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Australia, Sweden (!), Sen. Hawley Combat China—But Is Another Tiananmen Square Coming?
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[Excerpted from the latest Radio Derb, now available exclusively through VDARE.com]

On my occasional theme of educational nationalism, I’m pleased to see that Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas has suggested banning Chinese students from studying STEM subjects in our universities. He told Fox News::

If Chinese students want to come here and study Shakespeare and the Federalist Papers, that’s what they need to learn from America. They don’t need to learn quantum computing and artificial intelligence from America.

Fox News Transcript, April 26, 2020

The Senator is right, but late. We’ve educated so many Chinese students the past thirty years that Chinese colleges are now well-staffed with US-educated professors. There’s hardly any need for them to send students here anymore.

(I did smile to read, though, that one unnamed left-wing commentator had mocked Senator Cotton by pointing out that Shakespeare was not an American. I’d really like to know who that commentator was so I can present him with my Non Sequitur of the Week Award).

Two countries (which by a remarkable coincidence seem to have done well in the fight against the WuFlu plague) seem also to be combatting China:

  • Australia.

Three weeks ago I warned the folk Down Under that they are in danger of becoming a Chinese colony. Their economy, I observed, is heavily dependent on digging minerals out of the ground and selling them to China. They sell a lot of agricultural produce to China, too.

And then there is education: Australia gets seven and a half billion dollars a year from Chinese students paying full tuition at Australian universities.

(That was the number I got from a global statistics website. A news story at Breitbart.com this past Monday gives thirty billion.[China Warns Australia: Drop Coronavirus Probe or Pay an Economic Price, by Simon Kent, April 27, 2020] I don’t know which figure is right; but plainly educating Chinese students is big business for Australia.)

I’m glad to say the Aussies have not yet sold their birthright for a mess of bean-curd. Scott Morrison, the Australian Prime Minister, has joined our own President Trump and other national leaders in calling for the ChiComs to publish a full account of how they’ve dealt with the pandemic from its origins. Quote from Prime Minister Morrison:

I don’t think anybody’s in any fantasy land about where it started. It started in China and what the world over needs to know—and there’s a lot of support for this—is how did it start and what are the lessons that can be learned.

That needs to be done independently and why do we want to know that? Because it could happen again.

That caused the ChiCom ambassador to Australia, a very lifelike automaton named Cheng Jingye, to give us a glimpse of the iron fist inside the ChiComs’ velvet glove. The ambassador didn’t say anything about commodity exports, but he did threaten the education, tourism, and agricultural sectors of Australia’s economy, honking that

I think in the long term … if the mood is going from bad to worse, people would think “Why should we go to such a country that is not so friendly to China?” The tourists may have second thoughts … The parents of the students would also think whether this place which they found is not so friendly, even hostile, whether this is the best place to send our kids … Maybe also the ordinary people will say why should we drink Australian wine or to eat Australian beef?

Federal Government calls Chinese ambassador about comments on trade boycott over coronavirus inquiry, by Georgia Hitch and Jordan Hayne, Australian Broadcasting Company, April 27, 2020

I guess we should be grateful that the ambassador-bot at least didn’t tell us that Australia had hurt the feelings of the Chinese people. I always wince when the ChiComs pull that one, which they do a lot.

The Aussies are so far standing firm on this ChiCom bullying, I’m glad to say. One member of parliament has called the ambassador’s remarks “despicable and menacing.” Former Foreign Secretary Alexander Downer, a respected senior figure in Australian politics, said the ambassador had behaved in “a reckless, undiplomatic way.” And so on. There’s quite a tiff going on down there.[Chinese ambassador’s coronavirus inquiry warning was ‘reckless, undiplomatic’, Alexander Downer says, by Nick Wiggins and Sasha Fegan, Australian Broadcasting Company, April 29, 2020]

  • Sweden

Sweden, of all countries, is also taking the lead in combatting China. In part this is because the ChiCom ambassador to Sweden is an exceptionally nasty piece of work.

When I was studying Chinese in London forty years ago I once asked our lecturer, a worldly Chinese fellow of whom I can only remember the surname Tang, if there were any movies I could watch to help me understand ChiCom politics. He replied with no hesitation at all: “The Godfather.”

That is a very good insight. The Chinese Communist Party is a crime syndicate, a clique of amoral gangsters, ready to do anything at all—lie, steal, torture, murder—to preserve their own power and privilege.

Their ambassador to Sweden illustrates this with exceptional clarity. Interviewed on Swedish public radio last November, he said:

We treat our friends with fine wine, but for our enemies we have shotguns.

How Sweden copes with Chinese bullying, The Economist, February 20, 2020

That’s only a hop and a skip away from “keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.” These people, the ChiComs, are hoodlums. As China gets richer and more powerful, the nation’s representatives can less and less be bothered to hide the fact.

The biggest irritant in Sweden’s relations with the ChiComs has been the case of Gui Minhai, a naturalized Swedish citizen of Chinese birth who, living in Hong Kong, wrote gossipy books about the extravagant, corrupt lifestyles of the ChiCom elites, including capo di tutti capi Xi Jinping.

Gui was kidnapped by ChiCom agents in Thailand in 2015. He reappeared in mainland China two years later, but was barred from leaving the country.

ORDER IT NOW

In January 2018, Gui—a Swedish citizen, remember—was arrested by plainclothes police while travelling on a train from Shanghai to a medical appointment in Peking, accompanied by two Swedish diplomats. February this year, after a perfunctory show trial, he was given a ten-year jail sentence for “providing intelligence” to foreign nations.

The authorities told us he had renounced his Swedish citizenship…voluntarily. Right.

Let’s hope Mr. Gui is not sleeping with the fishes.

The Swedes have been admirably firm about this. Several Swedish cities have ended their twinning arrangements with Chinese cities. The so-called Confucius Institutes, ChiCom propaganda outlets in Swedish universities, have all been shut down. [Gothenburg axes twin city agreement with Shanghai as Sweden closes all Confucius Institutes, by Rachel Wong, Hong Kong Free Press, April 24, 2020 ] Last November Sweden’s parliament passed a law to compel a national-security review of Chinese telecom company Huawei as a supplier to Sweden’s 5G network, as reported by the Economist, above. When Pew Research polled 34 countries last year on public attitudes to China, Sweden came out as second most negative, after Japan. [People around the globe are divided in their opinions of China, by Laura Silver, Kat Devlin and Christine Huang, December 5, 2019]

So all strength to the Swedes for standing up to the Peking Cosa Nostra.

There’s a special bit of resonance here for those of us who have dabbled in Sinology: one of the greatest scholars in the field in modern times was Bernhard Karlgren, a Swede. Karlgren himself was before my time—his dates were 1889-1978—but I did once meet his disciple and biographer Göran Malmqvist, another fine Swedish sinologist, who died just last year at age 95.

Karlgren and Malmqvist were scholars of language and literature, not political science. Still, I’d like to think that they are smiling down with approval at their native country from whatever place it is that Swedish sinologists go when summoned to the Afterlife.

But these bullying ambassadors fit into a pattern of the ChiComs taking advantage of the present crisis to flex their muscles. They’ve been leaning hard on Hong Kong the past few days, getting dissidents arrested and tearing big holes in the Basic Law that is supposed to guaranteed Hong Kongers’ freedoms of speech and assembly until 2047. [China Takes Harder Line on Hong Kong Amid Coronavirus Protest Lull,by Joyu Wang and Rachel Yeo, WSJ, April 30, 2020]

If street demonstrations start up again as the lockdown loosens, I’m guessing there will be some serious repression in Hong Kong, perhaps a repeat of Tiananmen Square 1989 with tanks in the streets.

FOOTNOTE: As sturdy as the Australians have been in standing up to ChiCom bullying, they have not been immune to the loathsome, nation-killing blight of Political Correctness.

The issue here is the commemoration this Thursday, April 29th, of Captain Cook‘s arrival in Australia 250 years ago. The commemoration has of course aroused much wailing and rending of garments from ethnomasochist white Australians and front men for the Aborigine lobbies.

Sample quote from one of the former, a spokesman for the National Museum of Australia, quote:

The perspectives of First Australians, and the Gamayngal people of this area, have been largely missing.

Well, yes: Their perspectives have been missing because they were illiterate, and so unable to record their “perspectives.”

To that spokesman, and anyone else whose job obliges him to utter similar banalities, I recommend the wise words of Dr. Johnson to James Boswell:

Don’t cant in defense of savages.

John Derbyshire [email him] writes an incredible amount on all sorts of subjects for all kinds of outlets. (This no longer includes National Review, whose editors had some kind of tantrum and fired him.) He is the author of We Are Doomed: Reclaiming Conservative Pessimism and several other books. He has had two books published by VDARE.com com: FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT (also available in Kindle) and FROM THE DISSIDENT RIGHT II: ESSAYS 2013.

(Republished from VDare by permission of author or representative)
 
• Category: Foreign Policy • Tags: American Media, China 
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  1. So Australia Prime-Minister ScumMuck has joined Trumpty Dumpty in making that demand? And Australia was the first to follow him in banning Hwa-way (sp?) from 5G, why? Because their phones are too secure. And Australia committed naked aggression against Iraq, a far land whose affairs were none of Australia’s business. Why? America wants Australia to jump? How high?

    There was an Australian Prime Minister named Gough Whitlam who was determined to make Australia independent of the USA. What happened? Regime change.

  2. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:

    Mr. Derbyshire’s working hard to show Chinadidit love for his Uncle Sam. In a single column, he

    (1) waves that Cotton flag about “banning Chinese students from studying STEM subjects in our universities,”

    (2) “call[s] for the ChiComs [alone] to publish a full account of how they’ve dealt with the pandemic from its origins,” a subject still to be “independently” investigated,

    (3) condemns the “ChiCom bullying” when an ambassador responds that this might lead to a decline in trade, and

    (4) writes without irony that, “The Chinese Communist Party is a crime syndicate, a clique of amoral gangsters, ready to do anything at all—lie, steal, torture, murder—to preserve their own power and privilege.”

    Exceptional!

  3. All Australian PM’s know they must toe the line and betray their own citizen, Julian Assange, because the US wants it.

    We can criticize China for claiming mineral rights over the water passage between Vietnam and the Philippines, for annexing Tibet whose people are Mongol not Han, for denying self-determination to East Turkistan, for aggression against India to grab more land, …

    But China is not a threat to Australia, America is. That was made very clear in the book Dangerous Allies by former PM and now late Malcolm Fraser, the beneficiary though not implicated of the Whitlam regime change.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  4. FFS Derbyshire – if you think that the Australian government’s ‘leadership’ is sui generis, you need testing for Alzheimers.

    Conservative Australian governments are always told what to say by the dying Empire of the day; Labour governments are always told what to say by the rising Empire of the day.

    There was a brief grey period in the early 1970s when Whitlam told the then-still-rising US Empire that Australia wasn’t it’s plaything – whereupon the CIA did one of its clandestine putsches and the Whitlam government was unceremoniously booted from office.

    1975-1983: Fraser (Conservative) – chummy with the Yanks.
    1983-1996: Hawke/Keating (Labour) – chummy with the Chinks.
    1996-2007: Howard – chummy with the Yanks.
    2007-2013: Rudd/Gillard/Rudd – chummy with the Chinks.
    2013-currentYear: Abbot/Turnbull/Morrison – chummy with the Yanks.

    Morrison’s “leadership” on the ‘independent’ investigation of the origins of the Manchu Flu is just conservative Australian politics sucking US cock.
    .

    Sweden? Sweden? The reliable partner in US black-site renditions… that Sweden?

    Yes, they did a very-slightly-noble thing in their approach to CoronaChan, but that’s small beer compared to them being a reliable US satrap.

    .

    And if you think it’s hors jeu for Chink diplomats to speak frankly, that says more about you than it does about them. Yank diplomats might refrain from speaking plainly, but they will perpetrate all manner of clandestine queefy shit. (That said: Samantha Power, Nikki Haley, John Bolton… you think any Chink rivals those vile cunts?)

    Fuck diplomacy and gravitas: hopefully China continues to be absolutely open about what it will cost regional pawns if they sell out to the waning US, and try to pretend-flex on the Dragon.

    As New Zealand made clear when Lange told the Yanks they could not operate nuclear armed (or powered) warships in NZ waters: the US will reliably not come to the aid of Oceania (Oz/NZ) if things kick off regionally, unless it suits US interests, and it never will.

    .

    So here we are: someone in Washington sends a text telling Morrison to harm Australia’s single most important trade relationship, and Morrison drops to his knees and starts letting the US facefuck him.

    And he’s not deepthroating Washington in order to enhance Australia’s ‘defence’ ties to the US, because those are a myth. He’s sucking that Yank cock because he knows it will make him personally rich. He’s a member of one of those fucktarded ‘prosperity gospel’ charismatic churches, after all…

  5. Wow, this IS a brain teazer: why is Australia’s PM supporting an “independent” investigating in China & Cov19? Could is be that Morrison is a slavish dog to US dictates?
    It’s not suspicious at all that there are calls for an investigation when the virus is barely peaking — Pre-crime…. ?
    As for “independent” — that’s laughable. Reminds me of that wonderfully independent investigation of M.A 17 crash in Ukraine. (apparently it’s a legal tradition to have the primary suspect help investigate their own crime)
    Derb shows his deep knowledge of Australia with this:
    “Former Foreign Secretary Alexander Downer, a respected senior figure in Australian politics, said the ambassador had behaved in “a reckless, undiplomatic way.”[my emphasis]
    “Respected” ? Most Australian’s know Downer as a dithering nit-wit. He’s the self-inflating ding-a-ling who helped ignite the Russiagate nonsense.
    As for Sweden re the US? One need only say “Julien Assange” to know how slavish the Swedes are.
    This article demonstrates that Derb’ is in essence a mouth piece for Elite Imperialism. Move away from immigration & race-baiting & the guy is as establishment as they come.

    • Replies: @Seraphim
  6. sb says:
    @Kratoklastes

    I always think that Australians who think Australia and the US are natural allies have never been to the US or met many Americans .You can’t generalise from Americans met in Australia and in third countries . They are very untypical and usually quite different to the large stay home majority .

    There is an Anglosphere tribe ( for want of a better name ) in the US but they are a decreasing minority and while they were once upon a time a significant force they are no longer so and are becoming less relevant as every year passes .
    Even so it is one thing to admire aspects of a country and it’s people and quite another to support it in any way . This privileged position exists only for Israel . Remember that for all the Anglophiles there once were among the American elite at the same time the prime US foreign policy was the dismemberment of the British Empire

    America these days is a polyglot place full of antagonistic tribes . The number of people who could place Australia on a map ( and Australia is quite possibly one of the better known countries to Americans ) are few

    I should add that the readers on this site are untypical ( well some of them ) . But you know that already .

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Rich
  7. While support for Gui Minhai is commendable, where is the outrage when it comes to white farmers in South Africa who are being murdered?

    In fact Swedes have blood on their hands for supporting ‘humanitarian work’ (terrorism) in that country and helping to put black criminals in power.

    Besides ChiCom and ilk already own firms like Volvo Cars.

    First Australians.

    Before the advent of Europeans there was no such thing as Australia only bush, crocs, kangaroos, koalas and wombats. Most so-called ‘Abos’ aren’t even the genuine article like some blue-eyed casino millionaires posing as Tepee Americans.

    Australia needs more Boudica types like Pauline Hanson (Seccombe) not opportunists listed above by someone.

    They ain’t making Australian Aborigines like they used to
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/they-aint-making-australian-aborigines-like-they-used-to/

  8. One Mr. Cheng says:

    The parents of the students would also think whether this place which they found is not so friendly, even hostile, whether this is the best place to send our kids … Maybe also the ordinary people will say why should we drink Australian wine or to eat Australian beef?

    Maybe, these Chinese parents know that it’s the only way for their children to see (the remains of) these formerly-free, high-trust societies and live among those sorts of people for 4 years… or more … and bring them over if possible.

    Maybe also, the ordinary people will still drink Australian wine because the Chinese know squat-all about beer, wine, and liquor, and they’ll continue eating Australian beef because they know it’s not pork disguised as beef or something poisonous.

    If you can convince them otherwise, Mr. Chang, knock yourself out! Regarding the students, it’d be nice if these millions would go back to China for school, as they are supposed to be some of the best now. (I am not doubting that here and will note that education-wise, American universities are living off reputation alone now.) American universities are selling out their country’s human capital for that cash to build buildings and hire more Diversity Coordinators. I say let them die. One of several silver linings in this cloud of Kung Flu LOCKDOWN is that, if these “higher-ed” schools close during the fall, the whole system is ripe for burning them down and doing it all differently. It’d be a good thing!

    The Graduate Schools are so full of Chinese students, even in some of the non-STEM areas, that the universities would have to send them home slowly, in order to keep positions filled. We have a (yellow-starred, no less) commenter here, AnonFromTN, who is not FROM Tennessee, but from Russia, coming to America in the early 1990s and researching in Tennessee. In general I like and agree with the guy, but he had the gall to tell me that, no, Americans can’t do these research and teaching jobs in American graduate schools. Bullshit. I was there. They were full of Americans with only a sprinkling of foreigners in the late 1980s. They’ve been priced out by cheap foreign labor, as usual.

  9. “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer”

    I note in jest that that is your policy too, Mr. Derbyshire. Even with your great knowledge of the Chinese culture, language, and politics, I’m sure she can give you plenty more background to help you explain what’s really going on with the Chinese and that Cosa Nostra crowd comprising the government there.

    A few more things:

    1) Thank you for using Peking! Peak Stupidity insists on this usage from all its bloggers.

    2) Don’t mind the Chinaphile Anti-All-Things-American Commies that may try to fill up this thread with inanities. (4 out of the 1st 5 – I exclude commenter Krato from the Commies)

    3) I present to you and the readers a few links to PS posts on the Chinese at American universities with plenty of 1st-hand knowledge:

    Univ. of California sells out to foreigners
    Banned in Beijing (Yes, that writer would have been fired but for his excuse of “alliteration, alliteration!”)
    Housing Bubble 2.0 – (Part 2) – Voila, an American Dream
    Chinese students at the American Universities
    You can’t even say “SHUSH UP!” anymore.

    I enjoy reading your Radio Derb transcripts on VDare. Thank you very much.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @anonymous
  10. Anon[378] • Disclaimer says:

    Jees Derb, you stirred up a weird assortment of early commenters. Who knew there was much passion down under.

  11. Patriot says:

    Wife and I travelled Australia during most of 2018. I was astounded that all large Aussi cities are heavily Chinese. Also, every Outback town has at least one Chinese restaurant.

    Australia is becomming swamped with Chinese (and Indians, Muslims, and Africans). But the Chinese are the worst because they exist as large independent social, political, and economic colonies inside Australia (and New Zealand, too).

    Wake up Australia and NZ (and Canada) — you are rapidly being colonized by another race that does not have your best intrests in mind. The Chinese are smart, super competitive and ruthless. You WILL lose your nations! Your grandchildren WILL be rulled by Chinese. The Chinese do not suffer from the fantasies that we are all the same, we should all love oneanother, and that we should be fair and honest.

    • Replies: @Daniel H
  12. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Look who’s back to plug his website, adding little of substance to the discussion.

    2) Don’t mind the Chinaphile Anti-All-Things-American Commies that may try to fill up this thread with inanities. (4 out of the 1st 5 – I exclude commenter Krato from the Commies)

    When you can’t refute, smear.

    I enjoy reading your Radio Derb transcripts on VDare. Thank you very much.

    Oh, and always kiss up.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  13. @anonymous

    Nah, I’m not always on-board with all Mr. Derbyshire’s opinions. It may sound weird to a Commie, but I think he brought a little too much of a Socialist attitude with him from the old country. In fact, there’s a slight criticism about his opinion of the current big unemployment payments turning into the UBI – in John Derbyshire on the proto-UBI, from just the other day. Enjoy!

    I’m with Mr. Derbyshire on this, though: I like the Chinese people. I don’t think much of the Chinese government, though possibly still a bit more than I think of “our” American Feral Government.

    .

    PS: Oh, and I’ve got a whole website refuting you people. I can’t post the whole thing in here, you know.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    , @Anon
  14. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    And check out my “Commie” comments under the last couple columns of Mr. Rall.

    The two of you would make a nice bottom of the card matchup for the Left/Right Wrestlemania.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  15. Rahan says:

    Hihi, over the last 3-4 weeks it became super apparent who’s who. Who instantly jumped on a “China-gate” mirror world of the leftie “Russia-gate”, and who isn’t a rightwing NPC.

    I’d say this is pretty good. After 2016 it soon became clear who among the US and UK left are the NPC’s, and who are actual individuals with internal dialogues and sheit.

    Now the same process of filtering is happening with the right wing. You open the Foxnews website, it’s just a transrcirpt of the current party line in various shapes and from various angles. So that’s that. Total mirror image of the CNN suddenly.

    In fact, just like there’s an almost perfect overlap among the left between patients with Trump Derangement Syndrome and patients with Russia’s Invisible Rays Paranoia, we will now likely see that the original “never-trumpers” will be those most active today in the China’s Spies Are in My Washing Machine field.

    Good, good. A clearing of the air, a reshuffle to see who’s who. Combined with who support Trump’s current infrastructure mega-invenstments (Chine-style, cough) into the US, and those “right-wingers” who oppose it, this will be a perfect filter.

  16. nsa says:

    “….warned the folks down under that they are in danger of becoming a Chinese colony.”
    Hilarious stuff coming from a pommie shitter. Back in the day didn’t you poms test your nuclear weapons in Australia….and not just in the interior but also coastal islands? Being used as a nuclear weapon test site and waste dump……now that’s a colony.

  17. @Ann Nonny Mouse

    Your average American does not even know where Australia is on a map. As an American who has been to Cranberra on business, I can attest that you cannot get into Australia with a single drunk driving conviction. Australia really wants nothing to do with the US.

    If Australians feel that China is not a threat-and I say this as a man who made money in Cranberra-they should be free to allow the US to remove its Naval vessels from Pacific waters to reduce our military defense industry. Then one or two veterans would not be homeless on the streets of Los Angeles who served in Pacific Australian waters.

    China will become Australia’s ruling elite. Lebanese and Sudanese gangs will rule the streets. The white Australian unlike Jews, is not really prepared for their cutthroat tactics coming from a middle-class society.

    • Replies: @Ann Nonny Mouse
  18. @sb

    Australians themselves are only aware of two cities in America-New York and Los Angeles. And maybe Texas. Most Americans know Perth is in the West, Queensland is basically Asian jungle and some nutter named Byrant shot a bunch of Americans in Adelaide back in 1996. Martin kind of put Adelaide on the map by shooting some American kids there.

    How do Americans think of Australia? As being like a British California with a salt-of-the-earth Anglo-Celtic populace reminiscent of the US South.

    Americans who come to Australia are unusual in that America has less of a secure middle-class and for many Americans a plane flight to Australia is too expensive.

    So Americans who come to Australia are usually educated, wealthy business types.

    The Anglo-Celtic stock of the US is generally poor and living in the interior states. The ruling elite of the US have been Irish-Catholics and Jews for about 100 years.

    Australia also has Italians and a mafia in Melbourne.

    Instead of Mexicans, Australia has Lebanese. They are similar in gang activity and low-level drug dealing, though the Vietnamese and Italians control the heroin at the import level.

    You have less antagonistic tribes because you literally killed the all.

    Oh, and for some reason, your most famous actors are Americans. Gibson, Newton-John, Kidman.

    Instead of having Jews as a financial ruling elite, you have Chinese.

    I did some business in Perth myself…and tried to hang around. To no avail.

    • Replies: @sb
  19. unit472 says:

    Its amazing the irrelevant factoids people here throw out to obscure and deflect Chinese responsibility for unleashing a deadly pandemic on the world. I can understand Chinese threats and bullying to keep global opinion from demanding accountability from the criminals in Beijing. Its what totalitarian dictatorships do. Doesn’t change the facts though.

    I like to use an analogy. Suppose on March 11th, 2011 Japan had a Xi Jinping in power and his regime tried to cover up the accident at Fukushima. The spent fuel pools caught fire and a radioactive cloud swept first over Tokyo and then the rest of the Northern Hemisphere because the Japanese government did not want to admit it lost control of 6 nuclear reactors. Worse, it then accused China, Russia or the US of being responsible for the radioactive emissions and allowed no outside experts access to Fukushima Would the clowns posting nonsense here have accepted Japan’s explanation?

  20. Ron Unz says:
    @unit472

    Its amazing the irrelevant factoids people here throw out to obscure and deflect Chinese responsibility for unleashing a deadly pandemic on the world. I can understand Chinese threats and bullying to keep global opinion from demanding accountability from the criminals in Beijing. Its what totalitarian dictatorships do. Doesn’t change the facts though.

    Well, ignorant retards like you can believe whatever ridiculous nonsense you get from FoxNews or similar sources. But the actual evidence is pretty strong that the Coronavirus outbreak was an American biowarfare attack on China (and Iran), presumably arranged by the Deep State Neocons in the Trump Administration.

    Otherwise, how could our Defense Intelligence Agency have distributed a November report to all our top government officials and European allies describing a “cataclysmic” disease epidemic taking place in Wuhan OVER A MONTH before any Chinese officials had become aware of it:

    Four separate government sources described the report to ABC News and its existence was independently confirmed by Israeli TV:

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/facebook-bans-the-unz-review/

    Now go back to watching Mike Pompeo’s silly accusations on FoxNews…

  21. @anonymous

    My god. This stupid writer must be very old. He sounds like a yellow-peril scarer from the 1890s.

    Fucking complete idiot.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  22. @Ron Unz

    Another interesting article you may find diverting from highly conservative Occidental Dissent dumping on idiot conservatives. Alas, Sweden ain’t what she used to be.

    http://www.occidentaldissent.com/2020/05/01/conservatives-are-obsessed-with-sweden/

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  23. What kind of moron says “Chicom”? You people and your idiot made up names for things.

    • Replies: @FALPhil
  24. unit472 says:
    @Ron Unz

    I’m not going to get in a flame war and call people retards because they don’t want to believe their lying eyes but the outbreak in Wuhan happened live on Twitter videos made by residents of Wuhan. I don’t put a lot stock in anything ‘intelligence” agencies say because they are professional liars and probably have on file documents to assign blame or CYA position papers for any contingency. If not they will create and back date them. Its their job for crying out loud.

    OTOH Chinese medical doctors experiencing a unknown disease have no reason to lie and every reason to want to warn people. They tried and were disappeared.

    • Replies: @Uomiem
  25. AaronB says:
    @unit472

    Good comment. Thanks.

    What this shows is that China is not yet ready to be a responsible global citizen. Totalitarian governments operate by a different set of incentives, ones that make survival of the governing clique the overriding concern.

    Eventually, China will mature into a more responsible country and system, but we are not there yet.

    • Replies: @nsa
  26. AaronB says:
    @unit472

    Wired has a fascinating piece on the Chinese cover up of Covid –

    https://www.wired.com/story/inside-the-early-days-of-chinas-coronavirus-coverup/

    [MORE]

    Yue thought that she had become desensitized, but this post made her fists clench: It was written by Xiao Hui, a journalist friend of hers who was reporting on the ground for Caixin, a prominent Chinese news outlet. Yue trusted her.

    She read on. “On January 22, on my second day reporting in Wuhan, I knew this was China’s Chernobyl,” Xiao Hui wrote. “These days I rarely pick up phone calls from outside of Wuhan or chat with friends and family, because nothing can express what I have seen here.”

    Unable to contain her anger, Yue took a screenshot of Xiao’s post and immediately posted it on her WeChat Moments. “Look what is happening in Wuhan!” she wrote. Then she finally drifted off.

    That post disappeared, and Xiao Hui had her access to WeChat cut off for spreading rumors. More:

    It’s not hard to see how these censored posts contradicted the state’s preferred narrative. Judging from these vanished accounts, the regime’s coverup of the initial outbreak certainly did not help buy the world time, but instead apparently incubated what some have described as a humanitarian disaster in Wuhan and Hubei Province, which in turn may have set the stage for the global spread of the virus. And the state’s apparent reluctance to show scenes of mass suffering and disorder cruelly starved Chinese citizens of vital information when it mattered most

  27. Daniel H says:

    If Chinese students want to come here and study Shakespeare and the Federalist Papers,

    My guess, your typical Chinese undergraduate has more appreciation for Shakespeare and the Federalist Papers than most of the young, woke, white, punks running around our campuses.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  28. Ken52 says:

    Er. How about Jeffrey Epstein? People in glass houses…

  29. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    PS: Oh, and I’ve got a whole website refuting you people. I can’t post the whole thing in here, you know.

    No thanks, I know just from what you post here that your reach exceeds your grasp.

  30. unit472 says:
    @Kratoklastes

    A very short history lesson about US objectives in the Pacific War. The US objective was to get LAND BASED aircraft within range of the Japanese homeland. Defending ANZ was a distraction to that but it was done anyway because of the brutality the Japanese military were inflicting on conquered peoples and Allied POWs. Ergo the US Navy was dispatched in 1942 to prevent Japan from taking Australia and some pitched battles ensued in the Solomon Islands, New Guinea and surrounding waters. Nimitz had to delay his push across the Central Pacific (Tarawa, Saipan etc. ) to get those B-29s within range of Tokyo but it was done for the above reason.

  31. Anon[291] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Given the evidence laid out in the 21-April America Pravda installment only someone with the mentality of an OJ juror could still blame China for the COVID-19 outbreak. These foaming-at-the-mouth Sinophobes and Deep State disinformation operatives are like those black women blaming Ron Goldman for killing Nicole Brown Simpson in a murder-suicide.

    • Agree: Ron Unz, Daniel H
  32. @unit472

    Well factoid this: the “Italian” Covid is completely different than the “Chinese” Covid. How do two strains break out simultaneously 5,000 miles apart?

    Wake the fuck up, Fukushima is a big coverup, and has been from Day 1. How does a reactor with no fuel in it explode? The governments of Canada and the US have raised “allowable limits” of background radiation to cover for what is really going on.
    https://311truth.wordpress.com/2014/01/12/the-argument-that-fukushima-was-sabotaged/

  33. @Daniel H

    My guess, your typical Chinese undergraduate has more appreciation for Shakespeare and the Federalist Papers than most of the young, woke, white, punks running around our campuses.

    Nah, Daniel, it’d be a tie, between the one not knowing squat and the other not knowing squat. They come from China, and our 2 languages are as far apart as I could imagine short of episodes of Star Trek (OK, or the clicking Bushmen or what-have-you).

    You can’t appreciate Shakespeare if you barely got through that TOEFL test with hardly any cheating. As for the Federalist Papers, the Chinese people are not exactly up for getting that Citizenship in the Nation merit badge.

  34. Ron Unz says:
    @obwandiyag

    My god. This stupid writer must be very old. He sounds like a yellow-peril scarer from the 1890s.

    Ha, ha, ha…not quite!…

    I’ve been friendly with Derb for about twenty years. His wife is Chinese and he lived in China for a number of years in the early 1980s (I think).

    I remember back a dozen or so years ago, he was regularly saying how badly America was doing in comparison (even back then) relative to China. Chinese friends of his would reasonably complain that all our ridiculous bureaucracy and government regulations made it almost impossible to start a successful business compared with China. Also, our crazy social policies and legal system compared very unfavorably with most of what was going on in China.

    I remember once or twice joking with him that since he was the most extreme rightwinger not yet purged from National Review, it seemed a little ironic that he regarded Communist China so favorably. There were also some jokes that Philippe Rushton, the top racialist academic scholar, might have to flee to China for the freedom of thought it still allowed.

    In late 2019, Derb and his wife took their first long trip back to China in 18 years, and even though he was prepared for huge changes, his 9,300 word piece focused on the amazing development he saw there:

    https://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/september-diary-my-return-to-china-after-18-years/

    But now Trump and his FoxNews Neocons have now declared China to be the current Great Satan, and all the rightwingers are automatically following along, so well, Derb has to earn a living, doesn’t he?…

  35. @anonymous

    Who? Me and Ted Rall, or me and John Derbyshire? Where are you on the billing, above or below Hulk Hogan?

  36. @Ron Unz

    Mr. Unz, I believe Mr. Derbyshire has enough background knowledge to tell it like it is. He just went there, as we both know. Was he not honest in his assessment? There’s good and bad, and I have quite bit of inside information from Chinese people myself and have been there 11 times. I do not have any kind of handle on the language, and haven’t read the history or lived there for years like Mr. D. I imagine his wife can still fill him in on things that could be unknown to any “white ghost”.

    Let’s compare that to Mr. Fred Reed, another writer who likes to expound on foreign matters. Mr. Reed wrote a couple of very good, travelogue-style columns about his 2 or 3 week trip, but he doesn’t know anything about what’s really going on there. Yet, he goes on about how we suck, and they don’t, nah, nah, like an idiot.

    I urged you before, Mr. Unz, to take a trip there for yourself, for long enough, and with enough help from Chinese people that you can learn something. Obviously, now is not a good time, haha!

    I like Chinese people. They live in what’s becoming the most powerful country, but I don’t understand why the un-knowledgeable Chinaphiles here can’t see more than some rosy picture. There’s 2 sides to every story.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  37. Ko says:

    “Maybe also the ordinary people will say why should we drink Australian wine or to eat Australian beef?”

    Well, let’s see, would most Chinese with a few bucks rather drink duck blood, or any animal blood, and eat pig intestine and raw dog meat? I’d guess they prefer the snobbery of Aussie wine and steak.

    • Replies: @anon
  38. Anon[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    The psychopaths of the Anglo-Zionist empire never rest.

    Foreign Policy

    U.S. Military Wary of China’s Foothold in Venezuela

    The head of U.S. Southern Command says Beijing is using disinformation and debt diplomacy to dig in as Maduro clings to power.

    By Lara Seligman, April 8, 2019

    As U.S. President Donald Trump’s national security team mulls a military intervention to oust Venezuela’s strongman president, Nicolás Maduro, the Pentagon is watching China’s commercial and financial creep in the crisis-gripped nation with growing alarm…

    https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/08/us-military-wary-of-chinas-foothold-in-venezuela-maduro-faller-guaido-trump-pentagon/

    Uh oh, I smell another regime change coming…

    Ex-Green Beret led failed attempt to oust Venezuela’s Maduro

    by: Array, Associated Press
    Posted: May 1, 2020

    MIAMI (AP) — The plan was simple, but perilous. Some 300 heavily armed volunteers would sneak into Venezuela from the northern tip of South America. Along the way, they would raid military bases in the socialist country and ignite a popular rebellion that would end in President Nicolás Maduro’s arrest…

    https://www.wavy.com/news/world/ex-green-beret-led-failed-attempt-to-oust-venezuelas-maduro/

    Plan B…

    The US is deploying Navy warships closer to Venezuela as part of anti-drug efforts

    Matt Spetalnick and Phil Stewart, Reuters
    April 1, 2020

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Trump administration is deploying U.S. Navy ships closer to Venezuela to beef up anti-drug efforts following a U.S. drug trafficking indictment against Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, according to a U.S. official and two other people familiar with the matter…

    https://taskandpurpose.com/news/us-deploys-warships-closer-venezuela

    Latin American regime changes by AZE Deep State use the narco-trafficking false flag. As opposed to the the Middle East where they use WMDs.

    Crooked cop procedure 101: plant drugs on a suspect.

    Seized cocaine shipment traced to Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro

    By Isabel Vincent May 2, 2020

    Four tons of cocaine worth more than $165 million seized off of the Spanish coast last week has been linked to Venezuelan strongman Nicolás Maduro, US authorities said…

    https://nypost.com/2020/05/02/seized-cocaine-traced-to-venezuelan-president-nicolas-maduro/

    Re: Derb’s personal life, Chinese wives are the highest quality product made in China.

  39. Ron Unz says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Mr. Unz, I believe Mr. Derbyshire has enough background knowledge to tell it like it is. He just went there, as we both know. Was he not honest in his assessment?

    Well, from what I vaguely remember his 9,300 word description of China based on his visit there seemed pretty reasonable and realistic, but it was published in October 2019:

    https://www.unz.com/jderbyshire/september-diary-my-return-to-china-after-18-years/

    However, now word has officially come down that China is the Great Satan and must be denounced by all rightwingers, so that’s what Derb does. Similarly, for the last few years, all liberals and Democrats needed to denounce Putin and Russia as the Great Satan, lest they be purged from MSM outlets.

    For example, Princeton Prof. Stephen Cohen had spent decades as the most distinguished left-liberal Russia scholar and his wife was the publisher of The Nation, the top left-liberal magazine. But because he refused to say ridiculous things about Putin, he was still purged from the left-liberal MSM, and even attacked and denounced.

    In the past, I ridiculed you as just a typical empty-headed rightwinger based on the smattering of your comments that I’ve occasionally seen, and you’ve bitterly objected, correctly pointing out that I’ve formed that opinion without reading your entire comment-archive. But that collection totals 14K(!) comments, amounting to almost 1.3 million(!) words, and I have better things to do with my time than spend two weeks reading all your past comments. So here’s a simple question…

    There are multiple, independent sources in both the US government and Israel that agree that our Defense Intelligence Agency distributed a report in November warning of the “cataclysmic” disease outbreak that was taking place in Wuhan. Those facts seem almost incontrovertible.

    As it happens, that was indeed right around the time that the Coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan had actually begun, but at such an early stage that no Chinese officials were yet aware of it, just like the virus later began circulating in various parts of America several weeks before people noticed it.

    So unless you believe that our DIA has developed “precognitive technology”, how can they have possibly been aware of the outbreak before anyone in China unless elements of our national security establishment had themselves released the virus in Wuhan as a biowarfare attack against China?

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/facebook-bans-the-unz-review/

    Since I certainly don’t plan to read your 1.3 million words of comments, your response to this simple question will determine whether or not I continue to regard you as just a random rightwing idiot who hangs around my website…

  40. TG says:

    So, Chinese foreign policy is: “We treat our friends with fine wine, but for our enemies we have shotguns.”

    Harsh, but I think not inappropriate for statecraft.

    US foreign policy is: “We treat our friends and enemies alike with shotguns, because we are the one indispensable nation and we have a Responsibility to Protect (“R2P”) and past material support will not prevent us from declaring you at any time to be fascist and racist and Literally Hitler and having your and your family hunted down like dogs and tortured and killed, depending on the whims of whatever elitists are in charge of the state department that day.”

    Past foreign leaders that tried very hard to support the United States include Muammar Gaddafi, Saddam Hussein, Bashir al-Assad, and yes, even Vladimir Putin. Little good has that done them.

    I wonder whose foreign policy will long-term prove more effective…

  41. I wouldn’t give the Aussies credit for standing up to anything. Their reaction to the Morrison lockdown seems very Body Snatchers-like. It’s for the best, the government wants us safe, they repeat in a monotone while mocking Americans for protesting this insane BS. They’re sheep. And Morrison is telling the sheeple to behave so they can return to what they do best — visiting the pub.

    View post on imgur.com

    • Replies: @anon
  42. Daniel H says:
    @Patriot

    Wake up Australia and NZ (and Canada) — you are rapidly being colonized by another race that does not have your best intrests in mind.

    I would rather be ruled by Chinese than white plutocrats. There is nothing more evil than the white plutocracy.

  43. @Ron Unz

    Thanks for the reply, Mr. Unz. I most certainly DON’T expect you to read my 1.3 million word in those ~ 13K comments (see, there’s that skimming again). It’d be impossible for you to read 1/10 of all the comments entered into your dBase, as a quick guess, and that’s something you should be proud of. I tend to get into the smart-ass remarks quite often and then the banter, often about things well worth discussing but not always on-topic, under iSteve threads (for the most part), hence the large #.

    The thing is, I can’t even read all the articles on your site, either. For one, I have a job, but secondly, I’m the type that likes to read through all the comments on a particular post, especially if I’m ready to comment myself. Fine. I wrote that to explain why I haven’t read all of your conspiracy theory articles and all of the American Pravda ones. It’s not that I wouldn’t agree with a good bit of it, BTW, especially the ones about the nefarious US Feral Gov’t and Deep State.

    You are mistaken that I am “bitterly concerned” about your thinking I’m that “random rightwing ranter”. I told you that you were wrong, and I’m glad you admitted that you have no idea (and really can’t that easily). I am just very glad you have not been banning people who disagree on the Kung Flu Infotainment Panic-Fest, as I’ve seen you grumble about doing. It is a hard thing to do, doing the right thing, even though it’s your site, nobody may even know, and people often rub you the wrong way.

    I have not read your US-caused Corona-virus post, so I won’t argue on those details. From just what you wrote here though, your evidence is circumstantial. Look, you rightly call out the US Gov’t (and the Israeli here), but then you think all Chinese officials are the truthful ones. Really? What makes you think that those Wuhan officials weren’t covering up for what was already happening? If you’d read some Derbyshire and others on the Chinese culture, you would know that honesty doesn’t come ahead of avoiding embarrassment for the Chinese people. I tend to view this virus view the lenses of common-sense, past similar occurrences, and Occam’s razor.

    Lastly, I agree with you that this Kung Flu crap is being used to make China the new ’16-19 Russia. I don’t agree China is the bogeyman in the many aspects of US/China relations. As a Libertarian and Conservative (not some GOPer or Neocon), I doubt I am what you’d consider a “Right-winger”. I’m not worried about that implied insult – just glad to be able to comment.

    Thank you for being a stalwart defender of free speech, while most others cuck out or are actively suppressing it all over America (re: the FB deal)! We don’t have to agree on everything, right? You don’t know it all, right? Why deride your commenters anyway, even if there are admittedly some pretty daft mofos here and there? For some crazy people, the grammar and writing style are pretty damn professional most of the time. Go compare them to the comments on your local newspapers’ website! The ones here are much better than a Kim Kardashian tweet, but not quite as erudite as a Ted Kaczynski manifesto.

    See ya.

  44. unit472 says:

    I recall an episode of “Forensic Files” where a disease broke out among Native Americans in the US Southwest. The CDC was baffled at first but Indian folklore and medical research identified it as a type of hantavirus spread by mice feces. Now mice feces were always there but it took some unusual circumstances to make it a lethal problem for humans. Here it was unusually heavy rainfall that increased human/rodent contact with mice invading dwellings and defecating on the clothing of the people.

    Now in Wuhan we got a virus found in horseshoe bat feces, not indigenous to the region nor sold in the Wuham ‘wet’ market but of the very type being studied at Wuhan virology labs. We can get stuck on stupid or see the obvious vector. The virus escaped from the lab late last year and began circulating in the population.

    The Chinese government, not wanting to admit the disaster, decided to cover it up. Worse, for some inexplicable reason, decided it was better off allowing the virus to escape its borders while doing all it could to stop it from spreading internally.

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter
  45. Anon[223] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Lol,
    ABC also said that there was definite sources that Kim Jong Un died, and now South Korea has released pictures that he is indeed alive. Many government sources were claiming that piece of evidence. Now, you have an unconfirmed report from ABC, no other American media outlets confirming it, and one Israeli Tv source, which references the ABC report in its reporting.

    Anyways, as you stated, China shutdown when there were only a dozen confirmed cases and a minuscule number of fatalities. How did China determine the deadliness of the disease so rapidly? I highly doubt the corona-virus is a Chinese creation, but that piece of evidence is stronger than from some reporting from a media outlet that also reports that Trump peed in a Russian hotel. Israeli media is always claiming some conspiracy against Jews somewhere, just as ridiculous.

    Though to be fair, the Facebook banning is extremely suspicious, though I think they just wanted an excuse to ban you for a while. After all, Facebook isn’t as concerned as implicating the US government as they are for wanting to avoid the woke crowd’s wrath. Remember the content that your site routinely provides. Add Mrs. Malkin’s addition, and you can see the fear that many of them have that the ideas here might attract the rage of the “Woke Crowd”. Still, the banning is a major point for your hypothesis

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Pericles
  46. anon[238] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ko

    Worked for an Aussie butcher in a heavily chinese suburb about 20 years ago, he showed me a 22 lb box of product that looked like tiny deflated balloons.
    Pigs uteruses, some local chinese restaurant wanted them, he rang abattoirs up and down the east coast of Australia until he found one in Victoria that could supply the things regularly.

  47. anon[238] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bragadocious

    And Morrison is telling the sheeple to behave so they can return to what they do best — visiting the pub.

    Pubs as a part of Australian life are just part of the ruling class narrative, not the reality.
    Pubs have been closing down for years in Queensland, the ones that stayed open before
    the ‘rona were mostly patronised by fools sitting in front of slot machines, Keno addicts, and horse and dog racing bettors.

  48. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Asked one, simple question, you pack another 500 words around

    I have not read your US-caused Corona-virus post, so I won’t argue on those details.

    Here’s another, simpler question: Is your “job” running the website Peak Stupidity?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  49. Ron Unz says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I tend to get into the smart-ass remarks quite often and then the banter, often about things well worth discussing but not always on-topic, under iSteve threads (for the most part), hence the large #…I have not read your US-caused Corona-virus post, so I won’t argue on those details.

    Well, I gave you a fair chance. You’ve simply confirmed that you’re exactly the sort of ignorant rightwing ranter I had assumed from the comments I’d noticed.

    Since your ranting and “banter” probably adds nothing of substantive value, maybe I should just arrange to have all of your future comments on this website summarily trashed…though I suppose that I probably won’t…

    • Disagree: Brás Cubas
  50. @Jeff Stryker

    Sure. Take the US Navy back to US waters where it belongs. And get out of Pine Gap which makes Australia the target of the first nuclear strike if there is war between the USA and China.

    As for Lebanese or people from any country in turmoil due to ISA scheming, and Australia’s ruling elite, leave Australia to take care of its own many problems.

  51. Rich says:
    @sb

    Australia is actually America’s closest ally. Aussies have fought beside the US in just about every conflict the US has taken part in since the Boxer rebellion. When Australia finally gives up its special relationship with the US, it will become Hong Kong. And that’s not meant as an affront to the Australian soldiers, who’ve always done yeoman’s work in the field and proven themselves to be top soldiers. Just a matter of population.

  52. @anonymous

    Yeah, right, that’ll pay the bills!

    (That was not at all the question, but I should have expected neither Mr. Unz nor you to read the whole thing. He skims everything, and perhaps that one was too long for you to finish by dinner.)

  53. Daniel H says:
    @Ron Unz

    OT to this post but related to your China rise essay.

    In the China Rise essay you asserted that at the time – 10 years ago – China had constructed a national high speed rail grid covering 6,000 miles. I found that surprising, so I checked up. Did a little googling, Well, guess what, as of today, China’s high speed rail network rail grid covers 22,000 miles, 14,000 more miles added in ten years. Wow. Wow. Wow.

    It is clear that China is an altogether different class of industrial planning/management/execution than we are. Now I am perfectly willing to listen to anybody make the claim that this is just a rapacious, debt consuming boondoogle, but I doubt it. It seems that at this point China is capable of doing things that we have zero hope of accomplishing. What is our high-speed rail network at this point? A few miles of construction south of the Bay area and some plan on the drawing board to connect LA and Las Vegas.

    Chinese leaders make sure that resources go into building useful, profit returning infrastructure. Our leaders work 24/7, spending $ Trillions, in the futile attempt to keep financial markets afloat through financial manipulation, strictly to benefit the investor class. Who is going to be the leader in 20 years?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_China

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
  54. nsa says:
    @AaronB

    “What this shows is that China is not ready to be a responsible global citizen.”
    Translated……you are pissed the wily Chinese haven’t let you jooies in to pillage the place.

  55. Anonymous[170] • Disclaimer says:

    Derb knows the real sources of America’s decline, but also knows the problems won’t be solved anytime soon. Much easier to jump on the establishment’s anti-China bandwagon. Sure, excluding Chinese techies from American universities won’t fix anything,* its not like there’s a shortage of seats in universities, but it feels better. Plus, it has more appeal to the unwashed masses, who want to believe everything’s fine here, with Loud-Talking Alpha Male in charge.

    *I should note that nearly all Chinese students return home, they aren’t the ones overstaying their visas.

  56. @Ron Unz

    I thought Derb had been expelled from the Review and other, er, “respectable” conservative outlets because of his now infamous article, “The Talk”. Given that, it seems like he would have nothing to lose by speaking the truth.

  57. @Ron Unz

    Ron said

    “how can they have possibly been aware of the outbreak before anyone in China”

    The ABC News story also says:

    “Following the report’s release, other intelligence community bulletins began circulating through confidential channels across the government around Thanksgiving, the sources said. Those analyses said China’s leadership knew the epidemic was out of control even as it kept such crucial information from foreign governments and public health agencies.”

    So the ABC narrative is that the Chinese government knew but was hiding it, at the end of November. The story also says that the original report drew on satellite data. The story is nonsense.

  58. @Achmed E. Newman

    What makes you think that those Wuhan officials weren’t covering up for what was already happening?

    Excellent observation. I was going to write a comment with that same question, but for some reason I missed the opportunity, and I’m glad someone asked it.

  59. sb says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    You really let yourself down with this “Cranberra ” thing of yours .
    While you’re there maybe you really should also look up some info on Martin Bryant
    I’m sure you mean well -I had the impression that you were something of a cheerleader for Australia

  60. @Daniel H

    OT to this post

    That is not off-topic at all. You point out the extreme competence and efficiency of the Chinese government. That should make them extremely competent and efficient enemies or rivals. Which would make Derbyshire’s point even more acute.

    • Replies: @Daniel H
  61. MTMT123 says:

    [Is Another Tiananmen Square Coming?] – incredible this gordon “china collapse” chang wannabe john derbyshire chappie still believes in this tiananmen sq BS which has been debunked a zillion times over … well that how credible this guy is …

    a little suggestion to this john, OZ, sweden, cotton, hawley, trump, schummer etc etc – boycott all things china and have a good life …

  62. Chinaman says:
    @Ron Unz

    It is really disappointing to see John sell his intellectual integrity to fall in line. I guess even a honest man needs to make a living. I wonder what his Chinese wife think of this mindless rant.

    very uncharacteristic of him.

    Can’t believe he even showed support for Tom Cotton. Even the CCP didn’t force him to study Marx or Chinese history when he was in China.

    It is insane that some white people think they can stop people from studying what they want.

    It is doable though. My suggestion would be to shut down all the universities and libraries in America and make books and academic journals classified and distributed by the CIA and Pentagon.

  63. Chinaman says:

    I think it is time the Chinese conduct some nuke testing in their backyard to remind the crazies of MAD and to bring them back to reality.

    I am talking about John’s wife.

    Time to take out the trash, John.

  64. Chinaman says:

    If street demonstrations start up again as the lockdown loosens, I’m guessing there will be some serious repression in Hong Kong, perhaps a repeat of Tiananmen Square 1989 with tanks in the streets.

    Oh please. The PLA don’t have tanks in HK. I live here and born and bred here.

    The PLA were indeed mobilised once during the protest…to remove roadblocks setup by the protesters or should I say insurgents supported by the CIA.

    I pray everyday for a brutal crackdown of the protests with live bullets and tanks so that my 3 kids can go back to school and that I do not have to live in fear of being attacked on the streets by the black clad terrorist who called themselves protestors. You should come down to support the protestors.

    • Replies: @Curmudgeon
  65. Realist says:
    @anonymous

    Mr. Derbyshire’s working hard to show Chinadidit love for his Uncle Sam.

    S0meone told Derbyshire if he didn’t kiss Uncle Sam’s ass they would send him back.

    • Troll: Wizard of Oz
    • Replies: @Seraphim
  66. Realist says:

    The Chinese Communist Party is a crime syndicate, a clique of amoral gangsters, ready to do anything at all—lie, steal, torture, murder—to preserve their own power and privilege.

    The US Deep State is a crime syndicate, a clique of amoral gangsters, ready to do anything at all—lie, steal, torture, murder—to preserve their own power and privilege.

    FIFY

    Derbyshire is using projection…the US is the most belligerent, war mongering hegemon on the planet.

  67. Lot says:

    Derb, you summoned the Chinabots!

    Fine work, and God bless the fine nations of Australia amd America!

  68. @Achmed E. Newman

    What makes you think that those Wuhan officials weren’t covering up for what was already happening?

    What makes you think the US hasn’t played a role in this? Is it a co-incidence that Fort Detrick was shut down by the CDC for flagrant safety breaches. Is it a impossible the US military, which has 25 Level 3 and 4 bio “research” labs in countries around the world didn’t play a part?. It you aren’t interested bio weapons, why do you need so many Level 3 and 4 labs out of the country? Is it a co-incidence that Avian flu hit only Chinese poultry? Is it a co-incidence that African Swine Flu jumped thousands of miles to infect Chinese (and Russian) pork? Is it co-incidence that the outbreaks were near the borders of countries where the US military has their labs?

    As for honest, how honest has the US [or any other (((Western liberal democracy)))] been with their role in Syria, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Ukraine, Venezuela and a dozen other countries?
    As many people have pointed out for decades, the problem with Americans is their inability to see or understand themselves as others see them. The enormous good will generated immediate post WWII has been squandered over the last 40+ years, by the psychopaths who have seized control.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  69. Anon[287] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The classic “I’m no rayciss I like them China people I just don’t like their gubmint”. That’s why you heartily jump on the agree button on Chinese put downs. Classic ones include 1) Chinese make cheap products 2) Chinese eat weird stuff and 3) Chinese are dirty.

    I’ll provide a brief refutation of these points. 1) the Chinese make things for every price point. If you focus only on the cheap stuff that’s what you’ll see. Your precious Apple makes a lot their stuff in China in case you didn’t notice. 2) Americans eat possums, muskrats, etc. High end restaurants offer offal but no that’s not considered gross. Only when the Chinese eat it. 3). Yes China was/is dirty but they are trying to improve. See any tier 1 Chinese city.

    The problem with you alt-rights and alt-right-lites is that you don’t possess self introspection (always someone else’s fault), sense of history (long term history) or anthropology (truly studying how a country arrived at a certain point). If you did maybe you’ll have a bit of understanding and compassion.

    Oh cute that you keep calling it WuFlu. Perhaps we should start calling H1N1 the American Swine Flu.

    • Replies: @Pericles
  70. @Chinaman

    You left out the “repeat of Tiananmen Square 1989” bit. I recall reading an article, probably 20 years ago, by a journalist who was there. He claimed the (((Western))) narrative never happened.
    https://archives.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_myth_of_tiananmen.php

  71. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Curmudgeon

    Achmed admitted (amidst another word dump of sophomoric vanity) that he hasn’t found time to read our host’s article about these points, thus he doesn’t have to argue them.

  72. Anonymous[676] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ann Nonny Mouse

    Read the book The Falcon and the Snowman. Christopher Boyce, an American employee of TRW who worked in the “Black Vault” handling top-secret encrypted messages from operations overseas, decided to give secrets to the Soviets after reading some CIA communications. From Wikipedia:

    Boyce claims that he began getting misrouted cables from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) discussing the agency’s desire to depose the government of Prime Minister Gough Whitlam in Australia. Boyce claimed the CIA wanted Whitlam removed from office because he wanted to close U.S. military bases in Australia, including the vital Pine Gap secure communications facility, and withdraw Australian troops from Vietnam. For these reasons some claim that U.S. government pressure was a major factor in the dismissal of Whitlam as Prime Minister by the Governor General, Sir John Kerr, who according to Boyce, was referred to as “our man Kerr” by CIA officers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_John_Boyce

    While divulging secrets is never justified, especially to an enemy, it is outrageous for rogue elements in the CIA to manipulate and control the democratic process in friendly countries. This shouldn’t be the case from within and certainly not from without. I used to give these Western intel agencies the benefit of the doubt and assume that they knew stuff that I didn’t and are aware of dangers I have the luxury of not knowing about, but after learning of the FBI and intel agencies shenanigans with the Russian collusion farce in the past few years I have zero trust in Western intel agencies. Sad.

    • Replies: @Ann Nonny Mouse
  73. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    On what other website can you find an editor who will publicly call out one his columnists, like so?

    But now Trump and his FoxNews Neocons have now declared China to be the current Great Satan, and all the rightwingers are automatically following along, so well, Derb has to earn a living, doesn’t he?…

    Will Mr. Derbyshire respond directly, or Tuck something into a subsequent column, maybe next to a mathematical brain teaser?

    Your even older friend, “Mr. Paleoconservative,” and other of your columnists are also trafficking in the same craven Chinadiditry. I hope you get around to them, too. Maybe one of them will muster the guts to lay out their case and debate in good faith.

  74. Daniel H says:
    @Brás Cubas

    That should make them extremely competent and efficient enemies or rivals.

    Rivals? Yes, so what. Enemies? No.

    That certain white American who can’t breathe for lack of a world full of enemies.

    Whatever the Chinese covet of ours they seek to obtain by trade or a little bit of commercial skullduggery. For this you would allow the deep state to lead us into catastrophic wars.

  75. @Anonymous

    Have I missed something? Why do you say “rogue elements” within the CIA?

  76. FALPhil says:
    @obwandiyag

    You need to get out of your bubble more often. This is a term for Chinese Communists that has been around since about 1947.

  77. anon[303] • Disclaimer says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    ” how could our Defense Intelligence Agency have distributed a November report to all our top government officials and European allies describing a “cataclysmic” disease epidemic taking place in Wuhan OVER A MONTH before any Chinese officials had become aware of it…”

    Simple. The DIA monitors libertarians, who have people who’re often leaders in almost every world neighborhood or major agency, including DIA and the Chinese healthcare system.

    Long form: My gues is that the DIA were paying attention to the Chinese libertarian YahooGroups (with, as I recall, 50,000+ users). These were saying there were several problem strains in Wuhan 15 months ago. A seemingly very contagious, long-incubation strain was identified in November.

    Chinese libertarians were saying they were telling academics and media in the West to no avail (probably as it didn’t fit their anti-libertarian and far-left prejudices). Local officials in China were aware. They were as usual keeping central officials in the dark lest they be blamed for something.

    The Libertarian International was advising libertarians to social distance, wear masks, and check their prep/stock investments January 1st. They also cautioned that the data from China was likely garbage but it was wise to take precautions. LIO senior Libertarians are in every government and many universities in every country and they talk to each other. They talk to Congresscritters, DARPA, WHO, and CIA. They were aware South Korea was the only country with a good protocol given they had changed many things after using libertarian-method management consultants.

    The Chinese libertarians blamed re-use of materials driven by socialist practices in hospitals and wet markets. These in part came from bio-labs as likely creating the virus mutations. Their evidence: this was a long-standing problem in China. Countries like Italy with arrogant socialist healthcare were hard-hit. They repeated Chinese mistakes.

    Libertarian Poll Data on Facebook has regular data shared by the LIO curator. Understand this guy re-wrote the definition of socialism used by the CCP to more libertarian specifications. This was while he was working with Reagan to end the Cold War. My read is it has been days to months ahead on COVID information. It goes from there to the libertarian Tom-Toms and semi-libertarian groups like Lew Rockwell. For me it’s a key source. In general I would say that whatever the media is telling you about libertarian actions, the opposite is true. The libertarian COVID transparency protests are about white alt-righters, they say. I attended the one in Hawaii, and it fits other information from libertarians there that protests are filled with progressives and people of color with no other outlet. There’re no libertarians in pandemics was the big meme in March. Translation: libertarian methods are doing well and as usual they’re the only ones with an inkling on what is really going on.

    One insight I got from the Chinese libertarians is that the Red Army opposes the social market libertarianizing of the CCP. Government pronouncements just aren’t that monolithic except that they hate being embarrassed.

    I think the biggest question was why the surprise shutdown by YahooGroups. It didn’t help. The extremists in Governments are trying to gum up citizens communicating with each other in emergencies. California was giving libertarians who use shortwave grief in California a few months ago. They’re going after grandmas who start libertarian-inspired food pantries. Look at how they shut down UNZ (with its reputation of actionable data from its commenters ) on social media.

    I wouldn’t be surprised of more-than-usual US bureaucracy hanky-panky on this one. The Chinese just seem able to shoot themselves in the foot without US help.

    • Replies: @AKAHorace
  78. Joshua77 says: • Website
    @Ron Unz

    It’s not a global thing Ron.

    Only five nations are being hit hard with deaths (for varying reasons, wuflu, negligence, murder).

    These same five nations are also being hardest hit with forced quarantine, life has become tortuous.

    Meanwhile, Japan, Sweden and most other nations are unaffected.

    These five nations all have something in common. And they were warned long ago that they would be hit hard for their errors.

    Any guesses?

    • Replies: @Peripatetic Commenter
  79. @unit472

    Now in Wuhan we got a virus found in horseshoe bat feces, not indigenous to the region nor sold in the Wuham ‘wet’ market but of the very type being studied at Wuhan virology labs. We can get stuck on stupid or see the obvious vector. The virus escaped from the lab late last year and began circulating in the population.

    Ahhh, yes. Another “just so” story.

  80. @Ron Unz

    An other interesting aspect to this whole story is why was Fauci’s group giving the Wuhan Virology lab millions of dollars to do Gain of Function work on Corona Viruses?

    https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741

    See this video as well, the important stuff starts around the 6 minute mark:

    I am not saying that the Evil Deep State used that to slip them the really nasty stuff, but that is one possibility.

  81. Uomiem says:
    @unit472

    How can see a outbreak live?

    Are you referring to the Chinese dropping dead?

    How does a virus kill people simultaneously?

    Can you stop listening to Fox News?

    Please?

  82. neutral says:

    Don’t understand why he hates the Chinese so much, he has half breed Chinese children after all.

  83. @unit472

    A better analogy is the soviet union and chernobyl.

    They are virtually identical situations, from a govt/society response point of view.

  84. @Ron Unz

    Because the CIA has spies/agents inside china’s military establishment in general, and (quite probably) in the Wuhan virology facility in particular.

    The CIA agents reported the (accidental) outbreak in november to their superiors, as did the Chinese virologists, likely at the same time, but both governments ignored, downplayed, and suppressed the reports, attempting to hide the issue.

    The situation is very much like Chernobyl.

  85. @Ron Unz

    “However, now word has officially come down that China is the Great Satan and must be denounced by all rightwingers”

    Dislike of china is quite bipartisan at the moment.

    This is when things can get out of hand, domestically and internationally.

  86. @Joshua77

    It does not seem to be true that Sweden is not being affected.

    Do you have up-to-date numbers for Sweden?

  87. Pericles says:
    @Anon

    Anyways, as you stated, China shutdown when there were only a dozen confirmed cases and a minuscule number of fatalities. How did China determine the deadliness of the disease so rapidly?

    We know Wuhan has a centre of virology that studies corona-viruses from all over the world. If I understand correctly, that’s for example where Dr Fauci outsourced his virus-handling. It’s possible this center also might be handling some weaponized material. Whether that’s true or not, I assume this center is why the Chinese reacted so strongly.

    It was interesting that all Westerners around were immediately evacuated back to their home countries. That seems somewhat incautious by those countries.

    I’m still curious about whether Corona-chan was extra effective against ACE2 receptors or not. This seems to have dropped out of the discussion.

    Another open question is how the transmission to Italy actually happened. (And Iran.)

    Finally, we might speculate whether this has been a dress rehearsal. Test and optimize the contagiousness of some reasonably harmless virus that later can be engineered to deliver something more interesting.

  88. Pericles says:
    @Anon

    The problem with you alt-rights and alt-right-lites is that

    Ho-hum. Enjoy polishing your credentials, anon. And anthropology, eh? I take it you’re a Boaz-man then. Most amusing.

  89. @Ron Unz

    Following the report’s release, other intelligence community bulletins began circulating through confidential channels across the government around Thanksgiving, the sources said. Those analyses said China’s leadership knew the epidemic was out of control even as it kept such crucial information from foreign governments and public health agencies.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelligence-report-warned-coronavirus-crisis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  90. Corvinus says:
    @Ron Unz

    This… (Hat Tip –> One Deplorable DT)

    The only evidence Ron Unz has for this theory is a story by ABC News that claims “four sources”, and another story by the Israeli Times that mentions a story on Israeli TV but fails to mention anything about their source(s). There’s a line in the Israeli Times story that implies the Israeli TV report was independent of ABC News, but it doesn’t actually confirm this. For all we know the TV report was just a rehash of the ABC News report.

    This is the equivalent of “dude, just trust me bro” and “my dad works for Nintendo” on 4chan. Yet he has the audacity to criticize someone else for basing their beliefs on Fox News? Oh wait, the poster he replied to never even mentioned Fox News. Not in the post Ron replied to, and not in any subsequent posts. So “Fox News” was merely an ad hominem thrown by a man oblivious to the irony of what he was doing.

    Sorry, this wasn’t a bitch slap. It was a stumble by Ron. And the claimed November report is neither fact nor incontrovertible. At this point it barely ranks as clickbait.

    Run Unz has written a lot of words explaining why he thinks coronavirus as a U.S. bioweapon attack makes sense. He has some decent speculation in that piece. But absent actual evidence it is just speculation. I could write internally consistent speculation that it was a Russian attack, an Israeli attack, or an attack by Little Green Men. But being internally consistent doesn’t make any of those scenarios fact.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
    , @anonymous
  91. Ron Unz says:
    @Stebbing Heuer

    Ha, ha, ha… You’ve correctly focused on an *extremely* important story, but gotten the implications entirely backwards…

    All Western media accounts agree that local Chinese officials only first became aware of the mysterious new illness in late December, and weren’t convinced of human-to-human transmission until early January. The first known victim died in mid-January and around the same time, the genome of the virus was mapped provided to the world.

    But as the ABC News story you link correctly notes, our DIA had distributed a secret intelligence report back in November described a “cataclysmic” disease outbreak in Wuhan, over a month before anyone in China was aware of it. Unless the DIA has developed “procognitive technology,” there’s only one other obvious explanation.

    I discussed the whole matter at considerable length in my recent article, with some of the key paragraphs excerpted in the later Announcement:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-our-coronavirus-catastrophe-as-biowarfare-blowback/

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/facebook-bans-the-unz-review/

    I have the vague impression that you’re just some sort of fanatic Neocon-activist-type. But by focusing attention on the ABC News story, a particularly dim one…

    • Replies: @Jason y
    , @Stebbing Heuer
  92. Ron Unz says:
    @Corvinus

    Well, I don’t know who “One Deplorable DT” happens to be, but his argument is pretty ridiculous…

    ABC News cited *four* separate US intelligence sources on the existence of the November DIA report in their story. I suppose it’s possible that it’s all fictional, but offhand that carries quite a bit of weight with me.

    Top Pentagon officials refused to comment but a spokesman distributed a statement saying “Nope, it never existed.” That strikes me as a rather weak denial.

    Then a few days later Israeli TV reported that various elements of the Israeli government had indeed received the report, which they used for contingency planning purposes and which had also been distributed to NATO officials.

    So we have leading mainstream media outlets in two separate countries citing at least five separate intelligence sources describing the November DIA report and who received it.

    Unless you believe that everyone was just independently hallucinating, it seems very likely that the report did indeed exist.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    , @Anon
  93. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    A123, Bragadocious, Buchanan, Derbyshire, jsinton, Kersey, Lot, Malkin, Mercer, Ozymandis, Wally … and Corvinus is Exceptional!, too.

    Everybody’s doing the Chinadidit.

  94. Corvinus says:
    @Ron Unz

    “ABC News cited *four* separate US intelligence sources on the existence of the November DIA report in their story.”

    I keep hearing that we are not to trust the mainstream media. So now you want your readers to take seriously their reporting?

    “Then a few days later Israeli TV…”

    I keep hearing that we are not to trust the Jews. So now you want your readers to believe them?

    “I suppose it’s possible that it’s all fictional, but offhand that carries quite a bit of weight with me.”

    Right, for YOU.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  95. Anon[223] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Ron,
    I wouldn’t take the ABC news report at face value. Essentially, most of the Federal Government despises Trump, and want an excuse to make him look bad. Stating that the coronavirus was known since November would make Trump look bad since he didn’t do anything(though he does look bad…). This the same organization that states continuously that Trump had allied with Russia and that he had a hooker pee on him in a Russian hotel.

    Anyways, your claim of Israel is not that sound. Essentially, if that report is true, and that paper was distributed to all of the NATO countries, then this revelation of Israel makes even less sense. Israel isn’t a part of NATO, and is the most secretive Neo-Con state, with their government carrying our routine assassination and sabotage. You are saying that this country, of all the countries that the report was distributed towards, revealed this report. Turkey didn’t leak this, despite their sabotaging of their troops by Donald Trump? Other NATO goverments with incompetent agencies didn’t leak this? What are the odds that the most competent saboteur of any country would leak a report implicating the US government, and not the ones that actively disdain the US(Turkey)?

    Quite frankly Ron, I agree with your analysis of the competence of the US vs China, but you just strike me as one of those silly “Doomers”, who are always predicting the end of the US. For example, you are always claiming that the US dollar is fragile will soon collapse, with American society along with it. Yet, since the coronavirus, which hit the US badly, the US dollar has strengthened vis-a-vis other currencies, especially the Chinese Yuan. I wonder if this time you will be right, but I doubt it.
    Your credibility is decreasing here.

  96. Jason y says:
    @Ron Unz

    Assuming any of this happened and such a document circulated in November, the simplest explanation by far is that the DIA had a source in the Wuhan research laboratory that notified them when Covid-19 leaked.

    Lab personnel may have been aware of the leak well before it became a significant enough problem for local health officials to take notice.

  97. AKAHorace says:
    @anon

    The first time I read this I thought you were talking about “Librarians“. I have to stop
    drinking when I read this site.

  98. Ron Unz says:
    @Corvinus

    I keep hearing that we are not to trust the mainstream media. So now you want your readers to take seriously their reporting?

    You’re just being silly. As I’ve mentioned on many occasions, for decades I’ve spent a couple of hours every morning carefully reading the NYT, WSJ, and other newspapers. Why would I do that if they weren’t the best source of factual information? Obviously, you have to treat MSM reporting carefully, and especially separate the simple factual statements from the implications or analysis. But if ABC News says four separate intelligence sources told them about that November DIA report, I’d say it’s pretty likely that the report exists. After all, there’s no evidence on the other side, except the weakest sort of pro forma denial.

    Anyway, even without the November DIA report, there was already a great deal of evidence suggesting that the Coronavirus outbreak was an American biowarfare attack against China (and Iran). For example, here are a couple of paragraphs from my long article:

    As the coronavirus gradually began to spread beyond China’s own borders, another development occurred that greatly multiplied my suspicions. Most of these early cases had occurred exactly where one might expect, among the East Asian countries bordering China. But by late February Iran had become the second epicenter of the global outbreak. Even more surprisingly, its political elites had been especially hard-hit, with a full 10% of the entire Iranian parliament soon infected and at least a dozen of its officials and politicians dying of the disease, including some who were quite senior. Indeed, Neocon activists on Twitter began gleefully noting that their hatred Iranian enemies were now dropping like flies.

    Let us consider the implications of these facts. Across the entire world the only political elites that have yet suffered any significant human losses have been those of Iran, and they died at a very early stage, before significant outbreaks had even occurred almost anywhere else in the world outside China. Thus, we have America assassinating Iran’s top military commander on Jan. 2nd and then just a few weeks later large portions of the Iranian ruling elites became infected by a mysterious and deadly new virus, with many of them soon dying as a consequence. Could any rational individual possibly regard this as a mere coincidence?

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-our-coronavirus-catastrophe-as-biowarfare-blowback/

    And that retired forty-year veteran of American biodefense research had exactly the same opinion:

    https://www.unz.com/article/was-coronavirus-a-biowarfare-attack-against-china/

    Frankly, the November DIA report merely amounted to the “smoking gun”

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  99. Corvinus says:
    @Ron Unz

    “You’re just being silly. As I’ve mentioned on many occasions, for decades I’ve spent a couple of hours every morning carefully reading the NYT, WSJ, and other newspapers. Why would I do that if they weren’t the best source of factual information?”

    Are you being purposely obtuse here? You do comprehend that a number of readers here believe that those sources you listed are FAKE NEWS. As in we ought not to, and simply cannot trust, a word they say. How do you respond to their repeated accusation that ALL of the mainstream media reporting are lies? Here is Anon 223 stating that we ought NOT to trust ABC News. How do you address his point?

    I wouldn’t take the ABC news report at face value. Essentially, most of the Federal Government despises Trump, and want an excuse to make him look bad. Stating that the coronavirus was known since November would make Trump look bad since he didn’t do anything(though he does look bad…). This the same organization that states continuously that Trump had allied with Russia and that he had a hooker pee on him in a Russian hotel.

    Furthermore, if we go by your assumption you “carefully read” the several MSM publications, then would it not be probable that other people also carry out this same course of action? Would not those people be properly equipped then to counter your line of thinking if they underwent a similar process such as yourself? Or do you possess a certain skill that they ultimately lack?

    “Obviously, you have to treat MSM reporting carefully…”

    For what reasons?

    “and especially separate the simple factual statements from the implications or analysis.”

    So basically, those stories which support your predisposed narrative, you take stock in, correct? For all other stories that go against your truth grain, vigorously question their veracity, at best, or totally discard, at worst, right?

    “But if ABC News says four separate intelligence sources told them about that November DIA report, I’d say it’s pretty likely that the report exists.”

    Remember, one of our top intel agency recently ruled out the “manmade” theory of coronavirus origins. There “evidence of the other side”. Their findings were reported by the MSM. So should we NOT trust neither the agency nor the MSM in this particular case?

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/30/intel-agency-rules-out-coronavirus-man-made-origin-theory-226269

    Furthermore, you are using YOUR OWN crafted material to back up a claim, one that is specious. Essentially, you are begging the question. Just because Iranian elites have been ravaged by Covid-19 does not mean it is the result of an American bioweapon. Mr. Sailer reported that various American, Mexican, and European elites who were at ski lodges also hit hard by the virus. Would that suggest to you these group were also targeted by American intelligence agencies?

    “Frankly, the November DIA report merely amounted to the “smoking gun”…”

    So you are relying on the strongest kind of circumstantial evidence, as opposed to direct evidence, as reported by the MSM, who by numerous accounts by posters here cannot and should not ever be trusted? Wow, just wow.

  100. @anonymous

    Why doesn’t the sniveling little creature behind the anonymous [245] say something of substance rather than inaccurate statements intended as sneers?

    Do you speak Chinese? (John Derbyshire does).What do you know about China? What do you know of the traditions and conventions of diplomacy? Do you have standing to contradict Australia’s longest serving Foreign Minister on that subject?

    • Replies: @anonymous
  101. Ron Unz says:
    @Corvinus

    Ha, ha… I guess you’ve returned to your old trollish ways.

    I always carefully read the elite MSM every day, but if various commenters don’t, you should argue with them.

    If ABC News cites four separate intelligence sources that a government report *existed*, well it probably did. That’s a simple and objective factual claim, having nothing to do with whether the report was correct or not.

    Similarly, if the MSM reports that US Intelligence claimed the virus was not man-made, I tend to believe their factual statement about what US Intelligence *claimed.* But that doesn’t indicate whether or not the claim was correct.

    And you’re just throwing some unrelated smoke regarding skiers to confuse the devastating viral infections that hit the Iranian political elites right after the US had assassinated one of Iran’s top leaders.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  102. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wizard of Oz

    Whoa! We’ve found the droll troll’s hot button with a comment about Mr. Derbyshire’s Chinadiditry, using his own words.

  103. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    Hey, what happened to the Tom Parsons (1984) act? Your breaking character to show emotion is exceptional, too.

    flak / target

    • Troll: Corvinus
  104. @Corvinus

    Just because Iranian elites have been ravaged by Covid-19 does not mean it is the result of an American bioweapon. Mr. Sailer reported that various American, Mexican, and European elites who were at ski lodges also hit hard by the virus. Would that suggest to you these group were also targeted by American intelligence agencies?

    Iran was the target. The others were the blowback. And you forgot to mention Brazil, where practically the entirely top echelon of government was infected after a visit to the U.S. (rumor has it that the president himself was infected, but hid the fact). And ours is an *extremely* pro-American and pro-Israel government. So it couldn’t have been the target. Which makes it the blowback. And Ron Unz, in the reply, noted that the infections in Iran’s high circles were “devastating”; in Brazil no one got seriously ill that I know of. This is important too, in order to differentiate the targets from the blowback: how “devastating” the infections were.

  105. Corvinus says:
    @Ron Unz

    “Ha, ha… I guess you’ve returned to your old trollish ways.”

    Go right ahead and embarrass yourself further. I am daily commenter here, and put forth rhetoric or dialectic responses when the situation calls for it.

    “I always carefully read the elite MSM every day…”

    As do other people. So would they not be properly equipped then to counter your line of thinking if they underwent a similar process such as yourself? Or do you possess a certain skill that they ultimately lack?

    “but if various commenters don’t, you should argue with them.”

    You can’t have your cake and eat it, too. On one hand, you tacitly encourage your readers to peddle this “Fake News” mantra. On the other hand, you latch on to MSM stories that seemingly support your conclusions.

    So it is incumbent upon yourself to clarify your position rather than provide plausible deniability. I would argue that CNN, Fox News, ABC News, and others are reliable sources. Certainly one may question their overall bias, but for people to outright dismiss them, at worst, or to remain deeply and continually suspicious of their factual reporting, at best, only serves to make the general public intellectually sterile. Would you agree or disagree? Why?

    In other words, does not one have to carefully explain how and why the reporting is misleading or other than factual, rather than repeatedly label that news source as a purveyor of “Fake News”? Show your work, please.

    “If ABC News cites four separate intelligence sources that a government report *existed*, well it probably did. That’s a simple and objective factual claim, having nothing to do with whether the report was correct or not.”

    I’m not arguing to the contrary. The report “existed”. Whether or not that report constitutes a “smoking gun” in an entirely different matter.

    “Similarly, if the MSM reports that US Intelligence claimed the virus was not man-made, I tend to believe their factual statement about what US Intelligence *claimed.*”

    But not the details of the report of U.S. intelligence, correct? So could not a reasonable person say that its contents are exactly what U.S. intelligence *claimed*? And I thought that ANYTHING that comes from U.S. intelligence ought not to be trusted. Because Deep State.

    “And you’re just throwing some unrelated smoke regarding skiers to confuse the devastating viral infections that hit the Iranian political elites right after the US had assassinated one of Iran’s top leaders.”

    No smoke at all. Mr. Sailer was merely NOTICING how elites were impacted by Covid-19. Of course, there is an ASSUMPTION on your part that Iranian politicians were the subject of an American bio-ware attack.

    Source –> https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-government-coronavirus-may-leaked-chinese-laboratory-covid-2020-4

    Richard Ebright, a professor at Rutgers University’s Waksman Institute of Microbiology, stated that:

    “Virus collection, culture, isolation, or animal infection at BSL-2 [moderate biosafety level] with a virus having the transmission characteristics of the outbreak virus would pose substantial risk of infection of a lab worker, and from the lab worker, the public,” he said. He went on to say the evidence available left “a basis to rule out a lab construct, but no basis to rule out a lab accident.” In other words, while the virus was not believed to have been created in a lab, it could have been studied in one and released in an accident.

    Source –> https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources

    According to Secretary of Defense Mark Esper, “Even today, I see them withholding information and I think we need to do more to continue to press them [China] to share”. Esper added that he wouldn’t speak to “intelligence reporting,” but that “most people believe it began naturally — it was organic, if you will. I think in due course, once we get through the pandemic we’re in right now, there’ll be time to look back and really ascertain what happened and make sure we have a better understanding so we can prevent this in the future.” Sources point to the structure of the virus, in saying the genome mapping specifically shows it was not genetically altered.

    So could not a person, like yourself, “carefully read the elite MSM every day” and come to the conclusion that Covid-19 is NOT a bioweapon?

    • Replies: @anonymous
  106. anonymous[245] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    You seem to have checked all the authoritative sources. What’s Colin Powell had to say?

    Exceptional! claims call for Exceptional! proof. Time for the test tubes.

  107. Seraphim says:
    @Ann Nonny Mouse

    ScoMo joined the Trumpty Dumpty because he was illumined by Mr. Drabyshire’s revelation that the ‘ethnomasochist white Australia’ is in danger to become a Chinese colony! Australians are in danger even to marry Chinese women! Oh, boy.

  108. Seraphim says:
    @Realist

    This is the realist explanation and rest assured that you are not the only realist around.

  109. Ragno says:

    You learn something new every day at this place. For instance, as regards the current global pandemic, the answer to the burning question cui bono? turns out to be “I’ll tell you who didn’t – China!” Simple. Direct. Damned refreshing!

    Also, while the normal dumbass Amurrican, drunk on malt liquor and IMAX potboilers, might wonder why a world-class Dark Eminence like the US, being fully aware of the contagion they’d bioengineered and loosed upon the innocent Chinese, did NOT take far more stringent measures, weeks if not months earlier than it eventually did, against the virus’ almost-certain boomeranging back on us….well, after hobnobbing through threads like this one, the answer could not be more obvious: because hamfistedly shutting down civil liberties while committing national and economic suicide was the perfect way to scatter the breadcrumb trail of culpability, and preserve precious deniability.

    So, please, let’s hear no more about China’s supposed long “documented” history of being ground zero for any number of contagions-cum-global-epidemics, which is the kind of “fact” that only Fox News mouth-breathers would be caught dead citing.

    But as far as your recent banning on Big Tech’s flagship platforms…well, no mystery there. Your recent posting of verboten texts concerning World Wars I & II, and in particular your in-depth historical revisionism regarding how “anti-Semitism” is generally rooted in Jewish behavior and (well-hidden) villainy, has unfortunately given your ideological enemies the all-clear to lower the boom/cut your mic/ remove your platform/muffle the sound of your voice any time they wish, on any pretext whatsoever, making sure to refer to you, your admirers and your scholarship (that last in quotes, of course) with the kind of contemptuous pejoratives you’re lately directing towards members of your own forum (who likely have always supported you – but not on this one topic, on which they disagree). And so it goes.

    Be well, Ron. And wash your hands, of course.

  110. Seraphim says:
    @animalogic

    People forget that Alexander Downer was the Minister for Foreign Affaires in 2001, when Australia joined the ‘war on terror’ after the then PM was a ‘surprise witness’ of 9/11 attack, just next day after he conferred with Dubya.

  111. @Ron Unz

    So your response to information that challenges your favoured hypothesis is to dismiss it with an argument that doesn’t make sense, and then into the bargain you also badmouth the bearer of this unwelcome news.

    Classic knee-jerk Belief Preservation.

    A ‘particularly dim’ ‘Neocon-activist type’? No, just a reader who supports what you do here at the site.

    I’m disappointed. I really did expect better from you Ron.

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