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From the New York Times news section, an article by their epidemics reporter Donald G. McNeil Jr.

… Isolate the infected

As soon as possible, experts said, the United States must develop an alternative to the practice of isolating infected people at home, as it endangers families. In China, 75 to 80 percent of all transmission occurred in family clusters.

That pattern has already repeated itself here. Seven members of a large family in New Jersey were infected; four have already died. After a lawyer in New Rochelle, N.Y., fell ill, his wife, son and daughter all tested positive.

Instead of a policy that advises the infected to remain at home, as the Centers for Disease and Prevention now does, experts said cities should establish facilities where the mildly and moderately ill can recuperate under the care and observation of nurses.

Wuhan created many such centers, called “temporary hospitals,” each a cross between a dormitory and a first-aid clinic. They had cots and oxygen tanks, but not the advanced machines used in intensive care units.

American cities now have many spaces that could serve as isolation wards. Already New York is considering turning the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center into a temporary hospital, along with the Westchester Convention Center and two university campuses.

Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida said on Saturday that state officials were also considering opening isolation wards.

In China, said Dr. Bruce Aylward, leader of the World Health Organization’s observer team there, people originally resisted leaving home or seeing their children go into isolation centers with no visiting rights — just as Americans no doubt would.

In China, they came to accept it.

“They realized they were keeping their families safe,” he said. “Also, isolation is really lonely. It’s psychologically difficult. Here, they were all together with other people in the same boat. They supported each other.”

Well, maybe …

I’m trying to think through how you clean homes where one person was infected … It sounds difficult.

 
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  1. nytimes.com
    Spit On, Yelled At, Attacked: Chinese-Americans Fear for Their Safety

    As bigots blame them for the coronavirus and President Trump labels it the “Chinese virus,” many Chinese-Americans say they are terrified of what …

    I didn’t click on it. I don’t click on NYT stories. But let me guess, it’s a bunch of self-reported (read:invented) anecdotes by poor oppressed asians. And it means what you think it means: Orange Man Bad, and anyone who disagrees is a Nazi. Am I close?

    PS: How can all of the Deplorable Reprobates distinguish Chinese from other Asians??

    • Replies: @Whiskey
  2. Neoconned says:

    A nurse told me once that the homeless have high rates of TB because they sleep around each other and spend abnormal amounts of time together….

    I’m not saying this isn’t a solution but like ANY solution it has down sides….

  3. I guess by extension if someone tests positive, even with no symptoms, they should be immediately seized and placed in a plague ward.

    Trump nation will love that.

    Reminds me of the Scott Alexander post about the conference he went to where they urged that doctors spy on and monitor their schizophrenic patients to make sure they are taking their medicine. I think they actually implanting things in people to monitor them.

    • Replies: @Louis Renault
  4. Anon7 says:

    Re your mask up tweet –

    Told ya they’d go to masks! another previous post.

  5. Anon[665] • Disclaimer says:

    Greta Thunberg and her father may have Covid-19. They insisted on traveling around on trains, so if they have it, they likely spread it around quite a bit.

    • Replies: @william munny
  6. Haole says:

    Send your brother sister, wife or Kid to a government center? No thanks. I will take the chance with the virus. This is why we need the 2A.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Morton's toes
  7. charlie says:

    cleaning homes.

    Clean the bathroom with bleach. Wash the sheets. Leave everything else alone for 24 hours.

    This is not a norovirus. It degrades.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    , @unit472
  8. Ten dollars to the first person who can connect the Westport “Super-Spreader” party to New Rochelle.

    https://www.thechronicle.com.au/news/super-spreader-party-caused-40-fold-infection-spik/3980635/

    After a lawyer in New Rochelle, N.Y., fell ill, his wife, son and daughter all tested positive.

    LOL. Actually, most of the town was infected, but why pick nits?

  9. Anonymous[326] • Disclaimer says:

    None of us will ever get sick from this virus. No one in our family ever will. No one we personally know will be affected by it.

    But we’re all supposed to be very scared! For some reason, a few guys thought this was an opportunity to push some gung-ho World War II crap.

    I’m sorry but there was something dishonest about this whole thing.

  10. edgar says:

    Maybe time to do this at the state level. New York is out of control. Isolate their and quarantine the state: it appears that the infected fleeing the state are spreading it elsewhere.

  11. Elli says:

    Cleaning house: wait. Virus seems to die in one day on cardboard, maybe the same for other porous surfaces?, three days on hard surfaces.

    If I had a cruise ship to decon, I’d just leave it alone for ten days.

    When sick person is extracted, family gets gloves, masks, disinfectant, instructions. Close off sick person’s quarters or bag their stuff if that’s not possible, disinfect bathroom, kitchen, commonly touched surfaces.

    Humidify.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  12. I’m trying to think through how long the state can keep millions of Americans under soft house arrest before there is direct organized resistance…It sounds difficult.

    • Agree: bruce county
  13. epebble says:

    In an earlier era, this was the method to isolate people with another respiratory disease – tuberculosis. The facility was called a Sanatorium. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanatorium

    If we have these buildings still standing around, may be we can revive them and use them for Covid.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sanatoria_in_the_United_States

  14. vhrm says:

    a) this boiling the frog progressive reduction of civil liberties is like watching a movie. They’re now talking about putting people in camps. (you hint at it with your headline of “pull people from their homes”). It’s not that it’s an invalid approach, but for this severity of disease? and to what end, in the long term?

    b) Just general cleaning and laundering is likely fine.
    Maybe use an ozone generator for a while to speed the virus on its way on upholstery and carpets and hard to access surfaces. (they use them in mold / water damage remediation). But this virus isn’t thought to be THAT resilient in the environment.

  15. @charlie

    Leave everything else alone for 24 hours.

    This is not a norovirus. It degrades.

    Yes, it ‘degrades’–most things do. But why isn’t this [following] story being featured in the ‘prestige media’?

    Traces of new coronavirus were found on surfaces in cruise-ship cabins for as many as 17 days after passengers left, researchers said, though it wasn’t possible to determine whether they caused any infections.

    Researchers looked at the rooms of infected passengers aboard the Diamond Princess, both those who showed symptoms and those who didn’t, according to a study Monday in the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.

    And…for everyone ‘ordering out’…

    Food-service employees aboard the Diamond Princess hastened the spread of coronavirus on the stricken cruise ship, ultimately contributing to more than 700 cases, according to a government study.

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6911e2.htm

    • Replies: @Kaz
    , @Elli
    , @vhrm
    , @Twodees Partain
  16. @Obamahotep

    Please collect the guns with the infected, we’d hate to have anyone commit suicide.

  17. @Anon

    Maybe she was just starved for media attention.

    • Replies: @Paul Mendez
  18. I’m trying to think through how you clean homes where one person was infected … It sounds difficult.

    Do you clean your own house? Do you find it difficult?
    If yes, and yes, then yes, it is difficult.
    If yes, and no, then not quite, no, though it might take significantly more work.
    If no, then I imagine anything having to do with cleaning will sound difficult.
    And if it is true that this virus lasts for only up to three days on most surfaces, then it’s really no herculean task, as long as the source is removed.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  19. Kaz says:
    @Mr McKenna

    Traces of new coronavirus were found on surfaces in cruise-ship cabins for as many as 17 days after passengers left, researchers said, though it wasn’t possible to determine whether they caused any infections.

    Traces like fossils are traces of forgone animals..

    You can find traces of a ton of inert bacteria/viruses everywhere.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  20. @adreadline

    What this implies is that everybody needs order the gear now to disinfect their homes, such as masks, gloves, eye-protection, plastic bags to put stuff in, etc etc.

    • Replies: @unit472
    , @AnonAnon
    , @danand
  21. unit472 says:
    @charlie

    Maybe not. They are finding live coronavirus in cruise ship cabins 17 days after the passengers and crew were removed.

    Carnival, having no other use for its cruise ships for the next few months, has offered some of it ships for this purpose and many hotels would be happy to have the governments use them as quarantine centers rather than remain empty generating no revenue. They could be fumigated and ‘deep cleaned’ later even if the the hotel and cruise companies don’t offer their premier properties for this purpose.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
  22. @Kaz

    Can anybody weigh in on what “traces” mean? Our gene detection skills are extremely sensitive these days.

  23. Elli says:
    @Mr McKenna

    Traces of new coronavirus were found on surfaces in cruise-ship cabins for as many as 17 days after passengers left, researchers said, though it wasn’t possible to determine whether they caused any infections.

    Active infectious virus or RNA traces?

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  24. Whiskey says: • Website
    @Mr McKenna

    It’s true. Just that the attackers are … WorldStarHipHop devotees.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  25. unit472 says:
    @Steve Sailer

    I live in Florida so I have a large stock of plastic grocery bags. I put a few in my pocket when I leave the house to press the elevator buttons, open doors, etc. I was even using them to pick up food from drive thrus though the cashiers now wear gloves and use a plastic box to receive payment and place your order on a tray.

    I hang one from my gear ship lever to dispose of the used bags so I can conserve my supply of latex gloves.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  26. Michael S says:

    I don’t think this is necessarily a bad idea, provided that it is optional. I’m guessing many moms and dads would rather take the chance of getting sick than ship their kids off to some awful temporary government housing. And I have to wonder how long it would remain optional, with the kind of people we have in charge, and their predilection for splitting up stable families (illegal alien families, OTOH, must be preserved at all costs).

    Still, if I lived with a roommate, I’d be all over this idea. Also if I lived in a dense apartment building with sketchy ventilation. It’s one of those urban vs. rural things, like gun control. Terrible and barbaric idea for the low time preference farmers who were prepared for all of this months ahead, but maybe a good idea for the now-now-now city-dwelling sheep already packed into tiny spaces, many of whom probably don’t even have enough food to survive a 3-week quarantine.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  27. @unit472

    I wish I had a lot of the cheap free plastic bags you used to get at the grocery store.

  28. @Steve Sailer

    Think evolution of bacterial and viral genomes. Sequence the buggers and come up with something like a geneology tree (phylogeny).

  29. @Elli

    Wish they would (could?) say. A lot depends on it.

    Speaking of, dysentery is now said to be another early sign.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  30. Dr. Jim says:

    “where the mildly and moderately ill can recuperate under the care and observation of nurses”

    What nurses? They grow on trees, do they? They love to work without masks?

    We’ve been cutting back on bedside nurses FOR YEARS, as the academicians have taken over nursing schools. Did you know there is now a “direct entry” master’s track, where you can become a “nurse manager” if you have never given a bed bath or emptied a bedpan?

    There are no nurses coming to the rescue. Like everything else, we don’t do that anymore.

  31. Jack D says:
    @Elli

    Today there was a report that they found virus on a cruise ship 17 days after the last passenger left.

  32. @Whiskey

    Good point. Some of the tales might be ‘true’ after all. After all, this is how many of the ‘surge in anti-semitic attacks’ stories came about. The ones that weren’t committed by chosenites anyhow.

  33. @edgar

    I was totally thinking that ! They’re practically inviting such a logical conclusion and action. Have the national guards of the other surrounding states mobilize and set up border checkpoints….”for public safety outside of New York”

    Dems are just hoping this goes into November so they can claim election fraud or whatever.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
  34. @Steve Sailer

    They’ve banned them at the registers in NY/CT but most stores still have rolls and rolls of them around the produce section

  35. vhrm says:
    @Mr McKenna

    It IS being featured.

    It’s everywhere from People to Washington Post to

    https://wholefoodsmagazine.com/news/cdc-coronavirus-found-on-cruise-ship-surfaces-for-up-to-17-days/

    and in the CDC report the data is cited as being from ” (Takuya Yamagishi, National Institute of Infectious Diseases, personal communication, 2020). ”

    so not immediately traceable to a “methods” section.

  36. Anon[200] • Disclaimer says:

    They had better make sure to separate men, women and children. I can see lots of sexual assaults going on like after Katrina in New Orleans if they put everyone in the same stadium.

    • Replies: @Dissident
  37. @Haole

    Do NOT go to the hospital unless you want to die.

    (this was written by a doctor where I saw it but I am afraid I don’t have the proper citation handy.)

    • Replies: @Charon
  38. Between this mysterious virus and the creepy government overreach, this is the first time I’ve felt like I was living in a dystopian sci-fi story, instead of just reading one.

    We’re not quite at Harlan Ellison, Philip K Dick or Barry Malzberg levels yet, but we’re uneasily bordering on Robert Silverberg territory.

    • Replies: @Charon
    , @Carol
  39. Corvinus says:

    “I’m trying to think through how you clean homes where one person was infected … It sounds difficult.”

    Not at all difficult. In three weeks, Trump plans to open up the U.S. Business as usual. You will have people clamoring to fill all the jobs whose responsibility is to clean the residences infected by Covid-19. Great money making venture. Perhaps a post, Mr. Sailer, is in order regarding your NOTICING on Trump’s proposal that flies in the face of the CDC and other medical professionals.

    Then again, we should all just #DieForTheDow

    • Replies: @Paul Mendez
  40. @Steve Sailer

    Rat Bastard pols in Chicago force us to pay .07 per bag, some which goes to the People’s Republic of Chicago.

    Reusable grocery bags retain germs

    The (Palm Springs, Calif.) Desert Sun Published 3:55 p.m. ET Jan. 6, 2014 | Updated 4:06 p.m. ET Jan. 6, 2014

    PALM SPRINGS, Calif. — Jamie Norton considered himself an early adopter of reusable shopping bag, keeping them in the trunk of his car so they’re on hand whenever he stops for groceries.

    But washing the bags wasn’t part of the routine.

    “If it gets too dirty, I just toss it out,” Norton, 61, said as he walked out of Jensen’s grocery store here with one of his bags full of food. “I have never washed a reusable bag.”

    Research shows the vast majority of shoppers are like Norton. A 2011 study from scientists at the University of Arizona and Loma Linda University found only 3% of shoppers with multi-use bags said they regularly washed them. The same study found bacteria in 99% of bags tested; half carried coliform bacteria while 8% carried E. coli, an indicator of fecal contamination.

    “I classify them as pretty dirty things, like the bottom of your shoes,” said Ryan Sinclair of the Loma Linda University School of Public Health, a co-author of the study.

    He is finalizing another study he hopes to publish soon looking at how pathogens spread through grocery stores with the help of reusable bags. The study, conducted at a central California grocery store in early 2013, involved spraying bags with a bacteria not harmful to humans but transported in a similar way to norovirus, a leading cause of gastrointestinal disease linked to more than 19 million illnesses each year in the United States.

    The tracer bacteria was detected in high concentrations on shopping carts, at the checkout counter and on food items shoppers had touched but kept on the shelf.

    Sinclair said the contamination cycle often began right after shoppers entered the store and placed their bags in the bottom or the baby carrier of a shopping cart, two places notorious for germs.

    “I classify them as pretty dirty things, like the bottom of your shoes.”
    Ryan Sinclair, Loma Linda University

    “The baby carrier portion of the grocery cart is the most contaminated public surface you ever come in contact with,” he said.

    Reusable bags, often given away as event swag or sold for around $1 at grocery stores, are becoming more common, and 69 local bans on the thin, single-use plastic alternatives, have passed in California.

    But Sinclair doesn’t think habits about washing the bags are changing much in the years since the study he helped create was published.

    The researchers found that bacteria thrived and multiplied on bags stored in the trunks of cars and that machine or hand washing reduced bacteria on bags by more than 99.9%. A separate study published in 2012 traced a norovirus outbreak among a girls’ soccer team from Oregon to a reusable bag stored in a hotel bathroom used by an ill team member.

    Norton, a Palm Springs resident, said the flimsy plastic bags come in handy, especially for cleaning up after his dog, but he supports bans.

    “I really do think plastic bags are a blight,” he said.

    A proposed ban here would prohibit most stores from giving out thin plastic shopping bags and instead require them to charge 10 cents for a recycled paper bag. Plastic bags for meat, produce and takeout food still would be allowed, as would heavier plastic bags such as ones often given out at clothing retailers.

    A similar ban took effect in Los Angeles on New Year’s Day. San Franciso passed its ban in 2007, the first city in the nation to do so.

    For their study, Sinclair and other scientists collected bags from shoppers in California and Arizona, offering them a replacement bag or money as compensation and swabbed the bags for any contamination. Shoppers also were questioned about how often they use and wash their bags.

    Sinclair recommended that the bags be treated like the dirtiest laundry and washed in hot water with a detergent and disinfectant. He said he puts his own bags in the washer with socks and underwear, and that even the polyurethane bags can be washed five or six times before they start to fall apart.

    Putting the bags in the washing machine and dryer about once a week is a good strategy, Sinclair said. Washing with a spray cleaner and cloth isn’t effective, he said, because it tends to miss dirt deep in corners and creases.

    The study recommended more public awareness efforts about washing reusable bags and that manufacturers print laundering directions on the bags.

    Sinclair and other authors faced some criticism after the study was published because the American Chemical Council partially paid for the research. The trade organization has advocated against reusable shopping bags on behalf of its members who manufacture the thinner, petroleum-based plastic bags.

    Sinclair said he wasn’t aware of the association’s support until after the study was published and that the money doesn’t discount the finding or recommendations.

    “Personally, my recommendation is to use reusable bags, but just wash them. It’s not a big deal,” he said.

    At the grocery store, Sinclair recommends that shoppers use cleaning wipes if the store has them available for carts and that foods be washed before going into storage at home. Separate bags also should be used for meats and vegetables.

    Betsy Hammes of Palm Springs grabbed a shopping cart outside Jensen’s and placed her reusable bag in the bottom. She said she’s diligent about washing the bags with a spray cleaner and then throwing them away after a few washings.

    Before entering the store, Hammes pulled a disinfectant wipe from the dispenser and cleaned the shopping cart handle.

    “I always do that,” she said. “You never know who was using it before.”

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/01/06/reusable-grocery-bag-germs/4341739/

    • Thanks: Charon
  41. @william munny

    More like she’s just plain starved.

    I blame her vegan diet for her delayed puberty, gloomy outlook and overall crankiness. If she’d just eat a cheeseburger she’d feel a whole lot better about things.

  42. Jack D says:

    I saw another article saying that they had done something similar in Korea. They used dorms attached to training centers run by big Korean corps. such as Samsung. The US has lots of vacant college dorms now. Since everyone patient already had Chinese virus they didn’t need to worry about keeping them separate from each other. The patients were mostly younger people and didn’t need a lot of care (if they did they were taken to a real hospital). The main thing was to keep them out of circulation until they were no longer contagious.

    These things work in a mono-ethnic society. In a multi-cultural society, people complain if they are not getting Halal food, if hair products for black women are not available, if the administration of the facility is “racist” and so on – people are looking for systemic offense or favoritism and if they look hard enough they find it. And maybe your fellow “patients” steal your iPhone or refuse to give up their drug habits, etc. or there are some people who male but insist that they belong in the women’s dorm or vice versa. It wouldn’t go smoothly, not at all.

  43. @Corvinus

    Then again, we should all just #DieForTheDow

    Maybe we shouldn’t ALL die for the DOW, but a couple of million geriatrics with chronic health issues dying for the DOW seems like a good trade.

    What we’re doing now is ruining the lives of young people in order to save the lives of old people.

    (I’m 63, obese and drink too much, so I can say this)

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  44. AnonAnon says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Order now? I completed my panic buying two weeks before you even made your first post on coronavirus. There are plenty of articles on the web about what cleaners kill the virus. You’re supposed to keep the person isolated in another room and have them use their own bathroom if you can. Do you have wipes or cleaning sprays on hand? Bleach? Rubbing alcohol? Lysol? Also, if you’re doing social isolation correctly the chances of someone in your household getting it should be low. Wash your hands, wash your hands, wash your hands. As far as I can tell the best chances of getting it seem to be at the grocery stores since everyone is funneled there during the shut down. Our local Vons is limiting the number of people who can enter the store at one time. Not sure if this is true for other locations. Try ordering on line and picking it up in your car. We were able to snag an order slot from Pavillions last Friday but none so far this week. To avoid grocery stores, many restaurants are now selling kits of food basics – eggs, milk, meat, etc. Check the facebook pages of local restaurants. I know Norms is one of them.

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/disinfecting-your-home.html

    https://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registration/list-n-disinfectants-use-against-sars-cov-2

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  45. danand says:
    @Steve Sailer

    What this implies is that everybody needs order the gear now…

    Let’s not forget the GE Carescape R860, only two left on Ebay. Best to hurry before Cuomo pulls the trigger first:

    04E93D3C-291F-4FFB-8B42-351DA0181253

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Refurbished-GE-Carescape-R860-Ventillator/324003348648?hash=item4b701ac0a8:g:gXYAAOSwbohd6UZt

  46. Corvinus says:
    @Paul Mendez

    “Maybe we shouldn’t ALL die for the DOW, but a couple of million geriatrics with chronic health issues dying for the DOW seems like a good trade.”

    Except that is not your decision to make, right?

    “What we’re doing now is ruining the lives of young people in order to save the lives of old people.”

    We are saving the lives of EVERYONE.

    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/coronavirus-young-people-hospitalized-covid-19-chart

    • Agree: Dissident
    • Replies: @anon
    , @Paul Mendez
    , @Whiskey
  47. Alfa158 says:
    @Steve Sailer

    I order online rolls of the plastic bags you see in the produce section for bagging individual items, and use them for kitty litter disposal. They are pretty cheap.
    I am baffled why the government banned the bags you use to carry your groceries but still allow the produce section to have plastic bags.
    But then, California is a state that passes laws banning plastic straws and laws mandating that school kids can use whichever bathroom or locker room they identify with. I shouldn’t be expecting logic from deranged people.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
  48. Anonymous[567] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dr. Jim

    Nurses haven’t emptied bedpans for 60 years at least. It was always done by students and nurses aids anyway A lot of bedside nursing can be competently done by nurses aids. Maybe EMTs and paramedics can work in bedside care.

    Respiratory technicians run the ventilator and other respiratory machines. The students can just get to work early. The licensed vocational nurse is an 18 month or 2 year program. They can start to work before finishing.

  49. You Have to Pull Sick People Out of Their Homes

    This can be difficult at times.

    • LOL: Malla
  50. @Dr. Jim

    We can always import nurses from Kenya, such as this helpful fellow who went the extra mile and really plumped pillows for his patients:

    Health care worker charged with 11 more murders of elderly women in Dallas area
    Billy Chemirmir is being investigated in hundreds of deaths.

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/health-care-worker-charged-11-murders-elderly-women/story?id=63071493

  51. Instead of a policy that advises the infected to remain at home, as the Centers for Disease and Prevention now does, experts said cities should establish facilities where the mildly and moderately ill can recuperate under the care and observation of nurses.

    It sounds stupid to me. By the time they’re symptomatic/diagnosed, people have already exposed all their housemates repeatedly.

  52. @Steve Sailer

    I’m more interested in what “new coronavirus” means.

  53. Berkeley recorded it’s first case of “community contact” COVID. As reported at online news site, Berkeleyside, the man’s girl friend said he was cold and shaky and when she took him to the ER his temperature “shot up to 102.” He tested positive for the virus and was hospitalized for two days and then send home where he and his girlfriend remain in isolatiom. THE MAN IS 82 YEARS OLD. God bless an 82 year old man with a girlfriend, otherwise does anyone else see something strange here.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  54. @Alfa158

    Alf, California banned single use cups for coffee and softdrinks, but now the convenient stores and coffee shops won’t touch your personal to-go cup. Unintened consequences.

  55. Jack D says:
    @Buffalo Joe

    A lot of widowed or divorced people do not remarry but live in sin because remarriage would cost them social security or other benefits, alimony, etc.

  56. @Michael S

    I don’t think this is necessarily a bad idea, provided that it is optional.

    It’s not just a good idea, it’s absolutely necessary. For this Chinese virus–super flu–most people will want to handle it at home. But some people would want to get away from their families. Some isolated folks can’t manage. And then what about the next one with a much more lethal germ?

    We need to have detention/quarantine facilities for anyone returning to the US when there’s a foreign outbreak. But also if there’s an epidemic inside. Both quarantine for potentially exposed/sick–which needs to have very individual/separated accomodations, and quarantined hospitals for sick. These don’t have to be–shouldn’t be–single use. They can be military barraks or college dorms that can be immediately repurposed when needed. Or the material to quickly construct temporary facilities.

    ~~

    Trump needs to have a program of not just “right now”, but a full series of measures to make America resistant again (MARA). Covid-19–in all aspects, the reaction, the failure of prep, the coming flu season–will absolutely dominate the election agenda.

    This actually aids the Democrats in that this was on “Trump’s watch” and it steers the conversation away from the woke/crazy tear they’ve been on. But Trump is fortunate to have Biden as his opponent because he’s one of the least intellectual/on-top-of-the-situation type guys Trump could have faced. But to take advantage, Trump needs to up his game and act like he has actual … *solutions* and would be the “captain” you want steering the ship.

    Here’s a previous comment with some more “future” suggestions for making America resilient again:

    Agree wholeheartedly. This *should* be the end of the globalists’ nonsense.

    We should have
    — borders
    — an immigration moratorium
    — detection/quarantine facilities ready at entry-points; and procedures to use them
    — repatriation of industry especially including medical supply/equipment
    — a stock pile of medical equipment and supplies
    — procedures/facilities for rapid ramp of hospital/quarantine facilities (military bases, college dorms, etc. etc.)
    — detailed procedures for rapid epidemic response for various kinds of pathogens
    — subsidized–if necessary–capability to rapidly produce critical medical supplies/equipment
    — continual–subsidized and competitive–vaccine development; pay labs to go after vaccines for every bug that pops so we have a large ecosystem of labs that are continually practicing and up to speed on skills for “the big one”; (and maybe we make a lot of progress on regular old colds and flu in the bargain)
    — public health initiatives on proper procedures and what necessary supplies are “always at hand” at home
    — suggestions for general societal changes to be more epidemic resistant; (ex. building codes for houses to be better able to isolate yet care for sick family members; more separate bathrooms? air-handling/filtration? etc.)

    Bunch more i could think of if my head was clear.

    Oh,
    — a hard ban on any public health official mentioning “racism”, “xenophobia” or “guns”. Stick to your lane! Or you’re fired.

  57. anon[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @Corvinus

    Young vs Old is a false dichotomy. Cuomo was talking about after they can test for antibodies and hiring young individuals with immunity preferentially. So what are under 30s who need a job going to do? Acquire immunity ASAP.

    People are already bored out of their minds after a week. The idea of just shutting things down until our medical guys approve just isn’t possible.

    No one cares that much about the absolute number of deaths. But they can’t be concentrated and public without causing panic. No one much minds old, sick people dying in a normal, routine environment. But no one can tolerate a chaotic, overwhelmed hospital system.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  58. Charon says:
    @Known Fact

    That reminds me. Is there any good, scientific reason why this virus, or (more to the point) the next one coming down the pike, can’t just as easily deliver a mortality rate of 30 or 75% rather than 2 or 3? Near as I can tell, we as a nation are not only believing this won’t be mortal, we’re also planning as though it’ll be the last time anything like this ever happens.

    • Replies: @International Jew
  59. @Steve Sailer

    Can anybody weigh in on what “traces” mean?

    Allow me to beat Achmed to the punch:

    1969, when crackers still made good music.

  60. Charon says:
    @Morton's toes

    Interesting. What if, for example, you want supplementary oxygen? How do you get that without a doctor’s order? I’ve seen people traipsing about with it so obviously it’s possible but do they all have doctor’s orders?

    Seems to me that if you got it before you absolutely need it, you could get accused of (or prosecuted for) hoarding medical supplies needed by people in hospitals.

    Nonetheless, I wish I had some on hand. Becuase like you, I really don’t want to go to a hospital, even if I “need” to.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  61. Heat up the homes. As best I could gather, 20 minutes at 130 fahrenheit would do the trick. Heaters on the backs of vans and trucks.

  62. Anon87 says:

    The overseas street fogging videos you see online, can you put that in a bug-bomb fogger like when your dog gets fleas? Everyone seals up the food and leaves the house for a few hours.

    Or LED UV blast every room (use eye protection please)?

    Feels like an opportunity for Orkin or Lysol to branch out.

    I think isolation wards are a thing of the past and will never fly in modern America. Both for the inconvenience and for the threat of crippling medical bills.

  63. I’m trying to think through how you clean homes where one person was infected … It sounds difficult.

    Perhaps in the future we will utilize powerful UV lights to disinfect homes after a viral outbreak. We could also perhaps see a situation where advanced street lighting is switched to UV overnight during quarantines. These lights could potentially disinfect commonly traveled areas in congested cities the same or better than chemicals.

    Can UV Light Be Used to Kill Airborne Flu Virus?

    Researchers say a certain spectrum of ultraviolet light — called far-UVC — easily kills airborne flu viruses while posing no risk to people.

    It could offer a new, inexpensive way to eliminate airborne flu viruses in indoor public spaces such as hospitals, doctors’ offices, schools, airports and aircraft, said the team from Columbia University Medical Center in New York City.

    The disinfecting success of initial experiments still need to be confirmed, said lead research David Brenner.

    But he believes “the use of overhead, low-level far-UVC light in public locations would be a safe and efficient method for limiting the transmission and spread of airborne-mediated microbial diseases, such as influenza and tuberculosis.”

    https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20180212/can-uv-light-be-used-to-kill-airborne-flu-virus-

  64. @Corvinus

    LOL!

    The Boomer Flu got you up all night, eh? Can’t imagine a world that you are not in? Better youngsters die rather than you have to answer for your sins?

    There’s a Pashtun saying: “When the flood waters rise, stand on the shoulders of your son.”

    Are you that truly selfish?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  65. Dissident says:
    @Anon

    They had better make sure to separate men, women and children.

    First, they’d have to define those categories and identify individuals accordingly…

  66. Malcolm Y says:

    Don’t know how you can disinfect a house but there might be two possibilities:

    1. Ozone generator: Possibly fill the sealed room/volume with ozone. Let it sit. Blow air into the space. It will kill people/animals. It seeps into every crack and crevice. It may damage material e.g. rubber.

    2. Ultraviolet Light.

    • Replies: @Malcolm Y
  67. Malcolm Y says:
    @Malcolm Y

    Ozone probably no good . It will kill microorganisms but is a very strong oxidizer, more than pure O2, – copper and iron can be catalysts and hence you have a fire hazard.

  68. Whiskey says: • Website
    @Corvinus

    No you are not. You are saving the lives of Pelosi, Biden, Schemer, Ruth Buzzi Ginsburg etc.

    That’s who you are saving.

    At the costs of millions of lives ended through a Depression greater than the Great One.

    Look it’s great you have a trust fund. Those of us who work for a living want to continue to work and get paid. You gonna pay my bills? Pay my family medical bills?

    Is this the hill Dems want to die on? Shutting down the country and half the workforce loses their jobs? And yes it is.

    Don’t think the result will be President Biden. More like Flight Lt. Jerry Rawlings. Or Staff Sgt. Samuel K. Doe.

    The Joint Chiefs could not wipe their ass without hand holding by non coms. The General Officer corps is less competent than the Italian Army and has not won a War since 1945. What happens when their hand holders are their pareu, siblings, and wives and kids turned out on the street because no one has any jobs any more?

    Rawlings or Doe.

    Trump derangement.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  69. @Mr McKenna

    So dysentery huh? So I was right to sell the wife for those two rolls of tp. There’s a solution to the shortage problem too: pay Sears to start reprinting its catalogue.

  70. @OscarWildeLoveChild

    Isn’t Florida starting to do something like that with the 20 fold explosion of flights from Sodom on Hudson in the past two weeks?

  71. @edgar

    Maybe it’s time to round up the politicians, bureaucrats and presstitutes who are pushing the panic button all day, every day, and isolate them.

  72. vhrm says:
    @Dr. Jim

    I understand the sentiment, but in this case the mildly and moderately sick are just people with colds. They walk, they go to the bathroom, they take showers, etc. whole they ride it out.

    So it’s more of a quarantine resort with some nurses to watch for people getting bad enough to have to be moved to the hospital.

  73. @Mr McKenna

    Unmitigated bullshit, just like everything else the CDC puts out.

  74. @unit472

    “They are finding live coronavirus in cruise ship cabins 17 days after the passengers and crew were removed.”

    Really? What’s your source for this?

  75. @Dr. Jim

    My daughter is in nursing school. She was just finished with her final clinicals when the school was closed last week and can’t get her certificate thanks to the shutdown. That kind of fits with what you are saying, “we don’t do that anymore”.

  76. The main thing is not to separate families, or put kids into cages.

  77. @Charon

    can’t just as easily deliver a mortality rate of 30 or 75% rather than 2 or 3?

    Because nothing like that has ever happened before. We’re a species that’s evolved and adapted to viruses. The only really significant new factor, in the last century, has been rapid international travel. And more recently, “migration”. I say, look for big changes on those fronts going forward.

  78. Anonymous[316] • Disclaimer says:
    @Charon

    Get an oxygen concentrator. It provides an unlimited supply of 90% oxygen at up to 5-10 L/min. You technically need a prescription because it’s a medical device, but there is a gray/black market in used units. All the disposable accessories you need are available on Amazon.

    • Thanks: Charon
  79. Carol says:
    @Known Fact

    The alternative is a Thomas Mann novel set in Venice. Plague news was strictly on the QT, all hush-hush, because Business.

  80. Corvinus says:
    @anon

    “People are already bored out of their minds after a week.”

    Then find ways to make the time worthwhile. Use that America ingenuity!

    “The idea of just shutting things down until our medical guys approve just isn’t possible.”

    Sacrifices must be made. It’s not possible, it’s necessary.

    “No one cares that much about the absolute number of deaths.”

    According to Who/Whom?

  81. Corvinus says:
    @Paul Mendez

    “The Boomer Flu got you up all night, eh?”

    No, since I am following the recommendations, as are my neighbors, young and old.

    “Better youngsters die rather than you have to answer for your sins?”

    It’s better that we protect everyone.

    “There’s a Pashtun saying: “When the flood waters rise, stand on the shoulders of your son.” Are you that truly selfish?”

    There is no selfishness here when we work to save people from dying from Covid-19.

  82. Corvinus says:
    @Whiskey

    We are saving the lives of people regardless of age.

    Nancy Pelosi on a meeting she had Sunday, March 22. Allegedly, she quoted Pope Francis–“Those who have the responsibility for the care of people would be enlightened to take responsibility.” Treasury Secretary Mnuchin’s response, “While you’re quoting the Pope, I’m gonna quote the markets.”

    Sounds like a typical globalist response, eh? #DieForTheDow

    “Look it’s great you have a trust fund.”

    That would be a strawman on your part.

    “Shutting down the country and half the workforce loses their jobs? And yes it is.”

    This medicine is required to murder open borders and globalism. Do you not favor those two scourges from being eradicated?

    “Don’t think the result will be President Biden.”

    Maybe, maybe not.

    I’m surprised you didn’t end your screed with how white women as a result of this pandemic will be craving for the darkies when it’s all said and done. Are you losing your touch, chap?

  83. ….cities should establish facilities where the mildly and moderately ill can recuperate under the care and observation of nurses.

    Seems totally reasonable…..

  84. Ben H says:

    Maybe this is a stupid unmedical opinion but it seems that you are more likely to die if you go to a hospital as you will be more exposed to bacterial pneumonia. At home when would you become exposed to that bacteria?

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