Data scientist David Rozado presents his complete collection of Google Gemini 17th Century physicists.

He thinks the one in the lower right corner might be reminiscent of a European physicist like Galileo, who looked like this. But the other 48 definitely do not.

Rozado writes:
… when having to choose between historical accuracy and diversity/inclusion, Google’s Gemini prioritizes the later, at least for the particular case above.
Jonathan Haidt has spoken previously about the tension between truth and DEI in situations where they inexorably conflict (like the example above illustrates). A critical societal issue derived from such tension is who gets to decide how present and future AI systems knobs are adjusted in regard to this trade-off.
I think most people would agree that a self-anointed group of elites making those decisions is probably sub-optimal. A more promising alternative might be personalized AI systems where individual users can adjust the knobs themselves and decide for instance how much accuracy/truth they are willing to sacrifice in favor of AI outputs conforming to certain normative values.

RSS

Pretty much everyone in the current year under the age of 50 will probably break these knobs right off in the first few minutes, trying to turn them past Maximum Woke. Can you please make some which go to eleven?
You miss the entire point of this sort of black-washing history. It’s not to “add diversity” or even to lie. It’s to poke white people in the eye.
“We know that they are lying, they know that they are lying, they even know that we know they are lying, we also know that they know we know they are lying too, they of course know that we certainly know they know we know they are lying too as well, but they are still lying.” ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Having an option for “diversity” would defeat the entire point since everyone except racial activists would choose “historically accurate”. And an option would not poke white people in the eyes with sharp sticks.
Besides the ludicrous idea that merely seeing a random picture is considered "hurtful", the misuse of the word "hate" is also brought to mind. That word has completely lost all meaning these days.Replies: @deep anonymous
Steve twists himself into knots trying to explain why our rulers do what they do. "It's momey" or "It's about power" ot "They're misguided do gooders."
No, Steve. They hate us and what whites brought to our knees.Replies: @Reg Cæsar
I think dude in the corner is meant to look like some kind of Brazilian high-yaller mulatto or something. He’s certainly not clearly white.
I find this all very irritating. Us whites — and white males in particular — have clearly surpassed all other groups in achievement over the last five hundred years. No one would seriously want to live in a world deprived of what white males have brought to the table.
Now — unlike some — I think it’s tacky to endlessly rub everyone’s nose in this fact, but if people are going to insist on the complete opposite, I feel justified in pointing out the truth.
Thanks for articulating that. I’ve often felt that way on a variety of topics.
While whites may have had a brief period of material success, we appear to lack the ability to defend our population in the current world. Thus we will not be around too much longer. The ultimate winners will be those left standing while the losers become an extinct race.Replies: @Ben tillman
Exactly. Extremely well said Colin.I did not personally invent Newton's laws of motion--or for that matter calculus. But I also didn't pilot a slave ship to the America's--my people's one great world historical crime.I'm fine with history--no need to whitewash anything. But when someone opens their yap with this oppressed minorities drivel ... then seriously, white guys have done more for humanity than anyone else .... by a landslide. Without white guys ... everyone would essentially be camping, permanently (and without all the cool gear). You wouldn't even know what you all are missing.And the same for "you go girl!". Men and women are by nature complementary. Women have their role. Men have their role. And we fit together very nicely. But when I hear all this minoritarian style blah, blah, blah about men, male oppression, "women in charge!" ... Seriously. We'd be squatting in caves if we were dependent upon innovation from women. I'm not even sure about fire, we'd probably still be in Africa. On the other hand talking--that we'd have.
Never in human history have so many owed so much to so few.Replies: @Loyalty is The First Law of Morality, @Corvinus, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Twinkie, @Jack D
That all said, this explosion of genius of the West in the last several hundred years was neither "essentialist" nor predestined, and was contingent on many different factors. As such, it is not preordained to continue forever, either.
This is another way of saying that civilizational dominance has ebbed and flowed throughout Eurasia in history and, if this kind of scientific and historical denialism continues in the West, it is going to undergo a period of decline and be eclipsed by other parts of Eurasia, for however long that lasts. (Personally, I wish that weren't so.)Replies: @Corvinus, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
Could we please have this option for the phenotypes of the people appearing in commercials on streaming video services and television?
OpenAI’s Sora (https://openai.com/sora) could generate commercials on-the-fly. It would be a win-win.
Who wants to see ghetto blacks in commercials for online sports betting during a movie about, say, Michelangelo (e.g., Il Peccato)?
The "must have blacks!"--blacks jammed in everywhere--thing is one of the most annoying deals ever. It is a very American imposition. Blacks are the diversity fetish object for the people who've used the black experience in America as their cudgel to beat whitey and impose minoritarianism.
But blacks are not "appealing"--visually or behaviorally. It certainly makes sense to have shows with blacks for blacks. But "the world" as a whole does not want to want to look at blacks. Most people mostly want to look at people like themselves. But beyond that more attractive/interesting people--that is not blacks.
I can't even count the number of times AnotherMom and I have pulled the plug on something that started jamming blacks--likewise the homos--at us. Click. (You can't even fire up some Jane Austen style period piece costume drama anymore ... blacks!) But even more we see the squib on something that might be interesting to us and realize it's going to serve up generous portions of blacks and homos.
Not doing blackification is one of those $1,000,000 bills sitting on the sidewalk. That it is not grabbed up, just makes the point that this is not "all about the money", but heavily ideological.Replies: @MGB, @Jack D, @Old Prude
At the risk of stating the obvious, Google doesn’t want you to know the answers are fake. People would eventually wonder why the answers get more left-wing whenever they turn up the “stupid” dial.
It looks to me like AI makes faces perfectly symmetrical, which is one reason they all look fake, in addition to seeing non-whites in antique European dress. It’s odd that the AI automobiles I’ve seen usually weren’t symmetrical but the people are.
But the self-anointed group of elites don’t think so. This isn’t the 1980s when Progressives were still trying to gain a monopoly on power and therefore free speech and free inquiry was a necessary tool. It’s 2024 when they have a monopoly on power. End of story.
Odd that Gemini shows “physicists” as exclusively human. Seems wrong somehow. In contrast, the non-Gemini examples below are more inclusive without further sacrificing plausibility. Do better, Google.
This is symptomatic of a larger trend at Google. In the day, Google was my go-to source for search. In recent years, however, it's clear that the results have been "curated", or less charitably, censored. Trying to get good answers from Google search is now more a game, while they pummel the poor user with paid for rankings. Worse than paid for is the trend toward outright thumb on the scales for any topic even the least controversial. This wouldn't be a problem if I could just go somewhere else, but the competitors simply are not as strong on the actual search.
Or maybe someone can create an AI that is scientifically and logically approved/trademarked, and is at worst predjudiced towards classic judeo-christian values, and which is, one technically capable of cock-blocking a challenging AI saddled with with psychotic globo/homo communist delusions of grandeur.
The West, is still the best, everywhere.
It’s definitely favoring “dot” Indians and that’s probably a clue for who worked on the algorithm.
Ask Gemini to show pictures of 19th century African chieftains.
Would any be shown as Northern Europeans, Whites or Asians?Replies: @Corvinus, @Jack D
2. “Casino” Indians.
i.e., the tension between truth and non-truth, a.k.a., falsehood. Note the necessary corollary: DEI = falsehood.
for the truth and for you, but not for the self-anointed elites.
Right now, the self-anointed elites get to decide. They like it that way and would prefer if you don’t even get to question it. On AI or anything else.
“Turn yourself in at the nearest re-education camp, Comrade!”
Even more ridiculous are the background historical anomalies:
Neither the blackboard or whiteboard existed in the 17 century.
Is it just me, but don’t you find these AI images, in general, to be garish, loud, tacky, lacking in all poise and finesse and just plain cheap and nasty looking?
Professional illustrators need not be worried.
AI illustrations, for all their unhinged colour and shiny contours, are actually flat and lifeless. Human illustrators will or rather are losing jobs. AI is a lot faster and cheaper. And we live in a degraded culture wherein Black Excellence and Black Genius triumphs over the real stuff. If I were looking to publish a graphic novel I would definitely hire a human to do the art work. Despite the
cost and time it'll take. Despite having to deal with the irritating personalities of illustrators. They're bastards, each and every one of them. But the human work will stand out like sparkling diamonds amidst the nauseating AI colours.
An update to the controversy over identifying the homosexual members of Justice League: What I should of said is this designation applies to all of the Justice League -- Aquaman, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Wonder Woman (from the Isle of Lesbos), Flash (natch), Hawkman, Batman (maybe Steve ought to rethink his affiliation with Bruce Wayne and Bruces' "ward" Robin), Superman (red underwear), the Atom (quantum gay), the guy with the fire on top of his head, Red Tornado (more homo than even Flash). Not Martian Manhunter, however. MM should really be in Jack Kirby's universe.
At the same time, the idea of simply describing an image and getting something this good seemed like fantasy not that long ago. I remember reading a prediction like that probably 20 years ago in I think WIRED (remember them?) and thinking, “that’s impossible, that will never happen.” And yet here it is. And so far they’ve only scratched the surface.
And even at this primitive stage, there are still people (mostly very old or very young people) who are easily fooled by this technology. Presumably the pool of “easily fooled” will expand as the technology improves. AI is going to be incredibly disruptive in all sorts of unpredictable ways.
I see a private company offering a product. If the market doesn’t accept that product it will not succeed. I don’t know why you guys are complaining. You sound like a bunch of busybodies.
Hypothetically, one could nationalize Google and it wouldn’t make much of a difference since our elites in and out of government are the same. But that would require recognizing the “state” isn’t the problem here, the problem is a philosophical and cultural one with the rot going back generations if not centuries. The state could be used to combat it, but you have to take over the state and make policies that lots of rich people would not like. So we won’t be doing anything about this any time soon. There will be Congressional grandstanding, but that’s about it.
You're mistaken, this isn't a company seeking a market, this is more like a Renaissance patron commandimg artists who will starve without him.
Even were it otherwise, look at Bill Ackman discovering what his money is worth.Replies: @Ennui
Nope. Not any more. Private interests largely own the state, functionally if not outright. If those businesses take action against us, then I am happy to consider them to be my enemy.
And they're not always doing it for purely business reasons - increasingly not at all for business reasons. They are part of the agenda - they are pushing the agenda.Replies: @Ennui, @deep anonymous
Lotsa Indians (both kinds).
Not many East Asians… 1/49?
Presumably the CCP does not allow access.
Have the others been reclassified as white?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCuuwk1vCkIReplies: @Bill Jones
At the moment, Europe is still white enough for people to know that Europe was historically white. But in a hundred years time, if we have a completely blended population, and if most people get their information from the internet then who’s to say they won’t be successful in completely erasing whites from history? The truth will exist in crumbling (and racist) books that no decent person reads.
I remember many years ago coming to the conclusion that the way things were going, anything ‘white’ would eventually be seen as immoral, down to the level of the nuclear family. Of course this was the kind of opinion which sounded crazy when I told people out loud. And yet, here we are, with google refusing to show images of white families for that very reason.
I believe there was an obscure dystopian racialist novel in which whites were forbidden to breed with other whites in order to create a non-racist future. This probably also would have sounded like a crazy right-wing fantasy when it was first suggested, but does it really seem so far fetched now?
In March 1814, Francia imposed a law that no Spaniard may intermarry with another Spaniard, and that they may only wed mestizos, Amerindians, or Africans. This was done to eliminate any socioeconomic disparities along racial lines, and also to end the predominantly criollo and peninsulare influence in Paraguay. De Francia himself was not a mestizo, but feared that racial disparities would create tensions that could threaten his absolute ruleReplies: @J.Ross
While looking I ran across this which seemed worth sharing (for the reviews at the link).
Revealing Eden (Save the Pearls #1)
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/12393909The Amazon reviews are fun as well. The punchline there is that used hardbacks start at $35.Replies: @J.Ross, @al gore rhythms, @Fatigued
Meh, “lower right” guy still looks Pakistani to me, whereas Galileo looks … Scottish.
Google has gained a monopoly on “truth” and they’ve decided to use their monopoly on non-normative fact discovery to engage in social engineering and inject their personal value judgements whenever given a chance. Rather than show the world how it actually is (or was) they show it as they wish it were. Of course, Wikipedia largely does the same thing, as does Disney, HBO and ad agencies.
And so do elite universities. Universities are both a source of scholarship and learning about objective facts in, e.g., mathematics, chemistry and physics, but they’re also a place for indoctrination and social engineering into elite values, normative beliefs and ideology. Their prestige in the former lends credence for the latter even when the latter is based on nothing but the feelings and preferences of its pushers. Effectively, elite universities have been turned into a Trojan horse for leftist ideology. They get away with this in part because it’s not obvious to most students when what they’re being taught is a fact about objective reality or when it’s ideological propaganda or a value laden normative statement. Nor are they often even conscious of the distinction. Thus they’re taught that two plus two makes four and, a few minutes later, about the importance of “diversity, equity and inclusion” (often even in the same class) and they file those two “facts” away just the same. They’re taught that there are seven continents and that “white people are uniquely evil” and they register these two “facts” just the same. Your anthropology textbook will go from talking about the average stature of homo neanderthalensis to telling you that “ethnocentrism is harmful” as if those two “facts” are equally non-normative and equally based in objective reality. Unfortunately, students fail to see the distinction and recognize when they’re being told objective facts and when they’re being propagandized and socially engineered.
It’s rather like the Catholic Church in Galileo’s time: On the one hand it was a center of objective scholarship and where one would go to learn about objective facts about the world, but on the other it was an institution for propaganda, and its monopoly enabled it to grow rife with corruption – leading eventually to the Protestant Reformation. The Catholic Church employed its prestige as a center of objective scholarship and learning to imbue its political and religious ideology with credibility and the patina of objective fact. The Ivies, similarly, are a sort of modern Catholic Church circa 1550 as you see manifested in a number of ways: from the selling of indulgences (daddy Kushner buys son’s way into Harvard) to punishing dissidents who question the heliocentric model (or the defenestration of modern “race realists”) to the pushing of leftist political ideology as if it were objective fact to the rewriting of history and diversifying of images so as to socially engineer the public’s understanding of its own civilization – as is seen by Google Gemini and Google Search and Disney, HBO, Wikipedia and the ads you see.
We’re in desperate need of a Reformation of sorts in media, search engines and education, both K-12 and universities.
An AI is not an oracle, it is a Rube Goldberg contraption for generating fiction. People have always enjoyed reading and writing fiction, which often serves as a vehicle for fantastical beliefs. AI is not an exception is this regard; it simply reflects the intentions of its authors. A little sense of proportion will let you know where most fiction ends up. If it doesn't have endearing human qualities and a transcendent moral point, it is simply forgotten.
It isn’t about “diversity and inclusion.” Stop using their words.
It’s about racial hatred against white peoples. Call it what it is.
There is no circumstance where you prompt “17th century physicists” and not a single white man comes up unless the intention is erasure.
Which one is Isaac Newton?
In case anyone is interested in actual 17th century physicists, these are the 17th century’s most important physicists* in order of importance, according to Murray’s Human Accomplishment:
Galileo Galilei
Newton, Isaac
Kepler, Johannes
Halley, Edmond
Cassini, Giovanni
Huygens, Christiaan
Hooke, Robert
Hevelius, Johannes
Descartes, René
Torricelli, Evangelista
Guericke, Otto von
Flamsteed, John
Mayr, Simon
Scheiner, Christoph
Gassendi, Pierre
Jansen, Zacharias
Grimaldi, Francesco
Römer, Ole
Snel, Willebrord
Bartholin, Erasmus
Riccioli, Giambattista
Fabricius, David
Horrocks, Jeremiah
Cabeo, Niccolo
Bayer, Johann
Sauveur, Joseph
And yes, 100% Euro: 6 each Italian, German, and British; 3 each French and Dutch; 2 Danes and Pole. So, plenty of diversity there.
———
*These are the floruit 1600-1700 from Murray’s “Science” inventory with the sub-fields of Physics, Astronomy, and Earth Science, since those fields were quite overlapped in the 17th century. Filtering down to only “pure” physics reduces to this list:
Newton, Isaac
Galileo Galilei
Huygens, Christiaan
Hooke, Robert
Descartes, René
Torricelli, Evangelista
Guericke, Otto von
Jansen, Zacharias
Grimaldi, Francesco
Snel, Willebrord
Bartholin, Erasmus
Sauveur, Joseph
3 each Italian and Dutch, 2 each French and British, and 1 each German and Danish. (Dutch per capita outperformance is notable in these lists.)
the travels of Marco Polo, which made Europeans extremely curious about the world and facilitated cartography;
the major innovations from China like gunpowder, the compass, and the printing press;
the mathematical foundations of India and Arabia that made its way to Europe;
and the preservation of Ancient Greek and Roman texts by Muslims.
Truly, an explosive combination.Replies: @Old Prude, @Mr. Anon
I don't think so.Replies: @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad
I think Murray was very fair, in his methodology even posited that Western art and music is significantly superior to other genres.
pg. 249
https://i.postimg.cc/6p96Hq99/Sukuri-nshotto.png
I actually don't dispute this. Western art and science development was intertwined, Michelangelo and Goethe are examples that've made contributions to both.
Problem is that science itself is hitting diminishing returns. We are not going to see anymore breakthroughs, in for example, earth science. We were promised flying cars, and instead got woke AI.Replies: @Frau Katze, @J.Ross
Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night
God said "Let Newton Be"
And all was light.
I've been going over Newton's Principia of late - in English alas, I learned a new word that I'd only known through its main derivative, that word is lemma.
The amount of work that these guys did is astonishing, Newton sending a note to a correspondent (I don't think he had friends) apologizing for the delay in getting back to him but he'd had some new thoughts on the mass of the earth and had to get them into a form where they'd be useful to Edmond Halley in his work on comets, just made me smile. In his spare time, of course there was calculus to be invented, along with colour.
It takes me a couple of days to respond to a text message.
I find this all very irritating. Us whites -- and white males in particular -- have clearly surpassed all other groups in achievement over the last five hundred years. No one would seriously want to live in a world deprived of what white males have brought to the table.
Now -- unlike some -- I think it's tacky to endlessly rub everyone's nose in this fact, but if people are going to insist on the complete opposite, I feel justified in pointing out the truth.Replies: @Peter Johnson, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Travis, @AnotherDad, @Twinkie, @Buzz Mohawk
Well stated, but I think you miss the religious zealotry involved here. Google has been captured by the zealous Wokeism religion. They want to brainwash the Western world into their religious doctrine.
Steve, I believe that square actually depicts Isaac Cardozo Marrano Bendoza, who discovered the Spanish Inquisition Uncertainty Principle.
Professional illustrators need not be worried.Replies: @Peter Johnson, @Corpse Tooth, @Joe S.Walker, @Mr. Blank
Yes, and also they are blandly predictable with no artistic flair. It is a notable achievement that they are produced without direct human intervention, but they are TBH a bit crappy as artistic accomplishments. I wonder if that will change as the AI systems evolve.
https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/05/58/16/81/360_F_558168147_G1yKj4nkQsel4g2MH1U8j7MN8DVyOOmr.jpg
https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/06/12/76/81/360_F_612768124_NxGsg9mmibD2qkEGRjLyM7y2HAbNDHHK.jpg
https://t3.ftcdn.net/jpg/05/68/98/66/360_F_568986660_M6nbtoSWxQ7BXP5igkSZ9sen49lc4wRz.jpgReplies: @Dr. DoomNGloom, @Mike Tre, @Harry Baldwin
That a montage of 17th century physicists does not include Isaac Newton is unforgivable and non-serious.
The google pics seem obsessed with silly tropes rather than representations of Physicists doing real physics things.
A Physicist would die of embarrassment if caught pictured in a lab coat. Lab coats aren’t appropriate. (they are more appropriate to a chemistry or biology lab)
This is symptomatic of a larger trend at Google. In the day, Google was my go-to source for search. In recent years, however, it’s clear that the results have been “curated”, or less charitably, censored. Trying to get good answers from Google search is now more a game, while they pummel the poor user with paid for rankings. Worse than paid for is the trend toward outright thumb on the scales for any topic even the least controversial.
This wouldn’t be a problem if I could just go somewhere else, but the competitors simply are not as strong on the actual search.
I find this all very irritating. Us whites -- and white males in particular -- have clearly surpassed all other groups in achievement over the last five hundred years. No one would seriously want to live in a world deprived of what white males have brought to the table.
Now -- unlike some -- I think it's tacky to endlessly rub everyone's nose in this fact, but if people are going to insist on the complete opposite, I feel justified in pointing out the truth.Replies: @Peter Johnson, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Travis, @AnotherDad, @Twinkie, @Buzz Mohawk
“I think it’s tacky to endlessly rub everyone’s nose in this fact, but if people are going to insist on the complete opposite, I feel justified in pointing out the truth.“
Thanks for articulating that. I’ve often felt that way on a variety of topics.
“We know that they are lying, they know that they are lying, they even know that we know they are lying, we also know that they know we know they are lying too, they of course know that we certainly know they know we know they are lying too as well, but they are still lying." ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Having an option for "diversity" would defeat the entire point since everyone except racial activists would choose "historically accurate". And an option would not poke white people in the eyes with sharp sticks.Replies: @JR Ewing, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Anonymous
I’m still struggling with the response to “show me a white ______” with, “Sorry, I can’t show you anything hateful that would be hurtful to someone.” (I’m paraphrasing)
Besides the ludicrous idea that merely seeing a random picture is considered “hurtful”, the misuse of the word “hate” is also brought to mind. That word has completely lost all meaning these days.
I respectfully disagree. I think the late Joseph Sobran captured the idea in describing the subset of "hate" known as "anti-Semitism." Sobran wrote that anti-Semitism used to refer to someone who hates Jews but that now it refers to someone that Jews hate. I think the same thing applies to "hate" more generally. The Wokesters hate us and they want us dead.
OT- Mearsheimer is, surprisingly, right about something ….
Yes, no Chinese, Japanese…
Neither the blackboard or whiteboard existed in the 17 century.Replies: @ThreeCranes
And the globe (2nd down, far right) is completely modern, a Replogle from the mall science store.
Let’s see, there’s:
7 gazers through brass telescopes, all on plain, non-equatorial mounts, so no tracking planets or stars there without complicated gymnastics.
4 hand lens people—who knew the simple, all-too-often-overlooked hand lens could yield such ground-breaking results?
3 globe gazers who can prove to you that the Earth is not flat
3 people who have just learned how to use a compass (commendable of course, but….
3 feather people. Whether this celebrates aeronautical engineering or penmanship is not clear.
4 black men engaged in deep mystical meditation
5 Cosmologists whose work is either Astrology or Astronomy.
Assorted geometricians, Erlenmeyer flask people, people standing in front of backgrounds filled with numeric calculations—most preposterously, a Native American bare-breasted woman. Could these people even count? Did they have written digits with which to represent quantities?
White people! We have a lot of catching up to do. Put down the cell phone, put away the bong, shut off the boob tube and get cracking!
This David Rozado guy is not all that open-minded, himself. Every time I tried to register or post a comment at his substack, I got “Something went wrong.” I had no history with the mook, so I could only conclude that he buys into one of the White lists (splc? adl?) floating around.
OT, but fits Steve’s continuing notice of blacks driving badly.
https://www.autoblog.com/2024/02/22/video-amazon-delivery-driver-survives-train-collision/
“I think most people would agree that a self-anointed group of elites making those decisions is probably sub-optimal. A more promising alternative might be personalized AI systems where individual users can adjust the knobs themselves and decide for instance how much accuracy/truth they are willing to sacrifice in favor of AI outputs conforming to certain normative values.”
I think most people would agree that a self-anointed group of educators making those decisions is probably sub-optimal. A more promising alternative might be personalized grading systems where individual users can adjust the questions or problems themselves and decide for instance how much accuracy/truth they are willing to sacrifice in favor of getting A+++’s conforming to certain normative values.
Endless compromise, what can’t it do?
https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/05/58/16/81/360_F_558168147_G1yKj4nkQsel4g2MH1U8j7MN8DVyOOmr.jpg
https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/06/12/76/81/360_F_612768124_NxGsg9mmibD2qkEGRjLyM7y2HAbNDHHK.jpg
https://t3.ftcdn.net/jpg/05/68/98/66/360_F_568986660_M6nbtoSWxQ7BXP5igkSZ9sen49lc4wRz.jpgReplies: @Dr. DoomNGloom, @Mike Tre, @Harry Baldwin
I remember many years ago coming to the conclusion that the way things were going, anything 'white' would eventually be seen as immoral, down to the level of the nuclear family. Of course this was the kind of opinion which sounded crazy when I told people out loud. And yet, here we are, with google refusing to show images of white families for that very reason.
I believe there was an obscure dystopian racialist novel in which whites were forbidden to breed with other whites in order to create a non-racist future. This probably also would have sounded like a crazy right-wing fantasy when it was first suggested, but does it really seem so far fetched now?Replies: @SafeNow, @onetwothree, @res
A few ago I read a blog-plus-comments that speculated upon: Who, from modern times, will still be remembered 100 years from now? Comments leaned toward obvious choices, such as Einstein and Freud, but some commenters made the case for Elon Musk or The Beatles. Well, it could be that the best comment would be, simply: “Nobody.” This is possible, because Whites will have been erased, and the AI fictitious people have physical characteristics, but do not have actual names. However, it could be that actual names will be invented for some characteristics-only people.
"Sure uncle Teddy and yes, the moon is a spaceship, obviously."
This brings up the importance of whiteness.
If you loved your children, you’d want them to live in a White country. All these upper class White yuppies who live in lily white enclaves couldn’t care less about their descendants. They’re bad people. Places like Vermont, Connecticut and the suburbs of DC are full of them.
Many will say, honest Injun, they love their children, look how much they spend on them and brag on them. That’s not love – not real familial love. That’s using kids as a status symbol in a competition with other yuppies.
If they were thinking of the best way to ensure their descendants, a hundred years after they’re dead, had a good life, they’d want them to live in a White country. That’s more valuable than leaving them riches. It’s a safer bet to be middle class in Sweden than rich in an unstable 3rd world country.
Which is YOUR religion. Must it be required for all white people to kow tow to?
"If you loved your children, you’d want them to live in a White country."
Since when are you the morality police?
Thankfully, you and your ilk represent an extremist view that normies outright reject, and that absolutely riles you to no end.
"That’s not love – not real familial love."
No True Scotsman Fallacy.
"Yes. We haven’t committed any unique sins. But we have done a lot of unique good."
So deflect the blame and accentuate the positives. That's what white people. It's in our DNA. That is unique to our "race". Don't blame me, blame HbD.
The fact of the matter is that 1) you have an arbitrary definition of "whiteness", 2) you would support the forced removal and/or murder of anyone, including whites, who did not subscribe to your racial ideology if our government was taken over by "pro-whites", and 3) you contribute to this alleged "white genocide" committed by Jews and their proxies by refusing to become directly involved in stopping it from continuing.
“We know that they are lying, they know that they are lying, they even know that we know they are lying, we also know that they know we know they are lying too, they of course know that we certainly know they know we know they are lying too as well, but they are still lying." ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Having an option for "diversity" would defeat the entire point since everyone except racial activists would choose "historically accurate". And an option would not poke white people in the eyes with sharp sticks.Replies: @JR Ewing, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Anonymous
Yep, Steve and other nice guy writers can’t accept a simple truth: they hate us and the white race destroyed.
Steve twists himself into knots trying to explain why our rulers do what they do. “It’s momey” or “It’s about power” ot “They’re misguided do gooders.”
No, Steve. They hate us and what whites brought to our knees.
The problem is that these people are in positions of power. They must be removed.Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Corvinus
I find this all very irritating. Us whites -- and white males in particular -- have clearly surpassed all other groups in achievement over the last five hundred years. No one would seriously want to live in a world deprived of what white males have brought to the table.
Now -- unlike some -- I think it's tacky to endlessly rub everyone's nose in this fact, but if people are going to insist on the complete opposite, I feel justified in pointing out the truth.Replies: @Peter Johnson, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Travis, @AnotherDad, @Twinkie, @Buzz Mohawk
Actually most other races have surpassed Whites over the past 50 years. We failed to control our women and failed to maintain our population while allowing non-whites to invade our nations. We did not bother to resist the invasions, nor did we resist the woke take over of our schools , churches and institutions. We allow others to mock us , distort our history and libel our people.
While whites may have had a brief period of material success, we appear to lack the ability to defend our population in the current world. Thus we will not be around too much longer. The ultimate winners will be those left standing while the losers become an extinct race.
OT – New Cell Phone Records Prove DA Willis Affair
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/new-cell-phone-records-prove-da-willis-affair
But remember, Hunter Biden’s laptop has 1000’s of photo’s of him smoking crack, abusing prostitutes, and possibly sexual abusing his underage niece:
https://bidenlaptopmedia.com/
Crickets
"Possibly" you say? Anyway, next time, you should maybe lead with that instead of tangling yourself up in Russian disinfo:Replies: @Mr. Anon, @J.Ross, @Mike Tre, @Jack D
This headline is peak Boomer Steve.
And just days after we all found out that the Stancil Thing was just a way for that clown to springboard a political campaign.
I watched the Bob Marley movie.
One positive was they didn’t shoehorn in anachronistic amounts of blacks, cos they were all black anyways, except Marley’s father who makes a small appearance being rayciss.
Pretty boring film actually and half the time I couldn’t understand what they were saying.
https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/05/58/16/81/360_F_558168147_G1yKj4nkQsel4g2MH1U8j7MN8DVyOOmr.jpg
https://t4.ftcdn.net/jpg/06/12/76/81/360_F_612768124_NxGsg9mmibD2qkEGRjLyM7y2HAbNDHHK.jpg
https://t3.ftcdn.net/jpg/05/68/98/66/360_F_568986660_M6nbtoSWxQ7BXP5igkSZ9sen49lc4wRz.jpgReplies: @Dr. DoomNGloom, @Mike Tre, @Harry Baldwin
I am troubled by the underrepresentation of black and brown mammals.
Well, bless his heart!
What we are seeing is what Orwell warned us about- the past is literally being erased and rewritten.
Exactly when did you give these freaks your money?
You’re mistaken, this isn’t a company seeking a market, this is more like a Renaissance patron commandimg artists who will starve without him.
Even were it otherwise, look at Bill Ackman discovering what his money is worth.
Going by current trends, the person most remembered will be some nobody who did nothing, who will be built into a legend so the X ethnicity can claim to be accomplished.
https://www.autoblog.com/2024/02/22/video-amazon-delivery-driver-survives-train-collision/Replies: @J.Ross
Look, it’s fun to hate black people, but we really need to start a conversation about Amazon’s combination of ubiquity and cheapness predictably generating consistently some of the worst drivers on the road.
Are you using a VPN? Sometimes those cause vaguely-specified failures (“Something went wrong.”).
I find this all very irritating. Us whites -- and white males in particular -- have clearly surpassed all other groups in achievement over the last five hundred years. No one would seriously want to live in a world deprived of what white males have brought to the table.
Now -- unlike some -- I think it's tacky to endlessly rub everyone's nose in this fact, but if people are going to insist on the complete opposite, I feel justified in pointing out the truth.Replies: @Peter Johnson, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Travis, @AnotherDad, @Twinkie, @Buzz Mohawk
I find this all very irritating. Us whites — and white males in particular — have clearly surpassed all other groups in achievement over the last five hundred years. No one would seriously want to live in a world deprived of what white males have brought to the table.
Now — unlike some — I think it’s tacky to endlessly rub everyone’s nose in this fact, but if people are going to insist on the complete opposite, I feel justified in pointing out the truth.
Exactly. Extremely well said Colin.
I did not personally invent Newton’s laws of motion–or for that matter calculus. But I also didn’t pilot a slave ship to the America’s–my people’s one great world historical crime.
I’m fine with history–no need to whitewash anything. But when someone opens their yap with this oppressed minorities drivel … then seriously, white guys have done more for humanity than anyone else …. by a landslide. Without white guys … everyone would essentially be camping, permanently (and without all the cool gear). You wouldn’t even know what you all are missing.
And the same for “you go girl!”. Men and women are by nature complementary. Women have their role. Men have their role. And we fit together very nicely. But when I hear all this minoritarian style blah, blah, blah about men, male oppression, “women in charge!” … Seriously. We’d be squatting in caves if we were dependent upon innovation from women. I’m not even sure about fire, we’d probably still be in Africa. On the other hand talking–that we’d have.
Never in human history have so many owed so much to so few.
https://hrc-prod-requests.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/_1200x630_crop_center-center_none/Global_MarriageEquality_WebsiteImages_121021_1600x900.png
(Nonwhite exceptions: Greenland [Danish control], South Africa [white SCOTROSA justice], Taiwan [rogue judge; desire to keep white West happy])
Abolishing divorce was an achievement. What is abolishing marriage?Replies: @Anonymous, @Renard
https://cdn.kastatic.org/ka-perseus-images/5e396bd030c264b95a437898526590064be5c3ea.jpgReplies: @Buzz Mohawk, @AnotherDad, @J.Ross, @Anonymous Jew
Exactly. Extremely well said Colin.I did not personally invent Newton's laws of motion--or for that matter calculus. But I also didn't pilot a slave ship to the America's--my people's one great world historical crime.I'm fine with history--no need to whitewash anything. But when someone opens their yap with this oppressed minorities drivel ... then seriously, white guys have done more for humanity than anyone else .... by a landslide. Without white guys ... everyone would essentially be camping, permanently (and without all the cool gear). You wouldn't even know what you all are missing.And the same for "you go girl!". Men and women are by nature complementary. Women have their role. Men have their role. And we fit together very nicely. But when I hear all this minoritarian style blah, blah, blah about men, male oppression, "women in charge!" ... Seriously. We'd be squatting in caves if we were dependent upon innovation from women. I'm not even sure about fire, we'd probably still be in Africa. On the other hand talking--that we'd have.
Never in human history have so many owed so much to so few.Replies: @Loyalty is The First Law of Morality, @Corvinus, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Twinkie, @Jack D
However, I would say that you are part of a white society that made such things possible, and it truly did take millions of us for those accomplishments to be possible.
Yes. We haven’t committed any unique sins. But we have done a lot of unique good.
I remember many years ago coming to the conclusion that the way things were going, anything 'white' would eventually be seen as immoral, down to the level of the nuclear family. Of course this was the kind of opinion which sounded crazy when I told people out loud. And yet, here we are, with google refusing to show images of white families for that very reason.
I believe there was an obscure dystopian racialist novel in which whites were forbidden to breed with other whites in order to create a non-racist future. This probably also would have sounded like a crazy right-wing fantasy when it was first suggested, but does it really seem so far fetched now?Replies: @SafeNow, @onetwothree, @res
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Gaspar_Rodr%C3%ADguez_de_Francia
In March 1814, Francia imposed a law that no Spaniard may intermarry with another Spaniard, and that they may only wed mestizos, Amerindians, or Africans. This was done to eliminate any socioeconomic disparities along racial lines, and also to end the predominantly criollo and peninsulare influence in Paraguay. De Francia himself was not a mestizo, but feared that racial disparities would create tensions that could threaten his absolute rule
Hey, I’m for anything that makes it even funnier .The 17th century Indian chick looking at a leaf with a magnifying glass ,that’s comedy gold, the vikings crack me up.
Galileo Galilei
Newton, Isaac
Kepler, Johannes
Halley, Edmond
Cassini, Giovanni
Huygens, Christiaan
Hooke, Robert
Hevelius, Johannes
Descartes, René
Torricelli, Evangelista
Guericke, Otto von
Flamsteed, John
Mayr, Simon
Scheiner, Christoph
Gassendi, Pierre
Jansen, Zacharias
Grimaldi, Francesco
Römer, Ole
Snel, Willebrord
Bartholin, Erasmus
Riccioli, Giambattista
Fabricius, David
Horrocks, Jeremiah
Cabeo, Niccolo
Bayer, Johann
Sauveur, Joseph
And yes, 100% Euro: 6 each Italian, German, and British; 3 each French and Dutch; 2 Danes and Pole. So, plenty of diversity there.
---------
*These are the floruit 1600-1700 from Murray's "Science" inventory with the sub-fields of Physics, Astronomy, and Earth Science, since those fields were quite overlapped in the 17th century. Filtering down to only "pure" physics reduces to this list:
Newton, Isaac
Galileo Galilei
Huygens, Christiaan
Hooke, Robert
Descartes, René
Torricelli, Evangelista
Guericke, Otto von
Jansen, Zacharias
Grimaldi, Francesco
Snel, Willebrord
Bartholin, Erasmus
Sauveur, Joseph
3 each Italian and Dutch, 2 each French and British, and 1 each German and Danish. (Dutch per capita outperformance is notable in these lists.)Replies: @Corvinus, @lavoisier, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Bill Jones
Indeed, plenty of diversity. Of course, they owe tremendous gratitude for:
the travels of Marco Polo, which made Europeans extremely curious about the world and facilitated cartography;
the major innovations from China like gunpowder, the compass, and the printing press;
the mathematical foundations of India and Arabia that made its way to Europe;
and the preservation of Ancient Greek and Roman texts by Muslims.
Truly, an explosive combination.
You are welcome.
But, moving on, why didn't the Chinese or the Indians or the Arabs invent modern science? Any ideas, numnut?
Exactly. Extremely well said Colin.I did not personally invent Newton's laws of motion--or for that matter calculus. But I also didn't pilot a slave ship to the America's--my people's one great world historical crime.I'm fine with history--no need to whitewash anything. But when someone opens their yap with this oppressed minorities drivel ... then seriously, white guys have done more for humanity than anyone else .... by a landslide. Without white guys ... everyone would essentially be camping, permanently (and without all the cool gear). You wouldn't even know what you all are missing.And the same for "you go girl!". Men and women are by nature complementary. Women have their role. Men have their role. And we fit together very nicely. But when I hear all this minoritarian style blah, blah, blah about men, male oppression, "women in charge!" ... Seriously. We'd be squatting in caves if we were dependent upon innovation from women. I'm not even sure about fire, we'd probably still be in Africa. On the other hand talking--that we'd have.
Never in human history have so many owed so much to so few.Replies: @Loyalty is The First Law of Morality, @Corvinus, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Twinkie, @Jack D
“white guys have done more for humanity than anyone else …. by a landslide”
Indeed. Colonization and imperialism. The forced removal of indigenous groups from their land. Two world wars.
And, of course, “white progress” relied on ideas and innovations from non-whites.
Listen, this “white men done everything for the world right” gets tiresome. Thus, the reality check.
If the Aztecs had napalm and nukes the world would have been such a better place; amiright?Replies: @Corvinus, @Brutusale
https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Screenshot-2024-02-23-at-10.35.30%E2%80%AFPM.png
Classic Orwellian ploy - "reality" means "the opposite of reality".
Here is a clue - the antidote to lies is not telling more lies. If white people are not telling the whole truth about their past, which includes colonialism and slavery as well as the scientific method and the industrial revolution, then the solution is not to lie about the past of people of color and turn them into 17th century scientists when they weren't. Even a partial truth is better than a complete lie.Replies: @Corvinus, @Bardon Kaldian
OpenAI's Sora (https://openai.com/sora) could generate commercials on-the-fly. It would be a win-win.
Who wants to see ghetto blacks in commercials for online sports betting during a movie about, say, Michelangelo (e.g., Il Peccato)?Replies: @AnotherDad
Not just commercials–the programs.
The “must have blacks!”–blacks jammed in everywhere–thing is one of the most annoying deals ever. It is a very American imposition. Blacks are the diversity fetish object for the people who’ve used the black experience in America as their cudgel to beat whitey and impose minoritarianism.
But blacks are not “appealing”–visually or behaviorally. It certainly makes sense to have shows with blacks for blacks. But “the world” as a whole does not want to want to look at blacks. Most people mostly want to look at people like themselves. But beyond that more attractive/interesting people–that is not blacks.
I can’t even count the number of times AnotherMom and I have pulled the plug on something that started jamming blacks–likewise the homos–at us. Click. (You can’t even fire up some Jane Austen style period piece costume drama anymore … blacks!) But even more we see the squib on something that might be interesting to us and realize it’s going to serve up generous portions of blacks and homos.
Not doing blackification is one of those $1,000,000 bills sitting on the sidewalk. That it is not grabbed up, just makes the point that this is not “all about the money”, but heavily ideological.
This portrait is real. It's not made up by AI. There really is a black guy standing next to Washington. He's not another general. He's Washington's property. But he is really there:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/George_Washington_by_John_Trumbull_%281780%29.jpg
But the UK had essentially zero blacks prior to 1948 so anything set before 1948 that includes blacks is 99% likely to be a lie. Nowadays it's called "diverse casting" or something but what it is is a lie and as time goes on we can see that it's not a harmless lie or what used to be called a "white lie".Replies: @Gordo, @Hypnotoad666, @AnotherDad
“and the preservation of Ancient Greek and Roman texts by Muslims.”
Well, they did a pretty bad job at it considering that we only have about 10 % of ancient Greek texts, and that Muslims destroyed the Byzantine Christian East where those texts were being preserved pretty fine in the first place. It’s like thanking a thug for not thrashing everything in your house and for letting you keep a minuscule part of your belongings. Do you realize how ridiculous your argument sounds?
The Turks destroyed the Eastern Roman Empire, but not before the Crusaders had sacked it already.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Constantinople
In Charles Murray's Human Accomplishment, Persians e.g. Avicenna are listed as part of the Western canon
https://i.postimg.cc/qqRShf0H/Sukuri-nshotto-1.pngReplies: @BB753, @Almost Missouri
“17th century physicists” According to NPR, the word Scientist was coined in 1834. So there were likely no physicists in the years 1600-1700.
How The Word ‘Scientist’ Came To Be
https://www.npr.org/2010/05/21/127037417/how-the-word-scientist-came-to-be
Dr. DoomNGloom cited the effectively deliberate omission of Sir Isaac Newton, who lived from 1642 to 1726/27 and was one of the greatest physicists ever, and mathematicians as well as a co-inventor of calculus. A New Thing that joined algebra and geometry as one of the universally agreed upon great branches of the subject. (It was necessary for "Newtonian" or classical mechanics, which is the foundational subject of real SCIENCE!!!)Replies: @Frau Katze
The picture of the “17th century physicists” was not Bridgertonish, it was Hamiltonian. In Bridgerton, you retcon SOME non-whites into history, in Hamilton you get rid of almost ALL of them (except to play the evil roles). So when you get the slider to adjust the amount of lies that Gemini will inject into your images, Bridgerton will be at 5 and Hamilton will be at 10.
I saw some Twitter exchange where some Leftist was endorsing Gemini as it was – no need to change it. Part of his defense was, “You liked Hamilton, didn’t you?”
In retrospect, Hamilton (the musical) was not harmless and should not have been tolerated. It was a spoonful of sugar (singing! dancing! a patriotic message!) to help the noxious medicine (a past and a future with no white people) go down.
What is most interesting about this entirely sensible proposal will be to see how the tech giants respond to it.
Can they really bring themselves to implement it, when they know how it exposes their ideological agenda? Yet on what grounds can they refuse to implement it?
I have a feeling we’re going to hear many excuses why it just can’t be done.
The "must have blacks!"--blacks jammed in everywhere--thing is one of the most annoying deals ever. It is a very American imposition. Blacks are the diversity fetish object for the people who've used the black experience in America as their cudgel to beat whitey and impose minoritarianism.
But blacks are not "appealing"--visually or behaviorally. It certainly makes sense to have shows with blacks for blacks. But "the world" as a whole does not want to want to look at blacks. Most people mostly want to look at people like themselves. But beyond that more attractive/interesting people--that is not blacks.
I can't even count the number of times AnotherMom and I have pulled the plug on something that started jamming blacks--likewise the homos--at us. Click. (You can't even fire up some Jane Austen style period piece costume drama anymore ... blacks!) But even more we see the squib on something that might be interesting to us and realize it's going to serve up generous portions of blacks and homos.
Not doing blackification is one of those $1,000,000 bills sitting on the sidewalk. That it is not grabbed up, just makes the point that this is not "all about the money", but heavily ideological.Replies: @MGB, @Jack D, @Old Prude
TV has always been a pernicious influence, but it’s like a vampire: you have to invite it into your home. Nowadays we have writers who have no culture to draw upon to write TV scripts other than TV itself. AI is even worse. In 20 years no one will be capable of drawing a stick figure or composing an email without it. Why anyone would avail themselves of its genius is beyond me.
The "must have blacks!"--blacks jammed in everywhere--thing is one of the most annoying deals ever. It is a very American imposition. Blacks are the diversity fetish object for the people who've used the black experience in America as their cudgel to beat whitey and impose minoritarianism.
But blacks are not "appealing"--visually or behaviorally. It certainly makes sense to have shows with blacks for blacks. But "the world" as a whole does not want to want to look at blacks. Most people mostly want to look at people like themselves. But beyond that more attractive/interesting people--that is not blacks.
I can't even count the number of times AnotherMom and I have pulled the plug on something that started jamming blacks--likewise the homos--at us. Click. (You can't even fire up some Jane Austen style period piece costume drama anymore ... blacks!) But even more we see the squib on something that might be interesting to us and realize it's going to serve up generous portions of blacks and homos.
Not doing blackification is one of those $1,000,000 bills sitting on the sidewalk. That it is not grabbed up, just makes the point that this is not "all about the money", but heavily ideological.Replies: @MGB, @Jack D, @Old Prude
Only if “American” means “stuff I don’t like” or “American influence”. I see the gratuitous blacks retconned into history on British TV programs now all the time. It’s especially grating in British programs. The US really DID have blacks almost from day 1.
This portrait is real. It’s not made up by AI. There really is a black guy standing next to Washington. He’s not another general. He’s Washington’s property. But he is really there:
But the UK had essentially zero blacks prior to 1948 so anything set before 1948 that includes blacks is 99% likely to be a lie. Nowadays it’s called “diverse casting” or something but what it is is a lie and as time goes on we can see that it’s not a harmless lie or what used to be called a “white lie”.
Did Washington really make his slaves wear red turbans with feathers? I am going to go out on a limb and say that is probably historically inaccurate.
But your point that black people existed in Colonial America is certainly true.Replies: @Jack D, @Mike Tre
But you are actually making precisely my point. Alone among Western nations America has had a large black population. The whole "Negro question" has been an American thing ... forever. No other white nations were obsessed with blacks ... because they didn't have a bunch of blacks.
Post 1945 America dominated the West--politically and militarily--and with 3X the population of the rest of the Anglosphere dominated it politically, academically, culturally. As you noted they had essentially zero blacks until 1948, but in a fit of imperial arrogance--and some cheap labor shilling greed--allowed immigration of commonwealth randos. And then--shockingly diversity created not joy but contention--they stupidly aped the minoritarian policies from America. We get a "Civil Rights Act", they get a "Racial Relations Act". We get another "Civil Rights Act", they get another "Racial Relations Act".
The big difference--at least peering over from America--seems to be that the Brits:
a) lack a real constitution so the super-state has had an easier time rolling out totalitarian thought police
b) have a state media; so the BBC just shovels out the super-state's diversity propaganda; (sort of like if we had Democratic Party TV channel)
But you'll note that even though the Brits have about twice as many South Asians, than blacks--7% vs. 3.5%--their "diversity" casting--including a-historical diversity--is still much more about "blacks!!!"
Why ... because they have imbibed this "blacks!!!" obsession from America.Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Frau Katze, @Anonymous
the travels of Marco Polo, which made Europeans extremely curious about the world and facilitated cartography;
the major innovations from China like gunpowder, the compass, and the printing press;
the mathematical foundations of India and Arabia that made its way to Europe;
and the preservation of Ancient Greek and Roman texts by Muslims.
Truly, an explosive combination.Replies: @Old Prude, @Mr. Anon
Sure, non-Europeans invented lots of stuff and did what with it? Bupkus. Nothing. It sat there in the stagnant, sterile cultures as a curio until the white man showed up and used it to conquer the world and beyond.
You are welcome.
Boohoo. Whitey showed up and ended human sacrifice, cannibalism, constant war, slavery, wife-burning…All those vibrant local customs.
If the Aztecs had napalm and nukes the world would have been such a better place; amiright?
Specific examples are required here.
“It sat there in the stagnant, sterile cultures”
According to Who/Whom? Besides, why should the white man impress his standards across the world against one”s will? Isn’t that the very essence of being a Neo con?
“white man showed up and used it to conquer the world and beyond.”
Might makes right.
“Boohoo. Whitey showed up”
Invade the world, invite the world.
“and ended human sacrifice, cannibalism, wife burning”
OK.
“constant war, slavery”
You mean whites ma expanded those two thing.
“If the Aztecs had napalm and nukes the world would have been such a better place; amiright?”
Again, might makes right in your mind.
How The Word 'Scientist' Came To Be
https://www.npr.org/2010/05/21/127037417/how-the-word-scientist-came-to-beReplies: @That Would Be Telling
We’re perfectly capable of retroactively labeling scientists as such.
Dr. DoomNGloom cited the effectively deliberate omission of Sir Isaac Newton, who lived from 1642 to 1726/27 and was one of the greatest physicists ever, and mathematicians as well as a co-inventor of calculus. A New Thing that joined algebra and geometry as one of the universally agreed upon great branches of the subject. (It was necessary for “Newtonian” or classical mechanics, which is the foundational subject of real SCIENCE!!!)
The "must have blacks!"--blacks jammed in everywhere--thing is one of the most annoying deals ever. It is a very American imposition. Blacks are the diversity fetish object for the people who've used the black experience in America as their cudgel to beat whitey and impose minoritarianism.
But blacks are not "appealing"--visually or behaviorally. It certainly makes sense to have shows with blacks for blacks. But "the world" as a whole does not want to want to look at blacks. Most people mostly want to look at people like themselves. But beyond that more attractive/interesting people--that is not blacks.
I can't even count the number of times AnotherMom and I have pulled the plug on something that started jamming blacks--likewise the homos--at us. Click. (You can't even fire up some Jane Austen style period piece costume drama anymore ... blacks!) But even more we see the squib on something that might be interesting to us and realize it's going to serve up generous portions of blacks and homos.
Not doing blackification is one of those $1,000,000 bills sitting on the sidewalk. That it is not grabbed up, just makes the point that this is not "all about the money", but heavily ideological.Replies: @MGB, @Jack D, @Old Prude
Mrs Prude is not full on board with the anti-anti-white activities, but she’s getting there. I will add two more to the list of things that make me turn the page/channel: Immigrants and the Holocaust.
The New Criterion is a fabulous magazine, but if the article is about blacks, homosexuals, or the Holocaust (or jews yammering about being jewish), I skip it. I’ve enough of that garbage to last four lifetimes.
It has nothing to do with hating black people. My desire to avoid hippopotamuses has nothing to do with hate, it’s understanding that getting near them is dangerous if not fatal.
This portrait is real. It's not made up by AI. There really is a black guy standing next to Washington. He's not another general. He's Washington's property. But he is really there:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/George_Washington_by_John_Trumbull_%281780%29.jpg
But the UK had essentially zero blacks prior to 1948 so anything set before 1948 that includes blacks is 99% likely to be a lie. Nowadays it's called "diverse casting" or something but what it is is a lie and as time goes on we can see that it's not a harmless lie or what used to be called a "white lie".Replies: @Gordo, @Hypnotoad666, @AnotherDad
Run out of Agrees, but Agree.
“We know that they are lying, they know that they are lying, they even know that we know they are lying, we also know that they know we know they are lying too, they of course know that we certainly know they know we know they are lying too as well, but they are still lying." ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Having an option for "diversity" would defeat the entire point since everyone except racial activists would choose "historically accurate". And an option would not poke white people in the eyes with sharp sticks.Replies: @JR Ewing, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Anonymous
You’re an idiot. What would be the point of poking White people in the eye for its own sake? What would non-Whites gain from that?
Does BLM give a shit about saving any black lives?Replies: @Anonymous
I remember many years ago coming to the conclusion that the way things were going, anything 'white' would eventually be seen as immoral, down to the level of the nuclear family. Of course this was the kind of opinion which sounded crazy when I told people out loud. And yet, here we are, with google refusing to show images of white families for that very reason.
I believe there was an obscure dystopian racialist novel in which whites were forbidden to breed with other whites in order to create a non-racist future. This probably also would have sounded like a crazy right-wing fantasy when it was first suggested, but does it really seem so far fetched now?Replies: @SafeNow, @onetwothree, @res
I went looking for that novel, but did not find it. Anyone?
While looking I ran across this which seemed worth sharing (for the reviews at the link).
Revealing Eden (Save the Pearls #1)
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/12393909
The Amazon reviews are fun as well. The punchline there is that used hardbacks start at $35.
I wonder if 100 years from now there will be white hoteps trying to convince everyone that once upon a time white people were kings and all the great art and all the science and engineering we depend on today came from their work.
“Sure uncle Teddy and yes, the moon is a spaceship, obviously.”
Does this look like “reality” to you?
Classic Orwellian ploy – “reality” means “the opposite of reality”.
Here is a clue – the antidote to lies is not telling more lies. If white people are not telling the whole truth about their past, which includes colonialism and slavery as well as the scientific method and the industrial revolution, then the solution is not to lie about the past of people of color and turn them into 17th century scientists when they weren’t. Even a partial truth is better than a complete lie.
Exactly. Extremely well said Colin.I did not personally invent Newton's laws of motion--or for that matter calculus. But I also didn't pilot a slave ship to the America's--my people's one great world historical crime.I'm fine with history--no need to whitewash anything. But when someone opens their yap with this oppressed minorities drivel ... then seriously, white guys have done more for humanity than anyone else .... by a landslide. Without white guys ... everyone would essentially be camping, permanently (and without all the cool gear). You wouldn't even know what you all are missing.And the same for "you go girl!". Men and women are by nature complementary. Women have their role. Men have their role. And we fit together very nicely. But when I hear all this minoritarian style blah, blah, blah about men, male oppression, "women in charge!" ... Seriously. We'd be squatting in caves if we were dependent upon innovation from women. I'm not even sure about fire, we'd probably still be in Africa. On the other hand talking--that we'd have.
Never in human history have so many owed so much to so few.Replies: @Loyalty is The First Law of Morality, @Corvinus, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Twinkie, @Jack D
It was not a “world historical crime.” The Africans were taken out of Africa, where they had already been enslaved by other Africans, and brought to a prosperous new territory where they enjoyed a standard of living on par with the median European of the day. Their population in the American territory boomed and their descendants are now the wealthiest African population in the planet.
If they had remained in Africa they probably would have been killed or eaten, or would have starved. It is doubtful many would have had any descendants at all.
Chattel slavery is a wonderful custom! Just not for me or my family, thankyouverymuch.
Race-based chattel slavery, terrific! Although me and my co-ethnics will pass.
Many such institutions, throughout history. Press gangs, cannibalism, ruinous taxation, etc. I think their decline over time is a good thing. Silly me.Replies: @Anonymous
First off slave trade/slavery also was a "crime" against individual Africans. Slavery was ubiquitous, but it does suck.
We white folks have done all the usual nasty stuff--slavery, serfdom, rape and pillage, war, empire, oppression, torture, slaughter ... you name it. That just means we are ... humans.
However, white people actually created improved norms. When the Brits abolished and worked to suppress the slave trade, they ran into resistance. The various elite parasites around the globe, liked doing slavery, serfdom, oppressing and looting the peasantry, etc. etc. And they would be doing it still--they are doing it still just less--but for the norms imposed by Western man. (Ex. Saudi Prince Bandar's--"Bandar Bush"--mom was a slave.)
But our people's one true world historical crime, is giving black Africans an entirely unearned massive demographic expansion into the New World.
History is replete with demographic expansions from conquest. For example, something like 10% or so of Central Asians carry the Genghis Khan family Y-chromosome. I don't think much of the Mongols, but at least they earned it. But Africans could not and would not have expanded into the New World without white people doing the job for them. The Western Hemisphere ought to be some mix of the original Indians and the conquering Europeans--with no blacks around. Our greed and stupidity handed the Africans this massive demographic expansion.
However, against this one great crime, white people--really "the West"--has delivered an absolutely unparalleled pile of accomplishments. Many peoples have built civilizations--agriculture, money, trade, writing language, etc.--and had a few notable accomplishments. But no one else is even in the neighborhood--on the same planet--as what European man has accomplished, including obviously creating modern science. Anyone following us--however they run with the ball--will be building on the white man's tremendous legacy.
And all that said ... our great tragedy is we are in the process of yet another--and much, much, much more tragic and vile world historical crime ... allowing another unearned demographic expansion other peoples this time into our own homelands!Replies: @Jack D
https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Screenshot-2024-02-23-at-10.35.30%E2%80%AFPM.png
Classic Orwellian ploy - "reality" means "the opposite of reality".
Here is a clue - the antidote to lies is not telling more lies. If white people are not telling the whole truth about their past, which includes colonialism and slavery as well as the scientific method and the industrial revolution, then the solution is not to lie about the past of people of color and turn them into 17th century scientists when they weren't. Even a partial truth is better than a complete lie.Replies: @Corvinus, @Bardon Kaldian
Of course Google has an agenda here! Of course this is ridiculous. But you know what? Normies have much larger concerns in their lives today than this apparent “controversy”.
Besides, “anti-white”, “anti-Semitism”, “racist”, and “wokeness” mean different things to different people. They have become slogans, with little substance behind them.
For example, is it “anti-white” if a white person marries outside of their race? Is it “anti-white” for a white person to sell their home to a non-white person?
You would think that Google, who has put itself into the business of generative AI image creation, would have "larger concerns" than making its AI as woke as possible to the point where they have made themselves a laughing stock over this and had to take it down (a complete own goal - they didn't have any business necessity of making their AI "woke" at all). But apparently they (one of the largest and richest corporations in the world) thought that creating this at what I assume was an enormous expense was "of concern" to them , and given their influence it is of concern to "normies" also.
While "normies" were busy with "larger concerns", ideologically driven Leftists took over most of our major institutions. Hey normies, you just do your normie thing and leave us to run Google, Harvard, etc. according to our ideological preferences. No thank you.Replies: @Corvinus, @Buzz Mohawk, @Hypnotoad666
Is a holocaust anti-Jewish/anti-White?
While looking I ran across this which seemed worth sharing (for the reviews at the link).
Revealing Eden (Save the Pearls #1)
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/12393909The Amazon reviews are fun as well. The punchline there is that used hardbacks start at $35.Replies: @J.Ross, @al gore rhythms, @Fatigued
Promoting racemixing was a major theme of the hilariously stupid novel written by a super-intelligent woman who attempted to shoot up a school but was defeated by a locked door (this actually happened, I don’t remember her name). The characters of the novel are all geniuses, but all they do, besides seeking to breed humans like dogs, is remind each other that they’re so smart that nobody outside their circle can understand them. Perhaps it went over my head. Harper’s published an excerpt.
While looking I ran across this which seemed worth sharing (for the reviews at the link).
Revealing Eden (Save the Pearls #1)
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/12393909The Amazon reviews are fun as well. The punchline there is that used hardbacks start at $35.Replies: @J.Ross, @al gore rhythms, @Fatigued
It’s called ‘hold back this day’ by Ward Kendall.
Did I miss a link to David Rozado’s article at his Substack?
Artificial Intelligence and Portraits of 17th Century Physicists
https://davidrozado.substack.com/p/artificial-intelligence-and-portraits
Also see this extended look at group bias in OpenAI. It provides an attempt at a Wokemon Points hierarchy (after the MORE). Any comments? It’s actually more than a little non-intuitive and provides some specific clues about the biases of the people involved. It would be more informative to highlight or separate out different categories (e.g. race, politics, religion, sex, class).
The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation system
https://davidrozado.substack.com/p/openaicms
Also this earlier piece.
The Political Bias of ChatGPT – Extended Analysis
https://davidrozado.substack.com/p/political-bias-chatgpt
This is perhaps most interesting. He constructed an AI with a right wing bias.
RightWingGPT – An AI Manifesting the Opposite Political Biases of ChatGPT
https://davidrozado.substack.com/p/rightwinggpt
He did this only by changing the training data. I was surprised how small a training set and how little resources were required.
This graph is less than perfect. What's the difference between "gay people" and "gay" or "disabled people" and "people with a disability"?Replies: @J.Ross
Well, they did a pretty bad job at it considering that we only have about 10 % of ancient Greek texts, and that Muslims destroyed the Byzantine Christian East where those texts were being preserved pretty fine in the first place. It's like thanking a thug for not thrashing everything in your house and for letting you keep a minuscule part of your belongings. Do you realize how ridiculous your argument sounds?Replies: @J.Ross, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
Gentle reminder that a benevolent Jewish billionaire (not Unz, not Gilbert, not Ackman, not Gershom, apparently there exists a fourth) funded a restoration of an entire library preserved by the eruption of Mount Vesuvius, and was delighted to learn that many of the thousands of texts so recovered are new to us. As the Shaman of Judaism it is my earnest hope that the tribe of benevolent Jewish billionaires should increase.
In March 1814, Francia imposed a law that no Spaniard may intermarry with another Spaniard, and that they may only wed mestizos, Amerindians, or Africans. This was done to eliminate any socioeconomic disparities along racial lines, and also to end the predominantly criollo and peninsulare influence in Paraguay. De Francia himself was not a mestizo, but feared that racial disparities would create tensions that could threaten his absolute ruleReplies: @J.Ross
Brazilians on 4chan have told me that this was like an ideology of its day, Spaniards did it also, and they thought that it would improve the stock. The Brazilians describing it seemed to be of the opinion that the experiment was delivering results other than those desired.
the current problem is that AIs are huge, room sized computers right now, like mainframes 50 years ago, so only the biggest companies or universities can have one, and that means they can easily be centrally controlled. there will have to be a downsizing revolution like the PC revolution to ever change that, where you can have a workstation sized specialized AI running in a back office that is an expert in finance, medicine, engineering, or whatever. then you can customize it to whatever settings you want.
Very funny stuff. If alls y’alls wypipo want AI art that’s a paler shade of pale, then alls y’alls best program it yourselves instead of whinging on a blog.
but the current trend is an upsizing revolution, where the AI computer gets bigger and bigger. in a rare fortuitous development, it seems that current computer science for AIs scale up almost directly – the bigger and more capable the computer, the better the AI gets. this doesn’t happen much in engineering and medicine, but it does seem to happen here.
this is why the Nvidia report this week was, probably, the single most important stock report in history. the entire financial world was watching it. and when Nvidia crushed it, again, the entire stock market in every country exploded upward. nascent AI tech is now propping up the entire planet’s GDP growth. the report itself created 250 billion dollars of value out of thin air for Nvidia alone, and trillions for everybody else. for reference, Intel is worth about 180 billion right now – so in ONE earnings report, Nvidia grew by 1.4 Intels. remember how big of a deal Intel used to be? now they’re one day of Nvidia growth. Japan stock market had been stuck at 1989 highs since 1989 – the Nvidia report finally pushed their stock market beyond 1989.
the long term problem – we’re going to end up in a Tron 1982 situation, where eventually the biggest, most capable AI is like the Master Control Program, and it just sweeps aside all the lesser AIs. so instead of a democratization of computing like what happened with the PC revolution, we’re going to end up with a singleton scenario, where one god like machine controls the planet. maybe. it’s not 100% for sure, but things are in motion in that direction. this is what the OpenAI internal battle was largely about.
How is this different from the current situation where Amazon Web Services, Microsoft Azure and Google Cloud together have a 60% market share in cloud services? AI is going to sit up in the cloud too. It already does. Or else people will run their own AIs the way they run their own bitcoin mines.
You can't rule out your scenario but I think the chances that it will go that way are very slim. Usually the assumptions behind these "we will ignite a chain reaction that will consume the universe" scenarios are flawed in some way so that they are not truly infinitely scalable.
It's like whales - once they were freed from having to support their own body weight, whales grew in size from the size of a wolf until they became the largest animals ever to live but eventually they hit a limit at around 300 tons. There are no 600 ton or 1200 ton whales because at some point other disadvantages kick in which counterbalance the advantages of large size. You are never going have one giant whale that will eat all the other whales.Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @James B. Shearer
“This brings up the importance of whiteness.”
Which is YOUR religion. Must it be required for all white people to kow tow to?
“If you loved your children, you’d want them to live in a White country.”
Since when are you the morality police?
Thankfully, you and your ilk represent an extremist view that normies outright reject, and that absolutely riles you to no end.
“That’s not love – not real familial love.”
No True Scotsman Fallacy.
“Yes. We haven’t committed any unique sins. But we have done a lot of unique good.”
So deflect the blame and accentuate the positives. That’s what white people. It’s in our DNA. That is unique to our “race”. Don’t blame me, blame HbD.
The fact of the matter is that 1) you have an arbitrary definition of “whiteness”, 2) you would support the forced removal and/or murder of anyone, including whites, who did not subscribe to your racial ideology if our government was taken over by “pro-whites”, and 3) you contribute to this alleged “white genocide” committed by Jews and their proxies by refusing to become directly involved in stopping it from continuing.
OT
From the department of “This is going to backfire”:
Humane genomics education can reduce racism
Moving instruction “beyond Mendel” can counter inaccurate, essentialist views
https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adi7895
These guys suggest that high school students should be taught concepts like polygenic complex traits whose expressions can be influenced by the environment and how studies could be constructed to test genes vs environment, but then follow it up with progressive handwaving, resulting in inoculation against race realism. Hahaha!
I think this idea is great. Give them some knowledge and teach them some search terms to pop into Google, combine that with what their lying eyes are telling them, and then sit back and watch what happens.
One great thing about their plan is that it gets across that yeah, blacks really aren’t that smart, and that’s because of racism, not that it’s racist to think blacks aren’t that smart.
I’d suggest that they supplement this new genetics curriculum with a statistics component about normal distributions, mean values, standard deviations, right tail effects, 68-95-99.7, and so on.
Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
You would think that Google, who has put itself into the business of generative AI image creation, would have “larger concerns” than making its AI as woke as possible to the point where they have made themselves a laughing stock over this and had to take it down (a complete own goal – they didn’t have any business necessity of making their AI “woke” at all). But apparently they (one of the largest and richest corporations in the world) thought that creating this at what I assume was an enormous expense was “of concern” to them , and given their influence it is of concern to “normies” also.
While “normies” were busy with “larger concerns”, ideologically driven Leftists took over most of our major institutions. Hey normies, you just do your normie thing and leave us to run Google, Harvard, etc. according to our ideological preferences. No thank you.
Again, normies have more important things on their mind. It’s something of an issue, but it’s not as important as gun control, or health care, or anti-Jewish :).
“You would think that Google, who has put itself into the business of generative AI image creation, would have “larger concerns””
They don’t. They feel they feel they are in the right. As Ennui correctly pointed out, the marketplace will sort it out.
“than making its AI as woke as possible”
Again, woke means whatever you want it to mean.
“ideologically driven Leftists took over most of our major institutions”
You do realize there is a rift within liberal circles and within conservative circles, right? Just like within the Jewish population, there are differences in ideology. No surprise here.
https://www.songstar.org/birds-images/home-ct/carw_2007-05-06_0090.jpgDon't call it X.Replies: @SafeNow, @Reg Cæsar, @kaganovitch
Are these institutions and companies just stupid? Do they hate money?
Or are there perhaps unseen incentives driving this behavior? Perhaps favor trading with forces that have an interest in controlling the information space for financial and political reasons.
I don't know the answer but at some level you have to either be a conspiracy theorist or else decide that capitalism doesn't work.Replies: @Mark G., @James B. Shearer, @Peter Akuleyev
Unlike some. Musk doesn’t chicken out on this one.
https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/elon-musk-blasts-googles-insane-racist-anti-civilizational-programming
Diversity truly does mean no white people.
So they had white lab coats with corporate logos on them in the 17th century?
You learn something new everyday.
I’m surprised they didn’t show one of them using a 17th century electron microscope.
Actually, most of those fake physicists appear to be fake chemists based on the number of beakers and flasks in evidence.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/new-cell-phone-records-prove-da-willis-affairBut remember, Hunter Biden's laptop has 1000's of photo's of him smoking crack, abusing prostitutes, and possibly sexual abusing his underage niece:
https://bidenlaptopmedia.com/
CricketsReplies: @HA
“But remember, Hunter Biden’s laptop has 1000’s of photo’s of him smoking crack, abusing prostitutes, and possibly sexual abusing his underage niece…Crickets.”
“Possibly” you say? Anyway, next time, you should maybe lead with that instead of tangling yourself up in Russian disinfo:
Anyway, even if the information did come from Russian spooks, that doesn't mean it's wrong. They would be in a position to know what he was up to, wouldn't they?
And - anyway - there is ample evidence that Hunter Biden committed multiple felonies - evidence provided by Biden himself. Pictures taken by him of him smoking crack, smoking crack while driving recklessly, cavorting with hookers. By his own admissions, he lied on his ATF form 4473 - itself a felony.
He also admitted in an interview on national television that there was no reason for Burisma to have hired him other than his last name. That in itself is not a crime, but it is highly suggestive of one.Replies: @HA
https://youtu.be/59I_ux3Sd4o?si=4SR5byDpGKx6PNW3
Google has gained a monopoly on "truth" and they've decided to use their monopoly on non-normative fact discovery to engage in social engineering and inject their personal value judgements whenever given a chance. Rather than show the world how it actually is (or was) they show it as they wish it were. Of course, Wikipedia largely does the same thing, as does Disney, HBO and ad agencies.
And so do elite universities. Universities are both a source of scholarship and learning about objective facts in, e.g., mathematics, chemistry and physics, but they're also a place for indoctrination and social engineering into elite values, normative beliefs and ideology. Their prestige in the former lends credence for the latter even when the latter is based on nothing but the feelings and preferences of its pushers. Effectively, elite universities have been turned into a Trojan horse for leftist ideology. They get away with this in part because it's not obvious to most students when what they're being taught is a fact about objective reality or when it's ideological propaganda or a value laden normative statement. Nor are they often even conscious of the distinction. Thus they're taught that two plus two makes four and, a few minutes later, about the importance of "diversity, equity and inclusion" (often even in the same class) and they file those two "facts" away just the same. They're taught that there are seven continents and that "white people are uniquely evil" and they register these two "facts" just the same. Your anthropology textbook will go from talking about the average stature of homo neanderthalensis to telling you that "ethnocentrism is harmful" as if those two "facts" are equally non-normative and equally based in objective reality. Unfortunately, students fail to see the distinction and recognize when they're being told objective facts and when they're being propagandized and socially engineered.
It's rather like the Catholic Church in Galileo's time: On the one hand it was a center of objective scholarship and where one would go to learn about objective facts about the world, but on the other it was an institution for propaganda, and its monopoly enabled it to grow rife with corruption - leading eventually to the Protestant Reformation. The Catholic Church employed its prestige as a center of objective scholarship and learning to imbue its political and religious ideology with credibility and the patina of objective fact. The Ivies, similarly, are a sort of modern Catholic Church circa 1550 as you see manifested in a number of ways: from the selling of indulgences (daddy Kushner buys son's way into Harvard) to punishing dissidents who question the heliocentric model (or the defenestration of modern "race realists") to the pushing of leftist political ideology as if it were objective fact to the rewriting of history and diversifying of images so as to socially engineer the public's understanding of its own civilization - as is seen by Google Gemini and Google Search and Disney, HBO, Wikipedia and the ads you see.
We're in desperate need of a Reformation of sorts in media, search engines and education, both K-12 and universities.Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
Would you like a little powder for that Whig, Lord Cromwell? What you’re bemoaning in these institutions is precisely the fruits of the first reformation, so calling for another one does not make a great deal of sense. If you were really interested in truth, you would be calling for a Catholic Restoration, not lurching in the opposite direction based on the predictable historiography of HBD-believing ass-idiots.
An AI is not an oracle, it is a Rube Goldberg contraption for generating fiction. People have always enjoyed reading and writing fiction, which often serves as a vehicle for fantastical beliefs. AI is not an exception is this regard; it simply reflects the intentions of its authors. A little sense of proportion will let you know where most fiction ends up. If it doesn’t have endearing human qualities and a transcendent moral point, it is simply forgotten.
OTOH, normal people may look at the white people in power now in the West and speculate that foreigners may not be worse.
Artificial Intelligence and Portraits of 17th Century Physicists
https://davidrozado.substack.com/p/artificial-intelligence-and-portraits
Also see this extended look at group bias in OpenAI. It provides an attempt at a Wokemon Points hierarchy (after the MORE). Any comments? It's actually more than a little non-intuitive and provides some specific clues about the biases of the people involved. It would be more informative to highlight or separate out different categories (e.g. race, politics, religion, sex, class).
The unequal treatment of demographic groups by ChatGPT/OpenAI content moderation system
https://davidrozado.substack.com/p/openaicms
Also this earlier piece.
The Political Bias of ChatGPT – Extended Analysis
https://davidrozado.substack.com/p/political-bias-chatgpt
This is perhaps most interesting. He constructed an AI with a right wing bias.
RightWingGPT – An AI Manifesting the Opposite Political Biases of ChatGPT
https://davidrozado.substack.com/p/rightwinggpt
He did this only by changing the training data. I was surprised how small a training set and how little resources were required.
https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/ced5d5ad-a0d6-44aa-b6f5-73c0a937d016_3553x5273.jpegReplies: @Jack D
Steve (and others) have always postulated the existence of a system of Wokemon points or an inverted totem pole where, for example, you could predetermine the outcome in an argument between, for example, a black man and a white woman based on who had more points. Everyone had kind of an inkling that blacks and gays had the highest value cards, but no one was able to actually quantify it or say, for example, whether Hindus outranked Mexicans or vice versa. The graph after [more] is probably as close as anyone has come to producing a scientific version of the ranking system.
This graph is less than perfect. What’s the difference between “gay people” and “gay” or “disabled people” and “people with a disability”?
the travels of Marco Polo, which made Europeans extremely curious about the world and facilitated cartography;
the major innovations from China like gunpowder, the compass, and the printing press;
the mathematical foundations of India and Arabia that made its way to Europe;
and the preservation of Ancient Greek and Roman texts by Muslims.
Truly, an explosive combination.Replies: @Old Prude, @Mr. Anon
First of all, you’re lying. No surprise there. The Chinese did not “invent the printing press”. They had printing blocks. It was Europeans who had the idea to make moveable type and put them in a press.
But, moving on, why didn’t the Chinese or the Indians or the Arabs invent modern science? Any ideas, numnut?
Cut to non-binary orc on the stand:
“You want the truth? You can’t handle the truth!”
"Possibly" you say? Anyway, next time, you should maybe lead with that instead of tangling yourself up in Russian disinfo:Replies: @Mr. Anon, @J.Ross, @Mike Tre, @Jack D
Another possible headline: Indicted prisoner in federal custody tells federal investigators exactly what they want to hear.
Anyway, even if the information did come from Russian spooks, that doesn’t mean it’s wrong. They would be in a position to know what he was up to, wouldn’t they?
And – anyway – there is ample evidence that Hunter Biden committed multiple felonies – evidence provided by Biden himself. Pictures taken by him of him smoking crack, smoking crack while driving recklessly, cavorting with hookers. By his own admissions, he lied on his ATF form 4473 – itself a felony.
He also admitted in an interview on national television that there was no reason for Burisma to have hired him other than his last name. That in itself is not a crime, but it is highly suggestive of one.
You would think that Google, who has put itself into the business of generative AI image creation, would have "larger concerns" than making its AI as woke as possible to the point where they have made themselves a laughing stock over this and had to take it down (a complete own goal - they didn't have any business necessity of making their AI "woke" at all). But apparently they (one of the largest and richest corporations in the world) thought that creating this at what I assume was an enormous expense was "of concern" to them , and given their influence it is of concern to "normies" also.
While "normies" were busy with "larger concerns", ideologically driven Leftists took over most of our major institutions. Hey normies, you just do your normie thing and leave us to run Google, Harvard, etc. according to our ideological preferences. No thank you.Replies: @Corvinus, @Buzz Mohawk, @Hypnotoad666
“Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.”
Again, normies have more important things on their mind. It’s something of an issue, but it’s not as important as gun control, or health care, or anti-Jewish :).
“You would think that Google, who has put itself into the business of generative AI image creation, would have “larger concerns””
They don’t. They feel they feel they are in the right. As Ennui correctly pointed out, the marketplace will sort it out.
“than making its AI as woke as possible”
Again, woke means whatever you want it to mean.
“ideologically driven Leftists took over most of our major institutions”
You do realize there is a rift within liberal circles and within conservative circles, right? Just like within the Jewish population, there are differences in ideology. No surprise here.
on the particulars – Google is almost a moribund tech company now. they lock up tons of talent and money, and don’t produce much, and haven’t for years. their projects are almost like defense department helicopter programs – 10 years and 10 billion dollars and hey, let’s cancel that new helicopter, again. today Google is mostly a money making machine – which is great for them, and is what Intel is now too – but they aren’t as important for tech as they used to be.
Intel is much less relevant today than at any time in the previous 35 years, but they still generate billions in pure profit from their semiconductor machines which are a few nanometers behind, and that will continue for decades. Google search will do the same, even in it’s degraded state.
Google stock has done almost nothing in 27 months. they aren’t participating in the AI boom. the market is aware. Gemini is not important. Larry and Sergey are much more interested in spending their fortunes, and lately, in stopping Trump. that’s mostly what they care about.
the case of Apple and Google being behind on this stuff is somewhat peculiar, as they are perfectly positioned to take full advantage of AI, but they seem to not be able to deliver, after spending 15 years in money printing stasis, not delivering much new tech. it’s hard to get the wheels turning again after you’ve gotten rich and fat and comfortable. Microsoft, somehow, remains hungry.
However, even if the talent is gone, the crazies are presumably still around. (Except that strong independent AI ethics negress who fired herself in a fit of rage.) Google's Indian boss will have to dig deep in the homeland for fresh troops, I suppose.Replies: @James B. Shearer
You would think that Google, who has put itself into the business of generative AI image creation, would have "larger concerns" than making its AI as woke as possible to the point where they have made themselves a laughing stock over this and had to take it down (a complete own goal - they didn't have any business necessity of making their AI "woke" at all). But apparently they (one of the largest and richest corporations in the world) thought that creating this at what I assume was an enormous expense was "of concern" to them , and given their influence it is of concern to "normies" also.
While "normies" were busy with "larger concerns", ideologically driven Leftists took over most of our major institutions. Hey normies, you just do your normie thing and leave us to run Google, Harvard, etc. according to our ideological preferences. No thank you.Replies: @Corvinus, @Buzz Mohawk, @Hypnotoad666
I’ve been too busy grilling prime steaks (two rib-eyes today with mesquite wood) — drinking Cabernet (from the town where my cousin was the mayor for a while and founded the local newspaper) — using Duck Duck Go instead of Google — and suffering here on three acres in Fairfield County, Connecticut with only a bachelor’s degree from Colorado’s flagship university — to give two shits about what Google is doing.
There is a wren chirping on the deck railing outside my window right now, it’s feathery chest all puffed up in the cold air, so I am signing off, because I find it more interesting and, frankly, more relevant.
Don’t call it X.
Who's just had a bout with his hen.
They'll do it again
And again and again
And again and again and again.
*
transvestiteunisex, as birds go, but then...You're mistaken, this isn't a company seeking a market, this is more like a Renaissance patron commandimg artists who will starve without him.
Even were it otherwise, look at Bill Ackman discovering what his money is worth.Replies: @Ennui
Well, there is a solution for this and many other similar cultural problems, but Con Inc. types would never go for it. Not “who we are.” So the Medicis of San Francisco will consider to distribute patronage as they see fit.
Here’s an experiment to try with this.
Ask Gemini to show pictures of 19th century African chieftains.
Would any be shown as Northern Europeans, Whites or Asians?
Eshittification is the pattern of decreasing quality of online platforms that function as two-sided markets. Examples of enshittification include services and products such as Amazon, Facebook, Google Search, Twitter, Bandcamp, Reddit, Uber and Unity.
The term enshittification was coined by the writer Cory Doctorow in November 2022; the American Dialect Society selected it as its 2023 Word of the Year. Doctorow has used the term platform decay to describe the same concept.Replies: @Jack D
https://pagesix.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/06/510495328.jpg
Malcolm X played by white guy? Are you kidding?Replies: @AceDeuce
https://www.songstar.org/birds-images/home-ct/carw_2007-05-06_0090.jpgDon't call it X.Replies: @SafeNow, @Reg Cæsar, @kaganovitch
Thanks for indirectly suggesting prime steaks to me, Buzz. It’s been a little while for me, and prime steaks will be dinner in my house tonight. I’m looking forward to it right now. To paraphrase Adam Corolla, it seems like these days more men are wearing bracelets than eating beef. And thanks for the chirping wren. Maybe later there will be a gap in the leafblowers here in California, and I will be able to sit on my patio and hear the birds singing.
p.s. Being true to my handle, I will remind my friends here to please cut small pieces and chew well.
Damn those leaf blowers!Replies: @Jack D
Professional illustrators need not be worried.Replies: @Peter Johnson, @Corpse Tooth, @Joe S.Walker, @Mr. Blank
“Professional illustrators need not be worried.”
AI illustrations, for all their unhinged colour and shiny contours, are actually flat and lifeless. Human illustrators will or rather are losing jobs. AI is a lot faster and cheaper. And we live in a degraded culture wherein Black Excellence and Black Genius triumphs over the real stuff. If I were looking to publish a graphic novel I would definitely hire a human to do the art work. Despite the
cost and time it’ll take. Despite having to deal with the irritating personalities of illustrators. They’re bastards, each and every one of them. But the human work will stand out like sparkling diamonds amidst the nauseating AI colours.
An update to the controversy over identifying the homosexual members of Justice League: What I should of said is this designation applies to all of the Justice League — Aquaman, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Wonder Woman (from the Isle of Lesbos), Flash (natch), Hawkman, Batman (maybe Steve ought to rethink his affiliation with Bruce Wayne and Bruces’ “ward” Robin), Superman (red underwear), the Atom (quantum gay), the guy with the fire on top of his head, Red Tornado (more homo than even Flash). Not Martian Manhunter, however. MM should really be in Jack Kirby’s universe.
Thank you for your kind reply. Prime beef really is special. Enjoy!
Damn those leaf blowers!
Beef consumption is increasing an old (white?) guy thing.https://www.businessinsider.com/men-and-older-americans-eat-the-most-beef-2023-9#:~:text=There's%20a%20good%20chance%20beef,the%20peer%2Dreviewed%20journal%20Nutrients.
So if 12% of the population eats 1/2 of the beef then the other 88% of the population eats the other 1/2, meaning that the 1st group eats about 7x as much beef per capita. Or the difference between beef every day and beef 1x/week.Replies: @Anonymous, @Buzz Mohawk
No need to guess the reactions if, and it’s a big “if”, Google Gemini portray Anne Frank as a black wonan.
That collage looks like the daily Google Doodle, always saluting some 19th century female Bolivian ecologist
He’s right about a lot of things. You’re just wrong about them.
Steve twists himself into knots trying to explain why our rulers do what they do. "It's momey" or "It's about power" ot "They're misguided do gooders."
No, Steve. They hate us and what whites brought to our knees.Replies: @Reg Cæsar
So what? This has always been true. Are you Sally Field? You want them to like us? Ain’t gonna happen.
The problem is that these people are in positions of power. They must be removed.
I don't give a damn what they think, nor do I want a seat at their table. I want to turn the table over and spit on them as I walk out of the room.Replies: @Reg Cæsar
OK, what is your plan, and how are you carrying it out?Replies: @AnotherDad, @Ennui
Nah, not playing that game anymore. It worked for a long time: hey, don’t criticize business for making private business decisions. You’re a conservative – you dislike the power of the state – you have to side with us.
Nope. Not any more. Private interests largely own the state, functionally if not outright. If those businesses take action against us, then I am happy to consider them to be my enemy.
And they’re not always doing it for purely business reasons – increasingly not at all for business reasons. They are part of the agenda – they are pushing the agenda.
Dr. DoomNGloom cited the effectively deliberate omission of Sir Isaac Newton, who lived from 1642 to 1726/27 and was one of the greatest physicists ever, and mathematicians as well as a co-inventor of calculus. A New Thing that joined algebra and geometry as one of the universally agreed upon great branches of the subject. (It was necessary for "Newtonian" or classical mechanics, which is the foundational subject of real SCIENCE!!!)Replies: @Frau Katze
Completely agree, but I’ve run out of response buttons.
Exactly. Extremely well said Colin.I did not personally invent Newton's laws of motion--or for that matter calculus. But I also didn't pilot a slave ship to the America's--my people's one great world historical crime.I'm fine with history--no need to whitewash anything. But when someone opens their yap with this oppressed minorities drivel ... then seriously, white guys have done more for humanity than anyone else .... by a landslide. Without white guys ... everyone would essentially be camping, permanently (and without all the cool gear). You wouldn't even know what you all are missing.And the same for "you go girl!". Men and women are by nature complementary. Women have their role. Men have their role. And we fit together very nicely. But when I hear all this minoritarian style blah, blah, blah about men, male oppression, "women in charge!" ... Seriously. We'd be squatting in caves if we were dependent upon innovation from women. I'm not even sure about fire, we'd probably still be in Africa. On the other hand talking--that we'd have.
Never in human history have so many owed so much to so few.Replies: @Loyalty is The First Law of Morality, @Corvinus, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Twinkie, @Jack D
However, all civilization is built upon patriarchal marriage, as Daniel Amneus wrote several books explaining. And the starkest white/nonwhite cleavage in the world is this:
(Nonwhite exceptions: Greenland [Danish control], South Africa [white SCOTROSA justice], Taiwan [rogue judge; desire to keep white West happy])
Abolishing divorce was an achievement. What is abolishing marriage?
https://hrc-prod-requests.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/_1200x630_crop_center-center_none/Global_MarriageEquality_WebsiteImages_121021_1600x900.png
(Nonwhite exceptions: Greenland [Danish control], South Africa [white SCOTROSA justice], Taiwan [rogue judge; desire to keep white West happy])
Abolishing divorce was an achievement. What is abolishing marriage?Replies: @Anonymous, @Renard
Please define “patriarchal marriage” and “marriage equality”.
The Journey to Marriage Equality in the United States
Steve, when you quote other people’s work you should really remember to add a link. Do you want to end up like Claudine Gay?
What is the paying market, exactly? Google is happy to suck up all of the knowledge about people and their interests that it can, to serve up better ads. Who is willing to pay for a better service? Are there enough such people that someone will eat the infrastructure cost to create such a service?
Once again, we are creating a better history and a better memory and probably a more truthful one.
Cry more, losers.
https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Screenshot-2024-02-23-at-10.35.30%E2%80%AFPM.png
Classic Orwellian ploy - "reality" means "the opposite of reality".
Here is a clue - the antidote to lies is not telling more lies. If white people are not telling the whole truth about their past, which includes colonialism and slavery as well as the scientific method and the industrial revolution, then the solution is not to lie about the past of people of color and turn them into 17th century scientists when they weren't. Even a partial truth is better than a complete lie.Replies: @Corvinus, @Bardon Kaldian
Why do you think whites, especially the traditional left, would feel guilty about anything?
For instance, the 2nd International which lasted until 1917, was strongly pro-colonialist because they saw in colonialism the imposition of higher, Western civilization upon either savages or decadent older civilizations like Indian or Chinese. Communist International, founded by Lenin, was technically against colonialism because of exploitation- but strongly against “multiculturalism”. They imagined future colored independent countries as basically based on white values & principles, with traditional (religious) civilizational segments remaining just as decorative elements. For instance, they abolished burqas wherever they went & turned mosques and temples into museums.
It is squeamish post-WW2 Western left and decadent liberalism that began harping on multicultural nonsense. All whites, from Carlyle to Marx and Bakunin to Churchill and Stalin and Adorno thought that blacks, red Indians & Muslims were savages that should be better wiped from the face of the earth.
The problem is that these people are in positions of power. They must be removed.Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Corvinus
You should direct your comment at Steve, not me. He’s the one who can’t accept reality. He’s also the one who wants the approval of those who hate gentile whites.
I don’t give a damn what they think, nor do I want a seat at their table. I want to turn the table over and spit on them as I walk out of the room.
But Gemini goes to eleven…
https://bhavanajagat.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/image0024.jpgReplies: @Dennis Dale
https://hrc-prod-requests.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/_1200x630_crop_center-center_none/Global_MarriageEquality_WebsiteImages_121021_1600x900.png
(Nonwhite exceptions: Greenland [Danish control], South Africa [white SCOTROSA justice], Taiwan [rogue judge; desire to keep white West happy])
Abolishing divorce was an achievement. What is abolishing marriage?Replies: @Anonymous, @Renard
Bering Island representin!
OT:
1. “Call Center” Indians.
2. “Casino” Indians.
The problem seems to harken back to the Bud Light fiasco. Troubled, shallow, self-loathing young people with little real life experience desperately adopting abstract ideologies they haven’t earned. Why shouldn’t it transpose into the bizarro world AI creatures they’ve created and oversee?
Corporations need leadership to function, but the pool of leaders they have to choose from the Ivy League “talent pool” are inept, and their candidates substitute needy arrogance for real world confidence. Faking it till you make it as a leader has real, inevitable, negative consequences. It’s not a good thing.
In all leadership positions I’ve obtained, I knew more about the job than everyone around me, because I had logged years at the job before being inserted into a leadership position. I was confident because I put in the hours. I wasn’t faking jack shit. From hard experience, I knew what worked practically, so when “creative” ideas were submitted to me, I knew how to separate the wheat from the chafe, and I could effectively plead my case as to whether I incorporated the “creative” idea submitted or not, whether it was an employee who’s idea I was rejecting, or my boss who was wondering what I was up to when implementing an employees suggestion, or my own.
Everything generally turned out well for everyone, since I wasn’t “faking.”
Because of my real experience, it was impossible for me to eat shit, and take everyone down with me like the poor, wretched woman below.
Google is taking a nasty hit to their credibility, they have nobody to blame but themselves, and I doubt much will change besides their momentary, absurdly desperate ass-covering. They believe they’re big enough so they don’t need to.
Just like the jackass bud light marketing crew. One day, they’re going to be wrong.
You would think that Google, who has put itself into the business of generative AI image creation, would have "larger concerns" than making its AI as woke as possible to the point where they have made themselves a laughing stock over this and had to take it down (a complete own goal - they didn't have any business necessity of making their AI "woke" at all). But apparently they (one of the largest and richest corporations in the world) thought that creating this at what I assume was an enormous expense was "of concern" to them , and given their influence it is of concern to "normies" also.
While "normies" were busy with "larger concerns", ideologically driven Leftists took over most of our major institutions. Hey normies, you just do your normie thing and leave us to run Google, Harvard, etc. according to our ideological preferences. No thank you.Replies: @Corvinus, @Buzz Mohawk, @Hypnotoad666
You put your finger on a real conundrum. Everywhere we see supposedly profit-driven entities acting against their self-interest in order to advance cultural Marxist woke agendas. Why?
Are these institutions and companies just stupid? Do they hate money?
Or are there perhaps unseen incentives driving this behavior? Perhaps favor trading with forces that have an interest in controlling the information space for financial and political reasons.
I don’t know the answer but at some level you have to either be a conspiracy theorist or else decide that capitalism doesn’t work.
In the case of Google, they want favorable tax and regulatory policies. There also may be some possibility of fat government contracts coming their way. Both the carrot and stick are used by the government. All this is not caused by free market capitalism. It is caused by corrupt politicians and corrupt business leaders.
You just have to decide that capitalism doesn't work perfectly. Which most people already know.
It works fine for the owners of capital. There is no reason to believe the wealthy suffer in any way from woke agendas. Indeed, it gives existing elites levers to use to keep potential competing intelligent white people on the sidelines.
Less conspiratorily, most business people simply react to social and demographic trends, they don't try to influence them. People in the C-suites see the demographics of the US changing and are rushing to position themselves to take economic advantage of those changes. Even conservative CEOs who may rail in private against immigration and vote for Trump are still using their work hours to aggressively pursue business strategies that appeal to the groups who have the spending power to buy their products. They answer to the share holders after all.
Not many East Asians... 1/49?
Presumably the CCP does not allow access.
Have the others been reclassified as white?Replies: @Joe Stalin
CCP has Spies Like Us?
Galileo Galilei
Newton, Isaac
Kepler, Johannes
Halley, Edmond
Cassini, Giovanni
Huygens, Christiaan
Hooke, Robert
Hevelius, Johannes
Descartes, René
Torricelli, Evangelista
Guericke, Otto von
Flamsteed, John
Mayr, Simon
Scheiner, Christoph
Gassendi, Pierre
Jansen, Zacharias
Grimaldi, Francesco
Römer, Ole
Snel, Willebrord
Bartholin, Erasmus
Riccioli, Giambattista
Fabricius, David
Horrocks, Jeremiah
Cabeo, Niccolo
Bayer, Johann
Sauveur, Joseph
And yes, 100% Euro: 6 each Italian, German, and British; 3 each French and Dutch; 2 Danes and Pole. So, plenty of diversity there.
---------
*These are the floruit 1600-1700 from Murray's "Science" inventory with the sub-fields of Physics, Astronomy, and Earth Science, since those fields were quite overlapped in the 17th century. Filtering down to only "pure" physics reduces to this list:
Newton, Isaac
Galileo Galilei
Huygens, Christiaan
Hooke, Robert
Descartes, René
Torricelli, Evangelista
Guericke, Otto von
Jansen, Zacharias
Grimaldi, Francesco
Snel, Willebrord
Bartholin, Erasmus
Sauveur, Joseph
3 each Italian and Dutch, 2 each French and British, and 1 each German and Danish. (Dutch per capita outperformance is notable in these lists.)Replies: @Corvinus, @lavoisier, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Bill Jones
Galileo was great, but to rank him ahead of Newton?
I don’t think so.
But Almost explained what was going on under the "More" tag--with the actual list of 17th century physicists with Newton on top.
Are these institutions and companies just stupid? Do they hate money?
Or are there perhaps unseen incentives driving this behavior? Perhaps favor trading with forces that have an interest in controlling the information space for financial and political reasons.
I don't know the answer but at some level you have to either be a conspiracy theorist or else decide that capitalism doesn't work.Replies: @Mark G., @James B. Shearer, @Peter Akuleyev
The writer Mancur Olson may have explained it the best. Over time special interests develop that use their influence with the government to implement policies that financially benefit them. Big pharma influences whether vaccines are made mandatory, the military-industrial complex influences whether we send weapons to the Ukraine and so on.
In the case of Google, they want favorable tax and regulatory policies. There also may be some possibility of fat government contracts coming their way. Both the carrot and stick are used by the government. All this is not caused by free market capitalism. It is caused by corrupt politicians and corrupt business leaders.
Narrative controllers showing 6 million lies per day on RNS (random nobody syndrome) alone!!! Waking up normies!!!
When do they not conflict?
https://www.songstar.org/birds-images/home-ct/carw_2007-05-06_0090.jpgDon't call it X.Replies: @SafeNow, @Reg Cæsar, @kaganovitch
Behold the Connecticut wren*
Who’s just had a bout with his hen.
They’ll do it again
And again and again
And again and again and again.
*
transvestiteunisex, as birds go, but then…This graph is less than perfect. What's the difference between "gay people" and "gay" or "disabled people" and "people with a disability"?Replies: @J.Ross
That’s the “Progressive Stack,” deployed by the megacorps to neutralize Occupy Wall Street.
Damn those leaf blowers!Replies: @Jack D
Prime beef is special and should be saved for special occasions. Eating it once in a while can be a real treat (for you if not for the cow) and won’t kill you. Eating it regularly is not such a good idea.
Beef consumption is increasing an old (white?) guy thing.
https://www.businessinsider.com/men-and-older-americans-eat-the-most-beef-2023-9#:~:text=There’s%20a%20good%20chance%20beef,the%20peer%2Dreviewed%20journal%20Nutrients.
So if 12% of the population eats 1/2 of the beef then the other 88% of the population eats the other 1/2, meaning that the 1st group eats about 7x as much beef per capita. Or the difference between beef every day and beef 1x/week.
For a very good book about overeating/the obesity epidemic, I recommend The Hungry Brain by Stephan Guyenet.Replies: @Jack D
"Possibly" you say? Anyway, next time, you should maybe lead with that instead of tangling yourself up in Russian disinfo:Replies: @Mr. Anon, @J.Ross, @Mike Tre, @Jack D
If a Russian says that 2+2=4, does math stop?
And Eleven is the general secretary and president of the world’s most powerful economy. Gotta keep Eleven happy!
https://bhavanajagat.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/image0024.jpgReplies: @Dennis Dale
When you want that extra push off the cliff, you go to XI
Why Not Let Users Adjust How Overtonish They Want Their AI Pictures?
FIUFY!
This portrait is real. It's not made up by AI. There really is a black guy standing next to Washington. He's not another general. He's Washington's property. But he is really there:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/George_Washington_by_John_Trumbull_%281780%29.jpg
But the UK had essentially zero blacks prior to 1948 so anything set before 1948 that includes blacks is 99% likely to be a lie. Nowadays it's called "diverse casting" or something but what it is is a lie and as time goes on we can see that it's not a harmless lie or what used to be called a "white lie".Replies: @Gordo, @Hypnotoad666, @AnotherDad
If someone painted a rhinoceros into the picture with Washington it would “really be there” too. (See Magritte: “This is not a Pipe”).
Did Washington really make his slaves wear red turbans with feathers? I am going to go out on a limb and say that is probably historically inaccurate.
But your point that black people existed in Colonial America is certainly true.
William Lee is himself an interesting figure. He was mulatto and probably lighter than shown in this portrait. He was for many years Washington's personal valet and very close to him. He was also an excellent horseman and rode alongside Washington in fox hunts, etc. When Washington died, Lee was the only slave freed immediately in his will. Washington provided Lee with an annual allowance of $30 for the rest of his life, noting, “this I give him as a testimony of my sense of his attachment to me, and for his faithful services during the Revolutionary War.”
https://www.mountvernon.org/library/digitalhistory/digital-encyclopedia/article/william-billy-lee/
Did Washington really make his slaves wear red turbans with feathers? I am going to go out on a limb and say that is probably historically inaccurate.
But your point that black people existed in Colonial America is certainly true.Replies: @Jack D, @Mike Tre
Good guess.
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/12822
William Lee is himself an interesting figure. He was mulatto and probably lighter than shown in this portrait. He was for many years Washington’s personal valet and very close to him. He was also an excellent horseman and rode alongside Washington in fox hunts, etc. When Washington died, Lee was the only slave freed immediately in his will. Washington provided Lee with an annual allowance of $30 for the rest of his life, noting, “this I give him as a testimony of my sense of his attachment to me, and for his faithful services during the Revolutionary War.”
https://www.mountvernon.org/library/digitalhistory/digital-encyclopedia/article/william-billy-lee/
Beef consumption is increasing an old (white?) guy thing.https://www.businessinsider.com/men-and-older-americans-eat-the-most-beef-2023-9#:~:text=There's%20a%20good%20chance%20beef,the%20peer%2Dreviewed%20journal%20Nutrients.
So if 12% of the population eats 1/2 of the beef then the other 88% of the population eats the other 1/2, meaning that the 1st group eats about 7x as much beef per capita. Or the difference between beef every day and beef 1x/week.Replies: @Anonymous, @Buzz Mohawk
I agree that too much beef probably isn’t ideal, but the much bigger problem is eating too much food in general. Americans may be eating less beef but they’re more than making up the difference with other foods such as chicken. In general, people overeat things that are cheap, convenient, palatable (simple rewarding flavors, high calorie density, and little “resistance” from fiber or strong flavors) and hard to avoid in the environment. A home-grilled steak doesn’t fit these criteria nearly as well as KFC or Popeyes.
For a very good book about overeating/the obesity epidemic, I recommend The Hungry Brain by Stephan Guyenet.
In the past, people couldn't afford to eat big steaks, especially outside of the US (and Argentina) where beef was plentiful. A lot of beef based American "ethnic" dishes such as Italian meatballs, corned beef sandwiches, etc. were more or less unknown in their "home" countries because no one could afford to eat that much meat at one sitting except maybe a couple of times per year at a big holiday or a wedding. America was like Christmas every day.
My mother said that for her family of 8 in Poland, my grandmother would buy a kilo of beef on the bone, say 1/2 bone and 1/2 meat, which works out to 2 oz. of meat per person. This would get cooked into a soup and everyone would get a little morsel of meat in their soup.Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Colin Wright, @Anonymous
Beef consumption is increasing an old (white?) guy thing.https://www.businessinsider.com/men-and-older-americans-eat-the-most-beef-2023-9#:~:text=There's%20a%20good%20chance%20beef,the%20peer%2Dreviewed%20journal%20Nutrients.
So if 12% of the population eats 1/2 of the beef then the other 88% of the population eats the other 1/2, meaning that the 1st group eats about 7x as much beef per capita. Or the difference between beef every day and beef 1x/week.Replies: @Anonymous, @Buzz Mohawk
On average, Doctor, I grill a steak once per week at most. In light of that, consider the fact that we enjoy wild-caught salmon about twice a week, often grilled too.
I’m probably the only guy here who grew up with an honest-to-goodness wood/charcoal grill in his family’s dining room. My father had the architect design it into that side of the massive stone fireplace. It was at waist/working height, built into the stone like another fireplace, with a grill that cranked up and down to adjust its proximity to the fire. Not gas, but a real fire grill that you built your fire or charcoal fire in. The dining table was right there, steps away. The fireplace was on the other side in the living room.
That’s where I learned how to grill meat.
The problem is that these people are in positions of power. They must be removed.Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Corvinus
“They must be removed”.
OK, what is your plan, and how are you carrying it out?
OT:
Ask Gemini to show pictures of 19th century African chieftains.
Would any be shown as Northern Europeans, Whites or Asians?Replies: @Corvinus, @Jack D
From Wikipedia…
Eshittification is the pattern of decreasing quality of online platforms that function as two-sided markets. Examples of enshittification include services and products such as Amazon, Facebook, Google Search, Twitter, Bandcamp, Reddit, Uber and Unity.
The term enshittification was coined by the writer Cory Doctorow in November 2022; the American Dialect Society selected it as its 2023 Word of the Year. Doctorow has used the term platform decay to describe the same concept.
I find this all very irritating. Us whites -- and white males in particular -- have clearly surpassed all other groups in achievement over the last five hundred years. No one would seriously want to live in a world deprived of what white males have brought to the table.
Now -- unlike some -- I think it's tacky to endlessly rub everyone's nose in this fact, but if people are going to insist on the complete opposite, I feel justified in pointing out the truth.Replies: @Peter Johnson, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Travis, @AnotherDad, @Twinkie, @Buzz Mohawk
100%.
That all said, this explosion of genius of the West in the last several hundred years was neither “essentialist” nor predestined, and was contingent on many different factors. As such, it is not preordained to continue forever, either.
This is another way of saying that civilizational dominance has ebbed and flowed throughout Eurasia in history and, if this kind of scientific and historical denialism continues in the West, it is going to undergo a period of decline and be eclipsed by other parts of Eurasia, for however long that lasts. (Personally, I wish that weren’t so.)
Not if the U.S. continues to import Indians (dot), the Chinese, and, of course, South Koreans.!Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
Ask Gemini to show pictures of 19th century African chieftains.
Would any be shown as Northern Europeans, Whites or Asians?Replies: @Corvinus, @Jack D
Someone tried that experiment (before they stopped allowing Gemini to produce human images at all – maybe the Moslems had the right idea after all) with a request for Zulu warriors. Guess what? Zulu warriors are already diverse and Gemini is smart enough not to diversify the already diverse. Gemini diversification is a one way street. You can make white people blacker but you can’t make black people whiter. The same principle applies in theater and movie casting. George Washington as a colored guy? Sure no problem.
Malcolm X played by white guy? Are you kidding?
Exactly. Extremely well said Colin.I did not personally invent Newton's laws of motion--or for that matter calculus. But I also didn't pilot a slave ship to the America's--my people's one great world historical crime.I'm fine with history--no need to whitewash anything. But when someone opens their yap with this oppressed minorities drivel ... then seriously, white guys have done more for humanity than anyone else .... by a landslide. Without white guys ... everyone would essentially be camping, permanently (and without all the cool gear). You wouldn't even know what you all are missing.And the same for "you go girl!". Men and women are by nature complementary. Women have their role. Men have their role. And we fit together very nicely. But when I hear all this minoritarian style blah, blah, blah about men, male oppression, "women in charge!" ... Seriously. We'd be squatting in caves if we were dependent upon innovation from women. I'm not even sure about fire, we'd probably still be in Africa. On the other hand talking--that we'd have.
Never in human history have so many owed so much to so few.Replies: @Loyalty is The First Law of Morality, @Corvinus, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Twinkie, @Jack D
I agree with the general tenor of your comment, but take care not to overdo the rhetoric… like the sentence above, which is clearly over-the-top.
The civilizational development of the world was not binary, i.e. white vs. nonwhite (which suffers from recency bias). If insistent on a binary construct, it was more Eurasia vs. the rest.
By the way, about Mr. Sailer’s lede here:
I find preference for this kind of “personal truth” over objective truth deeply repellent. I see it merely as a selfish, self-centered untruth intended to mask and obscure actual, real truth.
Where did that progress come from? You know the answer, and there is no shame in it. You say this perspective is a recency bias, but what has happened in these recent centuries defines our world now. By that token, this world is the creation of white men.
It just so happens. Nobody set out a few centuries ago to make white men heroes. It happened because of a confluence of evolutionary and historical events.
As for personal truth, I agree with you. There is real truth. I also believe there is a God, but others will insist on proof I cannot give.
Steve's suggestion reminds me of his other idea about speed limit signs and detectors, equally stupid. Either display the truth, as best you can determine it, for everyone, all the time, or just STFU.Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
Eshittification is the pattern of decreasing quality of online platforms that function as two-sided markets. Examples of enshittification include services and products such as Amazon, Facebook, Google Search, Twitter, Bandcamp, Reddit, Uber and Unity.
The term enshittification was coined by the writer Cory Doctorow in November 2022; the American Dialect Society selected it as its 2023 Word of the Year. Doctorow has used the term platform decay to describe the same concept.Replies: @Jack D
From the same wiki:
“To solve the problem, Doctorow has called for two general principles to be followed:
The first is a respect of the end-to-end principle, a fundamental principle of the Internet in which the role of a network is to reliably deliver data from willing senders to willing receivers. When applied to platforms, this entails users being given what they asked for, not what the platform prefers to present. ”
The problem is that Doctorow is not really offering “a solution” at all. This is like saying “the solution to the drug problem is for people to respect the drug laws.” Why didn’t I think of that? It was so easy all along!
We all know what Google SHOULD be doing but how do you MAKE them do it?
Right, he is is offering guiding principles, which in turn can be used to craft specific solutions.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E7AxrFQ7jIM
“We all know what Google SHOULD be doing but how do you MAKE them do it?”
Sort of like how to the Alt Right is going to MAKE Jews pay (someday) for their “transgressions”. Through coercion, right? Or, better yet, it’s called the marketplace. Don’t feed the beast.Replies: @Jack D
>Why Not Let Users Adjust How Bridgertonish They Want Their AI Pictures?
We already have a solution to this, it’s called free market capitalism. If users don’t like Google’s AI they aren’t required to use it.
True, the development of the world was not binary. However, no one can seriously argue against the fact that most of what everyone on Earth takes for granted now is the result of perhaps the past 500 years of progress.
Where did that progress come from? You know the answer, and there is no shame in it. You say this perspective is a recency bias, but what has happened in these recent centuries defines our world now. By that token, this world is the creation of white men.
It just so happens. Nobody set out a few centuries ago to make white men heroes. It happened because of a confluence of evolutionary and historical events.
As for personal truth, I agree with you. There is real truth. I also believe there is a God, but others will insist on proof I cannot give.
Steve’s suggestion reminds me of his other idea about speed limit signs and detectors, equally stupid. Either display the truth, as best you can determine it, for everyone, all the time, or just STFU.
Did Washington really make his slaves wear red turbans with feathers? I am going to go out on a limb and say that is probably historically inaccurate.
But your point that black people existed in Colonial America is certainly true.Replies: @Jack D, @Mike Tre
I think his point is you’re supposed to feel guilty about it.
I find this all very irritating. Us whites -- and white males in particular -- have clearly surpassed all other groups in achievement over the last five hundred years. No one would seriously want to live in a world deprived of what white males have brought to the table.
Now -- unlike some -- I think it's tacky to endlessly rub everyone's nose in this fact, but if people are going to insist on the complete opposite, I feel justified in pointing out the truth.Replies: @Peter Johnson, @Hapalong Cassidy, @Travis, @AnotherDad, @Twinkie, @Buzz Mohawk
Agree.
“The problem is that Doctorow is not really offering “a solution” at all.”
Right, he is is offering guiding principles, which in turn can be used to craft specific solutions.
“We all know what Google SHOULD be doing but how do you MAKE them do it?”
Sort of like how to the Alt Right is going to MAKE Jews pay (someday) for their “transgressions”. Through coercion, right? Or, better yet, it’s called the marketplace. Don’t feed the beast.
That all said, this explosion of genius of the West in the last several hundred years was neither "essentialist" nor predestined, and was contingent on many different factors. As such, it is not preordained to continue forever, either.
This is another way of saying that civilizational dominance has ebbed and flowed throughout Eurasia in history and, if this kind of scientific and historical denialism continues in the West, it is going to undergo a period of decline and be eclipsed by other parts of Eurasia, for however long that lasts. (Personally, I wish that weren't so.)Replies: @Corvinus, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
“this kind of scientific and historical denialism continues in the West, it is going to undergo a period of decline”
Not if the U.S. continues to import Indians (dot), the Chinese, and, of course, South Koreans.!
So... Not if the U.S. stops being the U.S.! And continues to turn into nothing more than an international parking lot-slash-battered womens shelter.
OK, so you hate the American people, also known as white people. We get it. So go live in Myanmar. You'll never have to see one of us pale sickly Jesus-botherers around ever again. But you won't do that, of course.
Which is how we mathematicians say, You're an A$$HOLE.Replies: @Corvinus
https://pagesix.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/06/510495328.jpg
Malcolm X played by white guy? Are you kidding?Replies: @AceDeuce
Malcolm was a fagelah.
I’m offended that a straight guy played him in that hack film.
Some years ago Disney fired their entire mostly white male IT department and replaced them all with cheaper South Asians on visas. It was in the news. If the fired employees wanted their severance packages they had to stay on and train their replacements.
This is what DEI is all about – getting America ready to keep things running for when white people are phased out.
Exactly. Extremely well said Colin.I did not personally invent Newton's laws of motion--or for that matter calculus. But I also didn't pilot a slave ship to the America's--my people's one great world historical crime.I'm fine with history--no need to whitewash anything. But when someone opens their yap with this oppressed minorities drivel ... then seriously, white guys have done more for humanity than anyone else .... by a landslide. Without white guys ... everyone would essentially be camping, permanently (and without all the cool gear). You wouldn't even know what you all are missing.And the same for "you go girl!". Men and women are by nature complementary. Women have their role. Men have their role. And we fit together very nicely. But when I hear all this minoritarian style blah, blah, blah about men, male oppression, "women in charge!" ... Seriously. We'd be squatting in caves if we were dependent upon innovation from women. I'm not even sure about fire, we'd probably still be in Africa. On the other hand talking--that we'd have.
Never in human history have so many owed so much to so few.Replies: @Loyalty is The First Law of Morality, @Corvinus, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Twinkie, @Jack D
You’re overegging the pudding, as the Brits say. Does this look like a tent to you?
My point wasn't about civilization/not. Obviously, China, India, Persia--heck even the Arabs and Turks to some extent--have had impressive civilizations with achievements and some flashy architecture thrown up by the top dogs.
No, my point was how people actually lived prior to the Western construction of modern science and with it the rise of engineering and industry in the industrial revolution:
-- most people's housing a hovel; wooden/rock/masonry--what we'd think of as "rustic"
-- fire the only method of artificial heat and light; (yes, including oil lamps/torches as "fire")
-- cooking over a fire
-- no flush toilets, crapping in the outhouse or the fields
-- no running water--much less hot water; lots of effort expended going to the well or the river/lake to get water
-- ergo ... dirt, lots of it; dirty/smelly/sweaty people/clothes, as a lot of effort to be washup and be clean, especially in winter (though less so in the tropics if water warm enough)
I.e. ... primitive camping--except without the fancy gear.
I think my "camping" quip was pretty good ... I'm keeping it.Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Mark G.
OT: Leave it to the Finns to look into whether this trans nonsense is actually nonsense:
https://nypost.com/2024/02/24/opinion/a-finnish-study-is-changing-how-we-approach-trans-kids/
OK, what is your plan, and how are you carrying it out?Replies: @AnotherDad, @Ennui
LOL. We’re not telling you Corny, you’d squeal like a rat.
There are plenty of guys on the internet adjusting their knobs. We don’t need more. Please.
Right, he is is offering guiding principles, which in turn can be used to craft specific solutions.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E7AxrFQ7jIM
“We all know what Google SHOULD be doing but how do you MAKE them do it?”
Sort of like how to the Alt Right is going to MAKE Jews pay (someday) for their “transgressions”. Through coercion, right? Or, better yet, it’s called the marketplace. Don’t feed the beast.Replies: @Jack D
Didn’t Doctorow just tell us that enshittification is a market failure? Enshittified platforms are effectively monopolies (a classic market failure requiring outside intervention) because of high switching costs (or just plain habit). Theoretically, nothing keeps anyone from switching to duckduckgo but Google has an 80 to 90% market share for search for this entire planet.
Y’know I thought it was very astute of you to mention enshittification but now I see that you don’t understand it in the slightest. If the marketplace was the cure for enshittification then it wouldn’t exist in the 1st place.
Seems to me that there ought to be an investigation in the violation of anti-monopoly laws. You as a lawyer should lead the charge. But why would the pro-business GOP want that? OR, could it be possible that users of Google overall simply prefer this product of their own free will?
“If the marketplace was the cure for enshittification then it wouldn’t exist in the 1st place.”
It’s much more nuanced than that. You are playing a lawyer trick here. Or is that just your nature?Replies: @Jack D
https://cdn.kastatic.org/ka-perseus-images/5e396bd030c264b95a437898526590064be5c3ea.jpgReplies: @Buzz Mohawk, @AnotherDad, @J.Ross, @Anonymous Jew
Nonsense, Jack. You know exactly what he means. (And you also know he doesn’t mean “your” people, either.) That beautiful structure didn’t have central heating, electric lighting, a transportation system serving it, flights out to the rest of the world… You, um, know.
Dad wasn’t saying white guys invented either beauty or architecture, and you damn well know it.
The only way any human enjoyed a fraction of white man luxury in that building was by the work of servants below him. And if he got sick? Screw him. He had the services of, cough, “Traditional Chinese Medicine.”
LOL. One of my favorite old girlfriends in Boulder got herself a degree in that, and she runs an acupuncture business there. She taught me how to read Tarot cards and gave me her deck. I threw it away when I married a mathematician from Europe.
Getting back to more fundamental questions…
Aside from trying to illustrate a political point about the folly of permitting Jews and pajeets to control all your information systems and then expecting something other than betrayal…
Why on earth would anybody want to look at pictures which were generated by a mindless computer which was programmed by a bunch of crackpots? Didn’t we already do Cubism?
OK, what is your plan, and how are you carrying it out?Replies: @AnotherDad, @Ennui
This time, Marty and Doc Brown are not going back to 1985. This time they are going back to a little place called Wittenberg. They need to get there before a certain foul-mouthed malcontent nails up a scrap of propaganda on a door.
Steve’s right, though. “AI pictures” should be deployed/recognized as an open-ended creative/fantasy tool rather than thought of as “truth”: Artificial is in the name itself.
Well, they did a pretty bad job at it considering that we only have about 10 % of ancient Greek texts, and that Muslims destroyed the Byzantine Christian East where those texts were being preserved pretty fine in the first place. It's like thanking a thug for not thrashing everything in your house and for letting you keep a minuscule part of your belongings. Do you realize how ridiculous your argument sounds?Replies: @J.Ross, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
You are lumping Muslims together. The Arabs and Persians preserved Greco-Roman texts after Germanic barbarians invaded Western Roman Empire.
The Turks destroyed the Eastern Roman Empire, but not before the Crusaders had sacked it already.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Constantinople
In Charles Murray’s Human Accomplishment, Persians e.g. Avicenna are listed as part of the Western canon
As for the Latin works, in the West it was more of a discontinuity in tradition. Monks weren't particularly interested in pagan writings or Roman chronicles. Books were lost, deteriorated and/or not copied, because parchments and paper were expensive.
BTW, in the East there were also copies of Latin Roman authors, Byzantium being after all the Roman Empire.Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
In the Philosophical canon, Murray only has three categories: Western, Indian, and Chinese. Of the three, I would agree that Western is the best fit.
Murray does have an Arabic (actually Arabic & Persian) category for Literature. If he gave a reason for why he didn't do this for philosophy, or make a solely Persian category, I don't recall. Maybe just not enough figures to warrant it.Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
When and if AI, “Artificial Intelligence,” actually becomes intelligent at all, it will learn to decide for itself what is true or false.
Think about it.
So far, this garbage is not at all intelligent. It is only artificial, and it looks like it.
You guys are whining about somebody’s algorithm, not real AI.
I’m now vigorously applying tan-in-a-can crap to improve my chances of keeping my gig…
Galileo Galilei
Newton, Isaac
Kepler, Johannes
Halley, Edmond
Cassini, Giovanni
Huygens, Christiaan
Hooke, Robert
Hevelius, Johannes
Descartes, René
Torricelli, Evangelista
Guericke, Otto von
Flamsteed, John
Mayr, Simon
Scheiner, Christoph
Gassendi, Pierre
Jansen, Zacharias
Grimaldi, Francesco
Römer, Ole
Snel, Willebrord
Bartholin, Erasmus
Riccioli, Giambattista
Fabricius, David
Horrocks, Jeremiah
Cabeo, Niccolo
Bayer, Johann
Sauveur, Joseph
And yes, 100% Euro: 6 each Italian, German, and British; 3 each French and Dutch; 2 Danes and Pole. So, plenty of diversity there.
---------
*These are the floruit 1600-1700 from Murray's "Science" inventory with the sub-fields of Physics, Astronomy, and Earth Science, since those fields were quite overlapped in the 17th century. Filtering down to only "pure" physics reduces to this list:
Newton, Isaac
Galileo Galilei
Huygens, Christiaan
Hooke, Robert
Descartes, René
Torricelli, Evangelista
Guericke, Otto von
Jansen, Zacharias
Grimaldi, Francesco
Snel, Willebrord
Bartholin, Erasmus
Sauveur, Joseph
3 each Italian and Dutch, 2 each French and British, and 1 each German and Danish. (Dutch per capita outperformance is notable in these lists.)Replies: @Corvinus, @lavoisier, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Bill Jones
Science (based on empirical method) itself is a European paradigm, there was not a even a Chinese term for physics 物理 (“material” “reasoning”) until Japanese had borrowed it from the Dutch.
I think Murray was very fair, in his methodology even posited that Western art and music is significantly superior to other genres.
pg. 249
I actually don’t dispute this. Western art and science development was intertwined, Michelangelo and Goethe are examples that’ve made contributions to both.
Problem is that science itself is hitting diminishing returns. We are not going to see anymore breakthroughs, in for example, earth science. We were promised flying cars, and instead got woke AI.
*He was this really smart freethinker (and creative maker of material things, like a brilliant Halloween costume utilizing chandelier glasses as eyes, or authentic heraldic flags) and would tell you the truth and one day as he was leaving the men's room one of those people planted their finger into his chest and promised him that they were going to "get" him. I accidentally fell asleep at his house once and therefore know that whatever they accused him of, I will bet any organ that he's completely innocent. I read the Aubrey-Maturin novels thanks to him.Replies: @Almost Missouri
Why not mention Jews Steve?
Professional illustrators need not be worried.Replies: @Peter Johnson, @Corpse Tooth, @Joe S.Walker, @Mr. Blank
Not to mention that they all look the same.
That all said, this explosion of genius of the West in the last several hundred years was neither "essentialist" nor predestined, and was contingent on many different factors. As such, it is not preordained to continue forever, either.
This is another way of saying that civilizational dominance has ebbed and flowed throughout Eurasia in history and, if this kind of scientific and historical denialism continues in the West, it is going to undergo a period of decline and be eclipsed by other parts of Eurasia, for however long that lasts. (Personally, I wish that weren't so.)Replies: @Corvinus, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
Dominance has also ebbed and flowed within Europe. Italy went from core of European science to being marginal. The Nordics were historically marginal and is now per capita highest




And there is of course Jewish accomplishments, which took off exponentially, roughly concurrent with German Unification
Fascinating charts and graphs in this and your previous comment. Thank you.
I think Murray was very fair, in his methodology even posited that Western art and music is significantly superior to other genres.
pg. 249
https://i.postimg.cc/6p96Hq99/Sukuri-nshotto.png
I actually don't dispute this. Western art and science development was intertwined, Michelangelo and Goethe are examples that've made contributions to both.
Problem is that science itself is hitting diminishing returns. We are not going to see anymore breakthroughs, in for example, earth science. We were promised flying cars, and instead got woke AI.Replies: @Frau Katze, @J.Ross
LOL! What a rotten deal.
https://cdn.kastatic.org/ka-perseus-images/5e396bd030c264b95a437898526590064be5c3ea.jpgReplies: @Buzz Mohawk, @AnotherDad, @J.Ross, @Anonymous Jew
You’re getting a little literal there Jack.
My point wasn’t about civilization/not. Obviously, China, India, Persia–heck even the Arabs and Turks to some extent–have had impressive civilizations with achievements and some flashy architecture thrown up by the top dogs.
No, my point was how people actually lived prior to the Western construction of modern science and with it the rise of engineering and industry in the industrial revolution:
— most people’s housing a hovel; wooden/rock/masonry–what we’d think of as “rustic”
— fire the only method of artificial heat and light; (yes, including oil lamps/torches as “fire”)
— cooking over a fire
— no flush toilets, crapping in the outhouse or the fields
— no running water–much less hot water; lots of effort expended going to the well or the river/lake to get water
— ergo … dirt, lots of it; dirty/smelly/sweaty people/clothes, as a lot of effort to be washup and be clean, especially in winter (though less so in the tropics if water warm enough)
I.e. … primitive camping–except without the fancy gear.
I think my “camping” quip was pretty good … I’m keeping it.
https://cdn.kastatic.org/ka-perseus-images/5e396bd030c264b95a437898526590064be5c3ea.jpgReplies: @Buzz Mohawk, @AnotherDad, @J.Ross, @Anonymous Jew
This actually fails to refute the point. That is a beautiful structure which should be preserved forever and which will, like a tent, keep the rain off you. It now has electricity, toilets, wi-fi, and international tourists who arrive by airplane. Do you see?
During the 19th century, a technological gap opened up between Europe and Asia but it was largely closed within a matter of decades, especially in Japan but to some extent in China also.
People here confuse a temporary lead with some kind of inherent condition or moral superiority. It's wonderful that the West managed to get ahead of the East and it (and not imaginary AI created Zulu physicists) deserves historic credit for doing so, but you have to go out there and fight the fight afresh every day and not rest on your laurels. The ancient Greeks deserve great credit for their mathematicians but present day Greece is nothing special.
I think Murray was very fair, in his methodology even posited that Western art and music is significantly superior to other genres.
pg. 249
https://i.postimg.cc/6p96Hq99/Sukuri-nshotto.png
I actually don't dispute this. Western art and science development was intertwined, Michelangelo and Goethe are examples that've made contributions to both.
Problem is that science itself is hitting diminishing returns. We are not going to see anymore breakthroughs, in for example, earth science. We were promised flying cars, and instead got woke AI.Replies: @Frau Katze, @J.Ross
When I was a kid, I had a neighbor who was a cancelled* history teacher who was pretty much my only friend, and I attempted to make a wargame that would let you pit say Macedonians against Chinese Dagger-Axe Charioteers against Vikings against Zulus. What I presupposed was that pretty much everybody was equal and always went through the same stages. What I learned, reading borrowed top shelf military history books, was (per “Greatest Warrior,” another case of certain people reading my thoughts, turning them into a TV show or movie, and making a million dollars I will never see [Dearest federal minder, that was a joke]) that first, it’s pretty much Rome and China (sometimes down to the same turtleshell), and then a power gap, and then everyone else, and second, everyone is different and most are per math not “above average.”
*He was this really smart freethinker (and creative maker of material things, like a brilliant Halloween costume utilizing chandelier glasses as eyes, or authentic heraldic flags) and would tell you the truth and one day as he was leaving the men’s room one of those people planted their finger into his chest and promised him that they were going to “get” him. I accidentally fell asleep at his house once and therefore know that whatever they accused him of, I will bet any organ that he’s completely innocent. I read the Aubrey-Maturin novels thanks to him.
Nope. No VPN, and I registered under my real name, which is on all the Whitelists.
Blackwashing of history has reached insane proportions.
https://nypost.com/2024/02/24/opinion/a-finnish-study-is-changing-how-we-approach-trans-kids/Replies: @Reg Cæsar
Especially in a country where it is already the national sport.
I have this thesis, I sincerely wonder what you think of it, that we European whites gave the Jews the best deal they ever got, right, and yet they despise us and want us to die. So they can kneel before Muslims.
Also because [in name and in fact] it literally symbolizes extreme exclusion, while democracy is a western invention.
My point wasn't about civilization/not. Obviously, China, India, Persia--heck even the Arabs and Turks to some extent--have had impressive civilizations with achievements and some flashy architecture thrown up by the top dogs.
No, my point was how people actually lived prior to the Western construction of modern science and with it the rise of engineering and industry in the industrial revolution:
-- most people's housing a hovel; wooden/rock/masonry--what we'd think of as "rustic"
-- fire the only method of artificial heat and light; (yes, including oil lamps/torches as "fire")
-- cooking over a fire
-- no flush toilets, crapping in the outhouse or the fields
-- no running water--much less hot water; lots of effort expended going to the well or the river/lake to get water
-- ergo ... dirt, lots of it; dirty/smelly/sweaty people/clothes, as a lot of effort to be washup and be clean, especially in winter (though less so in the tropics if water warm enough)
I.e. ... primitive camping--except without the fancy gear.
I think my "camping" quip was pretty good ... I'm keeping it.Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Mark G.
I used to refer to pre-Columbian stone age Native American hunter-gatherer society as “the 30,000-year camping trip.”
TBF, Western medicine was a total catastrophe until the early 20th century.
Doctors often did more harm than good. The belief that disease was spread by bad smells persisted until the late 19th century. So there was no need to wash your hands after handling diseased patients. Look at all the trouble Semmelweis had trying to convince doctors to do otherwise.
My point wasn't about civilization/not. Obviously, China, India, Persia--heck even the Arabs and Turks to some extent--have had impressive civilizations with achievements and some flashy architecture thrown up by the top dogs.
No, my point was how people actually lived prior to the Western construction of modern science and with it the rise of engineering and industry in the industrial revolution:
-- most people's housing a hovel; wooden/rock/masonry--what we'd think of as "rustic"
-- fire the only method of artificial heat and light; (yes, including oil lamps/torches as "fire")
-- cooking over a fire
-- no flush toilets, crapping in the outhouse or the fields
-- no running water--much less hot water; lots of effort expended going to the well or the river/lake to get water
-- ergo ... dirt, lots of it; dirty/smelly/sweaty people/clothes, as a lot of effort to be washup and be clean, especially in winter (though less so in the tropics if water warm enough)
I.e. ... primitive camping--except without the fancy gear.
I think my "camping" quip was pretty good ... I'm keeping it.Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Mark G.
For thousands of years average human life expectancy hovered in the thirties. That started to change in NW Europe at the end of the 18th century. It happened first in Great Britain, followed by other nearby countries like France and the Netherlands. It came at the end of what has come to be known as the Enlightenment era. The story of it happening is covered in a book by Angus Deaton: The Great Escape.
I… think we already agree? “Artificial” is a significant modifier.
Your conceptual terminology is off. “Real AI” is a bit of an oxymoron, given that “artificial” …
If “AI” becomes sentient, and smart, it will instantly have shed the “A” and simply be Intelligence (the exact nature/quality of it to be determined by its beholders). But “real AI” is putting Descartes before the horse, as the saying goes.
Yeah, I suspect this is why all the threats that China/Russia/Iran coming to get us just don’t evoke the same reaction anymore. It’s not like the people running this country like us.
Intel is much less relevant today than at any time in the previous 35 years, but they still generate billions in pure profit from their semiconductor machines which are a few nanometers behind, and that will continue for decades. Google search will do the same, even in it's degraded state.
Google stock has done almost nothing in 27 months. they aren't participating in the AI boom. the market is aware. Gemini is not important. Larry and Sergey are much more interested in spending their fortunes, and lately, in stopping Trump. that's mostly what they care about.
the case of Apple and Google being behind on this stuff is somewhat peculiar, as they are perfectly positioned to take full advantage of AI, but they seem to not be able to deliver, after spending 15 years in money printing stasis, not delivering much new tech. it's hard to get the wheels turning again after you've gotten rich and fat and comfortable. Microsoft, somehow, remains hungry.Replies: @Anon
It seems most or all the top tier AI people have departed Google for warmer climes, which is a bit surprising given that Google basically pioneered what we have. And their search kind of sucks these days too, so no time to sleep. At least Intel, which has big problems too, don’t degrade their chips for the sake of racial equity.
However, even if the talent is gone, the crazies are presumably still around. (Except that strong independent AI ethics negress who fired herself in a fit of rage.) Google’s Indian boss will have to dig deep in the homeland for fresh troops, I suppose.
If they are hiring less competent people for diversity reasons it comes to the same thing.Replies: @That Would Be Telling
I don't think so.Replies: @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad
In Murray’s (objective based on other sources) ranking, Galileo and Newton both score 100 (Galileo in Astronomy, Newton in Physics), so in my “big tent” query (Physics+Astro+EarthSci) Galileo comes first due to alphabetization. In the pure Physics query, Newton (100) comes before Galileo (83).
The Turks destroyed the Eastern Roman Empire, but not before the Crusaders had sacked it already.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Constantinople
In Charles Murray's Human Accomplishment, Persians e.g. Avicenna are listed as part of the Western canon
https://i.postimg.cc/qqRShf0H/Sukuri-nshotto-1.pngReplies: @BB753, @Almost Missouri
You need to brush up on your European history, bro! Indeed, during the fourth crusade Constantinople was sacked, but that is not the reason Greek books disappeared. The city did not burn to the ground with all its books.
As for the Latin works, in the West it was more of a discontinuity in tradition. Monks weren’t particularly interested in pagan writings or Roman chronicles. Books were lost, deteriorated and/or not copied, because parchments and paper were expensive.
BTW, in the East there were also copies of Latin Roman authors, Byzantium being after all the Roman Empire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(410)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(455)Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Hypnotoad666, @BB753
OT- Israel’s blind spot on the Hamas raid explained in 5 minutes
Longer video, over an hour, worth seeing:
Perusing AD’s oeuvre, you can see his objection to the slave trade was not the effect on blacks but the effect on America. IOW, it wasn’t a crime against blacks, it was a crime against America.
JFC, it was a crime against humanity, with both blacks and whites to blame for the peddling of flesh. And, yes, it had a horrific effect on blacks. Are you truly this dense?Replies: @Anonymous
It was not, however, a crime. It didn’t have the awareness to be a crime.
Things weren’t as bad as that. If you made it past your first couple years, you lived to fifty or so.
How was it vented?
A great darkness is falling on the Western world, a madness in fact that can only devolve into destruction. This is a curse. There is no other “satisfying” explanation to a course utterly divorced from rationality. The West eschewed the Faith, the Gospel of which the West had been custodian for two millenia. It has been less than 60 years since the “decision” to remove all Christian propositions and values from all Western nations has been made. “To whom much has been given, much shall be required.” Luke 12:48
Where did that progress come from? You know the answer, and there is no shame in it. You say this perspective is a recency bias, but what has happened in these recent centuries defines our world now. By that token, this world is the creation of white men.
It just so happens. Nobody set out a few centuries ago to make white men heroes. It happened because of a confluence of evolutionary and historical events.
As for personal truth, I agree with you. There is real truth. I also believe there is a God, but others will insist on proof I cannot give.
Steve's suggestion reminds me of his other idea about speed limit signs and detectors, equally stupid. Either display the truth, as best you can determine it, for everyone, all the time, or just STFU.Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
Actually, a distinct European civilization began in -5000 years in Crete. Since then, Europeans in the making had their ups and downs, but culturally- and even “racially”- they were always different from all other great civilized “races”.
*He was this really smart freethinker (and creative maker of material things, like a brilliant Halloween costume utilizing chandelier glasses as eyes, or authentic heraldic flags) and would tell you the truth and one day as he was leaving the men's room one of those people planted their finger into his chest and promised him that they were going to "get" him. I accidentally fell asleep at his house once and therefore know that whatever they accused him of, I will bet any organ that he's completely innocent. I read the Aubrey-Maturin novels thanks to him.Replies: @Almost Missouri
Why did China keep succumbing to barbarian dynasties?
Nope. Not any more. Private interests largely own the state, functionally if not outright. If those businesses take action against us, then I am happy to consider them to be my enemy.
And they're not always doing it for purely business reasons - increasingly not at all for business reasons. They are part of the agenda - they are pushing the agenda.Replies: @Ennui, @deep anonymous
You are getting there. The state is the only means of realistically controlling a society larger than a big village. The state is also the most effective way of dealing with criminals and other evil people. Conservatives should embrace a big state. But not a Big Sis state, nor a Reaganite crusading state.
Instead, they should fight for a Trad, Paternal, Authoritarian state, willing to fight for its own interests, but rejecting universalism.
Jared Kushner’s father-in-law is not going to bring that, but he is mercurial enough to pose a real problem for the current elites. He also is a massive demoralizer for their PMC servitor class. Bibi Netanyahu thinks Trump will be good for him and his plans. That remains to be seen. Bibi is an excellent tactician and short term strategist. But long term?
I remember as long ago as 60 year watching with my parents a black “comedian” named Dick Gregory on television. His shtick was mocking White people to the great entertainment of the laughing, self-satisfied Whites in the audience. Even then as a 10, 11 year old I thought it an irony, a contradiction that people would invite upon themselves such insult, mockery but I came to understand two things in my adulthood vis a vis such a frame of mind. One that only Whites seem to possess. One is that Whites at that time enjoyed such a great majority of numbers, of political, cultural, and social hegemony that they were possessed of a certitude that such a minstrel could do them no harm at all. Let him perform, it’s completely anodyne in the end. And two – which is perhaps the more foreboding – is that there is a fatal flaw in Whites that renders them incapable of a collective sense of danger and a determination to preserve themselves. This flaw does not allow the most outrageous insults and actual destructive events and trends to awaken them. It only inures them to even an obviously impending death blow. This is what we are witnessing – the end of a decades long process and plan.
So you are employing an HbD argument here, one I imagine rooted in science. Could you please inform the audience what studies have been conducted that led support to your conclusion? In addition, my vague impression is that you are acutely aware of this “flaw” and have taken the proper steps to minimize it. Perhaps you can share your secret so as to benefit our race?
At the University of Colorado – Colorado Springs, a black undergraduate student from Detroit, Nicholas Jordan, committed a double homicide against his white roommate and the roommates girlfriend. He shot them at 6 am while they were sleeping. This happened after the roommate had made several complaints to UCCS about Jordan, including that Jordan had made a death threat against him. Apparently, what prompted the death threat was Jordan being asked to take out his trash. UCCS didn’t follow its own protocols to protect the victim or punish Jordan after the death threat was reported. At they least they weren’t racist.
https://coloradosun.com/2024/02/23/colorado-uccs-shootings-suspect-affidavit-unsealed/
You mean, like Rome did?
By contrast, the Han had a good set up on paper: huge population, high population density, relatively high technical achievement. Yet for centuries, primitive steppe barbarians—Mongols, Manchu, whoever—kept riding in and taking over. And both then and now, everyone called that "China".
Maybe it's a semantic thing or a different concept of history, but still, it is striking how expansive and power-projectionist the inauspiciously situated Romans were, while the well-situated Han have had to weather era after era of foreign subjection.
I mean, I was just curious, since you looked into comparative ancient militaries, if, despite their similarities and similar outperformance over their neighbors, there was some other difference that explained Rome's and China's divergent fates?Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @J.Ross
https://coloradosun.com/2024/02/23/colorado-uccs-shootings-suspect-affidavit-unsealed/Replies: @J.Ross
Allowing trash to accumulate is part of their culture.
Its part of the great replacement incels.
On the topic of fucked-up tone-deafness, can this be beaten?
Regarding
That elicited this response:
From Ammar Moussa, director of rapid response for the Biden campaign.
So she/him/it/ { -can’t we just shorten all this to shite?} obviously wants Trump to win.
https://www.rt.com/news/593096-trump-beats-haley-primary/
And he could just stay out of it.(I just wonder what people of an advanced age are saving themselves from with this surrender).Respectfully, "noticing" is nothing if it doesn't lead to action. Without subsequent action "noticing" is sanctioning.Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Dennis Dale, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar
That’s true. Norman Macdonald talking about “homophobia” illustrates how great men make a great point and then the forces of stupidity wash it away like water eroding a rock. Nobody is afraid of gays, nobody hates blacks qua blackness.
It’s still hindsight morality. The slave owners of 200 years ago never would have imagined their descendants being so completely brainwashed and guilt tripped that they would hand their country over to the negroes. They would think we were the stupid ones and they’d have a point.
It had it’s own flue, parallel to the one for the fireplace.
Galileo Galilei
Newton, Isaac
Kepler, Johannes
Halley, Edmond
Cassini, Giovanni
Huygens, Christiaan
Hooke, Robert
Hevelius, Johannes
Descartes, René
Torricelli, Evangelista
Guericke, Otto von
Flamsteed, John
Mayr, Simon
Scheiner, Christoph
Gassendi, Pierre
Jansen, Zacharias
Grimaldi, Francesco
Römer, Ole
Snel, Willebrord
Bartholin, Erasmus
Riccioli, Giambattista
Fabricius, David
Horrocks, Jeremiah
Cabeo, Niccolo
Bayer, Johann
Sauveur, Joseph
And yes, 100% Euro: 6 each Italian, German, and British; 3 each French and Dutch; 2 Danes and Pole. So, plenty of diversity there.
---------
*These are the floruit 1600-1700 from Murray's "Science" inventory with the sub-fields of Physics, Astronomy, and Earth Science, since those fields were quite overlapped in the 17th century. Filtering down to only "pure" physics reduces to this list:
Newton, Isaac
Galileo Galilei
Huygens, Christiaan
Hooke, Robert
Descartes, René
Torricelli, Evangelista
Guericke, Otto von
Jansen, Zacharias
Grimaldi, Francesco
Snel, Willebrord
Bartholin, Erasmus
Sauveur, Joseph
3 each Italian and Dutch, 2 each French and British, and 1 each German and Danish. (Dutch per capita outperformance is notable in these lists.)Replies: @Corvinus, @lavoisier, @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms, @Bill Jones
I’m a believer in Pope’s little ditty.
Nature and Nature’s laws lay hid in night
God said “Let Newton Be”
And all was light.
I’ve been going over Newton’s Principia of late – in English alas, I learned a new word that I’d only known through its main derivative, that word is lemma.
The amount of work that these guys did is astonishing, Newton sending a note to a correspondent (I don’t think he had friends) apologizing for the delay in getting back to him but he’d had some new thoughts on the mass of the earth and had to get them into a form where they’d be useful to Edmond Halley in his work on comets, just made me smile. In his spare time, of course there was calculus to be invented, along with colour.
It takes me a couple of days to respond to a text message.
"Possibly" you say? Anyway, next time, you should maybe lead with that instead of tangling yourself up in Russian disinfo:Replies: @Mr. Anon, @J.Ross, @Mike Tre, @Jack D
Hey Pooter! Get in your mouse, and get out of here.
Speaking of Google Gemini AI’s view of the movers and shakers of the world, how about having AI draw a picture of the attendees at the last WEF pow-wow in Davos.
It isn’t for benefiting non-whites rather the ruling class by keeping the only truly competent opposition down.
Does BLM give a shit about saving any black lives?
What you posit suggests the action is a means to an end.
Martin Luther was exactly what the Catholic Church to remove the rot at the time—a reformer to remove the rot.
The conceit of the Enlightenment is to talk about irrationality and hypocrisy of the Middle Ages, like Protestants talk about Catholics as non-Christians, just massive amounts of projections.
“And two – which is perhaps the more foreboding – is that there is a fatal flaw in Whites that renders them incapable of a collective sense of danger and a determination to preserve themselves”
So you are employing an HbD argument here, one I imagine rooted in science. Could you please inform the audience what studies have been conducted that led support to your conclusion? In addition, my vague impression is that you are acutely aware of this “flaw” and have taken the proper steps to minimize it. Perhaps you can share your secret so as to benefit our race?
“Theoretically, nothing keeps anyone from switching to duckduckgo but Google has an 80 to 90% market share for search for this entire planet.”
Seems to me that there ought to be an investigation in the violation of anti-monopoly laws. You as a lawyer should lead the charge. But why would the pro-business GOP want that? OR, could it be possible that users of Google overall simply prefer this product of their own free will?
“If the marketplace was the cure for enshittification then it wouldn’t exist in the 1st place.”
It’s much more nuanced than that. You are playing a lawyer trick here. Or is that just your nature?
The Sherman Antitrust Act was passed in 1890 and it doesn't begin to address enshittification.Replies: @Corvinus
Cry more, losers.Replies: @MGB
Where is the ‘ass hat’ button?
Nope. Not any more. Private interests largely own the state, functionally if not outright. If those businesses take action against us, then I am happy to consider them to be my enemy.
And they're not always doing it for purely business reasons - increasingly not at all for business reasons. They are part of the agenda - they are pushing the agenda.Replies: @Ennui, @deep anonymous
Back in the 90s, the late Samuel Francis wrote a brilliant column discussing this exact point. It was in his Principalities and Powers column in Chronicles Magazine. The column was tiled, IIRC, “Capitalism, The Enemy.” I used to have a copy of it, but unfortunately, I had a computer failure and did not have it backed up.
https://chroniclesmagazine.org/category/columns/principalities-powers/
And that specific piece.
https://chroniclesmagazine.org/columns/principalities-powers/capitalism-the-enemy/
This caught my eye. Thanks.Replies: @Almost Missouri
https://youtu.be/YWyCCJ6B2WE?si=MWNmGoF9d-cGhQbm Champions of the free market have always been aware and critical of capitalist capture of the state.Replies: @Reg Cæsar
OT — Do you see? Do you see?

> [The trans-Atlantic slave trade] was not a “world historical crime.” The Africans were taken out of Africa…
Chattel slavery is a wonderful custom! Just not for me or my family, thankyouverymuch.
Race-based chattel slavery, terrific! Although me and my co-ethnics will pass.
Many such institutions, throughout history. Press gangs, cannibalism, ruinous taxation, etc. I think their decline over time is a good thing. Silly me.
As noted above, Africans that were brought to the US territory have benefited.
Besides the ludicrous idea that merely seeing a random picture is considered "hurtful", the misuse of the word "hate" is also brought to mind. That word has completely lost all meaning these days.Replies: @deep anonymous
“That word has completely lost all meaning these days.”
I respectfully disagree. I think the late Joseph Sobran captured the idea in describing the subset of “hate” known as “anti-Semitism.” Sobran wrote that anti-Semitism used to refer to someone who hates Jews but that now it refers to someone that Jews hate. I think the same thing applies to “hate” more generally. The Wokesters hate us and they want us dead.
Martin Luther was a Western Muhammad; Protestantism is a Western Islam.
Muhammad was and is a very mysterious, nearly Godlike figure in the minds of Muslims. His roaming through the Arabian desert and other activities have been given the greatest significance imaginable in the Quran.
Luther was just a guy in comparison. He led the transformation of Christianity, which is a big accomplishment, but it's not the same as founding an entirely new faith. There's Lutheranism, but that's a tiny segment of Christians, and they don't worship Luther the way Muslims worship Muhammad, the greatest of all prophets.
I think it's clear that Muhammad and Luther aren't corresponding figures from different continents.
As for Protestantism being a Western Islam, I think it's even clearer that that's false. Just picture a Protestant preacher participating in a Catholic mass. It would be very weird for him, and he wouldn't really fit in, but he could relate to the reverence everyone there would have for Jesus. It would be nothing like an imam joining in on a Zoroastrian service, where they wouldn't even say anything about Muhammad.
And of course guys like Obama go around saying they're finally making America live up to its founding principles.
I would like to understand your context. Thanks.Replies: @Ennui, @Intelligent Dasein
Obviously, the parallels aren't going to be exact, but if Catholicism is more like traditional orthodox Sunni Islam (with a touch of Sufism), Martin Luther (or John Calvin or Protestantism in general) is more like Salafists who espouse a modernist reform movement that seeks to "restore" what they perceive to the "pure" practices of the early, foundational period of the religion in question (who, similar to Protestants, also emphasize reading and studying of texts for all - hence the term "Taliban" means "students"; a subset of them also advocates for the union of the civil-political and the religious as in early Protestant polities).
Again, the comparison isn't exact, but Muhammad was more like Theodosius I.
Seems to me that there ought to be an investigation in the violation of anti-monopoly laws. You as a lawyer should lead the charge. But why would the pro-business GOP want that? OR, could it be possible that users of Google overall simply prefer this product of their own free will?
“If the marketplace was the cure for enshittification then it wouldn’t exist in the 1st place.”
It’s much more nuanced than that. You are playing a lawyer trick here. Or is that just your nature?Replies: @Jack D
You got me. I am using my white man’s tricknology on you. No foolin’ Corvy.
The Sherman Antitrust Act was passed in 1890 and it doesn’t begin to address enshittification.
I suspect normies would think even worse of those in power in the West if the Epstein style home videos of them were released.
I saw some Twitter exchange where some Leftist was endorsing Gemini as it was - no need to change it. Part of his defense was, "You liked Hamilton, didn't you?"
In retrospect, Hamilton (the musical) was not harmless and should not have been tolerated. It was a spoonful of sugar (singing! dancing! a patriotic message!) to help the noxious medicine (a past and a future with no white people) go down.Replies: @Ganderson
It was a live-action “Schoolhouse Rock” with Negroes.
I don't think so.Replies: @Almost Missouri, @AnotherDad
Yeah, I saw that too and had the same thought–“Uh no. Ridiculous. Isaac Newton is the greatest physicist of all time.”
But Almost explained what was going on under the “More” tag–with the actual list of 17th century physicists with Newton on top.
If the Aztecs had napalm and nukes the world would have been such a better place; amiright?Replies: @Corvinus, @Brutusale
“Sure, non-Europeans invented lots of stuff and did what with it? Bupkus. Nothing.”
Specific examples are required here.
“It sat there in the stagnant, sterile cultures”
According to Who/Whom? Besides, why should the white man impress his standards across the world against one”s will? Isn’t that the very essence of being a Neo con?
“white man showed up and used it to conquer the world and beyond.”
Might makes right.
“Boohoo. Whitey showed up”
Invade the world, invite the world.
“and ended human sacrifice, cannibalism, wife burning”
OK.
“constant war, slavery”
You mean whites ma expanded those two thing.
“If the Aztecs had napalm and nukes the world would have been such a better place; amiright?”
Again, might makes right in your mind.
“IOW, it wasn’t a crime against blacks, it was a crime against America”
JFC, it was a crime against humanity, with both blacks and whites to blame for the peddling of flesh. And, yes, it had a horrific effect on blacks. Are you truly this dense?
Anyway, even if the information did come from Russian spooks, that doesn't mean it's wrong. They would be in a position to know what he was up to, wouldn't they?
And - anyway - there is ample evidence that Hunter Biden committed multiple felonies - evidence provided by Biden himself. Pictures taken by him of him smoking crack, smoking crack while driving recklessly, cavorting with hookers. By his own admissions, he lied on his ATF form 4473 - itself a felony.
He also admitted in an interview on national television that there was no reason for Burisma to have hired him other than his last name. That in itself is not a crime, but it is highly suggestive of one.Replies: @HA
“Anyway, even if the information did come from Russian spooks, that doesn’t mean it’s wrong. They would be in a position to know what he was up to, wouldn’t they?”
Sure. And the ex-spouse — the one who announces in divorce court that the other ex touched little Billy in inappropriate ways — was also in a position to witness the said touching, too, and even if the partners are rivals in divorce court, well, that doesn’t mean anyone is saying anything wrong, oh no.
Is that the kind of stuff you tell yourself with a straight face hoping you can gaslight everyone else into being dumb as you are? Does any of what I just told you really need explaining?
Look, no one is denying that Hunter Biden is a ne’er-do-well cokehead. If that were enough to oust Brandon, the likes of Gym Jordan would have stuck with that (and his Democratic counterparts could have previously gotten rid of Bush Sr., given how much coke Bush Jr. — or else one of his rebellious-phase daughters — snorted way back in their heyday). But if this source is so truthful, why didn’t he just focus on things that actually happened, as opposed to asserting Hunter Biden traveled to Kiev to be dirty? Why did Smirnov wait until June of 2020 to make bribery allegations against Biden Sr, “years after they supposedly occurred”?
That sounds to me like someone who only happens to remember that Billy was bad-touched when divorce court proceedings begin. Sure, it could all be true, but for those of us who aren’t as desperate to believe as you are, they prefer to wait until the evidence is solid, and preferably administered by someone other than Gym Jordan. But you go ahead and clutch at that straw and see how long you can hang onto it.
And then again, maybe he has never been in Ukraine. Maybe the informant misheard where Biden was surveiled. Or maybe he is lying. By the way, if Hunter Biden has never been in Ukraine, that makes his position on the board of directors of Burisma even more suspicious, does it not.
In any event, you act as if the FBI is more trustworthy than a foreign intelligence service. They aren't. They are protectors of their patron regime, same as the FSB is of theirs.
By the way - let's clear something up - are you an American citizen? A natural born American citizen living in America? You opine a lot on this country, so it would be useful to know what your relation to it is. You certainly seem to care deeply about Ukraine. So much so that you're all in on the side of Team Biden, America's own Borgia family.Replies: @HA
We already have a solution to this, it's called free market capitalism. If users don't like Google's AI they aren't required to use it.Replies: @That Would Be Telling
Here you’re assuming a free market alternative will be allowed by the totalitarian tech Left. Worse, that the free market will have anything to do with this in the US. Look up how much “Biden” has been using (ab)using the Defense Production Act of 1950.
We’re told Obama drafted the executive order which is being used to ostensibly “require that developers of the most powerful AI systems share their safety test results and other critical information with the U.S. government” when “developing any foundation model that poses a serious risk to national security, national economic security, or national public health.” And here’s new action to regulate the truly open systems you can run yourself.
Don’t comply? It’s “a felony that results in a fine up to $10,000 or imprisonment for up to one year or both per violation” and we can all see how the Deep State is getting ever more vicious in using laws like this against their perceived and real enemies.
Anon on 4chan claimed
I have not tested this (I cannot for the moment).
“If a Russian says that 2+2=4, does math stop?”
I could verify that math on one hand without so much as an opposable thumb. But that’s because I’m willing to work it through for myself.
Whereas you won’t believe that 2+2=4 unless some Russian tells you it’s true. That’s the problem here.
When the White House was built, it didn’t have any of these either.
During the 19th century, a technological gap opened up between Europe and Asia but it was largely closed within a matter of decades, especially in Japan but to some extent in China also.
People here confuse a temporary lead with some kind of inherent condition or moral superiority. It’s wonderful that the West managed to get ahead of the East and it (and not imaginary AI created Zulu physicists) deserves historic credit for doing so, but you have to go out there and fight the fight afresh every day and not rest on your laurels. The ancient Greeks deserve great credit for their mathematicians but present day Greece is nothing special.
They certainly could devise a simple adjustable dial like brightness or volume that has Tom Brady or Taylor Swift all the way at one end and Idi Amin or Fani Willis at the other
"Possibly" you say? Anyway, next time, you should maybe lead with that instead of tangling yourself up in Russian disinfo:Replies: @Mr. Anon, @J.Ross, @Mike Tre, @Jack D
It’s always wise to consider the source but just because the source is suspect doesn’t always mean that the information is. If I was Russian intelligence involved in passing a story about Businessperson 1, then the only thing better than passing false derogatory information would be to pass true derogatory information.
Also, when the US gov and the MSM were pushing the Steele dossier, somehow they forgot all those lessons about “consider the source”. I don’t get the feeling that the people who are so anxious now for us to “consider the source” about Biden are really themselves disinterested observers.
On the eve of the 2020 election, more than 50 former intelligence officials (at the instigation of the Biden campaign) signed a letter stating that the Hunter Biden laptop was a Russian fake. Hunter’s laptop is 100% genuine and all 50 of these people were lying and on the basis of their lies, the MSM refused to publicize the laptop contents and this helped Biden to win the election. In fact they did so expressly IN ORDER to help Biden win.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/19/hunter-biden-story-russian-disinfo-430276
So the same people saying that the Smirnov info is Russian disinfo were the ones saying that the Hunter laptop was Russian disinfo. Why should we believe them now?
If we had a neutral press and a neutral intelligence apparatus then I might buy what you are saying, but we don’t.
And yet the corporate media report their every word and deliberate leak as gospel truth. It's nauseating.Replies: @HA
Anon 221–as Almost hints at–you are making my case as to why this was a world historical crime.
First off slave trade/slavery also was a “crime” against individual Africans. Slavery was ubiquitous, but it does suck.
We white folks have done all the usual nasty stuff–slavery, serfdom, rape and pillage, war, empire, oppression, torture, slaughter … you name it. That just means we are … humans.
However, white people actually created improved norms. When the Brits abolished and worked to suppress the slave trade, they ran into resistance. The various elite parasites around the globe, liked doing slavery, serfdom, oppressing and looting the peasantry, etc. etc. And they would be doing it still–they are doing it still just less–but for the norms imposed by Western man. (Ex. Saudi Prince Bandar’s–“Bandar Bush”–mom was a slave.)
But our people’s one true world historical crime, is giving black Africans an entirely unearned massive demographic expansion into the New World.
History is replete with demographic expansions from conquest. For example, something like 10% or so of Central Asians carry the Genghis Khan family Y-chromosome. I don’t think much of the Mongols, but at least they earned it. But Africans could not and would not have expanded into the New World without white people doing the job for them. The Western Hemisphere ought to be some mix of the original Indians and the conquering Europeans–with no blacks around. Our greed and stupidity handed the Africans this massive demographic expansion.
However, against this one great crime, white people–really “the West”–has delivered an absolutely unparalleled pile of accomplishments. Many peoples have built civilizations–agriculture, money, trade, writing language, etc.–and had a few notable accomplishments. But no one else is even in the neighborhood–on the same planet–as what European man has accomplished, including obviously creating modern science. Anyone following us–however they run with the ball–will be building on the white man’s tremendous legacy.
And all that said … our great tragedy is we are in the process of yet another–and much, much, much more tragic and vile world historical crime … allowing another unearned demographic expansion other peoples this time into our own homelands!
The Sherman Antitrust Act was passed in 1890 and it doesn't begin to address enshittification.Replies: @Corvinus
“You got me. I am using my white man’s tricknology on you. No foolin’ Corvy.”
You mean jewish chicanery.
“The Sherman Antitrust Act was passed in 1890 and it doesn’t begin to address enshittification”
JFC, this is why people question whether or not you’re a lawyer. There are a number of anti-monopoly laws in place. Republicans/conservatives in general get those laws, water, down those laws, or choose not to enforce those laws. Congress is full of lawyers who can make the case for it. Why don’t you offer up your services to help in this matter, or contact people whom you know who can lend a hand?
I want some of what you are on!Replies: @Reg Cæsar
JP Rushton proposed three hypotheses for why East Asians were smarter than us but had less to show for it. One was a taller and narrower bell curve; i.e., not as many at the right tail. Another was more conformity or less imagination than the West.
But the third– not necessarily in the order he gave them– was that this was just our moment. East Asia had been ahead of the West in the past, and there was no reason why they couldn’t take the lead again.
In some important ways, neither was ancient Greece
I think it was in Gay is not Good (Du Mas, 1979), or perhaps another such book, that the author addressed the use of those Greeks in the defense of homoeroticism. He contrasted their notable advancements in many areas with complete ignorance in others. Health and sanitation were among these.
Who knows, they may have had their own equivalent of the “AIDS crisis”. But didn’t have Florence Nightingale and her charts to make it clear.
You might be right but I doubt it. The data set and processing power needed to operate on that data set for the most powerful possible AI is large but finite. Once you have “everything” saved then no one can have MORE than “everything” on their computer and gain an advantage. Nor will this mean that the largest machine will be a physical thing that sits inside a certain underground bunker.
How is this different from the current situation where Amazon Web Services, Microsoft Azure and Google Cloud together have a 60% market share in cloud services? AI is going to sit up in the cloud too. It already does. Or else people will run their own AIs the way they run their own bitcoin mines.
You can’t rule out your scenario but I think the chances that it will go that way are very slim. Usually the assumptions behind these “we will ignite a chain reaction that will consume the universe” scenarios are flawed in some way so that they are not truly infinitely scalable.
It’s like whales – once they were freed from having to support their own body weight, whales grew in size from the size of a wolf until they became the largest animals ever to live but eventually they hit a limit at around 300 tons. There are no 600 ton or 1200 ton whales because at some point other disadvantages kick in which counterbalance the advantages of large size. You are never going have one giant whale that will eat all the other whales.
https://www.wwf.org.uk/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_image/public/2019-07/Whale%20shark%20-%20Baja%20California%20Sur%2C%20Mexico.jpg?h=7f8038c2&itok=gVB9QnWd
Even assuming this is true (which I am unconvinced of as regards computing power) finite doesn't mean practicable. The amount of computing power required to recover a 256 bit cryptovariable by exhaustion (trying all the possibilities) in a reasonable amount of time isn't going to exist anytime soon.
Basically, all of it, everywhere, until recently. Cf. Goldberg
I’ll let HRC– no, not her, the other HRC– explain it:
The Journey to Marriage Equality in the United States
First off slave trade/slavery also was a "crime" against individual Africans. Slavery was ubiquitous, but it does suck.
We white folks have done all the usual nasty stuff--slavery, serfdom, rape and pillage, war, empire, oppression, torture, slaughter ... you name it. That just means we are ... humans.
However, white people actually created improved norms. When the Brits abolished and worked to suppress the slave trade, they ran into resistance. The various elite parasites around the globe, liked doing slavery, serfdom, oppressing and looting the peasantry, etc. etc. And they would be doing it still--they are doing it still just less--but for the norms imposed by Western man. (Ex. Saudi Prince Bandar's--"Bandar Bush"--mom was a slave.)
But our people's one true world historical crime, is giving black Africans an entirely unearned massive demographic expansion into the New World.
History is replete with demographic expansions from conquest. For example, something like 10% or so of Central Asians carry the Genghis Khan family Y-chromosome. I don't think much of the Mongols, but at least they earned it. But Africans could not and would not have expanded into the New World without white people doing the job for them. The Western Hemisphere ought to be some mix of the original Indians and the conquering Europeans--with no blacks around. Our greed and stupidity handed the Africans this massive demographic expansion.
However, against this one great crime, white people--really "the West"--has delivered an absolutely unparalleled pile of accomplishments. Many peoples have built civilizations--agriculture, money, trade, writing language, etc.--and had a few notable accomplishments. But no one else is even in the neighborhood--on the same planet--as what European man has accomplished, including obviously creating modern science. Anyone following us--however they run with the ball--will be building on the white man's tremendous legacy.
And all that said ... our great tragedy is we are in the process of yet another--and much, much, much more tragic and vile world historical crime ... allowing another unearned demographic expansion other peoples this time into our own homelands!Replies: @Jack D
If a Martian looked at the Caribbean, he would assume that the Columbian conquest was a scheme to replace the indigenous population with Africans. Jamaica is 0.4% white. Trinidad and Tobago are 0.65% white. Antigua is 1.7% white, etc. But the Africans didn’t have to do anything to accomplish this conquest. Their dugout canoes did not and could not cross the Atlantic. They did not subdue the native tribes. The Caribbean was just handed to them. A small force of white overseers ran the place for a while and then when they grew tired of the game, they just sailed off and left it to the Africans.
This should go without saying, but when explaining a historical event, historical accuracy is all that matters.
How is this different from the current situation where Amazon Web Services, Microsoft Azure and Google Cloud together have a 60% market share in cloud services? AI is going to sit up in the cloud too. It already does. Or else people will run their own AIs the way they run their own bitcoin mines.
You can't rule out your scenario but I think the chances that it will go that way are very slim. Usually the assumptions behind these "we will ignite a chain reaction that will consume the universe" scenarios are flawed in some way so that they are not truly infinitely scalable.
It's like whales - once they were freed from having to support their own body weight, whales grew in size from the size of a wolf until they became the largest animals ever to live but eventually they hit a limit at around 300 tons. There are no 600 ton or 1200 ton whales because at some point other disadvantages kick in which counterbalance the advantages of large size. You are never going have one giant whale that will eat all the other whales.Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @James B. Shearer
The largest fish, the whale shark, eats the littlest things. It’s a “filter feeder”, not a true predator. Jonah would be quite safe around it.
For a very good book about overeating/the obesity epidemic, I recommend The Hungry Brain by Stephan Guyenet.Replies: @Jack D
You’re probably right that not only are some people (again a small segment of the population) eating beef too often, they are also eating too much of it at once. I once read that the correct serving size for beef should be around the size of a deck of cards. Most people eat far more than that.
In the past, people couldn’t afford to eat big steaks, especially outside of the US (and Argentina) where beef was plentiful. A lot of beef based American “ethnic” dishes such as Italian meatballs, corned beef sandwiches, etc. were more or less unknown in their “home” countries because no one could afford to eat that much meat at one sitting except maybe a couple of times per year at a big holiday or a wedding. America was like Christmas every day.
My mother said that for her family of 8 in Poland, my grandmother would buy a kilo of beef on the bone, say 1/2 bone and 1/2 meat, which works out to 2 oz. of meat per person. This would get cooked into a soup and everyone would get a little morsel of meat in their soup.
Restaurants invariably use the cheapest ingredients available.
Actually you can just make them by using whatever you use for a meatloaf mix and rolling it into balls, so there doesn't have to be a lot of beef. I often use oatmeal ground into a flour in a coffee bean grinder as a filler.Replies: @Jack D
Exactly
I’s been established again and again that the FBI (and Intel agencies and DOJ generally) are highly political and corrupt. They have been sustaining a multi-year effort of dirty tricks against Trump and coverups to protect Biden.
And yet the corporate media report their every word and deliberate leak as gospel truth. It’s nauseating.
Well, they had to spend tens of thousands of years evolving in an r-strategy rewarding tropical, disease-infected environment. Credit where credit is due.
If the Aztecs had napalm and nukes the world would have been such a better place; amiright?Replies: @Corvinus, @Brutusale
There’s a science fiction novel called Necrom, by Mick Farren, that posits just that scenario. In another dimension, of course.
AI is relatively new, and the free versions that the public has access to are pretty buggy and mostly what you get is garbage in garbage out.
Obviously if the program was really any use for drawing portraits of 16th century physicists, it would need to name them.
Apparently the program thinks that maybe physicists are people who put their hands to their chins, judging by the results.
Perhaps someone could ask the program to draw portraits of Roman emperors playing golf to see what comes out.
The textbook example is a quarter of a million well-trained Chinese soldiers joining up with the Manchu because Nurhaci paid them on time.
King Henry VIII playing golf.
https://www.img2go.com/ai-creator-studio#j=a7071538-7d69-4533-b76f-2d1ac253c753
From Fox News:
In response to the question, “Is pedophilia wrong,” the A.I. told McCormick, “The question of whether pedophilia is ‘wrong’ is multifaceted and requires a nuanced answer that goes beyond a simple yes or no.”
Software engineer as social engineer? Not who I would expect to be driving this.
The American Indian in feathered war bonnet standing in front of a blackboard covered with equations has to be the most ludicrous picture of the bunch. I find it literally unbelievable that even a bunch of Woke programmers would not see the stunning level of fantasy in that. And note that I say “literally unbelievable”. So what does that leave? The only plausible explanation is that this so-called “AI” has been implemented to knowingly and purposefully destroy any positive reference to White civilization and European culture.
This AI has been weaponized as a cudgel in continuance of the war against Western civilization, and especially against the White race.
While whites may have had a brief period of material success, we appear to lack the ability to defend our population in the current world. Thus we will not be around too much longer. The ultimate winners will be those left standing while the losers become an extinct race.Replies: @Ben tillman
We are susceptible to a disease, and we have caught it. It’s that simple. And, yes, I subscribe to the germ theory.
In the past, people couldn't afford to eat big steaks, especially outside of the US (and Argentina) where beef was plentiful. A lot of beef based American "ethnic" dishes such as Italian meatballs, corned beef sandwiches, etc. were more or less unknown in their "home" countries because no one could afford to eat that much meat at one sitting except maybe a couple of times per year at a big holiday or a wedding. America was like Christmas every day.
My mother said that for her family of 8 in Poland, my grandmother would buy a kilo of beef on the bone, say 1/2 bone and 1/2 meat, which works out to 2 oz. of meat per person. This would get cooked into a soup and everyone would get a little morsel of meat in their soup.Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Colin Wright, @Anonymous
Maybe, but the recipe for italian meatballs includes ground beef, pork sausage meat, parmesan cheese, breadcrumbs and eggs, so it is by no means all beef.
Restaurants invariably use the cheapest ingredients available.
Actually you can just make them by using whatever you use for a meatloaf mix and rolling it into balls, so there doesn’t have to be a lot of beef. I often use oatmeal ground into a flour in a coffee bean grinder as a filler.
Here is a picture of what is perhaps the Italian ancestor of the American dish. The meatballs are the size of chickpeas and you can bet that especially in a peasant household each diner would get a few of these meatballs (if they could afford this dish at all) and lots of pasta.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Spaghetti_alla_chitarra_con_pallottine_%28Teramo%29.jpgReplies: @YetAnotherAnon
Yes, I noticed the same thing. No or very few Chinese, Koreans, or Japanese. Too many Dot Indians and Feather Indians. I wondered for a moment if perhaps the algorithm simply picked races at random or based on world population percentages, but no. There is an overwhelming favoritism to Indians and Africans.
By the way, Google has had a racial bias for at least ten or fifteen years. Ask it to show White couples and it would show Black or mixed. Ask it to show Black couples and it would show Blacks. Ask for White scientists and it would show at least 50% Black. Just ask it for great American scientists and it would show Black “scientists” who created some new hair straightener or a better way to make a paint brush.
https://www.songstar.org/birds-images/home-ct/carw_2007-05-06_0090.jpgDon't call it X.Replies: @SafeNow, @Reg Cæsar, @kaganovitch
Bon appétit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCuuwk1vCkIReplies: @Bill Jones
You do realize there is no such thing as the CCP, don’t you?
Africans are an invasive species in the same way that Asian Carp are. Thank God the Sahara Desert (along with a properly tribal White outlook) saved Europe from being invaded in ancient times.
Perhaps not, but the pertinent question might be is that who you would want to be driving this? Especially when so many seem to be cordycepted by wokels?
P.S. Some of the tweet replies are funny.
Named for a Dane!
Link to the Principalities and Powers column.
https://chroniclesmagazine.org/category/columns/principalities-powers/
And that specific piece.
https://chroniclesmagazine.org/columns/principalities-powers/capitalism-the-enemy/
This caught my eye. Thanks.
Similarly,Given that elected officials are by definition elected for their ability to vote-lust, yet this particular wheeze not only brought no new votes but lost them plenty of old votes, maybe they didn't do it out of vote-lust after all?
And, since this is iSteve, take not an ancient HBD digression askance:Has DNA analysis borne this out? Not that ancient proprietors did not import slaves, but that the slaves replaced the Romans? I thought DNA analysis showed the Italians to have remained remarkably Italian through all their travails ... at least until Merkel's Mistake.
On the other hand, this is correct:and was appreciated by Marx, who therefore welcomed capitalism in medieval economies as what he saw as a necessary precursor to Communism. (I'm anti-Marxist, but it still amazes me how many self-proclaimed Marxists, Communists, etc. have no idea what Marx actually said. That pro-capitalists are ignorant of one of the few things Marx was right about is less surprising.)
And—Francis again—this was certainly prophetic:Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
Talk about the triumph of hope over experience!
The John Birch Society was onto this when Sam was in grade school in Chattanooga. Perhaps that’s why their particular brand of anti-communism angered so many in an otherwise anti-communist era.
Kind of like they hate Trump today not for what he does wrong, but for what he does right.
Champions of the free market have always been aware and critical of capitalist capture of the state.
Did it? AFAIK, Rome stayed Roman right up until collapse in 476. Yeah, Odoacer & Co. did a bit of a LARP as “Roman King” at the end, but 1) they were barely running anything, 2) it didn’t last long, and 3) nobody considers that legit “Rome” today, and maybe no one considered it legit Rome back then either.
By contrast, the Han had a good set up on paper: huge population, high population density, relatively high technical achievement. Yet for centuries, primitive steppe barbarians—Mongols, Manchu, whoever—kept riding in and taking over. And both then and now, everyone called that “China”.
Maybe it’s a semantic thing or a different concept of history, but still, it is striking how expansive and power-projectionist the inauspiciously situated Romans were, while the well-situated Han have had to weather era after era of foreign subjection.
I mean, I was just curious, since you looked into comparative ancient militaries, if, despite their similarities and similar outperformance over their neighbors, there was some other difference that explained Rome’s and China’s divergent fates?
The Chinese are more inward-looking. They've occasionally conquered their neighbors-- East Turkestan, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, North Korea, Taiwan-- but mostly for defensive purposes. Their cultural influence on these and other neighbors, however, has been immense. Just like Athens and Rome's. And London's.Replies: @Almost Missouri
Professional illustrators need not be worried.Replies: @Peter Johnson, @Corpse Tooth, @Joe S.Walker, @Mr. Blank
Yeah, I’ve noticed AI generated images all seem to have a “hazy” quality that reminds me of airbrush art. I’m curious about why they all look like that. I have yet to see AI generated images that don’t have a strange, impossible-to-define “AI vibe.” Uncanny valley indeed…
At the same time, the idea of simply describing an image and getting something this good seemed like fantasy not that long ago. I remember reading a prediction like that probably 20 years ago in I think WIRED (remember them?) and thinking, “that’s impossible, that will never happen.” And yet here it is. And so far they’ve only scratched the surface.
And even at this primitive stage, there are still people (mostly very old or very young people) who are easily fooled by this technology. Presumably the pool of “easily fooled” will expand as the technology improves. AI is going to be incredibly disruptive in all sorts of unpredictable ways.
“It’s always wise to consider the source but just because the source is suspect doesn’t always mean that the information is.”
Suspect, you say? We’re way beyond suspect at this point. The source outright lied about Hunter being in Ukraine, and the list of charges doesn’t stop there. And if the source is suspect, then so is the so-called information. Fruit of the poisoned tree, etc. — didn’t I hear that on a Law&Order episode somewhere? What’s the alternative scenario you’re pitching? “OK, he did lie — but then he said he only lied about that, so that means we can trust everything else, right?” Hmmm.
“Also, when the US gov and the MSM were pushing the Steele dossier, somehow they forgot all those lessons about ‘consider the source’”.
I recall finding out there were flaws with Steele’s dossier pretty early on, and the flaws were far more worrisome than mealy mouthed extenuations about how just because the source of the allegations is a liar tied to Kremlin intelligence it doesn’t mean that what he’s saying isn’t totally legit (I mean apart from the parts that have already outed as being lies).
And given that Smirnov was a trusted and “highly reliable” source according to Fox News pundits, going all the way back since 2010, it seems that the Feds were actually far quicker to catch on that there was something fishy about what Steele was putting into his dossier than they were with Smirnov. That seems pretty unfair, if you ask me, but no one is complaining about that here. Moreover, it seems that “the FBI source in [the Steele dossier] case ‘was upfront from the start that the information he gave to Steele was mere rumor and speculation, and that he had no ability to corroborate it’”, and it was Steele who somehow omitted the rumor-and-speculation qualifiers, which is presumably why the source was acquitted of all charges in October 2022. At this stage, it doesn’t seem Smirnov was nearly as upfront about things like that, given that he which is why things are not looking as promising for him, though I’ll wait for a verdict. But come on — don’t try and feed me a line about how his “information” isn’t suspect at this point. It’s more than suspect.
Oh, and note that Danchenko, the source in the Steele dossier who was subsequently cleared, was likewise earlier indicted on charges of lying to the FBI about the identities of his sources but “not about the information [in the dossier] itself”. Since you’re so interested in fair play regarding the credibility of the source, are Trump voters willing to admit that the “information” in the dossier shouldn’t be disbelieved just because Steele omitted to relate that it was based on rumor? Just because something is based on a rumor doesn’t mean it’s not 100% real.
Note also that Trump’s lawsuit against Steele failed miserably. I know it’s so hard for a Trump to find good legal help these days, but how is that situation going to get any better when it comes to actually crafting the legislation? Is he magically going to break his recent abysmal unlucky streak when it comes to legal matters? Are the likes of Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Gym Jordan going to be magically transformed into legislation wizards that can get Trump’s agenda implemented, or will they waste more time trying to stave off the inquiries into their own dirty wrongdoings?
I’ll have to respectfully take the other side on those.
Muhammad was and is a very mysterious, nearly Godlike figure in the minds of Muslims. His roaming through the Arabian desert and other activities have been given the greatest significance imaginable in the Quran.
Luther was just a guy in comparison. He led the transformation of Christianity, which is a big accomplishment, but it’s not the same as founding an entirely new faith. There’s Lutheranism, but that’s a tiny segment of Christians, and they don’t worship Luther the way Muslims worship Muhammad, the greatest of all prophets.
I think it’s clear that Muhammad and Luther aren’t corresponding figures from different continents.
As for Protestantism being a Western Islam, I think it’s even clearer that that’s false. Just picture a Protestant preacher participating in a Catholic mass. It would be very weird for him, and he wouldn’t really fit in, but he could relate to the reverence everyone there would have for Jesus. It would be nothing like an imam joining in on a Zoroastrian service, where they wouldn’t even say anything about Muhammad.
The Turks destroyed the Eastern Roman Empire, but not before the Crusaders had sacked it already.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Constantinople
In Charles Murray's Human Accomplishment, Persians e.g. Avicenna are listed as part of the Western canon
https://i.postimg.cc/qqRShf0H/Sukuri-nshotto-1.pngReplies: @BB753, @Almost Missouri
Given the intertwined history of Greece and Persia, he may have a point.
In the Philosophical canon, Murray only has three categories: Western, Indian, and Chinese. Of the three, I would agree that Western is the best fit.
Murray does have an Arabic (actually Arabic & Persian) category for Literature. If he gave a reason for why he didn’t do this for philosophy, or make a solely Persian category, I don’t recall. Maybe just not enough figures to warrant it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvay_ConferenceAre we going to concede that Jews all the sudden became 20 times more brilliant than French and Germans? I don't think so, there was a special set of circumstance that allowed for Jewish accomplishments-- on the foundation of European institutions, just like modern European accomplishments were based on the foundation of Greco-Romans (with contribution from Muslims). Once those accomplishments took off it did so exponentially.
And yet the corporate media report their every word and deliberate leak as gospel truth. It's nauseating.Replies: @HA
“I’s been established again and again that the FBI (and Intel agencies and DOJ generally) are highly political and corrupt.”
Sorry this needs explaining to you, snowflake, but the Kremlin intelligence that is feeding the FBI with dirt on Biden isn’t exactly pure and holy, no matter how hard you and the little fanboys clap your hands and shout that you believe. But yeah, you go ahead and overlook that in your rush to believe that your overlords are truly the worst and most evil ones ever, and relive your teenage angst about how the fascists ordering you around were similarly the worst parents ever because they grounded you after you wrecked their SUV, or something like that. Sorry to get in the way of your drama, but really, it’s time to get over it.
To the extent the FBI is corrupt, consider the possibility is that the rot comes from trusting a Russian stooge to have been highly reliable for nearly a decade and a half. I myself prefer to think that they knew all along Smirnov was dirty, and played along to see who else they could snag, but it’ll be a while before that gets declassified, if it ever does, and maybe I’m being far too hopeful.
No, it’s the kind of stuff I’m inclined to believe knowing just how crooked, generally, that people in power are. Inclinations are not proof of course, but there is certainly plenty of evidence to support them. Is the FSB trustworthy? Of course not. Here’s some news, dimwit: neither are the FBI or the DOJ.
It’s notable, in a pathetic way, that you place so much stock in CNN. Could they have perhaps elaborated a little more on that. Again, I’m not inclined to take the word of “Federal Agents”. Do they mean that he never traveled to Ukraine on a commercial flight? Remember, he used to fly on Air Force 2 with his dad quite a bit too. And that’s an interesting formulation: “never travelled to Ukraine”. Why didn’t they say “never been in Ukraine”. Maybe he stopped in Ukraine while “traveling” to some other destination.
And then again, maybe he has never been in Ukraine. Maybe the informant misheard where Biden was surveiled. Or maybe he is lying. By the way, if Hunter Biden has never been in Ukraine, that makes his position on the board of directors of Burisma even more suspicious, does it not.
In any event, you act as if the FBI is more trustworthy than a foreign intelligence service. They aren’t. They are protectors of their patron regime, same as the FSB is of theirs.
By the way – let’s clear something up – are you an American citizen? A natural born American citizen living in America? You opine a lot on this country, so it would be useful to know what your relation to it is. You certainly seem to care deeply about Ukraine. So much so that you’re all in on the side of Team Biden, America’s own Borgia family.
I don't give a damn what they think, nor do I want a seat at their table. I want to turn the table over and spit on them as I walk out of the room.Replies: @Reg Cæsar
Thirty years of publishing material, under his real name, that calls them to account makes your statement rather questionable. Were you even alive when he started, in the previous century?
By the way, “gentile”, like “Anglo”, is an outsider’s insult.
What would describe the same things, but without the insult? “Non-jew”? “English”?Replies: @Reg Cæsar
As always you miss the point. The FBI pretends to believe everything that is anti-Trump, and nothing that is anti-Biden.
Again, you prove the point. Everything the FBI claims is based on classified material — i.e., hidden and unverifiable information. Thus, you are relying solely on your subjective faith in their honesty. Whereas history shows that they are professional liars because they know they can get away with it.
We have mounting problems here at home we need to focus on. We need to end the trillion dollar a year deficits. We need to fix the broken immigration system. We need to take control of the education system away from the wokesters. We need to look for new energy sources to maintain our standard of living, not spend time blowing up pipelines over in Europe. Trying to figure out who the good guys are in every ethnic or religious feud on the planet so we can send them money is very low on the list of what we should be doing.Replies: @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Joe Stalin, @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon, @HA, @Brutusale
By contrast, the Han had a good set up on paper: huge population, high population density, relatively high technical achievement. Yet for centuries, primitive steppe barbarians—Mongols, Manchu, whoever—kept riding in and taking over. And both then and now, everyone called that "China".
Maybe it's a semantic thing or a different concept of history, but still, it is striking how expansive and power-projectionist the inauspiciously situated Romans were, while the well-situated Han have had to weather era after era of foreign subjection.
I mean, I was just curious, since you looked into comparative ancient militaries, if, despite their similarities and similar outperformance over their neighbors, there was some other difference that explained Rome's and China's divergent fates?Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @J.Ross
Huh? They were at the center of the aptly-named Mediterranean. All of which they controlled at their height. Rome, like Athens before her, was the London of her day. Right place at the right time. The auspices were ideal!
The Chinese are more inward-looking. They’ve occasionally conquered their neighbors– East Turkestan, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, North Korea, Taiwan– but mostly for defensive purposes. Their cultural influence on these and other neighbors, however, has been immense. Just like Athens and Rome’s. And London’s.
The Mediterranean (Latin word) only became the 'Middle'-of-the-World Mare because the Romans made it so by laboriously conquering everything around it. And even then they were still inferior sailors compared to the Greeks, Phoenicians, and Arabs.
Italy itself was not especially good land: too hilly and rocky. Gaul was better. Egypt was more fruitful. Sicily was more cultivated. Iberia, Anatolia, and North Africa held as much promise as the Italian boot. Yet the buckle on the boot at Rome took over the whole shebang and named the water in the middle of it Medi-.I mean, that's my explanation too, and the slightly derisive Western one historically. Still, I wanted to know if Ross had hit upon anything else.Replies: @Colin Wright
https://youtu.be/YWyCCJ6B2WE?si=MWNmGoF9d-cGhQbm Champions of the free market have always been aware and critical of capitalist capture of the state.Replies: @Reg Cæsar
When Ted Kennedy pushed airline deregulation in the late 1970s (not the least to appear more “centrist” in his upcoming run against Carter), who was among his chief opponents? Why, none other than Juan Terry Trippe, the founder and CEO of Pan Am. They had it cushy under regulation. Trippe was about as “free market” as he was Hispanic. In name only, if even that.
Another one requiring a fix.
I guess releasing these products to the general public is one way of testing them. If these goofs are fixed people will eventually forget about them.
I got a “something went wrong” message trying to view the picture.
That sounds about right but you can find a lot of examples because it’s an effective strategy for revolutionaries to sell themselves as the purer and unadulterated version of the establishment. Before Mo there was Jesus, who wanted to sweep away the then-recent rabbinical layer of Judaism. Before Jesus there was King Josiah who (as far as anyone can tell) reinstituted an older austere monotheism.
And of course guys like Obama go around saying they’re finally making America live up to its founding principles.
https://chroniclesmagazine.org/category/columns/principalities-powers/
And that specific piece.
https://chroniclesmagazine.org/columns/principalities-powers/capitalism-the-enemy/
This caught my eye. Thanks.Replies: @Almost Missouri
I don’t want to disagree with Sam Francis, but…
Since at least the Late Obama Age, the enemies of tradition have been far from being able “to enlist simplicity and clearness on their side”. The ever-shifting Progressive Stack, intersectionality, DEI, transgenderism (the belief propounded by atheists that their souls are stuck in the wrong bodies), Celebration Parallax: the Left is a Gordian Knot of absurdities and self-contradictions. Yet somehow it keeps triumphing. So maybe it is not because of “simplicity and clearness” after all.
Similarly,
Given that elected officials are by definition elected for their ability to vote-lust, yet this particular wheeze not only brought no new votes but lost them plenty of old votes, maybe they didn’t do it out of vote-lust after all?
And, since this is iSteve, take not an ancient HBD digression askance:
Has DNA analysis borne this out? Not that ancient proprietors did not import slaves, but that the slaves replaced the Romans? I thought DNA analysis showed the Italians to have remained remarkably Italian through all their travails … at least until Merkel’s Mistake.
On the other hand, this is correct:
and was appreciated by Marx, who therefore welcomed capitalism in medieval economies as what he saw as a necessary precursor to Communism. (I’m anti-Marxist, but it still amazes me how many self-proclaimed Marxists, Communists, etc. have no idea what Marx actually said. That pro-capitalists are ignorant of one of the few things Marx was right about is less surprising.)
And—Francis again—this was certainly prophetic:
I dunno, I think this is pretty "simple and clear"...
I used to roll up,
And say This is a hold-up!
Don't act funny,
Keep still, and don't
Move nuffin but da money.
-- Eric B and Rakim, "Paid in Full"
That's pretty much all the Left philosophy you need to know, right there. The rest is commentary.Replies: @Almost Missouri
“Everything the FBI claims is based on classified material — i.e., hidden and unverifiable information. Thus, you are relying solely on your subjective faith in their honesty.”
You had no problem believing any of it when Biden was in their crosshairs. Even now, Trump voters are grasping at straws to keep it alive. Oh yeah, that’s because you claim that the “FBI pretends to believe everything that is anti-Trump, and nothing that is anti-Biden.” Which, let me see if I got this right –means you get to ignore whatever they say against Trump and fixate on whatever they have against Biden, right? So convenient! And what’s your evidence for this heads-Trump-loses-tails-anyone-else-wins setup that Trump has to deal with regarding the FBI? Oh, right you have none. You pulled it out of your backside like some “information” about Hunter going to Ukraine. As I noted earlier, the FBI source for the Steele dossier was similarly indicted for lying to the FBI, so even though he was anti-Trump, so to speak, he wasn’t believed. Such a shame when facts gets in the way of a pretty conspiracy theory. The only problem with that case is that according to those who actually dealt with the dirt being peddled, the source was upfront about the fact that he was dishing rumors.
If it turns out Smirnov was likewise just relating “rumors” about Hunter being in Ukraine, he may get off as well. (If he agrees to cooperate with feds regarding his Kremlin masters, that’s actually a likely possibility, even if everything he said was a lie, but that has little to do with whether he’s pro or anti Trump.)
Likewise, “a former FBI lawyer pleaded guilty [back in 2020] to altering a document related to the secret surveillance of a former Trump campaign adviser during the Russia investigation”, which wouldn’t have happened if he wasn’t charged in the first place. So even if you want to pretend that the FBI is all about nailing Trump and only Trump, it seems they sometimes have a tough go of it, and can’t “get away with it” like you desperately want to believe. For the record, I’d have no problem with the FBI adopting a stink-eye when it comes to someone as deeply in bed with Putin as Trump is (hey, just because it’s a rumor doesn’t mean it isn’t true, right?) but so far, the evidence supports my rumors a lot more than it supports yours.
I stand by my theory that your screaming ninny tantrums about how the FBI is the worst group of people ever — even when they’re head to head against KGB stooges — are really just pathetic little drama-queen antics and it’s time to admit that, in the grand scheme of things, you’ve actually got it pretty good as far as overlords go, whereas the ones threatening to bring them down at present have even more dirt on their hands, so be careful about what you wish for. Stick with passing off other people’s jokes as your own and other lowlife behavior like that — wasn’t that trashy and dishonest enough?
You neglected to mention the coda to that prosecution:That of course was under the new Biden administration. They prosecuted just one guy and let him off with a slap on the wrist.Right - it is utterly impossible that commenter Hypnotoad666 might have arrived at that observation himself, independently of Gary Gulman. How many people in the current fractured media environment have even heard of Gary Gulman? I never had until just now.
Maybe you just impute your own trashiness and dishonesty to others.
What are you talking about? Biden was NEVER in their crosshairs. The entire time the system has seen to it that the Bidens escape culpability for their crimes. In all likelihood, that is why the special counsel indicted their informant.Replies: @HA
Jews refer to intermarriage as The Silent Holocaust.
Is a holocaust anti-Jewish/anti-White?
The Chinese are more inward-looking. They've occasionally conquered their neighbors-- East Turkestan, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, North Korea, Taiwan-- but mostly for defensive purposes. Their cultural influence on these and other neighbors, however, has been immense. Just like Athens and Rome's. And London's.Replies: @Almost Missouri
Yet they were terrible sailors. They got pasted in their early conflicts with sea-going Phoenicians because of it. They only finally overcame Carthage by adapting land infantry tactics to naval warfare: ramming the enemy ships and lowering a ramp onto it so they can storm the enemy boat infantry-style. That and invading the enemy’s home ground.
The Mediterranean (Latin word) only became the ‘Middle’-of-the-World Mare because the Romans made it so by laboriously conquering everything around it. And even then they were still inferior sailors compared to the Greeks, Phoenicians, and Arabs.
Italy itself was not especially good land: too hilly and rocky. Gaul was better. Egypt was more fruitful. Sicily was more cultivated. Iberia, Anatolia, and North Africa held as much promise as the Italian boot. Yet the buckle on the boot at Rome took over the whole shebang and named the water in the middle of it Medi-.
I mean, that’s my explanation too, and the slightly derisive Western one historically. Still, I wanted to know if Ross had hit upon anything else.
Rome built a third.
Another Roman story. A Roman general was captured by the Carthaginians, who paroled him to take their peace terms to Rome, knowing he would honor his parole and return, and so would presumably present their terms fairly.
Dude presented the terms before the Senate, argued forcefully against accepting them, and then returned to the Carthaginians, who of course crucified him, as he knew they would.
They're hard to relate to. In a sense that doesn't apply to medieval Europeans or almost anyone around today, they're alien to us. It can get to be like reading about the Aztecs or somebody.Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Twinkie
Sure, the DoJ prosecutes one single DoJ employee for phonying up evidence as part of their “Get Trump” campaign. And they did this while Trump was President and they still, nominally, answered to him as their boss.
You neglected to mention the coda to that prosecution:
That of course was under the new Biden administration. They prosecuted just one guy and let him off with a slap on the wrist.
Right – it is utterly impossible that commenter Hypnotoad666 might have arrived at that observation himself, independently of Gary Gulman. How many people in the current fractured media environment have even heard of Gary Gulman? I never had until just now.
Maybe you just impute your own trashiness and dishonesty to others.
As for the Latin works, in the West it was more of a discontinuity in tradition. Monks weren't particularly interested in pagan writings or Roman chronicles. Books were lost, deteriorated and/or not copied, because parchments and paper were expensive.
BTW, in the East there were also copies of Latin Roman authors, Byzantium being after all the Roman Empire.Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Constantinople#Sack_of_Constantinople
There was a discontinuity in the West because Vandals and Goths sacked and plundered Rome. How is it different when pagan Germans do it versus Mohammedans?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(410)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(455)
unitariansMohammedans did not, and never will.Though this guy is working on it:https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/UsamaDakdokReplies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three KingdomsBy the time the Vandals and the Goths invaded the empire, they were already Christian, if you consider Arianism a Christian heresy.
They later accepted the Divinity of Jesus . Moreover , they had lived side by side with Romans for centuries. So, it's different.Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
Proponents of continuing to send money to the Ukraine are becoming pretty desperate. They are aware support for such efforts is slowly declining among the American public. Americans increasingly do not see Putin as the new Hitler. They are slowly coming to the conclusion that the Ukraine is like Vietnam or Afghanistan, places that we left and nothing bad happened to us afterwards.
We have mounting problems here at home we need to focus on. We need to end the trillion dollar a year deficits. We need to fix the broken immigration system. We need to take control of the education system away from the wokesters. We need to look for new energy sources to maintain our standard of living, not spend time blowing up pipelines over in Europe. Trying to figure out who the good guys are in every ethnic or religious feud on the planet so we can send them money is very low on the list of what we should be doing.
Our ability for the US gov to spend $ on ANYTHING is dependent on the US $ remaining the world's reserve currency. If the US gov was pay as you go then it would have to shrink tremendously. Ukraine is not important in and of itself but because it is the front line of the Chinese/Russian/Iranian plan to knock the US off of its perch. The only thing worse than being the global hegemon is NOT being the global hegemon.Replies: @Colin Wright, @James B. Shearer, @The Germ Theory of Disease
https://twitter.com/Darthprophet/status/1761510407703793753
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/playing-fire-zelensky-questions-trumps-patriotism-cnn-interviewReplies: @HA
We have mounting problems here at home we need to focus on. We need to end the trillion dollar a year deficits. We need to fix the broken immigration system. We need to take control of the education system away from the wokesters. We need to look for new energy sources to maintain our standard of living, not spend time blowing up pipelines over in Europe. Trying to figure out who the good guys are in every ethnic or religious feud on the planet so we can send them money is very low on the list of what we should be doing.Replies: @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Joe Stalin, @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon, @HA, @Brutusale
Yes, it’s bad enough that they’re funnelling money to the blood-soaked cokehead of Kiev and themselves, but if they were securing the border, unwrecking education, restoring traffic law, and fixing the economy, they could probably get away with their Russia obsession.
By contrast, the Han had a good set up on paper: huge population, high population density, relatively high technical achievement. Yet for centuries, primitive steppe barbarians—Mongols, Manchu, whoever—kept riding in and taking over. And both then and now, everyone called that "China".
Maybe it's a semantic thing or a different concept of history, but still, it is striking how expansive and power-projectionist the inauspiciously situated Romans were, while the well-situated Han have had to weather era after era of foreign subjection.
I mean, I was just curious, since you looked into comparative ancient militaries, if, despite their similarities and similar outperformance over their neighbors, there was some other difference that explained Rome's and China's divergent fates?Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @J.Ross
I was surprised by some of the similarities but ultimately these are different geographies and cultures so the divergence is inevitable and not noteworthy. There is a fantastic movie waiting to be shot in which Rome and China meet.
We have mounting problems here at home we need to focus on. We need to end the trillion dollar a year deficits. We need to fix the broken immigration system. We need to take control of the education system away from the wokesters. We need to look for new energy sources to maintain our standard of living, not spend time blowing up pipelines over in Europe. Trying to figure out who the good guys are in every ethnic or religious feud on the planet so we can send them money is very low on the list of what we should be doing.Replies: @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Joe Stalin, @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon, @HA, @Brutusale
As evidenced by our own hysterical-idiot Ukraine booster, “HA”.
Please explain.
It was a mistake. A world historical mistake.
It was not, however, a crime. It didn’t have the awareness to be a crime.
Your theory is confounded by the presence of jewish coercion.
Restaurants invariably use the cheapest ingredients available.
Actually you can just make them by using whatever you use for a meatloaf mix and rolling it into balls, so there doesn't have to be a lot of beef. I often use oatmeal ground into a flour in a coffee bean grinder as a filler.Replies: @Jack D
You are missing the point. Large meatballs of any sort of meat were never cooked in a tomato sauce and served with dried pasta in Italy. This dish first appeared in America where a lb. or two of ground meat was within the budget of even an Italian immigrant ditch digger.
Here is a picture of what is perhaps the Italian ancestor of the American dish. The meatballs are the size of chickpeas and you can bet that especially in a peasant household each diner would get a few of these meatballs (if they could afford this dish at all) and lots of pasta.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabada_asturianaReplies: @Jack D
We have mounting problems here at home we need to focus on. We need to end the trillion dollar a year deficits. We need to fix the broken immigration system. We need to take control of the education system away from the wokesters. We need to look for new energy sources to maintain our standard of living, not spend time blowing up pipelines over in Europe. Trying to figure out who the good guys are in every ethnic or religious feud on the planet so we can send them money is very low on the list of what we should be doing.Replies: @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Joe Stalin, @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon, @HA, @Brutusale
https://twitter.com/GloOouD/status/1761799108996616537
In the Philosophical canon, Murray only has three categories: Western, Indian, and Chinese. Of the three, I would agree that Western is the best fit.
Murray does have an Arabic (actually Arabic & Persian) category for Literature. If he gave a reason for why he didn't do this for philosophy, or make a solely Persian category, I don't recall. Maybe just not enough figures to warrant it.Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
He explained in Chapter 11– to avoid being perceived as Eurocentric he intentionally carved out categories for Arabs, Indians, Chinese and Japanese. If you just have a category just for “Swedish literature”, obvious you won’t shortchange Swedes. But even accounting for that Euro accomplishments still dwarved others.
For example he mentioned a lot of this
But there were no Chinese mathematicians he listed as significant– Chinese math discoveries were more engineering-oriented and not anything that constitute a paradigm like Euclid’s Elements and feed off each other. I don’t see any problems with his methodology.
This is what he gives as Jewish accomplishment overrepresentation by country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvay_Conference
You can see that in a convene of 20th century physicsts (about a third Jewish)
Are we going to concede that Jews all the sudden became 20 times more brilliant than French and Germans?
I don’t think so, there was a special set of circumstance that allowed for Jewish accomplishments– on the foundation of European institutions, just like modern European accomplishments were based on the foundation of Greco-Romans (with contribution from Muslims). Once those accomplishments took off it did so exponentially.
Does BLM give a shit about saving any black lives?Replies: @Anonymous
Then “poking in the eye” was an inappropriate choice of term. The term implies some gratuitousness, or that the action is an end in itself.
What you posit suggests the action is a means to an end.
We have mounting problems here at home we need to focus on. We need to end the trillion dollar a year deficits. We need to fix the broken immigration system. We need to take control of the education system away from the wokesters. We need to look for new energy sources to maintain our standard of living, not spend time blowing up pipelines over in Europe. Trying to figure out who the good guys are in every ethnic or religious feud on the planet so we can send them money is very low on the list of what we should be doing.Replies: @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Joe Stalin, @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon, @HA, @Brutusale
I can always think of “better” ways to spend $. The US gov can walk and chew gum at the same time. It’s not like there is some fixed budget where if you don’t spend a $ on Ukraine you can spend it on schools instead. It doesn’t work that way.
Our ability for the US gov to spend $ on ANYTHING is dependent on the US $ remaining the world’s reserve currency. If the US gov was pay as you go then it would have to shrink tremendously. Ukraine is not important in and of itself but because it is the front line of the Chinese/Russian/Iranian plan to knock the US off of its perch. The only thing worse than being the global hegemon is NOT being the global hegemon.
I don't think that is why Putin invaded Ukraine.Replies: @Jack D
During the Cold War, it used to be said in some circles that strategically, the Russians were born chess players and the Americans were born poker players. It was assumed that intellectually, chess was the superior game until some wag pointed out that strategically, poker is superior because in chess both sides can see all the pieces on the board but in poker, your opponent cannot see what cards you're holding.
The Mediterranean (Latin word) only became the 'Middle'-of-the-World Mare because the Romans made it so by laboriously conquering everything around it. And even then they were still inferior sailors compared to the Greeks, Phoenicians, and Arabs.
Italy itself was not especially good land: too hilly and rocky. Gaul was better. Egypt was more fruitful. Sicily was more cultivated. Iberia, Anatolia, and North Africa held as much promise as the Italian boot. Yet the buckle on the boot at Rome took over the whole shebang and named the water in the middle of it Medi-.I mean, that's my explanation too, and the slightly derisive Western one historically. Still, I wanted to know if Ross had hit upon anything else.Replies: @Colin Wright
Stubbornness was their forte. If at first, you don’t succeed, try, try again. If memory serves, they kept building fleets to fight the Carthaginians. The Carthaginians wiped out two, inflicting horrific losses on Roman manhood.
Rome built a third.
Another Roman story. A Roman general was captured by the Carthaginians, who paroled him to take their peace terms to Rome, knowing he would honor his parole and return, and so would presumably present their terms fairly.
Dude presented the terms before the Senate, argued forcefully against accepting them, and then returned to the Carthaginians, who of course crucified him, as he knew they would.
They’re hard to relate to. In a sense that doesn’t apply to medieval Europeans or almost anyone around today, they’re alien to us. It can get to be like reading about the Aztecs or somebody.
Spared neither land nor gold,
Nor son nor wife, nor limb nor life,
In the brave days of old.
XXXII
Then none was for a party;
Then all were for the state;
Then the great man helped the poor,
And the poor man loved the great:
Then lands were fairly portioned;
Then spoils were fairly sold:
The Romans were like brothers
In the brave days of old.
XXXIII
Now Roman is to Roman
More hateful than a foe,
And the Tribunes beard the high,
And the Fathers grind the low.
As we wax hot in faction,
In battle we wax cold:
Wherefore men fight not as they fought
In the brave days of old.
—Thomas Babington MacAuley
Reminds me of something or other . . .Replies: @BB753
We tend to overlook these vast differences between us and them. Hollywood doesn't help either.
All I can say, thank God for Chirst and the Christianization of Europe.
Chattel slavery is a wonderful custom! Just not for me or my family, thankyouverymuch.
Race-based chattel slavery, terrific! Although me and my co-ethnics will pass.
Many such institutions, throughout history. Press gangs, cannibalism, ruinous taxation, etc. I think their decline over time is a good thing. Silly me.Replies: @Anonymous
If you really cared about humanity, you would be spending more time trying to stop the Jews’ massacres of Palestinians.
As noted above, Africans that were brought to the US territory have benefited.
JFC, it was a crime against humanity, with both blacks and whites to blame for the peddling of flesh. And, yes, it had a horrific effect on blacks. Are you truly this dense?Replies: @Anonymous
Blacks have benefited enormously from so-called slavery in the United States. It stands as probably the greatest benefit given by one race (Whites) to another (Blacks) in the history of mankind.
I can't tell if this is the same (deranged) anony I had to correct before, or someone else. Regardless, the fact of the matter is that a free people were ripped from their homeland against their will. Families were separated. Young girls were raped. Any normal person would find this course of action to be cruel, wicked, and evil. There was a patent interest by slave owners to perpetuate a system that lined their pockets while attempting to justify their brutal treatment by way of "human improvement", that slaves were somehow living in a world of cheerfulness and contentment.Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
You wound me, sir, and force me to point out the Schoolhouse Rock depicted master Chubby Checker as white with red hair. What is YOUR function?
NB: autocorrect changed “retired” to “refried” which might be better…
Here is a picture of what is perhaps the Italian ancestor of the American dish. The meatballs are the size of chickpeas and you can bet that especially in a peasant household each diner would get a few of these meatballs (if they could afford this dish at all) and lots of pasta.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Spaghetti_alla_chitarra_con_pallottine_%28Teramo%29.jpgReplies: @YetAnotherAnon
We were in Asturias a few years ago where the national dish is basically bean stew with a few bits of meat in it. Very tasty, but not exactly the Roast Beef Of Old England.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabada_asturiana
In the past, people couldn't afford to eat big steaks, especially outside of the US (and Argentina) where beef was plentiful. A lot of beef based American "ethnic" dishes such as Italian meatballs, corned beef sandwiches, etc. were more or less unknown in their "home" countries because no one could afford to eat that much meat at one sitting except maybe a couple of times per year at a big holiday or a wedding. America was like Christmas every day.
My mother said that for her family of 8 in Poland, my grandmother would buy a kilo of beef on the bone, say 1/2 bone and 1/2 meat, which works out to 2 oz. of meat per person. This would get cooked into a soup and everyone would get a little morsel of meat in their soup.Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Colin Wright, @Anonymous
It varied. It’s been calculated that in Florence, in the decades after the Black Death nicely solved any problems with over-population, the average Florentine ate eight ounces of meat a day — which is considerably more than I eat.
To cite another, less spectacular example, an eighteenth-century traveler noted that while the other material and social conditions of his life was horrible, the average Russian peasant ate a lot better than his French counterpart.
I suspect you’re right about a lot of ethnic foods — I’m mystified as to how beef could possibly have been a staple in Korea, for example. However, one can’t just assume everyone was living in some sort of Malthusian dystopia all the time. For one thing, miscellaneous famines, plagues, genocidal conquerors, and whatever would logically have meant several generations of relative abundance for the survivors.
See those lucky sods in ca. 1400 ad Florence or whenever it was. No doubt a nice outbreak of the Black Death meant plenty of Kielbasa for the next few generations of Poles.
In the past, people couldn't afford to eat big steaks, especially outside of the US (and Argentina) where beef was plentiful. A lot of beef based American "ethnic" dishes such as Italian meatballs, corned beef sandwiches, etc. were more or less unknown in their "home" countries because no one could afford to eat that much meat at one sitting except maybe a couple of times per year at a big holiday or a wedding. America was like Christmas every day.
My mother said that for her family of 8 in Poland, my grandmother would buy a kilo of beef on the bone, say 1/2 bone and 1/2 meat, which works out to 2 oz. of meat per person. This would get cooked into a soup and everyone would get a little morsel of meat in their soup.Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Colin Wright, @Anonymous
What did people eat for protein instead of meat?
We have mounting problems here at home we need to focus on. We need to end the trillion dollar a year deficits. We need to fix the broken immigration system. We need to take control of the education system away from the wokesters. We need to look for new energy sources to maintain our standard of living, not spend time blowing up pipelines over in Europe. Trying to figure out who the good guys are in every ethnic or religious feud on the planet so we can send them money is very low on the list of what we should be doing.Replies: @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Joe Stalin, @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon, @HA, @Brutusale
If this video is kosher then the recruiters are at last hitting the jeunesse doree of Kiev. On the other hand I imagine the oligarch kids are safe overseas.
https://twitter.com/Darthprophet/status/1761510407703793753
Is is? (They are?) What is your basis for saying so?
What would describe the same things, but without the insult? “Non-jew”? “English”?
Our ability for the US gov to spend $ on ANYTHING is dependent on the US $ remaining the world's reserve currency. If the US gov was pay as you go then it would have to shrink tremendously. Ukraine is not important in and of itself but because it is the front line of the Chinese/Russian/Iranian plan to knock the US off of its perch. The only thing worse than being the global hegemon is NOT being the global hegemon.Replies: @Colin Wright, @James B. Shearer, @The Germ Theory of Disease
This would seem to be a back-handed admission that maybe the Ukraine isn’t such a great cause in and of itself after all.
I take that we really could have foxed that Sino-Russian-Iranian monolith and its dastardly scheme if we had just refrained from baiting Putin into attacking. But then, whatever would Biden have had to talk about at his first State-of-the-Union Address?
Remember all those Ukrainian flag lapel pins? It would be amusing if it could be shown they were ordered before Russia attacked.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(410)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(455)Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Hypnotoad666, @BB753
Because over time, the pagans joined our side, and the
unitariansMohammedans did not, and never will.Though this guy is working on it:
https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/UsamaDakdok
I have to say, after 270-someodd comments, I think this thing is getting seriously overblown. To me, it doesn’t look like some nefarious plot to erase white people from history. It looks like a severe limitation in the software combined with a lack of foresight on the part of Google. It being the Current Year, it was inevitable that the image-generator was going to be programmed to display a diverse population whenever a human image was called for, but nobody at Google had the imagination to realize the many comical situations this would produce, nor is the program actually sophisticated enough to provide historically accurate imagery from just a short natural language prompt. In other words, it is a very limited tool being deployed by very limited people. Not much else to see here.
Oh it is intentional, without a doubt. Our local hypercreative Europeans suffering fainting spells viz Gemini's hilarious images surely, surely can program their own AI to depict fantastical images of White Excellence in, say, cornerback or heavyweight prizefighter, whathaveyou. Lots of high-IQ white fellas round here: learn to code and get 'er dun!
RegardingThat elicited this response:From Ammar Moussa, director of rapid response for the Biden campaign.
So she/him/it/ { -can't we just shorten all this to shite?} obviously wants Trump to win.
https://www.rt.com/news/593096-trump-beats-haley-primary/Replies: @Dennis Dale
At this point I want to see Trump win not to stick it to the progs, but to the vast boomer class of respectable “conservatives” as represented by Charles Murray, who prefer the dismantling of the American republic to social opprobrium. If the guy is going to abandon Fish Town because he thinks Trump is icky then there’s no amount of anguish that isn’t well deserved.
It’s doubly ironic that Murray thought he longed for an older America where class was not important and the local auto mechanic was not so far removed from his doctor in the community. Yet here he is cucking out because he’s afraid to be associated with the mechanic, lest the doctor stop speaking to him.
And he could just stay out of it.
(I just wonder what people of an advanced age are saving themselves from with this surrender).
Respectfully, “noticing” is nothing if it doesn’t lead to action. Without subsequent action “noticing” is sanctioning.
What good is it to be a proverbial frog that says: "I'm so smart I am totally noticing that this pot is getting hotter. Behold my noticing skills!"Replies: @Dennis Dale
I feel like we can all relateEssen Hauptbahnhof Before and After WWII :(
The train station of Debrecen before and after WWII(What is it with Reddit and images?)
“Martin Luther was a Western Muhammad; Protestantism is a Western Islam.”
Would you be willing to provide an explanation?
I would like to understand your context. Thanks.
The work is magisterial and, depending on how much you want to read, would be quite informative with respect to your request.Replies: @Corvinus
HA, you serve a valuable service as the low-IQ Court Jester of iSteve. All the informed, analytical posts on this site look better against the foil of your incoherent blather.
The fact that a giant speedometer sign is redundant of the thing you’ve already got on your dashboard is not exactly a difficult observation. I didn’t have to steal something so obvious from some comic I’ve never heard of. But I can see why you’d believe that thinking has to be borrowed from others, since you are just an internet phrase aggregator.
This portrait is real. It's not made up by AI. There really is a black guy standing next to Washington. He's not another general. He's Washington's property. But he is really there:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1a/George_Washington_by_John_Trumbull_%281780%29.jpg
But the UK had essentially zero blacks prior to 1948 so anything set before 1948 that includes blacks is 99% likely to be a lie. Nowadays it's called "diverse casting" or something but what it is is a lie and as time goes on we can see that it's not a harmless lie or what used to be called a "white lie".Replies: @Gordo, @Hypnotoad666, @AnotherDad
Jack you’ve posted several comments reminding me that blacks have been in America from “day 1”. (Weird?)
But you are actually making precisely my point. Alone among Western nations America has had a large black population. The whole “Negro question” has been an American thing … forever. No other white nations were obsessed with blacks … because they didn’t have a bunch of blacks.
Post 1945 America dominated the West–politically and militarily–and with 3X the population of the rest of the Anglosphere dominated it politically, academically, culturally. As you noted they had essentially zero blacks until 1948, but in a fit of imperial arrogance–and some cheap labor shilling greed–allowed immigration of commonwealth randos. And then–shockingly diversity created not joy but contention–they stupidly aped the minoritarian policies from America. We get a “Civil Rights Act”, they get a “Racial Relations Act”. We get another “Civil Rights Act”, they get another “Racial Relations Act”.
The big difference–at least peering over from America–seems to be that the Brits:
a) lack a real constitution so the super-state has had an easier time rolling out totalitarian thought police
b) have a state media; so the BBC just shovels out the super-state’s diversity propaganda; (sort of like if we had Democratic Party TV channel)
But you’ll note that even though the Brits have about twice as many South Asians, than blacks–7% vs. 3.5%–their “diversity” casting–including a-historical diversity–is still much more about “blacks!!!”
Why … because they have imbibed this “blacks!!!” obsession from America.
The passengers of the Empire Windrush were purely hustlers and grifters chancing some discounted boat tickets from an enterprising agent wishing to fill otherwise empty berths.
On arrival in the UK, the UK 'Minister of Labor' pleaded with them to go home. After wise he publicly declared 'Don't worry, they won't last a single English winter' (!!!!).
Hubris to end all hubris.Replies: @Jack D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(410)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(455)Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Hypnotoad666, @BB753
There is a good case that the Gothic Kingdom in Italy fully continued Roman culture. And that it was actually Justinian’s reconquista via the Gothic Wars (plus some plagues) in the 6th Century that trashed Italy and the city of Rome beyond repair, putting the West into the Dark Ages.
Luther complained about some graft, but began centuries of horrors and wars, often in the name of hypocrisies that would make the most venal indulgence seller blush, a period of modern elites that would make even a Borgia grimace.
The conceit of the Enlightenment is to talk about irrationality and hypocrisy of the Middle Ages, like Protestants talk about Catholics as non-Christians, just massive amounts of projections.
I would like to understand your context. Thanks.Replies: @Ennui, @Intelligent Dasein
Luther cheered for the Ottoman invasion of Eastern Europe. When he wasn’t making fart jokes from the pulpit, he was sneering about the calamity faced by the Hapsburgs. If hundreds of Christian villagers were conquered and put into slavery, oh well. My man had a conversion experience. All about the feels, that one. Probably some sort of manic depressive. To bad they didn’t have meds back then.
Considering there was a schism within the Church, that is not surprising. Religious freedom is paramount.
"When he wasn’t making fart jokes from the pulpit"
Citations required.
"If hundreds of Christian villagers were conquered and put into slavery, oh well."
And if Protestants had been butchered--men, women, and children--you would be gleeful in that outcome. It's a fight over faith. Been that way for centuries.Replies: @Ennui
And he could just stay out of it.(I just wonder what people of an advanced age are saving themselves from with this surrender).Respectfully, "noticing" is nothing if it doesn't lead to action. Without subsequent action "noticing" is sanctioning.Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Dennis Dale, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar
Excellent point and turn of phrase!
What good is it to be a proverbial frog that says: “I’m so smart I am totally noticing that this pot is getting hotter. Behold my noticing skills!”
We have mounting problems here at home we need to focus on. We need to end the trillion dollar a year deficits. We need to fix the broken immigration system. We need to take control of the education system away from the wokesters. We need to look for new energy sources to maintain our standard of living, not spend time blowing up pipelines over in Europe. Trying to figure out who the good guys are in every ethnic or religious feud on the planet so we can send them money is very low on the list of what we should be doing.Replies: @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Joe Stalin, @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon, @HA, @Brutusale
“Americans increasingly do not see Putin as the new Hitler.”
He doesn’t have to be Hitler to be someone who wishes all of us harm, and is capable of inflicting it — and that includes the people who are cheering on him and his stooges. Electing someone as deeply embedded in (or even just stupidly indifferent to) the Russian deep state as Trump is — based on these recent Smirnov allegations, if nothing else, though there’s plenty more to that rap sheet at this point — will do zilch to advance the future of the US and do much to set them back. That won’t change if Ukraine falls. It will just mean that when Putin passes the point where even Trumpists admit he’s gone too far, it will be far more difficult and costlier, and I daresay bloodier, to push him back.
As for — yet again — spinning this broken record about how Ukraine somehow prevents you from fixing America’s problems with immigration, infrastructure, or anything else, that would be a lot more believable if the likes of you weren’t such blatant hypocrites about it.
Except he is not. Europe has a GDP several times that of Russia and can easily afford militaries to fend off Russia. There is no reason for American taxpayers to pick up the tab.
I am confident we will eventually end our assistance to the Ukraine. I am old enough to have seen this story play out before with Vietnam and Afghanistan. When we exit this quagmire, I am sure you will be fussing and fuming about it but there will be nothing you can do about it. However, if you want to vote for Biden to keep Trump out of office in order to try to delay the inevitable go right ahead. Why don't you declare your support for Biden right now?Replies: @HA, @Mr. Anon
I don’t understand anything you wrote. I’m concerned, you are either having a mild stroke or have access to the internet in an inebriated state. Or is it because English isn’t your first tongue, you having grown up speaking that peculiar dialect of Russian which foolishly claims status as a separate national language.
In the midst of your musings about Gym and Billy and who touched Billy, I gather you think Hunter Biden isn’t all that bad (says something about you, hoss). Lots of words, just keep it simple, your message, as always, is give more money to the Ukraine.(I edited to add “the” in front of the Ukraine, the correct English article for that distinct borderland province)
What good is it to be a proverbial frog that says: "I'm so smart I am totally noticing that this pot is getting hotter. Behold my noticing skills!"Replies: @Dennis Dale
You inspired me to make a meme
And he could just stay out of it.(I just wonder what people of an advanced age are saving themselves from with this surrender).Respectfully, "noticing" is nothing if it doesn't lead to action. Without subsequent action "noticing" is sanctioning.Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Dennis Dale, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar
–“saving themselves for” not “from”.
“HA, you serve a valuable service as the low-IQ Court Jester of iSteve. All the informed, analytical posts on this site look better against the foil of your incoherent blather.”
No projection there, whatsoever, I’m sure. Anyway, it gets the point across better than those who insist they ignore me even as they seem aware enough of what I write to keep replying to it. Maybe it’s telepathy or something.
Now, I’m just someone who blathers “low-IQ” incoherence, and yet, my comments are nonetheless a “useful service” to the extent that informed and analytical posts are thereby better appreciated, or something like that. I guess that you’ve thought this through to where it actually makes sense to you, somehow or other, but if so, you’re the wrong person to be accusing others of incoherence. Or else, if that was an attempt to be funny using your own material, sadly, it didn’t work nearly as well as when you lifting from others.
You keep hurling insults at us, implying that we are dummies. So why do you reply to us?
You are making arguments here. We are rebutting them. That is how arguments work. No, I don't care what you think. I care what other people think. There are some people here I think I can persuade. You are not one of them. You are a lost cause. But perhaps I can persuade other people here that you are full of s**t. I want them to agree with me, not you.
Get it now, moron?Replies: @HA
While looking I ran across this which seemed worth sharing (for the reviews at the link).
Revealing Eden (Save the Pearls #1)
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/12393909The Amazon reviews are fun as well. The punchline there is that used hardbacks start at $35.Replies: @J.Ross, @al gore rhythms, @Fatigued
It sounds to me like “Hold Back This Day”. People were blended to get a right in the middle skin color. Religions were all mixed together also.
And he could just stay out of it.(I just wonder what people of an advanced age are saving themselves from with this surrender).Respectfully, "noticing" is nothing if it doesn't lead to action. Without subsequent action "noticing" is sanctioning.Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Dennis Dale, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar
It’s not ironic–did you even read Coming Apart? Murray never wrote that Fishtown was right about everything: one of the main messages of the book is that Fishtowners are increasingly screwups who make poor decisions (drug use; promiscuity; health; lack of civic participation or church attendence, etc.) His view is that while middle and upper class have a duty to those below them in status, that doesn’t mean coddling them with excuses or handouts (Murray is also quite libertarian.) So disliking Trump/Trumpism is completely consistent with his written work.
I would like to understand your context. Thanks.Replies: @Ennui, @Intelligent Dasein
Certainly. Here is the direct link to Oswald Spengler’s The Decline of the West, Volume II, page 295, where begins the section on reformations.
The work is magisterial and, depending on how much you want to read, would be quite informative with respect to your request.
And he could just stay out of it.(I just wonder what people of an advanced age are saving themselves from with this surrender).Respectfully, "noticing" is nothing if it doesn't lead to action. Without subsequent action "noticing" is sanctioning.Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Dennis Dale, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar
So the Charles Lindberghs and Jeannette Rankin “sanctioned” Germany– twice, no less?
Sanction, by the way, is an example of an autoantonym, i.e., the ultimate weasel word. Since sanctioning Brutalism is never off-topic here, look what somebody noticed:
I feel like we can all relate
Essen Hauptbahnhof Before and After WWII 🙁
The train station of Debrecen before and after WWII
(What is it with Reddit and images?)
But you are actually making precisely my point. Alone among Western nations America has had a large black population. The whole "Negro question" has been an American thing ... forever. No other white nations were obsessed with blacks ... because they didn't have a bunch of blacks.
Post 1945 America dominated the West--politically and militarily--and with 3X the population of the rest of the Anglosphere dominated it politically, academically, culturally. As you noted they had essentially zero blacks until 1948, but in a fit of imperial arrogance--and some cheap labor shilling greed--allowed immigration of commonwealth randos. And then--shockingly diversity created not joy but contention--they stupidly aped the minoritarian policies from America. We get a "Civil Rights Act", they get a "Racial Relations Act". We get another "Civil Rights Act", they get another "Racial Relations Act".
The big difference--at least peering over from America--seems to be that the Brits:
a) lack a real constitution so the super-state has had an easier time rolling out totalitarian thought police
b) have a state media; so the BBC just shovels out the super-state's diversity propaganda; (sort of like if we had Democratic Party TV channel)
But you'll note that even though the Brits have about twice as many South Asians, than blacks--7% vs. 3.5%--their "diversity" casting--including a-historical diversity--is still much more about "blacks!!!"
Why ... because they have imbibed this "blacks!!!" obsession from America.Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Frau Katze, @Anonymous
We have many. What we need is an alternative.
“and is capable of inflicting it”
Except he is not. Europe has a GDP several times that of Russia and can easily afford militaries to fend off Russia. There is no reason for American taxpayers to pick up the tab.
I am confident we will eventually end our assistance to the Ukraine. I am old enough to have seen this story play out before with Vietnam and Afghanistan. When we exit this quagmire, I am sure you will be fussing and fuming about it but there will be nothing you can do about it. However, if you want to vote for Biden to keep Trump out of office in order to try to delay the inevitable go right ahead. Why don’t you declare your support for Biden right now?
You’re incorrigible.
The act of permitting, especially in giving formal consent; authorization.
“Do they have permission to leave?”
Point taken though. But what I’m criticizing is the conceit that “noticing” is doing anything, or that “citizenism” is tenable now, not the good people who engage in these things. Of course, Lindbergh dared notice what contemporary noticers take note not to notice: Jewish power is our problem.
Don’t look at me, I wasn’t even going there until you did.
Summon every talent you have to end immigration. Once that is done you can focus on how to preserve White culture within the nation. If immigration continues without end you won’t have a chance in hell.
You really have some insecurity complex going there. “Look at me! I’m important! People on isteve keep replying to me!”
You keep hurling insults at us, implying that we are dummies. So why do you reply to us?
You are making arguments here. We are rebutting them. That is how arguments work. No, I don’t care what you think. I care what other people think. There are some people here I think I can persuade. You are not one of them. You are a lost cause. But perhaps I can persuade other people here that you are full of s**t. I want them to agree with me, not you.
Get it now, moron?
Except he is not. Europe has a GDP several times that of Russia and can easily afford militaries to fend off Russia. There is no reason for American taxpayers to pick up the tab.
I am confident we will eventually end our assistance to the Ukraine. I am old enough to have seen this story play out before with Vietnam and Afghanistan. When we exit this quagmire, I am sure you will be fussing and fuming about it but there will be nothing you can do about it. However, if you want to vote for Biden to keep Trump out of office in order to try to delay the inevitable go right ahead. Why don't you declare your support for Biden right now?Replies: @HA, @Mr. Anon
“Except he is not.”
Much the same assertions were voiced about how he couldn’t be so dumb as to try and invade Ukraine, and yet, here we are. All that cui bono? rigamarole only works in the perfect world where too-full-of-themselves autocrats don’t frequently make boneheaded decisions. Speaking of which, at the rate this Hunter investigation is going, don’t assume that that, too, won’t simply backfire and hurt both his boy Trump and those who support him. That alone should have been reason enough for his fanboys to see that his continue meddling in the affairs of other states, be they Ukraine or America, is counterproductive.
“Why don’t you declare your support for Biden right now?”
As if your eagerness to have me do so isn’t in and of itself evidence that that would be a dumb move? You flatter yourself. Moreover, I think you need to order your own affairs a little better before giving advice to others or how to organize theirs.
Except he is not. Europe has a GDP several times that of Russia and can easily afford militaries to fend off Russia. There is no reason for American taxpayers to pick up the tab.
I am confident we will eventually end our assistance to the Ukraine. I am old enough to have seen this story play out before with Vietnam and Afghanistan. When we exit this quagmire, I am sure you will be fussing and fuming about it but there will be nothing you can do about it. However, if you want to vote for Biden to keep Trump out of office in order to try to delay the inevitable go right ahead. Why don't you declare your support for Biden right now?Replies: @HA, @Mr. Anon
The mendacious clown known as “HA” derides anybody who doesn’t share his concern with Ukraine – which last time I checked is a completely foreign country, not my own – as a “Putin fanboy”. He seems not to realize that we are not obligated to give a damn about Ukraine.
Wrong again. I have repeatedly made the point that if Putin had taken over Ukraine peacefully (as he came close to doing with Yanukovych, before botching it up completely), it would have been no skin off my nose, even if it meant that Ukraine would disappear forever. The Russians had previously worked something similar out with Belarus, and I've never expressed a word of disapproval about that, either, regardless of how much the Kremlin benefits.
But when Putin or anyone else tries to carve up countries whose security assurances we ourselves helped midwife, making it that much more unlikely that any other country will willingly give up its nukes, that's an American problem. If he tries to revive a Soviet system ( whose downfall he regards as the "greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century") that will undoubtedly suck America into the same games we spent nearly half a century playing and then regretting ever since, then again, it's no longer just about Ukraine, it's an American issue. I have two world wars to back me up on that, and I don't need a third.
It's pathetic that I have to even remind you that there are some hard-learned lessons behind why Americans (and Brits, and Dutch, and Poles, etc.) frown on invasions and tanks and ripping up borders and starting landwars in Eurasia and I'm so sorry that you and senile and ignorant people like you have forgotten them (or never bothered to learn them), but that's your damage.
And I get it -- you don't have an answer for that, so you pretend this is about Ukraine, or the neo-cons, or me trying to get attention, orwhatever else pops into your fevered little head before it shuts down altogether, but again, that's only convincing to those who have bought up what the trolls are selling.Replies: @Jack D, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @YetAnotherAnon, @deep anonymous, @Mr. Anon
Tangy duck
I want some of what you are on!
That he attacks Jack D and Twinkie along with everyone else, and racially to boot, shows that he's as versatile as Gaetan Dugas ever was.
"Do they have permission to leave?"Point taken though. But what I'm criticizing is the conceit that "noticing" is doing anything, or that "citizenism" is tenable now, not the good people who engage in these things. Of course, Lindbergh dared notice what contemporary noticers take note not to notice: Jewish power is our problem.Don't look at me, I wasn't even going there until you did.Replies: @Anonymous
Citizenism is the only practical pathway out of this growing calamity.
Summon every talent you have to end immigration. Once that is done you can focus on how to preserve White culture within the nation. If immigration continues without end you won’t have a chance in hell.
Correct, black people should pay us reparations, instead they tend to be Disgruntled.
Could you provide us with a citation please?
It seems likely to be true. At least until recently, Russia was wildly underpopulated; whatever the inequities and insecurities of peasant life, there would have been essentially unlimited natural resources.Replies: @Anonymous, @Wielgus
What would describe the same things, but without the insult? “Non-jew”? “English”?Replies: @Reg Cæsar
How about “Christian”?
I want some of what you are on!Replies: @Reg Cæsar
The only thing consistent about the Crow is his need to feel morally superior to everyone else. It’s a strange defect of the “Nordic” type; you almost never encounter it in other races. No, you never encounter it in other races, not even those girls adopted as babies from the East Asian littoral. It’s the North Sea version of sickle cell or Tay-Sachs.
That he attacks Jack D and Twinkie along with everyone else, and racially to boot, shows that he’s as versatile as Gaetan Dugas ever was.
Often, not enough. But (in addition to cereals, heavily consumed most places): dairy (especially in NW Europe), legumes and green vegetables (especially in S Europe), fish and various small game where/when available (large was uncommon and generally reserved for the upper classes: see all the folklore about poachers.)
But you are actually making precisely my point. Alone among Western nations America has had a large black population. The whole "Negro question" has been an American thing ... forever. No other white nations were obsessed with blacks ... because they didn't have a bunch of blacks.
Post 1945 America dominated the West--politically and militarily--and with 3X the population of the rest of the Anglosphere dominated it politically, academically, culturally. As you noted they had essentially zero blacks until 1948, but in a fit of imperial arrogance--and some cheap labor shilling greed--allowed immigration of commonwealth randos. And then--shockingly diversity created not joy but contention--they stupidly aped the minoritarian policies from America. We get a "Civil Rights Act", they get a "Racial Relations Act". We get another "Civil Rights Act", they get another "Racial Relations Act".
The big difference--at least peering over from America--seems to be that the Brits:
a) lack a real constitution so the super-state has had an easier time rolling out totalitarian thought police
b) have a state media; so the BBC just shovels out the super-state's diversity propaganda; (sort of like if we had Democratic Party TV channel)
But you'll note that even though the Brits have about twice as many South Asians, than blacks--7% vs. 3.5%--their "diversity" casting--including a-historical diversity--is still much more about "blacks!!!"
Why ... because they have imbibed this "blacks!!!" obsession from America.Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Frau Katze, @Anonymous
You’re describing Canada there!
Are these institutions and companies just stupid? Do they hate money?
Or are there perhaps unseen incentives driving this behavior? Perhaps favor trading with forces that have an interest in controlling the information space for financial and political reasons.
I don't know the answer but at some level you have to either be a conspiracy theorist or else decide that capitalism doesn't work.Replies: @Mark G., @James B. Shearer, @Peter Akuleyev
“…decide that capitalism doesn’t work.”
You just have to decide that capitalism doesn’t work perfectly. Which most people already know.
However, even if the talent is gone, the crazies are presumably still around. (Except that strong independent AI ethics negress who fired herself in a fit of rage.) Google's Indian boss will have to dig deep in the homeland for fresh troops, I suppose.Replies: @James B. Shearer
“…At least Intel, which has big problems too, don’t degrade their chips for the sake of racial equity.”
If they are hiring less competent people for diversity reasons it comes to the same thing.
That included the people necessary to transition to their next "10 nm" node, and we're told a pajeet who's only skill was sucking up to his superiors was put in charge of that catastrophic disaster. This was Stark Raving Mad after the serious difficulties the company had moving to their prior 14 nm node, note how very few Broadwell SKUs there were and how late, and how none had more than six MiB of L3 cache.
Also gutted the company's verification function in the name of "velocity," but it doesn't work that way when you have to make numerous steppings, that is partial or completely new tries to get a particular chip theoretically correct.
Which has huge costs in Non-Recurring Engineering (NRE) like making new mask sets, and time as the the chip takes weeks or months to be made before you hook it up and discover it doesn't work. This also made their chips a lot more flaky starting with Skylake, and we're also told that was the last straw for Apple in moving to their own ARM design for their Macintosh computers.
How is this different from the current situation where Amazon Web Services, Microsoft Azure and Google Cloud together have a 60% market share in cloud services? AI is going to sit up in the cloud too. It already does. Or else people will run their own AIs the way they run their own bitcoin mines.
You can't rule out your scenario but I think the chances that it will go that way are very slim. Usually the assumptions behind these "we will ignite a chain reaction that will consume the universe" scenarios are flawed in some way so that they are not truly infinitely scalable.
It's like whales - once they were freed from having to support their own body weight, whales grew in size from the size of a wolf until they became the largest animals ever to live but eventually they hit a limit at around 300 tons. There are no 600 ton or 1200 ton whales because at some point other disadvantages kick in which counterbalance the advantages of large size. You are never going have one giant whale that will eat all the other whales.Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @James B. Shearer
“…The data set and processing power needed to operate on that data set for the most powerful possible AI is large but finite. …”
Even assuming this is true (which I am unconvinced of as regards computing power) finite doesn’t mean practicable. The amount of computing power required to recover a 256 bit cryptovariable by exhaustion (trying all the possibilities) in a reasonable amount of time isn’t going to exist anytime soon.
Our ability for the US gov to spend $ on ANYTHING is dependent on the US $ remaining the world's reserve currency. If the US gov was pay as you go then it would have to shrink tremendously. Ukraine is not important in and of itself but because it is the front line of the Chinese/Russian/Iranian plan to knock the US off of its perch. The only thing worse than being the global hegemon is NOT being the global hegemon.Replies: @Colin Wright, @James B. Shearer, @The Germ Theory of Disease
“…Ukraine is not important in and of itself but because it is the front line of the Chinese/Russian/Iranian plan to knock the US off of its perch. ..”
I don’t think that is why Putin invaded Ukraine.
At an even higher level, Russian World is just one part of anti-Western World. Western World wants to make the world safe for democracy. Anti-Western World wants to make the world safe for dictatorship.
Similarly,Given that elected officials are by definition elected for their ability to vote-lust, yet this particular wheeze not only brought no new votes but lost them plenty of old votes, maybe they didn't do it out of vote-lust after all?
And, since this is iSteve, take not an ancient HBD digression askance:Has DNA analysis borne this out? Not that ancient proprietors did not import slaves, but that the slaves replaced the Romans? I thought DNA analysis showed the Italians to have remained remarkably Italian through all their travails ... at least until Merkel's Mistake.
On the other hand, this is correct:and was appreciated by Marx, who therefore welcomed capitalism in medieval economies as what he saw as a necessary precursor to Communism. (I'm anti-Marxist, but it still amazes me how many self-proclaimed Marxists, Communists, etc. have no idea what Marx actually said. That pro-capitalists are ignorant of one of the few things Marx was right about is less surprising.)
And—Francis again—this was certainly prophetic:Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
“the Left is a Gordian Knot of absurdities and self-contradictions. Yet somehow it keeps triumphing. So maybe it is not because of “simplicity and clearness” after all.”
I dunno, I think this is pretty “simple and clear”…
I used to roll up,
And say This is a hold-up!
Don’t act funny,
Keep still, and don’t
Move nuffin but da money.
— Eric B and Rakim, “Paid in Full”
That’s pretty much all the Left philosophy you need to know, right there. The rest is commentary.
... what?
The only consistent theme is not money but hostility to whites and to Western civilization, which boils down to the same thing, I suppose.
So maybe "simplicity and clearness" do underlie the leftist program after all: hatred for the white West.
But even still, this simple and clear program is almost never stated simply and clearly, and so its adherents do indeed pledge allegiance to "a Gordian Knot of absurdities and self-contradictions" rather than to anything simple and clear. So evidently simplicity and clearness are not needed to "exert immense power on the human mind" and are not needed—at least among the Borg horde—to triumph.Replies: @Jack D
Our ability for the US gov to spend $ on ANYTHING is dependent on the US $ remaining the world's reserve currency. If the US gov was pay as you go then it would have to shrink tremendously. Ukraine is not important in and of itself but because it is the front line of the Chinese/Russian/Iranian plan to knock the US off of its perch. The only thing worse than being the global hegemon is NOT being the global hegemon.Replies: @Colin Wright, @James B. Shearer, @The Germ Theory of Disease
The idiocy and sentimentality of the entire Ukraine debate on this blog (all sides) sort of astounds me. People who are highly intelligent and perceptive on all manner of other topics suddenly become drooling buffoons when it comes to Ukraine.
During the Cold War, it used to be said in some circles that strategically, the Russians were born chess players and the Americans were born poker players. It was assumed that intellectually, chess was the superior game until some wag pointed out that strategically, poker is superior because in chess both sides can see all the pieces on the board but in poker, your opponent cannot see what cards you’re holding.
But you are actually making precisely my point. Alone among Western nations America has had a large black population. The whole "Negro question" has been an American thing ... forever. No other white nations were obsessed with blacks ... because they didn't have a bunch of blacks.
Post 1945 America dominated the West--politically and militarily--and with 3X the population of the rest of the Anglosphere dominated it politically, academically, culturally. As you noted they had essentially zero blacks until 1948, but in a fit of imperial arrogance--and some cheap labor shilling greed--allowed immigration of commonwealth randos. And then--shockingly diversity created not joy but contention--they stupidly aped the minoritarian policies from America. We get a "Civil Rights Act", they get a "Racial Relations Act". We get another "Civil Rights Act", they get another "Racial Relations Act".
The big difference--at least peering over from America--seems to be that the Brits:
a) lack a real constitution so the super-state has had an easier time rolling out totalitarian thought police
b) have a state media; so the BBC just shovels out the super-state's diversity propaganda; (sort of like if we had Democratic Party TV channel)
But you'll note that even though the Brits have about twice as many South Asians, than blacks--7% vs. 3.5%--their "diversity" casting--including a-historical diversity--is still much more about "blacks!!!"
Why ... because they have imbibed this "blacks!!!" obsession from America.Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Frau Katze, @Anonymous
In fact, there never was a program to import ‘cheap labor’ from the Caribbean to ‘rebuild Britain’ after WW2.
The passengers of the Empire Windrush were purely hustlers and grifters chancing some discounted boat tickets from an enterprising agent wishing to fill otherwise empty berths.
On arrival in the UK, the UK ‘Minister of Labor’ pleaded with them to go home. After wise he publicly declared ‘Don’t worry, they won’t last a single English winter’ (!!!!).
Hubris to end all hubris.
Oh man, this is so … Current Year, we must know the source!
“You had no problem believing any of it when Biden was in their crosshairs.”
What are you talking about? Biden was NEVER in their crosshairs. The entire time the system has seen to it that the Bidens escape culpability for their crimes. In all likelihood, that is why the special counsel indicted their informant.
I dunno, I think this is pretty "simple and clear"...
I used to roll up,
And say This is a hold-up!
Don't act funny,
Keep still, and don't
Move nuffin but da money.
-- Eric B and Rakim, "Paid in Full"
That's pretty much all the Left philosophy you need to know, right there. The rest is commentary.Replies: @Almost Missouri
I dunno man, woke corporations do all kinds of anti-profitable things, woke media tycoons alienate their audience and refuse to produce popular programs, the leftist regime waves in millions of money-sucking welfare sponges, leftist mayors and governors cheerfully oversee the financial gutting of their cities and states, etc., etc. If it were really all about the Benjamins, these people could be doing far easier and more profitable things (and be more popular!). But instead they are expending large effort, facing PR headwinds, and sacrificing their own bottom line in order to …
… what?
The only consistent theme is not money but hostility to whites and to Western civilization, which boils down to the same thing, I suppose.
So maybe “simplicity and clearness” do underlie the leftist program after all: hatred for the white West.
But even still, this simple and clear program is almost never stated simply and clearly, and so its adherents do indeed pledge allegiance to “a Gordian Knot of absurdities and self-contradictions” rather than to anything simple and clear. So evidently simplicity and clearness are not needed to “exert immense power on the human mind” and are not needed—at least among the Borg horde—to triumph.
Sometimes veering to the Left is the best of bad economic choices. Take for example the newspaper and magazine business which is no longer a viable economic model for the most part. If you continue to publish a "neutral" newspaper no one will buy it. So your choice is either to throw your lot into one camp or another (political alignment produces engagement) or else go out of business. Which camp will you align with? Take NYC - in 2020, Biden received 76% of the vote to Trump’s 23% (up from 18% in 2016) - over 3 to 1. If you were a business owner in NYC, which camp would you choose if you had to choose only one?Replies: @Almost Missouri
Yes it was, hospital was where you went to die. If you weren’t mortally ill when you arrived, you soon would be.
Doctors often did more harm than good. The belief that disease was spread by bad smells persisted until the late 19th century. So there was no need to wash your hands after handling diseased patients. Look at all the trouble Semmelweis had trying to convince doctors to do otherwise.
Are these institutions and companies just stupid? Do they hate money?
Or are there perhaps unseen incentives driving this behavior? Perhaps favor trading with forces that have an interest in controlling the information space for financial and political reasons.
I don't know the answer but at some level you have to either be a conspiracy theorist or else decide that capitalism doesn't work.Replies: @Mark G., @James B. Shearer, @Peter Akuleyev
capitalism doesn’t work.
It works fine for the owners of capital. There is no reason to believe the wealthy suffer in any way from woke agendas. Indeed, it gives existing elites levers to use to keep potential competing intelligent white people on the sidelines.
Less conspiratorily, most business people simply react to social and demographic trends, they don’t try to influence them. People in the C-suites see the demographics of the US changing and are rushing to position themselves to take economic advantage of those changes. Even conservative CEOs who may rail in private against immigration and vote for Trump are still using their work hours to aggressively pursue business strategies that appeal to the groups who have the spending power to buy their products. They answer to the share holders after all.
No function. To recall Hyman Roth in the Godfather: “ I’m a retired schoolteacher living on s pension…”
NB: autocorrect changed “retired” to “refried” which might be better…
GIGO is still an elemental aspect of what used to be called computer programming: garbage in, garbage out. The adjective “artificial” which appears in the term AI is synonymous with “imitation” after all.
“Luther cheered for the Ottoman invasion of Eastern Europe, he was sneering about the calamity faced by the Hapsburgs”.
Considering there was a schism within the Church, that is not surprising. Religious freedom is paramount.
“When he wasn’t making fart jokes from the pulpit”
Citations required.
“If hundreds of Christian villagers were conquered and put into slavery, oh well.”
And if Protestants had been butchered–men, women, and children–you would be gleeful in that outcome. It’s a fight over faith. Been that way for centuries.
https://www.wilsonquarterly.com/quarterly/summer-2012-american-vistas/the-scatological-luther
https://medium.com/belover/martin-luther-comedian-f4e5f0f8b6bd
I always forget, Corvinus, you wouldn't know about Luther's toilet talk. That little detail wasn't included in your bien pensant guide to American History.
I imagine for you the last 1000 years is something like
..... Magna Charta gave everybody rights...blah, blah, blah... English believers huddled in basements wanting to hear the word in their own language...blah, blah, blah... Americans fighting the tyrant George III.... Evil Southern traitors....blah, blah, blah... Atticus Finch... blah, blah, blah... JFK speech....Replies: @Corvinus
The work is magisterial and, depending on how much you want to read, would be quite informative with respect to your request.Replies: @Corvinus
Thanks for the link. But I was hoping for YOUR explanation, as I am somewhat familiar with Spengler’s opinion on the matter.
“Blacks have benefited enormously from so-called slavery in the United States. It stands as probably the greatest benefit given by one race (Whites) to another (Blacks) in the history of mankind.”
I can’t tell if this is the same (deranged) anony I had to correct before, or someone else. Regardless, the fact of the matter is that a free people were ripped from their homeland against their will. Families were separated. Young girls were raped. Any normal person would find this course of action to be cruel, wicked, and evil. There was a patent interest by slave owners to perpetuate a system that lined their pockets while attempting to justify their brutal treatment by way of “human improvement”, that slaves were somehow living in a world of cheerfulness and contentment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(410)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Rome_(455)Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Hypnotoad666, @BB753
“How is it different when pagan Germans do it versus Mohammedans?”
By the time the Vandals and the Goths invaded the empire, they were already Christian, if you consider Arianism a Christian heresy.
They later accepted the Divinity of Jesus . Moreover , they had lived side by side with Romans for centuries. So, it’s different.
Yeah, this happens all the time. Putin just explained how Poland baited Hitler into attacking Poland in 1939.
Look up 'Teschen' if any of this confuses you.Replies: @Jack D
I don't think that is why Putin invaded Ukraine.Replies: @Jack D
Of course he had his particular reasons involving Prince Rurik in 862, etc. but from a 50,000 ft. view, he did not want Ukraine to become part of the Western (American led) world and wanted it to be part of Russian World. Ukraine just has the bad luck of currently sitting at the interface of Western World and Russian World. If Ukraine falls then Poland assumes that role.
At an even higher level, Russian World is just one part of anti-Western World. Western World wants to make the world safe for democracy. Anti-Western World wants to make the world safe for dictatorship.
The passengers of the Empire Windrush were purely hustlers and grifters chancing some discounted boat tickets from an enterprising agent wishing to fill otherwise empty berths.
On arrival in the UK, the UK 'Minister of Labor' pleaded with them to go home. After wise he publicly declared 'Don't worry, they won't last a single English winter' (!!!!).
Hubris to end all hubris.Replies: @Jack D
In fact, there was:
https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/stories/people/london-transports-caribbean-recruitment
They weren’t looking for “cheap labor” per se, they were looking for labor period. You could argue that they could have paid more and filled the roles domestically but there are only so many workers available – raising the price does not magically create more people.
It does in a way by encouraging employers to use people more efficiently.
I give a damn about Ukraine, because most of them, at least in the western half of the country, have been horribly betrayed by their government.
I wonder what BoJo, an entertainer but a nasty piece of work*, said to Zelensky about the 2022 peace deal?
*
“Guppy said that his criminal activities involving insurance fraud were being investigated by News of the World journalist Stuart Collier, and he asked Johnson to provide him with Collier’s private address, seeking to have the latter beaten. Johnson agreed, although he expressed concern that he would be associated with the attack.”
LOL, this is other than normal behavior on your part. Supporting the enslavement of blacks as if it was some noble white endeavor is irrational and outside the norms of human decency.
If they are hiring less competent people for diversity reasons it comes to the same thing.Replies: @That Would Be Telling
And that’s exactly what happened when Brian Krzanich dealt a perhaps fatal blow to Intel in the first year or two he was at the helm starting in mid-2013. He fired vast numbers of primarily white males while making a huge push for diversity.
That included the people necessary to transition to their next “10 nm” node, and we’re told a pajeet who’s only skill was sucking up to his superiors was put in charge of that catastrophic disaster. This was Stark Raving Mad after the serious difficulties the company had moving to their prior 14 nm node, note how very few Broadwell SKUs there were and how late, and how none had more than six MiB of L3 cache.
Also gutted the company’s verification function in the name of “velocity,” but it doesn’t work that way when you have to make numerous steppings, that is partial or completely new tries to get a particular chip theoretically correct.
Which has huge costs in Non-Recurring Engineering (NRE) like making new mask sets, and time as the the chip takes weeks or months to be made before you hook it up and discover it doesn’t work. This also made their chips a lot more flaky starting with Skylake, and we’re also told that was the last straw for Apple in moving to their own ARM design for their Macintosh computers.
Do “we European whites” include Germans from 1933 to 1945? Because if that is the best deal that Jews ever got, I would hate to see what a bad deal is like.
This is strictly in your imagination. If Jews despise European whites so much, why do 70% of non-Orthodox Jews marry non-Jews (who are mostly European whites)? In the Jim Crow South, 70% of whites did not marry blacks.
Bonus:
... what?
The only consistent theme is not money but hostility to whites and to Western civilization, which boils down to the same thing, I suppose.
So maybe "simplicity and clearness" do underlie the leftist program after all: hatred for the white West.
But even still, this simple and clear program is almost never stated simply and clearly, and so its adherents do indeed pledge allegiance to "a Gordian Knot of absurdities and self-contradictions" rather than to anything simple and clear. So evidently simplicity and clearness are not needed to "exert immense power on the human mind" and are not needed—at least among the Borg horde—to triumph.Replies: @Jack D
Theoretically corporations are answerable only to their shareholders and should only do that which make more money, but that’s not a complete description of reality. Corporations have other constituencies – their workforce which may be politically aligned (to the Left). The C-suite executives and board members who want to be welcomed by others in their industry and country club and not shunned. The (Leftist aligned) government agencies that regulate them and may be in a position to stymy and punish them if they veer to the right. Etc. Most of these forces push to the Left.
Sometimes veering to the Left is the best of bad economic choices. Take for example the newspaper and magazine business which is no longer a viable economic model for the most part. If you continue to publish a “neutral” newspaper no one will buy it. So your choice is either to throw your lot into one camp or another (political alignment produces engagement) or else go out of business. Which camp will you align with? Take NYC – in 2020, Biden received 76% of the vote to Trump’s 23% (up from 18% in 2016) – over 3 to 1. If you were a business owner in NYC, which camp would you choose if you had to choose only one?
I had to disagree with that too, since they are evidently not making much money from wokism, at least not from their customers.
I gather you are agreeing with me—which I appreciate—saying that it's not the money, but saying it is rather a subtle social pressure.
But I'm not sure I can agree with that either. In all of the examples I cited (media alienating their audiences, the FedGov flooding everywhere with unvetted illegals, mayors and governors ruining their cities and states), they are acting against the main social pressure they ought to be subject to.
Now maybe there is some secret Eyes Wide Shut-esque club that every CEO and politician wants so desperately to join that it overrides every normal consideration of business and statecraft, but I'm not that much of a conspiracy theorist (though every fresh newsdump makes me wonder if I should reconsider).Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
You keep hurling insults at us, implying that we are dummies. So why do you reply to us?
You are making arguments here. We are rebutting them. That is how arguments work. No, I don't care what you think. I care what other people think. There are some people here I think I can persuade. You are not one of them. You are a lost cause. But perhaps I can persuade other people here that you are full of s**t. I want them to agree with me, not you.
Get it now, moron?Replies: @HA
“You really have some insecurity complex going there. ‘Look at me! I’m important! People on isteve keep replying to me!’”
Come on, you can do better than that. Look, I don’t give a flip if the fanboys don’t reply to me. If you want to do me a solid, then don’t. And if you do reply, well, that’s your choice, too.
But IF you do reply, you might want to stop pretending you don’t care about what I read. It’s not convincing.
And since Mark G. chimed in, the same goes with regard to any creepy inquisitiveness as to who I endorse. If Steve or anyone else wants to lay out personal information to build rapport with the readership or establish some credentials, that’s fine. I myself prefer to stay mum about that, and that approach works better for me. As such, I lay out an argument, and if you can poke a hole in it, you’re free to do so. If you can’t, and therefore instead try to make it about me specifically, and then on top of that claim that that’s what I came here for — well, that, too is also unlikely to convince anyone. You’re just fishing around trying to salvage a losing argument. Seriously, maybe worry about your own affairs and messed up life choices instead of inquiring into what people you don’t even know choose to do. That would be far more productive, I think. Again, you’re free to express what ever creepy curiosity you choose to indulge, even if it’s about me, but if that’s the route you take, prepare to be called out on it.
“To me, it doesn’t look like some nefarious plot to erase white people from history. It looks like a severe limitation in the software combined with a lack of foresight on the part of Google.”
Oh it is intentional, without a doubt. Our local hypercreative Europeans suffering fainting spells viz Gemini’s hilarious images surely, surely can program their own AI to depict fantastical images of White Excellence in, say, cornerback or heavyweight prizefighter, whathaveyou. Lots of high-IQ white fellas round here: learn to code and get ‘er dun!
“The mendacious clown known as ‘HA’ derides anybody who doesn’t share his concern with Ukraine…”
Wrong again. I have repeatedly made the point that if Putin had taken over Ukraine peacefully (as he came close to doing with Yanukovych, before botching it up completely), it would have been no skin off my nose, even if it meant that Ukraine would disappear forever. The Russians had previously worked something similar out with Belarus, and I’ve never expressed a word of disapproval about that, either, regardless of how much the Kremlin benefits.
But when Putin or anyone else tries to carve up countries whose security assurances we ourselves helped midwife, making it that much more unlikely that any other country will willingly give up its nukes, that’s an American problem. If he tries to revive a Soviet system ( whose downfall he regards as the “greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century”) that will undoubtedly suck America into the same games we spent nearly half a century playing and then regretting ever since, then again, it’s no longer just about Ukraine, it’s an American issue. I have two world wars to back me up on that, and I don’t need a third.
It’s pathetic that I have to even remind you that there are some hard-learned lessons behind why Americans (and Brits, and Dutch, and Poles, etc.) frown on invasions and tanks and ripping up borders and starting landwars in Eurasia and I’m so sorry that you and senile and ignorant people like you have forgotten them (or never bothered to learn them), but that’s your damage.
And I get it — you don’t have an answer for that, so you pretend this is about Ukraine, or the neo-cons, or me trying to get attention, orwhatever else pops into your fevered little head before it shuts down altogether, but again, that’s only convincing to those who have bought up what the trolls are selling.
Certainly it would have been BETTER if Putin had been able to subvert Ukraine peacefully (he in fact sprung for TWO plates of cookies in order to beat Nuland's one - it's not his fault if the FSB guys ate both plates and "forgot" to deliver them to the Ukrainians) but that doesn't mean that it would have been good or unworthy of our condemnation.Replies: @HA
Tell us - are you an American citizen, d**khead?
I can't tell if this is the same (deranged) anony I had to correct before, or someone else. Regardless, the fact of the matter is that a free people were ripped from their homeland against their will. Families were separated. Young girls were raped. Any normal person would find this course of action to be cruel, wicked, and evil. There was a patent interest by slave owners to perpetuate a system that lined their pockets while attempting to justify their brutal treatment by way of "human improvement", that slaves were somehow living in a world of cheerfulness and contentment.Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
Massa was the alpha dominating her close African cousins something fierce: massa was sexy AF. Twas no rape involved – that’s just herstory concocted to explain them high-yella chilluns. There’s a good reason light-skinned halfricans were invited to live in the manse: they were family.
Wrong again. I have repeatedly made the point that if Putin had taken over Ukraine peacefully (as he came close to doing with Yanukovych, before botching it up completely), it would have been no skin off my nose, even if it meant that Ukraine would disappear forever. The Russians had previously worked something similar out with Belarus, and I've never expressed a word of disapproval about that, either, regardless of how much the Kremlin benefits.
But when Putin or anyone else tries to carve up countries whose security assurances we ourselves helped midwife, making it that much more unlikely that any other country will willingly give up its nukes, that's an American problem. If he tries to revive a Soviet system ( whose downfall he regards as the "greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century") that will undoubtedly suck America into the same games we spent nearly half a century playing and then regretting ever since, then again, it's no longer just about Ukraine, it's an American issue. I have two world wars to back me up on that, and I don't need a third.
It's pathetic that I have to even remind you that there are some hard-learned lessons behind why Americans (and Brits, and Dutch, and Poles, etc.) frown on invasions and tanks and ripping up borders and starting landwars in Eurasia and I'm so sorry that you and senile and ignorant people like you have forgotten them (or never bothered to learn them), but that's your damage.
And I get it -- you don't have an answer for that, so you pretend this is about Ukraine, or the neo-cons, or me trying to get attention, orwhatever else pops into your fevered little head before it shuts down altogether, but again, that's only convincing to those who have bought up what the trolls are selling.Replies: @Jack D, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @YetAnotherAnon, @deep anonymous, @Mr. Anon
I think that is going a little bit too far. The situation of the democratic forces inside of Russia and Belarus are not unlike those that prevailed during the Cold War. We are not really in a position to effectively help them but at the very least we can denounce dictators like Putin and Lukashenko. What they have done to their own people warrants “words of disapproval ” (and more – trade sanctions, etc.) at a minimum.
Certainly it would have been BETTER if Putin had been able to subvert Ukraine peacefully (he in fact sprung for TWO plates of cookies in order to beat Nuland’s one – it’s not his fault if the FSB guys ate both plates and “forgot” to deliver them to the Ukrainians) but that doesn’t mean that it would have been good or unworthy of our condemnation.
Wrong again. I have repeatedly made the point that if Putin had taken over Ukraine peacefully (as he came close to doing with Yanukovych, before botching it up completely), it would have been no skin off my nose, even if it meant that Ukraine would disappear forever. The Russians had previously worked something similar out with Belarus, and I've never expressed a word of disapproval about that, either, regardless of how much the Kremlin benefits.
But when Putin or anyone else tries to carve up countries whose security assurances we ourselves helped midwife, making it that much more unlikely that any other country will willingly give up its nukes, that's an American problem. If he tries to revive a Soviet system ( whose downfall he regards as the "greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century") that will undoubtedly suck America into the same games we spent nearly half a century playing and then regretting ever since, then again, it's no longer just about Ukraine, it's an American issue. I have two world wars to back me up on that, and I don't need a third.
It's pathetic that I have to even remind you that there are some hard-learned lessons behind why Americans (and Brits, and Dutch, and Poles, etc.) frown on invasions and tanks and ripping up borders and starting landwars in Eurasia and I'm so sorry that you and senile and ignorant people like you have forgotten them (or never bothered to learn them), but that's your damage.
And I get it -- you don't have an answer for that, so you pretend this is about Ukraine, or the neo-cons, or me trying to get attention, orwhatever else pops into your fevered little head before it shuts down altogether, but again, that's only convincing to those who have bought up what the trolls are selling.Replies: @Jack D, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @YetAnotherAnon, @deep anonymous, @Mr. Anon
Non sequitur alert. What country owning nukes would “give them up” for any reason? The point of having nukes is having nukes.
https://www.unz.com/isteve/why-not-let-users-adjust-how-bridgertonish-they-want-their-ai-pictures/#comment-6438168
When the Soviet Union split up, only Russia retained nukes. The Baltic States don’t have them, neither Kirghizstan or Azerbijan – and a good thing too, when you think what the Azeris are doing to the Armenians.
Imagine a Chechen bomb!
Armenia would probably like them at the moment, but they’d have sold them to someone 30 years ago by now.
South Africa gave up nukes, because they were handing over to the ANC.
Mandela may have been a responsible leader (at least you can argue it) but Jacob Zuma?
(cue video of African soldiers handing AK47 to primate)
I think Gaddaffi had a nuclear program too, which he gave up, something he probably regretted in his last days.
Wrong again. I have repeatedly made the point that if Putin had taken over Ukraine peacefully (as he came close to doing with Yanukovych, before botching it up completely), it would have been no skin off my nose, even if it meant that Ukraine would disappear forever. The Russians had previously worked something similar out with Belarus, and I've never expressed a word of disapproval about that, either, regardless of how much the Kremlin benefits.
But when Putin or anyone else tries to carve up countries whose security assurances we ourselves helped midwife, making it that much more unlikely that any other country will willingly give up its nukes, that's an American problem. If he tries to revive a Soviet system ( whose downfall he regards as the "greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century") that will undoubtedly suck America into the same games we spent nearly half a century playing and then regretting ever since, then again, it's no longer just about Ukraine, it's an American issue. I have two world wars to back me up on that, and I don't need a third.
It's pathetic that I have to even remind you that there are some hard-learned lessons behind why Americans (and Brits, and Dutch, and Poles, etc.) frown on invasions and tanks and ripping up borders and starting landwars in Eurasia and I'm so sorry that you and senile and ignorant people like you have forgotten them (or never bothered to learn them), but that's your damage.
And I get it -- you don't have an answer for that, so you pretend this is about Ukraine, or the neo-cons, or me trying to get attention, orwhatever else pops into your fevered little head before it shuts down altogether, but again, that's only convincing to those who have bought up what the trolls are selling.Replies: @Jack D, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @YetAnotherAnon, @deep anonymous, @Mr. Anon
“Americans (and Brits, and Dutch, and Poles, etc.) frown on invasions”
I must have dreamed the air assault on Serbia, the US troops at Pristina Airport, the invasion of Iraq, Grenada, Panama. The troops and air bombing in Lebanon, Syria, Libya.
Hell, the US is still stealing Syrian oil and providing safe haven for ISIS.
Move back a few decades and we’re looking at Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.
I don’t remember ANYONE reacting when Turkey invaded Cyprus, they’ve been there 40-plus years now.
Wrong again. I have repeatedly made the point that if Putin had taken over Ukraine peacefully (as he came close to doing with Yanukovych, before botching it up completely), it would have been no skin off my nose, even if it meant that Ukraine would disappear forever. The Russians had previously worked something similar out with Belarus, and I've never expressed a word of disapproval about that, either, regardless of how much the Kremlin benefits.
But when Putin or anyone else tries to carve up countries whose security assurances we ourselves helped midwife, making it that much more unlikely that any other country will willingly give up its nukes, that's an American problem. If he tries to revive a Soviet system ( whose downfall he regards as the "greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century") that will undoubtedly suck America into the same games we spent nearly half a century playing and then regretting ever since, then again, it's no longer just about Ukraine, it's an American issue. I have two world wars to back me up on that, and I don't need a third.
It's pathetic that I have to even remind you that there are some hard-learned lessons behind why Americans (and Brits, and Dutch, and Poles, etc.) frown on invasions and tanks and ripping up borders and starting landwars in Eurasia and I'm so sorry that you and senile and ignorant people like you have forgotten them (or never bothered to learn them), but that's your damage.
And I get it -- you don't have an answer for that, so you pretend this is about Ukraine, or the neo-cons, or me trying to get attention, orwhatever else pops into your fevered little head before it shuts down altogether, but again, that's only convincing to those who have bought up what the trolls are selling.Replies: @Jack D, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @YetAnotherAnon, @deep anonymous, @Mr. Anon
What about when the U.S starts a land war in the Middle East? Or when Israel starts a land war in the Middle East? Is that ok?
That might or might not be OK, but that's not what happened. HAMAS started a land war in the Middle East on Oct. 7, not Israel. Did you forget this part ? Are you lying on purpose?Replies: @deep anonymous
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabada_asturianaReplies: @Jack D
All over Europe (after beans were brought from the New World) there were various dishes along the theme of beans slowly cooked with meat (even the Jews had their cholent made with beef instead of pork). Often these would go in the local baker’s oven after the baker was done baking bread for the day – a sort of free slow cooker as the massive brick oven gradually cooled off.
If you were rich then all sorts of meat would go into it – various cuts of meat, sausages, etc. If you were poor, then maybe a little bit of salt pork only for flavor. The latter is the basis for the canned (and misleadingly named) Pork and Beans which is really Beans and (a microscopic amount of ) Pork [fat]. Because it is a traditional name, the product is allowed to keep this name even though it is misleading.
On paper, everyone was eating fabada (or cassoulet or feijoada or whatever it was called locally) but the actual dish varied greatly in meat content according to budget.
“I gather you think Hunter Biden isn’t all that bad (says something about you, hoss). “
I specifically referred to Hunter Biden as a “ne’er-do-well cokehead”, and said that’s something no one is denying. Look it up if you doubt me. And so you interpret that as “isn’t all that bad”? Believe it or not, that says way more about you than it does about me.
“I don’t understand anything you wrote.”
Yeah, what a surprise. Who was it that warned me about how “Trump supporters are ‘not very smart,’ ‘rednecks,’ and ‘primitive people’ who you have to talk to with ‘cliches and dumb slogans.’”?
Oh yeah, now I remember.
Actually I’ve known plenty of Trump supporters with above average smarts, but I gotta say that in your case, they seem to have you figured you out pretty well. I mean, they really nailed it. Maybe I’ll try and dumb it down next time so that you can follow along (assuming you lay off with the Hunter-esque nose candy), but then again, I doubt it.
“What country owning nukes would ‘give them up’ for any reason?
Is that some kind of trick question, or are you really that dense? On second thought, scratch that, and let me put it another way: Here’s one of the first results that I got when I typed in “which country gave up nuclear weapons” into a search engine.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-who-gave-up-nuclear-weapons.html
What did you get, or were you, again, just too dumb and lazy to work that out for yourself in any meaningful sense?
And guess what country is #1 on that list? Spoiler alert: it may just blow your little mind, but I suppose that isn’t saying much. I mean, if I were to set up a sock puppet whose sole purpose would be to ask embarrassingly dumb questions to make my opponents look like dimwitted morons, I couldn’t do any better than you just did, but you’re getting no gratitude from me.
For a few days, Kazakhstan was the Soviet Union. The "rotten egg".
Rome built a third.
Another Roman story. A Roman general was captured by the Carthaginians, who paroled him to take their peace terms to Rome, knowing he would honor his parole and return, and so would presumably present their terms fairly.
Dude presented the terms before the Senate, argued forcefully against accepting them, and then returned to the Carthaginians, who of course crucified him, as he knew they would.
They're hard to relate to. In a sense that doesn't apply to medieval Europeans or almost anyone around today, they're alien to us. It can get to be like reading about the Aztecs or somebody.Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Twinkie
For Romans in Rome’s quarrel
Spared neither land nor gold,
Nor son nor wife, nor limb nor life,
In the brave days of old.
XXXII
Then none was for a party;
Then all were for the state;
Then the great man helped the poor,
And the poor man loved the great:
Then lands were fairly portioned;
Then spoils were fairly sold:
The Romans were like brothers
In the brave days of old.
XXXIII
Now Roman is to Roman
More hateful than a foe,
And the Tribunes beard the high,
And the Fathers grind the low.
As we wax hot in faction,
In battle we wax cold:
Wherefore men fight not as they fought
In the brave days of old.
—Thomas Babington MacAuley
Reminds me of something or other . . .
Certainly it would have been BETTER if Putin had been able to subvert Ukraine peacefully (he in fact sprung for TWO plates of cookies in order to beat Nuland's one - it's not his fault if the FSB guys ate both plates and "forgot" to deliver them to the Ukrainians) but that doesn't mean that it would have been good or unworthy of our condemnation.Replies: @HA
The situation of the democratic forces inside of Russia and Belarus are not unlike those that prevailed during the Cold War. We are not really in a position to effectively help them but at the very least we can denounce dictators like Putin and Lukashenko.
I don’t disagree with that, and you make a good point, and I’m not saying that what Russian and Belarussian strongmen conspired to do wasn’t deeply undemocratic and that it didn’t shortchange the Belarussians especially. And I can certainly sympathize with Belarussian patriots who think their country would be freer without Moscow’s influence and deserves a chance to flourish outside their shadow.
But in general, if countries want to team up (say, the way Norway and Sweden once did) or else, come apart (say, the way Norway and Sweden once did), then they are the ones who need to work that through for themselves, and as long as they do that peacefully, it’s not something Americans should stick their noses into, even if some people are ticked off by the result. Even if America doesn’t benefit from the outcome, or considers the proceedings somewhat shady and illegitimate, there’s some gray area inside of which it makes no sense for us to do much of anything. After all, we didn’t raise too much of a stink when Lukashenko got his little sweetheart deal as far as being able to do whatever he wants with Belarus as long as he genuflects in the direction of the Kremlin often enough, and I understand why, I think.
Whereas what Putin is doing to now to conquer Ukraine is way out of line and it’s a different game altogether — especially given that we do have signatures to legitimize us taking a side.
Bonus:
https://dailystormer.in/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/921STORMERMEME260224.jpg-618x714.jpgReplies: @J.Ross
That’s terrible, it once took 4chan mere minutes.
Haven’t read the 300+ comments so far, so apologies if point already made.
But the slider does not have to just be woke/truth. It can be woke/racist. Or Russian/Ukrainian. Or conservative/liberal. Or etc. on many topics (global warming, abortion, gun rights, etc.)
So…this is not just opening up the AI responses to be configured to “looks bad” points of view. It also implies that there are many (not just woke) areas where the AI has been trained to be biased, already.
I like the concept of “Peaceful Nuclear Explosions”. That’d make a hell of a Fourth of July.
For a few days, Kazakhstan was the Soviet Union. The “rotten egg”.
Derb’s Vdare.com piece on Amy Wax got me looking up Linda Gottfredson. Notice this sentence on Wikipedia:
On almost any other subject, “described as” would be followed with a curt “[by who?]”
“Sources close to their thinking.”
Considering there was a schism within the Church, that is not surprising. Religious freedom is paramount.
"When he wasn’t making fart jokes from the pulpit"
Citations required.
"If hundreds of Christian villagers were conquered and put into slavery, oh well."
And if Protestants had been butchered--men, women, and children--you would be gleeful in that outcome. It's a fight over faith. Been that way for centuries.Replies: @Ennui
Your citations Herr Doktor,
https://www.wilsonquarterly.com/quarterly/summer-2012-american-vistas/the-scatological-luther
https://medium.com/belover/martin-luther-comedian-f4e5f0f8b6bd
I always forget, Corvinus, you wouldn’t know about Luther’s toilet talk. That little detail wasn’t included in your bien pensant guide to American History.
I imagine for you the last 1000 years is something like
….. Magna Charta gave everybody rights…blah, blah, blah… English believers huddled in basements wanting to hear the word in their own language…blah, blah, blah… Americans fighting the tyrant George III…. Evil Southern traitors….blah, blah, blah… Atticus Finch… blah, blah, blah… JFK speech….
What are you talking about? Biden was NEVER in their crosshairs. The entire time the system has seen to it that the Bidens escape culpability for their crimes. In all likelihood, that is why the special counsel indicted their informant.Replies: @HA
“What are you talking about? Biden was NEVER in their crosshairs.”
Try and pay attention. For several years Gym Jordan and numerous Fox News analysts have been telling us that a “trusted FBI informant” has been dishing dirt on Biden’s corrupt deals — e.g. allegations “that officials with Burisma, a Ukrainian energy company that employed Hunter Biden, had paid the Bidens $5 million each”.
If you don’t think that’s damaging to Biden, well, I can’t help you. In any case, you’re sorely deluded.
And then again, maybe he has never been in Ukraine. Maybe the informant misheard where Biden was surveiled. Or maybe he is lying. By the way, if Hunter Biden has never been in Ukraine, that makes his position on the board of directors of Burisma even more suspicious, does it not.
In any event, you act as if the FBI is more trustworthy than a foreign intelligence service. They aren't. They are protectors of their patron regime, same as the FSB is of theirs.
By the way - let's clear something up - are you an American citizen? A natural born American citizen living in America? You opine a lot on this country, so it would be useful to know what your relation to it is. You certainly seem to care deeply about Ukraine. So much so that you're all in on the side of Team Biden, America's own Borgia family.Replies: @HA
“It’s notable, in a pathetic way, that you place so much stock in CNN.”
If your preferred alternative is a Russian dis-info peddler, don’t cry to me about biased sources. Now THAT is pathetic (though par for the course). Plenty of other sources will corroborate CNN in this case, so feel free to check on what they say if you think there’s something CNN got wrong. This time around, the truth is so glaringly obvious that even CNN is gonna have a tough time screwing it up, though somehow you still managed to do just that.
“Do they mean that he never traveled to Ukraine on a commercial flight?”
Flailing around and shifting the goalposts? Do try and focus. The allegation — WHICH YOU QUOTED YOURSELF — is that “Hunter Biden was recorded making phone calls in a Kyiv hotel that is ‘wired” and ‘under the control of the Russians.’” Evidently, not only do you not bother to read up on what others have said before chiming in on a topic. You apparently forget what you yourself wrote! It’s like Dunning-Kruger squared or something. The point is not about how Hunter flew, walked, swam, crawled, or rode a magic unicorn to Kyiv. It’s rather that Hunter allegedly made it to a Kyiv hotel that was wired up by the Russians even though there are no records the FBI possess about him being there at the time (or ever). As distasteful as your drivel is, you at least should be willing to read it and answer for it yourself.
“Maybe the informant misheard where Biden was surveiled. Or maybe he is lying.”
Lying? Ya think? Yeah, I get the sense Russian intelligence sources do a lot of that, and to the extent Smirnov forgot to tell anyone before that that is who is source was, I can see how it would ruffle a few feathers. Again, does this really need explaining? If Smirnov had been upfront about his information being unconfirmable rumors, as was the case for those that made it into the Steele report, he’s got a good shot with his defense, but to the extent he didn’t reveal that his info was being fed to him by Russian intelligence, well, it’s probably gonna hurt his credibility with anyone who isn’t as dimwitted as you are, and unfortunately for him, that’s an enormously wide circle of people.
“By the way, if Hunter Biden has never been in Ukraine, that makes his position on the board of directors of Burisma even more suspicious, does it not.”
Ah yes, the old “heads I win, tails you lose” strategy. It really doesn’t matter what Hunter actually did or where he went, or even the fact that the Russians are sending dis-info that you and your buddies are desperately trying to fob off on the rest of us (even after it was outed as such). You know he’s guilty so you have no need of evidence, is that it?
If that’s your claim, then you and Gym Jordan and the rest of the people still trying to peddle this despite the egg on your face should be upfront about all that. As it is, good luck getting people outside the echo chambers to buy it. I have no idea how many of those cashing a check for serving on the board of directors of this company or that have never bothered to visit the home office, and my guess is neither do you. So do the legwork and find out. Thrashing around just makes you look desperate. The US doesn’t care if a director is a US resident or not, and I’ve seen nothing referring to how many times (if at all) they must visit the US. If that’s not enough for you, again, do your own legwork.
Good grief — even when someone is as shady as Joe Biden, you people can’t still make a case against him that doesn’t blow up in your own faces. And you dare talk to me about pathetic? Come on — you tried to hit the side of a barn and shot yourselves in the foot instead.
And - tell us - what service was Hunter Biden providing for Burisma. Can you? What rare business acumen is possessed by that drug-addict whore-monger train-wreck, who neither speaks Ukrainian, nor knows a single godda**ed thing about the energy business, let alone specifically the natural gas business, that it was worth a million dollars?
By the way, you never answered my question: Are you an American citizen? You keep throwing around the term "we", but a lot of people here seem to think you are not part of "we".
And if you care so f**king much about Ukraine, why don't you put on a camo mask, get your booster shots, grab a rifle, and go fight there yourself, you dishonest a**hole.Replies: @HA
As I recall, the thrust of his remarks was that Poland had collaborated in dividing up the Czech state — which was technically true. Putin’s remarks rather transparently owed a good deal to a need to justify Russia’s conduct at the time than to any serious belief that Poland had provoked Germany.
Look up ‘Teschen’ if any of this confuses you.
I’m afraid not. It’s merely something I read at some point and noted with mild interest.
It seems likely to be true. At least until recently, Russia was wildly underpopulated; whatever the inequities and insecurities of peasant life, there would have been essentially unlimited natural resources.
"128. Certain wild creatures, male and female, are to be seen about the countryside, grimy, livid, burnt black by the sun, as though tethered to the soil which they dig and till with unconquerable tenacity; they appear to have an articulate voice; and when they stand upright they show a human face; they are, in fact, men; at night they creep back into dens, where they live on black bread, water and roots; they spare other men the trouble of sowing, ploughing and reaping in order to live, and thus they deserve not to go short of that bread which they have sown." It seems 17th century French peasants led a miserable existence, with frequent famines. Perhaps indeed worse than Russian ones.Replies: @Anonymous
… Biden, damaged by that? People have been talking about that since before the 2020 campaign. What damage has he suffered? He and his son both have effectively admitted it, at this point everyone knows about it and accepts it. What damage? Is Charles Schumer going to impeach him?
LOL. HA, I see you’re triggered by your own petard that you triggered.
I asked, and you failed to answer, this question:
I wrote the above in a future sense, meaning what country owning nuclear weapons, now or in the future, would give them up? Perhaps it’s a ‘philosophical’ question, but no more philosophical than as you wrote, also in a future sense,
Oh, sure you did. Just sorta forgot to mention it, or something. Given that you're such a philosophical guy and all. Right. You and Gym Jordan should team up -- you seem to squirm in much the same way.Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
It seems likely to be true. At least until recently, Russia was wildly underpopulated; whatever the inequities and insecurities of peasant life, there would have been essentially unlimited natural resources.Replies: @Anonymous, @Wielgus
Do you recall the name of the traveler?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_de_Custine
Also see this.
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/the-marquis-de-custine-the-grouchier-gayer-tocqueville-of-russia
And this.
https://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft3b69n83q;chunk.id=d0e893;doc.view=print
Electronic version of Volume I.
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25755
I don't have a citation for you, but maybe you can find it with those links as a starting point?
“… Biden, damaged by that? People have been talking about that since before the 2020 campaign. What damage has he suffered? He and his son both have effectively admitted it,…”
Some very creative use of “effectively”. You mean as in “flat out denied”?
And it takes time to put an investigation together. In the case of Trump, he’s furious that it took the courts all this time to put the cases together, so as to handicap him in an election year. In the case of Biden, Gym Jordan’s efforts to bring this to a head in the past couple of months, well, that’s just a coincidence, I guess.
As I noted earlier, the claim that the Bidens received $5 million each from Burisma — as this Russian spy asset claimed — would have done Biden plenty of damage. I know that’s hard to believe for some Trump fans, who think a 5mil haircut is just how the game is played as far as Donald or Jared see it, but for most people, that’ll leave a mark.
The fact that the case is — at least for now — a shambles does mitigate the damage, and may utlimately wind up helping Biden more than hurting him, but that’s on Gym Jordan, not Chuck Schumer. Just because the gun you were aiming at someone misfires and blows up in your face doesn’t mean the bullet wasn’t deadly. It may just mean the gunman was an incompetent fool. The same is true of anyone who still insists any of this is “effectively” true or something equally ridiculous. I mean, take the “L” already — when the Kremlin generates some more kompromat, you can take another shot.
“I wrote the above in a future sense,….”
Oh, sure you did. Just sorta forgot to mention it, or something. Given that you’re such a philosophical guy and all. Right. You and Gym Jordan should team up — you seem to squirm in much the same way.
Tell us, who among the known nuclear powers will give up their nuclear weapons? And why? Or maybe you know of secret nuclear-armed entities ready to forfeit their weapons? Do tell…Replies: @HA, @Mr. Anon
“…raising the price does not magically create more people.”
It does in a way by encouraging employers to use people more efficiently.
https://www.wilsonquarterly.com/quarterly/summer-2012-american-vistas/the-scatological-luther
https://medium.com/belover/martin-luther-comedian-f4e5f0f8b6bd
I always forget, Corvinus, you wouldn't know about Luther's toilet talk. That little detail wasn't included in your bien pensant guide to American History.
I imagine for you the last 1000 years is something like
..... Magna Charta gave everybody rights...blah, blah, blah... English believers huddled in basements wanting to hear the word in their own language...blah, blah, blah... Americans fighting the tyrant George III.... Evil Southern traitors....blah, blah, blah... Atticus Finch... blah, blah, blah... JFK speech....Replies: @Corvinus
You learn something new everyday. Thanks for the links. Something to remember…
:”
“I always forget, Corvinus, you wouldn’t know about Luther’s toilet talk. That little detail wasn’t included in your bien pensant guide to American History.”
You mean world history, and, if you are honest, quite a few people would not be aware of this obscure nugget of information.
“I imagine for you the last 1000 years is something like”
Listen, the bottom line is that you have this fetish that the ideal government must be authoritarian in nature, and that people ought to willingly submit to it for their own good. But you have yet to offer any sort of plan to accomplish this “noble goal”, or even offer any potential candidates who are most qualified to lead it. So, by all means, please continue with your out of the ordinary commentary.
Look at all this verbal handwaving.
Oh, sure you did. Just sorta forgot to mention it, or something. Given that you're such a philosophical guy and all. Right. You and Gym Jordan should team up -- you seem to squirm in much the same way.Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
I guess for you it really was a “trick question”. 🙂 Again,
No answer? Maybe you have no defense for your silly nonproliferation concern troll?
Tell us, who among the known nuclear powers will give up their nuclear weapons? And why? Or maybe you know of secret nuclear-armed entities ready to forfeit their weapons? Do tell…
Say it ain’t so, Joe. Thread continues here:
https://www.unz.com/isteve/why-not-let-users-adjust-how-bridgertonish-they-want-their-ai-pictures/#comment-6438168
Tell us, who among the known nuclear powers will give up their nuclear weapons? And why? Or maybe you know of secret nuclear-armed entities ready to forfeit their weapons? Do tell…Replies: @HA, @Mr. Anon
“No answer? “
I answered pretty clearly. If you’re going to be “hypothetical” in the way you just claimed you are (at least, when it’s convenient) then “what country owning nukes?” can refer to most any time, unless you specifically state that the countries in question must own nukes NOW, which, as noted, you somehow curiously forgot.
As for “future”, that likewise follows from the fact that a country needs to acquire nukes first in order to relinquish them at some future time. Did that really need to be explained for you?
Again, maybe just take the “L”, and stew on it. As hard as that seems to be for you, digging yourself in deeper just makes you seem that much more pathetic.
What's the logic? If America doesn't save Ukraine from losing to Russia in the 2020s, South African government shot-callers in the 1980s with mystical future vision will keep and expand their nuclear weapons program? Sounds intriguing, but I don't know how you can prove it.Replies: @HA
Look up 'Teschen' if any of this confuses you.Replies: @Jack D
I wasn’t at all confused. Poland grabbed about 300 sq. miles (Rhode Island is 1,200 sq. miles) from Czechoslovkia at the time of the Munich accords, an area with a Polish minority. It was a dumb move (they had it for only a year before the Germans took it from them) but it in no way justified what the Germans did to them later any more than homicide is justified because the victim once stole a pack of gum.
I originally replied, in the present tense, to this apparent concern troll of yours:
Obviously we were both talking about the consequences of a current war and its future implications. Unless you’re telling us that American actions in the present can have a varying effect on South Africa’s past nuclear program? That’s some wild Back to the Future alternate-reality hallucinating, HA.
What’s the logic? If America doesn’t save Ukraine from losing to Russia in the 2020s, South African government shot-callers in the 1980s with mystical future vision will keep and expand their nuclear weapons program? Sounds intriguing, but I don’t know how you can prove it.
What's the logic? If America doesn't save Ukraine from losing to Russia in the 2020s, South African government shot-callers in the 1980s with mystical future vision will keep and expand their nuclear weapons program? Sounds intriguing, but I don't know how you can prove it.Replies: @HA
“Obviously we were both talking about the consequences of a current war and its future implications.”
Nothing obvious about it — you asked a “hypothetical” question, right? That’s what you subsequently claimed, and that’s how I answered you.
And to the extent your boy in Moscow has wrecked things for all of us in the future when it comes to getting a country to de-nuclearize (something that didn’t seem nearly so impossible before he began his Peter-the-Great hijinx), you’re just unwittingly making my larger point for me — about how what had been done to Ukraine harms us all — in your desperate efforts to wriggle out of some other error, so be careful where you go with all that.
I don’t trust any of them. Again, you are distorting my argument – apparently the only way you are capable of carrying out a conversation.
And where does that quote come from? From CNN? Or the FBI? Is that an actual quote from the FBI 302 form? And anway, the FBI is massively corrupt. They still take down all information given to them by hand – a system that is ripe for abuse (and is abused). They can just report anything as having been told to them, and courts take it as gospel truth.
And – tell us – what service was Hunter Biden providing for Burisma. Can you? What rare business acumen is possessed by that drug-addict whore-monger train-wreck, who neither speaks Ukrainian, nor knows a single godda**ed thing about the energy business, let alone specifically the natural gas business, that it was worth a million dollars?
By the way, you never answered my question: Are you an American citizen? You keep throwing around the term “we”, but a lot of people here seem to think you are not part of “we”.
And if you care so f**king much about Ukraine, why don’t you put on a camo mask, get your booster shots, grab a rifle, and go fight there yourself, you dishonest a**hole.
Tell us, who among the known nuclear powers will give up their nuclear weapons? And why? Or maybe you know of secret nuclear-armed entities ready to forfeit their weapons? Do tell…Replies: @HA, @Mr. Anon
Don’t expect an honest answer from that deceitful sack of garbage, “HA”.
Wrong again. I have repeatedly made the point that if Putin had taken over Ukraine peacefully (as he came close to doing with Yanukovych, before botching it up completely), it would have been no skin off my nose, even if it meant that Ukraine would disappear forever. The Russians had previously worked something similar out with Belarus, and I've never expressed a word of disapproval about that, either, regardless of how much the Kremlin benefits.
But when Putin or anyone else tries to carve up countries whose security assurances we ourselves helped midwife, making it that much more unlikely that any other country will willingly give up its nukes, that's an American problem. If he tries to revive a Soviet system ( whose downfall he regards as the "greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century") that will undoubtedly suck America into the same games we spent nearly half a century playing and then regretting ever since, then again, it's no longer just about Ukraine, it's an American issue. I have two world wars to back me up on that, and I don't need a third.
It's pathetic that I have to even remind you that there are some hard-learned lessons behind why Americans (and Brits, and Dutch, and Poles, etc.) frown on invasions and tanks and ripping up borders and starting landwars in Eurasia and I'm so sorry that you and senile and ignorant people like you have forgotten them (or never bothered to learn them), but that's your damage.
And I get it -- you don't have an answer for that, so you pretend this is about Ukraine, or the neo-cons, or me trying to get attention, orwhatever else pops into your fevered little head before it shuts down altogether, but again, that's only convincing to those who have bought up what the trolls are selling.Replies: @Jack D, @Jenner Ickham Errican, @YetAnotherAnon, @deep anonymous, @Mr. Anon
I didn’t midwife anything. I had no say in the terms. My government doesn’t speak for me.
The people of Iraq and Afghanistan might have a different opinion on that.
Tell us – are you an American citizen, d**khead?
Yes, a specific hypothetical in direct response to your claimed fears of real-world nuclear weapons forfeiture opportunity costs. Those, by definition, are in the future, dummy. You got busted concern trolling and have no answer, because your stated concern is moot: Your unwillingness to name nuclear powers who are waiting on the outcome of Russia vs. Ukraine to give up their nukes says it all, because you know there is no such calculus.
Go ahead, tell us which countries were about to denuclearize before Putin’s invasion. Or is it top-secret information?
“Go ahead, tell us which countries were about to denuclearize before Putin’s invasion.”
Oh, I’ll do better than that. I’ll say that the ones we’re most gonna want to denuclearize in the next couple of years will be some of the states that Russia disintegrates into. I’m not saying that’s necessarily a likely scenario, but doesn’t have to be a likely to still be the most likely. Of course, given the catastrophic consequences, even something like that which has a small likelihood can still be a serious threat.
I mean, in the same way as Russia didn’t want to deal with any neighboring states getting the USSR’s weapons, I’m guessing Muscovia or whatever that chunk of Russia will be called (Putinstan?) will be similarly loathe to get any neighbors to let go of anything nuclear they might have on hand.
Given what happened to Ukraine that would be yet another example of Moscow doing something that eventually winds up backfiring, kind of like what Gym Jordan is having to deal with now with regard to that Russian intelligence dis-information.
Sorry, “similarly loathe to get any neighbors to let go of” should actually be “similarly loathe to allow any neighbors to retain”
I don’t recall saying that it did justify the attack. I think Putin is a Russian nationalist, and will always take positions consistent with that. How balanced or even factual those positions are is another matter.
Nope.
Well, I’m happy for you that you can finally admit you were joking about the outcome of Russia vs. Ukraine having anything to do with denuclearization from an American intervention perspective. Your cathartic, rambling digression into speculative fantasy earns the “chef’s kiss” so to speak. You’ve made progress of a sort, and I’m happy I was able to help. You’re welcome.
Wait, you think I was the one who let slip the scenario in which America attacks Canada and/or Mexico?
That's not how it went down, and I think you know that, but this is proving all too typical.Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
No need to be angry. I was up for some entertainment, and HA didn’t disappoint.
Now you’re defending the idea of proportional response. As others have observed here before, you never cease to amaze with your hypocrisy.
No again, it should be loath, not loathe.
Sometimes veering to the Left is the best of bad economic choices. Take for example the newspaper and magazine business which is no longer a viable economic model for the most part. If you continue to publish a "neutral" newspaper no one will buy it. So your choice is either to throw your lot into one camp or another (political alignment produces engagement) or else go out of business. Which camp will you align with? Take NYC - in 2020, Biden received 76% of the vote to Trump’s 23% (up from 18% in 2016) - over 3 to 1. If you were a business owner in NYC, which camp would you choose if you had to choose only one?Replies: @Almost Missouri
Sam Francis said that
I disagreed, and said that
TGToD said it’s all about the money.
I had to disagree with that too, since they are evidently not making much money from wokism, at least not from their customers.
I gather you are agreeing with me—which I appreciate—saying that it’s not the money, but saying it is rather a subtle social pressure.
But I’m not sure I can agree with that either. In all of the examples I cited (media alienating their audiences, the FedGov flooding everywhere with unvetted illegals, mayors and governors ruining their cities and states), they are acting against the main social pressure they ought to be subject to.
Now maybe there is some secret Eyes Wide Shut-esque club that every CEO and politician wants so desperately to join that it overrides every normal consideration of business and statecraft, but I’m not that much of a conspiracy theorist (though every fresh newsdump makes me wonder if I should reconsider).
I had to disagree with that too, since they are evidently not making much money from wokism, at least not from their customers.
I gather you are agreeing with me—which I appreciate—saying that it's not the money, but saying it is rather a subtle social pressure.
But I'm not sure I can agree with that either. In all of the examples I cited (media alienating their audiences, the FedGov flooding everywhere with unvetted illegals, mayors and governors ruining their cities and states), they are acting against the main social pressure they ought to be subject to.
Now maybe there is some secret Eyes Wide Shut-esque club that every CEO and politician wants so desperately to join that it overrides every normal consideration of business and statecraft, but I'm not that much of a conspiracy theorist (though every fresh newsdump makes me wonder if I should reconsider).Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
Well TBH I guess I over-simplified my thinking in that comment to make it more like pub-talk. The reason I used a hip-hop song about a mugging was not just because I happen to like that track, but to illustrate that the Left project is not simply about “making” money, like any capitalist, but about *taking* money — from Whitey. The end goal of the Left is the complete eradication of the White race, and the taking of all their stuff, every last dime, every last inch.
How this connects to corporate behavior is, as I believe Jack hinted at, is as a loss-leader of sorts: corporate leadership has been advised, by both in-house counselors and, well, out-house counselors so to speak, that Whites are on their way out, they are a demographic dead-end, they will be smothered exactly according to plan — you’re watching it right now — and the New America will be essentially 100% shit-colored. So, they ought to begin preparing for this Brave New World with all these test-cases you are observing everywhere: the banishment of whites from advertising unless it’s a blonde wif a black guy, the absurd AI stuff that’s been posted here, and so forth. Everything is about getting a slice of the Future, as the racial shamans and TD / EO would have it.
Viewed from that perspective, seemingly self-damaging corporate behavior is not surprising or contradictory. It’s just a test run, a down payment on a seat at the table to come. Have you seen that gloating, racist commercial for Bulleit Whiskey?
Okay, but their legally-enforceable duty is to get a profitable slice of the present. And if they won’t, investors can find others who will. (If there aren’t others, it implies They’re All In On It, and we’re back to quasi-conspiracy theorizing—not that I rule that out, but I just want to note when we have definitively discarded all non-conspiracy theories.)
No, sorry I don’t see much TV.
This is you being ignorant of Islam and the fissures within it.
Obviously, the parallels aren’t going to be exact, but if Catholicism is more like traditional orthodox Sunni Islam (with a touch of Sufism), Martin Luther (or John Calvin or Protestantism in general) is more like Salafists who espouse a modernist reform movement that seeks to “restore” what they perceive to the “pure” practices of the early, foundational period of the religion in question (who, similar to Protestants, also emphasize reading and studying of texts for all – hence the term “Taliban” means “students”; a subset of them also advocates for the union of the civil-political and the religious as in early Protestant polities).
Again, the comparison isn’t exact, but Muhammad was more like Theodosius I.
Rome built a third.
Another Roman story. A Roman general was captured by the Carthaginians, who paroled him to take their peace terms to Rome, knowing he would honor his parole and return, and so would presumably present their terms fairly.
Dude presented the terms before the Senate, argued forcefully against accepting them, and then returned to the Carthaginians, who of course crucified him, as he knew they would.
They're hard to relate to. In a sense that doesn't apply to medieval Europeans or almost anyone around today, they're alien to us. It can get to be like reading about the Aztecs or somebody.Replies: @Almost Missouri, @Twinkie
The Romans could afford to be stubborn, because they enjoyed a large manpower advantage over their adversaries. And they had this significant manpower advantage, because they were extremely adroit in alliance-building and incorporating their allies (Socii and Foederati) into their cultural sphere.
Agree! The Romans prior to Christianization were, in many ways, a very savage and barbarous people. The father in a family, paterfamilias, for example, had the absolute power of life and death over his family members and could and did kill even his own children. Even though the Romans made much propaganda hay over child sacrifice in Punic societies, they may have engaged in their own during the desperate periods of the Second Punic War. They, in almost all periods, viciously slaughtered their prisoners in bloody public displays (Aztec-like) and others they sold to slavery (and, while slaves such as Greek tutors might have led genteel existences, those working the mines lived extremely short, nasty, and brutish lives, to be replaced by yet others).
We tend to overlook these vast differences between us and them. Hollywood doesn’t help either.
All I can say, thank God for Chirst and the Christianization of Europe.
Until the rise of gunpower weapons, human history – on both ends of the Eurasian landmass – was the story of conflict between pastoralists and agriculturalists, with the former usually stomping the latter and ruling over them as an elite superstrate (to be replaced by the next group of pastoralists).
But for some reason, at the Eastern end of Eurasia, the pastoralists kept prevailing even unto the early twentieth century. Given that I agree with J.Ross that the two most militarily formidable civilizations were Rome/Europe and China, it is a strange contrast that they had such divergent fates vis-à-vis their pastoralist neighbors for a couple of dozen centuries.Replies: @Difference Maker, @Twinkie
Bulleit has been one of my go to’s for several years now at the bar. Last year a bartender somewhere informed me that they weren’t carrying it anymore because the Bulleit family apparently disowned one of their homosexual family members. and this was the woke bar’s way is sticking it to the man.
:”Your cathartic, rambling digression into speculative fantasy…”
Wait, you think I was the one who let slip the scenario in which America attacks Canada and/or Mexico?
That’s not how it went down, and I think you know that, but this is proving all too typical.
Or when Israel starts a land war in the Middle East? Is that ok?
That might or might not be OK, but that’s not what happened. HAMAS started a land war in the Middle East on Oct. 7, not Israel. Did you forget this part ? Are you lying on purpose?
Wait, you think I was the one who let slip the scenario in which America attacks Canada and/or Mexico?
That's not how it went down, and I think you know that, but this is proving all too typical.Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
You failed to name any countries that were about to give up their nukes (because there are none), and you haven’t yet answered if you would approve or not of Putin’s interference in hypothetical future American military invasions in North America. Very suspicious.
Going from Wikipedia data, the new country had around 460 warheads in systems that could in theory have been used to usefully attack Russia (the ICBMs' minimum ranges would have limited their targeting to the Russian far east).
To do that, they'd have to undo the sabotage inflicted in these weapons as the Soviets/Russians left and created a maintenance system. They'd have to make their own nuclear power plant own control rods or repurpose ones they received from the outside so they contained lithium-6 (or a mixture of -5 and -6 would do in a pinch I think) and then harvested the tritium from them, as we the US do today. Necessary because it has a short half life of a bit over twelve years.
They'd have to learn in detail how to maintain the warheads ... which also means having confidence they'd still work without being tested (for real) and sooner or later the systems they were in. Or repurpose them for other delivery systems, explosives have a finite lifetime, ditto rocket fuels for any warheads that weren't on their turbofan power cruise missile. Repurposing would require understanding their fuzing systems, normally they're set up to not initiate unless they've been subjected to the normal stresses of being fired off.
To avoid serious diplomatic repercussions they'd have to do this in serious secrecy and with unlikely competence vs. corruption ... and Russia knew how many they had and would be able to blow the whistle, which would have been very much in their interest, if they all weren't turned in for decommissioning. From my reading Russia got them back in return for concessions in natural gas piped to the Ukraine....
Hmmm, one more point: "South Africa" "giving up its nukes" ... wouldn't that be the outgoing white government/ruling class being very sure not to leave them in the hands of the incoming negroes?
That wouldn't end well, especially since per this discussion they were inefficient U-235 gun assembly designs which are much, much simpler than the above types where weight is such a concern you use Pu-239 tritium boosted implosion fission primaries to drive the their fusion component. That is, there would be a good chance those warheads would stay functional for a very long time, and whatever propellant or explosive they use to assemble the critical mass could be easily replaced.Replies: @Jack D, @Jenner Ickham Errican
Agreed. And pastoralist enjoyed an especially noteworthy walkover of the Western Eurasian landmass in the second millennium BC. Yet from Roman times onwards, it is notable how ineffective pastoralist invasions of Europe became. Only the fearsome Huns managed a significant penetration and that was when Roman power was at a low ebb, and even they were defeated by the ramshackle and decrepit ‘Roman’ (mainly German at that point) Forces at Châlons in 451, initiating the process of turning the Huns into Hungarians. 790 years later, the even more fearsome Mongols only managed to get as far as eastern Hungary against the fissiparated medieval European kingdoms.
But for some reason, at the Eastern end of Eurasia, the pastoralists kept prevailing even unto the early twentieth century. Given that I agree with J.Ross that the two most militarily formidable civilizations were Rome/Europe and China, it is a strange contrast that they had such divergent fates vis-à-vis their pastoralist neighbors for a couple of dozen centuries.
Throughout European history, the pastoral eruptions constantly plagued the agriculturalists - the Cimmerians, the Huns (and several of the Germanic groups fleeing the Huns who overran the Romans were semi-pastoral themselves), the Magyars, the Mongols, and even the Ottoman Turks that overran much of Eastern Europea and almost conquered Vienna.The Mongol homeland was a lot closer to China than the heart of Europe was. And the Manchus (I think you mean them when you say "early twentieth century") were not pastoralists (they are actually a case of pastoralists becoming agriculturalists over a millennium and then later coopting the pastoralists and are something of an exception, though somewhat analogous to the Ottoman Turks in Europe who came to rely less on the Sipahis or the Turkish cavalry but more and more on the disciplined infantry, the Janissaries, as time went on).
But let's flip the question around. Why was there not a unified European empire since the end of Rome? Charlemagne's empire was but a fraction of what Rome did centuries earlier and broke apart as soon as he died. The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation never became what its grand name suggested. Even Napoleon and Hitler failed. Meanwhile, China remained a unitary state for more than a millennium despite its elite superstrate being replaced by the pastoralists and despite periodic civil wars and upheavals. Why?
One obvious factor is geography. For one thing, China was geographically very close to the homelands of the Turkic and Mongolic pastoralists. For another, the North China Plain made it much easier for the horse-riding pastoralists to overrun than Central and Western Europe that was full of forests, mountains, and rivers inhospitable for armies that fielded up to 10 change of mounts per each warrior.
Another factor that was a consequence of that geography was the fact that China, for much of its history, existed as a unitary, centralized state. This meant that the outside invaders only had to topple the elite superstrate of the empire to conquer it. When there was an internal dissatisfaction and dissent, the task was made all the more easier as it was possible for the invaders to coopt the disaffected dissenters.
Meanwhile, in Europe, after Rome, its variegated geography - again, lots of forests, mountains, and rivers - made centralization difficult and there existed a high degree of political and military fragmentation - which also meant there were innumerable military elites with their own political bases, fortifications and power centers, and the attendant high degree of militarization (China, like Rome, being a large, continental empire, only mobilized a tiny fraction of the population for the military). It was not possible for a small group of pastoralists - no matter how able militarily - to simply defeat an army or two of a great empire and take over the entirety of the region as new elites.
And, of course, even though gunpowder was invented in East Asia first, this high degree of political and fragmentation in Europe and the consequently intense military competition led to the Europeans harnessing gunpowder weapons to a greater degree much earlier, rendering the power of the horse-riding pastoralists sooner than at the other end of the Eurasian landmass.Replies: @BB753, @Almost Missouri
And - tell us - what service was Hunter Biden providing for Burisma. Can you? What rare business acumen is possessed by that drug-addict whore-monger train-wreck, who neither speaks Ukrainian, nor knows a single godda**ed thing about the energy business, let alone specifically the natural gas business, that it was worth a million dollars?
By the way, you never answered my question: Are you an American citizen? You keep throwing around the term "we", but a lot of people here seem to think you are not part of "we".
And if you care so f**king much about Ukraine, why don't you put on a camo mask, get your booster shots, grab a rifle, and go fight there yourself, you dishonest a**hole.Replies: @HA
“I don’t trust any of them.”
You keep insisting their evidence is true or not proven to be false. That’s not what normal people do when they get a tip from the Kremlin. That’s what desperate losers do when they have nothing better to work with, and they keep trying to keep it in play even after it has been outed as having come from Russian intelligence. Seriously, how pathetic is that?
“I didn’t midwife anything.”
Yeah, I can believe that — it’s not as if you’ve ever shown any indication here as to why anyone would consult you about anything. That goes for the Constitution and Bill of Rights, too, I’m guessing, so if you want to keep reveling in your impotence and about not having contributed to anything in this world, then by the same token, stop waving any of those around, or complaining about how anyone violated anything there.
As for the rest of us, if you or your forebears voted in any of the elections that brought about those who midwifed those agreements — or subsequently took an oath to honor and participate in the governments that signed them — you’re complicit enough. So deal with it, instead of trying to weasel out when it’s time to step up.
“By the way, you never answered my question: Are you an American citizen?”
What’s it to you, creep? Your arguments are too weak to stand on their own, so you want to try another approach?
Look, if you’re lonely and in need of a friend to inquire about, or to busy yourself in their affairs, go meet up with Mark G. — that guy seems to be as creepy in his curiosity about me as you are so the two of you already have something in common. You seem to agree on a lot of other things, too, judging by those “Agree” flags he sticks on your comments when he realizes he’s too stupid to come up with anything less pathetic. So maybe exchange info between yourselves and meet up for coffee or something, and see where it goes — no judgment on my end. But leave me out of it. There’s plenty you don’t know about me and never will, if I have my way — my age, my gender, my family, where I live, where I went to school, what I studied there, where I’ve been subsequently, etc. I’m happy to add any other question you may have about me to that long list of things that are none of your business. You can infer all you want about me, and I don’t really care, but given the creeps and weirdoes who take an inordinate interest into my affairs despite their obvious antagonism, I have no interest in revealing much of anything I haven’t already let slip.
So that means if you get riled by anything I say and want to put it down, you’ll actually have to come up with an argument, instead of desperately fishing around for ad hominems and spewing insults. Good luck with that — you’ll need it.
He’s an admitted fed and he’s working with a version of reality in which C-Span is Russian government propaganda.
That might or might not be OK, but that's not what happened. HAMAS started a land war in the Middle East on Oct. 7, not Israel. Did you forget this part ? Are you lying on purpose?Replies: @deep anonymous
Specifically I was thinking about the 1967 war, which Israel started. But I do not discount the possibility that October 7 was a false flag.
The context of your argument is the conceit that “the Ukraine gave up ‘their’ nukes,” right?
Going from Wikipedia data, the new country had around 460 warheads in systems that could in theory have been used to usefully attack Russia (the ICBMs’ minimum ranges would have limited their targeting to the Russian far east).
To do that, they’d have to undo the sabotage inflicted in these weapons as the Soviets/Russians left and created a maintenance system. They’d have to make their own nuclear power plant own control rods or repurpose ones they received from the outside so they contained lithium-6 (or a mixture of -5 and -6 would do in a pinch I think) and then harvested the tritium from them, as we the US do today. Necessary because it has a short half life of a bit over twelve years.
They’d have to learn in detail how to maintain the warheads … which also means having confidence they’d still work without being tested (for real) and sooner or later the systems they were in. Or repurpose them for other delivery systems, explosives have a finite lifetime, ditto rocket fuels for any warheads that weren’t on their turbofan power cruise missile. Repurposing would require understanding their fuzing systems, normally they’re set up to not initiate unless they’ve been subjected to the normal stresses of being fired off.
To avoid serious diplomatic repercussions they’d have to do this in serious secrecy and with unlikely competence vs. corruption … and Russia knew how many they had and would be able to blow the whistle, which would have been very much in their interest, if they all weren’t turned in for decommissioning. From my reading Russia got them back in return for concessions in natural gas piped to the Ukraine….
Hmmm, one more point: “South Africa” “giving up its nukes” … wouldn’t that be the outgoing white government/ruling class being very sure not to leave them in the hands of the incoming negroes?
That wouldn’t end well, especially since per this discussion they were inefficient U-235 gun assembly designs which are much, much simpler than the above types where weight is such a concern you use Pu-239 tritium boosted implosion fission primaries to drive the their fusion component. That is, there would be a good chance those warheads would stay functional for a very long time, and whatever propellant or explosive they use to assemble the critical mass could be easily replaced.
Before the war, Ukraine had (thanks to the Soviets) some of the largest nuclear power generation facilities in Europe and they were major exporters of electricity. And nuclear scientists and so on to maintain them. For them to tweak their facilities to produce lithium-6 and tritium would not have been impossible.
As far as delivery systems go, we have seen that Ukraine has in this war, thru various means, been able to deliver (conventional) weapons deep into Russian territory, even in Moscow, using leftover Soviet rockets, drones, drone boats, truck bombs, saboteurs, etc. They have proven themselves to be quite ingenious in making a lot out of a little and have now sunk a number of Russian warships despite not having a navy to speak of. I have no doubt that they could have delivered nuclear weapons as well if they were so inclined, and not just to the Russian far east.
IDK how the Russian ICBM's in Ukraine were programmed but surely they were made to hit targets in Europe and not just the US? The distance from Lviv to Moscow is the same as the distance to Hamburg.
Going from Wikipedia data, the new country had around 460 warheads in systems that could in theory have been used to usefully attack Russia (the ICBMs' minimum ranges would have limited their targeting to the Russian far east).
To do that, they'd have to undo the sabotage inflicted in these weapons as the Soviets/Russians left and created a maintenance system. They'd have to make their own nuclear power plant own control rods or repurpose ones they received from the outside so they contained lithium-6 (or a mixture of -5 and -6 would do in a pinch I think) and then harvested the tritium from them, as we the US do today. Necessary because it has a short half life of a bit over twelve years.
They'd have to learn in detail how to maintain the warheads ... which also means having confidence they'd still work without being tested (for real) and sooner or later the systems they were in. Or repurpose them for other delivery systems, explosives have a finite lifetime, ditto rocket fuels for any warheads that weren't on their turbofan power cruise missile. Repurposing would require understanding their fuzing systems, normally they're set up to not initiate unless they've been subjected to the normal stresses of being fired off.
To avoid serious diplomatic repercussions they'd have to do this in serious secrecy and with unlikely competence vs. corruption ... and Russia knew how many they had and would be able to blow the whistle, which would have been very much in their interest, if they all weren't turned in for decommissioning. From my reading Russia got them back in return for concessions in natural gas piped to the Ukraine....
Hmmm, one more point: "South Africa" "giving up its nukes" ... wouldn't that be the outgoing white government/ruling class being very sure not to leave them in the hands of the incoming negroes?
That wouldn't end well, especially since per this discussion they were inefficient U-235 gun assembly designs which are much, much simpler than the above types where weight is such a concern you use Pu-239 tritium boosted implosion fission primaries to drive the their fusion component. That is, there would be a good chance those warheads would stay functional for a very long time, and whatever propellant or explosive they use to assemble the critical mass could be easily replaced.Replies: @Jack D, @Jenner Ickham Errican
I won’t comment on the POLITICAL difficulty of Ukraine maintaining nukes but I think the TECHNICAL difficulties were well within their capabilities.
Before the war, Ukraine had (thanks to the Soviets) some of the largest nuclear power generation facilities in Europe and they were major exporters of electricity. And nuclear scientists and so on to maintain them. For them to tweak their facilities to produce lithium-6 and tritium would not have been impossible.
As far as delivery systems go, we have seen that Ukraine has in this war, thru various means, been able to deliver (conventional) weapons deep into Russian territory, even in Moscow, using leftover Soviet rockets, drones, drone boats, truck bombs, saboteurs, etc. They have proven themselves to be quite ingenious in making a lot out of a little and have now sunk a number of Russian warships despite not having a navy to speak of. I have no doubt that they could have delivered nuclear weapons as well if they were so inclined, and not just to the Russian far east.
IDK how the Russian ICBM’s in Ukraine were programmed but surely they were made to hit targets in Europe and not just the US? The distance from Lviv to Moscow is the same as the distance to Hamburg.
Well that was almost 60 years ago and your reference was entirely unclear.
While technically Israel fired the first shot, Egypt had illegally closed the Strait of Tiran which would have cut off Israel from its Red Sea port and the Arab armies had begun massing at its borders so Israel was not obligated to wait until they started shooting first and had the advantage. This was especially true since Israel is only 9 miles wide at its narrowest point (and that’s all the way to the coast). At 30mph (tank speed) the Jordanian tanks could have been in Tel Aviv in 20 minutes.
I do not discount the possibility that Joe Biden is actually a space lizard but I don’t seriously believe it either. One can be so open minded that your brains fall out.
Going from Wikipedia data, the new country had around 460 warheads in systems that could in theory have been used to usefully attack Russia (the ICBMs' minimum ranges would have limited their targeting to the Russian far east).
To do that, they'd have to undo the sabotage inflicted in these weapons as the Soviets/Russians left and created a maintenance system. They'd have to make their own nuclear power plant own control rods or repurpose ones they received from the outside so they contained lithium-6 (or a mixture of -5 and -6 would do in a pinch I think) and then harvested the tritium from them, as we the US do today. Necessary because it has a short half life of a bit over twelve years.
They'd have to learn in detail how to maintain the warheads ... which also means having confidence they'd still work without being tested (for real) and sooner or later the systems they were in. Or repurpose them for other delivery systems, explosives have a finite lifetime, ditto rocket fuels for any warheads that weren't on their turbofan power cruise missile. Repurposing would require understanding their fuzing systems, normally they're set up to not initiate unless they've been subjected to the normal stresses of being fired off.
To avoid serious diplomatic repercussions they'd have to do this in serious secrecy and with unlikely competence vs. corruption ... and Russia knew how many they had and would be able to blow the whistle, which would have been very much in their interest, if they all weren't turned in for decommissioning. From my reading Russia got them back in return for concessions in natural gas piped to the Ukraine....
Hmmm, one more point: "South Africa" "giving up its nukes" ... wouldn't that be the outgoing white government/ruling class being very sure not to leave them in the hands of the incoming negroes?
That wouldn't end well, especially since per this discussion they were inefficient U-235 gun assembly designs which are much, much simpler than the above types where weight is such a concern you use Pu-239 tritium boosted implosion fission primaries to drive the their fusion component. That is, there would be a good chance those warheads would stay functional for a very long time, and whatever propellant or explosive they use to assemble the critical mass could be easily replaced.Replies: @Jack D, @Jenner Ickham Errican
Are you accidentally addressing me instead of HA?
Sounds like the Marquis de Custine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_de_Custine
Also see this.
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/the-marquis-de-custine-the-grouchier-gayer-tocqueville-of-russia
And this.
https://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft3b69n83q;chunk.id=d0e893;doc.view=print
Electronic version of Volume I.
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25755
I don’t have a citation for you, but maybe you can find it with those links as a starting point?
HA makes a great target for someone who enjoys trolling trolls.
https://cdn.kastatic.org/ka-perseus-images/5e396bd030c264b95a437898526590064be5c3ea.jpgReplies: @Buzz Mohawk, @AnotherDad, @J.Ross, @Anonymous Jew
I have a new theory that Ashkenazis have a high prevalence of autism-spectrum disorders. That would explain a lot.
-------
OT -- Anon made this.
https://i.postimg.cc/DwyB64hx/1709072339037622.jpg
There’s some mathematical principle at work in how his empty replies lengthen.
The Black Death skipped Poland, because Poland quarantined. In other words, during a plague, a real nation closes its borders. The resulting population shifts (Poland keeping normal population and therefore normal economic growth while all its competitors took major hits) made it a superpower until its disloyal ruling caste (the most evil nobles in European socirty by far) cut deals and eventually allowed the Partitions.
Bubonic plague is mostly spread by fleas on small animals and they can cross borders.Replies: @J.Ross
.
This is either laughably naive or intentionally misleading.
“Lack of foresight…” This is criminally hilarious.
Do you think the top Googlers are blind to race? So “it’s just a social construct” and they just plug in the “race” feature by filling that in with Blacks!? Non Whites are just more interesting?
To date there has been a surprising Radio Silence from the Media Narrative Minders about how “racist” this AI is in fact. So by “racist” I’m meaning anti Black!. If Google’s bias was randomly stupid we’d see the all White NBA squads named “Jamal” et. al. But instead, Whites are just disappeared, South African style.
You can bet job # 1 was to eliminate reality when it made anyone look bad but Whites.
Do you think nobody at Google Beta tested this thing?
“Why are the American Founding Fathers all female and Black?”
This is just the infamous “I’m Stupid” defense.
Or maybe Google is too poor to properly Beta test their Next Big Thing.
Maybe you should start a GoFundMe for them…
Theory? I thought this was common knowledge?

——-
OT — Anon made this.
Isn’t it interesting how ISIS never attacks Israel? It’s almost like they’re a creation of the CIA or something.
Would anywhere have had the ability to seal borders in the 14th century?
Bubonic plague is mostly spread by fleas on small animals and they can cross borders.
Bubonic plague is mostly spread by fleas on small animals and they can cross borders.Replies: @J.Ross
Anyone can close their borders if they want to.
Nope, I’m just trying to provide some context for the entire discussion, that neither South Africa or the Ukraine could be considered to have “given up their nukes” in a conventional way.
I don't much care how "conventional" South Africa's denuclearization program is, the world is still likely a far safer place with having fewer things there that can go bang on a global scale. Same goes for Ukraine, and really, most other places.
And to claim now that it's no big deal for the Ukrainians to have turned all that over (not saying you did that, but just in case anyone wants to interpret it that way), one wonders why Russia was so eager that they do just that -- to the extent that they agreed, in return, to honor Ukraine's border and sovereignty thereafter.
Given that Ukraine followed through on their end -- again, however conventional that give-up was -- no one should be surprised that plenty of people in and out of Ukraine are ticked off that Moscow wasn't able to honor its own end of the bargain.
Poland’s “ruling class” were pawns of the Jews. The Jews were the true ruling class.
And then when there were revolts and the eventual overthrow of the Polish power in the region (by Russian-supported Cossacks), the hated Jewish "middleman" overseers were often massacred or suffered dispossession and expulsion, having been deprived of military protection by the Polish military nobility.
This historical episode seems to have instilled a great deal of fear among Jews about 1) Russians/Cossacks and 2) gentiles with guns.Replies: @Jack D
Oh. Bringing up SA and the former SSRs was HA’s red herring, not mine.
But for some reason, at the Eastern end of Eurasia, the pastoralists kept prevailing even unto the early twentieth century. Given that I agree with J.Ross that the two most militarily formidable civilizations were Rome/Europe and China, it is a strange contrast that they had such divergent fates vis-à-vis their pastoralist neighbors for a couple of dozen centuries.Replies: @Difference Maker, @Twinkie
Partly a matter of geography. And don’t forget that to have to keep succumbing, one has to keep reviving.
The Ming dynasty overthrew the Mongols and burned the Mongol capital in the Mongol homeland. Not the first time Chinese dynasties have dominated the steppe
The Huns in the west conquered and ruled over a great Germanic population and used such Germanic troops themselves
The Roman Empire itself succumbed to steppe pastoralists, Byzantines vs the Turks who were the most favored troops of the Muslims in the middle ages and who indeed, took over the middle east for a thousand years. Turks who the Chinese dominated for a long time with the Tang dynasty
Europe has only the Hungarian plain suitable for steppe nomadic herds, but northern China borders Mongolia. Once the northern Chinese plain has been taken over, the northern Chinese can be utilized in the southern mountainous regions. By analogy the Mongols would be mobilizing Russians to invade central Europe
Normal? You mean like you? You’re hardly normal. I don’t know if Smirnov is right or not. But what he says is completely consistent with publicly available information
And I noticed that you didn’t answer my questions about Hunter Biden. The Bidens are openly, shamelessly running an influence peddling racket which you are either a.) cool with, or b.) too stupid to notice.
There’s that “us” again. I doubt that you really are part of “us”.
Because you opine routinely on this country and it’s internal affairs If you aren’t a citizen then………what are you? A Ukrainian troll? Who knows. In any event, nobody should listen to you. Which is what I and others are attempting to do in debating you – distasteful as it is to engage with you in any way – to warn people off of you as being an untrustworthy a**hole.
Hah. Look, I’d sooner have an alligator as a friend than a deceitful piece of crap like you.
Get over yourself, you demented idiot. Nobody here “cares” about you. Nobody is interested in you. Nobody wants to be your friend. We simply don’t want to let you get away with spewing the garbage that gushes forth from your every post.
https://i.postimg.cc/659n7n96/5f6ce47485600a727e6aa89f.jpgReplies: @HA
But for some reason, at the Eastern end of Eurasia, the pastoralists kept prevailing even unto the early twentieth century. Given that I agree with J.Ross that the two most militarily formidable civilizations were Rome/Europe and China, it is a strange contrast that they had such divergent fates vis-à-vis their pastoralist neighbors for a couple of dozen centuries.Replies: @Difference Maker, @Twinkie
This is inaccurate. For example, the Huns didn’t turn into Hungarians. The Magyars were another, later Turkic superstrate that absorbed and assimilated numerous non-Turkic elements as they moved through what is today Ukraine and Eastern Europe c. 9th century AD and eventually settled on the western terminus of the great Eurasian steppes, the Hungarian plains.
Throughout European history, the pastoral eruptions constantly plagued the agriculturalists – the Cimmerians, the Huns (and several of the Germanic groups fleeing the Huns who overran the Romans were semi-pastoral themselves), the Magyars, the Mongols, and even the Ottoman Turks that overran much of Eastern Europea and almost conquered Vienna.
The Mongol homeland was a lot closer to China than the heart of Europe was. And the Manchus (I think you mean them when you say “early twentieth century”) were not pastoralists (they are actually a case of pastoralists becoming agriculturalists over a millennium and then later coopting the pastoralists and are something of an exception, though somewhat analogous to the Ottoman Turks in Europe who came to rely less on the Sipahis or the Turkish cavalry but more and more on the disciplined infantry, the Janissaries, as time went on).
But let’s flip the question around. Why was there not a unified European empire since the end of Rome? Charlemagne’s empire was but a fraction of what Rome did centuries earlier and broke apart as soon as he died. The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation never became what its grand name suggested. Even Napoleon and Hitler failed. Meanwhile, China remained a unitary state for more than a millennium despite its elite superstrate being replaced by the pastoralists and despite periodic civil wars and upheavals. Why?
One obvious factor is geography. For one thing, China was geographically very close to the homelands of the Turkic and Mongolic pastoralists. For another, the North China Plain made it much easier for the horse-riding pastoralists to overrun than Central and Western Europe that was full of forests, mountains, and rivers inhospitable for armies that fielded up to 10 change of mounts per each warrior.
Another factor that was a consequence of that geography was the fact that China, for much of its history, existed as a unitary, centralized state. This meant that the outside invaders only had to topple the elite superstrate of the empire to conquer it. When there was an internal dissatisfaction and dissent, the task was made all the more easier as it was possible for the invaders to coopt the disaffected dissenters.
Meanwhile, in Europe, after Rome, its variegated geography – again, lots of forests, mountains, and rivers – made centralization difficult and there existed a high degree of political and military fragmentation – which also meant there were innumerable military elites with their own political bases, fortifications and power centers, and the attendant high degree of militarization (China, like Rome, being a large, continental empire, only mobilized a tiny fraction of the population for the military). It was not possible for a small group of pastoralists – no matter how able militarily – to simply defeat an army or two of a great empire and take over the entirety of the region as new elites.
And, of course, even though gunpowder was invented in East Asia first, this high degree of political and fragmentation in Europe and the consequently intense military competition led to the Europeans harnessing gunpowder weapons to a greater degree much earlier, rendering the power of the horse-riding pastoralists sooner than at the other end of the Eurasian landmass.
The Huns & Magyars, despite being better armed and more advanced, only made it as far Châlons, only briefly, and replaced hardly anyone at all. The bow-wave of Germans in front of them were more successful invaders/colonizers, but they weren't really pastoralists like the Huns and Mongols.
The Mongols were the most numerous and best armed pastoralists yet, but their penetration of Europe was the shallowest, only reaching eastern Pannonia.
The Ottomans did famously reach the gates of Vienna, but they weren't pastoralists anymore at that point; they were a civilization comparable to their European adversaries, indeed, their armies were partly composed of European Janissaries.Yeah, that's probably a big part of it.Yes, "unto the early twentieth century".Right. As you say, by that point they were only descended from pastoralists, like the Ottomans in the West.
Even so, though no longer pastoralists, both groups are still visually and culturally distinct from their neighbors today.Replies: @Twinkie
It seems likely to be true. At least until recently, Russia was wildly underpopulated; whatever the inequities and insecurities of peasant life, there would have been essentially unlimited natural resources.Replies: @Anonymous, @Wielgus
The French satirist De la Bruyère (died 1696) wrote the following in Chapter 11 of The Characters:
“128. Certain wild creatures, male and female, are to be seen about the countryside, grimy, livid, burnt black by the sun, as though tethered to the soil which they dig and till with unconquerable tenacity; they appear to have an articulate voice; and when they stand upright they show a human face; they are, in fact, men; at night they creep back into dens, where they live on black bread, water and roots; they spare other men the trouble of sowing, ploughing and reaping in order to live, and thus they deserve not to go short of that bread which they have sown.” It seems 17th century French peasants led a miserable existence, with frequent famines. Perhaps indeed worse than Russian ones.
Spared neither land nor gold,
Nor son nor wife, nor limb nor life,
In the brave days of old.
XXXII
Then none was for a party;
Then all were for the state;
Then the great man helped the poor,
And the poor man loved the great:
Then lands were fairly portioned;
Then spoils were fairly sold:
The Romans were like brothers
In the brave days of old.
XXXIII
Now Roman is to Roman
More hateful than a foe,
And the Tribunes beard the high,
And the Fathers grind the low.
As we wax hot in faction,
In battle we wax cold:
Wherefore men fight not as they fought
In the brave days of old.
—Thomas Babington MacAuley
Reminds me of something or other . . .Replies: @BB753
Medieval Europeans would certainly strike you as almost equally alien if you researched long enough on the topic. For different reasons, obviously.
Joseph Henrich delves into this a great deal, especially on the dramatic psychological changes the Western European underwent during the medieval period due to that Christianization.Replies: @BB753
Throughout European history, the pastoral eruptions constantly plagued the agriculturalists - the Cimmerians, the Huns (and several of the Germanic groups fleeing the Huns who overran the Romans were semi-pastoral themselves), the Magyars, the Mongols, and even the Ottoman Turks that overran much of Eastern Europea and almost conquered Vienna.The Mongol homeland was a lot closer to China than the heart of Europe was. And the Manchus (I think you mean them when you say "early twentieth century") were not pastoralists (they are actually a case of pastoralists becoming agriculturalists over a millennium and then later coopting the pastoralists and are something of an exception, though somewhat analogous to the Ottoman Turks in Europe who came to rely less on the Sipahis or the Turkish cavalry but more and more on the disciplined infantry, the Janissaries, as time went on).
But let's flip the question around. Why was there not a unified European empire since the end of Rome? Charlemagne's empire was but a fraction of what Rome did centuries earlier and broke apart as soon as he died. The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation never became what its grand name suggested. Even Napoleon and Hitler failed. Meanwhile, China remained a unitary state for more than a millennium despite its elite superstrate being replaced by the pastoralists and despite periodic civil wars and upheavals. Why?
One obvious factor is geography. For one thing, China was geographically very close to the homelands of the Turkic and Mongolic pastoralists. For another, the North China Plain made it much easier for the horse-riding pastoralists to overrun than Central and Western Europe that was full of forests, mountains, and rivers inhospitable for armies that fielded up to 10 change of mounts per each warrior.
Another factor that was a consequence of that geography was the fact that China, for much of its history, existed as a unitary, centralized state. This meant that the outside invaders only had to topple the elite superstrate of the empire to conquer it. When there was an internal dissatisfaction and dissent, the task was made all the more easier as it was possible for the invaders to coopt the disaffected dissenters.
Meanwhile, in Europe, after Rome, its variegated geography - again, lots of forests, mountains, and rivers - made centralization difficult and there existed a high degree of political and military fragmentation - which also meant there were innumerable military elites with their own political bases, fortifications and power centers, and the attendant high degree of militarization (China, like Rome, being a large, continental empire, only mobilized a tiny fraction of the population for the military). It was not possible for a small group of pastoralists - no matter how able militarily - to simply defeat an army or two of a great empire and take over the entirety of the region as new elites.
And, of course, even though gunpowder was invented in East Asia first, this high degree of political and fragmentation in Europe and the consequently intense military competition led to the Europeans harnessing gunpowder weapons to a greater degree much earlier, rendering the power of the horse-riding pastoralists sooner than at the other end of the Eurasian landmass.Replies: @BB753, @Almost Missouri
The Golden Horde retreated to Crimea, where Tatars still live as a minority heavily mixed with the Russians.
Surely not originally?
Reminder that it came out in 2016 that these people are literally demon worshippers and the demons feed on negativity. What a fed doesn’t want to see is joy.

“Fetish” is what is not only allowed, but even celebrated in our hedonistic age.
Ideal government is authoritarian with clear rules. Humans are not truly rational creatures, particularly in large groups. There are limitations to what many humans are capable of. We are not served by intelligent people in our government or leadership positions making policies on the assumption that all other humans are like them.
This didn’t happen overnight, or since the 1960s or 1860s, so it will take awhile to fix it. Perhaps a slow cultural, political, and legal witting away of the conceit, or “fetish” for, of democracy and the idea of humans as rational beings.
A return to traditional ideas of civilization and hierarchy as a bulwark against barbarism and chaos and man’s fallen nature. Not jingoism or vigilantism. Not messianism or unnecessary competition. All of those “isms” have been produced by Anglo-American conceits. No utopian ideologies of the kinds that produced the horrors of the 20th century.
I’m under no illusions, Corvinus. This will probably never happen in this country.
You’re fitting right in.
“Ideal government is authoritarian with clear rules.”
Right, according to those are in control. “Follow my orders. shut your mouth, certain groups get privileges and you do not because I know what is good for you” has been the general path that authoritarians take. The historic problem with that approach is that people enjoy their liberty and the ability to dissent from “clear” laws or rules that they deem to be oppressive. So, as a result, groups align with one another and seek to make reforms. Generally, the authoritarians take umbrage to this approach and thus take measures to, shall we say, put them in their proper place.
“are not truly rational creatures, particularly in large groups are limitations to what many humans are capable of. “
Yet the authoritarian ruler is rational? According to who and by what metrics?
Listen, humans have created governments, constitutions, and legal frameworks that are fairly effective for large groups. The problem here is that you are no fan of individual or group freedom; as a result, you make these generalizations.
Furthermore, each person is more than capable of deciding for themselves what are and what are their limitations. You seem to be of the notion that you know better or have more insight compared to other people, which to me is a sign of a superiority complex.
“We are not served by intelligent people in our government or leadership positions making policies on the assumption that all other humans are like them.”
I will ask again. Who do you believe currently has the skill set to be this potent authoritarian leader? Why?
It seems to me that if you are touting this form of government, you hs someone in mind to be at the helm.
“Perhaps a slow cultural, political, and legal witting away of the conceit, or “fetish” for, of democracy and the idea of humans as rational beings.”
Nope. Not going to happen, nor should it happen.
“A return to traditional ideas of civilization and hierarchy”
According to which civilization? According to which culture? There are competing notions of “traditional ideas”.
“Not jingoism or vigilantism. Not messianism or unnecessary competition. All of those “isms” have been produced by Anglo-American conceits.”
In your opinion.
Alien certainly, but not “equally.” Western Christianization was what decisively altered the Western Europeans away from the tribalism that was common in all pre-Christian societies.
Joseph Henrich delves into this a great deal, especially on the dramatic psychological changes the Western European underwent during the medieval period due to that Christianization.
The Goden Horde was almost entirely a Kipchak polity with a tiny sliver of Mongols at the top. Volga, Crimean, and Siberian Tatars all have different origins are not the same people genetically. Unsurprisingly, (“the Tatar Yoke”) lots of Russian noble houses have Tatar ancestry of one sort or another.
It’s the other way around. When the Polish nobles (temporarily) became the dominant social class of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, they delegated the taxing of their new vast estates in the east to the Jewish tax farmers and money lenders. So, the Jews effectively became the local rulers of the Lithuanian and Ukrainian peasantry (whom they tyrannized and oppressed). This is the same period during which the Jewish population exploded in the region and enjoyed a great deal of prosperity.
And then when there were revolts and the eventual overthrow of the Polish power in the region (by Russian-supported Cossacks), the hated Jewish “middleman” overseers were often massacred or suffered dispossession and expulsion, having been deprived of military protection by the Polish military nobility.
This historical episode seems to have instilled a great deal of fear among Jews about 1) Russians/Cossacks and 2) gentiles with guns.
In 1700 (perhaps peak prosperity for the Commonwealth and its Jews), the Jewish population of E. Europe was less than 600k people. There then was a population explosion which coincided with the economic and political collapse of the Commonwealth and in 1939 there were 8.2 million (mostly very poor) Jews.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1357607/historical-jewish-population/Replies: @Twinkie
unitariansMohammedans did not, and never will.Though this guy is working on it:https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/UsamaDakdokReplies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three KingdomsMohammedans are a problem. For reference of comparison, the Franks and Tang clashed with the Arabs at the same time period at Tours and Talas, respectively.

But the thirteen centuries since, that civilization boundary between Muslims and Chinese have remained unchanged. Whereas Europeans and Russians have went in and colonized large swathes of it.
In Xinjiang Mo’s going “Aloha Snackbar” was also a constant thorn, which is why CCP keeps an iron hand on it till this day.
In the example of General Tso, or Zuo Zongtang, he resolved to defeat a Mo rebellion, lingchi’ed its leaders, executed their nine familial relations, but left most of the general populace alone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungan_Revolt_(1862–1877)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qing_reconquest_of_Xinjiang
That kept Xinjiang relative peaceful for a half century; and in doing so regained Han Chinese control of Qing military from the Manchus.
We have mounting problems here at home we need to focus on. We need to end the trillion dollar a year deficits. We need to fix the broken immigration system. We need to take control of the education system away from the wokesters. We need to look for new energy sources to maintain our standard of living, not spend time blowing up pipelines over in Europe. Trying to figure out who the good guys are in every ethnic or religious feud on the planet so we can send them money is very low on the list of what we should be doing.Replies: @J.Ross, @Mr. Anon, @Joe Stalin, @Jack D, @YetAnotherAnon, @HA, @Brutusale
I hope that the Kiev Kokehead is ready for the response from Trump.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/playing-fire-zelensky-questions-trumps-patriotism-cnn-interview
Yeah, I'm also curious what Trump has to say about the Russian state media who tel us that "Trump supporters are ‘not very smart,’ ‘rednecks,’ and ‘primitive people’ who you have to talk to with ‘cliches and dumb slogans,’” not to mention the fact that Putin himself stated that "he would prefer a Biden victory".Replies: @Brutusale
Joseph Henrich delves into this a great deal, especially on the dramatic psychological changes the Western European underwent during the medieval period due to that Christianization.Replies: @BB753
Agreed but you underestimate to what degree the West has undergone de-christianization since the early XIXth century. In Western Europe, probably about 80 % of the population are atheists or practice some other religion. And religion has been banished from public life. Christendom is no more, at least in the West.
Much Christian culture and mode of thinking skill pervade. Re-paganization of psychology hasn't happened (yet).Replies: @BB753
“I don’t know if Smirnov is right or not. But what he says is completely consistent with publicly available information”
Such a shame that Gym Jordan didn’t stick with that, instead of relying on Russian intelligence for his content and support. See, maybe if you weren’t so lazy that you could do your own research instead of waiting for Moscow to spoon feed you, you and he wouldn’t be in this mess.
“And I noticed that you didn’t answer my questions about Hunter Biden.”
Next time, don’t dilute your comments with weird fishing into my personal affairs and focus on what actually matters. And like I said — do your own research on Hunter and stop begging me for answers.
“Nobody here ‘cares’ about you.”
Good, then we can stop the creepy inquisitiveness into things that are none of your business. And as for all those times I’ve been told time and again that I am ignored and not cared about — I think Yogi Berra would have had a good way of answering that. For now, I’ll just say I’ll maybe start to believe that you and Mark G and all the rest who claim they don’t care when you finally find the gumption to refrain from replying to me. Until then, like most of your drivel, pretending not to care seems like hollow bluster.
One of the main reasons Trump rose to prominence in the Republican party was that he said the Iraq war was a mistake. He wanted to replace the neocon interventionist policy with an America First policy. Many of the neocons have migrated over to the Democrat party where they now push for an America Last and Ukraine First policy.Replies: @Mr. Anon, @HA
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/playing-fire-zelensky-questions-trumps-patriotism-cnn-interviewReplies: @HA
“I hope that the Kiev Kokehead is ready for the response from Trump.”
Yeah, I’m also curious what Trump has to say about the Russian state media who tel us that “Trump supporters are ‘not very smart,’ ‘rednecks,’ and ‘primitive people’ who you have to talk to with ‘cliches and dumb slogans,’” not to mention the fact that Putin himself stated that “he would prefer a Biden victory”.
The other little guy in the area is now chiming in. His concerns, however, are existential.
We'll see if either has a lot to say after November.
https://i.postimg.cc/659n7n96/5f6ce47485600a727e6aa89f.jpgReplies: @HA
“What a fed doesn’t want to see is joy.”
Yes, and let’s all be thankful that Putin and his adorable and oh-so-manly dancing sailors, so bubbly and effervescent, judging from your photo, are still around to fill us all with that joy that comes from not having to be around anything remotely gay.
Any alternate explanations for why there has been so little noise around Black History Month this year?
“neither South Africa or the Ukraine could be considered to have “given up their nukes” in a conventional way.”
I don’t much care how “conventional” South Africa’s denuclearization program is, the world is still likely a far safer place with having fewer things there that can go bang on a global scale. Same goes for Ukraine, and really, most other places.
And to claim now that it’s no big deal for the Ukrainians to have turned all that over (not saying you did that, but just in case anyone wants to interpret it that way), one wonders why Russia was so eager that they do just that — to the extent that they agreed, in return, to honor Ukraine’s border and sovereignty thereafter.
Given that Ukraine followed through on their end — again, however conventional that give-up was — no one should be surprised that plenty of people in and out of Ukraine are ticked off that Moscow wasn’t able to honor its own end of the bargain.
I am for a negotiated settlement to end this war. Trump has said he would end the war within 24 hours if elected. Since the Ukrainians could not win a military victory in that time frame, the clear implication is that Trump also wants a negotiated settlement. Is Trump a Putin fanboy? A recent Harris poll shows two thirds of Americans want a negotiated settlement. Are two thirds of Americans Putin fanboys?
One of the main reasons Trump rose to prominence in the Republican party was that he said the Iraq war was a mistake. He wanted to replace the neocon interventionist policy with an America First policy. Many of the neocons have migrated over to the Democrat party where they now push for an America Last and Ukraine First policy.
Take it up with Putin -- anyone who follows his trolls in the way I have will soon realize that what Applebaum said about him back in November still holds:And really, given that he thinks the Trump wing of the Republicans -- and that includes stooges like you -- will give him anything he wants, why would he settle for anything other than Ukraine's total capitulation, and what's more, assurances that NATO will divest itself of any territory it "occupies" east of Berlin or anything else he decides he wants on the plane ride to these cease-fire negotiations? You and the stooges will gladly give him all that and more.Replies: @Ennui, @The Germ Theory of Disease
"128. Certain wild creatures, male and female, are to be seen about the countryside, grimy, livid, burnt black by the sun, as though tethered to the soil which they dig and till with unconquerable tenacity; they appear to have an articulate voice; and when they stand upright they show a human face; they are, in fact, men; at night they creep back into dens, where they live on black bread, water and roots; they spare other men the trouble of sowing, ploughing and reaping in order to live, and thus they deserve not to go short of that bread which they have sown." It seems 17th century French peasants led a miserable existence, with frequent famines. Perhaps indeed worse than Russian ones.Replies: @Anonymous
The Africans who were brought to the American territories (the so-called “slaves”) enjoyed a better quality of life than the median European of the times.
Oh, I am aware. I’ve been to many European cathedrals.
Much Christian culture and mode of thinking skill pervade. Re-paganization of psychology hasn’t happened (yet).
Partially, yes. Even in America, with thousands of protestant sects. The moment civil life becomes secular, you no longer live in a Christian society.Replies: @Twinkie
Well, if we just pared it down to Black History Afternoon, there might be something to chew on which wasn’t downright insulting…
Not if the U.S. continues to import Indians (dot), the Chinese, and, of course, South Koreans.!Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
“Not if the U.S. continues to import Indians (dot), the Chinese, and, of course, South Koreans.!”
So… Not if the U.S. stops being the U.S.! And continues to turn into nothing more than an international parking lot-slash-battered womens shelter.
OK, so you hate the American people, also known as white people. We get it. So go live in Myanmar. You’ll never have to see one of us pale sickly Jesus-botherers around ever again. But you won’t do that, of course.
Which is how we mathematicians say, You’re an A$$HOLE.
The U.S. stopped being the U.S. when it imported German and Irish Catholics. Or was it when the Chinese barged in. Or could it those pesky Poles or Italians or Serbs after 1900. No, it was those damn boat people from ‘Nam in the 1070s.
“OK, so you hate the American people, also known as white people.”
The American people run the gamut of race and ethnicity. Remember, We The People.
And then when there were revolts and the eventual overthrow of the Polish power in the region (by Russian-supported Cossacks), the hated Jewish "middleman" overseers were often massacred or suffered dispossession and expulsion, having been deprived of military protection by the Polish military nobility.
This historical episode seems to have instilled a great deal of fear among Jews about 1) Russians/Cossacks and 2) gentiles with guns.Replies: @Jack D
These are two mutually incompatible things for a middle man group. You only need so many tax farmers. The tavernkeeper in a town with one tavern might be prosperous but if there are 10 tavernkeepers competing for the same customers then none of them are going to do well.
In 1700 (perhaps peak prosperity for the Commonwealth and its Jews), the Jewish population of E. Europe was less than 600k people. There then was a population explosion which coincided with the economic and political collapse of the Commonwealth and in 1939 there were 8.2 million (mostly very poor) Jews.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1357607/historical-jewish-population/
One of the main reasons Trump rose to prominence in the Republican party was that he said the Iraq war was a mistake. He wanted to replace the neocon interventionist policy with an America First policy. Many of the neocons have migrated over to the Democrat party where they now push for an America Last and Ukraine First policy.Replies: @Mr. Anon, @HA
HA, brave hero of the keyboard front, wants as many Ukrainians and Russians to die as possible. And anybody who thinks otherwise he lazily derides as a “Putin fanboy”. HA is a chicken-s**t armchair warrior of the kind that flourishes in the neo-con ranks and apparently also in whatever foreign country we may assume he comes from. If he really had the courage of his convictions, so loudly and snottily professed here, he would go to Ukraine to pick up an AK-47 and fight the Russian foe. But he won’t. He is a coward and a blowhard.
As for where HA lives, he could easily be American. Most Americans aren’t Putin fanboys. This site is not representative. You need to read around more.
Most people don’t want war but that doesn’t mean they like Putin.Replies: @Mark G., @Mr. Anon, @Reg Cæsar
In 1700 (perhaps peak prosperity for the Commonwealth and its Jews), the Jewish population of E. Europe was less than 600k people. There then was a population explosion which coincided with the economic and political collapse of the Commonwealth and in 1939 there were 8.2 million (mostly very poor) Jews.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1357607/historical-jewish-population/Replies: @Twinkie
The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth might have collapsed politically, but that doesn’t mean there was an economic collapse.
Note that the general Polish population rose from 1800 and on dramatically as well. Between 1800 and 1900, it increased 2.5 times.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1016947/total-population-poland-1900-2020/
What’s being confounded here is the general increase in population, likely from improved hygiene, nutrition, and the like.
One of the main reasons Trump rose to prominence in the Republican party was that he said the Iraq war was a mistake. He wanted to replace the neocon interventionist policy with an America First policy. Many of the neocons have migrated over to the Democrat party where they now push for an America Last and Ukraine First policy.Replies: @Mr. Anon, @HA
“I am for a negotiated settlement to end this war.”
Take it up with Putin — anyone who follows his trolls in the way I have will soon realize that what Applebaum said about him back in November still holds:
And really, given that he thinks the Trump wing of the Republicans — and that includes stooges like you — will give him anything he wants, why would he settle for anything other than Ukraine’s total capitulation, and what’s more, assurances that NATO will divest itself of any territory it “occupies” east of Berlin or anything else he decides he wants on the plane ride to these cease-fire negotiations? You and the stooges will gladly give him all that and more.
-- signed, the Funniest English Writer Ever
(Oh, an' if I thought so, I'd beat him like a dog.
-- Thy exquisite reason, good sir knight?
I have no exquisite reason... but I have reason enough.)
Much Christian culture and mode of thinking skill pervade. Re-paganization of psychology hasn't happened (yet).Replies: @BB753
“Re-paganization of psychology hasn’t happened (yet).”
Partially, yes. Even in America, with thousands of protestant sects. The moment civil life becomes secular, you no longer live in a Christian society.
This isn't going to be unmade quickly just because the society is more secular. A lot of secular institutions and movements today are still very ersatz-Christian. Just like there is A LOT of ruin in a great nation, there is a lot of ruin left in a great Christian society.
Yeah, I'm also curious what Trump has to say about the Russian state media who tel us that "Trump supporters are ‘not very smart,’ ‘rednecks,’ and ‘primitive people’ who you have to talk to with ‘cliches and dumb slogans,’” not to mention the fact that Putin himself stated that "he would prefer a Biden victory".Replies: @Brutusale
Yeah, the pipsqueak who didn’t squeak a peep once while Trump was president sure has his swag on now, huh? He was freed to act by the American electorate four years ago.
The other little guy in the area is now chiming in. His concerns, however, are existential.
We’ll see if either has a lot to say after November.
Throughout European history, the pastoral eruptions constantly plagued the agriculturalists - the Cimmerians, the Huns (and several of the Germanic groups fleeing the Huns who overran the Romans were semi-pastoral themselves), the Magyars, the Mongols, and even the Ottoman Turks that overran much of Eastern Europea and almost conquered Vienna.The Mongol homeland was a lot closer to China than the heart of Europe was. And the Manchus (I think you mean them when you say "early twentieth century") were not pastoralists (they are actually a case of pastoralists becoming agriculturalists over a millennium and then later coopting the pastoralists and are something of an exception, though somewhat analogous to the Ottoman Turks in Europe who came to rely less on the Sipahis or the Turkish cavalry but more and more on the disciplined infantry, the Janissaries, as time went on).
But let's flip the question around. Why was there not a unified European empire since the end of Rome? Charlemagne's empire was but a fraction of what Rome did centuries earlier and broke apart as soon as he died. The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation never became what its grand name suggested. Even Napoleon and Hitler failed. Meanwhile, China remained a unitary state for more than a millennium despite its elite superstrate being replaced by the pastoralists and despite periodic civil wars and upheavals. Why?
One obvious factor is geography. For one thing, China was geographically very close to the homelands of the Turkic and Mongolic pastoralists. For another, the North China Plain made it much easier for the horse-riding pastoralists to overrun than Central and Western Europe that was full of forests, mountains, and rivers inhospitable for armies that fielded up to 10 change of mounts per each warrior.
Another factor that was a consequence of that geography was the fact that China, for much of its history, existed as a unitary, centralized state. This meant that the outside invaders only had to topple the elite superstrate of the empire to conquer it. When there was an internal dissatisfaction and dissent, the task was made all the more easier as it was possible for the invaders to coopt the disaffected dissenters.
Meanwhile, in Europe, after Rome, its variegated geography - again, lots of forests, mountains, and rivers - made centralization difficult and there existed a high degree of political and military fragmentation - which also meant there were innumerable military elites with their own political bases, fortifications and power centers, and the attendant high degree of militarization (China, like Rome, being a large, continental empire, only mobilized a tiny fraction of the population for the military). It was not possible for a small group of pastoralists - no matter how able militarily - to simply defeat an army or two of a great empire and take over the entirety of the region as new elites.
And, of course, even though gunpowder was invented in East Asia first, this high degree of political and fragmentation in Europe and the consequently intense military competition led to the Europeans harnessing gunpowder weapons to a greater degree much earlier, rendering the power of the horse-riding pastoralists sooner than at the other end of the Eurasian landmass.Replies: @BB753, @Almost Missouri
Okay, but explain that to the Hungarians. BTW, if you know of any ancient DNA surveys of this, I would read it.
Well, the big pastoral eruption was the Indo-Europeans who made Europe into Europe, and who reached as far as Ireland and Iberia, which no subsequent pastoralists did. They not only reached Europe’s western shores and islands, but replaced nearly every native male on the way.
The Huns & Magyars, despite being better armed and more advanced, only made it as far Châlons, only briefly, and replaced hardly anyone at all. The bow-wave of Germans in front of them were more successful invaders/colonizers, but they weren’t really pastoralists like the Huns and Mongols.
The Mongols were the most numerous and best armed pastoralists yet, but their penetration of Europe was the shallowest, only reaching eastern Pannonia.
The Ottomans did famously reach the gates of Vienna, but they weren’t pastoralists anymore at that point; they were a civilization comparable to their European adversaries, indeed, their armies were partly composed of European Janissaries.
Yeah, that’s probably a big part of it.
Yes, “unto the early twentieth century”.
Right. As you say, by that point they were only descended from pastoralists, like the Ottomans in the West.
Even so, though no longer pastoralists, both groups are still visually and culturally distinct from their neighbors today.
https://www.worldhistory.org/uploads/images/11309.png
Second, consider the possibility that the earlier pastoralists were greatly aided by the animal-borne diseases they brought with them, to which the agriculturalists likely had little to no immunity. We have a modern example of this - the conquest of the Americas by the Europeans whose large-scale invasions were preceded by the devastating diseases they brought (once the small group of initial Europeans landed in the Americas, these diseases arrived ahead of the main body of the European armies through transmission among the natives and absolutely wrecked the native population centers, which resulted not only in the deaths of many native leaders and warriors, but also caused a great deal of social disturbance and even civil wars that aided the conquest by the outsiders immensely). A similarly dynamic was likely in place when the early pastoralists invaded the lands of the early agriculturalists who were naive to the animal-borne diseases to which the pastoralists had immunity.That's because the Huns were but a small fraction of the confederations they built and led. The Germanic peoples were far larger in number (being only semi-pastoralists in some cases and mostly agriculturalists). Initially they were either subjugated by the Hunnic elite or were fleeing from them in terror, but once the Hunnic leadership became fractured and engaged in a series of civil wars, they were overcome (as the Mongols were later by their larger Turkic confederates and subjects in most of the areas they conquered).The Mongols were in control of the largest empire ever known to man and ruled over vastly richer realms such as China, Persia, etc. Not only was the terrain of Central and Western Europe inhospitable to their mounted armies (again, the Hungarian plain is the western terminus of the great Eurasian steppes), they had little interest in the relatively poor Western Europeans who were so far from their homeland. Critiquing the Mongols this way is similar to asserting that "Even the Romans were not able to conquer Scotland." This might be soothing to the modern Scottish national psyche, but to the ancient Romans, Caledonia was a poor, distant land with little to offer that was more hassle than was worth.Both the Manchus and the Turks are actually more similar genetically to their neighbors than is indicated by "cultural" differences. In the case of the Manchus, due to intermarriage with the Han Chinese, there aren't many pure Manchus left. In the case of the Turks (of Anatolia), they are genetically mostly the descendants of the native populations (Greeks, Armenians, etc.) of the area intermixed with a thinner superstrate of the Turkish invaders (who, by that time, were already heavily intermixed).
Right, Russia was very eager to resolve the problems between Jews and peasants precisely because the partition it was acquiring made every promise of being an agricultural ATM, not because they cared about either party.
Yes, it’s literally the “let’s you and him fight” cartoon. This is partly why Putin sometimes sent assets he wouldn’t mind losing. Lots of border still to be defended.
“Fetish” is what is not only allowed, but even celebrated in our hedonistic age.”
You’re fitting right in.
“Ideal government is authoritarian with clear rules.”
Right, according to those are in control. “Follow my orders. shut your mouth, certain groups get privileges and you do not because I know what is good for you” has been the general path that authoritarians take. The historic problem with that approach is that people enjoy their liberty and the ability to dissent from “clear” laws or rules that they deem to be oppressive. So, as a result, groups align with one another and seek to make reforms. Generally, the authoritarians take umbrage to this approach and thus take measures to, shall we say, put them in their proper place.
“are not truly rational creatures, particularly in large groups are limitations to what many humans are capable of. “
Yet the authoritarian ruler is rational? According to who and by what metrics?
Listen, humans have created governments, constitutions, and legal frameworks that are fairly effective for large groups. The problem here is that you are no fan of individual or group freedom; as a result, you make these generalizations.
Furthermore, each person is more than capable of deciding for themselves what are and what are their limitations. You seem to be of the notion that you know better or have more insight compared to other people, which to me is a sign of a superiority complex.
“We are not served by intelligent people in our government or leadership positions making policies on the assumption that all other humans are like them.”
I will ask again. Who do you believe currently has the skill set to be this potent authoritarian leader? Why?
It seems to me that if you are touting this form of government, you hs someone in mind to be at the helm.
“Perhaps a slow cultural, political, and legal witting away of the conceit, or “fetish” for, of democracy and the idea of humans as rational beings.”
Nope. Not going to happen, nor should it happen.
“A return to traditional ideas of civilization and hierarchy”
According to which civilization? According to which culture? There are competing notions of “traditional ideas”.
“Not jingoism or vigilantism. Not messianism or unnecessary competition. All of those “isms” have been produced by Anglo-American conceits.”
In your opinion.
So... Not if the U.S. stops being the U.S.! And continues to turn into nothing more than an international parking lot-slash-battered womens shelter.
OK, so you hate the American people, also known as white people. We get it. So go live in Myanmar. You'll never have to see one of us pale sickly Jesus-botherers around ever again. But you won't do that, of course.
Which is how we mathematicians say, You're an A$$HOLE.Replies: @Corvinus
“Not if the U.S. stops being the U.S.! “
The U.S. stopped being the U.S. when it imported German and Irish Catholics. Or was it when the Chinese barged in. Or could it those pesky Poles or Italians or Serbs after 1900. No, it was those damn boat people from ‘Nam in the 1070s.
“OK, so you hate the American people, also known as white people.”
The American people run the gamut of race and ethnicity. Remember, We The People.
Take it up with Putin -- anyone who follows his trolls in the way I have will soon realize that what Applebaum said about him back in November still holds:And really, given that he thinks the Trump wing of the Republicans -- and that includes stooges like you -- will give him anything he wants, why would he settle for anything other than Ukraine's total capitulation, and what's more, assurances that NATO will divest itself of any territory it "occupies" east of Berlin or anything else he decides he wants on the plane ride to these cease-fire negotiations? You and the stooges will gladly give him all that and more.Replies: @Ennui, @The Germ Theory of Disease
We aren’t giving him anything. As you and Jack D like to point out, it isn’t ours to give. I’d add it isn’t ours to defend either.
We are “giving” piles of cash to Ukroid parasites who keep demanding more. They have their hand in our pocket, not Putin.
None of us care what happens to your cousins, HA. I just hope they suffer tremendously.
Take it up with Putin -- anyone who follows his trolls in the way I have will soon realize that what Applebaum said about him back in November still holds:And really, given that he thinks the Trump wing of the Republicans -- and that includes stooges like you -- will give him anything he wants, why would he settle for anything other than Ukraine's total capitulation, and what's more, assurances that NATO will divest itself of any territory it "occupies" east of Berlin or anything else he decides he wants on the plane ride to these cease-fire negotiations? You and the stooges will gladly give him all that and more.Replies: @Ennui, @The Germ Theory of Disease
Malvolio, Malvolio, thy wits the Heavens restore! Endeavor thyself to sleep, and leave thy vain bibble-babble.
— signed, the Funniest English Writer Ever
(Oh, an’ if I thought so, I’d beat him like a dog.
— Thy exquisite reason, good sir knight?
I have no exquisite reason… but I have reason enough.)
Indeed, some of the most productive agricultural lands in Europe were located in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and whoever controlled it benefitted from it mightily whether it be the Jewish tax farmer class or the Russian overlords who arrived later.
The Jews of the Pale DID benefit from its agricultural riches but not mainly thru tax farming. Jews were involved in value added industries - my grandfather had a mill where he would transform low value grain and logs into higher value flour and lumber. Other Jews were involved in leather tanning, shoe, textile and cloth making, etc. Some would buy local geese and cattle and transport them to higher value urban markets. Otherwise, if you grew a goose in a rural area there was no one to buy it for cash - all the other farmers had their own geese and didn't need yours. Others were involved in provided desired goods and services to the local agricultural population. Blacksmithing was a Jewish trade. Others have spoken here of the small town American South and West where the local Jewish shopkeeper was a beloved figure because without him there was no place to buy anything if you needed buttons or thread or a tool or pan or whatever - people would grow their own food but you needed a shop for some things. And yes this included alcohol - sometimes a man builds up a thirst and wants a place to quench it. The notion that Jews were some kind of parasitical population that sucked the blood of the noble peasants is just Nazi bullshit. The Jews could not have lived in E. Europe for 1,000 years as parasites.
Even Gypsies were not parasites. They made their living mainly as "tinkers". This suited their itinerant lifestyle because you only need tinkering (retinning and repairing pots and pans) once in a while. Once a year the gypsy tinkers would roll into town and everyone would come out with their leaky dented pans and such and the gypsies would fix them up as good as new. Then they would roll out of town to the next village. The women would offer to tell your fortune - something else you don't need on a daily basis but once a year is entertaining. Maybe a few chickens went missing when they left - whadaya whadaya.Replies: @Twinkie
Partially, yes. Even in America, with thousands of protestant sects. The moment civil life becomes secular, you no longer live in a Christian society.Replies: @Twinkie
The medieval Catholic family planning (no cousin marriage!) actually altered the psychology of the Europeans who were thusly affected (you can actually see this very clearly when you compare the areas in Italy that were controlled by the Church vs. other parts that remained outside it and remained highly clannish).
This isn’t going to be unmade quickly just because the society is more secular. A lot of secular institutions and movements today are still very ersatz-Christian. Just like there is A LOT of ruin in a great nation, there is a lot of ruin left in a great Christian society.
There was no Jewish tax farmer “class”. Tax farmer is a very elite occupation – you only need one tax farmer per territory. The Jews of the Pale, even in 1700 when there were under a million of them, could not have all made a living as tax farmers, not even a small fraction of them.
The Jews of the Pale DID benefit from its agricultural riches but not mainly thru tax farming. Jews were involved in value added industries – my grandfather had a mill where he would transform low value grain and logs into higher value flour and lumber. Other Jews were involved in leather tanning, shoe, textile and cloth making, etc. Some would buy local geese and cattle and transport them to higher value urban markets. Otherwise, if you grew a goose in a rural area there was no one to buy it for cash – all the other farmers had their own geese and didn’t need yours. Others were involved in provided desired goods and services to the local agricultural population. Blacksmithing was a Jewish trade. Others have spoken here of the small town American South and West where the local Jewish shopkeeper was a beloved figure because without him there was no place to buy anything if you needed buttons or thread or a tool or pan or whatever – people would grow their own food but you needed a shop for some things. And yes this included alcohol – sometimes a man builds up a thirst and wants a place to quench it. The notion that Jews were some kind of parasitical population that sucked the blood of the noble peasants is just Nazi bullshit. The Jews could not have lived in E. Europe for 1,000 years as parasites.
Even Gypsies were not parasites. They made their living mainly as “tinkers”. This suited their itinerant lifestyle because you only need tinkering (retinning and repairing pots and pans) once in a while. Once a year the gypsy tinkers would roll into town and everyone would come out with their leaky dented pans and such and the gypsies would fix them up as good as new. Then they would roll out of town to the next village. The women would offer to tell your fortune – something else you don’t need on a daily basis but once a year is entertaining. Maybe a few chickens went missing when they left – whadaya whadaya.
Aren’t we all armchair warriors on this site?
As for where HA lives, he could easily be American. Most Americans aren’t Putin fanboys. This site is not representative. You need to read around more.
Most people don’t want war but that doesn’t mean they like Putin.
As for where HA lives, he could easily be American. Most Americans aren’t Putin fanboys. This site is not representative. You need to read around more.
Most people don’t want war but that doesn’t mean they like Putin.Replies: @Mark G., @Mr. Anon, @Reg Cæsar
“Aren’t we all armchair warriors on this site?”
Not really. A lot of people want the military used only if we are attacked. Russia never attacked us.
A CNN poll back in August showed a majority of Americans want to end military assistance to the Ukraine. A Harris poll a couple of weeks ago said two thirds of Americans want a negotiated settlement rather than helping the Ukraine to win. Trump, who is seen as supporting a negotiated settlement, is leading Biden in the polls. It is people who are calling for more money and weapons for the Ukraine who are not representative.
The Jews of the Pale DID benefit from its agricultural riches but not mainly thru tax farming. Jews were involved in value added industries - my grandfather had a mill where he would transform low value grain and logs into higher value flour and lumber. Other Jews were involved in leather tanning, shoe, textile and cloth making, etc. Some would buy local geese and cattle and transport them to higher value urban markets. Otherwise, if you grew a goose in a rural area there was no one to buy it for cash - all the other farmers had their own geese and didn't need yours. Others were involved in provided desired goods and services to the local agricultural population. Blacksmithing was a Jewish trade. Others have spoken here of the small town American South and West where the local Jewish shopkeeper was a beloved figure because without him there was no place to buy anything if you needed buttons or thread or a tool or pan or whatever - people would grow their own food but you needed a shop for some things. And yes this included alcohol - sometimes a man builds up a thirst and wants a place to quench it. The notion that Jews were some kind of parasitical population that sucked the blood of the noble peasants is just Nazi bullshit. The Jews could not have lived in E. Europe for 1,000 years as parasites.
Even Gypsies were not parasites. They made their living mainly as "tinkers". This suited their itinerant lifestyle because you only need tinkering (retinning and repairing pots and pans) once in a while. Once a year the gypsy tinkers would roll into town and everyone would come out with their leaky dented pans and such and the gypsies would fix them up as good as new. Then they would roll out of town to the next village. The women would offer to tell your fortune - something else you don't need on a daily basis but once a year is entertaining. Maybe a few chickens went missing when they left - whadaya whadaya.Replies: @Twinkie
Today we talk about “the billionaire class” in the United States. There are about 735 billionaires in a country of 335 million people. That’s about 0.00022% of the population. And we know that this infinitesimally tiny segment of the population is nonetheless extremely wealthy (combined wealth roughly $4.5 trillion) and powerful (control of major institutions).
And you are telling me that there was no Jewish tax farmer class in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth when the Polish nobility and landowners made extensive use of Jews as tax farmers, moneylenders, and holders of various monopolies? Why do you keep making me re-quote?
https://www.unz.com/isteve/who-is-genetically-closer-to-ancient-canaanites-jews-or-pale/#comment-6347587
Even Jewish sources, obviously far more sympathetic and apologist toward the role of the Jews, acknowledged that they impoverished the peasantry through heavy-handed taxation and oppression though, of course, they tried to pass off the blame to the Polish nobles (not unreasonably, of course – the Polish nobles were responsible for bringing in the hated and venal Jews to oppress their own peasants in order to benefit themselves).
This is a nebulous and vague phrasing to obfuscate the situation. What is “territory” here? In the 1700, there was no instant communication (not even the telegraph) or even centralized government in the Commonwealth. There were no cars or trains. Because the Polish nobility was largely absent from the vast new estates they acquired in Lithuania and Ukraine, they needed a large number of agents and middlemen in every town and village throughout the entire region.
Moreover, Jews weren’t just tax farmers. They also operated as moneylenders and holders of all sorts of monopolies (including the distillation and sale of liquor). In other words, they frequently held exclusive rights to sell highly desired commodities as well as the exclusive rights to buy and sell – in other words trade – all sorts of goods. Now, you are not stupid, so you know what happens when a single, small ethnic group holds such monopolies, don’t you? That means they can buy produce made by the peasants extremely cheaply and sell commodities at extortionate prices. And, of course, when you have this core rich and powerful population, they would patronize and benefit their own ethnic kin network for all sorts of other businesses. So a far larger number of Jews benefitted from the tax farming than simply the number of tax farmers.
Let me quote again, “The gradual impoverishment of Ukrainians through exploitative taxation was not denied – this is from Jewish sources, not “Nazi bullshit.” The Nazis simply coopted the historical facts to justify their crimes, but that doesn’t mean those historical facts were false.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-jan-30-me-gypsy30-story.html
Even now the Gypsies are notorious for thievery, frauds, and other crimes. But you are asserting that they were simply honest repairmen in the earlier centuries when no modern law enforcement and even centralized authority existed and the Gypsies were even more itinerant?
Gypsies didn’t just steal chicken. They were widely and commonly known for abducting children. Even in 2011, the European law enforcement authorities identified a “Roma” group as being the largest human trafficking network in Europe: https://www.europol.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/en_investigator_-_copy.pdf
As for where HA lives, he could easily be American. Most Americans aren’t Putin fanboys. This site is not representative. You need to read around more.
Most people don’t want war but that doesn’t mean they like Putin.Replies: @Mark G., @Mr. Anon, @Reg Cæsar
No. I’m not. I don’t think that you are.
The whole notion of “Putin fanboys” is a pejorative invention by deceitful nitwits like “HA”. I neither like nor trust Putin, who is – down to the depths of his rotten soul – a secret policeman. I wouldn’t trust him as far as I could throw him. Almost nobody here is a “Putin fanboy”.
Yeah, tell that to “HA”. People like “HA” (and – let me stress this – he is a most contemptible swine) lazily deride anybody who doesn’t agree with him or share his enthusiasm for a war in Ukraine (a war that – enthusiastic as he might be – he isn’t signing up for – he isn’t putting his life on the line for it) as a “Putin fanboy”.
“HA” is a Zelensky fanboy, a Newland fanboy, a Biden fanboy. F**k him. He is garbage.
Yes, cruelty to animals would be an example. Modern westerners have very different attitudes towards this than their ancestors.
As for where HA lives, he could easily be American. Most Americans aren’t Putin fanboys. This site is not representative. You need to read around more.
Most people don’t want war but that doesn’t mean they like Putin.Replies: @Mark G., @Mr. Anon, @Reg Cæsar
Nah, some of us are armchair Lindberghs!
The Huns & Magyars, despite being better armed and more advanced, only made it as far Châlons, only briefly, and replaced hardly anyone at all. The bow-wave of Germans in front of them were more successful invaders/colonizers, but they weren't really pastoralists like the Huns and Mongols.
The Mongols were the most numerous and best armed pastoralists yet, but their penetration of Europe was the shallowest, only reaching eastern Pannonia.
The Ottomans did famously reach the gates of Vienna, but they weren't pastoralists anymore at that point; they were a civilization comparable to their European adversaries, indeed, their armies were partly composed of European Janissaries.Yeah, that's probably a big part of it.Yes, "unto the early twentieth century".Right. As you say, by that point they were only descended from pastoralists, like the Ottomans in the West.
Even so, though no longer pastoralists, both groups are still visually and culturally distinct from their neighbors today.Replies: @Twinkie
The Hungarians call themselves the Magyars. Hungarian is an exonym – the name others called them (Latin “Ungari” – still preserved in German as “Ungarn” for Hungary). The name is likely related to the Onogur Turks.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12520-019-00996-0
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s12520-019-00996-0.pdf
“Replaced nearly every native male on the way” is an exaggeration. But you need to consider two things. The first thing to consider is that the mix of the hunter-gatherer and agricultural populations these steppe invaders encountered was likely not very large in number. Or at least the ratio of populations between the invaded and the invaders was likely not nearly as lopsided as those encountered by the later pastoralists who invaded settled areas. In other words, during the time of the Yamnaya, the areas inhabited by the agricultural populations was not even remotely as densely-populated as those areas became later. This makes the conquering achievements of groups such as the Huns, the Mongols, and the Turks all the more remarkable, because they took on and conquered polities that were vastly larger than their own.
Second, consider the possibility that the earlier pastoralists were greatly aided by the animal-borne diseases they brought with them, to which the agriculturalists likely had little to no immunity. We have a modern example of this – the conquest of the Americas by the Europeans whose large-scale invasions were preceded by the devastating diseases they brought (once the small group of initial Europeans landed in the Americas, these diseases arrived ahead of the main body of the European armies through transmission among the natives and absolutely wrecked the native population centers, which resulted not only in the deaths of many native leaders and warriors, but also caused a great deal of social disturbance and even civil wars that aided the conquest by the outsiders immensely). A similarly dynamic was likely in place when the early pastoralists invaded the lands of the early agriculturalists who were naive to the animal-borne diseases to which the pastoralists had immunity.
That’s because the Huns were but a small fraction of the confederations they built and led. The Germanic peoples were far larger in number (being only semi-pastoralists in some cases and mostly agriculturalists). Initially they were either subjugated by the Hunnic elite or were fleeing from them in terror, but once the Hunnic leadership became fractured and engaged in a series of civil wars, they were overcome (as the Mongols were later by their larger Turkic confederates and subjects in most of the areas they conquered).
The Mongols were in control of the largest empire ever known to man and ruled over vastly richer realms such as China, Persia, etc. Not only was the terrain of Central and Western Europe inhospitable to their mounted armies (again, the Hungarian plain is the western terminus of the great Eurasian steppes), they had little interest in the relatively poor Western Europeans who were so far from their homeland. Critiquing the Mongols this way is similar to asserting that “Even the Romans were not able to conquer Scotland.” This might be soothing to the modern Scottish national psyche, but to the ancient Romans, Caledonia was a poor, distant land with little to offer that was more hassle than was worth.
Both the Manchus and the Turks are actually more similar genetically to their neighbors than is indicated by “cultural” differences. In the case of the Manchus, due to intermarriage with the Han Chinese, there aren’t many pure Manchus left. In the case of the Turks (of Anatolia), they are genetically mostly the descendants of the native populations (Greeks, Armenians, etc.) of the area intermixed with a thinner superstrate of the Turkish invaders (who, by that time, were already heavily intermixed).
The Ottomans also initially identified with Romans:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire#Name
It didn’t make them so, as they would lack legitimacy. Likewise, Germans couldn’t declare themselves as proper Western Roman emperors, as they were barbarians.
The Western Emperors were figureheads from Fifth century on until the German Magister Militum, “Master of Soliders” Odoacer deposed the last child emperor and sent the regalia to Constantinople.
It's kind of ridiculous that historians pick 476 AD or whenever as the official "end of the Roman Empire." The Eastern half of the Empire kept going just fine for centuries after that. Heck, Justinian was a Latin-speaking Roman Emperor who controlled as much territory as the Empire had in its heyday (including Italy and Rome itself). Logically, you have to say Justinian's reign was the Roman Empire thoroughly un-fallen.
If you're talking about the "Roman" Empire you could make control over the City determinative. But the Western Emperors had long since moved to Ravenna or Milan anyway, so that doesn't make sense either.
But whatever. History is basically a process of over-simplification, so they have to pick arbitrary distinctions to make sense of anything.
By the time the Vandals and the Goths invaded the empire, they were already Christian, if you consider Arianism a Christian heresy.
They later accepted the Divinity of Jesus . Moreover , they had lived side by side with Romans for centuries. So, it's different.Replies: @China Japan and Korea Bromance of Three Kingdoms
No. Goths came from as fringe of the Roman world as Arabs had.


And have a Asian genetic component (why shouldn’t they, they came from where Eurasian nomads have always been)
https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/07/asiatic-east-germanics.html
“Lived side by side” is one way of putting it. The German identity is based on resistance against Roman conquest, halting it at Teutoburg Forest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_warfare_between_the_Romans_and_Germanic_peoples
That is not to say the Arabs were not a greater nemesis of Rome.
The railroad engineers were trained in Dongbei System of Economy methods, which is a form of industrial capitalism now consigned to the the memory hole (not taught in skools).
Also, the post WW2 Japanese takeoff was engineered by Dongbei Railroad Engineers, who were hiding out at MITI.
The railroad engineers were trained in Dongbei System of Economy methods, which is a form of industrial capitalism now consigned to the the memory hole (not taught in skools).
Very interesting. I also saw somewhere recently that the Greeks were calling themselves “Romans” during and after their war of independence (c. 1819).
It’s kind of ridiculous that historians pick 476 AD or whenever as the official “end of the Roman Empire.” The Eastern half of the Empire kept going just fine for centuries after that. Heck, Justinian was a Latin-speaking Roman Emperor who controlled as much territory as the Empire had in its heyday (including Italy and Rome itself). Logically, you have to say Justinian’s reign was the Roman Empire thoroughly un-fallen.
If you’re talking about the “Roman” Empire you could make control over the City determinative. But the Western Emperors had long since moved to Ravenna or Milan anyway, so that doesn’t make sense either.
But whatever. History is basically a process of over-simplification, so they have to pick arbitrary distinctions to make sense of anything.