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Why Mexican-Americans Have Gotten Relatively Shorter and Less Athletic
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From BioRxiv:

Hispanics/Latinos are a diverse group of admixed populations with African, European, and Native American ancestries. They remain understudied, and thus little is known about the genetic architecture of phenotypic variation in these populations. Using genome-wide genotype data from the Hispanic Community Health Study/Study of Latinos, we find that Native American ancestry has increased over time across Hispanic/Latino populations, particularly in Mexican Americans where Native American ancestry increased by an average of ∼20% over the 50-year period spanning 1940s-1990s. We find similar patterns across American cities, and replicate our observations in an independent sample of Mexican Americans. These dynamic ancestry patterns are a result of a complex interaction of several population and cultural factors, including strong ancestry-related assortative mating and subtle shifts in migration with differences in subcontinental Native American ancestry over time. These factors have shaped patterns of genetic variation, including an increase in runs of homozygosity in Native American ancestral tracts, and also influenced the genetic architecture of complex traits within the Mexican American population. We show for height, a trait correlated with ancestry, polygenic risk scores based on summary statistics from a European-based genome-wide association study perform poorly in Mexican Americans. Our findings reveal temporal changes in population structure within Hispanics/Latinos that may influence biomedical traits, demonstrating a crucial need to improve our understanding of the genetic diversity of admixed populations.

T hey find that Mexican Americans born in the 1930s averaged 43% Native Americans vs. 54% Native American for Mexican Americans born in the 1990s, based on the smoothed graph above, although perhaps the peak Amerindian ancestral percentage was those born in the 1980s.

This helps explain the curious fact that Mexican-Americans used to be included more in the ranks of top athletes back when they were less numerous. For example, consider Southern California-born Pancho Gonzales, the world’s top pro tennis player of the 1950s, and Anthony Munoz (right), often ranked the best offensive lineman in NFL history. San Diego’s Ted Williams, probably the best baseball hitter of all time, was half-Mexican. (Tony Gonzalez of Southern California might be the best NFL tight end of all time but I don’t think he’s Mexican — but in any case I still want to see a reality TV show where he hangs out at Jeff Bezos’s house to toss the football around with his son, Bezos’s new stepson).

I don’t know the specifics of the study of Hispanics (sample size a little over 10k) used in this study, but the U.S. government doesn’t let you pick more than one ethnicity the way you can pick more than one race on the Census. You either pick Hispanic or Non-Hispanic, not both. Presumably, this means that individuals of some but not high degree of Mexican descent don’t identify as Mexican-American. For example, Ted Williams didn’t. These days there are rewards for identifying as Latino, but I’m sure some people who are 1/4th or 1/8th don’t bother. This would cause highly European people to tend to drop out of the Hispanic pool.

Another thing is that Mexican-Americans used to be Anthony Quinn-types from Northern Mexico, which was a desert largely unpopulated until irrigation techniques developed in the later 19th Century, so it was populated by more European individuals. In contrast, recent immigrants from Mexico have tended to be from ancient southern Mexican corn-growing villages disrupted by NAFTA.

And new Mexican immigrant women tend to have high fertility in, roughly, there first decade in the U.S., only noticing after they’ve had a passel of kids here that raising children in the U.S. is very expensive.

It’s also likely that there is a height gradient among Native Americans. The tallest, such as the Blackfeet, appear to be up around the Canadian border with the shortest in North America down in Central America.

 
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  1. Mixtecs.

    Of both the hot and cold running variety.

  2. This is consistent with my impression that Mexicans used to be considered white, more-or-less, by Americans. People in most of America never saw a Mexican in real life, only those on TV and in the movies who appeared to be Spaniards. The peasant indigenous people were unknown here.

    • Replies: @Realist

    People in most of America never saw a Mexican in real life, only those on TV and in the movies who appeared to be Spaniards. The peasant indigenous people were unknown here.
     
    Those were the days. Bring back the Cisco Kid...especially Pancho.
    , @Anonymous
    The 'Anthony Quinn' syndrome.
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    The Texas Rangers - aka "Rinches" - sure as hell didn't consider Mexicans to be white.
    , @CrunchyButRealistCon
    This generally is in line with the migration of the short-statured, high fertility Indigenous from more equatorial regions of South America into Argentina & Chile. The Amerindians of Bolivia, Peru, Paraguay & Columbia have been trickling into the once relatively more European countries of Argentina, Panama, & Chile since 1920 or so.

    It would be interesting to know whether these migrations were correlated with convulsions of Leftism (eg the election of Salvador Allende in Chile) in the receiving countries.

    In the case of Mexico, it could also be migration northwards from Guatemala, El Salvador into MEX, or just internal migration from the Chiapas region to Mexico City & Monterrey.
    , @Travis
    true. I never met a Mexican in real life until I went to Mexico in 1993 when I was 23 years-old.
    I grew up in Philadelphia and attended college in New Jersey. In college I did meet some Latinos, and dated a girl who lived in the Latino Dorm at Rutgers. She was born in America , but her parents were from Peru. She hated living in the dorm because it was mostly Puerto Ricans and she complained that she had nothing in common with them. I did know a a student who was half Mexican , but I thought he was white until he told me his mother was Mexican.

    My mother still lives in Pennsylvania, and to this day she may never have met a Mexican in real life. She still has a white guy mowing her lawn and raking her leaves.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    In Don Seigel's 1948 film "The Big Steal", starring Robert Mitchum and William Bendix, the film actually has extensive (for that time) on location filming in Mexico. Various scenes, such as Mitchum pulling into a gas station run by Mestizos. That place, the countryside, and the Mexican construction crew are all clearly mestizos. Most of the places that Siegel chose to film all had a look of genuine poverty, nothing very glamorous or high end out in the countryside. One would suppose that that part of Mexico has improved since 1948.
  3. Excuse me Mr Sailer, where does Lee Trevino at 5 foot 7 fit in here?

    • Replies: @iffen
    where does Lee Trevino at 5 foot 7 fit in here?

    No where. He is writing about athletes. Golfers are not athletes.

    Golf is not an athletic sport.

    It is merely an anti-Semitic cudgel wielded by WASPS.

    , @Lot
    The Spanish cousins of white Mexicans aren’t tall either. Currently the average in Spain is 5-8 or 5-9. In Lee’s day 5-7 might have been average there.

    And most Spanish migration was from the South, which is a little shorter still.
    , @J.Ross
    >asking question about a man's height
    >5'7"
    >Patrick McGoohan's character's name not detected
    And into the very short wastebasket it goes.
  4. Tony Gonzalez is clearly mostly black/white.

  5. There have been some good native americans athletes in sports like track and field. and also boxing and wrestling where there are weight classes. I think what they lack compared to whites physically is just size. they are small people and bigness can’t be taught.

  6. As a Hispanic of mixed European descent (primarily French and Spanish), I can attest to the assortive mating. Also, the term “Hispanic” (moreso than Latino, in my view) has become so broad and overreaching that it is on par with whites that call themselves “Irish-American” who only have about 1/8th true Irish heritage. On the other hand, Latino continues to mean “darker version” within our community-even though people claim we use them interchangeably, we don’t.

  7. “The tallest, such as the Blackfeet, appear to be up around the Canadian border with the shortest in North America down in Central America.”

    There’s that Canadian border effect, again!

    • Replies: @Lot
    The biggest US Indian Tribe are the Navajo, who are fairly recent migrants from the north to the desert SW.

    They look like a hybrid of NE Asians or Eskimos with regular “redskin” American Indians.

    http://assets.azpreps365.com/teams/photos/original/000/095/193/2017%20TCHS%20Varsity-State%20Volleyball.jpg

    https://westernnews.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2018/07/03/2009_Family_Travels_316_t715.jpg?529764a1de2bdd0f74a9fb4f856b01a9d617b3e9

    On another topic, NY Times prints a liberal immigration restriction article, and the comments are very positive, even the “NY Picks.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/16/opinion/immigration-democrats.html
  8. How exactly do you quantify that they have gotten less athletic?

    I think a lot of the athletic Mexican-Americans have gone into MMA.

    Look at Tito Ortiz, Nate Diaz, Cain Velasquez, Carlos Condit, and dozens more. They have been dominant at what is arguably the premier test of athleticism.

    Just giving them their due.

    • Agree: PaceLaw
  9. I’ve read accounts by early US explorers that Indians on the coasts were tall, but ones in the interior were stunted. A diet of ocean fish with iodine appears to be the difference.

    • Replies: @Anon

    I’ve read accounts by early US explorers that Indians on the coasts were tall, but ones in the interior were stunted. A diet of ocean fish with iodine appears to be the difference.
     
    Or the explorers were short. But yeah, Charles Mann wrote about that in his books. Besides being taller, Indians were healthier, their clothing was more suited to the environment, their weapons had greater range, more accuracy, and faster repeatability, their seagoing craft in coastal waters worked better than the Europeans, and in general they were much better off than the Europeans. We forget how far Europeans had to go before they became us.

    Disease was the great equalizer.

    OT

    The guy Steve is arguing with on Twitter:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmZX9dKMzqI

    Wow, would this guy annoy me if I were a college student.

    , @JohnPlywood
    It's the other way around. The Plains Indians were the tallest group, coastal Indians were shorter.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/05/010529071125.htm

    Plains Indians may have carried the same genes for height that introgressed in to Europeans via the Ancient North Eurasians.

  10. So, they’re literally becoming more and more Squatemalan with the passage of time.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    That would be the long and short of it.

    We're getting the shortest, brownest, and for the most part dumbest and least adaptable Mexicans. The mostlywhite elite says ¡Gracias!....well, actually, they don't, they rightly hold the gringos in contempt.
  11. @Ano
    Excuse me Mr Sailer, where does Lee Trevino at 5 foot 7 fit in here?

    where does Lee Trevino at 5 foot 7 fit in here?

    No where. He is writing about athletes. Golfers are not athletes.

    Golf is not an athletic sport.

    It is merely an anti-Semitic cudgel wielded by WASPS.

    • LOL: Laurence Whelk
    • Replies: @Jim Christian

    Golf is not an athletic sport.
     
    Nonsense.
  12. @william munny
    This is consistent with my impression that Mexicans used to be considered white, more-or-less, by Americans. People in most of America never saw a Mexican in real life, only those on TV and in the movies who appeared to be Spaniards. The peasant indigenous people were unknown here.

    People in most of America never saw a Mexican in real life, only those on TV and in the movies who appeared to be Spaniards. The peasant indigenous people were unknown here.

    Those were the days. Bring back the Cisco Kid…especially Pancho.

    • Replies: @Neuday
    Speedy Gonzalez was very short.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Was Cisco Kid a friend of yours?
    , @Manfred Arcane
    The TV Cisco Kid, Duncan Renaldo, wasn't even Spanish--he was a Romanian whose indeterminately Latin accent (the Romanians and their language are Latin-based, not Slavic ) allowed him to make a career out of playing Spaniards, Mexicans, South Americans, and occasional Frenchmen.

    Pancho, on the other hand, was played by Leo Carillo, a California Spanish-American who was descended from a Hidalgo family that actually held on to their land (Carillo donated some of it to California; there's a state beach named after him). Supposedly he acted more for the fun of it than to make money, of which he had a lot; he liked to affect an over-the-top Mexican accent as Pancho and similar characters, but could drop it when he wanted--as in one of his only serious roles, in John Ford's The Fugitive.
  13. Diet gotta play an effect, just how it makes Brits ugly. I mean they’re grain brained to the max. Switch ’em to a more high-protein diet and their height and athletic performance will improve too

    • Replies: @Carol
    Short seems adaptive for ag though. Indian corn farmers and Chinese rice growers. Closer to the ground and probably not so affected by heat and humidity.

    Plus the diet.. I think it was Reich who said the Asians were taller pre-agriculture.
    , @Autochthon

    Diet gotta play an effect, just how it makes Brits ugly.
     
    https://trishisabelle.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/audrey-hepburn9107.jpg

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7EJQWNvYrio/T04f-sXCIcI/AAAAAAAAmzk/BQvb3I-HiYY/s1600/Elizabeth_Taylor.jpg

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2jWa510TL80/UJzH6CTui4I/AAAAAAAAbes/S9yLOmSyAd0/s1600/Anna+Popplewell+22.jpg

    https://celebmafia.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/iskra-lawrence-in-bikini-on-the-beach-in-miami-12-11-2017-10.jpg

    But, then, I notice your writing also suggests you my think complete sentences are "faggy."
    , @S. Anonyia
    Brits are shorter and paler than Americans but aren’t ugly. They are a little less fat than Americans, too.

    Half of Hollywood actors nowadays are British.
  14. More affirmative action! If the incentives are good enough, enough tall Americans of European stock who currently identify as African American might switch to Mexican American.

  15. Every account by Spanish explorers remarks how tall and well put together the Indians were.

    • Replies: @Neuday
    I've read several memoirs of 19th century frontiersmen and soldiers and they consistently report on the generally small, almost feminine physique of the male American Indians.
    , @Autochthon
    Yes and no. It's more useful to speak of the actual heights than to speak of whether anyone was "tall" or "short." (I myself am quite unimpressive by Dutch standards, but in Viet Nam or Honduras I am a regular Paul Bunyan – so, am I tall or short?)

    In the seventeenth century, the average height of males* (globally) was something in the range of 5'6" to 5'8" – the tallest Aztec (to pick but one example) was about 5'6" according to primary sources like Cortes' accounts.

    The conquistadors' accounts quite routinely indicate the indios were short, stocky sorts relative to Europeans. Perhaps the northern Amerindians encountered by the French and the English in what would become Canada and most of the U.S.A. were taller (it's common knowledge the average height human populations more often than not increases with latitude, all else being equal, until, at extremes near the poles it decreases again since short, chunky people better conserve heat...).

    The dramatic differences today between Europeans and indios and mestizos is that we Europeans just kept on inventing and discovering things to become more healthy and prosperous, whereas the latter groups progressing from cannibalism to hanging around at the Home Depot, sleeping in bath-tubs, and drunken driving...which, I suppose, is some kind of progress, but it hasn't done much for their height.

    *Check out the ruins and artifacts in places like Knossos some time: the thrones of the mighty kings look like furniture for a small children's classroom. Humans have absolutely exploded in size in just a few millennia, mostly due to improved health (including from diet) and selective breeding.
  16. A friend from California was visiting Austin (don’t they all) and remarked that the Hispanic women here are more attractive than those in California. Considering that most of the established Mexican Americans in the Austin area are Mestizos from northern Mexico, while most of those in SoCal are indigenous folks from poor southern Mexican states, it makes sense.

    Seems that the European Mexicans are dumping their Indigenous Mexican populations on us, and have been doing so for some time. Whey would they want to lose these “best and brightest” from among their ranks? After all, diversity is their strength, or is that just in the West?

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    Not all native-Mexicans look the same. Indians from Coahiula, Chihuahua and the north have nicer features IMO than the Indios in the south. Mixed in with a higher percentage of European genes they are much more noble looking than their darker shorter cousins.
  17. There is a really good Netflix series out about Aaron Hernandez, who was about 6’2 and 245lbs. His father was second-generation Puerto Rican and his mother was Italian.

  18. As this study seems to be confined to “Mexican Americans” ( no details on immigration status) and not Mexicans we should consider the enormous self selecting bias in the sample. Obviously those entering the US to do stoop labor on farms or menial jobs in the service sector are not going to be the better educated more successful people of Mexico. They have a decent life already and have no need to migrate to the US.

    There is also a time element. “Mexican Americans’ can be New Mexico ranchers who have been in the US for hundreds of years or the more recent migrant who became surplus to the Mexican economy. The longer your time in the US the greater the chances you acquire non Indian blood and eat a higher protein diet.

  19. Latinos aren’t the only Americans getting shorter…

  20. “Northern Mexico, which was a desert largely unpopulated until irrigation techniques developed in the later 19th Century, so it was populated by more European individuals. In contrast, recent immigrants from Mexico have tended to be from ancient southern Mexican corn-growing villages disrupted by NAFTA.”

    I skimmed through the post, but my impression (gleaned mostly from reading other ISteve posts) is pretty much this. Since NAFTA destroyed the agricultural industry in southern Mexican states and Central America, Mexican immigrants tend to come from there, including “Mexicans” who are actually from the Central American countries to the south of Mexico. They are usually Mayans, many of whom don’t speak Spanish. Mexicans with predominantly European ancestry tend to not have much reason to leave Mexico.

  21. My grandparents and mother fit into the low-40% Amerind category. But it’s just inconceivable to me that a 10% difference in Amerind ancestry would have “marked” them as non-white rather than just ethnically ambiguous.

    These are averages, remember. The Mayan-looking Hispanics hanging out in front of Home Depot surely have more than mid-50% Amerind ancestry.

    Nevertheless, the averages do tell us that you don’t need radical differences in Amerind ancestry to see radical differences in phenotype. Hispanics subvert the left’s unspoken assumption that a one-to-one correspondence exists between “oppressed” phenotype and “oppressed” ancestry. Which is why I remain optimistic about Hispanics exploding the left’s attempt to transition from a “not black” racial categorization for its spoils system to a “not white” system, which is not good for blacks or whites.

  22. @Ano
    Excuse me Mr Sailer, where does Lee Trevino at 5 foot 7 fit in here?

    The Spanish cousins of white Mexicans aren’t tall either. Currently the average in Spain is 5-8 or 5-9. In Lee’s day 5-7 might have been average there.

    And most Spanish migration was from the South, which is a little shorter still.

    • Replies: @JohnPlywood
    Can people on this website ever stop making shit up? The southern regions of Spain are the tallest and where the North Euro admixture (due to Germanic and Indo-Iranian settlement after the fall of the empire) peaks.

    http://documentos.fedea.net/pubs/dt/2010/dt-2010-01.pdf

    , @S. Anonyia
    That’s only an inch shorter than white Americans. White American men average just under 5’10, women around 5’4.

    Americans are not Dutch, Serbian, Swiss levels of tall. We are closer to the Irish and French, and only a bit taller than the Brits.

    Maybe we were known as being tall 100 years ago, but the rest of the world caught up.

    Also fatness is probably starting to slowly depress height.

    I am just under 5’6 and female. I walk around any poor or lower middle class area I feel pretty tall and thin compared to the other women. That’s including the whites. Then I go eat at a fancy restaurant and I feel pretty short.

  23. @william munny
    This is consistent with my impression that Mexicans used to be considered white, more-or-less, by Americans. People in most of America never saw a Mexican in real life, only those on TV and in the movies who appeared to be Spaniards. The peasant indigenous people were unknown here.

    The ‘Anthony Quinn’ syndrome.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    The Anthony Quinndrome.
  24. The other big concentration of white Mexicans is around Mexico City.

    If you’d like to see some typical phenotypes of working upper class Mexico City people, look here:

    https://www.jonesday.com/en/site-search#q=Mexico%20City&t=coveofcda7246&sort=relevancy&f:@facetz95xlocation=%5BMexico%20City%5D&f:@facetz95xlanguage=%5BEnglish%5D

    Out of 36, I see 1 pale blond guy, another dark-blond guy, 1 blue-eyed Ashkenazi Jew, 3 or 4 who look about 20-30 Indian, and the rest look like people off the street in Madrid, including Steve’s bald brother.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    Mexican whites came up with a great idea at the end of the Mexican Revolution - just declare that henceforth everyone in Mexico is a member of the same Mestizo race.

    Only one race = no racism. Problem solved.

    Now they can dominate all the elites institutions without the Mexican version of the New York Times nagging them about their "white privilege."

    And for bonus points, they can go to the U.S. and become affirmative action recipients who get to cut in line ahead of their co-ethnics who are assigned to the disfavored "White American Citizen" tribe. (Those Suckers!).

    , @Father O'Hara
    He looks like a Bond villain.
  25. @Lot
    The Spanish cousins of white Mexicans aren’t tall either. Currently the average in Spain is 5-8 or 5-9. In Lee’s day 5-7 might have been average there.

    And most Spanish migration was from the South, which is a little shorter still.

    Can people on this website ever stop making shit up? The southern regions of Spain are the tallest and where the North Euro admixture (due to Germanic and Indo-Iranian settlement after the fall of the empire) peaks.

    http://documentos.fedea.net/pubs/dt/2010/dt-2010-01.pdf

    • Replies: @Lot
    Your link shows the tallest women are in Asturias in the far north and the tallest men in Madrid in the middle of the north.

    Using only the most recent cohort, the tallest men of the big regions is Castilla y Leon in the north and shortest is Andalucia, 4cm shorter.

    Further, there’s no reason to think Germanic settlement patterns after the fall of the Western Empire affected Spanish height, because there were just too few of them. I recall one estimate that the visigoths were only 6% of the Spanish population at the time of the Moorish invasion.

    Rather Spain, just like most every country in the temperate zone with a wide north-south range, has a height gradient, and it is ancient in origin.
  26. The tallest, such as the Blackfeet, appear to be up around the Canadian border

    If two members of the Blackfoot tribe are standing together I am pretty sure that, gramatically speaking, they aren’t two “Blackfeet.” (Although perhaps they have four black feet between them.)

    I just wanted to point this out before steve gets any angry (but taciturn) letters from the tribe.

    • Replies: @Charlotte
    There is an actual Blackfeet Tribe https://blackfeetnation.com/. It is not the same as the Blackfoot.
    , @Hail

    If two members of the Blackfoot tribe are standing together I am pretty sure that, gramatically speaking, they aren’t two “Blackfeet.”
     
    Two traditional religious practitioners of that tribe,

    Blackfeet shamen?
    , @Carol
    It's Blackfeet. Singular is not Blackfoot.

    Maybe you have them confused with the river.
    , @RadicalCenter
    I believe that Bilbo Baggins was corrected, at his eleventy-first birthday party, for calling relatives “Proudfoots.” A cry came from the assemblage, “ProudFEET.”
  27. It’s also likely that there is a height gradient among Native Americans. The tallest, such as the Blackfeet, appear to be up around the Canadian border with the shortest in North America down in Central America.

    That’s somewhat surprising, since Allen’s rule is that colder temperatures should result in an animal having a lower surface area to volume ratio, typically meaning shorter limbs and a stockier frame. On the other hand, the “pygmy” phenotype seems to be associated with jungles and the peasants of agricultural civilizations seem to be shorter than the typical non-pygmy hunter-gatherer.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
    Allen´s rule means bigger, not shorter. Seen any spherical whales lately? :D
    , @Alden
    Protein in the diet has a lot do do with it, even if it’s high protein oats and wheat opposed to very low protein rice and corn.
    , @Pickle Rick
    Because native nations don’t always live today where they originated from geographically. They’ve migrated over the continent thousands of miles, just like the Indo-European nations (the Franks, Saxons, Goths, etc.). The horse culture of the plains that gave the Blackfeet the mobility and present territory they now have is less than 300 years old.
    They didn’t always live near the present Canadian border any more than the Delaware nation always lived in modern Oklahoma.
  28. You just brought the tennis player, Rosie Casals to mind. She was of Salvadoran descent and only 5’2, but she was a powerhouse. Her great uncle was the Cellist, Pablo Casals. Rosie looked to be mostly Native-American.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    I was rather a fan of Rosie's unusual looks in my youth, but then I found out she "served from the tramlines", like so many sportswomen.
  29. DOGS AND CATS LIVING TOGETHER

    Yellow Vests (remember them? They never went away, the establishment media just tried pretending they and the internet do not exist) successfully force Macron out of a building

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1230111/Emmanuel-Macron-French-France-President-pension-protest-chaos-latest-news

    Navy to jam GPS at sites on the east coast around the time for the big igloo, won’t say why (kek)

    https://wearechangetv.us/2020/01/breaking-military-to-jam-gps-signals-across-east-coast-through-jan-24th/

    RUMOR and POLICE SCANNER: a guy near Virginia allegedly stole several hundred pounds of explosive from a construction site, at home barricaded himself against police, shot at them and was eventually killed by them. Scant detail in local news, nothing in national news. Later local news story: man shot during a “police welfare check.” An ERPO is a sort of special “welfare check,” as is a police raid prompted by fears of violent plans, or insanity, or stockpiling hundreds of pounds of explosives.

    Some of you are alright, don’t go to bleary-eyed coffee-gulping wakefulness Monday.

  30. The best Mexican-American athlete I’ve seen recently was Isaiah Martinez, a California (Central valley) native who wrestled for the University of Illinois.

    He wrestled some tremendously exciting matches against Penn State’s Italian-American, Vincenzo Joseph. Joseph was the stockier one in their matches.

  31. Mestizos are really an interesting group because they are very large group and have about a 500 year old history, but are not a race.

    I wonder if you sequenced enough of them, whether you could find some signal for outbreeding depression. What I’m thinking of specifically is that a certain few genes might be less heterozygous than you’d expect because the Spanish and Amerind copies don’t play nicely together.

  32. @TGGP

    It’s also likely that there is a height gradient among Native Americans. The tallest, such as the Blackfeet, appear to be up around the Canadian border with the shortest in North America down in Central America.
     
    That's somewhat surprising, since Allen's rule is that colder temperatures should result in an animal having a lower surface area to volume ratio, typically meaning shorter limbs and a stockier frame. On the other hand, the "pygmy" phenotype seems to be associated with jungles and the peasants of agricultural civilizations seem to be shorter than the typical non-pygmy hunter-gatherer.

    Allen´s rule means bigger, not shorter. Seen any spherical whales lately? 😀

  33. @william munny
    This is consistent with my impression that Mexicans used to be considered white, more-or-less, by Americans. People in most of America never saw a Mexican in real life, only those on TV and in the movies who appeared to be Spaniards. The peasant indigenous people were unknown here.

    The Texas Rangers – aka “Rinches” – sure as hell didn’t consider Mexicans to be white.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    There was a race war on the Texas-Mexico border.....

    Plan of San Diego

    The plan called for the killing of all adult white American men in the Southwestern states[1] and the "return of land to Mexicans." It was, however, exposed before it could be fully executed. Although there was no uprising, there were raids into Texas that began in July 1915. The raids were countered by Texas Rangers, the U.S. Army and local self-defense groups. In total, 30 raids into Texas destroyed large amounts of property and killed 21 Americans.[2] It is not known who was responsible for drafting the Plan of San Diego, but there are theories that Mexican revolutionary leaders helped to sponsor it.
     

    Declaring the creation of a Liberating Army of Races and Peoples, the Plan of San Diego called for the recruitment of Mexican nationals, African Americans, Native Americans and Mexican Americans to rebel against the United States.[2] The central goal of the plan was to "free Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, and Colorado from U.S. control" (see Reconquista).[4] These states would become an independent republic that in the future could be reunited with Mexico. To the north, rebels hoped to conquer other states to produce a buffer zone between the United States and Mexico.
     

    On February 20, 1915, the plan was called for starting the execution of "North American" men over the age of 16; only the elderly as well as women and children were to be spared.[3]
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_of_San_Diego


    Mexican Border War (1910–1919)


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Border_War_(1910%E2%80%931919)


    Bandit War

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandit_War
  34. @Lot
    The other big concentration of white Mexicans is around Mexico City.

    If you’d like to see some typical phenotypes of working upper class Mexico City people, look here:

    https://www.jonesday.com/en/site-search#q=Mexico%20City&t=coveofcda7246&sort=relevancy&f:@facetz95xlocation=%5BMexico%20City%5D&f:@facetz95xlanguage=%5BEnglish%5D

    Out of 36, I see 1 pale blond guy, another dark-blond guy, 1 blue-eyed Ashkenazi Jew, 3 or 4 who look about 20-30 Indian, and the rest look like people off the street in Madrid, including Steve’s bald brother.

    https://www.jonesday.com/-/media/images/attorneys/c/jcortes.jpg

    Mexican whites came up with a great idea at the end of the Mexican Revolution – just declare that henceforth everyone in Mexico is a member of the same Mestizo race.

    Only one race = no racism. Problem solved.

    Now they can dominate all the elites institutions without the Mexican version of the New York Times nagging them about their “white privilege.”

    And for bonus points, they can go to the U.S. and become affirmative action recipients who get to cut in line ahead of their co-ethnics who are assigned to the disfavored “White American Citizen” tribe. (Those Suckers!).

    • Replies: @Haole
    True

    Veridad
    , @Travis
    exactly.

    The concept of La Raza can be traced to the ideas and writings of Jose Vasconcelos, the Mexican theorist who developed the theory of la Raza cosmica (the cosmic or super race). Vasconelos developed a systematic theory which argued that climatic and geographic conditions and mixture of Spanish and Indian races created a superior race.

    In other words, La Raza is the Master Race, but rather than based on notions of racial purity, La Raza’s inherent, biological superiority is based on its hybridity, on the mixing in Latin America of , “the black, the Indian, the Mongol, and the white.” La Raza tries to whitewash this by writing that “this is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.” Not really; what it really means is that Hispanics, and specifically Mestizos, are superior to those of us unfortunate enough not to be part La Raza.
    , @Mr. Grey
    Si, verdad. This reminds me of some DNA show I saw years ago, celebrities taking DNA tests, and there were a few white Mexicans, like Christina Aguilera (forgot who else) who were shocked that their ancestry was mostly European. They seemed to expect to be descendants of Aztec Royalty.
    , @Anonymous
    By official decree all Mexicans are Mestizos.

    A Mestizo is, of course, different than a mestizo.

    Technically anyone who is between one and ninety-nine percent mesoamerican and white mixed is a mestizo, but Mexico is mostly ruled by people who are all or mostly all white, who constitute roughly ten percent of the population, and about twenty or more percent of Mexicans are for all practical purposes pure indios. So about sixty to seventy percent of Mexicans are functionally mestizos of various admixture, although some are pardos, triracial, with African admixture.

    Generally one's status in Mexico depends on one's race, although Mexicans consider that as class and not race. Whites are at the top, indios generally at the bottom, and mestizos tend to be at about where they fall in the racial spectrum. Whites are almost always at the top, but occasionally indios or high indio mestizos do very well and are accorded status. Mexicans look down at non-Mexican mesos and mestizo/pardo types. They positively detest Puerto Ricans and Cubans, for the most part.
  35. OT: preview of a report on complaints against the police in Rotherham. The report is not yet published.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/police-chief-we-ignored-sex-abuse-of-children-hgrhc358v

    A senior police officer admitted that his force ignored the sexual abuse of girls by Pakistani grooming gangs for decades because it was afraid of increasing “racial tensions”, a watchdog has ruled.

    After a five-year investigation, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) upheld a complaint that the Rotherham officer told a missing child’s distraught father that the town “would erupt” if it was known that Asian men were routinely having sex with under-age white girls.

    Yet the town eventually found out and did not erupt. The British authorities have a breathtaking contempt for ordinary people, and believe that we are perpetually on the brink of starting pogroms. This is not a belief based on any evidence; perhaps it was instilled by “diversity training”.

    The Times’ story is repeated here:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7901731/Police-chief-admitted-force-ignored-sex-abuse-grooming-gangs-30-years.html

    • Replies: @Liza

    Yet the town eventually found out and did not erupt.
     
    How I wish they had. They should have made the Negro riots in USA look like a little tea party.
  36. Sometimes you win the genetic lottery…

    Lynda Carter with her sister and her Mestiza mother:


    Clearly, Lynda is expressing more of the European side of her ancestry….

    • Replies: @Lot
    The sister looks kinda like Arianna Huffington when she was young. Only looks “unlucky” next to Lynda herself.
    , @danand

    "Sometimes you win the genetic lottery…"
     
    Syonredux, yes, Linda sure is a natural wonder. Other famous offspring of a "Mestiza", albeit one of a bit smaller stature:

    https://flic.kr/p/2igKo64
    , @Father O'Hara
    Good God,I'd take the sister in a heartbeat.
    , @Hypnotoad666

    Sometimes you win the genetic lottery…
     
    The combination of raven hair and bronze skin tones with light blue or green eyes seems to be an especially "lucky" combination that all groups seem to find exotically attractive.

    Of course, in Linda Carter's case it also didn't hurt to be tall, athletic and perfectly curvy at the same time. Wonder woman, indeed.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    YES! About time a smutty picture was posted of Ms. Carter, the original Wonder of the small screen.

    Here a natural beauty was found.
    There on the small screen did aphrodite bless the viewers with her bounteous pulchritude.

    Amazing. Simply and absolutely amazing.
    , @Jon Halpenny
    Lynda Carter looked more Anglo than most Anglos
    , @Onebelowall
    Ah yes. I used to watch the 70's Wonder Woman as a kid. I've been rewtching it on Me-TV and am noticing a lot of things I never picked up on when I was little. One thing being that it's insane how attractive Lynda Carter was.
  37. Why aren’t Bolivians and Peruvians up there with the Kenyans in long distance running?

    Has that been bred out of them with 400 years of Spanish-enforced selection for gold and tin mining slaves?

    Or would they be up there if they were allowed to chew coca leaves?

    • Replies: @anon
    Why aren’t Bolivians and Peruvians up there with the Kenyans in long distance running?

    Has that been bred out of them with 400 years of Spanish-enforced selection for gold and tin mining slaves?

    Perhaps when they were slaves of the Inca most were potato-plot diggers, few were messenger-runners.

    The Tarahumara might be able to give Kenyans some competition, if the Mexican government ever could be bothered to go find out.

    , @jimla
    Peruvians do excel given at a Latinamerican level, from the expected towns, that is high altitude towns, but they are very short. Spanish chronicles tell of how the Inca would select their messengers, remember there were not horses, from certain ayllus, ie related communities, as tribute from that ayllu.
    , @anonymous jew
    Well, an Indio did just win the Tour de France and a few years earlier another Indio came in second. So there's that. Running is a little bit different because it gives a larger advantage to Black Africans that never left the ancestral human homeland and were thus never compromised by the Ice Age with shorter, stouter limbs that carry more fat and negatively effect running efficiency. Humans evolved to run, but non-Black humans had to balance running ability with keeping warm in ice age. Returning back to hot climates, even for thousands of years, doesn't automatically reverse that because evolution is clumsy and works with what it has. That's why Amerindians from hot jungles are still stuck with cold-weather mitochondrial DNA types and why SE Asians don't have the long, lean limbs of Africans.

    If only plains Indians could only put down the bottle (or Slurpee) and/or existed in larger numbers I believe we'd see more Jim Thorpes. BTW, Thorpe's distance running times when considered in the context of their time, and Thorpe's large size and success in football, are pretty amazing. I doubt any modern NFL player would come close.

  38. @Hypnotoad666

    The tallest, such as the Blackfeet, appear to be up around the Canadian border
     
    If two members of the Blackfoot tribe are standing together I am pretty sure that, gramatically speaking, they aren't two "Blackfeet." (Although perhaps they have four black feet between them.)

    I just wanted to point this out before steve gets any angry (but taciturn) letters from the tribe.

    There is an actual Blackfeet Tribe https://blackfeetnation.com/. It is not the same as the Blackfoot.

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    Singular and plural. As in, I am Blackfeet, we are Blackfeet. Similar, but not equivalent to, I am American, we are American.
  39. @Nimrod
    "The tallest, such as the Blackfeet, appear to be up around the Canadian border with the shortest in North America down in Central America."

    There's that Canadian border effect, again!

    The biggest US Indian Tribe are the Navajo, who are fairly recent migrants from the north to the desert SW.

    They look like a hybrid of NE Asians or Eskimos with regular “redskin” American Indians.

    On another topic, NY Times prints a liberal immigration restriction article, and the comments are very positive, even the “NY Picks.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/16/opinion/immigration-democrats.html

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    Does Tuba City ever take on Yuba City?

    How come they get to keep the name Warriors? Scott Adams's Hartwick was pressured to abandon it 25 years ago:


    'Dilbert,' changes to images and campus for Hartwick in 1991

    Hartwick's county seat held on to their Redskin almost 20 years longer, and their new Hawkeye at least has a local connection:


    Cooperstown Changes Mascot from Redskins to Hawkeyes


    “The Indian hunter is probably more in keeping with the name Hawkeyes because that’s just one of many nicknames of the white protagonist in Cooper’s novels,” said Tillapaugh, the village attorney. “For us in Cooperstown, it has such a local connection and is such a hero figure.”

    Lessons learned on how Cooperstown bid farewell to its Redskins mascot
     

    Hawkeye may be a German:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Adam_Hartmann
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lederstrumpfbrunnen

    So it's similar to the Ravens in Poe's Baltimore.

    Hey, wait a minute... Ravens and Eagles are the totems for Tlingit and Haida moieties. Why are Baltimore and Philadelphia allowed to appropriate them?

    , @Deckin
    Tuba City is in the Navajo Nation but is adjacent to the Hopi Reservation (which is completely surrounded by Navajo lands). So those could be kids with Hopi ancestry as well--heck, could be Apache, Anasazi, Pueblo, ...thrown into it as well.
  40. @syonredux
    Sometimes you win the genetic lottery...

    Lynda Carter with her sister and her Mestiza mother:


    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/51/32/59/513259ec22198bd2b1a8d17e6e53c4be.jpg

    https://bodyheightweight.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/lynda-carter-family-mother-Juana-Cordova-Carter.jpg

    Clearly, Lynda is expressing more of the European side of her ancestry....


    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8pkozpNA1OU/UG9DGyB_N9I/AAAAAAAAJzk/yj4A1Uk_yjI/s1600/lynda_carter_wonder_cleavage_wbxiNRy.jpg

    The sister looks kinda like Arianna Huffington when she was young. Only looks “unlucky” next to Lynda herself.

  41. @Michelle
    You just brought the tennis player, Rosie Casals to mind. She was of Salvadoran descent and only 5'2, but she was a powerhouse. Her great uncle was the Cellist, Pablo Casals. Rosie looked to be mostly Native-American.

    I was rather a fan of Rosie’s unusual looks in my youth, but then I found out she “served from the tramlines”, like so many sportswomen.

    • Replies: @Michelle
    I sensed that right away. But even Chris Evert seemed a bit manly in the face to me.
  42. @Anonymous
    The 'Anthony Quinn' syndrome.

    The Anthony Quinndrome.

  43. I would have figured that white privilege and white racism are making mestizos shorter.

  44. @syonredux
    Sometimes you win the genetic lottery...

    Lynda Carter with her sister and her Mestiza mother:


    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/51/32/59/513259ec22198bd2b1a8d17e6e53c4be.jpg

    https://bodyheightweight.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/lynda-carter-family-mother-Juana-Cordova-Carter.jpg

    Clearly, Lynda is expressing more of the European side of her ancestry....


    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8pkozpNA1OU/UG9DGyB_N9I/AAAAAAAAJzk/yj4A1Uk_yjI/s1600/lynda_carter_wonder_cleavage_wbxiNRy.jpg

    “Sometimes you win the genetic lottery…”

    Syonredux, yes, Linda sure is a natural wonder. Other famous offspring of a “Mestiza”, albeit one of a bit smaller stature:

    Jeb

  45. @Svevlad
    Diet gotta play an effect, just how it makes Brits ugly. I mean they're grain brained to the max. Switch 'em to a more high-protein diet and their height and athletic performance will improve too

    Short seems adaptive for ag though. Indian corn farmers and Chinese rice growers. Closer to the ground and probably not so affected by heat and humidity.

    Plus the diet.. I think it was Reich who said the Asians were taller pre-agriculture.

  46. @JohnPlywood
    Can people on this website ever stop making shit up? The southern regions of Spain are the tallest and where the North Euro admixture (due to Germanic and Indo-Iranian settlement after the fall of the empire) peaks.

    http://documentos.fedea.net/pubs/dt/2010/dt-2010-01.pdf

    Your link shows the tallest women are in Asturias in the far north and the tallest men in Madrid in the middle of the north.

    Using only the most recent cohort, the tallest men of the big regions is Castilla y Leon in the north and shortest is Andalucia, 4cm shorter.

    Further, there’s no reason to think Germanic settlement patterns after the fall of the Western Empire affected Spanish height, because there were just too few of them. I recall one estimate that the visigoths were only 6% of the Spanish population at the time of the Moorish invasion.

    Rather Spain, just like most every country in the temperate zone with a wide north-south range, has a height gradient, and it is ancient in origin.

    • Replies: @Hhsiii
    My friend from Asturias is 6’3”. I don’t think the moors got there. But Franco’s sidekicks managed to beat the local miners.

    Very euro. Cider, beef and seafood. Kinda like Normandy, even though that’s far away.
    , @JohnPlywood
    No, the link says that from 1950-1980 Andalucia and Extremadura were tied with Asturias for height, despite much lower life expectancy in the south. Of course Madrid is the tallest for men as cities tend to have taller people than rural areas; when accounting for development index the southern regions were the tallest and that's also reflected by the fact that they grew the fastest of all regions, indicating higher genetic height potential. The point is not which province is tallest but which provinces were tallest and growing fastest.

    Further, there’s no reason to think Germanic settlement patterns after the fall of the Western Empire affected Spanish height, because there were just too few of them. I recall one estimate that the visigoths were only 6% of the Spanish population at the time of the Moorish invasion.
     
    If I had a dime for ever time some commenter on an alt-right website told me they "recalled" a source they couldn't find, when in fact they actually imagined it in a schizophrenic stupor, I would be rich. The visigoths were one Germanic tribe of many who settled in southern Spain, along with the Iranian Alans, and your figure wouldn't include hybrids.

    Rather Spain, just like most every country in the temperate zone with a wide north-south range, has a height gradient, and it is ancient in origin.
     
    Which is of course impossible; as Spain's population is anything but ancient, with no time for natural selection to act on multiple population replacements that came from every direction, beginning with the extermination of the Cheddar Man-like inhabitants ca. 4500 years ago, who are the only group that could possibly have adapted to Spain's climate.

    Lots of regions aren't populated by people who are autocthonous to the area. People in southeastern Europe for example are a mixture of Balto-Slavs and pre-Slavic people who inhabited that region, and are taller than their more northerly neighbors, as well as the people who peeviously lived in the region. In Europe the single strongest correlate of male standing height appears to be the ratio of Y-DNA haplogroup I2. Not latitude.

    Other factors can come to violate the "gradient" like nutritional quality -- North vs South Korea being one example.

    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    True, the Visigoths and many of the other Germanic tribes were never numerous enough to seriously imprint their genetics and language on those they conquered. Britain seems to be the exception to the rule. The Saxons did have a major genetic imprint, especially in areas like East Anglia, and other than Wales and Cornwall pretty much stamped out the Celtic languages.
  47. Anthony Quinn was half Irish, 1/4 allegedly pure Spanish and 1/4 Indian.

    America used to get White or mostly White Mexican Hispanics. Some had German or Irish British immigrant grandparents, like Rita Hayworth and Anthony Quinn.

    Now we’re getting these very short Indians from Central America and southern Mexico. The parents want the girls to quit school at 14 and become maids restaurant help janitors. The parents want the boys to become day laborers at 14 like Dad .
    There’s no tradition of organized high school sports, just pick up
    Soccer.

    Employers are thrilled to have them.

    • Replies: @BB753
    Rita Hayworth wasn't half-Mexican, she was half-Spanish from a middle - class background from Seville.
    Her paternal uncle was the famous writer/translator Rafael Cansinos Assens.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Cansinos-Ass%C3%A9ns

    , @Anonymous

    The parents want the girls to quit school at 14 and become maids restaurant help janitors. The parents want the boys to become day laborers at 14 like Dad .
     
    In this they are realistic, because most of them have little aptitude for much else. I mean, they didn't learn Spanish in five hundred yers, and Mexico for all its faults is a place where a 100 IQ person can live better than a 100 IQ person anywhere but the US/Canada/Anglosphere or Western Europe or Japan. They aren't 100 IQ. Most are around 85, profoundly uncurious as to the rest of the world, and not likely to accomplish much besides breeding. They have evolved to be good at that.
  48. @TGGP

    It’s also likely that there is a height gradient among Native Americans. The tallest, such as the Blackfeet, appear to be up around the Canadian border with the shortest in North America down in Central America.
     
    That's somewhat surprising, since Allen's rule is that colder temperatures should result in an animal having a lower surface area to volume ratio, typically meaning shorter limbs and a stockier frame. On the other hand, the "pygmy" phenotype seems to be associated with jungles and the peasants of agricultural civilizations seem to be shorter than the typical non-pygmy hunter-gatherer.

    Protein in the diet has a lot do do with it, even if it’s high protein oats and wheat opposed to very low protein rice and corn.

  49. @TGGP

    It’s also likely that there is a height gradient among Native Americans. The tallest, such as the Blackfeet, appear to be up around the Canadian border with the shortest in North America down in Central America.
     
    That's somewhat surprising, since Allen's rule is that colder temperatures should result in an animal having a lower surface area to volume ratio, typically meaning shorter limbs and a stockier frame. On the other hand, the "pygmy" phenotype seems to be associated with jungles and the peasants of agricultural civilizations seem to be shorter than the typical non-pygmy hunter-gatherer.

    Because native nations don’t always live today where they originated from geographically. They’ve migrated over the continent thousands of miles, just like the Indo-European nations (the Franks, Saxons, Goths, etc.). The horse culture of the plains that gave the Blackfeet the mobility and present territory they now have is less than 300 years old.
    They didn’t always live near the present Canadian border any more than the Delaware nation always lived in modern Oklahoma.

  50. @Hypnotoad666
    Mexican whites came up with a great idea at the end of the Mexican Revolution - just declare that henceforth everyone in Mexico is a member of the same Mestizo race.

    Only one race = no racism. Problem solved.

    Now they can dominate all the elites institutions without the Mexican version of the New York Times nagging them about their "white privilege."

    And for bonus points, they can go to the U.S. and become affirmative action recipients who get to cut in line ahead of their co-ethnics who are assigned to the disfavored "White American Citizen" tribe. (Those Suckers!).

    True

    Veridad

  51. What % Mayan is Elizabeth Warren claiming this year?

  52. @william munny
    This is consistent with my impression that Mexicans used to be considered white, more-or-less, by Americans. People in most of America never saw a Mexican in real life, only those on TV and in the movies who appeared to be Spaniards. The peasant indigenous people were unknown here.

    This generally is in line with the migration of the short-statured, high fertility Indigenous from more equatorial regions of South America into Argentina & Chile. The Amerindians of Bolivia, Peru, Paraguay & Columbia have been trickling into the once relatively more European countries of Argentina, Panama, & Chile since 1920 or so.

    It would be interesting to know whether these migrations were correlated with convulsions of Leftism (eg the election of Salvador Allende in Chile) in the receiving countries.

    In the case of Mexico, it could also be migration northwards from Guatemala, El Salvador into MEX, or just internal migration from the Chiapas region to Mexico City & Monterrey.

  53. “San Diego’s Ted Williams, probably the best baseball hitter of all time, was half-Mexican.”

    Uh, someone named Babe Ruth might be considered to have that title. In his 1969 autobiography, Williams makes mention that his mother was half-Mexican, which would mean that he was about 1/4 Mexican.

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @Sparkon

    Uh, someone named Babe Ruth might be considered to have that title.
     
    Indeed, but Williams is a worthy claimant to the crown, and missed several seasons while he was flying fighters for Uncle Sam, both in WWII, and then again in Korea.

    Despite that, Ted Williams's career on-base percentage of .4817 is the highest ever, with Babe Ruth in 2nd place with .4739, but Ruth's Yankees won 4 World Series and 7 pennants, while the Red Sox with Williams played only in the '46 series, won by the Cardinals.

    Also in the top 20 career OBP are some familiar names:

    5. Gehrig (.4474)
    6. Bonds (.4443)
    8. Hornsby (.4337)
    9. Cobb (.4330)
    10. Foxx (.4283)
    18. Mantle (.4205)

    Willie Mays with a career OBP of .384 is not in the top 100.

    Well, don't quote me on this, but my impression is that Mexicans have rather small hands and feet. The reports I've seen just now indicate that there have been just 4 Mexican players in the NBA.

    In major league baseball, while there are numerous players from Latin America, few are from Mexico:

    This year, 251 players out of a pool of 882 players were born outside the 50 U.S. states, or nearly 29 percent. Of those, 220, or nearly 88 percent, of those born outside the 50 U.S. states, are from Latin America.

    The Dominican Republic leads the way with 102 players, followed by Venezuela with 68, Puerto Rico, a U.S. territory, with 18, and Cuba with 17.

    Just eight major-league players this year are from Mexico.
     
    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/immigration/2019/03/28/why-so-few-major-league-baseball-players-mexico-arizona-diamondbacks/3278995002/

    Psst. One theory is that many young Mexicans are too busy upholding the myth of Hispanic crime to have much time for sports.
  54. In that picture, Munoz slightly resembles an older Max Baer Jr. from the Beverly Hillbillies.

  55. Why is there no link to the BioRxiv quotation that begins this article? Is it the abstract of a technical paper? And is it just me who cannot parse this sentence?: “We show for height, a trait correlated with ancestry, polygenic risk scores based on summary statistics from a European-based genome-wide association study perform poorly in Mexican Americans.” What is the grammatical subject of the verb “perform”? What does it mean for scores to perform poorly in a demographic group for a trait like height?

    • Replies: @Pericles

    “We show for height, ... polygenic risk scores ... perform poorly in Mexican Americans.” What is the grammatical subject of the verb “perform”? What does it mean for scores to perform poorly in a demographic group for a trait like height?

     

    I believe the above is the parse. It appears they are saying the scoring approach does not do a good job of predicting height in this group.
  56. Very OT; worse, I am going to toot my own horn.

    On the 29th of December last I wrote the following somewhere here at Unz:

    “I think it likely that the “Duchess of Sussex” will be out of the royal family by this time next year. Her latest idea, to profit financially from her marriage to the half-brother of a future king by selling lines of clothing and who knows what else, will prove the final straw for everyone from the Queen on down.

    Will Harry sacrifice all, and head into oblivion with her? I certainly hope so.”

    Both my prediction and my hope have been fulfilled, and not a year, but barely three weeks later.

    I just knew that 2020 was going to be a good year.

    Two down, and Bergoglio to go.

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Thanks: Hail
    • Replies: @Clyde
    Good prediction by you on Duchess of Sussex...who is going, going, gone. Gone soon and divorced soon. I thought she might be out but not this soon. The Royal Family has been finessing her out of the picture, and more so since you posted. What a fraud and awful representative for America. She thought she was going to be able to cash in (monetize) her Royal status as Duchess of Sussex. What a kook and a very woke one, going by her annoying pronouncements.
    , @Hail
    Good work, Old Palo Altan.

    Your original post was in reply to this astute observation from Stephen Dodge:

    Stephen Dodge says:
    December 29, 2019 at 7:54 am GMT • 100 Words

    This is also why Britons get upset when members of the royal family choose their spouses for reasons that are not in line with what is best for the country. It is fine when one prince in line for the throne marries a silly woman because she is hot but not really all that gifted with other virtues, it is not so good when that goes on for a few generations.
     
    In reply to your original prediction, Kolya Krassotkin breezily counter-predicted:

    Kolya Krassotkin says:
    December 29, 2019 at 7:30 pm GMT • 100 Words
    @Old Palo Altan

    Ain’t going to happen. Uncle Andy with L’Affaire Epstein has already given the monarchy a good shaking, and if Liz-2 tries to send the Duchess of Sussex into exile, Markle will predictably yell “Rayciss!” and have all those new-fangled Londoners rioting in the streets.
     
    Old Palo Altan: 1.
    Kolya Krassotkin: 0.

    ___________

    Harry (formerly Prince Harry, then Duke of Sussex; now just Harry) and related persons' life timeline so far:

    - Sept. 1984: Prince Harry is born to Charles and Diana (following June 1982 birth of Prince William);
    - early to mid 1990s: Charles and Diana's marriage (m.1981) breaks down; separated by 1992; divorce finalized in Aug. 1996;
    - Aug. 1997: Harry's mother Diana dies in a car incident;
    - 2003: Pro-interracial-romance UK film Love Actually is released (see also the case of Decca Aitkenhead, London journalist, #106 and #107); Prince William, near his 21st birthday, announces his plans to master Swahili and work in Africa due to his "love" for Africa; Harry at this time (ages 18 and 19) is still under the political radar;
    - Jan. 2005: Harry makes headlines after he is photographed in 'Nazi' uniform at a friend's birthday dress-up theme party; international media humiliates him;
    - May 8, 2005 (V-E Day, 60th): Harry enters Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst, beginning ten-year term in UK military;
    - April 2011: Prince William, having abandoned his youthful but public plan to move semi-permanently to Black Africa, marries Catherine Middleton [b.1982], to whom he had been linked romantically since the mid-2000s (by 2018, two sons and a daughter born);
    - 2012 and 2013: Prince Harry serves five months in Afghanistan, during which time he "kill[s] insurgents" (his words) from the helm of the video-game-like (also his words) weapons system of an Apache helicopter;
    - June 2015: Harry ends army service; by this time he has had several known white girlfriends but each time broken up amicably;
    - July 2016: Harry is set up on a blind date with mulatta actress Meghan Markle [b. Aug. 1981; divorced, ex-husband a Jewish film producer; Markle is of Hollywood origin both in childhood and adulthood; by ancestry, 35%+? Subsaharan]; the relationship was public knowledge by late 2016; engagement announced in Nov. 2017;
    - 2016: Harry begins saying he
    - May 2018: Harry–Markle Wedding;
    - May 6, 2019: Birth of son, Archie;
    - 2019: Meghan Markle begins causing problems in royal family, complains of racism, pressures Harry to effectively abdicate and leave England; the abdication seems now finalized as of Jan. 2020. Harry (and "Archie") are out. (Harry's world falls apart by about the "Start of serious dating [late 2016] + 3 years" mark.)

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_utM7kXsAARzLi.jpg
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "Her latest idea, to profit financially from her marriage to the half-brother of a future king by selling lines of clothing and who knows what else, will prove the final straw for everyone from the Queen on down."

    Realistically speaking, she's not on the same level as Lynda Carter (or any nine or tens). And also, apparently he has turned down his share of the royal fortune, estimated somewhere in the neighborhood of ca. $90-100 billion. You'd really have to be naive to believe that she can make that sum up in a clothing line. $90 billion? Come on. What else can she sell that could even get half that amount? Unless you're suggesting she will do the Paris Hilton Kim Kardashian tape type of thing? Is that what this is? Cause there's really nothing else she can offer that would come close to earning $90 billion.
    , @Flip
    "Half brother." I dunno, he does look a lot like the young Prince Philip.
    , @Jim Don Bob
    Good for you, OPA.

    James Delingpole is his usual snarky self: https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/01/19/delingpole-megxit-ex-prince-harry-got-woke-now-hes-broke/

    And Sabo is back at it: https://pjmedia.com/trending/conservative-street-artist-mocks-ex-royals-meghan-and-harry-in-latest-hit/

    I sure hope Megan is good in the sack. I can't see anything else special about her.
  57. @william munny
    This is consistent with my impression that Mexicans used to be considered white, more-or-less, by Americans. People in most of America never saw a Mexican in real life, only those on TV and in the movies who appeared to be Spaniards. The peasant indigenous people were unknown here.

    true. I never met a Mexican in real life until I went to Mexico in 1993 when I was 23 years-old.
    I grew up in Philadelphia and attended college in New Jersey. In college I did meet some Latinos, and dated a girl who lived in the Latino Dorm at Rutgers. She was born in America , but her parents were from Peru. She hated living in the dorm because it was mostly Puerto Ricans and she complained that she had nothing in common with them. I did know a a student who was half Mexican , but I thought he was white until he told me his mother was Mexican.

    My mother still lives in Pennsylvania, and to this day she may never have met a Mexican in real life. She still has a white guy mowing her lawn and raking her leaves.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    In New Jersey, the further northwest you get, the fewer Hispanics of any stripe you find. Even in jobs traditionally staffed by them. When I go to a McDonald's in Sussex or Warren Counties, they are staff by pleasant white people. It's like walking into a Chick-Fil-A.
  58. Anon[373] • Disclaimer says:

    (Tony Gonzalez of Southern California might be the best NFL tight end of all time but I don’t think he’s Mexican — but in any case I still want to see a reality TV show where he hangs out at Jeff Bezos’s house to toss the football around with his son, Bezos’s new stepson).

  59. @Lot
    The other big concentration of white Mexicans is around Mexico City.

    If you’d like to see some typical phenotypes of working upper class Mexico City people, look here:

    https://www.jonesday.com/en/site-search#q=Mexico%20City&t=coveofcda7246&sort=relevancy&f:@facetz95xlocation=%5BMexico%20City%5D&f:@facetz95xlanguage=%5BEnglish%5D

    Out of 36, I see 1 pale blond guy, another dark-blond guy, 1 blue-eyed Ashkenazi Jew, 3 or 4 who look about 20-30 Indian, and the rest look like people off the street in Madrid, including Steve’s bald brother.

    https://www.jonesday.com/-/media/images/attorneys/c/jcortes.jpg

    He looks like a Bond villain.

  60. @Ano
    Excuse me Mr Sailer, where does Lee Trevino at 5 foot 7 fit in here?

    >asking question about a man’s height
    >5’7″
    >Patrick McGoohan’s character’s name not detected
    And into the very short wastebasket it goes.

  61. @syonredux
    Sometimes you win the genetic lottery...

    Lynda Carter with her sister and her Mestiza mother:


    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/51/32/59/513259ec22198bd2b1a8d17e6e53c4be.jpg

    https://bodyheightweight.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/lynda-carter-family-mother-Juana-Cordova-Carter.jpg

    Clearly, Lynda is expressing more of the European side of her ancestry....


    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8pkozpNA1OU/UG9DGyB_N9I/AAAAAAAAJzk/yj4A1Uk_yjI/s1600/lynda_carter_wonder_cleavage_wbxiNRy.jpg

    Good God,I’d take the sister in a heartbeat.

  62. Lots of Mexicans and other Hispanics post their results at the 23andme subredit. I notice many that look more or less like unmixed Southern Euros often have substantial native ancestry.

    I also notice that minor African ancestry is almost universal in Latin Americans.

  63. @Hypnotoad666

    The tallest, such as the Blackfeet, appear to be up around the Canadian border
     
    If two members of the Blackfoot tribe are standing together I am pretty sure that, gramatically speaking, they aren't two "Blackfeet." (Although perhaps they have four black feet between them.)

    I just wanted to point this out before steve gets any angry (but taciturn) letters from the tribe.

    If two members of the Blackfoot tribe are standing together I am pretty sure that, gramatically speaking, they aren’t two “Blackfeet.”

    Two traditional religious practitioners of that tribe,

    Blackfeet shamen?

  64. @Hypnotoad666

    The tallest, such as the Blackfeet, appear to be up around the Canadian border
     
    If two members of the Blackfoot tribe are standing together I am pretty sure that, gramatically speaking, they aren't two "Blackfeet." (Although perhaps they have four black feet between them.)

    I just wanted to point this out before steve gets any angry (but taciturn) letters from the tribe.

    It’s Blackfeet. Singular is not Blackfoot.

    Maybe you have them confused with the river.

    • Replies: @anon
    If a Blackfeet has one foot and two feet, and a Blackfoot has two feet and one foot, how many Blackfeet feet are in a Blackfoot?
  65. @Hannah Katz
    A friend from California was visiting Austin (don't they all) and remarked that the Hispanic women here are more attractive than those in California. Considering that most of the established Mexican Americans in the Austin area are Mestizos from northern Mexico, while most of those in SoCal are indigenous folks from poor southern Mexican states, it makes sense.

    Seems that the European Mexicans are dumping their Indigenous Mexican populations on us, and have been doing so for some time. Whey would they want to lose these "best and brightest" from among their ranks? After all, diversity is their strength, or is that just in the West?

    Not all native-Mexicans look the same. Indians from Coahiula, Chihuahua and the north have nicer features IMO than the Indios in the south. Mixed in with a higher percentage of European genes they are much more noble looking than their darker shorter cousins.

  66. The tallest, such as the Blackfeet, appear to be up around the Canadian border with the shortest in North America down in Central America.

    Gravity is stronger down there:

  67. OT, but if anyone wants to see what’s going on in France (but not reported in “our” media) search twitter for hashtag #acte62 – that’s right, the protests are into their 15th month.

    https://twitter.com/zorba_grec/status/1218645635307573248

  68. @Old Palo Altan
    Very OT; worse, I am going to toot my own horn.

    On the 29th of December last I wrote the following somewhere here at Unz:

    "I think it likely that the “Duchess of Sussex” will be out of the royal family by this time next year. Her latest idea, to profit financially from her marriage to the half-brother of a future king by selling lines of clothing and who knows what else, will prove the final straw for everyone from the Queen on down.

    Will Harry sacrifice all, and head into oblivion with her? I certainly hope so."

    Both my prediction and my hope have been fulfilled, and not a year, but barely three weeks later.

    I just knew that 2020 was going to be a good year.

    Two down, and Bergoglio to go.

    Good prediction by you on Duchess of Sussex…who is going, going, gone. Gone soon and divorced soon. I thought she might be out but not this soon. The Royal Family has been finessing her out of the picture, and more so since you posted. What a fraud and awful representative for America. She thought she was going to be able to cash in (monetize) her Royal status as Duchess of Sussex. What a kook and a very woke one, going by her annoying pronouncements.

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    This reminds me of Colin Kapernick who married some chick who was not worthy that radicalized him and took him nowhere. Bad choice but it is too late now.
  69. @Realist

    People in most of America never saw a Mexican in real life, only those on TV and in the movies who appeared to be Spaniards. The peasant indigenous people were unknown here.
     
    Those were the days. Bring back the Cisco Kid...especially Pancho.

    Speedy Gonzalez was very short.

    • Replies: @Realist

    Speedy Gonzalez was very short.
     
    ...and kind of mousy.
    , @SteveRogers42
    As was Go-go Gomez.
  70. @Old Palo Altan
    Very OT; worse, I am going to toot my own horn.

    On the 29th of December last I wrote the following somewhere here at Unz:

    "I think it likely that the “Duchess of Sussex” will be out of the royal family by this time next year. Her latest idea, to profit financially from her marriage to the half-brother of a future king by selling lines of clothing and who knows what else, will prove the final straw for everyone from the Queen on down.

    Will Harry sacrifice all, and head into oblivion with her? I certainly hope so."

    Both my prediction and my hope have been fulfilled, and not a year, but barely three weeks later.

    I just knew that 2020 was going to be a good year.

    Two down, and Bergoglio to go.

    Good work, Old Palo Altan.

    Your original post was in reply to this astute observation from Stephen Dodge:

    Stephen Dodge says:
    December 29, 2019 at 7:54 am GMT • 100 Words

    This is also why Britons get upset when members of the royal family choose their spouses for reasons that are not in line with what is best for the country. It is fine when one prince in line for the throne marries a silly woman because she is hot but not really all that gifted with other virtues, it is not so good when that goes on for a few generations.

    In reply to your original prediction, Kolya Krassotkin breezily counter-predicted:

    Kolya Krassotkin says:
    December 29, 2019 at 7:30 pm GMT • 100 Words

    Ain’t going to happen. Uncle Andy with L’Affaire Epstein has already given the monarchy a good shaking, and if Liz-2 tries to send the Duchess of Sussex into exile, Markle will predictably yell “Rayciss!” and have all those new-fangled Londoners rioting in the streets.

    Old Palo Altan: 1.
    Kolya Krassotkin: 0.

    ___________

    Harry (formerly Prince Harry, then Duke of Sussex; now just Harry) and related persons’ life timeline so far:

    Sept. 1984: Prince Harry is born to Charles and Diana (following June 1982 birth of Prince William);
    early to mid 1990s: Charles and Diana’s marriage (m.1981) breaks down; separated by 1992; divorce finalized in Aug. 1996;
    Aug. 1997: Harry’s mother Diana dies in a car incident;
    2003: Pro-interracial-romance UK film Love Actually is released (see also the case of Decca Aitkenhead, London journalist, #106 and #107); Prince William, near his 21st birthday, announces his plans to master Swahili and work in Africa due to his “love” for Africa; Harry at this time (ages 18 and 19) is still under the political radar;
    Jan. 2005: Harry makes headlines after he is photographed in ‘Nazi’ uniform at a friend’s birthday dress-up theme party; international media humiliates him;
    May 8, 2005 (V-E Day, 60th): Harry enters Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst, beginning ten-year term in UK military;
    April 2011: Prince William, having abandoned his youthful but public plan to move semi-permanently to Black Africa, marries Catherine Middleton [b.1982], to whom he had been linked romantically since the mid-2000s (by 2018, two sons and a daughter born);
    2012 and 2013: Prince Harry serves five months in Afghanistan, during which time he “kill[s] insurgents” (his words) from the helm of the video-game-like (also his words) weapons system of an Apache helicopter;
    June 2015: Harry ends army service; by this time he has had several known white girlfriends but each time broken up amicably;
    July 2016: Harry is set up on a blind date with mulatta actress Meghan Markle [b. Aug. 1981; divorced, ex-husband a Jewish film producer; Markle is of Hollywood origin both in childhood and adulthood; by ancestry, 35%+? Subsaharan]; the relationship was public knowledge by late 2016; engagement announced in Nov. 2017;
    – 2016: Harry begins saying he
    May 2018: Harry–Markle Wedding;
    May 6, 2019: Birth of son, Archie;
    2019: Meghan Markle begins causing problems in royal family, complains of racism, pressures Harry to effectively abdicate and leave England; the abdication seems now finalized as of Jan. 2020. Harry (and “Archie”) are out. (Harry’s world falls apart by about the “Start of serious dating [late 2016] + 3 years” mark.)

    • Replies: @CrunchyButRealistCon
    As photo-shopped as that son of Harry & Megan looks to be, it seriously would not surprise me is Harry was cucked by Megan. She comes off as a 'no holds barred' conniver. Willing to do anything that her lizard brain suggests in a dark moment.
    , @Lot
    “ 35%+? Subsaharan”

    She looks a lot less than that, 0% with the right hair and makeup in many recent photos, maybe 20-25% with untreated hair and a tan in childhood photos (like a lighter Puerto Rican girl).

    Looking at her mother though, she seems very typical of Heritage Blacks in her hair, color and facial features, other than her eyes being pleasantly shaped and a nice clear shade of pure brown rather than blackish.

    Reference pics:

    Pure West African lady from Nigeria

    https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2015/03/26/20/Nigeria.jpg

    MM and her ~70% SSA mother:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2018/05/15/TELEMMGLPICT000162650986_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqH8g0IxmZhOOFzRvM6k8ERvr7sARQy7EgBjwPUzvqL_M.jpeg?imwidth=450

    In bright light they look paler:

    http://img4.thelist.com/img/uploads/2018/05/meghan-markle-mother-doria-ragland-780x438_rev1.jpg

    With parents in childhood

    http://dtlon6z3v1kfl.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/09145730/NINTCHDBPICT0004203405967.jpg
    , @Kolya Krassotkin
    Ah, but my dear Hail, the game has only begun. Unless young Harry resorts to decisively dealing with his obstreperous spouse as did his ancestor Harry-8, there remain countless rounds yet to play, and although she may be a shrew, dispatching her would be bad optics.
  71. @Dtbb
    Every account by Spanish explorers remarks how tall and well put together the Indians were.

    I’ve read several memoirs of 19th century frontiersmen and soldiers and they consistently report on the generally small, almost feminine physique of the male American Indians.

  72. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    The Texas Rangers - aka "Rinches" - sure as hell didn't consider Mexicans to be white.

    There was a race war on the Texas-Mexico border…..

    Plan of San Diego

    The plan called for the killing of all adult white American men in the Southwestern states[1] and the “return of land to Mexicans.” It was, however, exposed before it could be fully executed. Although there was no uprising, there were raids into Texas that began in July 1915. The raids were countered by Texas Rangers, the U.S. Army and local self-defense groups. In total, 30 raids into Texas destroyed large amounts of property and killed 21 Americans.[2] It is not known who was responsible for drafting the Plan of San Diego, but there are theories that Mexican revolutionary leaders helped to sponsor it.

    Declaring the creation of a Liberating Army of Races and Peoples, the Plan of San Diego called for the recruitment of Mexican nationals, African Americans, Native Americans and Mexican Americans to rebel against the United States.[2] The central goal of the plan was to “free Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, and Colorado from U.S. control” (see Reconquista).[4] These states would become an independent republic that in the future could be reunited with Mexico. To the north, rebels hoped to conquer other states to produce a buffer zone between the United States and Mexico.

    On February 20, 1915, the plan was called for starting the execution of “North American” men over the age of 16; only the elderly as well as women and children were to be spared.[3]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_of_San_Diego

    Mexican Border War (1910–1919)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Border_War_(1910%E2%80%931919)

    Bandit War

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandit_War

  73. @Alden
    Anthony Quinn was half Irish, 1/4 allegedly pure Spanish and 1/4 Indian.

    America used to get White or mostly White Mexican Hispanics. Some had German or Irish British immigrant grandparents, like Rita Hayworth and Anthony Quinn.

    Now we’re getting these very short Indians from Central America and southern Mexico. The parents want the girls to quit school at 14 and become maids restaurant help janitors. The parents want the boys to become day laborers at 14 like Dad .
    There’s no tradition of organized high school sports, just pick up
    Soccer.

    Employers are thrilled to have them.

    Rita Hayworth wasn’t half-Mexican, she was half-Spanish from a middle – class background from Seville.
    Her paternal uncle was the famous writer/translator Rafael Cansinos Assens.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Cansinos-Ass%C3%A9ns

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Hayworth's maternal uncle, Vinton Hayworth, was married to Ginger Rogers' maternal aunt, Jean Owens.
    , @Alden
    I know she wasn’t half Mexican. Her father was a Spanish immigrant, her mother Irish American.
  74. @Lot
    The biggest US Indian Tribe are the Navajo, who are fairly recent migrants from the north to the desert SW.

    They look like a hybrid of NE Asians or Eskimos with regular “redskin” American Indians.

    http://assets.azpreps365.com/teams/photos/original/000/095/193/2017%20TCHS%20Varsity-State%20Volleyball.jpg

    https://westernnews.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2018/07/03/2009_Family_Travels_316_t715.jpg?529764a1de2bdd0f74a9fb4f856b01a9d617b3e9

    On another topic, NY Times prints a liberal immigration restriction article, and the comments are very positive, even the “NY Picks.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/16/opinion/immigration-democrats.html

    Does Tuba City ever take on Yuba City?

    How come they get to keep the name Warriors? Scott Adams’s Hartwick was pressured to abandon it 25 years ago:

    ‘Dilbert,’ changes to images and campus for Hartwick in 1991

    Hartwick’s county seat held on to their Redskin almost 20 years longer, and their new Hawkeye at least has a local connection:

    Cooperstown Changes Mascot from Redskins to Hawkeyes

    “The Indian hunter is probably more in keeping with the name Hawkeyes because that’s just one of many nicknames of the white protagonist in Cooper’s novels,” said Tillapaugh, the village attorney. “For us in Cooperstown, it has such a local connection and is such a hero figure.”

    Lessons learned on how Cooperstown bid farewell to its Redskins mascot

    Hawkeye may be a German:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Adam_Hartmann
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lederstrumpfbrunnen

    So it’s similar to the Ravens in Poe’s Baltimore.

    Hey, wait a minute… Ravens and Eagles are the totems for Tlingit and Haida moieties. Why are Baltimore and Philadelphia allowed to appropriate them?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Quoth the Titans, "Nevermore."
  75. @Hypnotoad666
    Mexican whites came up with a great idea at the end of the Mexican Revolution - just declare that henceforth everyone in Mexico is a member of the same Mestizo race.

    Only one race = no racism. Problem solved.

    Now they can dominate all the elites institutions without the Mexican version of the New York Times nagging them about their "white privilege."

    And for bonus points, they can go to the U.S. and become affirmative action recipients who get to cut in line ahead of their co-ethnics who are assigned to the disfavored "White American Citizen" tribe. (Those Suckers!).

    exactly.

    The concept of La Raza can be traced to the ideas and writings of Jose Vasconcelos, the Mexican theorist who developed the theory of la Raza cosmica (the cosmic or super race). Vasconelos developed a systematic theory which argued that climatic and geographic conditions and mixture of Spanish and Indian races created a superior race.

    In other words, La Raza is the Master Race, but rather than based on notions of racial purity, La Raza’s inherent, biological superiority is based on its hybridity, on the mixing in Latin America of , “the black, the Indian, the Mongol, and the white.” La Raza tries to whitewash this by writing that “this is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.” Not really; what it really means is that Hispanics, and specifically Mestizos, are superior to those of us unfortunate enough not to be part La Raza.

    • Replies: @The Wild Geese Howard
    This sounds really similar to the pap that Coudenhove-Kalergi was peddling with regard to the future inhabitants of the European continent.
    , @jimla
    Vasconcelos was very explicit that the dominant traits of La Raza Cosmica should be European. The way to guarantee that was incentivizing European migration.
  76. Presumably, this means that individuals of some but not high degree of Mexican descent don’t identify as Mexican-American.

    I suspect US has a much higher percentage of “Hispanics” than the polls indicate. Many Hispanics identify as white and assimilate into White American identity.

    I also suspect these type of “White” Hispanics are more likely to vote Republican. That is one reason why the impending Democratic majority has not happened yet.

  77. @YetAnotherAnon
    I was rather a fan of Rosie's unusual looks in my youth, but then I found out she "served from the tramlines", like so many sportswomen.

    I sensed that right away. But even Chris Evert seemed a bit manly in the face to me.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Chris Evert is very much straight, although she isn't an Indian.
  78. @Hail
    Good work, Old Palo Altan.

    Your original post was in reply to this astute observation from Stephen Dodge:

    Stephen Dodge says:
    December 29, 2019 at 7:54 am GMT • 100 Words

    This is also why Britons get upset when members of the royal family choose their spouses for reasons that are not in line with what is best for the country. It is fine when one prince in line for the throne marries a silly woman because she is hot but not really all that gifted with other virtues, it is not so good when that goes on for a few generations.
     
    In reply to your original prediction, Kolya Krassotkin breezily counter-predicted:

    Kolya Krassotkin says:
    December 29, 2019 at 7:30 pm GMT • 100 Words
    @Old Palo Altan

    Ain’t going to happen. Uncle Andy with L’Affaire Epstein has already given the monarchy a good shaking, and if Liz-2 tries to send the Duchess of Sussex into exile, Markle will predictably yell “Rayciss!” and have all those new-fangled Londoners rioting in the streets.
     
    Old Palo Altan: 1.
    Kolya Krassotkin: 0.

    ___________

    Harry (formerly Prince Harry, then Duke of Sussex; now just Harry) and related persons' life timeline so far:

    - Sept. 1984: Prince Harry is born to Charles and Diana (following June 1982 birth of Prince William);
    - early to mid 1990s: Charles and Diana's marriage (m.1981) breaks down; separated by 1992; divorce finalized in Aug. 1996;
    - Aug. 1997: Harry's mother Diana dies in a car incident;
    - 2003: Pro-interracial-romance UK film Love Actually is released (see also the case of Decca Aitkenhead, London journalist, #106 and #107); Prince William, near his 21st birthday, announces his plans to master Swahili and work in Africa due to his "love" for Africa; Harry at this time (ages 18 and 19) is still under the political radar;
    - Jan. 2005: Harry makes headlines after he is photographed in 'Nazi' uniform at a friend's birthday dress-up theme party; international media humiliates him;
    - May 8, 2005 (V-E Day, 60th): Harry enters Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst, beginning ten-year term in UK military;
    - April 2011: Prince William, having abandoned his youthful but public plan to move semi-permanently to Black Africa, marries Catherine Middleton [b.1982], to whom he had been linked romantically since the mid-2000s (by 2018, two sons and a daughter born);
    - 2012 and 2013: Prince Harry serves five months in Afghanistan, during which time he "kill[s] insurgents" (his words) from the helm of the video-game-like (also his words) weapons system of an Apache helicopter;
    - June 2015: Harry ends army service; by this time he has had several known white girlfriends but each time broken up amicably;
    - July 2016: Harry is set up on a blind date with mulatta actress Meghan Markle [b. Aug. 1981; divorced, ex-husband a Jewish film producer; Markle is of Hollywood origin both in childhood and adulthood; by ancestry, 35%+? Subsaharan]; the relationship was public knowledge by late 2016; engagement announced in Nov. 2017;
    - 2016: Harry begins saying he
    - May 2018: Harry–Markle Wedding;
    - May 6, 2019: Birth of son, Archie;
    - 2019: Meghan Markle begins causing problems in royal family, complains of racism, pressures Harry to effectively abdicate and leave England; the abdication seems now finalized as of Jan. 2020. Harry (and "Archie") are out. (Harry's world falls apart by about the "Start of serious dating [late 2016] + 3 years" mark.)

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_utM7kXsAARzLi.jpg

    As photo-shopped as that son of Harry & Megan looks to be, it seriously would not surprise me is Harry was cucked by Megan. She comes off as a ‘no holds barred’ conniver. Willing to do anything that her lizard brain suggests in a dark moment.

    • Replies: @Whiskey
    In other words, the average Western woman.
  79. @Hail
    Good work, Old Palo Altan.

    Your original post was in reply to this astute observation from Stephen Dodge:

    Stephen Dodge says:
    December 29, 2019 at 7:54 am GMT • 100 Words

    This is also why Britons get upset when members of the royal family choose their spouses for reasons that are not in line with what is best for the country. It is fine when one prince in line for the throne marries a silly woman because she is hot but not really all that gifted with other virtues, it is not so good when that goes on for a few generations.
     
    In reply to your original prediction, Kolya Krassotkin breezily counter-predicted:

    Kolya Krassotkin says:
    December 29, 2019 at 7:30 pm GMT • 100 Words
    @Old Palo Altan

    Ain’t going to happen. Uncle Andy with L’Affaire Epstein has already given the monarchy a good shaking, and if Liz-2 tries to send the Duchess of Sussex into exile, Markle will predictably yell “Rayciss!” and have all those new-fangled Londoners rioting in the streets.
     
    Old Palo Altan: 1.
    Kolya Krassotkin: 0.

    ___________

    Harry (formerly Prince Harry, then Duke of Sussex; now just Harry) and related persons' life timeline so far:

    - Sept. 1984: Prince Harry is born to Charles and Diana (following June 1982 birth of Prince William);
    - early to mid 1990s: Charles and Diana's marriage (m.1981) breaks down; separated by 1992; divorce finalized in Aug. 1996;
    - Aug. 1997: Harry's mother Diana dies in a car incident;
    - 2003: Pro-interracial-romance UK film Love Actually is released (see also the case of Decca Aitkenhead, London journalist, #106 and #107); Prince William, near his 21st birthday, announces his plans to master Swahili and work in Africa due to his "love" for Africa; Harry at this time (ages 18 and 19) is still under the political radar;
    - Jan. 2005: Harry makes headlines after he is photographed in 'Nazi' uniform at a friend's birthday dress-up theme party; international media humiliates him;
    - May 8, 2005 (V-E Day, 60th): Harry enters Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst, beginning ten-year term in UK military;
    - April 2011: Prince William, having abandoned his youthful but public plan to move semi-permanently to Black Africa, marries Catherine Middleton [b.1982], to whom he had been linked romantically since the mid-2000s (by 2018, two sons and a daughter born);
    - 2012 and 2013: Prince Harry serves five months in Afghanistan, during which time he "kill[s] insurgents" (his words) from the helm of the video-game-like (also his words) weapons system of an Apache helicopter;
    - June 2015: Harry ends army service; by this time he has had several known white girlfriends but each time broken up amicably;
    - July 2016: Harry is set up on a blind date with mulatta actress Meghan Markle [b. Aug. 1981; divorced, ex-husband a Jewish film producer; Markle is of Hollywood origin both in childhood and adulthood; by ancestry, 35%+? Subsaharan]; the relationship was public knowledge by late 2016; engagement announced in Nov. 2017;
    - 2016: Harry begins saying he
    - May 2018: Harry–Markle Wedding;
    - May 6, 2019: Birth of son, Archie;
    - 2019: Meghan Markle begins causing problems in royal family, complains of racism, pressures Harry to effectively abdicate and leave England; the abdication seems now finalized as of Jan. 2020. Harry (and "Archie") are out. (Harry's world falls apart by about the "Start of serious dating [late 2016] + 3 years" mark.)

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_utM7kXsAARzLi.jpg

    “ 35%+? Subsaharan”

    She looks a lot less than that, 0% with the right hair and makeup in many recent photos, maybe 20-25% with untreated hair and a tan in childhood photos (like a lighter Puerto Rican girl).

    Looking at her mother though, she seems very typical of Heritage Blacks in her hair, color and facial features, other than her eyes being pleasantly shaped and a nice clear shade of pure brown rather than blackish.

    Reference pics:

    Pure West African lady from Nigeria

    MM and her ~70% SSA mother:

    In bright light they look paler:

    With parents in childhood

    • Replies: @James Braxton
    My friend, never forget 1 drop = 100%
    , @anonymous jew
    Castizos /Moriscos usually look better than mestizos/mulattos.

    We really need to adopt some of that clever Spanish taxonomy. The whole one-drop rule or Mexico's "we're all Mestizos" line just doesn't cut it. Especially as HBD awareness grows.
    , @S. Anonyia
    I’d put her around 1/3 SSA. Black features are not as dominant as people assume. There are some quadroons around here and I can’t even tell they have black ancestry. They generally have softer looking hair than Megan.
    , @Hail
    As might be expected with a royal wedding, people have done some real spadework on the genealogy:

    Mother's name: Doria Ragland (b.1956)

    Mother's mother: Jeanette Arnold (1929–2000) (first married name: Johnson)
    Mother's father: Alvin Azell Ragland (1929–2011)

    https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/11/29/23/46D25C2C00000578-5130473-image-a-58_1511999476030.jpg

    Alvin Azell Ragland had a father descended from a line of 'Mulattoes' (as determined by the census) back to mid-19th century Georgia; he had a mother whose family was listed exclusively as 'Negroes' (by the censuses of their time) in Tennessee (early 20th century) and Alabama (19th century).

    We can probably put Alvin Ragland's paternal component at 40–50% Subsaharan (both lines paternal lines there were Mulatto, and at least one of his great-grandparents was full-white. A white Georgia woman named Texie Hendrick, it turns out, bore a Black man's child in 1881 Georgia -- I don't know the rest of that story, but given the time and place, it must have been a scandal; the child was Alvin's grandfather). If Alvin Ragland's maternal component ('Negro') was the usual 80%+ Subsaharan, Alvin himself would be 60–65% Subsaharan.

    Jeanette Arnold (first married name: Johnson) was probably a more typical 80% Subsaharan, judging by pictures.

    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/genealogy/images/e/ea/Ragland2017h2.jpg

    Alvin Ragland: 60–65%
    Jeanette Arnold: 80%
    = 70–72.5% for Meghan Markle's mom's Subsaharan ancestry estimate based on paper-genealogy and in consultation with pictures.

    Hence the 35%+ Subsaharan for Meghan Markle herself.
  80. @Hypnotoad666

    The tallest, such as the Blackfeet, appear to be up around the Canadian border
     
    If two members of the Blackfoot tribe are standing together I am pretty sure that, gramatically speaking, they aren't two "Blackfeet." (Although perhaps they have four black feet between them.)

    I just wanted to point this out before steve gets any angry (but taciturn) letters from the tribe.

    I believe that Bilbo Baggins was corrected, at his eleventy-first birthday party, for calling relatives “Proudfoots.” A cry came from the assemblage, “ProudFEET.”

  81. @Carol
    It's Blackfeet. Singular is not Blackfoot.

    Maybe you have them confused with the river.

    If a Blackfeet has one foot and two feet, and a Blackfoot has two feet and one foot, how many Blackfeet feet are in a Blackfoot?

    • LOL: R.G. Camara
  82. @The Wild Geese Howard
    So, they're literally becoming more and more Squatemalan with the passage of time.

    That would be the long and short of it.

    We’re getting the shortest, brownest, and for the most part dumbest and least adaptable Mexicans. The mostlywhite elite says ¡Gracias!….well, actually, they don’t, they rightly hold the gringos in contempt.

  83. anon[417] • Disclaimer says:
    @YetAnotherAnon
    Why aren't Bolivians and Peruvians up there with the Kenyans in long distance running?

    Has that been bred out of them with 400 years of Spanish-enforced selection for gold and tin mining slaves?

    Or would they be up there if they were allowed to chew coca leaves?

    Why aren’t Bolivians and Peruvians up there with the Kenyans in long distance running?

    Has that been bred out of them with 400 years of Spanish-enforced selection for gold and tin mining slaves?

    Perhaps when they were slaves of the Inca most were potato-plot diggers, few were messenger-runners.

    The Tarahumara might be able to give Kenyans some competition, if the Mexican government ever could be bothered to go find out.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Kenyan runners tend to be descended from horseless cowboys running after lost stray calves.
  84. BLOOMBERG BOOGALOO
    NO GUNS NO VOTES
    Virginian Jacobins aren’t just imposing unconstitutional gun control on their Vendee, they’re also using the gun rights noise to sneak through complete political disenfranchisement.
    https://postimg.cc/YG8wgy6h

  85. @anon
    Why aren’t Bolivians and Peruvians up there with the Kenyans in long distance running?

    Has that been bred out of them with 400 years of Spanish-enforced selection for gold and tin mining slaves?

    Perhaps when they were slaves of the Inca most were potato-plot diggers, few were messenger-runners.

    The Tarahumara might be able to give Kenyans some competition, if the Mexican government ever could be bothered to go find out.

    Kenyan runners tend to be descended from horseless cowboys running after lost stray calves.

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Right; no horses in America for millennia until the Europeans reintroduced them – the environmentalist, nature-boy Indians who tear ip at garbage on the roadside hunted all the horses in America to extinction – to eat them!

    So why didn't these fools become word class runners by chasing bison across Nebraska, or something? Because no property. No one was chasing "his" bison, needed for dairy, breeding, or whatever. He was only ever chasing "a" bison, from the herd at hand, and the slowest one would do.....
    , @anon
    Kenyan runners tend to be descended from horseless cowboys running after lost stray calves.

    Tarahumara are different. Some of them find marathons boring, because they are too short.

    https://www.runnersworld.com/runners-stories/a20954821/born-to-run-secrets-of-the-tarahumara/
  86. @Travis
    true. I never met a Mexican in real life until I went to Mexico in 1993 when I was 23 years-old.
    I grew up in Philadelphia and attended college in New Jersey. In college I did meet some Latinos, and dated a girl who lived in the Latino Dorm at Rutgers. She was born in America , but her parents were from Peru. She hated living in the dorm because it was mostly Puerto Ricans and she complained that she had nothing in common with them. I did know a a student who was half Mexican , but I thought he was white until he told me his mother was Mexican.

    My mother still lives in Pennsylvania, and to this day she may never have met a Mexican in real life. She still has a white guy mowing her lawn and raking her leaves.

    In New Jersey, the further northwest you get, the fewer Hispanics of any stripe you find. Even in jobs traditionally staffed by them. When I go to a McDonald’s in Sussex or Warren Counties, they are staff by pleasant white people. It’s like walking into a Chick-Fil-A.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    In New Jersey, the further northwest you get, the fewer Hispanics of any stripe you find. Even in jobs traditionally staffed by them.
     
    In LA the fast food industry is so universally staffed by Mayan looking Hispanics that you can't help but mentally associate the two.

    It was frankly jarring when I was in Utah awhile back and had tall, blonde model-looking teenage girls taking my burger order at McDonalds and Carl's Jr.

  87. These days there are rewards for identifying as Latino, but I’m sure some people who are 1/4th or 1/8th don’t bother.

    One of my students is so obviously German that she could be pictured on a Hitler Youth poster. However, in our records she is listed as Hispanic. One day I asked her about this. She said that her mother was born in Argentina. So now I refer to her as the Nazi.

    On our field trip to the Jewish Heritage museum their cafeteria was closed, so we had the students pack their lunches. She decided to bring a ham-and-cheese sandwich on a bagel.

    • LOL: R.G. Camara
    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
    Racist much?

    Don't let your student hear you calling her the Nazi behind her back, or she'll sue your butt, which you richly deserve.

    , @anon
    Bagels are a Russian bread, co-opted in this country along with Lox, by the ancient civilisation that has no culinary tradition (No, not the english).
  88. Because there’s no wall to jump?

    *rimshot*

    I’ll be here all week folks!

  89. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden
    Anthony Quinn was half Irish, 1/4 allegedly pure Spanish and 1/4 Indian.

    America used to get White or mostly White Mexican Hispanics. Some had German or Irish British immigrant grandparents, like Rita Hayworth and Anthony Quinn.

    Now we’re getting these very short Indians from Central America and southern Mexico. The parents want the girls to quit school at 14 and become maids restaurant help janitors. The parents want the boys to become day laborers at 14 like Dad .
    There’s no tradition of organized high school sports, just pick up
    Soccer.

    Employers are thrilled to have them.

    The parents want the girls to quit school at 14 and become maids restaurant help janitors. The parents want the boys to become day laborers at 14 like Dad .

    In this they are realistic, because most of them have little aptitude for much else. I mean, they didn’t learn Spanish in five hundred yers, and Mexico for all its faults is a place where a 100 IQ person can live better than a 100 IQ person anywhere but the US/Canada/Anglosphere or Western Europe or Japan. They aren’t 100 IQ. Most are around 85, profoundly uncurious as to the rest of the world, and not likely to accomplish much besides breeding. They have evolved to be good at that.

  90. @YetAnotherAnon
    Why aren't Bolivians and Peruvians up there with the Kenyans in long distance running?

    Has that been bred out of them with 400 years of Spanish-enforced selection for gold and tin mining slaves?

    Or would they be up there if they were allowed to chew coca leaves?

    Peruvians do excel given at a Latinamerican level, from the expected towns, that is high altitude towns, but they are very short. Spanish chronicles tell of how the Inca would select their messengers, remember there were not horses, from certain ayllus, ie related communities, as tribute from that ayllu.

  91. OT
    https://www.cosmopolitan.com/lifestyle/a30284631/amish-sexual-abuse-incest-me-too/

    “The Amish Keep to Themselves. And They’re Hiding a Horrifying Secret

    A year of reporting by Cosmo and Type Investigations reveals a culture of incest, rape, and abuse.”

    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
    Now will Cosmo ever have the balls to investigate the sexual abuse that's an open seceret among the Hassidim?
  92. It could be worthy to study fertility differentials by race within Mexico. I could imagine the Amerindian Mexicans churning out more kids than White Mexicans, thus the “Reddening” of Mexico.

  93. @syonredux
    Sometimes you win the genetic lottery...

    Lynda Carter with her sister and her Mestiza mother:


    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/51/32/59/513259ec22198bd2b1a8d17e6e53c4be.jpg

    https://bodyheightweight.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/lynda-carter-family-mother-Juana-Cordova-Carter.jpg

    Clearly, Lynda is expressing more of the European side of her ancestry....


    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8pkozpNA1OU/UG9DGyB_N9I/AAAAAAAAJzk/yj4A1Uk_yjI/s1600/lynda_carter_wonder_cleavage_wbxiNRy.jpg

    Sometimes you win the genetic lottery…

    The combination of raven hair and bronze skin tones with light blue or green eyes seems to be an especially “lucky” combination that all groups seem to find exotically attractive.

    Of course, in Linda Carter’s case it also didn’t hurt to be tall, athletic and perfectly curvy at the same time. Wonder woman, indeed.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Lynda Carter doesn’t have anything on half the white girls in the Legends Football League.
  94. @ScarletNumber
    In New Jersey, the further northwest you get, the fewer Hispanics of any stripe you find. Even in jobs traditionally staffed by them. When I go to a McDonald's in Sussex or Warren Counties, they are staff by pleasant white people. It's like walking into a Chick-Fil-A.

    In New Jersey, the further northwest you get, the fewer Hispanics of any stripe you find. Even in jobs traditionally staffed by them.

    In LA the fast food industry is so universally staffed by Mayan looking Hispanics that you can’t help but mentally associate the two.

    It was frankly jarring when I was in Utah awhile back and had tall, blonde model-looking teenage girls taking my burger order at McDonalds and Carl’s Jr.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    Funny, I went to an IN-n-Out in LA about 15 years ago (my first time in LA, so it was my host's insistence), and it was staffed by extremely tall white men and a few tall blacks.

    I mentioned that it looked like a college basketball team was working behind the counter. But my host was more realistic: they were all wanna be models/actors trying to make money while pursuing their dream in Pedowood (male models are universally taller than average).

    So when I think of LA fast food, that image of a bunch tall white dudes sticks.

    , @ScarletNumber

    It was frankly jarring when I was in Utah awhile back and had tall, blonde model-looking teenage girls taking my burger order at McDonalds and Carl’s Jr.
     
    That sounds awesome. They were probably Mormon too, so if you played your cards right you could have had more than one.
  95. @Hypnotoad666

    In New Jersey, the further northwest you get, the fewer Hispanics of any stripe you find. Even in jobs traditionally staffed by them.
     
    In LA the fast food industry is so universally staffed by Mayan looking Hispanics that you can't help but mentally associate the two.

    It was frankly jarring when I was in Utah awhile back and had tall, blonde model-looking teenage girls taking my burger order at McDonalds and Carl's Jr.

    Funny, I went to an IN-n-Out in LA about 15 years ago (my first time in LA, so it was my host’s insistence), and it was staffed by extremely tall white men and a few tall blacks.

    I mentioned that it looked like a college basketball team was working behind the counter. But my host was more realistic: they were all wanna be models/actors trying to make money while pursuing their dream in Pedowood (male models are universally taller than average).

    So when I think of LA fast food, that image of a bunch tall white dudes sticks.

  96. @syonredux
    Sometimes you win the genetic lottery...

    Lynda Carter with her sister and her Mestiza mother:


    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/51/32/59/513259ec22198bd2b1a8d17e6e53c4be.jpg

    https://bodyheightweight.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/lynda-carter-family-mother-Juana-Cordova-Carter.jpg

    Clearly, Lynda is expressing more of the European side of her ancestry....


    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8pkozpNA1OU/UG9DGyB_N9I/AAAAAAAAJzk/yj4A1Uk_yjI/s1600/lynda_carter_wonder_cleavage_wbxiNRy.jpg

    YES! About time a smutty picture was posted of Ms. Carter, the original Wonder of the small screen.

    Here a natural beauty was found.
    There on the small screen did aphrodite bless the viewers with her bounteous pulchritude.

    Amazing. Simply and absolutely amazing.

    • Agree: Lot
  97. @Old Palo Altan
    Very OT; worse, I am going to toot my own horn.

    On the 29th of December last I wrote the following somewhere here at Unz:

    "I think it likely that the “Duchess of Sussex” will be out of the royal family by this time next year. Her latest idea, to profit financially from her marriage to the half-brother of a future king by selling lines of clothing and who knows what else, will prove the final straw for everyone from the Queen on down.

    Will Harry sacrifice all, and head into oblivion with her? I certainly hope so."

    Both my prediction and my hope have been fulfilled, and not a year, but barely three weeks later.

    I just knew that 2020 was going to be a good year.

    Two down, and Bergoglio to go.

    “Her latest idea, to profit financially from her marriage to the half-brother of a future king by selling lines of clothing and who knows what else, will prove the final straw for everyone from the Queen on down.”

    Realistically speaking, she’s not on the same level as Lynda Carter (or any nine or tens). And also, apparently he has turned down his share of the royal fortune, estimated somewhere in the neighborhood of ca. $90-100 billion. You’d really have to be naive to believe that she can make that sum up in a clothing line. $90 billion? Come on. What else can she sell that could even get half that amount? Unless you’re suggesting she will do the Paris Hilton Kim Kardashian tape type of thing? Is that what this is? Cause there’s really nothing else she can offer that would come close to earning $90 billion.

  98. @BB753
    Rita Hayworth wasn't half-Mexican, she was half-Spanish from a middle - class background from Seville.
    Her paternal uncle was the famous writer/translator Rafael Cansinos Assens.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Cansinos-Ass%C3%A9ns

    Hayworth’s maternal uncle, Vinton Hayworth, was married to Ginger Rogers’ maternal aunt, Jean Owens.

  99. @Lot
    The biggest US Indian Tribe are the Navajo, who are fairly recent migrants from the north to the desert SW.

    They look like a hybrid of NE Asians or Eskimos with regular “redskin” American Indians.

    http://assets.azpreps365.com/teams/photos/original/000/095/193/2017%20TCHS%20Varsity-State%20Volleyball.jpg

    https://westernnews.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2018/07/03/2009_Family_Travels_316_t715.jpg?529764a1de2bdd0f74a9fb4f856b01a9d617b3e9

    On another topic, NY Times prints a liberal immigration restriction article, and the comments are very positive, even the “NY Picks.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/16/opinion/immigration-democrats.html

    Tuba City is in the Navajo Nation but is adjacent to the Hopi Reservation (which is completely surrounded by Navajo lands). So those could be kids with Hopi ancestry as well–heck, could be Apache, Anasazi, Pueblo, …thrown into it as well.

  100. Anon[174] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    I've read accounts by early US explorers that Indians on the coasts were tall, but ones in the interior were stunted. A diet of ocean fish with iodine appears to be the difference.

    I’ve read accounts by early US explorers that Indians on the coasts were tall, but ones in the interior were stunted. A diet of ocean fish with iodine appears to be the difference.

    Or the explorers were short. But yeah, Charles Mann wrote about that in his books. Besides being taller, Indians were healthier, their clothing was more suited to the environment, their weapons had greater range, more accuracy, and faster repeatability, their seagoing craft in coastal waters worked better than the Europeans, and in general they were much better off than the Europeans. We forget how far Europeans had to go before they became us.

    Disease was the great equalizer.

    OT

    The guy Steve is arguing with on Twitter:

    Wow, would this guy annoy me if I were a college student.

    • Replies: @anon
    The guy Steve is arguing with on Twitter:

    That's exactly what I would expect from a guy on "Boasnetwork". (((Franz Boas))) did a huge amount of damage to the actual science of anthropology. Too bad it continues to this very day. I'm sure Fuentes can tell us all about the impact of the word "Regatta" on IQ testing, too.
  101. @Lot
    Your link shows the tallest women are in Asturias in the far north and the tallest men in Madrid in the middle of the north.

    Using only the most recent cohort, the tallest men of the big regions is Castilla y Leon in the north and shortest is Andalucia, 4cm shorter.

    Further, there’s no reason to think Germanic settlement patterns after the fall of the Western Empire affected Spanish height, because there were just too few of them. I recall one estimate that the visigoths were only 6% of the Spanish population at the time of the Moorish invasion.

    Rather Spain, just like most every country in the temperate zone with a wide north-south range, has a height gradient, and it is ancient in origin.

    My friend from Asturias is 6’3”. I don’t think the moors got there. But Franco’s sidekicks managed to beat the local miners.

    Very euro. Cider, beef and seafood. Kinda like Normandy, even though that’s far away.

  102. Slowpoke Rodriguez is slightly taller than his more famous, more athletic cousin:

    “Americans. Let us be offended for you.”

    Speedy had another cousin or posse member who was fat, and much taller. Anyone know his name? Or have a picture?

  103. @Charlotte
    There is an actual Blackfeet Tribe https://blackfeetnation.com/. It is not the same as the Blackfoot.

    Singular and plural. As in, I am Blackfeet, we are Blackfeet. Similar, but not equivalent to, I am American, we are American.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Yes, but are you a REAL American, like Hulk Hogan?

    An old saying among the Indians. The whitefeet tribe always tell the truth and the blackfeet tribe always lies. So one day you meet an Indian and ask him "Hey, are you a truthful whitefoot, or a lying blackfoot?" He replies, "I'm a truthful whitefoot." But he's wearing moccasins. Since you can't see his feet, which one is he?

  104. @Hail
    Good work, Old Palo Altan.

    Your original post was in reply to this astute observation from Stephen Dodge:

    Stephen Dodge says:
    December 29, 2019 at 7:54 am GMT • 100 Words

    This is also why Britons get upset when members of the royal family choose their spouses for reasons that are not in line with what is best for the country. It is fine when one prince in line for the throne marries a silly woman because she is hot but not really all that gifted with other virtues, it is not so good when that goes on for a few generations.
     
    In reply to your original prediction, Kolya Krassotkin breezily counter-predicted:

    Kolya Krassotkin says:
    December 29, 2019 at 7:30 pm GMT • 100 Words
    @Old Palo Altan

    Ain’t going to happen. Uncle Andy with L’Affaire Epstein has already given the monarchy a good shaking, and if Liz-2 tries to send the Duchess of Sussex into exile, Markle will predictably yell “Rayciss!” and have all those new-fangled Londoners rioting in the streets.
     
    Old Palo Altan: 1.
    Kolya Krassotkin: 0.

    ___________

    Harry (formerly Prince Harry, then Duke of Sussex; now just Harry) and related persons' life timeline so far:

    - Sept. 1984: Prince Harry is born to Charles and Diana (following June 1982 birth of Prince William);
    - early to mid 1990s: Charles and Diana's marriage (m.1981) breaks down; separated by 1992; divorce finalized in Aug. 1996;
    - Aug. 1997: Harry's mother Diana dies in a car incident;
    - 2003: Pro-interracial-romance UK film Love Actually is released (see also the case of Decca Aitkenhead, London journalist, #106 and #107); Prince William, near his 21st birthday, announces his plans to master Swahili and work in Africa due to his "love" for Africa; Harry at this time (ages 18 and 19) is still under the political radar;
    - Jan. 2005: Harry makes headlines after he is photographed in 'Nazi' uniform at a friend's birthday dress-up theme party; international media humiliates him;
    - May 8, 2005 (V-E Day, 60th): Harry enters Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst, beginning ten-year term in UK military;
    - April 2011: Prince William, having abandoned his youthful but public plan to move semi-permanently to Black Africa, marries Catherine Middleton [b.1982], to whom he had been linked romantically since the mid-2000s (by 2018, two sons and a daughter born);
    - 2012 and 2013: Prince Harry serves five months in Afghanistan, during which time he "kill[s] insurgents" (his words) from the helm of the video-game-like (also his words) weapons system of an Apache helicopter;
    - June 2015: Harry ends army service; by this time he has had several known white girlfriends but each time broken up amicably;
    - July 2016: Harry is set up on a blind date with mulatta actress Meghan Markle [b. Aug. 1981; divorced, ex-husband a Jewish film producer; Markle is of Hollywood origin both in childhood and adulthood; by ancestry, 35%+? Subsaharan]; the relationship was public knowledge by late 2016; engagement announced in Nov. 2017;
    - 2016: Harry begins saying he
    - May 2018: Harry–Markle Wedding;
    - May 6, 2019: Birth of son, Archie;
    - 2019: Meghan Markle begins causing problems in royal family, complains of racism, pressures Harry to effectively abdicate and leave England; the abdication seems now finalized as of Jan. 2020. Harry (and "Archie") are out. (Harry's world falls apart by about the "Start of serious dating [late 2016] + 3 years" mark.)

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_utM7kXsAARzLi.jpg

    Ah, but my dear Hail, the game has only begun. Unless young Harry resorts to decisively dealing with his obstreperous spouse as did his ancestor Harry-8, there remain countless rounds yet to play, and although she may be a shrew, dispatching her would be bad optics.

    • Replies: @Flip
    Actually his ancestor was Henry VII and he is descended from a sister of Henry VIII.
  105. @Anonymous
    OT
    https://www.cosmopolitan.com/lifestyle/a30284631/amish-sexual-abuse-incest-me-too/

    "The Amish Keep to Themselves. And They’re Hiding a Horrifying Secret

    A year of reporting by Cosmo and Type Investigations reveals a culture of incest, rape, and abuse."

    Now will Cosmo ever have the balls to investigate the sexual abuse that’s an open seceret among the Hassidim?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    I would assume Cosmo writers do not have testicles, but what do I know?

    I don't read it, and neither does anyone else who does.
  106. @ScarletNumber

    These days there are rewards for identifying as Latino, but I’m sure some people who are 1/4th or 1/8th don’t bother.
     
    One of my students is so obviously German that she could be pictured on a Hitler Youth poster. However, in our records she is listed as Hispanic. One day I asked her about this. She said that her mother was born in Argentina. So now I refer to her as the Nazi.

    On our field trip to the Jewish Heritage museum their cafeteria was closed, so we had the students pack their lunches. She decided to bring a ham-and-cheese sandwich on a bagel.

    Racist much?

    Don’t let your student hear you calling her the Nazi behind her back, or she’ll sue your butt, which you richly deserve.

  107. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "San Diego’s Ted Williams, probably the best baseball hitter of all time, was half-Mexican."

    Uh, someone named Babe Ruth might be considered to have that title. In his 1969 autobiography, Williams makes mention that his mother was half-Mexican, which would mean that he was about 1/4 Mexican.

    Uh, someone named Babe Ruth might be considered to have that title.

    Indeed, but Williams is a worthy claimant to the crown, and missed several seasons while he was flying fighters for Uncle Sam, both in WWII, and then again in Korea.

    Despite that, Ted Williams’s career on-base percentage of .4817 is the highest ever, with Babe Ruth in 2nd place with .4739, but Ruth’s Yankees won 4 World Series and 7 pennants, while the Red Sox with Williams played only in the ’46 series, won by the Cardinals.

    Also in the top 20 career OBP are some familiar names:

    5. Gehrig (.4474)
    6. Bonds (.4443)
    8. Hornsby (.4337)
    9. Cobb (.4330)
    10. Foxx (.4283)
    18. Mantle (.4205)

    Willie Mays with a career OBP of .384 is not in the top 100.

    Well, don’t quote me on this, but my impression is that Mexicans have rather small hands and feet. The reports I’ve seen just now indicate that there have been just 4 Mexican players in the NBA.

    In major league baseball, while there are numerous players from Latin America, few are from Mexico:

    This year, 251 players out of a pool of 882 players were born outside the 50 U.S. states, or nearly 29 percent. Of those, 220, or nearly 88 percent, of those born outside the 50 U.S. states, are from Latin America.

    The Dominican Republic leads the way with 102 players, followed by Venezuela with 68, Puerto Rico, a U.S. territory, with 18, and Cuba with 17.

    Just eight major-league players this year are from Mexico.

    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/immigration/2019/03/28/why-so-few-major-league-baseball-players-mexico-arizona-diamondbacks/3278995002/

    Psst. One theory is that many young Mexicans are too busy upholding the myth of Hispanic crime to have much time for sports.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "Indeed, but Williams is a worthy claimant to the crown,"

    Also, Hank Aaron, Barry Bonds, lots of names. When someone hits a HR, one of the three "true" outcomes according to Sabermetricians, whom should one recall? In other words, which single individual in the 20th century made the HR his signature outcome? Babe Ruth. During the '20's, there were some years that Ruth's total HR's for a season exceeded the total number of HR's hit by individual AL/NL teams. At one point it was for every 8 or 10 HR's hit in a single year, one of them was hit by Babe Ruth. Williams certainly can't claim that feat.


    "and missed several seasons while he was flying fighters for Uncle Sam, both in WWII, and then again in Korea."

    Should've, could've, but didn't. If ifs were a fifth, we'd have Christmas time every day. Ruth missed about four full seasons because he was a P. If he had played every day from 1915-1918, his career HR total would be much higher.

    "Ted Williams’s career on-base percentage of .4817 is the highest ever,"

    So what? OBP was never a thing during Williams career, all he cared about was winning the batting title. Funny you don't mention that Williams's batting average of .344 is two points higher than Ruth's .342. But, Ruth was a total hitter, who focused not just on hitting the ball, but on actually helping his team win WS.

    "Ruth’s Yankees won 4 World Series and 7 pennants, while the Red Sox with Williams played only in the ’46 series, won by the Cardinals."

    Exactly. And ultimately that's what counts the most. "Exceptional claims demand exceptional evidence." In other words, if you're going to state that Williams is the greatest hitter of the 20th century, then we have to look at the logical conclusion: How'd he do in the post season? He hit .205 in 7 games, largely because he refused to help his team by hitting the ball to the opposite field. STL manager employed the same shift vs him that was made popular by manager Lou Boudreau of CLE. Whereas Williams's contemporary, Stan Musial, also a great hitter, played in 4 WS and won 3 championships. And Stan didn't have a problem hitting the ball to all fields.

    Point being: For both Ruth's and Williams' careers, and for most of the 20th century, the traditional metrics to judge a hitter were measured by HR, BA, and RBI. And which player of the two has the most HRs and RBIs for his career? Babe Ruth.

    Williams didn't really change the game of MLB much during his career, except that managers began to employ a shift against straight pull hitters who refused to help their teams win games. Ruth, on the other hand, directly impacted the game by changing the entire way it had been played. Before Ruth, MLB was in the Dead Ball era, where teams scratched for a single run at a time. By hitting more HR's than anyone else before him, Babe Ruth directly impacted MLB and changed the way it was being played. Even today, two of the three "True" outcomes (HR, W, K), can be directly traced to Babe Ruth and no one else. In the early '20's, Ruth set a single season record for intentional walks and total walks in a single season that stood until Bonds broke it in the early 2000's.

    2020 marks the century mark of Babe Ruth's first season in NY. He hit 54 HR's nearly twice the highest number in a single season. That's having a direct impact on the MLB immediately.

    In this sense, MLB is still playing Babe Ruth's game. The Splendid Splinter was just a kid compared to the Sultan of Swat as far as totally dominating the game and being bigger than MLB itself. In his day, Williams had Joe DiMaggio to contend with for top honors as MLB's biggest superstar. And as he could hit to all fields with equal power, DiMaggio played in 10 WS and had 9 championships.

    , @anon
    Speaking of Ted Williams:

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/heirs-battle-with-alcor-life-extension-over-dads-frozen-head-keeps-getting-weirder
  108. @Clyde
    Good prediction by you on Duchess of Sussex...who is going, going, gone. Gone soon and divorced soon. I thought she might be out but not this soon. The Royal Family has been finessing her out of the picture, and more so since you posted. What a fraud and awful representative for America. She thought she was going to be able to cash in (monetize) her Royal status as Duchess of Sussex. What a kook and a very woke one, going by her annoying pronouncements.

    This reminds me of Colin Kapernick who married some chick who was not worthy that radicalized him and took him nowhere. Bad choice but it is too late now.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    Or Paul Krugman, for that matter.

    https://www.walikali.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Robin-Wells-2.jpg

  109. @Hypnotoad666
    Mexican whites came up with a great idea at the end of the Mexican Revolution - just declare that henceforth everyone in Mexico is a member of the same Mestizo race.

    Only one race = no racism. Problem solved.

    Now they can dominate all the elites institutions without the Mexican version of the New York Times nagging them about their "white privilege."

    And for bonus points, they can go to the U.S. and become affirmative action recipients who get to cut in line ahead of their co-ethnics who are assigned to the disfavored "White American Citizen" tribe. (Those Suckers!).

    Si, verdad. This reminds me of some DNA show I saw years ago, celebrities taking DNA tests, and there were a few white Mexicans, like Christina Aguilera (forgot who else) who were shocked that their ancestry was mostly European. They seemed to expect to be descendants of Aztec Royalty.

    • Replies: @jimla
    That was moronic of her, because her mother was of Irish, and German ancestry. Only his father was Ecuadorian, mixed as most Ecuadorians. So of course she would be mostly European.
    , @Corn
    Maybe you’re thinking of the chronically unfunny George Lopez’s talk show on TBS. Leaving aside why is it supposed to be entertaining to do DNA tests on national tv, it made one wonder where all this “white privilege” is.

    Lopez gave DNA tests to Jessica Alba and Eva Longoria. IIRC when they found out most of their genes were white Alba seemed bummed; Longoria seemed positively horrified.
    , @anon
    Many Latinos from South America are shocked to discover they have significant indigenous ancestry.

    My wife is from Chile. She appears 100% white, as do her siblings. When she got her 23andme results she was adamant that the results were false , she refused to accept the results which indicated she was 18% Native American. When I told her mother and brothers about the results, they also mocked the tests, stating it was not possible for them to be part indio. The Mother stated, it must come from her father, could not be from her side of the family. Yet when her mother did the ancestry test it indicated she was 30% Native American.

    The results certainly surprised me , As her mother does not have traits of the indigenous people, she has light brown curly hair, freckles and is tall with large breasts like my wife. Looks more like like Linda Carter, but I suppose Linda carter could be 20% Native American, since her mother is Mexican.
  110. @Travis
    exactly.

    The concept of La Raza can be traced to the ideas and writings of Jose Vasconcelos, the Mexican theorist who developed the theory of la Raza cosmica (the cosmic or super race). Vasconelos developed a systematic theory which argued that climatic and geographic conditions and mixture of Spanish and Indian races created a superior race.

    In other words, La Raza is the Master Race, but rather than based on notions of racial purity, La Raza’s inherent, biological superiority is based on its hybridity, on the mixing in Latin America of , “the black, the Indian, the Mongol, and the white.” La Raza tries to whitewash this by writing that “this is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.” Not really; what it really means is that Hispanics, and specifically Mestizos, are superior to those of us unfortunate enough not to be part La Raza.

    This sounds really similar to the pap that Coudenhove-Kalergi was peddling with regard to the future inhabitants of the European continent.

  111. @Svevlad
    Diet gotta play an effect, just how it makes Brits ugly. I mean they're grain brained to the max. Switch 'em to a more high-protein diet and their height and athletic performance will improve too

    Diet gotta play an effect, just how it makes Brits ugly.

    But, then, I notice your writing also suggests you my think complete sentences are “faggy.”

    • Thanks: Lot
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Are 3 and 4 supposed to be famous?
    , @SteveRogers42
    Why is 4?
  112. @Kolya Krassotkin
    Ah, but my dear Hail, the game has only begun. Unless young Harry resorts to decisively dealing with his obstreperous spouse as did his ancestor Harry-8, there remain countless rounds yet to play, and although she may be a shrew, dispatching her would be bad optics.

    Actually his ancestor was Henry VII and he is descended from a sister of Henry VIII.

    • Replies: @Kolya Krassotkin
    Henry VIII is a collateral ancestor, not a direct one, as you noted. The direct line of Harry's ancestry comes down from Henry VII through Mary Stuart and her heirs.

    I had not wished to belabor that minor point, but thank you.

  113. @Old Palo Altan
    Very OT; worse, I am going to toot my own horn.

    On the 29th of December last I wrote the following somewhere here at Unz:

    "I think it likely that the “Duchess of Sussex” will be out of the royal family by this time next year. Her latest idea, to profit financially from her marriage to the half-brother of a future king by selling lines of clothing and who knows what else, will prove the final straw for everyone from the Queen on down.

    Will Harry sacrifice all, and head into oblivion with her? I certainly hope so."

    Both my prediction and my hope have been fulfilled, and not a year, but barely three weeks later.

    I just knew that 2020 was going to be a good year.

    Two down, and Bergoglio to go.

    “Half brother.” I dunno, he does look a lot like the young Prince Philip.

  114. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hypnotoad666
    Mexican whites came up with a great idea at the end of the Mexican Revolution - just declare that henceforth everyone in Mexico is a member of the same Mestizo race.

    Only one race = no racism. Problem solved.

    Now they can dominate all the elites institutions without the Mexican version of the New York Times nagging them about their "white privilege."

    And for bonus points, they can go to the U.S. and become affirmative action recipients who get to cut in line ahead of their co-ethnics who are assigned to the disfavored "White American Citizen" tribe. (Those Suckers!).

    By official decree all Mexicans are Mestizos.

    A Mestizo is, of course, different than a mestizo.

    Technically anyone who is between one and ninety-nine percent mesoamerican and white mixed is a mestizo, but Mexico is mostly ruled by people who are all or mostly all white, who constitute roughly ten percent of the population, and about twenty or more percent of Mexicans are for all practical purposes pure indios. So about sixty to seventy percent of Mexicans are functionally mestizos of various admixture, although some are pardos, triracial, with African admixture.

    Generally one’s status in Mexico depends on one’s race, although Mexicans consider that as class and not race. Whites are at the top, indios generally at the bottom, and mestizos tend to be at about where they fall in the racial spectrum. Whites are almost always at the top, but occasionally indios or high indio mestizos do very well and are accorded status. Mexicans look down at non-Mexican mesos and mestizo/pardo types. They positively detest Puerto Ricans and Cubans, for the most part.

  115. @Lot
    “ 35%+? Subsaharan”

    She looks a lot less than that, 0% with the right hair and makeup in many recent photos, maybe 20-25% with untreated hair and a tan in childhood photos (like a lighter Puerto Rican girl).

    Looking at her mother though, she seems very typical of Heritage Blacks in her hair, color and facial features, other than her eyes being pleasantly shaped and a nice clear shade of pure brown rather than blackish.

    Reference pics:

    Pure West African lady from Nigeria

    https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2015/03/26/20/Nigeria.jpg

    MM and her ~70% SSA mother:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2018/05/15/TELEMMGLPICT000162650986_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqH8g0IxmZhOOFzRvM6k8ERvr7sARQy7EgBjwPUzvqL_M.jpeg?imwidth=450

    In bright light they look paler:

    http://img4.thelist.com/img/uploads/2018/05/meghan-markle-mother-doria-ragland-780x438_rev1.jpg

    With parents in childhood

    http://dtlon6z3v1kfl.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/09145730/NINTCHDBPICT0004203405967.jpg

    My friend, never forget 1 drop = 100%

  116. @Dtbb
    Every account by Spanish explorers remarks how tall and well put together the Indians were.

    Yes and no. It’s more useful to speak of the actual heights than to speak of whether anyone was “tall” or “short.” (I myself am quite unimpressive by Dutch standards, but in Viet Nam or Honduras I am a regular Paul Bunyan – so, am I tall or short?)

    In the seventeenth century, the average height of males* (globally) was something in the range of 5’6″ to 5’8″ – the tallest Aztec (to pick but one example) was about 5’6″ according to primary sources like Cortes’ accounts.

    The conquistadors’ accounts quite routinely indicate the indios were short, stocky sorts relative to Europeans. Perhaps the northern Amerindians encountered by the French and the English in what would become Canada and most of the U.S.A. were taller (it’s common knowledge the average height human populations more often than not increases with latitude, all else being equal, until, at extremes near the poles it decreases again since short, chunky people better conserve heat…).

    The dramatic differences today between Europeans and indios and mestizos is that we Europeans just kept on inventing and discovering things to become more healthy and prosperous, whereas the latter groups progressing from cannibalism to hanging around at the Home Depot, sleeping in bath-tubs, and drunken driving…which, I suppose, is some kind of progress, but it hasn’t done much for their height.

    *Check out the ruins and artifacts in places like Knossos some time: the thrones of the mighty kings look like furniture for a small children’s classroom. Humans have absolutely exploded in size in just a few millennia, mostly due to improved health (including from diet) and selective breeding.

  117. @Lot
    Your link shows the tallest women are in Asturias in the far north and the tallest men in Madrid in the middle of the north.

    Using only the most recent cohort, the tallest men of the big regions is Castilla y Leon in the north and shortest is Andalucia, 4cm shorter.

    Further, there’s no reason to think Germanic settlement patterns after the fall of the Western Empire affected Spanish height, because there were just too few of them. I recall one estimate that the visigoths were only 6% of the Spanish population at the time of the Moorish invasion.

    Rather Spain, just like most every country in the temperate zone with a wide north-south range, has a height gradient, and it is ancient in origin.

    No, the link says that from 1950-1980 Andalucia and Extremadura were tied with Asturias for height, despite much lower life expectancy in the south. Of course Madrid is the tallest for men as cities tend to have taller people than rural areas; when accounting for development index the southern regions were the tallest and that’s also reflected by the fact that they grew the fastest of all regions, indicating higher genetic height potential. The point is not which province is tallest but which provinces were tallest and growing fastest.

    Further, there’s no reason to think Germanic settlement patterns after the fall of the Western Empire affected Spanish height, because there were just too few of them. I recall one estimate that the visigoths were only 6% of the Spanish population at the time of the Moorish invasion.

    If I had a dime for ever time some commenter on an alt-right website told me they “recalled” a source they couldn’t find, when in fact they actually imagined it in a schizophrenic stupor, I would be rich. The visigoths were one Germanic tribe of many who settled in southern Spain, along with the Iranian Alans, and your figure wouldn’t include hybrids.

    Rather Spain, just like most every country in the temperate zone with a wide north-south range, has a height gradient, and it is ancient in origin.

    Which is of course impossible; as Spain’s population is anything but ancient, with no time for natural selection to act on multiple population replacements that came from every direction, beginning with the extermination of the Cheddar Man-like inhabitants ca. 4500 years ago, who are the only group that could possibly have adapted to Spain’s climate.

    Lots of regions aren’t populated by people who are autocthonous to the area. People in southeastern Europe for example are a mixture of Balto-Slavs and pre-Slavic people who inhabited that region, and are taller than their more northerly neighbors, as well as the people who peeviously lived in the region. In Europe the single strongest correlate of male standing height appears to be the ratio of Y-DNA haplogroup I2. Not latitude.

    Other factors can come to violate the “gradient” like nutritional quality — North vs South Korea being one example.

  118. @Anon
    I've read accounts by early US explorers that Indians on the coasts were tall, but ones in the interior were stunted. A diet of ocean fish with iodine appears to be the difference.

    It’s the other way around. The Plains Indians were the tallest group, coastal Indians were shorter.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2001/05/010529071125.htm

    Plains Indians may have carried the same genes for height that introgressed in to Europeans via the Ancient North Eurasians.

  119. @Steve Sailer
    Kenyan runners tend to be descended from horseless cowboys running after lost stray calves.

    Right; no horses in America for millennia until the Europeans reintroduced them – the environmentalist, nature-boy Indians who tear ip at garbage on the roadside hunted all the horses in America to extinction – to eat them!

    So why didn’t these fools become word class runners by chasing bison across Nebraska, or something? Because no property. No one was chasing “his” bison, needed for dairy, breeding, or whatever. He was only ever chasing “a” bison, from the herd at hand, and the slowest one would do…..

  120. @CrunchyButRealistCon
    As photo-shopped as that son of Harry & Megan looks to be, it seriously would not surprise me is Harry was cucked by Megan. She comes off as a 'no holds barred' conniver. Willing to do anything that her lizard brain suggests in a dark moment.

    In other words, the average Western woman.

  121. @Kolya Krassotkin
    Now will Cosmo ever have the balls to investigate the sexual abuse that's an open seceret among the Hassidim?

    I would assume Cosmo writers do not have testicles, but what do I know?

    I don’t read it, and neither does anyone else who does.

  122. @Hypnotoad666

    In New Jersey, the further northwest you get, the fewer Hispanics of any stripe you find. Even in jobs traditionally staffed by them.
     
    In LA the fast food industry is so universally staffed by Mayan looking Hispanics that you can't help but mentally associate the two.

    It was frankly jarring when I was in Utah awhile back and had tall, blonde model-looking teenage girls taking my burger order at McDonalds and Carl's Jr.

    It was frankly jarring when I was in Utah awhile back and had tall, blonde model-looking teenage girls taking my burger order at McDonalds and Carl’s Jr.

    That sounds awesome. They were probably Mormon too, so if you played your cards right you could have had more than one.

    • LOL: Jim Don Bob
  123. @Steve Sailer
    Kenyan runners tend to be descended from horseless cowboys running after lost stray calves.

    Kenyan runners tend to be descended from horseless cowboys running after lost stray calves.

    Tarahumara are different. Some of them find marathons boring, because they are too short.

    https://www.runnersworld.com/runners-stories/a20954821/born-to-run-secrets-of-the-tarahumara/

  124. @YetAnotherAnon
    Why aren't Bolivians and Peruvians up there with the Kenyans in long distance running?

    Has that been bred out of them with 400 years of Spanish-enforced selection for gold and tin mining slaves?

    Or would they be up there if they were allowed to chew coca leaves?

    Well, an Indio did just win the Tour de France and a few years earlier another Indio came in second. So there’s that. Running is a little bit different because it gives a larger advantage to Black Africans that never left the ancestral human homeland and were thus never compromised by the Ice Age with shorter, stouter limbs that carry more fat and negatively effect running efficiency. Humans evolved to run, but non-Black humans had to balance running ability with keeping warm in ice age. Returning back to hot climates, even for thousands of years, doesn’t automatically reverse that because evolution is clumsy and works with what it has. That’s why Amerindians from hot jungles are still stuck with cold-weather mitochondrial DNA types and why SE Asians don’t have the long, lean limbs of Africans.

    If only plains Indians could only put down the bottle (or Slurpee) and/or existed in larger numbers I believe we’d see more Jim Thorpes. BTW, Thorpe’s distance running times when considered in the context of their time, and Thorpe’s large size and success in football, are pretty amazing. I doubt any modern NFL player would come close.

    • Thanks: YetAnotherAnon
  125. anon[391] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon

    I’ve read accounts by early US explorers that Indians on the coasts were tall, but ones in the interior were stunted. A diet of ocean fish with iodine appears to be the difference.
     
    Or the explorers were short. But yeah, Charles Mann wrote about that in his books. Besides being taller, Indians were healthier, their clothing was more suited to the environment, their weapons had greater range, more accuracy, and faster repeatability, their seagoing craft in coastal waters worked better than the Europeans, and in general they were much better off than the Europeans. We forget how far Europeans had to go before they became us.

    Disease was the great equalizer.

    OT

    The guy Steve is arguing with on Twitter:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmZX9dKMzqI

    Wow, would this guy annoy me if I were a college student.

    The guy Steve is arguing with on Twitter:

    That’s exactly what I would expect from a guy on “Boasnetwork”. (((Franz Boas))) did a huge amount of damage to the actual science of anthropology. Too bad it continues to this very day. I’m sure Fuentes can tell us all about the impact of the word “Regatta” on IQ testing, too.

    • Thanks: Liza
  126. @Lot
    “ 35%+? Subsaharan”

    She looks a lot less than that, 0% with the right hair and makeup in many recent photos, maybe 20-25% with untreated hair and a tan in childhood photos (like a lighter Puerto Rican girl).

    Looking at her mother though, she seems very typical of Heritage Blacks in her hair, color and facial features, other than her eyes being pleasantly shaped and a nice clear shade of pure brown rather than blackish.

    Reference pics:

    Pure West African lady from Nigeria

    https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2015/03/26/20/Nigeria.jpg

    MM and her ~70% SSA mother:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2018/05/15/TELEMMGLPICT000162650986_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqH8g0IxmZhOOFzRvM6k8ERvr7sARQy7EgBjwPUzvqL_M.jpeg?imwidth=450

    In bright light they look paler:

    http://img4.thelist.com/img/uploads/2018/05/meghan-markle-mother-doria-ragland-780x438_rev1.jpg

    With parents in childhood

    http://dtlon6z3v1kfl.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/09145730/NINTCHDBPICT0004203405967.jpg

    Castizos /Moriscos usually look better than mestizos/mulattos.

    We really need to adopt some of that clever Spanish taxonomy. The whole one-drop rule or Mexico’s “we’re all Mestizos” line just doesn’t cut it. Especially as HBD awareness grows.

  127. @BB753
    Rita Hayworth wasn't half-Mexican, she was half-Spanish from a middle - class background from Seville.
    Her paternal uncle was the famous writer/translator Rafael Cansinos Assens.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafael_Cansinos-Ass%C3%A9ns

    I know she wasn’t half Mexican. Her father was a Spanish immigrant, her mother Irish American.

  128. @Neil Templeton
    Singular and plural. As in, I am Blackfeet, we are Blackfeet. Similar, but not equivalent to, I am American, we are American.

    Yes, but are you a REAL American, like Hulk Hogan?

    An old saying among the Indians. The whitefeet tribe always tell the truth and the blackfeet tribe always lies. So one day you meet an Indian and ask him “Hey, are you a truthful whitefoot, or a lying blackfoot?” He replies, “I’m a truthful whitefoot.” But he’s wearing moccasins. Since you can’t see his feet, which one is he?

  129. @Michelle
    I sensed that right away. But even Chris Evert seemed a bit manly in the face to me.

    Chris Evert is very much straight, although she isn’t an Indian.

  130. @Realist

    People in most of America never saw a Mexican in real life, only those on TV and in the movies who appeared to be Spaniards. The peasant indigenous people were unknown here.
     
    Those were the days. Bring back the Cisco Kid...especially Pancho.

    Was Cisco Kid a friend of yours?

    • Replies: @Realist
    Yes, he drink whiskey, Poncho drink the wine. We met down on the fort of Rio Grande.
  131. @Sparkon

    Uh, someone named Babe Ruth might be considered to have that title.
     
    Indeed, but Williams is a worthy claimant to the crown, and missed several seasons while he was flying fighters for Uncle Sam, both in WWII, and then again in Korea.

    Despite that, Ted Williams's career on-base percentage of .4817 is the highest ever, with Babe Ruth in 2nd place with .4739, but Ruth's Yankees won 4 World Series and 7 pennants, while the Red Sox with Williams played only in the '46 series, won by the Cardinals.

    Also in the top 20 career OBP are some familiar names:

    5. Gehrig (.4474)
    6. Bonds (.4443)
    8. Hornsby (.4337)
    9. Cobb (.4330)
    10. Foxx (.4283)
    18. Mantle (.4205)

    Willie Mays with a career OBP of .384 is not in the top 100.

    Well, don't quote me on this, but my impression is that Mexicans have rather small hands and feet. The reports I've seen just now indicate that there have been just 4 Mexican players in the NBA.

    In major league baseball, while there are numerous players from Latin America, few are from Mexico:

    This year, 251 players out of a pool of 882 players were born outside the 50 U.S. states, or nearly 29 percent. Of those, 220, or nearly 88 percent, of those born outside the 50 U.S. states, are from Latin America.

    The Dominican Republic leads the way with 102 players, followed by Venezuela with 68, Puerto Rico, a U.S. territory, with 18, and Cuba with 17.

    Just eight major-league players this year are from Mexico.
     
    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/immigration/2019/03/28/why-so-few-major-league-baseball-players-mexico-arizona-diamondbacks/3278995002/

    Psst. One theory is that many young Mexicans are too busy upholding the myth of Hispanic crime to have much time for sports.

    “Indeed, but Williams is a worthy claimant to the crown,”

    Also, Hank Aaron, Barry Bonds, lots of names. When someone hits a HR, one of the three “true” outcomes according to Sabermetricians, whom should one recall? In other words, which single individual in the 20th century made the HR his signature outcome? Babe Ruth. During the ’20’s, there were some years that Ruth’s total HR’s for a season exceeded the total number of HR’s hit by individual AL/NL teams. At one point it was for every 8 or 10 HR’s hit in a single year, one of them was hit by Babe Ruth. Williams certainly can’t claim that feat.

    “and missed several seasons while he was flying fighters for Uncle Sam, both in WWII, and then again in Korea.”

    Should’ve, could’ve, but didn’t. If ifs were a fifth, we’d have Christmas time every day. Ruth missed about four full seasons because he was a P. If he had played every day from 1915-1918, his career HR total would be much higher.

    “Ted Williams’s career on-base percentage of .4817 is the highest ever,”

    So what? OBP was never a thing during Williams career, all he cared about was winning the batting title. Funny you don’t mention that Williams’s batting average of .344 is two points higher than Ruth’s .342. But, Ruth was a total hitter, who focused not just on hitting the ball, but on actually helping his team win WS.

    “Ruth’s Yankees won 4 World Series and 7 pennants, while the Red Sox with Williams played only in the ’46 series, won by the Cardinals.”

    Exactly. And ultimately that’s what counts the most. “Exceptional claims demand exceptional evidence.” In other words, if you’re going to state that Williams is the greatest hitter of the 20th century, then we have to look at the logical conclusion: How’d he do in the post season? He hit .205 in 7 games, largely because he refused to help his team by hitting the ball to the opposite field. STL manager employed the same shift vs him that was made popular by manager Lou Boudreau of CLE. Whereas Williams’s contemporary, Stan Musial, also a great hitter, played in 4 WS and won 3 championships. And Stan didn’t have a problem hitting the ball to all fields.

    Point being: For both Ruth’s and Williams’ careers, and for most of the 20th century, the traditional metrics to judge a hitter were measured by HR, BA, and RBI. And which player of the two has the most HRs and RBIs for his career? Babe Ruth.

    Williams didn’t really change the game of MLB much during his career, except that managers began to employ a shift against straight pull hitters who refused to help their teams win games. Ruth, on the other hand, directly impacted the game by changing the entire way it had been played. Before Ruth, MLB was in the Dead Ball era, where teams scratched for a single run at a time. By hitting more HR’s than anyone else before him, Babe Ruth directly impacted MLB and changed the way it was being played. Even today, two of the three “True” outcomes (HR, W, K), can be directly traced to Babe Ruth and no one else. In the early ’20’s, Ruth set a single season record for intentional walks and total walks in a single season that stood until Bonds broke it in the early 2000’s.

    2020 marks the century mark of Babe Ruth’s first season in NY. He hit 54 HR’s nearly twice the highest number in a single season. That’s having a direct impact on the MLB immediately.

    In this sense, MLB is still playing Babe Ruth’s game. The Splendid Splinter was just a kid compared to the Sultan of Swat as far as totally dominating the game and being bigger than MLB itself. In his day, Williams had Joe DiMaggio to contend with for top honors as MLB’s biggest superstar. And as he could hit to all fields with equal power, DiMaggio played in 10 WS and had 9 championships.

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @Sparkon
    Steve's assertion was that "San Diego’s Ted Williams [was] probably the best baseball hitter of all time," and was not about who was the most valuable player, won the most WS rings, or any of the rest of your special pleading.

    The best hitter in baseball is the guy who gets to first base most often as reflected by the on-base percentage. By that metric, Ted Williams is, beyond any doubt, the best baseball hitter of all time.
  132. @Flip
    Actually his ancestor was Henry VII and he is descended from a sister of Henry VIII.

    Henry VIII is a collateral ancestor, not a direct one, as you noted. The direct line of Harry’s ancestry comes down from Henry VII through Mary Stuart and her heirs.

    I had not wished to belabor that minor point, but thank you.

  133. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Was Cisco Kid a friend of yours?

    Yes, he drink whiskey, Poncho drink the wine. We met down on the fort of Rio Grande.

  134. @Neuday
    Speedy Gonzalez was very short.

    Speedy Gonzalez was very short.

    …and kind of mousy.

  135. @william munny
    This is consistent with my impression that Mexicans used to be considered white, more-or-less, by Americans. People in most of America never saw a Mexican in real life, only those on TV and in the movies who appeared to be Spaniards. The peasant indigenous people were unknown here.

    In Don Seigel’s 1948 film “The Big Steal”, starring Robert Mitchum and William Bendix, the film actually has extensive (for that time) on location filming in Mexico. Various scenes, such as Mitchum pulling into a gas station run by Mestizos. That place, the countryside, and the Mexican construction crew are all clearly mestizos. Most of the places that Siegel chose to film all had a look of genuine poverty, nothing very glamorous or high end out in the countryside. One would suppose that that part of Mexico has improved since 1948.

  136. @Autochthon

    Diet gotta play an effect, just how it makes Brits ugly.
     
    https://trishisabelle.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/audrey-hepburn9107.jpg

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7EJQWNvYrio/T04f-sXCIcI/AAAAAAAAmzk/BQvb3I-HiYY/s1600/Elizabeth_Taylor.jpg

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2jWa510TL80/UJzH6CTui4I/AAAAAAAAbes/S9yLOmSyAd0/s1600/Anna+Popplewell+22.jpg

    https://celebmafia.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/iskra-lawrence-in-bikini-on-the-beach-in-miami-12-11-2017-10.jpg

    But, then, I notice your writing also suggests you my think complete sentences are "faggy."

    Are 3 and 4 supposed to be famous?

    • Replies: @Lot
    #4 is a plus size fashion model. If only all plus sizers....
  137. @Lot
    Your link shows the tallest women are in Asturias in the far north and the tallest men in Madrid in the middle of the north.

    Using only the most recent cohort, the tallest men of the big regions is Castilla y Leon in the north and shortest is Andalucia, 4cm shorter.

    Further, there’s no reason to think Germanic settlement patterns after the fall of the Western Empire affected Spanish height, because there were just too few of them. I recall one estimate that the visigoths were only 6% of the Spanish population at the time of the Moorish invasion.

    Rather Spain, just like most every country in the temperate zone with a wide north-south range, has a height gradient, and it is ancient in origin.

    True, the Visigoths and many of the other Germanic tribes were never numerous enough to seriously imprint their genetics and language on those they conquered. Britain seems to be the exception to the rule. The Saxons did have a major genetic imprint, especially in areas like East Anglia, and other than Wales and Cornwall pretty much stamped out the Celtic languages.

    • Replies: @Lot
    Agree.

    The Germanic conquests did result in some permanent expansion of German speaking areas. The Romans controlled about 10% of modern Germany for an extended period, and larger shares of Austria, Flanders, and German-Switzerland. After a while these were likely Latin speaking, just as Roman England was. Yet they were sufficiently settled they ended up Germanic language.

    The Visigoth “conquest” of Spain was really more of a semi-voluntary handover to a Roman ally. They didn’t rape and pillage, they married into and only partly displaced the prior upper class.
    , @JohnPlywood
    Multiple genetic studies prove you wrong.

    https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/366/6466/708/F1.large.jpg?width=800&height=600&carousel=1

    A small number of men can drastically alter the genetic makeup of an entire country by impregnating a large number of females, anyway.

  138. @Reg Cæsar
    Does Tuba City ever take on Yuba City?

    How come they get to keep the name Warriors? Scott Adams's Hartwick was pressured to abandon it 25 years ago:


    'Dilbert,' changes to images and campus for Hartwick in 1991

    Hartwick's county seat held on to their Redskin almost 20 years longer, and their new Hawkeye at least has a local connection:


    Cooperstown Changes Mascot from Redskins to Hawkeyes


    “The Indian hunter is probably more in keeping with the name Hawkeyes because that’s just one of many nicknames of the white protagonist in Cooper’s novels,” said Tillapaugh, the village attorney. “For us in Cooperstown, it has such a local connection and is such a hero figure.”

    Lessons learned on how Cooperstown bid farewell to its Redskins mascot
     

    Hawkeye may be a German:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Adam_Hartmann
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lederstrumpfbrunnen

    So it's similar to the Ravens in Poe's Baltimore.

    Hey, wait a minute... Ravens and Eagles are the totems for Tlingit and Haida moieties. Why are Baltimore and Philadelphia allowed to appropriate them?

    Quoth the Titans, “Nevermore.”

  139. How can one objectively separate Mexican Americans?
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/423632v2

  140. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "Indeed, but Williams is a worthy claimant to the crown,"

    Also, Hank Aaron, Barry Bonds, lots of names. When someone hits a HR, one of the three "true" outcomes according to Sabermetricians, whom should one recall? In other words, which single individual in the 20th century made the HR his signature outcome? Babe Ruth. During the '20's, there were some years that Ruth's total HR's for a season exceeded the total number of HR's hit by individual AL/NL teams. At one point it was for every 8 or 10 HR's hit in a single year, one of them was hit by Babe Ruth. Williams certainly can't claim that feat.


    "and missed several seasons while he was flying fighters for Uncle Sam, both in WWII, and then again in Korea."

    Should've, could've, but didn't. If ifs were a fifth, we'd have Christmas time every day. Ruth missed about four full seasons because he was a P. If he had played every day from 1915-1918, his career HR total would be much higher.

    "Ted Williams’s career on-base percentage of .4817 is the highest ever,"

    So what? OBP was never a thing during Williams career, all he cared about was winning the batting title. Funny you don't mention that Williams's batting average of .344 is two points higher than Ruth's .342. But, Ruth was a total hitter, who focused not just on hitting the ball, but on actually helping his team win WS.

    "Ruth’s Yankees won 4 World Series and 7 pennants, while the Red Sox with Williams played only in the ’46 series, won by the Cardinals."

    Exactly. And ultimately that's what counts the most. "Exceptional claims demand exceptional evidence." In other words, if you're going to state that Williams is the greatest hitter of the 20th century, then we have to look at the logical conclusion: How'd he do in the post season? He hit .205 in 7 games, largely because he refused to help his team by hitting the ball to the opposite field. STL manager employed the same shift vs him that was made popular by manager Lou Boudreau of CLE. Whereas Williams's contemporary, Stan Musial, also a great hitter, played in 4 WS and won 3 championships. And Stan didn't have a problem hitting the ball to all fields.

    Point being: For both Ruth's and Williams' careers, and for most of the 20th century, the traditional metrics to judge a hitter were measured by HR, BA, and RBI. And which player of the two has the most HRs and RBIs for his career? Babe Ruth.

    Williams didn't really change the game of MLB much during his career, except that managers began to employ a shift against straight pull hitters who refused to help their teams win games. Ruth, on the other hand, directly impacted the game by changing the entire way it had been played. Before Ruth, MLB was in the Dead Ball era, where teams scratched for a single run at a time. By hitting more HR's than anyone else before him, Babe Ruth directly impacted MLB and changed the way it was being played. Even today, two of the three "True" outcomes (HR, W, K), can be directly traced to Babe Ruth and no one else. In the early '20's, Ruth set a single season record for intentional walks and total walks in a single season that stood until Bonds broke it in the early 2000's.

    2020 marks the century mark of Babe Ruth's first season in NY. He hit 54 HR's nearly twice the highest number in a single season. That's having a direct impact on the MLB immediately.

    In this sense, MLB is still playing Babe Ruth's game. The Splendid Splinter was just a kid compared to the Sultan of Swat as far as totally dominating the game and being bigger than MLB itself. In his day, Williams had Joe DiMaggio to contend with for top honors as MLB's biggest superstar. And as he could hit to all fields with equal power, DiMaggio played in 10 WS and had 9 championships.

    Steve’s assertion was that “San Diego’s Ted Williams [was] probably the best baseball hitter of all time,” and was not about who was the most valuable player, won the most WS rings, or any of the rest of your special pleading.

    The best hitter in baseball is the guy who gets to first base most often as reflected by the on-base percentage. By that metric, Ted Williams is, beyond any doubt, the best baseball hitter of all time.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    As in Science, exceptional claims demand exceptional evidence. Included in exceptional claims of an individual is the expectation that the evidence bears out the claims. Getting to 1B is fine and good; however, technically speaking, OBP only factors into one of the Three True Outcomes of Sabermetrics. And even there, Babe Ruth has more career BBs than Ted Williams. The second True Outcome, HR, Ruth has nearly 200 more career ahead of Williams.

    "The best hitter in baseball is the guy who gets to first base most often as reflected by the on-base percentage."

    Also batting average, because that determines how one is hitting the ball. I'm a bit surprised you dont mention the fact that Williams is the last hitter to bat over .400. That was a very, very big deal throughout the 20th century.

    Also, wouldn't the best hitter in MLB also be the one who hits the most HRs which is a major part of the Three True Outcomes? Yes, he most certainly would at that. By that reasonable metric, Babe Ruth is far and away the best hitter.

    The best hitter in baseball is the one who has the most of two of the Three True Outcomes, which is one of the foundations of Sabermetrics. By that metric, HR, and BB, Babe Ruth is the best hitter to have ever played the game.

    BB gets one to 1B, do they not? They do. The reason Ruth was walked far more times than Williams was because he was a feared hitter. And during the second part of his career, he was intentionally walked with Lou Gehrig behind him.

    "By that metric, Ted Williams is, beyond any doubt, the best baseball hitter of all time."

    That is only one metric, and not a part of the Three True Outcomes, which definitely determine who is the best hitter of all time. As Ruth has hit more HRs and had more intentional BBs than Williams, it is Ruth, period.

    A thing to remember: One can also tell an athlete's greatness on the sport in which he played by how well he's recalled by people who are not followers of sports in general. In other words, how well he has become part of popular collective memory. By that metric, Ted Williams is fading from memory. Whereas I daresay, that most people over the age of 12 have heard of Babe Ruth (e.g. he was a fat dude who hit tons of HRs).

    Ruth directly impacted MLB that it changed the way it was being played. The AL introduced a new ball the following year to increase offensive output. That's directly tied to Babe Ruth.

    Again, unless numerous players, GMs, and Sabermetricians are lying, the officially stated goal of fielding a team every season is to win a championship. That is perhaps the most important metric of individual players careers: Did they win a championship, yes or no? The book Moneyball takes great pains to show that by patiently following Sabermetric diciplines, a team, no matter the size of their market, can in fact win a championship. Winning 4 of them to 0 (and directly having an impact on the championships via two of the three true outcomes) does speak to a player's ability to play within a team and contribute to the team's on field success in a given season.

    While its true that there is no I in T-E-A-M, there is an I in W-I-N. If you carefully read thru Williams autobiography, he makes mention of the science of hitting. Next to nothing about the art of winning, because for him, BOS winning a championship did not rate very high on his personal list for individual success as an MLB player.

    "We can finish in last place without you."--HOF GM Branch Rickey's retort on trading away HOF Ralph Kiner to CHI when Kiner asked for a raise. And Ralph Kiner had one of MLB's highest ever HRs to AB ratio of the 20th century. But, how much did he actually contribute to PIT's success? Not at all. The reason Babe Ruth stayed in NY was because he greatly contributed to the Yankees' WS success. When he was released in 1935 it was because he was pushing 40, and also the fact that NY had not won the WS since '32.

    By Sabermetrics, the greatest team of all time during the twentieth century is the 1927 Yankees. Which player on that team has the lion's share of the credit for the team's success? Babe Ruth. Ergo, not even close as to which player has had the most direct impact on MLB and for a time, his importance and talent weighed larger than the sport itself.

    R is for Ruth
    To tell you the truth,
    there's just no more to be said,
    Just R is for Ruth

    , @Hibernian
    Slugging percentage, based on one for a single, two for a double, etc., is a better measure.
  141. @Mr. Grey
    Si, verdad. This reminds me of some DNA show I saw years ago, celebrities taking DNA tests, and there were a few white Mexicans, like Christina Aguilera (forgot who else) who were shocked that their ancestry was mostly European. They seemed to expect to be descendants of Aztec Royalty.

    That was moronic of her, because her mother was of Irish, and German ancestry. Only his father was Ecuadorian, mixed as most Ecuadorians. So of course she would be mostly European.

  142. @Travis
    exactly.

    The concept of La Raza can be traced to the ideas and writings of Jose Vasconcelos, the Mexican theorist who developed the theory of la Raza cosmica (the cosmic or super race). Vasconelos developed a systematic theory which argued that climatic and geographic conditions and mixture of Spanish and Indian races created a superior race.

    In other words, La Raza is the Master Race, but rather than based on notions of racial purity, La Raza’s inherent, biological superiority is based on its hybridity, on the mixing in Latin America of , “the black, the Indian, the Mongol, and the white.” La Raza tries to whitewash this by writing that “this is an inclusive concept, meaning that Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.” Not really; what it really means is that Hispanics, and specifically Mestizos, are superior to those of us unfortunate enough not to be part La Raza.

    Vasconcelos was very explicit that the dominant traits of La Raza Cosmica should be European. The way to guarantee that was incentivizing European migration.

  143. @James N. Kennett
    OT: preview of a report on complaints against the police in Rotherham. The report is not yet published.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/police-chief-we-ignored-sex-abuse-of-children-hgrhc358v


    A senior police officer admitted that his force ignored the sexual abuse of girls by Pakistani grooming gangs for decades because it was afraid of increasing “racial tensions”, a watchdog has ruled.

    After a five-year investigation, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) upheld a complaint that the Rotherham officer told a missing child’s distraught father that the town “would erupt” if it was known that Asian men were routinely having sex with under-age white girls.
     

    Yet the town eventually found out and did not erupt. The British authorities have a breathtaking contempt for ordinary people, and believe that we are perpetually on the brink of starting pogroms. This is not a belief based on any evidence; perhaps it was instilled by "diversity training".

    The Times' story is repeated here:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7901731/Police-chief-admitted-force-ignored-sex-abuse-grooming-gangs-30-years.html

    Yet the town eventually found out and did not erupt.

    How I wish they had. They should have made the Negro riots in USA look like a little tea party.

  144. @Svevlad
    Diet gotta play an effect, just how it makes Brits ugly. I mean they're grain brained to the max. Switch 'em to a more high-protein diet and their height and athletic performance will improve too

    Brits are shorter and paler than Americans but aren’t ugly. They are a little less fat than Americans, too.

    Half of Hollywood actors nowadays are British.

    • Replies: @Svevlad
    Which proves my point even further - they had good, traditional diets, allowing them to develop fully.

    Jeez, too few people read viriculture.com. Just use wayback machine to make it go to 2016 or something and poof
  145. @Lot
    The Spanish cousins of white Mexicans aren’t tall either. Currently the average in Spain is 5-8 or 5-9. In Lee’s day 5-7 might have been average there.

    And most Spanish migration was from the South, which is a little shorter still.

    That’s only an inch shorter than white Americans. White American men average just under 5’10, women around 5’4.

    Americans are not Dutch, Serbian, Swiss levels of tall. We are closer to the Irish and French, and only a bit taller than the Brits.

    Maybe we were known as being tall 100 years ago, but the rest of the world caught up.

    Also fatness is probably starting to slowly depress height.

    I am just under 5’6 and female. I walk around any poor or lower middle class area I feel pretty tall and thin compared to the other women. That’s including the whites. Then I go eat at a fancy restaurant and I feel pretty short.

  146. @S. Anonyia
    Brits are shorter and paler than Americans but aren’t ugly. They are a little less fat than Americans, too.

    Half of Hollywood actors nowadays are British.

    Which proves my point even further – they had good, traditional diets, allowing them to develop fully.

    Jeez, too few people read viriculture.com. Just use wayback machine to make it go to 2016 or something and poof

  147. @Mr. Grey
    Si, verdad. This reminds me of some DNA show I saw years ago, celebrities taking DNA tests, and there were a few white Mexicans, like Christina Aguilera (forgot who else) who were shocked that their ancestry was mostly European. They seemed to expect to be descendants of Aztec Royalty.

    Maybe you’re thinking of the chronically unfunny George Lopez’s talk show on TBS. Leaving aside why is it supposed to be entertaining to do DNA tests on national tv, it made one wonder where all this “white privilege” is.

    Lopez gave DNA tests to Jessica Alba and Eva Longoria. IIRC when they found out most of their genes were white Alba seemed bummed; Longoria seemed positively horrified.

  148. @Lot
    “ 35%+? Subsaharan”

    She looks a lot less than that, 0% with the right hair and makeup in many recent photos, maybe 20-25% with untreated hair and a tan in childhood photos (like a lighter Puerto Rican girl).

    Looking at her mother though, she seems very typical of Heritage Blacks in her hair, color and facial features, other than her eyes being pleasantly shaped and a nice clear shade of pure brown rather than blackish.

    Reference pics:

    Pure West African lady from Nigeria

    https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2015/03/26/20/Nigeria.jpg

    MM and her ~70% SSA mother:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2018/05/15/TELEMMGLPICT000162650986_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqH8g0IxmZhOOFzRvM6k8ERvr7sARQy7EgBjwPUzvqL_M.jpeg?imwidth=450

    In bright light they look paler:

    http://img4.thelist.com/img/uploads/2018/05/meghan-markle-mother-doria-ragland-780x438_rev1.jpg

    With parents in childhood

    http://dtlon6z3v1kfl.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/09145730/NINTCHDBPICT0004203405967.jpg

    I’d put her around 1/3 SSA. Black features are not as dominant as people assume. There are some quadroons around here and I can’t even tell they have black ancestry. They generally have softer looking hair than Megan.

    • Replies: @Prosa123
    But then you have Joakim Noah, who is 1/4 black but looks fully black.
  149. @ScarletNumber

    These days there are rewards for identifying as Latino, but I’m sure some people who are 1/4th or 1/8th don’t bother.
     
    One of my students is so obviously German that she could be pictured on a Hitler Youth poster. However, in our records she is listed as Hispanic. One day I asked her about this. She said that her mother was born in Argentina. So now I refer to her as the Nazi.

    On our field trip to the Jewish Heritage museum their cafeteria was closed, so we had the students pack their lunches. She decided to bring a ham-and-cheese sandwich on a bagel.

    Bagels are a Russian bread, co-opted in this country along with Lox, by the ancient civilisation that has no culinary tradition (No, not the english).

  150. @Sparkon
    Steve's assertion was that "San Diego’s Ted Williams [was] probably the best baseball hitter of all time," and was not about who was the most valuable player, won the most WS rings, or any of the rest of your special pleading.

    The best hitter in baseball is the guy who gets to first base most often as reflected by the on-base percentage. By that metric, Ted Williams is, beyond any doubt, the best baseball hitter of all time.

    As in Science, exceptional claims demand exceptional evidence. Included in exceptional claims of an individual is the expectation that the evidence bears out the claims. Getting to 1B is fine and good; however, technically speaking, OBP only factors into one of the Three True Outcomes of Sabermetrics. And even there, Babe Ruth has more career BBs than Ted Williams. The second True Outcome, HR, Ruth has nearly 200 more career ahead of Williams.

    “The best hitter in baseball is the guy who gets to first base most often as reflected by the on-base percentage.”

    Also batting average, because that determines how one is hitting the ball. I’m a bit surprised you dont mention the fact that Williams is the last hitter to bat over .400. That was a very, very big deal throughout the 20th century.

    Also, wouldn’t the best hitter in MLB also be the one who hits the most HRs which is a major part of the Three True Outcomes? Yes, he most certainly would at that. By that reasonable metric, Babe Ruth is far and away the best hitter.

    The best hitter in baseball is the one who has the most of two of the Three True Outcomes, which is one of the foundations of Sabermetrics. By that metric, HR, and BB, Babe Ruth is the best hitter to have ever played the game.

    BB gets one to 1B, do they not? They do. The reason Ruth was walked far more times than Williams was because he was a feared hitter. And during the second part of his career, he was intentionally walked with Lou Gehrig behind him.

    “By that metric, Ted Williams is, beyond any doubt, the best baseball hitter of all time.”

    That is only one metric, and not a part of the Three True Outcomes, which definitely determine who is the best hitter of all time. As Ruth has hit more HRs and had more intentional BBs than Williams, it is Ruth, period.

    A thing to remember: One can also tell an athlete’s greatness on the sport in which he played by how well he’s recalled by people who are not followers of sports in general. In other words, how well he has become part of popular collective memory. By that metric, Ted Williams is fading from memory. Whereas I daresay, that most people over the age of 12 have heard of Babe Ruth (e.g. he was a fat dude who hit tons of HRs).

    Ruth directly impacted MLB that it changed the way it was being played. The AL introduced a new ball the following year to increase offensive output. That’s directly tied to Babe Ruth.

    Again, unless numerous players, GMs, and Sabermetricians are lying, the officially stated goal of fielding a team every season is to win a championship. That is perhaps the most important metric of individual players careers: Did they win a championship, yes or no? The book Moneyball takes great pains to show that by patiently following Sabermetric diciplines, a team, no matter the size of their market, can in fact win a championship. Winning 4 of them to 0 (and directly having an impact on the championships via two of the three true outcomes) does speak to a player’s ability to play within a team and contribute to the team’s on field success in a given season.

    While its true that there is no I in T-E-A-M, there is an I in W-I-N. If you carefully read thru Williams autobiography, he makes mention of the science of hitting. Next to nothing about the art of winning, because for him, BOS winning a championship did not rate very high on his personal list for individual success as an MLB player.

    “We can finish in last place without you.”–HOF GM Branch Rickey’s retort on trading away HOF Ralph Kiner to CHI when Kiner asked for a raise. And Ralph Kiner had one of MLB’s highest ever HRs to AB ratio of the 20th century. But, how much did he actually contribute to PIT’s success? Not at all. The reason Babe Ruth stayed in NY was because he greatly contributed to the Yankees’ WS success. When he was released in 1935 it was because he was pushing 40, and also the fact that NY had not won the WS since ’32.

    By Sabermetrics, the greatest team of all time during the twentieth century is the 1927 Yankees. Which player on that team has the lion’s share of the credit for the team’s success? Babe Ruth. Ergo, not even close as to which player has had the most direct impact on MLB and for a time, his importance and talent weighed larger than the sport itself.

    R is for Ruth
    To tell you the truth,
    there’s just no more to be said,
    Just R is for Ruth

  151. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Mexicans also had a better chance when the white world suppressed black talent. Would the American Indian Jim Thorpe had accomplished as much if he had to compete against tons of blacks? Why did Japan do pretty well in track in the 1938 Olympics? Blacks were still suppressed or discouraged in many fields. Once blacks were allowed to dominate, other races just gave up. They even got to recruiting blacks to run their races. Look at Europe and even some Central Asian republic. They get blacks to run or compete for them.

  152. @syonredux
    Sometimes you win the genetic lottery...

    Lynda Carter with her sister and her Mestiza mother:


    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/51/32/59/513259ec22198bd2b1a8d17e6e53c4be.jpg

    https://bodyheightweight.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/lynda-carter-family-mother-Juana-Cordova-Carter.jpg

    Clearly, Lynda is expressing more of the European side of her ancestry....


    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8pkozpNA1OU/UG9DGyB_N9I/AAAAAAAAJzk/yj4A1Uk_yjI/s1600/lynda_carter_wonder_cleavage_wbxiNRy.jpg

    Lynda Carter looked more Anglo than most Anglos

  153. @ScarletNumber
    Are 3 and 4 supposed to be famous?

    #4 is a plus size fashion model. If only all plus sizers….

  154. @Sparkon

    Uh, someone named Babe Ruth might be considered to have that title.
     
    Indeed, but Williams is a worthy claimant to the crown, and missed several seasons while he was flying fighters for Uncle Sam, both in WWII, and then again in Korea.

    Despite that, Ted Williams's career on-base percentage of .4817 is the highest ever, with Babe Ruth in 2nd place with .4739, but Ruth's Yankees won 4 World Series and 7 pennants, while the Red Sox with Williams played only in the '46 series, won by the Cardinals.

    Also in the top 20 career OBP are some familiar names:

    5. Gehrig (.4474)
    6. Bonds (.4443)
    8. Hornsby (.4337)
    9. Cobb (.4330)
    10. Foxx (.4283)
    18. Mantle (.4205)

    Willie Mays with a career OBP of .384 is not in the top 100.

    Well, don't quote me on this, but my impression is that Mexicans have rather small hands and feet. The reports I've seen just now indicate that there have been just 4 Mexican players in the NBA.

    In major league baseball, while there are numerous players from Latin America, few are from Mexico:

    This year, 251 players out of a pool of 882 players were born outside the 50 U.S. states, or nearly 29 percent. Of those, 220, or nearly 88 percent, of those born outside the 50 U.S. states, are from Latin America.

    The Dominican Republic leads the way with 102 players, followed by Venezuela with 68, Puerto Rico, a U.S. territory, with 18, and Cuba with 17.

    Just eight major-league players this year are from Mexico.
     
    https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/immigration/2019/03/28/why-so-few-major-league-baseball-players-mexico-arizona-diamondbacks/3278995002/

    Psst. One theory is that many young Mexicans are too busy upholding the myth of Hispanic crime to have much time for sports.
  155. @Hapalong Cassidy
    True, the Visigoths and many of the other Germanic tribes were never numerous enough to seriously imprint their genetics and language on those they conquered. Britain seems to be the exception to the rule. The Saxons did have a major genetic imprint, especially in areas like East Anglia, and other than Wales and Cornwall pretty much stamped out the Celtic languages.

    Agree.

    The Germanic conquests did result in some permanent expansion of German speaking areas. The Romans controlled about 10% of modern Germany for an extended period, and larger shares of Austria, Flanders, and German-Switzerland. After a while these were likely Latin speaking, just as Roman England was. Yet they were sufficiently settled they ended up Germanic language.

    The Visigoth “conquest” of Spain was really more of a semi-voluntary handover to a Roman ally. They didn’t rape and pillage, they married into and only partly displaced the prior upper class.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    After a while these [Roman areas of modern Germany] were likely Latin speaking, just as Roman England was.
     
    Many people are unaware pre-Roman England (like Gaul) was entirely Celtic, not Germanic. The Germanic invasions occurred later, probably starting around the 4th century AD.
  156. anon[357] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Grey
    Si, verdad. This reminds me of some DNA show I saw years ago, celebrities taking DNA tests, and there were a few white Mexicans, like Christina Aguilera (forgot who else) who were shocked that their ancestry was mostly European. They seemed to expect to be descendants of Aztec Royalty.

    Many Latinos from South America are shocked to discover they have significant indigenous ancestry.

    My wife is from Chile. She appears 100% white, as do her siblings. When she got her 23andme results she was adamant that the results were false , she refused to accept the results which indicated she was 18% Native American. When I told her mother and brothers about the results, they also mocked the tests, stating it was not possible for them to be part indio. The Mother stated, it must come from her father, could not be from her side of the family. Yet when her mother did the ancestry test it indicated she was 30% Native American.

    The results certainly surprised me , As her mother does not have traits of the indigenous people, she has light brown curly hair, freckles and is tall with large breasts like my wife. Looks more like like Linda Carter, but I suppose Linda carter could be 20% Native American, since her mother is Mexican.

  157. @Autochthon

    Diet gotta play an effect, just how it makes Brits ugly.
     
    https://trishisabelle.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/audrey-hepburn9107.jpg

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7EJQWNvYrio/T04f-sXCIcI/AAAAAAAAmzk/BQvb3I-HiYY/s1600/Elizabeth_Taylor.jpg

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2jWa510TL80/UJzH6CTui4I/AAAAAAAAbes/S9yLOmSyAd0/s1600/Anna+Popplewell+22.jpg

    https://celebmafia.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/iskra-lawrence-in-bikini-on-the-beach-in-miami-12-11-2017-10.jpg

    But, then, I notice your writing also suggests you my think complete sentences are "faggy."

    Why is 4?

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    Because God loves us, and wants us to be happy...?
  158. @Lot
    Agree.

    The Germanic conquests did result in some permanent expansion of German speaking areas. The Romans controlled about 10% of modern Germany for an extended period, and larger shares of Austria, Flanders, and German-Switzerland. After a while these were likely Latin speaking, just as Roman England was. Yet they were sufficiently settled they ended up Germanic language.

    The Visigoth “conquest” of Spain was really more of a semi-voluntary handover to a Roman ally. They didn’t rape and pillage, they married into and only partly displaced the prior upper class.

    After a while these [Roman areas of modern Germany] were likely Latin speaking, just as Roman England was.

    Many people are unaware pre-Roman England (like Gaul) was entirely Celtic, not Germanic. The Germanic invasions occurred later, probably starting around the 4th century AD.

  159. @iffen
    where does Lee Trevino at 5 foot 7 fit in here?

    No where. He is writing about athletes. Golfers are not athletes.

    Golf is not an athletic sport.

    It is merely an anti-Semitic cudgel wielded by WASPS.

    Golf is not an athletic sport.

    Nonsense.

    • Disagree: Jim Christian
    • Replies: @Dissident
    You disagree with yourself?
  160. @S. Anonyia
    I’d put her around 1/3 SSA. Black features are not as dominant as people assume. There are some quadroons around here and I can’t even tell they have black ancestry. They generally have softer looking hair than Megan.

    But then you have Joakim Noah, who is 1/4 black but looks fully black.

  161. Just read the title of this article and nothing more because it is ridiculous. IF anything Mexican Americans appear to be growing taller and becoming more athletic. Maybe it is just where I live but I see more Mexican Americans becoming involved in sports like basketball and football because of their recent growth spurt. I also see more rather large Mexican Americans at the gym and these guys for the most part aren’t the stereotypical 5’5″ 200lb bodybuilder manlets, some are easily 6′ or better and very athletic. Hell, Mexicans have been dominate in boxing and soccer for years and both of those sports are “athletic” events are they not?

    I have been around Mexicans for a good portion of my life and strangely I kid you not that I was thinking just the other day that Mexicans are becoming bigger. Sure, I see some Mexican males that are still well under 6′ tall, but I see nearly as many in the 5’9″ to 6′ tall range as well. Isn’t the average height for American males about 5’9″ to 5’10”? I bet the current average height of the Mexican American male is probably not much shorter than the national average for all American males, at the minimum it is probably 5’7″ to 5’9″ for Mexican American males. I have seen some young Mexicans, both Mexican American and Mexican nationals that were excellent basketball and football players, and they certainly must be born with a pair of boxing gloves on their hands because those dudes can chunk’em. Anyhow, who cares how tall Mexicans are or are becoming? Apparently they are better than Whites at making babies because they are outbreeding the indigenous white people in America and you don’t have height limits for becoming POTUS, a state governor, or any other powerful position. Silly and worthless article whether true or not. How tall is the average Chinese male? Would it really matter in a war with China? Look how tough those little Vietnamese people were against “giant” American soldiers.

  162. From the 2d last paragraph …

    “And new Mexican immigrant women tend to have high fertility in, roughly, there first decade in the U.S., only noticing after they’ve had a passel of kids here that raising children in the U.S. is very expensive.”

    Based upon decades of living in barrio neighborhoods in Southern California — as well in heavily mexican neighborhoods in OR and WA — I seriously doubt that mexican immigrant women notice anything about the raising of their children being ‘very expensive’. After all — it’s US Citizens and Taxpayers who are footing the bill for all of them and their children and their grand children and … ad infinitum. They just know that every new child of theirs results in their getting more $tuff from U$ Citizen$ and Taxpayer$ …

    What’s not to like about that?

  163. @Old Palo Altan
    Very OT; worse, I am going to toot my own horn.

    On the 29th of December last I wrote the following somewhere here at Unz:

    "I think it likely that the “Duchess of Sussex” will be out of the royal family by this time next year. Her latest idea, to profit financially from her marriage to the half-brother of a future king by selling lines of clothing and who knows what else, will prove the final straw for everyone from the Queen on down.

    Will Harry sacrifice all, and head into oblivion with her? I certainly hope so."

    Both my prediction and my hope have been fulfilled, and not a year, but barely three weeks later.

    I just knew that 2020 was going to be a good year.

    Two down, and Bergoglio to go.

    Good for you, OPA.

    James Delingpole is his usual snarky self: https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/01/19/delingpole-megxit-ex-prince-harry-got-woke-now-hes-broke/

    And Sabo is back at it: https://pjmedia.com/trending/conservative-street-artist-mocks-ex-royals-meghan-and-harry-in-latest-hit/

    I sure hope Megan is good in the sack. I can’t see anything else special about her.

  164. @SteveRogers42
    Why is 4?

    Because God loves us, and wants us to be happy…?

  165. @Lot
    “ 35%+? Subsaharan”

    She looks a lot less than that, 0% with the right hair and makeup in many recent photos, maybe 20-25% with untreated hair and a tan in childhood photos (like a lighter Puerto Rican girl).

    Looking at her mother though, she seems very typical of Heritage Blacks in her hair, color and facial features, other than her eyes being pleasantly shaped and a nice clear shade of pure brown rather than blackish.

    Reference pics:

    Pure West African lady from Nigeria

    https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2015/03/26/20/Nigeria.jpg

    MM and her ~70% SSA mother:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2018/05/15/TELEMMGLPICT000162650986_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqH8g0IxmZhOOFzRvM6k8ERvr7sARQy7EgBjwPUzvqL_M.jpeg?imwidth=450

    In bright light they look paler:

    http://img4.thelist.com/img/uploads/2018/05/meghan-markle-mother-doria-ragland-780x438_rev1.jpg

    With parents in childhood

    http://dtlon6z3v1kfl.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/09145730/NINTCHDBPICT0004203405967.jpg

    As might be expected with a royal wedding, people have done some real spadework on the genealogy:

    Mother’s name: Doria Ragland (b.1956)

    Mother’s mother: Jeanette Arnold (1929–2000) (first married name: Johnson)
    Mother’s father: Alvin Azell Ragland (1929–2011)

    Alvin Azell Ragland had a father descended from a line of ‘Mulattoes’ (as determined by the census) back to mid-19th century Georgia; he had a mother whose family was listed exclusively as ‘Negroes’ (by the censuses of their time) in Tennessee (early 20th century) and Alabama (19th century).

    We can probably put Alvin Ragland’s paternal component at 40–50% Subsaharan (both lines paternal lines there were Mulatto, and at least one of his great-grandparents was full-white. A white Georgia woman named Texie Hendrick, it turns out, bore a Black man’s child in 1881 Georgia — I don’t know the rest of that story, but given the time and place, it must have been a scandal; the child was Alvin’s grandfather). If Alvin Ragland’s maternal component (‘Negro’) was the usual 80%+ Subsaharan, Alvin himself would be 60–65% Subsaharan.

    Jeanette Arnold (first married name: Johnson) was probably a more typical 80% Subsaharan, judging by pictures.

    Alvin Ragland: 60–65%
    Jeanette Arnold: 80%
    = 70–72.5% for Meghan Markle’s mom’s Subsaharan ancestry estimate based on paper-genealogy and in consultation with pictures.

    Hence the 35%+ Subsaharan for Meghan Markle herself.

  166. @Sparkon
    Steve's assertion was that "San Diego’s Ted Williams [was] probably the best baseball hitter of all time," and was not about who was the most valuable player, won the most WS rings, or any of the rest of your special pleading.

    The best hitter in baseball is the guy who gets to first base most often as reflected by the on-base percentage. By that metric, Ted Williams is, beyond any doubt, the best baseball hitter of all time.

    Slugging percentage, based on one for a single, two for a double, etc., is a better measure.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Ted Williams' SLG was 634. Babe Ruth's SLG was 690

    Ted Williams WAR was 123.1. Babe Ruth's WAR was 182.4

    *WAR is strongest factor in determining an individual's overall worth to a team (how many wins the individual player directly contributes to the team per season).

    10 WS & 7 Championships vs. 0 Championships.

  167. @Hypnotoad666

    Sometimes you win the genetic lottery…
     
    The combination of raven hair and bronze skin tones with light blue or green eyes seems to be an especially "lucky" combination that all groups seem to find exotically attractive.

    Of course, in Linda Carter's case it also didn't hurt to be tall, athletic and perfectly curvy at the same time. Wonder woman, indeed.

    Lynda Carter doesn’t have anything on half the white girls in the Legends Football League.

  168. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Why is there no link to the BioRxiv quotation that begins this article? Is it the abstract of a technical paper? And is it just me who cannot parse this sentence?: "We show for height, a trait correlated with ancestry, polygenic risk scores based on summary statistics from a European-based genome-wide association study perform poorly in Mexican Americans." What is the grammatical subject of the verb "perform"? What does it mean for scores to perform poorly in a demographic group for a trait like height?

    “We show for height, … polygenic risk scores … perform poorly in Mexican Americans.” What is the grammatical subject of the verb “perform”? What does it mean for scores to perform poorly in a demographic group for a trait like height?

    I believe the above is the parse. It appears they are saying the scoring approach does not do a good job of predicting height in this group.

  169. @Prof. Woland
    This reminds me of Colin Kapernick who married some chick who was not worthy that radicalized him and took him nowhere. Bad choice but it is too late now.

    Or Paul Krugman, for that matter.

  170. @Hapalong Cassidy
    True, the Visigoths and many of the other Germanic tribes were never numerous enough to seriously imprint their genetics and language on those they conquered. Britain seems to be the exception to the rule. The Saxons did have a major genetic imprint, especially in areas like East Anglia, and other than Wales and Cornwall pretty much stamped out the Celtic languages.

    Multiple genetic studies prove you wrong.

    A small number of men can drastically alter the genetic makeup of an entire country by impregnating a large number of females, anyway.

    • Replies: @Anti-HBD
    Curious, which study is that from?
  171. @Realist

    People in most of America never saw a Mexican in real life, only those on TV and in the movies who appeared to be Spaniards. The peasant indigenous people were unknown here.
     
    Those were the days. Bring back the Cisco Kid...especially Pancho.

    The TV Cisco Kid, Duncan Renaldo, wasn’t even Spanish–he was a Romanian whose indeterminately Latin accent (the Romanians and their language are Latin-based, not Slavic ) allowed him to make a career out of playing Spaniards, Mexicans, South Americans, and occasional Frenchmen.

    Pancho, on the other hand, was played by Leo Carillo, a California Spanish-American who was descended from a Hidalgo family that actually held on to their land (Carillo donated some of it to California; there’s a state beach named after him). Supposedly he acted more for the fun of it than to make money, of which he had a lot; he liked to affect an over-the-top Mexican accent as Pancho and similar characters, but could drop it when he wanted–as in one of his only serious roles, in John Ford’s The Fugitive.

    • Thanks: Realist
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Speaking of which, the film Rambo: Last Blood was filmed in Bulgaria and the Canary Islands as opposed to Mexico and AR.
  172. @Manfred Arcane
    The TV Cisco Kid, Duncan Renaldo, wasn't even Spanish--he was a Romanian whose indeterminately Latin accent (the Romanians and their language are Latin-based, not Slavic ) allowed him to make a career out of playing Spaniards, Mexicans, South Americans, and occasional Frenchmen.

    Pancho, on the other hand, was played by Leo Carillo, a California Spanish-American who was descended from a Hidalgo family that actually held on to their land (Carillo donated some of it to California; there's a state beach named after him). Supposedly he acted more for the fun of it than to make money, of which he had a lot; he liked to affect an over-the-top Mexican accent as Pancho and similar characters, but could drop it when he wanted--as in one of his only serious roles, in John Ford's The Fugitive.

    Speaking of which, the film Rambo: Last Blood was filmed in Bulgaria and the Canary Islands as opposed to Mexico and AR.

  173. @Hibernian
    Slugging percentage, based on one for a single, two for a double, etc., is a better measure.

    Ted Williams’ SLG was 634. Babe Ruth’s SLG was 690

    Ted Williams WAR was 123.1. Babe Ruth’s WAR was 182.4

    *WAR is strongest factor in determining an individual’s overall worth to a team (how many wins the individual player directly contributes to the team per season).

    10 WS & 7 Championships vs. 0 Championships.

    • Replies: @anon
    If Ted Williams head was successfully preserved at Alcor long enough and it was possible to thaw part of it out and clone a body and then the head was properly defrozen and surgically bonded to the body and the procedure was a success and his reflexes and eyesight were fully restored and baseball was still being played ... would he bat left or right handed?
    , @Sparkon
    Yogi Berra won 10 World Series rings, more than any other player. That makes him The Best Baseball Player of All Time, in that particular category.

    World Series Rings (championships)

    10 Berra
    9 DiMaggio,
    8 Dickey, Rizutto, Crosseti, Gherig
    7 Bauer, Mantle, Ruth...

    Yogi Berra had a big strike zone. He swung at everything, but didn't strike out, or walk much. He was a reliable RBI man in the middle of the Yankee line-up for over a decade, often hitting cleanup behind Mickey Mantle.

    Yogi Berra - Lifetime OBP .348, Slugging .482

    Bill Russell of the Boston Celtics won 11 NBA championships, but of course neither of these guys is/was a Mexican.

  174. anon[307] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Ted Williams' SLG was 634. Babe Ruth's SLG was 690

    Ted Williams WAR was 123.1. Babe Ruth's WAR was 182.4

    *WAR is strongest factor in determining an individual's overall worth to a team (how many wins the individual player directly contributes to the team per season).

    10 WS & 7 Championships vs. 0 Championships.

    If Ted Williams head was successfully preserved at Alcor long enough and it was possible to thaw part of it out and clone a body and then the head was properly defrozen and surgically bonded to the body and the procedure was a success and his reflexes and eyesight were fully restored and baseball was still being played … would he bat left or right handed?

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    And I think that says it all about Ted Williams. IF he's instantly recalled for anything, it's for that weird freakish thing about his dead head, crypto-cryogenics, etc.
  175. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Ted Williams' SLG was 634. Babe Ruth's SLG was 690

    Ted Williams WAR was 123.1. Babe Ruth's WAR was 182.4

    *WAR is strongest factor in determining an individual's overall worth to a team (how many wins the individual player directly contributes to the team per season).

    10 WS & 7 Championships vs. 0 Championships.

    Yogi Berra won 10 World Series rings, more than any other player. That makes him The Best Baseball Player of All Time, in that particular category.

    World Series Rings (championships)

    10 Berra
    9 DiMaggio,
    8 Dickey, Rizutto, Crosseti, Gherig
    7 Bauer, Mantle, Ruth…

    Yogi Berra had a big strike zone. He swung at everything, but didn’t strike out, or walk much. He was a reliable RBI man in the middle of the Yankee line-up for over a decade, often hitting cleanup behind Mickey Mantle.

    Yogi Berra – Lifetime OBP .348, Slugging .482

    Bill Russell of the Boston Celtics won 11 NBA championships, but of course neither of these guys is/was a Mexican.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Casey Stengel thought he was a genius at switching lineups around, although he probably was just going senile, but he knew enough to write 3 Mantle and 4 Berra on his lineup card everyday, so whatever else he did on whim usually didn't hurt too much.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "Yogi Berra won 10 World Series rings, more than any other player. That makes him The Best Baseball Player of All Time, in that particular category."

    You changed the argument to bring in a red herring. The original point was Ruth vs Williams. When the bulk of evidence clearly show that Ruth was the greater hitter, greater player, and had the most impact of ANY player ever in MLB in the 20th century, suddenly Yogi comes into the picture?

    Wait. What?

    Ruth vs Williams was the argument. On my side, is history, and the bulk of stats (traditional and even most of Sabermetrics).

    Aside from the Three True Outcomes, Sabermetrics most important stat is WAR (Wins Above Replacement). Which you casually ignore. Can't say I blame you, as its clear that Ruth wins that one over Williams hands down.

    It's not even close regarding Williams vs Ruth. Williams was regional. Ruth was national. Actually, Ruth was global. As he had the good fortune to tour Japan in the early '30's, and he was well recognized by the baseball crazy Japanese fans. Ted Williams could walk down most streets post retirement and, aside from NE and FL region where he fished, most non-MLB fans under a certain age had no idea who he was. Whereas pretty much everyone in his day knew who Babe Ruth was. Don't underestimate the impact that one player made on the game itself. To put it in modern terms, Ruth was the Michael Jordan of his day. If Michael Jordan walks down most streets anywhere in the US, everyone over the age of 14 will instantly recognize him. It certainly helped that he played into the internet age, did commercials, etc. But it also helps that he won 6 NBA Titles. That's what winning tends to do, helps an athlete stay relevant and remembered. People remember the great ones, especially when they: 1. Win. 2. Leave an impact on their sport where they become larger than the sport itself, bigger than the game itself and transcend it by passing into the collective consciousness of the nation.

    Really can't say that about Ted Williams at all. Notice: Simon/Garfunkle's Mrs. Robinson didn't ask "Where have you gone Ted Williams?" No one noticed he was even missing. At his final home game when he hit his final home run in his last AB, the park wasn't even half filled.

    When Babe Ruth died August 16, 1948 "at age 53, tens of thousands of fans came to pay respects as his body laid in state for two days at the original Yankee Stadium, dubbed “The House That Ruth Built.” People jammed the streets around St. Patrick’s Cathedral during his funeral."

    "Considered by many to be the greatest player in baseball history, the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox legend set home run records — 60 in one season, 714 in his career — that stood for decades, and he remains one of the sport’s defining figures. If someone knows one name in baseball, it’s likely his: the Sultan of Swat, the Bambino, the Babe, or, officially, George Herman (Babe) Ruth."--NY Post Aug. 16, 2018 (on 70th anniversary of the Babe's death).

    Outside old time MLB fans, people have very little collective memory of who Ted Williams was on a national level. Years of losing seasons will tend to do that.

    Which player revolutionized MLB and turned it into a more HR/offensive game? Babe Ruth

    Which player put more fans into the seats so that they started increasing their ball parks seating capacities? Babe Ruth

    70 years after his death, which player is STILL, the immediate face and symbol of the team he became identified with? Babe Ruth

    Williams hasn't been BOS face of the franchise since his retirement in '60. On a collective national conscious level (e.g. popular culture, iconic, indelible mark upon society at large etc), if he was all that, then he certainly would be instantly recalled today in 2020.

  176. The most iStevey thing, lurking unexpectedly in a discussion about movie posters used as decoration:
    Are world maps (especially classy historical reproductions) the male equivalent of those pseudo-totalitarian command signs women apparently need (“live, laugh, love,” etc)?

    • Replies: @anon
    Are world maps (especially classy historical reproductions) the male equivalent of those pseudo-totalitarian command signs women apparently need (“live, laugh, love,” etc)?

    Dude, don't be harshing on the girls affirmations, 'k?

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/21/10/da/2110daf4e0edcecd0b0139a52753c944.jpg
  177. @Sparkon
    Yogi Berra won 10 World Series rings, more than any other player. That makes him The Best Baseball Player of All Time, in that particular category.

    World Series Rings (championships)

    10 Berra
    9 DiMaggio,
    8 Dickey, Rizutto, Crosseti, Gherig
    7 Bauer, Mantle, Ruth...

    Yogi Berra had a big strike zone. He swung at everything, but didn't strike out, or walk much. He was a reliable RBI man in the middle of the Yankee line-up for over a decade, often hitting cleanup behind Mickey Mantle.

    Yogi Berra - Lifetime OBP .348, Slugging .482

    Bill Russell of the Boston Celtics won 11 NBA championships, but of course neither of these guys is/was a Mexican.

    Casey Stengel thought he was a genius at switching lineups around, although he probably was just going senile, but he knew enough to write 3 Mantle and 4 Berra on his lineup card everyday, so whatever else he did on whim usually didn’t hurt too much.

    • Replies: @Sparkon
    Yes indeed. It was easy being a Yankee fan with a team like that. The Yankees fired Stengel in 1960 when he was 70:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTbz8YPG6R4

    Stengel and Mantle testify to Congress about anti-trust laws and baseball



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_BveD5KgWg


    Stengel: "You ought to be home and raising more children..."
  178. @Neuday
    Speedy Gonzalez was very short.

    As was Go-go Gomez.

  179. @JohnPlywood
    Multiple genetic studies prove you wrong.

    https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/366/6466/708/F1.large.jpg?width=800&height=600&carousel=1

    A small number of men can drastically alter the genetic makeup of an entire country by impregnating a large number of females, anyway.

    Curious, which study is that from?

  180. @Steve Sailer
    Casey Stengel thought he was a genius at switching lineups around, although he probably was just going senile, but he knew enough to write 3 Mantle and 4 Berra on his lineup card everyday, so whatever else he did on whim usually didn't hurt too much.

    Yes indeed. It was easy being a Yankee fan with a team like that. The Yankees fired Stengel in 1960 when he was 70:

    Stengel and Mantle testify to Congress about anti-trust laws and baseball

    Stengel: “You ought to be home and raising more children…”

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "It was easy being a Yankee fan with a team like that."

    And it was harder being a BOS fan with only the Kid and also rans for the second half of his career. 1920 (the year that NY got Babe Ruth) up to 1964, they won 29 Pennants and 20 WS. That's roughly two generations of winning.

    "The Yankees fired Stengel in 1960 when he was 70"

    That is one, but that's not the direct reason he was fired. [HOF PHIL M Connie Mack was 68 when he won the '30 WS] Stengel was fired because of Bill Mazeroski's walkoff HR vs Ralph Terry in game 7. Had Stengel started Whitey Ford in game 1 vs PIT, Ford would've been able to start game 4 and been available to start game 7. He proved he could handle PIT's lineup by tossing two complete games (game 3 and 6) and threw two shutouts by scores of 10-0 and 12-0.

    Game 7 demonstrates just how far off the platooning, the hunches, multiple use of pitchers had gotten. He went through five different pitchers before bringing in Ralph Terry in the 9th. Meanwhile, he had Terry warming up (just in case) since inning 3. So for six innings, he had him pitching in the bullpen until the ninth inning.

    "That game (Game 7), Casey had me warming up a half-dozen times. I supposed to be a long man, and I got up the moment Turley ran into trouble in the first inning. Then I kept getting up nearly every inning....But Casey kept bringing in someone else.....I nearly pitched a whole ballgame before I came in that afternoon."--Ralph Terry, from Bombers: An Oral History of the New York Yankees by Richard Lally

  181. @J.Ross
    The most iStevey thing, lurking unexpectedly in a discussion about movie posters used as decoration:
    Are world maps (especially classy historical reproductions) the male equivalent of those pseudo-totalitarian command signs women apparently need ("live, laugh, love," etc)?

    Are world maps (especially classy historical reproductions) the male equivalent of those pseudo-totalitarian command signs women apparently need (“live, laugh, love,” etc)?

    Dude, don’t be harshing on the girls affirmations, ‘k?

  182. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    Today I stopped for lunch at a barbecue truck in Olathe (Kansas; there’s one in Colorado too) and noticed that at the corner of the station was a crew digging and putting in underground cable of some sort. They had one of those tracked directional Ditch Witch machines and a small excavator and at first I thought these were black guys running it, but at closer inspection, they were extremely dark indios , darker than pure blooded Mayans or Aztecs, whose features were not negroid at all, and they were speaking what I recognized as Spanish, but with an accent I wasn’t familiar with. (I was a hard core short wave listener as a kid and am pretty good at identifying languages, plus I took three years of junior high Spanish, at which I never was worth a shit to begin with). With a quick look at a Spanish phrase guide on my cell phone, , I came up with how to ask where they were from: ¿De dónde eres?

    “Me-hi-co”.

    Now Olathe is positively crawling with Mexicans and other hispanophone mesoamericans, almost none of whom are quite as dark as all these guys. I’ve seen this company’s crews in various parts of Johnson County, and remarkably, all its employees are damn near identical in actual skin tone: darker than the average negro you’ll find in Arthur Bryant’s on any given day, but of a little more reddish-orangish hue perhaps, and with somewhat more oriental features, but not as ugly as Aztecs, and not congoid at all. No whites, no mestizos, no negroes or mulattoes or Asians. To a man, and yes all men, every one of them this exact color.

    Now if such a crew-this outfit must have thirty or forty men-was all white a stink would be made.
    The only thing I can figure is that this company must only hire out of one village or tribal area in Mexico, which consists of pure indios, they aren’t mestizos at all. There isn’t a Spaniard or a Czech or a polack or a kraut in the woodpile on a single one of them, not in at least seven or eight generations. They’re as racially homogenous as Japanese. even the dot-Indians in a thoroughly casted-out IT department evince more variety in features an skin tone than this bunch.

    Obviously, they are not discriminating just against nasty old honky white us. They are discriminating against blacks, Chinese, dot-Indians, feather-Indians of any other tribe, mestizos, mulattoes, and Jews..Jews, I’m telling you, they don’t hire Jews! It’s worse than Golfocaust. It’s Fibercaust!!

    But no one is going to give a shit.

    It’s not anti-racist, it’s anti-White.

  183. @Sparkon
    Yes indeed. It was easy being a Yankee fan with a team like that. The Yankees fired Stengel in 1960 when he was 70:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTbz8YPG6R4

    Stengel and Mantle testify to Congress about anti-trust laws and baseball



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_BveD5KgWg


    Stengel: "You ought to be home and raising more children..."

    “It was easy being a Yankee fan with a team like that.”

    And it was harder being a BOS fan with only the Kid and also rans for the second half of his career. 1920 (the year that NY got Babe Ruth) up to 1964, they won 29 Pennants and 20 WS. That’s roughly two generations of winning.

    “The Yankees fired Stengel in 1960 when he was 70”

    That is one, but that’s not the direct reason he was fired. [HOF PHIL M Connie Mack was 68 when he won the ’30 WS] Stengel was fired because of Bill Mazeroski’s walkoff HR vs Ralph Terry in game 7. Had Stengel started Whitey Ford in game 1 vs PIT, Ford would’ve been able to start game 4 and been available to start game 7. He proved he could handle PIT’s lineup by tossing two complete games (game 3 and 6) and threw two shutouts by scores of 10-0 and 12-0.

    Game 7 demonstrates just how far off the platooning, the hunches, multiple use of pitchers had gotten. He went through five different pitchers before bringing in Ralph Terry in the 9th. Meanwhile, he had Terry warming up (just in case) since inning 3. So for six innings, he had him pitching in the bullpen until the ninth inning.

    “That game (Game 7), Casey had me warming up a half-dozen times. I supposed to be a long man, and I got up the moment Turley ran into trouble in the first inning. Then I kept getting up nearly every inning….But Casey kept bringing in someone else…..I nearly pitched a whole ballgame before I came in that afternoon.”–Ralph Terry, from Bombers: An Oral History of the New York Yankees by Richard Lally

  184. @Sparkon
    Yogi Berra won 10 World Series rings, more than any other player. That makes him The Best Baseball Player of All Time, in that particular category.

    World Series Rings (championships)

    10 Berra
    9 DiMaggio,
    8 Dickey, Rizutto, Crosseti, Gherig
    7 Bauer, Mantle, Ruth...

    Yogi Berra had a big strike zone. He swung at everything, but didn't strike out, or walk much. He was a reliable RBI man in the middle of the Yankee line-up for over a decade, often hitting cleanup behind Mickey Mantle.

    Yogi Berra - Lifetime OBP .348, Slugging .482

    Bill Russell of the Boston Celtics won 11 NBA championships, but of course neither of these guys is/was a Mexican.

    “Yogi Berra won 10 World Series rings, more than any other player. That makes him The Best Baseball Player of All Time, in that particular category.”

    You changed the argument to bring in a red herring. The original point was Ruth vs Williams. When the bulk of evidence clearly show that Ruth was the greater hitter, greater player, and had the most impact of ANY player ever in MLB in the 20th century, suddenly Yogi comes into the picture?

    Wait. What?

    Ruth vs Williams was the argument. On my side, is history, and the bulk of stats (traditional and even most of Sabermetrics).

    Aside from the Three True Outcomes, Sabermetrics most important stat is WAR (Wins Above Replacement). Which you casually ignore. Can’t say I blame you, as its clear that Ruth wins that one over Williams hands down.

    It’s not even close regarding Williams vs Ruth. Williams was regional. Ruth was national. Actually, Ruth was global. As he had the good fortune to tour Japan in the early ’30’s, and he was well recognized by the baseball crazy Japanese fans. Ted Williams could walk down most streets post retirement and, aside from NE and FL region where he fished, most non-MLB fans under a certain age had no idea who he was. Whereas pretty much everyone in his day knew who Babe Ruth was. Don’t underestimate the impact that one player made on the game itself. To put it in modern terms, Ruth was the Michael Jordan of his day. If Michael Jordan walks down most streets anywhere in the US, everyone over the age of 14 will instantly recognize him. It certainly helped that he played into the internet age, did commercials, etc. But it also helps that he won 6 NBA Titles. That’s what winning tends to do, helps an athlete stay relevant and remembered. People remember the great ones, especially when they: 1. Win. 2. Leave an impact on their sport where they become larger than the sport itself, bigger than the game itself and transcend it by passing into the collective consciousness of the nation.

    Really can’t say that about Ted Williams at all. Notice: Simon/Garfunkle’s Mrs. Robinson didn’t ask “Where have you gone Ted Williams?” No one noticed he was even missing. At his final home game when he hit his final home run in his last AB, the park wasn’t even half filled.

    When Babe Ruth died August 16, 1948 “at age 53, tens of thousands of fans came to pay respects as his body laid in state for two days at the original Yankee Stadium, dubbed “The House That Ruth Built.” People jammed the streets around St. Patrick’s Cathedral during his funeral.”

    “Considered by many to be the greatest player in baseball history, the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox legend set home run records — 60 in one season, 714 in his career — that stood for decades, and he remains one of the sport’s defining figures. If someone knows one name in baseball, it’s likely his: the Sultan of Swat, the Bambino, the Babe, or, officially, George Herman (Babe) Ruth.”–NY Post Aug. 16, 2018 (on 70th anniversary of the Babe’s death).

    Outside old time MLB fans, people have very little collective memory of who Ted Williams was on a national level. Years of losing seasons will tend to do that.

    Which player revolutionized MLB and turned it into a more HR/offensive game? Babe Ruth

    Which player put more fans into the seats so that they started increasing their ball parks seating capacities? Babe Ruth

    70 years after his death, which player is STILL, the immediate face and symbol of the team he became identified with? Babe Ruth

    Williams hasn’t been BOS face of the franchise since his retirement in ’60. On a collective national conscious level (e.g. popular culture, iconic, indelible mark upon society at large etc), if he was all that, then he certainly would be instantly recalled today in 2020.

    • Replies: @Sparkon

    You changed the argument to bring in a red herring.
     
    Actually, you're the guilty party in that regard several times over. You've continued to change the subject and ignore or dodge Steve's original, accurate observation that Ted Williams is "... probably the best baseball hitter of all time."

    I happen to agree with Steve because his argument is supported by the facts found in the most relevant statistic - career on-base percentage. #1 on that list is Ted Williams, so he is the best hitter in the history of major league baseball, based on the most relevant stat.

    Of course there are other stats with different players holding down the #1 position. In the measure of a hitter's batting productivity compiled as his slugging percentage, Babe Ruth's lofty #1 spot on that all-time list supports anyone who says:

    Babe Ruth was the greatest slugger in the history of baseball.

  185. @anon
    If Ted Williams head was successfully preserved at Alcor long enough and it was possible to thaw part of it out and clone a body and then the head was properly defrozen and surgically bonded to the body and the procedure was a success and his reflexes and eyesight were fully restored and baseball was still being played ... would he bat left or right handed?

    And I think that says it all about Ted Williams. IF he’s instantly recalled for anything, it’s for that weird freakish thing about his dead head, crypto-cryogenics, etc.

  186. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "Yogi Berra won 10 World Series rings, more than any other player. That makes him The Best Baseball Player of All Time, in that particular category."

    You changed the argument to bring in a red herring. The original point was Ruth vs Williams. When the bulk of evidence clearly show that Ruth was the greater hitter, greater player, and had the most impact of ANY player ever in MLB in the 20th century, suddenly Yogi comes into the picture?

    Wait. What?

    Ruth vs Williams was the argument. On my side, is history, and the bulk of stats (traditional and even most of Sabermetrics).

    Aside from the Three True Outcomes, Sabermetrics most important stat is WAR (Wins Above Replacement). Which you casually ignore. Can't say I blame you, as its clear that Ruth wins that one over Williams hands down.

    It's not even close regarding Williams vs Ruth. Williams was regional. Ruth was national. Actually, Ruth was global. As he had the good fortune to tour Japan in the early '30's, and he was well recognized by the baseball crazy Japanese fans. Ted Williams could walk down most streets post retirement and, aside from NE and FL region where he fished, most non-MLB fans under a certain age had no idea who he was. Whereas pretty much everyone in his day knew who Babe Ruth was. Don't underestimate the impact that one player made on the game itself. To put it in modern terms, Ruth was the Michael Jordan of his day. If Michael Jordan walks down most streets anywhere in the US, everyone over the age of 14 will instantly recognize him. It certainly helped that he played into the internet age, did commercials, etc. But it also helps that he won 6 NBA Titles. That's what winning tends to do, helps an athlete stay relevant and remembered. People remember the great ones, especially when they: 1. Win. 2. Leave an impact on their sport where they become larger than the sport itself, bigger than the game itself and transcend it by passing into the collective consciousness of the nation.

    Really can't say that about Ted Williams at all. Notice: Simon/Garfunkle's Mrs. Robinson didn't ask "Where have you gone Ted Williams?" No one noticed he was even missing. At his final home game when he hit his final home run in his last AB, the park wasn't even half filled.

    When Babe Ruth died August 16, 1948 "at age 53, tens of thousands of fans came to pay respects as his body laid in state for two days at the original Yankee Stadium, dubbed “The House That Ruth Built.” People jammed the streets around St. Patrick’s Cathedral during his funeral."

    "Considered by many to be the greatest player in baseball history, the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox legend set home run records — 60 in one season, 714 in his career — that stood for decades, and he remains one of the sport’s defining figures. If someone knows one name in baseball, it’s likely his: the Sultan of Swat, the Bambino, the Babe, or, officially, George Herman (Babe) Ruth."--NY Post Aug. 16, 2018 (on 70th anniversary of the Babe's death).

    Outside old time MLB fans, people have very little collective memory of who Ted Williams was on a national level. Years of losing seasons will tend to do that.

    Which player revolutionized MLB and turned it into a more HR/offensive game? Babe Ruth

    Which player put more fans into the seats so that they started increasing their ball parks seating capacities? Babe Ruth

    70 years after his death, which player is STILL, the immediate face and symbol of the team he became identified with? Babe Ruth

    Williams hasn't been BOS face of the franchise since his retirement in '60. On a collective national conscious level (e.g. popular culture, iconic, indelible mark upon society at large etc), if he was all that, then he certainly would be instantly recalled today in 2020.

    You changed the argument to bring in a red herring.

    Actually, you’re the guilty party in that regard several times over. You’ve continued to change the subject and ignore or dodge Steve’s original, accurate observation that Ted Williams is “… probably the best baseball hitter of all time.”

    I happen to agree with Steve because his argument is supported by the facts found in the most relevant statistic – career on-base percentage. #1 on that list is Ted Williams, so he is the best hitter in the history of major league baseball, based on the most relevant stat.

    Of course there are other stats with different players holding down the #1 position. In the measure of a hitter’s batting productivity compiled as his slugging percentage, Babe Ruth’s lofty #1 spot on that all-time list supports anyone who says:

    Babe Ruth was the greatest slugger in the history of baseball.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Sabermetrics most important stat regarding individual players is WAR. In that category, Williams failed and Ruth succeeded. Steve’s original observation was “Probably” as in “perhaps”. The more relevant point is that someone like Williams can be compared to Babe Ruth at all is high praise for any player. One could also make the case that Lou Gehrig was as great a hitter as Williams.

    On base percentage, while it is one factor, does not present an accurate picture of the greatest HITTER of all time. For that, you would to factor in Batting Average. Yes, Williams career BA is two points higher than Ruth’s. But Ty Cobbs BA is 23 points higher than Williams, as are Hornsby, Jackson, and O’Douls.

    Admittedly, stats tend to be selective. OBP does not include HR, which is a part of three true outcomes of Sabermetrics. And in that category Ruth is nearly 200 HRs ahead of Williams. It does include BB, which Babe Ruth also has more of as well. AND, Ruth has the highest OPS (which includes On base percentage) of any MLB player. After all, if you hit HRs you’re not getting on base per se. but are you hitting the ball? And quite well at that? Like, duh.

    For the entire 20th Century, Babe Ruth was considered the greatest hitter, period. When the term hitter includes HRs (part of Sabermetrics three true outcomes) as well as RBIs and BA.

    By traditional stats, the only one where Williams leads Ruth is in BA, both in career and in single season best. Williams won 6 BA titles to Ruth’s 1, and is the last player to hit over .400. Even here, however, Williams didn’t set a record with his .406 BA. Whereas Ruth’s 60 HRs in 1927 stood for 34 yrs. Williams never hit more than 46 HRs in a single season.

    By most every available metric, Ruth comes out on top of Williams. He changed the game from small ball to HR and offense based as it remains today. One man was above the sport, and it was Ruth, the original GOAT.

  187. @syonredux
    Sometimes you win the genetic lottery...

    Lynda Carter with her sister and her Mestiza mother:


    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/51/32/59/513259ec22198bd2b1a8d17e6e53c4be.jpg

    https://bodyheightweight.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/lynda-carter-family-mother-Juana-Cordova-Carter.jpg

    Clearly, Lynda is expressing more of the European side of her ancestry....


    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8pkozpNA1OU/UG9DGyB_N9I/AAAAAAAAJzk/yj4A1Uk_yjI/s1600/lynda_carter_wonder_cleavage_wbxiNRy.jpg

    Ah yes. I used to watch the 70’s Wonder Woman as a kid. I’ve been rewtching it on Me-TV and am noticing a lot of things I never picked up on when I was little. One thing being that it’s insane how attractive Lynda Carter was.

  188. @Sparkon

    You changed the argument to bring in a red herring.
     
    Actually, you're the guilty party in that regard several times over. You've continued to change the subject and ignore or dodge Steve's original, accurate observation that Ted Williams is "... probably the best baseball hitter of all time."

    I happen to agree with Steve because his argument is supported by the facts found in the most relevant statistic - career on-base percentage. #1 on that list is Ted Williams, so he is the best hitter in the history of major league baseball, based on the most relevant stat.

    Of course there are other stats with different players holding down the #1 position. In the measure of a hitter's batting productivity compiled as his slugging percentage, Babe Ruth's lofty #1 spot on that all-time list supports anyone who says:

    Babe Ruth was the greatest slugger in the history of baseball.

    Sabermetrics most important stat regarding individual players is WAR. In that category, Williams failed and Ruth succeeded. Steve’s original observation was “Probably” as in “perhaps”. The more relevant point is that someone like Williams can be compared to Babe Ruth at all is high praise for any player. One could also make the case that Lou Gehrig was as great a hitter as Williams.

    On base percentage, while it is one factor, does not present an accurate picture of the greatest HITTER of all time. For that, you would to factor in Batting Average. Yes, Williams career BA is two points higher than Ruth’s. But Ty Cobbs BA is 23 points higher than Williams, as are Hornsby, Jackson, and O’Douls.

    Admittedly, stats tend to be selective. OBP does not include HR, which is a part of three true outcomes of Sabermetrics. And in that category Ruth is nearly 200 HRs ahead of Williams. It does include BB, which Babe Ruth also has more of as well. AND, Ruth has the highest OPS (which includes On base percentage) of any MLB player. After all, if you hit HRs you’re not getting on base per se. but are you hitting the ball? And quite well at that? Like, duh.

    For the entire 20th Century, Babe Ruth was considered the greatest hitter, period. When the term hitter includes HRs (part of Sabermetrics three true outcomes) as well as RBIs and BA.

    By traditional stats, the only one where Williams leads Ruth is in BA, both in career and in single season best. Williams won 6 BA titles to Ruth’s 1, and is the last player to hit over .400. Even here, however, Williams didn’t set a record with his .406 BA. Whereas Ruth’s 60 HRs in 1927 stood for 34 yrs. Williams never hit more than 46 HRs in a single season.

    By most every available metric, Ruth comes out on top of Williams. He changed the game from small ball to HR and offense based as it remains today. One man was above the sport, and it was Ruth, the original GOAT.

  189. @Jim Christian

    Golf is not an athletic sport.
     
    Nonsense.

    You disagree with yourself?

    • Replies: @Jim Christian

    You disagree with yourself?
     
    I disagree with the notion that golf is no sport. I shot 91 on a fairly long course yesterday, walking and pulling my own bag at 6300 yards, short for PGA Men's tour, about equal to Senior Tour/LPGA standards. It's a slog. There was a little betting going on, it's easy to get distracted and you need to be in shape to do it. Golf is an athletic endeavor that takes place over hours and hours with dozens of complex decisions to make on every hole. At my level, bets make it a little more interesting. At the PGA Tour level, the courses are longer, more brutal and the stakes far higher of course, with mental pressure equal at least to that felt by NFL QBs at the Super Bowl and for ten times the duration, every weekend Thursday-Sunday. I suggest a read of A Good Walk Spoiled, by Feinstein. Hell of a read. Steve could expound even more and in more meaningful fashion. Sailerman shoulda been at CBS or Golf Magazine.

    Not a sport. Right.
  190. @Dissident
    You disagree with yourself?

    You disagree with yourself?

    I disagree with the notion that golf is no sport. I shot 91 on a fairly long course yesterday, walking and pulling my own bag at 6300 yards, short for PGA Men’s tour, about equal to Senior Tour/LPGA standards. It’s a slog. There was a little betting going on, it’s easy to get distracted and you need to be in shape to do it. Golf is an athletic endeavor that takes place over hours and hours with dozens of complex decisions to make on every hole. At my level, bets make it a little more interesting. At the PGA Tour level, the courses are longer, more brutal and the stakes far higher of course, with mental pressure equal at least to that felt by NFL QBs at the Super Bowl and for ten times the duration, every weekend Thursday-Sunday. I suggest a read of A Good Walk Spoiled, by Feinstein. Hell of a read. Steve could expound even more and in more meaningful fashion. Sailerman shoulda been at CBS or Golf Magazine.

    Not a sport. Right.

    • Replies: @Dissident
    Thank you for replying.

    What had prompted my inquiry was noticing that your "Disagree" was actually registered not under iffen's statement that, "Golf is not an athletic sport." but rather under your own reply to said statement of "Nonsense". Certainly by now, at least, there would appear to be little doubt that this was simply an error on your part.

    On the matter of iffen's statement, since I have caused you to have gone to the trouble of elaborating upon your response to it in some detail, I feel that I now should perhaps followup in some detail of my own concerning the same. Note, first of all, that iffen had specifically written that, "Golf is not an athletic sport." And from the context, there would appear to be little doubt but that he meant athletic in a physical sense. Now, I know that while you seemed to focus mostly on the mentally challenging aspects of the game, you certainly mentioned physically challenging ones as well. And I would not dispute any of what you wrote. Nonetheless, I think that even you would acknowledge that it is not unreasonable for one not to think of golf as typically athletic-- in the physical sense that the word is mostly used to denote-- in quite the same way that one thinks of a sport such as football or basketball as such.

    That said, I find it entirely plausible that it would be quite reasonable and even quite correct to argue that people should be more informed and aware of (even) the physically exerting aspects of golf, and less dismissive of them.

    At any rate, given iffen's final statement that golf, is merely an anti-Semitic cudgel wielded by WASPS., I wouldn't take any part of his comment too seriously.

  191. @Jim Christian

    You disagree with yourself?
     
    I disagree with the notion that golf is no sport. I shot 91 on a fairly long course yesterday, walking and pulling my own bag at 6300 yards, short for PGA Men's tour, about equal to Senior Tour/LPGA standards. It's a slog. There was a little betting going on, it's easy to get distracted and you need to be in shape to do it. Golf is an athletic endeavor that takes place over hours and hours with dozens of complex decisions to make on every hole. At my level, bets make it a little more interesting. At the PGA Tour level, the courses are longer, more brutal and the stakes far higher of course, with mental pressure equal at least to that felt by NFL QBs at the Super Bowl and for ten times the duration, every weekend Thursday-Sunday. I suggest a read of A Good Walk Spoiled, by Feinstein. Hell of a read. Steve could expound even more and in more meaningful fashion. Sailerman shoulda been at CBS or Golf Magazine.

    Not a sport. Right.

    Thank you for replying.

    What had prompted my inquiry was noticing that your “Disagree” was actually registered not under iffen’s statement that, “Golf is not an athletic sport.” but rather under your own reply to said statement of “Nonsense”. Certainly by now, at least, there would appear to be little doubt that this was simply an error on your part.

    On the matter of iffen’s statement, since I have caused you to have gone to the trouble of elaborating upon your response to it in some detail, I feel that I now should perhaps followup in some detail of my own concerning the same. Note, first of all, that iffen had specifically written that, “Golf is not an athletic sport.” And from the context, there would appear to be little doubt but that he meant athletic in a physical sense. Now, I know that while you seemed to focus mostly on the mentally challenging aspects of the game, you certainly mentioned physically challenging ones as well. And I would not dispute any of what you wrote. Nonetheless, I think that even you would acknowledge that it is not unreasonable for one not to think of golf as typically athletic— in the physical sense that the word is mostly used to denote– in quite the same way that one thinks of a sport such as football or basketball as such.

    That said, I find it entirely plausible that it would be quite reasonable and even quite correct to argue that people should be more informed and aware of (even) the physically exerting aspects of golf, and less dismissive of them.

    At any rate, given iffen’s final statement that golf, is merely an anti-Semitic cudgel wielded by WASPS., I wouldn’t take any part of his comment too seriously.

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