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The Wonderlic is a 12 minute 50 question IQ test used by various employers, including the National Football League ever since Tom Landry, famous coach of the Dallas Cowboys, decided it would be useful to know IQs of potential draft selections.

From Sporting News:

Wonderlic test scores of 2018 NFL Draft QBs leaked

Jordan Heck @jordanheckff Updated at 9:02 a.m. ET

The Combine is a huge part of the NFL Draft process for prospects, and in addition to position drills and basic athletic testing, prospects are asked to take the Wonderlic test. The scores of these tests are supposed to remain private, but every year some of them get leaked.

This year, most of the quarterback scores have been made public by former NFL scout John Middlekauff. He listed off the scores on a recent Fox Sports Radio podcast appearance on “The Herd With Colin Cowherd.”

Here’s what he claims are the scores:

Wonderlic scores for 2018 QBs
Josh Allen: 37
Josh Rosen: 29
Sam Darnold: 28
Baker Mayfield: 25
Lamar Jackson: 13

Typically, a score of 21 equates to a 100 IQ, with each additional question right equal to two more IQ points. So Wyoming QB Josh Allen’s 37 equates to 100+((37-21)*2) = 132.

There is a modest amount of evidence that some players’ agents have hacked the Wonderlic system in the past, such as one quarterback who went from a 90 IQ to a 136 IQ between the first and second times he took the test.

Interestingly, Mayfield of Oklahoma, scored highest among these five on a new Athletic Intelligence Quotient test that two researchers are promoting as being finetuned for NFL football players.

An early meeting at the 2005 Green Bay training camp between rookie quarterback Aaron Rodgers and veteran quarterback Brett Favre:

“And then, you know, Rodgers, he was just a young, cocky kid. Like they’re at a meeting one day and Rodgers says, ‘Hey Brett, what was your Wonderlic score?’ And Favre goes, ‘I don’t know.’ And Rodgers goes, ‘Oh no, I do. It was a 22. I got a 35.’ His stuff didn’t go over well.”

 
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  1. There’s another interesting model out there called QBASE: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/beating-nfl-drafting-qbs

    Their model has your man Rosen as the best value and Mayfield as the best prospect: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/beating-nfl-drafting-qbs

    What I find interesting is Jackson. His QBASE looks real good, but that Wonderlic is a huge red flag. I think I’d want to see his Raven’s results before drafting him in the first round.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I fear Josh Rosen is too skinny to avoid recurrent injury in the NFL, in the sense that breadth of his shoulders is notably less than, say, Ben Roethlisberger to name a huge man who is a possible Hall of Fame quarterback with a long career. Rosen's shoulders just aren't that broad, and there's not all that much you can do in the weight room about that.
  2. Interestingly, Mayfield of Oklahoma, scored highest among these five on a new Athletic Intelligence Quotient test that two researchers are promoting as being finetuned for NFL football players.

    The AIQ superficially seems much more sensible as a measure for football players than the verbally loaded Wonderlic. I wonder how they actually compare in predictive power though.

    Here are some details on the AIQ from the sample group report at http://athintel.weebly.com/services.html

    Full Scale Score (FS-AIQ)
    Full Scale Score (FS-AIQ) is based on a combination of all nine subtest scores and is considered the best overall estimate of intellectual functioning pertinent to professional athletics.

    Visual Memory and Retrieval (VMR)
    Visual Memory and Retrieval (VMR) assesses a person’s ability to effectively store visual information into long-term memory and then retrieve that information later through association. These tasks require athletes to form mental pictures of what they have seen and then access that information effectively later.

    Visual Processing Speed (VPS)
    Visual Processing Speed (VPS) is designed to measure an athlete’s speed and accuracy of visual
    perception and organization, simultaneous processing, and spatial scanning. Ultimately, these tasks require athletes to mentally organize visual information rapidly, under time constraint.

    Reaction Time (RT)
    Reaction Time (RT) is designed to measure the speed with which individuals can respond to the presentation of a stimulus. It also assesses an athlete’s ability to make snap judgments to detect differences or compare information. These tasks require athletes to sustain attention, concentrate, and exert mental control.

    The sample individual report has more detail on the exact subtests, but they are are in a graphic so not amenable to cut and paste.

  3. The Numinous Negro is last, and the half Jew is not first?

    Obviously, the test is racist anti-Semitism.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  4. Interestingly, Mayfield of Oklahoma, scored highest among these five on a new Athletic Intelligence Quotient test that two researchers are promoting as being finetuned for NFL football players.

    I wonder how the AIQ and Wonderlic compare in predictive power.

    Here are some details on the AIQ from the sample group report at http://athintel.weebly.com/services.html

    Full Scale Score (FS-AIQ)
    Full Scale Score (FS-AIQ) is based on a combination of all nine subtest scores and is considered the best overall estimate of intellectual functioning pertinent to professional athletics.

    Visual Memory and Retrieval (VMR)
    Visual Memory and Retrieval (VMR) assesses a person’s ability to effectively store visual information into long-term memory and then retrieve that information later through association. These tasks require athletes to form mental pictures of what they have seen and then access that information effectively later.

    Visual Processing Speed (VPS)
    Visual Processing Speed (VPS) is designed to measure an athlete’s speed and accuracy of visual
    perception and organization, simultaneous processing, and spatial scanning. Ultimately, these tasks require athletes to mentally organize visual information rapidly, under time constraint.

    Reaction Time (RT)
    Reaction Time (RT) is designed to measure the speed with which individuals can respond to the presentation of a stimulus. It also assesses an athlete’s ability to make snap judgments to detect differences or compare information. These tasks require athletes to sustain attention, concentrate, and exert mental control.

    The sample individual report has more detail on the exact subtests, but they are are in a graphic so not amenable to cut and paste.

  5. OT – I just found out that Anthony Rizzo of the Chicago Cubs went to Stoneman Douglas HS.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    The Chicago Sun-Times is constantly making a big deal of that fact.
  6. The team that fell for the Wonderlic player’s re-test (JP Losman of Tulane) was my Buffalo Bills, who moved up to take Losman in the first round of the 2004 draft.

    Losman was quite athletic, but, because it’s the Bills, was limited by second rate on field decision making.

    http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/24186/bills-gamble-on-j-p-losman-in-2004-backfired-badly

    and the results…

    https://nypost.com/2008/12/15/jaurons-bonehead-call-dooms-bills/

    Note whom the OC blames later in the article.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    As a DC throwback, you must have noticed the wild antics of the Redskins to draft RGIII. Wonder where HE came out on the totem pole of IQ? He's out now, finished. Kirk Cousins just signed with the Vikings for decent money after 5 years three or four, post RGIII. And so, where did HE stand coming out the same year as a fourth-rounder?
  7. Josh Rosen: 29

    Is this the same Josh Rosen who made an appearance on iSteve previously? (Not a sportsball follower, personally.)

  8. 1. No way this is legit. Rosen’s score should be astronomical for obvious reasons

    2. IQ is meaningless. It is biased towards white males

    3. Get educated by a compassionate intelligent gent man https://mobile.twitter.com/hankgreen

    • Replies: @Anthony Wayne
    This is too transparent — not up to your usual standard.
    , @Unladen Swallow
    Or people that hate Trump like Rosen are not as smart as they think are, that could be another explanation, we all know that's true of you, duck.
  9. @The Z Blog
    There's another interesting model out there called QBASE: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/beating-nfl-drafting-qbs

    Their model has your man Rosen as the best value and Mayfield as the best prospect: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/beating-nfl-drafting-qbs

    What I find interesting is Jackson. His QBASE looks real good, but that Wonderlic is a huge red flag. I think I'd want to see his Raven's results before drafting him in the first round.

    I fear Josh Rosen is too skinny to avoid recurrent injury in the NFL, in the sense that breadth of his shoulders is notably less than, say, Ben Roethlisberger to name a huge man who is a possible Hall of Fame quarterback with a long career. Rosen’s shoulders just aren’t that broad, and there’s not all that much you can do in the weight room about that.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Rosen’s shoulders just aren’t that broad, and there’s not all that much you can do in the weight room about that.
     
    There are other remediations for that condition.

    http://up.gc-img.net/post_img/2017/06/lV4tHHmj6sn39gx_L2SGX_12.jpeg
    , @Mis(ter)Anthrope
    That has been a major problem for Sam Bradford. I saw him in person as a high school senior and he was a tall, skinny kid. I didn't believe he could ever bulk up enough to even play at the college level.

    He did bulk up and was an outstanding college qb. But I believe his naturally slight frame has left him vulnerable to injuries throughout his career. It's sad because he is immensely talented and a genuinely good guy.
    , @Alec Leamas

    Ben Roethlisberger to name a huge man who is a possible Hall of Fame quarterback with a long career.
     
    They still commonly list him at 235 lbs, even though it is evident that he's probably around 300 lbs. Analysts did a side-by-side of Roethlisberger and Carson Wentz, projecting the younger QB against the veteran, and showing how they were identical in (listed) height and weight. It's comical to pretend that Ben is 235, particularly in comparison to Wentz at 235.

    When he gets sacked now he doesn't seem to get tackled. The lineman and linebackers just seem to wrap him up and if he can't get the ball out during the contact the officials whistle the play dead for forward progress.
    , @Jim Christian
    They have a picture out there of Brady at a draft weigh-in of some sort before the Pats drafted him in the 7th round, 2000? 1999? Anyway, he came out ok for all of his pathetic condition at the time, compared to the prototypes of the day. Some are born, but maybe the best are made.
  10. @Tiny Duck
    1. No way this is legit. Rosen's score should be astronomical for obvious reasons

    2. IQ is meaningless. It is biased towards white males

    3. Get educated by a compassionate intelligent gent man https://mobile.twitter.com/hankgreen

    This is too transparent — not up to your usual standard.

    • Agree: JMcG
  11. I am a bit confused here. I own a small engineering business. If I were to give IQ tests to potential employees I would have to spend all my time swatting lawyers away. Perhaps that’s not so. Does the NFL have some special exemption for this type of pre-employment screening?

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    Nothing illegal in administering the Wonderlic test (or variants) to potential hires. They administer the Wonderlic test (again, and variants) to previous hires before promotions, schools, continuing education and the like. The have to know you pack the intellectual gear to handle new assignments and education. I don't see anything racist about that, it's insane and destructive to look at it that way. Business has it bad enough with the crappy education systems and the product that results. Not every-damned-thing is racist.
    , @ScarletNumber
    Well I would imagine the NFL has the money to defend itself from lawsuits. Also, one could argue that the entire concept of an NFL draft violates anti-trust laws.
    , @keypusher
    Fair question. I assume the answer is that the clubs are not demonstrably making employment decisions based on the Wonderlic.

    Cyrus Mehri, a civil rights attorney, has been pushing an alternative test for the usual reasons. The Wonderlic no doubt shows the standard racial gaps.

    Today, the NFL continues to ask potential draftees to take the Wonderlic, although the test now has company. In 2013, the league introduced the Player Assessment Tool, which was developed by attorney Cyrus Mehri, whose report led to the implementation of the NFL’s Rooney Rule, and psychology professor Harold Goldstein. Louis Bien of SB Nation recently reported that the PAT is a 50-minute exam that examines a player’s football smarts, psychological attributes, learning style and motivational cues. “Players are not given a numeric score, unlike on the Wonderlic, so technically there is no way to do poorly on it,” Bien wrote.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-a-multiple-choice-test-became-a-fixture-of-the-nfl-draft/

    From another story:

    The PAT — titled as such, Mehri says, because it should be considered in the final stages of evaluation, as an extra point attempt follows a touchdown — is a 60-minute computer-based test. Of similar tests that Goldstein designed for other industries, Mehri says the PAT most resembles one developed for firefighters.

    In other words, it's another product of the disparate-impact industry.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/02/17/nfl-combine-aptitude-test/1926409/

  12. For the quarterbacks: I suggest a multiple choice test with the five boxes spread across 180 degrees of the field of view. Would be timed to the second, so that speed counts in addition to accuracy. Of course would require one of those virtual reality headsets.

    Yeah, I’m just joking. Or maybe not?

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    The folks that built fighter-simulaters are marketing 3D simulators for QBs as we speak.
  13. OT IS TRUMP WITHDRAWING SUPPORT FOR ISIS/AL-CIADA/AL-NUSRA/WHITE HELMETS/THE ARMED WING OF MSF/FSA/THE LAST BAKER?
    tp://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/30/trump-freezing-syria-funds-in-signal-us-pullback-report-says.html

  14. I Gautama tee that Lamar Jackson will be the best of the bunch and be a pro bowler

    That is if the nfls insrituutial racism doesn’t kill him

    • Replies: @Faraday's Bobcat
    I Gautama tee Lamar Jackson dsent know hw to bowl
    , @J.Ross
    spellcheck is a hell of a drug
    , @Gary in Gramercy
    "Gautama tee"?

    (Sung to the tune of "Boola Boola":)

    Buddha, Buddha, Buddha, Boo!
    Buddha, Buddha, Buddha, Boo!
    , @Giant Duck
    Is this some kind of code? Gautama tee is, what, like a shirt with a picture of the Buddha on it? And what is insrituutial racism? Finnish?

    So it's like Lamar Jackson wearing a Buddha shirt while bowling in Helsinki? Is that what you are saying?
  15. @Tiny Duck
    1. No way this is legit. Rosen's score should be astronomical for obvious reasons

    2. IQ is meaningless. It is biased towards white males

    3. Get educated by a compassionate intelligent gent man https://mobile.twitter.com/hankgreen

    Or people that hate Trump like Rosen are not as smart as they think are, that could be another explanation, we all know that’s true of you, duck.

  16. @Tiny Duck
    I Gautama tee that Lamar Jackson will be the best of the bunch and be a pro bowler

    That is if the nfls insrituutial racism doesn't kill him

    I Gautama tee Lamar Jackson dsent know hw to bowl

  17. @Tiny Duck
    I Gautama tee that Lamar Jackson will be the best of the bunch and be a pro bowler

    That is if the nfls insrituutial racism doesn't kill him

    spellcheck is a hell of a drug

  18. Anonymous[382] • Disclaimer says:

    So Lamar Jackson’s IQ is about 84 — does the conversion work with negative numbers?

    The AIQ has a long, long way to go. Validating a new psychometric instrument is a along and hard process. There are just not enough athletes who will ever take this thing to reach any solid conclusions. And it’s a commercial project that no real, disinterested researchers are going to bother with.

    Finally, the idea that there are components of IQ that are more relevant to sports doesn’t seem valid. The fundamental misconception of IQ is that it is limited to narrow areas, but in the big fat middle of the IQ spectrum, IQ, and all the components, verbal, match, spatial, and so on, all measure the same thing, the underlying g, which is more or less how good your brain works for any task.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Cleveland Browns quarterback Frank Ryan, who earned a Math Ph.D. from Rice, won an NFL championship in the pre Super Bowl 1960s. He wasn't known as being a particularly smart on-field decisionmaker, but he was known for being very brave, not releasing the ball until the perfect moment, no matter how badly he got flattened by an onrushing defender.
    , @CAL2

    Finally, the idea that there are components of IQ that are more relevant to sports doesn’t seem valid. The fundamental misconception of IQ is that it is limited to narrow areas, but in the big fat middle of the IQ spectrum, IQ, and all the components, verbal, match, spatial, and so on, all measure the same thing, the underlying g, which is more or less how good your brain works for any task.
     
    I don't know about that. Lot's of smart people aren't necessarily quick at making decisions or have good spatial abilities.

    The AIQ has a long, long way to go.
     
    Are they running it against HS QB's? I would think they could use it on them, get a broader sample, and validate their model.

    So Lamar Jackson’s IQ is about 84 — does the conversion work with negative numbers?
     
    In today's NFL, they'll put him in the QB slot because if they don't the sports press will run daily shows on how the NFL doesn't respect black quarterbacks.
  19. Anonymous [AKA "Anolnymous"] says:
    @Steve Sailer
    I fear Josh Rosen is too skinny to avoid recurrent injury in the NFL, in the sense that breadth of his shoulders is notably less than, say, Ben Roethlisberger to name a huge man who is a possible Hall of Fame quarterback with a long career. Rosen's shoulders just aren't that broad, and there's not all that much you can do in the weight room about that.

    Rosen’s shoulders just aren’t that broad, and there’s not all that much you can do in the weight room about that.

    There are other remediations for that condition.

  20. @Tiny Duck
    I Gautama tee that Lamar Jackson will be the best of the bunch and be a pro bowler

    That is if the nfls insrituutial racism doesn't kill him

    “Gautama tee”?

    (Sung to the tune of “Boola Boola”:)

    Buddha, Buddha, Buddha, Boo!
    Buddha, Buddha, Buddha, Boo!

  21. @Anonymous
    So Lamar Jackson's IQ is about 84 -- does the conversion work with negative numbers?

    The AIQ has a long, long way to go. Validating a new psychometric instrument is a along and hard process. There are just not enough athletes who will ever take this thing to reach any solid conclusions. And it's a commercial project that no real, disinterested researchers are going to bother with.

    Finally, the idea that there are components of IQ that are more relevant to sports doesn't seem valid. The fundamental misconception of IQ is that it is limited to narrow areas, but in the big fat middle of the IQ spectrum, IQ, and all the components, verbal, match, spatial, and so on, all measure the same thing, the underlying g, which is more or less how good your brain works for any task.

    Cleveland Browns quarterback Frank Ryan, who earned a Math Ph.D. from Rice, won an NFL championship in the pre Super Bowl 1960s. He wasn’t known as being a particularly smart on-field decisionmaker, but he was known for being very brave, not releasing the ball until the perfect moment, no matter how badly he got flattened by an onrushing defender.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    I think Ryan taught at Yale. 1964 was one of the rare off-years for Lombardi's Packers. The Baltimore Colts won the Western Division of the pre-merger NFL. The Colts and the great Unitas proceeded to get ambushed and thoroughly thrashed by Ryan's Browns in the championship game even though the Browns were underdogs. The next year the Ryan's Browns got whipped by Lombardi's Packers in what would be Jim Brown's final game as a pro--which speaks to how great those Packer teams were in those days. Ryan and Bart Starr were similar in style. If Ryan had been Lombardi's qb instead of Starr, Ryan would've gone to Canton

    One of the greatest lines of all time was penned by the late Red Smith of the NY Times who once wrote that the Browns offense consisted of one guy who understood Einstein's theory of relativity and ten who didn't know there even was one!

    , @David In TN
    That was the description of Frank Ryan Browns DB Bernie Parrish gave in his book. I remember Ryan hitting Gary Collins with TD passes on a crossing pattern. They connected for three TDs in the Browns 27-0 victory over the Colts in the 1964 NFL Championship game.

    The Browns blowout win in retrospect may be a bigger surprise than Super Bowl III.
  22. @Steve Sailer
    I fear Josh Rosen is too skinny to avoid recurrent injury in the NFL, in the sense that breadth of his shoulders is notably less than, say, Ben Roethlisberger to name a huge man who is a possible Hall of Fame quarterback with a long career. Rosen's shoulders just aren't that broad, and there's not all that much you can do in the weight room about that.

    That has been a major problem for Sam Bradford. I saw him in person as a high school senior and he was a tall, skinny kid. I didn’t believe he could ever bulk up enough to even play at the college level.

    He did bulk up and was an outstanding college qb. But I believe his naturally slight frame has left him vulnerable to injuries throughout his career. It’s sad because he is immensely talented and a genuinely good guy.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Bradford, a Heisman winner at the U. of Oklahoma, is an interesting data point in the Elizabeth Warren discussion. He actually looks kind of American Indian. He says he's only 1/16th Cherokee.

    It's quite possible Warren is a tiny amount Indian but doesn't look it.

  23. @Mis(ter)Anthrope
    That has been a major problem for Sam Bradford. I saw him in person as a high school senior and he was a tall, skinny kid. I didn't believe he could ever bulk up enough to even play at the college level.

    He did bulk up and was an outstanding college qb. But I believe his naturally slight frame has left him vulnerable to injuries throughout his career. It's sad because he is immensely talented and a genuinely good guy.

    Bradford, a Heisman winner at the U. of Oklahoma, is an interesting data point in the Elizabeth Warren discussion. He actually looks kind of American Indian. He says he’s only 1/16th Cherokee.

    It’s quite possible Warren is a tiny amount Indian but doesn’t look it.

    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    The first time I saw Bradford I thought for sure he was close to 100% Native American. In fact I thought he bore a strong resemblance to the popular full-blooded Cherokee actor Wes Studi (who can currently be seen in “Hostiles”). So I was a bit shocked to learn that he was only 1/16th. I’m guessing that’s only the part that can be definitely traced. I’m sure that being from Oklahoma, there are probably other branches in his family tree that have a fair amount of native blood.
    , @Mis(ter)Anthrope
    A lot of Oklahoman do have at least a small portion of native blood. I doubt Warren is one of them. The Cherokees are one of the most liberal tribes in allowing people to enroll with very little Cherokee blood.

    And contrary to what Warren says, there is no social stigma to being part native in Oklahoma. Even hard core rednecks will willingly claim it with no shame.

    Plus, a simple DNA test could prove her claim. I'm sure she has taken the test in hopes of disproving her critics.
    , @Jake
    Whites from the South - meaning long lineage from the South - having Indian blood is usually quite a different than whites from other parts of the US having Indian blood. The reason is that Indian traders in the South, going back to the mid-117th century, routinely took Indian wives and fathered children. That was true even of Indian traders who already were married. Many of the subsequent, say 19th century, marriages between whites and Indians in the South were whites marrying quarter or half or even three quarters white members of a tribe.

    And some of those mostly white products of inter-marriage remained in the tribes. Cherokee chief John Ross had red hair and blue eyes; he could have passed among his Highland distant kin as pure Scottish. Creek chief Alexander McGillivray had hair that bleached blonde in the summer sun, and his eyes were variously described as green, gray, and even blue.

    It is possible that Elizabeth Warren is a tiny bit Indian and does not look it.

    Of course, the odds are greater that she has at least 1 Confederate soldier ancestor, which knowledge could drive her toward suicide. What is possible is that she had a Cherokee ancestor who fought under Cherokee Confederate General Stand Watie and who owned black slaves.
  24. Anonymous[382] • Disclaimer says:

    Intelligence researcher talking in the article linked to from the Sporting News article about the Wonderlic:

    All of the [medical] students at Harvard have grades that go through the roof,

    How about their MCATs?

    … just as the combine invitees have extraordinary athletic skills. But do they also have those other factors that will help them become the next great surgeon?

    Like not being black?

    Do they have that other something that makes them more likely to become the next Peyton Manning rather than the next Ryan Leaf?

    Smart move, picking two white examples, rather than a white and black example.

    • Replies: @David In TN
    "Smart move, picking two white examples, rather than a white and black example."

    He didn't say "the next Aaron Rodgers rather than the next Vince Young," did he?
  25. “Cleveland Browns quarterback Frank Ryan, who earned a Math Ph.D. from Rice, won an NFL championship in the pre Super Bowl 1960s. He wasn’t known as being a particularly smart on-field decisionmaker, but he was known for being very brave, not releasing the ball until the perfect moment, no matter how badly he got flattened by an onrushing defender.”

    Eh, if still living, wonder what his brain is like now.

    • Replies: @Mark Roulo
    "Eh, if still living, wonder what his brain is like now."

    Wikipedia has a page on him. At 78 his brain seems fine.
    , @CJ
    He’s now 81 and retired, but his football career does not seem to have affected his brain. He really does appear to be possibly the smartest guy ever to play pro football. A quick excerpt from his Wikipedia entry, under the heading of Post-NFL Career:


    Soon after his retirement from the Redskins, Ryan remained in the nation's capital when he was named Director of Information Services for the U.S. House of Representatives. While there, he helped advance the computer age in politics by playing an integral role in establishing the body's first electronic voting system. This enabled voting procedures that usually ran for 45 minutes to be shortened to around 15 minutes. By the time he left the post, the office had an annual budget of eight million dollars with a staff of 225.[12]

    Ryan resigned that post to become athletic director and lecturer in mathematics at Yale University on March 7, 1977. Ryan served in that position for ten years before resigning to become the school's Associate Vice President for Institutional Planning.

    He was a member of the Rice Board of Governors from 1972 to 1976, and Ryan was recognized as a distinguished alumnus in 1987. Ryan became vice president for external affairs at Rice in August 1990, increasing annual gifts to the university to a three-year average of $32.8 million for the fiscal years 1992–94 from $21.4 million for the fiscal years 1988–90. In 1995, he resigned his post as vice president for external affairs at Rice, owing to differences with President Malcolm Gillis concerning the future course of external affairs. Ryan ended his institutional career as a professor of mathematics, and professor of computational and applied mathematics at Rice.[13]

    Ryan was president and chief executive officer of Contex Electronics, which designed and manufactured cable and interconnect products for the computer and communications industries. Ryan also served as director for America West Airlines, Sequoia Voting Systems,[14] and of Danielson Holding Corporation. He was an advisory director of United Medical Care Inc.

    Now retired, Ryan lives on 78 acres of heavily forested land[15] in Grafton, Vermont with his wife, Joan, a retired sportswriter and nationally syndicated columnist for the Washington Post.[3] One of the first female sportswriters to ever grace a locker room, his wife (not to be confused with another sportswriter named Joan Ryan)[16][17] and Ryan stayed married since their senior year at Rice, 52 years earlier.[10] In retirement, he now runs a sophisticated self-designed program that helps micro-analyze statistical behavior of the up-and-down pricing movement that underlies the pricing behavior of the futures market. He is also doing work on Oppermann's conjecture about the distribution of prime numbers.[3]

     

    , @David
    As of two years ago, he was fine. He introduced himself to me at the post office as a stock market analyst (not his exact words), and ask for some excel help. I only learned through my boss, a Redskins fan, that he once played football. He printed his name and number on a shred of paper that is still floating around on my desk if anyone wants it.
  26. Question for sports stats experts. Any research on how well Wonderlick predicts career performance in the NFL? We know that IQ predicts success across a wide range of jobs, so it’d be interesting to see if that extends to professional athletes.

    • Replies: @Danindc
    Great QBs have high Wunderlich’s. There are some exceptions (Marino mainly). It’s definitely more important than their 40 time.

    Jackson won’t make it as qb in nfl. Very similar to RG3 who was s disaster personally and professionally. A score of 13 virtually guarantees he can’t read a defense.
  27. anonymous[130] • Disclaimer says:

    The sole “Person of Color” is dead last. No surprises there. Guess who’s probably first in the 40 though.

  28. anonymous[130] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Cleveland Browns quarterback Frank Ryan, who earned a Math Ph.D. from Rice, won an NFL championship in the pre Super Bowl 1960s. He wasn't known as being a particularly smart on-field decisionmaker, but he was known for being very brave, not releasing the ball until the perfect moment, no matter how badly he got flattened by an onrushing defender.

    I think Ryan taught at Yale. 1964 was one of the rare off-years for Lombardi’s Packers. The Baltimore Colts won the Western Division of the pre-merger NFL. The Colts and the great Unitas proceeded to get ambushed and thoroughly thrashed by Ryan’s Browns in the championship game even though the Browns were underdogs. The next year the Ryan’s Browns got whipped by Lombardi’s Packers in what would be Jim Brown’s final game as a pro–which speaks to how great those Packer teams were in those days. Ryan and Bart Starr were similar in style. If Ryan had been Lombardi’s qb instead of Starr, Ryan would’ve gone to Canton

    One of the greatest lines of all time was penned by the late Red Smith of the NY Times who once wrote that the Browns offense consisted of one guy who understood Einstein’s theory of relativity and ten who didn’t know there even was one!

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    "1964 was one of the rare off-years for Lombardi’s Packers. "

    '64 was the year Paul Hornung returned from his one year gambling suspension.

  29. @Steve Sailer
    Bradford, a Heisman winner at the U. of Oklahoma, is an interesting data point in the Elizabeth Warren discussion. He actually looks kind of American Indian. He says he's only 1/16th Cherokee.

    It's quite possible Warren is a tiny amount Indian but doesn't look it.

    The first time I saw Bradford I thought for sure he was close to 100% Native American. In fact I thought he bore a strong resemblance to the popular full-blooded Cherokee actor Wes Studi (who can currently be seen in “Hostiles”). So I was a bit shocked to learn that he was only 1/16th. I’m guessing that’s only the part that can be definitely traced. I’m sure that being from Oklahoma, there are probably other branches in his family tree that have a fair amount of native blood.

    • Replies: @Mis(ter)Anthrope
    I am from Oklahoma and I would guess that you are correct.
  30. @Steve Sailer
    I fear Josh Rosen is too skinny to avoid recurrent injury in the NFL, in the sense that breadth of his shoulders is notably less than, say, Ben Roethlisberger to name a huge man who is a possible Hall of Fame quarterback with a long career. Rosen's shoulders just aren't that broad, and there's not all that much you can do in the weight room about that.

    Ben Roethlisberger to name a huge man who is a possible Hall of Fame quarterback with a long career.

    They still commonly list him at 235 lbs, even though it is evident that he’s probably around 300 lbs. Analysts did a side-by-side of Roethlisberger and Carson Wentz, projecting the younger QB against the veteran, and showing how they were identical in (listed) height and weight. It’s comical to pretend that Ben is 235, particularly in comparison to Wentz at 235.

    When he gets sacked now he doesn’t seem to get tackled. The lineman and linebackers just seem to wrap him up and if he can’t get the ball out during the contact the officials whistle the play dead for forward progress.

    • Replies: @bartok
    isn't muscle heavier than fat - Carson vs Ben
  31. @Hapalong Cassidy
    The first time I saw Bradford I thought for sure he was close to 100% Native American. In fact I thought he bore a strong resemblance to the popular full-blooded Cherokee actor Wes Studi (who can currently be seen in “Hostiles”). So I was a bit shocked to learn that he was only 1/16th. I’m guessing that’s only the part that can be definitely traced. I’m sure that being from Oklahoma, there are probably other branches in his family tree that have a fair amount of native blood.

    I am from Oklahoma and I would guess that you are correct.

  32. @Steve Sailer
    Bradford, a Heisman winner at the U. of Oklahoma, is an interesting data point in the Elizabeth Warren discussion. He actually looks kind of American Indian. He says he's only 1/16th Cherokee.

    It's quite possible Warren is a tiny amount Indian but doesn't look it.

    A lot of Oklahoman do have at least a small portion of native blood. I doubt Warren is one of them. The Cherokees are one of the most liberal tribes in allowing people to enroll with very little Cherokee blood.

    And contrary to what Warren says, there is no social stigma to being part native in Oklahoma. Even hard core rednecks will willingly claim it with no shame.

    Plus, a simple DNA test could prove her claim. I’m sure she has taken the test in hopes of disproving her critics.

  33. @DCThrowback
    The team that fell for the Wonderlic player's re-test (JP Losman of Tulane) was my Buffalo Bills, who moved up to take Losman in the first round of the 2004 draft.

    Losman was quite athletic, but, because it's the Bills, was limited by second rate on field decision making.

    http://www.espn.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/24186/bills-gamble-on-j-p-losman-in-2004-backfired-badly

    and the results...

    https://nypost.com/2008/12/15/jaurons-bonehead-call-dooms-bills/

    Note whom the OC blames later in the article.

    As a DC throwback, you must have noticed the wild antics of the Redskins to draft RGIII. Wonder where HE came out on the totem pole of IQ? He’s out now, finished. Kirk Cousins just signed with the Vikings for decent money after 5 years three or four, post RGIII. And so, where did HE stand coming out the same year as a fourth-rounder?

    • Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy
    I remember something about Griffin being an exceptional student at Baylor. Graduated in Business Admistration with a GPA closer to 4 than 3. I also got the sense from hearing him talk that he’s the kind of black guy that might be shunned by other blacks for “acting white”. He also married his college sweetheart- an attractive blonde.
  34. @Steve Sailer
    I fear Josh Rosen is too skinny to avoid recurrent injury in the NFL, in the sense that breadth of his shoulders is notably less than, say, Ben Roethlisberger to name a huge man who is a possible Hall of Fame quarterback with a long career. Rosen's shoulders just aren't that broad, and there's not all that much you can do in the weight room about that.

    They have a picture out there of Brady at a draft weigh-in of some sort before the Pats drafted him in the 7th round, 2000? 1999? Anyway, he came out ok for all of his pathetic condition at the time, compared to the prototypes of the day. Some are born, but maybe the best are made.

  35. @jJay
    I am a bit confused here. I own a small engineering business. If I were to give IQ tests to potential employees I would have to spend all my time swatting lawyers away. Perhaps that's not so. Does the NFL have some special exemption for this type of pre-employment screening?

    Nothing illegal in administering the Wonderlic test (or variants) to potential hires. They administer the Wonderlic test (again, and variants) to previous hires before promotions, schools, continuing education and the like. The have to know you pack the intellectual gear to handle new assignments and education. I don’t see anything racist about that, it’s insane and destructive to look at it that way. Business has it bad enough with the crappy education systems and the product that results. Not every-damned-thing is racist.

  36. @Luke Lea
    For the quarterbacks: I suggest a multiple choice test with the five boxes spread across 180 degrees of the field of view. Would be timed to the second, so that speed counts in addition to accuracy. Of course would require one of those virtual reality headsets.

    Yeah, I'm just joking. Or maybe not?

    The folks that built fighter-simulaters are marketing 3D simulators for QBs as we speak.

  37. @Anonymous
    So Lamar Jackson's IQ is about 84 -- does the conversion work with negative numbers?

    The AIQ has a long, long way to go. Validating a new psychometric instrument is a along and hard process. There are just not enough athletes who will ever take this thing to reach any solid conclusions. And it's a commercial project that no real, disinterested researchers are going to bother with.

    Finally, the idea that there are components of IQ that are more relevant to sports doesn't seem valid. The fundamental misconception of IQ is that it is limited to narrow areas, but in the big fat middle of the IQ spectrum, IQ, and all the components, verbal, match, spatial, and so on, all measure the same thing, the underlying g, which is more or less how good your brain works for any task.

    Finally, the idea that there are components of IQ that are more relevant to sports doesn’t seem valid. The fundamental misconception of IQ is that it is limited to narrow areas, but in the big fat middle of the IQ spectrum, IQ, and all the components, verbal, match, spatial, and so on, all measure the same thing, the underlying g, which is more or less how good your brain works for any task.

    I don’t know about that. Lot’s of smart people aren’t necessarily quick at making decisions or have good spatial abilities.

    The AIQ has a long, long way to go.

    Are they running it against HS QB’s? I would think they could use it on them, get a broader sample, and validate their model.

    So Lamar Jackson’s IQ is about 84 — does the conversion work with negative numbers?

    In today’s NFL, they’ll put him in the QB slot because if they don’t the sports press will run daily shows on how the NFL doesn’t respect black quarterbacks.

  38. @Steve Sailer
    Bradford, a Heisman winner at the U. of Oklahoma, is an interesting data point in the Elizabeth Warren discussion. He actually looks kind of American Indian. He says he's only 1/16th Cherokee.

    It's quite possible Warren is a tiny amount Indian but doesn't look it.

    Whites from the South – meaning long lineage from the South – having Indian blood is usually quite a different than whites from other parts of the US having Indian blood. The reason is that Indian traders in the South, going back to the mid-117th century, routinely took Indian wives and fathered children. That was true even of Indian traders who already were married. Many of the subsequent, say 19th century, marriages between whites and Indians in the South were whites marrying quarter or half or even three quarters white members of a tribe.

    And some of those mostly white products of inter-marriage remained in the tribes. Cherokee chief John Ross had red hair and blue eyes; he could have passed among his Highland distant kin as pure Scottish. Creek chief Alexander McGillivray had hair that bleached blonde in the summer sun, and his eyes were variously described as green, gray, and even blue.

    It is possible that Elizabeth Warren is a tiny bit Indian and does not look it.

    Of course, the odds are greater that she has at least 1 Confederate soldier ancestor, which knowledge could drive her toward suicide. What is possible is that she had a Cherokee ancestor who fought under Cherokee Confederate General Stand Watie and who owned black slaves.

  39. @Sunbeam
    "Cleveland Browns quarterback Frank Ryan, who earned a Math Ph.D. from Rice, won an NFL championship in the pre Super Bowl 1960s. He wasn’t known as being a particularly smart on-field decisionmaker, but he was known for being very brave, not releasing the ball until the perfect moment, no matter how badly he got flattened by an onrushing defender."

    Eh, if still living, wonder what his brain is like now.

    “Eh, if still living, wonder what his brain is like now.”

    Wikipedia has a page on him. At 78 his brain seems fine.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    As CJ has noted, Frank is 81.
  40. Jehu says: • Website

    The Wonderlic is a test with an extreme premium on speed. People are NOT expected to finish the test. It’s like the old ASVAB computational section in that respect. Very few people have much if any experience with that kind of test. I could believe that a person totally naive to that type of test could score a lot better in a 2nd administration of it relative to their first. What the Wonderlic rewards is the ability to quickly make decisions about which problems to solve—the identification of low hanging fruit—the ability to quickly dump problems that you could solve but would take longer than is justified by their contribution to your score —that is, good sunk cost processing and the ability to stay totally focused and ‘in the game’ during the test.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    "What the Wonderlic rewards is the ability to quickly make decisions about which problems to solve—the identification of low hanging fruit—the ability to quickly dump problems that you could solve but would take longer than is justified by their contribution to your score —that is, good sunk cost processing and the ability to stay totally focused and ‘in the game’ during the test."

    That doesn't sound all that irrelevant to being a quarterback. Aaron Rodgers (35 Wonderlic)appears better at deciding what throws are solvable than Brett Favre (22 Wonderlic) was, judging by the current Green Bay quarterback's phenomenally low interception rate.

    http://washington.cbslocal.com/2016/10/26/aaron-rodgers-once-taunted-brett-favre-about-his-wonderlic-score/

    "“And then, you know, Rodgers, he was just a young, cocky kid. Like they’re at a meeting one day and Rodgers says, ‘Hey Brett, what was your Wonderlic score?’ And Favre goes, ‘I don’t know.’ And Rodgers goes, ‘Oh no, I do. It was a 22. I got a 35.’ His stuff didn’t go over well.”"

  41. @Tiny Duck
    I Gautama tee that Lamar Jackson will be the best of the bunch and be a pro bowler

    That is if the nfls insrituutial racism doesn't kill him

    Is this some kind of code? Gautama tee is, what, like a shirt with a picture of the Buddha on it? And what is insrituutial racism? Finnish?

    So it’s like Lamar Jackson wearing a Buddha shirt while bowling in Helsinki? Is that what you are saying?

  42. Anonymous[915] • Disclaimer says:

    You know what they say–life is an IQ test. So if you haven’t figured out how to I test employees…

    Here’s a few ways: Some elite consulting firms require SAT scores.

    Some elite financial firms give hard math tests.

    You could both ask for SAT scores and give either tricky math-ish problems or, if that seems too fancy for your candidates, give reasonable engineering problems they should know how to solve–but have them do it without a calculator and time them.

    Goy, you didn’t really think the true elite abided by the IQ testing ban, did you? Harvard has GREs, Google has coding puzzles, McKinsey has SAT scores from elite college graduates only, Law firms have 1l grades, doctors have the USMLE, DE Shaw requires proof of raw intellectual horsepower before you walk in the door and they still test you…

  43. CJ says:
    @Sunbeam
    "Cleveland Browns quarterback Frank Ryan, who earned a Math Ph.D. from Rice, won an NFL championship in the pre Super Bowl 1960s. He wasn’t known as being a particularly smart on-field decisionmaker, but he was known for being very brave, not releasing the ball until the perfect moment, no matter how badly he got flattened by an onrushing defender."

    Eh, if still living, wonder what his brain is like now.

    He’s now 81 and retired, but his football career does not seem to have affected his brain. He really does appear to be possibly the smartest guy ever to play pro football. A quick excerpt from his Wikipedia entry, under the heading of Post-NFL Career:

    Soon after his retirement from the Redskins, Ryan remained in the nation’s capital when he was named Director of Information Services for the U.S. House of Representatives. While there, he helped advance the computer age in politics by playing an integral role in establishing the body’s first electronic voting system. This enabled voting procedures that usually ran for 45 minutes to be shortened to around 15 minutes. By the time he left the post, the office had an annual budget of eight million dollars with a staff of 225.[12]

    Ryan resigned that post to become athletic director and lecturer in mathematics at Yale University on March 7, 1977. Ryan served in that position for ten years before resigning to become the school’s Associate Vice President for Institutional Planning.

    He was a member of the Rice Board of Governors from 1972 to 1976, and Ryan was recognized as a distinguished alumnus in 1987. Ryan became vice president for external affairs at Rice in August 1990, increasing annual gifts to the university to a three-year average of $32.8 million for the fiscal years 1992–94 from $21.4 million for the fiscal years 1988–90. In 1995, he resigned his post as vice president for external affairs at Rice, owing to differences with President Malcolm Gillis concerning the future course of external affairs. Ryan ended his institutional career as a professor of mathematics, and professor of computational and applied mathematics at Rice.[13]

    Ryan was president and chief executive officer of Contex Electronics, which designed and manufactured cable and interconnect products for the computer and communications industries. Ryan also served as director for America West Airlines, Sequoia Voting Systems,[14] and of Danielson Holding Corporation. He was an advisory director of United Medical Care Inc.

    Now retired, Ryan lives on 78 acres of heavily forested land[15] in Grafton, Vermont with his wife, Joan, a retired sportswriter and nationally syndicated columnist for the Washington Post.[3] One of the first female sportswriters to ever grace a locker room, his wife (not to be confused with another sportswriter named Joan Ryan)[16][17] and Ryan stayed married since their senior year at Rice, 52 years earlier.[10] In retirement, he now runs a sophisticated self-designed program that helps micro-analyze statistical behavior of the up-and-down pricing movement that underlies the pricing behavior of the futures market. He is also doing work on Oppermann’s conjecture about the distribution of prime numbers.[3]

    • Replies: @Danindc
    A lot of the concussion drama is guys trying to cash in on a lawsuit.
  44. @Alec Leamas

    Ben Roethlisberger to name a huge man who is a possible Hall of Fame quarterback with a long career.
     
    They still commonly list him at 235 lbs, even though it is evident that he's probably around 300 lbs. Analysts did a side-by-side of Roethlisberger and Carson Wentz, projecting the younger QB against the veteran, and showing how they were identical in (listed) height and weight. It's comical to pretend that Ben is 235, particularly in comparison to Wentz at 235.

    When he gets sacked now he doesn't seem to get tackled. The lineman and linebackers just seem to wrap him up and if he can't get the ball out during the contact the officials whistle the play dead for forward progress.

    isn’t muscle heavier than fat – Carson vs Ben

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    Muscle is more dense but there's no way Ben is 235 at 6'5" now.
  45. @Jehu
    The Wonderlic is a test with an extreme premium on speed. People are NOT expected to finish the test. It's like the old ASVAB computational section in that respect. Very few people have much if any experience with that kind of test. I could believe that a person totally naive to that type of test could score a lot better in a 2nd administration of it relative to their first. What the Wonderlic rewards is the ability to quickly make decisions about which problems to solve---the identification of low hanging fruit---the ability to quickly dump problems that you could solve but would take longer than is justified by their contribution to your score ---that is, good sunk cost processing and the ability to stay totally focused and 'in the game' during the test.

    “What the Wonderlic rewards is the ability to quickly make decisions about which problems to solve—the identification of low hanging fruit—the ability to quickly dump problems that you could solve but would take longer than is justified by their contribution to your score —that is, good sunk cost processing and the ability to stay totally focused and ‘in the game’ during the test.”

    That doesn’t sound all that irrelevant to being a quarterback. Aaron Rodgers (35 Wonderlic)appears better at deciding what throws are solvable than Brett Favre (22 Wonderlic) was, judging by the current Green Bay quarterback’s phenomenally low interception rate.

    http://washington.cbslocal.com/2016/10/26/aaron-rodgers-once-taunted-brett-favre-about-his-wonderlic-score/

    ““And then, you know, Rodgers, he was just a young, cocky kid. Like they’re at a meeting one day and Rodgers says, ‘Hey Brett, what was your Wonderlic score?’ And Favre goes, ‘I don’t know.’ And Rodgers goes, ‘Oh no, I do. It was a 22. I got a 35.’ His stuff didn’t go over well.””

    • Replies: @Bill P
    I bet Tetris or some other version of polyominoes would be a pretty good test of that skill. Seriously. Someone ought to try it and see if it correlates with pass completion rates.
    , @ScarletNumber
    In Brett's defense, asking someone an embarrassing personal question you already know the answer to makes you a dick. Then again, Aaron has a poor reputation in that area, generally speaking.
    , @DCThrowback
    Favre was too classy to mention the all the blind items that imply Rodgers employs beards to cover for his homosexuality.
    , @Charles Pewitt

    “What the Wonderlic rewards is the ability to quickly make decisions about which problems to solve—the identification of low hanging fruit..."

     

    Montesquieu says:

    “When the savages of Louisiana are desirous of fruit, they cut the tree to the root and gather the fruit. This is an emblem of despotic government.”

    Time management? Present or future? Should I wait till he clears the linebacker to throw or chuck it and hope for the best? We'll need fruit in a year or so I bet, so let's not cut down the tree?
  46. I wonder what Joe Montana’s score was?

    He always struck me as the smartest player on the field. A Stanford grad too.

    Of course, he was well couched.

    • Replies: @Wj
    Montana is a Notre Dame graduate. He won a national championship with them as junior. I recall watching him the next year in the 1979 Cotton Bowl he led a big comeback against Houston.
    , @David In TN
    Joe Montana played college ball at Notre Dame, not Stanford.
    , @Truth
    It's funny, in interviews he seemed to come off as a moron.
  47. @Sunbeam
    "Cleveland Browns quarterback Frank Ryan, who earned a Math Ph.D. from Rice, won an NFL championship in the pre Super Bowl 1960s. He wasn’t known as being a particularly smart on-field decisionmaker, but he was known for being very brave, not releasing the ball until the perfect moment, no matter how badly he got flattened by an onrushing defender."

    Eh, if still living, wonder what his brain is like now.

    As of two years ago, he was fine. He introduced himself to me at the post office as a stock market analyst (not his exact words), and ask for some excel help. I only learned through my boss, a Redskins fan, that he once played football. He printed his name and number on a shred of paper that is still floating around on my desk if anyone wants it.

  48. @Steve Sailer
    "What the Wonderlic rewards is the ability to quickly make decisions about which problems to solve—the identification of low hanging fruit—the ability to quickly dump problems that you could solve but would take longer than is justified by their contribution to your score —that is, good sunk cost processing and the ability to stay totally focused and ‘in the game’ during the test."

    That doesn't sound all that irrelevant to being a quarterback. Aaron Rodgers (35 Wonderlic)appears better at deciding what throws are solvable than Brett Favre (22 Wonderlic) was, judging by the current Green Bay quarterback's phenomenally low interception rate.

    http://washington.cbslocal.com/2016/10/26/aaron-rodgers-once-taunted-brett-favre-about-his-wonderlic-score/

    "“And then, you know, Rodgers, he was just a young, cocky kid. Like they’re at a meeting one day and Rodgers says, ‘Hey Brett, what was your Wonderlic score?’ And Favre goes, ‘I don’t know.’ And Rodgers goes, ‘Oh no, I do. It was a 22. I got a 35.’ His stuff didn’t go over well.”"

    I bet Tetris or some other version of polyominoes would be a pretty good test of that skill. Seriously. Someone ought to try it and see if it correlates with pass completion rates.

  49. Reich:
    “I think the most important point in the article, that could’ve been emphasized a bit more, is that differences in individuals are far greater than that of populations.

    When those who use the stats of the average I.Q. justify that for racist ideologies, they seem to fail to recognize the fact that there is massive variance from the average of all races.”

    Sailer:
    “That’s why those racist ideologues Herrnstein and Murray never mention the existence of bell curves in The Bell Curve … ”

    (Kief:
    LOL.)

  50. @Jim Christian
    As a DC throwback, you must have noticed the wild antics of the Redskins to draft RGIII. Wonder where HE came out on the totem pole of IQ? He's out now, finished. Kirk Cousins just signed with the Vikings for decent money after 5 years three or four, post RGIII. And so, where did HE stand coming out the same year as a fourth-rounder?

    I remember something about Griffin being an exceptional student at Baylor. Graduated in Business Admistration with a GPA closer to 4 than 3. I also got the sense from hearing him talk that he’s the kind of black guy that might be shunned by other blacks for “acting white”. He also married his college sweetheart- an attractive blonde.

    • Replies: @penskefile
    Like someone said about Bradford, Griffin is a genuinely good guy by all indications. He was raised in a household by two parents who were both career Army NCO's. Hard not to be a solid citizen with that upbringing.

    I'm an alum/fan of another B12 school, so I hated to see Baylor's rise with Griffin, but he was an amazing college QB. In hindsight though, equal credit has to be given to his HC Briles, who achieved similar results later with much less talented QB's.

    Griffin had multiple injuries in college, so his frailty was already known before he reached the NFL and the elder Shanahan didn't do him any favors with the offense they installed. Just another example of how different the NFL game is than the NCAA and why it so critical to keep your QB healthy
    , @DCThrowback
    They later divorced, as he ended up straying. The pull of the "p" was just too strong!

    To the original question, the "failure" of RG3 has many fathers, the most certainly being his contract with Adidas and his own ego at trying to come back from an ACL tear in less than a year and not being 100%. His rookie year was one of the best in NFL history. 25TD passes, 2 INTs!

    But Mike Shanahan and the turf at Fedex Field also deserve some of the blame, too.
  51. @Hapalong Cassidy
    I remember something about Griffin being an exceptional student at Baylor. Graduated in Business Admistration with a GPA closer to 4 than 3. I also got the sense from hearing him talk that he’s the kind of black guy that might be shunned by other blacks for “acting white”. He also married his college sweetheart- an attractive blonde.

    Like someone said about Bradford, Griffin is a genuinely good guy by all indications. He was raised in a household by two parents who were both career Army NCO’s. Hard not to be a solid citizen with that upbringing.

    I’m an alum/fan of another B12 school, so I hated to see Baylor’s rise with Griffin, but he was an amazing college QB. In hindsight though, equal credit has to be given to his HC Briles, who achieved similar results later with much less talented QB’s.

    Griffin had multiple injuries in college, so his frailty was already known before he reached the NFL and the elder Shanahan didn’t do him any favors with the offense they installed. Just another example of how different the NFL game is than the NCAA and why it so critical to keep your QB healthy

  52. @Whitehall
    I wonder what Joe Montana's score was?

    He always struck me as the smartest player on the field. A Stanford grad too.

    Of course, he was well couched.

    Montana is a Notre Dame graduate. He won a national championship with them as junior. I recall watching him the next year in the 1979 Cotton Bowl he led a big comeback against Houston.

  53. @Hapalong Cassidy
    I remember something about Griffin being an exceptional student at Baylor. Graduated in Business Admistration with a GPA closer to 4 than 3. I also got the sense from hearing him talk that he’s the kind of black guy that might be shunned by other blacks for “acting white”. He also married his college sweetheart- an attractive blonde.

    They later divorced, as he ended up straying. The pull of the “p” was just too strong!

    To the original question, the “failure” of RG3 has many fathers, the most certainly being his contract with Adidas and his own ego at trying to come back from an ACL tear in less than a year and not being 100%. His rookie year was one of the best in NFL history. 25TD passes, 2 INTs!

    But Mike Shanahan and the turf at Fedex Field also deserve some of the blame, too.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    Amazing how QUIET that was. RGIII wound up in Cleveland, NFL QB graveyard. I think he was there a year. Immediately he divorced his wife back in DC, moved to Cleveland, met a 19 YO blonde that he so fell in love with he tattooed her name on his arm. Can't remember her race. They were hot shits out there for a bit. Meh, it's an old story. They can't turn down the pooze. Each is sweeter than the last and they never say no. I couldn't resist, but I wouldn't be marrying at that age, heh...

    Not sure how ancient you guys are, but RFK stadium and now Fed Ex Field in Landover, they were always a soft kind of ground, the entire DC affair is built on a swamp, almost floating, which accounts for the fierce humidity. They never had decent footing, both were 'mudders' fields where a guy like Riggins made bad days for the linebackers. RG3 needed to learn, quickly, the sort of ball control, dink-and-dunk pocket schemes that keep you upright and healthy. But he didn't have it to move around a little, find a guy fast and dump it. Every now and then, the long ball, which he threw beautifully. Great arm. But he relied on the legs, took off running too fast and after a few games, he was nicked and not such a surprise to anyone.

    Shanny and his son, who knew a thing or two about QBs knew Cousins was the real deal, likely in the mold of a Brady, but no one is Brady of course. RGIII was a "foist" because owner Snyder wanted a Black QB. We'll see, Brady turned into quite a mind. You need a fast computer in your head: Brady, Brees and Rodgers have it, Ben has it, Rivers has it. Intuition, experience and the ability to dodge with a sidestep. We'll see if Cousins really has it, but RGIII didn't. Why is that?
  54. @jJay
    I am a bit confused here. I own a small engineering business. If I were to give IQ tests to potential employees I would have to spend all my time swatting lawyers away. Perhaps that's not so. Does the NFL have some special exemption for this type of pre-employment screening?

    Well I would imagine the NFL has the money to defend itself from lawsuits. Also, one could argue that the entire concept of an NFL draft violates anti-trust laws.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    The NFL is exempt from anti-trust laws. So are most major sports, I believe.
  55. @Steve Sailer
    "What the Wonderlic rewards is the ability to quickly make decisions about which problems to solve—the identification of low hanging fruit—the ability to quickly dump problems that you could solve but would take longer than is justified by their contribution to your score —that is, good sunk cost processing and the ability to stay totally focused and ‘in the game’ during the test."

    That doesn't sound all that irrelevant to being a quarterback. Aaron Rodgers (35 Wonderlic)appears better at deciding what throws are solvable than Brett Favre (22 Wonderlic) was, judging by the current Green Bay quarterback's phenomenally low interception rate.

    http://washington.cbslocal.com/2016/10/26/aaron-rodgers-once-taunted-brett-favre-about-his-wonderlic-score/

    "“And then, you know, Rodgers, he was just a young, cocky kid. Like they’re at a meeting one day and Rodgers says, ‘Hey Brett, what was your Wonderlic score?’ And Favre goes, ‘I don’t know.’ And Rodgers goes, ‘Oh no, I do. It was a 22. I got a 35.’ His stuff didn’t go over well.”"

    In Brett’s defense, asking someone an embarrassing personal question you already know the answer to makes you a dick. Then again, Aaron has a poor reputation in that area, generally speaking.

  56. @Mark Roulo
    "Eh, if still living, wonder what his brain is like now."

    Wikipedia has a page on him. At 78 his brain seems fine.

    As CJ has noted, Frank is 81.

  57. @Steve Sailer
    Cleveland Browns quarterback Frank Ryan, who earned a Math Ph.D. from Rice, won an NFL championship in the pre Super Bowl 1960s. He wasn't known as being a particularly smart on-field decisionmaker, but he was known for being very brave, not releasing the ball until the perfect moment, no matter how badly he got flattened by an onrushing defender.

    That was the description of Frank Ryan Browns DB Bernie Parrish gave in his book. I remember Ryan hitting Gary Collins with TD passes on a crossing pattern. They connected for three TDs in the Browns 27-0 victory over the Colts in the 1964 NFL Championship game.

    The Browns blowout win in retrospect may be a bigger surprise than Super Bowl III.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber

    The Browns blowout win in retrospect may be a bigger surprise than Super Bowl III.
     
    It's amazing how the NFL has been able to reset its history with Super Bowl I. When the 49ers were going for the threepeat in 1990, people barely acknowledged that the Packers already did it from 65-67. The issue is that the first title didn't have a Super Bowl to cap it off. They also did it from 29-31, but there wasn't even a championship game back then.

    I am a Giants fan but many of my fellow fans don't realize that they went to SIX NFL championship games over the eight-year period from 1956-63, missing only 1957 where the Browns lost to the Lions' last NFL championship team and 1960 where the Eagles gave Vince Lombardi and the Packers their only playoff loss. The Giants went 1-5 in these games, with the 1956 win over the Bears preventing the Giants from being the original Vikings or Bills.

    FunFact: From 1954-58 the Giants' coordinators were Lombardi (offense) and Tom Landry (defense). Their last game as Giants coaches was The Greatest Game Ever Played. The Giants' record during this time was 37-21-2 (.633) with two Eastern Conference titles and one NFL Championship. And because it was before the Super Bowl, it was like it never happened.
    , @anonymous
    I remember the game well. Shula was thoroughly out coached by Blanton Collier and it wouldn't be the last time Shula got out coached. Unitas was bottled up completely. You may be right about the Brons
  58. @Anonymous
    Intelligence researcher talking in the article linked to from the Sporting News article about the Wonderlic:

    All of the [medical] students at Harvard have grades that go through the roof,

     

    How about their MCATs?

    ... just as the combine invitees have extraordinary athletic skills. But do they also have those other factors that will help them become the next great surgeon?

     

    Like not being black?

    Do they have that other something that makes them more likely to become the next Peyton Manning rather than the next Ryan Leaf?

     

    Smart move, picking two white examples, rather than a white and black example.

    “Smart move, picking two white examples, rather than a white and black example.”

    He didn’t say “the next Aaron Rodgers rather than the next Vince Young,” did he?

  59. @MikeatMikedotMike
    OT - I just found out that Anthony Rizzo of the Chicago Cubs went to Stoneman Douglas HS.

    The Chicago Sun-Times is constantly making a big deal of that fact.

  60. @Whitehall
    I wonder what Joe Montana's score was?

    He always struck me as the smartest player on the field. A Stanford grad too.

    Of course, he was well couched.

    Joe Montana played college ball at Notre Dame, not Stanford.

  61. @anonymous
    I think Ryan taught at Yale. 1964 was one of the rare off-years for Lombardi's Packers. The Baltimore Colts won the Western Division of the pre-merger NFL. The Colts and the great Unitas proceeded to get ambushed and thoroughly thrashed by Ryan's Browns in the championship game even though the Browns were underdogs. The next year the Ryan's Browns got whipped by Lombardi's Packers in what would be Jim Brown's final game as a pro--which speaks to how great those Packer teams were in those days. Ryan and Bart Starr were similar in style. If Ryan had been Lombardi's qb instead of Starr, Ryan would've gone to Canton

    One of the greatest lines of all time was penned by the late Red Smith of the NY Times who once wrote that the Browns offense consisted of one guy who understood Einstein's theory of relativity and ten who didn't know there even was one!

    “1964 was one of the rare off-years for Lombardi’s Packers. ”

    ’64 was the year Paul Hornung returned from his one year gambling suspension.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    Yes. They also were beaten out the year before by da Bears--George Halas's last championship (they beat the Giants).
  62. @Steve Sailer
    "What the Wonderlic rewards is the ability to quickly make decisions about which problems to solve—the identification of low hanging fruit—the ability to quickly dump problems that you could solve but would take longer than is justified by their contribution to your score —that is, good sunk cost processing and the ability to stay totally focused and ‘in the game’ during the test."

    That doesn't sound all that irrelevant to being a quarterback. Aaron Rodgers (35 Wonderlic)appears better at deciding what throws are solvable than Brett Favre (22 Wonderlic) was, judging by the current Green Bay quarterback's phenomenally low interception rate.

    http://washington.cbslocal.com/2016/10/26/aaron-rodgers-once-taunted-brett-favre-about-his-wonderlic-score/

    "“And then, you know, Rodgers, he was just a young, cocky kid. Like they’re at a meeting one day and Rodgers says, ‘Hey Brett, what was your Wonderlic score?’ And Favre goes, ‘I don’t know.’ And Rodgers goes, ‘Oh no, I do. It was a 22. I got a 35.’ His stuff didn’t go over well.”"

    Favre was too classy to mention the all the blind items that imply Rodgers employs beards to cover for his homosexuality.

  63. @Steve Sailer
    "What the Wonderlic rewards is the ability to quickly make decisions about which problems to solve—the identification of low hanging fruit—the ability to quickly dump problems that you could solve but would take longer than is justified by their contribution to your score —that is, good sunk cost processing and the ability to stay totally focused and ‘in the game’ during the test."

    That doesn't sound all that irrelevant to being a quarterback. Aaron Rodgers (35 Wonderlic)appears better at deciding what throws are solvable than Brett Favre (22 Wonderlic) was, judging by the current Green Bay quarterback's phenomenally low interception rate.

    http://washington.cbslocal.com/2016/10/26/aaron-rodgers-once-taunted-brett-favre-about-his-wonderlic-score/

    "“And then, you know, Rodgers, he was just a young, cocky kid. Like they’re at a meeting one day and Rodgers says, ‘Hey Brett, what was your Wonderlic score?’ And Favre goes, ‘I don’t know.’ And Rodgers goes, ‘Oh no, I do. It was a 22. I got a 35.’ His stuff didn’t go over well.”"

    “What the Wonderlic rewards is the ability to quickly make decisions about which problems to solve—the identification of low hanging fruit…”

    Montesquieu says:

    “When the savages of Louisiana are desirous of fruit, they cut the tree to the root and gather the fruit. This is an emblem of despotic government.”

    Time management? Present or future? Should I wait till he clears the linebacker to throw or chuck it and hope for the best? We’ll need fruit in a year or so I bet, so let’s not cut down the tree?

  64. Wonderlic and Louisiana and cornerbacks. Why? What do you do if the stereotype is true?

  65. @bartok
    isn't muscle heavier than fat - Carson vs Ben

    Muscle is more dense but there’s no way Ben is 235 at 6’5″ now.

  66. @David In TN
    That was the description of Frank Ryan Browns DB Bernie Parrish gave in his book. I remember Ryan hitting Gary Collins with TD passes on a crossing pattern. They connected for three TDs in the Browns 27-0 victory over the Colts in the 1964 NFL Championship game.

    The Browns blowout win in retrospect may be a bigger surprise than Super Bowl III.

    The Browns blowout win in retrospect may be a bigger surprise than Super Bowl III.

    It’s amazing how the NFL has been able to reset its history with Super Bowl I. When the 49ers were going for the threepeat in 1990, people barely acknowledged that the Packers already did it from 65-67. The issue is that the first title didn’t have a Super Bowl to cap it off. They also did it from 29-31, but there wasn’t even a championship game back then.

    I am a Giants fan but many of my fellow fans don’t realize that they went to SIX NFL championship games over the eight-year period from 1956-63, missing only 1957 where the Browns lost to the Lions’ last NFL championship team and 1960 where the Eagles gave Vince Lombardi and the Packers their only playoff loss. The Giants went 1-5 in these games, with the 1956 win over the Bears preventing the Giants from being the original Vikings or Bills.

    FunFact: From 1954-58 the Giants’ coordinators were Lombardi (offense) and Tom Landry (defense). Their last game as Giants coaches was The Greatest Game Ever Played. The Giants’ record during this time was 37-21-2 (.633) with two Eastern Conference titles and one NFL Championship. And because it was before the Super Bowl, it was like it never happened.

  67. @Whitehall
    I wonder what Joe Montana's score was?

    He always struck me as the smartest player on the field. A Stanford grad too.

    Of course, he was well couched.

    It’s funny, in interviews he seemed to come off as a moron.

  68. I am a little surprised that this kind of cognitive testing is being allowed.

    Isn’t there a cry from the less cognitive to get rid of this kind of testing?

    What about disparate impact?

    Are only quarterbacks being tested?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Everyone gets tested. However wonderlic test is important only for position that requires certain level of intelligence. QB being the most obvious example, but also offensive linemen, inside linebacker and safety. If a player's position is cornerback or runningback, the test is merely perfunctory and not included in the evaluation of players.
  69. @Hibernian
    "1964 was one of the rare off-years for Lombardi’s Packers. "

    '64 was the year Paul Hornung returned from his one year gambling suspension.

    Yes. They also were beaten out the year before by da Bears–George Halas’s last championship (they beat the Giants).

  70. @David In TN
    That was the description of Frank Ryan Browns DB Bernie Parrish gave in his book. I remember Ryan hitting Gary Collins with TD passes on a crossing pattern. They connected for three TDs in the Browns 27-0 victory over the Colts in the 1964 NFL Championship game.

    The Browns blowout win in retrospect may be a bigger surprise than Super Bowl III.

    I remember the game well. Shula was thoroughly out coached by Blanton Collier and it wouldn’t be the last time Shula got out coached. Unitas was bottled up completely. You may be right about the Brons

  71. anonymous[286] • Disclaimer says:

    I came of age watching those Giant teams in those days. Hate to say it but…in looking back they played in a weak (Eastern) division in the pre-merger NFL and were probably overrated by the NY media who discovered the NFL after the Sudden Death championship game in ྲྀ. I loved Tittle but never could shake the feeling that he folded like a cheap camera when facing a physical team i.e. Packers. I remember watching the ཹ championship game in Green Bay when he stunk up the joint bigtime. They lost 37 zip and there’s a story that Huff and Robustelli went to Giant coach Allie Sherman at the end of the first half and demanded that he replace Tittle. Which he did. With 42 year old Charlie Conerly who wasn’t much better. Sherman was actually good coach who had good–but not great–personnel. The team got old en mass after ཻ, leaving Sherman with not a lot to work with. He eventually got fired and went into business.

  72. Anonymous [AKA "Mran"] says:

    Looking at the Wikipedia page of Wonderlic scores: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonderlic_test#Average_score_in_the_NFL_by_position

    Are the 4 “reported” NFL 48+ Wonderlic scores true? That seems a little high, doesn’t it?

  73. @Doug
    Question for sports stats experts. Any research on how well Wonderlick predicts career performance in the NFL? We know that IQ predicts success across a wide range of jobs, so it'd be interesting to see if that extends to professional athletes.

    Great QBs have high Wunderlich’s. There are some exceptions (Marino mainly). It’s definitely more important than their 40 time.

    Jackson won’t make it as qb in nfl. Very similar to RG3 who was s disaster personally and professionally. A score of 13 virtually guarantees he can’t read a defense.

  74. @CJ
    He’s now 81 and retired, but his football career does not seem to have affected his brain. He really does appear to be possibly the smartest guy ever to play pro football. A quick excerpt from his Wikipedia entry, under the heading of Post-NFL Career:


    Soon after his retirement from the Redskins, Ryan remained in the nation's capital when he was named Director of Information Services for the U.S. House of Representatives. While there, he helped advance the computer age in politics by playing an integral role in establishing the body's first electronic voting system. This enabled voting procedures that usually ran for 45 minutes to be shortened to around 15 minutes. By the time he left the post, the office had an annual budget of eight million dollars with a staff of 225.[12]

    Ryan resigned that post to become athletic director and lecturer in mathematics at Yale University on March 7, 1977. Ryan served in that position for ten years before resigning to become the school's Associate Vice President for Institutional Planning.

    He was a member of the Rice Board of Governors from 1972 to 1976, and Ryan was recognized as a distinguished alumnus in 1987. Ryan became vice president for external affairs at Rice in August 1990, increasing annual gifts to the university to a three-year average of $32.8 million for the fiscal years 1992–94 from $21.4 million for the fiscal years 1988–90. In 1995, he resigned his post as vice president for external affairs at Rice, owing to differences with President Malcolm Gillis concerning the future course of external affairs. Ryan ended his institutional career as a professor of mathematics, and professor of computational and applied mathematics at Rice.[13]

    Ryan was president and chief executive officer of Contex Electronics, which designed and manufactured cable and interconnect products for the computer and communications industries. Ryan also served as director for America West Airlines, Sequoia Voting Systems,[14] and of Danielson Holding Corporation. He was an advisory director of United Medical Care Inc.

    Now retired, Ryan lives on 78 acres of heavily forested land[15] in Grafton, Vermont with his wife, Joan, a retired sportswriter and nationally syndicated columnist for the Washington Post.[3] One of the first female sportswriters to ever grace a locker room, his wife (not to be confused with another sportswriter named Joan Ryan)[16][17] and Ryan stayed married since their senior year at Rice, 52 years earlier.[10] In retirement, he now runs a sophisticated self-designed program that helps micro-analyze statistical behavior of the up-and-down pricing movement that underlies the pricing behavior of the futures market. He is also doing work on Oppermann's conjecture about the distribution of prime numbers.[3]

     

    A lot of the concussion drama is guys trying to cash in on a lawsuit.

  75. @ScarletNumber
    Well I would imagine the NFL has the money to defend itself from lawsuits. Also, one could argue that the entire concept of an NFL draft violates anti-trust laws.

    The NFL is exempt from anti-trust laws. So are most major sports, I believe.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    MLB is the only sport exempt from anti-trust laws going back to the 1922 case Federal Baseball Club v. National League. It was reaffirmed by Harry Blackmun, future author of Rowe v. Wade, in Flood v. Kuhn in 1972. Blackmun stated that it was up to congress to repeal the exemption granted in Federal Baseball Club but since they hadn't they were going to use it as precedent.

    The other leagues don't have this exemption. The NFL has been granted a limited exemption in order to negotiate a national television contract, but they had to bribe Russell Long to get it. That's how the New Orleans Saints came to be.

    The NFL Draft only exists because no one has challenged it. No potential athlete wants to blackball himself from the league by challenging it. It would never pass legal muster.
  76. Anonymous[896] • Disclaimer says:
    @lavoisier
    I am a little surprised that this kind of cognitive testing is being allowed.

    Isn't there a cry from the less cognitive to get rid of this kind of testing?

    What about disparate impact?

    Are only quarterbacks being tested?

    Everyone gets tested. However wonderlic test is important only for position that requires certain level of intelligence. QB being the most obvious example, but also offensive linemen, inside linebacker and safety. If a player’s position is cornerback or runningback, the test is merely perfunctory and not included in the evaluation of players.

  77. @DCThrowback
    They later divorced, as he ended up straying. The pull of the "p" was just too strong!

    To the original question, the "failure" of RG3 has many fathers, the most certainly being his contract with Adidas and his own ego at trying to come back from an ACL tear in less than a year and not being 100%. His rookie year was one of the best in NFL history. 25TD passes, 2 INTs!

    But Mike Shanahan and the turf at Fedex Field also deserve some of the blame, too.

    Amazing how QUIET that was. RGIII wound up in Cleveland, NFL QB graveyard. I think he was there a year. Immediately he divorced his wife back in DC, moved to Cleveland, met a 19 YO blonde that he so fell in love with he tattooed her name on his arm. Can’t remember her race. They were hot shits out there for a bit. Meh, it’s an old story. They can’t turn down the pooze. Each is sweeter than the last and they never say no. I couldn’t resist, but I wouldn’t be marrying at that age, heh…

    Not sure how ancient you guys are, but RFK stadium and now Fed Ex Field in Landover, they were always a soft kind of ground, the entire DC affair is built on a swamp, almost floating, which accounts for the fierce humidity. They never had decent footing, both were ‘mudders’ fields where a guy like Riggins made bad days for the linebackers. RG3 needed to learn, quickly, the sort of ball control, dink-and-dunk pocket schemes that keep you upright and healthy. But he didn’t have it to move around a little, find a guy fast and dump it. Every now and then, the long ball, which he threw beautifully. Great arm. But he relied on the legs, took off running too fast and after a few games, he was nicked and not such a surprise to anyone.

    Shanny and his son, who knew a thing or two about QBs knew Cousins was the real deal, likely in the mold of a Brady, but no one is Brady of course. RGIII was a “foist” because owner Snyder wanted a Black QB. We’ll see, Brady turned into quite a mind. You need a fast computer in your head: Brady, Brees and Rodgers have it, Ben has it, Rivers has it. Intuition, experience and the ability to dodge with a sidestep. We’ll see if Cousins really has it, but RGIII didn’t. Why is that?

  78. @Jim Don Bob
    The NFL is exempt from anti-trust laws. So are most major sports, I believe.

    MLB is the only sport exempt from anti-trust laws going back to the 1922 case Federal Baseball Club v. National League. It was reaffirmed by Harry Blackmun, future author of Rowe v. Wade, in Flood v. Kuhn in 1972. Blackmun stated that it was up to congress to repeal the exemption granted in Federal Baseball Club but since they hadn’t they were going to use it as precedent.

    The other leagues don’t have this exemption. The NFL has been granted a limited exemption in order to negotiate a national television contract, but they had to bribe Russell Long to get it. That’s how the New Orleans Saints came to be.

    The NFL Draft only exists because no one has challenged it. No potential athlete wants to blackball himself from the league by challenging it. It would never pass legal muster.

  79. @jJay
    I am a bit confused here. I own a small engineering business. If I were to give IQ tests to potential employees I would have to spend all my time swatting lawyers away. Perhaps that's not so. Does the NFL have some special exemption for this type of pre-employment screening?

    Fair question. I assume the answer is that the clubs are not demonstrably making employment decisions based on the Wonderlic.

    Cyrus Mehri, a civil rights attorney, has been pushing an alternative test for the usual reasons. The Wonderlic no doubt shows the standard racial gaps.

    Today, the NFL continues to ask potential draftees to take the Wonderlic, although the test now has company. In 2013, the league introduced the Player Assessment Tool, which was developed by attorney Cyrus Mehri, whose report led to the implementation of the NFL’s Rooney Rule, and psychology professor Harold Goldstein. Louis Bien of SB Nation recently reported that the PAT is a 50-minute exam that examines a player’s football smarts, psychological attributes, learning style and motivational cues. “Players are not given a numeric score, unlike on the Wonderlic, so technically there is no way to do poorly on it,” Bien wrote.

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-a-multiple-choice-test-became-a-fixture-of-the-nfl-draft/

    From another story:

    The PAT — titled as such, Mehri says, because it should be considered in the final stages of evaluation, as an extra point attempt follows a touchdown — is a 60-minute computer-based test. Of similar tests that Goldstein designed for other industries, Mehri says the PAT most resembles one developed for firefighters.

    In other words, it’s another product of the disparate-impact industry.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/02/17/nfl-combine-aptitude-test/1926409/

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