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From the Washington Post:

Brazil eliminated daylight saving time. Now it’s light out before 5 a.m., and people aren’t happy.

Terrence McCoy
Jan. 12, 2020 at 11:21 a.m. PST

… In this latest chapter of humanity’s ongoing and continually controversial experimentation with time, Brazil, after nearly a century of begrudgingly changing the clocks every few months, has called off daylight saving time. “Even if it was only an hour, it messed with people’s biological clocks,” President Jair Bolsonaro reasoned when he signed the decision last year. …

Much of the world is increasingly considering whether it should follow suit. In the United States, the rush is on in statehouses and Congress to do away not with daylight saving time but to nix standard time, if anyone can agree on such a thing. “Making Daylight Saving Time permanent is O.K. with me!” President Trump tweeted last March. And on the other side of the Atlantic, the European Parliament voted last year to do away with all of the clock jiggering.

“Let’s end this once and for all,” urges an online petition in the United States that has collected 250,000 signatures. “End the madness.”

But many Brazilians, now months into the change, are here to say: Be careful what you wish for. Brazilians have never been shy about complaining about their country, whether it’s the crime, the social inequality or the corruption. Now, as days begin earlier than anyone can remember, they’ve added a new one to the list. …

“I never knew I liked daylight saving time until it was gone,” added a third.

I think some of the recent complaints about daylight savings time have to do with how Congress fine-tuned the dates of the clocks shifts. When I was young, both Daylight Savings Time and Standard Time were six months long, but now DST is 7 months and 3 weeks long while standard time is 4 months and 1 week long. So the more irritating of the two clock shifts — Spring Ahead when you lose an hour of sleep comes only 4 months and 1 week after Fall Back, so it seems like they are constantly fiddling with the time, so why not just get rid of Standard Time altogether?

But winter mornings with Daylight Savings Time are awful, as Americans discovered in 1974 when we briefly went to year-round DST due to the Energy Crisis. Practically everybody has forgotten that experiment, because only a few of us are sunrise/sunset nerds.

If we really, really needed a single year round time, it would probably make sense to compromise by moving the clocks forward permanently by 30 minutes. That would give us 30 minutes more daylight on summer evenings than Standard Time and 30 minutes less darkness on winter mornings than Savings Time.

But being 30 minutes off from most of the rest of the world would tend to be annoying for everybody.

 
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  1. El Dato says:

    light out before 5 a.m.

    Damned Barazilians partying all night, then complaining.

    • LOL: bomag
  2. Early morning daylight is essentially useless. After work (or school) it’s useful.

    “Let’s end this once and for all,” urges an online petition in the United States that has collected 250,000 signatures.

    Well, at least that’s a relief. A tiny fraction of the number who believe in ghosts, for example.

  3. El Dato says:

    Or one could adapt to the age of clocks displaying a time generated by complex algorithm (i.e. more complex than can be achieved reasonably by a cogs & wheels machinery unless you are doing <a title=”"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1i-dnAH9Y4"Navy&#8221; href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1i-dnAH9Y4"Navy Targeting Systems): Make it so 12:00 is always when the sun reaches highest elevation!

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  4. @Mr McKenna

    Wait a minute! What are those 250,000 people proposing??

    In the United States, the rush is on in statehouses and Congress to do away not with daylight saving time but to nix standard time

    First I’ve heard of it. That’s what I get for skimming! Apparently it’s another thing Mr Trump is right about. I’m definitely in favor of scrapping so-called ‘standard time’ (another example of how language governs thought)–in fact I’d like to spring forward two hours.

    Ever been in Paris in June? It’s heaven. Or was when it had Parisians there.

  5. But being 30 minutes off from most of the rest of the world would tend to be annoying for everybody.

    One country we wouldn’t be 30 minutes off from is Iran.

  6. Anon[398] • Disclaimer says:

    Nighttime hours should be shorter than daytime hours. The length of hours (and minutes and seconds) should gradually change, maxing out at high noon and being the shortest in the middle of the night. With digital clock technology this would be easy to do. And marathons run at noon could blast away the records.

  7. For a country that straddles the equator, Daily Savings Time would hardly appear to be a burning public problem. The day is about the same length year-round, anyway. The southernmost point in Brazil is located at 33 degrees south, about the same relative latitude as Shreveport, Louisiana. Sao Paulo is dead on the Tropic of Capricorn and no more requires DST than Miami. Maximum difference in length of day there is just under 3 hours, meaning that the setting of the sun relative to clock time is going to vary by at most an hour and a half, regardless. Under such circumstances, all the clock changing may not be worth it.

    • Agree: jim jones, Dtbb
  8. prosa123 says:

    The end of DST saved me a massive inconvenience a couple months ago. I had just started a night shift job on Staten Island, and was scheduled to leave work at 6:45 am. Unfortunately, the Verrazano Narrows Bridge was closing at 7 am for the NYC Marathon, and there was no way I’d make it by then. It looked as if I’d have to take an absurdly convoluted route through New Jersey to get home, all after working a 12-hour shift. Ugh.

    Thankfully, DST ended at 2 am so when I left work the clocks read 5:45 am. I made it across the bridge before it closed.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
  9. Other countries do weird things with time. China has a single time zone so that for example Tibet abnormally late sunrises and sunsets year round. Spain is on the same time zone as the rest of western Europe although it’s of similar longitude as England, so that it’s essentially on DST in the winter and double DST in the spring-summer. This might be related to their siesta tradition.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  10. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    Most of Brazil is between the Equator and the Tropic of Capricorn, so isn’t the daylight there pretty constant year round?

    • Agree: HammerJack
  11. Anonymous[277] • Disclaimer says:

    As a subtropical nation with comparatively little seasonal diurnal variation, why did Brazil ever institute ‘Daylight Saving Time’ ? – one would have thought its use would be restricted to such high latitude nations such as the UK – which originated it – where winter days are excessively short, and summer days excessively long.

  12. One of the issues, is that actual “time”–i.e. solar time–varies by longitude, but the available daylight and ergo how much of shift you want and when you want it, varies by latitude. And then climate affects whether you really want what’s available at all.

    Arizona doesn’t shift because it would just make summer evenings longer, when people would actually rather have the sun go down and get some desert cooling going for their evenings.

    Here in Florida, where the total winter-summer daylight swing is a whopping 3 hours, the legislature has already voted to make DST permanent. (Essentially putting us on Atlantic standard time.) But that’s been blocked by some provision of the DST law Congress passed. (Apparently federalism doesn’t cover clocks.)

    For us there’s still adequate winter morning light and longer evening winter daylight would be useful. But for someone up in say Michigan where the daylight swing is an hour longer each way, that change would give ’em a midwinter sunrise at 9:00.

    ~~

    There are several different reasonable approaches.

    1) Just stick year round with the closest on-hour approximation to solar time. And leave it to businesses to adjust their hours if they like. Downside is more complexity.

    2) Keep doing what we’re doing. Downside is it’s a one-size-fits-all sub-optimal compromise.

    3) Let various states figure out there own timings that work for them. With everyone caring around a clock hooked to a network, it’s not exactly difficult for people to sync to the right time when they travel. Downside is more confusion about what time other folks are on. (Though again, now in a few taps you can look it up.)

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    , @Corn
  13. https://www.timeanddate.com/time/time-zones-interesting.html

    Several countries are off universal time by 15 or 30 minutes. I think they missed a tiny region in Britain or on maybe the continent. Anyway, before the railroads invented universal time each town in the US actually kept the correct time to the minute, but that was tough on scheduling. We in Las Vegas should fall in Rocky Mountain time but we’re stuck in LA time for business reasons. So time is as negotiable as you demand it to be.

  14. But being 30 minutes off from most of the rest of the world would tend to be annoying for everybody.

    India has a 30 minute offset for its single time zone, which saves it the inconvenience of having two time zones for its (roughly) two thousand mile width.

    Until WWII, like many other countries, British India used “railway time.” Major cities that were widely separated longitudinally had local time zones that could differ by as little as 15 minutes.

    Of course, about half of India is at lower latitudes than the United States, so daylight savings is not a really huge issue for them.

    The Japanese don’t use daylight savings time, and their time zone is set such that the sun rises at 4:30 a.m. in midsummer in Tokyo. When I lived there, my bedroom had an east facing window, and the blackout blinds wouldn’t stop the brilliant sunlight from leaking in around the edges. It was very annoying. They should probably readjust their single time zone to be an hour earlier, but there might be practical reasons why they cannot. Or maybe they don’t want to have the same time zone as Beijing.

  15. LondonBob says:

    I lived in Moscow when they got rid of DST and it was horrible, pitch black at nine in the morning. They then just moved Moscow’s time zone with the clocks moved back one hour and DST wasn’t reintroduced, I assume this worked out as things haven’t changed. Of course Moscow in the summer the sun would set as late as midnight. I understand they have filled quite a lot with the time zones in all the different regions and have them all pretty much fitting the natural cycle now.

    Strange Brazil fiddled with the time, Portugal did and they also quickly changed it back again as it proved disastrous.

    I can always tell when the clocks are about to change here in Britain as my body clock begins moving in the few weeks before they do.

    I don’t suppose another failed experiment will stop the cranks complaining about DST.

  16. If you think Paradise would look better paved, don’t mewl and puke when it becomes a parkin’ lot.

    • Replies: @Charon
  17. anon[273] • Disclaimer says:

    If we all adopted Metric Time there’d be no reason for ‘daylight saving’.

    • LOL: Jim bob Lassiter
  18. Romanian says:

    Off topic

    RIP Sir Roger Scruton.

    Our side lost a great champion!

  19. At the equator, day and night are exactly twelve hours long every day of the year. Hawaii, which is only about 20° north of the equator, doesn’t have DST for this reason. Rio and Sao Paolo are at about 20° south. So I’m surprised Brazil ever bothered with DST in the first place.

  20. utu says:

    The DST always was a major issue for conservatives. And getting rid of it may feel like bringing back the good old times. Wasn’t conservative Indiana w/o DST till 2006?

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
  21. @Dave Pinsen

    Given the Iran obscession in the US, it’s convenient. Also India is on a half-hour difference with other countries.

  22. Charon says:
    @Kratoklastes

    Girlfriend. What are you babbling about.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @Gary in Gramercy
  23. @utu

    They’re still split, last I heard. L
    Part of the state uses DST, part doesn’t.

    • Replies: @Galactic Overlord
  24. @Charon

    Hint: look at the title our host gave this post.

    [MORE]

    (Joni Mitchell, “Big Yellow Taxi”)

    • Replies: @Charon
  25. If we really, really needed a single year round time, it would probably make sense to compromise by moving the clocks forward permanently by 30 minutes. That would give us 30 minutes more daylight on summer evenings than Standard Time and 30 minutes less darkness on winter mornings than Savings Time.

    It is comments like this that prevent me from publicly admitting I read your blog. You should be embarrassed.

    • Troll: Charon
  26. @AnotherDad

    Apparently federalism doesn’t cover clocks

    Nor should it

  27. @prosa123

    I had just started a night shift job on Staten Island

    What’s preventing you from earning a standard living like this rest of us? You were an insurance salesman and a stockboy at Home Depot. Now you have an extra job in Staten Island. Just go to an office for 8 hours a day.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    , @prosa123
    , @J.Ross
  28. No matter how we fiddle with the time, the days in the US are numbered if immigration isn’t addressed.

    • Agree: Charon, istevefan
  29. But being 30 minutes off from most of the rest of the world would tend to be annoying for everybody.

    Why let that stop us? We still refuse to use the metric system.

    While we’re at it, we can shift our longitude on maps 7.5 degrees to the west, to compensate for the half hour. At least we don’t drive on the wrong side of the road.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  30. Ano says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    It’d be good if the USA could fall into line with South Australia and the Northern Territory. Have a heart Mr Sailer, and do it for the good people of Adelaide and Darwin.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  31. @Mr McKenna

    Human psychology is weird. Daylight Saving Time is just a way to get everyone to go to work/school an hour earlier starting on a specific day each year. You’d think if people wanted year-round Daylight Saving Time, they would be happy with a mandate that everyone just go to work earlier. But I bet that wouldn’t be very popular.

    • Agree: Coemgen, ben tillman
  32. Jack D says:
    @Anon

    The traditional Japanese timekeeping system divided the day into 6 nighttime hours and 6 daytime hours. The length of the hours therefore varied during the seasons. At the equinoxes, each Japanese hour was exactly 2 Western hours long but during the winter, night hours were longer than day hours and in the summer vice versa. Unmodified Western clocks were therefore useless to the Japanese because the hours were always the same length. But the Japanese, being Japanese, soon figured out how to built clocks that were cleverly adapted for their timekeeping system.

  33. I hate DST. We Arizonans have it right.

  34. Anonymous[323] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr McKenna

    America will soon be on CPT anyway.

    • LOL: Charon, ben tillman
  35. anonymous[290] • Disclaimer says:

    The title reminded me of Cinderella’s evergreen ballad.

    • Replies: @duncsbaby
  36. Bitfu says:

    Daylight Savings is a gentle reminder to the plebs that someone else is in charge.

  37. Jack D says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    You’ve hit upon something here, which is that sunrise and sunset times vary by up to an hour depending on whether you are at the western or eastern edge of a time zone (not to mention the fact that they jump an hour when you cross the zone lines). Today in Tallahassee, FL, the sun will not set until 5:57 PM because they are on the far western edge of the Eastern time zone but in nearby Panama City, FL the sun will set early at 5:03 because they are on the eastern edge of the Central time zone. (Really it sets 6 minutes later but an hour earlier on the clock because the clocks are set an hour behind).

    All of China is on one time zone which leads to strange results. In Kashgar, China today the sun will not rise until 10:15 AM and it won’t set until almost 8PM. Even in June the sun doesn’t come up until 7:30 AM. They deal with this by just shifting work hours. In Kashgar the workday starts at 11 AM instead of 8. Which if you think about it, is exactly what they do in LA (based on Washington DC time), it just says 8AM on their clocks.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  38. @ScarletNumber

    Lighten up Scarlet; if Venezuela does it, why not?

  39. But then what’s wrong with not springing forward in the spring? What problems would that cause in summer? Would it be so awful not to gain the extra hour of sunlight in July?

    I may have this wrong, having trouble thinking it through.

  40. “And on the other side of the Atlantic, the European Parliament voted last year to do away with all of the clock jiggering.”

    I don’t know ’bout y’all, but dat sounds kinda rayciss to me.

  41. @Mr McKenna

    I’m definitely in favor of scrapping so-called ‘standard time’ (another example of how language governs thought)…

    I’m not sure what you mean by this part, Mr. McKenna. Standard Time was THE standard until the WWII days and blackouts and such. OTOH, it’s been what, damn near 80 years, so one might say that is just as ancient terminology as the term “conventional gear” for describing airplanes with main & tailwheel landing gear (as opposed to that new-fangled main/nose-wheel set up.

    Haha, that change to the nose-wheel gear came about almost from exactly the same time too! (The P-38 had a nose-wheel, and then the B-29 did – any aviation buffs here that can tell me the first mass-built airplane that had the ‘new-fangled’ gear? I’m asking, not testing anyone.)

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @istevefan
  42. @Ripple Earthdevil

    Thank you for bringing up the China example, Ripple. It’s just another way to test whether you can fool Mother Nature. You can’t. I don’t mean just the astronomy, but human nature too. See. if you live out west in Chengdu or Xinjiang, you’re not gonna set your working hours to where it’s dark for the 1st 2 hours of your workday, especially if it’s outside work. How would your stomach handle this for meals? How do you get the kids to sleep at 8P if it’s light until 11 (of course, WTF do Alaskans and Swedes do?)

    The solution is simple. Chinese Central Gov. wants one time zone. We go to flex hours. “What, Hu not here. No, only 9 O-crock. Wien He be in? 10 O’crock sharp.”

    • LOL: JMcG
  43. @El Dato

    Or one could adapt to the age of clocks displaying a time generated by complex algorithm . . . . Make it so 12:00 is always when the sun reaches highest elevation!

    That would be kind of cool: for each GPS coordinate to have it’s own unique time. That’s sort of how it was in preindustrial days. Each town had a big clock in the square that kept the town’s own time.

    Of course it would wreak havoc on flight schedules, TV schedules, and setting up a conference call. But it would be interesting to watch time literally (sort of) slow down or speed up continuously as you fly or drive. It would make you feel like one of the twins in Einstein’s Time Dilation Paradox.

    We could also go to the other extreme by just getting rid of local time altogether, and just using Greenwitch Mean Time everywhere. That would completely divorce time of day from the position of the sun. But at least it would be uniform.

  44. Altai says:

    OT: Joker has gotten an Oscar nomination for almost every category it could conceivably qualify for. Nothing for best actress, best supporting actress or best supporting actor. (But then Al Pacino was already nominated for The Irishman) Also no nomination for Production Design.

    Joker has a nomination for:
    Best Picture
    Directing
    Actor in a Leading Role (Joaquin Phoenix)
    Adapted Screenplay (I think it’s a shame it gets put here instead of Original Screenplay since this is a Joker/Batman story in name only)
    Cinematography
    Original Score
    Film Editing
    Costume Design
    Makeup and Hairstyling
    Sound Mixing
    Sound Editing

    • Replies: @Jim bob Lassiter
  45. Corn says:
    @AnotherDad

    “1) Just stick year round with the closest on-hour approximation to solar time. And leave it to businesses to adjust their hours if they like. ”

    The late blogger and writer John J. Reilly wrote once that rather than having standard time and daylight time, the US could keep to one time but government offices could start keeping “Summer hours” and “Winter hours”. He thought eventually private businesses would follow suit.

  46. Steve, I am glad you are back posting. It was only for a day and then later for another day, but it got me worried about you. I didn’t think you could go that long without posting something either for your sake or for your readers. I thought about this earlier, and then saw you had 3 new posts and was quite relieved.

    Sorry, other commenters, for chiming in before I read all the comments this time. I think everyone here combined has got a handle on the problem. There’s no good solution, besides us all going back to sheepherding and other pastoral occupations with no clocks but the sun and night sky.

    • Replies: @Old Prude
    , @Mr McKenna
  47. @Anon

    Nighttime hours should be shorter than daytime hours.

    We should get rid of 3:00 a.m. Nothing good ever happens at 3:00 a.m.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    , @Reg Cæsar
  48. For the love of God, let’s at least get the musical reference right.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Know_What_You_Got_(Till_It%27s_Gone)

    “Don’t Know What You Got (Till It’s Gone)” is a power ballad[2][3] written by Tom Keifer and performed by the glam metal band Cinderella, from their second album Long Cold Winter. Released in August 1988, it was their most successful single, peaking at number 12 on US Billboard Hot 100 in November 1988.

    Ok, boomers?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  49. jsm says:
    @ScarletNumber

    Agreed.
    Steve, this drives me nuts.
    NO, DST / standard time does NOT “give more daylight in the summer evenings and less darkness on winter mornings.”

    The sun does what it does. Moving clock hands doesn’t change it!

    The only thing this silly Keystone Kops routine does is force you to get up earlier in summer with the earlier-rising sun, and allow you to sleep later in the morning with the later-rising sun in winter.

    Because you get up earlier in summer, you are tired earlier, so you THINK you got more evening hours, but you didn’t. It’s 8 pm by the sun, even if YOUR clock says it’s 9 pm. The whole thing is a scam and a mind-game, and it’s just about controlling the proles. “HOW DARE THEY sleep when the sun has risen?!”

  50. The problem is that, in northern latitudes, there is simply too much light in the summer and too little in the winter. Fiddling with when the light happens can’t change that. Like trying to shorten winter by changing the official first day to January 21.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    , @Bleuteaux
  51. “In a real dark night of the soul it is always three o’clock in the morning” – F. Scott Fitzgerald, who knew a thing or two about the drunkard’s hour.

  52. Charon says:
    @Gary in Gramercy

    Yeah I know the song but I still don’t get the gist of his remark. Oh well. I never liked her forced laughter in that one. Stipe’s giggle in Sidewinder is slightly less fake IMHO.

  53. “But being 30 minutes off from most of the rest of the world would tend to be annoying for everybody.”

    As the US has been off from the rest of the world for years, an additional half hour really wouldn’t make much of a difference.

  54. Much ado about nothing. Just try living in Scandinavian countries or in northernmost Russia. You’ll either commit suicide or become an alcoholic.

  55. dearieme says:

    After WWII, France and the Low Countries did not revert to their own time zones but elected to stay on Berlin time. Odd that.

  56. @Hypnotoad666

    …for each GPS coordinate to have it’s own unique time.

    Lattitude and longitude as coordinates were around long before GPS. It’s just a pet peeve of mine, Hypnotoad, as there are no GPS coordinates really, just Lat/Long as determined by GPS. (I’m sure you know that – just the terminology bugs me).

    Anyway, since these are real numbers, that’d mean even heading 100 yards east or west from someone else would introduce a time difference of, let’s see, about 1/5 of a second at the equator and the cosine of your latitude x that for other latitudes. This is brilliant in an Einsteinien fashion. All running races would have to be done in full laps on a track, though, or else true north and south (for sprints, I guess).

    I would like to submit your plan for further study.

  57. @Jack D

    All of China is on one time zone which leads to strange results. In Kashgar, China today the sun will not rise until 10:15 AM and it won’t set until almost 8PM. Even in June the sun doesn’t come up until 7:30 AM. They deal with this by just shifting work hours.

    The thing in China is the empire–and the Han–pissing on the lowly provinces.

    Obviously you can adjust to whatever the heck it says on the clock. (Everyone in the world could just use GMT.) But this sort of official gross maladjustment of your clock so that concepts “noon”, “afternoon”, “morning” have times well off normal, all in order to match the rulers’ clock … reeks of the imperial boot.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Jack D
  58. Once the Latinix hordes take over Amurika there’ll be no problemas with time and everyone can put their timepieces in the curios cabinet.

    Everything relative to time will be expressed as “AHORITA”, “DENTRO DE UN RATO” and “MAÑANA”.

    • Agree: jim jones
  59. @Altai

    I saw the movie. It was ok. It’s weakest element is the screenplay. Absurdly implausible are the parts about the co-worker giving Joker his revolver in NYC and the coked up Wall Streeters in a subway at night. Coked up Wall Streeters ride in limos at night.

  60. @ScarletNumber

    I, for one, applaud Prosa123’s sacrifices to be Steve’s Staten Island correspondent.

  61. Anonymous[337] • Disclaimer says:

    Are Pygbinos a thing ?

  62. dearieme says:
    @Roger Sweeny

    Thank God I live in a country where we don’t have an officious government adopting an official first day of winter.

  63. @a Newsreader

    Human psychology is weird. Daylight Saving Time is just a way to get everyone to go to work/school an hour earlier starting on a specific day each year. You’d think if people wanted year-round Daylight Saving Time, they would be happy with a mandate that everyone just go to work earlier. But I bet that wouldn’t be very popular.

    Human pyschology is indeed weird. But there’s nothing weird about what’s going on with DST.

    We could leave it to businesses to change to “summer hours” where and when they want and have Home Depot, Costco, banks, your favorite bar and restaurant, government officies … all make changes as they see fit. But it would be more confusing: “I went all the way over to Costco and they were closed!” “Oh yeah, they went onto summer hours last week and are closing at 7:30 now.”

    Having everyone just reset their clock and leave all the nominal business timings alone–only the seasonal ones might further change–is just way simpler. And we get the extra daylight in the evening which most people prefer.

    ~~~

    This claim–“people like the extra daylight in the evening”–hints at perhaps why this issue is being raised now.

    Maybe in this age of screens … people just don’t care much anymore?

    When i was a kid getting those long lingering summer evenings was solid gold. And adults would be outside too. Yard work, walking, visiting with neighbors or just having a beer on the patio. Now everyone’s on their screens and just don’t really care.

    And, of course, the whiners gotta whine. “Oh … i had to change my clock. It’s messed me up.” (As if every American isn’t pretty routinely getting on a plane and flying someplace else.)

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @prosa123
  64. prosa123 says:
    @ScarletNumber

    By going from Home Depot to an Extremely Large Online Retailer’s fulfillment center I more than doubled my income. Not to mention a benefits package that’s orders of magnitude better. While the Extremely Large Online Retailer gets massive amounts of criticism it pays very well.

  65. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @prosa123

    Grew up in SINY in the 70s and 80s. The traffic was much less ridiculous then. SINY would be such a nice place if the Verrazano had never been built.

    • Replies: @Prosa123
  66. I was one of the few that arguing that removing daylight saving was a bad idea. and it was, of course.

    It was quite good being able to going home from work and still have a few works to do some in daylight. now it’s the inverse, we’re sleeping and there’s birds whistling on our windows

  67. M_Young says:

    Just goes to show, time is a social construct.

  68. prosa123 says:
    @AnotherDad

    We could leave it to businesses to change to “summer hours” where and when they want and have Home Depot, Costco, banks, your favorite bar and restaurant, government officies … all make changes as they see fit. But it would be more confusing

    Many Home Depots actually do have summer – actually DST – hours, closing at 9pm when DST is not in effect and at 10 pm when it is.

  69. J.Ross says:

    You don’t know what you have til it’s gone: today is the day Virginia’s Bloomberg program is supposed to go live. What they’ve done in other states (with far less ambitious programs) is to combine police aggression with media quiet, either not reporting it at all, or reporting it very minimally and dishonestly. I don’t think there has been any mention in the establishment news media of the deaths, or the high rate of false calls, and there’s certainly no discussion of huge problems like exploitability by fighting spouses. The big protest demonstration is set for the twentieth, which is the state legislature lobbying day. The Bloomberg legislature violated established procedure on their first day and more recently flooded the table with thousands of prewritten and redundant Bloomberg laws. In other words, if you’re trying to get a handle on what’s going on, you not only have a lot of reading to get through, but if you successfully oppose one law its same effect has four or five other chances to sneak by. There is a clear pattern of the legislature at war with the people through the whole thing.

  70. J.Ross says:
    @ScarletNumber

    >an office job like the rest of us
    How have you missed all the news sbout what working in an office is like?

    • Thanks: Mr McKenna
  71. @Redneck farmer

    Indiana is still in two time zones, but the entire state has used DST since 2006.

    • Thanks: Redneck farmer
  72. Liza says:

    But fiddling with DST vs Standard Time is not the only thing going on. The various time zones aren’t nice and even. The world’s time zones have lots of zigs and zags thanks to humans trying to outdo nature for their convenience (placement of cities, etc.) Just to mess things up even more.

    Juggling time to accommodate some people in some places having certain kinds of jobs is going to piss off other people in other places being on different shifts. But if you raise animals, as I have done, they always seem to know when to start their day. And when to head back to the barn/shelter or jump onto the roost for a good night’s sleep. (Some breeds of chickens even like to sleep in trees instead of going back to the chicken house.) They don’t make mistakes.

    Maybe globalization is the problem, not the sun wanting to rise and set in different places at different times. The sundial knows best.

  73. Jack D says:
    @AnotherDad

    OTOH, when in China someone says “I’ll call you at 1PM” there’s no confusion – is it 1PM Kashgar time or 1PM Beijing time?

    I agree with you that while it’s imperialistic to set the whole country on capital time, it is not without some advantages. Just like daylight savings, just like the concept of time zones itself (formerly each city had its own local time, determined by solar observation – this led to problems once there were railroads), every time keeping system has advantages and disadvantages – there is no one perfect system.

  74. captflee says:

    I got ‘dem ol’ circadian dysrhythmia blues again, mama…

    On a fast ship and at higher latitudes one is changing the clock nightly, and on occasion that is insufficient. Even low and slow, say 15 knots at 30 degrees, results in 2-3 per week if one’s course is anywhere near E/W. How this plays with the leftmost inhabitants of the bell curve, and not a few of those from the right, can be well imagined. It is a very good thing, indeed, that one can rely on the off-going watch to ensure that the oncoming personnel are properly awakened; if each were left to his own devices utter chaos would soon ensue.

  75. JimB says:

    But winter mornings with Daylight Savings Time are awful, as Americans discovered in 1974 when we briefly went to year-round DST due to the Energy Crisis.

    Walking to school before sunrise is dangerous. As I recall, the number of children struck by cars or abducted by strangers skyrocketed.

  76. J.Ross says:

    Corey Booker (the gay black guy, as opposed to the gay space mestizo or the gay gay guy) has dropped out of the race. Before he left, all the other candidates declared themselves to be Cory Booker.
    Joe Biden’s still in the race, which I find to be kind of amazing.
    Mike Bloomberg decided (after a reasonably-sized Pepsi) that this was a rational decision:
    https://postimg.cc/m1jZC5XK

    • Replies: @Charon
  77. @prosa123

    As if every American isn’t pretty routinely getting on a plane and flying someplace else.

    Just for the record, most Americans are not routinely boarding airplanes.

    • Replies: @theMann
    , @Mr McKenna
  78. Old Prude says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    What do the animals think when the hobby farmer comes to the barn an hour early?

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  79. I live on the eastern part of the Central zone, at almost exactly 43 degrees north.

    The local middle schools start early to double up on buses.

    When my kids were in middle school, leaving the house at 6:35 to get a 6:45 bus, they would walk to the bus stop in pitch black by late October and early November. Also close to the winter solstice.

    I can only imagine what it is like for kids in Minnesota, which is further north and further west.

    OTOH, in the summer the sun is out very very early, even with DST. Another hour of sunlight in the morning and less in the evening would not be appreciated.

    DST all year long on the west coast would make getting to school a living hell for kids in Seattle. Not having DST at all would make no sense at all for them in the summer.

    I did live in Honolulu for a year. Winter solstice the sun rose at 7:00 and set at 6:00. Summer solstice 6:00 am to 7:00 pm. Equinox was 6:30. My grandfather passed through Honolulu in the USMC during WW II, hitching his way from Okinawa to the west coast. He said in those days Hawaii used a half hour rime zone. Those are very rare outside of India now.

  80. There are subjective advantages in not observing daylight saving time for those who have to get out to take the bus early, as the morning light makes one feel a bit safer doing so (if not actually safer). I remember having read an interview in which a woman said she disliked the days shortly after the hour change explicitly because the dark mornings made her more afraid of going to the bus stop. Now that there’s no more daylight saving time, that other woman in the Washington Post is saying she dislikes that it gets dark earlier in the afternoon because, like the first woman, she fears for her safety. Can’t please everyone.

    I’d wager that here, in my country, there are more people who have to get out early, before five o’clock in the morning during the summer — which would be dark if observing daylight saving time — than arrive home late enough so that it’d already dark if not for daylight saving time — which would be after six o’clock in the afternoon (where I live it’s currently only getting dark around 7 PM). I am not saying that most people get out of work before that hour, let alone arrive home, but many of them do, while nearly everyone has to get out of home to go to work before 5 AM (me excluded, thankfully, but just for now).

    This situation holds, roughly, throughout the regions here that observe daylight saving time, as in the Southeast, part of the Central-West, and the South, as the westernmost states of the Central-West are in another time zone and therefore don’t experience abnormally late sunrises/sunsets. The Northeast and the North already did not observe daylight saving time. There is still some variation regarding the hour it gets bright/dark outside between, say, Nova Iguaçu versus Vila Velha at a given day of the year, but it’s not that great.

    But as with Trump, it has been decided by our betters that whatever Bolsonaro agrees with must be wrong, and that nobody cares, or should care, for people’s feelings and concerns when their opinions are wrong. That it was Michel Temer who first recently proposed abolishing daylight saving time, well, that only means you should feel even worse by enjoying the positives in not observing daylight saving time.

  81. Jack D says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    This is a very hard question to answer because tricycle gear was found on some of the earliest aircraft.

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9a984c7561fa826da11a153f4bccb2c3

    (Antoinette II French monoplane of 1908 – it’s hard to believe that even flew. The French were more interested in the Wright Brother’s work than the Americans. From the American POV the Wright Brothers were a couple of bike mechanics and it was impossible that they had invented the airplane and not some professor at Harvard. Even though they were actually flying around in Ohio, no one back east could be bothered to check and so it was still impossible.)

    So your question comes down to what counts as a “mass built” airplane.

    Tricycle gear is better for multi-engine aircraft (B-24, P-38) and for landing on paved fields. The main transition seems to have started in the early ’40s when these both became more common. A tail dragger also leaves you with the floor tilted after landing, which is not comfy for passengers. The last nail in the coffin for the tail dragger was the jet engine. A jet engine in a tail dragger would tend to melt the runway.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  82. @Paleo Liberal

    Don’t feel bad, PL. Attending middle and high schools at 7,800 feet in Colorado, at approximately 40 degrees north latitude, I remember waiting in the dark for the school bus when the air temperature was -30 F. Yes, minus Thirty Degrees Fahrenheit. Those were just a few mornings. There were more that were about minus 20 F.

    We kids didn’t think much of it. Really. We had our leather hiking boots and down jackets. That was “cool” in 1970s Rocky Mountain Colorado, okay? (BTW Trey Parker of South Park Fame grew up in exactly the same place, same schools, same local theater group. Whatever you see in South Park, especially in the early years, is from MY home town.)

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    , @nebulafox
  83. @Jack D

    All good points, Jack, and I’d forgotten the B-25 Mitchell too, from slightly earlier, though we are both thinking of American planes. Yes, I read the Wright Brothers book (yes, that’s the name, and I forget the author right now). People just wouldn’t believe it until they saw it, when they started flying around out of Huffman Prairie back in Ohio and then did some stints over NY City and out around Governor’s Island.

    A reason for the tailgear arrangement is for bush planes. It keeps that prop much farther away from the dirt and rocks. Tricycle gear is much easier to land with, explaining why those old WWII training airports all over the country had (many have one or two closed with tall grass growing through now) 3 runways in an equilateral triangle. Crosswind landings are difficult in taildraggers, and this way, you’d have no more than a 30-degree crosswind (i.e., your X-wind component would be 1/2 the wind speed) or at least, as PLANNED.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @istevefan
    , @JMcG
  84. @Paleo Liberal

    Seattle is already ridiculous, at 48N, no matter what you do with the clocks. In summer, the light will wake you before it’s time to get up, but then you can hike until almost 10P in the light. Then that big-ass white ice-cream cone sits up floating above the haze to the southeast from any point with a view – it’s that top 4,000 ft of Rainier, still covered with glaciers.

    In winter, even if the sun peaks out at noontime, the damn thing is only 19 degrees above the horizon. It’s great as an ornament to match the clouds and neon, but that’s about all it’s good for. #DEPRESSING

    • Replies: @ricpic
  85. Prosa123 says:
    @Anonymous

    Mostly I drive just on the Staten Island Expressway, but whenever I’m on regular city streets I do *not* like it. Most of the island has suburban-style development levels with moderate density levels, but traffic control follows an urban pattern with a traffic light at almost every intersection. It makes for very slow driving.

  86. theMann says:
    @Kevin O'Keeffe

    Around 80 million fliers a year, obviously short of most people but a lot of people.

    As Linh Dinh has pointed out, we live in the Era of peak travel. Get on a plane and go somewhere, it will never be this easy or cheap again. In any case, coordinating time zones is critical to managing the sheer, gigantic flow of air ( and rail) traffic.

    • Replies: @Marty
  87. Bleuteaux says:
    @Roger Sweeny

    This is exactly what it boils down to.

    If you live on the far north eastern edge of Central Standard Time, sunset is before 5pm for the entirety of standard time. Darn close to 4pm, in fact.

    Endless fiddling only makes the problem worse. Keep one dn time and make people adjust their schedules of they wish.

  88. res says:

    It is impossible to make everyone in the US completely happy with a single time regime. At the most extreme latitudes we have:
    https://www.infoplease.com/world/united-states-geography/extreme-points-united-states-50-states
    Northernmost point: Point Barrow, Alaska 71°23′ N
    Southernmost point: Ka Lae (South Cape), Hawaii 18°55′ N

    The contiguous US extends from 24°32′ N to 49°23′ N
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extreme_points_of_the_United_States#Northernmost_points

    Let’s take a more detailed look at 30° N and 48° N latitudes, roughly the boundaries of the well populated contiguous US (I’ll arbitrarily look at 100° W longitude to give real numbers). Using the sunrise/sunset calculator at https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/sunrise.html
    we find (assuming no DST).

    30° N December 21

    Apparent Sunrise | Solar Noon | Apparent Sunset | Time Zone
    7:32AM 12:38:12 5:45PM Local
    13:32 18:38:12 23:45 UTC

    48° N December 21

    Apparent Sunrise | Solar Noon | Apparent Sunset | Time Zone
    8:27AM 12:38:12 4:50PM Local
    14:27 18:38:12 22:50 UTC

    30° N June 21

    Apparent Sunrise | Solar Noon | Apparent Sunset | Time Zone
    5:40AM 12:41:52 7:44PM Local
    11:40 18:41:52 1:44 22Jun UTC

    48° N June 21

    Apparent Sunrise | Solar Noon | Apparent Sunset | Time Zone
    4:41AM 12:41:52 8:43PM Local
    10:41 18:41:52 2:43 22Jun UTC

    To summarize, 30° N ranges from 10:23 to 14:04 daylight time while
    48° N ranges from 8:23 to 16:02 daylight time

    I see some useful rules of thumb in all of that. At the solstices sunrise and sunset are about an hour different between those latitudes. So day length is about two hours different at the solstices. This makes for a difference in overall day length variation of 4 vs. 8 hours. (roughly double).

    Hopefully all of this will help show those who live in the Southern US why DST is necessary (IMHO) for the Northern US. And keep in mind I did not even look closely at Alaska!

    P.S. As others have wondered, why did Brazil have DST in the first place given that it ranges from 5° N to 34° S latitude?
    https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-most-extreme-points-of-brazil.html

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  89. Anonymous[934] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Many WWII airplanes had tricycle gear, it was actually invented early on but not popular until about the time of the war. Langewiesche comments that the tailwheel arrangement is awkward for landing but superior for taking off.

    There are other arrangements possible, of course. The U-2, B-47 and Harrier all had bicycle gear with outriggers or pogos, and the Twin Mustang had tail-quad gear. The B-52 had quad gear too.

    I strongly believe everyone should start out in a conventional gear airplane. If Veronica Lake could fly a Luscombe, anyone probably can. The best primary trainer yet devised is probably the Reed clipped wing J-3 Cub but any Cub, Champ, Citabria, whatever, will do. The Brits used the Tiger Moth very well, but it was expensive to manufacture once they actually pay the workers.

    In quantity these type of airplanes can be made for the price of a small car. Wichita did it for nearly twenty years. Then Walter Beech got the contract to build the replacement “Dorito tail” vertical stab for Convair on the Deuce, Cessna got the Tweet contract, and they all became spoiled contractors. When Walter died Olive Ann took over, and she didn’t care about making airplanes, she wanted easy safe money. She looked at Beechcraft as a tax free muni bond with a better rate of return.

    Combined with the general cuck mentality in Kansas, that’s why GA has been a canker sore on the ass of progress since mid-Vietnam or so. Pwoduct wiability was an opportunistic infection, and a random one at that. Before that the general excuse was that computer time was very expensive! Of course all the recips were designed before there even WERE computers. Yet people believed it. Pilots are a gullible bunch.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @JMcG
  90. @a Newsreader

    Alan Watts gave the whole DST brou-haha as an example of how enslaved by mechanisms and machines modern man has become. If you want an extra hour of daylight, get up earlier. No, instead we have to mandate that everyone move their clocks back together. Madness.

  91. @Paleo Liberal

    Several times, and I feel bad about it now.

    Don’t we all feel bad about things we could have done differently?

    • LOL: Paleo Liberal
  92. Anon[344] • Disclaimer says:

    ot: is it just me, or are work places designs becoming more and more like designs of university campuses?

    https://news.adobe.com/video/adobes-san-jose-headquarters-60-second-highlight

  93. jb says:

    The definition of noon is when the sun is directly overhead (or at least, directly overhead somewhere in your time zone). That’s the way God wants it to be! So instead of dicking around with the clocks we should stick with standard time and move all our work schedules back by a half hour.

    Easy peasy — you’re welcome!

  94. That title is about the environment. You fuckers don’t give a shit about the environment. You like poison. Probably love GMOs too. Fie on you.

  95. anon[177] • Disclaimer says:

    OT
    Cash bail is oppressive to POC’s, so good liberals have lined up to ban it. New York has taken the lead.

    Early results are in:

    https://nypost.com/2020/01/11/serial-robber-released-with-no-bail-then-immediately-robs-another-bank/

    Because Woodberry allegedly robbed using a note, rather than a gun, no New York jail can currently hold him, no matter how many times he strikes.

    His alleged grand larcenies are classified as non-violent felonies. And under the bail reform law that took effect Jan. 1, most non-violent felonies — including bank robberies carried out without a weapon — are no longer bail eligible, meaning no judge can order him held pending trial.

    Should cops pinch Woodberry on the fifth alleged heist, he’ll only be sprung again.

    The insanity of the new law clearly wasn’t lost on the prime suspect.

    “I can’t believe they let me out,” Woodberry marveled as he retrieved his vouchered property at One Police Plaza in lower Manhattan, sources told The Post. “What were they thinking?”

    Seems to be working well, or at least working as intended.

    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
  96. I totally agree that all of this started with the “Energy Crisis” (which had its genesis in the Yom Kippur War of October ’73–the price of gasoline doubled literally overnight and didn’t stop). Congress went into full panic mode which included fiddling with the time changes.

    I was living in NYC (Queens) at that time, and well do I remember leaving for work at 7:30 in the morning when it looked as though it was still midnight. Frankly, I think they should give up the ghost and go back to the pre-1973 status when DST started on the last Saturday of April and ended the last Saturday in October (except in the latter case they should stick with the first Saturday in November in deference to the little Trick or Treaters).

    It won’t happen of course.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @Jim Don Bob
  97. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    This can’t be the whole story. Plane manufacturing can be done outside of Kansas, even outside the US. If there was some way to make a modern plane for the price of a car given FAA regulation, product liability, etc. then someone somewhere would do it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  98. @Hypnotoad666

    China has only one time zone throughout its 60 degrees of longitude (with Beijing experiencing solar noon at 12:00):

    https://www.timeanddate.com/time/china/one-time-zone.html

    So the farthest western areas of China experience solar noon at 3:00 PM.

    I wasn’t aware of this until now. Mao collapsed the former 5 time zones into one in 1949.

  99. You Don’t Know What You Got ‘Til It’s Gone

    Whoa. The first thing that came to mind from that headline is that Joni has finally caught that big yellow taxi to her unpaved paradise. But Steve usually signals such milestones with “RIP” in the title.

    How long we’ll have Mrs Mitchell (it’s her former married name, as with Grace Slick and Pat Benatar) is open to question. She’s in a wheelchair after a stroke and/or aneurysm, and suffers from Morgellons disease, which sounds like Tourette’s-of-the-skin.

    She seems to be a good egg. She’s dismissed feminism and the “counterculture”, and happily performs for the armed forces. She may have written “Woodstock”, but spent that weekend appearing on Dick Cavett’s show.

    I have her autograph somewhere. I didn’t ask for it, nor did she push it on me. A stewardess introduced us and suggested it.

    • Replies: @Dube
  100. J.Ross says:

    The inevitable has finally happened: pedophile advances gender identity argument for raping kids because, in his mind, he is an eight year old girl.
    Damn it damn it damn it why lord why: The subject is a fat balding white guy who makes inappropriate Holocaust references in Michigan.

    “Under the law, Auschwitz was legal. What you’re doing here is wrong, just as Auschwitz was,” he said.

    https://meaww.com/michigan-pedophile-identifies-8-year-old-girl-child-porn-protected-first-amendment-free-speech

  101. marcavis says:

    The Brazilian North and Northeast regions did not have DST at all, for those curious about the uselessness of DST here. Although the capital city did, and it’s quite close to the Equator itself…

  102. J.Ross says:

    Talcum X attempts to join the wave of black hostility to Jews. An anon observes, “white people are waking up.”
    https://postimg.cc/zyfhFMYP

  103. If only there was some way workplaces and schools could shift the hours they start and end during winter, then we wouldn’t need DST.

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
  104. steve —

    at some point you should note the creeping, gibbering horror spreading through the other half of the unzsite — and perhaps consider finding a new place to roost. you don’t need to be associated with that shit.

    a *fren

  105. Charon says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    DST all year long on the west coast would make getting to school a living hell for kids in Seattle.

    Is there some reason they can’t just start school an hour later??

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
  106. @res

    It is impossible to make everyone in the US completely happy with a single time regime.

    I’ve long felt this way about soccer. Italy and Sweden have very different seasons. August-to-May vs. March-t0-November to be exact. One league for the entire US, in which the climate range is even more extreme, is nuts. I don’t know how the Russians pull it off. Roofs sure help.

    Spartak’s belozenged arena warms you up just by looking at it:

    With teams in Kaliningrad on the Baltic (N 20°27′11″E) and Knabarovsk (135°05′E), the minor-league second division has a serious time zone problem. It should be called the Jet Lag League:

    Brazil’s football structure is comparitively compact in comparison– 17 degrees of longitude, 22 of latitude.

    Why do they even need DST on the Tropic of Capricorn, anyway?

  107. We may be off with the rest of the world, but we’d be in alignment with Newfoundland Time. Enough so that they may join the US as the 51st state.

    Trade Puerto Ric for Newfoundland? IS anyone crazy enough to make that trade?

  108. There is a tremendous variety in the effects of these things depending at what latitude you live.

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
  109. nebulafox says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    One of the coolest things about the show was that it reflected the changes that Colorado was going through in real life. Early seasons, you have a small, relatively poor conservative mountain town, later seasons, you’ve got a left-leaning, increasingly upscale bourgeois exurb.

    Central Texas had a very similar dynamic, and King of the Hill reflected that, too.

    • Replies: @SFG
  110. ricpic says:

    Yeah, those black winter mornings are the worst. Let’s just go back to Standard Time all year.

  111. @Jonathan Mason

    38 degrees north.

    I get up at sunrise no matter what is on my computer clock which means that no daylight is wasted.

    Wasting daylight is more egregious than wasting food. Your uneaten brussels sprouts mean absolutely nothing to the people starving in Ethiopia.

  112. ricpic says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    In winter it’s wall to wall clouds except for a slight break at the horizon just before darkness falls.

  113. @Dave Pinsen

    Newfoundland is 30 minutes off from Atlantic time. There is a time zone, forget which, which is :15 and another that is :45.

    If you divide 360 degrees of longitude by 24 hours, each time zone would be 15 degrees. China spans 9 15 degree time zones, but the time is the same in all of them.

    DST and offsets from :00 are political. Countries have been known to move across the International Date Line for economic reasons.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  114. @(((They))) Live

    I tried to like that movie, but I thought it was retarded.

  115. istevefan says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Off hand, the P-39 fighter had the tricycle gear and an unusual engine placement. The B-25, B-26, A-20 and A-26 series of medium bombers/attackers had the tricycle too.

  116. @Hypnotoad666

    2:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m. never happens in the spring move to DST.

  117. istevefan says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Tricycle gear is much easier to land with,

    Here is some trivia for you. Most if not all of the tricycle gear planes of the past did not have a steerable nose wheel. I always assumed a nose gear in that layout was used to steer while taxing on the ground. Instead the nose gear was similar to a caster and you steered by either using differential braking, or by revving the engines on one wing or the other if you were a multi-engine plane.

    Nowadays it seems practically all nose gear-equipped planes have a steerable nose wheel.

  118. istevefan says:

    You Don’t Know What You Got ‘Til It’s Gone

    I’ll admit when I first saw the title of this post I thought it was going to be about the immivasion.

  119. SFG says:
    @nebulafox

    They’ve wimped out lately, but they actually were one of the few shows to make fun of liberals.

  120. SFG says:

    OT, but kind of fun, the two leftiest Dems started going after each other:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/13/us/politics/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-woman-president.html

    We all have to #believewomen, right? Maybe this will finally take Bernie down. Can’t say I’m all that pleased–the guy really doesn’t want more wars (he’s teamed up with Mike Lee to block military action in Iran), and actually fought to keep VA funding up. There’s always going to be a left, might as well have them going after wars and billionaires instead of random white men.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
  121. @Ano

    It’d be good if the USA could fall into line with South Australia and the Northern Territory. Have a heart Mr Sailer, and do it for the good people of Adelaide and Darwin.

    Australia appears to have a unique time zone, football rulebook, and Labour Day for each state. They only have two spellings of labor, though, and quickly ran out of names for states and territories, resorting to mere directions for the entire western half.

    If you have access to a private jet, you can do the New Year six times in one night, just in Australia and Alaska:

  122. markflag says:

    South Australia is already 30 minutes out of synch with the rest of the world as the time zone there is 30 minutes behind Sydney. There is the story that a Qantas flight was arriving in Adelaide when the cabin crew announced, “We are arriving in Adelaide, South Australia, please adjust your watches back thirty years.”

  123. Is there a specific constituency that keeps the clock change being a thing (concentrated benefit vs diffuse cost)? Or is it just a general principle of not allowing any changes to The System?

    • Replies: @anon
  124. @Kevin O'Keeffe

    Just for the record, most Americans are not routinely boarding airplanes.

    Well yeah, but only because they’re still stuck in the TSA ‘security theater’ lines.

  125. Dube says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    She may have written “Woodstock”, but spent that weekend appearing on Dick Cavett’s show.

    I was sitting against a wall at an Esalen concert when she came up and stood beside me to work out her rehearsal for what I think was the premiere for that song. I like to think that I provided some peace for her effort.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
  126. @Jim Don Bob

    Newfoundland is 30 minutes off from Atlantic time.

    We took advantage of that. The little ones want to see the year come in, but there is the danger of them falling asleep early. We had CBC live on YouTube, and got to see the baby in five times, at 9:30, 10:00, 11:00, midnight, and 1am CST. Actually, we watched Times Square, and went to Time.gov for our own, because there appeared to be a 40-second delay in the others. We could have watched Rio, too, had we thought of using the Brazilian channels Roku affords us.

    There is a time zone, forget which, which is :15 and another that is :45.

    Nepal and the Chatham Islands are fifteen minutes behind their nearest neighbor zone. None are fifteen minutes ahead. At the moment, at least.

    https://www.timeanddate.com/time/time-zones-interesting.html

    Oh, and I forgot Eucla, WA, pop. 53:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucla,_Western_Australia

    Eucla and the surrounding area, notably Mundrabilla and Madura in Western Australia and Border Village in South Australia, use the Central Western Time Zone of UTC+8:45. Although it has no official sanction, it is universally observed in this area, stopping just to the east of Caiguna.

    Nepal’s deviation seems appropriate for a country with such a weird flag. Perhaps Ohio could also shift fifteen minutes?

    Countries have been known to move across the International Date Line for economic reasons.

    Samoa skipped December 30, 2011 for that reason. Kiribati has the same time as Hawaii due north, but is a whole day ahead. At one hour, there are three different days going on the planet, just in the Gregorian calendar.

    Some of those island countries also shifted from right-hand traffic to left, because all their cars come from Australia or Asia. The Bahamas and US Virgin Islands haven’t done the opposite, though.

    The new bridge between Hong Kong and Macau is right-hand traffic, even though those two drive on the left. A side exit takes you to Shenzhen, and the Chinese call the shots.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  127. @Old Prude

    The ‘Farm Objection’ always struck me as particularly nonsensical. Farmers should take cues from their animals, their crops, and the land and the broad sky above. A harmony whereof the earth’s green hills / Give but the faintest echo; yet is there / And so on.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    , @J.Ross
  128. @Achmed E. Newman

    When Steve fails to post for a few hours you’re the first person I think of 😉

  129. @Mr McKenna

    A German friend of mine says that 60 days before the clock changes, the German cattle farmers start changing the milking time by 1 minute per day so the cows will properly adjust.

    Stupid Nazis should just keep their cows on the same clock all year round. Probably some labor regulation won’t let them do it.

    • Replies: @SFG
  130. anon[219] • Disclaimer says:
    @Prester John

    I totally agree that all of this started with the “Energy Crisis”

    The US first adopted DST in 1918. It was brought back during World War II.

    Then it was revived in the 1970’s.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_by_country

  131. J.Ross says:
    @Mr McKenna

    This reminds me of the acid-fuelled Russian luxury watch commercial Gerard Depardieu appeared in. He squats by a dead deer holding a rifle and informs the viewer that “to hunt, you must be on time.” It concludes with him gesturing to the deer and sagely observing, “and he was on time, too.”

  132. SFG says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    That is very German, though with the way the lefties have started talking I’m a lot more economical with my Nazi comparisons.

  133. Bolsonaro is right. Daylight Savings Time is nothing if not a violent metaphysical transportation 750 miles eastward into the adjacent time zone, with attendant poor man’s jet lag. Los Angeles is jammed into the standard time of El Paso. New York is flung into the middle Atlantic. All is chaos. Past machismo glory suffers as High Noon at the OK Corral disintegrates into the pusillanimity of wimpy 1:00 pm. Modernity, which has left us bereft of any organic connection to the phases of the moon or to the movement of the stars, snatches away even the pleasant incremental ebb and flow of seasonal sunlight. We are lesser sons of greater sires.

    • Replies: @MBlanc46
  134. Marty says:
    @theMann

    we live in the Era of peak travel

    Well, I haven’t flown since 10/11 but I don’t get this comment. Seems to me peak travel was around 1986, when it was not only cheap but you could pay cash at the last minute. Speaking of which, I overheard a guy telling the following story about that year.

    The guy was in a bar in SF on a a Friday afternoon with his buddy, a well-known radio DJ named Bobby. He asks Bobby what he wants to do tonight. Bobby says, “Ray Charles is playing this little club in Minneapolis, wanna go?” So they catch a flight, get to the club around 10 p.m., and hang around near the entrance. RC arrives with a blonde on each arm, and Bobby says, “Look at this guy, he thinks he’s white.” Ray Charles says, “fuck you, Bobby.”

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  135. MBlanc46 says:
    @Mr McKenna

    I don’t remember it that far back, but I do remember it in the mid-1970s, and it was pretty memorable.

  136. @Hypnotoad666

    We should get rid of 3:00 a.m. Nothing good ever happens at 3:00 a.m.

  137. MBlanc46 says:
    @Weston Waroda

    In which case each locale has to have it’s own time. The Sun is overhead at a different time in Chicago than in Kansas City.

  138. @prosa123

    Dear Search Engines,

    prosa123 means Amazon when he types Extremely Large Online Retailer.

    ScarletNumber

    • Troll: Charon
  139. This is one of those topics that gets the autistic all riled up.

  140. MBlanc46 says:
    @SFG

    But Sanders will go after random white men.

  141. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    I doubt the Russians, Chinese, even the Brazilians or the French are really concerned that much about American product liability if they didn’t have any assets in the US. You’d have to sue them in their own countries and it would be, as they say, a “non-starter”. You’d be laughed at.

    FAA regulation is odd in that the needed paperwork doesn’t fit into companies that want to have everything set up around schemes like ISO 9000 or Six Sigma, but it is not necessarily that expensive.
    The biggest problem is not having any volume, to offset the fixed costs. A modern automobile actually needs a lot more paperwork for the EPA and the NHTSA than aircraft do, but there you have volume.

    Piper was originally located in Lock Haven, PA and is now in Florida. Mooneys are occasionally made in Kerrville, TX, Maule in Moultrie, GA, and Cirrus is somewhere in Minnesota.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  142. Lagertha says:

    Neil DG has no children….so…the world is not interested in adults who have no children.

  143. Charon says:
    @J.Ross

    Sanders is surging, gotta love it. Maybe we’ll get Bernie vs Donald which is the matchup I was hoping for last time.

    Icing on the cake is that the NYT is apoplectic:

    [MORE]

    The New York Times published a lengthy interview with the candidate on Monday, framing the piece by reminding the reader of his recent heart attack and his support for leftist political movements “plagued” with “corruption and even violence.” Peppered throughout Sanders’ responses are links contradicting his claims, even “fact-checking” his reference to having been interviewed by the Times before (“All but three members of the current editorial board joined after Mr. Sanders’s endorsement interview in 2015,” it sniffs). The outlet hints that he is on the payroll of Big Vape (“campaign finance reports reveal that the Sanders campaign has accepted donations from Juul Labs employees”), attempts to frame his observation that exploitation of migrant workers drives wages down as anti-immigrant rhetoric, and makes much of his unfamiliarity with social media and smartphone apps (because he’s old, get it?!).

    https://www.rt.com/usa/478155-sanders-polls-warren-democrats-fear/

  144. Lagertha says:

    It was a boring movie about hookers.

  145. anon[219] • Disclaimer says:
    @Not My Economy

    Is there a specific constituency that keeps the clock change being a thing (concentrated benefit vs diffuse cost)?

    Golf courses. Extra sun for 9 holes after work. Obviously the golf industry and golf courses are behind DST. Obviously. Obviously

    It’s The Golf Kourse Konspiracy!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  146. @anon

    Indeed.

    My parents told me when I was a kid that Drive-In Movie owners were a big part of the anti-DST coalition in the referendum.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  147. @Marty

    Seems to me peak travel was around 1986, when it was not only cheap but you could pay cash at the last minute.

    Stewardesses noticed something odd– to them– in the early years of deregulation. Passengers were now paying close attention to the safety demonstration before the flight. These were first-time fliers.

    Not that long before, seats were filled with veteran travelers, who knew the drill and were bored.

    A voter once asked Ted Kennedy why he was pushing for deregulation when people like her couldn’t afford to fly. He answered, so people like you can afford to fly.

  148. You Don’t Know What You Got ‘Til It’s Gone

    How old is Joni anyway? I just had a dream in which I found myself sitting next to her in first class.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @ben tillman
  149. duncsbaby says:
    @anonymous

    Wasn’t a fan of hair metal but Cinderella were one of the few good ones. Singer had a great raspy, soulful voice.

  150. @anon

    A note? He got money with just a note? Something like this, perhaps: “I have a gub. Please abt natural.”

  151. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @ben tillman

    76.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
  152. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Mid engine sports cars and heavy buses should have the driver in the center, like the McLaren F1.

    It’s ironic that they switched from right hand traffic, which is nearly universal save Japan and the non-North-American Anglosphere, because Australia no longer makes cars, and China will soon be the dominant builder of cars in Asia. I think they have LHD cars, don’t they? Of course, a well designed car would be designed to be convertible from LHD to RHD for a fairly nominal cost, but cars are not well designed, except for low assembly cost.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Jack D
  153. @ben tillman

    And apparently Reg Caesar lived that dream some time ago.

  154. @Anonymous

    Mid engine sports cars and heavy buses should have the driver in the center, like the McLaren F1.

    Or the Panhard Dynamic:

    http://www.tbauto.org/panhard.html

    http://www.2blowhards.com/archives/2006/02/steering_left_right_or_center.html

    • Replies: @danand
  155. Simple solution: day starts at sunup, work starts (say) three hours after sunup, depending on the job. Automatic daylight savings. Obviously, this means checking the almanac before calling anyone long-distance, but with more and more stuff done online 24*7 it just doesn’t matter as much as it used to.

  156. TWS says:

    That latinx is as clunky as womyn.

  157. @PiltdownMan

    That’s Tokyo. In eastern Japan and Hokkaido it starts to get light at 3:30 am in the summer.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  158. JMcG says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    After having flown taildraggers exclusively for years, going back to tricycle year gave me fits. I can’t explain it, but there it is. Of course, it might also be returning to a yoke instead of a stick.

  159. JMcG says:
    @Anonymous

    You’ve made several intriguing comments on this theme, the past few years. Is there anywhere to go to get the full picture?

  160. Yawrate says:

    I live in Michigan which should be on central time but is on eastern instead. In northern Michigan in June and July it doesn’t get dark until 10 pm.

    I’m often in eastern Mass though and it’s just the opposite.

  161. Yawrate says:
    @ScarletNumber

    When you suffer from insomnia the change to and from DST is barely noticeable!

  162. @Prester John

    I totally agree that all of this started with the “Energy Crisis”…

    Nope. The Germans did DST first in WW1 supposedly to save energy. The savings have never been demonstrated.

  163. @Steve Sailer

    There is a drive-in theater near our place 100 miles north of Toronto. The first feature does not start until 9:45 because it is so light. The second feature of a double bill comes on at midnight.

    We get > 1 hour more daylight there at the Summer Solstice than we do here in the Imperial Capital. But in winter, it’s dark by 4:45. And cold. And snowy.

  164. @Foreign Expert

    There are 15 hours and 37 minutes of sunlight at the 45th parallel at the summer solstice, whether in Wakkanai or Wayzata. It’s not that extreme; by definition it is right in the middle. They must have an early bedtime.

    Four percent of Japanese live on Hokkaido, half in and around Sapporo, which is at the same latitude as Milwaukee and Buffalo. Other than centralist unitary-state intransigence, why can’t they go on DST by themselves, and let the rest of the country do as they please?

    The US, Canada, Mexico, Chile, and Australia allow for internal differences, albeit most of those are federations.

  165. @PiltdownMan

    Or maybe they don’t want to have the same time zone as Beijing.

    If it’s good enough for Ürümqi, it’s good enough for Tokyo!

    Oh, wait… maybe it’s not that good for Ürümqi:

    https://www.farwestchina.com/blog/xinjiang-time-a-tale-of-two-time-zones/

    The biggest time zone jump in the world is at the Afghan-Chinese border, three-and-a-half hours. Peking forces a single zone on the whole country, the far west be damned. Afghanistan’s Wakhan Corridor, that Schwenkel to their northeast, is an afterthought to an otherwise compact* country.

    In practice, it’s no big deal. The only ones permitted to cross are local peasants, who don’t believe in time.

    *To geographers, compact doesn’t mean small, but relatively closer to an ideal circle. Thus, Ohio is compact, but much smaller Maryland decidedly not.

  166. Anonymous[934] • Disclaimer says:

    Joni Mitchell is a first rate pop-folk singer and a first rate songwriter, which actually is rare for females or males: but her singular achievement was, being challenged physically from polio as a guitarist, she used various and well thought out modal and chordal tunings to get around her limitations and was a huge influence on the John Fahey school of fingerstyle players and on many rock and blues players, including Russia Cooder and Keith Richards.

    It is not an exaggeration to say that she is a musical genius.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  167. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    You read this backward – HK was always drive on the left because it was a UK colony. Macau, though it was Portuguese, is also drive on left because its economy was tied to HK’s. China has always been drive on the right. When they built the new link between HK and Macau they did it drive on the right because the link also branches off to the Chinese city of Zhuhai (and when you first come off the bridge you are briefly on Chinese territory). They didn’t want people driving on the wrong side of the street in Zhuhai. In fact the name of the bridge is HK-Zhuhai-Macao Bridge, not HK-Macao.

    I don’t know what % of the traffic is going to originate from China vs. Macao. Macao, although of historic importance, is physically very small. Even HK is going to have to adjust to the fact that they are no more than a pimple on China’s ass nowadays and not as important as they thought themselves to be.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    , @Reg Cæsar
  168. @Jack D

    Even HK is going to have to adjust to the fact that they are no more than a pimple on China’s ass nowadays and not as important as they thought themselves to be.

    I seriously doubt they thought much of their role within the British empire, except for the old petty resentments about being incorporated into the Crown’s holdings at gunpoint. Now that they’re fully cognizant of what it means to have the Eye of Sauron upon you rather the laissez faire attitude of the Crown re just about anything other than the organization of armed insurrection, I expect they just want out of the Chinese empire. I suspect that the majority who voted against Beijing’s functionaries in the recent elections wouldn’t mind the return of British rule.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
  169. @Jack D

    Macau, though it was Portuguese, is also drive on left because its economy was tied to HK’s.

    Portugal had left-hand traffic until 1928. The colonies that didn’t switch — Macau, Goa, East Timor, Mozambique– had land borders with LHT countries, or, as in Macau’s case, more reason to cross the sound than the land border with China.

    (I crossed the Macanese-Chinese border in 1985, and everything was still under construction. You can imagine what Shenzhen was like in 1928.)

    Japan made Korea and Taiwan drive on the left. Changing to the right was probably more a statement of national pride than an exercise in practicality. Thanks to giants India, Indonesia, Bangladesh, and Pakistan, almost a third of the world’s population drives on the left.

    Even HK is going to have to adjust to the fact that they are no more than a pimple on China’s ass nowadays and not as important as they thought themselves to be.

    That depends on the importance of financial centers. LA has eclipsed SF, but the latter is still pretty important.

  170. danand says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Reg Cæsar, those windows in the Dynamic’s A-pillars are fantastic!

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  171. I remember reading in an illustrated article in LIFE magazine in the late 1960s, when I was a kid, that Sweden switched from driving on the left to driving on the right, during the middle of a workday. The picture below fascinated me.

    Of course, it takes several years before everyone trades in their cars for cars with steering wheels on the right. Some poorer, smaller countries have imports of both kinds of models. As I discovered once, there’s an advantage to driving a car with the steering wheel on the wrong side. You are much closer to the cars you pass, making it easier to judge how closely separated you are, as you do.

  172. @Johann Ricke

    The last British Governor of Hong Kong, Chris Patten, got a very warm and friendly reception from its residents when he returned for a visit after the territory reverted to Chinese rule.

  173. @Dube

    She may have written “Woodstock”, but spent that weekend appearing on Dick Cavett’s show.

    I was sitting against a wall at an Esalen concert when she came up and stood beside me to work out her rehearsal for what I think was the premiere for that song. I like to think that I provided some peace for her effort.

    Wow.

    The UK band Matthew’s Southern Comfort’s version of “Woodstock” got almost no airplay here, but went to the top of the charts in the UK (and was the best known version there).

    A lot of people really like it for its take on the spirit of that event.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
  174. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    I drove a RHD Jaguar saloon in the United States for a while. It was an old Mark something whose dead DOHC six and piece of shit Borg Warner slushbox had been traded in for a Chevy six and THM350. It got sufficiently rusty I gave it to someone who used it for a demo derby car and that was that. It was fine on the road but drive throughs were out of the question when driving solo.

  175. @danand

    You need all the window you can get when you drive from the middle.

  176. OFF TOPIC: But apropos of the headline, with apologies to Mr. Sailer, and a hope he may publish this note.

    Mr. Sailer frequently posts “R.I.P. ….” entries, but as he has not as yet…..

    It’s as if the playwrights lost Shakespeare last week.

    Yesterday I learned Neil Peart passed away last week of brain cancer, which he had been battling privately for some three years.

    I remember watching Mr. Holland’s Opus years ago, when I was neither a father nor able to relate to what those most affected felt when John Lennon was murdered. Now I completely understand the feeling. While many of us realise Rush were never darlings of popular music, Mr. Peart’s contribution to the Western canon has been best, and most succinctly and accurately described by the phrase “your favourite drummer’s favourite drummer.”

    Unaware, just last week I cited Mr. Peart for evidence against the proposition that white people lack rhythm, foolishly unaware of my ironic timing. Perhaps less known for his lyrics – and even, often, mocked for them, because of his early penchant for derivative material, Peart wrote several books in his latter days and, famously, around the time of “Subdivisions” and his realisation of it’s visceral impact upon those living the lives it described, Peart went on to realise he was indeed capable of writing serious lyrics about the human condition that could affect his audience.

    He played until nearly the end, battling tenitis and injuries to his shoulder and back from a lifetime of holding himself to a standard no one else could possibly meet, stoically. And he retired when he realised he could not maintain that standard, refusing to become “fat Elvis.” (No disrespect to the King.)

    R.I.P., Neil Peart. A man who changed the world.

    Perhaps the most salient encomium, appreciable by even those not interested in music, or Mr. Peart’s music, and most appropriate for readers of The Unz Review:

    A man who practiced before rehearsals, gave his physical all. Overcame the loss of his family in private stoicism in an age of “me too” prideful victimhood, who decided he needed lessons to improve himself, in his forties, and studied under Peter Erskine when he was already acknowledged as the best drummer in the world, a multimillionaire having sold more than twenty million albums.

    (He replied to fan-mail with personal letters. He only ever wanted to be “just a guy,” he shunned fame and adulation – once, he gave me a T-shirt (“Shun-Pikin’ it Old School” – only because we both were enthusiasts of a certain brand of motorcycle) not that it is whatsoever about me, I only add that to emphasise that he was that down to Earth and an humble, approachable a guy….)

    Rather than re-post any of the countless, moving tributes to the man, the legend, I share, of it be published, on of his most powerful songs, which, to me, best sums up who he was, as a minor expression of respect and honor:

    R.I.P. to the greatest drummer who ever lived.

  177. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    including Russia Cooder and Keith Richards.

    I’m assuming you meant “Ry Cooder” and that some sort of demented autocomplete was involved.

    Funny thing is that Cooder has a pathological hate-on for Richards because he thinks Richards and the rest of the Stones ripped him off. In fact no one would have ever heard of him had it not been for him being on Let It Bleed.

  178. Rob (LM) says:

    Any view on the current Brazilian president’s apparent intention to destroy the Amazon rainforest completely? I know his baiting of leftists gains him credit around here, but isn’t this aggressive environmental vandalism a step too far?

  179. @PiltdownMan

    That version by Southern Comfort was ahead of its time. It sounds like it’s from ’76 or ’77. Very nicely done.

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