The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
World War T Bulldozes Lesbians: Never Underestimate the More Masculine Mind's Urge for Dominance
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

With World War T turning into a rout, Michelle Goldberg in The New Yorker profiles one last pocket of resistance: radical lesbian-feminists who have been trying for 40 years to stop men in dresses from showing up at the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival and hitting on the poor lesbians who just want to camp in the dirt and enjoy the earnest folk stylings of the Indigo Girls. But today even the Indigo Girls are threatening to boycott the Festival unless the aging lesbians submit to the all-conquering Trans Power:

What Is a Woman?

The dispute between radical feminism and transgenderism

An old school lesbian-feminist named Sheila Jeffreys has pointed out that a large fraction of the most aggressive trans activists are not pitiful intersex individuals, but highly masculine guys who have a private agenda they keep secret:

But, if that’s true, why would men demote themselves to womanhood? For reasons of sexual fetishism, Jeffreys says. She substantiates her argument with the highly controversial theories of Ray Blanchard, a retired professor of psychiatry at the University of Toronto, and the related work of J. Michael Bailey, a psychology professor at Northwestern University. Contrary to widespread belief, Blanchard says, the majority of trans women in the West start off not as effeminate gay men but as straight or bisexual men, and they are initially motivated by erotic compulsion rather than by any conceived female identity. … To describe the syndrome, Blanchard coined the term “autogynephilia,” meaning sexual arousal at the thought of oneself as female.

Blanchard is far from a radical feminist. He believes that gender-reassignment surgery can relieve psychological suffering; he has even counselled people who undergo it. He also accepts the commonly held view that male brains differ from female brains in ways that affect behavior. Nevertheless, Jeffreys believes that the work of Blanchard and Bailey shows that when trans women ask to be accepted as women they’re seeking to have an erotic fixation indulged.

But the spirit of the age is against the old lesbians:

The members of the board of the New York Abortion Access Fund, an all-volunteer group that helps to pay for abortions for those who can’t afford them, are mostly young women; Alison Turkos, the group’s co-chair, is twenty-six. In May, they voted unanimously to stop using the word “women” when talking about people who get pregnant, so as not to exclude trans men.

(Cue Theodore Dalrymple on how the purpose of politically correct propaganda is not “to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better.”)

There’s a certain historic irony and inevitability to lesbian feminists being routed by the only people claiming to be women who are even more ferociously masculine than themselves: individuals with actual Y-chromosomes.

The unstated but obvious engine of feminism was the anger and of the most masculine women that their leadership urges weren’t satisfactorily reciprocated by more attractive women’s followership urges. Instead, feminine women tend to like masculine men and find lesbians to be an inadequate substitute.

This led to feminism traditionally having plenty of chiefs but never enough Indians, as I pointed out in Why Lesbians Aren’t Gay in 1994. For decades, the leaders of the National Organization for Women bestrode the national media stage like colossi, even though the actual number of dues-paying members was surprisingly small.

But now the XX lesbian feminists are being out-aggressed by individuals with Y-chromosomes.

Of course, in the long run the lesbian activists and the trans activists will hammer out an accord in which it is announced that everything is the fault of cisgendered straight white men.

 
Hide 106 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. My uncle used to work at an office with a big-time bodybuilder and juicer. Eventually, the guy decided he had always really been a woman on the inside, and got himself legally sex-changed. The grimly hilarious part was that, from all appearances, he was still just as ‘roided-up as ever before- this “woman” had biceps easily twice the size of mine. He looked like an aging third-tier WWE wrestler in a brunette wig.

    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    I saw a couple of burly Hispanic "tranwomen" the other day. They definitely needed to shop in the Big Girl's Department.
  2. Priss Factor [AKA "Lesbian vs Trans"] says:

    Is this the end of humanism? The onset of transhumanism?

    Nazism sought to create the perfect hero, and communism sought to create the ideal worker. But radicalization of ideals is dangerous.
    In contrast, humanism said people are what they are and should be accepted for what they are, warts and all.
    Accept the real over the ideal–far right or far left.

    But with so much abundance and freedom, the ‘real’ got boring for a lot of people. Our consumer culture feeds on vanity and narcissism. So, everyone wants to be ideal than real, and people’s ideals are defined by their eccentricities.

    In some ways, this trans-gender thing is sold as a kind of humanism. WE should be tolerant and accept trans-gender people for what the are.
    But it’s really a form of anti-humanism since so-called trans-gender people cannot accept what they are and demand extreme procedures in order to be transformed into their fantastic ‘ideals’.

    It is a form of transhumanism that rejects the human as boring & restrictive and strives for(and even demands)the ‘ideal’ of what one wants to be.

    The mentalities behind Elliott Rogers and most trans-gender people aren’t much different. They are anti-humanist and obsessed with the ‘ideal’ of how they want to see themselves. Rogers was angry that the world didn’t see him as he saw himself. And trans-gender people are angry that a lot of people still refuse to see them as they see themselves: as man into sexy woman or woman into tough man. Both Rodgers and trans-gender people cannot accept themselves as they really are. They want to be something else. It’s ironic that people who couldn’t tolerate their true selves demand that we not only tolerate but celebrate their false-imagined selves.

    There is some of this in ‘cuckold’ culture as well. White men cannot accept their ‘inadequacies’ and so they sexually live through black men invited to have sex with their wives. Watching black men getting it on with their white wives, they vicariously identify with both the black male and white female as both conqueror and conquered. Trans-marriage-ism?

    At any rate, humanism seems to be dead. Too humdrum.
    Zeligism went from neurosis to the new normal.

    The doctor in this scene saw the future:

    http://youtu.be/m0bfPBmjlAg?t=1h22m14s

  3. My favorite part of this whole thing is how it’s enough to “identify” as a woman. Don’t have to take hormones, certainly don’t have to get your dick chopped off. Just don a dress and identify as a woman. And hey, if you’re attracted to women — you’re a lesbian!

    Say what you want about Donald/Dierdre McCloskey, having your wang chopped of shows commitment.

  4. Wow, that article was a hoot.

  5. “In May, they voted unanimously to stop using the word “women” when talking about people who get pregnant, so as not to exclude trans men.”

    What comes after insanity?

    • Replies: @Percy Gryce

    What comes after insanity?
     
    Après folie, le déluge.
    , @WhatEvvs
    Joe Biden as President?
  6. “cisgendered men” – funny!

  7. Shouldn’t one or other group be called Bizarro women?

  8. Mr. Sailer,

    Good post, but given that setup, how could you have failed to link Monty Python on this one?

  9. One would need a heart of stone not to laugh.

    What comes after insanity?

    Destruction, I think.

  10. OT: Bill Gates’ tech worker fantasy

    Business executives and politicians endlessly complain that there is a “shortage” of qualified Americans and that the U.S. must admit more high-skilled guest workers to fill jobs in STEM fields: science, technology, engineering and math. This claim is echoed by everyone from President Obama and Rupert Murdoch to Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates.

    Yet within the past month, two odd things occurred: Census reported that only one in four STEM degree holders is in a STEM job, and Microsoft announced plans to downsize its workforce by 18,000 jobs. Even so, the House is considering legislation that, like the Senate immigration bill before it, would increase to unprecedented levels the supply of high-skill guest workers and automatic green cards to foreign STEM students.

  11. Interesting crossroads: Should feminists require that normal mental health be a requisite for membership in their groups/attendance at their events? The jokes write themselves.

  12. “Destruction, I think.”

    Try ‘impoverishment by societies with their heads screwed on right’, by which I mean the Chinese. The Russians are too deep in the vodka bottle. But destruction? Naaah, the Chinese aren’t interested in nuking us. Too much trouble, and potentially dangerous. The USA will look more and more like Detroit or Atlanta, but no foreign invasion.

  13. @syonredux
    "In May, they voted unanimously to stop using the word “women” when talking about people who get pregnant, so as not to exclude trans men."

    What comes after insanity?

    What comes after insanity?

    Après folie, le déluge.

  14. “In the book, Jeffreys calls detransitioners like Russell “survivors,” and cites them as evidence that transgenderism isn’t immutable and thus doesn’t warrant radical medical intervention. (She considers gender-reassignment surgery a form of mutilation.) “The phenomenon of regret undermines the idea that there exists a particular kind of person who is genuinely and essentially transgender and can be identified accurately by psychiatrists,” she writes. “It is radically destabilising to the transgender project.” She cites as further evidence the case of Bradley Cooper, who, in 2011, at the age of seventeen, became Britain’s youngest gender-reassignment patient, then publicly regretted his transition the next year and returned to living as a boy. Jeffreys is especially alarmed by doctors in Europe, Australia, and the United States who treat transgender children with puberty-delaying drugs, which prevent them from developing unwanted secondary sex characteristics and can result in sterilization.”

    What does it mean when someone like Jeffreys is the sanest person in the room?

    • Replies: @Critical Eye
    What does it mean when someone like Jeffreys is the sanest person in the room?

    That the door should be locked from the outside, or better, permanently sealed?
  15. In my experience, lesbians do not like gay men very much and they really hate trannies. I have a close business acquaintance who is a lesbian and she has made these points often. The first time I noticed this was in the olden thymes with a co-worker. She was vicious in her comments about gay men.

    My sense is there’s some professional jealousy going on. Straight white liberals love gay men. The more flaming the better. They don’t have any respect for lesbians. Now that trannies are moving ahead of the lesbians with white liberals, I would imagine the animosity will grow.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    In my experience, lesbians do not like gay men very much

    According to the documentary Modern Family this is a true statement.

    In the episode "Schooled" (season 4, episode 2), two children get into a fight at school; one of them has gay parents and the other has lesbian parents. So of course all the parents make catty remarks about the other. I especially enjoyed this episode because it allowed jokes about gays and lesbians to be broadcast; the same jokes made by straight characters never would have been allowed.
  16. Seems that transvestite model Andrej Pejic has now “transitioned” to female:

    http://www.ibtimes.com/andreja-pejic-photos-2014-transgender-model-thanks-facebook-fans-1640326

    For further news on the transgendered model, front:

    http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2014/02/25/tim-gunn-conflicted-about-trans-models

    Seems that Tim Gunn dares to question the wisdom of having men model women’s clothes:

    “The fact that fashion designers would put basically adolescent-shaped boys or men in women’s clothes is head-scratching for me because, anatomically, women and men have different shapes,” the Project Runway star told HuffPo. “So, to be looking at women’s fashion on a tall, skinny guy with no hips, there’s no way you can project yourself into those clothes.”

    • Replies: @Shuddh Bharatiyaan
    “The fact that fashion designers would put basically adolescent-shaped boys or men in women’s clothes is head-scratching for me because, anatomically, women and men have different shapes,” the Project Runway star told HuffPo. “So, to be looking at women’s fashion on a tall, skinny guy with no hips, there’s no way you can project yourself into those clothes.”

    But that's what female runway models look like anyway. And that's been a contentuous subject for several decades now already. I'm surprised Tim Gunn, part of the group that created that androgynous look, would object to what it appears to the rest of us to be what fashion designers (largely gay males) have long desired in the first place. Why make women look like skinny dudes with no hips when you can just hire skinny dude with no hips?

    At least Victoria Secret models get to eat more than lettuce leaves.
    , @WhatEvvs
    Tim Gunn is representative of a certain type of elite gay man who grew up closeted, survived a lot of turmoil, and came out sane. I think if he had his druthers he would have been straight but he wasn't and that's the breaks. I know a lot of gay guys like him but they keep their mouths shut because if they say what they think they'd be torn to shreds. So the crazies rule. Ain't America grand?
    , @Seamus
    “So, to be looking at women’s fashion on a tall, skinny guy with no hips, there’s no way you can project yourself into those clothes.”

    I thought tall, skinny, and with no hips was a classic type of female model. Think Kate Moss and (for real oldsters) Twiggy.
  17. In fairness to lesbians, if the trannies didn’t have the power of the media and PC establishment behind them, it would’ve gone a different way.

    Kind of like what happened with lesbians and straight men, in a fair fight the straight men would’ve crushed them, but it wasn’t a fair fight.

    What goes around…

  18. I know a case of a young couple, one a male who changed to female and the other a female who changed to male. The parents of the biological female are supportive of the relationship but they have noticed how whenever the two interact with each other, the biological male acts in a stereotypically masculine manner and their daughter in a feminine manner.

  19. Wonder if World War T will lead to a “strange, new respect” for Heinlein on the radical left? REH did, after all, explore transgenderism long before it was trendy. Cf the man who becomes his own mother and father in “All You Zombies,” Andrew Jackson Libby becoming Elizabeth Andrew Jackson Libby after a sex change, etc.

  20. Btw – did anybody anticipate anthony daniels’ point about the real purpose of propaganda? Or is that insight his alone?

    • Replies: @Bill
    Btw – did anybody anticipate anthony daniels’ point about the real purpose of propaganda? Or is that insight his alone?
     Very droll. Solzhenitsyn. Havel. Others. They were talking about Marxists rather than Cultural Marxists, but it's the same thing.
  21. @syonredux
    Seems that transvestite model Andrej Pejic has now "transitioned" to female:

    http://www.ibtimes.com/andreja-pejic-photos-2014-transgender-model-thanks-facebook-fans-1640326

    For further news on the transgendered model, front:

    http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2014/02/25/tim-gunn-conflicted-about-trans-models

    Seems that Tim Gunn dares to question the wisdom of having men model women's clothes:

    "The fact that fashion designers would put basically adolescent-shaped boys or men in women's clothes is head-scratching for me because, anatomically, women and men have different shapes," the Project Runway star told HuffPo. "So, to be looking at women's fashion on a tall, skinny guy with no hips, there's no way you can project yourself into those clothes."

    “The fact that fashion designers would put basically adolescent-shaped boys or men in women’s clothes is head-scratching for me because, anatomically, women and men have different shapes,” the Project Runway star told HuffPo. “So, to be looking at women’s fashion on a tall, skinny guy with no hips, there’s no way you can project yourself into those clothes.”

    But that’s what female runway models look like anyway. And that’s been a contentuous subject for several decades now already. I’m surprised Tim Gunn, part of the group that created that androgynous look, would object to what it appears to the rest of us to be what fashion designers (largely gay males) have long desired in the first place. Why make women look like skinny dudes with no hips when you can just hire skinny dude with no hips?

    At least Victoria Secret models get to eat more than lettuce leaves.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    "But that’s what female runway models look like anyway. And that’s been a contentuous subject for several decades now already. I’m surprised Tim Gunn, part of the group that created that androgynous look, would object to what it appears to the rest of us to be what fashion designers (largely gay males) have long desired in the first place. Why make women look like skinny dudes with no hips when you can just hire skinny dude with no hips?"

    On some level, Gunn probably realizes that replacing boyish female models with actual boys would be going one step too far. It would mark the total removal of actual femininity from fashion, and Gunn seems to be balking at carrying the revolution to its ultimate conclusion.
  22. The way to break this system is for people to start “identifying” as women and NAMs in order to get preferential treatment for scholarships, college admission, SBA loans, etc.

    I identify as a black womyn, so my SAT score of 1100 gets me a full ride at any college in the country. I can even go down to the courthouse and have my name changed to Shawn’Quay-Quay Progeria if I need to. Still cheaper than 4 years of college.

    Please start doing this, youngsters.

  23. “Of course, in the long run the lesbian activists and the trans activists will hammer out an accord in which it is announced that everything is the fault of cisgendered straight white men.”

    I don’t know; rem those macho trans ‘women’ actually *are* heterosexual straight white men; and the ‘radical feminists’ know this – they are being oppressed by the old enemy in a very creative way. And it’s an enemy who wants to *Steal Our Women*! I think there will always be resistance. And as the trans tyranny spreads, it inevitably ignites resistance. Even straight and not particularly feminist sportswomen don’t want to play violent contact sports against men. Games like rugby simply are not viable as full contact sports with both men and women on the field: of course one likely result is that real women simply walk away and leave it to the trans.

    • Replies: @PatrickH
    Unfortunately for women, transsexuals are men, and men always win against women. Violence or the threat of violence keeps women in line.

    It's time to update Susan Brownmiller: "[World War T] is the conscious process of intimidation by which all [transsexual] men keep all [non-transsexual] women in a state of fear."
    , @WhatEvvs
    "And as the trans tyranny spreads, it inevitably ignites resistance."

    Yes. I don't agree with Steve Sailer on this.

    Here is what I think will happen - when women (I mean, real women) demand all sorts of silly things from men, men comply as best they can because they want sex and no matter how they protest, legitimate families to pass on their genetic and cultural heritage. (Although I realize that doing this has been horribly complicated by modernity, it's still so.)

    When women ask too much, they retreat to male pastimes and take a rest.

    This dealmaking has been around as long as humanity.

    Now, these monstrous fake "transwomen" are making demands of men. Why should men comply? There is no reason. They arouse revulsion in any normal man. "Transwomen" will demand that men recognize them as women, and men will indeed rebel violently against this, because it is a bridge too far. What will women do? Watch the fight and hope that men win.

    All in all this is the consequence of two generations of feminism, in which women demanded that men stop protecting them. Well, they did, but men won't stop protecting themselves. Men will never consider "transwomen" as women, because they are not fundamentally masochistic.
  24. There is an inconsistency (or as autocorrect would say: pundit envy) here. The Indigo Girls are about eighty years old. Shouldn’t the Indy Old Girls be siding with the radical feminists? They blazed onto the scene at the peak of Old School Rape Crisis Feminism. Adherents viewed all Y chromosome endowed humanoids with disgust since rape is fundamentally programmed into male DNA.

  25. Sam Haysom [AKA "Matt Buckalew"] says:

    Steve’s point makes no sense because after all if masculine urge to dominate always wins then how was feminism so successful. I get it Steve thinks he hit a gold mine with the transsexual ex-Harvard QB, but the jokes are getting in the way of clear thinking. Like the poster above says it’s the media stupid never ever ever bet against the media. The media could make Achilles into a stupid jock with mommy issues in six months and he’s be crying again this time not for a slave girl, but because Odysseus and Agamemnon always make fun of him.

    • Replies: @Bill

    Steve’s point makes no sense because after all if masculine urge to dominate always wins then how was feminism so successful.
     
    You are implicitly assuming that feminism was a female project. This is about as accurate as assuming that the civil rights movement was a black project.
  26. …mostly young women; Alison Turkos, the group’s co-chair, is twenty-six. In May, they voted unanimously to stop using the word “women” when talking about people who get pregnant, so as not to exclude trans men.

    The Boomers (and the “greatest generation”, too) have a great deal to answer for, for the moral and intellectual Bedlam to which they abandoned the younger generations. These kids didn’t start out crazy.

    At least the lesbian ladies seem to realize their own interest. I’ve often asked nice SWPL ladies why they think the elevation of male homosexuality in a society is good for the status of women in the long run. Say, for example, letting gay male couples hire surrogate wombs to get progeny. Do they really believe that selling off the last vestiges of a strictly female function that was regarded as fundamentally important to society – motherhood – is really a smart move? Confused looks. Nice SWPL ladies don’t really think things through, do they?

    • Replies: @Jay
    It's not nice to think too much or to notice such things. It doesn't feel right.
    , @Shuddh Bharatiyaan
    "Say, for example, letting gay male couples hire surrogate wombs to get progeny. Do they really believe that selling off the last vestiges of a strictly female function that was regarded as fundamentally important to society – motherhood – is really a smart move?"

    Men and transwomen need cis-gendered female/womyn wombs to obtain children. That' one last vestige that they will never have. Unless and until science advances to that point. Which will be a long time, if ever.

    Men and transwomen are not womb-men or wombyn and probably never will be.
  27. In the dispute between radical feminists and trans activists, I say let the best man win.

  28. TGGP says: • Website

    One such outpost of radical feminist lesbianism is Gender Identity Watch. They’ve covered the bizarre attempt by men-identifying-as-women to shame lesbians as bigots for not desiring relationships with them. The trans-activists even devised a neologism for this: the “cotton ceiling“. What cotton has to do with anything I don’t know.

    • Replies: @TGGP
    One of their posts links to Rod Dreher's discussion (I suppose a great opportunity to denounce their insufficient progressivity by virtue of citing AmConMag), but as a pdf, and that's just weird (although I suppose it's a robust defense against bitrot). Here is Dreher's original post.
    , @Jay
    Tampons?
    , @Anonn
    See also the neologism "terf"
  29. @Shuddh Bharatiyaan
    “The fact that fashion designers would put basically adolescent-shaped boys or men in women’s clothes is head-scratching for me because, anatomically, women and men have different shapes,” the Project Runway star told HuffPo. “So, to be looking at women’s fashion on a tall, skinny guy with no hips, there’s no way you can project yourself into those clothes.”

    But that's what female runway models look like anyway. And that's been a contentuous subject for several decades now already. I'm surprised Tim Gunn, part of the group that created that androgynous look, would object to what it appears to the rest of us to be what fashion designers (largely gay males) have long desired in the first place. Why make women look like skinny dudes with no hips when you can just hire skinny dude with no hips?

    At least Victoria Secret models get to eat more than lettuce leaves.

    “But that’s what female runway models look like anyway. And that’s been a contentuous subject for several decades now already. I’m surprised Tim Gunn, part of the group that created that androgynous look, would object to what it appears to the rest of us to be what fashion designers (largely gay males) have long desired in the first place. Why make women look like skinny dudes with no hips when you can just hire skinny dude with no hips?”

    On some level, Gunn probably realizes that replacing boyish female models with actual boys would be going one step too far. It would mark the total removal of actual femininity from fashion, and Gunn seems to be balking at carrying the revolution to its ultimate conclusion.

  30. @The Z Blog
    In my experience, lesbians do not like gay men very much and they really hate trannies. I have a close business acquaintance who is a lesbian and she has made these points often. The first time I noticed this was in the olden thymes with a co-worker. She was vicious in her comments about gay men.

    My sense is there's some professional jealousy going on. Straight white liberals love gay men. The more flaming the better. They don't have any respect for lesbians. Now that trannies are moving ahead of the lesbians with white liberals, I would imagine the animosity will grow.

    In my experience, lesbians do not like gay men very much

    According to the documentary Modern Family this is a true statement.

    In the episode “Schooled” (season 4, episode 2), two children get into a fight at school; one of them has gay parents and the other has lesbian parents. So of course all the parents make catty remarks about the other. I especially enjoyed this episode because it allowed jokes about gays and lesbians to be broadcast; the same jokes made by straight characters never would have been allowed.

  31. As socially liberal as The United States is, I am surprised that this country has nowhere near as many Trannies as Philippines, Thailand, and Brasil.

    I wonder why most Gay American males have no interest in trying to look like a woman. Maybe Gay males wanting to look like women is mostly a Brown 3rd world thing.

    • Replies: @Chip Smith
    Bailey talks about this in The Man Who Would Be Queen, where he argues that the transsexuals in such cultures are generally distinguishable from autogynephilic types, being effeminate boys who are culturally groomed into transitioning early. That's one reason why they're prettier, and more genuinely feminine, than the IT geeks, athletes, and film directors who end up transitioning later in life out of an inverted attraction to women. In Western cultures hyper-feminine boys, rather than being routed into hormonal transformation, simply identify as gay.
    , @Dave Pinsen
    It's probably more a function of the level of sex tourism.
  32. What cotton has to do with anything I don’t know.

    Panties? As in not being able to get through them?

  33. @TGGP
    One such outpost of radical feminist lesbianism is Gender Identity Watch. They've covered the bizarre attempt by men-identifying-as-women to shame lesbians as bigots for not desiring relationships with them. The trans-activists even devised a neologism for this: the "cotton ceiling". What cotton has to do with anything I don't know.

    One of their posts links to Rod Dreher’s discussion (I suppose a great opportunity to denounce their insufficient progressivity by virtue of citing AmConMag), but as a pdf, and that’s just weird (although I suppose it’s a robust defense against bitrot). Here is Dreher’s original post.

  34. I’m starting to get confused here, watching the Weirdness Olympics without a scorecard. All this hissy drama is getting to be entertaining. Get out the popcorn and the kitty litter.

  35. “stop men in dresses from showing up at the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival and hitting on the poor lesbians”

    Maybe that’s not what’s going on. My guess is many of the (naive) college girls that show up for that music festival held in an isolated area of Michigan are really heterosexual and don’t quite understand what they are getting into. When an aggressive lesbian stalks a hetero girl at the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival, who is her knight in shining armour ready to save her? He is wearing heals, a wig, and makeup.

    “This led to feminism traditionally having plenty of chiefs but never enough Indians”

    That is an interesting observation which oddly has me wondering about Alma Bridwell White. Things called the Ku Klux Klan appeared and disappeared a few different times in US history. The “second Klan” 1914 – WWII was interesting in that it had a large number of female leaders. Alma Bridwell White being the most notable, and the first female bishop in the US and possibly the major first female religious leader in Christianity. Looking at her picture, I think if she were alive today, she might be aligned as a lesbian. But she was married to a not very notable (no wikipedia page) man. Which is to say she wanted followers and she chose the kind of people who would follow her. They are called men. Men are identified with masculine aggressive leadership, but the reality is most men end up as team members or are basically meek in disposition. Which is to say if you are a woman who wants followers, chose men. Which is to say all the old stereotypes from the 50s and 60s about wives and mother in-laws controlling husbands are really true.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    "and the first female bishop in the US and possibly the major first female religious leader in Christianity."

    Ann Lee had her beat:

    "Mother Ann Lee (29 February 1736 – 8 September 1784) was the leader of the United Society of Believers in Christ’s Second Appearing, or Shakers.

    In 1774 Ann Lee and a small group of her followers emigrated from England to New York. After several years, they gathered at Niskayuna, renting land from the Manor of Rensselaerswyck, Albany County, New York (the area now called Colonie). They worshiped by ecstatic dancing or "shaking", which dubbed them as the Shaking Quakers, or Shakers. Ann Lee preached to the public and led the Shaker church at a time when few women did either."
    , @syonredux
    "Maybe that’s not what’s going on. My guess is many of the (naive) college girls that show up for that music festival held in an isolated area of Michigan are really heterosexual and don’t quite understand what they are getting into. When an aggressive lesbian stalks a hetero girl at the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival, who is her knight in shining armour ready to save her? He is wearing heals, a wig, and makeup."

    Given the proclivities of guys who wear heels, a wig, and makeup, the adage about "out of the frying pan, into the fire" comes to mind....
  36. re lesbians being displaced by more masculine people: the Onion was there first: here

  37. @George
    "stop men in dresses from showing up at the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival and hitting on the poor lesbians"

    Maybe that's not what's going on. My guess is many of the (naive) college girls that show up for that music festival held in an isolated area of Michigan are really heterosexual and don't quite understand what they are getting into. When an aggressive lesbian stalks a hetero girl at the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival, who is her knight in shining armour ready to save her? He is wearing heals, a wig, and makeup.

    "This led to feminism traditionally having plenty of chiefs but never enough Indians"

    That is an interesting observation which oddly has me wondering about Alma Bridwell White. Things called the Ku Klux Klan appeared and disappeared a few different times in US history. The "second Klan" 1914 - WWII was interesting in that it had a large number of female leaders. Alma Bridwell White being the most notable, and the first female bishop in the US and possibly the major first female religious leader in Christianity. Looking at her picture, I think if she were alive today, she might be aligned as a lesbian. But she was married to a not very notable (no wikipedia page) man. Which is to say she wanted followers and she chose the kind of people who would follow her. They are called men. Men are identified with masculine aggressive leadership, but the reality is most men end up as team members or are basically meek in disposition. Which is to say if you are a woman who wants followers, chose men. Which is to say all the old stereotypes from the 50s and 60s about wives and mother in-laws controlling husbands are really true.

    “and the first female bishop in the US and possibly the major first female religious leader in Christianity.”

    Ann Lee had her beat:

    “Mother Ann Lee (29 February 1736 – 8 September 1784) was the leader of the United Society of Believers in Christ’s Second Appearing, or Shakers.

    In 1774 Ann Lee and a small group of her followers emigrated from England to New York. After several years, they gathered at Niskayuna, renting land from the Manor of Rensselaerswyck, Albany County, New York (the area now called Colonie). They worshiped by ecstatic dancing or “shaking”, which dubbed them as the Shaking Quakers, or Shakers. Ann Lee preached to the public and led the Shaker church at a time when few women did either.”

  38. @Rohan Swee
    ...mostly young women; Alison Turkos, the group’s co-chair, is twenty-six. In May, they voted unanimously to stop using the word “women” when talking about people who get pregnant, so as not to exclude trans men.

    The Boomers (and the "greatest generation", too) have a great deal to answer for, for the moral and intellectual Bedlam to which they abandoned the younger generations. These kids didn't start out crazy.

    At least the lesbian ladies seem to realize their own interest. I've often asked nice SWPL ladies why they think the elevation of male homosexuality in a society is good for the status of women in the long run. Say, for example, letting gay male couples hire surrogate wombs to get progeny. Do they really believe that selling off the last vestiges of a strictly female function that was regarded as fundamentally important to society - motherhood - is really a smart move? Confused looks. Nice SWPL ladies don't really think things through, do they?

    It’s not nice to think too much or to notice such things. It doesn’t feel right.

  39. What cotton has to do with anything I don’t know.

    TAMPONS

  40. @TGGP
    One such outpost of radical feminist lesbianism is Gender Identity Watch. They've covered the bizarre attempt by men-identifying-as-women to shame lesbians as bigots for not desiring relationships with them. The trans-activists even devised a neologism for this: the "cotton ceiling". What cotton has to do with anything I don't know.

    Tampons?

  41. @George
    "stop men in dresses from showing up at the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival and hitting on the poor lesbians"

    Maybe that's not what's going on. My guess is many of the (naive) college girls that show up for that music festival held in an isolated area of Michigan are really heterosexual and don't quite understand what they are getting into. When an aggressive lesbian stalks a hetero girl at the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival, who is her knight in shining armour ready to save her? He is wearing heals, a wig, and makeup.

    "This led to feminism traditionally having plenty of chiefs but never enough Indians"

    That is an interesting observation which oddly has me wondering about Alma Bridwell White. Things called the Ku Klux Klan appeared and disappeared a few different times in US history. The "second Klan" 1914 - WWII was interesting in that it had a large number of female leaders. Alma Bridwell White being the most notable, and the first female bishop in the US and possibly the major first female religious leader in Christianity. Looking at her picture, I think if she were alive today, she might be aligned as a lesbian. But she was married to a not very notable (no wikipedia page) man. Which is to say she wanted followers and she chose the kind of people who would follow her. They are called men. Men are identified with masculine aggressive leadership, but the reality is most men end up as team members or are basically meek in disposition. Which is to say if you are a woman who wants followers, chose men. Which is to say all the old stereotypes from the 50s and 60s about wives and mother in-laws controlling husbands are really true.

    “Maybe that’s not what’s going on. My guess is many of the (naive) college girls that show up for that music festival held in an isolated area of Michigan are really heterosexual and don’t quite understand what they are getting into. When an aggressive lesbian stalks a hetero girl at the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival, who is her knight in shining armour ready to save her? He is wearing heals, a wig, and makeup.”

    Given the proclivities of guys who wear heels, a wig, and makeup, the adage about “out of the frying pan, into the fire” comes to mind….

  42. The very word “transgender,” which first came into wide use in the nineteen-nineties, encompasses far more people than the term “transsexual” did. It includes not just the small number of people who seek gender-reassignment surgery—according to frequently cited estimates, about one in thirty thousand men and one in a hundred thousand women—but also those who take hormones, or who simply identify with the opposite gender, or, in some cases, with both or with neither.

    Do you have to do anything to be considered trans? Like could a guy just behave exactly the same as he always had and say he identified as a woman?

    • Replies: @Zippy
    Heppy, that's exactly my question. What does it mean to "identify" as a woman? We've established, apparently, that a "transgender person" can have a penis and have no intention of removing it. Apparently, the "transgender person" doesn't have to take hormones.

    So is dressing up in a dress enough? What if the "transgender person" protests the heteronormative cisgender duality by dressing in men's clothes? And maybe growing a beard in solidarity with the bearded ladies at circuses.

    It's enough to say "hi, I'm Sally!"
  43. “What comes after insanity”?

    Thanks. I’ll be stealing that line.

  44. This is sort of related. A good criticism of feminism nonetheless:

    http://thecuriouscontrarian.blogspot.com/2014/07/why-im-not-feminist.html

  45. Boss, have you ever read Pasha Glubb’s “The End of Empires”? If so, have you commented on it? It sure seems that we’re in the decadent declining portion of his analysis.

  46. “The way to break this system is for people to start “identifying” as women and NAMs in order to get preferential treatment for scholarships.”

    Hispanic is the easiest category to accomplish this with. For instance, I was a resident of Puerto Rico for four years. That makes me hispanic. Because I say so. Never mind my Korean/Scots-Irish ancestry. No, I think I’d rather be referred to as Hispanic, and that goes for my kids too. What, you don’t think I’m Hispanic? Away from my sight, vile hatemonger!

  47. Doesn’t it seem like historians centuries from now are going to look back on all this transgender stuff and wonder what the hell kind of hallucinogenic drugs seeped into our water supply? Seriously, it seems like this mass hysteria is going to be a major source of confusion for our distant posterity.

    Can anybody think of a historical example of this kind of kookiness — where nearly all of a society’s best and brightest were pushing some kind of completely obvious nonsense? I’m not talking about religious manias, which belong to a separate category — I mean patent nonsense of the-emperor-has-no-clothes variety, where the truth is obvious to everyone with a functioning brain but everybody is forced to lie for political reasons.

    I’m sure this sort of thing has happened before, but I can’t immediately think of any examples. You guys got anything?

    • Replies: @Simon in London
    "Mr. Blank says:
    July 29, 2014 at 3:13 am GMT (Edit-621926)
    Doesn’t it seem like historians centuries from now are going to look back on all this transgender stuff and wonder what the hell kind of hallucinogenic drugs seeped into our water supply? Seriously, it seems like this mass hysteria is going to be a major source of confusion for our distant posterity."

    Assuming that there are any historians centuries from now, or that we have a posterity. The first historians appeared in Classical Greece, 5th century BC. Historians in the modern sense seem to be a product of the Enlightenment, a genuine curiosity about the past seems to be a Western phenomenon that is hardly universal and could easily disappear along with the rest of our civilisation. We always think in terms of future people being people like us, digging up our relics as we dig up the relics of the Romans, the past civilisation most akin to us by far. But I don't see any reason to think that there is an inevitable historical process at work that will result in people-like-us reappearing in the future after the death of our own civilisation. If we go down that could well be it; game over.
    , @gu
    "I’m sure this sort of thing has happened before, but I can’t immediately think of any examples. You guys got anything?"

    The Terror of the French Revolution comes to mind.
    , @Bill

    Can anybody think of a historical example of this kind of kookiness . . . I mean patent nonsense of the-emperor-has-no-clothes variety, where the truth is obvious to everyone with a functioning brain but everybody is forced to lie for political reasons.
     
    Everyone who wrote critically about the Soviet Union or Red China in their heydays noticed this exact kind of mania. Orwell's 1984. Two minute hates. We have always been at war with EastAsia. Etc. It's a thing on the radical left. They always do this. It's a signature of theirs. It's one of the ways you can tell that NRO is an outpost of the radical left, for example.
  48. You can’t make this shite up! World War T indeed!

  49. @Simon in London
    "Of course, in the long run the lesbian activists and the trans activists will hammer out an accord in which it is announced that everything is the fault of cisgendered straight white men."

    I don't know; rem those macho trans 'women' actually *are* heterosexual straight white men; and the 'radical feminists' know this - they are being oppressed by the old enemy in a very creative way. And it's an enemy who wants to *Steal Our Women*! I think there will always be resistance. And as the trans tyranny spreads, it inevitably ignites resistance. Even straight and not particularly feminist sportswomen don't want to play violent contact sports against men. Games like rugby simply are not viable as full contact sports with both men and women on the field: of course one likely result is that real women simply walk away and leave it to the trans.

    Unfortunately for women, transsexuals are men, and men always win against women. Violence or the threat of violence keeps women in line.

    It’s time to update Susan Brownmiller: “[World War T] is the conscious process of intimidation by which all [transsexual] men keep all [non-transsexual] women in a state of fear.”

  50. @Jefferson
    As socially liberal as The United States is, I am surprised that this country has nowhere near as many Trannies as Philippines, Thailand, and Brasil.

    I wonder why most Gay American males have no interest in trying to look like a woman. Maybe Gay males wanting to look like women is mostly a Brown 3rd world thing.

    Bailey talks about this in The Man Who Would Be Queen, where he argues that the transsexuals in such cultures are generally distinguishable from autogynephilic types, being effeminate boys who are culturally groomed into transitioning early. That’s one reason why they’re prettier, and more genuinely feminine, than the IT geeks, athletes, and film directors who end up transitioning later in life out of an inverted attraction to women. In Western cultures hyper-feminine boys, rather than being routed into hormonal transformation, simply identify as gay.

  51. “‘[T]he term “autogynephilia,” meaning sexual arousal at the thought of oneself as female.’”

    So, in terms of their sexual arousal women – females – think of themselves as…what, exactly?

  52. The most deplorable one [AKA "The fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    So, in terms of their sexual arousal women – females – think of themselves as…what, exactly?

    Well, I suspect that the majority of them think of themselves as female and desire sexual relations with a male.

  53. e says:

    I’ve always been confused about who comprise the customers of Thailand’s she-male prostitutes.

    Straights? Do these transsexual prostitutes entice straight men into thinking they’re women and then only service with oral sex so that the straight John never discovers he has been with a male?

    Or are gay men the major customers of these she-males?

    Over the last few decades we’ve been told that gay males, at least Western ones, prefer masculine guys to feminine guys so if this is true, it would seem they wouldn’t want to be with a male who looked like a beautiful young woman.

    But it that true? Or do many gay males like getting it on with someone who looks like a beautiful woman but who has male genitals?

    Someone has to be paying for the services of these lady men. Who are they?

    • Replies: @Anonn
    It's straight men and interestingly once these ladyboys have their penises removed they can no longer command a high price for services.
    , @Andrew Jackson
    But it that true? Or do many gay males like getting it on with someone who looks like a beautiful woman but who has male genitals?

    Someone has to be paying for the services of these lady men. Who are they?


    Who? Perverts of course. The normalizing of homosexuality leads to such strange questions. If there is a binary sexuality, it is not a choice between "gay" and straight. It is a choice between perverted sexuality and normal sexuality. Homosexual attraction is merely a type of perversion. Attraction to ladyboys is another type of perversion. There may be some overlap between the two. Just as there is some overlap between gays and pedophiles, though pedophilia is a distinct sub-category of perversion as well. This is true of transvesitism as well.
    , @Bill
    e, your problem in understanding is coming from accepting that the concepts homosexual/heterosexual are useful. These concepts were not in use on Earth before the 19th century. They were made up in that century by the nascent psychological establishment. There is a nice article about it here.

    Instead of the homo/hetero distinction, what the West used to have and what most cultures have still was a distinction between girly-men and real-men. Girly men were men who wished to take the penetrated role in sexual intercourse. Real men were men who wished to take the penetrating role in sexual intercourse. That some real men occasionally penetrated girly men instead of women was regarded as unfortunate or neutral, depending on the time and place. That some real men preferred to penetrate girly men rather than women was regarded as an oddity, like being a furry. Girly men were regarded as utterly contemptible, of course.

    Once you make this frame change, all sorts of strange things become non-strange. Why are there two different kinds of homosexuals---the large majority who prefer the submissive role and a small minority who prefer the dominant? Why are there a bunch of "heterosexual" men who visit bathhouses but who only receive, never give? Why are they tolerated? Why do boys schools, prisons, and the navy turn heterosexual men temporarily "gay?" And why to they turn them "gay" in such a particular and strange way---the ones with power forcing the ones without power to play the penetrated role.

    All of these phenomena, which are oddities under the homo/hetero categorization are perfectly natural and understandable under the girly/real categorization. Which is why nobody ever heard of the homo/hetero categorization before Freud's weird chums came up with it.

    In answer to your question, there is nothing strange going on. The Ladyboys are girly men. The men paying them for their services are real men. You might as well ask why men pay female prostitutes to wear latex. It's just a paraphilia. One among many perversions.
  54. The ongoing feud between the TERFs and ‘transgenders’, which is not a medical term, is only possible in a society that tries to divorce society from reality. More like a civil war than a war between two countries, both sides have common concepts and values not at all shared with us outsiders.

    Is there any reason to accept ‘gender’ as a construct separate from sex in the first place? The concept of ‘gender’ as we know it comes from John Money, the researcher who thought sex-appropriate behaviours were conditioned not innate, and produced fraudulent and enethical research to prove it. Nowadays and even then Money’s position was shown to be false.

    The word ‘gender’ was therefore invalid from the outset, and associated with some sick fuck who mutilated infants with no voice, to ‘prove’ that gender is a valid concept. Meanwhilst genderfreaks dependant on Money’s concept for their attention seeking identities fulminate over the real menace: sex researchers who actually help people with real gender dysphoria.

    ‘Lesbians in men’s bodies’ are not women and without allowing people to exclude whoever they like freedom of association is meaningless.

  55. It would be interesting to know why there are more (androphile) transsexuals in places like Thailand and the Philippines than here in W Europe. Does it correlate with low sexual dimorphism in certain populations.

    I notice ‘Auntie Analogue’ has popped up with the anti-Bailey/Blanchard/Lawrence crap that misrepresents autogynephilia. Moser investigated how common ‘autogynephilia’ is in women and, despite dearly wanting to disprove Blanchard, still found a huge gulf between the degree of autogynephilia in real (sorry, natal) women. Veale, who is also misquoted by transgender activists, also found a similar disconnect between the degrees of AG reported in autogynephile and androphile transsexuals.

    Its presence in women is likely an artefact of Blanchard’s own operationalisation, but if it isn’t, the gulf is still meaningful. ‘Lesbians in men’s bodies’ are therefore found to be sexualising themselves in a way women do not.

    Give it up.

  56. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Yes Steve, it’s quite a conundrum, and an amusing conundrum at that for the unreconstructed meat and potatoes males, at least.
    Basically, here we no longer have the ancient and time honored battle of supremacy between *ahem* lingam and yoni , the yin and yang, the active and passive etc, etc, but the battle between excised and the even more excised who are duking it out to be the more assertive and forceful, if you see what I mean, the yardstick, (no pun intended), the new PC dominance is that ‘she that who is less potent is more powerful’. Anti-phallicism taken to the ultimate extreme, the new settlement where the loss of power represents the gain of ultimate power.

    Reminds me a bit of those cults in ancient Babylon and elsewhere in times BC, when devotees of the sex-based religious cults did all sorts of weird things to gain the approval of their gods, only this time around the great god of PC is infinitely more powerful and supplications to her actually have demonstrable power with the so-called ‘great and good’.

  57. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    [MORE]
    Yes Steve, it’s quite a conundrum, and an amusing conundrum at that for the unreconstructed meat and potatoes males, at least.
    Basically, here we no longer have the ancient and time honored battle of supremacy between *ahem* lingam and yoni , the yin and yang, the active and passive etc, etc, but the battle between excised and the even more excised who are duking it out to be the more assertive and forceful, if you see what I mean, the yardstick, (no pun intended), the new PC dominance is that ‘she that who is less potent is more powerful’. Anti-phallicism taken to the ultimate extreme, the new settlement where the loss of power represents the gain of ultimate power.

    Reminds me a bit of those cults in ancient Babylon and elsewhere in times BC, when devotees of the sex-based religious cults did all sorts of weird things to gain the approval of their gods, only this time around the great god of PC is infinitely more powerful and supplications to her actually have demonstrable power with the so-called ‘great and good’.

  58. @Jefferson
    As socially liberal as The United States is, I am surprised that this country has nowhere near as many Trannies as Philippines, Thailand, and Brasil.

    I wonder why most Gay American males have no interest in trying to look like a woman. Maybe Gay males wanting to look like women is mostly a Brown 3rd world thing.

    It’s probably more a function of the level of sex tourism.

  59. @TGGP
    One such outpost of radical feminist lesbianism is Gender Identity Watch. They've covered the bizarre attempt by men-identifying-as-women to shame lesbians as bigots for not desiring relationships with them. The trans-activists even devised a neologism for this: the "cotton ceiling". What cotton has to do with anything I don't know.

    See also the neologism “terf”

  60. @e
    I've always been confused about who comprise the customers of Thailand's she-male prostitutes.

    Straights? Do these transsexual prostitutes entice straight men into thinking they're women and then only service with oral sex so that the straight John never discovers he has been with a male?

    Or are gay men the major customers of these she-males?

    Over the last few decades we've been told that gay males, at least Western ones, prefer masculine guys to feminine guys so if this is true, it would seem they wouldn't want to be with a male who looked like a beautiful young woman.

    But it that true? Or do many gay males like getting it on with someone who looks like a beautiful woman but who has male genitals?

    Someone has to be paying for the services of these lady men. Who are they?

    It’s straight men and interestingly once these ladyboys have their penises removed they can no longer command a high price for services.

  61. @Mr. Blank
    Doesn't it seem like historians centuries from now are going to look back on all this transgender stuff and wonder what the hell kind of hallucinogenic drugs seeped into our water supply? Seriously, it seems like this mass hysteria is going to be a major source of confusion for our distant posterity.

    Can anybody think of a historical example of this kind of kookiness — where nearly all of a society's best and brightest were pushing some kind of completely obvious nonsense? I'm not talking about religious manias, which belong to a separate category — I mean patent nonsense of the-emperor-has-no-clothes variety, where the truth is obvious to everyone with a functioning brain but everybody is forced to lie for political reasons.

    I'm sure this sort of thing has happened before, but I can't immediately think of any examples. You guys got anything?

    “Mr. Blank says:
    July 29, 2014 at 3:13 am GMT (Edit-621926)
    Doesn’t it seem like historians centuries from now are going to look back on all this transgender stuff and wonder what the hell kind of hallucinogenic drugs seeped into our water supply? Seriously, it seems like this mass hysteria is going to be a major source of confusion for our distant posterity.”

    Assuming that there are any historians centuries from now, or that we have a posterity. The first historians appeared in Classical Greece, 5th century BC. Historians in the modern sense seem to be a product of the Enlightenment, a genuine curiosity about the past seems to be a Western phenomenon that is hardly universal and could easily disappear along with the rest of our civilisation. We always think in terms of future people being people like us, digging up our relics as we dig up the relics of the Romans, the past civilisation most akin to us by far. But I don’t see any reason to think that there is an inevitable historical process at work that will result in people-like-us reappearing in the future after the death of our own civilisation. If we go down that could well be it; game over.

  62. But if it’s natural and predictable that the most-masculine, most-aggressive would win this “battle” – how come the whole gang of feminists isn’t being completely routed by actual men? Why don’t they just say, “Shut up, women – and lesbians too!”

  63. @Hepp

    The very word “transgender,” which first came into wide use in the nineteen-nineties, encompasses far more people than the term “transsexual” did. It includes not just the small number of people who seek gender-reassignment surgery—according to frequently cited estimates, about one in thirty thousand men and one in a hundred thousand women—but also those who take hormones, or who simply identify with the opposite gender, or, in some cases, with both or with neither.
     
    Do you have to do anything to be considered trans? Like could a guy just behave exactly the same as he always had and say he identified as a woman?

    Heppy, that’s exactly my question. What does it mean to “identify” as a woman? We’ve established, apparently, that a “transgender person” can have a penis and have no intention of removing it. Apparently, the “transgender person” doesn’t have to take hormones.

    So is dressing up in a dress enough? What if the “transgender person” protests the heteronormative cisgender duality by dressing in men’s clothes? And maybe growing a beard in solidarity with the bearded ladies at circuses.

    It’s enough to say “hi, I’m Sally!”

  64. “The members of the board of the New York Abortion Access Fund, an all-volunteer group that helps to pay for abortions for those who can’t afford them”

    This is a purely unnecessary program. Doesn’t welfare or government benefits pay for the poor’s abortions and have for like decades?

    On a more masculine and semi-cisgendered topic, yesterday Derek Jeter passed Carl Yaztremski for sixth place on the all time hits list. Next up, Honus Wagner.

  65. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Simon, I’m pretty sure the Chinese will keep the lamps of scholarship burning, if nothing else
    Although a spft subject and not one their hard science fortes the Chinese have an intense interest in what made white people tick and they came to humiliate amd domimate them for a few brief years. The Chinese taking to the scholarly historical analysis the west taught them like ducks to water will simply luxuriate in the tomes of their future Edward Gibbons nothing but nothing will fascinate them more. Rest assured the legend will live on deep in the Chinese future. Apart from the putative Edward Gibbons you’ll get semi mythological Arthurian/dinosaur type legend for the kiddies.

  66. @Rapparee
    My uncle used to work at an office with a big-time bodybuilder and juicer. Eventually, the guy decided he had always really been a woman on the inside, and got himself legally sex-changed. The grimly hilarious part was that, from all appearances, he was still just as 'roided-up as ever before- this "woman" had biceps easily twice the size of mine. He looked like an aging third-tier WWE wrestler in a brunette wig.

    I saw a couple of burly Hispanic “tranwomen” the other day. They definitely needed to shop in the Big Girl’s Department.

  67. @syonredux
    "In May, they voted unanimously to stop using the word “women” when talking about people who get pregnant, so as not to exclude trans men."

    What comes after insanity?

    Joe Biden as President?

  68. WhatEvvs [AKA "Cookies"] says:
    @syonredux
    Seems that transvestite model Andrej Pejic has now "transitioned" to female:

    http://www.ibtimes.com/andreja-pejic-photos-2014-transgender-model-thanks-facebook-fans-1640326

    For further news on the transgendered model, front:

    http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2014/02/25/tim-gunn-conflicted-about-trans-models

    Seems that Tim Gunn dares to question the wisdom of having men model women's clothes:

    "The fact that fashion designers would put basically adolescent-shaped boys or men in women's clothes is head-scratching for me because, anatomically, women and men have different shapes," the Project Runway star told HuffPo. "So, to be looking at women's fashion on a tall, skinny guy with no hips, there's no way you can project yourself into those clothes."

    Tim Gunn is representative of a certain type of elite gay man who grew up closeted, survived a lot of turmoil, and came out sane. I think if he had his druthers he would have been straight but he wasn’t and that’s the breaks. I know a lot of gay guys like him but they keep their mouths shut because if they say what they think they’d be torn to shreds. So the crazies rule. Ain’t America grand?

    • Replies: @e
    "Tim Gunn is representative of a certain type of elite gay man who grew up closeted, survived a lot of turmoil, and came out sane. I think if he had his druthers he would have been straight but he wasn’t and that’s the breaks."

    Well, he's right, of course. Clothes hanging like limp rags on a bag of bones is unattractive to real women. The more androgynous the bodies of the models have become over the decades, the more work has been done on their hair (at least their runway hair) and, of course, on their faces--botox for full lips, for example.

    On the subject of his having grown up "closeted," I wonder how closeted Gunn really could have been. Unless his speaking style and gestures as a young boy and young adult were quite different from what he exhibits now, there's no mistaking his gayness.
  69. WhatEvvs [AKA "Cookies"] says:
    @Simon in London
    "Of course, in the long run the lesbian activists and the trans activists will hammer out an accord in which it is announced that everything is the fault of cisgendered straight white men."

    I don't know; rem those macho trans 'women' actually *are* heterosexual straight white men; and the 'radical feminists' know this - they are being oppressed by the old enemy in a very creative way. And it's an enemy who wants to *Steal Our Women*! I think there will always be resistance. And as the trans tyranny spreads, it inevitably ignites resistance. Even straight and not particularly feminist sportswomen don't want to play violent contact sports against men. Games like rugby simply are not viable as full contact sports with both men and women on the field: of course one likely result is that real women simply walk away and leave it to the trans.

    “And as the trans tyranny spreads, it inevitably ignites resistance.”

    Yes. I don’t agree with Steve Sailer on this.

    Here is what I think will happen – when women (I mean, real women) demand all sorts of silly things from men, men comply as best they can because they want sex and no matter how they protest, legitimate families to pass on their genetic and cultural heritage. (Although I realize that doing this has been horribly complicated by modernity, it’s still so.)

    When women ask too much, they retreat to male pastimes and take a rest.

    This dealmaking has been around as long as humanity.

    Now, these monstrous fake “transwomen” are making demands of men. Why should men comply? There is no reason. They arouse revulsion in any normal man. “Transwomen” will demand that men recognize them as women, and men will indeed rebel violently against this, because it is a bridge too far. What will women do? Watch the fight and hope that men win.

    All in all this is the consequence of two generations of feminism, in which women demanded that men stop protecting them. Well, they did, but men won’t stop protecting themselves. Men will never consider “transwomen” as women, because they are not fundamentally masochistic.

    • Replies: @gu
    "men comply as best they can because they want sex"

    Complying with women is the worst thing you can do if you want to get laid.
  70. e says:
    @WhatEvvs
    Tim Gunn is representative of a certain type of elite gay man who grew up closeted, survived a lot of turmoil, and came out sane. I think if he had his druthers he would have been straight but he wasn't and that's the breaks. I know a lot of gay guys like him but they keep their mouths shut because if they say what they think they'd be torn to shreds. So the crazies rule. Ain't America grand?

    “Tim Gunn is representative of a certain type of elite gay man who grew up closeted, survived a lot of turmoil, and came out sane. I think if he had his druthers he would have been straight but he wasn’t and that’s the breaks.”

    Well, he’s right, of course. Clothes hanging like limp rags on a bag of bones is unattractive to real women. The more androgynous the bodies of the models have become over the decades, the more work has been done on their hair (at least their runway hair) and, of course, on their faces–botox for full lips, for example.

    On the subject of his having grown up “closeted,” I wonder how closeted Gunn really could have been. Unless his speaking style and gestures as a young boy and young adult were quite different from what he exhibits now, there’s no mistaking his gayness.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    "On the subject of his having grown up “closeted,” I wonder how closeted Gunn really could have been. Unless his speaking style and gestures as a young boy and young adult were quite different from what he exhibits now, there’s no mistaking his gayness."

    Closeted in Gunn's case would, presumably, have just been a matter of not publicly talking about it.
    For parallels, look at the careers of Cole Porter and Noel Coward. Their actual orientations were an open secret in elite circles; it was just not discussed.
  71. @syonredux
    Seems that transvestite model Andrej Pejic has now "transitioned" to female:

    http://www.ibtimes.com/andreja-pejic-photos-2014-transgender-model-thanks-facebook-fans-1640326

    For further news on the transgendered model, front:

    http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2014/02/25/tim-gunn-conflicted-about-trans-models

    Seems that Tim Gunn dares to question the wisdom of having men model women's clothes:

    "The fact that fashion designers would put basically adolescent-shaped boys or men in women's clothes is head-scratching for me because, anatomically, women and men have different shapes," the Project Runway star told HuffPo. "So, to be looking at women's fashion on a tall, skinny guy with no hips, there's no way you can project yourself into those clothes."

    “So, to be looking at women’s fashion on a tall, skinny guy with no hips, there’s no way you can project yourself into those clothes.”

    I thought tall, skinny, and with no hips was a classic type of female model. Think Kate Moss and (for real oldsters) Twiggy.

    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    Twiggy was a one-off. She was notably thin even for her day. The top model of her day was Jean Shrimpton who was slim but feminine. Google her.

    Kate Moss has feminine hips.

    This whole business about models is silly - models have always been taller and thinner than the norm, but girlishly so. Google Suzy Parker. Only recently has the boyishly, freakishly slim model become the norm. Even so a girl's a girl no matter how skinny. Natalya Vodyanova just had her 4th kid.

    About Gunn being in the closet, back in the day it was 'don't ask don't tell.' Everyone knew who was what, it just wasn't trumpeted. If you didn't bother people, people didn't bother them. The whole gay-bashing thing is propaganda - if you didn't proposition a straight guy, you stayed out of trouble. Something tells me that the Gunn types wish it were still that way, but it's not so they gotta come out.
    , @syonredux
    "I thought tall, skinny, and with no hips was a classic type of female model. Think Kate Moss and (for real oldsters) Twiggy."

    Gunn seems to realize that substituting boyish girls with actual boys would be going a step too far. It would totally remove femininity from fashion. Gunn, I would say, does not want the revolution to reach its logical conclusion.

  72. @Mr. Blank
    Doesn't it seem like historians centuries from now are going to look back on all this transgender stuff and wonder what the hell kind of hallucinogenic drugs seeped into our water supply? Seriously, it seems like this mass hysteria is going to be a major source of confusion for our distant posterity.

    Can anybody think of a historical example of this kind of kookiness — where nearly all of a society's best and brightest were pushing some kind of completely obvious nonsense? I'm not talking about religious manias, which belong to a separate category — I mean patent nonsense of the-emperor-has-no-clothes variety, where the truth is obvious to everyone with a functioning brain but everybody is forced to lie for political reasons.

    I'm sure this sort of thing has happened before, but I can't immediately think of any examples. You guys got anything?

    “I’m sure this sort of thing has happened before, but I can’t immediately think of any examples. You guys got anything?”

    The Terror of the French Revolution comes to mind.

  73. @WhatEvvs
    "And as the trans tyranny spreads, it inevitably ignites resistance."

    Yes. I don't agree with Steve Sailer on this.

    Here is what I think will happen - when women (I mean, real women) demand all sorts of silly things from men, men comply as best they can because they want sex and no matter how they protest, legitimate families to pass on their genetic and cultural heritage. (Although I realize that doing this has been horribly complicated by modernity, it's still so.)

    When women ask too much, they retreat to male pastimes and take a rest.

    This dealmaking has been around as long as humanity.

    Now, these monstrous fake "transwomen" are making demands of men. Why should men comply? There is no reason. They arouse revulsion in any normal man. "Transwomen" will demand that men recognize them as women, and men will indeed rebel violently against this, because it is a bridge too far. What will women do? Watch the fight and hope that men win.

    All in all this is the consequence of two generations of feminism, in which women demanded that men stop protecting them. Well, they did, but men won't stop protecting themselves. Men will never consider "transwomen" as women, because they are not fundamentally masochistic.

    “men comply as best they can because they want sex”

    Complying with women is the worst thing you can do if you want to get laid.

    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    We'll have to agree to disagree, dear.
  74. Did you know Mickey Mantle usually took the day off when I pitched?

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @hi this Don Mossi

    Just a second, boy-o. How'd Detroit do in '61? Oh, that's right, choked away under Maris' 61, and Whitey Ford's Cy Young award winning season. You guys have no kick coming with that roster. Al Kaline one of AL's best all time RFers? Hall of Fame Jim Bunning? Norm Cash? Jim Northup? Rocky Colavito? And you STILL couldn't get it done cause you choked just before Labor Day! Choked, choked, choked. The Tiger was tamed by the Pinstripes, the ALs greatest 20th century franchise.

    Yeah, but Skowron could always hit vs you when it counted most along with Howard, and even Yogi.

    I suppose Mickey took the day off vs Jim Bunning and Frank Lary as well, huh? Forgetaboutit.

    Know why? Cause you lost that opening game of July 4 doubleheader to Whitey Ford and from then on it was smooth sailing for the Bronx Bombers.

  75. WhatEvvs [AKA "Cookies"] says:
    @Seamus
    “So, to be looking at women’s fashion on a tall, skinny guy with no hips, there’s no way you can project yourself into those clothes.”

    I thought tall, skinny, and with no hips was a classic type of female model. Think Kate Moss and (for real oldsters) Twiggy.

    Twiggy was a one-off. She was notably thin even for her day. The top model of her day was Jean Shrimpton who was slim but feminine. Google her.

    Kate Moss has feminine hips.

    This whole business about models is silly – models have always been taller and thinner than the norm, but girlishly so. Google Suzy Parker. Only recently has the boyishly, freakishly slim model become the norm. Even so a girl’s a girl no matter how skinny. Natalya Vodyanova just had her 4th kid.

    About Gunn being in the closet, back in the day it was ‘don’t ask don’t tell.’ Everyone knew who was what, it just wasn’t trumpeted. If you didn’t bother people, people didn’t bother them. The whole gay-bashing thing is propaganda – if you didn’t proposition a straight guy, you stayed out of trouble. Something tells me that the Gunn types wish it were still that way, but it’s not so they gotta come out.

  76. @syonredux
    "In the book, Jeffreys calls detransitioners like Russell “survivors,” and cites them as evidence that transgenderism isn’t immutable and thus doesn’t warrant radical medical intervention. (She considers gender-reassignment surgery a form of mutilation.) “The phenomenon of regret undermines the idea that there exists a particular kind of person who is genuinely and essentially transgender and can be identified accurately by psychiatrists,” she writes. “It is radically destabilising to the transgender project.” She cites as further evidence the case of Bradley Cooper, who, in 2011, at the age of seventeen, became Britain’s youngest gender-reassignment patient, then publicly regretted his transition the next year and returned to living as a boy. Jeffreys is especially alarmed by doctors in Europe, Australia, and the United States who treat transgender children with puberty-delaying drugs, which prevent them from developing unwanted secondary sex characteristics and can result in sterilization."


    What does it mean when someone like Jeffreys is the sanest person in the room?

    What does it mean when someone like Jeffreys is the sanest person in the room?

    That the door should be locked from the outside, or better, permanently sealed?

    • Replies: @Anonn
    She (SJ) also spoke out about Islamic groups at the university who demand and receive sex segregated meetings and classes. On the other hand I have heard her say that ALL heterosexual sex is rape and that all women must choose to become lesbians.
  77. @gu
    "men comply as best they can because they want sex"

    Complying with women is the worst thing you can do if you want to get laid.

    We’ll have to agree to disagree, dear.

  78. @Seamus
    “So, to be looking at women’s fashion on a tall, skinny guy with no hips, there’s no way you can project yourself into those clothes.”

    I thought tall, skinny, and with no hips was a classic type of female model. Think Kate Moss and (for real oldsters) Twiggy.

    “I thought tall, skinny, and with no hips was a classic type of female model. Think Kate Moss and (for real oldsters) Twiggy.”

    Gunn seems to realize that substituting boyish girls with actual boys would be going a step too far. It would totally remove femininity from fashion. Gunn, I would say, does not want the revolution to reach its logical conclusion.

  79. @e
    "Tim Gunn is representative of a certain type of elite gay man who grew up closeted, survived a lot of turmoil, and came out sane. I think if he had his druthers he would have been straight but he wasn’t and that’s the breaks."

    Well, he's right, of course. Clothes hanging like limp rags on a bag of bones is unattractive to real women. The more androgynous the bodies of the models have become over the decades, the more work has been done on their hair (at least their runway hair) and, of course, on their faces--botox for full lips, for example.

    On the subject of his having grown up "closeted," I wonder how closeted Gunn really could have been. Unless his speaking style and gestures as a young boy and young adult were quite different from what he exhibits now, there's no mistaking his gayness.

    “On the subject of his having grown up “closeted,” I wonder how closeted Gunn really could have been. Unless his speaking style and gestures as a young boy and young adult were quite different from what he exhibits now, there’s no mistaking his gayness.”

    Closeted in Gunn’s case would, presumably, have just been a matter of not publicly talking about it.
    For parallels, look at the careers of Cole Porter and Noel Coward. Their actual orientations were an open secret in elite circles; it was just not discussed.

    • Replies: @WhatEvvs
    "it was just not discussed."

    In polite company. In other words, being an adult. A defunct concept.
  80. @vinteuil
    Btw - did anybody anticipate anthony daniels' point about the real purpose of propaganda? Or is that insight his alone?

    Btw – did anybody anticipate anthony daniels’ point about the real purpose of propaganda? Or is that insight his alone?

    Very droll. Solzhenitsyn. Havel. Others. They were talking about Marxists rather than Cultural Marxists, but it’s the same thing.

  81. @Sam Haysom
    Steve's point makes no sense because after all if masculine urge to dominate always wins then how was feminism so successful. I get it Steve thinks he hit a gold mine with the transsexual ex-Harvard QB, but the jokes are getting in the way of clear thinking. Like the poster above says it's the media stupid never ever ever bet against the media. The media could make Achilles into a stupid jock with mommy issues in six months and he's be crying again this time not for a slave girl, but because Odysseus and Agamemnon always make fun of him.

    Steve’s point makes no sense because after all if masculine urge to dominate always wins then how was feminism so successful.

    You are implicitly assuming that feminism was a female project. This is about as accurate as assuming that the civil rights movement was a black project.

  82. @Mr. Blank
    Doesn't it seem like historians centuries from now are going to look back on all this transgender stuff and wonder what the hell kind of hallucinogenic drugs seeped into our water supply? Seriously, it seems like this mass hysteria is going to be a major source of confusion for our distant posterity.

    Can anybody think of a historical example of this kind of kookiness — where nearly all of a society's best and brightest were pushing some kind of completely obvious nonsense? I'm not talking about religious manias, which belong to a separate category — I mean patent nonsense of the-emperor-has-no-clothes variety, where the truth is obvious to everyone with a functioning brain but everybody is forced to lie for political reasons.

    I'm sure this sort of thing has happened before, but I can't immediately think of any examples. You guys got anything?

    Can anybody think of a historical example of this kind of kookiness . . . I mean patent nonsense of the-emperor-has-no-clothes variety, where the truth is obvious to everyone with a functioning brain but everybody is forced to lie for political reasons.

    Everyone who wrote critically about the Soviet Union or Red China in their heydays noticed this exact kind of mania. Orwell’s 1984. Two minute hates. We have always been at war with EastAsia. Etc. It’s a thing on the radical left. They always do this. It’s a signature of theirs. It’s one of the ways you can tell that NRO is an outpost of the radical left, for example.

  83. Cookies,
    “transwomen” have no desire to be recognised as women in any more than a superficial sense, they choose the trans label to stress the act of crossing. Demanding you use female pronouns whilst they themselves stress their ‘outsideness’ relevant to the gender boundary, is part of the kick for a transgressive deviant.

    • Replies: @Shuddh Bharatiyaan
    “transwomen” have no desire to be recognised as women in any more than a superficial sense, they choose the trans label to stress the act of crossing."


    This may be the case for transvestites but not for transexuals/transgenders.
    , @WhatEvvs
    Hm. I think this is true of the masculine autogynephiles but not of the femme-boys who wore pink princess outfits when they were age 2. They really want to be women.
  84. @Anonymous
    Did you know Mickey Mantle usually took the day off when I pitched?

    @hi this Don Mossi

    Just a second, boy-o. How’d Detroit do in ’61? Oh, that’s right, choked away under Maris’ 61, and Whitey Ford’s Cy Young award winning season. You guys have no kick coming with that roster. Al Kaline one of AL’s best all time RFers? Hall of Fame Jim Bunning? Norm Cash? Jim Northup? Rocky Colavito? And you STILL couldn’t get it done cause you choked just before Labor Day! Choked, choked, choked. The Tiger was tamed by the Pinstripes, the ALs greatest 20th century franchise.

    Yeah, but Skowron could always hit vs you when it counted most along with Howard, and even Yogi.

    I suppose Mickey took the day off vs Jim Bunning and Frank Lary as well, huh? Forgetaboutit.

    Know why? Cause you lost that opening game of July 4 doubleheader to Whitey Ford and from then on it was smooth sailing for the Bronx Bombers.

  85. @syonredux
    "On the subject of his having grown up “closeted,” I wonder how closeted Gunn really could have been. Unless his speaking style and gestures as a young boy and young adult were quite different from what he exhibits now, there’s no mistaking his gayness."

    Closeted in Gunn's case would, presumably, have just been a matter of not publicly talking about it.
    For parallels, look at the careers of Cole Porter and Noel Coward. Their actual orientations were an open secret in elite circles; it was just not discussed.

    “it was just not discussed.”

    In polite company. In other words, being an adult. A defunct concept.

  86. @Critical Eye
    What does it mean when someone like Jeffreys is the sanest person in the room?

    That the door should be locked from the outside, or better, permanently sealed?

    She (SJ) also spoke out about Islamic groups at the university who demand and receive sex segregated meetings and classes. On the other hand I have heard her say that ALL heterosexual sex is rape and that all women must choose to become lesbians.

  87. Islam is a religion anyone can join. Is there any reason why Moslems (or TERFs) should be denied their own sex segregated spaces as long as they weren’t demanding that others segregate themselves?

    I thought not.

  88. @B and B
    Cookies,
    "transwomen" have no desire to be recognised as women in any more than a superficial sense, they choose the trans label to stress the act of crossing. Demanding you use female pronouns whilst they themselves stress their 'outsideness' relevant to the gender boundary, is part of the kick for a transgressive deviant.

    “transwomen” have no desire to be recognised as women in any more than a superficial sense, they choose the trans label to stress the act of crossing.”

    This may be the case for transvestites but not for transexuals/transgenders.

  89. @Rohan Swee
    ...mostly young women; Alison Turkos, the group’s co-chair, is twenty-six. In May, they voted unanimously to stop using the word “women” when talking about people who get pregnant, so as not to exclude trans men.

    The Boomers (and the "greatest generation", too) have a great deal to answer for, for the moral and intellectual Bedlam to which they abandoned the younger generations. These kids didn't start out crazy.

    At least the lesbian ladies seem to realize their own interest. I've often asked nice SWPL ladies why they think the elevation of male homosexuality in a society is good for the status of women in the long run. Say, for example, letting gay male couples hire surrogate wombs to get progeny. Do they really believe that selling off the last vestiges of a strictly female function that was regarded as fundamentally important to society - motherhood - is really a smart move? Confused looks. Nice SWPL ladies don't really think things through, do they?

    “Say, for example, letting gay male couples hire surrogate wombs to get progeny. Do they really believe that selling off the last vestiges of a strictly female function that was regarded as fundamentally important to society – motherhood – is really a smart move?”

    Men and transwomen need cis-gendered female/womyn wombs to obtain children. That’ one last vestige that they will never have. Unless and until science advances to that point. Which will be a long time, if ever.

    Men and transwomen are not womb-men or wombyn and probably never will be.

  90. Shudh, there is no such thing as ‘transgendered’ it isn’t a medical term and includes transvestites in its definition of ‘gender nonconformism.’

    When a transitioning or post-transition person uses the word transgendered to describe themselves, it deliberately excludes themselves from normal womanhood or manhood.

  91. @e
    I've always been confused about who comprise the customers of Thailand's she-male prostitutes.

    Straights? Do these transsexual prostitutes entice straight men into thinking they're women and then only service with oral sex so that the straight John never discovers he has been with a male?

    Or are gay men the major customers of these she-males?

    Over the last few decades we've been told that gay males, at least Western ones, prefer masculine guys to feminine guys so if this is true, it would seem they wouldn't want to be with a male who looked like a beautiful young woman.

    But it that true? Or do many gay males like getting it on with someone who looks like a beautiful woman but who has male genitals?

    Someone has to be paying for the services of these lady men. Who are they?

    But it that true? Or do many gay males like getting it on with someone who looks like a beautiful woman but who has male genitals?

    Someone has to be paying for the services of these lady men. Who are they?

    Who? Perverts of course. The normalizing of homosexuality leads to such strange questions. If there is a binary sexuality, it is not a choice between “gay” and straight. It is a choice between perverted sexuality and normal sexuality. Homosexual attraction is merely a type of perversion. Attraction to ladyboys is another type of perversion. There may be some overlap between the two. Just as there is some overlap between gays and pedophiles, though pedophilia is a distinct sub-category of perversion as well. This is true of transvesitism as well.

  92. Shuddh Bharatiyaan: Men and transwomen need cis-gendered female/womyn wombs to obtain children. That’ one last vestige that they will never have. Unless and until science advances to that point. Which will be a long time, if ever.

    My point is that letting two male “parents” rent out a womb degrades the status of “mother” regardless of whether the services of an actual female are still necessary somewhere in the commodity chain. Just as regarding two female “parents” as just peachy degrades the role of man as father.

  93. @e
    I've always been confused about who comprise the customers of Thailand's she-male prostitutes.

    Straights? Do these transsexual prostitutes entice straight men into thinking they're women and then only service with oral sex so that the straight John never discovers he has been with a male?

    Or are gay men the major customers of these she-males?

    Over the last few decades we've been told that gay males, at least Western ones, prefer masculine guys to feminine guys so if this is true, it would seem they wouldn't want to be with a male who looked like a beautiful young woman.

    But it that true? Or do many gay males like getting it on with someone who looks like a beautiful woman but who has male genitals?

    Someone has to be paying for the services of these lady men. Who are they?

    e, your problem in understanding is coming from accepting that the concepts homosexual/heterosexual are useful. These concepts were not in use on Earth before the 19th century. They were made up in that century by the nascent psychological establishment. There is a nice article about it here.

    Instead of the homo/hetero distinction, what the West used to have and what most cultures have still was a distinction between girly-men and real-men. Girly men were men who wished to take the penetrated role in sexual intercourse. Real men were men who wished to take the penetrating role in sexual intercourse. That some real men occasionally penetrated girly men instead of women was regarded as unfortunate or neutral, depending on the time and place. That some real men preferred to penetrate girly men rather than women was regarded as an oddity, like being a furry. Girly men were regarded as utterly contemptible, of course.

    Once you make this frame change, all sorts of strange things become non-strange. Why are there two different kinds of homosexuals—the large majority who prefer the submissive role and a small minority who prefer the dominant? Why are there a bunch of “heterosexual” men who visit bathhouses but who only receive, never give? Why are they tolerated? Why do boys schools, prisons, and the navy turn heterosexual men temporarily “gay?” And why to they turn them “gay” in such a particular and strange way—the ones with power forcing the ones without power to play the penetrated role.

    All of these phenomena, which are oddities under the homo/hetero categorization are perfectly natural and understandable under the girly/real categorization. Which is why nobody ever heard of the homo/hetero categorization before Freud’s weird chums came up with it.

    In answer to your question, there is nothing strange going on. The Ladyboys are girly men. The men paying them for their services are real men. You might as well ask why men pay female prostitutes to wear latex. It’s just a paraphilia. One among many perversions.

  94. @B and B
    Cookies,
    "transwomen" have no desire to be recognised as women in any more than a superficial sense, they choose the trans label to stress the act of crossing. Demanding you use female pronouns whilst they themselves stress their 'outsideness' relevant to the gender boundary, is part of the kick for a transgressive deviant.

    Hm. I think this is true of the masculine autogynephiles but not of the femme-boys who wore pink princess outfits when they were age 2. They really want to be women.

  95. I don’t think either conservatives or liberals have much of a grasp of cross dressing behaviour in males.

    The typical male cross dresser is an unassuming anxious introvert who cross dressers primarily for stress relief. Cross dressing tends to suddenly increase in the early 40s when testosterone levels decline and family responsibilities peak. At this time a few of the more extreme cross dressers may consider sex change operations. Cross dressing is less frequent in extroverts (even low T ones) so it’s also likely it’s related to problems with emotional expression. Cross dressers tend to have above average intelligence and hold down relatively good jobs. Most of them indulge in low level cross dressing in private and are not politically active. They also constitute about 10 percent of the male population in western countries and perhaps even higher levels in countries like Japan where their are more anxious introverts.

    Actually it’s the low level cross dressers who are more likely to do it for sexual reasons, as they don’t usually start cross dressing until the teenage years, while the hard core cross dressers tend to start as young children.

    Personally I don’t think cross dressers should be either encouraged or ridiculed. Society should recognise that’s a significant minority of the male population does it and the urge to cross dress or fantasise about being a woman per se isn’t that weird – after all hard core porn is pretty disgusting, but liberal society says it’s ok to watch hard core porn but perverted for a man to wear women’s tights – something that was perfectly acceptable 200 years ago.

  96. Transformers!
    They’re more than meets the eye…

    Optimus Prime has joined forces with Starscream to invade the radical lesbian conventions!

  97. Something that isn’t mentioned in all of this is how the Olivia records type feminist was all about mother earth goddess, nature, menstrual cycles, all that. There is nothing more brave new worldishly unnatural than turning your body into a chemistry-frankenstein experiment. To quote Mary Daly, the 7o’s radfem par excellence: “Today the Frankenstein phenomenon is omnipresent not only in religious myth, but in its offspring, phallocratic technology. The insane desire for power, the madness of boundary violation, is the mark of necrophiliacs who sense the lack of soul/spirit/life-loving principle with themselves and therefore try to invade and kill off all spirit, substituting conglomerates of corpses. This necrophilic invasion/elimination takes a variety of forms. Transsexualism is an example of male surgical siring which invades the female world with substitutes.”

    If these remaining old-school feminists has any integrity, they’d own up to their hero’s position.

    I can say that for once, I’m in agreement with the Old Battle Axe, this WWT stuff crosses a transhumanist frontier that really takes us into some weird, disturbing shit. Most leftists have a fear of techno-transhumanist-cyborg stuff. WWT, on the other hand, brings them into that loop. It’s a violation of the natural as profound as any GMO tech.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    So that helps explain some things: WWT hits the right chords among the libertarian sci-fi singularity I'm never gonna die because I'm gonna have my head frozen crowd.
  98. @yaqub the mad scientist
    Something that isn't mentioned in all of this is how the Olivia records type feminist was all about mother earth goddess, nature, menstrual cycles, all that. There is nothing more brave new worldishly unnatural than turning your body into a chemistry-frankenstein experiment. To quote Mary Daly, the 7o's radfem par excellence: "Today the Frankenstein phenomenon is omnipresent not only in religious myth, but in its offspring, phallocratic technology. The insane desire for power, the madness of boundary violation, is the mark of necrophiliacs who sense the lack of soul/spirit/life-loving principle with themselves and therefore try to invade and kill off all spirit, substituting conglomerates of corpses. This necrophilic invasion/elimination takes a variety of forms. Transsexualism is an example of male surgical siring which invades the female world with substitutes.”

    If these remaining old-school feminists has any integrity, they'd own up to their hero's position.

    I can say that for once, I'm in agreement with the Old Battle Axe, this WWT stuff crosses a transhumanist frontier that really takes us into some weird, disturbing shit. Most leftists have a fear of techno-transhumanist-cyborg stuff. WWT, on the other hand, brings them into that loop. It's a violation of the natural as profound as any GMO tech.

    So that helps explain some things: WWT hits the right chords among the libertarian sci-fi singularity I’m never gonna die because I’m gonna have my head frozen crowd.

  99. Personally I don’t think cross dressers should be either encouraged or ridiculed.

    There’s just no middle ground with you, is there?

    • Replies: @unpc downunder
    Basically I'm trying to say that I lean towards the Asian attitude to transsexuals and hard core cross dressers. Tolerate and acknowledge them in an informal sense but discourage them from obtaining legal status as females and undertaking gender re-assignment surgery.

    My previous comment was a bit didactic and long-winded, but I was trying to make the point that the majority of cross dressers aren't hyper-sexed perverts. Obviously they get some sexual arousal from cross dressing, but the main thing that keeps them doing it is the stress relieving effects identified by Hans Eysenck back in the 1970s.

    Perhaps their is an atypical sub-group of heterosexual trannies with more extroverted and addictive personalities, who are taking auto-erotic arousal to extreme lengths via sex change operations, but there doesn't seem to be much research on this.

    Common sense would suggest that if someone had a sex change operation primarily to satisfy their sexual arousal, they would be disappointed with the results, since when they lose their male hormones and genitalia they will have a lower level of sexual arousal and won't get very turned on by their post op body. However, without research this is all speculation.
  100. A lot of libertarians are gay and they are all gay-friendly. The gay libertarian billionaire Peter Thiel freely admitted once that this biggest enemies were women, because women are mostly all communitarian by nature. (Paraphrasing.)

  101. Speaking of libertarians, somebody should calculate their birthrates, at least, the famous ones. I think it is lower than that of famous feminists. And that’s pretty low. Why so childless?

  102. @Hard Line Realist

    Personally I don’t think cross dressers should be either encouraged or ridiculed.
     
    There's just no middle ground with you, is there?

    Basically I’m trying to say that I lean towards the Asian attitude to transsexuals and hard core cross dressers. Tolerate and acknowledge them in an informal sense but discourage them from obtaining legal status as females and undertaking gender re-assignment surgery.

    My previous comment was a bit didactic and long-winded, but I was trying to make the point that the majority of cross dressers aren’t hyper-sexed perverts. Obviously they get some sexual arousal from cross dressing, but the main thing that keeps them doing it is the stress relieving effects identified by Hans Eysenck back in the 1970s.

    Perhaps their is an atypical sub-group of heterosexual trannies with more extroverted and addictive personalities, who are taking auto-erotic arousal to extreme lengths via sex change operations, but there doesn’t seem to be much research on this.

    Common sense would suggest that if someone had a sex change operation primarily to satisfy their sexual arousal, they would be disappointed with the results, since when they lose their male hormones and genitalia they will have a lower level of sexual arousal and won’t get very turned on by their post op body. However, without research this is all speculation.

  103. WhatEvvs [AKA "Cookies"] says:

    “The insane desire for power, the madness of boundary violation, is the mark of necrophiliacs who sense the lack of soul/spirit/life-loving principle with themselves and therefore …..” and so on.

    Whenever I want to read up on my rad feminism, I come to right wing websites!!

    Nerve of Daily to denounce the madness of boundary violation – isn’t that what rad fem is all about?

  104. WhatEvvs [AKA "Cookies"] says:

    I spent 5 minutes of my life that I will want back someday scanning the Twitterverse reax to the Goldberg article. She is getting battered mercilessly. It’s not hard to see why: although she cannot “come out” and say so, she’s horrified by the transgender phenomenon, and can see how this will end very badly for women and for her beloved 2nd wave feminism.

    • Replies: @Hard Line Realist
    Perhaps the feminists should have consulted Pandora.

    Things have a habit of going in unintended directions.
  105. @WhatEvvs
    I spent 5 minutes of my life that I will want back someday scanning the Twitterverse reax to the Goldberg article. She is getting battered mercilessly. It's not hard to see why: although she cannot "come out" and say so, she's horrified by the transgender phenomenon, and can see how this will end very badly for women and for her beloved 2nd wave feminism.

    Perhaps the feminists should have consulted Pandora.

    Things have a habit of going in unintended directions.

  106. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    While I’m sympathetic to the idea that many of these trans women have a masculine sense of entitlement, thoroughly groomed by the culture, you do realize that hormone replacement therapy devastates testosterone levels, yes?

    Particularly given a natal female’s enhanced sensitivity to testosterone compared to males, those lesbians you refer to have many times the amount of testosterone as those “men in dresses,” many of whom have been on testosterone blockers for *years* with the intent of *no testosterone at all* for the purpose of seeing a more complete physical transformation. It’s common to brag about miniscule testosterone in mtf circles.

    The problem is not innate, the problem is socialized, and you don’t quite know what you’re on about. If there were any proof that masculinity is mostly socialization, this is it.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
The unspoken statistical reality of urban crime over the last quarter century.
Which superpower is more threatened by its “extractive elites”?
How a Young Syndicate Lawyer from Chicago Earned a Fortune Looting the Property of the Japanese-Americans, then Lived...
Becker update V1.3.2