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Why Is Philadelphia Not Much Like New York City?
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No doubt people in Philadelphia would sharply disagree with my ill-informed prejudice, but I have always tended to think of Philadelphia as being like New York City, only less so.

But through April 6th at least, Philadelphia hasn’t been much like New York City when it comes to coronavirus fatalities. Philly has a death rate of 2 per 100,000 compared to 25 in NYC.

I presume these statistics are likely to converge, but how fast? Are these differences just due to random initial events, or are there actual major differences that will remain important in the long run?

In general, pattern recognition has been difficult throughout this crisis, with no end of surprises.

 
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  1. Neither a New Yorker nor a clear-eyed objective Martian observer would ever confuse NYC with Philadelphia. No disrespect to either place: they are simply not alike, except in being large Northeastern cities.

    • Replies: @Kibernetika
    Philly blows ;) That's how we'd say it back in the day. Agree that they're very different.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Except that philly isn’t particularly large.
    , @Trinity
    Philly and Baltimore are like outsiders in the Boston-Washington D.C. corridor. Neither are glamorous, cosmopolitan cities like NYC, nor do they share anything in common with stuffy Boston or the political capital Washington D.C. Instead of Philly being like a smaller NYC, it is more like a larger Baltimore or Baltimore is a smaller version of Philly. Most people think of Manhattan only when they think of NYC, Philly might have something in common with working class Brooklyn, but not Manhattan.

    Back to the article. I heard either last night or maybe the night before that the coronahoaxers aka the (((media))) are predicting Philly, Baltimore and the District of Criminals could be the next "hot spots" in the country. What is the death count in Boston btw? All these cities located in the BosWash corridor are old school cities built with dense populations, people in row houses right next to one another, the newer breed of cities that line the Sunbelt are more spread out, at least spread out when compared to cities like Philly or NYC. So IF we are to believe the coronahoaxers aka the (media) than it only makes sense to keep the narrative going by saying all these old densely populated cities that line the Eastern Seaboard are going to be the new "hot spot" for the virus.

  2. The outbreak in the NYC area started and to a lesser extent remains most widespread among Orthodox Jews, who were then the Patient Zeros in several other states (e.g. here in Massachusetts). There are relatively few Orthodox Jews, skiers and Tom Hankses in Philly. (Although one of the latter did have an Oscar-winning star turn in Philadelphia).

    • Agree: BannedHipster, Pheasant
    • Replies: @Andrew

    The outbreak in the NYC area started and to a lesser extent remains most widespread among Orthodox Jews, who were then the Patient Zeros in several other states (e.g. here in Massachusetts). There are relatively few Orthodox Jews, skiers and Tom Hankses in Philly.
     
    You will never in a million years guess what community started the spread around Philadelphia and who lives in some of the hardest hit areas (Lower Merion, Overbrook, Cheltenham, Abington) where over 0.5% are already infected.
  3. One is Babel. It enjoys being Babel. Babel is its persona.

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Anonymouse
    not really OT

    Joker the movie is visually a good representation of the NYCscape. With liberal borrowings from the King of Comedy and the white dude that shot up 4 young blacks in a subway car, and the Adam Sandler gag about promising not to look while he washed your grandmother, the hero is life-damaged through no fault of his own. The degree of mean-spiritedness that is assigned to the folks Joker works with is not very high, just coarse. There is no denouement to the movie, at the end Jocker seems to be in a lunatic asylum. A friend, an admirer of Joker, explained away the lack of a denouement by pointing out that the movie is a prequel therefore does not require one. The King of Comedy's denouement was Rupert Pupkin the worst comic in the world actually knocking the audience dead on TV and becoming the new King of comedy.

    Can it be that there is no denouement in history? Speaking for myself, coping, I am struck by the oddness of this moment in history. The permanent re-ordering of a good deal of work hitherto done in office aggregations to Internet connectivity is likely. There is a 66 story building being built right next to our older apartment house. As the city (Austin) has decreed an end to construction, I believe the builders are winding down this early stage about 6 months into the project with the cement walls in place going down about 4 storys and the last of the fill being removed. The locals have not been informed whether said 66 story skyscaper will be offices or residences. The city is semed with skyscrapers, office buildings and residential, the previous tallest a 55 story residential bldg. There is a 44 story residential tower built with Chinese money a Chinese friend of mine told me. Last time I drove past it about 2 months ago, none of the balconies sported furniture. By analogy I would assume that the next door project is residential. The office buildings dont have balconies. No traffic no sirens. 6 deaths so far. >400 infected at last count.

  4. What I found interesting about NY is that Westchester, Suffolk, and Nassau Counties have higher cases per capita than NYC does.

    NYC 910.5 cases per 100,000
    Nassau 1224,4
    Suffolk 1045.8
    Westchester 1528.1

    Philly is 254.6, but this is not unusual. DC is only 176.9.

    • Replies: @Anon
    A lot of Nassau, Suffolk, and Westchester takes the train (LIRR) into town to go to work. They are on the train for a longer ride also. Many have to get off the train and hop on another subway once in town, and repeat the process in reverse on the way home. I imagine just the turnstiles alone, much less the seats, handles, close contact with other passenges while on the train, or waiting on a bench for another definitely made a contribution really early on before we were acutely aware of the severity. Just plopping down in a seat where someone just sat is fraught with 'pozzibilities.'
    , @another fred
    Those counties are full of people who could afford to travel. According to this article NYC's corona virus came from Europe, probably brought back by returning Americans.

    https://dnyuz.com/2020/04/08/most-new-york-coronavirus-cases-came-from-europe-genomes-show/
    , @Neoconned
    Maybe more international tourists & Chinese in NYC? New Yorkers being bigger international travelers perhaps?

    Have a relative who lived in Philly for a few years.....from what i was told more of a car culture in Philly once you get away from the city center.
    , @ls0928
    As I noted in another thread, Rockland County has the highest rate per 100k (1,981 / 100k, according to the NY Times as of this morning) , with Westchester next at 1,640. So it's a fair surmise that Rockland has the highest rate in the entire country.

    This is largely due to the Hasidics, who can't be bothered to do anything socially responsible or normal.

    Contrast that with the stories of Brazilian and Central American gangs enforcing quarantines. Even they have more of a sense of societal good.
  5. anon[271] • Disclaimer says:

    Send every American under 65 a mask in the mail and have them go back to work by the end of April, if not sooner.

    Include laundering instructions for reuse.

    From here on any benefit of quarantine has passed the point of diminishing returns. More young people will die of alcoholism and suicide due to the economic fallout than elderly would be saved by maintaining the quarantine. Masks have been demonstrated effective in Asia and explain why the virus has virtually skipped over their countries while wrecking havoc on mask-esqueing Western countries.

    Perhaps 2% of Americans are already seropositive for the virus, meaning 6 million have been infection, of those it’s killed 0.2%. The flu has a case fatality rate of 0.1%. It’s time to move on.

    • Agree: JosephB, Kratoklastes
    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    anon, An aquaintance's son, in his late twenties, took his life yesterday. We are heartbroken for his family. No funeral. No Mass. That is sad for me. He had some emotional problems, but this whole lockdown, no friends, no work may have pushed him over the edge. Stay safe.
    , @OscarWildeLoveChild
    Could not agree more. Masks, social distancing and modified, reasonable quarantines of the elderly, as necessary. It's completely retarded that we have shut down the entire nation of something much less lethal than the Spanish flu of 100 years ago.
    , @Clyde
    Masks are key but are considered un-manly by men. At least by young men I see. Great analysis and end game solution. To which I will add hand washing with soap whenever you have been touching "strange". At work and when out shopping. Lets say I had to enter 4 retail establishments yesterday. I do not touch my face and when I get home I wash me hands. And I did wear a mask for the benefit of store personnel. In my local Staples the staff is all black. Half wore masks. There is a white guy computer nerdish who was unmasked when I went there ten days ago. I think furloughed due to lack of store traffic.
  6. NYC has a lot more Asians. Including people who presumably traveled from Wu Flu central, “Bat City” Wuhan to NYC.

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto. It is what Detroit aspired to be but could not become, the true Wakanda. BLACK in all senses of the word. No Asian would go there and expect to make it out alive. Its a WorldStarHipHop city.

    Its like Africa. Chinese there don’t associate with Africans so they might as well be on another planet.

    • Agree: Jack Armstrong, Kylie, ia
    • Disagree: Hamilton was right
    • LOL: mark green
    • Replies: @AceDeuce
    Lots of Asians in the city of Philly, and a huge amount in the Philly 'burbs.
    , @Ed
    Philly’s Chinatown actually has Chinese people living there. Lots of South Asians too, enough of them that blacks bullying them at schools in the city became a major topic.

    Anyway it appears the east coast strain came from Europe.
    , @Jack D

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto.
     
    I assume you haven't been to Philadelphia in many decades, if ever? Philly certainly does have a large black population but it's not like Detroit at all. It has a white mayor. It has gentrified areas, major universities and hospitals, a downtown business district, museums and other tourist attractions, a (formerly) thriving restaurant and bar scene, newly built skyscrapers and residential new construction. It's main train station is (was) heavily used and is not an abandoned ruin like Detroit's. It's more like Chicago than Detroit.
    , @Bill Jones
    "Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto. "

    It's also more Jew, among whom the North Eastern outbreaks initially flourished.

    As with much of life, it's the shtetl not the ghetto that gets ya. But one of them will.
    , @San Fernando Curt

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto...
     
    Country began there. So did Grace Kelly, a scant ninety years ago.

    Advance of civilization depends - totally - on who's doing the advancing.
    , @Anonymous Jew
    Maybe the Blacks kept the Asians out:

    https://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/10/22/philly.school.asian.american.attacks/index.html
  7. I bet it’s the subway. I bet that’s how it spread, with low-paid nursing home attendees and nurses picking it up there and spreading it to the olds they’re in charge of.

    The NYC subway is unlike any other mass transit system in the United States. The Philly thing is like the DC metro or Trimet in Portland or whatever—the answer to a riddle, not serious everyday transportation for a huge portion of a world-class city’s population.

    New York subways are busier, grosser, and better utilized than anything in Philadelphia. They go more places more often, and link more people. I have a hard time imagining a better way to spread a respiratory infection.

    • Replies: @Hail
    Of all the effects of the Great Hysteria Pandemic of 2020, one that an unfortunately large number of people are making is: Public transportation is an extreme health danger and so should be reduced to save lives, or something. (I am not saying you are saying so, but some are; it's not a giant logical leap).

    Given that The Scary New Coronavirus might produce an entirely unremarkable spike-in-seasonal-flu-like death toll, if public transportation suffers from this, it's yet another long-term net loss from the evil beast of CoronaPanic/CoronaHoax.

    , @Mr. Anon
    Everything that progressives love to virtue signal about, and want to foist off on everyone else, they are having to step back from, as they are seen to promote the spread of disease: high-density housing, public transport, reuseable grocery bags. On the other hand, they have a whole load of new social controls to impose on society and wag their fingers about. They can now call you a murderer for going to the grocery store. And they are loving it.
    , @Anonymous Jew
    Many also speculated that it was the elevators, which makes sense to me. Even if you’re a yuppie that can work from home you still need to take the elevator for your weekly run to Trader Joe’s. Stagnant air and buttons could be sufficient for transmission.
    , @Anon87
    What about Chicago? Not as dense as NYC, but the El has just as disgusting cars with obese black males, but not coming up with NYC numbers.

    Density alone doesn't explain things. Ethnicity alone doesn't explain things. How early a city "shut down" (let's be honest, no one has really implemented anything but half assed measures) doesn't seem to explain things. Even if NYC is overcounting deaths, it's hard to figure out exactly why they have fared the worst so far.
  8. Fewer Asians and Orthodox and “elite” hobnobbers, & milder climate

  9. Then there is California, with a current fatality rate of 1.25 per 100,000. Good management, or some demographic anomaly?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Cars, I imagine.
    , @fish
    Distance, as our host mentioned more personal vehicles for transportation, and a populace not completely antisocial at this point.
  10. Population density
    Philadelphia 4,337.3/km²

    The City of NY 10,194/km²
    Manhattan 27,826/km²
    Brooklyn 14,649/km²
    Bronx 13,231/km²
    Queens 8,354/km²

    • Agree: Hibernian
    • Replies: @Known Fact
    Philly's slums are more bombed out and spread out than NYC's crappy but far from Philly-crappy inner-city neighborhoods.
  11. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:

    Raised in NYC, have worked in Philly for 20 years. The population density in Philly is remarkably lower, no real comparable highly-used subway system like NYC or London. Center City itself is small. Philly is laid out like a Midwestern or Western US City, much more drivable, workers more isolated in cars. Also not much International and Corporate/ Political travel relative to NYC or even DC.

    Philly is basically a “town” with a numerically declining population and is eminently more Suburban focused in nature. Never even built a skyscraper until 1980s. Much of its Corporate world moved out to the Western Suburbs in the 1960s. Great place, but very provincial, thrives on not trying to be NYC & DC.

    • Agree: AnonAnon, Testing12
    • Thanks: bomag
    • Replies: @Bemused Reactionary
    Exact opposite history, same observations. Born and raised in Philadelphia, worked in NYC 30 years, lived Manhattan 15 of those, back in Philadelphia suburbs last 15. Completely agree with this summation. In NY my demographic takes the subway all the time, eats out at city restaurants twice a week, lives in a highrise or rides crowded commuter trains for long trips to suburbs, takes subway from train station to office, walks a few blocks for lunch, then repeats in reverse. My demographic in Philly drives to work alone, lives in a house in suburbs, eats out at less-crowded suburban restaurants.

    NY central business district is basically all of Manhattan south of 59th st, in Philly it's about 20 blocks around City Hall. Philly has nothing like the subsidiary, very crowded, business districts like Flushing, Brooklyn Borough Hall/Barclays Center area, Long Island City.

    Vast swaths of North, West, and Southwest Philadelphia is third-world level #Diversity.
    , @Jack D

    Never even built a skyscraper until 1980s.
     
    For someone who has worked in Philly for 20 years, you show remarkable ignorance.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSFS_Building

    Philadelphia at one time had an unwritten "gentleman's agreement", enforced by city planner Edmund Bacon (father of the actor Kevin) that no skyscraper would rise higher than City Hall (548'). But there were plenty of skyscrapers, they were just all 50 floors or less.

    This was finally broken in the '80s by 1 Liberty Place (a Chrysler Building ripoff).
    , @Sam Lowry
    Former New Yorker here--who spent the last 20+ years in Philly. Philly is not as jam-packed as NYC, no US city really is. Sheer density plus a rather good subway system (compared to other US cities it is rather efficient) that much of the population uses are key factors in NYC. Philly is more suburban focused and Center City and the neighborhoods in and around it are just not that crowded. SEPTA (our transit system) is not at all as ubiquitous as the subway is in NYC--far from it. Philly is not a major national or international destination for business or tourism and our immigrant population is not at all as robust as or as proportionally as large as NYC which is super diverse. Queens alone (2M + pop.) is probably one of the most divers counties/areas in the world.

    Steve, you'd be interested to know real estate prices are not at all bad for a large east coast city--even taking into account lower wages. It's possible for a yuppie couple to buy a house in a decent part of town in their 20s. Private school tuition is also much lower than other east coast towns.

    Philly's # of dead as of today is in the 60s--which, while 1 is too many, is rather low. We were expecting a tidal wave of cases by now. Actually, other US cities (e.g. Boston, SF, LA, Seattle, Chicago), while having more than Philly, do not have bad numbers at all at this point.

    At the end of the day, Philly is less crowded, less diverse and more provincial. That helped us in this situation.
    , @Kylie
    Very interesting, thanks.
    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Philly is laid out like a Midwestern or Western US City, much more drivable, workers more isolated in cars. Also not much International and Corporate/ Political travel relative to NYC or even DC.
     
    Since Philadelphia was planned by Thomas Holme, William Penn's Surveyor and friend in the 1600s, I think it's more accurate to state that Midwestern or Western U.S. Cities are laid out like Philadelphia.

    Interestingly, the layout of the City was dictated in large part by William Penn's economic straits. Famously, the King of England settled a debt to Penn's father by grant of land that would be named Pennsylvania. Penn, a Quaker unlike his father and cash poor subdivided Philadelphia for sale - for one low price you would receive a parcel in the center of Philadelphia on which to build a town home, a larger parcel North along the river upon which to build a Country Manor, and a parcel larger still consisting of farmland to the West for productive agricultural use to support yourself and your two other houses.
    , @Mike Zwick
    I think an analogy could be made that Philadelphia is similar, but larger than, Baltimore. Maybe not in the context of today's demographics and politics, but if the physical built environment.
  12. Wouldn’t think that NYC would have much in common with Dougherty County, Georgia but both are the epicenter of an explosive outbreak of Covid. Dougherty County now has over 1000 cases and leads the state in deaths! If you take in the adjacent counties of Terrell, Lee and Mitchell its like NYC with NJ and Long lsland as the satellite clusters

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The southwest Georgia hotspot has to do with a big funeral for a janitor with 9 siblings.

    Like I say, a lot of the superspreader events have been highly respectable.

  13. Philly is notorious as a giant roach motel. No one comes in and no one leaves.

  14. Just a guess, but NYC is way more densely populated than Philly. Philadelphia is still for the most part a city of low rise row houses compared to the massive apartment buildings you see in New York.

    • Agree: Travis
  15. It’s moving from a disease of the rich (international travel, ski resorts) to a disease of the poor (use mass transit). NYC has lots of rich people using mass transit with poor people.

    • Agree: Triumph104
  16. All I can say is that question could only have come from a Californian.

    Sorry I don’t have numbers for it, but Philly is nothing like NYC. The right question would be, “How is Philadelphia like New York City?” That way you’re asking for a shorter list.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Philadelphia is a Northeastern Chicago.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    The right question would be, “How is Philadelphia like New York City?”
     
    These cities had five MLB teams in 1950, and only two in 1950.

    Philadelphia is the only one of the (old) multiple-team cities in which all the city's teams never finished in first the same year. Chicago's did in 1906, St Louis's in 1944, Boston's in 1948, and NYC's in 1951, all three.

    However, the A's and Phillies shared last-place honors many times.

    Philly was also the only city to lose its "strong sister", rather than the weak one.

    NYC never had an Eddie Waitkus, either. Though Chicago, not Philly, gets the blame.


    Waitkus remembered for being shot, but he was no Natural


    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2iHPwftIxSE/U5vyueOGDoI/AAAAAAAAE4w/t_K8knUQpJA/s1600/!!!WaitkusShootingOTD.jpg

  17. t says:

    Here’s a map of Covid cases by zip code in Philadelphia(the green one at the bottom of the page)
    https://www.phila.gov/programs/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/testing-and-data/

    I don’t know much about the demographic geography of Philadelphia but some quick research shows that the ZIPs with the lowest cases level, 19137 and 19134, are working to lower middle class white/hispanic areas while the hardest hit zip codes like 19124 and 19141 are black.

    • Replies: @Bemused Reactionary
    Philadelphian here. The <20% zips are where white people live.
    , @Andrew
    The least impact Philly Zip, 19137, is Bridesburg, a heavily Polish neighborhood.

    The other low rate ones nearby are 19134, which is Kensington and is Irish/Puerto Rican, and a whole series of Puerto Rican neighborhoods, and then 19106 (Society Hill) and 19118 (Chestnut Hill), which are the VERY rich formerly all Anglo neighborhoods.

    19123, 19107 in Center City is Chinatown, heavily impacted. The remaining heavy impact areas are mostly black except 19116 and 19115, which make up Bustleton and Somerton and are a mix of right leaning white professionals and newer Indian and Russian immigrants.
  18. Philly always feels way less crowded than NYC in terms of sidewalk traffic, subway/commuter train use & the relative popularity if its core with SWPLs. It feels a bit like a cross between Newark & Boston wrt scale & demographics

    • Agree: Jack Armstrong
    • Replies: @Jack D
    Demographics of Boston are nothing like Philly. When I get on mass transit in Boston it's mostly white people. First time I did that I though I had died and gone to heaven (or maybe Moscow), it had been so long that I had been on a subway with all white people.

    In Philly it's rare to see a white person on the bus or subway. Then again, good luck getting a pahkin spot in Boston. When I drive downtown in Philly to go to dinner I can usually get a spot on the street or if not, a garage is $8 or 10. Try that in Boston.
  19. OFF TOPIC:

    Linda Tripp, the career civil servant who ignited the impeachment of President Bill Clinton by tape-recording his mistress, has died. She was 70.

    Cause of death? Not listed.

    • Replies: @Coemgen

    Linda Tripp, the career civil servant who ignited the impeachment of President Bill Clinton by tape-recording his mistress, has died. She was 70.

    Cause of death? Not listed.
     
    an opportunistic infection? HRC-20?
    , @J.Ross
    ... was she on a plane?
    , @Jonathan Mason

    Cause of death? Not listed.
     
    She choked on her own bile.
    , @Art Deco
    Pancreatic cancer.
  20. Anonymous[883] • Disclaimer says:

    Basically, we are at the seed-corn scattering stage now.
    Pretty much random as to which particular patch of ground is hit by a seed, but there will be 2nd, 3rd 4th etc broadcast passes of the grim reaper and his seed bag – not to mention his scythe at the other end of his cycle of death.

  21. Places getting hit tend to be places that get a lot of tourists. New York, Lombardy. Phillie doesn’t see much tourism, so it’s farther behind the curve. It may catch up later.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Phillie doesn’t see much tourism, so it’s farther behind the curve.
     
    This alone is a disgrace. Americans aren't very American, are we? Philadelphia should be the first big city we visit. Long before NYC, let alone DC or Orlando.


    Independence National Park Is an Embarrassing Mess. Why Doesn’t Anyone Care?


    https://www.visitphilly.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Behind-Independence-Hall-J-Fusco-2200VP.jpg
    , @AceDeuce
    Not so fast. Philly gets a huge amount of tourists--around 45 million a year--NYC gets about 60-65 million.
  22. Anonymous[276] • Disclaimer says:

    OT: It’s the duty of all righteous men to excoriate and denounce communists. Despicable Bernie Sanders was allowed to cut a swath of destruction through the youth of America. Throughout his career he went almost entirely unchecked. He has warped and twisted millions of lives….

    Amazing Bernie supporter “rage quit” viral video:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1248082191218888705

    This girl is good looking, intelligent and she probably comes from an affluent family.

    She should be enjoying a fantastic love-filled life. But instead the Marxists seduced her and now she’s standing in a lonely apartment with a shaved head screaming at the mirror.

    DON’T LET THIS SHIT HAPPEN TO THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    I liked the meme on that thread:

    Four weeks into socialism, and Bernie drops out.
    , @Kylie
    "This girl is good looking, intelligent and she probably comes from an affluent family.

    She should be enjoying a fantastic love-filled life. But instead the Marxists seduced her and now she’s standing in a lonely apartment with a shaved head screaming at the mirror."

    On the other hand, do you really want people that susceptible to Sanders' toxic ideology reproducing? I don't.
  23. @unit472
    Wouldn't think that NYC would have much in common with Dougherty County, Georgia but both are the epicenter of an explosive outbreak of Covid. Dougherty County now has over 1000 cases and leads the state in deaths! If you take in the adjacent counties of Terrell, Lee and Mitchell its like NYC with NJ and Long lsland as the satellite clusters

    The southwest Georgia hotspot has to do with a big funeral for a janitor with 9 siblings.

    Like I say, a lot of the superspreader events have been highly respectable.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    > a lot of the superspreader events have been highly respectable.

    RNA testing capacity is growing, but the 30% false-negative rate isn't being solved. Looks like it can't be solved; the problem is that ~30% of infected people shed too little virus for a sensitive test to detect.

    On the other hand, superspreaders shed lots of virus into their saliva, mucus, breath. That's what makes them super.

    Point-of-care and fast-turnaround tests are generally less sensitive than those done in a central lab. I calculated that Abbott's ID Now PoC test is about tenfold worse in that regard.

    All of these tests will be excellent for identifying asymptomatic superspreaders. The challenges are to (1) figure out who to test first, (2) set up procedures for weekly testing, (3) pay for it.

    This is something that Trump, Cuomo, de Blasio, Birx, et al should be talking about.
    , @anon
    Right behind NYC, NOLA, & Albany, Ga in US corona deaths per capita is SE Indiana where I come from. One of the main vectors there I think was the high school basketball tournament.
  24. @SF
    Then there is California, with a current fatality rate of 1.25 per 100,000. Good management, or some demographic anomaly?

    Cars, I imagine.

    • Agree: Lockean Proviso
    • Replies: @Not Raul
    People in San Francisco rely on public transit, and their infection rate is relatively low.

    They took Coronavirus seriously sooner than most of the rest of the country.
    , @Buffalo Joe
    My daughter lives in Buck County, Pa., so we have visited Philly when we visit her. Philly drivers are a world unto themselves. A drivers license, a horn and a middle finger are all you need to drive in Philly...license is optional.
  25. Californians are pathetic when it comes to venturing farther east in the US than Las Vegas. If their kids are lucky their parents will spring for an extracurricular whirlwind one week 8th grade summer trip to DC, Philly, and NY. I can’t blame us, since my east coast husband I became Californians 20+ years ago we’ve only vacationed once back to NYC/Boston with the kids to see our relatives. The west coast (including Hawaii since it’s so “close” for us) is so spectacularly beautiful there really isn’t much of a compelling reason to go back.

    • Replies: @eD
    I am from and have lived most of my life in the Northeast, and have only been to California maybe half a dozen times, and to Southern California only once, but despite never having been to San Diego, somehow I realize that Los Angeles and San Diego are very different places.
    , @ben tillman

    I can’t blame us, since my east coast husband I became Californians 20+ years ago we’ve only vacationed once back to NYC/Boston with the kids to see our relatives. The west coast (including Hawaii since it’s so “close” for us) is so spectacularly beautiful there really isn’t much of a compelling reason to go back.
     
    The Northeast is also spectacularly beautiful in a very different way, which should be as compelling a reason to go back as anyone has to go from the Northeast to California.
  26. @Anon
    Places getting hit tend to be places that get a lot of tourists. New York, Lombardy. Phillie doesn't see much tourism, so it's farther behind the curve. It may catch up later.

    Phillie doesn’t see much tourism, so it’s farther behind the curve.

    This alone is a disgrace. Americans aren’t very American, are we? Philadelphia should be the first big city we visit. Long before NYC, let alone DC or Orlando.

    Independence National Park Is an Embarrassing Mess. Why Doesn’t Anyone Care?

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be 'inclusive' with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one's interested any more. And even when "Americans" visit Washington, the main things they want to see are the Spy Museum, the Holocaust Museum, and maybe the gemological exhibit at the Smithsonian.

    The National Museum of African American History and Culture has been popular since it opened a few years ago, but places like Independence Hall and Williamsburg are seen as too 'white' and as you know, the Flight From White includes most white people.

    https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/68f6ec2/2147483647/strip/true/crop/5360x3015+0+449/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmediaassets.wtkr.com%2Ftribune-network%2Ftribwtkr-files-wordpress%2F2016%2F07%2Fvirginia-colonial-williamsburg.jpg
    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    One great American tragedy is the sheer volume of historically significant places within Philadelphia which has been utterly lost to time - either neglect or blind progress. A lot of the rest of it simply isn't highlighted or celebrated for its historical significance. Neither the Commonwealth nor the City has ever done much to preserve, curate, and market these sites of national historical significance either. The weather is pleasant here particularly in the Fall.

    For example, the "Betsy Ross House" which you may visit in Philadelphia is actually not Ross's, but rather a very similar house of her neighbor which was preserved. They don't tell you that until the end of the tour. Tun Tavern burnt down during the Revolution, but its location is now the support system for I-95.

    For those of us who grew up here, it all tends to fade into the background and be taken for granted.
    , @Anonymous Jew
    I went to Independence Hall maybe 6 years ago. Immediately after, about 2-3 blocks away, I ran into a large mob of Black teens in a fist fight (known to the media simply as “teens”). I lived in DC for three years but never saw that near the Mall.

    The rest of Philly didn’t make a great impression either.
  27. No doubt people in Philadelphia would sharply disagree with my ill-informed prejudice, but I have always tended to think of Philadelphia as being like New York City, only less so.

    Imagine an Easterner likening LA and San Diego.

    Isn’t Philadelphia always at or near the top of the list of fattest US cities? It’s the home of cheesesteaks and Tastykakes. (And, at one time, Johan Printz.)

    https://www.tastykake.com/products

    They also leave bags of trash on the sidewalk once a week. They should be dropping like flies.

    Or bats:

    https://www.the-sun.com/news/657349/wildlife-expert-warns-humans-could-infect-bats-coronavirus/

  28. @Reg Cæsar

    Phillie doesn’t see much tourism, so it’s farther behind the curve.
     
    This alone is a disgrace. Americans aren't very American, are we? Philadelphia should be the first big city we visit. Long before NYC, let alone DC or Orlando.


    Independence National Park Is an Embarrassing Mess. Why Doesn’t Anyone Care?


    https://www.visitphilly.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Behind-Independence-Hall-J-Fusco-2200VP.jpg

    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be ‘inclusive’ with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one’s interested any more. And even when “Americans” visit Washington, the main things they want to see are the Spy Museum, the Holocaust Museum, and maybe the gemological exhibit at the Smithsonian.

    The National Museum of African American History and Culture has been popular since it opened a few years ago, but places like Independence Hall and Williamsburg are seen as too ‘white’ and as you know, the Flight From White includes most white people.

    • Replies: @black sea
    My parents took me to Jamestown and Williamsburg when I was a kid. It was for me one of the most memorable trips we ever took (we didn't do a lot of travelling to new locales in my childhood).

    I guess there has been a significant drop off of interest in colonial history, but then again, when the whole subject is just one long crime against humanity, I suppose few White people want to dwell on it, and People of Color don't take much interest in history generally.
    , @Lockean Proviso
    And Plymouth Rock was recently vandalized:

    "The historic rock at Pilgrim Memorial State Park, in Plymouth, was found by officials covered in red spray paint and emblazoned with the letters “MOF” and the number “508.”

    https://nypost.com/2020/02/17/historic-plymouth-rock-found-defaced-with-red-graffiti/

    Not sure if it was vibrant gangbangers marking their territory in ignorance and/or apathy about the history or if it was SJWs denouncing that history. Also not sure which would be worse, or if it even matters which it was at this point.

    Over two hundred years has been a good run.

    , @grim prognosis
    I told my son earlier this year that we were going to Williamsburg, Charleston, and Jamestown this summer so he can see where our ancestors on both sides of his family came in the 17th Century. We need to hurry I guess.
    , @Barnard
    I hope Colonial Williamsburg is able to continue in some form, like you said, there have been articles about their revenue struggles for a couple of years now. This will be an interesting topic to watch as we come out of this shutdown. How many organizations that rely heavily on donations don't make successfully out the other side. Another area to watch is how many private colleges are unable to resume classes in the fall.
    , @Hebrew National
    I don't think it's lack of interest so much as remoteness. You only see Williamsburg VA if you go specifically for that. Whereas plenty of Washington DC or NY sites get traffic because tourists are there for a host of other reasons.

    Another thing about Williamsburg is that it's pretty low key — an elongated commons and the streets around it with their old houses. IOW the opposite of Disneyland.
    , @eD
    "Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be ‘inclusive’ with a several dozen slavery exhibits."

    This claim took me by surprise, but I googled "number of visitors to Colonial Williamsburg" and found a local news article from 2017 stating that the number of visitors peaked in 1984 at 1.1 million, when my parents took me there, and by 2016 had been halved, to 564,000. The population of the USA as a whole grew by 110 million during this time.

    "Close up shop" might be an exaggeration. The non-profit that runs Colonial Williamsburg gets most of its support from corporate donors, and it would take a bigger shift in the culture to get to a situation where no one pays for the upkeep of the historic buildings. I could see that happening -the article on Independence Hall posted earlier by another commentator stated that was going to be demolished until the Philadelphia city government bought it- but we are not quite there yet.

    My opinion on the visitor receipts is that the foundation should be investing in hotels, and pretty much be selling the experience as a sort of luxury vacation where a customer stays in a luxury hotel and gets tour of the buildings (you can pay to stay in the historic buildings even now). This would cope with the decline/ vanishing of the American middle class, which I suspect is the real reason behind the declining visitor totals, as it affects the park. With the shutdown of small businesses (and also educational institutions, and the latest Big Bailout, the decline of the American middle class will only accelerate and in fact this event could finish it off. Nor does it help Colonial Williamsburg, which according to the website is closed temporarily, though only small numbers of people at the time could visit the historical buildings anyway.
    , @Jack D

    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be ‘inclusive’ with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one’s interested any more.
     
    For most of the 19th century, Americans were not at all interested in historic buildings. They were just OLD buildings to them and they had no qualms about knocking them down to build something new and better. You can count on the fingers of 1 hand the number of pre-Revolutionary buildings in Manhattan. Williamsburg survived because it was a backwater and no one was interested in building anything new there so they let the colonial buildings just molder without bothering to knock them down. For almost a century, the Levy family pleaded with the US Government to take over Monticello and the government turned them down over and over (despite being offered the place for free). Taking care of old buildings in perpetuity was not the business of government.

    So what changed? A big impetus was that as America was being overwhelmed by the last great wave of immigration, Founding Stock Americans wanted to stake a claim for themselves that they were better than New Americans because their ancestors got here first and were the ones responsible for the great system that we have. Historic buildings were tangible proof of their claim and needed to be preserved. The preservation of Williamsburg dates only to the 1920s.

    And of course they were right - as the new generation of Americans is half white, visits to Williamsburg have fallen by half. If you are a Latino, what Tomas Yefferson was doing in 1776 is of no great concern to you. Latinos don't really care about history or other book larnin' type stuff in general, let alone wasting their time walking thru some dusty old building where the white guys in wigs used to debate.
    , @AnotherDad


    No one’s interested any more. And even when “Americans” visit Washington, the main things they want to see are the Spy Museum, the Holocaust Museum, and maybe the gemological exhibit at the Smithsonian.
     
    Gotta say, the Holocaust museum plopped down on the national mall was one giant power f.u. from the Jews to America's founding stock WASPs who actually created and built the nation.

    I thought at the time, this was utterly inappropriate. The Holocaust was after all in ... Europe. That's a continent over there across the sea somewhere, not actually in America. (And the US, Soviet and British armies helpfully ended the thing.) If we're doing that, why not a potato famine museum? The Irish are more numerous and had a lot more to do with settling America. Will we someday get the "Museum of the Great Leap Forward" or "Museum of the Khmer Rouge Genocide" or "Museum of Rwandan Genocide" on the Mall? Of course not. They're stupid.

    Heck, they even beat the blacks having a Museum of American Slavery. Which is at least legitimate to have on the mall as slavery was actually *here* in America, part of our history. And there's still museum of the American Indian holocaust. Another part of our history.

    But of course pointing the arrogant sliminess of this out is ... "anti-Semitic". Trivial distinctions like "America" and "somewhere else" are unimportant once it's about the Jews.

    You got to hand it to the Jews--as unpleasant as it is to be around--they aren't wallflowers. They push "the suffering of the Jews" to the front burner and everyone must "pay attention!" to their lecture ... or you're anti-Semitic. (Another reward Americans reap for giving Jews refuge and treating Jews better than pretty much any middle man minority has ever been treated anywhere.)
  29. “Why Is Philadelphia Not Much Like New York City?”

    Another, possibly relevant question: Why don’t Asians like Ann Coulter? Oh, I know:

    Washington state was the site of our very first case. Washington state is also 9.3% Asian. Even now, it has eight times more coronavirus cases per capita than neighboring Oregon (4.8% Asian).

    Could it be that Chinese-Americans have more contact with the epicenter of this plague than other Americans? As the left always lectures us, BELIEVE THE SCIENCE!

    The virus next leapt to New York (9% Asian) and New Jersey (10% Asian). The worst-hit borough of Manhattan is Queens. Guess which borough has the most Asians? Elmhurst Hospital in Queens is the worst-hit hospital in the nation. Elmhurst neighborhood: 50% Asian.

    Notice a pattern? While it’s true that “viruses don’t have nationalities!” — and thank you very much for pointing that out, media! — the carriers of viruses do have nationalities.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/ill-have-the-chicken-testicle-soup-hold-the-deadly-virus/

    BWTM:

    Although, it occurs to me that, despite America’s terrible toxic whiteness, one way our culture is superior to others is that we don’t believe lunatic nonsense that wipes out entire species or launches viral pandemics on the world.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Could it be that Chinese-Americans have more contact with the epicenter of this plague than other Americans?
     
    But Chinese Canadians didn't? The very different experiences of Seattle and Vancouver are a curious exception.
    , @Tony
    You gotta separate the east asians from the south asians. At least half in Jersey and Elmhurst are south asian.
  30. It’s the magic of the Cheez Whiz® in the cheesesteaks.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    The standard cheese steak is made with white American.
  31. Anon[650] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie
    What I found interesting about NY is that Westchester, Suffolk, and Nassau Counties have higher cases per capita than NYC does.

    NYC 910.5 cases per 100,000
    Nassau 1224,4
    Suffolk 1045.8
    Westchester 1528.1

    Philly is 254.6, but this is not unusual. DC is only 176.9.

    A lot of Nassau, Suffolk, and Westchester takes the train (LIRR) into town to go to work. They are on the train for a longer ride also. Many have to get off the train and hop on another subway once in town, and repeat the process in reverse on the way home. I imagine just the turnstiles alone, much less the seats, handles, close contact with other passenges while on the train, or waiting on a bench for another definitely made a contribution really early on before we were acutely aware of the severity. Just plopping down in a seat where someone just sat is fraught with ‘pozzibilities.’

  32. Wow, David Cole’s even more on point. Linking just FYI.

    If the CCP vanished tomorrow, the wet markets would still be there in China, along with the seeds of the next, worse SARS and COVID. And yes, U.S. officials on all sides bungled the COVID response; no one is without error in this catastrophe. But if Trump, Pence, Pelosi, Schumer, and Cuomo vanished tomorrow, the wet markets would still be there in China, along with the seeds of the next, worse SARS and COVID.

    From this point on, there can be nothing that takes priority over shutting down the Chinese exotic-animal trade and wet markets. Nothing.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/wuhan-derangement-syndrome/

    • Replies: @Dave from Oz
    David Cole is wrong. The Covid-19 outbreak has nothing to do with the wet market, and everything to do with the Wuhan bioweapons lab and the bureucratic bungling of the CCP. A chinese emperor would have done a far more effective job.
    , @Cowboy shaw
    Great article. Bannon is all over the airwaves with a 'blame the party' angle. I'm not sure it's that simple.
    , @Anonymous
    "Wet market" is a broad category that refers to stores or markets that sell fresh produce and food, as opposed to "dry markets", which sell dry goods and packaged food. Farmer's markets in the US would be considered "wet markets". Fruit and vegetable stands would be a "wet market".

    Most wet markets in China sell produce and pork and chicken. Wet markets are not the same thing as exotic meat or wildlife markets.
    , @Anon
    Blaming someone from the other side of the planet, and who wouldn't be bothered to retort, is stupid. Why does your country have a government, if three bateaters from the antipodes dictate your health and the hours you can walk out of your homes? Even if China disappears tomorrow, isn't there another billion of cow pee drinkers, and another billion of bushmeat eaters?
  33. My main understanding of the difference between Philadelphia and New York comes from Diane Keaton’s character in Manhattan, who twice utters the line:

    “I’m from Philadelphia; we believe in God. We don’t talk about these things.”

    I guess Philadelphia is more repressed WASP?

    • Replies: @Neuday
    The movie Manhattan was made in 1979. America was still a nation back then, unaware of the consequences of letting people like Woody Allen influence our culture.
    , @SFG
    In 1979...
  34. @Mr McKenna
    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be 'inclusive' with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one's interested any more. And even when "Americans" visit Washington, the main things they want to see are the Spy Museum, the Holocaust Museum, and maybe the gemological exhibit at the Smithsonian.

    The National Museum of African American History and Culture has been popular since it opened a few years ago, but places like Independence Hall and Williamsburg are seen as too 'white' and as you know, the Flight From White includes most white people.

    https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/68f6ec2/2147483647/strip/true/crop/5360x3015+0+449/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmediaassets.wtkr.com%2Ftribune-network%2Ftribwtkr-files-wordpress%2F2016%2F07%2Fvirginia-colonial-williamsburg.jpg

    My parents took me to Jamestown and Williamsburg when I was a kid. It was for me one of the most memorable trips we ever took (we didn’t do a lot of travelling to new locales in my childhood).

    I guess there has been a significant drop off of interest in colonial history, but then again, when the whole subject is just one long crime against humanity, I suppose few White people want to dwell on it, and People of Color don’t take much interest in history generally.

    • Replies: @Alice
    I was at CW two Novembers ago. There were literally 3-4k kids there on field trips each day (I counted the buses.) But the Thomas Jefferson talk done by the brilliant TJ reenactor Bill Barker was attended by exactly 3 children, my 3, all homeschooled.

    The schools refused to bring their students, elementary, middle, or high school, to an open forum where they could ask Thomas Jefferson anything. (mine asked about code wheels and secret messages... not exactly political science..sigh)

    It was so depressing. It wasn't just that the convincing of our children that the Founders were evil and the founding illegitimate has been complete. No, because they didn't even denouce TJ or heckle his ideas. No, we have been overcome by teachers and students too stupid to even know there were ideas related to the Founding, and none of them have any interest in discussing ideas at all. This discussion of ideas was once known as thinking.
    , @William Badwhite

    I guess there has been a significant drop off of interest in colonial history,
     
    That's because American history began when Grandpa Moishe arrived at Ellis Island. Anything before that is just noise.
  35. @Anon
    Places getting hit tend to be places that get a lot of tourists. New York, Lombardy. Phillie doesn't see much tourism, so it's farther behind the curve. It may catch up later.

    Not so fast. Philly gets a huge amount of tourists–around 45 million a year–NYC gets about 60-65 million.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Downtown Philadelphia is pretty awesome. City Hall, for example, is jaw-dropping.
  36. @Mr McKenna
    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be 'inclusive' with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one's interested any more. And even when "Americans" visit Washington, the main things they want to see are the Spy Museum, the Holocaust Museum, and maybe the gemological exhibit at the Smithsonian.

    The National Museum of African American History and Culture has been popular since it opened a few years ago, but places like Independence Hall and Williamsburg are seen as too 'white' and as you know, the Flight From White includes most white people.

    https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/68f6ec2/2147483647/strip/true/crop/5360x3015+0+449/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmediaassets.wtkr.com%2Ftribune-network%2Ftribwtkr-files-wordpress%2F2016%2F07%2Fvirginia-colonial-williamsburg.jpg

    And Plymouth Rock was recently vandalized:

    “The historic rock at Pilgrim Memorial State Park, in Plymouth, was found by officials covered in red spray paint and emblazoned with the letters “MOF” and the number “508.”

    https://nypost.com/2020/02/17/historic-plymouth-rock-found-defaced-with-red-graffiti/

    Not sure if it was vibrant gangbangers marking their territory in ignorance and/or apathy about the history or if it was SJWs denouncing that history. Also not sure which would be worse, or if it even matters which it was at this point.

    Over two hundred years has been a good run.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna

    Over two hundred years has been a good run.
     
    I suppose. Though not by Roman standards.

    https://lonelyplanetwpnews.imgix.net/2017/10/rome-pantheon.jpg
  37. @Whiskey
    NYC has a lot more Asians. Including people who presumably traveled from Wu Flu central, "Bat City" Wuhan to NYC.

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto. It is what Detroit aspired to be but could not become, the true Wakanda. BLACK in all senses of the word. No Asian would go there and expect to make it out alive. Its a WorldStarHipHop city.

    Its like Africa. Chinese there don't associate with Africans so they might as well be on another planet.

    Lots of Asians in the city of Philly, and a huge amount in the Philly ‘burbs.

  38. @Twinkie
    What I found interesting about NY is that Westchester, Suffolk, and Nassau Counties have higher cases per capita than NYC does.

    NYC 910.5 cases per 100,000
    Nassau 1224,4
    Suffolk 1045.8
    Westchester 1528.1

    Philly is 254.6, but this is not unusual. DC is only 176.9.

    Those counties are full of people who could afford to travel. According to this article NYC’s corona virus came from Europe, probably brought back by returning Americans.

    https://dnyuz.com/2020/04/08/most-new-york-coronavirus-cases-came-from-europe-genomes-show/

  39. @AceDeuce
    Not so fast. Philly gets a huge amount of tourists--around 45 million a year--NYC gets about 60-65 million.

    Downtown Philadelphia is pretty awesome. City Hall, for example, is jaw-dropping.

    • Replies: @Bemused Reactionary
    Very true Steve, but 5 blocks north, 20 blocks west and you are deep in Diversity.
    , @Tom-in-VA
    I’m glad someone appreciates my home town. Thanks, Steve. I think Philadelphia is much more provincial than New York. Very few people move out of the area or travel internationally, and it’s less of an international travel destination. Someone else also mentioned the subway system, which is tiny compared with New York.
    , @Jack D
    City Hall is the world’s tallest free standing masonry building at 548' (St. Peter's in Rome is 100' shorter). It is as tall as many skyscrapers but it's not a skyscraper. (The difference between a skyscraper and a masonry building is like the difference between a human and an insect - a skyscraper has a skeleton on the inside. The outside walls of a masonry building carry the entire load). The stone walls are 22' thick at the bottom to carry all that weight.

    At the top is a clock tower section (clock faces are bigger than Big Ben) with a cast iron skin and a hand riveted steel supports on the inside. They hadn't really figured out how to build a building out of steel so there are braces and turnbuckles going off in all directions - looking at that it's hard to imagine how you could ever make a steel building such that it would have usable interior space.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Philadelphia_City_Hall_-_tower_interior.jpg

    It took 30 years to build and was accompanied by epic corruption.
    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Downtown Philadelphia is pretty awesome. City Hall, for example, is jaw-dropping.
     
    When did you first visit, Steve?

    When I was a kid, even well into my twenties Center City wasn't a place most people went unless they worked in a few discrete industries or for the City and County itself. My great uncle Joe was a Sheriff's Deputy and transported the accused to and from Court in City Hall (before all criminal matters were relegated to a purpose made building) so he went there. But you usually just wouldn't go there for non-necessary purposes.

    Even into the early 2000s and before the effects of the urban crime wave were seen to really have abated if you were in Center City at, say, 4:45 p.m. on a weekday the various storefront shops would begin rolling the steel doors down. Except the odd field trip to the Liberty Bell or Independence Hall, my entire experience largely excluded Center City and was restricted to Northeast Philadelphia where I lived, and South Philadelphia where my extended family lived. Center City was that stuff you could see from I-95 that linked the two and which you'd only get a good look at during busy traffic on a Friday on your way down the shore.
    , @Anon
    The lack of central air, and thus A/C units in every window, takes away from the mystique up close.
  40. @Jack Armstrong
    OFF TOPIC:

    Linda Tripp, the career civil servant who ignited the impeachment of President Bill Clinton by tape-recording his mistress, has died. She was 70.

    Cause of death? Not listed.

    Linda Tripp, the career civil servant who ignited the impeachment of President Bill Clinton by tape-recording his mistress, has died. She was 70.

    Cause of death? Not listed.

    an opportunistic infection? HRC-20?

    • LOL: Cortes
    • Replies: @schnellandine

    an opportunistic infection? HRC-20?
     
    Several years ago anyway, she smoked as if getting paid for it.
    , @WGary
    I read that Linda Tripp had pancreatic cancer.
    , @Uncle Remus
    It took HRC a good while to get around to Linda, but we have to remember she has a very long list.
  41. @Coemgen

    Linda Tripp, the career civil servant who ignited the impeachment of President Bill Clinton by tape-recording his mistress, has died. She was 70.

    Cause of death? Not listed.
     
    an opportunistic infection? HRC-20?

    an opportunistic infection? HRC-20?

    Several years ago anyway, she smoked as if getting paid for it.

  42. @Uilleam yr Alban
    One is Babel. It enjoys being Babel. Babel is its persona.

    not really OT

    Joker the movie is visually a good representation of the NYCscape. With liberal borrowings from the King of Comedy and the white dude that shot up 4 young blacks in a subway car, and the Adam Sandler gag about promising not to look while he washed your grandmother, the hero is life-damaged through no fault of his own. The degree of mean-spiritedness that is assigned to the folks Joker works with is not very high, just coarse. There is no denouement to the movie, at the end Jocker seems to be in a lunatic asylum. A friend, an admirer of Joker, explained away the lack of a denouement by pointing out that the movie is a prequel therefore does not require one. The King of Comedy‘s denouement was Rupert Pupkin the worst comic in the world actually knocking the audience dead on TV and becoming the new King of comedy.

    Can it be that there is no denouement in history? Speaking for myself, coping, I am struck by the oddness of this moment in history. The permanent re-ordering of a good deal of work hitherto done in office aggregations to Internet connectivity is likely. There is a 66 story building being built right next to our older apartment house. As the city (Austin) has decreed an end to construction, I believe the builders are winding down this early stage about 6 months into the project with the cement walls in place going down about 4 storys and the last of the fill being removed. The locals have not been informed whether said 66 story skyscaper will be offices or residences. The city is semed with skyscrapers, office buildings and residential, the previous tallest a 55 story residential bldg. There is a 44 story residential tower built with Chinese money a Chinese friend of mine told me. Last time I drove past it about 2 months ago, none of the balconies sported furniture. By analogy I would assume that the next door project is residential. The office buildings dont have balconies. No traffic no sirens. 6 deaths so far. >400 infected at last count.

    • Replies: @peterike

    There is a 44 story residential tower built with Chinese money a Chinese friend of mine told me.

     

    I can assure you the plan is to market much of that tower to Chinese. I don't know how many Chinese are in Austin, but my guess is the answer is "a lot, with plenty more on the way."

    When Coronachan is over, I expect the Chinese invasion will resume its normal pace.
    , @ScarletNumber

    The King of Comedy‘s denouement was Rupert Pupkin the worst comic in the world actually knocking the audience dead on TV and becoming the new King of comedy.
     
    I like the Jersey jokes.

    As an aside, do you think the character of Rupert's mother was real or a figment of his imagination. We never see her and no other character hears her.
  43. @Whiskey
    NYC has a lot more Asians. Including people who presumably traveled from Wu Flu central, "Bat City" Wuhan to NYC.

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto. It is what Detroit aspired to be but could not become, the true Wakanda. BLACK in all senses of the word. No Asian would go there and expect to make it out alive. Its a WorldStarHipHop city.

    Its like Africa. Chinese there don't associate with Africans so they might as well be on another planet.

    Philly’s Chinatown actually has Chinese people living there. Lots of South Asians too, enough of them that blacks bullying them at schools in the city became a major topic.

    Anyway it appears the east coast strain came from Europe.

  44. @Lockean Proviso
    And Plymouth Rock was recently vandalized:

    "The historic rock at Pilgrim Memorial State Park, in Plymouth, was found by officials covered in red spray paint and emblazoned with the letters “MOF” and the number “508.”

    https://nypost.com/2020/02/17/historic-plymouth-rock-found-defaced-with-red-graffiti/

    Not sure if it was vibrant gangbangers marking their territory in ignorance and/or apathy about the history or if it was SJWs denouncing that history. Also not sure which would be worse, or if it even matters which it was at this point.

    Over two hundred years has been a good run.

    Over two hundred years has been a good run.

    I suppose. Though not by Roman standards.

    • Replies: @Lockean Proviso
    No rebar either:
    How much of our stuff will last?

    https://theconversation.com/the-problem-with-reinforced-concrete-56078
  45. @Jack Armstrong
    OFF TOPIC:

    Linda Tripp, the career civil servant who ignited the impeachment of President Bill Clinton by tape-recording his mistress, has died. She was 70.

    Cause of death? Not listed.

    … was she on a plane?

  46. @Twinkie
    What I found interesting about NY is that Westchester, Suffolk, and Nassau Counties have higher cases per capita than NYC does.

    NYC 910.5 cases per 100,000
    Nassau 1224,4
    Suffolk 1045.8
    Westchester 1528.1

    Philly is 254.6, but this is not unusual. DC is only 176.9.

    Maybe more international tourists & Chinese in NYC? New Yorkers being bigger international travelers perhaps?

    Have a relative who lived in Philly for a few years…..from what i was told more of a car culture in Philly once you get away from the city center.

  47. @Anonymous
    Raised in NYC, have worked in Philly for 20 years. The population density in Philly is remarkably lower, no real comparable highly-used subway system like NYC or London. Center City itself is small. Philly is laid out like a Midwestern or Western US City, much more drivable, workers more isolated in cars. Also not much International and Corporate/ Political travel relative to NYC or even DC.

    Philly is basically a “town” with a numerically declining population and is eminently more Suburban focused in nature. Never even built a skyscraper until 1980s. Much of its Corporate world moved out to the Western Suburbs in the 1960s. Great place, but very provincial, thrives on not trying to be NYC & DC.

    Exact opposite history, same observations. Born and raised in Philadelphia, worked in NYC 30 years, lived Manhattan 15 of those, back in Philadelphia suburbs last 15. Completely agree with this summation. In NY my demographic takes the subway all the time, eats out at city restaurants twice a week, lives in a highrise or rides crowded commuter trains for long trips to suburbs, takes subway from train station to office, walks a few blocks for lunch, then repeats in reverse. My demographic in Philly drives to work alone, lives in a house in suburbs, eats out at less-crowded suburban restaurants.

    NY central business district is basically all of Manhattan south of 59th st, in Philly it’s about 20 blocks around City Hall. Philly has nothing like the subsidiary, very crowded, business districts like Flushing, Brooklyn Borough Hall/Barclays Center area, Long Island City.

    Vast swaths of North, West, and Southwest Philadelphia is third-world level #Diversity.

  48. @Steve Sailer
    Downtown Philadelphia is pretty awesome. City Hall, for example, is jaw-dropping.

    Very true Steve, but 5 blocks north, 20 blocks west and you are deep in Diversity.

  49. There is a very interesting chart in today’s Bangkok Post entitled “The Tests Are Back: Infection rates among tested people”. It gives the number of tested people per 1 million population and the infection rate among tested people for 11 countries prominently involved in the COVID-19 crisis.

    You can get it from this link:
    https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1895885/ccsa-defends-tests
    As far as I can tell, there is no paywall. You have to scroll down about 2/3 of the article to find the informative chart. That’s better than the New York Times…

  50. My guess is that compared to NYC, Philly is extremely parochial. NYC is only 90 miles away, and a lot of people from Philly have never even been to NYC.

    Thus, not much air travel nor mingling with internationals.

  51. @Mr McKenna
    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be 'inclusive' with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one's interested any more. And even when "Americans" visit Washington, the main things they want to see are the Spy Museum, the Holocaust Museum, and maybe the gemological exhibit at the Smithsonian.

    The National Museum of African American History and Culture has been popular since it opened a few years ago, but places like Independence Hall and Williamsburg are seen as too 'white' and as you know, the Flight From White includes most white people.

    https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/68f6ec2/2147483647/strip/true/crop/5360x3015+0+449/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmediaassets.wtkr.com%2Ftribune-network%2Ftribwtkr-files-wordpress%2F2016%2F07%2Fvirginia-colonial-williamsburg.jpg

    I told my son earlier this year that we were going to Williamsburg, Charleston, and Jamestown this summer so he can see where our ancestors on both sides of his family came in the 17th Century. We need to hurry I guess.

  52. • Thanks: ic1000
    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Scheiße, that's huge. No wonder they don't want news of that out.

    There's no way in ****ing hell the current order makes it out of this alive. I know it in my bones. The stench of decay has been out there for the past decade, but now? Now we need to start speaking about what comes next.

    There's no going back: this pandemic is going to change things, no matter how many people it does or does not kill. It hit a decaying, useless order like a truck, and that's all that matters. Good riddance, too. How stupid, how utterly useless do you need to be to squander the unprecedented potential that the US had after the USSR imploded?

    , @AnotherDad
    Thanks Piltdown.

    Finally some people going and getting the data. (Something "public health authorities" seem pretty uninterested in doing.)

    This is back in the ballpark i've been suggesting from the beginning based on Diamond Princess (age adjusted).

    I hope it holds up in other studies other places and then we can gradually build a consensus against the hysteria and AWFL response and work toward something more manly, logical, sound--grounded in data and reasonable understanding of "life".
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    But there is a caveat, isn't there?

    There are a lot of corona viruses, including 8 strains from "COVID-19." So a test result that says someone had corona virus antibodies does not necessarily mean they had COVID-19.
    , @Polynikes
    I reached my comment limit, so just want to say "thanks."

    Also, what is interesting is that even in these places where the virus was early and no precautions were taken the prevalence is still way lower than predicted (almost as far off as the death counts). Ohio released a model that showed they peaked and started to decline the day before the lock down. Yet we persist with this myth.

    What's throwing people off--everyone, myself included--is that this seems to spread really asymmetrically. You have these super spreaders then in other places it is shown to have existed for quite awhile before social distancing, yet only 10-15% of the population is infected.
    , @Hail
    Thank you, PiltdownMan. Though the link doesn't point to the story, rather to an "All Corona, All The Time" live-ticker, I was able to locate the study elsewhere.

    (Search for "Vorläufiges Ergebnis und Schlussfolgerungen der COVID-19 Case-Cluster-Study (Gemeinde Gangelt)Prof. Dr. Hendrik Streeck (Institut für Virologie)...")

    Summary: The study was carried out in Gangelt, one of Germany's towns with among the highest rates of coronavirus patients; i.e., this town is of interest because it is an outlier at the high end, More info would be of interest on local circumstances; was there a nursing-home cluster?

    Why Gangelt? The town supposedly had a mass spreading event on Feb. 24 or 25, at a Carnival parade.

    The town of Gangelt (pop.: 12,500) is in the district Kreis Heinsberg (pop: 254,000). There were 47 deaths in the district as of yesterday, 900 corona-positive full-recoveries, and 529 corona-positives still showing symptoms.

    In a sample of people from the town, evidence was found that 16% had had definite contact with the virus, of whom 2% showed current 'positives' and 14% showed evidence of a past 'positive' and now had immunity from this strain of virus (which is how some news outlets are reporting the finding; "14% Immune! A CoronaReligion miracle! Just in time for Easter! /Editor's note: 'Easter' was a former holiday under the old religion that preceded the Corona Religion."). The remaining 84% didn't show signs of contact with the virus. Not sure what the Type I or Type II errors are.

    The big deal here is that this new study implies the district in question had something in the tens of thousands of other corona-positives who never showed symptoms and were never tested, again corroborating the figures previously found and estimated that this coronavirus is asymptomatic in 90% of cases, maybe more. That's fort-seven deaths of maybe twenty- or thirty-thousand (implied) corona-positives in the district.

    The finding gives a snapshot of an embryonic stage of the much-talked-about "herd immunity," just as always develops with every flu virus, something usually only of interest to specialists.

    The state's 47 deaths will probably rise to 60, maybe 70 deaths, if remaining patients die at the same rate as before. Deaths at ~65 out of 254,000 residents is ~25 deaths per 100k total population, many of which were probably "died with" and not "died from."

    How many corona-positives were/are there in the district of Kreis Heinsberg? If the district as a whoe has half Gangelt's 16% corona-positive rate, that's an implied ca.20,500 corona-positives in the district, meaning the death rate in one of Germany's worst-hit places has a True Fatality Rate of 0.23%, likely rising to 0.30% when remaining patients die. However, there is a big caveat. The just-calculated figure 0.2%–0.3% must be revised downward to correct for the tricky "deaths with vs. deaths from" problem.

    If Germany's corona-positive deaths follow Sweden's, where it is reported that two-thirds are deathbed-patients -- i.e., "deaths with" and not "deaths from" -- The 'True Corona Fatality Rate' in this community in Germany is the ballpark 0f 0.08% (0.067% to 0.1%); on the other hand, if local circumstances push "deaths with" higher, up to the Italian figure of 88%, we're down to ca. 0.02% to 0.04% as the True Corona Fatality Rate.

    So these derivable estimates from the Gangelt study mean a True Corona Fatality Rate of 0.02% to 0.08%, which is in line with Dr. Ioannidis' estimates using US data, and the French team's findings published about March 20, and the study by Dr. John Lee in the UK of late March, and others, who all estimated a similar true fatality rate, almost all appear confident that final mortality will be <0.1% of corona-positives.

    If you don't like to get tangled up in "deaths with vs. deaths from," one can stick with the reliable Total Deaths of All Causes data and see if you can observe a rise. Kreis Heinsberg's expected deaths in normal conditions for March and April are something about 450 to 500. Corona-positive deaths: 47 so far; of which are "deaths from," unknown.

  53. I am looking hard at national data, and the relationship between temperature and humidity and COVID-19 is very strong and an incredibly important piece of the puzzle. It is not a 100% correlation because there are other variables, but it is a very strong correlation. We have seen that the worst hit places now are New England and Michigan while warm and humid places are hit much less severely.

    The five worst states for new COVID deaths in the last 24 hours are, in order New York, New Jersey, Michigan, Illinois and Massachusetts. Southern states, even with their poorer health care systems, poor adherence to social distancing and worse overall health, have seen better outcomes, and the difference is climate and indoor humidity.

    There is a negative (in my view) trend among some scientists to downplay correlations that are imperfect (this is why it took so long to introduce masks in America).

    But it is far better to advance pieces of the puzzle, even if they aren’t the only piece. Climate is an incredibly important piece of the puzzle and awareness of the need to humidify in winter will save many lives!

    Ther is a new and important work by a team at Yale and in Zurich:

    “Seasonality of Respiratory Viral Infections”

    https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10.1146/annurev-virology-012420-022445

    The big Mardi Gras breakout in Louisiana clouded the climate correlation for a while, but the northern tier of the country now dominates in new cases. Massachusetts has arguably the best medical care in the world and yet COVID-19 deaths there yesterday exceeded that of Louisiana which lacks that medical advancement and has terrible underlying health. Florida had only 27 COVID deaths yesterday against New Jersey’s 270.

    Climate, namely temperature and humidity differences, are showing strongly through all the noise, both in the nation and world-level data. Even though warm and humid places are not immune from COVID-19, colder places where indoor humidity is low are being hit FAR harder, even when their medical systems are much more advanced.

    The United States is seeing a partial respite right now from south to north, but colder climates need to be ready for a fall rebound of this virus and humidification will save thousands of lives then! With clear seasonality, there will be a race to find solutions.

    • Agree: Kratoklastes
    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
    Yep - here's me, while y'all Murkins wuz asleep...

    What is your best guess about what happens when the average intraday temperature (i.e., excluding overnight) rises into the mid-20s [°C]?

    That happens about the middle of next month in NYC and DC; later in Detroit and Chicago; it happened in March for NOLA, and South FL.

    There’s a hint why there’s such emphasis of this week being ‘Hell Week‘ for NYC.

    Public authorities know they’ve made a gigantic fuckup, and are going hell-for-leather to paint an optimistic picture so that they can claim credit before the start of ‘real’ Spring weather – because once temps are routinely in the 20s[°C] it’s going to be hard to claim that the slowing is unrelated to the weather (and it’s going to be nigh impossible to keep people indoors).
     
  54. @Anonymouse
    not really OT

    Joker the movie is visually a good representation of the NYCscape. With liberal borrowings from the King of Comedy and the white dude that shot up 4 young blacks in a subway car, and the Adam Sandler gag about promising not to look while he washed your grandmother, the hero is life-damaged through no fault of his own. The degree of mean-spiritedness that is assigned to the folks Joker works with is not very high, just coarse. There is no denouement to the movie, at the end Jocker seems to be in a lunatic asylum. A friend, an admirer of Joker, explained away the lack of a denouement by pointing out that the movie is a prequel therefore does not require one. The King of Comedy's denouement was Rupert Pupkin the worst comic in the world actually knocking the audience dead on TV and becoming the new King of comedy.

    Can it be that there is no denouement in history? Speaking for myself, coping, I am struck by the oddness of this moment in history. The permanent re-ordering of a good deal of work hitherto done in office aggregations to Internet connectivity is likely. There is a 66 story building being built right next to our older apartment house. As the city (Austin) has decreed an end to construction, I believe the builders are winding down this early stage about 6 months into the project with the cement walls in place going down about 4 storys and the last of the fill being removed. The locals have not been informed whether said 66 story skyscaper will be offices or residences. The city is semed with skyscrapers, office buildings and residential, the previous tallest a 55 story residential bldg. There is a 44 story residential tower built with Chinese money a Chinese friend of mine told me. Last time I drove past it about 2 months ago, none of the balconies sported furniture. By analogy I would assume that the next door project is residential. The office buildings dont have balconies. No traffic no sirens. 6 deaths so far. >400 infected at last count.

    There is a 44 story residential tower built with Chinese money a Chinese friend of mine told me.

    I can assure you the plan is to market much of that tower to Chinese. I don’t know how many Chinese are in Austin, but my guess is the answer is “a lot, with plenty more on the way.”

    When Coronachan is over, I expect the Chinese invasion will resume its normal pace.

    • Replies: @bomag
    A close acquaintance did a slow travel through Asia/Europe a couple years ago. At one reflection session, he casually remarked that there was a marked Chinese presence/influence everywhere he went.
  55. @Buzz Mohawk
    All I can say is that question could only have come from a Californian.

    Sorry I don't have numbers for it, but Philly is nothing like NYC. The right question would be, "How is Philadelphia like New York City?" That way you're asking for a shorter list.

    Philadelphia is a Northeastern Chicago.

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    Rizzo was a cheap imitation of Hizzoner. I mean the real one, not the kid Richie.

    And yet: there is something to be said about organized crime preventing unorganized crime. Who better? Booze, prostitution, gambling, they'll all go on, regardless of who is in charge. But if the former consists of men who are hard, brutalized, but understand the damned basics in life and don't tolerate your standard issue child molester and related human scum, they ultimately have their place.

    , @Flip
    Chicago is much denser. Philadelphia reminds me more of Boston.
  56. @Jack Armstrong
    OFF TOPIC:

    Linda Tripp, the career civil servant who ignited the impeachment of President Bill Clinton by tape-recording his mistress, has died. She was 70.

    Cause of death? Not listed.

    Cause of death? Not listed.

    She choked on her own bile.

    • Replies: @anon
    She choked on her own bile.

    Very liberal-minded of you, Jonathan. It is obvious you are a great humanitarian and true Christian.
  57. @Hibernian
    Philadelphia is a Northeastern Chicago.

    Rizzo was a cheap imitation of Hizzoner. I mean the real one, not the kid Richie.

    And yet: there is something to be said about organized crime preventing unorganized crime. Who better? Booze, prostitution, gambling, they’ll all go on, regardless of who is in charge. But if the former consists of men who are hard, brutalized, but understand the damned basics in life and don’t tolerate your standard issue child molester and related human scum, they ultimately have their place.

    • Replies: @Oo-ee-oo-ah-ah-ting-tang-walla-walla-bing-bang
    This is the Japanese model, and it is very effective for them.
    , @MBlanc46
    Places such as Melrose Park were very safe.
    , @KPCunchy
    Frank Rizzo was nothing like Mayor Daley, a machine politician. Rizzo was first and foremost a cop who won election inspite of the entrenched Democrat party machine. Rizzo never really controlled the city the way Daley controlled everything in Chicago.
  58. @Jack Armstrong
    OFF TOPIC:

    Linda Tripp, the career civil servant who ignited the impeachment of President Bill Clinton by tape-recording his mistress, has died. She was 70.

    Cause of death? Not listed.

    Pancreatic cancer.

  59. @PiltdownMan
    Not OT:

    German antibody study indicates fatality rate of 0.37 percent

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/08/coronavirus-latest-news-2/#link-2H64MNBNRVCWJPBJQTVLVHCZ4E

    Scheiße, that’s huge. No wonder they don’t want news of that out.

    There’s no way in ****ing hell the current order makes it out of this alive. I know it in my bones. The stench of decay has been out there for the past decade, but now? Now we need to start speaking about what comes next.

    There’s no going back: this pandemic is going to change things, no matter how many people it does or does not kill. It hit a decaying, useless order like a truck, and that’s all that matters. Good riddance, too. How stupid, how utterly useless do you need to be to squander the unprecedented potential that the US had after the USSR imploded?

    • Replies: @AnotherDad


    How stupid, how utterly useless do you need to be to squander the unprecedented potential that the US had after the USSR imploded?
     
    As utterly stupid as this is from the perspective of national governance, it really isn't a function of "stupidity".

    It's having an elite that is alienated from the nation--doesn't not think of the nation as a nation but merely as its marketplace.

    Those attitudes are obvious--omnipresent in elite media. Allowing such people any say, tolerating even a whiff of such attitudes in our national life was a grave mistake.
    , @Charles Erwin Wilson Three

    How stupid, how utterly useless do you need to be to squander the unprecedented potential that the US had after the USSR imploded?
     
    Stupid enough to be George H.W. Bush with his Woodrow Wilson perspective. Bush the Elder had an unholy combination of hubris, privilege, and misguided noblesse oblige, which he conveyed to Bush the Lesser.
    , @Bill Jones
    That's only a million + tax. A rounding error in the census if the current outreach program is any indication.
    Just a bit of a blip in the deaths caused by medical errors stat.
    Nothing to see here, Move along now please.
  60. 100 % of the difference is due to the fact the NYC is a place where the sun don’t shine. No vitamin D = susceptibility to seasonal Flu/etc.

    Combine this with the truly stupendous dishonesty of the medical community claiming every death where a Corona virus was present at time of death as a Covid-19 death, and you have some kind of numbers. ……. the worthless kind.

  61. Are these differences just due to random initial events,

    The commuter belts hardest hit have been New Orleans, New York, and Detroit. The type of initial event, followed by ready vectors, followed by early responses, followed by climate would appear to be what influences the course of the epidemic. Seattle of late has not seen an abnormal death toll, so it would appear that the initial alarm bell had an effect on behavior.

  62. @Anonymous
    Raised in NYC, have worked in Philly for 20 years. The population density in Philly is remarkably lower, no real comparable highly-used subway system like NYC or London. Center City itself is small. Philly is laid out like a Midwestern or Western US City, much more drivable, workers more isolated in cars. Also not much International and Corporate/ Political travel relative to NYC or even DC.

    Philly is basically a “town” with a numerically declining population and is eminently more Suburban focused in nature. Never even built a skyscraper until 1980s. Much of its Corporate world moved out to the Western Suburbs in the 1960s. Great place, but very provincial, thrives on not trying to be NYC & DC.

    Never even built a skyscraper until 1980s.

    For someone who has worked in Philly for 20 years, you show remarkable ignorance.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSFS_Building

    Philadelphia at one time had an unwritten “gentleman’s agreement”, enforced by city planner Edmund Bacon (father of the actor Kevin) that no skyscraper would rise higher than City Hall (548′). But there were plenty of skyscrapers, they were just all 50 floors or less.

    This was finally broken in the ’80s by 1 Liberty Place (a Chrysler Building ripoff).

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Well aware of that agreement and how The Rouse Corp pushed to build big buildings West of City Hall.

    PFSF isn’t really a big building by any modern skyscraper standard. So it is correct to say that not until the late 1980s did Philly have its modern skyline that looked anything higher than Des Moines or Tulsa.
    , @Paleo Liberal
    I went to college outside Philly in the late 70s and early 80s.

    In those days, as the saying went, no building was higher than Billy Penn's hat.

    Although there were buildings literally across the street from City Hall that came very close to Mr. Penn in height.

    Center City had a rather different character in those days. There are only a few cities remaining with that sort of restriction. Washington, DC is one, and, on a smaller scale, Madison, WI. It always seems rather strange to see big cities without any real skyscrapers.
    , @Grumpy
    It's always sad when building traditions like the height limit in Philadelphia are broken. It can't really be undone.

    The most beautiful European cities respect strict height limits. The tallest building in Europe opened recently in St. Petersburg, Russia, and it looks completely and bizarrely out of place. The fairly recent skyscraper additions to the London skyline are hideous.

    Stately and spacious college campuses are easily ruined by one president who is too eager to build. It takes effort to respect limits, but they are there for a reason.
  63. @Steve Sailer
    Downtown Philadelphia is pretty awesome. City Hall, for example, is jaw-dropping.

    I’m glad someone appreciates my home town. Thanks, Steve. I think Philadelphia is much more provincial than New York. Very few people move out of the area or travel internationally, and it’s less of an international travel destination. Someone else also mentioned the subway system, which is tiny compared with New York.

  64. As someone who lives in downtown Philly I think the difference is that Philly shut things down sooner. All my friends were working at home when my brother, who lives in NYC and actually did catch coronavirus (he’s better now), was still being required to go into work.

  65. @Anonymous
    Raised in NYC, have worked in Philly for 20 years. The population density in Philly is remarkably lower, no real comparable highly-used subway system like NYC or London. Center City itself is small. Philly is laid out like a Midwestern or Western US City, much more drivable, workers more isolated in cars. Also not much International and Corporate/ Political travel relative to NYC or even DC.

    Philly is basically a “town” with a numerically declining population and is eminently more Suburban focused in nature. Never even built a skyscraper until 1980s. Much of its Corporate world moved out to the Western Suburbs in the 1960s. Great place, but very provincial, thrives on not trying to be NYC & DC.

    Former New Yorker here–who spent the last 20+ years in Philly. Philly is not as jam-packed as NYC, no US city really is. Sheer density plus a rather good subway system (compared to other US cities it is rather efficient) that much of the population uses are key factors in NYC. Philly is more suburban focused and Center City and the neighborhoods in and around it are just not that crowded. SEPTA (our transit system) is not at all as ubiquitous as the subway is in NYC–far from it. Philly is not a major national or international destination for business or tourism and our immigrant population is not at all as robust as or as proportionally as large as NYC which is super diverse. Queens alone (2M + pop.) is probably one of the most divers counties/areas in the world.

    Steve, you’d be interested to know real estate prices are not at all bad for a large east coast city–even taking into account lower wages. It’s possible for a yuppie couple to buy a house in a decent part of town in their 20s. Private school tuition is also much lower than other east coast towns.

    Philly’s # of dead as of today is in the 60s–which, while 1 is too many, is rather low. We were expecting a tidal wave of cases by now. Actually, other US cities (e.g. Boston, SF, LA, Seattle, Chicago), while having more than Philly, do not have bad numbers at all at this point.

    At the end of the day, Philly is less crowded, less diverse and more provincial. That helped us in this situation.

  66. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Never even built a skyscraper until 1980s.
     
    For someone who has worked in Philly for 20 years, you show remarkable ignorance.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSFS_Building

    Philadelphia at one time had an unwritten "gentleman's agreement", enforced by city planner Edmund Bacon (father of the actor Kevin) that no skyscraper would rise higher than City Hall (548'). But there were plenty of skyscrapers, they were just all 50 floors or less.

    This was finally broken in the '80s by 1 Liberty Place (a Chrysler Building ripoff).

    Well aware of that agreement and how The Rouse Corp pushed to build big buildings West of City Hall.

    PFSF isn’t really a big building by any modern skyscraper standard. So it is correct to say that not until the late 1980s did Philly have its modern skyline that looked anything higher than Des Moines or Tulsa.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    In Des Moines in the early to mid '70s the new 20 story Ruan Center developed by the family which owned Ruan Trucking Co. was the tallest in Des Moines and a big deal. One of their kids was a neighbor of mine in the dorm at Iowa State.
  67. @PiltdownMan
    Not OT:

    German antibody study indicates fatality rate of 0.37 percent

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/08/coronavirus-latest-news-2/#link-2H64MNBNRVCWJPBJQTVLVHCZ4E

    Thanks Piltdown.

    Finally some people going and getting the data. (Something “public health authorities” seem pretty uninterested in doing.)

    This is back in the ballpark i’ve been suggesting from the beginning based on Diamond Princess (age adjusted).

    I hope it holds up in other studies other places and then we can gradually build a consensus against the hysteria and AWFL response and work toward something more manly, logical, sound–grounded in data and reasonable understanding of “life”.

  68. Hail says: • Website
    @Daniel Williams
    I bet it’s the subway. I bet that’s how it spread, with low-paid nursing home attendees and nurses picking it up there and spreading it to the olds they’re in charge of.

    The NYC subway is unlike any other mass transit system in the United States. The Philly thing is like the DC metro or Trimet in Portland or whatever—the answer to a riddle, not serious everyday transportation for a huge portion of a world-class city’s population.

    New York subways are busier, grosser, and better utilized than anything in Philadelphia. They go more places more often, and link more people. I have a hard time imagining a better way to spread a respiratory infection.

    Of all the effects of the Great Hysteria Pandemic of 2020, one that an unfortunately large number of people are making is: Public transportation is an extreme health danger and so should be reduced to save lives, or something. (I am not saying you are saying so, but some are; it’s not a giant logical leap).

    Given that The Scary New Coronavirus might produce an entirely unremarkable spike-in-seasonal-flu-like death toll, if public transportation suffers from this, it’s yet another long-term net loss from the evil beast of CoronaPanic/CoronaHoax.

    • Replies: @415 reasons
    If there are only a large seasonal flu’s worth of deaths in the immediate stages of this crisis it will only be because of the massive interventions we’ve made and the tremendous cost we’ve paid to avoid it being far worse. Were the overflowing ICUs in Italy, NYC, Spain, Wuhan, etc. not sufficient evidence to infer what happens if you let it rip?
    , @vhrm

    Given that The Scary New Coronavirus might produce an entirely unremarkable spike-in-seasonal-flu-like death toll, if public transportation suffers from this, it’s yet another long-term net loss from the evil beast of CoronaPanic/CoronaHoax.
     
    Or we add better ventilation and filtration to stations and vehicles.

    Would likely help with existing crop of colds and flu as well as future ones.
  69. Speaking of places in Pennsylvania, an article from the Pocono Record of Stroudsburg, PA indicates that the Democrat governor’s moronic “non-essential business” is hurting homemade mask production.

    The Democrat regime in Harrisburg ordered all craft stores to close, forcing seamstresses to rely on Wal-Mart. Now Wal-Mart is starting to shut down on sewing sales as well.

    I’ve said it before many times here on Unz in recent weeks: this is not a true lock down. In many American states, the administrations are forcing people to rely on multinational companies who don’t give a damn.

    https://www.poconorecord.com/news/20200408/walmart-cuts-off-crafters

  70. @Steve Sailer
    The southwest Georgia hotspot has to do with a big funeral for a janitor with 9 siblings.

    Like I say, a lot of the superspreader events have been highly respectable.

    > a lot of the superspreader events have been highly respectable.

    RNA testing capacity is growing, but the 30% false-negative rate isn’t being solved. Looks like it can’t be solved; the problem is that ~30% of infected people shed too little virus for a sensitive test to detect.

    On the other hand, superspreaders shed lots of virus into their saliva, mucus, breath. That’s what makes them super.

    Point-of-care and fast-turnaround tests are generally less sensitive than those done in a central lab. I calculated that Abbott’s ID Now PoC test is about tenfold worse in that regard.

    All of these tests will be excellent for identifying asymptomatic superspreaders. The challenges are to (1) figure out who to test first, (2) set up procedures for weekly testing, (3) pay for it.

    This is something that Trump, Cuomo, de Blasio, Birx, et al should be talking about.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    Here is a related idea I haven't seen (though somebody's surely thought of it already).

    A crash program to develop a Superspreader test.

    Instead of aiming for the hard problem of detecting 10 viruses (lab tests) or 100 viruses (Abbott ID Now), design a PoC test that catches the low end of the superspreader spectrum. Whatever that number is -- 10,000 viruses? -- it'll be much easier to do. An antibody-based dipstick test to detect SARS-CoV-2 spike protein in saliva might work.

    Although it's for a screening application, the false-positive rate doesn't have to be ideally low: positives can be automatically referred to a better test, such as an ID Now.

    The model would be airport security. In order enter a high-risk situation, you have to pass the screen. Concert, Disney World, plane flight, Mardi Gras.

    Yes, this has negative civil-liberties implications. We could have a conversation. At least it would be about something meaningful.
  71. @utu
    Population density
    Philadelphia 4,337.3/km²

    The City of NY 10,194/km²
    Manhattan 27,826/km²
    Brooklyn 14,649/km²
    Bronx 13,231/km²
    Queens 8,354/km²

    Philly’s slums are more bombed out and spread out than NYC’s crappy but far from Philly-crappy inner-city neighborhoods.

  72. A study claims only 6% of all Covid-19 cases have actually been detected. If so, then the mortality rate is pretty low.

    http://www.uni-goettingen.de/en/606540.html

  73. @PiltdownMan
    Not OT:

    German antibody study indicates fatality rate of 0.37 percent

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/08/coronavirus-latest-news-2/#link-2H64MNBNRVCWJPBJQTVLVHCZ4E

    But there is a caveat, isn’t there?

    There are a lot of corona viruses, including 8 strains from “COVID-19.” So a test result that says someone had corona virus antibodies does not necessarily mean they had COVID-19.

  74. @Mr McKenna
    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be 'inclusive' with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one's interested any more. And even when "Americans" visit Washington, the main things they want to see are the Spy Museum, the Holocaust Museum, and maybe the gemological exhibit at the Smithsonian.

    The National Museum of African American History and Culture has been popular since it opened a few years ago, but places like Independence Hall and Williamsburg are seen as too 'white' and as you know, the Flight From White includes most white people.

    https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/68f6ec2/2147483647/strip/true/crop/5360x3015+0+449/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmediaassets.wtkr.com%2Ftribune-network%2Ftribwtkr-files-wordpress%2F2016%2F07%2Fvirginia-colonial-williamsburg.jpg

    I hope Colonial Williamsburg is able to continue in some form, like you said, there have been articles about their revenue struggles for a couple of years now. This will be an interesting topic to watch as we come out of this shutdown. How many organizations that rely heavily on donations don’t make successfully out the other side. Another area to watch is how many private colleges are unable to resume classes in the fall.

  75. @Whiskey
    NYC has a lot more Asians. Including people who presumably traveled from Wu Flu central, "Bat City" Wuhan to NYC.

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto. It is what Detroit aspired to be but could not become, the true Wakanda. BLACK in all senses of the word. No Asian would go there and expect to make it out alive. Its a WorldStarHipHop city.

    Its like Africa. Chinese there don't associate with Africans so they might as well be on another planet.

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto.

    I assume you haven’t been to Philadelphia in many decades, if ever? Philly certainly does have a large black population but it’s not like Detroit at all. It has a white mayor. It has gentrified areas, major universities and hospitals, a downtown business district, museums and other tourist attractions, a (formerly) thriving restaurant and bar scene, newly built skyscrapers and residential new construction. It’s main train station is (was) heavily used and is not an abandoned ruin like Detroit’s. It’s more like Chicago than Detroit.

    • Agree: Hibernian, ic1000, Testing12
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    While all these stated things are true, I assume you're overlooking a major stat: Violent crime, of which Philadelphia leads PA and has for several decades. For the longest time, including into the 2010's it was considered a murder capital. Not anywhere near on the level of Detroit, but still a significant part of the city's makeup. And like Detroit, Phily remains majority black. Blacks are also becoming a major stat within COVID-19 infections.

    For the small amount of land, Philly is also densely populated, hence the reason it has a high COVID-19 infection rate. If it weren't for Philly's numbers (as well as the counties nearby), PA would not have a high COVID-19 total infection number.
    , @William Badwhite

    I assume you haven’t been to Philadelphia in many decades, if ever?
     
    As far as we can tell, he's never been out of his house, much less to Philadelphia.

    Jack surely you know by now that simple constraints such as having no idea what he's talking about aren't going to slow down Whiskey. "White women love love love ghetto blacks and murderers", etc etc.
    , @Wake up
    “Philly has a white mayor”. Now that’s funny! Mayor Jim Kenney panders to Blacks more than Joe Biden! Mayor Kenney is a hard-core Leftist, much like Mayor de Blasio. Philly has more murders than New York, and who does Mayor Kenney blame? Racism & President Trump.
    , @Johann Ricke


    @Whiskey

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto.

     

    I assume you haven’t been to Philadelphia in many decades, if ever?
     
    Everything Whiskey knows about Philly, he learned from Harrison Ford's "Witness" and the Rocky movies.
    , @Ron Mexico
    The only part about Detroit that you got right is the shitty People Mover. Detroit even has a white mayor.
    , @nebulafox
    Detroit's downtown core has been getting better in the post-Great Recession era-there are now tons of businesses and residential complexes and general life you would have never seen in 2012. The midtown around WSU got some spillover gains from the downtown revitalization, too.

    But everything outside of that is still a no-go zone, and downtown apartments have Brazilian-level security. Think the Badlands or Chicago's Southside, but in Detroit, it covers most of the city area rather than being a pocket.

  76. OT. What do you think about Robert Christgau, Steve? I don’t think you’ve ever written about him.

    • Replies: @peterike

    OT. What do you think about Robert Christgau, Steve? I don’t think you’ve ever written about him.

     

    Xgau (as they call him) is a fairly useful guide up through about the 80s, though not without his many blind-spots like a lot of critics. But the rise of hiphop -- which as a doctrinaire ultra-Progressive he of course loves -- washed away whatever critical acumen the guy had left.

    Also, his rating system simply doesn't work across genres and long time periods. You end up with situations where an album like Sandinista! gets an A-, which might have made some sense in 1981 (though in retrospect I think it's even better than London Calling), and then something like Britney Spears' Glory is also an A-. And maybe that makes sense in 2016 and in pop vs. rock. But you can't simply say they are both A- records and have it make any kind of sense.

    He's an interesting long-form writer, and has done some really good work in that regard. But politically he's so lunatic that you have to ignore it. He seriously believes that Trump has ushered in Fascism in America, and he wrote a long piece pre-election extolling the many virtues of Hillary. And he is a standard issue anti-white white and anti-male male. In his review of The River, he noted that Springsteen was "too white and too male, though he's decent enough to wish he weren't," which is actually a good catch of the miserable race- and class-traitor Springsteen became, but Christgau means it as a compliment. There are hundreds of such examples.

    Anyway, I know way too much about this topic.
  77. @Mr McKenna
    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be 'inclusive' with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one's interested any more. And even when "Americans" visit Washington, the main things they want to see are the Spy Museum, the Holocaust Museum, and maybe the gemological exhibit at the Smithsonian.

    The National Museum of African American History and Culture has been popular since it opened a few years ago, but places like Independence Hall and Williamsburg are seen as too 'white' and as you know, the Flight From White includes most white people.

    https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/68f6ec2/2147483647/strip/true/crop/5360x3015+0+449/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmediaassets.wtkr.com%2Ftribune-network%2Ftribwtkr-files-wordpress%2F2016%2F07%2Fvirginia-colonial-williamsburg.jpg

    I don’t think it’s lack of interest so much as remoteness. You only see Williamsburg VA if you go specifically for that. Whereas plenty of Washington DC or NY sites get traffic because tourists are there for a host of other reasons.

    Another thing about Williamsburg is that it’s pretty low key — an elongated commons and the streets around it with their old houses. IOW the opposite of Disneyland.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
    However, Williamsburg is no more remote now than it was when its visitors peaked in 1984 (thanks to the other contributor for that). Arguably less since we had that stupid 55mph national speed limit back then, which made every place further in a sense. It's definitely lack of interest, though it can certainly be argued that the lack of interest is an artifact of cultural trends which themselves are certainly no accident.
  78. @Steve Sailer
    Downtown Philadelphia is pretty awesome. City Hall, for example, is jaw-dropping.

    City Hall is the world’s tallest free standing masonry building at 548′ (St. Peter’s in Rome is 100′ shorter). It is as tall as many skyscrapers but it’s not a skyscraper. (The difference between a skyscraper and a masonry building is like the difference between a human and an insect – a skyscraper has a skeleton on the inside. The outside walls of a masonry building carry the entire load). The stone walls are 22′ thick at the bottom to carry all that weight.

    At the top is a clock tower section (clock faces are bigger than Big Ben) with a cast iron skin and a hand riveted steel supports on the inside. They hadn’t really figured out how to build a building out of steel so there are braces and turnbuckles going off in all directions – looking at that it’s hard to imagine how you could ever make a steel building such that it would have usable interior space.

    It took 30 years to build and was accompanied by epic corruption.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Jack, Great photo and comment. The lattice work columns and diagonal braces (you use the term turnbuckles) were common features of early steel construction. Rivets were the fastener of choice because high tensil structural bolts were not invented. The structural steel that you show here was common in bridge construction and steel mills.
  79. @Anonymous
    Raised in NYC, have worked in Philly for 20 years. The population density in Philly is remarkably lower, no real comparable highly-used subway system like NYC or London. Center City itself is small. Philly is laid out like a Midwestern or Western US City, much more drivable, workers more isolated in cars. Also not much International and Corporate/ Political travel relative to NYC or even DC.

    Philly is basically a “town” with a numerically declining population and is eminently more Suburban focused in nature. Never even built a skyscraper until 1980s. Much of its Corporate world moved out to the Western Suburbs in the 1960s. Great place, but very provincial, thrives on not trying to be NYC & DC.

    Very interesting, thanks.

  80. The difference between Philly and NYC is like that of the CPD vs Law & Order TV shows. (I like the CPD show because when we say a CPD cop will shoot you for crossing from EL train car to another, we got video to back that. “CPD” informs the world of that reality.)

    This is how a Black Philly Mayor deals with thugs: straight out of Apocalypse Now!

  81. @ic1000
    > a lot of the superspreader events have been highly respectable.

    RNA testing capacity is growing, but the 30% false-negative rate isn't being solved. Looks like it can't be solved; the problem is that ~30% of infected people shed too little virus for a sensitive test to detect.

    On the other hand, superspreaders shed lots of virus into their saliva, mucus, breath. That's what makes them super.

    Point-of-care and fast-turnaround tests are generally less sensitive than those done in a central lab. I calculated that Abbott's ID Now PoC test is about tenfold worse in that regard.

    All of these tests will be excellent for identifying asymptomatic superspreaders. The challenges are to (1) figure out who to test first, (2) set up procedures for weekly testing, (3) pay for it.

    This is something that Trump, Cuomo, de Blasio, Birx, et al should be talking about.

    Here is a related idea I haven’t seen (though somebody’s surely thought of it already).

    A crash program to develop a Superspreader test.

    Instead of aiming for the hard problem of detecting 10 viruses (lab tests) or 100 viruses (Abbott ID Now), design a PoC test that catches the low end of the superspreader spectrum. Whatever that number is — 10,000 viruses? — it’ll be much easier to do. An antibody-based dipstick test to detect SARS-CoV-2 spike protein in saliva might work.

    Although it’s for a screening application, the false-positive rate doesn’t have to be ideally low: positives can be automatically referred to a better test, such as an ID Now.

    The model would be airport security. In order enter a high-risk situation, you have to pass the screen. Concert, Disney World, plane flight, Mardi Gras.

    Yes, this has negative civil-liberties implications. We could have a conversation. At least it would be about something meaningful.

    • Agree: 415 reasons
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    ic1000 -- i wanted to thank you for consistently bringing good stuff to the table.

    The issue of differing susceptibility--do some people just "not get it"--that you brought up a few days ago was very interesting and i think important. (Between you and JackD's responses most of my speculations were covered.)

    This issue of testing--not perfection but getting the functionality that matters for real world use is another great point.

    Good work.
    , @Mr. Anon

    Yes, this has negative civil-liberties implications. We could have a conversation. At least it would be about something meaningful.
     
    Or we could just behave as free people in a free country.

    "Have a conversation." We all know what that means in contemporary America: Shut up and do what I say.
  82. @Steve Sailer
    The southwest Georgia hotspot has to do with a big funeral for a janitor with 9 siblings.

    Like I say, a lot of the superspreader events have been highly respectable.

    Right behind NYC, NOLA, & Albany, Ga in US corona deaths per capita is SE Indiana where I come from. One of the main vectors there I think was the high school basketball tournament.

  83. @Mr McKenna
    Wow, David Cole's even more on point. Linking just FYI.


    If the CCP vanished tomorrow, the wet markets would still be there in China, along with the seeds of the next, worse SARS and COVID. And yes, U.S. officials on all sides bungled the COVID response; no one is without error in this catastrophe. But if Trump, Pence, Pelosi, Schumer, and Cuomo vanished tomorrow, the wet markets would still be there in China, along with the seeds of the next, worse SARS and COVID.

    From this point on, there can be nothing that takes priority over shutting down the Chinese exotic-animal trade and wet markets. Nothing.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/wuhan-derangement-syndrome/
     

    David Cole is wrong. The Covid-19 outbreak has nothing to do with the wet market, and everything to do with the Wuhan bioweapons lab and the bureucratic bungling of the CCP. A chinese emperor would have done a far more effective job.

    • Agree: FPD72
  84. @t
    Here's a map of Covid cases by zip code in Philadelphia(the green one at the bottom of the page)
    https://www.phila.gov/programs/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/testing-and-data/

    I don't know much about the demographic geography of Philadelphia but some quick research shows that the ZIPs with the lowest cases level, 19137 and 19134, are working to lower middle class white/hispanic areas while the hardest hit zip codes like 19124 and 19141 are black.

    Philadelphian here. The <20% zips are where white people live.

  85. eD says:
    @AnonAnon
    Californians are pathetic when it comes to venturing farther east in the US than Las Vegas. If their kids are lucky their parents will spring for an extracurricular whirlwind one week 8th grade summer trip to DC, Philly, and NY. I can’t blame us, since my east coast husband I became Californians 20+ years ago we’ve only vacationed once back to NYC/Boston with the kids to see our relatives. The west coast (including Hawaii since it’s so “close” for us) is so spectacularly beautiful there really isn’t much of a compelling reason to go back.

    I am from and have lived most of my life in the Northeast, and have only been to California maybe half a dozen times, and to Southern California only once, but despite never having been to San Diego, somehow I realize that Los Angeles and San Diego are very different places.

  86. @ic1000
    Here is a related idea I haven't seen (though somebody's surely thought of it already).

    A crash program to develop a Superspreader test.

    Instead of aiming for the hard problem of detecting 10 viruses (lab tests) or 100 viruses (Abbott ID Now), design a PoC test that catches the low end of the superspreader spectrum. Whatever that number is -- 10,000 viruses? -- it'll be much easier to do. An antibody-based dipstick test to detect SARS-CoV-2 spike protein in saliva might work.

    Although it's for a screening application, the false-positive rate doesn't have to be ideally low: positives can be automatically referred to a better test, such as an ID Now.

    The model would be airport security. In order enter a high-risk situation, you have to pass the screen. Concert, Disney World, plane flight, Mardi Gras.

    Yes, this has negative civil-liberties implications. We could have a conversation. At least it would be about something meaningful.

    ic1000 — i wanted to thank you for consistently bringing good stuff to the table.

    The issue of differing susceptibility–do some people just “not get it”–that you brought up a few days ago was very interesting and i think important. (Between you and JackD’s responses most of my speculations were covered.)

    This issue of testing–not perfection but getting the functionality that matters for real world use is another great point.

    Good work.

    • Thanks: ic1000
  87. @Jack D

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto.
     
    I assume you haven't been to Philadelphia in many decades, if ever? Philly certainly does have a large black population but it's not like Detroit at all. It has a white mayor. It has gentrified areas, major universities and hospitals, a downtown business district, museums and other tourist attractions, a (formerly) thriving restaurant and bar scene, newly built skyscrapers and residential new construction. It's main train station is (was) heavily used and is not an abandoned ruin like Detroit's. It's more like Chicago than Detroit.

    While all these stated things are true, I assume you’re overlooking a major stat: Violent crime, of which Philadelphia leads PA and has for several decades. For the longest time, including into the 2010’s it was considered a murder capital. Not anywhere near on the level of Detroit, but still a significant part of the city’s makeup. And like Detroit, Phily remains majority black. Blacks are also becoming a major stat within COVID-19 infections.

    For the small amount of land, Philly is also densely populated, hence the reason it has a high COVID-19 infection rate. If it weren’t for Philly’s numbers (as well as the counties nearby), PA would not have a high COVID-19 total infection number.

    • Replies: @Hibernian

    And like Detroit, Phily remains majority black.
     
    45% each white and black, 10% all others (Hispanic & Asian.)
  88. eD says:
    @Mr McKenna
    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be 'inclusive' with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one's interested any more. And even when "Americans" visit Washington, the main things they want to see are the Spy Museum, the Holocaust Museum, and maybe the gemological exhibit at the Smithsonian.

    The National Museum of African American History and Culture has been popular since it opened a few years ago, but places like Independence Hall and Williamsburg are seen as too 'white' and as you know, the Flight From White includes most white people.

    https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/68f6ec2/2147483647/strip/true/crop/5360x3015+0+449/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmediaassets.wtkr.com%2Ftribune-network%2Ftribwtkr-files-wordpress%2F2016%2F07%2Fvirginia-colonial-williamsburg.jpg

    “Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be ‘inclusive’ with a several dozen slavery exhibits.”

    This claim took me by surprise, but I googled “number of visitors to Colonial Williamsburg” and found a local news article from 2017 stating that the number of visitors peaked in 1984 at 1.1 million, when my parents took me there, and by 2016 had been halved, to 564,000. The population of the USA as a whole grew by 110 million during this time.

    “Close up shop” might be an exaggeration. The non-profit that runs Colonial Williamsburg gets most of its support from corporate donors, and it would take a bigger shift in the culture to get to a situation where no one pays for the upkeep of the historic buildings. I could see that happening -the article on Independence Hall posted earlier by another commentator stated that was going to be demolished until the Philadelphia city government bought it- but we are not quite there yet.

    My opinion on the visitor receipts is that the foundation should be investing in hotels, and pretty much be selling the experience as a sort of luxury vacation where a customer stays in a luxury hotel and gets tour of the buildings (you can pay to stay in the historic buildings even now). This would cope with the decline/ vanishing of the American middle class, which I suspect is the real reason behind the declining visitor totals, as it affects the park. With the shutdown of small businesses (and also educational institutions, and the latest Big Bailout, the decline of the American middle class will only accelerate and in fact this event could finish it off. Nor does it help Colonial Williamsburg, which according to the website is closed temporarily, though only small numbers of people at the time could visit the historical buildings anyway.

    • Replies: @Alice
    btw, CW just revamped their high end hotel for this very reason.

    I wrote below a comment about what is happening to CW. Like attendance at the monuments in DC, it relies on patriotism. that's not a virtue families or achools inculcate anymore.
    , @Anon
    Eras in history go through fads in which they are rediscovered. The Colonial era just isn't in vogue at the moment. Right now, it's Downtown Abbey-era Britain. When Ken Burns did his Civil War series on TV some years back, the Civil War era was all the rage, though that's declined quite a bit. It would give Williamsburg a boom if someone created a Colonial era TV series--but without all the PC nonsense.

    Anyway, I've been to Williamsburg, but wasn't very impressed by it. I thought the recreation of Louisbourg in Canada was much better. It's even larger than Williamsburg, and a lot more grand and imposing.
  89. @nebulafox
    Scheiße, that's huge. No wonder they don't want news of that out.

    There's no way in ****ing hell the current order makes it out of this alive. I know it in my bones. The stench of decay has been out there for the past decade, but now? Now we need to start speaking about what comes next.

    There's no going back: this pandemic is going to change things, no matter how many people it does or does not kill. It hit a decaying, useless order like a truck, and that's all that matters. Good riddance, too. How stupid, how utterly useless do you need to be to squander the unprecedented potential that the US had after the USSR imploded?

    How stupid, how utterly useless do you need to be to squander the unprecedented potential that the US had after the USSR imploded?

    As utterly stupid as this is from the perspective of national governance, it really isn’t a function of “stupidity”.

    It’s having an elite that is alienated from the nation–doesn’t not think of the nation as a nation but merely as its marketplace.

    Those attitudes are obvious–omnipresent in elite media. Allowing such people any say, tolerating even a whiff of such attitudes in our national life was a grave mistake.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    It’s having an elite that is alienated from the nation–doesn’t not think of the nation as a nation but merely as its marketplace.
     
    But if you consider the marketplace and don't destroy the entire economy then it's "Die for the Dow".
    , @Lars Porsena
    This seems to me like a direct consequence of having an empire, and while we had already had an empire before the cold war ended (or even started), it certainly was put on steroids when the cold war ended.

    When your elites are ruling many countries other than your own, then your country is just one of many to them that they happen to rule. And the difference between them as international rulers and various types of provincials are magnified, and the differences between the various types of different provincials minimized.
  90. Hail says: • Website

    Why Is Philadelphia Not Much Like New York City?

    What about Hamburg, then, one of Germany’s biggest, densest cities.

    _______________

    Here is Dr. Klaus Püschel:

    Professor Klaus Püschel, head of forensic medicine in Hamburg, explains about Covid19: „This virus influences our lives in a completely excessive way. This is disproportionate to the danger posed by the virus. And the astronomical economic damage now being caused is not commensurate with the danger posed by the virus. I am convinced that the Corona mortality rate will not even show up as a peak in annual mortality.“

    In Hamburg, for example, „not a single person who was not previously ill“ had died of the virus: „All those we have examined so far had cancer, a chronic lung disease, were heavy smokers or severely obese, suffered from diabetes or had a cardiovascular disease. The virus was the last straw that broke the camel’s back, so to speak. „Covid-19 is a fatal disease only in exceptional cases, but in most cases it is a predominantly harmless viral infection.“

    In addition, Dr. Püschel explains: „In quite a few cases, we have also found that the current corona infection has nothing whatsoever to do with the fatal outcome because other causes of death are present, for example a brain haemorrhage or a heart attack. Corona in itself is a „not particularly dangerous viral disease“, says the forensic scientist. He pleads for statistics based on concrete examination results. „All speculations about individual deaths that have not been expertly examined only fuel anxiety.“

    (Translated from Hamburger Morgenpost newspaper.)

    “This man Püschel is clearly a dupe, must’ve fallen for Hoaxer material he read online. He needs to get educated and learn basic facts about this Mass Killer Apocalypse Virus!”

    Oops, he is the Director of the Institute of Forensic Medicine at Hamburg University since 1992. Back to the drawing board for the pro-CoronaPanic’ites.

    • Agree: Mehen
    • Replies: @epebble
    Can the good doctor cite any other epidemic where healthcare workers, policemen, fire department workers, bus drivers, cruise ship customers, grocery workers etc., fall dead like flies? The fear is not over 70+ dying, it is the rather large number of < 60 dying.
  91. @Mr McKenna
    Wow, David Cole's even more on point. Linking just FYI.


    If the CCP vanished tomorrow, the wet markets would still be there in China, along with the seeds of the next, worse SARS and COVID. And yes, U.S. officials on all sides bungled the COVID response; no one is without error in this catastrophe. But if Trump, Pence, Pelosi, Schumer, and Cuomo vanished tomorrow, the wet markets would still be there in China, along with the seeds of the next, worse SARS and COVID.

    From this point on, there can be nothing that takes priority over shutting down the Chinese exotic-animal trade and wet markets. Nothing.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/wuhan-derangement-syndrome/
     

    Great article. Bannon is all over the airwaves with a ‘blame the party’ angle. I’m not sure it’s that simple.

    • Agree: HammerJack
  92. @Mr McKenna
    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be 'inclusive' with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one's interested any more. And even when "Americans" visit Washington, the main things they want to see are the Spy Museum, the Holocaust Museum, and maybe the gemological exhibit at the Smithsonian.

    The National Museum of African American History and Culture has been popular since it opened a few years ago, but places like Independence Hall and Williamsburg are seen as too 'white' and as you know, the Flight From White includes most white people.

    https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/68f6ec2/2147483647/strip/true/crop/5360x3015+0+449/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmediaassets.wtkr.com%2Ftribune-network%2Ftribwtkr-files-wordpress%2F2016%2F07%2Fvirginia-colonial-williamsburg.jpg

    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be ‘inclusive’ with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one’s interested any more.

    For most of the 19th century, Americans were not at all interested in historic buildings. They were just OLD buildings to them and they had no qualms about knocking them down to build something new and better. You can count on the fingers of 1 hand the number of pre-Revolutionary buildings in Manhattan. Williamsburg survived because it was a backwater and no one was interested in building anything new there so they let the colonial buildings just molder without bothering to knock them down. For almost a century, the Levy family pleaded with the US Government to take over Monticello and the government turned them down over and over (despite being offered the place for free). Taking care of old buildings in perpetuity was not the business of government.

    So what changed? A big impetus was that as America was being overwhelmed by the last great wave of immigration, Founding Stock Americans wanted to stake a claim for themselves that they were better than New Americans because their ancestors got here first and were the ones responsible for the great system that we have. Historic buildings were tangible proof of their claim and needed to be preserved. The preservation of Williamsburg dates only to the 1920s.

    And of course they were right – as the new generation of Americans is half white, visits to Williamsburg have fallen by half. If you are a Latino, what Tomas Yefferson was doing in 1776 is of no great concern to you. Latinos don’t really care about history or other book larnin’ type stuff in general, let alone wasting their time walking thru some dusty old building where the white guys in wigs used to debate.

    • Replies: @black sea
    Most of Colonial Williamsburg is actually a 20th century reconstruction. Around 80% of the structures there were built in the 1920s, generally on the foundations of the structures being recreated. It's a bit of a historical Disneyland.
    , @Sam Haysom
    It’s a shame Founding Stock Americans couldn’t have your peoples never waning commitment to place.

    The celery is always greener in someone else’s salt water cup.
    , @SFG
    Eh, I like old stuff. Williamsburg is part of the history of this country and ought to remain as a monument to the people who built it. I don't share any direct ancestors, but I live here, and those men built the country that became the country that became the country that became the country that became the country I live in now. We don't have to do everything the way the old guys did it, but their names ought to stay on the buildings. If I moved to France, I wouldn't demand the demolition of the Dome des Invalides.

    By and large you are correct, though. One of the reasons the Confederacy gets remembered more than the Union (despite losing the war) is the large wave of immigration that flooded through the North shortly afterward. More people could probably name Lee, Stuart, Stonewall Jackson, and Longstreet than the generals who defeated them.
    , @eD
    I mostly agree with this but will focus on two problems I have with this narrative, a minor one and a major one.

    The minor problem is that the reason there are few buildings from the colonial period in New York is that nearly all of them burned down in a fire in 1835 and in similar fires. Its the same reason why its hard to find buildings from the Civil War period in Chicago. The buildings that survived the fire almost all got reserved.

    The second problem is related to a trope I often read on this site and is a logical issue. Immigration would have nothing to do with a decline in attendance at an attraction favored by the "native" non-immigrant population. This is even assuming that the entire population increase of the USA after 1985 was due to immigration and that there was no assimilation whatsoever (it happens that there is evidence to support both of these assumptions). Logically, this could well produce a stagnation in attendance at something like colonial Williamsburg but would not produce a decline in attendance. To get a decline in attendance, you need an absolute decline in the numbers of the native population.

    Well since 1985 there hasn't been a decline in the number of "real" Americans however you define it. But there has been a decline in the number of middle class Americans and this is well documented. This would cause difficulty at institutions catering to the said middle class.
    , @syonredux

    You can count on the fingers of 1 hand the number of pre-Revolutionary buildings in Manhattan.
     
    I've always liked the Morris-Jumel Mansion:

    https://www.revolutionary-war-and-beyond.com/images/morris-jumel-mansion-manhattan-new-york.jpg

    St Paul's Chapel is quite charming. Fun tidbit: Lovecraft (a huge fan of all things pertaining to the 18th century) chose St Paul's as the location of his nuptials to Sonia Greene in 1924:

    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AXPCg_p-XZQ/WCzWbX786JI/AAAAAAAA0-s/d_bC9YgSUNA3FrUmtocnQsSD8cFSSTCmQCLcB/s1600/St-Pauls-Chapel-1.jpg
    , @Anonymous
    Great post by Jack D. If I criticize him when he makes off the wall unsubstantiated claims, I have to praise him when he dispenses truths, especially subtle not immediately intuitive ones. His point underscores the controversy around confederate symbols in the flags of Southern States. Many of these symbols didn't appear in these flags until immediately after WWII when Jim Crow and segregation policies came under attack (e.g. Thurmond's Dixiecrat run in 48 as a reaction to Dems 48 platform). Those who claim that those symbols have no racial connotations and are only meant to honor a Southern heritage of service and courage are dishonest.
    , @XYZ (no Mr.)
    There are a large number of pre-Revolutionary War buildings in Charleston, South Carolina, which certainly wasn't a backwater for the first half of the 19th Century. (And of course many other places.) Your use of Manhattan as representative of overall American views towards history or historic buildings is simply false. Perhaps -- to be clear -- the type of people who inhabited (and inhabit) Manhattan don't give a shit about American history, but other Americans, living elsewhere, do, and always have. But pre-Revolutionary War history is made up of regional history, so it's not surprising at all that people in 19th Century South Carolina, or Vermont, or New York, felt it unnecessary to renovate Jamestown or the Middle Plantation, which was the responsibility of Virginians. And of course when Mount Vernon stopped being an operational plantation in the 1850s, it was shortly put under preservation (by a private group) and opened to the public. All decades and decades before Ellis Island opened.

    So no, the American story is certainly not about you, not all about immigrants, or Americans reactions to immigrants. We have our own proud history as colonists and settlers.
    , @Oscar Peterson

    "Founding Stock Americans wanted to stake a claim for themselves that they were better than New Americans because their ancestors got here first and were the ones responsible for the great system that we have."
     
    Just out of curiosity, what is your evidence for this assertion? Sounds like something that conniving little half-Jew, Richard Hofstadter, would have claimed. Much more likely that there was simply concern among intellectuals, the political class and the wealthy that the memory of the early republic was being lost and preservation would help sustain it. Preservation for Mount Vernon was already underway before the Civil War.

    Most people couldn't travel for touristic purposes until the 20th century, because the transportation network wouldn't support it and they didn't have the disposable income, so there is no reason to think that it was simply a matter of "not caring." And the capital available from the wealthy of the post-Civil War industrial/commercial magnates made preservation a much more viable affair in the late 19th and early 20th century even before the government got involved.

    Preservation is largely a 20th century phenomenon anyway. The National Trust in the UK is a 20th century initiative (started in 1895 and given powers under law in 1907.).
  93. @black sea
    My main understanding of the difference between Philadelphia and New York comes from Diane Keaton's character in Manhattan, who twice utters the line:

    "I'm from Philadelphia; we believe in God. We don't talk about these things."


    I guess Philadelphia is more repressed WASP?

    The movie Manhattan was made in 1979. America was still a nation back then, unaware of the consequences of letting people like Woody Allen influence our culture.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    Heh. That's the year (or was it 1980?) my wife and I, both New Yorkers, saw the film in a theater in Denton, Texas. We were the only ones laughing at the apartment jokes.
  94. Another way that Philly isn’t like NY, is that it tends to lack NY’s arrogance that they and they alone drive the pulse of the rest of the US.

    Inadvertently, a few weeks back, commenter the Future or something with the name future in it (exact name escapes at the moment) seemed to imply that because he was in NY and witnessing lots of infections, some deaths, etc. that “obviously” this was going to be the outcome for the rest of the US.

    Has it?

    NO

    Just one more example of NY arrogance that because it happens to them, it will “obviously” hit the rest of the US at the same rate (both infections and deaths) in due time.

    “What states are there West of the Mississippi?”–NY Gov. Al Smith in 1928, on why he wasn’t campaigning West of the Mississippi.

    For many NYers, there’s not much going on West of the Hudson so this paternalistic condescending attitude toward the US at large isn’t entirely surprising.

    • Agree: Dtbb
  95. @Anonymous
    Raised in NYC, have worked in Philly for 20 years. The population density in Philly is remarkably lower, no real comparable highly-used subway system like NYC or London. Center City itself is small. Philly is laid out like a Midwestern or Western US City, much more drivable, workers more isolated in cars. Also not much International and Corporate/ Political travel relative to NYC or even DC.

    Philly is basically a “town” with a numerically declining population and is eminently more Suburban focused in nature. Never even built a skyscraper until 1980s. Much of its Corporate world moved out to the Western Suburbs in the 1960s. Great place, but very provincial, thrives on not trying to be NYC & DC.

    Philly is laid out like a Midwestern or Western US City, much more drivable, workers more isolated in cars. Also not much International and Corporate/ Political travel relative to NYC or even DC.

    Since Philadelphia was planned by Thomas Holme, William Penn’s Surveyor and friend in the 1600s, I think it’s more accurate to state that Midwestern or Western U.S. Cities are laid out like Philadelphia.

    Interestingly, the layout of the City was dictated in large part by William Penn’s economic straits. Famously, the King of England settled a debt to Penn’s father by grant of land that would be named Pennsylvania. Penn, a Quaker unlike his father and cash poor subdivided Philadelphia for sale – for one low price you would receive a parcel in the center of Philadelphia on which to build a town home, a larger parcel North along the river upon which to build a Country Manor, and a parcel larger still consisting of farmland to the West for productive agricultural use to support yourself and your two other houses.

  96. It is possible that the virus can in some people, cause the heart attack or stroke, either by a direct attack on the lining of the blood vessels, or by severe hypoxia, or by iron toxicity.

    The autopsy would have to be thorough and detailed. You cannot just say, the lungs are not too bad, but here is a dead area in the heart, so MI and not Covid 19.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Seems like using a rare instance as a rationalization, to me.
  97. As a generational Philadelphian, to paraphrase a common local retort with a handwaive: “That’s alright, the coronavirus probably wasn’t that hot anyway. You keep it.”

  98. @AnotherDad


    How stupid, how utterly useless do you need to be to squander the unprecedented potential that the US had after the USSR imploded?
     
    As utterly stupid as this is from the perspective of national governance, it really isn't a function of "stupidity".

    It's having an elite that is alienated from the nation--doesn't not think of the nation as a nation but merely as its marketplace.

    Those attitudes are obvious--omnipresent in elite media. Allowing such people any say, tolerating even a whiff of such attitudes in our national life was a grave mistake.

    It’s having an elite that is alienated from the nation–doesn’t not think of the nation as a nation but merely as its marketplace.

    But if you consider the marketplace and don’t destroy the entire economy then it’s “Die for the Dow”.

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
  99. @Anonymous
    Raised in NYC, have worked in Philly for 20 years. The population density in Philly is remarkably lower, no real comparable highly-used subway system like NYC or London. Center City itself is small. Philly is laid out like a Midwestern or Western US City, much more drivable, workers more isolated in cars. Also not much International and Corporate/ Political travel relative to NYC or even DC.

    Philly is basically a “town” with a numerically declining population and is eminently more Suburban focused in nature. Never even built a skyscraper until 1980s. Much of its Corporate world moved out to the Western Suburbs in the 1960s. Great place, but very provincial, thrives on not trying to be NYC & DC.

    I think an analogy could be made that Philadelphia is similar, but larger than, Baltimore. Maybe not in the context of today’s demographics and politics, but if the physical built environment.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Baltimore only recently adopted other-than-bus mass transit. Sort of like St. Louis and Seattle. It does have an elite University, so there's that.
  100. Outside of double teaming New Jersey (so to speak), New York and Philadelphia don’t have a lot in common.

  101. @black sea
    My parents took me to Jamestown and Williamsburg when I was a kid. It was for me one of the most memorable trips we ever took (we didn't do a lot of travelling to new locales in my childhood).

    I guess there has been a significant drop off of interest in colonial history, but then again, when the whole subject is just one long crime against humanity, I suppose few White people want to dwell on it, and People of Color don't take much interest in history generally.

    I was at CW two Novembers ago. There were literally 3-4k kids there on field trips each day (I counted the buses.) But the Thomas Jefferson talk done by the brilliant TJ reenactor Bill Barker was attended by exactly 3 children, my 3, all homeschooled.

    The schools refused to bring their students, elementary, middle, or high school, to an open forum where they could ask Thomas Jefferson anything. (mine asked about code wheels and secret messages… not exactly political science..sigh)

    It was so depressing. It wasn’t just that the convincing of our children that the Founders were evil and the founding illegitimate has been complete. No, because they didn’t even denouce TJ or heckle his ideas. No, we have been overcome by teachers and students too stupid to even know there were ideas related to the Founding, and none of them have any interest in discussing ideas at all. This discussion of ideas was once known as thinking.

    • Replies: @captflee
    Thank you, ma'm, for giving your offspring what I am sure is a far superior education to that which the vast majority receives, as evidenced by your observations of Colonial Williamsburg.

    Being in part descended from the Jamestown diaspora, and growing up within relatively easy driving distance, I was a bit of a frequent visitor. As the father of a curious and energetic three year old and a then resident of James City County (thus eligible for free or heavily discounted admission to various historical sites) we spent a lot of time in that millenial year at CW.

    One thing that struck me over the years, commencing about 1959, was the bit that they used to do in the Assembly Building where they would have all stand, then commence reading out the requirements for voting, having those unqualified sit as their disqualifying condition (age, sex, value property owned, etc.) was called, until only a precious few remained. Over the years, I noticed that this little cohort grew steadily smaller. The last time, I was "it", the others having failed to surmount the C of E barrier, and I was then still an Episcopalian. How this tracks with post '65 immigration I have thoughts probably best unsaid.

    Some of the re-enactors at CW are indeed very good. I used to rather enjoy their Patrick Henry, anti-federalist that I am.
    , @Kylie
    This may well be the most depressing comment I've ever read here. Not that it comes as any surprise but still...

    It must have been even worse seeing it first-hand.
  102. @Reg Cæsar

    Phillie doesn’t see much tourism, so it’s farther behind the curve.
     
    This alone is a disgrace. Americans aren't very American, are we? Philadelphia should be the first big city we visit. Long before NYC, let alone DC or Orlando.


    Independence National Park Is an Embarrassing Mess. Why Doesn’t Anyone Care?


    https://www.visitphilly.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Behind-Independence-Hall-J-Fusco-2200VP.jpg

    One great American tragedy is the sheer volume of historically significant places within Philadelphia which has been utterly lost to time – either neglect or blind progress. A lot of the rest of it simply isn’t highlighted or celebrated for its historical significance. Neither the Commonwealth nor the City has ever done much to preserve, curate, and market these sites of national historical significance either. The weather is pleasant here particularly in the Fall.

    For example, the “Betsy Ross House” which you may visit in Philadelphia is actually not Ross’s, but rather a very similar house of her neighbor which was preserved. They don’t tell you that until the end of the tour. Tun Tavern burnt down during the Revolution, but its location is now the support system for I-95.

    For those of us who grew up here, it all tends to fade into the background and be taken for granted.

    • Replies: @Crawfurdmuir

    For example, the “Betsy Ross House” which you may visit in Philadelphia is actually not Ross’s, but rather a very similar house of her neighbor which was preserved. They don’t tell you that until the end of the tour.
     
    This reminds me of an anecdote told me decades ago by a gentleman of very distinguished colonial-stock ancestry, who had come to Philadelphia to attend the annual meeting of one of the lineage societies. Because his train had arrived several hours before the meeting began, he thought he'd use the time to do some local sightseeing. He asked the taxicab driver to take him to Betsy Ross's house.

    To this, cabbie replied "mister, haven't you heard? We got a new police commissioner and he shut all them places down."
    , @dr kill
    There was a time when living in Bucks County was considered blessed.
  103. @Jack D

    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be ‘inclusive’ with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one’s interested any more.
     
    For most of the 19th century, Americans were not at all interested in historic buildings. They were just OLD buildings to them and they had no qualms about knocking them down to build something new and better. You can count on the fingers of 1 hand the number of pre-Revolutionary buildings in Manhattan. Williamsburg survived because it was a backwater and no one was interested in building anything new there so they let the colonial buildings just molder without bothering to knock them down. For almost a century, the Levy family pleaded with the US Government to take over Monticello and the government turned them down over and over (despite being offered the place for free). Taking care of old buildings in perpetuity was not the business of government.

    So what changed? A big impetus was that as America was being overwhelmed by the last great wave of immigration, Founding Stock Americans wanted to stake a claim for themselves that they were better than New Americans because their ancestors got here first and were the ones responsible for the great system that we have. Historic buildings were tangible proof of their claim and needed to be preserved. The preservation of Williamsburg dates only to the 1920s.

    And of course they were right - as the new generation of Americans is half white, visits to Williamsburg have fallen by half. If you are a Latino, what Tomas Yefferson was doing in 1776 is of no great concern to you. Latinos don't really care about history or other book larnin' type stuff in general, let alone wasting their time walking thru some dusty old building where the white guys in wigs used to debate.

    Most of Colonial Williamsburg is actually a 20th century reconstruction. Around 80% of the structures there were built in the 1920s, generally on the foundations of the structures being recreated. It’s a bit of a historical Disneyland.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    If "colonial" Williamsburg dies its because it sucks ass.

    I had to go there on field trips. Actors churning butter and other nonsense.
    , @syonredux
    "Most of Colonial Williamsburg is actually a 20th century reconstruction. Around 80% of the structures there were built in the 1920s, generally on the foundations of the structures being recreated. It’s a bit of a historical Disneyland."


    Nothing wrong with that. It's certainly more worthwhile than dreck like The Wizarding World of Harry Potter or Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9QSTam_CI5M/VtJSdt-xEzI/AAAAAAAAEVI/oS7KlEbLOU4/s1600/brutonparishchurch.jpg

  104. @SF
    Then there is California, with a current fatality rate of 1.25 per 100,000. Good management, or some demographic anomaly?

    Distance, as our host mentioned more personal vehicles for transportation, and a populace not completely antisocial at this point.

  105. @black sea
    My parents took me to Jamestown and Williamsburg when I was a kid. It was for me one of the most memorable trips we ever took (we didn't do a lot of travelling to new locales in my childhood).

    I guess there has been a significant drop off of interest in colonial history, but then again, when the whole subject is just one long crime against humanity, I suppose few White people want to dwell on it, and People of Color don't take much interest in history generally.

    I guess there has been a significant drop off of interest in colonial history,

    That’s because American history began when Grandpa Moishe arrived at Ellis Island. Anything before that is just noise.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    The Joos are 2% of the US population and even 30 years ago when visits to Williamsburg were at a peak, Grandpa Moishe had always come thru Ellis Island, except now its Great Grandpa Moishe. Maybe the Joos are now using their special mind control beams to prevent the goyim from visiting.

    "Visit the OTHER Williamsburg and pay your respects to the Rebbe, instead".

    And it's working. Here's a place with no shortage of visitors, a place where the residents don't cower in fear of kung flu:

    https://cdn.cms.prod.nypr.digital/images/bburgfuneral.2e16d0ba.fill-661x496.jpg

  106. @eD
    "Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be ‘inclusive’ with a several dozen slavery exhibits."

    This claim took me by surprise, but I googled "number of visitors to Colonial Williamsburg" and found a local news article from 2017 stating that the number of visitors peaked in 1984 at 1.1 million, when my parents took me there, and by 2016 had been halved, to 564,000. The population of the USA as a whole grew by 110 million during this time.

    "Close up shop" might be an exaggeration. The non-profit that runs Colonial Williamsburg gets most of its support from corporate donors, and it would take a bigger shift in the culture to get to a situation where no one pays for the upkeep of the historic buildings. I could see that happening -the article on Independence Hall posted earlier by another commentator stated that was going to be demolished until the Philadelphia city government bought it- but we are not quite there yet.

    My opinion on the visitor receipts is that the foundation should be investing in hotels, and pretty much be selling the experience as a sort of luxury vacation where a customer stays in a luxury hotel and gets tour of the buildings (you can pay to stay in the historic buildings even now). This would cope with the decline/ vanishing of the American middle class, which I suspect is the real reason behind the declining visitor totals, as it affects the park. With the shutdown of small businesses (and also educational institutions, and the latest Big Bailout, the decline of the American middle class will only accelerate and in fact this event could finish it off. Nor does it help Colonial Williamsburg, which according to the website is closed temporarily, though only small numbers of people at the time could visit the historical buildings anyway.

    btw, CW just revamped their high end hotel for this very reason.

    I wrote below a comment about what is happening to CW. Like attendance at the monuments in DC, it relies on patriotism. that’s not a virtue families or achools inculcate anymore.

  107. @Twinkie
    What I found interesting about NY is that Westchester, Suffolk, and Nassau Counties have higher cases per capita than NYC does.

    NYC 910.5 cases per 100,000
    Nassau 1224,4
    Suffolk 1045.8
    Westchester 1528.1

    Philly is 254.6, but this is not unusual. DC is only 176.9.

    As I noted in another thread, Rockland County has the highest rate per 100k (1,981 / 100k, according to the NY Times as of this morning) , with Westchester next at 1,640. So it’s a fair surmise that Rockland has the highest rate in the entire country.

    This is largely due to the Hasidics, who can’t be bothered to do anything socially responsible or normal.

    Contrast that with the stories of Brazilian and Central American gangs enforcing quarantines. Even they have more of a sense of societal good.

    • Agree: Oscar Peterson
  108. @nebulafox
    Rizzo was a cheap imitation of Hizzoner. I mean the real one, not the kid Richie.

    And yet: there is something to be said about organized crime preventing unorganized crime. Who better? Booze, prostitution, gambling, they'll all go on, regardless of who is in charge. But if the former consists of men who are hard, brutalized, but understand the damned basics in life and don't tolerate your standard issue child molester and related human scum, they ultimately have their place.

    This is the Japanese model, and it is very effective for them.

  109. Why is there a Holocaust museum in America? Where were the camps here?

    • Replies: @Anon
    Haven’t you see The Plot Against America TM on HBO? The camps were in Georgia.
  110. @Jack D

    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be ‘inclusive’ with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one’s interested any more.
     
    For most of the 19th century, Americans were not at all interested in historic buildings. They were just OLD buildings to them and they had no qualms about knocking them down to build something new and better. You can count on the fingers of 1 hand the number of pre-Revolutionary buildings in Manhattan. Williamsburg survived because it was a backwater and no one was interested in building anything new there so they let the colonial buildings just molder without bothering to knock them down. For almost a century, the Levy family pleaded with the US Government to take over Monticello and the government turned them down over and over (despite being offered the place for free). Taking care of old buildings in perpetuity was not the business of government.

    So what changed? A big impetus was that as America was being overwhelmed by the last great wave of immigration, Founding Stock Americans wanted to stake a claim for themselves that they were better than New Americans because their ancestors got here first and were the ones responsible for the great system that we have. Historic buildings were tangible proof of their claim and needed to be preserved. The preservation of Williamsburg dates only to the 1920s.

    And of course they were right - as the new generation of Americans is half white, visits to Williamsburg have fallen by half. If you are a Latino, what Tomas Yefferson was doing in 1776 is of no great concern to you. Latinos don't really care about history or other book larnin' type stuff in general, let alone wasting their time walking thru some dusty old building where the white guys in wigs used to debate.

    It’s a shame Founding Stock Americans couldn’t have your peoples never waning commitment to place.

    The celery is always greener in someone else’s salt water cup.

  111. As a lifelong resident– amounting to nearly five decades– of the Delaware Valley I endorse the notion Philadelphia and Chicago are similar. Both, to me, amount to “Has everything NYC has, but less of it it, and less douchy.”

    The main differences as it relates to the virus:

    1) Subways. Philadelphia– compared to the rest of the nation– does have a functioning public transit system which people use. It only went to a skeleton schedule this week, in fact. That system includes a subway and regional rail. But NOBODY else in America crams on the subway like New Yorkers

    2) Earlier lock down relative to case count: Southeastern PA issued stay-at-home orders– especially in the suburban counties– while the case count was a lot lower compared to NYC

    3) Less international travel: Contrary to remarks above, Philadelphia does have Chinese people in it. And an actual Chinatown– which has been geographically constricted by infrastructure. But while Philadelphia does welcome many international travelers, it’s nothing like NYC

    4) The Jewish factor: Philadelphia has a very large Jewish community. After NYC, LA, and Boca, it’s about fourth on the list in Jewish people per capita. But none of them are Orthodox, and as noted it appears the Orthodox have been an important vector in NYC

    5) Insularity: While no population is more provincial than NYC conceptually– if it didn’t happen in NYC, New Yorkers don’t know about it– Philadelphia remains (comparatively) a city with lifelong residents and distinct neighborhoods. Philadelphians mix less with the world, and even internal travel– I would wager– is naturally more restricted compared to NYC

  112. If you walk around center city after work the sidewalks are wide open because everyone who works there went home. In Manhattan the sidewalks are always congested with people.

  113. @Hail

    Why Is Philadelphia Not Much Like New York City?
     
    What about Hamburg, then, one of Germany's biggest, densest cities.

    _______________

    Here is Dr. Klaus Püschel:


    Professor Klaus Püschel, head of forensic medicine in Hamburg, explains about Covid19: „This virus influences our lives in a completely excessive way. This is disproportionate to the danger posed by the virus. And the astronomical economic damage now being caused is not commensurate with the danger posed by the virus. I am convinced that the Corona mortality rate will not even show up as a peak in annual mortality.“

    In Hamburg, for example, „not a single person who was not previously ill“ had died of the virus: „All those we have examined so far had cancer, a chronic lung disease, were heavy smokers or severely obese, suffered from diabetes or had a cardiovascular disease. The virus was the last straw that broke the camel’s back, so to speak. „Covid-19 is a fatal disease only in exceptional cases, but in most cases it is a predominantly harmless viral infection.“

    In addition, Dr. Püschel explains: „In quite a few cases, we have also found that the current corona infection has nothing whatsoever to do with the fatal outcome because other causes of death are present, for example a brain haemorrhage or a heart attack. Corona in itself is a „not particularly dangerous viral disease“, says the forensic scientist. He pleads for statistics based on concrete examination results. „All speculations about individual deaths that have not been expertly examined only fuel anxiety.“

    (Translated from Hamburger Morgenpost newspaper.)
     

    "This man Püschel is clearly a dupe, must've fallen for Hoaxer material he read online. He needs to get educated and learn basic facts about this Mass Killer Apocalypse Virus!"

    Oops, he is the Director of the Institute of Forensic Medicine at Hamburg University since 1992. Back to the drawing board for the pro-CoronaPanic'ites.

    Can the good doctor cite any other epidemic where healthcare workers, policemen, fire department workers, bus drivers, cruise ship customers, grocery workers etc., fall dead like flies? The fear is not over 70+ dying, it is the rather large number of < 60 dying.

    • Replies: @Hail

    The fear is...the rather large number of < 60 dying.
     
    I don't know where you heard that, epebble, but it's probably a case of anecdote trumping data.

    Total mortality data just released today through 2020 Week 14 (ending April 5):

    https://hailtoyou.files.wordpress.com/2020/04/euromomo-week-14-pooled-number.png


    Overall excess mortality can be seen by the total area under the the observed-death curve(s) and above the baseline [....]

    Comparison with past years. The 2019-20 flu season, in which excess mortality peaked in March instead of the more-usual January or Feburary, vs. the 2016-17, 2017-18, 2018-19 flu seasons:

    Milder in each case for age 15-to-65s;

    – No difference for children under age 15;

    – For over-65s, it’s looking like it will equal 2016-17.
     

    Yes, fewer under-65 have died in this flu season than in any of the recent previous flu seasons. With the epidemic now well past peak and the braver EU countries starting down the path towards re-opening, there is not going to be any unforeseen death spike among under-65s associated with this epidemic.

    Remember, Corona was/is marketed as a "Mass Killer Apocalypse Virus, like all those movies warned about; easily 25x, probably at least 50x, maybe 100x worse than a usual flu spike!"

    We were lied to.

  114. @black sea
    My main understanding of the difference between Philadelphia and New York comes from Diane Keaton's character in Manhattan, who twice utters the line:

    "I'm from Philadelphia; we believe in God. We don't talk about these things."


    I guess Philadelphia is more repressed WASP?

    In 1979…

  115. @William Badwhite

    I guess there has been a significant drop off of interest in colonial history,
     
    That's because American history began when Grandpa Moishe arrived at Ellis Island. Anything before that is just noise.

    The Joos are 2% of the US population and even 30 years ago when visits to Williamsburg were at a peak, Grandpa Moishe had always come thru Ellis Island, except now its Great Grandpa Moishe. Maybe the Joos are now using their special mind control beams to prevent the goyim from visiting.

    “Visit the OTHER Williamsburg and pay your respects to the Rebbe, instead”.

    And it’s working. Here’s a place with no shortage of visitors, a place where the residents don’t cower in fear of kung flu:

    • Replies: @William Badwhite

    The Joos are 2% of the US population and even 30 years ago when visits to Williamsburg were at a peak, Grandpa Moishe had always come thru Ellis Island, except now its Great Grandpa Moishe.
     
    Ok then, lets go with Grandpa Moishe, Uncle Vito, and Mr. O'Callahan.
    , @AnotherDad

    The Joos are 2% of the US population and even 30 years ago when visits to Williamsburg were at a peak, Grandpa Moishe had always come thru Ellis Island, except now its Great Grandpa Moishe. Maybe the Joos are now using their special mind control beams to prevent the goyim from visiting.
     
    I realize you are doing typical Jewish Talmudic lawyering here. (And maybe you actually believe it. Who knows? Jews have an amazing ability to believe their self-serving propaganda.)

    But seriously, this--very tired--trope of yours doesn't even rise to the level of "lame".

    You are always propagandizing Jewish genius, vaguely implying how impoverished America would be if not for Jews coming to rescue to build the bomb or conquer polio or something.

    Yet, it is simply an undeniable fact that Jews are even far, far more over-represented in politics and especially in media--crafting narratives the nation hears and sees--than they are in any productive endeavor, science or engineering. (Where yes, they are over-represented.)

    I'd guess maybe a 1/3 or more for national media organs (i don't mean the secretaries or janitors but who determines what gets written or writes it). And Hollyweird which seeps into everyone's home and brain like a virus ... LOL--execs, producers, directors, writers, the people who determine the content we see--it's a Jewish enterprise!.

    Just stop your bullshit. Jews have conducted a minoritarian--majorities oppressive, evil, minorities oppressed, virtuous--propaganda war against the American gentile majority for 50+ years. Own it.

    If you don't like it. Or wish it would have stopped by just giving special minority privilege to Jews but not to blacks or Mexicans--which is far as i can tell is your basic position--take that up with your tribe.

    But seriously cut this "mind control beams" stuff is pathetic. It's called "the news" and "Hollywood" And yes the propaganda does work.

  116. Anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:
    @black sea
    Most of Colonial Williamsburg is actually a 20th century reconstruction. Around 80% of the structures there were built in the 1920s, generally on the foundations of the structures being recreated. It's a bit of a historical Disneyland.

    If “colonial” Williamsburg dies its because it sucks ass.

    I had to go there on field trips. Actors churning butter and other nonsense.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    If “colonial” Williamsburg dies its because it sucks ass.

    I had to go there on field trips. Actors churning butter and other nonsense.
     
    I will say this comment gets at something quite real.

    I think the biggest thing here is the reigning minoritarian ideology basically pissing all over the actually American founding and founding stock as evil slave holding, native killing oppressors, in favor of their "nation of immigrants" narrative which gives Jews pride of place. And then immigration itself creating a population that actually is not descended from the founders.

    Whites really have to chose a counter narrative where their ancestors--or their neighbor's ancestors--founding work actually matters.

    But the other aspect is certainly what you say. To a "modern" brain pickled in Hollyweird action and constantly checking your cell phone feed ... all these old buildings and "history stuff" is ... BORING.
    , @syonredux
    It all depends on your degree of fondness for Georgian architecture......For HP Lovecraft (a true aficionado), it was a sublunary approximation of paradise:


    https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7156/6544604175_3583a460ec_b.jpg


    http://s3.amazonaws.com/mtv-main-assets/files/resources/large_house-of-burgesses-677.jpg

    https://jimmellen.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/small-capital-picture.jpg

    https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/colonial-williamsburg-court-house-todd-hostetter.jpg
  117. @Jack D

    Never even built a skyscraper until 1980s.
     
    For someone who has worked in Philly for 20 years, you show remarkable ignorance.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSFS_Building

    Philadelphia at one time had an unwritten "gentleman's agreement", enforced by city planner Edmund Bacon (father of the actor Kevin) that no skyscraper would rise higher than City Hall (548'). But there were plenty of skyscrapers, they were just all 50 floors or less.

    This was finally broken in the '80s by 1 Liberty Place (a Chrysler Building ripoff).

    I went to college outside Philly in the late 70s and early 80s.

    In those days, as the saying went, no building was higher than Billy Penn’s hat.

    Although there were buildings literally across the street from City Hall that came very close to Mr. Penn in height.

    Center City had a rather different character in those days. There are only a few cities remaining with that sort of restriction. Washington, DC is one, and, on a smaller scale, Madison, WI. It always seems rather strange to see big cities without any real skyscrapers.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Center City had a rather different character in those days.
     
    Even now Philadelphia is the rare big city in which the tallest buildings have pointy tops. New buildings.

    https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/statue-ben-franklin-looks-over-260nw-1229981830.jpg


    There are only a few cities remaining with that sort of restriction. Washington, DC is one, and, on a smaller scale, Madison, WI. It always seems rather strange to see big cities without any real skyscrapers.
     
    A restriction on high-demand land has a distinctive look, whether in Washington or Barcelona. Every lot is built to the limit, and you get miles of blocky buildings with flat roofs.

    https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_480w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2016/03/15/Local/Images/vultures.jpg?uuid=9GDj1OrUEeWm8yHM28X3Tg

    https://cdn8.dissolve.com/p/D246_33_086/D246_33_086_1200.jpg

    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Center City had a rather different character in those days. There are only a few cities remaining with that sort of restriction. Washington, DC is one, and, on a smaller scale, Madison, WI. It always seems rather strange to see big cities without any real skyscrapers.
     
    In my opinion the aesthetics of a City skyline are a lot like a man's haircut.

    A few long hairs don't make up a head, just as one or two very tall buildings don't make up a skyline. A man would usually look better with a head of hair all about the same length with some minor variations than with a few long wisps and little else (in which case shaving the head to achieve this evening out is optimal). Cities with a only a few prominent tall buildings and little else are the comb-over or mullet of skylines.

    Skyscrapers look best in large, dense flocks without too many outliers poking above the rest and without large perceived voids. I know that even 19 years later it's still a heresy, but I always felt that the World Trade Center towers made the overall Manhattan skyline unbalanced by their magnitude compared to the rest of the tall buildings.
    , @AceDeuce
    Fun fact. To avoid "the curse of Billy Penn", most, if not all, new skyscrapers in Filthaderpia have a miniature figure of the Billy Penn statue affixed to the top of the new buildings.
  118. Anon[159] • Disclaimer says:

    New York’s rich jet-setters live in the city, Philly’s live in the suburbs. Philly is also more car-centric. The subway is less extensive and our SEPTA system gets way less traffic than the MTA. Our airport is big, but we don’t get near as much international travel as New York, especially by Chinese. Philly is also blacker, meaning younger (though the numbers in Chicago and Milwaukee might suggest this would contribute to a higher death rate.) Our Governor (who is most famous for cutting a set of goofy TV ads in his late-model Jeep) shut things down at practically the same time New York did, when they were much further along in their outbreak.

  119. @Whiskey
    NYC has a lot more Asians. Including people who presumably traveled from Wu Flu central, "Bat City" Wuhan to NYC.

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto. It is what Detroit aspired to be but could not become, the true Wakanda. BLACK in all senses of the word. No Asian would go there and expect to make it out alive. Its a WorldStarHipHop city.

    Its like Africa. Chinese there don't associate with Africans so they might as well be on another planet.

    “Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto. ”

    It’s also more Jew, among whom the North Eastern outbreaks initially flourished.

    As with much of life, it’s the shtetl not the ghetto that gets ya. But one of them will.

  120. SFG says:
    @Jack D

    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be ‘inclusive’ with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one’s interested any more.
     
    For most of the 19th century, Americans were not at all interested in historic buildings. They were just OLD buildings to them and they had no qualms about knocking them down to build something new and better. You can count on the fingers of 1 hand the number of pre-Revolutionary buildings in Manhattan. Williamsburg survived because it was a backwater and no one was interested in building anything new there so they let the colonial buildings just molder without bothering to knock them down. For almost a century, the Levy family pleaded with the US Government to take over Monticello and the government turned them down over and over (despite being offered the place for free). Taking care of old buildings in perpetuity was not the business of government.

    So what changed? A big impetus was that as America was being overwhelmed by the last great wave of immigration, Founding Stock Americans wanted to stake a claim for themselves that they were better than New Americans because their ancestors got here first and were the ones responsible for the great system that we have. Historic buildings were tangible proof of their claim and needed to be preserved. The preservation of Williamsburg dates only to the 1920s.

    And of course they were right - as the new generation of Americans is half white, visits to Williamsburg have fallen by half. If you are a Latino, what Tomas Yefferson was doing in 1776 is of no great concern to you. Latinos don't really care about history or other book larnin' type stuff in general, let alone wasting their time walking thru some dusty old building where the white guys in wigs used to debate.

    Eh, I like old stuff. Williamsburg is part of the history of this country and ought to remain as a monument to the people who built it. I don’t share any direct ancestors, but I live here, and those men built the country that became the country that became the country that became the country that became the country I live in now. We don’t have to do everything the way the old guys did it, but their names ought to stay on the buildings. If I moved to France, I wouldn’t demand the demolition of the Dome des Invalides.

    By and large you are correct, though. One of the reasons the Confederacy gets remembered more than the Union (despite losing the war) is the large wave of immigration that flooded through the North shortly afterward. More people could probably name Lee, Stuart, Stonewall Jackson, and Longstreet than the generals who defeated them.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    One of the reasons the Confederacy gets remembered more than the Union (despite losing the war) is the large wave of immigration that flooded through the North shortly afterward.
     
    The other reason is that Confederate commemoration became tied up with the myth of the Lost Cause and the desire of the Southern population to undo Reconstruction and maintain white power (ACTUAL white power, not in the modern bullshit sense).

    In NY, Grant's Tomb (a monument befitting a Roman emperor) ended up in a black (and Puerto Rican) neighborhood. Now you would think that they of all people would venerate the man who liberated them but in fact they could care less. It's a little better now, but in the '80s the place was covered in graffiti. Directly outside the Tomb someone in the '70s had the brilliant idea "to get the community involved" and they built these crude concrete benches covered in broken bathroom tiles formed into primitive mosaics directly outside this formal classical building, with total disregard for how this disfigured the dignity of the monument. It was like something the barbarians might have done after the fall of Rome and these foul things still stand and are now "historic" in their own right.

    http://inspicio.fiu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/GT115Signatur.jpg

  121. @Daniel Williams
    I bet it’s the subway. I bet that’s how it spread, with low-paid nursing home attendees and nurses picking it up there and spreading it to the olds they’re in charge of.

    The NYC subway is unlike any other mass transit system in the United States. The Philly thing is like the DC metro or Trimet in Portland or whatever—the answer to a riddle, not serious everyday transportation for a huge portion of a world-class city’s population.

    New York subways are busier, grosser, and better utilized than anything in Philadelphia. They go more places more often, and link more people. I have a hard time imagining a better way to spread a respiratory infection.

    Everything that progressives love to virtue signal about, and want to foist off on everyone else, they are having to step back from, as they are seen to promote the spread of disease: high-density housing, public transport, reuseable grocery bags. On the other hand, they have a whole load of new social controls to impose on society and wag their fingers about. They can now call you a murderer for going to the grocery store. And they are loving it.

    • Agree: Hibernian
  122. I bet it’s the subway.

    Kudos to my fellow commenters here. A lot of people have nailed this right off the bat. There are particular issues–world travel, the Orthodox Jews–but the main thing is that NYC is simply the most dense, most “cityish” city in America. Including the only place that most people use public transport rather than their own car to get to work.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_transit_systems_by_ridership

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density

    ~~~

    A bit of historical perspective …

    Cities are deeply *unnatural*.

    Our ancestors lived for millions of years in small tribes–no more than 100 or so before they’d split. Then after the neolithic agriculture revolution in small villages. That is the social environment we are designed for.

    But after settlement, suddenly there was this new “ecological niche” of a parasite class using force to rule over and extract from productive farmers. I.e. taxes. (And slavery, serfdom, etc.) There had to be someplace where they parked themselves with their extractive apparatus, bureaucratcy, the military force necessary to protect themselves from other parasites, and all the associated rent-seekers and other assorted hangers on. The city was born.

    (Our two richest super-zippy cities produce basically nothing Americans want, but are simply the Wall Street-Washington twin poles of parasitism living large off productive people in the vast American heartland.)

    It was only with the industrial revolution that scale in productive endeavors required city–at least small city scale for some productive activities.

    Cities have *always* been the population sinks in the best of times and the epicenters of epidemic in the worst.

    It wasn’t until the late industrial revolution when we had the capability to provide clean water and effective sanitation that cities even could replicate their population.

    But even with that … they still don’t. Every year we have hundreds of thousands of smart young women with their fresh BAs flocking to the “cool places to be” cities–NY, DC, LA, the Bay Area, Seattle, Chicago, Boston–for their b.s. BA careers. And then with the expensive housing and glued to their jobs forming families late–or never at all. These cities are not just population sinks but IQ shredders.

    Ironically … there’s less need for the city than ever before! The one truly productive aspect of the city was that proximity facilitated knowledge sharing. The latest ideas in science and technology–how the world works and how to do things better. But now proximity is moot. Steve doesn’t have to have us all over to the iSteve salon–for which he is very thankful! Steve can stay in his closest and we can discuss these issues on-line.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    How about you close the circle, so to speak. WHICH certain ethnic group (in times past designated as a race), is so enthusiastic about cities for their own sakes, and living in them, and thinking they are the gosh grand dad bestest of all places in which to reside? (e.g. Revolutionary Road, and other books that cast aspersions vs anywhere but city living and city life in general).

    Which group? One that has lived in Europe and the US for at least 2,000 yrs? It alone has influenced, persuaded other groups to adore the city, but its particular zeal and ardor for the city and all its benefits is perhaps unmatched.

    Hint: It's also called J--York, and Hy---Town for a reason. Most other white ethnic groups, when given a choice, don't particularly relish living in the city as opposed to the country, or the suburbs in modern times, if they don't have to. Things that make you go hm...Because that particular ethnic group doesn't particularly relish living in the country, and tends to put down suburbs via pejoratives such as "sprawl" and "white flight".

    Wonder why that is?
    , @scrivener3
    If you were to study history as the progression of ideas over the world, as I did, you would enter the lecture hall day after day and hear about the progression of human knowledge. It was like a fugue, one nation would move into the forefront and then another. Mesopotamia, Greece, Rome, dark ages/China, Japan for a brief moment, Middle East/Turkey, Italian Renaissance (Southern Italy), Protestant Revolution (Northern Europe), Great Briton -- then America.

    Nothing in the education was due to me, it was created by scholars. They had a good idea and I benefited.

    We had five lectures a week, literature of the period, plastic arts, music, philosophy/religion, social science (which was the hard history - who defeated whom in battle). The idea was to try to draw connections. How did the Enlightenment play out in music and literature, paintings? How did the Romantic period?

    Some of the things that I took away.

    Philosophy was always ahead. The ideas of philosophers (excepting during the proliferation of ancient
    Greece when no philosopher was dominant) very shortly became the ideas of the politics and then the ordinary people. At that point I decided to concentrate in Philosophy. We are living in the age brought about by Nietzsche. I was confused when he said "God is dead" because in 1985 God was alive in America - we few other than college students knew religion was a scam.


    As a practical matter, all advances in human knowledge were done in cities. There are few cases of someone being born in obscurity in a little village and changing the world (except Jesus). Mozart, Goethe, Voltaire, Copernicus, Dostoevsky, Thomas Mann, Ibsen, Marx, Locke, etc were city dwellers.

    For most of human history, many people died at all ages. The typical biography of world historical individuals started "the third of eleven sons, of which four survived" or some such similar. People died left and right in families - how they took it I can't imagine. It was an immutable fact of life.

    , @gabriel alberton

    Our ancestors lived for millions of years in small tribes–no more than 100 or so before they’d split. Then after the neolithic agriculture revolution in small villages. That is the social environment we are designed for.
     
    Others say it was the African southern grasslands, hunting wildebeest. I ought to disagree with both views. But we are all free to stop history at a point we like, or think we'd like. Alternatively, what do you mean "we'', paleface?

    (Our two richest super-zippy cities produce basically nothing Americans want, but are simply the Wall Street-Washington twin poles of parasitism living large off productive people in the vast American heartland.)
     
    Americans seem to want oil from Midland, Texas and technology from Silicon Valley, California. If you have other sources showing what the productive people of the American heartland produce more than northeastern and Californian city dwellers (who don't produce anything -- basically nothing -- Americans want, as you said), please consider sharing them.
  123. @ic1000
    Here is a related idea I haven't seen (though somebody's surely thought of it already).

    A crash program to develop a Superspreader test.

    Instead of aiming for the hard problem of detecting 10 viruses (lab tests) or 100 viruses (Abbott ID Now), design a PoC test that catches the low end of the superspreader spectrum. Whatever that number is -- 10,000 viruses? -- it'll be much easier to do. An antibody-based dipstick test to detect SARS-CoV-2 spike protein in saliva might work.

    Although it's for a screening application, the false-positive rate doesn't have to be ideally low: positives can be automatically referred to a better test, such as an ID Now.

    The model would be airport security. In order enter a high-risk situation, you have to pass the screen. Concert, Disney World, plane flight, Mardi Gras.

    Yes, this has negative civil-liberties implications. We could have a conversation. At least it would be about something meaningful.

    Yes, this has negative civil-liberties implications. We could have a conversation. At least it would be about something meaningful.

    Or we could just behave as free people in a free country.

    “Have a conversation.” We all know what that means in contemporary America: Shut up and do what I say.

  124. @Anonymous
    OT: It's the duty of all righteous men to excoriate and denounce communists. Despicable Bernie Sanders was allowed to cut a swath of destruction through the youth of America. Throughout his career he went almost entirely unchecked. He has warped and twisted millions of lives....

    Amazing Bernie supporter "rage quit" viral video:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1248082191218888705

    This girl is good looking, intelligent and she probably comes from an affluent family.

    She should be enjoying a fantastic love-filled life. But instead the Marxists seduced her and now she's standing in a lonely apartment with a shaved head screaming at the mirror.

    DON'T LET THIS SHIT HAPPEN TO THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE.

    I liked the meme on that thread:

    Four weeks into socialism, and Bernie drops out.

  125. @Jack D

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto.
     
    I assume you haven't been to Philadelphia in many decades, if ever? Philly certainly does have a large black population but it's not like Detroit at all. It has a white mayor. It has gentrified areas, major universities and hospitals, a downtown business district, museums and other tourist attractions, a (formerly) thriving restaurant and bar scene, newly built skyscrapers and residential new construction. It's main train station is (was) heavily used and is not an abandoned ruin like Detroit's. It's more like Chicago than Detroit.

    I assume you haven’t been to Philadelphia in many decades, if ever?

    As far as we can tell, he’s never been out of his house, much less to Philadelphia.

    Jack surely you know by now that simple constraints such as having no idea what he’s talking about aren’t going to slow down Whiskey. “White women love love love ghetto blacks and murderers”, etc etc.

  126. @Hail
    Of all the effects of the Great Hysteria Pandemic of 2020, one that an unfortunately large number of people are making is: Public transportation is an extreme health danger and so should be reduced to save lives, or something. (I am not saying you are saying so, but some are; it's not a giant logical leap).

    Given that The Scary New Coronavirus might produce an entirely unremarkable spike-in-seasonal-flu-like death toll, if public transportation suffers from this, it's yet another long-term net loss from the evil beast of CoronaPanic/CoronaHoax.

    If there are only a large seasonal flu’s worth of deaths in the immediate stages of this crisis it will only be because of the massive interventions we’ve made and the tremendous cost we’ve paid to avoid it being far worse. Were the overflowing ICUs in Italy, NYC, Spain, Wuhan, etc. not sufficient evidence to infer what happens if you let it rip?

    • Replies: @Hail
    Many experts are now saying that the shutdowns came too late to have a real effect, as they tended to come after the epidemics peaked. Deaths, diagnoses, and infections all lag one another by a considerable degree.

    In other words, the shutdowns were at least partly political theater. This also applies to the China.

    Anyway, we have a natural experiment ongoing in Sweden. Look to Sweden. No Swedish mass dieoff is an argument against the CoronaPanic.

  127. @Coemgen

    Linda Tripp, the career civil servant who ignited the impeachment of President Bill Clinton by tape-recording his mistress, has died. She was 70.

    Cause of death? Not listed.
     
    an opportunistic infection? HRC-20?

    I read that Linda Tripp had pancreatic cancer.

    • Replies: @Coemgen

    I read that Linda Tripp had pancreatic cancer.
     
    What the opportunistic infection HRC-20 would refer to as plausible deniability.
  128. @Paleo Liberal
    I went to college outside Philly in the late 70s and early 80s.

    In those days, as the saying went, no building was higher than Billy Penn's hat.

    Although there were buildings literally across the street from City Hall that came very close to Mr. Penn in height.

    Center City had a rather different character in those days. There are only a few cities remaining with that sort of restriction. Washington, DC is one, and, on a smaller scale, Madison, WI. It always seems rather strange to see big cities without any real skyscrapers.

    Center City had a rather different character in those days.

    Even now Philadelphia is the rare big city in which the tallest buildings have pointy tops. New buildings.

    There are only a few cities remaining with that sort of restriction. Washington, DC is one, and, on a smaller scale, Madison, WI. It always seems rather strange to see big cities without any real skyscrapers.

    A restriction on high-demand land has a distinctive look, whether in Washington or Barcelona. Every lot is built to the limit, and you get miles of blocky buildings with flat roofs.

    • Replies: @a Newsreader
    One interesting idea I read* was that instead of restricting buildings' heights, restricting buildings' number of floors would still allow for an interesting skyline. IIRC, a restriction of that type is said to be what spurred the invention of the Mansard roof.

    *I think it might have been from @wrathofgnon on twitter.
  129. @Jack D
    The Joos are 2% of the US population and even 30 years ago when visits to Williamsburg were at a peak, Grandpa Moishe had always come thru Ellis Island, except now its Great Grandpa Moishe. Maybe the Joos are now using their special mind control beams to prevent the goyim from visiting.

    "Visit the OTHER Williamsburg and pay your respects to the Rebbe, instead".

    And it's working. Here's a place with no shortage of visitors, a place where the residents don't cower in fear of kung flu:

    https://cdn.cms.prod.nypr.digital/images/bburgfuneral.2e16d0ba.fill-661x496.jpg

    The Joos are 2% of the US population and even 30 years ago when visits to Williamsburg were at a peak, Grandpa Moishe had always come thru Ellis Island, except now its Great Grandpa Moishe.

    Ok then, lets go with Grandpa Moishe, Uncle Vito, and Mr. O’Callahan.

  130. @PiltdownMan
    Not OT:

    German antibody study indicates fatality rate of 0.37 percent

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/08/coronavirus-latest-news-2/#link-2H64MNBNRVCWJPBJQTVLVHCZ4E

    I reached my comment limit, so just want to say “thanks.”

    Also, what is interesting is that even in these places where the virus was early and no precautions were taken the prevalence is still way lower than predicted (almost as far off as the death counts). Ohio released a model that showed they peaked and started to decline the day before the lock down. Yet we persist with this myth.

    What’s throwing people off–everyone, myself included–is that this seems to spread really asymmetrically. You have these super spreaders then in other places it is shown to have existed for quite awhile before social distancing, yet only 10-15% of the population is infected.

  131. eD says:
    @Jack D

    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be ‘inclusive’ with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one’s interested any more.
     
    For most of the 19th century, Americans were not at all interested in historic buildings. They were just OLD buildings to them and they had no qualms about knocking them down to build something new and better. You can count on the fingers of 1 hand the number of pre-Revolutionary buildings in Manhattan. Williamsburg survived because it was a backwater and no one was interested in building anything new there so they let the colonial buildings just molder without bothering to knock them down. For almost a century, the Levy family pleaded with the US Government to take over Monticello and the government turned them down over and over (despite being offered the place for free). Taking care of old buildings in perpetuity was not the business of government.

    So what changed? A big impetus was that as America was being overwhelmed by the last great wave of immigration, Founding Stock Americans wanted to stake a claim for themselves that they were better than New Americans because their ancestors got here first and were the ones responsible for the great system that we have. Historic buildings were tangible proof of their claim and needed to be preserved. The preservation of Williamsburg dates only to the 1920s.

    And of course they were right - as the new generation of Americans is half white, visits to Williamsburg have fallen by half. If you are a Latino, what Tomas Yefferson was doing in 1776 is of no great concern to you. Latinos don't really care about history or other book larnin' type stuff in general, let alone wasting their time walking thru some dusty old building where the white guys in wigs used to debate.

    I mostly agree with this but will focus on two problems I have with this narrative, a minor one and a major one.

    The minor problem is that the reason there are few buildings from the colonial period in New York is that nearly all of them burned down in a fire in 1835 and in similar fires. Its the same reason why its hard to find buildings from the Civil War period in Chicago. The buildings that survived the fire almost all got reserved.

    The second problem is related to a trope I often read on this site and is a logical issue. Immigration would have nothing to do with a decline in attendance at an attraction favored by the “native” non-immigrant population. This is even assuming that the entire population increase of the USA after 1985 was due to immigration and that there was no assimilation whatsoever (it happens that there is evidence to support both of these assumptions). Logically, this could well produce a stagnation in attendance at something like colonial Williamsburg but would not produce a decline in attendance. To get a decline in attendance, you need an absolute decline in the numbers of the native population.

    Well since 1985 there hasn’t been a decline in the number of “real” Americans however you define it. But there has been a decline in the number of middle class Americans and this is well documented. This would cause difficulty at institutions catering to the said middle class.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad


    Well since 1985 there hasn’t been a decline in the number of “real” Americans however you define it.
     
    White fertility has been sub-replacement since sometime around 1970. Founding stock and founding stock identifying are no different.

    Is your argument simply that in absolute numbers there are still more? I think even that has almost rolled over and if you just looked at the core white population it is ZPG now. But even if numbers are still close to flat there's a visiting pattern. Some of these places a family with children goes--once. And there are fewer young families with fewer kids.


    The second problem is related to a trope I often read on this site and is a logical issue. Immigration would have nothing to do with a decline in attendance at an attraction favored by the “native” non-immigrant population.
     
    This is the crux of my disagreement.

    Immigrationism isn't just biologically flooding the real estate with foreigners, where the native population nevertheless just moseys along.

    The dominant ideology of Jewish minoritarianism works tirelessly to delegitimize the nation--it's founding, it's traditions, norms, values, culture. To not only say the national majority people and culture are not special and entitled to be dominant but that they are flawed, colorless, bland, stale and ... even evil, in contrast to colorful, enlivening and virtuous oppressed minorities.

    We get this from academia, news media, public education, government and Hollyweird. We are steeped in it. Full delegitimization, 24x7x365. It's a small wonder any families go to Jamestown or Yorktown or Williamsburg at all.
    , @Art Deco
    There hasn't been any decline in the number of middle-class Americans and this fictitious decline has not been 'well-documented'.

    No clue what Colonial Williamsburg's problem is, but lines of inquiry might be: (1) that the democratization of communications has reduced people's interest in visiting sites physically (which would be manifest in regard to museums generally); (2) people are annoyed at unprofessional behavior by Colonial Williamsburg employees and word-of-mouth injures them (I visited in 1974 and 1997 and was poleaxed by how silly and sloppy some of their interpreters were during the latter visit); (3) that it's an outing for families with children, and people have fewer children in households with a weaker authority structure; (4) changes in taste for which the reasons are unfathomable (as changes in taste commonly are).

    I discover a couple of Colonial Williamsburg's competitors (Greenfield Village and Genesee Country Village) have reported increasing attendance as recently as four years ago. Another, Sturbridge Village, isn't reporting its attendance figures but does report an operating surplus. Could be a problem quite local to Colonial Williamsburg.
    , @Hernan Pizzaro del Blanco
    There has been a significant decline in the absolute number of real Americans....the census data proves this , just compare the 1980 census to the 2010 census.

    Not too difficult to see the absolute number of whites under the age of 50 has declined since 1990 and whites are no longer the majority of those under the age of 15. The number of white families has fallen since 1985. This is easy to document and observe.
  132. @Buzz Mohawk
    All I can say is that question could only have come from a Californian.

    Sorry I don't have numbers for it, but Philly is nothing like NYC. The right question would be, "How is Philadelphia like New York City?" That way you're asking for a shorter list.

    The right question would be, “How is Philadelphia like New York City?”

    These cities had five MLB teams in 1950, and only two in 1950.

    Philadelphia is the only one of the (old) multiple-team cities in which all the city’s teams never finished in first the same year. Chicago’s did in 1906, St Louis’s in 1944, Boston’s in 1948, and NYC’s in 1951, all three.

    However, the A’s and Phillies shared last-place honors many times.

    Philly was also the only city to lose its “strong sister”, rather than the weak one.

    NYC never had an Eddie Waitkus, either. Though Chicago, not Philly, gets the blame.

    Waitkus remembered for being shot, but he was no Natural

  133. ES says:

    Slightly off-topic but OF COURSE

    “DEI is central to COVID-19 response”

    “We may be tempted to put our diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) work aside until the coronavirus (COVID-19) crisis subsides, but our work to advance DEI is needed now more than ever to help vulnerable members and staff weather the COVID-19 crisis.”

    https://news.cuna.org/articles/117541-dei-is-central-to-covid-19-response

  134. @Mr McKenna
    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be 'inclusive' with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one's interested any more. And even when "Americans" visit Washington, the main things they want to see are the Spy Museum, the Holocaust Museum, and maybe the gemological exhibit at the Smithsonian.

    The National Museum of African American History and Culture has been popular since it opened a few years ago, but places like Independence Hall and Williamsburg are seen as too 'white' and as you know, the Flight From White includes most white people.

    https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/68f6ec2/2147483647/strip/true/crop/5360x3015+0+449/resize/1280x720!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmediaassets.wtkr.com%2Ftribune-network%2Ftribwtkr-files-wordpress%2F2016%2F07%2Fvirginia-colonial-williamsburg.jpg

    No one’s interested any more. And even when “Americans” visit Washington, the main things they want to see are the Spy Museum, the Holocaust Museum, and maybe the gemological exhibit at the Smithsonian.

    Gotta say, the Holocaust museum plopped down on the national mall was one giant power f.u. from the Jews to America’s founding stock WASPs who actually created and built the nation.

    I thought at the time, this was utterly inappropriate. The Holocaust was after all in … Europe. That’s a continent over there across the sea somewhere, not actually in America. (And the US, Soviet and British armies helpfully ended the thing.) If we’re doing that, why not a potato famine museum? The Irish are more numerous and had a lot more to do with settling America. Will we someday get the “Museum of the Great Leap Forward” or “Museum of the Khmer Rouge Genocide” or “Museum of Rwandan Genocide” on the Mall? Of course not. They’re stupid.

    Heck, they even beat the blacks having a Museum of American Slavery. Which is at least legitimate to have on the mall as slavery was actually *here* in America, part of our history. And there’s still museum of the American Indian holocaust. Another part of our history.

    But of course pointing the arrogant sliminess of this out is … “anti-Semitic”. Trivial distinctions like “America” and “somewhere else” are unimportant once it’s about the Jews.

    You got to hand it to the Jews–as unpleasant as it is to be around–they aren’t wallflowers. They push “the suffering of the Jews” to the front burner and everyone must “pay attention!” to their lecture … or you’re anti-Semitic. (Another reward Americans reap for giving Jews refuge and treating Jews better than pretty much any middle man minority has ever been treated anywhere.)

    • Agree: JMcG, HammerJack
    • Replies: @anon
    Gotta say, the Holocaust museum plopped down on the national mall was one giant power f.u. from the Jews to America’s founding stock WASPs who actually created and built the nation.

    But it's not just DC.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_memorials_and_museums_in_the_United_States

    Some of these are billed as "Museum of Tolerance and Education" or some such name. Maybe these edifices mention other, similar, tragedies such as the attempted Armenian genocide by the Turks, or the ongoing slo-motion Tibetan genocide by the Han Chinese, or the millions of Russian and Ukranian Christians who were essentially murdered for their faith.

    Maybe. Possibly.

    But the focus is obviously on one group of Very Special People who are more specialer than anyone else in the world, throughout all time, and by golly every single goy will learn Peace and Tolerance in a museum, period. Because bigotry, and every white American is just one breath away from becoming a NaziCossck. Therefore white Americans must be controlled, brainwashed, and controlled some more, for the good of the world. Or something.

    It's a really overt version of retconning American history. Just like the whole "Ellis Island nation of immigrants" story, which deliberately marginalizes and ignores and even erases the existence of an entire group of people for some reason or other.

    What's that called, again? I forget.
    , @Jack D
    The Holocaust Museum is well placed in our capital city because it serves a reminder of what can happen if we discard our Constitutional framework and allow ourselves to be ruled by decree. Even if we are undergoing some national crisis, allowing our elected leaders to seize unlimited power is never a good idea - it can lead to great tragedy. Leaders who have tasted absolute power are like tigers who have tasted human blood - they will never again be content with anything less and the only "cure" is to destroy them. Right now is a particularly good time to be reminded that we should never let our precious freedoms be taken away from us - our very lives may depend on it someday. Maybe at first you don't care, because YOUR job has not been taken away, YOU are not the one who has been arrested or fined. Just wait. Your turn will come.

    The Holocaust Museum is not there for the Jews. Jews have plenty of reminders about the Holocaust and don't need to visit Washington to know what happened. It's there for everyone else. Disregard its lessons at your peril. Now that white people are about to become a minority in America, this means YOU. You think, "I am no middle man minority. I am of the Founding Stock in my own great nation. I am the man with the riding crop and the Luger, not the poor shnook in the cattle car. This story means nothing to me." You are wrong.

    , @SFG
    Gotta say, the Holocaust museum plopped down on the national mall was one giant power f.u. from the Jews to America’s founding stock WASPs who actually created and built the nation.

    I get that it's a bit out of place (and I'd rather see a Museum of the American Jewish Experience talking about science, industry (ok, finance), and the arts, with dioramas of tenements and suburban houses and a shop that serves pastrami sandwiches), but how is that an f.u to the Founders? Germany, maybe, but the Founders? Does the Holocaust Museum blame George Washington for Auschwitz?

    Most histories of the Jews I've read are pretty friendly to the USA.
  135. @AnotherDad


    How stupid, how utterly useless do you need to be to squander the unprecedented potential that the US had after the USSR imploded?
     
    As utterly stupid as this is from the perspective of national governance, it really isn't a function of "stupidity".

    It's having an elite that is alienated from the nation--doesn't not think of the nation as a nation but merely as its marketplace.

    Those attitudes are obvious--omnipresent in elite media. Allowing such people any say, tolerating even a whiff of such attitudes in our national life was a grave mistake.

    This seems to me like a direct consequence of having an empire, and while we had already had an empire before the cold war ended (or even started), it certainly was put on steroids when the cold war ended.

    When your elites are ruling many countries other than your own, then your country is just one of many to them that they happen to rule. And the difference between them as international rulers and various types of provincials are magnified, and the differences between the various types of different provincials minimized.

    • Agree: unit472
  136. anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:

    This is the time for a massive sea change in foreign policy with the Chinese primitives currently empowering their Chinese Elites The elite don’t have to worry about “human rights,” so wet markets, chinese voo doo and such, can be effectively squelched if Trump gives them the financial motivation. It’s 2020. The intellectually retarded aspect of the Chinese culture needs tending to before we can move forward. The worst of the chinese culture has too much of an affect on the world, while giving too little.

    James Woods demonstrates his mad pattern recognition skills:

  137. @Steve Sailer
    Downtown Philadelphia is pretty awesome. City Hall, for example, is jaw-dropping.

    Downtown Philadelphia is pretty awesome. City Hall, for example, is jaw-dropping.

    When did you first visit, Steve?

    When I was a kid, even well into my twenties Center City wasn’t a place most people went unless they worked in a few discrete industries or for the City and County itself. My great uncle Joe was a Sheriff’s Deputy and transported the accused to and from Court in City Hall (before all criminal matters were relegated to a purpose made building) so he went there. But you usually just wouldn’t go there for non-necessary purposes.

    Even into the early 2000s and before the effects of the urban crime wave were seen to really have abated if you were in Center City at, say, 4:45 p.m. on a weekday the various storefront shops would begin rolling the steel doors down. Except the odd field trip to the Liberty Bell or Independence Hall, my entire experience largely excluded Center City and was restricted to Northeast Philadelphia where I lived, and South Philadelphia where my extended family lived. Center City was that stuff you could see from I-95 that linked the two and which you’d only get a good look at during busy traffic on a Friday on your way down the shore.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    transported the accused to and from Court in City Hall
     
    IIRC, they had some kind of chain link fence cage where they would back up the vans with the prisoners on the apron around City Hall, which did not add to the aesthetics of the place.

    City Hall, when built, was (in those days of much smaller government) intended to house the ENTIRE county level government - not just the municipal administrative offices but City Council chambers and the court rooms and deed recorder and other functions as well. So it was more than just a "City Hall".

    if you were in Center City at, say, 4:45 p.m. on a weekday the various storefront shops would begin rolling the steel doors down
     
    It depends on how you define "Center City" (e.g. the Rittenhouse Sq. area always remained pretty nice, likewise Society Hill) but yeah, if you were talking about say Chestnut St. east of city all it was pretty grim. The shops, even when they were open, aside from fast food places catering to the lunchtime trade, were mostly in the nature of wig shops and stores selling ghetto attire and disreputable electronic stores and other shady businesses catering to a largely black trade. Or else they were older businesses that were in the twilight of their existence - typewriter repair shops and such. It was really a pretty grim and depressing scene.
  138. I think the more interesting patterns are visible in per capita figures. New York, New Orleans, Albany Georgia, and Internationally famous ski resort towns are the US hot spots 1%+ of the population with a confirmed case, with Detroit, Miami, Chicago, and Seattle are in the next tiers down. Everywhere else is under 1 in 200 people confirmed either because of lack of cases or lack of testing.

  139. @Paleo Liberal
    I went to college outside Philly in the late 70s and early 80s.

    In those days, as the saying went, no building was higher than Billy Penn's hat.

    Although there were buildings literally across the street from City Hall that came very close to Mr. Penn in height.

    Center City had a rather different character in those days. There are only a few cities remaining with that sort of restriction. Washington, DC is one, and, on a smaller scale, Madison, WI. It always seems rather strange to see big cities without any real skyscrapers.

    Center City had a rather different character in those days. There are only a few cities remaining with that sort of restriction. Washington, DC is one, and, on a smaller scale, Madison, WI. It always seems rather strange to see big cities without any real skyscrapers.

    In my opinion the aesthetics of a City skyline are a lot like a man’s haircut.

    A few long hairs don’t make up a head, just as one or two very tall buildings don’t make up a skyline. A man would usually look better with a head of hair all about the same length with some minor variations than with a few long wisps and little else (in which case shaving the head to achieve this evening out is optimal). Cities with a only a few prominent tall buildings and little else are the comb-over or mullet of skylines.

    Skyscrapers look best in large, dense flocks without too many outliers poking above the rest and without large perceived voids. I know that even 19 years later it’s still a heresy, but I always felt that the World Trade Center towers made the overall Manhattan skyline unbalanced by their magnitude compared to the rest of the tall buildings.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Skyscrapers look best in large, dense flocks without too many outliers poking above the rest and without large perceived voids.
     
    Not really—it depends on the specific location and architecture. The skylines of mid-1980s to ‘90s Miami (with its stand-alone illuminated Centrust Tower) and Boston’s Back Bay with its Prudential and John Hancock towers look(ed) great. But visually speaking, each city is in danger of being overbuilt—e.g., Boston’s new generic ultra-slick flat-topped One Dalton is too tall, impudently competing with the nearby iconic ‘retro’ Prudential.

    Boston’s beautiful Back Bay skyline (most pics pre- One Dalton):

    https://www.google.com/images?q=boston+skyline+back+bay

    Eighties downtown Miami:

    https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/ziRj7XF_csbpYEV_R5RLREndU-E=/56x67:2735x1574/720x405/media/img/mt/2016/08/AP_96120601647/original.jpg

    https://footage.framepool.com/shotimg/qf/421787251-miami-tower-miami-vice-film-administration-building-miami-florida.jpg
  140. @Steve Sailer
    Cars, I imagine.

    People in San Francisco rely on public transit, and their infection rate is relatively low.

    They took Coronavirus seriously sooner than most of the rest of the country.

  141. @SFG
    Eh, I like old stuff. Williamsburg is part of the history of this country and ought to remain as a monument to the people who built it. I don't share any direct ancestors, but I live here, and those men built the country that became the country that became the country that became the country that became the country I live in now. We don't have to do everything the way the old guys did it, but their names ought to stay on the buildings. If I moved to France, I wouldn't demand the demolition of the Dome des Invalides.

    By and large you are correct, though. One of the reasons the Confederacy gets remembered more than the Union (despite losing the war) is the large wave of immigration that flooded through the North shortly afterward. More people could probably name Lee, Stuart, Stonewall Jackson, and Longstreet than the generals who defeated them.

    One of the reasons the Confederacy gets remembered more than the Union (despite losing the war) is the large wave of immigration that flooded through the North shortly afterward.

    The other reason is that Confederate commemoration became tied up with the myth of the Lost Cause and the desire of the Southern population to undo Reconstruction and maintain white power (ACTUAL white power, not in the modern bullshit sense).

    In NY, Grant’s Tomb (a monument befitting a Roman emperor) ended up in a black (and Puerto Rican) neighborhood. Now you would think that they of all people would venerate the man who liberated them but in fact they could care less. It’s a little better now, but in the ’80s the place was covered in graffiti. Directly outside the Tomb someone in the ’70s had the brilliant idea “to get the community involved” and they built these crude concrete benches covered in broken bathroom tiles formed into primitive mosaics directly outside this formal classical building, with total disregard for how this disfigured the dignity of the monument. It was like something the barbarians might have done after the fall of Rome and these foul things still stand and are now “historic” in their own right.

    • Replies: @anonymous

    In NY, Grant’s Tomb (a monument befitting a Roman emperor) ended up in a black (and Puerto Rican) neighborhood
     
    That's not a black or puerto rican neighborhood. It's rich whites and jews along that parcel of Riverside Drive. If you head east past Broadway into Amsterdam ave, you'll be running into Puerto Ricans, but that ain't the same neighborhood.
    , @obwandiyag
    When I went to Gettysburg for a visit to the battlefield, I found it jam-packed with Southerners, younger people mostly, bemoaning the turning of the tide. Some things never change.
  142. anon[244] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad


    No one’s interested any more. And even when “Americans” visit Washington, the main things they want to see are the Spy Museum, the Holocaust Museum, and maybe the gemological exhibit at the Smithsonian.
     
    Gotta say, the Holocaust museum plopped down on the national mall was one giant power f.u. from the Jews to America's founding stock WASPs who actually created and built the nation.

    I thought at the time, this was utterly inappropriate. The Holocaust was after all in ... Europe. That's a continent over there across the sea somewhere, not actually in America. (And the US, Soviet and British armies helpfully ended the thing.) If we're doing that, why not a potato famine museum? The Irish are more numerous and had a lot more to do with settling America. Will we someday get the "Museum of the Great Leap Forward" or "Museum of the Khmer Rouge Genocide" or "Museum of Rwandan Genocide" on the Mall? Of course not. They're stupid.

    Heck, they even beat the blacks having a Museum of American Slavery. Which is at least legitimate to have on the mall as slavery was actually *here* in America, part of our history. And there's still museum of the American Indian holocaust. Another part of our history.

    But of course pointing the arrogant sliminess of this out is ... "anti-Semitic". Trivial distinctions like "America" and "somewhere else" are unimportant once it's about the Jews.

    You got to hand it to the Jews--as unpleasant as it is to be around--they aren't wallflowers. They push "the suffering of the Jews" to the front burner and everyone must "pay attention!" to their lecture ... or you're anti-Semitic. (Another reward Americans reap for giving Jews refuge and treating Jews better than pretty much any middle man minority has ever been treated anywhere.)

    Gotta say, the Holocaust museum plopped down on the national mall was one giant power f.u. from the Jews to America’s founding stock WASPs who actually created and built the nation.

    But it’s not just DC.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Holocaust_memorials_and_museums_in_the_United_States

    Some of these are billed as “Museum of Tolerance and Education” or some such name. Maybe these edifices mention other, similar, tragedies such as the attempted Armenian genocide by the Turks, or the ongoing slo-motion Tibetan genocide by the Han Chinese, or the millions of Russian and Ukranian Christians who were essentially murdered for their faith.

    Maybe. Possibly.

    But the focus is obviously on one group of Very Special People who are more specialer than anyone else in the world, throughout all time, and by golly every single goy will learn Peace and Tolerance in a museum, period. Because bigotry, and every white American is just one breath away from becoming a NaziCossck. Therefore white Americans must be controlled, brainwashed, and controlled some more, for the good of the world. Or something.

    It’s a really overt version of retconning American history. Just like the whole “Ellis Island nation of immigrants” story, which deliberately marginalizes and ignores and even erases the existence of an entire group of people for some reason or other.

    What’s that called, again? I forget.

  143. @eD
    I mostly agree with this but will focus on two problems I have with this narrative, a minor one and a major one.

    The minor problem is that the reason there are few buildings from the colonial period in New York is that nearly all of them burned down in a fire in 1835 and in similar fires. Its the same reason why its hard to find buildings from the Civil War period in Chicago. The buildings that survived the fire almost all got reserved.

    The second problem is related to a trope I often read on this site and is a logical issue. Immigration would have nothing to do with a decline in attendance at an attraction favored by the "native" non-immigrant population. This is even assuming that the entire population increase of the USA after 1985 was due to immigration and that there was no assimilation whatsoever (it happens that there is evidence to support both of these assumptions). Logically, this could well produce a stagnation in attendance at something like colonial Williamsburg but would not produce a decline in attendance. To get a decline in attendance, you need an absolute decline in the numbers of the native population.

    Well since 1985 there hasn't been a decline in the number of "real" Americans however you define it. But there has been a decline in the number of middle class Americans and this is well documented. This would cause difficulty at institutions catering to the said middle class.

    Well since 1985 there hasn’t been a decline in the number of “real” Americans however you define it.

    White fertility has been sub-replacement since sometime around 1970. Founding stock and founding stock identifying are no different.

    Is your argument simply that in absolute numbers there are still more? I think even that has almost rolled over and if you just looked at the core white population it is ZPG now. But even if numbers are still close to flat there’s a visiting pattern. Some of these places a family with children goes–once. And there are fewer young families with fewer kids.

    The second problem is related to a trope I often read on this site and is a logical issue. Immigration would have nothing to do with a decline in attendance at an attraction favored by the “native” non-immigrant population.

    This is the crux of my disagreement.

    Immigrationism isn’t just biologically flooding the real estate with foreigners, where the native population nevertheless just moseys along.

    The dominant ideology of Jewish minoritarianism works tirelessly to delegitimize the nation–it’s founding, it’s traditions, norms, values, culture. To not only say the national majority people and culture are not special and entitled to be dominant but that they are flawed, colorless, bland, stale and … even evil, in contrast to colorful, enlivening and virtuous oppressed minorities.

    We get this from academia, news media, public education, government and Hollyweird. We are steeped in it. Full delegitimization, 24x7x365. It’s a small wonder any families go to Jamestown or Yorktown or Williamsburg at all.

  144. @Mr McKenna

    "Why Is Philadelphia Not Much Like New York City?"
     
    Another, possibly relevant question: Why don't Asians like Ann Coulter? Oh, I know:

    Washington state was the site of our very first case. Washington state is also 9.3% Asian. Even now, it has eight times more coronavirus cases per capita than neighboring Oregon (4.8% Asian).

    Could it be that Chinese-Americans have more contact with the epicenter of this plague than other Americans? As the left always lectures us, BELIEVE THE SCIENCE!

    The virus next leapt to New York (9% Asian) and New Jersey (10% Asian). The worst-hit borough of Manhattan is Queens. Guess which borough has the most Asians? Elmhurst Hospital in Queens is the worst-hit hospital in the nation. Elmhurst neighborhood: 50% Asian.

    Notice a pattern? While it’s true that “viruses don’t have nationalities!” — and thank you very much for pointing that out, media! — the carriers of viruses do have nationalities.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/ill-have-the-chicken-testicle-soup-hold-the-deadly-virus/
     

    BWTM:

    Although, it occurs to me that, despite America’s terrible toxic whiteness, one way our culture is superior to others is that we don’t believe lunatic nonsense that wipes out entire species or launches viral pandemics on the world.
     

    Could it be that Chinese-Americans have more contact with the epicenter of this plague than other Americans?

    But Chinese Canadians didn’t? The very different experiences of Seattle and Vancouver are a curious exception.

    • Agree: Mr McKenna
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Perhaps its that Vancouver has better quality of wet markets for the exotic animals (e.g. bat) as opposed to Seattle's.
  145. One difference is that it’s an old-fashioned white and black city with far, far fewer immigrants than NYC (per capita) and far less international travel.

  146. @black sea
    Most of Colonial Williamsburg is actually a 20th century reconstruction. Around 80% of the structures there were built in the 1920s, generally on the foundations of the structures being recreated. It's a bit of a historical Disneyland.

    “Most of Colonial Williamsburg is actually a 20th century reconstruction. Around 80% of the structures there were built in the 1920s, generally on the foundations of the structures being recreated. It’s a bit of a historical Disneyland.”

    Nothing wrong with that. It’s certainly more worthwhile than dreck like The Wizarding World of Harry Potter or Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Ah, yes, there's nothing like making a cheap buck off of nostalgia. To a pure and pristine past, as idealized and saccharine as possible. At least its authentic history, folks! And all built with perfect symmetry and proportions, just like they did in days of yore.

    Ugh, goodness gracious, and egad.
  147. I can’t offer speculation on New York v. Philadelphia when the older and bigger unexplained discrepancy of Italy v. Germany is still puzzling me. Or Lombardy v. everywhere else

    Isn’t it still too early to explain away differences when variation seems very random during early stages of spread due to incubation time and other yet unknown variables?

  148. Philly’s numbers are certainly looking better in 2020 than they did in 1918.

    As for NYC, we’re at 7,067 deaths now. Ron Unz’s “modeling” reminds me of the orthodontist from the Simpsons who showed Lisa what her teeth would look like if she didn’t get braces.

    • LOL: Muggles
  149. anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    One of the reasons the Confederacy gets remembered more than the Union (despite losing the war) is the large wave of immigration that flooded through the North shortly afterward.
     
    The other reason is that Confederate commemoration became tied up with the myth of the Lost Cause and the desire of the Southern population to undo Reconstruction and maintain white power (ACTUAL white power, not in the modern bullshit sense).

    In NY, Grant's Tomb (a monument befitting a Roman emperor) ended up in a black (and Puerto Rican) neighborhood. Now you would think that they of all people would venerate the man who liberated them but in fact they could care less. It's a little better now, but in the '80s the place was covered in graffiti. Directly outside the Tomb someone in the '70s had the brilliant idea "to get the community involved" and they built these crude concrete benches covered in broken bathroom tiles formed into primitive mosaics directly outside this formal classical building, with total disregard for how this disfigured the dignity of the monument. It was like something the barbarians might have done after the fall of Rome and these foul things still stand and are now "historic" in their own right.

    http://inspicio.fiu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/GT115Signatur.jpg

    In NY, Grant’s Tomb (a monument befitting a Roman emperor) ended up in a black (and Puerto Rican) neighborhood

    That’s not a black or puerto rican neighborhood. It’s rich whites and jews along that parcel of Riverside Drive. If you head east past Broadway into Amsterdam ave, you’ll be running into Puerto Ricans, but that ain’t the same neighborhood.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Grant's Tomb sits at around 123rd St. Two blocks east of it are projects. South of it, up to around 119th St, are the nice Columbia U. apartment buildings you mention. To the north is an industrial area and it never really gets nice again. There has been some gentrification now but not much. Morningside Heights is (as the name implies) on a steep hill and it drops off on all sides. On top of the hill is upscale and the economic level drops with the altitude.
  150. @AnotherDad

    I bet it’s the subway.
     
    Kudos to my fellow commenters here. A lot of people have nailed this right off the bat. There are particular issues--world travel, the Orthodox Jews--but the main thing is that NYC is simply the most dense, most "cityish" city in America. Including the only place that most people use public transport rather than their own car to get to work.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_transit_systems_by_ridership

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density


    ~~~

    A bit of historical perspective ...

    Cities are deeply *unnatural*.

    Our ancestors lived for millions of years in small tribes--no more than 100 or so before they'd split. Then after the neolithic agriculture revolution in small villages. That is the social environment we are designed for.

    But after settlement, suddenly there was this new "ecological niche" of a parasite class using force to rule over and extract from productive farmers. I.e. taxes. (And slavery, serfdom, etc.) There had to be someplace where they parked themselves with their extractive apparatus, bureaucratcy, the military force necessary to protect themselves from other parasites, and all the associated rent-seekers and other assorted hangers on. The city was born.

    (Our two richest super-zippy cities produce basically nothing Americans want, but are simply the Wall Street-Washington twin poles of parasitism living large off productive people in the vast American heartland.)

    It was only with the industrial revolution that scale in productive endeavors required city--at least small city scale for some productive activities.


    Cities have *always* been the population sinks in the best of times and the epicenters of epidemic in the worst.

    It wasn't until the late industrial revolution when we had the capability to provide clean water and effective sanitation that cities even could replicate their population.

    But even with that ... they still don't. Every year we have hundreds of thousands of smart young women with their fresh BAs flocking to the "cool places to be" cities--NY, DC, LA, the Bay Area, Seattle, Chicago, Boston--for their b.s. BA careers. And then with the expensive housing and glued to their jobs forming families late--or never at all. These cities are not just population sinks but IQ shredders.


    Ironically ... there's less need for the city than ever before! The one truly productive aspect of the city was that proximity facilitated knowledge sharing. The latest ideas in science and technology--how the world works and how to do things better. But now proximity is moot. Steve doesn't have to have us all over to the iSteve salon--for which he is very thankful! Steve can stay in his closest and we can discuss these issues on-line.

    How about you close the circle, so to speak. WHICH certain ethnic group (in times past designated as a race), is so enthusiastic about cities for their own sakes, and living in them, and thinking they are the gosh grand dad bestest of all places in which to reside? (e.g. Revolutionary Road, and other books that cast aspersions vs anywhere but city living and city life in general).

    Which group? One that has lived in Europe and the US for at least 2,000 yrs? It alone has influenced, persuaded other groups to adore the city, but its particular zeal and ardor for the city and all its benefits is perhaps unmatched.

    Hint: It’s also called J–York, and Hy—Town for a reason. Most other white ethnic groups, when given a choice, don’t particularly relish living in the city as opposed to the country, or the suburbs in modern times, if they don’t have to. Things that make you go hm…Because that particular ethnic group doesn’t particularly relish living in the country, and tends to put down suburbs via pejoratives such as “sprawl” and “white flight”.

    Wonder why that is?

    • Replies: @dr kill
    It has been my observation that those to whom you refer enthusiastically and voluntarily prefer to reside in apartment blocks that, to me, closely resemble the famous mid-twentieth century constructions of the German National Socialists.
    Century Villages, there are many of them in these parts.
  151. Anon[232] • Disclaimer says:
    @eD
    "Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be ‘inclusive’ with a several dozen slavery exhibits."

    This claim took me by surprise, but I googled "number of visitors to Colonial Williamsburg" and found a local news article from 2017 stating that the number of visitors peaked in 1984 at 1.1 million, when my parents took me there, and by 2016 had been halved, to 564,000. The population of the USA as a whole grew by 110 million during this time.

    "Close up shop" might be an exaggeration. The non-profit that runs Colonial Williamsburg gets most of its support from corporate donors, and it would take a bigger shift in the culture to get to a situation where no one pays for the upkeep of the historic buildings. I could see that happening -the article on Independence Hall posted earlier by another commentator stated that was going to be demolished until the Philadelphia city government bought it- but we are not quite there yet.

    My opinion on the visitor receipts is that the foundation should be investing in hotels, and pretty much be selling the experience as a sort of luxury vacation where a customer stays in a luxury hotel and gets tour of the buildings (you can pay to stay in the historic buildings even now). This would cope with the decline/ vanishing of the American middle class, which I suspect is the real reason behind the declining visitor totals, as it affects the park. With the shutdown of small businesses (and also educational institutions, and the latest Big Bailout, the decline of the American middle class will only accelerate and in fact this event could finish it off. Nor does it help Colonial Williamsburg, which according to the website is closed temporarily, though only small numbers of people at the time could visit the historical buildings anyway.

    Eras in history go through fads in which they are rediscovered. The Colonial era just isn’t in vogue at the moment. Right now, it’s Downtown Abbey-era Britain. When Ken Burns did his Civil War series on TV some years back, the Civil War era was all the rage, though that’s declined quite a bit. It would give Williamsburg a boom if someone created a Colonial era TV series–but without all the PC nonsense.

    Anyway, I’ve been to Williamsburg, but wasn’t very impressed by it. I thought the recreation of Louisbourg in Canada was much better. It’s even larger than Williamsburg, and a lot more grand and imposing.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    The 150th anniversary of Gettysburg was a damp squib. I expect the 75th anniversaries of the major events in WWII will be the same. It’s not our country anymore.
  152. @Jack D

    Never even built a skyscraper until 1980s.
     
    For someone who has worked in Philly for 20 years, you show remarkable ignorance.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSFS_Building

    Philadelphia at one time had an unwritten "gentleman's agreement", enforced by city planner Edmund Bacon (father of the actor Kevin) that no skyscraper would rise higher than City Hall (548'). But there were plenty of skyscrapers, they were just all 50 floors or less.

    This was finally broken in the '80s by 1 Liberty Place (a Chrysler Building ripoff).

    It’s always sad when building traditions like the height limit in Philadelphia are broken. It can’t really be undone.

    The most beautiful European cities respect strict height limits. The tallest building in Europe opened recently in St. Petersburg, Russia, and it looks completely and bizarrely out of place. The fairly recent skyscraper additions to the London skyline are hideous.

    Stately and spacious college campuses are easily ruined by one president who is too eager to build. It takes effort to respect limits, but they are there for a reason.

    • Agree: Cortes
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The fairly recent skyscraper additions to the London skyline are hideous.
     
    London:


    https://live.staticflickr.com/5505/11582583755_db05302875_m.jpg

    Doha:

    https://designermanifesto.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/condom-tower1.jpg

    Better a gherkin than a condom!

  153. Philly is only like NYC in that it has a large population of useless New World Africans.

  154. @Jack D

    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be ‘inclusive’ with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one’s interested any more.
     
    For most of the 19th century, Americans were not at all interested in historic buildings. They were just OLD buildings to them and they had no qualms about knocking them down to build something new and better. You can count on the fingers of 1 hand the number of pre-Revolutionary buildings in Manhattan. Williamsburg survived because it was a backwater and no one was interested in building anything new there so they let the colonial buildings just molder without bothering to knock them down. For almost a century, the Levy family pleaded with the US Government to take over Monticello and the government turned them down over and over (despite being offered the place for free). Taking care of old buildings in perpetuity was not the business of government.

    So what changed? A big impetus was that as America was being overwhelmed by the last great wave of immigration, Founding Stock Americans wanted to stake a claim for themselves that they were better than New Americans because their ancestors got here first and were the ones responsible for the great system that we have. Historic buildings were tangible proof of their claim and needed to be preserved. The preservation of Williamsburg dates only to the 1920s.

    And of course they were right - as the new generation of Americans is half white, visits to Williamsburg have fallen by half. If you are a Latino, what Tomas Yefferson was doing in 1776 is of no great concern to you. Latinos don't really care about history or other book larnin' type stuff in general, let alone wasting their time walking thru some dusty old building where the white guys in wigs used to debate.

    You can count on the fingers of 1 hand the number of pre-Revolutionary buildings in Manhattan.

    I’ve always liked the Morris-Jumel Mansion:

    St Paul’s Chapel is quite charming. Fun tidbit: Lovecraft (a huge fan of all things pertaining to the 18th century) chose St Paul’s as the location of his nuptials to Sonia Greene in 1924:

  155. @AnotherDad


    No one’s interested any more. And even when “Americans” visit Washington, the main things they want to see are the Spy Museum, the Holocaust Museum, and maybe the gemological exhibit at the Smithsonian.
     
    Gotta say, the Holocaust museum plopped down on the national mall was one giant power f.u. from the Jews to America's founding stock WASPs who actually created and built the nation.

    I thought at the time, this was utterly inappropriate. The Holocaust was after all in ... Europe. That's a continent over there across the sea somewhere, not actually in America. (And the US, Soviet and British armies helpfully ended the thing.) If we're doing that, why not a potato famine museum? The Irish are more numerous and had a lot more to do with settling America. Will we someday get the "Museum of the Great Leap Forward" or "Museum of the Khmer Rouge Genocide" or "Museum of Rwandan Genocide" on the Mall? Of course not. They're stupid.

    Heck, they even beat the blacks having a Museum of American Slavery. Which is at least legitimate to have on the mall as slavery was actually *here* in America, part of our history. And there's still museum of the American Indian holocaust. Another part of our history.

    But of course pointing the arrogant sliminess of this out is ... "anti-Semitic". Trivial distinctions like "America" and "somewhere else" are unimportant once it's about the Jews.

    You got to hand it to the Jews--as unpleasant as it is to be around--they aren't wallflowers. They push "the suffering of the Jews" to the front burner and everyone must "pay attention!" to their lecture ... or you're anti-Semitic. (Another reward Americans reap for giving Jews refuge and treating Jews better than pretty much any middle man minority has ever been treated anywhere.)

    The Holocaust Museum is well placed in our capital city because it serves a reminder of what can happen if we discard our Constitutional framework and allow ourselves to be ruled by decree. Even if we are undergoing some national crisis, allowing our elected leaders to seize unlimited power is never a good idea – it can lead to great tragedy. Leaders who have tasted absolute power are like tigers who have tasted human blood – they will never again be content with anything less and the only “cure” is to destroy them. Right now is a particularly good time to be reminded that we should never let our precious freedoms be taken away from us – our very lives may depend on it someday. Maybe at first you don’t care, because YOUR job has not been taken away, YOU are not the one who has been arrested or fined. Just wait. Your turn will come.

    The Holocaust Museum is not there for the Jews. Jews have plenty of reminders about the Holocaust and don’t need to visit Washington to know what happened. It’s there for everyone else. Disregard its lessons at your peril. Now that white people are about to become a minority in America, this means YOU. You think, “I am no middle man minority. I am of the Founding Stock in my own great nation. I am the man with the riding crop and the Luger, not the poor shnook in the cattle car. This story means nothing to me.” You are wrong.

    • Disagree: JMcG
    • Replies: @anon
    You think, “I am no middle man minority. I am of the Founding Stock in my own great nation. I am the man with the riding crop and the Luger, not the poor shnook in the cattle car. This story means nothing to me.” You are wrong.

    Pretty good trolling, Jack. Keep it up and maybe someday you can be as good as Tiny Duck.
    , @Art Deco
    It actually is misplaced.
    , @BenKenobi
    • Chutzpah: BenKenobi
    , @Faraday's Bobcat

    “I am no middle man minority. I am of the Founding Stock in my own great nation. I am the man with the riding crop and the Luger, not the poor shnook in the cattle car. This story means nothing to me.”
     
    Jack D, you sound like a pretty smart guy, but you're incredibly tone-deaf. You're as tone-deaf as the rich dentist in my small town who's building a Holocaust memorial so they can bus all the schoolkids through it.

    Your comment, and all these museums and memorials, sound an awful lot like accusations. But it's nothing new. People are getting to the point where they assume Great-Uncle Pete who was in the Army in WWII must have been over there helping the Nazis, not killing them, because why else do we have to be told over and over and over how wrong the Holocaust was?
    , @Twinkie

    The Holocaust Museum is well placed in our capital city because it serves a reminder of what can happen if we discard our Constitutional framework and allow ourselves to be ruled by decree.
     
    Wouldn’t the Rape of Nanking Museum serve just as good of an example? Of what happens when you turn the country over to a military-industrial complex?

    The Holocaust Museum is not there for the Jews.
     
    You are right - I think it serves as a great reminder to the rest of us non-Jews exactly who the most favored (the most victimest) people are in the United States. Their (your) suffering is all our suffering, and we best remember that (or else!).

    Next, we should construct the Armenian Genocide Museum in D.C. And after that, for the truly exotic, the Museum of Dzungar Genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_genocide

    We can keep going with these “reminders” until 95% of D.C. landmass is filled with memorials to atrocities that Americans did not commit and whose victims were not Americans. Because America is the world and the world is America! No borders!
  156. @syonredux
    "Most of Colonial Williamsburg is actually a 20th century reconstruction. Around 80% of the structures there were built in the 1920s, generally on the foundations of the structures being recreated. It’s a bit of a historical Disneyland."


    Nothing wrong with that. It's certainly more worthwhile than dreck like The Wizarding World of Harry Potter or Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge

    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9QSTam_CI5M/VtJSdt-xEzI/AAAAAAAAEVI/oS7KlEbLOU4/s1600/brutonparishchurch.jpg

    Ah, yes, there’s nothing like making a cheap buck off of nostalgia. To a pure and pristine past, as idealized and saccharine as possible. At least its authentic history, folks! And all built with perfect symmetry and proportions, just like they did in days of yore.

    Ugh, goodness gracious, and egad.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    Ah, yes, there’s nothing like making a cheap buck off of nostalgia. To a pure and pristine past, as idealized and saccharine as possible. At least its authentic history, folks! And all built with perfect symmetry and proportions, just like they did in days of yore.

    Ugh, goodness gracious, and egad.
     
    Dear fellow, John D Rockefeller, jr, spent vast sums of money on the restoration; he wasn't expecting to turn a profit on the thing.


    Given the choice, I would much rather see children going to Williamsburg than wasting their youth visiting theme parks dedicated to JK Rowling's sub-literate trash.
    , @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Ugh, goodness gracious, and egad.
     
    Y u mad tho? It looks pretty, and that’s a good thing:

    https://www.google.com/images?q=colonial+williamsburg
  157. @Reg Cæsar

    Could it be that Chinese-Americans have more contact with the epicenter of this plague than other Americans?
     
    But Chinese Canadians didn't? The very different experiences of Seattle and Vancouver are a curious exception.

    Perhaps its that Vancouver has better quality of wet markets for the exotic animals (e.g. bat) as opposed to Seattle’s.

  158. SFG says:
    @AnotherDad


    No one’s interested any more. And even when “Americans” visit Washington, the main things they want to see are the Spy Museum, the Holocaust Museum, and maybe the gemological exhibit at the Smithsonian.
     
    Gotta say, the Holocaust museum plopped down on the national mall was one giant power f.u. from the Jews to America's founding stock WASPs who actually created and built the nation.

    I thought at the time, this was utterly inappropriate. The Holocaust was after all in ... Europe. That's a continent over there across the sea somewhere, not actually in America. (And the US, Soviet and British armies helpfully ended the thing.) If we're doing that, why not a potato famine museum? The Irish are more numerous and had a lot more to do with settling America. Will we someday get the "Museum of the Great Leap Forward" or "Museum of the Khmer Rouge Genocide" or "Museum of Rwandan Genocide" on the Mall? Of course not. They're stupid.

    Heck, they even beat the blacks having a Museum of American Slavery. Which is at least legitimate to have on the mall as slavery was actually *here* in America, part of our history. And there's still museum of the American Indian holocaust. Another part of our history.

    But of course pointing the arrogant sliminess of this out is ... "anti-Semitic". Trivial distinctions like "America" and "somewhere else" are unimportant once it's about the Jews.

    You got to hand it to the Jews--as unpleasant as it is to be around--they aren't wallflowers. They push "the suffering of the Jews" to the front burner and everyone must "pay attention!" to their lecture ... or you're anti-Semitic. (Another reward Americans reap for giving Jews refuge and treating Jews better than pretty much any middle man minority has ever been treated anywhere.)

    Gotta say, the Holocaust museum plopped down on the national mall was one giant power f.u. from the Jews to America’s founding stock WASPs who actually created and built the nation.

    I get that it’s a bit out of place (and I’d rather see a Museum of the American Jewish Experience talking about science, industry (ok, finance), and the arts, with dioramas of tenements and suburban houses and a shop that serves pastrami sandwiches), but how is that an f.u to the Founders? Germany, maybe, but the Founders? Does the Holocaust Museum blame George Washington for Auschwitz?

    Most histories of the Jews I’ve read are pretty friendly to the USA.

    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    Why is it in the US then? Is there ever going to be a Great Terror Museum, A Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution Museum, A Killing Fields Museum, An Ottomans killing Armenians Museum here in the US capital, of course not, the question answers itself.
  159. @AnonAnon
    Californians are pathetic when it comes to venturing farther east in the US than Las Vegas. If their kids are lucky their parents will spring for an extracurricular whirlwind one week 8th grade summer trip to DC, Philly, and NY. I can’t blame us, since my east coast husband I became Californians 20+ years ago we’ve only vacationed once back to NYC/Boston with the kids to see our relatives. The west coast (including Hawaii since it’s so “close” for us) is so spectacularly beautiful there really isn’t much of a compelling reason to go back.

    I can’t blame us, since my east coast husband I became Californians 20+ years ago we’ve only vacationed once back to NYC/Boston with the kids to see our relatives. The west coast (including Hawaii since it’s so “close” for us) is so spectacularly beautiful there really isn’t much of a compelling reason to go back.

    The Northeast is also spectacularly beautiful in a very different way, which should be as compelling a reason to go back as anyone has to go from the Northeast to California.

    • Agree: Hibernian
  160. anon[243] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    The Holocaust Museum is well placed in our capital city because it serves a reminder of what can happen if we discard our Constitutional framework and allow ourselves to be ruled by decree. Even if we are undergoing some national crisis, allowing our elected leaders to seize unlimited power is never a good idea - it can lead to great tragedy. Leaders who have tasted absolute power are like tigers who have tasted human blood - they will never again be content with anything less and the only "cure" is to destroy them. Right now is a particularly good time to be reminded that we should never let our precious freedoms be taken away from us - our very lives may depend on it someday. Maybe at first you don't care, because YOUR job has not been taken away, YOU are not the one who has been arrested or fined. Just wait. Your turn will come.

    The Holocaust Museum is not there for the Jews. Jews have plenty of reminders about the Holocaust and don't need to visit Washington to know what happened. It's there for everyone else. Disregard its lessons at your peril. Now that white people are about to become a minority in America, this means YOU. You think, "I am no middle man minority. I am of the Founding Stock in my own great nation. I am the man with the riding crop and the Luger, not the poor shnook in the cattle car. This story means nothing to me." You are wrong.

    You think, “I am no middle man minority. I am of the Founding Stock in my own great nation. I am the man with the riding crop and the Luger, not the poor shnook in the cattle car. This story means nothing to me.” You are wrong.

    Pretty good trolling, Jack. Keep it up and maybe someday you can be as good as Tiny Duck.

  161. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be ‘inclusive’ with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one’s interested any more.
     
    For most of the 19th century, Americans were not at all interested in historic buildings. They were just OLD buildings to them and they had no qualms about knocking them down to build something new and better. You can count on the fingers of 1 hand the number of pre-Revolutionary buildings in Manhattan. Williamsburg survived because it was a backwater and no one was interested in building anything new there so they let the colonial buildings just molder without bothering to knock them down. For almost a century, the Levy family pleaded with the US Government to take over Monticello and the government turned them down over and over (despite being offered the place for free). Taking care of old buildings in perpetuity was not the business of government.

    So what changed? A big impetus was that as America was being overwhelmed by the last great wave of immigration, Founding Stock Americans wanted to stake a claim for themselves that they were better than New Americans because their ancestors got here first and were the ones responsible for the great system that we have. Historic buildings were tangible proof of their claim and needed to be preserved. The preservation of Williamsburg dates only to the 1920s.

    And of course they were right - as the new generation of Americans is half white, visits to Williamsburg have fallen by half. If you are a Latino, what Tomas Yefferson was doing in 1776 is of no great concern to you. Latinos don't really care about history or other book larnin' type stuff in general, let alone wasting their time walking thru some dusty old building where the white guys in wigs used to debate.

    Great post by Jack D. If I criticize him when he makes off the wall unsubstantiated claims, I have to praise him when he dispenses truths, especially subtle not immediately intuitive ones. His point underscores the controversy around confederate symbols in the flags of Southern States. Many of these symbols didn’t appear in these flags until immediately after WWII when Jim Crow and segregation policies came under attack (e.g. Thurmond’s Dixiecrat run in 48 as a reaction to Dems 48 platform). Those who claim that those symbols have no racial connotations and are only meant to honor a Southern heritage of service and courage are dishonest.

    • Replies: @schnellandine

    Those who claim that those symbols have no racial connotations and are only meant to honor a Southern heritage of service and courage are dishonest.
     
    You are not equipped to know what a symbol means to a man.
    , @J.Ross
    Georgia, yes: Alabama, South Carolina, North Carolina, Florida, West Virginia, and Virginia, no. (Recall the bizarre unforced error Georgia tell into trying to accommodate enemies of their flag in 2001, they went to a cluttered mess like a Boer flag). Derb has written about the enormous and forgotten work after the Civil War to reunite the country. It wasn't racist. The bigoted, elitist targeting of vulnerable areas by urbanites was. How would someone of Jack's background know anything about the aesthetic sentiment he's discussing (notice which burg he cites)? It certainly is very big and anonymous of you to talk up this action of his as fair-minded.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Those who claim that those symbols have no racial connotations
     
    The flag of slavery was the Stars and Bars. The battle flag was always aimed at enemy whites, then and now. That's why hillbillies wave it today, even though many of their ancestors sided with the Union, against the diversity-loving planters.


    https://media.thegospelcoalition.org/ee/articles/three-CSA-flags1.jpg
  162. @eD
    I mostly agree with this but will focus on two problems I have with this narrative, a minor one and a major one.

    The minor problem is that the reason there are few buildings from the colonial period in New York is that nearly all of them burned down in a fire in 1835 and in similar fires. Its the same reason why its hard to find buildings from the Civil War period in Chicago. The buildings that survived the fire almost all got reserved.

    The second problem is related to a trope I often read on this site and is a logical issue. Immigration would have nothing to do with a decline in attendance at an attraction favored by the "native" non-immigrant population. This is even assuming that the entire population increase of the USA after 1985 was due to immigration and that there was no assimilation whatsoever (it happens that there is evidence to support both of these assumptions). Logically, this could well produce a stagnation in attendance at something like colonial Williamsburg but would not produce a decline in attendance. To get a decline in attendance, you need an absolute decline in the numbers of the native population.

    Well since 1985 there hasn't been a decline in the number of "real" Americans however you define it. But there has been a decline in the number of middle class Americans and this is well documented. This would cause difficulty at institutions catering to the said middle class.

    There hasn’t been any decline in the number of middle-class Americans and this fictitious decline has not been ‘well-documented’.

    No clue what Colonial Williamsburg’s problem is, but lines of inquiry might be: (1) that the democratization of communications has reduced people’s interest in visiting sites physically (which would be manifest in regard to museums generally); (2) people are annoyed at unprofessional behavior by Colonial Williamsburg employees and word-of-mouth injures them (I visited in 1974 and 1997 and was poleaxed by how silly and sloppy some of their interpreters were during the latter visit); (3) that it’s an outing for families with children, and people have fewer children in households with a weaker authority structure; (4) changes in taste for which the reasons are unfathomable (as changes in taste commonly are).

    I discover a couple of Colonial Williamsburg’s competitors (Greenfield Village and Genesee Country Village) have reported increasing attendance as recently as four years ago. Another, Sturbridge Village, isn’t reporting its attendance figures but does report an operating surplus. Could be a problem quite local to Colonial Williamsburg.

  163. @The Alarmist
    It's the magic of the Cheez Whiz® in the cheesesteaks.

    The standard cheese steak is made with white American.

  164. Anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:

    Well, we were right and “protect sickly boomers at all costs” Steve and Greg were wrong.

    When can i expect my apology?

    “I know that’s dreadful news to hear,” the Biden adviser continued. “How are people supposed to find work if this goes on in some form for a year and a half? Is all that economic pain worth trying to stop COVID-19? The truth is we have no choice. … We cannot return to normal until there’s a vaccine. Conferences, concerts, sporting events, religious services, dinner in a restaurant, none of that will resume until we find a vaccine, a treatment, or a cure.”
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-obamacare-architect-zeke-emanuel-says-u-s-should-prepare-ourselves-for-coronavirus-social-distancing-to-last-18-months.amp

    This is utterly insane. Do Steve and Greg get it now? They just assumed–didnt pretend to offer arguments–that we had shut down the world to protect sickly old people.

    Sorry but no. 18 months is literally economic and social collapse. That is infinitely worse than a disease that poses no threat to healthy young people.

    If boomers die, they die. If greg and steve want to stay locked up, they can. But anyone pushing an 18 month ban should literally be tried for crimes against humanity.

  165. @Jack D
    The Holocaust Museum is well placed in our capital city because it serves a reminder of what can happen if we discard our Constitutional framework and allow ourselves to be ruled by decree. Even if we are undergoing some national crisis, allowing our elected leaders to seize unlimited power is never a good idea - it can lead to great tragedy. Leaders who have tasted absolute power are like tigers who have tasted human blood - they will never again be content with anything less and the only "cure" is to destroy them. Right now is a particularly good time to be reminded that we should never let our precious freedoms be taken away from us - our very lives may depend on it someday. Maybe at first you don't care, because YOUR job has not been taken away, YOU are not the one who has been arrested or fined. Just wait. Your turn will come.

    The Holocaust Museum is not there for the Jews. Jews have plenty of reminders about the Holocaust and don't need to visit Washington to know what happened. It's there for everyone else. Disregard its lessons at your peril. Now that white people are about to become a minority in America, this means YOU. You think, "I am no middle man minority. I am of the Founding Stock in my own great nation. I am the man with the riding crop and the Luger, not the poor shnook in the cattle car. This story means nothing to me." You are wrong.

    It actually is misplaced.

  166. @anon
    Send every American under 65 a mask in the mail and have them go back to work by the end of April, if not sooner.

    Include laundering instructions for reuse.

    From here on any benefit of quarantine has passed the point of diminishing returns. More young people will die of alcoholism and suicide due to the economic fallout than elderly would be saved by maintaining the quarantine. Masks have been demonstrated effective in Asia and explain why the virus has virtually skipped over their countries while wrecking havoc on mask-esqueing Western countries.

    Perhaps 2% of Americans are already seropositive for the virus, meaning 6 million have been infection, of those it's killed 0.2%. The flu has a case fatality rate of 0.1%. It's time to move on.

    anon, An aquaintance’s son, in his late twenties, took his life yesterday. We are heartbroken for his family. No funeral. No Mass. That is sad for me. He had some emotional problems, but this whole lockdown, no friends, no work may have pushed him over the edge. Stay safe.

    • Agree: Alice
    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    I am so sorry. I will say prayers for him and his family and I will continue to hope, pray, and work towards ending this madness soon.

    To perish of depression without the comforts of home, without the sacraments, locked in a little shack of hopelessness, in a society as insane and indifferent as ours, is one of the worst things I can imagine. We have turned our world into a foretaste of Hell. The loneliness and despair that it's possible to feel as a young person today simply has no means of expression.

    We have to put a stop to this.
  167. Colonial Williamsburg would draw better if it were further north in Virginia, somewhere north of Richmond, as then it could get school field trips from the huge Washington metro area. It would be more like Old Sturbridge Village in Massachusetts right by the Connecticut border, which for generations has been a standard field trip destination for all of southern New England.
    OSV also benefits from cheaper admissions than Williamsburg, there’s even a very low rate ($3) for people with EBT or WIC cards.

  168. @Hail
    Of all the effects of the Great Hysteria Pandemic of 2020, one that an unfortunately large number of people are making is: Public transportation is an extreme health danger and so should be reduced to save lives, or something. (I am not saying you are saying so, but some are; it's not a giant logical leap).

    Given that The Scary New Coronavirus might produce an entirely unremarkable spike-in-seasonal-flu-like death toll, if public transportation suffers from this, it's yet another long-term net loss from the evil beast of CoronaPanic/CoronaHoax.

    Given that The Scary New Coronavirus might produce an entirely unremarkable spike-in-seasonal-flu-like death toll, if public transportation suffers from this, it’s yet another long-term net loss from the evil beast of CoronaPanic/CoronaHoax.

    Or we add better ventilation and filtration to stations and vehicles.

    Would likely help with existing crop of colds and flu as well as future ones.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    The hotspot pretty much stops at the boundaries of the NYC commuter belt and the suburban counties in New York and New Jersey are rich with fatal infections, which is what you'd expect if it were spread by mass transit. You're maintaining it's entirely due to aerosols?
  169. @Steve Sailer
    Cars, I imagine.

    My daughter lives in Buck County, Pa., so we have visited Philly when we visit her. Philly drivers are a world unto themselves. A drivers license, a horn and a middle finger are all you need to drive in Philly…license is optional.

    • Replies: @captflee
    I was particularly enamored of the "Wait for Green" signs at the intersections. Granted, there is a second or so when no lights show, and I'm a brisk driver by nature, but Jeeez... The weekly 500 mile commute to Filthadelphia (I kid!) I engaged in for several years on one route passed through DC, BodyMore, and a of bit Philly (as far as the Navy Yard, anyway), those three then comprising half of the top six worst driving cities in the country, with Philly being #6, so the best of that sorry lot. I USED to think the locals were bad drivers here (S.E. NC), and while certainly competitive with the Carolinians in larger burgs such as RDU or, God forbid, Charlotte, they are the merest pikers in comparison with the drivers infesting the Fredericksburg VA-Boston blob.

    That said, I found that in most other respects the inhabitants of Philadelphia are a pretty good bunch, fairly polite and friendly, more so than most blob-oids, and the driveability is a bonus, removing the necessity for mass transit and being involuntarily cheek by jowl with the canaille.

    Am assuming that Bucks is still decent. Half a lifetime ago I loved a girl who lived in Hatboro/ Warminster, so got to see a bit of the place. Should the infernal regions succumb to The Coming Ice Age I would certainly consider moving there.
    , @BigJimSportCamper
    Just like Boston.
  170. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Ah, yes, there's nothing like making a cheap buck off of nostalgia. To a pure and pristine past, as idealized and saccharine as possible. At least its authentic history, folks! And all built with perfect symmetry and proportions, just like they did in days of yore.

    Ugh, goodness gracious, and egad.

    Ah, yes, there’s nothing like making a cheap buck off of nostalgia. To a pure and pristine past, as idealized and saccharine as possible. At least its authentic history, folks! And all built with perfect symmetry and proportions, just like they did in days of yore.

    Ugh, goodness gracious, and egad.

    Dear fellow, John D Rockefeller, jr, spent vast sums of money on the restoration; he wasn’t expecting to turn a profit on the thing.

    Given the choice, I would much rather see children going to Williamsburg than wasting their youth visiting theme parks dedicated to JK Rowling’s sub-literate trash.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Yes, yes, the point is well taken, but...if you don't care much for the likes of a JK Rowling themepark, pray tell what will happen when the day comes that the Karadashians make a museum, or theme park that celebrates their extended klan and brood? What will that say about the state of society then?

    Because you do know, Katharine, that that day is coming, and that one right well soon. The magnificence of the legacy that is Kim! (or Kimye as she sometimes styles herself these days)

    huzaah and ya baby
  171. @Anonymous
    Great post by Jack D. If I criticize him when he makes off the wall unsubstantiated claims, I have to praise him when he dispenses truths, especially subtle not immediately intuitive ones. His point underscores the controversy around confederate symbols in the flags of Southern States. Many of these symbols didn't appear in these flags until immediately after WWII when Jim Crow and segregation policies came under attack (e.g. Thurmond's Dixiecrat run in 48 as a reaction to Dems 48 platform). Those who claim that those symbols have no racial connotations and are only meant to honor a Southern heritage of service and courage are dishonest.

    Those who claim that those symbols have no racial connotations and are only meant to honor a Southern heritage of service and courage are dishonest.

    You are not equipped to know what a symbol means to a man.

  172. Michigan Governor Witless, after speechifying to make clear that Xi Jinping Cough is all about race and is a great opportunity for social justice, is extending the quarantine through April 30, plus requiring stores to limit customer traffic.

  173. @Grumpy
    It's always sad when building traditions like the height limit in Philadelphia are broken. It can't really be undone.

    The most beautiful European cities respect strict height limits. The tallest building in Europe opened recently in St. Petersburg, Russia, and it looks completely and bizarrely out of place. The fairly recent skyscraper additions to the London skyline are hideous.

    Stately and spacious college campuses are easily ruined by one president who is too eager to build. It takes effort to respect limits, but they are there for a reason.

    The fairly recent skyscraper additions to the London skyline are hideous.

    London:

    Doha:

    Better a gherkin than a condom!

  174. @anonymous

    In NY, Grant’s Tomb (a monument befitting a Roman emperor) ended up in a black (and Puerto Rican) neighborhood
     
    That's not a black or puerto rican neighborhood. It's rich whites and jews along that parcel of Riverside Drive. If you head east past Broadway into Amsterdam ave, you'll be running into Puerto Ricans, but that ain't the same neighborhood.

    Grant’s Tomb sits at around 123rd St. Two blocks east of it are projects. South of it, up to around 119th St, are the nice Columbia U. apartment buildings you mention. To the north is an industrial area and it never really gets nice again. There has been some gentrification now but not much. Morningside Heights is (as the name implies) on a steep hill and it drops off on all sides. On top of the hill is upscale and the economic level drops with the altitude.

    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome


    Grant’s Tomb

     

    I always could never remember who is buried there.
    , @Anon
    If Grant's tomb ends up in a violent black ghetto, Grant deserves it. This is what he killed a lot of ordinary white Americans to create. In killing so many of the white race due to his personal ideology, he certainly echoed Hitler, who killed off a lot of the white race due to his personal ideology.
  175. @Jack D
    City Hall is the world’s tallest free standing masonry building at 548' (St. Peter's in Rome is 100' shorter). It is as tall as many skyscrapers but it's not a skyscraper. (The difference between a skyscraper and a masonry building is like the difference between a human and an insect - a skyscraper has a skeleton on the inside. The outside walls of a masonry building carry the entire load). The stone walls are 22' thick at the bottom to carry all that weight.

    At the top is a clock tower section (clock faces are bigger than Big Ben) with a cast iron skin and a hand riveted steel supports on the inside. They hadn't really figured out how to build a building out of steel so there are braces and turnbuckles going off in all directions - looking at that it's hard to imagine how you could ever make a steel building such that it would have usable interior space.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Philadelphia_City_Hall_-_tower_interior.jpg

    It took 30 years to build and was accompanied by epic corruption.

    Jack, Great photo and comment. The lattice work columns and diagonal braces (you use the term turnbuckles) were common features of early steel construction. Rivets were the fastener of choice because high tensil structural bolts were not invented. The structural steel that you show here was common in bridge construction and steel mills.

  176. @Buffalo Joe
    anon, An aquaintance's son, in his late twenties, took his life yesterday. We are heartbroken for his family. No funeral. No Mass. That is sad for me. He had some emotional problems, but this whole lockdown, no friends, no work may have pushed him over the edge. Stay safe.

    I am so sorry. I will say prayers for him and his family and I will continue to hope, pray, and work towards ending this madness soon.

    To perish of depression without the comforts of home, without the sacraments, locked in a little shack of hopelessness, in a society as insane and indifferent as ours, is one of the worst things I can imagine. We have turned our world into a foretaste of Hell. The loneliness and despair that it’s possible to feel as a young person today simply has no means of expression.

    We have to put a stop to this.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Intell, Thank you for one of the best comments I have ever read on this site.
    , @MKP
    Agreed. This is shameful. Pandering political bosses looking for ways use this to score points, while millions of young people sit on their hands. Job interviews, graduations, projects, sports, hobbies, religious worship, friendships, dating, travel ... all shut down. While our "leaders" try to embarass each other in front of their eldery supporters.
  177. @Anonymous
    Great post by Jack D. If I criticize him when he makes off the wall unsubstantiated claims, I have to praise him when he dispenses truths, especially subtle not immediately intuitive ones. His point underscores the controversy around confederate symbols in the flags of Southern States. Many of these symbols didn't appear in these flags until immediately after WWII when Jim Crow and segregation policies came under attack (e.g. Thurmond's Dixiecrat run in 48 as a reaction to Dems 48 platform). Those who claim that those symbols have no racial connotations and are only meant to honor a Southern heritage of service and courage are dishonest.

    Georgia, yes: Alabama, South Carolina, North Carolina, Florida, West Virginia, and Virginia, no. (Recall the bizarre unforced error Georgia tell into trying to accommodate enemies of their flag in 2001, they went to a cluttered mess like a Boer flag). Derb has written about the enormous and forgotten work after the Civil War to reunite the country. It wasn’t racist. The bigoted, elitist targeting of vulnerable areas by urbanites was. How would someone of Jack’s background know anything about the aesthetic sentiment he’s discussing (notice which burg he cites)? It certainly is very big and anonymous of you to talk up this action of his as fair-minded.

  178. @Jack D
    The Joos are 2% of the US population and even 30 years ago when visits to Williamsburg were at a peak, Grandpa Moishe had always come thru Ellis Island, except now its Great Grandpa Moishe. Maybe the Joos are now using their special mind control beams to prevent the goyim from visiting.

    "Visit the OTHER Williamsburg and pay your respects to the Rebbe, instead".

    And it's working. Here's a place with no shortage of visitors, a place where the residents don't cower in fear of kung flu:

    https://cdn.cms.prod.nypr.digital/images/bburgfuneral.2e16d0ba.fill-661x496.jpg

    The Joos are 2% of the US population and even 30 years ago when visits to Williamsburg were at a peak, Grandpa Moishe had always come thru Ellis Island, except now its Great Grandpa Moishe. Maybe the Joos are now using their special mind control beams to prevent the goyim from visiting.

    I realize you are doing typical Jewish Talmudic lawyering here. (And maybe you actually believe it. Who knows? Jews have an amazing ability to believe their self-serving propaganda.)

    But seriously, this–very tired–trope of yours doesn’t even rise to the level of “lame”.

    You are always propagandizing Jewish genius, vaguely implying how impoverished America would be if not for Jews coming to rescue to build the bomb or conquer polio or something.

    Yet, it is simply an undeniable fact that Jews are even far, far more over-represented in politics and especially in media–crafting narratives the nation hears and sees–than they are in any productive endeavor, science or engineering. (Where yes, they are over-represented.)

    I’d guess maybe a 1/3 or more for national media organs (i don’t mean the secretaries or janitors but who determines what gets written or writes it). And Hollyweird which seeps into everyone’s home and brain like a virus … LOL–execs, producers, directors, writers, the people who determine the content we see–it’s a Jewish enterprise!.

    Just stop your bullshit. Jews have conducted a minoritarian–majorities oppressive, evil, minorities oppressed, virtuous–propaganda war against the American gentile majority for 50+ years. Own it.

    If you don’t like it. Or wish it would have stopped by just giving special minority privilege to Jews but not to blacks or Mexicans–which is far as i can tell is your basic position–take that up with your tribe.

    But seriously cut this “mind control beams” stuff is pathetic. It’s called “the news” and “Hollywood” And yes the propaganda does work.

    • Agree: schnellandine, Mehen
    • Replies: @Jack D
    So get your own propaganda. Who's stopping you?
    , @Anonymous
    As none other than Revilo Oliver-a man who was never accused even once of philo-semitism-said himself, the problem at its core is not Jews. The problem is whites.
  179. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Downtown Philadelphia is pretty awesome. City Hall, for example, is jaw-dropping.
     
    When did you first visit, Steve?

    When I was a kid, even well into my twenties Center City wasn't a place most people went unless they worked in a few discrete industries or for the City and County itself. My great uncle Joe was a Sheriff's Deputy and transported the accused to and from Court in City Hall (before all criminal matters were relegated to a purpose made building) so he went there. But you usually just wouldn't go there for non-necessary purposes.

    Even into the early 2000s and before the effects of the urban crime wave were seen to really have abated if you were in Center City at, say, 4:45 p.m. on a weekday the various storefront shops would begin rolling the steel doors down. Except the odd field trip to the Liberty Bell or Independence Hall, my entire experience largely excluded Center City and was restricted to Northeast Philadelphia where I lived, and South Philadelphia where my extended family lived. Center City was that stuff you could see from I-95 that linked the two and which you'd only get a good look at during busy traffic on a Friday on your way down the shore.

    transported the accused to and from Court in City Hall

    IIRC, they had some kind of chain link fence cage where they would back up the vans with the prisoners on the apron around City Hall, which did not add to the aesthetics of the place.

    City Hall, when built, was (in those days of much smaller government) intended to house the ENTIRE county level government – not just the municipal administrative offices but City Council chambers and the court rooms and deed recorder and other functions as well. So it was more than just a “City Hall”.

    if you were in Center City at, say, 4:45 p.m. on a weekday the various storefront shops would begin rolling the steel doors down

    It depends on how you define “Center City” (e.g. the Rittenhouse Sq. area always remained pretty nice, likewise Society Hill) but yeah, if you were talking about say Chestnut St. east of city all it was pretty grim. The shops, even when they were open, aside from fast food places catering to the lunchtime trade, were mostly in the nature of wig shops and stores selling ghetto attire and disreputable electronic stores and other shady businesses catering to a largely black trade. Or else they were older businesses that were in the twilight of their existence – typewriter repair shops and such. It was really a pretty grim and depressing scene.

  180. @Downstream from Culture
    OT. What do you think about Robert Christgau, Steve? I don't think you've ever written about him.

    OT. What do you think about Robert Christgau, Steve? I don’t think you’ve ever written about him.

    Xgau (as they call him) is a fairly useful guide up through about the 80s, though not without his many blind-spots like a lot of critics. But the rise of hiphop — which as a doctrinaire ultra-Progressive he of course loves — washed away whatever critical acumen the guy had left.

    Also, his rating system simply doesn’t work across genres and long time periods. You end up with situations where an album like Sandinista! gets an A-, which might have made some sense in 1981 (though in retrospect I think it’s even better than London Calling), and then something like Britney Spears’ Glory is also an A-. And maybe that makes sense in 2016 and in pop vs. rock. But you can’t simply say they are both A- records and have it make any kind of sense.

    He’s an interesting long-form writer, and has done some really good work in that regard. But politically he’s so lunatic that you have to ignore it. He seriously believes that Trump has ushered in Fascism in America, and he wrote a long piece pre-election extolling the many virtues of Hillary. And he is a standard issue anti-white white and anti-male male. In his review of The River, he noted that Springsteen was “too white and too male, though he’s decent enough to wish he weren’t,” which is actually a good catch of the miserable race- and class-traitor Springsteen became, but Christgau means it as a compliment. There are hundreds of such examples.

    Anyway, I know way too much about this topic.

  181. @AnotherDad

    The Joos are 2% of the US population and even 30 years ago when visits to Williamsburg were at a peak, Grandpa Moishe had always come thru Ellis Island, except now its Great Grandpa Moishe. Maybe the Joos are now using their special mind control beams to prevent the goyim from visiting.
     
    I realize you are doing typical Jewish Talmudic lawyering here. (And maybe you actually believe it. Who knows? Jews have an amazing ability to believe their self-serving propaganda.)

    But seriously, this--very tired--trope of yours doesn't even rise to the level of "lame".

    You are always propagandizing Jewish genius, vaguely implying how impoverished America would be if not for Jews coming to rescue to build the bomb or conquer polio or something.

    Yet, it is simply an undeniable fact that Jews are even far, far more over-represented in politics and especially in media--crafting narratives the nation hears and sees--than they are in any productive endeavor, science or engineering. (Where yes, they are over-represented.)

    I'd guess maybe a 1/3 or more for national media organs (i don't mean the secretaries or janitors but who determines what gets written or writes it). And Hollyweird which seeps into everyone's home and brain like a virus ... LOL--execs, producers, directors, writers, the people who determine the content we see--it's a Jewish enterprise!.

    Just stop your bullshit. Jews have conducted a minoritarian--majorities oppressive, evil, minorities oppressed, virtuous--propaganda war against the American gentile majority for 50+ years. Own it.

    If you don't like it. Or wish it would have stopped by just giving special minority privilege to Jews but not to blacks or Mexicans--which is far as i can tell is your basic position--take that up with your tribe.

    But seriously cut this "mind control beams" stuff is pathetic. It's called "the news" and "Hollywood" And yes the propaganda does work.

    So get your own propaganda. Who’s stopping you?

    • Replies: @AnotherDad

    So get your own propaganda. Who’s stopping you?
     
    Agreed. A straight up response.

    Whites--and the people of any nation--need media/propaganda that is on the side of the nation not against it.

    As to who is stopping it...

    No question, whites--man per man--don't have the verbal IQ, aren't as good at propaganda as Jews. And Jews have something between a veto and a stranglehold on existing and powerful American media.

    And, of course, Jews and their gentile SJW fellow travelers, do work to deplatform anyone who dissents from Jewish minoritarianism. So don't pretend there is no "who" that's trying to stop nationalists.

    But yeah. If American patriots and generally patriots of Western Civilization don't get our shit together, including getting our own--actually true--narrative out there ... America and Western Civilization will simple sink under the minoritarian/immigrationist tide.

    , @BenKenobi
    The height of chutzpah yet again. Anyone to the right of Obama isn't even allowed to have a Twitter account anymore, so effective is our propaganda.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    They are, that's who.
  182. Philadelphia has less density and the people here are less social.

  183. @Anonymous
    If "colonial" Williamsburg dies its because it sucks ass.

    I had to go there on field trips. Actors churning butter and other nonsense.

    If “colonial” Williamsburg dies its because it sucks ass.

    I had to go there on field trips. Actors churning butter and other nonsense.

    I will say this comment gets at something quite real.

    I think the biggest thing here is the reigning minoritarian ideology basically pissing all over the actually American founding and founding stock as evil slave holding, native killing oppressors, in favor of their “nation of immigrants” narrative which gives Jews pride of place. And then immigration itself creating a population that actually is not descended from the founders.

    Whites really have to chose a counter narrative where their ancestors–or their neighbor’s ancestors–founding work actually matters.

    But the other aspect is certainly what you say. To a “modern” brain pickled in Hollyweird action and constantly checking your cell phone feed … all these old buildings and “history stuff” is … BORING.

    • Replies: @AnonAnon

    To a “modern” brain pickled in Hollyweird action and constantly checking your cell phone feed … all these old buildings and “history stuff” is … BORING.
     
    Nah. I got dragged to a lot of eastern historical sites - Fort Stanwix, Fort Ticonderoga, Sturbridge Village, etc. as a kid in the 70s. They were boring to me, too. It’s only as an adult you really appreciate architecture and history unless there’s some kid attention-grabber like a ride on a steam train or something like the Arms and Armor collection at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Some old lady in a costume calling you mistress and showing you how candles are made is dull stuff to a ten year old.
  184. @Steve Sailer
    Downtown Philadelphia is pretty awesome. City Hall, for example, is jaw-dropping.

    The lack of central air, and thus A/C units in every window, takes away from the mystique up close.

  185. @syonredux

    Ah, yes, there’s nothing like making a cheap buck off of nostalgia. To a pure and pristine past, as idealized and saccharine as possible. At least its authentic history, folks! And all built with perfect symmetry and proportions, just like they did in days of yore.

    Ugh, goodness gracious, and egad.
     
    Dear fellow, John D Rockefeller, jr, spent vast sums of money on the restoration; he wasn't expecting to turn a profit on the thing.


    Given the choice, I would much rather see children going to Williamsburg than wasting their youth visiting theme parks dedicated to JK Rowling's sub-literate trash.

    Yes, yes, the point is well taken, but…if you don’t care much for the likes of a JK Rowling themepark, pray tell what will happen when the day comes that the Karadashians make a museum, or theme park that celebrates their extended klan and brood? What will that say about the state of society then?

    Because you do know, Katharine, that that day is coming, and that one right well soon. The magnificence of the legacy that is Kim! (or Kimye as she sometimes styles herself these days)

    huzaah and ya baby

  186. @Jack D
    So get your own propaganda. Who's stopping you?

    So get your own propaganda. Who’s stopping you?

    Agreed. A straight up response.

    Whites–and the people of any nation–need media/propaganda that is on the side of the nation not against it.

    As to who is stopping it…

    No question, whites–man per man–don’t have the verbal IQ, aren’t as good at propaganda as Jews. And Jews have something between a veto and a stranglehold on existing and powerful American media.

    And, of course, Jews and their gentile SJW fellow travelers, do work to deplatform anyone who dissents from Jewish minoritarianism. So don’t pretend there is no “who” that’s trying to stop nationalists.

    But yeah. If American patriots and generally patriots of Western Civilization don’t get our shit together, including getting our own–actually true–narrative out there … America and Western Civilization will simple sink under the minoritarian/immigrationist tide.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican

    No question, whites–man per man–don’t have the verbal IQ, aren’t as good at propaganda as Jews.
     
    LOL. Speak for yourself, AD. Taunt-o sez: “Who’s weak, Emo Sobby?”

    But yeah. If American patriots and generally patriots of Western Civilization don’t get our shit together, including getting our own–actually true–narrative out there …
     
    Yes, and that’s happening in fits and starts. The Overton in recent years been pushed right in mainstream American discourse. The internet/social media has (incidentally) been a big help with this. But backing it up there has to be enough common underlying instinct and will to get real bloody if need be. It’s happened before, and it can happen again. I would rather it doesn’t, but some people never learn: The ride never ends.

    E.g., check out this Tribesman (screen right, foreground) and accomplices almost blundering into the Boogaloo:

    https://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1229418227656282113

    https://twitter.com/AndrewQuackson/status/1229574723996180480

    In short: Plaintive complaining to/about autistic merchants is lame.

    For now, in this forum, mordant mockery is best. ;)
  187. @Jack D
    Grant's Tomb sits at around 123rd St. Two blocks east of it are projects. South of it, up to around 119th St, are the nice Columbia U. apartment buildings you mention. To the north is an industrial area and it never really gets nice again. There has been some gentrification now but not much. Morningside Heights is (as the name implies) on a steep hill and it drops off on all sides. On top of the hill is upscale and the economic level drops with the altitude.

    Grant’s Tomb

    I always could never remember who is buried there.

  188. @Jack D

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto.
     
    I assume you haven't been to Philadelphia in many decades, if ever? Philly certainly does have a large black population but it's not like Detroit at all. It has a white mayor. It has gentrified areas, major universities and hospitals, a downtown business district, museums and other tourist attractions, a (formerly) thriving restaurant and bar scene, newly built skyscrapers and residential new construction. It's main train station is (was) heavily used and is not an abandoned ruin like Detroit's. It's more like Chicago than Detroit.

    “Philly has a white mayor”. Now that’s funny! Mayor Jim Kenney panders to Blacks more than Joe Biden! Mayor Kenney is a hard-core Leftist, much like Mayor de Blasio. Philly has more murders than New York, and who does Mayor Kenney blame? Racism & President Trump.

  189. @Jack D
    The Holocaust Museum is well placed in our capital city because it serves a reminder of what can happen if we discard our Constitutional framework and allow ourselves to be ruled by decree. Even if we are undergoing some national crisis, allowing our elected leaders to seize unlimited power is never a good idea - it can lead to great tragedy. Leaders who have tasted absolute power are like tigers who have tasted human blood - they will never again be content with anything less and the only "cure" is to destroy them. Right now is a particularly good time to be reminded that we should never let our precious freedoms be taken away from us - our very lives may depend on it someday. Maybe at first you don't care, because YOUR job has not been taken away, YOU are not the one who has been arrested or fined. Just wait. Your turn will come.

    The Holocaust Museum is not there for the Jews. Jews have plenty of reminders about the Holocaust and don't need to visit Washington to know what happened. It's there for everyone else. Disregard its lessons at your peril. Now that white people are about to become a minority in America, this means YOU. You think, "I am no middle man minority. I am of the Founding Stock in my own great nation. I am the man with the riding crop and the Luger, not the poor shnook in the cattle car. This story means nothing to me." You are wrong.

    • Chutzpah: BenKenobi

    • LOL: Charon
  190. @Reg Cæsar

    Center City had a rather different character in those days.
     
    Even now Philadelphia is the rare big city in which the tallest buildings have pointy tops. New buildings.

    https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/statue-ben-franklin-looks-over-260nw-1229981830.jpg


    There are only a few cities remaining with that sort of restriction. Washington, DC is one, and, on a smaller scale, Madison, WI. It always seems rather strange to see big cities without any real skyscrapers.
     
    A restriction on high-demand land has a distinctive look, whether in Washington or Barcelona. Every lot is built to the limit, and you get miles of blocky buildings with flat roofs.

    https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_480w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2016/03/15/Local/Images/vultures.jpg?uuid=9GDj1OrUEeWm8yHM28X3Tg

    https://cdn8.dissolve.com/p/D246_33_086/D246_33_086_1200.jpg

    One interesting idea I read* was that instead of restricting buildings’ heights, restricting buildings’ number of floors would still allow for an interesting skyline. IIRC, a restriction of that type is said to be what spurred the invention of the Mansard roof.

    *I think it might have been from @wrathofgnon on twitter.

  191. @Anonymous
    If "colonial" Williamsburg dies its because it sucks ass.

    I had to go there on field trips. Actors churning butter and other nonsense.

    It all depends on your degree of fondness for Georgian architecture……For HP Lovecraft (a true aficionado), it was a sublunary approximation of paradise:

    • Replies: @peterike
    There's something very confident, safe and comforting about Georgian architecture. It shows a society that's secure, proud yet humble before God, ready to sacrifice for the common good and unafraid.

    But I'd like bigger windows.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Now, how come you can post these kinds of pictures but have not bothered to post the other kind of pictures of which you are known for.

    What gives, Katharine. What gives? Comfort during a storm, and all that sort of thing.
    , @Kylie
    Yes, to me Georgian architecture is heaven on earth.
  192. anon[929] • Disclaimer says:

    Reposted from another comment thread, because IMO this is important.

    Another pattern is emerging: countries where the BCG vaccine is given to protect against tuberculosis appear to be showing lower rates of COVID-19 spread and possibly lower number of deaths.

    https://www.rt.com/news/485206-tb-vaccine-covid-19/

    Here’s a reference from iSteve’s home town:
    https://ktla.com/news/coronavirus/heres-how-a-100-year-old-vaccine-for-tuberculosis-could-help-fight-covid-19/

    BCG is widely used, including in Mexico.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3062527/

    The Dutch and Germans are already experimenting with the BCG vaccine as a preventative / treatment for COVID – 19.

  193. @Jack D

    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be ‘inclusive’ with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one’s interested any more.
     
    For most of the 19th century, Americans were not at all interested in historic buildings. They were just OLD buildings to them and they had no qualms about knocking them down to build something new and better. You can count on the fingers of 1 hand the number of pre-Revolutionary buildings in Manhattan. Williamsburg survived because it was a backwater and no one was interested in building anything new there so they let the colonial buildings just molder without bothering to knock them down. For almost a century, the Levy family pleaded with the US Government to take over Monticello and the government turned them down over and over (despite being offered the place for free). Taking care of old buildings in perpetuity was not the business of government.

    So what changed? A big impetus was that as America was being overwhelmed by the last great wave of immigration, Founding Stock Americans wanted to stake a claim for themselves that they were better than New Americans because their ancestors got here first and were the ones responsible for the great system that we have. Historic buildings were tangible proof of their claim and needed to be preserved. The preservation of Williamsburg dates only to the 1920s.

    And of course they were right - as the new generation of Americans is half white, visits to Williamsburg have fallen by half. If you are a Latino, what Tomas Yefferson was doing in 1776 is of no great concern to you. Latinos don't really care about history or other book larnin' type stuff in general, let alone wasting their time walking thru some dusty old building where the white guys in wigs used to debate.

    There are a large number of pre-Revolutionary War buildings in Charleston, South Carolina, which certainly wasn’t a backwater for the first half of the 19th Century. (And of course many other places.) Your use of Manhattan as representative of overall American views towards history or historic buildings is simply false. Perhaps — to be clear — the type of people who inhabited (and inhabit) Manhattan don’t give a shit about American history, but other Americans, living elsewhere, do, and always have. But pre-Revolutionary War history is made up of regional history, so it’s not surprising at all that people in 19th Century South Carolina, or Vermont, or New York, felt it unnecessary to renovate Jamestown or the Middle Plantation, which was the responsibility of Virginians. And of course when Mount Vernon stopped being an operational plantation in the 1850s, it was shortly put under preservation (by a private group) and opened to the public. All decades and decades before Ellis Island opened.

    So no, the American story is certainly not about you, not all about immigrants, or Americans reactions to immigrants. We have our own proud history as colonists and settlers.

    • Agree: Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    • Replies: @Alice
    I agree, but I think the regionalism issues matter. I've lived in many places in the US and large swaths of the country have cities and towns happy to recall their citizens' pre-US heritage. My family on mom's side are first generation immigrants as a result of WW2, ethnic Europeans arriving as DPs. Dad's family from the potato famine. Both sides co existed in Chicago, which up until the mid 60s, still saw itself in ethnic terms, trying to maintain ethnic identity while achieving the American dream to some extent. Polish American clubs, Lithuanian summer camps, Irish dancing, Czech sokols, German language churches all existed. Minneapolis/St. Paul is similar still, with people up until the last few years comfortable identifying with their forefathers as immigrants. The Swedish american Institute is highly regarded, and hasn't moved despite the neighborhood having turned. Local customs still harken to those societies because for some still living, they knew FarFar and MorMor came from overseas. 1850 just isn't that long ago.

    But the South has had 200 MORE years to forget where they came from, to not need to hold onto some nostalgia. They have been Americans 100 years more than the great Midwest cities have existed, but they have been North Carolininas, Georgians, Virginians for another 100 before that. They didn't build modern monuments to their own heritage like recent immigrants have because it never occurred to them there was a heritage to commemorate or celebrate. Why build a history to your normal existence? They commemorated in the normal way--naming the roads, the towns, etc. But their historical way of life was already American, so what needed preserving?

    Now, speaking as a Yankee, there's another reason, which is now, its too late. They can't remember anything without remembering slavery, and there's only one allowed narrative for that, and it's a shameful one, so they skip over that entirely. They're not allowed. So they are towns without history because like Williamsburg and Mount Vernon, they aren't allowed to tell it aloud. But it's there for you to find if you look.
  194. @Jack D

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto.
     
    I assume you haven't been to Philadelphia in many decades, if ever? Philly certainly does have a large black population but it's not like Detroit at all. It has a white mayor. It has gentrified areas, major universities and hospitals, a downtown business district, museums and other tourist attractions, a (formerly) thriving restaurant and bar scene, newly built skyscrapers and residential new construction. It's main train station is (was) heavily used and is not an abandoned ruin like Detroit's. It's more like Chicago than Detroit.

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto.

    I assume you haven’t been to Philadelphia in many decades, if ever?

    Everything Whiskey knows about Philly, he learned from Harrison Ford’s “Witness” and the Rocky movies.

  195. @Buffalo Joe
    My daughter lives in Buck County, Pa., so we have visited Philly when we visit her. Philly drivers are a world unto themselves. A drivers license, a horn and a middle finger are all you need to drive in Philly...license is optional.

    I was particularly enamored of the “Wait for Green” signs at the intersections. Granted, there is a second or so when no lights show, and I’m a brisk driver by nature, but Jeeez… The weekly 500 mile commute to Filthadelphia (I kid!) I engaged in for several years on one route passed through DC, BodyMore, and a of bit Philly (as far as the Navy Yard, anyway), those three then comprising half of the top six worst driving cities in the country, with Philly being #6, so the best of that sorry lot. I USED to think the locals were bad drivers here (S.E. NC), and while certainly competitive with the Carolinians in larger burgs such as RDU or, God forbid, Charlotte, they are the merest pikers in comparison with the drivers infesting the Fredericksburg VA-Boston blob.

    That said, I found that in most other respects the inhabitants of Philadelphia are a pretty good bunch, fairly polite and friendly, more so than most blob-oids, and the driveability is a bonus, removing the necessity for mass transit and being involuntarily cheek by jowl with the canaille.

    Am assuming that Bucks is still decent. Half a lifetime ago I loved a girl who lived in Hatboro/ Warminster, so got to see a bit of the place. Should the infernal regions succumb to The Coming Ice Age I would certainly consider moving there.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    Capt, Bucks County is Big Bucks County but surprisingly they had a County Fair there and quite agricultural. My son-in-law and a lot of other commuters take the train to Manhattan. My wife and I drive around and gawk at the estates. Move there if you can. Just minutes to Princeton, a bit further to Philly.
  196. @Coemgen

    Linda Tripp, the career civil servant who ignited the impeachment of President Bill Clinton by tape-recording his mistress, has died. She was 70.

    Cause of death? Not listed.
     
    an opportunistic infection? HRC-20?

    It took HRC a good while to get around to Linda, but we have to remember she has a very long list.

    • Agree: Coemgen
  197. @Anon
    Eras in history go through fads in which they are rediscovered. The Colonial era just isn't in vogue at the moment. Right now, it's Downtown Abbey-era Britain. When Ken Burns did his Civil War series on TV some years back, the Civil War era was all the rage, though that's declined quite a bit. It would give Williamsburg a boom if someone created a Colonial era TV series--but without all the PC nonsense.

    Anyway, I've been to Williamsburg, but wasn't very impressed by it. I thought the recreation of Louisbourg in Canada was much better. It's even larger than Williamsburg, and a lot more grand and imposing.

    The 150th anniversary of Gettysburg was a damp squib. I expect the 75th anniversaries of the major events in WWII will be the same. It’s not our country anymore.

  198. @syonredux
    It all depends on your degree of fondness for Georgian architecture......For HP Lovecraft (a true aficionado), it was a sublunary approximation of paradise:


    https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7156/6544604175_3583a460ec_b.jpg


    http://s3.amazonaws.com/mtv-main-assets/files/resources/large_house-of-burgesses-677.jpg

    https://jimmellen.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/small-capital-picture.jpg

    https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/colonial-williamsburg-court-house-todd-hostetter.jpg

    There’s something very confident, safe and comforting about Georgian architecture. It shows a society that’s secure, proud yet humble before God, ready to sacrifice for the common good and unafraid.

    But I’d like bigger windows.

  199. Perhaps big tight-knit multi-generational families (like Hasidic Jews in New York and African-Americans in Louisiana) are something to notice?

    According to the New York Times: “As of Wednesday night, the virus had killed 20 people on the [Navajo Nation] reservation, compared with 16 in the entire state of New Mexico, which has a population thirteen times larger.”

    The Navajo Nation is the opposite of densely populated with 150,000 people on 27,000 square miles, however, they live in homes with several generations under one roof.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/09/us/coronavirus-navajo-nation.html?searchResultPosition=1

  200. Hail says: • Website
    @epebble
    Can the good doctor cite any other epidemic where healthcare workers, policemen, fire department workers, bus drivers, cruise ship customers, grocery workers etc., fall dead like flies? The fear is not over 70+ dying, it is the rather large number of < 60 dying.

    The fear is…the rather large number of < 60 dying.

    I don’t know where you heard that, epebble, but it’s probably a case of anecdote trumping data.

    Total mortality data just released today through 2020 Week 14 (ending April 5):

    Overall excess mortality can be seen by the total area under the the observed-death curve(s) and above the baseline [….]

    Comparison with past years. The 2019-20 flu season, in which excess mortality peaked in March instead of the more-usual January or Feburary, vs. the 2016-17, 2017-18, 2018-19 flu seasons:

    Milder in each case for age 15-to-65s;

    – No difference for children under age 15;

    – For over-65s, it’s looking like it will equal 2016-17.

    Yes, fewer under-65 have died in this flu season than in any of the recent previous flu seasons. With the epidemic now well past peak and the braver EU countries starting down the path towards re-opening, there is not going to be any unforeseen death spike among under-65s associated with this epidemic.

    Remember, Corona was/is marketed as a “Mass Killer Apocalypse Virus, like all those movies warned about; easily 25x, probably at least 50x, maybe 100x worse than a usual flu spike!”

    We were lied to.

  201. @Jack D
    Grant's Tomb sits at around 123rd St. Two blocks east of it are projects. South of it, up to around 119th St, are the nice Columbia U. apartment buildings you mention. To the north is an industrial area and it never really gets nice again. There has been some gentrification now but not much. Morningside Heights is (as the name implies) on a steep hill and it drops off on all sides. On top of the hill is upscale and the economic level drops with the altitude.

    If Grant’s tomb ends up in a violent black ghetto, Grant deserves it. This is what he killed a lot of ordinary white Americans to create. In killing so many of the white race due to his personal ideology, he certainly echoed Hitler, who killed off a lot of the white race due to his personal ideology.

  202. anonymous[117] • Disclaimer says:
    @Neuday
    The movie Manhattan was made in 1979. America was still a nation back then, unaware of the consequences of letting people like Woody Allen influence our culture.

    Heh. That’s the year (or was it 1980?) my wife and I, both New Yorkers, saw the film in a theater in Denton, Texas. We were the only ones laughing at the apartment jokes.

  203. @Jack D
    So get your own propaganda. Who's stopping you?

    The height of chutzpah yet again. Anyone to the right of Obama isn’t even allowed to have a Twitter account anymore, so effective is our propaganda.

  204. @Jack D
    So get your own propaganda. Who's stopping you?

    They are, that’s who.

  205. @Jack D
    The Holocaust Museum is well placed in our capital city because it serves a reminder of what can happen if we discard our Constitutional framework and allow ourselves to be ruled by decree. Even if we are undergoing some national crisis, allowing our elected leaders to seize unlimited power is never a good idea - it can lead to great tragedy. Leaders who have tasted absolute power are like tigers who have tasted human blood - they will never again be content with anything less and the only "cure" is to destroy them. Right now is a particularly good time to be reminded that we should never let our precious freedoms be taken away from us - our very lives may depend on it someday. Maybe at first you don't care, because YOUR job has not been taken away, YOU are not the one who has been arrested or fined. Just wait. Your turn will come.

    The Holocaust Museum is not there for the Jews. Jews have plenty of reminders about the Holocaust and don't need to visit Washington to know what happened. It's there for everyone else. Disregard its lessons at your peril. Now that white people are about to become a minority in America, this means YOU. You think, "I am no middle man minority. I am of the Founding Stock in my own great nation. I am the man with the riding crop and the Luger, not the poor shnook in the cattle car. This story means nothing to me." You are wrong.

    “I am no middle man minority. I am of the Founding Stock in my own great nation. I am the man with the riding crop and the Luger, not the poor shnook in the cattle car. This story means nothing to me.”

    Jack D, you sound like a pretty smart guy, but you’re incredibly tone-deaf. You’re as tone-deaf as the rich dentist in my small town who’s building a Holocaust memorial so they can bus all the schoolkids through it.

    Your comment, and all these museums and memorials, sound an awful lot like accusations. But it’s nothing new. People are getting to the point where they assume Great-Uncle Pete who was in the Army in WWII must have been over there helping the Nazis, not killing them, because why else do we have to be told over and over and over how wrong the Holocaust was?

  206. @Whiskey
    NYC has a lot more Asians. Including people who presumably traveled from Wu Flu central, "Bat City" Wuhan to NYC.

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto. It is what Detroit aspired to be but could not become, the true Wakanda. BLACK in all senses of the word. No Asian would go there and expect to make it out alive. Its a WorldStarHipHop city.

    Its like Africa. Chinese there don't associate with Africans so they might as well be on another planet.

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto…

    Country began there. So did Grace Kelly, a scant ninety years ago.

    Advance of civilization depends – totally – on who’s doing the advancing.

  207. @syonredux
    It all depends on your degree of fondness for Georgian architecture......For HP Lovecraft (a true aficionado), it was a sublunary approximation of paradise:


    https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7156/6544604175_3583a460ec_b.jpg


    http://s3.amazonaws.com/mtv-main-assets/files/resources/large_house-of-burgesses-677.jpg

    https://jimmellen.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/small-capital-picture.jpg

    https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/colonial-williamsburg-court-house-todd-hostetter.jpg

    Now, how come you can post these kinds of pictures but have not bothered to post the other kind of pictures of which you are known for.

    What gives, Katharine. What gives? Comfort during a storm, and all that sort of thing.

  208. SNOW TO BRAMPTON

    Socialism-benighted milk-bagging Canuck state thugs took a break from their botched marijuana legalization/third world style monopoly* to seize 84 POUNDS OF COKE (people are doing coke? now? why?) valued at five million dollars (or nearly three hundred cans of luxury soup, at pre-quarantine prices) from a truck driven by two Canadian men, which had crossed Matty Majnuwn’s Ambassador Bridge. Now, these are law-flouting Canadian truckers, but there’s no need to stereotype —

    Sukdeep Singh, 31, of Brampton, and Inderjeet Singh, 26, of Lindsay, have both been charged with importation of a controlled substance and possession of a controlled substance for the purpose of trafficking.

    https://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/truckers-arrested-after-38-kilos-suspected-cocaine-seized-at-ambassador-bridge/

    [MORE]

    *Canada “legalized” pot, but Canada-style, handing limited concessions to mainly cops who overcharge (heh), with the result that nobody buys pot legally in Canada after Canada legalized pot.

  209. @Alice
    I was at CW two Novembers ago. There were literally 3-4k kids there on field trips each day (I counted the buses.) But the Thomas Jefferson talk done by the brilliant TJ reenactor Bill Barker was attended by exactly 3 children, my 3, all homeschooled.

    The schools refused to bring their students, elementary, middle, or high school, to an open forum where they could ask Thomas Jefferson anything. (mine asked about code wheels and secret messages... not exactly political science..sigh)

    It was so depressing. It wasn't just that the convincing of our children that the Founders were evil and the founding illegitimate has been complete. No, because they didn't even denouce TJ or heckle his ideas. No, we have been overcome by teachers and students too stupid to even know there were ideas related to the Founding, and none of them have any interest in discussing ideas at all. This discussion of ideas was once known as thinking.

    Thank you, ma’m, for giving your offspring what I am sure is a far superior education to that which the vast majority receives, as evidenced by your observations of Colonial Williamsburg.

    Being in part descended from the Jamestown diaspora, and growing up within relatively easy driving distance, I was a bit of a frequent visitor. As the father of a curious and energetic three year old and a then resident of James City County (thus eligible for free or heavily discounted admission to various historical sites) we spent a lot of time in that millenial year at CW.

    One thing that struck me over the years, commencing about 1959, was the bit that they used to do in the Assembly Building where they would have all stand, then commence reading out the requirements for voting, having those unqualified sit as their disqualifying condition (age, sex, value property owned, etc.) was called, until only a precious few remained. Over the years, I noticed that this little cohort grew steadily smaller. The last time, I was “it”, the others having failed to surmount the C of E barrier, and I was then still an Episcopalian. How this tracks with post ’65 immigration I have thoughts probably best unsaid.

    Some of the re-enactors at CW are indeed very good. I used to rather enjoy their Patrick Henry, anti-federalist that I am.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Some of the re-enactors at CW are indeed very good. I used to rather enjoy their Patrick Henry, anti-federalist that I am.
     
    Does anyone reënact John Lansing and Robert Yates today? Or even Alexander Hamilton's returning to the Constitutional Convention to discover the rest of his delegation had already stormed out?

    https://teachingamericanhistory.org/static/convention/delegates/lansing.html

    https://teachingamericanhistory.org/static/convention/delegates/yates.html

    https://www.nyhistory.org/web/crossroads/gallery/all/letter_to_clinton_nyjournal_jan14_1788.html


    Oh, wait-- a possible reënactment from deep in the North Woods:


    https://archive.csac.history.wisc.edu › ...PDF
    A Readers Theater–Based on a Letter of Robert Yates and John Lansing to Governor George Clinton Explaining their Early Departure
    (PDF)
  210. @Whiskey
    NYC has a lot more Asians. Including people who presumably traveled from Wu Flu central, "Bat City" Wuhan to NYC.

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto. It is what Detroit aspired to be but could not become, the true Wakanda. BLACK in all senses of the word. No Asian would go there and expect to make it out alive. Its a WorldStarHipHop city.

    Its like Africa. Chinese there don't associate with Africans so they might as well be on another planet.
  211. @Daniel Williams
    I bet it’s the subway. I bet that’s how it spread, with low-paid nursing home attendees and nurses picking it up there and spreading it to the olds they’re in charge of.

    The NYC subway is unlike any other mass transit system in the United States. The Philly thing is like the DC metro or Trimet in Portland or whatever—the answer to a riddle, not serious everyday transportation for a huge portion of a world-class city’s population.

    New York subways are busier, grosser, and better utilized than anything in Philadelphia. They go more places more often, and link more people. I have a hard time imagining a better way to spread a respiratory infection.

    Many also speculated that it was the elevators, which makes sense to me. Even if you’re a yuppie that can work from home you still need to take the elevator for your weekly run to Trader Joe’s. Stagnant air and buttons could be sufficient for transmission.

    • Replies: @Daniel Williams
    Makes sense. The elevators in big office buildings are used by thousands of people a day, all of whom must touch the same buttons to get anywhere.
  212. Hail says: • Website
    @415 reasons
    If there are only a large seasonal flu’s worth of deaths in the immediate stages of this crisis it will only be because of the massive interventions we’ve made and the tremendous cost we’ve paid to avoid it being far worse. Were the overflowing ICUs in Italy, NYC, Spain, Wuhan, etc. not sufficient evidence to infer what happens if you let it rip?

    Many experts are now saying that the shutdowns came too late to have a real effect, as they tended to come after the epidemics peaked. Deaths, diagnoses, and infections all lag one another by a considerable degree.

    In other words, the shutdowns were at least partly political theater. This also applies to the China.

    Anyway, we have a natural experiment ongoing in Sweden. Look to Sweden. No Swedish mass dieoff is an argument against the CoronaPanic.

    • Agree: AnonAnon
  213. @Reg Cæsar

    Phillie doesn’t see much tourism, so it’s farther behind the curve.
     
    This alone is a disgrace. Americans aren't very American, are we? Philadelphia should be the first big city we visit. Long before NYC, let alone DC or Orlando.


    Independence National Park Is an Embarrassing Mess. Why Doesn’t Anyone Care?


    https://www.visitphilly.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Behind-Independence-Hall-J-Fusco-2200VP.jpg

    I went to Independence Hall maybe 6 years ago. Immediately after, about 2-3 blocks away, I ran into a large mob of Black teens in a fist fight (known to the media simply as “teens”). I lived in DC for three years but never saw that near the Mall.

    The rest of Philly didn’t make a great impression either.

  214. @Anonymous
    Well aware of that agreement and how The Rouse Corp pushed to build big buildings West of City Hall.

    PFSF isn’t really a big building by any modern skyscraper standard. So it is correct to say that not until the late 1980s did Philly have its modern skyline that looked anything higher than Des Moines or Tulsa.

    In Des Moines in the early to mid ’70s the new 20 story Ruan Center developed by the family which owned Ruan Trucking Co. was the tallest in Des Moines and a big deal. One of their kids was a neighbor of mine in the dorm at Iowa State.

  215. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    While all these stated things are true, I assume you're overlooking a major stat: Violent crime, of which Philadelphia leads PA and has for several decades. For the longest time, including into the 2010's it was considered a murder capital. Not anywhere near on the level of Detroit, but still a significant part of the city's makeup. And like Detroit, Phily remains majority black. Blacks are also becoming a major stat within COVID-19 infections.

    For the small amount of land, Philly is also densely populated, hence the reason it has a high COVID-19 infection rate. If it weren't for Philly's numbers (as well as the counties nearby), PA would not have a high COVID-19 total infection number.

    And like Detroit, Phily remains majority black.

    45% each white and black, 10% all others (Hispanic & Asian.)

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    According to most recent US census, the racial composition of Detroit was:

    Black or African American: 78.64%
    White: 14.55%
    Other race: 2.92.
    Etc. etc.

    Detroit is majority black. Clearly. By every metric. Come on.

    According to the most recent US census, the racial composition of Philadelphia was:
    Black or African American: 42.27%
    White: 41.19%
    Asian: 7.15%
    Other race: 5.94%
    Two or more races: 3.03%

    And remember, that was most recent census, (2010). If Philly was majority black then, its clearly so right now and the 2020 Census will bear this out. Would be a safe estimate that Philly is currently around 45% black and 35-38% white, with the number continually decreasing with each passing decade.

    After all, why would any sensible white stay in the city if they can live in the suburbs?

    Come on.

  216. @Anonymous Jew
    Many also speculated that it was the elevators, which makes sense to me. Even if you’re a yuppie that can work from home you still need to take the elevator for your weekly run to Trader Joe’s. Stagnant air and buttons could be sufficient for transmission.

    Makes sense. The elevators in big office buildings are used by thousands of people a day, all of whom must touch the same buttons to get anywhere.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Replace elevators buttons with voice recognition?
  217. @Jonathan Mason

    Cause of death? Not listed.
     
    She choked on her own bile.

    She choked on her own bile.

    Very liberal-minded of you, Jonathan. It is obvious you are a great humanitarian and true Christian.

  218. Anonymous[540] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr McKenna
    Wow, David Cole's even more on point. Linking just FYI.


    If the CCP vanished tomorrow, the wet markets would still be there in China, along with the seeds of the next, worse SARS and COVID. And yes, U.S. officials on all sides bungled the COVID response; no one is without error in this catastrophe. But if Trump, Pence, Pelosi, Schumer, and Cuomo vanished tomorrow, the wet markets would still be there in China, along with the seeds of the next, worse SARS and COVID.

    From this point on, there can be nothing that takes priority over shutting down the Chinese exotic-animal trade and wet markets. Nothing.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/wuhan-derangement-syndrome/
     

    “Wet market” is a broad category that refers to stores or markets that sell fresh produce and food, as opposed to “dry markets”, which sell dry goods and packaged food. Farmer’s markets in the US would be considered “wet markets”. Fruit and vegetable stands would be a “wet market”.

    Most wet markets in China sell produce and pork and chicken. Wet markets are not the same thing as exotic meat or wildlife markets.

  219. @Elli
    It is possible that the virus can in some people, cause the heart attack or stroke, either by a direct attack on the lining of the blood vessels, or by severe hypoxia, or by iron toxicity.

    The autopsy would have to be thorough and detailed. You cannot just say, the lungs are not too bad, but here is a dead area in the heart, so MI and not Covid 19.

    Seems like using a rare instance as a rationalization, to me.

  220. I wonder how the % of unclaimed bodies will differ between New York City and other places.

    New York City will bury unclaimed bodies on a remote island after 14 days because coronavirus deaths are overwhelming morgues
    [Business Insider]

    https://news.yahoo.com/york-city-bury-bodies-remote-182713446.html

  221. @Daniel Williams
    Makes sense. The elevators in big office buildings are used by thousands of people a day, all of whom must touch the same buttons to get anywhere.

    Replace elevators buttons with voice recognition?

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    No Steve, let's go back to the uniformed elevator operator with the white cotton gloves..."Floor please?"
    , @Anonymous
    How about an infrared sensor system like they use to flush toilets in stores like Wal-Mart. Just put your finger over the number of the floor you want and bingo. However, on second thought, the blind will still need braille plates -so your idea is better.
    , @Daniel Williams
    Or make it so the security fob that grants users access to certain floors also completes their selection. For employees only authorized to visit one floor, it would eliminate an entirely unnecessary step.

    When I worked on floor 23 of a big building in Los Angeles, my security key only allowed me to visit that floor and the lobby. But I still had to press the 23 button. Why not just have it make the selection for me? And if I got on the elevator while on floor 23, there’s obviously only one place I’m going, right? I bet this would work for 90% of the people in these buildings.

    Also a good idea would be glass screens (like on a phone) instead of buttons. Uneven, broken surfaces are far harder to clean than smooth ones. The control panels should all be like iPad surfaces; but I bet it would take a million years to get them certified by whatever eldritch and venerable commission approves equipment for use in elevators.
    , @vhrm

    Replace elevators buttons with voice recognition?
     
    One thing to remember is that the door handles and subway bars "smear" transmission model is hypothetical and increasingly unlikely as a major factor in covid-19.

    Washing hands or sanitizing periodically is probably ok advice to some degree, but it's also the government giving people a shamanic ritual to perform to make ourselves feel better.
  222. Two points.

    1) Williamsburg. There is nothing wrong with a well thought-out reconstruction. The Roman pool at Bath and the Palace of Knossos would not be worth seeing if there had not been some reconstruction, clearly marked and not intended to deceive.

    2) Highrise buildings. Commenters have touched on skyscrapers and on mass transit, but what about people with homes which can only be reached by elevator? The Grenfell fire revealed where the serfs live, and I do not suppose that they are working from home.

  223. @Intelligent Dasein
    I am so sorry. I will say prayers for him and his family and I will continue to hope, pray, and work towards ending this madness soon.

    To perish of depression without the comforts of home, without the sacraments, locked in a little shack of hopelessness, in a society as insane and indifferent as ours, is one of the worst things I can imagine. We have turned our world into a foretaste of Hell. The loneliness and despair that it's possible to feel as a young person today simply has no means of expression.

    We have to put a stop to this.

    Intell, Thank you for one of the best comments I have ever read on this site.

  224. I grew up in Philadelphia. I think the city has already reached herd immunity. It’s got 1.2 million people in a relatively small geographic area , more blue collar than NYC and most people don’t leave the city that often except in the summertime to go down the shore. Social distancing has not been enforced strictly so the young people have been able to mingle and build up the collective immunity.

  225. @Jack D

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto.
     
    I assume you haven't been to Philadelphia in many decades, if ever? Philly certainly does have a large black population but it's not like Detroit at all. It has a white mayor. It has gentrified areas, major universities and hospitals, a downtown business district, museums and other tourist attractions, a (formerly) thriving restaurant and bar scene, newly built skyscrapers and residential new construction. It's main train station is (was) heavily used and is not an abandoned ruin like Detroit's. It's more like Chicago than Detroit.

    The only part about Detroit that you got right is the shitty People Mover. Detroit even has a white mayor.

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
    Yeah, the "white mayor" bit was funny.

    Jack D. is an interesting character. He's one of the resident Jews, pushing the typical agenda, but unlike most of the others, Jack's strategy is to be the know-it-all Jew, giving you all sorts of micro-data on this, that and the other thing and generally playing rabbi for the more credulous goyim while subtly and, I must admit, rather deftly insinuating pro-Jew messaging here and there when the opportunity arises. For the most part, he comes off as less aggressively obvious than the other hasbarists at Unz.

    Interestingly, he only comments at Sailer's blog, which also sets him apart. He appears to have calculated that Sailer's readers, who make up 30% of the site's traffic, according to Ron Unz, will be more receptive to his shtick than those who read the other writers--a much more Jew-skeptical crowd.

    And he is literally here all the time. 16,000 comments, so he's a busy little fellow. Likes to tag-team with fellow conniver Art Deco. Quite the dynamic duo!

    But evidently he was so consumed with spewing out comments that he missed Mike Duggan as mayor of Motown.

  226. @Steve Sailer
    Replace elevators buttons with voice recognition?

    No Steve, let’s go back to the uniformed elevator operator with the white cotton gloves…”Floor please?”

  227. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Replace elevators buttons with voice recognition?

    How about an infrared sensor system like they use to flush toilets in stores like Wal-Mart. Just put your finger over the number of the floor you want and bingo. However, on second thought, the blind will still need braille plates -so your idea is better.

  228. @Buffalo Joe
    My daughter lives in Buck County, Pa., so we have visited Philly when we visit her. Philly drivers are a world unto themselves. A drivers license, a horn and a middle finger are all you need to drive in Philly...license is optional.

    Just like Boston.

  229. @nebulafox
    Scheiße, that's huge. No wonder they don't want news of that out.

    There's no way in ****ing hell the current order makes it out of this alive. I know it in my bones. The stench of decay has been out there for the past decade, but now? Now we need to start speaking about what comes next.

    There's no going back: this pandemic is going to change things, no matter how many people it does or does not kill. It hit a decaying, useless order like a truck, and that's all that matters. Good riddance, too. How stupid, how utterly useless do you need to be to squander the unprecedented potential that the US had after the USSR imploded?

    How stupid, how utterly useless do you need to be to squander the unprecedented potential that the US had after the USSR imploded?

    Stupid enough to be George H.W. Bush with his Woodrow Wilson perspective. Bush the Elder had an unholy combination of hubris, privilege, and misguided noblesse oblige, which he conveyed to Bush the Lesser.

  230. @Anonymous
    OT: It's the duty of all righteous men to excoriate and denounce communists. Despicable Bernie Sanders was allowed to cut a swath of destruction through the youth of America. Throughout his career he went almost entirely unchecked. He has warped and twisted millions of lives....

    Amazing Bernie supporter "rage quit" viral video:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1248082191218888705

    This girl is good looking, intelligent and she probably comes from an affluent family.

    She should be enjoying a fantastic love-filled life. But instead the Marxists seduced her and now she's standing in a lonely apartment with a shaved head screaming at the mirror.

    DON'T LET THIS SHIT HAPPEN TO THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE.

    “This girl is good looking, intelligent and she probably comes from an affluent family.

    She should be enjoying a fantastic love-filled life. But instead the Marxists seduced her and now she’s standing in a lonely apartment with a shaved head screaming at the mirror.”

    On the other hand, do you really want people that susceptible to Sanders’ toxic ideology reproducing? I don’t.

  231. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)

    Center City had a rather different character in those days. There are only a few cities remaining with that sort of restriction. Washington, DC is one, and, on a smaller scale, Madison, WI. It always seems rather strange to see big cities without any real skyscrapers.
     
    In my opinion the aesthetics of a City skyline are a lot like a man's haircut.

    A few long hairs don't make up a head, just as one or two very tall buildings don't make up a skyline. A man would usually look better with a head of hair all about the same length with some minor variations than with a few long wisps and little else (in which case shaving the head to achieve this evening out is optimal). Cities with a only a few prominent tall buildings and little else are the comb-over or mullet of skylines.

    Skyscrapers look best in large, dense flocks without too many outliers poking above the rest and without large perceived voids. I know that even 19 years later it's still a heresy, but I always felt that the World Trade Center towers made the overall Manhattan skyline unbalanced by their magnitude compared to the rest of the tall buildings.

    Skyscrapers look best in large, dense flocks without too many outliers poking above the rest and without large perceived voids.

    Not really—it depends on the specific location and architecture. The skylines of mid-1980s to ‘90s Miami (with its stand-alone illuminated Centrust Tower) and Boston’s Back Bay with its Prudential and John Hancock towers look(ed) great. But visually speaking, each city is in danger of being overbuilt—e.g., Boston’s new generic ultra-slick flat-topped One Dalton is too tall, impudently competing with the nearby iconic ‘retro’ Prudential.

    Boston’s beautiful Back Bay skyline (most pics pre- One Dalton):

    https://www.google.com/images?q=boston+skyline+back+bay

    Eighties downtown Miami:

  232. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    There are a large number of pre-Revolutionary War buildings in Charleston, South Carolina, which certainly wasn't a backwater for the first half of the 19th Century. (And of course many other places.) Your use of Manhattan as representative of overall American views towards history or historic buildings is simply false. Perhaps -- to be clear -- the type of people who inhabited (and inhabit) Manhattan don't give a shit about American history, but other Americans, living elsewhere, do, and always have. But pre-Revolutionary War history is made up of regional history, so it's not surprising at all that people in 19th Century South Carolina, or Vermont, or New York, felt it unnecessary to renovate Jamestown or the Middle Plantation, which was the responsibility of Virginians. And of course when Mount Vernon stopped being an operational plantation in the 1850s, it was shortly put under preservation (by a private group) and opened to the public. All decades and decades before Ellis Island opened.

    So no, the American story is certainly not about you, not all about immigrants, or Americans reactions to immigrants. We have our own proud history as colonists and settlers.

    I agree, but I think the regionalism issues matter. I’ve lived in many places in the US and large swaths of the country have cities and towns happy to recall their citizens’ pre-US heritage. My family on mom’s side are first generation immigrants as a result of WW2, ethnic Europeans arriving as DPs. Dad’s family from the potato famine. Both sides co existed in Chicago, which up until the mid 60s, still saw itself in ethnic terms, trying to maintain ethnic identity while achieving the American dream to some extent. Polish American clubs, Lithuanian summer camps, Irish dancing, Czech sokols, German language churches all existed. Minneapolis/St. Paul is similar still, with people up until the last few years comfortable identifying with their forefathers as immigrants. The Swedish american Institute is highly regarded, and hasn’t moved despite the neighborhood having turned. Local customs still harken to those societies because for some still living, they knew FarFar and MorMor came from overseas. 1850 just isn’t that long ago.

    But the South has had 200 MORE years to forget where they came from, to not need to hold onto some nostalgia. They have been Americans 100 years more than the great Midwest cities have existed, but they have been North Carolininas, Georgians, Virginians for another 100 before that. They didn’t build modern monuments to their own heritage like recent immigrants have because it never occurred to them there was a heritage to commemorate or celebrate. Why build a history to your normal existence? They commemorated in the normal way–naming the roads, the towns, etc. But their historical way of life was already American, so what needed preserving?

    Now, speaking as a Yankee, there’s another reason, which is now, its too late. They can’t remember anything without remembering slavery, and there’s only one allowed narrative for that, and it’s a shameful one, so they skip over that entirely. They’re not allowed. So they are towns without history because like Williamsburg and Mount Vernon, they aren’t allowed to tell it aloud. But it’s there for you to find if you look.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    Most of the older 18th and early 19th Century buildings in the South were preserved because great men (of power, if not virtue) lived in them, and these men had important impacts on American history. (Lots of old churches too, however.) So the cultural preservation is implicit -- most of the owners and builders had ancestry in the British Isles, or perhaps were French Huguenots, but that is not why they are remembered. The Northern and Midwestern clubs you describe are quite explicitly ethnic in a way that I never really saw growing up in the South. (Being Confederate is not an ethnicity.) That does explain somewhat how Southerners can see the region as steeped in history, while someone with an ethnic viewpoint thinks it contains generic Americans who never cared about history til immigrants came along.

    I disagree about slavery. Not that it wasn't wrong, but the long term effect on the view of American history. American history doesn't just suffer from progressive revisionism, it also suffers from a nonsensical need -- I might add inherited from Yankee Puritan-descended historians -- to somehow seek moral justifications for the country's founding. I have no issue with Jamestown being founded by adventurers looking for easy money, that is no less impressive to me than the Pilgrims or Puritans. And the American Indians around Jamestown wished to use the colonists just as much as they were used -- the Indians just happened to be weaker in the long run, and I don't have to apologize for my culture's success in that regard. Along that line, slavery was evil, but certainly not unique at all...and no doubt you are aware of that. So I think we disagree on how long many Americans will accept feeling somehow uniquely responsible for an economic and social system thousands of years old. Note another commenter mentioned Williamsburg had many new slave exhibits, that is very good. I'm not interested in hiding history at all. And I don't have to disavow it because it contains wrongs.
  233. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Ah, yes, there's nothing like making a cheap buck off of nostalgia. To a pure and pristine past, as idealized and saccharine as possible. At least its authentic history, folks! And all built with perfect symmetry and proportions, just like they did in days of yore.

    Ugh, goodness gracious, and egad.

    Ugh, goodness gracious, and egad.

    Y u mad tho? It looks pretty, and that’s a good thing:

    https://www.google.com/images?q=colonial+williamsburg

  234. Following your advice given in an earlier comment, I increased the humidity in my house from 42% to 50+%. It’s made a huge difference in my quality of life. (I have chronic sinusitis and respiratory allergies.) I’m breathing more freely and my nose no longer runs constantly.

    Your advice is much appreciated. Many thanks.

    • Replies: @DanHessinMD
    It is madness that the one thing everyone can do to improve respiratory health (humidify indoor spaces) is virtually never talked about.

    https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10.1146/annurev-virology-012420-022445

    Every other useful tidbit also gathers official opposition, from masks to travel bans to Hydroxychloroquine.

    Even the usual things that fight colds -- vitamin C and Zinc, are hardly talked about.

    It is asinine that now we will credit the shutdown of the economy -- rather than the turn of the seasons -- for the reduction in Coronavirus, so we have to keep the economy at depression levels indefinitely.

    The winners will be the ones who violate social distancing bans and get on with their lives rather than commit Hari-Kiri.
  235. @AnotherDad

    So get your own propaganda. Who’s stopping you?
     
    Agreed. A straight up response.

    Whites--and the people of any nation--need media/propaganda that is on the side of the nation not against it.

    As to who is stopping it...

    No question, whites--man per man--don't have the verbal IQ, aren't as good at propaganda as Jews. And Jews have something between a veto and a stranglehold on existing and powerful American media.

    And, of course, Jews and their gentile SJW fellow travelers, do work to deplatform anyone who dissents from Jewish minoritarianism. So don't pretend there is no "who" that's trying to stop nationalists.

    But yeah. If American patriots and generally patriots of Western Civilization don't get our shit together, including getting our own--actually true--narrative out there ... America and Western Civilization will simple sink under the minoritarian/immigrationist tide.

    No question, whites–man per man–don’t have the verbal IQ, aren’t as good at propaganda as Jews.

    LOL. Speak for yourself, AD. Taunt-o sez: “Who’s weak, Emo Sobby?”

    But yeah. If American patriots and generally patriots of Western Civilization don’t get our shit together, including getting our own–actually true–narrative out there …

    Yes, and that’s happening in fits and starts. The Overton in recent years been pushed right in mainstream American discourse. The internet/social media has (incidentally) been a big help with this. But backing it up there has to be enough common underlying instinct and will to get real bloody if need be. It’s happened before, and it can happen again. I would rather it doesn’t, but some people never learn: The ride never ends.

    E.g., check out this Tribesman (screen right, foreground) and accomplices almost blundering into the Boogaloo:

    In short: Plaintive complaining to/about autistic merchants is lame.

    For now, in this forum, mordant mockery is best. 😉

  236. @Mike Zwick
    I think an analogy could be made that Philadelphia is similar, but larger than, Baltimore. Maybe not in the context of today's demographics and politics, but if the physical built environment.

    Baltimore only recently adopted other-than-bus mass transit. Sort of like St. Louis and Seattle. It does have an elite University, so there’s that.

  237. @Mr McKenna

    "Why Is Philadelphia Not Much Like New York City?"
     
    Another, possibly relevant question: Why don't Asians like Ann Coulter? Oh, I know:

    Washington state was the site of our very first case. Washington state is also 9.3% Asian. Even now, it has eight times more coronavirus cases per capita than neighboring Oregon (4.8% Asian).

    Could it be that Chinese-Americans have more contact with the epicenter of this plague than other Americans? As the left always lectures us, BELIEVE THE SCIENCE!

    The virus next leapt to New York (9% Asian) and New Jersey (10% Asian). The worst-hit borough of Manhattan is Queens. Guess which borough has the most Asians? Elmhurst Hospital in Queens is the worst-hit hospital in the nation. Elmhurst neighborhood: 50% Asian.

    Notice a pattern? While it’s true that “viruses don’t have nationalities!” — and thank you very much for pointing that out, media! — the carriers of viruses do have nationalities.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/ill-have-the-chicken-testicle-soup-hold-the-deadly-virus/
     

    BWTM:

    Although, it occurs to me that, despite America’s terrible toxic whiteness, one way our culture is superior to others is that we don’t believe lunatic nonsense that wipes out entire species or launches viral pandemics on the world.
     

    You gotta separate the east asians from the south asians. At least half in Jersey and Elmhurst are south asian.

  238. @Alice
    I was at CW two Novembers ago. There were literally 3-4k kids there on field trips each day (I counted the buses.) But the Thomas Jefferson talk done by the brilliant TJ reenactor Bill Barker was attended by exactly 3 children, my 3, all homeschooled.

    The schools refused to bring their students, elementary, middle, or high school, to an open forum where they could ask Thomas Jefferson anything. (mine asked about code wheels and secret messages... not exactly political science..sigh)

    It was so depressing. It wasn't just that the convincing of our children that the Founders were evil and the founding illegitimate has been complete. No, because they didn't even denouce TJ or heckle his ideas. No, we have been overcome by teachers and students too stupid to even know there were ideas related to the Founding, and none of them have any interest in discussing ideas at all. This discussion of ideas was once known as thinking.

    This may well be the most depressing comment I’ve ever read here. Not that it comes as any surprise but still…

    It must have been even worse seeing it first-hand.

  239. @Anonymous
    Great post by Jack D. If I criticize him when he makes off the wall unsubstantiated claims, I have to praise him when he dispenses truths, especially subtle not immediately intuitive ones. His point underscores the controversy around confederate symbols in the flags of Southern States. Many of these symbols didn't appear in these flags until immediately after WWII when Jim Crow and segregation policies came under attack (e.g. Thurmond's Dixiecrat run in 48 as a reaction to Dems 48 platform). Those who claim that those symbols have no racial connotations and are only meant to honor a Southern heritage of service and courage are dishonest.

    Those who claim that those symbols have no racial connotations

    The flag of slavery was the Stars and Bars. The battle flag was always aimed at enemy whites, then and now. That’s why hillbillies wave it today, even though many of their ancestors sided with the Union, against the diversity-loving planters.

  240. @captflee
    Thank you, ma'm, for giving your offspring what I am sure is a far superior education to that which the vast majority receives, as evidenced by your observations of Colonial Williamsburg.

    Being in part descended from the Jamestown diaspora, and growing up within relatively easy driving distance, I was a bit of a frequent visitor. As the father of a curious and energetic three year old and a then resident of James City County (thus eligible for free or heavily discounted admission to various historical sites) we spent a lot of time in that millenial year at CW.

    One thing that struck me over the years, commencing about 1959, was the bit that they used to do in the Assembly Building where they would have all stand, then commence reading out the requirements for voting, having those unqualified sit as their disqualifying condition (age, sex, value property owned, etc.) was called, until only a precious few remained. Over the years, I noticed that this little cohort grew steadily smaller. The last time, I was "it", the others having failed to surmount the C of E barrier, and I was then still an Episcopalian. How this tracks with post '65 immigration I have thoughts probably best unsaid.

    Some of the re-enactors at CW are indeed very good. I used to rather enjoy their Patrick Henry, anti-federalist that I am.

    Some of the re-enactors at CW are indeed very good. I used to rather enjoy their Patrick Henry, anti-federalist that I am.

    Does anyone reënact John Lansing and Robert Yates today? Or even Alexander Hamilton’s returning to the Constitutional Convention to discover the rest of his delegation had already stormed out?

    https://teachingamericanhistory.org/static/convention/delegates/lansing.html

    https://teachingamericanhistory.org/static/convention/delegates/yates.html

    https://www.nyhistory.org/web/crossroads/gallery/all/letter_to_clinton_nyjournal_jan14_1788.html

    Oh, wait– a possible reënactment from deep in the North Woods:

    https://archive.csac.history.wisc.edu › …PDF
    A Readers Theater–Based on a Letter of Robert Yates and John Lansing to Governor George Clinton Explaining their Early Departure (PDF)

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    When did Funkadelic Parliament bandleader George Clinton become governor?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnGXXLcwLVs
  241. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:

    A retired journalist (i.e., one of those old fuddy-duddy types who researched and reported out stories rather than write “hot takes”) dug into that English epidemiologist Neil Furguson, he of the “Imperial College Report.”

    https://www.powerlineblog.com

    It turns out that this guy has been spectacularly wrong in past predictions, on the ludicrously high side:

    Bird flu: Fergie: 150,000,000 million dead. Actual: 455 from 2003 to present.

    Mad Cow/CJD: Fergie: 50,000. Actual: 178 to present.

    See also:

    https://www.the-sun.com/news/608045/hysteria-has-forced-the-uk-into-lockdown-crashed-the-economy-and-will-kill-more-than-coronavirus/

    It was the same Neil Ferguson whose nightmarish forecast of mass fatalities from “mad cow disease” proved totally wrong and whose policy of mass ­slaughter for foot-and-mouth disease cost us £8BILLION.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/28/neil-ferguson-scientist-convinced-boris-johnson-uk-coronavirus-lockdown-criticised/

    Neil Ferguson, the scientist who convinced Boris Johnson of UK coronavirus lockdown, criticised in past for flawed research
    Professor Neil Ferguson predicted Britain was on course to lose 250,000 lives during the coronavirus epidemic

  242. @Reg Cæsar

    Some of the re-enactors at CW are indeed very good. I used to rather enjoy their Patrick Henry, anti-federalist that I am.
     
    Does anyone reënact John Lansing and Robert Yates today? Or even Alexander Hamilton's returning to the Constitutional Convention to discover the rest of his delegation had already stormed out?

    https://teachingamericanhistory.org/static/convention/delegates/lansing.html

    https://teachingamericanhistory.org/static/convention/delegates/yates.html

    https://www.nyhistory.org/web/crossroads/gallery/all/letter_to_clinton_nyjournal_jan14_1788.html


    Oh, wait-- a possible reënactment from deep in the North Woods:


    https://archive.csac.history.wisc.edu › ...PDF
    A Readers Theater–Based on a Letter of Robert Yates and John Lansing to Governor George Clinton Explaining their Early Departure
    (PDF)
  243. @Hibernian
    Philadelphia is a Northeastern Chicago.

    Chicago is much denser. Philadelphia reminds me more of Boston.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Chicago probably has more luxury high rises than either Philly or Boston, both of which I have visited. These tend to have low household sizes per unit. Just about all of our high rise public housing projects have been torn down. Don't know how many, if any, of those are left in either Philly or Boston. When you get away from the lake, with few exceptions, residential housing is either 1, 1 1/2 or 2 stories. There are some concentrations of 3 story buildings. Four story walkups are rare and are either one of a very few in their neighborhood or in a few concentrations very close to downtown. No NYC style 5+ story walkups that I know of, with the possible exception of something called the St. Benedict flats on the Near North side along with the adjacent yellow brick building (SBF is red brick); however I think these 2 may be fitted with elevators.
  244. @Paleo Liberal
    I went to college outside Philly in the late 70s and early 80s.

    In those days, as the saying went, no building was higher than Billy Penn's hat.

    Although there were buildings literally across the street from City Hall that came very close to Mr. Penn in height.

    Center City had a rather different character in those days. There are only a few cities remaining with that sort of restriction. Washington, DC is one, and, on a smaller scale, Madison, WI. It always seems rather strange to see big cities without any real skyscrapers.

    Fun fact. To avoid “the curse of Billy Penn”, most, if not all, new skyscrapers in Filthaderpia have a miniature figure of the Billy Penn statue affixed to the top of the new buildings.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Wow. I looked it up. This really is true.

    No major Philly sports team won a championship between the time the first tower went over Billy Penn's hat and when they started putting miniature figures of Billy Penn.
  245. Hail says: • Website
    @PiltdownMan
    Not OT:

    German antibody study indicates fatality rate of 0.37 percent

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/08/coronavirus-latest-news-2/#link-2H64MNBNRVCWJPBJQTVLVHCZ4E

    Thank you, PiltdownMan. Though the link doesn’t point to the story, rather to an “All Corona, All The Time” live-ticker, I was able to locate the study elsewhere.

    (Search for “Vorläufiges Ergebnis und Schlussfolgerungen der COVID-19 Case-Cluster-Study (Gemeinde Gangelt)Prof. Dr. Hendrik Streeck (Institut für Virologie)…”)

    Summary: The study was carried out in Gangelt, one of Germany’s towns with among the highest rates of coronavirus patients; i.e., this town is of interest because it is an outlier at the high end, More info would be of interest on local circumstances; was there a nursing-home cluster?

    Why Gangelt? The town supposedly had a mass spreading event on Feb. 24 or 25, at a Carnival parade.

    The town of Gangelt (pop.: 12,500) is in the district Kreis Heinsberg (pop: 254,000). There were 47 deaths in the district as of yesterday, 900 corona-positive full-recoveries, and 529 corona-positives still showing symptoms.

    In a sample of people from the town, evidence was found that 16% had had definite contact with the virus, of whom 2% showed current ‘positives’ and 14% showed evidence of a past ‘positive’ and now had immunity from this strain of virus (which is how some news outlets are reporting the finding; “14% Immune! A CoronaReligion miracle! Just in time for Easter! /Editor’s note: ‘Easter’ was a former holiday under the old religion that preceded the Corona Religion.”). The remaining 84% didn’t show signs of contact with the virus. Not sure what the Type I or Type II errors are.

    The big deal here is that this new study implies the district in question had something in the tens of thousands of other corona-positives who never showed symptoms and were never tested, again corroborating the figures previously found and estimated that this coronavirus is asymptomatic in 90% of cases, maybe more. That’s fort-seven deaths of maybe twenty- or thirty-thousand (implied) corona-positives in the district.

    The finding gives a snapshot of an embryonic stage of the much-talked-about “herd immunity,” just as always develops with every flu virus, something usually only of interest to specialists.

    The state’s 47 deaths will probably rise to 60, maybe 70 deaths, if remaining patients die at the same rate as before. Deaths at ~65 out of 254,000 residents is ~25 deaths per 100k total population, many of which were probably “died with” and not “died from.”

    How many corona-positives were/are there in the district of Kreis Heinsberg? If the district as a whoe has half Gangelt’s 16% corona-positive rate, that’s an implied ca.20,500 corona-positives in the district, meaning the death rate in one of Germany’s worst-hit places has a True Fatality Rate of 0.23%, likely rising to 0.30% when remaining patients die. However, there is a big caveat. The just-calculated figure 0.2%–0.3% must be revised downward to correct for the tricky “deaths with vs. deaths from” problem.

    If Germany’s corona-positive deaths follow Sweden’s, where it is reported that two-thirds are deathbed-patients — i.e., “deaths with” and not “deaths from” — The ‘True Corona Fatality Rate’ in this community in Germany is the ballpark 0f 0.08% (0.067% to 0.1%); on the other hand, if local circumstances push “deaths with” higher, up to the Italian figure of 88%, we’re down to ca. 0.02% to 0.04% as the True Corona Fatality Rate.

    So these derivable estimates from the Gangelt study mean a True Corona Fatality Rate of 0.02% to 0.08%, which is in line with Dr. Ioannidis’ estimates using US data, and the French team’s findings published about March 20, and the study by Dr. John Lee in the UK of late March, and others, who all estimated a similar true fatality rate, almost all appear confident that final mortality will be <0.1% of corona-positives.

    If you don't like to get tangled up in "deaths with vs. deaths from," one can stick with the reliable Total Deaths of All Causes data and see if you can observe a rise. Kreis Heinsberg's expected deaths in normal conditions for March and April are something about 450 to 500. Corona-positive deaths: 47 so far; of which are "deaths from," unknown.

    • Thanks: ic1000, PiltdownMan
    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    Many thanks for spotting the out-of-date link, and for finding the correct study—not to mention giving credit beyond what is due, given the bum link I posted.

    The details in your comment are very interesting. I wonder if the Stanford study Mr. Sailer posted yesterday will lead to a similar conclusion. The really interesting speculation is, of course, whether these studies, which normally be expected to have some effect on the public health response and lockdown, will get ignored, or worse, politicized, simply because the President might highlight their existence in an aside in some press conference in the coming days.

    As we've seen, dispassionate wait-and-see journalism is cast aside the second anything is uttered by the President; as in the case of the hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin cocktail many doctors around the world are trying on an empirical basis, along with other heuristic medical approaches. As is always the norm in an epidemic involving a new disease.
  246. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Neither a New Yorker nor a clear-eyed objective Martian observer would ever confuse NYC with Philadelphia. No disrespect to either place: they are simply not alike, except in being large Northeastern cities.

    Philly blows 😉 That’s how we’d say it back in the day. Agree that they’re very different.

  247. @CrunchyButRealistCon
    Philly always feels way less crowded than NYC in terms of sidewalk traffic, subway/commuter train use & the relative popularity if its core with SWPLs. It feels a bit like a cross between Newark & Boston wrt scale & demographics

    Demographics of Boston are nothing like Philly. When I get on mass transit in Boston it’s mostly white people. First time I did that I though I had died and gone to heaven (or maybe Moscow), it had been so long that I had been on a subway with all white people.

    In Philly it’s rare to see a white person on the bus or subway. Then again, good luck getting a pahkin spot in Boston. When I drive downtown in Philly to go to dinner I can usually get a spot on the street or if not, a garage is $8 or 10. Try that in Boston.

    • Replies: @Kibernetika
    First time I did that I though I had died and gone to heaven (or maybe Moscow), it had been so long that I had been on a subway with all white people.

    Well, Jack, we Amerikosi have different notions of race and ethnicity than do most Russians. This could be a good graduate course. But to an American's eye, everyone in RU may seem "white." This is a very complicated subject!
    , @Hibernian
    Boston has an expressway that ends at a parking garage which is adjacent to a subway station.
    , @CrunchyButRealistCon
    Sure. I did say it felt like a cross between Newark & Boston for demographics. So Blacks predominate in many parts plus there's some tough White working class football fans who come in from the burbs.
    , @AceDeuce
    Dinner is in the evening. You come into Center City Philadelphia in the evening, and can park in a garage for $8 or $10? Are you writing from 1993?
  248. @AceDeuce
    Fun fact. To avoid "the curse of Billy Penn", most, if not all, new skyscrapers in Filthaderpia have a miniature figure of the Billy Penn statue affixed to the top of the new buildings.

    Wow. I looked it up. This really is true.

    No major Philly sports team won a championship between the time the first tower went over Billy Penn’s hat and when they started putting miniature figures of Billy Penn.

    • Replies: @NJ Transit Commuter
    Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. The Billy Penn curse was crazy. Philly teams had great sports success in the early 1980s until the completion of the first building higher than the William Penn statue atop City Hall.

    And then there was a 25 streak of bad luck with just some crazy events:
    - the Flyers goalie (top in the league at the time) killed in a car wreck.
    - Jerome Brown, one of the best defensive tackles ever, also killed in a car crash.
    - the Fog Bowl in Chicago.

    In 2008 during, the construction of the new tallest building in Philly, the Comcast Center, the workers put a little statue of William Penn on top. Within a year, the Phillies won a World Series. Since then the Eagles have won a Super Bowl and Villanova 2 NCAA basketball titles...
  249. @Jack D
    Demographics of Boston are nothing like Philly. When I get on mass transit in Boston it's mostly white people. First time I did that I though I had died and gone to heaven (or maybe Moscow), it had been so long that I had been on a subway with all white people.

    In Philly it's rare to see a white person on the bus or subway. Then again, good luck getting a pahkin spot in Boston. When I drive downtown in Philly to go to dinner I can usually get a spot on the street or if not, a garage is $8 or 10. Try that in Boston.

    First time I did that I though I had died and gone to heaven (or maybe Moscow), it had been so long that I had been on a subway with all white people.

    Well, Jack, we Amerikosi have different notions of race and ethnicity than do most Russians. This could be a good graduate course. But to an American’s eye, everyone in RU may seem “white.” This is a very complicated subject!

  250. @Hibernian

    And like Detroit, Phily remains majority black.
     
    45% each white and black, 10% all others (Hispanic & Asian.)

    According to most recent US census, the racial composition of Detroit was:

    Black or African American: 78.64%
    White: 14.55%
    Other race: 2.92.
    Etc. etc.

    Detroit is majority black. Clearly. By every metric. Come on.

    According to the most recent US census, the racial composition of Philadelphia was:
    Black or African American: 42.27%
    White: 41.19%
    Asian: 7.15%
    Other race: 5.94%
    Two or more races: 3.03%

    And remember, that was most recent census, (2010). If Philly was majority black then, its clearly so right now and the 2020 Census will bear this out. Would be a safe estimate that Philly is currently around 45% black and 35-38% white, with the number continually decreasing with each passing decade.

    After all, why would any sensible white stay in the city if they can live in the suburbs?

    Come on.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    You've confused plurality (A group having the largest population compared to other groups) with majority. I didn't deny that Detroit was majority Black. (I used the word each to refer to two races, not two cities.) Your numerical claims, which I accept as reasonable, do not amount to a Black majority (over 50.0001%) in either 2010 or 2020, in Philly, although I'd agree that it's certainly possible in the future.

    Majority and plurality are only equivalent in the special case where there are only 2 groups into which a population is divided, 2 political candidates running for an office, etc.

    I admit that the 45% figure for both Blacks and Whites in Philly was an off the top of my head memory from something I read about one of their last 2 mayoral elections. It's not far from your 2010 census figure. The 2010 census shows a Black plurality.

    As to your last sentence, there are many reasons people live in the city. As society collapses, they don't seem so good as they once did.

  251. @eD
    I mostly agree with this but will focus on two problems I have with this narrative, a minor one and a major one.

    The minor problem is that the reason there are few buildings from the colonial period in New York is that nearly all of them burned down in a fire in 1835 and in similar fires. Its the same reason why its hard to find buildings from the Civil War period in Chicago. The buildings that survived the fire almost all got reserved.

    The second problem is related to a trope I often read on this site and is a logical issue. Immigration would have nothing to do with a decline in attendance at an attraction favored by the "native" non-immigrant population. This is even assuming that the entire population increase of the USA after 1985 was due to immigration and that there was no assimilation whatsoever (it happens that there is evidence to support both of these assumptions). Logically, this could well produce a stagnation in attendance at something like colonial Williamsburg but would not produce a decline in attendance. To get a decline in attendance, you need an absolute decline in the numbers of the native population.

    Well since 1985 there hasn't been a decline in the number of "real" Americans however you define it. But there has been a decline in the number of middle class Americans and this is well documented. This would cause difficulty at institutions catering to the said middle class.

    There has been a significant decline in the absolute number of real Americans….the census data proves this , just compare the 1980 census to the 2010 census.

    Not too difficult to see the absolute number of whites under the age of 50 has declined since 1990 and whites are no longer the majority of those under the age of 15. The number of white families has fallen since 1985. This is easy to document and observe.

  252. Anon[398] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr McKenna
    Wow, David Cole's even more on point. Linking just FYI.


    If the CCP vanished tomorrow, the wet markets would still be there in China, along with the seeds of the next, worse SARS and COVID. And yes, U.S. officials on all sides bungled the COVID response; no one is without error in this catastrophe. But if Trump, Pence, Pelosi, Schumer, and Cuomo vanished tomorrow, the wet markets would still be there in China, along with the seeds of the next, worse SARS and COVID.

    From this point on, there can be nothing that takes priority over shutting down the Chinese exotic-animal trade and wet markets. Nothing.

    https://www.takimag.com/article/wuhan-derangement-syndrome/
     

    Blaming someone from the other side of the planet, and who wouldn’t be bothered to retort, is stupid. Why does your country have a government, if three bateaters from the antipodes dictate your health and the hours you can walk out of your homes? Even if China disappears tomorrow, isn’t there another billion of cow pee drinkers, and another billion of bushmeat eaters?

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Why exactly do you want the wet markets to remain open? Cow pee and bush meat aren't causing the major viruses of the last two decades. Camel meat, yes. But for the most part they're coming from China. The UN ought to demand that they close them now, since can hardly expect the US to withdraw economic activity from the country and bring the outsourced jobs back to the US (particularly those jobs that are crucial in the pharmaceutical industry, could start there).
  253. @Reg Cæsar

    Some of the re-enactors at CW are indeed very good. I used to rather enjoy their Patrick Henry, anti-federalist that I am.
     
    Does anyone reënact John Lansing and Robert Yates today? Or even Alexander Hamilton's returning to the Constitutional Convention to discover the rest of his delegation had already stormed out?

    https://teachingamericanhistory.org/static/convention/delegates/lansing.html

    https://teachingamericanhistory.org/static/convention/delegates/yates.html

    https://www.nyhistory.org/web/crossroads/gallery/all/letter_to_clinton_nyjournal_jan14_1788.html


    Oh, wait-- a possible reënactment from deep in the North Woods:


    https://archive.csac.history.wisc.edu › ...PDF
    A Readers Theater–Based on a Letter of Robert Yates and John Lansing to Governor George Clinton Explaining their Early Departure
    (PDF)

    When did Funkadelic Parliament bandleader George Clinton become governor?

  254. @Alice
    I agree, but I think the regionalism issues matter. I've lived in many places in the US and large swaths of the country have cities and towns happy to recall their citizens' pre-US heritage. My family on mom's side are first generation immigrants as a result of WW2, ethnic Europeans arriving as DPs. Dad's family from the potato famine. Both sides co existed in Chicago, which up until the mid 60s, still saw itself in ethnic terms, trying to maintain ethnic identity while achieving the American dream to some extent. Polish American clubs, Lithuanian summer camps, Irish dancing, Czech sokols, German language churches all existed. Minneapolis/St. Paul is similar still, with people up until the last few years comfortable identifying with their forefathers as immigrants. The Swedish american Institute is highly regarded, and hasn't moved despite the neighborhood having turned. Local customs still harken to those societies because for some still living, they knew FarFar and MorMor came from overseas. 1850 just isn't that long ago.

    But the South has had 200 MORE years to forget where they came from, to not need to hold onto some nostalgia. They have been Americans 100 years more than the great Midwest cities have existed, but they have been North Carolininas, Georgians, Virginians for another 100 before that. They didn't build modern monuments to their own heritage like recent immigrants have because it never occurred to them there was a heritage to commemorate or celebrate. Why build a history to your normal existence? They commemorated in the normal way--naming the roads, the towns, etc. But their historical way of life was already American, so what needed preserving?

    Now, speaking as a Yankee, there's another reason, which is now, its too late. They can't remember anything without remembering slavery, and there's only one allowed narrative for that, and it's a shameful one, so they skip over that entirely. They're not allowed. So they are towns without history because like Williamsburg and Mount Vernon, they aren't allowed to tell it aloud. But it's there for you to find if you look.

    Most of the older 18th and early 19th Century buildings in the South were preserved because great men (of power, if not virtue) lived in them, and these men had important impacts on American history. (Lots of old churches too, however.) So the cultural preservation is implicit — most of the owners and builders had ancestry in the British Isles, or perhaps were French Huguenots, but that is not why they are remembered. The Northern and Midwestern clubs you describe are quite explicitly ethnic in a way that I never really saw growing up in the South. (Being Confederate is not an ethnicity.) That does explain somewhat how Southerners can see the region as steeped in history, while someone with an ethnic viewpoint thinks it contains generic Americans who never cared about history til immigrants came along.

    I disagree about slavery. Not that it wasn’t wrong, but the long term effect on the view of American history. American history doesn’t just suffer from progressive revisionism, it also suffers from a nonsensical need — I might add inherited from Yankee Puritan-descended historians — to somehow seek moral justifications for the country’s founding. I have no issue with Jamestown being founded by adventurers looking for easy money, that is no less impressive to me than the Pilgrims or Puritans. And the American Indians around Jamestown wished to use the colonists just as much as they were used — the Indians just happened to be weaker in the long run, and I don’t have to apologize for my culture’s success in that regard. Along that line, slavery was evil, but certainly not unique at all…and no doubt you are aware of that. So I think we disagree on how long many Americans will accept feeling somehow uniquely responsible for an economic and social system thousands of years old. Note another commenter mentioned Williamsburg had many new slave exhibits, that is very good. I’m not interested in hiding history at all. And I don’t have to disavow it because it contains wrongs.

  255. @Anonymouse
    not really OT

    Joker the movie is visually a good representation of the NYCscape. With liberal borrowings from the King of Comedy and the white dude that shot up 4 young blacks in a subway car, and the Adam Sandler gag about promising not to look while he washed your grandmother, the hero is life-damaged through no fault of his own. The degree of mean-spiritedness that is assigned to the folks Joker works with is not very high, just coarse. There is no denouement to the movie, at the end Jocker seems to be in a lunatic asylum. A friend, an admirer of Joker, explained away the lack of a denouement by pointing out that the movie is a prequel therefore does not require one. The King of Comedy's denouement was Rupert Pupkin the worst comic in the world actually knocking the audience dead on TV and becoming the new King of comedy.

    Can it be that there is no denouement in history? Speaking for myself, coping, I am struck by the oddness of this moment in history. The permanent re-ordering of a good deal of work hitherto done in office aggregations to Internet connectivity is likely. There is a 66 story building being built right next to our older apartment house. As the city (Austin) has decreed an end to construction, I believe the builders are winding down this early stage about 6 months into the project with the cement walls in place going down about 4 storys and the last of the fill being removed. The locals have not been informed whether said 66 story skyscaper will be offices or residences. The city is semed with skyscrapers, office buildings and residential, the previous tallest a 55 story residential bldg. There is a 44 story residential tower built with Chinese money a Chinese friend of mine told me. Last time I drove past it about 2 months ago, none of the balconies sported furniture. By analogy I would assume that the next door project is residential. The office buildings dont have balconies. No traffic no sirens. 6 deaths so far. >400 infected at last count.

    The King of Comedy‘s denouement was Rupert Pupkin the worst comic in the world actually knocking the audience dead on TV and becoming the new King of comedy.

    I like the Jersey jokes.

    As an aside, do you think the character of Rupert’s mother was real or a figment of his imagination. We never see her and no other character hears her.

  256. Its late in the thread, but I forgot to point out that two of the better movies about pandemics, “Twelve Monkey” and “World War Z”, both have their opening scenes set in Philadelphia.

  257. @Paleo Liberal
    Wow. I looked it up. This really is true.

    No major Philly sports team won a championship between the time the first tower went over Billy Penn's hat and when they started putting miniature figures of Billy Penn.

    Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. The Billy Penn curse was crazy. Philly teams had great sports success in the early 1980s until the completion of the first building higher than the William Penn statue atop City Hall.

    And then there was a 25 streak of bad luck with just some crazy events:
    – the Flyers goalie (top in the league at the time) killed in a car wreck.
    – Jerome Brown, one of the best defensive tackles ever, also killed in a car crash.
    – the Fog Bowl in Chicago.

    In 2008 during, the construction of the new tallest building in Philly, the Comcast Center, the workers put a little statue of William Penn on top. Within a year, the Phillies won a World Series. Since then the Eagles have won a Super Bowl and Villanova 2 NCAA basketball titles…

  258. @captflee
    I was particularly enamored of the "Wait for Green" signs at the intersections. Granted, there is a second or so when no lights show, and I'm a brisk driver by nature, but Jeeez... The weekly 500 mile commute to Filthadelphia (I kid!) I engaged in for several years on one route passed through DC, BodyMore, and a of bit Philly (as far as the Navy Yard, anyway), those three then comprising half of the top six worst driving cities in the country, with Philly being #6, so the best of that sorry lot. I USED to think the locals were bad drivers here (S.E. NC), and while certainly competitive with the Carolinians in larger burgs such as RDU or, God forbid, Charlotte, they are the merest pikers in comparison with the drivers infesting the Fredericksburg VA-Boston blob.

    That said, I found that in most other respects the inhabitants of Philadelphia are a pretty good bunch, fairly polite and friendly, more so than most blob-oids, and the driveability is a bonus, removing the necessity for mass transit and being involuntarily cheek by jowl with the canaille.

    Am assuming that Bucks is still decent. Half a lifetime ago I loved a girl who lived in Hatboro/ Warminster, so got to see a bit of the place. Should the infernal regions succumb to The Coming Ice Age I would certainly consider moving there.

    Capt, Bucks County is Big Bucks County but surprisingly they had a County Fair there and quite agricultural. My son-in-law and a lot of other commuters take the train to Manhattan. My wife and I drive around and gawk at the estates. Move there if you can. Just minutes to Princeton, a bit further to Philly.

  259. @Jack D

    Williamsburg, Va is just about to close up shop (even before Corona) despite making tremendous efforts to be ‘inclusive’ with a several dozen slavery exhibits. No one’s interested any more.
     
    For most of the 19th century, Americans were not at all interested in historic buildings. They were just OLD buildings to them and they had no qualms about knocking them down to build something new and better. You can count on the fingers of 1 hand the number of pre-Revolutionary buildings in Manhattan. Williamsburg survived because it was a backwater and no one was interested in building anything new there so they let the colonial buildings just molder without bothering to knock them down. For almost a century, the Levy family pleaded with the US Government to take over Monticello and the government turned them down over and over (despite being offered the place for free). Taking care of old buildings in perpetuity was not the business of government.

    So what changed? A big impetus was that as America was being overwhelmed by the last great wave of immigration, Founding Stock Americans wanted to stake a claim for themselves that they were better than New Americans because their ancestors got here first and were the ones responsible for the great system that we have. Historic buildings were tangible proof of their claim and needed to be preserved. The preservation of Williamsburg dates only to the 1920s.

    And of course they were right - as the new generation of Americans is half white, visits to Williamsburg have fallen by half. If you are a Latino, what Tomas Yefferson was doing in 1776 is of no great concern to you. Latinos don't really care about history or other book larnin' type stuff in general, let alone wasting their time walking thru some dusty old building where the white guys in wigs used to debate.

    “Founding Stock Americans wanted to stake a claim for themselves that they were better than New Americans because their ancestors got here first and were the ones responsible for the great system that we have.”

    Just out of curiosity, what is your evidence for this assertion? Sounds like something that conniving little half-Jew, Richard Hofstadter, would have claimed. Much more likely that there was simply concern among intellectuals, the political class and the wealthy that the memory of the early republic was being lost and preservation would help sustain it. Preservation for Mount Vernon was already underway before the Civil War.

    Most people couldn’t travel for touristic purposes until the 20th century, because the transportation network wouldn’t support it and they didn’t have the disposable income, so there is no reason to think that it was simply a matter of “not caring.” And the capital available from the wealthy of the post-Civil War industrial/commercial magnates made preservation a much more viable affair in the late 19th and early 20th century even before the government got involved.

    Preservation is largely a 20th century phenomenon anyway. The National Trust in the UK is a 20th century initiative (started in 1895 and given powers under law in 1907.).

    • Replies: @Jack D
    For example, the fund raising for the acquisition of Monticello had an expressly anti-Semitic angle, with false stories spread that the Levy's had cheated Jefferson's heirs out of the place (even though the opposite was true). In one widely printed version, they had Uriah Levy speaking in fake Yiddish dialect (" I vud not zell it to you for five tousant tolers, even!") even though he was Sephardic and his ancestors had arrived in New Amsterdam even before the British.
  260. @AnotherDad

    I bet it’s the subway.
     
    Kudos to my fellow commenters here. A lot of people have nailed this right off the bat. There are particular issues--world travel, the Orthodox Jews--but the main thing is that NYC is simply the most dense, most "cityish" city in America. Including the only place that most people use public transport rather than their own car to get to work.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_transit_systems_by_ridership

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density


    ~~~

    A bit of historical perspective ...

    Cities are deeply *unnatural*.

    Our ancestors lived for millions of years in small tribes--no more than 100 or so before they'd split. Then after the neolithic agriculture revolution in small villages. That is the social environment we are designed for.

    But after settlement, suddenly there was this new "ecological niche" of a parasite class using force to rule over and extract from productive farmers. I.e. taxes. (And slavery, serfdom, etc.) There had to be someplace where they parked themselves with their extractive apparatus, bureaucratcy, the military force necessary to protect themselves from other parasites, and all the associated rent-seekers and other assorted hangers on. The city was born.

    (Our two richest super-zippy cities produce basically nothing Americans want, but are simply the Wall Street-Washington twin poles of parasitism living large off productive people in the vast American heartland.)

    It was only with the industrial revolution that scale in productive endeavors required city--at least small city scale for some productive activities.


    Cities have *always* been the population sinks in the best of times and the epicenters of epidemic in the worst.

    It wasn't until the late industrial revolution when we had the capability to provide clean water and effective sanitation that cities even could replicate their population.

    But even with that ... they still don't. Every year we have hundreds of thousands of smart young women with their fresh BAs flocking to the "cool places to be" cities--NY, DC, LA, the Bay Area, Seattle, Chicago, Boston--for their b.s. BA careers. And then with the expensive housing and glued to their jobs forming families late--or never at all. These cities are not just population sinks but IQ shredders.


    Ironically ... there's less need for the city than ever before! The one truly productive aspect of the city was that proximity facilitated knowledge sharing. The latest ideas in science and technology--how the world works and how to do things better. But now proximity is moot. Steve doesn't have to have us all over to the iSteve salon--for which he is very thankful! Steve can stay in his closest and we can discuss these issues on-line.

    If you were to study history as the progression of ideas over the world, as I did, you would enter the lecture hall day after day and hear about the progression of human knowledge. It was like a fugue, one nation would move into the forefront and then another. Mesopotamia, Greece, Rome, dark ages/China, Japan for a brief moment, Middle East/Turkey, Italian Renaissance (Southern Italy), Protestant Revolution (Northern Europe), Great Briton — then America.

    Nothing in the education was due to me, it was created by scholars. They had a good idea and I benefited.

    We had five lectures a week, literature of the period, plastic arts, music, philosophy/religion, social science (which was the hard history – who defeated whom in battle). The idea was to try to draw connections. How did the Enlightenment play out in music and literature, paintings? How did the Romantic period?

    Some of the things that I took away.

    Philosophy was always ahead. The ideas of philosophers (excepting during the proliferation of ancient
    Greece when no philosopher was dominant) very shortly became the ideas of the politics and then the ordinary people. At that point I decided to concentrate in Philosophy. We are living in the age brought about by Nietzsche. I was confused when he said “God is dead” because in 1985 God was alive in America – we few other than college students knew religion was a scam.

    As a practical matter, all advances in human knowledge were done in cities. There are few cases of someone being born in obscurity in a little village and changing the world (except Jesus). Mozart, Goethe, Voltaire, Copernicus, Dostoevsky, Thomas Mann, Ibsen, Marx, Locke, etc were city dwellers.

    For most of human history, many people died at all ages. The typical biography of world historical individuals started “the third of eleven sons, of which four survived” or some such similar. People died left and right in families – how they took it I can’t imagine. It was an immutable fact of life.

  261. @Intelligent Dasein
    I am so sorry. I will say prayers for him and his family and I will continue to hope, pray, and work towards ending this madness soon.

    To perish of depression without the comforts of home, without the sacraments, locked in a little shack of hopelessness, in a society as insane and indifferent as ours, is one of the worst things I can imagine. We have turned our world into a foretaste of Hell. The loneliness and despair that it's possible to feel as a young person today simply has no means of expression.

    We have to put a stop to this.

    Agreed. This is shameful. Pandering political bosses looking for ways use this to score points, while millions of young people sit on their hands. Job interviews, graduations, projects, sports, hobbies, religious worship, friendships, dating, travel … all shut down. While our “leaders” try to embarass each other in front of their eldery supporters.

  262. @Ron Mexico
    The only part about Detroit that you got right is the shitty People Mover. Detroit even has a white mayor.

    Yeah, the “white mayor” bit was funny.

    Jack D. is an interesting character. He’s one of the resident Jews, pushing the typical agenda, but unlike most of the others, Jack’s strategy is to be the know-it-all Jew, giving you all sorts of micro-data on this, that and the other thing and generally playing rabbi for the more credulous goyim while subtly and, I must admit, rather deftly insinuating pro-Jew messaging here and there when the opportunity arises. For the most part, he comes off as less aggressively obvious than the other hasbarists at Unz.

    Interestingly, he only comments at Sailer’s blog, which also sets him apart. He appears to have calculated that Sailer’s readers, who make up 30% of the site’s traffic, according to Ron Unz, will be more receptive to his shtick than those who read the other writers–a much more Jew-skeptical crowd.

    And he is literally here all the time. 16,000 comments, so he’s a busy little fellow. Likes to tag-team with fellow conniver Art Deco. Quite the dynamic duo!

    But evidently he was so consumed with spewing out comments that he missed Mike Duggan as mayor of Motown.

    • Thanks: Pheasant
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    He does seem very well informed on disparate subjects, which many Jews are. There were a great many subjects with which one could have had an interesting conversation with Howard Stern, Allen Konigsberg, Arthur Asher Miller, Ron Jeremy or Al Goldstein. Doesn’t make any of them particularly beneficent to society.

    In my cigar smoking days I had many a pleasant hour talking to and occasionally drinking with various men I knew or strongly suspected were Jewish. A few I genuinely admired as people, some were just average schlubs trying to get by, but many were nogoodniks of one sort or another. One was bilking the Army for something or other while always having to bail his mudshark daughter out of the clink, one was an octogenarian who was fencing stolen industrial HVAC equipment, a couple owned adult book and novelty stores-“jack joints”- in several states, one was the scion of the family that owned the haberdasheries catering to the most outrageous urban demographic. These guys were right out of Central Casting. They could be amusing to talk to but one trusted them not even as far as one could throw them if at all prudent.
    , @Hebrew National

    He appears to have calculated that Sailer’s readers, who make up 30% of the site’s traffic, according to Ron Unz, will be more receptive to his shtick
     
    Can't speak for JackD but maybe he's here at iSteve because he enjoys the content? That's why I'm here, and not at Philip Giraldi or the other whack jobs.
    , @Hibernian

    those who read the other writers–a much more Jew-skeptical crowd.
     
    For which read, in many cases, cheerleaders for Hitler.
  263. Places such as Melrose Park were very safe.

  264. @nebulafox
    Rizzo was a cheap imitation of Hizzoner. I mean the real one, not the kid Richie.

    And yet: there is something to be said about organized crime preventing unorganized crime. Who better? Booze, prostitution, gambling, they'll all go on, regardless of who is in charge. But if the former consists of men who are hard, brutalized, but understand the damned basics in life and don't tolerate your standard issue child molester and related human scum, they ultimately have their place.

    Places such as Melrose Park were very safe.

  265. @Oscar Peterson

    "Founding Stock Americans wanted to stake a claim for themselves that they were better than New Americans because their ancestors got here first and were the ones responsible for the great system that we have."
     
    Just out of curiosity, what is your evidence for this assertion? Sounds like something that conniving little half-Jew, Richard Hofstadter, would have claimed. Much more likely that there was simply concern among intellectuals, the political class and the wealthy that the memory of the early republic was being lost and preservation would help sustain it. Preservation for Mount Vernon was already underway before the Civil War.

    Most people couldn't travel for touristic purposes until the 20th century, because the transportation network wouldn't support it and they didn't have the disposable income, so there is no reason to think that it was simply a matter of "not caring." And the capital available from the wealthy of the post-Civil War industrial/commercial magnates made preservation a much more viable affair in the late 19th and early 20th century even before the government got involved.

    Preservation is largely a 20th century phenomenon anyway. The National Trust in the UK is a 20th century initiative (started in 1895 and given powers under law in 1907.).

    For example, the fund raising for the acquisition of Monticello had an expressly anti-Semitic angle, with false stories spread that the Levy’s had cheated Jefferson’s heirs out of the place (even though the opposite was true). In one widely printed version, they had Uriah Levy speaking in fake Yiddish dialect (” I vud not zell it to you for five tousant tolers, even!”) even though he was Sephardic and his ancestors had arrived in New Amsterdam even before the British.

    • Replies: @snorlax

    In one widely printed version, they had Uriah Levy speaking in fake Yiddish dialect (” I vud not zell it to you for five tousant tolers, even!”) even though he was Sephardic
     
    Oh my God, it's almost like when someone called a Korean person Chinese and then praced an older fol flied lice. Quick, tell me, was anyone's hair touched?

    The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Foundation purchased Monticello from Jefferson Levy for $500,000 (back then, that was a lot of money) in 1923.

    Who was the National Director of the Thomas Jefferson Memorial Foundation? One Theodore Fred Kuper. Who was Theodore Fred Kuper?


    Theodore Fred Kuper (b. 1886) was a Russian-Jewish immigrant to the United States who became a leader in the preservationist movement that saved Thomas Jefferson's home Monticello and an important player in the administration of New York City's public schools and city college system.
     
    And what horrible oppressions were visited upon poor Jefferson Levy by the eeevul WASPs?

    Jefferson Monroe Levy (April 16, 1852 – March 6, 1924) was a three-term U.S. Congressman from New York, a leader of the New York Democratic Party, and a renowned real estate and stock speculator.
     
    What horrors will the eeevul WASPs inflict on him next?

    Levy was involved with the American Boy Scouts. He resigned from the board along with William Randolph Hearst over poor fundraising actions in 1910.

    In 1894 Levy became a member of the New York State Society of the Sons of the American Revolution. He was assigned national membership number 4539 and state society number 439.
     

    Oh the humanity.

    Your litanies of trivial, century or centuries-old and in any case fictional or semi-fictional grievances (one might call them blood libels) against the eeevul WASPs are neither effective nor attractive as an argumentative strategy.

    This particular example you chose is ironic since it lends itself to going with honey instead of vinegar. Messrs. Kuper and Levy sound like they were each a great credit to the Jewish people.

    You would do well to remember Christ's (rather obvious) teaching that you should do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If you do not like litanies of fictional or semi-fictional historical grievances about how da Joos did 9/11, the USS Liberty bombing, the Russian Revolution and the Islamic conquest of Spain, then please kindly refrain from the equivalent.

    For example, I am very sympathetic to you when I see you being unfairly ganged up on, as in this thread. I had all planned out in my head a spirited and quite eloquent philo-Semitic defense of you in response to AnotherDad, but it probably won't see the light of day because I've used up all the time and motivation I want to spend right now responding to your choosing to insult my ancestors with falsehoods.

    , @Oscar Peterson
    Even if Monticello were a good example, it would hardly substantiate your expansive allegations of Anglo-Protestant insecurity, in the context of mass immigration, as the driver for acquiring and restoring national historic sites.

    But it's not a good example anyway.

    The campaign against the private ownership of Monticello by Jefferson Levy was instigated by one woman, Maud Littleton, who wanted Monticello open to the general public rather than continuing as a private residence, saying, “Surely he [Levy] does not want a whole nation forever crawling at his feet for permission to worship at this shrine of our independence.”

    It was a pressure campaign to be sure, but it's interesting to observe how Jews feel quite justified in mounting pressure campaigns to get what they want but then whine if any Jew is the target of one.

    In any case, it is certainly possible that Littleton disliked Levy as a Jew, but I don't believe there is any record of her referring specifically to his Jewishness, and she did say that Levy had maintained Monticello “probably as well as such an exacting public task could be done by an individual.” Congress voted down any idea of buying Monticello in 1912. It was ultimately purchased by a foundation funded by national subscription.

    There is nothing in this story to support your thesis.

  266. @Hebrew National
    I don't think it's lack of interest so much as remoteness. You only see Williamsburg VA if you go specifically for that. Whereas plenty of Washington DC or NY sites get traffic because tourists are there for a host of other reasons.

    Another thing about Williamsburg is that it's pretty low key — an elongated commons and the streets around it with their old houses. IOW the opposite of Disneyland.

    However, Williamsburg is no more remote now than it was when its visitors peaked in 1984 (thanks to the other contributor for that). Arguably less since we had that stupid 55mph national speed limit back then, which made every place further in a sense. It’s definitely lack of interest, though it can certainly be argued that the lack of interest is an artifact of cultural trends which themselves are certainly no accident.

  267. @Steve Sailer
    Replace elevators buttons with voice recognition?

    Or make it so the security fob that grants users access to certain floors also completes their selection. For employees only authorized to visit one floor, it would eliminate an entirely unnecessary step.

    When I worked on floor 23 of a big building in Los Angeles, my security key only allowed me to visit that floor and the lobby. But I still had to press the 23 button. Why not just have it make the selection for me? And if I got on the elevator while on floor 23, there’s obviously only one place I’m going, right? I bet this would work for 90% of the people in these buildings.

    Also a good idea would be glass screens (like on a phone) instead of buttons. Uneven, broken surfaces are far harder to clean than smooth ones. The control panels should all be like iPad surfaces; but I bet it would take a million years to get them certified by whatever eldritch and venerable commission approves equipment for use in elevators.

  268. @Flip
    Chicago is much denser. Philadelphia reminds me more of Boston.

    Chicago probably has more luxury high rises than either Philly or Boston, both of which I have visited. These tend to have low household sizes per unit. Just about all of our high rise public housing projects have been torn down. Don’t know how many, if any, of those are left in either Philly or Boston. When you get away from the lake, with few exceptions, residential housing is either 1, 1 1/2 or 2 stories. There are some concentrations of 3 story buildings. Four story walkups are rare and are either one of a very few in their neighborhood or in a few concentrations very close to downtown. No NYC style 5+ story walkups that I know of, with the possible exception of something called the St. Benedict flats on the Near North side along with the adjacent yellow brick building (SBF is red brick); however I think these 2 may be fitted with elevators.

  269. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Neither a New Yorker nor a clear-eyed objective Martian observer would ever confuse NYC with Philadelphia. No disrespect to either place: they are simply not alike, except in being large Northeastern cities.

    Except that philly isn’t particularly large.

  270. @Jack D
    Demographics of Boston are nothing like Philly. When I get on mass transit in Boston it's mostly white people. First time I did that I though I had died and gone to heaven (or maybe Moscow), it had been so long that I had been on a subway with all white people.

    In Philly it's rare to see a white person on the bus or subway. Then again, good luck getting a pahkin spot in Boston. When I drive downtown in Philly to go to dinner I can usually get a spot on the street or if not, a garage is $8 or 10. Try that in Boston.

    Boston has an expressway that ends at a parking garage which is adjacent to a subway station.

  271. Anonymous[173] • Disclaimer says:
    @AnotherDad

    The Joos are 2% of the US population and even 30 years ago when visits to Williamsburg were at a peak, Grandpa Moishe had always come thru Ellis Island, except now its Great Grandpa Moishe. Maybe the Joos are now using their special mind control beams to prevent the goyim from visiting.
     
    I realize you are doing typical Jewish Talmudic lawyering here. (And maybe you actually believe it. Who knows? Jews have an amazing ability to believe their self-serving propaganda.)

    But seriously, this--very tired--trope of yours doesn't even rise to the level of "lame".

    You are always propagandizing Jewish genius, vaguely implying how impoverished America would be if not for Jews coming to rescue to build the bomb or conquer polio or something.

    Yet, it is simply an undeniable fact that Jews are even far, far more over-represented in politics and especially in media--crafting narratives the nation hears and sees--than they are in any productive endeavor, science or engineering. (Where yes, they are over-represented.)

    I'd guess maybe a 1/3 or more for national media organs (i don't mean the secretaries or janitors but who determines what gets written or writes it). And Hollyweird which seeps into everyone's home and brain like a virus ... LOL--execs, producers, directors, writers, the people who determine the content we see--it's a Jewish enterprise!.

    Just stop your bullshit. Jews have conducted a minoritarian--majorities oppressive, evil, minorities oppressed, virtuous--propaganda war against the American gentile majority for 50+ years. Own it.

    If you don't like it. Or wish it would have stopped by just giving special minority privilege to Jews but not to blacks or Mexicans--which is far as i can tell is your basic position--take that up with your tribe.

    But seriously cut this "mind control beams" stuff is pathetic. It's called "the news" and "Hollywood" And yes the propaganda does work.

    As none other than Revilo Oliver-a man who was never accused even once of philo-semitism-said himself, the problem at its core is not Jews. The problem is whites.

  272. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    According to most recent US census, the racial composition of Detroit was:

    Black or African American: 78.64%
    White: 14.55%
    Other race: 2.92.
    Etc. etc.

    Detroit is majority black. Clearly. By every metric. Come on.

    According to the most recent US census, the racial composition of Philadelphia was:
    Black or African American: 42.27%
    White: 41.19%
    Asian: 7.15%
    Other race: 5.94%
    Two or more races: 3.03%

    And remember, that was most recent census, (2010). If Philly was majority black then, its clearly so right now and the 2020 Census will bear this out. Would be a safe estimate that Philly is currently around 45% black and 35-38% white, with the number continually decreasing with each passing decade.

    After all, why would any sensible white stay in the city if they can live in the suburbs?

    Come on.

    You’ve confused plurality (A group having the largest population compared to other groups) with majority. I didn’t deny that Detroit was majority Black. (I used the word each to refer to two races, not two cities.) Your numerical claims, which I accept as reasonable, do not amount to a Black majority (over 50.0001%) in either 2010 or 2020, in Philly, although I’d agree that it’s certainly possible in the future.

    Majority and plurality are only equivalent in the special case where there are only 2 groups into which a population is divided, 2 political candidates running for an office, etc.

    I admit that the 45% figure for both Blacks and Whites in Philly was an off the top of my head memory from something I read about one of their last 2 mayoral elections. It’s not far from your 2010 census figure. The 2010 census shows a Black plurality.

    As to your last sentence, there are many reasons people live in the city. As society collapses, they don’t seem so good as they once did.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    The "each" was definitely not clear, not by a long shot. As 78% is definitely a majority by anyone's reckoning.

    Honestly can't think of a reason why any self respecting white person would want to live in the city on a long term basis. Cities are not conducive to family formation, don't provide quality public school education, offer little in the way of overall safety from violent crime, and, of course do not offer much in the way of detached housing with ample land for back and front yards. And of course urban centers with high populations as shown by the examples of NY, PHIL, DET, and New Orleans are prone to outbreaks of viruses such as COVID-19. Most tend to be densely populated within little amount of land.

    An ideal sized town would have it the opposite way, with a large amount of land for a just right amount of population. Malibu comes to mind, as its about 15k in population for about 20 square miles. Just right size, give or take a few thousand.

    On the subject of Detroit, HOF DET RF Al Kaline passed away Monday. With all the craziness going on its easy to forget a legend such as Al Kaline, and admittedly his OBP was fairly anemic at .376. Bill James perhaps would not have hesitated to put the nixay on his induction into Hall of Fame-ay, but, as he was grandfathered in by the archaic variables of the time, (e.g. youngest to win a Batting Title at age 20, and 3,007 H), one could grant some leniency in Al Kaline's case.

    Rest in Peace, Al. You certainly deserved it.

    One class act that doesn't come along every day in MLB.

    Al Kaline

  273. @nebulafox
    Rizzo was a cheap imitation of Hizzoner. I mean the real one, not the kid Richie.

    And yet: there is something to be said about organized crime preventing unorganized crime. Who better? Booze, prostitution, gambling, they'll all go on, regardless of who is in charge. But if the former consists of men who are hard, brutalized, but understand the damned basics in life and don't tolerate your standard issue child molester and related human scum, they ultimately have their place.

    Frank Rizzo was nothing like Mayor Daley, a machine politician. Rizzo was first and foremost a cop who won election inspite of the entrenched Democrat party machine. Rizzo never really controlled the city the way Daley controlled everything in Chicago.

  274. @Jack D

    Philly, on the other hand, is totally ghetto.
     
    I assume you haven't been to Philadelphia in many decades, if ever? Philly certainly does have a large black population but it's not like Detroit at all. It has a white mayor. It has gentrified areas, major universities and hospitals, a downtown business district, museums and other tourist attractions, a (formerly) thriving restaurant and bar scene, newly built skyscrapers and residential new construction. It's main train station is (was) heavily used and is not an abandoned ruin like Detroit's. It's more like Chicago than Detroit.

    Detroit’s downtown core has been getting better in the post-Great Recession era-there are now tons of businesses and residential complexes and general life you would have never seen in 2012. The midtown around WSU got some spillover gains from the downtown revitalization, too.

    But everything outside of that is still a no-go zone, and downtown apartments have Brazilian-level security. Think the Badlands or Chicago’s Southside, but in Detroit, it covers most of the city area rather than being a pocket.

    • Replies: @Hebrew National
    Interesting. I'd like to visit the areas you mentioned — on Google Streetview for now. So could you give me a few good streets to start with?
  275. @Kylie
    Following your advice given in an earlier comment, I increased the humidity in my house from 42% to 50+%. It's made a huge difference in my quality of life. (I have chronic sinusitis and respiratory allergies.) I'm breathing more freely and my nose no longer runs constantly.

    Your advice is much appreciated. Many thanks.

    It is madness that the one thing everyone can do to improve respiratory health (humidify indoor spaces) is virtually never talked about.

    https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10.1146/annurev-virology-012420-022445

    Every other useful tidbit also gathers official opposition, from masks to travel bans to Hydroxychloroquine.

    Even the usual things that fight colds — vitamin C and Zinc, are hardly talked about.

    It is asinine that now we will credit the shutdown of the economy — rather than the turn of the seasons — for the reduction in Coronavirus, so we have to keep the economy at depression levels indefinitely.

    The winners will be the ones who violate social distancing bans and get on with their lives rather than commit Hari-Kiri.

    • Agree: Kylie
  276. @SFG
    Gotta say, the Holocaust museum plopped down on the national mall was one giant power f.u. from the Jews to America’s founding stock WASPs who actually created and built the nation.

    I get that it's a bit out of place (and I'd rather see a Museum of the American Jewish Experience talking about science, industry (ok, finance), and the arts, with dioramas of tenements and suburban houses and a shop that serves pastrami sandwiches), but how is that an f.u to the Founders? Germany, maybe, but the Founders? Does the Holocaust Museum blame George Washington for Auschwitz?

    Most histories of the Jews I've read are pretty friendly to the USA.

    Why is it in the US then? Is there ever going to be a Great Terror Museum, A Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution Museum, A Killing Fields Museum, An Ottomans killing Armenians Museum here in the US capital, of course not, the question answers itself.

    • Agree: Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    • Replies: @SFG
    Because there are Jews in America, and this is what the Jewish cultural leaders think spreads 'Jewish culture'. Forget the polio vaccine, relativity, and pastrami sandwiches...no, let's talk about the time everyone got killed. Ugh.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    About time someone asked the question. WHY exactly is a Holocaust Museum in the US? What is it doing in the US, period. It doesn't belong here. America didn't participate in the Holocaust, and it wasn't responsible for killing innocent victims during WW2. It doesn't add up, it doesn't make sense.

    Unless its like, well, each ethnic has to have something to boost their pride. For the Irish, it's St. Paddy's Day. For the Italians, it's Columbus Day.

    For the Jews its having a Holocaust Museum because subconsciously and psychologically especially, they revel in and take pride in being a victim.

    Imagine being part of an ethny who's entire existence is to proclaim itself to be victim and take pride in that.

    If that's not ultimate beta behavior, what is?

    Have to say, I'm thinking that I owe Nietzsche an apology. He was right as far as a group of slaves overtaking the strong. It's just that he fixed the onus on Christianity, when it should've gone on anther faith.

    It's one thing for the strong to be overtaken by someone who's stronger than they are. But to be overtaken by a group of victims, and one that is proud to be KNOWN the entire world over as victims per se, which permeates everything they do, and trumps every single accomplishment and achievement, does not deserve respect.

    Einstein? Remember, he survived the Purge in Nazi Germany.

    Uncle Morrie and Aunt Sadie? Remember, their relatives back in the old country were turned into lampshades.

    Billy Wilder? Sigmund Freud? Remember, they both had to flee Austria from Hitler.

    At best, victims deserve pity. At worst they deserve contempt. To be known for endless bellyaching, cry babying, century after century, boo hoo hoo, without ever attempting to collectively let the whole victimhood thing go, is asinine. It's disgusting. Certainly not the mark of a well adjusted normal individual much less of a well adjusted, balanced, ethnic group.

    It's time to turn the page already. We're nearly into a quarter of the 21st century. Let it go already.

    Suppose in Israel they build a monument to all the Palestinians who died between 1967-2019? And display it in the official government house? Make it the largest building in all of Israel? How would that go over? Or would they turn around and claim that they're being picked on once again.

    Holy Moses.

  277. @Hail
    Thank you, PiltdownMan. Though the link doesn't point to the story, rather to an "All Corona, All The Time" live-ticker, I was able to locate the study elsewhere.

    (Search for "Vorläufiges Ergebnis und Schlussfolgerungen der COVID-19 Case-Cluster-Study (Gemeinde Gangelt)Prof. Dr. Hendrik Streeck (Institut für Virologie)...")

    Summary: The study was carried out in Gangelt, one of Germany's towns with among the highest rates of coronavirus patients; i.e., this town is of interest because it is an outlier at the high end, More info would be of interest on local circumstances; was there a nursing-home cluster?

    Why Gangelt? The town supposedly had a mass spreading event on Feb. 24 or 25, at a Carnival parade.

    The town of Gangelt (pop.: 12,500) is in the district Kreis Heinsberg (pop: 254,000). There were 47 deaths in the district as of yesterday, 900 corona-positive full-recoveries, and 529 corona-positives still showing symptoms.

    In a sample of people from the town, evidence was found that 16% had had definite contact with the virus, of whom 2% showed current 'positives' and 14% showed evidence of a past 'positive' and now had immunity from this strain of virus (which is how some news outlets are reporting the finding; "14% Immune! A CoronaReligion miracle! Just in time for Easter! /Editor's note: 'Easter' was a former holiday under the old religion that preceded the Corona Religion."). The remaining 84% didn't show signs of contact with the virus. Not sure what the Type I or Type II errors are.

    The big deal here is that this new study implies the district in question had something in the tens of thousands of other corona-positives who never showed symptoms and were never tested, again corroborating the figures previously found and estimated that this coronavirus is asymptomatic in 90% of cases, maybe more. That's fort-seven deaths of maybe twenty- or thirty-thousand (implied) corona-positives in the district.

    The finding gives a snapshot of an embryonic stage of the much-talked-about "herd immunity," just as always develops with every flu virus, something usually only of interest to specialists.

    The state's 47 deaths will probably rise to 60, maybe 70 deaths, if remaining patients die at the same rate as before. Deaths at ~65 out of 254,000 residents is ~25 deaths per 100k total population, many of which were probably "died with" and not "died from."

    How many corona-positives were/are there in the district of Kreis Heinsberg? If the district as a whoe has half Gangelt's 16% corona-positive rate, that's an implied ca.20,500 corona-positives in the district, meaning the death rate in one of Germany's worst-hit places has a True Fatality Rate of 0.23%, likely rising to 0.30% when remaining patients die. However, there is a big caveat. The just-calculated figure 0.2%–0.3% must be revised downward to correct for the tricky "deaths with vs. deaths from" problem.

    If Germany's corona-positive deaths follow Sweden's, where it is reported that two-thirds are deathbed-patients -- i.e., "deaths with" and not "deaths from" -- The 'True Corona Fatality Rate' in this community in Germany is the ballpark 0f 0.08% (0.067% to 0.1%); on the other hand, if local circumstances push "deaths with" higher, up to the Italian figure of 88%, we're down to ca. 0.02% to 0.04% as the True Corona Fatality Rate.

    So these derivable estimates from the Gangelt study mean a True Corona Fatality Rate of 0.02% to 0.08%, which is in line with Dr. Ioannidis' estimates using US data, and the French team's findings published about March 20, and the study by Dr. John Lee in the UK of late March, and others, who all estimated a similar true fatality rate, almost all appear confident that final mortality will be <0.1% of corona-positives.

    If you don't like to get tangled up in "deaths with vs. deaths from," one can stick with the reliable Total Deaths of All Causes data and see if you can observe a rise. Kreis Heinsberg's expected deaths in normal conditions for March and April are something about 450 to 500. Corona-positive deaths: 47 so far; of which are "deaths from," unknown.

    Many thanks for spotting the out-of-date link, and for finding the correct study—not to mention giving credit beyond what is due, given the bum link I posted.

    The details in your comment are very interesting. I wonder if the Stanford study Mr. Sailer posted yesterday will lead to a similar conclusion. The really interesting speculation is, of course, whether these studies, which normally be expected to have some effect on the public health response and lockdown, will get ignored, or worse, politicized, simply because the President might highlight their existence in an aside in some press conference in the coming days.

    As we’ve seen, dispassionate wait-and-see journalism is cast aside the second anything is uttered by the President; as in the case of the hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin cocktail many doctors around the world are trying on an empirical basis, along with other heuristic medical approaches. As is always the norm in an epidemic involving a new disease.

  278. @Hibernian
    You've confused plurality (A group having the largest population compared to other groups) with majority. I didn't deny that Detroit was majority Black. (I used the word each to refer to two races, not two cities.) Your numerical claims, which I accept as reasonable, do not amount to a Black majority (over 50.0001%) in either 2010 or 2020, in Philly, although I'd agree that it's certainly possible in the future.

    Majority and plurality are only equivalent in the special case where there are only 2 groups into which a population is divided, 2 political candidates running for an office, etc.

    I admit that the 45% figure for both Blacks and Whites in Philly was an off the top of my head memory from something I read about one of their last 2 mayoral elections. It's not far from your 2010 census figure. The 2010 census shows a Black plurality.

    As to your last sentence, there are many reasons people live in the city. As society collapses, they don't seem so good as they once did.

    The “each” was definitely not clear, not by a long shot. As 78% is definitely a majority by anyone’s reckoning.

    Honestly can’t think of a reason why any self respecting white person would want to live in the city on a long term basis. Cities are not conducive to family formation, don’t provide quality public school education, offer little in the way of overall safety from violent crime, and, of course do not offer much in the way of detached housing with ample land for back and front yards. And of course urban centers with high populations as shown by the examples of NY, PHIL, DET, and New Orleans are prone to outbreaks of viruses such as COVID-19. Most tend to be densely populated within little amount of land.

    An ideal sized town would have it the opposite way, with a large amount of land for a just right amount of population. Malibu comes to mind, as its about 15k in population for about 20 square miles. Just right size, give or take a few thousand.

    On the subject of Detroit, HOF DET RF Al Kaline passed away Monday. With all the craziness going on its easy to forget a legend such as Al Kaline, and admittedly his OBP was fairly anemic at .376. Bill James perhaps would not have hesitated to put the nixay on his induction into Hall of Fame-ay, but, as he was grandfathered in by the archaic variables of the time, (e.g. youngest to win a Batting Title at age 20, and 3,007 H), one could grant some leniency in Al Kaline’s case.

    Rest in Peace, Al. You certainly deserved it.

    One class act that doesn’t come along every day in MLB.

    Al Kaline

    • Replies: @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Al Kaline is obviously worthy of the Hall of Fame.

    http://www.hallofstats.com/player/kalinal01

    And I'm pretty sure James agrees, going so far as to say Kaline was not far off from Yastrzemski, who's regarded universally as a solid Hall of Famer.
  279. @syonredux
    It all depends on your degree of fondness for Georgian architecture......For HP Lovecraft (a true aficionado), it was a sublunary approximation of paradise:


    https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7156/6544604175_3583a460ec_b.jpg


    http://s3.amazonaws.com/mtv-main-assets/files/resources/large_house-of-burgesses-677.jpg

    https://jimmellen.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/small-capital-picture.jpg

    https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/colonial-williamsburg-court-house-todd-hostetter.jpg

    Yes, to me Georgian architecture is heaven on earth.

  280. @snorlax
    The outbreak in the NYC area started and to a lesser extent remains most widespread among Orthodox Jews, who were then the Patient Zeros in several other states (e.g. here in Massachusetts). There are relatively few Orthodox Jews, skiers and Tom Hankses in Philly. (Although one of the latter did have an Oscar-winning star turn in Philadelphia).

    The outbreak in the NYC area started and to a lesser extent remains most widespread among Orthodox Jews, who were then the Patient Zeros in several other states (e.g. here in Massachusetts). There are relatively few Orthodox Jews, skiers and Tom Hankses in Philly.

    You will never in a million years guess what community started the spread around Philadelphia and who lives in some of the hardest hit areas (Lower Merion, Overbrook, Cheltenham, Abington) where over 0.5% are already infected.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Blacks. That's the one common variable in all of them. Or else Chinese.
  281. Anonymous[173] • Disclaimer says:
    @Oscar Peterson
    Yeah, the "white mayor" bit was funny.

    Jack D. is an interesting character. He's one of the resident Jews, pushing the typical agenda, but unlike most of the others, Jack's strategy is to be the know-it-all Jew, giving you all sorts of micro-data on this, that and the other thing and generally playing rabbi for the more credulous goyim while subtly and, I must admit, rather deftly insinuating pro-Jew messaging here and there when the opportunity arises. For the most part, he comes off as less aggressively obvious than the other hasbarists at Unz.

    Interestingly, he only comments at Sailer's blog, which also sets him apart. He appears to have calculated that Sailer's readers, who make up 30% of the site's traffic, according to Ron Unz, will be more receptive to his shtick than those who read the other writers--a much more Jew-skeptical crowd.

    And he is literally here all the time. 16,000 comments, so he's a busy little fellow. Likes to tag-team with fellow conniver Art Deco. Quite the dynamic duo!

    But evidently he was so consumed with spewing out comments that he missed Mike Duggan as mayor of Motown.

    He does seem very well informed on disparate subjects, which many Jews are. There were a great many subjects with which one could have had an interesting conversation with Howard Stern, Allen Konigsberg, Arthur Asher Miller, Ron Jeremy or Al Goldstein. Doesn’t make any of them particularly beneficent to society.

    In my cigar smoking days I had many a pleasant hour talking to and occasionally drinking with various men I knew or strongly suspected were Jewish. A few I genuinely admired as people, some were just average schlubs trying to get by, but many were nogoodniks of one sort or another. One was bilking the Army for something or other while always having to bail his mudshark daughter out of the clink, one was an octogenarian who was fencing stolen industrial HVAC equipment, a couple owned adult book and novelty stores-“jack joints”- in several states, one was the scion of the family that owned the haberdasheries catering to the most outrageous urban demographic. These guys were right out of Central Casting. They could be amusing to talk to but one trusted them not even as far as one could throw them if at all prudent.

    • Thanks: Pheasant
    • Replies: @Wielgus
    Were the nogoodniks openly talking about their nogoodnikery?
    In this current moment, which hopefully will not last, people are informing on neighbours for taking a second walk outdoors during lockdown. Did these characters talk about stuff that they could actually be indicted for, presuming you would not discuss it with law enforcement?
  282. @Anon
    Blaming someone from the other side of the planet, and who wouldn't be bothered to retort, is stupid. Why does your country have a government, if three bateaters from the antipodes dictate your health and the hours you can walk out of your homes? Even if China disappears tomorrow, isn't there another billion of cow pee drinkers, and another billion of bushmeat eaters?

    Why exactly do you want the wet markets to remain open? Cow pee and bush meat aren’t causing the major viruses of the last two decades. Camel meat, yes. But for the most part they’re coming from China. The UN ought to demand that they close them now, since can hardly expect the US to withdraw economic activity from the country and bring the outsourced jobs back to the US (particularly those jobs that are crucial in the pharmaceutical industry, could start there).

  283. @t
    Here's a map of Covid cases by zip code in Philadelphia(the green one at the bottom of the page)
    https://www.phila.gov/programs/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/testing-and-data/

    I don't know much about the demographic geography of Philadelphia but some quick research shows that the ZIPs with the lowest cases level, 19137 and 19134, are working to lower middle class white/hispanic areas while the hardest hit zip codes like 19124 and 19141 are black.

    The least impact Philly Zip, 19137, is Bridesburg, a heavily Polish neighborhood.

    The other low rate ones nearby are 19134, which is Kensington and is Irish/Puerto Rican, and a whole series of Puerto Rican neighborhoods, and then 19106 (Society Hill) and 19118 (Chestnut Hill), which are the VERY rich formerly all Anglo neighborhoods.

    19123, 19107 in Center City is Chinatown, heavily impacted. The remaining heavy impact areas are mostly black except 19116 and 19115, which make up Bustleton and Somerton and are a mix of right leaning white professionals and newer Indian and Russian immigrants.

  284. Anon[160] • Disclaimer says:

    I forgot to mention in an earlier comment that Philly’s hospitals are probably better on average. UPenn runs a lot of the hospitals in the city. Jefferson and Cooper Union are prestigious too. I guess there’s famous and quality hospitals in NYC too, but the word here in Philadelphia has always been that it’s a (relatively) good place to get sick or injured.

  285. @BigJimSportCamper
    Why is there a Holocaust museum in America? Where were the camps here?

    Haven’t you see The Plot Against America TM on HBO? The camps were in Georgia.

    • LOL: Unladen Swallow
  286. @Jack D
    Demographics of Boston are nothing like Philly. When I get on mass transit in Boston it's mostly white people. First time I did that I though I had died and gone to heaven (or maybe Moscow), it had been so long that I had been on a subway with all white people.

    In Philly it's rare to see a white person on the bus or subway. Then again, good luck getting a pahkin spot in Boston. When I drive downtown in Philly to go to dinner I can usually get a spot on the street or if not, a garage is $8 or 10. Try that in Boston.

    Sure. I did say it felt like a cross between Newark & Boston for demographics. So Blacks predominate in many parts plus there’s some tough White working class football fans who come in from the burbs.

  287. @Jack D
    For example, the fund raising for the acquisition of Monticello had an expressly anti-Semitic angle, with false stories spread that the Levy's had cheated Jefferson's heirs out of the place (even though the opposite was true). In one widely printed version, they had Uriah Levy speaking in fake Yiddish dialect (" I vud not zell it to you for five tousant tolers, even!") even though he was Sephardic and his ancestors had arrived in New Amsterdam even before the British.

    In one widely printed version, they had Uriah Levy speaking in fake Yiddish dialect (” I vud not zell it to you for five tousant tolers, even!”) even though he was Sephardic

    Oh my God, it’s almost like when someone called a Korean person Chinese and then praced an older fol flied lice. Quick, tell me, was anyone’s hair touched?

    The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Foundation purchased Monticello from Jefferson Levy for $500,000 (back then, that was a lot of money) in 1923.

    Who was the National Director of the Thomas Jefferson Memorial Foundation? One Theodore Fred Kuper. Who was Theodore Fred Kuper?

    Theodore Fred Kuper (b. 1886) was a Russian-Jewish immigrant to the United States who became a leader in the preservationist movement that saved Thomas Jefferson’s home Monticello and an important player in the administration of New York City’s public schools and city college system.

    And what horrible oppressions were visited upon poor Jefferson Levy by the eeevul WASPs?

    Jefferson Monroe Levy (April 16, 1852 – March 6, 1924) was a three-term U.S. Congressman from New York, a leader of the New York Democratic Party, and a renowned real estate and stock speculator.

    What horrors will the eeevul WASPs inflict on him next?

    Levy was involved with the American Boy Scouts. He resigned from the board along with William Randolph Hearst over poor fundraising actions in 1910.

    In 1894 Levy became a member of the New York State Society of the Sons of the American Revolution. He was assigned national membership number 4539 and state society number 439.

    Oh the humanity.

    Your litanies of trivial, century or centuries-old and in any case fictional or semi-fictional grievances (one might call them blood libels) against the eeevul WASPs are neither effective nor attractive as an argumentative strategy.

    This particular example you chose is ironic since it lends itself to going with honey instead of vinegar. Messrs. Kuper and Levy sound like they were each a great credit to the Jewish people.

    You would do well to remember Christ’s (rather obvious) teaching that you should do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If you do not like litanies of fictional or semi-fictional historical grievances about how da Joos did 9/11, the USS Liberty bombing, the Russian Revolution and the Islamic conquest of Spain, then please kindly refrain from the equivalent.

    For example, I am very sympathetic to you when I see you being unfairly ganged up on, as in this thread. I had all planned out in my head a spirited and quite eloquent philo-Semitic defense of you in response to AnotherDad, but it probably won’t see the light of day because I’ve used up all the time and motivation I want to spend right now responding to your choosing to insult my ancestors with falsehoods.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    someone called a Korean person Chinese
     
    This happens with some regularity around here. ;)
    , @Hibernian

    In one widely printed version, they had Uriah Levy speaking in fake Yiddish dialect (” I vud not zell it to you for five tousant tolers, even!”) even though he was Sephardic...
     
    Like Ben Shapiro's impression of Bernie Sanders. I know, it's not too far off the mark for Sanders.
    , @Jack D
    Someone asked me for proof that the revival of interest in American historic structures had anti-immigrant overtones and I gave them evidence. If you don't like that evidence, that's your problem. I agree with you that the Levy's were a great and distinguished family who were present in America from the earliest colonial days. Levy's membership in the Sons of the American Revolution was well deserved. BUT this did not stop others from expressing anti-Semitic sentiments toward the family and giving them comic Yiddish accents. I didn't make that up. That's part of history too. One does not negate the other.

    America has been great to the Jews, maybe the greatest refuge they have found since the fall of Judea. Most Americans are not anti-Semitic. But a small minority are. That % waxes and wanes. From the late 19th century until the 1940s, anti-Semitism was in the ascendancy as the large # of recent and impoverished E. European Jewish immigrants made a bad impression on many. Previously Jews in America were a small tribe and like the Levy's even somewhat aristocratic, but now huddled masses arrived by the millions and spoiled the brand. There were city clubs that had [Sephardic or German] Jewish founders but which no longer accepted Jewish members. Ivy League schools made a concerted effort to reduce Jewish enrollment. After the Holocaust, public anti-Semitism became déclassé (not to mention illegal - no more "restricted" hotels). I for one am happy to keep it that way.
  288. @Jack D
    The Holocaust Museum is well placed in our capital city because it serves a reminder of what can happen if we discard our Constitutional framework and allow ourselves to be ruled by decree. Even if we are undergoing some national crisis, allowing our elected leaders to seize unlimited power is never a good idea - it can lead to great tragedy. Leaders who have tasted absolute power are like tigers who have tasted human blood - they will never again be content with anything less and the only "cure" is to destroy them. Right now is a particularly good time to be reminded that we should never let our precious freedoms be taken away from us - our very lives may depend on it someday. Maybe at first you don't care, because YOUR job has not been taken away, YOU are not the one who has been arrested or fined. Just wait. Your turn will come.

    The Holocaust Museum is not there for the Jews. Jews have plenty of reminders about the Holocaust and don't need to visit Washington to know what happened. It's there for everyone else. Disregard its lessons at your peril. Now that white people are about to become a minority in America, this means YOU. You think, "I am no middle man minority. I am of the Founding Stock in my own great nation. I am the man with the riding crop and the Luger, not the poor shnook in the cattle car. This story means nothing to me." You are wrong.

    The Holocaust Museum is well placed in our capital city because it serves a reminder of what can happen if we discard our Constitutional framework and allow ourselves to be ruled by decree.

    Wouldn’t the Rape of Nanking Museum serve just as good of an example? Of what happens when you turn the country over to a military-industrial complex?

    The Holocaust Museum is not there for the Jews.

    You are right – I think it serves as a great reminder to the rest of us non-Jews exactly who the most favored (the most victimest) people are in the United States. Their (your) suffering is all our suffering, and we best remember that (or else!).

    Next, we should construct the Armenian Genocide Museum in D.C. And after that, for the truly exotic, the Museum of Dzungar Genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_genocide

    We can keep going with these “reminders” until 95% of D.C. landmass is filled with memorials to atrocities that Americans did not commit and whose victims were not Americans. Because America is the world and the world is America! No borders!

    • Agree: William Badwhite
    • Replies: @peterike

    You are right – I think it serves as a great reminder to the rest of us non-Jews exactly who the most favored (the most victimest) people are in the United States. Their (your) suffering is all our suffering, and we best remember that (or else!).
     
    Let's not forget that the D.C. holocaust museum is merely one. There are dozens and dozens of museums and memorials in the United States. Nine separate ones in New York State alone.

    The international list is even crazier. You can find Holocaustiana in Bulgaria, the Philippines, Suriname and Taiwan, to name a very few. France alone has dozens.
  289. @snorlax

    In one widely printed version, they had Uriah Levy speaking in fake Yiddish dialect (” I vud not zell it to you for five tousant tolers, even!”) even though he was Sephardic
     
    Oh my God, it's almost like when someone called a Korean person Chinese and then praced an older fol flied lice. Quick, tell me, was anyone's hair touched?

    The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Foundation purchased Monticello from Jefferson Levy for $500,000 (back then, that was a lot of money) in 1923.

    Who was the National Director of the Thomas Jefferson Memorial Foundation? One Theodore Fred Kuper. Who was Theodore Fred Kuper?


    Theodore Fred Kuper (b. 1886) was a Russian-Jewish immigrant to the United States who became a leader in the preservationist movement that saved Thomas Jefferson's home Monticello and an important player in the administration of New York City's public schools and city college system.
     
    And what horrible oppressions were visited upon poor Jefferson Levy by the eeevul WASPs?

    Jefferson Monroe Levy (April 16, 1852 – March 6, 1924) was a three-term U.S. Congressman from New York, a leader of the New York Democratic Party, and a renowned real estate and stock speculator.
     
    What horrors will the eeevul WASPs inflict on him next?

    Levy was involved with the American Boy Scouts. He resigned from the board along with William Randolph Hearst over poor fundraising actions in 1910.

    In 1894 Levy became a member of the New York State Society of the Sons of the American Revolution. He was assigned national membership number 4539 and state society number 439.
     

    Oh the humanity.

    Your litanies of trivial, century or centuries-old and in any case fictional or semi-fictional grievances (one might call them blood libels) against the eeevul WASPs are neither effective nor attractive as an argumentative strategy.

    This particular example you chose is ironic since it lends itself to going with honey instead of vinegar. Messrs. Kuper and Levy sound like they were each a great credit to the Jewish people.

    You would do well to remember Christ's (rather obvious) teaching that you should do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If you do not like litanies of fictional or semi-fictional historical grievances about how da Joos did 9/11, the USS Liberty bombing, the Russian Revolution and the Islamic conquest of Spain, then please kindly refrain from the equivalent.

    For example, I am very sympathetic to you when I see you being unfairly ganged up on, as in this thread. I had all planned out in my head a spirited and quite eloquent philo-Semitic defense of you in response to AnotherDad, but it probably won't see the light of day because I've used up all the time and motivation I want to spend right now responding to your choosing to insult my ancestors with falsehoods.

    someone called a Korean person Chinese

    This happens with some regularity around here. 😉

    • LOL: JMcG
  290. @AnotherDad

    If “colonial” Williamsburg dies its because it sucks ass.

    I had to go there on field trips. Actors churning butter and other nonsense.
     
    I will say this comment gets at something quite real.

    I think the biggest thing here is the reigning minoritarian ideology basically pissing all over the actually American founding and founding stock as evil slave holding, native killing oppressors, in favor of their "nation of immigrants" narrative which gives Jews pride of place. And then immigration itself creating a population that actually is not descended from the founders.

    Whites really have to chose a counter narrative where their ancestors--or their neighbor's ancestors--founding work actually matters.

    But the other aspect is certainly what you say. To a "modern" brain pickled in Hollyweird action and constantly checking your cell phone feed ... all these old buildings and "history stuff" is ... BORING.

    To a “modern” brain pickled in Hollyweird action and constantly checking your cell phone feed … all these old buildings and “history stuff” is … BORING.

    Nah. I got dragged to a lot of eastern historical sites – Fort Stanwix, Fort Ticonderoga, Sturbridge Village, etc. as a kid in the 70s. They were boring to me, too. It’s only as an adult you really appreciate architecture and history unless there’s some kid attention-grabber like a ride on a steam train or something like the Arms and Armor collection at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Some old lady in a costume calling you mistress and showing you how candles are made is dull stuff to a ten year old.

  291. @Oscar Peterson
    Yeah, the "white mayor" bit was funny.

    Jack D. is an interesting character. He's one of the resident Jews, pushing the typical agenda, but unlike most of the others, Jack's strategy is to be the know-it-all Jew, giving you all sorts of micro-data on this, that and the other thing and generally playing rabbi for the more credulous goyim while subtly and, I must admit, rather deftly insinuating pro-Jew messaging here and there when the opportunity arises. For the most part, he comes off as less aggressively obvious than the other hasbarists at Unz.

    Interestingly, he only comments at Sailer's blog, which also sets him apart. He appears to have calculated that Sailer's readers, who make up 30% of the site's traffic, according to Ron Unz, will be more receptive to his shtick than those who read the other writers--a much more Jew-skeptical crowd.

    And he is literally here all the time. 16,000 comments, so he's a busy little fellow. Likes to tag-team with fellow conniver Art Deco. Quite the dynamic duo!

    But evidently he was so consumed with spewing out comments that he missed Mike Duggan as mayor of Motown.

    He appears to have calculated that Sailer’s readers, who make up 30% of the site’s traffic, according to Ron Unz, will be more receptive to his shtick

    Can’t speak for JackD but maybe he’s here at iSteve because he enjoys the content? That’s why I’m here, and not at Philip Giraldi or the other whack jobs.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Nope, it's because my Hasbara contract with Mossad requires that I post only here. It's all about the shekels, baby!
    , @Oscar Peterson

    "Can’t speak for JackD"
     
    How true.
    , @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Calling Giraldi a whack job is like calling Hebrew National a decent hot dog.
  292. @Jack D
    Demographics of Boston are nothing like Philly. When I get on mass transit in Boston it's mostly white people. First time I did that I though I had died and gone to heaven (or maybe Moscow), it had been so long that I had been on a subway with all white people.

    In Philly it's rare to see a white person on the bus or subway. Then again, good luck getting a pahkin spot in Boston. When I drive downtown in Philly to go to dinner I can usually get a spot on the street or if not, a garage is $8 or 10. Try that in Boston.

    Dinner is in the evening. You come into Center City Philadelphia in the evening, and can park in a garage for $8 or $10? Are you writing from 1993?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    In Chicago you're lucky if you can park downtown during the day on a weekend for$16.00 if you're in by 9 and out by 7. This is near the edge of downtown on the Near North side.
  293. @Anonymous
    He does seem very well informed on disparate subjects, which many Jews are. There were a great many subjects with which one could have had an interesting conversation with Howard Stern, Allen Konigsberg, Arthur Asher Miller, Ron Jeremy or Al Goldstein. Doesn’t make any of them particularly beneficent to society.

    In my cigar smoking days I had many a pleasant hour talking to and occasionally drinking with various men I knew or strongly suspected were Jewish. A few I genuinely admired as people, some were just average schlubs trying to get by, but many were nogoodniks of one sort or another. One was bilking the Army for something or other while always having to bail his mudshark daughter out of the clink, one was an octogenarian who was fencing stolen industrial HVAC equipment, a couple owned adult book and novelty stores-“jack joints”- in several states, one was the scion of the family that owned the haberdasheries catering to the most outrageous urban demographic. These guys were right out of Central Casting. They could be amusing to talk to but one trusted them not even as far as one could throw them if at all prudent.

    Were the nogoodniks openly talking about their nogoodnikery?
    In this current moment, which hopefully will not last, people are informing on neighbours for taking a second walk outdoors during lockdown. Did these characters talk about stuff that they could actually be indicted for, presuming you would not discuss it with law enforcement?

  294. @anon
    Send every American under 65 a mask in the mail and have them go back to work by the end of April, if not sooner.

    Include laundering instructions for reuse.

    From here on any benefit of quarantine has passed the point of diminishing returns. More young people will die of alcoholism and suicide due to the economic fallout than elderly would be saved by maintaining the quarantine. Masks have been demonstrated effective in Asia and explain why the virus has virtually skipped over their countries while wrecking havoc on mask-esqueing Western countries.

    Perhaps 2% of Americans are already seropositive for the virus, meaning 6 million have been infection, of those it's killed 0.2%. The flu has a case fatality rate of 0.1%. It's time to move on.

    Could not agree more. Masks, social distancing and modified, reasonable quarantines of the elderly, as necessary. It’s completely retarded that we have shut down the entire nation of something much less lethal than the Spanish flu of 100 years ago.

  295. @peterike

    There is a 44 story residential tower built with Chinese money a Chinese friend of mine told me.

     

    I can assure you the plan is to market much of that tower to Chinese. I don't know how many Chinese are in Austin, but my guess is the answer is "a lot, with plenty more on the way."

    When Coronachan is over, I expect the Chinese invasion will resume its normal pace.

    A close acquaintance did a slow travel through Asia/Europe a couple years ago. At one reflection session, he casually remarked that there was a marked Chinese presence/influence everywhere he went.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    1. Chinese are a "visible minority". If there are 150,000 Poles living in London (and there are) you might not notice because they blend in with the rest of the population. But if there are 120,000 Chinese living in London, you're gonna notice.

    2. There are over 1.3 billion Chinese, which is about 50% more than the total number of white people on earth. And that's just the Chinese living in China, not counting the Chinese diaspora or all the other Asians who you might mistake for Chinese. So if even a small % of them move to or visit a European country, you're gonna notice.

    3. You're especially gonna notice if you are an older person who remembers the time when most Chinese were locked behind the Iron Curtain and didn't take European package tours and when southern European countries were much poorer and were EXPORTERS of immigrants, not importers.

    Maybe Covid has changed the future, but three months ago, I would have told you "You ain't seen nothin' yet." Out of China's 1.3 billion people "only" a couple of hundred million now have enough income to take occasional European vacations, but that % has been going up and up every year. The Chinese government was expecting that the per capita income of their people (especially in the big coastal cities) would eventually be comparable to that seen in other advanced Asian countries and there was little reason to see why that was not possible. If you take per capita numbers like Japanese ownership of foreign assets or frequency of foreign travel by HK residents and project them onto the full population of China, the #'s are enormous.

  296. @Oscar Peterson
    Yeah, the "white mayor" bit was funny.

    Jack D. is an interesting character. He's one of the resident Jews, pushing the typical agenda, but unlike most of the others, Jack's strategy is to be the know-it-all Jew, giving you all sorts of micro-data on this, that and the other thing and generally playing rabbi for the more credulous goyim while subtly and, I must admit, rather deftly insinuating pro-Jew messaging here and there when the opportunity arises. For the most part, he comes off as less aggressively obvious than the other hasbarists at Unz.

    Interestingly, he only comments at Sailer's blog, which also sets him apart. He appears to have calculated that Sailer's readers, who make up 30% of the site's traffic, according to Ron Unz, will be more receptive to his shtick than those who read the other writers--a much more Jew-skeptical crowd.

    And he is literally here all the time. 16,000 comments, so he's a busy little fellow. Likes to tag-team with fellow conniver Art Deco. Quite the dynamic duo!

    But evidently he was so consumed with spewing out comments that he missed Mike Duggan as mayor of Motown.

    those who read the other writers–a much more Jew-skeptical crowd.

    For which read, in many cases, cheerleaders for Hitler.

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson

    Me: "those who read the other writers–a much more Jew-skeptical crowd."

    You: "For which read, in many cases, cheerleaders for Hitler."
     
    But in most cases read, those who don't accept the mendacious, Jewish line on Israel and much else--for example, Jack D.'s spurious theories above about the impetus for national historic site preservation in the US.
  297. @snorlax

    In one widely printed version, they had Uriah Levy speaking in fake Yiddish dialect (” I vud not zell it to you for five tousant tolers, even!”) even though he was Sephardic
     
    Oh my God, it's almost like when someone called a Korean person Chinese and then praced an older fol flied lice. Quick, tell me, was anyone's hair touched?

    The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Foundation purchased Monticello from Jefferson Levy for $500,000 (back then, that was a lot of money) in 1923.

    Who was the National Director of the Thomas Jefferson Memorial Foundation? One Theodore Fred Kuper. Who was Theodore Fred Kuper?


    Theodore Fred Kuper (b. 1886) was a Russian-Jewish immigrant to the United States who became a leader in the preservationist movement that saved Thomas Jefferson's home Monticello and an important player in the administration of New York City's public schools and city college system.
     
    And what horrible oppressions were visited upon poor Jefferson Levy by the eeevul WASPs?

    Jefferson Monroe Levy (April 16, 1852 – March 6, 1924) was a three-term U.S. Congressman from New York, a leader of the New York Democratic Party, and a renowned real estate and stock speculator.
     
    What horrors will the eeevul WASPs inflict on him next?

    Levy was involved with the American Boy Scouts. He resigned from the board along with William Randolph Hearst over poor fundraising actions in 1910.

    In 1894 Levy became a member of the New York State Society of the Sons of the American Revolution. He was assigned national membership number 4539 and state society number 439.
     

    Oh the humanity.

    Your litanies of trivial, century or centuries-old and in any case fictional or semi-fictional grievances (one might call them blood libels) against the eeevul WASPs are neither effective nor attractive as an argumentative strategy.

    This particular example you chose is ironic since it lends itself to going with honey instead of vinegar. Messrs. Kuper and Levy sound like they were each a great credit to the Jewish people.

    You would do well to remember Christ's (rather obvious) teaching that you should do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If you do not like litanies of fictional or semi-fictional historical grievances about how da Joos did 9/11, the USS Liberty bombing, the Russian Revolution and the Islamic conquest of Spain, then please kindly refrain from the equivalent.

    For example, I am very sympathetic to you when I see you being unfairly ganged up on, as in this thread. I had all planned out in my head a spirited and quite eloquent philo-Semitic defense of you in response to AnotherDad, but it probably won't see the light of day because I've used up all the time and motivation I want to spend right now responding to your choosing to insult my ancestors with falsehoods.

    In one widely printed version, they had Uriah Levy speaking in fake Yiddish dialect (” I vud not zell it to you for five tousant tolers, even!”) even though he was Sephardic…

    Like Ben Shapiro’s impression of Bernie Sanders. I know, it’s not too far off the mark for Sanders.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Here is an article about it. The original story was published in Hartford Courant in 1897. Uriah Levy has been rechristened renamed Judah Levy.

    "American hearts have recently been harrowed," Cummings writes, "by a story of [Monticello's] purchase by Judah Levy, late Commodore in the United States navy." The story, he says, "asserts that efforts were made to hold the estate after Jefferson's death for his favorite daughter, Martha Randolph. About $3,000 was required.

    "The money was raised by patriotic Philadelphians, and entrusted to a young Virginian, a relative of Martha Randolph. He got drunk on the way to Monticello, and arrived a day too late. It is more than intimated that Captain Levy, who was a passenger in the same stage, took advantage of his drunkenness and bought the place. The appalled Virginian besought him to be merciful after his purchase, and asked him what he would take for the homestead.

    "His reply was: 'Mein frien' you are a glever feller, but you talk too much. I will take a huntret tousand tollars.'
     
    https://www.worldcat.org/wcpa/servlet/DCARead?standardNo=074320106X&standardNoType=1&excerpt=true

    Upon further reflection, the story is equal opportunity insulting. Not only are Jews portrayed as Shylocks but Christians are portrayed as drunken fools. (The story is completely fictional BTW - there was no fundraising, no young Virginian. Nothing like that ever happened.)
  298. @Hebrew National

    He appears to have calculated that Sailer’s readers, who make up 30% of the site’s traffic, according to Ron Unz, will be more receptive to his shtick
     
    Can't speak for JackD but maybe he's here at iSteve because he enjoys the content? That's why I'm here, and not at Philip Giraldi or the other whack jobs.

    Nope, it’s because my Hasbara contract with Mossad requires that I post only here. It’s all about the shekels, baby!

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
  299. @DanHessinMD
    I am looking hard at national data, and the relationship between temperature and humidity and COVID-19 is very strong and an incredibly important piece of the puzzle. It is not a 100% correlation because there are other variables, but it is a very strong correlation. We have seen that the worst hit places now are New England and Michigan while warm and humid places are hit much less severely.

    The five worst states for new COVID deaths in the last 24 hours are, in order New York, New Jersey, Michigan, Illinois and Massachusetts. Southern states, even with their poorer health care systems, poor adherence to social distancing and worse overall health, have seen better outcomes, and the difference is climate and indoor humidity.

    There is a negative (in my view) trend among some scientists to downplay correlations that are imperfect (this is why it took so long to introduce masks in America).

    But it is far better to advance pieces of the puzzle, even if they aren't the only piece. Climate is an incredibly important piece of the puzzle and awareness of the need to humidify in winter will save many lives!

    Ther is a new and important work by a team at Yale and in Zurich:

    "Seasonality of Respiratory Viral Infections"

    https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10.1146/annurev-virology-012420-022445

    The big Mardi Gras breakout in Louisiana clouded the climate correlation for a while, but the northern tier of the country now dominates in new cases. Massachusetts has arguably the best medical care in the world and yet COVID-19 deaths there yesterday exceeded that of Louisiana which lacks that medical advancement and has terrible underlying health. Florida had only 27 COVID deaths yesterday against New Jersey's 270.

    Climate, namely temperature and humidity differences, are showing strongly through all the noise, both in the nation and world-level data. Even though warm and humid places are not immune from COVID-19, colder places where indoor humidity is low are being hit FAR harder, even when their medical systems are much more advanced.

    The United States is seeing a partial respite right now from south to north, but colder climates need to be ready for a fall rebound of this virus and humidification will save thousands of lives then! With clear seasonality, there will be a race to find solutions.

    Yep – here’s me, while y’all Murkins wuz asleep

    What is your best guess about what happens when the average intraday temperature (i.e., excluding overnight) rises into the mid-20s [°C]?

    That happens about the middle of next month in NYC and DC; later in Detroit and Chicago; it happened in March for NOLA, and South FL.

    There’s a hint why there’s such emphasis of this week being ‘Hell Week‘ for NYC.

    Public authorities know they’ve made a gigantic fuckup, and are going hell-for-leather to paint an optimistic picture so that they can claim credit before the start of ‘real’ Spring weather – because once temps are routinely in the 20s[°C] it’s going to be hard to claim that the slowing is unrelated to the weather (and it’s going to be nigh impossible to keep people indoors).

  300. @AnotherDad

    I bet it’s the subway.
     
    Kudos to my fellow commenters here. A lot of people have nailed this right off the bat. There are particular issues--world travel, the Orthodox Jews--but the main thing is that NYC is simply the most dense, most "cityish" city in America. Including the only place that most people use public transport rather than their own car to get to work.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_transit_systems_by_ridership

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density


    ~~~

    A bit of historical perspective ...

    Cities are deeply *unnatural*.

    Our ancestors lived for millions of years in small tribes--no more than 100 or so before they'd split. Then after the neolithic agriculture revolution in small villages. That is the social environment we are designed for.

    But after settlement, suddenly there was this new "ecological niche" of a parasite class using force to rule over and extract from productive farmers. I.e. taxes. (And slavery, serfdom, etc.) There had to be someplace where they parked themselves with their extractive apparatus, bureaucratcy, the military force necessary to protect themselves from other parasites, and all the associated rent-seekers and other assorted hangers on. The city was born.

    (Our two richest super-zippy cities produce basically nothing Americans want, but are simply the Wall Street-Washington twin poles of parasitism living large off productive people in the vast American heartland.)

    It was only with the industrial revolution that scale in productive endeavors required city--at least small city scale for some productive activities.


    Cities have *always* been the population sinks in the best of times and the epicenters of epidemic in the worst.

    It wasn't until the late industrial revolution when we had the capability to provide clean water and effective sanitation that cities even could replicate their population.

    But even with that ... they still don't. Every year we have hundreds of thousands of smart young women with their fresh BAs flocking to the "cool places to be" cities--NY, DC, LA, the Bay Area, Seattle, Chicago, Boston--for their b.s. BA careers. And then with the expensive housing and glued to their jobs forming families late--or never at all. These cities are not just population sinks but IQ shredders.


    Ironically ... there's less need for the city than ever before! The one truly productive aspect of the city was that proximity facilitated knowledge sharing. The latest ideas in science and technology--how the world works and how to do things better. But now proximity is moot. Steve doesn't have to have us all over to the iSteve salon--for which he is very thankful! Steve can stay in his closest and we can discuss these issues on-line.

    Our ancestors lived for millions of years in small tribes–no more than 100 or so before they’d split. Then after the neolithic agriculture revolution in small villages. That is the social environment we are designed for.

    Others say it was the African southern grasslands, hunting wildebeest. I ought to disagree with both views. But we are all free to stop history at a point we like, or think we’d like. Alternatively, what do you mean “we”, paleface?

    (Our two richest super-zippy cities produce basically nothing Americans want, but are simply the Wall Street-Washington twin poles of parasitism living large off productive people in the vast American heartland.)

    Americans seem to want oil from Midland, Texas and technology from Silicon Valley, California. If you have other sources showing what the productive people of the American heartland produce more than northeastern and Californian city dwellers (who don’t produce anything — basically nothing — Americans want, as you said), please consider sharing them.

  301. @Jack D
    For example, the fund raising for the acquisition of Monticello had an expressly anti-Semitic angle, with false stories spread that the Levy's had cheated Jefferson's heirs out of the place (even though the opposite was true). In one widely printed version, they had Uriah Levy speaking in fake Yiddish dialect (" I vud not zell it to you for five tousant tolers, even!") even though he was Sephardic and his ancestors had arrived in New Amsterdam even before the British.

    Even if Monticello were a good example, it would hardly substantiate your expansive allegations of Anglo-Protestant insecurity, in the context of mass immigration, as the driver for acquiring and restoring national historic sites.

    But it’s not a good example anyway.

    The campaign against the private ownership of Monticello by Jefferson Levy was instigated by one woman, Maud Littleton, who wanted Monticello open to the general public rather than continuing as a private residence, saying, “Surely he [Levy] does not want a whole nation forever crawling at his feet for permission to worship at this shrine of our independence.”

    It was a pressure campaign to be sure, but it’s interesting to observe how Jews feel quite justified in mounting pressure campaigns to get what they want but then whine if any Jew is the target of one.

    In any case, it is certainly possible that Littleton disliked Levy as a Jew, but I don’t believe there is any record of her referring specifically to his Jewishness, and she did say that Levy had maintained Monticello “probably as well as such an exacting public task could be done by an individual.” Congress voted down any idea of buying Monticello in 1912. It was ultimately purchased by a foundation funded by national subscription.

    There is nothing in this story to support your thesis.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Unless either the Virginia or the Federal Government was willing to use the power of eminent domain, which didn't happen, Mr. Levy had every right to hold on to the property. It seems in this case it was the non-Jewish people who were involved in stereotypically Jewish behavior. Oh wait, they were "aristocrats." They were entitled.
  302. @Twinkie

    The Holocaust Museum is well placed in our capital city because it serves a reminder of what can happen if we discard our Constitutional framework and allow ourselves to be ruled by decree.
     
    Wouldn’t the Rape of Nanking Museum serve just as good of an example? Of what happens when you turn the country over to a military-industrial complex?

    The Holocaust Museum is not there for the Jews.
     
    You are right - I think it serves as a great reminder to the rest of us non-Jews exactly who the most favored (the most victimest) people are in the United States. Their (your) suffering is all our suffering, and we best remember that (or else!).

    Next, we should construct the Armenian Genocide Museum in D.C. And after that, for the truly exotic, the Museum of Dzungar Genocide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_genocide

    We can keep going with these “reminders” until 95% of D.C. landmass is filled with memorials to atrocities that Americans did not commit and whose victims were not Americans. Because America is the world and the world is America! No borders!

    You are right – I think it serves as a great reminder to the rest of us non-Jews exactly who the most favored (the most victimest) people are in the United States. Their (your) suffering is all our suffering, and we best remember that (or else!).

    Let’s not forget that the D.C. holocaust museum is merely one. There are dozens and dozens of museums and memorials in the United States. Nine separate ones in New York State alone.

    The international list is even crazier. You can find Holocaustiana in Bulgaria, the Philippines, Suriname and Taiwan, to name a very few. France alone has dozens.

  303. @Hebrew National

    He appears to have calculated that Sailer’s readers, who make up 30% of the site’s traffic, according to Ron Unz, will be more receptive to his shtick
     
    Can't speak for JackD but maybe he's here at iSteve because he enjoys the content? That's why I'm here, and not at Philip Giraldi or the other whack jobs.

    “Can’t speak for JackD”

    How true.

  304. @Hibernian

    In one widely printed version, they had Uriah Levy speaking in fake Yiddish dialect (” I vud not zell it to you for five tousant tolers, even!”) even though he was Sephardic...
     
    Like Ben Shapiro's impression of Bernie Sanders. I know, it's not too far off the mark for Sanders.

    Here is an article about it. The original story was published in Hartford Courant in 1897. Uriah Levy has been rechristened renamed Judah Levy.

    “American hearts have recently been harrowed,” Cummings writes, “by a story of [Monticello’s] purchase by Judah Levy, late Commodore in the United States navy.” The story, he says, “asserts that efforts were made to hold the estate after Jefferson’s death for his favorite daughter, Martha Randolph. About $3,000 was required.

    “The money was raised by patriotic Philadelphians, and entrusted to a young Virginian, a relative of Martha Randolph. He got drunk on the way to Monticello, and arrived a day too late. It is more than intimated that Captain Levy, who was a passenger in the same stage, took advantage of his drunkenness and bought the place. The appalled Virginian besought him to be merciful after his purchase, and asked him what he would take for the homestead.

    “His reply was: ‘Mein frien’ you are a glever feller, but you talk too much. I will take a huntret tousand tollars.’

    https://www.worldcat.org/wcpa/servlet/DCARead?standardNo=074320106X&standardNoType=1&excerpt=true

    Upon further reflection, the story is equal opportunity insulting. Not only are Jews portrayed as Shylocks but Christians are portrayed as drunken fools. (The story is completely fictional BTW – there was no fundraising, no young Virginian. Nothing like that ever happened.)

    • Replies: @res
    So at the peak of the yellow press (1895-1898):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism
    some newspaper published an article insulting a Jew. I think if we were to make a catalog of everything nasty published about one group or another during that period and have each of those groups get upset about it there would be a worldwide shortage of fainting couches.

    One thing we can be absolutely certain of is that Jews as a group have few peers when it comes to remembering and reminding others of times they were hard done by.

    And I say that as someone who likes many Jews and stereotypically Jewish traits. But that particular trait becomes old very, very quickly.

    P.S. But thanks for providing a reference. Seriously.
    , @Oscar Peterson
    Typically dishonest pilpul.

    Jack D.’s original argument was that the impetus for the late 19th and early 20th century movement to preserve historical structures was Anglo-Protestant angst stemming from ongoing mass immigration.

    I asked him for evidence, and so far he has produced none.

    What he has done is attempt to shift the conversation from his original claim to the question of whether there were anti-Jewish sentiments generated by the Levy family’s ownership of Monticello from the 1830s forward and/or associated with the campaign to make Monticello a national monument fully open to the public rather than a private residence.

    His second claim has no bearing on the first and essentially represents a camouflaged retreat from his initial, untenable allegations.

    And even on this second claim, he has omitted key information (see my comment 304.)

    What can you do with this kind of shifty mendacity?

  305. @Hibernian

    those who read the other writers–a much more Jew-skeptical crowd.
     
    For which read, in many cases, cheerleaders for Hitler.

    Me: “those who read the other writers–a much more Jew-skeptical crowd.”

    You: “For which read, in many cases, cheerleaders for Hitler.”

    But in most cases read, those who don’t accept the mendacious, Jewish line on Israel and much else–for example, Jack D.’s spurious theories above about the impetus for national historic site preservation in the US.

  306. @snorlax

    In one widely printed version, they had Uriah Levy speaking in fake Yiddish dialect (” I vud not zell it to you for five tousant tolers, even!”) even though he was Sephardic
     
    Oh my God, it's almost like when someone called a Korean person Chinese and then praced an older fol flied lice. Quick, tell me, was anyone's hair touched?

    The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Foundation purchased Monticello from Jefferson Levy for $500,000 (back then, that was a lot of money) in 1923.

    Who was the National Director of the Thomas Jefferson Memorial Foundation? One Theodore Fred Kuper. Who was Theodore Fred Kuper?


    Theodore Fred Kuper (b. 1886) was a Russian-Jewish immigrant to the United States who became a leader in the preservationist movement that saved Thomas Jefferson's home Monticello and an important player in the administration of New York City's public schools and city college system.
     
    And what horrible oppressions were visited upon poor Jefferson Levy by the eeevul WASPs?

    Jefferson Monroe Levy (April 16, 1852 – March 6, 1924) was a three-term U.S. Congressman from New York, a leader of the New York Democratic Party, and a renowned real estate and stock speculator.
     
    What horrors will the eeevul WASPs inflict on him next?

    Levy was involved with the American Boy Scouts. He resigned from the board along with William Randolph Hearst over poor fundraising actions in 1910.

    In 1894 Levy became a member of the New York State Society of the Sons of the American Revolution. He was assigned national membership number 4539 and state society number 439.
     

    Oh the humanity.

    Your litanies of trivial, century or centuries-old and in any case fictional or semi-fictional grievances (one might call them blood libels) against the eeevul WASPs are neither effective nor attractive as an argumentative strategy.

    This particular example you chose is ironic since it lends itself to going with honey instead of vinegar. Messrs. Kuper and Levy sound like they were each a great credit to the Jewish people.

    You would do well to remember Christ's (rather obvious) teaching that you should do unto others as you would have them do unto you. If you do not like litanies of fictional or semi-fictional historical grievances about how da Joos did 9/11, the USS Liberty bombing, the Russian Revolution and the Islamic conquest of Spain, then please kindly refrain from the equivalent.

    For example, I am very sympathetic to you when I see you being unfairly ganged up on, as in this thread. I had all planned out in my head a spirited and quite eloquent philo-Semitic defense of you in response to AnotherDad, but it probably won't see the light of day because I've used up all the time and motivation I want to spend right now responding to your choosing to insult my ancestors with falsehoods.

    Someone asked me for proof that the revival of interest in American historic structures had anti-immigrant overtones and I gave them evidence. If you don’t like that evidence, that’s your problem. I agree with you that the Levy’s were a great and distinguished family who were present in America from the earliest colonial days. Levy’s membership in the Sons of the American Revolution was well deserved. BUT this did not stop others from expressing anti-Semitic sentiments toward the family and giving them comic Yiddish accents. I didn’t make that up. That’s part of history too. One does not negate the other.

    America has been great to the Jews, maybe the greatest refuge they have found since the fall of Judea. Most Americans are not anti-Semitic. But a small minority are. That % waxes and wanes. From the late 19th century until the 1940s, anti-Semitism was in the ascendancy as the large # of recent and impoverished E. European Jewish immigrants made a bad impression on many. Previously Jews in America were a small tribe and like the Levy’s even somewhat aristocratic, but now huddled masses arrived by the millions and spoiled the brand. There were city clubs that had [Sephardic or German] Jewish founders but which no longer accepted Jewish members. Ivy League schools made a concerted effort to reduce Jewish enrollment. After the Holocaust, public anti-Semitism became déclassé (not to mention illegal – no more “restricted” hotels). I for one am happy to keep it that way.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Why exactly are you rabbiting on and on about the perceived anti-semitic aspects of some Americans? Who are really cares? Like so what? And Jews don't have any prejudice at all. Not a single one, pure as snow all during these centuries? Extremely petty. And of course Jews have historically written the version of the Talmud (36 volumes and all) on pettiness. Not exactly a virtue worth cultivating.

    Oh. Wait. Are you one of them? Wow. Never saw that coming. Not in a million years. No siree Bob, er, No Siree Levy.

  307. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    The "each" was definitely not clear, not by a long shot. As 78% is definitely a majority by anyone's reckoning.

    Honestly can't think of a reason why any self respecting white person would want to live in the city on a long term basis. Cities are not conducive to family formation, don't provide quality public school education, offer little in the way of overall safety from violent crime, and, of course do not offer much in the way of detached housing with ample land for back and front yards. And of course urban centers with high populations as shown by the examples of NY, PHIL, DET, and New Orleans are prone to outbreaks of viruses such as COVID-19. Most tend to be densely populated within little amount of land.

    An ideal sized town would have it the opposite way, with a large amount of land for a just right amount of population. Malibu comes to mind, as its about 15k in population for about 20 square miles. Just right size, give or take a few thousand.

    On the subject of Detroit, HOF DET RF Al Kaline passed away Monday. With all the craziness going on its easy to forget a legend such as Al Kaline, and admittedly his OBP was fairly anemic at .376. Bill James perhaps would not have hesitated to put the nixay on his induction into Hall of Fame-ay, but, as he was grandfathered in by the archaic variables of the time, (e.g. youngest to win a Batting Title at age 20, and 3,007 H), one could grant some leniency in Al Kaline's case.

    Rest in Peace, Al. You certainly deserved it.

    One class act that doesn't come along every day in MLB.

    Al Kaline

    Al Kaline is obviously worthy of the Hall of Fame.

    http://www.hallofstats.com/player/kalinal01

    And I’m pretty sure James agrees, going so far as to say Kaline was not far off from Yastrzemski, who’s regarded universally as a solid Hall of Famer.

    • Replies: @Trinity
    Kaline did enough to receive a nod to Cooperstown IMO as well. Speaking of Boston Red Sox left fielders, wonder if Jim Rice ever made it into the HOF? Be a shame if Rice didn't. Would have to check and see if Rice was finally voted in or not. Another was Ron Santo of the Chicago Cubs. Both of these guys certainly belong, especially when you consider some of their stats vs some of the other guys that are in the MLB HOF. Same thing with football. Ken Stabler died before they FINALLY put him in the NFL HOF. Take a look at Stabler's stats vs. someone like Joe Namath. Stabler's stats are so much better, particularly percentage of passes completed. I don't even think Namath completed 50% of his passes, if he did, it wasn't much above 50%. It always helps to play in a big market like NYC or LA. IF Stabler had played most of his career for the Giants or Jets instead of in Oakland, he would have been in the HOF in his first year of eligibility, same thing with Kaline, if the guy would have played with the Yankees instead of the Tigers, he would have had an easier time making it into the HOF.
  308. @Hebrew National

    He appears to have calculated that Sailer’s readers, who make up 30% of the site’s traffic, according to Ron Unz, will be more receptive to his shtick
     
    Can't speak for JackD but maybe he's here at iSteve because he enjoys the content? That's why I'm here, and not at Philip Giraldi or the other whack jobs.

    Calling Giraldi a whack job is like calling Hebrew National a decent hot dog.

  309. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Neither a New Yorker nor a clear-eyed objective Martian observer would ever confuse NYC with Philadelphia. No disrespect to either place: they are simply not alike, except in being large Northeastern cities.

    Philly and Baltimore are like outsiders in the Boston-Washington D.C. corridor. Neither are glamorous, cosmopolitan cities like NYC, nor do they share anything in common with stuffy Boston or the political capital Washington D.C. Instead of Philly being like a smaller NYC, it is more like a larger Baltimore or Baltimore is a smaller version of Philly. Most people think of Manhattan only when they think of NYC, Philly might have something in common with working class Brooklyn, but not Manhattan.

    Back to the article. I heard either last night or maybe the night before that the coronahoaxers aka the (((media))) are predicting Philly, Baltimore and the District of Criminals could be the next “hot spots” in the country. What is the death count in Boston btw? All these cities located in the BosWash corridor are old school cities built with dense populations, people in row houses right next to one another, the newer breed of cities that line the Sunbelt are more spread out, at least spread out when compared to cities like Philly or NYC. So IF we are to believe the coronahoaxers aka the (media) than it only makes sense to keep the narrative going by saying all these old densely populated cities that line the Eastern Seaboard are going to be the new “hot spot” for the virus.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite

    Philly and Baltimore are like outsiders in the Boston-Washington D.C. corridor. Neither are glamorous, cosmopolitan cities like NYC, nor do they share anything in common with stuffy Boston or the political capital Washington D.C.
     
    Philly and Baltimore exist for 18th century reasons - easy access to the sea in a time before cars and built-out railroad networks. Now they are there because there is "some there there" but if you clean-sheeted the Eastern seaboard but railroads and highways existed, its unlikely Baltimore would be a city and maybe not Philly. Why sail a freighter all the way up the Chesapeake to Baltimore when you could just unload it in Norfolk or its environs (Hampton, Portsmouth, etc) and save 24 hours and several hundred miles?
  310. @Andrew

    The outbreak in the NYC area started and to a lesser extent remains most widespread among Orthodox Jews, who were then the Patient Zeros in several other states (e.g. here in Massachusetts). There are relatively few Orthodox Jews, skiers and Tom Hankses in Philly.
     
    You will never in a million years guess what community started the spread around Philadelphia and who lives in some of the hardest hit areas (Lower Merion, Overbrook, Cheltenham, Abington) where over 0.5% are already infected.

    Blacks. That’s the one common variable in all of them. Or else Chinese.

  311. @Jack D
    Someone asked me for proof that the revival of interest in American historic structures had anti-immigrant overtones and I gave them evidence. If you don't like that evidence, that's your problem. I agree with you that the Levy's were a great and distinguished family who were present in America from the earliest colonial days. Levy's membership in the Sons of the American Revolution was well deserved. BUT this did not stop others from expressing anti-Semitic sentiments toward the family and giving them comic Yiddish accents. I didn't make that up. That's part of history too. One does not negate the other.

    America has been great to the Jews, maybe the greatest refuge they have found since the fall of Judea. Most Americans are not anti-Semitic. But a small minority are. That % waxes and wanes. From the late 19th century until the 1940s, anti-Semitism was in the ascendancy as the large # of recent and impoverished E. European Jewish immigrants made a bad impression on many. Previously Jews in America were a small tribe and like the Levy's even somewhat aristocratic, but now huddled masses arrived by the millions and spoiled the brand. There were city clubs that had [Sephardic or German] Jewish founders but which no longer accepted Jewish members. Ivy League schools made a concerted effort to reduce Jewish enrollment. After the Holocaust, public anti-Semitism became déclassé (not to mention illegal - no more "restricted" hotels). I for one am happy to keep it that way.

    Why exactly are you rabbiting on and on about the perceived anti-semitic aspects of some Americans? Who are really cares? Like so what? And Jews don’t have any prejudice at all. Not a single one, pure as snow all during these centuries? Extremely petty. And of course Jews have historically written the version of the Talmud (36 volumes and all) on pettiness. Not exactly a virtue worth cultivating.

    Oh. Wait. Are you one of them? Wow. Never saw that coming. Not in a million years. No siree Bob, er, No Siree Levy.

  312. @Jack D
    Here is an article about it. The original story was published in Hartford Courant in 1897. Uriah Levy has been rechristened renamed Judah Levy.

    "American hearts have recently been harrowed," Cummings writes, "by a story of [Monticello's] purchase by Judah Levy, late Commodore in the United States navy." The story, he says, "asserts that efforts were made to hold the estate after Jefferson's death for his favorite daughter, Martha Randolph. About $3,000 was required.

    "The money was raised by patriotic Philadelphians, and entrusted to a young Virginian, a relative of Martha Randolph. He got drunk on the way to Monticello, and arrived a day too late. It is more than intimated that Captain Levy, who was a passenger in the same stage, took advantage of his drunkenness and bought the place. The appalled Virginian besought him to be merciful after his purchase, and asked him what he would take for the homestead.

    "His reply was: 'Mein frien' you are a glever feller, but you talk too much. I will take a huntret tousand tollars.'
     
    https://www.worldcat.org/wcpa/servlet/DCARead?standardNo=074320106X&standardNoType=1&excerpt=true

    Upon further reflection, the story is equal opportunity insulting. Not only are Jews portrayed as Shylocks but Christians are portrayed as drunken fools. (The story is completely fictional BTW - there was no fundraising, no young Virginian. Nothing like that ever happened.)

    So at the peak of the yellow press (1895-1898):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism
    some newspaper published an article insulting a Jew. I think if we were to make a catalog of everything nasty published about one group or another during that period and have each of those groups get upset about it there would be a worldwide shortage of fainting couches.

    One thing we can be absolutely certain of is that Jews as a group have few peers when it comes to remembering and reminding others of times they were hard done by.

    And I say that as someone who likes many Jews and stereotypically Jewish traits. But that particular trait becomes old very, very quickly.

    P.S. But thanks for providing a reference. Seriously.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    If it was just one newspaper article, you would be right. But it wasn't. This blood libel was repeated endlessly for decades, up into the 1950s. From the article that I cite above:

    Maud Littleton repeats the story, with a few variations, in "Monticello," a fifty-two-page booklet she wrote, published, and distributed nationwide in 1914 as part of her campaign to have the government condemn and purchase Monticello from Jefferson Levy....

    Around the same time, the widely read advice columnist Dorothy Dix wrote an article in Good Housekeeping Magazine, in which she attacked Jefferson Levy's ownership of Monticello, saying Jefferson's home had passed into "alien hands." She repeated the stagecoach story, except this time the man in question was identified as "a young relative of the Jeffersons."

    An August 14, 1921, Richmond Times-Dispatch editorial that called for the government to buy Monticello, for example, repeated the tale. The same story, minus the overimbibing, was also included in Paul Wilstach's 1925 book Jefferson and Monticello.

    Uncharitable versions of Uriah's Levy's purchase of Monticello continued into the 1950s. William H. Gaines, Jr., in the Spring 1952 issue of Virginia Cavalcade magazine, a publication of the Virginia State Library, portrayed Uriah Levy's ownership of Monticello decidedly negatively, including the way Levy allegedly gained possession.
     

    If you have any interest in this, I highly recommend Saving Monticello, by Leepson:

    http://www.marcleepson.com/savingmonticello/levys/jeff.html

    It's a good read. The bitter irony is that the Levy's were the family that saved Monticello and instead of praise for it, all they got was grief.

    , @Marty
    One thing we can be absolutely certain of is that Jews as a group have few peers when it comes to remembering and reminding others of times they were hard done by.

    Around 2009, I was on a bus in SF, packed, mostly with Asian kids and seniors. Near the rear door, a loud argument erupted between two 40-ish blacks, a man and woman. I could see the potential for collateral injuries so I called out for these two to cool it. This upset a large guy in his 60’s, in a suit and tie, standing near me. He says to me, “they haven’t done anything wrong. I understand discrimination. I had relatives in ...”. I don’t recall whether he said Germany or Holocaust.
  313. @res
    So at the peak of the yellow press (1895-1898):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism
    some newspaper published an article insulting a Jew. I think if we were to make a catalog of everything nasty published about one group or another during that period and have each of those groups get upset about it there would be a worldwide shortage of fainting couches.

    One thing we can be absolutely certain of is that Jews as a group have few peers when it comes to remembering and reminding others of times they were hard done by.

    And I say that as someone who likes many Jews and stereotypically Jewish traits. But that particular trait becomes old very, very quickly.

    P.S. But thanks for providing a reference. Seriously.

    If it was just one newspaper article, you would be right. But it wasn’t. This blood libel was repeated endlessly for decades, up into the 1950s. From the article that I cite above:

    Maud Littleton repeats the story, with a few variations, in “Monticello,” a fifty-two-page booklet she wrote, published, and distributed nationwide in 1914 as part of her campaign to have the government condemn and purchase Monticello from Jefferson Levy….

    Around the same time, the widely read advice columnist Dorothy Dix wrote an article in Good Housekeeping Magazine, in which she attacked Jefferson Levy’s ownership of Monticello, saying Jefferson’s home had passed into “alien hands.” She repeated the stagecoach story, except this time the man in question was identified as “a young relative of the Jeffersons.”

    An August 14, 1921, Richmond Times-Dispatch editorial that called for the government to buy Monticello, for example, repeated the tale. The same story, minus the overimbibing, was also included in Paul Wilstach’s 1925 book Jefferson and Monticello.

    Uncharitable versions of Uriah’s Levy’s purchase of Monticello continued into the 1950s. William H. Gaines, Jr., in the Spring 1952 issue of Virginia Cavalcade magazine, a publication of the Virginia State Library, portrayed Uriah Levy’s ownership of Monticello decidedly negatively, including the way Levy allegedly gained possession.

    If you have any interest in this, I highly recommend Saving Monticello, by Leepson:

    http://www.marcleepson.com/savingmonticello/levys/jeff.html

    It’s a good read. The bitter irony is that the Levy’s were the family that saved Monticello and instead of praise for it, all they got was grief.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    You're good about going off on side tangents, yet again fail -- an easy word when it comes to you, I think -- to back up your original assertion Americans only started to care about historical preservation when boatloads of immigrants started arriving.
    , @res
    Thanks for the reference. Even just reading the Amazon reviews was interesting.

    The bitter irony is that the Levy’s were the family that saved Monticello and instead of praise for it, all they got was grief.
     
    I can see how that would hurt. It sounds like the effort to purchase Monticello got ugly. And I imagine the financial negotiations played all too easily into griping about stereotypes.

    Just because (IMHO) too many Jews cry anti-Semitism all too quickly does not mean it doesn't exist. I just wish The Boy Who Cried Wolf was required reading for EVERYONE these days. I know most of the MSM could benefit from a reading every day when they arrive at work.

    P.S. One interesting thing from the wiki:

    Teachers have used the fable as a cautionary tale about telling the truth, but an educational experiment in the first decade of the 21st century suggested that reading "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" increased children's likelihood of lying. On the other hand, reading a book on George Washington and the cherry tree decreased this likelihood dramatically.[10]
     
    Annoyingly, Wikipedia references a book (Nurture Shock) rather than the primary source. I think the primary source was an earlier paper by the same people as this later paper.
    Learning through observing: Effects of modeling truth‐ and lie‐telling on children’s honesty
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/desc.12883
  314. @Jack D
    If it was just one newspaper article, you would be right. But it wasn't. This blood libel was repeated endlessly for decades, up into the 1950s. From the article that I cite above:

    Maud Littleton repeats the story, with a few variations, in "Monticello," a fifty-two-page booklet she wrote, published, and distributed nationwide in 1914 as part of her campaign to have the government condemn and purchase Monticello from Jefferson Levy....

    Around the same time, the widely read advice columnist Dorothy Dix wrote an article in Good Housekeeping Magazine, in which she attacked Jefferson Levy's ownership of Monticello, saying Jefferson's home had passed into "alien hands." She repeated the stagecoach story, except this time the man in question was identified as "a young relative of the Jeffersons."

    An August 14, 1921, Richmond Times-Dispatch editorial that called for the government to buy Monticello, for example, repeated the tale. The same story, minus the overimbibing, was also included in Paul Wilstach's 1925 book Jefferson and Monticello.

    Uncharitable versions of Uriah's Levy's purchase of Monticello continued into the 1950s. William H. Gaines, Jr., in the Spring 1952 issue of Virginia Cavalcade magazine, a publication of the Virginia State Library, portrayed Uriah Levy's ownership of Monticello decidedly negatively, including the way Levy allegedly gained possession.
     

    If you have any interest in this, I highly recommend Saving Monticello, by Leepson:

    http://www.marcleepson.com/savingmonticello/levys/jeff.html

    It's a good read. The bitter irony is that the Levy's were the family that saved Monticello and instead of praise for it, all they got was grief.

    You’re good about going off on side tangents, yet again fail — an easy word when it comes to you, I think — to back up your original assertion Americans only started to care about historical preservation when boatloads of immigrants started arriving.

    • Agree: Oscar Peterson
  315. @res
    So at the peak of the yellow press (1895-1898):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism
    some newspaper published an article insulting a Jew. I think if we were to make a catalog of everything nasty published about one group or another during that period and have each of those groups get upset about it there would be a worldwide shortage of fainting couches.

    One thing we can be absolutely certain of is that Jews as a group have few peers when it comes to remembering and reminding others of times they were hard done by.

    And I say that as someone who likes many Jews and stereotypically Jewish traits. But that particular trait becomes old very, very quickly.

    P.S. But thanks for providing a reference. Seriously.

    One thing we can be absolutely certain of is that Jews as a group have few peers when it comes to remembering and reminding others of times they were hard done by.

    Around 2009, I was on a bus in SF, packed, mostly with Asian kids and seniors. Near the rear door, a loud argument erupted between two 40-ish blacks, a man and woman. I could see the potential for collateral injuries so I called out for these two to cool it. This upset a large guy in his 60’s, in a suit and tie, standing near me. He says to me, “they haven’t done anything wrong. I understand discrimination. I had relatives in …”. I don’t recall whether he said Germany or Holocaust.

  316. @bomag
    A close acquaintance did a slow travel through Asia/Europe a couple years ago. At one reflection session, he casually remarked that there was a marked Chinese presence/influence everywhere he went.

    1. Chinese are a “visible minority”. If there are 150,000 Poles living in London (and there are) you might not notice because they blend in with the rest of the population. But if there are 120,000 Chinese living in London, you’re gonna notice.

    2. There are over 1.3 billion Chinese, which is about 50% more than the total number of white people on earth. And that’s just the Chinese living in China, not counting the Chinese diaspora or all the other Asians who you might mistake for Chinese. So if even a small % of them move to or visit a European country, you’re gonna notice.

    3. You’re especially gonna notice if you are an older person who remembers the time when most Chinese were locked behind the Iron Curtain and didn’t take European package tours and when southern European countries were much poorer and were EXPORTERS of immigrants, not importers.

    Maybe Covid has changed the future, but three months ago, I would have told you “You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.” Out of China’s 1.3 billion people “only” a couple of hundred million now have enough income to take occasional European vacations, but that % has been going up and up every year. The Chinese government was expecting that the per capita income of their people (especially in the big coastal cities) would eventually be comparable to that seen in other advanced Asian countries and there was little reason to see why that was not possible. If you take per capita numbers like Japanese ownership of foreign assets or frequency of foreign travel by HK residents and project them onto the full population of China, the #’s are enormous.

  317. @Jack D
    If it was just one newspaper article, you would be right. But it wasn't. This blood libel was repeated endlessly for decades, up into the 1950s. From the article that I cite above:

    Maud Littleton repeats the story, with a few variations, in "Monticello," a fifty-two-page booklet she wrote, published, and distributed nationwide in 1914 as part of her campaign to have the government condemn and purchase Monticello from Jefferson Levy....

    Around the same time, the widely read advice columnist Dorothy Dix wrote an article in Good Housekeeping Magazine, in which she attacked Jefferson Levy's ownership of Monticello, saying Jefferson's home had passed into "alien hands." She repeated the stagecoach story, except this time the man in question was identified as "a young relative of the Jeffersons."

    An August 14, 1921, Richmond Times-Dispatch editorial that called for the government to buy Monticello, for example, repeated the tale. The same story, minus the overimbibing, was also included in Paul Wilstach's 1925 book Jefferson and Monticello.

    Uncharitable versions of Uriah's Levy's purchase of Monticello continued into the 1950s. William H. Gaines, Jr., in the Spring 1952 issue of Virginia Cavalcade magazine, a publication of the Virginia State Library, portrayed Uriah Levy's ownership of Monticello decidedly negatively, including the way Levy allegedly gained possession.
     

    If you have any interest in this, I highly recommend Saving Monticello, by Leepson:

    http://www.marcleepson.com/savingmonticello/levys/jeff.html

    It's a good read. The bitter irony is that the Levy's were the family that saved Monticello and instead of praise for it, all they got was grief.

    Thanks for the reference. Even just reading the Amazon reviews was interesting.

    The bitter irony is that the Levy’s were the family that saved Monticello and instead of praise for it, all they got was grief.

    I can see how that would hurt. It sounds like the effort to purchase Monticello got ugly. And I imagine the financial negotiations played all too easily into griping about stereotypes.

    Just because (IMHO) too many Jews cry anti-Semitism all too quickly does not mean it doesn’t exist. I just wish The Boy Who Cried Wolf was required reading for EVERYONE these days. I know most of the MSM could benefit from a reading every day when they arrive at work.

    P.S. One interesting thing from the wiki:

    Teachers have used the fable as a cautionary tale about telling the truth, but an educational experiment in the first decade of the 21st century suggested that reading “The Boy Who Cried Wolf” increased children’s likelihood of lying. On the other hand, reading a book on George Washington and the cherry tree decreased this likelihood dramatically.[10]

    Annoyingly, Wikipedia references a book (Nurture Shock) rather than the primary source. I think the primary source was an earlier paper by the same people as this later paper.
    Learning through observing: Effects of modeling truth‐ and lie‐telling on children’s honesty
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/desc.12883

  318. @Jack D
    Here is an article about it. The original story was published in Hartford Courant in 1897. Uriah Levy has been rechristened renamed Judah Levy.

    "American hearts have recently been harrowed," Cummings writes, "by a story of [Monticello's] purchase by Judah Levy, late Commodore in the United States navy." The story, he says, "asserts that efforts were made to hold the estate after Jefferson's death for his favorite daughter, Martha Randolph. About $3,000 was required.

    "The money was raised by patriotic Philadelphians, and entrusted to a young Virginian, a relative of Martha Randolph. He got drunk on the way to Monticello, and arrived a day too late. It is more than intimated that Captain Levy, who was a passenger in the same stage, took advantage of his drunkenness and bought the place. The appalled Virginian besought him to be merciful after his purchase, and asked him what he would take for the homestead.

    "His reply was: 'Mein frien' you are a glever feller, but you talk too much. I will take a huntret tousand tollars.'
     
    https://www.worldcat.org/wcpa/servlet/DCARead?standardNo=074320106X&standardNoType=1&excerpt=true

    Upon further reflection, the story is equal opportunity insulting. Not only are Jews portrayed as Shylocks but Christians are portrayed as drunken fools. (The story is completely fictional BTW - there was no fundraising, no young Virginian. Nothing like that ever happened.)

    Typically dishonest pilpul.

    Jack D.’s original argument was that the impetus for the late 19th and early 20th century movement to preserve historical structures was Anglo-Protestant angst stemming from ongoing mass immigration.

    I asked him for evidence, and so far he has produced none.

    What he has done is attempt to shift the conversation from his original claim to the question of whether there were anti-Jewish sentiments generated by the Levy family’s ownership of Monticello from the 1830s forward and/or associated with the campaign to make Monticello a national monument fully open to the public rather than a private residence.

    His second claim has no bearing on the first and essentially represents a camouflaged retreat from his initial, untenable allegations.

    And even on this second claim, he has omitted key information (see my comment 304.)

    What can you do with this kind of shifty mendacity?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    "Jack D.’s original argument was that the impetus for the late 19th and early 20th century movement to preserve historical structures was Anglo-Protestant angst stemming from ongoing mass immigration."

    He is spot on. These two political cartoons provide ample evidence.

    https://cpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/u.osu.edu/dist/9/36493/files/2017/02/5-The-Hyphenated-American-vfsr1f.jpg

    https://www.posterazzi.com/anti-immigrants-cartoon-nthe-last-yankee-a-lone-yankee-standing-tall-is-regarded-with-curiosity-by-a-throng-of-immigrants-in-the-city-american-cartoon-1888-poster-print-by-granger-collection-item-vargrc0065031/

    Remember, Eastern and Southern Europeans were on the bottom of the totem pole in Europe "race" wise and were ill-suited for Anglo-Saxon society.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Races_of_Europe_(Ripley_book)
  319. @Trinity
    Philly and Baltimore are like outsiders in the Boston-Washington D.C. corridor. Neither are glamorous, cosmopolitan cities like NYC, nor do they share anything in common with stuffy Boston or the political capital Washington D.C. Instead of Philly being like a smaller NYC, it is more like a larger Baltimore or Baltimore is a smaller version of Philly. Most people think of Manhattan only when they think of NYC, Philly might have something in common with working class Brooklyn, but not Manhattan.

    Back to the article. I heard either last night or maybe the night before that the coronahoaxers aka the (((media))) are predicting Philly, Baltimore and the District of Criminals could be the next "hot spots" in the country. What is the death count in Boston btw? All these cities located in the BosWash corridor are old school cities built with dense populations, people in row houses right next to one another, the newer breed of cities that line the Sunbelt are more spread out, at least spread out when compared to cities like Philly or NYC. So IF we are to believe the coronahoaxers aka the (media) than it only makes sense to keep the narrative going by saying all these old densely populated cities that line the Eastern Seaboard are going to be the new "hot spot" for the virus.

    Philly and Baltimore are like outsiders in the Boston-Washington D.C. corridor. Neither are glamorous, cosmopolitan cities like NYC, nor do they share anything in common with stuffy Boston or the political capital Washington D.C.

    Philly and Baltimore exist for 18th century reasons – easy access to the sea in a time before cars and built-out railroad networks. Now they are there because there is “some there there” but if you clean-sheeted the Eastern seaboard but railroads and highways existed, its unlikely Baltimore would be a city and maybe not Philly. Why sail a freighter all the way up the Chesapeake to Baltimore when you could just unload it in Norfolk or its environs (Hampton, Portsmouth, etc) and save 24 hours and several hundred miles?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    If what you said was true, then Philly and Baltimore would no longer have ports at all. But in fact they still do. Not as busy as Savannah or Norfolk but still significant traffic.

    https://www.logisticsmgmt.com/article/top_30_u.s._ports_trade_tensions_determine_where_cargo_goes_next

    BTW, 7 of the 10 largest container ports in the world are in China. 42 million TEUs for Shanghai alone outweighs our top 30 ports added together (29 million TEUs).
    , @Hibernian
    St. Louis is similar; began because of the river trade. Being only tenuously on the Union side in the Civil War probably didn't help them in the competition with Chicago (which started out based on a link between the Great Lakes and the Mississipi Valley, but quickly became more railroad oriented) to be the main city between the coasts.
  320. @Oscar Peterson
    Even if Monticello were a good example, it would hardly substantiate your expansive allegations of Anglo-Protestant insecurity, in the context of mass immigration, as the driver for acquiring and restoring national historic sites.

    But it's not a good example anyway.

    The campaign against the private ownership of Monticello by Jefferson Levy was instigated by one woman, Maud Littleton, who wanted Monticello open to the general public rather than continuing as a private residence, saying, “Surely he [Levy] does not want a whole nation forever crawling at his feet for permission to worship at this shrine of our independence.”

    It was a pressure campaign to be sure, but it's interesting to observe how Jews feel quite justified in mounting pressure campaigns to get what they want but then whine if any Jew is the target of one.

    In any case, it is certainly possible that Littleton disliked Levy as a Jew, but I don't believe there is any record of her referring specifically to his Jewishness, and she did say that Levy had maintained Monticello “probably as well as such an exacting public task could be done by an individual.” Congress voted down any idea of buying Monticello in 1912. It was ultimately purchased by a foundation funded by national subscription.

    There is nothing in this story to support your thesis.

    Unless either the Virginia or the Federal Government was willing to use the power of eminent domain, which didn’t happen, Mr. Levy had every right to hold on to the property. It seems in this case it was the non-Jewish people who were involved in stereotypically Jewish behavior. Oh wait, they were “aristocrats.” They were entitled.

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
    Totally irrelevant.

    No one is questioning Levy’s legal right to his (then) property. And as I said in comment 304, Congress rejected any attempt at government purchase of the property.
    , @Sam Haysom
    This is ridiculous- the perspective here is entirely yeoman not one bit aristocratic. I think that perspective is at this point contrived and as a descendent of Big Cotton I think they shovel way too much of the blame for slavery and blacks off onto the plantation owners- but almost no one here represents an old South moonlight and magnolia planter class point of view. This particular Jew drove a hard bargain- why is it an issue to depict that cupidity in a presentation about the history of the site?
  321. @Hibernian
    Unless either the Virginia or the Federal Government was willing to use the power of eminent domain, which didn't happen, Mr. Levy had every right to hold on to the property. It seems in this case it was the non-Jewish people who were involved in stereotypically Jewish behavior. Oh wait, they were "aristocrats." They were entitled.

    Totally irrelevant.

    No one is questioning Levy’s legal right to his (then) property. And as I said in comment 304, Congress rejected any attempt at government purchase of the property.

  322. @William Badwhite

    Philly and Baltimore are like outsiders in the Boston-Washington D.C. corridor. Neither are glamorous, cosmopolitan cities like NYC, nor do they share anything in common with stuffy Boston or the political capital Washington D.C.
     
    Philly and Baltimore exist for 18th century reasons - easy access to the sea in a time before cars and built-out railroad networks. Now they are there because there is "some there there" but if you clean-sheeted the Eastern seaboard but railroads and highways existed, its unlikely Baltimore would be a city and maybe not Philly. Why sail a freighter all the way up the Chesapeake to Baltimore when you could just unload it in Norfolk or its environs (Hampton, Portsmouth, etc) and save 24 hours and several hundred miles?

    If what you said was true, then Philly and Baltimore would no longer have ports at all. But in fact they still do. Not as busy as Savannah or Norfolk but still significant traffic.

    https://www.logisticsmgmt.com/article/top_30_u.s._ports_trade_tensions_determine_where_cargo_goes_next

    BTW, 7 of the 10 largest container ports in the world are in China. 42 million TEUs for Shanghai alone outweighs our top 30 ports added together (29 million TEUs).

    • Replies: @William Badwhite

    If what you said was true, then Philly and Baltimore would no longer have ports at all. But in fact they still do.
     
    Jack I'm not as negative on you as some of the other commenters here, but you have the lawyers' need to quibble on every point. You should stick to topics on which you are knowledgeable.

    Baltimore and Philadelphia have port traffic because they already have ports. See the part where I said "there is already some there there". Once the infrastructure - not just ports but the rail spurs, access to highways - is there there's going to be a certain amount of momentum and they'll likely always continue to get some traffic. Just not enough to justify building a major city around it if you were to start over.

    As I said, if you started the Eastern seaboard over Philly and Baltimore would be small towns. They are where they are for 18th century reasons. Nobody would put a major part in Baltimore today - why would they when they could stop at Norfolk? Btw Norfolk's commercial port traffic would likely be even bigger than it is (bigger than Baltimore and Philly combined) if it didn't also have the world's largest naval installation.

    I can look out my office window and watch ships coming and going at the Port of Miami. There aren't that many of them. Baltimore and Philly are both below Miami in terms of traffic.
  323. @William Badwhite

    Philly and Baltimore are like outsiders in the Boston-Washington D.C. corridor. Neither are glamorous, cosmopolitan cities like NYC, nor do they share anything in common with stuffy Boston or the political capital Washington D.C.
     
    Philly and Baltimore exist for 18th century reasons - easy access to the sea in a time before cars and built-out railroad networks. Now they are there because there is "some there there" but if you clean-sheeted the Eastern seaboard but railroads and highways existed, its unlikely Baltimore would be a city and maybe not Philly. Why sail a freighter all the way up the Chesapeake to Baltimore when you could just unload it in Norfolk or its environs (Hampton, Portsmouth, etc) and save 24 hours and several hundred miles?

    St. Louis is similar; began because of the river trade. Being only tenuously on the Union side in the Civil War probably didn’t help them in the competition with Chicago (which started out based on a link between the Great Lakes and the Mississipi Valley, but quickly became more railroad oriented) to be the main city between the coasts.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite

    St. Louis is similar; began because of the river trade.
     
    Thanks. Its kind of interesting looking into why cities are where they are. For example, Richmond Virginia is about as far up the James River as is navigable to ships. SE of Richmond the James is deep and tidal. NW of it and the river turns shallower and fast running. In case people think I was unfair to Baltimore and Philly, I'd add Richmond to the list of cities that exist for 18th century reasons.

    One city I've not figured out - Dallas. As far as I can tell there's no real reason for Dallas to be where it is.
  324. Hey, Steve Sailer—What is your issue with my comments?

    My comment 304 sat in the review queue for at least three hours while other comments appeared one after another, to include several by the individual with whom I have been debating. It finally appeared as comment 299 only to have more comments dropped in behind it, moving it to 304 (for now.)

    You are the only one at this site who plays these games with the comments. Why?

    I have no problem dealing with the likes of Jack D., but how about keeping your thumb off the scale?

    If you really object to my comments why don’t you just say so instead of using surreptitious means to hinder my attempt to come to grips with my dishonest little friend?

    • Replies: @vhrm
    idk the details,but i don't think it's "editorial" in most cases.
    I believe there's some level of "algorithm" behind the commenting that prefers frequent commenters.

    Also some people appear to have their comments go through immediately, while most people are held for manual (?) approval. idk if that's a manual whitelist or some algorithmic scoring system.

    It makes quick discussions difficult, but i suspect the systems are in place to prevent the worst/most trite of the flaming and commenting.

  325. NYC subways can kill ya dead! Philadelphia subway system is small and the population is not using it nearly as much per capita every day as in NYC. This is my guess…I don’t have the stats. But NYC is known for its extensive and high ridership subway system. Where the price of a slice and the subway fare rise in parallel. (Pizza)

    But then you have the extensive Tokyo subway system which is known for having crammer personnel on the platforms who push the sardines into the can. Into very high proximity with each other who are all wearing masks. The Japanese must be doing a great Covid19 testing job to counteract the “subway effect”. Conclusion: The Japanese are obsessive about keeping a healthy nation while New Yorkers (City) are too wild and crazy to submit to Covid19 disciplines.

  326. @anon
    Send every American under 65 a mask in the mail and have them go back to work by the end of April, if not sooner.

    Include laundering instructions for reuse.

    From here on any benefit of quarantine has passed the point of diminishing returns. More young people will die of alcoholism and suicide due to the economic fallout than elderly would be saved by maintaining the quarantine. Masks have been demonstrated effective in Asia and explain why the virus has virtually skipped over their countries while wrecking havoc on mask-esqueing Western countries.

    Perhaps 2% of Americans are already seropositive for the virus, meaning 6 million have been infection, of those it's killed 0.2%. The flu has a case fatality rate of 0.1%. It's time to move on.

    Masks are key but are considered un-manly by men. At least by young men I see. Great analysis and end game solution. To which I will add hand washing with soap whenever you have been touching “strange”. At work and when out shopping. Lets say I had to enter 4 retail establishments yesterday. I do not touch my face and when I get home I wash me hands. And I did wear a mask for the benefit of store personnel. In my local Staples the staff is all black. Half wore masks. There is a white guy computer nerdish who was unmasked when I went there ten days ago. I think furloughed due to lack of store traffic.

  327. @Jack D
    If what you said was true, then Philly and Baltimore would no longer have ports at all. But in fact they still do. Not as busy as Savannah or Norfolk but still significant traffic.

    https://www.logisticsmgmt.com/article/top_30_u.s._ports_trade_tensions_determine_where_cargo_goes_next

    BTW, 7 of the 10 largest container ports in the world are in China. 42 million TEUs for Shanghai alone outweighs our top 30 ports added together (29 million TEUs).

    If what you said was true, then Philly and Baltimore would no longer have ports at all. But in fact they still do.

    Jack I’m not as negative on you as some of the other commenters here, but you have the lawyers’ need to quibble on every point. You should stick to topics on which you are knowledgeable.

    Baltimore and Philadelphia have port traffic because they already have ports. See the part where I said “there is already some there there”. Once the infrastructure – not just ports but the rail spurs, access to highways – is there there’s going to be a certain amount of momentum and they’ll likely always continue to get some traffic. Just not enough to justify building a major city around it if you were to start over.

    As I said, if you started the Eastern seaboard over Philly and Baltimore would be small towns. They are where they are for 18th century reasons. Nobody would put a major part in Baltimore today – why would they when they could stop at Norfolk? Btw Norfolk’s commercial port traffic would likely be even bigger than it is (bigger than Baltimore and Philly combined) if it didn’t also have the world’s largest naval installation.

    I can look out my office window and watch ships coming and going at the Port of Miami. There aren’t that many of them. Baltimore and Philly are both below Miami in terms of traffic.

    • Replies: @Jack D

    Once the infrastructure – not just ports but the rail spurs, access to highways – is there there’s going to be a certain amount of momentum
     
    Except that the modern port infrastructure is all container based and all newly built within the last 50 years while the old docks either lie abandoned or have been repurposed. And typically, the container port (e.g. Newark) is somewhere on a highway junction and quite removed from the historic port (the West Side of Manhattan) and the old docks had access to city streets but not to highways, most of which were also built in the last 50-70 years. Containerized freight was essentially a new business. If Norfolk had a truly massive advantage they wouldn't have invested in building even smaller container ports in Baltimore and Philly. Other businesses (e.g. New England textile mills) didn't just fade somewhat from their original locations, they relocated completely when they lost their economic advantage.

    You are proposing some sort of alternate history where OTOH, trucks and railroads exist and therefore Norfolk is favorably located vs Philly and Baltimore. But in an economy with trucks and railroads and airports and container ships, a sea port is not that big of an advantage to base a city on. In fact, with all of those trucks coming and going it's a rather unappealing place.

  328. @Hibernian
    St. Louis is similar; began because of the river trade. Being only tenuously on the Union side in the Civil War probably didn't help them in the competition with Chicago (which started out based on a link between the Great Lakes and the Mississipi Valley, but quickly became more railroad oriented) to be the main city between the coasts.

    St. Louis is similar; began because of the river trade.

    Thanks. Its kind of interesting looking into why cities are where they are. For example, Richmond Virginia is about as far up the James River as is navigable to ships. SE of Richmond the James is deep and tidal. NW of it and the river turns shallower and fast running. In case people think I was unfair to Baltimore and Philly, I’d add Richmond to the list of cities that exist for 18th century reasons.

    One city I’ve not figured out – Dallas. As far as I can tell there’s no real reason for Dallas to be where it is.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    Same as Atlanta - it was a railroad junction.

    More specifically, it was the point where east/west Texas and Pacific Railway crossed the north/south Houston & Texas Central Railroad line.

    http://www.museumoftheamericanrailroad.org/Learn/AHistoryofRailroadsinNorthTexas.aspx

    Other than the railroad junction, there was nothing to distinguish it from any other point on the endless prairie, no port, no navigable river, nothing.

    , @Steve Sailer
    My vague impression is that Dallas is Dallas because its boosters out-boosted every other small town's boosters in the region.
  329. @William Badwhite

    St. Louis is similar; began because of the river trade.
     
    Thanks. Its kind of interesting looking into why cities are where they are. For example, Richmond Virginia is about as far up the James River as is navigable to ships. SE of Richmond the James is deep and tidal. NW of it and the river turns shallower and fast running. In case people think I was unfair to Baltimore and Philly, I'd add Richmond to the list of cities that exist for 18th century reasons.

    One city I've not figured out - Dallas. As far as I can tell there's no real reason for Dallas to be where it is.

    Same as Atlanta – it was a railroad junction.

    More specifically, it was the point where east/west Texas and Pacific Railway crossed the north/south Houston & Texas Central Railroad line.

    http://www.museumoftheamericanrailroad.org/Learn/AHistoryofRailroadsinNorthTexas.aspx

    Other than the railroad junction, there was nothing to distinguish it from any other point on the endless prairie, no port, no navigable river, nothing.

  330. @nebulafox
    Scheiße, that's huge. No wonder they don't want news of that out.

    There's no way in ****ing hell the current order makes it out of this alive. I know it in my bones. The stench of decay has been out there for the past decade, but now? Now we need to start speaking about what comes next.

    There's no going back: this pandemic is going to change things, no matter how many people it does or does not kill. It hit a decaying, useless order like a truck, and that's all that matters. Good riddance, too. How stupid, how utterly useless do you need to be to squander the unprecedented potential that the US had after the USSR imploded?

    That’s only a million + tax. A rounding error in the census if the current outreach program is any indication.
    Just a bit of a blip in the deaths caused by medical errors stat.
    Nothing to see here, Move along now please.

  331. @Hibernian
    Unless either the Virginia or the Federal Government was willing to use the power of eminent domain, which didn't happen, Mr. Levy had every right to hold on to the property. It seems in this case it was the non-Jewish people who were involved in stereotypically Jewish behavior. Oh wait, they were "aristocrats." They were entitled.

    This is ridiculous- the perspective here is entirely yeoman not one bit aristocratic. I think that perspective is at this point contrived and as a descendent of Big Cotton I think they shovel way too much of the blame for slavery and blacks off onto the plantation owners- but almost no one here represents an old South moonlight and magnolia planter class point of view. This particular Jew drove a hard bargain- why is it an issue to depict that cupidity in a presentation about the history of the site?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    I did not direct the word "aristocrat" towards you or any other poster. I directed it towards those who were pressuring Mr. Levy to sell. I didn't mean that they were plantation owners or their descendants or that they were necessarily Southern at all, although likely at least some of them were. I don't think they were yeoman or yeowomen (think the farmers in Green Acres), with possibly a few exceptions. I was thinking only of Christian/Jewish relations, not White/Black or Northern/Southern ones. By aristocrat I meant more than just someone who is rich or even rich and educated. I meant what most people mean by that word and it could inlude merchant princes from New York, in competition with Jewish merchant princes, or Virginia gentlemen and gentlewomen, or people from the shady side of town in my Midwestern home town.
  332. @Jack D

    One of the reasons the Confederacy gets remembered more than the Union (despite losing the war) is the large wave of immigration that flooded through the North shortly afterward.
     
    The other reason is that Confederate commemoration became tied up with the myth of the Lost Cause and the desire of the Southern population to undo Reconstruction and maintain white power (ACTUAL white power, not in the modern bullshit sense).

    In NY, Grant's Tomb (a monument befitting a Roman emperor) ended up in a black (and Puerto Rican) neighborhood. Now you would think that they of all people would venerate the man who liberated them but in fact they could care less. It's a little better now, but in the '80s the place was covered in graffiti. Directly outside the Tomb someone in the '70s had the brilliant idea "to get the community involved" and they built these crude concrete benches covered in broken bathroom tiles formed into primitive mosaics directly outside this formal classical building, with total disregard for how this disfigured the dignity of the monument. It was like something the barbarians might have done after the fall of Rome and these foul things still stand and are now "historic" in their own right.

    http://inspicio.fiu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/GT115Signatur.jpg

    When I went to Gettysburg for a visit to the battlefield, I found it jam-packed with Southerners, younger people mostly, bemoaning the turning of the tide. Some things never change.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    I’ve been to Gettysburg a good few times and never experienced this. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a black touring the battlefield either. Clearly we weren’t there the same day. Blacks don’t seem very interested in the history of the war that was fought over them. Morgan Freeman narrated the film in the visitor center they have the kids on field trips sit through. I’m sure he did it for the money.
    , @anon
    When I went to Gettysburg for a visit to the battlefield, I found it jam-packed with Southerners, younger people mostly, bemoaning the turning of the tide.

    What century was that? The late 19th?

    You're comic relief, but Tiny Duck does it better. Take notes.
  333. @William Badwhite

    If what you said was true, then Philly and Baltimore would no longer have ports at all. But in fact they still do.
     
    Jack I'm not as negative on you as some of the other commenters here, but you have the lawyers' need to quibble on every point. You should stick to topics on which you are knowledgeable.

    Baltimore and Philadelphia have port traffic because they already have ports. See the part where I said "there is already some there there". Once the infrastructure - not just ports but the rail spurs, access to highways - is there there's going to be a certain amount of momentum and they'll likely always continue to get some traffic. Just not enough to justify building a major city around it if you were to start over.

    As I said, if you started the Eastern seaboard over Philly and Baltimore would be small towns. They are where they are for 18th century reasons. Nobody would put a major part in Baltimore today - why would they when they could stop at Norfolk? Btw Norfolk's commercial port traffic would likely be even bigger than it is (bigger than Baltimore and Philly combined) if it didn't also have the world's largest naval installation.

    I can look out my office window and watch ships coming and going at the Port of Miami. There aren't that many of them. Baltimore and Philly are both below Miami in terms of traffic.

    Once the infrastructure – not just ports but the rail spurs, access to highways – is there there’s going to be a certain amount of momentum

    Except that the modern port infrastructure is all container based and all newly built within the last 50 years while the old docks either lie abandoned or have been repurposed. And typically, the container port (e.g. Newark) is somewhere on a highway junction and quite removed from the historic port (the West Side of Manhattan) and the old docks had access to city streets but not to highways, most of which were also built in the last 50-70 years. Containerized freight was essentially a new business. If Norfolk had a truly massive advantage they wouldn’t have invested in building even smaller container ports in Baltimore and Philly. Other businesses (e.g. New England textile mills) didn’t just fade somewhat from their original locations, they relocated completely when they lost their economic advantage.

    You are proposing some sort of alternate history where OTOH, trucks and railroads exist and therefore Norfolk is favorably located vs Philly and Baltimore. But in an economy with trucks and railroads and airports and container ships, a sea port is not that big of an advantage to base a city on. In fact, with all of those trucks coming and going it’s a rather unappealing place.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite

    You are proposing some sort of alternate history where OTOH, trucks and railroads exist and therefore Norfolk is favorably located vs Philly and Baltimore.
     
    I'm not proposing an "alternate history". I'm saying Philly and Baltimore are where they are because 200+ years ago access to the sea was far more important than it is now. Btw, you have to go past Norfolk to get to Baltimore. That alone makes it more favorably located.

    But in an economy with trucks and railroads and airports and container ships, a sea port is not that big of an advantage to base a city on. In fact, with all of those trucks coming and going it’s a rather unappealing place.
     
    Nobody said anything about appealing. I've been to Norfolk countless times. Its a dump.
    , @Hibernian
    It just might be that there's some corporate welfare involved with the continuing port activities in Newark, Philadelphia, and Baltimore. OTOH, there's quite likely some in Norfolk, too.
  334. @Jack D

    Once the infrastructure – not just ports but the rail spurs, access to highways – is there there’s going to be a certain amount of momentum
     
    Except that the modern port infrastructure is all container based and all newly built within the last 50 years while the old docks either lie abandoned or have been repurposed. And typically, the container port (e.g. Newark) is somewhere on a highway junction and quite removed from the historic port (the West Side of Manhattan) and the old docks had access to city streets but not to highways, most of which were also built in the last 50-70 years. Containerized freight was essentially a new business. If Norfolk had a truly massive advantage they wouldn't have invested in building even smaller container ports in Baltimore and Philly. Other businesses (e.g. New England textile mills) didn't just fade somewhat from their original locations, they relocated completely when they lost their economic advantage.

    You are proposing some sort of alternate history where OTOH, trucks and railroads exist and therefore Norfolk is favorably located vs Philly and Baltimore. But in an economy with trucks and railroads and airports and container ships, a sea port is not that big of an advantage to base a city on. In fact, with all of those trucks coming and going it's a rather unappealing place.

    You are proposing some sort of alternate history where OTOH, trucks and railroads exist and therefore Norfolk is favorably located vs Philly and Baltimore.

    I’m not proposing an “alternate history”. I’m saying Philly and Baltimore are where they are because 200+ years ago access to the sea was far more important than it is now. Btw, you have to go past Norfolk to get to Baltimore. That alone makes it more favorably located.

    But in an economy with trucks and railroads and airports and container ships, a sea port is not that big of an advantage to base a city on. In fact, with all of those trucks coming and going it’s a rather unappealing place.

    Nobody said anything about appealing. I’ve been to Norfolk countless times. Its a dump.

  335. @Steve Sailer
    Replace elevators buttons with voice recognition?

    Replace elevators buttons with voice recognition?

    One thing to remember is that the door handles and subway bars “smear” transmission model is hypothetical and increasingly unlikely as a major factor in covid-19.

    Washing hands or sanitizing periodically is probably ok advice to some degree, but it’s also the government giving people a shamanic ritual to perform to make ourselves feel better.

  336. @Oscar Peterson
    Hey, Steve Sailer—What is your issue with my comments?

    My comment 304 sat in the review queue for at least three hours while other comments appeared one after another, to include several by the individual with whom I have been debating. It finally appeared as comment 299 only to have more comments dropped in behind it, moving it to 304 (for now.)

    You are the only one at this site who plays these games with the comments. Why?

    I have no problem dealing with the likes of Jack D., but how about keeping your thumb off the scale?

    If you really object to my comments why don’t you just say so instead of using surreptitious means to hinder my attempt to come to grips with my dishonest little friend?

    idk the details,but i don’t think it’s “editorial” in most cases.
    I believe there’s some level of “algorithm” behind the commenting that prefers frequent commenters.

    Also some people appear to have their comments go through immediately, while most people are held for manual (?) approval. idk if that’s a manual whitelist or some algorithmic scoring system.

    It makes quick discussions difficult, but i suspect the systems are in place to prevent the worst/most trite of the flaming and commenting.

    • Replies: @Oscar Peterson
    Well, I would like to think that.

    Maybe it is algorithmic, but that would be strange as Ron Unz has expressed irritation at the "mega-commenters" and suggested that he would like to reduce their ability to make so many comments, suggesting even charging people per comment above a certain level. So I find it hard to believe that the system is deliberately set up to promote mega-commenting.

    I think it's more likely to be something "manual," as you suggest--either whitelist or blacklist as established by Steve Sailer. Unz has said that he leaves comment moderation to individual authors/bloggers.

    It's doubly irritating, because not only did my comments sit in a queue for three hours, but 30 minutes after I submitted comment 305, a string of comments from Jack D began to pop up. Two and a half hours after that, my comment finally appears, and it still retained the time assigned to it when it went into the queue. In others words, it was "backdated" three hours and only appeared back "upstream" in the comment string rather than at the bottom with the new posts where the focal point of the string naturally resides. So it was semi-buried as well as being delayed.

    And the fact that he replied to three comments without having any intention of responding to my questions suggests a not-to-subtle message of "Why don't you just go somewhere else with your Jew-critical attitude? I'm just trying to run a business here!"

    Needless to say, I find Jack D a conniving and essentially deceitful Jew, although a talented operative no doubt. I had him in my crosshairs, but he managed to limp away and Sailer impeded me from following the blood trail.

    I'm sure you're right that Sailer wants to control the tone of the comments. But why? By contrast, Ron Unz pretty obviously doesn't give a damn what people write or what the outside world thinks of his writing. Even I am amazed at some of what he pens. But Steve Sailer is a different animal. One senses that he aspires to be let into the mainstream commentariat. And with the panopticon of organized Jewry and its eyeless gaze, I can only assume SS doesn't want it said that he is "fostering anti-Semitism" in is blog. One might have some sympathy for that, but it's funny, as this is a guy who has basically said for public consumption that blacks are dumb and have little impulse control. Yet, when it comes to Jews...

    I also wonder about Sailer's actual beliefs and goals, which are actually rather difficult to discern among all the sardonic micro-cultural observing he does. I suspect that he thinks much like Jared Taylor at American Renaissance, who has an unstated policy of deleting Jew-critical comments, while pretty much anything goes in connection with blacks, Muslims, gays, feminists, etc. Taylor and, I suspect, Sailer clearly feel that they must have Jews on board their "conservative" projects, whatever they are. The fundamental problem with that is that the Jew has so many demands that need to be met that by the time these guys are finished accommodating them, there is very little left that might be called culturally conservative around which to organize the larger movement.

    For all his acumen in identifying the absurd in our culture, Sailer gives me the strong impression that, at the end of the day, he is just another deferential goy.

  337. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    One great American tragedy is the sheer volume of historically significant places within Philadelphia which has been utterly lost to time - either neglect or blind progress. A lot of the rest of it simply isn't highlighted or celebrated for its historical significance. Neither the Commonwealth nor the City has ever done much to preserve, curate, and market these sites of national historical significance either. The weather is pleasant here particularly in the Fall.

    For example, the "Betsy Ross House" which you may visit in Philadelphia is actually not Ross's, but rather a very similar house of her neighbor which was preserved. They don't tell you that until the end of the tour. Tun Tavern burnt down during the Revolution, but its location is now the support system for I-95.

    For those of us who grew up here, it all tends to fade into the background and be taken for granted.

    For example, the “Betsy Ross House” which you may visit in Philadelphia is actually not Ross’s, but rather a very similar house of her neighbor which was preserved. They don’t tell you that until the end of the tour.

    This reminds me of an anecdote told me decades ago by a gentleman of very distinguished colonial-stock ancestry, who had come to Philadelphia to attend the annual meeting of one of the lineage societies. Because his train had arrived several hours before the meeting began, he thought he’d use the time to do some local sightseeing. He asked the taxicab driver to take him to Betsy Ross’s house.

    To this, cabbie replied “mister, haven’t you heard? We got a new police commissioner and he shut all them places down.”

  338. @obwandiyag
    When I went to Gettysburg for a visit to the battlefield, I found it jam-packed with Southerners, younger people mostly, bemoaning the turning of the tide. Some things never change.

    I’ve been to Gettysburg a good few times and never experienced this. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a black touring the battlefield either. Clearly we weren’t there the same day. Blacks don’t seem very interested in the history of the war that was fought over them. Morgan Freeman narrated the film in the visitor center they have the kids on field trips sit through. I’m sure he did it for the money.

  339. @vhrm

    Given that The Scary New Coronavirus might produce an entirely unremarkable spike-in-seasonal-flu-like death toll, if public transportation suffers from this, it’s yet another long-term net loss from the evil beast of CoronaPanic/CoronaHoax.
     
    Or we add better ventilation and filtration to stations and vehicles.

    Would likely help with existing crop of colds and flu as well as future ones.

    The hotspot pretty much stops at the boundaries of the NYC commuter belt and the suburban counties in New York and New Jersey are rich with fatal infections, which is what you’d expect if it were spread by mass transit. You’re maintaining it’s entirely due to aerosols?

    • Replies: @vhrm
    Idk if "entirely", but in the context of public transit it's probably a big contributor. OTOH i haven't seen any convincing evidence of the "contaminated surface" to hand to mouth or nose path; just "conventional wisdom" type arguments.

    AND aerial transmission by its nature can affect such a larger number of people that if we know it exists in any appreciable amount it HAS to be the prime suspect for spreading in crowds and the hand-wavy "close contacts" until proven otherwise.

    I'll add that it seems transmission on airplanes was relatively low even though intercontinental flights are quite long. One difference there is that airplanes circulate and filter the air in a possibly helpful way: blows in at the top, return vents at the bottom, 20-30 room air changes per hour, HEPA filters.
    (although it's considerably worse when on the ground, at least before they power up)


    notes:
    -china inter-City bus case where 1 dude didn't touch or talk to anyone (based on security cam footage), but infected ~6 people including: several behind him, one 4(?) meters away and one who didn't board the bus until 30 minutes after the source got off.

    - also the LA choir practice case where 45 out of 60 people who didn't touch each other were infected. https://www.businessinsider.com/two-people-dead-from-coronavirus-after-super-spreading-event-2020-3)

  340. @obwandiyag
    When I went to Gettysburg for a visit to the battlefield, I found it jam-packed with Southerners, younger people mostly, bemoaning the turning of the tide. Some things never change.

    When I went to Gettysburg for a visit to the battlefield, I found it jam-packed with Southerners, younger people mostly, bemoaning the turning of the tide.

    What century was that? The late 19th?

    You’re comic relief, but Tiny Duck does it better. Take notes.

  341. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    Al Kaline is obviously worthy of the Hall of Fame.

    http://www.hallofstats.com/player/kalinal01

    And I'm pretty sure James agrees, going so far as to say Kaline was not far off from Yastrzemski, who's regarded universally as a solid Hall of Famer.

    Kaline did enough to receive a nod to Cooperstown IMO as well. Speaking of Boston Red Sox left fielders, wonder if Jim Rice ever made it into the HOF? Be a shame if Rice didn’t. Would have to check and see if Rice was finally voted in or not. Another was Ron Santo of the Chicago Cubs. Both of these guys certainly belong, especially when you consider some of their stats vs some of the other guys that are in the MLB HOF. Same thing with football. Ken Stabler died before they FINALLY put him in the NFL HOF. Take a look at Stabler’s stats vs. someone like Joe Namath. Stabler’s stats are so much better, particularly percentage of passes completed. I don’t even think Namath completed 50% of his passes, if he did, it wasn’t much above 50%. It always helps to play in a big market like NYC or LA. IF Stabler had played most of his career for the Giants or Jets instead of in Oakland, he would have been in the HOF in his first year of eligibility, same thing with Kaline, if the guy would have played with the Yankees instead of the Tigers, he would have had an easier time making it into the HOF.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Hold up. Al Kaline was inducted in his first yr of eligibility (1980). Perhaps you're confusing him with Harmon Killebrew, who wasn't inducted until his third yr of eligility. Someone who hit 573 HR's (more than Mickey Mantle) and wasn't inducted his first yr.

    Jim Rice made it in, and still not sure why at all. He was very good, not great. It obviously helped that he played in a correct market team like BOS, and was active in the BOS sports media for helping him get in, and having a HOF sportswriter like BOS Peter Gammons go to bat for him.

    Stabler got in, and has no business in the HOF either. One superbowl win. ONE. Jim Plunkett won 2 with OAK. Also, Stabler has more career INT than TDs. The various other stats are borderline bs. If Stabler was all that, he would've proven it by winning. And he only won one time. See, if people want to claim that Ken Stabler performed at a consistently high level, that's all good. But consistency isnt great, though that's a part of it. There's no way that Ken Stabler is in the same sentence with someone like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. Or Montana, Elway, Marino, Young. See? When the QBs who were first ballot are named, it's like, "yeah, how'd that Oakland bum get in at all?" Exactly. Politics. It certainly helped that Stabler was part of the sports media (NCAA football announcing for Alabama) for a very long time. And, "If "ifs" were a fifth, we'd have Christmas every single day. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd have Christmas every day." But we don't.

    Long term careerwise, Stabler wasn't all that. Above Dan Pastorini, less than Dan Fouts from a pure stats position. Compare Stabler and Dan Fouts stats sometime, not even close. Stabler won a super bowl so that probably helped him eventually get in. And Fouts was a pure passing QB in the same era as Stabler. Stabler never threw for 4,000 yds in a single season. And as soon as Stabler left OAK, his career fizzled. Injuries and all, but he wasn't the same, and meanwhile, Plunkett took OAK to 2 Super Bowls. Why isn't Jim Plunkett in the HOF by that metric?

    This is called politics in the voting. Explain how Stabler is a HOFer and yet perennial all pro defensive end PIT LC Greenwood is still NOT in the HOF? He played in 4 Super bowls. And had about 6-8 sacks in them. He retired as PIT's all time leader in sacks. OAK wasn't in the same ballpark as PIT in the '70's. One has 4 championships from that decade, the other has 1.

    IF one says "Well, there's too many from one era that that team has, so it has too many." Except for the NFL's 100th season, they voted in PIT S Donnie Shell, which is fine. Donnie Shell certainly deserved being inducted way more than Ken Stabler. But then, the veterans committee after 50+ yrs of his retirement, suddenly induct GB G Jerry Kramer. Again, if he was all that, why'd they wait half a century to induct him? And he played for Vince Lombardi's vaunted Packer dynasty. Isn't there already enough in the HOF for GB from that era?

    See how politics and pettiness can directly impact the HOF voting?

    The only thing that Stabler did that got him inducted was he happened to die. No other reason. For QBs especially, if you're all that, (like Terry Bradshaw) then you go in your first or second yr of eligibility. It's not like Stabler's stats improved thirty plus yrs after his retirement.

    But LC Greenwood? Still not in? Come on!

    Here. This helps explains it all

    Are YOU that guy? Is Stabler that guy?

    NO
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92T_3ITjJgs
  342. @nebulafox
    Detroit's downtown core has been getting better in the post-Great Recession era-there are now tons of businesses and residential complexes and general life you would have never seen in 2012. The midtown around WSU got some spillover gains from the downtown revitalization, too.

    But everything outside of that is still a no-go zone, and downtown apartments have Brazilian-level security. Think the Badlands or Chicago's Southside, but in Detroit, it covers most of the city area rather than being a pocket.

    Interesting. I’d like to visit the areas you mentioned — on Google Streetview for now. So could you give me a few good streets to start with?

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    The areas right next to the downtown core like Greektown are generally safe, as is Midtown, the district with WSU in it. It's when you move out of that nucleus-a nucleus that has grown over the past decade, but a nucleus nonetheless-that you begin to see the stuff you see in YouTube videos about Detroit. The startups trying to revitalize Detroit have moved into the high-rises that used to be more or less empty, from my understanding.

    One thing that will stun you when you visit Detroit: when you arrive at the airport and drive toward the city, you will see something known as "urban prairie." Detroit used to be the fourth most populous city in the US in its heyday, next to NYC, Chicago, and Philadelphia. Massive population decline has led to a lot of suburbs and neighborhoods that were just abandoned. When the houses are eventually demolished, vegetation takes over, with the odd derelict building standing.

    It reminded me of what people said 6th Century Western Europe was like after the fall of Rome. Even in Constantinople, after the plague and the sieges ravaged the city, you had farmland sprout up where there would have been apartment buildings under Anastasius and Justinian.

  343. @Art Deco
    The hotspot pretty much stops at the boundaries of the NYC commuter belt and the suburban counties in New York and New Jersey are rich with fatal infections, which is what you'd expect if it were spread by mass transit. You're maintaining it's entirely due to aerosols?

    Idk if “entirely”, but in the context of public transit it’s probably a big contributor. OTOH i haven’t seen any convincing evidence of the “contaminated surface” to hand to mouth or nose path; just “conventional wisdom” type arguments.

    AND aerial transmission by its nature can affect such a larger number of people that if we know it exists in any appreciable amount it HAS to be the prime suspect for spreading in crowds and the hand-wavy “close contacts” until proven otherwise.

    I’ll add that it seems transmission on airplanes was relatively low even though intercontinental flights are quite long. One difference there is that airplanes circulate and filter the air in a possibly helpful way: blows in at the top, return vents at the bottom, 20-30 room air changes per hour, HEPA filters.
    (although it’s considerably worse when on the ground, at least before they power up)

    notes:
    -china inter-City bus case where 1 dude didn’t touch or talk to anyone (based on security cam footage), but infected ~6 people including: several behind him, one 4(?) meters away and one who didn’t board the bus until 30 minutes after the source got off.

    – also the LA choir practice case where 45 out of 60 people who didn’t touch each other were infected. https://www.businessinsider.com/two-people-dead-from-coronavirus-after-super-spreading-event-2020-3)

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    I wouldn't doubt it's a factor. About the bus case, I'd be interested in knowing where the air vents were vis a vis the nine people with a symptomatic infection. (They were all on an enclosed bus with the man for several hours). As for the choir, there's been some talk that they 'followed all the rules', but following the rules would have required they be deployed over a minimum of 3,200 sq feet of floor space, which is I'm going to wager notably larger than the nave of any small town protestant church you could find in my neck of the woods (aside from the awkwardness of holding a practice under those circumstances). They were all singing - inhaling and exhaling - for a couple of hours.
  344. @WGary
    I read that Linda Tripp had pancreatic cancer.

    I read that Linda Tripp had pancreatic cancer.

    What the opportunistic infection HRC-20 would refer to as plausible deniability.

    • Replies: @Coemgen
    I posted a non-controversial comment on Disqus (other than a reference to HRC-20 (or HRC-2020)).

    It was deleted by a moderator.
  345. @AceDeuce
    Dinner is in the evening. You come into Center City Philadelphia in the evening, and can park in a garage for $8 or $10? Are you writing from 1993?

    In Chicago you’re lucky if you can park downtown during the day on a weekend for$16.00 if you’re in by 9 and out by 7. This is near the edge of downtown on the Near North side.

  346. @Sam Haysom
    This is ridiculous- the perspective here is entirely yeoman not one bit aristocratic. I think that perspective is at this point contrived and as a descendent of Big Cotton I think they shovel way too much of the blame for slavery and blacks off onto the plantation owners- but almost no one here represents an old South moonlight and magnolia planter class point of view. This particular Jew drove a hard bargain- why is it an issue to depict that cupidity in a presentation about the history of the site?

    I did not direct the word “aristocrat” towards you or any other poster. I directed it towards those who were pressuring Mr. Levy to sell. I didn’t mean that they were plantation owners or their descendants or that they were necessarily Southern at all, although likely at least some of them were. I don’t think they were yeoman or yeowomen (think the farmers in Green Acres), with possibly a few exceptions. I was thinking only of Christian/Jewish relations, not White/Black or Northern/Southern ones. By aristocrat I meant more than just someone who is rich or even rich and educated. I meant what most people mean by that word and it could inlude merchant princes from New York, in competition with Jewish merchant princes, or Virginia gentlemen and gentlewomen, or people from the shady side of town in my Midwestern home town.

  347. @Jack D

    Once the infrastructure – not just ports but the rail spurs, access to highways – is there there’s going to be a certain amount of momentum
     
    Except that the modern port infrastructure is all container based and all newly built within the last 50 years while the old docks either lie abandoned or have been repurposed. And typically, the container port (e.g. Newark) is somewhere on a highway junction and quite removed from the historic port (the West Side of Manhattan) and the old docks had access to city streets but not to highways, most of which were also built in the last 50-70 years. Containerized freight was essentially a new business. If Norfolk had a truly massive advantage they wouldn't have invested in building even smaller container ports in Baltimore and Philly. Other businesses (e.g. New England textile mills) didn't just fade somewhat from their original locations, they relocated completely when they lost their economic advantage.

    You are proposing some sort of alternate history where OTOH, trucks and railroads exist and therefore Norfolk is favorably located vs Philly and Baltimore. But in an economy with trucks and railroads and airports and container ships, a sea port is not that big of an advantage to base a city on. In fact, with all of those trucks coming and going it's a rather unappealing place.

    It just might be that there’s some corporate welfare involved with the continuing port activities in Newark, Philadelphia, and Baltimore. OTOH, there’s quite likely some in Norfolk, too.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite

    OTOH, there’s quite likely some in Norfolk, too.
     
    I know you're referring to corporate welfare, but speaking of welfare - Norfolk has some serious welfare in the form of the bloated U.S. defense budget.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Station_Norfolk

    Four future dive sites/aircraft carriers are home ported there.
  348. Anon[420] • Disclaimer says:

    Philadelphia is a large town surrounded by miles of dangerous ghetto and some decent enough suburbs. The personalities of the denizens are largely shit across the board.

    NYC is a World class city with miles of almost unimaginable urban wealth in addition to its ghettos. That’s before we get to its wealthy suburbs in new Jersey and NY State that dwarf anything that Philadelphia conjures in any metric.

    The only thing the cities have in common are location. The people are also different, with New Yorkers being far more friendly and normal on the whole. There is a strange phenomenon in NYC, where its immensity creates an non-intuitive small town effect on the personalities of some people there because they have seldom left their burrough.

    I would imagine that density alone could account for the transmission difference. Like I said, Philly is a large town. Most of its residents live in the ghettos and the poor White version of such (what little is left) and they largely don’t congregate in 2020. The only density based risk would be across a couple of square miles of city area.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Visiting NYC with a small child in a stroller long ago was surprisingly pleasant with New Yorkers performing many acts of courtesy and kindness to make our day easier.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Hold up. Most of what you've said can easily be applied the other way. There are no ghettos in NY? There's no violent crime as of late there going on? Especially since the liberal mayor ended stop and frisk? If anything, NY has a well earned reputation across the board for the locals being rude, obnoxious, arrogant, and otherwise irritating to out of towners. Who was leading the US in drug problems for many decades in the 20th century? Not Philly.

    For balance sake: The US's fifth wealthiest zip code is Purchase, NY. The US's sixth richest zip code is Gladwyne, PA (suburb of Philly). Fairly close for the top zips of each region being among the US's top in per capita income.

    But there is one thing that NY is leading the US in right now currently. Both in deaths and in rate of infections. Philly is also up there as well.
  349. @Anon
    Philadelphia is a large town surrounded by miles of dangerous ghetto and some decent enough suburbs. The personalities of the denizens are largely shit across the board.

    NYC is a World class city with miles of almost unimaginable urban wealth in addition to its ghettos. That's before we get to its wealthy suburbs in new Jersey and NY State that dwarf anything that Philadelphia conjures in any metric.

    The only thing the cities have in common are location. The people are also different, with New Yorkers being far more friendly and normal on the whole. There is a strange phenomenon in NYC, where its immensity creates an non-intuitive small town effect on the personalities of some people there because they have seldom left their burrough.

    I would imagine that density alone could account for the transmission difference. Like I said, Philly is a large town. Most of its residents live in the ghettos and the poor White version of such (what little is left) and they largely don't congregate in 2020. The only density based risk would be across a couple of square miles of city area.

    Visiting NYC with a small child in a stroller long ago was surprisingly pleasant with New Yorkers performing many acts of courtesy and kindness to make our day easier.

  350. @Trinity
    Kaline did enough to receive a nod to Cooperstown IMO as well. Speaking of Boston Red Sox left fielders, wonder if Jim Rice ever made it into the HOF? Be a shame if Rice didn't. Would have to check and see if Rice was finally voted in or not. Another was Ron Santo of the Chicago Cubs. Both of these guys certainly belong, especially when you consider some of their stats vs some of the other guys that are in the MLB HOF. Same thing with football. Ken Stabler died before they FINALLY put him in the NFL HOF. Take a look at Stabler's stats vs. someone like Joe Namath. Stabler's stats are so much better, particularly percentage of passes completed. I don't even think Namath completed 50% of his passes, if he did, it wasn't much above 50%. It always helps to play in a big market like NYC or LA. IF Stabler had played most of his career for the Giants or Jets instead of in Oakland, he would have been in the HOF in his first year of eligibility, same thing with Kaline, if the guy would have played with the Yankees instead of the Tigers, he would have had an easier time making it into the HOF.

    Hold up. Al Kaline was inducted in his first yr of eligibility (1980). Perhaps you’re confusing him with Harmon Killebrew, who wasn’t inducted until his third yr of eligility. Someone who hit 573 HR’s (more than Mickey Mantle) and wasn’t inducted his first yr.

    Jim Rice made it in, and still not sure why at all. He was very good, not great. It obviously helped that he played in a correct market team like BOS, and was active in the BOS sports media for helping him get in, and having a HOF sportswriter like BOS Peter Gammons go to bat for him.

    Stabler got in, and has no business in the HOF either. One superbowl win. ONE. Jim Plunkett won 2 with OAK. Also, Stabler has more career INT than TDs. The various other stats are borderline bs. If Stabler was all that, he would’ve proven it by winning. And he only won one time. See, if people want to claim that Ken Stabler performed at a consistently high level, that’s all good. But consistency isnt great, though that’s a part of it. There’s no way that Ken Stabler is in the same sentence with someone like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. Or Montana, Elway, Marino, Young. See? When the QBs who were first ballot are named, it’s like, “yeah, how’d that Oakland bum get in at all?” Exactly. Politics. It certainly helped that Stabler was part of the sports media (NCAA football announcing for Alabama) for a very long time. And, “If “ifs” were a fifth, we’d have Christmas every single day. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d have Christmas every day.” But we don’t.

    Long term careerwise, Stabler wasn’t all that. Above Dan Pastorini, less than Dan Fouts from a pure stats position. Compare Stabler and Dan Fouts stats sometime, not even close. Stabler won a super bowl so that probably helped him eventually get in. And Fouts was a pure passing QB in the same era as Stabler. Stabler never threw for 4,000 yds in a single season. And as soon as Stabler left OAK, his career fizzled. Injuries and all, but he wasn’t the same, and meanwhile, Plunkett took OAK to 2 Super Bowls. Why isn’t Jim Plunkett in the HOF by that metric?

    This is called politics in the voting. Explain how Stabler is a HOFer and yet perennial all pro defensive end PIT LC Greenwood is still NOT in the HOF? He played in 4 Super bowls. And had about 6-8 sacks in them. He retired as PIT’s all time leader in sacks. OAK wasn’t in the same ballpark as PIT in the ’70’s. One has 4 championships from that decade, the other has 1.

    IF one says “Well, there’s too many from one era that that team has, so it has too many.” Except for the NFL’s 100th season, they voted in PIT S Donnie Shell, which is fine. Donnie Shell certainly deserved being inducted way more than Ken Stabler. But then, the veterans committee after 50+ yrs of his retirement, suddenly induct GB G Jerry Kramer. Again, if he was all that, why’d they wait half a century to induct him? And he played for Vince Lombardi’s vaunted Packer dynasty. Isn’t there already enough in the HOF for GB from that era?

    See how politics and pettiness can directly impact the HOF voting?

    The only thing that Stabler did that got him inducted was he happened to die. No other reason. For QBs especially, if you’re all that, (like Terry Bradshaw) then you go in your first or second yr of eligibility. It’s not like Stabler’s stats improved thirty plus yrs after his retirement.

    But LC Greenwood? Still not in? Come on!

    Here. This helps explains it all

    Are YOU that guy? Is Stabler that guy?

    NO

    • Replies: @Trinity
    I was pretty sure Kaline made it in because he was a member of the 3,000 hit club, but I thought I read a comment from another poster, ( not the one that I was responding to) claim Kaline wasn't in the MLB HOF. I did a search and you are right, Kaline made it in the HOF in 1980, and Rice and Santo FINALLY MADE IT IN. Disagree with Rice and The Snake, both of these guys belong in their respective HOFs. Sure, Stabler isn't Tom Brady, but he was better than Namath, who like Stabler only won one Super Bowl. And if I am not mistaken, Namath played on more losing teams in his career than winners, not so with Stabler. Oakland was always in the playoff hunt back in those days. Marino? Marino NEVER won a Super Bowl, but admittedly he is a level above Stabler. Dan Fouts? Absolutely better than Stabler but Jim Plunkett, nah, no way. There are people in HOFs in boxing and rock and roll who shouldn't be there as well. Ray Mancini in boxing? You have to be kidding me. Meanwhile a guy like Marvin Johnson is not in the IBHOF? I think Johnson made into some lesser version of a boxing HOF though for whatever that is worth. And since we are talking about Philadelphia, watch Marvin Johnson vs. Saad Muhammad I &II for what boxing used to be like in the golden age of that sport. And some of the rock and roll inductees are just beyond pathetic. Anyhow, I agree with some of your post and disagree with Stabler and Rice not being HOF worthy.
  351. @Anon
    Philadelphia is a large town surrounded by miles of dangerous ghetto and some decent enough suburbs. The personalities of the denizens are largely shit across the board.

    NYC is a World class city with miles of almost unimaginable urban wealth in addition to its ghettos. That's before we get to its wealthy suburbs in new Jersey and NY State that dwarf anything that Philadelphia conjures in any metric.

    The only thing the cities have in common are location. The people are also different, with New Yorkers being far more friendly and normal on the whole. There is a strange phenomenon in NYC, where its immensity creates an non-intuitive small town effect on the personalities of some people there because they have seldom left their burrough.

    I would imagine that density alone could account for the transmission difference. Like I said, Philly is a large town. Most of its residents live in the ghettos and the poor White version of such (what little is left) and they largely don't congregate in 2020. The only density based risk would be across a couple of square miles of city area.

    Hold up. Most of what you’ve said can easily be applied the other way. There are no ghettos in NY? There’s no violent crime as of late there going on? Especially since the liberal mayor ended stop and frisk? If anything, NY has a well earned reputation across the board for the locals being rude, obnoxious, arrogant, and otherwise irritating to out of towners. Who was leading the US in drug problems for many decades in the 20th century? Not Philly.

    For balance sake: The US’s fifth wealthiest zip code is Purchase, NY. The US’s sixth richest zip code is Gladwyne, PA (suburb of Philly). Fairly close for the top zips of each region being among the US’s top in per capita income.

    But there is one thing that NY is leading the US in right now currently. Both in deaths and in rate of infections. Philly is also up there as well.

  352. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Hold up. Al Kaline was inducted in his first yr of eligibility (1980). Perhaps you're confusing him with Harmon Killebrew, who wasn't inducted until his third yr of eligility. Someone who hit 573 HR's (more than Mickey Mantle) and wasn't inducted his first yr.

    Jim Rice made it in, and still not sure why at all. He was very good, not great. It obviously helped that he played in a correct market team like BOS, and was active in the BOS sports media for helping him get in, and having a HOF sportswriter like BOS Peter Gammons go to bat for him.

    Stabler got in, and has no business in the HOF either. One superbowl win. ONE. Jim Plunkett won 2 with OAK. Also, Stabler has more career INT than TDs. The various other stats are borderline bs. If Stabler was all that, he would've proven it by winning. And he only won one time. See, if people want to claim that Ken Stabler performed at a consistently high level, that's all good. But consistency isnt great, though that's a part of it. There's no way that Ken Stabler is in the same sentence with someone like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning. Or Montana, Elway, Marino, Young. See? When the QBs who were first ballot are named, it's like, "yeah, how'd that Oakland bum get in at all?" Exactly. Politics. It certainly helped that Stabler was part of the sports media (NCAA football announcing for Alabama) for a very long time. And, "If "ifs" were a fifth, we'd have Christmas every single day. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd have Christmas every day." But we don't.

    Long term careerwise, Stabler wasn't all that. Above Dan Pastorini, less than Dan Fouts from a pure stats position. Compare Stabler and Dan Fouts stats sometime, not even close. Stabler won a super bowl so that probably helped him eventually get in. And Fouts was a pure passing QB in the same era as Stabler. Stabler never threw for 4,000 yds in a single season. And as soon as Stabler left OAK, his career fizzled. Injuries and all, but he wasn't the same, and meanwhile, Plunkett took OAK to 2 Super Bowls. Why isn't Jim Plunkett in the HOF by that metric?

    This is called politics in the voting. Explain how Stabler is a HOFer and yet perennial all pro defensive end PIT LC Greenwood is still NOT in the HOF? He played in 4 Super bowls. And had about 6-8 sacks in them. He retired as PIT's all time leader in sacks. OAK wasn't in the same ballpark as PIT in the '70's. One has 4 championships from that decade, the other has 1.

    IF one says "Well, there's too many from one era that that team has, so it has too many." Except for the NFL's 100th season, they voted in PIT S Donnie Shell, which is fine. Donnie Shell certainly deserved being inducted way more than Ken Stabler. But then, the veterans committee after 50+ yrs of his retirement, suddenly induct GB G Jerry Kramer. Again, if he was all that, why'd they wait half a century to induct him? And he played for Vince Lombardi's vaunted Packer dynasty. Isn't there already enough in the HOF for GB from that era?

    See how politics and pettiness can directly impact the HOF voting?

    The only thing that Stabler did that got him inducted was he happened to die. No other reason. For QBs especially, if you're all that, (like Terry Bradshaw) then you go in your first or second yr of eligibility. It's not like Stabler's stats improved thirty plus yrs after his retirement.

    But LC Greenwood? Still not in? Come on!

    Here. This helps explains it all

    Are YOU that guy? Is Stabler that guy?

    NO
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92T_3ITjJgs

    I was pretty sure Kaline made it in because he was a member of the 3,000 hit club, but I thought I read a comment from another poster, ( not the one that I was responding to) claim Kaline wasn’t in the MLB HOF. I did a search and you are right, Kaline made it in the HOF in 1980, and Rice and Santo FINALLY MADE IT IN. Disagree with Rice and The Snake, both of these guys belong in their respective HOFs. Sure, Stabler isn’t Tom Brady, but he was better than Namath, who like Stabler only won one Super Bowl. And if I am not mistaken, Namath played on more losing teams in his career than winners, not so with Stabler. Oakland was always in the playoff hunt back in those days. Marino? Marino NEVER won a Super Bowl, but admittedly he is a level above Stabler. Dan Fouts? Absolutely better than Stabler but Jim Plunkett, nah, no way. There are people in HOFs in boxing and rock and roll who shouldn’t be there as well. Ray Mancini in boxing? You have to be kidding me. Meanwhile a guy like Marvin Johnson is not in the IBHOF? I think Johnson made into some lesser version of a boxing HOF though for whatever that is worth. And since we are talking about Philadelphia, watch Marvin Johnson vs. Saad Muhammad I &II for what boxing used to be like in the golden age of that sport. And some of the rock and roll inductees are just beyond pathetic. Anyhow, I agree with some of your post and disagree with Stabler and Rice not being HOF worthy.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Stabler was kind of the second coming of Namath: really great when he was at his best, but threw a lot of interceptions when he wasn't.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "Disagree with Rice and The Snake, both of these guys belong in their respective HOFs."

    Rice didn't have 3,000 H nor 500 HRs. He was very good, not great. At least I can understand a reasoning for him.

    Stabler was good. His stats are very much similar to Namath, who shouldn't be in the HOF either, except for one thing: He won in NY. If he had won his super bowl with a small market team, he wouldn't be in the HOF, that I concur.


    "Sure, Stabler isn’t Tom Brady"

    Bingo. Stabler does not belong in the HOF. Period. With a HOF, you should be able to name various players of the same position and there shouldn't be any pause, or doubt or a "Yeah, but what about..."

    If I name HOFers like Montana, Marino, Young, Elway, no one is going to argue that those guys are creampuffs and don't belong in the HOF. They were all great. Period. Their stats more than prove it, or they did something that no one else had seen. before up to that time.

    "but he was better than Namath, who like Stabler only won one Super Bowl."

    I agree about Namath, I get why he's in, because of Super Bowl III and that's it. He doesn't deserve it either but he played in NY. Heck, Namath wasn't anywhere close to the level of John Unitas one of the NFL's all time greatest players, PERIOD.


    "And if I am not mistaken, Namath played on more losing teams in his career than winners, not so with Stabler. Oakland was always in the playoff hunt back in those days."

    That's not good enough, you just made my point. You don't induct the leader of the team who always lost to the big dog. You induct the big dog, the leader on the team that kicked the butt of the bridesmaid. Ken Stabler was a bridesmaid. Terry Bradshaw was the bride. He got it done four times.

    IF Stabler had won five AFC Championships and played in five superbowls and won at least three of them, then no question he'd have been first ballot HOF. But he didn't. He lost. HOUS QB Dan Pastorini led the Oilers to two AFC Title games, but he's not in the HOF.


    "Marino? Marino NEVER won a Super Bowl, but admittedly he is a level above Stabler."

    Marino threw for 5,000yrds and 48 TDS. Stabler never came close to that level. And THATS the point. Neither in stats nor in winning championships does Stabler come anywhere close to being in the HOF. If he had earned that privilege, he would've been inducted first ballot, as most dominant QBs are.

    The fact that you admit that Stabler isn't anywhere close to the dominant QBs that were named proves my point. You should be able to put HOF QBs in the same sentence and not feel embarrassed or have to pause "Well,...but maybe not necessarily." Doesn't matter the era that they played in. People know who the greatest players are of any era. Stabler was good, not great. At least Fran Tarkenton went to three super bowls. And his stats (has nearly 150 more career TDs than Stabler) are way better than Stabler's.

    I mean, if Stabler's in, how about Vinnie Testeverde? And why not? Or Bernie Kozar?

    I get it if you're an OAK fan. Otherwise there's no reason for it. Stabler wasn't all that. A good player, not a great one. If he were, he'd have been first ballot as the great ones are.

    It's like, if I name MIN Alan Page and PIT Joe Greene. No question that they belong in the same sentence. And that's the point.

    The only thing Stabler did after retirement to make his HOF case was to die. That was it, because his stats certainly didn't make the case for him. If they had, he'd have been in on the first ballot. QBs almost always are.

  353. @Trinity
    I was pretty sure Kaline made it in because he was a member of the 3,000 hit club, but I thought I read a comment from another poster, ( not the one that I was responding to) claim Kaline wasn't in the MLB HOF. I did a search and you are right, Kaline made it in the HOF in 1980, and Rice and Santo FINALLY MADE IT IN. Disagree with Rice and The Snake, both of these guys belong in their respective HOFs. Sure, Stabler isn't Tom Brady, but he was better than Namath, who like Stabler only won one Super Bowl. And if I am not mistaken, Namath played on more losing teams in his career than winners, not so with Stabler. Oakland was always in the playoff hunt back in those days. Marino? Marino NEVER won a Super Bowl, but admittedly he is a level above Stabler. Dan Fouts? Absolutely better than Stabler but Jim Plunkett, nah, no way. There are people in HOFs in boxing and rock and roll who shouldn't be there as well. Ray Mancini in boxing? You have to be kidding me. Meanwhile a guy like Marvin Johnson is not in the IBHOF? I think Johnson made into some lesser version of a boxing HOF though for whatever that is worth. And since we are talking about Philadelphia, watch Marvin Johnson vs. Saad Muhammad I &II for what boxing used to be like in the golden age of that sport. And some of the rock and roll inductees are just beyond pathetic. Anyhow, I agree with some of your post and disagree with Stabler and Rice not being HOF worthy.

    Stabler was kind of the second coming of Namath: really great when he was at his best, but threw a lot of interceptions when he wasn’t.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    It isn't the hall of very good. It's "Are you that guy? The one that changed the game and shows the experts something that they've never seen before?" In case of Stabler the answer is no. Obviously his peers didn't think so when he first retired or he would've been a first ballot, if not a second ballot. And QBs more than other position in the NFL, if they're dominant, generally get inducted the quickest, before any other position player.

    Example, who thinks that Peyton Manning is going to have to wait years to get inducted? His first year of eligibility for induction is 2021, so come this December, it's more than likely that Manning makes the qualifying rounds for HOF induction.

    I'm sorry, but I simply can't put Ken Stabler and Peyton Manning together in the same sentence. If OAK fans are honest, neither can they. I can't even put Ken Stabler and Dan Marino (much less Terry Bradshaw) in the same sentence.

    Ultimately, especially for the position of QB, the question is 'Did you win?' And for the most part when it mattered, Stabler did not. He was not that guy. His contemporary, Terry Bradshaw, with four championships, was that guy. Dan Fouts for his time was also that guy. Fouts paved the way for Dan Marino. Back in the '70's, QBs just didn't throw for 4,000 yrds and 30 plus TDs. Sure, Unitas, Tarkenton and maybe another had thrown for 30 TDs here and there, but with 4,000 yrds passing? Unheard of. Basic stats, Stabler is fine enough but nothing fancy.

    But again. If he's that guy, then he would have proven so by winning. OAK went to five straight AFC Title games and lost all but one. That's a poor track record. I do sometimes think to a great extent that HOF voting is largely political and petty. Certain players face hurdles to get in while others of the same quality have either no problem getting in or they finally get inducted for reasons that remain obscure.

    If Stabler was all that, he would've been inducted first ballot. He was quite famous when he retired. Terry Bradshaw had no difficulty getting inducted on the first ballot. But then, winning championships (twice Super Bowl MVP) tends to do that.
    , @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    I think what you may be referring to is that Stabler played in some amazing games that required somewhat heroic comebacks. "The Sea of Hands"; "Ghost to the Post"; and of course, the "Holy Roller", though admittedly the last game wouldn't count as a victory as the rules regarding forward fumbles by a team have been changed since that time.

    The Sea of Hands was a great game, no question. Too bad that the following week, Stabler couldn't continue the dominancy vs PIT, which went on to win the Super Bowl that yr. Same thing after the amazing OT game Ghost to the Post. OAK lost to DEN that yr which went on to the Super Bowl.

    Basically Stabler was inconsistent. Had some amazing comebacks in some big games, but when certain games were on the line (e.g. AFC Title game) he lost four out of five. He was a popular QB during his career, which should've helped him get inducted on first or at least second ballot. But the voters looked at his entire career and simply weren't impressed with his overall record. They didn't think that Stabler was that guy. In some ways, Archie Manning was a poor man's Ken Stabler. Just as talented, but had the misfortune to play on a losing team for most of his career.

    Knowing the powers that be, however, wouldn't be a bit surprised if the Veterans Committee doesn't induct Archie Manning at some future point.

  354. @Steve Sailer
    Stabler was kind of the second coming of Namath: really great when he was at his best, but threw a lot of interceptions when he wasn't.

    It isn’t the hall of very good. It’s “Are you that guy? The one that changed the game and shows the experts something that they’ve never seen before?” In case of Stabler the answer is no. Obviously his peers didn’t think so when he first retired or he would’ve been a first ballot, if not a second ballot. And QBs more than other position in the NFL, if they’re dominant, generally get inducted the quickest, before any other position player.

    Example, who thinks that Peyton Manning is going to have to wait years to get inducted? His first year of eligibility for induction is 2021, so come this December, it’s more than likely that Manning makes the qualifying rounds for HOF induction.

    I’m sorry, but I simply can’t put Ken Stabler and Peyton Manning together in the same sentence. If OAK fans are honest, neither can they. I can’t even put Ken Stabler and Dan Marino (much less Terry Bradshaw) in the same sentence.

    Ultimately, especially for the position of QB, the question is ‘Did you win?’ And for the most part when it mattered, Stabler did not. He was not that guy. His contemporary, Terry Bradshaw, with four championships, was that guy. Dan Fouts for his time was also that guy. Fouts paved the way for Dan Marino. Back in the ’70’s, QBs just didn’t throw for 4,000 yrds and 30 plus TDs. Sure, Unitas, Tarkenton and maybe another had thrown for 30 TDs here and there, but with 4,000 yrds passing? Unheard of. Basic stats, Stabler is fine enough but nothing fancy.

    But again. If he’s that guy, then he would have proven so by winning. OAK went to five straight AFC Title games and lost all but one. That’s a poor track record. I do sometimes think to a great extent that HOF voting is largely political and petty. Certain players face hurdles to get in while others of the same quality have either no problem getting in or they finally get inducted for reasons that remain obscure.

    If Stabler was all that, he would’ve been inducted first ballot. He was quite famous when he retired. Terry Bradshaw had no difficulty getting inducted on the first ballot. But then, winning championships (twice Super Bowl MVP) tends to do that.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    Aaron Rogers is a consensus choice to get in on the first ballot and the Pack with him as QB won only one of four NFC championship games; the one they won was followed by a Super Bowl win. His prima donna attitude and getting Mike McCarthy fired won't keep him out. His stats are great but I think there's more to it than that. The Pack is widely hated, but also widely loved. They're Lombardi's team.
  355. @Trinity
    I was pretty sure Kaline made it in because he was a member of the 3,000 hit club, but I thought I read a comment from another poster, ( not the one that I was responding to) claim Kaline wasn't in the MLB HOF. I did a search and you are right, Kaline made it in the HOF in 1980, and Rice and Santo FINALLY MADE IT IN. Disagree with Rice and The Snake, both of these guys belong in their respective HOFs. Sure, Stabler isn't Tom Brady, but he was better than Namath, who like Stabler only won one Super Bowl. And if I am not mistaken, Namath played on more losing teams in his career than winners, not so with Stabler. Oakland was always in the playoff hunt back in those days. Marino? Marino NEVER won a Super Bowl, but admittedly he is a level above Stabler. Dan Fouts? Absolutely better than Stabler but Jim Plunkett, nah, no way. There are people in HOFs in boxing and rock and roll who shouldn't be there as well. Ray Mancini in boxing? You have to be kidding me. Meanwhile a guy like Marvin Johnson is not in the IBHOF? I think Johnson made into some lesser version of a boxing HOF though for whatever that is worth. And since we are talking about Philadelphia, watch Marvin Johnson vs. Saad Muhammad I &II for what boxing used to be like in the golden age of that sport. And some of the rock and roll inductees are just beyond pathetic. Anyhow, I agree with some of your post and disagree with Stabler and Rice not being HOF worthy.

    “Disagree with Rice and The Snake, both of these guys belong in their respective HOFs.”

    Rice didn’t have 3,000 H nor 500 HRs. He was very good, not great. At least I can understand a reasoning for him.

    Stabler was good. His stats are very much similar to Namath, who shouldn’t be in the HOF either, except for one thing: He won in NY. If he had won his super bowl with a small market team, he wouldn’t be in the HOF, that I concur.

    “Sure, Stabler isn’t Tom Brady”

    Bingo. Stabler does not belong in the HOF. Period. With a HOF, you should be able to name various players of the same position and there shouldn’t be any pause, or doubt or a “Yeah, but what about…”

    If I name HOFers like Montana, Marino, Young, Elway, no one is going to argue that those guys are creampuffs and don’t belong in the HOF. They were all great. Period. Their stats more than prove it, or they did something that no one else had seen. before up to that time.

    “but he was better than Namath, who like Stabler only won one Super Bowl.”

    I agree about Namath, I get why he’s in, because of Super Bowl III and that’s it. He doesn’t deserve it either but he played in NY. Heck, Namath wasn’t anywhere close to the level of John Unitas one of the NFL’s all time greatest players, PERIOD.

    “And if I am not mistaken, Namath played on more losing teams in his career than winners, not so with Stabler. Oakland was always in the playoff hunt back in those days.”

    That’s not good enough, you just made my point. You don’t induct the leader of the team who always lost to the big dog. You induct the big dog, the leader on the team that kicked the butt of the bridesmaid. Ken Stabler was a bridesmaid. Terry Bradshaw was the bride. He got it done four times.

    IF Stabler had won five AFC Championships and played in five superbowls and won at least three of them, then no question he’d have been first ballot HOF. But he didn’t. He lost. HOUS QB Dan Pastorini led the Oilers to two AFC Title games, but he’s not in the HOF.

    “Marino? Marino NEVER won a Super Bowl, but admittedly he is a level above Stabler.”

    Marino threw for 5,000yrds and 48 TDS. Stabler never came close to that level. And THATS the point. Neither in stats nor in winning championships does Stabler come anywhere close to being in the HOF. If he had earned that privilege, he would’ve been inducted first ballot, as most dominant QBs are.

    The fact that you admit that Stabler isn’t anywhere close to the dominant QBs that were named proves my point. You should be able to put HOF QBs in the same sentence and not feel embarrassed or have to pause “Well,…but maybe not necessarily.” Doesn’t matter the era that they played in. People know who the greatest players are of any era. Stabler was good, not great. At least Fran Tarkenton went to three super bowls. And his stats (has nearly 150 more career TDs than Stabler) are way better than Stabler’s.

    I mean, if Stabler’s in, how about Vinnie Testeverde? And why not? Or Bernie Kozar?

    I get it if you’re an OAK fan. Otherwise there’s no reason for it. Stabler wasn’t all that. A good player, not a great one. If he were, he’d have been first ballot as the great ones are.

    It’s like, if I name MIN Alan Page and PIT Joe Greene. No question that they belong in the same sentence. And that’s the point.

    The only thing Stabler did after retirement to make his HOF case was to die. That was it, because his stats certainly didn’t make the case for him. If they had, he’d have been in on the first ballot. QBs almost always are.

  356. @Hebrew National
    Interesting. I'd like to visit the areas you mentioned — on Google Streetview for now. So could you give me a few good streets to start with?

    The areas right next to the downtown core like Greektown are generally safe, as is Midtown, the district with WSU in it. It’s when you move out of that nucleus-a nucleus that has grown over the past decade, but a nucleus nonetheless-that you begin to see the stuff you see in YouTube videos about Detroit. The startups trying to revitalize Detroit have moved into the high-rises that used to be more or less empty, from my understanding.

    One thing that will stun you when you visit Detroit: when you arrive at the airport and drive toward the city, you will see something known as “urban prairie.” Detroit used to be the fourth most populous city in the US in its heyday, next to NYC, Chicago, and Philadelphia. Massive population decline has led to a lot of suburbs and neighborhoods that were just abandoned. When the houses are eventually demolished, vegetation takes over, with the odd derelict building standing.

    It reminded me of what people said 6th Century Western Europe was like after the fall of Rome. Even in Constantinople, after the plague and the sieges ravaged the city, you had farmland sprout up where there would have been apartment buildings under Anastasius and Justinian.

  357. @William Badwhite

    St. Louis is similar; began because of the river trade.
     
    Thanks. Its kind of interesting looking into why cities are where they are. For example, Richmond Virginia is about as far up the James River as is navigable to ships. SE of Richmond the James is deep and tidal. NW of it and the river turns shallower and fast running. In case people think I was unfair to Baltimore and Philly, I'd add Richmond to the list of cities that exist for 18th century reasons.

    One city I've not figured out - Dallas. As far as I can tell there's no real reason for Dallas to be where it is.

    My vague impression is that Dallas is Dallas because its boosters out-boosted every other small town’s boosters in the region.

  358. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    How about you close the circle, so to speak. WHICH certain ethnic group (in times past designated as a race), is so enthusiastic about cities for their own sakes, and living in them, and thinking they are the gosh grand dad bestest of all places in which to reside? (e.g. Revolutionary Road, and other books that cast aspersions vs anywhere but city living and city life in general).

    Which group? One that has lived in Europe and the US for at least 2,000 yrs? It alone has influenced, persuaded other groups to adore the city, but its particular zeal and ardor for the city and all its benefits is perhaps unmatched.

    Hint: It's also called J--York, and Hy---Town for a reason. Most other white ethnic groups, when given a choice, don't particularly relish living in the city as opposed to the country, or the suburbs in modern times, if they don't have to. Things that make you go hm...Because that particular ethnic group doesn't particularly relish living in the country, and tends to put down suburbs via pejoratives such as "sprawl" and "white flight".

    Wonder why that is?

    It has been my observation that those to whom you refer enthusiastically and voluntarily prefer to reside in apartment blocks that, to me, closely resemble the famous mid-twentieth century constructions of the German National Socialists.
    Century Villages, there are many of them in these parts.

  359. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    It isn't the hall of very good. It's "Are you that guy? The one that changed the game and shows the experts something that they've never seen before?" In case of Stabler the answer is no. Obviously his peers didn't think so when he first retired or he would've been a first ballot, if not a second ballot. And QBs more than other position in the NFL, if they're dominant, generally get inducted the quickest, before any other position player.

    Example, who thinks that Peyton Manning is going to have to wait years to get inducted? His first year of eligibility for induction is 2021, so come this December, it's more than likely that Manning makes the qualifying rounds for HOF induction.

    I'm sorry, but I simply can't put Ken Stabler and Peyton Manning together in the same sentence. If OAK fans are honest, neither can they. I can't even put Ken Stabler and Dan Marino (much less Terry Bradshaw) in the same sentence.

    Ultimately, especially for the position of QB, the question is 'Did you win?' And for the most part when it mattered, Stabler did not. He was not that guy. His contemporary, Terry Bradshaw, with four championships, was that guy. Dan Fouts for his time was also that guy. Fouts paved the way for Dan Marino. Back in the '70's, QBs just didn't throw for 4,000 yrds and 30 plus TDs. Sure, Unitas, Tarkenton and maybe another had thrown for 30 TDs here and there, but with 4,000 yrds passing? Unheard of. Basic stats, Stabler is fine enough but nothing fancy.

    But again. If he's that guy, then he would have proven so by winning. OAK went to five straight AFC Title games and lost all but one. That's a poor track record. I do sometimes think to a great extent that HOF voting is largely political and petty. Certain players face hurdles to get in while others of the same quality have either no problem getting in or they finally get inducted for reasons that remain obscure.

    If Stabler was all that, he would've been inducted first ballot. He was quite famous when he retired. Terry Bradshaw had no difficulty getting inducted on the first ballot. But then, winning championships (twice Super Bowl MVP) tends to do that.

    Aaron Rogers is a consensus choice to get in on the first ballot and the Pack with him as QB won only one of four NFC championship games; the one they won was followed by a Super Bowl win. His prima donna attitude and getting Mike McCarthy fired won’t keep him out. His stats are great but I think there’s more to it than that. The Pack is widely hated, but also widely loved. They’re Lombardi’s team.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    I agree that its still Lombardi's team. That's why the HOF inducted G Jerry Kramer a couple yrs ago, even though he retired in 1968. Come on. His stats didn't get all better all of sudden. The voting committee deliberately kept out PIT G Alan Faneca, one of the NFL's most dominant offensive lineman of the early 21st century. Faneca made 9 pro bowls, was all pro 6 times, and was on the NFL's all time team for the 2000's (team of the decade). For the last few yrs since he's been eligible for the HOF, he keeps making the final round but coming up short. That is disgraceful. But again, that shows how little certain positions like offensive linemen in general are held. If it came to a choice between a current dominant player and one who played under Lombardi, then they went with Lombardi.

    Aaron Rogers is HOF first ballot because he's a QB, which generally go in on the first ballot if they were dominant. His stats more than bear this out. If Alan Faneca had played QB, he'd be in the HOF by now, no question. With QB's there's no question about getting inducted immediately as they are usually the face of their franchises.

    Peyton Manning's first year is 2021. I doubt that Manning will have to wait to be inducted into the HOF.
  360. @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    One great American tragedy is the sheer volume of historically significant places within Philadelphia which has been utterly lost to time - either neglect or blind progress. A lot of the rest of it simply isn't highlighted or celebrated for its historical significance. Neither the Commonwealth nor the City has ever done much to preserve, curate, and market these sites of national historical significance either. The weather is pleasant here particularly in the Fall.

    For example, the "Betsy Ross House" which you may visit in Philadelphia is actually not Ross's, but rather a very similar house of her neighbor which was preserved. They don't tell you that until the end of the tour. Tun Tavern burnt down during the Revolution, but its location is now the support system for I-95.

    For those of us who grew up here, it all tends to fade into the background and be taken for granted.

    There was a time when living in Bucks County was considered blessed.

  361. @Daniel Williams
    I bet it’s the subway. I bet that’s how it spread, with low-paid nursing home attendees and nurses picking it up there and spreading it to the olds they’re in charge of.

    The NYC subway is unlike any other mass transit system in the United States. The Philly thing is like the DC metro or Trimet in Portland or whatever—the answer to a riddle, not serious everyday transportation for a huge portion of a world-class city’s population.

    New York subways are busier, grosser, and better utilized than anything in Philadelphia. They go more places more often, and link more people. I have a hard time imagining a better way to spread a respiratory infection.

    What about Chicago? Not as dense as NYC, but the El has just as disgusting cars with obese black males, but not coming up with NYC numbers.

    Density alone doesn’t explain things. Ethnicity alone doesn’t explain things. How early a city “shut down” (let’s be honest, no one has really implemented anything but half assed measures) doesn’t seem to explain things. Even if NYC is overcounting deaths, it’s hard to figure out exactly why they have fared the worst so far.

  362. @vhrm
    Idk if "entirely", but in the context of public transit it's probably a big contributor. OTOH i haven't seen any convincing evidence of the "contaminated surface" to hand to mouth or nose path; just "conventional wisdom" type arguments.

    AND aerial transmission by its nature can affect such a larger number of people that if we know it exists in any appreciable amount it HAS to be the prime suspect for spreading in crowds and the hand-wavy "close contacts" until proven otherwise.

    I'll add that it seems transmission on airplanes was relatively low even though intercontinental flights are quite long. One difference there is that airplanes circulate and filter the air in a possibly helpful way: blows in at the top, return vents at the bottom, 20-30 room air changes per hour, HEPA filters.
    (although it's considerably worse when on the ground, at least before they power up)


    notes:
    -china inter-City bus case where 1 dude didn't touch or talk to anyone (based on security cam footage), but infected ~6 people including: several behind him, one 4(?) meters away and one who didn't board the bus until 30 minutes after the source got off.

    - also the LA choir practice case where 45 out of 60 people who didn't touch each other were infected. https://www.businessinsider.com/two-people-dead-from-coronavirus-after-super-spreading-event-2020-3)

    I wouldn’t doubt it’s a factor. About the bus case, I’d be interested in knowing where the air vents were vis a vis the nine people with a symptomatic infection. (They were all on an enclosed bus with the man for several hours). As for the choir, there’s been some talk that they ‘followed all the rules’, but following the rules would have required they be deployed over a minimum of 3,200 sq feet of floor space, which is I’m going to wager notably larger than the nave of any small town protestant church you could find in my neck of the woods (aside from the awkwardness of holding a practice under those circumstances). They were all singing – inhaling and exhaling – for a couple of hours.

  363. @Hibernian
    It just might be that there's some corporate welfare involved with the continuing port activities in Newark, Philadelphia, and Baltimore. OTOH, there's quite likely some in Norfolk, too.

    OTOH, there’s quite likely some in Norfolk, too.

    I know you’re referring to corporate welfare, but speaking of welfare – Norfolk has some serious welfare in the form of the bloated U.S. defense budget.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Station_Norfolk

    Four future dive sites/aircraft carriers are home ported there.

    • LOL: