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Why Bankers Can’t Stop Running
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From the Financial Times:

Why bankers can’t stop running

What is it about the world’s simplest form of exercise that so appeals to Wall Street?

When I was in business school in the early 1980s, the term “bankers” did not refer to Wall Streeters, who were known as “investment bankers.” Back then, bankers were unglamorous moderately well-compensated locals who made loans to strip mall developers and the like and, until inflation came along in the 1970s, enjoyed the 3-6-3 worklife: pay 3% interest to depositors, lend at 6% interest to borrowers, and be on the golf course by 3 PM.

The repeal of the New Deal Glass-Steagall Act in 1999 changed the terminology. So, now, “bankers” refer to Masters of the Universe types in New York and London rather than the person who runs your local Chase branch office. I point this out to keep this article from confusing my fellow 20th Century folks.

Laura Noonan in Rochester, New York JUNE 6 2019

… Every second banker I meet seems to be either training for or recovering from a marathon, or attempting a more arduous challenge. …

So what is it that binds running and finance so tightly? The easy answer is that both attract “type A” personalities. The intense preparation demanded by a marathon isn’t that different from what it takes to win a big client. Similarly, the stamina to keep going when your legs have given up is the same trait that powers investment analysts through 16-hour days.

… Running is popular with high-achieving finance people, she says, because they share “this very goal-setting committed type of mind that says, ‘I get up and I run. And if I have a meeting that’s early, I’ll get up earlier and run.’ ”

Yet grit and determination can only partly explain why bankers run — or why anyone runs. You also have to want to do it. From my vantage point writing about big global banks, I can see many reasons why people working in finance would want to run more now than they ever have.

One problem with journalism is the urge to turn every article about a long-lasting disparity into an article about a trend, whether or not the trend actually exists.

Rapid advances in everything from machine learning to voice recognition and computer modelling have brought the industry to the cusp of a transformational era. Bosses have so far mainly spoken about the destruction of roles in operational areas. In the long term, though, just about all roles in finance are potentially under threat, and so it makes all the more sense for humans to take part in activities that play to their advantage over machines.

“Some of my best clients and I run together,” says Ricardo Mora, a partner at Goldman Sachs. “We’ll incorporate a breakfast meeting, get together for a meal afterwards,” says the 22-time marathon runner. As someone who has done a few running meetings, I can see how the shared endeavour would forge deeper bonds than a drink or a meal.

Mora also runs with colleagues and is one of the organisers of an annual event for Goldman’s summer interns and other runners at the bank. “For a junior out of college looking for a job, it’s another way for them to connect,” Mora says. “One day they’re sitting at a desk working with them, the next day at 5.30am they’re running the Brooklyn Bridge with a managing director, a partner, someone from the firm, running alongside them.” Between 40 and 50 people join the run annually.

… Running also enjoys a roughly equal split between male and female participants, as shown by numerous studies including the latest annual survey from Running USA, which says that 54 per cent of runners are female.

Golf is a fine sport for coed participation, but far fewer heterosexual women than heterosexual men see the point of it. (I suspect that golf is a white collar suburbanized version of the traditional blood sports that appeal more to hunters than to gatherers.)

That makes it a far more inclusive option for client and employee bonding than traditional corporate activities such as golf — an important consideration as the finance industry comes under increasing pressure to improve its gender diversity.

Golf is a pleasant way to spend a lot of the money you are making in finance, but it’s time consuming and thus gets in the way of making even more money. Running allows you to waste the minimum amount of time on exercise so you can get back to making more money as soon as possible. Running is part of the neo-puritan imperative to be a lean mean money making machine.

As I’ve been pointing out since 2012, I would not be surprised if type of exercise done isn’t just a matter of self-selection based on individual Nature but also has a measurable Nurture effect on other aspects, such as political attitudes. For example, actors who lift weights intensively tend to be to the right of actors who run obsessively. I’ve used the comparison of two TV stars: Mark Harmon (football star to jogger and anti-gun activist) versus Gary Sinise (theater kid to lifter and support-the-troops Republican activist).

My theory could be tested by researchers for a moderate budget. As I wrote nine years ago:

The proposition that different types of exercise could drive political views could be ethically tested on college students by offering free personal trainers. Randomly assign some volunteers to the weightlifting trainer, others to the running trainer, and measure if their attitudes change along with their shapes.

As Obama’s calculatedly divisive 2012 campaign demonstrates, the future of politics may look much stranger than what we’re familiar with. The parties will likely want to research how they can mold their own voters.

Dear academics: If this experiment sounds interesting to you, please feel that you absolutely do not have to credit me for the idea. I just want to know what you’ll find out.

 
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  1. They even beat Burke at his own game. Crushed my (and Ricky’s) young Big Red Machine dreams too.

    • LOL: Kronos
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Desiderius


    they used 23% of the available polyester in Los Angeles
     
    And 18% of the available hair and moustache grooming products.
    , @njguy73
    @Desiderius

    OK, so I got Reggie Smith (L) Ron Cey (2L) Davey Lopes (4L) Rick Monday (3R) Steve Garvey (2R) and Dusty Baker (R). Who did I miss?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  2. Runners, as opposed to mere recreational joggers, like to demonstrate how much they suffer for their virtue. To see the agonising grimaces you’d think they were being pursued through the city by the hounds of Dracula. In another context they’d be flagellants. All playacting, of course, like their brethren on pushbikes, all kidding themselves on they could’ve been competing in the Olympics or Tour de France.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    @Cortes


    Runners, as opposed to mere recreational joggers, like to demonstrate how much they suffer for their virtue.
     
    My exercise guru is Juan Carlos Santana. He is a retired power lifter with bad knees, bad hips, and one bad shoulder and he refers to the dirty secret of athletic training. Generally it subtracts from longevity and it subtracts a large amount from quality of life.

    His program is loose and variable and explicitly pain free. If it hurts, stop. Do something else. His book has hundreds of different exercise variations so don't quit working out. Just quit punishing your knee or your wrist or whatever.

    https://www.amazon.com/Functional-Training-Juan-Carlos-Santana/dp/1450414826

    The Mark's Daily Apple guy was a professional triathlete and he says his life changed immensely for the better when he quit endurance training for good many years ago. The guy who ran the first marathon 25 centuries ago dropped dead when he finished.

    On the other hand Malcom Gladwell did 5:15 mile in a celebrity track meet a couple months ago. I have always found Gladwell's popular writing tedious as a User's License Agreement to read but when I saw that I was impressed. They interviewed him after and asked "what are you going to do now?"

    And he said "I am going to go home and sleep."

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @JMcG, @Clyde, @Anonymous

    , @LondonBob
    @Cortes

    Running is desperately dull, cycling is just about fine.

    https://youtu.be/O6SEXp3-lo8

    I do fifteen minutes on a rowing machine, any more and I just become bored. Otherwise I play at least two hours of football a week, team sports are much more entertaining.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Ragno
    @Cortes


    Runners, as opposed to mere recreational joggers, like to demonstrate how much they suffer for their virtue.
     
    There's a payoff for all that suffering, though - taking it alllllll out on Whitey. They didn't realize it would come down to that 30+ years ago, when the running fad became a full-on craze, of course (then again, back then Biden was making tough-on-crime faces and laughing louder than anyone in Congress at Strom Thurmond's jokes; whoever said politics is the art of the possible didn't know the half of it).

    Now, however, there can be no doubt, particularly as they're getting all their cues directly from the White House. The surface idea - completely dismantle America so thoroughly and destructively that it can never be put back together - is principally the bone they're throwing the blacks and the rich-kid Bolshie kids who'll be providing the SA/Red Terror mob enforcement of said dismantling. As for the bankers and industrialists and triply-parenthesized media barons truly engineering the calamity dead ahead of us , it's the underlying purpose - here is our last best chance to wet our beaks until we can't swallow another drop - providing all the incentive to erase White America - forever.
  3. These modern bankers would be smart to not stop running … to the Caymans, Paraguay, Lichtenstein, wherever. Eventually some Americans will catch up to them here.

    There’s no rest for the Running Man:

    What do you want from me?
    What do you need from me?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Peter White's Spanish guitar starts at 02:18.

    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Neil Tennant of the Pet Shop Boys seems to have ripped off his singing style from Al Stewart.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  4. People run for the same reason people put pineapple on pizza.

    People are morons.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @theMann


    People run for the same reason people put pineapple on pizza.
    People are morons.
     
    All the comic book based movies that are out these days. This is proof that people are morons. Release the Kraken on them.

    Replies: @theMann

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @theMann

    Yeah. I never understood the pineapple thing either.

    Oh well.

  5. @Achmed E. Newman
    These modern bankers would be smart to not stop running ... to the Caymans, Paraguay, Lichtenstein, wherever. Eventually some Americans will catch up to them here.

    There's no rest for the Running Man:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FM3VIyxqug

    What do you want from me?
    What do you need from me?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Hapalong Cassidy

    Peter White’s Spanish guitar starts at 02:18.

  6. Bankster. The word is Bankster, a merging of “Banker” and “Gangster”.

    Because “Blood-Sucking, Vampire Squid” is too long, and maybe too 2008.

    • Agree: Alden
  7. Anon[145] • Disclaimer says:

    No, it’s just that running is an OCD sport. Even weightlifting is less monotonous. Normal people get bored running – but not investment bankers, who select for OCD and continually reinforce it. Eve Smith at Naked Capitalism is crazy but not quite crazy enough for investment banking, so she has a lot of horror stories. People working through life-threatening illnesses and crap like that. (Eve’s a weightlifter.) Investment banking is profoundly sick and culty. All these pukes will have artificial knees and hips before they retire – even assuming they can conquer their egoistic bean-counting obsession and stop working.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Anon

    I agree about the damage done to bones ligaments and muscles by running. I was hit by a car driven by someone who looked straight from the jungles of Central America. A grown adult man in his thirties but so short he could barely be seen over the steering wheel. I’m more or less a bionic woman from waist to knees.

    My orthopedic surgeon is a sports ortho guy. It’s titled a Sports Clinic. You should see us patients. Me and one other old person and the rest all young men from about 15 to 35. A very few football injuries; the rest are all running injuries. And orthopedic problems only get worse with age. There’s a few professional athletes. But mostly young adult joggers.

    I took anatomy in college. Because most anatomy students are nursing or pre med, there’s a lot of medical information in anatomy. Ballet and running are really very bad for bones ligaments tendons and muscles. Especially on hard surfaces. It’s another triumph of propaganda by the expensive athletic show companies.

    When jogging first became popular, orthopedic surgeons advised against it. Then they realized how much money could be made from treating teen and young adult jogging injuries. Why wait till the patients are 60 when jogging injures them at 20. And 50 years of billing.

  8. Running marathons destroys your knees and other joints. Perhaps run one or two marathons to know you can do it. But a steady 5 mile run per day is better with one day a no-run day. Do weights that day. Try to get those 5 miles run faster and faster. Run as fast as you can for 100 yards a few times within your daily five miles.

    I once saw a super model who was asked how she stayed in shape. Her exact quote was “squats, squats and more squats”. If you do this don’t mess up your knees by going all the way down. And not even close to that. This is strictly for clowns and those who subconsciously want to have injuries to complain about. Start your squat training by dipping down a little distance but with many squats. You know who have the largest, most well developed thighs? Tour De France cyclists.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    @Clyde

    Ample research shows that full-depth squats are not harder on the knees than partial ones.

    https://barbend.com/deep-squats-bad-for-knees/

    Replies: @Clyde

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Clyde

    Women cyclists have some of the best rear ends you're gonna see... hey, that's why I lost that race.

    , @jon
    @Clyde


    If you do this don’t mess up your knees by going all the way down.
     
    Just get one of these, or find a gym that has one:
    https://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/exerciseImages/sequences/921/Male/l/921_2.jpg

    Easier on the back than deadlifts, easier on the knees than squats, good form comes naturally, and the amount of weight you can handle is great for the ego.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    , @Michael S
    @Clyde


    If you do [squats] don’t mess up your knees by going all the way down.
     
    That's retarded. Depth doesn't mess up your knees, poor form does. You can go ass to grass and as long as you use your glutes to push out of the hole, and don't bend your knees way out in front of you, you'll be fine. (The idea that your knees have to be perfectly parallel with your feet is also a myth, but at least has a grain of truth to it.)

    Using good squat form whenever you need to bend down - no matter how far - is actually protective. I've tweaked a knee far more times just bending down casually to pick up something I dropped than I ever have squatting.

    Quarter squats and dime squats are way harder on the knees because all that torque has no place else to go.

    Replies: @Clyde

  9. • Thanks: Cortes, ic1000
  10. As a person who spent quite a few years in the finance/brokerage business, Steve’s distinction about the two categories of “bankers” is spot on.

    Today’s top business school grad wants to go into either hedge funds, venture capital, or consulting. Consulting has become more “humane” (working associates to the bone was common a decade or so ago, now “work/life balance” is the mantra, so they can get a lot females in the door). Hedge fund and VC work promise untold riches for those who can cut it.

    Investment banking has lost a lot of its cache. Go to work fresh out of B-school for Goldman, or JP Morgan, or Barclays, and you might get walking papers in the next downturn.

    Institutional trading, in the past another entre into a place like Goldman, is no longer an option for most B-School grads, unless you also come equipped with a PhD in applied math or physics.

    The standing joke in the finance business goes like this: what was the most important date in the last 30 years in finance?

    Some answer the repeal of Glass Steagall, or high speed fiber optic cables, or some such.

    No, the answer is–when the Congress declined to fund the next gen Large Hadron Collider in Texas and it went to Cern. It was going to be a full employment opportunity for an entire generation of American physicists. Instead, they all went to Wall Street, and that’s how we got algorithmic trading, which drives almost all of the daily market moves today.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia

    Typically, you need to do a couple of years in i-banking before you move to hedge funds, VC, or PE.

    Consulting has more modest pay, but the work-life balance is good.

    Watch this funny 4-minute video to understand banking vs consultant.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROlDmux7Tk4

    Replies: @Desiderius

    , @Desiderius
    @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia


    No, the answer is–when the Congress declined to fund the next gen Large Hadron Collider in Texas and it went to Cern. It was going to be a full employment opportunity for an entire generation of American physicists. Instead, they all went to Wall Street, and that’s how we got algorithmic trading, which drives almost all of the daily market moves today.
     
    That's an unconventional justification for sending Whitey to Mars - to keep him from futzing up the economy/society.
  11. I’ve run a good number of marathons including Boston. (Qualified straight-up, as opposed to hitting up friends for a “charity”, thank you very much.). Did triathlons too.

    Runners are great people. If some new person joins the running group, first thing the group will do is figure out how to make sure the new person doesn’t run alone. If necessary, one of the faster runners will say volunteer to take a slow day to run with them.

    Swimmers are in between. The fast ones don’t want you in their lane, but will give quite useful technical tips. (You need to raise your elbow more.)

    Bikers are assholes.

    I have no idea about weightlifters.

    And no idea how this translates into political beliefs.

  12. be on the golf course by 3 PM.

    So that’s why they used to close at 2 PM.

    I read somewhere that running marathons actually damages the heart muscle. Not what those hard-hearted Masters need.

  13. “I would not be surprised if type of exercise done isn’t just a matter of self-selection based on individual Nature but also has a measurable Nurture effect on other aspects, such as political attitudes. For example, actors who lift weights intensively tend to be to the right of actors who run obsessively.”

    Question: For someone such as Donald Trump, who isn’t known for exercising at all during his life* (or perhaps should say that he isn’t particularly known for doing much exercise during his life), where would someone like that fall on the political spectrum? A sedentary person, no exercising at all. Is that a true political moderate?

    *Technically speaking, golfing per se isn’t considered to be exercising, especially when compared to running/jogging, lifting weights. One doesn’t have to be in any kind of reasonable shape to golf (e.g. Bill Clinton has golfed for years and hasn’t been an exemplar of physical fitness).

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    One doesn’t have to be in any kind of reasonable shape to golf (e.g. Bill Clinton has golfed for years and hasn’t been an exemplar of physical fitness).
     
    True, but what about Major League pitchers?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFvpt0DpZaI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9_kZCoiDCs

    I wrote this, what, 2 days back?: I sure miss that country. I never cared much about NYC, but they were having some real fun there.
    , @Desiderius
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Cernovich has linked to some studies lately about the importance of the sort of walking one does in a round of golf. Of course the ubiquity of carts now over caddies has cut way down on the number of people getting even that.

    I’ve been doing a lot of two-mile hikes in the woods with my 3-year-olds and there is something to it. Definitely beats the couple months last winter when we were stuck indoors. Woods are like an oxygen tent.

    Replies: @anon

  14. The Financial Times is off the mark here. Cycling is now the in sport of the executive class. Part of its appeal is conspicuous consumption. A top brand carbon fiber bike can easily cost $5,000.

    • Agree: Kronos, LondonBob
    • Replies: @JMcG
    @jcd1974

    Has doing the Seven Summits lost its cachet? Vintage automobile racing?

  15. What I wonder is to what extent were these type A, hyper-competitive, utterly unscrupulous types involved in fundamentally useful endeavors back in the day, versus now?

    Andrew Carnegie was definitely an asshole — but he expressed it by doing a lot to build railways and expand America’s steel industry. Ford was practically insane — and he virtually invented the modern assembly line.

    We had a civilization that put these types to good use. Does modern ‘investment banking’ actually help make a better world? How about vulture capitalism?

    All civilizations have energetic, intelligent, aggressive over-acheivers. It’s a matter of how useful to the rest of us the outlets they find are. Are today’s Fords actually bringing us affordable cars and giving us factory jobs at good wages?

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Colin Wright

    "Does modern ‘investment banking’ actually help make a better world?"

    Uh, no.

    "How about vulture capitalism?"

    For the US, nope, not one bit. For the outsourcing of jobs to other nations, then yes, it definitely helps other nations economically benefit at US's expense. This is one reason why China's economy is poised to pass the US economy, and the 21st Century will belong to China and not the US.

    "Are today’s Fords actually bringing us affordable cars and giving us factory jobs at good wages?"

    What factories? Oh, you mean in the US? Once again, the answer is no, since many millions of these jobs have been outsourced to other nations. Couple that with Right to Work laws, plus the decline of private sector unions' bargaining power. A few more reasons why US middle class wages have stagnated/declined since the mid. 1970's.

    , @anon
    @Colin Wright

    Andrew Carnegie was definitely an asshole — but he expressed it by doing a lot to build railways and expand America’s steel industry.

    Then he pretty much gave it all away.

    Partly by building libraries. 3,500 of them.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Carnegie_library

  16. Racquetball was a big sport among financial and professional types in the 1970’s and 1980’s but then went into a steep decline. From what I’ve heard, its nature appealed to hard-charging Alpha Males, yet somewhat paradoxically, in sharp contrast to tennis, two opponents of relatively different skill levels could still have an enjoyable game. It also was quite fast to learn. Compared to golf, racquetball took much less time to play, as an indoor game wasn’t subject to weather and darkness considerations, and offered far better exercise value.

    Why racquetball declined so quickly and so severely is a bit of a mystery. What may be the most likely explanation is sheer inefficiency: racquetball courts take up a large amount of indoor space (20′ x 40′ x 20′) that isn’t suitable for anything else. Interestingly, the gym where I go is a former racquetball center that closed sometime in the 1990’s. On a typical evening it holds probably 10x the number of people who could have been playing racquetball back when it was a racquetball center.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @prosa123

    Great observations about racquetball. You're right that it's a good game for mismatched opponents to play, unlike other raquet sports such as tennis and squash, which are pretty awful if the two players aren't reasonably close to each other in skill/ability.

    It's a pity that racquetball courts and squash courts aren't the same size, and that the two sports had to compete for space, essentially.

    Squash has a better pedigree as a sport, is more global, and is more challenging, so I suppose in Fussellian terms that makes it classier, and perhaps that's why it's still going while it seems racquetball has faded away. But I've played both a bit, and raquetball is much more fun for the novice. If you're not good at squash, you spend most of your time on court just picking up the ball.

    Replies: @photondancer

    , @Ralph L
    @prosa123

    My college roommate broke his girlfriend's tooth playing racquetball. She married him anyway.

    , @The Wild Geese Howard
    @prosa123


    Racquetball was a big sport among financial and professional types in the 1970’s and 1980’s but then went into a steep decline. From what I’ve heard, its nature appealed to hard-charging Alpha Males, yet somewhat paradoxically, in sharp contrast to tennis, two opponents of relatively different skill levels could still have an enjoyable game.
     
    Obligatory Wall Street (1987) clip:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgtW6-XWv80

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @PiltdownMan

  17. Running is for con men and soy boys. The real thinkers weight lift. An hour of weightlifting is twice as productive as an hour of running (it’s really just jogging.)

  18. Why doesn’t the NY Times care about Hunter Biden at the Chateau Marmont? OK, scratch that. Why doesn’t Rolling Stone care about it? The Chateau Marmont is the former place of residence of many a rocker.

    https://nypost.com/2021/06/22/did-joe-inadvertently-pay-for-hunter-bidens-wild-night-at-chateau-marmont/

  19. @Colin Wright
    What I wonder is to what extent were these type A, hyper-competitive, utterly unscrupulous types involved in fundamentally useful endeavors back in the day, versus now?

    Andrew Carnegie was definitely an asshole -- but he expressed it by doing a lot to build railways and expand America's steel industry. Ford was practically insane -- and he virtually invented the modern assembly line.

    We had a civilization that put these types to good use. Does modern 'investment banking' actually help make a better world? How about vulture capitalism?

    All civilizations have energetic, intelligent, aggressive over-acheivers. It's a matter of how useful to the rest of us the outlets they find are. Are today's Fords actually bringing us affordable cars and giving us factory jobs at good wages?

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @anon

    “Does modern ‘investment banking’ actually help make a better world?”

    Uh, no.

    “How about vulture capitalism?”

    For the US, nope, not one bit. For the outsourcing of jobs to other nations, then yes, it definitely helps other nations economically benefit at US’s expense. This is one reason why China’s economy is poised to pass the US economy, and the 21st Century will belong to China and not the US.

    “Are today’s Fords actually bringing us affordable cars and giving us factory jobs at good wages?”

    What factories? Oh, you mean in the US? Once again, the answer is no, since many millions of these jobs have been outsourced to other nations. Couple that with Right to Work laws, plus the decline of private sector unions’ bargaining power. A few more reasons why US middle class wages have stagnated/declined since the mid. 1970’s.

  20. One note on the weight lifting v. running thing is this:

    -With weightlifting*, it takes a moderately long time to max out on your gains, but once you do you can keep your gains longer by doing only moderate working out. i.e. you can take a week or two off and still maintain your levels.

    -With running (moderate or long distance), it actually takes a shorter period of time to max out, but you can lose that quickly, so you need to do it on a three-to-five day a week schedule. i.e. If you take a week off and try for the week before’s comfortable pace you will be huffing hard by the end.

    This means a runner needs a near-religious devotion to his sport if he is to be good consistently.You can run a marathon within a year of being a couch potato, but you need to strictly follow the guidelines in the various marathon training regimes running magazines put out. . I’ve known people into running who, before a vacation or business trip, would literally map out their runs and times to run in their arrival places before doing anything else. Its an activity that rewards obsessiveness.

    Meanwhile, a weightlifter can go hard for a few years, max out, and then take time to do other hobbies while still being at 80-90% capacity of his body’s strength for the remainder of their lives. For example, weight training guru MArk Rippetoe, who is in his 60’s, has talked about how he barely does a quarter of the work routines he advises for beginners, because he maxed out years ago and is only doing maintenance now. One reason super-athletes like Tiger Woods, Barry Bonds, and Mark McGwire started on steroids is that, by being athletes, they were used to pushing their bodies to the limit physically, and so when they maxed out, as super-athletes, got extremely frustrated with hitting that ceiling and so took ‘roids to push past it.

    Human beings are built to adapt quickly to running/stamina training, as a result of our hunter abilities only being used part of the year during season.

    *Note when I say weightlifting, I mean strength training (lifting to gain strength) and not body building; body building takes constant work to maintain.

  21. Who in the hell wants an ‘investment advisor’ who spends his time on a Peletron or riding an expensive bike? The best investment I ever made ( percentage wise) was buying some Apple when I learned London hoodlums were stealing iPods off of joggers because they could recognize the distinctive earplugs they wore.

    Who knew that meant Apple had won?

    OTOH I bought T-Mobile because, about the same time, they were offering the “Dangerfield” flip internet cellphone. The very phone I used to buy my Apple shares remotely from my company vehicle from TD AmeriTrade during my lunch break. It was a lot ‘cooler’ than than the iPod but then Paris Hilton’s T-Mobile phone got hacked and Blackberry became the phone to own until Apple came out with the iPhone and Blackberry went extinct.

    Crunching numbers is a lagging indicator. Knowing the future is what counts and doing what everyone else is doing today is not the future. Asking a 16 year old kid what car he would buy if he could buy any car he wanted to today is a better guide to what car you should buy and put in storage so you could sell it to him when he is 50 years old is a better guide to investment success than listening a to banker hawking what he is trying to sell today.

  22. When I worked in investment banking at a NYC firm, I was asked by my then GF’s family if I knew there neighbour, so-and-so, and remarkably I did. He had told them he was an investment banker, but in a charitable moment I didn’t blow his cover by telling them he was part of the HR coverage for the business area in which I was working.

    • LOL: Redneck farmer
  23. FYI – Your “Hormonal Politics” link is an article about how much Obama hated his White grandma.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @jon

    Keep reading.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @jon

  24. @jon
    FYI - Your "Hormonal Politics" link is an article about how much Obama hated his White grandma.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Keep reading.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Steve Sailer

    One of the peculiarities of the Takimag site is that the "next page" link is so microscopic that the casual reader will not notice it and will conclude that the article just ended.

    , @jon
    @Steve Sailer

    Oh, c'mon man:
    https://i.imgflip.com/5e7rfv.jpg

  25. Anonymous[415] • Disclaimer says:

    From what I see, a lot of the Wall Street sales and “banker” types are Division I or Ivy+ athletes in Wrestling, soccer, Lacrosse or even baseball. Smart enough in the big picture to lead a team into negotiations and Type-A enough to intimidate their fellow worker and impress a client with their stories of the locker room or eating club.

    Behind the scenes are Algo Math MIT types. Unathletic, unsocial and maybe autistic they come up with the trading techniques and arbitrage startegies.

    Places like Goldman know exactly how to make these two groups mesh.

  26. One problem with journalism is the urge to turn every article about a long-lasting disparity into an article about a trend, whether or not the trend actually exists.

    It’s a reason why so much upmarket commentary tends to be fatuous.

  27. @Colin Wright
    What I wonder is to what extent were these type A, hyper-competitive, utterly unscrupulous types involved in fundamentally useful endeavors back in the day, versus now?

    Andrew Carnegie was definitely an asshole -- but he expressed it by doing a lot to build railways and expand America's steel industry. Ford was practically insane -- and he virtually invented the modern assembly line.

    We had a civilization that put these types to good use. Does modern 'investment banking' actually help make a better world? How about vulture capitalism?

    All civilizations have energetic, intelligent, aggressive over-acheivers. It's a matter of how useful to the rest of us the outlets they find are. Are today's Fords actually bringing us affordable cars and giving us factory jobs at good wages?

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @anon

    Andrew Carnegie was definitely an asshole — but he expressed it by doing a lot to build railways and expand America’s steel industry.

    Then he pretty much gave it all away.

    Partly by building libraries. 3,500 of them.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Carnegie_library

  28. @theMann
    People run for the same reason people put pineapple on pizza.

    People are morons.

    Replies: @Clyde, @JohnnyWalker123

    People run for the same reason people put pineapple on pizza.
    People are morons.

    All the comic book based movies that are out these days. This is proof that people are morons. Release the Kraken on them.

    • Replies: @theMann
    @Clyde

    I resolutely refuse to see any of them, but a one man boycott isn't hurting Hollywood that much. CoronaFraud has though, so silver lining, I guess.

    Replies: @Clyde

  29. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/Super70sSports/status/1407344095454973964?s=20

    They even beat Burke at his own game. Crushed my (and Ricky’s) young Big Red Machine dreams too.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @njguy73

    they used 23% of the available polyester in Los Angeles

    And 18% of the available hair and moustache grooming products.

  30. What is it about the world’s simplest form of exercise that so appeals to Wall Street?

    They’re just getting in their practice for when they really need it

  31. I think it is more genetics. Talk about politics never changes anyone’s mind, no matter how many points you think you scored.

    The other possibility is that people form their moral/political framework at an early age and the rest of their cognitive activity for 70 plus years is confirmation bias. Sort of the Jesuit give me a child at 12 and I will have them for life.

    I ‘m a freedom loving small government sort of person. Once when I tried to find a personal injury lawyer for my nephew “back home” I was surprised to discover “back home” was “farm Republications” to the lawyer. “They” would never award money to a stupid kid injured in a skateboard accident. Looks like I was more like my childhood family and neighbors, when I thought I had educated myself and formed my own opinions.

  32. @Clyde
    Running marathons destroys your knees and other joints. Perhaps run one or two marathons to know you can do it. But a steady 5 mile run per day is better with one day a no-run day. Do weights that day. Try to get those 5 miles run faster and faster. Run as fast as you can for 100 yards a few times within your daily five miles.

    I once saw a super model who was asked how she stayed in shape. Her exact quote was "squats, squats and more squats". If you do this don't mess up your knees by going all the way down. And not even close to that. This is strictly for clowns and those who subconsciously want to have injuries to complain about. Start your squat training by dipping down a little distance but with many squats. You know who have the largest, most well developed thighs? Tour De France cyclists.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Achmed E. Newman, @jon, @Michael S

    Ample research shows that full-depth squats are not harder on the knees than partial ones.

    https://barbend.com/deep-squats-bad-for-knees/

    • Agree: Coemgen
    • Replies: @Clyde
    @prosa123


    Ample research shows that full-depth squats are not harder on the knees than partial ones.
    https://barbend.com/deep-squats-bad-for-knees/
     
    This range of motion is unnatural. Far better to go down no further than thighs parallel to the floor. Then if you like do more squats and/or add weights. I feel sorry for the guys I see going full depth down then coming back up with 300+ lbs of weights. Here's your jamokes doing it!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOL-AEZwny0

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  33. Do they still have investment bankers?

    There is so much private investment capital I cannot believe Goldman or whatever was instrumental in building any of the companies emerging today. Is there a difference between venture capital (private pools of major money looking for a business to invest in – like shark tank) and investment banking (a few wall street firms and big banks who put money into risky startup equity)?

    Hard to believe NY bankers can compete with Northern California private equity. Don’t the NY bankers have to spend a lot of time . . . in NY? Which might as well be Siberia.

    I will say when it is time to go public the NYC lawyers (me me me) and the investment banks swoop in for their rather large slice, but that may not be forever.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @scrivener3

    Even in the heydey of my time in IB, I made it clear I was in PE.

  34. @Steve Sailer
    @jon

    Keep reading.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @jon

    One of the peculiarities of the Takimag site is that the “next page” link is so microscopic that the casual reader will not notice it and will conclude that the article just ended.

    • Agree: jon
  35. @Achmed E. Newman
    These modern bankers would be smart to not stop running ... to the Caymans, Paraguay, Lichtenstein, wherever. Eventually some Americans will catch up to them here.

    There's no rest for the Running Man:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FM3VIyxqug

    What do you want from me?
    What do you need from me?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Hapalong Cassidy

    Neil Tennant of the Pet Shop Boys seems to have ripped off his singing style from Al Stewart.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Hapalong Cassidy


    Neil Tennant of the Pet Shop Boys seems to have ripped off his singing style from Al Stewart.
     
    Is he an œnophile like Stewart, who called his Napa Valley neighbors a "vast red-wine conspiracy"?
  36. @Clyde
    Running marathons destroys your knees and other joints. Perhaps run one or two marathons to know you can do it. But a steady 5 mile run per day is better with one day a no-run day. Do weights that day. Try to get those 5 miles run faster and faster. Run as fast as you can for 100 yards a few times within your daily five miles.

    I once saw a super model who was asked how she stayed in shape. Her exact quote was "squats, squats and more squats". If you do this don't mess up your knees by going all the way down. And not even close to that. This is strictly for clowns and those who subconsciously want to have injuries to complain about. Start your squat training by dipping down a little distance but with many squats. You know who have the largest, most well developed thighs? Tour De France cyclists.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Achmed E. Newman, @jon, @Michael S

    Women cyclists have some of the best rear ends you’re gonna see… hey, that’s why I lost that race.

  37. @jcd1974
    The Financial Times is off the mark here. Cycling is now the in sport of the executive class. Part of its appeal is conspicuous consumption. A top brand carbon fiber bike can easily cost $5,000.

    Replies: @JMcG

    Has doing the Seven Summits lost its cachet? Vintage automobile racing?

  38. Hardcore runners look terrible as they age. Gaunt and weak And they usually have all kinds of injuries. I believe long distance runners have shorter lifespans as well. If you’re going to run, light jogging a few times a week (2-3 miles) at a moderate pace combined with weightlifting is much better.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Frank McGar

    I have an uncle who was a good college athlete (football lineman, but back when they weighed 220 instead of 320), and who then took up hard-core running as an adult. He powered onward through numerous leg problems, but then developed debilitating back trouble, had less-than-successful surgeries, and ended up walking with a cane in his late 50s/60s.

    I'm about 20 years younger than him, so I was around 40 when he really started breaking down. I'd been running quite a bit myself, but seeing what it did to him convinced me to drop it and start doing more reasonable forms of exercise.

    Replies: @Frank McGar

  39. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "I would not be surprised if type of exercise done isn’t just a matter of self-selection based on individual Nature but also has a measurable Nurture effect on other aspects, such as political attitudes. For example, actors who lift weights intensively tend to be to the right of actors who run obsessively."

    Question: For someone such as Donald Trump, who isn't known for exercising at all during his life* (or perhaps should say that he isn't particularly known for doing much exercise during his life), where would someone like that fall on the political spectrum? A sedentary person, no exercising at all. Is that a true political moderate?


    *Technically speaking, golfing per se isn't considered to be exercising, especially when compared to running/jogging, lifting weights. One doesn't have to be in any kind of reasonable shape to golf (e.g. Bill Clinton has golfed for years and hasn't been an exemplar of physical fitness).

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Desiderius

    One doesn’t have to be in any kind of reasonable shape to golf (e.g. Bill Clinton has golfed for years and hasn’t been an exemplar of physical fitness).

    True, but what about Major League pitchers?

    I wrote this, what, 2 days back?: I sure miss that country. I never cared much about NYC, but they were having some real fun there.

  40. I can confirm that long-distance sports are popular on Wall Street. Jogging, cycling, rowing.

    Even if you don’t participate in these sports regularly, you’ll often be called on to participate for the purposes of charity.

    • Replies: @anon
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Even if you don’t participate in these sports regularly, you’ll often be called on to participate for the purposes of charity.

    Exactly.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJOBR_HVh-Y

    , @Clyde
    @JohnnyWalker123


    I can confirm that long-distance sports are popular on Wall Street. Jogging, cycling, rowing.
     
    Aerobic sports to oxygenate their brains. Should clear their minds to make better trades. I'll bet some traders, Wall Street and elsewhere, have bottles of oxygen on the premises. To inhale pure oxygen when they feel it is needed. Sports teams do, to revive tuckered out players. What would really do them (Wall Street etc.) right would be a few hyperbaric chambers on premises. I have seen what hyperbaric can do.
  41. https://www.unz.com/article/sailer-and-kirkpatrick-on-bonfire-of-the-vanities-the-quintessential-new-york-novel-and-the-new-crusade-for-the-west/

  42. @Steve Sailer
    @jon

    Keep reading.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @jon

    Oh, c’mon man:

  43. It Keeps You Runnin’ · The Doobie Brothers

    [MORE]

    It Keeps You Runnin’ · Carly Simon

  44. @Cortes
    Runners, as opposed to mere recreational joggers, like to demonstrate how much they suffer for their virtue. To see the agonising grimaces you’d think they were being pursued through the city by the hounds of Dracula. In another context they’d be flagellants. All playacting, of course, like their brethren on pushbikes, all kidding themselves on they could’ve been competing in the Olympics or Tour de France.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @LondonBob, @Ragno

    Runners, as opposed to mere recreational joggers, like to demonstrate how much they suffer for their virtue.

    My exercise guru is Juan Carlos Santana. He is a retired power lifter with bad knees, bad hips, and one bad shoulder and he refers to the dirty secret of athletic training. Generally it subtracts from longevity and it subtracts a large amount from quality of life.

    His program is loose and variable and explicitly pain free. If it hurts, stop. Do something else. His book has hundreds of different exercise variations so don’t quit working out. Just quit punishing your knee or your wrist or whatever.

    The Mark’s Daily Apple guy was a professional triathlete and he says his life changed immensely for the better when he quit endurance training for good many years ago. The guy who ran the first marathon 25 centuries ago dropped dead when he finished.

    On the other hand Malcom Gladwell did 5:15 mile in a celebrity track meet a couple months ago. I have always found Gladwell’s popular writing tedious as a User’s License Agreement to read but when I saw that I was impressed. They interviewed him after and asked “what are you going to do now?”

    And he said “I am going to go home and sleep.”

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Morton's toes

    The guy who completed the 1st Marathon also fought in the battle of Marathon before he made his run.

    Replies: @Ralph L

    , @JMcG
    @Morton's toes

    I’ve been reading Gladwell’s latest, Bomber Mafia, after having it forced on me by a friend with whom I share an interest in military aviation. So far, it’s the worst book I’ve ever read on the subject. It’s poorly organized, sloppily written, and betrays a total lack of understanding of the dynamics of flight.

    He actually states that a strong enough headwind can cause an airplane to fall from the sky. To think that there are people who hang on his every word is depressing. On the other hand, a 5:15 mile at his age is pretty darn good.

    Replies: @anon, @Anonymous

    , @Clyde
    @Morton's toes


    My exercise guru is Juan Carlos Santana. He is a retired power lifter with bad knees, bad hips, and one bad shoulder and he refers to the dirty secret of athletic training. Generally it subtracts from longevity and it subtracts a large amount from quality of life.

    His program is loose and variable and explicitly pain free. If it hurts, stop. Do something else. His book has hundreds of different exercise variations so don’t quit working out. Just quit punishing your knee or your wrist or whatever.
     
    Thanks for posting! I will be taking a look at what your guru has to say. "No pain, no gain" can be true sometimes, but has left many injured and seeing Docs for OPs. Arthroscopic surgery. Before any surgery (if you want to avoid it) see your local prolotherapist to get prolo injections into the joint and/or platelet rich plasma injections. There is a very smart world out there of smart Docs in this line of orthopedics. I have gotten prolo into a knee but not the elite version which is platelet rich plasma. This is cutting edge medicine, not for plebs and the surgery first crowd.

    A Platelet Rich Plasma Knee Doctor will take a small sample of the patient’s blood and then spin it down to obtain the growth factors and platelets. Then, the mixture will be injected into the problem area, and when the platelets are present, stem cells will be stimulated to come to the area and rebuild the tissues.
    PRP For Knees – Platelet Rich Plasma Injections for Knees
    www.prporthopedicdoctors.com/prp-for-the-knees/
     
    , @Anonymous
    @Morton's toes

    Nobody is surprised when guys who do hard manual labor as young men end up with a bunch of joint and back problems in middle age. Somehow everybody is surprised that the same happens to guys who do hard physical exercise.

  45. anon[235] • Disclaimer says:

    There are 2 things going on.

    1. A lot of guys weightlift because they want to “achieve” something great in their lives. Finance guys are already achieving great things by virtue of their jobs. Lower class people on the other hand don’t really have any sense achievement from their work, so they get it from lifting weights. It’s kind of sad, but it’s true. I see a lot of guys in their 30s spending so much time lifting weights, and I think it’s damn pointless.

    2. Weightlifting is more of a lifestyle than running. Finance guys are too busy with their work to do all the of stuff you need to do to lift weights (eat a lot of food, take supplements, etc)

  46. jon says:
    @Clyde
    Running marathons destroys your knees and other joints. Perhaps run one or two marathons to know you can do it. But a steady 5 mile run per day is better with one day a no-run day. Do weights that day. Try to get those 5 miles run faster and faster. Run as fast as you can for 100 yards a few times within your daily five miles.

    I once saw a super model who was asked how she stayed in shape. Her exact quote was "squats, squats and more squats". If you do this don't mess up your knees by going all the way down. And not even close to that. This is strictly for clowns and those who subconsciously want to have injuries to complain about. Start your squat training by dipping down a little distance but with many squats. You know who have the largest, most well developed thighs? Tour De France cyclists.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Achmed E. Newman, @jon, @Michael S

    If you do this don’t mess up your knees by going all the way down.

    Just get one of these, or find a gym that has one:

    Easier on the back than deadlifts, easier on the knees than squats, good form comes naturally, and the amount of weight you can handle is great for the ego.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @jon

    That's called a trap bar.

    Replies: @Sean

  47. @prosa123
    Racquetball was a big sport among financial and professional types in the 1970's and 1980's but then went into a steep decline. From what I've heard, its nature appealed to hard-charging Alpha Males, yet somewhat paradoxically, in sharp contrast to tennis, two opponents of relatively different skill levels could still have an enjoyable game. It also was quite fast to learn. Compared to golf, racquetball took much less time to play, as an indoor game wasn't subject to weather and darkness considerations, and offered far better exercise value.

    Why racquetball declined so quickly and so severely is a bit of a mystery. What may be the most likely explanation is sheer inefficiency: racquetball courts take up a large amount of indoor space (20' x 40' x 20') that isn't suitable for anything else. Interestingly, the gym where I go is a former racquetball center that closed sometime in the 1990's. On a typical evening it holds probably 10x the number of people who could have been playing racquetball back when it was a racquetball center.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist, @Ralph L, @The Wild Geese Howard

    Great observations about racquetball. You’re right that it’s a good game for mismatched opponents to play, unlike other raquet sports such as tennis and squash, which are pretty awful if the two players aren’t reasonably close to each other in skill/ability.

    It’s a pity that racquetball courts and squash courts aren’t the same size, and that the two sports had to compete for space, essentially.

    Squash has a better pedigree as a sport, is more global, and is more challenging, so I suppose in Fussellian terms that makes it classier, and perhaps that’s why it’s still going while it seems racquetball has faded away. But I’ve played both a bit, and raquetball is much more fun for the novice. If you’re not good at squash, you spend most of your time on court just picking up the ball.

    • Agree: Prosa123, Desiderius
    • Replies: @photondancer
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    Racquetball and squash are played on the same courts in Oz.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

  48. Until inflation in the 1970s…Because of the enormous expense of the Vietnam War Pres. Nixon had to close the gold window. With no restraint from gold inventory considerations the Fed could and did ramp up inflation continuing to the current sorry state of the dollar. Those clever and tricky Vietnamese not only whipped our ass on the battlefield where they did after all have home field advantage but they came onto our turf and whipped us again in the realm of finance where we American capitalists supposedly had an insuperable advantage over any communist. Whipped twice by those wily Vietnamese communists who made the bankers run.

  49. Golf is a fine sport for coed participation

    No it is not. Aside from making slow play even worse, a woman will throw a fit if you remind her not to step in your line. Jeez.

  50. @Clyde
    Running marathons destroys your knees and other joints. Perhaps run one or two marathons to know you can do it. But a steady 5 mile run per day is better with one day a no-run day. Do weights that day. Try to get those 5 miles run faster and faster. Run as fast as you can for 100 yards a few times within your daily five miles.

    I once saw a super model who was asked how she stayed in shape. Her exact quote was "squats, squats and more squats". If you do this don't mess up your knees by going all the way down. And not even close to that. This is strictly for clowns and those who subconsciously want to have injuries to complain about. Start your squat training by dipping down a little distance but with many squats. You know who have the largest, most well developed thighs? Tour De France cyclists.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Achmed E. Newman, @jon, @Michael S

    If you do [squats] don’t mess up your knees by going all the way down.

    That’s retarded. Depth doesn’t mess up your knees, poor form does. You can go ass to grass and as long as you use your glutes to push out of the hole, and don’t bend your knees way out in front of you, you’ll be fine. (The idea that your knees have to be perfectly parallel with your feet is also a myth, but at least has a grain of truth to it.)

    Using good squat form whenever you need to bend down – no matter how far – is actually protective. I’ve tweaked a knee far more times just bending down casually to pick up something I dropped than I ever have squatting.

    Quarter squats and dime squats are way harder on the knees because all that torque has no place else to go.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @Michael S

    I will take this under advisement due to you making very intelligent posts including no-vaxxx. Are you routinely doing full depth squats with weight?

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

  51. @prosa123
    Racquetball was a big sport among financial and professional types in the 1970's and 1980's but then went into a steep decline. From what I've heard, its nature appealed to hard-charging Alpha Males, yet somewhat paradoxically, in sharp contrast to tennis, two opponents of relatively different skill levels could still have an enjoyable game. It also was quite fast to learn. Compared to golf, racquetball took much less time to play, as an indoor game wasn't subject to weather and darkness considerations, and offered far better exercise value.

    Why racquetball declined so quickly and so severely is a bit of a mystery. What may be the most likely explanation is sheer inefficiency: racquetball courts take up a large amount of indoor space (20' x 40' x 20') that isn't suitable for anything else. Interestingly, the gym where I go is a former racquetball center that closed sometime in the 1990's. On a typical evening it holds probably 10x the number of people who could have been playing racquetball back when it was a racquetball center.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist, @Ralph L, @The Wild Geese Howard

    My college roommate broke his girlfriend’s tooth playing racquetball. She married him anyway.

  52. “I suspect golf is a white collar suburbanized version of the traditional blood sports …”

    [sic]

    • Replies: @anon
    @SunBakedSuburb


    A golf course is the willful and deliberate misuse of a perfectly good rifle range.

    Bill O’Connor
     
  53. I suspect that golf is a white collar suburbanized version of the traditional blood sports that appeal more to hunters than to gatherers.

    As I may have pointed out here before, the activity I’ve participated in that’s most similar to golf is driven shooting–in England, in my case. You’re with a few people supported by a lot of subalterns (gamekeeper and drivers vs. grounds crew) and it’s all very sociable, with the occasional drink built in. You have your loader who is basically your caddy and tells you what to expect, deals with your equipment etc.–all in a very pleasantly (if artificially engineered) bucolic environment.

    When the horn sounds you wait for birds to start coming over the line where each shooter/loader pair is stationed at a predetermined peg, then you all shoot your pheasants and maybe the occasional woodcock or whatever, then you head to the next spot and it starts all over again. After a couple of those you have a snack and a drink, then a couple more bouts of stylized shooting, then lunch, then a final go at the birds.

    The main thing missing that you get in golf is all the betting…plus the lack of actual slaughter I guess.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    @slumber_j


    As I may have pointed out here before
     
    If so, I missed it. Golf is the pathetic upper middle class analogue of the slaughter you reference.

    Normal middle class and upper middle class ijits spend years whacking a small white ball with a stick. We revel in the fact that we are permitted to be outdoors ! To enjoy sunshine ! Oh my!

    We’re so fucking fortunate ! We could have been these idiots who are our caddies!

    I’ve spent DECADES in this insane delusion. I am a white man. My wife is white, my kids are white. For the entirety of my life, I have been castigated as an evil oppressor. All I have ever hoped for is that my kids will have the opportunities that I had. That makes me an evil white supremacist oppressor today.

    I’m one of those asshole types who embraces all the epithets. Bring it.

    Replies: @slumber_j

    , @Steve Sailer
    @slumber_j

    In driven shooting do you stand in one place and they drive the birds to you?

    One difference would be that in golf you wander around this optimized landscape occasionally taking aim at a target, so it's like a cross between driven and regular bird hunting where you wander around looking for birds to shoot.

    I suspect golf evolved in lowland Scotland cities as an urban substitute for the hunting experience. Scottish coastal towns near the mouths of rivers like St. Andrews typically have a bunch of sand dunes (the river deposits sand into the ocean which gets blown back up on the land to form grass covered dunes) that aren't good for building on or growing crops on. I don't know whether you could go bird hunting on them. The thrifty Scots found the best combination of uses was sheep grazing and golf.

    Golf can be dangerous what with the players putting each other's eyes out, but they figured out how to organize the route of the players so the chance of that happening is minimized. A golf course is about a quarter of a square mile and can accommodate 144 players at once. To accommodate one tenth as many hunters you'd need to bring in birds and drive them toward the shooters. Otherwise, the urban hunters would wipe out all the prey within a short period.

    So golf emerged among bourgeois Scots as an alternative to the bloodsports of rural aristocrats.

    Replies: @StAugustine, @slumber_j

    , @JMcG
    @slumber_j

    There’s a lot of betting in a duck blind.

  54. @prosa123
    Racquetball was a big sport among financial and professional types in the 1970's and 1980's but then went into a steep decline. From what I've heard, its nature appealed to hard-charging Alpha Males, yet somewhat paradoxically, in sharp contrast to tennis, two opponents of relatively different skill levels could still have an enjoyable game. It also was quite fast to learn. Compared to golf, racquetball took much less time to play, as an indoor game wasn't subject to weather and darkness considerations, and offered far better exercise value.

    Why racquetball declined so quickly and so severely is a bit of a mystery. What may be the most likely explanation is sheer inefficiency: racquetball courts take up a large amount of indoor space (20' x 40' x 20') that isn't suitable for anything else. Interestingly, the gym where I go is a former racquetball center that closed sometime in the 1990's. On a typical evening it holds probably 10x the number of people who could have been playing racquetball back when it was a racquetball center.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist, @Ralph L, @The Wild Geese Howard

    Racquetball was a big sport among financial and professional types in the 1970’s and 1980’s but then went into a steep decline. From what I’ve heard, its nature appealed to hard-charging Alpha Males, yet somewhat paradoxically, in sharp contrast to tennis, two opponents of relatively different skill levels could still have an enjoyable game.

    Obligatory Wall Street (1987) clip:

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    I played a lot of racketball in the 1970s and 1980s, but then got tired of it. The court is like a sensory deprivation tank, the opposite of a golf course.

    It has some advantages. It's a pretty easy game to rise to a level of mediocrity. And a good player can hold back pretty easily and let a mediocre player stay in the game.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute, @International Jew, @theMann

    , @PiltdownMan
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Aren't they actually playing squash in that scene? Squash used to be the ultimate preppy sport when I was in business school, the same time as Mr. Sailer, and definitely helped when interviewing on Wall Street. There were a couple of guys in my graduating class from India and Pakistan, both upper class types who played squash back home. They both got offers, in an era where South Asians otherwise wouldn't have gotten a second look from the likes of Morgan Stanley or Shearson.


    Racquetball, though, as you say, became big in that decade, perhaps because it was an easier game to master, and more accessible, because proper squash courts were hard to find, outside of the Ivies and a few private colleges in the Northeast.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  55. I recall from “The House of Morgan” book that until the 1960s investment bankers would often partake in a “two hour lunch” with plenty of cocktails in between. But eventually this cherished practice was phased out in the emerging rough and tumble new world of electronic finance. Upstarts would often eat at their desk and then resume screaming into their phones.

    https://www.amazon.com/The-House-of-Morgan-Ron-Chernow-audiobook/dp/B00I3P36ZU/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2BGRLOIRTB1UD&dchild=1&keywords=the+house+of+morgan+by+ron+chernow&qid=1624420200&sprefix=The+House+of+Mor%2Caps%2C274&sr=8-1

    While “Mad Men” featured the world of marketing, the constant smoking, lack of exercise, and also tremendously long lunches made sure both marketers and investment bankers had weak physiques. (In JP Morgan’s day, doctors believed exercise was actually very bad, you simply outworn your muscles and joints. It was better to be fat and stationary.) But it’s likely a sure bet modern investment bankers are healthier and more health minded than their predisessors.

  56. @Desiderius
    https://twitter.com/Super70sSports/status/1407344095454973964?s=20

    They even beat Burke at his own game. Crushed my (and Ricky’s) young Big Red Machine dreams too.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri, @njguy73

    OK, so I got Reggie Smith (L) Ron Cey (2L) Davey Lopes (4L) Rick Monday (3R) Steve Garvey (2R) and Dusty Baker (R). Who did I miss?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @njguy73

    Steve Yeager, Bill Russell, and a pitcher, probably. It was the opposite of the Big Red Machine: instead of 4 Hall of Famers (counting Rose), three of them inner circle (Morgan, Bench, and Rose), the 1970s Dodgers were one outer circle Hall of Famer (Don Sutton) and a whole bunch of above average players who were there year after year.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  57. @The Wild Geese Howard
    @prosa123


    Racquetball was a big sport among financial and professional types in the 1970’s and 1980’s but then went into a steep decline. From what I’ve heard, its nature appealed to hard-charging Alpha Males, yet somewhat paradoxically, in sharp contrast to tennis, two opponents of relatively different skill levels could still have an enjoyable game.
     
    Obligatory Wall Street (1987) clip:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgtW6-XWv80

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @PiltdownMan

    I played a lot of racketball in the 1970s and 1980s, but then got tired of it. The court is like a sensory deprivation tank, the opposite of a golf course.

    It has some advantages. It’s a pretty easy game to rise to a level of mediocrity. And a good player can hold back pretty easily and let a mediocre player stay in the game.

    • Agree: PiltdownMan, Stan d Mute
    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve, you were on track with the “sensory deprivation “ angle. It’s madness in a box. Anecdotally, I smacked my adopted dad in the nuts with a racquet ball. He thought it intentional. I thought it hilarious (and 100% accidental).

    By contrast, I nearly killed my best customer with a golf ball. Had he not ducked at the exact moment, he’d have had a titleist to the temple that would have surely ended his aspirations.

    Point is, it’s all meaningless bullshit. Who cares? In 500 years, who remembers? In 10,000 years, who can even dig up fanciful “evidence”?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    , @International Jew
    @Steve Sailer


    The court is like a sensory deprivation tank
     
    Haha, exactly.

    But it's not true that tennis is ill-suited to mismatched players. You let the weaker player hit into the alleys, or you play two-on-one, or the stronger player gets just one serve (or in extremis he has to serve underhand).
    , @theMann
    @Steve Sailer

    Even though Golf has zero appeal to me personally, I actually like the fact that a lot of people are out there working on a skill that is difficult to do poorly, let alone well.

    Golf has to develop one's tenacity and hand/eye skills, seems to me a very good thing.

  58. @njguy73
    @Desiderius

    OK, so I got Reggie Smith (L) Ron Cey (2L) Davey Lopes (4L) Rick Monday (3R) Steve Garvey (2R) and Dusty Baker (R). Who did I miss?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Steve Yeager, Bill Russell, and a pitcher, probably. It was the opposite of the Big Red Machine: instead of 4 Hall of Famers (counting Rose), three of them inner circle (Morgan, Bench, and Rose), the 1970s Dodgers were one outer circle Hall of Famer (Don Sutton) and a whole bunch of above average players who were there year after year.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Steve Sailer

    Believe it or not that is Don Sutton in the pic. To Steve’s point pretty amazing that the only HoFer in the pic is the last one people can identify. Sort of like the 70s-80s Bengals in that respect, although doubt there’s a pic where you couldn’t pick out Munoz.

  59. @prosa123
    @Clyde

    Ample research shows that full-depth squats are not harder on the knees than partial ones.

    https://barbend.com/deep-squats-bad-for-knees/

    Replies: @Clyde

    Ample research shows that full-depth squats are not harder on the knees than partial ones.
    https://barbend.com/deep-squats-bad-for-knees/

    This range of motion is unnatural. Far better to go down no further than thighs parallel to the floor. Then if you like do more squats and/or add weights. I feel sorry for the guys I see going full depth down then coming back up with 300+ lbs of weights. Here’s your jamokes doing it!

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Clyde

    Bet he has no problem using a Japanese toilet!



    https://resources.matcha-jp.com/archive_files/jp/2015/09/2d24cbd7a75562246941620b28f09007-849x1024.jpg

    Replies: @Clyde

  60. I point this out to keep this article from confusing my fellow 20th Century folks.

    Thanks for that. I have a relative who was a bank “Vice President” of the silent generation. He was close enough to have bequeathed me some $$$.

    There is no equivalency between the 1970’s and 1980’s banker and today. It’s about like asking your general practitioner to make a house call. If you are still comparing the America of the 1950’s, 1960’s, 1970’s and 1980’s to the “America” of today?

    U R A Retard. God bless my Russian brothers, Vodka is Truth.

    Okay, so maybe I am (congenitally drunk and high), but how the fuck hard is any of this to figure out? This isn’t “dark matter”. This isn’t “quantum entanglement”. Some people are smart, some people are stupid, the ratios change depending on genes. Get the fuck over it.

  61. @SunBakedSuburb
    "I suspect golf is a white collar suburbanized version of the traditional blood sports ..."

    [sic]

    Replies: @anon

    A golf course is the willful and deliberate misuse of a perfectly good rifle range.

    Bill O’Connor

  62. @The Wild Geese Howard
    @prosa123


    Racquetball was a big sport among financial and professional types in the 1970’s and 1980’s but then went into a steep decline. From what I’ve heard, its nature appealed to hard-charging Alpha Males, yet somewhat paradoxically, in sharp contrast to tennis, two opponents of relatively different skill levels could still have an enjoyable game.
     
    Obligatory Wall Street (1987) clip:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgtW6-XWv80

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @PiltdownMan

    Aren’t they actually playing squash in that scene? Squash used to be the ultimate preppy sport when I was in business school, the same time as Mr. Sailer, and definitely helped when interviewing on Wall Street. There were a couple of guys in my graduating class from India and Pakistan, both upper class types who played squash back home. They both got offers, in an era where South Asians otherwise wouldn’t have gotten a second look from the likes of Morgan Stanley or Shearson.

    Racquetball, though, as you say, became big in that decade, perhaps because it was an easier game to master, and more accessible, because proper squash courts were hard to find, outside of the Ivies and a few private colleges in the Northeast.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @PiltdownMan

    The professors at Rice U. in the late 1970s refused to play the trendy game of racquetball, saying that they "just fell in love with squash in Cambridge."

    Looks like squash outlasted racketball.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Desiderius

  63. @Steve Sailer
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    I played a lot of racketball in the 1970s and 1980s, but then got tired of it. The court is like a sensory deprivation tank, the opposite of a golf course.

    It has some advantages. It's a pretty easy game to rise to a level of mediocrity. And a good player can hold back pretty easily and let a mediocre player stay in the game.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute, @International Jew, @theMann

    Steve, you were on track with the “sensory deprivation “ angle. It’s madness in a box. Anecdotally, I smacked my adopted dad in the nuts with a racquet ball. He thought it intentional. I thought it hilarious (and 100% accidental).

    By contrast, I nearly killed my best customer with a golf ball. Had he not ducked at the exact moment, he’d have had a titleist to the temple that would have surely ended his aspirations.

    Point is, it’s all meaningless bullshit. Who cares? In 500 years, who remembers? In 10,000 years, who can even dig up fanciful “evidence”?

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Stan d Mute

    I was having lunch in a restaurant's COVID parking lot tent near Teterboro airport last summer and overheard the salesman at the table nearby tell his guests over sangria that he used to be a pilot, before losing an eye to a golf ball. He seemed in pretty good spirits though.

    I had thought I tweeted that story before so I searched for my handle and "golf ball" and didn't find it. I did find this video of Mike Trout crushing a golf ball at a driving range though:

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1234332925379928065

    Replies: @Desiderius

  64. @Michael S
    @Clyde


    If you do [squats] don’t mess up your knees by going all the way down.
     
    That's retarded. Depth doesn't mess up your knees, poor form does. You can go ass to grass and as long as you use your glutes to push out of the hole, and don't bend your knees way out in front of you, you'll be fine. (The idea that your knees have to be perfectly parallel with your feet is also a myth, but at least has a grain of truth to it.)

    Using good squat form whenever you need to bend down - no matter how far - is actually protective. I've tweaked a knee far more times just bending down casually to pick up something I dropped than I ever have squatting.

    Quarter squats and dime squats are way harder on the knees because all that torque has no place else to go.

    Replies: @Clyde

    I will take this under advisement due to you making very intelligent posts including no-vaxxx. Are you routinely doing full depth squats with weight?

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Clyde

    Done them since I was a teenager. My knees are doing great four decades later.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6e/d2/1b/6ed21b448e135cf767828f4f0db81fb0.jpg

  65. @scrivener3
    Do they still have investment bankers?

    There is so much private investment capital I cannot believe Goldman or whatever was instrumental in building any of the companies emerging today. Is there a difference between venture capital (private pools of major money looking for a business to invest in - like shark tank) and investment banking (a few wall street firms and big banks who put money into risky startup equity)?

    Hard to believe NY bankers can compete with Northern California private equity. Don't the NY bankers have to spend a lot of time . . . in NY? Which might as well be Siberia.

    I will say when it is time to go public the NYC lawyers (me me me) and the investment banks swoop in for their rather large slice, but that may not be forever.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    Even in the heydey of my time in IB, I made it clear I was in PE.

  66. @slumber_j

    I suspect that golf is a white collar suburbanized version of the traditional blood sports that appeal more to hunters than to gatherers.
     
    As I may have pointed out here before, the activity I've participated in that's most similar to golf is driven shooting--in England, in my case. You're with a few people supported by a lot of subalterns (gamekeeper and drivers vs. grounds crew) and it's all very sociable, with the occasional drink built in. You have your loader who is basically your caddy and tells you what to expect, deals with your equipment etc.--all in a very pleasantly (if artificially engineered) bucolic environment.

    When the horn sounds you wait for birds to start coming over the line where each shooter/loader pair is stationed at a predetermined peg, then you all shoot your pheasants and maybe the occasional woodcock or whatever, then you head to the next spot and it starts all over again. After a couple of those you have a snack and a drink, then a couple more bouts of stylized shooting, then lunch, then a final go at the birds.

    The main thing missing that you get in golf is all the betting...plus the lack of actual slaughter I guess.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute, @Steve Sailer, @JMcG

    As I may have pointed out here before

    If so, I missed it. Golf is the pathetic upper middle class analogue of the slaughter you reference.

    Normal middle class and upper middle class ijits spend years whacking a small white ball with a stick. We revel in the fact that we are permitted to be outdoors ! To enjoy sunshine ! Oh my!

    We’re so fucking fortunate ! We could have been these idiots who are our caddies!

    I’ve spent DECADES in this insane delusion. I am a white man. My wife is white, my kids are white. For the entirety of my life, I have been castigated as an evil oppressor. All I have ever hoped for is that my kids will have the opportunities that I had. That makes me an evil white supremacist oppressor today.

    I’m one of those asshole types who embraces all the epithets. Bring it.

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    @Stan d Mute


    We’re so fucking fortunate ! We could have been these idiots who are our caddies!
     
    The class divisions at a driven shoot are pretty stark/traditional, verging on the feudal.

    Or you could think of it as a military structure I suppose: the shooters are the clueless officer class, the loaders and gamekeepers are the NCOs (with the head gamekeeper being their commandant), and the beaters are the soldiers. The last are generally people from the village who are paid a (very) token sum to beat the bushes and flush the birds but do it anyway, because "it's a good day out," as they invariably say.

    I guess in this analogy the landowner is the king, and indeed he sometimes actually owns the village. That was the case with the guy who owned this place, where I went on a shoot some years ago: https://www.overburyestate.co.uk/history.html

    Replies: @Ralph L

  67. @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Neil Tennant of the Pet Shop Boys seems to have ripped off his singing style from Al Stewart.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Neil Tennant of the Pet Shop Boys seems to have ripped off his singing style from Al Stewart.

    Is he an œnophile like Stewart, who called his Napa Valley neighbors a “vast red-wine conspiracy”?

  68. @slumber_j

    I suspect that golf is a white collar suburbanized version of the traditional blood sports that appeal more to hunters than to gatherers.
     
    As I may have pointed out here before, the activity I've participated in that's most similar to golf is driven shooting--in England, in my case. You're with a few people supported by a lot of subalterns (gamekeeper and drivers vs. grounds crew) and it's all very sociable, with the occasional drink built in. You have your loader who is basically your caddy and tells you what to expect, deals with your equipment etc.--all in a very pleasantly (if artificially engineered) bucolic environment.

    When the horn sounds you wait for birds to start coming over the line where each shooter/loader pair is stationed at a predetermined peg, then you all shoot your pheasants and maybe the occasional woodcock or whatever, then you head to the next spot and it starts all over again. After a couple of those you have a snack and a drink, then a couple more bouts of stylized shooting, then lunch, then a final go at the birds.

    The main thing missing that you get in golf is all the betting...plus the lack of actual slaughter I guess.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute, @Steve Sailer, @JMcG

    In driven shooting do you stand in one place and they drive the birds to you?

    One difference would be that in golf you wander around this optimized landscape occasionally taking aim at a target, so it’s like a cross between driven and regular bird hunting where you wander around looking for birds to shoot.

    I suspect golf evolved in lowland Scotland cities as an urban substitute for the hunting experience. Scottish coastal towns near the mouths of rivers like St. Andrews typically have a bunch of sand dunes (the river deposits sand into the ocean which gets blown back up on the land to form grass covered dunes) that aren’t good for building on or growing crops on. I don’t know whether you could go bird hunting on them. The thrifty Scots found the best combination of uses was sheep grazing and golf.

    Golf can be dangerous what with the players putting each other’s eyes out, but they figured out how to organize the route of the players so the chance of that happening is minimized. A golf course is about a quarter of a square mile and can accommodate 144 players at once. To accommodate one tenth as many hunters you’d need to bring in birds and drive them toward the shooters. Otherwise, the urban hunters would wipe out all the prey within a short period.

    So golf emerged among bourgeois Scots as an alternative to the bloodsports of rural aristocrats.

    • Replies: @StAugustine
    @Steve Sailer

    Of the three shootings, it's more like sporting clays/pigeons - I assume because we americans don't have the population density to pay for professional bird farms just for hunting (fisheries yes). Trap - stand and shoot clays going out from your feet, and skeet, circle and shoot the same trajectory from different angles don't have the walking/golf cart angle. In the setup we had, you walk along a similar park as a golf course and the trajectories are meant to be different species of birds in pairs. You could shoot them one by one or together, the best being if you could get both clays with one load of birdshot.

    Replies: @slumber_j

    , @slumber_j
    @Steve Sailer


    In driven shooting do you stand in one place and they drive the birds to you?
     
    Yeah, but you do it at several--usually very different--places on whichever aristocrat's land it is. So the birds come in high, they come in low, they come from that copse over there (but some of them will come around right of it) etc. etc. Hence the need for a loader's advice on what's happening in a given spot.

    Here's some good footage from 1949:

    https://youtu.be/mt54_Wzo8ko
  69. @PiltdownMan
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    Aren't they actually playing squash in that scene? Squash used to be the ultimate preppy sport when I was in business school, the same time as Mr. Sailer, and definitely helped when interviewing on Wall Street. There were a couple of guys in my graduating class from India and Pakistan, both upper class types who played squash back home. They both got offers, in an era where South Asians otherwise wouldn't have gotten a second look from the likes of Morgan Stanley or Shearson.


    Racquetball, though, as you say, became big in that decade, perhaps because it was an easier game to master, and more accessible, because proper squash courts were hard to find, outside of the Ivies and a few private colleges in the Northeast.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    The professors at Rice U. in the late 1970s refused to play the trendy game of racquetball, saying that they “just fell in love with squash in Cambridge.”

    Looks like squash outlasted racketball.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    The professors at Rice U. in the late 1970s refused to play the trendy game of racquetball, saying that they “just fell in love with squash in Cambridge.”
     
    No jai-alai? Or is that just Florida?
    , @Desiderius
    @Steve Sailer

    Only place I’ve played squash was at decidedly unposh UMIST so maybe less class exclusive in the Commonwealth.

  70. @Morton's toes
    @Cortes


    Runners, as opposed to mere recreational joggers, like to demonstrate how much they suffer for their virtue.
     
    My exercise guru is Juan Carlos Santana. He is a retired power lifter with bad knees, bad hips, and one bad shoulder and he refers to the dirty secret of athletic training. Generally it subtracts from longevity and it subtracts a large amount from quality of life.

    His program is loose and variable and explicitly pain free. If it hurts, stop. Do something else. His book has hundreds of different exercise variations so don't quit working out. Just quit punishing your knee or your wrist or whatever.

    https://www.amazon.com/Functional-Training-Juan-Carlos-Santana/dp/1450414826

    The Mark's Daily Apple guy was a professional triathlete and he says his life changed immensely for the better when he quit endurance training for good many years ago. The guy who ran the first marathon 25 centuries ago dropped dead when he finished.

    On the other hand Malcom Gladwell did 5:15 mile in a celebrity track meet a couple months ago. I have always found Gladwell's popular writing tedious as a User's License Agreement to read but when I saw that I was impressed. They interviewed him after and asked "what are you going to do now?"

    And he said "I am going to go home and sleep."

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @JMcG, @Clyde, @Anonymous

    The guy who completed the 1st Marathon also fought in the battle of Marathon before he made his run.

    • Replies: @Ralph L
    @Redneck farmer

    That would make modern ones much more interesting.

  71. @Clyde
    @prosa123


    Ample research shows that full-depth squats are not harder on the knees than partial ones.
    https://barbend.com/deep-squats-bad-for-knees/
     
    This range of motion is unnatural. Far better to go down no further than thighs parallel to the floor. Then if you like do more squats and/or add weights. I feel sorry for the guys I see going full depth down then coming back up with 300+ lbs of weights. Here's your jamokes doing it!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOL-AEZwny0

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Bet he has no problem using a Japanese toilet!

    • LOL: Kronos
    • Replies: @Clyde
    @Reg Cæsar

    Been there done this. You must visit Japan and do it (squat) too. Unless time and money is a factor. Taiwan too. Maybe Shenzhen

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

  72. @Steve Sailer
    @PiltdownMan

    The professors at Rice U. in the late 1970s refused to play the trendy game of racquetball, saying that they "just fell in love with squash in Cambridge."

    Looks like squash outlasted racketball.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Desiderius

    The professors at Rice U. in the late 1970s refused to play the trendy game of racquetball, saying that they “just fell in love with squash in Cambridge.”

    No jai-alai? Or is that just Florida?

  73. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @prosa123

    Great observations about racquetball. You're right that it's a good game for mismatched opponents to play, unlike other raquet sports such as tennis and squash, which are pretty awful if the two players aren't reasonably close to each other in skill/ability.

    It's a pity that racquetball courts and squash courts aren't the same size, and that the two sports had to compete for space, essentially.

    Squash has a better pedigree as a sport, is more global, and is more challenging, so I suppose in Fussellian terms that makes it classier, and perhaps that's why it's still going while it seems racquetball has faded away. But I've played both a bit, and raquetball is much more fun for the novice. If you're not good at squash, you spend most of your time on court just picking up the ball.

    Replies: @photondancer

    Racquetball and squash are played on the same courts in Oz.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @photondancer

    I assume you play racquetball on original squash courts, then? Or is it the other way around?

  74. @Steve Sailer
    @slumber_j

    In driven shooting do you stand in one place and they drive the birds to you?

    One difference would be that in golf you wander around this optimized landscape occasionally taking aim at a target, so it's like a cross between driven and regular bird hunting where you wander around looking for birds to shoot.

    I suspect golf evolved in lowland Scotland cities as an urban substitute for the hunting experience. Scottish coastal towns near the mouths of rivers like St. Andrews typically have a bunch of sand dunes (the river deposits sand into the ocean which gets blown back up on the land to form grass covered dunes) that aren't good for building on or growing crops on. I don't know whether you could go bird hunting on them. The thrifty Scots found the best combination of uses was sheep grazing and golf.

    Golf can be dangerous what with the players putting each other's eyes out, but they figured out how to organize the route of the players so the chance of that happening is minimized. A golf course is about a quarter of a square mile and can accommodate 144 players at once. To accommodate one tenth as many hunters you'd need to bring in birds and drive them toward the shooters. Otherwise, the urban hunters would wipe out all the prey within a short period.

    So golf emerged among bourgeois Scots as an alternative to the bloodsports of rural aristocrats.

    Replies: @StAugustine, @slumber_j

    Of the three shootings, it’s more like sporting clays/pigeons – I assume because we americans don’t have the population density to pay for professional bird farms just for hunting (fisheries yes). Trap – stand and shoot clays going out from your feet, and skeet, circle and shoot the same trajectory from different angles don’t have the walking/golf cart angle. In the setup we had, you walk along a similar park as a golf course and the trajectories are meant to be different species of birds in pairs. You could shoot them one by one or together, the best being if you could get both clays with one load of birdshot.

    • Replies: @slumber_j
    @StAugustine

    Yeah, but what I'm talking about involves actual birds. Lots of them.

  75. That makes it a far more inclusive option for client and employee bonding than traditional corporate activities such as golf

    No way. When two runners of different ability go out together, one of them is talking while the other one is reduced to panting. Unless they slow way down and then the better runner isn’t getting a workout.

    Whereas golfers of vastly different skill levels can play together pretty comfortably (observing a stroke limit of course).

    I’ll allow that mismatched running partners isn’t quite as bad as mismatched boxing partners.

    — an important consideration as the finance industry comes under increasing pressure to improve its gender diversity.

    Yeah, nothing reinforces the egalitarian illusion like the girls falling off the back of the pack.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    @International Jew

    > That makes [running] a far more inclusive option for client and employee bonding than traditional corporate activities such as golf

    This bonding technique excludes the overweight, arthritis sufferers, pretty much everybody in poor health. Even to FT reporter Laura Noonan, this must be obvious.

    But Noonan isn't using inclusive to mean "not excluding any of the parties or groups involved in something." The word is a synonym for good.

    After all, her kind of people like running, a lot. So how could it not be inclusive?

    Going back to the "Sailer's catchiest phrases" post of a few weeks past, his coining (popularization?) of "midwit" makes it easy to understand Noonan's writings.

    Replies: @anon

  76. @Steve Sailer
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    I played a lot of racketball in the 1970s and 1980s, but then got tired of it. The court is like a sensory deprivation tank, the opposite of a golf course.

    It has some advantages. It's a pretty easy game to rise to a level of mediocrity. And a good player can hold back pretty easily and let a mediocre player stay in the game.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute, @International Jew, @theMann

    The court is like a sensory deprivation tank

    Haha, exactly.

    But it’s not true that tennis is ill-suited to mismatched players. You let the weaker player hit into the alleys, or you play two-on-one, or the stronger player gets just one serve (or in extremis he has to serve underhand).

  77. @jon
    @Clyde


    If you do this don’t mess up your knees by going all the way down.
     
    Just get one of these, or find a gym that has one:
    https://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/exerciseImages/sequences/921/Male/l/921_2.jpg

    Easier on the back than deadlifts, easier on the knees than squats, good form comes naturally, and the amount of weight you can handle is great for the ego.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    That’s called a trap bar.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Dave Pinsen

    https://cuttystrength.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/leg-press-old-school.jpg

    Deathtrap bar.


    https://fs.blog/2015/05/kyle-bass-freediving/
    Kyle Bass: I’ve searched for that my whole life. I found it about six years ago. My favorite thing in the world is to do freediving and spearfishing. I know you live on an island. I could do that if I wasn’t running this firm, meaning as a lifestyle choice. I have a little Hemingway in me.
    Raoul Pal: What is it about spearfishing and freediving that you like? I don’t spearfish. Freediving, I’ve had lessons in, and it’s a fascinating thing because it’s very internal.
    Kyle: It’s internal. It’s a beautiful thing. It’s like when you think about the greatest battles in the world, they’ve always been civil wars, just like I think the greatest battles you and I fight are in our head. It’s between ourselves. The biggest battles that most people fight are with themselves.
    When I was in college, I helped pay for college through … I had a diving and an academic scholarship. I was, primarily, a springboard diver. That was, I would say, 80 percent mental, 20 percent physical, even though it looks all physical. It’s you versus yourself. It’s you convincing yourself that you can do this, and do it as well or better than anyone else.
    Freediving, very similar. It’s you knowing yourself. It’s you teaching yourself how to regulate your heart rate. It’s how to control your emotions. It’s made me better at controlling my emotions in the office.
    Raoul: It’s kind of where I was going to get to this.
    Kyle: The beautiful part of freediving for me and spearfishing is the day-to-day “grind” that we go through. My phone rings 24/7. I take that back. I turn my phone off at night, so there’s only a select few that can get through at night.
    But during the day, I’m pulled in a thousand different directions. Regardless of how much I try to control my path through the day, things pop up. You have people everywhere pulling you 50 different ways.
    The moment I go underwater in the ocean, it’s Zen-like for me. My phone can’t ring. No one can bother me. I’m typically there with people that I want to be there with, my team. I always dive with a team. Then it’s me versus myself. It literally is Zen-like, and I’ve gotten so much better at being calm that I go 8-10 hours a day.

    Raoul: Wow. Because a lot of people do the similar thing with yoga, and actually, yoga and freediving have a lot in common.

    Kyle: Do they?

    Raoul: Yeah. Lots of the great freedivers now learn yoga to understand how to control their body and control their minds.

    Kyle: I have a problem with yoga. My mind drifts. When I’m freediving, I’m focused. I’m focused on the potential threats, because I primarily do it all in the Bahamas, so we see sharks every day. I’m not that afraid of sharks. I respect them.

    The difference, for me, between yoga and freediving is in yoga you’re sitting there, and you’re in a solitary moment, and you’re trying to focus on things mentally. But — I don’t know, I need the freediving aspect of it to be really centered. … That’s how I get centered.

    Raoul: Yeah, you have a physical focus then, as well.

    Kyle: Yeah. I’m always searching for the next great hogfish, or grouper, or lobster to eat that night. We eat what we shoot. It’s a beautiful, beautiful cycle that I go through, and I can do it for weeks on end.
     

  78. @Stan d Mute
    @Steve Sailer

    Steve, you were on track with the “sensory deprivation “ angle. It’s madness in a box. Anecdotally, I smacked my adopted dad in the nuts with a racquet ball. He thought it intentional. I thought it hilarious (and 100% accidental).

    By contrast, I nearly killed my best customer with a golf ball. Had he not ducked at the exact moment, he’d have had a titleist to the temple that would have surely ended his aspirations.

    Point is, it’s all meaningless bullshit. Who cares? In 500 years, who remembers? In 10,000 years, who can even dig up fanciful “evidence”?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    I was having lunch in a restaurant’s COVID parking lot tent near Teterboro airport last summer and overheard the salesman at the table nearby tell his guests over sangria that he used to be a pilot, before losing an eye to a golf ball. He seemed in pretty good spirits though.

    I had thought I tweeted that story before so I searched for my handle and “golf ball” and didn’t find it. I did find this video of Mike Trout crushing a golf ball at a driving range though:

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1234332925379928065

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Dave Pinsen

    I know Brodie played on the Seniors and Bench tried. Have any Baseball players made it on the Tour?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

  79. @Redneck farmer
    @Morton's toes

    The guy who completed the 1st Marathon also fought in the battle of Marathon before he made his run.

    Replies: @Ralph L

    That would make modern ones much more interesting.

    • LOL: Redneck farmer
  80. @Frank McGar
    Hardcore runners look terrible as they age. Gaunt and weak And they usually have all kinds of injuries. I believe long distance runners have shorter lifespans as well. If you're going to run, light jogging a few times a week (2-3 miles) at a moderate pace combined with weightlifting is much better.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    I have an uncle who was a good college athlete (football lineman, but back when they weighed 220 instead of 320), and who then took up hard-core running as an adult. He powered onward through numerous leg problems, but then developed debilitating back trouble, had less-than-successful surgeries, and ended up walking with a cane in his late 50s/60s.

    I’m about 20 years younger than him, so I was around 40 when he really started breaking down. I’d been running quite a bit myself, but seeing what it did to him convinced me to drop it and start doing more reasonable forms of exercise.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Frank McGar
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    Yep, that was the way of the old-timers: powering through injuries. And if something was considered healthy or good for you, the mindset was more is better. If you took a day off that was considered slacking, whereas now we know how important recovery is when it comes to physical activity. Long distance running seems to be more of an addiction than a healthy pursuit.

  81. @Dave Pinsen
    @jon

    That's called a trap bar.

    Replies: @Sean


    Deathtrap bar.

    https://fs.blog/2015/05/kyle-bass-freediving/
    Kyle Bass: I’ve searched for that my whole life. I found it about six years ago. My favorite thing in the world is to do freediving and spearfishing. I know you live on an island. I could do that if I wasn’t running this firm, meaning as a lifestyle choice. I have a little Hemingway in me.
    Raoul Pal: What is it about spearfishing and freediving that you like? I don’t spearfish. Freediving, I’ve had lessons in, and it’s a fascinating thing because it’s very internal.
    Kyle: It’s internal. It’s a beautiful thing. It’s like when you think about the greatest battles in the world, they’ve always been civil wars, just like I think the greatest battles you and I fight are in our head. It’s between ourselves. The biggest battles that most people fight are with themselves.
    When I was in college, I helped pay for college through … I had a diving and an academic scholarship. I was, primarily, a springboard diver. That was, I would say, 80 percent mental, 20 percent physical, even though it looks all physical. It’s you versus yourself. It’s you convincing yourself that you can do this, and do it as well or better than anyone else.
    Freediving, very similar. It’s you knowing yourself. It’s you teaching yourself how to regulate your heart rate. It’s how to control your emotions. It’s made me better at controlling my emotions in the office.
    Raoul: It’s kind of where I was going to get to this.
    Kyle: The beautiful part of freediving for me and spearfishing is the day-to-day “grind” that we go through. My phone rings 24/7. I take that back. I turn my phone off at night, so there’s only a select few that can get through at night.
    But during the day, I’m pulled in a thousand different directions. Regardless of how much I try to control my path through the day, things pop up. You have people everywhere pulling you 50 different ways.
    The moment I go underwater in the ocean, it’s Zen-like for me. My phone can’t ring. No one can bother me. I’m typically there with people that I want to be there with, my team. I always dive with a team. Then it’s me versus myself. It literally is Zen-like, and I’ve gotten so much better at being calm that I go 8-10 hours a day.

    Raoul: Wow. Because a lot of people do the similar thing with yoga, and actually, yoga and freediving have a lot in common.

    Kyle: Do they?

    Raoul: Yeah. Lots of the great freedivers now learn yoga to understand how to control their body and control their minds.

    Kyle: I have a problem with yoga. My mind drifts. When I’m freediving, I’m focused. I’m focused on the potential threats, because I primarily do it all in the Bahamas, so we see sharks every day. I’m not that afraid of sharks. I respect them.

    The difference, for me, between yoga and freediving is in yoga you’re sitting there, and you’re in a solitary moment, and you’re trying to focus on things mentally. But — I don’t know, I need the freediving aspect of it to be really centered. … That’s how I get centered.

    Raoul: Yeah, you have a physical focus then, as well.

    Kyle: Yeah. I’m always searching for the next great hogfish, or grouper, or lobster to eat that night. We eat what we shoot. It’s a beautiful, beautiful cycle that I go through, and I can do it for weeks on end.

    • Thanks: Johnny Rico
  82. @photondancer
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    Racquetball and squash are played on the same courts in Oz.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    I assume you play racquetball on original squash courts, then? Or is it the other way around?

  83. @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia
    As a person who spent quite a few years in the finance/brokerage business, Steve's distinction about the two categories of "bankers" is spot on.

    Today's top business school grad wants to go into either hedge funds, venture capital, or consulting. Consulting has become more "humane" (working associates to the bone was common a decade or so ago, now "work/life balance" is the mantra, so they can get a lot females in the door). Hedge fund and VC work promise untold riches for those who can cut it.

    Investment banking has lost a lot of its cache. Go to work fresh out of B-school for Goldman, or JP Morgan, or Barclays, and you might get walking papers in the next downturn.

    Institutional trading, in the past another entre into a place like Goldman, is no longer an option for most B-School grads, unless you also come equipped with a PhD in applied math or physics.

    The standing joke in the finance business goes like this: what was the most important date in the last 30 years in finance?

    Some answer the repeal of Glass Steagall, or high speed fiber optic cables, or some such.

    No, the answer is--when the Congress declined to fund the next gen Large Hadron Collider in Texas and it went to Cern. It was going to be a full employment opportunity for an entire generation of American physicists. Instead, they all went to Wall Street, and that's how we got algorithmic trading, which drives almost all of the daily market moves today.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Desiderius

    Typically, you need to do a couple of years in i-banking before you move to hedge funds, VC, or PE.

    Consulting has more modest pay, but the work-life balance is good.

    Watch this funny 4-minute video to understand banking vs consultant.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Both abstracted out of their traditional responsibilities and capabilities.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

  84. @Cortes
    Runners, as opposed to mere recreational joggers, like to demonstrate how much they suffer for their virtue. To see the agonising grimaces you’d think they were being pursued through the city by the hounds of Dracula. In another context they’d be flagellants. All playacting, of course, like their brethren on pushbikes, all kidding themselves on they could’ve been competing in the Olympics or Tour de France.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @LondonBob, @Ragno

    Running is desperately dull, cycling is just about fine.

    I do fifteen minutes on a rowing machine, any more and I just become bored. Otherwise I play at least two hours of football a week, team sports are much more entertaining.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @LondonBob

    When The Clash made their best album, London Calling, they took time out in the middle of about 8-9 hours per days in the studio to play 2 hours of soccer daily. Seems like a good lifestyle, one they unfortunately didn't keep up.

    Replies: @Arclight

  85. @LondonBob
    @Cortes

    Running is desperately dull, cycling is just about fine.

    https://youtu.be/O6SEXp3-lo8

    I do fifteen minutes on a rowing machine, any more and I just become bored. Otherwise I play at least two hours of football a week, team sports are much more entertaining.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    When The Clash made their best album, London Calling, they took time out in the middle of about 8-9 hours per days in the studio to play 2 hours of soccer daily. Seems like a good lifestyle, one they unfortunately didn’t keep up.

    • Replies: @Arclight
    @Steve Sailer

    A few years ago Iron Maiden was in town and the word was put out to the local suburban dads soccer league to round up some of the better players for a match against the band since that's what they like to do in their free time to stay in shape while touring. One of my friends took part and said they played for like 2 hours and they were pretty decent considering their age (my friend is in his 40s).

  86. @Morton's toes
    @Cortes


    Runners, as opposed to mere recreational joggers, like to demonstrate how much they suffer for their virtue.
     
    My exercise guru is Juan Carlos Santana. He is a retired power lifter with bad knees, bad hips, and one bad shoulder and he refers to the dirty secret of athletic training. Generally it subtracts from longevity and it subtracts a large amount from quality of life.

    His program is loose and variable and explicitly pain free. If it hurts, stop. Do something else. His book has hundreds of different exercise variations so don't quit working out. Just quit punishing your knee or your wrist or whatever.

    https://www.amazon.com/Functional-Training-Juan-Carlos-Santana/dp/1450414826

    The Mark's Daily Apple guy was a professional triathlete and he says his life changed immensely for the better when he quit endurance training for good many years ago. The guy who ran the first marathon 25 centuries ago dropped dead when he finished.

    On the other hand Malcom Gladwell did 5:15 mile in a celebrity track meet a couple months ago. I have always found Gladwell's popular writing tedious as a User's License Agreement to read but when I saw that I was impressed. They interviewed him after and asked "what are you going to do now?"

    And he said "I am going to go home and sleep."

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @JMcG, @Clyde, @Anonymous

    I’ve been reading Gladwell’s latest, Bomber Mafia, after having it forced on me by a friend with whom I share an interest in military aviation. So far, it’s the worst book I’ve ever read on the subject. It’s poorly organized, sloppily written, and betrays a total lack of understanding of the dynamics of flight.

    He actually states that a strong enough headwind can cause an airplane to fall from the sky. To think that there are people who hang on his every word is depressing. On the other hand, a 5:15 mile at his age is pretty darn good.

    • Replies: @anon
    @JMcG

    He actually states that a strong enough headwind can cause an airplane to fall from the sky.

    What if the airplane had practiced flying in a headwind for 10,000 hours?

    Replies: @JMcG

    , @Anonymous
    @JMcG


    He actually states that a strong enough headwind can cause an airplane to fall from the sky.
     
    Did he mean to write tailwind?

    Replies: @JMcG

  87. @slumber_j

    I suspect that golf is a white collar suburbanized version of the traditional blood sports that appeal more to hunters than to gatherers.
     
    As I may have pointed out here before, the activity I've participated in that's most similar to golf is driven shooting--in England, in my case. You're with a few people supported by a lot of subalterns (gamekeeper and drivers vs. grounds crew) and it's all very sociable, with the occasional drink built in. You have your loader who is basically your caddy and tells you what to expect, deals with your equipment etc.--all in a very pleasantly (if artificially engineered) bucolic environment.

    When the horn sounds you wait for birds to start coming over the line where each shooter/loader pair is stationed at a predetermined peg, then you all shoot your pheasants and maybe the occasional woodcock or whatever, then you head to the next spot and it starts all over again. After a couple of those you have a snack and a drink, then a couple more bouts of stylized shooting, then lunch, then a final go at the birds.

    The main thing missing that you get in golf is all the betting...plus the lack of actual slaughter I guess.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute, @Steve Sailer, @JMcG

    There’s a lot of betting in a duck blind.

  88. @Steve Sailer
    @njguy73

    Steve Yeager, Bill Russell, and a pitcher, probably. It was the opposite of the Big Red Machine: instead of 4 Hall of Famers (counting Rose), three of them inner circle (Morgan, Bench, and Rose), the 1970s Dodgers were one outer circle Hall of Famer (Don Sutton) and a whole bunch of above average players who were there year after year.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Believe it or not that is Don Sutton in the pic. To Steve’s point pretty amazing that the only HoFer in the pic is the last one people can identify. Sort of like the 70s-80s Bengals in that respect, although doubt there’s a pic where you couldn’t pick out Munoz.

  89. @Steve Sailer
    @slumber_j

    In driven shooting do you stand in one place and they drive the birds to you?

    One difference would be that in golf you wander around this optimized landscape occasionally taking aim at a target, so it's like a cross between driven and regular bird hunting where you wander around looking for birds to shoot.

    I suspect golf evolved in lowland Scotland cities as an urban substitute for the hunting experience. Scottish coastal towns near the mouths of rivers like St. Andrews typically have a bunch of sand dunes (the river deposits sand into the ocean which gets blown back up on the land to form grass covered dunes) that aren't good for building on or growing crops on. I don't know whether you could go bird hunting on them. The thrifty Scots found the best combination of uses was sheep grazing and golf.

    Golf can be dangerous what with the players putting each other's eyes out, but they figured out how to organize the route of the players so the chance of that happening is minimized. A golf course is about a quarter of a square mile and can accommodate 144 players at once. To accommodate one tenth as many hunters you'd need to bring in birds and drive them toward the shooters. Otherwise, the urban hunters would wipe out all the prey within a short period.

    So golf emerged among bourgeois Scots as an alternative to the bloodsports of rural aristocrats.

    Replies: @StAugustine, @slumber_j

    In driven shooting do you stand in one place and they drive the birds to you?

    Yeah, but you do it at several–usually very different–places on whichever aristocrat’s land it is. So the birds come in high, they come in low, they come from that copse over there (but some of them will come around right of it) etc. etc. Hence the need for a loader’s advice on what’s happening in a given spot.

    Here’s some good footage from 1949:

    • Thanks: Desiderius
  90. @StAugustine
    @Steve Sailer

    Of the three shootings, it's more like sporting clays/pigeons - I assume because we americans don't have the population density to pay for professional bird farms just for hunting (fisheries yes). Trap - stand and shoot clays going out from your feet, and skeet, circle and shoot the same trajectory from different angles don't have the walking/golf cart angle. In the setup we had, you walk along a similar park as a golf course and the trajectories are meant to be different species of birds in pairs. You could shoot them one by one or together, the best being if you could get both clays with one load of birdshot.

    Replies: @slumber_j

    Yeah, but what I’m talking about involves actual birds. Lots of them.

  91. @JohnnyWalker123
    @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia

    Typically, you need to do a couple of years in i-banking before you move to hedge funds, VC, or PE.

    Consulting has more modest pay, but the work-life balance is good.

    Watch this funny 4-minute video to understand banking vs consultant.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROlDmux7Tk4

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Both abstracted out of their traditional responsibilities and capabilities.

    • Replies: @JohnnyWalker123
    @Desiderius

    Both professions earn huge fees for themselves, without really contributing much of a value.

    Both professions basically use sleek power-point presentations, cool-sounding words ("synergy," "streamline," "leverage"), and slick salesmen to bamboozle incompetent C-Suite types.

    The Management Consultants charge huge commissions to offer mundane insights that any level-1 manager could've told you. They charge millions of dollars to create a 20-page, graphics-heavy report that a bright college intern could've written.

    As for the investment bankers&private equity analysts, they do a lot of Excel spreadsheet calculations on how your company can increase revenue by X% if you do a merger or acquisition. Then they charge you a big fee to do more Excel calculations and financial valuations that your own internal accounting department could've done for a small fraction of the price. In the process, they throw out some additional business to their contacts in the Management Consultant profession and other contacts from White Shoe law firms (who "advise" on deals). You end up spending a fortune to do something unnecessary that your own internal accounting department could've handled even better (they actually know the intricacies of the company's internal operations) for a much lower cost.

    Here's a very good documentary about Bain Capital, which was run by Mitt Romney. The company made a crazy amount of money for its partners and investors, but it left a trail of economic devastation across America (especially the small towns). In the long term, these financial shenanigans have weakened America's economic competitiveness.

    Watch below.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrYsXnxXhBw

    Replies: @Desiderius

  92. Keith Richards swims in the Caribbean surf for exercise and fitness. He says running is bad on your bones.

  93. @Dave Pinsen
    @Stan d Mute

    I was having lunch in a restaurant's COVID parking lot tent near Teterboro airport last summer and overheard the salesman at the table nearby tell his guests over sangria that he used to be a pilot, before losing an eye to a golf ball. He seemed in pretty good spirits though.

    I had thought I tweeted that story before so I searched for my handle and "golf ball" and didn't find it. I did find this video of Mike Trout crushing a golf ball at a driving range though:

    https://twitter.com/i/events/1234332925379928065

    Replies: @Desiderius

    I know Brodie played on the Seniors and Bench tried. Have any Baseball players made it on the Tour?

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Desiderius

    Maybe Steve knows.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  94. @Stan d Mute
    @slumber_j


    As I may have pointed out here before
     
    If so, I missed it. Golf is the pathetic upper middle class analogue of the slaughter you reference.

    Normal middle class and upper middle class ijits spend years whacking a small white ball with a stick. We revel in the fact that we are permitted to be outdoors ! To enjoy sunshine ! Oh my!

    We’re so fucking fortunate ! We could have been these idiots who are our caddies!

    I’ve spent DECADES in this insane delusion. I am a white man. My wife is white, my kids are white. For the entirety of my life, I have been castigated as an evil oppressor. All I have ever hoped for is that my kids will have the opportunities that I had. That makes me an evil white supremacist oppressor today.

    I’m one of those asshole types who embraces all the epithets. Bring it.

    Replies: @slumber_j

    We’re so fucking fortunate ! We could have been these idiots who are our caddies!

    The class divisions at a driven shoot are pretty stark/traditional, verging on the feudal.

    Or you could think of it as a military structure I suppose: the shooters are the clueless officer class, the loaders and gamekeepers are the NCOs (with the head gamekeeper being their commandant), and the beaters are the soldiers. The last are generally people from the village who are paid a (very) token sum to beat the bushes and flush the birds but do it anyway, because “it’s a good day out,” as they invariably say.

    I guess in this analogy the landowner is the king, and indeed he sometimes actually owns the village. That was the case with the guy who owned this place, where I went on a shoot some years ago: https://www.overburyestate.co.uk/history.html

    • Replies: @Ralph L
    @slumber_j

    the landowner is the king, and indeed he sometimes actually owns the village

    Probably the only way the locals will put up with the noise, if Midsomer Murders is anything to go by. Half the village is usually up in arms about something that often would improve the village, like rich people squandering money.

  95. Running is a hobby for milquetoast, conformist normies who lack the athletic ability to play other sports or have the personalities to do more interesting things.

  96. @Steve Sailer
    @LondonBob

    When The Clash made their best album, London Calling, they took time out in the middle of about 8-9 hours per days in the studio to play 2 hours of soccer daily. Seems like a good lifestyle, one they unfortunately didn't keep up.

    Replies: @Arclight

    A few years ago Iron Maiden was in town and the word was put out to the local suburban dads soccer league to round up some of the better players for a match against the band since that’s what they like to do in their free time to stay in shape while touring. One of my friends took part and said they played for like 2 hours and they were pretty decent considering their age (my friend is in his 40s).

    • Agree: Desiderius
  97. @Clyde
    @theMann


    People run for the same reason people put pineapple on pizza.
    People are morons.
     
    All the comic book based movies that are out these days. This is proof that people are morons. Release the Kraken on them.

    Replies: @theMann

    I resolutely refuse to see any of them, but a one man boycott isn’t hurting Hollywood that much. CoronaFraud has though, so silver lining, I guess.

    • Agree: Clyde
    • Replies: @Clyde
    @theMann

    Silver lining indeed. Hollywood is entering post Covid mode. Thus the inundation of comic book movies is revving up again. Dumbing down the masses some more.

  98. @Steve Sailer
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    I played a lot of racketball in the 1970s and 1980s, but then got tired of it. The court is like a sensory deprivation tank, the opposite of a golf course.

    It has some advantages. It's a pretty easy game to rise to a level of mediocrity. And a good player can hold back pretty easily and let a mediocre player stay in the game.

    Replies: @Stan d Mute, @International Jew, @theMann

    Even though Golf has zero appeal to me personally, I actually like the fact that a lot of people are out there working on a skill that is difficult to do poorly, let alone well.

    Golf has to develop one’s tenacity and hand/eye skills, seems to me a very good thing.

  99. @Steve Sailer
    @PiltdownMan

    The professors at Rice U. in the late 1970s refused to play the trendy game of racquetball, saying that they "just fell in love with squash in Cambridge."

    Looks like squash outlasted racketball.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Desiderius

    Only place I’ve played squash was at decidedly unposh UMIST so maybe less class exclusive in the Commonwealth.

  100. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Frank McGar

    I have an uncle who was a good college athlete (football lineman, but back when they weighed 220 instead of 320), and who then took up hard-core running as an adult. He powered onward through numerous leg problems, but then developed debilitating back trouble, had less-than-successful surgeries, and ended up walking with a cane in his late 50s/60s.

    I'm about 20 years younger than him, so I was around 40 when he really started breaking down. I'd been running quite a bit myself, but seeing what it did to him convinced me to drop it and start doing more reasonable forms of exercise.

    Replies: @Frank McGar

    Yep, that was the way of the old-timers: powering through injuries. And if something was considered healthy or good for you, the mindset was more is better. If you took a day off that was considered slacking, whereas now we know how important recovery is when it comes to physical activity. Long distance running seems to be more of an addiction than a healthy pursuit.

  101. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "I would not be surprised if type of exercise done isn’t just a matter of self-selection based on individual Nature but also has a measurable Nurture effect on other aspects, such as political attitudes. For example, actors who lift weights intensively tend to be to the right of actors who run obsessively."

    Question: For someone such as Donald Trump, who isn't known for exercising at all during his life* (or perhaps should say that he isn't particularly known for doing much exercise during his life), where would someone like that fall on the political spectrum? A sedentary person, no exercising at all. Is that a true political moderate?


    *Technically speaking, golfing per se isn't considered to be exercising, especially when compared to running/jogging, lifting weights. One doesn't have to be in any kind of reasonable shape to golf (e.g. Bill Clinton has golfed for years and hasn't been an exemplar of physical fitness).

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Desiderius

    Cernovich has linked to some studies lately about the importance of the sort of walking one does in a round of golf. Of course the ubiquity of carts now over caddies has cut way down on the number of people getting even that.

    I’ve been doing a lot of two-mile hikes in the woods with my 3-year-olds and there is something to it. Definitely beats the couple months last winter when we were stuck indoors. Woods are like an oxygen tent.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Desiderius

    Xenophon did not play golf, but he did know a thing or two about walking.

    If it was good enough exercise for him, it is more than good enough for the Current Year.

  102. @slumber_j
    @Stan d Mute


    We’re so fucking fortunate ! We could have been these idiots who are our caddies!
     
    The class divisions at a driven shoot are pretty stark/traditional, verging on the feudal.

    Or you could think of it as a military structure I suppose: the shooters are the clueless officer class, the loaders and gamekeepers are the NCOs (with the head gamekeeper being their commandant), and the beaters are the soldiers. The last are generally people from the village who are paid a (very) token sum to beat the bushes and flush the birds but do it anyway, because "it's a good day out," as they invariably say.

    I guess in this analogy the landowner is the king, and indeed he sometimes actually owns the village. That was the case with the guy who owned this place, where I went on a shoot some years ago: https://www.overburyestate.co.uk/history.html

    Replies: @Ralph L

    the landowner is the king, and indeed he sometimes actually owns the village

    Probably the only way the locals will put up with the noise, if Midsomer Murders is anything to go by. Half the village is usually up in arms about something that often would improve the village, like rich people squandering money.

  103. Squash tins are often removable for racquetball. Now, if we can only keep those handball players from hogging court time.

  104. @International Jew

    That makes it a far more inclusive option for client and employee bonding than traditional corporate activities such as golf
     
    No way. When two runners of different ability go out together, one of them is talking while the other one is reduced to panting. Unless they slow way down and then the better runner isn't getting a workout.

    Whereas golfers of vastly different skill levels can play together pretty comfortably (observing a stroke limit of course).

    I'll allow that mismatched running partners isn't quite as bad as mismatched boxing partners.


    — an important consideration as the finance industry comes under increasing pressure to improve its gender diversity.
     
    Yeah, nothing reinforces the egalitarian illusion like the girls falling off the back of the pack.

    Replies: @ic1000

    > That makes [running] a far more inclusive option for client and employee bonding than traditional corporate activities such as golf

    This bonding technique excludes the overweight, arthritis sufferers, pretty much everybody in poor health. Even to FT reporter Laura Noonan, this must be obvious.

    But Noonan isn’t using inclusive to mean “not excluding any of the parties or groups involved in something.” The word is a synonym for good.

    After all, her kind of people like running, a lot. So how could it not be inclusive?

    Going back to the “Sailer’s catchiest phrases” post of a few weeks past, his coining (popularization?) of “midwit” makes it easy to understand Noonan’s writings.

    • Replies: @anon
    @ic1000

    Going back to the “Sailer’s catchiest phrases” post of a few weeks past, his coining (popularization?) of “midwit” makes it easy to understand Noonan’s writings.

    Popularization, I believe Vox Day can take credit for that word.

    When Noonan had her orgasmic moment over the inauguration of Obama that was enough for me. Schoolgirl crushes are not a good look for a femme over 40.

  105. Last year I had occasion to attend a briefing on market strategy given at the office of my investment adviser by one of these Masters of the Universe. Afterwards he mentioned that when he noticed he was gaining weight his approach to getting back into shape was to start competing in these:
    https://usaultratri.com/
    These are people with fanatically focused personalities. My approach to gaining weight would have been to cut down a little on fried foods.
    Ironically, he couldn’t stay long because that was the day the markets started the COVID Collapse and he had to catch the next red-eye back to New York.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @Alfa158

    "investment adviser by one of these Masters of the Universe"

    This jamoke did triathlon(s) (allegedly) for bragging rights and ego. For bragging within his cohort and to get the associated/orbiting 27-32 something adventuress babes about town/NYC. Extreme exercise when young...Do this enough and you will suffer later on in life. This is like women who like to get too much sun. They are wrinkly when older. Of course a great natural sun tan looks great on them. Guys love it. But the price gets paid when these women hit 40-45-50. If fair skin enough, today's female obsessive sunbathers are future skin cancer candidates.

  106. @JohnnyWalker123
    I can confirm that long-distance sports are popular on Wall Street. Jogging, cycling, rowing.

    Even if you don't participate in these sports regularly, you'll often be called on to participate for the purposes of charity.

    Replies: @anon, @Clyde

    Even if you don’t participate in these sports regularly, you’ll often be called on to participate for the purposes of charity.

    Exactly.

  107. @Reg Cæsar
    @Clyde

    Bet he has no problem using a Japanese toilet!



    https://resources.matcha-jp.com/archive_files/jp/2015/09/2d24cbd7a75562246941620b28f09007-849x1024.jpg

    Replies: @Clyde

    Been there done this. You must visit Japan and do it (squat) too. Unless time and money is a factor. Taiwan too. Maybe Shenzhen

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Clyde

    There's an argument that having used squat toilets for much of their lives is what's behind (sorry) the often quite remarkable spryness of old Chinese people.

    Replies: @Clyde

  108. @JMcG
    @Morton's toes

    I’ve been reading Gladwell’s latest, Bomber Mafia, after having it forced on me by a friend with whom I share an interest in military aviation. So far, it’s the worst book I’ve ever read on the subject. It’s poorly organized, sloppily written, and betrays a total lack of understanding of the dynamics of flight.

    He actually states that a strong enough headwind can cause an airplane to fall from the sky. To think that there are people who hang on his every word is depressing. On the other hand, a 5:15 mile at his age is pretty darn good.

    Replies: @anon, @Anonymous

    He actually states that a strong enough headwind can cause an airplane to fall from the sky.

    What if the airplane had practiced flying in a headwind for 10,000 hours?

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @anon

    Well struck, sir.

  109. @Desiderius
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Cernovich has linked to some studies lately about the importance of the sort of walking one does in a round of golf. Of course the ubiquity of carts now over caddies has cut way down on the number of people getting even that.

    I’ve been doing a lot of two-mile hikes in the woods with my 3-year-olds and there is something to it. Definitely beats the couple months last winter when we were stuck indoors. Woods are like an oxygen tent.

    Replies: @anon

    Xenophon did not play golf, but he did know a thing or two about walking.

    If it was good enough exercise for him, it is more than good enough for the Current Year.

  110. anon[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @ic1000
    @International Jew

    > That makes [running] a far more inclusive option for client and employee bonding than traditional corporate activities such as golf

    This bonding technique excludes the overweight, arthritis sufferers, pretty much everybody in poor health. Even to FT reporter Laura Noonan, this must be obvious.

    But Noonan isn't using inclusive to mean "not excluding any of the parties or groups involved in something." The word is a synonym for good.

    After all, her kind of people like running, a lot. So how could it not be inclusive?

    Going back to the "Sailer's catchiest phrases" post of a few weeks past, his coining (popularization?) of "midwit" makes it easy to understand Noonan's writings.

    Replies: @anon

    Going back to the “Sailer’s catchiest phrases” post of a few weeks past, his coining (popularization?) of “midwit” makes it easy to understand Noonan’s writings.

    Popularization, I believe Vox Day can take credit for that word.

    When Noonan had her orgasmic moment over the inauguration of Obama that was enough for me. Schoolgirl crushes are not a good look for a femme over 40.

    • Thanks: ic1000
  111. @Alfa158
    Last year I had occasion to attend a briefing on market strategy given at the office of my investment adviser by one of these Masters of the Universe. Afterwards he mentioned that when he noticed he was gaining weight his approach to getting back into shape was to start competing in these:
    https://usaultratri.com/
    These are people with fanatically focused personalities. My approach to gaining weight would have been to cut down a little on fried foods.
    Ironically, he couldn’t stay long because that was the day the markets started the COVID Collapse and he had to catch the next red-eye back to New York.

    Replies: @Clyde

    “investment adviser by one of these Masters of the Universe”

    This jamoke did triathlon(s) (allegedly) for bragging rights and ego. For bragging within his cohort and to get the associated/orbiting 27-32 something adventuress babes about town/NYC. Extreme exercise when young…Do this enough and you will suffer later on in life. This is like women who like to get too much sun. They are wrinkly when older. Of course a great natural sun tan looks great on them. Guys love it. But the price gets paid when these women hit 40-45-50. If fair skin enough, today’s female obsessive sunbathers are future skin cancer candidates.

  112. @Anon
    No, it's just that running is an OCD sport. Even weightlifting is less monotonous. Normal people get bored running - but not investment bankers, who select for OCD and continually reinforce it. Eve Smith at Naked Capitalism is crazy but not quite crazy enough for investment banking, so she has a lot of horror stories. People working through life-threatening illnesses and crap like that. (Eve's a weightlifter.) Investment banking is profoundly sick and culty. All these pukes will have artificial knees and hips before they retire - even assuming they can conquer their egoistic bean-counting obsession and stop working.

    Replies: @Alden

    I agree about the damage done to bones ligaments and muscles by running. I was hit by a car driven by someone who looked straight from the jungles of Central America. A grown adult man in his thirties but so short he could barely be seen over the steering wheel. I’m more or less a bionic woman from waist to knees.

    My orthopedic surgeon is a sports ortho guy. It’s titled a Sports Clinic. You should see us patients. Me and one other old person and the rest all young men from about 15 to 35. A very few football injuries; the rest are all running injuries. And orthopedic problems only get worse with age. There’s a few professional athletes. But mostly young adult joggers.

    I took anatomy in college. Because most anatomy students are nursing or pre med, there’s a lot of medical information in anatomy. Ballet and running are really very bad for bones ligaments tendons and muscles. Especially on hard surfaces. It’s another triumph of propaganda by the expensive athletic show companies.

    When jogging first became popular, orthopedic surgeons advised against it. Then they realized how much money could be made from treating teen and young adult jogging injuries. Why wait till the patients are 60 when jogging injures them at 20. And 50 years of billing.

  113. I ran for forty years and really enjoyed it. Best time: 58 min 27 sec for 10 miles. So not bad but not stunning. But I have just had my left knee replaced. It was destroyed by all that road running and by the use of the modern style of running shoes with big bouncy heels. If I had a time machine my advice to my 19-year-old self would be: start off slowly, run on your toes instead of your heels, wear thin shoes so that you are as close to barefoot running as you can be, and get off the road and don’t worry about slower times on grass and mud. Book recommendation: Born to Run by Christopher MacDougall. And one more thing I’d tell myself: cut down on the booze and get on a low carb diet. I ran all those miles with a small but noticeable beer gut. Now that it’s all over I’ve gone low-carb and lost weight, and I wish I’d done it around 1976, not last year.

    • Thanks: Clyde
    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Graham

    Thanks for this.

    I ran for exercise for about a decade, from my early 30s to early 40s. Although I'm a long-term iSteve regular, I must also be something of a soyboy, because I enjoyed it as well. I was not fast, but got up to the point where I could run a half-marathon at a not-embarassing time, without too much stress.

    As I mentioned above, I quit because I saw my uncle get pretty much wrecked by too much running, and I had nagging injuries accumulating in my own body as well. I started getting sore knees, although I'd never had any kind of knee problem before. I had plantar fasciitis, I had off-and-on lower back trouble -- it was adding up.

    Good luck with your new knee.

    , @Clyde
    @Graham

    Sage advice!


    Book recommendation: Born to Run by Christopher MacDougall.
     
    Read it five years ago. Excelllent book!
  114. Clyde — You’re 100% correct regarding leg (quadriceps mainly) training . High reps or even outright aerobic activity leg workouts are known to be great for building leg mass . Cyclists and soccer players being prime examples . The same is not true regarding high rep / aerobic training for the upper body . If it were landscapers or farm workers would be massive from that kind of work . Of course , it does give people a certain kind of fitness aka Country Strength .

    • Thanks: Clyde
  115. @Desiderius
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Both abstracted out of their traditional responsibilities and capabilities.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123

    Both professions earn huge fees for themselves, without really contributing much of a value.

    Both professions basically use sleek power-point presentations, cool-sounding words (“synergy,” “streamline,” “leverage”), and slick salesmen to bamboozle incompetent C-Suite types.

    The Management Consultants charge huge commissions to offer mundane insights that any level-1 manager could’ve told you. They charge millions of dollars to create a 20-page, graphics-heavy report that a bright college intern could’ve written.

    As for the investment bankers&private equity analysts, they do a lot of Excel spreadsheet calculations on how your company can increase revenue by X% if you do a merger or acquisition. Then they charge you a big fee to do more Excel calculations and financial valuations that your own internal accounting department could’ve done for a small fraction of the price. In the process, they throw out some additional business to their contacts in the Management Consultant profession and other contacts from White Shoe law firms (who “advise” on deals). You end up spending a fortune to do something unnecessary that your own internal accounting department could’ve handled even better (they actually know the intricacies of the company’s internal operations) for a much lower cost.

    Here’s a very good documentary about Bain Capital, which was run by Mitt Romney. The company made a crazy amount of money for its partners and investors, but it left a trail of economic devastation across America (especially the small towns). In the long term, these financial shenanigans have weakened America’s economic competitiveness.

    Watch below.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Counsel gets the authority, the consultant gets the blame, accounting gets the bill, and the manager gets the health insurance for his family.

  116. The takeaway from this entire topic is this.

    Lift.
    Avoid long-distance cardio.

  117. @Clyde
    @Michael S

    I will take this under advisement due to you making very intelligent posts including no-vaxxx. Are you routinely doing full depth squats with weight?

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    Done them since I was a teenager. My knees are doing great four decades later.

    • Thanks: Morton's toes
  118. @theMann
    People run for the same reason people put pineapple on pizza.

    People are morons.

    Replies: @Clyde, @JohnnyWalker123

    Yeah. I never understood the pineapple thing either.

    Oh well.

  119. @anon
    @JMcG

    He actually states that a strong enough headwind can cause an airplane to fall from the sky.

    What if the airplane had practiced flying in a headwind for 10,000 hours?

    Replies: @JMcG

    Well struck, sir.

  120. Aside from the banker angle for a moment, you might notice that the media loves it when a disabled or disadvantaged person — especially a cancer survivor — fixates on marathon running, to prove something to themselves or to others. It’s very easy and facile symbolism for the reporter.

    Having profiled many highly accomplished people overcoming various challenges, I’ve tried to sidestep this easy route and focus on more substantive life goals these people are grinding away at.

  121. Ok, one more music vid to go with all the rest.

    80’s haircut / synth band goodness!

  122. @theMann
    @Clyde

    I resolutely refuse to see any of them, but a one man boycott isn't hurting Hollywood that much. CoronaFraud has though, so silver lining, I guess.

    Replies: @Clyde

    Silver lining indeed. Hollywood is entering post Covid mode. Thus the inundation of comic book movies is revving up again. Dumbing down the masses some more.

  123. @JohnnyWalker123
    I can confirm that long-distance sports are popular on Wall Street. Jogging, cycling, rowing.

    Even if you don't participate in these sports regularly, you'll often be called on to participate for the purposes of charity.

    Replies: @anon, @Clyde

    I can confirm that long-distance sports are popular on Wall Street. Jogging, cycling, rowing.

    Aerobic sports to oxygenate their brains. Should clear their minds to make better trades. I’ll bet some traders, Wall Street and elsewhere, have bottles of oxygen on the premises. To inhale pure oxygen when they feel it is needed. Sports teams do, to revive tuckered out players. What would really do them (Wall Street etc.) right would be a few hyperbaric chambers on premises. I have seen what hyperbaric can do.

  124. @Morton's toes
    @Cortes


    Runners, as opposed to mere recreational joggers, like to demonstrate how much they suffer for their virtue.
     
    My exercise guru is Juan Carlos Santana. He is a retired power lifter with bad knees, bad hips, and one bad shoulder and he refers to the dirty secret of athletic training. Generally it subtracts from longevity and it subtracts a large amount from quality of life.

    His program is loose and variable and explicitly pain free. If it hurts, stop. Do something else. His book has hundreds of different exercise variations so don't quit working out. Just quit punishing your knee or your wrist or whatever.

    https://www.amazon.com/Functional-Training-Juan-Carlos-Santana/dp/1450414826

    The Mark's Daily Apple guy was a professional triathlete and he says his life changed immensely for the better when he quit endurance training for good many years ago. The guy who ran the first marathon 25 centuries ago dropped dead when he finished.

    On the other hand Malcom Gladwell did 5:15 mile in a celebrity track meet a couple months ago. I have always found Gladwell's popular writing tedious as a User's License Agreement to read but when I saw that I was impressed. They interviewed him after and asked "what are you going to do now?"

    And he said "I am going to go home and sleep."

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @JMcG, @Clyde, @Anonymous

    My exercise guru is Juan Carlos Santana. He is a retired power lifter with bad knees, bad hips, and one bad shoulder and he refers to the dirty secret of athletic training. Generally it subtracts from longevity and it subtracts a large amount from quality of life.

    His program is loose and variable and explicitly pain free. If it hurts, stop. Do something else. His book has hundreds of different exercise variations so don’t quit working out. Just quit punishing your knee or your wrist or whatever.

    Thanks for posting! I will be taking a look at what your guru has to say. “No pain, no gain” can be true sometimes, but has left many injured and seeing Docs for OPs. Arthroscopic surgery. Before any surgery (if you want to avoid it) see your local prolotherapist to get prolo injections into the joint and/or platelet rich plasma injections. There is a very smart world out there of smart Docs in this line of orthopedics. I have gotten prolo into a knee but not the elite version which is platelet rich plasma. This is cutting edge medicine, not for plebs and the surgery first crowd.

    A Platelet Rich Plasma Knee Doctor will take a small sample of the patient’s blood and then spin it down to obtain the growth factors and platelets. Then, the mixture will be injected into the problem area, and when the platelets are present, stem cells will be stimulated to come to the area and rebuild the tissues.
    PRP For Knees – Platelet Rich Plasma Injections for Knees
    http://www.prporthopedicdoctors.com/prp-for-the-knees/

  125. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Desiderius

    Both professions earn huge fees for themselves, without really contributing much of a value.

    Both professions basically use sleek power-point presentations, cool-sounding words ("synergy," "streamline," "leverage"), and slick salesmen to bamboozle incompetent C-Suite types.

    The Management Consultants charge huge commissions to offer mundane insights that any level-1 manager could've told you. They charge millions of dollars to create a 20-page, graphics-heavy report that a bright college intern could've written.

    As for the investment bankers&private equity analysts, they do a lot of Excel spreadsheet calculations on how your company can increase revenue by X% if you do a merger or acquisition. Then they charge you a big fee to do more Excel calculations and financial valuations that your own internal accounting department could've done for a small fraction of the price. In the process, they throw out some additional business to their contacts in the Management Consultant profession and other contacts from White Shoe law firms (who "advise" on deals). You end up spending a fortune to do something unnecessary that your own internal accounting department could've handled even better (they actually know the intricacies of the company's internal operations) for a much lower cost.

    Here's a very good documentary about Bain Capital, which was run by Mitt Romney. The company made a crazy amount of money for its partners and investors, but it left a trail of economic devastation across America (especially the small towns). In the long term, these financial shenanigans have weakened America's economic competitiveness.

    Watch below.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrYsXnxXhBw

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Counsel gets the authority, the consultant gets the blame, accounting gets the bill, and the manager gets the health insurance for his family.

  126. @Clyde
    @Reg Cæsar

    Been there done this. You must visit Japan and do it (squat) too. Unless time and money is a factor. Taiwan too. Maybe Shenzhen

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    There’s an argument that having used squat toilets for much of their lives is what’s behind (sorry) the often quite remarkable spryness of old Chinese people.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @The Last Real Calvinist


    There’s an argument that having used squat toilets for much of their lives is what’s behind (sorry) the often quite remarkable spryness of old Chinese people.
     
    I have done that squat a few times on a standard American toilet to test it out. I hear that certain Tai-Chi schools have a toilet squat as one of their moves. ( a definite maybe)
  127. @Graham
    I ran for forty years and really enjoyed it. Best time: 58 min 27 sec for 10 miles. So not bad but not stunning. But I have just had my left knee replaced. It was destroyed by all that road running and by the use of the modern style of running shoes with big bouncy heels. If I had a time machine my advice to my 19-year-old self would be: start off slowly, run on your toes instead of your heels, wear thin shoes so that you are as close to barefoot running as you can be, and get off the road and don't worry about slower times on grass and mud. Book recommendation: Born to Run by Christopher MacDougall. And one more thing I'd tell myself: cut down on the booze and get on a low carb diet. I ran all those miles with a small but noticeable beer gut. Now that it's all over I've gone low-carb and lost weight, and I wish I'd done it around 1976, not last year.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist, @Clyde

    Thanks for this.

    I ran for exercise for about a decade, from my early 30s to early 40s. Although I’m a long-term iSteve regular, I must also be something of a soyboy, because I enjoyed it as well. I was not fast, but got up to the point where I could run a half-marathon at a not-embarassing time, without too much stress.

    As I mentioned above, I quit because I saw my uncle get pretty much wrecked by too much running, and I had nagging injuries accumulating in my own body as well. I started getting sore knees, although I’d never had any kind of knee problem before. I had plantar fasciitis, I had off-and-on lower back trouble — it was adding up.

    Good luck with your new knee.

  128. @Desiderius
    @Dave Pinsen

    I know Brodie played on the Seniors and Bench tried. Have any Baseball players made it on the Tour?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    Maybe Steve knows.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Dave Pinsen

    He doesn't want to encourage me. He's sort of aware of my comments like the respectable media is sort of aware of Steve.

    Rhoden was always winning that celebrity thing but did he ever try to go on Tour?

  129. @Dave Pinsen
    @Desiderius

    Maybe Steve knows.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    He doesn’t want to encourage me. He’s sort of aware of my comments like the respectable media is sort of aware of Steve.

    Rhoden was always winning that celebrity thing but did he ever try to go on Tour?

  130. @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia
    As a person who spent quite a few years in the finance/brokerage business, Steve's distinction about the two categories of "bankers" is spot on.

    Today's top business school grad wants to go into either hedge funds, venture capital, or consulting. Consulting has become more "humane" (working associates to the bone was common a decade or so ago, now "work/life balance" is the mantra, so they can get a lot females in the door). Hedge fund and VC work promise untold riches for those who can cut it.

    Investment banking has lost a lot of its cache. Go to work fresh out of B-school for Goldman, or JP Morgan, or Barclays, and you might get walking papers in the next downturn.

    Institutional trading, in the past another entre into a place like Goldman, is no longer an option for most B-School grads, unless you also come equipped with a PhD in applied math or physics.

    The standing joke in the finance business goes like this: what was the most important date in the last 30 years in finance?

    Some answer the repeal of Glass Steagall, or high speed fiber optic cables, or some such.

    No, the answer is--when the Congress declined to fund the next gen Large Hadron Collider in Texas and it went to Cern. It was going to be a full employment opportunity for an entire generation of American physicists. Instead, they all went to Wall Street, and that's how we got algorithmic trading, which drives almost all of the daily market moves today.

    Replies: @JohnnyWalker123, @Desiderius

    No, the answer is–when the Congress declined to fund the next gen Large Hadron Collider in Texas and it went to Cern. It was going to be a full employment opportunity for an entire generation of American physicists. Instead, they all went to Wall Street, and that’s how we got algorithmic trading, which drives almost all of the daily market moves today.

    That’s an unconventional justification for sending Whitey to Mars – to keep him from futzing up the economy/society.

  131. This whole topic is much more in the “spit balling” quadrant than usual, so with that in mind:

    1. For why anyone might be interested in running – running burns fat – no, seriously – it really burns fat, “blah blah blah, carbs”, … no: running burns fat, “blah blah blah, not me my glands, my liver”, … no: running burns fat, “blah blah blah, no not me I’ve been running forever and I don’t loose any weight”, … no: I call BS – you aren’t running you are at best “speed walking” in the outward form of a light jog, if you were running, you would burn fat – anyway – there are people who are tuned to the need to be low in fat and the better the tuning, say because of professional exposure, the higher running will rise on the list

    2. I doubt very much running has any effect on one’s politics one way or another – although it is likely to impose a hard-nosed view of the world that’s likely to make one sensitive to hearing “Muh, Murica!” “Muh, capitalism” “uhg, Marxism Venezuela Socialism bad bad bad grunt psssss” from people who don’t know sh*t about economics or money – and without feeling the need to say a corrective word, move about the world really understanding economics and really making money

    3. On the other hand – hard time in the gym – may lend itself to a more conservative view of the world – strength training may be politically active even if running is politically neutral – I really don’t know, just spit-balling it

  132. “Walking is the best possible exercise. Habituate yourself to walk very far.”
    -Thomas Jefferson

    And he lived to be 84.

  133. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Clyde

    There's an argument that having used squat toilets for much of their lives is what's behind (sorry) the often quite remarkable spryness of old Chinese people.

    Replies: @Clyde

    There’s an argument that having used squat toilets for much of their lives is what’s behind (sorry) the often quite remarkable spryness of old Chinese people.

    I have done that squat a few times on a standard American toilet to test it out. I hear that certain Tai-Chi schools have a toilet squat as one of their moves. ( a definite maybe)

  134. @Cortes
    Runners, as opposed to mere recreational joggers, like to demonstrate how much they suffer for their virtue. To see the agonising grimaces you’d think they were being pursued through the city by the hounds of Dracula. In another context they’d be flagellants. All playacting, of course, like their brethren on pushbikes, all kidding themselves on they could’ve been competing in the Olympics or Tour de France.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @LondonBob, @Ragno

    Runners, as opposed to mere recreational joggers, like to demonstrate how much they suffer for their virtue.

    There’s a payoff for all that suffering, though – taking it alllllll out on Whitey. They didn’t realize it would come down to that 30+ years ago, when the running fad became a full-on craze, of course (then again, back then Biden was making tough-on-crime faces and laughing louder than anyone in Congress at Strom Thurmond’s jokes; whoever said politics is the art of the possible didn’t know the half of it).

    Now, however, there can be no doubt, particularly as they’re getting all their cues directly from the White House. The surface idea – completely dismantle America so thoroughly and destructively that it can never be put back together – is principally the bone they’re throwing the blacks and the rich-kid Bolshie kids who’ll be providing the SA/Red Terror mob enforcement of said dismantling. As for the bankers and industrialists and triply-parenthesized media barons truly engineering the calamity dead ahead of us , it’s the underlying purpose – here is our last best chance to wet our beaks until we can’t swallow another drop – providing all the incentive to erase White America – forever.

  135. @Graham
    I ran for forty years and really enjoyed it. Best time: 58 min 27 sec for 10 miles. So not bad but not stunning. But I have just had my left knee replaced. It was destroyed by all that road running and by the use of the modern style of running shoes with big bouncy heels. If I had a time machine my advice to my 19-year-old self would be: start off slowly, run on your toes instead of your heels, wear thin shoes so that you are as close to barefoot running as you can be, and get off the road and don't worry about slower times on grass and mud. Book recommendation: Born to Run by Christopher MacDougall. And one more thing I'd tell myself: cut down on the booze and get on a low carb diet. I ran all those miles with a small but noticeable beer gut. Now that it's all over I've gone low-carb and lost weight, and I wish I'd done it around 1976, not last year.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist, @Clyde

    Sage advice!

    Book recommendation: Born to Run by Christopher MacDougall.

    Read it five years ago. Excelllent book!

  136. Anonymous[706] • Disclaimer says:
    @Morton's toes
    @Cortes


    Runners, as opposed to mere recreational joggers, like to demonstrate how much they suffer for their virtue.
     
    My exercise guru is Juan Carlos Santana. He is a retired power lifter with bad knees, bad hips, and one bad shoulder and he refers to the dirty secret of athletic training. Generally it subtracts from longevity and it subtracts a large amount from quality of life.

    His program is loose and variable and explicitly pain free. If it hurts, stop. Do something else. His book has hundreds of different exercise variations so don't quit working out. Just quit punishing your knee or your wrist or whatever.

    https://www.amazon.com/Functional-Training-Juan-Carlos-Santana/dp/1450414826

    The Mark's Daily Apple guy was a professional triathlete and he says his life changed immensely for the better when he quit endurance training for good many years ago. The guy who ran the first marathon 25 centuries ago dropped dead when he finished.

    On the other hand Malcom Gladwell did 5:15 mile in a celebrity track meet a couple months ago. I have always found Gladwell's popular writing tedious as a User's License Agreement to read but when I saw that I was impressed. They interviewed him after and asked "what are you going to do now?"

    And he said "I am going to go home and sleep."

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @JMcG, @Clyde, @Anonymous

    Nobody is surprised when guys who do hard manual labor as young men end up with a bunch of joint and back problems in middle age. Somehow everybody is surprised that the same happens to guys who do hard physical exercise.

  137. Anonymous[175] • Disclaimer says:
    @JMcG
    @Morton's toes

    I’ve been reading Gladwell’s latest, Bomber Mafia, after having it forced on me by a friend with whom I share an interest in military aviation. So far, it’s the worst book I’ve ever read on the subject. It’s poorly organized, sloppily written, and betrays a total lack of understanding of the dynamics of flight.

    He actually states that a strong enough headwind can cause an airplane to fall from the sky. To think that there are people who hang on his every word is depressing. On the other hand, a 5:15 mile at his age is pretty darn good.

    Replies: @anon, @Anonymous

    He actually states that a strong enough headwind can cause an airplane to fall from the sky.

    Did he mean to write tailwind?

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Anonymous

    No, he must have read somewhere that the effects of the jet stream were first observed by the early B29 missions to Japan, which were flown at high altitude. He mentions that, in some cases, ground speed of some airplanes were measured at 3 mph. He later makes the statement that airplanes would fall from the sky at such low speeds.
    Regardless, tailwind or headwind, airplanes are suspended in the airmass in which they are flying. Winds have no effect on the aerodynamic performance of an airplane, other than very specific circumstances e.g. wind shear on takeoff or landing. When an author makes such a fundamental error on something so central to his work, it really takes away from his entire argument.

  138. anonymous[590] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve: Weights or Running probably has something to do with your body type. Tall lean people seem like they would have the advantage when it comes to running. Most big muscular guys that play in the NFL probably are not going to try out for the track team.

  139. @Anonymous
    @JMcG


    He actually states that a strong enough headwind can cause an airplane to fall from the sky.
     
    Did he mean to write tailwind?

    Replies: @JMcG

    No, he must have read somewhere that the effects of the jet stream were first observed by the early B29 missions to Japan, which were flown at high altitude. He mentions that, in some cases, ground speed of some airplanes were measured at 3 mph. He later makes the statement that airplanes would fall from the sky at such low speeds.
    Regardless, tailwind or headwind, airplanes are suspended in the airmass in which they are flying. Winds have no effect on the aerodynamic performance of an airplane, other than very specific circumstances e.g. wind shear on takeoff or landing. When an author makes such a fundamental error on something so central to his work, it really takes away from his entire argument.

  140. I started distance running about 10 years ago and, for a period of four years, was running four half marathons a year. I hated running as a kid because it always made me wheeze but as an adult it wasn’t an issue after I learned about athletic-induced asthma and used an inhaler. After awhile my lungs got stronger and I didn’t need it anymore. I find running very relaxing – there is something about repetitive motion while listening to music and letting your mind wander that is meditative – and the runner’s high is real and addictive. I find the same comfort in repetitive motion on a spin bike.

    Distance running is very social and friendly – you’ll find groups of friends training and traveling to the same races year after year. I’ve made some good friends I met through running. Since I live near Disneyland, I ran a number of the Disney races, where we’d run the streets around Anaheim and through the parks and people run in (often elaborate) costumes. They were a lot of fun. It also appeals to the types who like data and are a bit OCD – I enjoyed ticking off the boxes on my training matrix, the goal of training for a race, and tracking my Garmin GPS data. I think bankers run because they’re smart and probably on/close to the spectrum a bit and find repetitive motion soothing and probably get into analyzing their Garmin and HRM data. All the people I met at the distance races were well off – traveling to far flung races isn’t cheap – college educated, had upper middle class jobs, and clean-cut types. Marathon training is a serious time commitment but training for a half is pretty easy. I tapered off my after my feet started breaking down and I battled one injury after another and now that I have two torn meniscus’s (from a bad personal trainer training a 50-something like a 20-something with way too many squats and lunges) I stick to spinning and golf these days.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @AnonAnon

    Marathons are pretty ridiculous. Shorter races can be a fine hobby.

  141. @AnonAnon
    I started distance running about 10 years ago and, for a period of four years, was running four half marathons a year. I hated running as a kid because it always made me wheeze but as an adult it wasn’t an issue after I learned about athletic-induced asthma and used an inhaler. After awhile my lungs got stronger and I didn’t need it anymore. I find running very relaxing - there is something about repetitive motion while listening to music and letting your mind wander that is meditative - and the runner’s high is real and addictive. I find the same comfort in repetitive motion on a spin bike.

    Distance running is very social and friendly - you’ll find groups of friends training and traveling to the same races year after year. I’ve made some good friends I met through running. Since I live near Disneyland, I ran a number of the Disney races, where we’d run the streets around Anaheim and through the parks and people run in (often elaborate) costumes. They were a lot of fun. It also appeals to the types who like data and are a bit OCD - I enjoyed ticking off the boxes on my training matrix, the goal of training for a race, and tracking my Garmin GPS data. I think bankers run because they’re smart and probably on/close to the spectrum a bit and find repetitive motion soothing and probably get into analyzing their Garmin and HRM data. All the people I met at the distance races were well off - traveling to far flung races isn’t cheap - college educated, had upper middle class jobs, and clean-cut types. Marathon training is a serious time commitment but training for a half is pretty easy. I tapered off my after my feet started breaking down and I battled one injury after another and now that I have two torn meniscus’s (from a bad personal trainer training a 50-something like a 20-something with way too many squats and lunges) I stick to spinning and golf these days.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Marathons are pretty ridiculous. Shorter races can be a fine hobby.

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