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Why Did the Taliban Win? Because They Live There
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Here’s a pretty good article from American Affairs last year:

Data-Driven Defeat: Information versus Interests in Afghanistan
by Jacob Siegel

In the Spring of 2012, my battalion arrived in western Afghanistan as the Obama troop surge, meant to break the Taliban, drew to a close. The Taliban remained unbroken, but our new mission was training and assisting the Afghan security forces. Like all supposed changes in policy for Afghanistan, this one amounted to less than advertised. Our “train-and-assist” phase of the war coexisted with a decade of nation-building programs, counterterrorist operations, on­going counterinsurgency efforts, and assorted other State Department and government-backed nonprofit initiatives—which, together, pulled in many directions and arrived nowhere. The state of confusion ate at me for months until, finally, I had a eureka moment when we started getting orders to locate equipment left behind by other units and pack it off to shipping yards.

Then I understood: the generals’ metrics of success for the Afghan security forces we were assigned to train were only aspirational. The Afghans would never meet them; that was why we were leaving. …

 
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  1. I think what’s even more interesting about all this is that despite having 20 years to do it, the modern neoliberal system was incapable of forming a functional government. That the last president of Afghanistan was a World Bank guy says it all. (If you were serious about having a viable non-Taliban state you’d put the popular guy incharge but if your instinct is to constantly undermine societies, you put the World Bank guy in there)

    Because ultimately neoliberalism is about eschewing logic such as ‘because we live here’ or ‘because he is my kin’ or really accepting that nobody will die for Coca Cola. It’s about leaving societies open to digestion from global capital. Turns out there is no amount of money in your bank account that can make you immune to bullet-through-head-itis. The triumph of neoliberalism is the triumph of ‘right wing’ economics (Read, individualist economics) and ‘left wing’ social politics (Read, individualist social policies) both of which stem from the wealthy elite since they remove any shackles of limits or responsibility on them.

    The Taliban are essentially the anti-lastmen.

    I genuinely think that the people running the US now are so protected from their self-serving narratives that everyone else should just submit to their desires that it sometimes surprises them when they don’t, they don’t even comprehend why they do it, don’t they know that perusing their interests is against their interests! And people like that are very dangerous, they don’t know when they need to negotiate, the US should have negotiated with the Taliban to give them autonomy in the tribal highlands and left something like a UN force to protect the lowlands. Instead it set about an impossible task of stopping the Taliban without realising that there is no ‘Taliban’ it’s just the tribal people in the uplands. ‘Stopping’ them required genocide. Just like Vietnam.

    • Thanks: Anonymous Jew, Mike Tre
    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Altai


    the modern neoliberal system was incapable of forming a functional government.
     
    They can't do it in America, what's special about Afghanistan?
    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Altai

    Agreed. But it is something, I guess, ineradicable. If we go to the basics, it boils down to how do you perceive the world & what do you want from it

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31rUZcduvnL._SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_FMwebp_.jpg

    http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=EA5D6D9D1B91A93220F9D93C88ECC5D4

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31u-tUZubEL._SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_FMwebp_.jpg

    http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=6DD04D460DCC98C03BDDB73D6A610FA7

    , @Jack D
    @Altai


    the US should have negotiated with the Taliban
     
    The US did negotiate with the Taliban but it couldn't make a deal because the Taliban weren't ultimately interested in making a deal. They were interested in winning the war. That's the best "deal" of all - war is diplomacy by other means. If I am winning the poker game and am going to take all the chips if I just keep playing for a little while longer, what kind of "deal" is it if you offer me half the chips?

    The Taliban won the war because they wanted it more than the other side and they fought for it and were able to fight for it. All the nice NGO ladies and lady schoolteachers and so on wanted a modern Afghanistan but they couldn't find enough Afghan men who were willing and able to fight and die for their vision of Afghanistan as a modern democracy. Dying for Allah is one thing. Dying for the World Wildlife Fund or something - no way.

    TBH, that part of the world is really short on modern democracies (although Pakistan is somewhat democratic, the military really runs in more than the nominal elected leaders). If Afghanistan had been a more ethnically uniform place like Tajikistan we could have found some non-Islamist tough guy to be the dictator and kick everyone's ass, including the Taliban. But it's not - the best we could have hoped for was to back a bunch of regional ethnic warlords but these guys are unlovable (for good reasons) and no one in Washington was really excited about such a plan when you could talk about schools for girls and stuff like that instead.

    Meanwhile, all these nice NGO ladies and lady school teachers and stuff that we left behind in Kabul are literally in mortal danger. The Taliban is not above killing people like this. The only question is how many will die. Aside from feeling sorry for them, this is bad for American interests because it sends a message to American allies in other countries that when the shit hits the fan the US will not protect you. This is not a message you want to send to your allies.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @Johann Ricke, @Bizarro World Observer, @Bert, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Anonymous, @Houston 1992

    , @donut
    @Altai

    @Bill Jones beat me to it . I think we're now at the point where the collapse is going to accelerate very quickly now . The only "enemies" our leaders can fight and prevail over are imaginary ones . Talking to you Whitey .

    , @J.Ross
    @Altai

    Agree, and to this point: You remember Biden's man Jefferson? Minimally Re-aninated Corpse Joseph Biden put Jefferson in charge of sweeping up at the Pentagon. Jefferson has just confirmed that he will not resign. We are actually starting to see anti-Biden and anti-Harris stories in mainstream lyingpress outlets.
    Question: would Nu-Afghanistan still have failed, or as quickly and completely, without the Merkelboner? Nu-Afghanistan was probably always doomed, but it was (redundantly, how German) specifically murdered by Merkel. The Taliban were never going to leave. The one hope Nu-Afghanistan ever had to be a globohomo society left the country in the Gucci bags of all those "refugees" welcomed into Europe.

    , @Kratoklastes
    @Altai


    I genuinely think that the people running the US now are so protected from their self-serving narratives that everyone else should just submit to their desires that it sometimes surprises them when they don’t, they don’t even comprehend why they do it, don’t they know that [pursuing ?] their interests is against their interests
     
    If you really want to see someone scratching their head, James Thompson's latest brain-fart (elsewhere on this site) really shows someone fumbling about in the dark with a blindfold on and a carrot up their arse: selon Thompson, the Taliban won because Afghani are too stupid to be trained.

    Seriously. That passes for logic in the modern Western psychosophaster.

    So Thompson's 'thesis' (to the extent that something that incoherent deserves to be treated epistemically) is that the Graveyard of Empires is full of people too stupid to tie their own shoelaces... when over the last two centuries they have comprehensively defeated the British Empire, the Soviet Empire, and now the US Death Machine.

    For fuck's sake.

    As someone with a brain not infected with psychobabble Retardium pointed out recently: the Taliban madrassas in Pakistan are more selective than the US Ivies.

    You and I might think that what they were studying is primitive bullshit, but the people doing it were in the top percent or so of their populations... and so the Taliban leadership can be expected to be genuinely a cognitive élite.
  2. The scramble for Kabul is over.

    The scramble for the West continues.

    These teenage boys aren’t fleeing death, they are trying to see if they can file a spurious asylum claim. As evidenced by the laughing and choosing the most dangerous thing they could possibly do in their life which resulted in a few deaths almost immediately.

    • Agree: Charon, Hangnail Hans
    • Replies: @Polistra
    @Altai

    Exactly. These images have implications for the USA (and Europe) far beyond what's happening in Kabul today. How many will understand that?

    https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/08/Afghanistan4.gif

    Beyond these thousands, there will be millions. Beyond that, billions.

    Replies: @donut

    , @Anonymous
    @Altai

    Assuming those planes aren't heading to the US, some of those boys may make it.

    I applaud them.

    Not for "escaping" or "desiring freedom" or some bullhooey like that but for having fun and living to tell about it.

    The West has too many laws and has too much fun with their "darwin award" laugheries and such.

    I love those boys who gave it a go and hope that a couple of them make it.

    I watched The Man Who Would Be King on Steve's suggestion and positively loved it. It was no tragedy but a celebration of the life and glorious death of A Great Man. There are no morals in the tale, as there aren't in Huckleberry Finn.

    They teach you Huckleberry Finn in school as a preventative vaccine against finding the scroll later in life and going off on similar adventures of your own.

    Twain foresaw this danger and attempted - unsuccessful - to stave it off by granting his opening page of the book to the following few lines.


    NOTICE
    Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot.

    By order of the author,
    Per G.G., Chief of Ordnance
     

    People laughing at those boys or mourning them or attributing their deaths to the moral failures of this or that group of people have no life left in them and are but surplus meat farting into the ozone.

    Thise brave awesome boys however are humanity's pride and I, for one, celebrate them.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @SteveRogers42, @SteveRogers42

    , @Jack D
    @Altai


    These teenage boys aren’t fleeing death, they are trying to see if they can file a spurious asylum claim.
     
    Given the extremely, incredibly high risks involved in clinging to the outside of a jet, I would say that the former is more likely. Maybe these were guys who had collaborated with the Americans and they knew that the Taliban was going to chop their heads off when they caught up with them, so they had nothing left to lose.

    OTOH, these people looked like inbred goat herders - maybe they thought that clinging to a jet was like hitching a ride on the bumper of a jingle truck:

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BWX63Yk2vrw/WsSLXKSx8II/AAAAAAABWf0/vIdCx3fe7yIjv5lmOM2ajYc2X9rXXH1CQCHMYCw/pakistan-jingle-trucks-26?imgmax=1600

    Replies: @OracleY2K

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Altai


    These teenage boys aren’t fleeing death, they are trying to see if they can file a spurious asylum claim.
     
    On the other hand, there are thousands of teenage boys who might have had a less-than-spurious asylum claim. But life just got better for them.

    Replies: @Pericles

    , @Anonymous
    @Altai

    Gotta say, this was my slightly slow own reaction to the liberal feminine NPC push today about huddled masses yearning to breathe/ride free (“He didn’t fly so good”):

    Isn’t holding onto the outside of a plane *after lift-off* kind of bone-headed as a last act? Can I say this ought not to be valorized, generally speaking? I mean, when someone high on bath salts jumps into a tank of pirhanas, that’s tragic too, but we must admit it is also unfortunately funny at the same time.

    At the end of “The Predator” reboot a guy jumps into a jet turbine whilst firing a gun at it and it was meta kino in this vein

    Replies: @What am I doing her

    , @Jack Armstrong
    @Altai

    Crisis actors and/or photoshop.

    , @Goddard
    @Altai


    The scramble for the West continues.
     
    Remember, America is not a nation, the posterity to whom the Founders bequeathed their enterprise; America is rather an idea. Because America is an idea, anyone can be American.

    "Invade the world" may have received a momentary jolt, but "invite the world" more operable than ever.

  3. I don’t understand. Don’t the Afghans who hated the Taliban live there, too?

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Tono Bungay

    Neither do I. Southerners lived in the The South in 1860.

    , @Wency
    @Tono Bungay

    Clearly they didn't hate the Taliban nearly as much as the Taliban hates Globohomo.

  4. “Why Did the Taliban Win? Because They Live There”

    Why didn’t the Taliban conquer Afghanistan in the 90s? I remember the name General Dostum from that period. Last week he reappeared as a fat old man. Then there was a video of the Taliban in his Villa sitting on his chair and playing with the light switches.

    No mention in any of the analyses I have seen mention the amount of money siphoned off into Northern Virginia. While the NATO/US top line spending number was enormous, once you consider the leakage, the Taliban just outspent the US/NATO.

    Far from being isolated the Taliban probably had lots of covert support from the other -stan countries and China Russia Iran.

    • Replies: @Kratoklastes
    @George


    Far from being isolated the Taliban probably had lots of covert support from the other -stan countries and China Russia Iran.
     
    Gay cope.

    The US got beat. By its former pets (the US armed, trained and funded the mujaheddin during the 80s in order to win a pissing contest against the Soviets).

    The US was always going to get beat - unless it flat-out committed genocide, which would be a hard sell to the punters and the 'global community'.

    Everyone who tries to occupy Afghanistan, gets beat.

    That's why the fucking place is called "The Graveyard of Empires".

    More to the point: everybody knows that insurgents always win because all they have to do is keep a low-lethality presence (and they're better placed to develop networks, given that it's their home ground). IEDs FTW.

    Everybody understands 4G war nowadays - they teach the basic theory at West Point, for fuck's sake. William S Lind used to teach his stuff, and I think John Robb also had a stint lecturing.

    The Viet Cong didn't need Chinese or Soviet support (although they did have some) either: as Tet showed, they were everywhere. The US spent massive resources trying to convince its own population that its generals knew what the fuck they were doing - almost all of it a gigantic gallimaufry of lies.

    Anyhow... let's hope that the next strategic fuckup by the US military, winds up being its last.

    Go ahead - take on China or Russia. Nothing would please me more than to be alive for the end of the 'CBG Era' (the 'Battleship Era' ended in WWII).

    Replies: @Hibernian

  5. anonymous[139] • Disclaimer says:

    This chaotic last minute scramble shows a huge level of incompetence. They could easily have seen what was coming and made plans for an orderly exit. What’s the final tally in dead and wounded US servicemen, their future medical costs, cost to the taxpayers? How many Afghans killed, maimed, widowed, orphaned, turned into refugees? Where are all the smart people who told us how it could be done? How many got rich through the war business? Twenty years folded up in just weeks like a house of cards.

    • Replies: @aj54
    @anonymous

    Privatize the profits, publicize the costs. How much did Cheney make? the value of Halliburton skyrocketed the moment the Supreme Court declared W the winner of the election. THAT is the only thing they care about.

  6. China, Iran, Pakistan and Russia are laughing at America now, and deservedly so.
    We’ll see how long that lasts. There is now a destabilized, radicalized country with billions of dollars of high tech US weapons now sitting on their border (or nearby in the case of Russia.)

    Imagine if we had to deal with Mexican cartels armed with Apache helicopters, Abrams tanks and 105 mm howitzers. That’s the new reality for Afghanistan’s neighbors.

    • Disagree: Skyler the Weird, Bill Jones
    • Replies: @Dennis Dale
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    No. The Taliban has no interest in or capability for invading other countries.
    This is cope--pointless cope. I can relate. I once loved the country too, and this would have hurt very badly then, and I would have hated the glee with which some are greeting it, and would have wished they would soon eat their words.
    But love of a country is a funny thing...

    Replies: @Alfa158, @Jack D

    , @Alexander Turok
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    Lack of ammo and spare parts will whittle down the utility of their new toys quickly, if they can even figure out how to use them.

  7. @Altai
    The scramble for Kabul is over.

    The scramble for the West continues.

    https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1427201464728961025

    https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1427212572575637504

    These teenage boys aren't fleeing death, they are trying to see if they can file a spurious asylum claim. As evidenced by the laughing and choosing the most dangerous thing they could possibly do in their life which resulted in a few deaths almost immediately.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Jack Armstrong, @Goddard

    Exactly. These images have implications for the USA (and Europe) far beyond what’s happening in Kabul today. How many will understand that?

    Beyond these thousands, there will be millions. Beyond that, billions.

    • Agree: Charon
    • Replies: @donut
    @Polistra

    Cargo Cult .

  8. • Agree: SteveRogers42
    • Replies: @Altai
    @Desiderius

    The Taliban were willing to hand over Bin Laden who was only there as a relic of the US backed campaign against the Soviets, this offer was refused. Possibly because it represented some conditions and Bush admin wanted to look tough, possibly because they didn't yet (Or have ever) have any good evidence that Bin Laden did it (Which was the only demand) and possibly because they wanted war, they wanted bodies as 'revenge' for 9/11 and possibly because they wanted the war so as to prepare the public and PR firms for a 'war on terror' that extended to Iraq. And maybe some of all of these. (Afghanistan having a border with Iran that straddled a non-Persian people with ethnic militia and separatist desires was probably a nice bonus)

    The neocons wanted to variously slowly build up to a US military attack on Iraq via the campaign in Afghanistan, build up their guy Bush and sate their own and others desire for revenge, even if it was against people who had nothing to do with 9/11. And, Eric Erickson, being a neocon lackey, knows this.

    Though there are apparently leaked memos from Rumsfeld very early on about him not wanting them to 'nation build' but as the events show, how do you simultaneously 'oust' the Taliban and not occupy the country? At least it was theoretically possible to do in Iraq to kill Sadam and fracture the country so it no longer presented a possible check on Israel but how do you do that in Afghanistan? We see now you apparently can't.

    All of this is a moot point or will become one as the lack of any apparent fretting over the bodies the US has produced in Afghanistan among the cosmopolitan elite makes clear, Afghan lives don't matter. (Unless they can be brought to the US in the demographic war, then you'll see much fretting.)

    Replies: @for-the-record, @Jack D

    , @AnotherDad
    @Desiderius


    Wouldn’t it have been easier to not let them come here?
     
    The pithiest statement of the stupidity behind this whole effort.

    Bush reacted to 911 by adding loving Muzzies along with his long time love of Mexicans. And since they had "issues", venturing out to "fix" their world.

    Instead of the obvious, simple and humane approach: "Hey these people and us are oil and water, we need to keep 'em the hell outta the West."

    911 was a great time to re-assess all the minoritarian stupidity of our age, and realize "separate nations for separate peoples" is a great idea.

    We needed a responsible nationalist ... but we had Bush.

    Replies: @SteveRogers42

    , @Gabe Ruth
    @Desiderius

    How can you say that line with a straight face in the current year? I know he's a cuck's cuck, but have some self respect.

  9. Why Did the Taliban Win? Because They Live There

    Hmm, we live here, and yet …

    … somehow we’re not winning.

    • Thanks: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @Hangnail Hans
    @Almost Missouri

    Because They Live There
     

    From my post so many days ago.
    Look who the WSJ saw fit to quote:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/how-will-the-press-spin-thursdays-census-announcement-of-a-declining-number-of-whites/#comment-4835756

    Washington D.C. is full of such "institutes".
    Where does all their money come from?

    , @Intelligent Dasein
    @Almost Missouri

    The obvious implication here is that the US can do nothing. It is corrupt and incompetent almost beyond belief. If only 1 in 300 Americans draw the moral, that is still over 1 million people who just realized that the empire is a paper tiger.

  10. And yet…young Native Born White American Working Class Males have to compete with young Legal Immigrant Chinese Males and young Hindu Males for the scarce Living and Breeding Space(affordable family formation issue) of America…no wonder the White Population of America is collapsing….

  11. I’d guess the gear left behind by the US will be aimed at Iran. Taliban are no friends of the Tehran people.

    So anyway, maybe this was the one right move that Biden made in his entire political life. Drawing a line under the US occupation of Afghanistan. He’ll get no credit for actually pulling the plug.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    @Wokechoke

    You can tell Biden actually did the right thing by the way the usual MSM suspects are so outraged by our withdrawal.

    Replies: @Jtgw

    , @Pericles
    @Wokechoke

    It's a bit odd that the DoD just obeyed the President-Legit though. I mean, they basically told Trump to pound sand when he gave the order to withdraw last year. Perhaps there is some consolation activity coming up.

  12. Pinsen’s Twitter the best there is.

    • Replies: @obwandiyag
    @Desiderius

    Yes, but, if they had kept the trillions they spent in Afghanistan here at home, they wouldn't have spent it on you anyhow--because that would be socialism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

  13. Any of you really shocked by the unfolding chaos? I can’t imagine there’s even one American charged with actually training Afghan troops who is even slightly surprised by this.

    I sense in a lot of right wing commentary an impulse to blame Dementia Joe for this Saigon-in-1975 replay- I’m not inclined to defend the guy myself, but, unless we were planning on staying another 20 years this was inevitable. GW made the mess, and Barry kept it going. I leave out the Donald, as I think he was trying to figure a way out. At least he didn’t expand our military footprint. We should have left in early 2002.

    BTW- former head of Central Command (and St. Paul’s own) Gen. Joe Votel was on NPR this morning doing his best Ralph Kramden/Quentin McHale “hammana hammana hammana….”

    The current crop of senior officers make the guys who ran the Vietnam War look like Pattons and MacArthurs.

    The donkeys, as General Smuts described the upper echelons of the British Army during the Boer War, knew this would happen. It’s ok, though, they have their defense contractor jobs and think tank sinecures to fall back on. Too bad families that had their fathers, brothers, and sons killed and wounded don’t have the same fall back position.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Thanks: Bill Jones
    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Ganderson

    Yes, the right-wing attack on Biden is dumb. The reconquest by the Taliban should be no surprise, and so nobody should be "blamed" for it. On the other hand, the pullout seems to have been seriously mishandled. But, like the mishandling of pandemic response, that is really a bureaucratic failing. The people who should be taking the heat for this are the "smart people" at State and in the uppee ranks of the military.

    Replies: @Ganderson

    , @SteveRogers42
    @Ganderson

    This whole episode makes Vietnam look like a miracle of good planning and sound judgment.

  14. Anonymous[177] • Disclaimer says:
    @Altai
    The scramble for Kabul is over.

    The scramble for the West continues.

    https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1427201464728961025

    https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1427212572575637504

    These teenage boys aren't fleeing death, they are trying to see if they can file a spurious asylum claim. As evidenced by the laughing and choosing the most dangerous thing they could possibly do in their life which resulted in a few deaths almost immediately.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Jack Armstrong, @Goddard

    Assuming those planes aren’t heading to the US, some of those boys may make it.

    I applaud them.

    Not for “escaping” or “desiring freedom” or some bullhooey like that but for having fun and living to tell about it.

    The West has too many laws and has too much fun with their “darwin award” laugheries and such.

    I love those boys who gave it a go and hope that a couple of them make it.

    I watched The Man Who Would Be King on Steve’s suggestion and positively loved it. It was no tragedy but a celebration of the life and glorious death of A Great Man. There are no morals in the tale, as there aren’t in Huckleberry Finn.

    They teach you Huckleberry Finn in school as a preventative vaccine against finding the scroll later in life and going off on similar adventures of your own.

    Twain foresaw this danger and attempted – unsuccessful – to stave it off by granting his opening page of the book to the following few lines.

    NOTICE
    Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot.

    By order of the author,
    Per G.G., Chief of Ordnance

    People laughing at those boys or mourning them or attributing their deaths to the moral failures of this or that group of people have no life left in them and are but surplus meat farting into the ozone.

    Thise brave awesome boys however are humanity’s pride and I, for one, celebrate them.

    • Thanks: Kjr
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Anonymous

    Living free like a savage up and down the Mississippi River is one thing. Thinking you are going to get to a destination in one piece by holing up in the gear bay is just insanely stupid. What do they think, there's a Delta Sky Club lounge up in there? There are gear overheat loops and a place for the wheels - no space for some reckless moron.

    I understand your point about young boys and real freedom, but no, this is suicidal behavior.

    Replies: @Technite78, @AnonymousOP

    , @SteveRogers42
    @Anonymous

    Average IQ in Afghanistan = 84.

    And half of them are dumber than that.

    , @SteveRogers42
    @Anonymous

    It would be even more impressive if these military-age males had actually -- you know -- stood and fought.

  15. I’m astonished by the apparent effort to bring the Afghans who worked as translators etc to “safety” in the US.

    Does anybody really believe that the US has a shortage of people who will sell out their country for a couple of bucks?

    • LOL: Bill, Kylie
    • Replies: @Commentator Mike
    @Bill Jones

    Soon America will be flooded with Afghan "translators" most of whom don't speak any English.

    Replies: @Farenheit, @Gordo

  16. @Altai
    I think what's even more interesting about all this is that despite having 20 years to do it, the modern neoliberal system was incapable of forming a functional government. That the last president of Afghanistan was a World Bank guy says it all. (If you were serious about having a viable non-Taliban state you'd put the popular guy incharge but if your instinct is to constantly undermine societies, you put the World Bank guy in there)

    Because ultimately neoliberalism is about eschewing logic such as 'because we live here' or 'because he is my kin' or really accepting that nobody will die for Coca Cola. It's about leaving societies open to digestion from global capital. Turns out there is no amount of money in your bank account that can make you immune to bullet-through-head-itis. The triumph of neoliberalism is the triumph of 'right wing' economics (Read, individualist economics) and 'left wing' social politics (Read, individualist social policies) both of which stem from the wealthy elite since they remove any shackles of limits or responsibility on them.

    The Taliban are essentially the anti-lastmen.

    I genuinely think that the people running the US now are so protected from their self-serving narratives that everyone else should just submit to their desires that it sometimes surprises them when they don't, they don't even comprehend why they do it, don't they know that perusing their interests is against their interests! And people like that are very dangerous, they don't know when they need to negotiate, the US should have negotiated with the Taliban to give them autonomy in the tribal highlands and left something like a UN force to protect the lowlands. Instead it set about an impossible task of stopping the Taliban without realising that there is no 'Taliban' it's just the tribal people in the uplands. 'Stopping' them required genocide. Just like Vietnam.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Bardon Kaldian, @Jack D, @donut, @J.Ross, @Kratoklastes

    the modern neoliberal system was incapable of forming a functional government.

    They can’t do it in America, what’s special about Afghanistan?

    • Agree: Harry Baldwin
  17. Joe Biden does Baghdad Bob:

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Morton's toes


    This may become the most infamous — and devastating — press conference ever held by an American President.
     
    If it leads to President Harris, yes!

    And do you see any parallels between this withdrawal and what happened in Vietnam?
     
    Yes. Joe Biden was in office at the time.

    His elder Senate colleagues Dole and Buckley (b. 1923) are still with us-- and likely more coherent-- but retired long ago.

    , @Peter Akuleyev
    @Morton's toes

    Ha! 5 to one odds no one in America will give a shit about Afghanistan 6 months from now. Biden has actually played this exactly right so far - an American withdrawal with no American casualties is the way to do it. I know the MSM is frothing at the mouth for us to exchange 1000 American lives to allow another 100,000 Afghan men to come live with us, but I don't think most American voters feel the same way.

    Replies: @Houston 1992, @J.Ross

  18. Aren’t the people who wanted us to stay there and blow another few trillion so bad they ousted their own President the ones not paying attention?

  19. Then I understood: the generals’ metrics of success for the Afghan security forces we were assigned to train were only aspirational.

    Average Afghan IQ = about 84 = the lowest cut-off point for enlisting in the US military.

    Why Did the Taliban Win? Because They Live There

    The anti-Taliban also live there, so why didn’t they also win?

    My guess is that it’s because the Taliban is more popular than the anti-Taliban, and that this is just an exercise in perverted democracy.

    • Replies: @Bill
    @Flemur

    One side rapes boys kind of a lot. Hint: it's our side.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  20. The Taliban is funded by Pakistan. Only India needs to worry.

  21. @Altai
    I think what's even more interesting about all this is that despite having 20 years to do it, the modern neoliberal system was incapable of forming a functional government. That the last president of Afghanistan was a World Bank guy says it all. (If you were serious about having a viable non-Taliban state you'd put the popular guy incharge but if your instinct is to constantly undermine societies, you put the World Bank guy in there)

    Because ultimately neoliberalism is about eschewing logic such as 'because we live here' or 'because he is my kin' or really accepting that nobody will die for Coca Cola. It's about leaving societies open to digestion from global capital. Turns out there is no amount of money in your bank account that can make you immune to bullet-through-head-itis. The triumph of neoliberalism is the triumph of 'right wing' economics (Read, individualist economics) and 'left wing' social politics (Read, individualist social policies) both of which stem from the wealthy elite since they remove any shackles of limits or responsibility on them.

    The Taliban are essentially the anti-lastmen.

    I genuinely think that the people running the US now are so protected from their self-serving narratives that everyone else should just submit to their desires that it sometimes surprises them when they don't, they don't even comprehend why they do it, don't they know that perusing their interests is against their interests! And people like that are very dangerous, they don't know when they need to negotiate, the US should have negotiated with the Taliban to give them autonomy in the tribal highlands and left something like a UN force to protect the lowlands. Instead it set about an impossible task of stopping the Taliban without realising that there is no 'Taliban' it's just the tribal people in the uplands. 'Stopping' them required genocide. Just like Vietnam.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Bardon Kaldian, @Jack D, @donut, @J.Ross, @Kratoklastes

    Agreed. But it is something, I guess, ineradicable. If we go to the basics, it boils down to how do you perceive the world & what do you want from it

    http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=EA5D6D9D1B91A93220F9D93C88ECC5D4

    http://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=6DD04D460DCC98C03BDDB73D6A610FA7

  22. There is going to be quite a refugee crisis now as thousands of United States diplomats will be fleeing Afghanistan and wanting to return to the already overcrowded United States which is teeming with masses.

    You gotta feel sorry for the Afghani people though. Perhaps the US government can issue an official apology on our behalf. “Sorry, Afghanistan! See you at the next Olympics.”

    In other news, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle will be heading a diplomatic mission to Kabul to negotiate a Netflix deal with the Taliban.

    • LOL: George
  23. @Almost Missouri

    Why Did the Taliban Win? Because They Live There
     
    Hmm, we live here, and yet ...

    ... somehow we're not winning.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @Intelligent Dasein

    Because They Live There

    From my post so many days ago.
    Look who the WSJ saw fit to quote:

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/how-will-the-press-spin-thursdays-census-announcement-of-a-declining-number-of-whites/#comment-4835756

    Washington D.C. is full of such “institutes”.
    Where does all their money come from?

  24. @Altai
    I think what's even more interesting about all this is that despite having 20 years to do it, the modern neoliberal system was incapable of forming a functional government. That the last president of Afghanistan was a World Bank guy says it all. (If you were serious about having a viable non-Taliban state you'd put the popular guy incharge but if your instinct is to constantly undermine societies, you put the World Bank guy in there)

    Because ultimately neoliberalism is about eschewing logic such as 'because we live here' or 'because he is my kin' or really accepting that nobody will die for Coca Cola. It's about leaving societies open to digestion from global capital. Turns out there is no amount of money in your bank account that can make you immune to bullet-through-head-itis. The triumph of neoliberalism is the triumph of 'right wing' economics (Read, individualist economics) and 'left wing' social politics (Read, individualist social policies) both of which stem from the wealthy elite since they remove any shackles of limits or responsibility on them.

    The Taliban are essentially the anti-lastmen.

    I genuinely think that the people running the US now are so protected from their self-serving narratives that everyone else should just submit to their desires that it sometimes surprises them when they don't, they don't even comprehend why they do it, don't they know that perusing their interests is against their interests! And people like that are very dangerous, they don't know when they need to negotiate, the US should have negotiated with the Taliban to give them autonomy in the tribal highlands and left something like a UN force to protect the lowlands. Instead it set about an impossible task of stopping the Taliban without realising that there is no 'Taliban' it's just the tribal people in the uplands. 'Stopping' them required genocide. Just like Vietnam.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Bardon Kaldian, @Jack D, @donut, @J.Ross, @Kratoklastes

    the US should have negotiated with the Taliban

    The US did negotiate with the Taliban but it couldn’t make a deal because the Taliban weren’t ultimately interested in making a deal. They were interested in winning the war. That’s the best “deal” of all – war is diplomacy by other means. If I am winning the poker game and am going to take all the chips if I just keep playing for a little while longer, what kind of “deal” is it if you offer me half the chips?

    The Taliban won the war because they wanted it more than the other side and they fought for it and were able to fight for it. All the nice NGO ladies and lady schoolteachers and so on wanted a modern Afghanistan but they couldn’t find enough Afghan men who were willing and able to fight and die for their vision of Afghanistan as a modern democracy. Dying for Allah is one thing. Dying for the World Wildlife Fund or something – no way.

    TBH, that part of the world is really short on modern democracies (although Pakistan is somewhat democratic, the military really runs in more than the nominal elected leaders). If Afghanistan had been a more ethnically uniform place like Tajikistan we could have found some non-Islamist tough guy to be the dictator and kick everyone’s ass, including the Taliban. But it’s not – the best we could have hoped for was to back a bunch of regional ethnic warlords but these guys are unlovable (for good reasons) and no one in Washington was really excited about such a plan when you could talk about schools for girls and stuff like that instead.

    Meanwhile, all these nice NGO ladies and lady school teachers and stuff that we left behind in Kabul are literally in mortal danger. The Taliban is not above killing people like this. The only question is how many will die. Aside from feeling sorry for them, this is bad for American interests because it sends a message to American allies in other countries that when the shit hits the fan the US will not protect you. This is not a message you want to send to your allies.

    • Replies: @Hangnail Hans
    @Jack D

    Who knows if or when Steve will release my post just before yours, but you've quoted that "institute" denizen almost verbatim. Weird huh.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    If Afghanistan had been a more ethnically uniform place like Tajikistan we could have found some non-Islamist tough guy to be the dictator and kick everyone’s ass, including the Taliban.
     
    The principal issue is that we can't support tough guys. The way to eliminate the Taliban is to eliminate their kin. That means over ten million Pashtuns. Dostum would have driven them into Pakistan. No way any president could support that. The Pashtuns fought a guerrilla war. They avoided combat until the odds were in their favor and conducted chevauchees/razzias against civilians related to government employees. The way to combat that is to conduct similar raids/massacres against Taliban-related civilians to force the Taliban into open battle, wiping them out as necessary. But Washington resolutely refused to do so.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevauch%C3%A9e
    , @Bizarro World Observer
    @Jack D

    Perhaps not. But it's the truth. The only thing more risky than being an enemy of the US is being its friend. Ask Noriega, Saddam, Ghaddafi, Diem, Taiwan, and the thousands of collaborators through the years whom the US turned on or abandoned. Not to mention the countries of Central Europe handed over by Roosevelt to the Soviets.

    So this is just standard US practice. It's best that the world knows.

    , @Bert
    @Jack D


    it sends a message to American allies in other countries that when the shit hits the fan the US will not protect you. This is not a message you want to send to your allies.
     
    Not if you are a feckless bullshiter of a country. But the message may be the best for world peace if it encourages the Japanese, South Koreans and Australians to develop nuclear weapons on the down-low.
    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Jack D

    "If I am winning the poker game and am going to take all the chips if I just keep playing for a little while longer, what kind of “deal” is it if you offer me half the chips?"

    The "deal" is, you still go home with a lot of chips.... and one less enemy.

    , @Anonymous
    @Jack D

    Bismarck once famously proclaimed "the whole of the Balkans are not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier".

    The whole of Afghanistan is not worth the excrement of a single Navy SEAL.

    , @Houston 1992
    @Jack D

    the assumption you make is that changing Afghanis is an an American interest even if it were possible.

    Plomin data, MN Twin Studies indicate strongly that people cannot be changed in any meaningful way.

    The real American interest that was lost was when we decided to throw away trillions and thousands of lives on "nation building" versus nation sustaining here at home.

    Nations are born, and not made, although circumstances may allow nations to reveal themselves for good or ill

  25. Sure the Taliban live there, but it’s not like they live there alone. The Northern Alliance gave them a fight pre-9/11. Kabul increased in size from 500k to 4500k in the last 20 years. The Taliban had something like 75k troops in the field vs 300k government forces. The Taliban could have easily been stopped if there was sufficient resistance from the broader population.

    It did not happen. There was no resistance. Popular support for the government was nil. Their armies melted away, their leaders abandoned them, and there were massive civilian crowds welcoming the Taliban as liberators restoring their ancient liberties and their way of life against a hostile alien power.

    In short, we are witnessing an actual democratic revolution against an oligarchical regime. It is going to be nasty and brutal and not undeserved against a useless, parasitic elite. Let’s not get drawn into the pointless blamecasting between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. Instead, let’s focus on how the Taliban accomplished victory, and see if their are useful lessons for our situation.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @George
    @aNewBanner

    "The Northern Alliance gave them a fight pre-9/11. "

    The Northern Alliance were ethnics from the northern -stan countries. This time around the northern -stan countries + China Russia Iran want the US of A out so the Taliban (Pashtuns) are supported by them.

    I am guessing that China made sure that the Israeli cellphone tech used to spot and assassinate Taliban leaders did not work or even misled the Afghan/US/NATO. Don't believe it, when Biden called in the B-52s and Spector gunships why didn't they show up? Perhaps they did show up but they could not reliably target anything. The Taliban also seemed to have remarkable targeting capability themselves, assassinating or capturing Afghan pilots, commanders, ...

    , @dearieme
    @aNewBanner

    Let’s not get drawn into the pointless blamecasting between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party.

    Ah, so that will be the Dem party line.

  26. MASHALLAH!

    • Agree: R.G. Camara
    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Communists and their Whig view of history continuously fails in the face of reality.

  27. This reminds me of something, but I just can’t remember what….

    Taliban starts collecting weapons from civilians, claims people can feel safe under its rule

    [MORE]

    The Taliban has started rounding up weapons belonging to civilians and those in the security profession, as the militant group firms up its control over the Afghan capital and thousands flee.

    On Monday, the Taliban started entering premises around the captured Afghan capital of Kabul and began seizing weapons. A representative of the militant group said that people no longer needed to keep weapons for safety, confirming that it had started collecting firearms.

    The Taliban official told Reuters that they understood why people kept weapons in the past but said there was no need anymore. The representative noted that the Taliban had no intention of harming innocent civilians.

    https://www.rt.com/news/532167-afghan-taliban-kabul-weapons/

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    @Hangnail Hans


    Taliban starts collecting weapons from civilians, claims people can feel safe under its rule
     
    Compare that to Iraq after the Coalition knocked over Saddam...

    In a significant retreat in American efforts to seize weapons held by Iraqi citizens, American and British officials said today that Iraqis would be allowed to keep AK-47 assault rifles in their homes and businesses.

    While American officials gave no public explanation for amending what had been a much tougher plan to rid postwar Iraq of heavy weapons, military officials have said they recognize the difficulties in disarming citizens at a time when Iraqis feel their security is still at risk.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/01/world/after-the-war-baghdad-iraqi-civilians-allowed-to-keep-assault-rifles.html
     

    Full-automatic honest-to-God Kalashnikovs; that's more gun than the majority of Americans have.
  28. @Jack D
    @Altai


    the US should have negotiated with the Taliban
     
    The US did negotiate with the Taliban but it couldn't make a deal because the Taliban weren't ultimately interested in making a deal. They were interested in winning the war. That's the best "deal" of all - war is diplomacy by other means. If I am winning the poker game and am going to take all the chips if I just keep playing for a little while longer, what kind of "deal" is it if you offer me half the chips?

    The Taliban won the war because they wanted it more than the other side and they fought for it and were able to fight for it. All the nice NGO ladies and lady schoolteachers and so on wanted a modern Afghanistan but they couldn't find enough Afghan men who were willing and able to fight and die for their vision of Afghanistan as a modern democracy. Dying for Allah is one thing. Dying for the World Wildlife Fund or something - no way.

    TBH, that part of the world is really short on modern democracies (although Pakistan is somewhat democratic, the military really runs in more than the nominal elected leaders). If Afghanistan had been a more ethnically uniform place like Tajikistan we could have found some non-Islamist tough guy to be the dictator and kick everyone's ass, including the Taliban. But it's not - the best we could have hoped for was to back a bunch of regional ethnic warlords but these guys are unlovable (for good reasons) and no one in Washington was really excited about such a plan when you could talk about schools for girls and stuff like that instead.

    Meanwhile, all these nice NGO ladies and lady school teachers and stuff that we left behind in Kabul are literally in mortal danger. The Taliban is not above killing people like this. The only question is how many will die. Aside from feeling sorry for them, this is bad for American interests because it sends a message to American allies in other countries that when the shit hits the fan the US will not protect you. This is not a message you want to send to your allies.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @Johann Ricke, @Bizarro World Observer, @Bert, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Anonymous, @Houston 1992

    Who knows if or when Steve will release my post just before yours, but you’ve quoted that “institute” denizen almost verbatim. Weird huh.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Hangnail Hans

    No, it's not at all strange. Us Joos all communicate with each other and set the agenda of the day thru the secret JooList mailed to us every morning by Mossad. It's is like JournoList except better. I know I said it's a secret but I know that I can tell you guys because no one will believe you anyway when you tell them that the Jews are coordinating all their efforts.

    Alternatively, the "institute guy" and I arrived at the same conclusion because we both applied the same process of deductive reasoning - if you screw one of your friends, you other friends may notice and no longer regard you as trustworthy.

    Replies: @David Davenport

  29. @Tono Bungay
    I don't understand. Don't the Afghans who hated the Taliban live there, too?

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Wency

    Neither do I. Southerners lived in the The South in 1860.

  30. @Almost Missouri

    Why Did the Taliban Win? Because They Live There
     
    Hmm, we live here, and yet ...

    ... somehow we're not winning.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @Intelligent Dasein

    The obvious implication here is that the US can do nothing. It is corrupt and incompetent almost beyond belief. If only 1 in 300 Americans draw the moral, that is still over 1 million people who just realized that the empire is a paper tiger.

    • Agree: Kratoklastes
  31. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/EdAsante77/status/1427008744047718403?s=20

    Replies: @Altai, @AnotherDad, @Gabe Ruth

    The Taliban were willing to hand over Bin Laden who was only there as a relic of the US backed campaign against the Soviets, this offer was refused. Possibly because it represented some conditions and Bush admin wanted to look tough, possibly because they didn’t yet (Or have ever) have any good evidence that Bin Laden did it (Which was the only demand) and possibly because they wanted war, they wanted bodies as ‘revenge’ for 9/11 and possibly because they wanted the war so as to prepare the public and PR firms for a ‘war on terror’ that extended to Iraq. And maybe some of all of these. (Afghanistan having a border with Iran that straddled a non-Persian people with ethnic militia and separatist desires was probably a nice bonus)

    The neocons wanted to variously slowly build up to a US military attack on Iraq via the campaign in Afghanistan, build up their guy Bush and sate their own and others desire for revenge, even if it was against people who had nothing to do with 9/11. And, Eric Erickson, being a neocon lackey, knows this.

    Though there are apparently leaked memos from Rumsfeld very early on about him not wanting them to ‘nation build’ but as the events show, how do you simultaneously ‘oust’ the Taliban and not occupy the country? At least it was theoretically possible to do in Iraq to kill Sadam and fracture the country so it no longer presented a possible check on Israel but how do you do that in Afghanistan? We see now you apparently can’t.

    All of this is a moot point or will become one as the lack of any apparent fretting over the bodies the US has produced in Afghanistan among the cosmopolitan elite makes clear, Afghan lives don’t matter. (Unless they can be brought to the US in the demographic war, then you’ll see much fretting.)

    • Replies: @for-the-record
    @Altai

    The Taliban were willing to hand over Bin Laden who was only there as a relic of the US backed campaign against the Soviets, this offer was refused.

    They were apparently willing to hand him over before 9/11

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2011/9/11/taliban-offered-bin-laden-trial-before-9

    as well as after

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

    , @Jack D
    @Altai

    There was no possible deal between the US and the Taliban. The Taliban bobbed and weaved at the negotiating table but ultimately there was no way that they were going to turn over a fellow Muslim to the infidels. It went against their every principle. Not that the US was really trying that hard to make a deal, but really there was no deal to be had with the Taliban, not then and not now. How do you make a deal with people who take their orders from Allah?

    Invading Afghanistan didn't net us Bin Laden anyway. We lost the war in Afghanistan for the same reason we lost the war in Vietnam: you can't defeat (1) a determined enemy who (2) has a refuge and a lifeline of supplies and armaments in a neighboring country whom you can't also invade and defeat. It's like trying to extinguish Covid - unless you completely chase down the reservoir of infection, it's going to make a comeback.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Johann Ricke

  32. @Anonymous
    @Altai

    Assuming those planes aren't heading to the US, some of those boys may make it.

    I applaud them.

    Not for "escaping" or "desiring freedom" or some bullhooey like that but for having fun and living to tell about it.

    The West has too many laws and has too much fun with their "darwin award" laugheries and such.

    I love those boys who gave it a go and hope that a couple of them make it.

    I watched The Man Who Would Be King on Steve's suggestion and positively loved it. It was no tragedy but a celebration of the life and glorious death of A Great Man. There are no morals in the tale, as there aren't in Huckleberry Finn.

    They teach you Huckleberry Finn in school as a preventative vaccine against finding the scroll later in life and going off on similar adventures of your own.

    Twain foresaw this danger and attempted - unsuccessful - to stave it off by granting his opening page of the book to the following few lines.


    NOTICE
    Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot.

    By order of the author,
    Per G.G., Chief of Ordnance
     

    People laughing at those boys or mourning them or attributing their deaths to the moral failures of this or that group of people have no life left in them and are but surplus meat farting into the ozone.

    Thise brave awesome boys however are humanity's pride and I, for one, celebrate them.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @SteveRogers42, @SteveRogers42

    Living free like a savage up and down the Mississippi River is one thing. Thinking you are going to get to a destination in one piece by holing up in the gear bay is just insanely stupid. What do they think, there’s a Delta Sky Club lounge up in there? There are gear overheat loops and a place for the wheels – no space for some reckless moron.

    I understand your point about young boys and real freedom, but no, this is suicidal behavior.

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @Technite78
    @Achmed E. Newman


    What do they think, there’s a Delta Sky Club lounge up in there?
     
    Probably, most of them have no idea what's up in there. They don't understand aviation, aerodynamics, temperature/pressure at 30,000 feet, any more than they understand the internal combustion engine or automatic transmissions or crumple zones. If they can hang on to the outside of a pickup truck rushing down a road, how much tougher could it be to hang on to the outside of an airplane? They probably have no way to comprehend the difference.
    , @AnonymousOP
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I wrote the previous comment and I stand by it. Yeah, it aint gonna work. I'm not saying they knew what they were doing. They took a risk for fun jumping into the void and because I applaud that I hope, somehow, a couple of them make it.

    Lemme tell ya where I'm coming from.

    I just this very moment stepped into a movie theatre to check whether there was anything good to sneak into. Seeing the VAX sign I figured I'd check that out first. As it is the only movie playing seems to be some sort of sickly childrens movie called Suicide Squad. Well, and Stillwater, but I already gratis'd my way into that one last week. (Broke my heart. I'm over it now, but if imperfect love, circumstances, adventure and foreign lands are your thing you'll like it too. Oh and for once Damon isn't a genius superman, just a simple man from Oklahoma. An Everyman with no clever lines. Just the same heart we all have. Watch it.)

    Right, so walking in just now they've got both a man and a woman standing at the door. Apologetically and obviously blushing from behind their muzzles they inform us that DeBlasio's new faucism means that to enter the theatre we must show proof of vaccination with a photo ID.

    To see a movie.

    AD, JW and the other local faucists just creamed their pants. j/k faucists come pre-neutered.

    So who do I stand and applaud? The Americans hiding behind their masks and showing off their vaccination cards at arms length? Or the dumb boys who grabbed on to the landing gear of a fuckin plane l e a v i n g . t h e . c o u n t r y !!

    Hallelujah!

  33. A stubborn enemy can be utterly defeated on its home turf, but it requires a total war approach that immiserates the civilian population. e.g., Germany, Japan, the Confederacy, the Boers, the Commanche nation, etc.

    We did the exact opposite in Afghanistan. Anyone who served there under the rank of O-5 could have told you it wouldn’t work

    Not that brutalizing women and children is the right thing to do, it’s just a condition for victory under circumstances like these.

  34. @Altai
    The scramble for Kabul is over.

    The scramble for the West continues.

    https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1427201464728961025

    https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1427212572575637504

    These teenage boys aren't fleeing death, they are trying to see if they can file a spurious asylum claim. As evidenced by the laughing and choosing the most dangerous thing they could possibly do in their life which resulted in a few deaths almost immediately.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Jack Armstrong, @Goddard

    These teenage boys aren’t fleeing death, they are trying to see if they can file a spurious asylum claim.

    Given the extremely, incredibly high risks involved in clinging to the outside of a jet, I would say that the former is more likely. Maybe these were guys who had collaborated with the Americans and they knew that the Taliban was going to chop their heads off when they caught up with them, so they had nothing left to lose.

    OTOH, these people looked like inbred goat herders – maybe they thought that clinging to a jet was like hitching a ride on the bumper of a jingle truck:

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BWX63Yk2vrw/WsSLXKSx8II/AAAAAAABWf0/vIdCx3fe7yIjv5lmOM2ajYc2X9rXXH1CQCHMYCw/pakistan-jingle-trucks-26?imgmax=1600

    • Replies: @OracleY2K
    @Jack D

    I think it’s more them being 75 IQ morons who thought they could actually hold on all the way.

    Replies: @Honorary Jew

  35. This is. Good thing. But we must resist the inevitable call to house and feed male refugees.

  36. @Altai
    @Desiderius

    The Taliban were willing to hand over Bin Laden who was only there as a relic of the US backed campaign against the Soviets, this offer was refused. Possibly because it represented some conditions and Bush admin wanted to look tough, possibly because they didn't yet (Or have ever) have any good evidence that Bin Laden did it (Which was the only demand) and possibly because they wanted war, they wanted bodies as 'revenge' for 9/11 and possibly because they wanted the war so as to prepare the public and PR firms for a 'war on terror' that extended to Iraq. And maybe some of all of these. (Afghanistan having a border with Iran that straddled a non-Persian people with ethnic militia and separatist desires was probably a nice bonus)

    The neocons wanted to variously slowly build up to a US military attack on Iraq via the campaign in Afghanistan, build up their guy Bush and sate their own and others desire for revenge, even if it was against people who had nothing to do with 9/11. And, Eric Erickson, being a neocon lackey, knows this.

    Though there are apparently leaked memos from Rumsfeld very early on about him not wanting them to 'nation build' but as the events show, how do you simultaneously 'oust' the Taliban and not occupy the country? At least it was theoretically possible to do in Iraq to kill Sadam and fracture the country so it no longer presented a possible check on Israel but how do you do that in Afghanistan? We see now you apparently can't.

    All of this is a moot point or will become one as the lack of any apparent fretting over the bodies the US has produced in Afghanistan among the cosmopolitan elite makes clear, Afghan lives don't matter. (Unless they can be brought to the US in the demographic war, then you'll see much fretting.)

    Replies: @for-the-record, @Jack D

    The Taliban were willing to hand over Bin Laden who was only there as a relic of the US backed campaign against the Soviets, this offer was refused.

    They were apparently willing to hand him over before 9/11

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2011/9/11/taliban-offered-bin-laden-trial-before-9

    as well as after

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/oct/14/afghanistan.terrorism5

  37. @aNewBanner
    Sure the Taliban live there, but it’s not like they live there alone. The Northern Alliance gave them a fight pre-9/11. Kabul increased in size from 500k to 4500k in the last 20 years. The Taliban had something like 75k troops in the field vs 300k government forces. The Taliban could have easily been stopped if there was sufficient resistance from the broader population.

    It did not happen. There was no resistance. Popular support for the government was nil. Their armies melted away, their leaders abandoned them, and there were massive civilian crowds welcoming the Taliban as liberators restoring their ancient liberties and their way of life against a hostile alien power.

    In short, we are witnessing an actual democratic revolution against an oligarchical regime. It is going to be nasty and brutal and not undeserved against a useless, parasitic elite. Let’s not get drawn into the pointless blamecasting between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. Instead, let’s focus on how the Taliban accomplished victory, and see if their are useful lessons for our situation.

    Replies: @George, @dearieme

    “The Northern Alliance gave them a fight pre-9/11. ”

    The Northern Alliance were ethnics from the northern -stan countries. This time around the northern -stan countries + China Russia Iran want the US of A out so the Taliban (Pashtuns) are supported by them.

    I am guessing that China made sure that the Israeli cellphone tech used to spot and assassinate Taliban leaders did not work or even misled the Afghan/US/NATO. Don’t believe it, when Biden called in the B-52s and Spector gunships why didn’t they show up? Perhaps they did show up but they could not reliably target anything. The Taliban also seemed to have remarkable targeting capability themselves, assassinating or capturing Afghan pilots, commanders, …

  38. @Altai
    @Desiderius

    The Taliban were willing to hand over Bin Laden who was only there as a relic of the US backed campaign against the Soviets, this offer was refused. Possibly because it represented some conditions and Bush admin wanted to look tough, possibly because they didn't yet (Or have ever) have any good evidence that Bin Laden did it (Which was the only demand) and possibly because they wanted war, they wanted bodies as 'revenge' for 9/11 and possibly because they wanted the war so as to prepare the public and PR firms for a 'war on terror' that extended to Iraq. And maybe some of all of these. (Afghanistan having a border with Iran that straddled a non-Persian people with ethnic militia and separatist desires was probably a nice bonus)

    The neocons wanted to variously slowly build up to a US military attack on Iraq via the campaign in Afghanistan, build up their guy Bush and sate their own and others desire for revenge, even if it was against people who had nothing to do with 9/11. And, Eric Erickson, being a neocon lackey, knows this.

    Though there are apparently leaked memos from Rumsfeld very early on about him not wanting them to 'nation build' but as the events show, how do you simultaneously 'oust' the Taliban and not occupy the country? At least it was theoretically possible to do in Iraq to kill Sadam and fracture the country so it no longer presented a possible check on Israel but how do you do that in Afghanistan? We see now you apparently can't.

    All of this is a moot point or will become one as the lack of any apparent fretting over the bodies the US has produced in Afghanistan among the cosmopolitan elite makes clear, Afghan lives don't matter. (Unless they can be brought to the US in the demographic war, then you'll see much fretting.)

    Replies: @for-the-record, @Jack D

    There was no possible deal between the US and the Taliban. The Taliban bobbed and weaved at the negotiating table but ultimately there was no way that they were going to turn over a fellow Muslim to the infidels. It went against their every principle. Not that the US was really trying that hard to make a deal, but really there was no deal to be had with the Taliban, not then and not now. How do you make a deal with people who take their orders from Allah?

    Invading Afghanistan didn’t net us Bin Laden anyway. We lost the war in Afghanistan for the same reason we lost the war in Vietnam: you can’t defeat (1) a determined enemy who (2) has a refuge and a lifeline of supplies and armaments in a neighboring country whom you can’t also invade and defeat. It’s like trying to extinguish Covid – unless you completely chase down the reservoir of infection, it’s going to make a comeback.

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jack D

    Hmm. If you know you’re going to lose a war 15-20 yrs ahead of time, then you should be blamed if you don’t try to stop it… Resigning one’s own crap Pentagon paper-shuffler job may not “stop” anything (other than one’s own involvement) though it is full proof of “trying.” I’m not sure it is an honor-oriented type of employment situation without that. Or is the problem that so few people in the building knew, in the Morgan Stanley sense, that the conquest of the Hindu Kush was an absolute subprime p.o.s. sandwich… it seems implausible that only a handful of GS-15’s foresaw that. Is that not Afghanistan’s “brand?”

    There is a bit of a societal Chinese finger trap, if losing a war over 20 years is mildly profitable for a small number of insiders; we can’t afford to repeat that exercise 2x every half-century. Why have any civil service bureaucracy and bloated distended staff at all, if the latter are too gutless/naive to realize it is an Enron institution

    , @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    There was no possible deal between the US and the Taliban. The Taliban bobbed and weaved at the negotiating table but ultimately there was no way that they were going to turn over a fellow Muslim to the infidels. It went against their every principle. Not that the US was really trying that hard to make a deal, but really there was no deal to be had with the Taliban, not then and not now. How do you make a deal with people who take their orders from Allah?
     
    I think we will get other bites at this apple. The Taliban are nothing if not megalomaniac. They sponsored the attacks on 9/11 despite knowing, from Saddam's experience during Desert Storm, that the US had the capability to inflict damage on them similar to the way in which the Soviets are estimated to have killed 1m Afghans during the Afghan-Soviet War. The human cost to Afghanistan of the American campaign is maybe 1/6 of the casualties the Soviets inflicted.

    Maybe they'll think that airplanes did not inflict enough damage to either cause the US to surrender or get Allah to intervene directly. Maybe they think nuclear detonations in a larger number of American cities will do the trick. Is it megalomania if they win?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Rob, @Adam Smith

  39. • Replies: @Bill B.
    @Desiderius

    I am reminded of the Billion Dollar Brain that was awesomely clever but also terribly stupid in its reliance on human honesty and hypothetical targets.

    At four minutes:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPlOsrT0raQ

  40. They won because of a vast differential in birth rates. In any protracted conflict this is the determining factor, as has been known at least since the day of Pyrrhus of Epirus.

    • Replies: @aj54
    @SimpleSong

    or..."never get involved in a land war in Asia"...

  41. holy Fing F. the videos coming out of Afghanistan. total chaos. this makes Saigon look reasonable.

    nothing will ever top the video of those people falling off the airplanes taking off.

    easily the worst executed drawn down in US history. they didn’t even bother to destroy any of their equipment on the way out. they just let enemy forces capture everything.

    Democrats. wow. apparently they even revealed secret agents in that white house briefing video by accidentally showing who they were and where they were on video conferences.

    it’s crazy how wrong CIA was about the chances of total collapse and time scales here. that’s a big part of how everybody in this moron government got so surprised at what happened. too busy with Critical Race Theory and women with penises and telling us that white Christians are the biggest threat to democracy.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @prime noticer

    The US need only have organised their leaving when winter had set in to avoid this.

    Replies: @sss

    , @Ian M.
    @prime noticer


    white Christians are the biggest threat to democracy
     
    If only!
  42. @Altai
    The scramble for Kabul is over.

    The scramble for the West continues.

    https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1427201464728961025

    https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1427212572575637504

    These teenage boys aren't fleeing death, they are trying to see if they can file a spurious asylum claim. As evidenced by the laughing and choosing the most dangerous thing they could possibly do in their life which resulted in a few deaths almost immediately.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Jack Armstrong, @Goddard

    These teenage boys aren’t fleeing death, they are trying to see if they can file a spurious asylum claim.

    On the other hand, there are thousands of teenage boys who might have had a less-than-spurious asylum claim. But life just got better for them.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Reg Cæsar

    We already have taken in many thousands of teenage boys, and a lot of older guys too, without even spurious claims. So just send'em to Sweden! They can probably even walk if need be, like in 2015.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Anonymous

  43. The Afghans we hired did live there. They simply did not care.

    The Afghan army had to replace 25% of its force each year, because of desertions. That is in Pentagon reports (so you know the true figure is higher) but no one seems to have grasped its import. That is not an army. That is a wait staff. We were paying tens (hundreds?) of billions of dollars for nothing and we did know it. BTW, does anyone know the true dollar figure we spent on that army – equipment and training?

    These deserters, and the army units throwing down their weapons right now, are the brothers and fathers and husbands of the women we are so hysteric over at the moment. These men do not seem to care too much about the employment and educational prospects of their sisters, daughters and wives. Of course 99.99% of Afghan women have never spoken to Western reporters and for all we know, crazy or not, they might not even want to work in an HR department.

  44. @Morton's toes
    Joe Biden does Baghdad Bob:

    https://twitter.com/BryanDeanWright/status/1426710333264179214

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Peter Akuleyev

    This may become the most infamous — and devastating — press conference ever held by an American President.

    If it leads to President Harris, yes!

    And do you see any parallels between this withdrawal and what happened in Vietnam?

    Yes. Joe Biden was in office at the time.

    His elder Senate colleagues Dole and Buckley (b. 1923) are still with us– and likely more coherent– but retired long ago.

    • LOL: Escher
  45. Anonymous[309] • Disclaimer says:
    @Altai
    The scramble for Kabul is over.

    The scramble for the West continues.

    https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1427201464728961025

    https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1427212572575637504

    These teenage boys aren't fleeing death, they are trying to see if they can file a spurious asylum claim. As evidenced by the laughing and choosing the most dangerous thing they could possibly do in their life which resulted in a few deaths almost immediately.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Jack Armstrong, @Goddard

    Gotta say, this was my slightly slow own reaction to the liberal feminine NPC push today about huddled masses yearning to breathe/ride free (“He didn’t fly so good”):

    Isn’t holding onto the outside of a plane *after lift-off* kind of bone-headed as a last act? Can I say this ought not to be valorized, generally speaking? I mean, when someone high on bath salts jumps into a tank of pirhanas, that’s tragic too, but we must admit it is also unfortunately funny at the same time.

    At the end of “The Predator” reboot a guy jumps into a jet turbine whilst firing a gun at it and it was meta kino in this vein

    • Replies: @What am I doing her
    @Anonymous

    "
    Isn’t holding onto the outside of a plane *after lift-off* kind of bone-headed as a last act?"
    Yes. But it gives a great new twist to the old joke:

    "I just flew in from Kabul, and boy, are my arms tired!"

  46. I got a million problems with Joe Biden – including how he ended up in his current position – but this ain’t one of ’em.

    This would have happened had we pulled out in 2005, 2011, 2018, or if we stayed until 2030.

    Right or wrong, I can see why Trump did a 180 after promising to get out of the place. The legitimate intel people probably told him he’d have a Saigon on his hands within weeks, and he just couldn’t bear the optics.

    The lesson of the ascendancy of the Taliban is one we should have learned 100 times over but never will. People want to be who they are, not just consumers on the Globe-Hobo plantation. I’ve always said this is why North Korea has lasted as long as it has. Yes, the regime is oppressive, and that helps keep a lid on things. But it’s also because a large number of fiercely nationalistic and proud Koreans would rather live in poverty and remain Korean than become thoroughly westernized – “Gangnam Style/K Pop.”

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Patrick in SC


    The lesson of the ascendancy of the Taliban is one we should have learned 100 times over but never will. People want to be who they are, not just consumers on the Globe-Hobo plantation.
     
    The Ur-Western Greeks said this too:

    "Better a beggar on earth than a prince in the realm of shades."
    The Odyssey
  47. @Jack D
    @Altai


    These teenage boys aren’t fleeing death, they are trying to see if they can file a spurious asylum claim.
     
    Given the extremely, incredibly high risks involved in clinging to the outside of a jet, I would say that the former is more likely. Maybe these were guys who had collaborated with the Americans and they knew that the Taliban was going to chop their heads off when they caught up with them, so they had nothing left to lose.

    OTOH, these people looked like inbred goat herders - maybe they thought that clinging to a jet was like hitching a ride on the bumper of a jingle truck:

    https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BWX63Yk2vrw/WsSLXKSx8II/AAAAAAABWf0/vIdCx3fe7yIjv5lmOM2ajYc2X9rXXH1CQCHMYCw/pakistan-jingle-trucks-26?imgmax=1600

    Replies: @OracleY2K

    I think it’s more them being 75 IQ morons who thought they could actually hold on all the way.

    • Replies: @Honorary Jew
    @OracleY2K

    "I think it’s more them being 75 IQ morons who thought they could actually hold on all the way."

    Possibly. Afghanistan still at 38% literacy, so Western Europe around 1840 (not finding great literacy graphs)? Given measurable Flynn Effect over 20th Century, could be some stone busted-ass morons out in them streets, as Flynn Effect could have been yuuger 1840-1900, we just don't know. Whether you came at Afghanis from HBD angle (it persists,) or just the Flynn Effect angle (it's major,) you're lookin' at some of the lowest IQs out there. Nigeria--a large country--up to 62% literacy, which we didn't even bother to jack Afghanistan up to, over 20 goddamn years.

  48. They won because we didn’t have a Subutai or WT Sherman to fight our war.

  49. Someone above mentioned General Dostum, who was notorious for his cruelty (like crushing prisoners under tanks). I imagine his cruelty is why he held onto power and prevented total Taliban takeover in the 1990s, and I also imagine this is why we never achieved full victory. We needed a Colonel Kurtz type to do what was necessary in that culture to impress on the populace why they’d be better off supporting our guys rather than the Taliban. If we weren’t willing to publicly execute Taliban prisoners and collaborators, the people could clearly see they had more to fear from the latter.

    • Agree: SteveRogers42
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @jtgw

    We? There’s no we for that. You’re on your own there Col. Jessup. We just cut off your trust fund.

    You can’t build your own nation you’ve got no business messing with anyone else’s.

    Replies: @jtgw

    , @Jack D
    @jtgw

    The Soviets used to do stuff like that in Afghanistan but it still didn't gain them victory. You don't win a war by terrorizing the population unless you kill or displace the entire local male population and replace them with your own. You especially can't do that in a place where it's possible for the enemy to have a refuge and receive support across some border.

    Replies: @donut, @jtgw

  50. @Altai
    The scramble for Kabul is over.

    The scramble for the West continues.

    https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1427201464728961025

    https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1427212572575637504

    These teenage boys aren't fleeing death, they are trying to see if they can file a spurious asylum claim. As evidenced by the laughing and choosing the most dangerous thing they could possibly do in their life which resulted in a few deaths almost immediately.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Jack Armstrong, @Goddard

    Crisis actors and/or photoshop.

  51. “Why Did the Taliban Win? Because They Live There”

    Then why aren’t we winning?

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    @Anon7

    Why? Look at many of the comments here on any articles about demographics. Always talk about why people should flee the coasts for boring exurbs and mountain enclaves. The minute things get a little rough many heritage Americans scurry away and try to insulate themselves. Simply standing your ground has a lot of psychological power.

  52. @jtgw
    Someone above mentioned General Dostum, who was notorious for his cruelty (like crushing prisoners under tanks). I imagine his cruelty is why he held onto power and prevented total Taliban takeover in the 1990s, and I also imagine this is why we never achieved full victory. We needed a Colonel Kurtz type to do what was necessary in that culture to impress on the populace why they'd be better off supporting our guys rather than the Taliban. If we weren't willing to publicly execute Taliban prisoners and collaborators, the people could clearly see they had more to fear from the latter.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Jack D

    We? There’s no we for that. You’re on your own there Col. Jessup. We just cut off your trust fund.

    You can’t build your own nation you’ve got no business messing with anyone else’s.

    • Replies: @jtgw
    @Desiderius

    I agree with you in general. I don't think American elites have the stomach to do what it takes to build a nation like that.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  53. @Ganderson
    Any of you really shocked by the unfolding chaos? I can’t imagine there’s even one American charged with actually training Afghan troops who is even slightly surprised by this.

    I sense in a lot of right wing commentary an impulse to blame Dementia Joe for this Saigon-in-1975 replay- I’m not inclined to defend the guy myself, but, unless we were planning on staying another 20 years this was inevitable. GW made the mess, and Barry kept it going. I leave out the Donald, as I think he was trying to figure a way out. At least he didn’t expand our military footprint. We should have left in early 2002.

    BTW- former head of Central Command (and St. Paul’s own) Gen. Joe Votel was on NPR this morning doing his best Ralph Kramden/Quentin McHale “hammana hammana hammana….”

    The current crop of senior officers make the guys who ran the Vietnam War look like Pattons and MacArthurs.

    The donkeys, as General Smuts described the upper echelons of the British Army during the Boer War, knew this would happen. It’s ok, though, they have their defense contractor jobs and think tank sinecures to fall back on. Too bad families that had their fathers, brothers, and sons killed and wounded don’t have the same fall back position.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @SteveRogers42

    Yes, the right-wing attack on Biden is dumb. The reconquest by the Taliban should be no surprise, and so nobody should be “blamed” for it. On the other hand, the pullout seems to have been seriously mishandled. But, like the mishandling of pandemic response, that is really a bureaucratic failing. The people who should be taking the heat for this are the “smart people” at State and in the uppee ranks of the military.

    • Replies: @Ganderson
    @Chrisnonymous

    Won’t let me hit the “agree” button, but I do agree.

  54. @anonymous
    This chaotic last minute scramble shows a huge level of incompetence. They could easily have seen what was coming and made plans for an orderly exit. What's the final tally in dead and wounded US servicemen, their future medical costs, cost to the taxpayers? How many Afghans killed, maimed, widowed, orphaned, turned into refugees? Where are all the smart people who told us how it could be done? How many got rich through the war business? Twenty years folded up in just weeks like a house of cards.

    Replies: @aj54

    Privatize the profits, publicize the costs. How much did Cheney make? the value of Halliburton skyrocketed the moment the Supreme Court declared W the winner of the election. THAT is the only thing they care about.

  55. @Jack D
    @Altai


    the US should have negotiated with the Taliban
     
    The US did negotiate with the Taliban but it couldn't make a deal because the Taliban weren't ultimately interested in making a deal. They were interested in winning the war. That's the best "deal" of all - war is diplomacy by other means. If I am winning the poker game and am going to take all the chips if I just keep playing for a little while longer, what kind of "deal" is it if you offer me half the chips?

    The Taliban won the war because they wanted it more than the other side and they fought for it and were able to fight for it. All the nice NGO ladies and lady schoolteachers and so on wanted a modern Afghanistan but they couldn't find enough Afghan men who were willing and able to fight and die for their vision of Afghanistan as a modern democracy. Dying for Allah is one thing. Dying for the World Wildlife Fund or something - no way.

    TBH, that part of the world is really short on modern democracies (although Pakistan is somewhat democratic, the military really runs in more than the nominal elected leaders). If Afghanistan had been a more ethnically uniform place like Tajikistan we could have found some non-Islamist tough guy to be the dictator and kick everyone's ass, including the Taliban. But it's not - the best we could have hoped for was to back a bunch of regional ethnic warlords but these guys are unlovable (for good reasons) and no one in Washington was really excited about such a plan when you could talk about schools for girls and stuff like that instead.

    Meanwhile, all these nice NGO ladies and lady school teachers and stuff that we left behind in Kabul are literally in mortal danger. The Taliban is not above killing people like this. The only question is how many will die. Aside from feeling sorry for them, this is bad for American interests because it sends a message to American allies in other countries that when the shit hits the fan the US will not protect you. This is not a message you want to send to your allies.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @Johann Ricke, @Bizarro World Observer, @Bert, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Anonymous, @Houston 1992

    If Afghanistan had been a more ethnically uniform place like Tajikistan we could have found some non-Islamist tough guy to be the dictator and kick everyone’s ass, including the Taliban.

    The principal issue is that we can’t support tough guys. The way to eliminate the Taliban is to eliminate their kin. That means over ten million Pashtuns. Dostum would have driven them into Pakistan. No way any president could support that. The Pashtuns fought a guerrilla war. They avoided combat until the odds were in their favor and conducted chevauchees/razzias against civilians related to government employees. The way to combat that is to conduct similar raids/massacres against Taliban-related civilians to force the Taliban into open battle, wiping them out as necessary. But Washington resolutely refused to do so.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevauch%C3%A9e

  56. @Wokechoke
    I’d guess the gear left behind by the US will be aimed at Iran. Taliban are no friends of the Tehran people.

    So anyway, maybe this was the one right move that Biden made in his entire political life. Drawing a line under the US occupation of Afghanistan. He’ll get no credit for actually pulling the plug.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @Pericles

    You can tell Biden actually did the right thing by the way the usual MSM suspects are so outraged by our withdrawal.

    • Replies: @Jtgw
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Yeah in general you can work out the correct position on any issue by taking the opposite view of the NYT.

  57. @SimpleSong
    They won because of a vast differential in birth rates. In any protracted conflict this is the determining factor, as has been known at least since the day of Pyrrhus of Epirus.

    Replies: @aj54

    or…”never get involved in a land war in Asia”…

  58. Anonymous[309] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    @Altai

    There was no possible deal between the US and the Taliban. The Taliban bobbed and weaved at the negotiating table but ultimately there was no way that they were going to turn over a fellow Muslim to the infidels. It went against their every principle. Not that the US was really trying that hard to make a deal, but really there was no deal to be had with the Taliban, not then and not now. How do you make a deal with people who take their orders from Allah?

    Invading Afghanistan didn't net us Bin Laden anyway. We lost the war in Afghanistan for the same reason we lost the war in Vietnam: you can't defeat (1) a determined enemy who (2) has a refuge and a lifeline of supplies and armaments in a neighboring country whom you can't also invade and defeat. It's like trying to extinguish Covid - unless you completely chase down the reservoir of infection, it's going to make a comeback.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Johann Ricke

    Hmm. If you know you’re going to lose a war 15-20 yrs ahead of time, then you should be blamed if you don’t try to stop it… Resigning one’s own crap Pentagon paper-shuffler job may not “stop” anything (other than one’s own involvement) though it is full proof of “trying.” I’m not sure it is an honor-oriented type of employment situation without that. Or is the problem that so few people in the building knew, in the Morgan Stanley sense, that the conquest of the Hindu Kush was an absolute subprime p.o.s. sandwich… it seems implausible that only a handful of GS-15’s foresaw that. Is that not Afghanistan’s “brand?”

    There is a bit of a societal Chinese finger trap, if losing a war over 20 years is mildly profitable for a small number of insiders; we can’t afford to repeat that exercise 2x every half-century. Why have any civil service bureaucracy and bloated distended staff at all, if the latter are too gutless/naive to realize it is an Enron institution

  59. Not sure how anyone thought you could take a resource-poor country stuffed full of competing primitive tribes and turn it into anything at all – or why you’d even try.

    • Agree: Ben tillman
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Arclight

    $2T is a powerful motivator.

    We elected the check-scratchers, and they’re still convinced that they’ll be back in power soon.

  60. @Morton's toes
    Joe Biden does Baghdad Bob:

    https://twitter.com/BryanDeanWright/status/1426710333264179214

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Peter Akuleyev

    Ha! 5 to one odds no one in America will give a shit about Afghanistan 6 months from now. Biden has actually played this exactly right so far – an American withdrawal with no American casualties is the way to do it. I know the MSM is frothing at the mouth for us to exchange 1000 American lives to allow another 100,000 Afghan men to come live with us, but I don’t think most American voters feel the same way.

    • Agree: Ben tillman, Bill
    • Replies: @Houston 1992
    @Peter Akuleyev

    The Dems will want to import interpreters and enrich red districts with them. Expect that to play out over years

    , @J.Ross
    @Peter Akuleyev

    He screwed up by having to undo everything Trump did out of tantrum rather than undoing a few things with a good reason and a plan. The personnel aren't home yet and the Taliban might decide to complicate that, possibly including burial. Had Biden controlled his truly idiotic generals (who wanted to stay forever) and kept to Trump's agreement, he would have a better version of the same result: there'd be no danger of revenge killings or a Carter-parallelling hostage mess, and the lyingpress would still give Biden all the credit anyway. Now the lyingpress is actually presuming to criticize the government.

  61. @Jack D
    @Altai

    There was no possible deal between the US and the Taliban. The Taliban bobbed and weaved at the negotiating table but ultimately there was no way that they were going to turn over a fellow Muslim to the infidels. It went against their every principle. Not that the US was really trying that hard to make a deal, but really there was no deal to be had with the Taliban, not then and not now. How do you make a deal with people who take their orders from Allah?

    Invading Afghanistan didn't net us Bin Laden anyway. We lost the war in Afghanistan for the same reason we lost the war in Vietnam: you can't defeat (1) a determined enemy who (2) has a refuge and a lifeline of supplies and armaments in a neighboring country whom you can't also invade and defeat. It's like trying to extinguish Covid - unless you completely chase down the reservoir of infection, it's going to make a comeback.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Johann Ricke

    There was no possible deal between the US and the Taliban. The Taliban bobbed and weaved at the negotiating table but ultimately there was no way that they were going to turn over a fellow Muslim to the infidels. It went against their every principle. Not that the US was really trying that hard to make a deal, but really there was no deal to be had with the Taliban, not then and not now. How do you make a deal with people who take their orders from Allah?

    I think we will get other bites at this apple. The Taliban are nothing if not megalomaniac. They sponsored the attacks on 9/11 despite knowing, from Saddam’s experience during Desert Storm, that the US had the capability to inflict damage on them similar to the way in which the Soviets are estimated to have killed 1m Afghans during the Afghan-Soviet War. The human cost to Afghanistan of the American campaign is maybe 1/6 of the casualties the Soviets inflicted.

    Maybe they’ll think that airplanes did not inflict enough damage to either cause the US to surrender or get Allah to intervene directly. Maybe they think nuclear detonations in a larger number of American cities will do the trick. Is it megalomania if they win?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Johann Ricke

    Maybe I am being naive, but I think the Taliban may have been truly chastened in the last 20 years. One of the guys sitting in the Presidential palace spent 8 years in Guantanamo and many of their brothers are NOT sitting there at all because they were blown to bit by some American airstrike. And they know what happened to Bid Laden, to Saddam, to lots of Jihadi guys. Not Desert Storm, but the sequel where they put a rope around Saddam's neck and hung him. So they may have some inkling that the US has both the means and the willpower to go after you if you really piss them off. It's one thing to "know" about Desert Storm and another thing to have the lived experience. Ruling Afghanistan is 99% of what they wanted to begin with. Sure they will always have a warm corner for Jihad in their hearts but maybe they've grown up enough to know when to hold 'em.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @Johann Ricke, @Anonymous

    , @Rob
    @Johann Ricke

    You Jews sure are bloodthirsty.

    , @Adam Smith
    @Johann Ricke


    They sponsored the attacks on 9/11...
     
    Lol... No. They did no such thing.

  62. This is was summed up by Erik D’Amato in his very worthwhile article about Hungary (https://quillette.com/2021/08/13/20-hungarian-lessons-the-west-is-still-missing/)

    “Internationalists flee, nationalists fight.”.

    That is exactly what is going on in Afghanistan. All the people we have raised to be good little Westerners just want to get the hell out of Dodge, not one of them is willing to fight to keep the Taliban out of their homes. The Taliban see Afghanistan as their land and are willing to die for it. The more we trained and educated Afghanis, the softer we made them. How do you possibly win that battle?

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Last bit about training's somewhat unfair: let's not forget how often or how effective the "soft" ANA was at killing American soldiers.

  63. @Jack D
    @Altai


    the US should have negotiated with the Taliban
     
    The US did negotiate with the Taliban but it couldn't make a deal because the Taliban weren't ultimately interested in making a deal. They were interested in winning the war. That's the best "deal" of all - war is diplomacy by other means. If I am winning the poker game and am going to take all the chips if I just keep playing for a little while longer, what kind of "deal" is it if you offer me half the chips?

    The Taliban won the war because they wanted it more than the other side and they fought for it and were able to fight for it. All the nice NGO ladies and lady schoolteachers and so on wanted a modern Afghanistan but they couldn't find enough Afghan men who were willing and able to fight and die for their vision of Afghanistan as a modern democracy. Dying for Allah is one thing. Dying for the World Wildlife Fund or something - no way.

    TBH, that part of the world is really short on modern democracies (although Pakistan is somewhat democratic, the military really runs in more than the nominal elected leaders). If Afghanistan had been a more ethnically uniform place like Tajikistan we could have found some non-Islamist tough guy to be the dictator and kick everyone's ass, including the Taliban. But it's not - the best we could have hoped for was to back a bunch of regional ethnic warlords but these guys are unlovable (for good reasons) and no one in Washington was really excited about such a plan when you could talk about schools for girls and stuff like that instead.

    Meanwhile, all these nice NGO ladies and lady school teachers and stuff that we left behind in Kabul are literally in mortal danger. The Taliban is not above killing people like this. The only question is how many will die. Aside from feeling sorry for them, this is bad for American interests because it sends a message to American allies in other countries that when the shit hits the fan the US will not protect you. This is not a message you want to send to your allies.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @Johann Ricke, @Bizarro World Observer, @Bert, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Anonymous, @Houston 1992

    Perhaps not. But it’s the truth. The only thing more risky than being an enemy of the US is being its friend. Ask Noriega, Saddam, Ghaddafi, Diem, Taiwan, and the thousands of collaborators through the years whom the US turned on or abandoned. Not to mention the countries of Central Europe handed over by Roosevelt to the Soviets.

    So this is just standard US practice. It’s best that the world knows.

  64. @Bill Jones
    I'm astonished by the apparent effort to bring the Afghans who worked as translators etc to "safety" in the US.

    Does anybody really believe that the US has a shortage of people who will sell out their country for a couple of bucks?

    Replies: @Commentator Mike

    Soon America will be flooded with Afghan “translators” most of whom don’t speak any English.

    • Thanks: Gordo
    • Replies: @Farenheit
    @Commentator Mike


    Soon America will be flooded with Afghan “translators” most of whom don’t speak any English
     
    ..and they'll each buy a couple of 7-11s and a multi-million dollar house for cash...
    , @Gordo
    @Commentator Mike


    Soon America will be flooded with Afghan “translators” most of whom don’t speak any English.
     
    Small boys in 5-Eyes need to be especially careful now.
  65. @Desiderius
    @jtgw

    We? There’s no we for that. You’re on your own there Col. Jessup. We just cut off your trust fund.

    You can’t build your own nation you’ve got no business messing with anyone else’s.

    Replies: @jtgw

    I agree with you in general. I don’t think American elites have the stomach to do what it takes to build a nation like that.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @jtgw

    Nor do they have the wits or spirit to build or even maintain one like this.

    Then again they’re not elite, so who is ultimately at fault for them being in the positions they’re in?

    https://twitter.com/ShidelerK/status/1426982912658972678?s=20

    No, it is our job to pay that attention. We failed.

  66. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Anonymous

    Living free like a savage up and down the Mississippi River is one thing. Thinking you are going to get to a destination in one piece by holing up in the gear bay is just insanely stupid. What do they think, there's a Delta Sky Club lounge up in there? There are gear overheat loops and a place for the wheels - no space for some reckless moron.

    I understand your point about young boys and real freedom, but no, this is suicidal behavior.

    Replies: @Technite78, @AnonymousOP

    What do they think, there’s a Delta Sky Club lounge up in there?

    Probably, most of them have no idea what’s up in there. They don’t understand aviation, aerodynamics, temperature/pressure at 30,000 feet, any more than they understand the internal combustion engine or automatic transmissions or crumple zones. If they can hang on to the outside of a pickup truck rushing down a road, how much tougher could it be to hang on to the outside of an airplane? They probably have no way to comprehend the difference.

  67. Pete Seeger’s classic homage to Ho Chi Minh from my college days; skip to 40 seconds to hear the old Marxist sing it out:

    “He educated all the people.
    He demonstrated to the world:
    If a man will stand for his own land,
    He’s got the strength of ten.

    “And if we’d only learn the lesson,
    It could even be a blessin’,
    He and me might disagree,
    But we needn’t go to shooting again.”

    Oh, and I guess my previous as yet unmoderated post response to the article headline would be more complete as “Why don’t WE win? We’re in the majority, and we live here.”

  68. @Altai
    I think what's even more interesting about all this is that despite having 20 years to do it, the modern neoliberal system was incapable of forming a functional government. That the last president of Afghanistan was a World Bank guy says it all. (If you were serious about having a viable non-Taliban state you'd put the popular guy incharge but if your instinct is to constantly undermine societies, you put the World Bank guy in there)

    Because ultimately neoliberalism is about eschewing logic such as 'because we live here' or 'because he is my kin' or really accepting that nobody will die for Coca Cola. It's about leaving societies open to digestion from global capital. Turns out there is no amount of money in your bank account that can make you immune to bullet-through-head-itis. The triumph of neoliberalism is the triumph of 'right wing' economics (Read, individualist economics) and 'left wing' social politics (Read, individualist social policies) both of which stem from the wealthy elite since they remove any shackles of limits or responsibility on them.

    The Taliban are essentially the anti-lastmen.

    I genuinely think that the people running the US now are so protected from their self-serving narratives that everyone else should just submit to their desires that it sometimes surprises them when they don't, they don't even comprehend why they do it, don't they know that perusing their interests is against their interests! And people like that are very dangerous, they don't know when they need to negotiate, the US should have negotiated with the Taliban to give them autonomy in the tribal highlands and left something like a UN force to protect the lowlands. Instead it set about an impossible task of stopping the Taliban without realising that there is no 'Taliban' it's just the tribal people in the uplands. 'Stopping' them required genocide. Just like Vietnam.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Bardon Kaldian, @Jack D, @donut, @J.Ross, @Kratoklastes

    beat me to it . I think we’re now at the point where the collapse is going to accelerate very quickly now . The only “enemies” our leaders can fight and prevail over are imaginary ones . Talking to you Whitey .

  69. @Polistra
    @Altai

    Exactly. These images have implications for the USA (and Europe) far beyond what's happening in Kabul today. How many will understand that?

    https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/08/Afghanistan4.gif

    Beyond these thousands, there will be millions. Beyond that, billions.

    Replies: @donut

    Cargo Cult .

  70. I can’t wait to welcome the thousands of Afghan “refugees” who are mortally afraid of the Taliban, but still go to Kabul for a month every year to hang out with family and do a little import-export business. I’m sure they will have a great time hanging out with Iranian, Eritrean, Ethiopian, Somali, Iraqi, and Syrian “refugees” in the Frankfurt airport lounge.

  71. That essay was a real waste of space. The gist? There is bureaucracy in the handling of war. We paid off the Afghans so we had a nice sounding reason to stay in-country, when the real reason we were there was to keep smacking the Taliban everywhere we found them.

  72. @Jack D
    @Altai


    the US should have negotiated with the Taliban
     
    The US did negotiate with the Taliban but it couldn't make a deal because the Taliban weren't ultimately interested in making a deal. They were interested in winning the war. That's the best "deal" of all - war is diplomacy by other means. If I am winning the poker game and am going to take all the chips if I just keep playing for a little while longer, what kind of "deal" is it if you offer me half the chips?

    The Taliban won the war because they wanted it more than the other side and they fought for it and were able to fight for it. All the nice NGO ladies and lady schoolteachers and so on wanted a modern Afghanistan but they couldn't find enough Afghan men who were willing and able to fight and die for their vision of Afghanistan as a modern democracy. Dying for Allah is one thing. Dying for the World Wildlife Fund or something - no way.

    TBH, that part of the world is really short on modern democracies (although Pakistan is somewhat democratic, the military really runs in more than the nominal elected leaders). If Afghanistan had been a more ethnically uniform place like Tajikistan we could have found some non-Islamist tough guy to be the dictator and kick everyone's ass, including the Taliban. But it's not - the best we could have hoped for was to back a bunch of regional ethnic warlords but these guys are unlovable (for good reasons) and no one in Washington was really excited about such a plan when you could talk about schools for girls and stuff like that instead.

    Meanwhile, all these nice NGO ladies and lady school teachers and stuff that we left behind in Kabul are literally in mortal danger. The Taliban is not above killing people like this. The only question is how many will die. Aside from feeling sorry for them, this is bad for American interests because it sends a message to American allies in other countries that when the shit hits the fan the US will not protect you. This is not a message you want to send to your allies.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @Johann Ricke, @Bizarro World Observer, @Bert, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Anonymous, @Houston 1992

    it sends a message to American allies in other countries that when the shit hits the fan the US will not protect you. This is not a message you want to send to your allies.

    Not if you are a feckless bullshiter of a country. But the message may be the best for world peace if it encourages the Japanese, South Koreans and Australians to develop nuclear weapons on the down-low.

  73. I don’t follow the news beyond a 500 mile radius from my home.

    Our personnel in Kabul are all CIA guys (psychos). We should maroon them there. Moreover, we should empty out Langley and send them to Afghanistan to join their buddies.

    • Agree: JMcG
  74. @Jack D
    @Altai


    the US should have negotiated with the Taliban
     
    The US did negotiate with the Taliban but it couldn't make a deal because the Taliban weren't ultimately interested in making a deal. They were interested in winning the war. That's the best "deal" of all - war is diplomacy by other means. If I am winning the poker game and am going to take all the chips if I just keep playing for a little while longer, what kind of "deal" is it if you offer me half the chips?

    The Taliban won the war because they wanted it more than the other side and they fought for it and were able to fight for it. All the nice NGO ladies and lady schoolteachers and so on wanted a modern Afghanistan but they couldn't find enough Afghan men who were willing and able to fight and die for their vision of Afghanistan as a modern democracy. Dying for Allah is one thing. Dying for the World Wildlife Fund or something - no way.

    TBH, that part of the world is really short on modern democracies (although Pakistan is somewhat democratic, the military really runs in more than the nominal elected leaders). If Afghanistan had been a more ethnically uniform place like Tajikistan we could have found some non-Islamist tough guy to be the dictator and kick everyone's ass, including the Taliban. But it's not - the best we could have hoped for was to back a bunch of regional ethnic warlords but these guys are unlovable (for good reasons) and no one in Washington was really excited about such a plan when you could talk about schools for girls and stuff like that instead.

    Meanwhile, all these nice NGO ladies and lady school teachers and stuff that we left behind in Kabul are literally in mortal danger. The Taliban is not above killing people like this. The only question is how many will die. Aside from feeling sorry for them, this is bad for American interests because it sends a message to American allies in other countries that when the shit hits the fan the US will not protect you. This is not a message you want to send to your allies.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @Johann Ricke, @Bizarro World Observer, @Bert, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Anonymous, @Houston 1992

    “If I am winning the poker game and am going to take all the chips if I just keep playing for a little while longer, what kind of “deal” is it if you offer me half the chips?”

    The “deal” is, you still go home with a lot of chips…. and one less enemy.

  75. Anonymous[280] • Disclaimer says:

    One thing – apart from the obvious – that both Syria and Afghanistan have in commotcn is that in recent years they have both experienced very rapid population increase, something like 3 to 4% per annum, which, as it happens, is the maximum Homo Sapiens can achieve with full libido and no contraception.

    The deep and hidden roots of the crises in both nation’s is, undoubtedly, a purely Malthusian one of too many people chasing to few resources, religion, politics etc, being the outward manifestations of this profound and universal truth.

    Ironically, the ad hoc solution to this paradigm appears to be the said nation’s offloading their surplus population onto the stupid gullible fools of Europe, the same people who actually ‘did the right thing’ of curtailing population growth.

    • Agree: Mark G.
  76. @Jack D
    @Altai


    the US should have negotiated with the Taliban
     
    The US did negotiate with the Taliban but it couldn't make a deal because the Taliban weren't ultimately interested in making a deal. They were interested in winning the war. That's the best "deal" of all - war is diplomacy by other means. If I am winning the poker game and am going to take all the chips if I just keep playing for a little while longer, what kind of "deal" is it if you offer me half the chips?

    The Taliban won the war because they wanted it more than the other side and they fought for it and were able to fight for it. All the nice NGO ladies and lady schoolteachers and so on wanted a modern Afghanistan but they couldn't find enough Afghan men who were willing and able to fight and die for their vision of Afghanistan as a modern democracy. Dying for Allah is one thing. Dying for the World Wildlife Fund or something - no way.

    TBH, that part of the world is really short on modern democracies (although Pakistan is somewhat democratic, the military really runs in more than the nominal elected leaders). If Afghanistan had been a more ethnically uniform place like Tajikistan we could have found some non-Islamist tough guy to be the dictator and kick everyone's ass, including the Taliban. But it's not - the best we could have hoped for was to back a bunch of regional ethnic warlords but these guys are unlovable (for good reasons) and no one in Washington was really excited about such a plan when you could talk about schools for girls and stuff like that instead.

    Meanwhile, all these nice NGO ladies and lady school teachers and stuff that we left behind in Kabul are literally in mortal danger. The Taliban is not above killing people like this. The only question is how many will die. Aside from feeling sorry for them, this is bad for American interests because it sends a message to American allies in other countries that when the shit hits the fan the US will not protect you. This is not a message you want to send to your allies.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @Johann Ricke, @Bizarro World Observer, @Bert, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Anonymous, @Houston 1992

    Bismarck once famously proclaimed “the whole of the Balkans are not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier”.

    The whole of Afghanistan is not worth the excrement of a single Navy SEAL.

    • Agree: SteveRogers42
  77. Well the Generals didn’t want to give Trump a political victory, so they seditiously stonewalled on his desire to get out of Afghanistan, when it could have been done competently. Instead, they gave Joe Biden a political disaster, but nobody will remember it in a few weeks when we’ll all be talking about mask mandates, lockdowns and vaccine passports.

    Meanwhile, tens of thousands of Afghanis will start showing up in white towns near you.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  78. @jtgw
    Someone above mentioned General Dostum, who was notorious for his cruelty (like crushing prisoners under tanks). I imagine his cruelty is why he held onto power and prevented total Taliban takeover in the 1990s, and I also imagine this is why we never achieved full victory. We needed a Colonel Kurtz type to do what was necessary in that culture to impress on the populace why they'd be better off supporting our guys rather than the Taliban. If we weren't willing to publicly execute Taliban prisoners and collaborators, the people could clearly see they had more to fear from the latter.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Jack D

    The Soviets used to do stuff like that in Afghanistan but it still didn’t gain them victory. You don’t win a war by terrorizing the population unless you kill or displace the entire local male population and replace them with your own. You especially can’t do that in a place where it’s possible for the enemy to have a refuge and receive support across some border.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @donut
    @Jack D

    And you would know all about that wouldn't you ?

    , @jtgw
    @Jack D

    Good point about the refuge. Honestly that makes the most sense as explanation for why this could never work.

  79. @Jack D
    @jtgw

    The Soviets used to do stuff like that in Afghanistan but it still didn't gain them victory. You don't win a war by terrorizing the population unless you kill or displace the entire local male population and replace them with your own. You especially can't do that in a place where it's possible for the enemy to have a refuge and receive support across some border.

    Replies: @donut, @jtgw

    And you would know all about that wouldn’t you ?

  80. I”m sick of hearing US politicians telling us we must admit tens of thousands of Afghans who ‘helped us’. Were they not paid for their assistance. I believe they were and very well by Afghan standards. Here is what needs to be done. Make a list of State Department, Pentagon and other US government policy makers who promoted this hare brained foreign adventure and deport them to Afghanistan to make room for the Afghans they insist we should import here.

  81. @Altai
    The scramble for Kabul is over.

    The scramble for the West continues.

    https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1427201464728961025

    https://twitter.com/PSFAERO/status/1427212572575637504

    These teenage boys aren't fleeing death, they are trying to see if they can file a spurious asylum claim. As evidenced by the laughing and choosing the most dangerous thing they could possibly do in their life which resulted in a few deaths almost immediately.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Anonymous, @Jack D, @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous, @Jack Armstrong, @Goddard

    The scramble for the West continues.

    Remember, America is not a nation, the posterity to whom the Founders bequeathed their enterprise; America is rather an idea. Because America is an idea, anyone can be American.

    “Invade the world” may have received a momentary jolt, but “invite the world” more operable than ever.

  82. @NJ Transit Commuter
    China, Iran, Pakistan and Russia are laughing at America now, and deservedly so.
    We’ll see how long that lasts. There is now a destabilized, radicalized country with billions of dollars of high tech US weapons now sitting on their border (or nearby in the case of Russia.)

    Imagine if we had to deal with Mexican cartels armed with Apache helicopters, Abrams tanks and 105 mm howitzers. That’s the new reality for Afghanistan’s neighbors.

    Replies: @Dennis Dale, @Alexander Turok

    No. The Taliban has no interest in or capability for invading other countries.
    This is cope–pointless cope. I can relate. I once loved the country too, and this would have hurt very badly then, and I would have hated the glee with which some are greeting it, and would have wished they would soon eat their words.
    But love of a country is a funny thing…

    • Replies: @Alfa158
    @Dennis Dale

    …. it’s hard to continue loving your country when it hates you.

    Replies: @Kjr

    , @Jack D
    @Dennis Dale


    The Taliban has no interest in or capability for invading other countries.
     
    They had no interest in doing so in 2001 either but neither did they have any interest in discipling their honored Muslim guest, Bid Laden and his merry band of rogues as they planned a program of international terrorism from Afghan soil. While the Taliban's goals are to impose an Islamic Khalifate in Afghanistan, they are sympathetic to the idea of a Khalifate everywhere. While MAYBE their experience in the last 20 years chastened them from repeating this exercise, their natural sympathy is with Muslims who are trying to bring about a Khalifate anywhere and everywhere.

    Replies: @Dennis Dale, @Anonymous

  83. @Wokechoke
    I’d guess the gear left behind by the US will be aimed at Iran. Taliban are no friends of the Tehran people.

    So anyway, maybe this was the one right move that Biden made in his entire political life. Drawing a line under the US occupation of Afghanistan. He’ll get no credit for actually pulling the plug.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @Pericles

    It’s a bit odd that the DoD just obeyed the President-Legit though. I mean, they basically told Trump to pound sand when he gave the order to withdraw last year. Perhaps there is some consolation activity coming up.

  84. @Reg Cæsar
    @Altai


    These teenage boys aren’t fleeing death, they are trying to see if they can file a spurious asylum claim.
     
    On the other hand, there are thousands of teenage boys who might have had a less-than-spurious asylum claim. But life just got better for them.

    Replies: @Pericles

    We already have taken in many thousands of teenage boys, and a lot of older guys too, without even spurious claims. So just send’em to Sweden! They can probably even walk if need be, like in 2015.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Pericles

    I hear Canada is short of warm bodies to admit.
    The US should also start up a el cheapo version of Air America and fly all the Mexican invaders from Texas to Ottawa.

    Replies: @GomezAdddams

    , @Anonymous
    @Pericles


    So just send’em to Sweden! They can probably even walk if need be, like in 2015.
     
    In 2015??

    There are still refugee camps in Southeast Europe bursting at the seams, mostly with Afghans and Pakistanis. Previously safe cities and towns near these wretched camps have turned into shitholes where locals feel uneasy walking the streets, even in broad daylight. And now the US has ordered Albania and Kosovo to accept thousands of Afghan refugees, basically saving them much of that long trip, so they can promptly join their brothers on their trek to Western Europe.

    Sweden and Germany really should just be flying them over directly. It's not like they actually plan to stop immigration from such hellholes anyway.

    Replies: @Pericles

  85. @aNewBanner
    Sure the Taliban live there, but it’s not like they live there alone. The Northern Alliance gave them a fight pre-9/11. Kabul increased in size from 500k to 4500k in the last 20 years. The Taliban had something like 75k troops in the field vs 300k government forces. The Taliban could have easily been stopped if there was sufficient resistance from the broader population.

    It did not happen. There was no resistance. Popular support for the government was nil. Their armies melted away, their leaders abandoned them, and there were massive civilian crowds welcoming the Taliban as liberators restoring their ancient liberties and their way of life against a hostile alien power.

    In short, we are witnessing an actual democratic revolution against an oligarchical regime. It is going to be nasty and brutal and not undeserved against a useless, parasitic elite. Let’s not get drawn into the pointless blamecasting between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. Instead, let’s focus on how the Taliban accomplished victory, and see if their are useful lessons for our situation.

    Replies: @George, @dearieme

    Let’s not get drawn into the pointless blamecasting between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party.

    Ah, so that will be the Dem party line.

  86. @jtgw
    @Desiderius

    I agree with you in general. I don't think American elites have the stomach to do what it takes to build a nation like that.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Nor do they have the wits or spirit to build or even maintain one like this.

    Then again they’re not elite, so who is ultimately at fault for them being in the positions they’re in?

    No, it is our job to pay that attention. We failed.

  87. @Altai
    I think what's even more interesting about all this is that despite having 20 years to do it, the modern neoliberal system was incapable of forming a functional government. That the last president of Afghanistan was a World Bank guy says it all. (If you were serious about having a viable non-Taliban state you'd put the popular guy incharge but if your instinct is to constantly undermine societies, you put the World Bank guy in there)

    Because ultimately neoliberalism is about eschewing logic such as 'because we live here' or 'because he is my kin' or really accepting that nobody will die for Coca Cola. It's about leaving societies open to digestion from global capital. Turns out there is no amount of money in your bank account that can make you immune to bullet-through-head-itis. The triumph of neoliberalism is the triumph of 'right wing' economics (Read, individualist economics) and 'left wing' social politics (Read, individualist social policies) both of which stem from the wealthy elite since they remove any shackles of limits or responsibility on them.

    The Taliban are essentially the anti-lastmen.

    I genuinely think that the people running the US now are so protected from their self-serving narratives that everyone else should just submit to their desires that it sometimes surprises them when they don't, they don't even comprehend why they do it, don't they know that perusing their interests is against their interests! And people like that are very dangerous, they don't know when they need to negotiate, the US should have negotiated with the Taliban to give them autonomy in the tribal highlands and left something like a UN force to protect the lowlands. Instead it set about an impossible task of stopping the Taliban without realising that there is no 'Taliban' it's just the tribal people in the uplands. 'Stopping' them required genocide. Just like Vietnam.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Bardon Kaldian, @Jack D, @donut, @J.Ross, @Kratoklastes

    Agree, and to this point: You remember Biden’s man Jefferson? Minimally Re-aninated Corpse Joseph Biden put Jefferson in charge of sweeping up at the Pentagon. Jefferson has just confirmed that he will not resign. We are actually starting to see anti-Biden and anti-Harris stories in mainstream lyingpress outlets.
    Question: would Nu-Afghanistan still have failed, or as quickly and completely, without the Merkelboner? Nu-Afghanistan was probably always doomed, but it was (redundantly, how German) specifically murdered by Merkel. The Taliban were never going to leave. The one hope Nu-Afghanistan ever had to be a globohomo society left the country in the Gucci bags of all those “refugees” welcomed into Europe.

  88. @Peter Akuleyev
    This is was summed up by Erik D'Amato in his very worthwhile article about Hungary (https://quillette.com/2021/08/13/20-hungarian-lessons-the-west-is-still-missing/)

    "Internationalists flee, nationalists fight.".

    That is exactly what is going on in Afghanistan. All the people we have raised to be good little Westerners just want to get the hell out of Dodge, not one of them is willing to fight to keep the Taliban out of their homes. The Taliban see Afghanistan as their land and are willing to die for it. The more we trained and educated Afghanis, the softer we made them. How do you possibly win that battle?

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Last bit about training’s somewhat unfair: let’s not forget how often or how effective the “soft” ANA was at killing American soldiers.

  89. @Jack D
    @Altai


    the US should have negotiated with the Taliban
     
    The US did negotiate with the Taliban but it couldn't make a deal because the Taliban weren't ultimately interested in making a deal. They were interested in winning the war. That's the best "deal" of all - war is diplomacy by other means. If I am winning the poker game and am going to take all the chips if I just keep playing for a little while longer, what kind of "deal" is it if you offer me half the chips?

    The Taliban won the war because they wanted it more than the other side and they fought for it and were able to fight for it. All the nice NGO ladies and lady schoolteachers and so on wanted a modern Afghanistan but they couldn't find enough Afghan men who were willing and able to fight and die for their vision of Afghanistan as a modern democracy. Dying for Allah is one thing. Dying for the World Wildlife Fund or something - no way.

    TBH, that part of the world is really short on modern democracies (although Pakistan is somewhat democratic, the military really runs in more than the nominal elected leaders). If Afghanistan had been a more ethnically uniform place like Tajikistan we could have found some non-Islamist tough guy to be the dictator and kick everyone's ass, including the Taliban. But it's not - the best we could have hoped for was to back a bunch of regional ethnic warlords but these guys are unlovable (for good reasons) and no one in Washington was really excited about such a plan when you could talk about schools for girls and stuff like that instead.

    Meanwhile, all these nice NGO ladies and lady school teachers and stuff that we left behind in Kabul are literally in mortal danger. The Taliban is not above killing people like this. The only question is how many will die. Aside from feeling sorry for them, this is bad for American interests because it sends a message to American allies in other countries that when the shit hits the fan the US will not protect you. This is not a message you want to send to your allies.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @Johann Ricke, @Bizarro World Observer, @Bert, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Anonymous, @Houston 1992

    the assumption you make is that changing Afghanis is an an American interest even if it were possible.

    Plomin data, MN Twin Studies indicate strongly that people cannot be changed in any meaningful way.

    The real American interest that was lost was when we decided to throw away trillions and thousands of lives on “nation building” versus nation sustaining here at home.

    Nations are born, and not made, although circumstances may allow nations to reveal themselves for good or ill

  90. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Morton's toes

    Ha! 5 to one odds no one in America will give a shit about Afghanistan 6 months from now. Biden has actually played this exactly right so far - an American withdrawal with no American casualties is the way to do it. I know the MSM is frothing at the mouth for us to exchange 1000 American lives to allow another 100,000 Afghan men to come live with us, but I don't think most American voters feel the same way.

    Replies: @Houston 1992, @J.Ross

    The Dems will want to import interpreters and enrich red districts with them. Expect that to play out over years

  91. Biden did the right thing. The occupation dragged on too long. He’s got serious chops.

    • Agree: Not Raul
  92. @Arclight
    Not sure how anyone thought you could take a resource-poor country stuffed full of competing primitive tribes and turn it into anything at all - or why you'd even try.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    \$2T is a powerful motivator.

    We elected the check-scratchers, and they’re still convinced that they’ll be back in power soon.

  93. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Morton's toes

    Ha! 5 to one odds no one in America will give a shit about Afghanistan 6 months from now. Biden has actually played this exactly right so far - an American withdrawal with no American casualties is the way to do it. I know the MSM is frothing at the mouth for us to exchange 1000 American lives to allow another 100,000 Afghan men to come live with us, but I don't think most American voters feel the same way.

    Replies: @Houston 1992, @J.Ross

    He screwed up by having to undo everything Trump did out of tantrum rather than undoing a few things with a good reason and a plan. The personnel aren’t home yet and the Taliban might decide to complicate that, possibly including burial. Had Biden controlled his truly idiotic generals (who wanted to stay forever) and kept to Trump’s agreement, he would have a better version of the same result: there’d be no danger of revenge killings or a Carter-parallelling hostage mess, and the lyingpress would still give Biden all the credit anyway. Now the lyingpress is actually presuming to criticize the government.

  94. Biden should hear from us.

    The racist left are among those who are criticizing him. Biden isn’t beholden to their philosophy. He’ll take supporters wherever they’re offered.

    This is our chance to celebrate him and get noticed for doing so.

    It’s also honest.

    If the Republicans think they own us they will never do anything for us. Faith without works is dead. Biden did the work, let’s pause to applaud and scare the Hannity Hacks in the process.

  95. Anonymous[658] • Disclaimer says:

    Why are people blindly repeating, ” US to send 7000 troops to Afghanistan. ” ?

    Where exactly is this ? Do you think the Taliban soldiers after 20 years of sacrifice and devastation are going to allow a massive US force to land ?They will be shelling the hell out of the only remaining unoccupied airport the instant the US attempts to land and quarter 7K troops in Kabul that has just fallen.

    No military man is that stupid. Theyll fire on every incoming plane until the enemy has quit the airport.

    Right now they will be surrounding the airport gauging the real remaining US ground force opposing them.

    Do newsreaders know what war is, or just parroting government pronouncements.

    • Replies: @Joe Stalin
    @Anonymous


    No military man is that stupid. Theyll fire on every incoming plane until the enemy has quit the airport.
     
    Ever hear of a little place in Vietnam called Khe Sahn?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb1YDpO2f9I

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vDgBNFpQEs

    Note that the USA government listened to all the Kumbaya lefties and destroyed all those B-52G "Big Belly" bombers to comply with the non-binding SALT II accords that the Congress hadn't approved of so those B-52Gs are no longer with USAF.
  96. Because they live there is right, but there’s something else. We will be subjected to endless analyses by talking pretty heads who barely know where Afghanistan is, about how we lost and they won. It is almost as if we had a right to be there, in Pakistan, and all the other countries outside our sphere of influence.

    We did not lose. Our force projection overreached and it failed. Look for more of this in the weeks and months ahead as both the empire and the dementia presidency come unraveled.

  97. Never wave the “Pride” flag in front of Abdul Abullbull Amir

  98. Many in the media have made expressions of sympathy and appreciation have been made for the men and women who gave their lives and limbs. I strongly join them, of course. But I will add something to “men and women.” Many explosives-detection and building-clearance military dogs made the ultimate sacrifice. They saved countless human lives and limbs. Man’s best friend…I thank you.

  99. Why did we invade Afghanistan in the first place?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @ginger bread man

    To enable Deep State pedophiles to become more wealthy.

  100. Taki Mag has an outstanding article today by Z-Man concerning the Disaster in the Sand…

  101. The Afghanistan population Almost doubled since 2001, from 20 million to 38 million. In contrast the Afghanistan population actually declined from 1980 -1990 when they were fighting the Russians.

    The US occupation of Afghanistan helped increase their GDP from \$2.5 Billion in 2001 to \$20 Billion in 2020.

    According to the department of Defense the war in Afghanistan cost US taxpayers \$781 Billion and the US state department and other agencies spent another \$145 Billion on reconstruction projects…

    The US has spent more on Afghan reconstruction in real dollars than we spent rebuilding Europe under the Marshal Plan . The Marshal Plan spent \$10 Billion (\$105 Billion in adjusted dollars) while we have spent \$145 rebuilding Afghanistan.

  102. The most outrageous aspect of this is the armored Humvees, helicopters and planes paid for by the U.S. taxpayer now in the hands of the Taliban. Someone I know in the military wrecked a Humvee during training in Germany–his COs forced him to pay the government back. Ha ha ha. As for Afghanistan itself, this is a positive–no more rainbow flags, no more gender equity propaganda created by blue-haired freaks in the Pentagon and USAID, no more trans acceptance bullshit. This is a huge blow against Western Trotskyites who attached sexual psychosis onto Leon’s old permanent revolution theories.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Bragadocious

    Are you serious? Under what circumstances did he wreck the vehicle during training? Was he inebriated, disobeying orders?

    Replies: @Bragadocious

  103. @Flemur
    Then I understood: the generals’ metrics of success for the Afghan security forces we were assigned to train were only aspirational.

    Average Afghan IQ = about 84 = the lowest cut-off point for enlisting in the US military.

    Why Did the Taliban Win? Because They Live There

    The anti-Taliban also live there, so why didn't they also win?

    My guess is that it's because the Taliban is more popular than the anti-Taliban, and that this is just an exercise in perverted democracy.

    Replies: @Bill

    One side rapes boys kind of a lot. Hint: it’s our side.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Bill

    It's both sides. The Taliban oppose it as un-Islamic, but they're still Afghans, and to Afghans bacha bazi is like candy. Easy to swear off it, very hard to actually quit.

  104. If an organization like the UN had any value they would declare a Taliban led government an emergency and would bring in every member country to team up to destroy the Taliban. When I see pictures of Kabul from the 70s with women wearing mini skirts and now see how the Taliban has them wearing burkas it is very upsetting to me. I can’t believe in my lifetime a country would go from modern to backwards. It should always be the other way around. I would support any action to end the Taliban including nuking Afghanistan if that’s what it takes.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Jay Fink

    This comment is so preternaturally Hebraic its lines should scan the other way.

    , @Mark G.
    @Jay Fink


    When I see pictures of Kabul from the 70s with women wearing mini skirts and now see how the Taliban has them wearing burkas it is very upsetting to me. I can’t believe in my lifetime a country would go from modern to backwards.

     

    The modern westernized women living in the cities wearing mini skirts didn't have as many children as the non-westernized women who weren't wearing them and their descendants became a shrinking minority in the country. This is happening not just in Afghanistan. If you want a modern and advanced civilization you need to have policies in place that encourages the births of the type of people who can create and maintain that kind of civilization or at least discourages the births of the kind of people who can't.
    , @Jack D
    @Jay Fink

    The women in Kabul wearing miniskirts were always a small minority. Most of the women were out in the countryside and were covered if not necessarily wearing Taliban style burkas. But if you apply 50 years of differential birthrates, they are an even smaller minority. From the 1970s until now, Afghanistan's population has quadrupled and most of the increase was among the NON miniskirt wearing crowd.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Hibernian

  105. @Dennis Dale
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    No. The Taliban has no interest in or capability for invading other countries.
    This is cope--pointless cope. I can relate. I once loved the country too, and this would have hurt very badly then, and I would have hated the glee with which some are greeting it, and would have wished they would soon eat their words.
    But love of a country is a funny thing...

    Replies: @Alfa158, @Jack D

    …. it’s hard to continue loving your country when it hates you.

    • Agree: megabar
    • Thanks: Dennis Dale
    • Replies: @Kjr
    @Alfa158

    The country doesn't hate you. Even the rulers don't hate you. They just pay you no mind. I only fly the flag abroad where it refers to my homeland. I do not fly it at home where it refers to the system of government (which I don't believe in which is why I personally don't vote).

    But your fellow subjects don't hate you. We don't. The people of this land are a generous, kind and good people. Meet them. We're in this together.



    But We The People need a revolution.

    Here's a good place to start:

    What do we, and the black community, both agree on.

    We can have a revolution against the insecure twitterati whose entire power vanishes when the curtain is drawn back. They are all under 35 and mostly female. They have no real power once they have to show their faces.

    So, being as we all agree that our government does not represent us and that our current constitution with all its judicial interpretations ensures that it can not ever represent us - we need a revolution.

    A New Declaration Of Independence.

    But unless you want to live in Idaho with Richard Spencer you're going to have to get most of the rest of the country on board.

    Excluding anybody worth over 50 million dollars, what do we all want.

    If we have no major common demands that accord with the demands of the denizens of the country's inner cities then we are just whining for whining's sake. And there's little honor in that

    So what does 99% of the country agree on. On that Plymouth Rock we will build our church.

  106. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/LucasKunceMO/status/1427000115051601937?s=20

    Pinsen's Twitter the best there is.

    Replies: @obwandiyag

    Yes, but, if they had kept the trillions they spent in Afghanistan here at home, they wouldn’t have spent it on you anyhow–because that would be socialism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

  107. Serious question: Is it the Big Army training programs that always lead to such drastic underperformance by indigenous forces? Are we trying to teach them to fight “our way” when another model might serve the Third World better? Does SF have a better track record with their FID training, but it’s on too small a scale to affect overall events?

    I’m really trying to understand why “our guys” (who also “live there”) always collapse like a house of cards, despite billions of dollars of equipment and thousands of hours of training provided by Uncle Sugar.

    ARVN in 1975, the Iraqi Army vs ISIS, and now this debacle….

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @SteveRogers42

    I thought about this looking at Hizbullah vs al-Qaeda. I think it's because their guys need to be able to stand up (or march sixty miles on a handful of uncooked rice, or whatever isn't licking a spoon) while the primary criterion for our guys is controllability. Here however none of the experts had any understanding of Afghanistan and did not care to learn, so there's also the fact that it's really one group with a variety of ranks. The ANA is essentially the Taliban playing the US, and the visible Taliban is the regular services, and women and children are the Taliban's support corps.

  108. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan
    https://twitter.com/engfahadsabir/status/1427172595191984131

    MASHALLAH!

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    Communists and their Whig view of history continuously fails in the face of reality.

  109. @Alfa158
    @Dennis Dale

    …. it’s hard to continue loving your country when it hates you.

    Replies: @Kjr

    The country doesn’t hate you. Even the rulers don’t hate you. They just pay you no mind. I only fly the flag abroad where it refers to my homeland. I do not fly it at home where it refers to the system of government (which I don’t believe in which is why I personally don’t vote).

    But your fellow subjects don’t hate you. We don’t. The people of this land are a generous, kind and good people. Meet them. We’re in this together.

    But We The People need a revolution.

    Here’s a good place to start:

    What do we, and the black community, both agree on.

    We can have a revolution against the insecure twitterati whose entire power vanishes when the curtain is drawn back. They are all under 35 and mostly female. They have no real power once they have to show their faces.

    So, being as we all agree that our government does not represent us and that our current constitution with all its judicial interpretations ensures that it can not ever represent us – we need a revolution.

    A New Declaration Of Independence.

    But unless you want to live in Idaho with Richard Spencer you’re going to have to get most of the rest of the country on board.

    Excluding anybody worth over 50 million dollars, what do we all want.

    If we have no major common demands that accord with the demands of the denizens of the country’s inner cities then we are just whining for whining’s sake. And there’s little honor in that

    So what does 99% of the country agree on. On that Plymouth Rock we will build our church.

    • LOL: 3g4me
  110. @Dennis Dale
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    No. The Taliban has no interest in or capability for invading other countries.
    This is cope--pointless cope. I can relate. I once loved the country too, and this would have hurt very badly then, and I would have hated the glee with which some are greeting it, and would have wished they would soon eat their words.
    But love of a country is a funny thing...

    Replies: @Alfa158, @Jack D

    The Taliban has no interest in or capability for invading other countries.

    They had no interest in doing so in 2001 either but neither did they have any interest in discipling their honored Muslim guest, Bid Laden and his merry band of rogues as they planned a program of international terrorism from Afghan soil. While the Taliban’s goals are to impose an Islamic Khalifate in Afghanistan, they are sympathetic to the idea of a Khalifate everywhere. While MAYBE their experience in the last 20 years chastened them from repeating this exercise, their natural sympathy is with Muslims who are trying to bring about a Khalifate anywhere and everywhere.

    • Replies: @Dennis Dale
    @Jack D

    If disrupting Islamic terrorism or preventing the "global caliphate" is your goal, bomb Hamburg. It was and remains a far more important location for their campaign.

    Frying a bunch of gentile Krauts will cheer you as well.

    Sorry, couldn't help myself.

    , @Anonymous
    @Jack D

    Surely, the proper and real answer to all that is a total prohibition of third world immigration to the west, and a serious program of compulsory repatriation of those already settled in the west.

  111. @Jack D
    @Dennis Dale


    The Taliban has no interest in or capability for invading other countries.
     
    They had no interest in doing so in 2001 either but neither did they have any interest in discipling their honored Muslim guest, Bid Laden and his merry band of rogues as they planned a program of international terrorism from Afghan soil. While the Taliban's goals are to impose an Islamic Khalifate in Afghanistan, they are sympathetic to the idea of a Khalifate everywhere. While MAYBE their experience in the last 20 years chastened them from repeating this exercise, their natural sympathy is with Muslims who are trying to bring about a Khalifate anywhere and everywhere.

    Replies: @Dennis Dale, @Anonymous

    If disrupting Islamic terrorism or preventing the “global caliphate” is your goal, bomb Hamburg. It was and remains a far more important location for their campaign.

    Frying a bunch of gentile Krauts will cheer you as well.

    Sorry, couldn’t help myself.

    • LOL: Gordo
  112. @Anonymous
    Why are people blindly repeating, " US to send 7000 troops to Afghanistan. " ?

    Where exactly is this ? Do you think the Taliban soldiers after 20 years of sacrifice and devastation are going to allow a massive US force to land ?They will be shelling the hell out of the only remaining unoccupied airport the instant the US attempts to land and quarter 7K troops in Kabul that has just fallen.

    No military man is that stupid. Theyll fire on every incoming plane until the enemy has quit the airport.

    Right now they will be surrounding the airport gauging the real remaining US ground force opposing them.

    Do newsreaders know what war is, or just parroting government pronouncements.

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

    No military man is that stupid. Theyll fire on every incoming plane until the enemy has quit the airport.

    Ever hear of a little place in Vietnam called Khe Sahn?

    Note that the USA government listened to all the Kumbaya lefties and destroyed all those B-52G “Big Belly” bombers to comply with the non-binding SALT II accords that the Congress hadn’t approved of so those B-52Gs are no longer with USAF.

  113. @Jack D
    @jtgw

    The Soviets used to do stuff like that in Afghanistan but it still didn't gain them victory. You don't win a war by terrorizing the population unless you kill or displace the entire local male population and replace them with your own. You especially can't do that in a place where it's possible for the enemy to have a refuge and receive support across some border.

    Replies: @donut, @jtgw

    Good point about the refuge. Honestly that makes the most sense as explanation for why this could never work.

  114. One wonders whether the Taliban were aware of Milius’ Red Dawn. It was certainly good motivation for them.

  115. Jen Psaki last seen clinging to the wheels of Marine One as it left DC.#Afghanistan https://t.co/4vtEUN2Upx— Untethered (@UntetheredDale) August 16, 2021

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Dennis Dale

    I was hoping for a cartoon.

  116. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Anonymous

    Living free like a savage up and down the Mississippi River is one thing. Thinking you are going to get to a destination in one piece by holing up in the gear bay is just insanely stupid. What do they think, there's a Delta Sky Club lounge up in there? There are gear overheat loops and a place for the wheels - no space for some reckless moron.

    I understand your point about young boys and real freedom, but no, this is suicidal behavior.

    Replies: @Technite78, @AnonymousOP

    I wrote the previous comment and I stand by it. Yeah, it aint gonna work. I’m not saying they knew what they were doing. They took a risk for fun jumping into the void and because I applaud that I hope, somehow, a couple of them make it.

    Lemme tell ya where I’m coming from.

    I just this very moment stepped into a movie theatre to check whether there was anything good to sneak into. Seeing the VAX sign I figured I’d check that out first. As it is the only movie playing seems to be some sort of sickly childrens movie called Suicide Squad. Well, and Stillwater, but I already gratis’d my way into that one last week. (Broke my heart. I’m over it now, but if imperfect love, circumstances, adventure and foreign lands are your thing you’ll like it too. Oh and for once Damon isn’t a genius superman, just a simple man from Oklahoma. An Everyman with no clever lines. Just the same heart we all have. Watch it.)

    Right, so walking in just now they’ve got both a man and a woman standing at the door. Apologetically and obviously blushing from behind their muzzles they inform us that DeBlasio’s new faucism means that to enter the theatre we must show proof of vaccination with a photo ID.

    To see a movie.

    AD, JW and the other local faucists just creamed their pants. j/k faucists come pre-neutered.

    So who do I stand and applaud? The Americans hiding behind their masks and showing off their vaccination cards at arms length? Or the dumb boys who grabbed on to the landing gear of a fuckin plane l e a v i n g . t h e . c o u n t r y !!

    Hallelujah!

  117. @Anonymous
    @Altai

    Gotta say, this was my slightly slow own reaction to the liberal feminine NPC push today about huddled masses yearning to breathe/ride free (“He didn’t fly so good”):

    Isn’t holding onto the outside of a plane *after lift-off* kind of bone-headed as a last act? Can I say this ought not to be valorized, generally speaking? I mean, when someone high on bath salts jumps into a tank of pirhanas, that’s tragic too, but we must admit it is also unfortunately funny at the same time.

    At the end of “The Predator” reboot a guy jumps into a jet turbine whilst firing a gun at it and it was meta kino in this vein

    Replies: @What am I doing her


    Isn’t holding onto the outside of a plane *after lift-off* kind of bone-headed as a last act?”
    Yes. But it gives a great new twist to the old joke:

    “I just flew in from Kabul, and boy, are my arms tired!”

  118. @SteveRogers42
    Serious question: Is it the Big Army training programs that always lead to such drastic underperformance by indigenous forces? Are we trying to teach them to fight "our way" when another model might serve the Third World better? Does SF have a better track record with their FID training, but it's on too small a scale to affect overall events?

    I'm really trying to understand why "our guys" (who also "live there") always collapse like a house of cards, despite billions of dollars of equipment and thousands of hours of training provided by Uncle Sugar.

    ARVN in 1975, the Iraqi Army vs ISIS, and now this debacle....

    Replies: @J.Ross

    I thought about this looking at Hizbullah vs al-Qaeda. I think it’s because their guys need to be able to stand up (or march sixty miles on a handful of uncooked rice, or whatever isn’t licking a spoon) while the primary criterion for our guys is controllability. Here however none of the experts had any understanding of Afghanistan and did not care to learn, so there’s also the fact that it’s really one group with a variety of ranks. The ANA is essentially the Taliban playing the US, and the visible Taliban is the regular services, and women and children are the Taliban’s support corps.

    • Thanks: SteveRogers42
  119. @Jay Fink
    If an organization like the UN had any value they would declare a Taliban led government an emergency and would bring in every member country to team up to destroy the Taliban. When I see pictures of Kabul from the 70s with women wearing mini skirts and now see how the Taliban has them wearing burkas it is very upsetting to me. I can't believe in my lifetime a country would go from modern to backwards. It should always be the other way around. I would support any action to end the Taliban including nuking Afghanistan if that's what it takes.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Mark G., @Jack D

    This comment is so preternaturally Hebraic its lines should scan the other way.

  120. @Commentator Mike
    @Bill Jones

    Soon America will be flooded with Afghan "translators" most of whom don't speak any English.

    Replies: @Farenheit, @Gordo

    Soon America will be flooded with Afghan “translators” most of whom don’t speak any English

    ..and they’ll each buy a couple of 7-11s and a multi-million dollar house for cash…

  121. @Hangnail Hans
    @Jack D

    Who knows if or when Steve will release my post just before yours, but you've quoted that "institute" denizen almost verbatim. Weird huh.

    Replies: @Jack D

    No, it’s not at all strange. Us Joos all communicate with each other and set the agenda of the day thru the secret JooList mailed to us every morning by Mossad. It’s is like JournoList except better. I know I said it’s a secret but I know that I can tell you guys because no one will believe you anyway when you tell them that the Jews are coordinating all their efforts.

    Alternatively, the “institute guy” and I arrived at the same conclusion because we both applied the same process of deductive reasoning – if you screw one of your friends, you other friends may notice and no longer regard you as trustworthy.

    • Replies: @David Davenport
    @Jack D

    Alternatively, the “institute guy” and I arrived at the same conclusion because we both applied the same process of deductive reasoning – if you screw one of your friends, you other friends may notice and no longer regard you as trustworthy.

    Jack's worried about our friend, ally, and unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Levant.

  122. @ginger bread man
    Why did we invade Afghanistan in the first place?

    Replies: @J.Ross

    To enable Deep State pedophiles to become more wealthy.

  123. @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    There was no possible deal between the US and the Taliban. The Taliban bobbed and weaved at the negotiating table but ultimately there was no way that they were going to turn over a fellow Muslim to the infidels. It went against their every principle. Not that the US was really trying that hard to make a deal, but really there was no deal to be had with the Taliban, not then and not now. How do you make a deal with people who take their orders from Allah?
     
    I think we will get other bites at this apple. The Taliban are nothing if not megalomaniac. They sponsored the attacks on 9/11 despite knowing, from Saddam's experience during Desert Storm, that the US had the capability to inflict damage on them similar to the way in which the Soviets are estimated to have killed 1m Afghans during the Afghan-Soviet War. The human cost to Afghanistan of the American campaign is maybe 1/6 of the casualties the Soviets inflicted.

    Maybe they'll think that airplanes did not inflict enough damage to either cause the US to surrender or get Allah to intervene directly. Maybe they think nuclear detonations in a larger number of American cities will do the trick. Is it megalomania if they win?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Rob, @Adam Smith

    Maybe I am being naive, but I think the Taliban may have been truly chastened in the last 20 years. One of the guys sitting in the Presidential palace spent 8 years in Guantanamo and many of their brothers are NOT sitting there at all because they were blown to bit by some American airstrike. And they know what happened to Bid Laden, to Saddam, to lots of Jihadi guys. Not Desert Storm, but the sequel where they put a rope around Saddam’s neck and hung him. So they may have some inkling that the US has both the means and the willpower to go after you if you really piss them off. It’s one thing to “know” about Desert Storm and another thing to have the lived experience. Ruling Afghanistan is 99% of what they wanted to begin with. Sure they will always have a warm corner for Jihad in their hearts but maybe they’ve grown up enough to know when to hold ’em.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    Ruling Afghanistan is 99% of what they wanted to begin with.
     
    And yet, 9/11, on the same day they eliminated Ahmad Shah Massoud, the last obstacle to their conquest of Afghanistan. Our petty bourgeois preoccupations can't explain the motivations of people who strive towards world historical significance. It's like trying to explain what makes a mountaineer tick to an acrophobe.
    , @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D

    Taliban spokesperson on 8/14:

    http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/2108/14/cnr.10.html


    It's our belief that one day Mujahideen will have victory and Islamic law will come not to just Afghanistan but all over the world. We are not in a hurry. We believe it will come one day. Jihad will not end until the last day.
     
    I used to consider Taliban rhetoric sheer bravado. Since 9/11, I no longer do.
    , @Anonymous
    @Jack D

    Yep.

    - And what a price the USA paid for it all - ass-clown George W. Bush, the near death experience of the economy in 2008, $2 trillion at the very least of wasted money, economic stagnation, opioid epidemic, etc etc.

    Anyway, any good Muslim regards martyrdom at the hands of the kuffar as the supreme life event.

    As I repeat, the only real solution is an absolute prohibition on third world immigration to the west and the compulsory repatriation of those already here.

    Anything else is bullshit.

  124. @Dennis Dale

    Jen Psaki last seen clinging to the wheels of Marine One as it left DC.#Afghanistan https://t.co/4vtEUN2Upx— Untethered (@UntetheredDale) August 16, 2021
     

    Replies: @Jack D

    I was hoping for a cartoon.

  125. Law of Mass Shootings in action:
    44 people in NYC shot this weekend, including eight in one incident, most/all of the shootings in the ghetto, zero deaths.

  126. @Anon7
    "Why Did the Taliban Win? Because They Live There"

    Then why aren't we winning?

    Replies: @S. Anonyia

    Why? Look at many of the comments here on any articles about demographics. Always talk about why people should flee the coasts for boring exurbs and mountain enclaves. The minute things get a little rough many heritage Americans scurry away and try to insulate themselves. Simply standing your ground has a lot of psychological power.

  127. @Chrisnonymous
    @Ganderson

    Yes, the right-wing attack on Biden is dumb. The reconquest by the Taliban should be no surprise, and so nobody should be "blamed" for it. On the other hand, the pullout seems to have been seriously mishandled. But, like the mishandling of pandemic response, that is really a bureaucratic failing. The people who should be taking the heat for this are the "smart people" at State and in the uppee ranks of the military.

    Replies: @Ganderson

    Won’t let me hit the “agree” button, but I do agree.

  128. @Commentator Mike
    @Bill Jones

    Soon America will be flooded with Afghan "translators" most of whom don't speak any English.

    Replies: @Farenheit, @Gordo

    Soon America will be flooded with Afghan “translators” most of whom don’t speak any English.

    Small boys in 5-Eyes need to be especially careful now.

  129. Why all the fuss? Afghanistan was an overwhelming success. It allowed the Pentagon to bloat the budget for 20 years. Defense contractors raked in the profits. American casualties numbered under 4,000 in all that time. The plan was never to “win”, that would have ended the bonanza. The plan was always to keep the conflict going at a low enough level to keep the gravy train running without too much threat of “ending the conflict”. When the “war” became politically and economically sour, they simply left without plan. Next is “Iraqxit”, just wait and see. The focus will now be on China and “saving Taiwan”. This time they will bite off more than they can chew, however. The national credit cards are now maxed out over the mismanagement of the economy and the Covid fustercluck. What a bunch of amateurs.

  130. @prime noticer
    holy Fing F. the videos coming out of Afghanistan. total chaos. this makes Saigon look reasonable.

    nothing will ever top the video of those people falling off the airplanes taking off.

    easily the worst executed drawn down in US history. they didn't even bother to destroy any of their equipment on the way out. they just let enemy forces capture everything.

    Democrats. wow. apparently they even revealed secret agents in that white house briefing video by accidentally showing who they were and where they were on video conferences.

    it's crazy how wrong CIA was about the chances of total collapse and time scales here. that's a big part of how everybody in this moron government got so surprised at what happened. too busy with Critical Race Theory and women with penises and telling us that white Christians are the biggest threat to democracy.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @Ian M.

    The US need only have organised their leaving when winter had set in to avoid this.

    • Replies: @sss
    @Triteleia Laxa

    That suggestion would take research, thought and planning.

    We no longer have those capabilities in our government, we have other more useless capabilities, like holding press conferences by spokesmen who have practiced the art of spewing college style essay vocuabulary.

    We are losing organizational capabilities. The government could not go to the Moon now, not due to technology inadequacy but due to the loss of organizational ability.

    This is what disturbs me about our departure. The departure itself was long overdue. But we could not plan it, we had no contingency plans, we still after 20 years did not understand the Taliban or Afghanistan and plan for their possible reactions. Someone must order a plan, think, work out the logistics, map out the contingencies. And this clearly was not done at all. I am guessing our geniuses in the government thought this was done, just like going forward, they will assume maintenance was done on the ship or plane, while never having ordered it, or checked into it.

  131. @Bragadocious
    The most outrageous aspect of this is the armored Humvees, helicopters and planes paid for by the U.S. taxpayer now in the hands of the Taliban. Someone I know in the military wrecked a Humvee during training in Germany--his COs forced him to pay the government back. Ha ha ha. As for Afghanistan itself, this is a positive--no more rainbow flags, no more gender equity propaganda created by blue-haired freaks in the Pentagon and USAID, no more trans acceptance bullshit. This is a huge blow against Western Trotskyites who attached sexual psychosis onto Leon's old permanent revolution theories.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Are you serious? Under what circumstances did he wreck the vehicle during training? Was he inebriated, disobeying orders?

    • Replies: @Bragadocious
    @Anonymous

    He was doing something unauthorized is the story I got.

  132. @NJ Transit Commuter
    China, Iran, Pakistan and Russia are laughing at America now, and deservedly so.
    We’ll see how long that lasts. There is now a destabilized, radicalized country with billions of dollars of high tech US weapons now sitting on their border (or nearby in the case of Russia.)

    Imagine if we had to deal with Mexican cartels armed with Apache helicopters, Abrams tanks and 105 mm howitzers. That’s the new reality for Afghanistan’s neighbors.

    Replies: @Dennis Dale, @Alexander Turok

    Lack of ammo and spare parts will whittle down the utility of their new toys quickly, if they can even figure out how to use them.

  133. @Pericles
    @Reg Cæsar

    We already have taken in many thousands of teenage boys, and a lot of older guys too, without even spurious claims. So just send'em to Sweden! They can probably even walk if need be, like in 2015.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Anonymous

    I hear Canada is short of warm bodies to admit.
    The US should also start up a el cheapo version of Air America and fly all the Mexican invaders from Texas to Ottawa.

    • Replies: @GomezAdddams
    @Bill Jones

    Trudeau calls election Sept 20 and key item is to allow 85,000 ( 1% only) from Kabul to mixerize Ontatio. Follow that Money----those 1% are very wealthy but speak English with an American accent.

  134. @Patrick in SC
    I got a million problems with Joe Biden - including how he ended up in his current position - but this ain't one of 'em.

    This would have happened had we pulled out in 2005, 2011, 2018, or if we stayed until 2030.

    Right or wrong, I can see why Trump did a 180 after promising to get out of the place. The legitimate intel people probably told him he'd have a Saigon on his hands within weeks, and he just couldn't bear the optics.

    The lesson of the ascendancy of the Taliban is one we should have learned 100 times over but never will. People want to be who they are, not just consumers on the Globe-Hobo plantation. I've always said this is why North Korea has lasted as long as it has. Yes, the regime is oppressive, and that helps keep a lid on things. But it's also because a large number of fiercely nationalistic and proud Koreans would rather live in poverty and remain Korean than become thoroughly westernized - "Gangnam Style/K Pop."

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    The lesson of the ascendancy of the Taliban is one we should have learned 100 times over but never will. People want to be who they are, not just consumers on the Globe-Hobo plantation.

    The Ur-Western Greeks said this too:

    “Better a beggar on earth than a prince in the realm of shades.”
    The Odyssey

  135. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/EdAsante77/status/1427008744047718403?s=20

    Replies: @Altai, @AnotherDad, @Gabe Ruth

    Wouldn’t it have been easier to not let them come here?

    The pithiest statement of the stupidity behind this whole effort.

    Bush reacted to 911 by adding loving Muzzies along with his long time love of Mexicans. And since they had “issues”, venturing out to “fix” their world.

    Instead of the obvious, simple and humane approach: “Hey these people and us are oil and water, we need to keep ’em the hell outta the West.”

    911 was a great time to re-assess all the minoritarian stupidity of our age, and realize “separate nations for separate peoples” is a great idea.

    We needed a responsible nationalist … but we had Bush.

    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    @AnotherDad

    Two gigantic oceans and the North Friggin' Pole to keep the detritus out, but nooo...our betters decide to invade the world and invite the world.

  136. George W. Bush ,Dick Cheney ,Oh how I hate you.

  137. Afghanistan is one big shit sandwich, and we’re all going to have to take a bite. Russia took hers, and my friends lost many fathers. (Mine survived.)

    A wounded animal is twice as dangerous. The U.S. military, run by woke-tards, is poised to continue its insane ways, that’s for sure.

  138. @OracleY2K
    @Jack D

    I think it’s more them being 75 IQ morons who thought they could actually hold on all the way.

    Replies: @Honorary Jew

    “I think it’s more them being 75 IQ morons who thought they could actually hold on all the way.”

    Possibly. Afghanistan still at 38% literacy, so Western Europe around 1840 (not finding great literacy graphs)? Given measurable Flynn Effect over 20th Century, could be some stone busted-ass morons out in them streets, as Flynn Effect could have been yuuger 1840-1900, we just don’t know. Whether you came at Afghanis from HBD angle (it persists,) or just the Flynn Effect angle (it’s major,) you’re lookin’ at some of the lowest IQs out there. Nigeria–a large country–up to 62% literacy, which we didn’t even bother to jack Afghanistan up to, over 20 goddamn years.

  139. “Jacob Siegel”

    Was this guy there because he lost a bet or to fill some obscure quota?

    • LOL: Kjr

  140. [MORE]

  141. @Hangnail Hans
    This reminds me of something, but I just can't remember what....


    Taliban starts collecting weapons from civilians, claims people can feel safe under its rule


    The Taliban has started rounding up weapons belonging to civilians and those in the security profession, as the militant group firms up its control over the Afghan capital and thousands flee.

    On Monday, the Taliban started entering premises around the captured Afghan capital of Kabul and began seizing weapons. A representative of the militant group said that people no longer needed to keep weapons for safety, confirming that it had started collecting firearms.

    The Taliban official told Reuters that they understood why people kept weapons in the past but said there was no need anymore. The representative noted that the Taliban had no intention of harming innocent civilians.
     

    https://www.rt.com/news/532167-afghan-taliban-kabul-weapons/

    Replies: @Joe Stalin

    Taliban starts collecting weapons from civilians, claims people can feel safe under its rule

    Compare that to Iraq after the Coalition knocked over Saddam…

    In a significant retreat in American efforts to seize weapons held by Iraqi citizens, American and British officials said today that Iraqis would be allowed to keep AK-47 assault rifles in their homes and businesses.

    While American officials gave no public explanation for amending what had been a much tougher plan to rid postwar Iraq of heavy weapons, military officials have said they recognize the difficulties in disarming citizens at a time when Iraqis feel their security is still at risk.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/01/world/after-the-war-baghdad-iraqi-civilians-allowed-to-keep-assault-rifles.html

    Full-automatic honest-to-God Kalashnikovs; that’s more gun than the majority of Americans have.

  142. @AnotherDad
    @Desiderius


    Wouldn’t it have been easier to not let them come here?
     
    The pithiest statement of the stupidity behind this whole effort.

    Bush reacted to 911 by adding loving Muzzies along with his long time love of Mexicans. And since they had "issues", venturing out to "fix" their world.

    Instead of the obvious, simple and humane approach: "Hey these people and us are oil and water, we need to keep 'em the hell outta the West."

    911 was a great time to re-assess all the minoritarian stupidity of our age, and realize "separate nations for separate peoples" is a great idea.

    We needed a responsible nationalist ... but we had Bush.

    Replies: @SteveRogers42

    Two gigantic oceans and the North Friggin’ Pole to keep the detritus out, but nooo…our betters decide to invade the world and invite the world.

  143. @Jack D
    @Johann Ricke

    Maybe I am being naive, but I think the Taliban may have been truly chastened in the last 20 years. One of the guys sitting in the Presidential palace spent 8 years in Guantanamo and many of their brothers are NOT sitting there at all because they were blown to bit by some American airstrike. And they know what happened to Bid Laden, to Saddam, to lots of Jihadi guys. Not Desert Storm, but the sequel where they put a rope around Saddam's neck and hung him. So they may have some inkling that the US has both the means and the willpower to go after you if you really piss them off. It's one thing to "know" about Desert Storm and another thing to have the lived experience. Ruling Afghanistan is 99% of what they wanted to begin with. Sure they will always have a warm corner for Jihad in their hearts but maybe they've grown up enough to know when to hold 'em.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @Johann Ricke, @Anonymous

    Ruling Afghanistan is 99% of what they wanted to begin with.

    And yet, 9/11, on the same day they eliminated Ahmad Shah Massoud, the last obstacle to their conquest of Afghanistan. Our petty bourgeois preoccupations can’t explain the motivations of people who strive towards world historical significance. It’s like trying to explain what makes a mountaineer tick to an acrophobe.

  144. @Ganderson
    Any of you really shocked by the unfolding chaos? I can’t imagine there’s even one American charged with actually training Afghan troops who is even slightly surprised by this.

    I sense in a lot of right wing commentary an impulse to blame Dementia Joe for this Saigon-in-1975 replay- I’m not inclined to defend the guy myself, but, unless we were planning on staying another 20 years this was inevitable. GW made the mess, and Barry kept it going. I leave out the Donald, as I think he was trying to figure a way out. At least he didn’t expand our military footprint. We should have left in early 2002.

    BTW- former head of Central Command (and St. Paul’s own) Gen. Joe Votel was on NPR this morning doing his best Ralph Kramden/Quentin McHale “hammana hammana hammana….”

    The current crop of senior officers make the guys who ran the Vietnam War look like Pattons and MacArthurs.

    The donkeys, as General Smuts described the upper echelons of the British Army during the Boer War, knew this would happen. It’s ok, though, they have their defense contractor jobs and think tank sinecures to fall back on. Too bad families that had their fathers, brothers, and sons killed and wounded don’t have the same fall back position.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous, @SteveRogers42

    This whole episode makes Vietnam look like a miracle of good planning and sound judgment.

    • Agree: Ganderson, Hibernian
  145. @Anonymous
    @Altai

    Assuming those planes aren't heading to the US, some of those boys may make it.

    I applaud them.

    Not for "escaping" or "desiring freedom" or some bullhooey like that but for having fun and living to tell about it.

    The West has too many laws and has too much fun with their "darwin award" laugheries and such.

    I love those boys who gave it a go and hope that a couple of them make it.

    I watched The Man Who Would Be King on Steve's suggestion and positively loved it. It was no tragedy but a celebration of the life and glorious death of A Great Man. There are no morals in the tale, as there aren't in Huckleberry Finn.

    They teach you Huckleberry Finn in school as a preventative vaccine against finding the scroll later in life and going off on similar adventures of your own.

    Twain foresaw this danger and attempted - unsuccessful - to stave it off by granting his opening page of the book to the following few lines.


    NOTICE
    Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot.

    By order of the author,
    Per G.G., Chief of Ordnance
     

    People laughing at those boys or mourning them or attributing their deaths to the moral failures of this or that group of people have no life left in them and are but surplus meat farting into the ozone.

    Thise brave awesome boys however are humanity's pride and I, for one, celebrate them.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @SteveRogers42, @SteveRogers42

    Average IQ in Afghanistan = 84.

    And half of them are dumber than that.

  146. @Altai
    I think what's even more interesting about all this is that despite having 20 years to do it, the modern neoliberal system was incapable of forming a functional government. That the last president of Afghanistan was a World Bank guy says it all. (If you were serious about having a viable non-Taliban state you'd put the popular guy incharge but if your instinct is to constantly undermine societies, you put the World Bank guy in there)

    Because ultimately neoliberalism is about eschewing logic such as 'because we live here' or 'because he is my kin' or really accepting that nobody will die for Coca Cola. It's about leaving societies open to digestion from global capital. Turns out there is no amount of money in your bank account that can make you immune to bullet-through-head-itis. The triumph of neoliberalism is the triumph of 'right wing' economics (Read, individualist economics) and 'left wing' social politics (Read, individualist social policies) both of which stem from the wealthy elite since they remove any shackles of limits or responsibility on them.

    The Taliban are essentially the anti-lastmen.

    I genuinely think that the people running the US now are so protected from their self-serving narratives that everyone else should just submit to their desires that it sometimes surprises them when they don't, they don't even comprehend why they do it, don't they know that perusing their interests is against their interests! And people like that are very dangerous, they don't know when they need to negotiate, the US should have negotiated with the Taliban to give them autonomy in the tribal highlands and left something like a UN force to protect the lowlands. Instead it set about an impossible task of stopping the Taliban without realising that there is no 'Taliban' it's just the tribal people in the uplands. 'Stopping' them required genocide. Just like Vietnam.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Bardon Kaldian, @Jack D, @donut, @J.Ross, @Kratoklastes

    I genuinely think that the people running the US now are so protected from their self-serving narratives that everyone else should just submit to their desires that it sometimes surprises them when they don’t, they don’t even comprehend why they do it, don’t they know that [pursuing ?] their interests is against their interests

    If you really want to see someone scratching their head, James Thompson’s latest brain-fart (elsewhere on this site) really shows someone fumbling about in the dark with a blindfold on and a carrot up their arse: selon Thompson, the Taliban won because Afghani are too stupid to be trained.

    Seriously. That passes for logic in the modern Western psychosophaster.

    So Thompson’s ‘thesis’ (to the extent that something that incoherent deserves to be treated epistemically) is that the Graveyard of Empires is full of people too stupid to tie their own shoelaces… when over the last two centuries they have comprehensively defeated the British Empire, the Soviet Empire, and now the US Death Machine.

    For fuck’s sake.

    As someone with a brain not infected with psychobabble Retardium pointed out recently: the Taliban madrassas in Pakistan are more selective than the US Ivies.

    You and I might think that what they were studying is primitive bullshit, but the people doing it were in the top percent or so of their populations… and so the Taliban leadership can be expected to be genuinely a cognitive élite.

  147. the [politicians’] metrics of success for the [cannon fodder] we (credentialed babysittes) were assigned to train were only aspirational. The [students] would never meet them; that was why [taxpayers] ..

    keep spending trillions more.

  148. @Anonymous
    @Altai

    Assuming those planes aren't heading to the US, some of those boys may make it.

    I applaud them.

    Not for "escaping" or "desiring freedom" or some bullhooey like that but for having fun and living to tell about it.

    The West has too many laws and has too much fun with their "darwin award" laugheries and such.

    I love those boys who gave it a go and hope that a couple of them make it.

    I watched The Man Who Would Be King on Steve's suggestion and positively loved it. It was no tragedy but a celebration of the life and glorious death of A Great Man. There are no morals in the tale, as there aren't in Huckleberry Finn.

    They teach you Huckleberry Finn in school as a preventative vaccine against finding the scroll later in life and going off on similar adventures of your own.

    Twain foresaw this danger and attempted - unsuccessful - to stave it off by granting his opening page of the book to the following few lines.


    NOTICE
    Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot.

    By order of the author,
    Per G.G., Chief of Ordnance
     

    People laughing at those boys or mourning them or attributing their deaths to the moral failures of this or that group of people have no life left in them and are but surplus meat farting into the ozone.

    Thise brave awesome boys however are humanity's pride and I, for one, celebrate them.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @SteveRogers42, @SteveRogers42

    It would be even more impressive if these military-age males had actually — you know — stood and fought.

  149. @Jack D
    @Johann Ricke

    Maybe I am being naive, but I think the Taliban may have been truly chastened in the last 20 years. One of the guys sitting in the Presidential palace spent 8 years in Guantanamo and many of their brothers are NOT sitting there at all because they were blown to bit by some American airstrike. And they know what happened to Bid Laden, to Saddam, to lots of Jihadi guys. Not Desert Storm, but the sequel where they put a rope around Saddam's neck and hung him. So they may have some inkling that the US has both the means and the willpower to go after you if you really piss them off. It's one thing to "know" about Desert Storm and another thing to have the lived experience. Ruling Afghanistan is 99% of what they wanted to begin with. Sure they will always have a warm corner for Jihad in their hearts but maybe they've grown up enough to know when to hold 'em.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @Johann Ricke, @Anonymous

    Taliban spokesperson on 8/14:

    http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/2108/14/cnr.10.html

    It’s our belief that one day Mujahideen will have victory and Islamic law will come not to just Afghanistan but all over the world. We are not in a hurry. We believe it will come one day. Jihad will not end until the last day.

    I used to consider Taliban rhetoric sheer bravado. Since 9/11, I no longer do.

  150. @George
    "Why Did the Taliban Win? Because They Live There"

    Why didn't the Taliban conquer Afghanistan in the 90s? I remember the name General Dostum from that period. Last week he reappeared as a fat old man. Then there was a video of the Taliban in his Villa sitting on his chair and playing with the light switches.

    No mention in any of the analyses I have seen mention the amount of money siphoned off into Northern Virginia. While the NATO/US top line spending number was enormous, once you consider the leakage, the Taliban just outspent the US/NATO.

    Far from being isolated the Taliban probably had lots of covert support from the other -stan countries and China Russia Iran.

    Replies: @Kratoklastes

    Far from being isolated the Taliban probably had lots of covert support from the other -stan countries and China Russia Iran.

    Gay cope.

    The US got beat. By its former pets (the US armed, trained and funded the mujaheddin during the 80s in order to win a pissing contest against the Soviets).

    The US was always going to get beat – unless it flat-out committed genocide, which would be a hard sell to the punters and the ‘global community’.

    Everyone who tries to occupy Afghanistan, gets beat.

    That’s why the fucking place is called “The Graveyard of Empires“.

    More to the point: everybody knows that insurgents always win because all they have to do is keep a low-lethality presence (and they’re better placed to develop networks, given that it’s their home ground). IEDs FTW.

    Everybody understands 4G war nowadays – they teach the basic theory at West Point, for fuck’s sake. William S Lind used to teach his stuff, and I think John Robb also had a stint lecturing.

    The Viet Cong didn’t need Chinese or Soviet support (although they did have some) either: as Tet showed, they were everywhere. The US spent massive resources trying to convince its own population that its generals knew what the fuck they were doing – almost all of it a gigantic gallimaufry of lies.

    Anyhow… let’s hope that the next strategic fuckup by the US military, winds up being its last.

    Go ahead – take on China or Russia. Nothing would please me more than to be alive for the end of the ‘CBG Era’ (the ‘Battleship Era’ ended in WWII).

    • Agree: 3g4me, GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Kratoklastes


    The Viet Cong didn’t need Chinese or Soviet support...
     
    That is a myth. They won; that doesn't mean they were ten feet tall.
  151. high birth rate probably explains most of it. every guy was able to make 4 or 5 more guys in just the 20 years the US tried to occupy the place. the population was 20 million when Bush invaded and 38 million when Biden pulled out. it almost doubled during the occupation. killing a few thousand of these guys every year didn’t even put a dent in their military capacity. enemy force numbers were growing every year instead of depleting.

  152. @prime noticer
    holy Fing F. the videos coming out of Afghanistan. total chaos. this makes Saigon look reasonable.

    nothing will ever top the video of those people falling off the airplanes taking off.

    easily the worst executed drawn down in US history. they didn't even bother to destroy any of their equipment on the way out. they just let enemy forces capture everything.

    Democrats. wow. apparently they even revealed secret agents in that white house briefing video by accidentally showing who they were and where they were on video conferences.

    it's crazy how wrong CIA was about the chances of total collapse and time scales here. that's a big part of how everybody in this moron government got so surprised at what happened. too busy with Critical Race Theory and women with penises and telling us that white Christians are the biggest threat to democracy.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa, @Ian M.

    white Christians are the biggest threat to democracy

    If only!

  153. @Anonymous
    @Bragadocious

    Are you serious? Under what circumstances did he wreck the vehicle during training? Was he inebriated, disobeying orders?

    Replies: @Bragadocious

    He was doing something unauthorized is the story I got.

  154. Average IQ in Afghanistan = 84.

    And half of them are dumber than that.

    Their hounds aren’t the sharpest tools in the kennel, either.

    These Are Probably the Dumbest Dog Breeds You’ll Ever Own

    Does Your Dog Make the List of the Dumbest Dog Breeds?

  155. One bright spot in this is watching the insurgency going on over there in MIGA twitter. Some prominent MIGApedes are expressing dismay their fan base is headed back to the GOPe neocon plantation – as if they ever left!

  156. Anonymous[102] • Disclaimer says:
    @Pericles
    @Reg Cæsar

    We already have taken in many thousands of teenage boys, and a lot of older guys too, without even spurious claims. So just send'em to Sweden! They can probably even walk if need be, like in 2015.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @Anonymous

    So just send’em to Sweden! They can probably even walk if need be, like in 2015.

    In 2015??

    There are still refugee camps in Southeast Europe bursting at the seams, mostly with Afghans and Pakistanis. Previously safe cities and towns near these wretched camps have turned into shitholes where locals feel uneasy walking the streets, even in broad daylight. And now the US has ordered Albania and Kosovo to accept thousands of Afghan refugees, basically saving them much of that long trip, so they can promptly join their brothers on their trek to Western Europe.

    Sweden and Germany really should just be flying them over directly. It’s not like they actually plan to stop immigration from such hellholes anyway.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Anonymous

    Sweden grew its population by 1.5% in 2015 just through migrant mania. Crazy, evil times.

  157. @Bill
    @Flemur

    One side rapes boys kind of a lot. Hint: it's our side.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    It’s both sides. The Taliban oppose it as un-Islamic, but they’re still Afghans, and to Afghans bacha bazi is like candy. Easy to swear off it, very hard to actually quit.

  158. @Jack D
    @Dennis Dale


    The Taliban has no interest in or capability for invading other countries.
     
    They had no interest in doing so in 2001 either but neither did they have any interest in discipling their honored Muslim guest, Bid Laden and his merry band of rogues as they planned a program of international terrorism from Afghan soil. While the Taliban's goals are to impose an Islamic Khalifate in Afghanistan, they are sympathetic to the idea of a Khalifate everywhere. While MAYBE their experience in the last 20 years chastened them from repeating this exercise, their natural sympathy is with Muslims who are trying to bring about a Khalifate anywhere and everywhere.

    Replies: @Dennis Dale, @Anonymous

    Surely, the proper and real answer to all that is a total prohibition of third world immigration to the west, and a serious program of compulsory repatriation of those already settled in the west.

  159. Anonymous[259] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    @Johann Ricke

    Maybe I am being naive, but I think the Taliban may have been truly chastened in the last 20 years. One of the guys sitting in the Presidential palace spent 8 years in Guantanamo and many of their brothers are NOT sitting there at all because they were blown to bit by some American airstrike. And they know what happened to Bid Laden, to Saddam, to lots of Jihadi guys. Not Desert Storm, but the sequel where they put a rope around Saddam's neck and hung him. So they may have some inkling that the US has both the means and the willpower to go after you if you really piss them off. It's one thing to "know" about Desert Storm and another thing to have the lived experience. Ruling Afghanistan is 99% of what they wanted to begin with. Sure they will always have a warm corner for Jihad in their hearts but maybe they've grown up enough to know when to hold 'em.

    Replies: @Johann Ricke, @Johann Ricke, @Anonymous

    Yep.

    – And what a price the USA paid for it all – ass-clown George W. Bush, the near death experience of the economy in 2008, \$2 trillion at the very least of wasted money, economic stagnation, opioid epidemic, etc etc.

    Anyway, any good Muslim regards martyrdom at the hands of the kuffar as the supreme life event.

    As I repeat, the only real solution is an absolute prohibition on third world immigration to the west and the compulsory repatriation of those already here.

    Anything else is bullshit.

  160. @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    There was no possible deal between the US and the Taliban. The Taliban bobbed and weaved at the negotiating table but ultimately there was no way that they were going to turn over a fellow Muslim to the infidels. It went against their every principle. Not that the US was really trying that hard to make a deal, but really there was no deal to be had with the Taliban, not then and not now. How do you make a deal with people who take their orders from Allah?
     
    I think we will get other bites at this apple. The Taliban are nothing if not megalomaniac. They sponsored the attacks on 9/11 despite knowing, from Saddam's experience during Desert Storm, that the US had the capability to inflict damage on them similar to the way in which the Soviets are estimated to have killed 1m Afghans during the Afghan-Soviet War. The human cost to Afghanistan of the American campaign is maybe 1/6 of the casualties the Soviets inflicted.

    Maybe they'll think that airplanes did not inflict enough damage to either cause the US to surrender or get Allah to intervene directly. Maybe they think nuclear detonations in a larger number of American cities will do the trick. Is it megalomania if they win?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Rob, @Adam Smith

    You Jews sure are bloodthirsty.

  161. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1427229499049996289?s=20

    Replies: @Bill B.

    I am reminded of the Billion Dollar Brain that was awesomely clever but also terribly stupid in its reliance on human honesty and hypothetical targets.

    At four minutes:

  162. @Tono Bungay
    I don't understand. Don't the Afghans who hated the Taliban live there, too?

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Wency

    Clearly they didn’t hate the Taliban nearly as much as the Taliban hates Globohomo.

  163. @Jay Fink
    If an organization like the UN had any value they would declare a Taliban led government an emergency and would bring in every member country to team up to destroy the Taliban. When I see pictures of Kabul from the 70s with women wearing mini skirts and now see how the Taliban has them wearing burkas it is very upsetting to me. I can't believe in my lifetime a country would go from modern to backwards. It should always be the other way around. I would support any action to end the Taliban including nuking Afghanistan if that's what it takes.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Mark G., @Jack D

    When I see pictures of Kabul from the 70s with women wearing mini skirts and now see how the Taliban has them wearing burkas it is very upsetting to me. I can’t believe in my lifetime a country would go from modern to backwards.

    The modern westernized women living in the cities wearing mini skirts didn’t have as many children as the non-westernized women who weren’t wearing them and their descendants became a shrinking minority in the country. This is happening not just in Afghanistan. If you want a modern and advanced civilization you need to have policies in place that encourages the births of the type of people who can create and maintain that kind of civilization or at least discourages the births of the kind of people who can’t.

  164. @Jack D
    @Hangnail Hans

    No, it's not at all strange. Us Joos all communicate with each other and set the agenda of the day thru the secret JooList mailed to us every morning by Mossad. It's is like JournoList except better. I know I said it's a secret but I know that I can tell you guys because no one will believe you anyway when you tell them that the Jews are coordinating all their efforts.

    Alternatively, the "institute guy" and I arrived at the same conclusion because we both applied the same process of deductive reasoning - if you screw one of your friends, you other friends may notice and no longer regard you as trustworthy.

    Replies: @David Davenport

    Alternatively, the “institute guy” and I arrived at the same conclusion because we both applied the same process of deductive reasoning – if you screw one of your friends, you other friends may notice and no longer regard you as trustworthy.

    Jack’s worried about our friend, ally, and unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Levant.

  165. Well, that explains why it’s not a good idea for conservatives to march on DC. We have to make them Come and Take It.

  166. @Jay Fink
    If an organization like the UN had any value they would declare a Taliban led government an emergency and would bring in every member country to team up to destroy the Taliban. When I see pictures of Kabul from the 70s with women wearing mini skirts and now see how the Taliban has them wearing burkas it is very upsetting to me. I can't believe in my lifetime a country would go from modern to backwards. It should always be the other way around. I would support any action to end the Taliban including nuking Afghanistan if that's what it takes.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Mark G., @Jack D

    The women in Kabul wearing miniskirts were always a small minority. Most of the women were out in the countryside and were covered if not necessarily wearing Taliban style burkas. But if you apply 50 years of differential birthrates, they are an even smaller minority. From the 1970s until now, Afghanistan’s population has quadrupled and most of the increase was among the NON miniskirt wearing crowd.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D

    What is so good about women from a traditionally conservative society wearing mini skirts and showing off their thighs and panties?

    It seems kind of disgusting to me at my advanced age.

    I was in London in the swinging sixties and the miniskirted girls certainly caught my sexual attention with their bare thighs, but can anybody really say that any good came from it in the long term?

    , @Hibernian
    @Jack D

    I was stationed at Bagram Air Field 2004-05, and the women wore full burqas in the countryside; this was not limited to Taliban areas, which were about 15% of the country at the time. When I was in Kabul one day, there were two women wearing mid calf length skirts; they were the ultra modern ones. Afghanistan, which some people wanted to transform into Switzerland, was not a good candidate even to transform into Egypt or Turkey, which, BTW, are getting less modern with each passing year, or at least they generally have been recently.

  167. @Triteleia Laxa
    @prime noticer

    The US need only have organised their leaving when winter had set in to avoid this.

    Replies: @sss

    That suggestion would take research, thought and planning.

    We no longer have those capabilities in our government, we have other more useless capabilities, like holding press conferences by spokesmen who have practiced the art of spewing college style essay vocuabulary.

    We are losing organizational capabilities. The government could not go to the Moon now, not due to technology inadequacy but due to the loss of organizational ability.

    This is what disturbs me about our departure. The departure itself was long overdue. But we could not plan it, we had no contingency plans, we still after 20 years did not understand the Taliban or Afghanistan and plan for their possible reactions. Someone must order a plan, think, work out the logistics, map out the contingencies. And this clearly was not done at all. I am guessing our geniuses in the government thought this was done, just like going forward, they will assume maintenance was done on the ship or plane, while never having ordered it, or checked into it.

  168. @Jack D
    @Jay Fink

    The women in Kabul wearing miniskirts were always a small minority. Most of the women were out in the countryside and were covered if not necessarily wearing Taliban style burkas. But if you apply 50 years of differential birthrates, they are an even smaller minority. From the 1970s until now, Afghanistan's population has quadrupled and most of the increase was among the NON miniskirt wearing crowd.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Hibernian

    What is so good about women from a traditionally conservative society wearing mini skirts and showing off their thighs and panties?

    It seems kind of disgusting to me at my advanced age.

    I was in London in the swinging sixties and the miniskirted girls certainly caught my sexual attention with their bare thighs, but can anybody really say that any good came from it in the long term?

    • Agree: JMcG
  169. @Anonymous
    @Pericles


    So just send’em to Sweden! They can probably even walk if need be, like in 2015.
     
    In 2015??

    There are still refugee camps in Southeast Europe bursting at the seams, mostly with Afghans and Pakistanis. Previously safe cities and towns near these wretched camps have turned into shitholes where locals feel uneasy walking the streets, even in broad daylight. And now the US has ordered Albania and Kosovo to accept thousands of Afghan refugees, basically saving them much of that long trip, so they can promptly join their brothers on their trek to Western Europe.

    Sweden and Germany really should just be flying them over directly. It's not like they actually plan to stop immigration from such hellholes anyway.

    Replies: @Pericles

    Sweden grew its population by 1.5% in 2015 just through migrant mania. Crazy, evil times.

  170. @Johann Ricke
    @Jack D


    There was no possible deal between the US and the Taliban. The Taliban bobbed and weaved at the negotiating table but ultimately there was no way that they were going to turn over a fellow Muslim to the infidels. It went against their every principle. Not that the US was really trying that hard to make a deal, but really there was no deal to be had with the Taliban, not then and not now. How do you make a deal with people who take their orders from Allah?
     
    I think we will get other bites at this apple. The Taliban are nothing if not megalomaniac. They sponsored the attacks on 9/11 despite knowing, from Saddam's experience during Desert Storm, that the US had the capability to inflict damage on them similar to the way in which the Soviets are estimated to have killed 1m Afghans during the Afghan-Soviet War. The human cost to Afghanistan of the American campaign is maybe 1/6 of the casualties the Soviets inflicted.

    Maybe they'll think that airplanes did not inflict enough damage to either cause the US to surrender or get Allah to intervene directly. Maybe they think nuclear detonations in a larger number of American cities will do the trick. Is it megalomania if they win?

    Replies: @Jack D, @Rob, @Adam Smith

    They sponsored the attacks on 9/11…

    Lol… No. They did no such thing.

  171. @Kratoklastes
    @George


    Far from being isolated the Taliban probably had lots of covert support from the other -stan countries and China Russia Iran.
     
    Gay cope.

    The US got beat. By its former pets (the US armed, trained and funded the mujaheddin during the 80s in order to win a pissing contest against the Soviets).

    The US was always going to get beat - unless it flat-out committed genocide, which would be a hard sell to the punters and the 'global community'.

    Everyone who tries to occupy Afghanistan, gets beat.

    That's why the fucking place is called "The Graveyard of Empires".

    More to the point: everybody knows that insurgents always win because all they have to do is keep a low-lethality presence (and they're better placed to develop networks, given that it's their home ground). IEDs FTW.

    Everybody understands 4G war nowadays - they teach the basic theory at West Point, for fuck's sake. William S Lind used to teach his stuff, and I think John Robb also had a stint lecturing.

    The Viet Cong didn't need Chinese or Soviet support (although they did have some) either: as Tet showed, they were everywhere. The US spent massive resources trying to convince its own population that its generals knew what the fuck they were doing - almost all of it a gigantic gallimaufry of lies.

    Anyhow... let's hope that the next strategic fuckup by the US military, winds up being its last.

    Go ahead - take on China or Russia. Nothing would please me more than to be alive for the end of the 'CBG Era' (the 'Battleship Era' ended in WWII).

    Replies: @Hibernian

    The Viet Cong didn’t need Chinese or Soviet support…

    That is a myth. They won; that doesn’t mean they were ten feet tall.

  172. @Jack D
    @Jay Fink

    The women in Kabul wearing miniskirts were always a small minority. Most of the women were out in the countryside and were covered if not necessarily wearing Taliban style burkas. But if you apply 50 years of differential birthrates, they are an even smaller minority. From the 1970s until now, Afghanistan's population has quadrupled and most of the increase was among the NON miniskirt wearing crowd.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Hibernian

    I was stationed at Bagram Air Field 2004-05, and the women wore full burqas in the countryside; this was not limited to Taliban areas, which were about 15% of the country at the time. When I was in Kabul one day, there were two women wearing mid calf length skirts; they were the ultra modern ones. Afghanistan, which some people wanted to transform into Switzerland, was not a good candidate even to transform into Egypt or Turkey, which, BTW, are getting less modern with each passing year, or at least they generally have been recently.

  173. @Bill Jones
    @Pericles

    I hear Canada is short of warm bodies to admit.
    The US should also start up a el cheapo version of Air America and fly all the Mexican invaders from Texas to Ottawa.

    Replies: @GomezAdddams

    Trudeau calls election Sept 20 and key item is to allow 85,000 ( 1% only) from Kabul to mixerize Ontatio. Follow that Money—-those 1% are very wealthy but speak English with an American accent.

  174. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/EdAsante77/status/1427008744047718403?s=20

    Replies: @Altai, @AnotherDad, @Gabe Ruth

    How can you say that line with a straight face in the current year? I know he’s a cuck’s cuck, but have some self respect.

  175. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Wokechoke

    You can tell Biden actually did the right thing by the way the usual MSM suspects are so outraged by our withdrawal.

    Replies: @Jtgw

    Yeah in general you can work out the correct position on any issue by taking the opposite view of the NYT.

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