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Why Are Ivy League Colleges So Sports-Crazed?
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An interesting question is: Why are Ivy League colleges so sports-crazed?

Princeton for example has 18 men’s teams and 17 women’s teams.

Princeton’s endowment is $26.1 billion, so I would imagine that the answer has to at least partly be: Because sports bring in donations.

But why? Is it because donors like to win (e.g., if, say, Princeton’s squash team beats Yale, do old Princetonian Wall Streeters who got to brag to their Yaley colleagues write bigger checks to Princeton)?

Or is it because winners grow up to be donors (e.g., Princeton’s squash players are likelier to write bigger checks to Princeton in 30 years than Princeton’s nerds and geeks)?

And if more the latter, why? Do ex-jocks make a higher income? Or do they donate a higher percentage of their income? Or both?

From the Daily Princetonian:

Ivy League athletics are the new “Moneyball”
By Liam O’Connor | Oct 10, 2019

… I dug into the online 2019 team rosters for all eight Ivy League universities to see who’s playing for them and where they came from.

The vast majority were likely recruited. The Daily Princetonian previously reported, “recruits dominate the rosters of the other 33 varsity Princeton teams [besides rowing], which typically include one to two walk-ons.”

My results show that sports pump hundreds of students from America’s richest towns and private “feeder schools” into elite colleges.

The homes of the Ivy League’s more than 7,000 athletes were clustered around the suburbs of major cities. They mostly lived in the Interstate 95 Corridor, which extends from Washington, D.C. to Boston. Other hotspots included Atlanta, Chicago, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. One in 10 American players lived in a hometown featured on Bloomberg’s 2018 list of “100 Richest Places.”

Connecticut’s Gold Coast had the highest concentration of athletes of any area in the U.S. One hundred and ninety-five came from lower Fairfield County, a third of whom were Greenwich residents alone. Rowing was the most popular sport there, followed by squash.

Not to be outdone too easily, Boston and the North Shore’s 15 richest suburbs sent 185 athletes, with Wellesley, Massachusetts — whose median household income is $176,852 — as the leading contributor.

Northern Virginia provided 117 athletes. McLean and Alexandria — two of the state’s wealthiest towns — were tied for having the most in this region. Maryland’s affluent D.C. suburbs also slam-dunked students into athletics. Bethesda sent 29; Potomac, 16; and Chevy Chase, 15.

Ninety-three athletes resided in the 10 towns of Westchester County, New York, that were featured on the Bloomberg list, all of which had average household incomes above $196,000. Philadelphia’s Main Line sent another 87, and Chicago’s North Shore suburbs sent 59.

The top 10 towns in San Mateo and Santa Clara Counties, California, were home to 60 and 53 athletes, respectively. Orange County’s highest 10 income towns also sent 53.

Rich suburbs gave the Ivy League a disproportionately large share of its athletes, but cities still reigned in some cases. New York City was home to 151 players; Los Angeles, 64; and Houston, 49.

Only two athletes lived in either North Dakota or West Virginia, and four athletes in either Wyoming or Mississippi.

London, United Kingdom, was the most popular foreign city for finding athletes. It sent 75, almost half of whom were rowers. At 46, Toronto, Canada, was the next most popular place abroad.

Team rosters also showed that private high schools funneled dozens of athletes into the Ivy League.

The Noble and Greenough School (annual cost: $58,100 for boarding students) had 50 alumni as varsity athletes. Deerfield Academy ($60,680) came in second with 36 students; Phillips Exeter Academy ($55,402), third, with 32; and the Lawrenceville School ($66,360), fourth, with 30.

One out of every seven British athletes attended Eton College ($51,324) or St. Paul’s School ($47,378), of whom the majority were rowers.

Greenwich High School topped the public school list with 32 athletes. Newport Beach’s Corona del Mar High School and the Chicago North Shore’s New Trier High School tied for second at 21. Other notable top public schools whose contributions occupy the high teens include Princeton High School, Weston High School, Darien High School, and Manhasset High School.

At least 11 private high schools had 20 or more seniors who became athletes, versus just three public schools. …

Women’s golf

I.e., Koreans

, men’s volleyball, and water polo for both genders were the most western sports. They were each centered in Los Angeles.

Volleyball and water polo have always been well-respected sports in SoCal.

Men’s squash, men’s hockey, men’s tennis, and men’s heavyweight rowing were clustered in the northeast, around northern New Jersey or New York. Fencing was split between the coasts.

Women’s soccer, women’s softball, and women’s volleyball were the sole sports based in the southern states, though men’s football also had a strong southern contingent. Polo players were concentrated in the northeast.

Does Princeton have a polo team? It appears to have one intermittently, although not at present.

Not a single skier came from the South or the Great Plains.

That would be a good Rick Singer scandal 1980s-style teen comedy movie plot. Rich kid from Palm Beach, FL who has never seen snow or mountains gets into Princeton as a skier, but then due to mishap is forced to race in the match with Dartmouth down the double black diamond run at Lake Placid.

Ivy League schools offer over 30 sports for men and women, which is often more than what’s available at “powerhouse” schools. College Factual reported that the University of Alabama had 640 student-athletes in 22 sports. Last spring, Princeton had 920 in 37.

USC, a giant private university in a part of the country with traditionally high interest in minor Olympic sports, has about 20 teams. (2028 will be the third time the Olympic opening ceremony will be held in the Coliseum adjoining the USC campus.)

The Harvard Crimson found that Harvard spends $1 million per year on recruitment expenses alone. …

About a fifth of the seats in each incoming class go to recruited athletes. Most of them don’t play high profile revenue-generating sports like football or basketball. They play the “country club sports” of polo, sailing, squash, rowing, and fencing, among others. Many of these sports are limited in their regional extent.

Athletes disproportionately come from private high schools — usually in the northeast. The high schools with the most Ivy League athletes are the same schools that send the most students to Harvard and Princeton as featured on PolarisList, except for those with academic admissions tests like Stuyvesant and Thomas Jefferson High Schools.

The Crimson’s survey revealed that nearly half of recruits in the Class of 2022 came from families earning more than $250,000 per year. Less than 13 percent of their families have annual paychecks under $81,000. NCAA data say that 65 percent of athletes are white, a higher proportion than many of their student bodies.

I would guess that women athletes at Princeton are a higher percentage white than men athletes, because there is no football team and because Latinas don’t play much sports, unless they are rich girls from Latin America.

In college, Bowen and Levin found that athletes lagged in their studies behind what their high school academic scores predicted, and this underperformance continued into the off-season when physical exhaustion was not an issue. Walk-ons and non-athletes didn’t suffer from the same poor scores.

Despite this dismal record, colleges pour more money into athletics than any other extracurricular activity. At Princeton, the athletics department received $32.3 million last year. … The Harvard Crimson and the Yale Daily News reported that Wall Street firms recruit dozens of athletes into high paying jobs through their networks of alumni who were athletes themselves. Presumably, a number of their children in the future will want to play sports at their parent’s alma mater or somewhere similar.

One question is whether athletic admits are often doing double duty as Developmental admits? We saw with the Varsity Blues scandal that Rick Singer could find corrupt coaches at colleges, like the Yale women’s soccer coach, to take personal bribes to let in rich kids who were no good at the sport. Of course, it’s not illegal for Ivy League colleges to take an institutional bribe.

So maybe Ivy League colleges have institutionalized this: Okay, coach, we’ll give you 12 admits, but 2 of them have to be Top Tier Likely Donors and 6 of them Second Tier Likely Donors according to our Donor Forecast Model.

If any readers out there have been employed on statistically modeling who donates, let us know what the findings tend to be.

 
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  1. revenue-generating sports like football or basketball

    I’d be surprised if these sports generate much revenue at their level.

    Why are Ivy League colleges so sports-crazed?

    I think it’s an easy way to identify students who have excellent leadership qualities.

    • Replies: @Hamilton was right
    This is correct. Division I football is revenue generating because of (1) TV money and (2) selling out 80,000 or 100,000 seat stadiums, and (3) selling out luxury boxes to wealthier alumni. Ivy League schools have none of these, and, indeed, only a few dozen Division I programs have all three. For other Division I schools, they are marginally profitable, and then only because they accept multi million dollar payments to play extra road games against schools that will beat them 56-7. Ivy League schools likely lose money on football.
    , @GU
    Leadership, maybe. Grit, team player, and some humility? Definitely.

    On the humility point, almost every athlete eventually runs up against others in their sport who are simply superior to themselves. That leaves an impression on you, especially when you’re already pretty damn good at your sport.

    People who focus purely on academics and intellectual pursuits are less likely to get so viscerally put in their place. And many such people have an overinflated sense of self in part because they have been so dramatically dominated.
  2. Rich people like funding their own idiosyncratic sports to create another layer to their community that insulates them from having to interact with other classes and create another form of socialisation for their children.

    • Agree: slumber_j
  3. Interesting that Noble and Greenough produced so many athletes. It is (unusually) a five-day boarding school, meaning that the kids go home on weekends. It is located very close to Boston. The campus has extensive athletic facilities but so do most New England boarding schools (like ice rinks for the hockey teams).

    • Replies: @John Pepple

    The campus has extensive athletic facilities but so do most New England boarding schools (like ice rinks for the hockey teams).
     
    The elementary school I went to had its own hockey rink, and it was a public school. That was in Minneapolis, where such things are considered normal. I don't know about Boston's public schools.
    , @Lagertha
    My eldest son (soccer player) went to the annual spring Premier soccer tourney there. We marveled at their locker rooms/athletic complexes as they allowed teams who played 2+ games to take a shower before heading back (last day of tourney, and hopefully after winning in the final :), to various New England states.

    My boys where public HS kids, but they had friends from various backgrounds - Premier teams are sort of based on players from various towns. In fact, my son's team had immigrants and low income kids, among 2 prep school kids, who all became very successful by playing soccer beautifully, and landing scholarships and spots on teams in college.

    Of course, the public HS teammates would not be allowed to play on their autumn varsity HS team if they were terrible students - and, they have to sign contracts to behave. The teamwork, year 'round, also led to all of them succeeding, now their late 20's. Once in a while, I run into one of those boys, and, it is a good feeling when I know they have done well. So, sports are good. I really miss the Premier soccer parents; we had a lot of fun on those road trip games.

  4. Why are Ivy League colleges so sports-crazed?

    Uh, the actual Ivy League, as its name suggests, is an athletic conference. So that’s like asking, “Why are Pac Ten schools so sports-crazed?” Or Big Ten or Big Eight or ACC.

    Princeton for example has 18 men’s teams and 17 women’s teams

    That sounds so… binary. They need to get with the times. Co-ed chessboxing.

    Latinas don’t play much sports

    I can see why…

    • Replies: @Kronos
    Oh that’s bad. The designer had to fired for that one.

    The second one to the right doesn’t look too happy either.
    , @ScarletNumber

    Uh, the actual Ivy League, as its name suggests, is an athletic conference.
     
    One has nothing to do with the other. There are plenty of athletic conferences whose members don't emphasize sports such as the NESCAC and the UAA.
    , @PiltdownMan
    Two, perhaps three, of those women look South Asian. Where's that picture from? Colombia?
  5. What about the complex relations between College sports and Affirmative Action? Many athletes are highly proficient in their sport but that’s it. That their test scores and GPAs are abysmal. I felt kinda bad for that tutor from Tom Wolfe’s “My Name is Charlotte Simmons.” Essentially, he was a one-man plagiarism mill for a whole University’s basketball team.

    I won’t spoil much, but I don’t think the plagiarism issue would’ve have gotten as far if “Jo Jo” was Black. I’m sure many professors take pity on black athletes and feel taking away sports would be monstrous. That sports provides a authentic avenue for developing social capital and prestige for Blacks. Jo Jo was white so he was fair game.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Kronos:

    The tutor also declared that if blacks took up squash they would quickly dominate that white man's sport!
    , @Hibernian
    There's a reason why Northwestern got better at basketball. Although the U of C will always be Division III.
    , @GU
    My understanding is that, outside of big time football and basketball programs, where we’re admittedly enrolling lots of kids with no business being in college, athletes don’t have terribly different gpas and test scores than the general student population. The same is true of legacies btw.

    As a corollary, the average white athlete almost certainly has better academic qualifications than the average black or Hispanic student (athlete or not) at a given school.

    Athletes *should* get a small “bump” for admissions. As long as you’re in the same ball park academically (pun intended), admitting well-rounded students is a virtue, not a vice.
  6. OT: Eco-loons Extinction Rebellion have been causing trouble all over London over the past week or so but mainly sticking to the central areas like the City and Trafalgar Square. This morning a few of them decided to disrupt the tube in up coming but still edgy Canning Town in the east. It didn’t go so well for them. This clip is replete with faultlines: https://twitter.com/HollyJoCollins/status/1184713537232556032

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    Cowboy Shaw:

    In a similar situation the NYC proletariat would not display as much gumption as the Canning Town counter- protesters. BRAVO!
    , @Anon
    When someone makes himself a nuisance to hundreds of people and gets smacked around for it, I applaud. The English mob has a long history of knocking arrogant fools down from their pedestals and teaching them their place. This sort of behavior goes back in English culture for hundreds of years. Magna Carta, etc.
  7. One question is whether athletic admits are often doing double duty as Developmental admits?

    Sports at elite colleges are definitely perpetuated because they keep the donors happy, but I don’t think the relationship is that direct. Having successful athletics programs makes students and alums feel good about the school. Giving money is about continuing to belong to this thing they feel good about. With the withdrawal of militarism from most of society, there is a great demand for simulated combat activities to maintain tribalism and belong. This is the role of sports.

    I don’t have any sausage-factory perspective, so this could be totally wrong. But my impression is that the helmet sports get the most attention. Thus the guys involved in them are the least academically capable because they have been selected almost entirely for their athletic ability. (Also they are constantly bashing their heads against things.) I would doubt that they go on to become massively wealthy donors but what do I know.

    Finally, I would just the pedantic point that everybody knows, namely that the Ivy League is an athletic conference, so it is sports-obsessed by definition. Or, as I once heard it explained, it is a disarmament pact. All the participants agree to limit the special favors they grant athletes in admissions so that they can maintain academic standards. Otherwise competition would compel them to admit overmany intellectually substandard athletes and ultimately damage the academic reputation of the schools. (Like all elite universities the ivies succeed not by preparing you super well but by selecting some portion of super smart people who would’ve done well regardless.)

  8. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    Like the article says, most of these are “country club” sports that generally require some wealth and leisure to pursue, so most of the athletes are going to be from upper middle and upper class backgrounds. with some wealth or significant financial security. Even if they make less than non-athletes after graduation, they may be more inclined to donate because of their family wealth or financial security.

    • Agree: Aft
  9. A more interesting question is why are sports journalists, both current and ex, so seemingly clueless yet obsequiously promote themselves as in the know, and posit questions they refuse to answer for conjecture from a better informed public which they will inevitably berate as being ignorant?

    Is it a subconscious career move in line with subjective social admonitions in response to being skin White born from a long line of grovelling sycophants or is it something far more genetic, ingrained and circumspect?

    • Replies: @Woodpecker
    You can eliminate the words 'sports' there and still have a valid question.
  10. @Reg Cæsar

    Why are Ivy League colleges so sports-crazed?
     
    Uh, the actual Ivy League, as its name suggests, is an athletic conference. So that's like asking, "Why are Pac Ten schools so sports-crazed?" Or Big Ten or Big Eight or ACC.

    Princeton for example has 18 men’s teams and 17 women’s teams
     
    That sounds so... binary. They need to get with the times. Co-ed chessboxing.

    Latinas don’t play much sports

     

    I can see why...


    https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2018/09/918/516/Colombian-bikers-3-1.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

    Oh that’s bad. The designer had to fired for that one.

    The second one to the right doesn’t look too happy either.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Oh that’s bad. The designer had to fired for that one.

    The second one to the right doesn’t look too happy either.
     
    The third from the right is the designer. She's the tallest and fairest, and perhaps the most dominant.
  11. Ivy Leagues admit athletes as a way to fill their Northeast slots with more WASPs and fewer Jews (though by 2019, much of the fourth generation of Ashkenazi Jewish immigrants has reverted to relative mediocrity through the third generation’s intermarriage and assimilation and feminist childlessness, so this may be a smaller factor than it used to be. The geographic quotas were themselves meant to limit the number of New York City Jews, though if deBlasio succeeds in destroying the elite NYC public schools, this will also be less of a problem for admissions officers.

    In general, preppy athletes are more likely to go into finance and investment banking and earn the seven and eight digit bonuses that make for good donor recruitment, and less likely to become Ph.D. academics or career grievance studies leftists that don’t.

    • Replies: @eugyppius

    Ivy Leagues admit athletes as a way to fill their Northeast slots with more WASPs and fewer Jews

     

    No efforts have been made to limit Jewish enrollment at Ivies in favor of whites since like the 1960s. And in fact Jewish enrollments at the most elite American schools is in long-term decline and has been since before 2000. That decline has coincided precisely with massive increases in applications to and therefore the selectivity of elite schools. Around 2000, Jews were about 65% of the white student body at Penn. At that saturation any increase in selectivity would surely reduce the Jewish share of the student body. In other words: If admissions departments actually desired to admit more gentiles and less Jews, which they do not, they could simply apply more strictly meritocratic criteria to the white+Jewish applicant pool, as it is clear that Jews are over-represented at the most selective universities even when accounting for their high test scores.

    But also the numbers would make sports an ineffective strategy for getting more gentiles. Reports put recruited athletes at about 13% of the Ivy League. This works with current numbers for Yale where varsity athletes amount to 850 of 5741 enrolled. Fifteen percent of the student body, a few of whom were admitted under their own steam. Media reports lament that whites are around 65% of athletes at elite schools so that gives us very roughly 555 white student athletes at Yale.

    So, a shade less than ten percent of Yale's current enrollment is a recruited white athlete. But that number includes Jews. If we're talking gentiles, it's even less than that, because Jews also go to prep schools and play sports, though at a lesser rate. So if we're optimistic this strategy results in at best 110 or 120 gentiles enrolling at Yale. Remember that the athletics program at Yale and the other ivies is very elaborate and expensive. As a means of retaining some percentage of WASP students, sports is perhaps the least cost effective method conceivable.

    Excluded from all of this is the Northeast angle.


    The geographic quotas were themselves meant to limit the number of New York City Jews,

     

    You mean in the 1930s? The Ivies of course want to be international rather than regional institutions and thus beyond a certain point they want to avoid a surfeit of New Yorkers. Whether or not they're Jewish has nothing to do with it.
    , @Sam Lowry
    Steve,

    I think Hamilton has the answer right here, it's Occam's Razor.

    "In general, preppy athletes are more likely to go into finance and investment banking and earn the seven and eight digit bonuses that make for good donor recruitment, and less likely to become Ph.Ds, academics or career grievance studies leftists that don’t."

    The smartest kids in the classes of Ivy+ schools are not athletes and disproportionately go on to do research, enter academia, gets PhDs, etc. (lots of future profs, STEM or pre-med kids here). Yes, some go into finance, but most don't. Likewise, the humanities kids (middle/lower part of class, but still objectively quite smart) are hitting the arts, entertainment, writing, publishing, non-profits, politics, etc. (and some doing finance too), and most will end up comfortable, but not hitting the seven/eight figure annual income/gains numbers.

    In contrast, tons of Ivy+ athletes (who are still mostly pretty smart by any reasonable standards and might be in middle or lower end of the class) go into finance and these jobs are just much more likely to produce seven or eight figures annual incomes/gains. Also, don't forget that playing college level athletics, even at Ivy+ schools, is a very intense experience. One becomes very, very close with teammates going through a tough 4 year bonding experience, ostensibly on behalf of their schools. Plus, finance/business are naturally competitive endeavors that college athletes, who I find are way more competitive than most, are just drawn to. Recall too that finance/consulting firms disproportionately draw from Ivy+ (i.e. target schools) and not from other schools--it's obscene how prestige conscious some firms are. At the end of the day, outside of finance, there are precious few career paths that regularly lead to nine figure wealth.

    So you have tightly bonded athletic kids who like to compete going disproportionately into careers with much greater potential to make very large amounts of money who then give some of their excess of filthy lucre to their alma maters that made them happy in their youth and allowed them to enter their fantastic money making careers in the first place! A virtuous cycle!

    , @Kronos
    But hasn’t their slots for WASP Appalachians been declining over the decades?
  12. @ScarletNumber

    revenue-generating sports like football or basketball
     
    I'd be surprised if these sports generate much revenue at their level.

    Why are Ivy League colleges so sports-crazed?
     
    I think it's an easy way to identify students who have excellent leadership qualities.

    This is correct. Division I football is revenue generating because of (1) TV money and (2) selling out 80,000 or 100,000 seat stadiums, and (3) selling out luxury boxes to wealthier alumni. Ivy League schools have none of these, and, indeed, only a few dozen Division I programs have all three. For other Division I schools, they are marginally profitable, and then only because they accept multi million dollar payments to play extra road games against schools that will beat them 56-7. Ivy League schools likely lose money on football.

  13. @Cowboy Shaw
    OT: Eco-loons Extinction Rebellion have been causing trouble all over London over the past week or so but mainly sticking to the central areas like the City and Trafalgar Square. This morning a few of them decided to disrupt the tube in up coming but still edgy Canning Town in the east. It didn't go so well for them. This clip is replete with faultlines: https://twitter.com/HollyJoCollins/status/1184713537232556032

    Cowboy Shaw:

    In a similar situation the NYC proletariat would not display as much gumption as the Canning Town counter- protesters. BRAVO!

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    I think it depends on the neighborhood. In ethnic enclaves like Italian Bensonhurst they might.
  14. @Kronos
    What about the complex relations between College sports and Affirmative Action? Many athletes are highly proficient in their sport but that’s it. That their test scores and GPAs are abysmal. I felt kinda bad for that tutor from Tom Wolfe’s “My Name is Charlotte Simmons.” Essentially, he was a one-man plagiarism mill for a whole University’s basketball team.

    I won’t spoil much, but I don’t think the plagiarism issue would’ve have gotten as far if “Jo Jo” was Black. I’m sure many professors take pity on black athletes and feel taking away sports would be monstrous. That sports provides a authentic avenue for developing social capital and prestige for Blacks. Jo Jo was white so he was fair game.

    Kronos:

    The tutor also declared that if blacks took up squash they would quickly dominate that white man’s sport!

    • Replies: @Kronos
    I enjoyed his advice on obtaining a Rhodes scholarship the most.
  15. @Kronos
    What about the complex relations between College sports and Affirmative Action? Many athletes are highly proficient in their sport but that’s it. That their test scores and GPAs are abysmal. I felt kinda bad for that tutor from Tom Wolfe’s “My Name is Charlotte Simmons.” Essentially, he was a one-man plagiarism mill for a whole University’s basketball team.

    I won’t spoil much, but I don’t think the plagiarism issue would’ve have gotten as far if “Jo Jo” was Black. I’m sure many professors take pity on black athletes and feel taking away sports would be monstrous. That sports provides a authentic avenue for developing social capital and prestige for Blacks. Jo Jo was white so he was fair game.

    There’s a reason why Northwestern got better at basketball. Although the U of C will always be Division III.

  16. @Dan Hayes
    Kronos:

    The tutor also declared that if blacks took up squash they would quickly dominate that white man's sport!

    I enjoyed his advice on obtaining a Rhodes scholarship the most.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
  17. Back in the late 1980’s, Columbia became famous for having the worst football team, maybe of all time, but at least of that decade. They even got a Sports Illustrated cover story, if I remember correctly. They didn’t win a single game for 2-3 years, or something awful like that.

    During that period, was there any noticeable decline in applications? In donations? In any other measure of school worth/status/etc.? Did improvements follow once the football team improved?

    • Replies: @EdwardM
    They went 0-44-3 between wins during a period from 1983-88. Maybe, contrary to hurting the university's reputation, it improved it -- due to publicity, fun, and the lovable-losers theme they cultivated:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Lions_football#The_Streak
  18. I worked at the development office of my Ivy alma mater as a student. Granted it was a few decades ago, but I don’t think things have changed much since then.* Ivy League athletes definitely display higher loyalty to their almae matres than the average students. They tend to have more friends (teams and fraternities) from college than ordinary students, show up for university events at higher frequencies, and indeed donate more on average.

    Furthermore, prior to the rise of the IT industry juggernaut, they were consistently more likely to become corporate executives or work in the financial services industries, some of which preferentially recruited athletes from top tier universities including the Ivies. I think the rationale was Ivies = smart enough and athlete = aggressive/risk-taking.

    *What’s changed now is IT. That’s where increasingly the big money has been since my days in college. And the Ivy graduates who work in that field are quite different from the former-athlete corporate executive or bond-trader types.

    • Replies: @Screwtape
    Long story bro. I also have some experience in development on a kind of tertiary level as an ‘athlete alumni’ for my west coast Ivy-like college.

    Before the diversity hydra took over and it was sort of ok to be white, my college selected for student-athletes. Some 60% of the student body participated in a sport.

    The mantra was about recruiting ‘leaders’ and well-rounded students. Athletic participation (and high performance) was a meaningful differentiator when the applicant pool all have 1400 SATs and 4.0GPA.

    Plus, historically this worked. The school punched way above its weight because these average-ish on the outside but sharp, scrappy, and full of gumption kids that probably wouldn’t have gotten into an Ivy - or rather would have hated the ‘culture’ there, would end end up thriving.

    Many of these student-athletes, myself included were recruited upon graduation into consulting, investment banking, law, academia, and public policy. This made for a pretty good ROI in terms of wealth creation aka future donations.

    More importantly, the shared culture and experiences of being a student-athlete at this really unique school that outperformed all its peers created a very strong bond. And loyalty. We were a tight community of lifelong friends who all gave back to the school in many ways.

    But over the last decade this has changed substantially in terms of converting student-athlete alumni into big - or even just regular, donors.

    The admin is busy head scratching over this. They lean on the athletic department now to incorporate development into their alumni outreach. Eg “big game this weekend [click here to donate]”

    I’ve been exposed to these efforts as an alumni as well as a kind of liaison to help the new effort to mine the athletic alumni network for cash.

    But for the Admin to address the issue they would have to soul-search. In other words notice what is illegal to notice.

    They are in the same heretical paradox as our own leaders in business and gov’t. And are responding predictably the same. Sad.

    The religion of multiculti diversity go-gurrrl politk has killed the golden goose. But they can’t work against this religion. And with so much attention on the diversity metric as an indication of holiness, they can’t even do it on the sly.

    So as one of the golden gooses that graduated years ago, I no longer recognize my alma mater.

    The unique greatness that I experienced is still there but it is a skeleton of its former self.

    Instead, I just see another institution liquidating its collateral as it sells out to the progressive agenda, backfilling the dead culture with globalist garbage. Sure they are still rich and still ranked among the best, but these are not “my people”.

    When I attended my school it was an 80% white, middle-class, male-dominated hardscrabble west-coast culture of smart jocks that flourished in a highly-competitive quasi-fraternal open-source and rather spartan environment. Almost like a casual, preppy special forces military-style culture. Basically it mirrored America in the pre-90’s.

    When I started in I-banking I was like, “I know this drill” and so getting up at 5:30 am for practice flowed by rigorous academic work among super smart and ambitious people, toiling all day then hammering some beers at night was totally normal.

    Fast forward. Years of title IX war on men, war on white, ‘diversity initiatives’, pressure from its peer colleges to conform, and entryism of lefty globalists using the avenues of the colleges core academic emphasis on practical applications of economics and gov’t to peddle their poison have strangled the culture into a homogenized rainbow of rich kids, commies, and angry entitled and envious POCs that to be frank are just aren’t good enough. Hence the anger.

    In my days, before all the weird extra-curricular stuff and the helicopter parent generation started resume stuffing their 10y/o wonderkin, things like eagle scout and all-american swimmer actually held weight.

    Now there is a lot more noise in the system, including more SAT aces and GPAs over 4. And, of course, the ‘international’ students with their fake transcripts and tuition checks paid in full.

    While athletics is still a differentiator, it has become more of a diversity valve because somehow the non-Asian POCs still don’t produce the numbers on paper. So I question if I would get in these days, being an evil white man playing a evil white sport.

    After a dustup a few years back when some POCs chimped out over some imagined issue, the admin caved and so now the anti-white male flogging has been fully institutionalized.

    The have a diversity office and a bunch of safe space bullshit and spend all kinds of money on coddling the angry dark ballast of progress.

    So they don’t need my money or efforts. I will never give again.

    The school still manages to be good at sports. But strangely its still the Asian and White sports. Tennis, golf, cross country, volleyball, water polo dominate.

    As the money raising efforts continue, the interesting metric is that its the women’s sports like volleyball and softball that are donating the most. I guess they were right. The future is female.
    , @EdwardM
    Agreed. Athletes, even in the Ivy League, tend to cluster in their own sub-culture on campus: the major sports have their own fraternities, athletes tend to congregate in the same (slightly less rigorous) majors, and they socialize together.

    They are the alpha males of the campus (not sure about female athletes); it's not surprising that that persona combined with the loyalty and community/networking aspects -- which persists into the job market, where they are definitely clustered in lucrative Wall Street-type jobs -- result in a lot of factors that make them more likely to donate down the line.

    A friend recently spent some time at U. Michigan, where the same trend exists, or at least did in the 70s-80s. The former football players were an impressive bunch. A lot of them became successful businesspeople in the area and remained very engaged with the school.

  19. @Reg Cæsar

    Why are Ivy League colleges so sports-crazed?
     
    Uh, the actual Ivy League, as its name suggests, is an athletic conference. So that's like asking, "Why are Pac Ten schools so sports-crazed?" Or Big Ten or Big Eight or ACC.

    Princeton for example has 18 men’s teams and 17 women’s teams
     
    That sounds so... binary. They need to get with the times. Co-ed chessboxing.

    Latinas don’t play much sports

     

    I can see why...


    https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2018/09/918/516/Colombian-bikers-3-1.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

    Uh, the actual Ivy League, as its name suggests, is an athletic conference.

    One has nothing to do with the other. There are plenty of athletic conferences whose members don’t emphasize sports such as the NESCAC and the UAA.

    • Replies: @ganderson
    NESCAC places a pretty high level of emphasis on sports, at least at the top of the league. I can testify that sports are VERY important at Amherst. They are quite successful across a variety of sports, including the helmet sports. Lots of alums at football and mlax games. And I'd guess between the 2 hockey teams and the men's lax team a super majority are prep school kids. Dunno about women's lax. No idea if it translates into a beefed up endowment, but then how much bigger can their endowment be?
  20. @Hamilton was right
    Ivy Leagues admit athletes as a way to fill their Northeast slots with more WASPs and fewer Jews (though by 2019, much of the fourth generation of Ashkenazi Jewish immigrants has reverted to relative mediocrity through the third generation’s intermarriage and assimilation and feminist childlessness, so this may be a smaller factor than it used to be. The geographic quotas were themselves meant to limit the number of New York City Jews, though if deBlasio succeeds in destroying the elite NYC public schools, this will also be less of a problem for admissions officers.

    In general, preppy athletes are more likely to go into finance and investment banking and earn the seven and eight digit bonuses that make for good donor recruitment, and less likely to become Ph.D. academics or career grievance studies leftists that don’t.

    Ivy Leagues admit athletes as a way to fill their Northeast slots with more WASPs and fewer Jews

    No efforts have been made to limit Jewish enrollment at Ivies in favor of whites since like the 1960s. And in fact Jewish enrollments at the most elite American schools is in long-term decline and has been since before 2000. That decline has coincided precisely with massive increases in applications to and therefore the selectivity of elite schools. Around 2000, Jews were about 65% of the white student body at Penn. At that saturation any increase in selectivity would surely reduce the Jewish share of the student body. In other words: If admissions departments actually desired to admit more gentiles and less Jews, which they do not, they could simply apply more strictly meritocratic criteria to the white+Jewish applicant pool, as it is clear that Jews are over-represented at the most selective universities even when accounting for their high test scores.

    But also the numbers would make sports an ineffective strategy for getting more gentiles. Reports put recruited athletes at about 13% of the Ivy League. This works with current numbers for Yale where varsity athletes amount to 850 of 5741 enrolled. Fifteen percent of the student body, a few of whom were admitted under their own steam. Media reports lament that whites are around 65% of athletes at elite schools so that gives us very roughly 555 white student athletes at Yale.

    So, a shade less than ten percent of Yale’s current enrollment is a recruited white athlete. But that number includes Jews. If we’re talking gentiles, it’s even less than that, because Jews also go to prep schools and play sports, though at a lesser rate. So if we’re optimistic this strategy results in at best 110 or 120 gentiles enrolling at Yale. Remember that the athletics program at Yale and the other ivies is very elaborate and expensive. As a means of retaining some percentage of WASP students, sports is perhaps the least cost effective method conceivable.

    Excluded from all of this is the Northeast angle.

    The geographic quotas were themselves meant to limit the number of New York City Jews,

    You mean in the 1930s? The Ivies of course want to be international rather than regional institutions and thus beyond a certain point they want to avoid a surfeit of New Yorkers. Whether or not they’re Jewish has nothing to do with it.

  21. I seem to recall that the big question on everybody’s mind at the Harvard-Yale game was not Who Will Win, it was, What will be the clever, ingenious, and highly amusing MIT prank in the middle of the game.

  22. It all started with Tom Brown’s School Days (1857) in which the author extols the virtues of boxing, cricket, climbing trees to steal birds’ eggs, and rugby football as necessary components in the education of young gentlemen.

    Learn to box, then, as you learn to play cricket and football. Not one of you will be the worse, but very much the better, for learning to box well. Should you never have to use it in earnest, there’s no exercise in the world so good for the temper and for the muscles of the back and legs.

    As to fighting, keep out of it if you can, by all means. When the time comes, if it ever should, that you have to say “Yes” or “No” to a challenge to fight, say “No” if you can—only take care you make it clear to yourselves why you say “No.” It’s a proof of the highest courage, if done from true Christian motives. It’s quite right and justifiable, if done from a simple aversion to physical pain and danger. But don’t say “No” because you fear a licking, and say or think it’s because you fear God, for that’s neither Christian nor honest. And if you do fight, fight it out; and don’t give in while you can stand and see.

    The tradition goes on long after everyone has forgotten the original intent, and now the sports are pansyfied and unisex so that dueling, swordfighting, archery, and foxhunting have given way to ping pong, golf, croquet and lady-soccer–leisure pursuits of the moneyed classes.

  23. A few observations.

    I think hockey scholarships are the number one way people from English Canada can enter the Ivy Leagues. I personally know of three guys who went that route. They either end up playing later in the NHL or if not good enough go into Wall Street/Bay Street.

    It’s good in a way that the Ivy Leagues don’t maintain big marquee football programmes which lead to mass recruiting of young black men on campus. It causes a dynamic you don’t want. Here in Canada at the second-tier universities, it seems around 80% of the female athletes are white, while around 50% of the male athletes are black or mulatto. They’re always being encouraged to fraternize with one another at parties, athletic banquet dinners, etc. Although the Ivies certainly preach diversity on a macro level, my guess is that they strive to minimize this interracial sexual dynamic on campus.

    Thirdly, the Ivies still at some level are promoting the well-rounded gentleman scholar via niche sports that few people outside their orbit play as a way of signalling to the rubes that these colleges are meant for a certain subset while minimizing, at least to a degree, the numbers of nebbish Jews being admitted.

    • Replies: @ganderson
    My first impression was that you were wrong- there weren't THAT many Canadians in the Ivies , but I was wrong- a quick and dirty survey suggests that about 35% of the men playing hockey in the Ivies are Canadian, with Princeton and Cornell the most (unsurprising in the case of Cornell, which has always been heavily Canadian) and Dartmouth the least. I didn't separate out the Frenchies, but my many years of being an NCAA fan tell me that there aren't many Quebecois- the occasional Martin St. Louis notwithstanding.

    Back when I was a nipper North Dakota and Denver (NOT Ivies) were notorious for their rosters full of 28 year olds from Alberta and Saskatchewan. For a kid from Swift Current or Spirit River Grand Forks must have seemed like New York City!

  24. @Reg Cæsar

    Why are Ivy League colleges so sports-crazed?
     
    Uh, the actual Ivy League, as its name suggests, is an athletic conference. So that's like asking, "Why are Pac Ten schools so sports-crazed?" Or Big Ten or Big Eight or ACC.

    Princeton for example has 18 men’s teams and 17 women’s teams
     
    That sounds so... binary. They need to get with the times. Co-ed chessboxing.

    Latinas don’t play much sports

     

    I can see why...


    https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2018/09/918/516/Colombian-bikers-3-1.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

    Two, perhaps three, of those women look South Asian. Where’s that picture from? Colombia?

    • Replies: @Prosa123
    Yes, Colombia, so they're probably mestiza or triguena.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Two, perhaps three, of those women look South Asian.
     
    How many South Asians are there in Colombia? I imagine there might be some, as Trinidad and Guyana border Venezuela, but that country is a basket case, and Colombia has calmed down quite a bit. An enterprising Hindu emigrant family might choose nearby Bogotá over London.
  25. On a non Ivy League level, I would estimate 80% of the bankers and insurance brokers I have come in contact through my job were athletes at lower level colleges, either NAIA or NCAA DII. Some in more minor sports, but some in basketball and football. There seems to be a hard bias towards having former college athletes in customer focused positions. There is probably an extended networking benefit to it, but does this scale up to the Ivy League? Does it help you get a job at Goldman Sachs if you played a sport at Harvard?

  26. Maybe the Ivy League grads who make the most money work in finance and business, areas to which they are attracted not only because they’re remunerative but because generally they are a sort of game themselves. Maybe those games lose their appeal in comparison with sports.

  27. @Pat Hannagan
    A more interesting question is why are sports journalists, both current and ex, so seemingly clueless yet obsequiously promote themselves as in the know, and posit questions they refuse to answer for conjecture from a better informed public which they will inevitably berate as being ignorant?

    Is it a subconscious career move in line with subjective social admonitions in response to being skin White born from a long line of grovelling sycophants or is it something far more genetic, ingrained and circumspect?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF6xf7YrbCk

    You can eliminate the words ‘sports’ there and still have a valid question.

  28. Is there anything significant about sports with MIT or Caltech? And- do any real science etc. luminaries, working at the Ivies & collecting science Nobels, Millennium prizes, Wolf prizes, Kyoto prizes, …., have anything to do with any sport whatsoever?

  29. @PiltdownMan
    Two, perhaps three, of those women look South Asian. Where's that picture from? Colombia?

    Yes, Colombia, so they’re probably mestiza or triguena.

  30. @Foreign Expert
    Interesting that Noble and Greenough produced so many athletes. It is (unusually) a five-day boarding school, meaning that the kids go home on weekends. It is located very close to Boston. The campus has extensive athletic facilities but so do most New England boarding schools (like ice rinks for the hockey teams).

    The campus has extensive athletic facilities but so do most New England boarding schools (like ice rinks for the hockey teams).

    The elementary school I went to had its own hockey rink, and it was a public school. That was in Minneapolis, where such things are considered normal. I don’t know about Boston’s public schools.

    • Replies: @Alden
    Friend whose military family spent years in several Texas bases told me the middle and high school football ball facilities in those shabby little towns were just splendid.

    High school sports are a nice family outing. Parents and kids, see friends, make new friends, sense of community , little ones can sleep in their strollers. Better than sitting at home in front of the idiot box.
  31. @ScarletNumber

    revenue-generating sports like football or basketball
     
    I'd be surprised if these sports generate much revenue at their level.

    Why are Ivy League colleges so sports-crazed?
     
    I think it's an easy way to identify students who have excellent leadership qualities.

    Leadership, maybe. Grit, team player, and some humility? Definitely.

    On the humility point, almost every athlete eventually runs up against others in their sport who are simply superior to themselves. That leaves an impression on you, especially when you’re already pretty damn good at your sport.

    People who focus purely on academics and intellectual pursuits are less likely to get so viscerally put in their place. And many such people have an overinflated sense of self in part because they have been so dramatically dominated.

  32. In the rich private schools, sports are more part of the curriculum. Everyone is expected to play some sport, unlike in public schools. Kids do not expect to be competing at football powerhouses, so they take the athletic scholarship to a great academic school. Also, many of the private schools offer sports like lacrosse, which are big in the ivies but not at BAMA.

    If you want both academics and athletics (and can make the grade), you go to Stanford like Cristian McCaffrey.

  33. I went to a “lower” Ivy. As others mentioned, the Ivy League itself is an athletic conference. Alumni, especially athlete alumni, want good teams. Meanwhile, Ivy athletes, with generally high intelligence, ambition and connections, are funneled into Wall Street and other prestigious occupations. I do believe that I’ve read that athletes donate more, at least in the “country club” sports.

    Ivies admit lots of Asian nerds and “woke” AA cases. But at a basic level, they still want some good looking, affluent, all-American kids. The prep school jocks fill that role. Athletes at Ivies, male and female, are better looking on average than other students.

    The Ivy football champion is not permitted to play in the FCS playoffs. I’d like to see that change.

    • Agree: EdwardM
  34. @Hamilton was right
    Ivy Leagues admit athletes as a way to fill their Northeast slots with more WASPs and fewer Jews (though by 2019, much of the fourth generation of Ashkenazi Jewish immigrants has reverted to relative mediocrity through the third generation’s intermarriage and assimilation and feminist childlessness, so this may be a smaller factor than it used to be. The geographic quotas were themselves meant to limit the number of New York City Jews, though if deBlasio succeeds in destroying the elite NYC public schools, this will also be less of a problem for admissions officers.

    In general, preppy athletes are more likely to go into finance and investment banking and earn the seven and eight digit bonuses that make for good donor recruitment, and less likely to become Ph.D. academics or career grievance studies leftists that don’t.

    Steve,

    I think Hamilton has the answer right here, it’s Occam’s Razor.

    “In general, preppy athletes are more likely to go into finance and investment banking and earn the seven and eight digit bonuses that make for good donor recruitment, and less likely to become Ph.Ds, academics or career grievance studies leftists that don’t.”

    The smartest kids in the classes of Ivy+ schools are not athletes and disproportionately go on to do research, enter academia, gets PhDs, etc. (lots of future profs, STEM or pre-med kids here). Yes, some go into finance, but most don’t. Likewise, the humanities kids (middle/lower part of class, but still objectively quite smart) are hitting the arts, entertainment, writing, publishing, non-profits, politics, etc. (and some doing finance too), and most will end up comfortable, but not hitting the seven/eight figure annual income/gains numbers.

    In contrast, tons of Ivy+ athletes (who are still mostly pretty smart by any reasonable standards and might be in middle or lower end of the class) go into finance and these jobs are just much more likely to produce seven or eight figures annual incomes/gains. Also, don’t forget that playing college level athletics, even at Ivy+ schools, is a very intense experience. One becomes very, very close with teammates going through a tough 4 year bonding experience, ostensibly on behalf of their schools. Plus, finance/business are naturally competitive endeavors that college athletes, who I find are way more competitive than most, are just drawn to. Recall too that finance/consulting firms disproportionately draw from Ivy+ (i.e. target schools) and not from other schools–it’s obscene how prestige conscious some firms are. At the end of the day, outside of finance, there are precious few career paths that regularly lead to nine figure wealth.

    So you have tightly bonded athletic kids who like to compete going disproportionately into careers with much greater potential to make very large amounts of money who then give some of their excess of filthy lucre to their alma maters that made them happy in their youth and allowed them to enter their fantastic money making careers in the first place! A virtuous cycle!

    • Replies: @eugyppius

    The smartest kids in the classes of Ivy+ schools are not athletes and disproportionately go on to do research, enter academia, gets PhDs, etc. (lots of future profs, STEM or pre-med kids here).
     
    The Ivies also want alums to proceed to august careers in research as it redounds to their prestige. That is as good as money. What is the average net worth of Jews as opposed to those who fall in the WASP demographic? I believe there is research on this.

    Likewise, the humanities kids (middle/lower part of class, but still objectively quite smart) are hitting the arts, entertainment, writing, publishing, non-profits, politics, etc. (and some doing finance too), and most will end up comfortable, but not hitting the seven/eight figure annual income/gains numbers.
     
    The prominence of double majors ruins a lot of the distinctions you're drawing here. A huge number of humanities majors at the Ivies go into finance, not just a few. I would actually need to see a source before I believed that humanities majors were over-represented in fields like politics. Basically this is wrong.

    In contrast, tons of Ivy+ athletes (who are still mostly pretty smart by any reasonable standards and might be in middle or lower end of the class) go into finance and these jobs are just much more likely to produce seven or eight figures annual incomes/gains.
     
    The theory you're endorsing is that the goal of sports is to admit northeastern WASPs in lieu of Jews. That is probably at an Ivy like Yale maybe at the absolute maximum 50 or 60 people per class. Will "tons" of them go into finance? Perhaps it will be a third. So this whole thing reduces to a strategy for getting an extra 20-30 people with a chance of working at Goldman Sachs.

    At the end of the day, outside of finance, there are precious few career paths that regularly lead to nine figure wealth.
     
    At this point I suspect you are perhaps a parodist, but if you really want to make this argument you could begin by showing how many people worth nine figures (many of their names are surely known through media reports) were recruited athletes at "Ivy+" institutions. Probably this person or that person here or there.
  35. @Dan Hayes
    Cowboy Shaw:

    In a similar situation the NYC proletariat would not display as much gumption as the Canning Town counter- protesters. BRAVO!

    I think it depends on the neighborhood. In ethnic enclaves like Italian Bensonhurst they might.

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    kaganovitch:

    Although being nudged by non-threatening Chinese, I was surprised (and happy) to see via Wikipedia that the Bensonhurst Italians are still holding out!
  36. There may in fact be a “Donor Quotient” behind the scenes, but athletic directors/coaches only have an academic quotient for every recruitment class broken down by sport.

    Say the football team has 20 new players each year, the average of the incoming class on SAT/ACT/GPA has to meet a certain threshold. Individual variation is allowed so long as the average is correct, although there may be minimum requirements. So for this class, ~5 recruits will be on the same level as D1 athletes at big time athletic schools, ~5 recruits will be marginal athletes with stellar academic performance (kickers, punters, placeholders, benchwarmers), and 10 will be solid student-athletes from heartland America. Donations are probably coming in from the 5 stellar and 2-3 heartland America recruits who know their success on Wall Street was due Harvard opening the door.

    This is also why you see the likes of Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kyle Juszczyk, Cameron Brate, etc. in the NFL – they were recruited to top D1 teams but probably weren’t number 1 picks, so their parents convinced them it was stupid to chase the NFL over turning down a shot at Harvard. For a fun fictional example of this, check out the movie School Ties – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_Ties.

    Convincing top athletes to forego a top D1 program to come to Harvard is easier in sports where players tend to come from two parent households like football than say, basketball players.

    Gaming this system is how Tommy Amaker managed to take Harvard’s basketball team to the NCAA tournament four years in a row 2012-2015. After joining as head coach in 2007, he used his clout from coaching at Michigan to convince more exceptional black athletes who don’t *really* care about a business career to come to Harvard anyway and play for him. Simultaneously, he pushed for more relaxed standards in the minimum requirements for academic performance, probably by arguing that his athletes would increase diversity on the campus, while filling his remaining slots with top-tier students to bring up the overall academic quotient for the recruitment class.

    Hilariously, many of these newly recruited basketball players, including the captain Kyle Casey, were among those implicated in the heavily lampooned Introduction to Congress cheating scandal in 2012. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Harvard_cheating_scandal

    Casey was one of Amaker’s first recruits.

  37. Does Princeton have a polo team? It appears to have one intermittently, although not at present.

    Who gives a damn if those snot-nosed punks at Princeton have a polo team?

    Not far away from Princeton, Trumpy turned a perfectly respectable area for horse people into a nasty green green green golf course with raucous weddings and drunk upper middle class oafs dreaming they were some aristocrat boob on his manorial spread in England.

    Princeton is not Harvard, and that is enough for me. Princeton has black squirrels — the kind of squirrels to make federal judge Allison Dale Burroughs happy and content — and Princeton has Aaron Burr buried beneath its sacred soil.

    Polo is for pissants — horse jumping is where the fun is.

    Teddy Cruz went to Harvard Law School and Princeton University. Hitler/Stalin as far as Harvard and Princeton are concerned for this peasant writer. Teddy Cruz pushes mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration and legalization for illegal alien invaders.

    Tweets from 2015:

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
    "Teddy Cruz went to Harvard Law School and Princeton University"

    Easy to get into the Ivies on affirmative action.
  38. From my personal experience as a DI athlete it’s because white former athletes are the biggest, most enthusiastic donors. Sports also represents a way to get rich white kids into school without upsetting the diversity apple cart. It’s a good system that leads to a continuous pipeline of big donors. I know for a fact certain schools only recruited me because they wanted my rich parents to write a big check. This is common behavior at all schools, let alone the Ivys.

  39. @Hamilton was right
    Ivy Leagues admit athletes as a way to fill their Northeast slots with more WASPs and fewer Jews (though by 2019, much of the fourth generation of Ashkenazi Jewish immigrants has reverted to relative mediocrity through the third generation’s intermarriage and assimilation and feminist childlessness, so this may be a smaller factor than it used to be. The geographic quotas were themselves meant to limit the number of New York City Jews, though if deBlasio succeeds in destroying the elite NYC public schools, this will also be less of a problem for admissions officers.

    In general, preppy athletes are more likely to go into finance and investment banking and earn the seven and eight digit bonuses that make for good donor recruitment, and less likely to become Ph.D. academics or career grievance studies leftists that don’t.

    But hasn’t their slots for WASP Appalachians been declining over the decades?

    • Replies: @snorlax
    Appalachia isn't home to many Wealthy Anglo-Saxon Protestants. Al Gore, I suppose.
  40. @John Pepple

    The campus has extensive athletic facilities but so do most New England boarding schools (like ice rinks for the hockey teams).
     
    The elementary school I went to had its own hockey rink, and it was a public school. That was in Minneapolis, where such things are considered normal. I don't know about Boston's public schools.

    Friend whose military family spent years in several Texas bases told me the middle and high school football ball facilities in those shabby little towns were just splendid.

    High school sports are a nice family outing. Parents and kids, see friends, make new friends, sense of community , little ones can sleep in their strollers. Better than sitting at home in front of the idiot box.

  41. @Twinkie
    I worked at the development office of my Ivy alma mater as a student. Granted it was a few decades ago, but I don’t think things have changed much since then.* Ivy League athletes definitely display higher loyalty to their almae matres than the average students. They tend to have more friends (teams and fraternities) from college than ordinary students, show up for university events at higher frequencies, and indeed donate more on average.

    Furthermore, prior to the rise of the IT industry juggernaut, they were consistently more likely to become corporate executives or work in the financial services industries, some of which preferentially recruited athletes from top tier universities including the Ivies. I think the rationale was Ivies = smart enough and athlete = aggressive/risk-taking.

    *What’s changed now is IT. That’s where increasingly the big money has been since my days in college. And the Ivy graduates who work in that field are quite different from the former-athlete corporate executive or bond-trader types.

    Long story bro. I also have some experience in development on a kind of tertiary level as an ‘athlete alumni’ for my west coast Ivy-like college.

    Before the diversity hydra took over and it was sort of ok to be white, my college selected for student-athletes. Some 60% of the student body participated in a sport.

    The mantra was about recruiting ‘leaders’ and well-rounded students. Athletic participation (and high performance) was a meaningful differentiator when the applicant pool all have 1400 SATs and 4.0GPA.

    [MORE]

    Plus, historically this worked. The school punched way above its weight because these average-ish on the outside but sharp, scrappy, and full of gumption kids that probably wouldn’t have gotten into an Ivy – or rather would have hated the ‘culture’ there, would end end up thriving.

    Many of these student-athletes, myself included were recruited upon graduation into consulting, investment banking, law, academia, and public policy. This made for a pretty good ROI in terms of wealth creation aka future donations.

    More importantly, the shared culture and experiences of being a student-athlete at this really unique school that outperformed all its peers created a very strong bond. And loyalty. We were a tight community of lifelong friends who all gave back to the school in many ways.

    But over the last decade this has changed substantially in terms of converting student-athlete alumni into big – or even just regular, donors.

    The admin is busy head scratching over this. They lean on the athletic department now to incorporate development into their alumni outreach. Eg “big game this weekend [click here to donate]”

    I’ve been exposed to these efforts as an alumni as well as a kind of liaison to help the new effort to mine the athletic alumni network for cash.

    But for the Admin to address the issue they would have to soul-search. In other words notice what is illegal to notice.

    They are in the same heretical paradox as our own leaders in business and gov’t. And are responding predictably the same. Sad.

    The religion of multiculti diversity go-gurrrl politk has killed the golden goose. But they can’t work against this religion. And with so much attention on the diversity metric as an indication of holiness, they can’t even do it on the sly.

    So as one of the golden gooses that graduated years ago, I no longer recognize my alma mater.

    The unique greatness that I experienced is still there but it is a skeleton of its former self.

    Instead, I just see another institution liquidating its collateral as it sells out to the progressive agenda, backfilling the dead culture with globalist garbage. Sure they are still rich and still ranked among the best, but these are not “my people”.

    When I attended my school it was an 80% white, middle-class, male-dominated hardscrabble west-coast culture of smart jocks that flourished in a highly-competitive quasi-fraternal open-source and rather spartan environment. Almost like a casual, preppy special forces military-style culture. Basically it mirrored America in the pre-90’s.

    When I started in I-banking I was like, “I know this drill” and so getting up at 5:30 am for practice flowed by rigorous academic work among super smart and ambitious people, toiling all day then hammering some beers at night was totally normal.

    Fast forward. Years of title IX war on men, war on white, ‘diversity initiatives’, pressure from its peer colleges to conform, and entryism of lefty globalists using the avenues of the colleges core academic emphasis on practical applications of economics and gov’t to peddle their poison have strangled the culture into a homogenized rainbow of rich kids, commies, and angry entitled and envious POCs that to be frank are just aren’t good enough. Hence the anger.

    In my days, before all the weird extra-curricular stuff and the helicopter parent generation started resume stuffing their 10y/o wonderkin, things like eagle scout and all-american swimmer actually held weight.

    Now there is a lot more noise in the system, including more SAT aces and GPAs over 4. And, of course, the ‘international’ students with their fake transcripts and tuition checks paid in full.

    While athletics is still a differentiator, it has become more of a diversity valve because somehow the non-Asian POCs still don’t produce the numbers on paper. So I question if I would get in these days, being an evil white man playing a evil white sport.

    After a dustup a few years back when some POCs chimped out over some imagined issue, the admin caved and so now the anti-white male flogging has been fully institutionalized.

    The have a diversity office and a bunch of safe space bullshit and spend all kinds of money on coddling the angry dark ballast of progress.

    So they don’t need my money or efforts. I will never give again.

    The school still manages to be good at sports. But strangely its still the Asian and White sports. Tennis, golf, cross country, volleyball, water polo dominate.

    As the money raising efforts continue, the interesting metric is that its the women’s sports like volleyball and softball that are donating the most. I guess they were right. The future is female.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    Your experience mirrors my own. Based on your description of the school, I believe it's the one I played soccer for and graduated from in 1977.

    If not, then there were two such schools in CA.
    , @An
    This has to be CMC.
    , @Twinkie

    The school still manages to be good at sports. But strangely its still the Asian and White sports. Tennis, golf, cross country, volleyball, water polo dominate.
     
    For my alma mater and others like it, rowing, lacrosse, swimming, soccer, and wrestling were big.
  42. @Kronos
    But hasn’t their slots for WASP Appalachians been declining over the decades?

    Appalachia isn’t home to many Wealthy Anglo-Saxon Protestants. Al Gore, I suppose.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    Not trying to be pedantic, just throwing in some trivia.

    Gore is a spoiled brat child of the highest levels of privilege. He grew up in Washington DC while his father (an old-school Southern appropriationist) was in the Senate (Gore actually lived in a hotel on Massachusetts Avenue). For high school, he went to St. Albans, an Episcopalian boarding school in DC.

    The people of Tennessee thought so much of their native son that in 2000 they voted for Bush.
  43. @Kronos
    What about the complex relations between College sports and Affirmative Action? Many athletes are highly proficient in their sport but that’s it. That their test scores and GPAs are abysmal. I felt kinda bad for that tutor from Tom Wolfe’s “My Name is Charlotte Simmons.” Essentially, he was a one-man plagiarism mill for a whole University’s basketball team.

    I won’t spoil much, but I don’t think the plagiarism issue would’ve have gotten as far if “Jo Jo” was Black. I’m sure many professors take pity on black athletes and feel taking away sports would be monstrous. That sports provides a authentic avenue for developing social capital and prestige for Blacks. Jo Jo was white so he was fair game.

    My understanding is that, outside of big time football and basketball programs, where we’re admittedly enrolling lots of kids with no business being in college, athletes don’t have terribly different gpas and test scores than the general student population. The same is true of legacies btw.

    As a corollary, the average white athlete almost certainly has better academic qualifications than the average black or Hispanic student (athlete or not) at a given school.

    Athletes *should* get a small “bump” for admissions. As long as you’re in the same ball park academically (pun intended), admitting well-rounded students is a virtue, not a vice.

  44. Traditionally, WASP Americans, like their English cousins, believed that sports were a great way to keep academic boys from becoming sissified, and, indeed, that the best men combined intelligence with athletic prowress.

    Then, when Ellis Island immigrants (especially Jews) threatened to take over Harvard, admissions exams were combined with athletic prowress recognition to keep out the non-WASP folks. Jews didn’t play sports, so that hurt their chances.

    But the WASP institutions also limited athletic prowress-admission to college sports that WASPs dominated. Hence, low-class baseball (with its large numbers of Irish and Italians and other immigrant-types) was not used as often for admissions as college football, which was seen as a WASP collegiate sport (well-more popular and organized than pro football). Lou Gehrig might be the lone example of an Ellis Island kid using baseball to get into a great school (Columbia).

    After Notre Dame (with its Irish emphasis) came to dominate college football, and then integration caused black dominance of football , the Ivys gave up using that particular sport as a secret-admission key. They concentrated on other sports prowress that gave away your WASPness, or, at least, your amenability to WASP-ruling class ways of life.

    It’s mostly about signalling. Kids in high school who play squash and lax and tennis and fencing and field hockey aren’t low-class blacks, puerto ricans, and bible-believing whites. They’re usually secular whites and asians, with the rare paper-bag-test-passing black thrown in.

  45. ivy league universities literally invented football.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt

    ivy league universities literally invented football.

     

    Princeton vs Rutgers 1869

    Rutgers won 6 to 4 over Princeton

    Rutgers ain't Ivy League. They got some Ivy on the eaves, though. IV therapy for dehydrated and hungover Rutgers students too.
  46. Anon[218] • Disclaimer says:
    @Cowboy Shaw
    OT: Eco-loons Extinction Rebellion have been causing trouble all over London over the past week or so but mainly sticking to the central areas like the City and Trafalgar Square. This morning a few of them decided to disrupt the tube in up coming but still edgy Canning Town in the east. It didn't go so well for them. This clip is replete with faultlines: https://twitter.com/HollyJoCollins/status/1184713537232556032

    When someone makes himself a nuisance to hundreds of people and gets smacked around for it, I applaud. The English mob has a long history of knocking arrogant fools down from their pedestals and teaching them their place. This sort of behavior goes back in English culture for hundreds of years. Magna Carta, etc.

  47. Met someone while vacationing in Dublin who said he made his living in New England consulting families on how to get their kids treated as athletic recruits by colleges.

    He said the best thing a family can do for a daughter is to get her golfing ASAP and intensively. Due to Title IX, schools with male golfing teams must have female golfing teams, and there seems to be a shortage of young women to fill those slots. And golf is by far the best sport for people with ambitions to reach the C-suite.

    Over thirty years ago, the word was that the investment banks looked for three things on a resume: a top-flight school, good-to-great grades, and one or more varsity letters in team sports.

    Aside from signaling competitiveness, commitment to a team sport generally shows the ability to work as part of a team, manage time, and work through exhaustion. Exactly what’s a “working group” in a big deal or project needs from a young member who doesn’t know anything yet.

    Even with the rise of tech, doesn’t Harvard College still send about a third or half of each class into consulting or financial disservices?

  48. Semi-related, semi-OT: The rare crime of violence committed by a white person here in Santa Barbara. The son/killer (who was then killed by police) was Exeter and Harvard, and a quarterback while at Harvard.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7581659/Tarzan-actor-Ron-Elys-wife-stabbed-death-SON.html

  49. Tech is definitely a game changer. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniack, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Page, Sergei Brin, Jeff Bezos et al. are not the athletic type. They are the nerds that get picked on by the jocks. The irony is, the nerds are now the tech company founders, but once their companies become big and successful, they start hiring the jocks from their alma-maters to run the show and do the sales. So in the end you still end up with cliques of jocks running the show in tech companies.

    • Replies: @SimpleSong
    That's true, but I think the ex-athletes are often objectively better in those sales roles. You can measure the productivity of salespeople pretty easily so I don't think these guys are getting star-struck by some UPenn quarterback and wasting a bunch of money. They might not be super bright but intelligence isn't everything.

    Also while its true that Google and Microsoft and others employ salespeople, they are much less sales-heavy than tech companies of previous generations. And management is still dominated by tech types (and if it isn't, they get destroyed pretty quickly {cough} Carly Fiorina {cough}) The world really is changing.

  50. @Sam Lowry
    Steve,

    I think Hamilton has the answer right here, it's Occam's Razor.

    "In general, preppy athletes are more likely to go into finance and investment banking and earn the seven and eight digit bonuses that make for good donor recruitment, and less likely to become Ph.Ds, academics or career grievance studies leftists that don’t."

    The smartest kids in the classes of Ivy+ schools are not athletes and disproportionately go on to do research, enter academia, gets PhDs, etc. (lots of future profs, STEM or pre-med kids here). Yes, some go into finance, but most don't. Likewise, the humanities kids (middle/lower part of class, but still objectively quite smart) are hitting the arts, entertainment, writing, publishing, non-profits, politics, etc. (and some doing finance too), and most will end up comfortable, but not hitting the seven/eight figure annual income/gains numbers.

    In contrast, tons of Ivy+ athletes (who are still mostly pretty smart by any reasonable standards and might be in middle or lower end of the class) go into finance and these jobs are just much more likely to produce seven or eight figures annual incomes/gains. Also, don't forget that playing college level athletics, even at Ivy+ schools, is a very intense experience. One becomes very, very close with teammates going through a tough 4 year bonding experience, ostensibly on behalf of their schools. Plus, finance/business are naturally competitive endeavors that college athletes, who I find are way more competitive than most, are just drawn to. Recall too that finance/consulting firms disproportionately draw from Ivy+ (i.e. target schools) and not from other schools--it's obscene how prestige conscious some firms are. At the end of the day, outside of finance, there are precious few career paths that regularly lead to nine figure wealth.

    So you have tightly bonded athletic kids who like to compete going disproportionately into careers with much greater potential to make very large amounts of money who then give some of their excess of filthy lucre to their alma maters that made them happy in their youth and allowed them to enter their fantastic money making careers in the first place! A virtuous cycle!

    The smartest kids in the classes of Ivy+ schools are not athletes and disproportionately go on to do research, enter academia, gets PhDs, etc. (lots of future profs, STEM or pre-med kids here).

    The Ivies also want alums to proceed to august careers in research as it redounds to their prestige. That is as good as money. What is the average net worth of Jews as opposed to those who fall in the WASP demographic? I believe there is research on this.

    Likewise, the humanities kids (middle/lower part of class, but still objectively quite smart) are hitting the arts, entertainment, writing, publishing, non-profits, politics, etc. (and some doing finance too), and most will end up comfortable, but not hitting the seven/eight figure annual income/gains numbers.

    The prominence of double majors ruins a lot of the distinctions you’re drawing here. A huge number of humanities majors at the Ivies go into finance, not just a few. I would actually need to see a source before I believed that humanities majors were over-represented in fields like politics. Basically this is wrong.

    In contrast, tons of Ivy+ athletes (who are still mostly pretty smart by any reasonable standards and might be in middle or lower end of the class) go into finance and these jobs are just much more likely to produce seven or eight figures annual incomes/gains.

    The theory you’re endorsing is that the goal of sports is to admit northeastern WASPs in lieu of Jews. That is probably at an Ivy like Yale maybe at the absolute maximum 50 or 60 people per class. Will “tons” of them go into finance? Perhaps it will be a third. So this whole thing reduces to a strategy for getting an extra 20-30 people with a chance of working at Goldman Sachs.

    At the end of the day, outside of finance, there are precious few career paths that regularly lead to nine figure wealth.

    At this point I suspect you are perhaps a parodist, but if you really want to make this argument you could begin by showing how many people worth nine figures (many of their names are surely known through media reports) were recruited athletes at “Ivy+” institutions. Probably this person or that person here or there.

  51. Like many things, I think this is an example of people in leadership positions basing their decisions on the world as it was in 1950 (or, heck, even 1990) instead of as it is today.

    Alumni donations is a lagging indicator by at least 20 years and possibly 30 or 40 or 50. So we won’t know if the decision to preferentially admit athletes is the right one for a long time. It appears that it was in the past based on alumni donation rates, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it will be going forward. Some things that I notice:

    1.) First off, looking at alumni donation rates by ex athlete/non athlete is really not the correct metric, rather total donations would be. An excessive emphasis on athletics can alienate the normal student population and have a net negative effect on donations even if the athletes donate avidly. I don’t have any evidence for or against this, and during my generation I don’t think it mattered much. But anecdotally my two normie nephews who are are Ivy League alums seemed a bit annoyed at the resources that were reserved for athletes only (special tutoring, special food, special gyms, etc.) They saw the athletes as being bright, but not up to the same level as the non-athletes, as well as cliquish and insular. Will this affect their future donation patterns? Not sure, but if anything it would seem to make them less likely to donate.

    2.) I would assume athletes would do better in sales and customer facing roles and so I am not surprised they have higher long term earnings. But nowadays those types of jobs are disappearing. The easy communication and price transparency brought on by the internet is killing those roles. Those Harvard rowing twins are a case in point–a generation ago I could see them successfully launching Facebook and relegating Zuckerberg to a backroom tech role, but nowadays that doesn’t happen. Truthfully they would have probably been better off spending less time rowing.

    3.) As time goes by and the world becomes more complex a little bit of marginal intelligence becomes more and more of an advantage. A handsome athletic guy with good soft skills that would have been ‘smart enough’ a generation ago might not cut it now.

    4.) The US is increasingly dominated by Asian elites who put about 0 stock in this stuff.

    Anyway I think if you want to have sports teams, great, but if you want to give preferential admissions based on belief that athletes will earn more and donate more that opens up a really messy can of worms. Physically attractive people tend to earn more, should we let them in preferentially? Heck, whites tend to donate more than blacks, can we let them in preferentially on that rationale? I just don’t think you want to go down that road

  52. @snorlax
    Appalachia isn't home to many Wealthy Anglo-Saxon Protestants. Al Gore, I suppose.

    Not trying to be pedantic, just throwing in some trivia.

    Gore is a spoiled brat child of the highest levels of privilege. He grew up in Washington DC while his father (an old-school Southern appropriationist) was in the Senate (Gore actually lived in a hotel on Massachusetts Avenue). For high school, he went to St. Albans, an Episcopalian boarding school in DC.

    The people of Tennessee thought so much of their native son that in 2000 they voted for Bush.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt

    The people of Tennessee thought so much of their native son that in 2000 they voted for Bush.

     

    I voted for Patrick Joseph Buchanan in 2000.

    George W Bush and Al Gore are evil baby boomer globalizer rich boy bastards.
    , @Reg Cæsar

    The people of Tennessee thought so much of their native son that in 2000 they voted for Bush.
     
    Upstate New York was even more dismissive of their spawn FDR. He even needed to add third-party votes (illegal in the states) to carry his own state in 1940 and 1944. His native state was never in his top half of states, a very rare result among winning candidates.

    Landon lost Kansas in 1936, and McGovern South Dakota in 1972. McGovern was re-elected to the Senate. They still liked him, just not in the White House.
    , @(((Owen)))

    The people of Tennessee thought so much of their native son that in 2000 they voted for Bush.
     
    Much to America's despair.
  53. @prime noticer
    ivy league universities literally invented football.

    ivy league universities literally invented football.

    Princeton vs Rutgers 1869

    Rutgers won 6 to 4 over Princeton

    Rutgers ain’t Ivy League. They got some Ivy on the eaves, though. IV therapy for dehydrated and hungover Rutgers students too.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    Rutgers belonged in the Ivy League much more than Cornell did.
  54. @Tired of Not Winning
    Tech is definitely a game changer. Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniack, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Page, Sergei Brin, Jeff Bezos et al. are not the athletic type. They are the nerds that get picked on by the jocks. The irony is, the nerds are now the tech company founders, but once their companies become big and successful, they start hiring the jocks from their alma-maters to run the show and do the sales. So in the end you still end up with cliques of jocks running the show in tech companies.

    That’s true, but I think the ex-athletes are often objectively better in those sales roles. You can measure the productivity of salespeople pretty easily so I don’t think these guys are getting star-struck by some UPenn quarterback and wasting a bunch of money. They might not be super bright but intelligence isn’t everything.

    Also while its true that Google and Microsoft and others employ salespeople, they are much less sales-heavy than tech companies of previous generations. And management is still dominated by tech types (and if it isn’t, they get destroyed pretty quickly {cough} Carly Fiorina {cough}) The world really is changing.

  55. @William Badwhite
    Not trying to be pedantic, just throwing in some trivia.

    Gore is a spoiled brat child of the highest levels of privilege. He grew up in Washington DC while his father (an old-school Southern appropriationist) was in the Senate (Gore actually lived in a hotel on Massachusetts Avenue). For high school, he went to St. Albans, an Episcopalian boarding school in DC.

    The people of Tennessee thought so much of their native son that in 2000 they voted for Bush.

    The people of Tennessee thought so much of their native son that in 2000 they voted for Bush.

    I voted for Patrick Joseph Buchanan in 2000.

    George W Bush and Al Gore are evil baby boomer globalizer rich boy bastards.

    • Replies: @SteveRogers42
    Affirmative.
  56. Given the massive size of the endowments of these schools, why are they making any admit decision on potential donations a couple of decades down the road?

    That may have been wise half a century ago, but now these “colleges” are hedge funds with academic and athletic programs as camouflage.

    A ten million dollar check from an alumni in 2045, couch cushion change!

  57. @Kronos
    Oh that’s bad. The designer had to fired for that one.

    The second one to the right doesn’t look too happy either.

    Oh that’s bad. The designer had to fired for that one.

    The second one to the right doesn’t look too happy either.

    The third from the right is the designer. She’s the tallest and fairest, and perhaps the most dominant.

    • Replies: @Kronos
    Oh jeez.
  58. @PiltdownMan
    Two, perhaps three, of those women look South Asian. Where's that picture from? Colombia?

    Two, perhaps three, of those women look South Asian.

    How many South Asians are there in Colombia? I imagine there might be some, as Trinidad and Guyana border Venezuela, but that country is a basket case, and Colombia has calmed down quite a bit. An enterprising Hindu emigrant family might choose nearby Bogotá over London.

  59. @William Badwhite
    Not trying to be pedantic, just throwing in some trivia.

    Gore is a spoiled brat child of the highest levels of privilege. He grew up in Washington DC while his father (an old-school Southern appropriationist) was in the Senate (Gore actually lived in a hotel on Massachusetts Avenue). For high school, he went to St. Albans, an Episcopalian boarding school in DC.

    The people of Tennessee thought so much of their native son that in 2000 they voted for Bush.

    The people of Tennessee thought so much of their native son that in 2000 they voted for Bush.

    Upstate New York was even more dismissive of their spawn FDR. He even needed to add third-party votes (illegal in the states) to carry his own state in 1940 and 1944. His native state was never in his top half of states, a very rare result among winning candidates.

    Landon lost Kansas in 1936, and McGovern South Dakota in 1972. McGovern was re-elected to the Senate. They still liked him, just not in the White House.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    I'd guess one of the worst showings by a Prez candidate in his own state has to be Trump. I'm too lazy to look it up though.
  60. eugyppius 7, anent “I would doubt that they go on to become massively wealthy donors,” see Hank Paulson, whose brain underwent the dual insult of football and Dartmouth frat life (true to his legacy as trigger-pulling ΣΑΕ sot, Paulson’s reflex response to each new bank failure was to puke.) Thinking that brain-damaged rich kids have limited prospects verges on the long-discredited notion of meritocracy.

  61. @Charles Pewitt

    Does Princeton have a polo team? It appears to have one intermittently, although not at present.

     

    Who gives a damn if those snot-nosed punks at Princeton have a polo team?

    Not far away from Princeton, Trumpy turned a perfectly respectable area for horse people into a nasty green green green golf course with raucous weddings and drunk upper middle class oafs dreaming they were some aristocrat boob on his manorial spread in England.

    Princeton is not Harvard, and that is enough for me. Princeton has black squirrels -- the kind of squirrels to make federal judge Allison Dale Burroughs happy and content -- and Princeton has Aaron Burr buried beneath its sacred soil.

    Polo is for pissants -- horse jumping is where the fun is.

    Teddy Cruz went to Harvard Law School and Princeton University. Hitler/Stalin as far as Harvard and Princeton are concerned for this peasant writer. Teddy Cruz pushes mass legal immigration and mass illegal immigration and legalization for illegal alien invaders.

    Tweets from 2015:

    https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/590944702569979904

    https://twitter.com/CharlesPewitt/status/639164644150669312

    “Teddy Cruz went to Harvard Law School and Princeton University”

    Easy to get into the Ivies on affirmative action.

  62. @William Badwhite
    Not trying to be pedantic, just throwing in some trivia.

    Gore is a spoiled brat child of the highest levels of privilege. He grew up in Washington DC while his father (an old-school Southern appropriationist) was in the Senate (Gore actually lived in a hotel on Massachusetts Avenue). For high school, he went to St. Albans, an Episcopalian boarding school in DC.

    The people of Tennessee thought so much of their native son that in 2000 they voted for Bush.

    The people of Tennessee thought so much of their native son that in 2000 they voted for Bush.

    Much to America’s despair.

  63. @Screwtape
    Long story bro. I also have some experience in development on a kind of tertiary level as an ‘athlete alumni’ for my west coast Ivy-like college.

    Before the diversity hydra took over and it was sort of ok to be white, my college selected for student-athletes. Some 60% of the student body participated in a sport.

    The mantra was about recruiting ‘leaders’ and well-rounded students. Athletic participation (and high performance) was a meaningful differentiator when the applicant pool all have 1400 SATs and 4.0GPA.

    Plus, historically this worked. The school punched way above its weight because these average-ish on the outside but sharp, scrappy, and full of gumption kids that probably wouldn’t have gotten into an Ivy - or rather would have hated the ‘culture’ there, would end end up thriving.

    Many of these student-athletes, myself included were recruited upon graduation into consulting, investment banking, law, academia, and public policy. This made for a pretty good ROI in terms of wealth creation aka future donations.

    More importantly, the shared culture and experiences of being a student-athlete at this really unique school that outperformed all its peers created a very strong bond. And loyalty. We were a tight community of lifelong friends who all gave back to the school in many ways.

    But over the last decade this has changed substantially in terms of converting student-athlete alumni into big - or even just regular, donors.

    The admin is busy head scratching over this. They lean on the athletic department now to incorporate development into their alumni outreach. Eg “big game this weekend [click here to donate]”

    I’ve been exposed to these efforts as an alumni as well as a kind of liaison to help the new effort to mine the athletic alumni network for cash.

    But for the Admin to address the issue they would have to soul-search. In other words notice what is illegal to notice.

    They are in the same heretical paradox as our own leaders in business and gov’t. And are responding predictably the same. Sad.

    The religion of multiculti diversity go-gurrrl politk has killed the golden goose. But they can’t work against this religion. And with so much attention on the diversity metric as an indication of holiness, they can’t even do it on the sly.

    So as one of the golden gooses that graduated years ago, I no longer recognize my alma mater.

    The unique greatness that I experienced is still there but it is a skeleton of its former self.

    Instead, I just see another institution liquidating its collateral as it sells out to the progressive agenda, backfilling the dead culture with globalist garbage. Sure they are still rich and still ranked among the best, but these are not “my people”.

    When I attended my school it was an 80% white, middle-class, male-dominated hardscrabble west-coast culture of smart jocks that flourished in a highly-competitive quasi-fraternal open-source and rather spartan environment. Almost like a casual, preppy special forces military-style culture. Basically it mirrored America in the pre-90’s.

    When I started in I-banking I was like, “I know this drill” and so getting up at 5:30 am for practice flowed by rigorous academic work among super smart and ambitious people, toiling all day then hammering some beers at night was totally normal.

    Fast forward. Years of title IX war on men, war on white, ‘diversity initiatives’, pressure from its peer colleges to conform, and entryism of lefty globalists using the avenues of the colleges core academic emphasis on practical applications of economics and gov’t to peddle their poison have strangled the culture into a homogenized rainbow of rich kids, commies, and angry entitled and envious POCs that to be frank are just aren’t good enough. Hence the anger.

    In my days, before all the weird extra-curricular stuff and the helicopter parent generation started resume stuffing their 10y/o wonderkin, things like eagle scout and all-american swimmer actually held weight.

    Now there is a lot more noise in the system, including more SAT aces and GPAs over 4. And, of course, the ‘international’ students with their fake transcripts and tuition checks paid in full.

    While athletics is still a differentiator, it has become more of a diversity valve because somehow the non-Asian POCs still don’t produce the numbers on paper. So I question if I would get in these days, being an evil white man playing a evil white sport.

    After a dustup a few years back when some POCs chimped out over some imagined issue, the admin caved and so now the anti-white male flogging has been fully institutionalized.

    The have a diversity office and a bunch of safe space bullshit and spend all kinds of money on coddling the angry dark ballast of progress.

    So they don’t need my money or efforts. I will never give again.

    The school still manages to be good at sports. But strangely its still the Asian and White sports. Tennis, golf, cross country, volleyball, water polo dominate.

    As the money raising efforts continue, the interesting metric is that its the women’s sports like volleyball and softball that are donating the most. I guess they were right. The future is female.

    Your experience mirrors my own. Based on your description of the school, I believe it’s the one I played soccer for and graduated from in 1977.

    If not, then there were two such schools in CA.

  64. @Charles Pewitt

    The people of Tennessee thought so much of their native son that in 2000 they voted for Bush.

     

    I voted for Patrick Joseph Buchanan in 2000.

    George W Bush and Al Gore are evil baby boomer globalizer rich boy bastards.

    Affirmative.

  65. @ScarletNumber

    Uh, the actual Ivy League, as its name suggests, is an athletic conference.
     
    One has nothing to do with the other. There are plenty of athletic conferences whose members don't emphasize sports such as the NESCAC and the UAA.

    NESCAC places a pretty high level of emphasis on sports, at least at the top of the league. I can testify that sports are VERY important at Amherst. They are quite successful across a variety of sports, including the helmet sports. Lots of alums at football and mlax games. And I’d guess between the 2 hockey teams and the men’s lax team a super majority are prep school kids. Dunno about women’s lax. No idea if it translates into a beefed up endowment, but then how much bigger can their endowment be?

  66. @Reg Cæsar

    The people of Tennessee thought so much of their native son that in 2000 they voted for Bush.
     
    Upstate New York was even more dismissive of their spawn FDR. He even needed to add third-party votes (illegal in the states) to carry his own state in 1940 and 1944. His native state was never in his top half of states, a very rare result among winning candidates.

    Landon lost Kansas in 1936, and McGovern South Dakota in 1972. McGovern was re-elected to the Senate. They still liked him, just not in the White House.

    I’d guess one of the worst showings by a Prez candidate in his own state has to be Trump. I’m too lazy to look it up though.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I’d guess one of the worst showings by a Prez candidate in his own state has to be Trump. I’m too lazy to look it up though.
     
    However, his opponent was technically a New Yorker, too, as Willkie and Dewey were. Losing your state to an outsider is more embarrassing.

    Mondale just squeaked by, thanks to his relatives and neighbors. Reagan's loss in Minnesota was three % points better than Hillary's win.

    This "treemap" shows that Trump won 30 of his state's 32 least populous counties, while losing four of the five largest:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election_in_New_York#/media/File:United_States_presidential_election_in_New_York,_2016.svg
    , @ScarletNumber
    AFAIK Taft had the worst performance, earning only 27% of the vote in his reelection campaign in Ohio compared to the winner Woodrow Wilson with 41%. Since Taft came in 3rd nationally I don't know if you would count this.

    Strictly speaking Nixon lost his "home" state of New York in 1968, but obviously he is considered a Californian.

    In 2016 both major candidates considered New York to be their home state, so someone had to lose. I don't know what state I would most associate Hillary with. She was born in Illinois, but lived in Arkansas after marrying Bill.
  67. @Screwtape
    Long story bro. I also have some experience in development on a kind of tertiary level as an ‘athlete alumni’ for my west coast Ivy-like college.

    Before the diversity hydra took over and it was sort of ok to be white, my college selected for student-athletes. Some 60% of the student body participated in a sport.

    The mantra was about recruiting ‘leaders’ and well-rounded students. Athletic participation (and high performance) was a meaningful differentiator when the applicant pool all have 1400 SATs and 4.0GPA.

    Plus, historically this worked. The school punched way above its weight because these average-ish on the outside but sharp, scrappy, and full of gumption kids that probably wouldn’t have gotten into an Ivy - or rather would have hated the ‘culture’ there, would end end up thriving.

    Many of these student-athletes, myself included were recruited upon graduation into consulting, investment banking, law, academia, and public policy. This made for a pretty good ROI in terms of wealth creation aka future donations.

    More importantly, the shared culture and experiences of being a student-athlete at this really unique school that outperformed all its peers created a very strong bond. And loyalty. We were a tight community of lifelong friends who all gave back to the school in many ways.

    But over the last decade this has changed substantially in terms of converting student-athlete alumni into big - or even just regular, donors.

    The admin is busy head scratching over this. They lean on the athletic department now to incorporate development into their alumni outreach. Eg “big game this weekend [click here to donate]”

    I’ve been exposed to these efforts as an alumni as well as a kind of liaison to help the new effort to mine the athletic alumni network for cash.

    But for the Admin to address the issue they would have to soul-search. In other words notice what is illegal to notice.

    They are in the same heretical paradox as our own leaders in business and gov’t. And are responding predictably the same. Sad.

    The religion of multiculti diversity go-gurrrl politk has killed the golden goose. But they can’t work against this religion. And with so much attention on the diversity metric as an indication of holiness, they can’t even do it on the sly.

    So as one of the golden gooses that graduated years ago, I no longer recognize my alma mater.

    The unique greatness that I experienced is still there but it is a skeleton of its former self.

    Instead, I just see another institution liquidating its collateral as it sells out to the progressive agenda, backfilling the dead culture with globalist garbage. Sure they are still rich and still ranked among the best, but these are not “my people”.

    When I attended my school it was an 80% white, middle-class, male-dominated hardscrabble west-coast culture of smart jocks that flourished in a highly-competitive quasi-fraternal open-source and rather spartan environment. Almost like a casual, preppy special forces military-style culture. Basically it mirrored America in the pre-90’s.

    When I started in I-banking I was like, “I know this drill” and so getting up at 5:30 am for practice flowed by rigorous academic work among super smart and ambitious people, toiling all day then hammering some beers at night was totally normal.

    Fast forward. Years of title IX war on men, war on white, ‘diversity initiatives’, pressure from its peer colleges to conform, and entryism of lefty globalists using the avenues of the colleges core academic emphasis on practical applications of economics and gov’t to peddle their poison have strangled the culture into a homogenized rainbow of rich kids, commies, and angry entitled and envious POCs that to be frank are just aren’t good enough. Hence the anger.

    In my days, before all the weird extra-curricular stuff and the helicopter parent generation started resume stuffing their 10y/o wonderkin, things like eagle scout and all-american swimmer actually held weight.

    Now there is a lot more noise in the system, including more SAT aces and GPAs over 4. And, of course, the ‘international’ students with their fake transcripts and tuition checks paid in full.

    While athletics is still a differentiator, it has become more of a diversity valve because somehow the non-Asian POCs still don’t produce the numbers on paper. So I question if I would get in these days, being an evil white man playing a evil white sport.

    After a dustup a few years back when some POCs chimped out over some imagined issue, the admin caved and so now the anti-white male flogging has been fully institutionalized.

    The have a diversity office and a bunch of safe space bullshit and spend all kinds of money on coddling the angry dark ballast of progress.

    So they don’t need my money or efforts. I will never give again.

    The school still manages to be good at sports. But strangely its still the Asian and White sports. Tennis, golf, cross country, volleyball, water polo dominate.

    As the money raising efforts continue, the interesting metric is that its the women’s sports like volleyball and softball that are donating the most. I guess they were right. The future is female.

    This has to be CMC.

  68. @Canadian Observer
    A few observations.

    I think hockey scholarships are the number one way people from English Canada can enter the Ivy Leagues. I personally know of three guys who went that route. They either end up playing later in the NHL or if not good enough go into Wall Street/Bay Street.

    It’s good in a way that the Ivy Leagues don’t maintain big marquee football programmes which lead to mass recruiting of young black men on campus. It causes a dynamic you don’t want. Here in Canada at the second-tier universities, it seems around 80% of the female athletes are white, while around 50% of the male athletes are black or mulatto. They’re always being encouraged to fraternize with one another at parties, athletic banquet dinners, etc. Although the Ivies certainly preach diversity on a macro level, my guess is that they strive to minimize this interracial sexual dynamic on campus.

    Thirdly, the Ivies still at some level are promoting the well-rounded gentleman scholar via niche sports that few people outside their orbit play as a way of signalling to the rubes that these colleges are meant for a certain subset while minimizing, at least to a degree, the numbers of nebbish Jews being admitted.

    My first impression was that you were wrong- there weren’t THAT many Canadians in the Ivies , but I was wrong- a quick and dirty survey suggests that about 35% of the men playing hockey in the Ivies are Canadian, with Princeton and Cornell the most (unsurprising in the case of Cornell, which has always been heavily Canadian) and Dartmouth the least. I didn’t separate out the Frenchies, but my many years of being an NCAA fan tell me that there aren’t many Quebecois- the occasional Martin St. Louis notwithstanding.

    Back when I was a nipper North Dakota and Denver (NOT Ivies) were notorious for their rosters full of 28 year olds from Alberta and Saskatchewan. For a kid from Swift Current or Spirit River Grand Forks must have seemed like New York City!

  69. @Reg Cæsar

    Oh that’s bad. The designer had to fired for that one.

    The second one to the right doesn’t look too happy either.
     
    The third from the right is the designer. She's the tallest and fairest, and perhaps the most dominant.

    Oh jeez.

  70. “Princeton is for jocks” is the old stereotype that I remember. It’s probably also the most prototypical Ivy League college, less obsessed with research and graduate programs.

    I went to Cornell and I don’t remember much craze over sports. The white kids on campus were mad over ice hockey whose games all sold out. But other sports including football barely attracted any spectator interest.

    The only other things I remember are that they don’t officially offer athletic scholarships (and very few academic scholarships), but they make up for this by offering generous need based aide packages to athletes that they want to recruit.

    And what Rick Singer figured out to exploit was common knowledge. The coaches present a list of athletes that they want and as long as these people reach some minimum academic standard (which is higher than State-U but lower than the average Ivy League candidate), the admissions committee has little room to object.

    • Replies: @Twinkie

    “Princeton is for jocks” is the old stereotype that I remember. It’s probably also the most prototypical Ivy League college, less obsessed with research and graduate programs.

    I went to Cornell and I don’t remember much craze over sports.
     
    You went to the least Ivy-like of the Ivies, probably the most studious of the Ivies (and with the highest suicide rate, I think).

    Princeton is the quintessential Ivy League university that Harvard and Yale used to be, but aren't. It's the least hostile to Trads and conservatives among the Ivies. It has Robbie George, after all.
  71. @William Badwhite
    I'd guess one of the worst showings by a Prez candidate in his own state has to be Trump. I'm too lazy to look it up though.

    I’d guess one of the worst showings by a Prez candidate in his own state has to be Trump. I’m too lazy to look it up though.

    However, his opponent was technically a New Yorker, too, as Willkie and Dewey were. Losing your state to an outsider is more embarrassing.

    Mondale just squeaked by, thanks to his relatives and neighbors. Reagan’s loss in Minnesota was three % points better than Hillary’s win.

    This “treemap” shows that Trump won 30 of his state’s 32 least populous counties, while losing four of the five largest:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election_in_New_York#/media/File:United_States_presidential_election_in_New_York,_2016.svg

  72. @kaganovitch
    I think it depends on the neighborhood. In ethnic enclaves like Italian Bensonhurst they might.

    kaganovitch:

    Although being nudged by non-threatening Chinese, I was surprised (and happy) to see via Wikipedia that the Bensonhurst Italians are still holding out!

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    It's being squeezed on the periphery by Chinese as you say. The population is skewed quite a bit older though, as housing prices are preventing young couples from buying in the neighborhood. All in all, it's holding on as an Italian enclave but its future is uncertain.
  73. @Foreign Expert
    Interesting that Noble and Greenough produced so many athletes. It is (unusually) a five-day boarding school, meaning that the kids go home on weekends. It is located very close to Boston. The campus has extensive athletic facilities but so do most New England boarding schools (like ice rinks for the hockey teams).

    My eldest son (soccer player) went to the annual spring Premier soccer tourney there. We marveled at their locker rooms/athletic complexes as they allowed teams who played 2+ games to take a shower before heading back (last day of tourney, and hopefully after winning in the final :), to various New England states.

    My boys where public HS kids, but they had friends from various backgrounds – Premier teams are sort of based on players from various towns. In fact, my son’s team had immigrants and low income kids, among 2 prep school kids, who all became very successful by playing soccer beautifully, and landing scholarships and spots on teams in college.

    Of course, the public HS teammates would not be allowed to play on their autumn varsity HS team if they were terrible students – and, they have to sign contracts to behave. The teamwork, year ’round, also led to all of them succeeding, now their late 20’s. Once in a while, I run into one of those boys, and, it is a good feeling when I know they have done well. So, sports are good. I really miss the Premier soccer parents; we had a lot of fun on those road trip games.

  74. A local wealthy ex-jock pointed out several years ago that the LOSING team in the National Championship for college football had a 15% increase in applications and a 6% increase in donations the next year.

  75. I heard that a big reason for admitting lots of athletes is the need to have a happy bottom quarter of the class. If all were admitted on intellect, the bottom 1/4 would be people who got all A’s in high school and will commit suicide when they find themselves a failure in class in college, because that’s their identity: the smart kid. A jock who is in the bottom 1/4, though, is happy. He knows he’s good at athletics, and he’s never been top of the class, so he can move from A’s to B’s without feeling worthless.

  76. @Dan Hayes
    kaganovitch:

    Although being nudged by non-threatening Chinese, I was surprised (and happy) to see via Wikipedia that the Bensonhurst Italians are still holding out!

    It’s being squeezed on the periphery by Chinese as you say. The population is skewed quite a bit older though, as housing prices are preventing young couples from buying in the neighborhood. All in all, it’s holding on as an Italian enclave but its future is uncertain.

    • Replies: @Dan Hayes
    kaganovitch:

    Thanks for your front-line report. Very much appreciated.

  77. @Screwtape
    Long story bro. I also have some experience in development on a kind of tertiary level as an ‘athlete alumni’ for my west coast Ivy-like college.

    Before the diversity hydra took over and it was sort of ok to be white, my college selected for student-athletes. Some 60% of the student body participated in a sport.

    The mantra was about recruiting ‘leaders’ and well-rounded students. Athletic participation (and high performance) was a meaningful differentiator when the applicant pool all have 1400 SATs and 4.0GPA.

    Plus, historically this worked. The school punched way above its weight because these average-ish on the outside but sharp, scrappy, and full of gumption kids that probably wouldn’t have gotten into an Ivy - or rather would have hated the ‘culture’ there, would end end up thriving.

    Many of these student-athletes, myself included were recruited upon graduation into consulting, investment banking, law, academia, and public policy. This made for a pretty good ROI in terms of wealth creation aka future donations.

    More importantly, the shared culture and experiences of being a student-athlete at this really unique school that outperformed all its peers created a very strong bond. And loyalty. We were a tight community of lifelong friends who all gave back to the school in many ways.

    But over the last decade this has changed substantially in terms of converting student-athlete alumni into big - or even just regular, donors.

    The admin is busy head scratching over this. They lean on the athletic department now to incorporate development into their alumni outreach. Eg “big game this weekend [click here to donate]”

    I’ve been exposed to these efforts as an alumni as well as a kind of liaison to help the new effort to mine the athletic alumni network for cash.

    But for the Admin to address the issue they would have to soul-search. In other words notice what is illegal to notice.

    They are in the same heretical paradox as our own leaders in business and gov’t. And are responding predictably the same. Sad.

    The religion of multiculti diversity go-gurrrl politk has killed the golden goose. But they can’t work against this religion. And with so much attention on the diversity metric as an indication of holiness, they can’t even do it on the sly.

    So as one of the golden gooses that graduated years ago, I no longer recognize my alma mater.

    The unique greatness that I experienced is still there but it is a skeleton of its former self.

    Instead, I just see another institution liquidating its collateral as it sells out to the progressive agenda, backfilling the dead culture with globalist garbage. Sure they are still rich and still ranked among the best, but these are not “my people”.

    When I attended my school it was an 80% white, middle-class, male-dominated hardscrabble west-coast culture of smart jocks that flourished in a highly-competitive quasi-fraternal open-source and rather spartan environment. Almost like a casual, preppy special forces military-style culture. Basically it mirrored America in the pre-90’s.

    When I started in I-banking I was like, “I know this drill” and so getting up at 5:30 am for practice flowed by rigorous academic work among super smart and ambitious people, toiling all day then hammering some beers at night was totally normal.

    Fast forward. Years of title IX war on men, war on white, ‘diversity initiatives’, pressure from its peer colleges to conform, and entryism of lefty globalists using the avenues of the colleges core academic emphasis on practical applications of economics and gov’t to peddle their poison have strangled the culture into a homogenized rainbow of rich kids, commies, and angry entitled and envious POCs that to be frank are just aren’t good enough. Hence the anger.

    In my days, before all the weird extra-curricular stuff and the helicopter parent generation started resume stuffing their 10y/o wonderkin, things like eagle scout and all-american swimmer actually held weight.

    Now there is a lot more noise in the system, including more SAT aces and GPAs over 4. And, of course, the ‘international’ students with their fake transcripts and tuition checks paid in full.

    While athletics is still a differentiator, it has become more of a diversity valve because somehow the non-Asian POCs still don’t produce the numbers on paper. So I question if I would get in these days, being an evil white man playing a evil white sport.

    After a dustup a few years back when some POCs chimped out over some imagined issue, the admin caved and so now the anti-white male flogging has been fully institutionalized.

    The have a diversity office and a bunch of safe space bullshit and spend all kinds of money on coddling the angry dark ballast of progress.

    So they don’t need my money or efforts. I will never give again.

    The school still manages to be good at sports. But strangely its still the Asian and White sports. Tennis, golf, cross country, volleyball, water polo dominate.

    As the money raising efforts continue, the interesting metric is that its the women’s sports like volleyball and softball that are donating the most. I guess they were right. The future is female.

    The school still manages to be good at sports. But strangely its still the Asian and White sports. Tennis, golf, cross country, volleyball, water polo dominate.

    For my alma mater and others like it, rowing, lacrosse, swimming, soccer, and wrestling were big.

  78. @Australoid
    "Princeton is for jocks" is the old stereotype that I remember. It's probably also the most prototypical Ivy League college, less obsessed with research and graduate programs.

    I went to Cornell and I don't remember much craze over sports. The white kids on campus were mad over ice hockey whose games all sold out. But other sports including football barely attracted any spectator interest.

    The only other things I remember are that they don't officially offer athletic scholarships (and very few academic scholarships), but they make up for this by offering generous need based aide packages to athletes that they want to recruit.

    And what Rick Singer figured out to exploit was common knowledge. The coaches present a list of athletes that they want and as long as these people reach some minimum academic standard (which is higher than State-U but lower than the average Ivy League candidate), the admissions committee has little room to object.

    “Princeton is for jocks” is the old stereotype that I remember. It’s probably also the most prototypical Ivy League college, less obsessed with research and graduate programs.

    I went to Cornell and I don’t remember much craze over sports.

    You went to the least Ivy-like of the Ivies, probably the most studious of the Ivies (and with the highest suicide rate, I think).

    Princeton is the quintessential Ivy League university that Harvard and Yale used to be, but aren’t. It’s the least hostile to Trads and conservatives among the Ivies. It has Robbie George, after all.

  79. @kaganovitch
    It's being squeezed on the periphery by Chinese as you say. The population is skewed quite a bit older though, as housing prices are preventing young couples from buying in the neighborhood. All in all, it's holding on as an Italian enclave but its future is uncertain.

    kaganovitch:

    Thanks for your front-line report. Very much appreciated.

  80. It is not just Ivy League schools. My alma mater (Cal) has the most NCAA national championship wins in Rugby, with a capital “R.”

    Plus, we invented the atom bomb.

    Who cares if we haven’t been to the Rose Bowl since 1959?

  81. Silly me, I thought Ivy League has always been a sports league. Complutense Uni has as many Nobels as the far richer Brown. Since Providence is a shithole compared to Alcala, all that Brown has for it is sports.

  82. @Charles Pewitt

    ivy league universities literally invented football.

     

    Princeton vs Rutgers 1869

    Rutgers won 6 to 4 over Princeton

    Rutgers ain't Ivy League. They got some Ivy on the eaves, though. IV therapy for dehydrated and hungover Rutgers students too.

    Rutgers belonged in the Ivy League much more than Cornell did.

  83. @William Badwhite
    I'd guess one of the worst showings by a Prez candidate in his own state has to be Trump. I'm too lazy to look it up though.

    AFAIK Taft had the worst performance, earning only 27% of the vote in his reelection campaign in Ohio compared to the winner Woodrow Wilson with 41%. Since Taft came in 3rd nationally I don’t know if you would count this.

    Strictly speaking Nixon lost his “home” state of New York in 1968, but obviously he is considered a Californian.

    In 2016 both major candidates considered New York to be their home state, so someone had to lose. I don’t know what state I would most associate Hillary with. She was born in Illinois, but lived in Arkansas after marrying Bill.

  84. @jon
    Back in the late 1980's, Columbia became famous for having the worst football team, maybe of all time, but at least of that decade. They even got a Sports Illustrated cover story, if I remember correctly. They didn't win a single game for 2-3 years, or something awful like that.

    During that period, was there any noticeable decline in applications? In donations? In any other measure of school worth/status/etc.? Did improvements follow once the football team improved?

    They went 0-44-3 between wins during a period from 1983-88. Maybe, contrary to hurting the university’s reputation, it improved it — due to publicity, fun, and the lovable-losers theme they cultivated:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Lions_football#The_Streak

  85. @Twinkie
    I worked at the development office of my Ivy alma mater as a student. Granted it was a few decades ago, but I don’t think things have changed much since then.* Ivy League athletes definitely display higher loyalty to their almae matres than the average students. They tend to have more friends (teams and fraternities) from college than ordinary students, show up for university events at higher frequencies, and indeed donate more on average.

    Furthermore, prior to the rise of the IT industry juggernaut, they were consistently more likely to become corporate executives or work in the financial services industries, some of which preferentially recruited athletes from top tier universities including the Ivies. I think the rationale was Ivies = smart enough and athlete = aggressive/risk-taking.

    *What’s changed now is IT. That’s where increasingly the big money has been since my days in college. And the Ivy graduates who work in that field are quite different from the former-athlete corporate executive or bond-trader types.

    Agreed. Athletes, even in the Ivy League, tend to cluster in their own sub-culture on campus: the major sports have their own fraternities, athletes tend to congregate in the same (slightly less rigorous) majors, and they socialize together.

    They are the alpha males of the campus (not sure about female athletes); it’s not surprising that that persona combined with the loyalty and community/networking aspects — which persists into the job market, where they are definitely clustered in lucrative Wall Street-type jobs — result in a lot of factors that make them more likely to donate down the line.

    A friend recently spent some time at U. Michigan, where the same trend exists, or at least did in the 70s-80s. The former football players were an impressive bunch. A lot of them became successful businesspeople in the area and remained very engaged with the school.

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