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Who Has a Higher Average IQ: Black Men or Black Women?
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A reader writes:

Hi Steve —

I figured if anyone knows this, it’s probably you. Has anyone reported on mean IQs by sex among Black adults? Is it more or less the same, as it is among whites? I’ve done a little bit of checking and haven’t been able to find anything. But surely the results are well known among psychometricians?

Thanks in advance.

What’s an easy to use source from the 21st Century?

 
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  1. Should be men but it’ll be the women on paper because they actually mostly follow the directions of the test. External check: income and ability to get hired and levels of responsibility.

    • Replies: @Jokah Macpherson
    @J.Ross

    I like this as a first comment so I'm going to use it as a starting point.

    My gut feeling is that sex differences in IQ are similar regardless of race, but this plays out differently when the mean is towards the left end of the curve than when it's more or less in the center. I think that due to lack of variance, way more black women are smart enough to manage to fall in line with society's expectations and make a go of it whereas larger swaths of black men are close to the point of no hope where lack of intelligence and the need to keep it real just make things impossible.

    I've had black bosses, both male and female, for half of my 15 year career, and I respected both of them. I mean, they weren't Jokah Macpherson-level geniuses, but who is these days, and at any rate they were competent in their jobs. And just as with the patterns among white people I've worked with, the male one was more exceptional in terms of outside-the-box-ideas while the female one was a grind who adhered to the rules religiously.

  2. Whatโ€™s an easy to use source from the 21st Century?

    I know (a relevant) one from the 20th. Ring Lardner.

    “Shut up,” he explained.

    • LOL: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    @Polistra

    From "You know me, Al."

    , @ScarletNumber
    @Polistra

    Lardner's son was a communist who won the Oscar for writing M*A*S*H

  3. I heard — a long time ago — from a PhD in Ed Psych that black women had higher IQ’s than black men.

    • Replies: @TWS
    @Colin Wright

    The IQs of mixed kids would tend to support this. The difference isn't small.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  4. An extension to the OP’s question is โ€” ‘what are the best peer-reviewed sources/citations for IQ by race and sex?’.

    I frequently use this citation (below) for addressing IQ differences by race but it does not address the OP’s by race *and* sex question.

    Assertion w/ citation: American blacks in the aggregate score โ‰ƒ1.1 standard deviations LOWER than non-blacks on IQ/g-loaded standardized tests[1].

    Ref.

    [1] “… ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ ๐˜ข ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ๐˜ท๐˜ช๐˜ฆ๐˜ธ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ง ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ถ๐˜ญ๐˜ต๐˜ด ๐˜ฐ๐˜ง ๐˜ข ๐˜ต๐˜ฐ๐˜ต๐˜ข๐˜ญ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ง 6,246,729 ๐˜ฑ๐˜ข๐˜ณ๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ค๐˜ช๐˜ฑ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ต๐˜ด ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ ๐˜ต๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ต๐˜ด ๐˜ฐ๐˜ง ๐˜ค๐˜ฐ๐˜จ๐˜ฏ๐˜ช๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ท๐˜ฆ ๐˜ข๐˜ฃ๐˜ช๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ต๐˜บ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ ๐˜ข๐˜ฑ๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ต๐˜ถ๐˜ฅ๐˜ฆ, ๐˜ง๐˜ฐ๐˜ถ๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜ข ๐˜ฅ๐˜ช๐˜ง๐˜ง๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ๐˜ฏ๐˜ค๐˜ฆ ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ ๐˜ฎ๐˜ฆ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ ๐˜ด๐˜ค๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ๐˜ด ๐˜ฃ๐˜ฆ๐˜ต๐˜ธ๐˜ฆ๐˜ฆ๐˜ฏ ๐˜ฃ๐˜ญ๐˜ข๐˜ค๐˜ฌ ๐˜ฑ๐˜ฆ๐˜ฐ๐˜ฑ๐˜ญ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜ธ๐˜ฉ๐˜ช๐˜ต๐˜ฆ ๐˜ฑ๐˜ฆ๐˜ฐ๐˜ฑ๐˜ญ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ง 1.1 ๐˜š๐˜‹. ๐˜Š๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ๐˜ด๐˜ช๐˜ด๐˜ต๐˜ฆ๐˜ฏ๐˜ต ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ถ๐˜ญ๐˜ต๐˜ด ๐˜ธ๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ง๐˜ฐ๐˜ถ๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜ง๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ ๐˜ค๐˜ฐ๐˜ญ๐˜ญ๐˜ฆ๐˜จ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜ถ๐˜ฏ๐˜ช๐˜ท๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ๐˜ด๐˜ช๐˜ต๐˜บ ๐˜ข๐˜ฑ๐˜ฑ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ค๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ ๐˜ต๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ต๐˜ด ๐˜ด๐˜ถ๐˜ค๐˜ฉ ๐˜ข๐˜ด ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ฆ ๐˜š๐˜ค๐˜ฉ๐˜ฐ๐˜ญ๐˜ข๐˜ด๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ค ๐˜ˆ๐˜ฑ๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ต๐˜ถ๐˜ฅ๐˜ฆ ๐˜›๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ต (๐˜• = 2.4 ๐˜ฎ๐˜ช๐˜ญ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ) ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜Ž๐˜ณ๐˜ข๐˜ฅ๐˜ถ๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ฆ ๐˜™๐˜ฆ๐˜ค๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ฅ ๐˜Œ๐˜น๐˜ข๐˜ฎ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ (๐˜• = 2.3 ๐˜ฎ๐˜ช๐˜ญ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ), ๐˜ข๐˜ด ๐˜ธ๐˜ฆ๐˜ญ๐˜ญ ๐˜ข๐˜ด ๐˜ง๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ ๐˜ต๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ต๐˜ด ๐˜ฐ๐˜ง ๐˜ซ๐˜ฐ๐˜ฃ ๐˜ข๐˜ฑ๐˜ฑ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ค๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ต๐˜ด ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ ๐˜ค๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ฑ๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ฆ ๐˜ด๐˜ฆ๐˜ต๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜จ๐˜ด (๐˜• = 0.5 ๐˜ฎ๐˜ช๐˜ญ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ) ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ฎ๐˜ช๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ต๐˜ข๐˜ณ๐˜บ (๐˜• = 0.4 ๐˜ฎ๐˜ช๐˜ญ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ)”; Roth, PL; Bevier, CA; Bobko, P; Switzer, FS, III; Tyler, P (2001). “Ethnic group differences in cognitive ability in employment and educational settings: A metaanalysis”. Personnel Psychology. 54 (2): 297โ€“330. ; https://archive.is/n1N4c; note that Google Scholar reports that Roth et al., referenced has 450 citations โ€” https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=7997680543049338550&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0,5&hl=en

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Thurston

    I've used Roth a lot, but nothing on sex differences. And it's 20 years old by now.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Thurston

  5. Clearly it’s black women. They put Americans in space.

    • Replies: @Reg Cรฆsar
    @Buzz Mohawk


    Clearly itโ€™s black women. They put Americans in space.

     

    Now if they'd only put space between themselves and Americans.

    For a real (OT) laugh, read about the Kangaroo Pub in the "Pavilions" section of the 1992 Expo Seville article on Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seville_Expo_%2792#Pavilions

    http://ericellis.com/archive/spain4.htm


    https://www.wiley.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Project-KangarooPub-FrontView.jpg

    Replies: @Andrew Callinan

    , @anonymousperson
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Actually it was Nazi scientists.

  6. Black girls definitely outscore black boys on IQ tests. Tom Sowell has written about this.

    Information about adult scores is pretty scarce even among whites though. You can’t force large numbers of them to take IQ tests.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @thinklikea1l

    They are of course responsible for rearing the thugs who are the scourge of our once great cities.

    Chicago Detroit Baltimore etc


    People are nauseated by the cloying celebration of these negligent incompetents.

  7. Larry Summers lost his job after pointing out that the standard deviation is higher for men than women. Something that occurred to me: since IQ is also correlated with lifespan, the earlier deaths of the lowest IQ men could shift the male distribution upward at later ages. Of course, average male & female lifespan isn’t equal, as women live longer.

    • Replies: @Feryl
    @TGGP

    Along those same lines, older people are going to be more responsible due in no small part to so many Darwin award winners being liquidated in their youth and early adulthood.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

  8. Whoa. This is a pretty brutal diss to Black! non-binaries.

  9. Anonymous[329] • Disclaimer says:

    Jensen (1971) found that black girls score 3 IQ points higher than black boys, and white boys 1.5 IQ points higher than white girls. He, nevertheless, concluded that this did not support his Race. ร— Sex ร— Ability interaction theory. Jensen (1998) further analyzed data, some from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth (NLSY79), and suggested that there is no sex difference in general intelligence, g. Other studies have questioned Jensen’s null sex difference theory. The present study tested both theories with data from the ensuring NLSY97 survey, which represents the 15. + million 12-17. year old adolescents living in the US in 1997.Total sample analyses confirmed the existence of significant inverse white-black IQ sex differences, and disconfirmed the null sex difference theory.Separate race-age analyses demonstrated, however, that robust IQ sex differences materialize only after age 16, with no white-black interaction. At age 17, female IQ trails male by 3.6-7.03 points in three races, respectively.Classical IQ probability curves foretell that more males than females will enter the highest echelons of society, irrespective of race, and white Male/Female ratios at IQ 145 successfully predicted real-life sex differences in educational and occupational achievement. White males with IQ 55 can be expected to run a very high risk of encountering severe achievement problems, a risk shared to some extent with Hispanic male, but black females with this low IQ can be expected to perform worse than black males.The paper finally proposed models to account for the origin of sex and race differences in IQ and related educational and occupational differences, involving gene copy numbers, brain size, and steroid hormones. It was suggested that the evolutionary background and physiological nature of sex and race differences explain why social engineering fails to eradicate them.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281601876_Sex_differences_across_different_racial_ability_levels_Theories_of_origin_and_societal_consequences

    the sex difference in IQ is nil.

    https://arthurjensen.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Race-and-Sex-Differences-in-Head-Size-and-IQ-1994-by-Arthur-Robert-Jensen-Fred-W.-Johnson.pdf

  10. I figured if anyone knows this, itโ€™s probably you. Has anyone reported on mean IQs by sex among Black adults? Is it more or less the same, as it is among whites? Iโ€™ve done a little bit of checking and havenโ€™t been able to find anything. But surely the results are well known among psychometricians?

    Define “more or less”? Doubt IQ is “more or less” the same between white men and women, unless you just mean “close enough” compared to racial gaps.

    Women mature earlier and the most comprehensive measures we have are school tests. But men continue to mature physically on into their late teens and sometimes early 20s. Like most of the commenters here, I did quite well on the SAT, at 16, but was sharper–i think faster/smarter, not just more knowledgeable–as a college student. (Now, of course, i’m getting dumber each year … though i’m quite a bit “wiser”.)

    (Make me put up a M over F number, i’d say 3 IQ pts. Verbal–less, perhaps even. Math–more. Spatial–even more.)

    I would expect adult black men to have slightly higher IQs if you could measure them biologically. But blacks are so non-compliant and under minoritarianism the “screw you whitey” thing is so much a part of being black, that on any sort of white IQ test, where staying in school and doing at least some work would pay off, the much, the much higher compliance of black women relative to black men (not a high bar) would enable black women to do better on the tests.

    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @Jokah Macpherson
    @AnotherDad

    I agree with your last paragraph. You worded it better than I could in my comment below. Basically, black men face a combination of less margin for error than a person with a mean around 100 would have and a culture that drives them towards making dumb decisions.

    , @Polistra
    @AnotherDad


    I did quite well on the SAT, at 16, but was sharperโ€“i think faster/smarter, not just more knowledgeableโ€“as a college student.
     
    One of several reasons the GRE was more fun than the SAT was.

    I presume this may also be true of the MCAT, LSAT, etc but IDK personally.
  11. @Polistra

    Whatโ€™s an easy to use source from the 21st Century?
     
    I know (a relevant) one from the 20th. Ring Lardner.

    "Shut up," he explained.
     

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @ScarletNumber

    From “You know me, Al.”

  12. A reader writes:

    Ah, the memories… iSteve.com in the early Aughts!

    • Agree: wren
  13. @J.Ross
    Should be men but it'll be the women on paper because they actually mostly follow the directions of the test. External check: income and ability to get hired and levels of responsibility.

    Replies: @Jokah Macpherson

    I like this as a first comment so I’m going to use it as a starting point.

    My gut feeling is that sex differences in IQ are similar regardless of race, but this plays out differently when the mean is towards the left end of the curve than when it’s more or less in the center. I think that due to lack of variance, way more black women are smart enough to manage to fall in line with society’s expectations and make a go of it whereas larger swaths of black men are close to the point of no hope where lack of intelligence and the need to keep it real just make things impossible.

    I’ve had black bosses, both male and female, for half of my 15 year career, and I respected both of them. I mean, they weren’t Jokah Macpherson-level geniuses, but who is these days, and at any rate they were competent in their jobs. And just as with the patterns among white people I’ve worked with, the male one was more exceptional in terms of outside-the-box-ideas while the female one was a grind who adhered to the rules religiously.

  14. Who can jump higher, an 800 pound man or an 800 pound woman?

    • Replies: @James O'Meara
    @zenmanvolcano

    I was trying to think of some response like that. All I could come up with is "What city has the tallest building, Omaha or Des Moines?"

    , @Jonathan Mason
    @zenmanvolcano

    They are equal. Because neither of them can get off the ground.

  15. @AnotherDad

    I figured if anyone knows this, itโ€™s probably you. Has anyone reported on mean IQs by sex among Black adults? Is it more or less the same, as it is among whites? Iโ€™ve done a little bit of checking and havenโ€™t been able to find anything. But surely the results are well known among psychometricians?
     
    Define "more or less"? Doubt IQ is "more or less" the same between white men and women, unless you just mean "close enough" compared to racial gaps.

    Women mature earlier and the most comprehensive measures we have are school tests. But men continue to mature physically on into their late teens and sometimes early 20s. Like most of the commenters here, I did quite well on the SAT, at 16, but was sharper--i think faster/smarter, not just more knowledgeable--as a college student. (Now, of course, i'm getting dumber each year ... though i'm quite a bit "wiser".)

    (Make me put up a M over F number, i'd say 3 IQ pts. Verbal--less, perhaps even. Math--more. Spatial--even more.)

    I would expect adult black men to have slightly higher IQs if you could measure them biologically. But blacks are so non-compliant and under minoritarianism the "screw you whitey" thing is so much a part of being black, that on any sort of white IQ test, where staying in school and doing at least some work would pay off, the much, the much higher compliance of black women relative to black men (not a high bar) would enable black women to do better on the tests.

    Replies: @Jokah Macpherson, @Polistra

    I agree with your last paragraph. You worded it better than I could in my comment below. Basically, black men face a combination of less margin for error than a person with a mean around 100 would have and a culture that drives them towards making dumb decisions.

  16. @AnotherDad

    I figured if anyone knows this, itโ€™s probably you. Has anyone reported on mean IQs by sex among Black adults? Is it more or less the same, as it is among whites? Iโ€™ve done a little bit of checking and havenโ€™t been able to find anything. But surely the results are well known among psychometricians?
     
    Define "more or less"? Doubt IQ is "more or less" the same between white men and women, unless you just mean "close enough" compared to racial gaps.

    Women mature earlier and the most comprehensive measures we have are school tests. But men continue to mature physically on into their late teens and sometimes early 20s. Like most of the commenters here, I did quite well on the SAT, at 16, but was sharper--i think faster/smarter, not just more knowledgeable--as a college student. (Now, of course, i'm getting dumber each year ... though i'm quite a bit "wiser".)

    (Make me put up a M over F number, i'd say 3 IQ pts. Verbal--less, perhaps even. Math--more. Spatial--even more.)

    I would expect adult black men to have slightly higher IQs if you could measure them biologically. But blacks are so non-compliant and under minoritarianism the "screw you whitey" thing is so much a part of being black, that on any sort of white IQ test, where staying in school and doing at least some work would pay off, the much, the much higher compliance of black women relative to black men (not a high bar) would enable black women to do better on the tests.

    Replies: @Jokah Macpherson, @Polistra

    I did quite well on the SAT, at 16, but was sharperโ€“i think faster/smarter, not just more knowledgeableโ€“as a college student.

    One of several reasons the GRE was more fun than the SAT was.

    I presume this may also be true of the MCAT, LSAT, etc but IDK personally.

  17. This site doesn’t provide IQ scores for male vs female, but educational attainment seems to tip the balance toward females.

    https://blackdemographics.com/

    • Replies: @Neuday
    @tertius


    . . . educational attainment seems to tip the balance toward females.
     
    Modern "educational attainment" is acquired by the ability to conform, and females are proven conformers.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    , @ScarletNumber
    @tertius

    Well yes, we all know that, but that isn't a measure of pure intellectual horsepower.

  18. I don’t know about Clarence Thomas’s IQ, but he has really earned my respect.

    I hope he stays healthy.

    If you are truly smart Justice Thomas, you will want to watch out for your pillows.

    • Replies: @very old statistician
    @wren

    Thomas and Alito are both approximately half a deviation smarter than Scalia, based on their expressed understanding of the problems which they are asked to solve.

    That being said, the last time there was a really really good super-high-IQ technician on the Supreme Court was, sad to say, before anyone less than 100 years old here and now in "2021" went to law school, which means there is no point to my trying to explain here (where the audience includes very few 100 year olds who went to law school) what happens when someone who is super smart winds up, against all odds, on the Supreme Court of the United States. (Hint - he was sort of bored with his job).

    Replies: @wren, @Hypnotoad666, @Rich

  19. Slightly higher for black women according to the 1974 Race by J Baker. Genes are tagged for whether they came from mother or father, with big implications for the most important nine month’s of ones life, which is before one is born. The Minnesota biracial study data apparently suggests being born to a white mother is a big advantage; I am not sure whether biracial black women score higher than the men.

    • Replies: @no jack london
    @Sean

    Anecdotal evidence in remote Native Alaskan villages reveal a contrary result. When a trapper once passed thru, stayed awhile, and partook of local female hospitality the off-spring is the star of the northern sky.

  20. As others have observed, it really doesn’t matter whether black men or black women have higher IQs… black men and women are on average going to be far less likely to engage in productive labor. There is no inherent connection between engaging in labor which enhances the wealth of the community and personal desires.

  21. @wren
    I don't know about Clarence Thomas's IQ, but he has really earned my respect.

    I hope he stays healthy.

    If you are truly smart Justice Thomas, you will want to watch out for your pillows.

    Replies: @very old statistician

    Thomas and Alito are both approximately half a deviation smarter than Scalia, based on their expressed understanding of the problems which they are asked to solve.

    That being said, the last time there was a really really good super-high-IQ technician on the Supreme Court was, sad to say, before anyone less than 100 years old here and now in “2021” went to law school, which means there is no point to my trying to explain here (where the audience includes very few 100 year olds who went to law school) what happens when someone who is super smart winds up, against all odds, on the Supreme Court of the United States. (Hint – he was sort of bored with his job).

    • Thanks: wren
    • Replies: @wren
    @very old statistician

    I'm not smart enough to figure that out right now.

    Thanks for a diversion to look into however.

    Perhaps if I figure it out you can provide me with the odds that Biden would suddenly find all those hundreds of thousands of votes in those swing state cities after they stopped counting in the middle of the night when Trump was so far ahead.

    Or the odds that covid would happen to very coincidentally break out right next to the one lab in all of china that was studying (and engineering) a remarkably similar virus to the one that has taken over the world. But not actually be from that lab?

    What are the odds?

    Replies: @very old statistician, @Hypnotoad666, @Jonathan Mason

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @very old statistician

    Is it Cardozo you have in mind? He did his really seminal work on the New York Court of Appeal when that was where the nation's legal and commercial action was centered. The Supreme Court was sort of his swan song.

    Replies: @very old statistician

    , @Rich
    @very old statistician

    How did you decide Thomas was smarter than Scalia? Do you mean his clerks were smarter than Scalia's clerks? Thomas has always been a mediocre mind, advanced solely because of affirmative action. In a normal world he'd be working traffic court in Atlanta.

    Replies: @wren, @very old statistician

  22. @Buzz Mohawk
    Clearly it's black women. They put Americans in space.

    Replies: @Reg Cรฆsar, @anonymousperson

    Clearly itโ€™s black women. They put Americans in space.

    Now if they’d only put space between themselves and Americans.

    For a real (OT) laugh, read about the Kangaroo Pub in the “Pavilions” section of the 1992 Expo Seville article on Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seville_Expo_%2792#Pavilions

    http://ericellis.com/archive/spain4.htm

    • Replies: @Andrew Callinan
    @Reg Cรฆsar

    G'day Reg!
    I checked out the link; rather interesting and quite strange.
    I remember Expo 88 in Brisbane (my home town). There's a few things I remember; the chowder in the USA Pavillion (which was the highlight of the whole deal) and Chris Bailey's acoustic show outside, including his version of "Amsterdam". A rather disheveled Brisbane boy.
    All up? I'd say a good time was had by most. Don't know about the Brisbane contingent in Sevilla though...
    A

  23. Why are you endlessly obsessed with IQs of Blacks and other races; you are an insecure, self-loathing, ugly white motherfucker with a massively-deformed neck. What a toxic, embittered and rageful existence you lead. There is a reason you are relegated to the subterranean fringes of Internet “journalism.” You have nothing to contribute to the betterment or improvement of humankind. Who would want to be in your ugly skin — you lead a horribly unhappy, joyless, angry life and you know this to be true. Pity on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • LOL: 3g4me, Rich
    • Troll: Cato, SafeNow
    • Replies: @Reg Cรฆsar
    @youareaspreaderofhate

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81-PkyqrRYL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

    , @J.Ross
    @youareaspreaderofhate

    ... wait, the trannies are evaluating necks now?

    , @ic1000
    @youareaspreaderofhate

    > endlessly obsessed, insecure, self-loathing, ugly white motherfucker, massively-deformed, toxic, embittered, rageful, ugly skin, horribly unhappy, joyless, angry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    How interesting that you feel this way. Please tell me more.

    , @Known Fact
    @youareaspreaderofhate


    you are an insecure, self-loathing, ugly white motherfucker with a massively-deformed neck.

     

    It's Steve's updated Wiki entry
    , @Neuday
    @youareaspreaderofhate


    Why are you endlessly obsessed with IQs of Blacks and other races; you are an insecure, self-loathing, ugly white motherfucker with a massively-deformed neck. What a toxic, embittered and rageful existence you lead. There is a reason you are relegated to the subterranean fringes of Internet โ€œjournalism.โ€ You have nothing to contribute to the betterment or improvement of humankind. Who would want to be in your ugly skin โ€” you lead a horribly unhappy, joyless, angry life and you know this to be true. Pity on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
    America, why are you endlessly obsessed with raising the IQs of Blacks and other races; you are an insecure, self-loathing, white country with a massively-deformed sense of altruism. What a toxic, embittered and rageful existence you lead. There is a reason you are relegated to the subterranean fringes of debt-based "currency.โ€ You have nothing to show for your attempt toward the betterment or improvement of minorities. Who would want to be in your ugly skin โ€” you lead a horribly unhappy, joyless, angry life and you know this to be true. Pity on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    , @europeasant
    @youareaspreaderofhate

    Now if only they would abolish Affirmative Action.

  24. It would be interesting, since black women are more successful (grading on a curve) career-wise than black men, leading to successful white collar black women having the hypergamous response of “there are no good black men around” and disdaining black men who work with their hands or make less than them.

    Surprisingly, many high-flying black women end up with player/grifter types if only because they seem more alpha to the white collar black woman than the beta black dude who holds down a job and makes no complaints. How Stella got Her Groove Back, indeed.

    But as black women are wont to be the breadwinners in West Africa, and as hiring a black female you knock out two diversity cards rather than just one with a black male, and ask many black females, as single moms, get the sympathy card boost in hiring, black men might pull ahead in the IQ race as those factors wash out.

    • Replies: @Prof. Woland
    @R.G. Camara

    It will be interesting to see how the information age will help or hurt those who are IQ challenged the same way the industrial revolution helped those who were physically challenged. The assumption is that there will be pressure on the less intelligent part of the population and they will be selected against or culled from the population. But the opposite might be true. Computers and AI will make thinking less important for a significant part of the population and they might be able to survive or even thrive based on other attributes. The industrial revolution made it possible for many women to work outside of the home. Prior to that their choice were farming and hunting; something better left to the men. Machines allowed many men to become far more productive in relation to other men who were bigger and stronger. You might be younger and a faster runner but my car is faster than you.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

  25. James Thompson discussed sex differences in a study of Nigerian children: Sex Differences in Intelligence in Nigeria https://www.unz.com/jthompson/sex-differences-in-intelligence-in-nigeria/

    It found a significant difference: a 7 point male advantage at ages 18-19, 5 point advantage overall. Thatโ€™s one African country, may not be representative of American blacks.

  26. @Thurston
    An extension to the OP's question is โ€” 'what are the best peer-reviewed sources/citations for IQ by race and sex?'.

    I frequently use this citation (below) for addressing IQ differences by race but it does not address the OP's by race *and* sex question.

    Assertion w/ citation: American blacks in the aggregate score โ‰ƒ1.1 standard deviations LOWER than non-blacks on IQ/g-loaded standardized tests[1].

    Ref.

    [1] "... ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ ๐˜ข ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ๐˜ท๐˜ช๐˜ฆ๐˜ธ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ง ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ถ๐˜ญ๐˜ต๐˜ด ๐˜ฐ๐˜ง ๐˜ข ๐˜ต๐˜ฐ๐˜ต๐˜ข๐˜ญ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ง 6,246,729 ๐˜ฑ๐˜ข๐˜ณ๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ค๐˜ช๐˜ฑ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ต๐˜ด ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ ๐˜ต๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ต๐˜ด ๐˜ฐ๐˜ง ๐˜ค๐˜ฐ๐˜จ๐˜ฏ๐˜ช๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ท๐˜ฆ ๐˜ข๐˜ฃ๐˜ช๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ต๐˜บ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ ๐˜ข๐˜ฑ๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ต๐˜ถ๐˜ฅ๐˜ฆ, ๐˜ง๐˜ฐ๐˜ถ๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜ข ๐˜ฅ๐˜ช๐˜ง๐˜ง๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ๐˜ฏ๐˜ค๐˜ฆ ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ ๐˜ฎ๐˜ฆ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ ๐˜ด๐˜ค๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ๐˜ด ๐˜ฃ๐˜ฆ๐˜ต๐˜ธ๐˜ฆ๐˜ฆ๐˜ฏ ๐˜ฃ๐˜ญ๐˜ข๐˜ค๐˜ฌ ๐˜ฑ๐˜ฆ๐˜ฐ๐˜ฑ๐˜ญ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜ธ๐˜ฉ๐˜ช๐˜ต๐˜ฆ ๐˜ฑ๐˜ฆ๐˜ฐ๐˜ฑ๐˜ญ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ฐ๐˜ง 1.1 ๐˜š๐˜‹. ๐˜Š๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ๐˜ด๐˜ช๐˜ด๐˜ต๐˜ฆ๐˜ฏ๐˜ต ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ถ๐˜ญ๐˜ต๐˜ด ๐˜ธ๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ง๐˜ฐ๐˜ถ๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜ง๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ ๐˜ค๐˜ฐ๐˜ญ๐˜ญ๐˜ฆ๐˜จ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜ถ๐˜ฏ๐˜ช๐˜ท๐˜ฆ๐˜ณ๐˜ด๐˜ช๐˜ต๐˜บ ๐˜ข๐˜ฑ๐˜ฑ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ค๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ ๐˜ต๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ต๐˜ด ๐˜ด๐˜ถ๐˜ค๐˜ฉ ๐˜ข๐˜ด ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ฆ ๐˜š๐˜ค๐˜ฉ๐˜ฐ๐˜ญ๐˜ข๐˜ด๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ค ๐˜ˆ๐˜ฑ๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ต๐˜ถ๐˜ฅ๐˜ฆ ๐˜›๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ต (๐˜• = 2.4 ๐˜ฎ๐˜ช๐˜ญ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ) ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜Ž๐˜ณ๐˜ข๐˜ฅ๐˜ถ๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ฆ ๐˜™๐˜ฆ๐˜ค๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ฅ ๐˜Œ๐˜น๐˜ข๐˜ฎ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ (๐˜• = 2.3 ๐˜ฎ๐˜ช๐˜ญ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ), ๐˜ข๐˜ด ๐˜ธ๐˜ฆ๐˜ญ๐˜ญ ๐˜ข๐˜ด ๐˜ง๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ ๐˜ต๐˜ฆ๐˜ด๐˜ต๐˜ด ๐˜ฐ๐˜ง ๐˜ซ๐˜ฐ๐˜ฃ ๐˜ข๐˜ฑ๐˜ฑ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ค๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ต๐˜ด ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ ๐˜ค๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ฑ๐˜ฐ๐˜ณ๐˜ข๐˜ต๐˜ฆ ๐˜ด๐˜ฆ๐˜ต๐˜ต๐˜ช๐˜ฏ๐˜จ๐˜ด (๐˜• = 0.5 ๐˜ฎ๐˜ช๐˜ญ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ) ๐˜ข๐˜ฏ๐˜ฅ ๐˜ช๐˜ฏ ๐˜ต๐˜ฉ๐˜ฆ ๐˜ฎ๐˜ช๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ต๐˜ข๐˜ณ๐˜บ (๐˜• = 0.4 ๐˜ฎ๐˜ช๐˜ญ๐˜ญ๐˜ช๐˜ฐ๐˜ฏ)"; Roth, PL; Bevier, CA; Bobko, P; Switzer, FS, III; Tyler, P (2001). "Ethnic group differences in cognitive ability in employment and educational settings: A metaanalysis". Personnel Psychology. 54 (2): 297โ€“330. ; https://archive.is/n1N4c; note that Google Scholar reports that Roth et al., referenced has 450 citations โ€” https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=7997680543049338550&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0,5&hl=en

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I’ve used Roth a lot, but nothing on sex differences. And it’s 20 years old by now.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @Steve Sailer

    Maybe ask Razib.

    , @Thurston
    @Steve Sailer

    Can you, or anyone else, suggest a more recent citation than Roth et al.?

  27. As an evolutionary anthropologist, I believe…. just kidding.
    As a nobody in pajamas, I believe that what is relevant is what tasks men vs. women performed back in Africa, for thousands of years. My guess is that antelope-hunting logistics were more cognitively challenging than was staying home rearing the toddlers. Or was it the reverse?…was antelope-hunting mainly mechanical, and mostly patient waiting? Either way, I think maybe the answer lies here. (It does not seem to lie anywhere else.)

  28. Handsome, bold black men, of the under and working and lower-middle classes, aspire to become heroes of the street. Only the timid and ugly go to college. But most black women choose the path of plodding through courses toward some career where they can be comfortable. So taking IQ in college would be sample selection bias.

  29. I’d suspect any small difference would reflect differences in behavior rather than in actual intelligence; more black boys than black girls are going to ostentatiously act out and refuse to even attempt to answer the questions correctly.

    …if that hypothesis is valid, then the difference would be nil for, say, five year olds, but appear more clearly in adolescence.

  30. Pulled this from somewhere else on the internet: “Why do black men do worse on IQ tests relative to black women? I would start there. I first came across this fact in a piece by Thomas Sowell: โ€œStudies had shown that females predominated among high-IQ blacks. One study of blacks whose IQs were 140 and up found that there were more than five times as many females as males at these levelsโ€ (quote from https://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2002/10/01/race-and-iq-n1000028). Those numbers sound quite extraordinary. Among whites, the standard of deviation in IQ is higher among males than females, and they have about the same average. Black males do not have a higher standard of deviation than black females. How much lower is the average IQ of black men compared to black women? Steve Sailer, using data provided by Charles Murray from the militaryโ€™s AFQT, says about 2.4 points, compared to 0.8 points among whites (see https://isteve.blogspot.com/2005/12/do-black-women-have-higher-iqs-than.html).”

    • Replies: @ginger bread man
    @Jim Johnsen

    https://www.nytimes.com/1977/03/27/archives/new-light-on-black-iq.html
    Sowell in the NYT:


    ...black females consistently score higher on mental tests than do black males. This has been true for decades and for a variety of mental tests. Among highโ€I.Q. individuals in the general population, the sexes are almost equally represented (with a slight male advantage), but the persistent female advantage among blacks becomes even more pro nounced at the higher I.Q. levels. Studies of black children with I.Q.'s of 120 and above have found from three to five times as many girls as boys at these levels
     
    Black is not capitalized
  31. I wonder what IQ means, today. In old health textbooks from the 1970s, there were descriptions of the kinds of tasks that people could do according to ranges of IQ. Unskilled workers needing full supervision were lt 95. Semi-skilled workers needing some supervision were 95 – 105. Skilled workers needing little supervision were 105 – 110. Teachers and police were 110 – 115. Managers and independent businessmen were in the 115 – 125 range. Medical doctors were gt 125. Hard science PhDs were gt 130.

  32. @very old statistician
    @wren

    Thomas and Alito are both approximately half a deviation smarter than Scalia, based on their expressed understanding of the problems which they are asked to solve.

    That being said, the last time there was a really really good super-high-IQ technician on the Supreme Court was, sad to say, before anyone less than 100 years old here and now in "2021" went to law school, which means there is no point to my trying to explain here (where the audience includes very few 100 year olds who went to law school) what happens when someone who is super smart winds up, against all odds, on the Supreme Court of the United States. (Hint - he was sort of bored with his job).

    Replies: @wren, @Hypnotoad666, @Rich

    I’m not smart enough to figure that out right now.

    Thanks for a diversion to look into however.

    Perhaps if I figure it out you can provide me with the odds that Biden would suddenly find all those hundreds of thousands of votes in those swing state cities after they stopped counting in the middle of the night when Trump was so far ahead.

    Or the odds that covid would happen to very coincidentally break out right next to the one lab in all of china that was studying (and engineering) a remarkably similar virus to the one that has taken over the world. But not actually be from that lab?

    What are the odds?

    • LOL: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @very old statistician
    @wren

    For some reason I am staying up late tonight.

    I vaguely remember watching a movie with Jimmy Cagney in it. Cagney is playing the tough guy who is in over his head, and he asks "what are the odds" in one of those black and white night clubs they used to film old mobster movies in, and one of the older mobsters looks at him the way you look at a wet puppy and says "depends who the odd makers are, doesn't it".

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @wren


    the odds that Biden would suddenly find all those hundreds of thousands of votes in those swing state cities after they stopped counting in the middle of the night when Trump was so far ahead.
     
    The odds were 100%, I reckon.
    , @Jonathan Mason
    @wren

    Should they have continued counting votes all night?

    I would have thought the odds of smuggling in thousands of ballot papers, all of them in favor of Biden, into vote counting centers during the small hours of the morning in different locations in different states, without being detected and without anybody involved in the fraud of the century squealing would be infinitesimal.

    But anyway the proof is in the pudding. I will accept that there was massive vote fraud when credible witnesses come forward and explain how it was done and by whom, but not based on theories drawn up by actuaries based on probability theory.

    I appreciate that in the past there probably was voting fraud on a massive scale, but it seems to me that in the modern age of computerized record keeping it is actually much less likely.

    What the USA really needs is a voting system based on social security numbers, so that anybody who is over the age of 18 and has a social security number can cast one vote in any location, but will automatically be excluded from casting another vote in any other location. This would still not be perfect, but would create a more equitable system.

    Of course you will always have a few dubious errors, like somebody will mail in a vote and then die before election day, but in a two-party system these will probably balance out.

    As things stand it seems like nobody, even including many senators, is ever going to accept the result of any national election again if a large percentage of the population agrees that the current system is so easy to defraud as to be meaningless.

    For a democratic electoral system to work with just two parties, it is necessary that after each election almost half the population accepts that the party they opposed won, otherwise the whole system collapses.

    The main thing about democracy is that if a government is hated by enough people, then it can be removed. Dictatorship maybe a more efficient and effective form of government, but it invites revolution.

    Replies: @ic1000, @wren

  33. @zenmanvolcano
    Who can jump higher, an 800 pound man or an 800 pound woman?

    Replies: @James O'Meara, @Jonathan Mason

    I was trying to think of some response like that. All I could come up with is “What city has the tallest building, Omaha or Des Moines?”

  34. @TGGP
    Larry Summers lost his job after pointing out that the standard deviation is higher for men than women. Something that occurred to me: since IQ is also correlated with lifespan, the earlier deaths of the lowest IQ men could shift the male distribution upward at later ages. Of course, average male & female lifespan isn't equal, as women live longer.

    Replies: @Feryl

    Along those same lines, older people are going to be more responsible due in no small part to so many Darwin award winners being liquidated in their youth and early adulthood.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Feryl

    More responsible, or more careful?

    A fair number of attractive, fertile, young women fall for bad boys who eventually, ostensibly, lose the Darwin competition and die young. Those "irresponsible" men, however, reproduce as a result of the female attraction to them, and so the foolishness carries on... parallel to what the safe boys and girls are producing together.

    The species needs this, though. It needs boys who will jump motorcycles over cars, because some of them become test pilots.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

  35. “Whatโ€™s an easy to use source from the 21st Century?”

    An unemployment application?

  36. @Feryl
    @TGGP

    Along those same lines, older people are going to be more responsible due in no small part to so many Darwin award winners being liquidated in their youth and early adulthood.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    More responsible, or more careful?

    A fair number of attractive, fertile, young women fall for bad boys who eventually, ostensibly, lose the Darwin competition and die young. Those “irresponsible” men, however, reproduce as a result of the female attraction to them, and so the foolishness carries on… parallel to what the safe boys and girls are producing together.

    The species needs this, though. It needs boys who will jump motorcycles over cars, because some of them become test pilots.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Buzz Mohawk

    There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.

  37. @youareaspreaderofhate
    Why are you endlessly obsessed with IQs of Blacks and other races; you are an insecure, self-loathing, ugly white motherfucker with a massively-deformed neck. What a toxic, embittered and rageful existence you lead. There is a reason you are relegated to the subterranean fringes of Internet "journalism." You have nothing to contribute to the betterment or improvement of humankind. Who would want to be in your ugly skin -- you lead a horribly unhappy, joyless, angry life and you know this to be true. Pity on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Replies: @Reg Cรฆsar, @J.Ross, @ic1000, @Known Fact, @Neuday, @europeasant

  38. @wren
    @very old statistician

    I'm not smart enough to figure that out right now.

    Thanks for a diversion to look into however.

    Perhaps if I figure it out you can provide me with the odds that Biden would suddenly find all those hundreds of thousands of votes in those swing state cities after they stopped counting in the middle of the night when Trump was so far ahead.

    Or the odds that covid would happen to very coincidentally break out right next to the one lab in all of china that was studying (and engineering) a remarkably similar virus to the one that has taken over the world. But not actually be from that lab?

    What are the odds?

    Replies: @very old statistician, @Hypnotoad666, @Jonathan Mason

    For some reason I am staying up late tonight.

    I vaguely remember watching a movie with Jimmy Cagney in it. Cagney is playing the tough guy who is in over his head, and he asks “what are the odds” in one of those black and white night clubs they used to film old mobster movies in, and one of the older mobsters looks at him the way you look at a wet puppy and says “depends who the odd makers are, doesn’t it”.

  39. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Feryl

    More responsible, or more careful?

    A fair number of attractive, fertile, young women fall for bad boys who eventually, ostensibly, lose the Darwin competition and die young. Those "irresponsible" men, however, reproduce as a result of the female attraction to them, and so the foolishness carries on... parallel to what the safe boys and girls are producing together.

    The species needs this, though. It needs boys who will jump motorcycles over cars, because some of them become test pilots.

    Replies: @Stan Adams

    There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.

  40. @very old statistician
    @wren

    Thomas and Alito are both approximately half a deviation smarter than Scalia, based on their expressed understanding of the problems which they are asked to solve.

    That being said, the last time there was a really really good super-high-IQ technician on the Supreme Court was, sad to say, before anyone less than 100 years old here and now in "2021" went to law school, which means there is no point to my trying to explain here (where the audience includes very few 100 year olds who went to law school) what happens when someone who is super smart winds up, against all odds, on the Supreme Court of the United States. (Hint - he was sort of bored with his job).

    Replies: @wren, @Hypnotoad666, @Rich

    Is it Cardozo you have in mind? He did his really seminal work on the New York Court of Appeal when that was where the nation’s legal and commercial action was centered. The Supreme Court was sort of his swan song.

    • Replies: @very old statistician
    @Hypnotoad666

    definitely not Holmes or Brandeis, probably not Hugo Black.

    Actually, I was thinking of Learned Hand, who was never on the Supreme Court. Don't know enough about Cardozo to know if I would have been right if he was who I was thinking about.

    But .... I find it really hard to respect a guy who had his pick of hot women and who was heterosexual and who never got married and who was not like a saint. I get it if a really smart guy does not get married if he does not have his pick of hot women, but I don't get it when they are celibate for no good reason .... hope you don't think I am eccentric for thinking that

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Paperback Writer

  41. @wren
    @very old statistician

    I'm not smart enough to figure that out right now.

    Thanks for a diversion to look into however.

    Perhaps if I figure it out you can provide me with the odds that Biden would suddenly find all those hundreds of thousands of votes in those swing state cities after they stopped counting in the middle of the night when Trump was so far ahead.

    Or the odds that covid would happen to very coincidentally break out right next to the one lab in all of china that was studying (and engineering) a remarkably similar virus to the one that has taken over the world. But not actually be from that lab?

    What are the odds?

    Replies: @very old statistician, @Hypnotoad666, @Jonathan Mason

    the odds that Biden would suddenly find all those hundreds of thousands of votes in those swing state cities after they stopped counting in the middle of the night when Trump was so far ahead.

    The odds were 100%, I reckon.

  42. @Hypnotoad666
    @very old statistician

    Is it Cardozo you have in mind? He did his really seminal work on the New York Court of Appeal when that was where the nation's legal and commercial action was centered. The Supreme Court was sort of his swan song.

    Replies: @very old statistician

    definitely not Holmes or Brandeis, probably not Hugo Black.

    Actually, I was thinking of Learned Hand, who was never on the Supreme Court. Don’t know enough about Cardozo to know if I would have been right if he was who I was thinking about.

    But …. I find it really hard to respect a guy who had his pick of hot women and who was heterosexual and who never got married and who was not like a saint. I get it if a really smart guy does not get married if he does not have his pick of hot women, but I don’t get it when they are celibate for no good reason …. hope you don’t think I am eccentric for thinking that

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    @very old statistician

    I don't think you're eccentric but I think you're very culture bound. Surely you've picked up from reading sites like this that only 1/3 of the men who have ever lived have passed their genes onto future generations. Universal marriage for men is culturally rare. The US, being a nice Protestant society, is WEIRD.

    , @Paperback Writer
    @very old statistician

    PS Learned Hand was married, at least, according to Wikipedia.

  43. Women because blacks have a matriarchy

  44. As long as we’re talking about sex, here’s a Semitic answer to Robin DiAngelo, with a blurb by Ibram X YesWeKendi:

    So, as a MENA, is she white, off-white, or “of color”? Is she included in her target?

    • Replies: @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    @Reg Cรฆsar

    "Women & Children First welcomes RUBY HAMAD in conversation with LISA BENSON".
    Lisa Benson the editorial cartoonist? Here's a letter I wrote to her (and have not received a reply to):

    Dear Lisa Benson:

    The first cartoon of yours that I have ever seen appears in the February 17, 2021 Buffalo News. Here it is:

    https://www.arcamax.com/politics/editorialcartoons/lisabenson/s-2481616

    It shows a giant gravestone engraved with NURSING HOME DEATHS, on top of which is a podium labeled GOV. CUOMO, behind which stands a man saying "WHAT COVER-UP?". Near the podium are a broom and eight rugs.

    I understand the symbolism of the rugs and broom: that Governor Andrew Cuomo of New York is covering up unpleasant information by "sweeping it under the rug".

    But you have not drawn a recognizable image of Andrew Cuomo. Instead, you have given him a slouching posture, wavy hair, a thick drooping lower lip, and a dusky skin tone. There is probably a clever idea behind this, but I am too dim-witted to figure it out. Asking you to explain your drawing is like asking a comedian to explain a joke, but what point were you making by giving Cuomo such Negroid features?

  45. @youareaspreaderofhate
    Why are you endlessly obsessed with IQs of Blacks and other races; you are an insecure, self-loathing, ugly white motherfucker with a massively-deformed neck. What a toxic, embittered and rageful existence you lead. There is a reason you are relegated to the subterranean fringes of Internet "journalism." You have nothing to contribute to the betterment or improvement of humankind. Who would want to be in your ugly skin -- you lead a horribly unhappy, joyless, angry life and you know this to be true. Pity on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Replies: @Reg Cรฆsar, @J.Ross, @ic1000, @Known Fact, @Neuday, @europeasant

    … wait, the trannies are evaluating necks now?

  46. @youareaspreaderofhate
    Why are you endlessly obsessed with IQs of Blacks and other races; you are an insecure, self-loathing, ugly white motherfucker with a massively-deformed neck. What a toxic, embittered and rageful existence you lead. There is a reason you are relegated to the subterranean fringes of Internet "journalism." You have nothing to contribute to the betterment or improvement of humankind. Who would want to be in your ugly skin -- you lead a horribly unhappy, joyless, angry life and you know this to be true. Pity on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Replies: @Reg Cรฆsar, @J.Ross, @ic1000, @Known Fact, @Neuday, @europeasant

    > endlessly obsessed, insecure, self-loathing, ugly white motherfucker, massively-deformed, toxic, embittered, rageful, ugly skin, horribly unhappy, joyless, angry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    How interesting that you feel this way. Please tell me more.

  47. @Reg Cรฆsar
    @Buzz Mohawk


    Clearly itโ€™s black women. They put Americans in space.

     

    Now if they'd only put space between themselves and Americans.

    For a real (OT) laugh, read about the Kangaroo Pub in the "Pavilions" section of the 1992 Expo Seville article on Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seville_Expo_%2792#Pavilions

    http://ericellis.com/archive/spain4.htm


    https://www.wiley.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Project-KangarooPub-FrontView.jpg

    Replies: @Andrew Callinan

    G’day Reg!
    I checked out the link; rather interesting and quite strange.
    I remember Expo 88 in Brisbane (my home town). There’s a few things I remember; the chowder in the USA Pavillion (which was the highlight of the whole deal) and Chris Bailey’s acoustic show outside, including his version of “Amsterdam”. A rather disheveled Brisbane boy.
    All up? I’d say a good time was had by most. Don’t know about the Brisbane contingent in Sevilla though…
    A

  48. I hope these direct links work. PIAAC scores by race and sex.

    Numeracy:

    https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/ideuspiaac/report.aspx?p=1-LNP-1-20173-PVNUM-GENDERR,RACETHN4CAT-USH-MN_MN,SD_SD-1_Y_J-0-0-37&Lang=1033

    Literacy:

    https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/ideuspiaac/report.aspx?p=1-LNP-1-20173-PVLIT-GENDERR,RACETHN4CAT-USH-MN_MN,SD_SD-1_Y_J-0-0-37&Lang=1033

    Basically, maybe a slight advantage in literacy for black women over black men, but the male advantage in numeracy among blacks is about the same as it is among other races.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Maven

    Thanks.

  49. Just an anecdote from a person who works for a large engineering company. I see more black male nerds than black female nerds (hardware nerds and software nerds). My guess is black women are more proficient with language (especially when shaking their head from side-to-side).

  50. @Reg Cรฆsar
    As long as we're talking about sex, here's a Semitic answer to Robin DiAngelo, with a blurb by Ibram X YesWeKendi:


    https://www.womenandchildrenfirst.com/sites/womenandchildrenfirst.com/files/White%20tears.png

    So, as a MENA, is she white, off-white, or "of color"? Is she included in her target?

    Replies: @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    “Women & Children First welcomes RUBY HAMAD in conversation with LISA BENSON”.
    Lisa Benson the editorial cartoonist? Here’s a letter I wrote to her (and have not received a reply to):

    Dear Lisa Benson:

    The first cartoon of yours that I have ever seen appears in the February 17, 2021 Buffalo News. Here it is:

    https://www.arcamax.com/politics/editorialcartoons/lisabenson/s-2481616

    It shows a giant gravestone engraved with NURSING HOME DEATHS, on top of which is a podium labeled GOV. CUOMO, behind which stands a man saying “WHAT COVER-UP?”. Near the podium are a broom and eight rugs.

    I understand the symbolism of the rugs and broom: that Governor Andrew Cuomo of New York is covering up unpleasant information by “sweeping it under the rug”.

    But you have not drawn a recognizable image of Andrew Cuomo. Instead, you have given him a slouching posture, wavy hair, a thick drooping lower lip, and a dusky skin tone. There is probably a clever idea behind this, but I am too dim-witted to figure it out. Asking you to explain your drawing is like asking a comedian to explain a joke, but what point were you making by giving Cuomo such Negroid features?

  51. I figure that most of the IQ difference between Black Mem and Black Women can be chalked off to cultural and environmental differences (one of the few instances where it is indeed nurture over nature). There is a strong anti-intellectual streak in Black culture that more profoundly affects men than women (yo, doing good in school and sheet, you acting white, you ainโ€™t keepin it real). This culture of the anti-intellectual isnโ€™t unique to Blacks. It can also be found among the Hispanics and the Appalachian hillbillies (as I can attest from my in-laws).

  52. @thinklikea1l
    Black girls definitely outscore black boys on IQ tests. Tom Sowell has written about this.

    Information about adult scores is pretty scarce even among whites though. You can't force large numbers of them to take IQ tests.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    They are of course responsible for rearing the thugs who are the scourge of our once great cities.

    Chicago Detroit Baltimore etc

    People are nauseated by the cloying celebration of these negligent incompetents.

  53. Anon[156] • Disclaimer says:

    This is a tough one. Getting an apples to apples sample would be a challenge. Women are fewer in the military data, and probably a non comparable sample to the men. A third of black men are felons, and half of those have been in prison. But they would skew low in intelligence. In secondary school the boys are more infected with avoiding “acting white,” which might affect their scores.

    I think the only way to answer this is to take the approach that pollsters have used and try to build a representative sample based on census data by getting test results from high schools, colleges, prisons, welfare recipients, and every niche of black society, and weigh it to make a single composite score.

  54. I think itโ€™s an interesting question. How does the mean sex difference in IQ apply to blacks vs whites? Is there greater male variability among blacks? Greater quant aptitude in males? I have not seen data on any of these things.

    I imagine the iq sex difference in blacks is small, but black women are much much more likely to succeed professionally than men from what I have seen. Itโ€™s not because they get intellectually demanding jobs, but among white collar jobs, I see way more black women doing budgeting and project coordination type things than I see black men doing anything. Their behavior makes it difficult to hire them.

    Other races are unlike that. You see men and women doing different jobs, but there are plenty of white men doing various kinds of office jobs.

  55. The PIAAC survey of adult skills is good for this purpose. The data can accessed here. I obtained sex difference estimates for the literacy test, the numeracy test and the problem solving test in 16-74-year-olds. I’m too lazy to do formal significance tests, but judging by the standard errors, none of the black sex differences seem to be statistically significant. In whites, males have a significant advantage in numeracy.

    You could combine these results into general mental ability estimates as was done here.

  56. Not sure what the answer is but I know who sprayed Gorilla Glue in her hair.

  57. @tertius
    This site doesn't provide IQ scores for male vs female, but educational attainment seems to tip the balance toward females.

    https://blackdemographics.com/

    Replies: @Neuday, @ScarletNumber

    . . . educational attainment seems to tip the balance toward females.

    Modern “educational attainment” is acquired by the ability to conform, and females are proven conformers.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Neuday

    Modern โ€œeducational attainmentโ€ is acquired by the ability to conform, and females are proven conformers.

    This is a big problem with the social sciences.

    It's completely dominated by overly-altruistic women that are unwilling to question academic authority.

    I saw this right away in Soc 101. Women are far more likely to just nod and assume the people that wrote the books know what they are talking about.

    It's much easier to get an A if you just repeat what you are told and don't question the subject.

    Most of the social science courses are taught by left-wing female profs that resent the (mostly White) males that ask bigger questions that undermine egalitarian assumptions. In fact they orient the freshmen classes to discourage critical thinking and weed out what they call the sticklers.

  58. @youareaspreaderofhate
    Why are you endlessly obsessed with IQs of Blacks and other races; you are an insecure, self-loathing, ugly white motherfucker with a massively-deformed neck. What a toxic, embittered and rageful existence you lead. There is a reason you are relegated to the subterranean fringes of Internet "journalism." You have nothing to contribute to the betterment or improvement of humankind. Who would want to be in your ugly skin -- you lead a horribly unhappy, joyless, angry life and you know this to be true. Pity on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Replies: @Reg Cรฆsar, @J.Ross, @ic1000, @Known Fact, @Neuday, @europeasant

    you are an insecure, self-loathing, ugly white motherfucker with a massively-deformed neck.

    It’s Steve’s updated Wiki entry

    • LOL: Cato
  59. @R.G. Camara
    It would be interesting, since black women are more successful (grading on a curve) career-wise than black men, leading to successful white collar black women having the hypergamous response of "there are no good black men around" and disdaining black men who work with their hands or make less than them.

    Surprisingly, many high-flying black women end up with player/grifter types if only because they seem more alpha to the white collar black woman than the beta black dude who holds down a job and makes no complaints. How Stella got Her Groove Back, indeed.

    But as black women are wont to be the breadwinners in West Africa, and as hiring a black female you knock out two diversity cards rather than just one with a black male, and ask many black females, as single moms, get the sympathy card boost in hiring, black men might pull ahead in the IQ race as those factors wash out.

    Replies: @Prof. Woland

    It will be interesting to see how the information age will help or hurt those who are IQ challenged the same way the industrial revolution helped those who were physically challenged. The assumption is that there will be pressure on the less intelligent part of the population and they will be selected against or culled from the population. But the opposite might be true. Computers and AI will make thinking less important for a significant part of the population and they might be able to survive or even thrive based on other attributes. The industrial revolution made it possible for many women to work outside of the home. Prior to that their choice were farming and hunting; something better left to the men. Machines allowed many men to become far more productive in relation to other men who were bigger and stronger. You might be younger and a faster runner but my car is faster than you.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
    @Prof. Woland

    Good point. But it would require that machines be far more reliable and self-repairing, or at least easier to repair for the average dude.

  60. @Polistra

    Whatโ€™s an easy to use source from the 21st Century?
     
    I know (a relevant) one from the 20th. Ring Lardner.

    "Shut up," he explained.
     

    Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi, @ScarletNumber

    Lardner’s son was a communist who won the Oscar for writing M*A*S*H

  61. @tertius
    This site doesn't provide IQ scores for male vs female, but educational attainment seems to tip the balance toward females.

    https://blackdemographics.com/

    Replies: @Neuday, @ScarletNumber

    Well yes, we all know that, but that isn’t a measure of pure intellectual horsepower.

  62. While we are on this topic, I have another question. We know that male brains are larger than female brains, I believe by more than a standard deviation. But males are also larger. How does cephalization compare for males vs females? Is it the same ratio throughout life? Does it change through puberty?

  63. @youareaspreaderofhate
    Why are you endlessly obsessed with IQs of Blacks and other races; you are an insecure, self-loathing, ugly white motherfucker with a massively-deformed neck. What a toxic, embittered and rageful existence you lead. There is a reason you are relegated to the subterranean fringes of Internet "journalism." You have nothing to contribute to the betterment or improvement of humankind. Who would want to be in your ugly skin -- you lead a horribly unhappy, joyless, angry life and you know this to be true. Pity on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Replies: @Reg Cรฆsar, @J.Ross, @ic1000, @Known Fact, @Neuday, @europeasant

    Why are you endlessly obsessed with IQs of Blacks and other races; you are an insecure, self-loathing, ugly white motherfucker with a massively-deformed neck. What a toxic, embittered and rageful existence you lead. There is a reason you are relegated to the subterranean fringes of Internet โ€œjournalism.โ€ You have nothing to contribute to the betterment or improvement of humankind. Who would want to be in your ugly skin โ€” you lead a horribly unhappy, joyless, angry life and you know this to be true. Pity on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    America, why are you endlessly obsessed with raising the IQs of Blacks and other races; you are an insecure, self-loathing, white country with a massively-deformed sense of altruism. What a toxic, embittered and rageful existence you lead. There is a reason you are relegated to the subterranean fringes of debt-based “currency.โ€ You have nothing to show for your attempt toward the betterment or improvement of minorities. Who would want to be in your ugly skin โ€” you lead a horribly unhappy, joyless, angry life and you know this to be true. Pity on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  64. So I was trying to find an internet source that said 20% of blacks have an IQ below 70. It’s a factoid I remember but don’t know if it’s true. Can anyone help?

  65. Black men on average have testosterone levels 15 to 20% higher than whites. This apparently leads to blacks having double the incidence of prostate cancer in middle age.

    Blacks are also over represented in prisons, many offenses being classified in the common parlance as thinking with the small head rather than the big head, in other words testosterone-related.

    Thus it would not be surprising that the lower testosterone black females show up as scoring high on IQ tests as they tend to be more studious, and many go into white collar rather than blue collar occupations, and obtain their tertiary education in colleges rather than prisons, and are much more likely to be dealing with language and communications on a daily basis in the workplace.

    • Replies: @BCB232
    @Jonathan Mason

    "Black men on average have testosterone levels 15 to 20% higher than whites. This apparently leads to blacks having double the incidence of prostate cancer in middle age."

    I'm not sure this is correct. I believe prostate cancer is associated with DHT, the other major androgen. DHT is also associated with baldness and profuse body hair. It also influences development of male reproductive organs at certain periods (in utero and during puberty).

    Open to correction if I'm wrong.

  66. @very old statistician
    @Hypnotoad666

    definitely not Holmes or Brandeis, probably not Hugo Black.

    Actually, I was thinking of Learned Hand, who was never on the Supreme Court. Don't know enough about Cardozo to know if I would have been right if he was who I was thinking about.

    But .... I find it really hard to respect a guy who had his pick of hot women and who was heterosexual and who never got married and who was not like a saint. I get it if a really smart guy does not get married if he does not have his pick of hot women, but I don't get it when they are celibate for no good reason .... hope you don't think I am eccentric for thinking that

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Paperback Writer

    I don’t think you’re eccentric but I think you’re very culture bound. Surely you’ve picked up from reading sites like this that only 1/3 of the men who have ever lived have passed their genes onto future generations. Universal marriage for men is culturally rare. The US, being a nice Protestant society, is WEIRD.

  67. @Steve Sailer
    @Thurston

    I've used Roth a lot, but nothing on sex differences. And it's 20 years old by now.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Thurston

    Maybe ask Razib.

  68. @very old statistician
    @Hypnotoad666

    definitely not Holmes or Brandeis, probably not Hugo Black.

    Actually, I was thinking of Learned Hand, who was never on the Supreme Court. Don't know enough about Cardozo to know if I would have been right if he was who I was thinking about.

    But .... I find it really hard to respect a guy who had his pick of hot women and who was heterosexual and who never got married and who was not like a saint. I get it if a really smart guy does not get married if he does not have his pick of hot women, but I don't get it when they are celibate for no good reason .... hope you don't think I am eccentric for thinking that

    Replies: @Paperback Writer, @Paperback Writer

    PS Learned Hand was married, at least, according to Wikipedia.

  69. @wren
    @very old statistician

    I'm not smart enough to figure that out right now.

    Thanks for a diversion to look into however.

    Perhaps if I figure it out you can provide me with the odds that Biden would suddenly find all those hundreds of thousands of votes in those swing state cities after they stopped counting in the middle of the night when Trump was so far ahead.

    Or the odds that covid would happen to very coincidentally break out right next to the one lab in all of china that was studying (and engineering) a remarkably similar virus to the one that has taken over the world. But not actually be from that lab?

    What are the odds?

    Replies: @very old statistician, @Hypnotoad666, @Jonathan Mason

    Should they have continued counting votes all night?

    I would have thought the odds of smuggling in thousands of ballot papers, all of them in favor of Biden, into vote counting centers during the small hours of the morning in different locations in different states, without being detected and without anybody involved in the fraud of the century squealing would be infinitesimal.

    But anyway the proof is in the pudding. I will accept that there was massive vote fraud when credible witnesses come forward and explain how it was done and by whom, but not based on theories drawn up by actuaries based on probability theory.

    I appreciate that in the past there probably was voting fraud on a massive scale, but it seems to me that in the modern age of computerized record keeping it is actually much less likely.

    What the USA really needs is a voting system based on social security numbers, so that anybody who is over the age of 18 and has a social security number can cast one vote in any location, but will automatically be excluded from casting another vote in any other location. This would still not be perfect, but would create a more equitable system.

    Of course you will always have a few dubious errors, like somebody will mail in a vote and then die before election day, but in a two-party system these will probably balance out.

    As things stand it seems like nobody, even including many senators, is ever going to accept the result of any national election again if a large percentage of the population agrees that the current system is so easy to defraud as to be meaningless.

    For a democratic electoral system to work with just two parties, it is necessary that after each election almost half the population accepts that the party they opposed won, otherwise the whole system collapses.

    The main thing about democracy is that if a government is hated by enough people, then it can be removed. Dictatorship maybe a more efficient and effective form of government, but it invites revolution.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    @Jonathan Mason

    > I will accept that there was massive vote fraud when credible witnesses come forward and explain how it was done and by whom, but not based on theories drawn up by actuaries based on probability theory.

    Here is a YouTube link to Hima Kolanagireddy's testimony in front of the Michigan House Oversight Committee. She describes what she witnessed as a Republican observer on election night at the vote-counting center in Detroit.

    Since the video is 41 minutes long, drop in and listen at a few points. Is she credible?

    Not being featured on the NBC Nightly News isn't the same as not coming forward.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    , @wren
    @Jonathan Mason


    Should they have continued counting votes all night?
     
    Isn't that how it usually works? Has there ever been a presidential election where they closed the doors and said "We'll get back to you tomorrow about this."? What seems to have happened though is they TOLD Republican observers that they were going home for the night, and then went back and kept counting things. Of course, they didn't let observers close in the first place either, due to "covid" restrictions or just covering up the windows and strong-arming them out.

    I would have thought the odds of smuggling in thousands of ballot papers, all of them in favor of Biden, into vote counting centers during the small hours of the morning in different locations in different states, without being detected and without anybody involved in the fraud of the century squealing would be infinitesimal.

    But anyway the proof is in the pudding. I will accept that there was massive vote fraud when credible witnesses come forward and explain how it was done and by whom, but not based on theories drawn up by actuaries based on probability theory.
     

    There are many credible witnesses describing exactly that. People who were asked to deliver ballots across state lines have come forward and provided signed affidavits. There are videos of mysterious ballot dumps early in the morning that correspond to spikes that went 95% or 100% for biden -- not statistical probability or anything like that.

    I appreciate that in the past there probably was voting fraud on a massive scale, but it seems to me that in the modern age of computerized record keeping it is actually much less likely.
     
    As far as I know, in the one county (Antrim, MI) that did a genuine audit (not by the owners of the machines) the log files had been wiped clean, but they did find that 65% of the votes were sent to "adjudication," meaning that the votes were manually adjusted for some reason. I think an elections officer somewhere in Georgia provided a similar number. Two thirds of the ballots were changed manually from what was entered in the computer.

    What the USA really needs is a voting system based on social security numbers, so that anybody who is over the age of 18 and has a social security number can cast one vote in any location, but will automatically be excluded from casting another vote in any other location. This would still not be perfect, but would create a more equitable system.
     
    That would be a step in the right direction, but most of the voting done is for local or state elections, so that would still leave a lot to be desired.

    As things stand it seems like nobody, even including many senators, is ever going to accept the result of any national election again if a large percentage of the population agrees that the current system is so easy to defraud as to be meaningless.

    For a democratic electoral system to work with just two parties, it is necessary that after each election almost half the population accepts that the party they opposed won, otherwise the whole system collapses.
     

    Agreed, however I think the plan is just to eliminate all the evidence of fraud from the internet and then gaslight people that any questions of the elections integrity are "baseless." Many videos have disappeared. "All your base are belong to us."

    The main thing about democracy is that if a government is hated by enough people, then it can be removed. Dictatorship maybe a more efficient and effective form of government, but it invites revolution.
     
    There is a meme on right-wing sites to the effect that when the ballot box is taken away and the soap box is taken away, all that is left is the ammo box. And it looks like they are coming for that.

    If you have any requests for specific evidence of anything I have said, I can look for it, but I am noticing that the gaslighting is in full force. Fact Check! Snopes! CNN! False Claims of election integrity! seem to be pushed by google right to the top.

    This site seems to be sincerely attempting to archive evidence. There is a lot to consider:

    https://hereistheevidence.com/ Please take a look!

    I know you don't want any of the statistical anomalies, and I won't include them here, but there were a few that convinced me that it wasn't really all the mail-in fraud, it really was in the dominion machines.

  70. @very old statistician
    @wren

    Thomas and Alito are both approximately half a deviation smarter than Scalia, based on their expressed understanding of the problems which they are asked to solve.

    That being said, the last time there was a really really good super-high-IQ technician on the Supreme Court was, sad to say, before anyone less than 100 years old here and now in "2021" went to law school, which means there is no point to my trying to explain here (where the audience includes very few 100 year olds who went to law school) what happens when someone who is super smart winds up, against all odds, on the Supreme Court of the United States. (Hint - he was sort of bored with his job).

    Replies: @wren, @Hypnotoad666, @Rich

    How did you decide Thomas was smarter than Scalia? Do you mean his clerks were smarter than Scalia’s clerks? Thomas has always been a mediocre mind, advanced solely because of affirmative action. In a normal world he’d be working traffic court in Atlanta.

    • Replies: @wren
    @Rich

    Thomas is still alive and Scalia isn't.

    Here's a link to Thomas's dissent.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/22/politics/thomas-dissent-in-pa-election/index.html

    , @very old statistician
    @Rich

    I have read about 50 dissents by Thomas and about 50 by Scalia. Scalia was really really good on obvious constitutional disagreements/controversies (originalism or not, legislative intent or not, balance of powers) - none of which were really difficult topics if you had read the Federalist papers a couple of times, and if your intellectual powers were at about the level of a philosophy professor at a good State U ----Thomas was really really good on Bill of Rights issues, and taught me things about the law when I read his decisions (Scalia only taught me how Scalia thought about things. Alito, one of the few famous people alive today who I consider my intellectual equivalent, or close, is more like Thomas in this respect, thus my assessment that Alito and Thomas are ahead of Scalia on the relevant scale - to be fair there are tens of thousands of non-famous people who I am sure are my intellectual equivalent or better).

    Rehnquist was really at his best on statutory construction at the federal level, he had little interest in 14th amendment jurisprudence, and it showed.

    I have little respect for the other 8 jurisprudes other than Rehnquist on the 1973 court, but Blackmun was an above average tax lawyer (he could easily have been a partner at any good firm), "Whizzer" White was pretty bright for a mediocre intellect, and I could go on and on about the others. But I would not have anything really nice to say about them except they were foolish men who were fairly intelligent.

    Clarence Thomas is much more intelligent than anyone on the Supreme Court in 1973, with the possible exception of Rehnquist, and as the years go by he will be considered one of the two or three greatest legal minds of his generation. Sorry if you think he should be in traffic court. (Although I am happy that you have not, as I have, read thousands of Supreme Court decisions - life is short! ... but had you done so, I guess you would agree with me - trust me)

    Replies: @Rich

  71. @Colin Wright
    I heard -- a long time ago -- from a PhD in Ed Psych that black women had higher IQ's than black men.

    Replies: @TWS

    The IQs of mixed kids would tend to support this. The difference isn’t small.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @TWS

    'The IQs of mixed kids would tend to support this. The difference isnโ€™t small.'

    What is the difference, then?

    Just to define the discussion, I tend to suspect that any difference of five or fewer IQ points is due to cultural factors.

    That's arbitrary -- but it has to be admitted that at some point, my gentile mechanic neighbor is going to say, 'can I have a beer now?' where a Jew is still going to be saying 'gotta do well, gotta do well, gotta do...'

    So tell me black women score nine points higher than black men; I'm impressed. Tell me the difference is two points -- I'll shrug.

    Replies: @TWS

  72. about 2 years ago i crunched the numbers on this exact question from the most recent few years of SAT results, and converted roughly to wechsler.

    the numbers say african boys by almost 2 points. which is actually the smallest difference between boys and girls out of any group, and could be confounded by the big average difference in how studious african girls are versus african boys. lots of african boys never take SAT.

    european boys were over 4 points smarter than european girls, the largest difference of any group. i made a matrix of all the groups of test takers and ordered them by the size of the boy-girl difference, i’ll see if i can find that again. it was mainly due to difference in ability on the math test, but boys were still slightly better on the verbal test sometimes too.

    coincidentally, this is about representative, and is what you would normally observe on a wechsler or ravens, if the tests weren’t fudged to produce boy-girl results to within 1 point around the mean score, which is what the test designers have actually done for decades. the difference is probably even bigger than that, since the tests have been carefully nerfed going back 70 years or more, to remove mechanical aptitude questions and mental rotation of objects questions, where boys were more like 8 points better on average than girls.

    TL/DNR if this were a fitness test they would have taken out bench press, and made all running distances a 10,000 so the results for untrained kids came back pretty similar.

    • Replies: @Spangel12
    @prime noticer

    But arenโ€™t there more female test takers of every race? If thatโ€™s the case, one would expect that the female sample of sat test takers dips further into the left hand side of the bell curve. I doubt the sat is an equally representative sample of both sexes since many more girls than boys have grades which make them viable college applicants.

    Replies: @Spangel12

  73. @youareaspreaderofhate
    Why are you endlessly obsessed with IQs of Blacks and other races; you are an insecure, self-loathing, ugly white motherfucker with a massively-deformed neck. What a toxic, embittered and rageful existence you lead. There is a reason you are relegated to the subterranean fringes of Internet "journalism." You have nothing to contribute to the betterment or improvement of humankind. Who would want to be in your ugly skin -- you lead a horribly unhappy, joyless, angry life and you know this to be true. Pity on you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Replies: @Reg Cรฆsar, @J.Ross, @ic1000, @Known Fact, @Neuday, @europeasant

    Now if only they would abolish Affirmative Action.

    • Agree: Drapetomaniac
  74. Brain size?

    I’ve read that men have larger brain volume, even when scaling for body size. (To do the logical, spatial, strategic and “thingy” stuff men need to do to hunt, defend the tribe and have the opportunity to reproduce.)

    One straightforward hint would be whether that’s true for black men as well. I would suspect that it is.

    ~~~

    That said, i think that when it comes to white metrics/standards, blacks are so far “off the reservation”, that simply female higher compliance (to white norms) gives black women a substantial edge (literacy, years schooling, simply sitting still ass in chair) in taking white IQ tests.

  75. @Jonathan Mason
    Black men on average have testosterone levels 15 to 20% higher than whites. This apparently leads to blacks having double the incidence of prostate cancer in middle age.

    Blacks are also over represented in prisons, many offenses being classified in the common parlance as thinking with the small head rather than the big head, in other words testosterone-related.

    Thus it would not be surprising that the lower testosterone black females show up as scoring high on IQ tests as they tend to be more studious, and many go into white collar rather than blue collar occupations, and obtain their tertiary education in colleges rather than prisons, and are much more likely to be dealing with language and communications on a daily basis in the workplace.

    Replies: @BCB232

    “Black men on average have testosterone levels 15 to 20% higher than whites. This apparently leads to blacks having double the incidence of prostate cancer in middle age.”

    I’m not sure this is correct. I believe prostate cancer is associated with DHT, the other major androgen. DHT is also associated with baldness and profuse body hair. It also influences development of male reproductive organs at certain periods (in utero and during puberty).

    Open to correction if I’m wrong.

  76. I have to go with the men. How dumb do you have to be to have child after child with a loser?

    • LOL: JMcG
  77. @Jonathan Mason
    @wren

    Should they have continued counting votes all night?

    I would have thought the odds of smuggling in thousands of ballot papers, all of them in favor of Biden, into vote counting centers during the small hours of the morning in different locations in different states, without being detected and without anybody involved in the fraud of the century squealing would be infinitesimal.

    But anyway the proof is in the pudding. I will accept that there was massive vote fraud when credible witnesses come forward and explain how it was done and by whom, but not based on theories drawn up by actuaries based on probability theory.

    I appreciate that in the past there probably was voting fraud on a massive scale, but it seems to me that in the modern age of computerized record keeping it is actually much less likely.

    What the USA really needs is a voting system based on social security numbers, so that anybody who is over the age of 18 and has a social security number can cast one vote in any location, but will automatically be excluded from casting another vote in any other location. This would still not be perfect, but would create a more equitable system.

    Of course you will always have a few dubious errors, like somebody will mail in a vote and then die before election day, but in a two-party system these will probably balance out.

    As things stand it seems like nobody, even including many senators, is ever going to accept the result of any national election again if a large percentage of the population agrees that the current system is so easy to defraud as to be meaningless.

    For a democratic electoral system to work with just two parties, it is necessary that after each election almost half the population accepts that the party they opposed won, otherwise the whole system collapses.

    The main thing about democracy is that if a government is hated by enough people, then it can be removed. Dictatorship maybe a more efficient and effective form of government, but it invites revolution.

    Replies: @ic1000, @wren

    > I will accept that there was massive vote fraud when credible witnesses come forward and explain how it was done and by whom, but not based on theories drawn up by actuaries based on probability theory.

    Here is a YouTube link to Hima Kolanagireddy’s testimony in front of the Michigan House Oversight Committee. She describes what she witnessed as a Republican observer on election night at the vote-counting center in Detroit.

    Since the video is 41 minutes long, drop in and listen at a few points. Is she credible?

    Not being featured on the NBC Nightly News isn’t the same as not coming forward.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @ic1000

    Well it's a load of wind baggery. She seems more concerned about promoting herself then explaining how any election fraud took place.

    Basically what she's saying is that sometimes the vote counting machine would jam and that sometimes the operators would enter that ballot manually instead of rerunning it which is apparently what they are supposed to do.

    But she admits that she has no evidence that this tilted the election thousands of votes one way or the other way, or of any organized conspiracy to deliver the election to Biden.

    So no she is not even close to proving that a massive fraud took place.

    Her main point seems to be that she works in IT so she knows how to work voting machines.

    Replies: @ic1000

  78. @ic1000
    @Jonathan Mason

    > I will accept that there was massive vote fraud when credible witnesses come forward and explain how it was done and by whom, but not based on theories drawn up by actuaries based on probability theory.

    Here is a YouTube link to Hima Kolanagireddy's testimony in front of the Michigan House Oversight Committee. She describes what she witnessed as a Republican observer on election night at the vote-counting center in Detroit.

    Since the video is 41 minutes long, drop in and listen at a few points. Is she credible?

    Not being featured on the NBC Nightly News isn't the same as not coming forward.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Well it’s a load of wind baggery. She seems more concerned about promoting herself then explaining how any election fraud took place.

    Basically what she’s saying is that sometimes the vote counting machine would jam and that sometimes the operators would enter that ballot manually instead of rerunning it which is apparently what they are supposed to do.

    But she admits that she has no evidence that this tilted the election thousands of votes one way or the other way, or of any organized conspiracy to deliver the election to Biden.

    So no she is not even close to proving that a massive fraud took place.

    Her main point seems to be that she works in IT so she knows how to work voting machines.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    @Jonathan Mason

    > Her main point seems to be that she works in IT so she knows how to work voting machines.

    I must have put in the wrong link. In the testimony I heard, her main point was that Democratic poll-watchers and non-partisan public servants colluded to deny Republican pol-watchers access to the process. On multiple issues, the law said "X", but the officials declared "we're in charge here, and it's not-X". Poll-watchers who objected were ejected, with no replacements permitted.

    As Mollie Ball so bluntly explained in her Time article, people like her and like Lester Holt stepped up to fortify the election. They had to make sure that dissidents like Kolanagireddy would be prevented from spreading their Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

    I get it: Process is a pain in the ass at the best of times. And it's fun to be on the winning team.

    It's not as though there's a wheel that turns, and those who were celebrating yesterday would need protection tomorrow. It's not as if brigands ever turn on each other in the wake of a successful heist.

  79. @zenmanvolcano
    Who can jump higher, an 800 pound man or an 800 pound woman?

    Replies: @James O'Meara, @Jonathan Mason

    They are equal. Because neither of them can get off the ground.

  80. @prime noticer
    about 2 years ago i crunched the numbers on this exact question from the most recent few years of SAT results, and converted roughly to wechsler.

    the numbers say african boys by almost 2 points. which is actually the smallest difference between boys and girls out of any group, and could be confounded by the big average difference in how studious african girls are versus african boys. lots of african boys never take SAT.

    european boys were over 4 points smarter than european girls, the largest difference of any group. i made a matrix of all the groups of test takers and ordered them by the size of the boy-girl difference, i'll see if i can find that again. it was mainly due to difference in ability on the math test, but boys were still slightly better on the verbal test sometimes too.

    coincidentally, this is about representative, and is what you would normally observe on a wechsler or ravens, if the tests weren't fudged to produce boy-girl results to within 1 point around the mean score, which is what the test designers have actually done for decades. the difference is probably even bigger than that, since the tests have been carefully nerfed going back 70 years or more, to remove mechanical aptitude questions and mental rotation of objects questions, where boys were more like 8 points better on average than girls.

    TL/DNR if this were a fitness test they would have taken out bench press, and made all running distances a 10,000 so the results for untrained kids came back pretty similar.

    Replies: @Spangel12

    But arenโ€™t there more female test takers of every race? If thatโ€™s the case, one would expect that the female sample of sat test takers dips further into the left hand side of the bell curve. I doubt the sat is an equally representative sample of both sexes since many more girls than boys have grades which make them viable college applicants.

    • Replies: @Spangel12
    @Spangel12

    Also, itโ€™s likely that only the top 40% of the iq distribution is taking the sat test. Given greater male variability, one would expect the mean of the top 40% of male iq to be higher than the top 40% of female iq, even if sat attendance was equally prevalent across genders. It wouldnโ€™t actually give us any information about the overall mean difference in iq by gender.

  81. @Spangel12
    @prime noticer

    But arenโ€™t there more female test takers of every race? If thatโ€™s the case, one would expect that the female sample of sat test takers dips further into the left hand side of the bell curve. I doubt the sat is an equally representative sample of both sexes since many more girls than boys have grades which make them viable college applicants.

    Replies: @Spangel12

    Also, itโ€™s likely that only the top 40% of the iq distribution is taking the sat test. Given greater male variability, one would expect the mean of the top 40% of male iq to be higher than the top 40% of female iq, even if sat attendance was equally prevalent across genders. It wouldnโ€™t actually give us any information about the overall mean difference in iq by gender.

  82. @Prof. Woland
    @R.G. Camara

    It will be interesting to see how the information age will help or hurt those who are IQ challenged the same way the industrial revolution helped those who were physically challenged. The assumption is that there will be pressure on the less intelligent part of the population and they will be selected against or culled from the population. But the opposite might be true. Computers and AI will make thinking less important for a significant part of the population and they might be able to survive or even thrive based on other attributes. The industrial revolution made it possible for many women to work outside of the home. Prior to that their choice were farming and hunting; something better left to the men. Machines allowed many men to become far more productive in relation to other men who were bigger and stronger. You might be younger and a faster runner but my car is faster than you.

    Replies: @R.G. Camara

    Good point. But it would require that machines be far more reliable and self-repairing, or at least easier to repair for the average dude.

  83. @Jonathan Mason
    @ic1000

    Well it's a load of wind baggery. She seems more concerned about promoting herself then explaining how any election fraud took place.

    Basically what she's saying is that sometimes the vote counting machine would jam and that sometimes the operators would enter that ballot manually instead of rerunning it which is apparently what they are supposed to do.

    But she admits that she has no evidence that this tilted the election thousands of votes one way or the other way, or of any organized conspiracy to deliver the election to Biden.

    So no she is not even close to proving that a massive fraud took place.

    Her main point seems to be that she works in IT so she knows how to work voting machines.

    Replies: @ic1000

    > Her main point seems to be that she works in IT so she knows how to work voting machines.

    I must have put in the wrong link. In the testimony I heard, her main point was that Democratic poll-watchers and non-partisan public servants colluded to deny Republican pol-watchers access to the process. On multiple issues, the law said “X”, but the officials declared “we’re in charge here, and it’s not-X”. Poll-watchers who objected were ejected, with no replacements permitted.

    As Mollie Ball so bluntly explained in her Time article, people like her and like Lester Holt stepped up to fortify the election. They had to make sure that dissidents like Kolanagireddy would be prevented from spreading their Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

    I get it: Process is a pain in the ass at the best of times. And it’s fun to be on the winning team.

    It’s not as though there’s a wheel that turns, and those who were celebrating yesterday would need protection tomorrow. It’s not as if brigands ever turn on each other in the wake of a successful heist.

  84. @Steve Sailer
    @Thurston

    I've used Roth a lot, but nothing on sex differences. And it's 20 years old by now.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Thurston

    Can you, or anyone else, suggest a more recent citation than Roth et al.?

  85. Who Cares

  86. What about the children of a black father and white mother vs. children of a black mother and white father? Which group, on average, has the higher IQ? And how about other social pathologies, like sociopathy? Are they more inherited from one sex vs. the other?

  87. A major issue which lurks in the background here is that black women have long had a tendency to discourage intellectual development in black men because of potential rivalry from white women. This much is undoubtedly different in Africa where the supply of white women is much less. But here in the USA black women have long been aware that if a black man were really able to qualify for Harvard without needing Affirmative Action yo get him in, then he would almost certainly be able to find a white wife if that was he wanted.

    Because of this the tendency has been for black females to sexually reward a goodly number of black males with poor academic education or job training so that many others feel disincentives towards such learning. The functional purpose is to reduce the possibility of the black males finding alternatives to black females. In this context many black males learn to downplay their intelligence for mating purposes and the result makes it difficult to get a precise measurement.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    @Patrick McNally

    The public schools favor females over males and non-Whites over Whites.

    Gender separation has been looked down upon by public school equalizers as they feel it favors boys by not forcing them in female-oriented lessons. They have however allowed it in some charter schools for Blacks. But those are rare cases.

    I honestly wouldn't put much faith into any racial intelligence studies that look at gender or race and not for politically correct reasons.

    White boys especially have had their heads filled with all kinds of egalitarian gobbly gook from a young age. They are told that they have ruined the world and other groups would have invented as many things if not for White oppression.

    Black boys aren't any better off. Most come from single parent households and liberal school teachers focus more on the girls. Many liberals in fact seem to have given up on Black men. They just want the women to get checks.

    Our culture is an anti-White and anti-male mess. Black boys are subjected to the anti-male aspect and they also have the thug subculture they are pressured into joining. I don't believe in equal outcomes but measuring intellectual potential in the current climate is like measuring White physical fitness at Walmart. Not sure what the point would be since the mainstream still doesn't accept that men have more geniuses even though it is well documented that women are more clustered while men have more extremes.

  88. Tangential:

    I came across this regarding the predictive validity of the SAT with respect to first-year college grades. Interestingly, the test seems to over-predict the grades of black students, but under-predicts female grades. I don’t see where it breaks it out for black males vs black females. It is published by the College Board, which runs the SAT, so caveats all around.

    https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED562614.pdf

  89. @Patrick McNally
    A major issue which lurks in the background here is that black women have long had a tendency to discourage intellectual development in black men because of potential rivalry from white women. This much is undoubtedly different in Africa where the supply of white women is much less. But here in the USA black women have long been aware that if a black man were really able to qualify for Harvard without needing Affirmative Action yo get him in, then he would almost certainly be able to find a white wife if that was he wanted.

    Because of this the tendency has been for black females to sexually reward a goodly number of black males with poor academic education or job training so that many others feel disincentives towards such learning. The functional purpose is to reduce the possibility of the black males finding alternatives to black females. In this context many black males learn to downplay their intelligence for mating purposes and the result makes it difficult to get a precise measurement.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    The public schools favor females over males and non-Whites over Whites.

    Gender separation has been looked down upon by public school equalizers as they feel it favors boys by not forcing them in female-oriented lessons. They have however allowed it in some charter schools for Blacks. But those are rare cases.

    I honestly wouldn’t put much faith into any racial intelligence studies that look at gender or race and not for politically correct reasons.

    White boys especially have had their heads filled with all kinds of egalitarian gobbly gook from a young age. They are told that they have ruined the world and other groups would have invented as many things if not for White oppression.

    Black boys aren’t any better off. Most come from single parent households and liberal school teachers focus more on the girls. Many liberals in fact seem to have given up on Black men. They just want the women to get checks.

    Our culture is an anti-White and anti-male mess. Black boys are subjected to the anti-male aspect and they also have the thug subculture they are pressured into joining. I don’t believe in equal outcomes but measuring intellectual potential in the current climate is like measuring White physical fitness at Walmart. Not sure what the point would be since the mainstream still doesn’t accept that men have more geniuses even though it is well documented that women are more clustered while men have more extremes.

  90. @TWS
    @Colin Wright

    The IQs of mixed kids would tend to support this. The difference isn't small.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘The IQs of mixed kids would tend to support this. The difference isnโ€™t small.’

    What is the difference, then?

    Just to define the discussion, I tend to suspect that any difference of five or fewer IQ points is due to cultural factors.

    That’s arbitrary — but it has to be admitted that at some point, my gentile mechanic neighbor is going to say, ‘can I have a beer now?’ where a Jew is still going to be saying ‘gotta do well, gotta do well, gotta do…’

    So tell me black women score nine points higher than black men; I’m impressed. Tell me the difference is two points — I’ll shrug.

    • Replies: @TWS
    @Colin Wright

    If I recall correctly it was an eight point difference in iq of the mixed kids. But this was some years ago.

  91. @Neuday
    @tertius


    . . . educational attainment seems to tip the balance toward females.
     
    Modern "educational attainment" is acquired by the ability to conform, and females are proven conformers.

    Replies: @John Johnson

    Modern โ€œeducational attainmentโ€ is acquired by the ability to conform, and females are proven conformers.

    This is a big problem with the social sciences.

    It’s completely dominated by overly-altruistic women that are unwilling to question academic authority.

    I saw this right away in Soc 101. Women are far more likely to just nod and assume the people that wrote the books know what they are talking about.

    It’s much easier to get an A if you just repeat what you are told and don’t question the subject.

    Most of the social science courses are taught by left-wing female profs that resent the (mostly White) males that ask bigger questions that undermine egalitarian assumptions. In fact they orient the freshmen classes to discourage critical thinking and weed out what they call the sticklers.

  92. @Jonathan Mason
    @wren

    Should they have continued counting votes all night?

    I would have thought the odds of smuggling in thousands of ballot papers, all of them in favor of Biden, into vote counting centers during the small hours of the morning in different locations in different states, without being detected and without anybody involved in the fraud of the century squealing would be infinitesimal.

    But anyway the proof is in the pudding. I will accept that there was massive vote fraud when credible witnesses come forward and explain how it was done and by whom, but not based on theories drawn up by actuaries based on probability theory.

    I appreciate that in the past there probably was voting fraud on a massive scale, but it seems to me that in the modern age of computerized record keeping it is actually much less likely.

    What the USA really needs is a voting system based on social security numbers, so that anybody who is over the age of 18 and has a social security number can cast one vote in any location, but will automatically be excluded from casting another vote in any other location. This would still not be perfect, but would create a more equitable system.

    Of course you will always have a few dubious errors, like somebody will mail in a vote and then die before election day, but in a two-party system these will probably balance out.

    As things stand it seems like nobody, even including many senators, is ever going to accept the result of any national election again if a large percentage of the population agrees that the current system is so easy to defraud as to be meaningless.

    For a democratic electoral system to work with just two parties, it is necessary that after each election almost half the population accepts that the party they opposed won, otherwise the whole system collapses.

    The main thing about democracy is that if a government is hated by enough people, then it can be removed. Dictatorship maybe a more efficient and effective form of government, but it invites revolution.

    Replies: @ic1000, @wren

    Should they have continued counting votes all night?

    Isn’t that how it usually works? Has there ever been a presidential election where they closed the doors and said “We’ll get back to you tomorrow about this.”? What seems to have happened though is they TOLD Republican observers that they were going home for the night, and then went back and kept counting things. Of course, they didn’t let observers close in the first place either, due to “covid” restrictions or just covering up the windows and strong-arming them out.

    I would have thought the odds of smuggling in thousands of ballot papers, all of them in favor of Biden, into vote counting centers during the small hours of the morning in different locations in different states, without being detected and without anybody involved in the fraud of the century squealing would be infinitesimal.

    But anyway the proof is in the pudding. I will accept that there was massive vote fraud when credible witnesses come forward and explain how it was done and by whom, but not based on theories drawn up by actuaries based on probability theory.

    There are many credible witnesses describing exactly that. People who were asked to deliver ballots across state lines have come forward and provided signed affidavits. There are videos of mysterious ballot dumps early in the morning that correspond to spikes that went 95% or 100% for biden — not statistical probability or anything like that.

    I appreciate that in the past there probably was voting fraud on a massive scale, but it seems to me that in the modern age of computerized record keeping it is actually much less likely.

    As far as I know, in the one county (Antrim, MI) that did a genuine audit (not by the owners of the machines) the log files had been wiped clean, but they did find that 65% of the votes were sent to “adjudication,” meaning that the votes were manually adjusted for some reason. I think an elections officer somewhere in Georgia provided a similar number. Two thirds of the ballots were changed manually from what was entered in the computer.

    What the USA really needs is a voting system based on social security numbers, so that anybody who is over the age of 18 and has a social security number can cast one vote in any location, but will automatically be excluded from casting another vote in any other location. This would still not be perfect, but would create a more equitable system.

    That would be a step in the right direction, but most of the voting done is for local or state elections, so that would still leave a lot to be desired.

    As things stand it seems like nobody, even including many senators, is ever going to accept the result of any national election again if a large percentage of the population agrees that the current system is so easy to defraud as to be meaningless.

    For a democratic electoral system to work with just two parties, it is necessary that after each election almost half the population accepts that the party they opposed won, otherwise the whole system collapses.

    Agreed, however I think the plan is just to eliminate all the evidence of fraud from the internet and then gaslight people that any questions of the elections integrity are “baseless.” Many videos have disappeared. “All your base are belong to us.”

    The main thing about democracy is that if a government is hated by enough people, then it can be removed. Dictatorship maybe a more efficient and effective form of government, but it invites revolution.

    There is a meme on right-wing sites to the effect that when the ballot box is taken away and the soap box is taken away, all that is left is the ammo box. And it looks like they are coming for that.

    If you have any requests for specific evidence of anything I have said, I can look for it, but I am noticing that the gaslighting is in full force. Fact Check! Snopes! CNN! False Claims of election integrity! seem to be pushed by google right to the top.

    This site seems to be sincerely attempting to archive evidence. There is a lot to consider:

    https://hereistheevidence.com/ Please take a look!

    I know you don’t want any of the statistical anomalies, and I won’t include them here, but there were a few that convinced me that it wasn’t really all the mail-in fraud, it really was in the dominion machines.

  93. @Rich
    @very old statistician

    How did you decide Thomas was smarter than Scalia? Do you mean his clerks were smarter than Scalia's clerks? Thomas has always been a mediocre mind, advanced solely because of affirmative action. In a normal world he'd be working traffic court in Atlanta.

    Replies: @wren, @very old statistician

    Thomas is still alive and Scalia isn’t.

    Here’s a link to Thomas’s dissent.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/22/politics/thomas-dissent-in-pa-election/index.html

  94. @Buzz Mohawk
    Clearly it's black women. They put Americans in space.

    Replies: @Reg Cรฆsar, @anonymousperson

    Actually it was Nazi scientists.

  95. @Maven
    I hope these direct links work. PIAAC scores by race and sex.

    Numeracy:

    https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/ideuspiaac/report.aspx?p=1-LNP-1-20173-PVNUM-GENDERR,RACETHN4CAT-USH-MN_MN,SD_SD-1_Y_J-0-0-37&Lang=1033

    Literacy:

    https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/ideuspiaac/report.aspx?p=1-LNP-1-20173-PVLIT-GENDERR,RACETHN4CAT-USH-MN_MN,SD_SD-1_Y_J-0-0-37&Lang=1033

    Basically, maybe a slight advantage in literacy for black women over black men, but the male advantage in numeracy among blacks is about the same as it is among other races.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Thanks.

  96. @Sean
    Slightly higher for black women according to the 1974 Race by J Baker. Genes are tagged for whether they came from mother or father, with big implications for the most important nine month's of ones life, which is before one is born. The Minnesota biracial study data apparently suggests being born to a white mother is a big advantage; I am not sure whether biracial black women score higher than the men.

    Replies: @no jack london

    Anecdotal evidence in remote Native Alaskan villages reveal a contrary result. When a trapper once passed thru, stayed awhile, and partook of local female hospitality the off-spring is the star of the northern sky.

  97. @Colin Wright
    @TWS

    'The IQs of mixed kids would tend to support this. The difference isnโ€™t small.'

    What is the difference, then?

    Just to define the discussion, I tend to suspect that any difference of five or fewer IQ points is due to cultural factors.

    That's arbitrary -- but it has to be admitted that at some point, my gentile mechanic neighbor is going to say, 'can I have a beer now?' where a Jew is still going to be saying 'gotta do well, gotta do well, gotta do...'

    So tell me black women score nine points higher than black men; I'm impressed. Tell me the difference is two points -- I'll shrug.

    Replies: @TWS

    If I recall correctly it was an eight point difference in iq of the mixed kids. But this was some years ago.

  98. @Rich
    @very old statistician

    How did you decide Thomas was smarter than Scalia? Do you mean his clerks were smarter than Scalia's clerks? Thomas has always been a mediocre mind, advanced solely because of affirmative action. In a normal world he'd be working traffic court in Atlanta.

    Replies: @wren, @very old statistician

    I have read about 50 dissents by Thomas and about 50 by Scalia. Scalia was really really good on obvious constitutional disagreements/controversies (originalism or not, legislative intent or not, balance of powers) – none of which were really difficult topics if you had read the Federalist papers a couple of times, and if your intellectual powers were at about the level of a philosophy professor at a good State U —-Thomas was really really good on Bill of Rights issues, and taught me things about the law when I read his decisions (Scalia only taught me how Scalia thought about things. Alito, one of the few famous people alive today who I consider my intellectual equivalent, or close, is more like Thomas in this respect, thus my assessment that Alito and Thomas are ahead of Scalia on the relevant scale – to be fair there are tens of thousands of non-famous people who I am sure are my intellectual equivalent or better).

    Rehnquist was really at his best on statutory construction at the federal level, he had little interest in 14th amendment jurisprudence, and it showed.

    I have little respect for the other 8 jurisprudes other than Rehnquist on the 1973 court, but Blackmun was an above average tax lawyer (he could easily have been a partner at any good firm), “Whizzer” White was pretty bright for a mediocre intellect, and I could go on and on about the others. But I would not have anything really nice to say about them except they were foolish men who were fairly intelligent.

    Clarence Thomas is much more intelligent than anyone on the Supreme Court in 1973, with the possible exception of Rehnquist, and as the years go by he will be considered one of the two or three greatest legal minds of his generation. Sorry if you think he should be in traffic court. (Although I am happy that you have not, as I have, read thousands of Supreme Court decisions – life is short! … but had you done so, I guess you would agree with me – trust me)

    • Replies: @Rich
    @very old statistician

    You don't understand how the USSC justices write opinions. In most cases, especially with Thomas, his opinions are written by his clerks, and he signs his name to them. Thomas has been gifted with some of the better clerks, Scalia actually participated more than most other justices in writing opinions. Insiders at the court have long joked about Thomas's low intellectual abilities. Not to say he isn't a decent man, he just isn't as swift as you imagine.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  99. @very old statistician
    @Rich

    I have read about 50 dissents by Thomas and about 50 by Scalia. Scalia was really really good on obvious constitutional disagreements/controversies (originalism or not, legislative intent or not, balance of powers) - none of which were really difficult topics if you had read the Federalist papers a couple of times, and if your intellectual powers were at about the level of a philosophy professor at a good State U ----Thomas was really really good on Bill of Rights issues, and taught me things about the law when I read his decisions (Scalia only taught me how Scalia thought about things. Alito, one of the few famous people alive today who I consider my intellectual equivalent, or close, is more like Thomas in this respect, thus my assessment that Alito and Thomas are ahead of Scalia on the relevant scale - to be fair there are tens of thousands of non-famous people who I am sure are my intellectual equivalent or better).

    Rehnquist was really at his best on statutory construction at the federal level, he had little interest in 14th amendment jurisprudence, and it showed.

    I have little respect for the other 8 jurisprudes other than Rehnquist on the 1973 court, but Blackmun was an above average tax lawyer (he could easily have been a partner at any good firm), "Whizzer" White was pretty bright for a mediocre intellect, and I could go on and on about the others. But I would not have anything really nice to say about them except they were foolish men who were fairly intelligent.

    Clarence Thomas is much more intelligent than anyone on the Supreme Court in 1973, with the possible exception of Rehnquist, and as the years go by he will be considered one of the two or three greatest legal minds of his generation. Sorry if you think he should be in traffic court. (Although I am happy that you have not, as I have, read thousands of Supreme Court decisions - life is short! ... but had you done so, I guess you would agree with me - trust me)

    Replies: @Rich

    You don’t understand how the USSC justices write opinions. In most cases, especially with Thomas, his opinions are written by his clerks, and he signs his name to them. Thomas has been gifted with some of the better clerks, Scalia actually participated more than most other justices in writing opinions. Insiders at the court have long joked about Thomas’s low intellectual abilities. Not to say he isn’t a decent man, he just isn’t as swift as you imagine.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Rich

    '... Insiders at the court have long joked about Thomasโ€™s low intellectual abilities. Not to say he isnโ€™t a decent man, he just isnโ€™t as swift as you imagine.'

    I can't say the news is welcome -- I liked it when I had the impression Thomas was an exception to the rule -- but I can't say I'm surprised.

  100. @Rich
    @very old statistician

    You don't understand how the USSC justices write opinions. In most cases, especially with Thomas, his opinions are written by his clerks, and he signs his name to them. Thomas has been gifted with some of the better clerks, Scalia actually participated more than most other justices in writing opinions. Insiders at the court have long joked about Thomas's low intellectual abilities. Not to say he isn't a decent man, he just isn't as swift as you imagine.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘… Insiders at the court have long joked about Thomasโ€™s low intellectual abilities. Not to say he isnโ€™t a decent man, he just isnโ€™t as swift as you imagine.’

    I can’t say the news is welcome — I liked it when I had the impression Thomas was an exception to the rule — but I can’t say I’m surprised.

  101. @Jim Johnsen
    Pulled this from somewhere else on the internet: "Why do black men do worse on IQ tests relative to black women? I would start there. I first came across this fact in a piece by Thomas Sowell: โ€œStudies had shown that females predominated among high-IQ blacks. One study of blacks whose IQs were 140 and up found that there were more than five times as many females as males at these levelsโ€ (quote from https://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2002/10/01/race-and-iq-n1000028). Those numbers sound quite extraordinary. Among whites, the standard of deviation in IQ is higher among males than females, and they have about the same average. Black males do not have a higher standard of deviation than black females. How much lower is the average IQ of black men compared to black women? Steve Sailer, using data provided by Charles Murray from the militaryโ€™s AFQT, says about 2.4 points, compared to 0.8 points among whites (see https://isteve.blogspot.com/2005/12/do-black-women-have-higher-iqs-than.html)."

    Replies: @ginger bread man

    https://www.nytimes.com/1977/03/27/archives/new-light-on-black-iq.html
    Sowell in the NYT:

    …black females consistently score higher on mental tests than do black males. This has been true for decades and for a variety of mental tests. Among highโ€I.Q. individuals in the general population, the sexes are almost equally represented (with a slight male advantage), but the persistent female advantage among blacks becomes even more pro nounced at the higher I.Q. levels. Studies of black children with I.Q.’s of 120 and above have found from three to five times as many girls as boys at these levels

    Black is not capitalized

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