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United States of Antifa Converging On Peoples Republic of China?
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Last week marked the third anniversary of the ambushing of the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville VA. The organizers of that rally—a lawful, peaceful demonstration for which the organizers had obtained a permit—were attacked by the anarchist mob, who had no intention of being lawful or peaceful and no permit. The city police, under political direction, abdicated their duty to keep order, and mayhem ensued.

VDARE.com, has run some illuminating articles by Unite the Right participants and organizers. It’s clear from those accounts that, in the eloquent words of that participant, August 12th 2017 was,

… a dress rehearsal for the anarcho-tyrannical nation-wide insurrection now taking place: Antifa violence; official complicity; police paralysis (unless arresting anyone trying to resist); all protected by tightly controlled Narrative of Legacy Media lies … It looks like Charlottesville 2017 was the beginning of a successful Communist coup against America.

The events of 2020 have made the accuracy of this analysis all too clear. Quite large parts of the U.S.A. are effectively under the control of Antifa today. I’m not just talking about the streets of our big old cities, where Antifa rule is plain to see. The takeover has been institutional. The judiciary, the academy, the media and the social media, the big corporations—all are dancing to the Antifa tune.

The coronavirus pandemic has made things easier for the insurrectionists, at least on the judicial front. “We can’t have proper court proceedings with social distancing!” squeal the DAs and prosecutors, as they pocket the big fat envelopes full of cash from George Soros. “Case dismissed!”

And then: “Jails are breeding grounds for the virus,” they tell us. “Gotta let prisoners go free!”

Of course, if you have the impertinence to stand and fight when Antifa come round to break your windows, you’ll be cuffed, tried, convicted, sentenced, and jailed before you can say “due process.”

But wait: Don’t we have a National Conservative in the White House? Doesn’t he have authority over the Justice Department, to right some of these injustices? Doesn’t he have a Secretary of Education to address the totalitarian CultMarx dominance in our universities? A Commerce Secretary to rein in the power of the tech monopolies?

If the Tsar only knew!

Looking back over my own commentaries of three years ago, my eye was caught by a segment in my December 22nd podcast of that year. In that segment I mulled over the theories of convergence that had some currency in the early 1960s—convergence, that is, between American capitalism, as then was, and Soviet communism, as then was. I said:

The rough idea was that the USSR would allow more and more private-sector activity while government power in the West would expand, leading eventually to a situation is which the two systems were indistinguishable. They’d have converged to a common political-economic mean.

Those ideas weren’t new in the early 1960s, of course. James Burnham had aired them twenty years before in his book The Managerial Revolution, which so fascinated George Orwell.

What set me pondering these things was last week’s news items about the ChiCom crackdown on Hong Kong, particularly the arrest of newspaper publisher and democracy advocate Jimmy Lai. [Hong Kong Arrests Jimmy Lai, Media Mogul, Under National Security Law, by Austin Ramzy and Tiffany May, NY Times, August 10, 2020].

This was of course a deplorable business, cops taking Mr. Lai away in handcuffs and looting his offices. Several other people were likewise arrested, including one of Jimmy Lai’s sons, who has no connection with the newspaper business.

After forty hours in custody, though, Jimmy Lai was released on $65,000 bail. He’s at home now, and has been giving interviews to the media. [Hong Kong media tycoon says ‘the fight has to go on’ after ‘symbolic’ arrest under new law, by Will Ripley and Jenni Marsh, CNN Business, August 14, 2020]

I was struck by the lightness of touch there. In Mao Tse-tung’s China, Jimmy Lai would just have disappeared—been given twenty-five years in a camp, or just shot out of hand.

There are of course some restraining circumstances to be noted. Hong Kong is still a key hub for China’s business with the rest of the world. To keep up appearances, the ChiComs don’t want to thoroughly mainlandize the place, to go full totalitarian on it all at once. They want to keep up a decent facade of legality while shutting down dissent one voice at a time.

Jimmy Lai could never have published his newspaper in the mainland, and mainland dissidents are treated way more harshly than he has been.

Also acting as a restraint on the natural brutishness of ChiCom rule has been their preoccupation with other problems: the coronavirus pandemic; the loss of international face arising therefrom, with consequent trade issues [China’s Huawei, ZTE Set To Be Shut Out of India’s 5G Trials, Bloomberg Business, August 13, 2020]; the severe floods that have been afflicting their country; possibly some insecurities at the top, with Xi Jinping trying to stay on his feet against rivals in the apparatus.

All things considered, though, today’s China is not your father’s totalitarianism. Visiting China last year, I found the table-talk among ordinary citizens way more open and relaxed than it was in the early 1980s.

That’s where the theory of convergence came back to me. China is heading into totalitarianism lite from one side; perhaps we’re heading to the same destination from the other side.

The ChiComs have eased up on the pettier kinds of social control while continuing to punish open dissent, and also while quietly setting up a panopticon of data on what citizens are saying, doing, earning, and buying.

Meanwhile we are firming up on those lesser social controls—on what may be said and done in private exchanges, for example between bird-watchers and dog-walkers—while tightening the screws on open dissent.

We’re not as far along the road to a panopticon yet, but the trend is in that direction. Not much happens in public nowadays that isn’t recorded by security cameras or someone’s smartphone.

ORDER IT NOW

And there are some features of the modern world that work against hard totalitarianism. A few days ago there came out those video clips of Chinese Uighurs handcuffed and blindfolded, being herded into cattle wagons. Apparently they were leaked by someone with access to the drone footage.

I watched them with a friend. He observed that if we’d had that kind of footage of Stalin’s slave-labor camps eighty years ago, it would have been harder for Soviet sympathizers to deny the reality of communism.

The coronavirus pandemic has also been a setback for the panopticon project, which relies heavily on facial recognition software.

What I hear from people working in this field is that—-amazingly, it seems to me—facial recognition can work with people wearing masks … but only in small populations. So if you have, say, a company workforce of five thousand people, all wearing masks, the software can tell you which employee you’re looking at. With populations bigger than a few thousand, though, a given image of one masked individual can return multiple matches.

Possibly technology will conquer these issues and all others that limit state power, pulling us back to Nineteen Eighty-Four-style “hard” totalitarianism. I think a convergence to “soft” totalitarianism—totalitarianism Lite—is more probable, though.

It used to be a standard classroom exercise for high-school seniors to read both Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four and Huxley’s Brave New World, then write an essay on which was the more probable future.

The way things are now trending, both in China and the U.S.A., we shall end up with something of both dystopias: the nihilistic all-wants-supplied hedonism of Huxley’s joined to Orwell’s managerial panopticon.

We could do worse, I guess; but I shall mourn the loss of our old liberties.

(Republished from VDare by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Anon[191] • Disclaimer says:

    “It used to be a standard classroom exercise for high-school seniors to read both Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four and Huxley’s Brave New World, then write an essay on which was the more probable future.”

    Getting through and comprehending either of those books would be a high achievement exercise for most American college graduates today.

  2. In Mao Tse-tung’s China, Jimmy Lai would just have disappeared—been given twenty-five years in a camp, or just shot out of hand

    .

    What a load of horse puckey.

    The duration, scale, and savagery of Japanese war crimes in China had aroused international outrage and demands for vengeance rose from a million throats, yet Mao forbade[1] retribution.

    He commuted[2] the death sentences of all but forty-six Japanese war criminals, pardoned and repatriated a million occupying troops, dissuaded Japan’s puppet Chinese emperor, Pu Yi, from committing suicide, edited his memoirs, and found the remorseful man a wife.

    His instructions[3] for re-establishing order were clear, “What harm is there in not executing people? Those amenable to labour reform should go and do labour reform so that rubbish can be transformed into something useful. Remember, people’s heads are not like leeks. When you cut them off, they won’t grow again. If you cut off a head wrongly there is no way of rectifying the mistake even if you want to”.

    William Sewell, a Christian missionary in China, wrote[4]:

    We knew from the papers that, in some parts of China where Land Reform had already taken place, there had been angry scenes and landlords had been beaten to death by the people or had killed themselves in fear. The Government realized that they had greatly underestimated the passions of the people when they were aroused; but now the cadres[5] were wiser and were present to see that matters did not get out of control. After the people had spoken, the landlords were either handed over to the police for trial or allowed to remain free, according to circumstance. Only those proven responsible for the death of a tenant combined with rape or for several deaths were legally liable for the death penalty.


    [1] Collected Works of Mao Tse-Tung (1917-1949), Volumes 1-2 Paperback – January 1, 1978
    by JOINT PUBLICATIONS RESEARCH SERVICE ARLINGTON VA
    [2] Collected Works of Mao Tse-Tung (1917-1949), Volumes 1-2 Paperback – January 1, 1978
    by JOINT PUBLICATIONS RESEARCH SERVICE ARLINGTON VA
    [3] Chairman Mao Talks To The People: Talks and Letters: 1956-1971 (The Pantheon Asia Library)
    [4] I stayed in China, – by William G Sewell 1966
    [5] Cadre: a small group of people specially trained for a particular purpose or profession: ‘a small cadre of scientists.’

  3. From my experience with/in China that only starts about 15 years ago, but goes through right now with my China sources, I would differ with you slightly on the path they are taking. As Peak Stupidity discussed in Dashed high hopes for ChinaPart 1 and Part 2, the trends looked so good in 2010 even. Yes, it’s the “panopticon” now, as you call it. I really thought the “wild, wild, East” of that time would surpass the US in freedom by now. Things have gone back the other (wrong) way already.

    You didn’t mention the new fake-COVID-crisis-induced health scores on the ubiquitous smart phones nearly everyone has there, with their convenient Green/Yellow/Red color indications. Go to Zhejiang now, which must have a few Kung Flu cases, and your green turns to yellow. You must quarantine for 2 weeks before either returning into the green or going into the red. This, and the cashless Mark-o-the-Beast society well in progress is some bad juju.

    Maybe most Americans, especially the young ones, value convenience over that old relic concept of privacy, but older Americans still understand the encroachment on freedom this stuff entails. In China, there is no history of anyone giving a damn about that. Once the panopticon is more complete, a new Communist clampdown can occur on a whim. Advantage, America.

    • Disagree: GomezAdddams
  4. Jake says:

    The old liberties are product of Christendom. As we have moved ever more fully into a post-Christian world we lose ever more of the old liberties.

    It is either Christ and Christendom or Chaos. And in this case, Chaos means nations being scattered to the winds, culturally and genetically.

    The sun never sets on the Anglo-Zionist Empire, which ends not with a bang but with a whimper.

    • Agree: G J T
    • Replies: @Observator
    , @showmethereal
  5. You can defeat the face-recognition crap in various ways. With the masks on, it’s just easier. Yes, wear the mask if you are up to something, but also make a few scripto marks on your face, put on a bandaid where you may have cut yourself shaving (your eyebrows?), and then walk with a hex nut or something in your shoe to change your gait. When they are running after you, you can do a Usual Suspects Verbil move and straighten it out.

    Here’s some more of the latest news, Mr. D. The Chinese government is invalidating lots of people’s passports, apparently trying to limit the flow of dollars outbound. It’s not purportedly about the average tourist, discussed in The Ugly Chinaman, though I think they are being affected too. It’s supposed to be about the government officials that abscond with bribe money and buy those houses in the West Coast cities. It’s too bad, as the Chinese middle class people have been just getting used to being able to travel the world.

    Things have really reverted, as I’m told there is a black market right now for US cash.

  6. SafeNow says:

    Of course ChiCom is to journalist Jimmy Lai as Kamala Harris was to journalist David Daleiden. But I am not writing to talk about Kamala; I already posted elsewhere Emily Dickinson‘s poem, “Snake.” I write to question the arrival of a Brave New World ethos of everyone happily employed according to his abilities. Ask a White fellow who aced the firefighter application process, but didn’t get the job, whether he thinks we are headed in that direction. The ascendancy of anti-meritocracy, coupled with the left’s importing tens of millions of political reinforcements, have perhaps created a situation that defies historical or literary comparison.

    Regarding mourning. I mourn not merely loss of liberties; I am ancient, and mourn the impending further loss of the culture I grew up in.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  7. This guy sounds like alex jones dismissing antifa as terrorists but wailing on the “chicoms” for clamping down on their fifth column elements.

    The reason that the chinese are totalitarian is because of your hostile american propaganda that is being used to attempt a color revolution in china

    • Agree: dfordoom, Daemon, acementhead
  8. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:

    A while back, several commnters including Mr. Unz noted Mr. Derbyshire’s fealty to Washington and over-the-top animosity for the government of China. I was reminded of that when I read in this column:

    A few days ago there came out those video clips of Chinese Uighurs handcuffed and blindfolded, being herded into cattle wagons. Apparently they were leaked by someone with access to the drone footage.

    I watched them with a friend. He observed that if we’d had that kind of footage of Stalin’s slave-labor camps eighty years ago, it would have been harder for Soviet sympathizers to deny the reality of communism.

    The first link (“those video clips”) is what Mr. Derbyshire and his friend apparently watched on CNN.
    I have no direct knowledge of what’s going on in China, but I can’t imagine a less credible source.

    There’s a more nuanced discussion of the Uighur issue in and under Patrick Cockburn’s August 7 “The Rise of Nationalism Has Led to Increased Oppression of Minorities,” including the role of Uncle Sam in stirring stuff up there, as well as in Hong Kong. If the Exceptional! Mr. Derbyshire could even entertain such thoughts, would he dare share them?

  9. Miro23 says:

    We could do worse, I guess; but I shall mourn the loss of our old liberties.

    Another great article from Derb. The historical framework gives a good understanding of the idea that factions in society are always engaged in a sort of low level civil war.

    The Communist Party of China has grown enormously in power through policies of economic freedom and openness to world trade + national development . They grow in power because their country grows in power – although their power relative to the public simultaneously declines through those same policies of economic freedom.

    In contrast, the democratic United States has declined greatly in power since the 1950’s through policies of corporate outsourcing, neglecting the formation of human capital and finacialization rather than industrialization (manufacturing). Only the US elite grows in power, since these policies allow them to capture the gains while dumping the losses on the public. Their power relative to the public grows through those same policies of economic repression.

    Result, that the Chinese public are on a rising gradient of economic freedom* and freedom of speech while the American public are on a declining gradient of economic freedom and freedom of speech and may well have already passed the US/Chinese intersection point.

    * Economic freedom in a general sense as in access to quality education and healthcare at reasonable cost. and development of the national industrial base to provide large scale quality employment .

  10. There’s something to Mr Derb’s “convergence” of “democratic & “communist” versions of totalitarianism — if one allows that there aren’t too many genuine communist States left – N-Korea. China is communist in only the sense of being a one party State — otherwise its a Capitalist State with socialist elements. Certainly the West is aggressively assuming ever more totalitarian features & practices.
    However, as with many writers of a conservative bent, Mr D continues to fall into inaccuracies — errors so common now as to be hardly in need of correction.
    Firstly, Derb’ goes with the antifa = communism shtick. “It looks like Charlottesville 2017 was the beginning of a successful Communist coup against America.” Communist Coup – LOL ! As we all know antifa are an almost formless mob (blob ?), united by nothing more than social justice jargon & a “membership” heavily drawn from the lumpen proletariat. Vandalism & looting are good signs we are dealing with — at best – useful idiots. More likely, an assorted ragbag of apolitical scumbags out for cheap thrills & cheap larceny.
    Then its the usual antifa hyperbole: “The judiciary, the academy, the media and the social media, the big corporations—all are dancing to the Antifa tune”. They may all be dancing to the same tune, but its not antifa playing the music — as Derb’ admits: “… the DAs and prosecutors [“squeal”], as they pocket the big fat envelopes full of cash from George Soros. “Case dismissed!””.
    And there we have it: as with the Arab Spring & most so-called “color revolutions” we have the appearance of a spontaneous Mob, behind which lurk much larger players, players with deep pockets & long considered strategies & a willingness to use violence.
    Indeed, we maybe seeing this all play out again now in Belarus.

  11. Svevlad says:

    Eh, it never gets to that point. Society always collapses beforehand

  12. USA has evolved from Capitalism to Cronyism. 50% lower inceme Americans wages have fallen over the past 30 years whereas China has lifted 750 million from poverty. Covid-19—-fast reponse – Lockdown Whuan Spring Festival and then – entire counry Result 84,827 infections and 4,634 fatalities wheras it is still not proven the origin of Covid -19 —–eevoling over time and 3 earlier outbreaks of weaker variant years 1948-1969 and 1989. NOT made in a lab but the intermediary host is perhaps not pangelin but mink? Science will make the call. However, there is a total disdain and contmpt for science in USA with a Reality TV man presenting cases that Covid-19 is like the flu and will disappear–like a miracle. Wear a mask and coical distaning are dictatorial. Howver the stats now show 5, 357,390 infected and 169,432 needless deaths? Cuba—-3,229 and 89 – ???

    • Replies: @VinnyVette
    , @RadicalCenter
  13. We’re not as far along the road to a panopticon yet ….

    Three words: Utah Data Centre.

  14. @Jake

    Christianity provides the ethical rationale for the totalitarian state. The author of Matthew in 5:28 attributes these words to Jesus, “But I say to you, that whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.” Since Jesus explicitly states that thinking about committing a sin is the same thing as actually doing it, His established church naturally usurps the state’s rightful obligation to control expressions of antisocial behavior and legitimizes, even demands, that citizens’ thinking be regulated. Institutional Christianity has always prospered as the compliance assurance arm of absolute state power.

    It was not accidental that our own United States adopted the first western government in some fourteen centuries, founded, as John Adams put it, “on the natural authority of the people alone, without pretence to miracle or mystery,” that refused to establish Christianity as its official state religion.

  15. High School Seniors?
    We read 1984 and Brave New World in Ninth Grade!

    • Agree: omegabooks
  16. @Godfree Roberts

    The greatest political satirist of this era Dogflea Lolbelts.

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
  17. @Achmed E. Newman

    You’re trying to apply Roman, individualist values to a Confucian, collective culture.

    Call it cultural imperialism or just plain ignorance, but it doesn’t work. The Chinese are the most trusting society on earth and overwhelmingly favor collective solutions to social problems.

  18. @Godfree Roberts

    Haha, Godfree, you crack me up with your graphs! I’ve been to China 11 times, once for a month and a half, basically living there.* China is very much a low-trust society. I don’t know if that was the case throughout their long history, but it is now.

    I know a lady from China who had left her wallet at the grocery store here (phone, c-cards, cash, everything). She had thought all was lost by that point, as would have been the case in China. “Nope, you need to go back NOW though, before someone gives it to someone else to hold onto and the whole chain gets too long and nobody knows where it is.” She went back and it was right there for her. Same with one of my too-long-for-my-pocket cell phones that fell out onto the Lowes parking lot. Someone brought it into the store to the little lost-and-found box. In China, buh-bye phone.

    The Chinese trust only their family members and their people that are in cahoots in the whole guanxi network. That’s it. As far as the CCP government goes and your laughable bar graph, the Chinese people trust their government even less than they trust those motorcycle riders in Canton that would pull nearby to women and grab their still-connected purses and ride away. Many women got hurt, and the city banned all motorcycle traffic.

    .

    * How about you? You never answered this question.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Troll: showmethereal
  19. AaronB says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    the trends looked so good in 2010 even

    .

    Yes, even 10 years ago it looked like China was going to be a pretty cool place. That’s all over now, of course.

  20. Anonymous[201] • Disclaimer says:
    @Observator

    Jake is Jewish. I doubt he even understands what Christendom means.

    His job here is to deflect attention from his people by constantly posting WASPs and Anglo-Zionists cliches.

    • Agree: LondonBob
    • Replies: @Jake
  21. Rich says:
    @Observator

    The Federal government of the original US didn’t have an official religion, only because the Sates were permitted to choose one. Only five of the original 13 States didn’t have an official state religion, Delaware, Rhode Island, Georgia, Pennsylvania and New Jersey. John Adams own state, Massachusetts, had the Congregational Church as its official religion and didn’t end state support until 1833. I’m not saying that most of the leading revolutionaries were Church deacons, many were Deists, some even atheists, but there was absolutely no federal prohibition on individual states having official religions.

    I do agree with you that Christianity is no bar to totalitarianism, it began as the State religion of totalitarian Rome and continued on, in its various forms, as the religion of every totalitarian monarchy in Europe. Was Cromwell’s Britain any less totalitarian than the communists of the 20th century? I don’t think so, the only thing stopping him from Khmer Rouge style oppression of contrary thought was less technology. He executed and enslaved as many of his ideological enemies as he could get away with. Tyranny is the default human condition. We’ve had a nice run with our little freedoms, not sure how much longer it can last.

    • Thanks: RadicalCenter
    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
  22. OT but the latest attempt to deplatform the Oriental Observer has been succesfully circumvented. The establishment has been trying to silence Kevin McDonald for years now. The usual sources of internet funding, e.g., Paypal and credit card transactions have been denied him. If you value free speech now might be a good time to make a financial commitment.

    The Occidental Observer
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  23. britishbrainsize [AKA "australianbrainsize1325ccsnicker"] says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Your web site sucks first of all, my eyes hurt becasue your lines are too close to the next one.

    If I were a country I would love to have Chinese tourists instead of cheap shameless british sexpates whoring and getting drunk on their meager pensions, the Chinese tourists on the other hand are decent families visiting museums and sites with historical value and shopping for high dollar items, I would rather have Chinese tourists than degenerate shit faced britshits and americans.

    • Troll: VinnyVette
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  24. @Godfree Roberts

    Godfree Roberts, the ChiCom version of Tiny Duck.

    • Agree: 36 ulster, Alden
    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
  25. V.I. Kydor Kropotkin:

    Logic is on our side: this isn’t a case of a world struggle between two divergent ideologies, of different economic systems. Every day your country becomes more socialistic, my country becomes more capitalistic. Pretty soon we will meet in the middle and join hands. No, my dear doctor; you’re going to defect because you want to live.

    https://www.quotes.net/movies/the_president’s_analyst_148635

    • Replies: @Notsofast
  26. @Rich

    Thank you for your corrective to misunderstood American history. It’s amazing how few realize that the Bill of Rights was intended solely as a restraint on the federal government, until the Civil War and its aftermath effectively rewrote that whole document.

    • Agree: Thim, RadicalCenter
  27. anon[544] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Signs of a high-trusted society

    1. lawyers. A lot of them.
    2. Thousands and thousands of laws and regulations. One could go to jail for the slightest violation like drinking a beer on a sidewalk or in a park.
    3. An adult cannot drink until he or she is 21.
    4. Trust your politicians, Wall Street institutions, or even your local car mechanics to do the right thing.
    5. Spend $100 billion a year on policing and a further $80 billion on incarceration.

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts, Tor597
  28. Tor597 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t think that is incongruent at all.

    China going from a country where the people could starve on a day to day basis to a modern economy with a middle class will see trust levels increase overtime, just as Derb talks about the level of freedom in their society.

    That lady you knew, if it is even a true story, was likely older and more accustomed to living in a poor country.

    The younger Chinese are being brought up in a middle class environment where there is no incentive to engage in petty theft since there is ample opportunity.

    This is also true in early America. Early America was not 1950’s America. It was a rough place with a lot of poverty. That was a low trust environment too.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  29. Tor597 says:

    Derb is the classic Boomer who still sees the world as America = freedom and democracy and that is good while China = authoritarianism and communism and that is bad.

    Even Derb sees the lines are being blured but he cannot escape his bias that America has the more moral country.

    • Troll: VinnyVette
  30. Ian Smith says:
    @Observator

    The checks and balances were inspired by the Roman Republic and Aristotle. There are no republics or bills of rights in the Bible!

  31. Jake says:
    @Observator

    And that sure as all Hell created paradise and kept out the Devil and is marching us right into civilizational apotheosis.

    Adams, naturally, was a pure blood WASP, and he knew that WASP culture was from its birth on the side of anti-Christendom. He wasn’t smart enough to realize – as far as I know – that the British Empire had been Anglo-Zionist Empire since Cromwell made the deal with Jewish financiers, which political/economic deal was inherent fruit of the Judaizing heresy Anglo-Saxon Puritanism.

    American will start working to rebuild Christendom, or America will die, just like England, France, Spain, Netherlands, Germany, Sweden, Austria, etc.

  32. Jake says:
    @Anonymous

    So you deny that the USofA is allied equally with Israel, so that when it concerns Israel, or Jews, Israel clearly leads the alliance?

    Anglo-Zionist Empire.

    It didn’t happen out of the blue in 1967 or 1948. There are ancient deep-culture connections that are based on heretical theology.

  33. anon[163] • Disclaimer says:

    And there are some features of the modern world that work against hard totalitarianism. A few days ago there came out those video clips of Chinese Uighurs handcuffed and blindfolded, being herded into cattle wagons. Apparently they were leaked by someone with access to the drone footage.

    But only when it is in the interests of the western powers to denounce “tough totalitarianism” of their opponents. The allies never suffer these complaints. When they occur, they are dismissed as fake news or putinist agitprop.
    But Westerns racists will never want to understand this.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  34. Renate Künast, politician of the Green Party in Germany and ex-minister for the government in Berlin, asked for Antifa to be funded less bureaucratically and more reliably (!) – by tax-money – – in a speech she gave in March this year in the Bundestag.- This speech of Renate Künast got lots of applause from at least three paties in the Bundestag: The Lest, the Green Party and the social Democrats – who are in the coalliton which actually governs the country.

  35. @GomezAdddams

    China lifted those 750 million out of poverty on the backs of westerners who lost their jobs due to outsourcing, and the handing over of western technology or Chinese theft of that technology. They didn’t do a damn thing on their own.
    They smartly realized they will never be a world player until they embrace capitalism, only without a representative form of govt. / Democracy whatever you want to call it.
    Without the west China is the backwater, third world shit hole it’s always been.
    Move to fucking China!

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Troll: showmethereal
  36. @anon

    You’re missing the meaning of high-trust/low-trust society. It’s not about the government. It doesn’t help when you have a conniving, spying, regulating beast as “our” Feral Government has become, but the country still has a big remnant of the high-trust that it’s had since its Founding. It’s in the people, not the government.

    I’m not sure what the drinking age has to do with it. I have a good car mechanic who is a friend. (No, of course you can’t trust them all, especially at the dealers. Big Biz eliminates trust.)

    Your whole comment doesn’t address my point at all, #544.

  37. @Tor597

    Bullcrap on your whole comment. You have not been to China, have you? It was in the old days when almost everyone (besides high gov officials) was poor that there was not much theft. There was nothing much worth stealing. That’s not the situation now. Middle class Chinese people won’t do the petty theft, but that doesn’t mean you can trust them. There are many ways to steal.

    Early America from before the Founders on, being a mostly rural society with no police forces, almost no Feral government that one would ever run into, and a small population that could keep a good rein on their local politicians (their peers in the true meaning) was probably the most trusting society there’s ever been, since a nuclear family of hunter-gatherers. Then we had mass immigration into the cities from the 1880s through early 1920s, and the cities got filled with all kinds of corruption.

    From 30 years of slow assimilation through the 1950s, America was indeed a high-trust society by then. I can tell you that even in the late 1970s, one kept cars and houses unlocked where I live. I remember twice reaching into someone’s car in a parking lot and turning off the headlights to help them out (saving them from a jump start or bad battery). If you are too young to remember a “low-electronics society”, this was because there were no bells and whistles to warn one that the lights were on.

    BTW, the lady I mentioned had all the worst crime happen in the big city in the late 1990s through 00’s. Chinese criminals, being Chinese, are more clever than the dumbasses we have here, and they had some ingenious methods, let me tell you. Read “Cat burglars and entrepreneurship in China” Hopefully, you have your spectacles on.

    • Replies: @Tor597
    , @Mefobills
  38. @britishbrainsize

    a) Looks fine to me.
    b) ctrl+ … too small still? Repeat until each letter is as big as the E on the eye chart.
    c) Spectacles

  39. @VinnyVette

    USA offshored ALL those manufacturing jobs so YOU would have no middle class in USA. It was all planned –USA offshore–Mainstreet USA gutted and CEO and hedge fund managers and bankers reap in huge profits. THEN –pay NO TAXES !!! Matter of fact lower 50% of USA workers wages have fallen over 30 years while the top 5% has increased –no skyrocketed. Now –DRAIN THE SWAMP –that is classic. Donnie Trump cares about USA average person so much that he brings on tariffs so the averagae USA consumer is paying. See—you are following a line of complete brainwashing. Doubt this –Democrats will be worse unless you want Portland- Seattle- Chicago- Atlanta – Los Angeles – as International Tourist destinations. USA –crying shame–the good hardworking people have been deceived and lied to since Eisenhower. The CIA is safely guiding mainstreet USA though a color revolution ( I can’t breath–was it fentanol?) and selective news coverage and tearing down statues -NO this is history —-it must remain – learn from it. I see the future is rather daunting —A reality TV wrestling promoter con man real estate bankruptcy king taking on a man showing signs of Alzheimers –might miss the Amtrak at Wilimington. Had chance to move USA —-Portland as matter of fact but prefer where I reside- KAMALA was feared –that wooden mask – 7 foot tall – 400 pounds over the top ropes taking on a pari of white ham and eggers —-Reality Polotics now Monday night wrestling ??

  40. @Achmed E. Newman

    Your Chinese lady knew that she was in a low trust society, hence her anxiety.

    Societies get the governments they deserve.

    Trustworthy leaders create trusting societies and China’s leaders are trustworthy: they’ve kept every political promise they’ve made for 70 years.

    What’s more, they put their promises in writing and you can check their track record. Here’s a recent set of promises they’ve kept:

    As to my chart, above, it’s consistent with decades of surveys.

    What was you question?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  41. @VinnyVette

    China lifted those 750 million out of poverty on the backs of westerners who lost their jobs due to outsourcing, and the handing over of western technology or Chinese theft of that technology. They didn’t do a damn thing on their own.

    That’s a popular copout for politicians covering for their capitalist masters, but it has no basis in truth, as you can see here:

    • Agree: Tor597
  42. Tor597 says:
    @VinnyVette

    America lifted itself out of poverty by stealing land from native peoples all over the world, stealing technology from the existing leading economy at the time in Britain, stealing technology from rivals like semiconductors from Toshiba, and extracting wealth from the rest of the world through the petro dollar.

    • Troll: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  43. Tor597 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    This is some kind of propaganda you are pushing.

    So you say that the Chinese did not steal because there was nothing to steal, yet you admit that even modern day Chinese don’t steal now that they have real wealth. Nice job wrecking your argument right off the bat.

    When you say there are other ways to steal, you are implying corruption. Sure a lot of that exists in China, but it does in America too. You can see that the Chinese can get stuff done like building railroads and acting in its national interest. But you can’t say the same thing about America. There is so much graft that makes up our economy we can’t even do things in our interest because lobbyists like the pharma industry would stop it.

    Lastly, your historical narrative on America is unconvincing too. During this time there may have been high trust amongst the elite whites like Anglos, but that trust did not extend to the whole nation.

    Blacks were slaves and Natives were hunted to extinction. Asians were expelled and discriminated against and the same for hispanics. That is not a real high trust society. That is actually a much more immoral version you criticized China on for having close family relationships. What America did was far more immoral and unsustainable.

  44. Rob McX says:

    There is unlikely to be a convergence of the two countries. They have radically different racial composition, and they will act differently, even if their behaviour is influenced by the same events and the same technology. I can’t see the Chinese ever descending into ethnomasochism and tolerating mass immigration like white countries.

    BTW, you can defeat face recognition technology with a pair of spectacles costing around $100.

  45. @Jake

    Jake,

    This debate of whether the Jew is the partner or exploitive genocider of the white man is raging full bore right now in the comments here:

    https://www.unz.com/article/white-supremacist-jews-the-ku-klux-klan/

    You need to weigh in there with your accurately nuanced truth on all this.

  46. @Godfree Roberts

    Godfree, the lady speaks perfectly good English. You don’t seem to understand the English, so let me try again. Due to her having come from China fairly recently at that point, she was under the impression she’d never see the wallet again. I had to explain to her how it works in (at least the majority white part of) America… for now.

    My question was “have you been to China?”

    • Replies: @Godfree roberts
    , @Half-Jap
  47. @Tor597

    Plenty of Chinese steal – hence the burglar bars that go up multiple stories, as the Chinese burglars are not so obese as to not be able to climb up one set and get to the next floor. It’s a game of one-upmanship.

    No, the Chinese get infrastructure done (like crazy, from what I’ve already seen!) because they work hard and they are pouring money into it. That is money they’ve made from being the manufacturing powerhouse of the world. The Western politicians and Big-Biz oligarchs gave it all away. You are right about some of what you say, at least.

    Of course, the trust did not extend to the whole nation. Some people are trustworthy and some aren’t. Diversity! Hell yeah! /Sarc

  48. @Achmed E. Newman

    When I first came to America From Australia in the 60s my friends warned that I was taking my life in my hands because of the guns and gangsters.

    Had the lady lost her wallet in China she would not have been worried. She freaked out because she was in America The Dangerous. Which, as we know, is bullshit.

    • Agree: showmethereal
    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Alden
  49. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree roberts

    My Mandarrin’s not very good, but I think that translates to, “No, Achmed, I have not been to China.”

    A few months ago, I suggested that needless exaltation of the CCP distracted from your analyses of Uncle Sam’s criminality and ineptitude. Embarrassing evasion of straightforward, legitimate questions about your qualifications will have the same effect on the readership.

    Caveat: what’s with the lower case “roberts”? Compare #47 to #41 — we may have an impostor here.

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
  50. dfordoom says: • Website
    @animalogic

    However, as with many writers of a conservative bent, Mr D continues to fall into inaccuracies — errors so common now as to be hardly in need of correction.
    Firstly, Derb’ goes with the antifa = communism shtick. “It looks like Charlottesville 2017 was the beginning of a successful Communist coup against America.” Communist Coup – LOL

    Yes. Too many conservatives are still fighting the ideological battles of the 1950s. And anybody they disapprove of is a commie.

    The ideological battlefield of today bears no resemblance whatsoever to the ideological battlefield of the 1950s.

    Derb is marginally smarter that some of them. At times it seems like he’s on the verge of understanding that it isn’t the 1950s any more. But he can’t quite get there.

    • Agree: Thim, showmethereal
    • Replies: @Rob McX
  51. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Observator

    Christianity provides the ethical rationale for the totalitarian state. The author of Matthew in 5:28 attributes these words to Jesus, “But I say to you, that whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.” Since Jesus explicitly states that thinking about committing a sin is the same thing as actually doing it, His established church naturally usurps the state’s rightful obligation to control expressions of antisocial behavior and legitimizes, even demands, that citizens’ thinking be regulated.

    Agreed. It’s amusing to hear deluded claims that Christianity has anything to do with liberty.

    And Christianity of one form or another is the basis for the control freak Social Justice cult.

    • Disagree: SeekerofthePresence
    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  52. d dan says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “China is very much a low-trust society. I don’t know if that was the case throughout their long history, but it is now. I know a lady from China… The Chinese trust only their family members…”

    Making sweeping statements of complex topics from anecdote and limited experiences befits a simple and biased mind.

    Case closed.

  53. Rob McX says:
    @dfordoom

    Yes. Too many conservatives are still fighting the ideological battles of the 1950s. And anybody they disapprove of is a commie.

    The ideological battlefield of today bears no resemblance whatsoever to the ideological battlefield of the 1950s.

    Agree. Same goes for the description “social Marxism”, whatever it’s supposed to mean. The conflicts of today are better understood in terms of competition between subspecies, i.e. races, rather than some ideology based on economic or social theory. BLM and LGBTQ activism are supported by powerful people, not for the intrinsic merits these movements might have, but because they will undermine and possibly destroy white civilization.

    During the cold war, the Soviet Union covertly supported many liberal and left wing movements in America. But again, it wasn’t because the communists supported these movements. The purpose was for the USSR to weaken the competing world superpower.

    • Replies: @foolisholdman
  54. @Godfree Roberts

    Most of the war Japanese criminals that the Chinese were able to capture were transferred into the hands of Nationalists, who executed as many as they could in order to maintain some semblance of legitimacy in their rapidly fading regime.

    Any that Mao got his hands on were holdovers on Death Row, Manchurian/Mongolian minorities, and Opium drug-lords in Xinjiang. Many were more useful alive and spreading the gospel of Communism than dead. The Qing dynasts, it should be added, were also turned into Potemkin revolutionaries. A fine sleight of hand by the Chairman, in my view.

  55. Do you have a reliable source for that?

    As far as I know Mao had a million and did not turn any over to the Nationalists. How could he?

    I know that the Japanese that Mao repatriated formed a Mao fan club back home.

    It was active until the last of them died around the turn of the century.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  56. @d dan

    Dude, have you even thought about being a journalist? You’ve got this down pat. Your picking out of 2 sentence fragments and calling that my commentary, you reminded me very much of this great piece of journalism:

    Doesn’t my first sentence with the “11 times” and all count for anything? Man!

    • Replies: @d dan
  57. Emslander says:
    @Anon

    Getting through and comprehending either of those books would be a high achievement exercise for most American college graduates today.

    Assigning either of those books to today’s children would be an act of criminal hate.

  58. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @d dan

    Well said.

    And — if I might do a little sweeping myself — that behavior’s highly correlated to use of the odd “An Optional Website or Link” box. Some people here seem to think that they must have and share their opinion, however marginally informed, rather than merely ask questions of or criticize others. (This is also one of the possible side effects of taking a “real handle.”) They’re often not commenting, but parasitizing because they can’t get enough engagement on their own dinky sites.

    Well illustrated by this thread’s cage match between Achmed and Godfree, each of whom has also punched that overused “Troll” button to duck discussion.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  59. @dfordoom

    Puerile anti-Christian propaganda. Historians with brains like John Locke, Thomas Jefferson, and Lord Acton contradict the above nonsense.

    Right now Christian civilization, the freest the world has known, is fighting for its life against Marxism and Alinskyism. Splenetic spewage like the above doesn’t help.

  60. anon[161] • Disclaimer says:

    US NEWS: Portland Rioters Attempt to Murder Man Who Intervened In Their Robbery and Assault of a White Trans Person

    https://districtherald.com/portland-rioters-attempt-to-murder-man-who-intervened-in-their-robbery-and-assault-of-a-white-trans-person/

    “The rioter who ran up and punched the man after he had already been brutally beaten to the point of nearly losing consciousness has been identified by 4Chan users as Marquise “Keese” Love, whose Facebook profile lists him as a ramp agent at Portland International Airport. He also works as a DJ in the evenings.”

    #location – Marquise Love 19405 NW Mahama Way Apt C Portland OR 97229-3139

  61. Rather than continue these arguments, (and, after all, Godfree Roberts has his own column on unz, does he not, for his opinions?), I want to write a couple of things – 2 separate comments.

    The first is that, though I’ll argue over this high-trust society claim by Mr. Roberts, who has never answered us about his ever having been to China, I do like the Chinese people. I do not maintain that they are all a bunch of crooks or thieves, by any means. A high-trust society, though, must have a hugely overwhelming number of people who are taught (or maybe genetically inclined?) to do the right thing.

    Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s the case in China, as many good and hard-working people there are. I appreciate the respectfulness out of the Chinese people I’ve seen in the street, stores, factories, what-have-you, even in (or maybe because it is) this very crowded place.

    As Peak Stupidity related in “A Peak Stupidity apology to our Chinese readers”, the civil engineering going on there now is AMAZING. China is a CAN-DO country vs. America, which is a CAN’T-DO country at this point. Maybe that’s another “convergence” per Mr. D’s title, except that we’ve passed each other. The opposite would have been true even through the 1970s. It took the death of Chairman Mao over there and the Long March by the Commies through the institutions here, for this big switch to happen.

    (Yes, I used the word “Commies”. I want to reply to DforDoom on that bit – antifa as Commies, but it may have to be later on today.)

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Tor597
  62. @anonymous

    I call out BS when I see it, man. Mr. Roberts’ initial comment on China being a high-trust society is just wrong, and I don’t like to see outright big lies stand on here. Mr. Derbyshire could confirm, but I know he doesn’t chime in often.

    Beside Mr. Roberts’ column on this site, he seems to be linking to 2 other different sites, and then he’s got his Thailand-retirement consulting deal going. Fine. I link to posts on my blog that relate. Having been 11 times to China and having Chinese friends and acquaintances doesn’t make me an expert, but more of an expert than this Mao sack-hanger.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @denk
  63. Tor597 says:
    @SeekerofthePresence

    Thomas Jefferson the slave holder was a defender of liberty? Lol

    Christianity is not the driver of liberty nor an impediment.

  64. Clemsnman says:

    The biggest difference between Chinese culture/government and the USA culture/government is that the Chinese don’t have a whole political party/population dedicated to the extinction and removal from society the entire other party, or the wholesale replacement of the majority ethnicity by whatever means will work.

    We do.

  65. botazefa says:
    @Tor597

    Thomas Jefferson the slave holder was a defender of liberty? Lol

    Them’s fighting words, stranger.

    What’s your nationality?

    • Replies: @dearieme
  66. d dan says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    ” Your picking out of 2 sentence fragments and calling that my commentary, “

    Yes, I read your ENTIRE comments, and many others in this and other threads. I only quote a few sentence fragments because it is not necessary to repeat your entire posts.

    “Doesn’t my first sentence with the “11 times” and all count for anything? Man!”

    Yes, it counts. And they are still classified as “anecdote and limited experiences”, for a large nation of 1.4 billions (or even small nations), in case you still don’t understand.

    • Replies: @Daniel Chieh
  67. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Mr. Derbyshire could confirm, but I know he doesn’t chime in often.

    That’s an understatement. As a columnist, has he ever rolled up his sleeves and argued his case directly in a thread?

    Yet we know he reads comments, as he sometimes works general, purported rebuttal into the back end of a Radio Derb transcript, stealthily distorting or avoiding altogether the better among his critics. Fred Reed scratches the same chickensh*t. Amusingly, they’ve each commented under the other’s column and, of course, been ignored.

    • Replies: @Tor597
  68. @Tor597

    Thomas Jefferson the slave holder was a defender of liberty?

    George Washington, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Martin Van Buren, William Henry Harrison, and John Tyler also owned slaves.

  69. dearieme says:
    @botazefa

    Do you treat all statements of simple truth as a provocation to fight?

    • Agree: Tor597
    • LOL: botazefa
    • Replies: @botazefa
  70. botazefa says:
    @dearieme

    It was the part about Jefferson not being a defender of liberty that I objected to. Who would say such nonsense!

    • Replies: @Tor597
  71. dr death says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Trusting your government isn’t advisable.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @denk
  72. @dr death

    As I said, that’s a Roman/Western attitude that is justified by thousands of years of lying and incompetence.

    Martin Jacques explains why the Chinese trust their government:

    The reason the State enjoys a formidable legitimacy in the eyes of the Chinese has nothing to do with democracy but can be found in the relationship between the State and Chinese civilization. The State is seen as the embodiment, guardian and defender of Chinese civilization. Maintaining the unity, cohesion and integrity of the Chinese civilization-state is perceived as the highest political priority, the sacrosanct task of the Chinese State. Unlike in the West, where the State is viewed with varying degrees of suspicion, even hostility and regarded, as a consequence, as an outsider, in China the state is seen as an intimate, as part of the family, indeed as the head of the family.

    – When China Rules the World:

  73. dfordoom says: • Website
    @SeekerofthePresence

    Right now Christian civilization, the freest the world has known, is fighting for its life against Marxism and Alinskyism.

    Christian civilisation? What Christian civilisation? We’ve been in a post-Christian world for quite some time now. The days when Christianity was a major social/cultural/political force are over. Those days are not coming back.

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
    , @anon
  74. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    and the Long March by the Commies through the institutions here

    I certainly don’t deny that there’s been a Long March through the institutions, but it hasn’t been carried out by the commies. It could be argued that it was begun by commies three-quarters of a century ago but those who have completed the Long March are no longer communists, and of course they’re not the same people.

    Something changed radically during the course of the Long March. What changed is that the marchers abandoned communism. Those who currently control the institutions are something else entirely. They’re a whole new ideological species.

    We are certainly engaged in an ideological war, but it’s not the same ideological war that raged during the 1950s.

    Those on the Right who fret about communists are wanting to fight the wrong war (a war which is long over) against the wrong enemy. The communists are gone. There are new enemies now.

    • Agree: Tor597, Emily
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  75. Firstly, thank you for prompting me to write my comment this evening, Mr. Doom.

    No, of course these people who control the institutions now and the ones who are out destroying property in the cities, are not the same people, and they don’t espouse the same ideology, as those Commies of 3/4 century ago. True, they don’t read Marx and Engles (probably couldn’t read much of anything longer than 144 characters), don’t carry Chairman Mao’s little red book, and they wear black instead of red, which is usually de rigueur for Communists.

    One could call them nihilists, or people believing in nothing. (Plus they wear black like the nihilists in The Big Lebowski.) They are out to destroy not only STUFF, but traditional society. The latter is what the Long March has been all about – feminism, genderbender nonsense, State indoctrination at the youth propaganda camps errr, public schools from earlier ages every few decades, Socialism (the encouragement of irresponsibility and discouragement of responsibility), etc. All these are ways of destroying the nuclear family and communities.

    No matter that these people don’t know what “the proletariat” means or what “class struggle” is about, they have this in common with the Commies down through the last century: they want to destroy tradition. The Soviets, the Red Chinese, Pol Pot’s murderous gang, Castro, all of them had the same goal in the back of their minds as these antifa and these sick lefty professors, the stupid media whores, and Soros-backed government and all those in the Establishment of 2020 do.

    Ask one of the more lucid of these antifa idiots what he recommends society be like. He will tell you about how HE would run things. You’ll find out he’s a control freak like all the real Commies have been.

    I know the Cold War has been over for 30 years, Mr. Doom (though someone should tell the Neocons that). This isn’t about Russia or China as enemy countries. This is about the internal enemies in lots of countries, but most especially America at this stage. I will continue to call them Commies, as I have the same kind of hatred toward them as I do toward the Commies of old. If you’ve got a better name, knock yourself out.

  76. @dfordoom

    Per Mr. Anonymous #245 and what you have to say, I think it would be nice if Mr. Derbyshire chimed in with his own explanation to you of why he thinks of the antifa as Communists. In the meantime, and because he’s an ex-Englishman, I present to you the Communist Quiz Show from Monty Python:

  77. @Achmed E. Newman

    I have not been to China but have otherwise traveled widely. Including on many trips with a Chinese friend who lives in the USA. Most of her immediate family is here but, she has one brother and many aunts, uncles and cousins in China.

    What she has described to me about China and the culture there lines-up precisely with what you stated. According to her, it is endlessly corrupt throughout Govt and business. Pretty much, nobody trusts anybody except family/friends.

    Btw, when they come here to live, their practices do not cease. I gather from her that most Chinese (Asians in general, really) who have their own businesses transact substantially in cash and, not surprisingly, only declare about half of their actual sales/profits/income for tax purposes.

    Grin….no wonder the Chinese/Asians in the USA don’t complain about not getting minority attention from the Democrats or whomever……they don’t need anyone looking too closely.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  78. Tor597 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    This narrative is about schadenfreude of China’s success mixed in with romanticism of a white America long gone.

    In otherwords you cling to the hope that there is something inherently wrong with the Chinese that will prevent them from becoming a super power and there is something inherently good about white America that will always keep America on top no matter how many mistakes they make.

    • Agree: dfordoom, Daemon
    • Replies: @AaronB
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  79. Tor597 says:
    @botazefa

    If you owned slaves, then you are not a defender of liberty. It is as simple as that. I’m sorry to have popped your bubble son.

    How could I call myself a pacifist if I was mostly peaceful but sometimes went to war?

    • Replies: @botazefa
    , @BloodSpirit
  80. Tor597 says:
    @anonymous

    The Derb is a coward. He doesn’t have the guts to face anyone who challenges his ideas in print, over the phone, or face to face.

  81. AnonCN says:

    West have copied ancient China overall in language, science, and culture

    Find the History of the West in British Museum: Modern West is a “sub civilization” Derived from China — “code of Chinese character” and early modern Europe
    ——-by 诸玄识 Zhu Xuanshi 2019.03.05
    (This lecture is translated by Baidu online translation from Chinese to English, simply checked by AnonCN 2020.Aug)

    [MORE]

    I. Opportunity: favorable time and place → geographical advantage
    1.1
    What we want to say is that the premise of the rise of modern West is “favorable time and place”, which is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. The emergence of this opportunity and the connotation of Western civilization are “given by China”.
    Generally speaking, the rise and fall of the modern nation-state, the rise and fall of its strength or the ups and downs of its fate, objectively depends on the merits of its geographical environment and whether it has the strategic advantage of “geopolitics”.
    Countries with good geographical location can bring out people’s potential, maximize positive energy and relieve negative energy; therefore, they can develop greatly and create miracles. On the contrary, geographically poor countries have to bear both internal and external negative energy. Countless internal and external troubles, positive energy get offset, development is hindered and man-made disasters queue in line. From the military point of view, it is just like whether you stand in the mountain peak or the mountain valley, the geographical advantages and disadvantages, the superior and inferior: those stand at upside on the mountain play with better cards in the war.

    1.2
    Now we have to ask: what are the strategic advantages of World Geopolitics in the past 500 years from 1500 to 2000? Ocean – Mobility and convenience of ocean! For example, in the Opium War, the British fleet could not fight Guangzhou or Xiamen; since it could not fight Xiamen, it continued to march northward into the Yangtze River (the second Opium War was in the north, entering the Bohai Bay); concentrating its superior forces and breaking through the weak links was a principle of victory in the war. But for the national defense of the mainland, troops gathering, logistics transportation and emergency rescue are very slow.
    Another question: before the ocean age, that is, in history, where was the geographical advantage? Answer: grassland. Desert grassland, nomadic riding and shooting, galloping and interspersed. With the development of ancient civilization and the spread of technology, it is inevitable that warlike tribes will be equipped, and more importantly, their geographical advantages will be enhanced. From plateau terrain to river valley plain, from ecologically poor places to rich cities, nomadic tribes will fight more smoothly and bravely. It is even more difficult for the peasants to defend and attack. Just like that, the technological progress of the Song Dynasty also led to “natural enemies”: Khitan, Xixia, Jurchen, Mongolia, and so on.
    In the 21st century, is the strategic advantage of geopolitics still the ocean? Answer: changed! We put forward the concept of “land and sea organic”, that is, the “organic combination” of the largest continent and the largest ocean. This makes new global hub. Where is it now? In the 21st century, the strategic advantage of global geopolitics has shifted to land and sea organic – the radiation and converge center of the world.
    As early as 1904, the British geographer Mackinder pointed out that the “old continent” (Eurasia and Africa) was the “World Island”, which was convenient for the powers or hegemonic powers to invade, plunder and control from its edge by means of “gunboat policy”. Mackinder further predicted that once the railway connection was formed within the mainland, the strategic significance of the ocean would decline or even lose, and the maritime hegemony would eventually be eliminated naturally. Take the example of China and Japan: a hundred years ago, Japan had an absolute advantage in maritime geography; if you can’t reach Japan, it is easy for Japan to beat you; with the same military strength, Japan’s effectiveness was several times higher than that of China. Today, on the contrary, in the same arms race, China’s effectiveness is ten times or a hundred times higher than that of Japan. Once the war starts, Japan has not yet destroyed or occupied a Chinese city, the entire island country will be smashed and sunk. With the development of science and technology, the geographical advantages and war potential of this tiny region have been abandoned. Although Japan is a staunch ally of the United States in the current peace period, if there is a real fight in the Taiwan Strait or the South China Sea in the near future, Japan will declare “neutrality” so as not to be destroyed. But in the long run, Japan’s way out is to “leave the United States and join China.”.
    1.3
    Looking back now, why did the West rise. The west before modern times is completely different from that after modern times. The characteristics of the after-modernity: the world is connected and the world is open, while the west is close to the water. Before modern times, the West should be one of the poorest and most backward areas in the world. It is said to be “medieval feudal society”, but it is actually a primitive tribal society with zero development for thousands of years. For example, before the 17th century, Europeans – everyone from the top to the bottom – barely bathed. This is determined by its geographical environment. Europe is a high latitude, with few sunshine and barren surface (before modern times, it was not suitable to develop agriculture), coupled with “non seasonal rain” (rainfall is opposite to the growth period of plants), and its land can provide one fifth to one tenth of China’s means of living. It was very difficult for people to survive, and conflicts are overwhelming (conflicts between people and people, between people and nature), if it is not religious imprisonment, it is difficult to form a settled population. On the other hand, it also imprisons people’s potential and achievements; therefore, the west before modern times was primitive stagnation.
    How did the west turn the tide? That is, the Mongolian conquest, Zheng He’s long voyage, land and sea Silk Road and technology communication, etc., which began to connect the world and bring it into the marine era. However, first of all, the geographical advantages of some islands and peninsulas on both sides of the Eurasian continent were raised, so that the “western” and “Oriental” (Japan) began to have the strategic advantages during maritime geopolitics, while the world’s mainland and its continental and maritime frontiers suffered from it: exposed to “marine violence”.
    Europe has become a shortcut connecting the eastern and western hemispheres, known as the “thoroughfare of the world”; from there to America, it is half the distance of China across the Pacific Ocean. This means that the development center will move this way.
    At the same time, the technology material civilization initiated and promoted by ancient China is “from quantitative change to qualitative change” under the new situation, because modern people use “global ecology” as its balance condition and sacrifice cost. The development of ancient China was carried out in her own land environment. It can’t develop too fast or too big. Otherwise, mountains and rivers will be broken, rivers and lakes will be abandoned, and natural and man-made disasters will occur.
    The “development mechanism” (technology material civilization) of traditional China to go through quantitative change to qualitative change that would blowout explosive development need a far more suitable and accessible geographical environment, which doesn’t exist for China. That makes the West. On the other hand, the west, by virtue of its geographical advantages, gathers the achievements and wealth of the ancient and modern western countries, climbs the summit on the shoulders of “historical giants”, and acts as the relay and sprinter of Chinese civilization. On the other hand, as the conqueror of the world, the West has also replaced the historical “grassland violence” (the source of war to conquer the world) from the opposite side, and upgraded to “marine violence”, which, to put it more seriously, is “the natural enemy of civilization”.
    TBC…

  82. AnonCN says:

    II、 Detonating: Chinese history → enlightenment

    [MORE]

    2.1
    In the mid-17th century, about 1650’s, a missionary who returned from China to Europe published a book, which caused shock. The missionary was an Italian whose Chinese name was 卫匡国 Wei Kuang Guo, also Martino Martini (1614-1661). Soon after, he came back to China again until he died. His tomb was in Hangzhou. The name of the book is very common, it is called “Ancient Chinese History”. Its content includes an unusual history, that is, Fuxi, Huangdi, Yao, Shun, Yu and so on (three emperors and five emperors). This history is not recognized by the academic circles at home and abroad. In my opinion, the western centralism not only deliberately shortens Chinese history, but also, more importantly, in order to conceal the true source of modern West, it also has something to do with this history of Wei Kuang Guo.
    It was this period of history (Fuxi, Huangdi, Yao, Shun, Yu) that set off the most significant and far-reaching revolution in the West. Originally, Europeans believed that the human story described in the Bible from Genesis to the great flood is true, unique and all inclusive. Now there are books and documents proving that there is an ancient nation and noble civilization besides and even before the biblical narration! In this way, Christian mythology was broken down and the sanctity of Christianity was subverted. As a result, the Europeans reshaped the West according to the “Chinese model”; there are two aspects: reshaping the present, through the enlightenment; reshaping the past, through the compilation of history.

    2.2
    Of course, there were history and history books in the west before Wei Kuang Guo, but they were not convincing and authoritative, especially lacking the concept of time or full of time chaos. For example, when did Babylon last hundreds of thousands of years and ancient Egypt tens of thousands of years? When did Genesis happen according to Bible? Only six thousand years ago. Isn’t this contradictory and absurd?
    The first westerner to write history according to the “Chinese model” was Joseph Scaliger (1540-1609), which was about AD1600, half a century before the publication of Wei Kuang Guo’s book. As a Frenchman, he went to Holland, the cultural center of Europe, that is, the Chinese cultural center. From there, the “Chinese style, Chinese fever” began. Scaliger got the “three treasures” by chance and wrote two books excitedly. The “three treasures” are: 1. The chronology of Chinese history (dynasty emperor) from Fuxi, Huangdi, Yao, Shun, Yu down to the middle of Ming Dynasty; 2. The calculation method of timing: the Heavenly Stems and Earthly Branches (zodiac), with a cycle of 60 years; 3. Mendoza, a Spaniard, had never been to China, and wrote the book History of China Empire according to hearsay.
    Scaliger wrote two works: Chronology (1583) and Time Correction (1606). As the name suggests, it is to solve the problem of time. Referring to the time sequence of Chinese civilization, Scaliger established the chronological system of Western history. Its general program is “Biblical chronology”, from which sub-systems are derived, namely, pan western “classical civilization” (Greece and Rome) and “ancient civilization” (Egypt and Babylon). The Euphrates and the Tigris were firstly only about Babylon at that time, but later many emerged, such as Hittite, Assyria and Sumer. Sumer was born in the early 20th century and became the “first civilization”, which should be questioned.
    Scaliger is known as the “father of Chronicle”, and his achievement is called “the chronicle of Scaliger”. However, in the first half of the 17th century, it was absurd, criticized and accepted by no one. It was not until the publication of Wei Kuang Guo’s works that the “Scaliger Chronicle” was paid attention to; scholars revised and refined the “Scaliger Chronicle” according to Wei Kuang Guo’s books and other Chinese materials, and finally made it a “standard history”. However, there are still many critics: for example, the scientist Newton wrote the monograph “the revision of the annals of the ancient kingdom”, pointing out that “the chronicles of Scaliger” is not true and correct, and the so-called “ancient Greece and ancient Egypt” are all fictitious or exaggerated. Voltaire reveals that all pan western ancient kingdoms or histories are “copying China”. He said that the Chinese nation is the only civilization in the world that lasted; that Chinese history and civilization are unique (the others are untrustworthy myths).
    Wei Kuang Guo’s ” Ancient Chinese History ” opened the prelude to the European enlightenment. What is the enlightenment? It is the transformation from “God’s society” to “human society”. What kind of “human society”? There is only one kind, which is the Confucian “human society”. In world history, only China and its sphere of influence are “human society”, while the rest of the world – especially the West – is “God’s society”. Therefore, in the whole process of the enlightenment, from the middle of the 17th century to the end of the 18th century, it was guided by Chinese culture. It can also be said that Westerners are spiritually “Sinicized” (betraying the original intention and covering up the truth later is another matter). Confucianism was called “natural God” instead of Christian God, and Confucius was regarded as “the patron god of enlightenment”.
    The European Enlightenment is divided into three parts: the early stage was in Holland, the middle stage and the later stage were in France; in terms of theme, the early stage was history, the middle stage was philosophy, and the later stage was politics. All of them are “people-oriented” — human history, human philosophy and human politics, they are completely separated from “God”.
    The history part has already been said. The middle period of the European Enlightenment was philosophy, which was divided into two parts: subject, could human beings save themselves, manage themselves and form society? Object: apart from biblical genesis, can man understand nature, master laws and make a difference? Christian propaganda: once people leave God, they will be monsters, evil and hell on earth. Confucianism believes that people can build a good society through education and ethics and people can make great achievements. From the practice of 19th and 20th century, why did the west do better without Confucianism? Let’s explain its essence: if a society alienates its main contradictions to the outside world and shifts its focus of survival and competition to the outside world, its interior becomes a “team” — orderly and rational; it kills people and sets fire to the outside world, and internally “freedom and democracy”! However, there are conditions and costs. Once the “strategic advantage of maritime geography” is lost in the future, the West will be exposed in its original form and fall into the hell on earth. At that time, it will either return to the previous “theocracy” or accept the Confucian “self denial and deny self and return to propriety “.
    The later stage of European Enlightenment was politics, which denied the monopoly of state power by church, aristocracy and royal family, and demanded people’s right to participate in politics and select talents fairly. This is all influenced by Confucianism. 大道之行,天下为公,选贤与能,讲信修睦Build the world for the public, selection of talent and ability, with good faith. Among them, “selecting virtuous and capable” is to select people with morality and ability to govern the country, that is, “education without class” and “learning to be an official”. There is also a more clear democratic thought in 《周礼》The Rites of Zhou , that is, “使民兴贤,出而长之;使民兴能,入而治之”. It is said that we should make the people have morality and select the excellent to govern the country; we should enable the people to select the excellent and manage the local areas. To take an inappropriate example, similar to quoting Chairman Mao’s works in the past, the elites of Europe and North America in the 18th century were familiar with Confucian classics.
    The enlightenment reached its climax, that is, in the end, Mencius’ thought that the people are more important than the monarch, so it comes kill the tyrant. The enlightenment went to the extreme – the French Revolution of 1789. There are two extremely ironic points: in one side overthrown Louis XVI Dynasty which carried out the economic reform of the Physiocrat school before, which is influenced by Confucianism; the other side is that Louis XVI himself is struggling with the nobles to reduce the burden of the “third class”, which is also 为民请命、匍匐救丧 “pleading for the people and crawling to save the mourning”.
    As an important achievement of the enlightenment, western democracy was realized a hundred years later, and one of the indispensable links was the introduction of the civil service system and examination system in ancient China. During the two Opium Wars, Britain began to try out this system in the East India Company. After 1870, it was implemented in the British homeland and throughout the British Empire. Other European countries have done the same. In 1883, the U.S. Congress approved the proposal on the introduction of Chinese civil service system and examination system. Although Jefferson had advocated it before, but there was a long-term dispute: the opponents attacked the proponents as “chinks”, not Americans. The turning point of the matter was that in 1881, an American who complained about “unfair job hunting” assassinated US President Garfield, and the Congress stepped up the discussion and accelerated the discussion. During the final procedure it is decided to follow the example of Britain. During this period, there was a touching saying: “in this world, we, the youngest country, adopt the tested and advanced system of the oldest country”.
    TBC…

  83. AnonCN says:

    3、 Formation: code behind Chinese character → world civilization

    [MORE]

    After the enlightenment movement in the 17th-18th century, the West completed the “transformation” – from “God’s society” to “human society”, thus entering the “world civilization”.《易经》 “The Book of Changes” said: “there is a dragon in the field, the world civilization.” In western languages, the word “civilization” firstly appeared in French. It was a Chinese concept extracted by Jacques Turgot in 1772.
    The West has two faces: “the relay of civilization” and “the new natural enemy of civilization”.
    The above content is only the surface of how modern west is an extension of ancient China. There is also the connotation under it, that is “the code of Chinese character”. Professor David Porter, director of the Department of English at the University of Michigan in the United States, published his monograph Ideograph: Chinese Character Code in Early Modern Europe, which reveals that “the early modern West is the development of the code of Chinese character”. There are many similar studies abroad.
    Let’s start with words. According to common sense, characters are divided into hieroglyphs, phonetic characters and ideographs. Some people say that Chinese characters are hieroglyphs, while others say that they are ideographs. We believe that Chinese characters are a trinity of pictographic, phonetic and ideographic, with the focus on ideographic representation. Buddhism has “six senses”: eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body and mind. Mind/Meaning is the highest. Hieroglyphics are “eye recognition”, while phonetic characters are “ear recognition”, which are all physiological characters.
    Hieroglyphics can only express specific and sporadic objects, but not complex, multidimensional, changeable and systematic ideas. It is the rudiment of characters and the symbol of primitive tribes or religions, which is not competent for civilization. Does “ancient Egyptian civilization” match with hieroglyphs? (this requires another Monograph).
    Phonetic characters can’t be self generated, because everyone’s accent is different – accent is different in space and changeable in time. How can we reach an agreement or common ground? The latter is the premise of the birth of the text. The phonetic characters themselves show that the society or nation has no ability to develop characters.
    So, how did the Western phonetic characters come into being?
    Around the 15th century, after the four great inventions (paper, gunpowder, compass, movable type printing) were introduced to Europe, Westerners relied on printing and paper to lock and specify phonetic symbols, that is, letters. The earliest phonograms in the West were religious – Latin and Greek. Greek originally had nothing to do with ancient Greece and today’s Greece. It belonged to Slavic orthodox, shared by Judaism, and later became a forgery tool of western centralism.
    With the popularity of printing, secular writing (French, English, German…) springing up like bamboo shoots after a rain.
    However, the emergence of phonetic characters has caused serious crisis. In the past, there was hardly any writing and little communication, so there was no common misunderstanding. Now “each one expresses its own voice” settle down its own language, without reasonable meaning and can not explain the truth clearly. Endless quarrels and vicious words add fuel to the ongoing religious war, which is irreconcilable. This is what happened in Europe in the first half of the 17th century.
    In terms of communication and understanding, Chinese characters maximize the “positive side”, while phonetic characters maximize the “negative side”. “Phonetic characters” are contrary to the evolution of characters.
    So, how did the Western phonetic characters turn the crisis into safety and prevail in the world?

    3.3
    We look at the whole process of the formation of modern Western characters. It can be divided into three stages: positive → negative → integration.
    “positive正” means that printing technology gives birth to secular writings,
    “negative反” means phonetic writings fall into religious wars and almost dying,
    “integration合” is the rebirth by absorbing the meaning of Chinese characters.
    We have already talked about the first two stages, and now we will talk about the third stage, which is “integration”.
    At the beginning of the 17th century, Francis Bacon pointed out that: Western characters are just phonetic symbols and have no meaning; while Chinese characters are “real words” to express things, concepts and ideas; Chinese characters are the “currency” of various languages – just like coins, they are “universal media”, not affected by local dialects. Since then, for 150 years in a row, Europe has carried out language and character reforms, all of which are based on the model Chinese characters.
    Chinese character has reasonable and legal connotation, that is: ideographic and freehand brushwork, meaning and definition, concept and idea, thinking and speculation, universality and abstraction, metaphysics and metaphysics, logic and logos. Logos is the “Tao” of ancient Chinese philosophy, while logic comes from ideographic characters, that is, Chinese characters. According to the textual research of our language experts, in the earliest or 17th century western language, “logic” means “Laozi” (logic), and logos (logos) is “Laozi thought”.
    The goal of European language reform is to transplant Chinese connotation into their ideographs. If they don’t, Western writing cannot write literature, science and philosophy, and there will be no modern civilization.
    It can be said that modern western phonetic characters are parasitic on “Chinese ideogram”; the phonetic form is its own, and the ideographic connotation (definition, concept, etc.) is Chinese. Here we do not go to another study of the origin of nouns in both Chinese and Western pronunciation, for example: Dan旦(one day) → day, Jiang酱(jam) → jam, Shidafu士大夫(civil servant or scholar bureaucrat) → staff, Laozi 老子(BC571-BC4**?)→ logic,etc. What we want to reveal is that Western characters are parasitic on “Chinese character ideogram” (definition and concept).
    For example, the word “feudal” came into being in the 18th century, and its root “feud” means “clan or blood feud”, which has nothing to do with feudalism (feudalism has elements of system and civilization). Inspired by Wei Kuang Guo’s work of China, European scholars in the 18th century put the concept of “Zhou Dynasty feudalism” (BC1046-BC256) into the old words, which led to the present word “feudal”.
    What’s more, the West has tampered the history by the way
    Before modern times, the West was actually a primitive Gothic Germanic tribal society. This is exactly what Dr. Johnson’s English dictionary, published in 1755, calls it “primitive and savage”. However, it soon became “the feudal society of the Middle Ages”, and it also applied the Zhou Dynasty(BC1046-BC256) system in an all-round way, including the aristocratic ranks of Duke, Marquis, Earl, Viscount and Baron, with the king at the top and the gentleman under. These are the new systems and new fashions just learned from China in the 17th century, but they are used to rewrite the past savage times.
    Johnson’s English dictionary is an important achievement of transforming Chinese into English. Johnson borrowed meanings and definitions from Chinese, and “decoded Chinese characters and thought according to Chinese”.

    3.4
    At last, some discusses about the code of Chinese character and the emergence of the ” Western School”.
    We put forward a strange and ironic proposition, that is: ancient and modern western originated from a Chinese, he is Fuxi伏羲; this event did not happen in ancient times, but in the 17th century. In other words, both the real civilization and the false history in the West originated from “Fuxi”伏羲 in the 17th century.
    The so-called “Biblical chronology” and the pan western “world history” (ancient civilization and classical civilization) are all set with Fuxi伏羲 as the “time base”.
    In a sense, Leibniz confirmed this proposition. Leibniz and Jesuits (Bouvet, a French mathematician) reached a consensus that “the unity of Chinese and Western culture” originated from Fuxi伏羲 and his Book of Changes; the source of all human knowledge, including philosophy, science and mathematics, is the Book of Changes.
    In addition, the Book of Changes also promoted Chinese characters from pictograph to ideograph, thus becoming a tool for storing and conveying knowledge. This led to the early modern “code of Chinese character”. Therefore, Bouvet said: “Chinese characters are the password to open all knowledge.”.
    The following is about the “cod of Chinese character” and the emergence of Western literature, science, philosophy and economics.
    (a) characters
    the “Chinoiseries” in the 18th century and the romantic movement it promoted were characterized by the creation of “classic masterpieces”, such as Homer’s epic, Shakespeare’s plays, Gothic literature, medieval poetry and Dante’s divine comedy. Even if they had been there before, they were all vulgar, crude and inferior, and had no literary or artistic quality. However, in the 18th century, under the environment of ” Chinoiseries and Chinese enlightenment”, they were completely rewritten, canonized, turned into classic, and were infused with elements of Chinese culture and characters. German Goethe established a database of “world literature” with translated Chinese literature, which was used to write western literature and Greek literature.
    (b) science
    now common sense says that “the scientific revolution took place in the 17th century”, but in fact, all the participants at that time, including Descartes, Newton and Leibniz, all went all out to break through the “language bottleneck”; its peak was in 1668 when the Royal Society of England hold a meeting discussed Wilkins’ paper “Real Words and Philosophical Language”, and the “real word” was Chinese characters by Bacon. At the meeting, it was mentioned whether Chinese characters could be directly used as western scientific and philosophical characters, but they were afraid that Chinese characters were too many and too complicated, so they gave up. Then they talked about how to make western phonetic characters become as philosophical as Chinese characters. The latter was gradually implemented.
    Western science is divided into two aspects: practical technology and scientific theory (pure science, philosophy of science, scientism). According to the current common sense, Western science came from ancient Greece; however, in the 17th century, “ancient Greece” and Christianity were both obstacles to human progress. If they were not eliminated, there would be no science and philosophy. “Ancient Greece” was forged by a group of so-called “humanism” clergy scholars, reflecting the positive and negative aspects of Christianity, but had nothing to do with the actual technology and the thought of “human”; the “ancient Greece” we read today was mainly rewritten in Germany in the 19th century.
    There are three Chinese sources of Western practical technology: 1. Chinese inventions were introduced into Europe, far more than four great inventions, but more than 100 inventions. 2. The scientific and technological knowledge in Chinese literature is the foundation for the establishment of the Royal Society of England and the French Academy (at that time, Robert Hooke, who was as famous as Newton at that time, called for the opening of the kingdom of Chinese knowledge, and Newton’s laws were included in 墨子Mozi’s book; until 1767, the Royal Society of England was grateful to be able to share the Chinese information of the French missionary Gaubil Antoine1689-1759 who also have a Chinese name 宋军荣Song Junrong and grant him honorary membership). 3. The ” Chinoiseries” craft is to imitate (copy) Chinese products, master the production process and arts and crafts. ” Chinoiseries ” includes literature, art, horticulture, tea art and craft.
    The industrial revolution in the second half of the 18th century technically come from the three sources of China.
    (c) Philosophy
    the enlightenment made “human thought” replace “God’s thought”, which is the premise of western philosophy. “Human thought” got two parts: the Subject, first of all, “innate rights of man” — where does human rights come from? It is not “God”, but “heaven” (Nature, by the Confucian view of heaven); the Object: man vs nature, it is not “God makes all things”, but 人代天工 “man work for heaven” (Book of History· Yaodian 《尚书·尧典》), that means man can replace “heaven” and create like it. Western philosophy is mainly German philosophy, whose founder Leibniz and his disciple Wolff are all based on Confucian Classics (Professor Meng Xiaolu said: “all philosophy is modern things, which is the son of European products flowing out of the Six Classics of Confucianism”). Derrida, a contemporary French philosopher, confirmed that Leibniz used “Chinese characters to express meaning” as the cornerstone of his European philosophy. Let’s see Hegel, the master of western philosophy. As one of the three sources of Marxism, German classical philosophy Hegel, his thought comes from three Chinese sources: first, from Leibniz, Wolfe, Kant to Hegel; second, the Freemasonry thinker Swedenborg who obtained Chinese wisdom from the Swedish East India company, also that tens of thousands of western scholars, including Kant and Hegel, shared the wisdom; third, Hegel went to Paris to learn Chinese wisdom from the Sinologist Remusat who studied Laozi’s Tao Te Ching道德经, and Hegel made a notebook of Chinese philosophy. Hegel once accused one of his friends of plagiarizing his Chinese Philosophical notebook in an article he published. However, Hegel’s own philosophical works, even the system, concepts and terms, are totally applied to Laozi’s Tao Te Ching (such as 有”being/existence” and 无”not being/nonexistence”), but in turn, robber detests the owner – Hegel claimed that Laozi is witchcraft and China has no speculative philosophy. While this western “master of philosophy” took philosophical concepts from Chinese and formed his own conceptual system.
    (d)Economics
    the earliest systematic economics in human society should be 管子Guanzi. BC475-BC221. As the main axis of economics in the history of the world, Chinese traditional economic thought is subject to the harmonious and orderly “Tao”, so it is: natural order (Natural Philosophy) + socialism + free economy (see Dr Meng Xiaolu’s Zhou Li and Dr Li Xuejun’s Ancient Chinese Socialism). The historian司马迁Sima Qian BC145-? laid particular stress on free economy. His works《平准书》and 《货殖列传》covered most of Adam Smith’s categories, such as law of value and laissez faire. Whether Adam Smith’s theory comes from 司马迁Sima Qian has long been debated in west academics. However, it is almost unanimously agreed that Adam Smith inherited and developed the Physiocrat school, and the Physiocrat school took the traditional Chinese economic thought (Quesnay, the leader of the Physiocrat school, is called “European Confucius”).

    End of the lecture
    Find the History of the West in British Museum: Modern West is a “sub civilization” Derived from China — “code of Chinese character” and early modern Europe
    ——-by 诸玄识 Zhu Xuanshi 2019.03.05
    (This lecture translation is almost done by Baidu online translate, simply checked by AnonCN 2020.08.14)

    TBC with other material

  84. Hello Derbs, Convergence indeed!

    I distinctly recall the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 and concluded it was actually a Western style Kabuki theatre and that the West and the Warsaw Pact had reached some sort of political parity or convergence, so that the time had arrived to merge the two political blocks. That it happened under Thatcher’s and Reagan’s watch made it all the more intriguing.

  85. Mefobills says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Quote from video below: I am very disappointed that there are very few people like me who are willing to criticize China…

    Plenty of Serpentza videos on low trust civilization… things like scamming, stealing of children, pick pockets, etc. China has also stolen quite a bit of America’s patrimony, and when this is done it seems Chinese perpetrators have no feelings of guilt.

    The Cultural revolution did a lot of damage to Chinese mores.

    By contrast, Putin has promoted Orthodox Christianity in the post soviet space. Why? To connect Russians to their past, and to flux the toxins of Soviet Communism out of the Russian people. In my opinion, the Chinese communist party would be unwilling to promote any religion, even one reconnecting the Chinese with their past and giving them moral instruction.

  86. Emily says:
    @anonymous

    including the role of Uncle Sam in stirring stuff up there,

    Th US uses islam to stir up trouble where ever it can.
    Look at the Middle East today.
    It is undoubtedly already funding the Islamic unrest in the Uighurs, just as we now know it was funding the Chechens in Chechnya – including those who murdered hundreds of children in Beslan.
    The Chinese have no intention of seeing a Beslan or a US created, armed and funded Chinese ISIS.
    So I they are pre-empting it.
    I for one don’t blame them….

    • Agree: dfordoom, dogbumbreath
    • Replies: @showmethereal
  87. Wally says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Yawn.
    Not a shred a proof was presented.
    Your sources are truly laughable.

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
    , @denk
  88. Emily says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    So true.
    Point well made.
    Thanks.

  89. @Godfree Roberts

    You are of course writing of Mao before he had seized and consolidated power which you may assume some, being suspicious of you as a CCP still (as to which I assert nothing) will add foolishness to your demerits as they notice the irrelevance of your objections to what Derb wrote.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  90. AnonCN says:

    Other material from 董并生Dr. Dong Bingsheng

    [MORE]

    1.French lingua Franca is a variant of Chinese classic language
    French comes from the Old French of the Crusaders. It was a kind of rural spoken language, one of many dialects. In the 13th century, the vernacular of the French king was French. According to Voltaire’s introduction to Louis XIV, French literature was still some “dirty words” in the 16th century, during French king Francois I (reigned from 1515 to 1547).
    In 1635, Richelieu, Prime Minister of Louis XIII, founded the French Academy, which marked that French began to move forward from dialect and local language to the national and world language, and its literal connotation vigorously introduced “classic Chinese language”. The first task of the college is to compile a French dictionary. From 1635 to 1694, it took nearly 60 years to compile the first French dictionary. In 1670, the Chinese French Dictionary was first published before the French dictionary. At that time, the French language had not yet formed a common language. The French Dictionary was still in the process of compilation, and it did not appear until 24 years later.

    It should be noted that French missionaries successfully introduced Chinese culture into Europe in the mid-17th century and became the center of spreading Chinese culture in Europe. In the late 17th century, French culture prevailed throughout Europe, and Versailles established standards for court etiquette and lifestyle. French novels have become the favorite leisure objects of rich ladies everywhere. Especially in some European countries and regions, the elite are proud to speak fluent French.

    During this period, French also replaced Latin as the language of diplomacy. European history, linguistics, philosophy, political science and economics all originate from France, while the ultimate source of French disciplines is China. There were three waves: around the beginning of the 17th century, Scaliger copied the Chinese chronology and fabricated European chronology, which was the beginning of European history; in the middle of the 17th century, Classic Chinese was introduced to compile French dictionaries; Descartes learned Confucianism to create European rationalist philosophy, and Richelieu introduced Confucian political concepts to establish a centralized political system in the 8th century, Confucianism was introduced and the Physiocrat school was created. Therefore, the 18th century Europe is called “the century of France”.

    The “civilization missionaries” in France, such as Montesquieu, Voltaire, Rousseau, Diderot, elysius, Holbach, Durgo, Quesnay, Condorcet and so on, also called “philosophers” (French: philosophes).

    France was the center of spreading Chinese culture in modern Europe, but the influence of Chinese culture was not limited to France. In the whole modern Europe, it had been widely and deeply influenced by Chinese culture. The successors of these civilizations include Leibniz, Lessing, Herder, Goethe, Locke, Hume, Bolingbrook, Ferguson, Adam Smith, Price, Priestley, and Jefferson and Franklin in the new world.

    “No matter what kind of national and personal characteristics these people show, they are all real children of the enlightenment. The kingdom of philosophers is an international territory, France is only its home country, and Paris is its capital. No matter where you want to go – Britain, the Netherlands, Italy, Spain, the United States – you’ll find them everywhere who speak the same language and are sustained by the same climate of public opinion. They belong to all nations, not to any one country. They openly declare their allegiance to all mankind. ” (according to the Confucian view of the world)

    2. Chinoiseries shape English culture

    There is saying that there were “ancient English” and “middle age English” in the history of English. This is based on forged documents, such as the History of English Church, which was put under the name of Beda in the 8th century, obviously forged from modern times and totally untrustworthy.

    Originally, English belongs to one of many dialects. Because of its association with classic Chinese around the 18th century, it embarked on the road of breaking away from the local languages into the common language.
    Johnson’s English dictionary was published in 1755. This dictionary is a crystallization of English being refined in Chinese. Johnson is a Chinese expert. According to Sir Barrow(Macartney Mission), when Johnson wrote the dictionary, he was “full of Chinese thoughts”.

    Sir Davis further pointed out that tens of thousands of English words and thousands of Chinese characters in Johnson’s dictionary have the same meaning. Also that, Eugenia said: “it is impossible to conceive English without being consistent with the concept of ‘Chineseness’ “; and “the self-contained system of English in early modern times is equivalent to the integration of Chinese concepts “. This dictionary can be said to be a milestone in the promotion of English as a national and international language.
    More be checked up by David Porter’s book: Ideographia, the Chinese Cypher in Early Modern Europe.
    Johnson not only wrote the first large English dictionary, but also was an important editor of Shakespeare’s plays. He personally participated in the forgery of Shakespeare’s plays.
    Forgery narrative of English:
    ancient English: 8th century, History of English Church by Beda, fake book
    middle age English:1150-1500, made-up Magna Carta
    modern English: make up the 16th Shakespeare works in 18th century
    Read the real history of English:
    ancient English: one dialect among other languages in Britain island. Uncommunicable between the north and south in writing in the island.
    middle age English: 1755 learn from the French, introduce connotations of Chinese into English and made it the common language for the island.
    modern English: 19th century Britain Empire absorb many words from other languages in the world,

    When Shakespeare was alive, the written language of English had not yet formed. Shakespeare himself was an illiterate actor. His so-called plays were mostly farce improvisations, and no script was needed. The original Shakespeare manuscript that Johnson used to revise was written in the name of Shakespeare by the “editors” live in the 17th century. At that time, English was in the process of being formed, and the level of the manuscript was vulgar.
    The reason why English is able to stand out from hundreds of British dialects and form a national and international common language is the result of the comprehensive adoption of “Chinese classic language” as its conceptual connotation.

    3. The rapid development of German language

    Engels compared the 16th century German to “the ox pen of Aughias”, which means that the German language as a local language has a dirty connotation. Max said that in 16th century Germany created a kind of “vulgar literature”. Martin Bernard pointed out that before the 18th century, the expression of Philosophy in German was unheard of. Most of the works of the German philosopher Leibniz (1646-1716) were written in French.

    Christian Wolfe, the first scholar to write philosophical works in German, is a disciple of Leibniz and a German descendant of Chinese academic thought. In 1775, the German Emperor Friedrich II complained to Voltaire that German literature was nothing but a “hodgepodge of elongated sentences”.

    In 1870’s, there was a violent literary movement in Germany. Most of the participants were young writers belonging to the civil class. The name of the movement comes from the title of Clinger’s play “Sturm und Drang” (1776), which is also called “genius period” or “genius era” by literary historians.

    Tautz use Goethe’s writings, mostly the expound on Chinese poetry, shows that all German intellectuals at that time were involved in the Chinese culture throughout their territory. Goethe rewrites the Chinese poetry translated and annotated in English, turning it into his own language, thus extending the intertextual transformation chain from Matteo Ricci to German.

    As a result, Chinese literature has become a dual expression of Germany: specific cultural identity and universal knowledge model, which lays the foundation for German world literature. Therefore, German poetry resonates with a wider range of cultural discourses, even surpasses literature itself, and responds to the rewritten Chinese literature in epistemology.

    The latter marked the formation of what we call modern knowledge today – in the first decade of the 19th century, various new disciplines of Chinese style, including literature and philosophy, sprang up in Germany. [as Professor O’Brien said, “the wise men want to establish Chinese style learning on the land of Europe.” ]

    The German Dictionary was compiled by the Grimm brothers in 1838. The original Grimm brothers project is expected to last 10 years, with a Book of about 6-7 volumes. In fact, the first volume was not published until 1854, during which William Green died in 1859, and Jacob died suddenly when he edited the entry “frucht/fruit” in 1864.

    4.A sign of the formation of French, English and German Dictionaries

    Among the European countries, the German nation-state was formed the most recently; correspondingly, the written common language of German was the latest among the European languages. Therefore, the compilation of the German Etymological Dictionary was already in the middle of the 19th century, one to two centuries later than the French College French Dictionary (published in 1694) and the Johnson English Dictionary (1755) in the 18th century.
    1635 Richelieu found the French Academy, plans to make the first French dictionary
    1670 Chinese French Dictionary published
    1693 French dictionary published
    1755 Johnson’s English Dictionary published, ‘full of Chinese thoughts’
    1789-90 Manchu French Dictionary published
    1854 German Etymological Dictionary volume I published, edited by the Grimm brothers, while Goethe transplanted Chinese connotation into German.

    Language is the carrier of literature, and dictionary is the necessary condition to standardize the concept of language. In particular, alphabetic characters, without the lock-in and standardization of the meaning of words in dictionaries, people can not perform extensive and long-term communication, let alone form a literary tradition. From the formation of common written languages and dictionaries in European countries, we can see that their language and literature history is short and embarrassing.

    5.Chinese lose the voice

    Chinese classic words were introduced into France from China (mid-17th century to 18th century), and then spread to Britain, Germany (mid-18th century to mid-19th century) and other countries.
    Then, at the end of the 19th century, with the rise of Eurocentrism, European languages were introduced into Japan on a large scale, forming Kanzi “Yamto Chinese”; at the same time, this “Yamato Chinese” returned to China around the early 20th century.

    What is surprising is that when Kanzi the “Japan Chinese” was returned to China, it was accompanied by the evil “civilization hierarchy theory” which was “created” by the Europeans in the 19th century. In this “civilization hierarchy theory”, the European nations originally belonging to barbarians turned into “civilized nations”; the original kind and simple Native Americans, African blacks and Southeast Asian people were classified as “Mongolia” The uncivilized and uncivilized nations “;

    However, China, the civilization they learned from, has been put into the awkward situation of “semi civilized and mediocre”.

    It happened that, with the introduction of “Yamato Chinese” into “modern Chinese”, the connotation of classic Chinese has been distorted, and the “cultural discourse right” has been lost unconsciously in the process, which result in the whole Chinese social sciences fall into the pattern of “Orientalism”.

    6 other questions
    The question whether Xia culture (BC2070~BC1600) existed or not is a public case since modern time for China. In the modern history of China, there was a trend of suspecting the ancients, which originated in England and influenced China through Japan. British people in the 19th century adopt a new comparative linguistic method when editing the textbook of ancient Greek history. In order to re-edit the Greek history, the British described those stories about ancient Greece as the history results of accumulations, so they can overturn them and rewrite them. This theory spread to Japan and evolved into a colonial view of history. Finally, it affected China. As a result, objectively speaking, such doubting towards ancient times played a role in attacking Chinese traditional culture.

    In fact, judging from the archaeological situation in China, there are a large number of sites at Erlitou site in Henan Province and Dongxiafeng site in Shanxi Province. They belong to the stage of Xia culture in terms of time. They are only influenced by the trend of suspecting the ancient times. Some scholars are reluctant to admit that they have not found the characters of Xia Dynasty. Buy here is a problem of double standards. Is there any evidence of the so-called war of Troy in Troy? No, then why is that Troy? Because in Homer Epic, Troy was burned by fire, and there are traces of burning in a certain stratum of the city site they found, so it is concluded that it must be Troy. Chinese scholars have no objection to this. This is the embodiment of a typical double standard.
    But Chinese scholars can’t be blamed for this double standard situation. Because there is an academic tradition in China, which is called “it is a shame for a scholar to don’t know something一事不知,学者之耻”. There is a saying ” if you have not read all the books, you don’t make an arbitrary alternation 读天下书未尽,不得妄下雌黄”. This is good tradition. So you don’t make any comments on ancient Greece history if you can’t read Greek. Therefore, it’s not your business whether Greek history is fiction or not. Chinese scholars have detailed historical records of their own, so they make a projection and believe that the history of the west is also true. In contrast, it has become a habit for west scholars to fabricate history (can’t blame them either, too much religion, too less history records). While they see the Chinese history, how is that even possible for them? They doubt it and made their own projection.

    END of the translations
    END of the translations
    END of the translations

    If you are illiterate, you can live only the moment being of yourself; if you are educated, during your life time you could also ‘live’ the life of those dead ancestors and future decedents, in the sense that more or less you could see it, feel it, be part of it.
    How history echo itself that during these recent years, Chinese intellectuals and common folks all work hard to learn the west in overall everything, when west common folk feel really good about themselves while its intellectuals and elites start to let their children learn Chinese language…just think of that some hundreds years ago when west intellectuals learn Chinese civilization in overall everything, while the Chinese intellectuals and elites felt super good about themselves refused anything new from outside world and Chinese common folk been totally invisible all the way until everything changed.
    It’s ironically inspiring that people do progress, that at least these days intellectuals and elites learn faster than they used to be, that rather than being invisible, common folk these days do have a voice whether to learn or to feel good.
    Regarding to everything about China, the west narrative since long time ago has been fulfilled with distortions and lies. It has to. Otherwise, how can the west face the true history of their own? Once the big lie been made, it has to be maintained as long as it can, until the day it can’t.
    The dominance of west narrative also comes from the strategic advantages of World Geopolitics in the past 500 years from 1500 to 2000. While the world entering a new ERA when new World Geopolitics advantages shows it sketch as human beings can’t stop the pursuit for tech & science progress that these days we can connect the land and ocean at the same time, one shall hope that (s)he lives long enough to witness the big change of such narrative, which would be really interesting

  91. Ghali says:

    John Derbyshire is a rocks-throwing hooligan trying to demonise and blackened the name of Antifa and BLM legitimate activists. Because John is a bigoted racist. An uneducated Trump servant.

  92. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    No matter that these people don’t know what “the proletariat” means or what “class struggle” is about, they have this in common with the Commies down through the last century: they want to destroy tradition.

    I agree with that. Actually I agree with most of your comment.

    The fact is that all revolutions aim to destroy tradition. Whether they’re political, social, cultural, scientific or technological. The Industrial Revolution was incredibly destructive of tradition. The capitalist revolution was destructive of tradition. So was the scientific revolution. So was the Reformation.

    Very few forces in history have been as destructive of tradition as Woke Capital. And social media has been the most destructive force in all of history.

    Technology has had a devastating effect on tradition. The railways shattered traditional communities. Cars destroyed traditional communities.

    I think it’s an inherent part of western civilisation that we’re constantly at war with our own traditions. Our history has been a long series of cultural and social revolutions.

    But there’s no question that the Woke/SJW/antifa crowd are very hostile to tradition. To a large extent I think that the Woke/SJW/antifa foot soldiers don’t even have an agenda or an ideology. They just want to smash stuff. They’re revolutionaries without an actual cause. I’m not even sure that those funding them have a coherent agenda, apart from increasing their own power and increasing corporate profits. Whatever their agenda is, it sure ain’t communism.

    I do think we need to find a name for these new ideologues. Globofascists perhaps? Neo-nihilists?

  93. Eagle Eye says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    As I have pointed out to GF in the past, this rehashed compilation (“Copyright Godfrey Roberts 2019”) reflects the degree to which respondents have been conditioned (brainwashed) to give the socially acceptable response.

    People in the group of countries from China (84%) down to Germany (43%) have been conditioned to feel less comfortable admitting to reservations about their own government.

    The remaining group from Japan (37%) to France (33%) feel free to take a more cynical view. Ironically, the frank cynicism expressed in those countries reflects a more relaxed approach to narrative control by those countries’ governments.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  94. Dumbo says:
    @Observator

    His established church naturally usurps the state’s rightful obligation to control expressions of antisocial behavior and legitimizes, even demands, that citizens’ thinking be regulated.

    This is silly. He just observed, quite correctly, that you can have sinful thoughts before actually committing any physical sin. It is simply an ordainment for self-control, not for the Church controlling individual thoughts, which is not even possible. In fact even in formal confession, it is not possible to the priest to make public the sins you confess.

  95. Frankie P says:
    @Mefobills

    Mefobills,

    Actually, you’re mistaken here. The Communist Party has facilitated a resurgence of Confucian traditions and thought in recent decades.

    • Thanks: Mefobills
  96. @Wizard of Oz

    Stop bullshitting.

    Anyone who writes, “Mao before he had seized and consolidated power” is entirely ignorant of Chinese history and politics, let alone Mao’s career.

    He was elected to (and unelected from) every office he held, including command of the PLA in the early days.

  97. @Eagle Eye

    If anyone has been entirely conditioned, it is the poorly educated, emotionally immature, and massively uninformed American public.

    To the rest of the world, we’re a joke. A bunch of sore losers in denial about having blown the greatest lead any nation on earth ever enjoyed.

    • Agree: dogbumbreath, Tor597
    • Replies: @onebornfree
    , @Pop Warner
  98. AaronB says:
    @Tor597

    There is a third option.

    Both China and America suck and represent the past.

    Granted America is declining (or developing into something else), but China is a corrupt, 3rd rate clone of ruthless American capitalism at its heyday.

    Nothing to do with Chinese people – the system China represents is not the way forward for humanity. And yes, I have been to China many times.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  99. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “I’m told there is a black market right now for US cash”

    It’s been apparent to me for 30 years or more, that black markets [ i.e. the real free market] are the only sensible and effective answer to many problems worldwide, not just for [fake] mediums of exchange such as the $US.

    Long live black markets!

    Regards, onebornfree

  100. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “Ask one of the more lucid of these antifa idiots what he recommends society be like. He will tell you about how HE would run things. You’ll find out he’s a control freak like all the real Commies have been.”

    “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false- face for the urge to rule it.”- H.L. Mencken

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Agree: S
  101. denk says:

    Derbyshire censored my comments in previous threads, I’ll give him another chance to redeem himself.

    About those Uighurs vidoes [sic],
    it wouldnt pass master in any decent
    court of law, unless of course it happens to be one of those notorious murikkan kangaroo courts.

    As a mathematician, I’d expect Derbyshire to be more rigorous in
    demanding evidence than your run of
    the mill dumbed down murikkans.

    http://thealtworld.com/caitlin_johnston/viral-fake-footage-of-chinese-atrocities-shows-the-power-of-narrative-spin

    • Replies: @Daemon
  102. It looks as if the dirty yellow rats’ lover is finally giving up on optimism and settle back to enjoy the good ole American hospitality with his meloveyoulingtime wife and his “New American” brood … welcome to America!

  103. botazefa says:
    @Tor597

    If you owned slaves, then you are not a defender of liberty

    You have a point, but slavery was a common practice at the time. Had you lived then, and had the means, you likely would have owned slaves too.

    Judging historic mores by today’s standards is silly.

    From where do you hail, stranger?

    • Replies: @Tor597
  104. S says:

    In that segment I mulled over the theories of convergence that had some currency in the early 1960s—convergence, that is, between American capitalism, as then was, and Soviet communism, as then was. I said:

    The rough idea was that the USSR would allow more and more private-sector activity while government power in the West would expand, leading eventually to a situation is which the two systems were indistinguishable. They’d have converged to a common political-economic mean.

    Those ideas weren’t new in the early 1960s, of course. James Burnham had aired them twenty years before in his book The Managerial Revolution, which so fascinated George Orwell.

    Convergence, or rather, ‘synthesis’, indeed…as in the form of a 1776 artificial hyper-individualist Capitalist thesis, a 1789 artificial hyper-collectivist Communist anti-thesis, and modern day 2020 global Multi-Cultural synthesis.

    [MORE]

    As unpleasant as the thought is, people of the United States (and elsewhere) at this late date should at least examine the idea that Anglo-Saxon Founding Fathers of the Capitalist 1776 American Revolution, were also Founding Fathers of the Communist 1789 French Revolution as well, and that a wholly manufactured and broadly controlled (from London) Hegelian Dialectic has been at work in the world ever since.

    It would help to explain much which is otherwise inexplicable.

    Neither Capitalism nor Communism was ever intended to ‘win’ in this global dialectical ‘struggle’, nor allowed to. The ultimate convergance (or synthesis) of the two systems was always intended from the very beginning, over two centuries ago.

    Don’t like this artificial dialectic foisted upon the world?

    Refuse to participate in it is what I might suggest.

    Below is excerpted from a geo-political article published at the outstanding Belcher Foundation* website which examines the intimate Capitalist US role in creating the 1789 French Communist Revolution…you know, the revolution which introduced to the world the concept of ‘the Commune’, ‘counter-revolution’, the ‘political commisar’, the mass arrests and executions of the ‘Great Terror’, ‘Whites’, etc, all of which Soviet Communism would evolve from.

    ‘..first Franklin and then Jefferson went on missions to France where they served as nuclei around which formed a latticework of interrelated or interconnected French revolutionary leaders..’

    ‘As soon as America gained her independence from Great Britain (with substantial French assistance), first Franklin and then Jefferson went on missions to France where they served as nuclei around which formed a latticework of interrelated or interconnected French revolutionary leaders, one of whom was Marie Joseph Paul Ives Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette, who, after fighting in the American Revolution, imported revolutionary ideology into his native France under Jefferson’s guidance and inspiration. Products of the European Enlightenment, Franklin and Jefferson were station masters of France’s American depot, as Lafayette was an agent of the French central station trained on the American revolutionary training ground. Seeding the revolutionary cloud was not a one-sided French venture, however. On the contrary: the seedtime of the French Revolution was during Benjamin Franklin’s ministry to France–and that American was the seed-planter.’

    It’s part of the open historic record that Thomas Jefferson authored, or rather, 1984 O’Brien like, ‘collaborated in writing’, the French Revolution’s seminal ‘Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen’ in 1789. [See Wiki link below]

    Speaking of 1984 and O’Brien…

    ‘I wrote it. That is to say, I collaborated in writing it.’

    1984 – Part 3, Chapter 3

    O’Brien: ‘You have read the book, Goldstein’s book, or parts of it, at least. Did it tell you anything that you did not know already?’

    ‘You have read it?’ said Winston.

    ‘I wrote it. That is to say, I collaborated in writing it. No book is produced individually, as you know.’

    ‘Is it true, what it says?’

    ‘A description, yes. The programme it sets forth is nonsense. The secret accumulation of knowledge — a gradual spread of enlightenment — ultimately a proletarian rebellion — the overthrow of the Party. You foresaw yourself that that was what it would say. It is all nonsense. The proletarians will never revolt, not in a thousand years or a million. They cannot. I do not have to tell you the reason: you know it already. If you have ever cherished any dreams of violent insurrection, you must abandon them. There is no way in which the Party can be overthrown. The rule of the Party is for ever. Make that the starting-point of your thoughts.’

    He came closer to the bed. ‘For ever!’ he repeated.

    *The Belcher Foundation is dedicated to the preservation of the memory and life work of Jonathan Belcher (1682-1757), prominent colonial royal governor, founder of Princeton, and first North American born British freemason.

    https://www.belcherfoundation.org/trilateral_center.htm

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Rights_of_Man_and_of_the_Citizen

    http://www.george-orwell.org/1984/19.html

  105. @Observator

    “But I say to you, that whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.”

    I find it weird to attribute this verse to totalitarianism since Jesus never recommended any punishment to those sinners. Remember that he saved the prostitute from stoning by the mob? Totalitarianism requires rules and regulations of a worldly nature to scare people into submission such as capital punishment, torture and incarceration. I challenge anyone to point out where in the New Testament one can find any such legal endeavours. Jesus was the perfect anti establishment figure who both threatened the Pharisees’s totalitarian law and the usurers that we call today the banksters. Many go as far as interpreting Jesus’s call for forgiveness to encompass the forgiveness of debt in the Babylonian trend of a debt jubilee, something the world desperately needs in these economically troubled times.

    However, when it comes to the role of the church in support of authoritarianism, the story changes as most kings and tyrants have managed to subordinate the church as a pillar of the royal or imperial authority. But the most dangerous development started when the church started toying with the world of banking at the beginning of the sixteenths century culminating into the creation of the Vatican Bank; here Doctor Michael Hoffman managed through many of his books to set the record straight about the difference between Christianity and churchianity.

    • Replies: @HallParvey
  106. Wally says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Trust?

    That must be why there are so many mainland Chinese in the US.

    • Replies: @Daemon
  107. @Tor597

    “Thomas Jefferson the slave holder was a defender of liberty? Lol”

    So if someone owns a shovel or a donkey, can he not also defend liberty?

    Not seeing your point here, mate.

    • Replies: @Tor597
  108. @Tor597

    Nice try, Sigmund Freud, but nope, that’s not the case. I think China is already a superpower*, and whether that works out good for the rest of the world is open to question … a lot of questions. There is something inherently good about white high-trust America, but that will not at all prevent it from going under, as is well in progress. In fact, the niceness has been a big factor in said downfall.

    .

    * There will be a lot more trouble on the way than in the last couple of decades, as they no longer have the huge amount of cheap labor and America will get sick of being the sucker trade and IP-theft wise at some point – see “Big Trouble in Big China”. Then, there’s inflation, big floods, and the panopticon that Mr. D wrote about here.

    • Replies: @Tor597
  109. @Godfree Roberts

    Haha! Godfree, if you are not a parody writer now, you need to think about being one. There’s more credit in it for you than being a ridiculous idiotic liar. Plus, you wouldn’t have to do anything different.

  110. @The Real World

    Right, TRW. It IS the same here, anywhere you get big enough numbers of Chinese people to be un-assimilable. (It’s the same for big enough numbers of ANY people.)

    Go to Chinatown in Flushing (Queens), NY City and eat some real Chinese food. The restaurants openly tell you that they will take nothing but cash. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m a big proponent of “Cash is King!” See “Chipotle – no credit, no debit, and hold the E. Coli” along with Part 2 and Part 3, the latter being right in my man OneBornFree’s wheelhouse. Speaking of avoiding the panopticon, …

    However, these people aren’t all about cash because of legitimate concerns about society, and the Orwellian State coming. They just want to avoid paying taxes. Now, I’m all about avoiding paying taxes too, especially to the City of New York, but this is nothing but greed and selfishness. You think about how they get away with writing “Cash only” on paper posted the walls, but they’ve got to have corrupt officials on their side, with bribes involved, looking the other way. You know NYC government needs that sales/restaurant/income/whatever tax SO BAD.

    We are importing low-trust societies right into our countries, along with (the latter is Sweden, THIS TIME) importing civil wars, lock stock, and barrel.

    • Agree: Emily
    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  111. FRITZ says:

    Hell yeah love seeing Derbyshire back on Unz.

  112. @Tor597

    “I’m gonna own slaves but I’m against it and when I die they’re all free.” was a common sentiment.

  113. Trinity says:
    @Anon

    We had to read 1984 in the 10th grade. Of course that was back in 1977 and even then “skoo” was in bad shape, especially a 35-40% Black public “skoo” in JawJuh.

    I think we were required to read the FICTIONAL, “To Kill A Mockingbird” in the 8th grade if I remember right. Surprisingly, they didn’t bash Whitey bad enough to make it mandatory back then to read, “Uncle Tom’s Cabin.”

  114. Trinity says:

    Love the picture that accompanies the article. You show a regular looking, clean cut, White dude with a pair of working man’s hands holding a brick. Well at least the brick and the hoodie are accurate. Most of the Antifa dweebs have small hands that probably lack the grip strength to squash a banana.

    The French Revolution
    The Russian Revolution
    and now
    The Revenge Of The Nerds ( America 2020)

  115. The difference is that while China is still for the Chinese, ‘Murica is now against the ‘Muricans while being for everyone else—although the lower your average IQ and the higher your tendency toward criminal and anti-social behavior, the more ‘Murica is for you. That’s why the US will soon crumble while China will endure, as it has endured for 7,000 years.

  116. It’s time to separate.

    Nov 4th.

  117. @Achmed E. Newman

    The US is now BLMistan. As its major cities have already been, it’s fated to be run into the ground by Blacks, in theory as punishment for having once allowed slavery but in reality for ending slavery and declaring Blacks “equal”. Given that reality, a concept as esoteric as “privacy” will be an irrelevance. The network of street cameras will soon stop working, just like the Congolese railways did after the Belgians left. On the other hand, BLM thugs will be able to come your into house and take your things and ravish your woman. No “advantage America” because no America.

    • Replies: @Ragno
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  118. Daemon says:
    @Wally

    What makes you think those two are related?

    • Replies: @Wally
  119. Daemon says:
    @denk

    He needs to be able to put food on the table somehow~

    • Replies: @denk
  120. “Not much happens in public nowadays that isn’t recorded by security cameras or someone’s smartphone.”

    And yet presumably the most secure building in the world, the Pentagon, could only capture three or four freeze frames of its attack from a very low-res camera at a parking lot gate. And in a city that records every public movement everywhere, no video whatsoever of Stephen Paddock hauling his arsenal into the MGM Grand.

    No video of Sandy Hook. Or Parkland. Or Borderline in Thousand Oaks. Or Ft. Hood. Or of Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik at the San Bernardino Inland Regional Center.

    Our panopticon doesn’t seem to want to capture our false flags. At least, that’s their story and they’re sticking to it.

  121. @Achmed E. Newman

    Wouldn’t it be simple and effective to require all restaurants and cafes that only take cash or offer more than 2 per cent discount for cash to have a complete coverage of payment transactions by CCTV?

  122. Anonymous[204] • Disclaimer says:

    This is an old cultural difference which people have noted for centuries: Westerners care more about strangers than Asians, and Asians care more about relatives than Westerners.

    Westerners are horrified by the indifference Asians show towards the sufferings of strangers, while Asians are horrified by the callous way Westerners treat their relatives, especially parents. Each considers the other’s behavior barbaric.

    The ‘high trust’ thing ties into this. Asians trust their relatives and close friends and are suspicious of everybody else. Westerners are much more trusting of strangers, which is considered foolishness by Asians.

    • Replies: @d dan
  123. @animalogic

    I’m getting whiplash from your comment. Paragraph 2:

    “antifa are an almost formless mob (blob ?), united by nothing more than social justice jargon & a “membership” heavily drawn from the lumpen proletariat … we are dealing with — at best – useful idiots. More likely, an assorted ragbag of apolitical scumbags out for cheap thrills & cheap larceny.”

    But in Paragraph 4:

    “we have the appearance of a spontaneous Mob, behind which lurk much larger players, players with deep pockets & long considered strategies & a willingness to use violence.”

    Which is it? Useful idiots or a planned strategic overthrow of the United States of America? Considering the tactical placement of bricks on protest routes, stand-down orders to LEO, and immediate and limitless bail money and legal defense, my money’s on the latter.

    Unfortunately for us all, Charlottesville turned out to be the formless blob.

    • Replies: @Notsofast
  124. @Observator

    The author of Matthew in 5:28 attributes these words to Jesus, “But I say to you, that whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart.”

    The author of Matthew was who? Was it somebody called Matthew?

    This is hearsay thirdhand. Lust is a natural human condition. Without lust the human race ceases to exist. Declaring lust to be a sin (assuming that adultery is classified as such) seems to be total rejection of something made by God. A characteristic of most life on Earth.

    Lust is the most basic of all human motives with the exception of self preservation. Sometimes even that. The Black Widow spider comes to mind.

    We can accept this at face value and make the assumption that Jesus was rejecting God’s design or we can assume that Matthew misheard or that he deliberately twisted what he heard, or that the author of Matthew was mistaken.

    Today, with all the modern equipment available, we still have problems communicating the truth of events. How much more difficult was it to transfer the words of Jesus from person to person, language to language, country to country. Without error.

  125. @Godfree Roberts

    C’mon, don’t pretend to be that thick, though there is a UR constituency for it. Your “in the early days” makes it a bit hard for you to pretend not to see that I was making a distinction- a valid distinction – between his (and the CCP’s) 1945 to 1949 power and his post-1949 situation.

    Apart from that I note that Stalin and Hitler were pretty good at winning elections too, and Hitler also lost support “in the early days”.

  126. @Joe Levantine

    However, when it comes to the role of the church in support of authoritarianism, the story changes as most kings and tyrants have managed to subordinate the church as a pillar of the royal or imperial authority.

    It’s a symbiotic relationship. They help each other maintain control of the money flow. Taxes. Tithes. They are the same thing. One gets you paved roads, schools, and police protection. The other gets you eternal life. Amen.

  127. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Godfree Roberts

    So fuck off to China, moron.

    No regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  128. Mefobills says:
    @AaronB

    There is a third option.

    Both China and America suck and represent the past.

    There is no third option. The only type of economy shown by history to work is “mixed economy.”

    China uses industrial capitalism, where the State has sovereign control over money/capital. Chinese leaders don’t allow capital to elevate itself over the sovereign.

    Today’s U.S. is a mixed economy, which uses finance capitalism. Finance capital DOES maneuver the polity, as its money/capital is over the sovereign. Hidden plutocracy of string pullers maneuver and votes don’t matter.

    The U.S. past was always a war between British/Jewish Malthusian creditors and American system credit.

    Malthusian/Jewish type creditors wanted to enclose the lands, privatize the money, take rents and unearned income, and operate the usury mechanism to self aggrandize. These creditors also want to war with other nations while inviting in their labor (for cheap wages). Invade and Invite. Pay off expanding finance debt claims no matter what.

    The American System was to channel or guide state credit (along with some private credit) into production modes to then increase scientific and industrial capability. Improvement in natural production pays off expanding debt claims while improving the condition of labor with better health and public education.

    China has adopted the American System, now called Industrial Capitalism. China has state banks that channel state credit into the commons and to build out industry.

    Nobody can argue that China’s growth has been extraordinary, even despite their wrongheaded sneaky methods of stealing America’s patrimony (along with Wall Street’s help.)

    The Jewish Method adopted by England post 1694 is finance capitalism. Finance Capitalism won out fully in America by 1912. Finance Capitalists overcame the American System by using sneaky duplicitous methods including owning and maneuvering the press, and using compromat on Senators.

    American’s have amnesia and don’t know their past. The U.S. got wealthy behind tariff walls and operating the American system.

    Hudson’s on Peshine Smith explains some of this American System history:

    https://michael-hudson.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Hudson-Michael-E-Peshine-Smith-A-Study-in-Protectionist-Growth-Theory-American-Sectionalism.pdf

    The American System started in Massachusetts Bay by John Winthrop and others, then was adopted by Franklin in Pennsylvania Colony and then spread to other colonies when they emitted Bills of Credit and stopped using Bank of England money. These Bills of credit channeled toward industry and the commons, hence industrial capitalism.

    The Colonial Script was demonetized by King George, which began the Revolutionary War. The BOE Jewish Malthusian’s were whispering in King George’s ear.

    The entire history of America beginning in the Colonial Period was a war between finance capital and industrial capital. George Washington used American System to get the country going by building out canals and infrastructure using sovereign credit, not borrowed gold from England. John Quincy Adams was a full throttle American System president. Many later presidents who advocated against Malthusian Jewish finance capital were assassinated.

  129. denk says:
    @Daemon

    Paul Craig Roberts

    Anyone who still beleives in anything coming from the [[[five liars]]] gotta be either very stupid or insane.

    John Derbyshire

    China is the land of lies

    [sic]

    One of them is lying 😉

  130. Mefobills says:
    @Mefobills

    Addendum:

    Chinese use mixed economy and industrial capital via their state banks. There are some private banks lower down in the system, and they have to be reigned in from time to time, especially when they blow property bubbles. A property bubble is now threatening China, and China will have to learn how to release debts, otherwise young couples will be priced out of housing.

    China can release debts because many of the debt instruments are housed in China’s state banks.

    America is a mixed economy with finance capital. Finance Capital distributes the debt instruments into “markets” making it difficult for the law to access said instruments and erase. Also, these debt holders are the plutocracy and hence are the government. So, why would they erase themselves?

    It is better to war with China than give up the easy plutocratic gibs, right? Destroy America from inside and out.

    The internal enemy is much to be feared.

    • Replies: @CMC
  131. Wade says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I agree and I can relate. I live in Arkansas… which according to other articles on this website is higher in crime because southerners are worse than northerners or some such…

    My wife left her almost brand new iPhone in the shopping cart she had been using in the middle of the parking lot of Walmart.

    I rushed back for her and inquired at the service desk. Sure enough it was there waiting for us. Who had found it? A black lady found it in the middle of the lot, and it was being held for us by another black lady at customer service. Granted, I live in a nice town but it was very nice of them and I was extremely thankful.

  132. Mefobills says:
    @onebornfree

    Godfree has not proven himself as a moron, but the opposite. He posts facts to bolster his position.

    You can have polite disagreements with others based on interpretation of facts. Godfree looks at data and makes conclusions… what is wrong with that?

    A moron is more likely someone like you who has a proven inability to learn. A moron is somebody who clings to wrong headed libertarian shibboleths.

    Also, nobody cares about your regards. That is you elevating yourself in your own eyes. In a blog forum, the only thing that matters is the strength of your argument. Ad-hominems are not arguments.

    • Agree: dfordoom, GeeBee
  133. denk says:
    @dr death

    Trusting your government isn’t advisable.

    Tell that to the murikkans…the perfect sheeples since 1785.

    Truman

    ‘How do we get the peasants to fall in line’

    Sen Vandenberg

    ‘Piece of cake sir,
    All we have to do is….scare the fuck outta the poor dears’

    There’s a Russkie under your pillow !

    Moslems hate our way of life !

    The chicoms are out to destroy USA, !

    gET your ….
    Certificate Of Vaccins ID !

    Works like a charm…..since 1785

    https://thediplomat.com/2019/07/the-us-scare-campaign-against-china/

  134. AaronB says:
    @Mefobills

    Thanks.

    You may be right if we stay within the confines of capitalism. My point was that both America and China focus intensely on profit and have systems that are very ruthless towards those that don’t succeed. You didn’t mention all the broken and washed up people the Chinese system produces, and the injustices and heartbreak, thefts and exploitation.

    Both systems also are authoritarian with the state seeking total monitoring and control over the individual – with China’s easily much worse in this regard, with its level of camera saturation, social credit score, and brutal police enforcement.

    I think the next stop forward for humanity is post-capitalism – a society that does not focus entirely on profit and is not ruthless and is not obsessed with control.

    In this quest, China offers nothing and is no alternative to America. Just another, in many ways more brutal, version.

    I also think the future us away from large, controlling entities.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
    , @onebornree
  135. @SafeNow

    anti-meritocracy, coupled with the left’s importing tens of millions of political reinforcements, have perhaps created a situation that defies historical or literary comparison.

    Anti-meritocracy is _exactly_ why most of the “developing countries” never develop.

    The smart kid is the tribe is quietly murdered in the jungle before he can challenge the Chief and Witch-Doctor’s monopoly on power.

  136. bob jones says:
    @anon

    so you’re saying we have too many jews and blacks?

  137. @Achmed E. Newman

    I know the Cold War has been over for 30 years, Mr. Doom (though someone should tell the Neocons that). This isn’t about Russia or China as enemy countries. This is about the internal enemies in lots of countries, but most especially America at this stage. I will continue to call them Commies, as I have the same kind of hatred toward them as I do toward the Commies of old. If you’ve got a better name, knock yourself out.

    You’re an old man filled with hate. The enemy you are talking about now are called “Globalists”.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  138. denk says:
    @VinnyVette

    FUKUS = F UK, US.

    I didnt invent that one, its from Deb of MOA, but offhand I could think of dozens of reasons for that F .

    Exhibt A
    http://www.us-uk-interventions.org/index_frames.html

    Exhibit B
    Something personal for Chinese…
    1965 genocide and 1998 mass rapes in Indon,.
    Courtesy of fukus.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-21/1965-indonesian-mass-killings-were-crimes-against-Humanity/7647274

    fucking China/

    Such venom.

    GImme one good reason
    JUST ONE

  139. d dan says:
    @Anonymous

    “Asians trust their relatives and close friends and are suspicious of everybody else. Westerners are much more trusting of strangers, which is considered foolishness by Asians.”

    While your analysis is slightly more indepth than Achmed E. Newman’s (and several others’), it is still touching only on the surface of the Chinese thinking.

    The fact that Asians (i.e. Chinese-influenced societies in East Asia) care their relatives/close friends more than strangers has nothing to do with trust or trust factor in the society. It has its deeper ancient rationale. Over 2000 years ago, Mencius (the most famous follower and thinker of Confucianism) counselled (roughly translated):

    “improve upon yourself first, then manage your family, then govern your state; that is the only way to bring justice and help the world” 修身 齐家 治国 平天下

    So, as the Chinese becomes more wealthy, developed and secured, I believe their care will radiate outward to include the strangers – nothing in their teaching precludes the strangers – they just have to come later. We already see some of these trends in the national level from the Chinese government (e.g. China is the largest contributor of UN peace keeping force. China also promises to make its Covid-19 vaccine free for all nations, etc). I also see numbers to support these at many local levels. That is the only logical and effective path of progress.

    To forcefully state the converse, if you are just a piece of ignorant shit, stop trying to spread democracy to the Middle East or fighting for the Uighurs human rights – your efforts and zeal are likely doing more harms than goods (as demonstrated amply in the colored revolutions that US created). I believe there are similar thinking in the West (e.g. “charity starts at home”). Unfortunately, modern Western culture has less fidelity to their own ancient wisdom, which let to utter hubris to “save the world” without even knowing themselves (e.g. writing “all men are created” while kidnapping thousands of slaves from another continents).

    So, stop the hypocrisy of superiority and learn from the Chinese (or if you don’t like that thought: learn from your own WHITE ancestors).

    • Replies: @Notsofast
  140. Mefobills says:
    @AaronB

    I think the next stop forward for humanity is post-capitalism – a society that does not focus entirely on profit and is not ruthless and is not obsessed with control.

    The step forward is an evolution of Industrial capitalism into Douglas Social Credit.

    The step beyond that is Jubilees in accordance with Jesus’ teachings.

    The U.S. and the West is behind China and may have a fatal roadblock. That roadblock is a finance plutocracy which will cling onto power no matter what, as there are no downsides to being hidden rulers.

    Sovereign money + Douglas Social Credit + Jubilees = balanced civilization.

    Douglas Social Credit is an advanced form of industrial economy, which injects debt free money into the base of the population (families) and into the price system. The price system is complicated and beyond scope of a blog. The injections deal with the “gap” which should be well known by the educated classes, but isn’t. Clown world makes sure lumpenproletariat don’t know things that matter.

    Money is still a great invention of man for distributing wealth. Money prices are still a good way for establishing value. Money has to be fixed.

    The problem is what lies between people’s ears.

    The construct of finance capitalism that began in England in 1694 has to be undone. This construct includes false judeo-christian religion, false Talmudic Religion, private corporations creating money as credit, and stock owned corporations.

    Stock of companies is onsold into markets, and hence an abstraction like markets and absentee voters (owners of stocks) determine the output of society.

    Any voters for companies has to be the employees who are vested with their life energy, not the invisible stock owners.

    The problems that manifested in 1694 may be insurmountable for the West, but China has a fighting chance.

  141. @Observator

    “Jesus explicitly states that thinking about committing a sin is the same thing as actually doing it”

    No he doesn’t. While it’s a fault, committing a sin in your heart is NOT the same as committing the sin in meatspace.

  142. CMC says:
    @Mefobills

    It is better to war with China than give up the easy plutocratic gibs, right? Destroy America from inside and out.

    It’s like that movie…

    “….And then finally, when there’s nothing left, when you can’t borrow another buck from the bank or buy another case of booze, you bust the joint out. You light a match.”

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  143. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:

    “We could do worse, I guess; but I shall mourn the loss of our old liberties.”

    Sorry to read these words of capitulation. Sickened.

    Mr. Derbyshire must know who steals the sovereignty of both countries ongoing and takes a mile for every inch given – ongoing?

  144. @HallParvey

    “We can accept this at face value and make the assumption that Jesus was rejecting God’s design or we can assume that Matthew misheard or that he deliberately twisted what he heard, or that the author of Matthew was mistaken.”

    These are our choices?! Oy vey!!

    You win. The Bible’s a fraud. Feel better?

    Or maybe you’re arguing for us to accept your lustful characteristics and behavior? You’re timing’s not the greatest what with #MeToo and all, but whatever. You Lothario.

    Is your faith (or lack thereof) predicated on the authenticity of an antediluvian Matthew? Then one could assume it’s built on a foundation of sand, blown away with the next BLM or Antifa or Occupy Wall Street wind. All those guys mock Jesus.

    Believing what the Kool Kids believe isn’t as revolutionary as you may think.

    • Replies: @HallParvey
  145. onebornree says: • Website
    @AaronB

    Like most here, neither of you two clowns apparently have any idea of what capitalism actually is. Hint: its got nothing to do with the state. Fuck the state. State “capitalism” whether in China or the US [or elsewhere] is a contradiction in terms designed to obfuscate and steer the average know-nothing dumb-ass towards his/her tacit approval of even more socialism/communism/fascism/ collectivism [or whatever else you wish to call it], i.e towards even more state interference in markets and even less freedom for business owners and their customers. The only truly free capitalist markets these days are the so-called “black” markets. All others are either “grey” or full on state socialist [i.e fake “capitalist”] markets.

    Get a clue.

    No regards, onebornree

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  146. Herald says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    You need to get out more and then have a good look around.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  147. @d dan

    You can’t deny that China is still mostly focused on the Money God. Such a society can become low crime, which is great, but to be high-trust in the European sense is doubtful.

    • Replies: @d dan
  148. Mefobills says:
    @CMC

    ….And then finally, when there’s nothing left, when you can’t borrow another buck from the bank or buy another case of booze, you bust the joint out. You light a match.”

    Finance plutocrats and their retinue, borrow from their owned banks, and then flee to their gated bolt-holes somewhere on the planet.

    Or, they flee to their underground bunkers they have prepared in advance.

    They flee from their own destruction. Try and convince them of their destructive ways, and they look at you with blank fish eyes.

    This is why finance plutocrats are a serious threat, they often are psychopaths. Or they have a money sickness that takes over their brain space. They cannot have too much wealth, the world is not enough. They are more than willing to start wars.

    Modern neo-liberal economics (false economy) teaches something called marginal utility. You can only eat so many hot-dogs, so any more than what you need have reduced utility. No so with those who have money sickness. They want to control hot dog production and own the money power.

    Actual reality is not taught in neo-liberal clown world. The devil hides in plain sight.

    • Replies: @JMcG
  149. @Mefobills

    “American’s have amnesia and don’t know their past. The U.S. got wealthy behind tariff walls and operating the American system.”

    Just as the Japanese, Koreans and now the Chinese have done and are doing.

    This is Eamonn Fingleton territory

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/eamonnfingleton/2013/08/11/now-for-the-truth-the-story-of-japans-lost-decades-is-the-worlds-most-absurd-media-myth/#1f74e7c33fe4

    http://www.fingleton.net/extract-from-in-the-jaws-of-the-dragon/

    [MORE]

    They don’t understand that the Chinese economic system is not capitalism, nor is it converging toward capitalism. China is operating an adaptation of the East Asian economic system launched in Manchuria in the 1930s, perfected in Japan proper in the 1950s and 1960s, and now widely copied throughout East Asia. As itemized by Richard Bernstein and Ross Munro in their 1997 The Coming Conflict with China, features of the Chinese version of the East Asian economic model include a labyrinthine system of trade barriers; an artificially undervalued currency; an industrial policy focused on developing pillar industries and using export subsidies to give them competitive advantage; and pressure on foreign companies to transfer their production technologies.

    In some ways, this approach resembles capitalism–it makes extensive use of markets–but its fundamental logic is quite different. Whereas authoritarian political controls constitute a hindrance to the efficacy of capitalism, such controls are essential to the functioning of the East Asian system.

    Part of the West’s comprehension problem is ideological: American opinion leaders hold as a matter of high ideology that Western logic is universal and destined to sweep the globe. And East Asian leaders have gone to extraordinary lengths to keep Western policymakers complacently misinformed. For good reason. If their model were more widely understood, it would be comprehensively opposed in the West, for like the Soviet system before it, the East Asian model is incompatible with Western capitalism. In fact, because the East Asian model is so much more successful than Soviet Communism, it entails an even greater problem of compatibility.

    • Agree: Mefobills
    • Replies: @Mefobills
  150. Mefobills says:
    @onebornree

    Like most here, neither of you two clowns apparently have any idea of what capitalism actually is. Hint: its got nothing to do with the state.

    You continuously show off that you are a little bit “tarded.”

    There is no “capitalism,” there are different forms of capitalism, and your not properly defining terms is a form of dissimulation… lying by obfuscation.

    There obviously is a state form of capitalism, where the state channels its own “state credit” into modes of production.

    The U.S. got its start using this form of state capital. Why are you anti-american?

    Being a libertarian-tard means that you are for usury, unearned income, and for hidden oligarchs to form combines to then dispossess people of their birthright. Private banks are free to create their credit and not the state, right?

    Thomas Jefferson:

    “I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies,” Jefferson wrote. ” If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around(these banks) will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
    “The issuing power of currency shall be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”

    Restoring it to the people, means restoring it to their “king” or representatives who were voted into that role. China has firm sovereign control over their money power.

    Libertarianism is low IQ apologetics for finance capitalism.

  151. @anon

    In any case, I don’t see how anybody can put any faith in a video, an anonymous video at that! How long would it take a small Hollywood studio to knock up a video of handcuffed, blindfolded, Uyghurs being loaded into cattle trucks? Who can doubt that there would be a good market for such an item? What proof is there that it was taken in Xinjiang? Where’the proof that they were not actors? What proof is there that they were even real people and not computer-generated images?

    “Garfield” was made a good many years ago now and no doubt the CGI technology has improved greatly since then.

  152. @Godfree Roberts

    To the rest of the world, we’re a joke

    So you’re still pretending to be American?

  153. Mefobills says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    China is operating an adaptation of the East Asian economic system launched in Manchuria in the 1930s, perfected in Japan proper in the 1950s and 1960s, and now widely copied throughout East Asia.

    Thanks for the links.

    The Manchurian system is the American System of Economy, which wast taken to Japan by Peshine Smith.

    Smith went native, and even wore Japanese clothing.

    The Manchurian railroad engineers quietly and stealthily operated MITI post WW2 up until Plaza Accord.

    MITI gave “credit guidance windows” to private banks within the system. This effectively channeled credit into industry.

    The American System spread, especially after the Civil war. It spread to Russia, where it was squashed by the Bolsheviks. It spread to Germany by Frederick List, and was resurrected by Hitler.

    Imperial Japan ran the system as was taught to them by Peshine Smith, and also what the Japanese learned on their own. Japan was also influenced by Major Douglas and social credit theory.

    It is important that the West, especially Americans realize they have been duped, and are now running the British/Jewish system of finance capital.

    The revolutionary war was fought to divorce America from this form of predatory capital, especially since the Bank of England via King George demonetized Colonial Script, raised taxes, and worked to enclose American lands.

  154. Notsofast says:
    @Nancy Pelosi's Latina Maid

    Useful idiots are clueless and free of charge. You only have to pay the handlers and they dont need to know why they do what they do. These “marxists” are like the sa, what they dont know is that the ss are having their hugo boss uniforms fitted and will then be issued the long knives. That night is coming after they have served their usefulness.

  155. @Herald

    This is going on NOW, Herald. It’s not some science fiction story anymore. This information is from people IN China. It’s been just a couple of years, but no, I cannot go there now. It would be a great hassle – 4 weeks of quarantine total, and I don’t have time for that.

    That just reminded me – for Mr. D: You and your wife had excellent timing in making your trip back in September. That was only 3 months before things started to go downhill (both in China with the Kung Flu mess and regarding relations between our countries). I’m glad you got to go when you did.

    • Replies: @Herald
  156. @Mefobills

    Mefo, you do know that the “Federal” Reserve Bank is private, don’t you? This is exactly what Mr. Jefferson and later Andy Jackson were talking about. Issuing currency is not the same as issuing credit.

    By “usury” do you mean the charging of ANY interest, or just exorbitantly high rates (such as at Title Loan places or via credit cards)? Interest is the price of money. There would be no reason to lend out money at 0 interest unless one is a charity. Charities are great, but they don’t make the world go round.

    I think you need yourself a big does of Ron Paul.

  157. @Rob McX

    I get so tired of this equation of anything the writer disapproves of as “Marxism” or “Communist”! Talk about intellectual laziness!

    It looks like Charlottesville 2017 was the beginning of a successful Communist coup against America.

    I call codswallop on this! A communist coup requires a Communist Party and one thing most people I know agree on, is that the USA has no effective CP. (Even if the CPUSA still exists, it is obviously a “Nothingburger” of a party!) What feature of the disturbances in the USA at the moment qualifies them to be labelled “Communist”? Are the rioters proposing to nationalize the commanding heights of the economy? Are they proposing to run the country through a series of Soviets? Where is the connection between the rioters and their demands (If they have any coherent demands, that is) and what Marx and Engels wrote?

    Doesn’t he have a Secretary of Education to address the totalitarian CultMarx dominance in our universities?

    Again, what is the connection between whatever “CultMarx” is and Communist theory or practice? Yes, admittedly the USSR was hard on “dangerous thoughts”, but it was hardly unique in that and as far as I know there was no theoretical justification for it in anything that Marx wrote. Maybe “McArthyite” would be a more appropriate epithet?

  158. @Tor597

    What hispanics were expelled? Ones that were a part of another nation? Mexico? Yes..but Hispanics that were already a fundamental part of Texas, Louisiana, and further out west? No.

    Hispanics have been part of New Mexico, Texas and Louisiana since before the nation was 50 states. Hispanics were present in Louisiana in large numbers when it was purchased and made part of the nation.

    • Replies: @Alden
    , @Mefobills
  159. d dan says:
    @Daniel Chieh

    “You can’t deny that China is still mostly focused on the Money God.”

    Agree.

    “Such a society can become low crime, which is great,”

    Agree.

    “… but to be high-trust in the European sense is doubtful.”

    Disagree.

  160. Herald says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Agreed that China is indeed far from being the promised land. However, we now have cataclysmic problems at home, which cannot be brushed aside by over-worrying about events in China, or any place else.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  161. @dfordoom

    There is some truth to your statement, sadly.

    Not ready to throw in the towel, however. Just one example…

    https://teleiosresearch.com/effect-christian-persecution-womens-wellbeing/

    Christian principles dating back 2000 years still inform much of government, law, science, medicine, economics, history, philosophy, and public discourse.

    And the Christ of the Gospels still lives in the faith and practice of many followers, many of whom have given their life for Him.

    “And lo, I am with you to the end of the age.”

  162. Dr. X says:
    @Anon

    Getting through and comprehending either of those books would be a high achievement exercise for most American college graduates today.

    They’d never read the books, they’d just Google the Wikipedia pages on their cell phones.

  163. Alden says:
    @Godfree roberts

    Black gangsters using unregistered stolen guns. Are you the unacknowledged bastard of Aussie commie Wilfred Burchett?

  164. Alden says:
    @OscarWildeLoveChild

    Right, Hispanics were never expelled and were not one of the restricted European categories in the 1924/25 immigration acts.

    The border between Mexico and the USA de facto didn’t really exist till the 1950s. The border was very fluid during the 19th century.

    Then 1910- 1935 civil war warlord anarchy bandit rule Cristeros persecution exploded and northern Mexicans just walked over the border into the USA. They were really refugees fleeing the bandit warlords and anarchy. But there was no need for a refugee program, they just came over the border and stayed

  165. Mefobills says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Mefo, you do know that the “Federal” Reserve Bank is private, don’t you? This is exactly what Mr. Jefferson and later Andy Jackson were talking about. Issuing currency is not the same as issuing credit.

    Of course I know that.

    By “usury” do you mean the charging of ANY interest, or just exorbitantly high rates (such as at Title Loan places or via credit cards)? Interest is the price of money

    Usury is a power relation, the taking of rents and unearned income, usually through the money system.

    For example, during the gold era, gold money would be made dear during harvest time. The producers of perishable goods and services would desperately sell their wares at reduced prices. Why? Holders of gold, since it is shiny and does not rust, would retreat and wait out the producers.

    If money supply is pumped to provide for interest payments, for example as was done in Franklin’s Pennsylvania System, then interest is not usurious. If interest drains the money supply, so that creditors can grab debtors real assets (as what is done today) then it is usurious.

    With regards to interest being the price of money; today virtually all money is bank credit, ergo it is the price of bank credit. Bank credit comes into existence with hypothecation. Your talking about currency is a relic.

    Ron Paul is interesting, but like all Lolbertarians he is confused and thinks that money is metal. The true nature of money is law.

  166. @Herald

    Absolutely. I don’t know if there’s a comment on here that says otherwise. Does the article say that in any way?

    • Agree: Herald
  167. You don’t address the JQ, so you’re full of shi*

  168. Mefobills says:
    @OscarWildeLoveChild

    Hispanics were present in Louisiana in large numbers when it was purchased and made part of the nation.

    Don’t think so.

    Go back and look at population statistics. There was never a large “Hispanic presence,” in north america. There were Indians.

    North American Indians would kill Aztecs in an instant.

    Spanish names and locations were due to a small Spanish presence, mostly to convert local Indians to Christianity. This was done with the mission system, where Indians were also taught European methods of agriculture. Most of the missions would divert rivers to have access to water.

    Doing the dirty to then create Mestizo’s was still off in the future.

    It is a mistake in logic to extrapolate today to the past.

    This same sort of logic is used to talk about how rough Negroes had it in North America, when Negro population numbers exploded at a rate higher than that of whites, even with white immigration from Europe.

    Obviously Negroes didn’t have it so bad, or they would not have been reproducing at such a high rate.

  169. Wally says:
    @Daemon

    said:
    “What makes you think those two are related?”

    – I’ll hold your hand and walk you through it.

    – If the Chinese really trusted their government, they wouldn’t leave their government’s area of control, China.

    • Replies: @vot tak
    , @Daemon
  170. Notsofast says:
    @d dan

    “Colored” revolution has come home to roost. “Oh, its funny ’cause it’s true. Oh, hey, hey family.” Book of homer, season 2 episode 13.

  171. vot tak says:

    The photo heading this article brought a smile. A ruddy faced, blue eyed ginger holding a rock. A typical example of the sort of white supremacist who israel/vdare induct into their ranks of knuckle dragging crackers.

  172. bluefire says:

    video clips of Chinese Uighurs handcuffed and blindfolded, being herded into cattle wagons

    Can’t blame them for correctly recognizing a potential fifth column in the works. Islam is younger and stronger than Christianity and if spread would eventually destroy China. If the Christians give them any shit they should put them in their place too. Honestly surprised it is allowed there at all. Need a Moses removal teleportation device .. an immediate poof ..to an Arabian desert.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  173. @dogbumbreath

    Globalists, Commies, International Socialists, whatever, same shitshow, different name. You don’t like people still using the word, cause you’re hoping people forget, is that what it is?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  174. Tor597 says:
    @botazefa

    I am American, born and raised.

    So Jefferson was a defender of liberty for white people. That is all he was. You can celebrate him for that, but he was also a major oppressor of black people.

    • Replies: @botazefa
    , @Trinity
  175. Tor597 says:
    @Johnny Smoggins

    Nice of you to compare blacks to a donkey and a shovel.

  176. Never trust China commentators who haven’t lived there for at least 20 years (preferably 30), haven’t done significant business there (i.e., forget the academics, think-tank researchers, English teachers, journalists, online pundits, NGO wallahs, or marketing consultants), don’t speak, read or write the language fluently, don’t have a life outside of China, and can’t speak in greater depth than to quote dinner-table talk or conversations with taxi drivers and ‘specialists’ with whom they agree. Also, avoid ‘experts’ who mention their Chinese spouse, as though a marital union provides magical insight.

    If you stick to this, you’ll be left with a small pool of sensible people, most of whom don’t spout off in public because they’ve arrived at a point where they understand they know very little. E.g., the more you know about China, the more you realize how little you actually know.

    The major advantage of following my rules for China punditry is you can stop reading most articles about the country right now. If China is that important to you, you probably already know people who fit my description (and thus you don’t waste time on drivel). And if you don’t know people like that, then perhaps you need to concede you aren’t in any position to sort the chaff from the wheat and are thus most likely being shoveled more of someone’s agenda than you would normally want to digest.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
  177. Tor597 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    You think there is something good about white America because you are white. But guess what, every group thinks there is something inherently good about themselves.

    As for China’s economic crash, I would worry more about America. China does not need cheap labor anymore. They are letting their currency rise and going away from mercantilism.

    China does not need America anymore, especially since America is going to lose the reserve currency status and the American consumer won’t matter going forward.

    America is the country most likely to face inflation and floods since America foolishly spent trillions bailing out Wallstreet during covid and America has horrendous infrastructure.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  178. anon[279] • Disclaimer says:
    @dfordoom

    The days when Christianity was a major social/cultural/political force are over. Those days are not coming back.

    After a century of secular atheism, Russia is wholeheartedly going back to the warm embrace of Orthodox Christianity. You were saying?

    • Agree: SeekerofthePresence
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  179. Notsofast says:
    @Joe Stalin

    Great movie. Cafe wha? Where hendrix played with 17 year old randy california in “jimi james and the blue flames”. (Randy texas on drums)

  180. Half-Jap says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Mao was only being gracious to his partner, the Imperial Japanese, who he provided quite a heap of valuable intelligence.
    Mao has instructed his men to only employ 10% of his forces against Japan, most wisely.
    Upon Japan’s surrender, he disarmed the Japanese soldiers and reused those weapons.
    Among other great moves, these have greatly contributed to his victory over the Nationalists.
    The anti-Japanese movies today and propaganda would have flabbergasted him. He even thanked Japan for the invasion, although he didn’t use such term when former Japanese military officers visited him. Neither did he mention anything about Nanjing (which is as fake as what is believed worldwide about Tien an men).
    In any event, you are most honored and welcome brilliant Chairman. You’ve had vastly more sophistication than the adoring sycophants of today.

  181. vot tak says:
    @Wally

    “I’ll hold your hand and walk you through it.”

    I’ll bet you use that line often with the young boys in the park, shlomo.

  182. @Tor597

    OK, I was pretty much with you through the 1st 3 paragraphs, Tor. Then you come up with (to paraphrase) “well, your country is gonna flood too!” and “I know you are, but what am I?” Yes, I expect high and maybe hyper- inflation, as you say. China’s inflation right now is partly due to their pegging of the RMB to the American dollar. (There is more too it, though, as they’ve had major pork shortages, and pork to Chinamen is like beef to Americans.)

    As for the infrastructure, no doubt things will fall apart here until after the reset, but floods? Aaah, well see, the American dams were built by American civil engineers, not the types who built the Three Gorges, with all kind of politics influencing the construction. That huge dam has got problems right now. The CCP will blame flooding on heavy rains, when it’s often that they opened up spillways at night, knowing that otherwise something is going to bust. You can’t go losing face, you know. Do you get any real Chinese news?

    Of course, Americans should worry about our problems (as I wrote to Herald). However, this particular article was about China, so that’s why the discussion in this thread is about China. Does that not make sense to you somehow?

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Tor597
  183. Ragno says:
    @Ray Caruso

    I wish to God you were demonstrably full of shit. Oh, how I wish that.

  184. A note on Orwell and Huxley brothers. They were part of the New World Order British (degenerate) Gentry through Thomas Huxley, H.G. Wells and Aleister Crowley.

    What is portrayed as “prophecy” in their works is in reality what’s planned and/or to come.

  185. Half-Jap says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    After all the postings, I am seriously doubtful Godfree has ever lived in mainland China. His views never meet the lived reality of the people. He loves his charts (and favorite references) though! To which he has few means of validating the underlying data or account for factors that would affect the respondents or authors.
    He is a broken record.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  186. Half-Jap says:
    @Wally

    He also often does not address the issue, but responds with ‘what-about-isms’ and deflects, as seen in abundance in this comment section, with irrelevant points and assertions. Plus, he doesn’t seem to know a single authentic Chinese from the mainland or ever lived there, or is merely a paid or voluntary but thoroughly dedicated advocate/apologist. If only he learns how to be critical of data and sources and methods.

  187. d dan says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “Three Gorges, with all kind of politics influencing the construction. That huge dam has got problems right now.”

    I heard of that about a decade ago. And then again five years ago, and again two years ago. So, please explain to me and the readers what are the problems with Three Gorges this time.

    “The CCP will blame flooding on heavy rains,…”

    Please tell me what is(are) the cause(s) of the flooding if not due to heavy rains.

    “… when it’s often that they opened up spillways at night, knowing that otherwise something is going to bust. “

    Are you suggesting that when the water level goes up, they should not open up spillways, or they should ONLY open during day time?

    “You can’t go losing face, you know. Do you get any real Chinese news?”

    I do get REAL Chinese news. Do you?

    ” so that’s why the discussion in this thread is about China. “

    Are you sure you are having a “discussion”?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  188. Daemon says:
    @Wally

    I asked that question specifically so you’d at least question your own beliefs. Alas, going against conventional wisdom is a bridge a tad too far for you.

    The idea that the chinese settled in your lands because they distrust the government is true, but only for an extremely small demographic that managed to immigrate out during a specific period of time – namely the opening up reforms of the 70’s. That was over half a century ago. It has absolutely no bearing on the people that have arrived recently in the last 2 decades who form the bulk of the settled diaspora.

    These recent arrivals are the petit bourgeoise. Due to the fact they spent their formative years at a time when the US was at the apex of its cultural and economic strength they associate anything western as chic and “high-status”. The moment any of them had to enough money they came barrelling towards the land of milk and honey because that’s what you sold yourself to the world as. Remember, the human brain is wired towards status, not freedom. That is just an irrational western fetish that’s been blown up out of proportion and is now dooming your kind to an ignoble end.

    We’re approaching the tail-end of that demographic. The last of the ex-hillbillies who have scraped enough money to travel internationally, yet are not worldly enough to realize the US is no longer the high status garden of eden that’ll make them the talk of their town – but rather just another soon to be third-world hellhole. Now, nobody under the age of 35 harbors any sort of delusions about the USA anymore. They’ve experienced it all first hand.

    Those ex-hillbillies will learn, in time. Question is, will you?

  189. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Globalists, Commies, International Socialists, whatever, same shitshow, different name. You don’t like people still using the word, cause you’re hoping people forget, is that what it is?

    The problem is that they’re not the same. Totally different objectives.

    You can’t fight a war if you can’t correctly identify your enemy and you don’t understand what your enemy’s objectives are.

    You end being like the French, all prepared in 1940 for a rerun of 1914. They got clobbered as a result. It’s the same with political wars.

    What a lot of people on the Right don’t want to admit is that this time round it’s the corporate sector that is the most dangerous enemy. We’re fighting a class war but this time it’s the upper classes who are the aggressors. We’re not facing the prospect of the dictatorship of the proletariat – we’re facing the dictatorship of the elites. The dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, if you like. Right-wingers just hate admitting stuff like that.

    What right-wingers really hate is having to admit that what they call cultural marxism is actually cultural capitalism. Because if right-wingers admitted that then their heads would explode.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  190. dfordoom says: • Website
    @anon

    After a century of secular atheism, Russia is wholeheartedly going back to the warm embrace of Orthodox Christianity. You were saying?

    No, they aren’t. They have lots of nice new churches. Those churches are mostly empty. Church attendance is very very low.

    The Christian revival in Russia and eastern Europe is driven by old people who grew up under communism. Young people in those places are mostly secular.

    The hard truth is that in any struggle between secularism and Christianity, secularism always wins. I’m not making any judgment on whether that’s a good thing or a bad thing, but Christianity does not have what it takes to defeat secularism. No amount of wishful thinking by Christians is going to change that. People clearly want secular societies. Maybe they’re right and maybe they’re wrong, but that’s the way it is.

    So far no religion has been able to withstand the secular juggernaut.

    • Replies: @Culpepper
  191. @bluefire

    Why didn’t China solve its (only minor) Uighur problem by saying “sorry, our ancestors made a mistake incorporating you mad monotheist primitives in the Chinese empire: off you go, you’re no longer Chinese and good luck to you”.

    • Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
    , @d dan
  192. @Ray Caruso

    I was ready to mash the [Agree] button, Ray, till the last line. Even though a comparison to S. Africa is worth making, the numbers are different here. Once the SHTF, with the country having been run into the ground as you say, but also financially, the stupidity stops. Real American will put a stop to the BLM and Commie antifa nonsense at the point at which there’s not much for most of us to lose.

    My “advantage America” statement was just in regards to the panopticon. Your contention is that a die-verse Idiocracy of a government can’t run something like that which (from what I see and hear) is being quickly implemented in China.

  193. @d dan

    The Chinese news via we-chat says the CCP government has been bullshitting people flooded out downstream from the dam about their opening up the spillway gates at night (when people aren’t observing it). Of course, heavy rain (all around China for that matter) is the root cause, but the construction of the dam was faulty, so they are routing water around to avoid a disaster.

    You can’t fault that last thing, but it’s the lying to people downstream about the spillway by the World’s Most Trusted Government(TM) that I was relating. It’s about liability for the people whose land/homes were washed out below.

    D. Dan, I understand you are a China booster, but you’ve got to be honest about the place too. You don’t write with honesty. I am starting to think your name is not Dan.

    • Agree: Half-Jap
    • Replies: @europeasant
    , @d dan
  194. @dfordoom

    First of all, you never have gotten straight understanding what Capitalism is, D. I gave up back on the Audacious Epigone threads, because “some people just cain’t be reached”. It all made sense once you admitted to being an Australian. You guys have been Socialized since well before most Americans. Young people here now too have no idea what true Capitalism is, as it’s been 25 to 50 years since real free markets in the US, depending on the sector of the economy in question.

    The Corporatism we have now is closest to Fascism (in the economic sense – it’s not about armbands). Corporatism, Globalism, Communism, all of them are about CONTROL. The wide-eyed useful idiots that do the dirty work for the elites may have differing ideologies, but when the hammer comes down, the powerful men who take over couldn’t give a damn about that. They want to control society for their benefit. It is very important to them to take away the freedoms from their citizens subjects.

    Do you really think that the Communists who ran the USSR for 70 years or Mao’s China for 40 were not the ELITES of those eras? No, the Presidents of Amazon, Facebook, Google, etc, are absolutely not the bourgeoisie – they are the ELITES. Whether they want to corner the market on shipments of goods, be the controlled communication mode for all people, control the information seen on the internet, or whatever, they need to prevent competition, i.e. a free market. They don’t espouse the theories of Karl Marx, but they want things to run the way they think the world should run. It’s all the same – freedom must die. The proles must act like the cogs in the machine that they are. Families must be subservient to The State. Communism will then flourish.

    Own it, bitches!

    • Replies: @RobinG
    , @dfordoom
  195. botazefa says:
    @Tor597

    So Jefferson was a defender of liberty for white people

    One might argue that the framework the Founders put in place enabled liberty and justice for all. Certainly in the present Blacks in the US enjoy the same legal rights and protections as everyone else.

    Maybe you could consider showing Jefferson some forbearance? We can acknowledge his flaws while celebrating his accomplishments.

    • Replies: @Tor597
  196. @Nancy Pelosi's Latina Maid

    These are our choices?! Oy vey!!

    You win. The Bible’s a fraud. Feel better?

    Not really. It would be nice to have an unambiguous behavioral road map. Something not open to interpretation. Much more comfortable.

    The Pope, leader of the organization that produced the first bible, agrees with me. There are errors.

    “Recently Pope Francis reportedly approved changes to the wording of the Lord’s Prayer, also known as the Our Father. Instead of saying, “Lead us not into temptation,” Catholics will say, “Do not let us fall into temptation,” according to The Guardian and Fox News. The pope said he thought the English translation of the prayer was not correct.”

    Or maybe you’re arguing for us to accept your lustful characteristics…….?

    Human characteristic. Everyone ever born was the result of satiated lust. But the lust must come first. It is the prime motivating factor. And it is not adultery. Adultery is violation of a marital contract and it is a physical act, not an imagined event. A lawfare violation. On the spur of the moment a person might want to murder someone, but if the event never happens, no crime has been committed.

    Is your faith (or lack thereof) predicated on the authenticity of an antediluvian Matthew?

    Not at all. It’s based on Genesis minus 1.1. Before the beginning, God decided to create what we see all about us, everywhere, including the heavens and the earth. We should take what we know from observation of the natural world before we delve into the shifting sands of the world of the supernatural.

    Human writers have the ability to create all manner of hypothetical imaginary worlds. A recent successful example might be the world of Hogwarts, with it’s attendant supernatural entities. An older example might be the argument over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

    • Thanks: europeasant
  197. @Achmed E. Newman

    What meaning are you giving to “private” that is relevant to any discussion without tinfoil hats? Private profits paid out as dividends or partnership profit shares to private owners.? I think not unless it is something nominal, symbolic and traditiional. Government not making the crucial board and executive appointments and through them the policy decisions that count? No, but give it a try.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  198. @Godfree Roberts

    At the risk of prompting another eruption of confused and irrelevant defence of Mao and of the CCP government of Xi I append the whole of a Wall Street Journal article by a respected Singaporean journalist who was kicked out of China for writing about an investigation of money laundering in Australia by a close relative of President Xi. The points that I wish to draw attention to back up my and other objections to the absurd Godfree Roberts position that Mao was just a fair minded mild forgiving democratic chap. Just look at what Xi is being urged to do *

    in emulation of Mao*

    .

    Apologies for technical difficulties leading to duplicated passages. I hope readers can scroll fast on their phones.

    THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

    China’s Xi Jinping tightens grip on domestic security forces in first broad purge

    [MORE]

    China’s President Xi Jinping has ‘cleaned out’ senior domestic security officials and police chiefs. Picture: AFP

    By CHUN HAN WONG

    11:13AM AUGUST 19, 2020

    A senior ally of Chinese leader Xi Jinping called for a Mao-style purge of China’s domestic-security apparatus last month, saying it was time to “turn the blade inwards and scrape the poison off the bone.”

    The cleansing commenced swiftly.

    Within the first week after the call to action, Communist Party enforcers had launched investigations into at least 21 police and judicial officials, according to a media tally cited by the party’s top law-enforcement commission. Dozens more have since been taken down, including the police chief of Shanghai, the most senior target thus far, and cadres who have won awards for good performance.

    The rash of investigations marks the first time that Mr. Xi has unleashed a sweeping and systematic clean-up of the country’s powerful domestic-security apparatus. His push to forge police, prosecutors and judges who are “absolutely loyal, absolutely pure and absolutely reliable” — as officials running the campaign have demanded — points to thorny concerns that Mr. Xi faces at home even as he seeks to slow a downward spiral in relations with the U.S.

    The rash of investigations marks the first time that Mr. Xi has unleashed a sweeping and systematic clean-up of the country’s powerful domestic-security apparatus. His push to forge police, prosecutors and judges who are “absolutely loyal, absolutely pure and absolutely reliable” — as officials running the campaign have demanded — points to thorny concerns that Mr. Xi faces at home even as he seeks to slow a downward spiral in relations with the U.S.

    Political observers say the campaign demonstrates the pervasiveness of corruption in China’s criminal-justice system, despite a nearly eight-year effort by Mr. Xi to root out graft and build sustainable one-party rule.

    Mr. Xi has targeted senior law-enforcement officials in the past, including retired security chief Zhou Yongkang — who was jailed for life in 2015 for corruption and abuses of power — as well as two vice ministers of public security felled in disciplinary probes over the past two years.

    In launching a wider effort, some analysts say, Mr. Xi appears keen to tighten his grip over agencies vital to maintaining social stability and upholding his personal authority, which could prove critical as he confronts a pandemic-ravaged economy and rising tensions with the U.S. that could kick up social ferment and fuel dissent against his leadership.

    Firmer control over China’s security forces also gives Mr. Xi more leverage as he positions himself to secure a third term as Communist Party leader in 2022, said Wu Qiang, a Chinese politics researcher and former lecturer at Beijing’s Tsinghua University.

    “Xi is especially reliant on this coercive state apparatus, yet also distrustful of it,” Mr. Wu said.

    The rash of investigations marks the first time that Mr. Xi has unleashed a sweeping and systematic clean-up of the country’s powerful domestic-security apparatus. His push to forge police, prosecutors and judges who are “absolutely loyal, absolutely pure and absolutely reliable” — as officials running the campaign have demanded — points to thorny concerns that Mr. Xi faces at home even as he seeks to slow a downward spiral in relations with the U.S.

    Political observers say the campaign demonstrates the pervasiveness of corruption in China’s criminal-justice system, despite a nearly eight-year effort by Mr. Xi to root out graft and build sustainable one-party rule.

    Mr. Xi has targeted senior law-enforcement officials in the past, including retired security chief Zhou Yongkang — who was jailed for life in 2015 for corruption and abuses of power — as well as two vice ministers of public security felled in disciplinary probes over the past two years.

    In launching a wider effort, some analysts say, Mr. Xi appears keen to tighten his grip over agencies vital to maintaining social stability and upholding his personal authority, which could prove critical as he confronts a pandemic-ravaged economy and rising tensions with the U.S. that could kick up social ferment and fuel dissent against his leadership.

    Firmer control over China’s security forces also gives Mr. Xi more leverage as he positions himself to secure a third term as Communist Party leader in 2022, said Wu Qiang, a Chinese politics researcher and former lecturer at Beijing’s Tsinghua University.

    “Xi is especially reliant on this coercive state apparatus, yet also distrustful of it,” Mr. Wu said.

    Retired security chief Zhou Yongkang was jailed for life in 2015 for corruption and abuses of power. Picture: AP

    Chen Yixin, the Xi ally tapped to run the rectification drive, signalled as much. Announcing the campaign at a July 8 meeting, he compared it to the 1942-1945 Yan’an Rectification Movement — a purge that consolidated Mao Zedong’s control over the party.

    Drawing inspiration from Mao’s campaigns, Mr. Xi’s effort features heavy doses of ideological training in addition to disciplinary investigations. According to guidelines issued for a trial program set to run through October, participants must uphold Mr. Xi’s authority and fortify their minds by studying his speeches on governance.

    “The party always explains graft as the result of individuals becoming corrupt,” said Sheng Hong, an economist and former director of an independent Beijing think tank that shut down last year under government pressure. “They don’t acknowledge that corruption is an institutional problem.”

    The Communist Party’s Central Political and Legal Affairs Commission, which oversees law enforcement, didn’t respond to queries.

    An example of the graft that has afflicted China’s criminal-justice system recently surfaced publicly in the northern industrial city of Baotou, where an organised-crime trial has been dogged by allegations of police abuse and other malfeasance that sparked a furore in Chinese legal circles.

    The case centres on Wang Yongming, a 56-year-old moneylender and Baotou native, whom local police allege was the leader of a crime ring involved in loan-sharking, extortion and blackmail. He, his wife and other alleged accomplices were first arrested in April 2019.

    The couple’s daughter, Wang Ran, said in social-media posts and a phone interview that her father was framed by a local police officer who was running his own money-lending business. One debtor borrowed from both Mr. Wang and the police officer, she said, but repaid only debts owed to her father. That police officer tried to extort money from her father, and eventually opened a case against him, she said.

    Some Chinese lawyers say a high-profile campaign Mr. Xi launched in 2018 to curb organised crime has prompted overzealous officials to run roughshod over judicial procedures in a rush to secure convictions.

    Defense lawyers involved in Mr. Wang’s case accused Baotou police, prosecutors and judicial officials of prejudging the outcome at a pre-trial meeting. The local prosecutors’ office said they used the meeting to reach consensus on how to handle some aspects of the case, including whether to classify it as organised crime and how to manage “illegal gains.”

    The defense lawyers also accused Baotou police of accepting fabricated evidence from one of Mr. Wang’s debtors and wrongfully denying bail to the moneylender, who suffers from diabetes and uremia and had undergone a kidney transplant and a leg amputation — conditions that lawyers said should qualify him for bail on medical grounds.

    The law-enforcement commission in the region of Inner Mongolia, where Baotou is located, referred queries to the central commission in Beijing, which didn’t respond to requests for comment.

    The violations continued after the trial began in early July, according to the defense team, which accused the court of restricting public access to the hearings and limiting — without legal basis — opportunities for defense lawyers to speak.

    During a July 11 hearing, the defense accused one of the prosecutors, Li Shuyao, of soliciting and accepting 300,000 yuan ($43,300) in bribes from Mr. Wang’s children in return for helping the moneylender. They sought to play an audio recording that they said would prove their allegation, and demanded that the prosecutor be recused from the trial. The court overruled them, though the evidence was later sent to disciplinary inspectors.

    When one of the defense lawyers, Xu Xin, decided to withdraw from the case out of frustration, court bailiffs rushed forward to try to stop him from discussing the move with his client. A photograph of the scene, showing a group of bailiffs confronting Mr. Xu, went viral on Chinese social media.

    “If I keep working on this case, I might die from anger,” Mr. Xu recalled in a social-media post recounting the incident. Mr. Xu, who later succeeded in withdrawing, declined to comment.

    After the defense lawyers went public with the allegations of judicial misconduct in an unusually concerted publicity effort, Chinese legal circles erupted with angry calls for government action.

    Days later, Baotou authorities opened investigations against the prosecutor accused of soliciting and accepting bribes and the police officer accused of framing Mr. Wang. The prosecutor, whom local authorities recently cited as an “honest cadre,” and the police officer couldn’t be reached for comment.

    Political observers say the campaign demonstrates the pervasiveness of corruption in China’s criminal-justice system, despite a nearly eight-year effort by Mr. Xi to root out graft and build sustainable one-party rule.

    Mr. Xi has targeted senior law-enforcement officials in the past, including retired security chief Zhou Yongkang — who was jailed for life in 2015 for corruption and abuses of power — as well as two vice ministers of public security felled in disciplinary probes over the past two years.

    In launching a wider effort, some analysts say, Mr. Xi appears keen to tighten his grip over agencies vital to maintaining social stability and upholding his personal authority, which could prove critical as he confronts a pandemic-ravaged economy and rising tensions with the U.S. that could kick up social ferment and fuel dissent against his leadership.

    Firmer control over China’s security forces also gives Mr. Xi more leverage as he positions himself to secure a third term as Communist Party leader in 2022, said Wu Qiang, a Chinese politics researcher and former lecturer at Beijing’s Tsinghua University.

    “Xi is especially reliant on this coercive state apparatus, yet also distrustful of it,” Mr. Wu said.

    Retired security chief Zhou Yongkang was jailed for life in 2015 for corruption and abuses of power. Picture: AP

    Chen Yixin, the Xi ally tapped to run the rectification drive, signalled as much. Announcing the campaign at a July 8 meeting, he compared it to the 1942-1945 Yan’an Rectification Movement — a purge that consolidated Mao Zedong’s control over the party.

    Drawing inspiration from Mao’s campaigns, Mr. Xi’s effort features heavy doses of ideological training in addition to disciplinary investigations. According to guidelines issued for a trial program set to run through October, participants must uphold Mr. Xi’s authority and fortify their minds by studying his speeches on governance.

    “The party always explains graft as the result of individuals becoming corrupt,” said Sheng Hong, an economist and former director of an independent Beijing think tank that shut down last year under government pressure. “They don’t acknowledge that corruption is an institutional problem.”

    The Communist Party’s Central Political and Legal Affairs Commission, which oversees law enforcement, didn’t respond to queries.

    An example of the graft that has afflicted China’s criminal-justice system recently surfaced publicly in the northern industrial city of Baotou, where an organised-crime trial has been dogged by allegations of police abuse and other malfeasance that sparked a furore in Chinese legal circles.

    The case centres on Wang Yongming, a 56-year-old moneylender and Baotou native, whom local police allege was the leader of a crime ring involved in loan-sharking, extortion and blackmail. He, his wife and other alleged accomplices were first arrested in April 2019.

    The couple’s daughter, Wang Ran, said in social-media posts and a phone interview that her father was framed by a local police officer who was running his own money-lending business. One debtor borrowed from both Mr. Wang and the police officer, she said, but repaid only debts owed to her father. That police officer tried to extort money from her father, and eventually opened a case against him, she said.


    THEAUSTRALIAN.COM.AU1:51

    Media billionaire arrested as China cracks down on Hong Kong democracy

    Hong Kong billionaire and media tycoon Jimmy Lai has been arrested as China cracks down on political dissent under a new security law it passed i…

    Some Chinese lawyers say a high-profile campaign Mr. Xi launched in 2018 to curb organised crime has prompted overzealous officials to run roughshod over judicial procedures in a rush to secure convictions.

    Defense lawyers involved in Mr. Wang’s case accused Baotou police, prosecutors and judicial officials of prejudging the outcome at a pre-trial meeting. The local prosecutors’ office said they used the meeting to reach consensus on how to handle some aspects of the case, including whether to classify it as organised crime and how to manage “illegal gains.”

    The defense lawyers also accused Baotou police of accepting fabricated evidence from one of Mr. Wang’s debtors and wrongfully denying bail to the moneylender, who suffers from diabetes and uremia and had undergone a kidney transplant and a leg amputation — conditions that lawyers said should qualify him for bail on medical grounds.

    The law-enforcement commission in the region of Inner Mongolia, where Baotou is located, referred queries to the central commission in Beijing, which didn’t respond to requests for comment.

    The violations continued after the trial began in early July, according to the defense team, which accused the court of restricting public access to the hearings and limiting — without legal basis — opportunities for defense lawyers to speak.

    Xi’s move has been likened to that of Chinese ruler Mao Zedong between 1942 to 1945. Picture: AFP

    During a July 11 hearing, the defense accused one of the prosecutors, Li Shuyao, of soliciting and accepting 300,000 yuan ($43,300) in bribes from Mr. Wang’s children in return for helping the moneylender. They sought to play an audio recording that they said would prove their allegation, and demanded that the prosecutor be recused from the trial. The court overruled them, though the evidence was later sent to disciplinary inspectors.

    When one of the defense lawyers, Xu Xin, decided to withdraw from the case out of frustration, court bailiffs rushed forward to try to stop him from discussing the move with his client. A photograph of the scene, showing a group of bailiffs confronting Mr. Xu, went viral on Chinese social media.

    “If I keep working on this case, I might die from anger,” Mr. Xu recalled in a social-media post recounting the incident. Mr. Xu, who later succeeded in withdrawing, declined to comment.

    After the defense lawyers went public with the allegations of judicial misconduct in an unusually concerted publicity effort, Chinese legal circles erupted with angry calls for government action.

    Days later, Baotou authorities opened investigations against the prosecutor accused of soliciting and accepting bribes and the police officer accused of framing Mr. Wang. The prosecutor, whom local authorities recently cited as an “honest cadre,” and the police officer couldn’t be reached for comment.

    President Xi in the Great Hall of the People in Beijing. Picture: Getty Images

    In late July, Inner Mongolia’s top court ordered the trial moved to a new city, while the regional prosecutors’ office lamented that errors in the handling of the case have “severely damaged public trust in the justice system.”

    A senior anticorruption official visited Baotou in early August to review rectification efforts by local police.

    Ms Wang, the accused’s daughter, said the rectification campaign may have prompted authorities to take her complaints more seriously. “I saw a ray of hope,” she said. “They can’t let justice become child’s play, and leave ordinary people unable to trust public servants and unable to trust the law.”

    Some lawyers said the campaign underscores Mr. Xi’s desire to build a more professional justice system and bolster the Communist Party’s legitimacy. Others, however, said they expect little to change.

    The rectification “wouldn’t be of much use,” said a lawyer who declined to be named. “It’s just a gust of wind — gone once it blows over.”

    — Qianwei Zhang contributed to this article

    WSJ

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  199. Trinity says:
    @Tor597

    Hmm, were not those same Blacks being oppressed in Mother Africa before coming here? Of course only those alive back then know the FULL TRUTH, but I will go out on a limb and say Africans enslaved and sold by Africans that were brought to America were more than likely treated better by Whites than their former African slave masters back home. All African Americans today should thank God Almighty that their ancestors were brought to America, otherwise they would be over in the Motherland swatting flies from their faces, living in squalor and not having their asses kissed 24/7/365 by the Jew media and white traitor trash. I don’t think African tribes would fight each other to free African slaves in Africa. Hell, slavery still exists in Africa in 2020.

    • Troll: Tor597
  200. @Wizard of Oz

    The FED is out of control of the US taxpayers and their reps, Whiz, that’s what I mean. Now, I know one could say the whole damn US Feral Gov’t is out of control of the US taxpayers at this point, but that’s another thing.

    The Founders’ idea was that the coinage of money would be by the US gov’t only, not some private board beholden to the interests of the Big-Biz elite. More importantly, though, the US Constitution specifically prohibits anything but … well, here:

    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

    Article I, Section 8.

    Gold, bitchez!

    • Replies: @onebornfree
  201. RobinG says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    What’s your take on BLM and Antifa? (Those anarchists certainly have a fascist agenda of thought-policing and cancel culture.) There are plenty of assertions as to who’s directing/infiltrating the riots. Cui bono from igniting racial tensions?

    Here’s [complete timeline] footage of the incident 2 nights ago that ended in gang assault and attempted murder. Sustained indiscriminate aggression. The white man/woman attacked [by blacks] became catalyst of ensuing violence. It’s now speculated (by another videographer) that the cause of the truck crash was the driver being hit by projectile thrown through his open window.

    BLM PROTESTERS PHYSICALLY ASSAULTING AND ROBBING PEOPLE IN DOWNTOWN PORTLAND
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCKcYSQAP6U&feature=youtu.be

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  202. @Achmed E. Newman

    ” I am starting to think your name is not Dan”

    His name is probably “Hung Too Low” brother of Dum Gai and sister Lei Ying Lo and cousin
    Hoo Flung Dung !

  203. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    you do know that the “Federal” Reserve Bank is private, don’t you? ”

    This is a common misconception. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    If the Fed is truly as private as you believe, why did the government give it an exclusive, by law protected [Federal Reserve Act 1913] monopoly status to fake the national currency in the first place?

    Surely, a private company would be open to free competition from other companies that wish to provide similar services to customers?

    It is a legally protected-from competition, monopoly, just like the government itself and is just one more government agency masquerading as a “private” inc. so that it can operate and advance the governments agendas out in the open behind the false front of being “private”.

    Or maybe your statement was just an aberration on your part?

    Regards, onebornfree

    • Replies: @botazefa
  204. JMcG says:
    @Mefobills

    Those plutocrats with their bolt holes- have they ever read Treasure of the Sierra Madre, I wonder?
    Have they ever seen The Mule? They’ll never be able to close an eye.

  205. Adûnâi says: • Website
    @anonymous

    Why would neo-Nazis oppose sending radical Muslims into the GULAG? Because everything Communists do is bad?

  206. denk says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    this particular article was about China, so that’s why the discussion in this thread is about China. *

    B.S.
    This article is about FUKUS, supposedly converging to the Chinese way [IF ONLY ;-)]

    Of course, Americans should worry about our problems*

    If only..
    YOu should tell that to you idol,
    John [Tibet, UIghur, [sic], HK…] Derbyshire…
    YOur typical anglo hypocrite, he’s full of it.

    I don’t like to see outright big lies stand on here. [sic]

    LOL
    You’r looking at the original B.S. buster of 20+ years standing..

    Who’s the biggest liar of them all, having bombed, invaded [300?] countries on false pretext since ww2 and is now going full retard on China, prepping the sheeples to support another confrontation. ?

    https://www.unz.com/lromanoff/the-anger-campaign-against-china/

    Where’ve you been all these while when we called out the BIG lies…MIA ?

    hMMm, I see you’r only fired up with great fervor whenever G Roberts post something positive about China !

    Mr. Derbyshire could confirm, but I know he doesn’t chime in often.**

    Derbyshire as a mathematician, should know better than to parrot fukus unsubstantiated nonsense on Tibet, Xinjiang, HK,…
    Yet he lap it up with gusto and…..he’s your idol !!!

    Some B.S. buster.

    hehehhehe

  207. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Young people here now too have no idea what true Capitalism is, as it’s been 25 to 50 years since real free markets in the US

    You’re talking about an idealised capitalism of a kind that may once have existed but even you think it doesn’t exist now.

    I’m talking about what we have now. You can call it Corporatism if you like. Or fascism. Or Late Capitalism. Or Globalist Capitalism. Whatever it is, it sure as hell ain’t communism.

    And whatever you want to call it it’s the force behind Wokeism, political correctness, Social Justice and antifa. The crucial point is that these movements are not being promoted by communists. They’re not being promoted by Marxists. Calling these movements cultural marxism is inaccurate and dangerously misleading. Cultural marxism existed (as a theoretical concept) three-quarters of a century ago. It doesn’t exist today.

    Calling anyone you disapprove of a communist is misleading and silly. It’s as childish as liberals calling anyone they disapprove of a fascist or a Nazi. It’s schoolyard name-calling. You might as well call them poopy-heads.

    I get the feeling that to you anyone who isn’t a libertarian must be a communist.

  208. d dan says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “Of course, heavy rain (all around China for that matter) is the root cause,”

    Happy to hear you admit that now. But in your previous post, you state “The CCP will blame flooding on heavy rains”, didn’t you?

    “but the construction of the dam was faulty”

    As I said, I have heard this several times over a decade ago. Some even post “satellite images” of the “damaged” dam. So, can you blame anyone from asking? If you have anything new about the dam, rather than just the empty accusations from the usual media, I am open to hear exactly what is wrong with the construction.

    “D. Dan, I understand you are a China booster, but you’ve got to be honest about the place too. You don’t write with honesty. I am starting to think your name is not Dan.”

    Ahh, ad hominem as usual. Please quote the sentence(s) that I don’t write with honesty.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  209. denk says:
    @Wally

    So you’r like Ahmad,
    another ‘Big LIe buster’ who has no problem with the biggest liar of them all…..the unitdsnake ????

    MIA in all anti fukus big lies discussion !!!

  210. @dfordoom

    I get the feeling that to you anyone who isn’t a libertarian must be a communist.

    It’s just a matter of how far down the road they are.

    .

    PS: I don’t use the expression “Cultural Marxists”. To me, that one is just confusing. These people are destroyers of culture. You’ve got to do that before, you get control. (I’m not saying it’s one big plan either – these types, the useful idiots and the elites at the top, are not smart enough for that.)

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  211. Trinity says:

    Just imagine if it were White Nationalists out on the street doing what BLM and Antifa are now doing. Look at how many innocent people have been physically attacked and this includes law enforcement officers. Do you for one second think that law enforcement and our political leaders would pamper White Nationalists and ALLOW THEM to assault people, beat innocent people severely and even murder them in some cases? Do you think CNN, MSNBC or even Fox wouldn’t be calling for law enforcement and our political leaders to go hardcore on the White Nationalists and implement a ZERO TOLERANCE approach to handling protesting White Nationalists? Of course, the chance of a White Nationalist violent protest happening is about as likely as a snowstorm in Miami in mid-August. White Nationalists violent uprisings or White Nationalists domestic terrorism is about as rare as a man kills shark with bare hands story.

    • Replies: @botazefa
  212. Tor597 says:
    @botazefa

    Its not about the framework.

    Its about Jefferson the man. He owned slaves it is as simple as that.

    • Troll: Trinity
    • Replies: @botazefa
  213. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;”

    Another major [deliberate?] mistake committed by the criminals who dreamed up the US constitution.

    Giving criminals in government the power over what can and cannot be used in free exchange between individuals, and the power to regulate the value of an exchange medium forced being on them , plus the value of “foreign coin” , let alone the power to fix weights and measures” , was , even if done out of total naïveté, [hard to believe], never the less, asking for MAJOR trouble down the road.

    “Everything government touches turns to crap” Ringo Starr

    “The kind of man who wants the government to adopt and enforce his ideas is always the kind of man whose ideas are idiotic” H.L.Mencken

    “Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure” Robert LeFevere

    Regards, onebornfree

  214. @d dan

    The CCP will blame flooding on heavy rains”, didn’t you?

    The flooding downstream from the dams. I should have been more clear especially in talking to a Chinaman who doesn’t intend to understand.

    However, the country has had torrential trains in most of the provinces this summer. That’s nobody’s fault, but my point is simply that China is having a hard time with some big problems right now. That’s not a criticism, but apparently you must defend China even against acts of God (oh, and shoddy construction practices, expected as per the Cheap China-made Crap).

    Now, I only started on this thread because of Mao-sackhanger Godfree Roberts (who does have his own column on unz for it, after all) came on here with more big stupid lies, and I don’t like to let them stand. If he would just write about the splendor that is (part of) modern China, I would read his stuff with more enthusiasm. Mr. Derbyshire knows more than you, I, and especially Godfree Roberts, about China, so why not read and learn for a change?

    .

    PS: Yes, I saw the article at the top, but I do remember that Romanoff is a High-functioning Retard.

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @denk
    , @Half-Jap
  215. @HallParvey

    “Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God.”
    Matt. 5:8 NKJV

    Let the roving eye seek after God,
    And He will find you fallen on the road.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  216. botazefa says:
    @Tor597

    Its not about the framework.

    Its about Jefferson the man. He owned slaves it is as simple as that.

    By your logic it’s no leap to assert that you should give away the rights enshrined in our Founding Documents, such as the free speech you enjoy here.

    I would welcome your silence.

    • Replies: @Tor597
  217. botazefa says:
    @onebornfree

    you do know that the “Federal” Reserve Bank is private, don’t you? ”

    This is a common misconception. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    What kind of nonsense are you selling here. The Fed isn’t appointed or directed by the US government. Their leadership is completely at their discretion. The Chairman is not nominated by the US President. The member banks wholly control the Federal Reserve. Hell, their books are completely private.

    The Federal Reserve is a private consortium of private banks.

    What is your game, man?

    • Replies: @HammerJack
  218. botazefa says:
    @Trinity

    Do you for one second think that law enforcement and our political leaders would pamper White Nationalists and ALLOW THEM to assault people, beat innocent people severely and even murder them in some cases?

    Well… Antifa seems to be overwhelmingly white. Not completely, but mostly.

    One could argue that antifa is the ultimate expression of White Privilege. Something to ponder.

    • Troll: Trinity
  219. Tor597 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Seriously?

    You do know that New Orleans flooded right?

    Not every region faces the same problems though. In California there are fires, Michigan clean water, NY broken down subway systems.

  220. @Tor597

    The Three Gorges Dam is a huge, huge project, with water control for a large important piece of the country. New Orleans levies, yeah, who cares?

    California has always had fires. The problem is that there are twice as many people in the State as in the 1970s, making good property cost more, and forcing more people to build in risky areas. For the country as a whole, it didn’t help that the forest service had a policy of not letting small fires burn out. This meant the fuel was built up for the large fires, such as Yellowstone in 1988.

    Yeah, NY, I don’t care. Flint, Michigan had black city councilmen who made bad decisions about using a water supply that was going to deliver them some lead. Again, I don’t care.

    Where the white people are allowed to run things and do there thing there will (OK, CAN) be nice things. Otherwise, no, it’s going to go bad.

    • Replies: @Tor597
    , @showmethereal
  221. Tor597 says:
    @botazefa

    That doesn’t even make any sense.

  222. @Tor597

    I meant to add this, Tor, after I noted California’s huge population increase (that still gives it something like 30% of the population of Japan in slightly more land than Japan). China’s biggest problem, its huge population in what is realistically only half* the land of the continental US, is residing.

    Again, I’m not putting any blame on the Chinese people for that, even any particular government, as, believe it or not, China had more people in the middle 1800s than the US has NOW. Excessive population is an exacerbating factor for almost any problem a nation may have, other than a war, I guess. America has been very blessed in this sense and would have stayed that way, had the 1965 Hart-Cellar Immigration Act not been passed and border control taken seriously. We’d be still at well under 300,000,000 people and stable, per the numbers I’ve seen (I think it was NumbersUSA).

    The Chinese environment was devastated by the years of hard-core Communism, and even ~15 years ago, what was called a “resort area” caused me to wonder “uhh, why, again?” Over the last few years the people have been taking the care of their environment more seriously. When the Chinese people decide to do something like this, they do it in a BIG WAY. They will/can never have a Yosemite or Olympic National Park, though.

    .

    * If you look at the map of China closely, you see that the western 35-40% of the country is Tibet and Xinjiang, both sparsely populated mountains and high desert. Then, the rest of the country has so many mountainous areas that are not good for much.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  223. @Wizard of Oz

    Unfortunately, it’s too late to clean up our domestic security apparatus. That horse has left the barn.

  224. d dan says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “my point is simply that China is having a hard time with some big problems right now. That’s not a criticism”

    No, you are doing more than that. Don’t pretend you and your comments are objective and neutral. They aren’t. You accuse and insinuate Chinese government of criminal negligence of epic proportion (e.g. “the construction of the dam was faulty”, “shoddy construction practices”), so why are you surprised that you are being challenged or questioned.

    You throw out statements without supports (and yes, I read your last linked article, and several others in your site before this exchange – they are essentially evidence-free and content-light). None of them provide any concrete proof about the “faulty” construction of the dam.

    “but apparently you must defend China even against acts of God “

    As I said before, I noticed many accusations of “Three Gorges Dam” problems over a decade ago. So, what is wrong with asking you for more details. How more open-minded do you expect a person to be? But I am not surprised you turned this into ad hominem.

    “Mr. Derbyshire knows more than you,…”

    LOL. I read several articles from this charlatan, ok, “China expert” – and I can see he does satisfy the psychological needs of a large segment of the Western audience – people who need to bash China to feel secure.

    • Agree: Tor597
  225. @anonymous

    It is absurdly easy to fool most people. Show them a video of Vietnamese, Filipino, or Malaysian, or even Turkish or Syrian convicts being moved to another place. Play some bad music and tell them in serious tones that “totalitarian” “communist” China is sending ordinary fg Uighers to a nasty death camp. And they believe it!!! Precisely four months later, you can show the same video and tell them the vicious, racist Mayn – Myam- Burmese government is sending nice Ryuh – Ryoh – Bangladeshis to some terrible place.
    “Apparently [the drone vids] were leaked by someone with access to the drone footage.”: Sss fff mwa-ha-ha-ha!

    • Replies: @d dan
  226. @Achmed E. Newman

    China has many mountains over 20,000 feet. Of course, as you say, they are not good for much.

  227. Chinaman says:

    This article reads like one written 20 years ago. This author is definitely senile.

    With Snowden’s revelations of PRISM and wikileak and the deep state meddling being exposed in the open, I can’t believe John still believe America is a better than China.

    Hong Kong, particularly the arrest of newspaper publisher and democracy advocate Jimmy Lai. [Hong Kong Arrests Jimmy Lai, Media Mogul, Under National Security Law, by Austin Ramzy and Tiffany May, NY Times, August 10, 2020].

    Yes, that’s right. They let him off easy. He would be Have been charged with treason in America. He betrayed his people and Democracy advocate mean an open CIA asset in HK.

    If you haven’t realise it, no one really believe in democracy nowadays, it is just one of words you use as a gambit for moral authority … Democracy is a TOOL, a mean for to gain political power. Who are you fooling here ?

    • Agree: Tor597
  228. d dan says:
    @Badger Down

    “Show them a video of Vietnamese, Filipino, or Malaysian, or even Turkish or Syrian convicts being moved to another place. Play some bad music and tell them in serious tones that “totalitarian” “communist” China is sending ordinary fg Uighers to a nasty death camp. “

    Exactly. Consider the following samples of the sources about the “concentration camp” and torture:

    — A video of Indonesian police beating up a thief was posted as “Chinese beating up a Muslim for reading the Quran.” And that stupid video got millions of views.

    — In another case, a photo from a sex/BDSM club in Taiwan was used to claim that Uyghurs were being tortured in China.

    — A viral video in 2020 claimed to show handcuffed and blindfolded Uyghurs being led by the police. It was actually an old video from another province (Guizhou) where some non-Uyghur (Han) people got caught in a massive financial fraud (pyramid scheme).

    — Forbes wanted to write an article about “forced labor” in Xinjiang. When they couldn’t find any real photo, they just went to Getty image and bought an old picture — from ten years ago — of a shoe factory in Chile and used it instead! No journalistic ethics.

    ref: https://worldaffairs.blog/2019/07/05/xinjiang-and-uyghurs-what-youre-not-being-told/

    Of course, this types of techniques are applied widely to various issues related to China. For example, they claim a video of a lady in Palau eating bat soup as Chinese in Wuhan doing that.

    • Agree: Badger Down
  229. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    PS: I don’t use the expression “Cultural Marxists”. To me, that one is just confusing.

    In that case I apologise for lumping you in with the idiots who use that term.

    These people are destroyers of culture. You’ve got to do that before, you get control. (I’m not saying it’s one big plan either – these types, the useful idiots and the elites at the top, are not smart enough for that.)

    I pretty much agree with that.

    A point that I think is important is that the current Cultural Revolution is a Children’s Revolution. The foot soldiers, the useful idiots, are basically toddlers throwing a tantrum and throwing their toys out of the pram. They have no coherent ideology, no coherent agenda, no coherent ideas, no coherent plan. They don’t even really know what sort of society they want.

    All they know is that Mommy has given them oatmeal again and they hate oatmeal so they’re hurling the bowl of oatmeal against the wall. And then crying because they have no dinner.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  230. denk says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I saw the article at the top, but I do remember that Romanoff is a High-functioning Retard.

    Are you responding to me Ahmed ?

    the Big Lies..

    Exhibit A

    millions of Xinjiang Uigurs being tortured in hundreds of concentration camps
    a campaign of repression”, with the nowadays-almost-compulsory “forced sterilisation

    Huawei, the world’s single most dangerous spying entity

    China recently hacked into the Vatican

    So……

    Romanoff who questions the Big Lies is the retard,
    Ahmed who swallows it all is the
    Big Lies buster,

    I get it now.
    heheheheh

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
  231. Ralph L says:

    Derb called Millard Fillmore insignificant on Radio Derb, but Perry’s expedition to Japan was planned in his presidency. My ancestor was his Secretary of the Navy, and my cousin has a vase (allegedly) sent back to him by the Emperor. So no Fillmore, then maybe no Russian naval disaster, no Pacific War, no Mao, no Nissan Juke.

  232. @SeekerofthePresence

    That’s right! Always look both ways.

  233. @botazefa

    The Fed isn’t appointed or directed by the US government. Their leadership is completely at their discretion. The Chairman is not nominated by the US President.

    https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12591.htm

  234. botazefa says:

    The Fed hands the President a name. The President doesn’t choose the nominee, the Fed does.

  235. Tor597 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Nice propaganda.

    I am sure you don’t care about NY or Michigan and you make excuses about California which is the wealthiest state in America.

    But that is the point. You can’t say that America has great infrastructure and then backpedal and gloss over all of these huge examples.

    And you say where whites are allowed to run things there will be nice things, except Eastern Europe which is run by whites is far more run down compared to east asian standards.

    And then you qualify it lol because you know it is false by saying OK, CAN. This literally doesn’t mean anything since any race can have nice things.

    This entire thread you have been backtracking and skating on ice because even you can’t defend your weak positions.

    • Agree: d dan
    • Replies: @d dan
    , @Achmed E. Newman
  236. Half-Jap says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Godfree tell only half truths; he probably means well.
    When it comes to Japan and the time before and after, such are transparent, as Mao was a good friend to us Imperials. Living in modern China, I also strongly disagree with him (GR), as does many Chinese. Chinese are practical and know how to get along to go along for our own purposes; practical and simple.
    I love it when he gushes and whitewashes, when the real man was just making the best of what he had, was ruthless as was or wasn’t warranted, and I must give it up to Mao for strategic and tactical victories. If only we had him to deal with than Xi today.

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
  237. Half-Jap says:
    @denk

    What supports your assertions? Would be helpful for the rest of us.

  238. Half-Jap says:
    @Half-Jap

    Rallying cry: Viva L’MAO 😀
    Such happy funny commie rev ever, for the confused youth today.

    • Replies: @Grahamsno(G64)
  239. d dan says:
    @Tor597

    “This entire thread you have been backtracking and skating on ice because even you can’t defend your weak positions.”

    Well said. This is exactly how I feel when debating with him – twist, turn, backtrack, skate, and back to step 1, then sprinkle a few ad hominem here and there – that is the basic reciples for his “apple pie”.

  240. @Tor597

    Tor, what you call excuses are explanations. California may be the wealthiest State, but that’s pretty much my explanation regarding the fires. Fires are going to rage in dry forest and in big parts of a State that would be desert lands but for irrigation from the Owens Valley. I take it you know nothing about geography either.

    My point about California is that when you double the population, jacking up land values, people move into places that never were safe from fires. Fires are going to come, no matter how cool the new wide-body water/retardant bombers are (and they are!) Then, the water resources are getting very tight too. Yeah, it could use more infrastructure, water-wise, but all major projects take 100 x the effort in America, as they are held up by Government paperwork and one NIMBY lawsuit after the next. No, America is not a CAN-DO country anymore, but that’s a big function of our die-versity. California is BIG on die-versity, being only, what 30% White now? It’s living off the efforts of 20th century Americans.

    Eastern Europe was under Communist rule for 45 years, man. What do you expect there? Hence the word “CAN”. I never said that all it takes to be a great nation is a unified people. It is a necessary condition, but not sufficient. (That’s contrary to what a lot of the White Nationalist Socialists say – they are wrong.) China is a great example. The Han people are over 90% of the country, so they are very unified. That did not help them during the near 3 decades under Mao, did it?

    I would expect nothing more than 3rd world behavior from areas controlled by 3rd-world people, whether in America or elsewhere. That’s just the truth of it. It does not change the great history of this country* and the horrible history of 20th century China.

    Mr. Derbyshire’s article is about convergence in terms of freedoms and government control. As I wrote earlier, I don’t agree fully, as the Chinese seem to be accepting the Orwellian CCP control more quickly than American with our control-freaks here. Though I’m very impressed with the way China is doing with its infrastructure (big fuck-ups notwithstanding), it’s a shame about the way China is going, liberty-wise.

    .

    * We had the ideal conditions from the 1700s through 1960.

    • Replies: @Tor597
  241. @RobinG

    I’m so sorry for not replying yesterday, Robin, as a whole day is a long time in the blog world. As I’m trying to get through to Mr. Doom, maybe they have NO ideology, but the antifa are the same type of individuals you would have seen in 1920s Germany that the Brownshirts were formed to kick the asses of, and earlier 1917 Russia. They are disaffected, have no hope or wishes for any productive life, and must eventually be taken care of or we will end up the same way as the Russians or, differently, Germans did.

    Americans are going to have to band together more, as there is great power in numbers, even against the Establishment that is completely on the side of the anitfa (everyone, law enforcement at the Chief level, the legal system, the universities, etc.). Yes, I’d guess there are some planners behind the scenes, or at least centers of communication.

  242. @dfordoom

    Sorry for the late reply, Mr. Doom, as I was distracted by the China Uber Alles crowd. I like your oatmeal temper tantrum analogy. It was timely, as when our 9 y/o didn’t eat it yesterday, my wife just mixed it into the beans this morning. (You’re gonna eat it one way or the other!) He’s a great kid, so no, nothing gets hurled against the wall.

    Let’s just say this, as we are almost in agreement but for the terminology: If you went back in a time machine to 1920s German, 19-teens Russia, or 1966 China, would you not see that the people that were big-time Communists then have the same qualities/personalities/etc., as you describe these antifa children as having?

    I enjoyed the conversation with you, Mr. Doom as a welcome change to some of the Chi-tards on the thread.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @denk
  243. @Mefobills

    Plenty of Serpentza videos on low trust civilization… things like scamming, stealing of children, pick pockets, etc. China has also stolen quite a bit of America’s patrimony, and when this is done it seems Chinese perpetrators have no feelings of guilt.

    Mefobills, you’re an intelligent man. Serpentza (South African) is bitter and lies. He derives his income on YT solely on denouncing China. If you research his background you will conclude his videos reflect one bitter individuals opinion.

    Some other perspectives short of visiting China with your own eyes:

  244. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Let’s just say this, as we are almost in agreement but for the terminology: If you went back in a time machine to 1920s German, 19-teens Russia, or 1966 China, would you not see that the people that were big-time Communists then have the same qualities/personalities/etc., as you describe these antifa children as having?

    I almost agree. Certainly there’s a personality type that just likes smashing things. Some of them became communists and some became fascists and some became Nazis.

    But however much you disapprove of communism, the communists did have an actual plan. They really did believe they were going to build a better society. It wasn’t just about smashing stuff.

    There aren’t any communists any more, so now we just have the people who like smashing stuff. And they’re not being financed by the Kremlin, they’re being financed from corporate boardrooms. They’re being financed from corporate boardrooms because those corporations believe the end result will be greater corporate power and higher corporate profits.

    That’s an enormous difference, and describing these moronic thugs as communists obscures that vital difference. These thugs are not working to smash the Establishment, they’re working (whether they realise it or not) to defend the Establishment. They’re rioting for Wall Street, not against it.

    In the case of some right-wingers, the use of the term communists to describe these thugs is a deliberate attempt to obscure that huge difference. In the case of other right-wingers it’s just the usual far right tendency to live in a paranoid delusional world where it’s always the 1950s and there are always commies under the bed.

    There aren’t any commies under the bed because there aren’t any commies any more.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  245. Tor597 says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Again you embarrass yourself.

    You say California’s population doubled. What would you say about China if the role was reversed?

    If China, having a much higher population density, had all these fires break out do you really think you would cut them a break for not being able to control it?

    Fires are much easier to control than floods by the way.

    And then you give Eastern Europe an excuse for being communist, but lol you don’t give China the same break for accomplishing much more than these countries while communist.

    And then you just fall back on the liberty meme lol. America has never been a free country. 1700s to 1960 saw brutal treatment of blacks, native Americans, Japanese, Chinese, Hispanics, gays, and women.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  246. Smith says:

    All the recent news just make me distrustful of the big powers USA, EU, China and even Russia, tbh.

    The world would be simpler if it was small state. Yeah, bigger states and bigger governments are more efficient, then they start to enter internal and external conflicts and it’s all kind of fucked-up.

  247. @Tor597

    I absolutely give the Chinese people the same break for their bout of hard-core Communism. Their problem even today is that they don’t have a philosophy of “Quality is Job 1”. It’s closer to “Job 4”.

    China is not California. Do you understand anything about climate, Tor? California has a Mediterranean climate with warm and very dry summers. China has no such land with that particular climate. Though their is plenty of desert, that’s not where many people are living. In the meantime, 40 million people live in a State that would be mostly desert/scrubland but for the efforts of American civil engineers 100 years ago who built the aqueducts to bring water from the Owens Valley and elsewhere. Californians move up onto all the hillsides they can – it ain’t always wise in the long run.

    Who says fires are more easy to control than floods? One does not control the outbreak of a fire, PERIOD. Some illegal alien throws out a cigarette in the hills, and depending on wind and humidity, you may see a million acres burn. The control after that lies in the hands of the firemen, many who are smoke jumpers, parachuting into spots damn near the worst of it. Then there are old-timey aircraft dropping water or retardant, like the old P-3s, but now even converted DC-10s!

    In the meantime, flood control involves long-term planning. If you do it right, you control all but that 1,000-year flood, or whatever the engineers have designed for. You do need some quality control though, never a USSR/East Bloc thing, and maybe never a China thing.

    Learn something, Mr. Tor. It’s a big wide world out there, even outside of China. One more thing: Reading comprehension, my friend. It’s not just a slogan. Live it!

    .

    Oh, re your last paragraph. I’ve got the world’s smallest violin playing for you, but otherwise you can talk to my ass about that.

    • Replies: @d dan
  248. About that drone footage of the Uighurs…. What do you think goes on at Guantanamo????

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
  249. @Jake

    Not sure where you get that idea about “old liberties” being a part of Christendom. When Christ comes again He will rule with a rod of iron. You didn’t read that?

  250. OzGuy says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Of course there is no inherent stability about the middle point where the 2 countries will momentarily meet. More likely momentum will have each swing further on its trajectory.

    So anyone relish the scenario where US heads toward more totalitarian rule when China becomes more open and free? Unlikely?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  251. denk says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Chi-tards

    [sic]

    Ahmad

    I cant stand outright big lies

    When’s the last time you challenge the FUKUS big lies about Tibet, UIghurs, HK ???

    We should mind our own biz

    Yet your fav pastime is to grill G Roberts on anything he says about China which’s remotely positive,.

    Ahmad, the murikkan BIg lies
    personified.

    P.S.
    [Not to waste another post]
    Half Jap
    YOu seem to be the only one here
    not getting it.

  252. @OzGuy

    It’s difficult to imagine the US being any more totalitarian than it is now. Only in a totalitarian country does the leader have the sole power to:
    * Declare war. Frequently.
    * Issue 300,000 national security letters (administrative subpoenas with gag orders that enjoin recipients from ever divulging they’ve been served);
    * Control information at all times under his National Security and Emergency Preparedness Communications Functions.
    * Torture, kidnap and kill anyone, anywhere, at will.
    * Secretly ban 50,000 citizens from flying–and refusing to explain why.
    * Imprison 2,000,000 citizens without trial.
    * Execute 1,000 citizens each year prior to arrest.
    * Kill 1,000 foreign civilians every day since 1951
    * Massacre its own men, women and children for their beliefs
    * Assassinate its own citizens abroad, for their beliefs.

    What other leader saw his country’s military dropping 26,171 bombs in one year? That works out at every day of that year, the country’s military dropped 72 bombs, or 3 bombs every hour, 24 hours a day, according to the Council on Foreign Relations. He was a Nobel Peace Prize winner? Barack Obama. That same year, 2016, special operators from the United States could be found in 70 percent of the world’s nations.

    China is not even in the same league.

    • Agree: denk, GomezAdddams
  253. @Tor597

    Whoooaaaa… You left out a big part. The US stole heavily from German technology as well.

  254. @SeekerofthePresence

    Read your bible. True Christianity cannot have a civilization because the Kingdom is not of this earth. If the world likes you then you are not a friend of God. The “Christian civilization” you speak of is Roman society sprinkled with other European superstition and then some biblical imagery.

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  255. d dan says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “Their problem even today is that they don’t have a philosophy of “Quality is Job 1”. It’s closer to “Job 4”.”

    From Tim Cook, CEO of Apple:

    “… you find in China the intersection of craftsman kind of skill, and sophisticated robotics and the computer science world. That intersection, which is very rare to find ANYWHERE, that kind of skill, is very important to our business because of the PRECISION and QUALITY level that we like. ” – my capitalizations

    source: https://www.inc.com/glenn-leibowitz/apple-ceo-tim-cook-this-is-number-1-reason-we-make-iphones-in-china-its-not-what-you-think.html

    Hmmm…., who to believe? The person in charge of a Fortune 500 company, multi-billions R&D, creates 100s of thousands of employments in both China and US, have thousands of engineers and researchers, does businesses in over 100 countries, … or a commenter here.

    And of course, Tim Cook is not the only CEO who thinks that way. Many other CEO’s also “voted” with their own investment budgets and money. And billions of customers all over the world are voluntarily spending their money on products that they want.

  256. @Mefobills

    You are correct about the damage the Cultural Revolution did – but you are incorrect on the remedy.
    Actually the Chinese government does now promote return to traditional Chinese culture such Confucianism and Taoism and Zen Buddhism… That is also the motive behind the social credit score.

    As to that video. That South African guy in the YouTube video you forwarded is a known liar. He spent most of the time getting famous doing “nice” videos about China. Then he realized the real money is in making China look bad to the west. He even moved to the US. As an aside — If China was as evil as he says – he would have been “disappeared” long ago.

  257. @Emily

    Indeed the Chechen and Uighur issue is similar. That is why Russia and China formed the Shanghai Cooperation Organization – which tracks jihadists throughout Central Asia and shares intelligence among the countries in the region. Once the US invaded Afghanistan – they knew what was to come.

  258. @HallParvey

    That is false… Lust leads to harmful things. Desire for life is not the same as lust. Wanting food or sex or fun is not the same as lust. Lust leads to gluttony – whoredom – crime etc.

    • Replies: @HallParvey
  259. @Achmed E. Newman

    “Where the white people are allowed to run things and do there thing there will (OK, CAN) be nice things. Otherwise, no, it’s going to go bad.”

    So you are claiming that disasters don’t take place where white people are because whites always make things work right??? Wow – you white supremacists are really psychotic. Not only that – your words are blasphemy. Funny because while the fires were raging recently in Australia it took some sensible whites to point out that Australia always had fires and that is why the natives chose not to settle in certain areas. Same can be said about California. So who is to blame? Let me guess – the violent non whites who chased whites into those areas (sarcasm).

    As to the Three Gorges Dam. First off you are a clown for blaming “commies”. The dam – like the railway system and standard Mandarin across the country were first dreamed up by the Nationalists before the “commies” got into power. Just like the South China Sea – it is simply a continuation of Nationalist policy from when China was an “ally” (cough cough) of the US. As to the construction – anyone with sense knows that there is no perfect civil engineering project… But to insinuate that the Three Gorges Dam is anything but a civil engineering marvel shows you lack credibility and are filled with emotions that come from you pettiness and hatred. Any way you want to cut it – it prevents catastrophe – even if it can’t prevent every single flood. Get a grip.
    Had you been alive over 1000 years ago when the Chinese opened the Grand Canal you would have found fault.

    • Agree: d dan, GomezAdddams
  260. @showmethereal

    True Christianity cannot have a civilization because the Kingdom is not of this earth.

    Byzantine civilization held to “True Christianity,” did it not?

    The “Christian civilization” you speak of is Roman society sprinkled with other European superstition and then some biblical imagery.

    Gross oversimplification sounds to me like Manichean dualism.

    I believe Arnold Toynbee and other historians would disagree with your supposition that civilization and Kingdom are synonomous. Therefore no contradiction with the Bible.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  261. @GomezAdddams

    Trump maybe be poorly educated in medicinal science or epidemiology. And you are too if you buy these systematically, intentionally, egregiously exaggerated “COVID-19 death” stats.

    Let’s see a rebuttal of the well-documented points made by these experienced medical doctors:

    https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

  262. @dfordoom

    OMG! You’re talking about Jews!

  263. @Wizard of Oz

    The three non Han Majority provinces of China, Xinjiang, Tibet & Inner Mongolia cover 50% of the area of the Chinese state and just have 5% of the population and this’s not covering Qinghai another vast province mainly situated in the Tibetan Plateau and which is almost minority majority. Giving up these territories will be impossible but nobody wants to live there.

    • Replies: @Wizard of Oz
  264. @Half-Jap

    Viva L’MAO

    Yes that’s the battle cry of the greatest political satirist of our era Dogflee Lolberts, the court jester at Zhongnanhai. He gets that grim humorless crowd in splits when he displays his L-MAO era graphs, the last time he did his shtick there Emperor Xi almost had a seizure laughing when he told them that the Chinese govt. never ever lied to its people. He has been banished from there and has been asked to tone down his humor if he wants to go back. His unique brand of historical revisionism as black humor has a cult following in Zhongnanhai but has the authorities obviously worried that the proles might find it funny as well. The authorities have rightly noted that his ’21st Century socialist humor with Chinese characteristics’ could be extremely subversive.

  265. @dfordoom

    As the expression State Capitalism is usually accepted as making enough sense not to muddy a discussion it is probably worth asking in most discussions what are taken to be the defining characteristics of the capitalism one might wish to preserve. Would one not rate highly flexibility n aggregating capital to invest in new products or services or new and better means of producing them? The rise of the FANGS would appear to confirm that it is alive – as, one might argue the demise of Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros does also.

  266. @Grahamsno(G64)

    Impossible yes, but not because no one wants to live there. Ask the Uighurs et al.

  267. Culpepper says:
    @dfordoom

    So far no religion has been able to withstand the secular juggernaut.

    Does that go for Islam?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  268. d dan says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    “Why didn’t China solve its (only minor) Uighur problem by saying “sorry, our ancestors made a mistake incorporating you mad monotheist primitives in the Chinese empire: off you go, you’re no longer Chinese and good luck to you”.”

    Because China is waiting for Australia to show her how to do that first, after White Australians solve the Aborigines’ problem by giving up the Australia?

  269. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Culpepper

    So far no religion has been able to withstand the secular juggernaut.

    Does that go for Islam?

    Yes. Give it another couple of generations and Muslims in the West will be, for the most part, as thoroughly secularised as anyone else. And secularism has made huge inroads even in Islamic nations.

    Islam has resisted secularism more fiercely than Christianity did but in the long run my money is on secularism winning. I’m not happy about it but that’s the way I think it will go.

    A lot of deluded Christians say there’s no problem, that Christianity has survived other threats, but secularism represents a threat of a kind never seen before. It’s not a matter of a squabble between competing religions or competing heresies or competing sects. Secularism undermines the entire basis of religion. Secularism makes religion, not a matter for dispute, but simply an irrelevance to most people’s lives or at most an obstacle.

    Religion will survive among a fairly small minority but it will not be religion as we used to know it. It will be religion as a personal belief system, with no social, cultural or political significance. Religious people will, at best, be tolerated as long as they keep their beliefs to themselves. In other words they will be tolerated as long as they stay in the closet about their beliefs.

    I’m not saying this is a good thing or a bad thing but it’s the way I believe that things will play out.

    And I think Islam will face the same fate as Christianity, unless the West collapses entirely.

  270. @showmethereal

    Lust leads to gluttony – whoredom – crime etc.

    Unbridled lust can lead to gluttony. True. Restrictions can come from behavioral rules learned or from the application of threats of retribution from external forces. Restrictions on gluttony, in general, require the application of internal motivations. An example is the conflicting desire to taste another doughnut and the desire to present a svelt appearance.

    Whoredom and crime are both examples of violation of externally applied laws. Prostitution is forbidden because the unregulated selling of sexual favors on a short term basis is a threat to the formation of the naturally occuring family structure.

    Crime is a violation of previously decided law, and generally a threat to the concept of ownership. Examples are the ten commandments. “Thou shall not kill” is the same as saying, “Thou shall not steal thy neighbors life”. It forbids theft of the ownership of a life.

    All of these restrictions are learned. Some are personal. For example, learning not to put your finger in the fire. Some are parental, for example, “keep your elbows off the table”.

    Some are edicts from the King. Or Congress. Or the Queen. Or the President. Those rules of behavior generally serve the purposes of the rulers of whatever land is under consideration.

  271. @SeekerofthePresence

    “Gross oversimplification sounds to me” – it is because it is too complex of a matter for this forum… But I will give you the words of the One for whom the religion was named. When quizzed by the Roman administrator He told him “my kingdom is not of this earth – for if it was my servants would fight”. That mirrors the illustration of His being tempted by Satan who correctly stated the kingdoms of the earth were given into his hand and Satan held influence over the nations. There was no argument from the Messiah.

    Sorry – no – there is no such thing as a “Christian kingdom”. Certainly not in a democracy where laws can be changed at will of the masses…

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
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