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“Something Happened In 2013-2014”—Haidt and Codevilla On the Elite Drive for Civil War
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Adapted from the latest Radio Derb, available exclusively on

This comes to you from beneath the sign of Saturn. I am glum. It’s nothing personal, thank God; I’m glum about the state of my country. Coming from the author of a book titled We Are Doomed, I guess that’s not an astonishing thing to hear; but I’m glummer than usual. Specifically, one of my hobby-horses, the Cold Civil War, is achieving mainstream recognition. It’s not a comfortable feeling.

In support of this conclusion, I offer you two social commentaries.

The first comes from my favorite liberal. I’m not speaking sarcastically; I really like this guy, and the things he says. It’s Jonathan Haidt, a social psychologist who teaches at New York University. He’s the author of the 2013 book The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion.

Just note the date there before I proceed: 2013.

Professor Haidt is also more recently the co-author, with Greg Lukianoff, of the 2018 book The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas are Setting Up a Generation for Failure.

I have some slight personal acquaintance with Jonathan. I can affirm that while we disagree on many, many points of fact, particularly to do with human biodiversity, he is one of the sanest, most thoughtful, best-mannered, and, darn it, most civilized people I know—a man who has done real, interesting, original work trying to understand human nature.

Well, he’s been on an Australian tour, to open which he gave an interview to The Weekend Australian. In the interview he is stunningly pessimistic:

I am now very pessimistic. I think there is a very good chance American democracy will fail, that in the next 30 years we will have a catastrophic failure of our democracy.

The current political civil war is between two groups of educated white people with radically different views about what the country is, what morality is and what we need to do to move forward.

Most Americans are non-political, but in the age of social media they have become like dark matter. The modern civil war is being fought by the extremes …

We just don’t know what a democracy looks like when you drain all the trust out of the system.

[ America’s uncivil war on democracy, by Paul Kelly, Weekend Australian, July 20, 2019]

I say again, this is a calm and reasonable guy, who investigates human nature for a living. It’s not some frothing partisan. I can’t even imagine Jonathan frothing.

And note that he mentions the Cold Civil War there. To repeat:

The current political civil war is between two groups of educated white people with radically different views about what the country is, what morality is and what we need to do to move forward.

To see Jonathan in recent action, watch brief interview he did with Australian TV where he says some of the same things in more detail. It’s well worth fifteen minutes of your time.

Haidt is especially concerned with a change he has seen on campus—in the lifestyles and attitudes of students that happened quite abruptly in, he says, 2014.

That’s much of what his latest book, The Coddling of the American Mind is all about. That’s why I said to note the date of his earlier book, which has an overall more cheerful tone.

Something happened in 2013-2104, Haidt suggests. Our society, the younger strata of it, turned some kind of corner. It’s the phenomenon that Matt Yglesias (who, to prove the point, has blocked on Twitter and therefore presumably won’t see this) has documented as the “Great Awokening.”[VOX, April 1, 2019]

I have heard the same thing from other academics. This youngest tranche of students, the ones raised on social media, are, they say, “different” in scary ways from what has gone before.

Key differences are their closed-mindedness and emotional fragility. They have high levels of depression and anxiety. They don’t date much; they don’t have sex much; they don’t fall in love.

(And in parentheses here, having mentioned sex, I’d like to offer heartfelt thanks to Jonathan Haidt for saying “sex differences” instead of “gender differences.” I’m approaching the point where I shall get up and leave the room is someone says “gender.” It’s sex, dammit. Thank you, Sir!)

There is a line of logic you can reconstruct from these apparently academic reflections on sex, love, trust, closed-mindedness and fragility to Professor Haidt’s gloomy predictions about “a catastrophic failure of our democracy.”

This is a guy we should be listening to.

And here’s another: Angelo Codevilla writing in American Greatness. Codevilla is the author of the 2010 book The Ruling Class.

Executive summary of that book: he doesn’t like our ruling class. Neither do I; so I’m always up for an essay by Professor Codevilla. In this one he too argues that, yes, we are heading for Civil War:

The story of the contemporary American Left’s sponsorship of hate and violence begins around 1964, when the Democratic Party chose to abandon the Southern constituencies that had been its mainstay since the time of Jefferson and Jackson. In less than a decade, the party found itself increasingly dependent on gaining super-majorities among blacks, upscale liberals, and constituencies of resentment in general—and hence on stoking their hate.

For the past half century, America’s political history has been driven by the Democratic Party’s effort to fire up these constituencies by denigrating the rest of America. As elements of cynical calculation melded into self-images of righteous entitlement to rule inferiors, the boundaries between the party and the constituencies’ most radical parts have eroded.

[Igniting Civil War, August 6, 2019]

They certainly have.

Look at the Democrat candidates on display in those debates last month. “Self-images of righteous entitlement to rule inferiors”? Speaking as an older heterosexual white male, and therefore quadruply inferior, I totally get the point.

Enough pessimism? I’m not through yet. Codevilla closes with the following, which I think might usefully be embroidered in cross-stich on a throw pillow, except it’s a bit too long:

We know that our ruling class having largely made government into a partisan thing, America has crossed the threshold of revolution. While we have no way of knowing what lies ahead, we know that the spiral of political violence has already taken its first fateful turns, and that the logic of our partisan ruling class is pushing for more.

On that happy note, I’m happy that I’m about to leave for vacation in for the peaceable kingdom of China. But I hope that Derb delivery will continue as usual.

John Derbyshire [email him] writes an incredible amount on all sorts of subjects for all kinds of outlets. (This no longer includes National Review, whose editors had some kind of tantrum and fired him.) He is the authorof We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism and several other books. He has had two books published by com: FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT (also available in Kindle) and FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT II: ESSAYS 2013.

(Republished from VDare by permission of author or representative)
• Category: Ideology • Tags: Academia, Political Correctness 
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  1. Cervantes says:

    I’ve recently returned to Junior College in order to work on my cars while I pursue a STEM graduate degree. STEM is a ticket to the expat market, and hardly PC anymore.. We all want overseas employment. BUT what is completely refreshing are my class mates in shop classes. Mostly Mexican, with white instructors that are shop owners for their day jobs; NO PC bullshit period. And none of the Spanish speakers gives a rat’s ace about the Holocaust. In fact, they all consider Jews as nothing but scam artists that the Anglos are foolish to put up with. Basically, they are all about making money, and are very helpful. I lecture a bit on Economics and how to keep the money the system is trying to take, but it’s really not a difficult sell. The only hispanics that are a problem are the ones that try to be white, usually the hippie, long haired types that the Spanish speaker despise. What I can see is that the supporters of the Left from the Hispanic sector are; (Surprise, Surprise) the same a**holes that reject their heritage, consider themselves too good to get their hands dirty with a real job, and basically want to suck up to the Jewish ideal, though they are too stupid to understand who’s really in charge. The working stiffs are all about making money, having families, and keeping Central Americans and others out. They fully realize that more illegals mean higher rents, lower wages and more taxes.

    Just like in the White world, the true enemy is the lazy ‘intellectual’, that insists on being subsidized by the government. He/She/It needs these unskilled ‘immigrants’ in order to find satisfying employment keeping track of and feeling superior to them. The hard working types have no use for this foolishness and don’t put up with it. I even point out the obvious, give a working man a million dollars and he will buy a new pickup and have a couple more kids. The idiot classes will spend it all to look like a reality star and be back to begging from the system the next day. If one can identify with the clowns on MSM or tv it’s time to change one’s values; the Devil knows your name and is calling. Skilled tradesman have no problem understanding this, while those that seek out ‘higher’ edumacashun’ seem vulnerable to the lies of the Deceiver

  2. KevinM. says:

    Excellent analyses, yes, many in the US have noticed that we have turned a corner from which there may be no return. I can’t believe that it is really organic, it must be being partly manipulated by the elites who own and control the media, and therefore the public mind. It is also partly simple demographics. It would seem that the “American ideal” has very quickly played out, and the elites are ready for the next, more radical, step, in which America has to be eliminated. Don’t chuckle, as that is now possible with a concerted effort by anti-western forces, with some help from natural cycles. Yes, just as in 9/11, the techno-world which America created will now turn around and destroy it. Im loving UNZ Review,, by the way, its one of the few remaining sources of intellectual honesty I have found.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  3. Well, I hope Derb is wrong. I have children, and I would hope the world they will inherit is not doomed.

    I am an old style liberal who hopes time will come when the alternative left and right can work together against the oligarch puppet masters who pull the strings to make the two sides hate each other. Often I am not optimistic. Sometimes it appears the Left and Right would rather see their common enemy win than work together.

    For example, the Leftist McCarthyism, which seeks to destroy the non-Woke.
    One of my ancestors, R Nurse, was hanged as a witch in Salem.
    My father’ career suffered some because he refused to lie and falsely denounce his father, because some opportunistic senator from Wisconsin included my grandfather in a list of supposed communist sympathizers. Said senator was grilled by the foreign relations committee and found not to have had even a shred of evidence.
    Some folks in my church in the south had their careers suffer because they openly favored integration.

    There is a witch hunt from the Left now. Not as bad as the Cultural Revolution, at least not yet.

    There are existential dangers to our planet and to our society, but we can not work together to solve the problems, because each side refuses to see what won’t fit their current views.

    I do find it interesting that a few of the very youngest of the right wingers are coming to some of the same conclusions that some left wingers came to 50 or more years ago— that we are headed to an ecological disaster and part of the solution is drastically cutting immigration. When Gaylord Nelson said this, he was hailed as a prophet by the Left. Correctly, in my opinion. Now days the Woke Left label this idea as “eco-fascism”.
    Sadly, many on the right refuse to see the problem because it doesn’t fit in with “correct “ right-wing thinking. Many on the left refuse to see the solution because it is politically incorrect. It appears only the “eco-fascists “ are willing to address both the problems and the solutions.

    My hope is enough people on the right wake up and see the horrible problems facing us, and enough on the left are willing to join the “eco-fascists” to save the planet. Or, the Left could trust the so-called activists who fly their private jets to global warming conferences while the Right could trust the sorts who burn down the Amazon.

    And that is just one issue.

    Maybe we really are doomed.

  4. renfro says:

    I agree with Codevilla. What rough beast slouches towards Bethlehem indeed. Pay attention.

    “Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
    The darkness drops again; but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?”

    • Replies: @SeekerofthePresence
  5. (And in parentheses here, having mentioned sex, I’d like to offer heartfelt thanks to Jonathan Haidt for saying “sex differences” instead of “gender differences.” I’m approaching the point where I shall get up and leave the room is someone says “gender.” It’s sex, dammit. Thank you, Sir!)

    Agreed. Living creatures are divided in sexes. ‘Genders’ are for French nouns.

  6. @Cervantes

    Cervantes, I grew up in a majority Hispanic town in Texas, and your characterization here is 100% accurate. The real problem is the Democratic Party nomenklatura who seek to remake Hispanics into the new Blacks for their own political purposes. Left to their own devices, most Hispanics in my experience are a good bit more–dare I say it?–based. We used to joke that, if there are White rednecks, then there are also definitely Hispanic brown-necks!

  7. Smith says:

    Civil war in the US would be the best thing to happen to the US and the world.

    Like in every mythology, with destruction, comes rebirth.

  8. How could it have happened visibly over just a one year period? That’s the strange part. College students starting school in ’14 would be some of the first of those who never knew a world without the internet, being 2 y/o in ~ 1998, when everyone but old people were on-line, broadband was making inroads even to homes, and the dot-com 1.0 bubble was being blown up.*

    Still, there’s usually a continuum with social trends. If things really “flipped” hard in ’14, it does make you wonder if people or creatures (Soros?) behind the scenes were partially responsible.


    * That was a big difference from just 3 years earlier, 1995, when one could make 3 thousand bucks just writing some html in Notepad to sell a site with 5 pages, including 3 photos and an email form (wow!) to a small business.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    , @El Dato
  9. I look forward to your “boots-on-the-ground” reporting from China, Mr. Derbyshire. Some readers here may be familiar with your colleague (ha!) Fred Reed’s fairly factual* (at least the first 2) columns from his view of the Middle Kingdom as a two-week tourist of about 1/2 year back. With your partial command of the language, your cultural background from your wife, and you experience of having lived there for some years(?), we can learn some truth about the place.

    Peak Stupidity has nothing but short, often amusing, anecdotes – both on experiences in China and experiences with Chinese people in America – here. Let’s get your opinion on the big picture. Have a good trip.


    * Mr. Reed was rightfully impressed with the amazing work on the infrastructure of China, even more so as a Mexican. On the infrastructure – A Peak Stupidity apology to our Chinese readers.

  10. Svevlad says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Oh we aren’t really doomed. There are just transformations. See Anatoly Karlins analysis of the future to understand. You won’t have many boogaloos, just a lengthy period of stagnation and shittyness, that will probably be good for the thirld world (no more gibs -> forced to adapt -> high population makes it real fast)

  11. unit472 says:

    Well you can say it was a gradual transition that began in 2013-2014 or a deliberate tactic. The predicate for the current situation may have been developing over time but it took Obama bleating about Trayvon Martin and then Michael Brown to fan the sparks into a fire.

    The more we learn about Obama’s presidency the more we realize that things like Ferguson, Baltimore and Russian collusion were orchestrated events.

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
    , @Kronos
  12. Gunga Din says:

    I honestly HOPE civil war begins soon, before I’m too old to participate! And that the first ones to go are Soros and his jew allies who own/control the news and social media. Get them neutralized and the war’s half won.

  13. Smith says:

    You and me both.

    Rather have it over with when I’m 40 instead of 60.

  14. @Paleo Liberal

    You’re absolutely correct. Senator Nelson and Cesar Chavez are in the process of being discredited and written out of history simply because the modern Left cannot reconcile their irrational uncompromising insistence on unlimited immigration with the classical liberal goals of environmentalism and labor.

    We may be doomed. It’s difficult to see how anything but the most unlikely combination of enlightened authoritarianism can overcome the terminal inducements of both good intentions and unrestrained profitability. The most likely future involves some level of escalating civil war and ecological degradation, during which all remaining classical liberal values will be abandoned to the detriment of all.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  15. @Sollipsist

    I don’t think Chavez and Nelson are being completely written out of the history books. Within a few miles of where I live in Madison WI are the Cesar Chavez Elementary School and the Governor Nelson State Park (they name state parks after governors, not senators around here. Since he was both, they can name a park Governor Nelson, even though his contributions as Senator Nelson were much greater. )

    I think those men will be selectively honored for a while. The immigration restriction aspects of their lives is being ignored, even though Chavez spent his entire career pushing La Migra to deport more illegal aliens and often resorted to vigilante tactics, and Nelson spent decades on the board of an immigration restrictionist environmental group.

    At some point the two will be erased completely when some mid-late 21st century woke people realize they were “fascists “, even though Chavez was actually a communist and Nelson worked his butt off for civil rights and environmental justice.

  16. Another analysis of the dire state of the union without a single mention of the economy and the disastrous monetary policy imposed on the country since the 1970’s in order to further the interests of the wealthy (and as it turned out the old), which has resulted in a materially deformed and impoverished future for young people who have been radicalized and for Middle Americans who have been equally radicalized.

    It’s almost as if there is a conspiracy to ignore the obvious that includes both supposed sides of almost any “debate.”. While the rich get richer, and inequality and particularly intergenerational inequality grows, not through market processes but through machinations of the Fed, the majority of all kinds who have been screwed get angry, just not at the right people.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    , @Feryl
  17. @Cervantes

    In my time in high school, in the 60s, virtually all of the teachers, not so subtly, made it known that anyone not going to university, was a dummy. It didn’t matter that, for example, nurses and medical technologists, didn’t go to university, that power engineers needed to be efficient in calculus, or that machinists had to understand metallurgy, they were all dummies. People studying useless cafeteria style Arts courses, were infinitely more intelligent.
    My kids went through the same thing times 10. Only one of them is prepared to get her hands dirty, and even there, she has reluctance in some areas. I have a long time friend who is (was) an Electrical Engineer. He’s more likely to get his hands dirty than 2/3 of today’s elitist indoctrinated “White” kids.
    This has been a long time in the works.

  18. @donald j tingle

    That’s a good point, that many people are mad at the wrong people. Ron Paul tried to explain some of this to people in the most basic terms, but he was marginalized by the Lyin’ Press. It didn’t help that doing all that thinking about the importance of sound money was too much for the average American voter.

    BTW, I told Ron Paul to talk about illegal immigration if he wanted to win the primary in my State back when he had a chance in ’12. From his latest column, right here on unz, I understand that he never learned this lesson. I still greatly respect this guy for actually defending the US Constitution in office and not just lying about it to get in.

    • Replies: @ATBOTL
  19. Feryl says:
    @donald j tingle

    Yes, our present financial problems dwarf the social and political problems of the 1960’s and 70’s. What is going to make the current era even nastier is that the last 40 years of rising inequality have produced a lot of anger and alienation, and an unsustainable economy, and also have intensified elite conflict (since the rewards of elite status have grown so much over the last 40 years, it makes people more desperately competitive to just win). Turchin’s thesis is that the ugliest periods of American history (and elsewhere, really) coincide with high economic inequality and large groups of people (often sponsored by reckless elites) who are frustrated and/or prone to violence. Thus, 1910-1930 was particularly ugly because of the Gilded Age; whereas the 1960’s and 70’s wasn’t actually that bad because back then we had a strong middle class and our elites got along relatively well.

    Around circa 2010, we clearly entered another 20+ years long cycle of mass violence/protests/political violence etc (these cycles eventually cool off, and we then shy away from political confrontation for the next 30 or so years, e.g. the 1980’s-2000’s being much more politically “cold” than the 60’s and 70’s). Since today’s elites are far more at odds with each other than they were in the 60’s, and since there is a far greater chasm between elites and poor people these days than there was in the 60’s, it’s safe to say until 2030 (or maybe beyond that) we should expect a lot of nasty violence and bickering over politics, that could possible exceed the unrest and bloodshed of the 60’s and 70’s.

  20. conatus says:

    A solution to all our problems is a mandatory return to penmanship in grammar school. You know…the hand that rocks the cradle…
    It would be mandated that the newly required must-be-filled-to-filled-to-graduate copybooks would utilize two prescriptive works mentioned on prior occasions by Mr. Derbyshire.
    ‘Gods of the Copybook Headings’ by Kipling
    and the grammar school kids would begin by copying over and over and over in their copybooks Jonathan Haidt’s correcting phrase:
    “disparate outcomes do not imply disparate treatment”
    They could finish up copying over and over and over a sentence two thirds into a 1997 essay
    ‘How the intellectuals took Over’ by Gerlernter.
    and that sentence is:
    “Today’s elite loathes the nation it rules.”
    But without a return to the Gods of the Copybook Headings I see the USA being transmogrified into ‘Idiocracy’ and President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho pounding the podium for more burgers.

  21. polistra says:

    Haidt’s before-after description doesn’t match what I’ve seen in universities. He claims that dissent was important and valued before 2014. I doubt that. Especially in “social” “science” and the humanities, absolute orthodoxy has ALWAYS been enforced. I’ve been around universities in one way or another since the early ’60s, and I’ve NEVER seen open attitudes or welcoming of dissent.

    Maybe loneliness and personal isolation are more common now. I can’t argue with that point from experience. But the intellectual part is strictly constant for many decades.

    • Replies: @Lol
  22. @unit472

    I have posted this link before–it shows 2013 was _the_ turning point:

    Language was weaponized–it was nothing less than a declaration of war by the elites against the “deplorables”.

    • Replies: @unit472
    , @Noman
  23. Alfa158 says:

    The Civil War, if it happens, will probably kick off when the economic house of cards finally collapses. The oppressive system we live under is sustained by massive debt, printing of Monopoly money, depletion of the accumulated wealth, and a stock market bubble. The transfer of this fake wealth is a reward to the groups who prop up the current regime.
    Once the cards come down the system will no longer have real currency to support the tens of millions of people; academics, students, lawyers, government employees, defense workers, media, NGO’s, welfare recipients, retirees and service sector immigrant workers who are presently being paid off to keep the machinery spinning. At that point it will become a Darwinian free for all to keep getting a cut of the shrinking pie. The problem will be exacerbated by a shrinking White population that would have been the default group to mine. All those Asians who now constitute the groups with highest average income cannot be guilt-tripped into taking up the slack with their own money.
    It is likely then that when the break up happens it will surprise everyone with how suddenly it hits. To paraphrase the old question; how did we get into a civil war? Slowly at first then all at once.
    I’m hoping for myself that it will instead be a gradual slide into Brazil Norte, but I suppose for our descendants it will be better in the long term to work through a breakdown and then rebuild with our example to learn from.

  24. Ragno says:

    You wanna know “what happened” in 2013-14? Simple; Obama’s second term. And thanks to Big Daddy O, but more likely his handlers/advisers/braintrust, this marked the first time a President’s second term was – rather than a “lame duck” period in which the emphasis was in grooming and preparing his immediate successor – devoted to a program of scorched earth. Wherein he smilingly implemented every policy and program he’d assured the country they had no need to worry about, safe in the knowledge that he could booby trap the office, and the future of the country, without needing to win anyone’s approval or permission. (Of course, the only way such a strategy was even possible was that he would proceed with an eagerly compliant MSM firmly in his pocket; and he in theirs. So don’t expect similar bold strokes, on the other side of the pendulum, during Trump’s second term.)

    As for a way out of this damned mess, well, as everyone left or right already knows, and centrists fear, there is none that doesn’t involve many people being killed and the imposition of some form of martial law. (Hey, don’t look at me – I don’t make up the rules, I just acknowledge that they exist.) But just as zero-tolerance, enforced by tear gas and truncheon and prison terms, would have abated and even remedied our growing antifa problem if applied in its early stages, salvaging our republic and our Constitution is going to be a grim and thankless task; but one guaranteed to be far grimmer and more insoluble the longer we wait. Imagine how many millions of deaths need never have taken place if we’d stopped the Bolsheviks early on; same principle.

    • Agree: Kevin O'Keeffe, TTSSYF
    • Replies: @brandybranch
  25. The passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform


    From 1965 to the Nov 3 2020 POTUS Election

    55 years of the Democratic Party nullifying the WORKING CLASS NATIVE BORN WHITE AMERICAN VOTE….

    55 years of a RACE WAR…….THINK ABOUT IT…

  26. Forbes says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    College students starting in ’13-’14 arrived on campus (higher education) already primed from their primary and secondary schools (lower education). They aren’t created de novo.

    They have lived their formative lives with cell phones and texting–instant gratification and no impulse control. Internet and computer games merely adds to poor socialization. Add social media for their bullying, narcissism, flaunting, show-off, one-up-manship, and the typical fictions and fantasies that adolescents get into–and it’s an environment completely at odds with those who grew up without those features (and bugs).

    It’s in hindsight that Haidt and Lukianoff point to that time frame as a tipping point. Metaphors can be helpful to comprehension, but they’re not dispositive to cause.

  27. unit472 says:

    Indeed, my twitter account was ‘suspended’ for referencing mestizo invaders as ‘sawed off illegal immigrants’. Didn’t realize how seriously Dorsey takes the new nomenclature but what was I to call a 5 foot tall Guatemalan? A lanky founding father of America!

  28. I’m glum about the state of my country.

    Are you discussing England or China?

  29. In five years the university mind that could think
    Turned into a tinderbox that could blow in a blink.

  30. Noman says:

    Somewhat incorrect to say that a person is illegal.
    Actions can be legal or illegal.
    “Driving while intoxicated.”

    Proper usage for illegal border crossers would be “persons entering the USA illegally”.
    Criminal trespass could be a charge.

    Much of the need to emigrate might go away, if the USA did not make Central America a hellhole for the people, just to create profit for Corporations.

    Regime change for Guatemala? What’s in it for the Owners?

    • Replies: @Justvisiting
  31. ATBOTL says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Ron or Rand Paul could have been president if they had run on a hardline open borders platform. It’s outrageous that they are still cucking on immigration in the age of Trump.

  32. @ATBOTL

    Yep, ATBOTL, people should listen to me.

    I doubt Mr. Paul keeps track of the fact that he has a column here on unz, much less reads the comments, but I wrote what I consider a good explanation for otherwise-good Libertarians who JUST DON’T GET IT on immigration under that post I linked to above.

  33. Dan Hayes says:


    That’s the trouble with libertarianism or, for that matter, any “ism”: it’s lunacy when carried out to its logical extreme!

  34. Daniel H says:

    Ron or Rand Paul could have been president if they had run on a hardline open borders platform. It’s outrageous that they are still cucking on immigration in the age of Trump.

    Heck, Jeb could have won (nomination and election) if he had been hardline against immigration. This is a no-brainer.

    Both Pauls are true believers as far as open borders go. They will never be on our side. No matter the sense they may speak on other issues they will always let us down. Best to forget them.

  35. The current political civil war is between two groups of educated white people with radically different views about what the country is, what morality is and what we need to do to move forward.

    Wrong. Educated white people on the dissident right hardly have an official voice, lacking spokespeople in the corridors of power or in the mass media. They are reduced to communicating face-to-face, like underground partisans in an occupied country, and in a handful of websites where they are constantly “deplatformed” by totalitarian organizations like Google and Facebook.

    True, the left can call on an ideological Mafia of supposedly “educated” whites to aid in enforcing politically correct doctrine among the chattering classes. But they are just expendable idiots, first onto the beach from the landing craft. Their Marxist controllers don’t care about them except as they are temporarily useful.

    The left’s real legions aren’t educated white people but every minority they can find or invent, a massive demographic invasion force with invisible armor: the deeply embedded belief among whites in paintjob theory that makes them guilty about turning anyone away, even people who openly proclaim they will outbreed and replace their hosts.

    Whites feel bad about taking their own side in this political civil war.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  36. @Paleo Liberal

    Oh, stop it. No more “on the one hand, on the other hand.” Choose.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
  37. Lol says:

    I second this, western universities have been a hot bed of idiotic activism rather than an intellectual forum ever since I had any experience with them which is why I’m all for razing them to the ground.

    • Replies: @David
  38. El Dato says:

    1) The hysterical left bubbles to the top -> Pol Potism, self-criticism, cultural revolution, deindustrialization, white genocide.

    2) The angry right bubbles to the top -> Pinochetism, finally a good use of stadia and helicopters. Creation of “un-governorates” resembling the Gaza strip.

    3) Status quo as long as possible (via a trimumvirate of hardening political aristocracy / deep state management / industrial feudalism) -> Eventual dissolution into ethnic camps, de-industrialisation, Rwandism. Bring machetes.

    This is not the cyberpunk I have been promised! Or is it?

    Changes that will act as accelerators

    -> The next financial crash, exposing the Potemkin village.
    -> Dollar loses its “reserve currency” status.
    -> Tech bubble II based on websites driven by advertising revenue and data mining of bodies implodes.
    -> War against China resulting in quasi-defeat, exposing the Potemkin village.
    -> State unable to pay out, exposing the Potemkin village.
    -> USA considered a clown actor (so you want to sanction this oil tanker?), exposing the Potemkin village.
    -> UN becomes even more irrelevant than it is now. Regional blocs only.
    -> Large-scale technological/epidemiological/ecological disaster.
    -> Cities become even more ungovernable/unlivable than now and are unable to retain the people or buy the resources they need to keep functioning.
    -> General de-skilling of population.

  39. El Dato says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    It was the end of the Bush years.

    The promise was about reconstruction at home, stop of pointless wars, reining in of the TLAs, restoration of civil rights (no more PATRIOT act bullshit an militarized police), going after the reckless financiers, green-saving, throwing out neocons, putting the Armani-clad bums of the last 8 years into prison.

    Instead what happened was whitewash of everything, same old faces, continued wars, snide remarks, general status quo, neocons on TV and Zuckerberg/Dorsey/Brin products as a consolation prize.

  40. The correct term is “illegal alien.” Alien is the longstanding term for a person who is physically located within the boundaries of any country of which he/she is not a citizen. Illegal is the correct adjective for an act not in accordance with the law. Not only the crossing of a border without a visa but also overstaying a visa makes the perpetrator’s presence illegal. Thus any alien who continues to be in a country without a valid visa or actual immigration document like a “Green Card” is illegal every minute that passes. The correct discription, illegal alien, was abandoned by the media and the professors because its connotations were clearly negative. They would surely prefer a term like “refugee fleeing from conditions created by white male corporate executives” but that is too hard a sell, so they settled for “undocumented immigrant” as if the traveler simply forgot to accomplish a bit of paperwork.

  41. I can’t see things developing into a shooting war, that is a true civil war. (Although Daniel Chisholm has an interesting take on this possibility). The more likely scenario is that the US become Brasil del norte, where a sort of pigmentocracy prevails. a diminishing proportion of whites and east Asians in gated communities surrounded by a roiling mass of blacks and browns and everything in between. I truly cannot envisage any alternative outcome.

  42. Jonathan Haidt is a tad too friendly and very sensitive. This mixture is good for being a psychologist, but it generates a certain weakness when it comes to having a decent look at society as it is – with all its conundrums and dark edges, etc. So – Jonathan Haidt’s pessimism is nothing to worry about. Just the regular déformation professionelle. And his books are good, just a tad too softheaded, hehe.

  43. sb says:

    What a well mannered chap saying ( when he remembers ) Gen Zed rather than Gen Zee for an Australian audience

    Have to admit though that I have trouble presuming a New York Jew would have the gentile horde’s best interests at heart

    Note that a public broadcaster uses a non white interviewer ( Australian commercial broadcaster are pretty much all white with only the occasional good looking Asian female )

  44. David says:

    In the 1640’s Hobbes wrote, “The universities have been to this nation as the wooden horse was to the Trojans.”

  45. @Microwave Surfer

    ALMOST a fair point.

    The prediction I made in 1997 was the sh*t would hit the fan in 15 +- 5 years, meaning a window from 2007-2017, due to the unstable nature of an economy based on a large discrepancy of income and wealth. That was based on observing the three previous times our society had encountered such a discrepancy: the 1760s-early 1770s, right before the Revolution; the 1850s right before the Civil War; and the 1920s right before the Great Depression and WWII.

    I say ALMOST, because there are variables beyond my control.

    There was a big economic crash in 2008, so some sh*t hit the fan. However, the US (the Fed, Bush with the aid of both parties in Congress, and Obama only with the aid of Democrats in Congress) took some action to keep the economy from complete disaster. China took much MORE action, and fared better than the US. Iceland took truly drastic action, with an enormous house cleaning sending banksters to prison, and did far better than the rest of Europe. The Euro zone did diddly squat and basically the US and China and Iceland wound up taking up the burden.

    The US averted disaster, but did NOT do a house cleaning. Many expected Obama to do a house cleaning. He did not. Many expected Trump to do a house cleaning. He did not. The underlying problems did not go away. Some aspects of our economy are even worse now than in 2008, and others are only slightly improved.

    So my prediction came partly true, and partly did not come true. I fear the first aid merely postponed the inevitable, and when the crash does come, it will be even worse. Similar to the Compromise of 1850 which didn’t stop the Civil War, but merely postponed the Civil War until a time when the weapons of war were far more deadly.

    I see the path we are on now, and the situation in this country, and this world, are significantly worse than the situation in 1997, when I predicted 15 +- 5 years to calamity.

    In 1997 we were not at war. Now we are involved in two endless wars, with a third war threatening in Iran. Not to mention the problems with North Korea. Not to mention that a country with nuclear weapons — India — seems to be hell-bent on provoking war with another nuclear power — Pakistan.

    In 1997 the Federal deficit was large, but we were starting to run a surplus. Now we are much more heavily in debt, and looking at an extra $1 trillion + per year.

    In 1997 we were starting to do something about environmental degradation, including global warming. Now the situation is much worse, with a president who denies it is even happening. And much of the Amazon is on fire.

    In 1997 the rent was too damn high. Now it is several times higher, even adjusted for inflation, in many parts of the country.

    In 1997 we had SOME problems with credit card debt and housing debt. In 2008 the combination led to a bubble, which popped, leading to a lot of foreclosures and bankruptcies. Now, the problems with credit card debt and housing debt are almost as bad as 2008, plus the problems with student loan debt and automobile debt have skyrocketed.

    In 1997 the Left and Right seemed to dislike each other, but sometimes Gingrich and Clinton could work together. Now, the Left and Right despise each other. A great deal of the blame has to go to people like Mitch McConnell, who when Obama took office decided he’d rather the country completely crash than work with Obama. Now the Democrats are even less likely to work with Trump.

    At this point, I would say we are absolutely headed for disaster. But, I was wrong in 2008, because the folks in Washington and Beijing had some tricks to save the economy. I hope I am wrong.

    But I fear I am not.

    We look at the massive deficit. The GOP wants to cut taxes, and the Democrats want to increase spending. Neither would help the deficit much.

    We look at the state of the planet. One of the biggest problems is overpopulation. The Right wants to solve the issue by limiting family planning. The Left wants to solve the issue with unlimited immigration, so countries which can’t or won’t control their populations can dump their surplus on the countries which do. The we have Pope Francis, who says we must change our lifestyles to save the planet, but don’t you DARE use a condom or prevent anyone from the Third World from immigrating to your country.

    I look at some of the more intelligent Cassandras in the past few decades. In MOST cases, their predictions either came true, or what happened was even worse than what they predicted.

    I can only think of two times when the really bad predictions did NOT come true.

    One was my prediction of a severe event, either a major war or depression, between 2007-2017. This did not come true because of a great deal of action in Beijing and Washington.

    Another prediction was Gaylord Nelson’s FIRST warnings about what would happen if we didn’t clean up the environment. This one did not come true because both major parties joined together to solve the problem. We got unleaded gas, catalytic converters, the Clean Air Act, the EPA, etc. The quality of air and water in this country greatly improved. Anyone who remembers what cities were like in the old days can attest to that.

    However, Gaylord Nelson’s SECOND warnings are being ignored. He warned that we must cut immigration and have ZPG in the US and the entire planet.

  46. We look at the state of the planet. One of the biggest problems is overpopulation. The Right wants to solve the issue by limiting family planning. The Left wants to solve the issue with unlimited immigration, so countries which can’t or won’t control their populations can dump their surplus on the countries which do.

    Yes, except the right doesn’t want to solve the issue. It sees overpopulation as a benefit: more customers, more housing buyers. A few brave souls on the right whisper that white overpopulation should exceed POC overpopulation. “Growth” for me, not so much for thee.

    “Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.” — Edward Abbey

  47. Twinkie says:

    give a working man a million dollars and he will buy a new pickup and have a couple more kids.

    While I share your sentiment of lionizing the tradesmen who labor with their hands over the overly intellectual elites, the above statement isn’t true. Lottery winners are overwhelmingly from the working class and many, perhaps most of them, turn out badly.

  48. Kronos says:

    It’s interesting, Roosh V makes a solid argument that being a “player” (multiple one night stands with women on a regular basis) ended somewhere in 2010. That perhaps the decreasing social penalties of sexual relations with random people created a backlash. That a unsaid tenant of feminism is to create an emergency “market ceiling (or floor 🤫) on human relations.
    BTW the book it titled “Game.”

    • Replies: @jack daniels
  49. Kronos says:

    Keep in mind, it likely stems from the MSM giving groups/organizations with extremely high cultural objectives media time. Those groups like BLM and LGBT have very low economic/foreign policy objectives. They might babble about economic reform and stuff but those are likely sacrificial tokens for the negotiation table.

  50. Cato says:

    The people who wish for civil war mistakenly believe that it will be an experience they can watch on television. They should instead try to imagine what happened in Syria.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  51. @Noman

    Somewhat incorrect to say that a person is illegal.
    Actions can be legal or illegal.

    That is a reasonable position, and reasonable people could disagree on the issue.

    However, that discussion was _banned_ in 2013, and reporters could get _fired_ _immediately_ if they did not speak or write the words they were ordered to speak or write.

    _That_ is the point.

  52. @Smith

    “Civil war in the US would be the best thing to happen to the US and the world.”

    Try to control your emotional thinking a bit. How about a velvet divorce like the Czech and Slovak Republics? We can see which one fails first – the Moochers or the Authoritarians.

    Oh, and let the libertarians and anarchists/panarchists have South Carolina.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  53. The default setting for human-chimp beings is the morality of hunter-gatherers: Care/Harm, Fairness/Cheating, and Liberty/Oppression.

    The other moral foundations likely developed later.

  54. John Derbyshire is the Alt Right’s version of Rod Dreher, a conservative who can’t open his mouth without gushing and jizzing over some Jewish intellectual who agrees with 10% of what he says.
    First it’s the incredibly over-rated Amy Wax, then it’s Jonathan Haidt, whose claim to attention is that he’s 50% more reasonable than the average intellectual named ‘Jonathan.’ Who’s next, John? Dennis Prager?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  55. @Kronos

    Hard to imagine a flood of women giving it up for Roosh V. He must have had a pretty low bar.

    • Replies: @Kronos
  56. @Drapetomaniac

    We’ll take it – beautiful places and smiling faces…

    and not so many Yankees except down in the low country exurbs of Charleston.

  57. Kronos says:
    @jack daniels

    He found a niche and applied the principles of supply and demand. Also, you can hook-up with quality chicks if only for just a one-night-stand. The book “Game” is really good. Many things that would typically appear obvious has been purged by Feminism’s “Cultural Revolution” since the 1960s. If you’ve been born and raised after that point-in-time things have just gotten more opaque. Divorced cuckservative dads’ won’t provide any advice if any. You think David French is going to provide any good pointers to his adopted kids?

    Keep in mind most of Roosh’s “Victory Parades” were during the 2000s. An apparently distant mystical time without social media and smartphones. These two variables really changed the game. It made (short-term and long-term) dating more difficult (for guys most of all) and proved a massive asset to SJWs. (It generally provided losers with a magic wand to bash in the heads of the cool kids.)

    I keep recalling Tom Wolfe’s 2004 book “My Name is Charlotte Simmons.” I attended College a few years AFTER the book was published and the social dynamics only appeared to change with more intensity. (Keep in mind I only read the book a year ago and based on past observations.) The loser chicks who sat in the hallways without dates/hookups (in the book) would find social media the best means of spreading their pain and suffering (in reality.) Big Brother ultimately became Big Sister. With many demonstrating the “if I can’t have fun you can’t either” mentality. Chicks also had/have to worry about pissed-off ex-boyfriends keeping and spreading once-upon-a-time confidential nude photos. This and the fact that most Millennials are flat-ass broke has really damaged the socio/sexual marketplace. “Hey baby, dinner is on my EBT card tonight.”

  58. Hibernian says:

    They think they can have a tiger by the tail and still not be bitten. In a real social cataclysm, estates with high walls and condos in luxury buildings with doormen won’t be much protection.

  59. Hibernian says:
    @jack daniels

    Dennis Prager is a big hypocrite and resume inflator but a lot of what he says is common sens. Also he doesn’t have quite the tendency to charge Antisemitism at the drop of the hat as others do.

  60. BB753 says:

    It won’t be much of a civil war since Liberals control government and the military. It would last 10 minutes.

  61. L Woods says:

    Is a STEM master’s really some kind of ticket to a good expat life though? Seems to me that STEM types are flooding into the US, not out of it.

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