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Would Legalizing Crack Solve the Murder Problem?
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David Kennedy, professor of criminal justice at John Jay College, argues that over 80% of homicides among black gang members aren’t driven by the logic of the drug trade: “it’s street code nonsense, honor culture.” As an example, he points to a decade long beef with dozens of homicides in Hunters Point when he was in San Francisco that started over who would rap next at a neighborhood block party.

He also says 0.5% of the population in big cities is responsible for 50% of the murders.

I’m not sure how these different concepts fit together.

 
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  1. Just as it used to be accepted that every young man of the ruling class had a military obligation,and often joined up after college,so too should we recognize that young black males have an obligation to not kill people,and therefore every black male should,at the age of 16 or so,enter prison.
    They would stay til they calm down a bit. They would receive training and do useful work. They could build roads and such.
    This would be mandatory for all of them.

  2. Many of the people I rent properties to are on the cusp of not being able to function in society. ANY kind of substance abuse will send them over the edge. People who are intelligent and organised and earn large salaries seem to have no understanding of just how hard it is for many people just to live. My wife’s uncle has a farm and employed a guy to help him work it. He was really impressed with his attitude and work ethic. Then his girlfriend brought him ONE pill from Dunedin and it destroyed him. Legalising drugs may or may not increase the crime rate, but it certainly will fill your cities up with even more lost souls who have been reduced to the point where they can barely dress themselves.

    • Disagree: anonymous1963
    • Replies: @anon
    @22pp22


    Then his girlfriend brought him ONE pill from Dunedin and it destroyed him.
     
    Can you please elaborate? Why did the "girlfriend" bring such a deadly gift? (unless she wanted to murder him and steal his large estate). Why did he take some unknown pill for no reason? What is the ONE pill that can destroy? (I can think of Cyanide or Strychnine - but unlikely).

    Replies: @22pp22, @22pp22

    , @Michael S
    @22pp22

    Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on this one. There are a few drugs known for getting people hooked almost instantly, but none of them come in pill form, and no one who hasn't already experimented on a bunch of other drugs would ever try them. This kind of scare story is silly reefer madness folk wisdom that doesn't resemble reality at all.

    LSD can ruin a very small number of people's lives in a slightly different way - not by addiction, but by triggering some previously undetected psychosis - but it doesn't come in pill form.

    I'm sure there's some degree of truth to the story, but there's definitely more to it than what you were told. Either this guy had a prior history of drug abuse and had a relapse, or it was not just "one pill".

    And I'm going to be crystal clear here: plenty of people's lives do get destroyed by drugs, and some drugs (especially opiates) are far more likely than others to lead to that fate. Just not that quickly, barring certain "comorbidities", and there is always a cohort that does completely fine.

    Replies: @22pp22, @Almost Missouri, @Anonymouse

  3. Maybe, legalize it in superzips?

  4. Probably not but at this point what the hell, why not try it

  5. Decade long beef with dozens of homicides in Hunters Point when he was in San Francisco that started over who would rap next at a neighborhood block party.

    Europeans used to be like this, centuries ago (or decades for some ethnicities.) How did they stop? And is it a good thing that they stopped?

  6. Anonymous[286] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m not sure how these different concepts fit together.

    Sheeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiit!

  7. Isn’t the war on drugs like the war on alcohol (prohibition)?

  8. I’ve posted this video before, but damn it this does such a superb job capturing the (painfully simple) yet powerful cascades that lead to black-on-black homicide.

    A far more comprehensive work on the details and social impact of black homicide is this book. (Which is conveniently on Audible.)

  9. Superfreak Rick James put it this way:

  10. It sure is a good thing we’ve got smart people like this guy who can figure out how to mitigate the symptoms of multi-racialism so we don’t have to treat the underlying disease. If the Chinese were in our situation they would just deport them and lose out on all that human capital. What human capital you ask? Oh, it’ll appear any day now I’m sure.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Some Guy

    If you were the Chinese President and had 30 million Blacks in your country; where would you send them?

    Replies: @Some Guy, @epebble, @bruce county, @Pheasant, @Stephen Paul Foster, @Charles St. Charles

  11. Shit I don’t care make the shit legal just don’t send me the tab for their subsequent problems . You bet your life every time you use . I used to go to an AA meeting at Perry St. in the West Village . AA was good for me and a lot of other people . Some people say it’s a cult , maybe so but at that time it was what I needed . I remember one day between meetings a guy told that one day I would look back on this year as one of the best years of my life . He was right , suffering and pain focuses us and is the best of teachers . Any way there was this nice young White girl at the meetings who had a mild Heroine habit , just a silly confused young thing . Any way she slipped as they call it and OD’d and died . F**k man life is for real , no slack .
    When I was younger I never made a good choice : pot , ETOH , LSD , I shot meth , heroine and cocaine .
    Once I even ground up some LSD tabs into a suspension , chunks you feel me ? And shot that shit up , chunks ! I can’t believe somebody didn’t end up in the hospital . Nothing happened for about 15-20 min. Then as we were walking along the side of the garage we stepped , one step and we were tripping .
    Well it’s not up to me what policy the state chooses . It’s up to the venal elected scum who depend on the academic scum waving their tax payer subsidized nonsense solutions . And after each failure , after failing time after time they claim to have the solution and we being even dumber say oh , ok . Like some abused twat believes that her abusive boy friend won’t beat her dumb ass again .

    • Replies: @Neuday
    @donut

    Alright donut, you've written some crazy stuff but anyone who's shot ground LSD tabs and is now reading isteve deserves some slack.

  12. Legalizing crack would put a big pinch in the CIA budget so it ain’t happening.

  13. removing africans would solve the murder problem. have they tried that?

    i mean, it’s no more asinine than whatever new idiotic bullshit these people are suggesting every couple years.

    “Making murder legal would solve the murder problem” – moron policy maker in 2032.

    • Replies: @Drew
    @prime noticer

    Legalizing murder might actually solve the murder problem, purge-style. Can you imagine how many criminals would be preemptively killed if their killers didn't have to worry about being arrested for it?

  14. @Some Guy
    It sure is a good thing we've got smart people like this guy who can figure out how to mitigate the symptoms of multi-racialism so we don't have to treat the underlying disease. If the Chinese were in our situation they would just deport them and lose out on all that human capital. What human capital you ask? Oh, it'll appear any day now I'm sure.

    Replies: @Kronos

    If you were the Chinese President and had 30 million Blacks in your country; where would you send them?

    • Replies: @Some Guy
    @Kronos

    To black countries.

    , @epebble
    @Kronos

    First try USA; then other countries. If it fails, then Xinjiang or Tibet.

    I may be Chinese, but I have read Clausewitz.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    , @bruce county
    @Kronos


    If you were the Chinese President and had 30 million Blacks in your country; where would you send them?
     
    British Columbia. Let the Surrey Dots deal with them.
    , @Pheasant
    @Kronos

    Here i'll help:

    https://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/true-size-of-africa.jpg

    , @Stephen Paul Foster
    @Kronos

    "If you were the Chinese President and had 30 million Blacks in your country; where would you send them?"

    Its obvious: to Hollywood. To fill the shortage of brain surgeons, wise judges, brilliant scientists, inventors, mathematicians, compassionate, caring community organizers who counter the pervasive, bigoted brutality of white people.

    , @Charles St. Charles
    @Kronos


    If you were the Chinese President and had 30 million Blacks in your country; where would you send them?
     
    To the US of course; it’s a proven societal poison.
  15. Anon[629] • Disclaimer says:

    Does legal alcohol solve the alcoholic problem?

    Did legalizing pot in a few states solve the pot-smoking problem?

    Does legal gambling solve gambling addiction?

    No. An additive problem is biologically-based. The legality of it has zero effect on biology and genes. Unless, of course, you’re referring to ‘give them what they want good and so they die off and don’t reproduce.’

    • Agree: Kyle
    • Replies: @Fluesterwitz
    @Anon


    Does legal alcohol solve the alcoholic problem?
     
    Nope, but it largely solves/prevents the crime problem connected with the supply of illegal alcohol.
    , @scrivener3
    @Anon

    no it's because you don't get to decide what is good for them or them for you

    I know some Catholics who have strong opinions about your morality. in America they are powerless to force you to do anything.

    teetotalers think they have discovered a universal truth. I say mind your own business

  16. Anon[368] • Disclaimer says:

    That solution is so 20th Century. The 21st Century is to send the black ppl out to the suburbs and rural areas so they are killing white people instead of each other. Take it to the suburbs!

    Suburbs won’t be able to get the millions of dollars they’re used to in HUD grants unless they eliminate single-family zoning and densify their business districts. AFFH also forces HUD-grant recipients to sign pledges to “affirmatively further fair housing.” Those pledges could get suburbs sued by civil-rights groups, or by the feds, if they don’t get rid of single-family zoning. The only defense suburbs have against this two-pronged attack is to refuse HUD grants. True, that will effectively redistribute huge amounts of suburban money to cities, but if they give up their HUD grants at least the suburbs will be free of federal control.

    The Booker approach — now endorsed by Biden — may block even this way out. Booker wants to hold suburban zoning hostage not only to HUD grants, but to the federal transportation grants used by states to build and repair highways. It may be next to impossible for suburbs to opt out of those state-run highway repairs. Otherwise, suburban roads will deteriorate and suburban access to major arteries will be blocked. AFFH plus the Booker plan will leave America’s suburbs with no alternative but to eliminate their single-family zoning and turn over their planning to the feds. Slowly but surely, suburbs will become helpless satellites of the cities they surround, exactly as progressive urbanists intend.

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/06/joe-bidens-plan-to-abolish-the-suburbs.php

    “Black people have largely been expelled from the US agricultural landscape. In 1920, nearly a million Black farmers worked on 41.4 million acres of land, making up a seventh of farm owners. Today, only about 49,000 of them remain, making up just 1.4 percent of the nation’s farm owners, and tending a scant 4.7 million acres—a nearly 90 percent loss.”

    https://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message4440846/pg1

    • Thanks: Charon
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Anon


    In 1920, nearly a million Black farmers worked on 41.4 million acres of land, making up a seventh of farm owners. Today, only about 49,000 of them remain
     
    Wait, "41.4 million acres of land" ÷ "nearly a million Black farmers" = That's already more than forty acres and a mule!
  17. Would Legalizing Crack Solve the Murder Problem?

    No.

    I don’t remember which book it was in but didn’t P.J.O’Rourke say, or quote a cop as saying; ‘if these people breathe air it should be illegal’?

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
    • Troll: Pheasant
    • Replies: @Pheasant
    @Gordo

    Sorry meant to hit LOL

  18. Legalizing drugs will definitely create more addicts. No doubt. This is a big negative that needs to be carefully considered.

    But, if the war on drugs has shown us anything it’s that drug prohibition will not stop drugs from being sold and consumed. The war on drugs reminds me of Afghanistan. No one has any illusions it works, no one publicly supports it, and yet it continues to consume lives and huge amounts of money.

    What drug prohibition does is:
    – forces vulnerable people to buy unregulated products from unscrupulous criminals in dangerous environments

    – leads to police state tactics that exist in many inner cities because you have to ratchet up social control to enforce vice crime

    – creates huge profit margins for criminal enterprises and therefore require similar budgets for police to be able to compete with criminals.

    So, I do think that legalizing drugs is something that politicians should take really serious look at. But, I’m cautious because I have a libertarian streak in me and that might make me less likely to see the negative consequences.

    • Replies: @fitzhamilton
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    "Our" presence in Afghanistan is all about control of opium poppies, rare earth metals, and as a check on the geopolitical board vs. China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan and India. "We" are in "the Great Game," that's why "we" cannot and will not leave.

    "Our" obnoxious idiotic drug policy is all about the eugenic culling of retards. It's about stoking the meltdown and political dissolution of the retrograde and deplorable elements of our society, while making the drug companies some sweet returns and giving CIA some sweet cash on the side to send to "our friends" in places like Venezuela, Bolivia, Kurdistan, the Sunni Islamic Caliphate in Iraq, Libya, Syria and who ever promises to destabilize Iran..

    , @Almost Missouri
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    As is often the case, this kind of discussion gets cul-de-sac-ed into a comparison with a perfect utopia that doesn't exist. A dispassionate comparison of the damage of an open market drug free-for-all versus the damage of the ongoing war on drugs would be much more informative, but I've never seen it. In the real world it may not matter much because what actually happens is that local populations (aka voters) demand an end to the unregulated local drug trade. Authorities comply and you're back to some version of the "war on drugs".

    This happened in the late 1980s-early 1990s when black community leaders complained that crack—and crack violence—was epidemic in their communities because the police were neglecting them, and because prosecutors and courts were not punishing convicts sufficiently. Since no one wanted to gainsay black community leaders, policing, prosecution and penalties of crack-related offenses were duly increased. This did suppress crack-crime, but a decade later this was seamlessly retconned into "brutally oppressive policing of communities of color" or whatever.

    Or there was a much more recent experiment in libertarian utopianism when Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP created a self-"governing" unregulated "street fair" market "summer of love", free from the brutal oppression of Seattle's goodwhite liberal theocracy, and ...

    ... immediately set world records for murder and mayhem.

    https://twitter.com/nathancofnas/status/1278756948855255040

    Replies: @Alden

    , @Jesse
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    By that logic, places like South Central in the 1980s should've realized that the War on Murder was failing, and just legalized it.

    What's an acceptable number of people getting their lives ruined by legal drugs? (Being chaotic and/or lower IQ shouldn't be a death sentence.)

    And, considering that most people are not sociopaths willing to let their fellow citizens die in the gutter, how will you get past the shared social costs? What about people who get caught in the crossfire, so to speak? Should innocent neighbors and relatives (including children) be destroyed? Again, what's an acceptable number for you?


    How will you face these people ruining one area, and maybe moving to ruin others? Restriction of in-couuntry movement isn't very libertarian.

  19. @Kronos
    @Some Guy

    If you were the Chinese President and had 30 million Blacks in your country; where would you send them?

    Replies: @Some Guy, @epebble, @bruce county, @Pheasant, @Stephen Paul Foster, @Charles St. Charles

    To black countries.

  20. @Kronos
    @Some Guy

    If you were the Chinese President and had 30 million Blacks in your country; where would you send them?

    Replies: @Some Guy, @epebble, @bruce county, @Pheasant, @Stephen Paul Foster, @Charles St. Charles

    First try USA; then other countries. If it fails, then Xinjiang or Tibet.

    I may be Chinese, but I have read Clausewitz.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @epebble

    I think what Kronos was asking was


    If you had Chinese Dictator-Ike power in the US , where there are already 30 million Blacks [more like 40 million, but whatever], where would you send them?
     
    So you can't say "USA" because that's where they already are. And real China's not gonna be dumb enough to take them.

    So you're left with some version Back To Africa, or carve out a new Bantustan/Wakanda for them somewhere, probably either in an African country that doesn't have a real good grasp on its territory (eg Congo) or in some Black Belt counties in the Southern US.
  21. @Kronos
    @Some Guy

    If you were the Chinese President and had 30 million Blacks in your country; where would you send them?

    Replies: @Some Guy, @epebble, @bruce county, @Pheasant, @Stephen Paul Foster, @Charles St. Charles

    If you were the Chinese President and had 30 million Blacks in your country; where would you send them?

    British Columbia. Let the Surrey Dots deal with them.

  22. anon[225] • Disclaimer says:
    @22pp22
    Many of the people I rent properties to are on the cusp of not being able to function in society. ANY kind of substance abuse will send them over the edge. People who are intelligent and organised and earn large salaries seem to have no understanding of just how hard it is for many people just to live. My wife's uncle has a farm and employed a guy to help him work it. He was really impressed with his attitude and work ethic. Then his girlfriend brought him ONE pill from Dunedin and it destroyed him. Legalising drugs may or may not increase the crime rate, but it certainly will fill your cities up with even more lost souls who have been reduced to the point where they can barely dress themselves.

    Replies: @anon, @Michael S

    Then his girlfriend brought him ONE pill from Dunedin and it destroyed him.

    Can you please elaborate? Why did the “girlfriend” bring such a deadly gift? (unless she wanted to murder him and steal his large estate). Why did he take some unknown pill for no reason? What is the ONE pill that can destroy? (I can think of Cyanide or Strychnine – but unlikely).

    • Thanks: Charon
    • Replies: @22pp22
    @anon

    I don't know exactly what was in the pill except that it was recreational and he never got his life back. It was a birthday present.

    , @22pp22
    @anon

    If you really think people who are already "challenged" can take drugs and get away with it, you need to get out more. May I recommend a trip to San Francisco?

    Replies: @anon

  23. Would Legalizing Crack Solve the Murder Problem?

    Nah:

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Gordo
    @Reg Cæsar

    Never so glad of the Hide More button.

    , @Neuday
    @Reg Cæsar

    Reg, please keep your porn collection to yourself.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  24. TGGP says:

    Peter Moskos, who actually was a Baltimore cop for a while, said that basically all the homicides he dealt with stemmed from the drug trade (though that did include stupid beefing). That’s one guys view, but another thing worth considering is the impact on international homicide rates of access to US drug markets. That’s why latin America is more homicidal than Africa.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @TGGP

    My vague impression is that Mexico got a lot more homicidal after Mexico took the cocaine traffic away from Colombia in the early 1990s, but who knows how reliable old Mexican crime stats are. Driving around Mexico in the 1960s to 1980s I didn't see a lot of guns, but by the 1990s there were guys with heavy firepower standing around everywhere, so I stopped going to Mexico.

    There are also big differences in published murder rates in Central American countries, with leftist-run Nicaragua being much lower than, say, rightist-run Honduras. But, once again, who knows about Central American crime stats?

    Replies: @Skylark Thibedeau, @Voltarde, @al-Gharaniq, @Not Raul, @syonredux

  25. @NJ Transit Commuter
    Legalizing drugs will definitely create more addicts. No doubt. This is a big negative that needs to be carefully considered.

    But, if the war on drugs has shown us anything it’s that drug prohibition will not stop drugs from being sold and consumed. The war on drugs reminds me of Afghanistan. No one has any illusions it works, no one publicly supports it, and yet it continues to consume lives and huge amounts of money.

    What drug prohibition does is:
    - forces vulnerable people to buy unregulated products from unscrupulous criminals in dangerous environments

    - leads to police state tactics that exist in many inner cities because you have to ratchet up social control to enforce vice crime

    - creates huge profit margins for criminal enterprises and therefore require similar budgets for police to be able to compete with criminals.

    So, I do think that legalizing drugs is something that politicians should take really serious look at. But, I’m cautious because I have a libertarian streak in me and that might make me less likely to see the negative consequences.

    Replies: @fitzhamilton, @Almost Missouri, @Jesse

    “Our” presence in Afghanistan is all about control of opium poppies, rare earth metals, and as a check on the geopolitical board vs. China, Russia, Iran, Pakistan and India. “We” are in “the Great Game,” that’s why “we” cannot and will not leave.

    “Our” obnoxious idiotic drug policy is all about the eugenic culling of retards. It’s about stoking the meltdown and political dissolution of the retrograde and deplorable elements of our society, while making the drug companies some sweet returns and giving CIA some sweet cash on the side to send to “our friends” in places like Venezuela, Bolivia, Kurdistan, the Sunni Islamic Caliphate in Iraq, Libya, Syria and who ever promises to destabilize Iran..

  26. @TGGP
    Peter Moskos, who actually was a Baltimore cop for a while, said that basically all the homicides he dealt with stemmed from the drug trade (though that did include stupid beefing). That's one guys view, but another thing worth considering is the impact on international homicide rates of access to US drug markets. That's why latin America is more homicidal than Africa.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    My vague impression is that Mexico got a lot more homicidal after Mexico took the cocaine traffic away from Colombia in the early 1990s, but who knows how reliable old Mexican crime stats are. Driving around Mexico in the 1960s to 1980s I didn’t see a lot of guns, but by the 1990s there were guys with heavy firepower standing around everywhere, so I stopped going to Mexico.

    There are also big differences in published murder rates in Central American countries, with leftist-run Nicaragua being much lower than, say, rightist-run Honduras. But, once again, who knows about Central American crime stats?

    • Replies: @Skylark Thibedeau
    @Steve Sailer

    When do Leftists governments ever post stats showing there is a problem with crime? They just use the dialectic to redefine crime.

    , @Voltarde
    @Steve Sailer

    Violence in many less-developed countries increased in tandem with increases in foreign remittances sent back home by migrants who had made it to developed countries. Those remittances didn't just buy life's necessities. Or a better way to put it may be that in Mexico, Somalia, etc. guns and ammunition (hell, Toyota pickups and light ordinance) soon became some of life's necessities. Since the 1970s, more impoverished migrants landing in Western countries = more remittances back home = more armed conflict in poorer countries that previously couldn't afford much of it.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @al-Gharaniq
    @Steve Sailer

    What perplexes me about Mexico and the Mexican cartels is if the cartels have enough money and influence, why don't they push for the legalization of their business? Surely, the amount of money lost on guns, protection, and smuggling schemes cuts into their profit margins by quite a bit, enough so that having it legalized (and monopolized) would make them more money.

    It just seems bizarre that these multiple large cartels haven't decided to coordinate with each other to legalize their trade in order to make more money; I get that it being illegal does drive the price up, but at some point, once an operation is large enough, having it legalized would increase profits.

    , @Not Raul
    @Steve Sailer

    Honduras is a major center of drug trafficking, and has been since the 1970s. The President’s brother, Tony Hernández, is a convicted drug trafficker.

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kzvgvx/how-cocaine-fueled-corruption-helped-spark-the-migrant-caravan

    It’s not at all surprising that Honduras would have a high murder rate. I wouldn’t be surprised if the actual murder rate were even higher than the official statistics suggest.

    , @syonredux
    @Steve Sailer


    My vague impression is that Mexico got a lot more homicidal after Mexico took the cocaine traffic away from Colombia in the early 1990s,
     
    According to this fellow, Mexico was a pretty violent place in the 1960s...

    [R]epetition of the mantra “this is the bloodiest era in the country’s history since the Mexican Revolution” (Analysis, 4 April) does not make it true. The Cristero (Catholic) insurgency of the late 1920s (ie after the revolution) generated homicide rates of 200 per 100,000 (the standard metric), compared to 24 per 100,000 in 2011; more significantly, the homicide rate in 1940 was 67 per 100,000; and even circa 1960 – when no revolts happened and the “Peace of the PRI” (the then ruling party) prevailed – it was higher than it is today.

     

    Alan Knight
    Professor of the history of Latin America, Oxford University

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/10/mexico-murder-rate
  27. @anon
    @22pp22


    Then his girlfriend brought him ONE pill from Dunedin and it destroyed him.
     
    Can you please elaborate? Why did the "girlfriend" bring such a deadly gift? (unless she wanted to murder him and steal his large estate). Why did he take some unknown pill for no reason? What is the ONE pill that can destroy? (I can think of Cyanide or Strychnine - but unlikely).

    Replies: @22pp22, @22pp22

    I don’t know exactly what was in the pill except that it was recreational and he never got his life back. It was a birthday present.

  28. @anon
    @22pp22


    Then his girlfriend brought him ONE pill from Dunedin and it destroyed him.
     
    Can you please elaborate? Why did the "girlfriend" bring such a deadly gift? (unless she wanted to murder him and steal his large estate). Why did he take some unknown pill for no reason? What is the ONE pill that can destroy? (I can think of Cyanide or Strychnine - but unlikely).

    Replies: @22pp22, @22pp22

    If you really think people who are already “challenged” can take drugs and get away with it, you need to get out more. May I recommend a trip to San Francisco?

    • Replies: @anon
    @22pp22

    I didn't mean to challenge you; I was just curious (as a person interested in bio/chemistry) what is that potent compound. But I agree, they are a sample from the highly dysfunctional segment of our population, which I no doubt know exists.

  29. @Kronos
    @Some Guy

    If you were the Chinese President and had 30 million Blacks in your country; where would you send them?

    Replies: @Some Guy, @epebble, @bruce county, @Pheasant, @Stephen Paul Foster, @Charles St. Charles

    Here i’ll help:

    • Thanks: Coemgen
  30. @Gordo

    Would Legalizing Crack Solve the Murder Problem?
     
    No.

    I don't remember which book it was in but didn't P.J.O'Rourke say, or quote a cop as saying; 'if these people breathe air it should be illegal'?

    Replies: @Pheasant

    Sorry meant to hit LOL

    • Thanks: Gordo
  31. @Reg Cæsar

    Would Legalizing Crack Solve the Murder Problem?
     
    Nah:


    https://i.imgur.com/GbjhSOB.jpg

    Replies: @Gordo, @Neuday

    Never so glad of the Hide More button.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
  32. @22pp22
    Many of the people I rent properties to are on the cusp of not being able to function in society. ANY kind of substance abuse will send them over the edge. People who are intelligent and organised and earn large salaries seem to have no understanding of just how hard it is for many people just to live. My wife's uncle has a farm and employed a guy to help him work it. He was really impressed with his attitude and work ethic. Then his girlfriend brought him ONE pill from Dunedin and it destroyed him. Legalising drugs may or may not increase the crime rate, but it certainly will fill your cities up with even more lost souls who have been reduced to the point where they can barely dress themselves.

    Replies: @anon, @Michael S

    Yeah, I’m calling bullshit on this one. There are a few drugs known for getting people hooked almost instantly, but none of them come in pill form, and no one who hasn’t already experimented on a bunch of other drugs would ever try them. This kind of scare story is silly reefer madness folk wisdom that doesn’t resemble reality at all.

    LSD can ruin a very small number of people’s lives in a slightly different way – not by addiction, but by triggering some previously undetected psychosis – but it doesn’t come in pill form.

    I’m sure there’s some degree of truth to the story, but there’s definitely more to it than what you were told. Either this guy had a prior history of drug abuse and had a relapse, or it was not just “one pill”.

    And I’m going to be crystal clear here: plenty of people’s lives do get destroyed by drugs, and some drugs (especially opiates) are far more likely than others to lead to that fate. Just not that quickly, barring certain “comorbidities”, and there is always a cohort that does completely fine.

    • Replies: @22pp22
    @Michael S

    If you look through my comment thread, you will find it is entirely consistent. If I wrote bullshit, it wouldn't be.

    The guy was not a personal friend and he may well have had a history of drug abuse. In fact, I would be surprised if he didn't. He was not all there to start with. It's not a scare story.

    Alcohol is not much better. Last year one of my tenants had not been seen around for a few days and I went to check on him. I leave the rest to your imagination.

    Drug mess up people who are already troubled. Fact. And people who are troubled often have a history of taking drugs.

    Have you had had as much to do with various recreational drugs as you claim? If so, your mind is so addled, you don't know what you're saying.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    , @Almost Missouri
    @Michael S


    There are a few drugs known for getting people hooked almost instantly
     
    It's not always a question of getting "hooked". As I recall, Kesey's early Acid Tests had something like 5% rate of non-recovery, where LSD users weren't necessarily "hooked", but they were never functional again. You can say, well that's all just "triggering some previously undetected psychosis", but "undetected" is the key word in that tautology.

    In any case, this is largely a matter of semantics:

    "Yeah I may be a drug addict now, but I wasn't 'hooked' until my fifth time doing heroin."

    "Why did you take heroin the second, third, fourth and fifth times if you weren't addicted?"

    "Well, I liked it the first time. ... But I wasn't addicted then, I just liked it. So after that I wanted to get back to that original feeling, y'know? But I wasn't hooked or anything."

    Every addict had a first dose.


    there is always a cohort that does completely fine.
     
    There is always a cohort that does completely fine playing Russian Routlette (as high as 5/6ths in some studies*), but that's hardly an endorsement for Russian Roulette.

    *For some reason, long longitudinal studies fail to find many subjects.

    Replies: @MBlanc46

    , @Anonymouse
    @Michael S

    >LSD can ruin a very small number of people’s lives in a slightly different way – not by addiction, but by triggering some previously undetected psychosis – but it doesn’t come in pill form.

    That's wrong. LSD comes in pill form. The one time I took LSD - in the hills above Lower Lake in California in 1984 - it was in the form of a small blue bill. That it was LSD was established by the effects I experienced: the optical illusions in the clouds and the carpet which took to waving like waves in the sea, the disassociation between intention and execution, other oddities which would take too long to describe. The one lasting insight was recognizing that the visual style of rock concert posters featuring wavy halos around the images was based on the effect of LSD on the optic nerve. There were transitory illusory insights which would also take too long to describe.

  33. @NJ Transit Commuter
    Legalizing drugs will definitely create more addicts. No doubt. This is a big negative that needs to be carefully considered.

    But, if the war on drugs has shown us anything it’s that drug prohibition will not stop drugs from being sold and consumed. The war on drugs reminds me of Afghanistan. No one has any illusions it works, no one publicly supports it, and yet it continues to consume lives and huge amounts of money.

    What drug prohibition does is:
    - forces vulnerable people to buy unregulated products from unscrupulous criminals in dangerous environments

    - leads to police state tactics that exist in many inner cities because you have to ratchet up social control to enforce vice crime

    - creates huge profit margins for criminal enterprises and therefore require similar budgets for police to be able to compete with criminals.

    So, I do think that legalizing drugs is something that politicians should take really serious look at. But, I’m cautious because I have a libertarian streak in me and that might make me less likely to see the negative consequences.

    Replies: @fitzhamilton, @Almost Missouri, @Jesse

    As is often the case, this kind of discussion gets cul-de-sac-ed into a comparison with a perfect utopia that doesn’t exist. A dispassionate comparison of the damage of an open market drug free-for-all versus the damage of the ongoing war on drugs would be much more informative, but I’ve never seen it. In the real world it may not matter much because what actually happens is that local populations (aka voters) demand an end to the unregulated local drug trade. Authorities comply and you’re back to some version of the “war on drugs”.

    This happened in the late 1980s-early 1990s when black community leaders complained that crack—and crack violence—was epidemic in their communities because the police were neglecting them, and because prosecutors and courts were not punishing convicts sufficiently. Since no one wanted to gainsay black community leaders, policing, prosecution and penalties of crack-related offenses were duly increased. This did suppress crack-crime, but a decade later this was seamlessly retconned into “brutally oppressive policing of communities of color” or whatever.

    Or there was a much more recent experiment in libertarian utopianism when Seattle’s CHAZ/CHOP created a self-“governing” unregulated “street fair” market “summer of love”, free from the brutal oppression of Seattle’s goodwhite liberal theocracy, and …

    … immediately set world records for murder and mayhem.

    • Thanks: Charon
    • Replies: @Alden
    @Almost Missouri

    To be fair, the homeless 16 year old and his 14 year old brother did carjack someone’s car. The owner and “security” were following the kids when they were shot. I don’t believe any parents of those boys have come forward.

  34. Did you listen to Kennedy’s talk up to the point where he talks about the criminal record of the violent gang members in Cincinnati? Young men with an average of 10 prior felonies to their credit. Clearly only defunding the police and paying for a lot more social work and crushing every sign of systemic racism will solve this problem.

  35. @epebble
    @Kronos

    First try USA; then other countries. If it fails, then Xinjiang or Tibet.

    I may be Chinese, but I have read Clausewitz.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    I think what Kronos was asking was

    If you had Chinese Dictator-Ike power in the US , where there are already 30 million Blacks [more like 40 million, but whatever], where would you send them?

    So you can’t say “USA” because that’s where they already are. And real China’s not gonna be dumb enough to take them.

    So you’re left with some version Back To Africa, or carve out a new Bantustan/Wakanda for them somewhere, probably either in an African country that doesn’t have a real good grasp on its territory (eg Congo) or in some Black Belt counties in the Southern US.

  36. @Michael S
    @22pp22

    Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on this one. There are a few drugs known for getting people hooked almost instantly, but none of them come in pill form, and no one who hasn't already experimented on a bunch of other drugs would ever try them. This kind of scare story is silly reefer madness folk wisdom that doesn't resemble reality at all.

    LSD can ruin a very small number of people's lives in a slightly different way - not by addiction, but by triggering some previously undetected psychosis - but it doesn't come in pill form.

    I'm sure there's some degree of truth to the story, but there's definitely more to it than what you were told. Either this guy had a prior history of drug abuse and had a relapse, or it was not just "one pill".

    And I'm going to be crystal clear here: plenty of people's lives do get destroyed by drugs, and some drugs (especially opiates) are far more likely than others to lead to that fate. Just not that quickly, barring certain "comorbidities", and there is always a cohort that does completely fine.

    Replies: @22pp22, @Almost Missouri, @Anonymouse

    If you look through my comment thread, you will find it is entirely consistent. If I wrote bullshit, it wouldn’t be.

    The guy was not a personal friend and he may well have had a history of drug abuse. In fact, I would be surprised if he didn’t. He was not all there to start with. It’s not a scare story.

    Alcohol is not much better. Last year one of my tenants had not been seen around for a few days and I went to check on him. I leave the rest to your imagination.

    Drug mess up people who are already troubled. Fact. And people who are troubled often have a history of taking drugs.

    Have you had had as much to do with various recreational drugs as you claim? If so, your mind is so addled, you don’t know what you’re saying.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @22pp22

    I know what you're talking about. I have a tendency to drink too much--like a 1/2 bottle or more of whisky a night (by the way, I always show up for work and always sober; also, my liver is fine after years living this way--I attribute that to avoiding sugar, bread, and pasta). I can stop drinking completely if it's all out of the house and I have other things to occupy my mind. I can also drink in moderation on most days if I drink daily. But what I cannot get myself to do yet is stop drinking for a few days, then have one drink, then stop again for a few days, then one drink, etc. If I stop for a while, that one drink sets me back to my old patterns.

    I still remember my first glass of straight liquor--1/2 gin and 1/2 Stone's ginger wine. The feeling was amI could literally feel the alcohol spreading around my body as this core of heat in my stomach slowly migrated out to my toes. I have never felt that feeling again, but never forgotten it.

    I also am pretty sure I have avoided opiate addiction only because I can't get it. I got a hold of Tylenol with codeine once and took it just to see the effects. That was really sweet, and again the effects still seem very immediate in my memory. Same with cigars. Ever since the first one, I think about them all the time even though I rarely smoke.

    A single dose of something may not cause a physical addiction, but for the chronically bored or unhappy, psychological addiction can occur with anything at any time I believe.

  37. @Michael S
    @22pp22

    Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on this one. There are a few drugs known for getting people hooked almost instantly, but none of them come in pill form, and no one who hasn't already experimented on a bunch of other drugs would ever try them. This kind of scare story is silly reefer madness folk wisdom that doesn't resemble reality at all.

    LSD can ruin a very small number of people's lives in a slightly different way - not by addiction, but by triggering some previously undetected psychosis - but it doesn't come in pill form.

    I'm sure there's some degree of truth to the story, but there's definitely more to it than what you were told. Either this guy had a prior history of drug abuse and had a relapse, or it was not just "one pill".

    And I'm going to be crystal clear here: plenty of people's lives do get destroyed by drugs, and some drugs (especially opiates) are far more likely than others to lead to that fate. Just not that quickly, barring certain "comorbidities", and there is always a cohort that does completely fine.

    Replies: @22pp22, @Almost Missouri, @Anonymouse

    There are a few drugs known for getting people hooked almost instantly

    It’s not always a question of getting “hooked”. As I recall, Kesey’s early Acid Tests had something like 5% rate of non-recovery, where LSD users weren’t necessarily “hooked”, but they were never functional again. You can say, well that’s all just “triggering some previously undetected psychosis”, but “undetected” is the key word in that tautology.

    In any case, this is largely a matter of semantics:

    “Yeah I may be a drug addict now, but I wasn’t ‘hooked’ until my fifth time doing heroin.”

    “Why did you take heroin the second, third, fourth and fifth times if you weren’t addicted?”

    “Well, I liked it the first time. … But I wasn’t addicted then, I just liked it. So after that I wanted to get back to that original feeling, y’know? But I wasn’t hooked or anything.”

    Every addict had a first dose.

    there is always a cohort that does completely fine.

    There is always a cohort that does completely fine playing Russian Routlette (as high as 5/6ths in some studies*), but that’s hardly an endorsement for Russian Roulette.

    *For some reason, long longitudinal studies fail to find many subjects.

    • Agree: Gabe Ruth
    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    @Almost Missouri

    One of my brothers-in-law told me that he did freebase cocaine once. After he did it, he said that the only thing in the world that he wanted was to do it again. That was sufficient to let him know that he’d better not do it again. So, perhaps you can handle anything once, but there might be some things that you can’t handle rwice.

  38. It would be interesting to see an updated version of David Kennedy’s presentation with the past 6 years of crime data. I suspect that recent trends (e.g. Chicago, New York, ‘the Ferguson effect) belie many of his proposed interventions.

  39. @Anon
    That solution is so 20th Century. The 21st Century is to send the black ppl out to the suburbs and rural areas so they are killing white people instead of each other. Take it to the suburbs!

    Suburbs won’t be able to get the millions of dollars they’re used to in HUD grants unless they eliminate single-family zoning and densify their business districts. AFFH also forces HUD-grant recipients to sign pledges to “affirmatively further fair housing.” Those pledges could get suburbs sued by civil-rights groups, or by the feds, if they don’t get rid of single-family zoning. The only defense suburbs have against this two-pronged attack is to refuse HUD grants. True, that will effectively redistribute huge amounts of suburban money to cities, but if they give up their HUD grants at least the suburbs will be free of federal control.

    The Booker approach — now endorsed by Biden — may block even this way out. Booker wants to hold suburban zoning hostage not only to HUD grants, but to the federal transportation grants used by states to build and repair highways. It may be next to impossible for suburbs to opt out of those state-run highway repairs. Otherwise, suburban roads will deteriorate and suburban access to major arteries will be blocked. AFFH plus the Booker plan will leave America’s suburbs with no alternative but to eliminate their single-family zoning and turn over their planning to the feds. Slowly but surely, suburbs will become helpless satellites of the cities they surround, exactly as progressive urbanists intend.
     

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/06/joe-bidens-plan-to-abolish-the-suburbs.php

    "Black people have largely been expelled from the US agricultural landscape. In 1920, nearly a million Black farmers worked on 41.4 million acres of land, making up a seventh of farm owners. Today, only about 49,000 of them remain, making up just 1.4 percent of the nation’s farm owners, and tending a scant 4.7 million acres—a nearly 90 percent loss."

    https://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message4440846/pg1

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    In 1920, nearly a million Black farmers worked on 41.4 million acres of land, making up a seventh of farm owners. Today, only about 49,000 of them remain

    Wait, “41.4 million acres of land” ÷ “nearly a million Black farmers” = That’s already more than forty acres and a mule!

  40. @prime noticer
    removing africans would solve the murder problem. have they tried that?

    i mean, it's no more asinine than whatever new idiotic bullshit these people are suggesting every couple years.

    "Making murder legal would solve the murder problem" - moron policy maker in 2032.

    Replies: @Drew

    Legalizing murder might actually solve the murder problem, purge-style. Can you imagine how many criminals would be preemptively killed if their killers didn’t have to worry about being arrested for it?

  41. @Steve Sailer
    @TGGP

    My vague impression is that Mexico got a lot more homicidal after Mexico took the cocaine traffic away from Colombia in the early 1990s, but who knows how reliable old Mexican crime stats are. Driving around Mexico in the 1960s to 1980s I didn't see a lot of guns, but by the 1990s there were guys with heavy firepower standing around everywhere, so I stopped going to Mexico.

    There are also big differences in published murder rates in Central American countries, with leftist-run Nicaragua being much lower than, say, rightist-run Honduras. But, once again, who knows about Central American crime stats?

    Replies: @Skylark Thibedeau, @Voltarde, @al-Gharaniq, @Not Raul, @syonredux

    When do Leftists governments ever post stats showing there is a problem with crime? They just use the dialectic to redefine crime.

  42. @Michael S
    @22pp22

    Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on this one. There are a few drugs known for getting people hooked almost instantly, but none of them come in pill form, and no one who hasn't already experimented on a bunch of other drugs would ever try them. This kind of scare story is silly reefer madness folk wisdom that doesn't resemble reality at all.

    LSD can ruin a very small number of people's lives in a slightly different way - not by addiction, but by triggering some previously undetected psychosis - but it doesn't come in pill form.

    I'm sure there's some degree of truth to the story, but there's definitely more to it than what you were told. Either this guy had a prior history of drug abuse and had a relapse, or it was not just "one pill".

    And I'm going to be crystal clear here: plenty of people's lives do get destroyed by drugs, and some drugs (especially opiates) are far more likely than others to lead to that fate. Just not that quickly, barring certain "comorbidities", and there is always a cohort that does completely fine.

    Replies: @22pp22, @Almost Missouri, @Anonymouse

    >LSD can ruin a very small number of people’s lives in a slightly different way – not by addiction, but by triggering some previously undetected psychosis – but it doesn’t come in pill form.

    That’s wrong. LSD comes in pill form. The one time I took LSD – in the hills above Lower Lake in California in 1984 – it was in the form of a small blue bill. That it was LSD was established by the effects I experienced: the optical illusions in the clouds and the carpet which took to waving like waves in the sea, the disassociation between intention and execution, other oddities which would take too long to describe. The one lasting insight was recognizing that the visual style of rock concert posters featuring wavy halos around the images was based on the effect of LSD on the optic nerve. There were transitory illusory insights which would also take too long to describe.

  43. @Anon
    Does legal alcohol solve the alcoholic problem?

    Did legalizing pot in a few states solve the pot-smoking problem?

    Does legal gambling solve gambling addiction?

    No. An additive problem is biologically-based. The legality of it has zero effect on biology and genes. Unless, of course, you're referring to 'give them what they want good and so they die off and don't reproduce.'

    Replies: @Fluesterwitz, @scrivener3

    Does legal alcohol solve the alcoholic problem?

    Nope, but it largely solves/prevents the crime problem connected with the supply of illegal alcohol.

  44. @Kronos
    @Some Guy

    If you were the Chinese President and had 30 million Blacks in your country; where would you send them?

    Replies: @Some Guy, @epebble, @bruce county, @Pheasant, @Stephen Paul Foster, @Charles St. Charles

    “If you were the Chinese President and had 30 million Blacks in your country; where would you send them?”

    Its obvious: to Hollywood. To fill the shortage of brain surgeons, wise judges, brilliant scientists, inventors, mathematicians, compassionate, caring community organizers who counter the pervasive, bigoted brutality of white people.

  45. anonymous[267] • Disclaimer says:

    He also says 0.5% of the population in big cities is responsible for 50% of the murders

    Folks are speculating how the Chinese would react to these facts.

    Well it seems to me that the Chinese are big on eugenics. How about in return for a lifetime supply of the very best limited edition Nike sneakers the 0.5% agree to undergo voluntary sterilization.

    Ok so that only solves about 80% of the 0.5% problem with in 20 years.

    What to do with remaining 20%?

    I think the pragmatic Chinese would just hand them a shovel and tell them to start digging.

    • Replies: @Mike_from_SGV
    @anonymous

    What to do with the remaining 20percent.
    Give them $50k and a one way ticket to Ghana or Nigeria. They can get a nice hut in a village, a few cows, and they are on their way. Trump should propose this. I'm serious. Send them back to their people. Win-win for everyone.

  46. @Steve Sailer
    @TGGP

    My vague impression is that Mexico got a lot more homicidal after Mexico took the cocaine traffic away from Colombia in the early 1990s, but who knows how reliable old Mexican crime stats are. Driving around Mexico in the 1960s to 1980s I didn't see a lot of guns, but by the 1990s there were guys with heavy firepower standing around everywhere, so I stopped going to Mexico.

    There are also big differences in published murder rates in Central American countries, with leftist-run Nicaragua being much lower than, say, rightist-run Honduras. But, once again, who knows about Central American crime stats?

    Replies: @Skylark Thibedeau, @Voltarde, @al-Gharaniq, @Not Raul, @syonredux

    Violence in many less-developed countries increased in tandem with increases in foreign remittances sent back home by migrants who had made it to developed countries. Those remittances didn’t just buy life’s necessities. Or a better way to put it may be that in Mexico, Somalia, etc. guns and ammunition (hell, Toyota pickups and light ordinance) soon became some of life’s necessities. Since the 1970s, more impoverished migrants landing in Western countries = more remittances back home = more armed conflict in poorer countries that previously couldn’t afford much of it.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Voltarde


    hell, Toyota pickups and light ordinance
     
    The ordinances in those places tend to be quite heavy, just ignored. Ordnance, however, is much harder to brush away.

    I hope they got the Toyotas with the itchy gas pedals.

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/06/toyota.recall.appeal/index.html
  47. There’s no way in hell they’d be able to keep a hold of a legal drug trade. Think about it: who runs their convenience stores, liquor stores, weave shops etc? Yeah.

    The main issue with the “legalize everything!” argument is that you’re putting (X) market into the mainstream economy. No one has given a cogent (let alone good) argument for how legal drugs/prostitution/whatever *wouldn’t* turn into the usual sweatshops we see with Amazon, Walmart or, slightly higher up, with the tech companies and the like.

    That’s really the only effective argument the right has against it. But the usual suspects won’t touch it because that would mean disparaging the All Hallowed Capitalism. And of they accept that things like family and sex shouldn’t be commodified, then they would have to (1) stop trades like surrogacy and adoption and (2) admit a similar anti-market logic on education and healthcare.

  48. @NJ Transit Commuter
    Legalizing drugs will definitely create more addicts. No doubt. This is a big negative that needs to be carefully considered.

    But, if the war on drugs has shown us anything it’s that drug prohibition will not stop drugs from being sold and consumed. The war on drugs reminds me of Afghanistan. No one has any illusions it works, no one publicly supports it, and yet it continues to consume lives and huge amounts of money.

    What drug prohibition does is:
    - forces vulnerable people to buy unregulated products from unscrupulous criminals in dangerous environments

    - leads to police state tactics that exist in many inner cities because you have to ratchet up social control to enforce vice crime

    - creates huge profit margins for criminal enterprises and therefore require similar budgets for police to be able to compete with criminals.

    So, I do think that legalizing drugs is something that politicians should take really serious look at. But, I’m cautious because I have a libertarian streak in me and that might make me less likely to see the negative consequences.

    Replies: @fitzhamilton, @Almost Missouri, @Jesse

    By that logic, places like South Central in the 1980s should’ve realized that the War on Murder was failing, and just legalized it.

    What’s an acceptable number of people getting their lives ruined by legal drugs? (Being chaotic and/or lower IQ shouldn’t be a death sentence.)

    And, considering that most people are not sociopaths willing to let their fellow citizens die in the gutter, how will you get past the shared social costs? What about people who get caught in the crossfire, so to speak? Should innocent neighbors and relatives (including children) be destroyed? Again, what’s an acceptable number for you?

    How will you face these people ruining one area, and maybe moving to ruin others? Restriction of in-couuntry movement isn’t very libertarian.

  49. @22pp22
    @Michael S

    If you look through my comment thread, you will find it is entirely consistent. If I wrote bullshit, it wouldn't be.

    The guy was not a personal friend and he may well have had a history of drug abuse. In fact, I would be surprised if he didn't. He was not all there to start with. It's not a scare story.

    Alcohol is not much better. Last year one of my tenants had not been seen around for a few days and I went to check on him. I leave the rest to your imagination.

    Drug mess up people who are already troubled. Fact. And people who are troubled often have a history of taking drugs.

    Have you had had as much to do with various recreational drugs as you claim? If so, your mind is so addled, you don't know what you're saying.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    I know what you’re talking about. I have a tendency to drink too much–like a 1/2 bottle or more of whisky a night (by the way, I always show up for work and always sober; also, my liver is fine after years living this way–I attribute that to avoiding sugar, bread, and pasta). I can stop drinking completely if it’s all out of the house and I have other things to occupy my mind. I can also drink in moderation on most days if I drink daily. But what I cannot get myself to do yet is stop drinking for a few days, then have one drink, then stop again for a few days, then one drink, etc. If I stop for a while, that one drink sets me back to my old patterns.

    I still remember my first glass of straight liquor–1/2 gin and 1/2 Stone’s ginger wine. The feeling was amI could literally feel the alcohol spreading around my body as this core of heat in my stomach slowly migrated out to my toes. I have never felt that feeling again, but never forgotten it.

    I also am pretty sure I have avoided opiate addiction only because I can’t get it. I got a hold of Tylenol with codeine once and took it just to see the effects. That was really sweet, and again the effects still seem very immediate in my memory. Same with cigars. Ever since the first one, I think about them all the time even though I rarely smoke.

    A single dose of something may not cause a physical addiction, but for the chronically bored or unhappy, psychological addiction can occur with anything at any time I believe.

  50. There is no war on drugs. Just as there was no war on the corona flu. In contrast with Asia. Control the borders, execute the drug dealers–that would be a start. China, Japan, Singapore, Korea… these countries don’t have much of a drug problem. But for the 85 IQ, poor impulse control crowd, maybe drugs are the only thing they have? Controlled euthanasia. Especially in an atomized society with an amoral culture. Again, not like NE Asia. When you watch a movie like Uncut Gems, a slogan comes to mind, “This is your culture on drugs.”

  51. @donut
    Shit I don't care make the shit legal just don't send me the tab for their subsequent problems . You bet your life every time you use . I used to go to an AA meeting at Perry St. in the West Village . AA was good for me and a lot of other people . Some people say it's a cult , maybe so but at that time it was what I needed . I remember one day between meetings a guy told that one day I would look back on this year as one of the best years of my life . He was right , suffering and pain focuses us and is the best of teachers . Any way there was this nice young White girl at the meetings who had a mild Heroine habit , just a silly confused young thing . Any way she slipped as they call it and OD'd and died . F**k man life is for real , no slack .
    When I was younger I never made a good choice : pot , ETOH , LSD , I shot meth , heroine and cocaine .
    Once I even ground up some LSD tabs into a suspension , chunks you feel me ? And shot that shit up , chunks ! I can't believe somebody didn't end up in the hospital . Nothing happened for about 15-20 min. Then as we were walking along the side of the garage we stepped , one step and we were tripping .
    Well it's not up to me what policy the state chooses . It's up to the venal elected scum who depend on the academic scum waving their tax payer subsidized nonsense solutions . And after each failure , after failing time after time they claim to have the solution and we being even dumber say oh , ok . Like some abused twat believes that her abusive boy friend won't beat her dumb ass again .

    Replies: @Neuday

    Alright donut, you’ve written some crazy stuff but anyone who’s shot ground LSD tabs and is now reading isteve deserves some slack.

    • Agree: sayless
  52. @Reg Cæsar

    Would Legalizing Crack Solve the Murder Problem?
     
    Nah:


    https://i.imgur.com/GbjhSOB.jpg

    Replies: @Gordo, @Neuday

    Reg, please keep your porn collection to yourself.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Neuday

    I just hope that wasn't a craft beer. Looks more like a cleft beer.

  53. The greatest honour that can be bestowed on a Black man is to be martyred by a white person.
    George Floyd would have died a nondescript death from a drug overdose instead of instant canonization if it wasn’t for the actions of a white police officer.
    Where would the Catholic church be without its martyrs? Where would BLM be without it’s martyrs? The death of Floyd was a necessary catalyst for the revival of BLM’s fortunes.
    The police should be defunded since a reduction of adequate resources to defend themselves will result in disproportionate use of force in self defence and greater opportunities for drug addled criminals to achieve redemption as saints.

  54. jb says:

    Kennedy’s assertion that the percentage of blacks involved in the killing and dying is very small raises an interesting question: how does the behavior of the better behaved blacks compare to that of whites? I.e., consider the 50 percent of each population that commits the least crime and ask: what are the relative crime rates of those groups?

    It would be possible to claim that all of the excess criminality in the black community is due to the 5% of the most criminally inclined, and that the other 95% are every bit as well behaved as white people. But would this be true? It might hard question to answer if another of Kennedy’s assertions is true: that the high level of violence in the black community leads to an intense police focus on that community, which in turn leads to a large number of black men acquiring criminal records for minor offenses that would pass unnoticed in the white community. But are those offences really so minor (e.g., having a joint in your pocket), or are they at least moderately serious (e.g., assault). When I was in high school the black kids actually got away with much worse behavior than the whites, because they were so badly behaved that it was impossible to discipline them for minor offenses that white kids would get in trouble for.

    Anyway, the fact that Kennedy acknowledges that the police aren’t racist ups his credibility with me.

  55. If crack were legalized, how would the drug dealers make a living? They’d have to go on welfare, have more welfare babies and start robbing hijacking etc.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @Alden

    They’re already on welfare, robbing people, etc.

  56. @Kronos
    @Some Guy

    If you were the Chinese President and had 30 million Blacks in your country; where would you send them?

    Replies: @Some Guy, @epebble, @bruce county, @Pheasant, @Stephen Paul Foster, @Charles St. Charles

    If you were the Chinese President and had 30 million Blacks in your country; where would you send them?

    To the US of course; it’s a proven societal poison.

  57. @Almost Missouri
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    As is often the case, this kind of discussion gets cul-de-sac-ed into a comparison with a perfect utopia that doesn't exist. A dispassionate comparison of the damage of an open market drug free-for-all versus the damage of the ongoing war on drugs would be much more informative, but I've never seen it. In the real world it may not matter much because what actually happens is that local populations (aka voters) demand an end to the unregulated local drug trade. Authorities comply and you're back to some version of the "war on drugs".

    This happened in the late 1980s-early 1990s when black community leaders complained that crack—and crack violence—was epidemic in their communities because the police were neglecting them, and because prosecutors and courts were not punishing convicts sufficiently. Since no one wanted to gainsay black community leaders, policing, prosecution and penalties of crack-related offenses were duly increased. This did suppress crack-crime, but a decade later this was seamlessly retconned into "brutally oppressive policing of communities of color" or whatever.

    Or there was a much more recent experiment in libertarian utopianism when Seattle's CHAZ/CHOP created a self-"governing" unregulated "street fair" market "summer of love", free from the brutal oppression of Seattle's goodwhite liberal theocracy, and ...

    ... immediately set world records for murder and mayhem.

    https://twitter.com/nathancofnas/status/1278756948855255040

    Replies: @Alden

    To be fair, the homeless 16 year old and his 14 year old brother did carjack someone’s car. The owner and “security” were following the kids when they were shot. I don’t believe any parents of those boys have come forward.

  58. Make it legal in urban areas only. It should be fun.

  59. @Steve Sailer
    @TGGP

    My vague impression is that Mexico got a lot more homicidal after Mexico took the cocaine traffic away from Colombia in the early 1990s, but who knows how reliable old Mexican crime stats are. Driving around Mexico in the 1960s to 1980s I didn't see a lot of guns, but by the 1990s there were guys with heavy firepower standing around everywhere, so I stopped going to Mexico.

    There are also big differences in published murder rates in Central American countries, with leftist-run Nicaragua being much lower than, say, rightist-run Honduras. But, once again, who knows about Central American crime stats?

    Replies: @Skylark Thibedeau, @Voltarde, @al-Gharaniq, @Not Raul, @syonredux

    What perplexes me about Mexico and the Mexican cartels is if the cartels have enough money and influence, why don’t they push for the legalization of their business? Surely, the amount of money lost on guns, protection, and smuggling schemes cuts into their profit margins by quite a bit, enough so that having it legalized (and monopolized) would make them more money.

    It just seems bizarre that these multiple large cartels haven’t decided to coordinate with each other to legalize their trade in order to make more money; I get that it being illegal does drive the price up, but at some point, once an operation is large enough, having it legalized would increase profits.

  60. @22pp22
    @anon

    If you really think people who are already "challenged" can take drugs and get away with it, you need to get out more. May I recommend a trip to San Francisco?

    Replies: @anon

    I didn’t mean to challenge you; I was just curious (as a person interested in bio/chemistry) what is that potent compound. But I agree, they are a sample from the highly dysfunctional segment of our population, which I no doubt know exists.

  61. Remember 40 acres and a mule?

    Why not 40 acres, 4 wives, and a camel?

    Send the Crips & Bloods to Afghanistan, and don’t let them come back.

    They wouldn’t be colonizers, because they’re not white, right?

    It’s time to desegregate Afghanistan.

    • LOL: BB753
  62. @Alden
    If crack were legalized, how would the drug dealers make a living? They’d have to go on welfare, have more welfare babies and start robbing hijacking etc.

    Replies: @Not Raul

    They’re already on welfare, robbing people, etc.

  63. Kennedy says targeted arrests, sending a few key people to jail, is what is needed and that there is no need for mass arrests. This sort of contradicts what Steve has reported, that arresting “Kingpins” who are gang leaders doesn’t work, so the police have gone for imprisoning most of the gang rank and file.

    Is Kennedy wrong or perhaps the key people that you need to arrest are not the gang leaders ?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @AKAHorace

    I dunno. Having a debate between Kennedy and, say, Sam Quinones would be a good and useful thing.

    America has a bunch of Crime Intellectuals who know a lot about crime, an inherently interesting subject. They should be on TV debating each other about what to do about crime. But instead they get little publicity, unless they blame it all on evil YT.

    , @Anonymous
    @AKAHorace

    That's not what Kennedy says. He doesn't say anything about "key people."

    One strategy he suggests is collective punishment. If someone from a gang kills someone, then the police should come down hard on the members, jailing them for possession, etc. That's pretty close to what Quinones(?) said. But on the whole, he's much more lenient. He only wants a little bit of force, carefully targeted. But not targeted at "key people." Mainly he wants the police to be predictable (eg, tell all the gangs about the system) and engage with the community to convince them that they're a force for good. (and, first, be a force for good)

  64. @Steve Sailer
    @TGGP

    My vague impression is that Mexico got a lot more homicidal after Mexico took the cocaine traffic away from Colombia in the early 1990s, but who knows how reliable old Mexican crime stats are. Driving around Mexico in the 1960s to 1980s I didn't see a lot of guns, but by the 1990s there were guys with heavy firepower standing around everywhere, so I stopped going to Mexico.

    There are also big differences in published murder rates in Central American countries, with leftist-run Nicaragua being much lower than, say, rightist-run Honduras. But, once again, who knows about Central American crime stats?

    Replies: @Skylark Thibedeau, @Voltarde, @al-Gharaniq, @Not Raul, @syonredux

    Honduras is a major center of drug trafficking, and has been since the 1970s. The President’s brother, Tony Hernández, is a convicted drug trafficker.

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kzvgvx/how-cocaine-fueled-corruption-helped-spark-the-migrant-caravan

    It’s not at all surprising that Honduras would have a high murder rate. I wouldn’t be surprised if the actual murder rate were even higher than the official statistics suggest.

  65. The talk actually took place in April 2014, ie 6+ months before ‘Ferguson’. So I dug a bit and found this:

    half an hour from October 2015, thinking he might have trimmed his ‘holistic’ views towards ‘old school policing’.

    Well, he hadn’t. But he’s still hard not to like, isn’t he? Partly it’s the designer-ageing rock star hair, the scuffed shoes and crumpled suit (which he wore, with the same shirt and tie, for both appearances above!). But his unhurried delivery is balm to ears these days normally assaulted by banshee ranting. And he’s done the shoe-leather work, make no mistake (probably in the pair he was wearing).

    I’d love to see him debate Heather Mac Donald, whom I worship. Has this chap gone deeper? Could Heather possibly be missing something?? I’m not convinced the murderous few (committing most of the violent crime) will ever have the IQ (the innate lack of which is the font of most anti-social behaviour; Charles Murray and others) or the inclination (taught them, with bribery as required) to buy into the ‘American Dream’, and so change behaviour sustainably. (As his tables show, they’ve mostly been given multiple ’second chances’ already by the supposed oppressive system.)

    I think three hours on Rogan would be fun, especially post-Milwaukee etc; maybe Rogan could get him and Heather in the same podcast?

    • Agree: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @TyRade

    According to Sam Quinones, Southern California has made some progress on fighting gangs over the last 10-15 years by switching from trying to put away Gang Kingpins to just arresting all the members of one gang in a single day and then shipping them off to various federal prisons far from California where they can't call shots on the streets of SoCal anymore through visitors.

    There are a bunch of interesting Big Picture crime reporters like Quinones and Jill Leovy who would make good guests for Rogan.

    Replies: @stillCARealist

  66. @Neuday
    @Reg Cæsar

    Reg, please keep your porn collection to yourself.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I just hope that wasn’t a craft beer. Looks more like a cleft beer.

  67. @Voltarde
    @Steve Sailer

    Violence in many less-developed countries increased in tandem with increases in foreign remittances sent back home by migrants who had made it to developed countries. Those remittances didn't just buy life's necessities. Or a better way to put it may be that in Mexico, Somalia, etc. guns and ammunition (hell, Toyota pickups and light ordinance) soon became some of life's necessities. Since the 1970s, more impoverished migrants landing in Western countries = more remittances back home = more armed conflict in poorer countries that previously couldn't afford much of it.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    hell, Toyota pickups and light ordinance

    The ordinances in those places tend to be quite heavy, just ignored. Ordnance, however, is much harder to brush away.

    I hope they got the Toyotas with the itchy gas pedals.

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/08/06/toyota.recall.appeal/index.html

  68. I can’t see how you could legalize a single narcotic. You can’t legalize all drugs because they’re essential to our economy. It’s the single most important source of cash in a fiat monetary system. Banks vitally depend on money laundering to acquire cash flow. The government also relies heavily on drug trafficking to finance its intelligence and military operations.
    That’s why the war on drugs is endless. Because victory would crash our economy.

  69. @TyRade
    The talk actually took place in April 2014, ie 6+ months before ‘Ferguson’. So I dug a bit and found this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTA8ljX2H0E

    half an hour from October 2015, thinking he might have trimmed his ‘holistic’ views towards ‘old school policing’.

    Well, he hadn’t. But he’s still hard not to like, isn't he? Partly it’s the designer-ageing rock star hair, the scuffed shoes and crumpled suit (which he wore, with the same shirt and tie, for both appearances above!). But his unhurried delivery is balm to ears these days normally assaulted by banshee ranting. And he’s done the shoe-leather work, make no mistake (probably in the pair he was wearing).

    I’d love to see him debate Heather Mac Donald, whom I worship. Has this chap gone deeper? Could Heather possibly be missing something?? I’m not convinced the murderous few (committing most of the violent crime) will ever have the IQ (the innate lack of which is the font of most anti-social behaviour; Charles Murray and others) or the inclination (taught them, with bribery as required) to buy into the ‘American Dream’, and so change behaviour sustainably. (As his tables show, they’ve mostly been given multiple ’second chances’ already by the supposed oppressive system.)

    I think three hours on Rogan would be fun, especially post-Milwaukee etc; maybe Rogan could get him and Heather in the same podcast?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    According to Sam Quinones, Southern California has made some progress on fighting gangs over the last 10-15 years by switching from trying to put away Gang Kingpins to just arresting all the members of one gang in a single day and then shipping them off to various federal prisons far from California where they can’t call shots on the streets of SoCal anymore through visitors.

    There are a bunch of interesting Big Picture crime reporters like Quinones and Jill Leovy who would make good guests for Rogan.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    @Steve Sailer

    I talked to a local cop here in Northern CA who said they staged a big investigation/mass arrest of catalytic converter thieves in 2014. It was highly successful, but now all those thieves are out of prison and right back to stealing, according to him. Another tactic is now being tried of marking CC's so that the stolen ones can be traced and more thieves rounded up.

    Part of the solution in Big Picture crime fighting is making the punishment painful enough that the punks don't want to play the game anymore. I made some pretty dumb moves as a youngster and the results were quite awful. Good thing. REALLY good and useful thing, as you say.

  70. @AKAHorace
    Kennedy says targeted arrests, sending a few key people to jail, is what is needed and that there is no need for mass arrests. This sort of contradicts what Steve has reported, that arresting "Kingpins" who are gang leaders doesn't work, so the police have gone for imprisoning most of the gang rank and file.

    Is Kennedy wrong or perhaps the key people that you need to arrest are not the gang leaders ?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    I dunno. Having a debate between Kennedy and, say, Sam Quinones would be a good and useful thing.

    America has a bunch of Crime Intellectuals who know a lot about crime, an inherently interesting subject. They should be on TV debating each other about what to do about crime. But instead they get little publicity, unless they blame it all on evil YT.

  71. @anonymous

    He also says 0.5% of the population in big cities is responsible for 50% of the murders
     
    Folks are speculating how the Chinese would react to these facts.

    Well it seems to me that the Chinese are big on eugenics. How about in return for a lifetime supply of the very best limited edition Nike sneakers the 0.5% agree to undergo voluntary sterilization.

    Ok so that only solves about 80% of the 0.5% problem with in 20 years.

    What to do with remaining 20%?

    I think the pragmatic Chinese would just hand them a shovel and tell them to start digging.

    Replies: @Mike_from_SGV

    What to do with the remaining 20percent.
    Give them $50k and a one way ticket to Ghana or Nigeria. They can get a nice hut in a village, a few cows, and they are on their way. Trump should propose this. I’m serious. Send them back to their people. Win-win for everyone.

  72. @Almost Missouri
    @Michael S


    There are a few drugs known for getting people hooked almost instantly
     
    It's not always a question of getting "hooked". As I recall, Kesey's early Acid Tests had something like 5% rate of non-recovery, where LSD users weren't necessarily "hooked", but they were never functional again. You can say, well that's all just "triggering some previously undetected psychosis", but "undetected" is the key word in that tautology.

    In any case, this is largely a matter of semantics:

    "Yeah I may be a drug addict now, but I wasn't 'hooked' until my fifth time doing heroin."

    "Why did you take heroin the second, third, fourth and fifth times if you weren't addicted?"

    "Well, I liked it the first time. ... But I wasn't addicted then, I just liked it. So after that I wanted to get back to that original feeling, y'know? But I wasn't hooked or anything."

    Every addict had a first dose.


    there is always a cohort that does completely fine.
     
    There is always a cohort that does completely fine playing Russian Routlette (as high as 5/6ths in some studies*), but that's hardly an endorsement for Russian Roulette.

    *For some reason, long longitudinal studies fail to find many subjects.

    Replies: @MBlanc46

    One of my brothers-in-law told me that he did freebase cocaine once. After he did it, he said that the only thing in the world that he wanted was to do it again. That was sufficient to let him know that he’d better not do it again. So, perhaps you can handle anything once, but there might be some things that you can’t handle rwice.

  73. @Steve Sailer
    @TGGP

    My vague impression is that Mexico got a lot more homicidal after Mexico took the cocaine traffic away from Colombia in the early 1990s, but who knows how reliable old Mexican crime stats are. Driving around Mexico in the 1960s to 1980s I didn't see a lot of guns, but by the 1990s there were guys with heavy firepower standing around everywhere, so I stopped going to Mexico.

    There are also big differences in published murder rates in Central American countries, with leftist-run Nicaragua being much lower than, say, rightist-run Honduras. But, once again, who knows about Central American crime stats?

    Replies: @Skylark Thibedeau, @Voltarde, @al-Gharaniq, @Not Raul, @syonredux

    My vague impression is that Mexico got a lot more homicidal after Mexico took the cocaine traffic away from Colombia in the early 1990s,

    According to this fellow, Mexico was a pretty violent place in the 1960s…

    [R]epetition of the mantra “this is the bloodiest era in the country’s history since the Mexican Revolution” (Analysis, 4 April) does not make it true. The Cristero (Catholic) insurgency of the late 1920s (ie after the revolution) generated homicide rates of 200 per 100,000 (the standard metric), compared to 24 per 100,000 in 2011; more significantly, the homicide rate in 1940 was 67 per 100,000; and even circa 1960 – when no revolts happened and the “Peace of the PRI” (the then ruling party) prevailed – it was higher than it is today.

    Alan Knight
    Professor of the history of Latin America, Oxford University

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/10/mexico-murder-rate

  74. @Steve Sailer
    @TyRade

    According to Sam Quinones, Southern California has made some progress on fighting gangs over the last 10-15 years by switching from trying to put away Gang Kingpins to just arresting all the members of one gang in a single day and then shipping them off to various federal prisons far from California where they can't call shots on the streets of SoCal anymore through visitors.

    There are a bunch of interesting Big Picture crime reporters like Quinones and Jill Leovy who would make good guests for Rogan.

    Replies: @stillCARealist

    I talked to a local cop here in Northern CA who said they staged a big investigation/mass arrest of catalytic converter thieves in 2014. It was highly successful, but now all those thieves are out of prison and right back to stealing, according to him. Another tactic is now being tried of marking CC’s so that the stolen ones can be traced and more thieves rounded up.

    Part of the solution in Big Picture crime fighting is making the punishment painful enough that the punks don’t want to play the game anymore. I made some pretty dumb moves as a youngster and the results were quite awful. Good thing. REALLY good and useful thing, as you say.

  75. @Anon
    Does legal alcohol solve the alcoholic problem?

    Did legalizing pot in a few states solve the pot-smoking problem?

    Does legal gambling solve gambling addiction?

    No. An additive problem is biologically-based. The legality of it has zero effect on biology and genes. Unless, of course, you're referring to 'give them what they want good and so they die off and don't reproduce.'

    Replies: @Fluesterwitz, @scrivener3

    no it’s because you don’t get to decide what is good for them or them for you

    I know some Catholics who have strong opinions about your morality. in America they are powerless to force you to do anything.

    teetotalers think they have discovered a universal truth. I say mind your own business

  76. Anonymous[349] • Disclaimer says:
    @AKAHorace
    Kennedy says targeted arrests, sending a few key people to jail, is what is needed and that there is no need for mass arrests. This sort of contradicts what Steve has reported, that arresting "Kingpins" who are gang leaders doesn't work, so the police have gone for imprisoning most of the gang rank and file.

    Is Kennedy wrong or perhaps the key people that you need to arrest are not the gang leaders ?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    That’s not what Kennedy says. He doesn’t say anything about “key people.”

    One strategy he suggests is collective punishment. If someone from a gang kills someone, then the police should come down hard on the members, jailing them for possession, etc. That’s pretty close to what Quinones(?) said. But on the whole, he’s much more lenient. He only wants a little bit of force, carefully targeted. But not targeted at “key people.” Mainly he wants the police to be predictable (eg, tell all the gangs about the system) and engage with the community to convince them that they’re a force for good. (and, first, be a force for good)

  77. I think the War on Drugs is futile, expensive, and corrupt. BUT, legalizing drugs will have unknown consequences, and once that door has been opened, it can’t be closed again. Alcohol is a huge problem is this country, pot is getting worse, and there is limited success in treating these problems. So why make things worse?

    That, of course, is a rhetorical question. The answer is money.

  78. He also says 0.5% of the population in big cities is responsible for 50% of the murders.

    The first time I read this, I thought it just meant that murders were from a really small random group of youths, but I just watched a few minutes of the talk, and he appears to be saying that 50% of murders are caused by gang-related violence. How does this relate to the Ferguson Effect? Are the increases in murder rates coming in the non-gang-related murders? If so, wouldn’t that essentially mean that the Ferguson Effect was much , much larger in percentage?

  79. I see…. legalize crack and…. legalize dueling!

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