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Whose Statues Should be in the National Garden of American Heroes?
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Trump wants to build in D.C. an outdoor statue garden, one that would presumably be a regular tourist stop, along with the Lincoln Memorial and the like. So far, the White House says:

“The National Garden should be composed of statues, including statues of John Adams, Susan B. Anthony, Clara Barton, Daniel Boone, Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, Henry Clay, Davy Crockett, Frederick Douglass, Amelia Earhart, Benjamin Franklin, Billy Graham, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, Martin Luther King, Jr., Abraham Lincoln, Douglas MacArthur, Dolley Madison, James Madison, Christa McAuliffe, Audie Murphy, George S. Patton, Jr., Ronald Reagan, Jackie Robinson, Betsy Ross, Antonin Scalia, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Harriet Tubman, Booker T. Washington, George Washington, and Orville and Wilbur Wright.”

Not a bad list. I wouldn’t be surprised if the inclusion of Union Army hero Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain and the Wright Brothers were inspired by my 2010 review of 1277 page Advanced Placement U.S. history textbook that didn’t mention either one. I mean, besides the fact that they were awesome and that leaving them out of a history textbook seems like an intentional effort to keep boys from being interested in American history.

As for additions from science and technology:

For Hispanic American heroes, how about the Alvarezes, father and son, who figured out what killed the dinosaurs? You want monuments that kids can get into, and the scientists who figured out that a comet wiped out the dinosaurs is guaranteed to appeal to children.

A statue of Edison and Tesla. (In general, I like statues of rivals together. It’s not a very 2020 idea, but the notion that thesis and antithesis makes us stronger is a worthy lesson.) Trump’s uncle, the MIT physicist, was sent by J. Edgar Hoover to investigate Tesla’s hotel suite upon his death in 1943 to see if Tesla had invented any war-winning Death Rays. He hadn’t, but that’s the most comic bookish true fact ever.

I’d like to see a statue of Richard Feynman dunking a Space Shuttle O-ring in a glass of ice water. It’s worth noting that Feynman didn’t himself figure out why the Challenger blew up. The polyester short sleeve shirts with pocket protector guys at Morton Thiokol already knew what had gone wrong. But they saw that the suits were going to rig the inquiry. So they asked each other: Who on the Commission can we explain the facts to?

Claude Shannon found a trillion dollar bill lying on the sidewalk in his 1938 M.S. thesis: Hey, electrical engineers, did you ever think you could just adapt wholesale the last 75 years of Boolean binary logic rather than reinventing the wheel each time? And then he topped it in 1948 with his Information Theory.

 
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  1. (In general, I like statues of rivals together. It’s not a very 2020 idea, but the notion that thesis and antithesis makes us stronger is a worthy lesson.)

    This has been the traditional British approach to Gladstone and Disraeli. In Westminster Abbey, there are statues of them near one another (at least for however long Gladstone is allowed to remain up). In the National Portrait Gallery, their pictures are next to one another.

  2. There should be a statue of Thomas Pynchon, who famously said, (I have to paraphrase here), “There are rooms and rooms and rooms filled with people who are working tirelessly, day and night, to murder you… and a few of them actually know it.”

    • Agree: Kyle
    • LOL: Kronos
    • Replies: @al gore rhythms
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    I once tried to read 'the crying of lot 49' but it's one of the few novels I had to give up on. I found it totally unreadable. But your quote is interesting and makes me think I was too hasty. Is this a quote from one of his novels?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

  3. Ron Paul. Maurice Hilleman. (Neither of whom would want that level of idolatry.) And hundreds of others – a forest of statuary. And a million unknowns:

    “Not a day passes over the earth, but men and women of no note do great deeds, speak great words and suffer noble sorrows.” ~ Charles Reade

    Here’s to the tomb of The Unknown Citizen, a hero in his area, unknown to the rest of humanity; the glue that holds society together:

    “Civilization is a stream with banks. The stream is sometimes filled with blood from people killing, stealing, shouting and doing things historians usually record; while on the banks, unnoticed, people build homes, make love, raise children, sing songs, write poetry and even whittle statues. The story of civilization is the story of what happened on the banks. Historians are pessimists because they ignore the banks of the river.”
    ~ Will and Ariel Durant, “The Story of Civilization”

    • Thanks: Charon
    • Replies: @Cortes
    @Bard of Bumperstickers

    The Unknown Citizen is a great idea, like Ecclesiastes and

    “15Now a poor wise man was found in the city, and he saved the city by his wisdom. Yet no one remembered that poor man. 16And I said, “Wisdom is better than strength, but the wisdom of the poor man is despised, and his words are not heeded.”

    Essentially the same as “It’s A Wonderful Life.”

    , @TomSchmidt
    @Bard of Bumperstickers

    That Durant quote was a favorite of Jude Wanniski. I still like it. I keep looking for the Mao quote that says something similar and includes the line "women will continue to birth children." Any ideas?

  4. iSteve

    • Agree: Bubba, Old Prude
    • Replies: @Kronos
    @Inquiring Mind

    Remember, Steve’s height might make that cost prohibitive. To make a statue well proportioned to the human template, you need the right quantity of material to construct it. Statues of tall people simply cost more.

    Can’t we just make heroes out of short people and save money on the material/labor costs?

    (I’d imagine statues of fat people are an engineering nightmare.)

    http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/128000/Short-Statue-of-Liberty--128280.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/236x/8c/99/31/8c99319b22324352e23d56ddcd09fec7.jpg

  5. I say sell the naming rights like we do with stadiums.

  6. I’d be very happy if the concept was expanded to Western Civilization generally rather than just the United States. I think that would be a great step to putting the current struggle in its proper context. It would also reduce the risk of the project being hijacked to feature MLK and Booker T. Washington and the great american inventors. (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=great+american+inventor&t=brave&iax=images&ia=images)

  7. The College Board (and I speak with some authority here, as I was a button man in the AP Mafia) which meets all the criteria for an organized criminal conspiracy under the RICO statutes, has made it its goal in life to make history less interesting for boys. The dirty secret is that girls are not really all that interested in the multiculturegenderfair crap either. Happy to be retired.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @ganderson


    The College Board (and I speak with some authority here, as I was a button man in the AP Mafia) which meets all the criteria for an organized criminal conspiracy under the RICO statutes, has made it its goal in life to make history less interesting for boys.
     
    How so?

    What is a “button man in the AP Mafia”?

    Replies: @Ganderson

  8. Norman Borlaug is one that could be included and whose inclusion would likely face little resistance from the powers that be, despite him being a (dead, like all others) white male.

    If one thinks the inclusions of Claude Shannon and the Alvarez father-and-son duo would be judged appropriate, then Walter Brattain’s and John Bardeen’s inclusions could be, too. And Chatles Goodyear’s. And Josiah Willard Gibbs’.

    …And Linus Pauling. And Glenn T. Seaborg. Gilbert N. Lewis. Wallace Carothers. And… maybe I’m missing the point… oh well.

    There are some women worthy of note, too. Barbara McClintock is one I can mention from the top of my head. (Rosalind Franklin and Mary Lyon were English)

    I might be biased towards geneticists…

    Speaking of genetics, two American pioneers in that field who don’t have a chance in hell of being included, not counting the stubbornly still-living James Watson, are Thomas Hunt Morgan and Kary B. Mullis. One might figure out why.

    And I wonder why the POC brigade didn’t cancel the Wright brothers yet. As we all well know, the airplane was invented by my fellow Brazilian Alberto Santos=Dumont.

    • Agree: Not Raul
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @adreadline


    Norman Borlaug is one that could be included and whose inclusion would likely face little resistance from the powers that be, despite him being a (dead, like all others) white male.
     
    Why should we honor a man whose work led to an over-populated Earth and a third-world tied to big petrochemical based agriculture?

    Replies: @adreadline

  9. How about a statue to former CA’s favorite son Lewis Terman?

  10. Anonymous[710] • Disclaimer says:

    Robert E. Lee

    iSteve

    Ricky Vaughn

    Ron Unz

  11. Anonymous[710] • Disclaimer says:
    @ganderson
    The College Board (and I speak with some authority here, as I was a button man in the AP Mafia) which meets all the criteria for an organized criminal conspiracy under the RICO statutes, has made it its goal in life to make history less interesting for boys. The dirty secret is that girls are not really all that interested in the multiculturegenderfair crap either. Happy to be retired.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    The College Board (and I speak with some authority here, as I was a button man in the AP Mafia) which meets all the criteria for an organized criminal conspiracy under the RICO statutes, has made it its goal in life to make history less interesting for boys.

    How so?

    What is a “button man in the AP Mafia”?

    • Replies: @Ganderson
    @Anonymous

    Apparently I‘m not as clever As I think I am. I feel the AP is a bad organization, like a Mafia family. I used to be a reader (one who grades the essays on the AP US History exam). I did it because I thought it would help me help my students do better on the test. So I was the equivalent of an ordinary soldier, or “ button man”.

  12. If we include American scientists, engineers and mathematicians, there’s a real embarrassment of riches.

    Robert Noyce, John Bardeen, W. Edwards Deming, Josiah Willard Gibbs, Emmy Noether, John Tukey, John Backus, Robert Millikan, John Von Neumann, John Nash, Vannevar Bush, Irving Langmuir, Ernest Lawrence.

    And that’s just me rattling off a few names off the top of my head.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    @PiltdownMan

    Spot on with Josiah Willard Gibbs.

    The Edison/Tesla yarn is a strangely parochial affair. As a Wikipedia article describes, almost all the first early advances in electrical lighting and power had nothing to do with either of them, having happened outside the USA.

    It's as if some fool decided to write the history of universities by focussing on Oxford vs Cambridge when universities actually started in Italy.

    Douglas MacArthur and George S. Patton also seem odd choices to me. Why not Ike, who had the twin advantages of being both sane and a consistently successful generalissimo?

    Replies: @BenKenobi, @Jefferson Temple

    , @Bert
    @PiltdownMan

    David Crockett should not make the list. He was a middling politician, not a frontiersman. The de la Pena account of what he witnessed during Santa Anna's attempt to reconquer Texas is strong evidence that Crockett surrendered at the Alamo rather than fighting to the death like almost all of the other defenders, presumably because of a politician's conceit that he could talk his way out of any corner.

    To recognize the dominant role of the USA in evolutionary biology's development, Ernst Mayr or E. O. Wilson would be worthy members of the list.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @FPD72

    , @SunBakedSuburb
    @PiltdownMan

    How about Walt Disney's friend, Wernher von Braun? Thanks to von Braun the Nazi element within NASA was able to establish a base on Mars October 13, 1973. Communication with the base was lost November 3, 1973.

  13. Anon[111] • Disclaimer says:

    So you’re thinking of a sort of American version of the Nobel Prize put through a Hollywood Wax Museum filter, except you have to be dead instead of alive?

    After the initial population of the garden, new statues could be announced annually in various categories from among those dead for at least X years.

  14. @PiltdownMan
    If we include American scientists, engineers and mathematicians, there's a real embarrassment of riches.

    Robert Noyce, John Bardeen, W. Edwards Deming, Josiah Willard Gibbs, Emmy Noether, John Tukey, John Backus, Robert Millikan, John Von Neumann, John Nash, Vannevar Bush, Irving Langmuir, Ernest Lawrence.

    And that's just me rattling off a few names off the top of my head.

    Replies: @dearieme, @Bert, @SunBakedSuburb

    Spot on with Josiah Willard Gibbs.

    The Edison/Tesla yarn is a strangely parochial affair. As a Wikipedia article describes, almost all the first early advances in electrical lighting and power had nothing to do with either of them, having happened outside the USA.

    It’s as if some fool decided to write the history of universities by focussing on Oxford vs Cambridge when universities actually started in Italy.

    Douglas MacArthur and George S. Patton also seem odd choices to me. Why not Ike, who had the twin advantages of being both sane and a consistently successful generalissimo?

    • Replies: @BenKenobi
    @dearieme

    I prefer my flag officers insane. If Patton had been permitted to wage his campaign against the Soviet Union and MacArthur had been permitted to nuke China I’d wager the world would be a much better place today.

    “We have to keep our boots polished and our bayonets sharpened against these Russians. Chickens in the coop and cows on the hoof, that’s their supply lines. They wouldn’t last three weeks in the action I could put to them.”
    - Patton, paraphrased, shortly before his mysterious death

    , @Jefferson Temple
    @dearieme

    You'd have to first address the historical charges against Ike. He stands accused of ordering a genocide of German POWs at the end of the war. You can't build a statue to him unless he can be convincingly cleared of all charges.

  15. @Bard of Bumperstickers
    Ron Paul. Maurice Hilleman. (Neither of whom would want that level of idolatry.) And hundreds of others - a forest of statuary. And a million unknowns:

    "Not a day passes over the earth, but men and women of no note do great deeds, speak great words and suffer noble sorrows." ~ Charles Reade

    Here's to the tomb of The Unknown Citizen, a hero in his area, unknown to the rest of humanity; the glue that holds society together:

    “Civilization is a stream with banks. The stream is sometimes filled with blood from people killing, stealing, shouting and doing things historians usually record; while on the banks, unnoticed, people build homes, make love, raise children, sing songs, write poetry and even whittle statues. The story of civilization is the story of what happened on the banks. Historians are pessimists because they ignore the banks of the river.”
    ~ Will and Ariel Durant, "The Story of Civilization"

    Replies: @Cortes, @TomSchmidt

    The Unknown Citizen is a great idea, like Ecclesiastes and

    “15Now a poor wise man was found in the city, and he saved the city by his wisdom. Yet no one remembered that poor man. 16And I said, “Wisdom is better than strength, but the wisdom of the poor man is despised, and his words are not heeded.”

    Essentially the same as “It’s A Wonderful Life.”

  16. Christa McAuliffe and Amelia Earhart should be removed and replaced with Thomas Edison and Henry Ford.

    • Replies: @S. Anonyia
    @Dr. X

    Oh, come on. Christa McAuliffe didn't really do much other than get sadly martyred to NASA's incompetence but Amelia Earhart is the best female on that list. Annie Oakley would be a nice addition, too.

    The founder of New Orleans should be acknowledged (Bienville). As should Lewis and Clark, and if you want to put a Native American in there, Sacajawea. The guy that founded New Mexico for Hispanics.

    Also why no FDR or Kennedy if they are throwing Reagan in there? Both are more historically significant than that puppet. Kennedy for the way his assassination changed the country, FDR for being in office 12 years, steering us through the Depression and WWII (for better or for worse).

    The list is skewed towards boring upright Yankees. There are lots of Southern and Western characters who weren't diehard slaveowners or otherwise problematic.

    And maybe I missed it, but why not Walt Disney?

    Replies: @prosa123, @Art Deco

    , @Anonymous
    @Dr. X


    Christa McAuliffe and Amelia Earhart should be removed and replaced with Thomas Edison and Henry Ford.
     
    Thomas "99% Perspiration" Edison? Really?

    Here is a better idea:

    Hedy Lamarr

    Actress with risquee track record AND genuine high-tech inventrix, dated Howard Hughes. If Hedy doesn't motivate boys to study STEM, nothing will.

    Lamarr invented a "frequency-hopping spread spectrum" communications system during WW II. The Navy promptly classified it as "red-hot" but judged that the idea was too complicated to be implemented at the time. The technique is in common use now.

  17. American inventors. We can rely on Google for providing us the top 10. Won’t be racially biased whatsoever.

  18. Trump’s choices for these sort of thing always seem peak boomer to me. Like a knowledge base informed purely by history channel shows

    Judith Resnik is 100% a better choice than McAuliffe for picking a Challenger fatality. Aside from the investigation showing she was fighting to keep the crew alive right up till impact while many of the others were frozen with fear or already dead, she was also a 10/10 babe with a great body, concert pianist, and electrical engineer. If you need your “female STEM” badass then there you go.

    The Alvarezes found the iridium layer yeah but what a humdrum choice. A bolide impact was already a popular theory for the KT extinction with geologists. The better choice for picking from America’s deceased geologists would be John Wesley Powell, whose story would be radically more exciting to young lads (and a much more visually interesting statue) than the Alvarezes. If you want an unknown who contributed greatly, then Harry Hess would be a good choice.

    MacArthur was a joke and history has not been kind to him. ADM Spruance would be a much better pick: he was the only American flag officer in WW2 that can fairly be compared to the top Axis talent like Manstein and Guderian.

    I’d like to see some kind of generic statue honoring men who had died in dangerous professions like coal miners etc, but that is probably too much to ask for.

    • Agree: Not Raul
    • Replies: @SafeNow
    @GeologyAnon Mk 2

    Yes, Challenger astronaut Judy Resnik over Challenger civilian McAuliffe. To your list of Resnik’s credentials, I would add her perfect 1600 on her SATs. The list has an anti-intelligence bias to it. (No Einstein, for example) The SATs are now facing elimination, and could use some affirmation. High schools are graduating 50 or 100 “valedictorians.” The U.S. is well into non-meritocracy; Idiocracy, in fact. (And btw, the 1600 was before the College Board, ahem, “recentered” the scoring to mask increasing stupidity.)

  19. They should also develop school curricula to coincide with the opening of the monument in order to educate our children about what these people did to merit inclusion.

    Some other worthy members might include:

    Theodore Roosevelt
    Stephen Foster
    Mark Twain
    Neil Armstrong
    Chuck Yeager
    Alexander Graham Bell
    Lewis and Clark
    Thomas Edison
    Henry Ford
    Nicola Tesla
    Frank Capra
    Elvis Presley
    Bob Hope
    Frank Sinatra
    Charles Lindbergh
    Albert Einstein
    Walt Disney
    Jesse Owens
    Jim Thorpe
    Michael Jordan

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @FozzieT

    Roosevelt, Twain, Armstrong, Yeager, Bell, Lewis & Clark, Edison, Ford, Lindbergh, and Disney should at least get through the first screen. Too soon for Sinatra. Einstein published the bulk of his papers (including the ones that landed him the Nobel) when he was residing in Germany and in Switzerland.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Liza
    @FozzieT

    Re STEPHEN FOSTER & CHARLES LINDBERGH

    I can't believe that Charles Lindbergh didn't make the first list.

    Anyway, as to Stephen Foster, how about placing the statue of him and his Negro banjo player into the proposed garden of American Heroes. Anyone who had anything to do with the removal of this beautiful monument of the greatest American songwriter ever should be burned at the stake - and I'll light the match.

    Anybody here suspicious that this garden will never come into existence?

    Demands for the statue to be removed intensified in 2017 after protests in Charlottesville, Virginia erupted over the proposed removal of the city's Confederate monuments. Pittsburgh's Art Commission held two public hearings to collect feedback from concerned citizens. The majority of attendees believed that the statue was racist and wanted to either relocate it or contextualize it in some way, while some attendees hoped that the statue would remain as it was and serve as a tribute to Foster's legacy.[3] The statue was removed on April 26, 2018 on the unanimous recommendation of the Art Commission.[1]

    A city-appointed Task Force on Women in Public Art called for the statue to be replaced with one honoring an African American woman with ties to the Pittsburgh community. from wikipedia.

    F*ck them all backwards, and painfully.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLexVfeSYm4

  20. Anonymous[270] • Disclaimer says:

    You know, James Watson is an American…

    Josiah Willard Gibbs’ contributions were monumental. In many ways comparable to Maxwell’s and Shannon’s. Feynman is probably a midget in comparison.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @Anonymous

    Anonymous[270] wrote:


    Josiah Willard Gibbs’ contributions were monumental. In many ways comparable to Maxwell’s and Shannon’s. Feynman is probably a midget in comparison
     
    Well... as a former student of Feynman's, I don't think "midget" quite works!

    Maxwell is almost at the same level of Newton and Darwin -- almost anyone is a midget compared to those guys. Gibbs is not in the same rank as Maxwell.

    And Shannon was really part of a brilliant team -- Harry Nyquist, Ralph Hartley, Richard Hamming, Hendrik Bode, Harold Black et al. -- that are still familiar names to electrical engineering students today. Okay, put them all in -- they largely made the digital world we live in today.

    Replies: @adreadline

  21. So they asked each other: Who on the Commission can we explain the facts to?

    In his autobiography (part 1 or 2 I forget which) Feynman supposes the general who asked him to be on the committee did so for that reason.

  22. Amelia Earhart but no Charles Lindbergh? I don’t hate the idea of an Earhart statue but it seems a bit patronizing to women to short Lindbergh as he was obviously the more important of the two. With Earhart’s reputation bolstered by our affirmative action history Lindbergh also has become more underappreciated, he name recognition on par with Earhart’s though they’re hardly comparable as historical figures. Admittedly Lindbergh’s a zillion times more “problematic” since he was a LITERAL NAZI or something.

  23. @Bard of Bumperstickers
    Ron Paul. Maurice Hilleman. (Neither of whom would want that level of idolatry.) And hundreds of others - a forest of statuary. And a million unknowns:

    "Not a day passes over the earth, but men and women of no note do great deeds, speak great words and suffer noble sorrows." ~ Charles Reade

    Here's to the tomb of The Unknown Citizen, a hero in his area, unknown to the rest of humanity; the glue that holds society together:

    “Civilization is a stream with banks. The stream is sometimes filled with blood from people killing, stealing, shouting and doing things historians usually record; while on the banks, unnoticed, people build homes, make love, raise children, sing songs, write poetry and even whittle statues. The story of civilization is the story of what happened on the banks. Historians are pessimists because they ignore the banks of the river.”
    ~ Will and Ariel Durant, "The Story of Civilization"

    Replies: @Cortes, @TomSchmidt

    That Durant quote was a favorite of Jude Wanniski. I still like it. I keep looking for the Mao quote that says something similar and includes the line “women will continue to birth children.” Any ideas?

  24. To build on your excellent thesis-antithesis idea if I were to erect a iSteve statue who would be your antithesis Mr Sailer? Ta-Nehisi? Malcolm Gladwell? Stevin Levitt?

    • Replies: @TontoBubbaGoldstein
    @MacRead

    Leonard Pitts.

  25. Bert says:
    @PiltdownMan
    If we include American scientists, engineers and mathematicians, there's a real embarrassment of riches.

    Robert Noyce, John Bardeen, W. Edwards Deming, Josiah Willard Gibbs, Emmy Noether, John Tukey, John Backus, Robert Millikan, John Von Neumann, John Nash, Vannevar Bush, Irving Langmuir, Ernest Lawrence.

    And that's just me rattling off a few names off the top of my head.

    Replies: @dearieme, @Bert, @SunBakedSuburb

    David Crockett should not make the list. He was a middling politician, not a frontiersman. The de la Pena account of what he witnessed during Santa Anna’s attempt to reconquer Texas is strong evidence that Crockett surrendered at the Alamo rather than fighting to the death like almost all of the other defenders, presumably because of a politician’s conceit that he could talk his way out of any corner.

    To recognize the dominant role of the USA in evolutionary biology’s development, Ernst Mayr or E. O. Wilson would be worthy members of the list.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Bert

    Because of dime novels.

    , @FPD72
    @Bert

    I’ll trade you Sam Houston for David Crockett. Sam even has the distinction of arduously fighting against Texas’s secession from the Union, so he won’t be canceled for Confederate loyalty. The only government he fought against was Mexico. He also should score some Wokemon points for time spent living with Native Americans and his marriage to a NA woman, although I guess he would lose some of those points for abandoning her when he headed to Texas.

  26. George Floyd, he’s replaced Jesus for some people. We could use one to “useful idiots” too. Where would the world be without useful idiots?

    • LOL: Kent Nationalist
  27. Its a big no to me on this project. Whatever happen to “balance the budget” Republicans? Plus anything Trump builds will be vandalized for perpetuity.

    • Agree: Travis
  28. Why do I have a creeping suspicion that by the time this thing actually gets built, it’ll look like a Google search for “American inventors”?

    • Agree: Hibernian, bruce county
  29. Audie Murphy (shot lots of foreigners and sang both types of music; country AND western)?

    Neil, Buzz and Mike (first to visit another planet – must be enough)?

    Werner von Braun (famous immigrant)?

    Churchill (who gave up our Empire for you)?

    Mason and Dixon (first Atlantic to Pacific surveyors)?

    Charles Lindbergh (famous aviator and pacifist)?

    Andy Johnson (Alaska)?

    Cleverly they already have MLK on the list as well as George S. Patton, no-one can ask to have Patton taken down for slapping that guy as unlike MLK it was only men he beat up!

  30. Any list of great Americans excluding George Washington Carver is meaningless. You’re not paying enough attention during Black History Month.

    • Agree: The Alarmist
  31. Science, technology, high culture….. although I prefer them over politicians & generals, they are not “heroes” in the conventional sense (therefore, I would dump H.B. Stowe, the Wright brothers & a few others from the Trump list). If one would include sciences (exact, social, humanist), technology & inventions, social reformers, high arts, perhaps entertainment, popular culture… I can come up with 300 names at least & the list turns out to be absurd.

    From old-fashioned heroes, I would add Andrew Jackson, Robert E. Lee, U.S. Grant, John Sherman, Charles Lindbergh, FDR, C.W. Nimitz, …

  32. James D. Watson is right out.

  33. anon[372] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s the wrong time to build monuments. You build monuments when most everyone agrees on who to celebrate. Right now everyone hates everyone else.

    I’m against any project that includes any blacks because:
    1. Blacks are only famous for being black and getting even with whites: MLK, Frederick Douglas, Harriet Tubman are examples.
    2. Why Jackie Robinson?- there were better ball players. Why Booker T Washington? There were better brains. They are only on the list because black. Why H.B. Stowe? She was a minor league novelist, but because she was a black lover she’s the only novelist on the list.
    The year 2020 has taken me beyond negro fatigue. I want them gone.

    Why most of the women on the list? They had minor achievements, but were women. Susan Anthony was a villain, not a hero. Amelia Earhart crashed. You want a woman, put Eudora Welty or Flannery O’Conner

    Names missing: Andrew Jackson, Hawthorne, Melville, Twain, Faulkner, Sitting Bull, Robert E Lee, Nathan Bedford Forest, many Founding Fathers, Huey Long, Elvis

    • Agree: SimpleSong
    • Replies: @RonaldB
    @anon

    Blacks should be included because they are an indelible part of our history. The purpose of the garden is not to choose who to immortalize, but to kindle a curiosity and pride in our history. The crisis with black identity and black demands is a huge part of our history and current reality. The presence of statues doesn't signify approval, but recognition of the importance of the person in developing US history. Jackie Robinson is perfectly appropriate. Sitting Bull is a good choice. I would like more Confederates: Jefferson Davis (not that I like him; he was a major force in crashing the Confederacy), Judah Benjamin. Remember, it's not who we like, but who most typifies the currents of history.

    , @GeologyAnon Mk 2
    @anon

    Good call on Twain. Would be great to put him next to Tesla, as they were close friends.

    Bedford Forrest is a moronic suggestion, as is Lee.

    Each service should get a set number, say four statues.

    Navy-- Spruance, Ernest Evans, Alan Shepherd, and the original madman John Paul Jones

    Marines-- Dan Dailey, Basilone, (chesty puller sucks) ?

    Army-- Grant, Ike, ?

    Air Force-- Yeager,Robin Olds, Boyd...?

    Also I think you have to include Walt Disney and Henry Ford

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @syonredux

  34. Wernher von Braun needs to be there. The man that got us to the moon, forever associating America with “Forever New Frontiers.”

    • Replies: @RonaldB
    @Joe Stalin

    von Braun was not American, and typified no American values. He was a glorified mechanic, brought over from Nazi Germany because he was useful. A genius, yes; American no. He has no place in a display of historic Americans.

  35. I vote for David Begelman. A true mensch in the Hollywood pantheon.

  36. How about all the Confederate statues that have been knocked down, didn’t hear fat ass mention them. If we can’t have a Southern heritage then we shouldn’t have any heritage. If the idiot in charge doesn’t protect the Confederate statues then phuck him, I won’t be voting for him, again.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Bob bob


    How about all the Confederate statues that have been knocked down, didn’t hear fat ass mention them. If we can’t have a Southern heritage then we shouldn’t have any heritage.
     
    This.
  37. Statues, eh?

    How about…

    HEAVEN PRODUCES MYRIADS
    OF THINGS TO NOURISH MAN.

    MAN NEVER DOES A BIT OF GOOD
    TO RECOMPENSE HEAVEN.

    KILL KILL KILL KILL
    KILL KILL KILL!

    Look it up.

  38. I notice there are no Confederates in the list.

    The North and the South reunited with the promise that the South would accept being loyal Americans, and in return be recognized as a full partner, including a recognition of its leaders as noble, even if mistaken, statemen and soldiers. The South has continued to provide more than its share of outstanding, epoch-making military, political, and civic leaders.

    The purpose of that statue garden is not to portray every noteworthy leader and builder in US history. It is to kindle a pride and curiosity in our history; those so inclined can embark on their own program of learning.

    Hopefully, the garden will be organized by historic eras: the Revolutionary War, the federalism debates, the slavery dispute (perhaps a statue of John Brown; a despicable man, but undeniably a huge part of history), the Civil War, Reconstruction, expansion of empire, World War I, Roaring 20’s, Depression, World War II, cold war, post-USSR.

  39. Anonymous[239] • Disclaimer says:
    @Bob bob
    How about all the Confederate statues that have been knocked down, didn't hear fat ass mention them. If we can't have a Southern heritage then we shouldn't have any heritage. If the idiot in charge doesn't protect the Confederate statues then phuck him, I won't be voting for him, again.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    How about all the Confederate statues that have been knocked down, didn’t hear fat ass mention them. If we can’t have a Southern heritage then we shouldn’t have any heritage.

    This.

  40. @anon
    It's the wrong time to build monuments. You build monuments when most everyone agrees on who to celebrate. Right now everyone hates everyone else.

    I'm against any project that includes any blacks because:
    1. Blacks are only famous for being black and getting even with whites: MLK, Frederick Douglas, Harriet Tubman are examples.
    2. Why Jackie Robinson?- there were better ball players. Why Booker T Washington? There were better brains. They are only on the list because black. Why H.B. Stowe? She was a minor league novelist, but because she was a black lover she's the only novelist on the list.
    The year 2020 has taken me beyond negro fatigue. I want them gone.

    Why most of the women on the list? They had minor achievements, but were women. Susan Anthony was a villain, not a hero. Amelia Earhart crashed. You want a woman, put Eudora Welty or Flannery O'Conner

    Names missing: Andrew Jackson, Hawthorne, Melville, Twain, Faulkner, Sitting Bull, Robert E Lee, Nathan Bedford Forest, many Founding Fathers, Huey Long, Elvis

    Replies: @RonaldB, @GeologyAnon Mk 2

    Blacks should be included because they are an indelible part of our history. The purpose of the garden is not to choose who to immortalize, but to kindle a curiosity and pride in our history. The crisis with black identity and black demands is a huge part of our history and current reality. The presence of statues doesn’t signify approval, but recognition of the importance of the person in developing US history. Jackie Robinson is perfectly appropriate. Sitting Bull is a good choice. I would like more Confederates: Jefferson Davis (not that I like him; he was a major force in crashing the Confederacy), Judah Benjamin. Remember, it’s not who we like, but who most typifies the currents of history.

    • Troll: 3g4me
  41. @Joe Stalin
    Wernher von Braun needs to be there. The man that got us to the moon, forever associating America with "Forever New Frontiers."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCMuGCM__5k

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX_FXsfc2Vw

    Replies: @RonaldB

    von Braun was not American, and typified no American values. He was a glorified mechanic, brought over from Nazi Germany because he was useful. A genius, yes; American no. He has no place in a display of historic Americans.

  42. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    There should be a statue of Thomas Pynchon, who famously said, (I have to paraphrase here), "There are rooms and rooms and rooms filled with people who are working tirelessly, day and night, to murder you... and a few of them actually know it."

    Replies: @al gore rhythms

    I once tried to read ‘the crying of lot 49’ but it’s one of the few novels I had to give up on. I found it totally unreadable. But your quote is interesting and makes me think I was too hasty. Is this a quote from one of his novels?

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @al gore rhythms

    His most recent novel, Bleeding Edge, is pretty accessible.

  43. @Bert
    @PiltdownMan

    David Crockett should not make the list. He was a middling politician, not a frontiersman. The de la Pena account of what he witnessed during Santa Anna's attempt to reconquer Texas is strong evidence that Crockett surrendered at the Alamo rather than fighting to the death like almost all of the other defenders, presumably because of a politician's conceit that he could talk his way out of any corner.

    To recognize the dominant role of the USA in evolutionary biology's development, Ernst Mayr or E. O. Wilson would be worthy members of the list.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @FPD72

    Because of dime novels.

  44. James Watson, Henry Ford, Lewis & Clark, maybe George Westinghouse or Andrew Carnegie

  45. No real Native Americans. Pocahontas, Tecumseh, Osceola, Cochise, Crazy Horse or Geronimo?

    You choose….

    I thought of Black Elk, but because he became a Catholic, that makes him something of a “traitor”.

  46. @anon
    It's the wrong time to build monuments. You build monuments when most everyone agrees on who to celebrate. Right now everyone hates everyone else.

    I'm against any project that includes any blacks because:
    1. Blacks are only famous for being black and getting even with whites: MLK, Frederick Douglas, Harriet Tubman are examples.
    2. Why Jackie Robinson?- there were better ball players. Why Booker T Washington? There were better brains. They are only on the list because black. Why H.B. Stowe? She was a minor league novelist, but because she was a black lover she's the only novelist on the list.
    The year 2020 has taken me beyond negro fatigue. I want them gone.

    Why most of the women on the list? They had minor achievements, but were women. Susan Anthony was a villain, not a hero. Amelia Earhart crashed. You want a woman, put Eudora Welty or Flannery O'Conner

    Names missing: Andrew Jackson, Hawthorne, Melville, Twain, Faulkner, Sitting Bull, Robert E Lee, Nathan Bedford Forest, many Founding Fathers, Huey Long, Elvis

    Replies: @RonaldB, @GeologyAnon Mk 2

    Good call on Twain. Would be great to put him next to Tesla, as they were close friends.

    Bedford Forrest is a moronic suggestion, as is Lee.

    Each service should get a set number, say four statues.

    Navy– Spruance, Ernest Evans, Alan Shepherd, and the original madman John Paul Jones

    Marines– Dan Dailey, Basilone, (chesty puller sucks) ?

    Army– Grant, Ike, ?

    Air Force– Yeager,Robin Olds, Boyd…?

    Also I think you have to include Walt Disney and Henry Ford

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @GeologyAnon Mk 2

    Air Force– Yeager,Robin Olds, Boyd…?

    Billy Mitchell, no?

    Replies: @GeologyAnon Mk 2

    , @syonredux
    @GeologyAnon Mk 2


    Air Force– Yeager,Robin Olds, Boyd…?
     
    Eddie Rickenbacker, the top American ace of the First World War:

    Edward Vernon Rickenbacker (October 8, 1890 – July 23, 1973) was an American fighter ace in World War I and a Medal of Honor recipient. With 26 aerial victories, he was the United States' most successful fighter ace in the war and is considered to have received the most awards for valor by an American during the war.[1] He was also a race car driver and automotive designer, a government consultant in military matters and a pioneer in air transportation, particularly as the long-time head of Eastern Air Lines.
     
    Yeah, I know, technically he was part of the Army, but come on....
  47. Whose Statues Should be in the National Garden of American Heroes?

    1. People whose accomplishments are palpable or quantifiable.

    2. People whose accomplishments are also (within a certain field) exceptional or peculiar. (Amelia Earhart is interesting, but it’s a reasonable wager you could find twenty other men and even a couple of other women who were at least her equal).

    3. People whose contributions were complete > 40 or 50 years ago. Need time for perspective, for fads to die out, and for contentious parties to die off or fall silent).

    4. Politicians only very sparingly.

  48. Rule number one. Nobody alive. If they are still breathing they can still molest a six year old.

    Guideline. Nobody who has been alive in anybody’s living memory. So nobody who lived past 1910. My high school American history teacher told us on the first day “if there are interested powerful parties still living then what is written in the books is not history. This class ends at 1940. Do not worry about the last three chapters in the book.”

  49. 1. John Adams (not sure)

    2. Susan B. Anthony (no)

    3. Clara Barton (OK)

    4. Daniel Boone (not sure)

    5. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain (not sure who this is)

    6. Henry Clay (no)

    7. Davy Crockett (not sure)

    8. Frederick Douglass (not sure)

    9. Amelia Earhart (no)

    10. Benjamin Franklin (yes)

    11. Billy Graham (too soon, dubious).

    12. Alexander Hamilton (yes)

    13, Thomas Jefferson (yes)

    14. Martin Luther King, Jr. (no)

    15. Abraham Lincoln (yes)

    16. Douglas MacArthur (yes)

    17. Dolley Madison (no)

    18. James Madison (yes)

    19. Christa McAuliffe (too soo, and a silly idea)

    20. Audie Murphy (not sure)

    21. George S. Patton (yes)

    22. Ronald Reagan (too soon)

    23. Jackie Robinson (no)

    24. Betsy Ross (no)

    25. Antonin Scalia (too soon).

    26. Harriet Beecher Stowe (no)

    27. Harriet Tubman (not sure; same deal with Audie Murphy).

    28. Booker T. Washington (not sure)

    29. George Washington (yes)

    30. Orville and Wilbur Wright. (not sure).

    Need more figures from industry and engineering. More military. Perhaps some innovators in municipal government. Perhaps some medical pioneers.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Art Deco

    You should read Daniel Boone's biography by Mack Faragher. His life was epic and he was one of the great leaders of the Appalachian people. His life and deeds were representative of the frontier/pioneering saga of American. His crossing of the Cumberland Gap into Kentucky initiated one of the great waves of western settlement.
    Stunningly, in is 80's, he made a long hunting trip westward with his grandsons and became one of the first to explore the Rocky Mountains.

    , @Buzz Mohawk
    @Art Deco


    John Adams (not sure)

    Orville and Wilbur Wright. (not sure).
     
    Seriously?

    I'm not sure about you.
    , @Saint Louis
    @Art Deco


    Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain (not sure who this is)
     
    Seriously? The hero of Gettysburg. Look him up.

    He was a college professor with no military experience. He volunteered for the Union army and was a general by the end of the war. He fought in 20 battles and was wounded 6 times, including an almost fatal wound (shot through the hip) at Petersburg.

    He later became governor of Maine. Definitely an amazing and heroic man.

    Replies: @Rapparee, @Dave Pinsen

  50. @GeologyAnon Mk 2
    Trump's choices for these sort of thing always seem peak boomer to me. Like a knowledge base informed purely by history channel shows

    Judith Resnik is 100% a better choice than McAuliffe for picking a Challenger fatality. Aside from the investigation showing she was fighting to keep the crew alive right up till impact while many of the others were frozen with fear or already dead, she was also a 10/10 babe with a great body, concert pianist, and electrical engineer. If you need your "female STEM" badass then there you go.

    The Alvarezes found the iridium layer yeah but what a humdrum choice. A bolide impact was already a popular theory for the KT extinction with geologists. The better choice for picking from America's deceased geologists would be John Wesley Powell, whose story would be radically more exciting to young lads (and a much more visually interesting statue) than the Alvarezes. If you want an unknown who contributed greatly, then Harry Hess would be a good choice.

    MacArthur was a joke and history has not been kind to him. ADM Spruance would be a much better pick: he was the only American flag officer in WW2 that can fairly be compared to the top Axis talent like Manstein and Guderian.

    I'd like to see some kind of generic statue honoring men who had died in dangerous professions like coal miners etc, but that is probably too much to ask for.

    Replies: @SafeNow

    Yes, Challenger astronaut Judy Resnik over Challenger civilian McAuliffe. To your list of Resnik’s credentials, I would add her perfect 1600 on her SATs. The list has an anti-intelligence bias to it. (No Einstein, for example) The SATs are now facing elimination, and could use some affirmation. High schools are graduating 50 or 100 “valedictorians.” The U.S. is well into non-meritocracy; Idiocracy, in fact. (And btw, the 1600 was before the College Board, ahem, “recentered” the scoring to mask increasing stupidity.)

  51. @Inquiring Mind
    iSteve

    Replies: @Kronos

    Remember, Steve’s height might make that cost prohibitive. To make a statue well proportioned to the human template, you need the right quantity of material to construct it. Statues of tall people simply cost more.

    Can’t we just make heroes out of short people and save money on the material/labor costs?

    (I’d imagine statues of fat people are an engineering nightmare.)

  52. Norman Borlaug
    John Chapman
    Irving Berlin
    Louis Armstrong
    Jim Thorpe

  53. Cesar Chavez, of course, for iSteve reasons.

  54. Harriet Tubman
    Booker T.
    George W. Carver
    Scott Joplin
    Emmett Till
    Jackie Robinson
    Louis Armstrong
    Rosa Parks
    Malcolm X
    MLK
    Muhammad Ali
    Hank Aaron
    Jesse Jackson
    Stevie Wonder
    Al Sharpton
    Rodney King
    Ice Cube
    Ice T (the rap-ist)
    Mike Tyson
    Oprah Winfrey
    Crystal Mangum
    Beyonce (invented twerking)
    Tupac Shakur
    Tiger Woods
    The Williams sisters
    Barack Hussein Obama
    Michelle Obama
    Malia Obama
    Malia’s sister
    Trayvon Martin
    Michael Brown
    George Floyd
    Rayshard Brooks

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen


    Rosa Parks
     
    Let's do this right, and have a bit more fun as well: Irene Morgan.
  55. OT- Eric Weinstein posing some good questions & hypotheses. You may agree or disagree,but he’s at least trying to breathe some fresh air in the by now somewhat stale affair…

    • Replies: @Bumpkin
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Wtf are you talking about? Not only is there almost nothing in there about Epstein, he simply repeats the bizarre talking point of the few Epstein defenders that the age of the girls was legal as far as they knew, then rambles about how scientific research is underfunded for awhile before saying that's why he wrote a tweet welcoming Epstein back when he got out of jail for soliciting teenagers for sexual acts. It's obvious to anyone with a brain that the entire clip is spirited hand-waving to justify that appalling tweet.

    He even goes on to say later in the larger video that your clip is from that he suspected that Israel was behind Epstein, and if so, only the few Mossad agents who decided that should be blamed not the entire Mossad.

    I wouldn't be surprised if this guy Weinstein was one of Epstein's jewish enablers, like Wexner and Brockman, and he's just trying to cover and explain his involvement by ostensibly being open about how he "suspected" Epstein was a spy all along.

  56. Casmir Pulaski. Trans revolutionary war hero.

  57. anon[372] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco
    1. John Adams (not sure)

    2. Susan B. Anthony (no)

    3. Clara Barton (OK)

    4. Daniel Boone (not sure)

    5. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain (not sure who this is)

    6. Henry Clay (no)

    7. Davy Crockett (not sure)

    8. Frederick Douglass (not sure)

    9. Amelia Earhart (no)

    10. Benjamin Franklin (yes)

    11. Billy Graham (too soon, dubious).

    12. Alexander Hamilton (yes)

    13, Thomas Jefferson (yes)

    14. Martin Luther King, Jr. (no)

    15. Abraham Lincoln (yes)

    16. Douglas MacArthur (yes)

    17. Dolley Madison (no)

    18. James Madison (yes)

    19. Christa McAuliffe (too soo, and a silly idea)

    20. Audie Murphy (not sure)

    21. George S. Patton (yes)

    22. Ronald Reagan (too soon)

    23. Jackie Robinson (no)

    24. Betsy Ross (no)

    25. Antonin Scalia (too soon).

    26. Harriet Beecher Stowe (no)

    27. Harriet Tubman (not sure; same deal with Audie Murphy).

    28. Booker T. Washington (not sure)

    29. George Washington (yes)

    30. Orville and Wilbur Wright. (not sure).


    Need more figures from industry and engineering. More military. Perhaps some innovators in municipal government. Perhaps some medical pioneers.

    Replies: @anon, @Buzz Mohawk, @Saint Louis

    You should read Daniel Boone’s biography by Mack Faragher. His life was epic and he was one of the great leaders of the Appalachian people. His life and deeds were representative of the frontier/pioneering saga of American. His crossing of the Cumberland Gap into Kentucky initiated one of the great waves of western settlement.
    Stunningly, in is 80’s, he made a long hunting trip westward with his grandsons and became one of the first to explore the Rocky Mountains.

  58. What is the sense of having a National Statue garden if in a few years no kid currently in school would know who the were.

    • Agree: JMcG
    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Buffalo Joe

    "a National Statue garden"

    How about a garden without statues but full of bees?

  59. The National Garden should be composed of statues, including statues of John Adams, Susan B. Anthony, Clara Barton, Daniel Boone, Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, Henry Clay, Davy Crockett, Frederick Douglass, Amelia Earhart, Benjamin Franklin, Billy Graham, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, Martin Luther King, Jr., Abraham Lincoln, Douglas MacArthur, Dolley Madison, James Madison, Christa McAuliffe, Audie Murphy, George S. Patton, Jr., Ronald Reagan, Jackie Robinson, Betsy Ross, Antonin Scalia, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Harriet Tubman, Booker T. Washington, George Washington, and Orville and Wilbur Wright.”

    As Steve noted, it’s not a bad list, but it could be better. Some ideas:

    Toss the South a bone: What with the anti-Confederate mania sweeping the nation, the South is taking a lot of punches to the gut. So let’s add some distinguished Southerners: Edgar Allan Poe (inventor of the detective story, the key figure in the development of the short story), Thomas Hunt Morgan (probably the greatest American biologist), and William Faulkner (probably the greatest 20th century American novelist).

    What about the Italians: Scalia’s probably tossed in there to appease Italian-Americans over the loss of Columbus, so why not add in Frank Capra, the man who directed classic films like It Happened One Night, Lost Horizon, Mr Smith Goes To Washington, and It’s A Wonderful Life?

    Not enough artistic and scientific figures: As others have noted, Josiah Willard Gibbs (the man that Einstein called the greatest mind in American history) definitely deserves to be there. I’d also add:Charles Sanders Peirce, Sewall Wright, Edison, Samuel Morse, and Claude Shannon.For artistic/literary figures, I would put in: Hawthorne, Twain, Winslow Homer, Edward Hopper, Orson Welles, and Melville.

    Where’s the Navy: Too many Army guys. We need some naval heroes: Stephen Decatur, Raymond A. Spruance, Isaac Hull.

    Christa McAuliffe?: Look, she seems like a nice gal, but she does not deserve to be on this list. Remove her and swap in some other female notable: Willa Cather, Edith Wharton, Mary Cassatt, Emily Dickinson, Barbara Stanwyck, Bette Davis, etc.

    • Agree: Not Raul
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @syonredux

    You need a woman who led something, built something, or invented something. You might accept someone who was iconographic. Barton is the institution builder on the list. You might consider Barbara McClintock at some later date, but too soon. She died in 1992 and I'm not sure she ever retired. You might let Mildred McAfee (who organized the WAVES) through the first screen. Cupboard's pretty bare.

    Replies: @syonredux

    , @Not Raul
    @syonredux

    There are two other Navy guys who should be acknowledged, both civilians who developed computers: Hannibal Ford (Mark I Fire Control Computer), and Joseph Desch (cryptoanalytic computer).

    They did more to help win the war than many people realize.

  60. To represent the Jewish contribution, I suggest Jonas Salk.

  61. “(In general, I like statues of rivals together. It’s not a very 2020 idea, but the notion that thesis and antithesis makes us stronger is a worthy lesson.)”

    William F. Buckley and Gore Vidal sitting next to each other at the 1968 Chicago Democratic Convention. Capture the precise moment when Buckley’s lips are forming the “kw” sound in “queer.”

    Or Archie Bunker and Meathead . . .

    (Seriously, though, capturing the polarities is a great idea.)

  62. Marv Throneberry

    • Disagree: adreadline
    • Replies: @FPD72
    @Trinity


    Marv Throneberry
     
    A marvelous selection!

    Replies: @Trinity

    , @adreadline
    @Trinity

    • Strongly Disagree: @adreadline

  63. Anonymous[314] • Disclaimer says:

    This is a pretty bad list. Once you start including that many figures at once, it devolves away from genuinely heroic figures towards becoming a “Who’s Who” list of celebrities and the like and figures included just to satisfy various constituents.

    How were Billy Graham and Antonin Scalia “heroic” figures on the same level as the Founding Fathers? Graham and Scalia were fine, prominent figures, but they’re only included here because they were famous and presumably would represent the Evangelical and Italian-American contingents.

    Audie Murphy was a war hero, but there have been many war heroes and the main reason Murphy is included here over other war heroes is presumably because he played war heroes in the movies, which kind of debases it. You might as well include John Wayne at that point.

    This sounds like some schlocky Hall of Fame in Vegas or a roadside museum rather than a pantheon of heroes in the nation’s capital.

    • Agree: 3g4me
    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Anonymous


    Audie Murphy was a war hero, but there have been many war heroes and the main reason Murphy is included here over other war heroes is presumably because he played war heroes in the movies, which kind of debases it.
     
    Like SGT Alvin York, his claim to fame is the number of enemy soldiers he killed.
  64. The government should not be memorializing anyone (not even GW) or anything (not even July 4th).

    It has been along time since I last visited any nation’s capital, but the ones I remember were chock full of memorials to vainglorious wars and crooked ex-politicians.

    Disgusting.

    “We’ll never forget ..” Uh, I never even knew in the first place.

    I don’t object to a privately-owned shrine, e.g. Intel Museum.

  65. @FozzieT
    They should also develop school curricula to coincide with the opening of the monument in order to educate our children about what these people did to merit inclusion.

    Some other worthy members might include:

    Theodore Roosevelt
    Stephen Foster
    Mark Twain
    Neil Armstrong
    Chuck Yeager
    Alexander Graham Bell
    Lewis and Clark
    Thomas Edison
    Henry Ford
    Nicola Tesla
    Frank Capra
    Elvis Presley
    Bob Hope
    Frank Sinatra
    Charles Lindbergh
    Albert Einstein
    Walt Disney
    Jesse Owens
    Jim Thorpe
    Michael Jordan

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Liza

    Roosevelt, Twain, Armstrong, Yeager, Bell, Lewis & Clark, Edison, Ford, Lindbergh, and Disney should at least get through the first screen. Too soon for Sinatra. Einstein published the bulk of his papers (including the ones that landed him the Nobel) when he was residing in Germany and in Switzerland.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Art Deco


    Einstein published the bulk of his papers (including the ones that landed him the Nobel) when he was residing in Germany and in Switzerland.
     
    Einstein was a Zionist, wasn’t he?
  66. On beating the heat we get mad like hatters
    and into our hands we take these matters

    To Hell with Mother Nature our Father Willis spoke
    We lie awake at night but are not woke
    Nature’s winds are weak, our sheets are soaked
    Her salve for humidity is the butt of a joke.

    We cannot conquer Nature my ass,
    Outta the way you, let me pass.
    Fetch me my tools, my freon’s a gas
    Your puddles will be frozen and clear like glass.

    To chill the planet there was no barrier.
    He’s the Father of Cool,
    One Willis Carrier.

  67. @syonredux

    The National Garden should be composed of statues, including statues of John Adams, Susan B. Anthony, Clara Barton, Daniel Boone, Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, Henry Clay, Davy Crockett, Frederick Douglass, Amelia Earhart, Benjamin Franklin, Billy Graham, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, Martin Luther King, Jr., Abraham Lincoln, Douglas MacArthur, Dolley Madison, James Madison, Christa McAuliffe, Audie Murphy, George S. Patton, Jr., Ronald Reagan, Jackie Robinson, Betsy Ross, Antonin Scalia, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Harriet Tubman, Booker T. Washington, George Washington, and Orville and Wilbur Wright.”
     
    As Steve noted, it's not a bad list, but it could be better. Some ideas:

    Toss the South a bone: What with the anti-Confederate mania sweeping the nation, the South is taking a lot of punches to the gut. So let's add some distinguished Southerners: Edgar Allan Poe (inventor of the detective story, the key figure in the development of the short story), Thomas Hunt Morgan (probably the greatest American biologist), and William Faulkner (probably the greatest 20th century American novelist).

    What about the Italians: Scalia's probably tossed in there to appease Italian-Americans over the loss of Columbus, so why not add in Frank Capra, the man who directed classic films like It Happened One Night, Lost Horizon, Mr Smith Goes To Washington, and It's A Wonderful Life?

    Not enough artistic and scientific figures: As others have noted, Josiah Willard Gibbs (the man that Einstein called the greatest mind in American history) definitely deserves to be there. I'd also add:Charles Sanders Peirce, Sewall Wright, Edison, Samuel Morse, and Claude Shannon.For artistic/literary figures, I would put in: Hawthorne, Twain, Winslow Homer, Edward Hopper, Orson Welles, and Melville.


    Where's the Navy: Too many Army guys. We need some naval heroes: Stephen Decatur, Raymond A. Spruance, Isaac Hull.




    Christa McAuliffe?: Look, she seems like a nice gal, but she does not deserve to be on this list. Remove her and swap in some other female notable: Willa Cather, Edith Wharton, Mary Cassatt, Emily Dickinson, Barbara Stanwyck, Bette Davis, etc.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Not Raul

    You need a woman who led something, built something, or invented something. You might accept someone who was iconographic. Barton is the institution builder on the list. You might consider Barbara McClintock at some later date, but too soon. She died in 1992 and I’m not sure she ever retired. You might let Mildred McAfee (who organized the WAVES) through the first screen. Cupboard’s pretty bare.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Art Deco


    You need a woman who led something, built something, or invented something.
     
    I've got women on my list who wrote great novels (Edith Wharton and Willa Cather); I've got one of the greatest American poets (Emily Dickinson); and I've got the woman who is probably the best female American painter (Mary Cassatt).

    For a political figure, I'll toss in Frances Perkins.

  68. Anonymous[239] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco
    @FozzieT

    Roosevelt, Twain, Armstrong, Yeager, Bell, Lewis & Clark, Edison, Ford, Lindbergh, and Disney should at least get through the first screen. Too soon for Sinatra. Einstein published the bulk of his papers (including the ones that landed him the Nobel) when he was residing in Germany and in Switzerland.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Einstein published the bulk of his papers (including the ones that landed him the Nobel) when he was residing in Germany and in Switzerland.

    Einstein was a Zionist, wasn’t he?

  69. Unfortunately, this was a dumb, wasteful idea made worse by pandering to Republicans by including Reagan and Scalia, both of whom I liked but wouldn’t classify as heroes, as with most of the other proposed names.

  70. @Art Deco
    @syonredux

    You need a woman who led something, built something, or invented something. You might accept someone who was iconographic. Barton is the institution builder on the list. You might consider Barbara McClintock at some later date, but too soon. She died in 1992 and I'm not sure she ever retired. You might let Mildred McAfee (who organized the WAVES) through the first screen. Cupboard's pretty bare.

    Replies: @syonredux

    You need a woman who led something, built something, or invented something.

    I’ve got women on my list who wrote great novels (Edith Wharton and Willa Cather); I’ve got one of the greatest American poets (Emily Dickinson); and I’ve got the woman who is probably the best female American painter (Mary Cassatt).

    For a political figure, I’ll toss in Frances Perkins.

    • Agree: S. Anonyia
  71. @dearieme
    @PiltdownMan

    Spot on with Josiah Willard Gibbs.

    The Edison/Tesla yarn is a strangely parochial affair. As a Wikipedia article describes, almost all the first early advances in electrical lighting and power had nothing to do with either of them, having happened outside the USA.

    It's as if some fool decided to write the history of universities by focussing on Oxford vs Cambridge when universities actually started in Italy.

    Douglas MacArthur and George S. Patton also seem odd choices to me. Why not Ike, who had the twin advantages of being both sane and a consistently successful generalissimo?

    Replies: @BenKenobi, @Jefferson Temple

    I prefer my flag officers insane. If Patton had been permitted to wage his campaign against the Soviet Union and MacArthur had been permitted to nuke China I’d wager the world would be a much better place today.

    “We have to keep our boots polished and our bayonets sharpened against these Russians. Chickens in the coop and cows on the hoof, that’s their supply lines. They wouldn’t last three weeks in the action I could put to them.”
    – Patton, paraphrased, shortly before his mysterious death

  72. Liza says:
    @FozzieT
    They should also develop school curricula to coincide with the opening of the monument in order to educate our children about what these people did to merit inclusion.

    Some other worthy members might include:

    Theodore Roosevelt
    Stephen Foster
    Mark Twain
    Neil Armstrong
    Chuck Yeager
    Alexander Graham Bell
    Lewis and Clark
    Thomas Edison
    Henry Ford
    Nicola Tesla
    Frank Capra
    Elvis Presley
    Bob Hope
    Frank Sinatra
    Charles Lindbergh
    Albert Einstein
    Walt Disney
    Jesse Owens
    Jim Thorpe
    Michael Jordan

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Liza

    Re STEPHEN FOSTER & CHARLES LINDBERGH

    I can’t believe that Charles Lindbergh didn’t make the first list.

    Anyway, as to Stephen Foster, how about placing the statue of him and his Negro banjo player into the proposed garden of American Heroes. Anyone who had anything to do with the removal of this beautiful monument of the greatest American songwriter ever should be burned at the stake – and I’ll light the match.

    Anybody here suspicious that this garden will never come into existence?

    Demands for the statue to be removed intensified in 2017 after protests in Charlottesville, Virginia erupted over the proposed removal of the city’s Confederate monuments. Pittsburgh’s Art Commission held two public hearings to collect feedback from concerned citizens. The majority of attendees believed that the statue was racist and wanted to either relocate it or contextualize it in some way, while some attendees hoped that the statue would remain as it was and serve as a tribute to Foster’s legacy.[3] The statue was removed on April 26, 2018 on the unanimous recommendation of the Art Commission.[1]

    A city-appointed Task Force on Women in Public Art called for the statue to be replaced with one honoring an African American woman with ties to the Pittsburgh community. from wikipedia.

    F*ck them all backwards, and painfully.

  73. Luis Alvarez and his son Walter count as “Hispanic” only by the most extreme stretch of the imagination. Luis was the grandson of an immigrant from Spain, with the other 3/4 of his ancestry being white American, while only 1/8th of Walter’s ancestry can be traced back to Spain. Neither one had/has any Amerindian or African ancestry.

  74. A complete list of American heroes would seem almost endless (and let’s hope it keeps growing) but to add to Trump’s list and Steve’s,

    Henry Knox

    Henry J. Heinz

    Henry Ford

    (If you want your son to become a great man, name him Henry.)

    John A. Roebling, Washington Roebling, and Emily Warren Roebling

    Frank Lloyd Wright

    Philo Farnsworth

    Charles Lindbergh

    Les Paul

    Hyman Rickover

    John Houbolt

    Hugh Hefner 🙂

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Buzz Mohawk

    More on Henry J. Heinz, from Wikipedia, emphasis mine:


    He was influential for introducing high sanitary standards for food manufacturing. He also exercised a paternal relationship with his workers, providing health benefits, recreation facilities, and cultural amenities.

    Heinz was the great-grandfather of former U.S. Senator John Heinz of Pennsylvania and, as part of the extended family of the Trumps, a second cousin of Frederick Trump and second cousin twice removed of Donald Trump.
     
    Somebody should tell or remind Donald. Maybe Henry can get on the list.
    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Buzz Mohawk


    If you want your son to become a great man, name him Henry.
     
    And bring back its old diminutives of Harry and Hal. Henry is very much on the upswing, at #16 his highest ranking since 1919, so he'll need to be distinguished from the others:

    https://www.babynamewizard.com/images/namevoyager/henry.m.png


    (NB: Name choices are more diverse these days, even among the undiverse, so the same ranking today will have a lower per-million figure than a century ago.)

    Henry J. Heinz
     
    Was Clarence Birdseye a force for good, or ill? I think kinda both, and in the same vein...

    Philo Farnsworth
     
    Are you philo-Philo? A Philophile?

    Television has been very much a double-edged sword, allowing us to see the moon landings and both of Nolan Ryan's home runs, but also eating away at family life, reading, and everything else.

    However, I'm spending much of my retirement watching informational vloggers and how-to gurus on YouTube (its good side), so I'll give Philo a mild seconding.

    Frank Lloyd Wright
     
    A complete jerk, an anti-mentor, and the present owners of many of his unarguably handsome structures are suffering from his refusal to listen to warnings from his engineers.

    However, he did indirectly predict "Florida Man" when he observed that the US is tilted to the southwest, because everything loose winds up in California.

    Replies: @Gordo

    , @Jack D
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I think a special section of the Garden should be devoted to our greatest inventors. I just googled for a list of American Inventors and this is what came up under Inventors/ United States:

    Bell and Edison, of course, but then:

    George Washington Carver.

    Lewis Howard Latimer:

    https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_300/MTE4MDAzNDEwNTkzNjc4ODYy/lewis-howard-latimer-9374422-1-402.jpg

    Garrett Morgan:

    https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_300/MTE1ODA0OTcxNzMwODk2Mzk3/garrett-a-morgan-9414691-1-402.jpg

    Madam C.J. Walker:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Madam_CJ_Walker_face_circa_1914.jpg

    Elijah McCoy

    https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_300/MTIwNjA4NjMzODkyMTQ0NjUy/elijah-mccoy-9391300-1-402.jpg

    And so on. Samuel Morse clocks in around #15 between Thomas Jennings and James Edward Maceo West (he will need an extra large pedestal to fit all four of his names).

    I never knew that 8 out of 10 of America's greatest inventors were Black. Racists must have been running my education in those days.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Buzz Mohawk, @Oleg Panczenko

    , @PiltdownMan
    @Buzz Mohawk


    (If you want your son to become a great man, name him Henry.)
     
    Or if you want him to become henpecked, perhaps.

    https://youtu.be/AthT8kw7CIo

  75. @syonredux

    The National Garden should be composed of statues, including statues of John Adams, Susan B. Anthony, Clara Barton, Daniel Boone, Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, Henry Clay, Davy Crockett, Frederick Douglass, Amelia Earhart, Benjamin Franklin, Billy Graham, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, Martin Luther King, Jr., Abraham Lincoln, Douglas MacArthur, Dolley Madison, James Madison, Christa McAuliffe, Audie Murphy, George S. Patton, Jr., Ronald Reagan, Jackie Robinson, Betsy Ross, Antonin Scalia, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Harriet Tubman, Booker T. Washington, George Washington, and Orville and Wilbur Wright.”
     
    As Steve noted, it's not a bad list, but it could be better. Some ideas:

    Toss the South a bone: What with the anti-Confederate mania sweeping the nation, the South is taking a lot of punches to the gut. So let's add some distinguished Southerners: Edgar Allan Poe (inventor of the detective story, the key figure in the development of the short story), Thomas Hunt Morgan (probably the greatest American biologist), and William Faulkner (probably the greatest 20th century American novelist).

    What about the Italians: Scalia's probably tossed in there to appease Italian-Americans over the loss of Columbus, so why not add in Frank Capra, the man who directed classic films like It Happened One Night, Lost Horizon, Mr Smith Goes To Washington, and It's A Wonderful Life?

    Not enough artistic and scientific figures: As others have noted, Josiah Willard Gibbs (the man that Einstein called the greatest mind in American history) definitely deserves to be there. I'd also add:Charles Sanders Peirce, Sewall Wright, Edison, Samuel Morse, and Claude Shannon.For artistic/literary figures, I would put in: Hawthorne, Twain, Winslow Homer, Edward Hopper, Orson Welles, and Melville.


    Where's the Navy: Too many Army guys. We need some naval heroes: Stephen Decatur, Raymond A. Spruance, Isaac Hull.




    Christa McAuliffe?: Look, she seems like a nice gal, but she does not deserve to be on this list. Remove her and swap in some other female notable: Willa Cather, Edith Wharton, Mary Cassatt, Emily Dickinson, Barbara Stanwyck, Bette Davis, etc.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Not Raul

    There are two other Navy guys who should be acknowledged, both civilians who developed computers: Hannibal Ford (Mark I Fire Control Computer), and Joseph Desch (cryptoanalytic computer).

    They did more to help win the war than many people realize.

  76. I know where he can get some slightly used statues real cheap of some of America’s greatest generals.

  77. Antonin Scalia

    One of my favorite recent Americans, but bronzeworthy? Perhaps holding out a paper bag after Obergefell?

    Jackie Robinson

    No. Roy Campanella. Someone people actually liked.

    Harriet Tubman

    For ethnic cleansers, a far better pick than Andrew Jackson.

    short sleeve shirts with pocket protector

    Where can you get these these days?

    • Replies: @SafeNow
    @Reg Cæsar

    “short sleeve shirts with pocket protector

    Where can you get these these days?”

    I bought mine from Amazon. It lives in the breast pocket of my blazer*. I cut the top off the protector, so it is invisible to any chicks I might meet. But the pen cannot ruin the blazer.

    * ”Anything is possible in the perfect blazer.”
    -Rashida Jones

  78. No W.E.B Du Bois, no Rosa Parks, no Ferdinand Joseph LaMothe (Jelly Roll Morton), no Fats Waller, no Satchmo, no Frank Robinson … hell, the only plausible reason Jesse Jackson and Reverend Al don’t make the list is that they are still alive. What kind of list of Americans is Trump’s supposed to be?

  79. @Buzz Mohawk
    A complete list of American heroes would seem almost endless (and let's hope it keeps growing) but to add to Trump's list and Steve's,

    Henry Knox

    Henry J. Heinz

    Henry Ford

    (If you want your son to become a great man, name him Henry.)

    John A. Roebling, Washington Roebling, and Emily Warren Roebling

    Frank Lloyd Wright

    Philo Farnsworth

    Charles Lindbergh

    Les Paul

    Hyman Rickover

    John Houbolt

    Hugh Hefner :)

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D, @PiltdownMan

    More on Henry J. Heinz, from Wikipedia, emphasis mine:

    He was influential for introducing high sanitary standards for food manufacturing. He also exercised a paternal relationship with his workers, providing health benefits, recreation facilities, and cultural amenities.

    Heinz was the great-grandfather of former U.S. Senator John Heinz of Pennsylvania and, as part of the extended family of the Trumps, a second cousin of Frederick Trump and second cousin twice removed of Donald Trump.

    Somebody should tell or remind Donald. Maybe Henry can get on the list.

  80. Such an outdoor sculpture garden already exists at my Alma Mater’s former campus in the Bronx. I’m an NYU grad and the Bronx campus featured the Hall of Fame for Great Americans. This was created back when the Bronx was civilized. You have recently commented on your blog how the Bronx has descended into savagery over the last 60 years. NYU sold the Bronx campus but the Hall of Fame continues as part of Bronx Community College. Feast your eyes on the notables admitted to the Hall a long time ago:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_of_Fame_for_Great_Americans

    • Replies: @prosa123
    @Rohirrimborn

    Even before the recent virus getting to see the Hall of Fame was a hit or miss proposition. Although it's ostensibly open to the public, the guards at the campus entrance sometimes refuse to admit visitors. It basically comes down to what guard is on duty and what sort of mood he's in.

  81. @Buzz Mohawk
    A complete list of American heroes would seem almost endless (and let's hope it keeps growing) but to add to Trump's list and Steve's,

    Henry Knox

    Henry J. Heinz

    Henry Ford

    (If you want your son to become a great man, name him Henry.)

    John A. Roebling, Washington Roebling, and Emily Warren Roebling

    Frank Lloyd Wright

    Philo Farnsworth

    Charles Lindbergh

    Les Paul

    Hyman Rickover

    John Houbolt

    Hugh Hefner :)

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D, @PiltdownMan

    If you want your son to become a great man, name him Henry.

    And bring back its old diminutives of Harry and Hal. Henry is very much on the upswing, at #16 his highest ranking since 1919, so he’ll need to be distinguished from the others:

    (NB: Name choices are more diverse these days, even among the undiverse, so the same ranking today will have a lower per-million figure than a century ago.)

    Henry J. Heinz

    Was Clarence Birdseye a force for good, or ill? I think kinda both, and in the same vein…

    Philo Farnsworth

    Are you philo-Philo? A Philophile?

    Television has been very much a double-edged sword, allowing us to see the moon landings and both of Nolan Ryan’s home runs, but also eating away at family life, reading, and everything else.

    However, I’m spending much of my retirement watching informational vloggers and how-to gurus on YouTube (its good side), so I’ll give Philo a mild seconding.

    Frank Lloyd Wright

    A complete jerk, an anti-mentor, and the present owners of many of his unarguably handsome structures are suffering from his refusal to listen to warnings from his engineers.

    However, he did indirectly predict “Florida Man” when he observed that the US is tilted to the southwest, because everything loose winds up in California.

    • Replies: @Gordo
    @Reg Cæsar



    If you want your son to become a great man, name him Henry.

    And bring back its old diminutives of Harry and Hal.

     

    My wife tells me that children who have traditional names tend to do a lot better at school.

    Not direct causation of course.
  82. Would it be fair to suggest Martin Cooper? The inventor of the cellular phone, that is until Feb. 2021 when Black History Month declares it was a black man who set him on the path with the invention of some gizmo that made it all possible. If it wasn’t peanut butter the cell phone would not have been invented. Yaaaa.. that’s how it was..
    Without it we we would not have our new “Jesus” George Floyd.

  83. @Art Deco
    1. John Adams (not sure)

    2. Susan B. Anthony (no)

    3. Clara Barton (OK)

    4. Daniel Boone (not sure)

    5. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain (not sure who this is)

    6. Henry Clay (no)

    7. Davy Crockett (not sure)

    8. Frederick Douglass (not sure)

    9. Amelia Earhart (no)

    10. Benjamin Franklin (yes)

    11. Billy Graham (too soon, dubious).

    12. Alexander Hamilton (yes)

    13, Thomas Jefferson (yes)

    14. Martin Luther King, Jr. (no)

    15. Abraham Lincoln (yes)

    16. Douglas MacArthur (yes)

    17. Dolley Madison (no)

    18. James Madison (yes)

    19. Christa McAuliffe (too soo, and a silly idea)

    20. Audie Murphy (not sure)

    21. George S. Patton (yes)

    22. Ronald Reagan (too soon)

    23. Jackie Robinson (no)

    24. Betsy Ross (no)

    25. Antonin Scalia (too soon).

    26. Harriet Beecher Stowe (no)

    27. Harriet Tubman (not sure; same deal with Audie Murphy).

    28. Booker T. Washington (not sure)

    29. George Washington (yes)

    30. Orville and Wilbur Wright. (not sure).


    Need more figures from industry and engineering. More military. Perhaps some innovators in municipal government. Perhaps some medical pioneers.

    Replies: @anon, @Buzz Mohawk, @Saint Louis

    John Adams (not sure)

    Orville and Wilbur Wright. (not sure).

    Seriously?

    I’m not sure about you.

    • Agree: FPD72, Redneck farmer
  84. Couple of other picks:

    Robert H Goddard (rocket pioneer)

    Noah Webster (Lexicography)

    John Moses Browning (America’s greatest gun designer)

    Maurice Hilleman (Perhaps the greatest vaccinologist in history)

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @syonredux

    Here's a few more:

    Corky Withers (ventriloquist)

    HP Lovecraft (astronomer)

    Stanley Kubrick (diorama designer)

    Burgess Meredith (topnotch weirdo)

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  85. @Buzz Mohawk
    A complete list of American heroes would seem almost endless (and let's hope it keeps growing) but to add to Trump's list and Steve's,

    Henry Knox

    Henry J. Heinz

    Henry Ford

    (If you want your son to become a great man, name him Henry.)

    John A. Roebling, Washington Roebling, and Emily Warren Roebling

    Frank Lloyd Wright

    Philo Farnsworth

    Charles Lindbergh

    Les Paul

    Hyman Rickover

    John Houbolt

    Hugh Hefner :)

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D, @PiltdownMan

    I think a special section of the Garden should be devoted to our greatest inventors. I just googled for a list of American Inventors and this is what came up under Inventors/ United States:

    Bell and Edison, of course, but then:

    George Washington Carver.

    Lewis Howard Latimer:

    Garrett Morgan:

    Madam C.J. Walker:

    Elijah McCoy

    And so on. Samuel Morse clocks in around #15 between Thomas Jennings and James Edward Maceo West (he will need an extra large pedestal to fit all four of his names).

    I never knew that 8 out of 10 of America’s greatest inventors were Black. Racists must have been running my education in those days.

    • LOL: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @Jack D

    It’s notable that Trump didn’t include George Washington Carver. He’s been too thoroughly debunked.

    , @Buzz Mohawk
    @Jack D

    Good point.

    Clearly, systemic racism is the reason there is a dearth of White inventors. This is why we should propose that there be taxpayer-funded "Invention Enterprise Zones" in White neighborhoods, and special programs in public schools aimed at boosting the inventiveness and self-esteem of White children.

    White kids should learn about overlooked, great, White inventors like:

    Walter Frederick Morrison, inventor of the Frisbee:

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ad/74/cf/ad74cfcb7ae78c3068ebc150e577ff80.jpg


    Ron Popeil, inventor of the Veg-O-Matic and the Ronco Pocket Fisherman:

    https://www.jewoftheweek.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Popeil-with-Inventions-Credit-David-McNew.jpg


    Mike Lindell, the My Pillow guy:

    https://www.snoringmouthpieceguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/lindell.png


    Norman Stingley, inventor of the Super Ball:

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-92_l27nHFw4/WBNMXyH6A9I/AAAAAAACbeQ/ky9mxGdeJSAhO-wy-So1q3E2n1jLkSCugCLcB/s640/25.%2BSuperballs.png

    Norman doesn't even get his picture on the internet. This is an outrage!

    , @Oleg Panczenko
    @Jack D

    Of possible interest:

    Mackintosh, Barry. "George Washington Carver: The Making of A Myth". The Journal of Southern History 42(1):507-528 (1976-11).

    "Black Invention Myths" http://67.225.133.110/~gbpprorg/invention/

    The Not-So-Real McCoy http://67.225.133.110/~gbpprorg/invention/mccoy.html

    Replies: @Jack D

  86. @PiltdownMan
    If we include American scientists, engineers and mathematicians, there's a real embarrassment of riches.

    Robert Noyce, John Bardeen, W. Edwards Deming, Josiah Willard Gibbs, Emmy Noether, John Tukey, John Backus, Robert Millikan, John Von Neumann, John Nash, Vannevar Bush, Irving Langmuir, Ernest Lawrence.

    And that's just me rattling off a few names off the top of my head.

    Replies: @dearieme, @Bert, @SunBakedSuburb

    How about Walt Disney’s friend, Wernher von Braun? Thanks to von Braun the Nazi element within NASA was able to establish a base on Mars October 13, 1973. Communication with the base was lost November 3, 1973.

  87. MLK–the rape enabler? LOL

  88. @Bert
    @PiltdownMan

    David Crockett should not make the list. He was a middling politician, not a frontiersman. The de la Pena account of what he witnessed during Santa Anna's attempt to reconquer Texas is strong evidence that Crockett surrendered at the Alamo rather than fighting to the death like almost all of the other defenders, presumably because of a politician's conceit that he could talk his way out of any corner.

    To recognize the dominant role of the USA in evolutionary biology's development, Ernst Mayr or E. O. Wilson would be worthy members of the list.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @FPD72

    I’ll trade you Sam Houston for David Crockett. Sam even has the distinction of arduously fighting against Texas’s secession from the Union, so he won’t be canceled for Confederate loyalty. The only government he fought against was Mexico. He also should score some Wokemon points for time spent living with Native Americans and his marriage to a NA woman, although I guess he would lose some of those points for abandoning her when he headed to Texas.

  89. @Buffalo Joe
    What is the sense of having a National Statue garden if in a few years no kid currently in school would know who the were.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    “a National Statue garden”

    How about a garden without statues but full of bees?

  90. @Trinity
    Marv Throneberry

    Replies: @FPD72, @adreadline

    Marv Throneberry

    A marvelous selection!

    • Replies: @Trinity
    @FPD72

    Agreed. Marvelous Marv is certainly more worthy than some of the people listed on some of these other lists. lolol.

  91. @Dr. X
    Christa McAuliffe and Amelia Earhart should be removed and replaced with Thomas Edison and Henry Ford.

    Replies: @S. Anonyia, @Anonymous

    Oh, come on. Christa McAuliffe didn’t really do much other than get sadly martyred to NASA’s incompetence but Amelia Earhart is the best female on that list. Annie Oakley would be a nice addition, too.

    The founder of New Orleans should be acknowledged (Bienville). As should Lewis and Clark, and if you want to put a Native American in there, Sacajawea. The guy that founded New Mexico for Hispanics.

    Also why no FDR or Kennedy if they are throwing Reagan in there? Both are more historically significant than that puppet. Kennedy for the way his assassination changed the country, FDR for being in office 12 years, steering us through the Depression and WWII (for better or for worse).

    The list is skewed towards boring upright Yankees. There are lots of Southern and Western characters who weren’t diehard slaveowners or otherwise problematic.

    And maybe I missed it, but why not Walt Disney?

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @prosa123
    @S. Anonyia

    And maybe I missed it, but why not Walt Disney?

    People on the list have to be dead, and being (possibly) frozen doesn't count.

    , @Art Deco
    @S. Anonyia

    Again, the notion Reagan was a 'puppet' has been discredited by surviving documentation (which include his marginalia and diaries) and testimonials. He was presented that way by David Stockman, among others. It's a reasonable inference Stockman didn't have the people sense to realize when he was being given the brush-off.


    The list is skewed towards boring upright Yankees.

    Until the 1920s, that's who built and ran just about anything you could name outside the South and outside a few places like Milwaukee

    Oh, come on. Christa McAuliffe didn’t really do much other than get sadly martyred to NASA’s incompetence but Amelia Earhart is the best female on that list. Annie Oakley would be a nice addition, too.

    Annie Oakley was an entertainer. About Earhart, she got a lot of attention due to novelty and due to the public relations skills of her husband-cum-business partner, GP Putnam. This was an engaging documentary: (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1027235/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast). Pay attention to what Elinor Smith had to say about Earhart's technical skills and the utility of her various projects. And ask yourself how many men were doing what she was doing (and more).

    The only woman on the list that's a slam dunk is Barton, because she built something of institutional importance.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @S. Anonyia

  92. @syonredux
    Couple of other picks:

    Robert H Goddard (rocket pioneer)

    Noah Webster (Lexicography)

    John Moses Browning (America's greatest gun designer)

    Maurice Hilleman (Perhaps the greatest vaccinologist in history)

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    Here’s a few more:

    Corky Withers (ventriloquist)

    HP Lovecraft (astronomer)

    Stanley Kubrick (diorama designer)

    Burgess Meredith (topnotch weirdo)

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Stanley Kubrick is a definite.

  93. Archbishop Fulton sheen to balance Billy Graham.

  94. @Anonymous
    This is a pretty bad list. Once you start including that many figures at once, it devolves away from genuinely heroic figures towards becoming a "Who's Who" list of celebrities and the like and figures included just to satisfy various constituents.

    How were Billy Graham and Antonin Scalia "heroic" figures on the same level as the Founding Fathers? Graham and Scalia were fine, prominent figures, but they're only included here because they were famous and presumably would represent the Evangelical and Italian-American contingents.

    Audie Murphy was a war hero, but there have been many war heroes and the main reason Murphy is included here over other war heroes is presumably because he played war heroes in the movies, which kind of debases it. You might as well include John Wayne at that point.

    This sounds like some schlocky Hall of Fame in Vegas or a roadside museum rather than a pantheon of heroes in the nation's capital.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    Audie Murphy was a war hero, but there have been many war heroes and the main reason Murphy is included here over other war heroes is presumably because he played war heroes in the movies, which kind of debases it.

    Like SGT Alvin York, his claim to fame is the number of enemy soldiers he killed.

  95. There’s so many great white men who should be in the Garden of Heroes that there are too many to name. But from the initial list it looks like we will have some affirmative action “heroes”.

  96. I’m glad to see that Claude Shannon is getting some love here.

  97. >>Neil, Buzz and Mike (first to visit another planet – must be enough)?<<

    No, just the moon, not planet. Still not a bad set of choices.

    First planetary visitor coming soon. Probably Chinese though. Never mind…

  98. @Rohirrimborn
    Such an outdoor sculpture garden already exists at my Alma Mater's former campus in the Bronx. I'm an NYU grad and the Bronx campus featured the Hall of Fame for Great Americans. This was created back when the Bronx was civilized. You have recently commented on your blog how the Bronx has descended into savagery over the last 60 years. NYU sold the Bronx campus but the Hall of Fame continues as part of Bronx Community College. Feast your eyes on the notables admitted to the Hall a long time ago:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_of_Fame_for_Great_Americans

    Replies: @prosa123

    Even before the recent virus getting to see the Hall of Fame was a hit or miss proposition. Although it’s ostensibly open to the public, the guards at the campus entrance sometimes refuse to admit visitors. It basically comes down to what guard is on duty and what sort of mood he’s in.

  99. @S. Anonyia
    @Dr. X

    Oh, come on. Christa McAuliffe didn't really do much other than get sadly martyred to NASA's incompetence but Amelia Earhart is the best female on that list. Annie Oakley would be a nice addition, too.

    The founder of New Orleans should be acknowledged (Bienville). As should Lewis and Clark, and if you want to put a Native American in there, Sacajawea. The guy that founded New Mexico for Hispanics.

    Also why no FDR or Kennedy if they are throwing Reagan in there? Both are more historically significant than that puppet. Kennedy for the way his assassination changed the country, FDR for being in office 12 years, steering us through the Depression and WWII (for better or for worse).

    The list is skewed towards boring upright Yankees. There are lots of Southern and Western characters who weren't diehard slaveowners or otherwise problematic.

    And maybe I missed it, but why not Walt Disney?

    Replies: @prosa123, @Art Deco

    And maybe I missed it, but why not Walt Disney?

    People on the list have to be dead, and being (possibly) frozen doesn’t count.

  100. @FPD72
    @Trinity


    Marv Throneberry
     
    A marvelous selection!

    Replies: @Trinity

    Agreed. Marvelous Marv is certainly more worthy than some of the people listed on some of these other lists. lolol.

  101. @MacRead
    To build on your excellent thesis-antithesis idea if I were to erect a iSteve statue who would be your antithesis Mr Sailer? Ta-Nehisi? Malcolm Gladwell? Stevin Levitt?

    Replies: @TontoBubbaGoldstein

    Leonard Pitts.

    • LOL: JMcG
  102. Andrew Jackson isn’t there — and should be. An American original — and absolutely pivotal. For better or worse, he marked the transformation of the US into a populist democracy. Things were never the same after him.

    Doesn’t putting in Amelia Earhart make Charles Lindbergh rather conspicuous by omission? He was still a hero up to at least the mid-Sixties — somehow, we managed to overlook his sins back in the day.

    Also, both Roosevelts are missing, and Davy Crockett should definitely be there. Robert E. Lee — no question. How about Joseph Smith and/or Brigham Young? Kit Carson? Jefferson Davis?

    Edison?

    Herman Melville? John Philip Sousa? William James? Ernest Hemingway? William Faulkner? Etc.

    If it were up to me, I’d omit half the women and all the blacks and add Nathan Bedford Forrest — but perhaps that’s a bridge too far.

  103. no one’s mentioned Walt Disney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  104. @adreadline
    Norman Borlaug is one that could be included and whose inclusion would likely face little resistance from the powers that be, despite him being a (dead, like all others) white male.

    If one thinks the inclusions of Claude Shannon and the Alvarez father-and-son duo would be judged appropriate, then Walter Brattain's and John Bardeen's inclusions could be, too. And Chatles Goodyear's. And Josiah Willard Gibbs'.

    ...And Linus Pauling. And Glenn T. Seaborg. Gilbert N. Lewis. Wallace Carothers. And... maybe I'm missing the point... oh well.

    There are some women worthy of note, too. Barbara McClintock is one I can mention from the top of my head. (Rosalind Franklin and Mary Lyon were English)

    I might be biased towards geneticists...

    Speaking of genetics, two American pioneers in that field who don't have a chance in hell of being included, not counting the stubbornly still-living James Watson, are Thomas Hunt Morgan and Kary B. Mullis. One might figure out why.

    And I wonder why the POC brigade didn't cancel the Wright brothers yet. As we all well know, the airplane was invented by my fellow Brazilian Alberto Santos=Dumont.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Norman Borlaug is one that could be included and whose inclusion would likely face little resistance from the powers that be, despite him being a (dead, like all others) white male.

    Why should we honor a man whose work led to an over-populated Earth and a third-world tied to big petrochemical based agriculture?

    • Replies: @adreadline
    @Mr. Anon

    A valid question. But Borlaug's technology, like any other, is neutral. You can argue it was used to overpopulate the Earth with polluting, net consumer browns, but even if that's the case (it might be, though it's debatable) that doesn't have to be its only use.

  105. I suppose someone important might be reading this. I know I’m missing tons of people. I’m going to leave out the obvious founding fathers but they all belong. Not every president belongs. Maybe we could group the founding fathers by state, and in that light I’m going to include my founding fathers since none of them are well known.

    John Smith
    Squanto
    William Penn
    Mason & Dixon
    Thomas Paine
    George Read, Thomas McCain, Caesar Rodney
    Daniel Boone
    Louis & Clark
    Robert Fulton
    Eli Whitney
    Andrew Jackson

    [MORE]
    Herman Melville
    Mark Twain
    Ulysses S Grant
    Robert E Lee
    Sherman
    Stonewall Jackson
    George armstrong Custer
    Sitting Bull
    Boss Tweed
    George Westinghouse
    Rockefeller
    Thomas Edison
    Tesla
    Al Jolson
    Cab Calloway
    Fred Astaire
    Judy Garland
    John Steinbeck
    Ernest Hemingway
    Thomas Pynchon
    Patten
    Eisenhower
    Robert A Milliken
    Richard Feynman
    Jack Kilby
    Neil armstrong
    Elvis
    Buddy holly
    Little Richard
    Chuck berry
    Diana Ross
    Ty Cobb
    Babe Ruth
    Connie Mac
    Shoeless joe Jackson
    Satchel Paige
    Mickey mantle
    Jackie Robinson
    Willy Mays
    Hank Arron
    Pete Rose
    Wilt chamberlain
    Michael Jordan
    Lance Armstrong
    Michael Phelps
    Allen iverson
    Kobe
    Mike trout
    Arthur Miller
    Andrew loyd Webber
    George Lucas
    Steven Spielberg
    Kevin Smith (Clerks)
    Stan Lee
    Steven King
    Michael Creighton
    Jerry Lewis
    Richard Pryor
    George Carlin
    Sam kinnison
    Andrew dice Clay

    I like the idea of grouping rivals together but I think Tesla and Edison were both great thinkers separate from any rivalry, and that plays into the modern hate waspy narrative. Sitting Bull deserves to stand on his own, it would be kinda weird grouping him with custer. The closer we get to the current year the more controversial and absurd sounding they get so I apologize if some of these sound insane. Maybe you should have to be dead. That kicks the can down the road on the Obama question. He is the first black president, he likely deserves it but that’s probably a verboten statement around these parts.

  106. Whose Statues Should be in the National Garden of American Heroes?

    In 21st Century America? The park will end up being full of statues of people like Iron Man, Batman, Spiderman, maybe some Star Wars characters, that guy from the Fast and Furious movies, and maybe Stan Lee.

  107. @SunBakedSuburb
    @syonredux

    Here's a few more:

    Corky Withers (ventriloquist)

    HP Lovecraft (astronomer)

    Stanley Kubrick (diorama designer)

    Burgess Meredith (topnotch weirdo)

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    Stanley Kubrick is a definite.

  108. anon[761] • Disclaimer says:

    Some suggestions:

    Astronaut Neil Armstrong

    Philosopher Charles Sanders Pierce

    A trio of statues: Meriwether Lewis, William Clark, Sacagawea

    Dwight D. Eisenhower — I would prefer him to Douglas MacArthur, for I know at least one military (and politically conservative) man who dislikes MacArthur for his disobedience to the Commander in Chief

    James Madison, father of the Constitution

    Robert Andrews Millikan : American experimental physicist honored with the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1923 for the measurement of the elementary electric charge and for his work on the photoelectric effect.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @anon

    I went to summer school at Millikan junior high.

    , @Anonymous
    @anon

    Millikan was a Nordicist and eugenicist who associated with actual German Nazis. Seems like there'd be a lot of hurdles for him to make it through:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/2000-03/16/076r-031600-idx.html


    Nobel-winning physicist Robert Millikan, chairman of the Huntington trustees, proudly considered his region "the westernmost outpost of Nordic civilization . . . [with] a population which is twice as Anglo-Saxon as that existing in New York, Chicago or any of the great cities of this country."

    Millikan, president of the California Institute of Technology, was a Social Darwinist and an active board member of the Human Betterment Foundation, a group engaged in eugenics research. In the 1940s the foundation was documenting the medical sterilization of mentally ill people, and exchanging correspondence with Nazi scientists.
     
  109. @al gore rhythms
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    I once tried to read 'the crying of lot 49' but it's one of the few novels I had to give up on. I found it totally unreadable. But your quote is interesting and makes me think I was too hasty. Is this a quote from one of his novels?

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    His most recent novel, Bleeding Edge, is pretty accessible.

    • Thanks: al gore rhythms
  110. @Jack D
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I think a special section of the Garden should be devoted to our greatest inventors. I just googled for a list of American Inventors and this is what came up under Inventors/ United States:

    Bell and Edison, of course, but then:

    George Washington Carver.

    Lewis Howard Latimer:

    https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_300/MTE4MDAzNDEwNTkzNjc4ODYy/lewis-howard-latimer-9374422-1-402.jpg

    Garrett Morgan:

    https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_300/MTE1ODA0OTcxNzMwODk2Mzk3/garrett-a-morgan-9414691-1-402.jpg

    Madam C.J. Walker:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Madam_CJ_Walker_face_circa_1914.jpg

    Elijah McCoy

    https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_300/MTIwNjA4NjMzODkyMTQ0NjUy/elijah-mccoy-9391300-1-402.jpg

    And so on. Samuel Morse clocks in around #15 between Thomas Jennings and James Edward Maceo West (he will need an extra large pedestal to fit all four of his names).

    I never knew that 8 out of 10 of America's greatest inventors were Black. Racists must have been running my education in those days.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Buzz Mohawk, @Oleg Panczenko

    It’s notable that Trump didn’t include George Washington Carver. He’s been too thoroughly debunked.

  111. Anonymous[406] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dr. X
    Christa McAuliffe and Amelia Earhart should be removed and replaced with Thomas Edison and Henry Ford.

    Replies: @S. Anonyia, @Anonymous

    Christa McAuliffe and Amelia Earhart should be removed and replaced with Thomas Edison and Henry Ford.

    Thomas “99% Perspiration” Edison? Really?

    Here is a better idea:

    Hedy Lamarr

    Actress with risquee track record AND genuine high-tech inventrix, dated Howard Hughes. If Hedy doesn’t motivate boys to study STEM, nothing will.

    Lamarr invented a “frequency-hopping spread spectrum” communications system during WW II. The Navy promptly classified it as “red-hot” but judged that the idea was too complicated to be implemented at the time. The technique is in common use now.

  112. @GeologyAnon Mk 2
    @anon

    Good call on Twain. Would be great to put him next to Tesla, as they were close friends.

    Bedford Forrest is a moronic suggestion, as is Lee.

    Each service should get a set number, say four statues.

    Navy-- Spruance, Ernest Evans, Alan Shepherd, and the original madman John Paul Jones

    Marines-- Dan Dailey, Basilone, (chesty puller sucks) ?

    Army-- Grant, Ike, ?

    Air Force-- Yeager,Robin Olds, Boyd...?

    Also I think you have to include Walt Disney and Henry Ford

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @syonredux

    Air Force– Yeager,Robin Olds, Boyd…?

    Billy Mitchell, no?

    • Replies: @GeologyAnon Mk 2
    @kaganovitch

    Unless I am greatly mistaken, Mitchell never served in the USAF, but was strictly an army air corps guy. So the army would have claim to him, not the Air Force. Dolittle would be a good guy to round out their 4.

    Rickenbacker also-- he's the Army's to claim, not the Air Force's.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

  113. @Reg Cæsar

    Antonin Scalia
     
    One of my favorite recent Americans, but bronzeworthy? Perhaps holding out a paper bag after Obergefell?

    Jackie Robinson
     
    No. Roy Campanella. Someone people actually liked.

    Harriet Tubman
     
    For ethnic cleansers, a far better pick than Andrew Jackson.

    short sleeve shirts with pocket protector
     
    Where can you get these these days?

    Replies: @SafeNow

    “short sleeve shirts with pocket protector

    Where can you get these these days?”

    I bought mine from Amazon. It lives in the breast pocket of my blazer*. I cut the top off the protector, so it is invisible to any chicks I might meet. But the pen cannot ruin the blazer.

    * ”Anything is possible in the perfect blazer.”
    -Rashida Jones

  114. @GeologyAnon Mk 2
    @anon

    Good call on Twain. Would be great to put him next to Tesla, as they were close friends.

    Bedford Forrest is a moronic suggestion, as is Lee.

    Each service should get a set number, say four statues.

    Navy-- Spruance, Ernest Evans, Alan Shepherd, and the original madman John Paul Jones

    Marines-- Dan Dailey, Basilone, (chesty puller sucks) ?

    Army-- Grant, Ike, ?

    Air Force-- Yeager,Robin Olds, Boyd...?

    Also I think you have to include Walt Disney and Henry Ford

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @syonredux

    Air Force– Yeager,Robin Olds, Boyd…?

    Eddie Rickenbacker, the top American ace of the First World War:

    Edward Vernon Rickenbacker (October 8, 1890 – July 23, 1973) was an American fighter ace in World War I and a Medal of Honor recipient. With 26 aerial victories, he was the United States’ most successful fighter ace in the war and is considered to have received the most awards for valor by an American during the war.[1] He was also a race car driver and automotive designer, a government consultant in military matters and a pioneer in air transportation, particularly as the long-time head of Eastern Air Lines.

    Yeah, I know, technically he was part of the Army, but come on….

  115. @kaganovitch
    @GeologyAnon Mk 2

    Air Force– Yeager,Robin Olds, Boyd…?

    Billy Mitchell, no?

    Replies: @GeologyAnon Mk 2

    Unless I am greatly mistaken, Mitchell never served in the USAF, but was strictly an army air corps guy. So the army would have claim to him, not the Air Force. Dolittle would be a good guy to round out their 4.

    Rickenbacker also– he’s the Army’s to claim, not the Air Force’s.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @GeologyAnon Mk 2

    You are right, Mitchell was never Air Force. My mistake.

  116. @Art Deco
    1. John Adams (not sure)

    2. Susan B. Anthony (no)

    3. Clara Barton (OK)

    4. Daniel Boone (not sure)

    5. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain (not sure who this is)

    6. Henry Clay (no)

    7. Davy Crockett (not sure)

    8. Frederick Douglass (not sure)

    9. Amelia Earhart (no)

    10. Benjamin Franklin (yes)

    11. Billy Graham (too soon, dubious).

    12. Alexander Hamilton (yes)

    13, Thomas Jefferson (yes)

    14. Martin Luther King, Jr. (no)

    15. Abraham Lincoln (yes)

    16. Douglas MacArthur (yes)

    17. Dolley Madison (no)

    18. James Madison (yes)

    19. Christa McAuliffe (too soo, and a silly idea)

    20. Audie Murphy (not sure)

    21. George S. Patton (yes)

    22. Ronald Reagan (too soon)

    23. Jackie Robinson (no)

    24. Betsy Ross (no)

    25. Antonin Scalia (too soon).

    26. Harriet Beecher Stowe (no)

    27. Harriet Tubman (not sure; same deal with Audie Murphy).

    28. Booker T. Washington (not sure)

    29. George Washington (yes)

    30. Orville and Wilbur Wright. (not sure).


    Need more figures from industry and engineering. More military. Perhaps some innovators in municipal government. Perhaps some medical pioneers.

    Replies: @anon, @Buzz Mohawk, @Saint Louis

    Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain (not sure who this is)

    Seriously? The hero of Gettysburg. Look him up.

    He was a college professor with no military experience. He volunteered for the Union army and was a general by the end of the war. He fought in 20 battles and was wounded 6 times, including an almost fatal wound (shot through the hip) at Petersburg.

    He later became governor of Maine. Definitely an amazing and heroic man.

    • Replies: @Rapparee
    @Saint Louis

    He’s been one of my personal heroes since childhood. When he supervised the surrender of Confederate forces after Appomattox, General Chamberlain gave his men the order to “carry arms”, as a salute to the bravery and heroism of his defeated foes. In a sane country, that magnanimous act by one of the greatest heroes of the Union cause would be the last word in any debate on the appropriateness of Confederate monuments.

    Replies: @captflee

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @Saint Louis

    He was featured prominently in a US Army leadership manual. Really an amazing man. Turned the tide at Gettysburg with a door-swinging bayonet charge when his men ran out of ammo... also ordered his men to salute the defeated Confederates at Appomattox.

    Replies: @moshe

  117. And how about Charles Goodnight for greatest American cattleman/cowboy:

    Charles Goodnight (March 5, 1836 – December 12, 1929), also known as Charlie Goodnight, was an American cattle rancher in the American West, perhaps the best known rancher in Texas. He is sometimes known as the “father of the Texas Panhandle.” Essayist and historian J. Frank Dobie said that Goodnight “approached greatness more nearly than any other cowman of history.”[1] In 1955, he was inducted into the Hall of Great Westerners of the National Cowboy & Western Heritage Museum.

    Lonesome Dove is a fictionalized account of Goodnight and Loving’s third cattle drive. Woodrow F. Call represents Goodnight, Augustus McCrae is Oliver Loving. Though the characters have personalities rather different from their real-life counterparts, the novel borrows heavily from actual events, in particular Loving’s ambush by Indians and Goodnight’s attentive care as Loving died from an arrow-induced infection. Call returns McCrae’s body to Texas, just as Goodnight returned Loving for burial in Weatherford. The marker that Call carves for Deets is based on an epitaph Charles Goodnight created for Bose Ikard, an ex-slave who worked alongside Goodnight most of his life.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Goodnight

  118. Anonymous[406] • Disclaimer says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen
    Harriet Tubman
    Booker T.
    George W. Carver
    Scott Joplin
    Emmett Till
    Jackie Robinson
    Louis Armstrong
    Rosa Parks
    Malcolm X
    MLK
    Muhammad Ali
    Hank Aaron
    Jesse Jackson
    Stevie Wonder
    Al Sharpton
    Rodney King
    Ice Cube
    Ice T (the rap-ist)
    Mike Tyson
    Oprah Winfrey
    Crystal Mangum
    Beyonce (invented twerking)
    Tupac Shakur
    Tiger Woods
    The Williams sisters
    Barack Hussein Obama
    Michelle Obama
    Malia Obama
    Malia's sister
    Trayvon Martin
    Michael Brown
    George Floyd
    Rayshard Brooks

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Rosa Parks

    Let’s do this right, and have a bit more fun as well: Irene Morgan.

  119. @S. Anonyia
    @Dr. X

    Oh, come on. Christa McAuliffe didn't really do much other than get sadly martyred to NASA's incompetence but Amelia Earhart is the best female on that list. Annie Oakley would be a nice addition, too.

    The founder of New Orleans should be acknowledged (Bienville). As should Lewis and Clark, and if you want to put a Native American in there, Sacajawea. The guy that founded New Mexico for Hispanics.

    Also why no FDR or Kennedy if they are throwing Reagan in there? Both are more historically significant than that puppet. Kennedy for the way his assassination changed the country, FDR for being in office 12 years, steering us through the Depression and WWII (for better or for worse).

    The list is skewed towards boring upright Yankees. There are lots of Southern and Western characters who weren't diehard slaveowners or otherwise problematic.

    And maybe I missed it, but why not Walt Disney?

    Replies: @prosa123, @Art Deco

    Again, the notion Reagan was a ‘puppet’ has been discredited by surviving documentation (which include his marginalia and diaries) and testimonials. He was presented that way by David Stockman, among others. It’s a reasonable inference Stockman didn’t have the people sense to realize when he was being given the brush-off.

    The list is skewed towards boring upright Yankees.

    Until the 1920s, that’s who built and ran just about anything you could name outside the South and outside a few places like Milwaukee

    Oh, come on. Christa McAuliffe didn’t really do much other than get sadly martyred to NASA’s incompetence but Amelia Earhart is the best female on that list. Annie Oakley would be a nice addition, too.

    Annie Oakley was an entertainer. About Earhart, she got a lot of attention due to novelty and due to the public relations skills of her husband-cum-business partner, GP Putnam. This was an engaging documentary: (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1027235/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast). Pay attention to what Elinor Smith had to say about Earhart’s technical skills and the utility of her various projects. And ask yourself how many men were doing what she was doing (and more).

    The only woman on the list that’s a slam dunk is Barton, because she built something of institutional importance.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Art Deco

    "The only woman on the list"

    A few more possibilities for President Blumpft's Garden of Heroes, and it includes a woman:

    Bob Crane (amateur pornographer)

    David Lynch (theoretical physicist)

    Billy Jack (the original white anti-racist)

    Stacy Hamilton (Twitter's first Dog Mom)

    , @S. Anonyia
    @Art Deco

    What’s wrong with a few entertainers on the list? Entertainment is a huge part of American cultural dominance. Annie Oakley was a symbol of the West, like Columbia. I wouldn’t mind Walt Disney, Louis Armstrong, and Elvis in the garden, either. All entertainers, all certainly are dead, inoffensive, and shaped American culture.

    And it doesn’t really matter if men were doing what Earhart was doing. She’s an enigmatic, exciting, and iconic American woman. German and Russian aviatrixes were better later on, but her “publicity” helped pave the way for women in flight globally.

    I see the U.S as a pioneer, adventuring nation not just a nation of ideals/institutions (though I’m not saying those are unimportant and I agree with the assessment of Barton) and the statues should reflect that. Why are we having so many zany problems now? Because of the ridiculous notion that we are only about ideals. Ideals get twisted too easily. Countries who embrace their adventurer/pioneer roots don’t have the magnitude of cultural problems we do (all of Latin America, Australia).

    Make the statues exciting and memorable.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @syonredux, @Anonymous

  120. Anonymous[239] • Disclaimer says:

    Ricky Vaughn

  121. John Smith?

    • Replies: @syonredux
    @Jonathan Mason

    John Winthrop.

  122. @anon
    Some suggestions:

    Astronaut Neil Armstrong

    Philosopher Charles Sanders Pierce

    A trio of statues: Meriwether Lewis, William Clark, Sacagawea

    Dwight D. Eisenhower -- I would prefer him to Douglas MacArthur, for I know at least one military (and politically conservative) man who dislikes MacArthur for his disobedience to the Commander in Chief

    James Madison, father of the Constitution

    Robert Andrews Millikan : American experimental physicist honored with the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1923 for the measurement of the elementary electric charge and for his work on the photoelectric effect.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    I went to summer school at Millikan junior high.

  123. @Jack D
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I think a special section of the Garden should be devoted to our greatest inventors. I just googled for a list of American Inventors and this is what came up under Inventors/ United States:

    Bell and Edison, of course, but then:

    George Washington Carver.

    Lewis Howard Latimer:

    https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_300/MTE4MDAzNDEwNTkzNjc4ODYy/lewis-howard-latimer-9374422-1-402.jpg

    Garrett Morgan:

    https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_300/MTE1ODA0OTcxNzMwODk2Mzk3/garrett-a-morgan-9414691-1-402.jpg

    Madam C.J. Walker:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Madam_CJ_Walker_face_circa_1914.jpg

    Elijah McCoy

    https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_300/MTIwNjA4NjMzODkyMTQ0NjUy/elijah-mccoy-9391300-1-402.jpg

    And so on. Samuel Morse clocks in around #15 between Thomas Jennings and James Edward Maceo West (he will need an extra large pedestal to fit all four of his names).

    I never knew that 8 out of 10 of America's greatest inventors were Black. Racists must have been running my education in those days.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Buzz Mohawk, @Oleg Panczenko

    Good point.

    Clearly, systemic racism is the reason there is a dearth of White inventors. This is why we should propose that there be taxpayer-funded “Invention Enterprise Zones” in White neighborhoods, and special programs in public schools aimed at boosting the inventiveness and self-esteem of White children.

    White kids should learn about overlooked, great, White inventors like:

    Walter Frederick Morrison, inventor of the Frisbee:

    Ron Popeil, inventor of the Veg-O-Matic and the Ronco Pocket Fisherman:

    Mike Lindell, the My Pillow guy:

    Norman Stingley, inventor of the Super Ball:

    Norman doesn’t even get his picture on the internet. This is an outrage!

  124. Anonymous[177] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon
    Some suggestions:

    Astronaut Neil Armstrong

    Philosopher Charles Sanders Pierce

    A trio of statues: Meriwether Lewis, William Clark, Sacagawea

    Dwight D. Eisenhower -- I would prefer him to Douglas MacArthur, for I know at least one military (and politically conservative) man who dislikes MacArthur for his disobedience to the Commander in Chief

    James Madison, father of the Constitution

    Robert Andrews Millikan : American experimental physicist honored with the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1923 for the measurement of the elementary electric charge and for his work on the photoelectric effect.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    Millikan was a Nordicist and eugenicist who associated with actual German Nazis. Seems like there’d be a lot of hurdles for him to make it through:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPcap/2000-03/16/076r-031600-idx.html

    Nobel-winning physicist Robert Millikan, chairman of the Huntington trustees, proudly considered his region “the westernmost outpost of Nordic civilization . . . [with] a population which is twice as Anglo-Saxon as that existing in New York, Chicago or any of the great cities of this country.”

    Millikan, president of the California Institute of Technology, was a Social Darwinist and an active board member of the Human Betterment Foundation, a group engaged in eugenics research. In the 1940s the foundation was documenting the medical sterilization of mentally ill people, and exchanging correspondence with Nazi scientists.

  125. I’d rather have a garden with scandals of the USA: Teapot Dome, Crédit Mobilier, et al. More useful to citizenry to be reminded of the reality of government.

  126. @Jonathan Mason
    John Smith?

    Replies: @syonredux

    John Winthrop.

  127. @Art Deco
    @S. Anonyia

    Again, the notion Reagan was a 'puppet' has been discredited by surviving documentation (which include his marginalia and diaries) and testimonials. He was presented that way by David Stockman, among others. It's a reasonable inference Stockman didn't have the people sense to realize when he was being given the brush-off.


    The list is skewed towards boring upright Yankees.

    Until the 1920s, that's who built and ran just about anything you could name outside the South and outside a few places like Milwaukee

    Oh, come on. Christa McAuliffe didn’t really do much other than get sadly martyred to NASA’s incompetence but Amelia Earhart is the best female on that list. Annie Oakley would be a nice addition, too.

    Annie Oakley was an entertainer. About Earhart, she got a lot of attention due to novelty and due to the public relations skills of her husband-cum-business partner, GP Putnam. This was an engaging documentary: (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1027235/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast). Pay attention to what Elinor Smith had to say about Earhart's technical skills and the utility of her various projects. And ask yourself how many men were doing what she was doing (and more).

    The only woman on the list that's a slam dunk is Barton, because she built something of institutional importance.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @S. Anonyia

    “The only woman on the list”

    A few more possibilities for President Blumpft’s Garden of Heroes, and it includes a woman:

    Bob Crane (amateur pornographer)

    David Lynch (theoretical physicist)

    Billy Jack (the original white anti-racist)

    Stacy Hamilton (Twitter’s first Dog Mom)

  128. Since part of the purpose is to stir up interest, what about including Roy Chapman Andrews?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Hunsdon


    Since part of the purpose is to stir up interest, what about including Roy Chapman Andrews?
     
    Better guy to "stir up interest": Lee Harvey Oswald. Through his native wit and courage, Oswald managed to stay alive long enough to expose a major strand of what was otherwise a well-planned and smoothly executed coup d'état.
  129. Inasmuch as we are going through the military branches…Doug Munro, U.S. Coast Guard, Medal of Honor, Guadalcanal. Munro was in command of several landing craft, landing the Marines. It turned out it was a trap; the Marines would have been slaughtered; they had to be evacuated. Munro maneuvered his landing craft between the Marines in their evacuation craft and the evacuation fire the Marines were receiving. The Japanese were enraged by his audacity. Munro drew their fire. Estimates are that Munro saved 500 Marines. It was a suicide-target mission, and Munro knew it from the start. Munro was of course killed in the process. His dying words: Did the Marines get off okay? This incident deepened forever the mutual high regard between the Marines and the USCG. Semper Paratus.

    • Replies: @Nathan
    @SafeNow

    The only people that mock the Coast Guard are people that don't know the first thing about it.

    https://youtu.be/lWhTXKArV98

    , @captflee
    @SafeNow

    Thanks for that, from an old black hull sailor (WLBs 399 & 400).

    Given that in the last conflict in which we faced an adversary with an actual navy, they sustained casualties at a rate exceeding even that of the Marines, the Merchant Marine ought to be represented as well. I nominate the crew of the SS Stephen Hopkins, but if allowed only one individual, Engine Cadet Edwin J. O'Hara.

  130. @Art Deco
    @S. Anonyia

    Again, the notion Reagan was a 'puppet' has been discredited by surviving documentation (which include his marginalia and diaries) and testimonials. He was presented that way by David Stockman, among others. It's a reasonable inference Stockman didn't have the people sense to realize when he was being given the brush-off.


    The list is skewed towards boring upright Yankees.

    Until the 1920s, that's who built and ran just about anything you could name outside the South and outside a few places like Milwaukee

    Oh, come on. Christa McAuliffe didn’t really do much other than get sadly martyred to NASA’s incompetence but Amelia Earhart is the best female on that list. Annie Oakley would be a nice addition, too.

    Annie Oakley was an entertainer. About Earhart, she got a lot of attention due to novelty and due to the public relations skills of her husband-cum-business partner, GP Putnam. This was an engaging documentary: (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1027235/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast). Pay attention to what Elinor Smith had to say about Earhart's technical skills and the utility of her various projects. And ask yourself how many men were doing what she was doing (and more).

    The only woman on the list that's a slam dunk is Barton, because she built something of institutional importance.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @S. Anonyia

    What’s wrong with a few entertainers on the list? Entertainment is a huge part of American cultural dominance. Annie Oakley was a symbol of the West, like Columbia. I wouldn’t mind Walt Disney, Louis Armstrong, and Elvis in the garden, either. All entertainers, all certainly are dead, inoffensive, and shaped American culture.

    And it doesn’t really matter if men were doing what Earhart was doing. She’s an enigmatic, exciting, and iconic American woman. German and Russian aviatrixes were better later on, but her “publicity” helped pave the way for women in flight globally.

    I see the U.S as a pioneer, adventuring nation not just a nation of ideals/institutions (though I’m not saying those are unimportant and I agree with the assessment of Barton) and the statues should reflect that. Why are we having so many zany problems now? Because of the ridiculous notion that we are only about ideals. Ideals get twisted too easily. Countries who embrace their adventurer/pioneer roots don’t have the magnitude of cultural problems we do (all of Latin America, Australia).

    Make the statues exciting and memorable.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @S. Anonyia

    Here's a statue: John Wesley Powell rafting over a waterfall in the Grand Canyon in 1869.

    Powell wasn't just an explorer, the first man to descend the course of the Colorado River, he was the first American to think rigorously about what to do with the Southwest's limited water. Anglo-American culture was backward at dealing with scarce water because it rains all the time in England.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Trinity, @GeologyAnon Mk 2

    , @syonredux
    @S. Anonyia


    Make the statues exciting and memorable.
     
    Stephen Decatur leading the armed boarding party that destroyed the USS Philadelphia during the First Barbary War....

    Charles Goodnight transporting the body of his slain partner Oliver Loving back to Texas in a sealed coffin....


    Eddie Rickenbacker in his SPAD S.XIII.....

    Robert Goddard standing in front of a liquid-fueled rocket......

    , @Anonymous
    @S. Anonyia


    What’s wrong with a few entertainers on the list?
     
    Because we already have the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame, Hollywood Walk of Fame, and a gazillion other tacky venues honoring pop culture icons that tourists flock to.

    This is supposed to be a sanctuary of national heroes. Not Madame Tussauds. There's nothing heroic about entertainers. Most pop culture icons are the product of the 20th century media monoculture and will be quickly forgotten.
  131. @Saint Louis
    @Art Deco


    Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain (not sure who this is)
     
    Seriously? The hero of Gettysburg. Look him up.

    He was a college professor with no military experience. He volunteered for the Union army and was a general by the end of the war. He fought in 20 battles and was wounded 6 times, including an almost fatal wound (shot through the hip) at Petersburg.

    He later became governor of Maine. Definitely an amazing and heroic man.

    Replies: @Rapparee, @Dave Pinsen

    He’s been one of my personal heroes since childhood. When he supervised the surrender of Confederate forces after Appomattox, General Chamberlain gave his men the order to “carry arms”, as a salute to the bravery and heroism of his defeated foes. In a sane country, that magnanimous act by one of the greatest heroes of the Union cause would be the last word in any debate on the appropriateness of Confederate monuments.

    • Replies: @captflee
    @Rapparee

    In a country where the very concept of honor is largely despised when not entirely disregarded, such an act is incomprehensible to all but a few.

    There was a man.

  132. @S. Anonyia
    @Art Deco

    What’s wrong with a few entertainers on the list? Entertainment is a huge part of American cultural dominance. Annie Oakley was a symbol of the West, like Columbia. I wouldn’t mind Walt Disney, Louis Armstrong, and Elvis in the garden, either. All entertainers, all certainly are dead, inoffensive, and shaped American culture.

    And it doesn’t really matter if men were doing what Earhart was doing. She’s an enigmatic, exciting, and iconic American woman. German and Russian aviatrixes were better later on, but her “publicity” helped pave the way for women in flight globally.

    I see the U.S as a pioneer, adventuring nation not just a nation of ideals/institutions (though I’m not saying those are unimportant and I agree with the assessment of Barton) and the statues should reflect that. Why are we having so many zany problems now? Because of the ridiculous notion that we are only about ideals. Ideals get twisted too easily. Countries who embrace their adventurer/pioneer roots don’t have the magnitude of cultural problems we do (all of Latin America, Australia).

    Make the statues exciting and memorable.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @syonredux, @Anonymous

    Here’s a statue: John Wesley Powell rafting over a waterfall in the Grand Canyon in 1869.

    Powell wasn’t just an explorer, the first man to descend the course of the Colorado River, he was the first American to think rigorously about what to do with the Southwest’s limited water. Anglo-American culture was backward at dealing with scarce water because it rains all the time in England.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    @Steve Sailer

    Powell would also be popular among disabled-rights activists.

    , @Trinity
    @Steve Sailer

    John Wesley Powell was also a slugging first baseman who was better known as Boog Powell or "Booger" for the Baltimore Orioles back in the day.

    Give the Booger a statue.

    Someone mentioning Tom Laughlin aka "Billy Jack" as the "first white anti-racist?" I thought "Billy Jack" was supposed to be an Injun, yo. Good gawd, those Billy Jack movies were cornball even for that time period. I can't believe people actually liked those movies. Those movies were definitely anti-White crapola.

    , @GeologyAnon Mk 2
    @Steve Sailer

    The geologic maps and cross sections he drew, one armed, while bobbing downstream in a leaking raft make mine drawn with two hands on dry land look like a kindergarteners sketches.

    I'm always surprised that story hasn't been made into a movie.

    OT: Bob Hope probably deserves a nod.

  133. Anonymous[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hunsdon
    Since part of the purpose is to stir up interest, what about including Roy Chapman Andrews?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Since part of the purpose is to stir up interest, what about including Roy Chapman Andrews?

    Better guy to “stir up interest”: Lee Harvey Oswald. Through his native wit and courage, Oswald managed to stay alive long enough to expose a major strand of what was otherwise a well-planned and smoothly executed coup d’état.

  134. …the notion that thesis and antithesis makes us stronger is a worthy lesson

    Eh? Since when does isteve promote Marxian dialectic?

    Trump’s existing list already has entirely too much pandering. He’s not going to get any credit from white women for including all those feminist icons. I suppose including MLK might buy a few votes from squishy cuckservatives.

  135. @Jack D
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I think a special section of the Garden should be devoted to our greatest inventors. I just googled for a list of American Inventors and this is what came up under Inventors/ United States:

    Bell and Edison, of course, but then:

    George Washington Carver.

    Lewis Howard Latimer:

    https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_300/MTE4MDAzNDEwNTkzNjc4ODYy/lewis-howard-latimer-9374422-1-402.jpg

    Garrett Morgan:

    https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_300/MTE1ODA0OTcxNzMwODk2Mzk3/garrett-a-morgan-9414691-1-402.jpg

    Madam C.J. Walker:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Madam_CJ_Walker_face_circa_1914.jpg

    Elijah McCoy

    https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2Cw_300/MTIwNjA4NjMzODkyMTQ0NjUy/elijah-mccoy-9391300-1-402.jpg

    And so on. Samuel Morse clocks in around #15 between Thomas Jennings and James Edward Maceo West (he will need an extra large pedestal to fit all four of his names).

    I never knew that 8 out of 10 of America's greatest inventors were Black. Racists must have been running my education in those days.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen, @Buzz Mohawk, @Oleg Panczenko

    Of possible interest:

    Mackintosh, Barry. “George Washington Carver: The Making of A Myth”. The Journal of Southern History 42(1):507-528 (1976-11).

    “Black Invention Myths” http://67.225.133.110/~gbpprorg/invention/

    The Not-So-Real McCoy http://67.225.133.110/~gbpprorg/invention/mccoy.html

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Oleg Panczenko

    Back in the USSR times, it was a running joke that the Soviets claimed that everything had been invented by a Russian. Now, our propaganda arm claims that everything was invented by black people. But if you make a joke about this, you'll be cancelled.

    Replies: @Oleg Panczenko

  136. @S. Anonyia
    @Art Deco

    What’s wrong with a few entertainers on the list? Entertainment is a huge part of American cultural dominance. Annie Oakley was a symbol of the West, like Columbia. I wouldn’t mind Walt Disney, Louis Armstrong, and Elvis in the garden, either. All entertainers, all certainly are dead, inoffensive, and shaped American culture.

    And it doesn’t really matter if men were doing what Earhart was doing. She’s an enigmatic, exciting, and iconic American woman. German and Russian aviatrixes were better later on, but her “publicity” helped pave the way for women in flight globally.

    I see the U.S as a pioneer, adventuring nation not just a nation of ideals/institutions (though I’m not saying those are unimportant and I agree with the assessment of Barton) and the statues should reflect that. Why are we having so many zany problems now? Because of the ridiculous notion that we are only about ideals. Ideals get twisted too easily. Countries who embrace their adventurer/pioneer roots don’t have the magnitude of cultural problems we do (all of Latin America, Australia).

    Make the statues exciting and memorable.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @syonredux, @Anonymous

    Make the statues exciting and memorable.

    Stephen Decatur leading the armed boarding party that destroyed the USS Philadelphia during the First Barbary War….

    Charles Goodnight transporting the body of his slain partner Oliver Loving back to Texas in a sealed coffin….

    Eddie Rickenbacker in his SPAD S.XIII…..

    Robert Goddard standing in front of a liquid-fueled rocket……

    • Agree: S. Anonyia
  137. @Steve Sailer
    @S. Anonyia

    Here's a statue: John Wesley Powell rafting over a waterfall in the Grand Canyon in 1869.

    Powell wasn't just an explorer, the first man to descend the course of the Colorado River, he was the first American to think rigorously about what to do with the Southwest's limited water. Anglo-American culture was backward at dealing with scarce water because it rains all the time in England.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Trinity, @GeologyAnon Mk 2

    Powell would also be popular among disabled-rights activists.

  138. @Saint Louis
    @Art Deco


    Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain (not sure who this is)
     
    Seriously? The hero of Gettysburg. Look him up.

    He was a college professor with no military experience. He volunteered for the Union army and was a general by the end of the war. He fought in 20 battles and was wounded 6 times, including an almost fatal wound (shot through the hip) at Petersburg.

    He later became governor of Maine. Definitely an amazing and heroic man.

    Replies: @Rapparee, @Dave Pinsen

    He was featured prominently in a US Army leadership manual. Really an amazing man. Turned the tide at Gettysburg with a door-swinging bayonet charge when his men ran out of ammo… also ordered his men to salute the defeated Confederates at Appomattox.

    • Replies: @moshe
    @Dave Pinsen

    Hey David, I just joined Twitter and discovered that you are a superstar! at the moment I have only three followers but I would very much like to break past the 5000 line.

    Can you help me do so?

    Believe it or not a hint to my identity is saying that I am who I am.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

  139. Charles Lindbergh. They can’t take the first trans-atlantic flight from him, but nobody will support it. In fact, I’m surprised they haven’t come for the Smithsonian and the Spirit of St. Louis yet.

    Chuck Yeager- Obviously.

    Ray Bradbury

    Lewis, Clark and Sacagawea- something tells me the left would hate it.

  140. Anonymous[383] • Disclaimer says:
    @S. Anonyia
    @Art Deco

    What’s wrong with a few entertainers on the list? Entertainment is a huge part of American cultural dominance. Annie Oakley was a symbol of the West, like Columbia. I wouldn’t mind Walt Disney, Louis Armstrong, and Elvis in the garden, either. All entertainers, all certainly are dead, inoffensive, and shaped American culture.

    And it doesn’t really matter if men were doing what Earhart was doing. She’s an enigmatic, exciting, and iconic American woman. German and Russian aviatrixes were better later on, but her “publicity” helped pave the way for women in flight globally.

    I see the U.S as a pioneer, adventuring nation not just a nation of ideals/institutions (though I’m not saying those are unimportant and I agree with the assessment of Barton) and the statues should reflect that. Why are we having so many zany problems now? Because of the ridiculous notion that we are only about ideals. Ideals get twisted too easily. Countries who embrace their adventurer/pioneer roots don’t have the magnitude of cultural problems we do (all of Latin America, Australia).

    Make the statues exciting and memorable.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @syonredux, @Anonymous

    What’s wrong with a few entertainers on the list?

    Because we already have the Rock ‘n Roll Hall of Fame, Hollywood Walk of Fame, and a gazillion other tacky venues honoring pop culture icons that tourists flock to.

    This is supposed to be a sanctuary of national heroes. Not Madame Tussauds. There’s nothing heroic about entertainers. Most pop culture icons are the product of the 20th century media monoculture and will be quickly forgotten.

  141. @Steve Sailer
    @S. Anonyia

    Here's a statue: John Wesley Powell rafting over a waterfall in the Grand Canyon in 1869.

    Powell wasn't just an explorer, the first man to descend the course of the Colorado River, he was the first American to think rigorously about what to do with the Southwest's limited water. Anglo-American culture was backward at dealing with scarce water because it rains all the time in England.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Trinity, @GeologyAnon Mk 2

    John Wesley Powell was also a slugging first baseman who was better known as Boog Powell or “Booger” for the Baltimore Orioles back in the day.

    Give the Booger a statue.

    Someone mentioning Tom Laughlin aka “Billy Jack” as the “first white anti-racist?” I thought “Billy Jack” was supposed to be an Injun, yo. Good gawd, those Billy Jack movies were cornball even for that time period. I can’t believe people actually liked those movies. Those movies were definitely anti-White crapola.

  142. Political prisoner and editor-in-chief of Wikileaks, Julian Assange.

    In exposing Madam Secretary’s committal of treason of the American people by her Foundation accepting $30 million from Saudi Arabia & Qatar – who were clandestinely supporting & funding ISIL – a declared terrorist organization of the United States – there has never been a foreigner who has done more for the American people.

    I acknowledge that its difficult to prove – yet all the signs were there for the trained eye to see – if Clinton had won that 2016 US Presidential Election – the World would’ve been in WWIII within months of her election!

    And for the Leftists/Dems members/supporters who think Assange &/or Wikileaks has been co-opted, let it be widely known that Assange said of her that he felt sorry for her because [quote] “she has become consumed by her ambition.”

  143. @SafeNow
    Inasmuch as we are going through the military branches...Doug Munro, U.S. Coast Guard, Medal of Honor, Guadalcanal. Munro was in command of several landing craft, landing the Marines. It turned out it was a trap; the Marines would have been slaughtered; they had to be evacuated. Munro maneuvered his landing craft between the Marines in their evacuation craft and the evacuation fire the Marines were receiving. The Japanese were enraged by his audacity. Munro drew their fire. Estimates are that Munro saved 500 Marines. It was a suicide-target mission, and Munro knew it from the start. Munro was of course killed in the process. His dying words: Did the Marines get off okay? This incident deepened forever the mutual high regard between the Marines and the USCG. Semper Paratus.

    Replies: @Nathan, @captflee

    The only people that mock the Coast Guard are people that don’t know the first thing about it.

  144. @Reg Cæsar
    @Buzz Mohawk


    If you want your son to become a great man, name him Henry.
     
    And bring back its old diminutives of Harry and Hal. Henry is very much on the upswing, at #16 his highest ranking since 1919, so he'll need to be distinguished from the others:

    https://www.babynamewizard.com/images/namevoyager/henry.m.png


    (NB: Name choices are more diverse these days, even among the undiverse, so the same ranking today will have a lower per-million figure than a century ago.)

    Henry J. Heinz
     
    Was Clarence Birdseye a force for good, or ill? I think kinda both, and in the same vein...

    Philo Farnsworth
     
    Are you philo-Philo? A Philophile?

    Television has been very much a double-edged sword, allowing us to see the moon landings and both of Nolan Ryan's home runs, but also eating away at family life, reading, and everything else.

    However, I'm spending much of my retirement watching informational vloggers and how-to gurus on YouTube (its good side), so I'll give Philo a mild seconding.

    Frank Lloyd Wright
     
    A complete jerk, an anti-mentor, and the present owners of many of his unarguably handsome structures are suffering from his refusal to listen to warnings from his engineers.

    However, he did indirectly predict "Florida Man" when he observed that the US is tilted to the southwest, because everything loose winds up in California.

    Replies: @Gordo

    If you want your son to become a great man, name him Henry.

    And bring back its old diminutives of Harry and Hal.

    My wife tells me that children who have traditional names tend to do a lot better at school.

    Not direct causation of course.

  145. “John Adams, Susan B. Anthony, Clara Barton, Daniel Boone, Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain, Henry Clay, Davy Crockett, Frederick Douglass, Amelia Earhart, Benjamin Franklin, Billy Graham, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, Martin Luther King, Jr., Abraham Lincoln, Douglas MacArthur, Dolley Madison, James Madison, Christa McAuliffe, Audie Murphy, George S. Patton, Jr., Ronald Reagan, Jackie Robinson, Betsy Ross, Antonin Scalia, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Harriet Tubman, Booker T. Washington, George Washington, and Orville and Wilbur Wright.”

    I think that list probably came directly from President Trump himself. They are the names you would expect of someone who was born in 1946 in America, and encountered the textbooks and historical figures depicted in the popular culture of his times, and was saturated in the radio and TV news of the day. Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone from 1950s popular culture. Harriet Beecher Stowe from high school reading lists. Audie Murphy from the movies, Gen. Patton from the popular 1970 movie, Douglas MacArthur from his being feted in the early 1950s after being fired and so on.

  146. @Buzz Mohawk
    A complete list of American heroes would seem almost endless (and let's hope it keeps growing) but to add to Trump's list and Steve's,

    Henry Knox

    Henry J. Heinz

    Henry Ford

    (If you want your son to become a great man, name him Henry.)

    John A. Roebling, Washington Roebling, and Emily Warren Roebling

    Frank Lloyd Wright

    Philo Farnsworth

    Charles Lindbergh

    Les Paul

    Hyman Rickover

    John Houbolt

    Hugh Hefner :)

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Reg Cæsar, @Jack D, @PiltdownMan

    (If you want your son to become a great man, name him Henry.)

    Or if you want him to become henpecked, perhaps.

  147. How about Philip Hart, Emanuel Celler, Ted Kennedy, the judges on the abortion supreme court, LBJ, Monica Lewinsky, Jeffrey Epstein, Bill Ayers, et al.

    All of those who, taken together, will explain to someone’s slack-jawed descendants how the future America came to be.

  148. @Anonymous
    You know, James Watson is an American...

    Josiah Willard Gibbs' contributions were monumental. In many ways comparable to Maxwell's and Shannon's. Feynman is probably a midget in comparison.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    Anonymous[270] wrote:

    Josiah Willard Gibbs’ contributions were monumental. In many ways comparable to Maxwell’s and Shannon’s. Feynman is probably a midget in comparison

    Well… as a former student of Feynman’s, I don’t think “midget” quite works!

    Maxwell is almost at the same level of Newton and Darwin — almost anyone is a midget compared to those guys. Gibbs is not in the same rank as Maxwell.

    And Shannon was really part of a brilliant team — Harry Nyquist, Ralph Hartley, Richard Hamming, Hendrik Bode, Harold Black et al. — that are still familiar names to electrical engineering students today. Okay, put them all in — they largely made the digital world we live in today.

    • Replies: @adreadline
    @PhysicistDave


    Maxwell is almost at the same level of Newton and Darwin — almost anyone is a midget compared to those guys. Gibbs is not in the same rank as Maxwell.
     
    So for you it goes like this

    Newton = Darwin > Maxwell >> Gibbs

    How can you say that as a physicist? Gibbs helped develop thermodynamics. He discovered fundamental truths about the physical world that don't depend on life existing at all. Darwin explained, often correctly, how things work in biology, which is great, since our planet has evolving life and we too are subject to natural selection, but that's it -- and Wallace almost beat him to it.

    If you put Maxwell "almost'' on Darwin's level because Maxwell didn't accept evolution by natural selection, he had very good reason not to, as Darwin's proposal of how it took course (its mechanism) was wrong.

  149. @Mr. Anon
    @adreadline


    Norman Borlaug is one that could be included and whose inclusion would likely face little resistance from the powers that be, despite him being a (dead, like all others) white male.
     
    Why should we honor a man whose work led to an over-populated Earth and a third-world tied to big petrochemical based agriculture?

    Replies: @adreadline

    A valid question. But Borlaug’s technology, like any other, is neutral. You can argue it was used to overpopulate the Earth with polluting, net consumer browns, but even if that’s the case (it might be, though it’s debatable) that doesn’t have to be its only use.

  150. @PhysicistDave
    @Anonymous

    Anonymous[270] wrote:


    Josiah Willard Gibbs’ contributions were monumental. In many ways comparable to Maxwell’s and Shannon’s. Feynman is probably a midget in comparison
     
    Well... as a former student of Feynman's, I don't think "midget" quite works!

    Maxwell is almost at the same level of Newton and Darwin -- almost anyone is a midget compared to those guys. Gibbs is not in the same rank as Maxwell.

    And Shannon was really part of a brilliant team -- Harry Nyquist, Ralph Hartley, Richard Hamming, Hendrik Bode, Harold Black et al. -- that are still familiar names to electrical engineering students today. Okay, put them all in -- they largely made the digital world we live in today.

    Replies: @adreadline

    Maxwell is almost at the same level of Newton and Darwin — almost anyone is a midget compared to those guys. Gibbs is not in the same rank as Maxwell.

    So for you it goes like this

    Newton = Darwin > Maxwell >> Gibbs

    How can you say that as a physicist? Gibbs helped develop thermodynamics. He discovered fundamental truths about the physical world that don’t depend on life existing at all. Darwin explained, often correctly, how things work in biology, which is great, since our planet has evolving life and we too are subject to natural selection, but that’s it — and Wallace almost beat him to it.

    If you put Maxwell “almost” on Darwin’s level because Maxwell didn’t accept evolution by natural selection, he had very good reason not to, as Darwin’s proposal of how it took course (its mechanism) was wrong.

  151. @dearieme
    @PiltdownMan

    Spot on with Josiah Willard Gibbs.

    The Edison/Tesla yarn is a strangely parochial affair. As a Wikipedia article describes, almost all the first early advances in electrical lighting and power had nothing to do with either of them, having happened outside the USA.

    It's as if some fool decided to write the history of universities by focussing on Oxford vs Cambridge when universities actually started in Italy.

    Douglas MacArthur and George S. Patton also seem odd choices to me. Why not Ike, who had the twin advantages of being both sane and a consistently successful generalissimo?

    Replies: @BenKenobi, @Jefferson Temple

    You’d have to first address the historical charges against Ike. He stands accused of ordering a genocide of German POWs at the end of the war. You can’t build a statue to him unless he can be convincingly cleared of all charges.

  152. @Steve Sailer
    @S. Anonyia

    Here's a statue: John Wesley Powell rafting over a waterfall in the Grand Canyon in 1869.

    Powell wasn't just an explorer, the first man to descend the course of the Colorado River, he was the first American to think rigorously about what to do with the Southwest's limited water. Anglo-American culture was backward at dealing with scarce water because it rains all the time in England.

    Replies: @prosa123, @Trinity, @GeologyAnon Mk 2

    The geologic maps and cross sections he drew, one armed, while bobbing downstream in a leaking raft make mine drawn with two hands on dry land look like a kindergarteners sketches.

    I’m always surprised that story hasn’t been made into a movie.

    OT: Bob Hope probably deserves a nod.

  153. @Trinity
    Marv Throneberry

    Replies: @FPD72, @adreadline

    • Strongly Disagree:

  154. @Oleg Panczenko
    @Jack D

    Of possible interest:

    Mackintosh, Barry. "George Washington Carver: The Making of A Myth". The Journal of Southern History 42(1):507-528 (1976-11).

    "Black Invention Myths" http://67.225.133.110/~gbpprorg/invention/

    The Not-So-Real McCoy http://67.225.133.110/~gbpprorg/invention/mccoy.html

    Replies: @Jack D

    Back in the USSR times, it was a running joke that the Soviets claimed that everything had been invented by a Russian. Now, our propaganda arm claims that everything was invented by black people. But if you make a joke about this, you’ll be cancelled.

    • Replies: @Oleg Panczenko
    @Jack D

    Which brings to mind an old Soviet-Era Joke:

    A museum guide is explaining the busts of famous Russians to a group of school children.

    "Here is a bust of Comrade Sergei Antonovich, the inventor of the airplane."

    "And here is a bust of Comrade Stain, the inventor of Comrade Sergei Antonovich."

  155. For spanish you can have Admiral “damn the torpedoes’ Farrgot – guy commanded a prize crew home at age 12!

  156. @Rapparee
    @Saint Louis

    He’s been one of my personal heroes since childhood. When he supervised the surrender of Confederate forces after Appomattox, General Chamberlain gave his men the order to “carry arms”, as a salute to the bravery and heroism of his defeated foes. In a sane country, that magnanimous act by one of the greatest heroes of the Union cause would be the last word in any debate on the appropriateness of Confederate monuments.

    Replies: @captflee

    In a country where the very concept of honor is largely despised when not entirely disregarded, such an act is incomprehensible to all but a few.

    There was a man.

  157. @SafeNow
    Inasmuch as we are going through the military branches...Doug Munro, U.S. Coast Guard, Medal of Honor, Guadalcanal. Munro was in command of several landing craft, landing the Marines. It turned out it was a trap; the Marines would have been slaughtered; they had to be evacuated. Munro maneuvered his landing craft between the Marines in their evacuation craft and the evacuation fire the Marines were receiving. The Japanese were enraged by his audacity. Munro drew their fire. Estimates are that Munro saved 500 Marines. It was a suicide-target mission, and Munro knew it from the start. Munro was of course killed in the process. His dying words: Did the Marines get off okay? This incident deepened forever the mutual high regard between the Marines and the USCG. Semper Paratus.

    Replies: @Nathan, @captflee

    Thanks for that, from an old black hull sailor (WLBs 399 & 400).

    Given that in the last conflict in which we faced an adversary with an actual navy, they sustained casualties at a rate exceeding even that of the Marines, the Merchant Marine ought to be represented as well. I nominate the crew of the SS Stephen Hopkins, but if allowed only one individual, Engine Cadet Edwin J. O’Hara.

  158. @Bardon Kaldian
    OT- Eric Weinstein posing some good questions & hypotheses. You may agree or disagree,but he's at least trying to breathe some fresh air in the by now somewhat stale affair...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1UTfuEAYa0

    Replies: @Bumpkin

    Wtf are you talking about? Not only is there almost nothing in there about Epstein, he simply repeats the bizarre talking point of the few Epstein defenders that the age of the girls was legal as far as they knew, then rambles about how scientific research is underfunded for awhile before saying that’s why he wrote a tweet welcoming Epstein back when he got out of jail for soliciting teenagers for sexual acts. It’s obvious to anyone with a brain that the entire clip is spirited hand-waving to justify that appalling tweet.

    He even goes on to say later in the larger video that your clip is from that he suspected that Israel was behind Epstein, and if so, only the few Mossad agents who decided that should be blamed not the entire Mossad.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if this guy Weinstein was one of Epstein’s jewish enablers, like Wexner and Brockman, and he’s just trying to cover and explain his involvement by ostensibly being open about how he “suspected” Epstein was a spy all along.

  159. @GeologyAnon Mk 2
    @kaganovitch

    Unless I am greatly mistaken, Mitchell never served in the USAF, but was strictly an army air corps guy. So the army would have claim to him, not the Air Force. Dolittle would be a good guy to round out their 4.

    Rickenbacker also-- he's the Army's to claim, not the Air Force's.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    You are right, Mitchell was never Air Force. My mistake.

  160. @Dave Pinsen
    @Saint Louis

    He was featured prominently in a US Army leadership manual. Really an amazing man. Turned the tide at Gettysburg with a door-swinging bayonet charge when his men ran out of ammo... also ordered his men to salute the defeated Confederates at Appomattox.

    Replies: @moshe

    Hey David, I just joined Twitter and discovered that you are a superstar! at the moment I have only three followers but I would very much like to break past the 5000 line.

    Can you help me do so?

    Believe it or not a hint to my identity is saying that I am who I am.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
    @moshe

    I'm not a superstar. If you want people to follow you on Twitter, try replying to popular tweets with interesting comments.

  161. @Jack D
    @Oleg Panczenko

    Back in the USSR times, it was a running joke that the Soviets claimed that everything had been invented by a Russian. Now, our propaganda arm claims that everything was invented by black people. But if you make a joke about this, you'll be cancelled.

    Replies: @Oleg Panczenko

    Which brings to mind an old Soviet-Era Joke:

    A museum guide is explaining the busts of famous Russians to a group of school children.

    “Here is a bust of Comrade Sergei Antonovich, the inventor of the airplane.”

    “And here is a bust of Comrade Stain, the inventor of Comrade Sergei Antonovich.”

  162. @Anonymous
    @ganderson


    The College Board (and I speak with some authority here, as I was a button man in the AP Mafia) which meets all the criteria for an organized criminal conspiracy under the RICO statutes, has made it its goal in life to make history less interesting for boys.
     
    How so?

    What is a “button man in the AP Mafia”?

    Replies: @Ganderson

    Apparently I‘m not as clever As I think I am. I feel the AP is a bad organization, like a Mafia family. I used to be a reader (one who grades the essays on the AP US History exam). I did it because I thought it would help me help my students do better on the test. So I was the equivalent of an ordinary soldier, or “ button man”.

  163. Yawn. Anything but putting Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee in the garden is a cuck. So why bother?

  164. Josh Billings. Let’s not be too cork up the arse with our garden. Humor can get you through tough times.

    My fave: Korn has got one thing that noboddy else has got , and that iz a kob . This kob runs thru the middle ov the korn , and iz as phull ov korn as Job waz ov biles His Works, Complete. 1876.

  165. @moshe
    @Dave Pinsen

    Hey David, I just joined Twitter and discovered that you are a superstar! at the moment I have only three followers but I would very much like to break past the 5000 line.

    Can you help me do so?

    Believe it or not a hint to my identity is saying that I am who I am.

    Replies: @Dave Pinsen

    I’m not a superstar. If you want people to follow you on Twitter, try replying to popular tweets with interesting comments.

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