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A Tourist Family’s Bad Behavior Has New Zealand Rethinking Its Welcome Mat
By Charlotte Graham-McLay, Jan. 22, 2019
WELLINGTON, New Zealand — They dumped chips on someone’s beach blanket. They reportedly stole a Christmas tree from a gas station. They were eventually issued deportation notices after the police were called to a disturbance at a Burger King.
An English family touring New Zealand — about 12 people, including children — was so unruly that social media posts documenting their bad behavior were picked up by national news outlets, which sent out alerts about the family’s location and latest reported antics, including refusing to pick up garbage left on the beach and throwing food on the floor at a cafe. …
Three members of the family did not respond to interview requests. But Barbara Doran, one of the tourists, told The Daily Mail that her family had been “tortured” by New Zealanders and had done nothing wrong.
Although the family members had been issued deportation notices by New Zealand immigration officials after an incident at a Burger King in the city of Hamilton, some remained in the country as of Tuesday. (New Zealand permits visitors to appeal deportation notices, and they cannot be deported until their appeals are complete.) One of the family members, Tina Maria Cash, was convicted of theft in the Hamilton District Court and ordered to pay 55 New Zealand dollars for stealing from a gas station.
But are the Unruly English Tourists English English or are they Irish Traveler English?
They seem to tell New Zealand private citizens that they are Irish but tell the New Zealand media that they are English. They have British passports and seem to have last lived in trailer parks in the English Midlands.
So, I dunno.
Whoever the Unruly Tourists turn out to be, Irish Travelers / Tinkers are pretty interesting: they share a lot of behavioral traits with Gypsies / Roma, but don’t appear to be genetically related. Alternatively, they can be viewed culturally as Extreme Irish. From Wikipedia:
In 2017 a further genetic study using profiles of 50 Irish Travellers, 143 European Roma, 2232 settled Irish, 2039 British and 6255 European or worldwide individuals confirmed ancestral origin within the general Irish population. An estimated time of divergence between the settled population and Travellers was set at a minimum of 8 generations ago, with generations at 30 years, hence 240 years and a maximum of 14 generations or 420 years ago. The best fit was estimated at 360 years ago, giving an approximate date in the 1650s. This date coincides remarkably well with the final destruction of Gaelic society following the 1641 Rebellion and during the Wars of the Three Kingdoms in which Cromwell’s forces devastated the country.
Irish Travellers are not an entirely homogeneous group instead reflecting some of the variation also seen in the settled population. Four distinct genetic clusters were identified in the 2017 study, and these match social groupings within the community.
So, perhaps they are Irish who lost their land in the disasters of the 1600s — the English maintained harmony and property rights within England by telling the winners of the two English civil wars to go over to Ireland, put down the rebels, and take their land.
Their traditional economic niche seems pretty reasonable — they did simple metal work such as knife sharpening that a village needs done only once or twice per year, so they moved around to bring their services to the sedentary population. But having no fixed abode seems to generate cultural problems, such as an irresponsible attitude toward littering and crime.
Or maybe everybody in Ireland used to be as carefree as the Travelers, while the current Irish personality, which tends to the gloomy and anhedonic, is a fairly recent contrivance perhaps in response to the Malthusian catastrophe of 1846.
The population of the 26 counties of the Republic of Ireland is now about 4.8 million. In 1841 it was 6.5 million. Starvation and out-migration played a huge role in reducing the population, but so did the Catholic Church’s cultivating a new Irish personality of restraint.
The most famous Traveler is former heavyweight champ Tyson Fury, who, if boxing were still big, would be the most famous athlete in the world.
Fury, 6’9″, last month fought a spectacular comeback bout with American champ Deontay Wilder. Fury was heading toward an upset on points when …
Fury went down so hard his skull bounced off the canvas, but, somehow, he got up before the count of ten and earned a draw.
After bouts, Fury serenades his fans from the ring with karaoke selections. Here, following his ding-dong draw with Wilder, after absorbing one of the scarier one-two combinations I’ve seen, he’s leading the sporting press in singing “American Pie:”
I kind of like this idea that the Traveler – Gypsy connection is misleading: instead, maybe Travelers are Super Irish. Everything about Tyson Fury seems to be some kind of insane Irish stereotype on steroids:
Tyson Luke Fury was born and raised in Wythenshawe, Manchester, England. At birth, he weighed only 1lb after being born three months premature.[13] His father John named him Tyson after the then-world undisputed heavyweight champion Mike Tyson.[14]
His family is of Irish Traveller heritage.[15] His paternal grandfather was from Tuam, County Galway, which is also the birthplace of his father, John Fury.[16] The Furys of Galway are ultimately of Gaelic origin, deriving their present name from Ó Fiodhabhra.[17] His maternal grandmother is from County Tipperary and his mother was born in Belfast.[18][19]
The Fury family has a long history in boxing;[14] his father competed in the 1980s as “Gypsy” John Fury,[20] initially as a bare-knuckle fighter and unlicensed boxer, and then as a professional boxer.[21]
Furys younger brother Tommy Fury made his professional debut on 22 December 2018 with trainer and two-weight world champion Ricky Hatton.[22]
He is the older cousin of professional heavyweight Hughie Fury.[23] He is also a distant relative of “self-styled King of the Gypsies”[24] Bartley Gorman,[25] hence Fury’s own self-styled nickname, ‘Gypsy King’.[26] He has also styled himself as ‘The Furious One'[27] and ‘2 Fast’ Fury.[28] He is also the distant cousin of professional Nathan Gorman who is also trained by two-weight wolrd champion Ricky Hatton alongside his younger brother Tommy Fury.[29]
Despite strongly identifying with his Irish heritage, Fury has had problems in gaining dual citizenship because, in the 1960s, his father’s birth in County Galway was not recorded civilly, as Irish Travellers at the time only recorded births through baptism with the Church, rather than officially with the state.[30]
If we’re spreading stereotypes about obnoxious travelers . . .
https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/family-kicked-off-flight-out-of-florida-after-complaints-about-body-odor/1728497564
It is the sorry plight of the Travellers that every term assigned to describe them eventually becomes associated in the public mind with thievery. It is about time for another name change. That will fix the problem.
= MSM makes you famous.
*I informally polled guesthouse owners while traveling. In Asia, Israelis and Australians are considered the worst guests. And that was after I tried to get people to tell me it was the PRCs!
Fury’s interesting and fun–the best thing to happen to boxing in my lifetime. Shortly before he dropped out of society for awhile, he showed potential as a possible future Unz contributor.
Tyson Fury makes me proud to have Irish blood!
Why can't Leprechaun bastards like Joe Biden and John Brennan be more like Tyson Fury?
Joe Biden is a Leprechaun whore boy for the Israel First treasonites in the JEW/WASP ruling class of the American Empire.
The Irish are a tough and brave people that you want on your side. There must be millions of people of some Irish ancestry in the United States who reject treasonous rat Joe Biden and all the anti-White globalizer crap that he pushes.
In answer to the question in the title, obviously these people are England-resident Travellers. This particular group do not seem to call themselves Irish, which is their business, but they are definitely a clan from the Travellers community. It may be relying on stereotypes (I suppose it is) but once one is familiar with the dress and typical behaviors, these people are easily identified. Some of the Traveller clans have been in England for so long that they have lost all or most of their links to Ireland, but they keep their Traveller lifestyles. The Traveller clans in England tend on average to be less poor and more obnoxious than the ones in Ireland (again, sorry for mentioning true stereotypes). Calling them “Irish” without the “Travellers” modifier is not appropriate since “Irish” divides into “settled Irish” (the vast majority) and “Irish Travellers” (a small minority which is very distinctive).
Incidentally, there is no genetic link between the Irish Travellers and the Gypsy Roma. There is a similarity in lifestyle but no genetic link.
Also see Pussyhats' Travelling Menstrual Show
“Doran” is an Irish name, but then, your family could have moved over hundreds of years ago. And there are certainly English people this obnoxious.
The media have covered for people like this for a very a long time.
Also, apparently her rant may be grounds for her arrest as it’s been deemed racist. Silly micks, don’t they know that you can’t be racist against white people? Smdh, fam. It’s 2019!
https://pics.me.me/you-on-facebook-vs-you-in-real-life-these-white-6700083.png
Advice for Irish Travellers: When in Rome, do as the Roma do.
Also see Pussyhats’ Travelling Menstrual Show
https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/family-kicked-off-flight-out-of-florida-after-complaints-about-body-odor/1728497564
The terminology “Traveller” as a descriptive name for Irish gypsies/tinkers/itinerants is very confusing. These people were historically called “Tinkers” which is a lovely descriptive term, based on their historical role as repair people travelling around and fixing pots, kitchen knives, stoves, and other household appliances in rural Ireland. However over time the term “Tinker” became associated with thievery and so the social justice warriors banned the term from polite discussion, replacing it with the term “Itinerants.” This made-up term was at least a bit descriptive since the Traveller lifestyle involves frequent movement and no fixed abode (they live in trailer homes, mostly). However over time this term also became associated with thievery and so the social justice warriors banned it, replacing it with the new made-up name “Travellers.” This term is confusing, and over time it has become associated with thievery.
It is the sorry plight of the Travellers that every term assigned to describe them eventually becomes associated in the public mind with thievery. It is about time for another name change. That will fix the problem.
The more times the name has changed the more "problematic" the group described are.
Idiots are a good example. While they can have superior moral values, and human value, it is obviously not the better option if everything is kept constant, even while they are idiots through no fault of their own. Anyway:
As introduced by S.G. Howe (1846), simpleton was intended to mean people with mild intellectual disability. However, it never fully entered the worldwide medical community's terminology. The term was later replaced by "moron."
Moron was an invented word. A psychologist named Henry Goddard developed the term. It was used to classify people with mild intellectual disabilities. Goddard created the novel word by combining parts of words like sophomore and oxymoron. The term was used to replace feeble-minded. Feebleminded was misused by society to refer to people with any severity of ID.
Feeble-minded came from the Latin word flebilis. It means, "to be lamented." It referred to people who were not profoundly disabled, but still required intervention and care.
Retarded comes from the Latin retardare. This means, "to make slow, delay, keep back, or hinder." The first record of the word "retarded" in relation to developmental delay was in 1895. The term retarded was used to replace terms like idiot, moron, and imbecile. This was because it was not a derogatory term at that time. However, by the 1960s, the term became a word used to insult someone.
What is it now "mentally challenged?" However you rename it, it will not maintain even neutral connotations. People don't want to be like stupid people are.
A recent topic was rock song lyrics. So, on this traveller business, the next time I hear Van the Man's. Caravan, I'll listen with a fresh ear. (Maybe, he'll do it live stateside this spring.)
You are right Steve, and this is a point that is not being made in the British press.
I live in the East Midlands, and we have several big Traveller sites not far from me in places like Gainsborough and Newark. They are loathed and feared, and not because of ‘stereotypes’ but because they are far and away the most anti-social group of people that any of us have ever come across.
Not long ago there was a story in the local paper that several of them had been sent to prison for keeping slaves. Slaves! They were finding vulnerable elderly and homeless people, chaining them up at their sites in shacks and forcing them to work. In the case of one old man, they had sold his house and pocketed the money, and when he became too old and sick to work they dumped him on the doorstep of a hospital with no ID, where he died, with no-one knowing who he was and no family around him.
They commit a huge number of burglaries, especially in rural areas. They build their houses on private land, and set up camps on private land which they often use as literal rubbish dumps as a sideline until they move on. They deal drugs and terrorise local communities, but the police simply don’t dare to enter their sites, as does no-one else. They go door to door and pressurise elderly people into house repairs they do not need and then charge them ridiculous prices they cannot afford. They steal anything metal out of your garden for scrap. They park wherever they want and no-one tickets them.
In a country as atomised as Britain, a group of several dozen hard men can basically informally rule a neighbourhood. They are almost totally above the law, and they have completely ruined several quite pleasant small market towns. They are quite simply the worst group of white people in the world.
Malthusian catastrophe
Heh, nice one, Steve.
Check out the monster terrorising NZed:
Footage showed a young boy, wearing a wide-brimmed Bunnings Warehouse hat, approach Ms Curnow, telling her: ‘I’ll knock your brains out’.
Laugh Out Fucking Loud! Fair dinkum the Kiwis have turned into a nation of skirt lifting fairies. They’ve been in hysterics for weeks hunkered down hiding from these pommie pikies it’s all you can read about. The absolute state of the south seas poms.
Did you see this one too, Stevo: https://dailystormer.name/based-boomer-forces-taiwanese-flight-attendant-to-wipe-his-ass/
Kuo, who was holding onto the passenger to keep in steady, recalled: ‘He said: “Oh, mmm, deeper, deeper,” and then accused my chief attendant of not properly cleaning his backside, requesting that she do it again.’
Kuo said the attendant repeated the action three times before leaving, at which point the passenger said: ‘You can pull my pants back up now.’
Now that’s what I’d call an Extreme American. Relative of yours, Steve?
Yup, I noticed that too, the media not raising the question of Travelers, because racist or bigoted, or whatever it would be called.
Isn’t Irish, followed by a description of criminal behavior, brig redundant?
Richard Burton, Gypsy & Richard Burton, Welshman
From Edward Rice’s book on Richard Burton, Chapter I, page one:
Regarding RB’s father: “Though English by ancestry, he was born in Ireland…”
Re RB:”This led to Richard’s often being called Irish, but in fact he lacked any traces of Irish blood…Though the name Burton was common in England, it was also a Gypsy or Romany name, and everyone agreed that Richard Burton had the general appearance associated with Gypsies.”
As mentioned on another unreadable post, I’d lost my copy of “The Europeans” by John Geipel. In it was mentioned the “flash talk” of a crime-prone culture. I was only able to Google the following which mentions “a wild district of Derbyshire” (which could bring to mind another John and surely some Gypsies were pimps) and seems to suggest that the very word “slang” is slang for Flash Talk:
https://books.google.com/books?id=_m7k1Oi-cakC&pg=PA191&lpg=PA191&dq=Gypsy+%22flash+talk%22&source=bl&ots=exbdxGMtWr&sig=ACfU3U1Z8oFoVTuu3CRqB4LNrRFBleDcIw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiTg_fDyI3gAhWsxYMKHVx4AcEQ6AEwAXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Gypsy%20%22flash%20talk%22&f=false
The copy once here of Fawn(see also Faun, less than a tome, but hard to get through in an afternoon) McKay Brodie’s Burton bio, “The Devil Drives” was left years ago at me Mum’s. That book does not reference a mad passion of serial monogamy to marry Elizabeth Taylor twice given that the above is not about the guy who schtupps that Queen of the Nile, Cleopatra (Elizabeth Taylor), but rather the guy who famously searched for the source of the Nile – which could lead some searching past the classic crank call to a tobacco shop of “Do you have Prince Albert in the can? You do? Better let him out!” to Lake Albert and then on to the Nile.
In Shakespeare’s Antony and Cleopatra the latter speaks thusly of the former:
“His delights
Were dolphinlike; they showed his back above
The element they lived in.”
I couldn’t find that line in the budget-busting movie, “Cleopatra,” but do remember that when Antony (Richard Burton) falls on his sword near the end of the film, he does so accidentally on porpoise.
We probably do seem “anhedonic” to goofy Americans who spend their lives smiling like salesmen
https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/family-kicked-off-flight-out-of-florida-after-complaints-about-body-odor/1728497564
They got kicked off the plane and played the anti-semitism card like a gunslinger plays the six-gun:
US family booted off flight ‘for overpowering BO’ accuse airline of anti-Semitism
Also, the Ever-Vigilant Patrol against Evil Symbols goes on:
Labour MP suing the Sun newspaper for libel over ‘delights in Nazi symbols’ claim
This time it’s about politicians liking rocks bands using runes and then Murdoch’s Sun uses this as prrrrooof of antisemitism. It’s not as if this smells like the usual weaponized smearing with antisemitism by shadowy influencers, not at all. Who would think such a thing?
Satan is in the land.
“somehow, he got up before the count of ten and earned a draw.”
When I click slowly through the sequence Tyson’s head is bobbing and weaving. While Wilder’s punches seem to land Tysons head is actually traveling in the same direction as the punch so Wilder’s hooks are not really hitting Fury’s head at full force. Wilder definitely hit Fury with his left hook, but because of Fury’s bobbing his fall to the mat was partially a slip. Wilder is scored full points, but Fury was not really hurt, by boxing standards, and got up.
If you are one of those people who accuse athletes of ‘Simulation’, to use soccer term, it is possible Fury figured if he stayed upright he would have been eventually pummeled into submission, so Fury decided to stop the action by hitting the mat in exchange for losing points.
Proper tool and knife sharpening is actually a high skill profession.
It is actually the Irish Travelers, who are itinerant tradespeople, that are most screwed by immigration. Economically using Travelers as tradespeople meant that once work dried up in one area of the UK the travelers would move on to where the work was. The more settled Britons would stay put when work dried up and demand the government supply them with food and shelter until work eventually showed up. New immigrants follow the same pattern of settling down and demanding benefits from the government.
While it is not clear to me if Travelers are better behaved around local women, it seems extreme adherence to Roman Catholicism seems to reduce the chance of something like the sexual grooming scandals.
Another advantage to Travelers do not seem to seek political power as new arrivals in the UK do.
Irish Travelers do not seem to be ‘educated’ but unlike their more settled neighbors do not seem to demand expensive educational resources supplied by the government.
Why aren’t Cental Americans called Mayan Travelers?
This is such a funny story as these people have completely baffled NZers who have no experience of the Irish and british traveller communities. But yeah, they’re Irish travellers living in England. There are plenty of them around. Australia has been having some problems with them recently too.
The other funny thing is the initial video that kicked this off. Littering in NZ is a social crime on a par with murder, and they left their garbage all over a beach site. NZ women are never shy about coming forward and telling people what they’re doing is wrong, and so the meeting of two incompatible cultures began. NZ hasn’t seen anything like it since the first visit of Captain Cook.
Likely a large part of the NZ population is of Irish descent.
In England, ‘Irish Travellers’ are notorious for scamming naive householders by offering construction work at the doorstep.
Usually the work turns out to be sub standard – particularly roofing work, which of course, the householder can never see.
Anyone who has had a close up encounter with the “Travellers” is unlikely to have a sentimental recall of the event.
Recently they’ve been highlighted in slavery cases. See, for example
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2248125/High-life-travellers-ran-slave-gang-Lived-luxury-beating-homeless-man-state-servitude.html
But I don’t you would find a large English family multi-generational group on holiday behaving like this. Anyone British reading this story for the first time new immediately what these people were.
The media have covered for people like this for a very a long time.
So, the Irish travelers were the survivors of Cromwell’s genocide. Maybe in 150 years American Whites who survived the coming grnocide will be traveling tinkers or hunter gathers in remote mountains.
Travelers like to fight.
The problem is that the police in Ireland do not enforce the law. Instead, the police make appeals to mutual good will and social conformity. Travelers reject society and have their own code of behavior so they get away with things that should never be tolerated.
It is hard not to respect Tyson Fury. He has been on the bottom, fought his way to the top, fell back down to the darkest place possible, but managed to crawl back up again. A charismatic and soulful dude.
Heart of a Lion.
Travelers racing horses on the motorway in Ireland.
https://youtu.be/ljPFZrRD3J8
The pot calling the kettle black ?
Auckland Mayor Phil Goff is standing by his comments calling a group of unruly British “worse than pigs” and “a***holes”.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12197020
I had thought Steve had made a mistake, by comparing the Republic of Ireland with Ireland, but I think he referred to a 26 county comparison. The whole island is at 6.5 million people today and was at 8.5 million before the famine.
It’s quite interesting for a Western country’s population (or any country’s population) to be smaller today, on the same territory, than it was 200 years ago. Especially one as wealthy as it is, even at its poorest in recent memory.
It is the sorry plight of the Travellers that every term assigned to describe them eventually becomes associated in the public mind with thievery. It is about time for another name change. That will fix the problem.
That’s how Gypsies became the Roma.
Do you keep your knives as decorations in a glass case?
Honing: A honing steel basically pushes the edge of the knife back to the center and straightens it. It corrects the edge without shaving off much, if any, of the blade’s material. Honing doesn’t actually sharpen the knife, but if done properly, the knife will seem sharper because the blade is now in the proper position. Honing should be done often — some even hone before each use.
Sharpening: Sharpening, on the other hand, is a process where bits of the blade are ground and shaved off to produce a new, sharp edge. It can be done using a water stone, whetstone, or electric knife sharpener. Sharpening can be done less frequently than honing — just a few times a year depending on how much use the knife gets.
https://www.thekitchn.com/did-you-know-this-steel-doesnt-actually-sharpen-knives-211855
Tinkers also repaired metal roofs ((shoddy) roof repair is still a Traveller/Gypsy trade) and made useful and decorative items (pie tins, lampshades, etc.) out of tin plated steel. Unlike a blacksmith who needed a forge and a heavy anvil, the tools for tinkering were lightweight and could be transported in their caravans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLH29M1Isvk
Tyson has also criticised homosexuals, the lack of media enthusiasm is unsurprising, but he is popular with the general public.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvXojb-lCdQ
The problem is that the police in Ireland do not enforce the law. Instead, the police make appeals to mutual good will and social conformity. Travelers reject society and have their own code of behavior so they get away with things that should never be tolerated.
It is hard not to respect Tyson Fury. He has been on the bottom, fought his way to the top, fell back down to the darkest place possible, but managed to crawl back up again. A charismatic and soulful dude.
Heart of a Lion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNZtibrPo0g
Travelers racing horses on the motorway in Ireland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuMS3WRGIvQ
Do they? Those two fat men certainly don’t know how, what with winging arm punches with their chins up in the air and zero footwork.
Whence their reputation for large families?
It is the sorry plight of the Travellers that every term assigned to describe them eventually becomes associated in the public mind with thievery. It is about time for another name change. That will fix the problem.
Tinkering, itinerant, traveling thieves?
I thought it was interesting that the lumpy-looking Fury (6’9”, 253 lbs) was the technical, finesse boxer in that fight while the thin, ripped Wilder (6’7” 213 lbs) was the hard-hitting slugger. Indeed, Wilder is actually a very poor boxer, having gotten to where he his simply by having such a powerful knockout punch.
My mother used to threaten to sell me to the tinkers when I misbehaved.
In all seriousness these peoples behavior is awful. They are also deeply inbred with life expectancy for men around 50. R/K personified.
Media coverup! This group is really Matt Lauer and posse on their way to his spider hole on the South Island.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/24/world/asia/matt-lauer-new-zealand-ranch-access.html
In Gaelic times, Irish people mostly lived in extended clan groups, known as Septs. People in these clans were highly inter-related, with cousin marriage being practiced. The travellers are the only modern Irish people who live in extended clan groups, with cousin marriage still being common.
https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/family-kicked-off-flight-out-of-florida-after-complaints-about-body-odor/1728497564
Misbehavior+white skin
= MSM makes you famous.
The Doran family are Irish. You can hear one of their children shouting in a thick Irish accent on one video. Like most Irish Travellers they probably have a second home in Ireland. I don’t know if the Irish Travellers have a lot of Viking genes but they certainly have a Viking lifestyle. Until a few a decades ago their annual predatory raids were restricted to Ireland and the UK but now their visits are dreaded in countries like Sweden, Germany and France.
Why would the Brits have to keep the winners happy after 2 civil wars? Would have made more sense to tell the losers that they could leave England and go pillage Ireland as a consolation prize.
One theory of itinerant people is that we forget that prior to relatively recently the state was often what Libertarians imagine it to always be, an instrument for taxing you to death and conscripting your sons for wars.
So the Roma, Swedish/Norwegian Travellers and Irish Travellers all seem to have come from an event of people deciding to flee some despotic rulers (Or mass conscription of precious sons) and then some of them continued such a life rather than settling down.
The dwellers of the Chittagong Hill Tract in modern Bangladesh were originally thought to be a relict population of hunter gatherers and their stories of once living in a valley and farming were taken for myths. It now appears that they fled a Khmer state centuries ago leaving behind the literate people who enabled tax collecting. So they follow the origin but settled, only being visible as a distinct people due to the isolation of where they went and loss of agriculture and writing.
What is interesting is the convergent evolution of the Roma, Irish and Swedish travellers of consanguinity along with a varying degree of moral tolerance of cheating outsiders and anti-social behaviour along with social segregation. (Travellers are the one ethnic group you can say a lot about before somebody tries to defend in Ireland) It appears to support the idea of the conservation of ingroupness. It has perhaps unfortunate implications for other itinerant groups.
Did any significant number of Irish Travellers immigrate to the USA, and if so what do we know about them?
In real life, one was arrested in a mall parking lot for beating her toddler and she claimed it was a cultural misunderstanding.
Charming folks altogether.
The womenfolk stay home and raise the kids. The men stay home in the winter but in the warmer months they take to the road. They travel around doing various construction jobs, asphalt driveway paving or sealcoating, roofing, grain bin or barn painting.
Like Gypsies, they seem to have a reputation for dishonesty. Some people who hire a Traveller construction crew are happy with their work; others complain of shoddy worksmanship, inferior materials etc.
I've driven through their "village" many times, as they live in one area, known as Murphy's Village. The homes are distinctive, ornate to the point of being gaudy, with a statue of Mary being the centerpiece to the front of every home. The first time I drove through I noticed several had all the windows covered with aluminum foil on the inside, and seemed to be abandonded, though they were obviously brand new. Some were not quite finished. One story I got was that it was a ritual that they wouldn't live in a home for a year after it was built, but I think they just seal them up tight before they hit the road every year.
Most live in Murphy's Village in the Winter months only. In the Spring they have a big party, then pack up their pick-ups and "caravans" and hit the road to work as contractors in the warm months. They used to do all sorts of odd jobs, such as house painting, where many say they were known for using the lowest quality of paints available, and thinning that as much as possible. I never met anyone satisfied with a Traveller paint job. They also used to make chairs, rocking chairs in particular, and sell them on the roadside. They were never known as being of any quality whatsoever. So they would leave their homes and go out and scam for nine months, then go home and marry their underage cousins and nieces.
This last was the subject of an investigation that I never heard or read of the resolution to. Girls as young as 12 and 13 were married off to older relatives in a large festival every year; it was said to be an old Irish Traveller tradtion.
All that being said, I haven't been through Murphy's Village in a couple of decades, nor have I seen or heard much about the Travellers since.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/family-who-lost-seven-members-to-suicide-plead-for-mental-health-services-1.3654896
https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/others/irish-schizophrenia-stalking-madness
Yes Travelers are as uber-Irish, red hair a la little Orphan Annie is associated with Travelers in Ireland. The Island's Catholic population have on average a lot of the genes that make Fury mentally unstable unable to stop eating and drinking. He lost a massive amount of weight for the comeback but that weakened him. His trainer does not know what he is doing (I know that drugs were probabally used as in all pro sports now).https://youtu.be/XYu6VMC_42k?t=1159
There are of course assimilated, non-thieving people of Tinker ancestry. But that sort of begs the question, what makes you a Tinker, the ancestry or the thieving.
I posted this in another thread some time ago . I believe it's a real thing . Good movie too .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dOZyrzR7R0
They've a solid presence in the southeastern F.U.S.A., where they get up to what you'd reckon they get up to:
https://www.wrdw.com/content/news/Nineteen-Irish-travelers-accused-of-racketeering-fraud-enter-not-guilty-pleas-391759251.html
*Not sure how much they contribute to golf-course architecture....
"Court hears inner workings of SC Irish Travelers’ multimillion-dollar insurance scam"
https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article222781445.html
"SC Irish Travelers linked to $1 million murder-for-hire scheme in Texas"
https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article214280464.html
They ran/run old time carnivals. Not too much left of that bit of old weird America.
In the 1950s while serving in the Army, stationed at a camp down in Georgia, my father accompanied the post Catholic priest to an impromptu Mass that the Priest said for a group of Irish American Tinkers, camped out deep in a pine forest. These were hillbilly, redneck southern American Tinkers, been in this country for who knows how many generations, but they were still distinctively Irish and distinctively Catholic. Old weird America.
https://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/dateline-nbc/episode-884972/100110/
First Aired: May 22, 1996
Scheduled: A "Lie, Cheat & Steal" report on "Irish Travelers," bands of alleged scammers who travel around the U.S. Included: hidden-camera footage. Lea Thompson is the correspondent.
A grim note on that is that it used to be an idiom that you never saw a bald Traveller, because the men all died so young.
It is the sorry plight of the Travellers that every term assigned to describe them eventually becomes associated in the public mind with thievery. It is about time for another name change. That will fix the problem.
They are also called pikeys or pikies.
When I was a kid in 1960s Montclair, NJ we had a knife sharpening guy drive around in a van with no driver side door. I have not seen that kind of thing in 40-50 years.
https://municibid.com/NetworkedContent/listingImages/20160111/fb576eaf-c82e-4939-bf84-56089c81d284_fullsize.jpg
Obligatory clip from “Snatch.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wYd8ylLf-c
https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/family-kicked-off-flight-out-of-florida-after-complaints-about-body-odor/1728497564
Jews–or, I should say, Israelis–already have a reputation for being obnoxious travellers*, but not because of body odor. I thought this was going to be about Indians.
*I informally polled guesthouse owners while traveling. In Asia, Israelis and Australians are considered the worst guests. And that was after I tried to get people to tell me it was the PRCs!
Barbasol add :
FU Gillette .
See “the riches”
In real life, one was arrested in a mall parking lot for beating her toddler and she claimed it was a cultural misunderstanding.
They have this confusing custom of have young women dress like streetwalkers but staying virgins to marriage. Then their the grabbing ritual.
Kind of like these guys?:
It is the sorry plight of the Travellers that every term assigned to describe them eventually becomes associated in the public mind with thievery. It is about time for another name change. That will fix the problem.
In Ireland, at least, they’ve moved on to “The unsettled community” or some such. I suppose the “Unsettling community” wouldn’t be inaccurate.
Tyson fury can’t fight? I’m sure they have some settled rules for their arranged fights just as do all players of fighting games.
Enough did that they are significant in the fraudulent roofing and paving scam, although more in the southeast and mid Atlantic states. They are the ones who’ll paint an old lady’s driveway black for a couple of thousand.
Charming folks altogether.
Irish Travellers did immigrate to the US in the 18th century. Exact numbers are hard to come by but I think it’s estimated there are 10-25,000 Travellers in the US. They seem to be clustered in the South. There’s a well known community in South Carolina and one in Texas.
The womenfolk stay home and raise the kids. The men stay home in the winter but in the warmer months they take to the road. They travel around doing various construction jobs, asphalt driveway paving or sealcoating, roofing, grain bin or barn painting.
Like Gypsies, they seem to have a reputation for dishonesty. Some people who hire a Traveller construction crew are happy with their work; others complain of shoddy worksmanship, inferior materials etc.
I’ve heard worse from proud Irish people when they make self-destructive jokes.
Anyone, like her, who says the following can’t be all bad:
“Trump wants to finish these wars once and for all and focus on America and SAVE OUR MONEY,”
Irish Travellers are a particularly fascinating phenomenon.
Prior to the mid-1990s, Ireland was a sort of English speaking Iceland where non-whites (and, indeed, people who didn’t speak English as a first language) didn’t even add up to 1% of the population. This makes Ireland in the 20th century into a fascinating study in how a coherent white Anglo sub-culture isolated from the surrounding “vibrancy” which engulfed the US and the UK would fare: Would it turn into a European Vermont where the population, isolated from the actual squalid reality of living amongst the third world masses, would develop romantic fantasies about minorities it only ever saw on television being victimised by badwhites? Or would Ireland’s Catholicism do for the country what Mormonism did for Utah and turn the place into a ruggedly individualistic conservative isolate willing to stand aloof from international PC trends?
The answer (sadly) is that Ireland more or less went the way of Vermont and not Utah and I believe that Irish Travellers may have had quite a lot to do with the way Ireland went. As usual, there’s more than an iSteve theme or two nestled in this sad story.
Principally, as Steve points out, Anglo subcultures have a huge difficulty when it comes to standing up to fashionable intellectual trends from the UK and the US because nobody has to learn a second language to wire seamlessly into them. This meant that Ireland’s homegrown cognoscenti were able to plug themselves directly into trendy American and British leftist cultural mores. As in Vermont, because there was no domestic third world underclass in the country doing to Dublin, Cork and Limerick what the Warren Supreme Court did to Detroit, Baltimore and New York City, there was no natural opposition to to the culturally dominant worldview. This meant that, by the 1990s, even conservative Irish people had internalised far left views on race as a cultural norm.
However, unlike Vermont, Ireland did not have a steady stream of refugees from “diverse” metropolitan areas like Howard Dean or Bernie Sanders who were eager to bring with them the mores of the places that they were escaping. This meant that, in spite of our elite’s best efforts, Ireland’s muscle of white ethnomasochism might have atrophied. This is where the Travellers came in.
Up until the mid-20th century, these communities weren’t really all that dysfunctional (although they must have had the usual problems that afflict nomads everywhere and they were and are inbred as hell) but then the dramatic fall in the price of kitchen utensils and regional transit effectively destroyed their economic niche – an occupation known as “tinkering”, which involved travelling from village to village repairing pots and pans.
As if this wasn’t bad enough, Travellers were generally reliant on people’s willingness to allow them to periodically use land on a rent-free basis. As occupiers’ liability laws made landowners more and more responsible for injuries occurring on their properties, as public liability insurance became more expensive and necessary and as the fall-off in tinkering business led travellers to engage in less salubrious (and legal) business lines that typically took advantage of the nomad’s ability to get out of dodge quickly, people became less willing to tolerate their presence on their land.
This created a model victim minority which the Irish establishment quickly turned into the blacks of Ireland – as usual, their dysfunctionality was a feature and not a bug as the worse they behaved, the less people liked them; the less people liked them the more the establishment coddled them; the more the establishment coddled them, the worse they behaved; the worse they behaved, the less people liked them (either a vicious or benign cycle, depending on one’s point of view). A good example of Irish officialdom’s love affair with Travellers was Jim Sheridan’s 1992 movie Into the West, starring Gabriel Byrne, which portrayed Travellers as a peaceful community of oppressed accordion players being persecuted by the police and other arms of officialdom which, in real life, treated Travellers with humiliating obsequy.
Nowhere was Traveller behaviour worse than in bars and hotels and the antics that took place at Traveller weddings entered the annals of infamy. When the Equal Status Act 2000 made it illegal for hotels and bars to discriminate against Travellers, an early warning system had to develop amongst the owners of rural bars and hotels whereby, on the day a local Traveller family sought to book a hotel for a wedding, that hotel would close down and inform all of its competitors and thus every hotel in town would follow suit. The result is that whole towns have no open hotels or pubs on the days of local Traveller weddings to avoid either discrimination suits, on the one hand, or mayhem, on the other.
Ireland’s conservative political movements, meanwhile, have tended to heavily centre around the Catholic Church and this has given the Travellers their second ace in the pack. Travellers are the most uniformly and dogmatically socially conservative and religiously observant community in Catholic Ireland. In a town with a 10% Traveller population, Travellers will make up 50% of the Sunday Mass attendance. This means that the Catholic hierarchy (especially in times when the population at large has become less religious) always had their backs and endorsed the official line with respect to their “oppression”.
The extent to which Travellers became the Irish blacks is even mirrored in the evolution of new linguistic norms sprouting up with every generation:
1. Travellers used to be known as “Tinkers” (on account of their business of tinkering) but that was suddenly and for no obvious reason deemed “racist”.
2. The acceptable term became “Itinerants”. This term too became unacceptable for no obvious reason – my own suspicion is that Travellers, who tend to have very limited vocabularies, didn’t understand what the word meant and were humiliated by it.
3. The current favoured word is “Traveller” but there is an extant attempt to create a new term “Member of the Travelling Community” but, a bit like phasing out “black” in favour of “African American”, the new term is a bit too verbose for Travellers themselves to adopt it.
Much like blacks in pre-Giuliani New York, Traveller behaviour eventually became so outrageous that the community became an embarrassment to the establishment – Irish Travellers even had their equivalent to the OJ Simpson falling from grace moment when a Traveller was shot dead by a farmer who was acquitted on the grounds of self defence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_John_Ward).
Of course, by then, the Irish establishment didn’t need Travellers anymore due to (now two decades or more of) mass Third World immigration and (of course) the ever growing LGBTQWERTYUIOP acronym. However, I think that it’s entirely possible that the Travellers were instrumental in allowing the Irish to hone their skills in abject ethnomasochism at a time when they might have missed the boat due to their country’s slowness to catch onto international demographic trends. So depending on one’s perspective, we Irish owe them a debt of gratitude or quite the opposite. Needless to say, I think the latter.
Need that White Trashionalist guy to comment here, because England sure has ’em. And let’s be clear, these blokes are English by law, so any re-direction to some Irish boxer is irrelevant. In other news, I sure wish we had New Zealand’s deportation rules. You throw garbage on the ground and act all chavvy, out you go on the next flight.
It is the sorry plight of the Travellers that every term assigned to describe them eventually becomes associated in the public mind with thievery. It is about time for another name change. That will fix the problem.
Indeed! I like this point, it shows how political correctness accidentally highlights issues.
The more times the name has changed the more “problematic” the group described are.
Idiots are a good example. While they can have superior moral values, and human value, it is obviously not the better option if everything is kept constant, even while they are idiots through no fault of their own. Anyway:
As introduced by S.G. Howe (1846), simpleton was intended to mean people with mild intellectual disability. However, it never fully entered the worldwide medical community’s terminology. The term was later replaced by “moron.”
Moron was an invented word. A psychologist named Henry Goddard developed the term. It was used to classify people with mild intellectual disabilities. Goddard created the novel word by combining parts of words like sophomore and oxymoron. The term was used to replace feeble-minded. Feebleminded was misused by society to refer to people with any severity of ID.
Feeble-minded came from the Latin word flebilis. It means, “to be lamented.” It referred to people who were not profoundly disabled, but still required intervention and care.
Retarded comes from the Latin retardare. This means, “to make slow, delay, keep back, or hinder.” The first record of the word “retarded” in relation to developmental delay was in 1895. The term retarded was used to replace terms like idiot, moron, and imbecile. This was because it was not a derogatory term at that time. However, by the 1960s, the term became a word used to insult someone.
What is it now “mentally challenged?” However you rename it, it will not maintain even neutral connotations. People don’t want to be like stupid people are.
No, it's Tyrion 2.
Usage:
Check out the Pikey. What a moronic, anhedonic, Tyrion 2.
As an aside, some of the most beautiful women I have ever seen have been Irish Travellers. I couldn’t say how well they age, hard living and hard booze and all that. A friend and I got wrapped up in a Traveller wedding reception years ago in a hotel north of Dublin. We headed for the sounds of music and came upon a back room full of cigarette smoke and guitar music. I copped on pretty quick, but my buddy had no idea. Luckily he could sing and play guitar and we got a pretty good welcome. A roomful of those girls dressed for a wedding would have straightened the gay population of San Francisco.
I must admit, the life they live is not without its attractions. Steal a 100 with a gun and they lock you up, steal a 100 million with a pen and some lawyers and you get a presidential pardon or an ambassadorship.
Who are the marks?
I am gonna assume that Mrs Sailer does the cooking in the family, and keeps her hubby in ignorant bliss about how things work around the kitchen.
Nice hair, Azealia. It must take some good genes to grow it. Are the plastic clips holding it on all natural too?
1) Peripateticism cultures virulence via horizontal transmission.
2) Professional boxing is virulent pornography. It is one, in an armory of such psychological weapons targeting European sexuality. Understand this armory and you are on the road to not only defending against, but counter-attacking the destruction of the white race. This has roots 600 million years old in male intrasexual selection. After a 6 million year overlay of eusocial evolution starting with CHLCA gang formation, sexuality — real sexuality — experienced an evolutionary instauration during the Paleolithic expansion of Cro Magnon into Europe. It was the recognition of this evolutionary direction as moral that led to the moral superiority of Europeans among all races. That morality is the culture of individual integrity born in the harsh winter conflicts over hunting territory between individual heads of nuclear family households consisting of a man, a woman, their children and their dogs. Such mutual hunts instaurated the 600 million year deep sexuality. It is the sexual perversion of such mutual hunts into, not only “boxing”, but any appeal of last resort in dispute processing that does not pit two individuals embedded in nature against each other using tools/weapons they have been trained from birth to fabricate and use/wield themselves as individuals.
I’ve received endless mockery over this perception of the essence of Euroman’s heritable moral superiority, born of the culture of individual integrity — the conscious recognition of sacral sexuality. Such mockery is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowery_Boyshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBprv80JmdMThe mangling of English was a running joke:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6IwcnZlh2Yetc.
German scholars during the National Socialist period were working with some urgency to preserve the soon-to-disappear history of Jewish culture in Europe. Today, the history of the Irish on their island needs to be recorded before their impending cultural replacement through demographic transformation (the fastest in Europe?). See
https://gatesofvienna.net/2019/01/irelands-ruination-by-cultural-tsunami/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvXojb-lCdQ
The problem is that the police in Ireland do not enforce the law. Instead, the police make appeals to mutual good will and social conformity. Travelers reject society and have their own code of behavior so they get away with things that should never be tolerated.
It is hard not to respect Tyson Fury. He has been on the bottom, fought his way to the top, fell back down to the darkest place possible, but managed to crawl back up again. A charismatic and soulful dude.
Heart of a Lion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNZtibrPo0g
Travelers racing horses on the motorway in Ireland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuMS3WRGIvQ
I don’t think I’ll ever say anything bad about black people again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvXojb-lCdQ
The problem is that the police in Ireland do not enforce the law. Instead, the police make appeals to mutual good will and social conformity. Travelers reject society and have their own code of behavior so they get away with things that should never be tolerated.
It is hard not to respect Tyson Fury. He has been on the bottom, fought his way to the top, fell back down to the darkest place possible, but managed to crawl back up again. A charismatic and soulful dude.
Heart of a Lion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNZtibrPo0g
Travelers racing horses on the motorway in Ireland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuMS3WRGIvQ
Yeah, the lower-order Irish and horses. NSFW:
One thing they’re not is poor. Twelve air fares from Britain to New Zealand must cost a fortune.
On Disability support Pension since he left school, he spends his days riding his mountain bike past the ATMs looking for cash that people have neglected to take.
Scouting for I-Phones and other valuables laying around is another money maker.
He'll take the item to the Police Station and have himself recorded as the finder.
If the item isn't claimed within a fixed time, Tinker gets to keep it.
Occasionally getting knocked off his bike by motorists is also a shakedown opportunity.
He sold drugs before he moved in next door to me, but gave it away aged c.40, because he was tired of going to gaol.
Still plenty of Tinkers around, they live in houses now and sell drugs on consignment.
As another commenter opined, I definitely wouldn't mess with them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLH29M1Isvk
Holy shit this dude is awesomeness incarnate
I don’t think so, but Jimmy Connors is reputed to be the descendant of Travellers.
The largest group of Travellers outside of Ireland are located in N0rth Augusta, SC. There are a couple of documentaries on YouTube about them you can watch, which were news reports that played on national TV back in the 80’s, I believe.
I’ve driven through their “village” many times, as they live in one area, known as Murphy’s Village. The homes are distinctive, ornate to the point of being gaudy, with a statue of Mary being the centerpiece to the front of every home. The first time I drove through I noticed several had all the windows covered with aluminum foil on the inside, and seemed to be abandonded, though they were obviously brand new. Some were not quite finished. One story I got was that it was a ritual that they wouldn’t live in a home for a year after it was built, but I think they just seal them up tight before they hit the road every year.
Most live in Murphy’s Village in the Winter months only. In the Spring they have a big party, then pack up their pick-ups and “caravans” and hit the road to work as contractors in the warm months. They used to do all sorts of odd jobs, such as house painting, where many say they were known for using the lowest quality of paints available, and thinning that as much as possible. I never met anyone satisfied with a Traveller paint job. They also used to make chairs, rocking chairs in particular, and sell them on the roadside. They were never known as being of any quality whatsoever. So they would leave their homes and go out and scam for nine months, then go home and marry their underage cousins and nieces.
This last was the subject of an investigation that I never heard or read of the resolution to. Girls as young as 12 and 13 were married off to older relatives in a large festival every year; it was said to be an old Irish Traveller tradtion.
All that being said, I haven’t been through Murphy’s Village in a couple of decades, nor have I seen or heard much about the Travellers since.
30 years is a pretty long generation, no? Particularly if you’re talking about people who behave a lot like Gypsies, whose girls seem to be in the habit of getting pregnant when they’re like 14? Plus, women famously used to die in childbirth all the time. If you dial the average generation back to 25 or even less, the difference adds up pretty quickly.
In other words, I’m not sure the study’s math is grounded in Tinker reality. If I’m right, the divergence was significantly more recent.
Despite breaking almost any law without a care they still have very conservative ideas about family life
If I recall, a few decades ago the Irish toyed with some laws aimed at coercing the Travellers to quit their itinerant ways (and to mitigate the crime wave arising from their wake). Things like compulsory schooling for children and the like.
One larger faction in Irish society seems to have regarded Travellers in a somewhat condescending manner, much like how elements of the left have romanticized Native American Indians and excused their bad behavior. There was also the belief prior to widespread DNA analysis that Travellers were “Pre-Celtic” and the original inhabitants of Hibernia displaced by Celtic migration to the British Isles. (Note how this is again very similar to the American Indian story).
Who are the least-mixed descendants of the Celts? They once covered Spain to Scotland to Bulgaria. Only the Greeks and early Romans were able to resist them.
The Irish, especially away from the English Pale, would be the obvious candidate. But while culturally more Celtic, they may have mixed with Germanic populations (Normans, Danes, English) more than Galicians in NW Iberia.
I read somewhere that the retreating Celtic populations of central Europe ended up favoring Czechia before being Slavicized.
It’s a terrible situation in rural areas in England. They can camp as long as they want in someone’s land trash it up and be a nuisance. Farmers can’t even evict them to plant. So they lose that field for the entire season. And if the gypsies choose to set up their camp in a growing crop? Too bad farmer. gypsies can camp where they wish.
Yes , South Carolina , you don’t want them doing any home repairs !
Are these the people famous for running scams on old people by telling them they need their roof painted, or their driveway re-coated, and then doing a terrible job?
Are they known for doing things like “finding” a hair in their food at a restaurant and then refusing to pay?
Are they absolutely unshameable?
Do they happen to turn up at places like construction sites and offer to sell you some speakers their boss has told them to make a quick sale on?
These people might call themselves Travellers but no wonder other people tend to call them gypsies. Seems like the same kind of basic mind set
I think it’s the littering that really makes people hate them. Normal people find blatant littering to be totally disgusting.
Full disclosure here, IMHO Azealia Banks actually seems like she’d be a blast to hang out with, preferably in a place with a lot of easily-accessible hard liquor. She’s genuinely nuts, but in a fascinating/hilarious way. The fact that the media has deemed her ‘problematic’ is just icing on the cake.
Also, apparently her rant may be grounds for her arrest as it’s been deemed racist. Silly micks, don’t they know that you can’t be racist against white people? Smdh, fam. It’s 2019!
They con elderly people by getting them to overpay massively for repair work.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/family-who-lost-seven-members-to-suicide-plead-for-mental-health-services-1.3654896
https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/others/irish-schizophrenia-stalking-madness
Yes Travelers are as uber-Irish, red hair a la little Orphan Annie is associated with Travelers in Ireland. The Island’s Catholic population have on average a lot of the genes that make Fury mentally unstable unable to stop eating and drinking. He lost a massive amount of weight for the comeback but that weakened him. His trainer does not know what he is doing (I know that drugs were probabally used as in all pro sports now).
There’s bands of them all over the US, but most settled in the South. In fact, there’s a town called Murphy Village in South Carolina that’s full of them.
It's quite interesting for a Western country's population (or any country's population) to be smaller today, on the same territory, than it was 200 years ago. Especially one as wealthy as it is, even at its poorest in recent memory.
When calculating the size of the Irish nation, one must take into account the enormous Irish diaspora. Ireland was very overpopulated 200 years ago, and the gorta mór and mass emigration helped to get the population down to a more manageable level. But far more ethnic Irish are around today worldwide, even if most of us have miscegenated with non-Irish.
After I submitted my comment I went and looked at what was available on YT. The link above is a drive-through of Murphy Village by a reporter for The State newspaper. You can see what I wrote about, even the brand new houses with foiled up windows where no one seems to live. It’s really odd.
There were plenty of videos about the Travelers brushes with the law, and their various scams. I’d forgotten about the flooring and driveway scams.
I couldn’t find a video about the child marriages, but there are several news stories about them. Here’s a link to one:
https://www.savannahnow.com/news/2016-10-09/irish-traveler-child-marriages-spark-controversy-augusta
I also remebered a movie from 1990 called The Field, starring Richard Harris. In the end of the movie Harris’ son falls in love with, and runs off with, a Tinker girl.
We have our very own Irish Travelers who are known for things like child marriage and construction scams. I haven’t heard anything about them since at least the 90s. Maybe they went legit or maybe they’ve been outcompeted in the race to the bottom.
Scrap metal was briefly an incredibly lucrative business.
One larger faction in Irish society seems to have regarded Travellers in a somewhat condescending manner, much like how elements of the left have romanticized Native American Indians and excused their bad behavior. There was also the belief prior to widespread DNA analysis that Travellers were "Pre-Celtic" and the original inhabitants of Hibernia displaced by Celtic migration to the British Isles. (Note how this is again very similar to the American Indian story).
I think that, after the Celts having lived in Ireland for more than 2,000 years, no one should be allowed to pull the “original inhabitants” card on the Celts. Then again, the chance of any pre-Celtic populations having remained even substantially, let alone entirely, unmixed with the Celts for 25 centuries is obviously zero.
You’re confusing honing and sharpening.
Honing: A honing steel basically pushes the edge of the knife back to the center and straightens it. It corrects the edge without shaving off much, if any, of the blade’s material. Honing doesn’t actually sharpen the knife, but if done properly, the knife will seem sharper because the blade is now in the proper position. Honing should be done often — some even hone before each use.
Sharpening: Sharpening, on the other hand, is a process where bits of the blade are ground and shaved off to produce a new, sharp edge. It can be done using a water stone, whetstone, or electric knife sharpener. Sharpening can be done less frequently than honing — just a few times a year depending on how much use the knife gets.
https://www.thekitchn.com/did-you-know-this-steel-doesnt-actually-sharpen-knives-211855
In the olden days with softer steels, one needed to strop or sharpen much more often. I doubt the Travellers worked on M390 or S110V alloys. Ever see old time barbers? They stropped their blades for each customer and probably sharpened every week if not every day.
An edge will tend to fold over with use. Correct use of the steel stands the edge up again.
The whetstone is used to erase tiny gaps in the edge, and to create a new edge.
The grindstone is used to hollow grind the blade when repeated honing has worn down the height of the blade to a thicker cross section.
Once upon a time, kitchen knives were carbon steel. That stuff's pretty hard.
Grandma used to steel/hone by slapping 2 knives against each other before use.
That's pretty effective.
Over time, a feather edge is created. Eventually, that edge is worn down, and what she had left was rounded and dull.
That's where the tinker and his grindstone came in handy.
It is the sorry plight of the Travellers that every term assigned to describe them eventually becomes associated in the public mind with thievery. It is about time for another name change. That will fix the problem.
I wonder why the word “drifter” hasn’t been PC’d to something less offensive . Maybe “tourist of no fixed abode” ?
Murphy Village in South Carolina is a stronghold of old-school Tinkers. They are associated with scams involving paving and roof sealing. White Settlement in Texas is another place where Tinkers hail from. Back in the ’80s the cops in my hometown would periodically issue warnings about “gypsies” coming to town. I think they were less likely Roma thieves, and more likely Tinker thieves.
There are of course assimilated, non-thieving people of Tinker ancestry. But that sort of begs the question, what makes you a Tinker, the ancestry or the thieving.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveller_(1997_film)
I posted this in another thread some time ago . I believe it’s a real thing . Good movie too .
Maybe the local community did a gofund me thing for 12 one way tickets to the farthest destination from England they could find . Next stop Pitcairn Island .
‘Cuz it’s always time for a visit to the hallowed pages of that literary icon, Viz, I give you “The Thieving Gypsy Bastards.”
http://www.pigeonsnest.co.uk/stuff/thieving-gypsy-bastards.html
One larger faction in Irish society seems to have regarded Travellers in a somewhat condescending manner, much like how elements of the left have romanticized Native American Indians and excused their bad behavior. There was also the belief prior to widespread DNA analysis that Travellers were "Pre-Celtic" and the original inhabitants of Hibernia displaced by Celtic migration to the British Isles. (Note how this is again very similar to the American Indian story).
They were never thought of as pre Celtic. A number of the family groups have English surnames hence the idea they were foreign to Ireland.
Bill Paxton and Mark Wahlberg were in a movie about Irish Traveler con artists in the American South:
Are New Zealanderians annoyed that nobody can mention New Zealand without mentioning Lord of the Rings?????
If you cut out all the horror scenes from the movie Braindead/Dead Alive you have a beautiful advertisement for traveling to New Zealand. Especially the scenes where the main guy travels through the town.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLH29M1Isvk
For such a great lump of a man, he’s got a surprisingly high-pitched voice. But then, so does Mike Tyson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvXojb-lCdQ
The problem is that the police in Ireland do not enforce the law. Instead, the police make appeals to mutual good will and social conformity. Travelers reject society and have their own code of behavior so they get away with things that should never be tolerated.
It is hard not to respect Tyson Fury. He has been on the bottom, fought his way to the top, fell back down to the darkest place possible, but managed to crawl back up again. A charismatic and soulful dude.
Heart of a Lion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNZtibrPo0g
Travelers racing horses on the motorway in Ireland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuMS3WRGIvQ
They also like a wedding. Receptions after Traveller weddings are some of the most dangerous places on Earth.
Interesting. It turns out that another Furey, the famous Irish piper Finbar Furey, is also a Traveller.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finbar_Furey
is quite funny.
So New Zealanders, even with the antics of Maori, have it so good that they actually can deport vacationers for such awful crimes as allegedly stealing a Christmas tree from a gas station and creating a disturbance as a fast food joint?
Their heads might explode when they encounter Numinous Negroes by the tens of thousands.
Adam Smith was of course was reputedly kidnapped as a toddler by gypsies but there seems to be some uncertainty about this. Travellers/tinkers had a reputation, perhaps unfounded, for stealing children.
In other words, I'm not sure the study's math is grounded in Tinker reality. If I'm right, the divergence was significantly more recent.
I’m not sure how they did things back in the day, but today most Traveller girls don’t get pregnant until married and I don’t think the Catholic Church in Ireland or the UK would allow a 14 year old have a Church wedding
Despite breaking almost any law without a care they still have very conservative ideas about family life
“Gloomy and anhedonic.”
Steve has not even met me, yet he captured this genetic Irishman’s essence in three words. There is something to this description.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6636919/Traveller-family-caused-havoc-New-Zealand-lands-UK-moaning-holiday-hell.html
Steve left out the best part
The call out videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixFQUpLnr3E&frags=pl%2Cwn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJXnYG4it8w&frags=pl%2Cwn
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyH0BeckV6E&frags=pl%2Cwn
One larger faction in Irish society seems to have regarded Travellers in a somewhat condescending manner, much like how elements of the left have romanticized Native American Indians and excused their bad behavior. There was also the belief prior to widespread DNA analysis that Travellers were "Pre-Celtic" and the original inhabitants of Hibernia displaced by Celtic migration to the British Isles. (Note how this is again very similar to the American Indian story).
“widespread DNA analysis that Travellers were “Pre-Celtic”
Who are the least-mixed descendants of the Celts? They once covered Spain to Scotland to Bulgaria. Only the Greeks and early Romans were able to resist them.
The Irish, especially away from the English Pale, would be the obvious candidate. But while culturally more Celtic, they may have mixed with Germanic populations (Normans, Danes, English) more than Galicians in NW Iberia.
I read somewhere that the retreating Celtic populations of central Europe ended up favoring Czechia before being Slavicized.
I also would guess that many of those primarily descended from pre-Celts would have been semi-nomadic during the centuries of Celtic rule of the island. Celtic life, when stable, was based on farmland holdings. Wealth and especially status were bound up in owning land and producing the best livestock, and to a lesser degree the best crops. In such a society, those who were largely the defeated would either be some type of serf or some kind of semi-nomadic people.
Some historians/archeologists doubt this whole narrative. They doubt that there was an Iron Age Celtic "people" as distinct from a Celtic language group.
I suppose the new Ancient DNA studies might be consistent with such scepticism: most northern Europeans seem to be closely related, being the descendants principally of Bronze Age invaders from the Steppes.
Anyway, I found this interesting: "a general reaction against the conflation of sources from a wide range of places and dates to create a single, generic picture, and partly from differences between the people of the British Iron Age (never directly called Celtic in ancient sources) and their Continental neighbours. The attack on the Celtic model ... has also impacted across disciplines. ... The 'Celtic' adjective in languages, history and archaeology refers to entirely different sets of evidence which only partially overlap - speakers of what are now called Celtic languages did not necessarily all use what is now referred to as Celtic art or live in areas identified by the classical writers as Celtic. ... recent work suggesting that the origins of what are called Celtic languages lie not in central or eastern Europe but in western Europe, with their spread linked to archaeologically-attested Bronze Age phenomena such as Beakers and the Atlantic late Bronze Age (see papers in Cunliffe & Koch 2010). This debate has a long way to run, but it suggests that now the worst excesses of the pan-Celtic gloss can be recognised and avoided ..."
https://www.scottishheritagehub.com/content/82-celts-debate
Murphy’s Village, just outside Augusta*, is a hive of ’em.
They’ve a solid presence in the southeastern F.U.S.A., where they get up to what you’d reckon they get up to:
https://www.wrdw.com/content/news/Nineteen-Irish-travelers-accused-of-racketeering-fraud-enter-not-guilty-pleas-391759251.html
*Not sure how much they contribute to golf-course architecture….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLH29M1Isvk
The guy had some sense knocked into him at some point.
The more times the name has changed the more "problematic" the group described are.
Idiots are a good example. While they can have superior moral values, and human value, it is obviously not the better option if everything is kept constant, even while they are idiots through no fault of their own. Anyway:
As introduced by S.G. Howe (1846), simpleton was intended to mean people with mild intellectual disability. However, it never fully entered the worldwide medical community's terminology. The term was later replaced by "moron."
Moron was an invented word. A psychologist named Henry Goddard developed the term. It was used to classify people with mild intellectual disabilities. Goddard created the novel word by combining parts of words like sophomore and oxymoron. The term was used to replace feeble-minded. Feebleminded was misused by society to refer to people with any severity of ID.
Feeble-minded came from the Latin word flebilis. It means, "to be lamented." It referred to people who were not profoundly disabled, but still required intervention and care.
Retarded comes from the Latin retardare. This means, "to make slow, delay, keep back, or hinder." The first record of the word "retarded" in relation to developmental delay was in 1895. The term retarded was used to replace terms like idiot, moron, and imbecile. This was because it was not a derogatory term at that time. However, by the 1960s, the term became a word used to insult someone.
What is it now "mentally challenged?" However you rename it, it will not maintain even neutral connotations. People don't want to be like stupid people are.
What is it now “mentally challenged?”
No, it’s Tyrion 2.
Usage:
Check out the Pikey. What a moronic, anhedonic, Tyrion 2.
First, aggrieved black Americans think of Jews as “super whites” then Steve Sailer posits Travellers as “super Irish”. There’s probably some truth to this as it relates to the Ashkenazi. What do black people think of white people? Nerdy, unsporty, can’t dance, intelligent, have more money, inauthentic, corny/schmaltzy, pale – sounds like a New York Bar Mitzvah. What do foreigners think of Irish? Drunk, fighting, inarticulate, family-friendly, humourous, musical – sounds like what Irish think of Travellers.
Interesting comparison, especially since both populations were partly formed by “boiling off”.
Obviously generalisations are not true in all cases, but I think pretty much everyone holds the above impressions.
The Irish are known as being very articulate-kind of like how blacks are more emotive (except when the Irish use 10 dollar words they do so correctly).
What’s left of "I.N.'s" are scattered around the east and southeast coast, and the includes occasional roving bands of Irish Travellers, or as I'd refer to them, "Super Irish N's." They’re everything bad about the Irish, squared, and NO fucking shame. They travel around the Carolina's trying to convince your grandma that the roof of her house is about to collapse, and offer to fix it like new, and paint the house for a thousand dollars with a five hundred dollar down payment, which they collect from grandma and are never seen again.
I suspect that cameras always at the ready these days means the Travellers days are numbered, except in relatively remote rural areas. The Travellers activities in New Zealand was covered play-by-play by concerned citizens. Every stupid thing they did was memorialized. Social guerrilla tactics require obfuscation and that’s going to get harder for them as time and camera tech goes forward.
We'll still have Irish N-words for generations to come. It’ll take a loooong time for them to die out. Not so for the Irish Travellers. They’ll have to dramatically reign in their game, or rot in jail.
Living the dream. https://www.google.com/amp/www.thejournal.ie/irish-travellers-america-1039464-Aug2013/%3famp=1
Also see Pussyhats' Travelling Menstrual Show
Sorry, Reactionry, I’ve GOTTA steal that last sentence and store it in my verbal arsenal!
-But "ulster"?
Please excuse the shameless self-referencing in dredging up a reply on the Jan. 1 (?) "Non Playing Character, 300 AD" thread:
Non-Playing Color: St. Patrick's Day
Orange Bad
Interesting comparison, especially since both populations were partly formed by "boiling off".
Obviously generalisations are not true in all cases, but I think pretty much everyone holds the above impressions.
What is it about this imbecile that you find so attractive that you keep selectively posting him, Steve?
Everyone else will sit there in silence, force a sign of appreciation from themselves and then, as you leave, roll their eyes before starting a joke at your expense that will run all evening.
Here we go again
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/could-california-produce-soon-cost-you-more-farms-face-labor-shortages-immigration-woes/ar-BBSNijI?ocid=spartanntp
Could California elect 2 GOP US Senators? Much more likely than the barren shelves they threaten us with.
http://appalachianmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Possum-5.jpg
Only if, after immigration restriction and a subsequent labor shortage, I buy produce from farms, which experience an increase in labor cost due to the law of supply and demand and pass the increase on to the consumer.
I prefer to buy produce from restaurants, which experience increases in labor cost due to legislative fiat ("Fight for 15!"), and therefore do not pass the increase on to the consumer.
There are a lot of state prisons youth authority facilities and county jails in Ca. Maybe the farmers could use the prisoners in chain gangs.
He said fight, not box.
The Irish have always tended to gloomy poetic s. Travel we typed don’t form massive strings of monasteries around the British isles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvXojb-lCdQ
The problem is that the police in Ireland do not enforce the law. Instead, the police make appeals to mutual good will and social conformity. Travelers reject society and have their own code of behavior so they get away with things that should never be tolerated.
It is hard not to respect Tyson Fury. He has been on the bottom, fought his way to the top, fell back down to the darkest place possible, but managed to crawl back up again. A charismatic and soulful dude.
Heart of a Lion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNZtibrPo0g
Travelers racing horses on the motorway in Ireland.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuMS3WRGIvQ
Travelers like to race those buggies on the public highway over here too. If me and my friends tried that we would soon be arrested. When the poor oppressed People of Caravan do it, nothing happens. They know and we know that we just have to suck it up and crawl along behind them.
One larger faction in Irish society seems to have regarded Travellers in a somewhat condescending manner, much like how elements of the left have romanticized Native American Indians and excused their bad behavior. There was also the belief prior to widespread DNA analysis that Travellers were "Pre-Celtic" and the original inhabitants of Hibernia displaced by Celtic migration to the British Isles. (Note how this is again very similar to the American Indian story).
My impression is that the Irish regard the Travelers in much the same way the British do and have tried various policies to assimilate them. These days the only allowable policy seems to be outright cucking.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/could-california-produce-soon-cost-you-more-farms-face-labor-shortages-immigration-woes/ar-BBSNijI?ocid=spartanntpCould California elect 2 GOP US Senators? Much more likely than the barren shelves they threaten us with.
California farm owner: “I am a social liberal, but on economic issues I think the old ways are best.”
Interesting comparison, especially since both populations were partly formed by "boiling off".
Obviously generalisations are not true in all cases, but I think pretty much everyone holds the above impressions.
What people think of the Irish as inarticulate? That would be like thinking of Germans as fearful of math.
SNL writers reading iSteve!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Sld27PfAF3M
Starting around 1:30 “Judge Pirro” refernces Marie Kondo and says Guatemalan immigrants don’t “spark joy.”
Who are the least-mixed descendants of the Celts? They once covered Spain to Scotland to Bulgaria. Only the Greeks and early Romans were able to resist them.
The Irish, especially away from the English Pale, would be the obvious candidate. But while culturally more Celtic, they may have mixed with Germanic populations (Normans, Danes, English) more than Galicians in NW Iberia.
I read somewhere that the retreating Celtic populations of central Europe ended up favoring Czechia before being Slavicized.
That is my guess about Irish Travellers: genetically, they are primarily pre-Celtic, meaning the peoples who built the ancient monuments. As the English destroyed the Irish clan structure, those who became Travellers were the left out, the totally dispossessed of the dispossessed.
I also would guess that many of those primarily descended from pre-Celts would have been semi-nomadic during the centuries of Celtic rule of the island. Celtic life, when stable, was based on farmland holdings. Wealth and especially status were bound up in owning land and producing the best livestock, and to a lesser degree the best crops. In such a society, those who were largely the defeated would either be some type of serf or some kind of semi-nomadic people.
Twenty years ago my wife and I were in Greencastle, Donegal and there was a duo playing at the tiny pub downstairs from the place we were staying. At the time, the pub musicians in the area came across as participants in impromptu jam sessions – they’d sit among the audience and play without sound systems (it’s the Irish style to sing very loud.) The duo did American Pie and I remember being impressed. They were only in their late teens, but doing American songs from 25 years earlier in cool accents. And they obviously loved what they were doing. (It was a sing along, too.)
Sounds like their family tree is a palm tree.
There’s an Irish Traveller community in South Carolina and elsewhere in the South. They’re small in numbers and fly under the radar. They’re involved in various scams, a lot of minor scale ones targeting senior citizens and suburbanites like driveway paving scams where they pave a driveway with fake material (basically paint) that dries away in a few days after they’ve already skipped town. But they’re now also apparently involved in more sophisticated insurance scams that involve murder:
“Court hears inner workings of SC Irish Travelers’ multimillion-dollar insurance scam”
https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article222781445.html
“SC Irish Travelers linked to $1 million murder-for-hire scheme in Texas”
https://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article214280464.html
Push through the alcoholic haze and post some more music videos, like the embarrassing, drunk uncle who slurs enthusiastically while forcing you to watch his “ultimate YouTube playlist.”
Everyone else will sit there in silence, force a sign of appreciation from themselves and then, as you leave, roll their eyes before starting a joke at your expense that will run all evening.
I have some Irish ancestry; I love the Irish; but not all of them.
I don’t love Leprechaun bastards such as Joe Biden, John Brennan, James Comey or any other blarney boy bullshit artist who attacks the historic American nation.
My grandmother was the daughter of a Givens and a Sullivan. I like the singer and musician Lucinda Williams and my great grandmother was named Lucinda Sullivan. Must be a Southern thing.
The internet says my ancestor John Sullivan was born in Ireland in 1718 or thereabouts and croaked in North Carolina about 1804.
The Sullivans married Damerons, Humphries, Lampleys, Greens and others.
There is a tremendous difference between Irish people who came to colonial America and the Irish who came to the United States in great waves starting in the 1840s.
Interesting comparison, especially since both populations were partly formed by "boiling off".
Obviously generalisations are not true in all cases, but I think pretty much everyone holds the above impressions.
‘inarticulate’
The Irish are known as being very articulate-kind of like how blacks are more emotive (except when the Irish use 10 dollar words they do so correctly).
American pro boxers would destroy Irish bare-knucklers in a boxing match. But those guys would destroy 99% of bar room brawlers in a fight.
Everyone else will sit there in silence, force a sign of appreciation from themselves and then, as you leave, roll their eyes before starting a joke at your expense that will run all evening.
You post here about ten times as often as he does. Your inept hasbara is vastly more embarrassing than any drunk Irishman btw.
Is he imbecilic compared to the typically erudite Mensa-member heavyweight boxing champs? He’s an entertaining character and an amazing and unique fighter.
Imbecile? I think Tyrion 2 is a genius, combines his informative posts with humor.
Nowadays we have diamond abrasives and small electric sharpeners and so on, but in the old days knife sharpening was not considered a DIY activity. Knives were usually sharpened on a large pedal driven grindstone – this is not something most people owned or knew how to use. Extending up unto modern times there were itinerant knife sharpeners in NY and I think some establishments (meat packing plants, etc.) still have their knives sharpened by an outside professional service. As Tyrion says, this is distinct from steeling the edge on your knives, which is done more frequently and by the end user.
TBH, most homeowners might as well keep their knives on display because they are uselessly dull in 9 out of 10 homes that I visit. And a lot of these are rich people – they buy expensive German knives which are sharp when new but they never sharpen them again.
Tinkers (as the name implies) did other work beside knife sharpening. The main one was mending metal pots – fixing holes with solder, re-tinning the lining of copper pots (it’s toxic to cook acidic foods in raw copper but if you line the pot with a thin coating of tin then it is safe), knocking out dents, etc.
Tinkers also repaired metal roofs ((shoddy) roof repair is still a Traveller/Gypsy trade) and made useful and decorative items (pie tins, lampshades, etc.) out of tin plated steel. Unlike a blacksmith who needed a forge and a heavy anvil, the tools for tinkering were lightweight and could be transported in their caravans.
I’d rather invest in a big village whet stone than allow the tinker thieves near my village. Some stereotypes are true.
There a large number of Travellers here in Texas. They are extremely inbred, secretive, felonious, clannish and very dysfunctional. https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article15607130.html
“generation set at 30 years” is a high for Irish travelers. They tend to be grandparents by their early thirties.
They are actually very socially conservative in some ways – pre-marital sex is not allowed (for girls). The girls are usually married legally by 16.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLH29M1Isvk
Honest and Brave Irishman Tyson Fury:
God Bless Irishman Tyson Fury!
Tyson Fury makes me proud to have Irish blood!
Why can’t Leprechaun bastards like Joe Biden and John Brennan be more like Tyson Fury?
Joe Biden is a Leprechaun whore boy for the Israel First treasonites in the JEW/WASP ruling class of the American Empire.
The Irish are a tough and brave people that you want on your side. There must be millions of people of some Irish ancestry in the United States who reject treasonous rat Joe Biden and all the anti-White globalizer crap that he pushes.
Fly a family of twelve from England to New Zealand. That must cost a pretty penny. I thought these people were always up against it?
It was probably a Grumman van – these had sliding doors (and no air conditioning) so in the summer you usually drove around with the doors open (and no seat belts). This also helped to vent the smoke since people in those days smoked constantly. Those were the days.
Bought an old bread van for $900, it was straight propane so no one wanted it. Straight six Ford 300 engine, Ford transmission, it was not a Grumman but some other brand-a Utilimaster. I think it had a Ford built chassis. It was a great second/third car and very useful. I sold it to someone else and he promptly scrapped it because he was too stupid to keep it running. It was slow and noisy , hot in the summer, cold in the winter.
On nice spring and fall nights it was great for sleeping in the back of. Wish I'd never sold it.
Obligatory clip from “Snatch.”
In Guy Ritchie’s film “Snatch” Brad Pitt plays Mickey, a “Pikey” or Traveler bare-knuckle boxing champion who seems to warm-up only after getting beaten on for a bit:
Interesting comparison, especially since both populations were partly formed by "boiling off".
Obviously generalisations are not true in all cases, but I think pretty much everyone holds the above impressions.
I recall my father, who grew up on the east coast, occasionally used a form of description,”Irish N***er,” which didn’t ring any bells for me, having been born and raised in So. California. Not many Irish brogues in the Beach cities. Though there were some that worked the shipyards during the war, they didn’t stay put. When I moved to NYC, I discovered exactly what he was referring to. Not a bright or pleasant people, with some exceptions.
What’s left of “I.N.’s” are scattered around the east and southeast coast, and the includes occasional roving bands of Irish Travellers, or as I’d refer to them, “Super Irish N’s.” They’re everything bad about the Irish, squared, and NO fucking shame. They travel around the Carolina’s trying to convince your grandma that the roof of her house is about to collapse, and offer to fix it like new, and paint the house for a thousand dollars with a five hundred dollar down payment, which they collect from grandma and are never seen again.
I suspect that cameras always at the ready these days means the Travellers days are numbered, except in relatively remote rural areas. The Travellers activities in New Zealand was covered play-by-play by concerned citizens. Every stupid thing they did was memorialized. Social guerrilla tactics require obfuscation and that’s going to get harder for them as time and camera tech goes forward.
We’ll still have Irish N-words for generations to come. It’ll take a loooong time for them to die out. Not so for the Irish Travellers. They’ll have to dramatically reign in their game, or rot in jail.
Honing: A honing steel basically pushes the edge of the knife back to the center and straightens it. It corrects the edge without shaving off much, if any, of the blade’s material. Honing doesn’t actually sharpen the knife, but if done properly, the knife will seem sharper because the blade is now in the proper position. Honing should be done often — some even hone before each use.
Sharpening: Sharpening, on the other hand, is a process where bits of the blade are ground and shaved off to produce a new, sharp edge. It can be done using a water stone, whetstone, or electric knife sharpener. Sharpening can be done less frequently than honing — just a few times a year depending on how much use the knife gets.
https://www.thekitchn.com/did-you-know-this-steel-doesnt-actually-sharpen-knives-211855
No, I’m not. I strop/hone my knives weekly (sometimes daily if I’m hunting/cooking heavily). I sharpen monthly (sometimes weekly with heavy use). And I have fancy knives with extremely hard steel (modern powdered alloys).
In the olden days with softer steels, one needed to strop or sharpen much more often. I doubt the Travellers worked on M390 or S110V alloys. Ever see old time barbers? They stropped their blades for each customer and probably sharpened every week if not every day.
That wasn’t fighting either. It was two fat men sloppily imitating what they thought was boxing. In a real fight, there is no reset after clinching.
Steve:
The Daily Mail describes them as gypsies.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6632339/amp/British-traveller-family-say-SUE-mayor-declared-worse-pigs.html
It's quite interesting for a Western country's population (or any country's population) to be smaller today, on the same territory, than it was 200 years ago. Especially one as wealthy as it is, even at its poorest in recent memory.
The economic mismanagement during the first five decades of the republic meant that loads of young Irish left to seek their fortune elsewhere, so even with relatively high birthrates, the population didn’t grow as fast as you’d think it would.
It's quite interesting for a Western country's population (or any country's population) to be smaller today, on the same territory, than it was 200 years ago. Especially one as wealthy as it is, even at its poorest in recent memory.
Before the waves of Irish emigration to the United State, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, in search of better jobs and greener pastures.
The Daily Mail has described this family as gypsies.
The Irish Travellers are nothing like as bad as the Gypsies who, particularly in Poland and the Czech lands, are a dangerous bunch of thieves and cutthroats.
The Travellers one comes across in Ireland are quite gentle really: begging a bit, no doubt stealing more than a bit, but not particularly violent.
What is most distinctive about them is their smell: I once wandered into a run-down village in the heart of the country. When I finally had to stop to ask directions (always a hazardous occupation in Ireland at the best of times) I rolled down the car window and beckoned to a girl of around ten to come over. She did so … and the smell remains with me, vividly, to this day. It was powerful, deep, cloying; indeed, sweetness is the most powerful of the memories which remains. I recoiled, I hope not too obviously, smiled at the in any case unintelligible words of directional advice, and drove carefully (I certainly didn’t want to knock anyone down and annoy the adults) but speedily away.
I wondered later whether that smell was the historical norm for human beings who didn’t watch much, which means all of us.
No wonder the French and the Italians invented perfumes.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/could-california-produce-soon-cost-you-more-farms-face-labor-shortages-immigration-woes/ar-BBSNijI?ocid=spartanntpCould California elect 2 GOP US Senators? Much more likely than the barren shelves they threaten us with.
Could California produce soon cost you more?
Only if, after immigration restriction and a subsequent labor shortage, I buy produce from farms, which experience an increase in labor cost due to the law of supply and demand and pass the increase on to the consumer.
I prefer to buy produce from restaurants, which experience increases in labor cost due to legislative fiat (“Fight for 15!”), and therefore do not pass the increase on to the consumer.
Tinkers also repaired metal roofs ((shoddy) roof repair is still a Traveller/Gypsy trade) and made useful and decorative items (pie tins, lampshades, etc.) out of tin plated steel. Unlike a blacksmith who needed a forge and a heavy anvil, the tools for tinkering were lightweight and could be transported in their caravans.
Yikes. You like to damage your knives? For most people, ceramic stones/sticks are enough (I use Japanese water stones).
I was around 5 or 6 (early 1970’s) when my father taught me to strop a knife on a piece of leather and to sharpen a knife with a small rock and some spit – the way he was taught probably in the 1940’s (and the way it had been done for hundreds of years). Knife sharpening certainly was a DIY activity in most households where I was born. And it wasn’t difficult at all, because back then people used carbon or relatively soft stainless steel knives with low edge rentention (easy to dull, easy to sharpen).
Yes, grindstones were used to sharpen knives in large quantities, but most people took their knives to a grinder when they damaged their knives (chipped blades) or wanted to re-profile them to a different angle.
This is partly a result of people losing their hand-down manual skills, but also because of the rise of harder stainless steels. They retain edge much longer, but once dulled are harder to sharpen.
European cooking style is rougher on blades than, say, Japanese. German kitchen knives typically use softer stainless steels (formed thicker) than Japanese blades that tend to be thinner and much harder (which meant more brittle before the rise of powdered metal super steels) – and much more suited for slicing. As a result, expensive or not, German kitchen knives typically require more frequent sharpening, but are more robust to abuse.
Honing: A honing steel basically pushes the edge of the knife back to the center and straightens it. It corrects the edge without shaving off much, if any, of the blade’s material. Honing doesn’t actually sharpen the knife, but if done properly, the knife will seem sharper because the blade is now in the proper position. Honing should be done often — some even hone before each use.
Sharpening: Sharpening, on the other hand, is a process where bits of the blade are ground and shaved off to produce a new, sharp edge. It can be done using a water stone, whetstone, or electric knife sharpener. Sharpening can be done less frequently than honing — just a few times a year depending on how much use the knife gets.
https://www.thekitchn.com/did-you-know-this-steel-doesnt-actually-sharpen-knives-211855
You’re still wrong.
An edge will tend to fold over with use. Correct use of the steel stands the edge up again.
The whetstone is used to erase tiny gaps in the edge, and to create a new edge.
The grindstone is used to hollow grind the blade when repeated honing has worn down the height of the blade to a thicker cross section.
Once upon a time, kitchen knives were carbon steel. That stuff’s pretty hard.
Grandma used to steel/hone by slapping 2 knives against each other before use.
That’s pretty effective.
Over time, a feather edge is created. Eventually, that edge is worn down, and what she had left was rounded and dull.
That’s where the tinker and his grindstone came in handy.
Japanese knives with VG 10 steel and 15 degree grind angles – this is a very elite end of the market and not typical. Even decent German knives (Wusthof) are not typical. Most people at home still use stamped Ecko knives from the grocery store that are just as crappy as ever and they grind them to nothingness with the sharpener on their can opener if they sharpen them at all. It’s a horror show. I don’t know how they cook except most of them don’t cook unless heating up frozen food counts as cooking.
I find that thinness is very beneficial in a knife – all things being equal the thinner knife will cut easier. This is (in part) what makes the cheap stamped Victorinox knives so good (and nothing stops you from sharpening a Victorinox to 15 degrees). But you can’t use a thin knife with an Asian profile edge as a meat cleaver or can opener or to pry open stuck drawers or god knows what else people do to abuse their knives (but it will slice thru vegetables like crazy). Whereas, as you say, a thick forged German chef’s knife will cut thru bones and take some abuse.
Higher end Japanese stainless steel knives typically use some variant of Takefu SG2, Hitachi ZDP-189, etc. SG2, for example, is made from powdered metal, and can easily achieve 64HRC while being less brittle than VG10 at 59 HRC. You can grind that thing to about 10-12 degrees, polish the heck out of it, and it will slice things near-microscopically.
And let’s not even go to old-style single bevel Japanese carbon knives that are truly, scary-sharp. Those things go 65HRC and up.
Also see Pussyhats' Travelling Menstrual Show
Ha, Reactionary, I’m gonna do the same as Mr. Ulster, though I’ll at least ask you first … before I steal it.
Or: Me and Me 72 Houris?Please don't bother asking and thanks for the LOL.
And please feel free to "steal" the following even if you haven't thought of them already -"Achmed" might like
What, Me Houri?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HouriA Yiddish Alfred E. Neuman need not worry about
What, Me Tsuris?https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tsuris
There still is a knife sharpener that drives around in a van in Brooklyn during the Summer. He clangs on metal to alert people of his presence and slow rolls down the block. It’s a pretty cool throwback, but I don’t know how much business he actually does.
For most people, Spyderco sharpmaker ($67 on Amazon right now) is all they’ll ever need, provided they sharpen reasonably frequently (more often than once or twice a year). If they let the apex of the blade get completely blunted, they’ll need something else.
The Travellers one comes across in Ireland are quite gentle really: begging a bit, no doubt stealing more than a bit, but not particularly violent.
What is most distinctive about them is their smell: I once wandered into a run-down village in the heart of the country. When I finally had to stop to ask directions (always a hazardous occupation in Ireland at the best of times) I rolled down the car window and beckoned to a girl of around ten to come over. She did so ... and the smell remains with me, vividly, to this day. It was powerful, deep, cloying; indeed, sweetness is the most powerful of the memories which remains. I recoiled, I hope not too obviously, smiled at the in any case unintelligible words of directional advice, and drove carefully (I certainly didn't want to knock anyone down and annoy the adults) but speedily away.
I wondered later whether that smell was the historical norm for human beings who didn't watch much, which means all of us.
No wonder the French and the Italians invented perfumes.
What is hazardous about asking for directions in Ireland?
>>But having no fixed abode seems to generate cultural problems, such as an irresponsible attitude toward littering and crime.
But they have some admirable qualities. 1) They don’t blaspheme the Catholic faith, which the current population of Ireland seems to revel in doing. They are quite devout, in their own way. 2) They are sexually continent. They marry young, but they stay married, and don’t carry on with pre-marital or extra-marital liaisons. If any community maintains just these two attributes they will not just survive but likely thrive.
I was last in Ireland about 10 years ago and you do encounter Tinkers camped out on the side of the road or in some vacant field, sometimes singularly or a group of them together. They seem to have the latest whiz bang technology and gadgetry that makes life on the road a bit more comfortable. And they don’t envy the settled population one bit. They consider themselves free; the rest of society endures a servile, pitiable existence.
I wouldn’t mess with them.
>>Did any significant number of Irish Travellers immigrate to the USA, and if so what do we know about them?
They ran/run old time carnivals. Not too much left of that bit of old weird America.
In the 1950s while serving in the Army, stationed at a camp down in Georgia, my father accompanied the post Catholic priest to an impromptu Mass that the Priest said for a group of Irish American Tinkers, camped out deep in a pine forest. These were hillbilly, redneck southern American Tinkers, been in this country for who knows how many generations, but they were still distinctively Irish and distinctively Catholic. Old weird America.
If your people make good boxers, then they will make unruly guests.
Azealia Banks is the most extreme illustration of a frequently observed tendency in black women: overcompensating for snow fever with Panther talk.
Before you use this as an excuse to start telling us, for the umpteenth time, about your extensive martial arts background, please know this: nobody gives a fuck.
Had a Tinker for a neighbour in a block of flats.
On Disability support Pension since he left school, he spends his days riding his mountain bike past the ATMs looking for cash that people have neglected to take.
Scouting for I-Phones and other valuables laying around is another money maker.
He’ll take the item to the Police Station and have himself recorded as the finder.
If the item isn’t claimed within a fixed time, Tinker gets to keep it.
Occasionally getting knocked off his bike by motorists is also a shakedown opportunity.
He sold drugs before he moved in next door to me, but gave it away aged c.40, because he was tired of going to gaol.
Still plenty of Tinkers around, they live in houses now and sell drugs on consignment.
As another commenter opined, I definitely wouldn’t mess with them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLH29M1Isvk
He’s a character, and he’d be far, far more famous if he wasn’t so outspoken about certain things. He doesn’t seem to care too much. He speaks his mind very freely.
Who are the least-mixed descendants of the Celts? They once covered Spain to Scotland to Bulgaria. Only the Greeks and early Romans were able to resist them.
The Irish, especially away from the English Pale, would be the obvious candidate. But while culturally more Celtic, they may have mixed with Germanic populations (Normans, Danes, English) more than Galicians in NW Iberia.
I read somewhere that the retreating Celtic populations of central Europe ended up favoring Czechia before being Slavicized.
“Who are the least-mixed descendants of the Celts? They once covered Spain to Scotland to Bulgaria.”
Some historians/archeologists doubt this whole narrative. They doubt that there was an Iron Age Celtic “people” as distinct from a Celtic language group.
I suppose the new Ancient DNA studies might be consistent with such scepticism: most northern Europeans seem to be closely related, being the descendants principally of Bronze Age invaders from the Steppes.
Anyway, I found this interesting: “a general reaction against the conflation of sources from a wide range of places and dates to create a single, generic picture, and partly from differences between the people of the British Iron Age (never directly called Celtic in ancient sources) and their Continental neighbours. The attack on the Celtic model … has also impacted across disciplines. … The ‘Celtic’ adjective in languages, history and archaeology refers to entirely different sets of evidence which only partially overlap – speakers of what are now called Celtic languages did not necessarily all use what is now referred to as Celtic art or live in areas identified by the classical writers as Celtic. … recent work suggesting that the origins of what are called Celtic languages lie not in central or eastern Europe but in western Europe, with their spread linked to archaeologically-attested Bronze Age phenomena such as Beakers and the Atlantic late Bronze Age (see papers in Cunliffe & Koch 2010). This debate has a long way to run, but it suggests that now the worst excesses of the pan-Celtic gloss can be recognised and avoided …”
https://www.scottishheritagehub.com/content/82-celts-debate
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/could-california-produce-soon-cost-you-more-farms-face-labor-shortages-immigration-woes/ar-BBSNijI?ocid=spartanntpCould California elect 2 GOP US Senators? Much more likely than the barren shelves they threaten us with.
Anon, Well, with overtime and a decent pay scale, they should be able to attract workers. Attract, not exploit.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Sld27PfAF3M
Starting around 1:30 "Judge Pirro" refernces Marie Kondo and says Guatemalan immigrants don't "spark joy."
https://brandinginasia.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Marie-Kondo-Branding-in-Asia.jpg
I’d thought that was supposedto be Kamala the Butcher; the constant shaking of the hair and transparetly phony earnestness seems to be a thing with her. Pirro should have had a more obnoxious, yelling voice.
Tinkers also repaired metal roofs ((shoddy) roof repair is still a Traveller/Gypsy trade) and made useful and decorative items (pie tins, lampshades, etc.) out of tin plated steel. Unlike a blacksmith who needed a forge and a heavy anvil, the tools for tinkering were lightweight and could be transported in their caravans.
Jack, There is an established company here in WNY, Povenelli, that provides knives to butchers and supermarkets and restaurants. They drop off a box of sharpened knives and pick up those to be sharpened. You can visit their shop and buy quality used knives. When I was a kid there was a man who went street to street sharpening knives, scissors, lawnmowers and shears. He had a cry-out song and a portable grinding wheel. We kids used to turn our trikes and bikes over, spin the pedal and pretend the spinning wheel was our sharpening stone.
Irish Travelers are basically a relic from medieval Europe, if you were to ever transport a group of people from middle age Europe to present day they would resemble the Travelers in their behavior.
The roofing scams run throughout the South and Midwest are mostly fine by roving band of Irish Travellers. NBC did a show on them once. Featuring their scams and arranged child marriages.
https://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/dateline-nbc/episode-884972/100110/
First Aired: May 22, 1996
Scheduled: A “Lie, Cheat & Steal” report on “Irish Travelers,” bands of alleged scammers who travel around the U.S. Included: hidden-camera footage. Lea Thompson is the correspondent.
Stop complaining man. At least he didnt say anything about the irish being stubby.
VG10 is pretty chippy at 15 degrees. It’s also a very ordinary steel nowadays. Every garden-variety imitation of basic Shun knives uses VG10 or some variant of it. And it’s not made from powdered metallurgy, so is not considered a “super steel.” You can get on Amazon now and find lots of Taiwanese-made blades with VG10.
Higher end Japanese stainless steel knives typically use some variant of Takefu SG2, Hitachi ZDP-189, etc. SG2, for example, is made from powdered metal, and can easily achieve 64HRC while being less brittle than VG10 at 59 HRC. You can grind that thing to about 10-12 degrees, polish the heck out of it, and it will slice things near-microscopically.
And let’s not even go to old-style single bevel Japanese carbon knives that are truly, scary-sharp. Those things go 65HRC and up.
Sometimes the cooking shows talk about knife skills. But they use stainless steel knives which can never be sharp enough for efficiency and speed.
I don't mind having to use the steel frequently - it only takes a few seconds. I don't want to pay $300 for a supersteel knife when a $30 Victorinox is perfectly adequate. If you have a $30 knife you don't mind grinding the edges if needed - I could grind thru 10 of them and still be ahead.
But to each his own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wYd8ylLf-c
A lot of those guys actually ruin the temper of the knives by high-speed grinding.
For most people, Spyderco sharpmaker ($67 on Amazon right now) is all they’ll ever need, provided they sharpen reasonably frequently (more often than once or twice a year). If they let the apex of the blade get completely blunted, they’ll need something else.
Tinkers also repaired metal roofs ((shoddy) roof repair is still a Traveller/Gypsy trade) and made useful and decorative items (pie tins, lampshades, etc.) out of tin plated steel. Unlike a blacksmith who needed a forge and a heavy anvil, the tools for tinkering were lightweight and could be transported in their caravans.
Tools needed sharping all the time; hoes sythes machetes saws shovels need constant sharpening plows harrows discs even tines of pitch forks and digging forks trowels all sorts of things. Most American farms had their own sharpening stone on a wheel thingee. Wooden wheels always had a metal covering wagons and carts had metal fittings.
I’d rather invest in a big village whet stone than allow the tinker thieves near my village. Some stereotypes are true.
https://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/dateline-nbc/episode-884972/100110/
First Aired: May 22, 1996
Scheduled: A "Lie, Cheat & Steal" report on "Irish Travelers," bands of alleged scammers who travel around the U.S. Included: hidden-camera footage. Lea Thompson is the correspondent.
Father in law was an insurance man. His trade magazines had numerous articles about the Irish travelers in the south who migrate north every spring.
What’s left of "I.N.'s" are scattered around the east and southeast coast, and the includes occasional roving bands of Irish Travellers, or as I'd refer to them, "Super Irish N's." They’re everything bad about the Irish, squared, and NO fucking shame. They travel around the Carolina's trying to convince your grandma that the roof of her house is about to collapse, and offer to fix it like new, and paint the house for a thousand dollars with a five hundred dollar down payment, which they collect from grandma and are never seen again.
I suspect that cameras always at the ready these days means the Travellers days are numbered, except in relatively remote rural areas. The Travellers activities in New Zealand was covered play-by-play by concerned citizens. Every stupid thing they did was memorialized. Social guerrilla tactics require obfuscation and that’s going to get harder for them as time and camera tech goes forward.
We'll still have Irish N-words for generations to come. It’ll take a loooong time for them to die out. Not so for the Irish Travellers. They’ll have to dramatically reign in their game, or rot in jail.
Perhaps this provides some context for the phrase, “No Irish need apply.”
But they have some admirable qualities. 1) They don't blaspheme the Catholic faith, which the current population of Ireland seems to revel in doing. They are quite devout, in their own way. 2) They are sexually continent. They marry young, but they stay married, and don't carry on with pre-marital or extra-marital liaisons. If any community maintains just these two attributes they will not just survive but likely thrive.
I was last in Ireland about 10 years ago and you do encounter Tinkers camped out on the side of the road or in some vacant field, sometimes singularly or a group of them together. They seem to have the latest whiz bang technology and gadgetry that makes life on the road a bit more comfortable. And they don't envy the settled population one bit. They consider themselves free; the rest of society endures a servile, pitiable existence.
How do they make a living?
Higher end Japanese stainless steel knives typically use some variant of Takefu SG2, Hitachi ZDP-189, etc. SG2, for example, is made from powdered metal, and can easily achieve 64HRC while being less brittle than VG10 at 59 HRC. You can grind that thing to about 10-12 degrees, polish the heck out of it, and it will slice things near-microscopically.
And let’s not even go to old-style single bevel Japanese carbon knives that are truly, scary-sharp. Those things go 65HRC and up.
Sabatier carbon steel and the little sharpening thing sabatier sells are the only decent knives. Stainless steel just never gets sharp enough for fast efficient cooking. My sister once timed me and my trusty sabatier carbon steel 8 inch chef knive. I minute and 40 seconds to cut a whole chicken into 9 pieces which included cutting out the back to save for stock.
Sometimes the cooking shows talk about knife skills. But they use stainless steel knives which can never be sharp enough for efficiency and speed.
You are not going to find better slicers than the single-bevel carbon knives made by any number of quality makers in Japan.That's complete nonsense. ANY steel knife, "stainless" or otherwise, can be made to be sharp. Being sharp is simply function of achieving a very thin apex where the two bevels meet. No matter what the steel is, if I make the bevels super low and achieve an apex, that blade is going to be ridiculously sharp. But the real practical issue, then, is, how durable is that sharp edge going to be? With a soft steel, that edge is going to deform or dull easily. With a very hard steel, it is going to be brittle. The trick is achieving an optimum balance. To some extent the circle can be squared by using powdered metal technology, but even that has limits.
The problem with high carbon knives - which can be durable, flexible, and sharp - is that they rust easily.
For real, the Irish are easily the most verbally inclined Northern European group.
They ran/run old time carnivals. Not too much left of that bit of old weird America.
In the 1950s while serving in the Army, stationed at a camp down in Georgia, my father accompanied the post Catholic priest to an impromptu Mass that the Priest said for a group of Irish American Tinkers, camped out deep in a pine forest. These were hillbilly, redneck southern American Tinkers, been in this country for who knows how many generations, but they were still distinctively Irish and distinctively Catholic. Old weird America.
They still run the food stands for Mardi Gras and county/state fairs across the South.
One larger faction in Irish society seems to have regarded Travellers in a somewhat condescending manner, much like how elements of the left have romanticized Native American Indians and excused their bad behavior. There was also the belief prior to widespread DNA analysis that Travellers were "Pre-Celtic" and the original inhabitants of Hibernia displaced by Celtic migration to the British Isles. (Note how this is again very similar to the American Indian story).
English liberals have long romanticized both the Irish and English travelers and the gypsies from Europe.
It’s a terrible situation in rural areas in England. They can camp as long as they want in someone’s land trash it up and be a nuisance. Farmers can’t even evict them to plant. So they lose that field for the entire season. And if the gypsies choose to set up their camp in a growing crop? Too bad farmer. gypsies can camp where they wish.
Yes, those electric wheels destroy good knives. Whetstones are the only way. If you consider knives disposable and use cheap ones like restaurants, who cares, but if you like good knives you need to use a whetstone. Guys like good knives, because guys like stuff like that. If you don’t like good knives, you might want to check your testosterone level with your doctor. My doctor has an info-sheet on his wall:
For most beginners, I'd say the Sharpmaker is the way to go. You get a couple of sets of ceramic sticks and the ability to set two angles (15 and 20). That's probably good enough for 95% of people who use kitchen knives and carry pocket knives.Back in the day, I used to carry good quality 1095 carbon blades if I were planning to be in the woods for an extended period of time. They could be sharpened with just about anything - a pebble, any kind of ceramic ware, etc. But they did dull pretty fast with use (e.g. dressing an animal) and they had to be wiped constantly to prevent rust (and I could never completely prevent rust).
Nowadays, I carry a small leather strop block with some sharpening compound and even a couple of small sheets of sandpaper (for metal) in my hunting kit*. And my knives are typically high quality stainless steel - usually N690, S35VN, M390, etc.
*I like to convex my blades. I've found that convexing provides the most durable sharpness in the field.
An edge will tend to fold over with use. Correct use of the steel stands the edge up again.
The whetstone is used to erase tiny gaps in the edge, and to create a new edge.
The grindstone is used to hollow grind the blade when repeated honing has worn down the height of the blade to a thicker cross section.
Once upon a time, kitchen knives were carbon steel. That stuff's pretty hard.
Grandma used to steel/hone by slapping 2 knives against each other before use.
That's pretty effective.
Over time, a feather edge is created. Eventually, that edge is worn down, and what she had left was rounded and dull.
That's where the tinker and his grindstone came in handy.
“Grandma used to steel/hone by slapping 2 knives against each other before use.” I was brought up with a start when I read that sentence because I had forgotten my mother used to do the same thing. Of course my mother could possibly have been close in age to your grandma, having been born in 1887.
She was born around 1908, the sight and noise of her sharpening knives stays in the memory 50+ years later
Or perhaps not?
Even in these times, my wife had our younger daughter in her mid-forties, and judging by my teenage daughter's cohort, we're by far the oldest parents in that group.
I’ve got 2 fish knives in leather scabbards. I’m scared to use them.
One larger faction in Irish society seems to have regarded Travellers in a somewhat condescending manner, much like how elements of the left have romanticized Native American Indians and excused their bad behavior. There was also the belief prior to widespread DNA analysis that Travellers were "Pre-Celtic" and the original inhabitants of Hibernia displaced by Celtic migration to the British Isles. (Note how this is again very similar to the American Indian story).
The explanation of Eastern European Gypsies being screwed up amounts to something similar. In the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Gypsies had autonomy and self-policing; after that was lost in WWI and the community was decimated in WWII, commies tried to procrusteanize them as urban workers in neat little apartments by fiat.
As did Jack Nicklaus and Walter Payton.
Sometimes the cooking shows talk about knife skills. But they use stainless steel knives which can never be sharp enough for efficiency and speed.
There are something like 30 independent firms that all share the Sabatier trademark (with modifiers – Elephant Sabatier, K-Sabatier, etc.) Some of them are pretty good (those 2) and some are crap but the top end Japanese knives are better than any of them.
I've driven through their "village" many times, as they live in one area, known as Murphy's Village. The homes are distinctive, ornate to the point of being gaudy, with a statue of Mary being the centerpiece to the front of every home. The first time I drove through I noticed several had all the windows covered with aluminum foil on the inside, and seemed to be abandonded, though they were obviously brand new. Some were not quite finished. One story I got was that it was a ritual that they wouldn't live in a home for a year after it was built, but I think they just seal them up tight before they hit the road every year.
Most live in Murphy's Village in the Winter months only. In the Spring they have a big party, then pack up their pick-ups and "caravans" and hit the road to work as contractors in the warm months. They used to do all sorts of odd jobs, such as house painting, where many say they were known for using the lowest quality of paints available, and thinning that as much as possible. I never met anyone satisfied with a Traveller paint job. They also used to make chairs, rocking chairs in particular, and sell them on the roadside. They were never known as being of any quality whatsoever. So they would leave their homes and go out and scam for nine months, then go home and marry their underage cousins and nieces.
This last was the subject of an investigation that I never heard or read of the resolution to. Girls as young as 12 and 13 were married off to older relatives in a large festival every year; it was said to be an old Irish Traveller tradtion.
All that being said, I haven't been through Murphy's Village in a couple of decades, nor have I seen or heard much about the Travellers since.
Inbreeding depression from cousin marriage lowers IQ by a small but significant amount. That may explain something. Same with the Middle East.
Thanks for your reply, I wasn’t sure if anyone would understand what I was describing.
She was born around 1908, the sight and noise of her sharpening knives stays in the memory 50+ years later
Don’t forget Jack Dempsey.
Two good friends of my youth, whose parents were Irish; their uncle wrote the play The Field was based on.
I must admit, the life they live is not without its attractions. Steal a 100 with a gun and they lock you up, steal a 100 million with a pen and some lawyers and you get a presidential pardon or an ambassadorship.
Who are the marks?
What is beautiful about them?
Here's the standard you want to look for:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZStbnMo9uY
Here's a bunch of them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeQJ25XtM-Y
Your’re welcome to it and thank you very much for the favorable mention.
-But “ulster”?
Please excuse the shameless self-referencing in dredging up a reply on the Jan. 1 (?) “Non Playing Character, 300 AD” thread:
Non-Playing Color: St. Patrick’s Day
Orange Bad
I don’t mean to pry, but your mother must have been quite a bit older than most of your childhood friends’ mothers. I am under the impression that a woman having a child in her mid-forties was a rarity before modern advances in medicine.
Or perhaps not?
Even in these times, my wife had our younger daughter in her mid-forties, and judging by my teenage daughter’s cohort, we’re by far the oldest parents in that group.
Both my grandmothers [born 1900 & 1908] had their last child in their early forties, g/grandma, born 1873, had her last child at 43.
Explains the Irish Travellers’ success as scam artists.
How does that compare to IQ depression caused by miscegenation?
#Me72
Or: Me and Me 72 Houris?
Please don’t bother asking and thanks for the LOL.
And please feel free to “steal” the following even if you haven’t thought of them already –
“Achmed” might like
What, Me Houri?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houri
A Yiddish Alfred E. Neuman need not worry about
What, Me Tsuris?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tsuris
Or perhaps not?
Even in these times, my wife had our younger daughter in her mid-forties, and judging by my teenage daughter's cohort, we're by far the oldest parents in that group.
Having a first child at that age was rare but many women were cranking them out well into their forties. There was, and is also the phenomenon of the “change of life baby” where women for whatever reason would wind up pregnant at the start of menopause. My mother was a “change of life baby”, her mother was 44, the next youngest sibling was starting high school. When I was born my maternal grandmother was in her seventies.
Sometimes the cooking shows talk about knife skills. But they use stainless steel knives which can never be sharp enough for efficiency and speed.
That’s just a ridiculous assertion that no one who knows anything about blades and blade steels would make. Sabatier is just a French brand name with a broad range of quality.
You are not going to find better slicers than the single-bevel carbon knives made by any number of quality makers in Japan.
That’s complete nonsense. ANY steel knife, “stainless” or otherwise, can be made to be sharp. Being sharp is simply function of achieving a very thin apex where the two bevels meet. No matter what the steel is, if I make the bevels super low and achieve an apex, that blade is going to be ridiculously sharp. But the real practical issue, then, is, how durable is that sharp edge going to be? With a soft steel, that edge is going to deform or dull easily. With a very hard steel, it is going to be brittle. The trick is achieving an optimum balance. To some extent the circle can be squared by using powdered metal technology, but even that has limits.
The problem with high carbon knives – which can be durable, flexible, and sharp – is that they rust easily.
and cutting up whole chickens in less than 2 minutes my entire adult life. Also good for fast mincing dicing chopping slicing
Its s myth that carbon steel rusts easily. Maybe if you lived in a damp foggy area and never dried them and they sat around in a drawer for days but mine never rusted.
Leather absorbs and retains moisture. If you keep the knives in leather, they will rust.
I love red snapper. When I lived in San Francisco I’d buy whole red snapper and use the fish knives on them. One of the few benefits of the Asian invasion is that they love fresh fish but won’t pay too much for it
Yes, No. Nothing is ever “the only way.” I use Japanese water stones. But I’ve also used a Spyderco Sharpmaker as well as a variety of devices that allow precise bevel angles. Most of them work pretty well, provided you use good sharpening medium.
For most beginners, I’d say the Sharpmaker is the way to go. You get a couple of sets of ceramic sticks and the ability to set two angles (15 and 20). That’s probably good enough for 95% of people who use kitchen knives and carry pocket knives.
Back in the day, I used to carry good quality 1095 carbon blades if I were planning to be in the woods for an extended period of time. They could be sharpened with just about anything – a pebble, any kind of ceramic ware, etc. But they did dull pretty fast with use (e.g. dressing an animal) and they had to be wiped constantly to prevent rust (and I could never completely prevent rust).
Nowadays, I carry a small leather strop block with some sharpening compound and even a couple of small sheets of sandpaper (for metal) in my hunting kit*. And my knives are typically high quality stainless steel – usually N690, S35VN, M390, etc.
*I like to convex my blades. I’ve found that convexing provides the most durable sharpness in the field.
https://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/dateline-nbc/episode-884972/100110/
First Aired: May 22, 1996
Scheduled: A "Lie, Cheat & Steal" report on "Irish Travelers," bands of alleged scammers who travel around the U.S. Included: hidden-camera footage. Lea Thompson is the correspondent.
The connection to roofing is that roofs used to be (sometimes) made of tin (plate).
What man doesn’t carry a pocket knife?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/could-california-produce-soon-cost-you-more-farms-face-labor-shortages-immigration-woes/ar-BBSNijI?ocid=spartanntpCould California elect 2 GOP US Senators? Much more likely than the barren shelves they threaten us with.
I notice food prices go up a little bit every month. Probably not enough illegal immigrant labor in the coffee tea and cocoa farms or the Mexican S American farms where so much of our produce is raised.
There are a lot of state prisons youth authority facilities and county jails in Ca. Maybe the farmers could use the prisoners in chain gangs.
Are the Japanese knives carbon steel? If so they’re probably ok. My sabatier were from Williams Sonoma a long time ago made in France.
Or perhaps not?
Even in these times, my wife had our younger daughter in her mid-forties, and judging by my teenage daughter's cohort, we're by far the oldest parents in that group.
Women kept having babies as long as they could keep having babies.
Both my grandmothers [born 1900 & 1908] had their last child in their early forties, g/grandma, born 1873, had her last child at 43.
You are not going to find better slicers than the single-bevel carbon knives made by any number of quality makers in Japan.That's complete nonsense. ANY steel knife, "stainless" or otherwise, can be made to be sharp. Being sharp is simply function of achieving a very thin apex where the two bevels meet. No matter what the steel is, if I make the bevels super low and achieve an apex, that blade is going to be ridiculously sharp. But the real practical issue, then, is, how durable is that sharp edge going to be? With a soft steel, that edge is going to deform or dull easily. With a very hard steel, it is going to be brittle. The trick is achieving an optimum balance. To some extent the circle can be squared by using powdered metal technology, but even that has limits.
The problem with high carbon knives - which can be durable, flexible, and sharp - is that they rust easily.
Whatever, I’ve been using carbon steel
and cutting up whole chickens in less than 2 minutes my entire adult life. Also good for fast mincing dicing chopping slicing
Its s myth that carbon steel rusts easily. Maybe if you lived in a damp foggy area and never dried them and they sat around in a drawer for days but mine never rusted.
Above freezing temperature, carbon steel starts to rust at about 70% humidity, much sooner if there are other elements in the air. And that’s just from contact with air, without sweat, water, chemicals, blood, etc.
You can maintain carbon blades with minimal rust (just “patina”) if you fastidiously wipe it, cover it with something like mineral oil (for food contact) or better yet rust preventatives, but that’s hard to do in many environments... whereas with something like N690 steel, you just flush it with water, wipe, and call it a day. And if you are constantly exposed to salt water, something like H1 steel (which replaces carbon with nitrogen) can be used.
What does this phrase mean?
I never noticed rust My family go out in kayaks and get plenty of ling cod. They use those fish knives in the scabbards all the time. I should give them my fish knives as all my fish comes nicely cut up in neat packages.
I love red snapper. When I lived in San Francisco I’d buy whole red snapper and use the fish knives on them. One of the few benefits of the Asian invasion is that they love fresh fish but won’t pay too much for it
I have some leather sheaths. I carry some knives in them, but I never store knives in them even though my gear is in a climate- (including humidity-) controlled room at home. For hard use, I use Thermoplastic (“Kydex”) sheaths. They are much more resistant to the elements and don’t absorb moisture.
I’ve never seen any Irish travelers but I’ve seen plenty of Irish American women. Here goes
Medium slim well proportioned body nice slim legs defined ankles and wrists Well proportioned faces. Mostly oval with feminine pointed chins instead of broad jaws. No foreheads too big or small. Big eyes often blue. Longish slim necks no double chins or jowls. Sculpted thin lips not blobby. Hair of any color but always good hair, medium thick wavy not stick straight or wild and curly, hair that’s manageable to any style
Overall, medium pretty to truly beautiful and on average s lot better looking than English or Scots overall, Botticelli girls but not blondes
If you want to see pretty girls, go to those Irish dancing classes for children nd teens
What did you mean by this?
Botticelli girls but not blondes
Mexican and South American farms where we get so much of our produce Sorry.
I also would guess that many of those primarily descended from pre-Celts would have been semi-nomadic during the centuries of Celtic rule of the island. Celtic life, when stable, was based on farmland holdings. Wealth and especially status were bound up in owning land and producing the best livestock, and to a lesser degree the best crops. In such a society, those who were largely the defeated would either be some type of serf or some kind of semi-nomadic people.
Interesting theory, but not very believable. Celts most likely took over in Ireland a few centuries before Christ. It’s hard to believe that a marginal group without land survives for more then 2000 years.
Prior to the mid-1990s, Ireland was a sort of English speaking Iceland where non-whites (and, indeed, people who didn't speak English as a first language) didn't even add up to 1% of the population. This makes Ireland in the 20th century into a fascinating study in how a coherent white Anglo sub-culture isolated from the surrounding "vibrancy" which engulfed the US and the UK would fare: Would it turn into a European Vermont where the population, isolated from the actual squalid reality of living amongst the third world masses, would develop romantic fantasies about minorities it only ever saw on television being victimised by badwhites? Or would Ireland's Catholicism do for the country what Mormonism did for Utah and turn the place into a ruggedly individualistic conservative isolate willing to stand aloof from international PC trends?
The answer (sadly) is that Ireland more or less went the way of Vermont and not Utah and I believe that Irish Travellers may have had quite a lot to do with the way Ireland went. As usual, there's more than an iSteve theme or two nestled in this sad story.
Principally, as Steve points out, Anglo subcultures have a huge difficulty when it comes to standing up to fashionable intellectual trends from the UK and the US because nobody has to learn a second language to wire seamlessly into them. This meant that Ireland's homegrown cognoscenti were able to plug themselves directly into trendy American and British leftist cultural mores. As in Vermont, because there was no domestic third world underclass in the country doing to Dublin, Cork and Limerick what the Warren Supreme Court did to Detroit, Baltimore and New York City, there was no natural opposition to to the culturally dominant worldview. This meant that, by the 1990s, even conservative Irish people had internalised far left views on race as a cultural norm.
However, unlike Vermont, Ireland did not have a steady stream of refugees from "diverse" metropolitan areas like Howard Dean or Bernie Sanders who were eager to bring with them the mores of the places that they were escaping. This meant that, in spite of our elite's best efforts, Ireland's muscle of white ethnomasochism might have atrophied. This is where the Travellers came in.
Up until the mid-20th century, these communities weren't really all that dysfunctional (although they must have had the usual problems that afflict nomads everywhere and they were and are inbred as hell) but then the dramatic fall in the price of kitchen utensils and regional transit effectively destroyed their economic niche - an occupation known as "tinkering", which involved travelling from village to village repairing pots and pans.
As if this wasn't bad enough, Travellers were generally reliant on people's willingness to allow them to periodically use land on a rent-free basis. As occupiers' liability laws made landowners more and more responsible for injuries occurring on their properties, as public liability insurance became more expensive and necessary and as the fall-off in tinkering business led travellers to engage in less salubrious (and legal) business lines that typically took advantage of the nomad's ability to get out of dodge quickly, people became less willing to tolerate their presence on their land.
This created a model victim minority which the Irish establishment quickly turned into the blacks of Ireland - as usual, their dysfunctionality was a feature and not a bug as the worse they behaved, the less people liked them; the less people liked them the more the establishment coddled them; the more the establishment coddled them, the worse they behaved; the worse they behaved, the less people liked them (either a vicious or benign cycle, depending on one's point of view). A good example of Irish officialdom's love affair with Travellers was Jim Sheridan's 1992 movie Into the West, starring Gabriel Byrne, which portrayed Travellers as a peaceful community of oppressed accordion players being persecuted by the police and other arms of officialdom which, in real life, treated Travellers with humiliating obsequy.
Nowhere was Traveller behaviour worse than in bars and hotels and the antics that took place at Traveller weddings entered the annals of infamy. When the Equal Status Act 2000 made it illegal for hotels and bars to discriminate against Travellers, an early warning system had to develop amongst the owners of rural bars and hotels whereby, on the day a local Traveller family sought to book a hotel for a wedding, that hotel would close down and inform all of its competitors and thus every hotel in town would follow suit. The result is that whole towns have no open hotels or pubs on the days of local Traveller weddings to avoid either discrimination suits, on the one hand, or mayhem, on the other.
Ireland's conservative political movements, meanwhile, have tended to heavily centre around the Catholic Church and this has given the Travellers their second ace in the pack. Travellers are the most uniformly and dogmatically socially conservative and religiously observant community in Catholic Ireland. In a town with a 10% Traveller population, Travellers will make up 50% of the Sunday Mass attendance. This means that the Catholic hierarchy (especially in times when the population at large has become less religious) always had their backs and endorsed the official line with respect to their "oppression".
The extent to which Travellers became the Irish blacks is even mirrored in the evolution of new linguistic norms sprouting up with every generation:
1. Travellers used to be known as "Tinkers" (on account of their business of tinkering) but that was suddenly and for no obvious reason deemed "racist".
2. The acceptable term became "Itinerants". This term too became unacceptable for no obvious reason - my own suspicion is that Travellers, who tend to have very limited vocabularies, didn't understand what the word meant and were humiliated by it.
3. The current favoured word is "Traveller" but there is an extant attempt to create a new term "Member of the Travelling Community" but, a bit like phasing out "black" in favour of "African American", the new term is a bit too verbose for Travellers themselves to adopt it.
Much like blacks in pre-Giuliani New York, Traveller behaviour eventually became so outrageous that the community became an embarrassment to the establishment - Irish Travellers even had their equivalent to the OJ Simpson falling from grace moment when a Traveller was shot dead by a farmer who was acquitted on the grounds of self defence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_John_Ward).
Of course, by then, the Irish establishment didn't need Travellers anymore due to (now two decades or more of) mass Third World immigration and (of course) the ever growing LGBTQWERTYUIOP acronym. However, I think that it's entirely possible that the Travellers were instrumental in allowing the Irish to hone their skills in abject ethnomasochism at a time when they might have missed the boat due to their country's slowness to catch onto international demographic trends. So depending on one's perspective, we Irish owe them a debt of gratitude or quite the opposite. Needless to say, I think the latter.
Good comment. I agree with your analysis
Inexpensive knives are great if you have to lose one for legal reasons.
Any man who works in a government building and goes through a metal detector daily. If a White boy or girl were discovered to carry a little 2 inch knife manicure scissors or metal nail file to school they’d be suspended.
I thought cooks all had their own set of good knives they take good care of and take home every night so no one steals them. Same with food meat cutters.
Chefs and hairdressers, maybe.
I was a [ahem] boner and slaughterman in Queensland for 25 years, 9 out of 10 blokes used a $10 dollar Victorinox, Swibo, F.Dick, and Dexter Russell also made good knives.
Steels were the valuable thing, some blokes had Pipe Steels, those things had a torpedo shape, heavy, like there was some lead there, and they never left them out of their sight.
Speak for yourself. I find his knowledge and experience enriching of this comment section.
Thank you.
What did you mean by this?
Botticelli girls but not blondes
Why is rusting a problem?
https://municibid.com/NetworkedContent/listingImages/20160111/fb576eaf-c82e-4939-bf84-56089c81d284_fullsize.jpg
Ah yes, I remember them well.
Bought an old bread van for $900, it was straight propane so no one wanted it. Straight six Ford 300 engine, Ford transmission, it was not a Grumman but some other brand-a Utilimaster. I think it had a Ford built chassis. It was a great second/third car and very useful. I sold it to someone else and he promptly scrapped it because he was too stupid to keep it running. It was slow and noisy , hot in the summer, cold in the winter.
On nice spring and fall nights it was great for sleeping in the back of. Wish I’d never sold it.
The Doran family are Irish.
The Daily Mail calls them Gypsies.
Bought an old bread van for $900, it was straight propane so no one wanted it. Straight six Ford 300 engine, Ford transmission, it was not a Grumman but some other brand-a Utilimaster. I think it had a Ford built chassis. It was a great second/third car and very useful. I sold it to someone else and he promptly scrapped it because he was too stupid to keep it running. It was slow and noisy , hot in the summer, cold in the winter.
On nice spring and fall nights it was great for sleeping in the back of. Wish I'd never sold it.
What about the fumes from the gas tank, line, and engine?
I remember Tinker horse-drawn caravans in Ireland in 1965. Very colorful.
A key cause of the Civil War was the Irish Rebellion against English and Scottish settlers. Settlement was about ensuring such an uprising did not happen again, punishing the rebels and securing the flank against invasion or attack, Cromwellian foreign policy was focused on securing the new regime. Lands were given as a reward to soldiers and promises of land in Ireland had been used to secure funding by the English Parliament. Property rights were still sacred and English Royalists faced some restrictions but confiscating their land was not acceptable. The Civil War in England was a civilised affair in comparison to other conflicts of the era, or even the American Civil War.
Charming folks altogether.
The driveway and roofing scams are the main ones in Britain.
Do some research. That’s all I’ll say.
Traditional single-bevel knives from Japan are (very high) carbon. But the Japanese are also world leaders in stainless steel alloys and knives made with them.
Marketing.
You must know the story about the Irishman who, when asked directions from A t0 Z replied, “Well, first of all, I wouldn’t start from here”?
Prior to the mid-1990s, Ireland was a sort of English speaking Iceland where non-whites (and, indeed, people who didn't speak English as a first language) didn't even add up to 1% of the population. This makes Ireland in the 20th century into a fascinating study in how a coherent white Anglo sub-culture isolated from the surrounding "vibrancy" which engulfed the US and the UK would fare: Would it turn into a European Vermont where the population, isolated from the actual squalid reality of living amongst the third world masses, would develop romantic fantasies about minorities it only ever saw on television being victimised by badwhites? Or would Ireland's Catholicism do for the country what Mormonism did for Utah and turn the place into a ruggedly individualistic conservative isolate willing to stand aloof from international PC trends?
The answer (sadly) is that Ireland more or less went the way of Vermont and not Utah and I believe that Irish Travellers may have had quite a lot to do with the way Ireland went. As usual, there's more than an iSteve theme or two nestled in this sad story.
Principally, as Steve points out, Anglo subcultures have a huge difficulty when it comes to standing up to fashionable intellectual trends from the UK and the US because nobody has to learn a second language to wire seamlessly into them. This meant that Ireland's homegrown cognoscenti were able to plug themselves directly into trendy American and British leftist cultural mores. As in Vermont, because there was no domestic third world underclass in the country doing to Dublin, Cork and Limerick what the Warren Supreme Court did to Detroit, Baltimore and New York City, there was no natural opposition to to the culturally dominant worldview. This meant that, by the 1990s, even conservative Irish people had internalised far left views on race as a cultural norm.
However, unlike Vermont, Ireland did not have a steady stream of refugees from "diverse" metropolitan areas like Howard Dean or Bernie Sanders who were eager to bring with them the mores of the places that they were escaping. This meant that, in spite of our elite's best efforts, Ireland's muscle of white ethnomasochism might have atrophied. This is where the Travellers came in.
Up until the mid-20th century, these communities weren't really all that dysfunctional (although they must have had the usual problems that afflict nomads everywhere and they were and are inbred as hell) but then the dramatic fall in the price of kitchen utensils and regional transit effectively destroyed their economic niche - an occupation known as "tinkering", which involved travelling from village to village repairing pots and pans.
As if this wasn't bad enough, Travellers were generally reliant on people's willingness to allow them to periodically use land on a rent-free basis. As occupiers' liability laws made landowners more and more responsible for injuries occurring on their properties, as public liability insurance became more expensive and necessary and as the fall-off in tinkering business led travellers to engage in less salubrious (and legal) business lines that typically took advantage of the nomad's ability to get out of dodge quickly, people became less willing to tolerate their presence on their land.
This created a model victim minority which the Irish establishment quickly turned into the blacks of Ireland - as usual, their dysfunctionality was a feature and not a bug as the worse they behaved, the less people liked them; the less people liked them the more the establishment coddled them; the more the establishment coddled them, the worse they behaved; the worse they behaved, the less people liked them (either a vicious or benign cycle, depending on one's point of view). A good example of Irish officialdom's love affair with Travellers was Jim Sheridan's 1992 movie Into the West, starring Gabriel Byrne, which portrayed Travellers as a peaceful community of oppressed accordion players being persecuted by the police and other arms of officialdom which, in real life, treated Travellers with humiliating obsequy.
Nowhere was Traveller behaviour worse than in bars and hotels and the antics that took place at Traveller weddings entered the annals of infamy. When the Equal Status Act 2000 made it illegal for hotels and bars to discriminate against Travellers, an early warning system had to develop amongst the owners of rural bars and hotels whereby, on the day a local Traveller family sought to book a hotel for a wedding, that hotel would close down and inform all of its competitors and thus every hotel in town would follow suit. The result is that whole towns have no open hotels or pubs on the days of local Traveller weddings to avoid either discrimination suits, on the one hand, or mayhem, on the other.
Ireland's conservative political movements, meanwhile, have tended to heavily centre around the Catholic Church and this has given the Travellers their second ace in the pack. Travellers are the most uniformly and dogmatically socially conservative and religiously observant community in Catholic Ireland. In a town with a 10% Traveller population, Travellers will make up 50% of the Sunday Mass attendance. This means that the Catholic hierarchy (especially in times when the population at large has become less religious) always had their backs and endorsed the official line with respect to their "oppression".
The extent to which Travellers became the Irish blacks is even mirrored in the evolution of new linguistic norms sprouting up with every generation:
1. Travellers used to be known as "Tinkers" (on account of their business of tinkering) but that was suddenly and for no obvious reason deemed "racist".
2. The acceptable term became "Itinerants". This term too became unacceptable for no obvious reason - my own suspicion is that Travellers, who tend to have very limited vocabularies, didn't understand what the word meant and were humiliated by it.
3. The current favoured word is "Traveller" but there is an extant attempt to create a new term "Member of the Travelling Community" but, a bit like phasing out "black" in favour of "African American", the new term is a bit too verbose for Travellers themselves to adopt it.
Much like blacks in pre-Giuliani New York, Traveller behaviour eventually became so outrageous that the community became an embarrassment to the establishment - Irish Travellers even had their equivalent to the OJ Simpson falling from grace moment when a Traveller was shot dead by a farmer who was acquitted on the grounds of self defence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_John_Ward).
Of course, by then, the Irish establishment didn't need Travellers anymore due to (now two decades or more of) mass Third World immigration and (of course) the ever growing LGBTQWERTYUIOP acronym. However, I think that it's entirely possible that the Travellers were instrumental in allowing the Irish to hone their skills in abject ethnomasochism at a time when they might have missed the boat due to their country's slowness to catch onto international demographic trends. So depending on one's perspective, we Irish owe them a debt of gratitude or quite the opposite. Needless to say, I think the latter.
Great, great comment. Thanks for taking the time. What do you make of the fact that two hotels in rural areas which were due to accept Syrian refugees have had fires set in them? One was in Donegal and the other in Roscommon or Leitrim.
and cutting up whole chickens in less than 2 minutes my entire adult life. Also good for fast mincing dicing chopping slicing
Its s myth that carbon steel rusts easily. Maybe if you lived in a damp foggy area and never dried them and they sat around in a drawer for days but mine never rusted.
It’s not a myth. Do a salt water spray test, and you can see how much faster carbon steel rusts compared to various stainless steels.
Above freezing temperature, carbon steel starts to rust at about 70% humidity, much sooner if there are other elements in the air. And that’s just from contact with air, without sweat, water, chemicals, blood, etc.
You can maintain carbon blades with minimal rust (just “patina”) if you fastidiously wipe it, cover it with something like mineral oil (for food contact) or better yet rust preventatives, but that’s hard to do in many environments… whereas with something like N690 steel, you just flush it with water, wipe, and call it a day. And if you are constantly exposed to salt water, something like H1 steel (which replaces carbon with nitrogen) can be used.
In my experience stainless steel kitchen knives can never get sharp enough to cut up a whole chicken in less than 2 minitues or reduce a garlic clove or onion to mushy mince or shave zest with no pith off a lemon or orange or slice chop and dice quickly and efficiently. Just my cooking experience
I love red snapper. When I lived in San Francisco I’d buy whole red snapper and use the fish knives on them. One of the few benefits of the Asian invasion is that they love fresh fish but won’t pay too much for it
Are the sheaths leather? Do they also store the knives in the sheaths?
I have some leather sheaths. I carry some knives in them, but I never store knives in them even though my gear is in a climate- (including humidity-) controlled room at home. For hard use, I use Thermoplastic (“Kydex”) sheaths. They are much more resistant to the elements and don’t absorb moisture.
Don’t blame you. I opened myself up pretty good with a freshly sharpened filet knife while we were cleaning and filleting mahi-mahi on the ride back in after a long day’s fishing.
That is creepy.
your kids, especially if you’re a female parent.
I wasn’t referring to Tyson Fury.
They are very often physically beautiful. Dark hair, blue or green eyes. Built like Ann Margret or Marilyn Monroe. They dress a little over the top, and they age pretty quickly, but many of them can be pretty easy on the eyes.
Yes. Pretty much entirely gone 20 years later. A friend was beat up by a bunch of them back in the eighties after chatting up one of their women. We were all teens then, so he just had an eye blackened.
Same with food meat cutters.
Chefs and hairdressers, maybe.
I was a [ahem] boner and slaughterman in Queensland for 25 years, 9 out of 10 blokes used a $10 dollar Victorinox, Swibo, F.Dick, and Dexter Russell also made good knives.
Steels were the valuable thing, some blokes had Pipe Steels, those things had a torpedo shape, heavy, like there was some lead there, and they never left them out of their sight.
It is the sorry plight of the Travellers that every term assigned to describe them eventually becomes associated in the public mind with thievery. It is about time for another name change. That will fix the problem.
Your’s is a prime example of why we spend so much time reading the comments here.
A recent topic was rock song lyrics. So, on this traveller business, the next time I hear Van the Man’s. Caravan, I’ll listen with a fresh ear. (Maybe, he’ll do it live stateside this spring.)
Thanks J. I was furious when I heard about the Roscommon and Donegal fires (and even darkly wondered whether they were false flags) because it allowed the propaganda media to change the focus from cucky policy to Irish Klansmen etc. However, the media has been strangely muted about the fires, which suggests to me that they are sitting on a story about public discontent – maybe there is some vestigial impact on the ground from Peter Casey’s presidential campaign?
You can get both carbon and stainless knives from Japan. The Japanese are world leaders in knife metallurgy and some of their modern stainless alloys are very good. Carbon steel is wonderful but it’s not for everyone because it requires care to avoid rust and stains – most people don’t want to have to deal with it. There are modern alloys that are rust resistant and yet will take and hold an edge.
Maybe, that is because, since whites are the target, it won’t stir up a ratings-boosting frenzy, with whites rallying in a show of factionalism to defend an offshoot of their clan. What I want to know is this: Are the River Dance wizards Travelers?
Don’t Catholic priests adhere to the Church? That didn’t stop them from having their own scandal.
The more times the name has changed the more "problematic" the group described are.
Idiots are a good example. While they can have superior moral values, and human value, it is obviously not the better option if everything is kept constant, even while they are idiots through no fault of their own. Anyway:
As introduced by S.G. Howe (1846), simpleton was intended to mean people with mild intellectual disability. However, it never fully entered the worldwide medical community's terminology. The term was later replaced by "moron."
Moron was an invented word. A psychologist named Henry Goddard developed the term. It was used to classify people with mild intellectual disabilities. Goddard created the novel word by combining parts of words like sophomore and oxymoron. The term was used to replace feeble-minded. Feebleminded was misused by society to refer to people with any severity of ID.
Feeble-minded came from the Latin word flebilis. It means, "to be lamented." It referred to people who were not profoundly disabled, but still required intervention and care.
Retarded comes from the Latin retardare. This means, "to make slow, delay, keep back, or hinder." The first record of the word "retarded" in relation to developmental delay was in 1895. The term retarded was used to replace terms like idiot, moron, and imbecile. This was because it was not a derogatory term at that time. However, by the 1960s, the term became a word used to insult someone.
What is it now "mentally challenged?" However you rename it, it will not maintain even neutral connotations. People don't want to be like stupid people are.
It’s autism now. Most so-called ‘autistic’ kids are simply stupid
No, to their great shame, many do not. I’d go so far as to say that almost no Catholics adhere to the faith as it was understood fifty years ago.
Very hard to say. Donegal was the only county to vote against the recent Constitutional amendment allowing abortion. There’s a blog called Irish Savant which just described the town of Kenmare having been invaded overnight by African refugees. It seems the Government has decided to act in secrecy. It will be interesting to see how the next year goes.
This is a classic “no true Scotsman” defense.
Are they better than the Germans?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ALMJPI/ref=psdc_289857_t1_B00BYO5EAC
They make all the girls wear these ridiculous looking wigs. Apparently this “custom” is of recent origin – it was probably invented by the wig makers. Once you turn a fun activity like dancing into a competitive “sport” it completely kills the fun.
It was certainly not meant that way. I wouldn’t even attempt to defend the indefensible. It was more in the nature of an elegiac remark.
Higher end Japanese stainless steel knives typically use some variant of Takefu SG2, Hitachi ZDP-189, etc. SG2, for example, is made from powdered metal, and can easily achieve 64HRC while being less brittle than VG10 at 59 HRC. You can grind that thing to about 10-12 degrees, polish the heck out of it, and it will slice things near-microscopically.
And let’s not even go to old-style single bevel Japanese carbon knives that are truly, scary-sharp. Those things go 65HRC and up.
Personally I stayed away from the Japanese knives because they were too hard and brittle for my style of cooking – I do want to be able to hack apart a turkey backbone with a chef’s knife without taking big divots out of my knife edge. I don’t want the tip to snap off just because the knife falls off the counter. I used to have a few Kai pieces a long time ago (before “Shun”) and got rid of them because they were as brittle as glass. I don’t care what HRC they claimed – they were too brittle to use (and a bitch to sharpen). Maybe if they were used only to slice raw boneless fish they’d be great but I’m not a sashimi chef. I haven’t kept up with the later advances because I was so turned off by that overly hard brittle style of knife.
I don’t mind having to use the steel frequently – it only takes a few seconds. I don’t want to pay $300 for a supersteel knife when a $30 Victorinox is perfectly adequate. If you have a $30 knife you don’t mind grinding the edges if needed – I could grind thru 10 of them and still be ahead.
But to each his own.
Here is a quick primer: https://www.mtckitchen.com/knife-styles/Holding all things equal, high HRC means more brittle and higher edge retention (harder to sharpen).
As a general note, a knife is not a cleaver or a pry bar. It’s meant to cut and slice. Use the right tool for each job.
And you will be grinding through 20-30 of those $30 Victorinox knives by the time that SG2 blade wears out.
But, like you said, to each his own. Some people prefer to lead a "disposable" life.
I don't mind having to use the steel frequently - it only takes a few seconds. I don't want to pay $300 for a supersteel knife when a $30 Victorinox is perfectly adequate. If you have a $30 knife you don't mind grinding the edges if needed - I could grind thru 10 of them and still be ahead.
But to each his own.
Why Victorinox and not Wusthof?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0057MG1V8/ref=psdc_289857_t2_B008GRUNOC
Usually anything marked "NSF" is rated for food service - it just means that the knife has a sealed plastic handle that will not conceal bacteria. The knife itself could be utter crap. But usually they are a pretty good balance between price and value.
Black raven hair, refined facial features, milk-white skin, etc.
Here’s the standard you want to look for:
Here’s a bunch of them:
Above freezing temperature, carbon steel starts to rust at about 70% humidity, much sooner if there are other elements in the air. And that’s just from contact with air, without sweat, water, chemicals, blood, etc.
You can maintain carbon blades with minimal rust (just “patina”) if you fastidiously wipe it, cover it with something like mineral oil (for food contact) or better yet rust preventatives, but that’s hard to do in many environments... whereas with something like N690 steel, you just flush it with water, wipe, and call it a day. And if you are constantly exposed to salt water, something like H1 steel (which replaces carbon with nitrogen) can be used.
So now we’re arguing about kitchen knives. Ok. I lived most of my life and raised my children in damp, foggy close to the salt water ocean Sea Cliff neighborhood of San Francisco. I used sabatier carbon steel knives and they never got rust. After use I just rinsed with hot water dried and put back on a wall rack thingee
In my experience stainless steel kitchen knives can never get sharp enough to cut up a whole chicken in less than 2 minitues or reduce a garlic clove or onion to mushy mince or shave zest with no pith off a lemon or orange or slice chop and dice quickly and efficiently. Just my cooking experience
A knife with something like Hitachi ZDP-189 powdered metallurgy stainless steel will get stupid sharp, far better than your marketing-driven Sabatier sold at a big box store, and it will retain that edge for much longer than the latter, all the while having much greater rust-resistance... which is not a surprise given the technology that has gone into that super steel.
Not if you’re a parent picking up
your kids, especially if you’re a female parent.
Chefs and hairdressers, maybe.
I was a [ahem] boner and slaughterman in Queensland for 25 years, 9 out of 10 blokes used a $10 dollar Victorinox, Swibo, F.Dick, and Dexter Russell also made good knives.
Steels were the valuable thing, some blokes had Pipe Steels, those things had a torpedo shape, heavy, like there was some lead there, and they never left them out of their sight.
My meat cutter friend calls his Excalibur He has only one knife. It looks like a short machete.
Someone who is deboning all day with a 6 inch knife is going to hit bone occasionally, no matter how good he is, so that knife is going to wear down and be discarded, whether it takes 2 months or 2 years.
I kept them under the dish towels so the kids wouldn’t find and use them. I never cut myself cutting the red snapper but I was super careful.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nG_Nwp0wZc0
Snatch is hilarious. This is not explicitly about the Travelers but good nonetheless: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trespass_Against_Us
I don't mind having to use the steel frequently - it only takes a few seconds. I don't want to pay $300 for a supersteel knife when a $30 Victorinox is perfectly adequate. If you have a $30 knife you don't mind grinding the edges if needed - I could grind thru 10 of them and still be ahead.
But to each his own.
You can do that with Japanese knives – just not the ones meant for slicing.
Here is a quick primer: https://www.mtckitchen.com/knife-styles/
Holding all things equal, high HRC means more brittle and higher edge retention (harder to sharpen).
As a general note, a knife is not a cleaver or a pry bar. It’s meant to cut and slice. Use the right tool for each job.
Here is a quick primer: https://www.mtckitchen.com/knife-styles/Holding all things equal, high HRC means more brittle and higher edge retention (harder to sharpen).
As a general note, a knife is not a cleaver or a pry bar. It’s meant to cut and slice. Use the right tool for each job.
Is there a difference between cutting and slicing?
As opposed to, say, cleaving and chopping.
Cutting is like opening up melon or squash so it can be cut into smaller pieces and then sliced into serving size pieces.
I don’t know all the terms. But I do a lot of different things for instance mincing so fine the onions get mushy or a big basil leaf turns into tiny pieces. Sharp knives are need for those things.
Both my grandmothers [born 1900 & 1908] had their last child in their early forties, g/grandma, born 1873, had her last child at 43.
My great grandmother had her 10th child at age 49…
Victorinox is made (mainly) for pros – meat cutters, etc. although they have caught on in recent years with the public. If you want German knives, F. Dick is the same. Wusthof is overpriced stuff that rich white ladies buy at Bloomingdales and Williams Sonoma (then they take it home and never sharpen it or even steel it again – they don’t know how). Some of it is good but not worth 5x the price of the Victorinox equivalent piece. Like any other “prestige” product, a lot of what you are paying for is image and advertising rather than the physical product.
As I indicated above, I mostly prefer a thin knife – the forged Wusthof are quite stout. There is some justification for forged chef’s knives but for other applications you are better off with something that is thinner and more flexible. I actually own one Henckels knife – a old (probably 1960s) stamped slicing knife that reminds me of the old American Chicago knives – walnut handle and not even a full tang. I think I bought it for a buck or two at a thrift shop. It’s a good knife. I think Henckel’s low end stamped stuff nowadays is made in China under their “Henckels International” label – avoid.
They are starting to have some of their high-end knives made in Japan though.
In my experience stainless steel kitchen knives can never get sharp enough to cut up a whole chicken in less than 2 minitues or reduce a garlic clove or onion to mushy mince or shave zest with no pith off a lemon or orange or slice chop and dice quickly and efficiently. Just my cooking experience
It doesn’t matter what type of knife is under discussion something like a 1095 carbon WILL rust faster than, say, 440C stainless steel, holding other variable constant. It’s just basic science… something you can test/falsify by spraying both with salt water. I don’t know whether you are being stupid (not understand the underlying basic science of corrosion and metal composition) or just obstinate (“I am not losing this argument!”).
This is akin to “I know a black guy who is smarter than all the white guys I know” type of response to the testable/observable phenomenon that blacks on average have lower IQ than whites.
You have little experience in quality (or even average, nowadays) stainless steel it appears.
A knife with something like Hitachi ZDP-189 powdered metallurgy stainless steel will get stupid sharp, far better than your marketing-driven Sabatier sold at a big box store, and it will retain that edge for much longer than the latter, all the while having much greater rust-resistance… which is not a surprise given the technology that has gone into that super steel.
I have no need for knives used for gutting out dressing and butchering deer or slaughterhouse blades.
Why don’t you start an ad campaign urging everyone to buy super dupper specialized $500 stainless steel hunting knives for slicing vegetables and cutting chickens?
PS, Wusthof has a food service line that is not bad , although I think I like the Victorinox slightly more:
Usually anything marked “NSF” is rated for food service – it just means that the knife has a sealed plastic handle that will not conceal bacteria. The knife itself could be utter crap. But usually they are a pretty good balance between price and value.
All those knives – Victorinox, Henckel, and Wusthof are made with outdated steels with inferior performance. They are mainly sold to hausfrauen with zero knowledge of cutlery and steels. You are paying for the brands.
They are starting to have some of their high-end knives made in Japan though.
I use “cutting” here to mean “push-cutting” as opposed to slicing:
As opposed to, say, cleaving and chopping.
I don't mind having to use the steel frequently - it only takes a few seconds. I don't want to pay $300 for a supersteel knife when a $30 Victorinox is perfectly adequate. If you have a $30 knife you don't mind grinding the edges if needed - I could grind thru 10 of them and still be ahead.
But to each his own.
You can get a high quality Japanese kitchen knife (say a 5″ Santoku) with SG2 for about $100-$150.
And you will be grinding through 20-30 of those $30 Victorinox knives by the time that SG2 blade wears out.
But, like you said, to each his own. Some people prefer to lead a “disposable” life.
Thank you.
As opposed to, say, cleaving and chopping.
Thank you.
And you will be grinding through 20-30 of those $30 Victorinox knives by the time that SG2 blade wears out.
But, like you said, to each his own. Some people prefer to lead a "disposable" life.
Is there a chance that products from Japan contain residual radiation from Fukushima?
https://youtu.be/VgkrzcAyYYQ
In all seriousness, Seki City is far away from Fukushima. I’d be more worried of the small amount of cobalt in the VG10 steel.
Understand that Japanese make really cheap junk too. At the high end, yes, the best Japanese stuff is generally better than the German. Henckels has a high end line made for it in Japan using the fancy powdered metal, ultra high hardness steel that Twinkie keeps talking about, so it is a Japanese knife with a German name:
And you will be grinding through 20-30 of those $30 Victorinox knives by the time that SG2 blade wears out.
But, like you said, to each his own. Some people prefer to lead a "disposable" life.
I don’t want a 5″ santoku – I meant an 8″ chef knife. Are the Miyabi any good?
Just skip the VG10 models and try a SG2 one. By the way, Fallkniven in Sweden also uses the SG2 quite a bit. Their Swedish Air Force survival knife comes in both the laminated VG10 version and the SG2 version. SG2 is just superior to VG10 in every way, except in price.
LMAO at anyone attempting to out-argue Twinkie on the subject of blades. He’s a bushido master (#172) and serious as a heart attack.
And you will be grinding through 20-30 of those $30 Victorinox knives by the time that SG2 blade wears out.
But, like you said, to each his own. Some people prefer to lead a "disposable" life.
That’s a ridiculous assertion. Unless you unnecessarily grind your Victorinox far more often and using a far more aggressive power grinding method than is necessary, the average home user would not grind thru 30 Victorinox knifes in 3 lifetimes.
It all depends on whether you view a knife as a disposable consumable or a thing of lasting use and even beauty, if you like.
And I might add that the apex on that SG2 blade is going to stay much, much thinner than that on a Victorinox for so much longer. It's not simply a matter of x dollars over y years. The user experiences for the two knives are going to be very different.
If you are not going to use the knife much, by all means keep doing what you are doing. But if you are serious about cooking (or hunting) a lot, you would benefit from quality knives. I say buy quality and cry once, but your consumer philosophy may differ.
Though the Japanese also make Western-style chef knives, the native equivalent of that would be a Gyuto.
Miyabi makes a range. But anything made by Miyabi is going to be better than that $30 Victorinox. Note that Miyabi is a Japanese-named brand owned by Henckels, made in Japan. So you are paying for that Henckels middleman premium. The knives would be Western-style or hybrids.
Just skip the VG10 models and try a SG2 one. By the way, Fallkniven in Sweden also uses the SG2 quite a bit. Their Swedish Air Force survival knife comes in both the laminated VG10 version and the SG2 version. SG2 is just superior to VG10 in every way, except in price.
And by that logic, that SG2 blade will be inherited by the said average home user’s grandchildren and then some.
It all depends on whether you view a knife as a disposable consumable or a thing of lasting use and even beauty, if you like.
And I might add that the apex on that SG2 blade is going to stay much, much thinner than that on a Victorinox for so much longer. It’s not simply a matter of x dollars over y years. The user experiences for the two knives are going to be very different.
If you are not going to use the knife much, by all means keep doing what you are doing. But if you are serious about cooking (or hunting) a lot, you would benefit from quality knives. I say buy quality and cry once, but your consumer philosophy may differ.
Japan is totally safe. See starting at 00:01:58:
In all seriousness, Seki City is far away from Fukushima. I’d be more worried of the small amount of cobalt in the VG10 steel.
Sounds like he is cutting either steaks or schnitzel all day long. That knife would be priceless to him.
Someone who is deboning all day with a 6 inch knife is going to hit bone occasionally, no matter how good he is, so that knife is going to wear down and be discarded, whether it takes 2 months or 2 years.
It’s a gem for sure, I stumbled across it at a cheap dollar theater long after it had moved out of mainstream release. I enjoyed Ritchie’s Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrells as well – I’ll have to check out Trespass, I usually enjoy Fassbender.
Don't know what happened to Guy Ritchie; maybe it was being married to Madonna.
I am a sucker for English crime movies. I especially like some that are based on real life events:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bank_Job
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_Boys
Regarding RB's father: "Though English by ancestry, he was born in Ireland..."
Re RB:"This led to Richard's often being called Irish, but in fact he lacked any traces of Irish blood...Though the name Burton was common in England, it was also a Gypsy or Romany name, and everyone agreed that Richard Burton had the general appearance associated with Gypsies."As mentioned on another unreadable post, I'd lost my copy of "The Europeans" by John Geipel. In it was mentioned the "flash talk" of a crime-prone culture. I was only able to Google the following which mentions "a wild district of Derbyshire" (which could bring to mind another John and surely some Gypsies were pimps) and seems to suggest that the very word "slang" is slang for Flash Talk:https://books.google.com/books?id=_m7k1Oi-cakC&pg=PA191&lpg=PA191&dq=Gypsy+%22flash+talk%22&source=bl&ots=exbdxGMtWr&sig=ACfU3U1Z8oFoVTuu3CRqB4LNrRFBleDcIw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiTg_fDyI3gAhWsxYMKHVx4AcEQ6AEwAXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=Gypsy%20%22flash%20talk%22&f=falseThe copy once here of Fawn(see also Faun, less than a tome, but hard to get through in an afternoon) McKay Brodie's Burton bio, "The Devil Drives" was left years ago at me Mum's. That book does not reference a mad passion of serial monogamy to marry Elizabeth Taylor twice given that the above is not about the guy who schtupps that Queen of the Nile, Cleopatra (Elizabeth Taylor), but rather the guy who famously searched for the source of the Nile - which could lead some searching past the classic crank call to a tobacco shop of "Do you have Prince Albert in the can? You do? Better let him out!" to Lake Albert and then on to the Nile.In Shakespeare's Antony and Cleopatra the latter speaks thusly of the former:
"His delights
Were dolphinlike; they showed his back above
The element they lived in."
I couldn't find that line in the budget-busting movie, "Cleopatra," but do remember that when Antony (Richard Burton) falls on his sword near the end of the film, he does so accidentally on porpoise.
Reactionary, your prose is flash talk.
You probably mean a “butcher[‘s] knife”
or a maybe “cimeter” (derived from scimitar but now mean different things) or “breaking knife”
A general butcher would use several different knives, each with its own function (“breaking” the animal into separate cuts, taking meat off the bone, dividing a whole cut into steaks, a cleaver for chopping thru bones, etc.) but someone who worked in a [dis] assembly line type processing plant might have a specialized job that called for him to use the same knife all the time.
He’s a supermarket meat cutter, not a processing plant butcher mostly slicing and wrapping Whatever it is, it’s very dark carbon steel? and that’s the only knife he uses.
Someone who is deboning all day with a 6 inch knife is going to hit bone occasionally, no matter how good he is, so that knife is going to wear down and be discarded, whether it takes 2 months or 2 years.
Meat cutters in markets are different from real butchers. They mostly slice and wrap.
They are starting to have some of their high-end knives made in Japan though.
I agree that wusthof aren’t very good compared to my trusty carbon steel sabatiers from Williams Sonoma
A knife with something like Hitachi ZDP-189 powdered metallurgy stainless steel will get stupid sharp, far better than your marketing-driven Sabatier sold at a big box store, and it will retain that edge for much longer than the latter, all the while having much greater rust-resistance... which is not a surprise given the technology that has gone into that super steel.
Mine never got rusty 3 blocks from the ocean in the fog belt. 30 years later with as needed sharpening they’re still fine. To get just the rind zest no pith with just a paring or 8 inch knife they have to be pretty sharp.
I have no need for knives used for gutting out dressing and butchering deer or slaughterhouse blades.
A knife with something like Hitachi ZDP-189 powdered metallurgy stainless steel will get stupid sharp, far better than your marketing-driven Sabatier sold at a big box store, and it will retain that edge for much longer than the latter, all the while having much greater rust-resistance... which is not a surprise given the technology that has gone into that super steel.
I bought my Sabatiers at Williams Sonoma decades ago, not a big box store.
Why don’t you start an ad campaign urging everyone to buy super dupper specialized $500 stainless steel hunting knives for slicing vegetables and cutting chickens?
There’s s big difference. Slicing is very precise, like slicing even pieces of bread vegetables and fruit.
Cutting is like opening up melon or squash so it can be cut into smaller pieces and then sliced into serving size pieces.
I don’t know all the terms. But I do a lot of different things for instance mincing so fine the onions get mushy or a big basil leaf turns into tiny pieces. Sharp knives are need for those things.
I don’t know what I do, but I never get rust.
I have some leather sheaths. I carry some knives in them, but I never store knives in them even though my gear is in a climate- (including humidity-) controlled room at home. For hard use, I use Thermoplastic (“Kydex”) sheaths. They are much more resistant to the elements and don’t absorb moisture.
The sheaths are leather and they keep them in the sheaths all the time and they live right on the ocean. But those knives are just for cutting up fish they catch.
EVERY. SINGLE. KNIFEMAKER.
But, you know what? Keep doing what you are doing. I know an old curmudgeon who still refuses to wear a seatbelt in a car (claims he "wants to be thrown free" in a collision). That guy will probably outlive all of us. If not, he'll go splat fast, as common sense, collision experiments, and actuarial science tell us.
That was the only store where you could buy carbon steel knives at the time.
What did you mean by this?
Botticelli girls but not blondes
The women Botticelli painted had the perfect faces and bodies Irish women have But most of his models were blondes. Most Irish women aren’t blondes but have the perfect faces of the Botticelli girls.
I believe that story. There was a big trade in kidnapping young children, keeping them hungry and abused for a few years to forget who they were and then selling them to the ship captains to take to the colonies for sale as indentured servants. Gypsies weren’t the only ones who did it.
Snatch and Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barells are two of the very few movies I have ever bought. They crack me up even though I know what’s coming.
Don’t know what happened to Guy Ritchie; maybe it was being married to Madonna.
I am a sucker for English crime movies. I especially like some that are based on real life events:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bank_Job
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_Boys
2) Professional boxing is virulent pornography. It is one, in an armory of such psychological weapons targeting European sexuality. Understand this armory and you are on the road to not only defending against, but counter-attacking the destruction of the white race. This has roots 600 million years old in male intrasexual selection. After a 6 million year overlay of eusocial evolution starting with CHLCA gang formation, sexuality -- real sexuality -- experienced an evolutionary instauration during the Paleolithic expansion of Cro Magnon into Europe. It was the recognition of this evolutionary direction as moral that led to the moral superiority of Europeans among all races. That morality is the culture of individual integrity born in the harsh winter conflicts over hunting territory between individual heads of nuclear family households consisting of a man, a woman, their children and their dogs. Such mutual hunts instaurated the 600 million year deep sexuality. It is the sexual perversion of such mutual hunts into, not only "boxing", but any appeal of last resort in dispute processing that does not pit two individuals embedded in nature against each other using tools/weapons they have been trained from birth to fabricate and use/wield themselves as individuals.
I've received endless mockery over this perception of the essence of Euroman's heritable moral superiority, born of the culture of individual integrity -- the conscious recognition of sacral sexuality. Such mockery is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
-Very interesting points and others (perhaps you as well) have written at great length about “bands of brothers” and monogamy as well as the avoidance of first cousin marriage (see “HBD Chicks’s” (?) old stuff), and so forth with respect to some (sadly, apparently only temporary) successes of Northern Europeans in particular. Like, I’m sure, many, I’ve had half-baked thoughts about why most (?) people are so much into “spectator sports” – that is to say, watching non-lethal individual and also team (which make for male-bonding) competitions.
On the lighter side:
“Sodom and Begorrha” is blasphemous mockery, but I hope that this boxing bit about the non-Irish “Bowery Boys” is not:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bowery_Boys
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowery_Boys
The mangling of English was a running joke:
etc.
Why don’t you start an ad campaign urging everyone to buy super dupper specialized $500 stainless steel hunting knives for slicing vegetables and cutting chickens?
I bought my last 5” Santoku in SG2 for $125 on sale a couple of years ago.
No, it wasn’t.
Every knifemaker will tell you NOT to store knives, even stainless steel knives, in a leather sheath. Because leather will absorb moisture (unless you are using something like horsehide, which is much more dense and moisture-resistant than cow hide) and then that moisture will corrode the blade, especially if that said moisture contains salt. Carry that knife in a leather sheath, by all means, but don’t store it in leather.
EVERY. SINGLE. KNIFEMAKER.
But, you know what? Keep doing what you are doing. I know an old curmudgeon who still refuses to wear a seatbelt in a car (claims he “wants to be thrown free” in a collision). That guy will probably outlive all of us. If not, he’ll go splat fast, as common sense, collision experiments, and actuarial science tell us.
Why don’t you start an ad campaign urging everyone to buy super dupper specialized $500 stainless steel hunting knives for slicing vegetables and cutting chickens?
Btw, the top two Sabatier brands now use stainless steel alloys, and middling ones at that. They are low/mid-tech sold at inflated William Sonoma prices.
Or perhaps not?
Even in these times, my wife had our younger daughter in her mid-forties, and judging by my teenage daughter's cohort, we're by far the oldest parents in that group.
Sorry for the delay in my reply as I go long periods without referring to Unz. Yes, my mother was close to 43 when I was born, along with a twin sister. I would agree that most of my contemporaries” mothers were younger.