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In Education Week, a black lady reporter ponders a perennial question with less bigotry and hate than is the norm these days:

Who’s to Blame for the Black-White Achievement Gap?

By Christina A. Samuels
January 7, 2020

My SAT scores might have remained a bit of trivia had I not become an education reporter. But my career has given me a reason to think a lot about testing, and what seems to be an intractable test-score gap between black students (as well as Hispanic and American Indian and Alaska Native students) and white and Asian students.

It sounds naive, but at the start of my career as an education reporter, I really wondered: Why is there such a big black-white test gap? I mean, I’m no genius, but I did OK. Why does this gulf never seem to close?

It’s becoming easier to look at the SATs, specifically, and say those scores don’t matter any more. Some of the nation’s most exclusive colleges and universities—Bowdoin, Wake Forest, the University of Chicago, and other well-respected liberal arts institutions—have become test-optional. It’s an ironic dismissal of a test that was originally created to bring equity to the college admissions process.

But the same ethnic and racial gaps exist across all kinds of tests, not just assessments for college admissions. One could argue that the SAT is too easily influenced by outside factors, such as test-prep classes. But students don’t prep for the National Assessment for Educational Progress, and the so-called “Nation’s Report Card” shows similar gaps.

Good point.

Teachers have one of the closest views of student performance, and Education Week recently asked them what they believe are the factors that explain why white students, overall, perform better academically than black students. (The survey respondents were predominantly white, like the teaching population as a whole, with 20 to 30 years in the classroom.)

Due to education reforms in the 1990s to give students better teachers, the public school teaching profession at present has surprisingly little affirmative action (public school administration, in contrast, has a lot).

The teachers were given a number of factors to choose from: genetics, discrimination, school quality, student motivation, parenting, income levels, home environments, and neighborhood environments.

The explanation of student performance, those teachers said, rests primarily with the students and their parents. Three-quarters or more of respondents said that motivation, parenting, income, home environments, and neighborhood environments explained student academic gaps “somewhat,” “quite a lot,” or “extremely.”

Seventy-two percent said “school quality” was a major factor. A little less than half said that discrimination played a major role.

A notable minority, about 29 percent, said that genetics are somewhat to extremely significant in explaining academic gaps between black students and white students. (An even higher percentage of respondents, 38 percent, said genetics are a significant reason why Asian students in the aggregate have better academic outcomes than their white peers.)

I bet the ~25% of teachers who said yes on both the white-black and Asian-white gaps having a genetic component are likely to give better practical advice on how to improve schooling than are the True Believers. Of course, any study that searched out courageous realist teachers to find out their advice would likely turn into a Let a Hundred Flowers Bloom (and then chop them off) situation.

But “black” is as much a social construct as it is a matter of genetic heritage: I have two black parents and call myself black. So does Barack Obama, who has one white parent. So does Kamala Harris, a U.S. senator from California, who has one parent from India. The category of “black” is fluid, as are other racial and ethnic categories—and geneticists agree that we are more different from each other as individuals, than we are as populations grouped by “race.”

Okay, but that actually works in the opposite direction. A lot of people who use this argument don’t realize that the fact that self-identified blacks include lots of people with substantial white ancestry, some of them high scorers like Barack Obama, would tend to narrow the test score gap.

I was defensive and annoyed when I analyzed the results of this survey. “It’s not our fault!” seemed to be the takeaway from teachers, but kids spend up to 13 years of their lives in school. Of course what happens there is relevant.

But I have to acknowledge some truth in what these teachers are saying. Yes, it mattered that my parents were middle-class, college-educated folks who filled my childhood home with books.

She ends up focusing on wealth as an explanation, which doesn’t really do it. But I appreciate the general tone of the article, which is much more civil and sensible than is common in 2020.

Also I didn’t see the word “hair” anywhere in Ms. Samuels’ article. It’s like a Blast from the Past.

 
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  1. Education Week recently asked them what they believe are the factors that explain why white students, overall, perform better academically than black students. (The survey respondents were predominantly white

    One thing this passage reveals is that the survey wasn’t anonymous, or at least it depends on self-reported qualities. Given the subject matter, both of these facts are likely significant.

    I was defensive and annoyed when I analyzed the results of this survey.

    And this is what we call “Science” in the year 2020.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  2. Some of the nation’s most exclusive colleges and universities—Bowdoin, Wake Forest, the University of Chicago, and other well-respected liberal arts institutions—have become test-optional.

    Is this really true for Caucasian and Asian students? Or is the de facto test drop only applicable to NAMs and to children of wealthy donors? Let’s hope that it’s the latter, or else the rot has spread beyond the soft bigotry of low expectations zone.

    Come quickly, repeal of Griggs v. Duke Power!

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  3. donut says:

    The poor woman , she seems to be on the verge of noticing .

    • LOL: Twodees Partain
  4. danand says:

    Could be the fault of the airlines, at least today in Los Angeles; what with their gassing of the students:

  5. The explanation of student performance, those teachers said, rests primarily with the students and their parents. Three-quarters or more of respondents said that motivation, parenting, income, home environments, and neighborhood environments explained student academic gaps “somewhat,” “quite a lot,” or “extremely.”

    For some of the respondents, maybe this is a roundabout way of ascribing it to genetics of the students and their parents.

  6. Yeah, it is pretty common that kids who grow up in stable, middle class, homes with two involved parents who encourage them to read and to do well in school tend to do better in school than the “ghetto” kids, as my kids call them. Whatever the race.

    It appears to me that the vast majority of the factors which lead to the test score disparities take place outside the school. Many factors take place before the kid starts pre-school. Some factors take place before the kid is ever born. And we don’t know the exact percentages, and I doubt we will, at least not in the next century or so.

    Of course, the school boards decide all the burden of fixing all these problems lies with the teachers.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    , @Medvedev
  7. “Teachers have one of the closest views of student performance, and Education Week recently asked them what they believe are the factors that explain why white students, overall, perform better academically than black students”

    How come they never ask why Northeast Asians perform better then White students.

    This woman is obviously an idiot.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    , @Ed
  8. Education like the Postal Service is a Jobs Program for the Community. Once hired you can’t be fired.

  9. Anonymous[347] • Disclaimer says:

    Let’s see. Hmmmm.

    Who are we to blame?

    Answer: The same dastardly people who are responsible for the black-Asian achievement gap?!

    Could it be?

    Or maybe it’s those other sneaky villains… the ones who are responsible for the Hispanic-Asian achievement gap?!

    No it can’t be.

    Just who are the gap makers? And why should they remain free to run around making gaps?

    • LOL: Joseph Doaks
  10. istevefan says:

    People often point to the poor living conditions of blacks as part of the explanation of the black-White gap. And it definitely plays some role. But it also plays a role in White outcomes too. Whites have been upended for quite some time now. The number of White kids from divorced homes is at levels that people 50 years ago would not imagine. The social rot and drug use that has affected blacks has also had an effect on Whites.

    So if you argue that the poor living conditions of blacks has contributed to the gap, then it has also contributed to the gap being narrower since many Whites are not producing up to their potential due to similar circumstances.

    Though I have no problem accepting that NE Asians have higher IQs, would the Asian-White gap be as high as it is now if Whites had the better family structure of the NE Asians?

  11. Forbes says:

    Due to education reforms in the 1990s to give students better teachers, the public school teaching profession at present has surprisingly little affirmative action

    I don’t think that stands up to scrutiny–in New York State, at least. The State Education Department has been dumbing-down the state teacher certification exams–especially in response to poor minority (mostly black) passing rates, where another achievement “gap” proliferates.

    • Replies: @education realist
  12. J1234 says:

    Who’s to Blame for the Black-White Achievement Gap?

    God.

    • Agree: Old Prude
    • LOL: JMcG
    • Replies: @NOTA
  13. Twinkie says:

    wealth as an explanation

    It’s like they refuse to see what’s right in front of them.

    But I appreciate the general tone of the article, which is much more civil and sensible than is common in 2020.

    So, we should be satisfied that they don’t call hereditarians evil racists all the while they ignore the obvious hereditarian evidences.

    • Replies: @NOTA
  14. Twinkie says:
    @Lockean Proviso

    Caucasian and Asian students

    Chechens? 😉

    • Replies: @Lockean Proviso
  15. danand says:

    “Yes, it mattered that my parents” passed down through to me their genetic material. Better students start with better eggs, that’s the Headstart that that matters.

    00B9D860-1CD8-4DF0-B9B2-014AF7D0E3F6

  16. Who is to blame?

    Round up the usual (white, male) suspects!

  17. If I was to hazard a guess about the cause of the gap I might say while one set of kids was memorizing lyrics to the latest hip-hop recording, the other set was busy hitting the books.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  18. farenheit says:

    I’d be interested to see what kind of gap would come out of the ASVAB, which the US military has been administering in one form or another for over a century, and probably has a data set in the tens of millions.

    Particularly I’d be interested to know what the gap was for poor depression era whites and blacks from the rural South heading into WWII. This might take some of these post ’60s variables out of the equation.

  19. res says:

    black lady reporter ponders a perennial question with less bigotry and hate than is the norm these days:

    Probably related to:

    I mean, I’m no genius, but I did OK.

    The SAT gap isn’t personal for her.

    • Replies: @vhrm
  20. CCR says:

    Is there a gap for students of the same IQ regardless of race? Any studies been done on that?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  21. Dr. X says:

    Who’s to Blame for the Black-White Achievement Gap?

    God Almighty or evolution… take your pick.

  22. Anon[174] • Disclaimer says:

    Two pet peevey points:

    1. “… geneticists agree that we are more different from each other as individuals, than we are as populations grouped by “race.”

    This is true. What it means is that although the mean IQ of blacks and whites are a single standard deviation apart, if you look at all blacks, they are spread over four or six or more standard deviations, as are all whites, and these spans mostly overlap.

    So for the most part, at any IQ level there are blacks and whites.

    However, the 1 SD difference (as well as a narrower variance) means that there are substantially fewer blacks, proportionally to their representation in the population, than whites, at any IQ over about 80, and the higher you go, the more disproportionate things get (and at the extreme right tail blacks disappear altogether).

    For instance, 25 percent of whites have IQs over 110 (the old fashioned de facto cutoff for university attendance and the professions), while less than 3 percent of blacks reach that level. Taking current United States race percentages, 62 percent non-Hispanic white and 13 percent black, and simplifying things by assuming that there are only blacks and non-Hispanic whites, a 1,000-member entering class at a university would contain about 980 n-H whites and 20 blacks, if admissions were based on random selection of all applicants reaching a minimum threshold of an IQ of 110, and it would be worse if admissions were done in rank order from the top down.

    And yet, indeed, it is still true that “we are more different from each other as individuals, than we are as populations grouped by race.”

    2. “Yes, it mattered that my parents were middle-class, college-educated folks who filled my childhood home with books.”

    This will never die, I suppose, but the “book access” theory of IQ has long since been debunked (as has the MSG Chinese restaurant syndrome, but that also lives on in folklore), including by twin studies. Rather than her parents’ “filling her home with books,” her father “filled her mother’s vagina with semen,” which, after fertilization gave the writer a genome that created a person with sufficient intelligence to appreciate books and seek them out, just as her parents’ genomes motivated them to fill their home with books. If adopted by illiterates at birth, she still would have nagged someone into taking her to the library.

    Short of the feral child raised by wolves situation, a smart kid will one way or another get ahold of books, whatever the home situation is, and a dumb kid will ignore books if they are not shoved down his throat, and if shoved down his throat, any effect will fade out within two years.

    • Replies: @GoRedWings!
    , @nebulafox
  23. Arclight says:

    At this particular moment in our culture, a return to citing the home/neighborhood for poor black student performance (and everything else) would be a huge improvement over the current standard explanation of white supremacy, redlining, over discipline, etc. It’s only half an answer, but there is truth behind it.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
  24. @europeasant

    How come they never ask why Northeast Asians perform better then White students.

    Evidently they did. From the article..“(An even higher percentage of respondents, 38 percent, said genetics are a significant reason why Asian students in the aggregate have better academic outcomes than their white peers.)”

  25. FWIW, my otherwise almsot completely apolitical family member, who is the division chief of one of the most important divisions in a major US state (ostensibly conservative) med school, is reporting concern over med school student admissions choose students for PC reasons over academic performance. The normies are waking up.

  26. MEH 0910 says:

    Who’s What’s to Blame for the Black-White Achievement Gap?

  27. “Also I didn’t see the word “hair” anywhere in Ms. Samuels’ article. ”

    Yeah….but you know she was thinking about it.

  28. I bet the ~25% of teachers who said yes on both the white-black and Asian-white gaps having a genetic component are likely to give better practical advice on how to improve schooling than are the True Believers.

    Speaking of true believers…

    I knew a teacher born in Minnesota in the 1920s, brought up in a traditional Lutheran environment, who taught for decades in an LA County suburb. Her experience with younger, idealistic teachers taught her that the most trustworthy metric for predicting whether such a person was going to swim or sink in her increasingly diversifying district was a firm belief in Original Sin.

    Now that’s the ultimate genetic factor!

  29. Anon[200] • Disclaimer says:

    some of them high scorers like Barack Obama,

    Not sure why you think Obama had high test scores. Despite multiple probings from Trump, Obama never released his SAT scores. There are rumors he scored even lower than George W. And his daughter Malia’s scores are lower still.

    If you assume a high score is necessary to get into Columbia, well, he didn’t get into Columbia. He got into Occidental, then transferred to Columbia under the guaranteed transfer program for minorities. It’s the backdoor into the Ivy League for low scoring blacks.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
  30. @Mr McKenna

    Even if teachers are being honest, a “survey” of their opinions about why some kids aren’t as smart as others is hardly a scientific inquiry.

    All the alleged causative factors could be confirmed or ruled out by properly designed studies that held other factors constant.

    But yet it never fails, the fallback answer is always to blame some mystery factor that can’t be identified, but that also has some rough correlation to income. Gee, what could it be? We’ll just have to keep funding more studies and surveys.

    • Replies: @Anon
  31. @Twinkie

    Yeah, I know. It’s an attempt to use a capitalization sometimes instead of lowly lower-cased white, especially next to “Asian.” “European-descent” is ponderous, and “Americans” no longer means the same. Using “European-Americans” is giving in to the notion that the majority is merely another subgroup, and “White” is simply incorrect (as is “Black.”) So, “Caucasians” for now. Suggestions welcome.

    • Replies: @Mokiki
  32. vhrm says:

    So 9% of the polled teachers believe that Asian-white differences are significantly genetic, but don’t think the same about white-black differences?

    I wonder how they square that circle.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    , @NOTA
  33. Anon[262] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s interesting that she calls the gap “intractable,” which is what Charles Murray calls it. “Do you think the gap is genetic or environmental?” “It’s intractable.”

  34. vhrm says:
    @res

    She says she took it in the 80s and

    My final scores landed me in the 99th percentile of college-bound high school seniors nationally at the time; my math score was in the 75th percentile. “Good enough,” I thought, and proceeded to forget about them for years.

    I assume she means 99th English and 75th Math? It seems unlikely you could get 99th overall w/ only 75th math, but that’s still respectable, so what you say makes some sense.

    I’d be curious how she sees herself intelligence wise compared to other black people she interacts with. If there are many she is likely to be quite smart in those groups. Maybe she assume it’s just because she’s more learned and that’s all that’s going on?

    (just speaking statistically)

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Bill
    , @res
  35. Anon[262] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    The end of the piece quotes a black Harvard economist who has somehow gotten himself christened as an achievement gap expert as saying that the key is early-brain development. This appears to boil down to dialing down the crack and booze during pregnancy, getting really cool mobiles for the crib, and having mom, dad, and the local drag queen read stories to the kid.

  36. bispora says:

    The answer for the main question is in the video of professor Robert Plomin’s talk at Google.
    While he had no even one sentence on racial difference in educational achievement, after his speech everybody knows the correct answer: if we see afroamerican and white groups as extended families, parents are responsible for the gap trough their inherited genes…

    • Replies: @Anon
  37. Ed says:
    @europeasant

    Someone commented without reading the article. So who is the idiot now?

  38. Ed says:

    Conversely here’s a standard USA Today story on the topic that blames the usual media suspects, racist teachers and society.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2020/01/13/nyc-doe-racist-segregation-brooklyn-specialized-high-school-exam-gifted/2763549001/

    Evidently the nice white lady author is “troubled” that black and Hispanics parents also oppose eliminating gifted programs:

    Then there’s the troubling fact that the move to eliminate gifted programs is opposed by some black and Latino parents, whose kids it’s supposed to help. Some of those parents see elementary school gifted programs, as well as elite high schools, as the only way for their children to work hard and get ahead.

    The real kicker is that the article states unequivocally that cognitive ability is not the reason for the gap, you bigot. She has research!

    Those divides are not due to cognitive differences between races, but a function of access, resources and systemic bias against blacks and Latinos, education experts said.

    Studies show nonblack teachers are less likely to recommend black students for gifted and talented programs. Another study showed that when parents and teachers nominated children, they missed many qualified students. When the large urban district in that study, Broward County Public Schools in Florida, switched to screening all children in second grade, more low-income and minority students were placed in gifted programs.

    • Replies: @bigdicknick
  39. @vhrm

    Her high verbal score might explain why her article is more reasonable and less aggrieved than most these days.

    • Replies: @res
  40. @Paleo Liberal

    Actually the VOTERS decided teachers are to blame.

  41. The average black IQ in Africa is 68. In the US it is 85. America already works very hard to make blacks 25% smarter–how in the heck could we ever expect better results?

    • Replies: @Flip
    , @Jack D
  42. Anon[174] • Disclaimer says:

    Ms. Samuels late last year reported on a study out of Stanford that put the blame on poverty, so that might be what she is leaning on in her judgment:

    https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2019/10/02/poverty-not-race-fuels-the-achievement-gap.html

    (PDF) https://edopportunity.org/papers/wp19-06-v092019.pdf

    The lead author is a white sociologist (all degrees are in education though) who identifies as lowercase, judging by how his, and only his, name is styled in the paper (although most other web references to him do not do this). He holds the endowed Professor of Poverty and Inequality in Education chair at Stanford. Here is some of the stuff he studies, courtesy Wikipedia:

    Reardon and O’Sullivan have argued that spatial information theory indices and spatial exposure/isolation indices are better measures of spatial segregation than indices of spatial relative diversity and spatial dissimilarity.

    I think this means that blacks and whites tend to live in different school districts or in neighborhoods that result in their kids’ going to different schools. But if you only have an education degree, it’s important to use a lot of obfuscatory jargon in your papers if you want tenure.

    • LOL: kaganovitch
    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @res
  43. Medvedev says:
    @Paleo Liberal

    Yeah, it is pretty common that kids who grow up in stable, middle class, homes with two involved parents who encourage them to read and to do well in school tend to do better in school than the “ghetto” kids, as my kids call them. Whatever the race.

    Only White kids from poor families with income of $30k perform better then Black kids from upper-middle income families with income ~$150-200k.

  44. Bill says:
    @vhrm

    If she’s telling the truth, she’s smarter than her fellow (often white) reporters. That experience, being smarter than the white people around you in your job, is unusual for a black American. Affirmative Action means that, controlling for level of “success,” the black is usually dumber than the people around him.

  45. Flip says:
    @Lawyer Guy

    The average black IQ in Africa is 68. In the US it is 85. America already works very hard to make blacks 25% smarter–how in the heck could we ever expect better results?

    American blacks have 20% European ancestry though, which impacts the result.

  46. Anon[174] • Disclaimer says:
    @bispora

    The answer for the main question is in the video of professor Robert Plomin’s talk at Google.

    Was this at Google in the U.K.?

    It’s funny how, compared to most Google Talks, at least at the head office, there were hardly any questions. The Q&A is always the highlight of these Google Talk videos, with brainiac Aspergers Googlers showing off and trying to upstage the speaker with verbose, geeky “questions” that contain no question.

    I am imagining that the typical audience member was thinking that Plomin was very problematic, but that “I, as a smart person, do not want to try to go head to head with him on the science because he may be right, actually, he sounds right, and I will look dumb. Is looking dumb better or worse than looking alt-Right? Maybe I will just stay quiet.”

    Plomin’s crack about President Clinton was very layered. “Clinton is an example of random environmental input because he said he went into politics because he shook JFK’s hand. But maybe Clinton was lying, in light of his other statements, hahaha.” Audience is thinking: Clinton was a Democrat, so Plomin must be a Nazi Republican! Wait, Clinton put thousands of black bodies of color in prison, so good people hate him … or do they? Oh, I’m so confused!

    But if I were Plomin, I’d get rid of the Clinton crack just to be on the safe side.

  47. @vhrm

    I wonder how they square that circle.

    They square that circle by saying “They say this survey is anonymous, I wonder if that’s true?”

  48. Who’s to blame for the apples-oranges gap?

    Who’s to blame for the alligator-pineapple gap?

    There is no black-white achievement gap, and there never was, and there never will be. Blacks achieve precisely what they are able to achieve, as do Whites. Better to look at differences within respective groups, for clues to improvement, if there can be any.

    If “racism” (which is now a meaningless term except regarding structural hostility to Whites) is to blame for the alleged black-White “achievement” gap, then is racism also to blame for the even wider black-Jewish gap? Or the smaller but still detectable black-Latino gap?

    Besides, there are as many achievement gaps as there are achievements. How can we close the black-Pacific Islander gap in professional leaping about and throwing a rubber ball through a hoop? What about the Latino-Jewish gap in plotting and scheming? Will there continue to be a Jewish-Indian gap in ethno-nepotism, or has that gap already closed? What about the White-Asian gap in cheating at tests? Or the black-Indian gap in raping White girls?

    So many gaps, so little time. This is all much easier in Korea.

  49. @Ed

    “Those divides are not due to cognitive differences between races, but a function of access, resources and systemic bias against blacks and Latinos, education experts said.”

    Well there you have it! It’s just a fact, dude. No citations or evidence necessary. Don’t believe me? I am 100% prepared to call you racist.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon, vhrm
    • Replies: @Poco
  50. Jack D says:
    @CCR

    No, academic performance and IQ are pretty much synonymous on a statistical basis. You can have individuals who over perform or under perform academically based on their IQ but for large groups they are highly correlated.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  51. Jack D says:
    @Enemy of Earth

    That may be part of it but only part. The other part is genetic so no amount of hitting the books is going to close 100% of the gap.

    But closing say half of it would be nice. But to do that you’d have to do social interventions far beyond what our society would tolerate. Turning a ghetto family into an Asian Tiger family is no small thing. Nothing you do at school is going to help because the kid is with his family 87% of the time.

    • Replies: @Enemy of Earth
  52. Jack D says:
    @Anon

    Professor of Poverty

    Wow, back in my day you didn’t need a professor to teach you how to be poor. In fact you could get a job waitressing at the coffee shop without any degree at all. Times have changed, I guess.

    If I was a Professor of Poverty I would do my best to make sure that it continued to exist because if poverty disappeared then I would be out of a job and poor myself.

  53. Jack D says:
    @Lawyer Guy

    Yes, massa worked very hard on his slave girls to improve their kid’s IQ.

    • Replies: @res
  54. @Jack D

    I agree with your comment and believe you are 100% correct. Growing up our family never had much money. In spite of our particular familial dysfunction we always had enough to eat and there were always books and magazines around the house. My most cherished heirloom after the passing of our parents was a set of Great Books of the Western World. My father was a prolific reader who always had a couple of books going at any time. A love of reading was instilled in us by example. I had been reading for almost a year prior to entering kindergarten thanks to an older sister who taught me the alphabet and says I just took off from there.

    Many parents today seem to think schools should be responsible for the training of their children. Nothing could be further from the truth. Parental ownership of this task is vital to raising healthy (in body and mind) children.

    It’s easier to blame “pick your favorite ism” for one’s offspring’s shortcomings rather than self examination and taking ownership of the means and ways to address said deficiencies.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @J.Ross
  55. res says:
    @vhrm

    Thanks for following up. Let’s estimate some scores from that information.

    According to this site: https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/oldSATIQ.aspx
    top 1% composite V+M on the pre-1995 SAT was 1300. Between 1270-1280 is the 98.5th percentile which would round up to 99. Does anyone know for sure how the SAT score reports handle rounding of percentiles? I am guessing they are optimistic for everything except for >99.5 since they report numbers from 1-99. Looking at this document:
    https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/understanding-sat-scores.pdf
    They appear to use 99+ and 1- for >= 99.5 and < 0.5 respectively.

    Dorans 2004 is a great reference for SAT 1995 recentering information and 1990 distribution histograms overall and by sex or race.
    https://www.ets.org/Media/Research/pdf/RR-02-04-Dorans.pdf

    Looking at Figure 15 (use the original scale version on the top) we see that 99th verbal was about 700, 99th math was about 750, and 75th math was around 560-570.

    With those numbers a score of 570 math and 730 verbal would give a 99th percentile 1300 composite. That sounds plausible to me, but your interpretation is possible IMHO.

    Let's assume 570/700 (even number makes it easier to calculate percentile from histogram, and this would be the rounded 99th percentile composite) and see how she compares with more specific groups. For women (Figure 16) her verbal is still around 99th, but her math is about 85th. For blacks (Figure 18) her verbal becomes 99.9th and her math around 95th.

    I share your curiosity.

    • Replies: @vhrm
  56. Anon[131] • Disclaimer says:

    But “black” is as much a social construct as it is a matter of genetic heritage: I have two black parents and call myself black. So does Barack Obama, who has one white parent. So does Kamala Harris, a U.S. senator from California, who has one parent from India. The category of “black” is fluid, as are other racial and ethnic categories—and geneticists agree that we are more different from each other as individuals, than we are as populations grouped by “race.”

    This is untrue. The social definition of White has always closely adhered to the one drop rule. One discernible “drop” of non-white genetics has long traditionally conveyed non-White status. This is sill the case, regardless of the mental masturbation of the media priesthood.

    Alternately stated, being White has generally been defined by more by what it isn’t more than by what it is. Which is why most quality “trailer trash” are still and will always be vastly more White than Barack: accounting for both genetics and behavior.

    Non-whites frequently don’t grasp the long-standing one drop rule. To the point that it often seems to constitute a type of racial dysmorphia. To wit, I once had a half Pakistani, half White acquaintance, who looked like a young Iron Sheik, tell me that he was White. We aren’t friends now, and so I still sometimes relish the moment of the look on his face when my younger self couldn’t hide the look of reflexive disbelief on my face.

    Black is what one gets when they mix all of the colors together. A White surface rejects those colors, as a matter of its continued existence, and reflects them back to their source.

  57. res says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Good point. She might be a good resource for some thoughtful commentary in this area. Here is her contributor page at Education Week:
    https://www.edweek.org/ew/contributors/christina.samuels.html

    She does seem to be something of a true believer in general though:
    Poverty, Not Race, Fuels the Achievement Gap
    https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2019/10/02/poverty-not-race-fuels-the-achievement-gap.html

    I guess she doesn’t read the JBHE (The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education):
    http://www.jbhe.com/latest/index012209_p.html

    P.S. The study she links in that poverty article has a fun disclaimer:
    https://edopportunity.org/papers/wp19-06-v092019.pdf

    Our models are not intended to provide unbiased causal estimates of the effect of segregation on achievement gaps, as we do not have a clearly exogenous source of variation in segregation with which to identify the effect. School segregation may be correlated with features of communities that lead to large achievement gaps by the time children enter kindergarten; if this is the case the observed association of school segregation and achievement gaps may be provide a biased estimate of the causal effect of segregation. However, we reason that if school segregation affects achievement gaps, we would expect to observe several patterns in the data: 1) school segregation should be positively associated with achievement gaps, after controlling for between-group differences in family background and neighborhood segregation; 2) school segregation should be associated not just with the size of the achievement gap but also with its growth as children progress through school. We examine these associations at multiple levels of geography (i.e. districts, counties, metropolitan areas) and for different group comparisons (i.e. white-black and, white-Hispanic). Evidence that these conditions hold strongly suggests, but not prove, that segregation affects achievement gaps. Given the extent of racial and economic school segregation, knowing if and how segregation affects achievement gaps has broad and important implications for education policy.

    Another fun excerpt:

    Moreover, in saying that test score gaps reflect differences in opportunities, we also mean that they are not the result of innate group differences in cognitive skills or other genetic endowments. While differences in two individual children’s academic performance may reflect both individual differences and differences in educational opportunities, differences in average scores should be understood as reflecting opportunity gaps, given that there are not between-group average differences in genetic endowments or innate academic ability (Nisbett, Aronson, Blair, Dickens, Flynn, Halpern and Turkheimer, 2012; Nisbett 2009; Nisbett 1998).

    That Nisbett guy must be quite the expert on group differences to be the source of all of her references ; )
    Here is the 2012 reference for anyone interested:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22963427

  58. res says:
    @Anon

    I think this means that blacks and whites tend to live in different school districts or in neighborhoods that result in their kids’ going to different schools. But if you only have an education degree, it’s important to use a lot of obfuscatory jargon in your papers if you want tenure.

    Mostly. It looks like they developed a number of different metrics and determined which are best.
    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.0081-1750.2004.00150.x

    I am more than a little suspicious that “best” will turn out to be “gave the answers they wanted”, but am not motivated to dig further. If anyone else has the fortitude, please report back.

  59. I am not aware of any education writer, Left or Right, famous or obscure, who will publicly cite the number one cause of the gap: I.Q. To my knowledge, identifying I.Q. has been banned. It is an unword.

    According to Richard Herrnstein, in I.Q. in the Meritocracy (1968), I.Q. is 81% genetic.

    That doesn’t mean that parents, siblings, relatives and neighborhoods aren’t factors, as well, but they are secondary factors.

    Also, the author misuses the word “equity.”

    Mental testing was never developed, in order to foster “equity,” which as used by the racist Left today means equal results. One motivation was to help slow kids. Another was in order to give poor but brilliant kids, like the Jews who came to dominate CCNY and then Harvard, a chance to compete with rich kids.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  60. res says:
    @Jack D

    I know you are joking Jack, but if admixture were the only factor we would be looking at an average African IQ around 80. Ballpark numbers might be 20% average white admixture giving something like 0.2 * 100 + 0.8 * 81 = 85 (rounded 84.8)

  61. @Anon

    a smart kid will one way or another get ahold of books, whatever the home situation is

    Possible, perhaps probable, by no means certain. Early childhood is an especially important time for conditioning, which is why culture matters. Intellectual potential has to be formed and nurtured, not all cultures do that.

    a dumb kid will ignore books if they are not shoved down his throat, and if shoved down his throat, any effect will fade out within two years

    Maybe, but reading a book is also training to read and comprehend, analyze and critique, and this methodical knowledge is valuable even for non-readers.

    • Replies: @Anon
  62. Poco says:
    @bigdicknick

    These lefty woke ass-wipes have been running the system for decades now, and claim at the same time that it’s biased because of evil white supremacy. Time to kick them out of the system.

    • Agree: Nicholas Stix
  63. Jack D says:
    @Enemy of Earth

    and there were always books and magazines around the house.

    Even that is overrated. Growing up, there were few of either in my house (at least not in English) that we actually owned. But they took me to the library a lot. By the time I was in high school I got a few magazine subscriptions but to this day I don’t see the value of owning books for myself (other than reference works). I read a novel and I am done with it. It’s just more clutter after that.

  64. Jack D says:
    @Nicholas Stix

    IQ testing was largely developed by the military which needed a way to sort the cannon fodder from those who could be trained for more high level killing tasks.

    https://www.officialasvab.com/history_res.htm

    During WWII, my late FIL (who later became an engineer and a corporate president but at the time was just a poor ghetto boy) scored very high on his AGCT and the chaplain of his unit (apparently the only other person who could read without moving his lips so they became friends despite the fact that one was a Christian minister and the other was an atheist of Jewish background) offered to get him into officer candidate school but my FIL knew the life expectancy of 2nd lieutenants and he declined.

  65. J.Ross says:
    @Enemy of Earth

    I try to give good educational, factual books with bite-sized readings as gifts to related children, following George MacDonald Fraser’s claim that his real education came from irregularly nibbling an excellent children’s encyclopedia set. Of course a children’s encyclopedia in Fraser’s childhood would today be seen as interchangeable with Mein Kampf. I settled on the earliest edition of Hirsch’s First Dictionary of Cultural Literacy (which came out in the early 90s and is reasonably unwoke for today) but I hope to find a cheap multi-volume set which would be anything like what Fraser had, giving greater depth.
    This appears to have been a widely accepted practice in the past: I have a dictionary from the thirties which has numerous charts, graphs, full-color illustrations, brief articles (or at least, entries a bit long for a dictionary), drawings, photographs, technical schematics, flag arrays and historical timelines, so that evenings spent with this one book would basically educate an underschooled person as well as anything else.

    • Agree: JMcG
  66. @Forbes

    The ESSA might make it easier to create unqualified teachers, but there’s been no sign of it yet. New York hasn’t dumbed down anything to do with subject matter knowledge.

  67. nebulafox says:
    @Anon

    >Short of the feral child raised by wolves situation, a smart kid will one way or another get ahold of books, whatever the home situation is, and a dumb kid will ignore books if they are not shoved down his throat, and if shoved down his throat, any effect will fade out within two years.

    Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. The smart kid might get a hold on books, but he usually won’t learn or use his intelligence properly if not trained when not sufficiently mature, and the converse is true as well.

    Practice does make you smarter. It doesn’t override biology, like the blank-slatists would have it. If taken to extremes that all that matters is effort, it can downright nasty: there’s this one Chinese former prodigy doing genetics research who is determined to conclusively prove the role of biology in intelligence specifically to stop parents from ruining their kids lives in the conviction that with enough practice, they can become Gauss or Beethoven. But practice does have a role in making you less dumb, no matter what your biological range is. We have an attitude that there’s no point to seriously understanding mathematics if you can’t be a superstar at it, and it is utterly toxic for the future of the United States. This does matter more than people think. It is a massive quality of life difference to have daily tasks performed by people with IQs of 100 or 105 over 80 or 85, if you are starting out from a base level of 90.

    Your parents and your state can’t play God and dictate your genetics (and I hope we don’t get to the point that they can!) but they can play a role in ensuring you’d do 15, 20% better than you normally would. And if done on a society-wide level, it can make a massive difference in your nation’s fate.

  68. Anonymous[608] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    Jack D – that being true then one can give the answer that the gap is due to the gap in IQ test scores between the races. Let them mull over what causes those different test scores.

  69. “the black-white achievement gap”

    As usual, the whole thing than be explained by Mister Oscar Wilde….

    “The rage of Caliban at seeing his own face in a looking glass.”

  70. @Anon

    It’s also not clear that BHO got into Columbia College. I’d bet money that he got into Columbia’s General Studies, which is much different. The only evidence for BHO’s smarts is his ability to read a teleprompter well.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
  71. Mokiki says:
    @Lockean Proviso

    How about “person of little pigmentation”?

  72. Slimer says:

    The test score gap between “rich” and poor blacks, like the one between rich and poor whites, is actually bigger than the gap between blacks and whites. So it follows that the gap between blacks and whites is largely (if not entirely) a consequence of wealth differences between the races. The whole bit about “high income” blacks scoring worse than poor whites ignores the reality that “high income” blacks typically live in low income neighborhoods and have much less wealth (income – expenses) than poor whites. But who cares about facts? It’s probably our natural inclination to search for tribal advantages over groups that we perceive to be hostile towards our own, as believing in such advantage gives us a sense of security.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    , @res
  73. The whole bit about “high income” blacks scoring worse than poor whites ignores the reality that “high income” blacks typically live in low income neighborhoods and have much less wealth (income – expenses) than poor whites. But who cares about facts?

    That’s speculation, not facts.

    It’s probably our natural inclination to search for tribal advantages over groups that we perceive to be hostile towards our own, as believing in such advantage gives us a sense of security.

    It’s egalitarians that are obsessed with closing the gap. Or do you think that racist Whites are the ones that have supported the billions spent on proposed solutions?

    Yes in the mind of the egalitarian anyone that questions their great effort to equalize everyone must be a wayciss. Nevermind that their great solution called NCLB actually ended up cutting funding for Black schools since both Republicans and Democrats were convinced the gap was artificial.

    I was against NCLB because I knew it would cut funding to poor schools. I was right and the liberals with good intentions and PHds in Education were wrong. I would have increased funding to Black schools but without this bizarre expectation that all groups should do exactly the same. Do we have that expectation in sports? Why not?

    • Replies: @Alfa158
  74. One more addition which is that the gap is worse than depicted.

    They have methods for skewing the data even if it is regulated.

    I’m not going to discuss them here.

    I don’t really care for either side and I don’t want to encourage any liberal principal or teacher that is unaware of the tactics.

  75. vhrm says:
    @res

    Thanks for working that out. My statement was just at the hunch level. Since you show that 700-730V / 570M fits what she literally wrote there’s much less reason to doubt it’s what she meant, even if it’s a little strange to report V+M and M instead of all three or just total or just components.

    (also thanks for linking that Dorans paper. I remember reading through it some years ago for some reason. It’s surprising how much fidelity SAT verbal had on the top end by the end. That recentering (and some of the other changes shortly after it) were definitely a blow to IQ enthusiasts… )

  76. NOTA says:
    @J1234

    Even that answer is more acceptable than the more accurate one.

    Darwin.

    • Replies: @Anti-HBD
  77. NOTA says:
    @Twinkie

    She’s writing under her own name in a publication where the genetic explanation of racial IQ differences is roughly as socially acceptable as getting a “666” tattoo on your forehead, and she’s still playing fair with the facts. That’s better than like 99% of people manage on this topic.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
  78. NOTA says:
    @vhrm

    I think in NYC, Asians are much poorer than whites on average, yet do much better on magnet entrance exams. Richer whites outperforming poorer blacks looks like it might be environmental; richer whites being outperformed by poorer Asians probably looks more plausibly genetic.

    • Replies: @vhrm
  79. Anon[286] • Disclaimer says:
    @GoRedWings!

    @nebulafox

    These results are from twin and adoption studies, as well as all those Head Start studies. You and I can think and overthink and pontificate and theorize all we want about what is going on inside the black box, but we know what is coming out of the black box, and it’s as I characterized it: smart kids reflect their birth parents and are not affected by their adoptive parents at all; and force-fed Head Starters fade after two years. And you can add to this the results that teacher quality does not affect kids: smart kids survive and thrive despite crappy teachers and dumb kids are forever dumb, even with award winning teachers.

    It’s discouraging and creepy and it makes us feel like deterministic automatons. It takes some of the joy and pain out of parenting.

    But it is true, for better or worse.

    • Replies: @black sea
  80. vhrm says:
    @NOTA

    Yeah, i guess that if you don’t know about existence of studies that (attempt to) correct for those things and the history of failed interventions (which many of the respondents probably don’t) then it makes sense.

    Or it could be the rank of significance in the view of the respondent e.g. it’s the top-factor in case “a” but only third in case “b”.

    (it’s a rare opinion survey (or diagnostic questionnaire)
    i make it through answering where i’m not frustrated by the ambiguity of the questions and answer choices. )

  81. anarchyst says:

    It was just as bad in the 1960s. In fact, Detroit’s Northeastern High School had a “black students union” that was successful in getting the American flag removed from the front of the school and replacing it with a “black nationalist” flag.

    The ordeal that us white students had to go through was harrowing, to say the least. White students did not use the restrooms, as a “beatdown” by multiple blacks was usually the result.

    Blacks never fought one-on-one, the “pack mentality” was evident then as is today.

    Any attempts by whites to defend themselves was met with indifference, and even outright hostility from school officials. You see, even then, blacks were not “responsible” for their behavior.

    Blacks did not want to learn, the same situation that still exists today. Even then, blacks were disruptive. Most of the teachers just shrugged their shoulders, let the disruptions go on until the next class period.

    Teachers were deferential to blacks, although there were a few teachers who tried to carefully shield their white and asian students from predatory blacks, giving them additional attention and coursework, knowing that they could excel in spite of the, violent, raucous atmosphere.

    Anywhere blacks go, they destroy…

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
  82. Alfa158 says:
    @John Johnson

    The whole bit about “high income” blacks scoring worse than poor whites ignores the reality that “high income” blacks typically live in low income neighborhoods and have much less wealth (income – expenses) than poor whites.

    I give Slimer credit for the rhetorical agility he demonstrates in working two baseless howlers into a single sentence.

  83. black sea says:
    @Anon

    teacher quality does not affect kids: smart kids survive and thrive despite crappy teachers and dumb kids are forever dumb, even with award winning teachers.

    You have a point, but this dramatically overstates the case. There’s not that much that a talented teacher can do with dim kids, true enough. As far as smart kids surviving, even cows survive; thriving is another matter.

  84. @NOTA

    Right, it’s a good article.

  85. Art Deco says:
    @Jim Don Bob

    See Wm. Dyer on this subject. The distribution of honors at Harvard Law School is through blindly graded examinations. He did well there. He just wasn’t interested in law (or, really, much else).

  86. @Slimer

    “The whole bit about ‘high income’ blacks scoring worse than poor whites ignores the reality that ‘high income’ blacks typically live in low income neighborhoods and have much less wealth (income – expenses) than poor whites.”

    You’re kidding, right? You just wanted to see if anyone was paying attention.

  87. @anarchyst

    That’s why we must have racially integrated schools!

  88. res says:
    @Slimer

    The whole bit about “high income” blacks scoring worse than poor whites ignores the reality that “high income” blacks typically live in low income neighborhoods and have much less wealth (income – expenses) than poor whites.

    The wealth difference (overall, and I think at equal incomes) is well established. I have yet to see a thorough study trying to break down the causes of that and their relative importance though (see below though, I think I found one). Some possibilities.
    – Differences in saving/investing volume and effectiveness.
    – Differences in overall work history (e.g. duration of the high income).
    – Differences in spending habits.
    – Differences in family support and inheritances.

    The high income blacks in low income neighborhoods idea really needs a citation though. For those who care about facts, anyway.

    BTW, living in a low income neighborhood should tend to reduce expenses both directly and by reducing the need to “keep up with the Joneses.”

    Do you have a cite for a study showing high income blacks have less wealth than low income whites? Depending on what “high” and “low” mean that is possible, but it would be better to have real data.

    But who cares about facts?

    Very few who try to pretend there is no test score gap OR it is purely environmental in origin. And providing references is a good sign of who truly cares about facts. You might compare our comments in that respect.

    P.S. I looked around a bit and this seems like a pretty good study indicating the current wealth gap is mostly due to income differences:
    https://www.citylab.com/equity/2019/03/racial-wealth-gap-income-inequality-black-white-households/585325/
    More at
    https://www.clevelandfed.org/newsroom-and-events/publications/economic-commentary/2019-economic-commentaries/ec-201903-what-is-behind-the-persistence-of-the-racial-wealth-gap.aspx
    https://web.archive.org/web/20190405152704/http://dionissialiprantis.com/pdfs/dynamics_RWG_07_27.pdf

  89. Anti-HBD says:

    Given that what you call “blacks” have the highest genetic diversity and also the way mutational load is distributed across human populations, why can they not have the highest IQ?

    Where is the genetic evidence that “whites” have higher IQ than “blacks”?

    Are there any papers that show differential selection pressures in African and European populations? Or that there has been enough isolation to make possible that such differences might exist even due to only soft polygenic selection or drift (unlikely as that would be for other reasons)?

    Lots of psychology but not enough genetics in my opinion.

    As for who is to blame for the gap: social processes and factors imo.

    • Replies: @res
  90. Anti-HBD says:
    @NOTA

    Seems you have not read enough about how selection and drift (latter term being from the Neutral theory of molecular evolution-much after Darwin) work.

  91. res says:
    @Anti-HBD

    Given that what you call “blacks” have the highest genetic diversity and also the way mutational load is distributed across human populations, why can they not have the highest IQ?

    Because they don’t observationally? But keep looking. You will be a hero if you find an exception.

    And who says pigs can’t fly anyway. Can you prove that?

    Where is the genetic evidence that “whites” have higher IQ than “blacks”?

    Piffer’s work looking at EDU PGS scores is one piece:
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/332076417_Evidence_for_Recent_Polygenic_Selection_on_Educational_Attainment_and_Intelligence_Inferred_from_Gwas_Hits_A_Replication_of_Previous_Findings_Using_Recent_Data

    And another from admixture analysis:
    Global Ancestry and Cognitive Ability
    https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/?p=7995
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/global-ancestry-and-cognitive-ability/

    And here is evidence that Jews have an average genetic IQ higher than that of whites:
    FAQ for Dunkel et al 2019 Ashkenazim polygenic score for intelligence
    https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/?p=7680

    Are there any papers that show differential selection pressures in African and European populations?

    Yes. Here is one looking at multiple traits for European, Asian, and African populations.
    Detecting polygenic adaptation in admixture graphs
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/146043v1

    Or that there has been enough isolation to make possible that such differences might exist even due to only soft polygenic selection or drift (unlikely as that would be for other reasons)?

    How exactly does “soft polygenic selection” differ from plain old selection?

    Does the question of selection or drift really matter here? What we care about is that there are phenotypic differences which appear to have a genetic component. And are you honestly trying to claim that intelligence is not selected for given the trend in hominid brain size over the last few million years?
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3385680/

    Lots of psychology but not enough genetics in my opinion.

    As opposed to the genetic arguments you brought to this conversation? But feel free to cite another Templeton paper which proves…something or other. Or invoke your sacred “gene flow” or “isolation by distance” answers to everything.

    As for who is to blame for the gap: social processes and factors imo.

    Just keep telling yourself that is all there is. That’s likely part of the issue, but based on the evidence above (both this comment and the rest of the thread) probably not all.

    P.S. I think we have covered this in multiple threads in James Thompson’s blog. Please stop with the playing dumb schtick.

    • Replies: @Anti-HBD
    , @Anti-HBD
  92. Anti-HBD says:
    @res

    Because they don’t observationally? But keep looking. You will be a hero if you find an exception.

    Why do you think that what you observe socially is tied to genetic factors?

    You often mention health disparities for example being due to genetics (I am not sure if it was you or one of the other commenters on the Thompson thread) when social factors can indeed better explain them:
    https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev-publhealth-040119-094017

    [MORE]

    And who says pigs can’t fly anyway. Can you prove that?

    Be serious. I cite a paper for every thing I say, there is nothing that prevents human populations to differ on genotypic IQ, there is just not good evidence they do by race.

    Piffer’s work looking at EDU PGS scores is one piece

    Once again, Piffer did not control for population stratification or even false positives.

    Global Ancestry and Cognitive Ability

    I will read this one more in depth and get back to you.

    And here is evidence that Jews have an average genetic IQ higher than that of whites:
    FAQ for Dunkel et al 2019 Ashkenazim polygenic score for intelligence

    https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/eh9tq/

    “We demonstrate instead–and perhaps counterintuitively–that the difference between Jewish and non-Jewish polygenic scores are much too large for their analysis to offer any evidentiary value for this conclusion. Instead, the data show clear evidence of the problems with comparing polygenic scores across ethnic groups that others have noted.”

    How exactly does “soft polygenic selection” differ from plain old selection?

    It is harder to detect and distinguish for drift. However, if it has taken place then it is the only way I can think of that the hereditarian hypothesis is correct.
    In fact, it is what Emil et al are looking for.
    I only meant that there is no evidence for hard selection like for lighter skin color in Europeans, which would also make some amount of gene flow irrelevant.

    Does the question of selection or drift really matter here

    Well yes. In the absence of selection we would not expect big differences in IQ genes between human populations. See this paper for example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4516610/

    Researchers in many fields have considered the meaning of two results about genetic variation for
    concepts of “race.” First, at most genetic loci, apportionments of human genetic diversity find that
    worldwide populations are genetically similar. Second, when multiple genetic loci are examined, it
    is possible to distinguish people with ancestry from different geographical regions. These two
    results raise an important question about human phenotypic diversity: To what extent do
    populations typically differ on phenotypes determined by multiple genetic loci? It might be
    expected that such phenotypes follow the pattern of similarity observed at individual loci.
    Alternatively, because they have a multilocus genetic architecture, they might follow the pattern of
    greater differentiation suggested by multilocus ancestry inference. To address the question, we
    extend a well-known classification model of Edwards (2003) by adding a selectively neutral
    quantitative trait. Using the extended model, we show, in line with previous work in quantitative
    genetics, that regardless of how many genetic loci influence the trait, one neutral trait is
    approximately as informative about ancestry as a single genetic locus. The results support the
    relevance of single-locus genetic-diversity partitioning for predictions about phenotypic diversity

    And are you honestly trying to claim that intelligence is not selected for given the trend in hominid brain size over the last few million years?

    You are right. There has been selection for intelligence etc over the last few million years.
    My objection is that it has not been different in people of European descent (whatever that means) and African descent.

    . Or invoke your sacred “gene flow” or “isolation by distance” answers to everything.

    Gene flow spreads variants around. How can you not know this? It also counteracts drift.
    Papers that show isolation contra Templeton’s analysis would convince me more than just saying it is irrelevant. Did you test that cophenetic correlation you were talking about?

    And just so you know, I have no issue admitting I am wrong on something. For example, one of the papers I posted about recent gene flow between Europeans and East Asians apparently was not accurate due to the groups included in the analysis.

    “isolation by distance”

    Do you not get how that creates false positives in association analyses like those for height and many other traits?
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/659235v2
    (If you have limited time, the above paper is of particular significance to the issue)

    P.S. I think we have covered this in multiple threads in James Thompson’s blog. Please stop with the playing dumb schtick.

    Not really. I have not seen any quantitative points that rebut my arguments.

  93. Anti-HBD says:
    @res

    Oh and regarding continuous clines and PCAs that you asked me a while back:
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/423632v2

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