace, but the CDC says it was endemic in the USA in 2019, before it reached China.

    [Chart that doesn’t match official records as @Wizard of Oz points out.]

    The details are in “Serologic testing of U.S. blood donations to identify SARS-CoV-2-reactive antibodies: December 2019-January 2020,” by Sridhar V Basavaraju, MD, et al. https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1785/6012472

    From the fine paper, which some months ago I examined in detail along with @utu I’m pretty sure and others in one or more iSteve topics:

    Results

    Of the 7389 samples, 106 were reactive by pan-Ig. Of these 106 specimens, 90 were available for further testing. Eighty-four of 90 had neutralizing activity, 1 had S1 binding activity, and 1 had receptor-binding domain/ACE2 blocking activity >50%, suggesting the presence of anti–SARS-CoV-2–reactive antibodies. Donations with reactivity occurred in all 9 states.

    Conclusions

    These findings suggest that SARS-CoV-2 may have been introduced into the United States prior to 19 January 2020.

    […]

    Table 1….

    No. tested No. Reactive (% of Tested) No. Reactive With Further Testing (% of Tested)….

    All specimens from 13–16 December 2019 1912 39 (2.0)….

    American Red Cross Blood Services region
      Northern California (CA) 508 12 (2.4)….
      Pacific Northwest (OR, WA) 763 16 (2.1)….
      Southern California (CA) 641 11 (1.7)….

    There’s another set of samples from 30 December 2019 to 17 January 2020, 5477 with 67 or 1.2% testing testing positive, from MA, WI, IA, MI, CT and RI. This doesn’t support “4-6 million Americans had been infected by December, 2019” because the later samples east of the West coast don’t indicate hardly as high a prevalence nationwide, and that’s before we get into the weeds of immunology which I don’t think any of us understand but which are necessary judge the quality of the results. You’d also need to correct for the demographics of people who donate blood to the population as a whole. So see the much more modest Conclusions of the paper.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  80. @Voltarde

    The link you make between the rather low scientific profile of microbiologists and the iatrogenic infection thoughts in your post – could you elaborate maybe a bit more on that link between the two?

    One aspect would be, that microbiologists are not terribly interested in finding out about iatrogenic infections. Ok – are you also implying, that they are not too capable either – and what else would come to your mind in this context?

    In Germany is the rather prominent and very influential virologist Christian Drosten who is obviously intellectually a tad weak and makes up for that by being media savvy and alerting people all the time about the next, even deadlier virus waiting for them – or being here already. He is always pressing the alarm – and has thus managed to become as I said, very popular – he is now a kind of a star in Germany.

  81. tmp says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I read the referenced paper. It is not even conclusive about the evidence of Covid19 in the US before December 2019 (although a high likelihood). Certainly you will not find the number 3-4 million or the year 2015 in there:

    “Further studies involving retrospective analyses
    of human specimens with molecular or serologic methods are necessary to further corroborate the present findings, which
    suggest the presence of specific antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in
    the United States as early as mid-December 2019.
    The findings of this report suggest that SARS-CoV-2 infec-
    tions may have been present in the United States in December
    2019, earlier than previously recognized.”

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  82. GMC says:
    @annamaria

    Thanks AnnaMaria – that is a very good article and I ‘ve been thru many of those towns in Ukraine , but the people are just unaware of the danger and of course the Kyiv leadership sold their people out long ago. Now, if we could get Russia to cowboy up and start a media war with Ukraine about these BioWeapons labs – we might be able to wake up the Ukies – Spacibo Bolshoy

  83. annamaria says:
    @Smith

    It is not a war — it is an Israelis’ pastime of slaughtering the native populations of Palestine.

    All kinds of the aspiring ‘Madeleine Albrights’ (of the male and female persuasion) went on MSM in the Five Eyes vassalages to explains how it was imprudent of Palestinian children to live within the reach of (and to be killed by) the most moral holobiz victims professing the right of return for one and only one ethnic group.

    \$3.8 billion of US taxpayers’ money per year to support this kind of progeny: https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/netanyahus-son-yair-brags-about-prostitutes-20bn-gas-deal-in-strip-club-rant/news-story/49723ece5ed87901f077cd502498baec

    Netanyahu’s son Yair brags about prostitutes, \$20bn gas deal in strip club rant:

    …a recording emerged of his [Bibi’s] son joyriding at taxpayer expense to Tel Aviv strip clubs with his super-rich buddies and bragging about how his father pushed through a controversial gas deal.

    The 2015 recording raised questions over why a state-funded bodyguard and driver were necessary to facilitate such debauchery. … In the recording, Netanyahu and his friends recount their night out on the town and make disparaging comments about women…

    He is also heard drunkenly bragging to the son of an Israeli oil tycoon about how the prime minister advanced a bill in parliament that delivered billions of dollars to his friend’s father…

  84. @Voltarde

    Most career opportunities for microbiologists are in high-volume clinical laboratories, where production and quality control are more important than innovation, and where diagnostic assays are standardized and wherever possible automated. Research laboratories are very different.

    A related aspect is that so-called “principal investigators” (PI) in research laboratories rarely if ever perform experiments. Their junior colleagues do. Here the intellectual quality of personnel can be even more suspect: microbiology lab technicians have no prospects of career advancement, so their motivation for fully understanding their experiments is low. (Emphasis added.)

    There’s two errors here: first your implication that most of what you said prior about microbiologists applies to research labs, where I’ll note certain sorts of mistakes with bacteria are easily lethal. The second is that PIs’ junior colleagues are grad students and postdocs, the latter people who got their Ph.D. and who get temporary positions before longer term ones. I’m some of them are dumb as bricks, but they aren’t the no career advancement lab techs for whom a bachelor’s is usually their terminal degree.

    The real issue is that there’s going to be a bell curve or the like of microbiology research labs. The microbiology PI and grad student I did work for/with as a high school student were sharp as tacks, but to address the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) as a possible source, there’s a tremendous number of factors that could contribute to their creating and accidentally releasing a gain of function experiment result. General Second/Third World tendencies to do cargo cult science, Steven Mosher claimed a Beijing lab guy was convicted of selling research animals for food instead of destroying them, also in Beijing see the SARS lab leaks (the sort of thing we also see way too much of in the First World), the claims the gain of function research were done in much more convenient to work in BSL-2 or maybe 3 instead of the BSL-4 they should have been done in (also seen in the First World), etc.

    I don’t think we can draw useful conclusions from any of this except that evidence from around the world shows a lab leak was entirely possible at the WIV as well as the Chinese CDC I think it was lab also in the city which has no higher than BSL-2 labs.

  85. @Trinity

    86 year-old home run king Hank Aaron, supposedly in excellent shape for a man his age, took publicly took the shot to encourage “vaccine hesitant” blacks to take it. But his noble effort backfired. He died two weeks later. Naturally, the vaccine pushers said his death was not related to the shot. Those people must think that all Americans are idiots. Well, only most are.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  86. @Carlton Meyer

    How can something that has not yet been proven to exist, do ANYthing — let alone manage to escape from a lab, James Bond style?

  87. BorisMay says:

    Covid does not and never has existed.

    Yes, there are numerous coronavirus forms of flu…at least 350,000 with 3 or 4 new mutations being added every day.

    Coronavirus deaths occur on death certificates because governments across the world have instructed medical doctors to only write ‘death from Covid’ on death certificates.

    The rest is government propaganda that’s all.

    • Disagree: El Dato
    • Replies: @El Dato
  88. Sean says:

    What do I think of Ron’s theory? I wouldn’t rule it out, given the lawlessness and deep stupidity of our intelligence agencies.

    Ron has saturated the market for US deep state conspiracies with so many that it probably makes any particular one less easy to believe than it ought to be, if assessed solely on the hard evidence.

    Video with much jaw dropping info on the connection between the US scientific technical establishment and Chinese research intp coronaviruses. Not conspiracy, just international cooperation between experts. The US taxpayer funding gain of function experiments with coronavirus is perfectly proper. So what if the research was actually being done in Wuhan?

    https://rumble.com/vg1ujt-exclusive-sharyl-attkisson-investigates-covid-origins.html

  89. Dystopian says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I wasn’t sure about the origin of the dreaded Covid but now that a Chinese shill is doing his best to muddy the waters, I’m convinced that it came from China.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  90. @Bill P

    I originally thought the virus emerged from nature like SARS 1. There are lots of nasty viruses in tropical SE Asia, which includes parts of south China, and Chinese mess around with nature so much that there are bound to be transmissions.

    However, now that the NIH funding of bat virus research in Wuhan, probably to circumvent US safety regulations, is out in the open, a lab leak looks highly probable.

    Researchers have evidently been collecting and culturing wild bat viruses in Wuhan for years. Given Chinese safety standards, this is an outrage…

    That Daszak guy should be arrested and interrogated, as should all Americans connected with the Wuhan lab.

    Daszak is a cut out through which the Saint Fauci institute in the National Institutes of Health (NIH) funneled funding to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV). First about 5 years to collect exotic bat viruses, followed by a year of funding of gain of function research no matter what self-admitted multiple times liar Saint Fauci claimed when confronted by still practicing doctor Rand Paul. A self-evident outrage as you note, but our ruling trash are protecting the culprits, if for no other reason than what all they’ve gained from COVID-19 including it helping to rid them of the turbulent BAD ORANGE MAN.

    • Thanks: MEH 0910, Dieter Kief
  91. Realist says:
    @AndrewR

    Lol you mean “us, the people.”

    He was probably making a play on the start of the Preamble to the Constitution.

  92. Vaccines are the poison. The so called C virus is a lie, could be flu, a cold, pneumonia, fever, that the doctor now calls a C virus for extra money. The theory behind vaccines is insane and was debunked over 100 years ago. But Big Pharma won’t stop trying to make easy money off of people’s ignorance.

    • Agree: TheTrumanShow
  93. Covid-19 aka certificate of vaccination ID-19 is a concoction, a myth, a phantom, a scam concocted in the demented, diabolical, draconian minds of the satanists in the WEF, the Rockefeller and Gates Foundations, the WHO, UN Agenda 2030, the Rothschilds central banks, to instill fear and hysteria across the world and via this fear and hysteria convince people to take the jab, which is not a vaccine but an operating platform to deliver an mRNA injection which will alter the DNA and destroy the immune system.

    Covid-19 is the biggest scam and psyop in the history of the world and is a genocide agenda that will make Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, look like rookies, this is a world wide one world government genocide program that is designed to not only kill people but destroy their governments, and all this because of a mythical virus, that does not exist, it has never been isolated therefore it does not exist!

    • Agree: Alfred, TheTrumanShow
    • Thanks: Emslander
  94. Mr Derbyshire,

    You wrote:”It’s coming up to fifty years ago since Lin Biao, who had been Mao Tse-tung’s right-hand man, disappeared from the scene and was declared to have been a counter-revolutionary traitor. Was he? Did he really die while trying to flee China? Why was he trying to flee? After fifty years, scholars are still arguing.”

    How many years after the assassination of J.F Kennedy? Aren’t scholars still arguing?…

    It seems the US of A is deeply and sadly as rotten as the PRC

  95. El Dato says:

    What do I think of Ron’s theory? I wouldn’t rule it out, given the lawlessness and deep stupidity of our intelligence agencies.

    It’s also a “theory” that isn’t because it adds extraneous details to a a quite good one AND demands that what fits a “natural occurrence” (lab escape exactly where lab escape is expected) be decorated with a complex international conspiracy, that moreover blows back (nobody thought of that, lol). So it’s weak sauce – back to epicycles or the good ol never-ending serial trick: The villain revealed is not the REAL villain (which will again not turn out to be REAL REAL villain, zounds!)

    Several senior Iranian officials died of COVID. Hmm.

    Well, d’oh! Is the implication that Israeli agents used this occasion to off them?

    In communist China, that won’t happen. Those records have long since been reduced to their component molecules and the ashes dumped in the Mariana Trench; those employees, in the unlikely event they survived their interrogations by the secret police, are now employed at stone quarries on the Qinghai Plateau.

    Right. China is worse than Hollywood Nazis on amphetamin. We always knew it, it’s just the lack of leather coats that fooled us. I hope this will be enough Deep State copywriting for some time yet.

    That’s easily tested though. Just grep the authors of the relevant papers and check whether they have mysteriously stopped writing.

  96. @onebornfree

    Yes much thanks to Law Professor Francis Boyle!!!

  97. @Blissex

    I discovered evidence of a fourth explanation which I detail in my comment above. Wuhan University wrote a paper on the recommended protocol for treatment of the mysterious C-19 that was published in Lancet and adopted worldwide as the standard of care. But it was apparently weaponized to bring about deaths. So, was there collusion between Wuhan and Lancet? And if so, there needed to be no real “virus”, just panic and hysteria and lockdowns. See my comment above for more information.

    • Replies: @Blissex
  98. GMC says:
    @Amon

    Boy, that’s a pretty hard question to answer. It all depends on how much traveling you’ve done and if you can assimilate enough to be fairly content with your new found neighborhood. If you speak a bit of spanish and like the Latin people – Central America has some decent places here and there. I liked parts of Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Panama, – and you can check those places out up to 3 mos at a time and/or travel from there onto other Gringo neighborhoods if you like. I went East East Europe because I worked there and was OK with the place – Ukraine – but the US took over the place and made it ” Democratic” , Washington/Langley style. So southern Russia is my base and I would like to move to the Far East for awhile. Americans need to get out of there for awhile – clear their minds more and re boot. OO dah chee { Good Luck }

  99. @The Real World

    Check out the EMF readings at about 13’09.

  100. @Wayne Lusvardi

    Dr. Kohnlein points out that the model treatments for coronavirus prescribed in the article are “toxic” and suppress the immune system, especially the application of cortisone and interferons which reduce inflammation but “stops the defense mechanism”. It is Kohnlein’s opinion that this treatment protocol is “malpractice”.

    The article is from a period where everyone in the world, including especially doctors in the PRC, were struggling to find interventions that would at net save lives. “interferons” did not turn out to do that, but finding the right balance between suppressing and allowing the body’s natural defense mechanisms to do their thing has in the West been deemed critical. Surely we’ve all heard of conditions where the immune system goes too far one way or another? The U.K. did a big study, and following that the NIH for example recommends a steroid for all patients who require supplemental oxygen or worse, see the Merck Manual for example, it’s got a tremendous number of links including to the NIH’s recommendations.

    • Thanks: MEH 0910
  101. John

    The Corona Virus was brought to America by Chinese LEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

    Which raises the very obvious question:Why are the Chinese allowed into America LEGALLY?

    Answer:so the Chinese from China can vote enthusiastically the HISTORIC NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN WORKING CLASS MAJORITY into a violently persecuted White Racial Minority within the borders of America. Nothing else has to be stated. I don’t care how the Corona Virus was created in China. It was brought into America by Chinese LEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Is this what Richard Nixon had in mind back in January 1972?

    • Disagree: El Dato
    • Replies: @GMC
  102. El Dato says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    That logarithmic graph is extremly misleading. It should really stop below January 2019 and not pretend that what is essentially pure noise perfectly fits a mathematical exponential. We don’t even know the COVID-19 deaths NOW, ffs.

    our first case occurred in 2015

    The assumption that such a thing could happen burn unobserved in Glorious USA over several flu seasons while China records a suspicious spike of flu-like illnesses just around the end of 2019 exactly where it should be before the virus goes the party sounds a bit like .. retconning.

    The cited paper’s conclusion says:

    These findings suggest that SARS-CoV-2 may have been introduced into the United States prior to 19 January 2020.

    which is absolutely not the same as

    4-6 million Americans had been infected by December, 2019 and, based on a death doubling interval of 139 days and our peak death month, January, 2021

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  103. MEH 0910 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t get all the discussion about furin cleavage. American cleavage or foreign cleavage is just as nice. I, for one, DO NOT DISCRIMINATE.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  104. @Curmudgeon

    Look at my comment below. I found evidence that the medical procedure to treat the mysterious C-19 was written by researchers at Wuhan University and then published in the definitive journal Lancet, funded by Bill Gates. No real “virus” was necessary, just fomented panic, hysteria and lockdowns to the “normal” seasonal flu (Influenza A). This medical protocol became the standard of care worldwide and was considered deadly “malpractice” by European doctors. So there is a trail of evidence for a fourth explanation, not mere speculation.

    • Thanks: TheTrumanShow
    • Replies: @T.Rebon
  105. El Dato says:
    @BorisMay

    because governments across the world have instructed medical doctors to only write ‘death from Covid’ on death certificates.

    This is the first global collaborative effort that actually suceeded to a degree that only bubblemericans could believe it.

  106. Blissex says:
    @A Half Naked Fakir

    «China was prepared for the virus that it created in a lab and thus escaped the brunt of it.»

    Here is Business Week, not exactly a mouthpiece of Chairman Xi, denouncing loudly China for being totally unprepared to the COVID outbreak and thus having to buy abroad in a hurry, also through many volunteers, billions of masks:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-17/behind-china-s-epic-dash-for-ppe-that-left-the-world-short-on-masks

    China’s Epic Dash for PPE Left the World Short on Masks The humanitarian campaign saved lives but has made foreign governments wary of the long reach of the organizer, the Communist Party’s United Front. […] In Nagoya, Japan, volunteers drove to pharmacies and bought 520,000 masks in three days, according to an account carried by Xinhua, China’s official news agency. By Jan. 26, the head of a Chinese chamber of commerce in Toronto, just back from a trip to Beijing, started making calls to members telling them they needed to join the effort, the report said. Almost 100 people drove to Toronto—some overnight, on icy roads—and were dispatched to buy supplies. Planes out of Kenya and Milan were packed with boxes and suitcases filled with PPE bound for China. An overseas Chinese association in Argentina sent some 25,000 masks within a week of receiving the request.»

    Instead the same Bloomberg praises the USA government for preparing warehouses full of PPE equipment in preparation for biological “events”:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-10/the-future-of-u-s-national-stockpile-isn-t-a-bigger-stockpile

    a previously obscure government stash divided among secret warehouses across the country: the Strategic National Stockpile. The stockpile was created in 1998 to hold drugs and vaccines in case of a biological or chemical threat to the U.S. Over time, it’s also added personal protective equipment — such as masks and gowns — as well as antibiotics, emergency medicines, and, recently, testing supplies like nasal swabs.

    China-Taiwan, a bit better prepared than China-mainland, has had much better rates than the USA because like China-mainland it does not have a government that worships “ruggest individualism” where not getting infected and not infecting others is merely a matter of “taking personal responsibility”: it has adopted a mass test-trace-isolate approach, with no national lockdowns and only minimal vaccination campaigns. That has been ideologically impossible because in neoliberal countries state funded and organized public health projects are ideologically impossible.

  107. Thank you Mr. Derbyshire for your most excellent essay. As a former victim of SARS (CoV-1) one year before the release of CoV-19, it does seem odd that I, a simple recluse living in central coast Mexifornia would catch a deadly virus that also originated from China. Although their aim was to try and kill me, they failed. I was a victims of a trial run for the big one soon to arrive under a cloak of disinformation, propaganda and flat out lies.
    Anyone who believes that bats or wet markets caused C19 have taken the bait. We are under attack by globalists, and they’re going to do whatever they can regardless of collateral damage to enslave and depopulate.
    The markets are rigged, elections are rigged, critical race Theory is rigged against whites, and elected officials are all mostly illegitimate POS, leeching off the tit of the tax payers dime.
    Good day Mr. Derbyshire.

  108. @follyofwar

    86 year-old home run king Hank Aaron, supposedly in excellent shape for a man his age, took publicly took the shot to encourage “vaccine hesitant” blacks to take it. But his noble effort backfired. He died two weeks later. Naturally, the vaccine pushers said his death was not related to the shot. Those people must think that all Americans are idiots. Well, only most are.

    Dishonest or ignorant “vaccine pushers” will do so prior to an investigation into what he died of. Given that he was 86 years old we’ve got to admit that death on any one day is not unexpected (the worst of the deniers are I think the ones who claim “(almost) all” or “most” who die from COVID-19 “already had one foot in the grave”, or use a claimed average to distract from all the younger people who die).

    I think most people on Unz.com would say I’m a “vaccine pusher,” but I constantly point out if you give any drug or biologic to tens of millions of people, it will most certainly main and kill some of them. Thus you need to do a risk/benefit analysis, and not just for immediate death, as at least one other person in this sprawling set of comments has pointed out morbidity from COVID-19 is very significant.

    For the latest in academic research on this using data from millions of people in the US Veterans Health Administration, see starting here. Two bottom lines from memory: for the 70,000 veterans who didn’t require hospitalization, median age about 60 with one fourth below 42 years old, survival after 30 days then resulted in death for 0.8% of them in the next six months. For the 13,500 hospitalized vs. a control group of an equal number previously hospitalized for seasonal flu all who made it through 30 days, their disease was much worse than with the flu.

    Morbidity is laid out in detail, it can be a vascular disease that can attack any? part of your body, that just happens to be transmitted by respiration and attacks that system first. You really want to avoid contracting it in case you roll snake eyes, at least until we understand why it has such a wide dispersal of morbidity and mortality.

    • Thanks: MEH 0910
    • Replies: @Dumbo
    , @durd
    , @michael888
  109. Anonymous[302] • Disclaimer says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Maybe Curmudgeon your words ” .. the panic of all of the so-called health authorities over a “disease” that has an Infection Mortality Rate of .01-.05% was hyped to..” should reflect the pandemic as a plan designed to allow various themes to hype into existence the enslavement of nation states; t o make the nation state the command center charged to implement without delay Oligarch instructions?
    Was the threat of virus; an element inserted into the pandemic(plan) which was designed to :
    1. In America to promote mail in voting to crush opposing one vote per voter democracy?
    1b. to silence open 5g debate, and to hide the new kinds of deaths predicted by some from 5g deployment?
    1c. to hide global deployment of 5g w\enables control, manipulate and destroy power, over humanity. and
    1d. to elevate slave drivers posing as security agencies so they could implement Oligarch and corporate
    directed control over all aspects of human behavior?
    2. Did UK PTB use the virus threat to deny rising anti-oligarch politicians access to democratic power?
    3. name a nation state and then evaluate for yourself how the virus threat fit the pandemic(plan).
    4. In China how was the virus threat used .?
    5. In Spain, was virus threat used to keep the Catalonians from erasing a corrupt government
    6. in France, was virus threat used to block massive street demonstrations take down of established gov?
    7. Syria, Egypt, Iran, Venezuela and Yemen the virus threat may have been used as a weapon of war?
    8. So how did the virus threat impact the global market place?
    a. humanity became the experimental guinea pigs for big phrama.,
    b. what did big pharma need to test: the capacity to tolerate mRNA bio-engineered change in humans?
    c. the question is what profit making capacity do RNA scripts (vaccines) have for the monopoly powers?
    d. Why did the legislatures pass laws the immunized vaccines against lawsuits?
    e. Did lockdown create economic firewalls which blocked\bankrupted open competitions to oligarch power?

    Did pandemic (a plan) call for virus threat to be used to bring down, change or promote politicians, force laws to be changed, or bring about political project change (lock down powers everywhere)?

    In other words was pandemic (a game plan or a war plan) designed to use threat of virus as a means weapon to destroy nation state intervention on behalf of those the nation state governs? The end goal of the Pandemic plan were targeted to end independent human freedoms and to restrict human behaviors The virus threat enabled the Monopoly powered Wall Street Corporate Oligarchs to replace public want, for Oligarch command. The target nation state leadership would respond to the global Oligarch command, thereby eliminating the delay from question by the governed or process of politics. The pandemic(a plan) strikes me as a conspiracy to deny global humanity its hard earned right to self determination, to its own rule over its own life, and to the privilege of liberty and to the pursuit of personal happiness. So was the pandemic executed against humanity at the point of a virus?

    Seems to me, the pandemic was designed to remove bottom up politics from options available to the politically determined leadership of each nation state franchisee in the nation state system of nation state franchises. Ideally, I suppose, the pandemic would refuse nation state leaderships the authority to respond to the governed. Instead the nation state leaders would respond only to Oligarch directed commands.

    Who besides the wealthy Oligarch own the nation state franchising system?

    The plan (code named “pandemic”) seems to have been to position the Oligarch so the people’s voice cannot be heard? The pandemic would avoid interference from local nation state politics, instead, the Oligarch would instruct the nation state and the nation state would conform behavior of its governed to Oligarch issued commands. Did the pandemic(a plan) intend to establish oligarch control over each human element in the global world. Was the pandemic(plan) designed to reduce each human to an identified and branded element? Are those elements suppose to “live and serve” in slavey at the pleasure of the wealthy global Oligarch?

  110. GMC says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Oh Ya ? How come we never heard about all those flight crews that served those Chinese – not being totally wiped out from the virus – not one story did I come across showing that those flight crews were severely affected. My friend in Chicago told me the same thing you just wrote and I asked him about this phenomenon. The NWO CIA, mossad, any embassy, any airbase could play Contrails all day long with a virus – and nobody would even think about it. It was spread by the Makers and their allies.

    • Agree: Alfred
  111. John

    If you haven’t read the Wiki on Hassler Whitney…go read it. It’s very interesting. Majority White America used to produce White Men such as Hassler Whitney. His early research ended up providing the geometric-topological intuition behind the Nash-Kuiper implicit function theorem. It’s a very interesting history that developed and is immersed(‘I suppose this is a pun) with Smale’s sphere inversion theorem…up through Thurston’s corrugation technique. I think you reviewed Morin’s….the blind topologist…..book about eversions with lots of hand drawings…..a while back. Mathematics becomes alive when seen as an organism that grows and differentiates over time.

    The importation of Chinese LEGAL IMMIGRANTS is out and out race war against the HISTORIC NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN MAJORITY. America could have and should have remained labor self sufficient post-1965-post-Nixon visit to China to meet with the Chairman. What’s left of Gruman Corp is now surrounded by Greater India. Remember Billy Joel’s song Brenda and Eddy? The area surrounding Gruman Corp is now Sandeep and Priti…

    The Republican Party was always a partner with the Democratic Party in the GREAT REPLACEMENT….Ronald Reagan was always a phony Fart Joke…..

    • Replies: @Alden
  112. UNIT472 says:

    Senator Tom Cotton made a curious comment on Maria Bartoromo’s show almost a year ago. He noted phone traffic to the Wuhan Institute of Virology was almost non existent during October 2019. This is what you might expect if a lab leak occurred and the facility had to be de-contaminated.If this phone traffic data is accurate it could be the smoking gun to confront China with.

    Of course assigning responsibility for the covid 19 outbreak and its coverup to China could/would open a pandora’s box of political, civil and criminal liability that the US government would not want opened.

    • Replies: @Wade
  113. We all owe a debt of gratitude towards Ron for this excellent website, his courage in putting his name on it, and his many thought provoking writings. That being said his theory on the origin of this virus is ridiculous. Pretty funny to see a man who publishes Steve Sailer proudly and confidently slashing away with Occam’s butter knife on this topic.

  114. Why not both. The virus escaped the lab, found its way to the wet market first, germinated there for a while before wiggling its way out to be used by the authorities in many countries as an excuse to bring about more tyrannical measures over their respective populations.

  115. @Trinity

    I am seventy-three. I am yet to put on a mask and will not. I almost got into a fight at some stores over that. At one place, the guard told me not to hit him. I wasn’t. Then he threatened to call the police. I told him to go ahead. I went about my business and left when I was ready.

    I have been around plenty of people who have tested positive (most of those probably false positives). I’ve been around people who got sick. They all recovered without any problems. I haven’t had one sniffle. This whole thing is a total scam. Not that the virus doesn’t exit. There are viruses everywhere. But that the government is lying to us as a means to control us.

    • Thanks: Trinity, Achmed E. Newman
  116. DaveE says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Best Comment of 2021 so far ! Thanks!

    Always great to hear from someone with actual EXPERIENCE!

  117. Run Onz is controlled opposition. Nobody would even know who Godfree Roberts is if Run didn’t publish him. Same goes for uber crank emeritus Larry Romanoff. Why would Run put these two spooky nobodies in his webzine, if they are nothing but inept pro China propagandists? Could it be that Onz is the wannabe king of pro China propagandists, and the only thing that differentiates his perspective from Godfree’s and Romanoff’s is his facile dismissal of the 2019 COVID epidemic coverup that the CDC falsely attributed to vaporizers? I’m pretty sure Larry pointed out the Wuhan military games before anyone else. But where is Larry now? Warding off the vengeful spirit of Emma Goldman?

    It may not be the mainstream, but this website still presents an Overton window built to deep state specifications. Yes, it allows you an “alternate” perspective. But it still endeavors to keep the truth outside of the frame.

    • Agree: gay troll
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  118. @GMC

    Moron

    The corona virus is lethal to people 85 and older…

  119. Piglet says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Fort Detrick, where they were trying to force the Ebola virus into the human genome, being shut down by the CDC for massive safety violations in 2019 is certainly nothing to investigate, because the military said nothing escaped.

    Perhaps a lab on post was shut down but I can assure you that Fort Detrick itself is still very open and there are no plans to close the post. A lab on post is not the same as the entire post.

    • Replies: @Cho Seung-Hui
  120. utu says:

    Taiwan which succeeded in virus suppression by acting early (Dec. 31, 2019) via strict quarantines for all new arrivals and effective contact tracing is hit with new cases of unknown origin. The source of 70% new cases is unknown.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/15/taiwan-records-180-new-cases-in-islands-worst-covid-outbreak-of-pandemic (15 May 2021)

    Of the 180 cases, 132 were reportedly without a known source. There were 89 were recorded in Taipei city, 75 in New Taipei and the rest scattered in other counties.

    In Taiwan the belief that Covid is artificial.and that it came from lab leak of a bioweapon was common from the very beginning and the theories of virus release were floated by their media but unlike this one:

    Chinese military news agency discloses 2019-nCoV was product of lab: Guo Wengui. (Feb 6,2020)
    https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3871486

    As conspiracies about the origin of the Wuhan coronavirus (2019-nCoV) surface in recent weeks, exiled Chinese businessman Guo Wengui (郭文貴) said on Tuesday (Feb. 4) that Chinese military news network Xilu claimed the virus was engineered by the United States, which is strangely at odds with what Chinese health authorities have said.

    they were always pointing finger at Communist China. Very likely that the Taiwanese paranoia played a positive role in virus suppression.

  121. “dispositively”??? LOL. I think you made that word up.

  122. Dumbo says:
    @Bill P

    I originally thought the virus emerged from nature like SARS 1.

    Who says it “emerged from nature”? It was likely just an earlier (failed) prototype, with not enough contagion.

  123. Dumbo says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    “Vaccine pusher”? Hell, you’re like Pfizer and Moderna’s advertising boy at UR. If you’re doing it for free, you must be quite a fool — with all the billions that they have, I’m sure that they could spare at least a small percentage for web propaganda.

  124. @obwandiyag

    why does the possibility of the extinction of humanity not bother me!!! and that is not a question!

    obwandiyag ! plausible argument and if it turns out to be right the human species is toast..at the very least reduced totally to existential ignominy…which would lead to extinction soon enough anyway

    that this stupid fuck of a human species dies off is no emotional pain to me at all but a kind of relief. I can think of a few people whom i know and used to know as worthwhile. there are none now..no one I know worth saving.

    if the human species was worthwhile we would not be at this current comprehensive incensed. we would have long put a stop to the zionists, rendered them helpless in the world save for living regularly. we would have long put s stop to capitalism, to hunger and poverty, lack of education and mal education, racism would not have been allowed…there would have been no need to create it in the first place

    this human species had done and allowed so much implausible, pointless criminality over its history what the fuck is the point of it all?

    it makes no sense at all with or for one family, no matter how extended to own what- 2-thirds of the world: Rothschilds?

    what sense does it make to have to watch Bill Gates all the time on air waves..one of the most gross, nasty, ugly, disgusting people who have ever lived. and there are lesser ones even more despicable, whose face one cannot avoid like Boris Johnson over on England!

    [MORE]

    then Biden and |Harris..and as |I speak of Harris what about this woman right here?
    https://www.thecitizen.co.tz/tanzania/news/president-samia-rings-changes-of-regional-commissioners--3401358

    this woman took part in the murder of her president and succeeded him when her murderous work was done. the Deep State did not go in and kill her president Magufuli with their own hands. he was against them and their Covid nonsense… fought them all the way. they killed him but got the Tanzanians to do it themselves. that would have been the MO.

    They all in that Tanzanian government knew the deal, killed their leader and president and took over from him in the interest of the global deep state. and this woman had to have been involved. she was vice president. and now Tanzania is not longer opposed to the Covid directions straight from Washington. all that Magufuli refused to do relative to Covid in Tanzania has been and is being done to the Tanzanian people by this woman right here

    and it is the same all over Africa where the greed and total wholesale betrayal of the nations and peoples of Africa has been taking place comprehensively for a longtime now. and the African people let it go on for generations now. they love it exactly the way it is. there is no reason at all therefore to be concerned whether Africans live or die

    its the same everywhere. and the division is getting worse than it ever was between ordinary peoples within nations and between peoples of the different nations. there is open ordinary hostility on every level of life among ordinary peoples. instead of ordinary people coming together to bell our collective, systematic tormentors and executioners, we are more ready to kill each other

    for the reason of hostility I have stopped shopping save for essentials. I buy in bulk so as not to exposes myself to the routine hostility involved in the general contact exposure involved in shopping

    there is no way out of this now save the end of humanity. how many millions have the vaccinated already…a vast amount anyway, hundreds of millions of people, maybe even a billion or more! I think we can safely say goodbye to those people at some coming point not too far ahead. from here on out the world will become, is becoming a zionists hellhole right in front of our eyes.

    look the criminals are right there and no one does or says a dam thing to them. Bill Gates goes about his business laughing at us all the way. Bill Gates never stops laffing in our faces. Bill Gate goes about his business in more safety than all of us combined. not one human or group of humans thinks of arresting him, will not harm a hair on his body regardless…would protect him if by chance he is attacked

    human extinction. good! let it happen! as Picard used to say ‘Make it so!’

  125. DaveE says:
    @Trinity

    Who created the virus? Guess? I know I have. haha.

    Uh…… well…… Ya’ think it may be the most insane, diabolical tribe of self-worshiping control freaks to ever slither on this planet? The ones who call themselves “chosen” and lust for the enslavement or extermination of the pesky Goyim and are maybe a little frustrated that, after 2,700 years of demonically-inspired tricks, they still are mostly hated by the entire world?

    I dunno. Maybe they just moved all their bio-warfare labs to China where the Goyim have yet to awaken. Hell, the Chinese are still the best manufacturers to exploit……

    • Agree: Trinity
  126. SafeNow says:

    “legions of observers sifting, weighing, and arguing”

    Unfortunately, Mr. Derb, the sifting/weighing/arguing model of science yielded, in the elite universities, to the grant-money/career-protection model. And this retreat into silence and inaction occurred just when we needed them the most, because the CDC is a political institution, not a science institution.

    Adding to this, and creating a perfect storm, was the predilection of Americans to embrace what has been called “the con-man style” and “the indigenous American berserk.”

  127. Blissex says:
    @Wayne Lusvardi

    «the recommended protocol for treatment of the mysterious C-19 that was published in Lancet and adopted worldwide as the standard of care. But it was apparently weaponized to bring about deaths. So, was there collusion between Wuhan and Lancet?»

    This argument seems ridiculous to me, many countries have adopted different approaches over time and nothing gets “adopted worldwide as a standard of care” and forever, especially if it has fatal effects, doctors worldwide are not obedient idiots.

    That argument could be pure misdirection, because the difference in sickness and death rates has been huge but not because of Lancet articles, but because some areas like China-mainland, China-Taiwan, India-Kerala, New Zealand, Korea-south, Vietnam have adopted a state funded and organized test-trace-isolate approach and have head very low rates, and some areas run by neoliberal parties have adopted an approach of halfbacked lockdowns and mass vaccinations, because of their ideology that “take personal responsibility” applies to infectious diseases and that big pharma corporations are the saviours of humanity. Following the old reaganista principle that ““The nine most terrifying words in the English language are ‘I’m from the government, and I’m here to help’”.

    The difference between the USA and China-Taiwan is the real scandal, and all this discussion about where SARS-2 originated is interesting but distracts from it:

    * https://www.cdc.gov.tw/EnTotal cases 224,617 Excluded 220,290 Confirmed 1290 Deaths 12

    * IB Times, 2021/01/29: “Taiwan Reports 3% GDP Growth In Pandemic-hit 2020, Beating China

    * Taiwan News, 2021/02/09: “Exports jumped 36.8 percent from a year earlier to US\$34.27 billion in January, the highest monthly figure on record, according to data compiled by the ministry. The MOF attributed the growth to surging exports in the rising field of remote work applications, as well as traditional exports and a low comparison base compared with January 2020, when the Lunar New Year holiday cut short the number of business days, the data indicated. On a month-to-month basis, Taiwan’s outbound sales also rose 3.9 percent in January, the data indicated.

  128. @The Soft Parade

    What difference does it make where the COVID come from?

    If its origin was artificial it matters very much in terms of preventing a repeat, or since we’re very dumb and “the only lesson we learn from history is that we don’t learn from history” more likely serious action after another release, accidental or on purpose, of something more lethal. Or perhaps a variant of concern becomes a significantly more lethal strain. That’s not likely, “It’s not the job of a virus to make people deathly ill: it’s the job of a virus to make more virus” as Derek “Things I Won’t Work With” Lowe pointed out, but the two can coincide.

    • Replies: @The Soft Parade
  129. Virologist David Baltimore former President of CalTech gave a statement to the Bulletin Of Atomic Scientists, something to the effect, I saw the “furin cleavage site” in the viral sequence (not of natural origin) AKA created in a lab and knew at once that it was a smoking gun showing the origin of this virus. Further, a second renowned expert, a former CDC director Dr. Robert Redfield, said in a widely publicized interview, that no other SARS related virus has acquired this furin cleavage site or why the COVID genetic sequence is composed of human preferred codons.

    A journalist by the name of Nicholas Wade has over a number of years, published article in Nature Science ans the NYT, wrote an article showing that there is documented evidence that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was experimenting with “gain-of-function” research-i.e., experiments that augment the contagiousness
    of coronavirus to humans. in short, there is no explanation as to why a “natural” epidemic was found in Wuhan and nowhere else. In support of this notion, the Chinese hve tested 80,000+ animals in seach of an intermediate host for COVID 19(84) without result but did find hosts in the intermediate sources (animals) for both SARS 1 & MERS.None of this speculation is meant to suggest a clandestine biowarfare program or incident. In any case, the US cannot point an accusing finger here, assume the moral or ethical high ground either. There are ongoing congressional inquiries into allegations of the Pentagon seeking to weaponize insects, including ticks! Rep. Christopher Smith of the Lyme Disease Caucus, made such an accusation.This shouldn’t surprise anyone. Sixty years ago, Congressman Richard D. McCarthy of Upstate New York published a book titled The Ultimate Folly. The book expensively details our military’s use of biological weapons against North Koreans ditto Vietnamese, many laboratory protocol mistakes, accidental leaks, engineering errors, various U.N. Policy Accords and those downright stupid decisions like snail mailing active VEE from one bio-research center to another..and then loosing it along the way! Maryland’s Fort Detrick was (most likely) funded to perform experiments on insects and turn them into biological weapons.

    Western Occident democracies, this includes the U.S.A. have been slowly suffocated by deceptive testimony such as “that’s classified information” It is a formidable barrier, is utter jingoistic nonsense constantly spewed from the lips of many Intel or Pentagon officials. The secrecy and damage done to societies everywhere are compounded by judicial systems that abuse their authority with all too familiar bench decision(s) and to paraphrase them: the brief and legal arguments presented by legal beagle xyz has no standing and will therefor not be considered (heard).

    The merging of secrecy coupled with a corrupt judicial system destroys any likelihood for reforms to experimental labs, their safety policies and procedural methods, honest diplomacy, addressing legitimate claims for damages compensation, peace between rival powers or between governments and their citizens. A third quotation to ponder here….you won’t need Edgar Cayce or a crystal ball to know what’s next: “NO PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE”

  130. @Godfree Roberts

    Have you seen the below-linked news story from Florida?

    “TAMPA, Fla. (WFLA) – As many as 171 people in Florida may have been infected with COVID-19 months before officials said the virus was in the state, data shows.

    Records show that symptoms of coronavirus were reported to the state’s Department of Health as early as Jan. 1 – exactly two months before Gov. Ron DeSantis announced that the first two cases had been confirmed.

    According to state data, which was changed Monday to remove the date of symptoms reported, 171 people reporting symptoms in 40 counties across the state eventually tested positive for coronavirus.

    […]”

    https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/florida-coronavirus-up-to-171-cases-detected-in-jan-feb-health-officials-say/

    I wonder why any state government would want to suppress any information that challenges the official time line of Covid-19 in the U.S.?

    And then of course there’s the problematic mayor of Belleville, NJ, Michael Melham, who problematically claims that he was sick with Covid-19 back in Nov 2019, and who problematically subsequently tested positive for antibodies.

    https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/essex/belleville/2020/04/30/belleville-nj-mayor-tests-positive-coronavirus-antibodies/3057925001/

  131. @Achmed E. Newman

    Whether planned or not, the year-long (and counting) PanicFest that has been going on, with its use by governments all around the world to implement more Police Statism (the case here) or Orwellianism (in China) is the BIG story. The origin is related to that, of course.

    That is the main point, but it, unfortunately to most conspiracy “theorists” – buries all their fantasies. Reaction of the “world” clearly shows that there was not some big planning behind it. Simply- because global changes in the human world are not planned. Big events like Covid (or rise of Christianity, the Renaissance, Reformation, Mongol expansion, the age of Exploration, Industrial revolution, both world wars, dominance of the West,…)- are not planned. There are no laws of history (sorry Hegel, Marx & Spengler) behind them, nor some group of people, nor ETs.

    Covid pandemic showed:

    * complete collapse of all efforts to create some imaginary New World Order. It, contrary to all fantasies, strengthened nation-states & boundaries in virtually the whole world. Even within the EU the project of some mega-state is in shambles.

    * showed general confusion & incompetence of so called national elites & traditional national behavior of various people- Italians are chaotic, Japanese are robotic

    * showed that whatever you do- you’ll be wrong: masks are both useful and useless; lockdowns work, but generally- not too long and not too much; people are really a raging herd, desperately wanting to party & go to silly games (sports) that somehow fill their vacuous lives

    * showed that, even if originated in lab- biowarfare is impossible because Mother Nature is wiser & she will always produce new alterations in molecular structure that will defeat the original scheme (personally, I don’t believe in any lab-Covid hypothesis: the level of science is too low, and molecular biologists & their colleagues are too dumb to produce something so great as Covid (it kills- but not too many; it is real- but there is enough space for masses of dumbos to claim “it’s just a flu”; it incapacitates & makes permanent invalids- but only about 10% of its victims; it is- and is not. Sorry- no human effort is capable of such an ingenuity)

    * showed that, ultimately, everyone has lost (the fact that some billionaires made additional billions does not change anything, globally).

     Covid is a huge joke on all humankind. It has shown that hubris always crumbles, and that big plans of big countries and big corporations and big elites are nothing more than a comical side of a soap opera that is human life.

    • Agree: Marshal Marlow
  132. I read Wade’s article (along with an even longer article which appeared in NY Magazine by a guy named Nicholson). Both make a persuasive case for revisiting the lab-escape theory. Frankly, I never bought into the “wet market” bit, especially after learning that there is a biolab (actually TWO biolabs) within walking distance of the market, and the two articles only reinforce what I have suspected all along. I will still allow for the increasingly outside possibility of direct animal-to-human transmission only because we have not accessed the lab records. Nor will we. On that note I agree with The Derb that those records have probably long since been eighty-sixed.

    Incidentally, early on Trump advanced the lab-escape theory. In so doing did he spill the beans, inadvertently or otherwise? What did the government–specifically the CIA–know and when did they know it?

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  133. @Anonymous

    Overall you make a good summary of a lot of the issues and their possibilities. On some details:

    It has been argued that more mutations of Covid have been discovered in the US than in China or Europe….

    I don’t believe this to be the case, but it depends on how much that leads into the rest of the sentence I snipped, and what you mean by mutations. Part of this is how hard you look, specifically how many infections you sequence the genome of. Mutations happen all the time and are used as “molecular clocks” as well as to trace lineages (but beware the “founder effect”). The last time I checked, the U.K. was doing more of this than the rest of the world combined, so in terms of variants not of concern they’d by definition find the most mostly inconsequential mutations.

    The greater number of Covid deaths can be attributed to misreporting of deaths from other causes from state sponsored manipulation.

    I don’t think this is consistent with the “all cause” morality statistics, that is the total number of death certificates (maybe subtracting those from immediate trauma) starting in March 2020 or so compared for the last few years, where good statistics are done. Just confirmed for the US the week ending March 20, 2021 finally got excess deaths below the baseline (in the US you must go back eight weeks or more to allow death certificates to trickle up from localities to the states to the CDC). Look at the timeline and it’s grim, if anything the Officially scored COVID-19 deaths are a significant under count. Which based on new data about delayed mortality within six months of surviving it for 30 days makes sense.

    The Covid virus’ capabilities and limitations may have been well understood by intelligence operatives in the US and China.

    This claim is the primary reason I’m replying to you. It would require significant testing on humans, like hundreds or thousands of people, the latter sort of number because it indeed doesn’t kill people at high rates. To do it right they’d also need to be tracked for some time afterwords WRT morbidity (well covered in the above link) and delayed mortality, and you’d also want to figure out what sort of hospital treatment is needed. Which if done was not released to clinicians anywhere in the world, they had to discover it the hard way, “written in blood.” All this of course doesn’t mean if such an effort was done it was done well or correctly.

  134. @Dumbo

    with all the billions that they have, I’m sure that they could spare at least a small percentage for web propaganda.

    Certainly you must realize there are significant advantages in not having to note after every pro-, or really, not negative towards Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna comment I make that I’m getting paid by one or both or some industry group.

    If I was getting paid for my posting, it would quite a bit more detailed and people like you would be all the more displeased, for I’d have to be reading up on a lot of details which I’m only learning as needed, mostly for myself and my friends and family, or as they interest me.

    While I’m at it, I can so far, nearly two weeks after my second dose, recommend the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine. But your mileage may vary, and you may roll snake eyes.

  135. @Dystopian

    So how did the evil Chinese communists manage to infect the residents at the Greenspring Retirement Community in Springfield, VA, in June and July of 2019?

    https://www.mcknights.com/news/mystery-grows-as-3rd-resident-dies-from-still-unidentified-respiratory-illness/

    And how did the evil Chinese communists infect the mayor of Belleville, NJ, in Nov 2019?

    https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/essex/belleville/2020/04/30/belleville-nj-mayor-tests-positive-coronavirus-antibodies/3057925001/

    • Replies: @Marshal Marlow
  136. Let’s Make a Deal!
    Will it be what’sbehind: door #1, door #2 or door # 3?
    My advice to the contestants; use your common sense, your gut. Qui Bono … who benefits?
    Who increased in wealth and power? Figure that out and you may better your chances.

  137. Where Did the Covid Come from? Inquiring Minds Want to Know!

    Too bad the mind of John Derbyshire is apparently not among them.

  138. @Prester John

    May I ask why you never bought the wet market theory? Was that based on your relevant scientific expertise? (This is not put aggressively. It’s just that it would be helpful to know).

    Why do you think the proximity of WIV labs tends to negate the wet market theory? Isn’t it equally consistent with it being someone at the WIV who noticed the connection because, for example, a staff member who frequented the market got sick and reported that his/her family exhibited similar symptoms?

    • Replies: @Prester John
  139. Nick Wade can masturbate forever over the origin pf SARS-CoV-2, but this argument will go on forever until those samples from the infected seniors and fatalities at Greenspring RC and Heatherwood RC are tested and confirmed for SARS-CoV-2 after it escaped in a year-long breach from Fort Detrick between 2018 and 2019.

    In 2017, manpig Pompeo re-authorized the start of gain-of-function experiments for biowarfare purposes in all US biowarfare labs across the US and Europe.

    The predecessor of SARS-CoV-2 originated naturally in bat caves in Yunan, China, but as RaTG-13 it only became infectious after US scientists in USAMRIID Fort Detrick weaponized it into SARS-CoV-2.

    The early variants escaped, but only caused small clusters in the US because the early variants were not very infectious and were mistaken or covered up as influenza by manpigPompeo and his bearded SantafuckClaus Redfield.

    This important point is not understood by many trying to understand the origin of the virus, including Ron Unz.

    As Godfree Roberts points out, the CDC admits in public thru the RedCross Cancer study that SARS-CoV-2 was widespread in small clusters throughout the USA already in the October-November-December 2019 period and probably already widespread even earlier in Europe, having already spread there from the USA.

    After that SARS-CoV-2 mutated in Europe, Asia and China, coming to light when China’s early warning system was triggered.

    The rest is history. The Chinese dealt with it, and the USA fucked up.

    We had a masturbating Jackass for a POTUS, who refused to take the virus seriously, sabotaged all efforts to combat or contain it, and caused probably a million US deaths from his dick-sucking stupidity.

    We had weirdfuck imbeciles like Rand Paul, Paula “I-beat-the-evil-spirits away”White, Jerry “cuckold” Falwell Jnr, Kenneth “laugh-like-a-demon” Copeland, Sweaty MarcoRubio, Lizard-like Ted Cruz, MTG, Man-pig Pompeo, Microcephalic Tom Cotton, monkey-suit Navarro, Ching-Chong Pottinger and all sorts of other sycophants sucking on Trump’s dick, helping him let the virus kill Americans.

    Even naive Ann Coulter, who spent years sucking on Trump’s dick, couldn’t take it anymore.

    Gawd! What a disgusting, degenerate pornshitshow that was.

  140. @Rahan

    You’re standing on the stern of the Titanic contemplating its wake

    America is an organism which used to have pretty terrifically organized interaction between its “brain” and its “nervous system” and its “sense organs”, but that peak has passed. Maybe, hopefully, it can be reclaimed. But this is not where America is now. Little by little, America retreated into solipsism and dysfunction, first slowly, slowly, then fast. This can and does lead to real life changes.

    Until you admit that we’ve crossed the point of no return your excellent mind will remain useless for purposes of things here and now. Specifically, in the permanent absence of truth–for which all those masks are signs of its renouncement–what do you hope to reclaim, and how will you do it? With what truth?

    • Replies: @Rahan
  141. @Anonymous

    I would add one e element ofcacquired knowledge from observation to your analysis (without saying I agree with it all!).

    From a very extensive study of politicians thinking and motives I would not put much store in this

    “The greater number of Covid deaths can be attributed to misreporting of deaths from other causes from state sponsored manipulation. In short, Covid may be primarily a propaganda exercise which has produced useful political effects.”

    No, politicians were immediately keen to avoid blame. Above all, in prosperous countries in particular, that meant avoiding blame for lack of oxygen, ventilators, protective equipment etc. which would see the health systems rendered inadequate and fear of deaths widespread. The fact that it *might* kill fewer people than annual flu was irrelevant because that was an unknown and politicians soon discovered that they were rewarded in opinion polls for being seen to be taking hard decisions like lock downs.

  142. @Ron Unz

    Sorry if I am repeating, the virus is not a bioweapon. The “virus” is all these things – Chinese air pollution, 5G introduction, fake cycle-inflated PCR testing, the wide COVID definition that includes every condition, hospital \$\$ bonuses for COVID “deaths”. The real bioweapon is the “vaccine (genetic engineering)” + media push to vaccinate ASAP. The vaccines make a foreign protein in cells in your body and your detox system attacks your own body tissue that express that protein. Who made the “vaccine” to kill and give chronic disease (slow kill), that’s the question.

    • Replies: @Blissex
  143. @Dumbo

    There almost has to be >1 person posting as That Would Be Telling.

    Which in a way is even more impressive. The virtuoso dissembling and consistent rhetorical voice — e.g., buddying up with “we” and “our” and flattering any notion about provenance, as long as people can be nudged to take the shot(s) — have been first rate.

  144. @GreatSocialist

    Although I think Ron Unz has poured scorn on suggestions that there is evidence of earlier infections with a new coronavirus in America yours does appear to be a coherent account without absurdities. May I suggest that it would be more persuasive if couched in, shall we say, more boring language.

    At the risk of being accused of laziness may I ask where you get your evidence of Pompeo’s reopening the gain-of-function research? BTW, am I right to infer that such research could have the legitimate purpose of allowing dangerous natural variations to be anticipated?

  145. @That Would Be Telling

    You provide a perfectly empirical strategy to an unearthly problem. You say we’ll swim out into the river and retrieve the bad things thrown into it from somewhere upstream.

    And by “seeing” the problem in this way you shall see and not perceive, and that by hearing yourself say this you won’t understand, lest you be converted by the truth which can make you free of the alleged “jews” who otherwise perpetuate your self-imposed blindness. Who said this? The guy they nailed to the cross.

  146. Sbin says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Funny how vamp bro deaths mysteriously disappeared.
    Also clusters of nursing home deaths around Virginia area are never mentioned.
    When the likes of Pompeo Cotton and friends start yelling China China China you know the narrative is complete fraud.

  147. MGB says:
    @The Alarmist

    the same researcher behind the pharma induced deaths of years of AIDS research.

    Regrettably, wasn’t able to follow whole thread on previous COVID whodunnit, but I thought it was Luc Montagnier who speculated COVID was man made and contained HIV sewn in? French intelligence used to have the pelotas to poke a stick in the eye of US intel from time to time (see ‘Farewell America’) so maybe Luc was referring to the theory of HIV being the child of US bio weapons research, introduced through hepatitis vaccines, etc. . . As is COVID and the COVID vaccination program.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  148. Blissex says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    «Even within the EU the project of some mega-state is in shambles. * showed general confusion & incompetence of so called national elites»

    It actually showed the commitment to neoliberal ideology in the USA, UK, and much of the EU: “rugged individualism” in telling people that not getting infected and not infected others was a matter of “taking individual responsibility”, and that the epidemic would be solved by “saviours of humanity big pharma”.

    In areas with a more civilized government epidemics are considered a public health issue, to confronted by state funded and organized approached like mass test-trace-isolate, and as a result those areas (from enormous like China-mainland to smaller like New Zealand) have had small sickness and death rates despite fewer restriction on gatherings, shopping, travel.

    And the difference between the politics of the USA/UK/… handling of the epidemic and that of more civilized areas is the really big and compelling issue, much more so than debating as to where it originated.

    • Agree: utu
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  149. @Ron Unz

    Thank you, Mr. Unz. Whether or not I agree with you on any given topic, your openness and willingness to share your thoughts is inspiring. Thank you.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes, Jim Don Bob
  150. durd says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    You really want to avoid contracting it in case you roll snake eyes, at least until we understand why it has such a wide dispersal of morbidity and mortality.

    I really don’t understand why, but avoiding cruise ships could help in not getting a case of Covid.

    Planes, trains, buses, rallies and rioting seem safe, but ships for whatever reason should be a no-go.

    To be extra careful wear two masks, as makeshift DIY preparation is better than relying on corporations and science to make something that would actually protect the public from this highly contagious deadly disease.

    I am not qualified to give advice yet feel I should put this observation out there for the public to think about.

    It just may save a life.

  151. Blissex says:
    @Big Doreen

    « The real bioweapon is the “vaccine (genetic engineering)” + media push to vaccinate ASAP.»

    That to me looks like being a victim or a spreader of neoliberal propaganda that the only vaccines that matter are those marketed by “big pharma” transnationals.

    Actually there are around 200 vaccines from dozens of countries and organizations:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-covid-vaccine-nationalism/
    https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-covid-vaccine-timeline/
    https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-covid-vaccine-research/

    In any case the vaccine aspect is rather secondary, those areas where more civilized governments have adopted a mass test-trace-isolate approach have had tiny sickness and death rates for the whole past year, with few restrictions, and are taking their time to vaccinate, to see what’s the best.

  152. @Rahan

    “America is an organism which used to have pretty terrifically organized interaction between its “brain” and its “nervous system” and its “sense organs”, but that peak has passed.”

    Been passed a long time ago, maybe early 1970s, when real median male wages reached a peak to which they have never returned.

    https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/the-typical-male-u-s-worker-earned-less-in-2014-than-in-1973/

    The US and UK have a central nervous system which has been taken over.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis

    The changes in the behavior of the infected nations are very specific, denigration of sexual continence, marriage, and childbearing, loss of control of media, banking and education (by which behaviours and culture are transmitted) , mass immigration (preferably by the least assimilable), financialisation of the economy, money printing.

    • Replies: @Rahan
  153. One day, trilli0ns of corona viruses decided to kayak across a great big ocean around the coast of South America…up north along the Atlantic to America…….And this is how the Corona Virus came to America…..Another Immigrant success story….

  154. @Blissex

    No.

    I’ve seen in smaller countries like Slovenia, Czech Republic etc.- they’ve been on the verge of the collapse (also, much more important & wealthy Austria, as well as Switzerland). There is nothing neo-Liberal in history, nor in current political, social & economic life of those countries.

    NZ is isolated, while China- I don’t trust their data. And even if they are completely true, they could be applied only in a culture with super-authoritarian regime & extremely malleable population, something which is present only in east Asia- and nowhere else.

  155. Skeptikal says:
    @The Real World

    “If the magnetism is real, could the fervent push to roll-out 5G figure into those “vaccines” somehow? ”

    Sure could . . .

  156. @Ron Unz

    Hmm… Ron Unz goes on a mad rave about Godfree Roberts citing certain data?

    Please expose more precisely the errors in that comment, Ron. Direct reply tearing it apart, please.

  157. Thought experiments:

    Chinese LEGAL IMMIGRATION had 0 to do with the Corona Virus outbreak in America…..

    If there had been post-1965 0 Chinese LEGAL IMMIGRANTS coming to a 90 percent White Demographic America….well, The Native Born White Working Class would have been worse off by many orders of magnitude….a much lower standard of Living…Therefore, it was worth the risk of importing the Corona Virus Han Viral Vector…

  158. anon[712] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Real World

    The persons shown in this video look like extras from “People of Walmart” videos on Youtube. In other words, the creme de la creme of society.

    If your blood or flesh was able to hold on to magnets this would most likely be due to being imbued with large amounts of iron, cobalt or nickel. You’d die long before your body could hold enough. This is a phony video and would only be believable by people who are totally ignorant in even the most basic principals of science. The-powers-that-be are rolling in the aisles seeing how well their dumbing-down efforts have been.

    • Replies: @The Real World
  159. Mark G. says:
    @Verymuchalive

    The last pandemic was Spanish Flu ( 1918-20). Estimates vary from 17m to 50m deaths. Nearly all are in the 20m to 30m range. Now the population of Earth in 1919 was 1.9bn. Now 2020, it is estimated at 7.8bn. If you scale 20m to 30m up to 2020 levels, you get 82m to 123m deaths.

    The response to this pandemic might have been justified if it was as serious as the last pandemic that had mask wearing and business shutdowns, the Spanish flu. However, it wasn’t. In addition to comparing death totals and adjusting for population, as you did, we should also look at the composition of the deaths. Many of the Spanish flu deaths took place among younger people. In the case of COVID, the average age of death was 78. These were also the portion of this age group already in the worst health and least likely to live much longer. Forty percent of deaths took place in nursing homes, where the average stay is nine months before death normally takes place.

    So the total years of life lost was actually much higher during the Spanish flu. Even there, the measures taken were not as extreme as what we just went through. Large gatherings were banned and places of entertainment like movie theaters and pool halls were shut down but stores remained open in many cities.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  160. Anon62 says:
    @Vidi

    Early in 2020 Taiwanese researchers found that 5 unique haplotypes of COVID-19 were circulating in the US while no other location, Wuhan China included, demonstrated the presence of more than one haplotype.

    A haplotype is a genetic variation on the original. Genetic variation occurs as a normal process in nature and corona viri are no exception. The location demonstrating 5 haplotypes is therefore likely to have hosted the circulating virus for a period of time greater than that of a location demonstrating a single haplotype.

    This set of assertions are not rocket scince and are well within the reduced mental capacity of any medical lab technician applying standard forms of clinical assay.

    For an as yet unknown reason, no state or medical authority, appears to be enegaged in a sincere investigation to identify the source of COVID-19. The most likely culprit state possesses the largest public microphone and appears intent on obfuscating the issue.

    I wonder why.

    • Agree: Vidi
  161. @Verymuchalive

    WHO figures say that there have been 3.83m deaths from COVID

    Sorry, my apologies, that should have been 3.38 m. So it’s even lower.

  162. Mistral says:

    The scientific study by John Derbyshire only deals with Whuan’s lab. What doing the same investigation on Fort Detrick?

  163. nsa says:

    Lon Unz velly velly jealous velly gleat velly smalt Godflee Loberts. Wu-wu vilus in Amelica long time 2015 pletending to be flu….not in Folt Dietlich test tube. Dummie Amelica not notice wu-wu until too late. Tlump want Amelica all dlink bleach plevent wu-wu make white people mole whiter than white. Lon velly not speak tluth make fun velly gleat Godflee no leason except velly spiteful. Lon own site pull lank all time. Lon need leeducation camp long time.

    • Replies: @Ann Nonny Mouse
  164. @Wizard of Oz

    What you mean, Wiz, is that Steve Brennan is paying Mr Unz a lot of money to let his agent Roberts publish a lot of rubbish. In fact, it probably keeps the website afloat and lets us badthinkers continue to comment.
    God bless Mr Brennan. C’mon, Wiz, I know you’re a skeptic, but surely you agree with the sentiment.

    PS I think Godfree Roberts is Ron’s equivalent to Steve Sailer’s Tiny Duck. Correct me if I’m wrong !

  165. Since not one country has declared war against China or USA for a bio weapon attack, there must be a global coverup or groupthink pay to play theater they are all play acting together in. The only pushback are from a couple of countries against certain name brand vaccines. That won’t last long once they’re shamed and their globalist overlords put pressure on them using political, financial or economic restraints.
    I can only imagine what comes next after this plandemic went better than planned.

    • Replies: @Skeptikal
  166. @anon

    Hhmm, says the person able to put forth absolutely nothing to prove what he/she claims. Just cranky opinion. Yawn….

    “People of Walmart”

    Btw, take a look around and travel a little….that’s what most of the human population looks like. Probably you too.

  167. @Wizard of Oz

    You may ask.

    It’s only a hunch. And if it proves wrong and it DID come out of a wet market (which remains conceivable in the absence of abundant and hard evidence to the contrary) then– so be it.

  168. Anon62 says:
    @Blissex

    Your post cites an Italian study which exhibits the follwoing abstract:

    Abstract: SARS-CoV-2 RBD-specific antibodies were detected in 111 of 959 (11.6%) individuals, starting from September 2019 (14%), with a cluster of positive cases (>30%) in the second week of February 2020 and the highest number (53.2%) in Lombardy.

    Conclusions: People with no symptoms not only were positive after the serological tests but had also antibodies able to kill the virus. This means that the new coronavirus can circulate among the population for long and with a low rate of lethality not because it is disappearing, but only to surge again”.

    This abstract refutes the claims made in your post.

    The citation does support the proposition that the COVID virus has likely been circulating within the global population for an extended period of time, that this virus exhibits low levels of lethality but may opportunistically target those persons already suffering from poor health, poor diet, poor access to medical attention and poor likihood of survival past 85 years of age.

    It also appears likely that the “virus scare” was opportunistically hyped for political reasons such as faulting Trump, concealing Fauci’s past involvement in gain of function research, or the global ambitions of the World Economic Forum, the profit seeking medical industrial system, and the proto-authoritarianism of many so called “democratic” governments.

    The reason COVID emerged from the shadows is due soley to the fact China has an extremely well functionning medical alert system, one able to detect and identify a pathogen after it has been circulating in the “advanced” west for an extended period of years.

  169. @GreatSocialist

    Can’t wait for your review of the current, degenerate, criminal, psychopathic, kiddie-diddling, epically-stupid, business-destroying administration. The one that hides behind face diapers and can’t speak a word publicly without a teleprompter or earpiece.

    Bidens new moniker is: crash test dummy. Perfect.

    You must be so happy….the USA is now paradise!

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
  170. The only question that matters is this physics question:How did the Wuhan Virus got from point A to point B? Where A=China….B=United States…

  171. @nsa

    I wouldn’t say spiteful. Certainly strange. Beyond that, LOL!!!

  172. @robwin

    I don’t agree that the Chinese reluctance to cooperate with outsiders to investigate the Wuhan facility necessarily means they are guilty of creating and releasing the virus. If they believed that the virus was a biological attack by an external actor against them, they would not want to share details of its lethality, transmissibility, or their measures to control it, because all of those details would be exactly the battle damage assessment that the launcher of the bio-attack would want. They had legitimate reasons to suspect an attack, so they treated it as war and therefore initially only released limited information.

  173. Where did Covid come from? From the media ether and Klaus Slob the cross dressing perv. It is a psyop, not real in anyway, has not been isolated, can not be detected with PCR, and only exists in the minds of men, very much like a religious belief – no evidence required.

    https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/10/08/the-smoking-gun-where-is-the-coronavirus-the-cdc-says-it-isnt-available/

    CDC Admits COVID-19 DOES NOT EXIST

    [MORE]

    no quantified virus isolates of the 2019-nCoV are currently available

    Every object that exists can be quantified, which is to say, measured. The use of the term “quantified” in that phrase means: the CDC has no measurable amount of the virus, because it is unavailable. THE CDC HAS NO VIRUS.

    A further tip-off is the use of the word ‘isolates.” This means NO ISOLATED VIRUS IS AVAILABLE.

    Another way to put it: NO ONE HAS AN ISOLATED SPECIMEN OF THE COVID-19 VIRUS.

    NO ONE HAS ISOLATED THE COVID-19 VIRUS.

    THEREFORE, NO ONE HAS PROVED THAT IT EXISTS.

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  174. @Trinity

    You refer to “the vaccine”. This confuses me as there are already many vaccines. They come from many different countries and have tens of thousands working on them in some way.

    For you to be right, all governments would have to be in on it. So would scientists including random university professors, again in many countries.

    I find this extremely improbable. Why don’t you?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  175. Anon62 says:
    @Chinesemom

    It is very strange that Iran which very few Chinese go to visit was the second country to be seriously hit, while other countries with a lot of Chinese visitors and tourists like Thailand and Malaysia weren’t hit until very late or have never been a serious problem.

    It is reported that the Military Games competition held in Wuhan included participation from Iranian forces.

    It is reported that members of the French military contingent were diagnosed with COVID like disease on their return to France.

    Given that the competition was likely strenous and demanded high levels of athletic exertion it is possible the participants had slightly reduced immune systems. If correct then it is possible that the nascent pathogen emerged in one or more participants and was transmitted to the others including the Iranian participants who then further transmitted the pathogen on return to Iran.

    I searched for the attendence / participation list shortly after the story broke and was GOOGLE was unable to locate any Internet source information on the military games, the particpants, or the finishing order. This strikes me as somewhat odd. Why bother attending unless your achievements are broadcast far and wide?

  176. @Yukon Jack

    [COVID-19] is a psyop, not real in anyway, has not been isolated….

    [Then quotes the CDC’s test manual from back before the CDC got a sample of the virus to culture, when it indeed had no virus, from a web article even created after the CDC updated their manual if memory serves.]

    Neat thing about genetics, it can be raw information, sequences of nucleotides of DNA or RNA, or amino acids in proteins. And thus, we are assured by our media, the very first sequence of SARS-CoV-2 was published in a Western computer database without authorization by a research group on January 10th. 2020 that was then closed down for “rectification,” and more sequences were published on that day.

    Which allowed the CDC to develop its own non-robust test that ran OK in their lab, and quoting from the timeline of their web page “SARS-CoV-2 Viral Culturing at CDC“:

    * On January 20, 2020, CDC received a clinical specimen collected from the first reported U.S. patient infected with SARS-CoV-2. CDC immediately placed the specimen into cell culture to grow a sufficient amount of virus for study.

    * On February 2, 2020, CDC generated enough SARS-CoV-2 grown in cell culture to distribute to medical and scientific researchers.

    * On February 4, 2020, CDC shipped SARS-CoV-2 to the BEI Resources Repository.

    You can procure their finest cultures from that repository.

    Your viewpoint is also extremely parochial, as if the rest of the world and its research on COVID-19 doesn’t exist, including their tests, cultures (Australia did it a few days before the CDC) etc. Wonder what’s causing the chaos and mass deaths in India right now….

    • Replies: @Yukon Jack
  177. Alden says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Before the so called Spanish Flu epidemic at Fort Riley there was a serious Spanish Flu outbreak in Haskell County Kansas and a few months earlier in China. It began in 1912 Haskell County, the entire state of Kansas lies under a major migratory bird fly way. Birds winter in S China and spread disease all over the world Soldiers at Riley and Leavenworth were afflicted with Spanish flu along with other Kansas residents years before USA entered the war and soldiers were vaccinated with the meningitis vaccine.

    Army Drs campaigned for more barracks, bunks further apart more room for distancing with open windows even at night in winter which of course meant more blankets and stoves. Both civilian health departments and Army Drs knew there was an air borne serious respiratory disease in Kansas years before the meningitis vaccine.

    Robert Kennedy Jr drug addict and life long grant grifter parasite.

    If anything good comes out of covid hoax; it will be that the idiots that believe all the liberal propaganda about diphtheria scarlet fever polio etc vaccines are now completely pro vaccine. Because the anti polio diphtheria antivaxxers are mindless fools who believe any liberal propaganda.

    BTW know what the latest cause of autism is? The liberals who make this stuff up have declared it’s no longer vaccines that cause autism. It’s the old stand by of every Personal Injury lawyer, lead paint.

    Spanish Flu appeared in Kansas 4 years before the meningitis vaccine.

  178. TRM says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Especially when you have those involved confessing/bragging about it. Dr Fleming goes over the whole GOF and includes videos with the people from NC and the USA openly talking about it.

    https://www.flemingmethod.com/

    A 2-1/2 hour Masterclass on SARS-CoV-2

    Yes it’s very long but worth it. Do check out the 2’13” mark where he shows the video of the electron microscope view of the actual virus.

  179. The Covid virus came from the same people who are NOT investigating where it came from, although such investigation is their official duty. Congress, the intelligence agencies, the FBI, CDC, WHO, etc. Fact is we have had a secret world government for decades. Don’t be distracted by allegations against China. We know from articles in Journal ‘Nature’ gain of function research was going on in Chapel Hill on a bat virus to make it more catchable by humans. That research was moved to Wuhan by Fauci when someone noticed GOF research violates U.S. law. Who turned China into a world power? Not the Chinese but Western financial elites who transferred capital and manufacturing know-how from the West to China. China is only a plantation for the world money power, just like the USA.

    • Thanks: Dumbo
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  180. Alden says:
    @War for Blair Mountain

    Absolutely right about Chinese legal immigration the greatest threat to American Whites. I went to college with some of the young White men who created Silicon Valley. 2 weeks after graduation they were in Mountain View Ca working for NSA directly or NSA contractors.

    20 years later there were a lot of layoffs. When business picked up; the Whites weren’t called back. They were replaced by Chinese. During the administration of the Great White Hope Ronald Reagan. Same thing with Boeing up in Seattle. Massive layoffs and Americans not re hired when Boeing re opened.

  181. @Bardon Kaldian

    There are no laws of history (sorry Hegel, Marx & Spengler) behind them, nor some group of people, nor ETs.

    Georg Wilhelm Friedrich – Hegel – – would smile. I do too, because I kinda agree with what you write.

  182. @Bardon Kaldian

    Covid is a huge joke on all humankind. It has shown that hubris always crumbles, and that big plans of big countries and big corporations and big elites are nothing more than a comical side of a soap opera that is human life.

    When in doubt whether to cry or to laugh – laugh. Wilhelm Raabe, (great) German 19th-century novelist and Arthur Schopenhauer and Goethe reader said that.

    On the other hand, the Swiss did just fine so far. They saved their elderly, let their little ones go into kindergarten and grammar school, kept their businesses afloat (tourism suffered though) offered as many doses of vaccines as people wanted, and kept quite low on the panic side. Result: No excess deaths in 2020. No emergency in hospitals (neither in intensive care nor with regard to ventilator beds. Lockdowns were always mild and are loosened since March through April and now Mai step by step so that the Swiss are approaching almost normal life conditions.
    The mood is good (except in tourism), the economy suffered a hard blow but will recover.

  183. Racist, Sinophobic drool. I’ve seen how things are done in China-the greatest economic, scientific and technological leap in history, and how they are done in the USA, ie infrastructure crumbling, education crumbling, one ‘incident’ every three days in the VAST US bio-warfare establishment, with known fatalities among lab workers, and I know who I trust to keep pathogens safe. Anti-communist, anti-Chinese drivel.

  184. TRM says:
    @Erik Sieven

    Ivermectin works great and it works on the variants as well.
    flccc.net

    HCQ+ treatments also work great.
    flemingmethod.com

    mRNA is NOT a vaccine. It is gene therapy and leaves you 8 times more susceptible to the variants (prelim Israeli study).
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.06.21254882v2

    • Agree: Alfred
    • Troll: utu
  185. @Alden

    US education crap, Chinese education better. Do you worry about Indians or others replacing ‘Americans’ or are you only fixated on the Yellow Peril?

  186. @Chris in Cackalacky

    US GOF experiments never ceased. Somewhere, probably in multiple locations, in the VAST US bio-warfare archipelago, with its scores of overseas labs, many near China and Russia (six in Ukronazistan!)these experiments went on, as did the long search for ethnically specific exterminationist organisms, continuing the work of the apartheid twins, Israel and Afrikaaner South Africa, and THAT is where SARS CoV2 was created. Not a shadow of a doubt.

  187. Dumbo says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    You’re completely wrong on this one.

    It, contrary to all fantasies, strengthened nation-states & boundaries in virtually the whole world. Even within the EU the project of some mega-state is in shambles.

    No it didn’t. It screwed white European people even more, and made it for difficult for them to do some tourist traveling, but it didn’t stop in one jota the influx of Arabs/Negros in Europe, nor that of Mexicans in America.

    complete collapse of all efforts to create some imaginary New World Order.

    Vaccine passports, check, tracking apps, check, cashless society, check, increase of al technologies and changes in social order that NWO-types were talking about for YEARS before the pandemic (only trying to pin it on “global warming” or something else – check. Let’s face it, you’re always defending Jews and other NWO manipulators on this board, you’re an apologist for them.

    showed general confusion & incompetence of so called national elites & traditional national behavior of various people- Italians are chaotic, Japanese are robotic

    More or less. Germans were shown to be pretty incompetent on this one. Asians did best, but perhaps for other reason. Mask usage (although useless) was higher than in Italy than in Germany. Etc. A lot of it was random too, some countries being hit more than others.

    Sorry- no human effort is capable of such an ingenuity

    Obviously it was not created ex-nihilo,

    showed that, ultimately, everyone has lost (the fact that some billionaires made additional billions does not change anything, globally).

    What bullshit. It changed for them. They will make even more money in the future.

    It has shown that hubris always crumbles, and that big plans of big countries and big corporations and big elites are nothing more than a comical side of a soap opera that is human life.

    That won’t stop them for trying and trying, which is really the whole issue. Of course no one can fundamentally change human nature, or even Nature itself. But do you see those powerful people admitting that? What do you think that the history of mankind has been, other than some people thinking that they can change human nature or natural laws, and causing enormous amounts of pain and grief to everybody?

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  188. Anon62 says:
    @annamaria

    Key quote (emphasis added):

    Quote
    “Based on our research, we can say that bats in Georgia are reservoirs of such bacterial and viral pathogens as Bartonella, Coronavirus, Leptospira and Brucella, which are likely to have pandemic potential”, according to Lela Urushadze. She explains: “In total we have captured 450 bats using nets and hand nets from eight different roosts. The experimental materials were collected twice in 2012 and 2014. They were transported in a field laboratory or BSL 3 Laboratory for further processing and research for presence of the above mentioned pathogens”.

    According to the study, three samples tested positive for beta coronaviruses and were closely related to the MERS-beta coronavirus isolated in an infected patient in Saudi Arabia who died, as well as to MERS coronaviruses in camels in Saudi Arabia and Dubai.

    The Georgian coronaviruses were similar to beta coronaviruses discovered in bats in Spain, Italy, Bulgaria and to the pandemic SARS coronavirus with lethal outcome in Amsterdam, China, Florida and Colorado. The Lugar Center scientists also discovered SARS-like coronaviruses similar to those in bats in China and Thailand.

    In her dissertation Lela Urishadze thanks the Pentagon Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) “for the material assistance”. Lela Urushadze is a member of the DTRA-supported organisation – BOHRN (Bat One Health research Network) which studies viruses in bats.

    \$6.5 million US military program on bats and coronaviruses

    In 2017 the US Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) itself launched a \$6.5 million project on bats and coronaviruses in Western Asia with the Lugar Center being the local laboratory for this genetic research. The duration of the program is 5 years and has been implemented by the non-profit US organisation Eco Health Alliance.

    /Quote

    Source URL:
    http://dilyana.bg/project-g-2101-pentagon-biolab-discovered-mers-and-sars-like-coronaviruses-in-bats/

    The Georgia reference is to the Western Asia state which hosts the Lugar Center, a Pentagon sponsored bio-research facility which has been reported to have experienced a number of fatal laboratory escapes.

    The Eco Health Alliance is an entity spnsored in whole or in part by Dr. Fauci. See the following:

    Quote

    Why it matters: Questions remain about the origins of the coronavirus and the so-called “lab leak hypothesis” — the theory that the virus resulted from experiments in the Wuhan lab that accidentally spilled over, which the head of the World Health Organization has said should be investigated further.

    Context: China’s Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), located just miles from the market where the first COVID-19 outbreak was detected, previously received funding from Fauci’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases via the nonprofit EcoHealth Alliance.

    /Quote

    Source URL:
    https://www.axios.com/fauci-rand-paul-wuhan-lab-coronavirus-eff1bb08-f6c7-4d63-b170-c49e87c2e3dd.html

  189. @The Real World

    Trump started the mask mandate, Biden ended it. He’s already miles better.

    • Replies: @The Real World
  190. Ron Unz says:
    @Triteleia Laxa

    You refer to “the vaccine”. This confuses me as there are already many vaccines. They come from many different countries and have tens of thousands working on them in some way.

    For you to be right, all governments would have to be in on it. So would scientists including random university professors, again in many countries.

    I find this extremely improbable. Why don’t you?

    I don’t want to help divert this thread into debating vaccine-nonsense, but your point seems a very powerful and obvious one.

    The Anti-Vaxxers seem to believe that there’s a worldwide conspiracy involving China, America, Russia, Israel, Iran, and just about every other major nation, with the leaders and vaccine scientists of all those countries secretly working together to poison and kill their own populations.

    I think the only way that would make sense is if that English guy is correct and the entire world is secretly under the control of alien Reptilians…

  191. Agent76 says:

    This is where this Plandemic originated and why the numbers are fake and a lie!

    Nov 4, 2019 Event 201 Pandemic Exercise: Segment 4, Communications Discussion and Epilogue Video

    Event 201 is a pandemic tabletop exercise hosted by The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. The exercise illustrated the pandemic preparedness efforts needed to diminish the large-scale economic and societal consequences of a severe pandemic.

    http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/media

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  192. @Alden

    It’s the destruction of centuries of Native White Engineering Experience-know how-including future Native White Engineering talent that will never be developed….this is what you call WHITE GENOCIDE.

    The reason why White Americans are not allowed to publicly state the very obvious that Chinese LEGAL IMMIGRANTS brought the corona virus into America is because the Chinese in America feel they have a Divine Right to vote Native Born White Americans into a White Racial Minority within the borders of America…..

  193. @That Would Be Telling

    Your viewpoint is also extremely parochial, as if the rest of the world and its research on COVID-19 doesn’t exist…

    Actually, I quoted an expert Jon Rappoport and added it to this discussion to let everyone know this could be a huge psyop EXACTLY like the CO2 warming myth. In both cases, the bogeyman is invisible, and thus is said to do things that you can not observe, and thus, must take their word for it. You should be automatically suspicious of the MSM, Fauci, Gates, the corrupt politicians, and especially how hard they are pumping the need for the vaccine – which magnets stick to.

    see MAGNETGATE: MAGNETS STICKING TO VACCINATION SPOT

    There is no reason at all to believe anything TPTB say, they are proven liars, and the classic example is 9-11-2001 and the claim that Muslims did it, when it was a controlled demolition of WTC 1,2, and 7 and thus no Muslims could have done it. If they lie about 911, and they lied about Global Warming, what makes you want to believe them about Covid? Likewise, since it is obvious the elite have an agenda, which probably includes our death, I do not think you should believe any part of the narrative, including that Covid is a real thing.

    MagnetGate: Magnets Stick To Covid Vaccine Injection Site FULL 2021 DOCUMENTARY #MagnetChallenge

    https://ugetube.com/watch/magnetgate-magnets-stick-to-c0vid-vaccine-injection-site-full-2021-documentary_tYQbUB2P2fakdei.html/list/kfhyqypnclnh2un

    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  194. @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Why do US racists always seem to enact systemic oppression that leads to US Asians receiving superior outcomes over even those racists?

  195. @Agent76

    The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security has been holding these exercises since 2001 a bit before 9/11, so this amounts to a claim they also has a “Plandemic” for a smallpox attack afterwords. Ditto 2005. And another before the 2019 exercise on something else. This is something responsible low time preference people and peoples do.

    After SARS in 2002 and MERS in 2012 which due to it having an camel reservoir is still with us, predicting sooner or later we’d be dealing with another coronavirus is easy to the point of trivial, even if as I believe this was from a Wuhan lab accident with a gain of function experiment.

    It also should not have escaped your notice pandemics are a historical phenomena, even if you don’t know about the presumed flu epidemics in Babylon in 1,200 B.C. and North Greece and Rome in 412 B.C. We’re also starting to wonder if some of these we’ve blamed on the flu were actually from coronaviruses, there are now four of them endemic in humans causing around 15% of the cases of “the common cold.”

    • Troll: Mulga Mumblebrain
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  196. @That Would Be Telling

    Covid-19 is still a disease of the Elderly (95% are over age 60 globally; the majority of victims are over age 80). The same age difference is also noted for sequelae. Actually childhood diseases cause as bad or worse sequelae in the young and healthy population. Additionally any modicum of treatment (as for Kawasaki’s Syndrome: aspirin for clotting and pain, immunoglobulins, non-specific for viruses, and particularly glucocorticoids to reduce overactivation of the immune system, which probably is more detrimental than the virus itself), correction of nutrient deficiencies (common in the elderly), and a host of drugs, such as ivermectin, fluvoxamine, etc which in combination may have contributed to the MUCH lower Covid-19 death rates in non-Western countries. When I ask people who have anecdotal stories about long haulers what preventative medications they were on, what combinations, they invariably say oxygen or other treatments once hospitalized; so basically NOTHING. Their choice? Or the authorities’?
    The ‘experts’ now claim an infection fatality rate of 0.2%, far down from NYC’s with its ventilator fiasco in the Spring. The Covid-19 vaccines given to 100 million Americans will be about 90% effective in preventing Covid-19 deaths, a godsend for the Elderly and those with serious comorbidities (cancer, kidney failure, organ transplants). Age of course is the biggest co-morbidity by far; the WSJ noted a 19% increase in risk with diabetes, would guess obesity is similar. Of course the 10 million Americans or so vaccinated who get Covid-19 ‘breakthrough’ will have varying responses. A good idea unless directed otherwise by physicians is to get nutrients (such as vitamin D3) normalized, and take a baby aspirin a day to minimize clotting.
    Curiously there have been short-term increases in Covid-19 cases where widespread vaccinations have taken place (coincidence? Many people exposed in clinics and hospitals?) While the media has focused on Israel, which despite a massive vaccination campaign was slow to match the fall in new cases across much of the globe starting in mid January, although they seem fine now. The Seychelles has the highest vaccination rate in the world and is in the middle of their first wave of Covid-19. Singapore also seems to have a serious outbreak of new cases during their vaccination campaign.
    While there is still a lot that can go wrong (antibody enhancement of new variants is worst case), hopefully Covid-19 will soon be just a bad memory.

  197. @Supply and Demand

    I don’t give a flip about Trump. He “started” no mask mandate so, you have no idea what you’re talking about. It was dimwit Governors and there were no laws requiring it so, too bad you got so easily sucked-in to believing they owned you.

    Masks are a provable joke anyhow; they do not stop transmission of microscopic particles. They are simply population obedience training. I have to admit it was useful to see who chugged that fake kool-aide. Perhaps you should continue to stay diapered…..to be “safe”.

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
  198. @obwandiyag

    . . . it is both a biowarfare attack and a lame clumsy fuck-up.

    with you holding down the latter role until someone less qualified can be found
    J’accuse un autre conspirateur !

  199. @Yukon Jack

    I labeled you a Troll because your reply was entirely non-responsive except for a further appeal to authority. And then you bring up the magnets!! I have to wonder if there are paid mimetic warriors out there coming up with more and more hair brained memes to demonstrate how genuinely dumb so much of the Right is and to distract them, or if there are some people just doing it for the lulz.

    BUT!!! I am a scientist at heart and empiricism rules, got two Pfizer/BioNTech shots in the same arm unlike I’m sure anyone you know, and just happened to walk past my fridge just now. Which has a couple of powerful magnets on it, and I can confirm as anyone with a bit of physical intuition would know that they have absolutely no attraction to where I was twice vaccinated. There’s just too little material in 1-2 0.3 or 0.5 mL injections to accomplish what’s being claimed.

    • Thanks: MEH 0910
    • Troll: Mulga Mumblebrain
  200. hotrod31 says:

    Whether the ‘virus’ came from China, or originated in a lab at Fort Detrick in the USA, is of secondary relevance at this stage. Of critical importance is formulating or utilising a relatively safe medical solution to alleviate the ailment at this stage. Primary focus on a vaccine does not quite accord with centuries old medical practices. Focus on a vaccine from DAY 1 of an alleged pandemic flies in the face of convention. Also, one needs to be circumspect of the WHO’s insistence on the alteration of the previous definition of the word PANDEMIC. Why was the previous definition of an old word altered? Cui bono?

    Moreover, what is also important is … does this so called virus actually exist and is it as hypothetically lethal as the WHO claims it is?. If it does exist, why has the medical fraternity not been encouraged and supported with their endeavour to find a cure, rather than have a vaccine as the primary focus from DAY 1? If the ‘virus’ is as ‘deadly’ as it is alleged to be, why is the death-rate on a par with that of influenza?

    Unless the two questions have legitimately verifiable answers … one would therefore be led to the conclusion that the 24/7 media blitz with reference to the origins debacle is deliberately intended to serve as a conscious distractor or smoke-screen, engineered to distract from the essence of the facts, i.e. create an either/or scenario to deliberately distract and/or control the pre-determined response/s. This strategy has been used by national security apparatus before and I suspect – will be used again to secure pre-determined outcomes.

  201. @The Real World

    I’m in China, Real World.

    Our mask mandates ended last August.

  202. @Ron Unz

    No, it’s the rulers and the little people. The little people count for nothing.

    Still, I’m skeptical about blaming the Russians and the Iranians. Ever been done before?

  203. @hotrod31

    The farting about with declaring a pandemic was because of the ‘pandemic bonds’ and the fact that certain elite bloodsuckers stood to lose money if a pandemic was declared. Naturally the Western fakestream media vermin do not even mention their existence. The vaccine push is designed to drive the virus to new ‘variants’ that will be seeded from the US bio-warfare establishment if they don’t arise ‘naturally’ through ‘vaccine leakage’. As for mRNA ‘vaccines’-they are longer-term killers I would say, or perhaps sterilising agents to ‘humanely’ reduce the population. We’ll soon see.

  204. @That Would Be Telling

    If you are a BigPharma troll, you may not have had the experimental mRNA ‘vaccines’. Better to wait until the human lab rat trials end, don’t you agree. If, instead, you are just so brainwashed that you trust BigPharma, the medical-industrial complex Mafias and the global overlords, then I do sympathise.

  205. The west blames Chinese bats turds

    The East blames western Jabberwokees

    I blame the drivel woking for MSM big pharme

  206. @That Would Be Telling

    So, what of the VAST US archipelago of bio-warfare labs, scattered around the world? What of US experiments on Gain of Function including on coronaviruses, ‘ceased’ in 2014, but recommenced in 2017? What of the numerous incidents of leakage from US bio-labs, including those that caused deaths of researchers? What of Fort Detrick being shut down in July 2019 because of leams of contaminants from its new ‘sterilisation’ process? What of the other biological attacks on China in recent years, including African Swine Fever (deliberately introduced to Cuba by the USA in the 70s, as was dengue, causing deaths of children)and three variants of bird ‘Flus? Or, as a Sinophobe racist, are you pretending that the USA’s bio-warfare activities do not exist?

  207. @Dieter Kief

    How did they manage this if I may ask? This shows that they performed about average for Europeans (per capita deaths between Sweden and Kosovo, and higher than Germany)

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

    I also read something about the German speaking region performing better than French-, Italian- regions

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  208. @Erik Sieven

    the question is: why are those “gain of function” studies done anyway? Obviously they come with a certain risk. The only good reason to do it is so develop better answers to such viruses, such as new vaccines or new drugs.

    Sure. but they’re typically working with pathogens recovered from wild animals, rather than ones that cause known human diseases. The stated reason for this type of study is typically something like “We’re not sure if this virus that we found in some bat [or whatever] has much potential to make the jump to humans and cause a pandemic, so let’s tweak it a little [or a lot] to see if we can make it more infectious/ more deadly to humans.”

    No, I’m not kidding. Take this 2015 Baric/ Shi paper [i.e. 1 year after the Obama ban on gain of function research], that was funded in part by by NIH, USAID, and DOD money funneled through Daszak’s “EcoHealth Alliance” front company:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20191224151326/https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985

    The question they appeared to be asking in this study was “So if we take the backbone from the SARS virus, and graft on a spike protein from a recently-discovered bat coronavirus, can we get the resulting chimeric virus to infect human respiratory epithelial cells and mice?”

    The answer was “yes,” btw. I don’t know about you, but I feel a whole lot better for knowing that…

    A somewhat related point: the main difference between “bioweapons research” and “bioweapons defense research” is the stated goal of that research. I mean, if you want to defend against weaponized anthrax, what’s one of the first things you have to do? Culture up some anthrax.

    But this whole “China bad!” vs. “ZOG bad!” dialectic seems like BS. I mean, [Chinese] Shi trained with [American] Baric at UNC, they were coauthors on that 2015 paper (and others), they both got Pentagon/ NIH/ USAID money funneled through [British, but US-funded] Daszak’s company [which has a former Fort Detrick head as a “technical adviser”, btw]. And this was an interesting line from that 2015 Baric/ Shi paper:

    “chimeric SARS-like CoVs were cultured on Vero E6 cells (obtained from United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases [i.e. Fort Detrick])

    It doesn’t really seem as if “China? Or America?” is a particularly productive question, given the level of involvement by both; especially when compared to something like “Why are we appointing people who are heavily invested in coronavirus ‘gain of function’ research — like Daszak — to head teams that are supposed to be ‘investigating’ the origins of the virus?”

    Have these people ever heard of the concept of “conflict of interest?” Or even “fox guarding the chicken coop?”

  209. @hotrod31

    Moreover, what is also important is … does this so called virus actually exist and is it as hypothetically lethal as the WHO claims it is?. If it does exist, why has the medical fraternity not been encouraged and supported with their endeavour to find a cure, rather than have a vaccine as the primary focus from DAY 1? If the ‘virus’ is as ‘deadly’ as it is alleged to be, why is the death-rate on a par with that of influenza?

    Given that you first doubt that SARS-CoV-2 exists, then deny it’s as deadly as it’s proven to be, not to mention causing a lot more morbidity than the flu, it’s not surprising you haven’t thought hard about your desire for a cure.

    Tell us about any existing “cures,” any treatments that are really good at mitigating acute virus infections. I know of none, and this is why people like Derek “Things I Won’t Work With” Lowe were extremely skeptical about our being able to find a small molecule drug that would be effective (as a synthetic chemist that’s his personal specialty). We’ve got stuff that may take a bit of an edge off the flu, or shingles, we’ve got stuff for chronic herpes viruses and HIV infections, but nothing that fits the bill besides of course artificial antibodies, which along with convalescent plasma as far as I know haven’t turned out to be really very effective solutions for enough patients.

    As we have since Jenner and the smallpox virus, vaccines are where we’re getting real relief. Locally, I can attest we now have relatively very few cases, very few hospitalized, and deaths are now very infrequent. At the national level, the CDC’s tally of excess “all cause” mortality finally dropped to nothing as of the week ending in March 20th (takes eight+ weeks for death certificates to trickle in from localities and then the states), a year and four weeks after it started rising about 100% compared to recent years.

    • Thanks: MEH 0910
    • Troll: michael888
  210. HEP ME! HEP ME!

    Covid’s gonna kiiiiill me now!!!

  211. Skeptikal says:
    @CelestiaQuesta

    “I can only imagine what comes next after this plandemic went better than planned. ”

    Bear in mind that we don’t know what “act” are in of the first plandemic.
    Act III (“Vaccination” aka Jabbing), scene ii (rollout) is still playing out. We await the potentially exciting events of scene iii (short-, medium- and long-term effects of jabs).

  212. @Wizard of Oz

    Original 3 with Covid 19 had NOITHING to do with the wet market, They caught it closer to the Games but at a place where fur is processed –perhaps Danish Mink —yingle yangle.,….

  213. It’s coming up to fifty years ago since Lin Biao

    The narrative these days in Sinosphere on Lin is that he’s certainly brilliant as a general. Not only in the Civil War ’45-’49, but in vastly outnumbered situations during the Encirclement Campaigns where Chiang hired the best advisors

    Chiang also adopted the strategy given to him by his German advisers’ (Hans von Seeckt and Alexander von Falkenhausen), which involved the systematic encirclement of the Jiangxi Soviet region with fortified blockhouses.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_encirclement_campaign_against_the_Jiangxi_Soviet

    (reminiscent of Walther Model’s defensive strategy in Eastern Front)

    I’ve commented before on Cultural Revolution—

    The main consensus on文革 is 十年浩劫 „Ten Year Great Calamity“
    In light what’s happening currently in the West, there are some more nuanced takes:
    – As vaccination that prevents future radical Left chimpouts. Settled bad blood between social classes still leftover after Chinese Civil War. Henceforth China for a long time will not have to deal with the type of divisions as India. Setting the stage for economic takeoff that inevitable drove huge wealth gaps.
    – It prevented a post-Mao swing the other way—too far pro-West/Liberal. I think you guys here would agree that it would not have been wise for China to follow Gorbachev
    – Also prevents future cults of personality
    A lot though is still in unopened archives and remains a mystery. Such as what happened with Lin Biao 林彪, who was PLA’s most accomplished general and Mao’s biggest supporter during 文革. But supposedly died on a plane crash on way to USSR.
    高华 Gao Hua is the authority if you can look him up. (No English translations though)

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/say-his-name-ahmad-al-alawi-alissa/#comment-4582813

    Gao Hua’s take on Lin Biao is in general sympathetic—

    – He was not completely obsequious to Mao and was pressured into many situations
    – He may have went along on purges on other CCP elders but did not goad on in addition
    – Above all, he was in pretty poor health and would not have been in position to organized some coup https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_Biao#Illness, his son Lin Liguo was more of a renegade
    – Very unlikely that he was defecting to USSR

    In summary, everything goes back to Mao, who got into wars with both US and USSR, purged Deng three times and somehow let him bounce back, met with Nixon and Kissinger. The truth is buried somewhere in still-sealed Chinese and maybe Russian archives.

  214. Skeptikal says:
    @Ron Unz

    “The Anti-Vaxxers seem to believe that there’s a worldwide conspiracy involving China, America, Russia, Israel, Iran, and just about every other major nation, with the leaders and vaccine scientists of all those countries secretly working together to poison and kill their own populations.”

    1. The current lot of shots are not “vaccines.”
    2. Many of those—perhaps half— of those who question the safety and other aspects of the very-ramped-up propaganda campaign to push these jabs into every arm are not “anti-vaxxers” but “anti-untested-mRNA-jabbers.”
    3. A review of the suppression of info about effective early treatments for covid-19 in favor of an early official position whereby the only “way out” of the putative pandemic was via vaccinations certainly invites speculation in the part of inquiring minds as to the long-term program. As Dr. Peter McCullough has said a few times in connection with the suppression of information about and even criminalization of early medical treatment for covid-19: “Something is going on here.”

    Labeling Dr. McCullough as an anti-vaxxer or conspiracy theorist would be to make oneself a laughingstock. It shameful that scientists as eminent in their field as s Dr. McCullough in his have indeed been labeled conspiracy theorists, cranks, or even in need of psychiatric assistance (Dr. Michael Yeadon) and have been effectively canceled.

    Back to the Soviet Psychiatric Gulag Future?

    • Thanks: InnerCynic
  215. TKK says:
    @Curmudgeon

    The Covid vaccine is free at Wal Mart.

    Free!

    No questions asked. No insurance papers needed. Go to the pharmacist and you will get it.

    If we wrote this as a script, no one would buy it.

  216. @Harold Smith

    And then there were those stories in August 2019 of a previously unknown lung infection among people who vape.

  217. Trevor says:

    Wade compares the two common theories: (a) the “wet market” theory, that the virus jumped from bats, or from bats via some intermediate host, to humans at a live-animal market in Wuhan, China, and (b) the “lab escape” theory, that the virus originated in a lab, also in Wuhan, doing research into viruses.

    It may have been sort of both.

    Lab workers sell surplus or stolen aninals into the wet market.

  218. Rahan says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Ophiocordyceps unilateralis is so last century, babe.
    We’re in the Sacculina carcini era.

    The female larva is the first to colonize its crustacean host — she attaches herself to the underside of a crab, forming a bulge in its shell. She then spreads root-like tendrils throughout her host, which she uses to draw nutrients.

    As she grows, the bulge in the crab’s shell turns into a knot. A male Sacculina then comes along and implants himself inside of his mate, where he produces sperm. The pair then continuously reproduces. At this time, the helpless, now-castrated crab essentially becomes the barnacle’s servant. It stops molting and growing, and actually begins to take care of the barnacle’s eggs as if it were its own.

    When the barnacle infects a male crab, it sterilizes the crustacean and alters its body to resemble that of a female crab by widening and flattening the abdomen. It then forces the crab’s body to release certain hormones — the male crab begins to act like a female crab, even to the point of performing female mating dances. It also takes care of the barnacle’s eggs.

    https://io9.gizmodo.com/12-real-parasites-that-control-the-lives-of-their-hosts-461313366

  219. Now that Trump is gone and Jews want to reopen the economy, the Jewish-run medical institutions and media are changing their tune.

    After WMD, Russia Hoax, and other BS, how could so many people fall for the Covid nonsense? Dummies fell for it, but smarties knowingly played along just to get rid of Trump. What a dirtbag country the US has become.

  220. I don’t know who Derbyshire works for, but, I suspect it’s not for the Truth. His non-article is parroting current theories without offering a patina of proof one way or the other. All we know is that he has a bromance with Wade and they’re both English immigrants to the Evil Empire.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  221. RestiveUs says:
    @The Real World

    Hmmm…I wonder if a fob scanner would pick up anything. It would be nice to know what your number is!

  222. Rahan says:
    @The Soft Parade

    *Until you admit that we’ve crossed the point of no return your excellent mind will remain useless for purposes of things here and now. Specifically, in the permanent absence of truth–for which all those masks are signs of its renouncement–what do you hope to reclaim, and how will you do it?*

    Welp, when the USSR was finished, in hindsight this did not mean that all of Russia was finished. Half of it survived, although it was touch and go for over a decade.
    So maybe in this case too, while the current Union is finished (applicable to the US, Canada, and UK in their form today), maybe the core nation can also make its own smaller country, erect defences, and bounce back.

    But as you mentioned truth–yes, when the likes of Aristotle and Plato throw their energy into connecting “virtue” to “truth” with one being the other and vise verca, and into defining stable categories anchored to specific phenomena through specific definitions–they did not, in hindsight, do this simply for “academic points” or to create a legacy of their genius.

    It was a public service. The moment you allow sophists to dismantle categories and definitions, and to start making them up on the spot to suit their short-term power needs, and the moment you allow them to impose a narrative in which “virtue” and “fact” are drifting apart, and “virtue” is now defined by internal social pressure within an increasingly solipsistic bubble–your civilization has about two generations left to exist.

    Sophists are not harmless, and the Aristotels and the Platos are not in it for the ego. The former are instruments of the entropy monster and if left unchecked they destroy a civilization super fast. The latter construct fundaments on which a civilization may exist for millennia. But categories need to be strictly defined, the meanings of words need to be strictly defined, and virtue must be anchored to truth and truth must be anchored to fact.

    Today’s sophist members of the globohomo movement have undone all this. When your civilization loses say 20% contact with the world of facts and truth, innovation stops. When it retreats another 20% into solipsism, maintaining what it has inherited becomes almost impossible. And so on. And globohomo is indeed busy cutting, cutting, cutting every possible connection between society and facts, encapsulating it more and more into a solipsistic bubble, which globohomo hopes to control completely.

    Once you’ve trapped someone into a solipsistic bubble, and you control this bubble–you control their perceptions, their emotions, their actions, their thoughts, their dreams, their biochemistry, their reproduction, their food intake, the limits of their imagination, their internal dialogues and narratives, their very personality structure.

    You have become their universe. You have become Descartes’s demon.

    • Replies: @PetrOldSack
  223. @That Would Be Telling

    I am not a troll, I am only bringing to the table that the Covid narrative is not supported by evidence, that during the last 12 months the MSM lied their asses off about the severity of the virus, pumped the fear, put quacks like Fauci on the television, shut the economy down, mask mandates (when masks don’t stop viruses), labeling any death as a COVID-19 death fraudulently to collect government funds,social distancing when no study has shown any transmission out doors. The whole thing stinks to high heaven and should be put in the box labeled “severe cultural delusions”.

    The entire Covid fiasco reeks of fakery, fraud, lies, threats, state manipulation, etc. Thus there is no reason to believe any part of the narrative, including the part about Covid being a real thing. You may think that is radical or parochial, but you are wrong, it is logical and based on preceding precedent with the carbon driven climate hoax which made green energy con man Elon Musk wealthy. Global Warming is now a proven hoax, thus you should assume that Covid is also, because it is being pumped by the exact same group of criminals.

    I would like to point out that scientific consensus in the age of government funded science has a terrible track record like with the previous hoax, Global Warming, that when busted they changed the label to Climate Change. They no longer can try to stampede us into submission with run away warming because the science of carbon dioxide being the driver of temperature is wrong, in fact many scientists are now saying CO2 has no to little to no effect.

    Now that is exactly like the current hoax, where an invisible thing, a Covid “molecule”, which is a ball of RNA, is public enemy number one and the only way we can survive is if we allow the state to take all of our rights away. You ought to now that Covid-19 ball thing was created long before they staged this plandemic, and thus you ought to assume that the whole thing is a big giant stinking statist lie of madmen trying to move the world into a totalitarian state.

    • Agree: theMann
  224. Wade says:
    @UNIT472

    Try to bear in mind that Tom Cotton and Steve Bannon are both untrustworthy Neocons. Bannon also created a limited hangout around the Wuhan Lab-leak hypotheses very early on in the pandemic.

    Whatever the truth of the matter this theory has been a tightly controlled narrative from the usual suspects from the start. If it might have been a lab-leak, it might also have been on purpose but that discussion is not allowed.

    Pretty much the only unlimited hangout has been Ron Unz’s essays and his lengthy responses in the comment sections to his essays. Let’s see Tom Cotton, Fox News, or Steve Bannon in a true open forum on this topic. Not gonna happen. These sources only allow a tightly controlled narrative and are notorious for half-truths and dishonesty.

  225. @The Real World

    Hello at The Real World,

    People should not get all overworked on these many recorded instances of magnets sticking to arms where the Frankenshots were delivered, as there is a very simple reason that it occurs…

    Chill the f**k out, people.. It simply means the Frankenshots are “working”, dude!

    Hahahaha – NOT.

    Heaven help us all…….

    • Replies: @The Real World
  226. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    I also read something about the German speaking region performing better than French-, Italian- regions

    Yeah, all true. Switzerland did quite well in this crisis, that’s true too.

    Not much use of masks required. No use of masks outside at all. In Kindergarten and grammersschool no masks.
    Social distancing worked better in the German-speaking part of the country than elsewhere because these people are more used to it (a bit less hugging and kissing too) and because they have a higher margin of people willing to follow the common rules – it’s a mentality thing.
    The Swiss had understood early on, that it is very useful to protect the vulnerable – and they did: In the care homes for the elderly they made testing a must very early on – for visitors and for the staff too – this took about half a year (if not more) longer being realized and done in neighboring (!) Southern Germany.
    One man – retired virologist Beda M. Stadler***** from Berne hospital – did a lot to calm down the panic and made understood that yes: Action is needed, but that there is no big risk (if a risk at all) for those without severe illnesses esp. in the respiratory tract below 70.
    When in other parts of Europe a considerable number of people were killed by too early intubation, the Swiss were very careful in that regard and – as a matter of fact intubated even fewer people than in the year before and put all in all fewer people than in 2019 in a ventilator bed****. Quite a few of the dead in the rest of Europe were elderly especially on ventilators (German doctor Gunter Frank. who wrote a lot about Co-19, thinks, that this was a tragedy (if not a scandal) of its own right.
    Panic voices had a hard time getting through on many occasions because the Swiss public sphere is so divided up due to the political system – and also due to direct democracy especially. This means, that decisions are more grounded in real experiences – in reality, and that includes the social reality of the public sphere. Therefore the Swiss mentality is less prone, to fall for unreasonable decisions.

    One major example where this – disposition worked was when the staff in intensive care got scared and developed the tendency to stay out of work on the basis of symptomless testing. This idea brought lots of german intensive care units on the bring of dysfunctionality – whereas in Switzerland it was soo consensus to halt this practice and to even remember the staff in clear words, that – not least in a crisis, the ar obliged to go to work if they have no symptoms.

    Ironically, there are quite a few nurses and medical doctors in Swiss intensive care and they imported the German panic into Switzerland. Here I’d say, one journalist, made a big difference, who understood this dynamic at once and – wrote and spoke out agoínst it quite decisively.

    *** This is the single most astonishing difference the Swiss managed to make in this crisis, I’d hold.

    ***** Ivor Cummins once called Prof. Beda M. Stadler from Berne the CO-19 pope of central Europe – that gives you an idea. Beda M. Stadler is also a very nice and self-reflective, mildly ironic and – communicative person. That did wonders in crashing the public tendency to panic – which was in the air because the extremely panic-stricken northern Italy was right around the bend from Switzerland. – Just a hundred or so miles away.

    (If you read The Sane Society by Erich Fromm and look at Switzerland, you understand what he is after in the book – and why he chose to live there in his late Seventies).

    Switzerland (and Sweden) are interesting examples in this CO-19 crisis and well worth being reflected upon.

  227. @Achmed E. Newman

    Can you quote, directly with link, something I’ve said about Mao that is false or misleading, or are you just trolling?

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  228. @Wizard of Oz

    How does my death doubling chart compare with officially reported figures? What explains differences?

    Iris answered that question better than I can:

    The argument that Covid-19, if already spreading in the US, even in 2019, would have been mandatorily detected in real-time just because of an alarming quantitative increase in the death rate is obviously wrong.

    If that were the case, the Italian and Spanish Health services who struggled for four months with high concentrations of elderly Covid-19 patients would have seen such an “excess mortality” red flag, but they never did, until the Chinese made a decisive qualitative step forward and identified a novel virus.

    Covid has a low death rate, and as such could not have been identified just by an alarmingly-increased excess death rate, especially in the early months of the pandemic when the number of cases were low. It is the qualitative factors, clinical symptoms, scans, serology, and the like that should have raised the red flag, but instead the CDC chose to bury them under the now-discredited “EVALI” convenience tag.

    The Chinese identified SARS-CoV2 led by qualitative drives, not because they had too many deaths, but because they reacted as perfectionist professionals when faced with symptoms they could not attribute to any previously-known respiratory syndrome.

    It would have been extremely easy to hide the statistical effect of 6 – 7 months of running Covid19 infection in the USA, especially at the inception stage of the epidemic. Laymen may object that, if 100,000 died, someone would have noticed. No.

    Maybe somebody would have “noticed” an extra 100,000 deaths, but not until they had accumulated and been totalised alongside the excess death or negative death rates from all other factors. For instance, the uncertainty on the death toll for ‘flu during only the 6-months winter season is as high as 38,000 deaths–so it would have taken a long time for an extra 100,000 deaths to raise a red flag as a confirmed anomaly.

    In other words, considering its comparatively small order of magnitude, the 2019 Covid death rate would have been easily missed amongst other uncertainty factors such as ‘flu death rate and falling life expectancy.

    • Agree: Vidi
  229. @That Would Be Telling

    The 4-6 million arithmetic is here:

    What demographic correction would you apply to the donor sample, given that the donations are voluntary and unpaid?

  230. @Alternate History

    Is it really a “patina” of proof you are asking for? I have known John Derbyshire for 20 years and I can say confidently that you are barking up the wrong tree if you think he is working for anyone when he writes such an article. Also you malign him when you accuse him of not offering proof. After all he was pointing out that even the positions taken by Wade and Unz weren’t proven.

  231. @Trevor

    Cobblers! Did you make that up yourself, or read it in the Epoch Times?

    • Replies: @Trevor
  232. remo says:

    Next time you pass the fridge.

    ‘Magnetofection’ delivers DNA in experimental malaria vaccine. https://www.fiercepharma.com/drug-delivery/magnetofection-delivers-dna-experimental-malaria-vaccine

    Magnetically enhanced nucleic acid delivery. Ten years of magnetofection—Progress and prospects☆ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7103316/

    sourced: https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/relentless-israeli-gov-war-crimes-children-get-covid-jab-no-parental-consent-bidens-cyber-eo/

  233. @That Would Be Telling

    You cannot change the fact that the case mortality rate is c.o.2%, like a really bad influenza. And those numbers could be crushed with Vitamin D and zinc supplementation, Betadine nasal swabbing and gargling and the use of medicines like HCQ and azithromycin, or ivermectin plus doxycycline. But we MUST take the experimental mRNA injections, despite the lack of full safety testing. Why is that, I wonder?

  234. Coemgen says:

    Is it me or is there an effort to pettifog about the origins of COVID-19 instead of noting how fortuitous the virus has been for the Democrat Party? It seems to have become pandemic just about the same time the impeachment started to unravel – an October 2019 “surprise” perhaps.

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jane-fonda-covid-gods-gift/

  235. @MGB

    Some of the HIV therapeutics pushed by Doctor Mengele Fauci proved to be deadly in and of themselves.

  236. @Godfree Roberts

    It’s your whole on-line existence. All your writing about Chinese history is one big lie – HERE

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  237. @Dumbo

    Vaccine passports, check, tracking apps, check, cashless society, check, increase of al technologies and changes in social order that NWO-types were talking about for YEARS before the pandemic (only trying to pin it on “global warming” or something else – check.

    This is the only part worth commenting (the rest is nonsense). All those measures are in function of strengthening nation-states and their societies, not some global-supranational “world government”.

    So, NWO fantasists are completely wrong. They simply don’t understand that advancement of technology necessarily increases vulnerability of populations – along with immensely better & more fulfilled human life, at least for those cognitively capable – with changes in ecology & norms of human behavior, as well as average human expectations from life. This vulnerability & complexity demand unprecedented measures in ever advancing human societies, especially in planning, control & functionality.

    Otherwise, demographics would collapse & people would just, eventually, die off.

    • Replies: @Dumbo
  238. @tmp

    For the 4-6 million arithmetic, see my response, #231, below.

    The antibody levels referenced in the CDC paper are sufficient to qualify for an EU ‘Green’ visa. That’s pretty minimal.

    As to “Further studies involving retrospective analyses of human specimens with molecular or serologic methods are necessary to further corroborate the present findings, which suggest the presence of specific antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 in the United States as early as mid-December 2019″?

    The authors are covering their asses. Who can blame them?

  239. @El Dato

    That logarithmic graph is extremly misleading. It should really stop below January 2019 and not pretend that what is essentially pure noise perfectly fits a mathematical exponential.

    . Nonsense. From the starting point of maximum monthly deaths and knowing the death doubling time we can calculate an approximate date for the first death.

    We don’t even know the COVID-19 deaths NOW, ffs.

    We do if we are consistent and use the same authority as we did for our regression: the CDC.

    The assumption that such a thing could happen burn unobserved in Glorious USA over several flu seasons while China records a suspicious spike of flu-like illnesses just around the end of 2019 exactly where it should be before the virus goes the party sounds a bit like .. retconning.

    Not at all. As Iris observed elsewhere in these pages:

    [MORE]

    The argument that Covid-19, if already spreading in the US, even in 2019, would have been mandatorily detected in real-time just because of an alarming quantitative increase in the death rate is obviously wrong. If that were the case, the Italian and Spanish Health services who struggled for four months with high concentrations of elderly Covid-19 patients would have seen such an “excess mortality” red flag, but they never did, until the Chinese made a decisive qualitative step forward and identified a novel virus.

    Covid has a low death rate, and as such could not have been identified just by an alarmingly-increased excess death rate, especially in the early months of the pandemic when the number of cases were low. It is the qualitative factors, clinical symptoms, scans, serology, and the like that should have raised the red flag, but instead the CDC chose to bury them under the now-discredited “EVALI” convenience tag.

    The Chinese identified SARS-CoV2 led by qualitative drives, not because they had too many deaths, but because they reacted as perfectionist professionals when faced with symptoms they could not attribute to any previously-known respiratory syndrome.

    It would have been extremely easy to hide the statistical effect of 6 – 7 months of running Covid19 infection in the USA, especially at the inception stage of the epidemic. Laymen may object that, if 100,000 died, someone would have noticed. No.

    Maybe somebody would have “noticed” an extra 100,000 deaths, but not until they had accumulated and been totalised alongside the excess death or negative death rates from all other factors. For instance, the uncertainty on the death toll for ‘flu during only the 6-months winter season is as high as 38,000 deaths–so it would have taken a long time for an extra 100,000 deaths to raise a red flag as a confirmed anomaly.

    In other words, considering its comparatively small order of magnitude, the 2019 Covid death rate would have been easily missed amongst other uncertainty factors such as ‘flu death rate and falling life expectan

    cy.

    The cited paper’s conclusion says: These findings suggest that SARS-CoV-2 may have been introduced into the United States prior to 19 January 2020., which is absolutely not the same as “4-6 million Americans had been infected by December, 2019 and, based on a death doubling interval of 139 days and our peak death month, January, 2021”

    The 34 CDC authors went out on a limb to publish the article. Do you also want them to self-immolate by drawing the obvious conclusion: that Covid-19 has been endemic here for years, just as NIH Director Francis Collins said, “The Coronavirus might have been spreading quietly in humans for years, or even decades, without causing a detectable outbreak”.

    • Thanks: Ann Nonny Mouse
  240. @Rahan

    Again a comment that paints the outer borders of the waste-land, uses precise language, you sir are an above unz.com average content provider! Some wimpsy comments on you comment, pleas consider them mine, and please do not agree!

    Your comment misses the GPT-3[1](AI on language) effect on the readers:

    GPT-3 is Ron Unz at unz.com, in the best of cases highly tuned to the emotional bias of his readers, to the cognitive level of his readers …and still make sense.

    [MORE]

    Who are these readers over the median reach: probably consisting of a sweet spot in age of above retirement readers, Jewish, as in ethnicity and versed in ethnic solidarity. The journos dilettanting at unz.com being (((some-kind-of))) Jewish is not coincidence. They(Jewish contributors) have mostly Jewish groupies and are directly loyal to Ron, or booted. Then there is the carrot, of sponsoring redistributed. Middle class and somehow conservative Americans are the influencer´s target, this succeeds as much as the intermittent product-reader is within the overlap of the median cognitive map layer and all above.

    Ron Unz fine-tunes his writing (we call it 5000(words)-narrative(linear,recyclable) within the next linear scope, homogeneous over the cocatenated “book of Life according to Ron Unz”. To be laterally studded, or ingeniously opposed and give it attention by a “team” of (majority) Jewish journos, and a rest-factor of mostly “minority” actors. The produced text(in the case of Ron Unz to be a ready product, time-lines of posterity) is then wrapped by mostly Jewish commenters. Resulting in the “tone” of argumentative quarrelling that “should” stand the test of reality. All techniques well versed and documented within the analog to digital generation of “New York Times” and publishing houses.

    GTP-3 c-a-n, in few cases, for now, ascertain some common veritas, as it is versed(most of the time) in polished nonsense. “Polished” being the goal at unz.com. There is a pride in respecting syntax at the sentence level. A dip into the pool of toxic data, to make counter-arguments is systematical.

    Thus: our suggestion, not holding you responsible or to the task, your clearly analytically correct, and far larger scope within the environmental reality is ill begotten. It clashes with the serotonin-adrenalin mixing at unz.com, and it´s rational elementary, the methodology of reasoning in an expressive way, is going unseen. Your arguments will not be contested, but ignored. You are not “one of them”. Somebody contributing to meaningful analysis belongs to “independent” streaks, be it on the individual level. Your comment is “buried” and there is no upward mobility (it deserves a lead article).

    Try posting as a duplicate your comment, in plain text on some domain address, and link to it here at unz.com. Migrations have uses, make it easy to link back to unz.com explicitly, for the few within skinners and scanners of unz.com are not well versed in internet technicalities. Make your posted comment contributable in some way. You would teach some at unz.com a valuable lesson, in how to use the explanatory, the method, into comprehensible organizing and be a low-tech alternative to the, for now and much brute forcing and corrupting cycles later of GTP-3 (use keywords, deploying a particular syntax to make your lonely comment at the domain level easy to digest for google indexing).

    Footnote: [1]GTP-3: AI, make “science” out of narratives, use language with the precision of mathematics, forget the distance between the slow(an advantage in energy consumption, not so aero-dynamic by evolution, cooled by the yawn) human mind and the automation of that mind into surpassing and distancing the creator, engineer, the user. That´s the promise of AI, put the peanut in charge of the ape!

    Synopsis: So blatantly convinced that your original takes are wasted to most at unz.com. Secondly, a further hint to the refuse of Ron Unz to address the sumarily the totality of circumference of Covid, before digging potholes within the perimeter of the phenomenon.

    Not edited: Little time to assess what has been done ages ago. Attend me on any spell and syntax errors, it is not pharmaceutics, but warped time frames that cause most of the matter. Eternally grateful for the help in mastering the US-en intrinsicacies.

  241. @Godfree Roberts

    You completely evade my question. Iris has not answered it. She has merely pointed to some difficulties about being certain about actual figures.

    If you can produce a chart of cases and deaths, with figures, you must surely be able to contrast them with the official ones.

    Also Iris’sassumptions are flawed because she completely ignores what conscientious observant clinicians do. They notice the different and anomalous. That’s what the eye specialist who told his colleagues about it on social media and subsequently died of Covid 19 did.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  242. @That Would Be Telling

    “Tell us about any existing “cures,” any treatments that are really good at mitigating acute virus infections. I know of none”
    Of course you are correct that vaccines have absolutely no positive ACUTE effects once someone has a serious (as in the Elderly) Covid-19 infection. Most drugs have no acute effects in hospitalized patients, with the very critical exceptions of glucocorticoids, and in about a third of the patients, anticlotting drugs (such as tPA and heparins)
    Veterinarians use glucocorticoids as Standard of Care for serious acute respiratory infections. Chinese clinical immunologists published in MARCH, 2020 that glucocorticoids were acutely effective in Covid-19 (by blocking/ shutting down cytokine storm); British researchers published in midJune 2020 that glucocorticoids were “curative” in about a third of their cases, the only drug to so so (similar to what Dr. Kawasaki found in the 1970s). The WHO of course raised objections, only acknowledging in August that glucocorticoids may sometimes be effective in serious cases of Covid-19. Although still not approved for Covid-19 by the FDA (only useless– says the WHO– but very expensive remdesivir has been approved among small molecule drugs), ACUTE glucocorticoids, cheap and available, now are standard of care in serious, hospitalized Covid-19 cases. An aside, physicians studying asthmatics to gauge their expected increased risk from Covid-19 were shocked to discover LOWER risk, a fact traced to their use of glucocorticoid inhalers. Acute short-term glucocorticoid use is lifesaving (and would have made a huge difference in NYC in April 2020). Glucocorticoids can only be used short term (and many asthmatics with long term use of glucocorticoid inhalers develop serious issues).

    [MORE]

    Clotting is a bit different in that it is not a universal problem in Covid-19 (and initial careful “gold standard” clinical trials showed a net negative effect of heparins and anti-clotting agents, despite strong positive effects in observational trials). IL-6 is the major inducer of liver acute phase proteins, many strongly pro-coagulant. Anti IL-6 antibodies and drugs had no positive acute effect, but are very expensive and targeted; the “sledgehammer” of glucocorticoids does the same thing, as well as being “curative” and inexpensive in acute serious Covid-19 cases. Heparins, and eventually coumarin or other anticlotting agents seem effective in the minority of hospitalized patients who have serious clotting issues with Covid-19. Prophylactic dosing with low dose aspirin should minimize the need for anti-clotting drugs.
    Most effective repurposed drugs for Covid-19 require pretreatment, as do vaccines, and often work better in combination (as do most drugs for diabetes, AIDS, hypertension, and other serious conditions; only the FDA is hung up on monotherapies). There is no money for decent clinical trials of drugs off patent, only observational trials, mostly abroad.
    Since you brought him up, I respect Derek Lowe as a chemist. However he is hardly an expert on the biological side of drug development, and he’s particularly weak on adverse drug effects. Moreover he is a bit of a Pharma toady, more interested in new, extremely targeted, extremely expensive drugs than in repurposing old, but effective, cheap drugs.
    A great example is hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), which had been shown effective against SARS in vitro (I believe Fauci is co-author of at least one of the several papers?) HCQ is used extensively in third world countries, probably selecting for resistant pathogens. After idiot Trump endorsed HCQ, and the media “anti-endorsed” the drug, reviling it as ineffective and dangerous, its use dropped globally (now largely supplanted by ivermectin). The biggest problem with HCQ is it takes forever to reach effective levels. Even for malaria, two weeks pre-doing is recommended before potential exposure to the (now largely resistant) parasite. For lupus, arthritis and other autoimmune diseases HCQ may take months of dosing before efficacy is reached. It is obviously useless in someone on a ventilator, or hospitalized with Covid-19 (as useless as giving a Covid-19 vaccine to an infected individual). Politicizing drugs is dangerous. HCQ does NOT cause arrhythmias except with overdosing (its toxicity is ocular, chronic and rare with years of dosing). HCQ has been approved for type II diabetes in India since 2014, is effective as SGLT-2 inhibitors, but obviously inexpensive, and extremely safe; you don’t give toxic drugs to diabetics. Several other drugs and nutrients have been shown to have salubrious effects pre-treating people who are vulnerable to Covid-19. In a small percentage of vaccinated individuals there will likely be problems, and it will be important to have parallel treatment regimens to further protect from the virus and its variants.

    • Replies: @James Forrestal
  243. @Rahan

    @Rahan

    Essential, to the core!

    • Thanks: Rahan
  244. @Ever Becoming

    Commenter Wizard of Oz was joking when he made a similar comment, E.B. No doubt Roberts and Romanoff are a couple of Commie cranks. However, you can see up top that Mr. Unz does advertise “controversial perspectives”, and he aims to supply just that.

    I can ignore these ridiculous cranks, and it’s balanced out by your J. Derbyshire here, your Ron Pauls, Michelle Malkins, Steve Sailers, Audacious Epigones, and the VDare guys. I’d put Mr. Paul Kersey in another class of truth-telling controversial perspective altogether. If anything will get Mr. Unz in trouble, it’ll be Paul Kersey’s column. Mr. Unz says that the ADL has the Lyin’ Press acting like this site doesn’t exist, rather than going after him directly. If that’s the case, it’s fine with me.

    I do agree that Ron Unz is more pro-China than the actual political situation warrants. Controlled opposition? No. I don’t mean you here, E.B., but most of the time I read “controlled opposition” I figure that statement itself is the only controlled opposition going on at the time.

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  245. @gotmituns

    Derbyshire is just sustenting R. Unz, nothing less, nothing more. These are second-line tactics to keep R. Unz relevant.

  246. Trevor says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    I don’t receive the Epoch Times.

    I read several articles last year after the COVID breakout that discussed how animals got to the wet market.

    I have always thought that the virus came out of a lab one way or another.

    If you have a pertinent Epoch Times article I would appreciate a link.

  247. Waz says:
    @Abdul Alhazred

    I was wondering how long it would be before Shimatsu got a mention, even just to shout him down for being too outlandish – which no one has that I know of. Consider:

    Badgers (or members of the Mustelidae family) not bats for the source of virus;
    Tilapia fish in Wuhan being the vector;
    Recognising the World Military Games as being the source of the virus outbreak;
    Naming the key scientists involved (only Frank Plummer, deceased, being common to other sites);
    Naming key laboratories involved;
    Recognising the added HIV and TB strands to the SARS virus;
    His speculation as to those responsible might surprise;
    Theory on the benefit of early childhood BCG inoculation to give a level of Covid immunity;
    Theory on the Jet Streams carrying the virus from the Chinese crematoriums to the major Northern Hemisphere megacities (Urban Heat Islands).

  248. @Mark G.

    Thanks for bringing up these salient points. The amount of young people dying of Spanish Flu was very marked, particularly aged 20 to 30, in the prime of life. In some impoverished parts of the world, some people literally died by the roadside. In the industrialised parts of the world, conditions were little better.
    The story of my grandmother’s cousin illustrates the matter. In autumn 1918, like many young women she was working in a munitions factory, replacing conscripted male labour. She left shift early on Friday afternoon, complaining of being very unwell, and went back to her lodging house. She was found dead in her bed on Monday morning. She was 21 years old. Worldwide, there were millions like her. That’s what real pandemics do, unlike COVID.

    • Agree: Mark G.
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  249. Now, what if there isn’t a virus at all?

    There is good reason to question the existence of the virus, and it was how they pumped the previous scam of Global Warming, that led to a flurry of scientific papers proving the government assertion of a carbon dioxide threat. Since government funds those that participate in the scam, science “proved” the assertion as “true”.

    Likewise with Covid-19, a pre-planned exercise in totalitarian world takeover, the money and bribes flowed to impress the propaganda on the public, until the virus and pandemic became normalized as a real thing.

    [MORE]

    In both cases of the demonization of the life gas CO2 and Covid “molecule”, the target of the war was a tiny invisible microscopic thing that you can not detect with your own eyes or other senses, and maybe not even with a good university telescope. Thus, you had to take their word for the existence of Covid. The scanning electronic microscope showed little balls of something, then with pre-made graphic of a Covid “thing” you are led to believe that these little balls of something is the existential threat to humanity requiring you to social distance, wear a mask, not go to work or vacation, and especially the need for a vaccination to treat this “thing” they have impressed upon your mind.

    So this all happened, Global Warming was the preceding template of the scam, and with Covid they stampeded the public into getting vaccinated with some untested, unproven and unlicensed vaccine of dubious quality which resulted in millions of people getting injured from the vax, injuries that exceeded the supposed virus.

    Now we argue about where it came from, which state actors involved, the role of Bill Gates, Anthony Fauci, and Klaus Scwab, all known very wealthy scammers – but at no time during the last 14 months have we proven that there was anything real behind the initial assertion that there was a virus, which is exactly the same with Global Warming freakout which asserted CO2 was the driver of temperature. Well Virginia, CO2 doesn’t control the temperature of earth, the sun does, and the entire CO2 scam was used to drive green energy projects that benefited certain investors and Elon Musk who farms the carbon credit subsidies. The very same Bill Gates who is neck deep in WHO and stands to profit from mass vaccinations has a project to obscure sunlight and says we must go to zero carbon otherwise we all will die from runaway warming. He’s wrong and insane.

    The point is, since we know they are whipping us up into a frenzy promoting a scam for profit and state control of our lives, we should be very skeptical of everything they promoted, including the initial assertion of a virus that escaped from some lab in Wuhan.

  250. @Jerry Alatalo

    Frankenshots — good one. I wonder what 5G towers will do to those who got them?

    Another recent good moniker, for our bimbo (fake) POTUS — crash test dummy.

  251. @Wizard of Oz

    “You completely evade my question.”

    You asked him:

    “How does your death doubling chart compare with officially reported figures? What explains differences?”

    Since when is Godfree Roberts you research assistant? Why not look into it yourself?

    “Iris has not answered it. She has merely pointed to some difficulties about being certain about actual figures.”

    Since when are Godfree Roberts and/or Iris your research assistants? Why not look into it yourself and propound some kind of meaningful counterargument, rather than just being contrary?

    “If you can produce a chart of cases and deaths, with figures, you must surely be able to contrast them with the official ones.”

    Since when is Godfree Roberts your research assistant? Rather than just being contrary, you must surely be able to find some set of “official” figures and compare it with what he presented.

    “Also Iris’sassumptions are flawed because she completely ignores what conscientious observant clinicians do. They notice the different and anomalous. That’s what the eye specialist who told his colleagues about it on social media and subsequently died of Covid 19 did.”

    LOL! Seriously? You come across as a person who doesn’t know much about Covid-19 and its heterogeneous clinical manifestations; a person who’s had no real-world experience with the health care system in the U.S.; and a person completely unfamiliar with the corrupt U.S. “government.”

    FYI the clinicians involved with the outbreak of the “mysterious respiratory illness” at the Greenspring Retirement Community in Springfield, VA in June and July of 2019, apparently realized that they were dealing with something unusual, so they apparently notified the state health dept. and the CDC and they apparently got nowhere. The corrupt and incompetent CDC let them down. What else would you have expected them to do?

    • Thanks: Godfree Roberts
  252. @Dieter Kief

    “On the other hand, the Swiss did just fine so far.”

    “So far,” indeed. Armstrong’s blog reports that the Swiss are cancelling their currency in an effort to force an all digital cow pie currency.

  253. @Achmed E. Newman

    Thanks for refocusing, the duck and deceit has held a v-e-r-y long time, from the density of the reactions you finally ring the bell!

  254. Dumbo says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    It is you who don’t understand… Anything. What nation-states? Mixed-race nations are not “nation states”….

    I’m too bored to reply. But since you appear to have manage to have caught COVID twice, it doesn’t seem to be such big a deal then (other than a hassle and a good excuse for radical changes).

    Usually, those who make apologies for Jews and zillionaire NWO types, or say “it’s just a fantasy, a conspiracy theory”, well, one should suspect such types by default.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  255. @Rahan

    Slightly off? There must be blur between Corporations and State Actors, between territory and time-lines, over ethnicities and class hurdles.

    • Replies: @Rahan
  256. @Astuteobservor II

    Exactly.

    (1) The National Security establishment — ie, The Deep State, CIA, War-for-Profit MIC, Neocons — consider rising power China an enemy.

    (2) The CIA et al know that a direct military attack to bring China down, either conventional or nuclear, is impractical.

    (3) Whereas a bioweapons attack, executed in a manner which obscures its origin, is a viable attack strategy.

    (4) The plan for such an attack, detailed and well thought out, would certainly include additional elements to amplify the damage — materially, politically, economically — as well as help to conceal the identity of the attackers.

    (5) “Partnering” with the Chinese target, by “collaborating” in gain of function research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, creates both a target location — a transport hub to facilitate the spread of the virus throughout China — and a plausible “hypothesis” — the “lab leak” hypothesis — with which to deflect blame from the actual perpetrator, and amplify the attack damage by blaming the victim — the evil communist China — with negligently unleashing a deadly pandemic, on the world.

    (6) It is impossible that the CIA et al would have been unaware of the gain-of-function research collaboration with the Wuhan Institute of Virology sponsored by Fauci et al. Rather, considering the additional “clues”, it is more likely that the CIA enlisted Fauci or other “assets”, and promoted the “collaboration” with the specific intent of using it as an element in the attack.

    (7) Finally, this is precisely what one would expect from arch psychopath Pompeo, whose position in government prior to moving up to head the Neocon State Department was — surprise! surprise! — as head of the CIA.

    See Ron Unz’s American Pravda series on the origin of Covid-19 for the details that are beyond the scope of this short comment.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
  257. @Trevor

    A simple explanation, your wet-market thought, Trevor. Needs not be wrong.

  258. @Harold Smith

    Before interacting with this “Wizard of Oz” character, be aware that he/she/they often draw other commenters in with questions and requests that are seldom resolved to his/her/their satisfaction, or with cryptic insinuations that distract discussion.

    The same person also fuzzes up threads by pretending to be more than one commenter, the technique known as “sock puppetry.” See under Mr. Derbyshire’s February 15, 2019, article comment ## 28, 42, 43, 44, 68, 122, where he/she/they got sloppy also posting as “Anon[436].” (Trying to elicit an admission back in January yielded only more extended dissembling, including a preposterous assertion that I am no different for having commented anonymously before being “nudged” into adopting a handle by Mr. Unz.)

    Among this website’s oddest, sophisticatedly trollish commenters.

    • Thanks: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Ivan
    , @Wizard of Oz
  259. @Curmudgeon

    I know people that work in a Level 4 lab. While it is not impossible for something to escape with safety violations, they would have to be Fort Detrick level violations for that to happen, not minor infractions which were documented at Wuhan.

    According to Nicholas Wade, some of the dangerous work at Wuhan was done at Level 2, simply because it is very inconvenient to work at BSL-4. That is not a minor infraction.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  260. Mr. Anon says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    Tell us about any existing “cures,” any treatments that are really good at mitigating acute virus infections.

    Who says they have to be good at mitigating acute virus infections? How about mitigating a viral infection before it becomes acute? Our medical establishment’s preferred advice to people who have tested positive for SARSCOV2 has been: “Go home, take two aspirin, and come back when you can barely breathe anymore.”

    That’s what a lot of practicing physicians, as well as others who have studied the matter claimed that HCL/Zinc and/or Ivermectin did – arrest the progression of the disease before ARD sets in and requires hospital treatment. But these treatments, though quite cheap, and with a lot of clinical experience behind them, were pooh-poohed as ineffective by people who probably never even investigated them, or if they did, referred to poor, shoddy, or outright fraudulent studies which largely seemed to have been designed to scupper any further consideration of those treatments.

    • Agree: michael888
    • Replies: @michael888
  261. Mr. Anon says:
    @Verymuchalive

    The Asian Flu of 1957/58 was also very hard on the young. I read that 40% of the deaths in the US were children under the age of five.

    The difference with this pandemic is that it’s killing a lot of the Me Generation, and they believe that nothing bad should ever be permitted to happen to them. And, generally, people are softer and less religious than in times past and hence more frightened of the prospect of death, even if remote.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
  262. @Voltarde

    There’s an intellectual hierarchy in science, and microbiologists and virologists are at the bottom of it.

    This might have been true 50 years ago, but the revolution in genetic knowledge and research techniques has changed the landscape. Try reading Yuri Deigin’s article (link above) and tell me that the ideas discussed there come from the bottom of the intellectual hierarchy. It is complex, difficult material, all the more so because to fully grasp the ideas expressed would require mastery not only of the theory, but also of a substantial number of difficult experimental techniques, combined with detailed knowledge of different virus families.

  263. Mr. Anon says:
    @Jeff Davis

    (1) The National Security establishment — ie, The Deep State, CIA, War-for-Profit MIC, Neocons — consider rising power China an enemy.

    Except the wealthy and powerful of the World, with whom (or for whom) all of those institutions work, seem to love China – they see it as model of the beehive-live World they wish to create – a neo-feudal imperium with a large underclass (though far fewer than today), a small class of regime-servants, and the elect few at the top. They view China as an ally in this, and a model for how to control the masses.

    And that same deep-state has been cultivating China and working to integrate it into the World economy for fifty years or more. And most neo-cons seem to despise Russia much more than China, if indeed they despise China at all.

    James Corbett has put forth the theory (I don’t know if I believe it, but it is interesting and worth consideration) that the nascent US/China cold-war is just Kabuki theater – an elaborate deception of which many of the players themselves (like the meathead Pompeo) are unaware, with the goal of fusing China into the neo-liberal globalist order and cementing the power of that order over the entire globe.

  264. @Dumbo

    Czech republic is a nation state; Poland is a nation state; Austria is a nation state; China is a nation state; Japan is a nation state; Denmark is a nation state; Germany is a nation state; Ireland is a nation state; Greece is a nation state; even Russia is a nation state.

    So, basically you didn’t say anything rooted in reality.

    • Replies: @James Forrestal
  265. @Mr. Anon

    There have been several articles discussing why approved, safe drugs are not being repurposed in a concerted effort to treat serious and breakthrough Covid-19. Clearly the FDA favors massive expensive clinical trials on ‘novel’ drugs (many of which failed earlier but are still on patent, justifying their trials) and single-mindedly pushed vaccines for a year, to the exclusion of developing parallel treatments. One only need look at Covid-19 death rates in Western countries (such as the US) and compare to the rest of the world (much of which has no access to vaccines, and are trying all sorts of older drugs (off patent so no one will pay for a gold standard clinical trial). Here is an article discussing the problem (cannot find the better one I read?) http://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/92224
    HCQ was rapidly politicized, but takes forever to work (although it also remains in the system forever and may have effects for a long time once loaded), and ivermectin (probably most used now, pushed in the US by FLCCC and Chris Martenson (whose advice was tolerated on Youtube until he pointed out Covid-19 could be treated effectively, before vaccines). Glucocorticoids were verboten according to the WHO, but now seem standard of care. Vitamins (D3, B complex, probably others) if deficient increase susceptibility to Covid-19; similarly selenium, zinc, and other nutrients if deficient give worse outcomes for the virus (and probably for other health issues). Famotidine, fluvoxamine, colchicine, quercetin, and others (I have a friend using the disinfectant povidone iodine added to saline in Neti pot nasal irrigation and mouthwashes) all have advocates, but no one can afford to do more than observational trials (similar to several recent trials on vaccine effects). While none of these treatments is curative like glucocorticoids in serious Covid-19 cases, all seem to have some efficacy and since their mechanisms of action are different, combinations would be expected to be much more effective. “Desperation, not necessity, is the mother of invention”, and countries without access to the best Western medicine have done well, as their much lower Covid-19 death rates show.

  266. @Achmed E. Newman

    Hey, what about a • Troll tag from Larry Romanoff? Ya’ out there, Larry? I need completion on this.

  267. Ivan says:
    @Greta Handel

    Oz would ask a question, apparently in all seriousness but provide no reply when one has gone to the trouble of digging up material and putting them in some order. One would then return to the thread searching in vain for some acknowledgement from him A sophisticated time waster, or a mad hatter.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  268. Erebus says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    Tell us about any existing “cures,” any treatments that are really good at mitigating acute virus infections. I know of none…

    It surprises no-one that you would claim to “know of none”, but there are a few that work surprisingly well.

    HCQ & Ivermectin work prophylactically, at the onset of symptoms, and in some cases even in the acute stages (esp. Ivermectin). They are both on the WHO’s list of essential medicines. Had they been indicated by the WHO, and in turn by the national medical authorities who follow its lead, COVID would’ve been a nothing-burger. Their omission, and subsequent suppression can’t be justified by any medical reasoning.

    “From the 8th of August to the 24th of December, I didn’t lose a patient.” And then it went viral…

    • Thanks: Dieter Kief
    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  269. Erebus says:
    @The Real World

    The magnetic phenomena likely to be quite real. This paper from 2014 entitled Superparamagnetic nanoparticle delivery of DNA vaccine discusses…

    The use of superparamagnetic iron oxide nanoparticles (SPIONs) to deliver genes via magnetofection shows promise in improving the efficiency of gene delivery both in vitro and in vivo.

    If I didn’t know anything about the deleterious effects of the mRNA vaccines before taking it, I’d be gluing a Neodymium magnet to my arm to keep that vaccine where it is after a magnet stuck to it. It’s after the magnetism dissipates, I’d wager, that the fun starts.

    • Thanks: The Real World
  270. windship says:

    Back when the bubonic plague and the Black Death roamed Eurasia killing a huge percentage of the small human population that existed back then, nobody was thinking this had been cooked up in a lab. Sure, where conflicts existed, infected body parts were hurled at the enemy, but by and large it was an organic biological event like any other on a planet rife with extinctions.

    Now that we are 8 billion and growing, making up nearly 95% of all terrestrial vertebrate biomass if you count our livestock and pets as well, we are simply due for a biological rebalancing.

    SARS erupted nearly twenty years ago, and those regions where the even more deadly virus erupted learned the consequences of not reacting very quickly. But then it kinda disappeared, and everyone got lazy again.

    Regardless of how it emerged in humans, Covid-19 is now running rampart through the global human herd. The Chinese knew right away that high-density urban populations were an impending catastrophe and did a lockdown right away, but not before a few Chinese travellers exported the damn thing to various countries like the US & Canada, Iran’s government and Italy’s textile center. There, the virus exploded, catching people by surprise.

    Now we have a full blown Gain of Function experiment running in high density populations like Brazil and India, and the virus is mutating rapidly. Some mutations will trick both our natural antibodies and those created by the mRNA vaccines, which were designed for the original Wuhan strain.

    Corona viruses have pretty good nano-script writing and gene editing software, but they do make mistakes. If they accidently create more virulence, this pest will be messing with us for awhile. If they start creating duds, then this Novelty Coronavirus will evolve itself out of a job.

    Meanwhile, take care of your immune system, more important than the jab.

    But the human population does not have a rosy future that appears to lack Novelty. The stupid may die in large numbers. Terrance McKenna had a feeling that the pace of Novelty was rapidly building, towards an eschaton that is still impossible to describe. The script is unfinished….

  271. @michael888

    An aside, physicians studying asthmatics to gauge their expected increased risk from Covid-19 were shocked to discover LOWER risk, a fact traced to their use of glucocorticoid inhalers.

    The problem with assessing risk in patients with preexisting respiratory conditions is that stratifying by severity of disease captures measures of their chronic disease as well as the effects of the acute infection.

    That said, lower risk cannot be accounted for by this effect. Seems like inhaled corticosteroids might be worth looking at in patients who don’t meet criteria for systemic use.

  272. @Dieter Kief

    Thanks. I think Sweden benefited from:
    1. Lockdowns in its only two real neighbors by land, Denmark and Norway
    2. Being very sparsely populated
    3. By nature more social distancing

    The Swiss model seems pretty optimized and a good alternative to the more intrusive East Asian one, wearing masks outside is no way to live life. I wonder if their political system is scalable or can only maintained in niche way. Very striking the contrast in Covid outcomes with south Germany.

    By the way, I’m more or less fluent in German and a close observer of Sino-German affairs, Rolf Hilgenfeld the Lübecker virologist was one of the first people to fly into China after the Wuhan lockdown last year, that was quite appreciated. Recently he’s said mutants could come as a danger in the fall.
    https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Wir-muessen-sehr-sehr-vorsichtig-sein-article22535445.html

    I see you’ve posted quite a bit before on Fromm. I thought we didn’t like (((Frankfurt School))) around here lol, but this sounds like a reasonable position.

    Erich Fromm, now comes to my mind: He clearly understood this and made the point numerously, that it’s foolish to abandon authority alltogether. He even made explicitly the case for the positive side of authority: Competence, factual knowledge, reliability, truth. But to no big effect, as it seems.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/chris-caldwell-on-a-new-french-theory-of-political-correctness/#comment-1845129

  273. @Amon

    I believe the general census is that the outbreak began in the summer of 2019 with the mysterious vapor illness among the young and the strange and the highly lethal outbreak of pneumonia among elders in nursing homes in the area around Ft. Detrick. Two illnesses that both just so happened to display the same mosaic pattern as covid lungs would be seen producing and has the same set of symptoms as C-19.

    Has SARS-COV-2 RNA has been sequenced from any samples taken from these patients? If not, there’s nothing to see here.

  274. @Piglet

    Hi, I’m responding here because I wanted to respond to a comment of yours, but its a couple of months old.

    You said one of your brothers went to law school, but is miserable now. May I ask why? Did he not like the field he ended up in? Was the law school good?

  275. @Yukon Jack

    You’re a Troll if you continue to push this ridiculous meme after I quote the toxicologist’s maxim, “The dose makes the poison.” And the fact that one vendor of this chemical doesn’t make it in pharmaceutical quality, or has one version that isn’t? Please. But if you really believed this propaganda you’d stop drinking water, it after all has a lethal dose 50% of less than 10 liters if drunk all at once.

    You are too short for this ride, far too ignorant of SCIENCE!!! and the real world of physics, chemistry, biology, and medicine.

  276. anon[476] • Disclaimer says:

    Someone needs to investigate and explain this article:
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/11/us/virginia-retirement-community-respiratory-illness-outbreak/index.html

    This happened a month after Ft. Detrick was shut down for failing safety protocols, and it is an hour’s drive from Ft. Detrick.

    Also, friend of a friend who works in the intelligence community in DC told him in February 2020 that Covid was not new, many people in DC area already had it by Thanksgiving 2019, they all just took antibiotics and got over it.

    • Thanks: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @anon
  277. anon[476] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    Actually Ft. Detrick was ordered shut down by CDC on July 15 2019, 4 days after the CNN article on Greespring Senior Living Center outbreak came out:

    https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/11/24/cdc-inspection-findings-reveal-more-about-fort-detrick-research-suspension.html

    Ft. Detrick is 57 miles from the Greespring Senior Living Community in VA.

    Per Wiki (on Ft. Detrick):

    In August 2019, its deadly germ research operations were abruptly shutdown following serious safety violations, in particular relating to the disposal of dangerous materials

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
  278. @That Would Be Telling

    Perhaps you are the troll pushing the science of vaccinations, especially these modern quack medicine jabs which are killing far more than the supposed virus. The fake super-hyped pandemic (plandemic, scamdemic) is being used to stampede the public into getting vaxxed, and those behind the push are known global depopulationists like Klaus Schwab and Bill Gates (who even bragged that vaccines are used for culling, see video).

    Bill Gates Wants a Billion Dead! Vaccines and global depopulation! – TEDX Talks

    “The world today has 6.8 billion people. That’s headed up to about nine billion. Now, if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by, perhaps, 10 or 15 percent.” — Bill Gates

    Bill Gates thinks that CO2 is going to cause warming, but he is wrong as CO2 has never warmed the earth in the last 4.5 billion years:

    There is not one shred of evidence that getting a Covid vaccine will protect you from Covid, as Covid is an unknown, and those vaxxed are falling over dead left and right, are potential shredders of whatever deadly concoction is in the dose – that does all kinds of things like: immediate death, delayed death, uncontrolled vomiting, skin rashes, swelling of legs that require amputation, face paralysis, …

    [MORE]

    Most common symptoms include:

    Fever

    Dry cough

    Tiredness

    Less common symptoms:

    Aches and pains

    Sore throat

    Diarrhea

    Conjunctivitis

    Headache

    Loss of taste or smell

    a rash on skin, or discoloration of fingers or toes

    Serious symptoms:

    Difficulty breathing or shortness of breath

    Chest pain or pressure

    Loss of speech of movement

    The side effects of the Covid vaxx are so horrific I would rather take a bullet and die quickly then risk years of agonizing ailment, and if they held me down and vaxxed me against my will I would immediately get a razor and bleed out the poison like a snake bite. No vaxx for me because I KNOW it is a scam. No doubt about it, it is a globalist scam and power grab, and if you can’t see it you must be a shill or really dumb – and you say you are a scientist so that eliminates the later, thus I say you are an industry shill.

    Now please show me the study and trials that prove COVID-19 vaccines protect against the SARS-CoV-2 virus. There are none because they rushed the vaxx into circulation and they are using the population like guinea pigs. Then we have big Covid outbreaks after a nation gets the Covid vaxx, so what say you about that besides the obvious that the vaxx is causal.

  279. @Rahan

    Shorter version: anyone who claims that the US health care system could quickly and accurately identify the proximate cause of a few hundred thousand deaths over the course of several years, has forgotten about Vioxx.

    Longer version for those with ‘Dory’-type memories…

    Vioxx was causing enough harm that it tangibly changed US mortality statistics when it was removed from the market. Estimates vary, but even Merck has admitted that their poison – which had fuck-all tangible benefit, even in Merck’s own studies – caused 140,000 additional cardiac events and 60,000 deaths in the US alone.

    When evaluating a pharma firm’s statements – especially (non-)admissions of guilt or fault – the phrase “falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus” should immediately springs. These firms have track records which make career criminals look like choirboys.

    Example: Merck claimed that there was a 79% increase in cardiac events for Vioxx users, when their own internal study (which they hid because they are absolute fucking vermin) showed that the increased risk was more like a HR/OR of 5-7 (i.e., a 500-700% increase above baseline).

    I dislike relative risk measures, as I’ve made clear: but if Merck had been honest and disclosed all its internal studies, then Vioxx would never have been approved because its RR/OR/HR was resoundingly poor.

    I have seen some quite good empirical work that supports a figure more like 500,000 deaths during the life of the drug (1999-2004) – without the need for any form of statistical legerdemain.

    Vioxx passed all regulatory hurdles. It was one of Merck’s successful products. They have recently tried to rehabilitate it, because they know that they can buy regulators and legislators as one would a call-girl, and because all involved are absolute fucking vermin.

    Taking a mid-range estimate of additional fatalities, Vioxx was a 9/11 every month for 5 years… and nobody noticed.

    And now people are prepared to believe what Pfizer (another serial offender), AstraZeneca (ditto) and J&J (the asbestos baby-powder guys) have to say about the product that will be their most profitable product since – and probably including – Lipitor.

    Anyone who believes a word of it, quite literally shows that they do not have the cognitive machinery that is a minimum requirement to participate in adult conversations.

    • Agree: Rahan, acementhead
  280. @Ivan

    Not true at least intentionally unless someone’s purported reply is so inadequate as to show lack of comprehension or evasive unwillingness to admit error.

  281. @Harold Smith

    Ever heard of cross,-examination or the Socratic method? In this case you have blundered in and missed the obvious.

    I was seeking to understand what Godfree Roberts was saying by reference to something he might contrast it to. Would we be talking about the same thing or would we discover we were in parallel worlds of discourse that didn’t allow valid comparison.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  282. @Greta Handel

    What a good memory you have! You have remembered well what you have said many times before, first hatched and ejected before you emerged from your anonymous chrysalis . Or do you now have it reduced to pressing Alt-W?

    • Replies: @Greta Handel
  283. mapman says:

    Sigh, this comment section is sad. It almost feels like a brain disease.

    1. Baric’s paper reports on chimera with of mouse-adapted SARS. As such, this rendered a layer of safety, since all of virology research before suggests that viruses well adapted to different species tend to not be particularly infectious and/or dangerous for the original species they came from.

    2. Roughly half of all known coronaviruses have furin site in their S protein. Although closest SARS-1/SARS-2 relatives, sarbecoviruses, don’t, it shows that such mutations/adaptations happen all the time.

    3. There are exactly zero signs of the actual SARS-2 genome manipulation. None. The codons of S protein are not human-adapted, and literally all vaccines and most of the research done on SARS-2 do bother to codon-optimize for better expression in human cells.

    4. Vero E6 cells is ubiquitous monkey cells line found in literally every virology lab and available from ATCC to cheaply purchase by anyone affiliated with research organization.

    5. SARS-2 S protein is not uniquely optimized for infecting humans. Thorough experiments (as opposed to bullshitting with models and molecular dynamics on computers) definitely show that it is not.

    6. Consider the priors: We’ve seen several zoonotic spillovers in the past two decades causing significant epidemics. In contrast, lab escapes (which do happen, of course) causing an epidemic have never happened before.

    Wade is right: There is no way to distinguish natural evolution and evolution from passaging of bat virus on human cells to promote human adaptation. So both zoonotic and lab leak origins remain plausible. But it is completely retarded to think that zoonotic origin has been disproved or even that it is far less likely than a lab leak. Even if it was a lab leak, the only way to prove it is if the Chinese cooperate, which they never would if they are responsible.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    , @Harold Smith
  284. @Wizard of Oz

    No, I just go back to one of our exchanges, highlight it, select Copy, and then Paste here. Like so, from back in January which I’ll Blockquote, too:

    True or false:

    Under Mr. Derbyshire’s February 15, 2019, article, comment ## 28, 42, 43, 44, 68, 122, you are both “Wizard of Oz” and “Anon[436].”

    You needn’t bother going back to look for your reply to that one.

  285. Keith_ says:

    We may never be able to prove for sure that Covd-19 was engineered in the Wuhan lab in a program funded by Dr Fauci but what we can say with complete certainty is that Dr Fauci funded a gain-of-function program in Wuhan to create a virus JUST LIKE COVID-19 i.e. a coronavirus engineered to be highly pathogenetic in humans.

    Given these FACTS it seems to me that the onus should be on Dr Fauci to prove that Covid-19 was not one of his Franken-viruses. While the Chinese are never going to cooperate it seems to me that NIH and Fauci’s NIAID must be in possession of a ton of documentation from the work done in the labs. Fauci was not sending Wuhan millions of dollars and getting nothing in return. There should be an order to the NIH and NIAD to release ALL documentation related to the programs they funded in Wuhan – every report and every correspondence must be released so that the worlds science community can evaluate.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  286. Rahan says:
    @PetrOldSack

    I just want to say: thank you for the great replies you occasionally make to my comments. I’ve noticed, and it’s very motivating!

  287. @Greta Handel

    Very efficient.. It is yonks since I used an Anon and when I found an error I wanted to correct in one of my three allowed Replies to about 6 reples to me I discovered bug which you can read about in Ron’s recentvBugs and Corrections thread.

    As I am in favour of Ron’s public spirited endeavours I half excuse myself from the charge of indulging in displacement activity in reading and commenting on UR by the most respectable purpose of my posts . That is to behave like an Oxbridge philosophy tutor who seeks to keep up standards amongst those bright enough to do better. Even the smartest on UR need it from time to time.

    • Replies: @Greta Handel
  288. Steven80 says:
    @Alfred

    Thanks for this, it is quite concerning. I’m not at all surprised, having read about the “vaccines”:

    ‘MRNA vaccine blocks protein that helps formation of human placenta’
    https://mattbell.org/mrna-vaccine-blocks-protein-that-helps-formation-of-human-placenta

    and this

    Head of Pfizer Research: Covid Vaccine is Female Sterilization
    https://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/head-of-pfizer-research-covid-vaccine-is-female-sterilization

    By the way, I tried to send the second link to a friend through facebook messenger, and the software is blocking it 🙂 It is like Big Tech is teling me I am on the right path.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  289. MEH 0910 says:
    @mapman

    In contrast, lab escapes (which do happen, of course) causing an epidemic have never happened before.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Russian_flu

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    , @mapman
  290. @Greta Handel

    I forgot to confess my (enjoyable) sins of the past when UR was not even a a twinkle in Ron’s eye. On a number of blogs which seemed to attract as well as be set up by people who were dogmatic and took themselves too seriously there was rarely the software to stop sock puppets proliferating. So my name could be legion (a curious expression of dubious logic but it has the right feel). If criticised Sock Pockt 1 might rouse himself to say that behind the modest pseudonym he was sure that was a most distinguished Prof of Climate Science who had lectured to him and who the other ignorant commenter was insulting. And so on and deviously on with self awarded prizes for sucking them in despite, eventually, give-aways.

  291. @Wizard of Oz

    Classic, including the double suck up to “Ron” that may be what’s kept you around.

    Comment ## 68 and 122 in that 2019 Derbyshire thread — both directed to “Wizard of Oz” and ignored — were:

    Are “Anon[436]” and “Wizard of Oz” the same commenter?

    and

    I repeat: Are “Anon[436]” and “Wizard of Oz” the same commenter?

    You still haven’t answered, just provisionally proffered some techno-gibberish excuse that you’ll later walk back on if you think you can get away with it.

    Consider asking “Ron” for a new, clean slate pseudonym and starting over.

    • Thanks: Wizard of Oz
  292. A Final Warning to Humanity from Former Pfizer Chief Scientist Michael Yeadon



    Video Link

    Let’s face it it’s never been about the Covid19 virus that’s never been isolated, the only thing that had been isolated is influenza A and influenza B.

    This has always been about the NWO take over depopulation, and control of the world to enslave humanity under a one world satanic Government.

    • Thanks: Dieter Kief
  293. @Keith_

    While the Chinese are never going to cooperate it seems to me that NIH and Fauci’s NIAID must be in possession of a ton of documentation from the work done in the labs.

    So the uncooperative Chinese are somehow preventing the U.S. CDC from identifying the pathogen responsible for the outbreak of the “mysterious respiratory illness” at the Greenspring Retirement Community in Springfield, VA, in June and July of 2019?

    https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/health-officials-to-give-update-after-respiratory-illness-sickens-dozens-at-virginia-retirement-community/135890/

    And the uncooperative Chinese somehow caused the Florida Dept. of Health to remove previously released information showing that the virus was already widespread in the state of Florida months earlier than officially acknowledged?

    https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/florida-coronavirus-up-to-171-cases-detected-in-jan-feb-health-officials-say/

    Those damn Chinese. Is there any bad thing going on in the world today that’s not ultimately their (or Russia’s) fault?

  294. mapman says:
    @MEH 0910

    Please read more than Wikipedia and National Post (! – really?). There is practically no way the 1997 flu was an accidental release from the lab. It almost certainly was shoddy a vaccine trial in China. The virus was significantly attenuated and it was detected simultaneously in several regions.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
    , @MEH 0910
  295. Alfred says:
    @Steven80

    Thanks.

    It is amazing that only you and GMC seem to have noticed the implications of the video I put up there.

    They are all prattling on about the origins of the “virus”. But who gives a fuck whether it came from the toilet of Bill Gates or the underwear of Xi Jinping. The important thing is what they have lined up for the sheeple. Far more people are having long probes putting poison alongside their brains than are getting the fake virus. The cunts. 🙁

    Please excuse me while I retch.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  296. @mapman

    Sigh, this comment section is sad. It almost feels like a brain disease.

    Well considering your comment here, I would have to agree.

    But it is completely retarded to think that zoonotic origin has been disproved or even that it is far less likely than a lab leak. Even if it was a lab leak, the only way to prove it is if the Chinese cooperate, which they never would if they are responsible.

    What’s “completely retarded” is to pretend that the investigation into the origin of SARS-CoV-2 depends exclusively on China, while studiously ignoring the apparent fact that the U.S. “government” is stonewalling the effort – particularly regarding anything suggesting that the virus was in the U.S. before it was detected in China.

  297. @mapman

    Please cite the evidence in support of your claims.

  298. @Alfred

    They are all prattling on about the origins of the “virus”. But who gives a fuck whether it came from the toilet of Bill Gates or the underwear of Xi Jinping.

    That’s like saying: “who gives a fuck” whether my recently-nearly-fatal sudden illness was the result of my wife trying to poison me to collect the insurance money or whether it was the result of food poisoning from the cheddar fries I had at the bar the other day.

    The important thing is what they have lined up for the sheeple.

    And if they keep getting away with crimes like 9/11 and (most likely) Covid-19, which are always blamed on the enemy du jour, what’s next for the sheeple, maybe a nuke in your home town blamed on Iran? We’re dealing with criminally insane madmen here whose lies need to be vigorously challenged.

    • Replies: @Alfred
  299. @Harold Smith

    If so, then it’s that of Iran, or maybe Syria or Venezuela.

    Blinken now has Pompeo’s list, if you need something official.

    • LOL: Harold Smith
  300. @Mr. Anon

    George Soros and Klaus Schwab, to name but two, certainly don’t want anything bad happening to themselves. Anything bad is strictly for us peasants.

  301. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Ban this moniker for not being short and simple, before your website turns into a cesspool of ellipses and enjambment.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  302. @Ever Becoming

    No need for banning. How about just chop it off at, lemme see … Achmed E. Newman .. 16 characters? That’ll do.

    • Replies: @Ever Becoming
  303. @Achmed E. Newman

    Hilarious, I was just thinking you were one of Ronz’ sock puppets, and here you go answering a comment that I addressed to him.

    I think you need to give Hillbob more minutes!

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  304. @Ever Becoming

    No, dillweed, your comment was addressed to the guy with the extra-long handle. Remember that? It was only 1.8 hours ago.

    • Troll: Ever Becoming
  305. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    Yeah, the Frankfurt School has a bad image, but hey: The devil has one too – and look what Goethe (or the medieval painters of the Rhine Valley especially) made out of him. – Intellectuals that don’t itch are lazy birds and of not much use.

    Can Switzerland be scaled up? – It should be.

    How could this be done? – Study it well – and in rich detail study: How the devil within Switzerland somehow was always a possibility – but did not do much harm in the long run even though.

    Understand that the members of the elite in Switzerland are grounded – brought back to the basics of everyday life’s reality time and time again by their regular guys – the average craftsperson, nurse, construction worker, carpenter, clerk – via direct democrazy. (I think a lot about this stuff and was very glad to find a company in thinking such thoughts through by the likes of Jonathan Haidt, Jordan Peterson – and Peter Turchin in a way too. The idea of a nerdy elite is one thing, the idea of interdependence of the brighter ones and the more rooted and grounded ones is better (Hegel did check in here already, Freud in a way too). Here’s a young man diving into this realm just recently:

    https://quillette.com/2021/04/03/persuasion-and-the-prestige-paradox-are-high-status-people-more-likely-to-lie/

    [MORE]

    One strain of reason in Switzerland that could be scaled up is the will to communicate – publicly. In the beginning, they brought their weapons with them to their public deliberations in the Landstände (public democratic gatherings) – to secure free speech, to put it simply. And it worked.

    Another impressive accomplishment the Swiss managed to make was, that they publicly talked/debated themselves out of a religious civil war when Protestantism grew stronger and put a threat to the Swiss Catholics.  – They did so by the means of big public debates in churches mainly. – I know of no other example like that in world history. Contrast that with the 30-year war in the rest of Northern Europe and you get an idea.

    To scale this up, it might be necessary to refer not only to the work of those I named above but also to Jürgen Habermas’ Theory of Communicative Action. – This is philosophically and sociologically as tough as it can get. I have easily ten thousand pages of this man’s work behind me and I know what’s at stake here. My hope was, that there could be distilled a more robust and simpler version of his work. But it is in the world and will always be a landmark in that regard. With the help of Occam, Goethe, (Mill), Freud, Fromm, Peterson, and Haidt, it should be possible to distill a handy version of that stuff. My guess (or my aim) would be that Switzerland could be used as an illustration or a role model to distill what’s necessary to scale the better Western traditions up.  

    The Swiss public sphere is also interesting with regard to the media. Lots of Swiss public discourse and media is just excellent – and yes public broadcasting too.

    Mutations are scary but – not least because they hint at one of Heidegger’s basic insights: That human existence is grounded in insecurity. I tend to rater muse about this existential truth at times than to give in to fear too readily. – One of the nobler tasks of philosophy and religion is to calm us down – together (I think that this public aspect of both is what makes them really precious and – what makes them work too).
    If I could name just three things about Switzerland, I’s come up with: 1) The role of the farmers – well respected and well treated (mostly conservative) people, politically well represented. 2) The number of IQ 85-95 kids, that do learn something useful at school (no matter what their background is) – and the absolutely astonishing number of them, that get a job that allows them to make a living. 3) The industriousness of such a high percentile of the Swiss. OK No. 4: The beauty of this land (and it is not just natural).  

    (PS
    Just in case you’d like to send me an email you’d be welcome: my name in one word at gmxDOTde)

  306. MEH 0910 says:

  307. @Wizard of Oz

    I was seeking to understand what Godfree Roberts was saying by reference to something he might contrast it to.

    Yes, but you were also imposing it on him to provide the “something” to compare it to. And in light of your offhand dismissal of Iris’ thoughtful comment (which he quoted), and the fact that you could’ve easily done your own literature research on the subject if it was actually a topic of interest to you (there are over 135,000 covid-19-related mostly-full-text papers available on pubmed alone), it appeared that you were asking for purposes of disputation, not enlightenment.

    IOW it appeared that you were asking him to supply you with information that you could use to try to cast doubt on what he said.

    If you had asked him to elaborate on how he arrived at the death doubling time, or something like that, I wouldn’t have said anything.

  308. @That Would Be Telling

    if you really believed this propaganda you’d stop drinking water, it after all has a lethal dose 50% of less than 10 liters if drunk all at once.

    A well-known example of death from water intoxication:

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=water+drinking+contest+radio&ia=web

  309. Here’s the answer that stretching my standards for use of time allows.

    “easily done your own literature search” Cp. “135,000,… mostly full text papers” 🤣

    Your second last par describes an important part of cross-examination which purported witnesses of fact and of expert opinion alike are properly subjected to.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  310. utu says:
    @Dieter Kief

    ” they publicly talked/debated themselves out of a religious civil war when Protestantism grew stronger and put a threat to the Swiss Catholics. “ Debates with knife on your throat. Catholics were purged and forced to convert and Catholic churches were taken over. Reformation in Switzerland like every where else was a looting operation of Church properties. In some places like Chur the seat of Bishop was turned into a ghetto and held closed for over 300 years. It was Napoleon who liberated and emancipated Catholics in Switzerland. Napoleon also forced the Swiss to emancipate Jews which however after Napoleon left the Swiss reverted to old ways. Catholics still feel discriminated in Switzerland when it comes of getting local government and administration positions.

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  311. @Bardon Kaldian

    …even Russia is a nation state

    lolwut? The Russian Empire was not a nation state; the Soviet Empire was not a nation state; and the current year’s smaller Russian Empire is still not a nation state.

    A decent link on the subject: https://www.quora.com/Is-Russia-a-nation-state

    The others have historically been nation states, but are currently undergoing the process of (((deconstruction))) into so-called “multicultural” or “poly-ethnic” polities — i.e. empires. Germany, as the #1 target of toxic semitism, has “advanced” farther along this path than the others, of course.

    Perhaps it would be helpful to have Chucky Schumer review the definition of “nation” for you:

    “In Israel, and America, the jewish nation lives — now, and forever!”

    Can’t have a nation state without a nation.

  312. @Wizard of Oz

    Here’s the answer that stretching my standards for use of time allows.

    “easily done your own literature search” Cp. “135,000,… mostly full text papers”

    Well presumably you would use key words to narrow down the search results and get the kind of information you’re seeking.

    Your second last par describes an important part of cross-examination which purported witnesses of fact and of expert opinion alike are properly subjected to.

    So apparently I was correct in assuming that enlightenment through polite and honest discussion wasn’t the objective.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  313. @utu

    Catholics were purged and forced to convert and Catholic churches were taken over. Reformation in Switzerland like everywhere else was a looting operation of Church properties.

    The arising Protestantism caused a fight, no doubt. But it did not cause an utterly destructive civil war like it did north of the Swiss Border. This 30-Year cost the lives of a third of the people in Germany and just a tiny fraction of that in Switzerland. That is the crucial distinction, methinks.

  314. MEH 0910 says:
    @mapman

    It almost certainly was shoddy a vaccine trial in China. The virus was significantly attenuated and it was detected simultaneously in several regions.

    Yes, I’m seeing something similar in the Donald G. McNeil Jr. piece:

    https://donaldgmcneiljr1954.medium.com/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-lab-leak-theory-f4f88446b04d

    Most leaks infect or kill just a few people before they are stopped by isolation and/or vaccination. But not all: scientists now believe that the H1N1 seasonal flu that killed thousands every year from 1977 to 2009 was influenza research gone feral. The strain first appeared in eastern Russia in 1977 and its genes were initially identical to a 1950 strain; that could have happened only if it had been in a freezer for 27 years. It also initially behaved as if it had been deliberately attenuated, or weakened. So scientists suspect it was a Russian effort to make a vaccine against a possible return of the 1918 flu. And then, they theorize, the vaccine virus, insufficiently weakened, began spreading.

  315. MEH 0910 says:

  316. Alfred says:
    @Harold Smith

    And if they keep getting away with crimes like 9/11 and (most likely) Covid-19, which are always blamed on the enemy du jour, what’s next for the sheeple, maybe a nuke in your home town blamed on Iran? We’re dealing with criminally insane madmen here whose lies need to be vigorously challenged.

    If you were living in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Yemen and Syria, you would have a different perspective.

    IMHO, it is important for you today to know that the fake PCR test might be putting harmful items next to your brain. That way, you can protect yourself. After 9/11, if you were a Libyan, you would have done yourself a big favour by taking a boat to Europe. Knowing that the Israelis and the Deep State did it would have been of little practical utility.

    Information about who did it is of less importance to you today. It is clearly a combined effort – the US Deep State plus their Chinese colleagues. Confounding countries with factions is not helpful.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  317. @Dieter Kief

    Here’s a young man diving into this realm just recently:

    Interesting piece. Thanks.

    …people have a mechanism in their minds. It stops them from saying something that could lower their status, even if it’s true. And it propels them to say something that could increase their status, even if it’s false.

    Though I would say that highly-educated people tend to view any expression of heretical beliefs, not merely as a signal of low status, but an indicator of “stupidity” and “moral badness”as well. In this context, these three concepts seem to be inextricably linked in the minds of many. The typical reaction is a mixture of horror, disdain, self-satisfaction, and the impulse to immediately signal their own high status/ intelligence/ moral “goodness” by immediately attacking those views — and those expressing them — in the strongest terms possible. This impulse seems to be stronger in those who are more marginal in the first two areas themselves [status strivers and midwits], and in public settings. And in the less autistic, of course…

    Sometimes, local norms can push against this tendency.

    But in the age of ever-present mass media, heavily-moderated social media, and social atomization… what “local norms” are there? Mass media and the academia/ NGO/ Human Resources complex set the social norms.

    …the Canadian anthropologist Jerome Barkow posits that people across the world view media figures as more prestigious than respected members of their local communities.

    Sure — in terms of long term molding of culture/ society, entertainment media shows you how “high status” people behave and what they believe; on a shorter time scale, “news” media tells you what narratives “high status” people are focused on, and how to support/ defend them.

    If you have any kind of prominence, you unavoidably become a model that others, including children, are more likely to emulate.

    See “social media influencers.”

    Man is not really a rational animal, but a rationalizing one. The traditional structure of human communities is supported/ maintained by this cognitive tendency — that mass media hacks.

    • Agree: Ever Becoming
  318. @Harold Smith

    There is nothing in cross examination that, by its very nature, precludes polite and honest discussion. Indeed, asking the question which makes the person in error think of the right answer may be the polite way of getting a point over.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  319. @Wizard of Oz

    There is nothing in cross examination that, by its very nature, precludes polite and honest discussion. Indeed, asking the question which makes the person in error think of the right answer may be the polite way of getting a point over.

    Despite the more benign spin you tried to put on it in your comment #289, wherein you said: “I was seeking to understand what Godfree Roberts was saying by reference to something he might contrast it to,” you keep comparing your exchange with him to a “cross examination.” And AFAIK a cross examination is a feature of an adversarial legal process.

    So if the instant discussion is something akin to an adversary process then what you’re apparently trying to do is to “put him on the stand” and do a “fishing expedition” to try to get him to say something you can use against him, right? In which case it’s clear that you’re not interested in whether he’s right or wrong, you’re not interested in the information he’s already presented, and you apparently don’t even have any personal interest in the subject matter (beyond trying to prove him wrong regardless of the merits of his position).

    So I object to your fishing expedition and suggest that if you’re determined to prove him wrong that you do some research of your own, whereupon you can confront him with your compelling findings to the contrary.

    Fishing Expedition
    Primary tabs
    Definition from Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary
    Legal grasping at straws; the use of pretrial investigation discovery or witness questioning in an unfocused attempt to uncover damaging evidence to be used against an adversary.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fishing_expedition

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  320. @Achmed E. Newman

    Are there any good prepping forums you would recommend, Achmed? I think we all need to start familiarising ourselves with this subject.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  321. @Harold Smith

    Thanks for trying. Indeed thanks for trying to improve my manners. But you miss the subtleties.

    • Replies: @Harold Smith
  322. @Mike Enoch Powell

    It’s been too long since I used to read a few of them, Mike. I see that James Wesley Rawles’ Survival Blog is still up and running. I used to read it, and then the Zerohedge commenters used to have some very good tips, financial as well as more down-to-earth off-the-grid stuff. However, that was almost 10 years ago. ZH has gone downhill, IMO, along with its commenting system – usability alone is bad now.

    Speaking of usability, that’s why I keep bringing up a prepper columnist here, because this is my all-time favorite commenting format/system. I suppose this should be under one of the “Bugs & Suggestions” posts.

  323. @Alfred

    And if they keep getting away with crimes like 9/11 and (most likely) Covid-19, which are always blamed on the enemy du jour, what’s next for the sheeple, maybe a nuke in your home town blamed on Iran? We’re dealing with criminally insane madmen here whose lies need to be vigorously challenged.

    If you were living in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Yemen and Syria, you would have a different perspective.

    Why do you say that? By now the perspective among any reasonable people paying attention from anywhere in the world (especially those in the recent victim states) would likely be very similar: the Satanic U.S. “government” (and by extension, those who enable and/or cooperate with it) are the deadly implacable enemy of all life on earth. I mentioned the sheeple (in the U.S.) not as an exclusive example but because that’s the group that you were presumably referring to.

    Information about who did it is of less importance to you today.

    I vehemently disagree; the situation being what it is, it’s more important than ever that the whole world knows who’s doing these things (and accordingly appreciates the threat posed by the Satanists). And as usual, the U.S. “government” with its over-the-top-hysterical reaction to China’s counter-accusations, its conspicuous stonewalling and its unconscionable effort to disparage and discourage the use of certain apparently efficacious drugs and nutritional supplements, for example, basically implicates itself.

    It is clearly a combined effort – the US Deep State plus their Chinese colleagues.

    No it’s not “clearly a combined effort”; that seems like some kind of limited-hangout propaganda point. The barely asserted claim that China is somehow responsible for Covid-19 has about as much credibility as the “Assad gassed his own people” claim.

    Confounding countries with factions is not helpful.

    Huh?

  324. @Wizard of Oz

    Thanks for trying.

    Well thanks for thanking me, but as we see, all I can do unfortunately is to lead you to the water; I can’t make you drink.

  325. @Dieter Kief

    Ich würde Ihnen sehr gern schreiben, danke schon.

    Allow me time to come back on other points. First must I say it occurred to me that Switzerland and Sweden have one thing in common— that they were both neutral in WW2. I think only possible because both reside in 1. geopolitically advantageous locations, 2. and have strong martial traditions (which translates to strong counter-pandemic performance)

    The Swiss were not able to resist Bonaparte’s Franzoseneinfall but has stayed out of all other conflicts since Bicocca (1522).

    But in looking this up, it appears that in 1940, the Swiss had prepared for possibility that Germans would outflank the Maginot Line from the south.
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Schweiz_w%C3%A4hrend_des_Westfeldzuges

    They prepared for neutrality violation by either/both the French and Germans at the highlands of Limmat Line,

    View post on imgur.com


    But ultimately the plan was to cooperate with the French in case of a German invasion
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man%C3%B6ver_H

    It was therefore – in partial violation of the law of neutrality – based on a secret agreement with the French army command under the code name Plan H, which provided for French assistance in the event of a German invasion.

    You can even see in the disposition map for Westfeldzug that there was a French „Swiss Group“ corp-size unit standing by near Basel

    View post on imgur.com

    So must I say Swiss neutrality is quite contingent on geography…Its much harder for foreign armies to ravage the Alps than the North German Plains or Central Plains

    they brought their weapons with them to their public deliberations in the Landstände

    Indeed.

    the greatest triumph in history of “a well regulated Militia,” and the proof of infantry with a new weapon, the pike, against the Mediaeval levy of cavalry.

    https://friesian.com/francia.htm#swiss

    But must be hard with 4 official languages (most those I meet can speak no more than 2)

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
  326. T.Rebon says:
    @Wayne Lusvardi

    No real “virus” was necessary, just fomented panic, hysteria and lockdowns to the “normal” seasonal flu

    Agree, there is no outcome different to that.`The normal flu was amplified by social media and the press. A press that is useless today and tries everything – really everything – to get some attention for some lousy clicks that are worth less and less. And social media seems to me like a house full of loonies.

    After that evolves, politics, online warehouse owners that owns some newspapers vaccination maniacs who are not able to create stable software, which was their profession, and a lot of other parts of the imo social negative selection saw a chance. So they jumped on the bandwagon.

    Unfortunately there is neither a virus from a lab nor a plan or world conspiracy (that would need intelligence far from the abilities of the money makers). It’s only and always the same bullshit as ever. But they can’t get out of the story without looking like the idiots they are.

    I see only one prominent man a little apart from this caravan. Mr. Musk, who seems to me very careful not to say what he really thinks.

  327. @Harold Smith

    Paraphrasing Dorothy Parker-‘You can lead a whore to culture, but you can’t make him think’.

  328. @Erebus

    You caught that That would be Telling troll right there Erebrus. I see he’s scurried off, the coward.

  329. @Achmed E. Newman

    Look-an actual Sinophobic TROLL accusing others of being a troll, because he can’t stand the truth

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  330. @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms

    WW II was an enormous threat to the mentalities of those who participated in it and the fact, that both countries who did make at first sight risky decisions which turned out to be right later on (I think they did turn out right quite clearly) had been touched only lightly by WW I I is indeed remarkable.
    In order be able to make such at first sight rather risky decisions, which were loathed by the elites of the vast majority of the surrounding countries, it might have indeed helped to have done something alike before (=not taking part in WW II – and in the case of Switzerland: Not taking part in the 30-Year War as well…). I think there are other reasons for this civil bravery here too, which are neighbored but not quite the same as those I have hinted at – to make that explicit: You need a collective trust (= precious social capital), and lots of that, to act like the Swiss and the Swedes did.

    Then there is one more aspect: The nature (=clear and down-to-earth characters) and the role of the experts Beda M. Stadler in Switzerland and that of Johan Giesecke and Anders Tegnell in Sweden*****. – To make this point very short: These were in my eyes, respected leaders, who therefore got through with their arguments.

    ***** compare them to Anthony Fauci and Neil Ferguson and Christoph Drosten, and you have a very important part of the whole picture. Blogger Hail-to-You did make this point very early on, that Ferguson and Fauci are rather dubious characters – as is Drosten (Fromm, again: He coined the term market-characters for such men, meaning they are driven not leats by manipulative impulses).

  331. MEH 0910 says:


    [MORE]

  332. @Mulga Mumblebrain

    I didn’t accuse Godfree Roberts of being a troll. I said he just consistently lies about Chinese history.

    • Replies: @Mulga Mumblebrain
  333. @James N. Kennett

    Your local hospital’s microbiology department is a Level 2 lab. I find it difficult to believe that something known to be more dangerous than TB, which is done in Level 3, would knowingly be done in a Level 3 lab.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
  334. MEH 0910 says:
    @Curmudgeon

    https://donaldgmcneiljr1954.medium.com/how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-lab-leak-theory-f4f88446b04d

    I spoke about Nick’s article last week with Dr. W. Ian Lipkin, the renowned Columbia University virus hunter who was one of the five co-authors on the seminal “proximal origin” paper.

    He favored a natural origin theory, he said, in part because he had assumed that all the Wuhan Institute’s 2019 work with SARS-like viruses had been done in its top-level BSL-4 lab, which was cleared to operate in 2017. (State Department cables from 2018 raised questions about how well-run the lab was.)

    But later he learned of studies with Dr. Shi’s name on them showing that work he considers dangerous had been done in level BSL-2 labs, which he considers highly porous to leaks, not just in 2016, but in 2020.

    “That’s screwed up,” he said. “It shouldn’t have happened. People should not be looking at bat viruses in BSL-2 labs. My view has changed.”

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  335. @Achmed E. Newman

    I’ve not seen a single ‘lie’ from him. Please explain.

  336. @MEH 0910

    But later he learned of studies with Dr. Shi’s name on them showing that work he considers dangerous had been done in level BSL-2 labs,

    Studies are done in hospital labs all the time. Infectious disease departments in hospitals do have hospital lab staff do studies. My wife and a co-worker presented, during an American Society for Microbiology Conference, a “poster” on a study of C. difficile Toxin done in their lab. “Studies with his name” on it means nothing. What the studies were, is.
    Are there “leaks” in Level 2 labs? Sure. People that are sloppy get infected with things like meningitis on occasion. Some have died. All work done in a hospital microbiology or virology lab is potentially dangerous, because they don’t know what they are dealing with. In Level 3 and 4 labs, they almost always, do. What Lipkin considers dangerous, may not be the consensus of others. That happens a lot in medicine.

  337. @Trevor

    Or lab workers did as they were ordered to do.

  338. MEH 0910 says:

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
  339. MEH 0910 says:
    @MEH 0910

  340. MEH 0910 says:

  341. MEH 0910 says:

  342. @Ron Unz

    Godfree is wrong about the virus beginning in 2015, but right about the virus having infected between 4-6 million Americans by December 2019.

    The claim of 4-6 million cases comes from this study about covid-19 antibodies:
    https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1785/6012472

    When you calculate the percentage of the sample population that has antibodies and apply it to the whole population as done in this video…

    … you get between 4 to 6 million infected people.

    And if you reverse calculate from there the date of first infection case as done in this video…

    …the first USA case is somewhere in mid-August 2019. Which is just after Fort Detrick closes and around the same time of the first EVALI deaths and other strange pneumonia cases reported around Fort Detrick.

    Nothing solid about the conspiracy theory of Fort Detrick and EVALI, but the numbers don’t lie.

  343. @Godfree Roberts

    His calculations of your same study have put the first case in mid-August 2019 — not 2015.
    👇

  344. SafeNow says:

    Air China flight 605 plowed into the water landing at Hong Kong. In the cockpit were two veterans of the Chinese Air force, They decided to make the landing despite wind shear, wind gusts, and storms.
    Minutes before, a British Airways pilot refused to make his landing, and diverted. Let’s risk it, vs. better safe than sorry. I don’t know if one can extrapolate to the Wuhan lab, but maybe it’s not too far a reach — it’s like a controlled experiment, after all.

  345. There is no virus. Someone just “marketed” the idea that a “novel virus” had occured in our “biosphere”, fully knowing that with a clever approach and after a very thorough analises of the factors that would facilitate the acceptance of such an idea it would be doable.

    These actors, whoever they are(I think it is China) realized that many people die from what originally is “just” the regular flu. If you manage to convince people that the reason they get seriously ill is not just severe underlying medical conditions but most of all a mysterious, highly contagious, novel virus you have laid the groundwork for a PANdemIC!

    [MORE]

    These people discovered that most people have high levels of a certain protein and then they tweaked the only known test to detect this virus to give a positive result when it detected this protein. The result is that approx. 97 percent of the population has a high level of this protein and therefore will test positive.

    After the vaccinations started the CDC very timely changed the guidelines for how to test for the virus, resulting in far less positive results.

    They also predicted that big pharma would jump on the idea about a globally spreading deadly virus, that needed a swiftly produced vaccine. Any doubts and anomalies about this virus would quickly be silenced by them. And they would use their considerable resources to convince people about the existens and lethality of the virus.

    They also predicted that many governments would seize the opportunity to enforce strict control over its citizens in the name of protecting them.

    They also predicted that many major corporations would use this as an excuse to lower costs and ask for aid due to the hardships caused by the virus.

    All in all, these people realized that the time was ripe for something like this, all the planets aligned. They knew that many people were dying from various diseases and medical conditions that could be derived from an initial respiratory illness.

    Given the poor health of the population in most countries(except Norway!)and the effect all the fear mongering and scare tactics the media happily would engange in would have on people they knew that once this notion about a worldwide, fast spreading, highly contagious and higly lethal disease got going it would just accelerate and not possible to stop.

    The media were quick to “get onboard” and happy to have a new and interesting excuse for their lengthy commercials. The media have done more than anyone else to make people accept this entire scam.

    Beacuse it is a scam. There is no virus. China was fairly quick to produce a genome for the virus but how do we know that genome is real, as far as I can tell nobody has ever seen the actual virus.

    I don’t have an answer to WHY they did it. I can speculate but I will not bore you with my guesses. I leave that to others.

  346. MEH 0910 says:

  347. MEH 0910 says:


    [MORE]

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