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China Has Problems In New Bipolar World—But U.S. Has Worse
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[Excerpted from the latest Radio Derb, now available exclusively through VDARE.com]

See also: GOP Plans To Scapegoat China. But That Must Include ENDING CHINESE IMMIGRATION!

One thing that, it seems to me, is much more apparent than it was three months ago: we are living in a bipolar world, or soon shall be.

I know a bipolar world when I see one. I spent my first 45 years in one: the world of the Cold War, dominated by the USA and the USSR.

That bipolar world ended twenty-nine years ago. For a while thereafter the USA stood supreme, economically and militarily.

We still do, actually, on indices like per capita GDP and forces deployed overseas. Communist China’s been coming up fast, though. It’s plain they are aiming for parity with us, regional—I mean, in Asia—if not global. Perhaps they are aiming for global dominance.

Whether they are or not, we are heading into a bipolar world once again. People are waking up fast to this. The coronavirus pandemic has us thinking and talking about China in a way that we weren’t before, not in the public realm at any rate. Some sour-faced skeptics and grouches on the commentarial fringes, like your acerbically genial Radio Derb host, were talking that way; now it’s well-nigh universal.

As I write this, China’s national legislature, the National People’s Congress, has just completed the first day of its 2020 annual session. Here are a couple of headliners from this first day:

  1. For the first time in thirty years, there will be no announced target for GDP growth this year—that’s Gross Domestic Product, a key economic indicator.
  2. There will be revisions to the Basic Law that defines the status of Hong Kong. The point of the revisions will be to “safeguard national security in Hong Kong.” [NPC: China’s congress will be about Hong Kong, the virus and the economy, BBC, May 24, 2020]

What does any of this mean. And why should Americans care?

To take the first part of that question first: What it means is that these are some of the decisions worked out by the ChiCom Party bosses in secret meetings these past weeks.

I italicized the words “some of” in that last sentence to emphasize that these are decisions the Party bosses want to make public. For sure there are many more they don’t want made public.

The NPC is not really a legislature in any dictionary sense. It’s Totalitarian Theater. There is very occasionally—two or three times per decade—some muffled resistance to edicts from the Politburo; but even those have had a staged quality about them, and were probably just a theatrical way of settling some minor power struggle at the top.

Still, the NPC is not without value for outside observers. The things that are announced, like the two items I have noted, give clues as to what the Party bosses are thinking. Carefully scrutinized and sensibly interpreted, they can give us the lie of the land.

  • China’s economic pincer.

From my first point about the NPC announcements—about there being no GDP growth target this year–we can deduce that the ChiComs are seriously worried about China’s economy.

Like our economy and everyone else’s, China’s economy has taken a big hit from the pandemic and the measures taken to slow or contain it. There have been huge employment losses in both manufacturing and services, in a nation with much less of a social safety net than ours [A slump exposes holes in China’s welfare state, Economist, May 7 2020].

The thought of a couple hundred million hungry, angry, unemployed workers gives ChiCom bosses the heebie-jeebies.

And this couldn’t be happening at a worse time for China’s economy, which is looking at a pincer trap. I’ll describe the two arms of the pincer in turn as 1) the Past Arm and 2) the Future Arm.

The past thirty years have been a sensational boom time for China, with living standards rising faster, I think, than anywhere else, ever, in modern history. By the end of the 2010s, though, the low-hanging fruit had all been picked, and the rate of improvement was slowing.

That is one arm of the economic pincer—call it the Past Arm.

And now there is widespread anger and suspicion towards China among its former trading partners—the countries that, by opening their markets and exporting their factories, made the Chinese economic miracle possible. The developed countries of North America, Western Europe, and Australasia are waking to the fact that we have sold the Chinese Communist Party a whole lot of rope with a gift card attached saying “Please Hang Us.” They are backing off from China.

There is even talk of boycotts. In a poll done mid-May, forty percent of Americans said they won’t buy products made in China. [Americans Are Giving Made-in-China the Cold Shoulder, by Brendan Murray, Bloomberg, May 17, 2020 ]

It’s the same all over. Some headline-writer at the London Daily Mail has taken up Radio Derb’s Godfather theme:

PM “Moves To End UK’s Reliance On China For Essential Supplies And Manufacturing” Amid Fury At Its Coronavirus “Cover-Up” As Beijing Hawk MP Accuses Regime Of Acting Like The “Mafia”. By David Wilcock, May 17, 2020

So, looking forward, the era of Western countries blithely helping the ChiComs to consolidate their power, domestic popularity, and international influence by jacking up their economy, are over.

That’s the other arm of the pincer—call it the Future Arm.

The Past Arm: no more low-hanging fruit.

The Future Arm: no more illusions about the regime we’ve been enabling this past thirty years.

  • What the status of Hong Kong means

What the ChiComs are proposing for Hong Kong reinforces the Future Arm of the economic pincer.

Under the agreement with Britain that handed the city back to China 23 years ago, the ChiComs promised that Hong Kongers would enjoy British levels of social and political freedom, or at least something closer to them than the mainland dictatorship, until 2047.

Well, that promise will no longer be operative. It was just a convenient lie assented to by the ChiComs while they pumped up their economy.

I spoke of the NPC giving us clues about the lie of the land behind the closed doors of ChiCom deliberating. Lie of the land? Politically, China is the Land of the Lie. Strategic lying is not just an occasional aberration in their diplomacy, it is all of it.

ORDER IT NOW

The Hong Kong demonstrators this past year have shown feisty spirit [ Rally against HK national security law on Sunday , by Jeff Pao, Asia Times, May 22, 2020]. It’s not likely that bringing the city back into the warm embrace of the Motherland can be accomplished without highly visible repression, possibly on the scale of Tiananmen Square in 1989, but much more amply recorded in this age of the cellphone camera. [Hong Kong Protest Movement Left Reeling by China’s Power Grab, by Vivian Wang and Austin Ramzy, NYT, May 24, 2020]

That will just further reinforce the ChiComs’ image as a thuggish gangster clique, fortifying the Future Arm of the pincer, shredding any illusions Western populations still have about the nature of the ChiCom regime.

Did I mention Tiananmen Square? Eh: just a few antisocial troublemakers in need of stern law enforcement. Tibet, Taiwan, and Eastern Turkestan? Integral parts of China since ancient times. Fifty years of autonomy for Hong Kong? Absolutely! —where do we sign? If we are admitted to the World Trade Organization, shall we observe the rules? Of course we shall! COVID-19 originated in China? Certainly not; it was brought in by visiting U.S. soldiers. [China Spins Tale That the U.S. Army Started the Coronavirus Epidemic, by Steven Lee Myers, NYT, March 13, 2020]

The world is awakening from its dream of China as a trustworthy commercial nation whose public declarations mean what they say. Communist China is the Land of the Lie.

So … this coming new bipolar world is nothing to worry about, right? The ChiComs are going to get crushed in that economic pincer I’ve been describing, right? And Uncle Sam will sail on forward into the middle 21st century as the dominant world power, right?

Well, there are many possible futures, and that is one of them. It’s by no means the most probable one, though. China has advantages, and we have dis-advantages, that could shape the future in a Chinese direction.

I’d list China’s main advantages as three:

  1. Despotism, which makes it easier to get some things done.
  2. A big Smart Fraction. Smart Fraction Theory argues that “national wealth is determined by the fraction of workers with IQ equal to or greater than some minimum value.” [The Smart Fraction Theory of IQ and the Wealth of Nations, La Griffe Du Lion, March 2002]
  3. Demographic homogeneity; low levels of ethnic diversity and ethnomasochism.

To the first point there, the one about despotism: Look, I really don’t want to live under the ChiComs; and I speak as a person who did live under them for a year. There is no denying, though, that despotism has its advantages, especially in technological development. Exhibit A: China’s high-speed rail system. Where is ours?

The second point, about a big Smart Fraction, has a link with the first. The name of the link is “eugenics,” both positive and negative.

Positive eugenics means encouraging people with positive heritable traits to breed; negative eugenics means dis-couraging—or actually forbidding—people with negative traits to do so. The despotic power of course gets to decide the definitions of “positive” and “negative” and the degree of coercion.

Are the ChiComs interested in eugenics? Oh yeah. I had things to say about this in my November Diary last year, to which I refer you.

It’s the third point that most powerfully addresses American weakness. China has some ethnic diversity, but it’s mostly out at the territorial fringes, in occupied Tibet, Mongolia, and Eastern Turkestan. The great majority of China’s population—and an overwhelming supermajority in metropolitan China, away from those fringes—is of a single ethny. If the Chinese withdrew from those occupied fringes, China would be the world’s most homogenous big nation.

This spares China from all the rancors and disorders that sap so much of our social and political energy.

Not only are China’s minority ethnies proportionally much smaller than ours, the Han Chinese supermajority is not split down the middle as our own white just-barely-majority is.

It is not the case that one half of the Han Chinese loathes and despises the other half. No Chinese politician ever sought advantage by describing half of his fellow Chinese as “deplorables.” No public intellectual in China ever wrote that “The yellow race is the cancer of human history” as Susan Sontag wrote of the white race to which she herself belonged. Ethnomasochism is a white pathology.

And as social dogma, quite a recent one. Susan Sontag wrote her words in 1967. You can take them as the beginning of the rise of white ethomasochism to its present position as a major social dogma.

There is a line of American commentary on China, argued most clearly and persistently by David Goldman at Asia Times (now apparently with Gordon Chang also on board) telling us that we Americans should consider ourselves to be in a Sputnik Moment: a moment in history where, if we don’t stop the fruitless squabbling and begin engaging in some serious, co-ordinated national effort, the ChiComs will eat our lunch, breezing past us in key technologies like artificial intelligence, big data, microchip fabrication, and quantum computing.

The problem with that prescription is that the original Sputnik Moment, to which America reacted with such spectacular success, occurred in 1957, a whole decade B.S.—”Before Sontag.”

White ethnomasochism was not entirely unknown in 1957, but it was restricted to tiny cliques of urban intellectuals.

We could make a united national response to Sputnik sixty years ago because we were a sufficiently united nation. You need that qualifying word “sufficiently” there because there was what people of the time called “the Negro Problem.”

White Americans didn’t think about black Americans any more than they absolutely had to, though, and the race issue didn’t split whites down the middle as clearly and angrily as in what I call today’s Cold Civil War.

Sputnik-wise, we were a sufficiently united nation—sufficiently to co-operate in a colossal national effort with a minimum of bickering.

If we had been at today’s level of social rancor back in 1957, would we have been able to get to a Moon landing in just twelve years?

Of course not. It would have taken us twelve years just to figure out and litigate, appeal, re-litigate, and re-appeal the Affirmative Action protocols for staffing Mission Control.

Above, the almost entirely white male staff of NASA’s Mission Control, the day men landed on the moon.

John Derbyshire [email him] writes an incredible amount on all sorts of subjects for all kinds of outlets. (This no longer includes National Review, whose editors had some kind of tantrum and fired him.) He is the author of We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism and several other books. He has had two books published by VDARE.com com: FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT (also available in Kindle) and FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT II: ESSAYS 2013.

(Republished from VDare by permission of author or representative)
 
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  1. Mathew says:

    This essay, although well written as usual, peers at China through the badly smudged spectacles of Western “exceptionalism”.

    The United States is rapidly degenerating into a failed state with over 40 million freshly unemployed and more coming, with zero income, medical care or social safety net. Even prior to COVID-19, the U.S. industrial capability had already been wiped out thanks to decades of Wall Street capitalism. The U.S. is incapable of manufacturing a pair of shoelaces much less a refrigerator. And it will be decades before the U.S. could regain that capability, even if Wall Street were to permit (which it won’t).

    Militarily, the U.S. is an absolutely no position to challenge China. China and Russia have become a single unified block militarily, economically, technologically and even politically. Second, the U.S. military is second rate. Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria… all U.S. military surrenders. Most recently the U.S. military surrendered to the Taliban in Afghanistan. What makes it think it could challenge a China/Russian military equipped with hyper-sonic missiles and sophisticated electronic warfare capability? Syria proved Russian military superiority.

    The U.S. is a rapidly aging, depopulating, deindustrializing and failing empire. Without China, none of us would even have the keyboard or computer equipment necessary to write or respond to this useless essay.

    Mathew

  2. What an excellent summary, Mr. Derbyshire! I first thought I had nothing to add to, or argue about, this post, but I did notice that you had not much detail about the financial states of our 2 countries. We would probably lose in a comparison there too, especially after this Kung Flu Panic-Fest is fully taken advantage of. However, the Chinese government has big financial problems of its own.

    Oh, OK, I’ll nitpick one thing: High-speed trains work for China (not saying they make a profit, AFAIK, though) because Chinese people live in big cities so these trains can go from big city to big city. Their big cities are EVERYWHERE, not just along 2 coastlines. In America, our inner cities are filled with people that we don’t want anywhere near us on any trains, and most people live out in suburbs or even exurbs. If you have to drive 15-30 minutes, then park, to get to the train, you may as well head to the airport. (Mr. Sailer, BTW, brought up the first part of this reasoning almost 2 years ago.)

    See Peak Stupidity‘s comparison post Trains in the Orient vs. America. (It mentions Japan and Europe as well, and has some rough time calculations to show my point.)

    Anyway, thank you for this great summary of these bipolar relations. I know you’re going to hear some noisy feedback from the Commie Commentary Contingent. I ask the readers to take these people for what they really are – the same anti-society rabble-rousers that have been seen throughout recent history, taking advantage whenever times are bad – see Commies crawling out of the woodwork… it’s about that time . They also display here the other meaning of the term “bipolar”.

    • Agree: Poco
  3. anonymous[365] • Disclaimer says:

    Another Exceptional! column from Uncle Sam’s most loyal fan. This purported dissident cites a NYT article back in March to defend his embarrassing Chinadiditry.

    What’s the nature/nurture ratio for immigrant fealty?

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Realist
  4. In the old bipolar world there was a balance of power. The US and Soviets prevented nuclear Armageddon because ultimately they were able to avoid their core interests colliding. Of course the USSR collapsed, but Russia remained. In the new bipolar world, Washington and Beijing are on course for war, with the Russian Federation aligned with China. The new bipolar landscape will end in nuclear destruction because, unlike the first one, governments do not see it coming.
    https://www.ghostsofhistory.wordpress.com/

  5. Golly! Derb is losing it and, along the way, getting China 110% wrong. Let us count just a few of the ways:

    decisions worked out by the ChiCom Party bosses in secret meetings these past weeks.

    The PRC has the most transparent of any major government and by far the most aligned to popular needs.

    The NPC is not really a legislature in any dictionary sense. It’s Totalitarian Theater.

    Twaddle. Just because it’s not a Capitalist rubber stamp like the US Congress (watch the vote on the Patriot Act, 1100 pages not one Congressperson had read), doesn’t mean it’s toothless. Read Data-Driven Democracy. https://www.unz.com/article/chinas-congresses-in-action/

    From my first point about the NPC announcements—about there being no GDP growth target this year–we can deduce that the ChiComs are seriously worried about China’s economy.

    We could, of course, deduce that it has other priorities, like jobs for everyone, but that would just be wild speculation if it weren’t for the fact that the PM announced that change in priorities. Btw, the GDP growth targets have always been secondary to the principal economic target: doubling wages every ten years.

    The thought of a couple hundred million hungry, angry, unemployed workers gives ChiCom bosses the heebie-jeebies.

    How odd that a government would care. Clearly, ours doesn’t.

    The developed countries of North America, Western Europe, and Australasia are waking to the fact that we have sold the Chinese Communist Party a whole lot of rope with a gift card attached saying “Please Hang Us.” They are backing off from China.

    Nonsense. They’re doubling down. China will remain the world’s favorite destination for FDI through 2035 because it’s the only game in town.

    The world is awakening from its dream of China as a trustworthy commercial nation whose public declarations mean what they say. Communist China is the Land of the Lie.

    Unlike the treacherous and unreliable United States, China has honored every treaty and agreement it has made.

  6. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:

    lol NASA was German engineers working with Jewish physicist working against Russians.

    Well the Jews no longer do physics, you find them in business and liberal arts(Ron Unz has mentioned in articles, the decline of American Jewry

    Jews were over one-quarter of the top students in the Physics Olympiad from 1986 to 1997, but have fallen to just 5 percent over the last decade, a result which must surely send Richard Feynman spinning in his grave.

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-racial-discrimination-at-harvard/ ) , while the Germans have a unified Germany to protect.

    Where o where will Americans get High IQ immigrants to run their space program?

    American farm boys can’t manage it because of the decline of rural life in America. If America decides to produce a film that would be the modern equivalent of October Sky, it would be about Chinese and Indian students getting jobs at NASA, and maybe a hapa thrown in.

    Doesn’t really inspire one to proclaim HAIL EVROPA.

    We are entering the Chinese Century and they have earned it. It may be a good thing for the world, especially for Europe as long as the Europeans reject joining a sinking international bloc with a collapsing America as the anchor. one can be a nationalist and praise and support the Chinese communist party. It is not the Chinese communist party that flooded Europe with NATO war refugees, and promoted neoliberalism and sent Europeans to die in the middle east in the name of Israeli interest. May Europe wake up and exit NATO.

  7. Svevlad says:

    it’s a cold war between the ideological-economic narrative (US and satellites), and this… Ethnic-economic? (China + Russia) one.

    But the country of the future is neither the US or China. Think about it. Who stands to gain the most from this? Who is very chummy to China, yet also seeks to be amicable with the West?

    • Replies: @hattermadder76
    , @Anon
  8. Biff says:

    No Chinese politician ever sought advantage by describing half of his fellow Chinese as “deplorables.”

    Bwaaaah!!…. Nails it.

  9. @Mathew

    “Math – ew.”

    • Troll: Herald
    • Replies: @Mathew
  10. Mathew says:
    @JohnPlywood

    The truth hurts, and requires courage. You appear to be American.

    • Replies: @Wally
  11. anonymous[293] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    Just examine a couple sentences:

    For a while thereafter the USA stood supreme, economically and militarily.

    We still do, actually, on indices like per capita GDP and forces deployed overseas.

    Measuring a “supreme” economy with per capita GDP allows a Bezos and a Gates to carry thousands of minimum wage + GrubHub gig workers.

    And he’s proud that “we” lead the world in overseas military deployments. Those Gold Stars have to be earned somewhere, don’t they?

    • Replies: @Poco
    , @Bill Jones
  12. Behind the scenes the US military is preparing to undertake a suicidal conflict versus China.

    http://www.leta.lv/eng/defence_matters_eng/defence_matters_eng/news/1A95179C-13B3-4C27-A841-B082E614327E/

    The elites who run America are truly brain dead and evil. If we’re still here in 10 years it will be because of a miracle.

    • Replies: @Realist
    , @follyofwar
  13. Tor597 says:

    This article is full of cope and schadenfreude.

    China is going to see declining returns on being a low level manufacturer which is why China is shifting towards more technologically advanced manufacturing and shifting towards increasing their domestic consumption.

    Derb and other white people would love to treat China like a colony where it would forever serve as the slave labor to manufacture your cheap shit. But as soon as China starts to improve the lives of their own citizens the west cries about Chinese slave labor lol.

    And don’t get me started on “liberties for HK”. The UK treated HK brutally, chopping heads off of locals who did not comply.

    There will be a great bifurcation seeing the west decline badly, but not because China Did It! Because the west was built on a house of petro dollar cards that are about to come tumbling down.

  14. Neuday says:
    @Anonymous

    Where o where will Americans get High IQ immigrants to run their space program?

    I think the idea is that if enough money is spent on educating Blacks and if Whites would stop oppressing Blacks so much then a flood of sassy Black women with supportive, fully domesticated Black husbands will run our space program.

    • LOL: Realist, europeasant
    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  15. As always a good article John

    However when Susan Sontag said “The white race is the cancer of human history; it is the white race and it alone” she doesn’t include herself and the tribe as part of the cancer, she hated us, by now this should be clear

    • Agree: mark green
    • Replies: @BlackFlag
  16. Realist says:
    @anonymous

    Another Exceptional! column from Uncle Sam’s most loyal fan.

    Someone told Derbyshire that if he didn’t kiss Uncle Sam’s ass they would send him back.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
    , @anon
  17. Realist says:
    @AD70titusrevenge

    The elites who run America are truly brain dead and evil.

    They believe their wealth and power will protect them from a conflict between the US and Russia/China.

  18. Kouros says:

    I think for a more balanced presentation, the derision and hatred directed at ChiComs, should be similar for the US, as the Oligarchical Republic self appointed representative of private capital hell bent in owning the world.

    • Agree: Mefobills
  19. @Anonymous

    Where o where will Americans get High IQ immigrants to run their space program?

    South Africa via Canada

  20. TG says:

    Interesting post.

    As regards whether ethnic homogeneity is a strength or not, well, it is, and it isn’t, depending on your values.

    So in China, when Mao demanded that everyone have seven kids each (“strength through numbers”) and purged honest economists like Ma Yinchu, the resulting inevitable poverty nearly tore the country apart: even the “ChiComs” had trouble keeping order. In desperation, they moved to one-family one-child (a kind of binge-and-purge, they would have been so much better off if the had only encouraged people to not have more children than they could reasonably support, but that’s another story).

    Meanwhile over in India, continued high sustained fertility rates create miserable sub-medieval poverty, and there is currently no chance of revolt. I propose it’s because India is so ethically diverse: all the different races and sects etc. can’t unite in rebellion, they are too busy fighting each other.

    So ethnic homogeneity is good, in that it is conducive to a stable and powerful nation that can achieve great things. But ethnic homogeneity is bad, at least for the elites, because it makes it easier for the people to revolt, and the elites have to worry at least a little bit about the downside of crushing the average person into the mud.

    India is a miserable hovel for the average worker (sorry, it’s true) and in terms of geostrategic power, India is a dwarf compared to China. But all that lovely cheap labor – for the people at the top in India, the profits flow easily without concern of revolt, they have entire skyscrapers as personal dwellings staffed with hundreds of servants. I very much doubt that would be possible if India were an ethnic monoculture like China is today, or the US (nearly) was in 1957…

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  21. @Achmed E. Newman

    The inner cities are filled with people we’d rather not have on an airplane with us either.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  22. Dumbo says:

    A pox on both houses. China is slightly better than the USA, at least they don’t want to flood all countries with immigrants, and sell propaganda about race-mixing African males with European women (aka Hollywood movies), and promote globo-homo and trans-genderism. On the other hand, the Chinese are inhuman with children and animals, and kill rhinos and tigers to use them as viagra, and are authoritarian, but at least they tend to leave people alone. Their negative effect on Europe would be that Europe wouldn’t be able to get rid of all the Chinese living there.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  23. BlackFlag says:
    @(((They))) Live

    Derb is running Midwestern 90s goy schtick.

  24. Dutch Boy says:

    I wonder what Derb would say about Ron Unz’s contention that the Tiananmen Square massacre never happened? As for white ethnic masochism, that is driven by a certain unnamed ethnic group which dominates media in this country. Fortunately for the Chinese, that group exerts no influence in China.

  25. I couldn’t read much first after the Hong Kong nonsense. Do you have any clue what the Basic Law says? The National Security Law is enshrined in the Basic Law that it must be passed. Hong Kong was handed back to China in 1997…

    • Agree: Godfree Roberts
  26. @Tor597

    Indeed. The only reason they are trying to cut off Huawei is because Huawei has become too advanced for their liking. Not even the British bought the “spying” talk. Only Australia and Japan obeyed Washington’s order. So now they are trying bullying. But China has too many high IQ engineers to be held down for too long.

  27. Exile says:

    On Hong Kong, given what the U.S. has done in Ukraine and tried to do repeatedly in the ME and Venezuela with fake “color revolutions,” China would be stupid to not scrap the existing timetable for Hong Kong’s re-assimilation (and subsequent marginalization).

    Chicken-egg, maybe they never intended to honor the agreement, but our constant, ham-fisted meddling in everyone else’s sovereign affairs makes it impossible for observers to distinguish our own blowback from Chinese malfeasance.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  28. @Mathew

    This essay, although well written as usual, peers at China through the badly smudged spectacles of Western “exceptionalism”.

    Derbs concedes China has the edge over the West.

    It can get things done faster, has a big Smart Fraction plus is largely homogenous (low levels of ethnic diversity and ethnomasochism) as opposed to an increasingly multi-racial and fractured America – this is the reason he references 1957 when the United States was demographically like China today and got the space program going.

    As regards ChiComs, ‘despotism’, ‘thuggery’, Hong Kong etc my take is it is up to the Chinese and East Asians in general. People forget till 1988 booming South Korea was under essentially a military ruler.

    • Replies: @showmethereal
  29. @Tor597

    Derb and other white people would love to treat China like a colony where it would forever serve as the slave labor to manufacture your cheap shit. But as soon as China starts to improve the lives of their own citizens the west cries about Chinese slave labor lol.

    Slaves only benefit corporate overlords and their stockholders. Apple for instance recently moved some AirPods Pro manufacturing from China to Vietnam where wages are lower.

    Are you by any chance twins with Anonymous[175] (lol NASA …) above talking about Jewish physics guys? The same people who in America are for pushing for a new Cold War this time with China over a hundred years after they used Brits to force the country to trade in opium grown at their plantations in India.

  30. Russia was to feign a fall in order to help the chinese. The plan of the globalists al along was for china/russia/europe/india and USA to blow themselves to smithereens to that those that call themselves jews to have their captial in fake israel .

    Same old attage applies with the globalists tools , follow the money . Who doesn’t have a rothschild bank and who does . Yes the rothschilds are also being set up to take a fall for fake israel . satan’s house has been divided since Jesus Christ bound him .

    Jesus Christ’s house appears divided according to the world , but it was and will never be divided . For we are bound to the incorruptible SPIRIT which started everything for HIS purposes . Even the evil is bound by His designs .

    People may appear to have a brief stint of power , people may think they will overcome death by transplanting something of themselves into machines .

    Either strive to learn to love others as you love thyself or get busy dying

  31. … the ChiComs promised that Hong Kongers would enjoy British levels of social and political freedom, or at least something closer to them than the mainland dictatorship, until 2047.

    I dunno, Derb … when you look at the socio-political landscape of present-day Britain, the ChiComs could argue they are merely adjusting things in Hong Kong to match current British levels of social and political freedom.

    • Agree: Half Back
    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
  32. David Goldman’s piece a few days ago suggests that American lunch is being well and truly eaten. My emboldening.

    https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/the-asian-century-began-in-may-2020/

    [MORE]

    Economic historians may date the start of the Asian century to May 2020, when most Asian economies bounced back to full employment while the West languished in coronavirus lockdown. Asia has emerged as an economic zone as closely integrated as the European Union, increasingly insulated from economic shocks from the United States or Europe…

    Last week the US Commerce Department imposed controls on sales of semiconductors to Chinese firms on Washington’s “entity list,” if they are produced anywhere in the world with US technology. China’s telecommunications giant Huawei, the world leader in 5G broadband, designs its own chips and contracts their fabrication to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation, the world’s top chip foundry. TSMC uses American chip-making equipment and will fall under the ban. Industry analysts are waiting to see how strictly the US will enforce these rules, which have a 120-day grace period.

    As I wrote on May 18, this represents a bet-the-farm gamble on the part of the Trump Administration, which has failed to dissuade most of its allies from doing business with Huawei, which Washington labels a threat to US national security. A handful of US companies and Holland’s ASML now dominate the market for semiconductor fabrication equipment that can produce state-of-the-art chips. If the US prevents foundries around the world from selling to Huawei, the Chinese firm will have no source of high-end semiconductors. Huawei reportedly has a large inventory of chips; China’s semiconductor imports doubled between late 2017 and late 2018, suggesting that China has stockpiled chips as a precaution. The US ban if fully implemented would damage the Chinese firm.

    But that is the last card that Washington has to play. Semiconductor manufacturing equipment is America’s last control point among critical technologies. In US corporate boardrooms and engineers’ Internet chat rooms, the question is not whether, but when China will reverse engineer American or Dutch machines and produce its own. China may not be able to buy high-end computer chips, but it can hire all the chip engineers it wants anywhere in the world. Taiwan now dominates chip fabrication, and a tenth of Taiwan’s chip engineers are now working at double pay on the Chinese mainland, according to media reports…

    China still uses American software to design chips, and depends on Taiwanese foundries using US equipment. If China reaches self-sufficiency in chip production quickly, the last stronghold of US tech dominance will fall.

    See also the piece by a Chinese general, Qiao Liang, noted here

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/china-updates-its-art-of-hybrid-war/

    If the world is peaceful and everyone is at peace with each other, there is no problem. The US prints US dollars to buy products from all over the world, and the whole world works for the United States. All well and good.

    But when there is an epidemic or when there is a war, can a country without manufacturing be considered a powerful country? Even if you continue to have high technology, continue to have dollars, and there are US troops, all of these need manufacturing support. Without manufacturing, who supports your high technology? Who supports your dollar? Who supports your US military?

    (One point – aren’t the precision stepper motors for the masks in chipmaking a Japanese monopoly, likewise the ultra-pure silicon?)

  33. anon[533] • Disclaimer says:

    China has two aircraft carriers in the South China Sea right now. One was bought from the Ukraine back in the 90’s, and the second one is a copy of the first with some upgrades. A third is being built and a fourth one, with a nuclear reactor is being planned for a 2025-2030 timetable.

    China could perhaps be planning on using these carriers to intercept the U.S. out at sea, out of range of the fighters being able to bomb the mainland, butclose enough that when they are fired upon, China will have the excuse it needs to use those new-carrier-sinking-hypersonic-missiles if it ever comes to that.

    My persoal opinion is that the USA and NATO want to have confrontations with China and Russia sooner rather than later while the USA can still win them. If they win them, they will want to build bases there and not allow these countries to ever make really advanced weapons or ships that could defeat the USA’s military hardware. The USA would also want to scuttle their nukes as to leave them defenseless against our nukes.

    Our Deep State wants to be the dominant power on earth, not merely one of the Earths biggest 2 or 3 powers. I also think if we defeat China and Russia, we will force diversity on them to weaken them by making them sign refugee compacts ensuring they will lose their homogenaity very quickly. I think these two nations are realizing what the stakes are in this “pivot to Asia” that our national security think tanks have been pushing for since the Obama Administration. I imagine they will resist.

    For the sake of world peace, we need to replace our deep state and dismantle the think tanks that support them with studies and papers, replaceing them with Keenan-esqe policies instead of Kagan-esqe objectives.

    • Agree: buzzwar
    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
  34. @Sgt. Joe Friday

    No, that wasn’t my point, though, Sarge (that was just a little humor added on). My point was that most people who would want to travel by high-speed rail don’t live in inner cities. Some places get gentrified, but are there enough to fill up these trains that must run a lot each day to pay for the building of these railways?

    In China, it’s a different story. People are packed into cities, with many cities more populated than New York. Then, they have good public transit (where, true, per your reply, one would rather not certain people on there either, and, yea they’re not!) So, it could pay off to build these city-to-city high speed railways there. No way would it in America with the exceptions of Boston-New York-Washington and only maybe.

  35. Mr. Derbyshire, I would like to know if you have any news yourself from your personal source(s) about the following: The renewing of passports and issuing of new ones to Chinese people is apparently getting much more difficult now. They will find it more difficult to travel overseas. Do you know anything about that?

  36. If we had been at today’s level of social rancor back in 1957, would we have been able to get to a Moon landing in just twelve years?

    We all know the answer. In 1970, Gil Scott-Heron’s “Whitey On The Moon” was a dissenting voice. Now it is the orthodoxy.

  37. G. Poulin says:

    I get all manic-depressive just thinking about our bipolar world.

    • LOL: Alden
  38. Daniel H says:

    Data:
    China GDP is already 1.3 the size of ours. Historic GDP growth of China last 10 years, 6.x%. Historic GDP growth of USA last 10 years 2.x. China economy will shrug off this pandemic like a mild cold. Ours won’t.

    By 2030 Chin’s economy will be twice the size of the USA’s. If the relative difference between our GDP growth rates continues onward, in 20 years China’s GDP will be 3x our own. Plausible.

    If we engage in a cold war with China at the point that China has a GDP twice our own China will do to us what we did to the Soviets in the 70s and 80s: bleed us white and watch as we founder on the shoals of economic ruin. When China’s GDP is 3x our won we are not in the same league anymore. We will be a raw product exporter. A vassal to China inc.

    Do the math. Solve for t.

    2.0*e^(.02*t)=1.3*e^(.06*t)

  39. dvorak says:
    @Mathew

    U.S. industrial capability had already been wiped out thanks to decades of Wall Street capitalism

    If you wish to rant, go ahead. If you wish to be taken seriously, you should know that the US has had more and more manufacturing output every single year, since at least 1941.

    Not to say that it wouldn’t be even more if trade deficits were eliminated. But the plain fact remains that it is US manufacturing employment, not output, that has gone down. Our manufacturing base makes more than ever, and will make even more next year.

  40. lloyd says: • Website

    I lived in China, ten years, ten times more than Mr Derbyshire, and have a Chinese wife and stepson. They have both fled back to China. The ethnic differences are as one should imagine very diverse. The point is the Han (people) Chinese seem blithely unaware of them. Their dialect differences are about the same as England more than a hundred years ago. They are unified by an imposed common culture and Mandarin. Mandarin is actually fading out being replaced by English. Dialects are having a revival as convenience languages. The small minority that can’t speak a dialect are at a distinct academic advantage. Thus demonstrating Ron Unz’s argument about language teaching in schools. I agree with Mr Derbyshire their cheating is shameless and no allegiance to anything except the Chinese people . Most I am sure would love to be white and aspire for that. Ten years ago, there was extraordinary freedom of speech in China. But maybe only in English. The three ts, Tibet, Taiwan and Tianmen Square could not be discussed. But they were not political issues in China, and that left everything else open to discussion. Once Mr Xi took over, I noticed an almost overnight change to self discipline. That suited me fine as a teacher although I think him very sinister. Ever since Covid-19, the once fringe groups in Western socieites that seemed to have become invincible have suddenly got their comeuppance. If the recent shooting of the black jogger had happened pre Cover-19, there would have been riots and arsons over America. The entire incident seems as close to a lynching that could happen now. So the West is becoming like China pre Mr Xi.

    • Replies: @ThatDamnGood
    , @V. Hickel
  41. @Neuday

    “I think the idea is that if enough money is spent on educating Blacks and if Whites would stop oppressing Blacks so much then a flood of sassy Black women with supportive, fully domesticated Black husbands will run our space program.”

    … with big boobies, no less (the husbands too)…

  42. The only time a white man feels safe in his life is when his mommy is holding his hand. Stop crying Mr. British Opiumshire, I’m sure the Asians will show the same love for your people as you showed for everybody else in the last 400 years.

  43. @dvorak

    “… the US has had more and more manufacturing output every single year, since at least 1941. ”

    This is correct – a bit counter-intuitive given the pervasive propaganda to the contrary, but true nonetheless.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/2583/industrial-production-historical-chart

    “But the plain fact remains that it is US manufacturing employment, not output, that has gone down.”

    Again, a true statement.

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/07/25/most-americans-unaware-that-as-u-s-manufacturing-jobs-have-disappeared-output-has-grown/

    One could split hairs over the accounting methods used, but it does appear that the USA is still in the business of making stuff.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
    , @Herald
    , @FB
  44. So when can we start deporting Chinese immigrants and their rootless cosmopolitan spouses?

  45. @Godfree Roberts

    I’m not a China-basher, but can we really trust Chinese citizens to answer these questions frankly?

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  46. @TG

    Mao demanded that everyone have seven kids each (“strength through numbers”) and purged honest economists like Ma Yinchu, the resulting inevitable poverty nearly tore the country apart?

    Nonsense. Throughout his entire, 25-year tenure, Mao grew China’s economy twice as fast as America’s (then in its boom years) and much faster than any nation ever.

    By the end of the Cultural Revolution in 1976, China’s Gini coefficient reached an astonishing 0.16, the lowest ever recorded. Rural literacy was taken for granted and rural people, no longer ‘peasants,’ were as intolerant of oppression and corruption, as vocal about their priorities, as enthusiastic about voting, and as eager to express their complaints as their urban sisters and brothers. Most farm work had been mechanized and the decade had seen a twentyfold increase in tractors; a thirty-five-fold increase in diesel engines; a sixteen-fold increase in electric motors; a sevenfold increase in mills; a fiftyfold increase in grinders and a thirteen-fold increase in sprayers. For the first time in history peasants were full citizens and could point to the infrastructure they built, the agricultural advances they had made, and the problems they had solved. When asked about his proudest achievements, Mao answered, “Winning the war, of course, and the Cultural Revolution.”

    When he stepped down, Mao had reunited, reimagined, reformed, and revitalized the largest, oldest civilization on earth, modernized it after a century of failed modernizations, and ended millennia of famine. Despite the West’s crushing, twenty-five-year embargo on food, finance, technology, and medical and agricultural equipment, and its exclusion of China from the family of nations, he had banished invaders, bandits, and warlords; eliminated serious crime and drug addiction; doubled the population, its life expectancy and literacy; liberated its women and educated its girls; erased its wealth disparity; given it infrastructure; grown the economy twice as fast as the West’s; kept the country debt-free; led four revolutions and succeeded in three and his country was producing jet aircraft, locomotives, oceangoing ships, ICBMs, hydrogen bombs, and satellites.

    Today, ninety-eight percent of Chinese admire Mao. His image, like St. Christopher’s, adorns taxis and he stares down from the walls of offices, businesses, and restaurants, and upon Tiananmen Square. He destroyed the ancient myth of elite authority, altered the peasants’ destiny forever, and permanently altered China’s consciousness. Billionaires quote him daily. Emancipated Tibetan slaves burn incense before his shrines and, despite official discouragement, ten million visit his birthplace every year, more than all the people who visit all the world’s shrines.

  47. CBTerry says:

    I like how for an example of white ethnomasochism Derbyshire quotes a Jewish lesbian. He then correctly notes that “White ethnomasochism was not entirely unknown in 1957, but it was restricted to tiny cliques of urban intellectuals,” yet for some reason never gives any names — let alone the ethnic background — of those “urban intellectuals.”

    This from a man who wrote an article comparing Kevin MacDonald to Karl Marx.

    After it was revealed that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction, William Buckley, who had supported the war to take out those non-existent weapons, penned a mea culpa. Thomas J. Fleming, who unlike Buckley has never been invited to the White House or the parties of the Manhattan elite, wrote that if Buckley actually believed those transparent lies then he is a fool and should never comment on international matters again.

    John Derbyshire also believed those transparent lies.

    On international matters Derbyshire is as much of a fool as Buckley. Life is short so I do not waste my time with Derbyshire anymore, but my mother played me his broadcast of this column, which I found ridiculous enough to warrant a comment.

  48. WHAT says:
    @dvorak

    Lol, wake the world up when what`s left of your manufacturing base produces a single new tank hull.
    Or scratch that, make a sewer manhole cover at least.

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  49. @anon

    “My persoal opinion is that the USA and NATO want to have confrontations with China and Russia sooner rather than later while the USA can still win them.”

    It was exactly this kind of thinking that led to World War I. Germany wanted a war with Russia , and Britain wanted a war with Germany sooner rather than later, before the other got too powerful.

    • Replies: @David
  50. @Godfree Roberts

    Nobody believes you, Godfree. You are pissing into the wind. Nobody believes you.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  51. Antiwar7 says:

    This article is so (intentionally no doubt) misleading:

    the ChiComs promised that Hong Kongers would enjoy British levels of social and political freedom, or at least something closer to them than the mainland dictatorship, until 2047.

    By “British levels”, does the author mean levels in Britain? Or in Hong Kong under British rule? Because what Hong Kongers currently have is more democratic than under British rule. Before, the HK legislature was just an advisory body. Now, it actually makes laws.

    • Agree: Tor597
  52. Americans have automobiles and the associated freedom in their DNA. High speed rail would be seen as nothing more than a govt boondoggle… “Amtrack”. The Chinese know no such thing, so high speed rail to them is a godsend by comparison.

  53. Anon[217] • Disclaimer says:

    When did Derb live in China? In the 80’s? That’s like someone recounting Jim Crow era experiences as being representative of the US now. Here’s a story of a Westerner who came back to the US during the height of the coronavirus in China. It paints a beautifully the governing values of China. It’s not right or wrong but it seems to work for the Chinese.

    http://www.kendraschaefer.com/2020/03/coronavirus-part-i-fear-and-community/

  54. fish says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    They pay you by the word don’t they GahFlee?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  55. @Dave from Oz

    Belief is for religionists.

    Stats are stats.

    Mao has the best stats of any leader in history.

    • Troll: UK
    • Replies: @Half-Jap
  56. Badwhite, face-planted in Chinese poontang Derbyshire has once again scribbled some incredibly stupid stuff. He really wants China to be number one because of his mediocre Chinese family. He hates the West.

    The Japanese are the only intelligent Asians. Japan is a first-world country. Japan was supposed to takeover the world in the mid-1980s. This never happened.

    Derbyshire scribbles about the Chinese “Smart Fraction.” The average Chinese IQ is about 86. China will never be a first-world nation. My sister traveled to China, Hong Kong and Singapore in the early 2000s on business trips. Hong Kong and Singapore are barely second-world nations. China is a shithole.

    China is collapsing. They are the world’s fastest aging country. I read that over 400 million abortions have been performed since the 1970s. This is a conservative estimate. Some believe the actual number is around 800 million.

    China has always been prone to huge internal conflicts. Now that their economy has collapsed. we will see internal problems like the Taiping Rebellion, the 1945-49 Civil War and the Cultural Revolution.

    Derbyshire then scribbles about “positive eugenics v. negative eugenics.” This degenerate practiced negative eugenics by marrying a Chinese female and producing barely average Chinese offspring.

    Derbyshire, you will be 75 next month. Tomorrow is not promised to anyone, but it is certain that your ice floe is getting nearer. Start preparing the move back to China, Taiwan or whatever Chinese shithole you prefer with your Chinese family. You hate the West so spend the rest of your days in a “yellowtopia.”

    • Replies: @BlackDragon
    , @Ray Caruso
  57. @Fidelios Automata

    By my (only slightly exaggerated) estimate, we’ve spent $100 billion since 1945 creating Bad China in which bad things happen and people’s lives are bad.

    One element that makes Chinese lives bad is that they are afraid to express their opinions–especially about their government–freely. And, like Jesus, freedom is worth killing for so it’s a kind of setup for going to war with them, as we are currently doing. We are not there yet, but we are going to war quite openly because, among other things, with our help the Chinese will be able to express their opinions freely. After we bomb the shit out of them.

    It’s bullshit. Utter crap. Repeated endlessly by our media and those whom our media influence (99% of us, including our politicians) it has become peace is the new war is peace, slavery is the new freedom, and strength is ignorance–as President Trump proves daily.

    Just one example: China’s investigative journalism is second to none. One guy took on GM foods and won despite government opposition, then he took on the fucking Supreme Court and, after weeks of official denials, produced evidence of corruption among the justices (petty rivalry and a tendency to favor State-backed over private plaintiffs).

    That’s just one guy. The new breed of environmental journalists are fierce, and corporate fraud gets sniffed out earlier there than here.

    Harvard’s Gary King[1] says,

    “Contrary to much research and commentary, the purpose of the censorship program is not to suppress criticism of the State or the Communist Party. Indeed, despite widespread censorship of social critics, we find that when Chinese people write scathing criticisms of their government and its leaders the probability that their post will be censored does not increase. Instead, censored tweets were equally likely to be against the state, for the state, irrelevant, or factual reports about events. Negative, even vitriolic criticism of the state, its leaders and its policies are not more likely to be censored.”

    Maria Repnikova[2] finds critical journalism alive and well:

    A popular depiction of Chinese media in the past decade has been that of a fearful, loyal agent of the ruthless party-state which exudes no tolerance towards its critics. Indoctrinated to channel official propaganda to the public, silenced by censorship and threatened by coercion, Chinese journalists function in one of the world’s toughest places when it comes to media freedom.…
    What goes unnoticed beneath the stark imagery of collision between the mighty state and the fearless, isolated critics however, is the web of complex negotiations taking place between some Chinese journalists and party officials. Specifically, whereas the majority of Chinese reporting still adheres to the propaganda model, in the past three decades an exceptional practice of what I term ‘critical journalism,’ including investigative, in-depth, editorial and human-interest coverage of contentious societal issues, has emerged in China amid the restrictive environment..what unites these journalists is their pursuit of social justice and their quest to push the envelope of permissible reporting.
    They exposed stories such as the 2002 AIDS epidemic in Henan province, the 2003 Sun Zhigang case of a migrant worker illegally detained and beaten to death in Guangzhou, the scandalous school demolitions in the 2008 Sichuan earthquake, the 2008 milk-poisoning scandal, widespread environmental protests and food safety crises among other contentious issues. In most cases their stories raised a wide public outcry, as manifested in active discussions online, and in some cases they also produced a moderate policy shift…recently demonstrated in courageous investigative reporting of the major chemical explosion in Tianjin.

    [1] “Reverse-Engineering Chinese Censorship”. Harvard Magazine, Gary King, September 12, 2013
    [2] Media Politics in China: Improvising Power under Authoritarianism by Maria Repnikova, C.U.P., July 15, 2017.

    • Thanks: d dan
    • Replies: @Alden
    , @onebornfree
  58. @Mathew

    They can’t even make a Television.

  59. @Svevlad

    That’s a trick question. Because we’re not allowed to name them/it.

  60. bluedog says:
    @Dave from Oz

    Boy never say never and never speak for others.!!!

  61. Seraphim says:
    @Realist

    He might be more afraid that Uncle would send him and retain in a secure place his ChiCom missus. Can you ever trust the ChiComs?

  62. @WHAT

    “Lol, wake the world up when what`s left of your manufacturing base produces a single new tank hull.”

    Despite pervasive propaganda to the contrary, @dvorak is correct in his statements re US manufacturing.

    However, the devil may be in the detail – how do US manufacturing skills & capabilities compare to strategic competitors? Gaps in certain capabilities and specialisation in others might make sense in a free world of cooperative global commerce, but not so much in a zero-sum scenario.

    If the US foreign policies of forever-wars and global domination continue, then those industrial issues may become critical.

  63. Tor597 says:
    @dvorak

    Not really impressive though.

    To keep pace with how large our economy has grown, our manufacturing should have grown considerably not just made pace.

  64. Mefobills says:
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    When the U.S. began, central government got all of its revenue by Tariffs and excise taxes.

    Every election cycle was an argument over how big the tariff would be.

    This is how the U.S. got wealthy, it made almost EVERYTHING itself.

    One could split hairs over the accounting methods used, but it does appear that the USA is still in the business of making stuff.

    Autarky is good.

    U.S. Notes instead of debt bearing Federal Reserve Notes, is good.

    For the U.S. to MAGA, it has to return to the American System of Economy.

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  65. I first meant to dispute some of the more stupid claims in Derbyshire’s article but concluded that was a waste of my time.

    His entire rant about the “Chi-com’s despotism” is merely Zionist ideological bullshit, outrageous twisting of facts. One example:

    “The Hong Kong demonstrators this past year have shown feisty spirit”.

    Yeah, really, by throwing more than 10,000 petrol bombs, setting anti-protestors on fire, beating some people to death and others into the hospital, injuring more than 1,000 police officers and causing more than $100 million in physical damage . . .

    Just a normal bunch of young people innocently hoping for democracy. Three cheers for their American-financed and American-instigated “feisty spirit”.

    With articles like this, the Unz Review can reinstate itself on Facebook as the WSJ’s garbage can. My compliments.

    • Agree: bluedog, acementhead
    • Replies: @Herald
  66. Eagle Eye says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Today, ninety-eight percent of Chinese admire Mao.

    Are you sure the precise figure is not 98.1728336%? (Not counting Ms. Wang Yaling of Changsha, Hunan who sadly passed away before her response could be recorded.)

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  67. Alden says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    One thing I have to agree with you Godfree, the Chinese government is 100 percent pro China and the Han people. I sincerely hope the Chinese Paradise on earth you’re always writing about comes true, then the Chinese can stay in Utopian China instead of colonizing the west coast of America.

  68. Half-Jap says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    “Billionaires quote him daily” like their lives depended on it. Literally.
    fixed (#^.^#)

  69. Half-Jap says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Belief is for religionists.

    Stats are stats.

    Mao has the best stats of any leader in history.

    Stats are only as good as the data, and the data only as good as the methodology of measurement, etc.
    Stats are wonderful tools to shape perception, support claims, etc.
    It’s ok to be a great fan of any leader, and Mao deserves much more appreciation, but this statement of belief in the stats is delightfully ironic. Not to single you out though, as we all do it, regardless of awareness of it.
    Speaking of which, Derb’s claim that the US still has the greatest economy by referencing GDP is quite ludicrous, eh? lol.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  70. Half-Jap says:
    @Dave from Oz

    While statistics can be manipulated, leader’s accomplishments aggrandized, their failure minimized or ignored, Roberts at least supports his claims with references, which is more than what most do. I just don’t find some references plausible due to many factors that affect everything from the data collection to the statistical output, or historical accounts where there are challenges, etc.

    I find his contribution valuable because there are bases to argue over, instead of a yelling match. But yeah, I too find certain claims over the top sometimes lol.

  71. Alden says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Sounds like the standard Asian Way. Be a total conformist in public but do exactly as you want in private, if you can, as much as you can get away with, especially Re: taxes.

    That’s why Chinese governments have always been so totalitarian and omnipresent can’t trust the people to obey the laws. So law enforcement gets harsher, people obey publicly but get quietly more recalcitrant. Finally there’s a change for the better in government policy

    Then the cycle begins again.

    It’s China’s business, not ours.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  72. Alden says:
    @Mathew

    You’ve never been unemployed have you?

  73. Ghali says:

    There is NO hard evidence that Americans made it to the Moon. The Russians were the first (Yuri Gagarin) was the first human to journey into outer space, achieving a major milestone in the Space Race. His capsule, Vostok 1, completed one orbit of Earth on 12 April 1961.

  74. Ghali says:
    @Mathew

    Agree, J. Debyshire is a well-known bigot.

    • Troll: Richard B
    • Replies: @Richard B
  75. Last but not least. “Above, the almost entirely white male staff of NASA’s Mission Control, the day men landed on the moon.” Faked, staged, didnt happen, by the wonderful US of A. Blame Russia! (oops Soviet Union CCCP). Lovely to read articles by China bashers. good understanding, NOT, of the Chinese sate system.

  76. @Godfree Roberts

    Can you cite some sources to substantiate your (rather unbelievable if I may say it) claims? Preferably non-Chinese sources not funded by the CCP, and the veracity of which is confirmed by a host of non-Chinese scholars?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  77. @attilathehen

    Japan used babies for bayonet practise in WW2 Fact. I was told this by witness in Singapore when I was little. Too bad they got bombed with uranium!

  78. Whatever the CCP might have done or not done, and whether you like or hate the CCP, it remains a fact that historically the CCP is ultimately the creation of the West — and the Jews, too (always the Jews, sigh). Had the West and the Jews not pushed opium onto the Chinese in the 19th Century, forced all sorts of unequal trade agreements on them etc, the Qing Dynasty would not have destabilized and ultimately collapsed. Then there would not have been a political vacuum for political opportunists to seek anxiously to fill, one of these being precisely the CCP. (Marxism is an ideology created by the West and the Jews, too.)

    I also agree with Kouros in the 18th comment above that the present article is somewhat unbalanced; more could be said about America’s problems.

    Finally, I think the economic woes currently faced by China are not unique to her, but the wretched inheritance of the entire modern industrial world. We’ve more or less already reached the limits to growth. Neither America nor China is going to win anything. We’re all losers.

    If we’re really lucky, we’ll go back to a pre-industrial agrarian way of life. If we’re really unlucky, some psychotic psychopaths will trigger a nuclear war. Either way, it’s game over for modern industrial ‘civilization’.

  79. anonymous[176] • Disclaimer says:

    “The white race is the cancer of human history” – Susan Sontag

    Notwithstanding the “glories” the whitevil race may have earned, by hook or by crook (wealth acquisition was mostly through crooked ways), there is a certain simple truth to the quote above which is simply breathtaking… especially when one considers the pain, suffering and death which the said evil race has caused around the world.

    Every other race pales in comparison to such evil.

    • Replies: @SomeoneInAsia
  80. vot tak says:

    “China’s economy has taken a big hit from the pandemic and the measures taken to slow or contain it. There have been huge employment losses in both manufacturing and services, in a nation with much less of a social safety net than ours [A slump exposes holes in China’s welfare state, Economist, May 7 2020].”

    LOL, the economist is a valid source. Sure shlomo, the Chinese have a weaker social safety net than your craven zio-colony, yet they managed to quarantine 10s of millions and keep those people supplied with what they needed via that “inferior” social safety net. Yet your colonial govno-hole cant even manage to keep up with basic needs in a very partial quarantine and simply tossed their citizens under a bus and told them to fend for themselves.

    At that point I stopped reading this propaganda and skimmed for sources, which looked all to be the bog standard zionazi-gay toss (politely called msm). Incidentally, I’ve found that pundits who use terms like Chicom are invariably echo chambers of zionazi-gay propaganda, this guy further reinforces that observation.

  81. onebornfree says: • Website
    @Godfree Roberts

    “Just one example: China’s investigative journalism is second to none. One guy took on GM foods and won despite government opposition, then he took on the fucking Supreme Court and, after weeks of official denials, produced evidence of corruption among the justices (petty rivalry and a tendency to favor State-backed over private plaintiffs).

    That’s just one guy. The new breed of environmental journalists are fierce, and corporate fraud gets sniffed out earlier there than here.”

    So fuck off back to China, if its so much better there, commie filth!!

    No regards

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @bluedog
  82. UK says:

    It is amazing how after all these years a plain statement of the obvious can still be seen as radical. There isn’t a single point in this essay that anyone shouldn’t easily be able to understand nor a single point that they should not be able to intuit themselves with just a little knowledge.

    Great essay. Frustrating that the reactions aren’t just “oh, but of course.”

  83. Moi says:
    @Mathew

    I, for one, welcome the rise of China because the Chinese are a civilized people who believe in harmony. Never in their long history have they set out to conquer anyone, but only to trade with other countries. With America’s downward slide, perhaps there will be less violence in the word. Amen!

  84. David says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    In early 1776, Dr Johnson cites Franklin’s estimate that the population of the American Colonies was doubling every 25 years as a reason not to put off suppressing their incipient rebellion.

  85. Herald says:
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    One could split hairs over the accounting methods used, but it does appear that the USA is still in the business of making stuff.

    It’s still very good at manufacturing second rate and vastly overpriced military hardware, that it foists onto its “allies’ and its own military. Bio warfare is also booming. Are tthese the businesses you are referring to?

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  86. Uncle Chang is observant. Daresay their infiltration of academia and ownership of congress is modeled after other successful (((puppeteers.)))

    Any nation allowing immigration from billion+ populated countries (or continents) is committing suicide.

  87. Herald says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    Yes indeed, use of the trendy, but very juvenile epithet “Chicom” was enough to tell you, that this wasn’t going to be a sensible article.

  88. buzzwar says:

    Politically, China is the Land of the Lie.

    So is the US. A pathological liar such as Pompeo has yet to be seen in China.

    • Agree: vox4non
  89. Ian Smith says:

    Derb, I know that you’re a philosemite, and nothing is going to change your mind about that. But Susan Sontag was not an ethnomasochist. She didn’t have Jews in mind when she described the white race as a cancer and you damn well know this. If you don’t want to admit that Sontag was not an ethnosadist, then stop muddying the waters by using the Sontag quote.

  90. Carlos22 says:

    If China is smart they’ll make peace now with their neighbours inc India.

    Do they really need 2000km sq of land on India’s boarder? (about the size of a small county)

    Do they really need those artificial islands in the s China sea that piss off their neighbours making them move over to the US.

    • Replies: @Herald
    , @denk
  91. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:

    Along somewhat similar lines, I wrote this here:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-our-coronavirus-catastrophe-as-biowarfare-blowback/?showcomments#comment-3917342

    Essentially the USA and allied countries (Ziosphere?) have a need to cut China down. Outright warfare risks nuclear conflagration, that option is out. I hadn’t thought about proxy warfare to be honest. That was done in years past but not so sure about that today.

    The next best thing is to cut China off from the resources it needs. Part of the problem will be herding other countries into a similar approach. And the other difficulty will be immense Chinese diaspora around the world. There are more Chinese than there are Jews in the world, though the Chinese are less influential. 46M overseas Chinese in fact.

    http://www.culturaldiplomacy.org/academy/index.php?chinese-diaspora

    The Jews are very cold blooded when it comes to their interests. “Is it good for the Jews?” is always the overriding question. Tikkun Olam is, at best, a cover story for “IIGFTJ”. It will be interesting how the Jewish diaspora propagandizes in relation to the Chinese diaspora in the coming years.

    Already Soros is saying some menacing things.

    https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/2183562/george-soros-calls-chinas-xi-jinping-most-dangerous-foe-free

    This makes Xi Jinping the most dangerous opponent of open societies,” Soros told a dinner audience on the margins of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.
    Communist China under Xi has been building a cutting-edge system including facial recognition to keep tabs on its citizens, and Soros said it would be used to calculate how dangerous a threat individuals might pose to the regime.

    “The instruments of control developed by artificial intelligence give an inherent advantage of totalitarian regimes over open societies,” the former hedge fund manager said.
    “The ‘social credit’ system, if it became operational, would give Xi total control over the people,” he said at the dinner, which was open to the news media.

    “If these companies came to dominate the 5G market, they would present an unacceptable security risk for the rest of the world.”
    Soros said US President Donald Trump was taking the wrong approach to China: making concessions to Beijing and declaring victory while renewing his attacks on US allies.

    “This is liable to undermine the US policy objective of curbing China’s abuses and excesses. The reality is that we are in a cold war that threatens to turn into a hot one.

    It’s not quite at the level of “World Jewry declares war on Germany” yet, but Soros is saying we are already in a Cold War with China. This is news to a lot of people, but less and less so these days.

    Why is facial recognition technology, and the ability to intercept communications so threatening?

    Facial recognition technology means technical Jewdar. Training a neural network on subversives and finding that they look Jewish is threatening to Soros. Imagine an app with the Jewdar abilities of a smart and well-studied white nationalist, on tap! The “open society”, i.e. the one in which Jews can do whatever they want to with impunity, is under threat. It means that parasites can be detected as they crawl their way through a society.

    And having control of telecommunications is also highly important for control.

    Anyway, we are due for more interesting times it appears. It feels kind of like a post-9/11 period right now, but before the Iraq Attaq.

    I hope no one does anything involving nuclear weapons, let’s keep geopolitics classy, ok guys?

  92. “Sputnik moment”… what a laugh, we can’t even build new bridges that stay up, or maintain simple dams before they flood the countryside. We used to be a unified society with widely accepted meritocratic standards (you know, what our progressive betters call that “white privilege” stuff), as late as the 1960’s. Otherwise we would never have gotten to the moon.

    But now that society is gone forever. The US will never again be able to rise to an external challenge, especially existential ones with China or any other aggressive tyranny. We’re failing badly in all areas of useful meaningful societal endeavor, as we fall ever further into a third-world, lowest-common-denominator, diverse, multicultural, affirmative-action, feminized, debt-ridden dystopia. But meanwhile we can all bow down and worship the Almighty State. We have our Holy Leftist Morality firmly entrenched in our communal soul, to lead us all into a Shining Progressive Utopia where every year is The Current Year. .

  93. bluedog says:
    @onebornfree

    Hmm you must thrive on bile and hate while you live in your little libby feel good world,make believe world,its a disease that I hope isn’t catching or can be passed on to any offspring.!!!

  94. @Alden

    The only Chinese Paradise on earth I’ve written about is at least 100 years away so, until then, grin and bear your Asian neighbors. They’re keeping the local IQ out of the toilet.

  95. @Half-Jap

    You’re being suspiciously vague. What stat do you find incredible, and why?

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
    , @frankie p
  96. Wally says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    – So when are you moving to Communist China?

    Trump 2020

  97. Wally says:
    @Mathew

    Where in Communist China do you live?

    Oops!

  98. Rich says:
    @Mathew

    Another anti-US military commenter with absolutely no idea of what he writes.
    1. US military defeated the NVA in every major engagement, the communists couldn’t defeat the South until 2 years after the US withdrew.
    2. The reds invaded the South in Korea, almost conquered it, but were driven back over the 38th parallel where they remain.
    3. The Iraqi military was destroyed and an American puppet subject to American decrees still sits in Baghdad.
    4. The Taliban was driven from power in Afghanistan and now live in the bush, controlling no major population centers while a US puppet sits in Kabul.
    5. The US never invaded Syria and only supported trying the nation down in chaos which has resulted in tying Russia down in a guerilla war for the foreseeable future.
    Whether you like the US or not, its military is doing fine.

  99. @Godfree Roberts

    The ones regarding Mao’s achievements.

    I’ve had a chat with a couple mainland Chinese in the late 1980s regarding Mao, by the way. Their opinions don’t seem to square that well with your glowing accounts of him.

    • Agree: Half-Jap
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  100. Anon[164] • Disclaimer says:
    @Svevlad

    Serbia?

    • Replies: @Svevlad
  101. @Alden

    Great comment, Alden! You are quite right that, no matter how corrupt and totalitarian they have been, over the many centuries, they do what they think is best for the Chinese people vs. the US Feral Gov’t and elites caring more about foreigners than the American people. (What they think is the best often gets millions killed, but that’s another story.)

    The Chinese government will NEVER EVER let true Commies like Mr. Roberts immigrate to China, as much as he kisses their asses. This is due to the fact they they have seen themselves, and heard stories from their parents about, the evils of true Communism and don’t want that shit to start up ever again.

  102. I’ve lived in China, twice. And as many have pointed out, people have far more personal freedom than people in the west. As long as you’re not a (((subversive))), and really why would you want to be in a prosperous nation that doesn’t send cops to kick in your door at 3 am, you won’t have any problems with the government.

    Having been ruled over by “communists” in China, and Jews in America, I’ll take the former over the latter seven days a week.

  103. Poco says:
    @anonymous

    Did he evince pride? Seemed to me that he was stating a fact and that fact indicates the US still has some little global power. He also outlined many other facts to indicate Chinese advantages over the US.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  104. Half-Jap says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Any and all survey of popular opinion, unless individuals were guaranteed complete anonymity and warranty from repercussion, outside any knowledge of any related to the State, as well as any and all economic stats. For example, my recent favorite quote is

    Remember the record plunge in China’s manufacturing and non-manufacturing PMI for February when the entire economy imploded as a result of coronavirus pandemic? Well, forget all about it, because in the latest farce out of Beijing, moments ago the goalseekers at the National Bureau Of Statistics came up with March PMI numbers that are so ridiculous they not only make a mockery out of all Chinese “data” reporting, but put into question absolutely everything that Beijing is officially reporting in connection with the pandemic.

    Here’s how China just made everyone around the world cackle with mad laughter:

    Manufacturing PMI 52.0, exp. 44.8 and up from 35.7. The 50+ print means China is now solidly back in expansion; even more laughably, this was the highest print since September 2017.
    Non-manufacturing PMI 52.3, exp. 42.0, and up from 29.6. This print is also well in expansion.
    […]
    That these completely fabricated, laughable numbers come the day after China cut its reverse repo rate to 2.20%, the lowest on record, and broke its streak of 29 trading days without a reverse repo operating, injecting 50 billion yuan into the economy which is now cratering, was hardly a coincidence.

    And speaking of cratering economy, just yesterday we reported that contrary to the PMI data, China’s consumer default tsunami has now started, to wit:

    Delinquent credit-card debt in February rose by about 50% from a year earlier.
    China’s delinquency ratio jumped to a staggering 20% in February, from 13% at the end of last year.
    An estimated 8 million people in China lost their jobs in February.
    Industrial profits crashed by 39%.

    In short: China’s real economy is collapsing and the more it contracts, the more compelled Beijing feels to boost consumer confidence with totally fabricated numbers, which however nobody believes any more.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/china-fixed-chinese-pmis-soar-back-expansion-smashing-expectations, which used to be a much better site, but still interesting. There are other sources on how national econ data and/or stats are not internally coherent.
    Plenty of gripes about the fakery of US stats, and there is no point defending China, or any other, who are interested in looking their best at all times.
    You, on the other hand, seem interested in China not only looking its best at all times, but can find no flaws whatsoever. Even if what you say are all true, by standards of presentation or negotiation, you fail by being patently incredible in your claims. Persuasiveness, you lack; only believers will accept your claims, despite the charts and numbers you present, unless those are taken apart and components fundamentally vouchsafed. Such is the skepticism of those yet with a healthy sense.

    regards,
    that jap

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  105. Half-Jap says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Any and All, I suppose lol. Maybe start with billionaires that never quoted Mao, even denouncing him, yet still in good social standing, or surveys of Chinese citizens free from anybody or entity knowing they volunteered their opinion and guaranteed such anonymity, etc.
    Wages have demonstrably been going up, as has companies complained about such (which is a form of circumstantial verification, eh?). But I have never met a single Chinese that believed in the country going in the right direction, but rather, they do not care to opine except just say ‘sure,’ or ‘yes, better than before,’ and skillfully change subject. Sure that qualifies as a ‘yes,’ but safety first, don’t volunteer anything. And what follows from this?

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
    , @d dan
  106. Agent76 says:

    May 25, 2020 How China Manipulates the Media | Joshua Philipp

    The Chinese Communist Party has used the coronavirus pandemic outbreak from Wuhan, China as a means of spreading propaganda around the world.

    Feb 24, 2020 NASA Langley Remembers Hidden Figure Katherine G. Johnson (1918-2020)

    Her strength of character, bravery and mastery of mathematics helped America push beyond inequality to accomplish what some thought impossible.

    Jan 3, 2019 ‘Dark side’ of the moon: China’s Chang’e 4 probe makes historic landing

    A Chinese spacecraft has made the first landing on the far side of the moon, touching down in the South Pole-Aitken basin.

  107. @Godfree Roberts

    Perhaps YOUR claim that Fort Detrick is located in Virginia? You never have explained how you made that ludicrous error.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  108. Svevlad says:
    @Anon

    Russia my man

    Anyone who plays it smart really. Those who manage to remain at the edge at the point of the Great Bifurcation

  109. Miro23 says:

    Whether they are or not, we are heading into a bipolar world once again. People are waking up fast to this. The coronavirus pandemic has us thinking and talking about China in a way that we weren’t before, not in the public realm at any rate.

    A really fast change. One moment China is every corporation’s trusted supplier and the next it’s part of the War On Terror. Like Trump said:

    “This is worse than Pearl Harbor. This is worse than the World Trade Center. There’s never been an attack like this… It could have been stopped in China. It should have been stopped right at the source.” Quoted by Pat Buchanan

    These are lunatic statements, but in tune with the highly suspicious, instant and orchestrated, MSM response to Cov-19. Just like the response to 9/11, but this time targeting China.

    The NPC is not really a legislature in any dictionary sense. It’s Totalitarian Theater. There is very occasionally—two or three times per decade—some muffled resistance to edicts from the Politburo; but even those have had a staged quality about them, and were probably just a theatrical way of settling some minor power struggle at the top.

    Any impartial observer has to say that the US legislature is also Totalitarian Theatre. For example, Congress giving Netanyahu 28 standing ovations in 47 minutes. Even the Chinese don’t show this level of sycophancy.

    The developed countries of North America, Western Europe, and Australasia are waking to the fact that we have sold the Chinese Communist Party a whole lot of rope with a gift card attached saying “Please Hang Us.”

    “We” means US special interests and their client politicians. It seems clear that the US public want their wellbeing put first, but the political class doesn’t represent them – and in fact regards them as “deplorables”.

    Fifty years of autonomy for Hong Kong? Absolutely! —where do we sign? If we are admitted to the World Trade Organization, shall we observe the rules?

    The Chinese were cheating and lying, and appropriating Western technology. The US (corporations) wanted Chinese slave factory labour. Now the US is upset 1) that the Chinese have developed their own advanced technology 2) they won’t do the deal and allow CIA back doors in their devices (Huawei). Both creepy, but in different ways.

    It is not the case that one half of the Han Chinese loathes and despises the other half. No Chinese politician ever sought advantage by describing half of his fellow Chinese as “deplorables.” No public intellectual in China ever wrote that “The yellow race is the cancer of human history” as Susan Sontag wrote of the white race to which she herself belonged. Ethnomasochism is a white pathology.

    Susan Sontag and the many other Jews at the core of anti-White (read “anti-Anglo”) activism were not ethnomasochists. They were Jews busy kicking Anglos out of power – successfully as it turned out.

    If we had been at today’s level of social rancor back in 1957, would we have been able to get to a Moon landing in just twelve years?

    Of course not. It would have taken us twelve years just to figure out and litigate, appeal, re-litigate, and re-appeal the Affirmative Action protocols for staffing Mission Control.

    Anglos are similar to Germans. They like scientific and technological challenges. Both have a great history in science and technology, which transferred to the US, making it the world’s leading manufacturing nation.

    In contrast, Jews value media, entertainment and financial dealing. Hedge fund managers, investment bankers, traders, Hollywood, IPO’s, debt and the general finacialization of everything. Since they’re now in charge, the US reflects their priorities (also the US pro-Israel stance).

    • Replies: @showmethereal
    , @FB
  110. Lancaster says:

    Derbyshire speaks of “we” and also of a white majority that’s split down the middle. Does he believe that “we” still has any meaning? There won’t be any “we” anymore, the two halves have parted ways irreconcilably. The right half should not care about the left half. It should chart out a course for itself. Given that both halves’ common foreign overlordship cannot be thrown off, it would be a good thing if it were replaced by Chinese hegemony. The right half could act as a junior partner and at least survive. The Chinese have so many problems of their own, not the least of which is their history of disunity. Their overlordship will be less severe than the current one. The Russians are already sort of junior partners to the Chinese. It seems to work out well for them.

  111. Anonymous[275] • Disclaimer says:

    Briefly, China will find itself an overseas imperial power. This will take all of China’s attention for several decades.

    Detailed logic:

    1) The US is financially broke; it has (as of 2020/05) proven unable to maintain an expeditionary Army, Navy, Air Force, and is at present trying, very slowly, to withdraw these forces. US will from financial necessity withdraw within CONUS while claiming not to (c.f. British Empire post 1946). World sea lanes will, without guarding by US forces, become subject to interdiction by state and non-state actors.
    2) China’s territory is incapable of autarchy, that is, it must obtain its food and industrial raw materials from non-Chinese areas (must extract resources from non-Chinese areas).
    3) Insecure sea lanes will make it impossible for China to extract resources through free exchange of goods.
    3) The US will be unable to prevent coercive resource extraction from non-Chinese areas (see (1))
    5) Some areas will be able to resist Chinese resource extraction (Russian Federation, India, maybe Pakistan, maybe Japan), others will not (Africa, Indonesia, some parts of South America).
    6) As resistance grows to non-free resource extraction (and national incompatibilities rise) China will find itself fighting to maintain non-free resource extraction. Resources actually extracted minus resources expended in fighting will decrease in value.
    7) China will be fully committed to the fighting in (6), and will ignore the United States while the United States re-organizes.

    That’s the weather report, folks. Good luck.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  112. @Godfree Roberts

    Emancipated Tibetan slaves burn incense before his shrines and, despite official discouragement, ten million visit his birthplace every year, more than all the people who visit all the world’s shrines.

    But could he walk on water, if he tried?

    Granted, it’s not so serious a point.

  113. @Mefobills

    “This is how the U.S. got wealthy, it made almost EVERYTHING itself. “

    True, and the US did it better than just about anyone else.

    That was a long time ago, though, and it seems to me that much of what used to be the US economy has since been hijacked by the smoke-and-mirrors bankster class and various mega-corporate cartels. The rot probably really started to set in back when the US abolished the gold standard.

    “U.S. Notes instead of debt bearing Federal Reserve Notes, is good.”

    I’ve read somewhere that President Kennedy intended to do that – but he never got the chance to do so.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  114. Anon[224] • Disclaimer says:

    I agree with Derb’s earlier article to ban all visas to Chinese nationals and repatriate all current and former Chinese citizens, incl. those who’ve taken up US citizenship. These people will never be loyal to America. My kid tells me his Chinese friend from school told him his dad still says “China #1!” all the time even though he’s now a US citizen, and almost every year we’ve read about current or former Chinese nationals being arrested for industrial espionage. China also pays for the salary of their teachers who teach Chinese in our high schools, and 98% of kids who take those classes are ethnic Chinese. All Chinese language programs need to be shuttered in US high schools and colleges. Those who took those classes or protest about the shuttering should be deported to China.

    But I also do not care for US media’s constant assault on the CCP incl. this stupid article. I really don’t give a shit if they put Uighurs in education camps, or if they want to clamp down on protesters in HK, or massacre their own citizens in Tiananmen. As far as I’m concern these could all well be fake news cooked up by globohomo hellbent on interfering in every country’s domestic affairs unless their governments are willing US dogs like Japan.

    What the US needs is a complete decoupling from China. Not just banning of all Chinese visas including student and tourist visas, and repatriation of all current and former Chinese citizens, but reshore our entire supply chain back to the US — simply moving factories to other parts of Asia won’t do a damn thing to help us, the sneaky Chinese would simply build factories in those countries to take advantage of “Made in Not China”. Once the decoupling is complete, leave the Chinese the fuck alone to run their own country as they see fit. The US has no business telling other countries how to run their country, we could barely run our own. Time to focus on ourselves and stop worrying about everyone else.

    Jared Kushner is a traitor who is in bed deep with the Chinese who invested in his family’s development properties for EB5 visas, which his sister specifically market to the Chinese. In the good old days he’d be hanged for treason. Trump needs to take him off immigration ASAP. Stephen Miller also needs to be fired. He’s a fake patriot who only cares about Muslim immigration because it hurts the Jews, he has done jack on H1b and OPT. Bring in Kris Kobach to run DHS.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  115. @Herald

    “It’s still very good at manufacturing second rate and vastly overpriced military hardware, that it foists onto its “allies’ and its own military. Bio warfare is also booming. Are these the businesses you are referring to?”

    I was trying to be impartial in confirming the accuracy of @dvorak’s statements at Post #39.

    As noted in a reply to @WHAT at Post #63, the devil is probably in the details. Although US$ values (pricing) of manufactured goods may be rising, the categories and qualities of those products also qualify their effective utility, and capability gaps may dictate dependence on foreign manufacturers.

    Getting a comprehensive understanding of the US’ (or any major industrial nation’s) present industrial capacity, especially in a way that permits meaningful international comparisons, is bound to be an exceedingly complex undertaking. Has anyone recently done such a study?

    Meanwhile, there does seem to be some basis for doubting the effective value of the US military industrial output, compared to that of its peer competitors. If that is true, then given the scale of spending on the US military, it would undermine perceptions of US industrial strength.

    • Thanks: Herald
  116. Herald says:
    @Carlos22

    Do they really need those artificial islands in the s China sea that piss off their neighbours making them move over to the US.

    Yes indeed, China is a country which has somehow surrounded itself with hundreds of US bases. Silly move China.

    As for making peace with India, the problem there is India, which hasn’t yet the confidence to be a real rising super power. Being its own worst enemy, India will always defer to Uncle Shmuel, if he kicks up a bit of a fuss.

    • Agree: Ultrafart the Brave
  117. @AD70titusrevenge

    The article you refer to was written 1-10-19. The US, in a covid designed panic, (which is their fault, not China’s), has grown a lot weaker since then. And, Gates and Fauci are tight with China and the WHO. Once they get their sought after miracle vaccine, all will then be peaches ‘n cream.

  118. MEH 0910 says:

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    , @showmethereal
  119. @SomeoneInAsia

    “If we’re really unlucky, some psychotic psychopaths will trigger a nuclear war.”

    According to various mystics spread over several centuries, there WILL be another war which will basically wipe out the Northern Hemisphere.

    Hence the mega-rich swarming to build bunkers in the global south, especially in South America & New Zealand.

    • Replies: @acementhead
  120. @Godfree Roberts

    In general I agree with you. I would merely comment that the graph “China average yearly wages in manufacturing”, is unique in my experience, in having a Y-axis that expands from left to right! Seems a bit like unnecessary spin.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  121. Hoyeru says:

    yet another racist “article” chiComs? woah, how racist can you get? disgusting and despicable.

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  122. SafeNow says:

    To Mr. Derb’s point about Chinese smarts, I would add the assiduousness to utilize the smarts. Chinese students study more hours per week than students in any other country, if I correctly recall the PISA results. Here in California, our Chinese immigrants are more industrious, proficient, and conscientious than native Americans. The U.S. unraveling into a relaxed “get it basically okay” (I wonder where that came from) cannot compete with the more capable, fastidious, and decent Chinese. Signing-off from California, where the dive boat’s roving night watchman sleeps.

  123. @Hoyeru

    “chiComs? woah, how racist can you get?”

    The author, being a trendy geriatric, apparently thinks this is the “in thing” to say – about what you might expect from a character on South Park.

    Which is just a tad more offensive than calling his brethren “septic tanks” or “pindos”, in my humble opinion.

  124. His use of ‘Chicoms’ is code for ‘I am an American exceptionalist’.
    I too grew up in Cold War v1 and remember the dirty tricks of US elites pushing narratives of fear and hate while lining their pockets. They have started a Cold War v2 and for the same reasons using the same fear and hate. It could have been so easy for the US to join with China in the Silk Roads projects to the benefit of all, but no, the US will oppose what it cannot control (probably learned from the British). I pity Americans like the author that have learned little from history and make the same mistakes over and over. We are in a new era of history that some call Multipolar. The dominance of the West is over. Why not accept other civilizations and cooperate? Or is supremacism too ingrained in the West?

    • Replies: @Wally
  125. @Godfree Roberts

    Under Mao the Chinese had also eliminated syphilis (I understand it has come back somewhat since “Opening up”) and schistosomiasis and performed the first successful reattachment of a severed human hand. Successful, that is, in the sense that it was a normally usable hand. I know this because I knew one of the eight surgeons involved, the late Josh Horne. (The breakthrough the Chinese made was disproving the prevailing orthodoxy that one could not usefully sew the severed nerves back together.)

    • Thanks: Godfree Roberts
  126. Cyrano says:

    When all is said and done, the rise of China is going to be good only for the Chinese and pretty much nobody else. Which is how it’s supposed to be, I suppose.

    Those who helped China in becoming an economic superpower didn’t do it on purpose. They did it because they are clueless, they never saw it coming – What? Somebody becoming rich from honest labor? Who has ever heard of such a thing?

    But the Chinese did it. And good for them. It’s good that they were able to turn the tables on the west – from being exploited by them, to exploiting themselves, and who knows, one day they might be in position to exploit the west.

    Unfortunately, that’s not the scenario that the degenerate west is poised to benefit from. If China one day comes into position to dominate the world, the west can’t expect anything good from them. Because they didn’t exactly ingratiate themselves with the Chinese. They didn’t make them a superpower because they felt sorry for their poverty, they made them a superpower because they wanted to exploit them.

    Many disillusioned westerners are swooning over the idea of China taking over. That’s a little bit naïve. I understand that most people had enough of western trickery and phonines and want a replacement at the helm, but I am afraid that the west can’t expect any favors from China – if they let them get ahead of them. Western degeneracy should be taken care of in-house, not wait for China to put them out of their misery.

  127. I guess this qualifies as diversity on unz.com: taking a little break from kissing China’s ass from the left, to do it from the right.

  128. Wally says:
    @AriusArmenian

    said:
    “Why not accept other civilizations and cooperate?”

    – Except massive Chinese tariffs (grossly larger than tariffs on Chinese goods) on US goods into China is not ‘cooperative’.

    – I also rather think that theft of intellectual property by China is not very ‘cooperative’.

    Taking on China’s intellectual property theft: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/feb/5/taking-on-chinas-intellectual-property-theft/

    How To Stop China From Stealing Your Intellectual Property: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2019/09/18/how-to-stop-china-from-stealing-your-intellectual-property/#59ff5a471005

    • Replies: @AriusArmenian
    , @d dan
  129. @anonymous

    “And he’s proud that “we” lead the world in overseas military deployments.”

    Of course. How else was his half-breed son to be employed?

  130. @Wally

    Chinese theft of intellectual property?
    It was given to the Chinese by US corporations.
    Why blame China for what US elites did? They made billions on the China trade since the 1990’s but now that the pickings are getting slim and China is not following the US script the US elites are beating the drum to march against China and scheming to make more billions as well. You ‘Chicom’ haters are like a US elites protection racket. You ring your hands and grind your teeth about China while continuing the US elites stabbing the American people in the back. You are in the pocket of US elites that only know to destroy what they can’t control.

  131. @Cyrano

    “When all is said and done, the rise of China is going to be good only for the Chinese and pretty much nobody else.”

    If only (((Americans))) had that sort of attitude.

  132. @MEH 0910

    That the barking mad Pompeo ever thought that “Hong Kong was autonomous from China”
    is a sign of how deeply fucked up the US deep state is.

    • Replies: @Herald
  133. anon[191] • Disclaimer says:
    @Realist

    Well if he doesn’t know, we better tell him, Uncle Sam has had a sex change, race change and color change and is now a sassy black tranny called Samantha.

    • LOL: Alfa158, Realist
  134. Kamazi says:
    @Tor597

    Well spoken. I was born in the USA and have lived in many countries but never been to China. Those friends that I know that have been are amazed. It saddens me to see how insouciant Americans are. It’s time to reassess and some accountability. While America was offshoring to China (not China stealing) to increase stockholder dividends, China was producing and not dependant on using financial capitalism and military threats to make a living for its ultra rich. In the 1980’s we had a few dozen billionairs now we have hundreds and it’s not all inflation. I am not optimistic about the land where I was born.

  135. @foolisholdman

    You haven’t been following Sailer’s adventures with telephoto lenses have you?

  136. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Poco

    For a while thereafter the USA stood supreme, economically and militarily.

    We still do, actually, on indices like per capita GDP and forces deployed overseas.

    Yes, to me that evinces pride. Especially in light of that taken in his son’s soldiering for Uncle Sam, as I’ve been reminded by commenter Bill Jones.

    Mr. Derbyshire has a long record as an Exceptional! columnist.

  137. Miro23 says:

    I can guess what the China leadership think about the Meng Wanzhou arrest and the latest twist in her extradition case.

    Huawei CFO’s battle against US extradition dealt major blow with Canadian court ruling

    From RT:

    https://www.rt.com/news/489943-meng-wanzhou-huawei-canada-extradition/

    • Replies: @Bombercommand
  138. If it sounds like BS, it is BS. Simple truth is, a mirror image of NYT and their ilk might seem different to fools, but smarter observers see it for what it is: the same BS turned 180 degrees. I am not going to argue with the whole stream of shit flying from the fan, so I will note just a few particularly ludicrous points.

    The Future Arm: no more illusions about the regime we’ve been enabling this past thirty years.

    The most important question: who are “we”? The author ends his piece with a series of proclamations that the US is hopelessly divided, so there is no “we” left. On substance: corporations (with the help of the government they wholly own) shifted production to China not because they believed in anything except their bottom line. They did it out of pure greed, to maximize profits. Doing so, they robbed working Americans twice: by taking away their jobs, thus depriving them of the source of income, and by charging good money for China-made things that they spent pennies to make and ship. If the US as a country does not curb their greed, we are doomed (here by “we” I mean normal Americans, as opposed to the ruling 1% of profiteers).

    Communist China is the Land of the Lie.

    Maybe, maybe not. However, I know for sure that the US and its sidekicks are the land of the lie. Unanimity of the US MSM on every issue was matched only twice in history: in Stalin’s USSR in the 1930s and in Hitler’s Germany of the same period. Compared to current American media, Soviet media of 1970s and 1980s was remarkably truthful.

    Now, about whites being divided. Our problem is not so much that we are divided, as that our thieving elites are united. They stage cheap show of elections, where both “parties” are the two puppets on the hands of the same puppet-master. They put greater and greater morons at the helm of those “parties”, as these figureheads, even when they get to the White House, do not matter at all. They control the media, pushing blatant lies that are opposed only by marginal Internet sites. They are working hard to exterminate even this impotent opposition through censorship and privatization of the Internet, so that it belongs to the same scum that owns MSM. They tell BS stories about “defense”, “Chinese virus”, “Russian aggressiveness”, all designed to disorient and fleece the populace. Thanks to their efforts, the populace is dumb enough not to see through their tricks.

    These are our real problems, not China. Unless we solve them, this country is going down the drain.

    • Agree: Miro23
    • Replies: @HeebHunter
    , @Vaterland
  139. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Your comment depends on whether anyone can wrest control of the petro-currency from the USD, the petrodollar. If your economy depends on oil (and they all do), then you must buy oil, and you can never get enough of it as you need a constant supply that is difficult to store mass quantities of. The US can keep printing more money, more debt, and it will still have value so long as the majority of the world’s oil (except Russia’s really; they have nukes) requires a USD to buy it. Only the US can print that, if you don’t have USD you must do something to earn it somehow.

    If you start charging some other currency besides USD for your oil, your regime gets changed by the US expeditionary force. They come up with some pretext, but that’s the reality of why. So from that perspective the Iraq war was about oil even though it’s probably not US companies setting up there and owning the oil rights (I could be wrong but that is immaterial to my point.)

    If the US decides to prevent oil sales to China, China probably is dependent on Russia. It will likely start to wean itself from oil as much as possible (e.g. going more solar), but hard to do entirely.

    The USA is not reducing the number of carriers. It is increasing it. 3 ordered, 13 planned. China has 3 ordered as well, but USA has a lot of them already vs only 2 for China.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_in_service

    When the USA decides it doesn’t like a country, it economically breaks them. That happened to the USSR. They collapsed the price of oil and wheat (key exports of the USSR), and the USSR went broke.

    The strategy will be different with China, sharing more with the strategy against Imperial Japan. China is basically a country that produces a lot of stuff using the resource of its high IQ people. Key there is to starve it of market and raw materials until it withers and plays nice. It is also reliant on diaspora for political influence and income (through them it owns assets). Well, Chinese are very, very easy to identify unlike Jews in a white country. They could be interned like the Japanese were in WW2, or repatriated like the Germans in Europe were at the culmination of WW2.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_Emergency

    I suspect that the Chinese will try to make friends with the Iranians and other oil producing countries, to put their bases there in case the USA attacks them for supplying China. The US probably sees this coming in advance and initiates a war against that country. Or blockades it somehow. My guess is that’s the point to being in Afghanistan, to prevent a pipeline going through there to China.

    If the Chinese continue to pursue aims of incorporating Taiwan and HK into their empire along with island chain bases, and quite possibly a new Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere (excluding Japan), then this will cause the USA to continue down a path of economic warfare (or in reality, a response to the economic war China has waged against them for decades). One thing China are trying to do is indebt countries to them and bribe their leaders. They will also try to build a self-sufficient group of economies that while not on the scale of the world, is at least big enough that they can operate satisfactorily at that level in perpetuity. (Kind of like the Viet Nam response of outlasting the Americans, which worked.)

    I don’t think they will take the emasculating step of abandoning their bases and going back to being say, 2012. They have been doing this island base land grab since 2013.

    https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/chinas-south-china-sea-grab/

    The good thing for white people is that the elite Jews may start to realize that their current strategy of dysgenic miscegenation for whites, combined with reducing white proportions (ala Potok) is neither good for manufacturing, economic strength, warfare, or with Chinese immigration, good for maintaining power.

    If Australia + NZ gets co-opted by China, they will never get them back (like Taiwan was once a Dutch colony – good luck with getting that back now!). If you’ve ever played Risk, you know the value of having Australia as a secure base. A continent that can provide a foil to China and SEA, why would you give that up? (Basically to make shekels for (((Harry Triguboff’s))) real estate empire, that’s why.)

    Of course for the most part, Jews are not just fighting the last war, they have had their minds fixated on every pogrom throughout the centuries instead of locking in world domination. They want to breed a docile breed of disunited, lower IQ, mind-controlled sheep-people who have the eternal sin of being white, through propaganda. It’s a slow process and meanwhile the Chinese have been drinking their milkshake and actually capitalizing on the PC propaganda that causes whites to not respond to threats. Killing off the white societal immune response weakens the host, which as long as it’s not trying to kill the parasite, weakens the host and makes it vulnerable to predators and other parasites.

  140. Herald says:
    @Bill Jones

    That he appointed and perpetuates the clearly unhinged Pompeo, says an awful lot about Trump himself, none of it is remotely flattering.

  141. FB says: • Website
    @Godfree Roberts

    Hahaha…pretty funny to see Godfree dismantle this mushroom tripper…😅😅😅

    • Agree: Erebus
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  142. SafeNow says:

    “repatriate all current and former Chinese citizens, incl. those who’ve taken up US citizenship. These people will never be loyal to America.”

    Chinese U.S. citizens and permanent residents do self-segregate, residentially and socially, but so do many other groups. Further, these Chinese embody traditional American values — more so than do a high percentage of native-born Americans. Proficient, conscientious, decent, industrious. To me this is loyalty; actually, it is loyalty to an America that has unraveled. It is Harvard that is disloyal, discriminating against Chinese applicants, because they are not vibrant.

  143. frankie p says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Godfree,

    Are you aware of the 70% / 30% stat?
    If you aren’t, you’re not very aware of what the Chinese think of Mao.

  144. FB says: • Website
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    Ridiculous…

    US manufacturing now accounts for about 10 percent of GDP…back in the ’60s it was 30 percent…

    This sleight of hand presented by your silly sources can be easily exposed…even in that link to Pew Rsearch [an ‘opinion polling’ outfit] they admit themselves…

    But while U.S. manufacturing output has increased in absolute terms, it still represents a smaller share of the economy than it used to: Manufacturing accounted for about 23% of gross output in 1997 (the first year for which such data are available) but just 18.5% last year.

    And btw these numbers themselves are bogus because they also include here things like FOOD production, which is NOT manufacturing…that’s called agriculture…

    Manufacturing means durable goods and the US makes less and less real stuff… some final assembly does take place here, but components are widely outsourced around the world…

    Another aspect to these bullshit numbers you pulled up is the fact that the US is a lot bigger than it was fifty years ago…half again as many people…so manufacturing certainly has not kept up with that population growth…

    The fact is that these clowns are slicing and dicing numbers in completely meaningless ways…these so-called ‘data’ are about as reliable as the unemployment statistics…

    • Agree: Jazman
  145. Bucky says:

    Disagree on a few things.

    1. Quitting China has its costs and it requires will and discipline, both of which the western democracies do not have. You will have to pay more to quit China.

    The last attempt to do so was the TPP. That failed due to short-sighted domestic politics in America.

    2. Hong Kong is not about democracy. It is really about income inequality. Hong kongers live in closets. This is a structural problem. The extradition law was entirely reasonable given how a young man murdered a girl and stuck her in a suitcase. Do the protestors have any answer to how to handle that situation?

    No, they were just looking for a pretext to demonstrate. The protestors are very much like antifa. They want an enemy, they need Nazis, or, in this case, imaginary Chinese despotism, to define themselves against. But no matter what, despite their upper crust British accents, they will never be white. Even British immigration law gave no favors to Hong Kongers because Hong Kong is not about the people there but about being an outpost of the “liberal west.”

    3. China is a good villain for the “diversity is our strength” crowd. What better to set yourself up against than the monolithic Chinese who all look the same? Except that when it comes down to it, diversity is not a strength and so going up against China would likely fail.

  146. d dan says:
    @Wally

    Oops, yet another commenters who wants China to be an enemy by swallowing typical MSM talking points:

    “Except massive Chinese tariffs (grossly larger than tariffs on Chinese goods) on US goods into China is not ‘cooperative’.”

    Facts:
    1. Before Trump’s trade war, China did NOT have any tariffs specifically targeting US goods. Still there were OECD countries managing to have trade surpluses/overall balances with China. So China tariff is and was NOT the cause of US trade deficit.
    2. China’s general tariffs are in agreement with what they agreed as target when they joined WTO. For example, in 2017, it was about 9.8%, which was lower than the agreed 10%.
    3. WTO allows preferential tariffs treatments by self-declared “developing” country. China is a “developing” country by per capita GDP standard.
    4. True, US average trade tariffs was lower than China, but it was lower than EU, Japan, Korea, Australia and almost all countries too. That was due to historical trade agreement and commitment under WTO. There was nothing nafarious about it.
    5. The way to address grievances about trades and deficits was through WTO, which all countries agreed before Trump. Past history showed that WTO has good track records to side with US (or most developed countries) against China, and China has a good track records of complying when she lost. Yet Trump refused to go that route.

    All the above facts show that US is the one that is not “cooperative”, whereas China is very “cooperative”. Typical of Trump, he breaks international agreements, norms and rules, then turns around to accuse China of bad behaviors or evil intention without proper understanding of the historical context and complex issues. The MSM duly follows and people like you blindly repeat what you hear.

    “I also rather think that theft of intellectual property by China is not very ‘cooperative’.”

    This has been refuted thousand of times. Voluntary transfer is not theft. Most of the IP transfers are not state of the art tech anyway – CEOs are not as stupid as you guys think – they are not interested in nurturing future competitors. Most of the IP transfers are done under joint ventures where US companies gained critical business values too, like cheap financing, land lease, local (i.e. China) marketing expertise etc. Those were all highly “cooperative” and (should be) mutually beneficial. They did not benefit you is due to structural US economic problems, not bad China behaviors.

    • Agree: Patagonia Man, vox4non
    • Replies: @Wally
  147. For those who still think that the SARS-CoV2 outbreak wasn’t a bioweapon as part of an Anglo-Zionist Empire’s hybrid war against China:

    MAY 26, 2020, China loses bid to build $1.5 billion desalination plant in Israel

    “Under pressure from the US administration, Israel has chosen a local company over a Chinese one to construct and operate its massive new sewage water desalination plant.”

    https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/israeli-company-to-build-sorek-2-avoiding-us-china-controversy-629308

    Now, see that in the context of:
    • Trump’s 20 May 2019 announcement, that he was “very happy” with the trade war the US instigated against China and that China would not become the world’s biggest economy “on my watch”;
    • the arrest of the Deputy Chair of Huawei in Canada, last year;
    • the crackdown on Huawei’s 5G network rollout by 4 of the FVEY nations – AUS, CAN, NZ & US;
    • the assassination of China’s Ambassador to Israel; and
    • the UK government’s backflip on allowing Huawei 35% of its telecommunications market.

    It’s the timing people – the timing!

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @denk
  148. dvorak says:
    @FB

    Look up the Baumol effect, the “cost disease of services.”

    Farming and manufacturing productivity increases far outpace service productivity increases. Simple math then shows that services will increase and increase as a percentage of the economy. At some point it will stabilize, as farming did at ~3% of GDP.

    Let’s say, 90% services, 7% manufacturing and 3% farming – that’ll roughly be the final state of every first world economy.

    Senator Fritz Hollings said – what kind of economy is it when it’s majority services and not manufacturing – we all sit around giving each other massages?

    Well, yes, Senator. Massages, MRIs, mobile games…

    • Replies: @FB
  149. @SomeoneInAsia

    These are readily verified (or falsified):
    During Mao’s 25 postwar years, under crushing embargoes on finance, food, agricultural and scientific equipment and international participation, Mao outgrew our booming economy by 100%, ended famines; doubled China’s population from 542 million to 956 million; doubled life expectancy; doubled caloric intake; quintupled GDP; quadrupled literacy; increased grain production three hundred percent; increased gross industrial output forty-fold; increased heavy industry ninety-fold; increased rail lineage 266 percent; increased passenger train traffic from 102,970,000 passengers to 814,910,000.; increased rail freight tonnage two thousand percent; increased the road network one thousand percent; increased steel production from zero to thirty-five MMT/year; increased industry’s contribution to China’s net material product from twenty-three percent to fifty-four percent; put satellites into orbit; developed the atomic bomb and the hydrogen bomb faster than anyone in history; left China debt-free and independent.

    According to data provided by the World Bank, expressed at constant prices (base 1980) and in ten-year averages, China’s economic growth rate was 6.8 percent between 1970 and 1979, i.e., more than double that of the United States during the same period (3.2 percent, also at 1980 constant prices).4

    Furthermore, according to the official GDP series published by China’s National Bureau of Statistics (NBS) since its creation in 1952 up until today, the growth rate of China’s GDP averaged 8.3 percent annually from 1952 to 2015, with a strong 6.3 percent between 1952 and 1978 and an even stronger 9.9 percent between 1979 and 2015. These percentages are expressed at constant prices in base 1952 and standardized to take into account the statistical breaks that marked the accounting transition from the Material Product System (MPS) to the more “modern” System of National Accounts (SNA).5 Nevertheless, if we exclude the very first years of the People’s Republic from 1952 to 1962—i.e., between the completion of the unification of the continental territory and the period of the break with the Soviet Union—there is a recorded average of 8.2 percent per annum GDP growth rate in the period of 1963–78, reflecting very rapid growth even during the Cultural Revolution.the average growth rates of the capital stock that we called “productive” (including equipment, machinery, tools, industrial buildings, and facilities, but not residential buildings and their land value) showed very little difference over the two subperiods of 1952–78 and 1979–2015: 9.7 percent for the first subperiod and 10.9 percent for the second. If we retain a larger productive capital stock, including the inventories, which are important for calculating the rotation rate of circulating capital, we see that the average rhythm of accumulation of such a stock was slightly higher between 1952 and 1978 (10.41 percent) than between 1979 and 2015 (10.39 percent). Moreover, if we select an even larger capital stock to also include the constructed residential buildings and their land, not directly productive components, the growth rate of this very large capital stock continued to be high, averaging 9.1 percent from 1952 to 1978 compared to 10.9 percent from 1979 to 2015. It is, therefore, quite clear that the capital accumulation effort is not a recent phenomenon, but that it has been continuously decided and planned by the Chinese authorities over the past six decades.

    It is this sustained effort of accumulation, enabled in particular by surplus transfers from rural areas, that explains the success of industrialization and, to a large extent, the robust rate of GDP growth.[Development Indicators (Washington, DC: World Bank, various years)databank.worldbank.org. –The Enigma of China’s Growth. Zhiming Long and Rémy Herrera. Monthly Review, Dec 1, 2018; China Statistical Yearbook (Beijing: National Bureau of Statistics of China, various years), http://stats.gov.cn/english.%5D

    Between 1945 and 1974, Mao
    Ended death from starvation
    doubled China’s population from 542 million to 956 million
    doubled life expectancy
    doubled caloric intake
    quintupled GDP
    quadrupled literacy
    increased grain production three hundred percent
    increased gross industrial output forty-fold
    increased heavy industry ninety-fold.
    increased rail lineage 266 percent
    increased passenger train traffic from 102,970,000 passengers to 814,910,000.
    increased rail freight tonnage two thousand percent
    increased the road network one thousand percent.
    increased steel production from zero to thirty-five MMT/year
    Increased industry’s contribution to China’s net material product from twenty-three percent to fifty-four percent.
    Put satellites into orbit
    Developed the atomic bomb and the hydrogen bomb faster than anyone in history
    Left China debt-free and independent.

    • Thanks: FB
    • Replies: @SomeoneInAsia
  150. @Half-Jap

    Zerohedge has never once been right about China. I suggest you read what expert analysis reveals:

    The quality of China’s GDP statistics☆ by Carsten A. HOLZ ⁎
    Stanford Center for International Development, Stanford University. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1043951X14000753?via%3Dihub

    Quality of China’s Official Statistics: A Brief Review of Academic Perspectives
    Dmitriy Plekhanov
    DOI: https://doi.org/10.22439/cjas.v35i1.5400

  151. @Half-Jap

    Any and All? Have you ever visited China?

    I have never met a single Chinese that believed in the country going in the right direction, but rather, they do not care to opine except just say ‘sure,’ or ‘yes, better than before,’ and skillfully change subject
    . Why do you think they do that? Have you ever wondered?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Half-Jap
  152. d dan says:
    @Half-Jap

    “But I have never met a single Chinese that believed in the country going in the right direction, …”

    I am curious, Half-Jap.

    1. Do you speak Chinese or English with them?
    2. Do you speak to casual acquaintances and strangers, or to people you know very well?
    3. I assume most of the conversations took place within China, is that correct?

    Thanks.

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
    , @Half-Jap
  153. Anonymous[200] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Have you ever been to China? The closest you’ve been is your CIA-listening post in Thailand with the other “tourists”.

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  154. FB says: • Website
    @dvorak

    You can believe that kind of meaningless crapola if you choose…your choice…

    Has nothing to do with the real world…

    It takes over 1,000 separate components to build a ventilator…US can’t make those, but it can ASSEMBLE the ventilator…hence the ENTIRE value of the machine is counted as ‘manufactured’ in the US…even though all the parts are made elsewhere…

    We have the same story even in the armaments industry, the last real bastion of manufacturing in the US…in fact there is a big push on to find out exactly how much of the ‘supply chain’ is offshore…

    I have written elsewhere that we are entering an era of advanced manufacturing, where the cost of making stuff, especially consumer goods, what we might call commodity goods, is going way down because of advances in manufacturing technology…numerical controlled machines, additive manufacturing [aka 3D printing] and robotics…

    Today’s factories can crank out huge amounts of such goods using very little labor…which is a big problem for the entire capitalist paradigm that is based on SCARCITY…

    We have had our oligopolies enforcing an ARTIFICAL scarcity, but that is becoming unsustainable, which is why even the plutocrat class is talking about a universal basic income…so that the consumer-based economy doesn’t crash when people have fewer jobs in manufacturing…and hence less money in their pockets to spend in the economy, which is 70 percent of the GDP…

    But the capitalist system cannot and will not adapt to this new paradigm of plenty…we are no longer in scarcity but ABUNDANCE…

    That is one side of the problem and it is very very real…

    The other side of it is the rise of FINANCE…ie making money from money…GE used to be exclusively a manufacturing company, making everything from light bulbs to jet engines…then they went into finance and guess what…today the finance side is bigger than the manufacturing…a case study of how things get hollowed out…

    Aristotle two thousand years ago called money ‘giving birth’ to money the most ‘unnatural’ way of gaining wealth…absolutely NOTHING comes from that shell game n the end…

    What you have with these bogus numbers thrown around by the shill factories employed by capitalism inc is just trying to paper over these massive STRUCTURAL problems with bullshit…

    Or you have clowns like the guy you cite pulling strings out of his ass…about some ridiculous ‘ratios’ of certain sectors of the economy…this is the equivalent of New Age crapola, nothing else…

    People need food to eat and goods that they use in their daily lives…and which industry uses in making stuff…the US makes very little of the latter…even food production is increasingly import reliant…

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  155. @lloyd

    Mandarin is actually fading out being replaced by English.

    Could you elaborate further on this point please? Thanks.

    • Replies: @lloyd
  156. @d dan

    I know quite a few Chinese who believe that their country is going in the right direction. Many of them believe that the US Empire is committing slow suicide by its own stupidity. I spoke English to them (I know only a few words in Chinese) and I spoke to them in the US. One caveat: all of them have PhD in real science.

    • Thanks: d dan
    • Replies: @Wally
    , @ThatDamnGood
  157. Erebus says:
    @Anonymous

    Your comment depends on whether anyone can wrest control of the petro-currency from the USD, the petrodollar.

    SARS-2 makes that a lot easier by crushing demand. As China’s economy is recovering quickly, its status as swing buyer solidifies and it can (and will) increase the pressure on desperate producers to sell in Yuan.

    If you start charging some other currency besides USD for your oil, your regime gets changed by the US expeditionary force.

    That’s why the Russians planted themselves in the Middle East, and why you see things like MbS high-fiving with Putin. Central and S. America may be vulnerable to American expeditionary forces, but the M.E. no longer is.

    The Petro-dollar is running on inertia now. Only institutional inertia and the fact that so many are out there serving as a store of value for so many countries is keeping it from collapsing, but if push came dramatically to shove China and Russia could collapse it in a monetary heartbeat.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @utu
    , @Biff
    , @AnonFromTN
  158. V. Hickel says:
    @lloyd

    He was never a jogger. When will people quit saying that?

    • Replies: @Bill
  159. Wally says:
    @AnonFromTN

    said:

    “I know quite a few Chinese who believe that their country is going in the right direction. Many of them believe that the US Empire is committing slow suicide by its own stupidity. I spoke English to them (I know only a few words in Chinese) and I spoke to them in the US. One caveat: all of them have PhD in real science.”

    – Well no shit, they’re benefiting.

    – One caveat: all of them are Chinese.

  160. FB says: • Website
    @Erebus

    Even Latin America is no longer a given…especially countries that have credible defense like Venezuela…as we see from the Iranian tanker episode…

    Btw…was disappointed to see the Crew Dragon mission scrubbed…not a good way to do it either…with the crew already on board and the ship fueled…only to watch the fuel then get unloaded and the astronauts disembark…

    A real screw up…if you know you’re getting socked in by weather then why not scrub it before going through all the motions…[the old baseball balk comes to mind…the ultimate spaz maneuver…]

    Well…that’s the new and glorious capitalist space travel for you…let’s keep our fingers crossed that the flight doesn’t end in disaster when it launches on Saturday…

  161. Wally says:
    @d dan

    said:
    “This has been refuted thousand of times”

    – Yawn. More strawmen.

    – No it hasn’t.

    – Yes there was some voluntary transfer by companies who relocated to China. But actual theft is not “voluntary transfer”.
    Please read what I posted.

    – Citing the corrupt policies of the WTO merely emphasis how ridiculous Chinese tariffs were / are, it’s this unfair deal that Trump is changing. Get used to it.

    Trump 2020

    • Replies: @d dan
    , @denk
    , @HeebHunter
    , @denk
  162. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:
    @Patagonia Man

    I don’t think the desalination plant decision is any more involved than jews in the US letting israel know it is becoming too hot a topic in the US and they need to put more effort into looking their part. That isn’t to say one way or the other about biological weapons or anything. It’s just that particular decision is about lowering the profile in the occupied country that’s actually a proven and reliable stooge.

  163. @Miro23

    If you guessed that China will take it out on Michael Kovrig and Micheal Spavor then you guessed correctly. Unlike Meng Wanzhou, Kovrig and Spavor really were kidnapped, and are held with no charges, and held for ransom. The ugly, nuckleheaded face of “Confucian Governance”

    • Troll: d dan
  164. denk says:
    @Patagonia Man

    Wilbur Ross

    “I dont want to talk about a victory lap over a very unfortunate, very malignant disease.”

    Then, of course, he did just that.

    Talk about a Freudian slip !

    https://gizmodo.com/plague-big-opportunity-rat-says-1841363830

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  165. @Bombercommand

    I did explain how I made that ludicrous error.

  166. @Cyrano

    If China one day comes into position to dominate the world, the west can’t expect anything good from them.

    Fret not. China is cool. In 1956, Mao[1] predicted, “The United States now controls a majority in the United Nations and dominates many parts of the world. This state of affairs is temporary and will change one day, along with China’s position as a poor country denied its rights in international relationships. The poor country will change into a rich one, the country denied its rights will change into one enjoying them–a transformation of things into their opposites. The decisive conditions are our socialist system and the concerted efforts of a united people.”

    In 1980 Deng Xiaoping set three goals for transforming the poor country: double wages and ensure enough food and clothing for everyone by 1990 (achieved in 1989); quadruple the economy by 2000 (1995); and reach socialist modernity by 2050. In 2017 Xi Jinping[2] demanded socialist modernity by 2035 and set a new mid-century goal: become a rich, strong, democratic, civilized, harmonious, modern, socialist society by 2050.

    Confucian statecraft operates on the assumption that lesser nations admire and emulate countries that are rich, strong, democratic, civilized, harmonious, and modern and tend to follow their example because. Said Mencius, “Should you make people submit to force rather than to the heart, force will never suffice; should you make people submit to virtue they will heartily rejoice and sincerely follow you, as the seventy disciples followed Confucius.”

    Instead of emulating Roman hegemony, Beijing pursues Confucian humane authority[3], wangdao. According to the Gongyang Zhuan[4], wangdao’s legitimacy has three sources: the legitimacy of heaven (a sacred, transcendent sense of natural morality), the legitimacy of earth (wisdom from history and culture), and the legitimacy of the human (political obedience through popular will).

    Knowing this, we can understand former President Hu’s admonition to blaze a path to modernity and set a virtuous example that other nations can emulate without losing their independence, “Jointly promote democratization of international relations by building an open, inclusive, clean and beautiful world that enjoys lasting peace, universal security and common prosperity[5].” Thus China will show that economic development is senior to Athenian democracy and create political space for all six billion citizens in developing countries.

    In 2017 Xi warned his countrymen how difficult it would be even to accomplish this domestically, “Achieving national rejuvenation will be no walk in the park; it will take more than drum beating and gong clanging to get there. Realizing great dreams requires great struggles, responding to major challenges, withstanding major risks, overcoming major obstacles and addressing major conflicts.” To achieve their 2035 goals, Xi said, the nation-family would have to replace money worship with traditional morality, weed out political corruption, implement social justice and equitability, and provide everyone, without exception, with their own homes, good wages, beautiful environments, safe streets, fine schools, guaranteed incomes, free health care, and enough leisure time for art and contemplation.

    In 2050, he said,

    “China’s economic and technological strength has increased significantly; China has become a global leader in innovation; everyone’s right to participate and develop as equals is protected; rule of law for the country, the government, and society is in place; institutions in all fields are further improved; governance is modernized; people are leading more comfortable lives and the size of the middle-income group has grown considerably; disparities in urban-rural development, in development between regions, and in living standards are significantly reduced; equitable access to basic public services is basically ensured; solid progress has been made toward prosperity for everyone; a modern social governance system has taken shape and society is full of vitality, harmonious, and orderly; civility is significantly enhanced; there is a fundamental improvement in the environment; the goal of building Beautiful China is basically attained; our nation is a proud, active member of the community of nations; China’s cultural soft power has grown much stronger; and the world finds her culture appealing.”

    Later, visiting the United Nations in Geneva, Xi[6] sketched his approach to international relations and invited others leaders to join them.

    We should stay committed to building a world of lasting peace through dialogue and consultation. We should build a world of common security for all through joint efforts. We should build a world of common prosperity through win-win cooperation. We should build an open and inclusive world through exchanges and mutual learning. We should make our world clean and beautiful by pursuing green and low-carbon development.
    China remains unchanged in its commitment to uphold world peace, pursue common development, foster partnerships and multilateralism. We invite the world to join in creating A global community and a shared future for mankind, an open, inclusive, clean and beautiful world that enjoys lasting peace, universal security and common prosperity. A dàtóng world in which everyone belongs to a big family working cooperatively to solve the global challenges facing our planet by setting goals that transcend similarities and differences between countries, parties and systems and reflect the universal expectation of most countries and the common interests of men and women everywhere.

    Though Xi’s 2050 xiaokang world seems as remote today as Deng’s vision did in 1970, China’s progress has attracted the attention of the developing world and some are already emulating her.

    If China actually reaches her 2050 goals then her attraction will be overwhelming and Mao’s favorite passage from the Dàtóng Shu[7] will begin to seem possible:

    Now to have states, families, and selves is to allow each individual to maintain a sphere of selfishness. This utterly violates the Universal Principle and impedes progress..Therefore, not only should states be abolished–so that there would be no more struggle between the strong and the weak–but families should also be done away with, too, to allow equality of love and affection among men. Finally, selfishness itself should be banished, so that goods and services would not be used for private ends..The only true way is sharing the world in common by all, tienxia weigong..To share in common is to treat each and every one alike. There should be no distinction between high and low, no discrepancy between rich and poor, no segregation of human races, no inequality between sexes..all should be educated and supported with the common property, none should depend on private possession..This is the way of the Great Community.


    [1] “Strengthen Party Unity and Carry Forward Party Traditions” (1956)
    [2] Opening of the Chinese Communist Party’s 19th National Congress, October 18, 2017
    [3] Bell, Daniel. Just Hierarchy (pp. 124-125). Princeton University Press. Kindle Edition.
    [4] Gongyang Zhuan, a commentary on the Spring and Autumn Annals and one of the Five Classics, assumes that Confucius wrote the Annals as a constitutional guideline for future generations.
    [5] Hu Jintao, ‘Holding the great banner of Socialism with Chinese characteristics and struggling to achieve the new victory of the construction of a prosperous society.’ People’s Daily, 25 October 2007.
    [6] Work Together to Build a Community of Shared Future for Mankind. Speech by H.E. Xi Jinping, President of the People’s Republic of China. At the United Nations Office at Geneva, 18 January 2017
    [7] Kang Youwei, 1858-1927 AD, was a Neo-Confucian scholar, political thinker and reformer of the late Qing dynasty whom Mao so admired that he committed Kang’s books to memory and quoted them regularly.

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
    • Replies: @Cyrano
    , @Miro23
  167. denk says:
    @Carlos22

    China has completed border demarcation with all of its neighbors….
    except India the ‘exceptional‘.

    India wasnt content with inheriting a large tract of war booty from its Anglo
    cousins, [The seven sisters in the NE] it annexed Southern Tibet
    in the 50’s
    the locals dont call you the USA of South Asia for nuthin you know ?

    The Indians looks like itching for a fight at the border again, who’s giving you that backbone. ?

    The same one who goaded you to poke the dragon’s eyes in 1962 no doubt ?

  168. @Anon

    Derbyshire needs to set the example for repatriation by starting with himself and his Chinese family.

  169. utu says:
    @Erebus

    “That’s why the Russians planted themselves in the Middle East, and why you see things like MbS high-fiving with Putin. Central and S. America may be vulnerable to American expeditionary forces, but the M.E. no longer is.”

    Russia’s projection of power in Syria is local in nature and it can’t be expanded. Russia found itself in Syria only because Israel wanted to have a buffer zone from Turkey so the Syrian regime had to be propped up and left in the state of a permanent weakness. And it is Russia now that is taking all the ire of the Turks which serves the American Empire by keeping Turks dependent on the US protective umbrella.

    Few dozens of Russian airplanes and several S-300/400 batteries in Syria can be overwhelmed and wiped out by Israel or even Turkey in one hour or so. Russia can’t project more power there than it has already demonstrated. There are no supply lines that could not be immediately cut off.

    No country in the Middle East counts on Russia or can count on Russia. Even Iran is wary of Russia because Russia is weak and its actions and even doctrine are subsumed by what China and America would do. The US is the only country that can project power there. This is the reality everybody recognizes except for Lubyanka and Olgino trolls that like to spin yarns of Russian power and domination fantasy. They have as much validity and truth as the anti-Trump confabulations that Russia was so powerful that it helped to elect Trump. Convincing the Democratic party establishment and the American people that Russia mattered and was a threat was the most successful psy-op on the behalf of Russia that Lubyanka and Olgino trolls could only dream of.

    In the present constellation of power Russia can play only a role of an auxiliary power to China or America. However probability that Russia would ally itself with China in the final showdown between China and America is nil for historical and geopolitical reasons as well as for cultural reasons and most importantly because of the de facto political and institutional infiltration of Russia by the Western thought and ideology that are interlinked with Western security services. If there are in Russia dreamers of Russia’s resurgence as a superfower the only scenario. they can count on is the post WWIII apocalyptic landscape from which Russia emerges less damaged than either China or America. A dream of the superpower in the cemetery.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @FB
  170. @FB

    “Another aspect to these bullshit numbers you pulled up is the fact that the US is a lot bigger than it was fifty years ago…”

    True, the US pop. is bigger than it was – but @dvorak’s original assertion was aimed at quantity, not proportion.

    “Manufacturing means durable goods and the US makes less and less real stuff… some final assembly does take place here, but components are widely outsourced around the world…”

    Refer Posts #119 & #117…

  171. Richard B says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    There’s

    The Land Of The Lie

    And then there’s

    The People Of The Lie

    Whatever danger China’s power poses for The West in general and The USA in particular fades into nothing compared with The People Of The Lie.

    But The People Of The Lie are so powerful that we can’t even talk about them in public the way you still can about China.

    Obviously, it’s exactly this that makes them so dangerous.

    So, until that changes, our problems aren’t just “worse” than China’s, they’re way worse.

    Of course, China knows this.

    Because The Land Of The Lie and The People Of The Lie are friends.

  172. Richard B says:
    @Ghali

    J. Debyshire is a well-known bigot.

    His wife’s Chinese.

    They have two children.

    • Replies: @Beefcake the Mighty
  173. Richard B says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    When his Chi-Com Troll Boilerplate juices get flowing Godfree is a master at self-parody.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  174. d dan says:
    @Anonymous

    “The strategy will be different with China, sharing more with the strategy against Imperial Japan. China is basically a country that produces a lot of stuff using the resource of its high IQ people. Key there is to starve it of market and raw materials until it withers and plays nice.”

    The world needs China’s products as much as China needs oil and natural resources. So that strategy is too late by 20 years.

    “It is also reliant on diaspora for political influence and income (through them it owns assets). “

    China has little political influence outside its border anyway, and they don’t rely on “income” from their diaspora.

    “Well, Chinese are very, very easy to identify unlike Jews in a white country. They could be interned like the Japanese were in WW2, or repatriated like the Germans in Europe were at the culmination of WW2.”

    They probably can do that in western countries like US, Canada, Australia or even Europe. But in Asia, where most oversea Chinese lives?

    “If the Chinese continue to pursue aims of incorporating Taiwan and HK into their empire along with island chain bases, and quite possibly a new Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity ….”

    Have to stop reading and responding from here – Taiwan and HK are part of China longer than the existence of US (and many western countries). If China should not incorporate back those lost territories, then US probably should not exist at all – or at least should be much smaller.

  175. @FB

    Clearly you have a bone and you need a place to pick it.

    However…

    “Today’s factories can crank out huge amounts of such goods using very little labor…”

    You may care to notice that this is precisely what @dvorak (indirectly) asserted with his original Post #39, ie:

    “it is US manufacturing employment, not output, that has gone down”

    The devil is in the detail.

    Focus, man, focus.

    • Replies: @FB
  176. Anonymous[396] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    A fantastic anonymous reply to a fantastic anonymous post. Praise to you both and praise to Ron Unz for hosting such an interchange of ideas.

    On another note, why does Anatoly Karlin ban anonymous posters, and why does he ban everyone who disagrees with him? It seems his approach is out of place on this site. My apologies for the digression.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  177. Anonymous[396] • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    Hahaha…pretty funny to see Godfree dismantle this mushroom tripper…

    What’s wrong with mushrooms? An alternative perspective is often one of the most valuable contributions a man can make.

    As for Godfree, his utopian view of the PRC simply doesn’t square with my experiences. I’m not denying their progress is incredible, and I’m not denying that get get a lot of things right, but it’s not all roses over there and Godfree burns his credibility by not giving a more balanced perspective.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  178. d dan says:
    @Wally

    “But actual theft is not “voluntary transfer”.”

    If they are theft, they should be able to prove that in US courts and prevent those products being sold in US, can’t they?

    The fact that they can’t prevent selling of Chinese products by legal means, but have to resort in “national security” fiction tells you a lot about your “theft story”, no?

    “Citing the corrupt policies of the WTO merely emphasis how ridiculous Chinese tariffs were / are, it’s this unfair deal…”

    Typical of Trump supporters. Anything that Trump does not like must be corrupt – that would of course include WTO, WHO, UN, China, Russia, democrats, GOP, media, the rest of the world and galaxy …

    Questions: Do you know how WTO was formed? Do you know who appointed most of the judges in WTO ? Do you know how many cases US won in WTO against China?

    “…Trump is changing. Get used to it.”

    LOL. So Trump is stealing Obama’s campaign slogan about “Changes”? Not that I care about either clowns.

    “Trump 2020”

    “What difference does it make?” – by a famous crook.

    • Replies: @Wally
  179. denk says:
    @Wally

    What has Nepal gotta do with your ‘national security’, ‘trade deficit‘ , ‘IP theft‘ and all that jazz ?

    PompASS’s message is enough to understand that the US doesn’t want Nepal’s partnership with China, particularly on BRI.
    The above are the main conditions to receive 500 million US dollar support under the Millennium Challenge Corporation already announced by the US.
    Earlier, this Weekly had reported that if Nepal will deny to join the Indo-Pacific Strategy aimed at encircling China, she will not only be disqualified from any kind of support from the US, but also, the Oli led government would face political crisis in the near future.
    Sources claim that the American embassy had strongly opposed installation of the computer networking software developed by Chinese company, Huawei Telecom in the war room at the PMO and computer networking in the cabinet ministers’ secretariat. Later, the government was compelled to cancel the agreement with the Huawei company and rewarding the company recommended by the Americans.
    Oli facing odd situation:

    https://www.peoplesreview.com.np/2019/03/20/olis-foreign-policy-under-the-us-trap/

    Do you even know where’s Nepal BTW ???

    • LOL: Wally
    • Replies: @denk
  180. @Anonymous

    They want to breed a docile breed of disunited, lower IQ, mind-controlled sheep-people who have the eternal sin of being white, through propaganda

    They already exist. The amerimutt golems from your civil war’s aftermath.

  181. @Wally

    I cant wait until the orange kike drop out of office. I would wonder for whom you shills will work for then.

  182. @AnonFromTN

    Ameritards fought for this though. Three times.
    Your civil war, ww1 and ww2. Three chances at redemption and you all went the path of the dodo.

    Time to go to hell.

  183. @AnonFromTN

    The Chinese public’s defacto rendition of America in Chinese characters has changed from 美国 to 霉国.
    美 means beautiful.
    霉 means mouldy.

    Both are pronounce similarly.
    Mouldy implies decay.

    • LOL: FB
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  184. Biff says:
    @Erebus

    but if push came dramatically to shove China and Russia could collapse it in a monetary heartbeat.

    I was told(and I could’ve been lied too) that, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Australia, and China, were the largest holders of U.S. currency, and it would take at least two of those entities to collude and dump the dollar to have any effect on it as a reserve currency. ?.?.?

    • Replies: @Erebus
  185. Erebus says:
    @utu

    Few dozens of Russian airplanes and several S-300/400 batteries in Syria can be overwhelmed and wiped out by Israel or even Turkey in one hour or so. Russia can’t project more power there than it has already demonstrated. There are no supply lines that could not be immediately cut off.

    The “hour or so” is just stupid, but given say 72 hrs they probably could – at existential cost to the country trying it, of course. Which is why it hasn’t happened, and won’t.

    The rest of your post is just more of the “hour or so” class of silliness you’re building a reputation for.

  186. ” the USA stood supreme, economically and militarily.

    We still do, actually, on indices like per capita GDP and forces deployed overseas. ”

    This is, of course
    1. A lie. The US is about 15th in terms of per capita GDP.
    2. As regards to the latter, it is a sign of the terminal corruption of the country.

  187. Erebus says:
    @Biff

    For an orderly climb down from reserve currency status, that may well be true. In fact, I’d think it would require more than 2 large holders. If we’re talking about push coming to shove such as the US strangling China economically/financially other, more disorderly processes come to mind that would force holders into an Either/Or decision.

  188. Erebus says:
    @dvorak

    … you should know that the US has had more and more manufacturing output every single year, since at least 1941.

    Using FRED’s numbers for reference, you’re right, but if you reference reality, you’re dead wrong.

    Not wishing to quote myself, please see a discussion with Astuteobservor II that starts here.
    If you prefer to skip the whole back ‘n forth, go to the synopsis here.

    The system guarantees that the numbers it produces obscure reality.

  189. Half-Jap says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I stopped counting after visiting more than 20 times, when my passport ran out of space and replaced, and it’s been a good experience, but yeah, I see you can also shift away from my query. I can pretict your answer, if I was wondering as to why. There is not uniform or blanket answer, although you seem to prefer to speak in absolutes.

    As to zerohedge, though I wouldn’t say never, generally agreed, but going back slightly to my other point, experts can and often do disagree, even based on the same dataset. I am not in a position to point fingers considering Japan’s long term morbid condition, but China is also facing its own dire crisis. Unlike zerohedge and others predicting the collapse of China, there are many factors, as you have presented in other articles, that allow for its resiliency, but this is not the same as being healthy. It is interesting that we both have central banks that are not really independent, which greatly aids in our efforts.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  190. Half-Jap says:
    @d dan

    I speak Chinese poorly, read it ok (still studying), and get my Chinese wife giggling whenever I open my mouth ( ̄▽ ̄)哈哈哈

    I know financial types, media types, and a few legal types. As their English or Japanese is obviously better than my Chinese, we default to one or the other of the former two. They are good/close friends.

    Perhaps 70% convos happened in China, with remainder around the US capitol. Those outside were not shy in their positive and negative opinions, but in the mainland, not so much. Maybe this contrast colored my impression of those in China. Or maybe it’s just the kind of people that move overseas that is this way, etc. I like them all just the same.

  191. @Anonymous

    I’ve been visiting China since 1967.

    I live one hour from the Chinese border, two hours from the nearest HSR station, Kunming South.

    What does my physical location have to do with China’s socioeconomic development, pray tell?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  192. denk says:
    @Wally

    WTF has a port in Bangladesh gotta do with your ‘national security, trade deficit, IP theft and all that jazz’ ?

    While the Bangladesh government insists that the Sonadia project has not been cancelled it has recently claimed that there were environmental concerns about port facilities at this location. The real reason, though, is opposition from the US and India to Chinese investment in Bangladesh ports. Speaking with the Dhaka Tribune in January, Bangladesh Planning Minister A.H.M. Mustafa Kamal said that “some countries, including India and the United States, are against the Chinese involvement” in the project.

    Bangladesh’s decision to proceed with Japanese investment in Matarbarhi is a setback for China, which had backed the Sonadia project since 2012. Bangladesh Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina had been happy to proceed with investment from Beijing, having previously called China the “most dependable and consistent friend” of Bangladesh. The Bangladesh media speculated that the Sonadia deal would be finalised during Hasina’s Beijing visit in June last year but that did not happen.

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/07/22/bang-j22.html

    FUKUSI

    All the world are belong to us,
    get off my turf

    Not so fast buddy,
    FUKUSI[ndia], in this corner of the planet.

    • Replies: @denk
  193. @Richard B

    That’s right, he’s not a bigot, he’s a cuck.

  194. @Half-Jap

    What absolute did I speak?

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
  195. Anonymous[200] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Yes, the US should stay the fuck out of Asia, and in fact stay out of the whole goddamn world. However, the ridiculously utopian view Team China has of the CCP goes beyond parody, it’s severely delusional. These clowns can’t even bring themselves to acknowledge how China has benefited greatly from US-led globalization. They’re completely removed from reality. It’s another good example of how leftism is ultimately a form of religion; these guys see the CCP as God, and the US as the Devil.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  196. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Hey, thanks. I put quite a bit of effort into that. And thanks to Ron Unz as you say, he is a god among men.

    You never know who reads this stuff. It seems like there are plenty of shills here or those who shill for free, but there are enough smart people with interesting perspectives as well. As Reagan kept the quote on his desk:

    “There is no limit to what a man can do or where he can go if he does not mind who gets the credit.”

    I have thought, long ago, about asking Ron for a column. However, that would mean I’d probably have to write a regular column. And then I’d risk becoming a name, and then I wouldn’t want to write interesting things any more. I’d have to pull punches. Yes I have ego, but if contributing ideas anonymously was good enough for the founding fathers of the USA, it’s good enough for me. It would be cool to meet Ron one day, and chat if he has the time.

    I think I’ll close with a clip from Inception, a movie with the theme that an idea is a powerful thing, both for good and ill. I tend to just throw them out there as a way to help myself think about things (and if you do it privately, you don’t get other people to critique and improve your ideas).

    Have a great day.

  197. FB says: • Website
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    “it is US manufacturing employment, not output, that has gone down”

    Output PER CAPITA has gone down…even though absolute ‘output’ may have increased, the US is now nearly twice as big, population-wise as it was in 1960…

    Also the way output is COUNTED is important…like I said, if you only assemble the finished product out of many parts made in China and elsewhere, than what is ‘officially’ counted is the value of the entire finished product…even though everything that went into it is actually manufactured elsewhere…

    This is true even with extremely advanced products like commercial aircraft…the Boeing 787 has its wings made in Japan…its fuselage in Italy and other major parts in other countries…all of it then shipped to Washington state, where it is assembled into an airplane…[although Boeing is reverting to more in-house manufacturing and cutting back such major outsourcing on its new triple seven generation…]

    The devil is in the detail.

    Indeed it is FOOL…

    Clearly you have a bone and you need a place to pick it.

    Excuse me PINHEAD…which of the above points have you actually refuted…?

    Answer…ZERO…

    I suggest you roll up your diarrhea hose and stop hosing down this discussion space with your useless crap…

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  198. @Anonymous

    Excellent succinct comment, Mr. #200!

    Thank you.

    (Weird, I just noticed that your comment is number 200 on this thread AND your anon-# is 200.)

  199. Cyrano says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I also believe that the Chinese system – the socio-political and economic one – is superior to the phony democracies of the west. At the same time, I don’t think that China is the answer to the world problems.

    But if China is not the answer, the US is not even the question. I think that the world has seen enough of the US hegemoney, where every issue is examined and dealt with through the prism of money and financial gains.

    The world doesn’t need a new hegemon, the world needs new alliances, and pretty soon China won’t need any alliances itself- it will be strong enough not to require any.

    It’s actually the world that will need alliances to counterbalance the Chinese influence. One such possible alliance that could work would be Russia-Germany-Japan to keep equilibrium with China (as much as I am not a fan of the Germans).

    • Replies: @Herald
  200. Anonymous[382] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Not the original anonymous, but….

    I live one hour from the Chinese border, two hours from the nearest HSR station, Kunming South.

    I thought you lived in Thailand? The closest point must be Chiang Khong, and I doubt you could get through the Lao border and up the road to the border past Luang Namtha in an hour. Where roughly do you live?

    What does my physical location have to do with China’s socioeconomic development, pray tell?

    Honestly it feels very hypocritical that you speak so glowingly about the PRC and then choose to live in the laid back Kingdom of Thailand.

    We’re all asking the same question: if China is so great, why don’t you live there?

  201. Google and Goldman built the technocracy in China and it is they who are seeking “parity” -or what we know as the “new global order” -on behalf of their fellow oligarchs who own the traitors in both parties. The whole country was systematically dismantled and invaded over the last 50 years with the assistance of all 3 branches of govt and their henchman in the money houses and their yapping lap- spaniels in the media. I’m supposed to believe this lunacy that there is such a place as an America with a representative republican system of limited govt?

    What do the tech giants have in store for you? Well, we have all been through this here a million times. Just keep in mind how Epstein was extra judicially silenced. Lockdowns, forced bankruptcy and ruination at the hands of the same people who created the surveillance state in China. And for an extra-value -bonus; 5g- which will have the computational speed in real time to correlate your former free movements into series of endless, idiotic bureaucratic intrusions.

  202. Miro23 says:
    @Anonymous

    If Australia + NZ gets co-opted by China, they will never get them back (like Taiwan was once a Dutch colony – good luck with getting that back now!).

    True enough. If China takes over those remnants of the British Empire – then they will be permanently lost.

    Australia and New Zealand are attractive properties – militarily weak, under populated with an abundance of raw materials.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  203. @Erebus

    if push came dramatically to shove China and Russia could collapse it in a monetary heartbeat

    Nobody would collapse the US $ voluntarily. That would mean a drastic shakeup of the whole financial system. While the US would suffer more than anyone, there won’t be a country unscathed. Euro, British pound, and Yen would become immediate casualties. For now, China has a strong disincentive to crash the US $: more than a trillion in US treasuries. However, if DC morons try to steal the money China lent to the US, they would collapse the US $ in no time. There would be no more idiots trusting the US treasuries, so the whole Ponzi scheme of the US debt would come crashing down.

    Russia actually prepared for this: it used to hold more than $110 billion in treasuries, but it sold them all, now holding less than $4 billion. Other countries are catching up: the sum total of treasuries dumped by foreign countries in March is ~$300 billion. Even KSA and India dumped more than $20 billion each. The Fed is “buying” them, i.e., printing more money (even clinically retarded would smell a rat when someone is “buying” his own debt obligations).

    So, let’s keep our fingers crossed and hope that DC morons won’t crash the system by their idiotic moves, allowing the US and its currency to slump slowly over many years, instead of crashing and burning overnight.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  204. FB says: • Website
    @utu

    Few dozens of Russian airplanes and several S-300/400 batteries in Syria can be overwhelmed and wiped out by Israel or even Turkey in one hour or so.

    Is that right, PINHEAD…

    And you are now some kind of authority on air combat and suppression of enemy air defenses…?

    Yet a massive US air armada of over 1,000 fighter aircraft, bombers and dedicated SEAD aircraft could NOT overwhelm even little Serbia in 1999…even after 78 DAYS…

    NATO never fully succeeded in neutralizing the Serb IADS, and NATO aircraft operating over Serbia and Kosovo were always within the engagement envelopes of enemy SA-3 and SA-6 missiles— envelopes that extended as high as 50,000 feet.

    –Dr Benjamin Lambeth, writing in the Aerospace Power Journal, the USAF flagship professional publication, 2002

    As for Israel ‘overwhelming’ Russia in Syria…let’s take a look at what happened in the October War in 1973…

    Our major problem until this morning was missiles, especially the SA6, or improved Redeyes, which were very efficient and of which we took account, because we had to.

    We have lost 32 F4s, 53 A4s, and 11 Mirages, 6 Super Mysteres, for a total of 102 of all kinds.

    –Major General Binyamin Peled, Air Force Chief of Staff, speaking to Henry Kissinger…

    The US had already sent replacement McDonnell F4 ‘Phantom’ fighter jets to Israel, the topline US fighter at the time…but that was not enough, as Peled pointed out…

    Our problem is crews. There are 69 to 70 crews left, who can use 80 to 100 Phantoms.

    Incidentally, those same 1960s era SA6 Soviet air defenses were used by the Serbs against the US and Nato…and nearly 20 years later and with a new generation of F16 and F15 jets, plus dedicated jamming aircraft and special missiles to counter air defenses…Nato was able to kill EXACTLY THREE SA6…

    US and NATO aircraft fired at least 743 HARMs against radars supporting these enemy SAMs.

    NATO spokesmen conceded that they could confirm the destruction of only three of Serbia’s approximately 25 known mobile SA-6 batteries.

    So US and Nato combat aircraft fired nearly 800 missiles at Serb air defenses and managed to take out only three…after 78 days of combat operations…?

    An AGM88 high speed anti-radiation missile carried by US and Nato strike aircraft…the missile is designed to combat enemy sir defenses by homing in on radar signals emitted from surface to air missile systems

    NATO expended a total of 743 AGM-88 HARM anti-radiation missile rounds, launched by EA-6B Prowlers, F-16CJ Weasels and Tornado ECRs…more than 50% of HARMs were fired at mobile SA-6 batteries

    –Chart…USAFE ‘AWOS [Air War Over Serbia] Fact Sheet,’ HQ USAFE/SA, December 17, 1999, cited in Benjamin S. Lambeth, NATO’s Air War for Kosovo; A Strategic and Operational Assessment, RAND Monograph MR-1365

    …the inability of NATO to inflict decisive attrition upon the IADS resulted in ongoing high operational costs due to the need to keep EA-6B Prowler, RC-135V/W Rivet Joint, Tornado ECR and F-16CJ Weasels airborne during any significant operations over the territory of the rump FRY.

    In fact Nato was running out of munitions in the air war against Serbia, plus suffering virtual attrition that was not sustainable…

    …in the face of an air campaign that at the end numbered over 1,000 aircraft, Serbian combat power remained substantially intact.

    The number of sorties generated by the NATO forces, particularly the United States Air Force, left them short of spare parts and munitions, required increased maintenance, and a force reduced in effective size due to the decreased fatigue life of many aircraft.

    This virtual attrition, with little relative destruction of the opposing forces, has shown that the Serbian military strategy was successful…

    –Martin Andrew RAAF, Retired

    Yet heavily retarded ‘utu’ claims that the Russian air defenses in Syria, one of the most heavily defended pieces of airspace in the world could be ‘overwhelmed in an hour’…

    The Serbian weapons, Soviet gear dating from the 1950s and ’60s was considered mostly obsolescent…this includes the short-range SA6 SAM which also gave the Israelis a lot of trouble 16 years earlier…

    The SA6 surface to air missile has a maximum flight range of only 24 kilometers, a flight ceiling of 14,000 meters and a maximum speed of Mach 2.8 [about 900 meters per second]…

    The S300 and S400 SAMs in Syria have flight range up to 400 km and flight speed of up to Mach 8 [2500 meters per second]…

    The engagement radar for the S300/400 surface to air missile system…the four-tube missile launcher is partially seen to the left…these systems are fully mobile for ‘shoot and scoot’ operation…mobility being the proven key in air defense systems in both Kosovo and the October War in the Middle East…

    What would have happened if the Serbs had the S300…?

    As Lieutenant General Short later commented darkly, ‘It would have profoundly changed the balance of the threat and our ability to maintain air superiority.

    Maybe General Short should have consulted Retardo Boy ‘utu’ to find out how to ‘overwhelm’ S300s in an hour…?

    One SA-10/12 [early S300] site in Belgrade and one in Pristina could have provided defensive coverage over all of Serbia and Kosovo.

    They also could have threatened Rivet Joint, Compass Call, and other key allied aircraft such as the airborne command and control center and the Navy’s E-2C operating well outside enemy airspace.

    Neither Israel, nor CENTCOM, nor anyone else is going to try their luck against the formidable Russian air defenses in Syria, which include not only the S300/400 SAMs, but also Russian fighter jets, supporter by airborne early warning, reconnaissance and electronic warfare aircraft…the Russian airbase in Armenia is just a short hop away and Russian Flanker jets have more than double the range of comparable US aircraft…

    The Russian Southern Military District is a one hour flight to Syria…Colonel Pat Lang has connections in CENTCOM and he reports that nobody is interested in picking a fight with Russia, having a full understanding of their capabilities in Syria…

    Of course not actually knowing anything about the subject has NEVER stopped retarded ‘utu’ from spraying massive diarrhea here…he has been a constant annoyance throughout the coronavirus discussions…and continues to be the stupidest asshat on UNZ…

  205. @ThatDamnGood

    The Chinese public’s defacto rendition of America in Chinese characters has changed from 美国 to 霉国.
    美 means beautiful.
    霉 means mouldy.

    Makes sense. The Empire is destroying itself more efficiently than any enemies possibly could.

  206. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Probably the red light district is better in Thailand.

    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
  207. Half-Jap says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Read back on some of your posts, even here. As you are incapable of reflection, I retract my defense or support of you elsewhere.
    It is sad that I will never take you seriously as a person, when you lack such self awareness.
    I will simply refer to Chinese publications, which are much more critical than you are about China.
    I dare say, even Mao would be embarrassed by your aggrandizement of him.

  208. Miro23 says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    If this is a vision of overwhelming attractiveness then count me out. It’s a lethal stew of New Age BS, John Lennon’s “Imagine” and SJW/Bolshevik propaganda.

    If China actually reaches her 2050 goals then her attraction will be overwhelming and Mao’s favorite passage from the Dàtóng Shu[7] will begin to seem possible:

    Now to have states, families, and selves is to allow each individual to maintain a sphere of selfishness. This utterly violates the Universal Principle and impedes progress..Therefore, not only should states be abolished–so that there would be no more struggle between the strong and the weak–but families should also be done away with, too, to allow equality of love and affection among men. Finally, selfishness itself should be banished, so that goods and services would not be used for private ends..The only true way is sharing the world in common by all, tienxia weigong..To share in common is to treat each and every one alike. There should be no distinction between high and low, no discrepancy between rich and poor, no segregation of human races, no inequality between sexes..all should be educated and supported with the common property, none should depend on private possession..This is the way of the Great Community.

  209. denk says:
    @denk

    What the hell have Chinese investments in its own backyard gotta to with fukus ‘security, trade deficit, IP theft…..all that jazz’ ?

    Bangladesh has become the focus for increasing geo-political rivalry between China, India and Japan—the latter two backed by the US. Over the past two months, Chinese investment bids in Bangladesh reportedly have been outflanked by Indian and Japanese corporations over port and power plant projects.

    According to media reports, India’s state-owned Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited (BHEL) is soon to sign a $1.6 billion power station construction contract with Bangladesh after undercutting China’s Harbin Electric International Company

    ………………
    China’s investment in Sri Lankan port facilities was pushed back following the US-backed regime-change in Sri Lanka, which saw the removal of former President Mahinda Rajapakse at the January 2015 election and the installation the pro-US Maithripala Sirisena as president.
    …………….

    Under pressure from Washington’s “pivot” against China and India’s integration into this increasingly provocative geo-strategic policy, Dhaka appears to be distancing itself from Beijing. These shifts and the intense international competition over infrastructure investment and other projects in Bangladesh show that every country in the region is being drawn into the maelstrom of war tensions created by the US drive against China.

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/03/05/bang-m05.html

    FUKUS

    All the world are belong to us, get off my turf

  210. Anonymous[200] • Disclaimer says:
    @Miro23

    There’s no question about it: Godfrey is 100% insane.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Troll: Godfree Roberts
  211. denk says:
    @denk

    Earlier, this Weekly had reported that if Nepal will deny to join the Indo-Pacific Strategy aimed at encircling China, she will not only be disqualified from any kind of support from the US, but also, the Oli led government would face political crisis in the near future.

    Here’s one crucial difference bet China and fukus, Beijing only wanna make friends not poodles, the problem lies squarely on uncle sham, who brooks no middle ground, …
    You must choose a side,
    you’r either with me or against me

    When faced with such a demand,
    uncle sham’s ‘allies’ always throw in its lot with the great satan.
    For the simple reason that when jilted, China would just shrug and walk away, but if you spurn uncle sham’s love, there’s hell to pay….literally.
    The Nepalese knew only too well.

    One of CIA’s greatest hit….
    wiping out KIng Birendra’s entire family cuz
    ….he’s cozying up with the chicoms !

    why should anyone care about what happens in Nepal, anyway? This tiny kingdom stashed away in the Himalayas is no Shangri-la: its 33 million inhabitants are the poorest in Asia, with the average national yearly income below that even of poverty-stricken Bangladesh. If you’re into monasteries, mysticism, and mountains, Nepal is the place for you, but otherwise it would appear to be of limited interest – that is, unless your name is Donald Rumsfeld.

    https://original.antiwar.com/justin/2001/06/11/chaos-in-katmandu/

    Justin Raimondo,.
    Rip
    [somebody should do an autopsy]

    • Replies: @acementhead
  212. Wally says:
    @d dan

    – IOW, you dodge addressing specifics and go on a laughable & desperate TDS rant.

    – Here you go, whine some more:

    Trump’s 60-point accomplishment list : https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/media-blackout-trumps-60-point-accomplishment-list-of-american-greatness

    Giving Trump’s accomplishments their due : https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/6/giving-trumps-accomplishments-their-due/

    Here’s How Much Red Tape Trump Has Cut: https://www.heritage.org/government-regulation/commentary/heres-how-much-red-tape-trump-has-cut

    Trump 2020

    • Replies: @FB
    , @d dan
  213. FB says: • Website
    @Wally

    Wally World…you just got owned by ‘dumb dan,’ who is not exactly a rocket scientist himself…

    I don’t really care about this particular dispute, but I keep seeing you being nothing more than a punching bag for all comers here on UNZ…

    I’m almost starting to feel sorry for your ass…you seem incapable of winning a dispute…you’re like the spaz in junior high who gets pummeled every day, and at some point even the mean kids start sticking up for you out of pure pity…

    Get some stronger material…nobody is going to bother with your mickey mouse links…

  214. Bodini says:

    From Forbes;

    Last year in the United States 180 thousand students graduated with a STEM degree

    Last year in China 5 Million students graduated with a STEM degree.

    You don’t need to be a genius to see who is going to own the future.

  215. Anonymous[798] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden

    It’s China’s business, not ours.

    Exactly.

    We should refuse to engage in a new Cold War to “bring freedom to the long-suffering Chinese” or other similar crusading, utopian ends, nor to maintain the world primacy of that “shining beacon for for all humanity, Western Civilization”.

    Tell me, why does such an attractive principle as “Western Civilization” need to maintain geopolitical primacy at all? And via wars of choice, at that?

    Why can’t it be simply enjoyed by those who are fortunate enough to live in its sphere, and leave humanity the choice to come embrace it, free of coercion?

  216. lloyd says: • Website
    @ThatDamnGood

    Mandarin is a terribly difficult language to learn. Its merit is effusive literary. It is used mostly as a medium language as most Chinese in China speak it. When Chinese are together, they usually speak their common dialect. But in new China, they will often speak English as the medium language instead of Mandarin.The Chinese are very pragmatic regarding language. I foresee a time when Mandarin will be lost except as an academic language. As it is identified with the Imperial dynasties, there won’t be much official pressure to preserve it other than as culture.

  217. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @Miro23

    Australia and New Zealand are attractive properties – militarily weak, under populated with an abundance of raw materials.

    Chinese don’t do population sparse. They do population dense. If Europeans have advantages, e.g. in war, then inviting in East Asians into a republic or democracy makes little sense. With their hew to increased numbers, they will outvote you and soon control the system.

    If you’ve ever played Starcraft, it’s a bit like Protoss inviting in the Zerg to vote in a democracy. It’s just laughable, but that’s the situation we have here.

  218. d dan says:

    “Mandarin is a terribly difficult language to learn.”

    This obviously is going to be a very subjective experience. I personally feel Mandarin is an order of magnitude easier to learn than English. Do you have personal experience learning Mandarin?

    “Its merit is effusive literary. “

    Have to disagree here. Mandarin is a much more “logical” language than English. It is also grammatically simpler.

    “But in new China, they will often speak English as the medium language instead of Mandarin.”

    What do you mean by “new China”? Do you mean the modernized regions like Beijing/Shanghai, or do you mean advanced studies and research in STEM, businesses, etc?

    “I foresee a time when Mandarin will be lost except as an academic language. “

    Like Latin?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  219. d dan says:
    @Wally

    “IOW, you dodge addressing specifics and go on a laughable & desperate TDS rant…. Trump’s 60-point accomplishment list … blah, blah, blah”

    You think our exchange and disagreement is about Trump? LOL.

  220. @Ultrafart the Brave

    According to various mystics spread over several centuries, there WILL be another war which will basically wipe out the Northern Hemisphere.

    Do you think that there is a possibility that “mystics” might be wrong? Just occasionally, even though their prognostications are spread over several centuries(I do admit that their being “spread over several centuries” make them much more impressive than they otherwise would be)?

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  221. Anonymous[382] • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    Of course not actually knowing anything about the subject has NEVER stopped retarded ‘utu’ from spraying massive diarrhea here…he has been a constant annoyance throughout the coronavirus discussions…and continues to be the stupidest asshat on UNZ…

    You’re not wrong, but pleased watch the language. I’ve noticed you often resort to name calling and insulting people you disagree with. This is bad because it encourages rhetoric over reason and style over substance.

    I believe you care passionately about the truth but, in this regard, your style is quite self defeating.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  222. @Miro23

    I lived in such a society for 30 years. It is difficult (at least for someone not born into it) but it is liberating. From the ego, that is.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  223. Anonymous[382] • Disclaimer says:
    @d dan

    This obviously is going to be a very subjective experience. I personally feel Mandarin is an order of magnitude easier to learn than English. Do you have personal experience learning Mandarin?

    The problem with Mandarin is that there is an almost vertical learning curve right at the beginning. Unless one can get their head around the tones, around the peculiar array of consonants (try asking 厕所在哪里? when you really need to go), and around the rules for which characters can be omitted and which can’t, it’s impossible to have a conversation.

    Chinese are do small talk in a way that’s completely orthogonal to the rest of the world, which means that conversations fizzle out before anything has been learned. Overseas Chinese are not so bad, but they often speak English anyway.

    Have to disagree here. Mandarin is a much more “logical” language than English. It is also grammatically simpler.

    The problem is, people have to go past the brick wall learning curve to get to the point where they might agree with you. This means that there’s a large spread of the population distribution on the other side of the brick wall, and the overall consensus becomes that Mandarin is a very hard language.

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @d dan
  224. @Anonymous

    Back in the day, we used airplanes, a now-forgotten technology like moon landers.

    If China is so great, why don’t I live there? Have you ever been to China? Do you have any idea of how competitive it is? For a brief explanation, read The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective
    By Puzhong Yao. American Affairs. https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2017/11/western-elite-chinese-perspective/

    An excerpt:

    [MORE]

    It was the summer of 2000. I was 15, and I had just finished my high school entrance exam in China. I had made considerable improvements from where I started in first grade, when I had the second- worst grades in the class and had to sit at a desk perpendicular to the blackboard so that the teacher could keep a close eye on me. I had managed to become an average student in an average school. My parents by then had reached the conclusion that I was not going anywhere promising in China and were ready to send me abroad for high school. Contrary to all expectations, however, I got the best mark in my class and my school. The exam scores were so good that I ranked within the top ten among more than 100,000 students in the whole city. My teacher and I both assumed the score was wrong when we first heard it.

    As a consequence, I got into the best class in the best school in my city, and thus began the most painful year of my life. My newfound confidence was quickly crushed when I saw how talented my new classmates were. In the first class, our math teacher announced that she would start from chapter four of the textbook, as she assumed, correctly, that most of us were familiar with the first three chapters and would find it boring to go through them again. Most of the class had been participating in various competitions in middle school and had become familiar with a large part of the high school syllabus already. Furthermore, they had also grown to know each other from those years of competitions together. And here I was, someone who didn’t know anything or anyone, surrounded by people who knew more to begin with, who were much smarter, and who worked just as hard as I did. What chance did I have?

    During that year, I tried very hard to catch up: I gave up everything else and even moved somewhere close to the school to save time on the commute, but to no avail. Over time, going to school and competing while knowing I was sure to lose became torture. Yet I had to do it every day. At the end-of-year exam, I scored second from the bottom of the class—the same place where I began in first grade. But this time it was much harder to accept, after the glory I had enjoyed just one year earlier and the huge amount of effort I had put into studying this year. Finally, I threw in the towel, and asked my parents to send me abroad. Anywhere else on this earth would surely be better.

    So I came to the UK in 2001, when I was 16 years old. Much to my surprise, I found the UK’s exam-focused educational system very similar to the one in China. What is more, in both countries, going to the “right schools” and getting the “right job” are seen as very important by a large group of eager parents. As a result, scoring well on exams and doing well in school interviews—or even the play session for the nursery or pre-prep school—become the most important things in the world. Even at the university level, the undergraduate degree from the University of Cambridge depends on nothing else but an exam at the end of the last year.

    On the other hand, although the UK’s university system is considered superior to China’s, with a population that is only one-twentieth the size of my native country, competition, while tough, is less intimidating. For example, about one in ten applicants gets into Oxbridge in the UK, and Stanford and Harvard accept about one in twenty-five applicants. But in Hebei province in China, where I am from, only one in fifteen hundred applicants gets into Peking or Qinghua University.
    Still, I found it hard to believe how much easier everything became. I scored first nationwide in the GCSE (high school) math exam, and my photo was printed in a national newspaper. I was admitted into Trinity College, University of Cambridge, once the home of Sir Isaac Newton, Francis Bacon, and Prince Charles.

    I studied economics at Cambridge, a field which has become more and more mathematical since the 1970s. The goal is always to use a mathematical model to find a closed-form solution to a real-world problem. Looking back, I’m not sure why my professors were so focused on these models. I have since found that the mistake of blindly relying on models is quite widespread in both trading and investing—often with disastrous results, such as the infamous collapse of the hedge fund Long-Term Capital Management. Years later, I discovered the teaching of Warren Buffett: it is better to be approximately right than precisely wrong. But our professors taught us to think of the real world as a math problem.

  225. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    He resorts so quickly to insult because he’s bluffing and isn’t as smart as he thinks he is. Mainly he’s a one-trick pony. Yeah, we get it, the Americans aren’t as tough as they say, and the Russians have pretty good hardware, you don’t need to take up half the thread saying this. That’s the problem (one of many, actually) with Team China and Team Russia here: they think they’re lonely voices in the wilderness speaking out against the US imperium, when literally everyone here already knows how bad the US is. But they seem to actually believe they’ve attained some kind of high moral standing. Pretty pathetic, really.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  226. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    I think you’re confusing being liberated from your sanity with the alleged merits of the Chinese system. And BTW, you don’t live in China, you live in Thailand.

    • LOL: Achmed E. Newman
  227. Erebus says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Nobody would collapse the US $ voluntarily.

    “Collapse”, in the sense of sudden and chaotic disintegration is indeed as unlikely as Central Bankers and the institutions that guide them are able to make it.
    However, two secular trends are working in tandem to make their job difficult…

    Global trade will only partially recover from its pre-COVID heights, and with that the need for USD holdings. As you pointed out, central banks are already divesting themselves and that trend is likely to accelerate as the realization that global trade won’t recover to pre-COVID levels in the foreseeable future permeates the system, and the size of the shortfall becomes clear (er).

    As that realization takes hold, fewer and fewer real buyers will appear to absorb the divestment and we’ll approach a point at which the trend will shift into a repudiation phase. From there, the slope slickens and steepens, perhaps dramatically. The USD’s store of value function is already dubious. As its function as Medium of Exchange weakens, its function as a Unit of Account will closely follow. That end is already in sight.

    As the ideologues (rather than “morons”) in DC are as likely as not to push their agenda against all odds, the scope of what they could do as the above trends develop widens, perhaps equally dramatically. Driven by ideology rather than by national interest, they’ll eventually cross the line where the downside for China/Russia and many others in maintaining a meta-stable equilibrium is greater than in crashing the system, pushing the US into an abyss and rebuilding on the platforms they’ve been developing for the last decade.

    It’s my view that we’re approaching that line at accelerating pace, and that we’ll surely hit it before the decade is out. In fact, my readings and “gut feel” say it’ll be crossed before the decade is half over. The final semester of the next presidential term is as likely a terminus as any other.

    • Thanks: FB
    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  228. Anonymous[193] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Competitive? But, but, I thought the Chinese system was an egalitarian utopia? I’d say you’re lying to us, but it’s clear you are clinically insane.

  229. Anonymous[172] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    LOL, this is like living in LA and saying I live an hour outside of San Francisco because of the flying time. I get that you’re mental, but what does it say about Ron that he gives you so much airtime?

  230. Erebus says:
    @Anonymous

    Your points are well taken.

    I have 2 multi-lingual friends that speak at least a half-dozen languages fluently. Neither managed to learn more than a few words in Mandarin despite long term stays in China, with the more talented of the two even having taken 2 years of study in Shanghai.

    The latter spoke to your point about the brick wall when he said “I just couldn’t get a grip how that language works”.

    There’s another point I’ve noticed which is that the Chinese also find it difficult to communicate. The amount of talking it takes to get a point across accurately is an order of magnitude greater than what’s required in English. Even so, the number of misunderstandings I encounter between native speakers is astonishing. A lifetime’s worth is encountered in a typical month.

  231. d dan says:
    @Anonymous

    “The problem with Mandarin is that there is an almost vertical learning curve right at the beginning. “

    Let me put it this way. Mandarin is harder to start (at the beginning) but easier to master (i.e. able to be useful). English is easier to start but harder to master.

    “Unless one can get their head around the tones, around the peculiar array of consonants…”

    Let me put in another observation. English is easier to pronounce but harder to understand. Mandarin is harder to pronounce but easier to understand.

    “Chinese are do small talk in a way that’s completely orthogonal to the rest of the world, which means that conversations fizzle out before anything has been learned.”

    You seem to have similar opinion here with the original commenter lloyd. Just to clarify, do you mean Mandarin is not a suitable language for complex topic or do you mean it is hard for majority of Mandarin learners to discuss complex topic? I would agree with the later but not the former.

    Mandarin has several advantages over English:
    1. Smaller vocab.
    2. Simpler grammar (i.e. flexible grammar)
    3. Less redundant words / superfluous constructs.
    4. More logical/meaningful building rules of nouns/phrases.

    One more point which some may think is advantageous but other think is not:
    5. Mandarin has more loaded ways to expressing multiple meanings.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  232. @denk

    Justin Raimondo,.
    Rip
    [somebody should do an autopsy]

    I think that it’s safe to say that JR was not murdered by the US. He was a long-time cigarette smoker and had lung cancer for some time(IDKHL) before his death. Not suspicious at all, in my view, and I’m very critical of the criminal US’ crimes.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @denk
  233. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @acementhead

    That’s right, Raimondo will be sorely missed but he died because he was a heavy smoker. And he certainly wouldn’t have been killed over “blowing the lid” on some obscure plot in Nepal, that’s just laughable. There’s an interesting quote in his article that I’m sure goes right over the head of Team China:

    “ In the new cold war atmosphere generated by Washington and its journalistic amen-corner, one is either “pro-China” or “anti-China” – with nothing in between. ”

    • Replies: @denk
  234. @Anonymous

    And I’d say you’re putting (rather silly) words in my mouth.

    I’ve written extensively about China’s Gini here at Unz. They’ve set a goal of equaling Finland’s equitability by 2035. Their Gini has been dropping since 2012 so I expect they’ll meet their deadline…

  235. @Anonymous

    Flying time and driving time are about the same door to door between Santa Rosa and LAX because the 5 is excellent. The same does not hold between here and Kunming.

    Besides, I don’t commute. I go when I want to verify something (like, do Tier Two cities really get subways when their GNP reaches a predetermined threshold?).

  236. Bankotsu says:

    Godfree Roberts, write an article on your life story. It is odd to find a westerner defending China in such a way.

    I am chinese and I find your defense of Mao to be over the top, by the way.

    • Replies: @Lin
  237. @acementhead

    “Do you think that there is a possibility that “mystics” might be wrong?”

    Of course there is. In truth, it would be much better for about 10 billion people and a shitload of ecosystems if they are wrong.

    However, if a bunch of “eye witnesses” from disparate places around the world at different times all say the same thing in different languages about what they’ve seen coming, I tend to give them some credence.

    We all have natural faculties to (for example) read other individuals minds and to feel future events, though I’m guessing most people rarely (if ever) exercise them, and then only accidentally or fleetingly. One doesn’t need to be “religious” or “spiritual” to suppose that a very tiny few individuals have exceptional natural abilities.

    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  238. AnonCN says:

    Writer is calling for white unity to get USA glory back.
    This logic is a failure logic.
    USA is not a white country, not anymore if it ever was. You can’t get that glory back through white unity. If you somehow managed to get white unity done, you will also get a more divided USA. As divided as USA already is, it’s already amazing enough that it can hold itself together since USA is the special unique one, the No. 1 of this world. Any other country can’t make it.
    But as things getting worse, if you still push for more division among the people, USA won’t be able to hold together anymore. That’s not the case for any glory, not matter how special you are.
    The cure for USA is to firstly re-recognize itself. Reach some common sense. Who you are, what you want? Both the elite and people should make agreement on these most important questions first. Then you start to find the answer for the 3rd question, how you gonna get it.

    Any people with the gifted blessed location and history encounters like USA had, would have lost their mind of who they are and what they want, get lost and start live in day dreams.

    It’s a bless to China that it meet USA on its way of national rejuvenation.
    It’s also a bless to USA that it meet China during its time of getting lost.
    Without coordinate, you lost yourself.

  239. @FB

    Hey @FB, do a summary of actual “Coalition of the Willing” aircraft losses to Iraq during the “Shock & Awe” campaign before Saddam’s generals betrayed him.

    Another “blind spot” in western MSM… just sayin’.

  240. @FB

    “Excuse me PINHEAD…which of the above points have you actually refuted…?”

    Well excuse me if stating a point of fact regarding the truth of @dvorak’s original assertions then obliges all comers to engage in a duel to the death with [email protected] pushing his particular barrow whilst fuming on his soapbox.

    Given your hostile adversarial form and need to pick a fight even when no-one is arguing, I expect you probably get into a heated debate over the general weather with the checkout chick at your local supermarket.

    “I suggest you roll up your diarrhea hose and stop hosing down this discussion space with your useless crap…”

    Oh please, massuh, I promise I be good…

    1. Who voted @FB king of the forum? Not Mr. Unz, that’s for sure.
    2. Failure to engage @FB in ego-assuaging mortal combat elicits a barrage of foul-mouthed name-calling. Maturity anyone?

  241. @Anonymous

    “Competitive? But, but, I thought the Chinese system was an egalitarian utopia?”

    About 30 years ago, I got talking to a Chinese ex-patriot IT professional in Melbourne, and asked him how he was finding his experience in Australia. He said that it was “so easy” in Australia, the pool to compete with was just so much smaller and less ambitious than in China.

    Imagine what it’s like now in China, 30 years later.

    So, yeah, @Godfree is probably right on this one.

    “but it’s clear you [@Godfree] are clinically insane”

    The line between genius & insanity is razor thin (it’s what I’ve heard, anyway).

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  242. @Anonymous

    ” That’s the problem (one of many, actually) with Team China and Team Russia here”

    Hey, I’m Team China! Go China! Yeah, baby!

    Just as long as they stay nice & friendly, like…

  243. AnonCN says:

    A: Utopia is too good to be true, so let’s create a dystopia world where, at least, my individual benefit can be increased and protected as I am the superior one and let’s curse those Utopia liars together since I myself don’t want be cursed.

    B: Utopia is too good to be realized easily, so let’s try harder and harder generations after generations. 1000 failures and hurts shall be taken, 1001st trials shall be made, since it’s too good, it worth all the endeavor.

    That’s just two different value to view the world. Both A & B is correct under their logic.
    A lives in instant satisfaction. B goes for deferred gratification.
    Neither of them live in Utopia or dystopia, they live in real world together. LOL.
    Anyway, a target is a target. As a Chinese, I think Utopia is a good target (since I am common folk, not superior one), so I will follow my leader.

    Many Chinese don’t want to communicate with foreigners(even our own fellowman) about ourselves, especially our politic ideas for many reasons:
    1. you don’t speak our language, I am awkward at your language.
    2. people with different fundamental views about the world can’t not effectively communicate, 道不同,不相为谋;people with similar fundamental views about the world don’t need to communicate that much. So let’s just talk about business, amusement, or other constructive stuffs to continue our friendship, not the heavy stuffs.
    3. for heavy stuffs, unless my action and realities persuade you (or vice versa), my words is useless, not to say that people can be blind in front of act and reality, since we are so different in culture, history, stand point, background, etc.
    4. some people really don’t care big heavy stuff anymore, life is busy and well occupied by small but real stuff already, why bother those far far away who knows what stuff?
    For sure there are some attention catcher/drama queen/traitor/sucker/peace lover/language learner/ambassador character Chinese who love to communicate with foreigners. 1.4 billion people, you get all the kinds.

    Mandarin 普通话 in Chinese literally mean Common Language. It get the current status in China by vote after 1949 PRC since it is very close to the northern Chinese dialect, which is mostly spoken by most Chinese at the time, that why it has the same status in ROC.
    Guess why English has to translate it into the word Mandarin? Old trick always work.

    Mandarin, the living pictographic language from ancient time, has one superiority in modern world over English/any other alphabet languages:
    As more and more knowledge and information are developed by human beings, more and more vocabulary are needed for alphabet language. One expert in one specific field speak alien words to other common guy not in his field. The vocabulary of English may never end as knowledge continues grow, this may also build barrier to experts in different field.
    While it totally not the case for Mandarin. The vocabulary is very stable. Barriers between experts, barriers between elite and common folk won’t be build through language and vocabulary. Within capacity of 5000 words you can master after middle school, you can be any experts in any fields without master any more words.
    Phase i: Knowledge goes deeper, goes separate; phase ii: knowledge will go cross and go broad.
    Mandarin doesn’t help (even hurtful) in the go deeper phase as it has a vague logic behind it, but Mandarin will help during the go cross and broad phase.

    As for occultism prophecy, there are also different tellings that China will lead the future:
    from Jenny Dixon the USA prophet, from Russia Mars boy, from Chinese rumor about紫薇圣人 who will bring new religion/believe to human being.
    So take it easy if you don’t have a safe house in New Zealand or Antarctica.
    The difference between USA dominance and China dominance(if it happens) would be:
    Boss vs Leader

    Mao is loved by Chinese, for sure. More mature a common Chinese get, more care of Chinese history and politic he/she become, more the love he/she has for Mao.
    Though Godfree’s data 98% might sound absolute, but for those who cares history and politic among Chinese, 98% might be correctly absolute.
    70% / 30% is the credit Deng and other CCP leaders gave him after his death to evaluate his good/bad to Chinese people to close historical deal. That’s BS. But that’s an accepted way to conclude the chaos and discussions at the time.
    History credit can’t not be given by your politic peers right after your death. Justified history credit shall been given to Mao after CCP ‘s regime according to Chinese record habit, which might be 200 years later, since Chinese orthodox dynasty usually last 300 years and CCP found in 1921, PRC found in 1949.

    My personal credit to Mao:
    China has to use up the savings of good luck of some 100 years to get a Deng born among the people, yet China has to use up the savings of good luck of some 1000 years to get a Mao born for the nation.
    Fair enough that China has long time enough savings to deserve both of them.

    If you read Mao, you will quote him. Even if you are Mao’s enemy, parasite who exploit the people.
    You quote him, not because you have to, you simply want to. That’s his charm.
    Such person should be demonized by his enemies as much as possible and remembered by his people and history. So he lives forever.
    毛主席万岁, not a lie.

    • Thanks: Ultrafart the Brave
    • Replies: @DB Cooper
  244. grune says:

    For the author’s comments about the US, he is accurate. For his comments about China, he is woefully ignorant and bigoted.

  245. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    Of course not actually knowing anything about the subject has NEVER stopped retarded ‘utu’ from spraying massive diarrhea here…he has been a constant annoyance throughout the coronavirus discussions…and continues to be the stupidest asshat on UNZ…

    You are “doth protesting” a lot it seems.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia

    End result, NATO lost 5 aircraft and Yugoslavia capitulated in 78 days. Yep, the Serbs really BTFO the Americans there. And I’m sure the Americans have nothing up their sleeves with the last 30 years of military technological improvement since.

    Utu performed admirably in the CV19 discussions. Taiwan has now 46 days without a domestic infection. 14 active cases. Mouth diapers ftw!

    • Replies: @FB
  246. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    You’re missing the point.

    • Replies: @Ultrafart the Brave
  247. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Original anon here.

    Back in the day, we used airplanes, a now-forgotten technology like moon landers.

    Then why quote distance to the border? It’s only meaningful by land. A plane can probably fly 500 km in an hour, which isn’t actually so close. 2 hours is even further. That’s most of the way across Europe. As usual, I feel you’re being very disingenuous.

    Have you ever been to China?

    Yes, quite a few times. Thank you for asking, Sir 🙂

    Do you have any idea of how competitive it is? For a brief explanation, read The Western Elite from a Chinese Perspective
    By Puzhong Yao.

    So it seems they’ve created a homogenous and all-encompassing society that only really affords peace and satisfaction to the elite few? Seems about right.

    Inb4 USA comparison, because we already agree its a bad place.

    • Replies: @Half-Jap
  248. denk says:
    @acementhead

    I knew Raimondo, Antiwar.com was my initiation into the world of geopolitics.
    HIs earlier works featured him with a cigarette dangling outta the corner of his mouth.

    Later we heard about his cancer, he also had a gay partner.

    You’r right that he prolly died of natural cause

    Its kinda like a habit for me to talk about autopsy whenever a deceased truth teller was mentioned.
    Often serious, some time only half in jest,
    ……………….
    P.S.
    Then again, we can never be too cynical when it comes to uncle sham.
    For example, no sooner than Chavez complained about the smell of Sulfur at the UN podium , when he got cancered. !

    I’m very critical of the criminal US’ crimes.

    We need all the voices that we can muster to shout out fukus unaccounted crimes,,,

    Harold Pinter

    ‘The United States supported and in many cases engendered every right wing military dictatorship in the world after the end of the Second World War. I refer to Indonesia, Greece, Uruguay, Brazil, Paraguay, Haiti, Turkey, the Philippines, Guatemala, El Salvador, and, of course, Chile. The horror the United States inflicted upon Chile in 1973 can never be purged and can never be forgiven.
    Hundreds of thousands of deaths took place throughout these countries. Did they take place? And are they in all cases attributable to US foreign policy? The answer is yes they did take place and they are attributable to American foreign policy. But you wouldn’t know it.
    It never happened. Nothing ever happened. Even while it was happening it wasn’t happening. It didn’t matter. It was of no interest. The crimes of the United States have been systematic, constant, vicious, remorseless, but very few people have actually talked about them. You have to hand it to America

    https://off-guardian.org/2018/01/24/harold-pinter-in-2005-nobel-address-the-us-is-brutal-indifferent-scornful-and-ruthless/

    BUt i see lots of people pushing their misdirection, that ‘China just as bad’ B.S.

    ———

    Somebody should do an autopsy on Harold Pinter. !

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
    • Thanks: acementhead
    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  249. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:
    @d dan

    Let me put it this way. Mandarin is harder to start (at the beginning) but easier to master (i.e. able to be useful). English is easier to start but harder to master.

    Yes, precisely. It’s the little trail of dopamine at the beginning that keeps people going. By the time the trail runs out, they’re already having low level daily conversions and learning more effortlessly.

    Learning Mandarin is like eating oats without milk (or rice without sauce). There’s just a total lack of reward.

    Just to clarify, do you mean Mandarin is not a suitable language for complex topic or do you mean it is hard for majority of Mandarin learners to discuss complex topic? I would agree with the later but not the former.

    No, I don’t mean that at all. My Mandarin is well below the level where I could pass comment on its suitability for discussing complex topics. As for the second question, I would say that mainland Chinese are culturally blinkered by their homogenous introspective society so it naturally follows that 95% of worldwide Mandarin speakers are not in the habit of having UR-style discussions. The other 5% who live outside China either have the choice to learn English, or give up on critical thinking and watch an endless stream of cat videos and stupid challenges.

    As for your other points, I’m not in a position to disagree. In principle, I’m actually quite optimistic as Mandarin is a primarily visual language which could lend itself to much faster human computer interfaces but, in reality, I observe that the living and breathing Mandarin speaking culture is ideologically anaemic.

  250. denk says:
    @Anonymous

    There’s nothing funny about that ‘obscure plot’, its yet another monstrous crime under uncle sham’s belt.

    Have some respect for the man, dont twist his words….
    Raimondo was chastising fukus
    with us or against us‘ mantra.

    In the new cold war atmosphere generated by Washington and its journalistic amen-corner, one is either “pro-China” or “anti-China” – with nothing in between. Yet, in between two giants is precisely where Nepal has always been, in spite of India’s best efforts to treat it as a protectorate

    NOthing to do with your ‘team China, team murikka‘ nonsense.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  251. @Erebus

    It’s my view that we’re approaching that line at accelerating pace, and that we’ll surely hit it before the decade is out. In fact, my readings and “gut feel” say it’ll be crossed before the decade is half over. The final semester of the next presidential term is as likely a terminus as any other.

    My estimate of the timing of $ crash is conditional. If the DC morons (yes, they are ideologues, but their ideology is moronic) act rashly, rapid catastrophic crash happens in 2-3 years. If they abstain from stupid moves, slow and a lot less catastrophic decline of the $ can be stretched over 10-15 years.

  252. Lin says:
    @Bankotsu

    Most people are too emotional or have the wrong idea regarding Mao’s achievements and shortcomings. Lets first put aside the fact that he was the founder of the People’s Republic of China:
    1)His biggest shortcoming was not to start population control from the 1950s like a 2-kids/couple policy. If he did, china’s population should have stabilized at 750-800 millions by now. Population demographic have much inertia and it’ll take centuries to change and the averse effects are long lasting.
    2)His greatest achievement was his courage to criticize china’s past though he was excessive(and his excess was quickly corrected after his death).The arab/muslim, hindu and Chinese civilisations had/have been defeated by the western powers repeatedly; why? Something wrong with those civilisations. In the year 1919, there started the Chinese ‘May 4th’ movement of critical civilizational self-reappraisal and traditional confucist misogyny/patriarchy/moral orthodoxy was condemned as ‘cannibalism’. All the old gen Chinese communists were followers of this movement. Radical it might sound, it demonstrated that Chinese have the civilizational strength to admit and correct the weakness.
    (His ‘Great Leap Forward’ and economic policy mishap were relative minor because recent history has demonstrated that the Chinese economy can grow leaps and bounds).
    ……………..
    As I said before, Chinese have great sense of cultural lineage(eg, the average Chinese high school students can read ancient texts, albeit slowly)but it doesn’t mean Chinese habitually romanticize the past. Another example I pointed out before: Both Jesus and Confucius have parentage issues; Christians tell you Jesus is the Son of God while ancient Chinese history records state that Confucius was a bastard

  253. @SomeoneInAsia

    The CCP is a creation of the east… Re Soviet Union fucking tool! Communism, Socialism Marx are all Eastern European phenomena…

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  254. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @denk

    Are all of you guys crazy?

    • Replies: @denk
  255. AnonCN says:

    @Lin
    You are totally wrong about Mao’s population policy.
    China’s biggest mistake from 1949 is one-child policy. Not Mao’s more baby more strength policy.
    You realize all the poor countries somehow develop the population rapidly than rich countries? Do find the secret behind that? That’s the nature’s balance.
    What happens to a poorer country shrinking its population at the same time? Any idea?
    HR is the only reliable resource to reserve the country/nation/civilization at the time.
    You think China should be better 0.8 billion? Why not 0.08 billion? Why not 80 billion?
    Historically Chinese is 1/4 of the world population. Currently it dropped to 1/5 and kept dropping.
    In your perfect world, China should drop to 1/20? 1/200?
    What is your data for the land/ocean shrink to make a perfect world?

    ‘The arab/muslim, hindu and Chinese civilisations had/have been defeated by the western powers repeatedly; why? ‘
    As civilization, China got defeated once by western powers. Not repeatedly.
    If you are Chinese, still bashing yourself for the humiliation memory? Is it so, that in your sub-conscious China should be undefeatable? Come on, take it easy, one defeat doesn’t get you to deny yourself completely as long as you learn from it and come back a better you.
    You grow up in the 20th century, so it’s nature for you to feel/describe t that way.
    矫枉必须过正, that the same thing Mao did in his time.
    But we are finishing 1/5 of the 21st century, you may want to correct your feelings and cherish yourself again.

    If you are arab/muslim, hindu, all living civilization has its pros&cons, ups&downs, so just keep adapt, living and evolving and learning, as long as your identity is alive, with your size and seize the fate in your own hand, you have bight future in front of you.

    If you are western powers, yeah, you are great, you are special, you are chosen, your God love you. Yes, you are undefeatable, you are eternal. As time goes by, all your worries die.

    • Replies: @Lin
  256. denk says:
    @Anonymous

    Idiot !

    Im going to skip your nonsense.
    How am I supposed to file an anon into my bozo file /

    gET a gawd damned handle , now forchrissake, !

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  257. Herald says:
    @Cyrano

    Japan and Germany are US vassal states, so dream on. Russia’s future is with China, there is no other viable option.

    • Replies: @Cyrano
    , @AnonFromTN
  258. Half-Jap says:
    @Anonymous

    Before I would have defended this guy to a comment like this, but he is a see no evil, speak no evil, and never have any doubt about anything officially published by the CCP, is not what Unz Review deserves. He is incapable of answering any tough questions directly, and always deflects. He is a master of crushing simple and stupid biases, but never a champion to be seen when there is a slight challenge.
    Another perspective, sure, but a doctrinaire zealot is not what we need here.
    He is an embarrassment even to the CCP of today.

  259. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @denk

    So, yes?

  260. Half-Jap says:
    @Anonymous

    G. Roberts, the more I see his responses to good questions, the more I doubt he knows much more than the surface stats that he so solidly insists are indisputably accurate, and references preferred experts. It is as if he doesn’t understand how a proper argument or debate works.
    For all intents and purposes, he is a troll for what he believes to be the CCP or China. It is embarrassing, regardless of the merits (and criticisms) China deserves. This is not the guy you want to head your PR campaign, as nobody will take him seriously.

  261. FB says: • Website
    @Anonymous

    Look asshat number 413…I don’t normally respond to you fools who don’t even bother to use a handle so we can see your commenting history…

    However, sometimes I need to step in and correct blatant diarrhea from obvious know-nothings…

    And I’m sure the Americans have nothing up their sleeves with the last 30 years of military technological improvement since.

    Then please, since you are SURE…go right ahead and inform me about the NEW weapons for SEAD and going after air defense systems…[BTW, Kosovo was 21 years ago, not 30…learn to count at least…]

    The fact is there is no change since Kosovo in 1999…the same AGM88 HARM missiles that managed to kill only THREE of the obsolete short range air defense missile launchers are exactly what is used today…NO IMPROVEMENT…

    So is the AN/ALQ99 jamming pod carried by attack aircraft…

    Yugoslavia capitulated in 78 days…

    Did they…?

    Go and read the UN Security Council Resolution 1244 that came about as a result of the illegal US and Nato war…it guarantees Serbian territorial integrity, which is is what Serbia demanded all along…

    Why do you think that Kosovo is not legally a country…?…even UN maps show it as part of Serbia…

    You know very little…which is of course usually the case with you ‘anonymous’ retards here on this discussion forum…

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  262. Anonymous[172] • Disclaimer says:
    @FB

    FYI, Ron has effectively banned regular commentators who weren’t onboard with Corona hysteria, so they can only post anonymously. (Well, he’s restricted their ability to post regularly under their old handles, which amounts to the same thing.) You’re probably ok with that, but don’t give us any bullshit about free and open debate here.

    Anyway, instead of copying-and-pasting the same stuff on NATO’s bombing of Serbia that you’ve done countless times, maybe you can explain how their experience there impeded the Americans ability to subsequently wage aggressive war?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  263. Cyrano says:
    @Herald

    Nothing lasts forever.

  264. @Anonymous

    I get that you’re mental, but what does it say about Ron that he gives you so much airtime?

    It says that Mr. Unz doesn’t read half the stuff published on his site. I have no problem with that, as he has created a great platform, no matter what I think of the (often idiotic) writers.

    As an example, after Mr. Unz came up with his theories on the Kung Flu conspiracies and then came on a lot to tell the commenters that have doubts about the totalitarian responses that they are “hoaxers”, Michelle Malkin got a new venue on here on unz. I think she’s great, but does Mr. Unz know that her first 3 or so columns here were as anti-panic, oops, “hoaxey” as all get-out? Shhhhhh….

  265. Vaterland says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Now, about whites being divided. Our problem is not so much that we are divided, as that our thieving elites are united.

    Now that’s probably the most lucid line I have ever read from you.

  266. Lin says:
    @AnonCN

    China’s biggest mistake from 1949 is one-child policy. Not Mao’s more baby more strength policy.

    Do I need to remind people here china has low farmland&and water resource/capita problem.

    You realize all the poor countries somehow develop the population rapidly than rich countries? Do find the secret behind that?

    Poor countries might have faster growth rate just like a 1 yr old child has higher% growth in height and height than a 10 yrs old.

    As civilization, China got defeated once by western powers. Not repeatedly.

    Apparently you’re an idiot; Enuff said

  267. @denk

    “Somebody should do an autopsy on Harold Pinter. !”

    Denk, I’d like to add to your list if I may:
    – Gen. Douglas Macarthur
    – UN Secretary General Dag Hammerskjold, “modern Europe’s most favorite son”;
    – JFK
    – MLK (USG found guilty of “wrongful civil death” in 1999)
    – Malcolm X
    – various members of Black Panther Party (BPP), aka Black Panther Party for Self-Defense
    – RFK
    – Chilean President Salvador Allende
    – NZ PM, Norman Kirk, after protesting French nuclear-weapons testing in the Pacific & taking France to the International Court of Justice (ICJ)
    – Anwar Sadat
    – Pope John Paul I (after CIA’s 1958 infiltration of the Vatican)
    – US Sen. Larry Macdonald
    – Princess Diana
    – UK Chief scientist, Dr David Kelly & other minor government officials, diplomats, ambassdors
    – Saddam Hussein (even tho’ a CIA asset)
    – Hugo Chavez
    – Pakistani PM & Pres. candidate Benazir Bhutto
    – Col. Muammar Gaddafi
    – Seth Rich & other minor political party officials,
    – Anthony Bourdain, Kate Spade and the entire Clinton body count
    – social activists: Gary Webb, etc

    NOTE: This list does not include important political figures and dignitaries killed in plane “crashes” officially deemed as “accidents”

    When you see the unbelievably long, seldom reported, list of targeted assassinations of Palestinian Liberation movement members (far too may to list here) its immediately apparent how extensively targeted assassination is used as a tool of Anglo-Zionist imperial-state violence.

    Perhaps other well-informed UR contributors can add to this list?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @denk
    , @AnonFromTN
  268. @Exile

    But the actuality is that an establishment of a national security law is enshrined in the Article 23 of the Basic Law as agreed with the Sino-British agreement. The meddling is only causing this extra step – but it’s not China who is breaking the agreement. News media in the West never points that out… Though many in Asia do.

  269. @Amerimutt Golems

    Indeed up through the 80’s South Korea was under military rule. Taiwan likewise was under martial law for 40 years.

  270. @Ultrafart the Brave

    and @acementhead

    A Third War which will annihilate the majority-Christian and the majority-Muslim nations of the Northern Hemisphere, has been in the popular consciousness since “the war to end all wars” coined by HG Wells, but popularly attributed to US Pres. Woodrow Wilson. The aphorism, ‘it always comes in threes’ lends support to this belief.

    For instance, my European g/father always used to say “the world started in the Mideast and will end in the Mideast” (which doesn’t mean that the world actually started in the Middle East, that was just his understanding).

    Since September 11th 2001, but particularly since the 2014 US-sponsored fascist (aka UkroNazi) coup in Ukraine, Russia’s reunification with Crimea, the MH17 shootdown, and the US’s ongoing China Containment policy we can see the steps taken leading to the world’s people being hoodwinked into consenting to a global war for the third time – its not like we’re sleepwalking into it. We’re witnessing the demonization of targeted countries, e.g, Iran, Russia, China, Venezuela, Yemen (its too late for Argentina, Brasil, Ecuador, Bolivia, etc) on an almost daily basis now, as the US & its vassal states and Western media ‘ramp up’ their rhetoric to engender compliance to Anglo-Zionist imperial machinations.

    And now, I wonder which ethno-religious group with its well known blue-print for World Domination (a very, very old concept, btw) would benefit from Christians and Muslims wiping each other out, hmmm. Let me narrow it down for you learned contributors to this site – I’m not alluding to the Hindus, the Buddhists or the Daoists.

  271. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    FYI, Ron has effectively banned regular commentators who weren’t onboard with Corona hysteria, so they can only post anonymously.

    Perhaps this is why the quality of anonymous posts has increased a lot of late?

    It’s very good of Ron to permit us a way around his own shortcomings (and very bad of Anatoly Karlin not to – I consider him a blacklisted author since there’s no point reading or contributing to such a heavily censored comments section).

    If censorship gets worse on UNZ, where else can we go?

    Anyone care to recommend a forum where intelligent people from both sides of the debate can get their voices heard?

  272. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Patagonia Man

    Don’t forget Deez Nuts.

  273. @Miro23

    Well indeed the Saxon in Anglo-Saxon makes sense

  274. Bill says:
    @V. Hickel

    Right after they quit calling George Zimmerman white.

  275. Mefobills says:
    @Ultrafart the Brave

    I’ve read somewhere that President Kennedy intended to do that – but he never got the chance to do so.

    If it has a red seal… it is treasury money, not “federal reserve notes.”

    • Thanks: Ultrafart the Brave
  276. FB says: • Website
    @Miro23

    Anglos are similar to Germans. They like scientific and technological challenges. Both have a great history in science and technology, which transferred to the US, making it the world’s leading manufacturing nation.

    In contrast, Jews value media, entertainment and financial dealing…

    That is a quite stupid generalization…obviously you have no professional connection to science…

    As much as it may be true that Jews are prominent in finance and media, it is also true that they absolutely dominated the hard sciences in the most important era of scientific advancement…

    The modern world was invented in the first half of the twentieth century…everything that came before happened much more slowly…

    Mathematics and physics in this era was absolutely dominated by Jews…look at the development of nuclear physics for instance…

    I remember some of my professors who came along in that era, or just at the tail end of it…Jews from humble backgrounds that had a real drive for science, instilled by family upbringing…

    Also worth noting here is that it was the ‘socialist’ policies of FDR that made the US the world’s leading manufacturing nation…along with the opportunity of WW2 for massive war production…FDR said America wasn’t going to enter the war, but would instead be the ‘arsenal of democracy’…building planes and guns and trucks and tanks for Britain and Russia…

    Also worth noting is that by 1950 the USSR was probably a close second to the US in manufacturing, if not in the lead in many areas…it was FDR and Stalin [they both admired one another] that built modern Russia and America, as well as their respective technology legacies that to this day are world leading…

    Your understanding of the history of science and technology is very deficient…not really any better than the ‘author’ of the ridiculous tripe you chose to excerpt here…

    • Replies: @Miro23
  277. @MEH 0910

    Ahhh yes the liar in chief Pompeo… Most of the illiterate Congress has no clue what the Basic Law and Sino British Declaration said. Hong Kong was never autonomous. It was to have a “high degree of autonomy”. A huge difference. It was also required to implement national security laws – which it didn’t do.
    Who was it that said if you tell a lie enough times – people will believe it? Most of the people on that Twitter feed responding to him seem like psychopaths.

    The truth behind Pompeo’s statement: “our intelligence services won’t have free reign in Hong Kong anymore so we have to find another way to cause problems”.

  278. Aldon says:

    More or less all the hatred for China in this site comes from the following:

    1. “Progressives” who’d defend the likes of the Ottoman Turks and deny massacres commited by them and other non-Europeans since tbey claim them as a force for social justice against the hated Christians/Whites.

    2. Neocons and crypto-Neocons.

    3. Jews.

    4. Lolbergs and other liberals who hate da gubnimt.

    5. Muslims.

    6. Progs who quickly run to the defense of the Uyghurs in some “self-determination” terrorism support LARP.

    China is a land that has no tolerance for deviancy like chopping your penis off and wearing a dress, doesn’t pretend some Negroes have a claim to the country, has most of their geopolitics concentrated on fhe Far East rather than bombing goatherds and blaming Russia for an election’s direction, demands minorities know their place. They’re a much more swell neighbor than the likes of Muslim countries or America.

    • Replies: @Smith
  279. AnonCN says:

    @Lin
    ‘Do I need to remind people here china has low farmland&and water resource/capita problem.’
    Do I need to remind you China feed its population of 1.4billion by herself?

    ‘Poor countries might have faster growth rate just like a 1 yr old child has higher% growth in height and height than a 10 yrs old. ‘

    You don’t get it. You mean growth in economy. I said poor countries must have faster growth rate in population! It’s a nature’s balance.
    What kind of poor country have shrink population? Warring state.

    I shouldn’t take you seriously as someone to communicate history. Since you the kind of people who believe each battle between some two countries is a win/defeat between two civilizations.
    You have no sense of what civilization competition means.

    • Replies: @Lin
  280. @Anonymous

    “You’re missing the point.”

    Sorry, dude, you might have to spell it out.

    I’m not that sharp at the best of times.

  281. denk says:
    @Patagonia Man

    Yes Im aware of those,
    tip of an iceberg.

    Off hand I can think of another one,,,
    JOhn Garang of Sudan.

    Carrot and the stick, inducements and threats by the worlds superpower forced Garang and Bashir to accept the dismemberment of Sudan and created the conditions for one of the most brutal civil wars in African history. This was the doings of the USA from the get go.

    After signing the peace deal John Garang, as head of the Sudanese Peoples Liberation Movement (SPLM), held his first public rally in Khartoum and drew a million people or more, three times the largest crowd Bashir had ever had. There he made a fateful speech.

    John Garang made it clear that he was strongly AGAINST independence for South Sudan, instead calling on his fellow Sudanese in the North to help elect him president to build a new Sudan based on equal rights and justice for all Sudanese.

    Garang stated his intent to be politically independent from the western powers instead looking to China, already in the oil business in Sudan, to develop Sudans economy. Sudan, as a whole, is the largest and potentially richest country in Africa and for the USA to lose Sudan to China wasn’t acceptable to Pax Americana.

    John Garang was dead two weeks later in a mysterious helicopter crash and with him died a unified Sudan.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/brief-history-cia-dirty-war-south-sudan/5685393?print=1

    FUKUS

    All the world are belong to us, get off my turf.

  282. @attilathehen

    China will rule the world. They won’t even have any competition to speak of. My father, who is Joe Biden’s age but not at all senile, pointed out as we were watching coverage of the riots that a long era of Black rule is looming over America. That’s because their truculence will give them control over the Democrat Party while mass Third World immigration will give the Democrat Party a monopoly on power. Take a moment to picture some prominent Black American politicians in your head. Is there even the remotest possibility a country ruled by them will continue to be the world’s leading power? You may say, “But 20 years ago, when China’s economy was one fourth the size it is now, my sister thought Dongguan looked kind of shabby.”

    Get real.

    • Replies: @attilathehen
  283. @VinnyVette

    Communism, Socialism Marx are all Eastern European phenomena…

    Last time I checked, Marx was from Western Germany. I never knew that Germany is Eastern Europe, or that China is Europe at all. Is this new geography?

    • Replies: @FB
  284. @Herald

    Japan and Germany are US vassal states, so dream on. Russia’s future is with China, there is no other viable option.

    First, vassalage is not necessarily forever. Second, I don’t think Putin is working to replace Pax Americana with Pax Sinica. He is trying to create a multi-polar world for a good reason. If imperial elites had any brains left, they’d be working in the same direction.

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
    • Replies: @Patagonia Man
  285. @Patagonia Man

    This list does not include important political figures and dignitaries killed in plane “crashes” officially deemed as “accidents”

    In the Soviet Union there were numerous jokes involving Armenian Radio. One of them was this:
    Listeners ask Armenian Radio, what is a difference between a sad occurrence and a catastrophe?
    Armenian Radio responds: let us explain using examples. Say, your wife leaves you. This is a sad occurrence, but not a catastrophe. Now, say, an airplane full of party and government officials crashes. This is a catastrophe, but not a sad occurrence.

    • Agree: Jazman
    • LOL: FB, showmethereal
    • Replies: @Jazman
    , @Wielgus
  286. FB says: • Website
    @AnonFromTN

    😂 😂 😂 …Yes…another ‘rocket scientist’ here on UNZ…

  287. Miro23 says:
    @FB

    Anglos are similar to Germans. They like scientific and technological challenges. Both have a great history in science and technology, which transferred to the US, making it the world’s leading manufacturing nation.

    In contrast, Jews value media, entertainment and financial dealing…

    That is a quite stupid generalization…obviously you have no professional connection to science…

    I don’t have a professional connection to science , but I’ve studied economic history.

    The country that generated the first Industrial Revolution (around 1760 – 1840) was Great Britain.

    This transition included going from hand production methods to machines, new chemical manufacturing and iron production processes, the increasing use of steam power and water power, the development of machine tools and the rise of the mechanized factory system. The Industrial Revolution also led to an unprecedented rise in the rate of population growth.

    Textiles were the dominant industry of the Industrial Revolution in terms of employment, value of output and capital invested. The textile industry was also the first to use modern production methods.

    The Industrial Revolution began in Great Britain, and many of the technological innovations were of British origin.[2][3] By the mid-18th century Britain was the world’s leading commercial nation,
    Wikipedia.

    Vaclav Simil, in his excellent book “Creating the 20th Century: Technical Innovations of 1867-1914 and Their Lasting Impact” covers a lot of subsequent ground:

    Electricity & turbines (Faraday, Edison, Tesla, Parsons, Westinghouse).

    Internal Combustion Engines (Benz, Diesel, Otto, Daimler, Bosch, Ford).

    Powered flight (Wright brothers).

    New materials – Steel (Bessemer, Siemens, Hadfield, Marsh). Aluminium (Davy, Wöhler, Hall, Héroult). Explosives (Nobel), Ammonia synthesis (Haber).

    Communications and Information – Linotype (Mergenthaler). Papermaking (Tilghman, Dahl). Cameras/Film (Eastman, Edison). Sound/telephones/recording (Bell, Edison). Hertzian waves (Maxwell, Hertz, Marconi).

    A lot of Anglo-German input here in building the West’s world leadership in science and manufacturing.

  288. Jazman says:
    @AnonFromTN

    I have to show you one answer . You are completely right when you talkabout Polish victim mentality
    Soviet admitted to using german weapons and ammo. and 2. Polish government is not repeating the same mistake of leading the politics of 2 enemies German and Russia, they do so by ignoring the German crimes which is easier due to a number of reasons. 1. relations with german are more beneficial than with Russians. 2. Germany admitted to all of its crimes, and 3 there is a common economic zone and free movement zone. Nobody in Germany denies atrocities committed against polish nation, while in Russia propagation of alternative history as fact is common. recent example of Putin accusing Poland of starting WW2 was one such example”
    So incident with WW2 Polish officers Soviet guns kept jamming that is why they used Nazi bullets. Poland is really strange country

  289. Lin says:
    @AnonCN

    Do I need to remind you China feed its population of 1.4billion by herself?

    What do u mean? 2 bowls of rice/day south asian standard or 80-120 kg of meat/yr developed world standard? Do u know china imported 85 million ton of soy/yr(not counting other food items)?

    You don’t get it. You mean growth in economy. I said poor countries must have faster growth rate in population! It’s a nature’s balance.

    So it’s alright like Nigeria to have 5.5 kids/couple or cramming 127 million people into indian state of Bihar(with area of 94,000 sq km, about the size of US state of Indiana). What ‘nature’s balance’? You’ve no mental balance nor number sense.

    I shouldn’t take you seriously as someone to communicate history.Since you the kind of people who believe each battle between some two countries is a win/defeat between two civilizations.

    I laugh my butt off !! You don’t know the Israelis repeatedly beat the crap out of the arabs, not just in wars?
    …………..
    My conclusion: You’re an idiot.

    • Troll: Erebus
    • Replies: @Erebus
  290. @Ray Caruso

    Are you face-planted in Chinese or any kind of Asian poontang?

  291. I take it there’s agreement on this point: Serbia’s effectiveness against NATO had absolutely no bearing on the Americans’ ability to wage aggressive war. (And LOL about the mighty UN’s resolution re. Kosovo; nearly 100 countries recognize Kosovo’s independence, the Serb’s control of it is less than nominal.) This should not be surprising: American strategy is based on the absence of domestic socio-political opposition to military action. And this in turn depends on the American population avoiding any serious or discernible costs of military action. Hence sledgehammer-against-flies operations represent successes, not failures. It’s true that a clever opponent can score short-term tactical successes against the Americans (like the Serbs did), but that’s completely irrelevant. (That’s also, BTW, why the Russians will eventually lose in Syria.) The military geeks here who are more concerned with showing off their technical knowledge have failed to understand some basics of the American Empire.

    • Replies: @FB
    , @FB
  292. FB says: • Website
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    Countries ‘recognizing’ Kosovo keep shrinking…illustrating that it’s difficult in today’s world order to create fake countries…

    The ONLY time that ever worked was when both superpowers greenlighted it…I assume you are ‘smart’ enough to guess which country I’m talking about…

    Your understanding of how the world actually works seems rather sketchy…despite your pomposity…

    No one was asking whether Serbia’s surprising military resilience somehow ‘impeded’ US ability to launch more foreign adventures…that’s not what was being discussed…

    Go back and check what was at issue…and then, if you actually have anything remotely useful to add, then please go ahead…

    As for Syria…I guess you are consulting your so far ‘infallible’ Magic Eight Ball when you predict that Russia’s going

  293. FB says: • Website
    @Beefcake the Mighty

    [keyboard mishap]

    Where was I, Beefaroni…?

    Oh yes, your Magic Eight Ball…which tells you Russia is going to get sent packing in Syria…

    Will that be before or after the Syrian government regains the small amount of territory not yet in its hands…?😂

    Or maybe you have been reading the MSM headlines…where lately they have been ‘predicting’ a very big reversal of fortune for Assad and Putin is just around the corner…?

    Well…you know what…I happen to appreciate a good headline laugh myself from time to time…here’s a list about China that is good for a laugh…

    [MORE]

    1990. China’s economy has come to a halt. The Economist
    1996. China’s economy will face a hard landing. The Economist
    1998. China’s economy’s dangerous period of sluggish growth. The Economist
    1999. Likelihood of a hard landing for the Chinese economy. Bank of Canada
    2000. China currency move nails hard landing risk coffin. Chicago Tribune
    2001. A hard landing in China. Wilbanks, Smith & Thomas
    2002. China Seeks a Soft Economic Landing. Westchester University
    2003. Banking crisis imperils China. New York Times
    2004. The great fall of China? The Economist
    2005. The Risk of a Hard Landing in China. Nouriel Roubini
    2006. Can China Achieve a Soft Landing? International Economy
    2007. Can China avoid a hard landing? TIME
    2008. Hard Landing In China? Forbes
    2009. China’s hard landing. China must find a way to recover. Fortune
    2010: Hard landing coming in China. Nouriel Roubini
    2011: Chinese Hard Landing Closer Than You Think. Business Insider
    2012: Economic News from China: Hard Landing. American Interest
    2013: A Hard Landing In China. Zero Hedge
    2014. A hard landing in China. CNBC
    2015. Congratulations, You Got Yourself A Chinese Hard Landing. Forbes
    2016. Hard landing looms for China. The Economist
    2017. Is China’s Economy Going To Crash? National Interest
    2018. China’s Coming Financial Meltdown. The Daily Reckoning.
    2019 China’s Economic Slowdown: How worried should we be? BBC
    2020. Coronavirus Could End China’s Decades-Long Economic Growth Streak. NY Times

  294. Smith says:
    @Aldon

    Or the asian neighbors who frankly have quite enough of chinks.

  295. Wielgus says:
    @AnonFromTN

    Often referred to as Radio Yerevan.

  296. @AnonFromTN

    Its really quite encouraging to observe the synergy that’s been developing between China and Russia since the early 2000’s – but seriously, what choice did they have?

    After:
    – the so-called ‘Color Revolutions’ of E. Europe;
    – the dismemberment of the former Yugoslavia;
    – the so-called ‘Arab Spring’ which were, in reality, CIA/US Special Ops-regime changes;
    – NATO moving up to Russia’s borders culminating with the US-sponsored ‘Ukro-nazi’ coup in 2014 (in spite of the assurances given to Gorbachev that NATO “would not move one inch eastward”); and
    – Putin even asking if Russia could join NATO, which, of course, was refused, (begging the question what is the true purpose of NATO?),

    Russia under Putin, and China under Hu Jintao (2002-12) continuing with Xi Jinping, realized that they were ‘sitting ducks’ if they didn’t start cooperating and seeking ways of developing their own economies and integrating Eurasia to create a larger consumer market for trade to the mutual benefit of all countries. Hence, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) and the Belt-and-Road Initiative (BRI) to which sixty-three nations have now signed up voluntarily.

    [MORE]

    Having witnessed the tragic death tolls and widespread destruction by the US & its vassal states of:
    – Afghanistan (2001-current),
    – Iraq (2003),
    – Lebanon (2006),
    – Libya (2011),
    – Syria (2011-present),
    – South Sudan (2011-20) and
    – Yemen (currently),

    in addition to the regime change operations (aka ‘Operation Condor 2.0’) in
    – Paraguay (2012),
    – Argentina (2015),
    – Brasil (2016),
    – Bolivia (2019),
    – Ecuador (2019),
    – Venezuela (ongoing)

    as well as the ongoing US interventions under the pretexts of :-
    • “fighting” a terrorist organization in:
    – Nigeria,
    – Chad,
    – Niger, and
    – N. Cameroon;
    • “interdicting illicit activity” in:
    – Angola,
    – Burundi,
    – Cameroon,
    – Central African Republic,
    – Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC),
    – Rep. of Congo,
    – Equatorial Guinea,
    – Rwanda, and
    – Gabon;
    and
    • “degrading violent extremist organizations” in:
    – Algeria,
    – Libya,
    – Mauritania,
    – Morocco,
    – Tunisia, and
    – Western Sahara

    … is it any wonder that the leaderships of China & Russia, (what some are calling ‘the double-helix’) have realized that they’re locked in a battle for their very existence?

    • Replies: @AnonFromTN
  297. @Patagonia Man

    Yep, that’s exactly what I was saying. The Empire, to its peril, forced Russian-Chinese de facto alliance. China and Russia share a multi-thousand miles border, so normal pragmatic relations are in their interests. But an alliance is not natural and wouldn’t have ever happened w/o imperial stupidity. The Empire is now trying to use India as an anti-China wedge, but the chances of this succeeding are about the same as were the chances of successful use of Ukraine as an anti-Russian wedge: zero, nil, nada. India today is not in the same league as China, just like Ukraine is not in the same league as Russia. Maximum these wedges can achieve is to create an irritant. The US figured that about Ukraine and Obama administration started using it essentially as money laundering conduit. The realization of India impotence did not happen yet, but the reality is there.

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
  298. DB Cooper says:
    @AnonCN

    Mao is a traitorious piece of shit you dumb fuck. The mother fucker was colluding with China’s enemy of the time Russia, which was still an active land grabber of China at that time when China was fighting the Japanese. The Soviet Union invaded the northeast two days after Japan was nuked you bone head, not to mention the past land grab of Tzarist Russia.

    And write in proper Chinese instead of the ugly as fuck multilated Chinese you piece of shit.

    Once the fucker came into power he conceded China’s land left and right, including outer Mongolia and South Tibet, and this is the reason today’s China is two size smaller than it was before 1949. The Russians were instrumental in carving out of Mongolia and since the fucker’s patron was Russia it is hard to get the land back.

    The mother fucker wrecked China’s economy for thirty years. When the fucker died China was poorer than some of the Sub Sahara countries in Africa. And read this you worthless piece of shit:

    https://fredgan.wordpress.com/2010/06/23/毁于文革中的部分全国珍贵文物古迹名录/

    What do you think of people who is colluding with US right now and subverting China? A traitor! And the US at Mao’s time is Russia.

  299. @DB Cooper

    Yeah, but where’d you leave the $200 Large? I’ll split it with you.

  300. White ethnomasochism is due to the presence of Jews in white countries.

  301. @DB Cooper

    The mother fucker was colluding…

    Once the fucker came into power…

    …the fucker’s patron was Russia…

    When the fucker died…

    Dude, that Mao must have been one serious fucker!

  302. Erebus says:
    @Lin

    Do u know china imported 85 million ton of soy/yr(not counting other food items)?

    Yes, I do know, but do you know who ate it?

    Hint:
    American soy is deemed unfit for human consumption. By law, it’s use is restricted to pig feed, becoming much less toxic to humans after the pigs finish processing it into pork.

    • Replies: @Lin
  303. Lin says:
    @Erebus

    Yes, I do know, but do you know who ate it?

    An event not quite noticed: Corn has displaced rice as biggest crop in china in recent years because Chinese want more meat. Chinese meat consumption(with small % of import)/cap in 2018 is about 63-65 kg. Not much but also not bad.https://www.bbc.com/news/health-47057341

  304. @Godfree Roberts

    So there was no ‘Great Leap Forward’ which resulted in millions of deaths in China? Presumably this was another myth created by the AngloZionists? (Perhaps you could point out for me some publication or article which has debunked this myth — if myth it is — and which is not from mainland China.)

    I’m sure Mao did a significant number of good things (as at least a few of the mainland Chinese I talked to were ready to acknowledge), but I still find it hard to believe that he never made any mistakes. Your accounts of him frankly make him look like a god in the flesh.

    I love China’s traditional culture. I just don’t think your excessively positive accounts of China today are warranted.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  305. FB says: • Website

    So there was no ‘Great Leap Forward’ which resulted in millions of deaths in China?

    Presumably this was another myth created by the AngloZionists?

    That’s right fool…

    Why is it hard to believe that the world is full of Pavlovian dupes like yourself who actually don’t know anything…have actually never seen anything first hand…and have only been exposed to ridiculous propaganda…?

    Dongping Han is a professor of history at a US university who grew up in China during the Great Leap Forward…why don’t you ask him how it was…he will gladly tell you or anyone…and he has in fact…

    The Socialist Legacy Underlies the Rise of Today’s China in the World

    After reading that, then come back with SPECIFIC questions…we don’t have time for nonsense from various illiterates here…

    • Replies: @Poco
  306. Poco says:
    @FB

    Was the great leap forward cancelled after three years because it was a disaster?

    Did Mao fall out of favor after it’s cancellation (until 1967) because it was a great success?

    Did party officials carry off most of the food to serve as the cities’ share of the harvest, leaving the farmers with nothing to eat.?

    Were Chinese citizens moved onto communes, and to farming cooperatives involuntarily, while others worked in small manufacturing, and all work shared on the communes; from childcare to cooking, and daily tasks collectivized?

    Were children taken from their parents and put into large childcare centers to be tended to by workers assigned that task?

    • Replies: @FB
  307. FB says: • Website
    @Poco

    Look fool…you may think it’s a worthwhile use of your time to see just how far you can go on the retard scale…

    But I would suggest that it’s a better use of time to actually read the essay…there was no widespread starvation…neither while prof Han was in China during the late 1950s and early ’60s…nor later when, as a historian researching the era he traveled back and tried to find ANYONE who could tell of ANY starving people…

    I would be more certain believing that more Americans starved during the Dust Bowl years [as described by John Steinbeck]…than Chinese starving during the Great Leap Forward…

    • Replies: @Poco
  308. @SomeoneInAsia

    Correctamento! There was no ‘Great Leap Forward’ which resulted in millions of deaths in China.
    This was another myth created by the AngloZionists.
    Here is are publications or articles which have debunked this myth:

    https://www.unz.com/article/mao-reconsidered-part-two-whose-famine/

    https://www.unz.com/article/mao-reconsidered/?highlight=mao

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  309. Poco says:
    @FB

    Easy Nancy, easy. Now, clean the sand out of your female parts and take a pamprin.
    I’m well aware of what the dustbowl era of the US was like. Never made any claims about it or the US. The subject, dullard, was the great leap forward.
    I read the shill piece essay and came back with some specific questions as you requested. You have quite the crush on Mao Zedong. He puts a thrill up your leg I can see. Didn’t realize I was stepping on the toes of your dream man.
    I also know that the transition from an agrarian society to an industrial one is always going to take longer than 3 or 5 years and it’s also going to cause mass dislocations and other assorted problems. Especially when attempted with idiotic policies like Mao maos.
    But then, I suppose your crush wasn’t capable of realizing that, or didn’t care. Run along now, calm yourself. The boo boo on your feelzies will heal with time.

  310. In reading this article, I thought of Carroll Quigley’s massive 800-page tome, Tragedy and Hope. In it, Quigley made some excellent points, revealed some uncomfortable truths (that got his book banned for about 40 years), but much of it was also nonsense, written by a man wearing ideological blinders and unable to see even the most obvious things.

    From this article:
    “The NPC is not really a legislature in any dictionary sense. It’s Totalitarian Theater. There is very occasionally—two or three times per decade—some muffled resistance to edicts from the Politburo; but even those have had a staged quality about them,”

    Derbyshire made some good points but then writes nonsense like this. No knowledge, no actual information, just repeating rubbish he’d read somewhere and which he chose to believe.

    The Chinese way is different than the American way, much more civilized and practical. China has only one political party so there is no partisan infighting as in the US, and discussions of new policy are ‘family matters’ to be discussed in private until a decision is made. The Chinese do not hang their dirty laundry out in public as do Americans, and Parliamentary procedures are not soap operas or Reality TV series.

    When new legislation is contemplated, there is enormous discussion behind the scenes with officials mixing in all combinations to discuss, debate, argue, sort out the wheat from the chaff, and slowly and finally arriving at a consensus. When the legislation reaches the parliamentary floor, everyone (or mostly everyone) is already onside and the vote is just a ratification of the consensus already obtained. Almost no one will then vote against, or even raise supplementary issues because in a real sense, it is too late.

    China is the antithesis of a rubber-stamp parliament but people like Derbyshire are too arrogant and too blinded by their own ideology to see it for what it is – a system far superior to ours in the West. China’s Parliamentary Floor where the voting takes place is merely a Ratification Floor, with everything important having already happened behind the scenes – in the same Parliament.

    Moreover, since the Chinese do not have the American version of “democracy” with its built-in Darwinist bullying by the majority, they will never propose legislation that is opposed by 50% or even 20% of the government leaders. Where the West is an all or nothing, I win and you lose, 51% takes all and the rest of you can go suck eggs, the Chinese will delay legislation for months or even years until a consensus is reached. Legislation hated and rejected by half of the parliament members has no chance of passing, whereas in the US it happens all the time. 51%. I win and you lose and, because you’re the loser, nobody cares what you want.

    The American system is corrupt and stupid, while that of China is exemplary, and Derbyshire should know better. It is irritating to read articles that contain a few truths interspersed with rubbish presented as fact. It requires too much effort to filter the content and try to identify what is real and what is idelological bullshit, especially when written by a man who doesn’t know, who doesn’t know that he doesn’t know, and who is so arrogant that he doesn’t care that he doesn’t know.

    • Agree: d dan
    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @FB
  311. reezy says:

    No public intellectual in China ever wrote that “The yellow race is the cancer of human history” as Susan Sontag wrote of the white race to which she herself belonged. Ethnomasochism is a white pathology.

    Susan Sontag (aka Susan Rosenblatt) is “white”. I know you ain’t dumb Derb. It’s understandable to avoid fixating on a certain Palestinian tribe shall we say, but you don’t need to be repeating their lies for them.

  312. Erebus says:
    @Ayatollah Smith

    China has only one political party…

    I’ve found it more useful to think of the CPC as the government itself, rather than as a political Party in any western sense of partisan politics. It has its “government wing” and its “grassroots/social wing”, and the two together govern the country.

    There’s a wide variety of opinion and no shortage of vigorous debate throughout the ranks, but as you say, once decided any approved policy enjoys the support of the entire Party from the grassiest of the grass roots on up. You simply don’t have the backtracking and stalling that the political and bureaucratic “losers” in a Western system employ to kill policies they don’t like. Net result is that stuff happens fast.

    The rank & file membership being the government’s outreach into the population also ensures that the “government wing” doesn’t stray very far from what the people want.

    … Derbyshire should know better.

    With an arrogance built on a foundation of ignorance, he’s always certain but only occasionally right.

  313. FB says: • Website
    @Ayatollah Smith

    Excellent comment…

    Appreciate your thorough discussion of the Chinese political system, which of course must be quite capable and sophisticated, judging by the results it produces…

    Of course this ‘author’ prefers to understand things in terms of caricatures…if the Chinese government was so ‘totalitarian’ and corrupt, how could they achieve the smashing results that all Chinese folks are so satisfied with…?

    Surely if the people think the country is headed in the right direction, they must be doing something right, no…?

  314. Ron Unz says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Correctamento! There was no ‘Great Leap Forward’ which resulted in millions of deaths in China.
    This was another myth created by the AngloZionists.
    Here is are publications or articles which have debunked this myth:

    Well, I finally got around to reading Yang Jisheng’s 2008 book TOMBSTONE regarding Mao’s Great Leap Forward, which had been very positively reviewed in the elite American MSM and by leading China scholars. Yang had been a high-ranking Chinese journalist with access to leading official sources, and he relies quite heavily on senior PRC scholars and academics.

    The book runs over 600 pages and pretty much settles the issue in my mind. The disastrous famine produced by Mao’s Great Leap Forward was just as bad as I’d always believed it to be, and quite possibly even worse. One of the later chapters which runs 40 pages is devoted to estimating the total number of famine-deaths based upon different methodologies used by different senior Chinese demographers, and most of them converge on a figure of around 35 million, pretty much what I’d always heard. Yang also effectively rebuts the various excuses made by Mao sympathizers.

    The rest of the book provides the detailed case studies of various provinces and is filled with horror-stories, including discussion of the thousands or tens of thousands of documented cases of cannibalism caused by the famine.

    The problem with Godfree Roberts is that he’s just an extreme pro-Mao/pro-China propagandist, and not a very effective one since his more outlandish and poorly-argued claims detract from acceptance of his more correct ones, and probably irritate so many “neutrals” that they become hostile to China as a consequence.

  315. Lin says:

    disastrous famine produced by Mao’s Great Leap Forward was just as bad as I’d always believed it to be

    I must point out one important aspect: How did the GLF induce famine? Some claim chopping down trees to feed backyard steel furnances worsen flood or climate irregularities.
    Before one can reach a sensible conclusion, one must get enough data like the volume of trees cut down, the acreage of deforestation and farm land affected…and to what extend it worsened the already present drought and climate irregularities
    All these data must be analysed by a big team of ecologists and experts to draw sensible conclusion. Without such analysis, most damning ‘conclusion’ are just politicized.

  316. @Ron Unz

    Clearly, Yang Jisheng has proven that I am an extreme pro-Mao/pro-China propagandist and not a very effective one.

    I have not read Yang’s book and what little I know a little about him discourages me. Anyone who claims that his “loyalty to the party was destroyed by the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre,” is unlikely to produce useful reportage.

    Thanks to its size and duration, and the coincident visit of the Soviet head of state, the Tiananmen demonstration was the most widely covered international event of the decade. Yang was at the height of his powers then and there were thousands of disaffected citizens, hundreds of foreign correspondents, and dozens of US and British spies in Tiananmen Square and none witnessed a single death. So what shattered Mr. Yang’s faith? I suspect some personal or professional slight.

    Like holocaust reconstructions, historical famine reconstructions can succeed if you have a willing audience and a motivated publisher. Historian Boris Borisov demonstrated that “Famine killed 7 Million People in the U.S.A.” during the Great Depression–but that was an unpopular conclusion and publishers there were none.

    The fraudster Frank Dikotter collaborated closely with Yang Jisheng to reconstruct a deadly famine that was completely invisible to the thousands of disaffected Chinese citizens, hundreds of US and UK spies, and dozens of foreign journalists then in China–under the watchful eye of the CIA which was specifically tasked with finding a famine to prove that the US Grain Embargo was doing its job of starving Chinese civilians to death. Nada. Zilch.

    Despite the absence of contemporary evidence, my article* allows for millions of Great Leap famine deaths:

    There was a severe famine in China in 1961-62 and the Chinese press called it the most severe since 1879. Grain harvests fell by a third: from two hundred million tons in 1958 to 170 in 1959, to 143 in 1960, to 147 in 1961 and did not fully recover until 1965. The entire Hunan region flooded and the spring harvest in southwest China’s rice bowl been lost to drought, ushering in a three-year El Nino event that would devastate the nation’s cropland. As harvests declined the death rate rose: from twelve per thousand in 1958 to 14.6 in 1959, to 25.4 in 1960, then to 14.2 in 1961.

    In an era when life expectancy was still only fifty-eight, people aged over sixty, weakened by lifetimes of famine and disease, suffered cruelly. In Gao Village, Mobo Gao says that, after 1949, the only suicide in his village occurred during the Great Leap, “A woman hanged herself because of family hardship. The Great Leap Forward years were the only time in anybody’s memory that Gao villagers had to pick wild vegetables and to grind rice husks into powder to make food… Throughout my twenty years in Gao village, I do not remember any particular time when my family had enough to eat… as a rural resident, life was always a matter of survival. However, the Great Leap Forward made life even more difficult.

    If we take twelve deaths per thousand–Mao’s proudest achievement to that point–as our benchmark, then famine-related deaths from 1959-61 total 11.5 million*.

    My estimate is sufficient to cover cover Yang Jieshi’s allegations and, unlike him, I adduce externally verifiable data to support my outlandish and poorly-argued claims:

    * https://www.unz.com/article/mao-reconsidered-part-two-whose-famine/

    • Replies: @FB
    , @Erebus
    , @Ron Unz
  317. @Dumbo

    While not trying to argue any particular point on your comment, I thought it would be interesting to have a list of the top 4 countries ranked by number of emigrants, so here it is:

    1. India
    2. Mexico
    3. Russian Federation
    4. China

    You can check all countries and their immigrant and emigrant situation here:
    https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/total-immigrant-and-emigrant-populations-country

    As for the number of overseas chinese, and you can check it here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overseas_Chinese

  318. FB says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    I would suggest you search the UNZ archives of American political publications of the day [late 1950s and early 1960s] to find mention of the Chinese ‘famine’…

    Surely the American capitalist publications would have written about the starvation of communist China at the time, would they not…?

    If so, it would be a simple matter to find those contemporaneous reports in your archives…we look forward to the fruits of your ‘research’…Thanks…😅 😅 😅

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  319. FB says: • Website
    @Godfree Roberts

    There is a very good review of the Yang book on Amazon…

    Dishonest, may still have uses if treated critically…

    This author is Chinese and represents that sector of the current capitalist class which seeks to more broadly disown the revolution. As such, the author has an agenda but is still worth looking at critically.

    He discusses some of the deaths per year figures that are bandied about…very interesting analysis that makes plain that Yang’s narrative is utterly impossible…

    What is clear of course is what you point out also…that in the decade of the 1950s, from the beginning of communist China in 1949 to 1960, the rate of people dying REDUCED by an almost incredible amount…such was the power of Mao’s socialist transformation in that first decade…

    However, buoyed by this success, the authorities may have become too optimistic and tried to do too much by the end of the decade of the 1950s…this, combined with the drought conditions, plus the anomalous rainfall patterns caused by an anomaly in the track of monsoons [from the typical northerly track to northwest] resulted in a big shortfall of food production…that much is true…

    But Mao and the CPC immediately recognized that the rural reforms were too ambitious and too quick, and were not working out, and they rolled back the program…this is in stark contrast to the narrative that the CPC either deliberately or out of incompetence caused the food shortages and actually killed people on purpose…

    Killing people on purpose is only what happens in fascist societies like Nazi Germany, of course…but these very sick societies are glorified on this website…

    Professor Dongping Han has a terrific essay on the Great Leap Forward, here…

    Food production did drop in those drought years, and more sick and elderly people did die…but not of starvation…Prof Han lived through that era and also went back and researched first-hand accounts in other regions…he could not find any peasants that had memories of people dying from starvation…times were hard to be sure, but people were not dying of starvation…

    Also note that on that critical review on the Yang book linked to above, there are five comments to that review that are also helpful…

    • Thanks: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Erebus
  320. @Ron Unz

    What’s your analysis of the protests/riots engulfing the country?

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  321. Erebus says:
    @FB

    … an anomaly in the track of monsoons [from the typical northerly track to northwest] resulted in a big shortfall of food production…that much is true…

    At the same time, the US cut China off from grain supplies and encouraged their allies to do the same. Only Canada, at the time not yet America’s Scotland, sold grain in sufficient quantity to help keep the famines at bay. Today, after several consecutive lickspittle PMs, Canada’s independence (and dignity) is in the ditch, wheels up.

    …times were hard to be sure, but people were not dying of starvation…

    I know several people who lived through GLF as children and adolescents. Those in the north, which is where my info comes from, had it tough. People were hungry, even malnourished, and but there was nothing like a widespread famine. The excess deaths of the period, however substantial, were the knock-on effects of consecutive crop failures and embargoes.

    • Thanks: FB
  322. Ron Unz says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Clearly, Yang Jisheng has proven that I am an extreme pro-Mao/pro-China propagandist and not a very effective one.

    I have not read Yang’s book and what little I know a little about him discourages me…Despite the absence of contemporary evidence, my article* allows for millions of Great Leap famine deaths:

    Look, when I read your Great Leap Forward article a year or two ago, I didn’t find it at all persuasive, but a couple of the commenters did provide article references that raised some serious questions in my mind. But the exhaustive Yang book has now settled those entirely, including the issues you and others raise about droughts or grain imports.

    Perhaps Yang is just a total fraud and all his hundreds of pages of detailed data from PRC government records and his numerous quotes and analyses from senior PRC academics is just entirely fabricated. But if not, he provides massive evidence, while you simply provide hand-waving.

    You may or may not be familiar with the “QAnon” crackpots in the US. They’re the fanatical pro-Trump types who believe that Trump is the greatest political genius of our era and all his apparent mistakes and failures are all part of his brilliant secret strategy. He’s about to have all his Democratic and Deep State enemies arrested for treason. I think that you and some of your tiny handful of diehard Maoist Communists fall into the same QAnon category.

    As you may recall, just a few weeks ago you quoted Victor Davis Hanson, a leading anti-China Neocon at the Hoover Institution, writing in National Review who claimed—on the basis of ZERO evidence—that most Californians had already been infected with Covid-19:

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-hunt-for-patient-zero/?showcomments#comment-3831499

    Eagerly accepting such totally ridiculous claims from an ignorant and disreputable source—without even realizing who you were quoting—hardly enhances the credibility of the material you provide on other issues. By contrast, I found Yang’s 600pp volume extremely credible and detailed, and he cites and evaluates numerous conflicting sources on many of the key issues.

    The fact that you wrote an entire article on the GLF without even bothering to read his seemingly-definitive treatment of the subject is rather telling. As I said, he includes a 40 page chapter on the numerous conflicting estimates of the total deaths by various demographers based upon different methods, and although some are considerably lower, most converge around 35M.

    I don’t know Chinese myself, so I’m obviously a captive of my sources, but Yang and the experts he cites seem like high-ranking PRC journalists and academics, so are probably knowledgeable and credible.

    Quite a few Chinese people are regular commenters here, and I think that one or two of them have sometimes raised the question of whether you even know Chinese. If your Chinese language skills are actually weak or non-existent, that would certainly undercut your ability to properly evaluate the evidence for your various articles on extremely controversial Chinese topics.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  323. Ron Unz says:
    @JohnnyWalker123

    What’s your analysis of the protests/riots engulfing the country?

    Well, pretty close to the numerous Steve Sailer/John Derbyshire/Anatoly Karlin/Jared Taylor pieces we’ve published on the subject.

    But some commenter raised a very important point that had also been in my mind, but ignored by almost everyone.

    Just before all the riots and looting erupted, the Trump people and their allies such as Tucker Carlson were orchestrating a new global conflict, diverting blame to China for our Covid-19 disaster, even though it was quite likely an American biowarfare attack against China (and Iran). But that now seems to have been totally derailed by the BLM lunacy.

    George Floyd was a violent criminal who seems to have probably died of a drug-overdose. But if his heroic self-sacrifice averted a global conflict with China, we all owe him a deep debt of gratitude…

    • Replies: @FB
  324. FB says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    George Floyd was a violent criminal who seems to have probably died of a drug-overdose.

    Wow…that’s a pretty extreme view…

    I’m glad I don’t know anyone who would agree with that…in fact many people I know feel victimized by having had to see this snuff film…and feeling deeply unsettled and even physically distressed at having had to witness such an awful thing…

    But I guess Ron Unz has a much sturdier constitution…watching a helpless and shackled citizen getting snuffed out on the street is all part and parcel of ‘democracy’ I guess…

    It’s only when people in communist China ‘starve’ that he is shaken to his core…

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  325. Ron Unz says:
    @FB

    George Floyd was a violent criminal who seems to have probably died of a drug-overdose.

    Wow…that’s a pretty extreme view…

    I’m glad I don’t know anyone who would agree with that…

    Well, I was pretty surprised as well since it was never mentioned in my morning NYT+WSJ. But I read this post by Anatoly Karlin:

    https://www.unz.com/akarlin/putlers-complicity-in-george-floyds-death/

    Supposedly, Floyd’s blood had 11 ng/ml of Fentanyl, which seems to be a lethal dose. Plus he also had high levels of Meth and tested positive for Covid-19. All of that combined with the stress of his encounter with the police probably just gave him a heart-attack.

    I’ll admit I haven’t bothered checking any of that, so anyone more interested should do so. Or maybe the NYT+WSJ are such utterly reliable sources that if they didn’t mention it, it couldn’t be true.

  326. Anonymous[189] • Disclaimer says:

    I’ll admit I haven’t bothered checking any of that, so anyone more interested should do so. Or maybe the NYT+WSJ are such utterly reliable sources that if they didn’t mention it, it couldn’t be true.

    Frankly, at this stage, all sources are horrendously unreliable. Previous strategies for arriving at conclusions through applying reductive logic to a handful of trusted facts are no longer viable. Instead, analogously to how DARPA developed a reliable communications network over unreliable and inhomogeneous physical links, we need a similarly fault tolerant way of reasoning, to allow us to reach reliable and sane conclusions even when the input data is of dubious quality.

    I think this is something that UR has been subliminally catalysing, and I’ve come to notice that UR debates are often divided along the lines of who can apply this ‘fault-tolerant’ reasoning and who sticks to the old methods.

    Ron, on another note, how do you feel about Anatoly Karlin banning all anonymous posters and lost of named posters with whom he disagrees? In your eyes, is this ok or not? Sorry for OT. I’m not sure where is the correct place to ask this question.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @Anatoly Karlin
  327. Ron Unz says:
    @Anonymous

    Ron, on another note, how do you feel about Anatoly Karlin banning all anonymous posters and lost of named posters with whom he disagrees? In your eyes, is this ok or not?

    Sure, the individual bloggers can do what they want in that regard.

    Actually, I’ve noticed that a smaller and smaller share of substantive remarks seem to be coming from anonymous commenters. So I’ve been thinking of nudging the remaining ones to start using Handles, perhaps by further limiting the rate of anonymous comments.

    I really can’t see why commenters avoid Handles, and I think adopting one greatly facilitates meaningful exchanges.

    • Agree: Ghan-buri-Ghan
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  328. @FB

    This damn thing is a Hydra. No matter how many heads you cut off, you can’t kill it.

    Short of wasting 2-3 years writing a book on the subject, I’ve tried every angle, including unearthing the CIA’s own field reports from China during the famine years and publishing them in these pages.* To no avail.

    I chose this forum to publish my findings because I felt that they would be questioned more closely and

    Clearly, there’s something non-rational going on and its flaring up just as we, the accusers, are about to lose world dominance (you can hardly call it ‘leadership’!) and confront our own failings for the first time in our history.

    * https://www.unz.com/article/mao-reconsidered-part-two-whose-famine/

    • Agree: FB
    • Replies: @Erebus
  329. @Ron Unz

    Have Mao and his party kept their oath or broken it?

    Have they endured the people’s hardships first and enjoyed their benefits last? Or have they been the callous, self-interested megalomaniacs that Mao is accused of being and concealed their gross failures?

    If the answer is ‘no’ you can continue publishing unpopular opinions and I can devote more time beer drinking and less to thinking about China–and nothing of importance changes.

    But what if the answer is ‘yes’? What if they have told the truth, hidden nothing, and sought unselfishly to improve others’ lives? What if they have kept their oath?

    Even to acknowledge that possibility would require of us an intellectual and emotional conversion–and not a moment too soon, for a Mao protege may assume world leadership before the New Year.

    If we compare the condition of poor people in China today to their lot in 1949, the evidence suggests that Mao and his successors have kept their pledge. Plain old.

    If we compare the condition of poor people in America today to their lot in 1949, the evidence suggests that our Founders and their successors have lied us into penury. Flat out. We now have more drug addicts, suicides, executions, homeless, poor women, hungry children, and imprisoned people than China, though China’s per capita GDP is below Mexico’s.

    World governments are publicly discussing abandoning our leadership because, as President Macron said recently, “China’s vision for the future is so much more attractive.” That vision is Mao’s.

    But I digress.

    If the events described in Tombstone and Mao’s Great Famine were real, they would not only constitute the first invisible major famine in modern history but be so bizarrely out of character with Mao’s well-documented life that we–and the hundreds of people who knew him well–would conclude that he had suffered a psychotic episode for he was, statistically, the most compassionate man in history.

    I have not read Yang Jisheng but, since he collaborated closely with Frank Dikotter and used the same techniques, I will let Patrick McNally’s review of Tombstone speak for me:

    [MORE]

    This is a topic which has frequently attracted misuse of statistics so I was prepared for that when I ordered this book. If the author were a US writer then the book would not be worth looking at. This author is Chinese and represents that sector of the current capitalist class which seeks to more broadly disown the revolution. As such, the author has an agenda but is still worth looking at critically.

    OK, so what happened and what does this book attempt to do? The general outline is rather clear, despite gaps in the data. The first major gap which we’re faced with is that no system of regular population counts, with a registry of births and deaths, had really existed in pre-revolutionary China. All of the existing reports from the earlier era support something like what John Finley summarized in the Foreword to the 1926 publication of the American Geographical Society by Walter Mallory, China: Land of Famine, “It is a shocking fact that with all of the labor expended and virtues practiced, nearly a fourth of the people of the globe live in a land of famine–not of general famine at any one time nor of continuous famine in any one place, but of famine in one or another province or locality all the time.”

    That is not a substitute for real hard statistics, but it gives an idea of what China in peaceful years was like. One can also gain some useful information by looking at the known statistics for the provinces of Czarist Russia that remained in the USSR after 1917, as given in Frank Lorimer, The Population of the Soviet Union:
    Year_____Deaths per thousand among the population
    1899_____33.4
    1900_____32.3
    1901_____33.6
    1902_____33.1
    1903_____31.1
    1904_____31.1
    1905_____33.2
    1906_____31.6
    1907_____30.2
    1908_____30.2
    1909_____31.6
    1910_____33.3
    1911_____29.2
    1912_____28.7
    1913_____30.9

    You can find some books which give the number 30.2 for 1913 instead of Lorimer’s 30.9. That has to do with the 11 other provinces of Czarist Russia which broke away from the USSR after 1917. Mortality was actually higher in the main Russian part of the Czarist Empire than in Finland, Poland or the Baltic. For another comparison, some select years of the United States can be placed alongside this:
    Year_____Deaths per thousand among the population
    1913_____13.8
    1915_____13.2
    1940_____10.8
    1950_____9.6
    1951_____9.7
    1952_____9.6
    1953_____9.6
    1954_____9.2
    1955_____9.3
    1956_____9.4
    1957_____9.6

    These offer some useful guides on what is realistic to think of as likely death rates in China. It is beyond question that any serious guess of mortality rates under the most peaceful conditions in pre-revolutionary China would have to be notably higher than all of the rates listed for Czarist Russia. It also makes sense to assume that mortality rates in China for the first decade after the revolution of 1949 would have been notably higher than the death rates listed above for the United States. Unfortunately, the very flawed statistics published by the Statistical Yearbook of China 1986 are obviously way off and do not meet these criteria:
    Year_____Deaths per thousand among the population
    1949_____20.00
    1950_____18.00
    1951_____17.80
    1952_____17.00
    1953_____14.00
    1954_____13.18
    1955_____12.28
    1856_____11.40
    1957_____10.80
    1958_____11.98
    1959_____14.59
    1960_____25.43
    1961_____14.24
    1962_____10.02
    1963_____10.04

    These are comical underestimates. There is no way that Chinese mortality could have been as low as 20/1000 in 1949 or 10.8/1000 in 1957. At the same time the official Chinese data is instructive on general patterns. What this table asserts is that mortality for China in 1958, 1959 and 1961 (11.98, 14.59. 14.24) was well below anything that had ever existed in pre-revolutionary China. 1960 was a year of famine which these numbers imply caused about 3.36 million deaths over and above the rate of 1949 (25.43 – 20 = 5.43, multiplied by the approximate size of the population). At the same time, if one were to compute from the official data the numbers who died in 1958-61 above the 1957 death rate of 10.8, then the result would be 15.1 million. That says something about the general pattern, but the numbers are obviously all wrong. Judith Banister constructed a different table, in response to official statistics, and Banister’s numbers are a bit more realistic:
    Year_____Deaths per thousand among the population
    1949_____38
    1950_____35
    1951_____32
    1952_____29
    1953_____25.77
    1954_____24.20
    1955_____22.33
    1956_____20.11
    1957_____18.12
    1958_____20.65
    1959_____22.06
    1960_____44.60
    1961_____23.01
    1962_____14.02
    1963_____13.81

    Banister’s numbers are more realistic, while conforming to the same general pattern as the official statistics. Banister’s assigned numbers for the years 1958, 1959, and 1961 (20.65, 22.06, 23.01) are all visibly lower than all of the death rates recorded for Czarist Russia, and far lower than anything which had ever occurred in pre-revolutionary China. Banister’s numners imply that about 4.35 million deaths occurred in 1960 above the death rate of 1949 (44.6 – 38 = 6.6, multiplied by the approximate size of the population). At the same time they indicate about 25.4 million dying in 1958-61 above the rate of 18.12 which Banister assigns to 1957.

    Banister’s numbers may suffer from inaccuracies with inflated birth rates in several years. For 1957-63, Banister assigns fertility rates per thousand of 43.25, 37.76, 28.53, 26.76, 22.43, 41.02, and 49.79. These numbers imply that fertility surpassed mortality by a large margin in all years but 1960-1, and only in 1960 did mortality exceed fertility by a wide margin. That is not very likely. Even such an author as Jasper Becker, who is also part of the same bandwagon in support of capitalist restoration, maintains, “Very few women were able to have children during the famine. A large proportion stopped menstruating because of the lack of protein in their diet. Some students sent down to the countrtside said that they stopped menstruating for as long as five years.” — Hungry Ghosts, p. 210.

    The numbers given for fertility by both Banister and the official yearbook do not reflect such tendencies of loss in fertility. That may probably mean that Banister has overestimated the death rate in 1960. But regardless, the general pattern given is clear and makes sense. China experienced a dramatic unprecedented drop in mortality rates during the years following the revolution. Revolutionary leaders became overambitious and attempted a Great Leap Forward, which proved to be a failure in 1958-9. That resulted in some increase in mortality in those years, without actually reaching what had been the normal annual death rates in pre-revolutionary China, or even Czarist Russia. By the year 1960 the main effort of the Great Leap Forward had been called off, but this also proved to be a year of severe weather catastrophe.

    Even Roderick MacFarquhar has documented this fact, “Not surprisingly in view of the drought, most of the flooding had been due to the typhoons, more of which had hit the Chinese mainland than in any of the previous 50 years, 11 between June and October; and each typhoon had lasted longer than usual, averaging ten hours, the longest stretching to 20. Moreover, nature had played an additional trick. The typhoon did not strike north-westwards as usual, but northwards. This added to their impact because it meant that there were no high mountains to ward them off, and that less rain reached the rest of the country. In the aftermath of the drought and floods came insect pests and plant diseases.”–

    The Great Leap Forward 1958-1960, Volume 2 of The Origins of the Cultural Revolution

    , p. 322.

    Against the background of these natural disasters, further compounded by the lack of comprehension within the Party apparatus, which led to even more errors, the mortality rate in China in 1960 rose to a level that was fairly common in many previous famines which used to occur quite regularly in pre-revolutionary China, perhaps approaching 44.6 per thousand for the country as a whole. That brought an end to the age when China was regarded as “the land of famine” and by 1963 China’s mortality rate had fallen as low as 13.81 per thousand and continued to fall thereafter steadily during the years before Deng Xiao-ping began the capitalist counter-revolution. That’s what the real data shows.

    Not surprisingly, many proponents of capitalist restoration in China have sought to promote the most wildly inflated estimates of famine deaths in these years in an effort to justify counter-revolution. The more honest books will simply quote plausible numbers for the years 1957-63, but without telling the reader anything about what real mortality patterns in China historically looked like. But there is another even more dishonest approach favored among some proponents of capitalism which actually requires deliberately faking statistics by citing numbers from the official statistics where it is politically convenient, yet citing higher numbers from other sources for other years.

    It is analogous to someone finding two census agencies which regularly offer an annual estimate of the black population in the USA, but which use a different criterion so that there is always a disparity of one million in the numbers for each year. Now suppose that someone looked up such numbers from such sources and quoted them for two consecutive years in a way which implied that white racists had murdered one million black people.

    That is the type of hoax which Yang Jisheng tries playing in this book. It’s easy to cite specific illustrations of this from the text. On p. 394 he says:
    “The mortality rate in Sichuan from 1958 to 1962 was 1.517 percent, 4.69 percent, 5.39 percent, 2.942 percent, and 1.482 percent.”

    Comparing these numbers with the numbers given by both Judith Banister and the Statistical Yearbook, it’s clear that the number “1.517 percent” which he gives for 1958 is meant to read as a little bit higher than the number “11.98 per thousand” which the Statistical Yearbook gives. Yet this number is significantly lower than the number “18.12 per thousand” which Banister gives for 1957, and the gap is even larger when compared with the “20.65 per thousand” which Banister assigns to 1958 itself.

    This isn’t just a fluke. On pp. 408-9 the author lists alleged death rates which clearly come from the Statistical Yearbook and he uses to compute what he declares to be a “normal mortality rate” of 1.047 percent. This is obviously a very steep underestimate of what real mortality rates in China up to 1957 had been like. Banister’s guess of 18.12 per thousand may even be too low, as it assumes a dramatic heretofore unprecedented drop in Chinese mortality over the years 1949-57. If Chinese mortality in 1957 had only been as low as 25 per thousand then that would still represent a dramatic gain over the performances of Czarist Russia and pre-1949 China, while still being larger than each of the mortality rates which Banister assigns to 1958, 1959 and 1961.

    Obviously the reason Yang Jisheng uses the number of 1.047 percent as an estimate drawn from the Statistical Yearbook is because when such a steep underestimate of real mortality in China is cited, then followed by more realistic estimates for the later years, it allows one to dramatically raise the numbers of deaths occurring over an alleged “normal mortality rate.” This is a very dishonest cut-and-paste method of generating false statistical results. Because of this all of the more special assertions made in this book which do not already have a general corroboration need to be treated with high skepticism. This book was put together with an agenda, and that shows.

    Although this book can not and will not stand with sustained authority over the long haul, it may still be worth examining with a very critical eye. Probably the most notable thing about this book was that the author does confirm that an incredible decline in annual mortality was indeed brought about by the Chinese Revolution. He obviously doesn’t mean to state it that way. But it would be unnecessary for him to assert that mortality in Sichuan was as low in 1958 as 1.517 percent if that were not the case. I can actually believe that death rates in Sichuan in 1958 may have really been higher than the national rate of 20.65 which Banister assigns to the year 1958. But again, even that number is far lower than the normal death rates of Czarist Russia and pre-1949 China.

    There is undoubtedly a need for some methodical critique of the whole era which takes everything into account. Although the weather of 1960 definitely did play an important role in raising the death rate for 1960 above those of 1958-9, and although one does need to appreciate the real progress that was accomplished in the first decade after 1949 in order to see how the Chinese government became overambitious, but it was still acknowledged even within the Party that the whole thing had been badly handled. That much is undoubtedly true even when the distortions of capitalist restorationist propaganda are taken into account. But this book is just another distorting piece of propaganda.
    Although I don’t find any source to be altogether satisfactory, the 3-volume work by Roderick MacFarquhar, The Origins of the Cultural Revolution, is probably a useful place to start. The second volume is focused on the period of the Great Leap Forward. He does acknowledge the role of natural disaster in the famine.

    But more important than that is simply getting some clarity on what the real populations statistics are like. The basic story of the GLF is clear enough. China had made huge progress in the years 1949-57. The leadership became dizzy with success and launched off on a project which fumbled badly in 1958-9. In 1960 there was serious natural disaster and that compounded problems which had already begun in 1958-9.

    But the big central issue here is over what were the true population statistics like and do these data actually support claims that tens of millions died who would otherwise have lived if the revolution had not occurred? As I’ve said above, this book (like quite a few others) deliberately uses false statistics which underestimate real mortality rates in 1957, it avoids honestly addressing the issue of what real mortality rates had been like in pre-revolutionary China, and then it combines those underestimations of the 1957 mortality rate with estimates for later years which are deliberately taken from other sources. What one needs is not so much a history of this period but just a more honest accounting of the known population data.

    For that, Judith Banister’s China’s Changing Population is the right first stop. That should then be compared with either the Statistical Yearbook of China 1986 or else with the book by Peng Xizhe & Guo Zhigang, The Changing Population of China, which reproduces the data from the above Statistical Yearbook. It then becomes clear that the numbers given in the Statistical Yearbook and reproduced in Xizhe & Zhigang involve a uniform underestimation of Chinese mortality for the two decades or so after 1949. The author Yang has deliberately used these lower numbers, such as the claim that mortality in 1957 was 10.8 per thousand, where it has suited his purpose. But then he uses other numbers that are in line with Banister’s statistical construct when it suits him, even though Banister assigns a mortality rate of 18.12 per thousand to the year 1957.

  330. @Anonymous

    Ron, on another note, how do you feel about Anatoly Karlin banning all anonymous posters and lost of named posters with whom he disagrees?

    I ban anons for the reasons Ron mentioned. Good filter for quality and basic decency, which is especially useful in my case as I am one of the few bloggers/columnists with no pre-moderation:

    Yeah, I’m not interested in hosting comments from people who want to hack me to death with machetes. Sorry about that (not).

    I don’t delete or ban people who don’t personally attack me/issue legal threats/dox me or other people/spam incessantly.

  331. Erebus says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    Clearly, there’s something non-rational going on…

    Watching developments from a distance, it looks like an outbreak of the socio-political equivalent of Ergotism.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  332. @Erebus

    There are not many historical events that, in hindsight, qualify as big deals.

    But this does.

    A Communist, Asian country is assuming leadership of the world and we are losing it.

    The reaction reminds me of a woman’s spontaneous reaction to 9/11, “I thought, I really believed, that Jesus was protecting America. Now I don’t know what to think.”

    • Replies: @Erebus
    , @Patagonia Man
  333. Erebus says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    … and we are losing it.

    Who’s this “we” you keep talking about? It surely doesn’t include me.

    • Replies: @Godfree Roberts
  334. @Erebus

    Yes, you, white man.

    • Replies: @Erebus
  335. Anonymous[189] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    I really can’t see why commenters avoid Handles, and I think adopting one greatly facilitates meaningful exchanges.

    It’s something like a statute of limitations.

    Speaking personally, I feel safer having a simple mechanism to disown previous comments. If I am deanonymized and my current comments are found to be illegal/immoral, I can only be punished for comments in the current chain (linked by fictitious email). Every time I change my email/IP/web browser, my chain is once again broken and I can sleep soundly knowing that the thought police won’t be after me the next day.

    Theoretically, I could achieve the same result by periodically changing aliases but it’s more cumbersome and it is already discouraged by yourself. It also feels disingenuous, as I’m pretending to have a permanent handle but in reality it’s ephemeral. Simply calling myself Anonymous is more clear and honest.

    Anonymous comments may indeed be lower quality on average, but they occasionally contain real diamonds. When someone with inside info has finally had enough and can’t hold back any more, we can get some really amazing contributions. I’ve seen a couple like this that really opened my eyes, and I feel you are doing a real service by keeping the barrier to entry as low as possible. Having the anonymous option makes people FEEL safer, which results in fuller disclosure. By all means, moderate anonymous comments before they’re published, but don’t exclude them completely.

    On a related note, why doesn’t unz.com use https? It has substantial privacy advantages and low performance overheads on modern CPUs.

  336. FB says: • Website

    A Communist, Asian country is assuming leadership of the world and we are losing it.

    If by ‘leadership’ you mean imperialism, colonialism and increasingly fascism then yes, ‘we’ are losing it…and a lot of people will be gladly saying good riddance to all of that…

    A fifty thousand foot view of the postwar era might be useful…fascism and its ugly ideology of racism and state violence against ordinary people was defeated, thanks mainly to the Soviet Union, which broke the back of the Axis powers and marched into Berlin…

    However, seventy years later, it looks like fascism has won by coming in through the back door…

    As long as the Communist Russia existed as a counterweight, the US had to keep its fascist tendencies in check, both in domestic policy, by way of giving the people a somewhat decent and fair share of the pie…and in foreign policy, where foreign adventurism was met with stiff resistance, and ultimately defeat in Korea and Vietnam, and hence kept in check…

    But socialist Russia, which had made huge leaps forward in every measurable way…industry, education, science, living standards…in the space of a few short decades [matched only by the rapid development of China in the present era], began to ossify…objectively, things started going downhill with Kruschov…

    Eventually, the situation became so strained that it gave way altogether and the Soviet Union, which was a bigger country population-wise than the US, simply disintegrated…

    With the counterweight of the Soviet Union removed, the US quickly went into full fascist and imperialist mode…the project of destroying Yugoslavia went into action even as the Soviet Union was still teetering in 1990…we recall from history that the imperialist Churchill had viewed Yugoslavia as a key piece that should fall into the western sphere of influence, and had pushed for an allied invasion through the Balkans instead of Normandy…

    It was clear that fascism had triumphed in the Balkans, as the US openly demonized its own wartime ally Serbia, while throwing support to the wartime fascist state of Croatia which had gone down to defeat along with their Nazi sponsors…

    It was clear that the postwar order was over…likewise, the removal of the Soviet counterbalance allowed the US to ramp up its domestic fascism…

    We note that in the 1990s important economic and social policy U-turns occurred…the removal of any reins on predatory banking [repeal of Glass-Steagall]…the reversal of decades of proactive civil rights initiatives like Affirmative Action…so-called welfare ‘reform’…all of these initiatives were rolling the clock back to the pre civil rights era and resulted in the zooming climb of inequality that we have seen since then…

    The white and middle class sector of society was hit just as hard…the offshoring of labor to low wage countries, especially China, but also India and others…combined with the massive importation of immigrants from developing countries proved to be a one-two knockout punch of labor arbitrage that made it impossible for American workers to even think about a decent life in an industrial society, such as was the case in the first few postwar decades…the American Dream was toast a decade or two after the fall of the USSR…[as Noam Chomsky nicely documents]

    Thirty million LEGAL immigrants have been imported to the US in the last five decades to destroy the earning power of American workers…plus many more illegal immigrants, and of course the children of all those immigrants have transformed the complexion of the country…

    The Global view is similarly a trajectory of the rise of fascism, the imperialist-colonialist kind…the Bretton Woods institutions turned out to be very different from FDR’s vision for a ‘New Deal’ for the world, just as the New Deal had lifted the US out of backwardness and poverty…

    [MORE]

    Instead, the global financial architecture came to fulfill Churchill’s vision of a grand imperialism with the US and Britain at the privileged center of a vast network of global commerce, all controlled by the levers of banking and finance in New York and London…

    African and Asian countries shedding their colonial subjugation politically and gaining some kind of ersatz ‘independence’ remained locked into a global finance system where they needed to borrow money, and then pay for that with their natural resources…it is an ingenious system that makes use of corrupt local elites that sell their own people down the drain of economic exploitation, just as previous generations sold their own people into bondage and slavery…

    Again, fascism has triumphed beyond even the wildest dreams of Hitler…and imperialism has likewise flourished beyond the wildest dreams of Churchill…neither FDR nor Stalin had this vision for the world…quite the opposite in fact…and the people of the US also never signed up for being serfs and peons in a Banskta Paradise…born into a life of indentured servitude, and going out while still in debt…

    It should be noted in fact that Hitler’s fondest dream was to bring Churchill on side…he greatly admired Britain’s imperialism and simply wanted to share in that bounty…but it would be the US that would be at the center of this new Evil Empire, with a post-Hitler Germany still getting a fairly
    good deal…[and itself importing millions of cheap workers from Turkey to achieve its industrial prosperity in a fascist global order]…

    So it is not surprising that those who see the true exploitative nature of this system are not shedding any tears over its demise…

    And that demise is the only possible and natural outcome for fascism, which is an ideology that is in direct opposition to the natural order of the physical world…the proof of that is that the system is falling apart, even though it has been unshackled and free to do what it pleases ever since the collapse of the Soviet Union…

    And of course many shortcoming can be seen in the ‘mechanics’ of how it operates…exploitation and oppression will naturally have a reaction, as in the physical world…the economic underpinnings of usury are an illusion…there can be no such thing as perpetual growth…etc…a technical examination of this fraudulent and unworkable architecture would be a fascinating study of just how plainly and visibly bankrupt the basic tenets of fascistic capitalism really are…

    At its core, human progress has always been about banding together for strength…we see this in the animal world as well…the lion pride is strong because they work together…same for the great herds of herbivores…birds like penguins and many others that survive and thrive in great colonies…great families of orcas, possibly the most intelligent creatures on earth [it is now in doubt that man would be in contention for this contest]…dolphins…of course other fish that survive in great schools…insects like bees and ants…nature is full of guidance about how cooperation is the path to survival…

    Ideologies like ‘individualism’ are bankrupt and facile constructs that have no foundation in the natural world…in fact even the tiny slice of our population that is our ruling master class does not buy into this, otherwise they would not socialize the losses of their gangster enterprise, while privatizing the profits…this ideology is simply a bedtime story for the dumb sheeple…

    China some decades ago opened up to limited private ownership of business and that turned out to be a successful adjustment…[one has to wonder what the results would have been if the Soviet leadership had made these kinds of pragmatic adjustments]…

    Today, the country is entering into a new era of technologically driven progress and education and scientific capability is the key…private business does absolutely zero for either of those…again, what would China’s education and scientific capability look like now if it had abandoned socialism and jumped into capitalism with both feet…?

    It would look like the US, which now has a higher ‘education’ system that is designed only to provide profits to the usury industry…

    China has nearly ten times as many STEM graduates as the US, with only four times the population…even Iran, with just one fourth the US population has nearly as many STEM graduates…

    In engineering graduates, the US does even worse…

    So it is with that historical context that we now come to our present moment in time…socialist China, unlike the Soviet Union, did not abandon the core goals of the revolution, which are of course continuous progress and advancement…this requires ongoing evaluation and trial and error, at which the Chinese have become masters, fine-tuning the system by continuous evaluation and making the necessary adjustments…

    Human civilization is not static…our technical means are continuously evolving and these bring big changes…for instance we are now leaving the era of scarcity and entering into a technologically-enabled era of abundance…capitalism and its model of exploiting human work and consumption has no way to deal with a technologically advanced society that can produce all the needs of the people in great abundance almost effortlessly…

    Capitalism’s response is to this economic shift is to enforce artificial scarcity…we see this for instance in subsidies to giant agricultural producers who are paid to keep their fields fallow and NOT plant crops…this of course drives up food prices for the most impoverished populations in the world…the ones who can least afford it…

    There are many more examples and case studies of artificial scarcity created and perpetuated by fascistic capitalism…in every industry and area of commerce…

    But the even bigger global scam is that of so-called trade…it is really a system of ironclad imperialism of the kind which Britain practiced for many decades…the US prosperity no longer comes from making things for domestic consumption by the people…instead, almost everything the people consume is made abroad and the US simply gets this stuff on the basis of promissory notes of paper…

    The system works precisely because of US military activities around the globe…the goods that the US imports are ‘paid for’ by the military expenditures abroad, since those expenditures can only be recycled back into the US economy by means of trade…Micheal Hudson explains this in his seminal book Super Imperialism…

    The key to this scheme is that there must be a stronger or dominant party, and a weaker, or subservient one…it is understood that if this strength dynamic is disturbed or displaced, then the system can no longer function…

    That is the inflection point we are approaching at this time…China, especially partnering with a resurgent Russia, is becoming too powerful for this equilibrium to hold…what’s more, China is in fact building up its own network of global commerce, with itself at the center…and which is peeling off the satellites in the US orbit…

    This is the real threat to the imperialist US system…of course it remains to be seen if the China-centric network will be an exploitative one as the US has developed in the postwar period, or whether it will be a win-win proposition for those that participate…at the very least, the demise of the US empire will be a great benefit to many countries that are being exploited right now…

    The progress of technology is another issue that plays into this dynamic, but is not well understood by most…we have seen a pattern of very significant shifts that have occurred with technical progress, and interspersed with much longer eras where that technology is refined and the social organization is adjusted to adapt to these changes…

    This is a topic for further discussion, but in a nutshell the world has only seen several eras of truly transformational technological revolution…the first was the domestication of the horse and the invention of the wheeled vehicle drawn by those domesticated horses…which happened about five thousand years ago on the Russian steppe…

    Arguably, the entire five thousand year span right up until the twentieth century could be considered the era of the horse…it was then that the internal combustion engine came into being, as well as the electrification of our lives…two powerful transformations on the same level as that of the horse and wheel…

    I will not go into the details of this as there is a huge amount of discussion there, but the main point is that we spent five thousand years adapting to the technology of mobility…this mobility is what made possible large-scale conquests that the pre-horse era did not support…agriculture and trade also took off…that same trade then led to ship-building and eventually global trade and commerce…and of course imperialism…

    The twentieth century brought the real transformation from that pre-automobile and pre-electricity era…in fact it should be noted that right up until the middle of the last century the two most powerful nations, the US and Russia were not even very electrified until FDR and Stalin respectively built that out…

    We now are advancing with the electric power that has brought with it the new tool of computing…the age of thermodynamics that brought the engine has likewise brought us the jet and the rocket…

    We are right now very far from digesting these transformative advances and fully leveraging their power…it is now a game of refinement and being able to organize ourselves socially so that we may leverage the power of these forces…we are in fine-tuning mode as we were for five thousand years after the horse and wheel…and much political and social transformation will follow, just as the British Empire eventually rose from that first horse and cart…

    Just as in the past, social organization to harness this new power will be the key…that is where fascism and capitalism is at a dead end…we are no longer able to advance by profiting at the expense of others, it’s as simple as that…any idea that moves the civilizational bar forward will of necessity be one that is built upon the new normal of abundance for everyone…an honest deal and a fair shake…

    Just as FDR delivered to the American everyman, as Stalin lifted Russian peasant-slaves into a decent life…and as these visionaries foresaw a world of improving civilization based on cooperation, not Darwinian struggle of one against all…

    • Agree: Jazman
    • Thanks: Erebus
    • Replies: @Jazman
    , @Patagonia Man
  337. Jazman says:
    @FB

    Impressive writing

    • Agree: Patagonia Man
    • Thanks: FB
  338. @FB

    Incredible post, many thanks!

  339. @Godfree Roberts

    For the first time since George III (1760-1820) was on the throne of Great Britain,

    “a Communist, Asian, [non-English speaking] country is assuming leadership of the world …”

    In his ever non-assuming manner, see former Prime Minister of Australia, Mandarin speaker & longtime student of China, with his unique vantage point, Kevin Rudd making the same point and the implications that it has for all of us: Are China and the US doomed to conflict? | Kevin Rudd https://youtu.be/8XQ1onjXJK0

    In other words, all that’s really happening is the world is returning to its natural politico-economic center of influence, because of:
    1. the sheer size of her population; and
    2. her location to The Heartland, aka the World Island, see Mackinder who regards political history as a continuous struggle between land (a tellurocracy) and sea powers (thalassocracies) with the ultimate victory going to the continental power, a conclusion also supported by Kjellen.

  340. Agreed. Though China aims for leadership through just hierarchy, as Daniel Bell puts it, not hegemony.

    I found this image of the Heartland compelling:

    • Thanks: Godfree Roberts
    • Replies: @Erebus
  341. Erebus says:
    @Godfree Roberts

    That’s Mackinder’s World Island. Russia (more or less) is the Heartland.

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