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The recent column by a New York Times staffer announcing that after complaints that describing (292 pound) Michael Brown as “burly” was racist, the NYT would no longer use that word to describe any black man involved in crime or violence is a good example of one of the fundamental conundrums of the age.
Here’s the basic problem: as we all know from watching sports, African-Americans tend to be faster and somewhat stronger than whites, much less East or South Asians. Blacks dominate in the most violent positions in sports, such as on the Seattle Seahawks defense.
This racial difference in muscularity and explosiveness is also seen outside of sports, where blacks commit a highly disproportionate fraction of all types of violent crimes. According to a 2011 Obama Administration report, blacks were homicide offenders at a rate more than 7 times as much as the rest of the population from 1980-2008. Data in the report says that young black males are homicide offenders at a rate 27 times higher than the average for the rest of the population.
We all more or less know these facts, but the reigning ideology says that knowing the facts is intolerable. This creates enormous incentives to hunt out anyone suspected of what Orwell would call crimethink by the slightest hints in their vocabulary.
Thus, this ludicrous Orwellian brouhaha over “burly.”
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If White people were only 13 percent of the U.S population and committed 50 percent of the country’s homicides, would The New York Times blame Nonwhite privilege, racism against Whites, and White poverty for this ? Or would The New York Times blame the high testosterone and low IQ of Whites for their out of control violent behavior ?
I agree it is an Orwellian controversy, but the new crimeword was not used by the New York Times to describe Michael Brown. It was used to describe the police spokesman Ron Johnson, who is also African American.
Google’s burlydarreturns “burly irishman” as its top finding. It may be my Boston origins but burly means a 6’+ 200 lbs.+ guy whose face is the map of Irelandand is known for feats of strength and last had a 36″ waist when he was fourteen or so.
unsvelte
or even
antisvelte
Are blacks really stronger than whites? Sporting events which really emphasize raw strength such as discus throwing, javelin, power lifting, etc., tend to be dominated by whites.
Faster and more agile yes.
Stronger? When’s the last time you saw a black man in the finals of an elite strongman competition or win a medal in Olympic powerlifting?
If you're in Iceland maybe, you'll train for strong man stuff.Replies: @Dave
“This racial difference in muscularity and explosiveness is also seen outside of sports, where blacks commit a highly disproportionate fraction of all types of violent crimes.”
This is one of the biggest stretches you’ve made. Ridiculous.
There is also a strong relation between body build and violent criminal propensity. This has been confirmed by research. Wilson and Herrnstein's Crime and Human Nature devotes a chapter to the topic. So no "stretch". here either.
You are the one who is being ridiculous; dismissing a perfectly reasonable analysis based on studies in a field of which you appear to be abysmally ignorant.
“Burly” is precariously close to “burglary” and could have subconsciously prejudiced Times readers against Michael Brown by inconveniently reminding them of a certain strongarm robbery of a convenience store.
In Northeast argot, “burly” connotes fat and stupid but harmless. The NY Times article says that in Southern English, “burly” connotes a large savage beast. It’s probably easier to just omit the word than try to teach Southerners proper English.
“Burly” also seems to imply a certain boorishness, an uncouth, perhaps not-very-bright sort of fellow. It wasn’t that long ago that it was common for ethnic blue collar types (truck drivers, stevedores, meat packers, etc. etc.) to be described as “burly.” So a Ralph Kramden-like character would be “burly,” while an even larger real-life (pre-anorexia) Al Sharpton would not.
Mark Henry and Ray Williams are extremely strong black men. World class powerlifters.
Black males, on average, are faster and more explosively agile than Euros and Asians, at least among the general population. Stress on the word average, because living in NYC for 25 years has proven to me that there are many black men that are neither fast nor powerful, and among those that are, those attributes fall off fast after the age of 40.
I hate to pop everyone's bubble, but all black men are not super human street fighting machines. Far from it.
You can’t say niggardly cause some blacks are too stupid to know what it means. You’re simultaneously supposed to know they’re too stupid to know it’s not the other word while giving them enough credit to be smart enough to know what it means.
Talk about a headache.
“Are blacks really stronger than whites? Sporting events which really emphasize raw strength such as discus throwing, javelin, power lifting, etc., tend to be dominated by whites.”
I think that blacks may not be strongest at the extremes. However your average black is relative to your average white, and is also more ripped.
They are exceptions to the rule. The reality is that Olympic Lifting, competitive Powerlifting and Strongman competitions are dominated by Europeans, and in the case of Olympic lifting, a fair cross section of Northeast Asians and Turks. The Olympic events of discus, javelin and hammer toss are also utterly dominated by Europeans.
Black males, on average, are faster and more explosively agile than Euros and Asians, at least among the general population. Stress on the word average, because living in NYC for 25 years has proven to me that there are many black men that are neither fast nor powerful, and among those that are, those attributes fall off fast after the age of 40.
I hate to pop everyone’s bubble, but all black men are not super human street fighting machines. Far from it.
There’s a bigger picture.
The drumbeat of “racist whites victimize blacks,” repeated over and over, keeps whites on the defensive. They must keep proving that they are not racist by making one concession after another, giving blacks ever more special preferences and privileges, and persecuting anyone who questions the official narrative. The New York Times is simply proving that it’s not racist by bowing down before yet another ridiculous accusation of racism.
Other official victim groups use the same tactic. Feminists, for example, shriek about “rape culture,” “slut shaming,” “sexual harassment,” and “online stalking.” However, they don’t care if the stories are true or if they even make sense. The point is to keep men constantly on the defensive, always trying to prove that they’re not sexists, rapists, harassers, and predators, giving women one special privilege after another and never, ever admitting that it’s happening.
Progressivism is Christian Egalitarianism masquerading as science-based pragmatism. Nothing needs to make sense, so long as they keep winning. New edicts issued every month to plug up the holes in an increasingly insane dogma.
The blasphemy issue here is not the word burly (which is a mild word for a 300 lb 6’4 man). No, the problem was pointing out that the “innocent, harmless teen” was actually an extremely large, genetic-outlier of a man.
The fact that their only defense mechanism was jumping on a commonly used word with no racial implications what-so-ever reveals the depths of their religious fervor. Such good and holy acts will not go unrewarded
There’s a bigger picture involved.
The drumbeat of “racist whites victimize blacks,” repeated over and over, keeps whites on the defensive. Truth is irrelevant. Whites must keep proving that they are not racist by making one concession after another, giving blacks ever more special preferences and privileges, and persecuting anyone who questions the official narrative. The New York Times is simply proving that it’s not racist by bowing down before yet another ridiculous accusation of racism.
Other official victim groups use the same tactic. Feminists shriek about “rape culture,” “slut shaming,” “sexual harassment,” and “online stalking.” They don’t care if the stories are true or if they even make sense. The point is to keep men constantly on the defensive, always trying to prove that they’re not sexists, rapists, harassers, and predators, giving women one special privilege after another and never, ever admitting that it’s happening.
Brian Dennehy is burly. He looks like the cop that no-one effs with. Ralph Kramden is pudgy.
Being called a burlyman is better than being called a girlyman.
I thought the Times was being slammed for saying that the big ‘un was “no angel.”
This racial difference in muscularity and explosiveness is also seen outside of sports, where blacks commit a highly disproportionate fraction of all types of violent crimes.
It does not take much “muscularity and explosiveness” to punch some unsuspecting pregnant woman in the head. Black mens well documented propensity to commit violent crime has no connection to their alleged muscularity.
Whites tend to dominate in pure strength events. Blacks tend to dominate in “power” events: that is, events that require high levels of strength that are manifested quickly, i.e., explosively. Strength is the ability to exert muscular force to move weight. Power is the ability to manifest that strength quickly.
The misnamed sport of powerlifting is an illustration of this. It should be called “strength lifting” because it is really a test of strength. Olympic weightlifting, snatch, clean & jerk, deserves the name powerlifting more than does powerlifting. Though there have been many truly great black powerlifters (Lamar Gant, an extraordinary physical specimen) and Big Jim Williams, for example, whites are usually the champions in the sport. But take an event that requires that you be strong and able to explode, there you’ll find blacks predominating. Exceptions abound, blah blah. But if Steve used the word “power” rather than “strength” in describing what he’s talking about, he’d be bang on the mark.
People confuse speed-strength and limit strength all the time. West Africans are better at the former, Europeans at the latter. Yet people on this and similar boards engage in African worship, claiming that "blacks are faster and stronger". There are huge differences between "blacks", with West and East Africans being on opposite side of the speed-endurance spectrum.
Yes, "blacks" (of different origin) are faster in short and very long distances - but not medium distances. And they are not stronger in general. Speaking of just American blacks (predominantly West African), here is a case in point:
Check out the NFL combine bench press results. Despite (I think) there being somewhat more blacks in the line positions, which dominate the BP event, highest rep records are typically set by whites (or Samoans).
How many whites to do you see winning the 40-yard-dash and vertical jump events in the NFL combine?
“Burly” betokens baseless baleful black bashing by blond/blue bigots. Bombastic busybodies believe burly banning buttresses beneficent behavior.
New York Times Style Guide (revised):
Burly
Never use burly to describe blacks, use athletic instead.
New York Times Style Guide (revised (revised)):
Athletic
Describing blacks as athletic is stereotypical, use scholarly instead.
Blacks are known to have stronger bones. And Do Our Bones Influence Our Minds?
“Gerard Karsenty became curious about a mysterious protein, called osteocalcin, that is found at high concentrations in the skeleton. He worked with mice that had been engineered to lack the substance, expecting to find problems with their bones. But their skeletons appeared essentially normal…
The mice did have issues, though. Their abdomens were fatty, they had trouble breeding, and they were “stupid,” meaning “they never rebelled or tried to bite or escape,” […] While its role within the skeleton remains unknown, he has shown that the substance has wide-ranging effects on mice’s fat stores, livers, muscles, pancreases, testes, and even, as new evidence suggests, their brains. It turns out that osteocalcin is a messenger, sent by bone to regulate crucial processes all over the body. …. mice engineered to lack osteocalcin were essentially diabetic; they were less sensitive to insulin, and produced less of it. When he provided osteocalcin, however, their insulin sensitivity and blood sugar normalized. […]
n 2011, he showed that bones play a crucial role in male reproduction: mice that did not produce osteocalcin had abnormally low levels of testosterone and were sterile. Mice that produced high levels, on the other hand, had more testosterone and bred more frequently. (The mechanism did not appear to be relevant to females. […]
This is one of the biggest stretches you've made. Ridiculous.Replies: @Jus' Sayin'..., @John Cunningham
As Steve Sailer pointed out, Blacks commit murder at 7 times the rate of Whites. They commit armed robberies at something like 16 times the rate of Whites, based on the last time I looked at the data. They also disproportionately commit pther types of violent crime including rape and aggravated assault. The non-violent crimes show far less racial dispropotion than these. Anyone at all familiar with the US crime data (UCR, NCVS, SHR, etc.) knows these facts. So this is not a ridiculous stretch.
There is also a strong relation between body build and violent criminal propensity. This has been confirmed by research. Wilson and Herrnstein’s Crime and Human Nature devotes a chapter to the topic. So no “stretch”. here either.
You are the one who is being ridiculous; dismissing a perfectly reasonable analysis based on studies in a field of which you appear to be abysmally ignorant.
Every time this comes up, Steve refuses to point to any scientific source and instead goes, “Hyuck, hyuck, didn’t you watch the Super Bowl?”
Obviously the real point is to downplay Mike Brown’s size and threatening nature, having failed to suppress these facts entirely. Maybe they can call him “Plus Sized”.
Perhaps the NYT is confusing “burly” with the long out of use “burr” slur, referring to black hair, as in “burr-head”.
What pays more, being a power lifter or an NFL defensive lineman?
Never describe blacks as “articulate.” This is code for, “most black speech is tense-free mumble.” Also, you can’t tell from listening whether someone is black. Johnnie Cochran said so.
Stronger? When's the last time you saw a black man in the finals of an elite strongman competition or win a medal in Olympic powerlifting?Replies: @Dave Pinsen
There is no such thing as Olympic power lifting. And if you’re a big, strong, athletic young man in America, you’ll gravitate toward football, not strong man competitions.
If you’re in Iceland maybe, you’ll train for strong man stuff.
Most serious football programs, from at least high school level, train youngsters in the 3 main lifts as part of general strength building programs. Black men have easy access to heavy weight stacks, both in school and in prison, as well as at publicly funded community centers in most major cities. There is no shortage of black men who have lifted weights, but it is very rare to see them among the elite in serious strength sports.
O.D. Wilson came very close to being the first American since Bill Kazmaier to win the World’s Strongest Man title in 1990.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O.D._Wilson
Actually, strength based positions and sports tend to be dominated by whites. Even the speed aspect is changing before our eyes, and blacks are forced into a far more narrow realm of positions like cornerback in the NFL.
Some examples:
What black American heavyweight boxers have anywhere close to the hand speed or strength of the Klitchkos? What black fighters had the same foot or hand speed as Calzaghe? Even RJJ’s trainer was forced to admit before their fight that it was the first time Roy had ever fought someone with equal hand speed and foot speed in his entire career. At middleweight, zero black American fighters have the hand speed or strength that Golovkin does, albeit he is a white and Asian mix of races. The American black fighters like Hopkins and many others always seemed shocked to encounter people like calzaghe who are both mentally and physically stronger than they are compared to the American whites they are used to dealing with in sports.
In the track and field events that involve strength, the whites tend to dominate. The same is true for world class wrestling, especially the more strength based Greco style. In football, offensive linemen tend to be white. Even among the new breed of QBs, Luck is much larger and far stronger than RG3, but almost as fast in sprinting and probably faster in a functional manner in games bc of better intelligence.
My theory? Decades of racial discrimination against whites that was partially based on reality and partly on stereotype, but the reality aspect is mostly based upon how much quicker blacks develop than whites. Whites tend to be late bloomers compared to blacks, which means they get all of the early scouting and coaching while many talented whites may just end up quitting. As Steve has pointed out, whites not raised in America seem to do just fine in the nba, not to mention how they dominate boxing at the middleweight and up classes these days.
Look at Superbowl champions Seattle Seahawks an overwhelmingly black team: all four of the quarterbacks on it's roster are black. I predicted their Superbowl win even before the playoffs last year. Now I predict that they will be the first team to win the Superbowl 3 years in a row...Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous
If you're in Iceland maybe, you'll train for strong man stuff.Replies: @Dave
There is Olympic lifting , consisting of the clean and jerk and the snatch, both being highly technical explosive lifts, and competitive powerlifting , being the squat, bench press and deadlift.
Most serious football programs, from at least high school level, train youngsters in the 3 main lifts as part of general strength building programs. Black men have easy access to heavy weight stacks, both in school and in prison, as well as at publicly funded community centers in most major cities. There is no shortage of black men who have lifted weights, but it is very rare to see them among the elite in serious strength sports.
Not sure why this didn’t get through before. The site seemed to think I made the same comment twice.
There’s a bigger picture.
The drumbeat of “racist whites victimize blacks,” repeated over and over, keeps whites on the defensive. They must keep proving that they are not racist by making one concession after another, giving blacks ever more special preferences and privileges, and persecuting anyone who questions the official narrative. The New York Times is simply proving that it’s not racist by bowing down before yet another ridiculous accusation of racism.
Other official victim groups use the same tactic. Feminists, for example, shriek about “rape culture,” “slut shaming,” “sexual harassment,” and “online stalking.” However, they don’t care if the stories are true or if they even make sense. The point is to keep men constantly on the defensive, always trying to prove that they’re not sexists, rapists, harassers, and predators, giving women one special privilege after another and never, ever admitting that it’s happening.
My apologies.
He’s so well-spoken!
It’s worse than that. It is black men not women. So that’s at most 6.5 percent half of 13. But get rid of eely old and really young and it’s about 4 percent.
This is one of the biggest stretches you've made. Ridiculous.Replies: @Jus' Sayin'..., @John Cunningham
hardly a stretch, comrade. every FBI survey shows that blacks commit violent crimes at a massively higher rate than any other population group. you need to get some better talking points from your party cadre.
Really, for a bunch of folks that claim to be interested in seeing the world as it is, a lot of iSteve acolytes are cult-like in their refusal to question a word the guru says.
Nothing will change.
Only thing to do is avoid blacks — especially the young male ones.
Are blacks so violent primarily because of their low average IQ?
How does avg black violent crime rates compare to underclass whites with IQs in the 80-85 range?
Seems like blacks are still more violent than dumb whites, though the gap is not as great.
What about the large, fast-working baseball pitcher Mark “Send “Em Home Early” Buehrle? Is he now banned from the sports pages? Or is it all right because he’s white?
ROTFL. How to control illegal immigration. Fill Rio Grande with crocs.
http://video.palmbeachpost.com/Swimmer-frantically-tries-to-reach-shore-as-large-crocodile-chases-him-in-Mexico-26522680?vcid=26522680&freewheel=90068&sitesection=palmbeachpost#.U_5pTtKwJuP
Shut up, because racism and slavery and white privilege!
the long limbs of west african blacks and their descendents make them more successful in sports such as basketball, boxing, sprinting etc. granted, there’s more to it than that.
on the other hand, long limbs are a hindrance in powerlifting and weightlifting.
“Blacks commit murder at 7 times the rate of Whites. ” what we are missing before we can make any generalizations is some historical context. Has this always been the case? How has the percentage of violent crime committed by blacks changed in the US since colonial times? has it varied over time and place? tracked with social conditions etc.
Ask anyone who has grappled or boxed at a high level and they will tell you that there is a definite difference between the races. Blacks in grappling tend to be fast but lack what is described as “mat strength” in grappling, which is why whites tend to dominate at the highest levels of Olympic wrestling. Blacks are able to get into positions, but are usually overpowered by the strength advantage of whites. The same is true in boxing, where blacks often are very quick, but on average punch with far less impact and power than whites. Far more blacks tend to have glass jaws for whatever reason, too.
Oscar de la Hoya once got into huge trouble for saying black fighters have no heart compared to whites and Mexicans, but he was basically correct with very few exceptions – at least in the modern era. At heavyweight, I can only think of Holyfield and Foreman as having true heart by any standards in the last fifteen years or so of top level boxing.
It’s worse than that. It is black men not women.
But black women have a higher homicide rate than white men.
If you call a black person “articulate”, your career may be capped at the level of Vice President of the United States.
Another race realist who is out of touch with reality. Blacks dominate football. Even the quarterback position, traditionally a white monopoly, is likely to become majority black within a decade, for the era of the athletic quarterback is here. Last season opened with 9 starting black quarterbacks.
Look at Superbowl champions Seattle Seahawks an overwhelmingly black team: all four of the quarterbacks on it’s roster are black. I predicted their Superbowl win even before the playoffs last year. Now I predict that they will be the first team to win the Superbowl 3 years in a row…
Black thugs are unlikely to have any special skill at street fighting: developing that skill requires learning, discipline, effort, and practice sustained over time, none of which individuals of low intelligence are likely to undertake.
But they do give themselves the advantage of numbers, even when assaulting a lone individual: they administer their beatings in packs.
And they choose for their victims individuals who appear unlikely to offer up much resistance: big burly white men are rarely their prey.
So much for my idea of a security app aimed at protecting white people from black thugs and called “Burly-Warning System.”
anyone who is into the youtube pranksters knows the difference in blacks and whites.
Youtube pranksters make money via youtube views. They play pranks on people in public. For example, they might come up to a man and woman they do not know and say something like “Hey, girl, why you going out with this guy? You told me it was me and you forever!”, and other similar things.
The latest trend in youtube pranksters is “pranks in the Hood”. Meaning that the pranksters go to black neighborhoods to do their pranks. They do this because blacks are far more to give a violent reaction to a prank. In fact, some of the pranksters are looking to get beat up on. And when you prank young black males, it’s gonna happen. They hit you with the slightest provocation.
Search youtube for prank in the hood gone wrong.
I thought ‘burly’ was the adult form of ‘husky’.
It’s is precariously close to “buggery” too.
These edicts don’t just fall from the skies: someone has to sell them. If you oppose the edicts, then go after the salespeople. In this case, the “New York Times staffer” is Kyle Massey. He hasn’t tweeted yet (if @KyleAnnakerry77 is him), but in the normal case NYT reporters will be active on Twitter. So, set out to discredit him one way or another such as by asking him questions or entrapping him into admitting how his position is wrong. Then, show other NYT reporters what happened, with the goal of changing their behavior.
If those pulling the strings of the Kyle Masseys can’t find Kyle Masseys to be their salespeople, are they going to have much luck selling their ideas?
I use the word niggardly as often as I can. I will now do the same with burly.
I think of NFL offensive linemen, no matter their race, as burly.
However, the person/character who most quickly comes to mind at the mention of the word is the Lou Grant character whom Ed Asner played on the old Mary Tyler Moore show. He even had hairy forearms!
OT: Four white players attack a black redshirt freshman in a “hazing” incident (but was not actually hazing if you believe the chatter on the UNC and NC State message boards), give him a concussion, are only suspended for one game.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/08/27/5133380/four-unc-football-players-suspended.html#.U_6ChvldV7s
Ha ha, just kidding, it was four black guys attacking a white guy.
I’m convinced that some of this idolization of black men’s bodies – So strong! So athletic! Such excellent street fighters! – is rooted in sexual jealousy: they can have our women, we can’t have theirs.
You couldn't pay white men to take black women.
Also, this sexual jealously arises from an unhealthy obsession with blacks. The only white women I know who date black dudes are chubsters. There's a few notable exceptions in the media like Heidi Klum, Kim Kardashian, or Doetzen Kroes, but attractive white women with black men is pretty rare. Look at Rebecca Liddicoat, RG3's white wife. She's a girl you wouldn't look twice at on the street--he's a Heisman trophy winner, a fairly respectable guy by all accounts from a two-parent military household, and a no. 2 draft pick. Miscegenation (especially involving attractive white women) really isn't very common. But those on the right as race-obsessed as Eric Holder see the exceptions I note and go nuts with it.
Steve is right about burly, a word that has no exact replacement and has no racial connotations, but complaining about “niggardly” is reasonable. We have plenty of other words to use: cheap, miserly, ungenerous, stingy, etc.
Brawny is the closest word to burly, but brawny is mostly muscle with a bit of fat, burly is for a big guy who is about an equal mix.
The Online Etymology Dictionary says:
"mean person, miser," late 14c., nygart, of uncertain origin. The suffix suggests French origin (see -ard), but the root word is possibly from earlier nig "stingy" (c.1300), perhaps from a Scandinavian source related to Old Norse hnøggr "stingy," from Proto-Germanic *khnauwjaz (source of Swedish njugg "close, careful," German genau "precise, exact"), and to Old English hneaw "stingy, niggardly," which did not survive in Middle English.Replies: @The most deplorable one
It seems that a penchant for violence and a general ‘in your face’ attitude, is mistaken for superior “strength” in the USA.
they can have our women, we can’t have theirs.
You’re kidding, right? Of course you can.
Are you being tongue-in-cheek?
You couldn’t pay white men to take black women.
This was in today’s Minneapolis Star Tribune sports page:
“Burly, blue-collar Big Ten West is wide open
Article by: JOE CHRISTENSEN , Star Tribune
Updated: August 27, 2014 – 12:17 PM
More on Asians v. Hispanics in California:
In California, a lot of things, in particular tax increases, need to pass both chambers of the Legislature with a 2/3 majority.
In 2012, Dems got that 2/3 majority for the first time ever, but just barely. They actually haven’t passed any tax increases with their new supermajority because it is so narrow and includes some conservative rural dems, and the real estate and tech booms have fixed the budget on their own.
The GOP has decided to go after several vulnerable hispanic democrats with Asian candidates. Here is the write-up from Daily Kos Elections:
California Asians vote as follows:
Vietnamese – Solid Republican now, but trending left
Koreans – Split fairly evenly now, but there’s big generational gap so also trending left
Filipinos – Mostly Democrats
Chinese – Don’t vote much, but solidly Democrat
Japanese – Not many full Japanese left in California due to intermarriage, but solid Democrat
Native Hawaiian – Solid Democrat
Other Pacific Islander – Solid Democrat except for the evangelical megachurch types
Koreans – Split fairly evenly now, but there’s big generational gap so also trending left"
Among Asians, Vietnamese and Koreans are the most likely to vote Republican. While West Coast Asians are becoming ever more SWPL and vote accordingly, in Texas the Vietnamese vote solidly Republican as do Koreans in the Southeast.
However, Republicans appear to be masters at repelling even these groups by alternating between the extremes of unintended hostility and obsequious/counterproductive outreach.
Also, as with whites, religious affiliation has a strong influence on their voting patterns. Traditional Catholic Vietnamese and conservative evangelical Protestant Koreans vote very strongly for the GOP while the religiously unaffiliated tend to vote strongly for the Democrats.Replies: @Steve Sailer
I did a brief search on burly and could not find an example of a derogatory usage. Can someone post a link to burly being used as a slur or a dictionary entry?
I personally think they are making it up. Wiktionary does not mention a derogatory usage, and anybody can edit that. That leaves the OED which is more effort and expense than I am willing to put into it.
But I am curious enough to want to see an actual example in the wild.
The biggest Latino v. Asian political fight in Southern California ever was this special election:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California%27s_32nd_congressional_district_special_election,_2009
The district was 48% Latino and 13% Asian, but the Dem primary was won by Judy Chu, who then crushed her first cousin’s wife, Republican Betty Chu, in the general election.
The biggest statewide Asian v. Latino contest also was won by the Asian, Betty Yee, over John Perez. She beat him in the State Controller election by 0.012%, or less than 500 votes out of 4.8 million cast.
Perez is also gay, and also a first cousin of Villaraigosa.
Peter – I do not think you understand women. Like you, they are human, and (probably, ceteris paribus) like you, they like things like empathy, healthy symmetry, and companionability. The subset that is willing to forego empathy, symmetry, and companionability is small, and is just as likely to forego those attributes in a man of one race as in a man of another race. By the way, I look and am a non-attractive but obviously sort-of-high-T white guy, and black girls (and Jewish girls, and non-Italian European girls, and Asian girls) have always very readily flirted with me, so I know that, if my world is the real world, that you are wrong about relative race attractiveness. If you need a dating coach, dude, find one.
anon at 9″50 = Steve S. (who pays for this bandwidth, thanks, Steve!) is a smart guy but he has never explained why Dominicans (who on average are fairly non-exceptional in appearance) are more statistically prevalent at remunerative non-World Series level U.S. baseball to a higher degree than African-Americans are at (non-finals, not counting the Celtics) U.S. remunerative pro-level basketball (both groups seem for unexplained reasons to be “relatively” – and I mean that in the most fair way – more prevalent at regular season skills than at post-season skills). He is a smart guy but until he fully explains that figure (or the ridiculous prevalence of Soviet chess dudes a few decades ago) I am going to take his Entine-level theories on race and sports with a grain of salt
Steve (assuming you read your comments) – off topic, and nothing to do with any of this comment, but I heard you on the Mike Savage show a few years ago. You sounded like a radio natural, sort of like Tom Seaver, or a higher IQ version of Nick Cage. As I said, off topic.
regarding crime rates are there numbers on violent crimes committed by whites where the victim has no connection to the perpetrator? You know, where the victim is an acquaintance or work at the same location or drink in the same bar. The thinking being that the white on stranger violent crime rate must be even less compared to black on stranger than the grand total number.
I guess this explains why the Gray Lady doesn’t do a lot of in-depth coverage of pipe smoking aficionados.
http://pipedia.org/wiki/Pipe_Tobaccos#Burley
Race, IQ, and the search for statistical signals associated with so-called “X”-factors: environments, racism, and the “hereditarian hypothesis
By Jonathan Kaplan.
There's a bigger picture.
The drumbeat of "racist whites victimize blacks," repeated over and over, keeps whites on the defensive. They must keep proving that they are not racist by making one concession after another, giving blacks ever more special preferences and privileges, and persecuting anyone who questions the official narrative. The New York Times is simply proving that it's not racist by bowing down before yet another ridiculous accusation of racism.
Other official victim groups use the same tactic. Feminists, for example, shriek about "rape culture," "slut shaming," "sexual harassment," and "online stalking." However, they don't care if the stories are true or if they even make sense. The point is to keep men constantly on the defensive, always trying to prove that they're not sexists, rapists, harassers, and predators, giving women one special privilege after another and never, ever admitting that it's happening.Replies: @Borachio
Oops. Looks like I did post it twice.
My apologies.
Black men are disadvantaged in lifting sports by some of the same biomechanical charecteristics that favor them in the sprints, they have relatively longer limbs, and narrower pelvises, elite strength athletes tend to have short limbs and longer torsos, its simply physics the longer levers are able to attain greater acceleration this combined with the stretch shortening effect on longer tendons results in a structure optimized for running and jumping but not lifting due to lower ability to generate torque.
On average young black men have a clear but not large advantage in LBM on american white men there are about half an inch shorter then white men but 4 lbs heavier with 1 inch smaller waist, simple observation will indicate that highly muscular almost steroidal seeming builds are more common in black athletes and these numbers corroborate that observation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/01/us/sizing-up-america-signs-of-expansion-from-head-to-toe.html
http://www.halls.md/on/men-height-b.htm
http://www.vdare.com/posts/height-and-weight-new-survey-of-blacks-whites-and-hispanics
There is also the findings on myostatin mutations in sub saharan populations, MAO-A, and anaerobic muscle fiber precentage.
http://jap.physiology.org/content/61/5/1758.
I have done some consultation with an elite training and analysis group who work soley with elite athletes they have found a pattern of differences in force production between races though have not published this data for what would seem to be obvious reason. Basically blacks have the highest combination of quickness and strength while lacking mobility, asians are exceptional at mobility and whites are the most variable in physical type.
I suspect that the current demographics seen in the the NFL, track and MLB exaggerates the black white talent gap and the fact the fastest white sprinters and best white basketball players come from small countries with no african derived populations seems to back this up but I think there is good evidence now to back up the anecdotal observation that this populations have advantages in specific athletic disciplines.
While the black advantage in sports which can be viewed as ritualized violence is not surprising given there greater overall aggressiveness, the two need not necessarily correlate, none of the advantages proposed above necessarily incline blacks to greater aggressiveness except MAO-A which may or may not be an an athletic advantage, studies on testosterone have returned mixed results so I wouldn’t state with confidence blacks have higher testosterone.
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2007-0028
Black "quickness" is largely muscle-based and is "explosive." Asian athletes can be exceptionally quick as well, but their advantage is neurological/reaction-based. In other words, their OODA (observe-orient-decide-act) loop, on average, is faster than men of other races. That is why they excel in, and dominate, reaction-based sports like table tennis and Shotokan Karate.
Although I did not keep the citation, I read a study a while back suggesting that East Asians actually have slightly higher testosterone level than Europeans but have much lower androgen receptivity, thus lowering the effects of testosterone in the former. But it sounded pretty speculative.
On average young black men have a clear but not large advantage in LBM on american white men there are about half an inch shorter then white men but 4 lbs heavier with 1 inch smaller waist, simple observation will indicate that highly muscular almost steroidal seeming builds are more common in black athletes and these numbers corroborate that observation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/01/us/sizing-up-america-signs-of-expansion-from-head-to-toe.html
http://www.halls.md/on/men-height-b.htm
http://www.vdare.com/posts/height-and-weight-new-survey-of-blacks-whites-and-hispanics
There is also the findings on myostatin mutations in sub saharan populations, MAO-A, and anaerobic muscle fiber precentage.
http://jap.physiology.org/content/61/5/1758.
I have done some consultation with an elite training and analysis group who work soley with elite athletes they have found a pattern of differences in force production between races though have not published this data for what would seem to be obvious reason. Basically blacks have the highest combination of quickness and strength while lacking mobility, asians are exceptional at mobility and whites are the most variable in physical type.
I suspect that the current demographics seen in the the NFL, track and MLB exaggerates the black white talent gap and the fact the fastest white sprinters and best white basketball players come from small countries with no african derived populations seems to back this up but I think there is good evidence now to back up the anecdotal observation that this populations have advantages in specific athletic disciplines.
While the black advantage in sports which can be viewed as ritualized violence is not surprising given there greater overall aggressiveness, the two need not necessarily correlate, none of the advantages proposed above necessarily incline blacks to greater aggressiveness except MAO-A which may or may not be an an athletic advantage, studies on testosterone have returned mixed results so I wouldn't state with confidence blacks have higher testosterone.
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2007-0028Replies: @Fenris, @Twinkie, @Twinkie
Where I said MLB above I meant the NBA, MLB is rather different story of ethnic weirdness.
Has their been any scientific research done to explain the disparity in crime rates?
” they can have our women, we can’t have theirs.”
If you as a White guy are attracted to women of African descent, you should travel to Latin American countries that have a sizable percentage of Black/Mulata women. Lots of them are open to dating White guys because of the lighter is better mentality in Latin America.
When I was in Brazil, some of the Mulata women down there flirted with me a White guy.
Women of African descent in Brazil on average are better looking than women of African descent in the U.S. My theory is because on average they have more Caucasian blood and they are less obese.
You’re arguing against a strawman. Nobody is contesting the disproportionately high level of black criminality. Rather, I’m questioning the notion that the supposed advantage in explosiveness and muscularity is a major cause of that criminality (as opposed to cultural explanations, poverty caused by low IQ, low IQ itself). Even if this were so, to present it as obvious fact without any evidence or explanation is ridiculous.
Really, for a bunch of folks that claim to be interested in seeing the world as it is, a lot of iSteve acolytes are cult-like in their refusal to question a word the guru says.
Matthew McConaughey’s Mulata Brazilian wife is more attractive than the vast majority of Black women I have seen here in the U.S.
It’s an interesting theory, but aren’t black women the most likely of all women to respond to messages on online dating sites? I don’t think black women are as difficult for interested white men to date as you think.
I don’t know, that’s a good question.
white girls love having sex with Black Men. How bout that?
It’s kinda gay.
Also, this sexual jealously arises from an unhealthy obsession with blacks. The only white women I know who date black dudes are chubsters. There’s a few notable exceptions in the media like Heidi Klum, Kim Kardashian, or Doetzen Kroes, but attractive white women with black men is pretty rare. Look at Rebecca Liddicoat, RG3’s white wife. She’s a girl you wouldn’t look twice at on the street–he’s a Heisman trophy winner, a fairly respectable guy by all accounts from a two-parent military household, and a no. 2 draft pick. Miscegenation (especially involving attractive white women) really isn’t very common. But those on the right as race-obsessed as Eric Holder see the exceptions I note and go nuts with it.
OT: Chechens acting Chechen-y
http://nypost.com/2014/08/27/boston-bombers-sister-in-custody-on-reported-bomb-threat/
bones play a crucial role in male reproduction: mice that did not produce osteocalcin had abnormally low levels of testosterone and were sterile. Mice that produced high levels, on the other hand, had more testosterone and bred more frequently
Black men do not have higher testosterone levels than white men. They do have higher estrogen levels than white men though.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17456570
As I pointed out, black male estrogen levels are only 7.8% closer to the lowest white female estrogen levels than white males, and, when we look at the info quoted by Hard Line whatever we find that AA Female estrogen levels are elevated above those of white females by more.
In addition, the lowest estrogen levels in white females are 2.5 times higher than black males and about 2.6 times above white males.
Finally, you forgot to mention DHT which is much more potent than testosterone and the difference in black levels of DHT compared to whites is similar to those estrogen levels you are so hung up on.
I think that blacks may not be strongest at the extremes. However your average black is relative to your average white, and is also more ripped.
Wrong again. Black men have the same body fat levels as white men.
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v26/n12/fig_tab/0802167t7.html
Regarding statistics by race on homicides of acquaintances and strangers, see the Bureau of Justice Statistics report I discussed in Taki’s:
http://takimag.com/article/guns_and_race_steve_sailer/print#axzz3BYnSPb8d
anon at 9"50 = Steve S. (who pays for this bandwidth, thanks, Steve!) is a smart guy but he has never explained why Dominicans (who on average are fairly non-exceptional in appearance) are more statistically prevalent at remunerative non-World Series level U.S. baseball to a higher degree than African-Americans are at (non-finals, not counting the Celtics) U.S. remunerative pro-level basketball (both groups seem for unexplained reasons to be "relatively" - and I mean that in the most fair way - more prevalent at regular season skills than at post-season skills). He is a smart guy but until he fully explains that figure (or the ridiculous prevalence of Soviet chess dudes a few decades ago) I am going to take his Entine-level theories on race and sports with a grain of salt
Steve (assuming you read your comments) - off topic, and nothing to do with any of this comment, but I heard you on the Mike Savage show a few years ago. You sounded like a radio natural, sort of like Tom Seaver, or a higher IQ version of Nick Cage. As I said, off topic.Replies: @Steve Sailer
“You sounded like a radio natural, sort of like Tom Seaver,”
One of the finest sportsmen of my younger years
“a higher IQ version of Nick Cage.”
I’m going to think about that one before responding.
Black men do not have higher testosterone levels than white men. They do have higher estrogen levels than white men though.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17456570Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @The most deplorable one
Estrogen is crucial for bone strength.
Black men do not have higher testosterone levels than white men. They do have higher estrogen levels than white men though.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17456570Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @The most deplorable one
Still on that hobby horse, Sebastian.
As I pointed out, black male estrogen levels are only 7.8% closer to the lowest white female estrogen levels than white males, and, when we look at the info quoted by Hard Line whatever we find that AA Female estrogen levels are elevated above those of white females by more.
In addition, the lowest estrogen levels in white females are 2.5 times higher than black males and about 2.6 times above white males.
Finally, you forgot to mention DHT which is much more potent than testosterone and the difference in black levels of DHT compared to whites is similar to those estrogen levels you are so hung up on.
In California, a lot of things, in particular tax increases, need to pass both chambers of the Legislature with a 2/3 majority.
In 2012, Dems got that 2/3 majority for the first time ever, but just barely. They actually haven't passed any tax increases with their new supermajority because it is so narrow and includes some conservative rural dems, and the real estate and tech booms have fixed the budget on their own.
The GOP has decided to go after several vulnerable hispanic democrats with Asian candidates. Here is the write-up from Daily Kos Elections:California Asians vote as follows:
Vietnamese - Solid Republican now, but trending left
Koreans - Split fairly evenly now, but there's big generational gap so also trending left
Filipinos - Mostly Democrats
Chinese - Don't vote much, but solidly Democrat
Japanese - Not many full Japanese left in California due to intermarriage, but solid Democrat
Native Hawaiian - Solid Democrat
Other Pacific Islander - Solid Democrat except for the evangelical megachurch typesReplies: @Steve Sailer, @Bliss, @Twinkie
Thanks.
Koreans are about as Natural Republicans as there are other than not being white, but if the GOP can’t hold them …
Brawny is the closest word to burly, but brawny is mostly muscle with a bit of fat, burly is for a big guy who is about an equal mix.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Borachio
“Brawny is the closest word to burly, but brawny is mostly muscle with a bit of fat, burly is for a big guy who is about an equal mix.”
Right. That elucidates what was vaguely in my mind. Brawny suggests big in the shoulders and chest, but could possibly be narrow in the waist, while burly suggests big in the waist as well as chest and shoulders.
However, the person/character who most quickly comes to mind at the mention of the word is the Lou Grant character whom Ed Asner played on the old Mary Tyler Moore show. He even had hairy forearms!Replies: @Steve Sailer
“Ed Asner”
The late Bob Hoskins, too.
Time Magazine wrote in 1962:
“Best amateur to stroll the links since the days of Bobby Jones and Lawson Little, burly Jack Nicklaus, 22, seemed a cinch for instant stardom when he turned professional last January.”
Both Jones and Little were strong, heavy men, but I don’t see anybody on Google calling Bobby Jones “burly:” it’s probably a class thing. Jones was the sports equivalent of the universally admired Southern Gentleman general (Washington, Lee, Marshall). Jones’ classiness even impressed Brits like Alister Cooke.
Absolutely ridiculous. Anyone who has been around Whites and Blacks as a young person or an athlete knows this is false. You obviously have a hole in your experience.
The link you provided doesn’t even purport to be relevant to the question of whether Black men and White men have “the same body fat levels”. It’s about racial averages, which have nothing to do with whether, in general, the fat levels are the “same” or whether the particular claim — about Blacks being much more likely to be “ripped” is true. That claim is true.
The link you provided doesn't even purport to be relevant to the question of whether Black men and White men have "the same body fat levels". It's about racial averages, which have nothing to do with whether, in general, the fat levels are the "same" or whether the particular claim -- about Blacks being much more likely to be "ripped" is true. That claim is true.Replies: @Steve Sailer
I paid a lot of attention to Southern California high school football in the 1970s and then again in the 2000s, especially Catholic school football. Catholic schools can do very well with mostly white teams, as long as they have a few outstanding blacks.
Look at Superbowl champions Seattle Seahawks an overwhelmingly black team: all four of the quarterbacks on it's roster are black. I predicted their Superbowl win even before the playoffs last year. Now I predict that they will be the first team to win the Superbowl 3 years in a row...Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous
“for the era of the athletic quarterback is here”
The era of the athletic quarterback is always just about here. It was just about here when USC had a black quarterback in the 1960s or the L.A. Rams had a black quarterback in 1973.
Grantland had a good article on why Buehrle is so effective despite having only about an 84 mph fastball. The analyst concluded that Buehrle appears to be just about the most effective fielder in the history of pitchers. His pickoff move is so good that only a few bases per year get stolen off him and he turns a lot of hard hit balls up the middle into double plays.
Koreans are natural conservatives, but not political conservatives. It’s an important distinction. One that I’m sure your aware of. On just about any social divide, Koreans will split down the middle and attempt to equilibriate. East West, North South, Socialism Capitalism, traditional culture modern culture, local global, rich poor, good bad, classical music pop music, Christian Buddhist, theists atheists, religious non-religious, pro China pro Japan, pro America anti America, small business big business, day night It’s like an amoeba. Under the right circumstances parts of it will crystallize though.
Koreans are neither pro-China nor pro-Japan. They harbor a great deal of hostility toward the Japanese because of the Japanese occupation of 1910-1945 (never mind there was a good deal of Korean collaboration with the Japanese occupiers). They are also frequently whipped up in anti-Chinese fervor over ancient archaeology. They take great exception to Korean artifacts in what is today Manchuria being co-opted by the Chinese as a part of its culture and history.
P. J. O'Rourke said it best: "They don't like anyone who isn't Korean, and they don't like each other all that much, either. They're hardheaded, hard-drinking, tough little bastards, 'the Irish of Asia.'"
According to the last big Pew study on Asians, Koreans, unlike all other Asians in the U.S., considered race relations in the country to be poor, no doubt because they are in frequent conflict with blacks (and perhaps not coincidentally they are genetically the farthest from sub-Saharan Africans among East Asians as well as having the least amount of Austronesian DNA; in other words, they are pretty close to being pure Siberians in terms of genetics).Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @Hacienda
“white girls love having sex with Black Men. How bout that?”
I notice a lot of your posts have to do with Black male/White female sexual intercourse. Are you one of those beta male White liberals with Homosexual tendencies that have interracial cuckold fantasies ? You are like Chris Matthews who drools and gets a boner at the mere mention of Barack Obama
Thanks.
” Has this always been the case? How has the percentage of violent crime committed by blacks changed in the US since colonial times?”
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2005/10/words-of-wisdom-from-james-q-wilson-on.html
“Thanks.
Koreans are about as Natural Republicans as there are other than not being white, but if the GOP can’t hold them …”
GOP politicians almost never utter the word Asian, let alone talk about trying to get more Asian votes. Even open border Republican politicians never talk about the Asian vote as they are only obsessed with getting the Hispanic vote.
Asians are basically an invisible Minority in the eyes of the GOP. I wonder if it has to do with geography because red states do not have a lot of Asians with the exception of some metropolitan areas in Texas like Dallas and Austin.
In most red states you can go days without seeing a single Asian face.
In California, a lot of things, in particular tax increases, need to pass both chambers of the Legislature with a 2/3 majority.
In 2012, Dems got that 2/3 majority for the first time ever, but just barely. They actually haven't passed any tax increases with their new supermajority because it is so narrow and includes some conservative rural dems, and the real estate and tech booms have fixed the budget on their own.
The GOP has decided to go after several vulnerable hispanic democrats with Asian candidates. Here is the write-up from Daily Kos Elections:California Asians vote as follows:
Vietnamese - Solid Republican now, but trending left
Koreans - Split fairly evenly now, but there's big generational gap so also trending left
Filipinos - Mostly Democrats
Chinese - Don't vote much, but solidly Democrat
Japanese - Not many full Japanese left in California due to intermarriage, but solid Democrat
Native Hawaiian - Solid Democrat
Other Pacific Islander - Solid Democrat except for the evangelical megachurch typesReplies: @Steve Sailer, @Bliss, @Twinkie
Of the major asian ethnicities the viets are the poorest, the most likely to live in public housing, the most likely to collect welfare etc. Interesting that they are also the only solidly republican asians. Hmmmmm….
I had never thought of burly as a derogatory term before today. It always seemed a pretty neutral descriptive term, if anything perhaps verging toward the mildly complimentary (when applied to men)
A burly cop.
A burly bodyguard.
Looks like News International won’t be transferring Kay Burley from Sky News to Fox News then:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kay_Burley
“However your average black is relative to your average white, and is also more ripped.”
“More ripped,” may very well be true, but I think that’s a different issue from raw strength. Ripped has more to do with the amount of body fat you have and how it is distributed.
On body building forums, people sometimes post the picture of the ripped crack head. Which you can find with an image search on those words.
In terms of raw strength, I doubt that the average black man is stronger than the average white man. Not sure about explosive strength — one would think that shot put and discus are all about explosive strength, and these sports seem to be dominated by whites.
On average young black men have a clear but not large advantage in LBM on american white men there are about half an inch shorter then white men but 4 lbs heavier with 1 inch smaller waist, simple observation will indicate that highly muscular almost steroidal seeming builds are more common in black athletes and these numbers corroborate that observation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/01/us/sizing-up-america-signs-of-expansion-from-head-to-toe.html
http://www.halls.md/on/men-height-b.htm
http://www.vdare.com/posts/height-and-weight-new-survey-of-blacks-whites-and-hispanics
There is also the findings on myostatin mutations in sub saharan populations, MAO-A, and anaerobic muscle fiber precentage.
http://jap.physiology.org/content/61/5/1758.
I have done some consultation with an elite training and analysis group who work soley with elite athletes they have found a pattern of differences in force production between races though have not published this data for what would seem to be obvious reason. Basically blacks have the highest combination of quickness and strength while lacking mobility, asians are exceptional at mobility and whites are the most variable in physical type.
I suspect that the current demographics seen in the the NFL, track and MLB exaggerates the black white talent gap and the fact the fastest white sprinters and best white basketball players come from small countries with no african derived populations seems to back this up but I think there is good evidence now to back up the anecdotal observation that this populations have advantages in specific athletic disciplines.
While the black advantage in sports which can be viewed as ritualized violence is not surprising given there greater overall aggressiveness, the two need not necessarily correlate, none of the advantages proposed above necessarily incline blacks to greater aggressiveness except MAO-A which may or may not be an an athletic advantage, studies on testosterone have returned mixed results so I wouldn't state with confidence blacks have higher testosterone.
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2007-0028Replies: @Fenris, @Twinkie, @Twinkie
“Basically blacks have the highest combination of quickness and strength while lacking mobility, asians are exceptional at mobility and whites are the most variable in physical type.”
Black “quickness” is largely muscle-based and is “explosive.” Asian athletes can be exceptionally quick as well, but their advantage is neurological/reaction-based. In other words, their OODA (observe-orient-decide-act) loop, on average, is faster than men of other races. That is why they excel in, and dominate, reaction-based sports like table tennis and Shotokan Karate.
“East West, North South, Socialism Capitalism, traditional culture modern culture, local global, rich poor, good bad, classical music pop music, Christian Buddhist, theists atheists, religious non-religious, pro China pro Japan, pro America anti America, small business big business, day night It’s like an amoeba.”
Koreans are neither pro-China nor pro-Japan. They harbor a great deal of hostility toward the Japanese because of the Japanese occupation of 1910-1945 (never mind there was a good deal of Korean collaboration with the Japanese occupiers). They are also frequently whipped up in anti-Chinese fervor over ancient archaeology. They take great exception to Korean artifacts in what is today Manchuria being co-opted by the Chinese as a part of its culture and history.
P. J. O’Rourke said it best: “They don’t like anyone who isn’t Korean, and they don’t like each other all that much, either. They’re hardheaded, hard-drinking, tough little bastards, ‘the Irish of Asia.’”
According to the last big Pew study on Asians, Koreans, unlike all other Asians in the U.S., considered race relations in the country to be poor, no doubt because they are in frequent conflict with blacks (and perhaps not coincidentally they are genetically the farthest from sub-Saharan Africans among East Asians as well as having the least amount of Austronesian DNA; in other words, they are pretty close to being pure Siberians in terms of genetics).
That's what I've always said about Koreans - they are the most purely Mongoloid of the Asian populations. Even more so than the Mongols themselves, whose conquests probably brought in a lot of Central Asian DNA. And from an HBD perspective it would explain why Koreans have higher IQs than Southeast Asians, and even slightly higher than the Chinese - both of those groups having varying degrees of Austronesian admixture. Interestingly enough they don't seem to have an IQ advantage over the Japanese (per the Lynn study) so the Japanese don't seem to suffer any adverse affects from their Jomon/Ainu admixture in that regard.
I've also long noted that Koreans seem to be overrepresented in Hollywood, at least as far as roles that require Asians go. You are far more likely to see a Korean playing a Chinese, Japanese, or Vietnamese than vice versa. I think this is because Korean physical features tend to align most accurately with what is perceived as the "Oriental" look by Westerners; pale yellow skin, pronounced cheekbones, and the most pronounced epicanthic folds of any Asian groupReplies: @Twinkie
This is probably the 100th post on this, but:
Black women in America tend to be desperate for any male companionship. And black men don’t (usually) guard them jealously. Most black men would be all too happy to hand off an ex-GF to anyone, even whitey.
In California, a lot of things, in particular tax increases, need to pass both chambers of the Legislature with a 2/3 majority.
In 2012, Dems got that 2/3 majority for the first time ever, but just barely. They actually haven't passed any tax increases with their new supermajority because it is so narrow and includes some conservative rural dems, and the real estate and tech booms have fixed the budget on their own.
The GOP has decided to go after several vulnerable hispanic democrats with Asian candidates. Here is the write-up from Daily Kos Elections:California Asians vote as follows:
Vietnamese - Solid Republican now, but trending left
Koreans - Split fairly evenly now, but there's big generational gap so also trending left
Filipinos - Mostly Democrats
Chinese - Don't vote much, but solidly Democrat
Japanese - Not many full Japanese left in California due to intermarriage, but solid Democrat
Native Hawaiian - Solid Democrat
Other Pacific Islander - Solid Democrat except for the evangelical megachurch typesReplies: @Steve Sailer, @Bliss, @Twinkie
“Vietnamese – Solid Republican now, but trending left
Koreans – Split fairly evenly now, but there’s big generational gap so also trending left”
Among Asians, Vietnamese and Koreans are the most likely to vote Republican. While West Coast Asians are becoming ever more SWPL and vote accordingly, in Texas the Vietnamese vote solidly Republican as do Koreans in the Southeast.
However, Republicans appear to be masters at repelling even these groups by alternating between the extremes of unintended hostility and obsequious/counterproductive outreach.
Also, as with whites, religious affiliation has a strong influence on their voting patterns. Traditional Catholic Vietnamese and conservative evangelical Protestant Koreans vote very strongly for the GOP while the religiously unaffiliated tend to vote strongly for the Democrats.
Koreans – Split fairly evenly now, but there’s big generational gap so also trending left"
Among Asians, Vietnamese and Koreans are the most likely to vote Republican. While West Coast Asians are becoming ever more SWPL and vote accordingly, in Texas the Vietnamese vote solidly Republican as do Koreans in the Southeast.
However, Republicans appear to be masters at repelling even these groups by alternating between the extremes of unintended hostility and obsequious/counterproductive outreach.
Also, as with whites, religious affiliation has a strong influence on their voting patterns. Traditional Catholic Vietnamese and conservative evangelical Protestant Koreans vote very strongly for the GOP while the religiously unaffiliated tend to vote strongly for the Democrats.Replies: @Steve Sailer
My late Japanese-American neighbor Bill was a registered Republican despite having a day job as a unionized LAUSD schoolteacher and a long career as a character actor in movies, TV, and commercials. But the whole family were church-going Protestants.
Mainline or evangelical?
While I see little evidence of Kulturkampf among blacks and Hispanics in this country, I find that that conflict in spades among East Asians in both America and Asia as with whites here. Among whites and East Asians religious, better yet Christian, affiliation seems to impart a powerful cultural influence and certainly on political choices.
Exactly. Whites are physically stronger, particularly in upper body strength. No black man has squatted 1000 lbs while several white men have. No black has raw benched over 700lb, no black has deadlifted over 900.
““Vietnamese – Solid Republican now, but trending left
Koreans – Split fairly evenly now, but there’s big generational gap so also trending left”
Among Asians, Vietnamese and Koreans are the most likely to vote Republican. While West Coast Asians are becoming ever more SWPL and vote accordingly, in Texas the Vietnamese vote solidly Republican as do Koreans in the Southeast.
However, Republicans appear to be masters at repelling even these groups by alternating between the extremes of unintended hostility and obsequious/counterproductive outreach.
Also, as with whites, religious affiliation has a strong influence on their voting patterns. Traditional Catholic Vietnamese and conservative evangelical Protestant Koreans vote very strongly for the GOP while the religiously unaffiliated tend to vote strongly for the Democrats.”
Yet the irony is that the most famous Asian Republican in the Conservative movement is neither Korean or Vietnamese, but a Pinay woman named Michelle Malkin. She runs a Conservative website called Twitchy, which I frequent often in the comments section. She also writes columns for VDare. I wonder if Steve Sailer has ever met her ?
I talked to Ms. Malkin once. And that's all I'll say about that.
For my money, the most entertaining ethnic Asian pol in America was definitely Sheriff Harry Lee of Jefferson Parish, Louisiana:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLsY6d2FbQw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnkfFHEAcrU
"If there are some young blacks driving a car late at night in a predominantly white neighborhood, they will be stopped. There's a pretty good chance they're up to no good. It's obvious two young blacks driving a rinky-dink car in a predominantly white neighborhood—I'm not talking about on the main thoroughfare, but if they're on one of the side streets and they're cruising around—they'll be stopped."
That guy was something.
Look at Superbowl champions Seattle Seahawks an overwhelmingly black team: all four of the quarterbacks on it's roster are black. I predicted their Superbowl win even before the playoffs last year. Now I predict that they will be the first team to win the Superbowl 3 years in a row...Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous
Wrong about seahawks, Wilson will be done for the year by January and the backups will be exposed, as will their coach, as the morons that they are. Football, at QB, is about brains and grit as well as physical skill of course. Wilson is smart but he has been playing above his true skill level, expect his Icarus moment:)
The exception proves the rule.
Spoken like a weak cuckold or latent homosexual. Many American Whites, unlike European Whites, are afraid because they have been trained to be afraid of negroes
Ripped, of course, refers to someone with low body fat. The FACT is those of European descent, in particular Northern European & Eastern European descent DOMINATE the strength sports and increasingly the heavier weights in boxing. The anti-Klitschko, negro worshipping crowd can talk all day about how Whites only dominate boxing because blacks are being channeled into football and basketball that would otherwise box but the FACT is either Klitschko would dominate in any era of boxing.
I notice a lot of your posts have to do with Black male/White female sexual intercourse. Are you one of those beta male White liberals with Homosexual tendencies that have interracial cuckold fantasies ? You are like Chris Matthews who drools and gets a boner at the mere mention of Barack ObamaReplies: @PaulieBoy
You nailed it Jefferson. I made the same point in an earlier post. Ted and his ilk have issues with latent homosexuality.
“But the whole family were church-going Protestants.”
Mainline or evangelical?
While I see little evidence of Kulturkampf among blacks and Hispanics in this country, I find that that conflict in spades among East Asians in both America and Asia as with whites here. Among whites and East Asians religious, better yet Christian, affiliation seems to impart a powerful cultural influence and certainly on political choices.
@Dirk owned Lebron and Wade
In the last decade Greco wrestling was dominated by Lopez, a black cuban wrestler.
Talking about racial strength difference especially in martial arts on should not forget Teddy Riner. He has won everything in judo, and is still quite young. He is an absolutely outstanidng athlete. His physical advantage over his oppenents reminds of the advantage Karelin had upon his oppononets. While the heavyweight judokas are rather burly guys, weighing around 120-130 kg with a little fat in the belly, Riner also weighs 120-130 kg, but is taller and RIPPED.
I am not sure how he would do in olympic wrestling, and he certainly would do bad in olympic weighlifting, but I guess he could immediately become heavyweight champion in the UFC if he only tried.
Here is a picture where you can see his wrist/hand/forearm compared to that of a pn average guy.
http://www.oradejudo.ro/2012/07/ti-ar-placea-sa-l-ai-pe-teddy-ca-antrenor-personal/
LOL.
“Black women in America tend to be desperate for any male companionship. And black men don’t (usually) guard them jealously”.
You try approaching a black woman with any black men around (even if the proud black man has a white girl on his arm) and you’ll soon find out how untrue that is.
“Far more blacks tend to have glass jaws”
The opposite of the truth, they are harder to knock out on average. Boxers’ trainers often advise punching to the body against blacks. You wouldn’t want to head butt a black. While he was resisting arrest for FRACTURING a cop’s kneecap by shoving him, Sonny Liston kept fighting after hickory nightsticks were broken over his head. The last juice free white hope Gerry Cooney was knocked down in the second round with a punch to the temple by light hitting Larry Holmes, then he got KOed by little Michel Spinks. The Klitchkos, like all top level boxers nowadays, are juiced to the gills , one got caught for it before turning pro. Lance Armstrong was said to have superior mental strength, at one time.
“In terms of raw strength, I doubt that the average black man is stronger than the average white man. Not sure about explosive strength — one would think that shot put and discus are all about explosive strength, and these sports seem to be dominated by whites.”
Don’t forget that blacks also have denser bones, which explains their lack of aptitude at swimming. I wonder if it partially explains why they are so good at boxing. I imagine it hurts a lot more to get hit by someone with denser bones.
The heavyweight average is 7.69, Pacquiao has an 8-inch wrist.
Koreans are neither pro-China nor pro-Japan. They harbor a great deal of hostility toward the Japanese because of the Japanese occupation of 1910-1945 (never mind there was a good deal of Korean collaboration with the Japanese occupiers). They are also frequently whipped up in anti-Chinese fervor over ancient archaeology. They take great exception to Korean artifacts in what is today Manchuria being co-opted by the Chinese as a part of its culture and history.
P. J. O'Rourke said it best: "They don't like anyone who isn't Korean, and they don't like each other all that much, either. They're hardheaded, hard-drinking, tough little bastards, 'the Irish of Asia.'"
According to the last big Pew study on Asians, Koreans, unlike all other Asians in the U.S., considered race relations in the country to be poor, no doubt because they are in frequent conflict with blacks (and perhaps not coincidentally they are genetically the farthest from sub-Saharan Africans among East Asians as well as having the least amount of Austronesian DNA; in other words, they are pretty close to being pure Siberians in terms of genetics).Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @Hacienda
“According to the last big Pew study on Asians, Koreans, unlike all other Asians in the U.S., considered race relations in the country to be poor, no doubt because they are in frequent conflict with blacks (and perhaps not coincidentally they are genetically the farthest from sub-Saharan Africans among East Asians as well as having the least amount of Austronesian DNA; in other words, they are pretty close to being pure Siberians in terms of genetics).”
That’s what I’ve always said about Koreans – they are the most purely Mongoloid of the Asian populations. Even more so than the Mongols themselves, whose conquests probably brought in a lot of Central Asian DNA. And from an HBD perspective it would explain why Koreans have higher IQs than Southeast Asians, and even slightly higher than the Chinese – both of those groups having varying degrees of Austronesian admixture. Interestingly enough they don’t seem to have an IQ advantage over the Japanese (per the Lynn study) so the Japanese don’t seem to suffer any adverse affects from their Jomon/Ainu admixture in that regard.
I’ve also long noted that Koreans seem to be overrepresented in Hollywood, at least as far as roles that require Asians go. You are far more likely to see a Korean playing a Chinese, Japanese, or Vietnamese than vice versa. I think this is because Korean physical features tend to align most accurately with what is perceived as the “Oriental” look by Westerners; pale yellow skin, pronounced cheekbones, and the most pronounced epicanthic folds of any Asian group
The Korean Wave has had some successes in Europe and Latin America as well, but the Anglosphere appears quite resistant to its charms.
“I’m convinced that some of this idolization of black men’s bodies – So strong! So athletic! Such excellent street fighters! – is rooted in sexual jealousy: they can have our women, we can’t have theirs.”
You’re hilarious. Nobody wants black women.
You’re overthinking. Its more likely that someone at the Times does not understand what burly means and googled it and finding that its been used to describe other black men assumes its racist. This catches the Times out because accusations of racism are always made in good faith while claims of not being racist are always lies.
“white girls love having sex with Black Men. How bout that?”
Talk about unconscious bias. Notice how ted, when, Tourette’s-like, he keeps repeating the same hooey, capitalizes both “Black” and “Men” but fails to capitalize either “white” or “girl.”
Anyone who has grown up in a mixed race neighborhood knows with certainty that black kids are, on average, both faster, more physically coordinated, and more robust/stronger than white kids. This is obvious and really shouldn’t be up for debate any more than other HBD topics.
Commenters pointing to strongman competitions and the like are daft. Blacks aren’t into powerlifting (and why would they be, when the glamorous major sports are theirs for the taking?). If anything, blacks are over-represented in weightlifting given the low levels of participation. These commenters are also forgetting to mention the elephant in the room – every elite strongman/powerlifter, yes every one, is on a complicated PED cocktail. It takes a certain IQ to balance these cycles correctly. I would not expect someone with a double digit IQ to be able to research and maintain the PED regimen necessary to compete at a high level in strength competitions on their own. Since there is no money in these niche strongman sports, the competitors largely have to play doctor themselves.
Black men are physically more attractive than white, being better built and more muscular — and usually able to beat the stuffing out of white men, which whites of both sexes know. They are also unapologetically masculine, more assertive, and often charming. Caucasian men these days tend to be neutered and carefully inoffensive.It is easy to see how a white woman who wanted a masculine man would find a good-looking black guy appealing.
"In terms of raw strength, I doubt that the average black man is stronger than the average white man. Not sure about explosive strength — one would think that shot put and discus are all about explosive strength, and these sports seem to be dominated by whites."
Don't forget that blacks also have denser bones, which explains their lack of aptitude at swimming. I wonder if it partially explains why they are so good at boxing. I imagine it hurts a lot more to get hit by someone with denser bones.Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Twinkie
However, West African Blacks have more fast twitch muscle fibers in their bodies (both male and females) than whites (and than East African Blacks), and AdAms are predominantly West African Blacks, as were all slaves transported to the Americas.
“Racism” – a dirty word for a clean thing.
Very silly of you to call a coach who has reached the pinnacle of both college and professional football a moron. And Russel Wilson is a very solid quarterback, who became a Super Bowl champion in only his second season as a pro. You are indulging in wishful/hateful thinking instead of rational/moral thinking. I see bitter, teeth-grinding frustration heading your way.
I remember when Randall Cunningham came along, the big quarterback revolution was just around the corner. And it still is.
No, American coaches do not teach to avoid head punches against black fighters and go to the body instead! Where on earth did you hear this? I am someone who trained with a legit world class fighter for years and this never came up, though I did watch him destroy a number of black American fighters to the point that they refused to spar with him.
The state of coaching in America is so poor that body punching isn’t really taught effectively anyway. What is taught when fighting most black American heavyweights is what the Euro fighters who dominate them do: basic fundamentals like the jab because American black fighters basically don’t have those skills anyway. Furthermore, black American fighters are more likely than any race to be complete curs and stop fighting when they are in there with someone better than them. I don’t know how many times I have seen this personally in sparring or amatuer fights.
You are dismissing the klitchkos because they have done steroids? Then you need to dismiss pretty much all sports, including boxers like Tyson and Lewis. Regardless, the klitchkos have tremendous skill and athleticism that mere steroids alone could not create. They also are quicker and stronger than all of the American black fighters they take on – so much for black superior genetics! There is one recent guy though who had zero signs of steroids, and that is Calzaghe. He destroyed all the black Americans he fought without much trouble.
Holmes himself has said the klitchkos would have destroyed him, just like Hagler said calzaghe would more than hold his own with his great era of fighters. Looking back through history, the worst matchup for the Klitchkos would have been Dempsey. The Ali and Liston type fighters would have been destroyed against the klitchkos. It is no coincidence that three fighters were not raised in America and are not brainwashed into thinking they are inferior just like the sailer nba analysis has shown.
Yes, Liston was a tough guy in the one example you cite. But of fighters today, blacks tend to be knocked out at higher rates because of poor chins than the other races. Lennox Lewis, Floyd Mayweather, Paul Williams, and plenty of other examples are proof of this. I think maybe you need to watch the sport today compared to whatever you watched in the 70s – the free flow of former soviet bloc fighters and other Europeans dominating the Americans has been eye opening to the black supremacist crowd.
It should also be remembered that even in the late 60s/early 70s that everyone cites as the best heavy era, they did not have to compete against Cuban or soviet bloc fighters. The Cuban heavyweight alone would have destroyed Ali within a few rounds bc he was better and more powerful at everything all did with much higher technical skill, for instance.
An awful lot of people break their hands punching in street fights.
Tyson and Tua are probably the best steroid free heavyweights ever. Steroids give the biggest framed heavyweights like Lewis and Klitschko a relatively large boost. All natural , they'd be gangling.
Dempsey ( a pimp) was thrashed by a black fighter, and altered management when it was suggested he fight another. He probably used a knuckleduster of some kind to win the title. He was beaten by little Gene Tunney. Back when American whites were often boxers, the best American whites couldn't live live with black fighters. Now we are in an era where boxing is far less commonly practiced. (Victor MacLauchlan boxed an exhibition with Jack Johnson Bob Hope and Dean Martin both boxed pro a little, Robert Mitchum had a fair number of fights, Jack Palance fought Joe Baski (Bob Hope had an act with siamese twins BTW).
Calzaghe beat Roy Jones yet Jones certainly used steroids. If you go by records Calzaghe was better than Archie Moore ha ha . Moore invented a whole style of boxing was a light heavyweight who fought heavyweights (and he would have KOed Marciano if the ref hadn't given him an improper standing count and wasted time wiping Marciano's gloves. )
someone asked about the OED definition/etymology of burly. i’ve got the New Shorter OED here:
– from late middle english: “Sturdy; big and strong; massively built.” R. Hayman: “The big, burly, bull-necked, … successful business man.”
– from late sixteenth century: “Domineering; forceful; bluff, forthright.” Geoffrey Hill: “Against the burly air I strode.”
i think we should bring back the usage from middle english to mid-seventeenth century – it’s not offensive at all:
– “Stately, dignified, imposing.”
for brawny the OED’s got (also from middle english): “Characterized by brawn; strong, muscular.”
like the paper towel brand. (~_^)
and brawn (middle english again) is: “Muscle, lean flesh, esp. of the arm, leg, or thumb; *loosely* muscularity, physical strength.”
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_medalists_in_Greco-Roman_wrestling
Check out the actual winners of Olympic medals in Greco wrestling. Yes, there might be an exception here and there with a Cuban winning a couple medals, but for the vast majority of time it appears to be white wrestlers. The cubans also have the excellent soviet coaching system and put a grrat deal of resources into events like this and boxing. But even in thr superheavy class that a cuban won in the last two olympics, it was dominated by whites for decades before and the other top finishers even in these last two events tended to be white. It is like pointing out Peyton Hillis or the Stanford running back as proof that the RB position in the nfl is not dominated by blacks: exceptions don’t prove the rule.
Freestyle wrestling is dominated by muslims from Iran, Turkey, Central Asia, Caucasus and Russia with the exception of black american world champion Jordan Burroughs.
As for boxing it is laughable to deny that blacks have historically dominated this sport. The experts at ESPN rank black boxers as the best 4 of all time and 6 of the top ten (one mestizo is also on that list):
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/greatest/featureVideo?page=greatest110
I’m a big Russell Wilson fan because he’s not that much taller than Doug Flutie. Still, I’d be surprised if he evolves into a dominant Drew Brees type quarterback. Right now he doesn’t need to be because his defense is so good.
Just off the top of my head, here are some examples in recent boxing about blacks having weak jaws:
Floyd Maywewther has a horrible chin for a top level fighter
Lennox Lewis always had a bad chin even in his prime – a guy who was literally a crack head knocked him out with one punch
Roy Jones Jr had a really bad chin to the point that a journeymen light heavy almost killed him with one punch years ago. I was watching live and thought Glenn Johnson had killed him in all seriousness!
So those are the best black middleweight, welterweight, and heavyweight fighters of the last decade and all of them have awful chins. It is also why they all had so many boring fights where they played it safely even against mediocre opposition.
If anything, things are getting worse. The best American prospect at heavy is Deontay Wilder, and he has a worse chin than everyone above. There is video on YouTube of an amateur fight where a much smaller Russian brutally knocks him out with what appears to be a half decent shot, but nothing special. Deontay also was knocked down by some tomato can who had about as many wins as losses. It is why he is fighting people in his 30th pro fight who most good prospects take on in their first five or six, and even then he doesnt look all that great. Also, a number of the fights look very suspicious in nature with how the opponent goes down.
Even after wladamir retires, black Americans will still be dominated by eastern bloc white fighters at the heavyweight division.
As I pointed out, black male estrogen levels are only 7.8% closer to the lowest white female estrogen levels than white males
A stupid attempt at evasion. The fact remains that black men have higher levels of estrogen than white men along with identical levels of testosterone.
you forgot to mention DHT which is much more potent than testosterone and the difference in black levels of DHT compared to whites is similar to those estrogen levels you are so hung up on.
Your lack of self-awareness is staggering, considering how obsessively hung up you are on trying to find hormonal differences between black and white men which favor blacks, at least in your own eyes.
One question for you. Are you an African American? That would be a useful explanatory variable.
@ Dirk owned Lebron and Wade
yes you are of course right about that. Greco wrestling is dominated by people from the caucasus region, Iran, Turkey, Russia. But still in those sports the heavyweight division is somehow always the most important, and even if it is an exception it is remarkable
speaking about racial strength differences, I have one awkward but serious question:
who do think is on average stronger, white females or east asian males?
Koreans are neither pro-China nor pro-Japan. They harbor a great deal of hostility toward the Japanese because of the Japanese occupation of 1910-1945 (never mind there was a good deal of Korean collaboration with the Japanese occupiers). They are also frequently whipped up in anti-Chinese fervor over ancient archaeology. They take great exception to Korean artifacts in what is today Manchuria being co-opted by the Chinese as a part of its culture and history.
P. J. O'Rourke said it best: "They don't like anyone who isn't Korean, and they don't like each other all that much, either. They're hardheaded, hard-drinking, tough little bastards, 'the Irish of Asia.'"
According to the last big Pew study on Asians, Koreans, unlike all other Asians in the U.S., considered race relations in the country to be poor, no doubt because they are in frequent conflict with blacks (and perhaps not coincidentally they are genetically the farthest from sub-Saharan Africans among East Asians as well as having the least amount of Austronesian DNA; in other words, they are pretty close to being pure Siberians in terms of genetics).Replies: @Hapalong Cassidy, @Hacienda
Pro China/Japan in the economic, cultural sense. China is largest trade partner with Korea by far. US is second, Japan third. This is a very recent developement, last 20 years. Of course there is a historical bond that includes culture, philosophy, arts, alliances in wars. Especially, China/Korea beating back Japan all the way back to 1592. Yes, that dynamic goes that far back. There’s a city in Korea, Andong, that is touted as the Confucian heart of Korea. You’re E.Asian, so you know Confucianism still has a large planet gravitational effect over China, Korea. Less Japan, which sees itself as a more or less independent, Shinto actor in E.Asia. Politically, the differences are very great, but not so great that you can’t find mediating ground. Again due to moderating effects of culture, economics. There’s also a large Korean speaking immigrant population in Manchuria (especially autonomous Yanbian) on top of the native ethnically Korean population that goes back into pre-history. Manchuria (Goguryeo) is part of Korea’s founding history as a player in the Three Kingdoms period.
On the Japan side, you have large Korean population in Japan. Japan being Japanese/Shinto, don’t want Koreans to naturalize. The Zainichi don’t want to naturalize either. There’s a wonderful Korean Buddhist university in Kyoto, btw. Yeah, Koreans are conflicted about Japan. But gen Y, Z don’t really care about colonial history. Many learn Japanese, admire the country. Why shouldn’t they?
Not saying Koreans are politically favorable to Japan/China. Just that for each Korean that likes/hates China, you’ll find one that likes/hates Japan.
The P.J. O’Rourke comment is outdated and just wrong to begin with. Especially coming from a snarky Lampoon comic looking for one-liners and pissy observations. The Seoul/Busan highway being expanded from 2 lanes to 4 lanes, improved rail system and end of tolls changed everything.
The misnamed sport of powerlifting is an illustration of this. It should be called "strength lifting" because it is really a test of strength. Olympic weightlifting, snatch, clean & jerk, deserves the name powerlifting more than does powerlifting. Though there have been many truly great black powerlifters (Lamar Gant, an extraordinary physical specimen) and Big Jim Williams, for example, whites are usually the champions in the sport. But take an event that requires that you be strong and able to explode, there you'll find blacks predominating. Exceptions abound, blah blah. But if Steve used the word "power" rather than "strength" in describing what he's talking about, he'd be bang on the mark.Replies: @SportsFan
Thank you, finally someone set the record straight!
People confuse speed-strength and limit strength all the time. West Africans are better at the former, Europeans at the latter. Yet people on this and similar boards engage in African worship, claiming that “blacks are faster and stronger”. There are huge differences between “blacks”, with West and East Africans being on opposite side of the speed-endurance spectrum.
Yes, “blacks” (of different origin) are faster in short and very long distances – but not medium distances. And they are not stronger in general. Speaking of just American blacks (predominantly West African), here is a case in point:
Check out the NFL combine bench press results. Despite (I think) there being somewhat more blacks in the line positions, which dominate the BP event, highest rep records are typically set by whites (or Samoans).
How many whites to do you see winning the 40-yard-dash and vertical jump events in the NFL combine?
I’m going to break my own ban on commenting here re Ted – most readers/commenters here, obviously, do not also frequent VoxDay’s blog. Ted was a frequent troll there until banned (and continues to reoffend under different pseudonyms). He is a self-identified Jewish gay leftist. It seems fitting he’s made this his new home.
Check out the actual winners of Olympic medals in Greco wrestling. Yes, there might be an exception here and there with a Cuban winning a couple medals, but for the vast majority of time it appears to be white wrestlers. The cubans also have the excellent soviet coaching system and put a grrat deal of resources into events like this and boxing. But even in thr superheavy class that a cuban won in the last two olympics, it was dominated by whites for decades before and the other top finishers even in these last two events tended to be white. It is like pointing out Peyton Hillis or the Stanford running back as proof that the RB position in the nfl is not dominated by blacks: exceptions don't prove the rule.Replies: @Bliss
Yeah check it out yourself. The biggest name in greco-roman wrestling today is the black Cuban Mijain Lopez who has 2 olympic golds and 4 world championships.
Freestyle wrestling is dominated by muslims from Iran, Turkey, Central Asia, Caucasus and Russia with the exception of black american world champion Jordan Burroughs.
As for boxing it is laughable to deny that blacks have historically dominated this sport. The experts at ESPN rank black boxers as the best 4 of all time and 6 of the top ten (one mestizo is also on that list):
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/greatest/featureVideo?page=greatest110
A stupid attempt at evasion. The fact remains that black men have higher levels of estrogen than white men along with identical levels of testosterone.
you forgot to mention DHT which is much more potent than testosterone and the difference in black levels of DHT compared to whites is similar to those estrogen levels you are so hung up on.
Your lack of self-awareness is staggering, considering how obsessively hung up you are on trying to find hormonal differences between black and white men which favor blacks, at least in your own eyes.Replies: @Hard Line Realist
And AfAm women have higher levels of estrogen than white women, which seemingly has nothing to do with femininity because black women are not. Hell, even black men prefer white women. Also, AfAms have similar levels of testosterone as whites, not identical.
You seem unable to understand that intelligent people look for explanatory variables, not something that favors one racial group or another. It is highly likely that elevated estrogen levels was selected for in West Africa and it would be useful to know why.
One question for you. Are you an African American? That would be a useful explanatory variable.
The ultimate show of muscle is Bodybuilding. Guess who has taken over there:
http://www.theshadowleague.com/articles/newsflash-black-men-have-taken-over-bodybuilding
Six of the Top 10 finalists in the 2011 Mr. Olympia contest were black. 2012? Seven of the Top 10 finalists in the 2012 Mr. Olympia contest were black. That’s some serious black excellence, folks. No one talks about this, but the only bodybuilder to ever defeat Schwarzenegger, head-to-head for the Mr. Olympia title, was the late great Sergio Oliva who won three times from ’67 to ’69. Digging deeper, of the 13 Mr. Olympia winners, ever, six are black, with five of them winning multiple times, including Lee Haney and Ronnie Coleman who each won an unprecedented eight times.
The most brutal sport of all MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) is also disproportionately dominated by blacks despite non-blacks constituting the overwhelming proportion of contestants. Here is ESPNs list of the top ten pound-for-pound martial artists:
http://espn.go.com/mma/rankings
The top 3 are black. Four of the top ten are blacks and three are mestizos.
but the heavyweight champions in MMA have always been white. Also in that top-ten pound-for-pound list most "blacks" have maximum 50% west-african ancestry.Replies: @Bliss
If any ethnic group is disproportionately represented, it is the Brazilians and that has a lot to do with the Gracie family from Brazil being the fighting founders of the UFC.
Compared to boxing, MMA is much whiter. One of the main reasons for this is that one major pipeline into the sport is collegiate wrestling, which is a heavily white and Midwestern (with nods to Oklahoma and Arizona) sport.
http://www.theshadowleague.com/articles/newsflash-black-men-have-taken-over-bodybuilding
Six of the Top 10 finalists in the 2011 Mr. Olympia contest were black. 2012? Seven of the Top 10 finalists in the 2012 Mr. Olympia contest were black. That’s some serious black excellence, folks. No one talks about this, but the only bodybuilder to ever defeat Schwarzenegger, head-to-head for the Mr. Olympia title, was the late great Sergio Oliva who won three times from ’67 to ’69. Digging deeper, of the 13 Mr. Olympia winners, ever, six are black, with five of them winning multiple times, including Lee Haney and Ronnie Coleman who each won an unprecedented eight times.
The most brutal sport of all MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) is also disproportionately dominated by blacks despite non-blacks constituting the overwhelming proportion of contestants. Here is ESPNs list of the top ten pound-for-pound martial artists:
http://espn.go.com/mma/rankings
The top 3 are black. Four of the top ten are blacks and three are mestizos.Replies: @Erik Sieven, @Twinkie
but the heavyweight champions in MMA have always been white. Also in that top-ten pound-for-pound list most “blacks” have maximum 50% west-african ancestry.
None of the top names in various sports I mentioned above is anywhere close to 50% white. The top ranked martial artist Jon Jones for example looks around 90% african.
What about “hefty” instead of burly?
There is always "Zaftig."
“Black men are physically more attractive than white, ”
Black men are often see as having more swag and charisma on average than White men, but I would not say that Black men on average have more handsome looking faces than White men.
I have seen more Black men with ugly looking mugs like Idi Amin than I have Denzel Washington looking Brothas.
But many times charisma and swag can make up for ugliness when trying to pick up women.
http://www.theshadowleague.com/articles/newsflash-black-men-have-taken-over-bodybuilding
Six of the Top 10 finalists in the 2011 Mr. Olympia contest were black. 2012? Seven of the Top 10 finalists in the 2012 Mr. Olympia contest were black. That’s some serious black excellence, folks. No one talks about this, but the only bodybuilder to ever defeat Schwarzenegger, head-to-head for the Mr. Olympia title, was the late great Sergio Oliva who won three times from ’67 to ’69. Digging deeper, of the 13 Mr. Olympia winners, ever, six are black, with five of them winning multiple times, including Lee Haney and Ronnie Coleman who each won an unprecedented eight times.
The most brutal sport of all MMA (Mixed Martial Arts) is also disproportionately dominated by blacks despite non-blacks constituting the overwhelming proportion of contestants. Here is ESPNs list of the top ten pound-for-pound martial artists:
http://espn.go.com/mma/rankings
The top 3 are black. Four of the top ten are blacks and three are mestizos.Replies: @Erik Sieven, @Twinkie
Here are the official rankings from the UFC: http://www.ufc.com/rankings
If any ethnic group is disproportionately represented, it is the Brazilians and that has a lot to do with the Gracie family from Brazil being the fighting founders of the UFC.
Compared to boxing, MMA is much whiter. One of the main reasons for this is that one major pipeline into the sport is collegiate wrestling, which is a heavily white and Midwestern (with nods to Oklahoma and Arizona) sport.
They aspire to a higher standard. Don’t want to be nothing but Dem poors
“What about “hefty” instead of burly?”
There is always “Zaftig.”
Another one: The biggest name in Judo is the black frenchman Teddy Riner Olympic gold medalist and 6 time World Champion.
http://lovejudomag.com/2013/10/10/gerbi-and-riner-named-the-best-judoka-at-this-years-world-championships/
Judo heroes Teddy Riner and Yarden Gerbi have been selected as the best male and best female judoka respectively from the 2013 World Championships where both judoka won gold…….. During the 2013 World Titles London Olympic champion Teddy Riner at age 24, won his sixth world title.Teddy Riner is fast becoming one of the best Judoka in the history of the sport with a total mat time of only 10 minutes and 57.
Teddy is a massive powerhouse and at times looks almost bored while fighting his opponents. Who will take Teddy’s crown in the future. Is he unstoppable?
So currently the top boxer (Mayweather), the top mixed martial artist (Jon Jones), the top judoka (Teddy Riner), the top greco-roman wrestler (Mijain Lopez), top bodybuilder (Ronnie Coleman) in the world are all black.
The best Judo teams are fielded by Japan, Russia, France, South Korea and Germany. These teams are overwhelmingly European or Asian.Replies: @Bliss
but the heavyweight champions in MMA have always been white. Also in that top-ten pound-for-pound list most "blacks" have maximum 50% west-african ancestry.Replies: @Bliss
Both your points are false. The current MMA heavyweight champion in the UFC, Cain Velasquez is a mestizo or more likely tri-racial. He as a huge brown pride tattoo on his chest.
None of the top names in various sports I mentioned above is anywhere close to 50% white. The top ranked martial artist Jon Jones for example looks around 90% african.
Bliss,
First of all, don’t trust what the “experts” at espn have to say about anything fight related. Most are completely clueless. MMA is an example you gave?!?!? I avoided it bc it is such niche sport, but whites have almost completely dominated that sport. It was only fairly recently that blacks even had long champions, and a lot of that was due to weak competition in UFC weight classes. The other problem is that most American fans think mma = the UFC, when for years and years it was second tier to Pride.
Anyway, of the only two long term black champs in the sport, Anderson Silva was just destroyed twice in a row by a white wrestler. Jon Jones should have lost his last right against the tall white fighter from Europe who dominated him but gave him a decision. Both fighters have nothing on Fedor in his prime, who truly was the best fighter ever.
Fedor walked around at the same weight as Anderson and smaller than jones, yet fought larger heavyweights his entire career instead of cutting a lot of weight. Almost all of the all time great mma fighters have been white, with very few exceptions for black fighters. This is prob one of the worst sports to make this argument about black genetic superiority. The best fighters in mma history have been people like fedor, GSP, Hughes, couture, Liddell, Minotauro (mestizo), and then you can add in people like Anderson silva and jones, though both looked horrible in their last fights and one received a gift decision. Anderson silva was also submitted and looked bad in his Pride fights before going on to dominate the weak 185 UFC class.
As far as all time boxing lists, most of those are written by clueless nerds who haven’t boxed a day in their lives. Regardless, the era of Ali and Frazier was one where they did not have to fight the best possible opponents like in the former Soviet Union and Cuba. I was talking about today, where the best middleweight, light heavy, and heavyweight are all non black. Not to mention that the best 168 pound fighter of all time, calzaghe, just retired a few years ago. And the sport of boxing at middleweight and up is turning more and more white as the former soviet bloc fighters increase their dominance. Why is that if blacks dominate it today? Heavyweight Greco seems to be a big deal to you, but not the heavyweight champs of boxing for the last decade.
As far as wrestling, notice that I specifically pointed out Greco bc it is more strength based. Even still, it is dominated by non blacks because those of us who have trained with high level fighters first hand can tell a giant difference between speed and mat strength. That is why with very few exceptions, whites and caucus region nations dominate at Greco. Blacks will continue to dominate at short sprinting events. Whites will continue to increase their dominance at boxing.
The state of coaching in America is so poor that body punching isn't really taught effectively anyway. What is taught when fighting most black American heavyweights is what the Euro fighters who dominate them do: basic fundamentals like the jab because American black fighters basically don't have those skills anyway. Furthermore, black American fighters are more likely than any race to be complete curs and stop fighting when they are in there with someone better than them. I don't know how many times I have seen this personally in sparring or amatuer fights.
You are dismissing the klitchkos because they have done steroids? Then you need to dismiss pretty much all sports, including boxers like Tyson and Lewis. Regardless, the klitchkos have tremendous skill and athleticism that mere steroids alone could not create. They also are quicker and stronger than all of the American black fighters they take on - so much for black superior genetics! There is one recent guy though who had zero signs of steroids, and that is Calzaghe. He destroyed all the black Americans he fought without much trouble.
Holmes himself has said the klitchkos would have destroyed him, just like Hagler said calzaghe would more than hold his own with his great era of fighters. Looking back through history, the worst matchup for the Klitchkos would have been Dempsey. The Ali and Liston type fighters would have been destroyed against the klitchkos. It is no coincidence that three fighters were not raised in America and are not brainwashed into thinking they are inferior just like the sailer nba analysis has shown.
Yes, Liston was a tough guy in the one example you cite. But of fighters today, blacks tend to be knocked out at higher rates because of poor chins than the other races. Lennox Lewis, Floyd Mayweather, Paul Williams, and plenty of other examples are proof of this. I think maybe you need to watch the sport today compared to whatever you watched in the 70s - the free flow of former soviet bloc fighters and other Europeans dominating the Americans has been eye opening to the black supremacist crowd.
It should also be remembered that even in the late 60s/early 70s that everyone cites as the best heavy era, they did not have to compete against Cuban or soviet bloc fighters. The Cuban heavyweight alone would have destroyed Ali within a few rounds bc he was better and more powerful at everything all did with much higher technical skill, for instance.Replies: @Sean
I said on average blacks are more difficult to knock out and I stand by that. I said their heavier bones has a lot to do with their various attributes ( physical and otherwise) and I stand by that .
An awful lot of people break their hands punching in street fights.
Tyson and Tua are probably the best steroid free heavyweights ever. Steroids give the biggest framed heavyweights like Lewis and Klitschko a relatively large boost. All natural , they’d be gangling.
Dempsey ( a pimp) was thrashed by a black fighter, and altered management when it was suggested he fight another. He probably used a knuckleduster of some kind to win the title. He was beaten by little Gene Tunney. Back when American whites were often boxers, the best American whites couldn’t live live with black fighters. Now we are in an era where boxing is far less commonly practiced. (Victor MacLauchlan boxed an exhibition with Jack Johnson Bob Hope and Dean Martin both boxed pro a little, Robert Mitchum had a fair number of fights, Jack Palance fought Joe Baski (Bob Hope had an act with siamese twins BTW).
Calzaghe beat Roy Jones yet Jones certainly used steroids. If you go by records Calzaghe was better than Archie Moore ha ha . Moore invented a whole style of boxing was a light heavyweight who fought heavyweights (and he would have KOed Marciano if the ref hadn’t given him an improper standing count and wasted time wiping Marciano’s gloves. )
Yes blacks are under-represented in weightlifting which is increasingly dominated by east asians. But here is a notable exception:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Davis_%28weightlifter%29
John Henry Davis (January 12, 1921 – July 13, 1984) was an Olympic super-heavyweight weightlifter for the United States. John Davis first gained prominence by winning the world light heavyweight crown as a 17-year-old school boy in 1938 at Vienna, Austria. In all, John won gold at the 1948 and 1952 summer Olympic Games, as well as 6 World Weightlifting Championships and 12 national championships.[1] He was unbeaten from 1938 to 1953.[2] ……..John Davis won gold medals in the U.S. Senior Nationals 12 times, a record no other heavyweight has even come close to equaling.[3]
At his peak, Davis held all the world records in his class. Of his many thrilling performances, perhaps his clean and jerk of 402 pounds in the 1951 Senior Nationals held in Los Angeles, California will be best remembered because it marked the first time more than 400 pounds was lifted in this fashion on a standard Olympic Barbell.[4]
Very impressive resume. He was a world champion as a teenager and set records as a senior. Has anyone else ever had such a lengthy illustrious career in weightlifting?
http://lovejudomag.com/2013/10/10/gerbi-and-riner-named-the-best-judoka-at-this-years-world-championships/
Judo heroes Teddy Riner and Yarden Gerbi have been selected as the best male and best female judoka respectively from the 2013 World Championships where both judoka won gold........ During the 2013 World Titles London Olympic champion Teddy Riner at age 24, won his sixth world title.Teddy Riner is fast becoming one of the best Judoka in the history of the sport with a total mat time of only 10 minutes and 57.
Teddy is a massive powerhouse and at times looks almost bored while fighting his opponents. Who will take Teddy’s crown in the future. Is he unstoppable?
So currently the top boxer (Mayweather), the top mixed martial artist (Jon Jones), the top judoka (Teddy Riner), the top greco-roman wrestler (Mijain Lopez), top bodybuilder (Ronnie Coleman) in the world are all black.Replies: @Twinkie
Just because there is one great black Judoka (or even a few) doesn’t mean blacks dominate Judo.
The best Judo teams are fielded by Japan, Russia, France, South Korea and Germany. These teams are overwhelmingly European or Asian.
This guy Teddy Riner though is the biggest name in Judo right now. And he is still very young. He is a national hero in France.
By the way, the best female judoka from the last world championship just got beat by a black girl today in the ongoing world championship. Meet the new World Champion Clarisse Agbegnenou, also french:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarisse_AgbegnenouReplies: @Twinkie
“So currently the top boxer (Mayweather), the top mixed martial artist (Jon Jones), the top judoka (Teddy Riner), the top greco-roman wrestler (Mijain Lopez), top bodybuilder (Ronnie Coleman) in the world are all black.”
This is the problem with relying on the same media that is clueless about everything to form your opinions on boxing and mma. There is a big difference between a fanboy journalist and actually training in and understanding the sport.
Jon Jones is not the best mma fighter, and mayaeather is not the best boxer. What destroys your point is that jones lost to a white guy in his last fight, was give a horrible decision, and did his best to avoid a rematch, with even the UFC saying he was scared to rematch. Mayweather has ducked several fighters in his career, and has been very careful about fighting shorter and older fighters moving up in weight bc his defensive shell won’t work against a taller fighter. There are several fighters who would have trounced him in the last few years, but he wisely avoided them.
BUT, the above paragraph is over the top. Jon Jones, as much as I think he's not a good human being and find him extremely grating, is a top MMA fighter, one of the best. I like Alexander Gustafsson a lot, but he lost a close decision to Jones, because Jones showed the heart of a champion and re-took the initiative in the championship rounds (rounds 4 and 5). I don't think Jones is scared of a rematch. I think he thinks the Cormier fight will bring him more money because of the insane and deranged black-on-black trash talk and pre-fight violence that seem to bring more eye balls.
The thing that surprised me about Jones is that he appears to be a pretty stupid person in real life but shows quite good fight IQ in the heat of battle. The way he adjusted to Lyoto Machida after Machida cracked him hard the first round and the way he collapsed the pocket and beat up Teixeira close-in (when the initially game plan was to play the distance game) after noting that Teixeria winded up his hooks showed a lot of mental flexibility and fight IQ. Reportedly Jones studies tapes on other fighters fanatically and is a consummate student of all aspects of the MMA game.
We can admit all that and still disagree with the notion that MMA is a black-dominated sport. Because it isn't.
Burly means potentially dangerous and maybe violently inclined. Boxing, MMA, or wrestling isn’t fighting. Remember Tyson lost against Lewis boxing , but at the at the press conference he had him over in seconds.
“Tyson and Tua are probably the best steroid free heavyweights ever. Steroids give the biggest framed heavyweights like Lewis and Klitschko a relatively large boost. All natural , they’d be gangling.”
I will address your other points later, but are you seriously trying to argue Tyson was steroid free? And on top of that, he was one of the all time greats along with tua?!?!?
Tyson fought hand picked opponents to build up his reputation. When he finally stepped it up and took on high level opponents who were not scared of him, he was destroyed by Douglas and Holyfield. I don’t count the Lewis loss against him too much bc Tyson was ancient, but he would have never won that fight or one against the klitchkos at any point under the best case conditions. Tyson has to be the most overrated heavyweight of all time. It is a credit to his management that people decades later still think his knocking out tomato cans make him some sort of amazing heavyweight. His style alone of keeping his hands high would have never allowed him to beat a legit A level fighter in heavyweight history.
Koreans – Split fairly evenly now, but there’s big generational gap so also trending left”Among Asians, Vietnamese and Koreans are the most likely to vote Republican. While West Coast Asians are becoming ever more SWPL and vote accordingly, in Texas the Vietnamese vote solidly Republican as do Koreans in the Southeast.However, Republicans appear to be masters at repelling even these groups by alternating between the extremes of unintended hostility and obsequious/counterproductive outreach.Also, as with whites, religious affiliation has a strong influence on their voting patterns. Traditional Catholic Vietnamese and conservative evangelical Protestant Koreans vote very strongly for the GOP while the religiously unaffiliated tend to vote strongly for the Democrats."Yet the irony is that the most famous Asian Republican in the Conservative movement is neither Korean or Vietnamese, but a Pinay woman named Michelle Malkin. She runs a Conservative website called Twitchy, which I frequent often in the comments section. She also writes columns for VDare. I wonder if Steve Sailer has ever met her ?Replies: @Twinkie
And of course the most successful “Asian” Republican politicians nationally are South Asians, Governors Jindal and Haley.
I talked to Ms. Malkin once. And that’s all I’ll say about that.
For my money, the most entertaining ethnic Asian pol in America was definitely Sheriff Harry Lee of Jefferson Parish, Louisiana:
“If there are some young blacks driving a car late at night in a predominantly white neighborhood, they will be stopped. There’s a pretty good chance they’re up to no good. It’s obvious two young blacks driving a rinky-dink car in a predominantly white neighborhood—I’m not talking about on the main thoroughfare, but if they’re on one of the side streets and they’re cruising around—they’ll be stopped.”
That guy was something.
"In terms of raw strength, I doubt that the average black man is stronger than the average white man. Not sure about explosive strength — one would think that shot put and discus are all about explosive strength, and these sports seem to be dominated by whites."
Don't forget that blacks also have denser bones, which explains their lack of aptitude at swimming. I wonder if it partially explains why they are so good at boxing. I imagine it hurts a lot more to get hit by someone with denser bones.Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Twinkie
While most of punching power comes from good biomechanics, especially hip movement, I think there is something to the notion that thickness of the wrist contributes to punching power. Manny Pacquiao, for example, supposedly has the wrist thickness of a heavyweight: http://www.badlefthook.com/2011/3/15/2051585/boxing-science-how-manny-pacquiaos-body-has-tricked-analysts-and
The heavyweight average is 7.69, Pacquiao has an 8-inch wrist.
That's what I've always said about Koreans - they are the most purely Mongoloid of the Asian populations. Even more so than the Mongols themselves, whose conquests probably brought in a lot of Central Asian DNA. And from an HBD perspective it would explain why Koreans have higher IQs than Southeast Asians, and even slightly higher than the Chinese - both of those groups having varying degrees of Austronesian admixture. Interestingly enough they don't seem to have an IQ advantage over the Japanese (per the Lynn study) so the Japanese don't seem to suffer any adverse affects from their Jomon/Ainu admixture in that regard.
I've also long noted that Koreans seem to be overrepresented in Hollywood, at least as far as roles that require Asians go. You are far more likely to see a Korean playing a Chinese, Japanese, or Vietnamese than vice versa. I think this is because Korean physical features tend to align most accurately with what is perceived as the "Oriental" look by Westerners; pale yellow skin, pronounced cheekbones, and the most pronounced epicanthic folds of any Asian groupReplies: @Twinkie
Korean actors, actresses, and singers are extremely popular all over Asia due to the so-called Korean Wave. I don’t know how much of that is because of cultural factors or because of plastic surgery. As with many things, probably a combination of several factors.
The Korean Wave has had some successes in Europe and Latin America as well, but the Anglosphere appears quite resistant to its charms.
Velasquez looks to me like 80 % spanish, 15% westafrican, 5 % native american. Yes Jon Jones has obviously mostly westafrican ancestry, but thats not the case for every of those other “black” fighters on the top ten list
:
you said weightlifting is increasingly dominated by east asians. But one has to note that with the exception of that heavyweight korean guy (I forgot his name) who received some bronce medals in the last years, east asians only succeed in the weight class under 80 kg.
I think olympic weightlifting is a sport in which asians can be quite good. It is mostly about leg and hip strength and coordination. Grip strength is not as important. Thus the disadvantage of east asians- small wrists and hands – which makes it hard for them to succeed in boxing and many other things is not as important as in other fields.
One has to notice of course that the success of east asian weightlifters in mainly the success of chinese weightlifters. And we all know that weightlifting has a long history of steroid usage, something communist states are quite good at
The best Judo teams are fielded by Japan, Russia, France, South Korea and Germany. These teams are overwhelmingly European or Asian.Replies: @Bliss
You are beating a strawman. Nowhere did I say that blacks dominate judo.
This guy Teddy Riner though is the biggest name in Judo right now. And he is still very young. He is a national hero in France.
By the way, the best female judoka from the last world championship just got beat by a black girl today in the ongoing world championship. Meet the new World Champion Clarisse Agbegnenou, also french:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarisse_Agbegnenou
“Don’t forget that blacks also have denser bones, which explains their lack of aptitude at swimming. I wonder if it partially explains why they are so good at boxing. I imagine it hurts a lot more to get hit by someone with denser bones.”
Whites tend to have more punching power than blacks in boxing. Blacks tend to have a bit more speed while whites tend to be far more heavy handed, all things being equal. This is true both in current day boxing and historically. The biggest difference in speed between races usually isn’t hand speed based, but usually more foot speed based.
It would help if the people here actually sparred and trained to know a little bit about the subject. Not trying to be condescending, but I can tell all of the people talking about how great blacks are are basically just repeating what they hear on ESPN from some nerdy Jewish writer who never put on the gloves one time. With very few exceptions like a light skinned George foreman, blacks tend to generate punching power from speed, while whites do it from natural heavy handedness.
Just looking at today’s fighters, there are zero blacks at the same weight class who have as much power as Wladimir at heavy, Golovkin at middleweight, or Kovalev at light heavy – none of the blacks come even remotely close. Contrary to the ny times, I actually think the best genetic mixes for boxing are the Mexicans for the lower weights and the soviet bloc huge variation like the klitchkos, golovkin, kovalev, kosta tsyzu, etc. For blacks, I actually think the really light skinned ones with a lot of white and Indian in them are the best – joe Louis and George foreman come to mind. The Africans have always basically sucked at boxing for a reason.
Jon Jones is not the best mma fighter, and mayaeather is not the best boxer. What destroys your point is that jones lost to a white guy in his last fight, was give a horrible decision, and did his best to avoid a rematch, with even the UFC saying he was scared to rematch. Mayweather has ducked several fighters in his career, and has been very careful about fighting shorter and older fighters moving up in weight bc his defensive shell won't work against a taller fighter. There are several fighters who would have trounced him in the last few years, but he wisely avoided them.Replies: @Twinkie
I disagree with the idea that blacks dominate MMA. I actually think that MMA has an organically good racial balance because it has so many facets that are difficult to master all together. It’s a very high complexity fighting sport.
BUT, the above paragraph is over the top. Jon Jones, as much as I think he’s not a good human being and find him extremely grating, is a top MMA fighter, one of the best. I like Alexander Gustafsson a lot, but he lost a close decision to Jones, because Jones showed the heart of a champion and re-took the initiative in the championship rounds (rounds 4 and 5). I don’t think Jones is scared of a rematch. I think he thinks the Cormier fight will bring him more money because of the insane and deranged black-on-black trash talk and pre-fight violence that seem to bring more eye balls.
The thing that surprised me about Jones is that he appears to be a pretty stupid person in real life but shows quite good fight IQ in the heat of battle. The way he adjusted to Lyoto Machida after Machida cracked him hard the first round and the way he collapsed the pocket and beat up Teixeira close-in (when the initially game plan was to play the distance game) after noting that Teixeria winded up his hooks showed a lot of mental flexibility and fight IQ. Reportedly Jones studies tapes on other fighters fanatically and is a consummate student of all aspects of the MMA game.
We can admit all that and still disagree with the notion that MMA is a black-dominated sport. Because it isn’t.
This guy Teddy Riner though is the biggest name in Judo right now. And he is still very young. He is a national hero in France.
By the way, the best female judoka from the last world championship just got beat by a black girl today in the ongoing world championship. Meet the new World Champion Clarisse Agbegnenou, also french:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarisse_AgbegnenouReplies: @Twinkie
Then what is your point? What are you trying to propose by bringing up a few unusual black successes in Judo that is dominated by East Asians and Northern Europeans?
On average young black men have a clear but not large advantage in LBM on american white men there are about half an inch shorter then white men but 4 lbs heavier with 1 inch smaller waist, simple observation will indicate that highly muscular almost steroidal seeming builds are more common in black athletes and these numbers corroborate that observation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/01/us/sizing-up-america-signs-of-expansion-from-head-to-toe.html
http://www.halls.md/on/men-height-b.htm
http://www.vdare.com/posts/height-and-weight-new-survey-of-blacks-whites-and-hispanics
There is also the findings on myostatin mutations in sub saharan populations, MAO-A, and anaerobic muscle fiber precentage.
http://jap.physiology.org/content/61/5/1758.
I have done some consultation with an elite training and analysis group who work soley with elite athletes they have found a pattern of differences in force production between races though have not published this data for what would seem to be obvious reason. Basically blacks have the highest combination of quickness and strength while lacking mobility, asians are exceptional at mobility and whites are the most variable in physical type.
I suspect that the current demographics seen in the the NFL, track and MLB exaggerates the black white talent gap and the fact the fastest white sprinters and best white basketball players come from small countries with no african derived populations seems to back this up but I think there is good evidence now to back up the anecdotal observation that this populations have advantages in specific athletic disciplines.
While the black advantage in sports which can be viewed as ritualized violence is not surprising given there greater overall aggressiveness, the two need not necessarily correlate, none of the advantages proposed above necessarily incline blacks to greater aggressiveness except MAO-A which may or may not be an an athletic advantage, studies on testosterone have returned mixed results so I wouldn't state with confidence blacks have higher testosterone.
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jc.2007-0028Replies: @Fenris, @Twinkie, @Twinkie
But what about androgen receptivity? If blacks on average have higher androgen receptivity, even if they have the same level of testosterone, the effects of the latter would manifest at a higher level among blacks.
Although I did not keep the citation, I read a study a while back suggesting that East Asians actually have slightly higher testosterone level than Europeans but have much lower androgen receptivity, thus lowering the effects of testosterone in the former. But it sounded pretty speculative.
“We can admit all that and still disagree with the notion that MMA is a black-dominated sport. Because it isn’t.”
MMA is lily White compared to the the NBA, but Black as hell compared to the NHL. MMA is racially in the middle, not too Black but not a Whitopia either.
Twinkie,
Jon Jones is basically this decade’s Tito Ortiz. Most of the fans these days would have no idea what that even means, but if you watched in the old days you would: Someone who cuts a lot of weight, is very tall, and in good shape to use what is usually a size advatange. He also has fought in a relatively weak division, as most of the great LH fighters were retired or past their prime when Jones came around. Rampage, v silva, couture, liddell, etc all basically were past their primes and on the tail end of their careera. Like Tito, he also has horrible standup ability, especially when it comes to defense.
Jones would have been destroyed against a prime Liddell – he is just way too easy to hit and lacks even a decent level of boxing ability. Just like Ortiz avoided Liddell for years bc it was his worst matchup, so would jones have lost against chuck. I also think a fight with a prime v silva would have been 50/50. If jones had fought fedor in his prime, jones would have been finished within a round at most. There is a reason jones cuts such a huge amount of weight and does not compete at heavy, unlike the naturally smaller fedor doing for a decade. I also disagree that he did not duck the rematch – he did his best and the UFC has to basically publicly shame him to force him to accept.
I respect your opinion, Twinkie, but I disagree. I don’t think jones won the fight, and he clearly took a lot more damage. Just like Tito in his prime, they basically can’t fight someone who they can’t take down bc of bad standup skills, and use their height and size to avoid fighting people their own size or bigger. I think jones is a good fighter, but not great and can’t seem him beating a prime Liddell, fedor, couture, Coleman (220 lb pride winner version), and a fight with V Silva would be 50/50.
I basically don’t watch mma these days very much. It has become a lot sloppier and too watered down with rules, and honestly a lot of the skill has decreased compared to several years ago. It is a game of takedowns, sloppy toughman style brawling, and sloppy submissions – one big problem is fighters competing now are sort of half ass at everything, and not great at one skill like in the past. Did you ever watch the far superior Pride events? Just one rule difference of allowing kicks and knees to downed opponents made a dramatic difference in how the fight took place and it was far more exciting.
The UFC stars did not do well over there either – Anderson silva and chuck both lost badly prior to going on dominant runs in the UFC. Plus, they had fighters like Sakuraba do things that I would have never thought possible – 180 lb steroid free wrestler taking down and having wars with legit badass heavyweights was something out of a rocky movie. Seeing Saku force Royce Gracie throw in the towel and submit while be clowned him with pro wrestling Mongolian chops was also the funniest thing I have ever seen. If only sak had developed his boxing game with a legit boxing coach…
"Jon Jones is basically this decade’s Tito Ortiz."
Yes, except infinitely more talented.
" He also has fought in a relatively weak division"
Before JJ ran through the entire division like they were amateurs, LHW was considered to be an absolute shark tank, the toughest division, bar none.
"Like Tito, he also has horrible standup ability, especially when it comes to defense."
He absolutely shits all over Tito Ortiz in standup ability. But if he's so bad standing, how come he essentially beats everyone standing?
"Jones would have been destroyed against a prime Liddell"
LOL. You mean the prime Liddell who barely got by a skinny, green Alistair Overeem and got humiliated by Rampage, twice? How is Chuck even going to REACH him?
"I think jones is a good fighter, but not great and can’t seem him beating a prime Liddell, fedor, couture, Coleman (220 lb pride winner version), and a fight with V Silva would be 50/50."
You mean WANDERLEI Silva? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. How is Couture going to beat him? He himself admitted that he's lucky to be out of the sport during Jones' prime.
Seriously, you're a joke. I would derive great pleasure from seeing your heroes get humiliated by Jones.
So I have a fairly in-depth understanding of the technical details of MMA and I must disagree with you vehemently on several areas. See below.
"Someone who cuts a lot of weight, is very tall, and in good shape to use what is usually a size advatange. He also has fought in a relatively weak division, as most of the great LH fighters were retired or past their prime when Jones came around."
"Cutting a lot of weight" is not so easy, especially if one wants to maintain good cardio and energy output. You make it sound like cheating. All LHW fighters cut weight. Nobody just walks in with his walking/training weight. But only stupid fighters try to cut too much, drain himself terribly, and risk both bad performance and bad health/liver damage (see Anthony "Rumble" Johnson, who used to fight ineffectively at 170 while killing himself through radical weight cutting and is now a much better fighter at 205).
It's true, Jones is highly unusual in that he has very long reach with both his hands and feet and, more important, he uses the reach advantage extremely well, which is a crucial skill. Generally he has outstanding distance management. If length were all there was to it, Stefan Struve (7' tall) should be a formidable fighter. He isn't, because he doesn't fight to his length well (he likes throwing winging hooks and knees, neither a good distance weapon).
"Rampage, v silva, couture, liddell, etc all basically were past their primes and on the tail end of their careera. Like Tito, he also has horrible standup ability, especially when it comes to defense."
That's nonsense. Jones tore through a veritable murderers row of former champions in the LHW division, demolishing Shogun, Rashad, Rampage, Belfort, and Machida. Jones does not have the most crisp boxing, but he isn't a boxer. He does not have to have a good boxing defense, because he relies on distance management as defense (Machida has absolutely horrendous boxing, but he has superb distance management and lateral footwork to avoid being hit and, despite his lack of natural power, knocks out opponents by inducing a collision between a forward moving opponent and his left reverse punch, a marvelous thing of beauty when done right).
"Jones would have been destroyed against a prime Liddell – he is just way too easy to hit and lacks even a decent level of boxing ability."
This is a ridiculous statement. Chuck Liddell will tell you that Glover Teixeira is a bigger, more powerful version of himself with even better wrestling and Jones made the Teixeira fight look easy. Liddell built his name off of a decent sprawl/wrestling defense with being able to generate good power while backing up - a perfect combination against wrestlers. HE had a very porous striking defense and suffered accordingly as soon as he ran into more proficient strikers such as Rampage (twice) and Shogun and even the wornout shell of Rich Franklin. Chuck was alway a two trick pony. Shogun caught him with a basic "cheat punch" easily.
"I basically don’t watch mma these days very much. It has become a lot sloppier and too watered down with rules, and honestly a lot of the skill has decreased compared to several years ago. It is a game of takedowns, sloppy toughman style brawling, and sloppy submissions – one big problem is fighters competing now are sort of half ass at everything, and not great at one skill like in the past."
That is an absolute nonsense. MMA has become several orders of magnitude more technical. The striking skills now are quite amazing and especially the footwork has improved tremendously (as an immediate example, see the Dillashaw v. Barao fight where Dillashaw completely flummoxed the vaunted Barao with Dominick Cruz-like footwork and lateral movement).
Now most fighters are proficient enough individually in wrestling, submissions, and striking that there are hardly any gimme fights at the highest levels. What separates the top fighters now from journeymen fighters is in the transition game, that is, the phases during shifting of ranges and modes of fighting. Even moderately good fighters nowadays can integrate the phases of combat well ("mixing up" multiple threats of takedown, punching, and kicking, and transitioning seamlessly from one mode to another mode of fighting).
"Did you ever watch the far superior Pride events? Just one rule difference of allowing kicks and knees to downed opponents made a dramatic difference in how the fight took place and it was far more exciting."
I liked Pride FC rules. I intensely dislike putting one hand down to prevent knees. I watched every single Pride FC event and still watch some Asian MMA such as ONE FC. I also watch WSOF and Bellator, as well as Glory.
"The UFC stars did not do well over there either – Anderson silva and chuck both lost badly prior to going on dominant runs in the UFC. Plus, they had fighters like Sakuraba do things that I would have never thought possible – 180 lb steroid free wrestler..."
Fighting in a rectangular "ring" and a larger octagon are very different. In the former, it is very easy for a brawler to trap an opponent in the corner and brutalize him, something, for example, in which Wanderlei Silva excelled. Movement based fighters like Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida, and Dominick Cruz shine in a larger, corner-less octagon. Mirko "Crocop" said in an interview (after failing badly in the UFC) that he greatly underestimated the difference between the two venues in both striking and wrestling contexts.
"Saku" was probably on PEDs as Pride FC never did drug tests (see Coleman, Kerr, Wanderlei Silva, etc.). It also featured quite a few "worked" matches (the infamous Takeda vs. Coleman "fight" that ended in a silly looking heel hook comes to mind). MMA in Japan was far more entertainment than an actual sport, because it largely evolved out of pro-wrestling. And there was absolutely no commission or regulation to ensure a "level playing field" there.
Did you read what that white supremacist troll I was responding to has been repeating ad nauseam? I gave him a reality check.
But what about androgen receptivity? If blacks on average have higher androgen receptivity, even if they have the same level of testosterone, the effects of the latter would manifest at a higher level among blacks.
Except that there’s no real world physical manifestation of the proposed “higher androgen receptivity” among blacks. They’re NOT actually bigger, stronger, more muscular, leaner, and so on. If black men had equal testosterone levels to white men but ” higher androgen receptivity” then results like this could not exist.
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v26/n12/fig_tab/0802167t7.html
I pretty much had the strongest throwing arm you’ve ever seen, right Steve?
Bliss,
I just now got around to reading the espn all time greatest list and it is beyond laughable. Ali as number two? It is even worse than I thought! Jack Johnson is also very overrated, and he avoided a number of fighters. I don’t have a problem with sugar ray Robinson, as he prob was the best fighter of all time in terms of skill and record.
When the FBI has detailed files on multiple fights that defined you as being fixed, it takes away a lot of the credibility as being the second best fighter ever. Joe Louis belongs there, not Ali and his WWF style opponents being knocked out with a six inch arm punch that the media and former fighters all laughed about at the time as being obviously fixed. The judges in the Ali/norton fights also were completely crooked – Ali probably lost all three of those fights. Norton had zero respect for Ali’s power, and took advantage of Ali never punching to the body to simply cover up and walk him down.
I am not sure who is more overrated between Ali and Tyson thanks to the moronic American media, but sugar ray Leonard has to be up there too after that ridiculous decision against hagler. By the way, Ali got dropped with one punch and had the fear of God put into him when he disrespected a way past his prime Marciano during the filming of their simulation movie. Ali was extremely complimentary of rocky after that, telling Howard cosell that he would have whooped jack Johnson and Dempsey, but would not have wanted to run into Marciano in a dark alley. It makes sense because Frazier was basically a one handed, less athletic and less powerful version of Marciano and he prob gave Ali brain damage.
I can see Ali making the top ten, but definitely not over several people who aren’t on this list or some of the lower ranking ones.
Great posts, Twinkie. It is ridiculous to try and argue that mma is some black dominated sport. Same with Judo or Greco. A couple exceptions don’t prove the rule – or else the 1950s were actually a white dominated era of boxing since Marciano destroyed everyone, even if he was an exception. And the nba was dominated by whites in 2011 bc Dirk owned lebron and wade.
Again, that is the danger of someone just relying on the media to inform them instead of having an opinion from knowledge and experience. It would be like relying on the media for our knowledge of crime – one would think innocent blacks are gunned down left and right while neo nazis and the klan run rampant against innocent blacks trying to get an education and support their families. Actual stats show a completely different story in both cases, regardless of exceptions.
Or maybe Vince Evans of USC and the Raiders.
It was used to describe both Michael Brown and Ron Johnson. But a quick search of NY Times shows that it was also used to describe Boris Yeltsin, some Irish guys, and other people who are not black. In other words, NY Times has lost its mind.
“Burly lesbian:” now that’s a stereotype.
Brawny is the closest word to burly, but brawny is mostly muscle with a bit of fat, burly is for a big guy who is about an equal mix.Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Borachio
“Niggardly” has nothing to do with the dreaded “n-word” that ruins careers and gets people banned from polite society.
The Online Etymology Dictionary says:
“mean person, miser,” late 14c., nygart, of uncertain origin. The suffix suggests French origin (see -ard), but the root word is possibly from earlier nig “stingy” (c.1300), perhaps from a Scandinavian source related to Old Norse hnøggr “stingy,” from Proto-Germanic *khnauwjaz (source of Swedish njugg “close, careful,” German genau “precise, exact”), and to Old English hneaw “stingy, niggardly,” which did not survive in Middle English.
Pity the world ...
Sex is controlled by the primitive parts of the brain and is therefore more animalistic. The obvious conclusions apply.
The Online Etymology Dictionary says:
"mean person, miser," late 14c., nygart, of uncertain origin. The suffix suggests French origin (see -ard), but the root word is possibly from earlier nig "stingy" (c.1300), perhaps from a Scandinavian source related to Old Norse hnøggr "stingy," from Proto-Germanic *khnauwjaz (source of Swedish njugg "close, careful," German genau "precise, exact"), and to Old English hneaw "stingy, niggardly," which did not survive in Middle English.Replies: @The most deplorable one
Indeed:
Although I suspect that most people would not know where it comes from.
Pity the world …
I just now got around to reading the espn all time greatest list and it is beyond laughable. Ali as number two? It is even worse than I thought! Jack Johnson is also very overrated, and he avoided a number of fighters. I don't have a problem with sugar ray Robinson, as he prob was the best fighter of all time in terms of skill and record.
When the FBI has detailed files on multiple fights that defined you as being fixed, it takes away a lot of the credibility as being the second best fighter ever. Joe Louis belongs there, not Ali and his WWF style opponents being knocked out with a six inch arm punch that the media and former fighters all laughed about at the time as being obviously fixed. The judges in the Ali/norton fights also were completely crooked - Ali probably lost all three of those fights. Norton had zero respect for Ali's power, and took advantage of Ali never punching to the body to simply cover up and walk him down.
I am not sure who is more overrated between Ali and Tyson thanks to the moronic American media, but sugar ray Leonard has to be up there too after that ridiculous decision against hagler. By the way, Ali got dropped with one punch and had the fear of God put into him when he disrespected a way past his prime Marciano during the filming of their simulation movie. Ali was extremely complimentary of rocky after that, telling Howard cosell that he would have whooped jack Johnson and Dempsey, but would not have wanted to run into Marciano in a dark alley. It makes sense because Frazier was basically a one handed, less athletic and less powerful version of Marciano and he prob gave Ali brain damage.
I can see Ali making the top ten, but definitely not over several people who aren't on this list or some of the lower ranking ones.Replies: @gu
Marciano was also a one handed crude.
Jon Jones is basically this decade's Tito Ortiz. Most of the fans these days would have no idea what that even means, but if you watched in the old days you would: Someone who cuts a lot of weight, is very tall, and in good shape to use what is usually a size advatange. He also has fought in a relatively weak division, as most of the great LH fighters were retired or past their prime when Jones came around. Rampage, v silva, couture, liddell, etc all basically were past their primes and on the tail end of their careera. Like Tito, he also has horrible standup ability, especially when it comes to defense.
Jones would have been destroyed against a prime Liddell - he is just way too easy to hit and lacks even a decent level of boxing ability. Just like Ortiz avoided Liddell for years bc it was his worst matchup, so would jones have lost against chuck. I also think a fight with a prime v silva would have been 50/50. If jones had fought fedor in his prime, jones would have been finished within a round at most. There is a reason jones cuts such a huge amount of weight and does not compete at heavy, unlike the naturally smaller fedor doing for a decade. I also disagree that he did not duck the rematch - he did his best and the UFC has to basically publicly shame him to force him to accept.
I respect your opinion, Twinkie, but I disagree. I don't think jones won the fight, and he clearly took a lot more damage. Just like Tito in his prime, they basically can't fight someone who they can't take down bc of bad standup skills, and use their height and size to avoid fighting people their own size or bigger. I think jones is a good fighter, but not great and can't seem him beating a prime Liddell, fedor, couture, Coleman (220 lb pride winner version), and a fight with V Silva would be 50/50.
I basically don't watch mma these days very much. It has become a lot sloppier and too watered down with rules, and honestly a lot of the skill has decreased compared to several years ago. It is a game of takedowns, sloppy toughman style brawling, and sloppy submissions - one big problem is fighters competing now are sort of half ass at everything, and not great at one skill like in the past. Did you ever watch the far superior Pride events? Just one rule difference of allowing kicks and knees to downed opponents made a dramatic difference in how the fight took place and it was far more exciting.
The UFC stars did not do well over there either - Anderson silva and chuck both lost badly prior to going on dominant runs in the UFC. Plus, they had fighters like Sakuraba do things that I would have never thought possible - 180 lb steroid free wrestler taking down and having wars with legit badass heavyweights was something out of a rocky movie. Seeing Saku force Royce Gracie throw in the towel and submit while be clowned him with pro wrestling Mongolian chops was also the funniest thing I have ever seen. If only sak had developed his boxing game with a legit boxing coach...Replies: @gu, @Twinkie
Seriously, sometimes you wonder if this is a put on or if people really are this stupid.
“Jon Jones is basically this decade’s Tito Ortiz.”
Yes, except infinitely more talented.
” He also has fought in a relatively weak division”
Before JJ ran through the entire division like they were amateurs, LHW was considered to be an absolute shark tank, the toughest division, bar none.
“Like Tito, he also has horrible standup ability, especially when it comes to defense.”
He absolutely shits all over Tito Ortiz in standup ability. But if he’s so bad standing, how come he essentially beats everyone standing?
“Jones would have been destroyed against a prime Liddell”
LOL. You mean the prime Liddell who barely got by a skinny, green Alistair Overeem and got humiliated by Rampage, twice? How is Chuck even going to REACH him?
“I think jones is a good fighter, but not great and can’t seem him beating a prime Liddell, fedor, couture, Coleman (220 lb pride winner version), and a fight with V Silva would be 50/50.”
You mean WANDERLEI Silva? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. How is Couture going to beat him? He himself admitted that he’s lucky to be out of the sport during Jones’ prime.
Seriously, you’re a joke. I would derive great pleasure from seeing your heroes get humiliated by Jones.
“Tyson fought hand picked opponents to build up his reputation. When he finally stepped it up and took on high level opponents who were not scared of him, he was destroyed by Douglas and Holyfield.”
He wasn’t destroyed by either of these fighters. You’re incredibly ignorant. Tyson was an absolute machine of destruction in the rings. The fact that his resume isn’t absolute top shelf doesn’t change the fact that he was superior to many boxers you want to rank above him.
In the last decade Greco wrestling was dominated by Lopez, a black cuban wrestler.
Talking about racial strength difference especially in martial arts on should not forget Teddy Riner. He has won everything in judo, and is still quite young. He is an absolutely outstanidng athlete. His physical advantage over his oppenents reminds of the advantage Karelin had upon his oppononets. While the heavyweight judokas are rather burly guys, weighing around 120-130 kg with a little fat in the belly, Riner also weighs 120-130 kg, but is taller and RIPPED.
I am not sure how he would do in olympic wrestling, and he certainly would do bad in olympic weighlifting, but I guess he could immediately become heavyweight champion in the UFC if he only tried.
Here is a picture where you can see his wrist/hand/forearm compared to that of a pn average guy.
http://www.oradejudo.ro/2012/07/ti-ar-placea-sa-l-ai-pe-teddy-ca-antrenor-personal/Replies: @gu
“but I guess he could immediately become heavyweight champion in the UFC if he only tried.”
LOL.
Blacks are not stronger than whites. Since whites became deracinated, many white men refuse to participate in work and sports to build their strength. “Geek” looks are the rage. Also, why is it that short mestizos in California have sent blacks packing to the South again?
By Jonathan Kaplan.Replies: @JimL
I wasted several minutes reading that study. Its a classic example of magical thinking. The New Guinea cargo cults did a better job of analyzing evidence and drawing conclusions than Kaplan
“Progressivism is Christian Egalitarianism masquerading as science-based pragmatism. ”
If I had enough biplanes and money, I’d write this across the sky forever.
“Black men are physically more attractive than white, being better built and more muscular — and usually able to beat the stuffing out of white men, which whites of both sexes know. They are also unapologetically masculine, more assertive, and often charming. Caucasian men these days tend to be neutered and carefully inoffensive.It is easy to see how a white woman who wanted a masculine man would find a good-looking black guy appealing.”
Bizarre. Speaking from my own experience with other females since school days, blacks were/are considered to have looks so different from whites that “handsome” didn’t have the same meaning at all. Sidney Poitier was certainly “handsome” in his way; but he wasn’t Al Pacino or Robert Redford or Brad Pitt on the looks metre. Some blacks would be, I guess, but they would have a type rather rare for blacks. The icon of handsome is not sub-Saharan African, sorry. Unless the features are distinctly Caucasoid. Few whites are really that attracted to blacks. Maybe they’re not attracted to whites. Don’t know. Don’t care. It’s mostly social pressure in certain situations that causes “attraction.”
Whites have a bell curve of looks similar to the IQ bell curve, I’d. More on each extreme, with an average higher, or at any rate, very different from blacks.
Jon Jones is basically this decade's Tito Ortiz. Most of the fans these days would have no idea what that even means, but if you watched in the old days you would: Someone who cuts a lot of weight, is very tall, and in good shape to use what is usually a size advatange. He also has fought in a relatively weak division, as most of the great LH fighters were retired or past their prime when Jones came around. Rampage, v silva, couture, liddell, etc all basically were past their primes and on the tail end of their careera. Like Tito, he also has horrible standup ability, especially when it comes to defense.
Jones would have been destroyed against a prime Liddell - he is just way too easy to hit and lacks even a decent level of boxing ability. Just like Ortiz avoided Liddell for years bc it was his worst matchup, so would jones have lost against chuck. I also think a fight with a prime v silva would have been 50/50. If jones had fought fedor in his prime, jones would have been finished within a round at most. There is a reason jones cuts such a huge amount of weight and does not compete at heavy, unlike the naturally smaller fedor doing for a decade. I also disagree that he did not duck the rematch - he did his best and the UFC has to basically publicly shame him to force him to accept.
I respect your opinion, Twinkie, but I disagree. I don't think jones won the fight, and he clearly took a lot more damage. Just like Tito in his prime, they basically can't fight someone who they can't take down bc of bad standup skills, and use their height and size to avoid fighting people their own size or bigger. I think jones is a good fighter, but not great and can't seem him beating a prime Liddell, fedor, couture, Coleman (220 lb pride winner version), and a fight with V Silva would be 50/50.
I basically don't watch mma these days very much. It has become a lot sloppier and too watered down with rules, and honestly a lot of the skill has decreased compared to several years ago. It is a game of takedowns, sloppy toughman style brawling, and sloppy submissions - one big problem is fighters competing now are sort of half ass at everything, and not great at one skill like in the past. Did you ever watch the far superior Pride events? Just one rule difference of allowing kicks and knees to downed opponents made a dramatic difference in how the fight took place and it was far more exciting.
The UFC stars did not do well over there either - Anderson silva and chuck both lost badly prior to going on dominant runs in the UFC. Plus, they had fighters like Sakuraba do things that I would have never thought possible - 180 lb steroid free wrestler taking down and having wars with legit badass heavyweights was something out of a rocky movie. Seeing Saku force Royce Gracie throw in the towel and submit while be clowned him with pro wrestling Mongolian chops was also the funniest thing I have ever seen. If only sak had developed his boxing game with a legit boxing coach...Replies: @gu, @Twinkie
I trained with Erik Paulson years and years ago as well as a number of renowned and leading Brazilian Jujitsu instructors/competitors. I started watching the UFC with the first four (which were basically Rorion Gracie’s informercials for his family’s brand of Judo). And, as I wrote before, I’ve boxed, wrestled, did Muay Thai and several East Asian martial arts. (I love “combat” sports so much that I even watch Japanese Sumo, Korean Ssireum, and Mongolian folk wrestling, and also personally dabbled in a bit of catch-as-catch-can American folk wrestling).
So I have a fairly in-depth understanding of the technical details of MMA and I must disagree with you vehemently on several areas. See below.
“Someone who cuts a lot of weight, is very tall, and in good shape to use what is usually a size advatange. He also has fought in a relatively weak division, as most of the great LH fighters were retired or past their prime when Jones came around.”
“Cutting a lot of weight” is not so easy, especially if one wants to maintain good cardio and energy output. You make it sound like cheating. All LHW fighters cut weight. Nobody just walks in with his walking/training weight. But only stupid fighters try to cut too much, drain himself terribly, and risk both bad performance and bad health/liver damage (see Anthony “Rumble” Johnson, who used to fight ineffectively at 170 while killing himself through radical weight cutting and is now a much better fighter at 205).
It’s true, Jones is highly unusual in that he has very long reach with both his hands and feet and, more important, he uses the reach advantage extremely well, which is a crucial skill. Generally he has outstanding distance management. If length were all there was to it, Stefan Struve (7′ tall) should be a formidable fighter. He isn’t, because he doesn’t fight to his length well (he likes throwing winging hooks and knees, neither a good distance weapon).
“Rampage, v silva, couture, liddell, etc all basically were past their primes and on the tail end of their careera. Like Tito, he also has horrible standup ability, especially when it comes to defense.”
That’s nonsense. Jones tore through a veritable murderers row of former champions in the LHW division, demolishing Shogun, Rashad, Rampage, Belfort, and Machida. Jones does not have the most crisp boxing, but he isn’t a boxer. He does not have to have a good boxing defense, because he relies on distance management as defense (Machida has absolutely horrendous boxing, but he has superb distance management and lateral footwork to avoid being hit and, despite his lack of natural power, knocks out opponents by inducing a collision between a forward moving opponent and his left reverse punch, a marvelous thing of beauty when done right).
“Jones would have been destroyed against a prime Liddell – he is just way too easy to hit and lacks even a decent level of boxing ability.”
This is a ridiculous statement. Chuck Liddell will tell you that Glover Teixeira is a bigger, more powerful version of himself with even better wrestling and Jones made the Teixeira fight look easy. Liddell built his name off of a decent sprawl/wrestling defense with being able to generate good power while backing up – a perfect combination against wrestlers. HE had a very porous striking defense and suffered accordingly as soon as he ran into more proficient strikers such as Rampage (twice) and Shogun and even the wornout shell of Rich Franklin. Chuck was alway a two trick pony. Shogun caught him with a basic “cheat punch” easily.
“I basically don’t watch mma these days very much. It has become a lot sloppier and too watered down with rules, and honestly a lot of the skill has decreased compared to several years ago. It is a game of takedowns, sloppy toughman style brawling, and sloppy submissions – one big problem is fighters competing now are sort of half ass at everything, and not great at one skill like in the past.”
That is an absolute nonsense. MMA has become several orders of magnitude more technical. The striking skills now are quite amazing and especially the footwork has improved tremendously (as an immediate example, see the Dillashaw v. Barao fight where Dillashaw completely flummoxed the vaunted Barao with Dominick Cruz-like footwork and lateral movement).
Now most fighters are proficient enough individually in wrestling, submissions, and striking that there are hardly any gimme fights at the highest levels. What separates the top fighters now from journeymen fighters is in the transition game, that is, the phases during shifting of ranges and modes of fighting. Even moderately good fighters nowadays can integrate the phases of combat well (“mixing up” multiple threats of takedown, punching, and kicking, and transitioning seamlessly from one mode to another mode of fighting).
“Did you ever watch the far superior Pride events? Just one rule difference of allowing kicks and knees to downed opponents made a dramatic difference in how the fight took place and it was far more exciting.”
I liked Pride FC rules. I intensely dislike putting one hand down to prevent knees. I watched every single Pride FC event and still watch some Asian MMA such as ONE FC. I also watch WSOF and Bellator, as well as Glory.
“The UFC stars did not do well over there either – Anderson silva and chuck both lost badly prior to going on dominant runs in the UFC. Plus, they had fighters like Sakuraba do things that I would have never thought possible – 180 lb steroid free wrestler…”
Fighting in a rectangular “ring” and a larger octagon are very different. In the former, it is very easy for a brawler to trap an opponent in the corner and brutalize him, something, for example, in which Wanderlei Silva excelled. Movement based fighters like Anderson Silva, Lyoto Machida, and Dominick Cruz shine in a larger, corner-less octagon. Mirko “Crocop” said in an interview (after failing badly in the UFC) that he greatly underestimated the difference between the two venues in both striking and wrestling contexts.
“Saku” was probably on PEDs as Pride FC never did drug tests (see Coleman, Kerr, Wanderlei Silva, etc.). It also featured quite a few “worked” matches (the infamous Takeda vs. Coleman “fight” that ended in a silly looking heel hook comes to mind). MMA in Japan was far more entertainment than an actual sport, because it largely evolved out of pro-wrestling. And there was absolutely no commission or regulation to ensure a “level playing field” there.
To get back on topic, because heavily built men are perceived as having a greater potential to become violent.
They aren’t. Black women flirt with me all the time and I’m no Brad Pitt.
“Chuck Liddell will tell you that Glover Teixeira is a bigger, more powerful version of himself with even better wrestling and Jones made the Teixeira fight look easy.”
Wouldn’t really go that far.