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From Buzzfeed:

There’s A New Movement Trying To Create An Intellectual Strain Of Trumpism. It Just Doesn’t Know What Exactly That Means.
The National Conservatism Conference sought to define a nationalism apart from President Trump, but it didn’t lay out a specific agenda.

Rosie Gray
BuzzFeed News Reporter

Posted on July 19, 2019, at 2:05 p.m. ET

The article begins with the single most shocking, SHOCKING thing anybody said at the conference:

WASHINGTON — Amy Wax, a law professor whose hard-right pronouncements have made her an object of outrage among students and led to censure at the University of Pennsylvania, came to the National Conservatism Conference and implied that immigration makes American communities dirtier.

“I think we are going to sink back significantly into third-worldism,” Wax said during a panel discussion. “We are going to go Venezuela. You can just see it happening. One of my pet peeves, one of my obsessions, is litter. If you go up to Stockbridge, Massachusetts, or Yankee territory, versus other places that are quote-unquote more diverse, you are going to see an enormous difference, I’m sorry to report. Generalizations are not very pleasant. But little things like that aren’t little. They really affect our environment.”

I’m fascinated by how Tucker Carlson and Amy Wax pointing out the obvious reality of Latino Littering tends to drive liberals insane with rage. Why?

Of all the problems facing America, littering might be most amenable to social engineering. The American Establishment put together a big anti-littering campaign in the 1950s and 1960s, hitting paydirt with the famous “Crying Indian” TV commercial in 1971 that racially shamed whites into not littering.

Now, though, there are a whole bunch of new people here from more littering-prone cultures like Mexico that haven’t been adequately shamed into not littering. But to even mention that fact is deemed unspeakable evil.

I don’t get it. Do people like Rosie Gray just not notice the pattern?

Or is it some kind of hate hallucination where Amy Wax is supposed to be a Nazi dogwhistling about “racial hygiene?”

Or is it some kind of Brahmin thing that I haven’t figured out yet?

… In her opening remarks at the panel, Wax said race was the “bête noire” of the immigration debate and that conservatives were too afraid of being called racist to embrace what would be in effect policies keeping out non-white people.

As a law professor, Wax is familiar with the logic of disparate impact law, where colorblind policies that have an adverse impact on protected groups can be banned as discriminatory.

“Europe and the first world to which the United States belongs remain mostly white for now, and the third world, although mixed, contains a lot of nonwhite people,” Wax said. “Embracing cultural distance, cultural distance nationalism means in effect taking the position that our country will be better off with more whites and fewer nonwhites. Well, that is the result, anyway.

For example, it’s considered shocking to say that we should try to get more immigrants from Norway and fewer immigrants from Haiti because Norway is a well-educated welfare state, so immigrants from Norway are likely to pay more taxes and take less in welfare than immigrants from Haiti. Trump’s logic is colorblind, but the result would be more white immigrants and fewer black immigrants, so everybody who is anybody screams that that kind of sensible immigration policy would be racist.

So even if our immigration philosophy is grounded firmly in cultural concerns doesn’t rely on race at all, and no matter how many times we repeat the mantra that correlation is not causation, these racial dimensions are enough to spook conservatives. As a result today we have an immigration policy driven by fear.”

And so once again everybody is mad at Amy Wax.

 
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  1. And what’s with the Hispanic graffiti thing? Why do they like to make their neighborhoods look trashy?

    • Replies: @Realist

    And what’s with the Hispanic graffiti thing? Why do they like to make their neighborhoods look trashy?
     
    Trashy is as trashy does.
    , @Counterinsurgency
    And what’s with the Hispanic graffiti thing? Why do they like to make their neighborhoods look trashy?

    Dominance signaling, territorial marking, and prestige. Hispanics believe in direct, even flamboyant, expression of dominance rather than in displays of control, hence graffiti by low level gangs and "street artists" and bodies hanging from overpasses in mexico.

    Counterinsurgency
    , @Bard of Bumperstickers
    Just like tracking deer, a disposable diaper in a parking lot is a sure sign that the most awsum and fecund folks have recently passed through.
    , @flyingtiger
    Marking their territory. Like a dog pissing on a tree.
  2. So it appears that the massive concern over littering and the public shaming over it was merely a tool of social control and nothing more, much like other shaming campaigns.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Well yeah. So is parenting.

    Litter sucked.
    , @AnotherDad
    Like Desiderius said "litter sucked".

    If you could have the death penalty for littering--cull the litterers--your nation would improve dramatically.

    Littering is a sign of high time-preference, low conscientiousness, lack of pro-sociality and generally low IQ. People who do not litter are precisely the people who can maintain critical social structures like the rule of law and the productive capability (physical plant and skills) of the nation.

    You see a community or nation where there's trash everywhere and that's what the joint is--a trashy place with trashy people.

    And yes, i'm seeing more litter pretty much every year in the US--super obvious in my middle class PNW neighborhood--as we diversify and community erodes.
  3. Why Does Mentioning Latino Littering Trigger Liberals Into Rage?

    I think it triggers cognitive dissonance in them. Affluent white liberals do not want slobs littering in their neighborhoods but do not want to be seen criticizing Latino behavior?

    • Agree: 95Theses
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    AGREE. You got it. They know they must lie about this to be Good People, but they don't like being called out as liars. Hence, they lash out first to preempt that.
    , @Haole
    yes.
  4. Z-Man did this conference. His reports on his blog and here at Unz were a hoot. Basically an attempt to set up a new Buckley-style gatekeeper operation before the Trump-inspired yokels start noticing too many things.

    • Replies: @IHTG
    If so, it's a gatekeeper operation that you desperately need
    , @Charles Pewitt

    Z-Man did this conference. His reports on his blog and here at Unz were a hoot. Basically an attempt to set up a new Buckley-style gatekeeper operation before the Trump-inspired yokels start noticing too many things.

     

    I say some dead guy from Harvard named Huntington said the USA was a British Protestant settler nation.

    I say the USA is a European Christian nation because I am a Euro-Mongrel and I want to win the support of German voters in the future.

    This guy is from Indiana and Krauts are crawling the Hell all over Indiana.

    https://twitter.com/MatthewParrott/status/1152370222164303873
    , @UrbaneFrancoOntarian
    link pls
  5. When liberals say Our New Country Is Going To Be Great, they actually mean it. It’s kinda hard to pretend everything is made better by diversity and that every claim to the contrary is a racist lie based on false data when standing on a pile of rubbish.

  6. Anon[516] • Disclaimer says:

    Before the 1970s, the US had plenty of litterbugs. The decade of the 1970s was a decade of consciousness-raising about it. Of course, they also used to fine people if they did it. If every Littering Latino got zapped with a fine, at least some of them would smarten up and we’d be much better off.

    The problem is, of course, you have to be teachable.

    • Replies: @Cowboy Shaw
    Same in NZ in the 7os. It does seem to be a teachable thing. For some people. Almost no one in NZ, and no single local group litters now. Only some groups of tourists.

    In the UK where I currently live, the kind of person who wouldn't litter in NZ, does. It seems to be improving though. The problem they have is that as they are improving the behaviour of the working class whites, the are importing groups of other people who are probably permanently unteachable.
    , @Corn
    “If every Littering Latino got zapped with a fine, at least some of them would smarten up and we’d be much better off.”

    In some metropolises they no longer prosecute shoplifting or petty theft because it hurts black bodies. Start ticketing too many Latinos or non whites for littering and soon the littering and dumping laws will go the way of the dodo bird.
  7. OT

    This is the same guy who signed an anti-BDS law requiring government contractors not support any kind of BDS activity in any way.

    • Agree: Malcolm X-Lax
    • Replies: @Lot
    So you’re upset Texas is boycotting BDS?

    https://i.gyazo.com/aa69ad3773bc65fb97da1f595901d38e.png
    , @Whiskey
    Over thinking. Lib tribe hates Chik ful a because it's Christian and Israel because it's nationalist and White.

    So f the libs. Simple as that.
  8. “The racists are deporting POCs over civil fines!” is how fining Latino Litterbugs will be reported.

    • Replies: @Ancient Briton
    Garbage in - garbage out!
  9. “pointing out the obvious reality of Latino Littering tends to drive liberals insane with rage. Why?”

    Doesn’t pointing out just about any reality tend to drive liberals insane with rage?

    Because, I suppose, being insane with rage is just who liberals are.

    Because, I propose, liberalism is a form of insanity.

    • Agree: Prodigal son
  10. Anon[412] • Disclaimer says:

    I kind of feel for Amy Wax. They are going to destroy her.

    She is a really impressive woman. She is a law professor, which does not have the prestige it might have because of the large numbers of black Harvard Law graduates working in the profession who washed out of the practice of law after a couple of years and got hired as diversity hires. Amy graduated from Harvard Medical School with an M.D., went right into Harvard Law but then did a residency in neurology, and got her J.D. from Columbia, editing the law review, clerked at the district court of appeals level, entered the Justice Department and argued more than a dozen Supreme Court cases. She can hold her own in an argument even while coming across as your beloved grandmother. And she is definitely a “noticer.”

    Rosie Gray is a fellow Jew, but less accomplished. She has a publishing contract to write a takedown of right-wing internet media, so she sees everything through that filter. So her non-P.C. predecessors must die.

    The littering thing probably does seem similar to racist “dirty [fill in victim group]” “tropes.” The victim group could be Jews, of course. Or rural white Southerners. But hey.

    Nicholas Wade’s book kind of stepped in this area, which is partly why he enraged people. Social characteristics are partially genetic (as is everything, Turkheimer’s First Law of Behavioral Genetics). Wade did however think that the genetic “hint” was weak and could be easily outweighed by cultural pressure.

    Cultural behavioral characteristics are very important, and although they seem tiny looked at individually, they add up to a completely different experience. I live in Japan, and the sum total is a very clean and safe environment (there is literally no place I wouldn’t walk at 2:00 a.m., although I wouldn’t say the same for a woman). But there are annoying things, like trash burning by oldsters — I was Trash Tommy when I called the fire department on my neighbors for that, who were lectured on the law and changed their ways, but gave me the side-eye for a year or two after. But I have come to feel a bit guilty about it. I now feel that I am here to assimilate, not bring “superior” U.S. culture.

    ::::::::::

    Somewhat on topic is the Santa Monica Place Nike incident from yesterday. A black father and a mother (not sure of her race) and their light-skinned toddler visited a Nike store. An employee followed them out and asked to see a receipt for the miniature basketball he had in his hands. They said they paid for it, so they didn’t need to show a receipt, although they had one. The store called the cops over, and the parents eventually, after recording a sufficiently long video, returned the ball.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-family-says-they-were-racially-profiled-nike-store-accused-n1031166

    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/07/18/nike-store-santa-monica-basketball-black-family-white-manager/

    Pet peeve: What actually happened, minute by minute, and why doesn’t the media figure that out and report it? This is my guess:

    1. Family roams through Nike store.

    2 Kid carries ball around in Nike store, perhaps is noticed by staff.

    3. Parents decides to buy ball for kid.

    4. Ball is rung up and put in a bag. [My supposition as a prior Nike store customer.]

    5. Parent removes ball from bag inside store and gives ball to kid. [Ditto.}

    6. Employee notices unbagged ball and asks to see receipt.

    7. Father says (a) No, because I’m telling you I paid for it, and (b) store clerks are always following me in stores.

    8. Store clerk cannot rely on father’s claim to have paid since anyone could say that, and store clerk doesn’t really care about his perceived treatment in other stores since that has nothing to do with anything here.

    9. Cops come over (they are stationed in the mall) and parents yell down any attempt to discuss the matter, or at least parents edit down the video to make it seem so.

    10. Eventually, in edit-room-floor section, parents show receipt and demand refund, which they get.

    The side of the aggrieved blacks: We are followed around in stores, so we say and so we perceive, therefore as reparations we should be treated with different standards and our screamed word should be equivalent to showing a receipt. Also, we should be allow to unbag goods inside stores and then walk out and not be challenged. Also, if we want to set up a barbecue inside the store, that also should be allowed.

    The store’s side: Shoplifting is a problem. To combat that we bag paid items with a receipt. Customers should not remove merchandise from bags within the store, and at any rate should show their receipt if a requested. You’re always welcome to pass your opinions on to the store management.

    Thinking the story through like this is the job of any media that reports on it. Then they can either ask questions and report on responses, or if the video poster is not cooperative, pose the questions and note that they remain unanswered.

    Two interesting things to note about the coverage:

    — Nike gave a pro forma apology, but also said, “we are currently investigating the facts.” How completely racist to think that there are facts that are not contained in a viral video! And, is there store survellance video, inside and out? Why isn’t the media asking about that?

    — The local CBS coverage show a hint of the narrative fraying in their report: “Stallworth and Dickerson are heard on the video insisting that they purchased the ball … At one point, one of them is heard referring to the manager as ‘stupid’ and apparently calling one of the officers ‘dumbass.’

    • Replies: @bomag
    Nike incident

    Highlights several things.

    Rules are to smooth out interactions; having a receipt available is part of the game; but a higher rule played by many is that Blacks are holy and beyond any suspicion.

    Customer/store is at times an adversarial relationship. Part of civilized life is recognizing this and not letting things get too contentious.
    , @Desiderius

    Rosie Gray is a fellow Jew, but less accomplished.
     
    The rest is commentary.

    Steve isn’t really mystified by the anger. Playing dumb has passed its sell-by date.
    , @Anonymous
    Considering Nike's demographic marketing this could be mostly solved by easily implemented tech, e.g. once the item is paid for its anti-shrink identifier is turned off or otherwise disabled. It is puzzling that Nike of all retailers trusts its favored countercultural ethnic mascots not to engage in countercultural behavior such as shoplifting. Does Phil Knight believe his own woke B.S.?
    , @Chrisnonymous

    I live in Japan... I was Trash Tommy when I called the fire department on my neighbors for that, who were lectured on the law
     
    I hate gaijin like that.

    and changed their ways, but gave me the side-eye for a year or two after.
     
    Don't be surprised if it's not over.

    But I have come to feel a bit guilty about it. I now feel that I am here to assimilate, not bring “superior” U.S. culture.
     
    You know, you don't have to choose between those two perspectives. US culture is superior in many ways, but that doesn't mean you have to bring it. Also, you can live here without assimilating. (In fact, you can't really assimilate, and if you try you're going to be disappointed.)
  11. “We are going to go Venezuela.”

    That sounds ominous, but in DC they’re thinking cool, who gets to be Pres. Maduro.

    As to the litter, maybe you should pay a bunch of them to pick it up.

  12. For example, it’s considered shocking to say that we should try to get more immigrants from Norway and fewer immigrants from Haiti because Norway is a well-educated welfare state, so immigrants from Norway are likely to pay more taxes and take less in welfare than immigrants from Haiti. Trump’s logic is colorblind, but the result would be more white immigrants and fewer black immigrants, so everybody who is anybody screams that that kind of sensible immigration policy would be racist.

    How about we just own the fact that white people can legitimately argue for their own interests instead of doing this gay kabuki?

    • Replies: @Counterinsurgency

    How about we just own the fact that white people can legitimately argue for their own interests instead of doing this gay kabuki?
     
    That's on the way, I think.

    It has become blindingly obvious that if American citizens cannot choose the people with whom _their own government_ can make the American citizens associate _under penalty of law_, then American citizenship is (in practical terms) nonexistent, and American citizens are subject to being killed simply because their own government has moved a high murder rate group _from another country_ next door.

    This would seem to contradict the "right to life" that kicked the whole American Revolution off. In the long term, the Supremes have delegitimized themselves when they effectively ruled against right of free association. It is that decision (and the reasoning behind it) that underlies the entire "invite the world" and "Everybody gets to be here" phenomenon we see now. In a way, contemporary immigration is very similar to the old "busing"rules, in which mixing different groups was the one and only justification needed.

    This is eventually going to be fixed. The contemporary assertions that "only whites are racist" have stopped being pleas to conscience and are starting to become proof that non-whites are racist. All sides now contending have set up mono-ethnic areas (while very loudly claiming that they are not racist), and would continue and probably expand these areas should they win the current fight. The only remaining questions are (a) which side wins and (b) how much collateral damage?

    Man, I hate reorganizations.

    Counterinsurgency
    , @ATBOTL

    How about we just own the fact that white people can legitimately argue for their own interests instead of doing this gay kabuki?
     
    For that to happen we have to speak for ourselves at events we control. Whites arguing for their own interests can only be done by whites. Whites should boycott the next one of these neocon2.0 conferences and make it clear we will only go to events run by our own people.
  13. @Thomas
    Z-Man did this conference. His reports on his blog and here at Unz were a hoot. Basically an attempt to set up a new Buckley-style gatekeeper operation before the Trump-inspired yokels start noticing too many things.

    If so, it’s a gatekeeper operation that you desperately need

    • Replies: @SFG
    Oh, I don't know. The neocons probably did help put the Goldwater movement over the top but 30 years later we got the Iraq War.

    Honestly I'm not influential enough to do much either way but I would not be so sanguine. It's entirely possible they can water down the racial part *just* enough to attract Latinos and Asians who want to assimilate and build a majority going forward after Trump that restores the country to something approximating what it used to be. It's also possible they get obsessed with Jewish antisemitism obsessions (and you know these as well as I do) and virtue-signalling to show they're not real racists and the whole thing collapses into a think-tank with five people somewhere in DC. The challenge is always to build a movement that has enough brains to attract think-tank people to staff your administration and enough passion and popular appeal to get people to vote for it.

    I'd bet on failure, but then again I didn't think Trump would win either.

    , @Desiderius
    How’s that second person working for you?

    What’s your plan for Steve’s favorite graph?
    , @216
    Thanks to Buckley we've been locked into endless foreign wars.

    Instead we could have followed the traditional American foreign policy of Washington's Farewell Address.

    But we have to subsidize aggressive Zionists, economic competitors in ROK/JP/ROC, and European welfare states.
    , @Anonymous

    If so, it’s a gatekeeper operation that you desperately need
     
    Could you elaborate? Why desperately needed?
    , @Bill
    Someone desperately needs it, anyway.
  14. This answers a few questions I’ve been having about the left’s attitude towards litter. They are, I kid you not, now claiming that anti littering initiatives are playing into the neoliberal model by, uh, just read it, okay?

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jun/14/the-mindfulness-conspiracy-capitalist-spirituality

    In the 1950s, the “Keep America Beautiful” campaign urged individuals to pick up their trash. The project was bankrolled by corporations such as Coca-Cola, Anheuser-Busch and Phillip Morris, in partnership with the public service announcement Ad Council, which coined the term “litterbug” to shame miscreants. Two decades later, a famous TV ad featured a Native American man weeping at the sight of a motorist dumping garbage. “People Start Pollution. People Can Stop It,” was the slogan…

    …At face value, these efforts seem benevolent, but they obscure the real problem, which is the role that corporate polluters play in the plastic problem. This clever misdirection has led journalist and author Heather Rogers to describe Keep America Beautiful as the first corporate greenwashing front, as it has helped shift the public focus to consumer recycling behaviour and thwarted legislation that would increase extended producer responsibility for waste management.

    In an environment where people are more and more open to center left economic policies, I am genuinely convinced that Big Business and Government are at the very least deeply grateful to the contemporary left, and possibly bankrolling it. If you can convince people that economic redistribution means destroying society and any sense of taking responsibility for yourself, then that’s playing into the globalists’ hands.

    Speaking of, there’s a new Democratic crusade on school lunch debt. Apparently, it’s a civil rights violation to expect parents to either make their kids a sandwich for school, or actually pay for a meal in the cafeteria. And the “shaming” – not even refusing to feed the kids, just giving them a sandwich and some fruit – is up there with lynching. I’m on the center left, and this is actually happening, and it’s repugnant.

    https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2019/06/ilhan-omar-school-lunch-debt-shaming-bill.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/07/20/school-district-parents-pay-your-lunch-debt-or-your-kids-might-wind-up-foster-care/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.23274f462802

    https://civileats.com/2019/05/21/can-we-stop-kids-from-being-shamed-over-school-lunch-debt/

    Some districts are now saying that they’ll take kids into foster care if the parents don’t pay, and the usual suspects are outraged (the Washington Post, naturally, is ON this), but it’s perfectly reasonable. I’m normally very sympathetic to people who can’t afford [X], but if you’re genuinely so out of it you can’t slap two slices of bread around some filling the put it in a bag or container, and you decide to cheat the school instead, you have no business having kids. Get it together.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    Is applying for free or reduced lunch that hard?
    Oh wait, you'd have to pay attention to school newsletters.
    , @bomag

    you have no business having kids
     
    Covers a fair amount out there. But whaddaya? "The baby market can stay irrational longer than careful society can stay solvent."
    , @dr kill
    No one gives a crap about unrelated kids except teh Naders of the world. The school lunch program is about dairy votes. in 2017 almost 8% of fluid milk sales was to school lunch program. What a fucking joke.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-01-09/big-dairy-is-about-to-flood-america-s-school-lunches-with-milk

    When our kids were at Miami Shores El, it was suddenly flooded with Haitian children. I would sometimes be at school for lunch, every kid got a half pint that we paid for, which they all dumped in the bin at the end of the cafeteria line.

    Makes me ill to talk about it, but considering it's only a pimple on our Nat Debt, it's a mere small example.
    , @Sleep
    While I'm sympathetic to those who play by the rules,

    Some districts are now saying that they’ll take kids into foster care if the parents don’t pay,
     
    strikes me as an enormous overreaction. I have to assume this is an idle threat intended to shame the parents, since shaming the kids doesn't really work. But I could be wrong....
  15. It triggers them because it calls to mind a stereotypical (in their minds) snooty white chick saying “ewww, these people are dirty…”

    One has to keep in mind that the new elites are themselves kind of dirty. Perhaps elites have always been a bit dirty — Orwell suggests so in his essay on his time in a prep school. Nothing triggers elites like mentioning their shortcomings, and they tend to explosively react to any hint that they might not be all they’re cracked up to be.

    For all their shortcomings, one thing I have observed about the white working class is their cleanliness — especially the men. I have been to many a domicile maintained by a working-class single man, and despite the garbage that may be spewing from the TV or stereo, the place is typically spotless. It puts me to shame.

    Going back some time, one of the most embarrassing incidents in my life was during grandparents’ day when I was attending a private school. My grandfather, whom I loved dearly, came in his usual attire looking like an older version of the guy in the Norman Rockwell “Democracy” painting. Amidst all the suited up, stuffy old men, he looked around and decided the place was filthy, then promptly opened the janitor closet, grabbed a broom and a mop and started cleaning the place.

    I was horrified, but in retrospect he was right: the place was filthy. Nowadays, I’m ashamed that it embarrassed me so much, but he was making a statement in his own way. These people, with all their wealth and self-importance, can’t even clean up after themselves. Maybe they think it’s beneath their dignity to do so.

    And as much as they can afford to look down on their social inferiors, this is one thing that hits home because it is so basic. It’s a legitimate and stinging critique: these are dirty people.

    As far as the Latino element is concerned, I don’t think it’s all that important. I know Latino/as who are very tidy and clean very well. Quite a few do it professionally. People might snark here, but who can deny that elevated standards of cleanliness have saved countless lives in the last 150 years? Janitor and maid are honorable lines of work.

    However, our elites do not clean and they are not clean. Jesus Christ himself made great hay of this fact. It is a very potent line of attack, and that’s why they freak out about it.

    Instead of going after the Latinos here, I think people ought to point out that wealthy neighborhoods are overrun by rats. It’s true. I’m from Seattle, and the rich have rats coming out of their toilets there.

    They freak out if you point out that Latinos litter because it hits so close to home. If, instead, you said that Latinos drink too much pop, they’d agree and suggest a tax on soda pop. But criticize people for being filthy? Oh no, you can’t do that. Because then you might notice that the people telling you what to do are so filthy and wasteful themselves.

    • Replies: @Jesse

    I know Latino/as who are very tidy and clean very well. Quite a few do it professionally.
     
    Great. But. on a group level, they have the same kind of problems white Americans had before the 1950s. Luckily, it's an extremely easy set of problems to solve. But you can't solve what you won't name.

    Janitor and maid are honorable lines of work.
     
    Holy strawman. No one's saying otherwise. But they are dragging down the wages and benefits. And their descendants, as it turns out, aren't particularly interested in cleaning up other peoples' messes, up to and including their often toxic body waste. Certainly not for terrible wages, conditions and benefits that leave them unable to live a normal, reasonably prosperous life.

    And good for them! The US is predicated on a certain level of dignity, both psychological and material. Having people do disgusting yet vital work for increasingly terrible remuneration is appalling, both in general and in how it degrades a specifically American/Western European sense of being a citizen. Those people from the Philippines and India who go to the Gulf to do vital work for slave wages and conditions are good, honorable people, but their conditions are appalling and degrade the wider society. That's not the kind of society any decent human want to create, no matter how much you try to flatter those doing the work.

    , @Jesse
    There is a difference between public and private behavior. If your house or garden is messy and/or dirty then, short of being a public menace, that's between you and your family/neighbors/possibly child services or animal welfare (and you're showing no evidence that the elites are especially filthy or that it reaches that level of dirtiness.)

    But if you're fouling up public areas, then that is most definitely the business of the wider society. It just is. It's like when Egyptians apparently have as beautiful private homes as they can afford, but leave the streets in absolute squalor. It's imposing ugliness on people who haven't agreed to it.

    Hispanics, on a group level, have an issue with littering in public spaces, in a way that the white elites - for all their faults - just don't. And that is a special problem that the wider society can and should crack down on. Someone being less than meticulous in their housekeeping is a matter of preference.

    You're also not understanding how much cleaning being associated with Hispanics is lowering its status. If it becomes something that a peon class does, for ever worse wages and conditions, that leads to a dead end life for both you and your descendants, then of course the elites will disdain it. And that will of course work its way down, and spring up naturally among the people who would, in the absence of these workers, have taken the work themselves. Importing a helot class will degrade a society fast than anything short of compulsory crystal meth smoking.

    , @TTSSYF
    This has to be one of the biggest piles of pseudo-intellectual nonsense I've ever read on this website with it's oversimplification and sophomoric analysis, ridiculous extrapolation, and/or outright invention (e.g., your anecdotes). I'll be you supported Obama when he sneered, "You didn't build that!"
    , @Anon
    No, they don't react because they're filthy. They aren't, but the comment reminds them that their pursuit of cleanliness betrays their middle class origin.

    The obsession with "cleanliness" is a middle class marker. The "top out of sight" and "bottom out of sight," to use Paul Fussell's useful terms, have, as he says, much in common. Old clothes, no pocket money, constant travelling from house to house, etc.

    I recall the story of an American who joined a monastery somewhere in Europe, and was horrified to learn he could only bathe once a week. He requested an interview with the abbot to ask for this to be reconsidered, and later recalled that "at some point I realized I was telling this immensely holy man that he should learn that 'cleanliness was next to godliness.'"

    Our so-called elites are a bunch of Puritans who made lots of money in filthy trade.

    , @Bill Jones
    Ever been on a plane with a bunch of hassidics?
  16. Japan has a Chicano sub-culture. Spotlessly clean, of course, and so, a hopeless fail.

    • Replies: @snorlax
    Brownface! Cultural appropriation!
    , @GSR
    Those are Japanese girls dressing like cheap Chicanas. They're not actually Chicanas, for Japan allows very few immigrants.
  17. I would have thought importation of Iron Age rape culture would be of greater concern than litter, but since our press and keeps immigrant sexual brutalization of women, animals, and children off the front page, we default to concerns over littering.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    Gotta start somewhere. Turn that snobbery to good use.
  18. @eah
    OT

    This is the same guy who signed an anti-BDS law requiring government contractors not support any kind of BDS activity in any way.

    https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/1152013402102878208

    So you’re upset Texas is boycotting BDS?

    • Replies: @eah
    So you’re upset Texas is boycotting BDS?

    No -- but I am occasionally mildly annoyed by dumb replies with incomprehensible memes.

    No business should be discriminated against simply because its owners donate to a church, the Salvation Army, or other religious organization.

    No governor who sought to ban businesses (and individuals: a speech pathologist named Bahia Amawi, who worked as a contract employee with Texas schools, sued over the anti-BDS language in her renewal contract) from engaging in legitimate 'political speech' like BDS activity should have written the above passage.
  19. It’s not just Latinos.

    Try visiting, say, Turkey, or Nepal. There’s trash, & shit, all over the place, all the time. It’s the first thing you’ll notice when you get there.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
    ...and Western European countries can be almost as bad. E.g.: I love Napoli just this side of idolatry, but, my God, the trash on the streets really is a problem.
    , @PseudonymousMe
    Take a trip to Sub-Saharan Africa.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Try visiting, say, Turkey, or Nepal. There’s trash, & shit, all over the place, all the time. It’s the first thing you’ll notice when you get there.
     
    Well, the capital is Cat Man Doo, after all.

    Here's Cat Man's tribute to the city, with Alun Davies accompanying him on the Gitane:


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8420UW2_veM
    , @Lot
    “Try visiting, say, Turkey, or Nepal. ”

    I’d really rather not. Maybe after the Greek/Armenian reconquest I will visit Anatolia.
  20. @Bill P
    It triggers them because it calls to mind a stereotypical (in their minds) snooty white chick saying "ewww, these people are dirty..."

    One has to keep in mind that the new elites are themselves kind of dirty. Perhaps elites have always been a bit dirty -- Orwell suggests so in his essay on his time in a prep school. Nothing triggers elites like mentioning their shortcomings, and they tend to explosively react to any hint that they might not be all they're cracked up to be.

    For all their shortcomings, one thing I have observed about the white working class is their cleanliness -- especially the men. I have been to many a domicile maintained by a working-class single man, and despite the garbage that may be spewing from the TV or stereo, the place is typically spotless. It puts me to shame.

    Going back some time, one of the most embarrassing incidents in my life was during grandparents' day when I was attending a private school. My grandfather, whom I loved dearly, came in his usual attire looking like an older version of the guy in the Norman Rockwell "Democracy" painting. Amidst all the suited up, stuffy old men, he looked around and decided the place was filthy, then promptly opened the janitor closet, grabbed a broom and a mop and started cleaning the place.

    I was horrified, but in retrospect he was right: the place was filthy. Nowadays, I'm ashamed that it embarrassed me so much, but he was making a statement in his own way. These people, with all their wealth and self-importance, can't even clean up after themselves. Maybe they think it's beneath their dignity to do so.

    And as much as they can afford to look down on their social inferiors, this is one thing that hits home because it is so basic. It's a legitimate and stinging critique: these are dirty people.

    As far as the Latino element is concerned, I don't think it's all that important. I know Latino/as who are very tidy and clean very well. Quite a few do it professionally. People might snark here, but who can deny that elevated standards of cleanliness have saved countless lives in the last 150 years? Janitor and maid are honorable lines of work.

    However, our elites do not clean and they are not clean. Jesus Christ himself made great hay of this fact. It is a very potent line of attack, and that's why they freak out about it.

    Instead of going after the Latinos here, I think people ought to point out that wealthy neighborhoods are overrun by rats. It's true. I'm from Seattle, and the rich have rats coming out of their toilets there.

    They freak out if you point out that Latinos litter because it hits so close to home. If, instead, you said that Latinos drink too much pop, they'd agree and suggest a tax on soda pop. But criticize people for being filthy? Oh no, you can't do that. Because then you might notice that the people telling you what to do are so filthy and wasteful themselves.

    I know Latino/as who are very tidy and clean very well. Quite a few do it professionally.

    Great. But. on a group level, they have the same kind of problems white Americans had before the 1950s. Luckily, it’s an extremely easy set of problems to solve. But you can’t solve what you won’t name.

    Janitor and maid are honorable lines of work.

    Holy strawman. No one’s saying otherwise. But they are dragging down the wages and benefits. And their descendants, as it turns out, aren’t particularly interested in cleaning up other peoples’ messes, up to and including their often toxic body waste. Certainly not for terrible wages, conditions and benefits that leave them unable to live a normal, reasonably prosperous life.

    And good for them! The US is predicated on a certain level of dignity, both psychological and material. Having people do disgusting yet vital work for increasingly terrible remuneration is appalling, both in general and in how it degrades a specifically American/Western European sense of being a citizen. Those people from the Philippines and India who go to the Gulf to do vital work for slave wages and conditions are good, honorable people, but their conditions are appalling and degrade the wider society. That’s not the kind of society any decent human want to create, no matter how much you try to flatter those doing the work.

    • Agree: International Jew
    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    Jesse wrote:

    But. on a group level, they have the same kind of problems white Americans had before the 1950s.
     
    Young people may not be aware that in the late '50s, we routinely tossed any sort of trash out of the car window: from gum wrappers and fast-food trash to diapers. Why worry?

    Then, people started to notice that we were fouling our own nest, and this became socially and culturally unacceptable.

    Culture can change. But, it often takes a conscious effort and a sense of common belonging.
    , @Jake
    Your concluding paragraph is excellent; it nails much that central to the worsening horrors.

    What our Elites want is a world like that of the Middle east they know: they are super Elites (like the Jews running Israel and Aran princely families with oil money) and then there are people with a status that makes them nothing begging to be allowed to shovel shit for pennies. And that group has no hope of social mobility. A teeny tine SUPER Elite, with the vast, vast majority of people forced to beg as a permanent condition of life, forced to endure all humiliations, including regular sexual assault, in order to avoid starving to death.

    Not only are our Gentile Elites exactly like our Jewish Elites in that, but the fact is that Brit WASPs figured all that out long before more than a handful of Jews across the globe grasped the big picture.
    , @Anonymous

    Great. But. on a group level, they have the same kind of problems white Americans had before the 1950s. Luckily, it’s an extremely easy set of problems to solve. But you can’t solve what you won’t name.
     
    If it is true that people can be trained to not litter (as you and Steve claim), then Wax is wrong that we need to base immigration policy on different countries' littering habits.
  21. @Jesse
    This answers a few questions I've been having about the left's attitude towards litter. They are, I kid you not, now claiming that anti littering initiatives are playing into the neoliberal model by, uh, just read it, okay?


    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jun/14/the-mindfulness-conspiracy-capitalist-spirituality

    In the 1950s, the “Keep America Beautiful” campaign urged individuals to pick up their trash. The project was bankrolled by corporations such as Coca-Cola, Anheuser-Busch and Phillip Morris, in partnership with the public service announcement Ad Council, which coined the term “litterbug” to shame miscreants. Two decades later, a famous TV ad featured a Native American man weeping at the sight of a motorist dumping garbage. “People Start Pollution. People Can Stop It,” was the slogan...

    ...At face value, these efforts seem benevolent, but they obscure the real problem, which is the role that corporate polluters play in the plastic problem. This clever misdirection has led journalist and author Heather Rogers to describe Keep America Beautiful as the first corporate greenwashing front, as it has helped shift the public focus to consumer recycling behaviour and thwarted legislation that would increase extended producer responsibility for waste management.
     
    In an environment where people are more and more open to center left economic policies, I am genuinely convinced that Big Business and Government are at the very least deeply grateful to the contemporary left, and possibly bankrolling it. If you can convince people that economic redistribution means destroying society and any sense of taking responsibility for yourself, then that's playing into the globalists' hands.

    Speaking of, there's a new Democratic crusade on school lunch debt. Apparently, it's a civil rights violation to expect parents to either make their kids a sandwich for school, or actually pay for a meal in the cafeteria. And the "shaming" - not even refusing to feed the kids, just giving them a sandwich and some fruit - is up there with lynching. I'm on the center left, and this is actually happening, and it's repugnant.

    https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2019/06/ilhan-omar-school-lunch-debt-shaming-bill.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/07/20/school-district-parents-pay-your-lunch-debt-or-your-kids-might-wind-up-foster-care/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.23274f462802

    https://civileats.com/2019/05/21/can-we-stop-kids-from-being-shamed-over-school-lunch-debt/

    Some districts are now saying that they'll take kids into foster care if the parents don't pay, and the usual suspects are outraged (the Washington Post, naturally, is ON this), but it's perfectly reasonable. I'm normally very sympathetic to people who can't afford [X], but if you're genuinely so out of it you can't slap two slices of bread around some filling the put it in a bag or container, and you decide to cheat the school instead, you have no business having kids. Get it together.

    Is applying for free or reduced lunch that hard?
    Oh wait, you’d have to pay attention to school newsletters.

  22. @Bill P
    It triggers them because it calls to mind a stereotypical (in their minds) snooty white chick saying "ewww, these people are dirty..."

    One has to keep in mind that the new elites are themselves kind of dirty. Perhaps elites have always been a bit dirty -- Orwell suggests so in his essay on his time in a prep school. Nothing triggers elites like mentioning their shortcomings, and they tend to explosively react to any hint that they might not be all they're cracked up to be.

    For all their shortcomings, one thing I have observed about the white working class is their cleanliness -- especially the men. I have been to many a domicile maintained by a working-class single man, and despite the garbage that may be spewing from the TV or stereo, the place is typically spotless. It puts me to shame.

    Going back some time, one of the most embarrassing incidents in my life was during grandparents' day when I was attending a private school. My grandfather, whom I loved dearly, came in his usual attire looking like an older version of the guy in the Norman Rockwell "Democracy" painting. Amidst all the suited up, stuffy old men, he looked around and decided the place was filthy, then promptly opened the janitor closet, grabbed a broom and a mop and started cleaning the place.

    I was horrified, but in retrospect he was right: the place was filthy. Nowadays, I'm ashamed that it embarrassed me so much, but he was making a statement in his own way. These people, with all their wealth and self-importance, can't even clean up after themselves. Maybe they think it's beneath their dignity to do so.

    And as much as they can afford to look down on their social inferiors, this is one thing that hits home because it is so basic. It's a legitimate and stinging critique: these are dirty people.

    As far as the Latino element is concerned, I don't think it's all that important. I know Latino/as who are very tidy and clean very well. Quite a few do it professionally. People might snark here, but who can deny that elevated standards of cleanliness have saved countless lives in the last 150 years? Janitor and maid are honorable lines of work.

    However, our elites do not clean and they are not clean. Jesus Christ himself made great hay of this fact. It is a very potent line of attack, and that's why they freak out about it.

    Instead of going after the Latinos here, I think people ought to point out that wealthy neighborhoods are overrun by rats. It's true. I'm from Seattle, and the rich have rats coming out of their toilets there.

    They freak out if you point out that Latinos litter because it hits so close to home. If, instead, you said that Latinos drink too much pop, they'd agree and suggest a tax on soda pop. But criticize people for being filthy? Oh no, you can't do that. Because then you might notice that the people telling you what to do are so filthy and wasteful themselves.

    There is a difference between public and private behavior. If your house or garden is messy and/or dirty then, short of being a public menace, that’s between you and your family/neighbors/possibly child services or animal welfare (and you’re showing no evidence that the elites are especially filthy or that it reaches that level of dirtiness.)

    But if you’re fouling up public areas, then that is most definitely the business of the wider society. It just is. It’s like when Egyptians apparently have as beautiful private homes as they can afford, but leave the streets in absolute squalor. It’s imposing ugliness on people who haven’t agreed to it.

    Hispanics, on a group level, have an issue with littering in public spaces, in a way that the white elites – for all their faults – just don’t. And that is a special problem that the wider society can and should crack down on. Someone being less than meticulous in their housekeeping is a matter of preference.

    You’re also not understanding how much cleaning being associated with Hispanics is lowering its status. If it becomes something that a peon class does, for ever worse wages and conditions, that leads to a dead end life for both you and your descendants, then of course the elites will disdain it. And that will of course work its way down, and spring up naturally among the people who would, in the absence of these workers, have taken the work themselves. Importing a helot class will degrade a society fast than anything short of compulsory crystal meth smoking.

  23. The article begins with the single most shocking, SHOCKING thing anybody said at the conference …

    Judging by the rather cucky-looking roster of the event, I bet that’s the only thing that was said there on the subject of race:

    https://nationalconservatism.org/

  24. @vinteuil
    It's not just Latinos.

    Try visiting, say, Turkey, or Nepal. There's trash, & shit, all over the place, all the time. It's the first thing you'll notice when you get there.

    …and Western European countries can be almost as bad. E.g.: I love Napoli just this side of idolatry, but, my God, the trash on the streets really is a problem.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Jesse
    One of the interesting things about Italy is that the North, especially the ethnically German areas, are much cleaner. I adore the Italians too, but it's a major problem. Prior to the German bad behavior - including insulting the PIIGS, in 2008, they might've been able to shame and cajole them into behaving better, but that ship seems to have sailed.
    , @vinny
    Even the richest neighborhoods in Manhattan can't seem to figure out bins for household trash.
    , @Anonymous

    …and Western European countries can be almost as bad. E.g.: I love Napoli just this side of idolatry, but, my God, the trash on the streets really is a problem.
     
    #medmindset
    , @stillCARealist
    First thing I noticed about Italy: very trashy. Some places looked like Mexico. I'm starting to get suspicious.
    , @Sailor gone native
    Davvero! Naples will always be my happy place . . . and I lived in Tuscany, too. To be in Napoli, and to embrace it, is to be truly alive.
  25. @vinteuil
    ...and Western European countries can be almost as bad. E.g.: I love Napoli just this side of idolatry, but, my God, the trash on the streets really is a problem.

    One of the interesting things about Italy is that the North, especially the ethnically German areas, are much cleaner. I adore the Italians too, but it’s a major problem. Prior to the German bad behavior – including insulting the PIIGS, in 2008, they might’ve been able to shame and cajole them into behaving better, but that ship seems to have sailed.

    • Replies: @SFG
    I don't think anyone in Europe wants the Germans telling them what to do since about 1945.

    That's actually been a subtext of a lot of this anti-EU stuff since 2008--it's German bankers they're immediately mad at, but the Hitler comparisons pop up too.
  26. @Paul
    And what's with the Hispanic graffiti thing? Why do they like to make their neighborhoods look trashy?

    And what’s with the Hispanic graffiti thing? Why do they like to make their neighborhoods look trashy?

    Trashy is as trashy does.

  27. • Agree: Prodigal son
    • Replies: @ATBOTL
    Amy Wax is yet another example of a Jew inside of the establishment being allowed to say things that would get any gentile fired and unpersoned. The strategy here is to allow a certain amount of non-PC material inside of movement conservatism so that white goy conservatives don't go looking to white nationalists for this kind of material. Of course, the only way to be sure the people providing this material don't go too far and actually advocate white nationalism is to only let neocon Jews do it.
  28. A few days ago, a friend who self-identifies as a far Leftist and who lives in San Francisco volunteered to me that she was disgusted by the filth on the streets and sidewalks of San Francisco: she correctly attributed it to homeless people.

    She went on, of course, to add that she did not blame the homeless people themselves for being homeless (I don’t either — there are larger driving problems here, ranging from housing restrictions to how we deal with mentally disturbed people and drug abusers).

    But, I think the destruction of public spaces in California’s once beautiful cities is starting to become salient. A lot of things have gone wrong, and reality is starting to trump ideology.

    • Replies: @Jake
    here is the way I predict that CA Liberals will respond to reality trumping ideology in this matter: they will realize that the white trash of middle America somehow is responsible for the problem, and the only way to solve the problem is to make certain that immigration replaces the white trash of middle America. And thus they will double down on amnesty for illegals and calls for more and easier legal immigration.
    , @Counterinsurgency

    But, I think the destruction of public spaces in California’s once beautiful cities is starting to become salient. A lot of things have gone wrong, and reality is starting to trump ideology.
     
    The reality is perhaps a bit worse than you think. Homeless are a major revenue source for West Coast cities (and apparently for Austin, TX). Your city governments are doing this to you for the headcount and the budget it gives their human services (cannibals?) departments.

    Counterinsurgency
    , @Counterinsurgency

    But, I think the destruction of public spaces in California’s once beautiful cities is starting to become salient. A lot of things have gone wrong, and reality is starting to trump ideology.
     
    The reality is perhaps a bit worse than you think. Homeless are a major revenue source for West Coast cities (and apparently for Austin, TX). Your city governments are doing this to you for the headcount and the budget it gives their human services (cannibals?) departments.

    Counterinsurgency
    , @SFG
    That was one of the things that started to take down the post-New Deal labor coalition back in the 70s, as I recall; striking workers leaving garbage uncollected, etc.
    , @Desiderius
    It wasn’t/isn’t driven by ideology - there isn’t any there there idea wise. It’s all attitude/feeling based.

    When forced to defend it that reality finally becomes clear, hence the anger from those who pride themselves on intellect.
    , @Thea
    What is the solution then to mental illness and drug abuse leading to homelessness? Apart from locking these people away, which now won’t be tolerated, how has any society dealt with this successfully ?
    , @vinteuil

    ...she did not blame the homeless people themselves for being homeless (I don’t either — there are larger driving problems here, ranging from housing restrictions to how we deal with mentally disturbed people and drug abusers).
     
    Remember The Derb's mnemonic: CATO 4321

    40% of the homeless are CRAZY (or "mentally disturbed," if you prefer.)
    30% are ADDICTS (or "drug abusers.")
    20% are TRAMPS (or hobo's) who actually kind of like the homeless lifestyle.
    10% are OUT OF LUCK (usually temporarily).
  29. @Jesse

    I know Latino/as who are very tidy and clean very well. Quite a few do it professionally.
     
    Great. But. on a group level, they have the same kind of problems white Americans had before the 1950s. Luckily, it's an extremely easy set of problems to solve. But you can't solve what you won't name.

    Janitor and maid are honorable lines of work.
     
    Holy strawman. No one's saying otherwise. But they are dragging down the wages and benefits. And their descendants, as it turns out, aren't particularly interested in cleaning up other peoples' messes, up to and including their often toxic body waste. Certainly not for terrible wages, conditions and benefits that leave them unable to live a normal, reasonably prosperous life.

    And good for them! The US is predicated on a certain level of dignity, both psychological and material. Having people do disgusting yet vital work for increasingly terrible remuneration is appalling, both in general and in how it degrades a specifically American/Western European sense of being a citizen. Those people from the Philippines and India who go to the Gulf to do vital work for slave wages and conditions are good, honorable people, but their conditions are appalling and degrade the wider society. That's not the kind of society any decent human want to create, no matter how much you try to flatter those doing the work.

    Jesse wrote:

    But. on a group level, they have the same kind of problems white Americans had before the 1950s.

    Young people may not be aware that in the late ’50s, we routinely tossed any sort of trash out of the car window: from gum wrappers and fast-food trash to diapers. Why worry?

    Then, people started to notice that we were fouling our own nest, and this became socially and culturally unacceptable.

    Culture can change. But, it often takes a conscious effort and a sense of common belonging.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @OscarWildeLoveChild
    I remember the days, and my parents telling us not to, then we had the whole "its biodegradable" stuff when you were riding with a fellow teen.

    You hit on an important point that I think demonstrates the core problem--whites do this and that, and a lot of things, most things, because of a perception of investment in one's own culture, and/or future. Other groups in the US, don't, because they don't see this as their thing--and I don't mean that in a liberal "we-haven't-made-them-feel-welcomed" type of way, but more of the fact that they recognize it's just a place they happen to "work" and "live" in for now, set up by whites, who in their minds, will always be around to fix things, to improve things, to respond to micro-problems (like feeding their immigrant children free lunches at school). There's no investment because there is no past, and no future, just the present. Which of course, is a genetic trait that reveals itself in their own home nations.

    These things are true to varying degrees. There are plenty of latinos who keep very nice homes and lawns, akin to lower-middle class whites of days-gone-by, who also took pride in such things despite not being "rich" or high class.
    , @anonymous
    "Young people may not be aware that in the late ’50s, we routinely tossed any sort of trash out of the car window: from gum wrappers and fast-food trash to diapers. Why worry?"

    This is horseshit.

    I grew up in that era, I suspect you did not, or you would know that diapers, at least up until sometime in the '60's, were cloth, not disposable, fairly expensive, and people did not throw them away. Because they were cloth, not disposable, and fairly expensive.

    There have always been slobs in America, and there still are. I have no doubt that roadside littering has decreased since the that era. That does not mean that the behavior you describe was ever considered normal, or acceptable.
    , @RadicalCenter
    Well, it’s a big place with a lot of ethnic groups and habits, I guess. But our experience is entirely to the contrary.

    My parents, grandparents and great grandparents — the earliest of the three generations being born in Italy, Germany, and Eastern Europe before coming here to the USA — NEVER littered on the street or anywhere else, and would be ashamed to do so. (Relying on what grandparents and parents have said about their memories and what they were taught, including my mother who just scoffed when I said people were claiming that Americans threw trash out the car window back then.) I know that any of my grandparents would be disgusted and disappointed if I were found throwing trash on the ground “like a savage”, they might say.

    They were especially conscious of proving that they were civilized people, showing it to the Protestant / British majority who was here first. Never be heard speaking something besides English, always work no matter how bad the job, go to church, take care of your children, and fight for the country. That’s what they taught and did, poor as they were. I love them. I am so proud of them all. Throwing trash would be a disgrace to our family and to our people. They swept their freaking sidewalks in the middle of ny city and other then-white but crowded places in northeastern NJ, then Long Island etc.

    I have never even known or heard of any white American thinking it to be normal or acceptable to throw trash in the streets half a century ago or (reportedly) a century ago.

    The only acceptable time to throw something not in the garbage was, and is, to toss a small, readily biodegradable food item into a field or woods, like when you are walking in outer suburbs or the country and finish eating a piece of fruit. That’s it.

    , @nebulafox
    Texas still had a big littering problem back in the 1980s. The most egregious offenders tended to be blue-collar younger men dumping all kinds of stuff from their trucks.

    The solution from the state government was pretty simple and intuitive: en masse cultural messaging about respecting Texan ground from prominent Dallas Cowboys.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2qIF3PL7lQ

    With how far socio-cultural atomization is proceeding in the US, aka, the common belonging part, this is getting trickier to pull off.

  30. @Paul
    And what's with the Hispanic graffiti thing? Why do they like to make their neighborhoods look trashy?

    And what’s with the Hispanic graffiti thing? Why do they like to make their neighborhoods look trashy?

    Dominance signaling, territorial marking, and prestige. Hispanics believe in direct, even flamboyant, expression of dominance rather than in displays of control, hence graffiti by low level gangs and “street artists” and bodies hanging from overpasses in mexico.

    Counterinsurgency

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Perhaps. But I think Latinos also just like painting murals on things. Some of these paintings are somewhat garish to us, and they can become weathered and shabby quickly, but it’s not always, or even mostly, gang signals.
  31. Liberals get furious, some to the point of shaky rage that could become violent, about talk of Mexican littering for the same reason Liberals become furious about all kinds of little things: inside every Liberal is a Totalitarian screaming to get out.

    David Horowitz may be still just another Neocon, a Neocon whose obsessions with the permanent problems of Mohammedans and Mohammedanism and how to deal with them show considerably more insight than those of virtually all other Neocons. Or he could be the best actor among the Neocons while being as evil to the core as Bill Kristol. But that line is perfect because it tells the truth of the matter.

    People noticing Mexican littering is people failing to have been properly trained not to notice. And that means the poor Liberal is forced to do even more work to get us trained so that we love Big Brother.

  32. @PhysicistDave
    A few days ago, a friend who self-identifies as a far Leftist and who lives in San Francisco volunteered to me that she was disgusted by the filth on the streets and sidewalks of San Francisco: she correctly attributed it to homeless people.

    She went on, of course, to add that she did not blame the homeless people themselves for being homeless (I don't either -- there are larger driving problems here, ranging from housing restrictions to how we deal with mentally disturbed people and drug abusers).

    But, I think the destruction of public spaces in California's once beautiful cities is starting to become salient. A lot of things have gone wrong, and reality is starting to trump ideology.

    here is the way I predict that CA Liberals will respond to reality trumping ideology in this matter: they will realize that the white trash of middle America somehow is responsible for the problem, and the only way to solve the problem is to make certain that immigration replaces the white trash of middle America. And thus they will double down on amnesty for illegals and calls for more and easier legal immigration.

  33. @Kent Nationalist

    For example, it’s considered shocking to say that we should try to get more immigrants from Norway and fewer immigrants from Haiti because Norway is a well-educated welfare state, so immigrants from Norway are likely to pay more taxes and take less in welfare than immigrants from Haiti. Trump’s logic is colorblind, but the result would be more white immigrants and fewer black immigrants, so everybody who is anybody screams that that kind of sensible immigration policy would be racist.

     

    How about we just own the fact that white people can legitimately argue for their own interests instead of doing this gay kabuki?

    How about we just own the fact that white people can legitimately argue for their own interests instead of doing this gay kabuki?

    That’s on the way, I think.

    It has become blindingly obvious that if American citizens cannot choose the people with whom _their own government_ can make the American citizens associate _under penalty of law_, then American citizenship is (in practical terms) nonexistent, and American citizens are subject to being killed simply because their own government has moved a high murder rate group _from another country_ next door.

    This would seem to contradict the “right to life” that kicked the whole American Revolution off. In the long term, the Supremes have delegitimized themselves when they effectively ruled against right of free association. It is that decision (and the reasoning behind it) that underlies the entire “invite the world” and “Everybody gets to be here” phenomenon we see now. In a way, contemporary immigration is very similar to the old “busing”rules, in which mixing different groups was the one and only justification needed.

    This is eventually going to be fixed. The contemporary assertions that “only whites are racist” have stopped being pleas to conscience and are starting to become proof that non-whites are racist. All sides now contending have set up mono-ethnic areas (while very loudly claiming that they are not racist), and would continue and probably expand these areas should they win the current fight. The only remaining questions are (a) which side wins and (b) how much collateral damage?

    Man, I hate reorganizations.

    Counterinsurgency

  34. @Jesse

    I know Latino/as who are very tidy and clean very well. Quite a few do it professionally.
     
    Great. But. on a group level, they have the same kind of problems white Americans had before the 1950s. Luckily, it's an extremely easy set of problems to solve. But you can't solve what you won't name.

    Janitor and maid are honorable lines of work.
     
    Holy strawman. No one's saying otherwise. But they are dragging down the wages and benefits. And their descendants, as it turns out, aren't particularly interested in cleaning up other peoples' messes, up to and including their often toxic body waste. Certainly not for terrible wages, conditions and benefits that leave them unable to live a normal, reasonably prosperous life.

    And good for them! The US is predicated on a certain level of dignity, both psychological and material. Having people do disgusting yet vital work for increasingly terrible remuneration is appalling, both in general and in how it degrades a specifically American/Western European sense of being a citizen. Those people from the Philippines and India who go to the Gulf to do vital work for slave wages and conditions are good, honorable people, but their conditions are appalling and degrade the wider society. That's not the kind of society any decent human want to create, no matter how much you try to flatter those doing the work.

    Your concluding paragraph is excellent; it nails much that central to the worsening horrors.

    What our Elites want is a world like that of the Middle east they know: they are super Elites (like the Jews running Israel and Aran princely families with oil money) and then there are people with a status that makes them nothing begging to be allowed to shovel shit for pennies. And that group has no hope of social mobility. A teeny tine SUPER Elite, with the vast, vast majority of people forced to beg as a permanent condition of life, forced to endure all humiliations, including regular sexual assault, in order to avoid starving to death.

    Not only are our Gentile Elites exactly like our Jewish Elites in that, but the fact is that Brit WASPs figured all that out long before more than a handful of Jews across the globe grasped the big picture.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I see it as more generic than that, Jake. The elites would like to be living as elites do in ANY 3rd world country, they as the 1 - 2% overlords with the security details and broken glass embedded in the walls, and us the 98% that live on the edge and beg for scraps (they call that "elections").

    What they can't handle is having this bothersome middle class that has extra money to form associations, join the government at low levels, and stay infiltrated in the school boards. That won't do. If it takes replacing Americans one or two million-fold a year, well, it's a slow tedious process, but that's what it's gonna have to be.
  35. As a result today we have an immigration policy driven by fear.

    The fear is that if we don’t get into America quite all the good stuff will be gone before we get there, so why bother leaving home.

  36. @Jesse
    This answers a few questions I've been having about the left's attitude towards litter. They are, I kid you not, now claiming that anti littering initiatives are playing into the neoliberal model by, uh, just read it, okay?


    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jun/14/the-mindfulness-conspiracy-capitalist-spirituality

    In the 1950s, the “Keep America Beautiful” campaign urged individuals to pick up their trash. The project was bankrolled by corporations such as Coca-Cola, Anheuser-Busch and Phillip Morris, in partnership with the public service announcement Ad Council, which coined the term “litterbug” to shame miscreants. Two decades later, a famous TV ad featured a Native American man weeping at the sight of a motorist dumping garbage. “People Start Pollution. People Can Stop It,” was the slogan...

    ...At face value, these efforts seem benevolent, but they obscure the real problem, which is the role that corporate polluters play in the plastic problem. This clever misdirection has led journalist and author Heather Rogers to describe Keep America Beautiful as the first corporate greenwashing front, as it has helped shift the public focus to consumer recycling behaviour and thwarted legislation that would increase extended producer responsibility for waste management.
     
    In an environment where people are more and more open to center left economic policies, I am genuinely convinced that Big Business and Government are at the very least deeply grateful to the contemporary left, and possibly bankrolling it. If you can convince people that economic redistribution means destroying society and any sense of taking responsibility for yourself, then that's playing into the globalists' hands.

    Speaking of, there's a new Democratic crusade on school lunch debt. Apparently, it's a civil rights violation to expect parents to either make their kids a sandwich for school, or actually pay for a meal in the cafeteria. And the "shaming" - not even refusing to feed the kids, just giving them a sandwich and some fruit - is up there with lynching. I'm on the center left, and this is actually happening, and it's repugnant.

    https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2019/06/ilhan-omar-school-lunch-debt-shaming-bill.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/07/20/school-district-parents-pay-your-lunch-debt-or-your-kids-might-wind-up-foster-care/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.23274f462802

    https://civileats.com/2019/05/21/can-we-stop-kids-from-being-shamed-over-school-lunch-debt/

    Some districts are now saying that they'll take kids into foster care if the parents don't pay, and the usual suspects are outraged (the Washington Post, naturally, is ON this), but it's perfectly reasonable. I'm normally very sympathetic to people who can't afford [X], but if you're genuinely so out of it you can't slap two slices of bread around some filling the put it in a bag or container, and you decide to cheat the school instead, you have no business having kids. Get it together.

    you have no business having kids

    Covers a fair amount out there. But whaddaya? “The baby market can stay irrational longer than careful society can stay solvent.”

  37. @PhysicistDave
    A few days ago, a friend who self-identifies as a far Leftist and who lives in San Francisco volunteered to me that she was disgusted by the filth on the streets and sidewalks of San Francisco: she correctly attributed it to homeless people.

    She went on, of course, to add that she did not blame the homeless people themselves for being homeless (I don't either -- there are larger driving problems here, ranging from housing restrictions to how we deal with mentally disturbed people and drug abusers).

    But, I think the destruction of public spaces in California's once beautiful cities is starting to become salient. A lot of things have gone wrong, and reality is starting to trump ideology.

    But, I think the destruction of public spaces in California’s once beautiful cities is starting to become salient. A lot of things have gone wrong, and reality is starting to trump ideology.

    The reality is perhaps a bit worse than you think. Homeless are a major revenue source for West Coast cities (and apparently for Austin, TX). Your city governments are doing this to you for the headcount and the budget it gives their human services (cannibals?) departments.

    Counterinsurgency

  38. @PhysicistDave
    A few days ago, a friend who self-identifies as a far Leftist and who lives in San Francisco volunteered to me that she was disgusted by the filth on the streets and sidewalks of San Francisco: she correctly attributed it to homeless people.

    She went on, of course, to add that she did not blame the homeless people themselves for being homeless (I don't either -- there are larger driving problems here, ranging from housing restrictions to how we deal with mentally disturbed people and drug abusers).

    But, I think the destruction of public spaces in California's once beautiful cities is starting to become salient. A lot of things have gone wrong, and reality is starting to trump ideology.

    But, I think the destruction of public spaces in California’s once beautiful cities is starting to become salient. A lot of things have gone wrong, and reality is starting to trump ideology.

    The reality is perhaps a bit worse than you think. Homeless are a major revenue source for West Coast cities (and apparently for Austin, TX). Your city governments are doing this to you for the headcount and the budget it gives their human services (cannibals?) departments.

    Counterinsurgency

  39. @Anon
    I kind of feel for Amy Wax. They are going to destroy her.

    She is a really impressive woman. She is a law professor, which does not have the prestige it might have because of the large numbers of black Harvard Law graduates working in the profession who washed out of the practice of law after a couple of years and got hired as diversity hires. Amy graduated from Harvard Medical School with an M.D., went right into Harvard Law but then did a residency in neurology, and got her J.D. from Columbia, editing the law review, clerked at the district court of appeals level, entered the Justice Department and argued more than a dozen Supreme Court cases. She can hold her own in an argument even while coming across as your beloved grandmother. And she is definitely a "noticer."

    Rosie Gray is a fellow Jew, but less accomplished. She has a publishing contract to write a takedown of right-wing internet media, so she sees everything through that filter. So her non-P.C. predecessors must die.

    The littering thing probably does seem similar to racist "dirty [fill in victim group]" "tropes." The victim group could be Jews, of course. Or rural white Southerners. But hey.

    Nicholas Wade's book kind of stepped in this area, which is partly why he enraged people. Social characteristics are partially genetic (as is everything, Turkheimer's First Law of Behavioral Genetics). Wade did however think that the genetic "hint" was weak and could be easily outweighed by cultural pressure.

    Cultural behavioral characteristics are very important, and although they seem tiny looked at individually, they add up to a completely different experience. I live in Japan, and the sum total is a very clean and safe environment (there is literally no place I wouldn't walk at 2:00 a.m., although I wouldn't say the same for a woman). But there are annoying things, like trash burning by oldsters -- I was Trash Tommy when I called the fire department on my neighbors for that, who were lectured on the law and changed their ways, but gave me the side-eye for a year or two after. But I have come to feel a bit guilty about it. I now feel that I am here to assimilate, not bring "superior" U.S. culture.

    ::::::::::

    Somewhat on topic is the Santa Monica Place Nike incident from yesterday. A black father and a mother (not sure of her race) and their light-skinned toddler visited a Nike store. An employee followed them out and asked to see a receipt for the miniature basketball he had in his hands. They said they paid for it, so they didn't need to show a receipt, although they had one. The store called the cops over, and the parents eventually, after recording a sufficiently long video, returned the ball.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-family-says-they-were-racially-profiled-nike-store-accused-n1031166

    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/07/18/nike-store-santa-monica-basketball-black-family-white-manager/

    Pet peeve: What actually happened, minute by minute, and why doesn't the media figure that out and report it? This is my guess:

    1. Family roams through Nike store.

    2 Kid carries ball around in Nike store, perhaps is noticed by staff.

    3. Parents decides to buy ball for kid.

    4. Ball is rung up and put in a bag. [My supposition as a prior Nike store customer.]

    5. Parent removes ball from bag inside store and gives ball to kid. [Ditto.}

    6. Employee notices unbagged ball and asks to see receipt.

    7. Father says (a) No, because I'm telling you I paid for it, and (b) store clerks are always following me in stores.

    8. Store clerk cannot rely on father's claim to have paid since anyone could say that, and store clerk doesn't really care about his perceived treatment in other stores since that has nothing to do with anything here.

    9. Cops come over (they are stationed in the mall) and parents yell down any attempt to discuss the matter, or at least parents edit down the video to make it seem so.

    10. Eventually, in edit-room-floor section, parents show receipt and demand refund, which they get.

    The side of the aggrieved blacks: We are followed around in stores, so we say and so we perceive, therefore as reparations we should be treated with different standards and our screamed word should be equivalent to showing a receipt. Also, we should be allow to unbag goods inside stores and then walk out and not be challenged. Also, if we want to set up a barbecue inside the store, that also should be allowed.

    The store's side: Shoplifting is a problem. To combat that we bag paid items with a receipt. Customers should not remove merchandise from bags within the store, and at any rate should show their receipt if a requested. You're always welcome to pass your opinions on to the store management.

    Thinking the story through like this is the job of any media that reports on it. Then they can either ask questions and report on responses, or if the video poster is not cooperative, pose the questions and note that they remain unanswered.

    Two interesting things to note about the coverage:

    -- Nike gave a pro forma apology, but also said, "we are currently investigating the facts." How completely racist to think that there are facts that are not contained in a viral video! And, is there store survellance video, inside and out? Why isn't the media asking about that?

    -- The local CBS coverage show a hint of the narrative fraying in their report: "Stallworth and Dickerson are heard on the video insisting that they purchased the ball ... At one point, one of them is heard referring to the manager as 'stupid' and apparently calling one of the officers 'dumbass.'"

    Nike incident

    Highlights several things.

    Rules are to smooth out interactions; having a receipt available is part of the game; but a higher rule played by many is that Blacks are holy and beyond any suspicion.

    Customer/store is at times an adversarial relationship. Part of civilized life is recognizing this and not letting things get too contentious.

  40. Young people may not be aware that in the late ’50s, we routinely tossed any sort of trash out of the car window: from gum wrappers and fast-food trash to diapers.

    I know highway beautification was a cause Lady Bird Johnson espoused in the 1960s, but exactly how bad was the littering problem? I don’t remember anything particularly bad, from early childhood There was a bunch of billboards along the Interstate, but in my admittedly faint memory, I don’t recall anything akin to littered streets common in the neighborhoods Mr. Sailer is talking about.

    There’s well-known scene in Matthew Weiner’s Mad Men in which he highlights Don Draper’s family tossing the entire contents of a finished picnic onto the grass, but that’s been quite thoroughly debunked, here and elsewhere, as Matthew Weiner’s dishonest, exaggerated retconning slur on what was a largely WASP America.

    • Agree: TTSSYF
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    I wasn't in the noticing stage during Lady Bird Johnson's campaign*, but during the 1970's, I can tell you, Piltdown, that friends of mine threw wrappers and coke cans out of the car window with no thought. (I didn't, but only because my parents taught me differently and kept a trash bag in each car.).

    It adds up. The thing is, for some of the trash, well, the 3,000,000 square mile US of A can clean up after ITSELF a lot better with < 200 million people, than with 330 million (and only going higher), as Peak Stupidity discussed in Are American Indians slobs? and further in Toward Sustainable Stupidity.

    Now, China, in contrast, has been overpopulated for a LONG LONG TIME (they had a larger population in the mid-1800's than America has TODAY!). They are still 1,400,000,000 in a space approximately half the size of the continental US, after subtracting Tibet and Xinjang. Here's a humorous anecdote on Litterbugs in China.

    .

    * and kudos to her for having one of the better of the unelected 1st lady's campaigns vs. the "just say no" BS out of Nancy Reagan, and the "eat your broccoli" thing out of fat-assed Michelle Obama.

    , @David
    In Ben Franklin's Autobiography, he spends a surprising amount of space discussing the various methods he came up with of efficiently collecting and removing household waste from his neighborhood.
  41. @PhysicistDave
    A few days ago, a friend who self-identifies as a far Leftist and who lives in San Francisco volunteered to me that she was disgusted by the filth on the streets and sidewalks of San Francisco: she correctly attributed it to homeless people.

    She went on, of course, to add that she did not blame the homeless people themselves for being homeless (I don't either -- there are larger driving problems here, ranging from housing restrictions to how we deal with mentally disturbed people and drug abusers).

    But, I think the destruction of public spaces in California's once beautiful cities is starting to become salient. A lot of things have gone wrong, and reality is starting to trump ideology.

    That was one of the things that started to take down the post-New Deal labor coalition back in the 70s, as I recall; striking workers leaving garbage uncollected, etc.

  42. @IHTG
    If so, it's a gatekeeper operation that you desperately need

    Oh, I don’t know. The neocons probably did help put the Goldwater movement over the top but 30 years later we got the Iraq War.

    Honestly I’m not influential enough to do much either way but I would not be so sanguine. It’s entirely possible they can water down the racial part *just* enough to attract Latinos and Asians who want to assimilate and build a majority going forward after Trump that restores the country to something approximating what it used to be. It’s also possible they get obsessed with Jewish antisemitism obsessions (and you know these as well as I do) and virtue-signalling to show they’re not real racists and the whole thing collapses into a think-tank with five people somewhere in DC. The challenge is always to build a movement that has enough brains to attract think-tank people to staff your administration and enough passion and popular appeal to get people to vote for it.

    I’d bet on failure, but then again I didn’t think Trump would win either.

    • Replies: @IHTG
    My model is Nigel Farage/UKIP vs the BNP.
    , @TomSchmidt
    READ Fire and Fury, by Michael Wolff. Trump didn't think he would win, either, and neither did his family. They thought the election would be good for business. The book gives a lot of credit to Steve Bannon for the win, since he adopted the Sailer Strategy Of energizing working-class whites.

    Trump has delivered for Israel (embassy), and delivered for plutocrats (2017 tax cut that went mostly into stock buybacks for the globalist elite at the top of corporations), and I think things have marginally improved, employment-wise for the WWC (frankly, the entire working class). But he hasn't delivered for his base like he has for his donors, and he is vulnerable there. If the Democrats could contemplate being nice to the WWC, they'd win hands down.
  43. @Anon
    Before the 1970s, the US had plenty of litterbugs. The decade of the 1970s was a decade of consciousness-raising about it. Of course, they also used to fine people if they did it. If every Littering Latino got zapped with a fine, at least some of them would smarten up and we'd be much better off.

    The problem is, of course, you have to be teachable.

    Same in NZ in the 7os. It does seem to be a teachable thing. For some people. Almost no one in NZ, and no single local group litters now. Only some groups of tourists.

    In the UK where I currently live, the kind of person who wouldn’t litter in NZ, does. It seems to be improving though. The problem they have is that as they are improving the behaviour of the working class whites, the are importing groups of other people who are probably permanently unteachable.

  44. Just an anecdote but it is in line with the theme of this piece: I live in a small southern town that has a large chicken processing plant. In the early 90s the plant started bringing in large numbers of Guatemalans to work (not long afterwards the furniture plants that employed large numbers of working class whites and blacks closed and moved operations overseas). The Guatemalans liked to play soccer and they took over a local park for their weekend matches, this was only a problem in that they threw beer cans and other litter into the park-side creek, which city workers had to clean up. At the same time the local school system had to deal with their children whose sudden introduction into the system had caused a shortage of English as second language certified teachers per federal regulation. So, the feds were threatening to cut off the federal portion of the school system’s budget, probably something like six percent, unless they could find enough ESL teachers. Some yankee activist came and wrote a book about how the chicken plant was mistreating the Guatemalans (probably true enough), but he ignored the second and third order effects that they were having on our community.

  45. @Bill P
    It triggers them because it calls to mind a stereotypical (in their minds) snooty white chick saying "ewww, these people are dirty..."

    One has to keep in mind that the new elites are themselves kind of dirty. Perhaps elites have always been a bit dirty -- Orwell suggests so in his essay on his time in a prep school. Nothing triggers elites like mentioning their shortcomings, and they tend to explosively react to any hint that they might not be all they're cracked up to be.

    For all their shortcomings, one thing I have observed about the white working class is their cleanliness -- especially the men. I have been to many a domicile maintained by a working-class single man, and despite the garbage that may be spewing from the TV or stereo, the place is typically spotless. It puts me to shame.

    Going back some time, one of the most embarrassing incidents in my life was during grandparents' day when I was attending a private school. My grandfather, whom I loved dearly, came in his usual attire looking like an older version of the guy in the Norman Rockwell "Democracy" painting. Amidst all the suited up, stuffy old men, he looked around and decided the place was filthy, then promptly opened the janitor closet, grabbed a broom and a mop and started cleaning the place.

    I was horrified, but in retrospect he was right: the place was filthy. Nowadays, I'm ashamed that it embarrassed me so much, but he was making a statement in his own way. These people, with all their wealth and self-importance, can't even clean up after themselves. Maybe they think it's beneath their dignity to do so.

    And as much as they can afford to look down on their social inferiors, this is one thing that hits home because it is so basic. It's a legitimate and stinging critique: these are dirty people.

    As far as the Latino element is concerned, I don't think it's all that important. I know Latino/as who are very tidy and clean very well. Quite a few do it professionally. People might snark here, but who can deny that elevated standards of cleanliness have saved countless lives in the last 150 years? Janitor and maid are honorable lines of work.

    However, our elites do not clean and they are not clean. Jesus Christ himself made great hay of this fact. It is a very potent line of attack, and that's why they freak out about it.

    Instead of going after the Latinos here, I think people ought to point out that wealthy neighborhoods are overrun by rats. It's true. I'm from Seattle, and the rich have rats coming out of their toilets there.

    They freak out if you point out that Latinos litter because it hits so close to home. If, instead, you said that Latinos drink too much pop, they'd agree and suggest a tax on soda pop. But criticize people for being filthy? Oh no, you can't do that. Because then you might notice that the people telling you what to do are so filthy and wasteful themselves.

    This has to be one of the biggest piles of pseudo-intellectual nonsense I’ve ever read on this website with it’s oversimplification and sophomoric analysis, ridiculous extrapolation, and/or outright invention (e.g., your anecdotes). I’ll be you supported Obama when he sneered, “You didn’t build that!”

    • Troll: Twodees Partain
  46. “Pointing out the obvious reality of Latino Littering tends to drive liberals insane with rage. Why?”

    I had a somewhat related experience at dinner two nights ago when the drinks were served with paper straws. Folks at the table were giving praise to the restaurant for its contribution to the environment. I mentioned the Pacific plastic patch, and the ten rivers that account for 90 percent of the world’s plastic waste.

    Needless to say that did not go down well and the subject was quickly changed.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    I mentioned the Pacific plastic patch, and the ten rivers that account for 90 percent of the world’s plastic waste.

    Needless to say that did not go down well and the subject was quickly changed.
     

    Why didn't it go down well?
    , @Lot
    “paper straws“

    Every soggy cardboard-flavored sip brings a little dopamine hit of smugness!
    , @Anon
    The plastic waste that ends up in those rivers have their origin in places like the US. The US exports its plastic waste:

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/oct/05/huge-rise-us-plastic-waste-shipments-to-poor-countries-china-ban-thailand-malaysia-vietnam

    "“Instead of taking responsibility for their own waste, US companies are exploiting developing countries that lack the regulation to protect themselves,” said John Hocevar, Oceans campaign director for Greenpeace USA.

    The waste, some of which consists of household recycling produced in the US, includes single-use plastic bottles, plastic bags and food wrappings, said Hocevar. It can, however, contain toxic materials.

    “It’s a problem for the US and other developed countries to produce, often, toxic material which they can’t or won’t take care of themselves.”"
  47. You should mention that Amy Wax is Jewish. Because always mentioning the Jews when they defend Immigratiin-invasion and minority rights and not when they attack it is not fair and contribute to a biased view of the Jewish contribution.

    The most paradoxical comment I have read was here somme people saying Unz.com was the only site where the power of the Jewish people through media and culture industry, or ZOG theory, is brought to attention, without saying that Ron Unz provides the critical platform in the less cryptic way possible because he is the eponymous of it by definition.

    Give the jews their credit in full.

    • Replies: @Apollo
    I fully concur. As much flak as Jewish people get in regards to these things (often rightly so) they deserve credit when one of their own is willing to bite a bullet this big for the whites.
  48. @PhysicistDave
    Jesse wrote:

    But. on a group level, they have the same kind of problems white Americans had before the 1950s.
     
    Young people may not be aware that in the late '50s, we routinely tossed any sort of trash out of the car window: from gum wrappers and fast-food trash to diapers. Why worry?

    Then, people started to notice that we were fouling our own nest, and this became socially and culturally unacceptable.

    Culture can change. But, it often takes a conscious effort and a sense of common belonging.

    I remember the days, and my parents telling us not to, then we had the whole “its biodegradable” stuff when you were riding with a fellow teen.

    You hit on an important point that I think demonstrates the core problem–whites do this and that, and a lot of things, most things, because of a perception of investment in one’s own culture, and/or future. Other groups in the US, don’t, because they don’t see this as their thing–and I don’t mean that in a liberal “we-haven’t-made-them-feel-welcomed” type of way, but more of the fact that they recognize it’s just a place they happen to “work” and “live” in for now, set up by whites, who in their minds, will always be around to fix things, to improve things, to respond to micro-problems (like feeding their immigrant children free lunches at school). There’s no investment because there is no past, and no future, just the present. Which of course, is a genetic trait that reveals itself in their own home nations.

    These things are true to varying degrees. There are plenty of latinos who keep very nice homes and lawns, akin to lower-middle class whites of days-gone-by, who also took pride in such things despite not being “rich” or high class.

  49. @Gaius Gracchus
    So it appears that the massive concern over littering and the public shaming over it was merely a tool of social control and nothing more, much like other shaming campaigns.

    Well yeah. So is parenting.

    Litter sucked.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    Present tense, not past. Litter is ubiquitous around my area. Not, I hasten to add, in my immediate neighborhood, as lots of us will pick up anything we can on our walks. But out on the main roads and freeways where people don't walk, the trash is disgusting.

    I used to think it was blacks, since when I worked in black ghetto I saw people throwing stuff around. But there are almost no blacks around here, and there are tons of Mexicans/Central Americans as well as low-class Slavs. But that may not be fair either. Likely it's all the homeless that roam around (although that wouldn't explain the trash on the freeways).
  50. Hispanic littering and dumping cooking oil and grease on the ground was mentioned in Victor Davis Hanson’s book Mexifornia. Paper litter is bad enough, but anything edible dumped on the ground is almost certain to attract rats. Evidently typhus-infested rats are becoming a problem in Los Angeles.

    Paris was not a particularly clean city even before it began its ongoing transition to a third-world city.

  51. @PhysicistDave
    A few days ago, a friend who self-identifies as a far Leftist and who lives in San Francisco volunteered to me that she was disgusted by the filth on the streets and sidewalks of San Francisco: she correctly attributed it to homeless people.

    She went on, of course, to add that she did not blame the homeless people themselves for being homeless (I don't either -- there are larger driving problems here, ranging from housing restrictions to how we deal with mentally disturbed people and drug abusers).

    But, I think the destruction of public spaces in California's once beautiful cities is starting to become salient. A lot of things have gone wrong, and reality is starting to trump ideology.

    It wasn’t/isn’t driven by ideology – there isn’t any there there idea wise. It’s all attitude/feeling based.

    When forced to defend it that reality finally becomes clear, hence the anger from those who pride themselves on intellect.

  52. @Paul
    Why Does Mentioning Latino Littering Trigger Liberals Into Rage?


    I think it triggers cognitive dissonance in them. Affluent white liberals do not want slobs littering in their neighborhoods but do not want to be seen criticizing Latino behavior?

    AGREE. You got it. They know they must lie about this to be Good People, but they don’t like being called out as liars. Hence, they lash out first to preempt that.

  53. @JimB
    I would have thought importation of Iron Age rape culture would be of greater concern than litter, but since our press and keeps immigrant sexual brutalization of women, animals, and children off the front page, we default to concerns over littering.

    Gotta start somewhere. Turn that snobbery to good use.

  54. Litter can be seen as the flora that grows in tragic dirt. When I visit and work in areas known for their diversity, the litter is everywhere, most noticeably the thousands of plastic bags stuck in chain link fences and trees. Like litter, poverty, low IQ and poor schools all seem to flourish in these places. When I travel through predominately White and Asian suburban towns, the litter disappears and I know that the magic dirt of these towns will also produce affluence, higher IQs and good schools. So perhaps we can stop Latino littering simply by moving them away from the tragic dirt.

    • Replies: @vinteuil

    ...the thousands of plastic bags stuck in chain link fences and trees.
     
    Yeah, the plastic bags stuck in trees - what's up with that? It's like the unmistakable signature of a s***-hole country. You'd think the authorities would want to do something about it, if only to attract more tourist dollars.
  55. @Anon
    I kind of feel for Amy Wax. They are going to destroy her.

    She is a really impressive woman. She is a law professor, which does not have the prestige it might have because of the large numbers of black Harvard Law graduates working in the profession who washed out of the practice of law after a couple of years and got hired as diversity hires. Amy graduated from Harvard Medical School with an M.D., went right into Harvard Law but then did a residency in neurology, and got her J.D. from Columbia, editing the law review, clerked at the district court of appeals level, entered the Justice Department and argued more than a dozen Supreme Court cases. She can hold her own in an argument even while coming across as your beloved grandmother. And she is definitely a "noticer."

    Rosie Gray is a fellow Jew, but less accomplished. She has a publishing contract to write a takedown of right-wing internet media, so she sees everything through that filter. So her non-P.C. predecessors must die.

    The littering thing probably does seem similar to racist "dirty [fill in victim group]" "tropes." The victim group could be Jews, of course. Or rural white Southerners. But hey.

    Nicholas Wade's book kind of stepped in this area, which is partly why he enraged people. Social characteristics are partially genetic (as is everything, Turkheimer's First Law of Behavioral Genetics). Wade did however think that the genetic "hint" was weak and could be easily outweighed by cultural pressure.

    Cultural behavioral characteristics are very important, and although they seem tiny looked at individually, they add up to a completely different experience. I live in Japan, and the sum total is a very clean and safe environment (there is literally no place I wouldn't walk at 2:00 a.m., although I wouldn't say the same for a woman). But there are annoying things, like trash burning by oldsters -- I was Trash Tommy when I called the fire department on my neighbors for that, who were lectured on the law and changed their ways, but gave me the side-eye for a year or two after. But I have come to feel a bit guilty about it. I now feel that I am here to assimilate, not bring "superior" U.S. culture.

    ::::::::::

    Somewhat on topic is the Santa Monica Place Nike incident from yesterday. A black father and a mother (not sure of her race) and their light-skinned toddler visited a Nike store. An employee followed them out and asked to see a receipt for the miniature basketball he had in his hands. They said they paid for it, so they didn't need to show a receipt, although they had one. The store called the cops over, and the parents eventually, after recording a sufficiently long video, returned the ball.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-family-says-they-were-racially-profiled-nike-store-accused-n1031166

    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/07/18/nike-store-santa-monica-basketball-black-family-white-manager/

    Pet peeve: What actually happened, minute by minute, and why doesn't the media figure that out and report it? This is my guess:

    1. Family roams through Nike store.

    2 Kid carries ball around in Nike store, perhaps is noticed by staff.

    3. Parents decides to buy ball for kid.

    4. Ball is rung up and put in a bag. [My supposition as a prior Nike store customer.]

    5. Parent removes ball from bag inside store and gives ball to kid. [Ditto.}

    6. Employee notices unbagged ball and asks to see receipt.

    7. Father says (a) No, because I'm telling you I paid for it, and (b) store clerks are always following me in stores.

    8. Store clerk cannot rely on father's claim to have paid since anyone could say that, and store clerk doesn't really care about his perceived treatment in other stores since that has nothing to do with anything here.

    9. Cops come over (they are stationed in the mall) and parents yell down any attempt to discuss the matter, or at least parents edit down the video to make it seem so.

    10. Eventually, in edit-room-floor section, parents show receipt and demand refund, which they get.

    The side of the aggrieved blacks: We are followed around in stores, so we say and so we perceive, therefore as reparations we should be treated with different standards and our screamed word should be equivalent to showing a receipt. Also, we should be allow to unbag goods inside stores and then walk out and not be challenged. Also, if we want to set up a barbecue inside the store, that also should be allowed.

    The store's side: Shoplifting is a problem. To combat that we bag paid items with a receipt. Customers should not remove merchandise from bags within the store, and at any rate should show their receipt if a requested. You're always welcome to pass your opinions on to the store management.

    Thinking the story through like this is the job of any media that reports on it. Then they can either ask questions and report on responses, or if the video poster is not cooperative, pose the questions and note that they remain unanswered.

    Two interesting things to note about the coverage:

    -- Nike gave a pro forma apology, but also said, "we are currently investigating the facts." How completely racist to think that there are facts that are not contained in a viral video! And, is there store survellance video, inside and out? Why isn't the media asking about that?

    -- The local CBS coverage show a hint of the narrative fraying in their report: "Stallworth and Dickerson are heard on the video insisting that they purchased the ball ... At one point, one of them is heard referring to the manager as 'stupid' and apparently calling one of the officers 'dumbass.'"

    Rosie Gray is a fellow Jew, but less accomplished.

    The rest is commentary.

    Steve isn’t really mystified by the anger. Playing dumb has passed its sell-by date.

    • Replies: @vinteuil

    Playing dumb has passed its sell-by date.
     
    Well, one can always hope. But I fear it's more likely that we're now entering another age where only those who play dumb will survive.
  56. @IHTG
    If so, it's a gatekeeper operation that you desperately need

    How’s that second person working for you?

    What’s your plan for Steve’s favorite graph?

  57. @PiltdownMan

    Young people may not be aware that in the late ’50s, we routinely tossed any sort of trash out of the car window: from gum wrappers and fast-food trash to diapers.
     
    I know highway beautification was a cause Lady Bird Johnson espoused in the 1960s, but exactly how bad was the littering problem? I don't remember anything particularly bad, from early childhood There was a bunch of billboards along the Interstate, but in my admittedly faint memory, I don't recall anything akin to littered streets common in the neighborhoods Mr. Sailer is talking about.

    There's well-known scene in Matthew Weiner's Mad Men in which he highlights Don Draper's family tossing the entire contents of a finished picnic onto the grass, but that's been quite thoroughly debunked, here and elsewhere, as Matthew Weiner's dishonest, exaggerated retconning slur on what was a largely WASP America.

    I wasn’t in the noticing stage during Lady Bird Johnson’s campaign*, but during the 1970’s, I can tell you, Piltdown, that friends of mine threw wrappers and coke cans out of the car window with no thought. (I didn’t, but only because my parents taught me differently and kept a trash bag in each car.).

    It adds up. The thing is, for some of the trash, well, the 3,000,000 square mile US of A can clean up after ITSELF a lot better with < 200 million people, than with 330 million (and only going higher), as Peak Stupidity discussed in Are American Indians slobs? and further in Toward Sustainable Stupidity.

    Now, China, in contrast, has been overpopulated for a LONG LONG TIME (they had a larger population in the mid-1800’s than America has TODAY!). They are still 1,400,000,000 in a space approximately half the size of the continental US, after subtracting Tibet and Xinjang. Here’s a humorous anecdote on Litterbugs in China.

    .

    * and kudos to her for having one of the better of the unelected 1st lady’s campaigns vs. the “just say no” BS out of Nancy Reagan, and the “eat your broccoli” thing out of fat-assed Michelle Obama.

  58. Anon[298] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bill P
    It triggers them because it calls to mind a stereotypical (in their minds) snooty white chick saying "ewww, these people are dirty..."

    One has to keep in mind that the new elites are themselves kind of dirty. Perhaps elites have always been a bit dirty -- Orwell suggests so in his essay on his time in a prep school. Nothing triggers elites like mentioning their shortcomings, and they tend to explosively react to any hint that they might not be all they're cracked up to be.

    For all their shortcomings, one thing I have observed about the white working class is their cleanliness -- especially the men. I have been to many a domicile maintained by a working-class single man, and despite the garbage that may be spewing from the TV or stereo, the place is typically spotless. It puts me to shame.

    Going back some time, one of the most embarrassing incidents in my life was during grandparents' day when I was attending a private school. My grandfather, whom I loved dearly, came in his usual attire looking like an older version of the guy in the Norman Rockwell "Democracy" painting. Amidst all the suited up, stuffy old men, he looked around and decided the place was filthy, then promptly opened the janitor closet, grabbed a broom and a mop and started cleaning the place.

    I was horrified, but in retrospect he was right: the place was filthy. Nowadays, I'm ashamed that it embarrassed me so much, but he was making a statement in his own way. These people, with all their wealth and self-importance, can't even clean up after themselves. Maybe they think it's beneath their dignity to do so.

    And as much as they can afford to look down on their social inferiors, this is one thing that hits home because it is so basic. It's a legitimate and stinging critique: these are dirty people.

    As far as the Latino element is concerned, I don't think it's all that important. I know Latino/as who are very tidy and clean very well. Quite a few do it professionally. People might snark here, but who can deny that elevated standards of cleanliness have saved countless lives in the last 150 years? Janitor and maid are honorable lines of work.

    However, our elites do not clean and they are not clean. Jesus Christ himself made great hay of this fact. It is a very potent line of attack, and that's why they freak out about it.

    Instead of going after the Latinos here, I think people ought to point out that wealthy neighborhoods are overrun by rats. It's true. I'm from Seattle, and the rich have rats coming out of their toilets there.

    They freak out if you point out that Latinos litter because it hits so close to home. If, instead, you said that Latinos drink too much pop, they'd agree and suggest a tax on soda pop. But criticize people for being filthy? Oh no, you can't do that. Because then you might notice that the people telling you what to do are so filthy and wasteful themselves.

    No, they don’t react because they’re filthy. They aren’t, but the comment reminds them that their pursuit of cleanliness betrays their middle class origin.

    The obsession with “cleanliness” is a middle class marker. The “top out of sight” and “bottom out of sight,” to use Paul Fussell’s useful terms, have, as he says, much in common. Old clothes, no pocket money, constant travelling from house to house, etc.

    I recall the story of an American who joined a monastery somewhere in Europe, and was horrified to learn he could only bathe once a week. He requested an interview with the abbot to ask for this to be reconsidered, and later recalled that “at some point I realized I was telling this immensely holy man that he should learn that ‘cleanliness was next to godliness.’”

    Our so-called elites are a bunch of Puritans who made lots of money in filthy trade.

  59. @Anon
    Before the 1970s, the US had plenty of litterbugs. The decade of the 1970s was a decade of consciousness-raising about it. Of course, they also used to fine people if they did it. If every Littering Latino got zapped with a fine, at least some of them would smarten up and we'd be much better off.

    The problem is, of course, you have to be teachable.

    “If every Littering Latino got zapped with a fine, at least some of them would smarten up and we’d be much better off.”

    In some metropolises they no longer prosecute shoplifting or petty theft because it hurts black bodies. Start ticketing too many Latinos or non whites for littering and soon the littering and dumping laws will go the way of the dodo bird.

  60. @PiltdownMan
    Japan has a Chicano sub-culture. Spotlessly clean, of course, and so, a hopeless fail.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8bMLcCxxAA

    Brownface! Cultural appropriation!

  61. @SFG
    Oh, I don't know. The neocons probably did help put the Goldwater movement over the top but 30 years later we got the Iraq War.

    Honestly I'm not influential enough to do much either way but I would not be so sanguine. It's entirely possible they can water down the racial part *just* enough to attract Latinos and Asians who want to assimilate and build a majority going forward after Trump that restores the country to something approximating what it used to be. It's also possible they get obsessed with Jewish antisemitism obsessions (and you know these as well as I do) and virtue-signalling to show they're not real racists and the whole thing collapses into a think-tank with five people somewhere in DC. The challenge is always to build a movement that has enough brains to attract think-tank people to staff your administration and enough passion and popular appeal to get people to vote for it.

    I'd bet on failure, but then again I didn't think Trump would win either.

    My model is Nigel Farage/UKIP vs the BNP.

  62. @Bill P
    It triggers them because it calls to mind a stereotypical (in their minds) snooty white chick saying "ewww, these people are dirty..."

    One has to keep in mind that the new elites are themselves kind of dirty. Perhaps elites have always been a bit dirty -- Orwell suggests so in his essay on his time in a prep school. Nothing triggers elites like mentioning their shortcomings, and they tend to explosively react to any hint that they might not be all they're cracked up to be.

    For all their shortcomings, one thing I have observed about the white working class is their cleanliness -- especially the men. I have been to many a domicile maintained by a working-class single man, and despite the garbage that may be spewing from the TV or stereo, the place is typically spotless. It puts me to shame.

    Going back some time, one of the most embarrassing incidents in my life was during grandparents' day when I was attending a private school. My grandfather, whom I loved dearly, came in his usual attire looking like an older version of the guy in the Norman Rockwell "Democracy" painting. Amidst all the suited up, stuffy old men, he looked around and decided the place was filthy, then promptly opened the janitor closet, grabbed a broom and a mop and started cleaning the place.

    I was horrified, but in retrospect he was right: the place was filthy. Nowadays, I'm ashamed that it embarrassed me so much, but he was making a statement in his own way. These people, with all their wealth and self-importance, can't even clean up after themselves. Maybe they think it's beneath their dignity to do so.

    And as much as they can afford to look down on their social inferiors, this is one thing that hits home because it is so basic. It's a legitimate and stinging critique: these are dirty people.

    As far as the Latino element is concerned, I don't think it's all that important. I know Latino/as who are very tidy and clean very well. Quite a few do it professionally. People might snark here, but who can deny that elevated standards of cleanliness have saved countless lives in the last 150 years? Janitor and maid are honorable lines of work.

    However, our elites do not clean and they are not clean. Jesus Christ himself made great hay of this fact. It is a very potent line of attack, and that's why they freak out about it.

    Instead of going after the Latinos here, I think people ought to point out that wealthy neighborhoods are overrun by rats. It's true. I'm from Seattle, and the rich have rats coming out of their toilets there.

    They freak out if you point out that Latinos litter because it hits so close to home. If, instead, you said that Latinos drink too much pop, they'd agree and suggest a tax on soda pop. But criticize people for being filthy? Oh no, you can't do that. Because then you might notice that the people telling you what to do are so filthy and wasteful themselves.

    Ever been on a plane with a bunch of hassidics?

  63. “Why Does Mentioning Latino Littering Trigger Liberals Into Rage?”

    Good question for Fred Reed. The mere mention of Mexican garbage drives him completely round the bend. He accused “political HBDers” of photoshopping trash into a picture to make his beloved Mexicans look bad.

  64. @IHTG
    If so, it's a gatekeeper operation that you desperately need

    Thanks to Buckley we’ve been locked into endless foreign wars.

    Instead we could have followed the traditional American foreign policy of Washington’s Farewell Address.

    But we have to subsidize aggressive Zionists, economic competitors in ROK/JP/ROC, and European welfare states.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Go back to 1950 for a second. The Soviet Union was definitely interested in spreading Communism, and if Europe had gone commie it's not entirely impossible there would be missiles in France aimed at us now or, God forbid, German Communists running a police state with German efficiency rather than Russian. (Just because Russians can't run a socialist state doesn't mean Germans couldn't.)

    There was a whole neocon/paleocon confluence of interests that appeared when the Soviet Union turned on Israel (to support anticolonialist Arabs against Western Europe) that dissolved after 1989 and, with the neocons running things, got us into Iraq. So--it worked for 40 years.

    Buckley's concern was less being nice to Jews than the unpalatability of antisemitism (even at the vague Mencken level) so soon after Hitler. There were still people who had fought WW2 and seen the camps, after all. (Yeah, they were real. It doesn't excuse second-wave feminism or the Iraq Attaq, but what happened happened.) Any political movement, at least in the USA with its big two-party system and centrist tendencies, has to differentiate itself from its extremists on the same side--you saw this during the Cold War with liberal anticommunism. America moves slowly.

    Also, I have stopped caring about the Middle East after Iraq, but I'm not sure we really want China overrunning Japan and South Korea.
  65. @Jesse
    This answers a few questions I've been having about the left's attitude towards litter. They are, I kid you not, now claiming that anti littering initiatives are playing into the neoliberal model by, uh, just read it, okay?


    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jun/14/the-mindfulness-conspiracy-capitalist-spirituality

    In the 1950s, the “Keep America Beautiful” campaign urged individuals to pick up their trash. The project was bankrolled by corporations such as Coca-Cola, Anheuser-Busch and Phillip Morris, in partnership with the public service announcement Ad Council, which coined the term “litterbug” to shame miscreants. Two decades later, a famous TV ad featured a Native American man weeping at the sight of a motorist dumping garbage. “People Start Pollution. People Can Stop It,” was the slogan...

    ...At face value, these efforts seem benevolent, but they obscure the real problem, which is the role that corporate polluters play in the plastic problem. This clever misdirection has led journalist and author Heather Rogers to describe Keep America Beautiful as the first corporate greenwashing front, as it has helped shift the public focus to consumer recycling behaviour and thwarted legislation that would increase extended producer responsibility for waste management.
     
    In an environment where people are more and more open to center left economic policies, I am genuinely convinced that Big Business and Government are at the very least deeply grateful to the contemporary left, and possibly bankrolling it. If you can convince people that economic redistribution means destroying society and any sense of taking responsibility for yourself, then that's playing into the globalists' hands.

    Speaking of, there's a new Democratic crusade on school lunch debt. Apparently, it's a civil rights violation to expect parents to either make their kids a sandwich for school, or actually pay for a meal in the cafeteria. And the "shaming" - not even refusing to feed the kids, just giving them a sandwich and some fruit - is up there with lynching. I'm on the center left, and this is actually happening, and it's repugnant.

    https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2019/06/ilhan-omar-school-lunch-debt-shaming-bill.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/07/20/school-district-parents-pay-your-lunch-debt-or-your-kids-might-wind-up-foster-care/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.23274f462802

    https://civileats.com/2019/05/21/can-we-stop-kids-from-being-shamed-over-school-lunch-debt/

    Some districts are now saying that they'll take kids into foster care if the parents don't pay, and the usual suspects are outraged (the Washington Post, naturally, is ON this), but it's perfectly reasonable. I'm normally very sympathetic to people who can't afford [X], but if you're genuinely so out of it you can't slap two slices of bread around some filling the put it in a bag or container, and you decide to cheat the school instead, you have no business having kids. Get it together.

    No one gives a crap about unrelated kids except teh Naders of the world. The school lunch program is about dairy votes. in 2017 almost 8% of fluid milk sales was to school lunch program. What a fucking joke.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-01-09/big-dairy-is-about-to-flood-america-s-school-lunches-with-milk

    When our kids were at Miami Shores El, it was suddenly flooded with Haitian children. I would sometimes be at school for lunch, every kid got a half pint that we paid for, which they all dumped in the bin at the end of the cafeteria line.

    Makes me ill to talk about it, but considering it’s only a pimple on our Nat Debt, it’s a mere small example.

  66. @Paul
    And what's with the Hispanic graffiti thing? Why do they like to make their neighborhoods look trashy?

    Just like tracking deer, a disposable diaper in a parking lot is a sure sign that the most awsum and fecund folks have recently passed through.

  67. @Paul
    And what's with the Hispanic graffiti thing? Why do they like to make their neighborhoods look trashy?

    Marking their territory. Like a dog pissing on a tree.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    It’s Black repellent, nothing to steal here.
  68. Wax is wrong and should stop talking like an overage valley girl. Southern states are just as clean as northern ones because our endless supply of people in the criminal justice system keep the grass clean. Does Wax travel enough to compare? Like totally for sure.

    Also shaming is so nanny state. Real white people treat other adults like adults even when they’re behaving badly. Of course the Jews and Japs around here have taken a ginsu to the definition of “white” and expanded it to a ridiculous degree. Stop your nagging, “white” people.

    A place with trash is just a place without enough criminals to clean it up. Wax like so needs a hobby. Coincidentally your organization can adopt a section of highway to clean without having to be in the process of whittling down your sentence. Just saying…

  69. anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @PhysicistDave
    Jesse wrote:

    But. on a group level, they have the same kind of problems white Americans had before the 1950s.
     
    Young people may not be aware that in the late '50s, we routinely tossed any sort of trash out of the car window: from gum wrappers and fast-food trash to diapers. Why worry?

    Then, people started to notice that we were fouling our own nest, and this became socially and culturally unacceptable.

    Culture can change. But, it often takes a conscious effort and a sense of common belonging.

    “Young people may not be aware that in the late ’50s, we routinely tossed any sort of trash out of the car window: from gum wrappers and fast-food trash to diapers. Why worry?”

    This is horseshit.

    I grew up in that era, I suspect you did not, or you would know that diapers, at least up until sometime in the ’60’s, were cloth, not disposable, fairly expensive, and people did not throw them away. Because they were cloth, not disposable, and fairly expensive.

    There have always been slobs in America, and there still are. I have no doubt that roadside littering has decreased since the that era. That does not mean that the behavior you describe was ever considered normal, or acceptable.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    anonymous[156] wrote to me:

    This is horseshit.

    I grew up in that era, I suspect you did not, or you would know that diapers, at least up until sometime in the ’60’s, were cloth, not disposable, fairly expensive, and people did not throw them away.
     
    Ah, your memory has faded! I fear you forget what stuff people used to dump. Yes, I remember when disposable diapers cane in -- oh, I wished my mom had used them for my youngest brother so we could have avoided the stink!

    But, people did toss an amazing variety of junk. I specifically remember when my dad tried to toss some old baby blankets after my kid brother got sick in the car (you can fill in the details). Unfortunately, the Highway Patrol saw what he had done and made him pick them up and load them back into the car (ick!). At least the cop kindly told Dad he would not give him a ticket.

    It was the norm in middle-class American families back around 1960 to just toss all sots of trash out the car window. If you are old enough to remember but don't, it is time for you to see a neurologist.
    , @PhysicistDave
    By the way, if you had bothered to check Wikipedia, you would know that Pampers were introduced by P&G in 1961, right in the middle of the time period I am talking about.

    That matches my own memory: when my youngest brother was born in the mid-'60s, Pampers wer available and had been for a few years, but, sad to say for the general smell in our house, Mom insisted on cloth diapers.

    I'm not kidding: your memory really is failing you, you clearly have no inkling of this fact, and you do need to be checked out by a neurologist. They have meds now that can slow the process.
  70. @vinteuil
    ...and Western European countries can be almost as bad. E.g.: I love Napoli just this side of idolatry, but, my God, the trash on the streets really is a problem.

    Even the richest neighborhoods in Manhattan can’t seem to figure out bins for household trash.

  71. Love Amy Wax. That woman has more balls than all the men of Congress & leftism put together. She just tells it like it is.

    If more Jews think and speak like Amy Wax, they would be a lot less hated.

    Instead too many are Israel loving greedy bastard hypocritical libtards like Jared Kushner, Gary Cohn, Rob Reiner etc.

  72. @vinteuil
    It's not just Latinos.

    Try visiting, say, Turkey, or Nepal. There's trash, & shit, all over the place, all the time. It's the first thing you'll notice when you get there.

    Take a trip to Sub-Saharan Africa.

  73. Anonymous[131] • Disclaimer says:
    @istevefan

    “Pointing out the obvious reality of Latino Littering tends to drive liberals insane with rage. Why?”
     
    I had a somewhat related experience at dinner two nights ago when the drinks were served with paper straws. Folks at the table were giving praise to the restaurant for its contribution to the environment. I mentioned the Pacific plastic patch, and the ten rivers that account for 90 percent of the world's plastic waste.

    Needless to say that did not go down well and the subject was quickly changed.

    I mentioned the Pacific plastic patch, and the ten rivers that account for 90 percent of the world’s plastic waste.

    Needless to say that did not go down well and the subject was quickly changed.

    Why didn’t it go down well?

  74. When Trump took over littering at my fishing spots ended immediately. The “immigrants” do not want to get deported after being arrested for fishing without a license so they stopped stealing our fish.

    Also highway littering pre 1960 was indeed bad. Diapers were almost the least of it.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    "Also highway littering pre 1960 was indeed bad. Diapers were almost the least of it."

    Diapers were the absolute least of it. People didn't throw away diapers in those days. Diapers weren't disposable back then.
  75. the famous “Crying Indian” TV commercial in 1971 that racially shamed whites into not littering.

    A better one was “Don’t Mess With Texas”, which turned the good ol’ boys around not by shaming them, but by recruiting them. I’d read that highway litter went down by up to 80%.

    Research showed that good ol’ boys were indeed a large part of the litter problem. But, imagine, a campaign that treated them with respect? That’s revolutionary!

    Steve has said that Mexicans are wannabe Texans, so it’s conceivable that the campaign worked for them as well.

    • Replies: @syonredux

    A better one was “Don’t Mess With Texas”, which turned the good ol’ boys around not by shaming them, but by recruiting them. I’d read that highway litter went down by up to 80%.

    Research showed that good ol’ boys were indeed a large part of the litter problem. But, imagine, a campaign that treated them with respect? That’s revolutionary!

    Steve has said that Mexicans are wannabe Texans, so it’s conceivable that the campaign worked for them as well.
     
    Respect wasn't all of it, though. The "Don't Mess With Texas" campaign also relied on the fact that Texas good ol' boys love their state and want to protect it. Latinx don't love Anglo-America, and they certainly don't want to protect her....

    https://pics.me.me/no-means-no-mybordersmychoice-mybordersmychoice-32597816.png
    , @nebulafox
    Ah, someone else pointed it out before me. To the best of my knowledge, it did. Mexicans have been around in large numbers in Texas for a long time (some Tejanos have ancestors that were there before the Germans and Czechs came), unlike a lot of other states, and it's not like blue-collar young Mexican-American men differed much in their roadside littering habits from their white-or black-counterparts in the 1980s.

    Again: mix people who the guys would respect with the campaign telling them they *should* take action and practically work to defend something they respected-their state-rather than hectoring them and telling them they *needed* to do something for vaguely sentimental ideological reasons. Success. It's not that hard to figure out, really, but it does require treating them with respect, which certain people in today's politics seem to believe is beneath their dignity. I mean, they are the aspiring Guardians with fancy degrees. Shouldn't the peons be bending over to please them?

  76. Anonymous[131] • Disclaimer says:
    @vinteuil
    ...and Western European countries can be almost as bad. E.g.: I love Napoli just this side of idolatry, but, my God, the trash on the streets really is a problem.

    …and Western European countries can be almost as bad. E.g.: I love Napoli just this side of idolatry, but, my God, the trash on the streets really is a problem.

    #medmindset

  77. @vinteuil
    It's not just Latinos.

    Try visiting, say, Turkey, or Nepal. There's trash, & shit, all over the place, all the time. It's the first thing you'll notice when you get there.

    Try visiting, say, Turkey, or Nepal. There’s trash, & shit, all over the place, all the time. It’s the first thing you’ll notice when you get there.

    Well, the capital is Cat Man Doo, after all.

    Here’s Cat Man’s tribute to the city, with Alun Davies accompanying him on the Gitane:

    • Replies: @vinteuil
    Well, Katmandu wasn't quite that shitty.
    , @Autochthon
    There will only ever be one Catman, and he is (or at least was) a hot mess.

    https://youtu.be/BUibOVjlSn4
  78. @Reg Cæsar

    the famous “Crying Indian” TV commercial in 1971 that racially shamed whites into not littering.
     
    A better one was "Don't Mess With Texas", which turned the good ol' boys around not by shaming them, but by recruiting them. I'd read that highway litter went down by up to 80%.

    Research showed that good ol' boys were indeed a large part of the litter problem. But, imagine, a campaign that treated them with respect? That's revolutionary!

    Steve has said that Mexicans are wannabe Texans, so it's conceivable that the campaign worked for them as well.

    A better one was “Don’t Mess With Texas”, which turned the good ol’ boys around not by shaming them, but by recruiting them. I’d read that highway litter went down by up to 80%.

    Research showed that good ol’ boys were indeed a large part of the litter problem. But, imagine, a campaign that treated them with respect? That’s revolutionary!

    Steve has said that Mexicans are wannabe Texans, so it’s conceivable that the campaign worked for them as well.

    Respect wasn’t all of it, though. The “Don’t Mess With Texas” campaign also relied on the fact that Texas good ol’ boys love their state and want to protect it. Latinx don’t love Anglo-America, and they certainly don’t want to protect her….

    • Agree: Diversity is Great!
    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    The rape analogy is an excellent one that is spot on and people intuitively grasp.

    Open Borders--you don't have the right to say "no" to people coming in--is the ideology of the rapist.

    We need conservatives who are actually willing to say that--to fight. The left has all the vast propaganda organs--Hollyweird, establishment news media, academia, schools, mainline churchs--cranking 24-7-365. But on immigration their propaganda is so obviously stupid ... it's easy to thrash if conservatives/nationalists actually challenge it:

    Americans have the absolutely right to say "no" to foreigners trying to enter their nation--just like a woman has the right to say "no" to unwanted sex and we all have the right to say "no" to someone trying to enter our homes. The Democrats', the left's Open Borders ideology--the idea you don't have the right to say "no"--is the ideology of the rapist. Patriotic Americans reject it. We Americans have the right to say "no" to foreigners trying to push in--and "no means no".
     
  79. @PiltdownMan

    Young people may not be aware that in the late ’50s, we routinely tossed any sort of trash out of the car window: from gum wrappers and fast-food trash to diapers.
     
    I know highway beautification was a cause Lady Bird Johnson espoused in the 1960s, but exactly how bad was the littering problem? I don't remember anything particularly bad, from early childhood There was a bunch of billboards along the Interstate, but in my admittedly faint memory, I don't recall anything akin to littered streets common in the neighborhoods Mr. Sailer is talking about.

    There's well-known scene in Matthew Weiner's Mad Men in which he highlights Don Draper's family tossing the entire contents of a finished picnic onto the grass, but that's been quite thoroughly debunked, here and elsewhere, as Matthew Weiner's dishonest, exaggerated retconning slur on what was a largely WASP America.

    In Ben Franklin’s Autobiography, he spends a surprising amount of space discussing the various methods he came up with of efficiently collecting and removing household waste from his neighborhood.

  80. Anonymous[131] • Disclaimer says:
    @IHTG
    If so, it's a gatekeeper operation that you desperately need

    If so, it’s a gatekeeper operation that you desperately need

    Could you elaborate? Why desperately needed?

  81. @Gaius Gracchus
    So it appears that the massive concern over littering and the public shaming over it was merely a tool of social control and nothing more, much like other shaming campaigns.

    Like Desiderius said “litter sucked”.

    If you could have the death penalty for littering–cull the litterers–your nation would improve dramatically.

    Littering is a sign of high time-preference, low conscientiousness, lack of pro-sociality and generally low IQ. People who do not litter are precisely the people who can maintain critical social structures like the rule of law and the productive capability (physical plant and skills) of the nation.

    You see a community or nation where there’s trash everywhere and that’s what the joint is–a trashy place with trashy people.

    And yes, i’m seeing more litter pretty much every year in the US–super obvious in my middle class PNW neighborhood–as we diversify and community erodes.

    • Replies: @Gaius Gracchus
    My concern is not with littering. I enjoy a nice clean place.

    Instead, it is about shame utilizing campaigns regarding social control, that are largely a way for elites to scapegoat society for their own sins.

    The SF homesless problem is directly related to policy choices of the local elite. Likewise, the mass immigration problem and its associated litter problem is directly tied to the national oligarchs.

    The Sierra Club used to be anti immigrant until it was bribed by pro immigrant billionaires. As such, those hypocrites really don't care about the environment or anything else.

    All the climate change hysteria is fraudulent efforts at social control. AOC's chief of staff admitted the Green New Deal was not designed for climate change, but society transformation. IPCC leaders have occassionally admitted the same.

    Manipulation is manipulation. "Don't mess with Texas" cleaned litter, but industrial pollution is still largely unchecked. The elites don't conform to their own social controls.
  82. Amy Wax is the odd bird at that conference. The main guy, and convener, Yoram Hazony is trying to repackage deracinated individualism into a new folder but he has very clearly come out against White identity politics on Twitter (even as he is an ardent Jewish nationalist himself), to the surprise of noone.

    It’s a dead-end conference meant to channel White energies into Zionism and neoCohenist wars for Israel. White people need to self-organise along racial lines. We need large White organisations in the US, just as blacks, asians, jews, hispanics etc all have them. That means making White identity explicit as the central locus of organising.

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    "to the surprise of noone."

    Noone wasn't surprised? I didn't even know he was there. Oh, wait. You meant no one. Nobody is one word. No one is two.
  83. @Paul
    Why Does Mentioning Latino Littering Trigger Liberals Into Rage?


    I think it triggers cognitive dissonance in them. Affluent white liberals do not want slobs littering in their neighborhoods but do not want to be seen criticizing Latino behavior?

    yes.

  84. Over the years, I have heard many complaints in the media here in NYC from blacks and Hispanics that the city cleans litter in their neighborhoods less than in white neighborhoods and that that is why they are dirty. No awareness at all that their people litter more. I would bet both arms and both legs that NYC cleans up a lot more litter in non-white neighborhoods than white ones.

  85. @Desiderius
    Well yeah. So is parenting.

    Litter sucked.

    Present tense, not past. Litter is ubiquitous around my area. Not, I hasten to add, in my immediate neighborhood, as lots of us will pick up anything we can on our walks. But out on the main roads and freeways where people don’t walk, the trash is disgusting.

    I used to think it was blacks, since when I worked in black ghetto I saw people throwing stuff around. But there are almost no blacks around here, and there are tons of Mexicans/Central Americans as well as low-class Slavs. But that may not be fair either. Likely it’s all the homeless that roam around (although that wouldn’t explain the trash on the freeways).

    • Replies: @Marty
    I had an interesting experience over trash in Marin about ten years ago. At a busy freeway exit, across from the famous Frank Lloyd Wright courthouse, there’s a car wash/gas station, with a low, curved wire fence marking it off from the sidewalk. The fence had accumulated thousands of pieces of trash, doubtless due to the heavy Latino presence in the area. I went into the office and suggested to the proprietor, a Hindu, that it might be a classy thing to clean it all up. A week later, all the trash was gone, and in the decade since, it’s never bounced back to anything like the original disgusting look. Separately, that guy’s a prick. On a day he wasn’t there, the car wash broke down seconds after I paid. His people, and later him, refused to give me a refund.
  86. @Thomas
    Z-Man did this conference. His reports on his blog and here at Unz were a hoot. Basically an attempt to set up a new Buckley-style gatekeeper operation before the Trump-inspired yokels start noticing too many things.

    Z-Man did this conference. His reports on his blog and here at Unz were a hoot. Basically an attempt to set up a new Buckley-style gatekeeper operation before the Trump-inspired yokels start noticing too many things.

    I say some dead guy from Harvard named Huntington said the USA was a British Protestant settler nation.

    I say the USA is a European Christian nation because I am a Euro-Mongrel and I want to win the support of German voters in the future.

    This guy is from Indiana and Krauts are crawling the Hell all over Indiana.

    • Replies: @Thomas
    Vox Day did an excellent takedown of this fraud too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpIAc9by5iU

    I recommend everyone just Google the principals. This attempt to rebrand neoconservatism is so clumsy and obvious I almost feel like they're daring anyone to call it out for what it is to smear them with the anti-semite label. If that meme picture with the happy merchant wearing a normie mask was an actual institution, it would be this.

    https://burke.foundation/people/

    Some choicier excerpts:

    David Brog

    David Brog is the former Executive Director of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), an American pro-Israel Christian organization. He is the author of In Defense of Faith: The Judeo-Christian Idea and the Struggle for Humanity and Standing With Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State. On March 20, 2017 he released his latest book, Reclaiming Israel’s History: Roots, Rights, and the Struggle for Peace.

    Education and career
    Brog graduated from Princeton University with his bachelor's degree. He then went on to Harvard Law School where he graduated with his JD in 1991. After graduating from Harvard Law School, Brog served as an executive at America Online and practiced corporate law both in Israel and the United States. Afterwards he worked in the United States Senate for seven years, where he eventually became the chief of staff to Senator Arlen Specter and staff director of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He became the Executive Director of Christians United For Israel (CUFI), an American pro-Israel Christian organization in 2006.

    In July 2015, Brog was tapped to head a new group called the Maccabee Task Force, an entity formed by American philanthropists Sheldon Adelson and Haim Saban to combat Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) activities on the college campus level. Brog's exploits as head of the Maccabee Task Force were featured in a documentary entitled The Israel Lobby in the U.S.

    Personal life
    He is a cousin of former Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Barak, whose original surname was also "Brog" until he Hebraized it to Barak in 1972.

    Books
    Reclaiming Israel’s History: Roots, Rights, and the Struggle for Peace (2017)
    In Defense of Faith: The Judeo-Christian Idea and the Struggle for Humanity (2010)
    Standing With Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State (2006)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brog
     

    Christopher C. DeMuth (born August 5, 1946) is an American lawyer and a distinguished fellow at the Hudson Institute. He was the president of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a conservative think tank, from 1986 to 2008.
    ...
    Presidency of AEI
    ...
    DeMuth presided over the institute as a number of high-profile scholars joined AEI, including Charles Murray, Richard and Lynne Cheney, Michael Barone, James K. Glassman, Newt Gingrich, Karl Zinsmeister, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. As many as twenty AEI scholars served in the George W. Bush administration. AEI scholars also influenced the administration. Announcing his departure from AEI in 2007, DeMuth noted that the Iraq surge strategy was devised at AEI.
    ...
    Bibliography
    Christopher DeMuth and William Kristol, eds. The Neoconservative Imagination: Essays in Honor of Irving Kristol. Washington: AEI Press, 1995. (ISBN 0844738999)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_DeMuth
     
    From the Anti-Defamation League, of all places:

    Alyza Lewin
    President & General Counsel, The Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human Rights Under Law

    Alyza D. Lewin is a co-founder and partner in Lewin & Lewin, LLP where she specializes in litigation, mediation and government relations. She is also the President and General Counsel of the Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human Rights Under Law, a non-profit organization established to advance the civil and human rights of the Jewish people and promote justice for all. The Brandeis Center conducts research, education and advocacy to combat the resurgence of anti-Semitism on college and university campuses.

    Ms. Lewin has represented numerous high-profile clients. Her work includes criminal defense, civil litigation, anti-discrimination, security clearance and Foreign Agent Registration Act (FARA) matters. In 2014, Lewin argued Zivotofsky v. Kerry (the “Jerusalem Passport” case) before the U.S. Supreme Court, a case involving the constitutionality of a law granting any American citizen born in Jerusalem the right to list “Israel” as the place of birth on his/her U.S. passport. Ms. Lewin was involved in the 12-year pro-bono litigation conducted by her firm in the District of Columbia courts and in the Supreme Court of the United States.

    Ms. Lewin, together with her father Nathan Lewin, also successfully represented the Boim family in its landmark civil tort litigation which established the right of American victims of terror to obtain damages under American law against organizations that knowingly provide financial support to international terrorist groups. Boim v. Holy Land Foundation for Relief, 549 F.3d 685 (7th Cir. 2008).

    https://www.adl.org/alyza_lewin
     
    , @SimpleSong
    The 'Historical American Population' is probably best thought of as British-Germanic, well mixed. For example there were a number of German craftsmen in the Jamestown settlement, and obviously Pennsylvania Colony was extremely Germanic; many of those people's descendants ended up in the Upper Midwest.

    Although at the time, of course, 'Germany' did not exist as a political entity, there was the Holy Roman Empire, with lots of little German-speaking statelets, which were the source of many of these colonists.
  87. Anonymous[706] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    I kind of feel for Amy Wax. They are going to destroy her.

    She is a really impressive woman. She is a law professor, which does not have the prestige it might have because of the large numbers of black Harvard Law graduates working in the profession who washed out of the practice of law after a couple of years and got hired as diversity hires. Amy graduated from Harvard Medical School with an M.D., went right into Harvard Law but then did a residency in neurology, and got her J.D. from Columbia, editing the law review, clerked at the district court of appeals level, entered the Justice Department and argued more than a dozen Supreme Court cases. She can hold her own in an argument even while coming across as your beloved grandmother. And she is definitely a "noticer."

    Rosie Gray is a fellow Jew, but less accomplished. She has a publishing contract to write a takedown of right-wing internet media, so she sees everything through that filter. So her non-P.C. predecessors must die.

    The littering thing probably does seem similar to racist "dirty [fill in victim group]" "tropes." The victim group could be Jews, of course. Or rural white Southerners. But hey.

    Nicholas Wade's book kind of stepped in this area, which is partly why he enraged people. Social characteristics are partially genetic (as is everything, Turkheimer's First Law of Behavioral Genetics). Wade did however think that the genetic "hint" was weak and could be easily outweighed by cultural pressure.

    Cultural behavioral characteristics are very important, and although they seem tiny looked at individually, they add up to a completely different experience. I live in Japan, and the sum total is a very clean and safe environment (there is literally no place I wouldn't walk at 2:00 a.m., although I wouldn't say the same for a woman). But there are annoying things, like trash burning by oldsters -- I was Trash Tommy when I called the fire department on my neighbors for that, who were lectured on the law and changed their ways, but gave me the side-eye for a year or two after. But I have come to feel a bit guilty about it. I now feel that I am here to assimilate, not bring "superior" U.S. culture.

    ::::::::::

    Somewhat on topic is the Santa Monica Place Nike incident from yesterday. A black father and a mother (not sure of her race) and their light-skinned toddler visited a Nike store. An employee followed them out and asked to see a receipt for the miniature basketball he had in his hands. They said they paid for it, so they didn't need to show a receipt, although they had one. The store called the cops over, and the parents eventually, after recording a sufficiently long video, returned the ball.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-family-says-they-were-racially-profiled-nike-store-accused-n1031166

    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/07/18/nike-store-santa-monica-basketball-black-family-white-manager/

    Pet peeve: What actually happened, minute by minute, and why doesn't the media figure that out and report it? This is my guess:

    1. Family roams through Nike store.

    2 Kid carries ball around in Nike store, perhaps is noticed by staff.

    3. Parents decides to buy ball for kid.

    4. Ball is rung up and put in a bag. [My supposition as a prior Nike store customer.]

    5. Parent removes ball from bag inside store and gives ball to kid. [Ditto.}

    6. Employee notices unbagged ball and asks to see receipt.

    7. Father says (a) No, because I'm telling you I paid for it, and (b) store clerks are always following me in stores.

    8. Store clerk cannot rely on father's claim to have paid since anyone could say that, and store clerk doesn't really care about his perceived treatment in other stores since that has nothing to do with anything here.

    9. Cops come over (they are stationed in the mall) and parents yell down any attempt to discuss the matter, or at least parents edit down the video to make it seem so.

    10. Eventually, in edit-room-floor section, parents show receipt and demand refund, which they get.

    The side of the aggrieved blacks: We are followed around in stores, so we say and so we perceive, therefore as reparations we should be treated with different standards and our screamed word should be equivalent to showing a receipt. Also, we should be allow to unbag goods inside stores and then walk out and not be challenged. Also, if we want to set up a barbecue inside the store, that also should be allowed.

    The store's side: Shoplifting is a problem. To combat that we bag paid items with a receipt. Customers should not remove merchandise from bags within the store, and at any rate should show their receipt if a requested. You're always welcome to pass your opinions on to the store management.

    Thinking the story through like this is the job of any media that reports on it. Then they can either ask questions and report on responses, or if the video poster is not cooperative, pose the questions and note that they remain unanswered.

    Two interesting things to note about the coverage:

    -- Nike gave a pro forma apology, but also said, "we are currently investigating the facts." How completely racist to think that there are facts that are not contained in a viral video! And, is there store survellance video, inside and out? Why isn't the media asking about that?

    -- The local CBS coverage show a hint of the narrative fraying in their report: "Stallworth and Dickerson are heard on the video insisting that they purchased the ball ... At one point, one of them is heard referring to the manager as 'stupid' and apparently calling one of the officers 'dumbass.'"

    Considering Nike’s demographic marketing this could be mostly solved by easily implemented tech, e.g. once the item is paid for its anti-shrink identifier is turned off or otherwise disabled. It is puzzling that Nike of all retailers trusts its favored countercultural ethnic mascots not to engage in countercultural behavior such as shoplifting. Does Phil Knight believe his own woke B.S.?

  88. @eah
    OT

    This is the same guy who signed an anti-BDS law requiring government contractors not support any kind of BDS activity in any way.

    https://twitter.com/GregAbbott_TX/status/1152013402102878208

    Over thinking. Lib tribe hates Chik ful a because it’s Christian and Israel because it’s nationalist and White.

    So f the libs. Simple as that.

  89. @vinteuil
    ...and Western European countries can be almost as bad. E.g.: I love Napoli just this side of idolatry, but, my God, the trash on the streets really is a problem.

    First thing I noticed about Italy: very trashy. Some places looked like Mexico. I’m starting to get suspicious.

  90. @SFG
    Oh, I don't know. The neocons probably did help put the Goldwater movement over the top but 30 years later we got the Iraq War.

    Honestly I'm not influential enough to do much either way but I would not be so sanguine. It's entirely possible they can water down the racial part *just* enough to attract Latinos and Asians who want to assimilate and build a majority going forward after Trump that restores the country to something approximating what it used to be. It's also possible they get obsessed with Jewish antisemitism obsessions (and you know these as well as I do) and virtue-signalling to show they're not real racists and the whole thing collapses into a think-tank with five people somewhere in DC. The challenge is always to build a movement that has enough brains to attract think-tank people to staff your administration and enough passion and popular appeal to get people to vote for it.

    I'd bet on failure, but then again I didn't think Trump would win either.

    READ Fire and Fury, by Michael Wolff. Trump didn’t think he would win, either, and neither did his family. They thought the election would be good for business. The book gives a lot of credit to Steve Bannon for the win, since he adopted the Sailer Strategy Of energizing working-class whites.

    Trump has delivered for Israel (embassy), and delivered for plutocrats (2017 tax cut that went mostly into stock buybacks for the globalist elite at the top of corporations), and I think things have marginally improved, employment-wise for the WWC (frankly, the entire working class). But he hasn’t delivered for his base like he has for his donors, and he is vulnerable there. If the Democrats could contemplate being nice to the WWC, they’d win hands down.

  91. @PhysicistDave
    A few days ago, a friend who self-identifies as a far Leftist and who lives in San Francisco volunteered to me that she was disgusted by the filth on the streets and sidewalks of San Francisco: she correctly attributed it to homeless people.

    She went on, of course, to add that she did not blame the homeless people themselves for being homeless (I don't either -- there are larger driving problems here, ranging from housing restrictions to how we deal with mentally disturbed people and drug abusers).

    But, I think the destruction of public spaces in California's once beautiful cities is starting to become salient. A lot of things have gone wrong, and reality is starting to trump ideology.

    What is the solution then to mental illness and drug abuse leading to homelessness? Apart from locking these people away, which now won’t be tolerated, how has any society dealt with this successfully ?

    • Replies: @68W58
    Dr. Drew Pinsky talks a lot about this problem on his podcast with Adam Carolla and he favors expanded conservatorship. Give someone who cares about that person (if someone can be found) the legal means to take action. There are probably issues with that approach as well, but what we are doing right now obviously isn’t working and I can’t see how a bureaucratic approach could be as effective as giving loved ones a chance to help.
  92. ‘…As a result today we have an immigration policy driven by fear.”’

    I could be said to have a ‘fear’ of a lot of things. I have a ‘fear’ of what would happen if I poured concrete mix down the sewer takeout. I have a ‘fear’ of how I would enjoy the day if I wore heavy woolen underwear in August.

    So yeah. I could be said to have a ‘fear’ of the probable certain effects of permitting immigration to continue.

  93. @Jesse
    This answers a few questions I've been having about the left's attitude towards litter. They are, I kid you not, now claiming that anti littering initiatives are playing into the neoliberal model by, uh, just read it, okay?


    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jun/14/the-mindfulness-conspiracy-capitalist-spirituality

    In the 1950s, the “Keep America Beautiful” campaign urged individuals to pick up their trash. The project was bankrolled by corporations such as Coca-Cola, Anheuser-Busch and Phillip Morris, in partnership with the public service announcement Ad Council, which coined the term “litterbug” to shame miscreants. Two decades later, a famous TV ad featured a Native American man weeping at the sight of a motorist dumping garbage. “People Start Pollution. People Can Stop It,” was the slogan...

    ...At face value, these efforts seem benevolent, but they obscure the real problem, which is the role that corporate polluters play in the plastic problem. This clever misdirection has led journalist and author Heather Rogers to describe Keep America Beautiful as the first corporate greenwashing front, as it has helped shift the public focus to consumer recycling behaviour and thwarted legislation that would increase extended producer responsibility for waste management.
     
    In an environment where people are more and more open to center left economic policies, I am genuinely convinced that Big Business and Government are at the very least deeply grateful to the contemporary left, and possibly bankrolling it. If you can convince people that economic redistribution means destroying society and any sense of taking responsibility for yourself, then that's playing into the globalists' hands.

    Speaking of, there's a new Democratic crusade on school lunch debt. Apparently, it's a civil rights violation to expect parents to either make their kids a sandwich for school, or actually pay for a meal in the cafeteria. And the "shaming" - not even refusing to feed the kids, just giving them a sandwich and some fruit - is up there with lynching. I'm on the center left, and this is actually happening, and it's repugnant.

    https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2019/06/ilhan-omar-school-lunch-debt-shaming-bill.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/07/20/school-district-parents-pay-your-lunch-debt-or-your-kids-might-wind-up-foster-care/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.23274f462802

    https://civileats.com/2019/05/21/can-we-stop-kids-from-being-shamed-over-school-lunch-debt/

    Some districts are now saying that they'll take kids into foster care if the parents don't pay, and the usual suspects are outraged (the Washington Post, naturally, is ON this), but it's perfectly reasonable. I'm normally very sympathetic to people who can't afford [X], but if you're genuinely so out of it you can't slap two slices of bread around some filling the put it in a bag or container, and you decide to cheat the school instead, you have no business having kids. Get it together.

    While I’m sympathetic to those who play by the rules,

    Some districts are now saying that they’ll take kids into foster care if the parents don’t pay,

    strikes me as an enormous overreaction. I have to assume this is an idle threat intended to shame the parents, since shaming the kids doesn’t really work. But I could be wrong….

    • Replies: @Jesse
    Not really. If you've stated that you can't and/or won't feed your damn kids (and a lot of the people are saying that school lunches are the only hot meals these kids get) then child services has to at least take a look.

    Frankly, I'm more outraged at the idea that it's normal to be too out of it to make a sandwich (or, with older kids, buy the ingredients and tell them to get on with it.)

    And I'm absolutely fuming at the attempt to normalize being broke to that extent. If there are really are tens of millions of kids with parents who genuinely can't feed them, that's a cause for a complete realignment of the social and political orders. But that would mean going after shibboleths like open borders, and we can't have that, can we?
  94. @Anon
    I kind of feel for Amy Wax. They are going to destroy her.

    She is a really impressive woman. She is a law professor, which does not have the prestige it might have because of the large numbers of black Harvard Law graduates working in the profession who washed out of the practice of law after a couple of years and got hired as diversity hires. Amy graduated from Harvard Medical School with an M.D., went right into Harvard Law but then did a residency in neurology, and got her J.D. from Columbia, editing the law review, clerked at the district court of appeals level, entered the Justice Department and argued more than a dozen Supreme Court cases. She can hold her own in an argument even while coming across as your beloved grandmother. And she is definitely a "noticer."

    Rosie Gray is a fellow Jew, but less accomplished. She has a publishing contract to write a takedown of right-wing internet media, so she sees everything through that filter. So her non-P.C. predecessors must die.

    The littering thing probably does seem similar to racist "dirty [fill in victim group]" "tropes." The victim group could be Jews, of course. Or rural white Southerners. But hey.

    Nicholas Wade's book kind of stepped in this area, which is partly why he enraged people. Social characteristics are partially genetic (as is everything, Turkheimer's First Law of Behavioral Genetics). Wade did however think that the genetic "hint" was weak and could be easily outweighed by cultural pressure.

    Cultural behavioral characteristics are very important, and although they seem tiny looked at individually, they add up to a completely different experience. I live in Japan, and the sum total is a very clean and safe environment (there is literally no place I wouldn't walk at 2:00 a.m., although I wouldn't say the same for a woman). But there are annoying things, like trash burning by oldsters -- I was Trash Tommy when I called the fire department on my neighbors for that, who were lectured on the law and changed their ways, but gave me the side-eye for a year or two after. But I have come to feel a bit guilty about it. I now feel that I am here to assimilate, not bring "superior" U.S. culture.

    ::::::::::

    Somewhat on topic is the Santa Monica Place Nike incident from yesterday. A black father and a mother (not sure of her race) and their light-skinned toddler visited a Nike store. An employee followed them out and asked to see a receipt for the miniature basketball he had in his hands. They said they paid for it, so they didn't need to show a receipt, although they had one. The store called the cops over, and the parents eventually, after recording a sufficiently long video, returned the ball.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-family-says-they-were-racially-profiled-nike-store-accused-n1031166

    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/07/18/nike-store-santa-monica-basketball-black-family-white-manager/

    Pet peeve: What actually happened, minute by minute, and why doesn't the media figure that out and report it? This is my guess:

    1. Family roams through Nike store.

    2 Kid carries ball around in Nike store, perhaps is noticed by staff.

    3. Parents decides to buy ball for kid.

    4. Ball is rung up and put in a bag. [My supposition as a prior Nike store customer.]

    5. Parent removes ball from bag inside store and gives ball to kid. [Ditto.}

    6. Employee notices unbagged ball and asks to see receipt.

    7. Father says (a) No, because I'm telling you I paid for it, and (b) store clerks are always following me in stores.

    8. Store clerk cannot rely on father's claim to have paid since anyone could say that, and store clerk doesn't really care about his perceived treatment in other stores since that has nothing to do with anything here.

    9. Cops come over (they are stationed in the mall) and parents yell down any attempt to discuss the matter, or at least parents edit down the video to make it seem so.

    10. Eventually, in edit-room-floor section, parents show receipt and demand refund, which they get.

    The side of the aggrieved blacks: We are followed around in stores, so we say and so we perceive, therefore as reparations we should be treated with different standards and our screamed word should be equivalent to showing a receipt. Also, we should be allow to unbag goods inside stores and then walk out and not be challenged. Also, if we want to set up a barbecue inside the store, that also should be allowed.

    The store's side: Shoplifting is a problem. To combat that we bag paid items with a receipt. Customers should not remove merchandise from bags within the store, and at any rate should show their receipt if a requested. You're always welcome to pass your opinions on to the store management.

    Thinking the story through like this is the job of any media that reports on it. Then they can either ask questions and report on responses, or if the video poster is not cooperative, pose the questions and note that they remain unanswered.

    Two interesting things to note about the coverage:

    -- Nike gave a pro forma apology, but also said, "we are currently investigating the facts." How completely racist to think that there are facts that are not contained in a viral video! And, is there store survellance video, inside and out? Why isn't the media asking about that?

    -- The local CBS coverage show a hint of the narrative fraying in their report: "Stallworth and Dickerson are heard on the video insisting that they purchased the ball ... At one point, one of them is heard referring to the manager as 'stupid' and apparently calling one of the officers 'dumbass.'"

    I live in Japan… I was Trash Tommy when I called the fire department on my neighbors for that, who were lectured on the law

    I hate gaijin like that.

    and changed their ways, but gave me the side-eye for a year or two after.

    Don’t be surprised if it’s not over.

    But I have come to feel a bit guilty about it. I now feel that I am here to assimilate, not bring “superior” U.S. culture.

    You know, you don’t have to choose between those two perspectives. US culture is superior in many ways, but that doesn’t mean you have to bring it. Also, you can live here without assimilating. (In fact, you can’t really assimilate, and if you try you’re going to be disappointed.)

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    (In fact, you can’t really assimilate,
     
    Why can't he assimilate?

    and if you try you’re going to be disappointed.)
     
    Why would assimilation be disappointing?
  95. excuse me you racists, Latino people are in fact far more environmentally conscious than white people.

    Didn’t you bigots see that episode of mad me where your beautiful 60s white people brazenly littered in the park.

    SMH believing your own myths instead of the true world shown on television.

  96. @IHTG
    If so, it's a gatekeeper operation that you desperately need

    Someone desperately needs it, anyway.

  97. Cleanliness being next to godliness is a concept that eludes a lot of third world countries. You can see this when you travel, or watch videos by travel vloggers. No country can ever be considered first world until the people fully embrace this important concept, stop littering, use modern toilets in private as well as public, keep their homes, restaurants, streets, buildings spotless, paying special attention to bathrooms and kitchens, power wash their streets and all concrete surfaces incl. walls, streets, outer stairs to keep them from moss and grime.

    Third worlders too often bring with them third world cultures and habits. It takes decades for most people to assimilate, unless they arrived really young by themselves, go to at least college in the US, and intermarry with whites. Some who were raised by immigrant parents never fully assimilate even though they were born and bred in the US. Speaking fluent English is only part of the assimilation, you also need to adopt the new cultural norms like integrity, self-reliance, neighborliness, cleanliness, punctuality, good manners etc.

    While most third world countries are filthy, no other country or people can tolerate filth and grime like the Indians. These people take filthy living to a whole new level.

    The US would be wise to restrict immigration to only those from the first world. Let third world countries come up to first world standards on their own first, before allowing them to immigrate.

  98. @AnotherDad
    Like Desiderius said "litter sucked".

    If you could have the death penalty for littering--cull the litterers--your nation would improve dramatically.

    Littering is a sign of high time-preference, low conscientiousness, lack of pro-sociality and generally low IQ. People who do not litter are precisely the people who can maintain critical social structures like the rule of law and the productive capability (physical plant and skills) of the nation.

    You see a community or nation where there's trash everywhere and that's what the joint is--a trashy place with trashy people.

    And yes, i'm seeing more litter pretty much every year in the US--super obvious in my middle class PNW neighborhood--as we diversify and community erodes.

    My concern is not with littering. I enjoy a nice clean place.

    Instead, it is about shame utilizing campaigns regarding social control, that are largely a way for elites to scapegoat society for their own sins.

    The SF homesless problem is directly related to policy choices of the local elite. Likewise, the mass immigration problem and its associated litter problem is directly tied to the national oligarchs.

    The Sierra Club used to be anti immigrant until it was bribed by pro immigrant billionaires. As such, those hypocrites really don’t care about the environment or anything else.

    All the climate change hysteria is fraudulent efforts at social control. AOC’s chief of staff admitted the Green New Deal was not designed for climate change, but society transformation. IPCC leaders have occassionally admitted the same.

    Manipulation is manipulation. “Don’t mess with Texas” cleaned litter, but industrial pollution is still largely unchecked. The elites don’t conform to their own social controls.

  99. @Percy Gryce
    Interesting to compare this review of her book from 10 years ago:

    https://newrepublic.com/article/76403/what-hope

    To this blog post from this week:

    https://abovethelaw.com/2019/07/t14-law-professor-goes-to-white-nationalism-conference-and-says-white-nationalist-things-and-still-somehow-has-a-job-amy-wax/?rf=1#reff1

    Amy Wax is yet another example of a Jew inside of the establishment being allowed to say things that would get any gentile fired and unpersoned. The strategy here is to allow a certain amount of non-PC material inside of movement conservatism so that white goy conservatives don’t go looking to white nationalists for this kind of material. Of course, the only way to be sure the people providing this material don’t go too far and actually advocate white nationalism is to only let neocon Jews do it.

    • Replies: @Donald
    She has tenure. Penn can only fire her if they write a large check.
  100. As Steve Martin said, always keep a garbage bag in your car . . . if it gets too full, you can always toss it out the window.

  101. @vinteuil
    It's not just Latinos.

    Try visiting, say, Turkey, or Nepal. There's trash, & shit, all over the place, all the time. It's the first thing you'll notice when you get there.

    “Try visiting, say, Turkey, or Nepal. ”

    I’d really rather not. Maybe after the Greek/Armenian reconquest I will visit Anatolia.

    • Agree: Ibound1
    • Replies: @vinteuil
    As things stand, now, I'd also hesitate to revisit Turkey. Which is a pity, because, despite it all, the Roman ruins there rival anything in Italy, and the Greek ruins rival anything in Greece.
  102. @istevefan

    “Pointing out the obvious reality of Latino Littering tends to drive liberals insane with rage. Why?”
     
    I had a somewhat related experience at dinner two nights ago when the drinks were served with paper straws. Folks at the table were giving praise to the restaurant for its contribution to the environment. I mentioned the Pacific plastic patch, and the ten rivers that account for 90 percent of the world's plastic waste.

    Needless to say that did not go down well and the subject was quickly changed.

    “paper straws“

    Every soggy cardboard-flavored sip brings a little dopamine hit of smugness!

  103. As woman of color-representative AOC recently demonstrated, people of color litter because they have no access to garbage disposal devices. The persistent and systematic Red Lining is the root cause of littering, as it has made it nearly impossible for families of color to accumulate the inter-generational wealth needed for these in sink disposal devices.

  104. @vinteuil
    ...and Western European countries can be almost as bad. E.g.: I love Napoli just this side of idolatry, but, my God, the trash on the streets really is a problem.

    Davvero! Naples will always be my happy place . . . and I lived in Tuscany, too. To be in Napoli, and to embrace it, is to be truly alive.

    • Replies: @vinteuil

    To be in Napoli, and to embrace it, is to be truly alive.
     
    No kidding. How does that go in Italian - Non è la verità?

    Despite everything - the filth, the corruption, the Camorra - there's nothing else like it on God's green Earth.
  105. @ATBOTL
    Amy Wax is yet another example of a Jew inside of the establishment being allowed to say things that would get any gentile fired and unpersoned. The strategy here is to allow a certain amount of non-PC material inside of movement conservatism so that white goy conservatives don't go looking to white nationalists for this kind of material. Of course, the only way to be sure the people providing this material don't go too far and actually advocate white nationalism is to only let neocon Jews do it.

    She has tenure. Penn can only fire her if they write a large check.

    • Replies: @ATBOTL
    S0 did Ricardo Duchesne. He was forced out anyway. My point stands. Why was Wax invited to this conference but Brimlow was not? There is a pattern of Jews like Jon Entine and Steven Pinker being the only people allowed to say non-PC things in the media and nothing ever happens to them. This is a pressure valve strategy as well as false flag strategy by the elites.
  106. Anonymous[131] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chrisnonymous

    I live in Japan... I was Trash Tommy when I called the fire department on my neighbors for that, who were lectured on the law
     
    I hate gaijin like that.

    and changed their ways, but gave me the side-eye for a year or two after.
     
    Don't be surprised if it's not over.

    But I have come to feel a bit guilty about it. I now feel that I am here to assimilate, not bring “superior” U.S. culture.
     
    You know, you don't have to choose between those two perspectives. US culture is superior in many ways, but that doesn't mean you have to bring it. Also, you can live here without assimilating. (In fact, you can't really assimilate, and if you try you're going to be disappointed.)

    (In fact, you can’t really assimilate,

    Why can’t he assimilate?

    and if you try you’re going to be disappointed.)

    Why would assimilation be disappointing?

    • Replies: @Jesse
    Because the Japanese, for better or for worse, won't accept him. They are aaaaallll about the racial purity.

    They have an ethnically Korean minority, often at least four generations deep, which they can't tell the difference between, physically or culturally. They still won't accept them. Outside of the more risqué parts of the society, they don't want them marrying into their families. Hell, they don't even like people with one not entirely Japanese parent.

    My old boss used to go there every year for martial arts training. He spoke the language and followed the customs. Japanese people wouldn't want him sitting next to them on public transport.

    Now, that might work for the Japanese. They can obviously run their own culture as they see fit. But, even if it was possible, would he really want to assimilate into that culture? It's obviously not intended for people like him.

  107. @PhysicistDave
    Jesse wrote:

    But. on a group level, they have the same kind of problems white Americans had before the 1950s.
     
    Young people may not be aware that in the late '50s, we routinely tossed any sort of trash out of the car window: from gum wrappers and fast-food trash to diapers. Why worry?

    Then, people started to notice that we were fouling our own nest, and this became socially and culturally unacceptable.

    Culture can change. But, it often takes a conscious effort and a sense of common belonging.

    Well, it’s a big place with a lot of ethnic groups and habits, I guess. But our experience is entirely to the contrary.

    My parents, grandparents and great grandparents — the earliest of the three generations being born in Italy, Germany, and Eastern Europe before coming here to the USA — NEVER littered on the street or anywhere else, and would be ashamed to do so. (Relying on what grandparents and parents have said about their memories and what they were taught, including my mother who just scoffed when I said people were claiming that Americans threw trash out the car window back then.) I know that any of my grandparents would be disgusted and disappointed if I were found throwing trash on the ground “like a savage”, they might say.

    They were especially conscious of proving that they were civilized people, showing it to the Protestant / British majority who was here first. Never be heard speaking something besides English, always work no matter how bad the job, go to church, take care of your children, and fight for the country. That’s what they taught and did, poor as they were. I love them. I am so proud of them all. Throwing trash would be a disgrace to our family and to our people. They swept their freaking sidewalks in the middle of ny city and other then-white but crowded places in northeastern NJ, then Long Island etc.

    I have never even known or heard of any white American thinking it to be normal or acceptable to throw trash in the streets half a century ago or (reportedly) a century ago.

    The only acceptable time to throw something not in the garbage was, and is, to toss a small, readily biodegradable food item into a field or woods, like when you are walking in outer suburbs or the country and finish eating a piece of fruit. That’s it.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    Yeah that's my experience and memories as well. I think we were a bit insouciant about the "biodegradables" but littering in general was a big no-no. I remember watching propaganda films about it in the 70's in grade school.

    I think what really helped was the decline in smoking. Used to be that people would drop cigarette butts wherever and that would make the ground look messy to begin with. This is Europe's problem now: their streets are like ashtrays and if you drop something into an ashtray, well, so what.
    , @PhysicistDave
    RadicalCenter wrote to me:

    I know that any of my grandparents would be disgusted and disappointed if I were found throwing trash on the ground “like a savage”, they might say.

    They were especially conscious of proving that they were civilized people, showing it to the Protestant / British majority who was here first.
     
    Well... I grew up in a middle-class, suburban family in the Midwest -- old-stock Anglo-Saxon on Dad's side and nineteenth-century Irsih/German immigrants on Mom's side.

    Maybe you are just younger than I (and your elders have rose-colored glasses). StillCaRealist mentions the early '70s, but I am talking about the late '50s/early '60s. The transformation happened in the '60s and was largely over by the '70s.

    The cultural mores I've described were what led to Lady Bird Johnson's big "Make America Beautiful" campaign. It was a huge thing back in the early '60s, everyone was aware of it, and anyone who does not remember it either did not live in the US at the time or has a fading memory. (See Jesse's post above which alludes to some of this history: it is very well-documented. It happened.)

    Maybe your family were just remarkably good citizens, as you say, "proving that they were civilized people, showing it to the Protestant / British majority who was here first"? My family, and nearly all the middle-class Americans I knew, thought they had nothing to prove, and it took a real effort to convince them not to be, in the term of the times as Jesse notes, a "litterbug."
  108. Anonymous[131] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jesse

    I know Latino/as who are very tidy and clean very well. Quite a few do it professionally.
     
    Great. But. on a group level, they have the same kind of problems white Americans had before the 1950s. Luckily, it's an extremely easy set of problems to solve. But you can't solve what you won't name.

    Janitor and maid are honorable lines of work.
     
    Holy strawman. No one's saying otherwise. But they are dragging down the wages and benefits. And their descendants, as it turns out, aren't particularly interested in cleaning up other peoples' messes, up to and including their often toxic body waste. Certainly not for terrible wages, conditions and benefits that leave them unable to live a normal, reasonably prosperous life.

    And good for them! The US is predicated on a certain level of dignity, both psychological and material. Having people do disgusting yet vital work for increasingly terrible remuneration is appalling, both in general and in how it degrades a specifically American/Western European sense of being a citizen. Those people from the Philippines and India who go to the Gulf to do vital work for slave wages and conditions are good, honorable people, but their conditions are appalling and degrade the wider society. That's not the kind of society any decent human want to create, no matter how much you try to flatter those doing the work.

    Great. But. on a group level, they have the same kind of problems white Americans had before the 1950s. Luckily, it’s an extremely easy set of problems to solve. But you can’t solve what you won’t name.

    If it is true that people can be trained to not litter (as you and Steve claim), then Wax is wrong that we need to base immigration policy on different countries’ littering habits.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Not necessarily; acculturation takes time, and you could make the argument we don't want to import too many people who aren't already at a certain level of not-littering/low time preference/etc.
  109. Anonymous[130] • Disclaimer says:

    no trumps policy will just bring in more indians with fake degrees

  110. I posted this awhile back, but I think its trenchant here.

  111. @Jake
    Your concluding paragraph is excellent; it nails much that central to the worsening horrors.

    What our Elites want is a world like that of the Middle east they know: they are super Elites (like the Jews running Israel and Aran princely families with oil money) and then there are people with a status that makes them nothing begging to be allowed to shovel shit for pennies. And that group has no hope of social mobility. A teeny tine SUPER Elite, with the vast, vast majority of people forced to beg as a permanent condition of life, forced to endure all humiliations, including regular sexual assault, in order to avoid starving to death.

    Not only are our Gentile Elites exactly like our Jewish Elites in that, but the fact is that Brit WASPs figured all that out long before more than a handful of Jews across the globe grasped the big picture.

    I see it as more generic than that, Jake. The elites would like to be living as elites do in ANY 3rd world country, they as the 1 – 2% overlords with the security details and broken glass embedded in the walls, and us the 98% that live on the edge and beg for scraps (they call that “elections”).

    What they can’t handle is having this bothersome middle class that has extra money to form associations, join the government at low levels, and stay infiltrated in the school boards. That won’t do. If it takes replacing Americans one or two million-fold a year, well, it’s a slow tedious process, but that’s what it’s gonna have to be.

  112. I don’t have the cuss-words en mi léxico
    For the litterbug culture of Mexico.
    If Americans copy this
    Mexican sloppiness,
    What core value will be the next to go?

  113. @flyingtiger
    Marking their territory. Like a dog pissing on a tree.

    It’s Black repellent, nothing to steal here.

  114. @stillCARealist
    Present tense, not past. Litter is ubiquitous around my area. Not, I hasten to add, in my immediate neighborhood, as lots of us will pick up anything we can on our walks. But out on the main roads and freeways where people don't walk, the trash is disgusting.

    I used to think it was blacks, since when I worked in black ghetto I saw people throwing stuff around. But there are almost no blacks around here, and there are tons of Mexicans/Central Americans as well as low-class Slavs. But that may not be fair either. Likely it's all the homeless that roam around (although that wouldn't explain the trash on the freeways).

    I had an interesting experience over trash in Marin about ten years ago. At a busy freeway exit, across from the famous Frank Lloyd Wright courthouse, there’s a car wash/gas station, with a low, curved wire fence marking it off from the sidewalk. The fence had accumulated thousands of pieces of trash, doubtless due to the heavy Latino presence in the area. I went into the office and suggested to the proprietor, a Hindu, that it might be a classy thing to clean it all up. A week later, all the trash was gone, and in the decade since, it’s never bounced back to anything like the original disgusting look. Separately, that guy’s a prick. On a day he wasn’t there, the car wash broke down seconds after I paid. His people, and later him, refused to give me a refund.

  115. @PhysicistDave
    Jesse wrote:

    But. on a group level, they have the same kind of problems white Americans had before the 1950s.
     
    Young people may not be aware that in the late '50s, we routinely tossed any sort of trash out of the car window: from gum wrappers and fast-food trash to diapers. Why worry?

    Then, people started to notice that we were fouling our own nest, and this became socially and culturally unacceptable.

    Culture can change. But, it often takes a conscious effort and a sense of common belonging.

    Texas still had a big littering problem back in the 1980s. The most egregious offenders tended to be blue-collar younger men dumping all kinds of stuff from their trucks.

    The solution from the state government was pretty simple and intuitive: en masse cultural messaging about respecting Texan ground from prominent Dallas Cowboys.

    With how far socio-cultural atomization is proceeding in the US, aka, the common belonging part, this is getting trickier to pull off.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Texas's "Don't Mess with Texas" anti-littering campaign was aimed directly at blue collar white and Hispanic young men, with football players, ZZ Top, etc. telling them to defend Texas from litter.

    I haven't been to Texas in a while, but I was told it worked pretty effectively.

  116. @Donald
    She has tenure. Penn can only fire her if they write a large check.

    S0 did Ricardo Duchesne. He was forced out anyway. My point stands. Why was Wax invited to this conference but Brimlow was not? There is a pattern of Jews like Jon Entine and Steven Pinker being the only people allowed to say non-PC things in the media and nothing ever happens to them. This is a pressure valve strategy as well as false flag strategy by the elites.

  117. I posted this last year, but it’s looking like Amy Wax may have had an experience or two very similar.

    “Up here in Fremont California, there was a small park on Alameda Creek in Niles that was used by families for years for picnics and parties. Unfortunately the water that flows down the creek is captured by the local water district for ground recharge via some abandoned quarries, Quarry Lakes.

    The park became a big attraction for the local Muchahchomen and their families. Well the water district took notice and put up signs exhorting the groups to police their trash, and more importantly keep their little babies with their shitty diapers out of the water.

    Long story short, there’s now an 8 foot high chain link fence running a couple hundred feet baring all access the the water from the picnic area.”

  118. @Charles Pewitt

    Z-Man did this conference. His reports on his blog and here at Unz were a hoot. Basically an attempt to set up a new Buckley-style gatekeeper operation before the Trump-inspired yokels start noticing too many things.

     

    I say some dead guy from Harvard named Huntington said the USA was a British Protestant settler nation.

    I say the USA is a European Christian nation because I am a Euro-Mongrel and I want to win the support of German voters in the future.

    This guy is from Indiana and Krauts are crawling the Hell all over Indiana.

    https://twitter.com/MatthewParrott/status/1152370222164303873

    Vox Day did an excellent takedown of this fraud too.

    I recommend everyone just Google the principals. This attempt to rebrand neoconservatism is so clumsy and obvious I almost feel like they’re daring anyone to call it out for what it is to smear them with the anti-semite label. If that meme picture with the happy merchant wearing a normie mask was an actual institution, it would be this.

    https://burke.foundation/people/

    Some choicier excerpts:

    David Brog

    David Brog is the former Executive Director of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), an American pro-Israel Christian organization. He is the author of In Defense of Faith: The Judeo-Christian Idea and the Struggle for Humanity and Standing With Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State. On March 20, 2017 he released his latest book, Reclaiming Israel’s History: Roots, Rights, and the Struggle for Peace.

    Education and career
    Brog graduated from Princeton University with his bachelor’s degree. He then went on to Harvard Law School where he graduated with his JD in 1991. After graduating from Harvard Law School, Brog served as an executive at America Online and practiced corporate law both in Israel and the United States. Afterwards he worked in the United States Senate for seven years, where he eventually became the chief of staff to Senator Arlen Specter and staff director of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He became the Executive Director of Christians United For Israel (CUFI), an American pro-Israel Christian organization in 2006.

    In July 2015, Brog was tapped to head a new group called the Maccabee Task Force, an entity formed by American philanthropists Sheldon Adelson and Haim Saban to combat Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) activities on the college campus level. Brog’s exploits as head of the Maccabee Task Force were featured in a documentary entitled The Israel Lobby in the U.S.

    Personal life
    He is a cousin of former Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Barak, whose original surname was also “Brog” until he Hebraized it to Barak in 1972.

    Books
    Reclaiming Israel’s History: Roots, Rights, and the Struggle for Peace (2017)
    In Defense of Faith: The Judeo-Christian Idea and the Struggle for Humanity (2010)
    Standing With Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State (2006)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brog

    Christopher C. DeMuth (born August 5, 1946) is an American lawyer and a distinguished fellow at the Hudson Institute. He was the president of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a conservative think tank, from 1986 to 2008.

    Presidency of AEI

    DeMuth presided over the institute as a number of high-profile scholars joined AEI, including Charles Murray, Richard and Lynne Cheney, Michael Barone, James K. Glassman, Newt Gingrich, Karl Zinsmeister, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. As many as twenty AEI scholars served in the George W. Bush administration. AEI scholars also influenced the administration. Announcing his departure from AEI in 2007, DeMuth noted that the Iraq surge strategy was devised at AEI.

    Bibliography
    Christopher DeMuth and William Kristol, eds. The Neoconservative Imagination: Essays in Honor of Irving Kristol. Washington: AEI Press, 1995. (ISBN 0844738999)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_DeMuth

    From the Anti-Defamation League, of all places:

    Alyza Lewin
    President & General Counsel, The Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human Rights Under Law

    Alyza D. Lewin is a co-founder and partner in Lewin & Lewin, LLP where she specializes in litigation, mediation and government relations. She is also the President and General Counsel of the Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human Rights Under Law, a non-profit organization established to advance the civil and human rights of the Jewish people and promote justice for all. The Brandeis Center conducts research, education and advocacy to combat the resurgence of anti-Semitism on college and university campuses.

    Ms. Lewin has represented numerous high-profile clients. Her work includes criminal defense, civil litigation, anti-discrimination, security clearance and Foreign Agent Registration Act (FARA) matters. In 2014, Lewin argued Zivotofsky v. Kerry (the “Jerusalem Passport” case) before the U.S. Supreme Court, a case involving the constitutionality of a law granting any American citizen born in Jerusalem the right to list “Israel” as the place of birth on his/her U.S. passport. Ms. Lewin was involved in the 12-year pro-bono litigation conducted by her firm in the District of Columbia courts and in the Supreme Court of the United States.

    Ms. Lewin, together with her father Nathan Lewin, also successfully represented the Boim family in its landmark civil tort litigation which established the right of American victims of terror to obtain damages under American law against organizations that knowingly provide financial support to international terrorist groups. Boim v. Holy Land Foundation for Relief, 549 F.3d 685 (7th Cir. 2008).

    https://www.adl.org/alyza_lewin

    • Replies: @nebulafox
    "Judeo-Christianity" is a nonsensical term that needs to just go away, much like the neocons that are so fond of it.
    , @ATBOTL
    So officials from ADL are behind the neocon2.0 fake nationalist movement. Imagine my shock.

    We need to make the ADL our top target for ridicule online. It's our best best to drive a wedge between whites and neocons. Grassroots conservatives, even the ones who are pro-Israel hate the ADL. Really, really hate it. The ADL is indefensible. Make the neocons and fake nationalists defend it.

    We need to get grassroots conservatives attacking the ADL. Ask people like Amy Wax and Yoram Hazony why there are associating with members of an openly anti-white group. If they have another conference like this, all of our guys who get in should do some kind of protest where they wave anti-ADL signs and disrupt the event and refuse to leave. That would shut these scum down for good.
    , @SFG
    I'm all for a Jewish/white gentile alliance, but if these guys are going to put Israel first (as it seems) it will all fall apart.
  119. They’re worried it’ll create a rift in the Democratic Party. One between Mexicans and Environmentalists. With the coalition of the fringes, it’s easy to start a crown heights affair that’ll cause disunity within the party.

    1) An abortion clinic placed on the same street as a Hispanic Catholic Church.

    2) Native Americans doing traditional whale hunting against the wishes of animal rights activists.

    3) Asians getting screwed over by Black Affirmative Action.

    4) Hispanic Cock fighting that pisses of animal rights activists.

    5) Tech billionaires vs Democratic Socialist tax plans.

    6) Abortion strictly of female (and in the future LBGT) babies.

    7) Anything really that’ll divide white liberals from their minority subjects.

    There’s real opportunities to exploit.

  120. @Kent Nationalist

    For example, it’s considered shocking to say that we should try to get more immigrants from Norway and fewer immigrants from Haiti because Norway is a well-educated welfare state, so immigrants from Norway are likely to pay more taxes and take less in welfare than immigrants from Haiti. Trump’s logic is colorblind, but the result would be more white immigrants and fewer black immigrants, so everybody who is anybody screams that that kind of sensible immigration policy would be racist.

     

    How about we just own the fact that white people can legitimately argue for their own interests instead of doing this gay kabuki?

    How about we just own the fact that white people can legitimately argue for their own interests instead of doing this gay kabuki?

    For that to happen we have to speak for ourselves at events we control. Whites arguing for their own interests can only be done by whites. Whites should boycott the next one of these neocon2.0 conferences and make it clear we will only go to events run by our own people.

  121. @Reg Cæsar

    the famous “Crying Indian” TV commercial in 1971 that racially shamed whites into not littering.
     
    A better one was "Don't Mess With Texas", which turned the good ol' boys around not by shaming them, but by recruiting them. I'd read that highway litter went down by up to 80%.

    Research showed that good ol' boys were indeed a large part of the litter problem. But, imagine, a campaign that treated them with respect? That's revolutionary!

    Steve has said that Mexicans are wannabe Texans, so it's conceivable that the campaign worked for them as well.

    Ah, someone else pointed it out before me. To the best of my knowledge, it did. Mexicans have been around in large numbers in Texas for a long time (some Tejanos have ancestors that were there before the Germans and Czechs came), unlike a lot of other states, and it’s not like blue-collar young Mexican-American men differed much in their roadside littering habits from their white-or black-counterparts in the 1980s.

    Again: mix people who the guys would respect with the campaign telling them they *should* take action and practically work to defend something they respected-their state-rather than hectoring them and telling them they *needed* to do something for vaguely sentimental ideological reasons. Success. It’s not that hard to figure out, really, but it does require treating them with respect, which certain people in today’s politics seem to believe is beneath their dignity. I mean, they are the aspiring Guardians with fancy degrees. Shouldn’t the peons be bending over to please them?

  122. Chinese LEGAL IMMIGRANTS littering right on top of the very endangered Piping Plover’s habitat in Target Rock National Wildlife Refuge….which is right in back of Sean Hannity’s Castle in Llyod Neck…just walk up the bluff and you are in Sean Hannity’s back yard….The discarded juice cartons are in mandarin….

  123. @Thomas
    Vox Day did an excellent takedown of this fraud too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpIAc9by5iU

    I recommend everyone just Google the principals. This attempt to rebrand neoconservatism is so clumsy and obvious I almost feel like they're daring anyone to call it out for what it is to smear them with the anti-semite label. If that meme picture with the happy merchant wearing a normie mask was an actual institution, it would be this.

    https://burke.foundation/people/

    Some choicier excerpts:

    David Brog

    David Brog is the former Executive Director of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), an American pro-Israel Christian organization. He is the author of In Defense of Faith: The Judeo-Christian Idea and the Struggle for Humanity and Standing With Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State. On March 20, 2017 he released his latest book, Reclaiming Israel’s History: Roots, Rights, and the Struggle for Peace.

    Education and career
    Brog graduated from Princeton University with his bachelor's degree. He then went on to Harvard Law School where he graduated with his JD in 1991. After graduating from Harvard Law School, Brog served as an executive at America Online and practiced corporate law both in Israel and the United States. Afterwards he worked in the United States Senate for seven years, where he eventually became the chief of staff to Senator Arlen Specter and staff director of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He became the Executive Director of Christians United For Israel (CUFI), an American pro-Israel Christian organization in 2006.

    In July 2015, Brog was tapped to head a new group called the Maccabee Task Force, an entity formed by American philanthropists Sheldon Adelson and Haim Saban to combat Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) activities on the college campus level. Brog's exploits as head of the Maccabee Task Force were featured in a documentary entitled The Israel Lobby in the U.S.

    Personal life
    He is a cousin of former Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Barak, whose original surname was also "Brog" until he Hebraized it to Barak in 1972.

    Books
    Reclaiming Israel’s History: Roots, Rights, and the Struggle for Peace (2017)
    In Defense of Faith: The Judeo-Christian Idea and the Struggle for Humanity (2010)
    Standing With Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State (2006)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brog
     

    Christopher C. DeMuth (born August 5, 1946) is an American lawyer and a distinguished fellow at the Hudson Institute. He was the president of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a conservative think tank, from 1986 to 2008.
    ...
    Presidency of AEI
    ...
    DeMuth presided over the institute as a number of high-profile scholars joined AEI, including Charles Murray, Richard and Lynne Cheney, Michael Barone, James K. Glassman, Newt Gingrich, Karl Zinsmeister, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. As many as twenty AEI scholars served in the George W. Bush administration. AEI scholars also influenced the administration. Announcing his departure from AEI in 2007, DeMuth noted that the Iraq surge strategy was devised at AEI.
    ...
    Bibliography
    Christopher DeMuth and William Kristol, eds. The Neoconservative Imagination: Essays in Honor of Irving Kristol. Washington: AEI Press, 1995. (ISBN 0844738999)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_DeMuth
     
    From the Anti-Defamation League, of all places:

    Alyza Lewin
    President & General Counsel, The Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human Rights Under Law

    Alyza D. Lewin is a co-founder and partner in Lewin & Lewin, LLP where she specializes in litigation, mediation and government relations. She is also the President and General Counsel of the Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human Rights Under Law, a non-profit organization established to advance the civil and human rights of the Jewish people and promote justice for all. The Brandeis Center conducts research, education and advocacy to combat the resurgence of anti-Semitism on college and university campuses.

    Ms. Lewin has represented numerous high-profile clients. Her work includes criminal defense, civil litigation, anti-discrimination, security clearance and Foreign Agent Registration Act (FARA) matters. In 2014, Lewin argued Zivotofsky v. Kerry (the “Jerusalem Passport” case) before the U.S. Supreme Court, a case involving the constitutionality of a law granting any American citizen born in Jerusalem the right to list “Israel” as the place of birth on his/her U.S. passport. Ms. Lewin was involved in the 12-year pro-bono litigation conducted by her firm in the District of Columbia courts and in the Supreme Court of the United States.

    Ms. Lewin, together with her father Nathan Lewin, also successfully represented the Boim family in its landmark civil tort litigation which established the right of American victims of terror to obtain damages under American law against organizations that knowingly provide financial support to international terrorist groups. Boim v. Holy Land Foundation for Relief, 549 F.3d 685 (7th Cir. 2008).

    https://www.adl.org/alyza_lewin
     

    “Judeo-Christianity” is a nonsensical term that needs to just go away, much like the neocons that are so fond of it.

    • Replies: @Thomas

    “Judeo-Christianity” is a nonsensical term that needs to just go away, much like the neocons that are so fond of it.
     
    Paraphrasing something I saw on Twitter, I like to say that "there is no "Judeo-Christianity" any more than there is "Islamo-Christianity" or "Hindu-Christianity" or "Voodoo-Christianity.""

    Funny but I've known a few very religious Jews who bristle at the term too and are ready to point out how radically dissimilar Judaism and Christianity are.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    “Judeo-Christianity” is a nonsensical term that needs to just go away, much like the neocons that are so fond of it.
     
    It has two different meanings with two different purposes. One is to unite today's Christians with today's Jews. The other is to unite today's Christians with yesterday's Jews.

    The latter has the advantage of turning a 2000-year-old tradition into a 6000-year-old one. The last 2000 years are the "new, improved" version. No human sacrifice, and no goat sacrifice either.

    Why wouldn't someone choose Christianity, when the alternatives are amoral materialism and cartoon paganism?
  124. @syonredux

    A better one was “Don’t Mess With Texas”, which turned the good ol’ boys around not by shaming them, but by recruiting them. I’d read that highway litter went down by up to 80%.

    Research showed that good ol’ boys were indeed a large part of the litter problem. But, imagine, a campaign that treated them with respect? That’s revolutionary!

    Steve has said that Mexicans are wannabe Texans, so it’s conceivable that the campaign worked for them as well.
     
    Respect wasn't all of it, though. The "Don't Mess With Texas" campaign also relied on the fact that Texas good ol' boys love their state and want to protect it. Latinx don't love Anglo-America, and they certainly don't want to protect her....

    https://pics.me.me/no-means-no-mybordersmychoice-mybordersmychoice-32597816.png

    The rape analogy is an excellent one that is spot on and people intuitively grasp.

    Open Borders–you don’t have the right to say “no” to people coming in–is the ideology of the rapist.

    We need conservatives who are actually willing to say that–to fight. The left has all the vast propaganda organs–Hollyweird, establishment news media, academia, schools, mainline churchs–cranking 24-7-365. But on immigration their propaganda is so obviously stupid … it’s easy to thrash if conservatives/nationalists actually challenge it:

    Americans have the absolutely right to say “no” to foreigners trying to enter their nation–just like a woman has the right to say “no” to unwanted sex and we all have the right to say “no” to someone trying to enter our homes. The Democrats’, the left’s Open Borders ideology–the idea you don’t have the right to say “no”–is the ideology of the rapist. Patriotic Americans reject it. We Americans have the right to say “no” to foreigners trying to push in–and “no means no”.

    • Disagree: Diversity is Great!
  125. @nebulafox
    "Judeo-Christianity" is a nonsensical term that needs to just go away, much like the neocons that are so fond of it.

    “Judeo-Christianity” is a nonsensical term that needs to just go away, much like the neocons that are so fond of it.

    Paraphrasing something I saw on Twitter, I like to say that “there is no “Judeo-Christianity” any more than there is “Islamo-Christianity” or “Hindu-Christianity” or “Voodoo-Christianity.””

    Funny but I’ve known a few very religious Jews who bristle at the term too and are ready to point out how radically dissimilar Judaism and Christianity are.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Christianity actually did inherit quite a bit from Judaism, but the term came out of a desire to be ecumenical back in the 50s that no longer really applies; the groups on the left that used it either include other faiths or are hostile to religion altogether, and on the non-dissident right it's more about preserving Christianity from LGBTQ, etc. from what I can see.
  126. jb says:

    Favoring Norwegian immigrants over Haitians just because because Norway is prosperous and orderly while Haiti is poor and disorganized shows a shocking lack of compassion! It’s almost as bad as hiring workers who are well educated and well behaved instead of workers who are ignorant and impoverished, just because they’ll do a better job. What employer would deny jobs to those who have the most to gain? Who would ever do a terrible thing like that?

  127. @Thomas
    Vox Day did an excellent takedown of this fraud too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpIAc9by5iU

    I recommend everyone just Google the principals. This attempt to rebrand neoconservatism is so clumsy and obvious I almost feel like they're daring anyone to call it out for what it is to smear them with the anti-semite label. If that meme picture with the happy merchant wearing a normie mask was an actual institution, it would be this.

    https://burke.foundation/people/

    Some choicier excerpts:

    David Brog

    David Brog is the former Executive Director of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), an American pro-Israel Christian organization. He is the author of In Defense of Faith: The Judeo-Christian Idea and the Struggle for Humanity and Standing With Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State. On March 20, 2017 he released his latest book, Reclaiming Israel’s History: Roots, Rights, and the Struggle for Peace.

    Education and career
    Brog graduated from Princeton University with his bachelor's degree. He then went on to Harvard Law School where he graduated with his JD in 1991. After graduating from Harvard Law School, Brog served as an executive at America Online and practiced corporate law both in Israel and the United States. Afterwards he worked in the United States Senate for seven years, where he eventually became the chief of staff to Senator Arlen Specter and staff director of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He became the Executive Director of Christians United For Israel (CUFI), an American pro-Israel Christian organization in 2006.

    In July 2015, Brog was tapped to head a new group called the Maccabee Task Force, an entity formed by American philanthropists Sheldon Adelson and Haim Saban to combat Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) activities on the college campus level. Brog's exploits as head of the Maccabee Task Force were featured in a documentary entitled The Israel Lobby in the U.S.

    Personal life
    He is a cousin of former Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Barak, whose original surname was also "Brog" until he Hebraized it to Barak in 1972.

    Books
    Reclaiming Israel’s History: Roots, Rights, and the Struggle for Peace (2017)
    In Defense of Faith: The Judeo-Christian Idea and the Struggle for Humanity (2010)
    Standing With Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State (2006)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brog
     

    Christopher C. DeMuth (born August 5, 1946) is an American lawyer and a distinguished fellow at the Hudson Institute. He was the president of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a conservative think tank, from 1986 to 2008.
    ...
    Presidency of AEI
    ...
    DeMuth presided over the institute as a number of high-profile scholars joined AEI, including Charles Murray, Richard and Lynne Cheney, Michael Barone, James K. Glassman, Newt Gingrich, Karl Zinsmeister, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. As many as twenty AEI scholars served in the George W. Bush administration. AEI scholars also influenced the administration. Announcing his departure from AEI in 2007, DeMuth noted that the Iraq surge strategy was devised at AEI.
    ...
    Bibliography
    Christopher DeMuth and William Kristol, eds. The Neoconservative Imagination: Essays in Honor of Irving Kristol. Washington: AEI Press, 1995. (ISBN 0844738999)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_DeMuth
     
    From the Anti-Defamation League, of all places:

    Alyza Lewin
    President & General Counsel, The Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human Rights Under Law

    Alyza D. Lewin is a co-founder and partner in Lewin & Lewin, LLP where she specializes in litigation, mediation and government relations. She is also the President and General Counsel of the Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human Rights Under Law, a non-profit organization established to advance the civil and human rights of the Jewish people and promote justice for all. The Brandeis Center conducts research, education and advocacy to combat the resurgence of anti-Semitism on college and university campuses.

    Ms. Lewin has represented numerous high-profile clients. Her work includes criminal defense, civil litigation, anti-discrimination, security clearance and Foreign Agent Registration Act (FARA) matters. In 2014, Lewin argued Zivotofsky v. Kerry (the “Jerusalem Passport” case) before the U.S. Supreme Court, a case involving the constitutionality of a law granting any American citizen born in Jerusalem the right to list “Israel” as the place of birth on his/her U.S. passport. Ms. Lewin was involved in the 12-year pro-bono litigation conducted by her firm in the District of Columbia courts and in the Supreme Court of the United States.

    Ms. Lewin, together with her father Nathan Lewin, also successfully represented the Boim family in its landmark civil tort litigation which established the right of American victims of terror to obtain damages under American law against organizations that knowingly provide financial support to international terrorist groups. Boim v. Holy Land Foundation for Relief, 549 F.3d 685 (7th Cir. 2008).

    https://www.adl.org/alyza_lewin
     

    So officials from ADL are behind the neocon2.0 fake nationalist movement. Imagine my shock.

    We need to make the ADL our top target for ridicule online. It’s our best best to drive a wedge between whites and neocons. Grassroots conservatives, even the ones who are pro-Israel hate the ADL. Really, really hate it. The ADL is indefensible. Make the neocons and fake nationalists defend it.

    We need to get grassroots conservatives attacking the ADL. Ask people like Amy Wax and Yoram Hazony why there are associating with members of an openly anti-white group. If they have another conference like this, all of our guys who get in should do some kind of protest where they wave anti-ADL signs and disrupt the event and refuse to leave. That would shut these scum down for good.

  128. I’m fascinated by how Tucker Carlson and Amy Wax pointing out the obvious reality of Latino Littering tends to drive liberals insane with rage. Why?

    At root, because it contradicts the minoritarian narrative, white evil/sin and desirability of white dispossession.

    But the specific trigger is precisely because litter is a visible indicator of crappiness, and one that is offensive to good-whites.

    The whole minoritarian agenda depends on denial and boiling the frog. The “everyone’s the same … except whites who are racist/evil” narrative depends critically on middle class whites not noticing differences, mostly simply by not having the invaders in their neighborhoods and their behavior visible. Calling attention to Hispanic littering, breaks this “see no evil” approach.

  129. @RadicalCenter
    Well, it’s a big place with a lot of ethnic groups and habits, I guess. But our experience is entirely to the contrary.

    My parents, grandparents and great grandparents — the earliest of the three generations being born in Italy, Germany, and Eastern Europe before coming here to the USA — NEVER littered on the street or anywhere else, and would be ashamed to do so. (Relying on what grandparents and parents have said about their memories and what they were taught, including my mother who just scoffed when I said people were claiming that Americans threw trash out the car window back then.) I know that any of my grandparents would be disgusted and disappointed if I were found throwing trash on the ground “like a savage”, they might say.

    They were especially conscious of proving that they were civilized people, showing it to the Protestant / British majority who was here first. Never be heard speaking something besides English, always work no matter how bad the job, go to church, take care of your children, and fight for the country. That’s what they taught and did, poor as they were. I love them. I am so proud of them all. Throwing trash would be a disgrace to our family and to our people. They swept their freaking sidewalks in the middle of ny city and other then-white but crowded places in northeastern NJ, then Long Island etc.

    I have never even known or heard of any white American thinking it to be normal or acceptable to throw trash in the streets half a century ago or (reportedly) a century ago.

    The only acceptable time to throw something not in the garbage was, and is, to toss a small, readily biodegradable food item into a field or woods, like when you are walking in outer suburbs or the country and finish eating a piece of fruit. That’s it.

    Yeah that’s my experience and memories as well. I think we were a bit insouciant about the “biodegradables” but littering in general was a big no-no. I remember watching propaganda films about it in the 70’s in grade school.

    I think what really helped was the decline in smoking. Used to be that people would drop cigarette butts wherever and that would make the ground look messy to begin with. This is Europe’s problem now: their streets are like ashtrays and if you drop something into an ashtray, well, so what.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    stillCaRelist wrote

    :Yeah that’s my experience and memories as well. I think we were a bit insouciant about the “biodegradables” but littering in general was a big no-no. I remember watching propaganda films about it in the 70’s in grade school.
     
    If you were in grade school in the '70s, you are way too young to remember when Americans littered freely. Back then, the word "biodegradable" was not in general use: a bit of googling suggests the term was not invented until around 1962, when the anti-littering campaign was first starting to have an effect.

    Before then, just toss it out the window, man!
  130. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:

    Our new country’s gonna be great

    https://www.courant.com/breaking-news/hc-br-bloomfield-cow-killed-home-depot-20190719-lxrcjmgi25bexaz7nwpc5nhike-story.html

    Runaway cow slaughter in Home Depot parking lot in Bloomfield sparks investigations

    By ABIGAIL BRONE
    HARTFORD COURANT
    JUL 19, 2019

    Police and town officials are investigating a Bloomfield halal butcher shop after an employee killed a runaway cow in the nearby parking lot of Home Depot.
    The cow broke out of Saba Live Poultry on Granby Street on Saturday afternoon, a Bloomfield police report said. The young cow crossed Granby Street and headed toward the Home Depot where a Saba employee used a 12-inch knife to slit the cow’s throat in the store’s parking lot, the police report said.

    The store was closed for business Friday afternoon as police, zoning authorities, the health and fire departments, as well as the U.S. Department of Agriculture investigated the incident, Bloomfield Police Capt. Stephen Hajdasz said.
    Bloomfield police Officer Brendan Danaher was driving past the Home Depot on Saturday when he saw the butcher shop employees running across the street. He turned around to assist, spotted the brown cow covered in feces, and called for backup, the report said…

    Connecticut used to be be pretty boring and bland. I.e., no vibrant and without animal slaughters in the hardware store parking lot.

  131. @Thea
    What is the solution then to mental illness and drug abuse leading to homelessness? Apart from locking these people away, which now won’t be tolerated, how has any society dealt with this successfully ?

    Dr. Drew Pinsky talks a lot about this problem on his podcast with Adam Carolla and he favors expanded conservatorship. Give someone who cares about that person (if someone can be found) the legal means to take action. There are probably issues with that approach as well, but what we are doing right now obviously isn’t working and I can’t see how a bureaucratic approach could be as effective as giving loved ones a chance to help.

    • Replies: @Thea
    I think that is what saved Britney Spears’ life.
  132. Anon[276] • Disclaimer says:
    @istevefan

    “Pointing out the obvious reality of Latino Littering tends to drive liberals insane with rage. Why?”
     
    I had a somewhat related experience at dinner two nights ago when the drinks were served with paper straws. Folks at the table were giving praise to the restaurant for its contribution to the environment. I mentioned the Pacific plastic patch, and the ten rivers that account for 90 percent of the world's plastic waste.

    Needless to say that did not go down well and the subject was quickly changed.

    The plastic waste that ends up in those rivers have their origin in places like the US. The US exports its plastic waste:

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/oct/05/huge-rise-us-plastic-waste-shipments-to-poor-countries-china-ban-thailand-malaysia-vietnam

    ““Instead of taking responsibility for their own waste, US companies are exploiting developing countries that lack the regulation to protect themselves,” said John Hocevar, Oceans campaign director for Greenpeace USA.

    The waste, some of which consists of household recycling produced in the US, includes single-use plastic bottles, plastic bags and food wrappings, said Hocevar. It can, however, contain toxic materials.

    “It’s a problem for the US and other developed countries to produce, often, toxic material which they can’t or won’t take care of themselves.””

    • Replies: @Moses

    The plastic waste that ends up in those rivers have their origin in places like the US. The US exports its plastic waste:

     

    You’ve never been to Asia, have you?

    Believe me, Asians need no help at all generating plastic to dump into rivers that flow to the sea.
    , @Autochthon
    They are "being exploited" how, exactly? Are a flotilla of Arleigh Burke class destroyers offshore threatening to demolish the capitols with cruise missiles if the ships full of trash are not admitted and unloaded?

    Aren't the governments and landowners of these places voluntarily accepting the stuff for valid consideration? It may be somewhat meaningful to speak of an old lady or a young person being "exploited" by a contract which probably isn't tje best deal for her, notwithstanding her legal agency to execute it, but if sovereign nations, presumably represented by the most powerful and popular of their people, cannot be responsible for their own decisions without being "exploited," then who the Hell can?

    They "lack the regulation to protect themselves," do they? Well Hell, regulations are not like, say, manganese or arable land – every nation on Earth, however poor or small, and where-ever located, has exactly as much access to them as every other nation. If these people "lack the regulations to protect themselves" they can create those regulations in an afternoon of legislation. Regulations can be made, in a very real sense, out of thin air and instantaneously, for goodness' sake!

    It's all more baloney implying only white people have agency.

    Take Iceland: tiny, not populous, no military power, very poor in resources. No one is "exploiting them" by shipping garbage to Iceland, and why? Because the Icelandic people simply say "no, thank you; we will not accept your garbage." Well, that was easy.

    (Almost as easy as saying to an understandably irate man "Sir, I understand your frustration, and I do apologise, but I am expecting, and it is difficult for me to stand for long periods, so I had hoped it would not be too much bother to you and others if I used the express check-out even though I have a few more items than the limit." Which reply would almost certainly and immediately resolve the situation.)
  133. I have to say I admire Wax, she’s gutsy. Here’s the relatively mild and well-reasoned article that got her labeled a badthinker – I appreciate that she hasn’t walked it back in the least.

    https://www.inquirer.com/philly/opinion/commentary/paying-the-price-for-breakdown-of-the-countrys-bourgeois-culture-20170809.html

    Of course, university tenure does provide some nice cover – perhaps we need a form of tenure for other professions that protect people from losing employment over their “wrong in the current year” political and social ideas.

    • Replies: @Jesse
    I remember that. She's extremely intelligent, and gutsy. She's also wrong.

    Some on the left, and the Establishment Right, are now tentatively talking about "culture" as a cause for societal (let's be honest here, black) dysfunction. They seem to feel especially brave doing so, but it's confusing causation and correlation.

    A bourgeois culture comes from people who have the ability to save, work hard, respond calmly to provocation, and maintain healthy, long term family relationships. It doesn't cause them, except to the extent that it selects for those people. (Like it or not, the long fifties actively selected against them.)

    You could get African Americans to adhere to upper middle class, white family formation norms (by, I dunno, cattle prods or something) and they'd still have the same genetics. The only real solution is to simplify society, close the borders, stop and reverse globalization etc., and accept that they will, on a community level, look different from the white elite norms.

    Oh, and ensure that the smartest, most functional ones are having lots of kids with each other, one way or the other. Which may just involve directly paying them and, okay, praising them to high heavens.
  134. Not just Norway. Singapore is far clearer than the typical American city.

  135. Having been a young child in the 1960s, I laughed hysterically (I love that word!) when I first saw this scene in Mad Men:

    Apparently some peoples can be taught not to litter in only a few decades; others peoples’ tendency towards filth simply cannot be mentioned.

  136. @Anonymous

    Great. But. on a group level, they have the same kind of problems white Americans had before the 1950s. Luckily, it’s an extremely easy set of problems to solve. But you can’t solve what you won’t name.
     
    If it is true that people can be trained to not litter (as you and Steve claim), then Wax is wrong that we need to base immigration policy on different countries' littering habits.

    Not necessarily; acculturation takes time, and you could make the argument we don’t want to import too many people who aren’t already at a certain level of not-littering/low time preference/etc.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Not necessarily; acculturation takes time, and you could make the argument we don’t want to import too many people who aren’t already at a certain level of not-littering/low time preference/etc.
     
    But that isn't the argument being made.
  137. @Jesse
    One of the interesting things about Italy is that the North, especially the ethnically German areas, are much cleaner. I adore the Italians too, but it's a major problem. Prior to the German bad behavior - including insulting the PIIGS, in 2008, they might've been able to shame and cajole them into behaving better, but that ship seems to have sailed.

    I don’t think anyone in Europe wants the Germans telling them what to do since about 1945.

    That’s actually been a subtext of a lot of this anti-EU stuff since 2008–it’s German bankers they’re immediately mad at, but the Hitler comparisons pop up too.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I don’t think anyone in Europe wants the Germans telling them what to do since about 1945.
     
    Change "Germans" to "French", and subtract a couple of centuries.



    https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2014/05/20/18/pg-35-napoleon-1-dea-getty.jpg?w768
  138. SFG says:
    @Thomas

    “Judeo-Christianity” is a nonsensical term that needs to just go away, much like the neocons that are so fond of it.
     
    Paraphrasing something I saw on Twitter, I like to say that "there is no "Judeo-Christianity" any more than there is "Islamo-Christianity" or "Hindu-Christianity" or "Voodoo-Christianity.""

    Funny but I've known a few very religious Jews who bristle at the term too and are ready to point out how radically dissimilar Judaism and Christianity are.

    Christianity actually did inherit quite a bit from Judaism, but the term came out of a desire to be ecumenical back in the 50s that no longer really applies; the groups on the left that used it either include other faiths or are hostile to religion altogether, and on the non-dissident right it’s more about preserving Christianity from LGBTQ, etc. from what I can see.

  139. @Thomas
    Vox Day did an excellent takedown of this fraud too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpIAc9by5iU

    I recommend everyone just Google the principals. This attempt to rebrand neoconservatism is so clumsy and obvious I almost feel like they're daring anyone to call it out for what it is to smear them with the anti-semite label. If that meme picture with the happy merchant wearing a normie mask was an actual institution, it would be this.

    https://burke.foundation/people/

    Some choicier excerpts:

    David Brog

    David Brog is the former Executive Director of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), an American pro-Israel Christian organization. He is the author of In Defense of Faith: The Judeo-Christian Idea and the Struggle for Humanity and Standing With Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State. On March 20, 2017 he released his latest book, Reclaiming Israel’s History: Roots, Rights, and the Struggle for Peace.

    Education and career
    Brog graduated from Princeton University with his bachelor's degree. He then went on to Harvard Law School where he graduated with his JD in 1991. After graduating from Harvard Law School, Brog served as an executive at America Online and practiced corporate law both in Israel and the United States. Afterwards he worked in the United States Senate for seven years, where he eventually became the chief of staff to Senator Arlen Specter and staff director of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He became the Executive Director of Christians United For Israel (CUFI), an American pro-Israel Christian organization in 2006.

    In July 2015, Brog was tapped to head a new group called the Maccabee Task Force, an entity formed by American philanthropists Sheldon Adelson and Haim Saban to combat Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) activities on the college campus level. Brog's exploits as head of the Maccabee Task Force were featured in a documentary entitled The Israel Lobby in the U.S.

    Personal life
    He is a cousin of former Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Barak, whose original surname was also "Brog" until he Hebraized it to Barak in 1972.

    Books
    Reclaiming Israel’s History: Roots, Rights, and the Struggle for Peace (2017)
    In Defense of Faith: The Judeo-Christian Idea and the Struggle for Humanity (2010)
    Standing With Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State (2006)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Brog
     

    Christopher C. DeMuth (born August 5, 1946) is an American lawyer and a distinguished fellow at the Hudson Institute. He was the president of the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a conservative think tank, from 1986 to 2008.
    ...
    Presidency of AEI
    ...
    DeMuth presided over the institute as a number of high-profile scholars joined AEI, including Charles Murray, Richard and Lynne Cheney, Michael Barone, James K. Glassman, Newt Gingrich, Karl Zinsmeister, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali. As many as twenty AEI scholars served in the George W. Bush administration. AEI scholars also influenced the administration. Announcing his departure from AEI in 2007, DeMuth noted that the Iraq surge strategy was devised at AEI.
    ...
    Bibliography
    Christopher DeMuth and William Kristol, eds. The Neoconservative Imagination: Essays in Honor of Irving Kristol. Washington: AEI Press, 1995. (ISBN 0844738999)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_DeMuth
     
    From the Anti-Defamation League, of all places:

    Alyza Lewin
    President & General Counsel, The Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human Rights Under Law

    Alyza D. Lewin is a co-founder and partner in Lewin & Lewin, LLP where she specializes in litigation, mediation and government relations. She is also the President and General Counsel of the Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human Rights Under Law, a non-profit organization established to advance the civil and human rights of the Jewish people and promote justice for all. The Brandeis Center conducts research, education and advocacy to combat the resurgence of anti-Semitism on college and university campuses.

    Ms. Lewin has represented numerous high-profile clients. Her work includes criminal defense, civil litigation, anti-discrimination, security clearance and Foreign Agent Registration Act (FARA) matters. In 2014, Lewin argued Zivotofsky v. Kerry (the “Jerusalem Passport” case) before the U.S. Supreme Court, a case involving the constitutionality of a law granting any American citizen born in Jerusalem the right to list “Israel” as the place of birth on his/her U.S. passport. Ms. Lewin was involved in the 12-year pro-bono litigation conducted by her firm in the District of Columbia courts and in the Supreme Court of the United States.

    Ms. Lewin, together with her father Nathan Lewin, also successfully represented the Boim family in its landmark civil tort litigation which established the right of American victims of terror to obtain damages under American law against organizations that knowingly provide financial support to international terrorist groups. Boim v. Holy Land Foundation for Relief, 549 F.3d 685 (7th Cir. 2008).

    https://www.adl.org/alyza_lewin
     

    I’m all for a Jewish/white gentile alliance, but if these guys are going to put Israel first (as it seems) it will all fall apart.

    • Replies: @Thomas

    I’m all for a Jewish/white gentile alliance, but if these guys are going to put Israel first (as it seems) it will all fall apart.
     
    Nice idea but it seems that the "white gentile" side of that slash inevitably winds up becoming "Mrs. Israel first." Kirk/Buckley conservatism managed to last about 50 years before it had been completely parasitized into neoconservatism, enough to produce the Iraq War and George W. "every immigrant makes us more American" Bush. And that was with the Cold War keeping a lid on the inherent contradictions for most of that period.

    I just don't see right-leaning white gentiles in and of themselves having enough of a self-conscious, self-interested, and intellectually capable bench of potential elites to hold their own in an alliance like that. There just aren't enough flyover Whites getting into the institutions that produce elites (Harvard, Princeton, etc.) and staying racially conscious to stand up to the neocons (the token yokels they let into these outfits who study biblical archaeology sure aren't going to do it).
    , @Thea
    Israel isn’t the problem with the alliance but rather strange Jewish proclivities towards communism or neurotic obsessions with their kin. Coupled with whites tendency to embrace the outgroup at the expense of their kin.
  140. @nebulafox
    "Judeo-Christianity" is a nonsensical term that needs to just go away, much like the neocons that are so fond of it.

    “Judeo-Christianity” is a nonsensical term that needs to just go away, much like the neocons that are so fond of it.

    It has two different meanings with two different purposes. One is to unite today’s Christians with today’s Jews. The other is to unite today’s Christians with yesterday’s Jews.

    The latter has the advantage of turning a 2000-year-old tradition into a 6000-year-old one. The last 2000 years are the “new, improved” version. No human sacrifice, and no goat sacrifice either.

    Why wouldn’t someone choose Christianity, when the alternatives are amoral materialism and cartoon paganism?

  141. SFG says:
    @216
    Thanks to Buckley we've been locked into endless foreign wars.

    Instead we could have followed the traditional American foreign policy of Washington's Farewell Address.

    But we have to subsidize aggressive Zionists, economic competitors in ROK/JP/ROC, and European welfare states.

    Go back to 1950 for a second. The Soviet Union was definitely interested in spreading Communism, and if Europe had gone commie it’s not entirely impossible there would be missiles in France aimed at us now or, God forbid, German Communists running a police state with German efficiency rather than Russian. (Just because Russians can’t run a socialist state doesn’t mean Germans couldn’t.)

    There was a whole neocon/paleocon confluence of interests that appeared when the Soviet Union turned on Israel (to support anticolonialist Arabs against Western Europe) that dissolved after 1989 and, with the neocons running things, got us into Iraq. So–it worked for 40 years.

    Buckley’s concern was less being nice to Jews than the unpalatability of antisemitism (even at the vague Mencken level) so soon after Hitler. There were still people who had fought WW2 and seen the camps, after all. (Yeah, they were real. It doesn’t excuse second-wave feminism or the Iraq Attaq, but what happened happened.) Any political movement, at least in the USA with its big two-party system and centrist tendencies, has to differentiate itself from its extremists on the same side–you saw this during the Cold War with liberal anticommunism. America moves slowly.

    Also, I have stopped caring about the Middle East after Iraq, but I’m not sure we really want China overrunning Japan and South Korea.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    There was a whole neocon/paleocon confluence of interests that appeared when the Soviet Union turned on Israel (to support anticolonialist Arabs against Western Europe)
     
    The Soviet Union didn't "turn on" Israel. The United States took up with Israel, pushing the Soviet Union into the arms of the Muslim States.
    , @ATBOTL
    The longer Hitler was dead, the less tolerant of the truth Buckley became.
    , @Anonymous

    There were still people who had fought WW2 and seen the camps, after all. (Yeah, they were real. It doesn’t excuse second-wave feminism or the Iraq Attaq, but what happened happened.)
     
    No American soldiers saw a "death camp." All of the storied death camps happened to end up behind the Iron Curtain.
  142. @SFG
    I don't think anyone in Europe wants the Germans telling them what to do since about 1945.

    That's actually been a subtext of a lot of this anti-EU stuff since 2008--it's German bankers they're immediately mad at, but the Hitler comparisons pop up too.

    I don’t think anyone in Europe wants the Germans telling them what to do since about 1945.

    Change “Germans” to “French”, and subtract a couple of centuries.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Agreed.
  143. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Counterinsurgency
    And what’s with the Hispanic graffiti thing? Why do they like to make their neighborhoods look trashy?

    Dominance signaling, territorial marking, and prestige. Hispanics believe in direct, even flamboyant, expression of dominance rather than in displays of control, hence graffiti by low level gangs and "street artists" and bodies hanging from overpasses in mexico.

    Counterinsurgency

    Perhaps. But I think Latinos also just like painting murals on things. Some of these paintings are somewhat garish to us, and they can become weathered and shabby quickly, but it’s not always, or even mostly, gang signals.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    The post-Revolutionary Mexican government in the 1920s paid its best painters like Rivera and Orozco to paint huge murals on the new government buildings to send government-approved messages to illiterates. I don't think murals were much of a Mexican tradition before that, but now they are. There's a mile-long mural near my house painted by Chicano junior college students in the 1970s.
    , @Counterinsurgency
    Sometimes markers are just to show that a particular group controls a particular place.

    Story:
    At one point I'd moved to Arlington, VA. The place was, at the time, largely government buildings with offices and either office worker lunch places or restaurants suitable for the executives meeting off-site.
    OK, so National Public Radio NPR came in. At the same time, an NPR associated outfit painted Latin American style murals under the local overpass _and installed closed circuit TV cameras to catch anybody trying to paint them over_. On top of that, the put garish paper mache mock aircraft (Latin American festival style) over pretty much the entire area. As a final gesture, one morning as I walked to work, two NPR guys, mid 30s, came out to the commuter traffic bearing one way road _and skateboarded against traffic_.
    They were just marking their territory. I don't think NPR was responsible for the urine smell in oneof the overpasses near the NPR offices, but it wouldn't surprise me much. Literal minded bunch, and not very mature.

    Counterinsurgency
  144. @Sleep
    While I'm sympathetic to those who play by the rules,

    Some districts are now saying that they’ll take kids into foster care if the parents don’t pay,
     
    strikes me as an enormous overreaction. I have to assume this is an idle threat intended to shame the parents, since shaming the kids doesn't really work. But I could be wrong....

    Not really. If you’ve stated that you can’t and/or won’t feed your damn kids (and a lot of the people are saying that school lunches are the only hot meals these kids get) then child services has to at least take a look.

    Frankly, I’m more outraged at the idea that it’s normal to be too out of it to make a sandwich (or, with older kids, buy the ingredients and tell them to get on with it.)

    And I’m absolutely fuming at the attempt to normalize being broke to that extent. If there are really are tens of millions of kids with parents who genuinely can’t feed them, that’s a cause for a complete realignment of the social and political orders. But that would mean going after shibboleths like open borders, and we can’t have that, can we?

  145. Forget the littering.

    Do bears shit in the woods?

    They sure do. And so do many recent arrivals from exotic places. Now maybe in the Middle East or in Africa the sun will work its magic and degrade or sterilise the turd quickly, but not at 55N.

  146. @Laurence Whelk
    I have to say I admire Wax, she’s gutsy. Here’s the relatively mild and well-reasoned article that got her labeled a badthinker - I appreciate that she hasn’t walked it back in the least.

    https://www.inquirer.com/philly/opinion/commentary/paying-the-price-for-breakdown-of-the-countrys-bourgeois-culture-20170809.html

    Of course, university tenure does provide some nice cover - perhaps we need a form of tenure for other professions that protect people from losing employment over their “wrong in the current year” political and social ideas.

    I remember that. She’s extremely intelligent, and gutsy. She’s also wrong.

    Some on the left, and the Establishment Right, are now tentatively talking about “culture” as a cause for societal (let’s be honest here, black) dysfunction. They seem to feel especially brave doing so, but it’s confusing causation and correlation.

    A bourgeois culture comes from people who have the ability to save, work hard, respond calmly to provocation, and maintain healthy, long term family relationships. It doesn’t cause them, except to the extent that it selects for those people. (Like it or not, the long fifties actively selected against them.)

    You could get African Americans to adhere to upper middle class, white family formation norms (by, I dunno, cattle prods or something) and they’d still have the same genetics. The only real solution is to simplify society, close the borders, stop and reverse globalization etc., and accept that they will, on a community level, look different from the white elite norms.

    Oh, and ensure that the smartest, most functional ones are having lots of kids with each other, one way or the other. Which may just involve directly paying them and, okay, praising them to high heavens.

  147. @nebulafox
    Texas still had a big littering problem back in the 1980s. The most egregious offenders tended to be blue-collar younger men dumping all kinds of stuff from their trucks.

    The solution from the state government was pretty simple and intuitive: en masse cultural messaging about respecting Texan ground from prominent Dallas Cowboys.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2qIF3PL7lQ

    With how far socio-cultural atomization is proceeding in the US, aka, the common belonging part, this is getting trickier to pull off.

    Texas’s “Don’t Mess with Texas” anti-littering campaign was aimed directly at blue collar white and Hispanic young men, with football players, ZZ Top, etc. telling them to defend Texas from litter.

    I haven’t been to Texas in a while, but I was told it worked pretty effectively.

  148. @Anonymous

    (In fact, you can’t really assimilate,
     
    Why can't he assimilate?

    and if you try you’re going to be disappointed.)
     
    Why would assimilation be disappointing?

    Because the Japanese, for better or for worse, won’t accept him. They are aaaaallll about the racial purity.

    They have an ethnically Korean minority, often at least four generations deep, which they can’t tell the difference between, physically or culturally. They still won’t accept them. Outside of the more risqué parts of the society, they don’t want them marrying into their families. Hell, they don’t even like people with one not entirely Japanese parent.

    My old boss used to go there every year for martial arts training. He spoke the language and followed the customs. Japanese people wouldn’t want him sitting next to them on public transport.

    Now, that might work for the Japanese. They can obviously run their own culture as they see fit. But, even if it was possible, would he really want to assimilate into that culture? It’s obviously not intended for people like him.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    Yeah, basically. My Japanese wife identifies as a " liberal" and " Communist" but she is pretty skeptical about Koreans. This weekend, we travelled from our very cosmopolitan city to a rural place, and all the Japanese men in the rural place got out of the public bath when I got in. Almost simultaneously! (Truth be told, I get a little reactionary thrill when shit like that goes down.)

    Can anyone assimilate into such a racially-based culture? I doubt it!! I've read books about Will Adams and other modern migrants, but they don't really fit in. Koreans and Chinese can if they can speak fkuently. It's a racial thing.

    Shout out to iSteve commenters based in Japan!!
  149. @Bruno
    You should mention that Amy Wax is Jewish. Because always mentioning the Jews when they defend Immigratiin-invasion and minority rights and not when they attack it is not fair and contribute to a biased view of the Jewish contribution.

    The most paradoxical comment I have read was here somme people saying Unz.com was the only site where the power of the Jewish people through media and culture industry, or ZOG theory, is brought to attention, without saying that Ron Unz provides the critical platform in the less cryptic way possible because he is the eponymous of it by definition.

    Give the jews their credit in full.

    I fully concur. As much flak as Jewish people get in regards to these things (often rightly so) they deserve credit when one of their own is willing to bite a bullet this big for the whites.

  150. @SFG
    I'm all for a Jewish/white gentile alliance, but if these guys are going to put Israel first (as it seems) it will all fall apart.

    I’m all for a Jewish/white gentile alliance, but if these guys are going to put Israel first (as it seems) it will all fall apart.

    Nice idea but it seems that the “white gentile” side of that slash inevitably winds up becoming “Mrs. Israel first.” Kirk/Buckley conservatism managed to last about 50 years before it had been completely parasitized into neoconservatism, enough to produce the Iraq War and George W. “every immigrant makes us more American” Bush. And that was with the Cold War keeping a lid on the inherent contradictions for most of that period.

    I just don’t see right-leaning white gentiles in and of themselves having enough of a self-conscious, self-interested, and intellectually capable bench of potential elites to hold their own in an alliance like that. There just aren’t enough flyover Whites getting into the institutions that produce elites (Harvard, Princeton, etc.) and staying racially conscious to stand up to the neocons (the token yokels they let into these outfits who study biblical archaeology sure aren’t going to do it).

    • Replies: @SFG
    50 years was long enough to win the Cold War, though.

    I agree, there is a real elite/bases problem there. The closest the gentile right has is the evangelicals, and they're not doing that well as young people desert religion. I suspect the real thinking behind this is guys like Carlson figure they have to get enough Jews on their side to avoid the Nazi slur and see this as a way to do so--supporting Israel is not so high a price to pay to get closed borders and an end or at least a countermovement to 'woke' transgender stuff. Assuming the hyperZionists keep their end of the bargain, of course...
  151. @Anonymous
    Perhaps. But I think Latinos also just like painting murals on things. Some of these paintings are somewhat garish to us, and they can become weathered and shabby quickly, but it’s not always, or even mostly, gang signals.

    The post-Revolutionary Mexican government in the 1920s paid its best painters like Rivera and Orozco to paint huge murals on the new government buildings to send government-approved messages to illiterates. I don’t think murals were much of a Mexican tradition before that, but now they are. There’s a mile-long mural near my house painted by Chicano junior college students in the 1970s.

  152. Anonymous[131] • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG
    Go back to 1950 for a second. The Soviet Union was definitely interested in spreading Communism, and if Europe had gone commie it's not entirely impossible there would be missiles in France aimed at us now or, God forbid, German Communists running a police state with German efficiency rather than Russian. (Just because Russians can't run a socialist state doesn't mean Germans couldn't.)

    There was a whole neocon/paleocon confluence of interests that appeared when the Soviet Union turned on Israel (to support anticolonialist Arabs against Western Europe) that dissolved after 1989 and, with the neocons running things, got us into Iraq. So--it worked for 40 years.

    Buckley's concern was less being nice to Jews than the unpalatability of antisemitism (even at the vague Mencken level) so soon after Hitler. There were still people who had fought WW2 and seen the camps, after all. (Yeah, they were real. It doesn't excuse second-wave feminism or the Iraq Attaq, but what happened happened.) Any political movement, at least in the USA with its big two-party system and centrist tendencies, has to differentiate itself from its extremists on the same side--you saw this during the Cold War with liberal anticommunism. America moves slowly.

    Also, I have stopped caring about the Middle East after Iraq, but I'm not sure we really want China overrunning Japan and South Korea.

    There was a whole neocon/paleocon confluence of interests that appeared when the Soviet Union turned on Israel (to support anticolonialist Arabs against Western Europe)

    The Soviet Union didn’t “turn on” Israel. The United States took up with Israel, pushing the Soviet Union into the arms of the Muslim States.

  153. @Redneck farmer
    "The racists are deporting POCs over civil fines!" is how fining Latino Litterbugs will be reported.

    Garbage in – garbage out!

  154. Anonymous[131] • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG
    Not necessarily; acculturation takes time, and you could make the argument we don't want to import too many people who aren't already at a certain level of not-littering/low time preference/etc.

    Not necessarily; acculturation takes time, and you could make the argument we don’t want to import too many people who aren’t already at a certain level of not-littering/low time preference/etc.

    But that isn’t the argument being made.

  155. I guess aside from Wax’s comments, the other kerfluffle out of this conference was Sen. Josh Hawley using the word “cosmopolitan” and sending everyone to the fainting couch.

    Much edgy! I guess we’re all supposed to squeal like little girls and go “OMG! I love Zionism now!” Actually kind of clever, building this sort of pro-wrestling-style fake controversy in your fake nationalist AstroTurf operation. Definitely a step up from the “Intellectual Dark Web” bad boys who didn’t sell.

    • Replies: @SFG
    Yeah, that's what I thought, though I think Kristol's a globalist first and Zionist second, and Hazony's a Zionist first and nationalist second. So you have a genuine split here on this issue.

    As for the IDW...that was as much if not more for ex-lefties who believed in freedom of speech and inquiry as it was for righties. I could see it evolving into an 'unaligned' libertarian-like movement that has similar all-chiefs-and-no-Indians demographics.

    , @Kronos
    Wait, didn’t Kristol (The Whistle) already delete his Twitter account? What neocon am I thinking of then?
  156. @SFG
    Go back to 1950 for a second. The Soviet Union was definitely interested in spreading Communism, and if Europe had gone commie it's not entirely impossible there would be missiles in France aimed at us now or, God forbid, German Communists running a police state with German efficiency rather than Russian. (Just because Russians can't run a socialist state doesn't mean Germans couldn't.)

    There was a whole neocon/paleocon confluence of interests that appeared when the Soviet Union turned on Israel (to support anticolonialist Arabs against Western Europe) that dissolved after 1989 and, with the neocons running things, got us into Iraq. So--it worked for 40 years.

    Buckley's concern was less being nice to Jews than the unpalatability of antisemitism (even at the vague Mencken level) so soon after Hitler. There were still people who had fought WW2 and seen the camps, after all. (Yeah, they were real. It doesn't excuse second-wave feminism or the Iraq Attaq, but what happened happened.) Any political movement, at least in the USA with its big two-party system and centrist tendencies, has to differentiate itself from its extremists on the same side--you saw this during the Cold War with liberal anticommunism. America moves slowly.

    Also, I have stopped caring about the Middle East after Iraq, but I'm not sure we really want China overrunning Japan and South Korea.

    The longer Hitler was dead, the less tolerant of the truth Buckley became.

  157. @Charles Pewitt

    Z-Man did this conference. His reports on his blog and here at Unz were a hoot. Basically an attempt to set up a new Buckley-style gatekeeper operation before the Trump-inspired yokels start noticing too many things.

     

    I say some dead guy from Harvard named Huntington said the USA was a British Protestant settler nation.

    I say the USA is a European Christian nation because I am a Euro-Mongrel and I want to win the support of German voters in the future.

    This guy is from Indiana and Krauts are crawling the Hell all over Indiana.

    https://twitter.com/MatthewParrott/status/1152370222164303873

    The ‘Historical American Population’ is probably best thought of as British-Germanic, well mixed. For example there were a number of German craftsmen in the Jamestown settlement, and obviously Pennsylvania Colony was extremely Germanic; many of those people’s descendants ended up in the Upper Midwest.

    Although at the time, of course, ‘Germany’ did not exist as a political entity, there was the Holy Roman Empire, with lots of little German-speaking statelets, which were the source of many of these colonists.

  158. @Reg Cæsar

    I don’t think anyone in Europe wants the Germans telling them what to do since about 1945.
     
    Change "Germans" to "French", and subtract a couple of centuries.



    https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2014/05/20/18/pg-35-napoleon-1-dea-getty.jpg?w768

    Agreed.

  159. @Thomas
    I guess aside from Wax’s comments, the other kerfluffle out of this conference was Sen. Josh Hawley using the word “cosmopolitan” and sending everyone to the fainting couch.

    https://twitter.com/billkristol/status/1151467084095922176

    Much edgy! I guess we’re all supposed to squeal like little girls and go “OMG! I love Zionism now!” Actually kind of clever, building this sort of pro-wrestling-style fake controversy in your fake nationalist AstroTurf operation. Definitely a step up from the “Intellectual Dark Web” bad boys who didn’t sell.

    Yeah, that’s what I thought, though I think Kristol’s a globalist first and Zionist second, and Hazony’s a Zionist first and nationalist second. So you have a genuine split here on this issue.

    As for the IDW…that was as much if not more for ex-lefties who believed in freedom of speech and inquiry as it was for righties. I could see it evolving into an ‘unaligned’ libertarian-like movement that has similar all-chiefs-and-no-Indians demographics.

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Yeah, that’s what I thought, though I think Kristol’s a globalist first and Zionist second
     
    Or is Kristol Jewish first?
  160. @Thomas
    Z-Man did this conference. His reports on his blog and here at Unz were a hoot. Basically an attempt to set up a new Buckley-style gatekeeper operation before the Trump-inspired yokels start noticing too many things.

    link pls

    • Replies: @Thomas
    http://www.unz.com/article/report-from-the-gatekeepers-ball/

    http://thezman.com/wordpress/
  161. Americans feel ownership of our public spaces, as do northern Europeans, Australians and some others.

    Shithole countries have no concern for public spaces, only private spaces. That’s why they often put their actual shit in public spaces. Likewise, people who grew up in communist countries feel little connection for spaces owned by the state that oppresses them.

    Immigrants also overuse fields in public parks, playing soccer on them 12 hours a day in cities that won’t bother them because of their special, document-free status that leads to more hassles for law officers than it’s worth. They turn these lawns to dust and dirt fields.

    They barbecue for 10 hours at a time so that the parks people find the grills worn out at the end of a summer, as happened in Montgomery County, Maryland, a whitopia par excellence in the 90s that’s now 30% Latino IIRC.

    I don’t even dislike these people from Guatemala or El Salvador or wherever. They seem pleasant enough, whatever they’re doing down there in the world below 5’4. I just don’t want my home to turn into Guatemala or El Salvador.

    • Replies: @vinteuil

    Shithole countries have no concern for public spaces, only private spaces.
     
    I think that's the key point.

    Pretty much everybody cares about their private spaces, and prefers to keep them at least a little bit clean. Extending this concern to public spaces is mostly a NW European White thing.
  162. Yeah, that’s what I thought, though I think Kristol’s a globalist first and Zionist second, and Hazony’s a Zionist first and nationalist second. So you have a genuine split here on this issue.

    I’m not sure how genuine the split is for anyone on the outside of it. I guess dying in a war in the Middle East versus a war against Russia makes a difference to some people.

    As for the IDW…that was as much if not more for ex-lefties who believed in freedom of speech and inquiry as it was for righties. I could see it evolving into an ‘unaligned’ libertarian-like movement that has similar all-chiefs-and-no-Indians demographics.

    I call that the “Joe Rogan” demographic.

    In either case, Trumpian nationalists are obviously seen as ready-made “Indians” for whatever chiefs are in need: Zionists, libertarians, whatever. We’re not getting a wall, we’re not even allowed to know how many U.S. citizens there are, and we’re never getting our country back, but I guess we can fight for Israel, or free weed, or one of Kanye’s friends in jail in Sweden, or whatever.

  163. @Thomas

    I’m all for a Jewish/white gentile alliance, but if these guys are going to put Israel first (as it seems) it will all fall apart.
     
    Nice idea but it seems that the "white gentile" side of that slash inevitably winds up becoming "Mrs. Israel first." Kirk/Buckley conservatism managed to last about 50 years before it had been completely parasitized into neoconservatism, enough to produce the Iraq War and George W. "every immigrant makes us more American" Bush. And that was with the Cold War keeping a lid on the inherent contradictions for most of that period.

    I just don't see right-leaning white gentiles in and of themselves having enough of a self-conscious, self-interested, and intellectually capable bench of potential elites to hold their own in an alliance like that. There just aren't enough flyover Whites getting into the institutions that produce elites (Harvard, Princeton, etc.) and staying racially conscious to stand up to the neocons (the token yokels they let into these outfits who study biblical archaeology sure aren't going to do it).

    50 years was long enough to win the Cold War, though.

    I agree, there is a real elite/bases problem there. The closest the gentile right has is the evangelicals, and they’re not doing that well as young people desert religion. I suspect the real thinking behind this is guys like Carlson figure they have to get enough Jews on their side to avoid the Nazi slur and see this as a way to do so–supporting Israel is not so high a price to pay to get closed borders and an end or at least a countermovement to ‘woke’ transgender stuff. Assuming the hyperZionists keep their end of the bargain, of course…

    • Replies: @Thomas

    I suspect the real thinking behind this is guys like Carlson figure they have to get enough Jews on their side to avoid the Nazi slur and see this as a way to do so–supporting Israel is not so high a price to pay to get closed borders and an end or at least a countermovement to ‘woke’ transgender stuff. Assuming the hyperZionists keep their end of the bargain, of course…
     
    Well the embassy got moved to Jerusalem, Jared pushed his "buy off the Pallys" joke of a peace plan, and we're now rattling sabers with Iran in the Gulf, almost to the point of spilling blood last month. We're not getting a wall, aren't allowed to know how many foreigners there actually are living here, and are getting deplatformed off the Internet and out of the legitimate financial system left and right. I'd say we've got our answer on that bargain.

    https://twitter.com/DSAMikeP/status/1151930900936036352
  164. Anonymous[423] • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG
    Yeah, that's what I thought, though I think Kristol's a globalist first and Zionist second, and Hazony's a Zionist first and nationalist second. So you have a genuine split here on this issue.

    As for the IDW...that was as much if not more for ex-lefties who believed in freedom of speech and inquiry as it was for righties. I could see it evolving into an 'unaligned' libertarian-like movement that has similar all-chiefs-and-no-Indians demographics.

    Yeah, that’s what I thought, though I think Kristol’s a globalist first and Zionist second

    Or is Kristol Jewish first?

    • Replies: @SFG
    You're right, I should have flipped those.
  165. @Anonymous

    Yeah, that’s what I thought, though I think Kristol’s a globalist first and Zionist second
     
    Or is Kristol Jewish first?

    You’re right, I should have flipped those.

  166. @PiltdownMan
    Japan has a Chicano sub-culture. Spotlessly clean, of course, and so, a hopeless fail.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8bMLcCxxAA

    Those are Japanese girls dressing like cheap Chicanas. They’re not actually Chicanas, for Japan allows very few immigrants.

  167. @SFG
    50 years was long enough to win the Cold War, though.

    I agree, there is a real elite/bases problem there. The closest the gentile right has is the evangelicals, and they're not doing that well as young people desert religion. I suspect the real thinking behind this is guys like Carlson figure they have to get enough Jews on their side to avoid the Nazi slur and see this as a way to do so--supporting Israel is not so high a price to pay to get closed borders and an end or at least a countermovement to 'woke' transgender stuff. Assuming the hyperZionists keep their end of the bargain, of course...

    I suspect the real thinking behind this is guys like Carlson figure they have to get enough Jews on their side to avoid the Nazi slur and see this as a way to do so–supporting Israel is not so high a price to pay to get closed borders and an end or at least a countermovement to ‘woke’ transgender stuff. Assuming the hyperZionists keep their end of the bargain, of course…

    Well the embassy got moved to Jerusalem, Jared pushed his “buy off the Pallys” joke of a peace plan, and we’re now rattling sabers with Iran in the Gulf, almost to the point of spilling blood last month. We’re not getting a wall, aren’t allowed to know how many foreigners there actually are living here, and are getting deplatformed off the Internet and out of the legitimate financial system left and right. I’d say we’ve got our answer on that bargain.

  168. The problem, of course, is that correlation IS causation when it comes to culture and race.

    • Replies: @vinteuil

    ...correlation IS causation when it comes to culture and race.
     
    Interesting - since it's coming from you. Tell me more.
  169. @anonymous
    "Young people may not be aware that in the late ’50s, we routinely tossed any sort of trash out of the car window: from gum wrappers and fast-food trash to diapers. Why worry?"

    This is horseshit.

    I grew up in that era, I suspect you did not, or you would know that diapers, at least up until sometime in the '60's, were cloth, not disposable, fairly expensive, and people did not throw them away. Because they were cloth, not disposable, and fairly expensive.

    There have always been slobs in America, and there still are. I have no doubt that roadside littering has decreased since the that era. That does not mean that the behavior you describe was ever considered normal, or acceptable.

    anonymous[156] wrote to me:

    This is horseshit.

    I grew up in that era, I suspect you did not, or you would know that diapers, at least up until sometime in the ’60’s, were cloth, not disposable, fairly expensive, and people did not throw them away.

    Ah, your memory has faded! I fear you forget what stuff people used to dump. Yes, I remember when disposable diapers cane in — oh, I wished my mom had used them for my youngest brother so we could have avoided the stink!

    But, people did toss an amazing variety of junk. I specifically remember when my dad tried to toss some old baby blankets after my kid brother got sick in the car (you can fill in the details). Unfortunately, the Highway Patrol saw what he had done and made him pick them up and load them back into the car (ick!). At least the cop kindly told Dad he would not give him a ticket.

    It was the norm in middle-class American families back around 1960 to just toss all sots of trash out the car window. If you are old enough to remember but don’t, it is time for you to see a neurologist.

  170. @RadicalCenter
    Well, it’s a big place with a lot of ethnic groups and habits, I guess. But our experience is entirely to the contrary.

    My parents, grandparents and great grandparents — the earliest of the three generations being born in Italy, Germany, and Eastern Europe before coming here to the USA — NEVER littered on the street or anywhere else, and would be ashamed to do so. (Relying on what grandparents and parents have said about their memories and what they were taught, including my mother who just scoffed when I said people were claiming that Americans threw trash out the car window back then.) I know that any of my grandparents would be disgusted and disappointed if I were found throwing trash on the ground “like a savage”, they might say.

    They were especially conscious of proving that they were civilized people, showing it to the Protestant / British majority who was here first. Never be heard speaking something besides English, always work no matter how bad the job, go to church, take care of your children, and fight for the country. That’s what they taught and did, poor as they were. I love them. I am so proud of them all. Throwing trash would be a disgrace to our family and to our people. They swept their freaking sidewalks in the middle of ny city and other then-white but crowded places in northeastern NJ, then Long Island etc.

    I have never even known or heard of any white American thinking it to be normal or acceptable to throw trash in the streets half a century ago or (reportedly) a century ago.

    The only acceptable time to throw something not in the garbage was, and is, to toss a small, readily biodegradable food item into a field or woods, like when you are walking in outer suburbs or the country and finish eating a piece of fruit. That’s it.

    RadicalCenter wrote to me:

    I know that any of my grandparents would be disgusted and disappointed if I were found throwing trash on the ground “like a savage”, they might say.

    They were especially conscious of proving that they were civilized people, showing it to the Protestant / British majority who was here first.

    Well… I grew up in a middle-class, suburban family in the Midwest — old-stock Anglo-Saxon on Dad’s side and nineteenth-century Irsih/German immigrants on Mom’s side.

    Maybe you are just younger than I (and your elders have rose-colored glasses). StillCaRealist mentions the early ’70s, but I am talking about the late ’50s/early ’60s. The transformation happened in the ’60s and was largely over by the ’70s.

    The cultural mores I’ve described were what led to Lady Bird Johnson’s big “Make America Beautiful” campaign. It was a huge thing back in the early ’60s, everyone was aware of it, and anyone who does not remember it either did not live in the US at the time or has a fading memory. (See Jesse’s post above which alludes to some of this history: it is very well-documented. It happened.)

    Maybe your family were just remarkably good citizens, as you say, “proving that they were civilized people, showing it to the Protestant / British majority who was here first”? My family, and nearly all the middle-class Americans I knew, thought they had nothing to prove, and it took a real effort to convince them not to be, in the term of the times as Jesse notes, a “litterbug.”

    • Replies: @Twodees Partain
    You know, Dave, it would be easier to admit that you were full of shit when you wrote that first post than to be stuck having to defend it over and over. At least admit that the "we" you referred to was just you and your family and pals.
  171. @DCBillS
    When Trump took over littering at my fishing spots ended immediately. The "immigrants" do not want to get deported after being arrested for fishing without a license so they stopped stealing our fish.

    Also highway littering pre 1960 was indeed bad. Diapers were almost the least of it.

    “Also highway littering pre 1960 was indeed bad. Diapers were almost the least of it.”

    Diapers were the absolute least of it. People didn’t throw away diapers in those days. Diapers weren’t disposable back then.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    An idiot wrote:

    People didn’t throw away diapers in those days. Diapers weren’t disposable back then.
     
    So... you think people just kept diapers forever??

    As I said, my dad tossed some baby blankets after my brother got sick, but the Highway Patrol guy made him pick them up and put them back in our car.

    No, diapers were not more than half of the litter back then. But people did toss an awful lot of stuff.
  172. @Thulean Friend
    Amy Wax is the odd bird at that conference. The main guy, and convener, Yoram Hazony is trying to repackage deracinated individualism into a new folder but he has very clearly come out against White identity politics on Twitter (even as he is an ardent Jewish nationalist himself), to the surprise of noone.

    It's a dead-end conference meant to channel White energies into Zionism and neoCohenist wars for Israel. White people need to self-organise along racial lines. We need large White organisations in the US, just as blacks, asians, jews, hispanics etc all have them. That means making White identity explicit as the central locus of organising.

    “to the surprise of noone.”

    Noone wasn’t surprised? I didn’t even know he was there. Oh, wait. You meant no one. Nobody is one word. No one is two.

    • Troll: PhysicistDave, TTSSYF
    • Replies: @Autochthon
    It depends. Someday the ghost of David Lee Roth may lament "I ain't got no body!"

    (We will chastise him for the double negative, of course.)

  173. @PhysicistDave
    RadicalCenter wrote to me:

    I know that any of my grandparents would be disgusted and disappointed if I were found throwing trash on the ground “like a savage”, they might say.

    They were especially conscious of proving that they were civilized people, showing it to the Protestant / British majority who was here first.
     
    Well... I grew up in a middle-class, suburban family in the Midwest -- old-stock Anglo-Saxon on Dad's side and nineteenth-century Irsih/German immigrants on Mom's side.

    Maybe you are just younger than I (and your elders have rose-colored glasses). StillCaRealist mentions the early '70s, but I am talking about the late '50s/early '60s. The transformation happened in the '60s and was largely over by the '70s.

    The cultural mores I've described were what led to Lady Bird Johnson's big "Make America Beautiful" campaign. It was a huge thing back in the early '60s, everyone was aware of it, and anyone who does not remember it either did not live in the US at the time or has a fading memory. (See Jesse's post above which alludes to some of this history: it is very well-documented. It happened.)

    Maybe your family were just remarkably good citizens, as you say, "proving that they were civilized people, showing it to the Protestant / British majority who was here first"? My family, and nearly all the middle-class Americans I knew, thought they had nothing to prove, and it took a real effort to convince them not to be, in the term of the times as Jesse notes, a "litterbug."

    You know, Dave, it would be easier to admit that you were full of shit when you wrote that first post than to be stuck having to defend it over and over. At least admit that the “we” you referred to was just you and your family and pals.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    An idiot wrote to me:

    You know, Dave, it would be easier to admit that you were full of shit when you wrote that first post than to be stuck having to defend it over and over. At least admit that the “we” you referred to was just you and your family and pals.
     
    But then I would be lying. As Jesse and I have pointed out, anyone who lived through the time knows what happened, and it is very well documented.

    Your stupidity and ignorance are not my problem. Typical American -- you're public-school educated, I assume.

    One more example of why I should encourage my kids to brush up on their Mandarin!
    , @PhysicistDave
    Y'know, Tweedee, check out the Wikipedia article about "Pampers": looking at your (brief) comment history, I see you make a habit of saying stupid things.

    But this time, young little thing, you've been pwned.

    Now, go back into the attic. Or, more likely, change your screen name (again).
  174. @Anon
    The plastic waste that ends up in those rivers have their origin in places like the US. The US exports its plastic waste:

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/oct/05/huge-rise-us-plastic-waste-shipments-to-poor-countries-china-ban-thailand-malaysia-vietnam

    "“Instead of taking responsibility for their own waste, US companies are exploiting developing countries that lack the regulation to protect themselves,” said John Hocevar, Oceans campaign director for Greenpeace USA.

    The waste, some of which consists of household recycling produced in the US, includes single-use plastic bottles, plastic bags and food wrappings, said Hocevar. It can, however, contain toxic materials.

    “It’s a problem for the US and other developed countries to produce, often, toxic material which they can’t or won’t take care of themselves.”"

    The plastic waste that ends up in those rivers have their origin in places like the US. The US exports its plastic waste:

    You’ve never been to Asia, have you?

    Believe me, Asians need no help at all generating plastic to dump into rivers that flow to the sea.

  175. @Twodees Partain
    You know, Dave, it would be easier to admit that you were full of shit when you wrote that first post than to be stuck having to defend it over and over. At least admit that the "we" you referred to was just you and your family and pals.

    An idiot wrote to me:

    You know, Dave, it would be easier to admit that you were full of shit when you wrote that first post than to be stuck having to defend it over and over. At least admit that the “we” you referred to was just you and your family and pals.

    But then I would be lying. As Jesse and I have pointed out, anyone who lived through the time knows what happened, and it is very well documented.

    Your stupidity and ignorance are not my problem. Typical American — you’re public-school educated, I assume.

    One more example of why I should encourage my kids to brush up on their Mandarin!

  176. @Twodees Partain
    "Also highway littering pre 1960 was indeed bad. Diapers were almost the least of it."

    Diapers were the absolute least of it. People didn't throw away diapers in those days. Diapers weren't disposable back then.

    An idiot wrote:

    People didn’t throw away diapers in those days. Diapers weren’t disposable back then.

    So… you think people just kept diapers forever??

    As I said, my dad tossed some baby blankets after my brother got sick, but the Highway Patrol guy made him pick them up and put them back in our car.

    No, diapers were not more than half of the litter back then. But people did toss an awful lot of stuff.

  177. @stillCARealist
    Yeah that's my experience and memories as well. I think we were a bit insouciant about the "biodegradables" but littering in general was a big no-no. I remember watching propaganda films about it in the 70's in grade school.

    I think what really helped was the decline in smoking. Used to be that people would drop cigarette butts wherever and that would make the ground look messy to begin with. This is Europe's problem now: their streets are like ashtrays and if you drop something into an ashtray, well, so what.

    stillCaRelist wrote

    :Yeah that’s my experience and memories as well. I think we were a bit insouciant about the “biodegradables” but littering in general was a big no-no. I remember watching propaganda films about it in the 70’s in grade school.

    If you were in grade school in the ’70s, you are way too young to remember when Americans littered freely. Back then, the word “biodegradable” was not in general use: a bit of googling suggests the term was not invented until around 1962, when the anti-littering campaign was first starting to have an effect.

    Before then, just toss it out the window, man!

  178. eah says:
    @Lot
    So you’re upset Texas is boycotting BDS?

    https://i.gyazo.com/aa69ad3773bc65fb97da1f595901d38e.png

    So you’re upset Texas is boycotting BDS?

    No — but I am occasionally mildly annoyed by dumb replies with incomprehensible memes.

    No business should be discriminated against simply because its owners donate to a church, the Salvation Army, or other religious organization.

    No governor who sought to ban businesses (and individuals: a speech pathologist named Bahia Amawi, who worked as a contract employee with Texas schools, sued over the anti-BDS language in her renewal contract) from engaging in legitimate ‘political speech’ like BDS activity should have written the above passage.

    • Replies: @Lot
    BDS advocates sanctions on Israel. So they want a Texas business that wants to do business in Israel to face legal consequences.

    Their complaint is thus: “I am being sanctioned/discriminated against for advocating sanctions/discrimination against Americans who do business in Israel.”

    Boohoo!
  179. @anonymous
    "Young people may not be aware that in the late ’50s, we routinely tossed any sort of trash out of the car window: from gum wrappers and fast-food trash to diapers. Why worry?"

    This is horseshit.

    I grew up in that era, I suspect you did not, or you would know that diapers, at least up until sometime in the '60's, were cloth, not disposable, fairly expensive, and people did not throw them away. Because they were cloth, not disposable, and fairly expensive.

    There have always been slobs in America, and there still are. I have no doubt that roadside littering has decreased since the that era. That does not mean that the behavior you describe was ever considered normal, or acceptable.

    By the way, if you had bothered to check Wikipedia, you would know that Pampers were introduced by P&G in 1961, right in the middle of the time period I am talking about.

    That matches my own memory: when my youngest brother was born in the mid-’60s, Pampers wer available and had been for a few years, but, sad to say for the general smell in our house, Mom insisted on cloth diapers.

    I’m not kidding: your memory really is failing you, you clearly have no inkling of this fact, and you do need to be checked out by a neurologist. They have meds now that can slow the process.

  180. @Twodees Partain
    You know, Dave, it would be easier to admit that you were full of shit when you wrote that first post than to be stuck having to defend it over and over. At least admit that the "we" you referred to was just you and your family and pals.

    Y’know, Tweedee, check out the Wikipedia article about “Pampers”: looking at your (brief) comment history, I see you make a habit of saying stupid things.

    But this time, young little thing, you’ve been pwned.

    Now, go back into the attic. Or, more likely, change your screen name (again).

  181. @PhysicistDave
    A few days ago, a friend who self-identifies as a far Leftist and who lives in San Francisco volunteered to me that she was disgusted by the filth on the streets and sidewalks of San Francisco: she correctly attributed it to homeless people.

    She went on, of course, to add that she did not blame the homeless people themselves for being homeless (I don't either -- there are larger driving problems here, ranging from housing restrictions to how we deal with mentally disturbed people and drug abusers).

    But, I think the destruction of public spaces in California's once beautiful cities is starting to become salient. A lot of things have gone wrong, and reality is starting to trump ideology.

    …she did not blame the homeless people themselves for being homeless (I don’t either — there are larger driving problems here, ranging from housing restrictions to how we deal with mentally disturbed people and drug abusers).

    Remember The Derb’s mnemonic: CATO 4321

    40% of the homeless are CRAZY (or “mentally disturbed,” if you prefer.)
    30% are ADDICTS (or “drug abusers.”)
    20% are TRAMPS (or hobo’s) who actually kind of like the homeless lifestyle.
    10% are OUT OF LUCK (usually temporarily).

  182. @HenryA
    Litter can be seen as the flora that grows in tragic dirt. When I visit and work in areas known for their diversity, the litter is everywhere, most noticeably the thousands of plastic bags stuck in chain link fences and trees. Like litter, poverty, low IQ and poor schools all seem to flourish in these places. When I travel through predominately White and Asian suburban towns, the litter disappears and I know that the magic dirt of these towns will also produce affluence, higher IQs and good schools. So perhaps we can stop Latino littering simply by moving them away from the tragic dirt.

    …the thousands of plastic bags stuck in chain link fences and trees.

    Yeah, the plastic bags stuck in trees – what’s up with that? It’s like the unmistakable signature of a s***-hole country. You’d think the authorities would want to do something about it, if only to attract more tourist dollars.

  183. @Reg Cæsar

    Try visiting, say, Turkey, or Nepal. There’s trash, & shit, all over the place, all the time. It’s the first thing you’ll notice when you get there.
     
    Well, the capital is Cat Man Doo, after all.

    Here's Cat Man's tribute to the city, with Alun Davies accompanying him on the Gitane:


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8420UW2_veM

    Well, Katmandu wasn’t quite that shitty.

  184. @Desiderius

    Rosie Gray is a fellow Jew, but less accomplished.
     
    The rest is commentary.

    Steve isn’t really mystified by the anger. Playing dumb has passed its sell-by date.

    Playing dumb has passed its sell-by date.

    Well, one can always hope. But I fear it’s more likely that we’re now entering another age where only those who play dumb will survive.

  185. @Lot
    “Try visiting, say, Turkey, or Nepal. ”

    I’d really rather not. Maybe after the Greek/Armenian reconquest I will visit Anatolia.

    As things stand, now, I’d also hesitate to revisit Turkey. Which is a pity, because, despite it all, the Roman ruins there rival anything in Italy, and the Greek ruins rival anything in Greece.

  186. @68W58
    Dr. Drew Pinsky talks a lot about this problem on his podcast with Adam Carolla and he favors expanded conservatorship. Give someone who cares about that person (if someone can be found) the legal means to take action. There are probably issues with that approach as well, but what we are doing right now obviously isn’t working and I can’t see how a bureaucratic approach could be as effective as giving loved ones a chance to help.

    I think that is what saved Britney Spears’ life.

  187. @Sailor gone native
    Davvero! Naples will always be my happy place . . . and I lived in Tuscany, too. To be in Napoli, and to embrace it, is to be truly alive.

    To be in Napoli, and to embrace it, is to be truly alive.

    No kidding. How does that go in Italian – Non è la verità?

    Despite everything – the filth, the corruption, the Camorra – there’s nothing else like it on God’s green Earth.

  188. @SFG
    I'm all for a Jewish/white gentile alliance, but if these guys are going to put Israel first (as it seems) it will all fall apart.

    Israel isn’t the problem with the alliance but rather strange Jewish proclivities towards communism or neurotic obsessions with their kin. Coupled with whites tendency to embrace the outgroup at the expense of their kin.

  189. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    Americans feel ownership of our public spaces, as do northern Europeans, Australians and some others.

    Shithole countries have no concern for public spaces, only private spaces. That's why they often put their actual shit in public spaces. Likewise, people who grew up in communist countries feel little connection for spaces owned by the state that oppresses them.

    Immigrants also overuse fields in public parks, playing soccer on them 12 hours a day in cities that won't bother them because of their special, document-free status that leads to more hassles for law officers than it's worth. They turn these lawns to dust and dirt fields.

    They barbecue for 10 hours at a time so that the parks people find the grills worn out at the end of a summer, as happened in Montgomery County, Maryland, a whitopia par excellence in the 90s that's now 30% Latino IIRC.

    I don't even dislike these people from Guatemala or El Salvador or wherever. They seem pleasant enough, whatever they're doing down there in the world below 5'4. I just don't want my home to turn into Guatemala or El Salvador.

    Shithole countries have no concern for public spaces, only private spaces.

    I think that’s the key point.

    Pretty much everybody cares about their private spaces, and prefers to keep them at least a little bit clean. Extending this concern to public spaces is mostly a NW European White thing.

  190. A friend did missionary work all across Africa and Asia. He said India has a level of trash and filth above everyone else.

  191. @TheMediumIsTheMassage
    The problem, of course, is that correlation IS causation when it comes to culture and race.

    …correlation IS causation when it comes to culture and race.

    Interesting – since it’s coming from you. Tell me more.

  192. @Jesse
    Because the Japanese, for better or for worse, won't accept him. They are aaaaallll about the racial purity.

    They have an ethnically Korean minority, often at least four generations deep, which they can't tell the difference between, physically or culturally. They still won't accept them. Outside of the more risqué parts of the society, they don't want them marrying into their families. Hell, they don't even like people with one not entirely Japanese parent.

    My old boss used to go there every year for martial arts training. He spoke the language and followed the customs. Japanese people wouldn't want him sitting next to them on public transport.

    Now, that might work for the Japanese. They can obviously run their own culture as they see fit. But, even if it was possible, would he really want to assimilate into that culture? It's obviously not intended for people like him.

    Yeah, basically. My Japanese wife identifies as a ” liberal” and ” Communist” but she is pretty skeptical about Koreans. This weekend, we travelled from our very cosmopolitan city to a rural place, and all the Japanese men in the rural place got out of the public bath when I got in. Almost simultaneously! (Truth be told, I get a little reactionary thrill when shit like that goes down.)

    Can anyone assimilate into such a racially-based culture? I doubt it!! I’ve read books about Will Adams and other modern migrants, but they don’t really fit in. Koreans and Chinese can if they can speak fkuently. It’s a racial thing.

    Shout out to iSteve commenters based in Japan!!

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    and all the Japanese men in the rural place got out of the public bath when I got in.
     
    Why did they do that? What explanation would they give to themselves, to another Japanese, or to a foreigner?

    Koreans and Chinese can if they can speak fkuently.
     
    So Japanese prefer Koreans and Chinese to Europeans?
  193. @Twodees Partain
    "to the surprise of noone."

    Noone wasn't surprised? I didn't even know he was there. Oh, wait. You meant no one. Nobody is one word. No one is two.

    It depends. Someday the ghost of David Lee Roth may lament “I ain’t got no body!”

    (We will chastise him for the double negative, of course.)

  194. @Anon
    The plastic waste that ends up in those rivers have their origin in places like the US. The US exports its plastic waste:

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2018/oct/05/huge-rise-us-plastic-waste-shipments-to-poor-countries-china-ban-thailand-malaysia-vietnam

    "“Instead of taking responsibility for their own waste, US companies are exploiting developing countries that lack the regulation to protect themselves,” said John Hocevar, Oceans campaign director for Greenpeace USA.

    The waste, some of which consists of household recycling produced in the US, includes single-use plastic bottles, plastic bags and food wrappings, said Hocevar. It can, however, contain toxic materials.

    “It’s a problem for the US and other developed countries to produce, often, toxic material which they can’t or won’t take care of themselves.”"

    They are “being exploited” how, exactly? Are a flotilla of Arleigh Burke class destroyers offshore threatening to demolish the capitols with cruise missiles if the ships full of trash are not admitted and unloaded?

    Aren’t the governments and landowners of these places voluntarily accepting the stuff for valid consideration? It may be somewhat meaningful to speak of an old lady or a young person being “exploited” by a contract which probably isn’t tje best deal for her, notwithstanding her legal agency to execute it, but if sovereign nations, presumably represented by the most powerful and popular of their people, cannot be responsible for their own decisions without being “exploited,” then who the Hell can?

    They “lack the regulation to protect themselves,” do they? Well Hell, regulations are not like, say, manganese or arable land – every nation on Earth, however poor or small, and where-ever located, has exactly as much access to them as every other nation. If these people “lack the regulations to protect themselves” they can create those regulations in an afternoon of legislation. Regulations can be made, in a very real sense, out of thin air and instantaneously, for goodness’ sake!

    It’s all more baloney implying only white people have agency.

    Take Iceland: tiny, not populous, no military power, very poor in resources. No one is “exploiting them” by shipping garbage to Iceland, and why? Because the Icelandic people simply say “no, thank you; we will not accept your garbage.” Well, that was easy.

    (Almost as easy as saying to an understandably irate man “Sir, I understand your frustration, and I do apologise, but I am expecting, and it is difficult for me to stand for long periods, so I had hoped it would not be too much bother to you and others if I used the express check-out even though I have a few more items than the limit.” Which reply would almost certainly and immediately resolve the situation.)

  195. @Thomas
    I guess aside from Wax’s comments, the other kerfluffle out of this conference was Sen. Josh Hawley using the word “cosmopolitan” and sending everyone to the fainting couch.

    https://twitter.com/billkristol/status/1151467084095922176

    Much edgy! I guess we’re all supposed to squeal like little girls and go “OMG! I love Zionism now!” Actually kind of clever, building this sort of pro-wrestling-style fake controversy in your fake nationalist AstroTurf operation. Definitely a step up from the “Intellectual Dark Web” bad boys who didn’t sell.

    Wait, didn’t Kristol (The Whistle) already delete his Twitter account? What neocon am I thinking of then?

  196. the famous “Crying Indian” TV commercial in 1971

    He was in my old neighborhood.

  197. @Anonymous
    Perhaps. But I think Latinos also just like painting murals on things. Some of these paintings are somewhat garish to us, and they can become weathered and shabby quickly, but it’s not always, or even mostly, gang signals.

    Sometimes markers are just to show that a particular group controls a particular place.

    Story:
    At one point I’d moved to Arlington, VA. The place was, at the time, largely government buildings with offices and either office worker lunch places or restaurants suitable for the executives meeting off-site.
    OK, so National Public Radio NPR came in. At the same time, an NPR associated outfit painted Latin American style murals under the local overpass _and installed closed circuit TV cameras to catch anybody trying to paint them over_. On top of that, the put garish paper mache mock aircraft (Latin American festival style) over pretty much the entire area. As a final gesture, one morning as I walked to work, two NPR guys, mid 30s, came out to the commuter traffic bearing one way road _and skateboarded against traffic_.
    They were just marking their territory. I don’t think NPR was responsible for the urine smell in oneof the overpasses near the NPR offices, but it wouldn’t surprise me much. Literal minded bunch, and not very mature.

    Counterinsurgency

  198. @eah
    So you’re upset Texas is boycotting BDS?

    No -- but I am occasionally mildly annoyed by dumb replies with incomprehensible memes.

    No business should be discriminated against simply because its owners donate to a church, the Salvation Army, or other religious organization.

    No governor who sought to ban businesses (and individuals: a speech pathologist named Bahia Amawi, who worked as a contract employee with Texas schools, sued over the anti-BDS language in her renewal contract) from engaging in legitimate 'political speech' like BDS activity should have written the above passage.

    BDS advocates sanctions on Israel. So they want a Texas business that wants to do business in Israel to face legal consequences.

    Their complaint is thus: “I am being sanctioned/discriminated against for advocating sanctions/discrimination against Americans who do business in Israel.”

    Boohoo!

  199. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @Chrisnonymous
    Yeah, basically. My Japanese wife identifies as a " liberal" and " Communist" but she is pretty skeptical about Koreans. This weekend, we travelled from our very cosmopolitan city to a rural place, and all the Japanese men in the rural place got out of the public bath when I got in. Almost simultaneously! (Truth be told, I get a little reactionary thrill when shit like that goes down.)

    Can anyone assimilate into such a racially-based culture? I doubt it!! I've read books about Will Adams and other modern migrants, but they don't really fit in. Koreans and Chinese can if they can speak fkuently. It's a racial thing.

    Shout out to iSteve commenters based in Japan!!

    and all the Japanese men in the rural place got out of the public bath when I got in.

    Why did they do that? What explanation would they give to themselves, to another Japanese, or to a foreigner?

    Koreans and Chinese can if they can speak fkuently.

    So Japanese prefer Koreans and Chinese to Europeans?

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    They don't need an explanation. It's their country, and they reacted according to their intuitions. Great! In the USA, I used to talk to blacks and mentally retarded people just because I felt guilty about their being black/retarded. Does that make me good? By no means! They shouldn't stay in the bath to sooth their guilt, and they don't need to explain why the presence of a foreign object makes them uncomfortable in a place designed to be intimate and relaxing.

    No, Japanese can't identify Koreans and Chinese if they can speak Japanese fluently. (The opposite is, I suspect, not true, for reasons I shan't go in to here.)
  200. @Reg Cæsar

    Try visiting, say, Turkey, or Nepal. There’s trash, & shit, all over the place, all the time. It’s the first thing you’ll notice when you get there.
     
    Well, the capital is Cat Man Doo, after all.

    Here's Cat Man's tribute to the city, with Alun Davies accompanying him on the Gitane:


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8420UW2_veM

    There will only ever be one Catman, and he is (or at least was) a hot mess.

  201. @Anonymous

    and all the Japanese men in the rural place got out of the public bath when I got in.
     
    Why did they do that? What explanation would they give to themselves, to another Japanese, or to a foreigner?

    Koreans and Chinese can if they can speak fkuently.
     
    So Japanese prefer Koreans and Chinese to Europeans?

    They don’t need an explanation. It’s their country, and they reacted according to their intuitions. Great! In the USA, I used to talk to blacks and mentally retarded people just because I felt guilty about their being black/retarded. Does that make me good? By no means! They shouldn’t stay in the bath to sooth their guilt, and they don’t need to explain why the presence of a foreign object makes them uncomfortable in a place designed to be intimate and relaxing.

    No, Japanese can’t identify Koreans and Chinese if they can speak Japanese fluently. (The opposite is, I suspect, not true, for reasons I shan’t go in to here.)

  202. Anonymous[219] • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG
    Go back to 1950 for a second. The Soviet Union was definitely interested in spreading Communism, and if Europe had gone commie it's not entirely impossible there would be missiles in France aimed at us now or, God forbid, German Communists running a police state with German efficiency rather than Russian. (Just because Russians can't run a socialist state doesn't mean Germans couldn't.)

    There was a whole neocon/paleocon confluence of interests that appeared when the Soviet Union turned on Israel (to support anticolonialist Arabs against Western Europe) that dissolved after 1989 and, with the neocons running things, got us into Iraq. So--it worked for 40 years.

    Buckley's concern was less being nice to Jews than the unpalatability of antisemitism (even at the vague Mencken level) so soon after Hitler. There were still people who had fought WW2 and seen the camps, after all. (Yeah, they were real. It doesn't excuse second-wave feminism or the Iraq Attaq, but what happened happened.) Any political movement, at least in the USA with its big two-party system and centrist tendencies, has to differentiate itself from its extremists on the same side--you saw this during the Cold War with liberal anticommunism. America moves slowly.

    Also, I have stopped caring about the Middle East after Iraq, but I'm not sure we really want China overrunning Japan and South Korea.

    There were still people who had fought WW2 and seen the camps, after all. (Yeah, they were real. It doesn’t excuse second-wave feminism or the Iraq Attaq, but what happened happened.)

    No American soldiers saw a “death camp.” All of the storied death camps happened to end up behind the Iron Curtain.

  203. Latino littering is far from the biggest or most dangerous problem facing the country, but it is a highly tangible quality-of-life issue many voters can see with their own eyes every single day. I live in a neighborhood full of (mostly Caribbean) Latinos, and I long ago gave up trying to discard all the debris that makes its way into the yard. I clean it up, and within 48 hours it looks like a garbage dump again. It’s mostly convenience-store junk food wrappers (with a few scratch tickets and cigarette boxes thrown in), so I’m sure these immigrants are doing wonders for America’s obesity rates and healthcare costs, too. I’m sure I’ll never hear a local politician utter a word about it, though.

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