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From the New York Times news section:

A Gay N.F.L. Player Broke a Barrier. Will Others Follow?

The number of publicly out L.G.B.T.Q. athletes in men’s biggest pro leagues lags far behind that in women’s sports. Will Carl Nassib’s announcement change that?

By Emmanuel Morgan
June 22, 2021

… In locker rooms, on fields and on courts, male athletes are taught to embrace heteronormative standards of masculinity.

Or maybe most sports, other than figure skating, water ballet, and a few others, developed as tests of heteronormative standards of masculinity? That would also explain why there are so many more lesbians in most sports than there are gay males.

I pointed this out 27 years ago in “Why Lesbians Aren’t Gay.”

We can test whether there really are a lot of gay male jocks but they are just to oppressed to come out of the closet by looking at death rates from AIDS during the 1980s-90s. Two or three NFL player died of AIDS, two MLB players (one gay, one junkie), one NHL player, Magic Johnson got first crack at the new drugs and survived, and no golfers.

In contrast, both male figure skating gold medalists in the 1970s died of AIDS, the top American diver ever survived it, and a whole bunch of the most famous dancers (Rudolf Nureyev, Alvin Ailey, Robert Joffrey, and Michael “Chorus Line” Bennett) died from it.

Interestingly, rock stars were not hard hit: after Freddie Mercury, the most famous victim was … who? The guy in the B-52s? Rock stars tend to be the not terribly masculine pretty boys who figure out it’s a good way to get girls.

“I think it’s men and the machismo culture that pro sports are played, in particular,” that has inhibited men who identify as gay, bisexual, or queer from coming out, said Richard Lapchick, the director of the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport.

Maybe it inhibited gays not only from coming out but also from going into sports?

In Major League Baseball, Glenn Burke, an outfielder who spent four seasons with the Los Angeles Dodgers and the Oakland Athletics in the 1970s, is known as the first player in major league history to come out to his teammates during his career. He came out publicly in 1982, three years after his last major league game. Burke, who died of AIDS complications in 1995, was supported by some teammates but was largely met with discrimination.

Glenn Burke was especially discriminated against by opposing pitchers who kept getting him to swing at pitches out of the strike zone. I remember him from the 1977-78 Dodgers when he was The Rallykiller. He was the ultimate Looked Good in a Uniform player. Dodger coach Jim Gilliam thought he’d be the next Willie Mays but he never developed really any major league skills.

… Men’s pro teams in America have lagged behind women’s, where L.G.B.T.Q. stars in team and individual sports have publicly identified themselves and still been celebrated. W.N.B.A. stars Diana Taurasi, Brittney Griner and Elena Delle Donne are among the league’s current players who have come out as lesbian and Layshia Clarendon, who openly identifies as transgender and nonbinary, in January became the league’s first player to have a top surgery while active.

Nothing reflects the health of sports than self-mutilation.

… In the Ultimate Fighting Championship, the highest-caliber mixed martial arts promotion, the best female fighter of all time, Amanda Nunes, is an out lesbian.

Wow. What were the odds of that?

 
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  1. Interestingly, rock stars were not hard hit: after Freddie Mercury, the most famous victim was … who?

    Tom Fogerty. But like Arthur Ashe, he contracted it via blood transfusion.

    Richard Lapchick, the director of the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport.

    A dick-lap-chick certainly sounds diverse. Give him that much.

    Will Carl Nassib’s announcement change that?

    That name sounds a bit Sotadic, don’tcha think?

    Carl Nassib = Class in bra. Lab scan, sir!

    • Replies: @G. Poulin
    @Reg Cæsar

    That was Tom Fogerty's official story, but I have my doubts.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Whataboutery2020
    @Reg Cæsar


    Tom Fogerty. But like Arthur Ashe, he contracted it via blood transfusion.

     

    As per Brass Eye https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3xUjw2BCYE&ab_channel=jorgeschrute contracting it via blood transfusion is "good Aids", not to be confused with "bad Aids", contracted via drugs or man-fun.
  2. Interestingly, rock stars were not hard hit: after Freddie Mercury, the most famous victim was … who? The guy in the B-52s? Rock stars tend to be the not terribly masculine pretty boys who figure out it’s a good way to get girls.

    Dan Hartman.

    Also, one of the musicians in Level 42.

    So – yeah – not that famous.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Mr. Anon

    We don't have a name for the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones, but highly heterosexual and drives young women wild.

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Abe, @Hapalong Cassidy, @peterike, @Rockford Tyson, @Rex Little

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Mr. Anon

    Dan Hartman wrote a perfect, Motown-style pop song for the soundtrack of Streets of Fire.

    https://youtu.be/621Nk3Ubz4A

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @duncsbaby

    , @Feryl
    @Mr. Anon

    Robbin Crosby of Ratt died of AIDS. Definitely IV drug related, seeing as how Crosby was by all accounts straight. It is interesting that in light of how many rock stars were blitzed on drugs in the 70's-90's, just how few ended up with AIDS. You must really have to be a hardcore degenerate IV drug user to get AIDS.

  3. OT – if you think at least the NHL isn’t woke, think again. They came out in support of HR1, the “For the People Act”, i.e. the “We’re gonna steal every election from here-on-in Act”.

  4. Anonymous[316] • Disclaimer says:

    NFL players are less likely to be arrested than the general US population — using Steve’s logic we would never assume the NFL has lots of blacks.

    The fact that Steve can’t name many NFL victims of AIDS would also betray the blackness and Latinoness of the NFL — black and Latino men being most likely to contract AIDS.

    In reality, all ball players are homos whether they died of AIDS or not.

    • LOL: bomag
  5. Because lesbians tend to be more masculine than most women and gay men tend to be less masculine than most men?

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @Tono Bungay
    @JimDandy

    I like your guess better than my own, below.

  6. “I will take Effects of Testosterone for $600, Alex.”

    • Agree: theMann
  7. OT – Moscow hospitals to deny routine care to people who haven’t got the COVID-19 vaccine:

    Moscow hospitals to deny routine treatment to patients who refuse Covid-19 vaccines, as Kremlin warns skepticism is costing lives

    https://www.rt.com/russia/526966-routine-treatment-refusal-non-vaccinated/

    I’ve seen any number of liberals in the US advocate just this.

    But wait…………if those evil Russians (Boo! Hiss!) are doing it, can it be good? If Vladimir Putin wants you to get the jab, is the jab still double-plus good? It must be difficult to be a liberal COVID-Karen these days.

    • LOL: Unladen Swallow
  8. Bu-bu-but … Gay guys must be as prevalent in male professional sports as gay galz are in women’s pro sports! Otherwise strict egalitarianism isn’t true and I’d have to give my conception of how the world works a serious re-think!!!

  9. There are a couple major MMA fighters who could be gay (I follow the sport closely).

    Nobody coming out soon and probably nobody ever from Brazil or Russia (both produce a ton of fighters). Fighters come from rough areas of Brazil and Russia, not the politically correct class.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Whereismyhandle

    The rough areas are the ones that produce gays/trannies. Homosexuality is closely associated with low income/single parenthood. Privileged people are less likely to be gay.

    , @gent
    @Whereismyhandle

    There is an MMA to gay porn pipeline.

    Replies: @Stebbing Heuer

  10. Think of how much better the national dialogue would be if more than one view were presented.
    Half of the NY Times article would blame systemic homophobia for the lack of gay male athletes, and the other half of the article would argue that sports are masculine activities that naturally draw heterosexual males.
    Half of a NY Times article would be head scratching about why the murder rates have skyrocketed, and the other half of the article would present Sailerian arguments about black crime rates.
    Let the reader decide.
    How refreshing it would be to the intellect to hear a debate, to hear contending arguments.
    Instead we get dull propaganda, propaganda, propaganda…

    • Replies: @photondancer
    @rebel yell

    A long time ago, a couple of decades at least, I recall the Sydney Morning Herald would have 2 articles on its op-ed page. One arguing for X, one arguing against. X would be a real issue, not some nonentity carrying on about their feelz. I miss those days.

    , @Desiderius
    @rebel yell

    That's what happens when an institution evolves over the centuries as single-sex then you change that piece suddenly.

  11. In other news, gay men outnumber lesbians in competitive flower arrangement.

    • LOL: Hibernian
  12. In locker rooms, on fields and on courts, male athletes are taught to embrace heteronormative standards of masculinity.

    I would have thought that the “playing with the boys” scene in Top Gun would have shattered that stereotype.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    @black sea

    In all circumstances, heteronormative is the masculine standard of behavior, i.e. normal behavior. Homosexuality is the exception, or outlier to normative behavior.


    In locker rooms, on fields and on courts, male athletes are taught to embrace heteronormative standards of masculinity.
     
    The statement infers an inversion of cause and effect--approaching the fantasy of not just gender, but behavior as "assigned" at birth. E.g., normative masculine instinctual behavior includes competition, competitive team and individual sport, and athletic performance--much of it evolved from the warrior ethos, as centuries of history document/demonstrate.

    But, taking the premise further--if heteronormative behavior is "taught," then wouldn't the same teaching apply to homosexual behavior? Therefore, homosexuality could be cured/fixed/altered by teaching/training/therapy.

    Seems an argument against interest in the current LBGTQWERTY dogma.

  13. Radio sports talk show host Doug Gottlieb said a friend of his coaches in the WNBA and actually counted the number of lesbians on his team–60%. If gays or 2-3% of the population then there should be about a zero percent chance that any of 20 or so people would be gay?
    For example, Asians are 2-3% of the population but there’s been only one Asian serial killer in the U.S. The sample size is so small for serial killers it’s not going to reflect the racial composite of the U.S.

    Why didn’t the author of the NYT article bother to think that maybe male athlete’s brains are hyper-masculine as are there bodies obviously are? And likewise female brains are masculinized as their bodies are. If they are taller than average, more muscular than average, then their brains are likely to be more masculine as well.

    • Replies: @purpleslog
    @McBride3030

    There are lots of unsolved murders that the please think could be the work I’ve never discovered serial killers. Maybe the Asian serial killers are really smart and never get caught.

    Replies: @McBride3030

    , @EdwardM
    @McBride3030

    If gays are 2% of the population, then the probability of a group of 20 randomly-selected people including at least one gay is around 1-in-3.

    At 3% of the population, the probability increases to around 1-in-2.

    , @gandydancer
    @McBride3030


    If gays or 2-3% of the population then there should be about a zero percent chance that any of 20 or so people would be gay?
     
    Um, no. The chance of none of 20 random people being homo would be .98**20-.97**20, or ~67%-54%.
  14. Tim Richmond, NASCAR driver, died of AIDS in 1989. His infection has widely been attributed to heterosexual promiscuity, but it can’t be known for certain. His dad was a welder who got wealthy by inventing a machine for underground tunneling and pipe laying, so the family became wealthy. Maybe there was a nouveau riche complete lack of restraint as opportunities presented themselves for Tim to lay a lot of pipe as a hotshot and genuinely talented driver.

    https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/-/5-1103948/

    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    @Lockean Proviso

    Apparently AIDS doesn’t transmit easily from women to men.

    But a single shoot-up of a drug using a needle already AIDS-contaminated would most likely give you AIDS. It could have been a single experiment. It only takes once.

    This was not known in the early day of AIDS.

    Replies: @james wilson

    , @mmack
    @Lockean Proviso

    Tim Richmond was the prototypical Open Wheel to NASCAR racer. Rookie of the Year for the 1980 Indianapolis 500, in NASCAR by 1981. Should have been a warning to CART, which started bringing in more foreign born drivers over the 1980s-90s.

    I remember the rumors around Tim's illness in the late 1980s. I also recall rumors of NASCAR altering drug test results to keep him out of racing. It was a shame since he had telegenic looks and a freakish ability as a driver. Even more amazing since he didn't start racing until his early 20s, positively ancient for a racing driver these days.

    , @Corn
    @Lockean Proviso

    I watched a documentary about Tim Richmond once, probably the same one mentioned in the discussion on your link. I recall one NASCAR doctor saying when word broke Richmond had AIDS alot of doctors and pit crew bosses on the circuit started giving little sermons on the dangers of promiscuity and groupies. This doc said his office filled up with sheepish drivers and pit crewmen wanting AIDS tests.

  15. The Patriots gave a tryout to Michael Sams, a bono linebacker or some such a couple of years back, likely a favor to Goodell. Kid didn’t make it, he was in the final cut to 53 that year, 2018, a Super Bowl year. Belichick does a lot of favors, like hiring EEOC QB candidate Cam Newton, because the NFL didn’t need another washed up black QB running around claiming the 80% black NFL is racist. Getting so black QBs resist retirement as much as street blacks resist arrest.

    • Replies: @Sick of Orcs
    @Jim Christian

    Thank you, Jim, was beginning to fear I was the only one who remembered Michael Sam.

    Draft pick or not they labeled Sam 'the first gay NFL player.'

    But now this new guy is the first NFL poo-pusher.

    (((fake news))) logically can't get their gay propaganda straight.

    Replies: @Morton's toes

    , @I, Libertine
    @Jim Christian

    My favorite Newton move of 2020 was that quick pass he'd make to would-be receivers ten to fifteen yards to his left or right that would land at their feet. Comedy gold.

    , @Half Canadian
    @Jim Christian

    I seem to remember that Michael Sam was invited to play for a CFL team, but he declined or was cut.

    Replies: @Unladen Swallow

  16. Are there more gays (and lesbians, and trans, and generally sexually confused people) than before?

    Gays today are like Jews, they appear to be everywhere, despite being just 2% or whatever they are of the population. Perhaps it’s just a media effect, or perhaps, there’s something to those theories that eating soy or drinking fluoridated water or wearing pink or masturbating too much could turn you gay?

  17. One reason dudes want to be pro athletes is the amount of tail they get. Gay men who are moderately attractive get all the sex they want. That has to put a damper on the drive to succeed at whatever-ball.

  18. About a decade ago, the captain of Wales’ rugby team, Gareth Thomas, came out as gay, and it was celebrated as a stunning and brave feat. (More recently, he came out as HIV positive. That, too, was presented as a brave and stunning thing. Says he cried a lot. Like I said, stunning and brave.)

    Israel Folau, who was easily the best player on Australia’s national rugby team, wrote a post on social media in which he said that gays will go to hell. (He’s a Christian, and his parents are from Tonga. My impression is that Tonga is not a very woke place.) He was pushed out of rugby union. Last I heard, he was playing rugby league in France. It is quite a different game, with quite a different culture. Rugby’s loss; Folau was a great player – far better than Thomas had ever been.

    I played quite a lot of rugby on a decent level; can’t recall that I ever caught a gay vibe from anyone I played with. Then again, we’re talking about South Africa roughly three decades ago.

    • Replies: @photondancer
    @Sergeant Prepper

    The treatment of Folau was an absolute disgrace. His wife copped so much of the fallout she retired from the NZ netball team. At least it opened my eyes to just how vicious the woke are, and just how happy they would be to turn Australia into New East Germany.

    Replies: @Sergeant Prepper

  19. @Mr. Anon

    Interestingly, rock stars were not hard hit: after Freddie Mercury, the most famous victim was … who? The guy in the B-52s? Rock stars tend to be the not terribly masculine pretty boys who figure out it’s a good way to get girls.
     
    Dan Hartman.

    Also, one of the musicians in Level 42.

    So - yeah - not that famous.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Dave Pinsen, @Feryl

    We don’t have a name for the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones, but highly heterosexual and drives young women wild.

    • Replies: @Tono Bungay
    @Steve Sailer

    There's another characteristic of almost all rock singers: they have high-pitched voices.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar

    , @Abe
    @Steve Sailer


    We don’t have a name for the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones, but highly heterosexual and drives young women wild.
     
    The late, great Peter Steele- of 90’s tongue-in-cheek goth metal band TYPE O NEGATIVE- would have crunched them all for snacks in a Carpathian Minute. While never of Daltrey or Morrison-level musical talent (let alone of a Mercury or a Plant) I think this dude- freakishly tall at 6’5”+ and looking like Dr. Frankenstein assembled him from the remains of 1 1/2 Fabio’s, probably sets the bar for rock star looks.

    He died early (of a heart condition, not AIDS) but certainly cleaned up with the chicks during his short stint on earth. And ironic, funny, sophisticated, and not-at-all-full of itself pop culture- of which TYPE O NEGATIVE was just a minor exemplar back then- seemed like our birthright in the 90’s- oh what has been lost! For example, while Tarantino has always been a foul, twisted little racial cuck (just look at the wet-eyed excitement with which he lays out the gruesome fate of Zed the hillbilly pawn shop rapist in PULP FICTION) remember when Travolta accidentally shoots his black teen accomplice in that same flick? The ensuing heated and incredibly callous (and hilarious on account of this very callousness) debate between him and Sam Jackson over what to do now that their car is soaked in this “dead n*ggers brains” is almost certainly the cinematic zenith (even if mostly ironically) of “black lives don’t matter!”

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DBWsyBftlMw

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Steve Sailer

    Both opera and rock music seem to value tenors over baritones and basses when it comes to fame and fortune. The most famous baritone rock singer was likely Jim Morrison. And I can’t think of a popular bass singer in rock music. Barry White? The guy from Crash Test Dummies? As far as opera, it seems like all of the famous ones are tenor, although there are plenty of great roles written for baritones and basses, like the title character and the Commendatore, respectively, in “Don Giovanni”.

    Replies: @Anon

    , @peterike
    @Steve Sailer


    We don’t have a name for the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones, but highly heterosexual and drives young women wild.

     

    Yeah we do. The name is "rock star."
    , @Rockford Tyson
    @Steve Sailer

    They are not that heterosexual, though. David Bowie, Steven Tyler, etc, all had sexual experiences with men by their own admission...

    Replies: @Feryl

    , @Rex Little
    @Steve Sailer


    the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones
     
    And then there's Phil Collins. . .

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  20. … In the Ultimate Fighting Championship, the highest-caliber mixed martial arts promotion, the best female fighter of all time, Amanda Nunes, is an out lesbian.

    Wow. What were the odds of that?

    Ha, yeah, the surprise is that they have some feminine, heterosexual female fighters too. They have a number of very butch Brazilian gals though.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Dave Pinsen

    Amanda seems to be living in a 2-female household and they have a good-looking baby, too. 🤗

    https://www.instagram.com/amanda_leoa/

    , @additionalMike
    @Dave Pinsen

    When watching female MMA, pre-fight, you can often pick the winner just by her appearance and build. The least feminine fighter will usually prevail.

    , @Inselaffen
    @Dave Pinsen

    a large number of the 'female' MMA fighters from Brazil are strikingly masculine, compared to those from the entire rest of the world. I gather rampant steroid taking is pretty common in Brazil, evidently for females too, but I'm not sure that explains the whole of it...

    another unsurprising trend in female MMA fighters I've noted is being prior victims of abuse (either as a child or domestic/partner abuse).

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    , @nobodyofnowhere
    @Dave Pinsen

    The biggest surprise is that one of the butchest Brazilian women, Cris Cyborg, is straight.

  21. Anonymous[165] • Disclaimer says:
    @Whereismyhandle
    There are a couple major MMA fighters who could be gay (I follow the sport closely).

    Nobody coming out soon and probably nobody ever from Brazil or Russia (both produce a ton of fighters). Fighters come from rough areas of Brazil and Russia, not the politically correct class.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @gent

    The rough areas are the ones that produce gays/trannies. Homosexuality is closely associated with low income/single parenthood. Privileged people are less likely to be gay.

    • Disagree: Rich
  22. @rebel yell
    Think of how much better the national dialogue would be if more than one view were presented.
    Half of the NY Times article would blame systemic homophobia for the lack of gay male athletes, and the other half of the article would argue that sports are masculine activities that naturally draw heterosexual males.
    Half of a NY Times article would be head scratching about why the murder rates have skyrocketed, and the other half of the article would present Sailerian arguments about black crime rates.
    Let the reader decide.
    How refreshing it would be to the intellect to hear a debate, to hear contending arguments.
    Instead we get dull propaganda, propaganda, propaganda...

    Replies: @photondancer, @Desiderius

    A long time ago, a couple of decades at least, I recall the Sydney Morning Herald would have 2 articles on its op-ed page. One arguing for X, one arguing against. X would be a real issue, not some nonentity carrying on about their feelz. I miss those days.

  23. @McBride3030
    Radio sports talk show host Doug Gottlieb said a friend of his coaches in the WNBA and actually counted the number of lesbians on his team--60%. If gays or 2-3% of the population then there should be about a zero percent chance that any of 20 or so people would be gay?
    For example, Asians are 2-3% of the population but there's been only one Asian serial killer in the U.S. The sample size is so small for serial killers it's not going to reflect the racial composite of the U.S.

    Why didn't the author of the NYT article bother to think that maybe male athlete's brains are hyper-masculine as are there bodies obviously are? And likewise female brains are masculinized as their bodies are. If they are taller than average, more muscular than average, then their brains are likely to be more masculine as well.

    Replies: @purpleslog, @EdwardM, @gandydancer

    There are lots of unsolved murders that the please think could be the work I’ve never discovered serial killers. Maybe the Asian serial killers are really smart and never get caught.

    • Replies: @McBride3030
    @purpleslog

    I believe there's just one Jewish serial killer also---Joel Rifkin. David Berkowitz was raised in a secular Jewish home but he was actually ethnically Italian. I think.

    Replies: @Flip

  24. @Sergeant Prepper
    About a decade ago, the captain of Wales' rugby team, Gareth Thomas, came out as gay, and it was celebrated as a stunning and brave feat. (More recently, he came out as HIV positive. That, too, was presented as a brave and stunning thing. Says he cried a lot. Like I said, stunning and brave.)

    Israel Folau, who was easily the best player on Australia's national rugby team, wrote a post on social media in which he said that gays will go to hell. (He's a Christian, and his parents are from Tonga. My impression is that Tonga is not a very woke place.) He was pushed out of rugby union. Last I heard, he was playing rugby league in France. It is quite a different game, with quite a different culture. Rugby's loss; Folau was a great player - far better than Thomas had ever been.

    I played quite a lot of rugby on a decent level; can't recall that I ever caught a gay vibe from anyone I played with. Then again, we're talking about South Africa roughly three decades ago.

    Replies: @photondancer

    The treatment of Folau was an absolute disgrace. His wife copped so much of the fallout she retired from the NZ netball team. At least it opened my eyes to just how vicious the woke are, and just how happy they would be to turn Australia into New East Germany.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Sergeant Prepper
    @photondancer

    Yes, it was an absolute disgrace. My respect for Folau keeps growing, though. He is not afraid to stand alone. A while ago, after he switched to league, he was the only player on the field who refused to take a knee for BLM. (https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/122324852/israel-folau-refuses-to-take-a-knee-in-support-of-black-lives-matter ) Fantastic rugby player with huge balls.

    Replies: @photondancer

  25. @Mr. Anon

    Interestingly, rock stars were not hard hit: after Freddie Mercury, the most famous victim was … who? The guy in the B-52s? Rock stars tend to be the not terribly masculine pretty boys who figure out it’s a good way to get girls.
     
    Dan Hartman.

    Also, one of the musicians in Level 42.

    So - yeah - not that famous.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Dave Pinsen, @Feryl

    Dan Hartman wrote a perfect, Motown-style pop song for the soundtrack of Streets of Fire.

    • Replies: @JR Ewing
    @Dave Pinsen

    I always get Eddie and the Cruisers and Streets of Fire mixed up, maybe because it's the same guy - Michael Paré - playing the lead in each and they came out within a year of each other and were both about ca. 1960 rock and roll.

    Or maybe I'm confused about that, too.

    , @duncsbaby
    @Dave Pinsen

    Wow, I always liked that song. Never knew Dan Hartman died of AIDS or that he was gay. I see on wikipedia that he wrote "Free Ride" by the Edgar Winter Group.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAFyvePcR_o

  26. Japanese soccer player Yokoyama comes out as transgender
    https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-japan-international-soccer-soccer-sports-ceb075bb905decb09367c466f1da27d4

    I reckon she’s lesbian, but has been caught up in the transgender zeitgeist. Lesbianism is so yesterdaysville.

    • Replies: @Triteleia Laxa
    @Anon

    I wonder if being transgender will increase her chances of sexual and romantic success?

  27. Offhand guess: Straight men are more grossed out by male homosexuality than straight women by lesbians.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Tono Bungay

    Straight women may turn out lesbian at some point of their lives.

    Men are more honest & stable- you're either straight or gay, frequently a suppressed gay, but you know who you are.

    Women are fickle. A perfectly hetero female, not suppressing anything, may go lesbian in her 40s.

    https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Lesbian+after+marriage%3A+Jennifer+Baumgardner+takes+a+look+at+the...-a0169412893


    DEBORAH ABBOTT WAS SOMEWHAT HAPPILY MARRIED to a nice man with whom she'd created two adorable sons before she realized that the intense rapport with her best friend, Rachel, was the first step toward love and "unbelievably thrilling" sex with women. After separating from her husband, she'd often laugh at her dueling identities. "I would be at the PTA meeting and people would assume that I was heterosexual," says Abbott. "And then I'd be dancing at a club and people would be shocked to learn I had an ex-husband and kids!"


    ABBOTT CAN GIGGLE NOW, but when she began looking for resources for "married lesbians" back in the early 1980s, she found nothing and felt lonely. So she started her own support group in Santa Cruz, Calif., called From Wedded Wife to Lesbian Life, which would also become the name of her 1995 book published by Crossing Press. "I have women who've come for years," says Abbott, currently the director of the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender Resource Center at the University of California, Santa Cruz. "We are a community." And the newbies? "They look around the room and weep with relief," she adds. "They say, 'Everyone looks so normal!'"

    Abbott's group sees about 100 women a year who pretty much thought they were straight through years of marriage and child rearing, only to have a change of heart later in life. Call them LAMs--or lesbians after marriage: These are the women who have tied the knot, procreated, and, once the children are out of the home or more independent, found love in the arms of a woman.
     
    Different brains.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon

  28. @JimDandy
    Because lesbians tend to be more masculine than most women and gay men tend to be less masculine than most men?

    Replies: @Tono Bungay

    I like your guess better than my own, below.

  29. @Steve Sailer
    @Mr. Anon

    We don't have a name for the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones, but highly heterosexual and drives young women wild.

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Abe, @Hapalong Cassidy, @peterike, @Rockford Tyson, @Rex Little

    There’s another characteristic of almost all rock singers: they have high-pitched voices.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Tono Bungay

    As do the highest paid 300 pound opera singers. Similarly, violin soloists make more money than double bassists and guitarists make more money than bassists.

    Replies: @stillCARealist, @JMcG

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Tono Bungay


    There’s another characteristic of almost all rock singers: they have high-pitched voices.
     
    One striking exception is this bloke named Beverly:


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G0cGNOaVNJk


    "Boris the Spider" is also quite deep in the chorus:



    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kS0xVTrUk7w

    Replies: @cthulhu

  30. Nassib is also at least party of Arab (probably Levantine) descent, Nassim Taleb must be extremely proud (heh) that one of his own broke this barrier

  31. “Why Are There More Lesbian Than Gay Male Jocks?”

    We don’t don’t need to know why, Steve. All we need to know is that it must change.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Mike Tre

    It won't.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

  32. @photondancer
    @Sergeant Prepper

    The treatment of Folau was an absolute disgrace. His wife copped so much of the fallout she retired from the NZ netball team. At least it opened my eyes to just how vicious the woke are, and just how happy they would be to turn Australia into New East Germany.

    Replies: @Sergeant Prepper

    Yes, it was an absolute disgrace. My respect for Folau keeps growing, though. He is not afraid to stand alone. A while ago, after he switched to league, he was the only player on the field who refused to take a knee for BLM. (https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/122324852/israel-folau-refuses-to-take-a-knee-in-support-of-black-lives-matter ) Fantastic rugby player with huge balls.

    • Replies: @photondancer
    @Sergeant Prepper

    I did not know that, thanks. A man with integrity. Well, he's handsomely paid so I don't need to support his Patreon, but I will keep an eye out for him in future.

  33. In your article, “Why Lesbians Aren’t Gay”, you basically made mention that the natural order of things are inverted. In other words, some lesbians would tend to have higher levels of testosterone than most gays. With higher levels of testosterone equals more desire to do masculine things, including playing masculine sports, as opposed to feminine, lower testosterone sports (e.g. dancing).

    How many great lesbian ballet dancers are there compared to gay dancers?

    Also, as the natural order of things is inverted, gays take on more feminine traits similar to straight women, and this would even include desires. Most straight women, then as now, have no desire to participate in masculine sports and this is similar to most gays.

    Perhaps one exception is that there are some gay men who do participate in men’s bodybuilding, which tends to have a bit of a homoerotic edge to it. Perhaps this is the one sport that would tend to attract both gays and lesbians.

    In the Current Year, the one personality trait that is shared by lesbians and gays is the ability to whine and paint oneself as a victim “Life isn’t fair, the straight homophobic society is so against me and my community, etc”.

    “Rock stars tend to be the not terribly masculine pretty boys who figure out it’s a good way to get girls.”

    Rock stars tend to be straight enough and have more than enough testosterone who like girls, period. Gays would tend to be the rock stars’ set designers (for their tours). Or in some cases, their songwriters.

    “Maybe it inhibited gays not only from coming out but also from going into sports?”

    The personality of gays resembles that of straight women, and most straight women have no desire to participate in masculine sports.

    Touching on a minor point that was made in your article, and that would be that perhaps lesbians as a whole aren’t as consumed, obsessed, driven by having as much sex as possible with many people as possible. AIDS didn’t decimate the number of lesbians in the US. And lesbians today aren’t really known for being terribly promiscuous (especially compared to straight women, who today would tend to be more promiscuous than their parents generation). Compared to many gays, lesbians simply aren’t having multiple hookups in a single year, or doing multiple people in a single encounter. That kind of thing only exists in an adult studio’s fantasy (which tends to cater to straight males’ fantasies).

    But it hardly exists in real life. Compared to the most promiscuous gays, lesbians are celibate. Which would tend to lead to the question: Perhaps most lesbians simply don’t like masculine men in general, because they are seen as a rival for straight women’s affections? (especially if the total number of gays in the US is greater than lesbians)

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    "How many great lesbian ballet dancers are there compared to gay dancers?"

    The NYT just ran an article about that:

    Lesbians in Ballet: ‘Has Anyone Like Me Ever Walked These Halls?’

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/01/arts/dance/lesbians-in-ballet.html?searchResultPosition=1

    In other words, there aren't many lesbian ballerinas. Darren Aronofsky lied to you in "Black Swan."

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    , @Dissident
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    perhaps lesbians as a whole aren’t as consumed, obsessed, driven by having as much sex as possible with many people as possible.
     
    "Perhaps"? Would one expect females to even have the same libido as males, let alone to pursue it as actively or promiscuously? Homosexual females are, after all, females, are they not?

    AIDS didn’t decimate the number of lesbians in the US. And lesbians today aren’t really known for being terribly promiscuous
     
    The inordinately high rates of sexually-transmitted infections and diseases[1] among homosexually active males[2] is the result not only of an inordinate degree of promiscuity but also of the anatomical and physiological realities of using the ano-rectal cavity as a substitute for the female copulatory one. An exacerbating factor is that HIV is spread primarily from the penetrative partner to the receptive one. Since females, unlike males, are limited exclusively to the latter (in any applicable act), heterosexual buggery (much less frequent or prevalent to begin with) does not transmit HIV at as high a rate as the homo variety does.

    [1] Includes many others in addition to HIV-AIDS.
    [2]What the CDC calls MSM-- Men who have sex with other men.
    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Don’t forget there is a streak of uber-macho culture among homos. Historically, many highly efficient military units & even wider troops were gays/pederasts, in Greece, Ottoman Empire (Janissaries) & many prominent military or adventurous men were gays (Kitchener, R.F. Burton, Rhodes etc.).

    Gays can be, simplistically, divided into two categories: hyper-masculine & effeminate (with, of course, many nuances). It isn’t for nothing that many gays display quasi-Nazi fixation on leather & other iconographic emblems.

    , @Mike Tre
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    "With higher levels of testosterone equals more desire to do masculine things, including playing masculine sports, as opposed to feminine, lower testosterone sports (e.g. dancing)."

    Homosexual men still have higher T than their lesbian counterparts. And it seems clear homosexual men may prefer activities that are deemed "less masculine" but I expect they still go out and participate in the brutal and aggressive act of buggery. There might not be anything less feminine than two men engaged in that act.

    Don't get me wrong, I am mostly in agreement with your position, but like I say with Steve's high T transsexual theory, there are many more factors at work than just testosterone. It's not a binary issue.

  34. @Dave Pinsen

    … In the Ultimate Fighting Championship, the highest-caliber mixed martial arts promotion, the best female fighter of all time, Amanda Nunes, is an out lesbian.

    Wow. What were the odds of that?
     
    Ha, yeah, the surprise is that they have some feminine, heterosexual female fighters too. They have a number of very butch Brazilian gals though.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1406374581326299136?s=20

    Replies: @El Dato, @additionalMike, @Inselaffen, @nobodyofnowhere

    Amanda seems to be living in a 2-female household and they have a good-looking baby, too. 🤗

    https://www.instagram.com/amanda_leoa/

  35. Fred Schneider lives, by the way. He lives in part because he remains wary of pools.

    • Replies: @I, Libertine
    @J.Ross

    Fred Schneider is alive and gay, alright. But Steve was referring to Ricky Wilson, their original lead guitar player.

    P.S. Internet comment sections are haunted by scolds who can't let even an implied error of fact go by without correction. I suppose I'm now one of them.

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @J.Ross

  36. @Jim Christian
    The Patriots gave a tryout to Michael Sams, a bono linebacker or some such a couple of years back, likely a favor to Goodell. Kid didn't make it, he was in the final cut to 53 that year, 2018, a Super Bowl year. Belichick does a lot of favors, like hiring EEOC QB candidate Cam Newton, because the NFL didn't need another washed up black QB running around claiming the 80% black NFL is racist. Getting so black QBs resist retirement as much as street blacks resist arrest.

    Replies: @Sick of Orcs, @I, Libertine, @Half Canadian

    Thank you, Jim, was beginning to fear I was the only one who remembered Michael Sam.

    Draft pick or not they labeled Sam ‘the first gay NFL player.’

    But now this new guy is the first NFL poo-pusher.

    (((fake news))) logically can’t get their gay propaganda straight.

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    @Sick of Orcs

    He got drafted and he stayed on the roster until the final cut.

    In other words he was the closest thing they had. There also was at least one gay guy who came out of the closet after he retired.

    Also somebody wrote it was the Patriots who had Sam. Not. It was Rams.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

  37. @Reg Cæsar

    Interestingly, rock stars were not hard hit: after Freddie Mercury, the most famous victim was … who?
     
    Tom Fogerty. But like Arthur Ashe, he contracted it via blood transfusion.

    Richard Lapchick, the director of the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport.
     
    A dick-lap-chick certainly sounds diverse. Give him that much.

    Will Carl Nassib’s announcement change that?
     
    That name sounds a bit Sotadic, don'tcha think?


    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51v8CThrBqL._SX373_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


    Carl Nassib = Class in bra. Lab scan, sir!

    Replies: @G. Poulin, @Whataboutery2020

    That was Tom Fogerty’s official story, but I have my doubts.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @G. Poulin


    That was Tom Fogerty’s official story, but I have my doubts.
     
    Understandable. But I have my doubts about your doubts.


    "Fogerty is survived by his wife, Tricia, six children and four brothers."

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-09-15-mn-214-story.html


    Perhaps you confuse him with Dan Hartman, the true talent behind "the Edgar Winter Group featuring Rick Derringer".

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Hartman#Personal_life_and_death

    Replies: @G. Poulin

  38. Maybe it inhibited gays not only from coming out but also from going into sports?

    There seems to be two ways of interpreting this.

    1. Sports are inherently masculine and gay men avoid those types of thing.

    2. The ethos of sports were macho and anti-gay, so gay men stayed away from where they were not wanted.

    I think a lot of commenters want to believe 1, but 2 is more likely.

    Gay men, judging by a famous beach I visited with a lot of them, don’t have any problem with having extremely masculine physiques. Nor in being attracted to areas with lots of men; of course.

    Perhaps the whole thing can be summarised by how scared they would be of the old-style communal changing rooms and showers as teens?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Triteleia Laxa

    As I wrote in 1994:

    "A warm Saturday afternoon in late May brings all of Chicago to the lakefront. In the Wrigleyville section of Lincoln Park, softball teams with names like “We Are Everywhere” and “The 10 Percenters” compete with an intensity that could shame the Cubs. Girded for battle with sliding pads, batting gloves, and taped ankles, the short-haired women slash extra-base hits, turn the double play, and hit the cutoff woman with a practiced efficiency that arouses admiring shouts from the women spectators.

    "Meanwhile, on a grassy lakeside bluff a few blocks to the south, the men of the New Town neighborhood bask, golden, in the sun. If ever a rogue urge to strike a ball with a stick is felt by any of the elegantly sprawled multitude, it is quickly subdued. This absence of athletic strife is certainly not the result of any lack of muscle tone: many have clearly spent the dark months in thrall to SoloFlex and StairMaster. But now, the sun is shining and the men are content for their sculpted bodies to be rather than to do."

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/why-lesbians-arent-gay/

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Bardon Kaldian, @Triteleia Laxa, @Alden, @Reg Cæsar

  39. Of interest:

    “LGBTQ+ Power Couples of Hollywood”

    https://www.imdb.com/whats-on-tv/lgbtq-power-couples/rg3163593472/mediaviewer/rm1538700545/

    I would expect to find a “power couple” at the local high-voltage transformer station, but ok. I also think they are mostly just LG, and not really “BTQ+” which are …. well …

  40. @Anon
    Japanese soccer player Yokoyama comes out as transgender
    https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-japan-international-soccer-soccer-sports-ceb075bb905decb09367c466f1da27d4

    I reckon she's lesbian, but has been caught up in the transgender zeitgeist. Lesbianism is so yesterdaysville.

    Replies: @Triteleia Laxa

    I wonder if being transgender will increase her chances of sexual and romantic success?

  41. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    In your article, "Why Lesbians Aren't Gay", you basically made mention that the natural order of things are inverted. In other words, some lesbians would tend to have higher levels of testosterone than most gays. With higher levels of testosterone equals more desire to do masculine things, including playing masculine sports, as opposed to feminine, lower testosterone sports (e.g. dancing).

    How many great lesbian ballet dancers are there compared to gay dancers?

    Also, as the natural order of things is inverted, gays take on more feminine traits similar to straight women, and this would even include desires. Most straight women, then as now, have no desire to participate in masculine sports and this is similar to most gays.

    Perhaps one exception is that there are some gay men who do participate in men's bodybuilding, which tends to have a bit of a homoerotic edge to it. Perhaps this is the one sport that would tend to attract both gays and lesbians.

    In the Current Year, the one personality trait that is shared by lesbians and gays is the ability to whine and paint oneself as a victim "Life isn't fair, the straight homophobic society is so against me and my community, etc".


    "Rock stars tend to be the not terribly masculine pretty boys who figure out it’s a good way to get girls."

    Rock stars tend to be straight enough and have more than enough testosterone who like girls, period. Gays would tend to be the rock stars' set designers (for their tours). Or in some cases, their songwriters.


    "Maybe it inhibited gays not only from coming out but also from going into sports?"

    The personality of gays resembles that of straight women, and most straight women have no desire to participate in masculine sports.

    Touching on a minor point that was made in your article, and that would be that perhaps lesbians as a whole aren't as consumed, obsessed, driven by having as much sex as possible with many people as possible. AIDS didn't decimate the number of lesbians in the US. And lesbians today aren't really known for being terribly promiscuous (especially compared to straight women, who today would tend to be more promiscuous than their parents generation). Compared to many gays, lesbians simply aren't having multiple hookups in a single year, or doing multiple people in a single encounter. That kind of thing only exists in an adult studio's fantasy (which tends to cater to straight males' fantasies).

    But it hardly exists in real life. Compared to the most promiscuous gays, lesbians are celibate. Which would tend to lead to the question: Perhaps most lesbians simply don't like masculine men in general, because they are seen as a rival for straight women's affections? (especially if the total number of gays in the US is greater than lesbians)

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Dissident, @Bardon Kaldian, @Mike Tre

    “How many great lesbian ballet dancers are there compared to gay dancers?”

    The NYT just ran an article about that:

    Lesbians in Ballet: ‘Has Anyone Like Me Ever Walked These Halls?’

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/01/arts/dance/lesbians-in-ballet.html?searchResultPosition=1

    In other words, there aren’t many lesbian ballerinas. Darren Aronofsky lied to you in “Black Swan.”

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Steve Sailer

    Ironically, Natalie Portman also played a lesbian character in "V is for Vendetta", one of the more overrated, overwrought, silly pieces of melodrama of the last decade and a half. Spoiler alert: The Nazis are at fault. Who would've guessed?

  42. @Mike Tre
    "Why Are There More Lesbian Than Gay Male Jocks?"

    We don't don't need to know why, Steve. All we need to know is that it must change.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    It won’t.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Steve Sailer

    THAT IS BESIDE THE POINT, CIS MAN!

    https://rightedition.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/femenist.png

    Replies: @El Dato, @anon

  43. @Tono Bungay
    @Steve Sailer

    There's another characteristic of almost all rock singers: they have high-pitched voices.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar

    As do the highest paid 300 pound opera singers. Similarly, violin soloists make more money than double bassists and guitarists make more money than bassists.

    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    @Steve Sailer

    High voices are louder than low voices. Obviously.

    I used to be an alto, and can still sing at those pitches, but now that I sing all the time I'm a soprano. Regular practice singing fully has made me understand how much the higher notes fit my natural range. And I can be heard clearly at treble C (one octave above middle C).

    However, rock singers are mostly rock shouters. good, clear singing doesn't work for rock songs. For some reason, without that straining sound there's no emotion or passion to convey and break a girl's heart.

    , @JMcG
    @Steve Sailer

    Now that’s interesting. How about 300 lb male opera singers?

  44. @Triteleia Laxa

    Maybe it inhibited gays not only from coming out but also from going into sports?
     
    There seems to be two ways of interpreting this.

    1. Sports are inherently masculine and gay men avoid those types of thing.

    2. The ethos of sports were macho and anti-gay, so gay men stayed away from where they were not wanted.

    I think a lot of commenters want to believe 1, but 2 is more likely.

    Gay men, judging by a famous beach I visited with a lot of them, don't have any problem with having extremely masculine physiques. Nor in being attracted to areas with lots of men; of course.

    Perhaps the whole thing can be summarised by how scared they would be of the old-style communal changing rooms and showers as teens?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    As I wrote in 1994:

    “A warm Saturday afternoon in late May brings all of Chicago to the lakefront. In the Wrigleyville section of Lincoln Park, softball teams with names like “We Are Everywhere” and “The 10 Percenters” compete with an intensity that could shame the Cubs. Girded for battle with sliding pads, batting gloves, and taped ankles, the short-haired women slash extra-base hits, turn the double play, and hit the cutoff woman with a practiced efficiency that arouses admiring shouts from the women spectators.

    “Meanwhile, on a grassy lakeside bluff a few blocks to the south, the men of the New Town neighborhood bask, golden, in the sun. If ever a rogue urge to strike a ball with a stick is felt by any of the elegantly sprawled multitude, it is quickly subdued. This absence of athletic strife is certainly not the result of any lack of muscle tone: many have clearly spent the dark months in thrall to SoloFlex and StairMaster. But now, the sun is shining and the men are content for their sculpted bodies to be rather than to do.”

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/why-lesbians-arent-gay/

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Steve Sailer

    I worked with a couple (in both senses) of gay women who would go to watch rugby union games together. Rugby is a pretty male and macho sport, but they appreciated it. Most women at rugby games are there with a male.


    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51hH9zLd-+L._SX373_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    In the bad old pre-woke days, rugby players (and others) would sing "rugby songs", nearly all of which were highly obscene and sexist, as can be seen from this list of (slightly Americanised) titles.

    http://www.rugbysongs.net/DownloadRugby%20songs.htm

    Replies: @Flip

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Steve Sailer

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ByHJ4MeDp-Q/maxresdefault.jpg

    , @Triteleia Laxa
    @Steve Sailer

    That's great writing, but I haven't noticed gay men being particularly comfortable with just "being". The culture seems hyperactive to me. I've also found that most I've met, as individuals, would benefit greatly from sitting still and breathing for a few minutes.

    I wonder if, given your comparison of TV famous stars, both sportsmen and musicians, who were in areas where being "outed" would hurt their careers, therefore had a lot less casual sex? Liberace did not have to worry about this, nor would many theatre actors, fashion designers or intellectuals, but, other than Rock Hudson, doesn't your observation also apply to Hollywood stars?

    I've looked up and found that 1/15 gay men in the US had died of AIDS by 1995. Yet I can only find one actor who I'd heard of. Can we really suppose that gay men are just naturally repelled by being movie stars? I could even find one tennis player, Arthur Ashe, and there are a lot fewer tennis players who are that type of famous.

    My perception of past attitudes to homosexuality is that it was usually privately accepted and tolerated, but publically made taboo. Politics, often the language of the public sphere, allows people's sadism out, as some "reasoned" excuse can always be made up. Private life, with its sense of connection and understanding, makes this excuse-making much harder.

    This is important for your thesis, since it would likely mean that gay men, in the pre-LGBTQ past, would avoid public roles and/or avoid behaviour, like risky sex, which would out them in those roles. Dancers and figure skaters were not really famous. People might recognise them, but not like they would sports or Hollywood stars.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home), @gandydancer

    , @Alden
    @Steve Sailer

    There were a couple of Will and Grace episodes. Will and the other gay guy joined a sports team because the uniforms were so cute. There was a big controversy over lemon VS marigold yellow piping on the uniforms And brought tapenade and other trendy expensive treats for a snack.

    Tapenade was a clever joke. It’s all the bits and pieces of olives flushed out of the machines at cleaning time and collected in like a sieve. Then mashed up with garlic and sold for a very high price to pretentious Whole Foods shoppers.

    Tapenade is the equivalent of MacDonalds hash browns. What’s left after the factory machinery chops up potatoes.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    Meanwhile, on a grassy lakeside bluff a few blocks to the south, the men of the New Town neighborhood bask, golden, in the sun. If ever a rogue urge to strike a ball with a stick is felt by any of the elegantly sprawled multitude, it is quickly subdued.
     
    Stereotypes are valid, or they wouldn't survive. But the exceptions are often entertaining, too.

    The Regular Guys:
    They follow sports, wear flannel shirts, smoke, drink, belch, and make crude jokes. Oh, one other thing. They're gay.


    https://1ryzas42x65e2oosia40bgli-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/127890.0.jpeg

  45. @Sergeant Prepper
    @photondancer

    Yes, it was an absolute disgrace. My respect for Folau keeps growing, though. He is not afraid to stand alone. A while ago, after he switched to league, he was the only player on the field who refused to take a knee for BLM. (https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/122324852/israel-folau-refuses-to-take-a-knee-in-support-of-black-lives-matter ) Fantastic rugby player with huge balls.

    Replies: @photondancer

    I did not know that, thanks. A man with integrity. Well, he’s handsomely paid so I don’t need to support his Patreon, but I will keep an eye out for him in future.

  46. @Steve Sailer
    @Mike Tre

    It won't.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    THAT IS BESIDE THE POINT, CIS MAN!

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @Mike Tre

    Excited Tintin is excited.

    This just in:

    ‘I’m so proud’: Biden says children are ‘seeing themselves in a new light’ after women’s football star reveals transgender switch


    US president Joe Biden has enthusiastically backed Japan international and US National Women's Soccer League star Kumi Yokoyama, who has said that her girlfriend encouraged her to find "courage" to come out as a transgender man.

    The 43-cap midfielder described how she had breast tissue removed around 20 years ago, confiding in Yuki Nagasato, a striker who is the first female to play for the first team of a Japanese men's club, in a video interview.

    Yokoyama said her time in the US and previous spell in Germany, where she played for Frankfurt, had made her feel more comfortable about disclosing her gender change.
     

    Okay.

    Apparently this is inspiring and big.

    https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1407506870181453824

    "What do you want to when you grow up, son?"

    "I want to be an astronaut!"

    "Why not take inspiration in something closer to home? Like... a woman?"

    At that moment, son was enlightened.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Triteleia Laxa, @c matt

    , @anon
    @Mike Tre

    Yes! There Is Aways More Work To Be Done!

    MOAR. TO. BE. DONE!

  47. @Tono Bungay
    Offhand guess: Straight men are more grossed out by male homosexuality than straight women by lesbians.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Straight women may turn out lesbian at some point of their lives.

    Men are more honest & stable- you’re either straight or gay, frequently a suppressed gay, but you know who you are.

    Women are fickle. A perfectly hetero female, not suppressing anything, may go lesbian in her 40s.

    https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Lesbian+after+marriage%3A+Jennifer+Baumgardner+takes+a+look+at+the…-a0169412893

    DEBORAH ABBOTT WAS SOMEWHAT HAPPILY MARRIED to a nice man with whom she’d created two adorable sons before she realized that the intense rapport with her best friend, Rachel, was the first step toward love and “unbelievably thrilling” sex with women. After separating from her husband, she’d often laugh at her dueling identities. “I would be at the PTA meeting and people would assume that I was heterosexual,” says Abbott. “And then I’d be dancing at a club and people would be shocked to learn I had an ex-husband and kids!”

    ABBOTT CAN GIGGLE NOW, but when she began looking for resources for “married lesbians” back in the early 1980s, she found nothing and felt lonely. So she started her own support group in Santa Cruz, Calif., called From Wedded Wife to Lesbian Life, which would also become the name of her 1995 book published by Crossing Press. “I have women who’ve come for years,” says Abbott, currently the director of the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender Resource Center at the University of California, Santa Cruz. “We are a community.” And the newbies? “They look around the room and weep with relief,” she adds. “They say, ‘Everyone looks so normal!’”

    Abbott’s group sees about 100 women a year who pretty much thought they were straight through years of marriage and child rearing, only to have a change of heart later in life. Call them LAMs–or lesbians after marriage: These are the women who have tied the knot, procreated, and, once the children are out of the home or more independent, found love in the arms of a woman.

    Different brains.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Bardon Kaldian

    John Updike wrote an amusing short story about two women he'd had adulterous affairs with winding up a lesbian couple.

    You can't get much straighter than wanting Updike to impregnate you with his Genius Seed rather than your mediocre suburban husband.

    , @Anon
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Female sexuality is likely more fluid than males' but bi men do exist. Bi males obviously have more incentive to stay closeted than bi females do. In decades past, some fully gay men LARPed as bi to soften the coming out process but those days are pretty much over. It's much easier to be openly gay than it was 30 years ago but it's almost as hard to be openly bi as a male as it was then, and much harder than being openly gay.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

  48. I always thought the Women’s Pro Basketball league was the Lesbian Negro Basketball Association. The LNBA not the WNBA. We got free tickets to a Sting game once and my naive wife thought the Rainbow stickers on all the cars were pretty.

    Women’s Pro Tennis seems to have had a few too with Martina and Billie Jean King.

  49. @Steve Sailer
    @Triteleia Laxa

    As I wrote in 1994:

    "A warm Saturday afternoon in late May brings all of Chicago to the lakefront. In the Wrigleyville section of Lincoln Park, softball teams with names like “We Are Everywhere” and “The 10 Percenters” compete with an intensity that could shame the Cubs. Girded for battle with sliding pads, batting gloves, and taped ankles, the short-haired women slash extra-base hits, turn the double play, and hit the cutoff woman with a practiced efficiency that arouses admiring shouts from the women spectators.

    "Meanwhile, on a grassy lakeside bluff a few blocks to the south, the men of the New Town neighborhood bask, golden, in the sun. If ever a rogue urge to strike a ball with a stick is felt by any of the elegantly sprawled multitude, it is quickly subdued. This absence of athletic strife is certainly not the result of any lack of muscle tone: many have clearly spent the dark months in thrall to SoloFlex and StairMaster. But now, the sun is shining and the men are content for their sculpted bodies to be rather than to do."

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/why-lesbians-arent-gay/

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Bardon Kaldian, @Triteleia Laxa, @Alden, @Reg Cæsar

    I worked with a couple (in both senses) of gay women who would go to watch rugby union games together. Rugby is a pretty male and macho sport, but they appreciated it. Most women at rugby games are there with a male.

    In the bad old pre-woke days, rugby players (and others) would sing “rugby songs”, nearly all of which were highly obscene and sexist, as can be seen from this list of (slightly Americanised) titles.

    http://www.rugbysongs.net/DownloadRugby%20songs.htm

    • Replies: @Flip
    @YetAnotherAnon

    "I used to work in Chicago at a department store..."

  50. @Steve Sailer
    @Triteleia Laxa

    As I wrote in 1994:

    "A warm Saturday afternoon in late May brings all of Chicago to the lakefront. In the Wrigleyville section of Lincoln Park, softball teams with names like “We Are Everywhere” and “The 10 Percenters” compete with an intensity that could shame the Cubs. Girded for battle with sliding pads, batting gloves, and taped ankles, the short-haired women slash extra-base hits, turn the double play, and hit the cutoff woman with a practiced efficiency that arouses admiring shouts from the women spectators.

    "Meanwhile, on a grassy lakeside bluff a few blocks to the south, the men of the New Town neighborhood bask, golden, in the sun. If ever a rogue urge to strike a ball with a stick is felt by any of the elegantly sprawled multitude, it is quickly subdued. This absence of athletic strife is certainly not the result of any lack of muscle tone: many have clearly spent the dark months in thrall to SoloFlex and StairMaster. But now, the sun is shining and the men are content for their sculpted bodies to be rather than to do."

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/why-lesbians-arent-gay/

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Bardon Kaldian, @Triteleia Laxa, @Alden, @Reg Cæsar

  51. @Reg Cæsar

    Interestingly, rock stars were not hard hit: after Freddie Mercury, the most famous victim was … who?
     
    Tom Fogerty. But like Arthur Ashe, he contracted it via blood transfusion.

    Richard Lapchick, the director of the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport.
     
    A dick-lap-chick certainly sounds diverse. Give him that much.

    Will Carl Nassib’s announcement change that?
     
    That name sounds a bit Sotadic, don'tcha think?


    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51v8CThrBqL._SX373_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


    Carl Nassib = Class in bra. Lab scan, sir!

    Replies: @G. Poulin, @Whataboutery2020

    Tom Fogerty. But like Arthur Ashe, he contracted it via blood transfusion.

    As per Brass Eye

    contracting it via blood transfusion is “good Aids”, not to be confused with “bad Aids”, contracted via drugs or man-fun.

  52. Anon[676] • Disclaimer says:

    We can test whether there really are a lot of gay male jocks but they are just to oppressed to come out of the closet by looking at death rates from AIDS during the 1980s-90s.

    AIDS really shook loose a lot of interesting data. Philippe Rushton hilariously was able to verify his r/K theory claim that blacks have bigger dicks by using WHO country-by-country condom specifications released during the AIDS crisis.

    • Replies: @very old statistician
    @Anon

    Boy are you gullible.

  53. @Mike Tre
    @Steve Sailer

    THAT IS BESIDE THE POINT, CIS MAN!

    https://rightedition.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/femenist.png

    Replies: @El Dato, @anon

    Excited Tintin is excited.

    This just in:

    ‘I’m so proud’: Biden says children are ‘seeing themselves in a new light’ after women’s football star reveals transgender switch

    US president Joe Biden has enthusiastically backed Japan international and US National Women’s Soccer League star Kumi Yokoyama, who has said that her girlfriend encouraged her to find “courage” to come out as a transgender man.

    The 43-cap midfielder described how she had breast tissue removed around 20 years ago, confiding in Yuki Nagasato, a striker who is the first female to play for the first team of a Japanese men’s club, in a video interview.

    Yokoyama said her time in the US and previous spell in Germany, where she played for Frankfurt, had made her feel more comfortable about disclosing her gender change.

    Okay.

    Apparently this is inspiring and big.

    “What do you want to when you grow up, son?”

    “I want to be an astronaut!”

    “Why not take inspiration in something closer to home? Like… a woman?”

    At that moment, son was enlightened.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @El Dato

    Why is the elderly President so excited to promote transgenders?

    Does he have something he'd like to disclose to us?

    Replies: @njguy73, @Desiderius, @Two plus two is never four, @peterike, @Truth

    , @Triteleia Laxa
    @El Dato

    Biden is such a credulous fuddy duddy. Two irrelevant athletes saying something about themselves is not changing anyone's life.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    , @c matt
    @El Dato

    So is Yokomama n/k/a Yokopapa no longer qualified to play in wymyn's league?

  54. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Tono Bungay

    Straight women may turn out lesbian at some point of their lives.

    Men are more honest & stable- you're either straight or gay, frequently a suppressed gay, but you know who you are.

    Women are fickle. A perfectly hetero female, not suppressing anything, may go lesbian in her 40s.

    https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Lesbian+after+marriage%3A+Jennifer+Baumgardner+takes+a+look+at+the...-a0169412893


    DEBORAH ABBOTT WAS SOMEWHAT HAPPILY MARRIED to a nice man with whom she'd created two adorable sons before she realized that the intense rapport with her best friend, Rachel, was the first step toward love and "unbelievably thrilling" sex with women. After separating from her husband, she'd often laugh at her dueling identities. "I would be at the PTA meeting and people would assume that I was heterosexual," says Abbott. "And then I'd be dancing at a club and people would be shocked to learn I had an ex-husband and kids!"


    ABBOTT CAN GIGGLE NOW, but when she began looking for resources for "married lesbians" back in the early 1980s, she found nothing and felt lonely. So she started her own support group in Santa Cruz, Calif., called From Wedded Wife to Lesbian Life, which would also become the name of her 1995 book published by Crossing Press. "I have women who've come for years," says Abbott, currently the director of the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender Resource Center at the University of California, Santa Cruz. "We are a community." And the newbies? "They look around the room and weep with relief," she adds. "They say, 'Everyone looks so normal!'"

    Abbott's group sees about 100 women a year who pretty much thought they were straight through years of marriage and child rearing, only to have a change of heart later in life. Call them LAMs--or lesbians after marriage: These are the women who have tied the knot, procreated, and, once the children are out of the home or more independent, found love in the arms of a woman.
     
    Different brains.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon

    John Updike wrote an amusing short story about two women he’d had adulterous affairs with winding up a lesbian couple.

    You can’t get much straighter than wanting Updike to impregnate you with his Genius Seed rather than your mediocre suburban husband.

    • Thanks: Bardon Kaldian
    • LOL: Triteleia Laxa
  55. Anon[349] • Disclaimer says:

    At the risk of doxing myself, I played high school football with Nassib.

    As far as I can recall, he made just one start on defense in his high school career, filling in for an injured player in the last game of the season his senior year. He recorded 3 sacks in an upset of one of the state’s major powerhouse schools.

    Perhaps the coaches thought there was something “off” about him. He was skinny then, but still 6’5” or 6’6”, quick and strong — if not “weight-room” strong. At that point, his brother was the star QB for Syracuse. I think his kindly demeanor and lack of eye-popping bench-press numbers turned our (rather thick-skulled) coaches against him.

    His girlfriend at the time was very hot.

    • Thanks: Triteleia Laxa
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    Thanks.

    Fascinating stuff.

    Replies: @I, Libertine

    , @Desiderius
    @Anon

    https://twitter.com/GorhamHarland/status/1407410591514439680?s=20

    Replies: @Alden, @Triteleia Laxa, @gandydancer

    , @Bugg
    @Anon

    Bigger is better. My son dominated a kid in high school both on the DL and OL in each of the games they played over the last 2 seasons. But the kid was 6'5". Difference between my 6'2" kid going to D2 and then Wall Street and that kid going to a major D1 school and then being a borderline NFL prospect. His HS OL coach had roughly the same kind of experience; OL coach was 6 foot HS "Lineman of the Year". But on the same HS team was Oday Aboushi, who is 6'5", went to UVA and has carved out a well-paying NFL OL career.

    None of the above are gay.

  56. @Dave Pinsen

    … In the Ultimate Fighting Championship, the highest-caliber mixed martial arts promotion, the best female fighter of all time, Amanda Nunes, is an out lesbian.

    Wow. What were the odds of that?
     
    Ha, yeah, the surprise is that they have some feminine, heterosexual female fighters too. They have a number of very butch Brazilian gals though.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1406374581326299136?s=20

    Replies: @El Dato, @additionalMike, @Inselaffen, @nobodyofnowhere

    When watching female MMA, pre-fight, you can often pick the winner just by her appearance and build. The least feminine fighter will usually prevail.

  57. @Anon
    At the risk of doxing myself, I played high school football with Nassib.

    As far as I can recall, he made just one start on defense in his high school career, filling in for an injured player in the last game of the season his senior year. He recorded 3 sacks in an upset of one of the state’s major powerhouse schools.

    Perhaps the coaches thought there was something “off” about him. He was skinny then, but still 6’5” or 6’6”, quick and strong — if not “weight-room” strong. At that point, his brother was the star QB for Syracuse. I think his kindly demeanor and lack of eye-popping bench-press numbers turned our (rather thick-skulled) coaches against him.

    His girlfriend at the time was very hot.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Desiderius, @Bugg

    Thanks.

    Fascinating stuff.

    • Replies: @I, Libertine
    @Steve Sailer

    More evidence, as if any were needed, that Wikipedia is organized horse manure.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Nassib#Early_years

  58. Golf is perhaps the worst sport of all .

    Where are the great pink-panted gay golfers embracing their manly male caddies when they win majors? No there is always a blond woman with a baby picked out by the TV cameras and stepping forward on the 18th green to embrace the sweaty winner.

    This has to stop. There is an easy solution. Allow gay golfers to play with handicaps, and/or play off the ladies tees, and give them a few Mulligans. This would make the game so much more inclusive.

  59. @Steve Sailer
    @Mr. Anon

    We don't have a name for the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones, but highly heterosexual and drives young women wild.

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Abe, @Hapalong Cassidy, @peterike, @Rockford Tyson, @Rex Little

    We don’t have a name for the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones, but highly heterosexual and drives young women wild.

    The late, great Peter Steele- of 90’s tongue-in-cheek goth metal band TYPE O NEGATIVE- would have crunched them all for snacks in a Carpathian Minute. While never of Daltrey or Morrison-level musical talent (let alone of a Mercury or a Plant) I think this dude- freakishly tall at 6’5”+ and looking like Dr. Frankenstein assembled him from the remains of 1 1/2 Fabio’s, probably sets the bar for rock star looks.

    He died early (of a heart condition, not AIDS) but certainly cleaned up with the chicks during his short stint on earth. And ironic, funny, sophisticated, and not-at-all-full of itself pop culture- of which TYPE O NEGATIVE was just a minor exemplar back then- seemed like our birthright in the 90’s- oh what has been lost! For example, while Tarantino has always been a foul, twisted little racial cuck (just look at the wet-eyed excitement with which he lays out the gruesome fate of Zed the hillbilly pawn shop rapist in PULP FICTION) remember when Travolta accidentally shoots his black teen accomplice in that same flick? The ensuing heated and incredibly callous (and hilarious on account of this very callousness) debate between him and Sam Jackson over what to do now that their car is soaked in this “dead n*ggers brains” is almost certainly the cinematic zenith (even if mostly ironically) of “black lives don’t matter!”

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Abe


    this dude- freakishly tall at 6’5”+
     
    Was there ever a rocker taller than Long John Baldry at 6' 7"? An early out gay, too, who lent his name to Elton John.


    https://images.app.goo.gl/uJoTaL57uKYNogp27
  60. @Whereismyhandle
    There are a couple major MMA fighters who could be gay (I follow the sport closely).

    Nobody coming out soon and probably nobody ever from Brazil or Russia (both produce a ton of fighters). Fighters come from rough areas of Brazil and Russia, not the politically correct class.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @gent

    There is an MMA to gay porn pipeline.

    • Replies: @Stebbing Heuer
    @gent

    Honestly that looks like a line that would appear on 4chan LOL

    Replies: @gent

  61. @El Dato
    @Mike Tre

    Excited Tintin is excited.

    This just in:

    ‘I’m so proud’: Biden says children are ‘seeing themselves in a new light’ after women’s football star reveals transgender switch


    US president Joe Biden has enthusiastically backed Japan international and US National Women's Soccer League star Kumi Yokoyama, who has said that her girlfriend encouraged her to find "courage" to come out as a transgender man.

    The 43-cap midfielder described how she had breast tissue removed around 20 years ago, confiding in Yuki Nagasato, a striker who is the first female to play for the first team of a Japanese men's club, in a video interview.

    Yokoyama said her time in the US and previous spell in Germany, where she played for Frankfurt, had made her feel more comfortable about disclosing her gender change.
     

    Okay.

    Apparently this is inspiring and big.

    https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1407506870181453824

    "What do you want to when you grow up, son?"

    "I want to be an astronaut!"

    "Why not take inspiration in something closer to home? Like... a woman?"

    At that moment, son was enlightened.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Triteleia Laxa, @c matt

    Why is the elderly President so excited to promote transgenders?

    Does he have something he’d like to disclose to us?

    • Replies: @njguy73
    @Steve Sailer

    Who ever heard of a career politician kissing up to a fringe group?

    , @Desiderius
    @Steve Sailer

    People like progress.

    Lemons lemonade.

    , @Two plus two is never four
    @Steve Sailer

    He'll get another chance to say what he really wants to say soon enough, when Gavin Hubbard snatches (no pun, honest) the gold in the women's weightlifting event in the Olympics.

    , @peterike
    @Steve Sailer


    Why is the elderly President so excited to promote transgenders? Does he have something he’d like to disclose to us?
     
    No, because Biden doesn't write his tweets, and he probably doesn't even read them or have any idea how his handlers are using him.
    , @Truth
    @Steve Sailer


    Why is the elderly President so excited to promote transgenders?

    Does he have something he’d like to disclose to us?
     
    (...sigh).
  62. @Steve Sailer
    @Triteleia Laxa

    As I wrote in 1994:

    "A warm Saturday afternoon in late May brings all of Chicago to the lakefront. In the Wrigleyville section of Lincoln Park, softball teams with names like “We Are Everywhere” and “The 10 Percenters” compete with an intensity that could shame the Cubs. Girded for battle with sliding pads, batting gloves, and taped ankles, the short-haired women slash extra-base hits, turn the double play, and hit the cutoff woman with a practiced efficiency that arouses admiring shouts from the women spectators.

    "Meanwhile, on a grassy lakeside bluff a few blocks to the south, the men of the New Town neighborhood bask, golden, in the sun. If ever a rogue urge to strike a ball with a stick is felt by any of the elegantly sprawled multitude, it is quickly subdued. This absence of athletic strife is certainly not the result of any lack of muscle tone: many have clearly spent the dark months in thrall to SoloFlex and StairMaster. But now, the sun is shining and the men are content for their sculpted bodies to be rather than to do."

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/why-lesbians-arent-gay/

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Bardon Kaldian, @Triteleia Laxa, @Alden, @Reg Cæsar

    That’s great writing, but I haven’t noticed gay men being particularly comfortable with just “being”. The culture seems hyperactive to me. I’ve also found that most I’ve met, as individuals, would benefit greatly from sitting still and breathing for a few minutes.

    I wonder if, given your comparison of TV famous stars, both sportsmen and musicians, who were in areas where being “outed” would hurt their careers, therefore had a lot less casual sex? Liberace did not have to worry about this, nor would many theatre actors, fashion designers or intellectuals, but, other than Rock Hudson, doesn’t your observation also apply to Hollywood stars?

    I’ve looked up and found that 1/15 gay men in the US had died of AIDS by 1995. Yet I can only find one actor who I’d heard of. Can we really suppose that gay men are just naturally repelled by being movie stars? I could even find one tennis player, Arthur Ashe, and there are a lot fewer tennis players who are that type of famous.

    My perception of past attitudes to homosexuality is that it was usually privately accepted and tolerated, but publically made taboo. Politics, often the language of the public sphere, allows people’s sadism out, as some “reasoned” excuse can always be made up. Private life, with its sense of connection and understanding, makes this excuse-making much harder.

    This is important for your thesis, since it would likely mean that gay men, in the pre-LGBTQ past, would avoid public roles and/or avoid behaviour, like risky sex, which would out them in those roles. Dancers and figure skaters were not really famous. People might recognise them, but not like they would sports or Hollywood stars.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Triteleia Laxa


    I’ve looked up and found that 1/15 gay men in the US had died of AIDS by 1995. Yet I can only find one actor who I’d heard of. Can we really suppose that gay men are just naturally repelled by being movie stars? I could even find one tennis player, Arthur Ashe, and there are a lot fewer tennis players who are that type of famous.
     
    I don't know about American actors, but the roster of famous male British actors who had been arrested for dalliances with men is long and distinguished. Charles Laughton, Alec Guinness, etc.

    My perception of past attitudes to homosexuality is that it was usually privately accepted and tolerated, but publically made taboo. Politics, often the language of the public sphere, allows people’s sadism out, as some “reasoned” excuse can always be made up. Private life, with its sense of connection and understanding, makes this excuse-making much harder.
     
    I don't know if "accepted" is the correct term - I just think that the concept of a "private life" has been utterly undone in the past few decades. If you managed to keep your private affairs private, and didn't make them the business of the whole world, you were likely to be left unmolested.

    Even implausible denial was possible - i.e. Paul Lynde - he was rather flamboyant and campy but he never acknowledged being a homosexual so he was generally tolerated.

    Replies: @Feryl

    , @gandydancer
    @Triteleia Laxa


    ...other than Rock Hudson, doesn’t your observation also apply to Hollywood stars?
     
    Weren't Cary Grant and Randolph Scott supposed to be a couple?
  63. @El Dato
    @Mike Tre

    Excited Tintin is excited.

    This just in:

    ‘I’m so proud’: Biden says children are ‘seeing themselves in a new light’ after women’s football star reveals transgender switch


    US president Joe Biden has enthusiastically backed Japan international and US National Women's Soccer League star Kumi Yokoyama, who has said that her girlfriend encouraged her to find "courage" to come out as a transgender man.

    The 43-cap midfielder described how she had breast tissue removed around 20 years ago, confiding in Yuki Nagasato, a striker who is the first female to play for the first team of a Japanese men's club, in a video interview.

    Yokoyama said her time in the US and previous spell in Germany, where she played for Frankfurt, had made her feel more comfortable about disclosing her gender change.
     

    Okay.

    Apparently this is inspiring and big.

    https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1407506870181453824

    "What do you want to when you grow up, son?"

    "I want to be an astronaut!"

    "Why not take inspiration in something closer to home? Like... a woman?"

    At that moment, son was enlightened.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Triteleia Laxa, @c matt

    Biden is such a credulous fuddy duddy. Two irrelevant athletes saying something about themselves is not changing anyone’s life.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Triteleia Laxa

    I don't think Joe Biden has much agency at this point.

    Replies: @Flip, @very old statistician

  64. @Lockean Proviso
    Tim Richmond, NASCAR driver, died of AIDS in 1989. His infection has widely been attributed to heterosexual promiscuity, but it can't be known for certain. His dad was a welder who got wealthy by inventing a machine for underground tunneling and pipe laying, so the family became wealthy. Maybe there was a nouveau riche complete lack of restraint as opportunities presented themselves for Tim to lay a lot of pipe as a hotshot and genuinely talented driver.

    https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/-/5-1103948/

    Replies: @Frau Katze, @mmack, @Corn

    Apparently AIDS doesn’t transmit easily from women to men.

    But a single shoot-up of a drug using a needle already AIDS-contaminated would most likely give you AIDS. It could have been a single experiment. It only takes once.

    This was not known in the early day of AIDS.

    • Replies: @james wilson
    @Frau Katze

    All sexually trasmitted HIV is through anal intercourse. One assumes it would transmit far more readily male to female, but perhaps not entirely--the CDC was silent on that. Blacks engage in exponentially more cabbose plugging than other races, in the West or in Africa. Even then, the actual infection rate from an infected party to the uninfected is 2%, the exact same rate in dirty needles. The CDC has known this since the late 80's.

  65. @Dave Pinsen
    @Mr. Anon

    Dan Hartman wrote a perfect, Motown-style pop song for the soundtrack of Streets of Fire.

    https://youtu.be/621Nk3Ubz4A

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @duncsbaby

    I always get Eddie and the Cruisers and Streets of Fire mixed up, maybe because it’s the same guy – Michael Paré – playing the lead in each and they came out within a year of each other and were both about ca. 1960 rock and roll.

    Or maybe I’m confused about that, too.

  66. @Steve Sailer
    @Mr. Anon

    We don't have a name for the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones, but highly heterosexual and drives young women wild.

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Abe, @Hapalong Cassidy, @peterike, @Rockford Tyson, @Rex Little

    Both opera and rock music seem to value tenors over baritones and basses when it comes to fame and fortune. The most famous baritone rock singer was likely Jim Morrison. And I can’t think of a popular bass singer in rock music. Barry White? The guy from Crash Test Dummies? As far as opera, it seems like all of the famous ones are tenor, although there are plenty of great roles written for baritones and basses, like the title character and the Commendatore, respectively, in “Don Giovanni”.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    LOL Elvis Presley was a baritone - even more famous than Jim Morrison!

  67. @Jim Christian
    The Patriots gave a tryout to Michael Sams, a bono linebacker or some such a couple of years back, likely a favor to Goodell. Kid didn't make it, he was in the final cut to 53 that year, 2018, a Super Bowl year. Belichick does a lot of favors, like hiring EEOC QB candidate Cam Newton, because the NFL didn't need another washed up black QB running around claiming the 80% black NFL is racist. Getting so black QBs resist retirement as much as street blacks resist arrest.

    Replies: @Sick of Orcs, @I, Libertine, @Half Canadian

    My favorite Newton move of 2020 was that quick pass he’d make to would-be receivers ten to fifteen yards to his left or right that would land at their feet. Comedy gold.

    • Agree: Jim Christian
  68. @Steve Sailer
    @El Dato

    Why is the elderly President so excited to promote transgenders?

    Does he have something he'd like to disclose to us?

    Replies: @njguy73, @Desiderius, @Two plus two is never four, @peterike, @Truth

    Who ever heard of a career politician kissing up to a fringe group?

  69. I’ve known several openly gay men during my life, most of whom were the stereotypical non-athletic effeminate types, but the one I knew the best back in college – the guy that my mind immediately goes to when I picture a “gay man” – was an uber-masculine bear who LOVED watching sports and playing sports.

    He played on our intramural softball team and frequently attended Red Sox and Patriots games (back before the Patriots were good) and frequently could be found at the local sports bar in Harvard Square. He was a “normal” 20 something college student except he also had a lot of close female friends and he would often brag about how gay he was (“I’ll give you the best blowjob you’ve ever had” was a frequent boast of his) and relish making straight guys squirm. I was one of those who squirmed quite a bit at first but later came to like him personally, even if I wasn’t gay myself and really didn’t care for the gay braggadocio.

    Later in life, before he unfriended me over my politics, we were Facebook friends and he was always posting pictures of his participation in (and apparent governance of) the “Boston Gay Men’s Flag Football League”

    Incidentally, he also was one if the first men to get “married” in Massachusetts when it was legalized for same sex couples, like literally one of the first ten to be issued licenses, and, not surprisingly, he got a gay “divorce” a couple of years later. He has since moved on to shacking up with a twink Canadian flight attendant and posting pictures of the cavorting online, but since we are no longer friends, perhaps that has ended, too. He also owned a house in Provincetown the last I had heard, of which he was very proud.

  70. Wait a minute, Layshia Clarendon has come out as a trans man and is still playing for the WNBA? Wtf. What about the Japanese trans man mentioned in the comments? Surely they don’t get to take testosterone while playing? So now women athletes get to compete with XY men and trans men. What a world.

  71. “the first player in major league history to come out to his teammates ”

    To come out or come on to his teammates? That would explain the ostracization.

  72. It’s a silly comparison – Lesbians are vastly overrepresented at high level women’s sports relative to their proportion of the population. The U.S. women’s soccer team literally had an engaged couple of female players on its roster. It’s part of what makes women’s sports so ridiculous – imagine if there were credible rumors that LeBron and KD were dating one another during a playoff series in which their respective teams played one another.

    My guess is that women’s basketball is the most disproportionate of the women’s sports routinely forced on us – you can get pictures of the prominent players and they near universally have “masculine” digit ratios. The longer ring fingers (and the neurological connections which come with it) are likely very advantageous in shooting a basketball accurately.

    I’d also wager that because physical competition and domination creates surges of testosterone – while high muscle/low bodyfat ratios probably also suppresses the production of estrogen and increases testosterone – girls playing competitive sports through adolescence may be altering their natural hormonal state to a more masculine disposition. Add the social element and emotional bonding of girl’s sports teams, and I’d guess that competitive sports influences girls’ sexuality towards the homosexual end of the spectrum. Your grandmother would be dismissed out of hand for positing that girls doing butch things and hanging around other butch girls just might make them butch.

    • Replies: @Elli
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    Chicken or egg? Does hard training increase testosterone, or does naturally high testosterone in a girl make her more competitive and give her a physical advantage in team sports and fighting sports? My own guess is the latter.

    I don't think gymnasts run to lesbianism, and they train as hard as anyone, albeit on calorie restriction. Runners? Swimmers?

    And then, does high testosterone cause a lesbian tendancy in the brain or do masculinized features and body type lead to male rejection and lesbianism as a fallback?

    Or would a masculine woman need a man to be hyper ultra masculine?

    Replies: @res

  73. @rebel yell
    Think of how much better the national dialogue would be if more than one view were presented.
    Half of the NY Times article would blame systemic homophobia for the lack of gay male athletes, and the other half of the article would argue that sports are masculine activities that naturally draw heterosexual males.
    Half of a NY Times article would be head scratching about why the murder rates have skyrocketed, and the other half of the article would present Sailerian arguments about black crime rates.
    Let the reader decide.
    How refreshing it would be to the intellect to hear a debate, to hear contending arguments.
    Instead we get dull propaganda, propaganda, propaganda...

    Replies: @photondancer, @Desiderius

    That’s what happens when an institution evolves over the centuries as single-sex then you change that piece suddenly.

  74. Maybe it inhibited gays not only from coming out but also from going into sports?

    Sailerquote alert. Put it in the book.

  75. @Triteleia Laxa
    @Steve Sailer

    That's great writing, but I haven't noticed gay men being particularly comfortable with just "being". The culture seems hyperactive to me. I've also found that most I've met, as individuals, would benefit greatly from sitting still and breathing for a few minutes.

    I wonder if, given your comparison of TV famous stars, both sportsmen and musicians, who were in areas where being "outed" would hurt their careers, therefore had a lot less casual sex? Liberace did not have to worry about this, nor would many theatre actors, fashion designers or intellectuals, but, other than Rock Hudson, doesn't your observation also apply to Hollywood stars?

    I've looked up and found that 1/15 gay men in the US had died of AIDS by 1995. Yet I can only find one actor who I'd heard of. Can we really suppose that gay men are just naturally repelled by being movie stars? I could even find one tennis player, Arthur Ashe, and there are a lot fewer tennis players who are that type of famous.

    My perception of past attitudes to homosexuality is that it was usually privately accepted and tolerated, but publically made taboo. Politics, often the language of the public sphere, allows people's sadism out, as some "reasoned" excuse can always be made up. Private life, with its sense of connection and understanding, makes this excuse-making much harder.

    This is important for your thesis, since it would likely mean that gay men, in the pre-LGBTQ past, would avoid public roles and/or avoid behaviour, like risky sex, which would out them in those roles. Dancers and figure skaters were not really famous. People might recognise them, but not like they would sports or Hollywood stars.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home), @gandydancer

    I’ve looked up and found that 1/15 gay men in the US had died of AIDS by 1995. Yet I can only find one actor who I’d heard of. Can we really suppose that gay men are just naturally repelled by being movie stars? I could even find one tennis player, Arthur Ashe, and there are a lot fewer tennis players who are that type of famous.

    I don’t know about American actors, but the roster of famous male British actors who had been arrested for dalliances with men is long and distinguished. Charles Laughton, Alec Guinness, etc.

    My perception of past attitudes to homosexuality is that it was usually privately accepted and tolerated, but publically made taboo. Politics, often the language of the public sphere, allows people’s sadism out, as some “reasoned” excuse can always be made up. Private life, with its sense of connection and understanding, makes this excuse-making much harder.

    I don’t know if “accepted” is the correct term – I just think that the concept of a “private life” has been utterly undone in the past few decades. If you managed to keep your private affairs private, and didn’t make them the business of the whole world, you were likely to be left unmolested.

    Even implausible denial was possible – i.e. Paul Lynde – he was rather flamboyant and campy but he never acknowledged being a homosexual so he was generally tolerated.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    There is a rather disquieting culture of on the down low (including pederasty) among the British upper class. But it does seem as if periods (and cultures) of high inequality develop a tendency for furtive perversion; note how many gays live in Washington D.C., and how many gay Republicans were yanked out of the closet in the 90's and 2000's.

    WRT Paul Lynde, he was highly articulate and charming enough that people looked the other way. But America was still largely opposed to homosexuality on principle, after all the social contract hadn't completely dissolved.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  76. @Steve Sailer
    @El Dato

    Why is the elderly President so excited to promote transgenders?

    Does he have something he'd like to disclose to us?

    Replies: @njguy73, @Desiderius, @Two plus two is never four, @peterike, @Truth

    People like progress.

    Lemons lemonade.

  77. Interestingly, rock stars were not hard hit: after Freddie Mercury, the most famous victim was … who?

    Tom Fogerty of Creedence Clearwater Revival died of AIDS. He got it from blood they gave him during surgery.

  78. @Triteleia Laxa
    @El Dato

    Biden is such a credulous fuddy duddy. Two irrelevant athletes saying something about themselves is not changing anyone's life.

    Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic

    I don’t think Joe Biden has much agency at this point.

    • Replies: @Flip
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    I don't know who is calling the shots with such a hard core leftist agenda now, but I don't think it is Biden.

    , @very old statistician
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    Well said.

  79. @Lockean Proviso
    Tim Richmond, NASCAR driver, died of AIDS in 1989. His infection has widely been attributed to heterosexual promiscuity, but it can't be known for certain. His dad was a welder who got wealthy by inventing a machine for underground tunneling and pipe laying, so the family became wealthy. Maybe there was a nouveau riche complete lack of restraint as opportunities presented themselves for Tim to lay a lot of pipe as a hotshot and genuinely talented driver.

    https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/-/5-1103948/

    Replies: @Frau Katze, @mmack, @Corn

    Tim Richmond was the prototypical Open Wheel to NASCAR racer. Rookie of the Year for the 1980 Indianapolis 500, in NASCAR by 1981. Should have been a warning to CART, which started bringing in more foreign born drivers over the 1980s-90s.

    I remember the rumors around Tim’s illness in the late 1980s. I also recall rumors of NASCAR altering drug test results to keep him out of racing. It was a shame since he had telegenic looks and a freakish ability as a driver. Even more amazing since he didn’t start racing until his early 20s, positively ancient for a racing driver these days.

  80. This is easy. Lesbians are masculine women, thus they like sports and dominate in them.

    But the gay male sissy-fag thing is kind of simple-minded. There is a non-trivial, hard to categorize subset of men who have zero erotic attraction to women and who don’t fall into the pink category. Wiser societies than ours have figured out ways to accommodate these men. We haven’t, so Nassib is “gay.”

    PS Michael Bailey has now conceded that some men really are bi. A very famous frontman was probably bisexual.

  81. First only gay NFL player. First box checked.

    Next 2 on checklist —

    First only gay NFL player of color.

    First only gay NFL quarterback /i> of color.

  82. In locker rooms, on fields and on courts, male athletes are taught to keep their sexual proclivities to themselves.

    Fixed it.

    Emmanuel Morgan pushes a false narrative. LGBLT seems to be a disease that causes people to publicly – tastelessly – announce their sexual proclivities.

    There a 645 players in Major League Baseball. I know NONE of their sexual interests. I prefer to keep it that way.

  83. @Lockean Proviso
    Tim Richmond, NASCAR driver, died of AIDS in 1989. His infection has widely been attributed to heterosexual promiscuity, but it can't be known for certain. His dad was a welder who got wealthy by inventing a machine for underground tunneling and pipe laying, so the family became wealthy. Maybe there was a nouveau riche complete lack of restraint as opportunities presented themselves for Tim to lay a lot of pipe as a hotshot and genuinely talented driver.

    https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/-/5-1103948/

    Replies: @Frau Katze, @mmack, @Corn

    I watched a documentary about Tim Richmond once, probably the same one mentioned in the discussion on your link. I recall one NASCAR doctor saying when word broke Richmond had AIDS alot of doctors and pit crew bosses on the circuit started giving little sermons on the dangers of promiscuity and groupies. This doc said his office filled up with sheepish drivers and pit crewmen wanting AIDS tests.

  84. @Steve Sailer
    @Tono Bungay

    As do the highest paid 300 pound opera singers. Similarly, violin soloists make more money than double bassists and guitarists make more money than bassists.

    Replies: @stillCARealist, @JMcG

    High voices are louder than low voices. Obviously.

    I used to be an alto, and can still sing at those pitches, but now that I sing all the time I’m a soprano. Regular practice singing fully has made me understand how much the higher notes fit my natural range. And I can be heard clearly at treble C (one octave above middle C).

    However, rock singers are mostly rock shouters. good, clear singing doesn’t work for rock songs. For some reason, without that straining sound there’s no emotion or passion to convey and break a girl’s heart.

  85. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    Thanks.

    Fascinating stuff.

    Replies: @I, Libertine

    More evidence, as if any were needed, that Wikipedia is organized horse manure.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Nassib#Early_years

  86. @purpleslog
    @McBride3030

    There are lots of unsolved murders that the please think could be the work I’ve never discovered serial killers. Maybe the Asian serial killers are really smart and never get caught.

    Replies: @McBride3030

    I believe there’s just one Jewish serial killer also—Joel Rifkin. David Berkowitz was raised in a secular Jewish home but he was actually ethnically Italian. I think.

    • Replies: @Flip
    @McBride3030

    Half Jewish, half Italian according to Wikipedia.

  87. Why do male-to-female transexuals get to compete in the women’s division (e.g. Laurel Hubbard, the record smashing New Zealand Olympian powerlifter) and female-to-male transexuals ALSO get to compete in the women’s division (e.g. Layshia Clarendon and other cosmetic mastectomy recipients)? You’d think that if these aggro dykes truly identified as men that they’d want to compete against the men.

    • Agree: Red Pill Angel
  88. List of French Olympic athletes that have just come out, I wonder if there will be any surprises…

    First picture is a male figure skater, then a female basketball player and female judo wrestler.

    https://www.outsports.com/olympics/2021/6/21/22543207/french-lgbtq-athletes-coming-out-olympics

    One rugby player, I wonder if he’s a hyper-masculine even for rugby black guy and… yes. This is why black guys are so paranoid about it and down-low guys.

    The US might also join New Zealand with a mtf trans athlete in freestyle BMX of all things. The athlete in question has suggested they might burn the US flag if they podium.

    https://www.rt.com/sport/527215-trans-bmx-burn-flag-olympics/

    And in case you haven’t heard, there will be an almost certain trans winner of the gold for female weight lifting, one ‘Laurel Hubbard’. His advantage is insane and completely out of the range of female athletes. He’s in the middle of the male range and completely dominates female contests.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57549653

    It’s going to be such a farce it will have to drive a serious backlash.

    • Replies: @Altai
    @Altai

    My mistake, that is only in NZ, apparently at the olympics he'll likely only get 5th since other countries have better women's programmes. (And maybe laxer attitudes towards steroid use)

    , @El Dato
    @Altai

    We were promised a revealing UFO dump in June.

    Instead, we get a LBGTQWERTY+ dump.

    Damn!

  89. Slyvester and his collaborator Patrick Cowley were two of the earlier victims of AIDS. Jermaine Stewart is another, though he went much later. A lot of secondary acts from the 70s/80s, guys who charted but could never fill an arena by themselves, were hit by AIDS. Maybe reaching the upper echelon is easier with a heterosexual brain?

    My uncle died of AIDS in the early 90s. His life was tragic, and I’m saddened I was never able to get to know him let alone help. His introduction to the homosexual lifestyle began when he was, not shockingly, an altar boy. My father has never forgiven the church.

    The variety of factors others have listed here ensures male sports remain heterosexual dominant and female sports homosexual dominant. Male homosexual athletes who progress to the pros are probably unusually gifted/genetically blessed. Otherwise, the motivation to grind through and put the work in dries up quickly.

  90. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    In your article, "Why Lesbians Aren't Gay", you basically made mention that the natural order of things are inverted. In other words, some lesbians would tend to have higher levels of testosterone than most gays. With higher levels of testosterone equals more desire to do masculine things, including playing masculine sports, as opposed to feminine, lower testosterone sports (e.g. dancing).

    How many great lesbian ballet dancers are there compared to gay dancers?

    Also, as the natural order of things is inverted, gays take on more feminine traits similar to straight women, and this would even include desires. Most straight women, then as now, have no desire to participate in masculine sports and this is similar to most gays.

    Perhaps one exception is that there are some gay men who do participate in men's bodybuilding, which tends to have a bit of a homoerotic edge to it. Perhaps this is the one sport that would tend to attract both gays and lesbians.

    In the Current Year, the one personality trait that is shared by lesbians and gays is the ability to whine and paint oneself as a victim "Life isn't fair, the straight homophobic society is so against me and my community, etc".


    "Rock stars tend to be the not terribly masculine pretty boys who figure out it’s a good way to get girls."

    Rock stars tend to be straight enough and have more than enough testosterone who like girls, period. Gays would tend to be the rock stars' set designers (for their tours). Or in some cases, their songwriters.


    "Maybe it inhibited gays not only from coming out but also from going into sports?"

    The personality of gays resembles that of straight women, and most straight women have no desire to participate in masculine sports.

    Touching on a minor point that was made in your article, and that would be that perhaps lesbians as a whole aren't as consumed, obsessed, driven by having as much sex as possible with many people as possible. AIDS didn't decimate the number of lesbians in the US. And lesbians today aren't really known for being terribly promiscuous (especially compared to straight women, who today would tend to be more promiscuous than their parents generation). Compared to many gays, lesbians simply aren't having multiple hookups in a single year, or doing multiple people in a single encounter. That kind of thing only exists in an adult studio's fantasy (which tends to cater to straight males' fantasies).

    But it hardly exists in real life. Compared to the most promiscuous gays, lesbians are celibate. Which would tend to lead to the question: Perhaps most lesbians simply don't like masculine men in general, because they are seen as a rival for straight women's affections? (especially if the total number of gays in the US is greater than lesbians)

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Dissident, @Bardon Kaldian, @Mike Tre

    perhaps lesbians as a whole aren’t as consumed, obsessed, driven by having as much sex as possible with many people as possible.

    “Perhaps”? Would one expect females to even have the same libido as males, let alone to pursue it as actively or promiscuously? Homosexual females are, after all, females, are they not?

    AIDS didn’t decimate the number of lesbians in the US. And lesbians today aren’t really known for being terribly promiscuous

    The inordinately high rates of sexually-transmitted infections and diseases[1] among homosexually active males[2] is the result not only of an inordinate degree of promiscuity but also of the anatomical and physiological realities of using the ano-rectal cavity as a substitute for the female copulatory one. An exacerbating factor is that HIV is spread primarily from the penetrative partner to the receptive one. Since females, unlike males, are limited exclusively to the latter (in any applicable act), heterosexual buggery (much less frequent or prevalent to begin with) does not transmit HIV at as high a rate as the homo variety does.

    [1] Includes many others in addition to HIV-AIDS.
    [2]What the CDC calls MSM– Men who have sex with other men.

  91. @Anon
    At the risk of doxing myself, I played high school football with Nassib.

    As far as I can recall, he made just one start on defense in his high school career, filling in for an injured player in the last game of the season his senior year. He recorded 3 sacks in an upset of one of the state’s major powerhouse schools.

    Perhaps the coaches thought there was something “off” about him. He was skinny then, but still 6’5” or 6’6”, quick and strong — if not “weight-room” strong. At that point, his brother was the star QB for Syracuse. I think his kindly demeanor and lack of eye-popping bench-press numbers turned our (rather thick-skulled) coaches against him.

    His girlfriend at the time was very hot.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Desiderius, @Bugg

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Desiderius

    Supposedly all Jimmy's lovers were White pretty boys.

    , @Triteleia Laxa
    @Desiderius

    Are drag queens particularly prone to antisocial behaviour?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @gandydancer
    @Desiderius

    Valoric Fire: " O.J. Simpson's father, Jimmy Lee Simpson, was a well-known drag queen in the Bay Area."

    Homo, yes, drag queen... I don't think so. At least that's what a quick look into this seems to show. That would be SF's idea of a human interest story, and I lived in the area with no hint of this. (OJ was a couple years older and grew up a mile or two south of me, on the other side of Potrero Hill.)

  92. @Altai
    List of French Olympic athletes that have just come out, I wonder if there will be any surprises...

    First picture is a male figure skater, then a female basketball player and female judo wrestler.

    https://www.outsports.com/olympics/2021/6/21/22543207/french-lgbtq-athletes-coming-out-olympics

    One rugby player, I wonder if he's a hyper-masculine even for rugby black guy and... yes. This is why black guys are so paranoid about it and down-low guys.

    The US might also join New Zealand with a mtf trans athlete in freestyle BMX of all things. The athlete in question has suggested they might burn the US flag if they podium.

    https://www.rt.com/sport/527215-trans-bmx-burn-flag-olympics/

    And in case you haven't heard, there will be an almost certain trans winner of the gold for female weight lifting, one 'Laurel Hubbard'. His advantage is insane and completely out of the range of female athletes. He's in the middle of the male range and completely dominates female contests.

    https://i.ibb.co/mzjpPFC/LH-WL.png

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57549653

    It's going to be such a farce it will have to drive a serious backlash.

    Replies: @Altai, @El Dato

    My mistake, that is only in NZ, apparently at the olympics he’ll likely only get 5th since other countries have better women’s programmes. (And maybe laxer attitudes towards steroid use)

  93. @Steve Sailer
    @Tono Bungay

    As do the highest paid 300 pound opera singers. Similarly, violin soloists make more money than double bassists and guitarists make more money than bassists.

    Replies: @stillCARealist, @JMcG

    Now that’s interesting. How about 300 lb male opera singers?

  94. @Anon
    At the risk of doxing myself, I played high school football with Nassib.

    As far as I can recall, he made just one start on defense in his high school career, filling in for an injured player in the last game of the season his senior year. He recorded 3 sacks in an upset of one of the state’s major powerhouse schools.

    Perhaps the coaches thought there was something “off” about him. He was skinny then, but still 6’5” or 6’6”, quick and strong — if not “weight-room” strong. At that point, his brother was the star QB for Syracuse. I think his kindly demeanor and lack of eye-popping bench-press numbers turned our (rather thick-skulled) coaches against him.

    His girlfriend at the time was very hot.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Desiderius, @Bugg

    Bigger is better. My son dominated a kid in high school both on the DL and OL in each of the games they played over the last 2 seasons. But the kid was 6’5″. Difference between my 6’2″ kid going to D2 and then Wall Street and that kid going to a major D1 school and then being a borderline NFL prospect. His HS OL coach had roughly the same kind of experience; OL coach was 6 foot HS “Lineman of the Year”. But on the same HS team was Oday Aboushi, who is 6’5″, went to UVA and has carved out a well-paying NFL OL career.

    None of the above are gay.

  95. @Steve Sailer
    @El Dato

    Why is the elderly President so excited to promote transgenders?

    Does he have something he'd like to disclose to us?

    Replies: @njguy73, @Desiderius, @Two plus two is never four, @peterike, @Truth

    He’ll get another chance to say what he really wants to say soon enough, when Gavin Hubbard snatches (no pun, honest) the gold in the women’s weightlifting event in the Olympics.

  96. @Jim Christian
    The Patriots gave a tryout to Michael Sams, a bono linebacker or some such a couple of years back, likely a favor to Goodell. Kid didn't make it, he was in the final cut to 53 that year, 2018, a Super Bowl year. Belichick does a lot of favors, like hiring EEOC QB candidate Cam Newton, because the NFL didn't need another washed up black QB running around claiming the 80% black NFL is racist. Getting so black QBs resist retirement as much as street blacks resist arrest.

    Replies: @Sick of Orcs, @I, Libertine, @Half Canadian

    I seem to remember that Michael Sam was invited to play for a CFL team, but he declined or was cut.

    • Replies: @Unladen Swallow
    @Half Canadian

    Both the Rams and Cowboys had him for camp before, but he didn't make the final cuts for either. I guess one year in the CFL for the Montreal Alouettes was the sum of his pro football career, although it seems as though he played very little. He apparently quit football afterwards for psychological reasons.

  97. @black sea

    In locker rooms, on fields and on courts, male athletes are taught to embrace heteronormative standards of masculinity.
     
    I would have thought that the "playing with the boys" scene in Top Gun would have shattered that stereotype.

    Replies: @Forbes

    In all circumstances, heteronormative is the masculine standard of behavior, i.e. normal behavior. Homosexuality is the exception, or outlier to normative behavior.

    In locker rooms, on fields and on courts, male athletes are taught to embrace heteronormative standards of masculinity.

    The statement infers an inversion of cause and effect–approaching the fantasy of not just gender, but behavior as “assigned” at birth. E.g., normative masculine instinctual behavior includes competition, competitive team and individual sport, and athletic performance–much of it evolved from the warrior ethos, as centuries of history document/demonstrate.

    But, taking the premise further–if heteronormative behavior is “taught,” then wouldn’t the same teaching apply to homosexual behavior? Therefore, homosexuality could be cured/fixed/altered by teaching/training/therapy.

    Seems an argument against interest in the current LBGTQWERTY dogma.

  98. @Steve Sailer
    @Mr. Anon

    We don't have a name for the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones, but highly heterosexual and drives young women wild.

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Abe, @Hapalong Cassidy, @peterike, @Rockford Tyson, @Rex Little

    We don’t have a name for the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones, but highly heterosexual and drives young women wild.

    Yeah we do. The name is “rock star.”

    • Agree: black sea
  99. @Steve Sailer
    @El Dato

    Why is the elderly President so excited to promote transgenders?

    Does he have something he'd like to disclose to us?

    Replies: @njguy73, @Desiderius, @Two plus two is never four, @peterike, @Truth

    Why is the elderly President so excited to promote transgenders? Does he have something he’d like to disclose to us?

    No, because Biden doesn’t write his tweets, and he probably doesn’t even read them or have any idea how his handlers are using him.

    • Agree: Ron Mexico, Abe
    • Thanks: Gordo
  100. @G. Poulin
    @Reg Cæsar

    That was Tom Fogerty's official story, but I have my doubts.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    That was Tom Fogerty’s official story, but I have my doubts.

    Understandable. But I have my doubts about your doubts.

    “Fogerty is survived by his wife, Tricia, six children and four brothers.”

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-09-15-mn-214-story.html

    Perhaps you confuse him with Dan Hartman, the true talent behind “the Edgar Winter Group featuring Rick Derringer”.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Hartman#Personal_life_and_death

    • Replies: @G. Poulin
    @Reg Cæsar

    Well, the four brothers doesn't tell us much. But the wife and six children, yes, that would tell against my doubts. Doubts withdrawn, awaiting further data.

  101. @Steve Sailer
    @Triteleia Laxa

    As I wrote in 1994:

    "A warm Saturday afternoon in late May brings all of Chicago to the lakefront. In the Wrigleyville section of Lincoln Park, softball teams with names like “We Are Everywhere” and “The 10 Percenters” compete with an intensity that could shame the Cubs. Girded for battle with sliding pads, batting gloves, and taped ankles, the short-haired women slash extra-base hits, turn the double play, and hit the cutoff woman with a practiced efficiency that arouses admiring shouts from the women spectators.

    "Meanwhile, on a grassy lakeside bluff a few blocks to the south, the men of the New Town neighborhood bask, golden, in the sun. If ever a rogue urge to strike a ball with a stick is felt by any of the elegantly sprawled multitude, it is quickly subdued. This absence of athletic strife is certainly not the result of any lack of muscle tone: many have clearly spent the dark months in thrall to SoloFlex and StairMaster. But now, the sun is shining and the men are content for their sculpted bodies to be rather than to do."

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/why-lesbians-arent-gay/

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Bardon Kaldian, @Triteleia Laxa, @Alden, @Reg Cæsar

    There were a couple of Will and Grace episodes. Will and the other gay guy joined a sports team because the uniforms were so cute. There was a big controversy over lemon VS marigold yellow piping on the uniforms And brought tapenade and other trendy expensive treats for a snack.

    Tapenade was a clever joke. It’s all the bits and pieces of olives flushed out of the machines at cleaning time and collected in like a sieve. Then mashed up with garlic and sold for a very high price to pretentious Whole Foods shoppers.

    Tapenade is the equivalent of MacDonalds hash browns. What’s left after the factory machinery chops up potatoes.

  102. @Desiderius
    @Anon

    https://twitter.com/GorhamHarland/status/1407410591514439680?s=20

    Replies: @Alden, @Triteleia Laxa, @gandydancer

    Supposedly all Jimmy’s lovers were White pretty boys.

  103. @Altai
    List of French Olympic athletes that have just come out, I wonder if there will be any surprises...

    First picture is a male figure skater, then a female basketball player and female judo wrestler.

    https://www.outsports.com/olympics/2021/6/21/22543207/french-lgbtq-athletes-coming-out-olympics

    One rugby player, I wonder if he's a hyper-masculine even for rugby black guy and... yes. This is why black guys are so paranoid about it and down-low guys.

    The US might also join New Zealand with a mtf trans athlete in freestyle BMX of all things. The athlete in question has suggested they might burn the US flag if they podium.

    https://www.rt.com/sport/527215-trans-bmx-burn-flag-olympics/

    And in case you haven't heard, there will be an almost certain trans winner of the gold for female weight lifting, one 'Laurel Hubbard'. His advantage is insane and completely out of the range of female athletes. He's in the middle of the male range and completely dominates female contests.

    https://i.ibb.co/mzjpPFC/LH-WL.png

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57549653

    It's going to be such a farce it will have to drive a serious backlash.

    Replies: @Altai, @El Dato

    We were promised a revealing UFO dump in June.

    Instead, we get a LBGTQWERTY+ dump.

    Damn!

  104. @Desiderius
    @Anon

    https://twitter.com/GorhamHarland/status/1407410591514439680?s=20

    Replies: @Alden, @Triteleia Laxa, @gandydancer

    Are drag queens particularly prone to antisocial behaviour?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Triteleia Laxa


    Are drag queens particularly prone to antisocial behaviour?
     
    That's like asking if tattoos increase the risk of skin damage.

    Or

    Joel : Is there any risk of brain damage?

    Howard : Well, technically speaking, the operation is brain damage...


    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0338013/characters/nm0929489
     
  105. @Sick of Orcs
    @Jim Christian

    Thank you, Jim, was beginning to fear I was the only one who remembered Michael Sam.

    Draft pick or not they labeled Sam 'the first gay NFL player.'

    But now this new guy is the first NFL poo-pusher.

    (((fake news))) logically can't get their gay propaganda straight.

    Replies: @Morton's toes

    He got drafted and he stayed on the roster until the final cut.

    In other words he was the closest thing they had. There also was at least one gay guy who came out of the closet after he retired.

    Also somebody wrote it was the Patriots who had Sam. Not. It was Rams.

    • Replies: @Jim Christian
    @Morton's toes

    Wrong. The patriots carried him through summer camp. He was undrafted to that point. He did check off two oppression points, give him that. Bono and black.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @Morton's toes

  106. @Dave Pinsen

    … In the Ultimate Fighting Championship, the highest-caliber mixed martial arts promotion, the best female fighter of all time, Amanda Nunes, is an out lesbian.

    Wow. What were the odds of that?
     
    Ha, yeah, the surprise is that they have some feminine, heterosexual female fighters too. They have a number of very butch Brazilian gals though.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1406374581326299136?s=20

    Replies: @El Dato, @additionalMike, @Inselaffen, @nobodyofnowhere

    a large number of the ‘female’ MMA fighters from Brazil are strikingly masculine, compared to those from the entire rest of the world. I gather rampant steroid taking is pretty common in Brazil, evidently for females too, but I’m not sure that explains the whole of it…

    another unsurprising trend in female MMA fighters I’ve noted is being prior victims of abuse (either as a child or domestic/partner abuse).

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Inselaffen

    My guess is Brazil has some mixed people whose set of attributes is unaesthetic but auspicious for MMA: robustness, strength, pain tolerance, endurance, etc.

  107. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    In your article, "Why Lesbians Aren't Gay", you basically made mention that the natural order of things are inverted. In other words, some lesbians would tend to have higher levels of testosterone than most gays. With higher levels of testosterone equals more desire to do masculine things, including playing masculine sports, as opposed to feminine, lower testosterone sports (e.g. dancing).

    How many great lesbian ballet dancers are there compared to gay dancers?

    Also, as the natural order of things is inverted, gays take on more feminine traits similar to straight women, and this would even include desires. Most straight women, then as now, have no desire to participate in masculine sports and this is similar to most gays.

    Perhaps one exception is that there are some gay men who do participate in men's bodybuilding, which tends to have a bit of a homoerotic edge to it. Perhaps this is the one sport that would tend to attract both gays and lesbians.

    In the Current Year, the one personality trait that is shared by lesbians and gays is the ability to whine and paint oneself as a victim "Life isn't fair, the straight homophobic society is so against me and my community, etc".


    "Rock stars tend to be the not terribly masculine pretty boys who figure out it’s a good way to get girls."

    Rock stars tend to be straight enough and have more than enough testosterone who like girls, period. Gays would tend to be the rock stars' set designers (for their tours). Or in some cases, their songwriters.


    "Maybe it inhibited gays not only from coming out but also from going into sports?"

    The personality of gays resembles that of straight women, and most straight women have no desire to participate in masculine sports.

    Touching on a minor point that was made in your article, and that would be that perhaps lesbians as a whole aren't as consumed, obsessed, driven by having as much sex as possible with many people as possible. AIDS didn't decimate the number of lesbians in the US. And lesbians today aren't really known for being terribly promiscuous (especially compared to straight women, who today would tend to be more promiscuous than their parents generation). Compared to many gays, lesbians simply aren't having multiple hookups in a single year, or doing multiple people in a single encounter. That kind of thing only exists in an adult studio's fantasy (which tends to cater to straight males' fantasies).

    But it hardly exists in real life. Compared to the most promiscuous gays, lesbians are celibate. Which would tend to lead to the question: Perhaps most lesbians simply don't like masculine men in general, because they are seen as a rival for straight women's affections? (especially if the total number of gays in the US is greater than lesbians)

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Dissident, @Bardon Kaldian, @Mike Tre

    Don’t forget there is a streak of uber-macho culture among homos. Historically, many highly efficient military units & even wider troops were gays/pederasts, in Greece, Ottoman Empire (Janissaries) & many prominent military or adventurous men were gays (Kitchener, R.F. Burton, Rhodes etc.).

    Gays can be, simplistically, divided into two categories: hyper-masculine & effeminate (with, of course, many nuances). It isn’t for nothing that many gays display quasi-Nazi fixation on leather & other iconographic emblems.

  108. @Tono Bungay
    @Steve Sailer

    There's another characteristic of almost all rock singers: they have high-pitched voices.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Reg Cæsar

    There’s another characteristic of almost all rock singers: they have high-pitched voices.

    One striking exception is this bloke named Beverly:

    “Boris the Spider” is also quite deep in the chorus:

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @cthulhu
    @Reg Cæsar

    Bev Bevan, drummer extraordinaire for the Move and ELO, sang in that basso profundo voice on a couple of Move songs; “Ben Crawley Steel Company” is another one.

    John Entwistle (aka “Thunderfingers”), Who bassist extraordinaire, typically sang in a classic rock tenor, but he did the basso profundo voice on the chorus to “Boris the Spider” and, most notably, the spoken inserts in the famous and brilliant “Live at Leeds” cover of Eddie Cochran’s classic teenage alienation anthem, “Summertime Blues”. The Who were generally very underrated vocally; Daltrey is pretty much recognized as one of the best singers of the rock era, but both Townshend and Entwistle were terrific vocalists in their own right, and in its prime, the band could and did out-sing just about anybody else, including bands such as the Byrds, Hollies, and CSN(Y). Listen to anything from “Who’s Next” or “Quadrophenia” for ample evidence…

  109. Like straight men, gays are first and foremost attracted to a hot body. So it doesn’t matter if the hot body is on a twink nothing waiter and the fat rich old sports jock is hitting on them, the gay will prefer the twink waiter.

    Like straight women, lesbians are first and foremost attracted to who is the alpha in a situations, which sports success determines on a microscale.

  110. @Steve Sailer
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    "How many great lesbian ballet dancers are there compared to gay dancers?"

    The NYT just ran an article about that:

    Lesbians in Ballet: ‘Has Anyone Like Me Ever Walked These Halls?’

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/01/arts/dance/lesbians-in-ballet.html?searchResultPosition=1

    In other words, there aren't many lesbian ballerinas. Darren Aronofsky lied to you in "Black Swan."

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Ironically, Natalie Portman also played a lesbian character in “V is for Vendetta”, one of the more overrated, overwrought, silly pieces of melodrama of the last decade and a half. Spoiler alert: The Nazis are at fault. Who would’ve guessed?

  111. @Triteleia Laxa
    @Desiderius

    Are drag queens particularly prone to antisocial behaviour?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Are drag queens particularly prone to antisocial behaviour?

    That’s like asking if tattoos increase the risk of skin damage.

    Or

    Joel : Is there any risk of brain damage?

    Howard : Well, technically speaking, the operation is brain damage…

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0338013/characters/nm0929489

  112. @J.Ross
    Fred Schneider lives, by the way. He lives in part because he remains wary of pools.

    Replies: @I, Libertine

    Fred Schneider is alive and gay, alright. But Steve was referring to Ricky Wilson, their original lead guitar player.

    P.S. Internet comment sections are haunted by scolds who can’t let even an implied error of fact go by without correction. I suppose I’m now one of them.

    • Replies: @petit bourgeois
    @I, Libertine

    I guess I am one of those scolds. Ricky Wilson was not exactly a "lead" guitar player. He often played the bass lines and melodic bits at the same time using only four strings. His style was so unique that I think people are still trying to figure out how many different ways he tuned his guitar.

    Also, he played Mosrite guitars (made in Bakersfield!) just like The Ventures and Johnny Ramone.

    I get the J.Ross joke about Fred living AIDS free because he avoids pools, because this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n_Tg8iHwZ8&ab_channel=retroj25

    John Lennon was rumored to have come out of retirement after hearing "Rock Lobster." What a great band.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Reg Cæsar

    , @J.Ross
    @I, Libertine

    Knock me over with a feather, I had thought the lead guitar player was the straightest looking guy there.

  113. @Frau Katze
    @Lockean Proviso

    Apparently AIDS doesn’t transmit easily from women to men.

    But a single shoot-up of a drug using a needle already AIDS-contaminated would most likely give you AIDS. It could have been a single experiment. It only takes once.

    This was not known in the early day of AIDS.

    Replies: @james wilson

    All sexually trasmitted HIV is through anal intercourse. One assumes it would transmit far more readily male to female, but perhaps not entirely–the CDC was silent on that. Blacks engage in exponentially more cabbose plugging than other races, in the West or in Africa. Even then, the actual infection rate from an infected party to the uninfected is 2%, the exact same rate in dirty needles. The CDC has known this since the late 80’s.

  114. Steve, did plunge for distance lean more straight or queer?

    Diving is pretty gay but plunging seems pretty hetero ie., muff diving vs. taking the plunge (marriage)

  115. Anon[183] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bardon Kaldian
    @Tono Bungay

    Straight women may turn out lesbian at some point of their lives.

    Men are more honest & stable- you're either straight or gay, frequently a suppressed gay, but you know who you are.

    Women are fickle. A perfectly hetero female, not suppressing anything, may go lesbian in her 40s.

    https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Lesbian+after+marriage%3A+Jennifer+Baumgardner+takes+a+look+at+the...-a0169412893


    DEBORAH ABBOTT WAS SOMEWHAT HAPPILY MARRIED to a nice man with whom she'd created two adorable sons before she realized that the intense rapport with her best friend, Rachel, was the first step toward love and "unbelievably thrilling" sex with women. After separating from her husband, she'd often laugh at her dueling identities. "I would be at the PTA meeting and people would assume that I was heterosexual," says Abbott. "And then I'd be dancing at a club and people would be shocked to learn I had an ex-husband and kids!"


    ABBOTT CAN GIGGLE NOW, but when she began looking for resources for "married lesbians" back in the early 1980s, she found nothing and felt lonely. So she started her own support group in Santa Cruz, Calif., called From Wedded Wife to Lesbian Life, which would also become the name of her 1995 book published by Crossing Press. "I have women who've come for years," says Abbott, currently the director of the Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender Resource Center at the University of California, Santa Cruz. "We are a community." And the newbies? "They look around the room and weep with relief," she adds. "They say, 'Everyone looks so normal!'"

    Abbott's group sees about 100 women a year who pretty much thought they were straight through years of marriage and child rearing, only to have a change of heart later in life. Call them LAMs--or lesbians after marriage: These are the women who have tied the knot, procreated, and, once the children are out of the home or more independent, found love in the arms of a woman.
     
    Different brains.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anon

    Female sexuality is likely more fluid than males’ but bi men do exist. Bi males obviously have more incentive to stay closeted than bi females do. In decades past, some fully gay men LARPed as bi to soften the coming out process but those days are pretty much over. It’s much easier to be openly gay than it was 30 years ago but it’s almost as hard to be openly bi as a male as it was then, and much harder than being openly gay.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Anon

    Men, of course, can be bi. But- they know they're bi from the get-go.

    Women, on the other hand, not being bi- just go lesbian. Just like that. No prior notice.

  116. @Steve Sailer
    @Mr. Anon

    We don't have a name for the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones, but highly heterosexual and drives young women wild.

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Abe, @Hapalong Cassidy, @peterike, @Rockford Tyson, @Rex Little

    They are not that heterosexual, though. David Bowie, Steven Tyler, etc, all had sexual experiences with men by their own admission…

    • Replies: @Feryl
    @Rockford Tyson

    You have to wonder how high or drunk they were to descend to that level. The debauchery of the 60's generation.

    Replies: @Rockford Tyson

  117. @Mike Tre
    @Steve Sailer

    THAT IS BESIDE THE POINT, CIS MAN!

    https://rightedition.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/femenist.png

    Replies: @El Dato, @anon

    Yes! There Is Aways More Work To Be Done!

    MOAR. TO. BE. DONE!

  118. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    In your article, "Why Lesbians Aren't Gay", you basically made mention that the natural order of things are inverted. In other words, some lesbians would tend to have higher levels of testosterone than most gays. With higher levels of testosterone equals more desire to do masculine things, including playing masculine sports, as opposed to feminine, lower testosterone sports (e.g. dancing).

    How many great lesbian ballet dancers are there compared to gay dancers?

    Also, as the natural order of things is inverted, gays take on more feminine traits similar to straight women, and this would even include desires. Most straight women, then as now, have no desire to participate in masculine sports and this is similar to most gays.

    Perhaps one exception is that there are some gay men who do participate in men's bodybuilding, which tends to have a bit of a homoerotic edge to it. Perhaps this is the one sport that would tend to attract both gays and lesbians.

    In the Current Year, the one personality trait that is shared by lesbians and gays is the ability to whine and paint oneself as a victim "Life isn't fair, the straight homophobic society is so against me and my community, etc".


    "Rock stars tend to be the not terribly masculine pretty boys who figure out it’s a good way to get girls."

    Rock stars tend to be straight enough and have more than enough testosterone who like girls, period. Gays would tend to be the rock stars' set designers (for their tours). Or in some cases, their songwriters.


    "Maybe it inhibited gays not only from coming out but also from going into sports?"

    The personality of gays resembles that of straight women, and most straight women have no desire to participate in masculine sports.

    Touching on a minor point that was made in your article, and that would be that perhaps lesbians as a whole aren't as consumed, obsessed, driven by having as much sex as possible with many people as possible. AIDS didn't decimate the number of lesbians in the US. And lesbians today aren't really known for being terribly promiscuous (especially compared to straight women, who today would tend to be more promiscuous than their parents generation). Compared to many gays, lesbians simply aren't having multiple hookups in a single year, or doing multiple people in a single encounter. That kind of thing only exists in an adult studio's fantasy (which tends to cater to straight males' fantasies).

    But it hardly exists in real life. Compared to the most promiscuous gays, lesbians are celibate. Which would tend to lead to the question: Perhaps most lesbians simply don't like masculine men in general, because they are seen as a rival for straight women's affections? (especially if the total number of gays in the US is greater than lesbians)

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Dissident, @Bardon Kaldian, @Mike Tre

    “With higher levels of testosterone equals more desire to do masculine things, including playing masculine sports, as opposed to feminine, lower testosterone sports (e.g. dancing).”

    Homosexual men still have higher T than their lesbian counterparts. And it seems clear homosexual men may prefer activities that are deemed “less masculine” but I expect they still go out and participate in the brutal and aggressive act of buggery. There might not be anything less feminine than two men engaged in that act.

    Don’t get me wrong, I am mostly in agreement with your position, but like I say with Steve’s high T transsexual theory, there are many more factors at work than just testosterone. It’s not a binary issue.

  119. @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    It's a silly comparison - Lesbians are vastly overrepresented at high level women's sports relative to their proportion of the population. The U.S. women's soccer team literally had an engaged couple of female players on its roster. It's part of what makes women's sports so ridiculous - imagine if there were credible rumors that LeBron and KD were dating one another during a playoff series in which their respective teams played one another.

    My guess is that women's basketball is the most disproportionate of the women's sports routinely forced on us - you can get pictures of the prominent players and they near universally have "masculine" digit ratios. The longer ring fingers (and the neurological connections which come with it) are likely very advantageous in shooting a basketball accurately.

    I'd also wager that because physical competition and domination creates surges of testosterone - while high muscle/low bodyfat ratios probably also suppresses the production of estrogen and increases testosterone - girls playing competitive sports through adolescence may be altering their natural hormonal state to a more masculine disposition. Add the social element and emotional bonding of girl's sports teams, and I'd guess that competitive sports influences girls' sexuality towards the homosexual end of the spectrum. Your grandmother would be dismissed out of hand for positing that girls doing butch things and hanging around other butch girls just might make them butch.

    Replies: @Elli

    Chicken or egg? Does hard training increase testosterone, or does naturally high testosterone in a girl make her more competitive and give her a physical advantage in team sports and fighting sports? My own guess is the latter.

    I don’t think gymnasts run to lesbianism, and they train as hard as anyone, albeit on calorie restriction. Runners? Swimmers?

    And then, does high testosterone cause a lesbian tendancy in the brain or do masculinized features and body type lead to male rejection and lesbianism as a fallback?

    Or would a masculine woman need a man to be hyper ultra masculine?

    • Replies: @res
    @Elli


    Chicken or egg?
     
    Or virtuous/vicious cycle? Which is my interpretation. I would guess high T (your favored cause) is the usual initiator, but consider the possibility that the two potential causes reinforce each other.

    Gymnasts are an interesting case. Here is some discussion on Reddit:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Gymnastics/comments/d0ww9s/does_anyone_else_wonder_about_the_percentage_of/

    I would lean towards explanations involving focus on femininity in judging and tendency to be short, but that does not really seem sufficient to me.

    Your other questions are interesting. Hopefully someone will engage with them.
  120. @Steve Sailer
    @El Dato

    Why is the elderly President so excited to promote transgenders?

    Does he have something he'd like to disclose to us?

    Replies: @njguy73, @Desiderius, @Two plus two is never four, @peterike, @Truth

    Why is the elderly President so excited to promote transgenders?

    Does he have something he’d like to disclose to us?

    (…sigh).

  121. @I, Libertine
    @J.Ross

    Fred Schneider is alive and gay, alright. But Steve was referring to Ricky Wilson, their original lead guitar player.

    P.S. Internet comment sections are haunted by scolds who can't let even an implied error of fact go by without correction. I suppose I'm now one of them.

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @J.Ross

    I guess I am one of those scolds. Ricky Wilson was not exactly a “lead” guitar player. He often played the bass lines and melodic bits at the same time using only four strings. His style was so unique that I think people are still trying to figure out how many different ways he tuned his guitar.

    Also, he played Mosrite guitars (made in Bakersfield!) just like The Ventures and Johnny Ramone.

    I get the J.Ross joke about Fred living AIDS free because he avoids pools, because this:

    John Lennon was rumored to have come out of retirement after hearing “Rock Lobster.” What a great band.

    • Agree: I, Libertine
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @petit bourgeois

    Of course you are correct, sir, and thank you for the apt video, which has that glorious moment where Kate realizes that Fred is both high and messing up his lines, I mean his lyrics (apparently his lines were uninterrupted).

    Replies: @JR Ewing

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @petit bourgeois


    I get the J.Ross joke about Fred living AIDS free because he avoids pools, because this:
     
    Wasn't Greg Louganis's excuse that chlorine kills viruses? You won't get germs fron drinking a friend's urine, because it's sterile. But the ammonia that makes it so probably isn't good for you, either.
  122. @Reg Cæsar
    @G. Poulin


    That was Tom Fogerty’s official story, but I have my doubts.
     
    Understandable. But I have my doubts about your doubts.


    "Fogerty is survived by his wife, Tricia, six children and four brothers."

    https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-09-15-mn-214-story.html


    Perhaps you confuse him with Dan Hartman, the true talent behind "the Edgar Winter Group featuring Rick Derringer".

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Hartman#Personal_life_and_death

    Replies: @G. Poulin

    Well, the four brothers doesn’t tell us much. But the wife and six children, yes, that would tell against my doubts. Doubts withdrawn, awaiting further data.

  123. @Anon
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Female sexuality is likely more fluid than males' but bi men do exist. Bi males obviously have more incentive to stay closeted than bi females do. In decades past, some fully gay men LARPed as bi to soften the coming out process but those days are pretty much over. It's much easier to be openly gay than it was 30 years ago but it's almost as hard to be openly bi as a male as it was then, and much harder than being openly gay.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Men, of course, can be bi. But- they know they’re bi from the get-go.

    Women, on the other hand, not being bi- just go lesbian. Just like that. No prior notice.

  124. @Steve Sailer
    @Triteleia Laxa

    As I wrote in 1994:

    "A warm Saturday afternoon in late May brings all of Chicago to the lakefront. In the Wrigleyville section of Lincoln Park, softball teams with names like “We Are Everywhere” and “The 10 Percenters” compete with an intensity that could shame the Cubs. Girded for battle with sliding pads, batting gloves, and taped ankles, the short-haired women slash extra-base hits, turn the double play, and hit the cutoff woman with a practiced efficiency that arouses admiring shouts from the women spectators.

    "Meanwhile, on a grassy lakeside bluff a few blocks to the south, the men of the New Town neighborhood bask, golden, in the sun. If ever a rogue urge to strike a ball with a stick is felt by any of the elegantly sprawled multitude, it is quickly subdued. This absence of athletic strife is certainly not the result of any lack of muscle tone: many have clearly spent the dark months in thrall to SoloFlex and StairMaster. But now, the sun is shining and the men are content for their sculpted bodies to be rather than to do."

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/why-lesbians-arent-gay/

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Bardon Kaldian, @Triteleia Laxa, @Alden, @Reg Cæsar

    Meanwhile, on a grassy lakeside bluff a few blocks to the south, the men of the New Town neighborhood bask, golden, in the sun. If ever a rogue urge to strike a ball with a stick is felt by any of the elegantly sprawled multitude, it is quickly subdued.

    Stereotypes are valid, or they wouldn’t survive. But the exceptions are often entertaining, too.

    The Regular Guys:
    They follow sports, wear flannel shirts, smoke, drink, belch, and make crude jokes. Oh, one other thing. They’re gay.

  125. @Abe
    @Steve Sailer


    We don’t have a name for the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones, but highly heterosexual and drives young women wild.
     
    The late, great Peter Steele- of 90’s tongue-in-cheek goth metal band TYPE O NEGATIVE- would have crunched them all for snacks in a Carpathian Minute. While never of Daltrey or Morrison-level musical talent (let alone of a Mercury or a Plant) I think this dude- freakishly tall at 6’5”+ and looking like Dr. Frankenstein assembled him from the remains of 1 1/2 Fabio’s, probably sets the bar for rock star looks.

    He died early (of a heart condition, not AIDS) but certainly cleaned up with the chicks during his short stint on earth. And ironic, funny, sophisticated, and not-at-all-full of itself pop culture- of which TYPE O NEGATIVE was just a minor exemplar back then- seemed like our birthright in the 90’s- oh what has been lost! For example, while Tarantino has always been a foul, twisted little racial cuck (just look at the wet-eyed excitement with which he lays out the gruesome fate of Zed the hillbilly pawn shop rapist in PULP FICTION) remember when Travolta accidentally shoots his black teen accomplice in that same flick? The ensuing heated and incredibly callous (and hilarious on account of this very callousness) debate between him and Sam Jackson over what to do now that their car is soaked in this “dead n*ggers brains” is almost certainly the cinematic zenith (even if mostly ironically) of “black lives don’t matter!”

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DBWsyBftlMw

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    this dude- freakishly tall at 6’5”+

    Was there ever a rocker taller than Long John Baldry at 6′ 7″? An early out gay, too, who lent his name to Elton John.

    https://images.app.goo.gl/uJoTaL57uKYNogp27

  126. @Mr. Anon

    Interestingly, rock stars were not hard hit: after Freddie Mercury, the most famous victim was … who? The guy in the B-52s? Rock stars tend to be the not terribly masculine pretty boys who figure out it’s a good way to get girls.
     
    Dan Hartman.

    Also, one of the musicians in Level 42.

    So - yeah - not that famous.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Dave Pinsen, @Feryl

    Robbin Crosby of Ratt died of AIDS. Definitely IV drug related, seeing as how Crosby was by all accounts straight. It is interesting that in light of how many rock stars were blitzed on drugs in the 70’s-90’s, just how few ended up with AIDS. You must really have to be a hardcore degenerate IV drug user to get AIDS.

  127. @Rockford Tyson
    @Steve Sailer

    They are not that heterosexual, though. David Bowie, Steven Tyler, etc, all had sexual experiences with men by their own admission...

    Replies: @Feryl

    You have to wonder how high or drunk they were to descend to that level. The debauchery of the 60’s generation.

    • Replies: @Rockford Tyson
    @Feryl

    Or maybe they just wanted to and enjoy both genders? Men are not either gay or straight like some people believe. Even Dr.Bailey, who used to claim that men are either gay or straight, re-did his experiment with a different cohort of men who claimed to be bisexual and found out that most of them did show a bisexual arousal pattern(they got erections while watching both gay porn and lesbian porn).

  128. @Alec Leamas (working from home)
    @Triteleia Laxa


    I’ve looked up and found that 1/15 gay men in the US had died of AIDS by 1995. Yet I can only find one actor who I’d heard of. Can we really suppose that gay men are just naturally repelled by being movie stars? I could even find one tennis player, Arthur Ashe, and there are a lot fewer tennis players who are that type of famous.
     
    I don't know about American actors, but the roster of famous male British actors who had been arrested for dalliances with men is long and distinguished. Charles Laughton, Alec Guinness, etc.

    My perception of past attitudes to homosexuality is that it was usually privately accepted and tolerated, but publically made taboo. Politics, often the language of the public sphere, allows people’s sadism out, as some “reasoned” excuse can always be made up. Private life, with its sense of connection and understanding, makes this excuse-making much harder.
     
    I don't know if "accepted" is the correct term - I just think that the concept of a "private life" has been utterly undone in the past few decades. If you managed to keep your private affairs private, and didn't make them the business of the whole world, you were likely to be left unmolested.

    Even implausible denial was possible - i.e. Paul Lynde - he was rather flamboyant and campy but he never acknowledged being a homosexual so he was generally tolerated.

    Replies: @Feryl

    There is a rather disquieting culture of on the down low (including pederasty) among the British upper class. But it does seem as if periods (and cultures) of high inequality develop a tendency for furtive perversion; note how many gays live in Washington D.C., and how many gay Republicans were yanked out of the closet in the 90’s and 2000’s.

    WRT Paul Lynde, he was highly articulate and charming enough that people looked the other way. But America was still largely opposed to homosexuality on principle, after all the social contract hadn’t completely dissolved.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Feryl

    I once told a guy that the reason Weimar Berlin was an island of "tolerance" of homosexuality was simply because the world had ended (locally) and the money was worthless, so many entirely heterosexual people were horrifyingly desperate. He found this to be completely shocking. He honestly thought that the natural proportion of homosexuals in the population was what he saw on HBO (about a third), that this is suppressed by the devout Orthodox Christians who control the media, government, fabric patterns, and business world, and that leftist legal innovation in Weimar had liberated that suppressed 33⅓ of the German-speaking peoples.

    Replies: @Feryl

  129. @I, Libertine
    @J.Ross

    Fred Schneider is alive and gay, alright. But Steve was referring to Ricky Wilson, their original lead guitar player.

    P.S. Internet comment sections are haunted by scolds who can't let even an implied error of fact go by without correction. I suppose I'm now one of them.

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @J.Ross

    Knock me over with a feather, I had thought the lead guitar player was the straightest looking guy there.

  130. @Feryl
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    There is a rather disquieting culture of on the down low (including pederasty) among the British upper class. But it does seem as if periods (and cultures) of high inequality develop a tendency for furtive perversion; note how many gays live in Washington D.C., and how many gay Republicans were yanked out of the closet in the 90's and 2000's.

    WRT Paul Lynde, he was highly articulate and charming enough that people looked the other way. But America was still largely opposed to homosexuality on principle, after all the social contract hadn't completely dissolved.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    I once told a guy that the reason Weimar Berlin was an island of “tolerance” of homosexuality was simply because the world had ended (locally) and the money was worthless, so many entirely heterosexual people were horrifyingly desperate. He found this to be completely shocking. He honestly thought that the natural proportion of homosexuals in the population was what he saw on HBO (about a third), that this is suppressed by the devout Orthodox Christians who control the media, government, fabric patterns, and business world, and that leftist legal innovation in Weimar had liberated that suppressed 33⅓ of the German-speaking peoples.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    @J.Ross

    KkGuilded Age Western culture was actually quite libertine, then the early 20th century progressive era made strides at suppressing the most visible manifestations of decadence. In the 1920's and especially 30's there was a growing hunger to purify things.That shift also coincided with rising standards of living and a broad middle class.

    Per Peter Turchin, immiseration and elite dysfunction actually lead to deteriorating public morale and conduct standards, and improvements must be spear-headed by elites not mired in the advanced decay of the lower class., Which happened in the 20's and 30's....But when will it happen again?

  131. @petit bourgeois
    @I, Libertine

    I guess I am one of those scolds. Ricky Wilson was not exactly a "lead" guitar player. He often played the bass lines and melodic bits at the same time using only four strings. His style was so unique that I think people are still trying to figure out how many different ways he tuned his guitar.

    Also, he played Mosrite guitars (made in Bakersfield!) just like The Ventures and Johnny Ramone.

    I get the J.Ross joke about Fred living AIDS free because he avoids pools, because this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n_Tg8iHwZ8&ab_channel=retroj25

    John Lennon was rumored to have come out of retirement after hearing "Rock Lobster." What a great band.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Reg Cæsar

    Of course you are correct, sir, and thank you for the apt video, which has that glorious moment where Kate realizes that Fred is both high and messing up his lines, I mean his lyrics (apparently his lines were uninterrupted).

    • Replies: @JR Ewing
    @J.Ross

    I had to go back and watch again. Holy gamoly that's funny.

    (right at 2:35)

  132. @Feryl
    @Rockford Tyson

    You have to wonder how high or drunk they were to descend to that level. The debauchery of the 60's generation.

    Replies: @Rockford Tyson

    Or maybe they just wanted to and enjoy both genders? Men are not either gay or straight like some people believe. Even Dr.Bailey, who used to claim that men are either gay or straight, re-did his experiment with a different cohort of men who claimed to be bisexual and found out that most of them did show a bisexual arousal pattern(they got erections while watching both gay porn and lesbian porn).

  133. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Steve Sailer

    I worked with a couple (in both senses) of gay women who would go to watch rugby union games together. Rugby is a pretty male and macho sport, but they appreciated it. Most women at rugby games are there with a male.


    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51hH9zLd-+L._SX373_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    In the bad old pre-woke days, rugby players (and others) would sing "rugby songs", nearly all of which were highly obscene and sexist, as can be seen from this list of (slightly Americanised) titles.

    http://www.rugbysongs.net/DownloadRugby%20songs.htm

    Replies: @Flip

    “I used to work in Chicago at a department store…”

  134. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Triteleia Laxa

    I don't think Joe Biden has much agency at this point.

    Replies: @Flip, @very old statistician

    I don’t know who is calling the shots with such a hard core leftist agenda now, but I don’t think it is Biden.

  135. @McBride3030
    @purpleslog

    I believe there's just one Jewish serial killer also---Joel Rifkin. David Berkowitz was raised in a secular Jewish home but he was actually ethnically Italian. I think.

    Replies: @Flip

    Half Jewish, half Italian according to Wikipedia.

  136. @Reg Cæsar
    @Tono Bungay


    There’s another characteristic of almost all rock singers: they have high-pitched voices.
     
    One striking exception is this bloke named Beverly:


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G0cGNOaVNJk


    "Boris the Spider" is also quite deep in the chorus:



    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kS0xVTrUk7w

    Replies: @cthulhu

    Bev Bevan, drummer extraordinaire for the Move and ELO, sang in that basso profundo voice on a couple of Move songs; “Ben Crawley Steel Company” is another one.

    John Entwistle (aka “Thunderfingers”), Who bassist extraordinaire, typically sang in a classic rock tenor, but he did the basso profundo voice on the chorus to “Boris the Spider” and, most notably, the spoken inserts in the famous and brilliant “Live at Leeds” cover of Eddie Cochran’s classic teenage alienation anthem, “Summertime Blues”. The Who were generally very underrated vocally; Daltrey is pretty much recognized as one of the best singers of the rock era, but both Townshend and Entwistle were terrific vocalists in their own right, and in its prime, the band could and did out-sing just about anybody else, including bands such as the Byrds, Hollies, and CSN(Y). Listen to anything from “Who’s Next” or “Quadrophenia” for ample evidence…

  137. @Dave Pinsen

    … In the Ultimate Fighting Championship, the highest-caliber mixed martial arts promotion, the best female fighter of all time, Amanda Nunes, is an out lesbian.

    Wow. What were the odds of that?
     
    Ha, yeah, the surprise is that they have some feminine, heterosexual female fighters too. They have a number of very butch Brazilian gals though.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1406374581326299136?s=20

    Replies: @El Dato, @additionalMike, @Inselaffen, @nobodyofnowhere

    The biggest surprise is that one of the butchest Brazilian women, Cris Cyborg, is straight.

    • Agree: Ron Mexico
  138. @Hapalong Cassidy
    @Steve Sailer

    Both opera and rock music seem to value tenors over baritones and basses when it comes to fame and fortune. The most famous baritone rock singer was likely Jim Morrison. And I can’t think of a popular bass singer in rock music. Barry White? The guy from Crash Test Dummies? As far as opera, it seems like all of the famous ones are tenor, although there are plenty of great roles written for baritones and basses, like the title character and the Commendatore, respectively, in “Don Giovanni”.

    Replies: @Anon

    LOL Elvis Presley was a baritone – even more famous than Jim Morrison!

  139. @J.Ross
    @petit bourgeois

    Of course you are correct, sir, and thank you for the apt video, which has that glorious moment where Kate realizes that Fred is both high and messing up his lines, I mean his lyrics (apparently his lines were uninterrupted).

    Replies: @JR Ewing

    I had to go back and watch again. Holy gamoly that’s funny.

    (right at 2:35)

  140. @J.Ross
    @Feryl

    I once told a guy that the reason Weimar Berlin was an island of "tolerance" of homosexuality was simply because the world had ended (locally) and the money was worthless, so many entirely heterosexual people were horrifyingly desperate. He found this to be completely shocking. He honestly thought that the natural proportion of homosexuals in the population was what he saw on HBO (about a third), that this is suppressed by the devout Orthodox Christians who control the media, government, fabric patterns, and business world, and that leftist legal innovation in Weimar had liberated that suppressed 33⅓ of the German-speaking peoples.

    Replies: @Feryl

    KkGuilded Age Western culture was actually quite libertine, then the early 20th century progressive era made strides at suppressing the most visible manifestations of decadence. In the 1920’s and especially 30’s there was a growing hunger to purify things.That shift also coincided with rising standards of living and a broad middle class.

    Per Peter Turchin, immiseration and elite dysfunction actually lead to deteriorating public morale and conduct standards, and improvements must be spear-headed by elites not mired in the advanced decay of the lower class., Which happened in the 20’s and 30’s….But when will it happen again?

  141. @gent
    @Whereismyhandle

    There is an MMA to gay porn pipeline.

    Replies: @Stebbing Heuer

    Honestly that looks like a line that would appear on 4chan LOL

    • Replies: @gent
    @Stebbing Heuer

    Doesn't make it any less true. I can't exactly post links but it's not just an American thing.

  142. @McBride3030
    Radio sports talk show host Doug Gottlieb said a friend of his coaches in the WNBA and actually counted the number of lesbians on his team--60%. If gays or 2-3% of the population then there should be about a zero percent chance that any of 20 or so people would be gay?
    For example, Asians are 2-3% of the population but there's been only one Asian serial killer in the U.S. The sample size is so small for serial killers it's not going to reflect the racial composite of the U.S.

    Why didn't the author of the NYT article bother to think that maybe male athlete's brains are hyper-masculine as are there bodies obviously are? And likewise female brains are masculinized as their bodies are. If they are taller than average, more muscular than average, then their brains are likely to be more masculine as well.

    Replies: @purpleslog, @EdwardM, @gandydancer

    If gays are 2% of the population, then the probability of a group of 20 randomly-selected people including at least one gay is around 1-in-3.

    At 3% of the population, the probability increases to around 1-in-2.

    • Agree: gandydancer
  143. @Half Canadian
    @Jim Christian

    I seem to remember that Michael Sam was invited to play for a CFL team, but he declined or was cut.

    Replies: @Unladen Swallow

    Both the Rams and Cowboys had him for camp before, but he didn’t make the final cuts for either. I guess one year in the CFL for the Montreal Alouettes was the sum of his pro football career, although it seems as though he played very little. He apparently quit football afterwards for psychological reasons.

  144. @petit bourgeois
    @I, Libertine

    I guess I am one of those scolds. Ricky Wilson was not exactly a "lead" guitar player. He often played the bass lines and melodic bits at the same time using only four strings. His style was so unique that I think people are still trying to figure out how many different ways he tuned his guitar.

    Also, he played Mosrite guitars (made in Bakersfield!) just like The Ventures and Johnny Ramone.

    I get the J.Ross joke about Fred living AIDS free because he avoids pools, because this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n_Tg8iHwZ8&ab_channel=retroj25

    John Lennon was rumored to have come out of retirement after hearing "Rock Lobster." What a great band.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Reg Cæsar

    I get the J.Ross joke about Fred living AIDS free because he avoids pools, because this:

    Wasn’t Greg Louganis’s excuse that chlorine kills viruses? You won’t get germs fron drinking a friend’s urine, because it’s sterile. But the ammonia that makes it so probably isn’t good for you, either.

  145. @Morton's toes
    @Sick of Orcs

    He got drafted and he stayed on the roster until the final cut.

    In other words he was the closest thing they had. There also was at least one gay guy who came out of the closet after he retired.

    Also somebody wrote it was the Patriots who had Sam. Not. It was Rams.

    Replies: @Jim Christian

    Wrong. The patriots carried him through summer camp. He was undrafted to that point. He did check off two oppression points, give him that. Bono and black.

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    @Jim Christian

    Are you drunk?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Sam

    , @Morton's toes
    @Jim Christian

    Oh and by the way Michael Sam might have been the least jack ass public homo ever. He was not in the closet in college. All his teammates knew he was gay. He was SEC defensive player of the year and the national media never heard from anybody he was gay. It never was a national story until the combine and they had those stupid interviews like the one where the guy asked Dez Bryant if it was true his mother was a whore.

    He was a great college player but too small for NFL defensive line and too slow for NFL linebacker. The press made much more of a thing about his hobbies than he ever did. At least until the Rams cut him at the last day of training camp. I didn't follow him after so have no idea what happened then.

  146. @Jim Christian
    @Morton's toes

    Wrong. The patriots carried him through summer camp. He was undrafted to that point. He did check off two oppression points, give him that. Bono and black.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @Morton's toes

  147. @El Dato
    @Mike Tre

    Excited Tintin is excited.

    This just in:

    ‘I’m so proud’: Biden says children are ‘seeing themselves in a new light’ after women’s football star reveals transgender switch


    US president Joe Biden has enthusiastically backed Japan international and US National Women's Soccer League star Kumi Yokoyama, who has said that her girlfriend encouraged her to find "courage" to come out as a transgender man.

    The 43-cap midfielder described how she had breast tissue removed around 20 years ago, confiding in Yuki Nagasato, a striker who is the first female to play for the first team of a Japanese men's club, in a video interview.

    Yokoyama said her time in the US and previous spell in Germany, where she played for Frankfurt, had made her feel more comfortable about disclosing her gender change.
     

    Okay.

    Apparently this is inspiring and big.

    https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1407506870181453824

    "What do you want to when you grow up, son?"

    "I want to be an astronaut!"

    "Why not take inspiration in something closer to home? Like... a woman?"

    At that moment, son was enlightened.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Triteleia Laxa, @c matt

    So is Yokomama n/k/a Yokopapa no longer qualified to play in wymyn’s league?

  148. @Jim Christian
    @Morton's toes

    Wrong. The patriots carried him through summer camp. He was undrafted to that point. He did check off two oppression points, give him that. Bono and black.

    Replies: @Morton's toes, @Morton's toes

    Oh and by the way Michael Sam might have been the least jack ass public homo ever. He was not in the closet in college. All his teammates knew he was gay. He was SEC defensive player of the year and the national media never heard from anybody he was gay. It never was a national story until the combine and they had those stupid interviews like the one where the guy asked Dez Bryant if it was true his mother was a whore.

    He was a great college player but too small for NFL defensive line and too slow for NFL linebacker. The press made much more of a thing about his hobbies than he ever did. At least until the Rams cut him at the last day of training camp. I didn’t follow him after so have no idea what happened then.

  149. @Anon

    We can test whether there really are a lot of gay male jocks but they are just to oppressed to come out of the closet by looking at death rates from AIDS during the 1980s-90s.
     
    AIDS really shook loose a lot of interesting data. Philippe Rushton hilariously was able to verify his r/K theory claim that blacks have bigger dicks by using WHO country-by-country condom specifications released during the AIDS crisis.

    Replies: @very old statistician

    Boy are you gullible.

  150. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Triteleia Laxa

    I don't think Joe Biden has much agency at this point.

    Replies: @Flip, @very old statistician

    Well said.

  151. @Steve Sailer
    @Mr. Anon

    We don't have a name for the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones, but highly heterosexual and drives young women wild.

    Replies: @Tono Bungay, @Abe, @Hapalong Cassidy, @peterike, @Rockford Tyson, @Rex Little

    the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones

    And then there’s Phil Collins. . .

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Rex Little

    Phil Collins was a decent part-time actor in the 1980s (like on Miami Vice), but to this American he seemed so similar to Bob Hoskins, who was a great actor, that it was kind of pointless because everybody would go, "Phil's not bad, but imagine how awesome Hopkins would be in this role."

    Another weird Phil Collins doppelganger thing was that he sang just like his predecessor as frontman of Genesis, Peter Gabriel, who was more of the conventional arty rock star.

    Replies: @Morton's toes

  152. @Rex Little
    @Steve Sailer


    the type of guy who becomes a typical rock star: arty, not hugely masculine, skinny, high cheekbones
     
    And then there's Phil Collins. . .

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Phil Collins was a decent part-time actor in the 1980s (like on Miami Vice), but to this American he seemed so similar to Bob Hoskins, who was a great actor, that it was kind of pointless because everybody would go, “Phil’s not bad, but imagine how awesome Hopkins would be in this role.”

    Another weird Phil Collins doppelganger thing was that he sang just like his predecessor as frontman of Genesis, Peter Gabriel, who was more of the conventional arty rock star.

    • Replies: @Morton's toes
    @Steve Sailer

    Sacrilege.

    Peter Gabriel is a rock god and PG Genesis was a great band and PC Genesis was meh.

    I suppose he is over the hill now but Up is still damn good from 2002. Collins had been mailing it in for well over 15 years at that point. Apparently it isn't in print now but it sold over 400 thousand copies.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003YOXIUS/

  153. @Steve Sailer
    @Rex Little

    Phil Collins was a decent part-time actor in the 1980s (like on Miami Vice), but to this American he seemed so similar to Bob Hoskins, who was a great actor, that it was kind of pointless because everybody would go, "Phil's not bad, but imagine how awesome Hopkins would be in this role."

    Another weird Phil Collins doppelganger thing was that he sang just like his predecessor as frontman of Genesis, Peter Gabriel, who was more of the conventional arty rock star.

    Replies: @Morton's toes

    Sacrilege.

    Peter Gabriel is a rock god and PG Genesis was a great band and PC Genesis was meh.

    I suppose he is over the hill now but Up is still damn good from 2002. Collins had been mailing it in for well over 15 years at that point. Apparently it isn’t in print now but it sold over 400 thousand copies.

  154. @Dave Pinsen
    @Mr. Anon

    Dan Hartman wrote a perfect, Motown-style pop song for the soundtrack of Streets of Fire.

    https://youtu.be/621Nk3Ubz4A

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @duncsbaby

    Wow, I always liked that song. Never knew Dan Hartman died of AIDS or that he was gay. I see on wikipedia that he wrote “Free Ride” by the Edgar Winter Group.

  155. res says:
    @Elli
    @Alec Leamas (working from home)

    Chicken or egg? Does hard training increase testosterone, or does naturally high testosterone in a girl make her more competitive and give her a physical advantage in team sports and fighting sports? My own guess is the latter.

    I don't think gymnasts run to lesbianism, and they train as hard as anyone, albeit on calorie restriction. Runners? Swimmers?

    And then, does high testosterone cause a lesbian tendancy in the brain or do masculinized features and body type lead to male rejection and lesbianism as a fallback?

    Or would a masculine woman need a man to be hyper ultra masculine?

    Replies: @res

    Chicken or egg?

    Or virtuous/vicious cycle? Which is my interpretation. I would guess high T (your favored cause) is the usual initiator, but consider the possibility that the two potential causes reinforce each other.

    Gymnasts are an interesting case. Here is some discussion on Reddit:

    Does anyone else wonder about the percentage of LGBT+ women in NCAA? from Gymnastics

    I would lean towards explanations involving focus on femininity in judging and tendency to be short, but that does not really seem sufficient to me.

    Your other questions are interesting. Hopefully someone will engage with them.

  156. @Stebbing Heuer
    @gent

    Honestly that looks like a line that would appear on 4chan LOL

    Replies: @gent

    Doesn’t make it any less true. I can’t exactly post links but it’s not just an American thing.

  157. @Inselaffen
    @Dave Pinsen

    a large number of the 'female' MMA fighters from Brazil are strikingly masculine, compared to those from the entire rest of the world. I gather rampant steroid taking is pretty common in Brazil, evidently for females too, but I'm not sure that explains the whole of it...

    another unsurprising trend in female MMA fighters I've noted is being prior victims of abuse (either as a child or domestic/partner abuse).

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    My guess is Brazil has some mixed people whose set of attributes is unaesthetic but auspicious for MMA: robustness, strength, pain tolerance, endurance, etc.

  158. @McBride3030
    Radio sports talk show host Doug Gottlieb said a friend of his coaches in the WNBA and actually counted the number of lesbians on his team--60%. If gays or 2-3% of the population then there should be about a zero percent chance that any of 20 or so people would be gay?
    For example, Asians are 2-3% of the population but there's been only one Asian serial killer in the U.S. The sample size is so small for serial killers it's not going to reflect the racial composite of the U.S.

    Why didn't the author of the NYT article bother to think that maybe male athlete's brains are hyper-masculine as are there bodies obviously are? And likewise female brains are masculinized as their bodies are. If they are taller than average, more muscular than average, then their brains are likely to be more masculine as well.

    Replies: @purpleslog, @EdwardM, @gandydancer

    If gays or 2-3% of the population then there should be about a zero percent chance that any of 20 or so people would be gay?

    Um, no. The chance of none of 20 random people being homo would be .98**20-.97**20, or ~67%-54%.

  159. @Triteleia Laxa
    @Steve Sailer

    That's great writing, but I haven't noticed gay men being particularly comfortable with just "being". The culture seems hyperactive to me. I've also found that most I've met, as individuals, would benefit greatly from sitting still and breathing for a few minutes.

    I wonder if, given your comparison of TV famous stars, both sportsmen and musicians, who were in areas where being "outed" would hurt their careers, therefore had a lot less casual sex? Liberace did not have to worry about this, nor would many theatre actors, fashion designers or intellectuals, but, other than Rock Hudson, doesn't your observation also apply to Hollywood stars?

    I've looked up and found that 1/15 gay men in the US had died of AIDS by 1995. Yet I can only find one actor who I'd heard of. Can we really suppose that gay men are just naturally repelled by being movie stars? I could even find one tennis player, Arthur Ashe, and there are a lot fewer tennis players who are that type of famous.

    My perception of past attitudes to homosexuality is that it was usually privately accepted and tolerated, but publically made taboo. Politics, often the language of the public sphere, allows people's sadism out, as some "reasoned" excuse can always be made up. Private life, with its sense of connection and understanding, makes this excuse-making much harder.

    This is important for your thesis, since it would likely mean that gay men, in the pre-LGBTQ past, would avoid public roles and/or avoid behaviour, like risky sex, which would out them in those roles. Dancers and figure skaters were not really famous. People might recognise them, but not like they would sports or Hollywood stars.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home), @gandydancer

    …other than Rock Hudson, doesn’t your observation also apply to Hollywood stars?

    Weren’t Cary Grant and Randolph Scott supposed to be a couple?

  160. @Desiderius
    @Anon

    https://twitter.com/GorhamHarland/status/1407410591514439680?s=20

    Replies: @Alden, @Triteleia Laxa, @gandydancer

    Valoric Fire: ” O.J. Simpson’s father, Jimmy Lee Simpson, was a well-known drag queen in the Bay Area.”

    Homo, yes, drag queen… I don’t think so. At least that’s what a quick look into this seems to show. That would be SF’s idea of a human interest story, and I lived in the area with no hint of this. (OJ was a couple years older and grew up a mile or two south of me, on the other side of Potrero Hill.)

  161. Ofra Haza, but how she contracted ‘the big disease with the little name’ is not fixed.

    Video: Im Nin’Alu — Ofra Haza
    OK, I’ll quit living in the past. Just remembered it.

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Analyzing the History of a Controversial Movement
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Our Reigning Political Puppets, Dancing to Invisible Strings