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World War Hair Update: U.S. Authorities Seize 13 Tons of Weaves Harvested from Uighur Hair Slaves
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Uighur women have Good Hair

From CNBC:

U.S. authorities seize weaves suspected to be made of hair taken from people locked in Chinese internment camps
PUBLISHED THU, JUL 2 202012:34 AM
The Associated Press

Federal authorities in New York on Wednesday seized a shipment of weaves and other beauty accessories suspected to be made out of human hair taken from people locked inside a Chinese internment camp.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials told The Associated Press that 13 tons (11.8 metric tonnes) of hair products worth an estimated $800,000 were in the shipment….

Rushan Abbas, a Uighur American activist whose sister, a medical doctor, went missing in China almost two years ago and is believed to be locked in a detention camp, said women who use hair weaves should think about who might be making them.

“This is so heartbreaking for us,” she said. “I want people to think about the slavery people are experiencing today. My sister is sitting somewhere being forced to make what, hair pieces?”

… I & I’s weaves are sold under the Innocence brand to salons and individuals around the U.S.

Both of the exporters are in China’s far west Xinjiang region, where, over the past four years, the government has detained an estimated 1 million or more ethnic Turkic minorities.

The ethnic minorities are held in internment camps and prisons where they are subjected to ideological discipline, forced to denounce their religion and language and physically abused. China has long suspected the Uighurs, who are mostly Muslim, of harboring separatist tendencies because of their distinct culture, language and religion.

… It was unclear whether the factory was part of a detention center, but former detainees in other parts of Xinjiang have described being shuttled to work in fenced, guarded compounds during the day and taken back to internment camps at night.

This is all very sad.

But still … We need our weaves. I don’t wear it. But we need it.

 
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  1. Instead of snarking about Black women maybe you should read pulitzer prize winning columnists on how the right wing is destroying america through hatred and incompetence

    https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/leonard-pitts-jr/article243770527.html

    We have 1 last chance to save America..vote blue, take the White House & flip the senate. Then we can begin rebuilding what tRump has destroyed. But to quote the brilliant Elizabeth Warren…big problems require big structural change. We have one chance to go big or lose country

    We NEED to defeat the evil of white supremacy and defeat evil white men once and for all

    • Troll: Tsar Nicholas
    • Replies: @anon
    @Terry Cummings

    https://img1.etsystatic.com/114/0/5470846/il_fullxfull.883613227_by3u.jpg

    , @Johnny789
    @Terry Cummings

    Hey, I saw you play for DePaul vs. UCLA during the 81-82 season right after I moved to LA from Chicago. That's the only time I've ever been in Pauley Pavillon. It was disappointing because it seemed like a glorified HS Gym to my eye.

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe

    , @Coemgen
    @Terry Cummings

    https://youtu.be/nFArYx3Ay84

    , @Jake
    @Terry Cummings

    The best way to achieve those goals is to demand that blacks be granted their own American nation - 2 or 3 states in which all whites are removed and into which all blacks can move. That should be a new nation - call it Wakanda.

    The second best way to achieve your goals is to divide the states into at least 2 nations, one Blue and one Red.

    If blacks no longer have to live in a nation in which whites ruin everything for them with white racism then, and only then, can blacks shine.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Anonymous

  2. It all makes sense why blacks hate Trump now

    Tariffs threaten weave imports

  3. • Replies: @HammerJack
    @Dave Pinsen

    Endlessly smug, endlessly hypocritical, endlessly stupid. And the plan is to turn the country over to these people?

    , @Anon
    @Dave Pinsen

    I really doubt the Uyghur women are dead. If the Chinese are making serious bank off weave hair, then the Uyghur women are being kept alive and harvested like sheep for their wool.

    You don't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. The Chinese moneymen are too greedy for that. The tweet is still pretty good, though.

  4. If we really cared, we would obviously have to let all Uighurs (um…..WIG-urs? No? M’kay) immigrate because concentration camp/never again Elie Weiselhisname right? But we cant undermine China with the Uighurs if the are physically here do thats just tough for them I guess.

  5. Anonymous[188] • Disclaimer says:

    FWIW, “Rushan Abbas” is CIA:

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Anonymous

    Did she personally shove food up Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's ass? I sure hope so because he richly deserves it. A hot poker would have been even better.

    If she really did, this is a real plus mark in my book. Maybe she is a Muslim but she isn't a terrorist sympathizer like Barwick. Or maybe she was just present at the base in a completely unrelated capacity and Barwick is trying to tar her thru guilt by association?

    Replies: @Boy the way Glenn Miller played

  6. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Uiggha Please!

    • Replies: @moshe
    @Anonymous

    Wigger Lives Matter!

    ------

    That's a THREEfor!

    "Wig"er
    Uyghur
    Sean King

  7. Anonymous[231] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: Steve, an entirely new level of cucking was reached by the two gop senators bill swapping out clolumbus day for juneteenth.

    Are you f***ing kidding me?

    These two are both crypto poofters, right? Think it’s Ron Johnson and Lankford. WTF

    • Replies: @WJ
    @Anonymous

    I don't know much about Johnson but Lankford is a typical Churchian cuck. Muh Isrul, more immigration, backbite Trump, etc. Surprisingly, he voted against conviction on the impeachment debacle.

    , @Kolya Krassotkin
    @Anonymous

    When you wrote "crypto poofters," naturally I first assumed you were alluding to Lindsay Graham, until I remembered he ain't crypto.

  8. The CCP IS the Democratic Party

  9. So they’re not concentration camps, you’re not allowed to say they’re concentration camps, yes there are one or two things which Vassily Grossman would recognize but honestly those people cover their hair anyway.

  10. What’s the point? Weaves on a woman are 10x easier to spot than a toupee on a man.

  11. Thirteen tons and what do you get?
    Quite a bit balder but now don’t need a net.
    St. Peter done called me, but I can’t go.
    I left my soul in a Chinese rice bowl.

    dum, da-dum, da-dum da-dum…

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I shouldn't have LOL'd, but I had to!

  12. 13 tons of hair? Wow!

    “Many sources suggest that a full head of long hair weighs around an ounce or two (30–60 grams).” So, 13 tons of hair means between 200,000 and 300,000 of shorn Uighurs. Just in this one shipment.

  13. The Chinese have really stepped things up in Xinjiang over the last few years: it’s gone from just keeping a boot on the Uyghurs to long-term plans to ensure the Han will swamp them. Part of that is encouraging Han Chinese women to have more children, of course, and encourage more mass migration to said provinces. And part of that is “fixing” the problem of a minority that breeds too much.

    https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c

    The Chinese governmental bureaucracy is not shy at all about talking this privately in explicitly eugenic, racialist terms in a way that I can’t imagine in even the least PC of all white countries. Remind yourself of that the next time some woke corporate twerp lectures you about the fundamentally racist nature of the United States while hopping up on his hind legs the moment Beijing commands. I personally think that what the Chinese want to do within their own borders is their business, but they aren’t going to lecture me about this kind of crap.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @nebulafox

    Actually, I'm wrong about that: mass Han migration's been a policy for a long time in Xinjiang, though I still think the last five years of policy-the abandonment of the one-child policy-mark a shift.

    The same people who insist that mass protests during a pandemic were OK because "racism" simultaneously argue that arguments against letting this regime have control of drug manufacturing was "racism". With a straight face.

    That's the kind of person who we're supposed to trust as "experts".

    , @Che Blutarsky
    @nebulafox

    Just wait until they open up the US borders and China decides, hey, we've got 300 million extra we can ship there, and then we've got the biggest voting bloc, and hey, we take over peacefully! Do you think they'll have any patience for "troublesome" minorities?

    , @Anonymous
    @nebulafox


    The Chinese have really stepped things up in Xinjiang over the last few years: it’s gone from just keeping a boot on the Uyghurs to long-term plans to ensure the Han will swamp them.
     
    The Uighur proportion has increased over the last few years.

    Over the last 30 years, the Uighur population has quadrupled:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbxCoWHUMAAebxv?format=jpg

    Replies: @nebulafox

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @nebulafox


    Remind yourself of that the next time some woke corporate twerp lectures you about the fundamentally racist nature of the United States while hopping up on his hind legs the moment Beijing commands.
     
    Peking, damn it, Peking. Stick to English at iSteve.


    Or we'll force you to pronounce Běijīng. Which you probably can't.



    https://www.freestudy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Peking-University-Supports-Foreign-Student-with-Financial-Aid.png

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Gordo, @nebulafox, @australianbrainsize1325cchehe

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @nebulafox

    China sees what ethnic diversity looks like in the West and has decided against it.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Jack D, @Corvinus

  14. “they are subjected to ideological discipline, forced to denounce their religion and language and physically abused”

    I didn’t get a chance to read the entire article, but I’m glad someone is finally talking about what a hellhole America has become.

    • Thanks: sayless, Just another serf
    • LOL: Jack D
  15. I….wait….what?? So…the Uighur activist’s sister is not actually growing the hair but is sewing it on a weave and the sewing part is the Bad Slavery Part? I am so confused. I cannot tell which side is The Only Correct Side To Be On here.

    Thank you Steve for all you do.

  16. said women who use hair weaves should think about who might be making them.

    Would American blacks ever acknowledge that there are people in the world who are more oppressed than they are? I don’t think so. They dare not lose that First, Last, and Only Oppressed People status. It’s their equity.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Harry Baldwin

    Would American blacks ever acknowledge that there are people in the world who are more oppressed than they are? I don’t think so.

    They learned that "most oppressed people evah" from (((someone))) or other. No idea who...er...whom....eh, whatever.

    Replies: @Lockean Proviso, @Reg Cæsar

    , @Jane Plain
    @Harry Baldwin

    I'm not sure they know anyone else exists, except the Evil White Devil.

    , @Dacian Julien Soros
    @Harry Baldwin

    You don't know squat about whether covid is going up or down, if masks help, or if it survives on objects, if US is in deflation or acceleration, if Trump and Biden are mentally ok, but, by all means, please don't stop demonizing China, using "information".

    For example, did you know that the Wuhan flu comes from Wuhan, China? This alone exonerates America's government.

    Replies: @ic1000

    , @Pericles
    @Harry Baldwin

    The weave must flow!

  17. @nebulafox
    The Chinese have really stepped things up in Xinjiang over the last few years: it's gone from just keeping a boot on the Uyghurs to long-term plans to ensure the Han will swamp them. Part of that is encouraging Han Chinese women to have more children, of course, and encourage more mass migration to said provinces. And part of that is "fixing" the problem of a minority that breeds too much.

    https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c

    The Chinese governmental bureaucracy is not shy at all about talking this privately in explicitly eugenic, racialist terms in a way that I can't imagine in even the least PC of all white countries. Remind yourself of that the next time some woke corporate twerp lectures you about the fundamentally racist nature of the United States while hopping up on his hind legs the moment Beijing commands. I personally think that what the Chinese want to do within their own borders is their business, but they aren't going to lecture me about this kind of crap.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Che Blutarsky, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Dave Pinsen

    Actually, I’m wrong about that: mass Han migration’s been a policy for a long time in Xinjiang, though I still think the last five years of policy-the abandonment of the one-child policy-mark a shift.

    The same people who insist that mass protests during a pandemic were OK because “racism” simultaneously argue that arguments against letting this regime have control of drug manufacturing was “racism”. With a straight face.

    That’s the kind of person who we’re supposed to trust as “experts”.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  18. @nebulafox
    The Chinese have really stepped things up in Xinjiang over the last few years: it's gone from just keeping a boot on the Uyghurs to long-term plans to ensure the Han will swamp them. Part of that is encouraging Han Chinese women to have more children, of course, and encourage more mass migration to said provinces. And part of that is "fixing" the problem of a minority that breeds too much.

    https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c

    The Chinese governmental bureaucracy is not shy at all about talking this privately in explicitly eugenic, racialist terms in a way that I can't imagine in even the least PC of all white countries. Remind yourself of that the next time some woke corporate twerp lectures you about the fundamentally racist nature of the United States while hopping up on his hind legs the moment Beijing commands. I personally think that what the Chinese want to do within their own borders is their business, but they aren't going to lecture me about this kind of crap.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Che Blutarsky, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Dave Pinsen

    Just wait until they open up the US borders and China decides, hey, we’ve got 300 million extra we can ship there, and then we’ve got the biggest voting bloc, and hey, we take over peacefully! Do you think they’ll have any patience for “troublesome” minorities?

  19. The Uyghur sterilization tall tale is just some recycled Tibetan sterilization BS in reaction to the National Security Law, nothing new. In fact, the Uyghur population doubled in the Uyghur areas over the past 40 years, and the proportion of the Uyghur population in the Uyghur ares also increased.

    https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277660796525465607

    As for the hair, how do you know it’s from Uyghurs? Is there any genetic test for that? Otherwise, it’s just all BS like the sterilization fairy tale. There are 6-7 billion women in China, any of them could sell hers voluntarily for a small fortune, just like women in the rest of the world.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @last straw


    There are 6-7 billion women in China, any of them could sell hers voluntarily for a small fortune, ...
     
    That'd be 600-700 million, still a lot, but they are not mostly poor peasants anymore so they would not get any "small fortune" for selling their hair. It's also not like shearing a sheep - you can't do it yearly - you know that, right?
    , @Jack D
    @last straw

    Can't both be true? Uigher population growing too fast so CCP decides to do something about it?

    I think the allegation is that these weaves were processed using Uigher prison camp labor, not that they were necessarily shorn from the prisoners themselves.

    Replies: @d dan

  20. @Harry Baldwin
    said women who use hair weaves should think about who might be making them.

    Would American blacks ever acknowledge that there are people in the world who are more oppressed than they are? I don't think so. They dare not lose that First, Last, and Only Oppressed People status. It's their equity.

    Replies: @anon, @Jane Plain, @Dacian Julien Soros, @Pericles

    Would American blacks ever acknowledge that there are people in the world who are more oppressed than they are? I don’t think so.

    They learned that “most oppressed people evah” from (((someone))) or other. No idea who…er…whom….eh, whatever.

    • Replies: @Lockean Proviso
    @anon

    There was only one Holocaust ™ and one Slavery ® !
    Accept no imitations, but always accept recriminations, limitations, and making reparations.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @anon


    They learned that “most oppressed people evah” from (((someone))) or other. No idea who…er…whom….eh, whatever.
     
    Other than that they really hate Yankees, and blame them for everything wrong in the world. Where have we seen that before?
  21. @Harry Baldwin
    said women who use hair weaves should think about who might be making them.

    Would American blacks ever acknowledge that there are people in the world who are more oppressed than they are? I don't think so. They dare not lose that First, Last, and Only Oppressed People status. It's their equity.

    Replies: @anon, @Jane Plain, @Dacian Julien Soros, @Pericles

    I’m not sure they know anyone else exists, except the Evil White Devil.

  22. May I recommend for your viewing pleasure “Good Hair,” a documentary by Chris Rock? This hilarious program illustrates the measures Nigresses will go through and the exorbitant amounts they will pay to get weaves and other products to have long, luxurious hair. I swear my mother could have made a fortune if she had continued to knot macrame.

    The documentary features scenes of bald headed women in India and China who had sold their hair. It look like a cult devoted to the teachings of Sinead O’Connor. Meanwhile, Rock went around to wig shops trying to sell a bag full of African hair. One Chinese man told him, while forming a bouncing arc over his head with his hands, “No one want. No one want poofy.”

    • Replies: @Just another serf
    @Cowtown Rebel

    Allows us to reconsider the German activities during the war. All the hair we are told was shorn from the heads of Jewish detainees, was actually intended for use as donated weaves to poor African-American women throughout the world. The hostile white allies were determined to stop this act of kindness.

    History is interesting stuff.

  23. @Dave Pinsen
    https://twitter.com/CityBureaucrat/status/1278386329328459782?s=20

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Anon

    Endlessly smug, endlessly hypocritical, endlessly stupid. And the plan is to turn the country over to these people?

    • Agree: bomag
  24. @Harry Baldwin
    said women who use hair weaves should think about who might be making them.

    Would American blacks ever acknowledge that there are people in the world who are more oppressed than they are? I don't think so. They dare not lose that First, Last, and Only Oppressed People status. It's their equity.

    Replies: @anon, @Jane Plain, @Dacian Julien Soros, @Pericles

    You don’t know squat about whether covid is going up or down, if masks help, or if it survives on objects, if US is in deflation or acceleration, if Trump and Biden are mentally ok, but, by all means, please don’t stop demonizing China, using “information”.

    For example, did you know that the Wuhan flu comes from Wuhan, China? This alone exonerates America’s government.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    > For example, did you know that the Wuhan flu comes from Wuhan, China? This alone exonerates America’s government.

    Good point, even without the [sarc] tag! Whatabout that new strain?

    If Dr. Zheng-Li Shi of the Wuhan Institute of Virology hadn't created coronavirus chimeras and undertaken gain-of-function experiments in a laboratory with faulty safety procedures, you would have had to come up with some other way to foil commenter Harry Baldwin.

    I'm sure you'd be up to it.

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros

  25. But still … We need our weaves. I don’t wear it. But we need it.

    I’m glad you’re candid about your hair. But there’s one question that I’d like to ask…

  26. Anonymous[216] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox
    The Chinese have really stepped things up in Xinjiang over the last few years: it's gone from just keeping a boot on the Uyghurs to long-term plans to ensure the Han will swamp them. Part of that is encouraging Han Chinese women to have more children, of course, and encourage more mass migration to said provinces. And part of that is "fixing" the problem of a minority that breeds too much.

    https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c

    The Chinese governmental bureaucracy is not shy at all about talking this privately in explicitly eugenic, racialist terms in a way that I can't imagine in even the least PC of all white countries. Remind yourself of that the next time some woke corporate twerp lectures you about the fundamentally racist nature of the United States while hopping up on his hind legs the moment Beijing commands. I personally think that what the Chinese want to do within their own borders is their business, but they aren't going to lecture me about this kind of crap.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Che Blutarsky, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Dave Pinsen

    The Chinese have really stepped things up in Xinjiang over the last few years: it’s gone from just keeping a boot on the Uyghurs to long-term plans to ensure the Han will swamp them.

    The Uighur proportion has increased over the last few years.

    Over the last 30 years, the Uighur population has quadrupled:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbxCoWHUMAAebxv?format=jpg

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Anonymous

    I never said they were being irrational, and I stated above, the US has far too many domestic problems to be concerned with the affairs of others. I only care about China's actions insofar as they impact the US, and Xinjiang doesn't.

    But if you believe the US is some horribly racist, oppressive place to minorities on global standards, you either live in a bubble or are a bald-faced liar.

  27. If fair-trade hair a thing?

    Instead of blood diamonds, there is blood hair.

  28. I remember reading in the Wall Street Journal, years ago, about some temple in India where women would come by the thousands to shave their traditionally long hair as an offering, and how that became a source for the weave industry.

    But googling does show us more pictures like the one Mr. Sailer posted. Uighur women do have markedly long and straight hair. It seems to be a thing. Learn something new on iSteve every day.

    https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2d6c9b34994cef67cd6b7d48c78632a2

  29. Since I’m commenting on Steve’s blog, I won’t request it be called the “NJT Rule of Geopolitics,” but it sure seems to me a fixed rule that the further inland you get in the Eurasian land mass, the more brutal things become.

  30. Uighurs uobble, but they don’t fall down.

  31. Lin says:

    Lets do some math:
    https://hypertextbook.com/facts/1999/BrianLey.shtml
    average diameter of human hair: 70 x 10(exp-6) metre (overstated because I think finer fairs are actually preferred for commercial products)
    The average person has 100,000 hairs
    https://www.hairbro.com/blogs/guide-and-tips-ordering-attachment-removal/hair-density
    So the volume of 100,000 hairs of length of 15 cm
    (https://www.healthline.com/health/beauty-skin-care/grow-hair-faster)
    = 0.15 x (pi/4) x sq[70 x 10(exp-6)] cubic metre
    =0.0000577 cubic meter
    If one assumes density of hair = 1 ton/meter
    and it takes a year for a person to grow 15 cm or 6 inches of hair(and assuming that person had a clean shave every yr and hair cut forbidden for another year )
    0.0000577 cubic meter means the hair mass of 17,300 person grown in a year.
    11.8 ton of hair means 204,000 (female)are into hair manufacturing industry and many of them would look bald and many would look very hairy.
    ………
    My conclusion: Its just a ps of fabricated propaganda

  32. @nebulafox
    The Chinese have really stepped things up in Xinjiang over the last few years: it's gone from just keeping a boot on the Uyghurs to long-term plans to ensure the Han will swamp them. Part of that is encouraging Han Chinese women to have more children, of course, and encourage more mass migration to said provinces. And part of that is "fixing" the problem of a minority that breeds too much.

    https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c

    The Chinese governmental bureaucracy is not shy at all about talking this privately in explicitly eugenic, racialist terms in a way that I can't imagine in even the least PC of all white countries. Remind yourself of that the next time some woke corporate twerp lectures you about the fundamentally racist nature of the United States while hopping up on his hind legs the moment Beijing commands. I personally think that what the Chinese want to do within their own borders is their business, but they aren't going to lecture me about this kind of crap.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Che Blutarsky, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Dave Pinsen

    Remind yourself of that the next time some woke corporate twerp lectures you about the fundamentally racist nature of the United States while hopping up on his hind legs the moment Beijing commands.

    Peking, damn it, Peking. Stick to English at iSteve.

    Or we’ll force you to pronounce Běijīng. Which you probably can’t.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Reg Cæsar

    It is still Peking, in most languages, Western or Eastern.

    https://i.imgur.com/KsUXp9Y.jpg

    , @Gordo
    @Reg Cæsar


    Peking, damn it, Peking. Stick to English at iSteve.
     
    Totally with you Reg, we don't go about saying Moskva or Paree.
    , @nebulafox
    @Reg Cæsar

    >Or we’ll force you to pronounce Běijīng. Which you probably can’t.

    外表能欺骗...

    , @australianbrainsize1325cchehe
    @Reg Cæsar

    Did some northern chinese guy guy kick your ass when you were in china, I think you and stupid achman both had your asses handed to you by chinese guy for bad behaviour.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Reg Cæsar

  33. Words fail me … The horror … Prisoners forced to get pixie cuts.

    Is the International Court of Justice asleep at the wheel?

  34. Anonymous[303] • Disclaimer says:

    Better call Munire with the good hair

  35. Comes the revolution, the song title “Sister Golden Hair” will be canceled. Or maybe it already is.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @PiltdownMan


    Comes the revolution, the song title “Sister Golden Hair” will be canceled. Or maybe it already is.
     
    Well, the band's name is controversial...
  36. @Reg Cæsar
    @nebulafox


    Remind yourself of that the next time some woke corporate twerp lectures you about the fundamentally racist nature of the United States while hopping up on his hind legs the moment Beijing commands.
     
    Peking, damn it, Peking. Stick to English at iSteve.


    Or we'll force you to pronounce Běijīng. Which you probably can't.



    https://www.freestudy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Peking-University-Supports-Foreign-Student-with-Financial-Aid.png

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Gordo, @nebulafox, @australianbrainsize1325cchehe

    It is still Peking, in most languages, Western or Eastern.

  37. @Harry Baldwin
    said women who use hair weaves should think about who might be making them.

    Would American blacks ever acknowledge that there are people in the world who are more oppressed than they are? I don't think so. They dare not lose that First, Last, and Only Oppressed People status. It's their equity.

    Replies: @anon, @Jane Plain, @Dacian Julien Soros, @Pericles

    The weave must flow!

  38. Anon[273] • Disclaimer says:

    22 western countries criticised China for her treatment of the Uighurs. China repeatedly invited them to visit Xinjiang for fact finding missions. None accepted but they continued to criticise anyway.

    50 countries, including dozens of Muslim countries, visited Xinjiang and all came back with full praise of China. Their ambassadors rejected the accusations and lodged an objection at the UN human rights commission, stating that they disagreed with the 22 western countries.

    Could anyone explain why we should trust the 22 western countries?

    • Troll: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Anon


    Could anyone explain why we should trust the 22 western countries a guy on the internet named Anon[273] ?
     
    FIFY.
    , @Yngvar
    @Anon

    Got any source for this Anon[273]? You know it would be a kind courtesy to include one when you make absurd statements like that.

  39. @PiltdownMan
    Comes the revolution, the song title "Sister Golden Hair" will be canceled. Or maybe it already is.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Comes the revolution, the song title “Sister Golden Hair” will be canceled. Or maybe it already is.

    Well, the band’s name is controversial…

  40. “ Uighur women have Good Hair”

    Indeed.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Lot

    You stoll my joke...


    Wigger hair slave...

    http://balidreadlocks-studio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/BD3.jpeg

    Replies: @Lot

  41. …Women who use hair weaves should think about who might be making them.

    Well. Growing them.

  42. Anon[347] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    https://twitter.com/CityBureaucrat/status/1278386329328459782?s=20

    Replies: @HammerJack, @Anon

    I really doubt the Uyghur women are dead. If the Chinese are making serious bank off weave hair, then the Uyghur women are being kept alive and harvested like sheep for their wool.

    You don’t kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. The Chinese moneymen are too greedy for that. The tweet is still pretty good, though.

  43. @Reg Cæsar
    @nebulafox


    Remind yourself of that the next time some woke corporate twerp lectures you about the fundamentally racist nature of the United States while hopping up on his hind legs the moment Beijing commands.
     
    Peking, damn it, Peking. Stick to English at iSteve.


    Or we'll force you to pronounce Běijīng. Which you probably can't.



    https://www.freestudy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Peking-University-Supports-Foreign-Student-with-Financial-Aid.png

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Gordo, @nebulafox, @australianbrainsize1325cchehe

    Peking, damn it, Peking. Stick to English at iSteve.

    Totally with you Reg, we don’t go about saying Moskva or Paree.

  44. Anon[347] • Disclaimer says:

    Black women are keen on weaves because the most common method of straightening the hair, using a hot iron, tends to damage it and make it break. After a few treatments, black women look pretty bad. Hence weaves. However, you can’t wash your scalp properly with a weave in, so it tends to get nasty.

    I’m sure this is more information that Steve really cares to learn.

    • Replies: @Lockean Proviso
    @Anon

    I like it when women just look healthy and natural for their race and ethnicity. I prefer the look of a neatly trimmed, clean Afro on a black female over fake hair or cornrows. I do appreciate dreadlocks because they indicate to watch out for either criminal activity or histrionics. If a black gal takes more time exercising her body so that she's fit and not obese instead spending that time on her hair, she's going to look her best.

  45. @Reg Cæsar
    @nebulafox


    Remind yourself of that the next time some woke corporate twerp lectures you about the fundamentally racist nature of the United States while hopping up on his hind legs the moment Beijing commands.
     
    Peking, damn it, Peking. Stick to English at iSteve.


    Or we'll force you to pronounce Běijīng. Which you probably can't.



    https://www.freestudy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Peking-University-Supports-Foreign-Student-with-Financial-Aid.png

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Gordo, @nebulafox, @australianbrainsize1325cchehe

    >Or we’ll force you to pronounce Běijīng. Which you probably can’t.

    外表能欺骗…

  46. @Anonymous
    @nebulafox


    The Chinese have really stepped things up in Xinjiang over the last few years: it’s gone from just keeping a boot on the Uyghurs to long-term plans to ensure the Han will swamp them.
     
    The Uighur proportion has increased over the last few years.

    Over the last 30 years, the Uighur population has quadrupled:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbxCoWHUMAAebxv?format=jpg

    Replies: @nebulafox

    I never said they were being irrational, and I stated above, the US has far too many domestic problems to be concerned with the affairs of others. I only care about China’s actions insofar as they impact the US, and Xinjiang doesn’t.

    But if you believe the US is some horribly racist, oppressive place to minorities on global standards, you either live in a bubble or are a bald-faced liar.

  47. @Terry Cummings
    Instead of snarking about Black women maybe you should read pulitzer prize winning columnists on how the right wing is destroying america through hatred and incompetence

    https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/leonard-pitts-jr/article243770527.html

    We have 1 last chance to save America..vote blue, take the White House & flip the senate. Then we can begin rebuilding what tRump has destroyed. But to quote the brilliant Elizabeth Warren...big problems require big structural change. We have one chance to go big or lose country

    We NEED to defeat the evil of white supremacy and defeat evil white men once and for all

    Replies: @anon, @Johnny789, @Coemgen, @Jake

  48. That is an insane amount probably 100 lb / powe
    per girl per month. Not tenable.

  49. @Anonymous
    Uiggha Please!

    Replies: @moshe

    Wigger Lives Matter!

    ——

    That’s a THREEfor!

    “Wig”er
    Uyghur
    Sean King

  50. @Terry Cummings
    Instead of snarking about Black women maybe you should read pulitzer prize winning columnists on how the right wing is destroying america through hatred and incompetence

    https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/leonard-pitts-jr/article243770527.html

    We have 1 last chance to save America..vote blue, take the White House & flip the senate. Then we can begin rebuilding what tRump has destroyed. But to quote the brilliant Elizabeth Warren...big problems require big structural change. We have one chance to go big or lose country

    We NEED to defeat the evil of white supremacy and defeat evil white men once and for all

    Replies: @anon, @Johnny789, @Coemgen, @Jake

    Hey, I saw you play for DePaul vs. UCLA during the 81-82 season right after I moved to LA from Chicago. That’s the only time I’ve ever been in Pauley Pavillon. It was disappointing because it seemed like a glorified HS Gym to my eye.

    • Replies: @Paul Jolliffe
    @Johnny789

    I saw Terry Cummings, Mark Aguirre and Teddy Grubbs from #1 DePaul lose to St. Joe’s (Philly) in Dayton in the 1981 NCAA tourney opener at the buzzer because they didn’t sprint back on defense after a missed free throw!

    (I was an 19 year old in the IU pep band - we were the second game of the day - IU 99, Maryland 64)

    https://sjuhawks.com/news/2013/3/21/208726038.aspx

    Replies: @Johnny789

  51. @nebulafox
    The Chinese have really stepped things up in Xinjiang over the last few years: it's gone from just keeping a boot on the Uyghurs to long-term plans to ensure the Han will swamp them. Part of that is encouraging Han Chinese women to have more children, of course, and encourage more mass migration to said provinces. And part of that is "fixing" the problem of a minority that breeds too much.

    https://apnews.com/269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c

    The Chinese governmental bureaucracy is not shy at all about talking this privately in explicitly eugenic, racialist terms in a way that I can't imagine in even the least PC of all white countries. Remind yourself of that the next time some woke corporate twerp lectures you about the fundamentally racist nature of the United States while hopping up on his hind legs the moment Beijing commands. I personally think that what the Chinese want to do within their own borders is their business, but they aren't going to lecture me about this kind of crap.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Che Blutarsky, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Dave Pinsen

    China sees what ethnic diversity looks like in the West and has decided against it.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Dave Pinsen

    I feel like many Americans really don't seem to grasp how, over the last two decades, the US has turned from a country that everybody wanted to imitate to a nation that seems fundamentally broken. Makes me sad to say it, but I can't deny reality.

    A strong distaste for what the Chinese call "baizuo" certainly isn't hard to find on the Chinese web, but China has had its minorities for a while. It's worth bearing in mind that there are other minorities in China-Koreans in the Northeast, Zhuang down south in Guangxi-that are mostly left alone. But the Chinese government doesn't have to really worry, most of them speak fluent Mandarin and are often likely to marry ethnic Han, with the resulting kids looking and sounding Chinese.

    It is interesting to note that despite being portrayed as far more neo-fascist than Xi Jinping in the US media, Vladimir Putin has chosen the opposite route of the ChiComs. Despite Russia being more multi-ethnic than China and his own deeply felt Russian nationalism, he does not tolerate the kind of skinhead, hardcore racial Russian ethno-nationalism associated with their version of the hard right (they get regularly locked up) and has even allowed mass Central Asian immigration to do construction jobs. That this has nothing at all in common with Western notions of political correctness and multiculturalism should be obvious, but, nevertheless, the two countries do handle their minority questions quite differently. And the reality is probably disappointing to the alt-right and left-wingers alike.

    Replies: @Jake, @Anonymous, @Anonymous

    , @Jack D
    @Dave Pinsen

    The Chinese have had ethnic minorities inside their empire forever. What is new is the zeal of the CCP to permanently repress the Uighers once and for all.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    , @Corvinus
    @Dave Pinsen

    "China sees what ethnic diversity looks like in the West and has decided against it."

    You do realize that Chinese that Chinese does have many ethnic groups, right? Zhuang (16.9 million), Hui (10.5 million), Manchu (10.3 million), Uyghur (10 million), Miao (9.4 million), Yi (8.7 million), Tujia (8.3 million), Tibetan (6.2 million), Mongol (5.9 million), Dong (2.8 million), Buyei (2.8 million), Yao (2.7 million), Bai (1.9 million), Korean (1.8 million), Hani (1.6 million), Li (1.4 million), Kazakh (1.4 million) and Dai (1.2 million).

    And, of course they fought for centuries to remain isolated from the rest of the world. It's not a recent phenomenon. Europeans, on the other hand, had long championed diversity--by way of marriage of powerful nobles from different nations. With the birth of the Thirteen Colonies, there developed a "mutt mentality", e.g. a farmer of English stock marrying a woman who was Dutch, an Irish lass being hitched to a German factory worker.

    It's who we are.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Reg Cæsar

  52. China sees what ethnic diversity looks like in the West and has decided against it.

    While continuing to promote it in the West, knowing its weakening effect.

  53. @last straw
    The Uyghur sterilization tall tale is just some recycled Tibetan sterilization BS in reaction to the National Security Law, nothing new. In fact, the Uyghur population doubled in the Uyghur areas over the past 40 years, and the proportion of the Uyghur population in the Uyghur ares also increased.

    https://twitter.com/SpokespersonCHN/status/1277993782508576768

    https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277660796525465607

    As for the hair, how do you know it's from Uyghurs? Is there any genetic test for that? Otherwise, it's just all BS like the sterilization fairy tale. There are 6-7 billion women in China, any of them could sell hers voluntarily for a small fortune, just like women in the rest of the world.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Jack D

    There are 6-7 billion women in China, any of them could sell hers voluntarily for a small fortune, …

    That’d be 600-700 million, still a lot, but they are not mostly poor peasants anymore so they would not get any “small fortune” for selling their hair. It’s also not like shearing a sheep – you can’t do it yearly – you know that, right?

  54. “… suspected to be made out of human hair taken from people locked inside a Chinese internment camp. U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials told The Associated Press that 13 tons (11.8 metric tonnes) of hair products worth an estimated $800,000 were in the shipment….”

    Regurgitating CNBC (and other main stream media) without much critical thinking is a sign of early dementia. Just ask yourself a few simple questions from just the above two sentence fragments:

    1. How does U.S. Customs knows the origin of the products? Does it even worth an investigation for $800,000 of harmless products from a remote location out of trillions of imported goods?
    2. Why did Chinese company want to ship the products to US, when there are > 100 countries that would accept these products without question, even if they were from the “internment camp?”
    3. Why would Chinese harvest the hair from Uighur when they already have 1.4 billions others that they can legitimately harvest from?

    Yes, drama, blaming China and self-righteousness are good ways to distract from one’s own problems.

    “A lie told once remains a lie but a lie told 1000 times becomes the truth.” – by Joseph Goebbels

    Maybe if they repeat this story another 998 times, they would become “true?”

  55. @Anon
    22 western countries criticised China for her treatment of the Uighurs. China repeatedly invited them to visit Xinjiang for fact finding missions. None accepted but they continued to criticise anyway.

    50 countries, including dozens of Muslim countries, visited Xinjiang and all came back with full praise of China. Their ambassadors rejected the accusations and lodged an objection at the UN human rights commission, stating that they disagreed with the 22 western countries.

    Could anyone explain why we should trust the 22 western countries?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Yngvar

    Could anyone explain why we should trust the 22 western countries a guy on the internet named Anon[273] ?

    FIFY.

  56. @Dave Pinsen
    @nebulafox

    China sees what ethnic diversity looks like in the West and has decided against it.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Jack D, @Corvinus

    I feel like many Americans really don’t seem to grasp how, over the last two decades, the US has turned from a country that everybody wanted to imitate to a nation that seems fundamentally broken. Makes me sad to say it, but I can’t deny reality.

    A strong distaste for what the Chinese call “baizuo” certainly isn’t hard to find on the Chinese web, but China has had its minorities for a while. It’s worth bearing in mind that there are other minorities in China-Koreans in the Northeast, Zhuang down south in Guangxi-that are mostly left alone. But the Chinese government doesn’t have to really worry, most of them speak fluent Mandarin and are often likely to marry ethnic Han, with the resulting kids looking and sounding Chinese.

    It is interesting to note that despite being portrayed as far more neo-fascist than Xi Jinping in the US media, Vladimir Putin has chosen the opposite route of the ChiComs. Despite Russia being more multi-ethnic than China and his own deeply felt Russian nationalism, he does not tolerate the kind of skinhead, hardcore racial Russian ethno-nationalism associated with their version of the hard right (they get regularly locked up) and has even allowed mass Central Asian immigration to do construction jobs. That this has nothing at all in common with Western notions of political correctness and multiculturalism should be obvious, but, nevertheless, the two countries do handle their minority questions quite differently. And the reality is probably disappointing to the alt-right and left-wingers alike.

    • Thanks: ic1000
    • Replies: @Jake
    @nebulafox

    Your take on Putin and Russia is correct. Also correct is your assessment that what Russia is doing in terms of non-Russian ethnic groups is something that most alt-right leaders cannot be happy about. What Putin is doing does, however, fit with what a nation would do if it wished to act as if Christendom can be revived.

    Both the Communist Chinese and the Anglo-Zionist Empire reject what Putin is doing.

    , @Anonymous
    @nebulafox

    Russia and China seem to deal with the ethnic minority issue by encouraging racial and cultural assimilation to the majority identity, and in the case of Uyghurs arguably by quite forcible and frankly genocidal means. They also tend to give minorities no special rights or recognition, in fact they make it so identifying with the majority carries the most rights.

    I can't imagine this is very palatable to right wingers who believe in racial/cultural purity or leftists who believe in diversity, multiculturalism and the rights of minorities.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    , @Anonymous
    @nebulafox


    It’s worth bearing in mind that there are other minorities in China-Koreans in the Northeast, Zhuang down south in Guangxi-that are mostly left alone.
     
    There are Uighurs in major cities all over China, Uighur celebrities in mainstream China, prominent Uighurs in the communist party and government.

    The US Deep State weaponized the Uighurs and particularly their Muslim religion to foment terror and rebellion against the Chinese state, like it did with Muslim groups along the periphery of the Soviet empire during the Cold War. Because of both mainstream US media and internal Chinese censorship and propaganda, you don't hear much about this insurrection and terror campaign.

    China could have taken the US approach to Muslim terrorism by invading militarily and destroying local administration, governance, and public infrastructure, allowing hundreds of thousands and even millions dying in the process and ensuing chaos. They decided to take the police state and internment approach instead.

    Replies: @Jane Plain, @nebulafox

  57. @anon
    @Harry Baldwin

    Would American blacks ever acknowledge that there are people in the world who are more oppressed than they are? I don’t think so.

    They learned that "most oppressed people evah" from (((someone))) or other. No idea who...er...whom....eh, whatever.

    Replies: @Lockean Proviso, @Reg Cæsar

    There was only one Holocaust ™ and one Slavery ® !
    Accept no imitations, but always accept recriminations, limitations, and making reparations.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Lockean Proviso

    Watch out you don't get sued for royalties or copyright infringement for using those terms.

    See you in re-edumacation camp. I'll be the guy who Buzzed his head so they can't sell his rare, valuable, endangered blond hair.

  58. @Anon
    Black women are keen on weaves because the most common method of straightening the hair, using a hot iron, tends to damage it and make it break. After a few treatments, black women look pretty bad. Hence weaves. However, you can't wash your scalp properly with a weave in, so it tends to get nasty.

    I'm sure this is more information that Steve really cares to learn.

    Replies: @Lockean Proviso

    I like it when women just look healthy and natural for their race and ethnicity. I prefer the look of a neatly trimmed, clean Afro on a black female over fake hair or cornrows. I do appreciate dreadlocks because they indicate to watch out for either criminal activity or histrionics. If a black gal takes more time exercising her body so that she’s fit and not obese instead spending that time on her hair, she’s going to look her best.

  59. @Terry Cummings
    Instead of snarking about Black women maybe you should read pulitzer prize winning columnists on how the right wing is destroying america through hatred and incompetence

    https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/leonard-pitts-jr/article243770527.html

    We have 1 last chance to save America..vote blue, take the White House & flip the senate. Then we can begin rebuilding what tRump has destroyed. But to quote the brilliant Elizabeth Warren...big problems require big structural change. We have one chance to go big or lose country

    We NEED to defeat the evil of white supremacy and defeat evil white men once and for all

    Replies: @anon, @Johnny789, @Coemgen, @Jake

  60. From an article in the latest issue of The Economist on Uighur forced labor in camps and at factories outside Xinjiang:

    “American groups representing apparel
    and tech firms say they are trying to do
    more, but have limited leverage in their
    dealings with China’s government. However, they appear reluctant to use whatever
    clout they have, or even to say publicly
    what specific action they are taking. Xin-
    jiang grows more than 80% of China’s cot-
    ton, and about 20% of the world’s. China is
    also a manufacturing hub and large market
    for most of the world’s biggest consumer
    brands. Companies are terrified to cross
    China’s ruling party in public. Corporate
    lobbyists argue that firms need America
    and the European Union to work with them
    to push it to change its behaviour.
    with Mr Trump reluctant to impose
    sanctions, hawks in Congress have taken
    the lead. ”

    Will the focus on slavery in cotton-growing regions here 160 years ago overshadow slavery in Chinese cotton regions in our time? BLM and the woke left dislike historic America (and delude themselves that CCP hegemony will be better for them) so much that their fabrications of racist persecution here enable real Chinese oppression there. When Trump (and the Fortune 500) isn’t buddying up with Xi and the rare criticism is made, then they easily say “Yes, but what about your Negros?” The agitprop has already been done for them.

  61. @Achmed E. Newman
    Thirteen tons and what do you get?
    Quite a bit balder but now don't need a net.
    St. Peter done called me, but I can't go.
    I left my soul in a Chinese rice bowl.


    dum, da-dum, da-dum da-dum...

    Replies: @Redneck farmer

    I shouldn’t have LOL’d, but I had to!

  62. Horse thievery makes me think of lynching.

  63. Aren’t you glad our leaders in business and government gave themselves carte blanche to do business with China as if it were virtually part of our country?

    “Imagine there’s no countries,” because there aren’t any, and you don’t have one.

    It’s enough to make your hair stand on end.

  64. @Lockean Proviso
    @anon

    There was only one Holocaust ™ and one Slavery ® !
    Accept no imitations, but always accept recriminations, limitations, and making reparations.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    Watch out you don’t get sued for royalties or copyright infringement for using those terms.

    See you in re-edumacation camp. I’ll be the guy who Buzzed his head so they can’t sell his rare, valuable, endangered blond hair.

  65. It is racist to suggest that the female Numinous Negro, the replacement of the Virgin Mary, might unknowingly make use of something deriving from slave labor.

  66. @Dacian Julien Soros
    @Harry Baldwin

    You don't know squat about whether covid is going up or down, if masks help, or if it survives on objects, if US is in deflation or acceleration, if Trump and Biden are mentally ok, but, by all means, please don't stop demonizing China, using "information".

    For example, did you know that the Wuhan flu comes from Wuhan, China? This alone exonerates America's government.

    Replies: @ic1000

    > For example, did you know that the Wuhan flu comes from Wuhan, China? This alone exonerates America’s government.

    Good point, even without the [sarc] tag! Whatabout that new strain?

    If Dr. Zheng-Li Shi of the Wuhan Institute of Virology hadn’t created coronavirus chimeras and undertaken gain-of-function experiments in a laboratory with faulty safety procedures, you would have had to come up with some other way to foil commenter Harry Baldwin.

    I’m sure you’d be up to it.

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
    @ic1000

    Sorry, I was meant to ridicule nebulafox and his all-knowing "The Chinese have really stepped things up in Xinjiang over the last few years". I should have my coffee before commenting next time.

    We struggle to hear about what ACTUALLY happens in New York, London, or Paris; but somehow he thinks he knows anything about Xinjiang.At least, you get to hear about the New York / London / Paris no-go areas from some heteordox or samizdat twitter user. But everything you know about China comes from people motivated to lie about it. Clintons, Trumps, Fox, CNN, and even CCP have something to lie about re. China.

  67. @nebulafox
    @Dave Pinsen

    I feel like many Americans really don't seem to grasp how, over the last two decades, the US has turned from a country that everybody wanted to imitate to a nation that seems fundamentally broken. Makes me sad to say it, but I can't deny reality.

    A strong distaste for what the Chinese call "baizuo" certainly isn't hard to find on the Chinese web, but China has had its minorities for a while. It's worth bearing in mind that there are other minorities in China-Koreans in the Northeast, Zhuang down south in Guangxi-that are mostly left alone. But the Chinese government doesn't have to really worry, most of them speak fluent Mandarin and are often likely to marry ethnic Han, with the resulting kids looking and sounding Chinese.

    It is interesting to note that despite being portrayed as far more neo-fascist than Xi Jinping in the US media, Vladimir Putin has chosen the opposite route of the ChiComs. Despite Russia being more multi-ethnic than China and his own deeply felt Russian nationalism, he does not tolerate the kind of skinhead, hardcore racial Russian ethno-nationalism associated with their version of the hard right (they get regularly locked up) and has even allowed mass Central Asian immigration to do construction jobs. That this has nothing at all in common with Western notions of political correctness and multiculturalism should be obvious, but, nevertheless, the two countries do handle their minority questions quite differently. And the reality is probably disappointing to the alt-right and left-wingers alike.

    Replies: @Jake, @Anonymous, @Anonymous

    Your take on Putin and Russia is correct. Also correct is your assessment that what Russia is doing in terms of non-Russian ethnic groups is something that most alt-right leaders cannot be happy about. What Putin is doing does, however, fit with what a nation would do if it wished to act as if Christendom can be revived.

    Both the Communist Chinese and the Anglo-Zionist Empire reject what Putin is doing.

  68. @Terry Cummings
    Instead of snarking about Black women maybe you should read pulitzer prize winning columnists on how the right wing is destroying america through hatred and incompetence

    https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/leonard-pitts-jr/article243770527.html

    We have 1 last chance to save America..vote blue, take the White House & flip the senate. Then we can begin rebuilding what tRump has destroyed. But to quote the brilliant Elizabeth Warren...big problems require big structural change. We have one chance to go big or lose country

    We NEED to defeat the evil of white supremacy and defeat evil white men once and for all

    Replies: @anon, @Johnny789, @Coemgen, @Jake

    The best way to achieve those goals is to demand that blacks be granted their own American nation – 2 or 3 states in which all whites are removed and into which all blacks can move. That should be a new nation – call it Wakanda.

    The second best way to achieve your goals is to divide the states into at least 2 nations, one Blue and one Red.

    If blacks no longer have to live in a nation in which whites ruin everything for them with white racism then, and only then, can blacks shine.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Jake


    The best way to achieve those goals is to demand that blacks be granted their own American nation – 2 or 3 states in which all whites are removed and into which all blacks can move. That should be a new nation – call it Wakanda.

    The second best way to achieve your goals is to divide the states into at least 2 nations, one Blue and one Red.
     
    I'd flip those two around. We can't live with virtue signaling whites loyal to minoritarianism--and their "virtue"--rather than to Americans.

    But ... yeah. If minoritarians--blacks, Jews, "the left", Democrats, "liberals"--actually believed any of the crap about whites that they spew, they would be all in on separation. Needless to say that is *not* what they want.
    , @Anonymous
    @Jake

    'Wakanda' will just become an English-speaking 'Haiti', a desperately poor country full of people desperate to get out.

  69. @Anonymous
    FWIW, "Rushan Abbas" is CIA:

    https://twitter.com/RobbieBarwick/status/1277406900552753152

    Replies: @Jack D

    Did she personally shove food up Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s ass? I sure hope so because he richly deserves it. A hot poker would have been even better.

    If she really did, this is a real plus mark in my book. Maybe she is a Muslim but she isn’t a terrorist sympathizer like Barwick. Or maybe she was just present at the base in a completely unrelated capacity and Barwick is trying to tar her thru guilt by association?

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Boy the way Glenn Miller played
    @Jack D


    Did she personally shove food up Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s ass? I sure hope so because he richly deserves it. A hot poker would have been even better
     
    .

    I would have preferred her to use a rack of St. Louis style spare ribs.
  70. @last straw
    The Uyghur sterilization tall tale is just some recycled Tibetan sterilization BS in reaction to the National Security Law, nothing new. In fact, the Uyghur population doubled in the Uyghur areas over the past 40 years, and the proportion of the Uyghur population in the Uyghur ares also increased.

    https://twitter.com/SpokespersonCHN/status/1277993782508576768

    https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277660796525465607

    As for the hair, how do you know it's from Uyghurs? Is there any genetic test for that? Otherwise, it's just all BS like the sterilization fairy tale. There are 6-7 billion women in China, any of them could sell hers voluntarily for a small fortune, just like women in the rest of the world.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Jack D

    Can’t both be true? Uigher population growing too fast so CCP decides to do something about it?

    I think the allegation is that these weaves were processed using Uigher prison camp labor, not that they were necessarily shorn from the prisoners themselves.

    • Replies: @d dan
    @Jack D


    "Can’t both be true? Uigher population growing too fast so CCP decides to do something about it?"
     
    By that argument, everything can be true. US government could also have decided to do something about blacks, native Americans, Latinos, Asians, etc...

    The increase in the number of Uighur population is a piece of evidence against the many lies that CIA and anti-China groups are propagating for decades. There are plenty of other evidences too (e.g. official government policies for other non-Uighur minorities, similar growth of populations of other minorities, non-western foreign countries' testimonials, ... and a lot more I can write for another 20 minutes). But typical Americans and westerns are just too ignorant, lazy or bias to understand the details and weight of evidences. Yet they have no hesitation to jump to conclusion: blame China - it is a good ways to distract them to problems in their own countries.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Astuteobservor II

  71. @Dave Pinsen
    @nebulafox

    China sees what ethnic diversity looks like in the West and has decided against it.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Jack D, @Corvinus

    The Chinese have had ethnic minorities inside their empire forever. What is new is the zeal of the CCP to permanently repress the Uighers once and for all.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    Although they'd always had a history with each other ranging from peaceful trade to wars, the Uighurs are a "late" (by imperial Chinese standards) official incorporation that came into the imperial fold in the Qing dynasty. They took the first chance they got after the Qing fell to try and break off, and also launched a very serious rebellion that killed a 5-digit million amount of people in the late 19th Century. So Uighur separatism isn't anything new.

    This is primarily about race, not religion: the very secular ethnic Kazakhs have also been hit by the new birth control policies. As I've already stated, the Huis do just fine and do not identify with the Uighurs at all. As long as you aren't aiming to become a CCP member (you need to be an atheist), or aren't doing stuff like harboring North Korean defectors in your church or indulging in jihadi ideas in your mosque, China generally doesn't care about religion anymore. Islamist religious ideas only came into it as an ideological justification in recent decades for Uighur militants when it became clear that pro-Soviet Communism and pan-Turkic ideals weren't going to do the trick.

  72. Anonymous[346] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox
    @Dave Pinsen

    I feel like many Americans really don't seem to grasp how, over the last two decades, the US has turned from a country that everybody wanted to imitate to a nation that seems fundamentally broken. Makes me sad to say it, but I can't deny reality.

    A strong distaste for what the Chinese call "baizuo" certainly isn't hard to find on the Chinese web, but China has had its minorities for a while. It's worth bearing in mind that there are other minorities in China-Koreans in the Northeast, Zhuang down south in Guangxi-that are mostly left alone. But the Chinese government doesn't have to really worry, most of them speak fluent Mandarin and are often likely to marry ethnic Han, with the resulting kids looking and sounding Chinese.

    It is interesting to note that despite being portrayed as far more neo-fascist than Xi Jinping in the US media, Vladimir Putin has chosen the opposite route of the ChiComs. Despite Russia being more multi-ethnic than China and his own deeply felt Russian nationalism, he does not tolerate the kind of skinhead, hardcore racial Russian ethno-nationalism associated with their version of the hard right (they get regularly locked up) and has even allowed mass Central Asian immigration to do construction jobs. That this has nothing at all in common with Western notions of political correctness and multiculturalism should be obvious, but, nevertheless, the two countries do handle their minority questions quite differently. And the reality is probably disappointing to the alt-right and left-wingers alike.

    Replies: @Jake, @Anonymous, @Anonymous

    Russia and China seem to deal with the ethnic minority issue by encouraging racial and cultural assimilation to the majority identity, and in the case of Uyghurs arguably by quite forcible and frankly genocidal means. They also tend to give minorities no special rights or recognition, in fact they make it so identifying with the majority carries the most rights.

    I can’t imagine this is very palatable to right wingers who believe in racial/cultural purity or leftists who believe in diversity, multiculturalism and the rights of minorities.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Anonymous

    The thing to get about Russia is that it has been a multiracial place for far longer than any Western country: or even China, given that the Uighurs and related peoples were annexed under the Qing. By the time of the big expansion into the Caucasus, Poland, into Siberia, etc, the Tsars already had a prominent Muslim minority after their late medieval conquests, and a smaller but high octane German minority that roughly played the same role in Tsarist Russia that ethnic Chinese did in modern Southeast Asia. For most of the empire's history, both the Muslims (something that would shock people here) and the Germans proved to be far more loyal to the empire and would identify as Russian than later additions such as the Poles or Jews would.

    Because of this, the Russians have a lot of experience with encouraging Russian social identification, including the prized status of the Orthodox religion, while simultaneously making sure to avoid making it about race. The Tsars had to thread this needle: there really wasn't any other way of governing in an era before things like Russification were possible. This isn't to say that a racial idea of Russian nationalism doesn't exist, it does and has since the late Tsarist period, but it never really took off among the "mainstream right", if that makes sense. This takes place even today: one recently dead Red Army era commander who both Putin and Xi admired was an ethnically Tartar Sunni Muslim, another member of Putin's inner circle is half-Tuvan.

    Put more crudely, "Russian-ness" is not being the same as being an ethnic Russian. I remember one Tsarist officer who made a joke along the lines of his father being a Lutheran German and his mother being a Buddhist Kalmyk, so of course, he's an Orthodox Russian, or something like that.

    >I can’t imagine this is very palatable to right wingers who believe in racial/cultural purity or leftists who believe in diversity, multiculturalism and the rights of minorities.

    Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. Putin himself is no alt-righter: as I've mentioned, mostly Muslim mass immigration from Central Asia into Russia is a thing. This would massively disappoint both the US Left, determined to make him into the International Mastermind of White Supremacy, and his alt-right fanboys both in the US and in Europe. If anything, modern China comes closer to what the alt-right wants with their new demographic engineering policies, though it still falls short: minorities do get AA benefits in China, including educational opportunities. And as I've mentioned, the real reason for the strife in Xinjiang is because of a non-trivial separatist insurgency threat there... and it isn't as if mass Han settlement in Xinjiang is new.

    What if you are right winger who despises Diversity Inc and wants to at least acknowledge the possibility of racial differences, but also has no time for racialist nonsense about "peaceful ethnic separation" and believes that culture ultimately trumps race? I'd like to think I'm not the only political hobo out there.

    Replies: @Jane Plain

  73. @Anonymous
    OT: Steve, an entirely new level of cucking was reached by the two gop senators bill swapping out clolumbus day for juneteenth.

    Are you f***ing kidding me?

    These two are both crypto poofters, right? Think it's Ron Johnson and Lankford. WTF

    Replies: @WJ, @Kolya Krassotkin

    I don’t know much about Johnson but Lankford is a typical Churchian cuck. Muh Isrul, more immigration, backbite Trump, etc. Surprisingly, he voted against conviction on the impeachment debacle.

  74. @Anon
    22 western countries criticised China for her treatment of the Uighurs. China repeatedly invited them to visit Xinjiang for fact finding missions. None accepted but they continued to criticise anyway.

    50 countries, including dozens of Muslim countries, visited Xinjiang and all came back with full praise of China. Their ambassadors rejected the accusations and lodged an objection at the UN human rights commission, stating that they disagreed with the 22 western countries.

    Could anyone explain why we should trust the 22 western countries?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Yngvar

    Got any source for this Anon[273]? You know it would be a kind courtesy to include one when you make absurd statements like that.

  75. Bitches get Stitches

  76. @Reg Cæsar
    @nebulafox


    Remind yourself of that the next time some woke corporate twerp lectures you about the fundamentally racist nature of the United States while hopping up on his hind legs the moment Beijing commands.
     
    Peking, damn it, Peking. Stick to English at iSteve.


    Or we'll force you to pronounce Běijīng. Which you probably can't.



    https://www.freestudy.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Peking-University-Supports-Foreign-Student-with-Financial-Aid.png

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Gordo, @nebulafox, @australianbrainsize1325cchehe

    Did some northern chinese guy guy kick your ass when you were in china, I think you and stupid achman both had your asses handed to you by chinese guy for bad behaviour.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @australianbrainsize1325cchehe

    Impressive.
    It is as though, with a single graceful gesture, fate has removed the mantle of hegemony from decrepit hairy milk-drinking roundeye empires with their disorder and their thieving, and bestowed it upon a rightful recipient -- a new, meritocratic, orderly society, one which promises to govern with a consciousness of Australian brain sizes.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @australianbrainsize1325cchehe

    小鸭子在讽刺和英语方面要好得多。

    您的政治委员将收到我们的来信。

    Replies: @nebulafox, @australianbrainsize1325cchehe

  77. @ic1000
    @Dacian Julien Soros

    > For example, did you know that the Wuhan flu comes from Wuhan, China? This alone exonerates America’s government.

    Good point, even without the [sarc] tag! Whatabout that new strain?

    If Dr. Zheng-Li Shi of the Wuhan Institute of Virology hadn't created coronavirus chimeras and undertaken gain-of-function experiments in a laboratory with faulty safety procedures, you would have had to come up with some other way to foil commenter Harry Baldwin.

    I'm sure you'd be up to it.

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros

    Sorry, I was meant to ridicule nebulafox and his all-knowing “The Chinese have really stepped things up in Xinjiang over the last few years”. I should have my coffee before commenting next time.

    We struggle to hear about what ACTUALLY happens in New York, London, or Paris; but somehow he thinks he knows anything about Xinjiang.At least, you get to hear about the New York / London / Paris no-go areas from some heteordox or samizdat twitter user. But everything you know about China comes from people motivated to lie about it. Clintons, Trumps, Fox, CNN, and even CCP have something to lie about re. China.

  78. @Johnny789
    @Terry Cummings

    Hey, I saw you play for DePaul vs. UCLA during the 81-82 season right after I moved to LA from Chicago. That's the only time I've ever been in Pauley Pavillon. It was disappointing because it seemed like a glorified HS Gym to my eye.

    Replies: @Paul Jolliffe

    I saw Terry Cummings, Mark Aguirre and Teddy Grubbs from #1 DePaul lose to St. Joe’s (Philly) in Dayton in the 1981 NCAA tourney opener at the buzzer because they didn’t sprint back on defense after a missed free throw!

    (I was an 19 year old in the IU pep band – we were the second game of the day – IU 99, Maryland 64)

    https://sjuhawks.com/news/2013/3/21/208726038.aspx

    • Replies: @Johnny789
    @Paul Jolliffe

    Yes, DePaul was famous for blowing it early in the NCAA Tournament back then.

  79. @Lot
    “ Uighur women have Good Hair”

    Indeed.



    http://www.reallyghey.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/WGW.jpg

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    You stoll my joke…

    [MORE]

    Wigger hair slave…

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Chrisnonymous

    Impressive trick, I can smell the weed and BO through my computer screen.

  80. @Anonymous
    OT: Steve, an entirely new level of cucking was reached by the two gop senators bill swapping out clolumbus day for juneteenth.

    Are you f***ing kidding me?

    These two are both crypto poofters, right? Think it's Ron Johnson and Lankford. WTF

    Replies: @WJ, @Kolya Krassotkin

    When you wrote “crypto poofters,” naturally I first assumed you were alluding to Lindsay Graham, until I remembered he ain’t crypto.

  81. @Jack D
    @last straw

    Can't both be true? Uigher population growing too fast so CCP decides to do something about it?

    I think the allegation is that these weaves were processed using Uigher prison camp labor, not that they were necessarily shorn from the prisoners themselves.

    Replies: @d dan

    “Can’t both be true? Uigher population growing too fast so CCP decides to do something about it?”

    By that argument, everything can be true. US government could also have decided to do something about blacks, native Americans, Latinos, Asians, etc…

    The increase in the number of Uighur population is a piece of evidence against the many lies that CIA and anti-China groups are propagating for decades. There are plenty of other evidences too (e.g. official government policies for other non-Uighur minorities, similar growth of populations of other minorities, non-western foreign countries’ testimonials, … and a lot more I can write for another 20 minutes). But typical Americans and westerns are just too ignorant, lazy or bias to understand the details and weight of evidences. Yet they have no hesitation to jump to conclusion: blame China – it is a good ways to distract them to problems in their own countries.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @d dan

    This is the same non-argument the Izzies try and the same answer applies: people have more kids when they expect more of their kids to die young.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Astuteobservor II
    @d dan

    Don't take this kind of blogs too seriously or the comments. Or try to reason. But you can make fun :p.

  82. This is clearly racist. Whites are stopping those black land whales from getting the straight white (like) oppressors hair that they desperately want. They’re 5’3″ and only 240; severely undernourished because whitey won’t put supermarkets in the hood; I mean, it’s hard to manage the welfare, the food stamps, the free food fo the chillun; good thing the schools’ll deliver if the ghetto rats can’t go. AND they have to remember all their chilluns fathers – they’re like Einsteins.

  83. Anonymous[295] • Disclaimer says:
    @nebulafox
    @Dave Pinsen

    I feel like many Americans really don't seem to grasp how, over the last two decades, the US has turned from a country that everybody wanted to imitate to a nation that seems fundamentally broken. Makes me sad to say it, but I can't deny reality.

    A strong distaste for what the Chinese call "baizuo" certainly isn't hard to find on the Chinese web, but China has had its minorities for a while. It's worth bearing in mind that there are other minorities in China-Koreans in the Northeast, Zhuang down south in Guangxi-that are mostly left alone. But the Chinese government doesn't have to really worry, most of them speak fluent Mandarin and are often likely to marry ethnic Han, with the resulting kids looking and sounding Chinese.

    It is interesting to note that despite being portrayed as far more neo-fascist than Xi Jinping in the US media, Vladimir Putin has chosen the opposite route of the ChiComs. Despite Russia being more multi-ethnic than China and his own deeply felt Russian nationalism, he does not tolerate the kind of skinhead, hardcore racial Russian ethno-nationalism associated with their version of the hard right (they get regularly locked up) and has even allowed mass Central Asian immigration to do construction jobs. That this has nothing at all in common with Western notions of political correctness and multiculturalism should be obvious, but, nevertheless, the two countries do handle their minority questions quite differently. And the reality is probably disappointing to the alt-right and left-wingers alike.

    Replies: @Jake, @Anonymous, @Anonymous

    It’s worth bearing in mind that there are other minorities in China-Koreans in the Northeast, Zhuang down south in Guangxi-that are mostly left alone.

    There are Uighurs in major cities all over China, Uighur celebrities in mainstream China, prominent Uighurs in the communist party and government.

    The US Deep State weaponized the Uighurs and particularly their Muslim religion to foment terror and rebellion against the Chinese state, like it did with Muslim groups along the periphery of the Soviet empire during the Cold War. Because of both mainstream US media and internal Chinese censorship and propaganda, you don’t hear much about this insurrection and terror campaign.

    China could have taken the US approach to Muslim terrorism by invading militarily and destroying local administration, governance, and public infrastructure, allowing hundreds of thousands and even millions dying in the process and ensuing chaos. They decided to take the police state and internment approach instead.

    • Replies: @Jane Plain
    @Anonymous


    Uighur celebrities in mainstream China,

     

    Can you name one? This is interesting.

    Replies: @d dan

    , @nebulafox
    @Anonymous

    Sure. The US has tons of black celebrities and politicians, and the fact that more young, black, underclass men get arrested is because they commit over half the violent crime despite being maybe 1% of the United States is never really acknowledged.

    >The US Deep State weaponized the Uighurs and particularly their Muslim religion to foment terror and rebellion against the Chinese state, like it did with Muslim groups along the periphery of the Soviet empire during the Cold War.

    The PRC also helped the mujahideen in 1980s Afghanistan: arguably more directly than we did, if not with the same kind of $$$. That's part of how the post-1979 wave of Islamism got into their bloodstream in Xinjiang. As for today, trust me, the US government is simply not competent enough to do that kind of thing successfully anymore.

    I don't doubt there are some idiots in the "deep state" who want to go Leeroy Jenkins with Uighur separatist radicals, because there always is, and our politicians remain happy to morally grand-stand, as always. But apart from the fact that Corporate America would never tolerate any serious actions that could endanger their relationship with the PRC, the truth is that Uighur discontent goes back a long way. Before Islamism became popular, you had all these popular Soviet-backed revolutionary insurgencies throughout Xinjiang. Even before the Qing fell, it wasn't as if things were always hunky-dory. The Dungan Revolt-one minority led revolt among many as the Qing entered a coma-shows that. Bottom line: the US did not create this.

    Look, man, I'll say it again: I *do not care* what China wants to do insofar as it doesn't concern the USA. I don't think your domestic policies are illogical and I think the PRC letting the Uighurs or Tibetans secede is just as stupid as us giving Texas and California back to Mexico. And I believe in Westphalian national sovereignty, always have. But I'm not going to sit around and be lectured by a bunch of PRC-fellating toadies in our media and the private sector on how horribly immoral and racist the US is. We're not throwing our problem minorities into camps, and if anything, we're trying to engineer demographics in the opposite direction from what the PRC is.

    No, we've got the other problem: we're letting the guilt complexes of whining baizuo destroy social order.

  84. anonymous[289] • Disclaimer says:

    The horror stories from Xinjiang are hard to believe because there is a lot of propaganda from the USG set to undermine China through advancing the separatism of Uighurs. The claim that there are or were 1 million Uighurs who have been interned is thin on sourcing. US officials have pushed the estimate up to as far as 3 million out of a total population of 10 million. This is improbable considering the normal functioning economy. That the figure keeps on rising by so much is a sign of no real data.

    The Defense Department charged Friday that China is running “concentration camps” for possibly three million Muslims to maintain internal control while aggressively pursuing a military buildup to confront the U.S.

    Use of the politically explosive term “concentration camps” is appropriate given the scope of China’s massive detentions of mostly Muslim ethnic Uighurs and other groups in the country’s western Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region, said Randall Schriver, assistant secretary of Defense for Indo-Pacific Security Affairs.

    At a Pentagon briefing on the DoD’s annual report on China’s military, Schriver said that “at least a million, but likely closer to three million, out of a total population of about 10 million” Uighurs and other groups had been sent to camps, “so a very significant portion of the population.”

    https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/05/03/china-running-concentration-camps-millions-muslims-pentagon-says.html

    It’s also interesting to note the histrionic tone of alt right voices on Uighurs in China “dead Uighur slaves”. The alt right sounds like the other side of the same blob as BLM. Both are driven by a similar status insecurity motive. BLM is a movement of blacks to bring down whites because blacks want to enhance their status. Similarly the alt right wants to take China down a notch to enhance the status of the dysfunctional West. When it comes to racial status envy, nobody is terribly concerned about accuracy.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @anonymous

    Oh man, it would be so awful if the Chinese executed a lot of Uighurs without any legal process we would recognize, and eliminated their culture, and subjected the rest to a grueling schedule of beatings, conformity exercises, and soul crushing, because if that happened, gosh, just think of the CIA foreign interference which must have been behind it all.

    Replies: @anonymous

  85. My husband and I went to Urumchi in 2007. We stayed a week in the area. The Chinese were very watchful and the Uighurs were very reserved about talking to us at first. We just wanted to get a taste of the culture, to see the mummies in Urumchi and Hami and to ride the trains. The Uighurs were very friendly.
    We started our rail trip by going to Tibet on the one year old high-speed train to Tibet. If Tibet is an example of what the Chinese plan, then the plan is to flood the area with Han Chinese. Llhasa looks and feels like any other place in China. Kids with tshirts, Coca-Cola signs, multi-colored lights in a giant fountain accompanied by blaring music.
    I don’t know if the Chinese are imprisoning Uighurs by the thousands but there were plenty of police patrolling Urumchi 13 years ago. It was obvious.

  86. So, is it made of Uigur hair? Someone DNA test that shit. And trace it back to that sister of hers.

    Stop bitching n moaning. Don’t leave us all of hanging.

    Didn’t realize accusations were enough.

  87. @Paul Jolliffe
    @Johnny789

    I saw Terry Cummings, Mark Aguirre and Teddy Grubbs from #1 DePaul lose to St. Joe’s (Philly) in Dayton in the 1981 NCAA tourney opener at the buzzer because they didn’t sprint back on defense after a missed free throw!

    (I was an 19 year old in the IU pep band - we were the second game of the day - IU 99, Maryland 64)

    https://sjuhawks.com/news/2013/3/21/208726038.aspx

    Replies: @Johnny789

    Yes, DePaul was famous for blowing it early in the NCAA Tournament back then.

  88. @Cowtown Rebel
    May I recommend for your viewing pleasure "Good Hair," a documentary by Chris Rock? This hilarious program illustrates the measures Nigresses will go through and the exorbitant amounts they will pay to get weaves and other products to have long, luxurious hair. I swear my mother could have made a fortune if she had continued to knot macrame.

    The documentary features scenes of bald headed women in India and China who had sold their hair. It look like a cult devoted to the teachings of Sinead O'Connor. Meanwhile, Rock went around to wig shops trying to sell a bag full of African hair. One Chinese man told him, while forming a bouncing arc over his head with his hands, "No one want. No one want poofy."

    Replies: @Just another serf

    Allows us to reconsider the German activities during the war. All the hair we are told was shorn from the heads of Jewish detainees, was actually intended for use as donated weaves to poor African-American women throughout the world. The hostile white allies were determined to stop this act of kindness.

    History is interesting stuff.

  89. @anonymous
    The horror stories from Xinjiang are hard to believe because there is a lot of propaganda from the USG set to undermine China through advancing the separatism of Uighurs. The claim that there are or were 1 million Uighurs who have been interned is thin on sourcing. US officials have pushed the estimate up to as far as 3 million out of a total population of 10 million. This is improbable considering the normal functioning economy. That the figure keeps on rising by so much is a sign of no real data.

    The Defense Department charged Friday that China is running "concentration camps" for possibly three million Muslims to maintain internal control while aggressively pursuing a military buildup to confront the U.S.

    Use of the politically explosive term "concentration camps" is appropriate given the scope of China's massive detentions of mostly Muslim ethnic Uighurs and other groups in the country's western Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region, said Randall Schriver, assistant secretary of Defense for Indo-Pacific Security Affairs.

    At a Pentagon briefing on the DoD's annual report on China's military, Schriver said that "at least a million, but likely closer to three million, out of a total population of about 10 million" Uighurs and other groups had been sent to camps, "so a very significant portion of the population."

     

    https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/05/03/china-running-concentration-camps-millions-muslims-pentagon-says.html

    It's also interesting to note the histrionic tone of alt right voices on Uighurs in China "dead Uighur slaves". The alt right sounds like the other side of the same blob as BLM. Both are driven by a similar status insecurity motive. BLM is a movement of blacks to bring down whites because blacks want to enhance their status. Similarly the alt right wants to take China down a notch to enhance the status of the dysfunctional West. When it comes to racial status envy, nobody is terribly concerned about accuracy.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Oh man, it would be so awful if the Chinese executed a lot of Uighurs without any legal process we would recognize, and eliminated their culture, and subjected the rest to a grueling schedule of beatings, conformity exercises, and soul crushing, because if that happened, gosh, just think of the CIA foreign interference which must have been behind it all.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @J.Ross

    The actions of the Chinese state are part of a crackdown on the Uighur insurgency in the 2010s.


    On the morning of 22 May 2014, two sport utility vehicles (SUVs) carrying five assailants were driven into a busy street market in Ürümqi, the capital of China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. Up to a dozen explosives were thrown at shoppers from the windows of the SUVs. The SUVs crashed into shoppers then collided with each other and exploded. 43 people were killed, including 4 of the assailants, and more than 90 wounded...
     
    To be objective, the state's actions should be judged according to the insurgency context. Xinjiang is not home to a peaceful Muslim minority. During the same time period there was a Muslim insurgency in France and notions of Western justice and the limits of the state prevailed compared to China. But is the way France, Belgium, and the rest of the Europe handled its Muslim insurgency something to be proud of? If you don't think so, then why do you think China's conduct is a disgrace?

    You may think China being tough went way too far and the insurgency context doesn't provide unlimited license but the extent of mass internment, the biggest abuse of civil liberties, is not known. The blurry source for the 1 million figure is elevated now by the US government to 3 million and not convincing. I think your response is overwrought and feels like trying to talk with a BLM activist. Too much in the way of slogans and not enough measured thinking because the objective is not analysis but taking down China a notch.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  90. @d dan
    @Jack D


    "Can’t both be true? Uigher population growing too fast so CCP decides to do something about it?"
     
    By that argument, everything can be true. US government could also have decided to do something about blacks, native Americans, Latinos, Asians, etc...

    The increase in the number of Uighur population is a piece of evidence against the many lies that CIA and anti-China groups are propagating for decades. There are plenty of other evidences too (e.g. official government policies for other non-Uighur minorities, similar growth of populations of other minorities, non-western foreign countries' testimonials, ... and a lot more I can write for another 20 minutes). But typical Americans and westerns are just too ignorant, lazy or bias to understand the details and weight of evidences. Yet they have no hesitation to jump to conclusion: blame China - it is a good ways to distract them to problems in their own countries.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Astuteobservor II

    This is the same non-argument the Izzies try and the same answer applies: people have more kids when they expect more of their kids to die young.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @J.Ross

    Exactly. Unlike the Uighurs, American Indians have dwindled in population and those that remain look like Elizabeth Warren. That's how you know the Chinese government has suppressed the Uighurs while the US government has supported the Indians.

    Replies: @Astuteobservor II

  91. @australianbrainsize1325cchehe
    @Reg Cæsar

    Did some northern chinese guy guy kick your ass when you were in china, I think you and stupid achman both had your asses handed to you by chinese guy for bad behaviour.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Reg Cæsar

    Impressive.
    It is as though, with a single graceful gesture, fate has removed the mantle of hegemony from decrepit hairy milk-drinking roundeye empires with their disorder and their thieving, and bestowed it upon a rightful recipient — a new, meritocratic, orderly society, one which promises to govern with a consciousness of Australian brain sizes.

  92. @Jake
    @Terry Cummings

    The best way to achieve those goals is to demand that blacks be granted their own American nation - 2 or 3 states in which all whites are removed and into which all blacks can move. That should be a new nation - call it Wakanda.

    The second best way to achieve your goals is to divide the states into at least 2 nations, one Blue and one Red.

    If blacks no longer have to live in a nation in which whites ruin everything for them with white racism then, and only then, can blacks shine.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Anonymous

    The best way to achieve those goals is to demand that blacks be granted their own American nation – 2 or 3 states in which all whites are removed and into which all blacks can move. That should be a new nation – call it Wakanda.

    The second best way to achieve your goals is to divide the states into at least 2 nations, one Blue and one Red.

    I’d flip those two around. We can’t live with virtue signaling whites loyal to minoritarianism–and their “virtue”–rather than to Americans.

    But … yeah. If minoritarians–blacks, Jews, “the left”, Democrats, “liberals”–actually believed any of the crap about whites that they spew, they would be all in on separation. Needless to say that is *not* what they want.

  93. @Chrisnonymous
    @Lot

    You stoll my joke...


    Wigger hair slave...

    http://balidreadlocks-studio.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/BD3.jpeg

    Replies: @Lot

    Impressive trick, I can smell the weed and BO through my computer screen.

  94. Anonymous[421] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jake
    @Terry Cummings

    The best way to achieve those goals is to demand that blacks be granted their own American nation - 2 or 3 states in which all whites are removed and into which all blacks can move. That should be a new nation - call it Wakanda.

    The second best way to achieve your goals is to divide the states into at least 2 nations, one Blue and one Red.

    If blacks no longer have to live in a nation in which whites ruin everything for them with white racism then, and only then, can blacks shine.

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Anonymous

    ‘Wakanda’ will just become an English-speaking ‘Haiti’, a desperately poor country full of people desperate to get out.

  95. @Anonymous
    @nebulafox


    It’s worth bearing in mind that there are other minorities in China-Koreans in the Northeast, Zhuang down south in Guangxi-that are mostly left alone.
     
    There are Uighurs in major cities all over China, Uighur celebrities in mainstream China, prominent Uighurs in the communist party and government.

    The US Deep State weaponized the Uighurs and particularly their Muslim religion to foment terror and rebellion against the Chinese state, like it did with Muslim groups along the periphery of the Soviet empire during the Cold War. Because of both mainstream US media and internal Chinese censorship and propaganda, you don't hear much about this insurrection and terror campaign.

    China could have taken the US approach to Muslim terrorism by invading militarily and destroying local administration, governance, and public infrastructure, allowing hundreds of thousands and even millions dying in the process and ensuing chaos. They decided to take the police state and internment approach instead.

    Replies: @Jane Plain, @nebulafox

    Uighur celebrities in mainstream China,

    Can you name one? This is interesting.

    • Replies: @d dan
    @Jane Plain



    "Uighur celebrities in mainstream China,"
     
    "Can you name one? This is interesting."
     
    Sorry. All info below are in Chinese.

    Look at this short video for a quick summary of famous Uighur actresses in Chinese movies/TV:
    https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Wa4y1i7SS?from=search&seid=88171435084919964

    Individual links of actress:
    Actress: 古力娜扎(Gulnazar)
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%8F%A4%E5%8A%9B%E5%A8%9C%E6%89%8E

    Actress: 迪丽热巴(Dilraba)
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%BF%AA%E4%B8%BD%E7%83%AD%E5%B7%B4

    Actress: 穆克代斯·库尔班
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%BB%A3%E6%96%AF/13826056?fromtitle=%E7%A9%86%E5%85%8B%E4%BB%A3%E6%96%AF%C2%B7%E5%BA%93%E5%B0%94%E7%8F%AD&fromid=23186894

    Actress: 麦迪娜(Madina)
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E9%BA%A6%E8%BF%AA%E5%A8%9C?fromtitle=%E9%BA%A6%E8%BF%AA%E5%A8%9C%C2%B7%E4%B9%B0%E4%B9%B0%E6%8F%90&fromid=10103837

    Hot internet search:
    https://search.bilibili.com/all?keyword=%E7%BB%B4%E5%90%BE%E5%B0%94%E6%97%8F%E7%BE%8E%E5%A5%B3&from_source=nav_search_new

    Replies: @Jane Plain, @Jane Plain

  96. Anonymous[153] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross
    @d dan

    This is the same non-argument the Izzies try and the same answer applies: people have more kids when they expect more of their kids to die young.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Exactly. Unlike the Uighurs, American Indians have dwindled in population and those that remain look like Elizabeth Warren. That’s how you know the Chinese government has suppressed the Uighurs while the US government has supported the Indians.

    • Replies: @Astuteobservor II
    @Anonymous

    Lol.

  97. @d dan
    @Jack D


    "Can’t both be true? Uigher population growing too fast so CCP decides to do something about it?"
     
    By that argument, everything can be true. US government could also have decided to do something about blacks, native Americans, Latinos, Asians, etc...

    The increase in the number of Uighur population is a piece of evidence against the many lies that CIA and anti-China groups are propagating for decades. There are plenty of other evidences too (e.g. official government policies for other non-Uighur minorities, similar growth of populations of other minorities, non-western foreign countries' testimonials, ... and a lot more I can write for another 20 minutes). But typical Americans and westerns are just too ignorant, lazy or bias to understand the details and weight of evidences. Yet they have no hesitation to jump to conclusion: blame China - it is a good ways to distract them to problems in their own countries.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Astuteobservor II

    Don’t take this kind of blogs too seriously or the comments. Or try to reason. But you can make fun :p.

  98. @Anonymous
    @J.Ross

    Exactly. Unlike the Uighurs, American Indians have dwindled in population and those that remain look like Elizabeth Warren. That's how you know the Chinese government has suppressed the Uighurs while the US government has supported the Indians.

    Replies: @Astuteobservor II

    Lol.

  99. @Jane Plain
    @Anonymous


    Uighur celebrities in mainstream China,

     

    Can you name one? This is interesting.

    Replies: @d dan

    • Replies: @Jane Plain
    @d dan

    Thank you!

    Happy Fourth!

    , @Jane Plain
    @d dan

    Thanks - I looked up Uighur celebs on my own. I'm actually surprised at how Chinese they look, with a little something "extra."

  100. @Dave Pinsen
    @nebulafox

    China sees what ethnic diversity looks like in the West and has decided against it.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Jack D, @Corvinus

    “China sees what ethnic diversity looks like in the West and has decided against it.”

    You do realize that Chinese that Chinese does have many ethnic groups, right? Zhuang (16.9 million), Hui (10.5 million), Manchu (10.3 million), Uyghur (10 million), Miao (9.4 million), Yi (8.7 million), Tujia (8.3 million), Tibetan (6.2 million), Mongol (5.9 million), Dong (2.8 million), Buyei (2.8 million), Yao (2.7 million), Bai (1.9 million), Korean (1.8 million), Hani (1.6 million), Li (1.4 million), Kazakh (1.4 million) and Dai (1.2 million).

    And, of course they fought for centuries to remain isolated from the rest of the world. It’s not a recent phenomenon. Europeans, on the other hand, had long championed diversity–by way of marriage of powerful nobles from different nations. With the birth of the Thirteen Colonies, there developed a “mutt mentality”, e.g. a farmer of English stock marrying a woman who was Dutch, an Irish lass being hitched to a German factory worker.

    It’s who we are.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Corvinus

    The interesting thing about Han culture is that it is extremely absorptive, probably holding the record in human history. Even on the subcontinent, home to traditions and culture just as ancient and hard to uproot, 1/3rd of the people converted to Islam. That never happened with conquest dynasties like the Yuan and the Qing in China: they became completely, totally Sinicized.

    The only regional people out there who partly resisted Sinicization successfully were the Vietnamese, who have their origins in what is now Southern China.

    >You do realize that Chinese that Chinese does have many ethnic groups, right? Zhuang (16.9 million), Hui (10.5 million), Manchu (10.3 million), Uyghur (10 million), Miao (9.4 million), Yi (8.7 million), Tujia (8.3 million), Tibetan (6.2 million), Mongol (5.9 million), Dong (2.8 million), Buyei (2.8 million), Yao (2.7 million), Bai (1.9 million), Korean (1.8 million), Hani (1.6 million), Li (1.4 million), Kazakh (1.4 million) and Dai (1.2 million).

    Minority treatment in China is not uniform-and the second largest "minority" group, the Hui, aren't even really viewed as a minority at all. Just Han who happen to have special (highly regarded by the mainstream, Muslim food is considered cleaner and healthier) food and weird religious rituals. They regard themselves as Chinese and do not identify with the Turkic Uighurs one iota.

    As I alluded to earlier, groups that toe the line, assimilate, and do not attract outside attention (whether from Western bien-pensants or jihadis) get their own autonomous zones. They are not horrible places to live and their cultures are generally left alone, albeit with a greater degree of subordinate status than you see in, say, Russia, let alone the West. North Korean defectors from across the river can hide in Yanbian quite easily because all the signs are dual language in Korean. Since the younger Korean-Chinese identify as Chinese and speak Chinese and China has a good relationship with South Korea, this all works out just fine, though it's worth pointing out that the ethnic Koreans are now a numerical minority, unlike in the early years of the PRC.

    It's when minorities attract the attention of outsiders and pose a threat to either the borders (Tibetans) or domestic stability (Uighurs) that they receive negative attention. Uighur involvement in jihadi inspired Turkic separatist movements is not a figment of Beijing's imagination.

    >And, of course they fought for centuries to remain isolated from the rest of the world.

    China was not isolated from the rest of the region at all. There was a whole tributary system at work that different countries dealt with in different ways, but behind all the pomp was the reality of bilateral relations with the rest of East and much of Southeast Asia. And if you count the Russians as Europeans, the first systematic contact with them came 150 years before the Opium Wars. Before the Opium Wars happened, Europeans were free to come if they obeyed the rules (kowtow to the emperor, don't try to learn the language, don't leave your port without a guide, yadda yadda). I do see a certain degree of eerie, disturbing parallels between late Qianlong-era China and the modern US, but that has more to do with resting on laurels causing ignorance about the outside world than actual lack of contact.

    The country that did try to enact a genuine isolation policy for a couple of centuries was Japan, but regional neighbors were treated differently. Trade and diplomatic relations with China and Korea went on almost normally, albeit with a higher degree of control.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Corvinus


    You do realize that Chinese that Chinese does have many ethnic groups, right?
     
    Your long list doesn't even reach ten percent. The rest are Han.

    Many of those "minorities" are actually majorities in their occupied territory, and isolated from the view of most Chinese. In Chinese China, Han are well over 95%. Among countries of very large population, only Japan and (if you go by culture rather than race) Brazil are as homogeneous.
  101. @australianbrainsize1325cchehe
    @Reg Cæsar

    Did some northern chinese guy guy kick your ass when you were in china, I think you and stupid achman both had your asses handed to you by chinese guy for bad behaviour.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Reg Cæsar

    小鸭子在讽刺和英语方面要好得多。

    您的政治委员将收到我们的来信。

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Reg Cæsar

    Worse than TD? Jeez, that dude's in trouble.

    You know, TD *has* improved his syntax and grammar. Wonder if he realized the trolling shtick would be more effective that way.

    >Many of those “minorities” are actually majorities in their occupied territory, and isolated from the view of most Chinese. In Chinese China, Han are well over 95%. Among countries of very large population, only Japan and (if you go by culture rather than race) Brazil are as homogeneous.

    As I mentioned, if you want a "non-Western" version of multiculturalism in action, Russia's a much better example than China. Only 80% of citizens are ethnic Russians, and that number used to run significantly lower in previous time periods.

    , @australianbrainsize1325cchehe
    @Reg Cæsar

    yup your ass was whipped in BEI-JING

  102. @Corvinus
    @Dave Pinsen

    "China sees what ethnic diversity looks like in the West and has decided against it."

    You do realize that Chinese that Chinese does have many ethnic groups, right? Zhuang (16.9 million), Hui (10.5 million), Manchu (10.3 million), Uyghur (10 million), Miao (9.4 million), Yi (8.7 million), Tujia (8.3 million), Tibetan (6.2 million), Mongol (5.9 million), Dong (2.8 million), Buyei (2.8 million), Yao (2.7 million), Bai (1.9 million), Korean (1.8 million), Hani (1.6 million), Li (1.4 million), Kazakh (1.4 million) and Dai (1.2 million).

    And, of course they fought for centuries to remain isolated from the rest of the world. It's not a recent phenomenon. Europeans, on the other hand, had long championed diversity--by way of marriage of powerful nobles from different nations. With the birth of the Thirteen Colonies, there developed a "mutt mentality", e.g. a farmer of English stock marrying a woman who was Dutch, an Irish lass being hitched to a German factory worker.

    It's who we are.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Reg Cæsar

    The interesting thing about Han culture is that it is extremely absorptive, probably holding the record in human history. Even on the subcontinent, home to traditions and culture just as ancient and hard to uproot, 1/3rd of the people converted to Islam. That never happened with conquest dynasties like the Yuan and the Qing in China: they became completely, totally Sinicized.

    The only regional people out there who partly resisted Sinicization successfully were the Vietnamese, who have their origins in what is now Southern China.

    >You do realize that Chinese that Chinese does have many ethnic groups, right? Zhuang (16.9 million), Hui (10.5 million), Manchu (10.3 million), Uyghur (10 million), Miao (9.4 million), Yi (8.7 million), Tujia (8.3 million), Tibetan (6.2 million), Mongol (5.9 million), Dong (2.8 million), Buyei (2.8 million), Yao (2.7 million), Bai (1.9 million), Korean (1.8 million), Hani (1.6 million), Li (1.4 million), Kazakh (1.4 million) and Dai (1.2 million).

    Minority treatment in China is not uniform-and the second largest “minority” group, the Hui, aren’t even really viewed as a minority at all. Just Han who happen to have special (highly regarded by the mainstream, Muslim food is considered cleaner and healthier) food and weird religious rituals. They regard themselves as Chinese and do not identify with the Turkic Uighurs one iota.

    As I alluded to earlier, groups that toe the line, assimilate, and do not attract outside attention (whether from Western bien-pensants or jihadis) get their own autonomous zones. They are not horrible places to live and their cultures are generally left alone, albeit with a greater degree of subordinate status than you see in, say, Russia, let alone the West. North Korean defectors from across the river can hide in Yanbian quite easily because all the signs are dual language in Korean. Since the younger Korean-Chinese identify as Chinese and speak Chinese and China has a good relationship with South Korea, this all works out just fine, though it’s worth pointing out that the ethnic Koreans are now a numerical minority, unlike in the early years of the PRC.

    It’s when minorities attract the attention of outsiders and pose a threat to either the borders (Tibetans) or domestic stability (Uighurs) that they receive negative attention. Uighur involvement in jihadi inspired Turkic separatist movements is not a figment of Beijing’s imagination.

    >And, of course they fought for centuries to remain isolated from the rest of the world.

    China was not isolated from the rest of the region at all. There was a whole tributary system at work that different countries dealt with in different ways, but behind all the pomp was the reality of bilateral relations with the rest of East and much of Southeast Asia. And if you count the Russians as Europeans, the first systematic contact with them came 150 years before the Opium Wars. Before the Opium Wars happened, Europeans were free to come if they obeyed the rules (kowtow to the emperor, don’t try to learn the language, don’t leave your port without a guide, yadda yadda). I do see a certain degree of eerie, disturbing parallels between late Qianlong-era China and the modern US, but that has more to do with resting on laurels causing ignorance about the outside world than actual lack of contact.

    The country that did try to enact a genuine isolation policy for a couple of centuries was Japan, but regional neighbors were treated differently. Trade and diplomatic relations with China and Korea went on almost normally, albeit with a higher degree of control.

  103. @Corvinus
    @Dave Pinsen

    "China sees what ethnic diversity looks like in the West and has decided against it."

    You do realize that Chinese that Chinese does have many ethnic groups, right? Zhuang (16.9 million), Hui (10.5 million), Manchu (10.3 million), Uyghur (10 million), Miao (9.4 million), Yi (8.7 million), Tujia (8.3 million), Tibetan (6.2 million), Mongol (5.9 million), Dong (2.8 million), Buyei (2.8 million), Yao (2.7 million), Bai (1.9 million), Korean (1.8 million), Hani (1.6 million), Li (1.4 million), Kazakh (1.4 million) and Dai (1.2 million).

    And, of course they fought for centuries to remain isolated from the rest of the world. It's not a recent phenomenon. Europeans, on the other hand, had long championed diversity--by way of marriage of powerful nobles from different nations. With the birth of the Thirteen Colonies, there developed a "mutt mentality", e.g. a farmer of English stock marrying a woman who was Dutch, an Irish lass being hitched to a German factory worker.

    It's who we are.

    Replies: @nebulafox, @Reg Cæsar

    You do realize that Chinese that Chinese does have many ethnic groups, right?

    Your long list doesn’t even reach ten percent. The rest are Han.

    Many of those “minorities” are actually majorities in their occupied territory, and isolated from the view of most Chinese. In Chinese China, Han are well over 95%. Among countries of very large population, only Japan and (if you go by culture rather than race) Brazil are as homogeneous.

  104. @anon
    @Harry Baldwin

    Would American blacks ever acknowledge that there are people in the world who are more oppressed than they are? I don’t think so.

    They learned that "most oppressed people evah" from (((someone))) or other. No idea who...er...whom....eh, whatever.

    Replies: @Lockean Proviso, @Reg Cæsar

    They learned that “most oppressed people evah” from (((someone))) or other. No idea who…er…whom….eh, whatever.

    Other than that they really hate Yankees, and blame them for everything wrong in the world. Where have we seen that before?

  105. @Reg Cæsar
    @australianbrainsize1325cchehe

    小鸭子在讽刺和英语方面要好得多。

    您的政治委员将收到我们的来信。

    Replies: @nebulafox, @australianbrainsize1325cchehe

    Worse than TD? Jeez, that dude’s in trouble.

    You know, TD *has* improved his syntax and grammar. Wonder if he realized the trolling shtick would be more effective that way.

    >Many of those “minorities” are actually majorities in their occupied territory, and isolated from the view of most Chinese. In Chinese China, Han are well over 95%. Among countries of very large population, only Japan and (if you go by culture rather than race) Brazil are as homogeneous.

    As I mentioned, if you want a “non-Western” version of multiculturalism in action, Russia’s a much better example than China. Only 80% of citizens are ethnic Russians, and that number used to run significantly lower in previous time periods.

  106. @Anonymous
    @nebulafox


    It’s worth bearing in mind that there are other minorities in China-Koreans in the Northeast, Zhuang down south in Guangxi-that are mostly left alone.
     
    There are Uighurs in major cities all over China, Uighur celebrities in mainstream China, prominent Uighurs in the communist party and government.

    The US Deep State weaponized the Uighurs and particularly their Muslim religion to foment terror and rebellion against the Chinese state, like it did with Muslim groups along the periphery of the Soviet empire during the Cold War. Because of both mainstream US media and internal Chinese censorship and propaganda, you don't hear much about this insurrection and terror campaign.

    China could have taken the US approach to Muslim terrorism by invading militarily and destroying local administration, governance, and public infrastructure, allowing hundreds of thousands and even millions dying in the process and ensuing chaos. They decided to take the police state and internment approach instead.

    Replies: @Jane Plain, @nebulafox

    Sure. The US has tons of black celebrities and politicians, and the fact that more young, black, underclass men get arrested is because they commit over half the violent crime despite being maybe 1% of the United States is never really acknowledged.

    >The US Deep State weaponized the Uighurs and particularly their Muslim religion to foment terror and rebellion against the Chinese state, like it did with Muslim groups along the periphery of the Soviet empire during the Cold War.

    The PRC also helped the mujahideen in 1980s Afghanistan: arguably more directly than we did, if not with the same kind of $$$. That’s part of how the post-1979 wave of Islamism got into their bloodstream in Xinjiang. As for today, trust me, the US government is simply not competent enough to do that kind of thing successfully anymore.

    I don’t doubt there are some idiots in the “deep state” who want to go Leeroy Jenkins with Uighur separatist radicals, because there always is, and our politicians remain happy to morally grand-stand, as always. But apart from the fact that Corporate America would never tolerate any serious actions that could endanger their relationship with the PRC, the truth is that Uighur discontent goes back a long way. Before Islamism became popular, you had all these popular Soviet-backed revolutionary insurgencies throughout Xinjiang. Even before the Qing fell, it wasn’t as if things were always hunky-dory. The Dungan Revolt-one minority led revolt among many as the Qing entered a coma-shows that. Bottom line: the US did not create this.

    Look, man, I’ll say it again: I *do not care* what China wants to do insofar as it doesn’t concern the USA. I don’t think your domestic policies are illogical and I think the PRC letting the Uighurs or Tibetans secede is just as stupid as us giving Texas and California back to Mexico. And I believe in Westphalian national sovereignty, always have. But I’m not going to sit around and be lectured by a bunch of PRC-fellating toadies in our media and the private sector on how horribly immoral and racist the US is. We’re not throwing our problem minorities into camps, and if anything, we’re trying to engineer demographics in the opposite direction from what the PRC is.

    No, we’ve got the other problem: we’re letting the guilt complexes of whining baizuo destroy social order.

  107. anonymous[289] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross
    @anonymous

    Oh man, it would be so awful if the Chinese executed a lot of Uighurs without any legal process we would recognize, and eliminated their culture, and subjected the rest to a grueling schedule of beatings, conformity exercises, and soul crushing, because if that happened, gosh, just think of the CIA foreign interference which must have been behind it all.

    Replies: @anonymous

    The actions of the Chinese state are part of a crackdown on the Uighur insurgency in the 2010s.

    On the morning of 22 May 2014, two sport utility vehicles (SUVs) carrying five assailants were driven into a busy street market in Ürümqi, the capital of China’s Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. Up to a dozen explosives were thrown at shoppers from the windows of the SUVs. The SUVs crashed into shoppers then collided with each other and exploded. 43 people were killed, including 4 of the assailants, and more than 90 wounded…

    To be objective, the state’s actions should be judged according to the insurgency context. Xinjiang is not home to a peaceful Muslim minority. During the same time period there was a Muslim insurgency in France and notions of Western justice and the limits of the state prevailed compared to China. But is the way France, Belgium, and the rest of the Europe handled its Muslim insurgency something to be proud of? If you don’t think so, then why do you think China’s conduct is a disgrace?

    You may think China being tough went way too far and the insurgency context doesn’t provide unlimited license but the extent of mass internment, the biggest abuse of civil liberties, is not known. The blurry source for the 1 million figure is elevated now by the US government to 3 million and not convincing. I think your response is overwrought and feels like trying to talk with a BLM activist. Too much in the way of slogans and not enough measured thinking because the objective is not analysis but taking down China a notch.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @anonymous

    Y'know, I cannot buy you a drink or explain to you the significance of the Terry Reid version of Walk Away Renee, but sie recht haben: muzzies are a giant pain in the ass but they are a general pain in the ass; there exist good mizzies; China however is the enemy. I could talk past Steve's capacity for banning about how much I hate the Company, but insofar as they actually somehow manage to get that Beijing is the enemy I am their cheerleader.

    Replies: @anonymous

  108. @Anonymous
    @nebulafox

    Russia and China seem to deal with the ethnic minority issue by encouraging racial and cultural assimilation to the majority identity, and in the case of Uyghurs arguably by quite forcible and frankly genocidal means. They also tend to give minorities no special rights or recognition, in fact they make it so identifying with the majority carries the most rights.

    I can't imagine this is very palatable to right wingers who believe in racial/cultural purity or leftists who believe in diversity, multiculturalism and the rights of minorities.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    The thing to get about Russia is that it has been a multiracial place for far longer than any Western country: or even China, given that the Uighurs and related peoples were annexed under the Qing. By the time of the big expansion into the Caucasus, Poland, into Siberia, etc, the Tsars already had a prominent Muslim minority after their late medieval conquests, and a smaller but high octane German minority that roughly played the same role in Tsarist Russia that ethnic Chinese did in modern Southeast Asia. For most of the empire’s history, both the Muslims (something that would shock people here) and the Germans proved to be far more loyal to the empire and would identify as Russian than later additions such as the Poles or Jews would.

    Because of this, the Russians have a lot of experience with encouraging Russian social identification, including the prized status of the Orthodox religion, while simultaneously making sure to avoid making it about race. The Tsars had to thread this needle: there really wasn’t any other way of governing in an era before things like Russification were possible. This isn’t to say that a racial idea of Russian nationalism doesn’t exist, it does and has since the late Tsarist period, but it never really took off among the “mainstream right”, if that makes sense. This takes place even today: one recently dead Red Army era commander who both Putin and Xi admired was an ethnically Tartar Sunni Muslim, another member of Putin’s inner circle is half-Tuvan.

    Put more crudely, “Russian-ness” is not being the same as being an ethnic Russian. I remember one Tsarist officer who made a joke along the lines of his father being a Lutheran German and his mother being a Buddhist Kalmyk, so of course, he’s an Orthodox Russian, or something like that.

    >I can’t imagine this is very palatable to right wingers who believe in racial/cultural purity or leftists who believe in diversity, multiculturalism and the rights of minorities.

    Yeah, that’s what I’m getting at. Putin himself is no alt-righter: as I’ve mentioned, mostly Muslim mass immigration from Central Asia into Russia is a thing. This would massively disappoint both the US Left, determined to make him into the International Mastermind of White Supremacy, and his alt-right fanboys both in the US and in Europe. If anything, modern China comes closer to what the alt-right wants with their new demographic engineering policies, though it still falls short: minorities do get AA benefits in China, including educational opportunities. And as I’ve mentioned, the real reason for the strife in Xinjiang is because of a non-trivial separatist insurgency threat there… and it isn’t as if mass Han settlement in Xinjiang is new.

    What if you are right winger who despises Diversity Inc and wants to at least acknowledge the possibility of racial differences, but also has no time for racialist nonsense about “peaceful ethnic separation” and believes that culture ultimately trumps race? I’d like to think I’m not the only political hobo out there.

    • Agree: Gabe Ruth
    • Replies: @Jane Plain
    @nebulafox

    True. I don't know near enough about this as you do, but I've done a bit of reading about the Russian cultural pre-Revolutionary world, and I was always surprised at how multi-ethnic it was. Lenin was part Kalmyk, Pushkin fractionally African, Nureyev was a Muslim Bashkir, Balanchine half-Georgian, 1/4 German, Stravinsky was Polish....all "Russian."

    Since you seem to know some Russian history may I ask you a question? Why do they not obsess over serfdom the way Americans do over slavery?

    Replies: @nebulafox

  109. @Jack D
    @Dave Pinsen

    The Chinese have had ethnic minorities inside their empire forever. What is new is the zeal of the CCP to permanently repress the Uighers once and for all.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    Although they’d always had a history with each other ranging from peaceful trade to wars, the Uighurs are a “late” (by imperial Chinese standards) official incorporation that came into the imperial fold in the Qing dynasty. They took the first chance they got after the Qing fell to try and break off, and also launched a very serious rebellion that killed a 5-digit million amount of people in the late 19th Century. So Uighur separatism isn’t anything new.

    This is primarily about race, not religion: the very secular ethnic Kazakhs have also been hit by the new birth control policies. As I’ve already stated, the Huis do just fine and do not identify with the Uighurs at all. As long as you aren’t aiming to become a CCP member (you need to be an atheist), or aren’t doing stuff like harboring North Korean defectors in your church or indulging in jihadi ideas in your mosque, China generally doesn’t care about religion anymore. Islamist religious ideas only came into it as an ideological justification in recent decades for Uighur militants when it became clear that pro-Soviet Communism and pan-Turkic ideals weren’t going to do the trick.

  110. I wonder whether Uighur weaver women are transmitting secret messages (“Help, I’m trapped in a weave factory!”) encoded by means of
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quipu

  111. @anonymous
    @J.Ross

    The actions of the Chinese state are part of a crackdown on the Uighur insurgency in the 2010s.


    On the morning of 22 May 2014, two sport utility vehicles (SUVs) carrying five assailants were driven into a busy street market in Ürümqi, the capital of China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. Up to a dozen explosives were thrown at shoppers from the windows of the SUVs. The SUVs crashed into shoppers then collided with each other and exploded. 43 people were killed, including 4 of the assailants, and more than 90 wounded...
     
    To be objective, the state's actions should be judged according to the insurgency context. Xinjiang is not home to a peaceful Muslim minority. During the same time period there was a Muslim insurgency in France and notions of Western justice and the limits of the state prevailed compared to China. But is the way France, Belgium, and the rest of the Europe handled its Muslim insurgency something to be proud of? If you don't think so, then why do you think China's conduct is a disgrace?

    You may think China being tough went way too far and the insurgency context doesn't provide unlimited license but the extent of mass internment, the biggest abuse of civil liberties, is not known. The blurry source for the 1 million figure is elevated now by the US government to 3 million and not convincing. I think your response is overwrought and feels like trying to talk with a BLM activist. Too much in the way of slogans and not enough measured thinking because the objective is not analysis but taking down China a notch.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Y’know, I cannot buy you a drink or explain to you the significance of the Terry Reid version of Walk Away Renee, but sie recht haben: muzzies are a giant pain in the ass but they are a general pain in the ass; there exist good mizzies; China however is the enemy. I could talk past Steve’s capacity for banning about how much I hate the Company, but insofar as they actually somehow manage to get that Beijing is the enemy I am their cheerleader.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @J.Ross

    That's the point. China is regarded as the enemy no matter what it does, so all sorts of distortion, misrepresentation, misinformation, lies, and propaganda are going to be marshaled against it. Moreover, China has no way of competing against US cultural and media elites in the soft power arena. They're not sophisticated and savvy enough, and they're not clued into the minds of ordinary Americans. Their only options are a tit-for-tat response to the US's promotion of anti-majoritarian, secessionist, insurrectionist politics in China with the support and promotion of minority sectarian, separatist, and insurrectionist politics and movements in the US like Black Lives Matters and other minority groups, coupled with a focus on hard power, since the sort of atrocity propaganda increasingly being promoted by the US is usually the stuff seen in the prelude to war.

    Replies: @Jane Plain

  112. Ya grow 13 tons, whattaya get? Another day balder and deeper in debt…
    St. Peter don’t ya call me cause I can’t go, I owe my hair to the company store…

    • LOL: Jane Plain
  113. @Reg Cæsar
    @australianbrainsize1325cchehe

    小鸭子在讽刺和英语方面要好得多。

    您的政治委员将收到我们的来信。

    Replies: @nebulafox, @australianbrainsize1325cchehe

    yup your ass was whipped in BEI-JING

  114. @d dan
    @Jane Plain



    "Uighur celebrities in mainstream China,"
     
    "Can you name one? This is interesting."
     
    Sorry. All info below are in Chinese.

    Look at this short video for a quick summary of famous Uighur actresses in Chinese movies/TV:
    https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Wa4y1i7SS?from=search&seid=88171435084919964

    Individual links of actress:
    Actress: 古力娜扎(Gulnazar)
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%8F%A4%E5%8A%9B%E5%A8%9C%E6%89%8E

    Actress: 迪丽热巴(Dilraba)
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%BF%AA%E4%B8%BD%E7%83%AD%E5%B7%B4

    Actress: 穆克代斯·库尔班
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%BB%A3%E6%96%AF/13826056?fromtitle=%E7%A9%86%E5%85%8B%E4%BB%A3%E6%96%AF%C2%B7%E5%BA%93%E5%B0%94%E7%8F%AD&fromid=23186894

    Actress: 麦迪娜(Madina)
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E9%BA%A6%E8%BF%AA%E5%A8%9C?fromtitle=%E9%BA%A6%E8%BF%AA%E5%A8%9C%C2%B7%E4%B9%B0%E4%B9%B0%E6%8F%90&fromid=10103837

    Hot internet search:
    https://search.bilibili.com/all?keyword=%E7%BB%B4%E5%90%BE%E5%B0%94%E6%97%8F%E7%BE%8E%E5%A5%B3&from_source=nav_search_new

    Replies: @Jane Plain, @Jane Plain

    Thank you!

    Happy Fourth!

  115. anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross
    @anonymous

    Y'know, I cannot buy you a drink or explain to you the significance of the Terry Reid version of Walk Away Renee, but sie recht haben: muzzies are a giant pain in the ass but they are a general pain in the ass; there exist good mizzies; China however is the enemy. I could talk past Steve's capacity for banning about how much I hate the Company, but insofar as they actually somehow manage to get that Beijing is the enemy I am their cheerleader.

    Replies: @anonymous

    That’s the point. China is regarded as the enemy no matter what it does, so all sorts of distortion, misrepresentation, misinformation, lies, and propaganda are going to be marshaled against it. Moreover, China has no way of competing against US cultural and media elites in the soft power arena. They’re not sophisticated and savvy enough, and they’re not clued into the minds of ordinary Americans. Their only options are a tit-for-tat response to the US’s promotion of anti-majoritarian, secessionist, insurrectionist politics in China with the support and promotion of minority sectarian, separatist, and insurrectionist politics and movements in the US like Black Lives Matters and other minority groups, coupled with a focus on hard power, since the sort of atrocity propaganda increasingly being promoted by the US is usually the stuff seen in the prelude to war.

    • Replies: @Jane Plain
    @anonymous


    Moreover, China has no way of competing against US cultural and media elites in the soft power arena.

     

    What are you two guys talking about? Can you dumb it down for a normie?
  116. @Jack D
    @Anonymous

    Did she personally shove food up Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's ass? I sure hope so because he richly deserves it. A hot poker would have been even better.

    If she really did, this is a real plus mark in my book. Maybe she is a Muslim but she isn't a terrorist sympathizer like Barwick. Or maybe she was just present at the base in a completely unrelated capacity and Barwick is trying to tar her thru guilt by association?

    Replies: @Boy the way Glenn Miller played

    Did she personally shove food up Khalid Sheikh Mohammed’s ass? I sure hope so because he richly deserves it. A hot poker would have been even better

    .

    I would have preferred her to use a rack of St. Louis style spare ribs.

  117. @d dan
    @Jane Plain



    "Uighur celebrities in mainstream China,"
     
    "Can you name one? This is interesting."
     
    Sorry. All info below are in Chinese.

    Look at this short video for a quick summary of famous Uighur actresses in Chinese movies/TV:
    https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Wa4y1i7SS?from=search&seid=88171435084919964

    Individual links of actress:
    Actress: 古力娜扎(Gulnazar)
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%8F%A4%E5%8A%9B%E5%A8%9C%E6%89%8E

    Actress: 迪丽热巴(Dilraba)
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E8%BF%AA%E4%B8%BD%E7%83%AD%E5%B7%B4

    Actress: 穆克代斯·库尔班
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%BB%A3%E6%96%AF/13826056?fromtitle=%E7%A9%86%E5%85%8B%E4%BB%A3%E6%96%AF%C2%B7%E5%BA%93%E5%B0%94%E7%8F%AD&fromid=23186894

    Actress: 麦迪娜(Madina)
    https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E9%BA%A6%E8%BF%AA%E5%A8%9C?fromtitle=%E9%BA%A6%E8%BF%AA%E5%A8%9C%C2%B7%E4%B9%B0%E4%B9%B0%E6%8F%90&fromid=10103837

    Hot internet search:
    https://search.bilibili.com/all?keyword=%E7%BB%B4%E5%90%BE%E5%B0%94%E6%97%8F%E7%BE%8E%E5%A5%B3&from_source=nav_search_new

    Replies: @Jane Plain, @Jane Plain

    Thanks – I looked up Uighur celebs on my own. I’m actually surprised at how Chinese they look, with a little something “extra.”

  118. @anonymous
    @J.Ross

    That's the point. China is regarded as the enemy no matter what it does, so all sorts of distortion, misrepresentation, misinformation, lies, and propaganda are going to be marshaled against it. Moreover, China has no way of competing against US cultural and media elites in the soft power arena. They're not sophisticated and savvy enough, and they're not clued into the minds of ordinary Americans. Their only options are a tit-for-tat response to the US's promotion of anti-majoritarian, secessionist, insurrectionist politics in China with the support and promotion of minority sectarian, separatist, and insurrectionist politics and movements in the US like Black Lives Matters and other minority groups, coupled with a focus on hard power, since the sort of atrocity propaganda increasingly being promoted by the US is usually the stuff seen in the prelude to war.

    Replies: @Jane Plain

    Moreover, China has no way of competing against US cultural and media elites in the soft power arena.

    What are you two guys talking about? Can you dumb it down for a normie?

  119. @nebulafox
    @Anonymous

    The thing to get about Russia is that it has been a multiracial place for far longer than any Western country: or even China, given that the Uighurs and related peoples were annexed under the Qing. By the time of the big expansion into the Caucasus, Poland, into Siberia, etc, the Tsars already had a prominent Muslim minority after their late medieval conquests, and a smaller but high octane German minority that roughly played the same role in Tsarist Russia that ethnic Chinese did in modern Southeast Asia. For most of the empire's history, both the Muslims (something that would shock people here) and the Germans proved to be far more loyal to the empire and would identify as Russian than later additions such as the Poles or Jews would.

    Because of this, the Russians have a lot of experience with encouraging Russian social identification, including the prized status of the Orthodox religion, while simultaneously making sure to avoid making it about race. The Tsars had to thread this needle: there really wasn't any other way of governing in an era before things like Russification were possible. This isn't to say that a racial idea of Russian nationalism doesn't exist, it does and has since the late Tsarist period, but it never really took off among the "mainstream right", if that makes sense. This takes place even today: one recently dead Red Army era commander who both Putin and Xi admired was an ethnically Tartar Sunni Muslim, another member of Putin's inner circle is half-Tuvan.

    Put more crudely, "Russian-ness" is not being the same as being an ethnic Russian. I remember one Tsarist officer who made a joke along the lines of his father being a Lutheran German and his mother being a Buddhist Kalmyk, so of course, he's an Orthodox Russian, or something like that.

    >I can’t imagine this is very palatable to right wingers who believe in racial/cultural purity or leftists who believe in diversity, multiculturalism and the rights of minorities.

    Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. Putin himself is no alt-righter: as I've mentioned, mostly Muslim mass immigration from Central Asia into Russia is a thing. This would massively disappoint both the US Left, determined to make him into the International Mastermind of White Supremacy, and his alt-right fanboys both in the US and in Europe. If anything, modern China comes closer to what the alt-right wants with their new demographic engineering policies, though it still falls short: minorities do get AA benefits in China, including educational opportunities. And as I've mentioned, the real reason for the strife in Xinjiang is because of a non-trivial separatist insurgency threat there... and it isn't as if mass Han settlement in Xinjiang is new.

    What if you are right winger who despises Diversity Inc and wants to at least acknowledge the possibility of racial differences, but also has no time for racialist nonsense about "peaceful ethnic separation" and believes that culture ultimately trumps race? I'd like to think I'm not the only political hobo out there.

    Replies: @Jane Plain

    True. I don’t know near enough about this as you do, but I’ve done a bit of reading about the Russian cultural pre-Revolutionary world, and I was always surprised at how multi-ethnic it was. Lenin was part Kalmyk, Pushkin fractionally African, Nureyev was a Muslim Bashkir, Balanchine half-Georgian, 1/4 German, Stravinsky was Polish….all “Russian.”

    Since you seem to know some Russian history may I ask you a question? Why do they not obsess over serfdom the way Americans do over slavery?

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @Jane Plain

    I intended to leave here with 3,000 comments, but I'll go ahead and answer this. First: I'd really, really recommend going over to Karlin's blog for anything Russia-related. He and some of his commentators, being, well, actual Russians, are far more informed and knowledgeable than I am.

    That being said, I'll give my (uninformed) guesses:

    1) Serfdom wasn't based on something as visible as race, nor did Russia fight a civil war over the institution. Alexander II signed the decree, and that was that. Former serfs did owe money to their landlords, among other injustices, but there was no equivalent to stuff like Jim Crow or the KKK designed specifically to humiliate or terrorize former serfs, to the best of my knowledge.

    2) A lot of children of liberated serfs who dreamed bigger dreams ended up migrating to the rapidly expanding industrial centers during the last decades of Tsarist rule, Great Migration style-where many would be radicalized and become the basis of the New Soviet Man that formed the backbone of orthodox Communism. Communism is dead as a dodo these days. Notions of black pride are not. Those that were left in the countryside did have some of their grievances addressed by Stolypin's land reform policies, and while the Bolsheviks did struggle immensely at first with peasant loyalty during the civil war (look up the Tambov Rebellion), over time most peasants did come to identify with the regime with as strong of a loyalty that they felt toward the Tsars.

    3) At risk of sounding glib: the former USSR has been through far more awful things in the late 19th and 20th Centuries than most Americans can imagine. They've got plenty of other tragedies to cover, and enough modern day Russians are descendants of serfs that it isn't that much of a distinction. I'm sure there are plenty of highly skilled scientists and coders in the US from the former USSR who had serf ancestors.

    4) Finally: worth pointing out a lot of foreigners find America's myopic obsessions with race/gender/sexuality utterly ridiculous. I've never been to Russia, so you can to some degree discount what I say about the place without outside confirmation. But I do know East and Southeast Asia relatively well: not on the level of some other commentators here, but enough that I can confirm that PC isn't registering much beyond a few college kids.

    Replies: @nebulafox

  120. @Jane Plain
    @nebulafox

    True. I don't know near enough about this as you do, but I've done a bit of reading about the Russian cultural pre-Revolutionary world, and I was always surprised at how multi-ethnic it was. Lenin was part Kalmyk, Pushkin fractionally African, Nureyev was a Muslim Bashkir, Balanchine half-Georgian, 1/4 German, Stravinsky was Polish....all "Russian."

    Since you seem to know some Russian history may I ask you a question? Why do they not obsess over serfdom the way Americans do over slavery?

    Replies: @nebulafox

    I intended to leave here with 3,000 comments, but I’ll go ahead and answer this. First: I’d really, really recommend going over to Karlin’s blog for anything Russia-related. He and some of his commentators, being, well, actual Russians, are far more informed and knowledgeable than I am.

    That being said, I’ll give my (uninformed) guesses:

    1) Serfdom wasn’t based on something as visible as race, nor did Russia fight a civil war over the institution. Alexander II signed the decree, and that was that. Former serfs did owe money to their landlords, among other injustices, but there was no equivalent to stuff like Jim Crow or the KKK designed specifically to humiliate or terrorize former serfs, to the best of my knowledge.

    2) A lot of children of liberated serfs who dreamed bigger dreams ended up migrating to the rapidly expanding industrial centers during the last decades of Tsarist rule, Great Migration style-where many would be radicalized and become the basis of the New Soviet Man that formed the backbone of orthodox Communism. Communism is dead as a dodo these days. Notions of black pride are not. Those that were left in the countryside did have some of their grievances addressed by Stolypin’s land reform policies, and while the Bolsheviks did struggle immensely at first with peasant loyalty during the civil war (look up the Tambov Rebellion), over time most peasants did come to identify with the regime with as strong of a loyalty that they felt toward the Tsars.

    3) At risk of sounding glib: the former USSR has been through far more awful things in the late 19th and 20th Centuries than most Americans can imagine. They’ve got plenty of other tragedies to cover, and enough modern day Russians are descendants of serfs that it isn’t that much of a distinction. I’m sure there are plenty of highly skilled scientists and coders in the US from the former USSR who had serf ancestors.

    4) Finally: worth pointing out a lot of foreigners find America’s myopic obsessions with race/gender/sexuality utterly ridiculous. I’ve never been to Russia, so you can to some degree discount what I say about the place without outside confirmation. But I do know East and Southeast Asia relatively well: not on the level of some other commentators here, but enough that I can confirm that PC isn’t registering much beyond a few college kids.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    @nebulafox

    >I’m sure there are plenty of highly skilled scientists and coders in the US from the former USSR who had serf ancestors.

    As an afterthought, this is probably also a factor. Many of the grandchildren and great-grandchildren in the Soviet Union become professionals. The degree of upward social mobility was not mirrored by black people in the US: not that there wasn't any upward mobility at all, but there was nothing on the scale of the great-grandchilden of serfs launching Sputnik into space. There's no denying the fact that slavery is going to remain salient in historical memory in a way serfdom doesn't because of that.

    Replies: @Jane Plain

  121. @nebulafox
    @Jane Plain

    I intended to leave here with 3,000 comments, but I'll go ahead and answer this. First: I'd really, really recommend going over to Karlin's blog for anything Russia-related. He and some of his commentators, being, well, actual Russians, are far more informed and knowledgeable than I am.

    That being said, I'll give my (uninformed) guesses:

    1) Serfdom wasn't based on something as visible as race, nor did Russia fight a civil war over the institution. Alexander II signed the decree, and that was that. Former serfs did owe money to their landlords, among other injustices, but there was no equivalent to stuff like Jim Crow or the KKK designed specifically to humiliate or terrorize former serfs, to the best of my knowledge.

    2) A lot of children of liberated serfs who dreamed bigger dreams ended up migrating to the rapidly expanding industrial centers during the last decades of Tsarist rule, Great Migration style-where many would be radicalized and become the basis of the New Soviet Man that formed the backbone of orthodox Communism. Communism is dead as a dodo these days. Notions of black pride are not. Those that were left in the countryside did have some of their grievances addressed by Stolypin's land reform policies, and while the Bolsheviks did struggle immensely at first with peasant loyalty during the civil war (look up the Tambov Rebellion), over time most peasants did come to identify with the regime with as strong of a loyalty that they felt toward the Tsars.

    3) At risk of sounding glib: the former USSR has been through far more awful things in the late 19th and 20th Centuries than most Americans can imagine. They've got plenty of other tragedies to cover, and enough modern day Russians are descendants of serfs that it isn't that much of a distinction. I'm sure there are plenty of highly skilled scientists and coders in the US from the former USSR who had serf ancestors.

    4) Finally: worth pointing out a lot of foreigners find America's myopic obsessions with race/gender/sexuality utterly ridiculous. I've never been to Russia, so you can to some degree discount what I say about the place without outside confirmation. But I do know East and Southeast Asia relatively well: not on the level of some other commentators here, but enough that I can confirm that PC isn't registering much beyond a few college kids.

    Replies: @nebulafox

    >I’m sure there are plenty of highly skilled scientists and coders in the US from the former USSR who had serf ancestors.

    As an afterthought, this is probably also a factor. Many of the grandchildren and great-grandchildren in the Soviet Union become professionals. The degree of upward social mobility was not mirrored by black people in the US: not that there wasn’t any upward mobility at all, but there was nothing on the scale of the great-grandchilden of serfs launching Sputnik into space. There’s no denying the fact that slavery is going to remain salient in historical memory in a way serfdom doesn’t because of that.

    • Replies: @Jane Plain
    @nebulafox

    Thanks - and sorry to make you break your promise to self!

    I was half-hoping you'd say something like, "What makes you think that underneath it all, they do not think of serfdom the way we think of slavery?" but no, you confirmed my suspicions. They really don't, it's over, and that's that.

    Advantage despotism.

    And disadvantage transporting a large population of racially different people to do your dirty work. Worse than a crime.

    PS re: coders, etc. Three of Chekhov's grandparents were serfs!

  122. @nebulafox
    @nebulafox

    >I’m sure there are plenty of highly skilled scientists and coders in the US from the former USSR who had serf ancestors.

    As an afterthought, this is probably also a factor. Many of the grandchildren and great-grandchildren in the Soviet Union become professionals. The degree of upward social mobility was not mirrored by black people in the US: not that there wasn't any upward mobility at all, but there was nothing on the scale of the great-grandchilden of serfs launching Sputnik into space. There's no denying the fact that slavery is going to remain salient in historical memory in a way serfdom doesn't because of that.

    Replies: @Jane Plain

    Thanks – and sorry to make you break your promise to self!

    I was half-hoping you’d say something like, “What makes you think that underneath it all, they do not think of serfdom the way we think of slavery?” but no, you confirmed my suspicions. They really don’t, it’s over, and that’s that.

    Advantage despotism.

    And disadvantage transporting a large population of racially different people to do your dirty work. Worse than a crime.

    PS re: coders, etc. Three of Chekhov’s grandparents were serfs!

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