The Unz Review: An Alternative Media Selection
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
Where's My Check?
🔊 Listen RSS
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • BShow CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Troll, or LOL with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used once per hour.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

From the New York Times:

For centuries, black music, forged in bondage, has been the sound of complete artistic freedom. No wonder everybody is always stealing it.
By Wesley Morris
AUG. 14, 2019

Something I’ve noticed growing in strength since 2008 is the feeling among black intellectuals like Mr. Morris that, while they haven’t actually composed any songs, they still deserve to get a monthly royalty check for the contributions of blacks to popular music. If F. Scott Fitzgerald’s granddaughter was getting a royalty check for The Great Gatsby until a year or two ago, why shouldn’t Wesley Morris get a royalty check for slave spirituals, owing to his racial relationship to the slaves of 154+ years ago?

It’s a perspective that I’d enjoy seeing explicitly articulated rather than just hinted at.

 
Hide 169 CommentsLeave a Comment
169 Comments to "Where's My Check?"
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
  1. slave spirituals

    Come, come, they were known as Negro Spirituals when I was growing up. We learned a couple at school.

    Anyway, did you know that supporters of the England rugby side sing “Swing Low, Sweet Chariot” in its support?

  2. Remember the farmers who weren’t actually farmers, but won millions in compensation from the U.S. taxpayer because some other farmers (some of whom were actually farmers) claimed discrimination?

    Will this money be accounted for in the coming reparations jamboree? Hint: it’s about as likely as accounting for several decades of violent crime.

    And oh, did I say millions? I meant billions. In just Pigford.

  3. Maybe white music company owners will sue black music company owners for stealing their techniques for ripping off artists?

  4. OT: Speaking of people who owe you a check… Chances are you’ve already come across this book, Steve, but if not, it sounds like this author basically expanded The World’s Most Important Graph into a book:

    Here’s Christopher Caldwell’s review:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2019/08/26/the-coming-migration-out-of-sub-saharan-africa/

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Thanks.
  5. By that logic, the prison-industrial complex must be major source of avant-garde muscial experimentation.

    That 1619 train just can’t be stopped!

  6. Black music is a thing of value which ought to be owned by black people because they created it.

    That ownership ought to be protected by American copyright law, which like American citizenship is a thing of value which is part of the common heritage of all mankind.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna

    Black music is a thing of value which ought to be owned by black people because they created it.
     
    That's right, bub, but the problem is that owning something also gives you the right to sell it, and blacks are notorious for trading in their things of value for items like Colt 45 Malt Liquor, and new 22" spinners for their cars.

    That ownership ought to be protected by American copyright law, which like American citizenship is a thing of value which is part of the common heritage of all mankind.
     
    Yep. American citizenship belongs to everyone but Americans.
    Question, though: what exactly did we trade it in for?
  7. Back in the last century, I listened to a black woman professor assert that as everybody knows that there would be no ‘American’; music without blacks, that the black race should get royalty checks on whites were given credit for. That led her to also declare that because blacks were characters in all Southern literature that blacks also should receive checks for sales of Willam Faulkner novels.

  8. Before being exposed to music created by whites, black music comprised of beating on primitive drums and shouting. Exposure to things like tuned instruments, harmonies, melodies, etc, allowed American blacks to imitate what they heard, and some of it evolved to sound pretty good. But this idea that blacks invented something that was then stolen by whitey; no.

  9. I am not sure of how conscious a phenomenon is is, but the current fetish of elite whites for putting all things black front and center along with the prominence of Roxanne Gay, Charles Blow, Leonard Pitts, and so on is that black cultural and political power hit its apogee about ten years ago. As the country gets less white, a) the share of the white population that actually wants to put black concerns firs will shrink dramatically, and b) the rising Latino and especially Asian populations don’t hold black culture or history in anywhere near the same regard as whites, and will pay a lot less attention than they are used to. I think the traditional high/low coalition on the left of whites and blacks is starting to recognize this, and we are seeing a last-ditch effort to try and cement the place blacks have in progressive politics/culture into place, but I would guess in less than a generation there is going to be a lot less interest amongst the public at large in being lectured about the importance of black music, hair, and political concerns.

    • Agree: William Badwhite
    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    Yes, wealthy Asians won't have any family lore built around an Abolitionist, Underground Railroad or Freedom Rider ancestor. This stuff just won't ring any bells with them.
    , @Polynikes
    I've heard Morris speak a few times. He's a guest on a movie podcast I listen to. He's not bright. Calling guys like him and Coates intellectuals is an insult to the few actual black intellectuals we have. Clarence Thomas shouldn't be lumped in with those two dopes.
    , @BenKenobi
    It’s possible that the “struggle” of teh blegs will perhaps be enshrined in some sort of “legacy minority” legal sop.

    Kind of like how in Canada we now have native land affirmations in every govt email.

    “We acknowledge that we live in a country built by ADOS” — or some such nonsense.
    , @nebulafox
    I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States. In reality they are about 13% of the populace. Not trivial, but about the same proportion as, say, Malays in Chinese-dominated Singapore. Afro-American birth rates are below replacement level, just like whites. Also like whites, they are leaning toward the dysgenic, unfortunately. The only racial groups in America that even at replacement level are Hispanics and Pacific Islanders-not above, at. No wonder elites are so fanatical about mass immigration. If it wasn't for that, good luck keeping the population levels artificially up: and wages artificially down, rents artificially high, competition for education, resources, etc so high, etc, etc.

    I think Unz was onto something when he suggested that one of the real motives of mass immigration was to flush black people out of major cities, and if that's the case, it is succeeding: cities have been getting less white, but they've also been getting less black.

    Interestingly enough, I think the same thing has happened with sexual minorities. Gays are about 1-2 percent of the populace in the United States. Even if we are generous with the amount of closeted cases or bisexuals who aren't interested in being part of gay culture and decline to be noted as such, I'm willing to bet the average American now thinks there are way more of them then there actually are. I'm also willing to bet that most don't realize that "camp" gays are a minority within the minority, which I suspect is a result of the media pandering to straight women who love the idea of male friends who share their interests and bring all the benefits of not being other women without bringing potentially unwelcome sexual or romantic interest. In practice, this tends to deeply annoy non-camp homosexual men. "No, I am *not* interested in going clothes shopping, and I'm definitely not interested in hearing about your boyfriend problems..."

    , @Hopscotch
    A factor that is rarely mentioned in the rise of "Woke Capitalism" is the role of skyrocketing consumer debt, which gives minorities disproportionate buying power in consumer goods. Whereas a CPG brand would once tailor its marketing to a middle-class, white shopper, it now tailors it to a subprime, off-white shopper, who shows up with a VISA card.

    If Trump wanted to crack down on this, he would promote anti-usury laws, which worked well throughout the 20th century, until they were undermined in the late 70's. Of course, that would require Trump recognizing that much of the economic boom is being funded with credit cards, and the like.

    https://static.businessinsider.com/image/5821faee691e882c4e8b4a32-750.jpg
    , @Dave Pinsen
    That’s Wesley Yang’s theory as well, but I’m not so sure.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1162662948709502977?s=21
    , @ATBOTL

    As the country gets less white, a) the share of the white population that actually wants to put black concerns firs will shrink dramatically, and b) the rising Latino and especially Asian populations don’t hold black culture or history in anywhere near the same regard as whites, and will pay a lot less attention than they are used to.
     
    That's not what we are seeing at all. Young Asians and Hispanics overwhelmingly embrace black pop culture, whereas whites are more divided. The mainstream pop culture is just black now, period. Virtually all young non-whites are inside of this corporate black pop culture. Whites still have large subcultures like country music, metal, punk and the alt-right that resist the total blackifiction of everything.

    Get over this fantasy that a more Hispanics and Asian America will somehow cause anything good to happen. It won't. Hispanic and Asians are extremely conformist and eat up all the product that is served to them with enthusiasm. As Steve noted in that post about all the Asians and Indians celebrating the Raptors winning the NBA title, young non-whites see blacks as a totem of all non-whites against whites.
    , @Mr. Grey
    Good point. Black racialists are going to really miss the White majority. Do they think Koreans or Mexicans are going to want to keep giving them free stuff? Other people have no guilt about slavery (a cherished African tradition by the way). In the future Brown America, black communities will be forgotten and isolated in impoverished outer suburbs.
    , @Hypnotoad666

    the rising Latino and especially Asian populations don’t hold black culture or history in anywhere near the same regard as whites, and will pay a lot less attention than they are used to.
     
    Ditto for new "white" immigrants like Russians, Armenians, etc. I think they are mystified at the way progressive whites see blacks as their spirit animals.
  10. That’s right. White writers, performing artists and inventors never get bamboozled out of their intellectual properties by unscrupulous agents, managers, lawyers and corporations.

  11. White musicians like Stephen Foster have also had their music misappropriated from the public domain. Ray Charles grew up in Madison County, FL close to the source of the Sewanee River, and had his first hit with this “autobiographical” song.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    Ray Charles also culturally appropriated Hoagy Carmichael's Georgia On My Mind, the cad.
  12. It’s kind of like White “nationalists” boasting about White accomplishments when they themselves have none to their names.

  13. OT: Academic Admits Research Suppressed for Ideological Reasons on Freakonomics Radio.

    Freakonomics Radio did a piece on the alleged male-female wage gap. Data and funding from Uber. During the set-up, one of the academics astonishingly admits that actual fact-based research on the alleged male-female wage gap is not done because of “discomfort”. (I think that was his exact word.) Nearly fell out of my chair. Yes, I’m filling in the blank by calling it “suppression” without substantiation. The 7% wage gap favoring men was discovered to be explained by stuff like men drive faster. Worth a listen.

  14. white male losers don’t like justice? Imagine that. Dotards gotta doh.

    white nationalism is gecgreat evil of our time that we must defeat by any means necessary

  15. @Jonathan Mason
    White musicians like Stephen Foster have also had their music misappropriated from the public domain. Ray Charles grew up in Madison County, FL close to the source of the Sewanee River, and had his first hit with this "autobiographical" song.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v53KyS90mg0

    Ray Charles also culturally appropriated Hoagy Carmichael’s Georgia On My Mind, the cad.

  16. Import the music, not the people.

    I recall Paul Simon putting out the explicitly African influenced album Graceland as a sort of homage to Black music. He seemed mainly to get criticized for cultural appropriation.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Los Lobos says Paul Simon flat out stole a song they were rehearsing for next album and put it on his Graceland. The first time I heard it on the radio, I said: Oh, that's Los Lobos playing guitars.
  17. anon[171] • Disclaimer says:

    The black contribution to popular music is, I suspect, overstated. I doubt you’d find a musicologist politically-incorrect enough to go there, but it all goes back to the blues, and the blues, when you get right down to it, is just British folk musics, grown up across the Atlantic and mixed together. Blacks perhaps contributed a certain style, i.e. they had an influence on performance, but not composing. Guess which one would merit royalties.

  18. anonymous[182] • Disclaimer says:

    Seems to be another variation of the ‘send mo’ money’ theme. The instruments and amplification aren’t black inventions so perhaps they need to acknowledge their debt for their successes in this area. Not going to happen though. Most black music is at the mental level of a fifteen year old anyway.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Smart blacks (of which there are numerically not many, a given) in the jazz world composed things that made the most learned composers and music educators of Europe-not all, but many- truly amazed. At its best, American black music was exceptional and appealed to many of the finest tastes.

    That doesn't mean that the average black is more talented than the average white nine year old at music, nor that he or she can run a society as well as white nine year olds, let alone the best white adults.

    Relatively speaking, music and athletics are black strong points. Some are even decent classical performers, maybe not the very best, but respectable.

    Organizing a society, obviously, is a black weak point.

    The total dysfunction of underclass black neighborhoods is proof of that.
  19. If the expectation of paid royalties does become a fully articulated policy position, should we assume that only current black musicians in the US with antecedents once enslaved be so remunerated? Or, more generally, would the royalties be spread among all contemporaries in the black community- both here (USA) and abroad? After all, ancestry… But, if the latter, might this not become an avenue for world wide royalty reparations, owed by all nations that consume music with black/African roots (you know, drums)- of course paid only by non-blacks with ears? It would seem that if this course were taken, more money from more locales could be leveraged- FOREVER-….. and have a double dipping effect should any potential US only reparations be awarded.

  20. @Arclight
    I am not sure of how conscious a phenomenon is is, but the current fetish of elite whites for putting all things black front and center along with the prominence of Roxanne Gay, Charles Blow, Leonard Pitts, and so on is that black cultural and political power hit its apogee about ten years ago. As the country gets less white, a) the share of the white population that actually wants to put black concerns firs will shrink dramatically, and b) the rising Latino and especially Asian populations don't hold black culture or history in anywhere near the same regard as whites, and will pay a lot less attention than they are used to. I think the traditional high/low coalition on the left of whites and blacks is starting to recognize this, and we are seeing a last-ditch effort to try and cement the place blacks have in progressive politics/culture into place, but I would guess in less than a generation there is going to be a lot less interest amongst the public at large in being lectured about the importance of black music, hair, and political concerns.

    Yes, wealthy Asians won’t have any family lore built around an Abolitionist, Underground Railroad or Freedom Rider ancestor. This stuff just won’t ring any bells with them.

  21. @Arclight
    I am not sure of how conscious a phenomenon is is, but the current fetish of elite whites for putting all things black front and center along with the prominence of Roxanne Gay, Charles Blow, Leonard Pitts, and so on is that black cultural and political power hit its apogee about ten years ago. As the country gets less white, a) the share of the white population that actually wants to put black concerns firs will shrink dramatically, and b) the rising Latino and especially Asian populations don't hold black culture or history in anywhere near the same regard as whites, and will pay a lot less attention than they are used to. I think the traditional high/low coalition on the left of whites and blacks is starting to recognize this, and we are seeing a last-ditch effort to try and cement the place blacks have in progressive politics/culture into place, but I would guess in less than a generation there is going to be a lot less interest amongst the public at large in being lectured about the importance of black music, hair, and political concerns.

    I’ve heard Morris speak a few times. He’s a guest on a movie podcast I listen to. He’s not bright. Calling guys like him and Coates intellectuals is an insult to the few actual black intellectuals we have. Clarence Thomas shouldn’t be lumped in with those two dopes.

  22. Steve’s hero Ben Franklin famously said that the Constitutional Convention gave us a republic, if we can keep it.

    We may not keep it much longer. The NYT in particular is working hard to destroy the foundations.

    Democracy doesn’t work in many, maybe most, countries, for lots of different reasons, among them being stupidity, craziness, and tribalism.

    The open borders stuff being pushed by the Dems (with free health care for the illegals being the cherry on top!) is almost as crazy, and certainly more harmful if implemented, than the idea that we should cut out the hearts of a few hundred children every year to propitiate the Gods of Diversity. How can a democracy work if people in general don’t recognize this level of insanity?

    This NYT 1619 project may end up being a good thing. It’s so over-the-top that it will wake some white people up, maybe enough of them to get Trump re-elected. It’s hard to be optimistic about what comes after Trump, though.

  23. @Arclight
    I am not sure of how conscious a phenomenon is is, but the current fetish of elite whites for putting all things black front and center along with the prominence of Roxanne Gay, Charles Blow, Leonard Pitts, and so on is that black cultural and political power hit its apogee about ten years ago. As the country gets less white, a) the share of the white population that actually wants to put black concerns firs will shrink dramatically, and b) the rising Latino and especially Asian populations don't hold black culture or history in anywhere near the same regard as whites, and will pay a lot less attention than they are used to. I think the traditional high/low coalition on the left of whites and blacks is starting to recognize this, and we are seeing a last-ditch effort to try and cement the place blacks have in progressive politics/culture into place, but I would guess in less than a generation there is going to be a lot less interest amongst the public at large in being lectured about the importance of black music, hair, and political concerns.

    It’s possible that the “struggle” of teh blegs will perhaps be enshrined in some sort of “legacy minority” legal sop.

    Kind of like how in Canada we now have native land affirmations in every govt email.

    “We acknowledge that we live in a country built by ADOS” — or some such nonsense.

  24. Perhaps black music is artistically exhausted and hence on its way out. We have had rap now since the late 1970s, something like 40 years by now. The 40 years before that, blacks came up with blues, rock, jazz, soul, disco.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    I believe December 5th 2019 will mark the 40th anniversary of the first rap song I ever heard on Top 40 AM radio in Houston: Rapper's Delight. I said to myself: "This is a good novelty tune. I bet this kind of gimmick will be popular for the next 12 or even 18 months."
    , @Kyle
    Rap died with biggie. Nobody actually “raps” anymore. Dominant hip hop of the last 20 years has been heavily dance, pop, or electronic music. If it includes elements of rap, the rapping is not the focus of the music. I don’t think black music broadly is stylistically exhausted but rap was exhausted 20 years ago. I think something like punk is bound to make a comeback. Music is super gay right now.
    , @Known Fact
    Rap is more than 50 years old if you count the influence of Gil Scott-Heron (who also did plenty of listenable actual music)
  25. One of these mornings I’m going to read Steve’s blog and learn that the New York Times is insisting that even my favorite obscure 19th Century European classical guitar composers were really all black.

    Or Muslim.

    Or both.

  26. Meanwhile, here’s a NYT article that doesn’t jibe well with the latest Narrative:

    French Waiter Shot Dead Over Slow Sandwich Service, Witnesses Say

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/18/world/europe/france-waiter-killed-sandwich.html?action=click&module=Latest&pgtype=Homepage

    NYT:
    But the shooting in Noisy-Le-Grand had all the markings of a singular burst of violence. It is part of the Seine-Saint-Denis department, on the outskirts of Paris, where poor social conditions have often led to crimes and social unrest.

    News of the killing drew angry reactions on Twitter, including from Jean Messiha, a top member of Marine Le Pen’s National Rally, who linked the shooting to “mass immigration.”

    But Sylvain Thézard, chief of staff of Noisy-Le-Grand’s mayor, pushed back at any link between the killing and immigration.

    “We are shocked by the comments on social networks that make a lot of confusion,” he said. “Crime rates are declining in our city. This murder is by no means the result of a deeper problem. It’s nothing but sad news.”
    END QUOTE

    There’s a link in the article to Jean Messiha’s “Angry reaction” on Twitter:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JeanMessiha/status/1162846183548694529

    The NYT article of course does not say what the perp looked like, but the “angry reactions” on Twitter alluded to suggest that he was vibrant. The Twitter page probably does give a description, but I don’t read French.

    And the take-away message for NYT readers is of course that the incident is just “a singular burst of violence”, not in any way “the result of a deeper problem”, and that it is not connected in the least with immigration, so nothing to see here, folks, just move along.

  27. just more Black Supremacism.

    according to Black Supremacism, the ruling ideology of contemporary America, blacks are actually responsible for everything. Blacks built everything, made everything, are everything.

    • Agree: 95Theses
  28. Monty Python’s take on the above.

  29. What’s called “black music” was actually stolen from the Celtic music of the Scotch-Irish who lived in the South. Black “spirituals” are songs stolen and copied from English composers using European instruments. Even their dopey “rap” is just bad beat poetry. Primitive music in Africa bears no resemblance to black music in the US.

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @AceDeuce
    Yes. Many of the hymns and spirituals most popular with groids were written by whites. Many musical groids, including Scott Joplin, had white teachers/mentors.
  30. For centuries, white invention, forged through hard work, have been the engine of human progress. No wonder everybody is always stealing it.

  31. That’s the whole problem originally behind cultural appropriation–black musicians having their work covered or adapted by white musicians, who then made more money being more palatable to the white general public. (Eminem was guilty enough to write a whole song about it.) It makes some sense as many indigenous American musical idioms like jazz, blues, and rap came out of black culture, and rock and roll had heavy black influences. From the HBD point of view, it’s what happens when musical talent isn’t accompanied (in a statistical sense) by ‘g’–you get ripped off. (Frequently by, ah, other groups with more talent in business…)

    Of course, it metamorphosized into Twitter mobs attacking high school girls who wear Chinese dresses to prom.

    At some point all the self-flagellation and cultural cringe from lefty white liberals makes me wonder if the whole thing is some sort of displaced BDSM. “Oh, we are so horrible, here are three books about how horrible we are, please tell us how bad we are…” I think it was Derb who brought up ‘ethnomasochism’. And, of course, kink is popular now, though I kind of wonder about all those self-flagellating (literally) medieval monks.

    • Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager

    At some point all the self-flagellation and cultural cringe from lefty white liberals makes me wonder if the whole thing is some sort of displaced BDSM.
     
    It's perfectly commendable empathy for those less well-off than oneself converted into a suicidal weapon by seekers of power.
    , @Paleo Liberal
    There were two sides of the story with cultural appropriation of black music by white musicians.

    Yes, the white musicians usually made more money off of it. OTOH, the appropriation gave the black musicians more exposure, and led to greater fame.

    For example, Chuck Berry's music was constantly appropriated by the Beatles. Sometimes it was direct covers, esp. George Harrison doing "Roll Over Beethoven". Other times the Beatles stole parts of his song, most famously Lennon stealing parts of Berry's 1956 song "You Can't Catch Me for the Beatles song "Come Together"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKrHzps0XM

    Berry was p*ssed, but he knew the Beatles had made him more popular. Chuck Berry and John Lennon even performed together, which helped spread Berry's fame.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKrHzps0XM

    Eventually Berry sued Lennon for plagiarism. They reached a friendly agreement. In Lennon's "Rock and Roll" album, Lennon covered three of Chick Berry's songs, including "You Can't Catch Me".
    , @Anon
    Black musicians have always had the ability to make their music more white if they wanted. They could hear white music on the radio the same way anyone else did and copy its tropes. They chose not to, because if they did, they'd lose the core audience that could always be counted on to show up for their gigs. Many were just too timid to try leaving their native group.

    Rappers can sound more white and populist if they want to and have bigger hits, but they have that timidity characteristic of peasants of not wanting to leave the hood behind. They don't want to get cut off from the people they know or take flack for it. Remember the Japanese saying, "The raised nail gets hammered down?"
    , @obwandiyag
    I like how you think M&Ms writes "songs."
  32. Much of the best American music came from the confluence of a variety of different European, African and Native styles of music. Native influence is much bigger in Hawaiian music, which is a synthesis of, among other things, Native Hawaiian, Portuguese, and Mainland American music, partly because Native Hawaiian music was so much better than American Indian music, and Native Hawaiians love to play music.

    There are very few songs which show much Native American influence. One example is Lead Belly’s Green Corn, written about the Indian Green Corn dance. Like many great American musicians, Lead Belly had quite a bit of Indian blood.

    • Replies: @ATBOTL
    Is this post a joke? What is the musical influence of indigenous music on this piece? The tonal structures, rhythms?

    I doubt Lead Belly had any indigenous blood, he looked 100% black.
  33. Once again, we see that when it comes to gettin’ them dollars, “race” incontrovertibly and indubitably exists, even if only phenotypically. It’s a mere bigot’s belief when one attempts to apply “race” to “bad” stuff.

    • Agree: fish
  34. The specific contributions of blacks to Western culture and science only stand out because they have been so minute. It is pretty much taken for granted that the vast majority of culture and science has been created by whites. It is so much taken for granted that few people really think about it.

    A few years ago there was a big kerfuffle over some white girl who wore a “Chinese” dress to her prom. Some random Chinese-American idiot called her out on her cultural appropriation. No one ever bothered to challenge him as to why he was questioning her “appropriation” using the English language.

    Blacks, of course, will justly point out that for most of them their arrival here was involuntary, so questioning their use of English would be a bit unfair. But there are plenty of other cultural and scientific inventions they needn’t feel forced to use, such as pretty much every instrument used to create music, not to mention virtually all of the technology used to record and transmit it.

    • Agree: bomag, Kylie
    • Replies: @Hippopotamusdrome


    white girl who wore a “Chinese” dress to her prom

     

    Two can play that game...
    Japanese Greasers in Ueno Park
    , @LiveFreeOrDie
    You are correct. Besides music and sports, what else have they got?
    , @HammerJack

    Blacks, of course, will justly point out that for most of them their arrival here was involuntary
     
    In any recent ten-year period, more Africans have arrived in America of their own free will and at their own expense than were transported here during the entire 200 years of the slave trade.
    , @95Theses
    Not to mention the fact that said dress was very likely fabricated on a power loom, all courtesy of white inventors Edmund Cartwright and John Kay.
  35. Anonymous[425] • Disclaimer says:

    Actually, black music forged in bondage had far less traction than black music after slavery when Negroes delighted in having fun.

    Even in church music, blacks went from the Negro Spiritual to Gospel. NS has been dead for a long time.

    And Rap was most certainly not forged in bondage.

  36. I don’t need to read the article; the title pretty much says it all – and it has all been said before (though I’m not sure there has been any black music worth bragging about or “stealing” since the jazz of the late 1950s – Miles Davis, Duke Ellington, Sonny Rollins, etc.).

    But how fortunate for Wesley Morris that he can publicly proclaim and take unearned vicarious pride in the past (long past) cultural accomplishments of his RACE, while meekly suggesting that it’s “OK to be White” will get me in six different kinds of trouble before lunch. Who is oppressed (or maybe better, suppressed) here?

    • Replies: @Pericles

    (though I’m not sure there has been any black music worth bragging about or “stealing” since the jazz of the late 1950s – Miles Davis, Duke Ellington, Sonny Rollins, etc.).

     

    The only reason jazz still exists and is at all talked about is the stale pale male.
  37. @SFG
    That's the whole problem originally behind cultural appropriation--black musicians having their work covered or adapted by white musicians, who then made more money being more palatable to the white general public. (Eminem was guilty enough to write a whole song about it.) It makes some sense as many indigenous American musical idioms like jazz, blues, and rap came out of black culture, and rock and roll had heavy black influences. From the HBD point of view, it's what happens when musical talent isn't accompanied (in a statistical sense) by 'g'--you get ripped off. (Frequently by, ah, other groups with more talent in business...)

    Of course, it metamorphosized into Twitter mobs attacking high school girls who wear Chinese dresses to prom.

    At some point all the self-flagellation and cultural cringe from lefty white liberals makes me wonder if the whole thing is some sort of displaced BDSM. "Oh, we are so horrible, here are three books about how horrible we are, please tell us how bad we are..." I think it was Derb who brought up 'ethnomasochism'. And, of course, kink is popular now, though I kind of wonder about all those self-flagellating (literally) medieval monks.

    At some point all the self-flagellation and cultural cringe from lefty white liberals makes me wonder if the whole thing is some sort of displaced BDSM.

    It’s perfectly commendable empathy for those less well-off than oneself converted into a suicidal weapon by seekers of power.

  38. “It’s a perspective that I’d enjoy seeing explicitly articulated rather than just hinted at”

    Perhaps Genius Coates can help flesh out the thesis in a NYT monogram.

  39. @SFG
    That's the whole problem originally behind cultural appropriation--black musicians having their work covered or adapted by white musicians, who then made more money being more palatable to the white general public. (Eminem was guilty enough to write a whole song about it.) It makes some sense as many indigenous American musical idioms like jazz, blues, and rap came out of black culture, and rock and roll had heavy black influences. From the HBD point of view, it's what happens when musical talent isn't accompanied (in a statistical sense) by 'g'--you get ripped off. (Frequently by, ah, other groups with more talent in business...)

    Of course, it metamorphosized into Twitter mobs attacking high school girls who wear Chinese dresses to prom.

    At some point all the self-flagellation and cultural cringe from lefty white liberals makes me wonder if the whole thing is some sort of displaced BDSM. "Oh, we are so horrible, here are three books about how horrible we are, please tell us how bad we are..." I think it was Derb who brought up 'ethnomasochism'. And, of course, kink is popular now, though I kind of wonder about all those self-flagellating (literally) medieval monks.

    There were two sides of the story with cultural appropriation of black music by white musicians.

    Yes, the white musicians usually made more money off of it. OTOH, the appropriation gave the black musicians more exposure, and led to greater fame.

    For example, Chuck Berry’s music was constantly appropriated by the Beatles. Sometimes it was direct covers, esp. George Harrison doing “Roll Over Beethoven”. Other times the Beatles stole parts of his song, most famously Lennon stealing parts of Berry’s 1956 song “You Can’t Catch Me for the Beatles song “Come Together”

    Berry was p*ssed, but he knew the Beatles had made him more popular. Chuck Berry and John Lennon even performed together, which helped spread Berry’s fame.

    Eventually Berry sued Lennon for plagiarism. They reached a friendly agreement. In Lennon’s “Rock and Roll” album, Lennon covered three of Chick Berry’s songs, including “You Can’t Catch Me”.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    My apologies. I put in the same video twice. Bad Paleo! No treat!

    Here is the video of Lennon and Berry together. And that is not a cat wailing in the background,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbGuxGGOIV0
    , @the one they call Desanex
    The Beatles only borrowed one line from “You Can’t Catch Me”: “Here come a flat-top, he was movin’ up with me” became “Here come ol’ Flat-Top, he come groovin’ up slowly” in “Come Together”. It was a quote from or an allusion to the Berry song. Anybody but Chuck Berry would’ve considered it a flattering tribute.
    , @obwandiyag
    Chuck Berry's first hit, Maybelline, was stolen from Ida Red (who knows who really wrote it, but probably a white man[or even more likelyly, a white woman]) by Bob Wills. American folk music, from which all of this springs, arises out of symbiosis between black and white, with a touch of Spanish, and even, some have argued, a tiny smidgeon of American Indian. Just one of the many proofs is that traditional African music does not sound at all like American music, even like the most traditional of blueses.
    , @Jack Armstrong
    The suit was brought by Moishe Levy. He owned the rights to the song not Berry.
    , @Anonymous
    Chuck wrote the lyrics, the music was another black, Johnnie Johnson, a blues piano player.
    He got it from othr blacks, who adapted white and black sources. It goes back to Chick Webb, Cab Calloway and the now forgotten Slim Gaillard.

    In the remarkable documentary by Taylor "Mr. Helen Mirren, so you know I'm bejingled!" Hackford,
    Hail Hail Rock and Roll , you see the look on Berry acolyte Keith Richards' face when he figures it out.

    The key (in which the music is played) is the key.
    Jazzbo crap on how one should be able to play in all 12 keys aside, guitar players gravitate to keys in which there are open strings, because they like to hear the open string and because it makes playing easier. Chuck's performances often in flat keys, which piano players like, not guitar players.

    Johnny Johnson's key.
    Sorry, the relevant clip eludes me on YouTube, but the movie is worth watching.

    Chuck was also always one with the girls. Wonder if he'll make an apperance in this one's upcomng autobiography...

    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3E-GeG8VKPA/WM3VcRkfRWI/AAAAAAADUqw/Fwz6zpvucNogrvU3DUzErfuWCniTIilOgCLcB/s400/debbie%2Bharry%2Bchuck%2Bberry.jpg
  40. If they’re making all this music using the tempered scale, then they’ve been blatantly ripping off White music. As someone who looks more or less like a possible direct descendent of J.S. Bach’s little known 27th child Albrecht Berthold (“Al B.”) Bach, they might as well send the check to me.

  41. @Paleo Liberal
    There were two sides of the story with cultural appropriation of black music by white musicians.

    Yes, the white musicians usually made more money off of it. OTOH, the appropriation gave the black musicians more exposure, and led to greater fame.

    For example, Chuck Berry's music was constantly appropriated by the Beatles. Sometimes it was direct covers, esp. George Harrison doing "Roll Over Beethoven". Other times the Beatles stole parts of his song, most famously Lennon stealing parts of Berry's 1956 song "You Can't Catch Me for the Beatles song "Come Together"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKrHzps0XM

    Berry was p*ssed, but he knew the Beatles had made him more popular. Chuck Berry and John Lennon even performed together, which helped spread Berry's fame.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKrHzps0XM

    Eventually Berry sued Lennon for plagiarism. They reached a friendly agreement. In Lennon's "Rock and Roll" album, Lennon covered three of Chick Berry's songs, including "You Can't Catch Me".

    My apologies. I put in the same video twice. Bad Paleo! No treat!

    Here is the video of Lennon and Berry together. And that is not a cat wailing in the background,

    • Replies: @Anonymous

    Here is the video of Lennon and Berry together. And that is not a cat wailing in the background,
     
    The crap foisted upon the American public ... yuck.
    , @gregor
    Bill Burr has a hilarious Yoko rant about that video.

    https://youtu.be/T4K07Kz7M8Q
  42. Is there anything whiter that a Blues festival?

    The great Blues revival of the mid-1960s was notable for the fact that while millions of white teenagers embraced the Blues, their black counterparts had no interest in it.

    • Agree: George Taylor
    • Replies: @MBlanc46
    Not quite correct. I was a regular attendee of the Chicago Blues Festival in the eighties and nineties. Yes, the crowd was majority white. But there was always a significant contingent of black women that came to listen to the popular music of their youth.
  43. @Arclight
    I am not sure of how conscious a phenomenon is is, but the current fetish of elite whites for putting all things black front and center along with the prominence of Roxanne Gay, Charles Blow, Leonard Pitts, and so on is that black cultural and political power hit its apogee about ten years ago. As the country gets less white, a) the share of the white population that actually wants to put black concerns firs will shrink dramatically, and b) the rising Latino and especially Asian populations don't hold black culture or history in anywhere near the same regard as whites, and will pay a lot less attention than they are used to. I think the traditional high/low coalition on the left of whites and blacks is starting to recognize this, and we are seeing a last-ditch effort to try and cement the place blacks have in progressive politics/culture into place, but I would guess in less than a generation there is going to be a lot less interest amongst the public at large in being lectured about the importance of black music, hair, and political concerns.

    I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States. In reality they are about 13% of the populace. Not trivial, but about the same proportion as, say, Malays in Chinese-dominated Singapore. Afro-American birth rates are below replacement level, just like whites. Also like whites, they are leaning toward the dysgenic, unfortunately. The only racial groups in America that even at replacement level are Hispanics and Pacific Islanders-not above, at. No wonder elites are so fanatical about mass immigration. If it wasn’t for that, good luck keeping the population levels artificially up: and wages artificially down, rents artificially high, competition for education, resources, etc so high, etc, etc.

    I think Unz was onto something when he suggested that one of the real motives of mass immigration was to flush black people out of major cities, and if that’s the case, it is succeeding: cities have been getting less white, but they’ve also been getting less black.

    Interestingly enough, I think the same thing has happened with sexual minorities. Gays are about 1-2 percent of the populace in the United States. Even if we are generous with the amount of closeted cases or bisexuals who aren’t interested in being part of gay culture and decline to be noted as such, I’m willing to bet the average American now thinks there are way more of them then there actually are. I’m also willing to bet that most don’t realize that “camp” gays are a minority within the minority, which I suspect is a result of the media pandering to straight women who love the idea of male friends who share their interests and bring all the benefits of not being other women without bringing potentially unwelcome sexual or romantic interest. In practice, this tends to deeply annoy non-camp homosexual men. “No, I am *not* interested in going clothes shopping, and I’m definitely not interested in hearing about your boyfriend problems…”

    • Replies: @Laurence Whelk

    I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States.
     
    And all black men are well-behaved, well-groomed and married to White and Asian women, according to every TV, print and billboard ad I see.
    , @Jonathan Mason

    Gays are about 1-2 percent of the populace in the United States.
     
    I would have thought at least 50%, but perhaps I have been watching too much TV! In truth I have hardly watched any TV in the last 25 years, but gays are probably vastly overrated in all kinds of entertainment media such as movies and TV, so that creates an illusion that they are all around us.

    In music it has been standard procedure for decades for recording artists and performers to dress up in androgenous stylings and fashions designed to shock parents, to the point that even Michael Jackson was regarded as kind of normal apart from the single glove, the amputated nose, and the fact that he started life as an African-American, but converted late in life.

    It used to be the case that people were obviously gay, like Liberace, but at least had the decency to deny it for public consumption and for the sake of the children and sued people who said he was gay, right up to the time that he died of AIDS.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberace_v_Daily_Mirror

    For some inexplicable reason the venerable eternally young bachelor boy pop star Cliff Richard comes to mind with this song, which proved to be highly prophetic as far as he was concerned.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE_1NB8DN08

    As Cole Porter wrote, in 1934:

    In olden days a glimpse of stocking
    Was looked on as something shocking
    Now heaven knows, anything
    goes
    , @Colin Wright
    '...I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States. In reality they are about 13% of the populace....'

    This is perhaps a red herring, but blacks also 'stand out' more.

    Aside from the detail that you're naturally going to pay more attention to the crocodile sharing the swimming hole with you than the water buffalo, they're just out more, and they're louder.

    Two striking examples from my personal experience.

    We were once visiting someone who was living in a smallish housing product. Initially, it appeared everyone was black; that's everyone who was loitering outside. It was only around day three or so that I realized actually, most of the people there were non-black, if not precisely white. It's just that they only briefly appeared in the morning on their way to work or school and then briefly reappeared in the afternoon on their way back home from work or school as they scurried quickly into the relative safety of their apartments.

    The second time was when I went up to my son's high school. From immediately outside the administration building, it sounded as if the student body was entirely black; that's everyone you could hear. It was only after entering the building that it became apparent that the school was at most a third black.

    , @Lurker
    I recall a similar survey where people were asked what they thought the gay percentage was, again massively overestimated. Something like 25%. A delusion that can only result from the MSM.
    , @Lot
    “rock and roll had heavy black influences”

    Constantly overstated.

    Elvis generally, and blues covers like House of the Rising Sun: Yes.

    Rock Around the Clock, Oh Boy!, Train Kept a Rollin, Wake up Little Suzie, I Want to Hold Your Hand, Surfin USA: No. All highly original sounds from Anglosphere whites.

    And that’s just the first era. Rock got less black every year since.

    And the Beatles, Stones, and Yardbirds all became bigger hits as they moved away from their earlier blues sounds.

    , @jcd1974

    I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States.
     
    Blacks believe they comprise a much larger segment of the American than they actually do. A significant number of blacks believe they comprise 50% or more of the population. This has a real impact on their expectations for society.

    Something I've noticed recently is that Hollywood has changed the "4 Friends Rule", whereby in every movie or TV show if there are four friends one must be black. Now it's the "3 Friends Rule", and one of every three must be black. Soon it'll be 2 Friends. Meanwhile in the real world people are mainly friends with their own race.
    , @Father O'Hara
    Are you a "non camp"?
  44. You can’t say Chuck Berry couldn’t write a tune. He wrote it over and over and over.

    Buddy Rich was a frequent guest on Douglas’s show. But Mike was careful not to invite him this day. If Rich hated country music for being “simple”, imagine what he would say about Berry. Both men were rank assholes, and it would have been fun to watch them duke it out. (And J&Y break out in “Give Peace a Chance”.)

    Douglas seems to have turned Yoko’s mike down. At another performance by this lineup, she comes up front to wail out of the blue, and Berry gives her a glare to inform her he’d like to perform Hiroshima on her.

    BTW, for those to whom it matters, Mike was a Mick. Douglas was born Dowd, not Demsky.

    • Replies: @AceDeuce
    Berry wan't above ripping others off either. His hit song "You Never Can Tell" was lifted from Mitchell Torok' s ( a white man who was a Hungarian immigrant to the U.S.) country hit "Caribbean" from 10-15 years earlier
  45. @Paleo Liberal
    My apologies. I put in the same video twice. Bad Paleo! No treat!

    Here is the video of Lennon and Berry together. And that is not a cat wailing in the background,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbGuxGGOIV0

    Here is the video of Lennon and Berry together. And that is not a cat wailing in the background,

    The crap foisted upon the American public … yuck.

  46. Some true cases, “The Lion Sleeps Tonight” is one.

    Mind you those responsible were as White as Epstein but I can’t see that being mentioned by the NYT.

  47. @nebulafox
    I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States. In reality they are about 13% of the populace. Not trivial, but about the same proportion as, say, Malays in Chinese-dominated Singapore. Afro-American birth rates are below replacement level, just like whites. Also like whites, they are leaning toward the dysgenic, unfortunately. The only racial groups in America that even at replacement level are Hispanics and Pacific Islanders-not above, at. No wonder elites are so fanatical about mass immigration. If it wasn't for that, good luck keeping the population levels artificially up: and wages artificially down, rents artificially high, competition for education, resources, etc so high, etc, etc.

    I think Unz was onto something when he suggested that one of the real motives of mass immigration was to flush black people out of major cities, and if that's the case, it is succeeding: cities have been getting less white, but they've also been getting less black.

    Interestingly enough, I think the same thing has happened with sexual minorities. Gays are about 1-2 percent of the populace in the United States. Even if we are generous with the amount of closeted cases or bisexuals who aren't interested in being part of gay culture and decline to be noted as such, I'm willing to bet the average American now thinks there are way more of them then there actually are. I'm also willing to bet that most don't realize that "camp" gays are a minority within the minority, which I suspect is a result of the media pandering to straight women who love the idea of male friends who share their interests and bring all the benefits of not being other women without bringing potentially unwelcome sexual or romantic interest. In practice, this tends to deeply annoy non-camp homosexual men. "No, I am *not* interested in going clothes shopping, and I'm definitely not interested in hearing about your boyfriend problems..."

    I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States.

    And all black men are well-behaved, well-groomed and married to White and Asian women, according to every TV, print and billboard ad I see.

  48. @Wilkey
    The specific contributions of blacks to Western culture and science only stand out because they have been so minute. It is pretty much taken for granted that the vast majority of culture and science has been created by whites. It is so much taken for granted that few people really think about it.

    A few years ago there was a big kerfuffle over some white girl who wore a "Chinese" dress to her prom. Some random Chinese-American idiot called her out on her cultural appropriation. No one ever bothered to challenge him as to why he was questioning her "appropriation" using the English language.

    Blacks, of course, will justly point out that for most of them their arrival here was involuntary, so questioning their use of English would be a bit unfair. But there are plenty of other cultural and scientific inventions they needn't feel forced to use, such as pretty much every instrument used to create music, not to mention virtually all of the technology used to record and transmit it.

    white girl who wore a “Chinese” dress to her prom

    Two can play that game…
    Japanese Greasers in Ueno Park

  49. Yo they wants to get paid. That be what it about. The hand is always out for the hand out.

  50. @nebulafox
    I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States. In reality they are about 13% of the populace. Not trivial, but about the same proportion as, say, Malays in Chinese-dominated Singapore. Afro-American birth rates are below replacement level, just like whites. Also like whites, they are leaning toward the dysgenic, unfortunately. The only racial groups in America that even at replacement level are Hispanics and Pacific Islanders-not above, at. No wonder elites are so fanatical about mass immigration. If it wasn't for that, good luck keeping the population levels artificially up: and wages artificially down, rents artificially high, competition for education, resources, etc so high, etc, etc.

    I think Unz was onto something when he suggested that one of the real motives of mass immigration was to flush black people out of major cities, and if that's the case, it is succeeding: cities have been getting less white, but they've also been getting less black.

    Interestingly enough, I think the same thing has happened with sexual minorities. Gays are about 1-2 percent of the populace in the United States. Even if we are generous with the amount of closeted cases or bisexuals who aren't interested in being part of gay culture and decline to be noted as such, I'm willing to bet the average American now thinks there are way more of them then there actually are. I'm also willing to bet that most don't realize that "camp" gays are a minority within the minority, which I suspect is a result of the media pandering to straight women who love the idea of male friends who share their interests and bring all the benefits of not being other women without bringing potentially unwelcome sexual or romantic interest. In practice, this tends to deeply annoy non-camp homosexual men. "No, I am *not* interested in going clothes shopping, and I'm definitely not interested in hearing about your boyfriend problems..."

    Gays are about 1-2 percent of the populace in the United States.

    I would have thought at least 50%, but perhaps I have been watching too much TV! In truth I have hardly watched any TV in the last 25 years, but gays are probably vastly overrated in all kinds of entertainment media such as movies and TV, so that creates an illusion that they are all around us.

    In music it has been standard procedure for decades for recording artists and performers to dress up in androgenous stylings and fashions designed to shock parents, to the point that even Michael Jackson was regarded as kind of normal apart from the single glove, the amputated nose, and the fact that he started life as an African-American, but converted late in life.

    It used to be the case that people were obviously gay, like Liberace, but at least had the decency to deny it for public consumption and for the sake of the children and sued people who said he was gay, right up to the time that he died of AIDS.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberace_v_Daily_Mirror

    For some inexplicable reason the venerable eternally young bachelor boy pop star Cliff Richard comes to mind with this song, which proved to be highly prophetic as far as he was concerned.

    As Cole Porter wrote, in 1934:

    In olden days a glimpse of stocking
    Was looked on as something shocking
    Now heaven knows, anything
    goes

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    That was pretty gay!
    But now I can't stop playing the song in me 'ed!
    , @Father O'Hara
    That was pretty gay!
    But now I can't stop playing the song in me 'ed!
  51. @Arclight
    I am not sure of how conscious a phenomenon is is, but the current fetish of elite whites for putting all things black front and center along with the prominence of Roxanne Gay, Charles Blow, Leonard Pitts, and so on is that black cultural and political power hit its apogee about ten years ago. As the country gets less white, a) the share of the white population that actually wants to put black concerns firs will shrink dramatically, and b) the rising Latino and especially Asian populations don't hold black culture or history in anywhere near the same regard as whites, and will pay a lot less attention than they are used to. I think the traditional high/low coalition on the left of whites and blacks is starting to recognize this, and we are seeing a last-ditch effort to try and cement the place blacks have in progressive politics/culture into place, but I would guess in less than a generation there is going to be a lot less interest amongst the public at large in being lectured about the importance of black music, hair, and political concerns.

    A factor that is rarely mentioned in the rise of “Woke Capitalism” is the role of skyrocketing consumer debt, which gives minorities disproportionate buying power in consumer goods. Whereas a CPG brand would once tailor its marketing to a middle-class, white shopper, it now tailors it to a subprime, off-white shopper, who shows up with a VISA card.

    If Trump wanted to crack down on this, he would promote anti-usury laws, which worked well throughout the 20th century, until they were undermined in the late 70’s. Of course, that would require Trump recognizing that much of the economic boom is being funded with credit cards, and the like.

  52. Steve names this blog post “Where is My Check”? The next post describes how to pay him during his August fundraising drive.

    Don’t worry Steve. My check is coming!

  53. @nebulafox
    I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States. In reality they are about 13% of the populace. Not trivial, but about the same proportion as, say, Malays in Chinese-dominated Singapore. Afro-American birth rates are below replacement level, just like whites. Also like whites, they are leaning toward the dysgenic, unfortunately. The only racial groups in America that even at replacement level are Hispanics and Pacific Islanders-not above, at. No wonder elites are so fanatical about mass immigration. If it wasn't for that, good luck keeping the population levels artificially up: and wages artificially down, rents artificially high, competition for education, resources, etc so high, etc, etc.

    I think Unz was onto something when he suggested that one of the real motives of mass immigration was to flush black people out of major cities, and if that's the case, it is succeeding: cities have been getting less white, but they've also been getting less black.

    Interestingly enough, I think the same thing has happened with sexual minorities. Gays are about 1-2 percent of the populace in the United States. Even if we are generous with the amount of closeted cases or bisexuals who aren't interested in being part of gay culture and decline to be noted as such, I'm willing to bet the average American now thinks there are way more of them then there actually are. I'm also willing to bet that most don't realize that "camp" gays are a minority within the minority, which I suspect is a result of the media pandering to straight women who love the idea of male friends who share their interests and bring all the benefits of not being other women without bringing potentially unwelcome sexual or romantic interest. In practice, this tends to deeply annoy non-camp homosexual men. "No, I am *not* interested in going clothes shopping, and I'm definitely not interested in hearing about your boyfriend problems..."

    ‘…I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States. In reality they are about 13% of the populace….’

    This is perhaps a red herring, but blacks also ‘stand out’ more.

    Aside from the detail that you’re naturally going to pay more attention to the crocodile sharing the swimming hole with you than the water buffalo, they’re just out more, and they’re louder.

    Two striking examples from my personal experience.

    We were once visiting someone who was living in a smallish housing product. Initially, it appeared everyone was black; that’s everyone who was loitering outside. It was only around day three or so that I realized actually, most of the people there were non-black, if not precisely white. It’s just that they only briefly appeared in the morning on their way to work or school and then briefly reappeared in the afternoon on their way back home from work or school as they scurried quickly into the relative safety of their apartments.

    The second time was when I went up to my son’s high school. From immediately outside the administration building, it sounded as if the student body was entirely black; that’s everyone you could hear. It was only after entering the building that it became apparent that the school was at most a third black.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    My high school was around 10% black. Most of the blacks were bused in from a different part of the county. When the black buses arrived, the noise level in the school would increase 2-3x. It was astounding. Shrieking and yelling, holding "conversations" with friends all the way at the other end of the hall...
  54. It’s hard to copyright your native music if you lack a legal system. Or a written language. Or the concept of “next week”.

    • LOL: Laurence Whelk
  55. @Arclight
    I am not sure of how conscious a phenomenon is is, but the current fetish of elite whites for putting all things black front and center along with the prominence of Roxanne Gay, Charles Blow, Leonard Pitts, and so on is that black cultural and political power hit its apogee about ten years ago. As the country gets less white, a) the share of the white population that actually wants to put black concerns firs will shrink dramatically, and b) the rising Latino and especially Asian populations don't hold black culture or history in anywhere near the same regard as whites, and will pay a lot less attention than they are used to. I think the traditional high/low coalition on the left of whites and blacks is starting to recognize this, and we are seeing a last-ditch effort to try and cement the place blacks have in progressive politics/culture into place, but I would guess in less than a generation there is going to be a lot less interest amongst the public at large in being lectured about the importance of black music, hair, and political concerns.

    That’s Wesley Yang’s theory as well, but I’m not so sure.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    Yang's explanation is a too Machiavellian. Imo this all began with the Trayvon Martin case, which touched a nerve in the black community. The increased sensitization resulted in Ferguson, Freddie Gray and the various other police-brutality uproars. Increased bourgeois white anxiety about black issues opened the door for an endless parade of black grifters and charlatans to try and sell the Angry (but not too angry) Black Man schtick to guilty white liberals. Ta-Nehisi Coates is the exemplar here.

    This is a great angle for black journalists and intellectual types: there's a lot of demand for it, blacks have an exclusive claim to this material and because you occupy an unimpeachable moral high ground you are beyond polite criticism and can be sloppy in a way you couldn't be covering, say, East Asian politics. Enter Jamelle Bouie, Jelani Cobb, Jamil Smith, Adam Serwer and probably a dozen others I can't recall at the moment.

    This "1619 Project" is the brainchild of Nikole Hannah-Jones, the racial beat-writer for the NYT, whom I've been peripherally following for awhile now. She refers to herself on Twitter as "The Beyoncé of Journalism," as far as I can tell unironically. She is obsessed with blackness to a degree that sets her apart even from her co-grifters like Bouie and Cobb; it's very nearly all she talks about. Something about her always struck me as a little off, and I was enlightened to learn that her mother is white and that she grew up in Iowa. The armchair psychologist in me says that, grift aside, she overdoes black schtick because she feels insecure about her rather marginal blackness. Christopher Hitchens once made the point that nationalism is often strongest on the periphery (Hitler was Austrian, Napoleon was Corsican etc) and I think you could list her as an example of this phenomenon.

    Jones is, I've noticed, also more party-line than her coevals. Cobb, for example, recently wrote a piece somewhat chastising the black community for its continued embrace of R. Kelly after the incriminating videotape had been released; I can't imagine Jones ever writing that piece. She also seems politically more radical than the rest of her lot; she has made a lot of disparaging remarks about Asian-American activists in NYC (in relation to the SHSAT issue), and she's also tweeted out occasional support for the Palestinians, which is something that most establishment black journalists will NEVER do (even indirectly, such as in defending Ilhan Omar when Republicans were attacking her for anti-Semitism).

    With regards to Hispanics, I think the plan is to cut them into any black entitlement, such as reparations; I've already heard several people say that this should be the case.

    , @Yngvar
    Mr. Yang is right. Blacks, on at least a subconscious level, acknowledge that Whites are losing clout in America and that Whites are the only 'identity' that care about the plight of Blacks. Therefore; this last ditch scramble to secure for themselves gold shavings from what this productive white goose produce.

    Unfortunately this is coupled with envy and resentment, a childish wish to see your 'enemy' fall, so any rational and reasonable debate on immigration policies is difficult.

    But there is hope. According to the Washington Post experts analysts have concluded that President Trump speak at a 4th grade level. At this plateau all Blacks should, given time, understand his vision.

    , @Arclight
    Do you think Asians and Hispanics are going to adopt black causes the way progressive whites have? I personally just don’t think they find blacks as fascinating as lefty whites do, so although I think it is probable that future politics will have a strong ethnic component in terms of party alignment, the new left is not going to give black concerns the same prominence they are accustomed to.
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    "The more likely answer is that they don't spend much time thinking about Asians or Hispanics."

    The only group more obsessed with blacks than white progressives are blacks.
  56. @Arclight
    I am not sure of how conscious a phenomenon is is, but the current fetish of elite whites for putting all things black front and center along with the prominence of Roxanne Gay, Charles Blow, Leonard Pitts, and so on is that black cultural and political power hit its apogee about ten years ago. As the country gets less white, a) the share of the white population that actually wants to put black concerns firs will shrink dramatically, and b) the rising Latino and especially Asian populations don't hold black culture or history in anywhere near the same regard as whites, and will pay a lot less attention than they are used to. I think the traditional high/low coalition on the left of whites and blacks is starting to recognize this, and we are seeing a last-ditch effort to try and cement the place blacks have in progressive politics/culture into place, but I would guess in less than a generation there is going to be a lot less interest amongst the public at large in being lectured about the importance of black music, hair, and political concerns.

    As the country gets less white, a) the share of the white population that actually wants to put black concerns firs will shrink dramatically, and b) the rising Latino and especially Asian populations don’t hold black culture or history in anywhere near the same regard as whites, and will pay a lot less attention than they are used to.

    That’s not what we are seeing at all. Young Asians and Hispanics overwhelmingly embrace black pop culture, whereas whites are more divided. The mainstream pop culture is just black now, period. Virtually all young non-whites are inside of this corporate black pop culture. Whites still have large subcultures like country music, metal, punk and the alt-right that resist the total blackifiction of everything.

    Get over this fantasy that a more Hispanics and Asian America will somehow cause anything good to happen. It won’t. Hispanic and Asians are extremely conformist and eat up all the product that is served to them with enthusiasm. As Steve noted in that post about all the Asians and Indians celebrating the Raptors winning the NBA title, young non-whites see blacks as a totem of all non-whites against whites.

  57. @Arclight
    I am not sure of how conscious a phenomenon is is, but the current fetish of elite whites for putting all things black front and center along with the prominence of Roxanne Gay, Charles Blow, Leonard Pitts, and so on is that black cultural and political power hit its apogee about ten years ago. As the country gets less white, a) the share of the white population that actually wants to put black concerns firs will shrink dramatically, and b) the rising Latino and especially Asian populations don't hold black culture or history in anywhere near the same regard as whites, and will pay a lot less attention than they are used to. I think the traditional high/low coalition on the left of whites and blacks is starting to recognize this, and we are seeing a last-ditch effort to try and cement the place blacks have in progressive politics/culture into place, but I would guess in less than a generation there is going to be a lot less interest amongst the public at large in being lectured about the importance of black music, hair, and political concerns.

    Good point. Black racialists are going to really miss the White majority. Do they think Koreans or Mexicans are going to want to keep giving them free stuff? Other people have no guilt about slavery (a cherished African tradition by the way). In the future Brown America, black communities will be forgotten and isolated in impoverished outer suburbs.

  58. @Paleo Liberal
    Much of the best American music came from the confluence of a variety of different European, African and Native styles of music. Native influence is much bigger in Hawaiian music, which is a synthesis of, among other things, Native Hawaiian, Portuguese, and Mainland American music, partly because Native Hawaiian music was so much better than American Indian music, and Native Hawaiians love to play music.

    There are very few songs which show much Native American influence. One example is Lead Belly's Green Corn, written about the Indian Green Corn dance. Like many great American musicians, Lead Belly had quite a bit of Indian blood.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMYOnNgaUY0

    Is this post a joke? What is the musical influence of indigenous music on this piece? The tonal structures, rhythms?

    I doubt Lead Belly had any indigenous blood, he looked 100% black.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    The lyrics were about an Indian dance.
    The rhythm may have been the rhythm of the actual dance.
  59. @Paleo Liberal
    There were two sides of the story with cultural appropriation of black music by white musicians.

    Yes, the white musicians usually made more money off of it. OTOH, the appropriation gave the black musicians more exposure, and led to greater fame.

    For example, Chuck Berry's music was constantly appropriated by the Beatles. Sometimes it was direct covers, esp. George Harrison doing "Roll Over Beethoven". Other times the Beatles stole parts of his song, most famously Lennon stealing parts of Berry's 1956 song "You Can't Catch Me for the Beatles song "Come Together"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKrHzps0XM

    Berry was p*ssed, but he knew the Beatles had made him more popular. Chuck Berry and John Lennon even performed together, which helped spread Berry's fame.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKrHzps0XM

    Eventually Berry sued Lennon for plagiarism. They reached a friendly agreement. In Lennon's "Rock and Roll" album, Lennon covered three of Chick Berry's songs, including "You Can't Catch Me".

    The Beatles only borrowed one line from “You Can’t Catch Me”: “Here come a flat-top, he was movin’ up with me” became “Here come ol’ Flat-Top, he come groovin’ up slowly” in “Come Together”. It was a quote from or an allusion to the Berry song. Anybody but Chuck Berry would’ve considered it a flattering tribute.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    Don't agree. The first four measures are C. Berry's work.
  60. @nebulafox
    I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States. In reality they are about 13% of the populace. Not trivial, but about the same proportion as, say, Malays in Chinese-dominated Singapore. Afro-American birth rates are below replacement level, just like whites. Also like whites, they are leaning toward the dysgenic, unfortunately. The only racial groups in America that even at replacement level are Hispanics and Pacific Islanders-not above, at. No wonder elites are so fanatical about mass immigration. If it wasn't for that, good luck keeping the population levels artificially up: and wages artificially down, rents artificially high, competition for education, resources, etc so high, etc, etc.

    I think Unz was onto something when he suggested that one of the real motives of mass immigration was to flush black people out of major cities, and if that's the case, it is succeeding: cities have been getting less white, but they've also been getting less black.

    Interestingly enough, I think the same thing has happened with sexual minorities. Gays are about 1-2 percent of the populace in the United States. Even if we are generous with the amount of closeted cases or bisexuals who aren't interested in being part of gay culture and decline to be noted as such, I'm willing to bet the average American now thinks there are way more of them then there actually are. I'm also willing to bet that most don't realize that "camp" gays are a minority within the minority, which I suspect is a result of the media pandering to straight women who love the idea of male friends who share their interests and bring all the benefits of not being other women without bringing potentially unwelcome sexual or romantic interest. In practice, this tends to deeply annoy non-camp homosexual men. "No, I am *not* interested in going clothes shopping, and I'm definitely not interested in hearing about your boyfriend problems..."

    I recall a similar survey where people were asked what they thought the gay percentage was, again massively overestimated. Something like 25%. A delusion that can only result from the MSM.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob

    A delusion that can only result from the MSM.
     
    And from watching TV, especially recent commercials, someone from Mars might reasonably conclude that mixed couples are about 50% of the total.

    My lyin' eyes tell me that it's a very small number, and the couple is usually a black guy with an ugly fat white woman.
    , @Redneck farmer
    Going from the Fresh Air NPR program, I'd guess 50% of Jews are gay.
    , @Anon
    When I was at UCLA the gay student campus newspaper was named Ten Percent, two or three times beyond reality.
    , @Steve Sailer
    Most people aren't good at estimating percentages, and they are especially bad at doing reality checks like subtracting the sum of their estimates from 100%.
  61. Only from the left can this idea:

    For centuries, black music, forged in bondage, has been the sound of complete artistic freedom. No wonder everybody is always stealing it.

    and this idea:

    But by that point it had already captured the nation’s imagination and tapped into the confused thrill of integrated culture. A black kid hadn’t really merged white music with black, he’d just taken up the American birthright of cultural synthesis.

    exist in the same essay. Did you get that? Whites infuse black musical forms into songs and it’s theft. Blacks infuse white musical forms into songs and it’s cultural synthesis. The author takes the the idea of morally based privilege for blacks and chops it up and spreads it through umpteen paragraphs of drivel so it won’t be recognized by any thinking person (he believes.) Anyway, privilege is something that only white people have, so his deception is even more camouflaged (he believes.)

    The gatekeepers of country radio refused to play the song; they didn’t explain why. Then, Billboard determined that the song failed to “embrace enough elements of today’s country music to chart in its current version.” This doesn’t warrant translation, but let’s be thorough, anyway: The song is too black for certain white people.

    And the reason most Michael Buble and Alan Jackson music doesn’t show up on hip hop stations is…what? “Gatekeepers”? I’m sure the author has other explanations.

    Privilege, privilege everywhere, and not a thought to think. As with slavery and prejudice, the left again demonstrates that it doesn’t believe so much that privilege wrong, but that it’s applied to the wrong people.

  62. Anon[134] • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG
    That's the whole problem originally behind cultural appropriation--black musicians having their work covered or adapted by white musicians, who then made more money being more palatable to the white general public. (Eminem was guilty enough to write a whole song about it.) It makes some sense as many indigenous American musical idioms like jazz, blues, and rap came out of black culture, and rock and roll had heavy black influences. From the HBD point of view, it's what happens when musical talent isn't accompanied (in a statistical sense) by 'g'--you get ripped off. (Frequently by, ah, other groups with more talent in business...)

    Of course, it metamorphosized into Twitter mobs attacking high school girls who wear Chinese dresses to prom.

    At some point all the self-flagellation and cultural cringe from lefty white liberals makes me wonder if the whole thing is some sort of displaced BDSM. "Oh, we are so horrible, here are three books about how horrible we are, please tell us how bad we are..." I think it was Derb who brought up 'ethnomasochism'. And, of course, kink is popular now, though I kind of wonder about all those self-flagellating (literally) medieval monks.

    Black musicians have always had the ability to make their music more white if they wanted. They could hear white music on the radio the same way anyone else did and copy its tropes. They chose not to, because if they did, they’d lose the core audience that could always be counted on to show up for their gigs. Many were just too timid to try leaving their native group.

    Rappers can sound more white and populist if they want to and have bigger hits, but they have that timidity characteristic of peasants of not wanting to leave the hood behind. They don’t want to get cut off from the people they know or take flack for it. Remember the Japanese saying, “The raised nail gets hammered down?”

  63. It’s a perspective that I’d enjoy seeing explicitly articulated rather than just hinted at.

    The flaw in the Current Year Narrative in a nutshell. The emotional appeal is enormously powerful at first pass but crumbles under analysis.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    The flaw in the Current Year Narrative in a nutshell. The emotional appeal is enormously powerful at first pass but crumbles under analysis.
     
    The left simply can't prove its narrative with honest, intellectually rigorous analysis because the narrative is false. So instead you see an endless parade of propaganda that simply uses slanted language, PC cliches and circular reasoning.

    A perfect example, which also invokes the "theft from black people" trope, is an idiotic piece in The Atlantic which they variously title as "The Mississippi Delta's History of Black Land Theft" or the "The Great Land Robbery." https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/09/this-land-was-our-land/594742/

    A war waged by deed of title has dispossessed 98 percent of black agricultural landowners in America. They have lost 12 million acres over the past century.
     
    The article refers to the "war" "theft" "loss" and "dispossession" of land. And blacks being "ripped" from the land. But after a few thousand words of bumbling incoherence and non sequitur assertions, you eventually discovery that the author is just talking about the fact that small black farmers over time have voluntarily sold their farms and gotten out of the really crappy, uneconomical small farm business.

    Never once does the dishonest dummy who wrote this piece acknowledge that 98+% of all farmers also exited the farm business during this period.

    In 1870, almost 50 percent of the U.S. population was employed in agriculture.[19] As of 2008, less than 2 percent of the population is directly employed in agriculture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_the_United_States#Farm_type_or_majority_enterprise_type
     
    I'm sure most of the people who read that article just nod along at the virtue signalling noises about victimized blacks and evil whites. But the deliberate stupidity and dishonesty of these propagandists just never gets challenged. (For obvious reasons, The Atlantic has no comments section).
  64. Yeah, I am reminded of the IQ geniuses on here who think that THEY invented electricity or the atomic bomb or antibiotics or something because some white man did.

    Somehow this kind of logic is fine for white idiots. It is only bad when black idiots use it.

    • LOL: Kyle
  65. @SFG
    That's the whole problem originally behind cultural appropriation--black musicians having their work covered or adapted by white musicians, who then made more money being more palatable to the white general public. (Eminem was guilty enough to write a whole song about it.) It makes some sense as many indigenous American musical idioms like jazz, blues, and rap came out of black culture, and rock and roll had heavy black influences. From the HBD point of view, it's what happens when musical talent isn't accompanied (in a statistical sense) by 'g'--you get ripped off. (Frequently by, ah, other groups with more talent in business...)

    Of course, it metamorphosized into Twitter mobs attacking high school girls who wear Chinese dresses to prom.

    At some point all the self-flagellation and cultural cringe from lefty white liberals makes me wonder if the whole thing is some sort of displaced BDSM. "Oh, we are so horrible, here are three books about how horrible we are, please tell us how bad we are..." I think it was Derb who brought up 'ethnomasochism'. And, of course, kink is popular now, though I kind of wonder about all those self-flagellating (literally) medieval monks.

    I like how you think M&Ms writes “songs.”

  66. @Paleo Liberal
    My apologies. I put in the same video twice. Bad Paleo! No treat!

    Here is the video of Lennon and Berry together. And that is not a cat wailing in the background,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbGuxGGOIV0

    Bill Burr has a hilarious Yoko rant about that video.

  67. @Paleo Liberal
    There were two sides of the story with cultural appropriation of black music by white musicians.

    Yes, the white musicians usually made more money off of it. OTOH, the appropriation gave the black musicians more exposure, and led to greater fame.

    For example, Chuck Berry's music was constantly appropriated by the Beatles. Sometimes it was direct covers, esp. George Harrison doing "Roll Over Beethoven". Other times the Beatles stole parts of his song, most famously Lennon stealing parts of Berry's 1956 song "You Can't Catch Me for the Beatles song "Come Together"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKrHzps0XM

    Berry was p*ssed, but he knew the Beatles had made him more popular. Chuck Berry and John Lennon even performed together, which helped spread Berry's fame.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKrHzps0XM

    Eventually Berry sued Lennon for plagiarism. They reached a friendly agreement. In Lennon's "Rock and Roll" album, Lennon covered three of Chick Berry's songs, including "You Can't Catch Me".

    Chuck Berry’s first hit, Maybelline, was stolen from Ida Red (who knows who really wrote it, but probably a white man[or even more likelyly, a white woman]) by Bob Wills. American folk music, from which all of this springs, arises out of symbiosis between black and white, with a touch of Spanish, and even, some have argued, a tiny smidgeon of American Indian. Just one of the many proofs is that traditional African music does not sound at all like American music, even like the most traditional of blueses.

  68. Anonymous[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen
    That’s Wesley Yang’s theory as well, but I’m not so sure.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1162662948709502977?s=21

    Yang’s explanation is a too Machiavellian. Imo this all began with the Trayvon Martin case, which touched a nerve in the black community. The increased sensitization resulted in Ferguson, Freddie Gray and the various other police-brutality uproars. Increased bourgeois white anxiety about black issues opened the door for an endless parade of black grifters and charlatans to try and sell the Angry (but not too angry) Black Man schtick to guilty white liberals. Ta-Nehisi Coates is the exemplar here.

    This is a great angle for black journalists and intellectual types: there’s a lot of demand for it, blacks have an exclusive claim to this material and because you occupy an unimpeachable moral high ground you are beyond polite criticism and can be sloppy in a way you couldn’t be covering, say, East Asian politics. Enter Jamelle Bouie, Jelani Cobb, Jamil Smith, Adam Serwer and probably a dozen others I can’t recall at the moment.

    This “1619 Project” is the brainchild of Nikole Hannah-Jones, the racial beat-writer for the NYT, whom I’ve been peripherally following for awhile now. She refers to herself on Twitter as “The Beyoncé of Journalism,” as far as I can tell unironically. She is obsessed with blackness to a degree that sets her apart even from her co-grifters like Bouie and Cobb; it’s very nearly all she talks about. Something about her always struck me as a little off, and I was enlightened to learn that her mother is white and that she grew up in Iowa. The armchair psychologist in me says that, grift aside, she overdoes black schtick because she feels insecure about her rather marginal blackness. Christopher Hitchens once made the point that nationalism is often strongest on the periphery (Hitler was Austrian, Napoleon was Corsican etc) and I think you could list her as an example of this phenomenon.

    Jones is, I’ve noticed, also more party-line than her coevals. Cobb, for example, recently wrote a piece somewhat chastising the black community for its continued embrace of R. Kelly after the incriminating videotape had been released; I can’t imagine Jones ever writing that piece. She also seems politically more radical than the rest of her lot; she has made a lot of disparaging remarks about Asian-American activists in NYC (in relation to the SHSAT issue), and she’s also tweeted out occasional support for the Palestinians, which is something that most establishment black journalists will NEVER do (even indirectly, such as in defending Ilhan Omar when Republicans were attacking her for anti-Semitism).

    With regards to Hispanics, I think the plan is to cut them into any black entitlement, such as reparations; I’ve already heard several people say that this should be the case.

    • Replies: @Anon
    What reparations to Mexicans? What for? Mexicans are not US citizens. Besides, we PAID Mexico for that big chunk of the Southwest. They already got their cash. They don't get any more.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Cession
    , @Sam Haysom
    Yea and that was always a pretty silly point from Hitchens. Austria isn’t the periphery of the German world. If anything Hitler embodied the vindication of the Hapsburg world from the usurpers from Prussia. And Napoleon III was far more of a French nationalist than his Corsican uncle
    , @William Badwhite

    I was enlightened to learn that her mother is white and that she grew up in Iowa. The armchair psychologist in me says that, grift aside, she overdoes black schtick because she feels insecure about her rather marginal blackness.
     
    Similar to Obama and the failed QB Colin Kaperdink - both approx 1/2 black but raised by whites. They seem stuck between the white and black worlds and choose the black world. But they don't really know that much about the black world so they overcompensate once they get there.

    I suspect there are lots of 1/2 black, 1/2 white types that choose to identify with their white side, but we don't hear much about them because they act like whites - get jobs, go about their business, don't shriek all day about white, white, whitedy, white.
  69. I would agree to royalties for all black music composed by beating sticks on empty logs. If they used cultural appropriation with pianos, guitars, etc., then no royalties.

  70. @Wilkey
    The specific contributions of blacks to Western culture and science only stand out because they have been so minute. It is pretty much taken for granted that the vast majority of culture and science has been created by whites. It is so much taken for granted that few people really think about it.

    A few years ago there was a big kerfuffle over some white girl who wore a "Chinese" dress to her prom. Some random Chinese-American idiot called her out on her cultural appropriation. No one ever bothered to challenge him as to why he was questioning her "appropriation" using the English language.

    Blacks, of course, will justly point out that for most of them their arrival here was involuntary, so questioning their use of English would be a bit unfair. But there are plenty of other cultural and scientific inventions they needn't feel forced to use, such as pretty much every instrument used to create music, not to mention virtually all of the technology used to record and transmit it.

    You are correct. Besides music and sports, what else have they got?

  71. @Dave Pinsen
    That’s Wesley Yang’s theory as well, but I’m not so sure.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1162662948709502977?s=21

    Mr. Yang is right. Blacks, on at least a subconscious level, acknowledge that Whites are losing clout in America and that Whites are the only ‘identity’ that care about the plight of Blacks. Therefore; this last ditch scramble to secure for themselves gold shavings from what this productive white goose produce.

    Unfortunately this is coupled with envy and resentment, a childish wish to see your ‘enemy’ fall, so any rational and reasonable debate on immigration policies is difficult.

    But there is hope. According to the Washington Post experts analysts have concluded that President Trump speak at a 4th grade level. At this plateau all Blacks should, given time, understand his vision.

  72. @Lurker
    I recall a similar survey where people were asked what they thought the gay percentage was, again massively overestimated. Something like 25%. A delusion that can only result from the MSM.

    A delusion that can only result from the MSM.

    And from watching TV, especially recent commercials, someone from Mars might reasonably conclude that mixed couples are about 50% of the total.

    My lyin’ eyes tell me that it’s a very small number, and the couple is usually a black guy with an ugly fat white woman.

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @interesting
    I've told this story countless times and i think even here. I've been to trade shows where over lunch or dinner i'll ask associates what they think of the USA and every time I'm asked the same question......"where are all the blacks?" It's the opinion of my foreign associates that based on TV, movies, commercials and sports, the USA is 50% black folks.
  73. @Wilkey
    The specific contributions of blacks to Western culture and science only stand out because they have been so minute. It is pretty much taken for granted that the vast majority of culture and science has been created by whites. It is so much taken for granted that few people really think about it.

    A few years ago there was a big kerfuffle over some white girl who wore a "Chinese" dress to her prom. Some random Chinese-American idiot called her out on her cultural appropriation. No one ever bothered to challenge him as to why he was questioning her "appropriation" using the English language.

    Blacks, of course, will justly point out that for most of them their arrival here was involuntary, so questioning their use of English would be a bit unfair. But there are plenty of other cultural and scientific inventions they needn't feel forced to use, such as pretty much every instrument used to create music, not to mention virtually all of the technology used to record and transmit it.

    Blacks, of course, will justly point out that for most of them their arrival here was involuntary

    In any recent ten-year period, more Africans have arrived in America of their own free will and at their own expense than were transported here during the entire 200 years of the slave trade.

  74. More ‘socialism’ creep this time into the music industry. This would mean that every black person was entitled to a check from the estates of black artists who died instead of their actual wives, mothers, children, etc., getting the royalties…

    I’m sure all the black millionaires (and there are quite a large number) are going to love that…

    Why not include black sports figures in that as well…football generates the highest number of black millionaires in the country. I’m sure they’ll love the idea as well…really woke thinking…

  75. @Dave Pinsen
    That’s Wesley Yang’s theory as well, but I’m not so sure.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1162662948709502977?s=21

    Do you think Asians and Hispanics are going to adopt black causes the way progressive whites have? I personally just don’t think they find blacks as fascinating as lefty whites do, so although I think it is probable that future politics will have a strong ethnic component in terms of party alignment, the new left is not going to give black concerns the same prominence they are accustomed to.

    • Replies: @Clyde

    Do you think Asians and Hispanics are going to adopt black causes the way progressive whites have? I personally just don’t think they find blacks as fascinating as lefty whites do, so although I think it is probable that future politics will have a strong ethnic component in terms of party alignment, the new left is not going to give black concerns the same prominence they are accustomed to.
     
    Of course the answer is a big fat NO! This will be amusing to see play out as the Asians and Hispanics battle it out with our entitled do nothing blacks who are slavery derived. Even African immigrant blacks don't like them. And I have met some good ones from Nigeria. Just because your great great great grand pappy was farm machinery..... Does not mean you don't have to account for yourself today.
    , @Lot
    Young Asian American men seem to go through a rap phase at an even higher rate than whites.
    , @sondjata
    Since some Hispanics *are* black, there will always be some overlap between hispanic politics and black politics. The non-overlap will be present amongst Indios (or anyone with no or negligible black ancestry).

    Asians on the other hand have nothing to gain by an Asian black alliance. They have the income/wealth, are growing their own communities and so only need political representation, which will be coming shortly. See how the whole NYC elite schools thing is going.

    Can't play the slavery game with Asians. Can't play the Jim Crow, Redlining, etc. with Asians. Asians can say "we don't owe you a damn thing" and there is no reply black people can give to that.
  76. OT but in a New York Chinese way…….
    New York City condo owner is busted for converting one apartment into NINE illegal micro units by cutting it in half HORIZONTALLY with ceilings as low as 4 1/2 feet and renting them out for $600 per month

    Landlord Xue Ping Ni had split his 634-square-foot Manhattan condo in half horizontally to rent out nine micro units. The units were raided and shut down Wednesday by the city Buildings Department and tenants were forced to evacuate. Ni was fined more than $144,000 for failing to have sprinklers, proper electrical, structural and plumbing permits. Another landlord in the same Lower East Side building was also discovered to be running the same scheme by creating multiple units. The ceilings were as low as 4 1/2 feet and tenants were being charged up to $600 a month for the illegal spaces. The scene resembled that of 1999 indie film Being John Malkovich which depicted a small 7th 1/2 floor in a Manhattan office.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7369089/New-York-condo-owner-busted-converting-ONE-apartment-building-nine-illegal-units.html

  77. @Arclight
    Do you think Asians and Hispanics are going to adopt black causes the way progressive whites have? I personally just don’t think they find blacks as fascinating as lefty whites do, so although I think it is probable that future politics will have a strong ethnic component in terms of party alignment, the new left is not going to give black concerns the same prominence they are accustomed to.

    Do you think Asians and Hispanics are going to adopt black causes the way progressive whites have? I personally just don’t think they find blacks as fascinating as lefty whites do, so although I think it is probable that future politics will have a strong ethnic component in terms of party alignment, the new left is not going to give black concerns the same prominence they are accustomed to.

    Of course the answer is a big fat NO! This will be amusing to see play out as the Asians and Hispanics battle it out with our entitled do nothing blacks who are slavery derived. Even African immigrant blacks don’t like them. And I have met some good ones from Nigeria. Just because your great great great grand pappy was farm machinery….. Does not mean you don’t have to account for yourself today.

  78. @Arclight
    I am not sure of how conscious a phenomenon is is, but the current fetish of elite whites for putting all things black front and center along with the prominence of Roxanne Gay, Charles Blow, Leonard Pitts, and so on is that black cultural and political power hit its apogee about ten years ago. As the country gets less white, a) the share of the white population that actually wants to put black concerns firs will shrink dramatically, and b) the rising Latino and especially Asian populations don't hold black culture or history in anywhere near the same regard as whites, and will pay a lot less attention than they are used to. I think the traditional high/low coalition on the left of whites and blacks is starting to recognize this, and we are seeing a last-ditch effort to try and cement the place blacks have in progressive politics/culture into place, but I would guess in less than a generation there is going to be a lot less interest amongst the public at large in being lectured about the importance of black music, hair, and political concerns.

    the rising Latino and especially Asian populations don’t hold black culture or history in anywhere near the same regard as whites, and will pay a lot less attention than they are used to.

    Ditto for new “white” immigrants like Russians, Armenians, etc. I think they are mystified at the way progressive whites see blacks as their spirit animals.

    • Replies: @Arclight
    Agreed - anecdotal, but I had a conversation at the gym with a couple of guys who are both immigrants, and somehow BLM came up and their views on that and related matters were decidedly uncomplimentary. The most pro-black people I know are almost all liberal whites who grew up and still live with absolutely no diversity in their neighborhood or the schools they send their kids to.

    I do think there is an effort to make it look like there is common cause between various POCs and certainly the activists of all stripes make it look that way through their efforts at 'representation' in various political organizations, but look at what ordinary people do in their personal lives. It's one thing to buy albums and NBA jerseys, it's something entirely different to decide you want to integrate that kind of culture into where you live or send your kids to school.
  79. Article is extremely long and poorly written. I advise against reading it even for a “know your enemy” perspective.

    Much of it reminds me of a string of youtube music video comments.

    I suggest instead reading John McWhorter’s powerful, well-written classic How Hip Hop Holds Blacks Back:

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-hip-hop-holds-blacks-back-12442.html

    • Replies: @Anon
    Hip Hip and rap were simply the blacks' response to punk. As soon as white music started sounding more ferocious and aggressive, blacks realized that if they didn't start sounding more aggressive too, everyone would think they were a bunch of wimps. Blacks performing disco and soul disappeared pretty quickly after punk arrived, and hip hip and rap emerged. Themes of love got replaced by themes of violence and protest, an exact copy of what whites were doing with punk. Hip hip and rap even sampled white rock and roll like crazy. Hip hop and rap were very influenced by what white musicians were doing.
    , @Hypnotoad666

    I suggest instead reading John McWhorter’s powerful, well-written classic How Hip Hop Holds Blacks Back:
     
    Nah, McWhorter be 'frontin'. If you want authentic black experience you gotta listen to N.W.A. from back when rap was real. And don't let anybody dis' my brother Ice Cube just cuz he grew up in Encino and plays a cop on TV. Here's a sample of his street wisdom:

    [Verse 3: Ice Cube]
    I once knew a bitch who got slapped
    'Cause she played me like she was all that
    A bitch can be your best friend talking behind your back (yeah?)
    About who's fucking who and who's getting fat
    Look at yourself for me (look, bitch)
    Now do you fall in this category?
    Or you the kind that won't blink
    'Cause you don't think your shit stink
    Lucky I haven't had a drink
    'Cause I'd down your ass
    Then I'd clown your ass
    'Cause the niggas I hang with ain't rich
    We'll all say "Fuck you bitch!" (word)
    Now what can I do with a ho like you
    Bend your ass over and then I'm through (get the fuck out)
    'Cause you see Ice Cube ain't taking no shit
    (Why?) 'Cause I think a bitch is a bitch
    https://genius.com/Nwa-a-bitch-iz-a-bitch-lyrics
     
    https://youtu.be/A5TsjmaycsQ
  80. @Arclight
    Do you think Asians and Hispanics are going to adopt black causes the way progressive whites have? I personally just don’t think they find blacks as fascinating as lefty whites do, so although I think it is probable that future politics will have a strong ethnic component in terms of party alignment, the new left is not going to give black concerns the same prominence they are accustomed to.

    Young Asian American men seem to go through a rap phase at an even higher rate than whites.

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
    If you are trying to predict politics based on how big a wigger someone was at fourteen you aren’t going succeed very well.
  81. @Arclight
    Do you think Asians and Hispanics are going to adopt black causes the way progressive whites have? I personally just don’t think they find blacks as fascinating as lefty whites do, so although I think it is probable that future politics will have a strong ethnic component in terms of party alignment, the new left is not going to give black concerns the same prominence they are accustomed to.

    Since some Hispanics *are* black, there will always be some overlap between hispanic politics and black politics. The non-overlap will be present amongst Indios (or anyone with no or negligible black ancestry).

    Asians on the other hand have nothing to gain by an Asian black alliance. They have the income/wealth, are growing their own communities and so only need political representation, which will be coming shortly. See how the whole NYC elite schools thing is going.

    Can’t play the slavery game with Asians. Can’t play the Jim Crow, Redlining, etc. with Asians. Asians can say “we don’t owe you a damn thing” and there is no reply black people can give to that.

  82. Blacks are always rent seeking, looking for a freebie.

  83. For centuries, black music, forged in bondage, has been the sound of complete artistic freedom. No wonder everybody is always stealing it.

    Deal!

    Whites must stop listening to black music and remove any specifically black contributions/elements from their music, as well as stop watching black athletes, entertainers, etc.

    In return, blacks should stop driving cars, taking buses+trains, flying on planes; stop using refrigeration, gas or electric furnaces, computers, phones, electric or gas ovens, electric lights, electricity in general, modern drugs or surgery, anti-biotics, vaccines, potable tap water, flush toilets, bicycles, paved roads, glasses, books, printing, writing, brass instruments … and English.

    Then we’ll be square.

    • Replies: @Neil Templeton
    No Dad, much as I love your comments here, you know we have to learn to live with each other. There isn't going to be a separate Euro nation, not now, not ever. If it were to happen, it would be the first instance of such an event in the history of Man, not to mention the history of all genetic beings. Once a unique genesis enters a population, it doesn't leave unless exterminated under highly improbable circumstances.
  84. @nebulafox
    I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States. In reality they are about 13% of the populace. Not trivial, but about the same proportion as, say, Malays in Chinese-dominated Singapore. Afro-American birth rates are below replacement level, just like whites. Also like whites, they are leaning toward the dysgenic, unfortunately. The only racial groups in America that even at replacement level are Hispanics and Pacific Islanders-not above, at. No wonder elites are so fanatical about mass immigration. If it wasn't for that, good luck keeping the population levels artificially up: and wages artificially down, rents artificially high, competition for education, resources, etc so high, etc, etc.

    I think Unz was onto something when he suggested that one of the real motives of mass immigration was to flush black people out of major cities, and if that's the case, it is succeeding: cities have been getting less white, but they've also been getting less black.

    Interestingly enough, I think the same thing has happened with sexual minorities. Gays are about 1-2 percent of the populace in the United States. Even if we are generous with the amount of closeted cases or bisexuals who aren't interested in being part of gay culture and decline to be noted as such, I'm willing to bet the average American now thinks there are way more of them then there actually are. I'm also willing to bet that most don't realize that "camp" gays are a minority within the minority, which I suspect is a result of the media pandering to straight women who love the idea of male friends who share their interests and bring all the benefits of not being other women without bringing potentially unwelcome sexual or romantic interest. In practice, this tends to deeply annoy non-camp homosexual men. "No, I am *not* interested in going clothes shopping, and I'm definitely not interested in hearing about your boyfriend problems..."

    “rock and roll had heavy black influences”

    Constantly overstated.

    Elvis generally, and blues covers like House of the Rising Sun: Yes.

    Rock Around the Clock, Oh Boy!, Train Kept a Rollin, Wake up Little Suzie, I Want to Hold Your Hand, Surfin USA: No. All highly original sounds from Anglosphere whites.

    And that’s just the first era. Rock got less black every year since.

    And the Beatles, Stones, and Yardbirds all became bigger hits as they moved away from their earlier blues sounds.

    • Agree: JudgeSmails
    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Steve once did a blog post about whether prog rock or punk rock was the “whitest” form of rock.

    Who was whiter? Keith Emerson or Joey Ramone?

    I once ran across a cover Mike Love did of “Rockaway Beach”, which was sort of the Ramones’ tribute to The Beach Boys. That was very white of Mike Love to do that.
  85. @Lot
    “rock and roll had heavy black influences”

    Constantly overstated.

    Elvis generally, and blues covers like House of the Rising Sun: Yes.

    Rock Around the Clock, Oh Boy!, Train Kept a Rollin, Wake up Little Suzie, I Want to Hold Your Hand, Surfin USA: No. All highly original sounds from Anglosphere whites.

    And that’s just the first era. Rock got less black every year since.

    And the Beatles, Stones, and Yardbirds all became bigger hits as they moved away from their earlier blues sounds.

    Steve once did a blog post about whether prog rock or punk rock was the “whitest” form of rock.

    Who was whiter? Keith Emerson or Joey Ramone?

    I once ran across a cover Mike Love did of “Rockaway Beach”, which was sort of the Ramones’ tribute to The Beach Boys. That was very white of Mike Love to do that.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    "... prog rock or punk rock ..."

    Prog rock is far whiter than punk. Punk is essentially rambunctious clatter made by guys who can't play their instruments. Punk also killed its raison d'etre by becoming hip and fashionable. Prog has never been hip. And by far the whitest prog rock album ever produced is Grace Under Pressure (1984) by Rush.
    , @The Wild Geese Howard

    Steve once did a blog post about whether prog rock or punk rock was the “whitest” form of rock.
     
    Metallica is probably the "whitest" form of rock.

    Many of their tracks are deeply inspired by classical forms, which are the whitest type of music of all time.

    There is a reason they are doing another concert with the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra.
    , @SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle
    "Who was whiter? Keith Emerson or Joey Ramone?"

    I thought the Ramones were jews posing as italians.
  86. @Lurker
    I recall a similar survey where people were asked what they thought the gay percentage was, again massively overestimated. Something like 25%. A delusion that can only result from the MSM.

    Going from the Fresh Air NPR program, I’d guess 50% of Jews are gay.

  87. Anon[228] • Disclaimer says:

    has been the sound of complete artistic freedom. No wonder everybody is always stealing it.

    In other words, blacks think and live like grasshoppers. They live for fun and wildness. So, others take their way of fun.

    But such funnery leads to social chaos, and that means blacks can’t achieve anything else…that must be stolen from other races.

    It wasn’t black jivery that led to cars, planes, toilets, modern plumbing, space age, computers, etc.

  88. @Lurker

    It’s a perspective that I’d enjoy seeing explicitly articulated rather than just hinted at.
     
    The flaw in the Current Year Narrative in a nutshell. The emotional appeal is enormously powerful at first pass but crumbles under analysis.

    The flaw in the Current Year Narrative in a nutshell. The emotional appeal is enormously powerful at first pass but crumbles under analysis.

    The left simply can’t prove its narrative with honest, intellectually rigorous analysis because the narrative is false. So instead you see an endless parade of propaganda that simply uses slanted language, PC cliches and circular reasoning.

    A perfect example, which also invokes the “theft from black people” trope, is an idiotic piece in The Atlantic which they variously title as “The Mississippi Delta’s History of Black Land Theft” or the “The Great Land Robbery.” https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/09/this-land-was-our-land/594742/

    A war waged by deed of title has dispossessed 98 percent of black agricultural landowners in America. They have lost 12 million acres over the past century.

    The article refers to the “war” “theft” “loss” and “dispossession” of land. And blacks being “ripped” from the land. But after a few thousand words of bumbling incoherence and non sequitur assertions, you eventually discovery that the author is just talking about the fact that small black farmers over time have voluntarily sold their farms and gotten out of the really crappy, uneconomical small farm business.

    Never once does the dishonest dummy who wrote this piece acknowledge that 98+% of all farmers also exited the farm business during this period.

    In 1870, almost 50 percent of the U.S. population was employed in agriculture.[19] As of 2008, less than 2 percent of the population is directly employed in agriculture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_the_United_States#Farm_type_or_majority_enterprise_type

    I’m sure most of the people who read that article just nod along at the virtue signalling noises about victimized blacks and evil whites. But the deliberate stupidity and dishonesty of these propagandists just never gets challenged. (For obvious reasons, The Atlantic has no comments section).

    • Agree: bomag, Lurker
    • Replies: @Lurker
    The Atlantic used to have Disqus comments, long gone now, and they had already banned me before that.
    , @Steve Sailer
    The surviving farmers in the Midwest these days tend to have the skills of midlevel corporate executives with MBAs.
  89. @Dave Pinsen
    That’s Wesley Yang’s theory as well, but I’m not so sure.

    https://twitter.com/dpinsen/status/1162662948709502977?s=21

    “The more likely answer is that they don’t spend much time thinking about Asians or Hispanics.”

    The only group more obsessed with blacks than white progressives are blacks.

  90. @nebulafox
    I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States. In reality they are about 13% of the populace. Not trivial, but about the same proportion as, say, Malays in Chinese-dominated Singapore. Afro-American birth rates are below replacement level, just like whites. Also like whites, they are leaning toward the dysgenic, unfortunately. The only racial groups in America that even at replacement level are Hispanics and Pacific Islanders-not above, at. No wonder elites are so fanatical about mass immigration. If it wasn't for that, good luck keeping the population levels artificially up: and wages artificially down, rents artificially high, competition for education, resources, etc so high, etc, etc.

    I think Unz was onto something when he suggested that one of the real motives of mass immigration was to flush black people out of major cities, and if that's the case, it is succeeding: cities have been getting less white, but they've also been getting less black.

    Interestingly enough, I think the same thing has happened with sexual minorities. Gays are about 1-2 percent of the populace in the United States. Even if we are generous with the amount of closeted cases or bisexuals who aren't interested in being part of gay culture and decline to be noted as such, I'm willing to bet the average American now thinks there are way more of them then there actually are. I'm also willing to bet that most don't realize that "camp" gays are a minority within the minority, which I suspect is a result of the media pandering to straight women who love the idea of male friends who share their interests and bring all the benefits of not being other women without bringing potentially unwelcome sexual or romantic interest. In practice, this tends to deeply annoy non-camp homosexual men. "No, I am *not* interested in going clothes shopping, and I'm definitely not interested in hearing about your boyfriend problems..."

    I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States.

    Blacks believe they comprise a much larger segment of the American than they actually do. A significant number of blacks believe they comprise 50% or more of the population. This has a real impact on their expectations for society.

    Something I’ve noticed recently is that Hollywood has changed the “4 Friends Rule”, whereby in every movie or TV show if there are four friends one must be black. Now it’s the “3 Friends Rule”, and one of every three must be black. Soon it’ll be 2 Friends. Meanwhile in the real world people are mainly friends with their own race.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    And commercials are worse than TV shows or movies -- it's already The Two-Friends Rule there (or Married Couple Rule). Plus blacks in all kinds of absurd non-black situations, like vacationing in NY State forests.and rivers
  91. @Paleo Liberal
    Steve once did a blog post about whether prog rock or punk rock was the “whitest” form of rock.

    Who was whiter? Keith Emerson or Joey Ramone?

    I once ran across a cover Mike Love did of “Rockaway Beach”, which was sort of the Ramones’ tribute to The Beach Boys. That was very white of Mike Love to do that.

    “… prog rock or punk rock …”

    Prog rock is far whiter than punk. Punk is essentially rambunctious clatter made by guys who can’t play their instruments. Punk also killed its raison d’etre by becoming hip and fashionable. Prog has never been hip. And by far the whitest prog rock album ever produced is Grace Under Pressure (1984) by Rush.

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
    Yea this was always a silly question. Punk rock was white but not at all nerdy. Prog rock is the most nerdy thing on earth. Although this is fading somewhat now nothing kept blacks out more than nerdom.
  92. We can start paying royalties to black blues guitarists for “stealing” their sound when they start paying royalties to the Europeans from whom they “stole” the six-string guitar. From Wikipedia:

    Many influences are cited as antecedents to the modern guitar. Although the development of the earliest “guitars” is lost in the history of medieval Spain, two instruments are commonly cited as their most influential predecessors, the European lute and its cousin, the four-string oud; the latter was brought to Iberia by the Moors in the 8th century.[5]

    At least two instruments called “guitars” were in use in Spain by 1200: the guitarra latina (Latin guitar) and the so-called guitarra morisca (Moorish guitar). The guitarra morisca had a rounded back, wide fingerboard, and several sound holes. The guitarra Latina had a single sound hole and a narrower neck. By the 14th century the qualifiers “moresca” or “morisca” and “latina” had been dropped, and these two cordophones were simply referred to as guitars.[6]

    The Spanish vihuela, called in Italian the “viola da mano”, a guitar-like instrument of the 15th and 16th centuries, is widely considered to have been the single most important influence in the development of the baroque guitar. It had six courses (usually), lute-like tuning in fourths and a guitar-like body, although early representations reveal an instrument with a sharply cut waist. It was also larger than the contemporary four-course guitars. By the 16th century, the vihuela’s construction had more in common with the modern guitar, with its curved one-piece ribs, than with the viols, and more like a larger version of the contemporary four-course guitars. The vihuela enjoyed only a relatively short period of popularity in Spain and Italy during an era dominated elsewhere in Europe by the lute; the last surviving published music for the instrument appeared in 1576.[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar#History

    • Replies: @Anon
    By the way, YouTube is full of hour-long videos of guys making or repairing acoustic and electric guitars. If you are a guy, DO NOT WATCH THESE. You will get sucked in and end up in rehab. These videos would be the perfect thing for Hobby Lobby to show in their husband daycare room.
  93. @nebulafox
    I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States. In reality they are about 13% of the populace. Not trivial, but about the same proportion as, say, Malays in Chinese-dominated Singapore. Afro-American birth rates are below replacement level, just like whites. Also like whites, they are leaning toward the dysgenic, unfortunately. The only racial groups in America that even at replacement level are Hispanics and Pacific Islanders-not above, at. No wonder elites are so fanatical about mass immigration. If it wasn't for that, good luck keeping the population levels artificially up: and wages artificially down, rents artificially high, competition for education, resources, etc so high, etc, etc.

    I think Unz was onto something when he suggested that one of the real motives of mass immigration was to flush black people out of major cities, and if that's the case, it is succeeding: cities have been getting less white, but they've also been getting less black.

    Interestingly enough, I think the same thing has happened with sexual minorities. Gays are about 1-2 percent of the populace in the United States. Even if we are generous with the amount of closeted cases or bisexuals who aren't interested in being part of gay culture and decline to be noted as such, I'm willing to bet the average American now thinks there are way more of them then there actually are. I'm also willing to bet that most don't realize that "camp" gays are a minority within the minority, which I suspect is a result of the media pandering to straight women who love the idea of male friends who share their interests and bring all the benefits of not being other women without bringing potentially unwelcome sexual or romantic interest. In practice, this tends to deeply annoy non-camp homosexual men. "No, I am *not* interested in going clothes shopping, and I'm definitely not interested in hearing about your boyfriend problems..."

    Are you a “non camp”?

  94. @Jonathan Mason

    Gays are about 1-2 percent of the populace in the United States.
     
    I would have thought at least 50%, but perhaps I have been watching too much TV! In truth I have hardly watched any TV in the last 25 years, but gays are probably vastly overrated in all kinds of entertainment media such as movies and TV, so that creates an illusion that they are all around us.

    In music it has been standard procedure for decades for recording artists and performers to dress up in androgenous stylings and fashions designed to shock parents, to the point that even Michael Jackson was regarded as kind of normal apart from the single glove, the amputated nose, and the fact that he started life as an African-American, but converted late in life.

    It used to be the case that people were obviously gay, like Liberace, but at least had the decency to deny it for public consumption and for the sake of the children and sued people who said he was gay, right up to the time that he died of AIDS.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberace_v_Daily_Mirror

    For some inexplicable reason the venerable eternally young bachelor boy pop star Cliff Richard comes to mind with this song, which proved to be highly prophetic as far as he was concerned.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE_1NB8DN08

    As Cole Porter wrote, in 1934:

    In olden days a glimpse of stocking
    Was looked on as something shocking
    Now heaven knows, anything
    goes

    That was pretty gay!
    But now I can’t stop playing the song in me ‘ed!

  95. @AnotherDad

    For centuries, black music, forged in bondage, has been the sound of complete artistic freedom. No wonder everybody is always stealing it.
     
    Deal!

    Whites must stop listening to black music and remove any specifically black contributions/elements from their music, as well as stop watching black athletes, entertainers, etc.

    In return, blacks should stop driving cars, taking buses+trains, flying on planes; stop using refrigeration, gas or electric furnaces, computers, phones, electric or gas ovens, electric lights, electricity in general, modern drugs or surgery, anti-biotics, vaccines, potable tap water, flush toilets, bicycles, paved roads, glasses, books, printing, writing, brass instruments … and English.

    Then we'll be square.

    No Dad, much as I love your comments here, you know we have to learn to live with each other. There isn’t going to be a separate Euro nation, not now, not ever. If it were to happen, it would be the first instance of such an event in the history of Man, not to mention the history of all genetic beings. Once a unique genesis enters a population, it doesn’t leave unless exterminated under highly improbable circumstances.

  96. @Jonathan Mason

    Gays are about 1-2 percent of the populace in the United States.
     
    I would have thought at least 50%, but perhaps I have been watching too much TV! In truth I have hardly watched any TV in the last 25 years, but gays are probably vastly overrated in all kinds of entertainment media such as movies and TV, so that creates an illusion that they are all around us.

    In music it has been standard procedure for decades for recording artists and performers to dress up in androgenous stylings and fashions designed to shock parents, to the point that even Michael Jackson was regarded as kind of normal apart from the single glove, the amputated nose, and the fact that he started life as an African-American, but converted late in life.

    It used to be the case that people were obviously gay, like Liberace, but at least had the decency to deny it for public consumption and for the sake of the children and sued people who said he was gay, right up to the time that he died of AIDS.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberace_v_Daily_Mirror

    For some inexplicable reason the venerable eternally young bachelor boy pop star Cliff Richard comes to mind with this song, which proved to be highly prophetic as far as he was concerned.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE_1NB8DN08

    As Cole Porter wrote, in 1934:

    In olden days a glimpse of stocking
    Was looked on as something shocking
    Now heaven knows, anything
    goes

    That was pretty gay!
    But now I can’t stop playing the song in me ‘ed!

  97. OT OT OT
    Example #99 on why not to take selfie photos by the cliff side. In this case a 30 something doctor. Must have at least a 20 point above average IQ one would think. Nice fiancee. He took the plunge in Ibiza, Spain. I am also going to go out on a limb and blame demon rum.
    https://www.local10.com/news/florida/kendall/doctor-living-in-miami-falls-to-his-death-during-vacation-in-ibiza

  98. Anon[306] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    Article is extremely long and poorly written. I advise against reading it even for a “know your enemy” perspective.

    Much of it reminds me of a string of youtube music video comments.

    I suggest instead reading John McWhorter’s powerful, well-written classic How Hip Hop Holds Blacks Back:

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-hip-hop-holds-blacks-back-12442.html

    Hip Hip and rap were simply the blacks’ response to punk. As soon as white music started sounding more ferocious and aggressive, blacks realized that if they didn’t start sounding more aggressive too, everyone would think they were a bunch of wimps. Blacks performing disco and soul disappeared pretty quickly after punk arrived, and hip hip and rap emerged. Themes of love got replaced by themes of violence and protest, an exact copy of what whites were doing with punk. Hip hip and rap even sampled white rock and roll like crazy. Hip hop and rap were very influenced by what white musicians were doing.

  99. @Lurker
    I recall a similar survey where people were asked what they thought the gay percentage was, again massively overestimated. Something like 25%. A delusion that can only result from the MSM.

    When I was at UCLA the gay student campus newspaper was named Ten Percent, two or three times beyond reality.

  100. Anon[280] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hypnotoad666
    We can start paying royalties to black blues guitarists for "stealing" their sound when they start paying royalties to the Europeans from whom they "stole" the six-string guitar. From Wikipedia:

    Many influences are cited as antecedents to the modern guitar. Although the development of the earliest "guitars" is lost in the history of medieval Spain, two instruments are commonly cited as their most influential predecessors, the European lute and its cousin, the four-string oud; the latter was brought to Iberia by the Moors in the 8th century.[5]

    At least two instruments called "guitars" were in use in Spain by 1200: the guitarra latina (Latin guitar) and the so-called guitarra morisca (Moorish guitar). The guitarra morisca had a rounded back, wide fingerboard, and several sound holes. The guitarra Latina had a single sound hole and a narrower neck. By the 14th century the qualifiers "moresca" or "morisca" and "latina" had been dropped, and these two cordophones were simply referred to as guitars.[6]

    The Spanish vihuela, called in Italian the "viola da mano", a guitar-like instrument of the 15th and 16th centuries, is widely considered to have been the single most important influence in the development of the baroque guitar. It had six courses (usually), lute-like tuning in fourths and a guitar-like body, although early representations reveal an instrument with a sharply cut waist. It was also larger than the contemporary four-course guitars. By the 16th century, the vihuela's construction had more in common with the modern guitar, with its curved one-piece ribs, than with the viols, and more like a larger version of the contemporary four-course guitars. The vihuela enjoyed only a relatively short period of popularity in Spain and Italy during an era dominated elsewhere in Europe by the lute; the last surviving published music for the instrument appeared in 1576.[7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar#History
     

    By the way, YouTube is full of hour-long videos of guys making or repairing acoustic and electric guitars. If you are a guy, DO NOT WATCH THESE. You will get sucked in and end up in rehab. These videos would be the perfect thing for Hobby Lobby to show in their husband daycare room.

  101. I would be thrilled to death if white singers, especially female,would stop stealing tics from black vocal style. I hate that yodeling shit they add to any note that lasts longer than half a second. That’s what drove me to country music.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    Country music used to have yodeling.
    , @The Wild Geese Howard

    I would be thrilled to death if white singers, especially female,would stop stealing tics from black vocal style.
     
    Don't hold your breath.

    Even the bastion of K-pop is beginning to negrify.
    , @Kyle
    Are you saying you didn’t like fergies rendition of the national anthem?
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CMA2iF6RuXk
    , @Kyle
    Whitney Houston was very talented.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N_lCmBvYMRs
    The problem is now every two bit Whitney Houston wannabe thinks they are talented as well. At least Beyonce had the decency to lip sync to a pre recorded tape during the second Obama inauguration. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qGDH18R7GfA
    White girls are very stupid and impressionable. As a culture we praise talentless Whitney Houston knockoffs when they sing the national anthem at the super bowl. Through a combination of vanity and tone deafness, white girls think they are just as good as Whitney Houston by mimicking her delivery, badly. Country music isn’t safe. Here is Carrie Underwood from the super bowl sounding like a dying goat. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IoSPFoV-6VU
  102. Blacks should be paying us reparations for inflicting rap music on us not to mention their cultural appropriation of white musical instruments.

    • Agree: Clyde
  103. @Anon
    I would be thrilled to death if white singers, especially female,would stop stealing tics from black vocal style. I hate that yodeling shit they add to any note that lasts longer than half a second. That's what drove me to country music.

    Country music used to have yodeling.

    • Replies: @Jim bob Lassiter
    The banjo is derived from some sort of primitive African stringed instrument that evolved in the Caribbean. The steel guitar and pedal steel guitar, however, have a far more convoluted evolutionary path involving intersectionalities of early European sailing exploration in the Pacific, World War II, and the post war economic boom.

    Buddy Cage explains it here and other than his gaffe about I-95 (which didn't exist in 1948) and his pronunciation of San Pedro it seems authoritative.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um9FVFTmD_I
    , @Cortes
    Indeed.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2vcjhj_-1kA
    , @Reg Cæsar

    Country music used to have yodeling.
     
    Country-and-western had yodeling. Mostly the western.

    Whatever happened to "C&W"? As in, "Digs C & W and R & B and me and the chimpanzee agree that one day soon he'll be a celebrity". (Beats Johnny B Goode)


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bZS1-en398

    Oh, if only this Slim owned the New York Times...

    , @Anon

    Country music used to have yodeling.
     
    O.K., my sarcasm wasn’t detected, so I looked up the actual word: "R&B and gospel melisma.”

    When did this contaminate pop music? Ronnie Spector didn’t need it.

    Apparently it’s fading in popularity, can I get a hallelujah!:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/arts/music/26browne.html

    Although there’s nothing simple about it, melisma in its simplest form is a vocal technique in which a series of notes is stretched into one syllable. Its roots can be tracked back to gospel, blues and even Gregorian chant; Ray Charles, Aretha Franklin and Stevie Wonder used it sparingly early in their careers.

    But beginning two decades ago, melisma overtook pop in a way it hadn’t before. Mariah Carey’s debut hit from 1990, “Vision of Love,” followed two years later by Whitney Houston’s version of “I Will Always Love You,” set the bar insanely high for notes stretched louder, longer and knottier than most pop fans had ever heard. A subsequent generation of singers, including Ms. Aguilera, Jennifer Hudson and Beyoncé, built their careers around melisma. (Men like Brian McKnight and Tyrese also indulged in it, but women tended to dominate the form.)
     
  104. @Steve Sailer
    Country music used to have yodeling.

    The banjo is derived from some sort of primitive African stringed instrument that evolved in the Caribbean. The steel guitar and pedal steel guitar, however, have a far more convoluted evolutionary path involving intersectionalities of early European sailing exploration in the Pacific, World War II, and the post war economic boom.

    Buddy Cage explains it here and other than his gaffe about I-95 (which didn’t exist in 1948) and his pronunciation of San Pedro it seems authoritative.

  105. @Steve Sailer
    Country music used to have yodeling.

    Indeed.

  106. @Hypnotoad666

    The flaw in the Current Year Narrative in a nutshell. The emotional appeal is enormously powerful at first pass but crumbles under analysis.
     
    The left simply can't prove its narrative with honest, intellectually rigorous analysis because the narrative is false. So instead you see an endless parade of propaganda that simply uses slanted language, PC cliches and circular reasoning.

    A perfect example, which also invokes the "theft from black people" trope, is an idiotic piece in The Atlantic which they variously title as "The Mississippi Delta's History of Black Land Theft" or the "The Great Land Robbery." https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/09/this-land-was-our-land/594742/

    A war waged by deed of title has dispossessed 98 percent of black agricultural landowners in America. They have lost 12 million acres over the past century.
     
    The article refers to the "war" "theft" "loss" and "dispossession" of land. And blacks being "ripped" from the land. But after a few thousand words of bumbling incoherence and non sequitur assertions, you eventually discovery that the author is just talking about the fact that small black farmers over time have voluntarily sold their farms and gotten out of the really crappy, uneconomical small farm business.

    Never once does the dishonest dummy who wrote this piece acknowledge that 98+% of all farmers also exited the farm business during this period.

    In 1870, almost 50 percent of the U.S. population was employed in agriculture.[19] As of 2008, less than 2 percent of the population is directly employed in agriculture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_the_United_States#Farm_type_or_majority_enterprise_type
     
    I'm sure most of the people who read that article just nod along at the virtue signalling noises about victimized blacks and evil whites. But the deliberate stupidity and dishonesty of these propagandists just never gets challenged. (For obvious reasons, The Atlantic has no comments section).

    The Atlantic used to have Disqus comments, long gone now, and they had already banned me before that.

  107. @Anon
    I would be thrilled to death if white singers, especially female,would stop stealing tics from black vocal style. I hate that yodeling shit they add to any note that lasts longer than half a second. That's what drove me to country music.

    I would be thrilled to death if white singers, especially female,would stop stealing tics from black vocal style.

    Don’t hold your breath.

    Even the bastion of K-pop is beginning to negrify.

  108. @Steve Sailer
    Country music used to have yodeling.

    Country music used to have yodeling.

    Country-and-western had yodeling. Mostly the western.

    Whatever happened to “C&W”? As in, “Digs C & W and R & B and me and the chimpanzee agree that one day soon he’ll be a celebrity”. (Beats Johnny B Goode)

    Oh, if only this Slim owned the New York Times…

  109. @the one they call Desanex
    The Beatles only borrowed one line from “You Can’t Catch Me”: “Here come a flat-top, he was movin’ up with me” became “Here come ol’ Flat-Top, he come groovin’ up slowly” in “Come Together”. It was a quote from or an allusion to the Berry song. Anybody but Chuck Berry would’ve considered it a flattering tribute.

    Don’t agree. The first four measures are C. Berry’s work.

  110. @Paleo Liberal
    Steve once did a blog post about whether prog rock or punk rock was the “whitest” form of rock.

    Who was whiter? Keith Emerson or Joey Ramone?

    I once ran across a cover Mike Love did of “Rockaway Beach”, which was sort of the Ramones’ tribute to The Beach Boys. That was very white of Mike Love to do that.

    Steve once did a blog post about whether prog rock or punk rock was the “whitest” form of rock.

    Metallica is probably the “whitest” form of rock.

    Many of their tracks are deeply inspired by classical forms, which are the whitest type of music of all time.

    There is a reason they are doing another concert with the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra.

  111. @Pericles
    Perhaps black music is artistically exhausted and hence on its way out. We have had rap now since the late 1970s, something like 40 years by now. The 40 years before that, blacks came up with blues, rock, jazz, soul, disco.

    I believe December 5th 2019 will mark the 40th anniversary of the first rap song I ever heard on Top 40 AM radio in Houston: Rapper’s Delight. I said to myself: “This is a good novelty tune. I bet this kind of gimmick will be popular for the next 12 or even 18 months.”

    • Replies: @95Theses
    I remember this. But it had actual instruments. Not the same.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKTUAESacQM
  112. @Paleo Liberal
    There were two sides of the story with cultural appropriation of black music by white musicians.

    Yes, the white musicians usually made more money off of it. OTOH, the appropriation gave the black musicians more exposure, and led to greater fame.

    For example, Chuck Berry's music was constantly appropriated by the Beatles. Sometimes it was direct covers, esp. George Harrison doing "Roll Over Beethoven". Other times the Beatles stole parts of his song, most famously Lennon stealing parts of Berry's 1956 song "You Can't Catch Me for the Beatles song "Come Together"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKrHzps0XM

    Berry was p*ssed, but he knew the Beatles had made him more popular. Chuck Berry and John Lennon even performed together, which helped spread Berry's fame.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKrHzps0XM

    Eventually Berry sued Lennon for plagiarism. They reached a friendly agreement. In Lennon's "Rock and Roll" album, Lennon covered three of Chick Berry's songs, including "You Can't Catch Me".

    The suit was brought by Moishe Levy. He owned the rights to the song not Berry.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    Thanks
  113. @bomag
    Import the music, not the people.

    I recall Paul Simon putting out the explicitly African influenced album Graceland as a sort of homage to Black music. He seemed mainly to get criticized for cultural appropriation.

    Los Lobos says Paul Simon flat out stole a song they were rehearsing for next album and put it on his Graceland. The first time I heard it on the radio, I said: Oh, that’s Los Lobos playing guitars.

  114. @Wilkey
    The specific contributions of blacks to Western culture and science only stand out because they have been so minute. It is pretty much taken for granted that the vast majority of culture and science has been created by whites. It is so much taken for granted that few people really think about it.

    A few years ago there was a big kerfuffle over some white girl who wore a "Chinese" dress to her prom. Some random Chinese-American idiot called her out on her cultural appropriation. No one ever bothered to challenge him as to why he was questioning her "appropriation" using the English language.

    Blacks, of course, will justly point out that for most of them their arrival here was involuntary, so questioning their use of English would be a bit unfair. But there are plenty of other cultural and scientific inventions they needn't feel forced to use, such as pretty much every instrument used to create music, not to mention virtually all of the technology used to record and transmit it.

    Not to mention the fact that said dress was very likely fabricated on a power loom, all courtesy of white inventors Edmund Cartwright and John Kay.

  115. @Steve Sailer
    I believe December 5th 2019 will mark the 40th anniversary of the first rap song I ever heard on Top 40 AM radio in Houston: Rapper's Delight. I said to myself: "This is a good novelty tune. I bet this kind of gimmick will be popular for the next 12 or even 18 months."

    I remember this. But it had actual instruments. Not the same.

  116. @jcd1974
    Is there anything whiter that a Blues festival?

    The great Blues revival of the mid-1960s was notable for the fact that while millions of white teenagers embraced the Blues, their black counterparts had no interest in it.

    Not quite correct. I was a regular attendee of the Chicago Blues Festival in the eighties and nineties. Yes, the crowd was majority white. But there was always a significant contingent of black women that came to listen to the popular music of their youth.

  117. @Anonymous
    Yang's explanation is a too Machiavellian. Imo this all began with the Trayvon Martin case, which touched a nerve in the black community. The increased sensitization resulted in Ferguson, Freddie Gray and the various other police-brutality uproars. Increased bourgeois white anxiety about black issues opened the door for an endless parade of black grifters and charlatans to try and sell the Angry (but not too angry) Black Man schtick to guilty white liberals. Ta-Nehisi Coates is the exemplar here.

    This is a great angle for black journalists and intellectual types: there's a lot of demand for it, blacks have an exclusive claim to this material and because you occupy an unimpeachable moral high ground you are beyond polite criticism and can be sloppy in a way you couldn't be covering, say, East Asian politics. Enter Jamelle Bouie, Jelani Cobb, Jamil Smith, Adam Serwer and probably a dozen others I can't recall at the moment.

    This "1619 Project" is the brainchild of Nikole Hannah-Jones, the racial beat-writer for the NYT, whom I've been peripherally following for awhile now. She refers to herself on Twitter as "The Beyoncé of Journalism," as far as I can tell unironically. She is obsessed with blackness to a degree that sets her apart even from her co-grifters like Bouie and Cobb; it's very nearly all she talks about. Something about her always struck me as a little off, and I was enlightened to learn that her mother is white and that she grew up in Iowa. The armchair psychologist in me says that, grift aside, she overdoes black schtick because she feels insecure about her rather marginal blackness. Christopher Hitchens once made the point that nationalism is often strongest on the periphery (Hitler was Austrian, Napoleon was Corsican etc) and I think you could list her as an example of this phenomenon.

    Jones is, I've noticed, also more party-line than her coevals. Cobb, for example, recently wrote a piece somewhat chastising the black community for its continued embrace of R. Kelly after the incriminating videotape had been released; I can't imagine Jones ever writing that piece. She also seems politically more radical than the rest of her lot; she has made a lot of disparaging remarks about Asian-American activists in NYC (in relation to the SHSAT issue), and she's also tweeted out occasional support for the Palestinians, which is something that most establishment black journalists will NEVER do (even indirectly, such as in defending Ilhan Omar when Republicans were attacking her for anti-Semitism).

    With regards to Hispanics, I think the plan is to cut them into any black entitlement, such as reparations; I've already heard several people say that this should be the case.

    What reparations to Mexicans? What for? Mexicans are not US citizens. Besides, we PAID Mexico for that big chunk of the Southwest. They already got their cash. They don’t get any more.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Cession

  118. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous
    Seems to be another variation of the 'send mo' money' theme. The instruments and amplification aren't black inventions so perhaps they need to acknowledge their debt for their successes in this area. Not going to happen though. Most black music is at the mental level of a fifteen year old anyway.

    Smart blacks (of which there are numerically not many, a given) in the jazz world composed things that made the most learned composers and music educators of Europe-not all, but many- truly amazed. At its best, American black music was exceptional and appealed to many of the finest tastes.

    That doesn’t mean that the average black is more talented than the average white nine year old at music, nor that he or she can run a society as well as white nine year olds, let alone the best white adults.

    Relatively speaking, music and athletics are black strong points. Some are even decent classical performers, maybe not the very best, but respectable.

    Organizing a society, obviously, is a black weak point.

    The total dysfunction of underclass black neighborhoods is proof of that.

    • Replies: @Simple Pseudonymic Handle

    At its best, American black music was exceptional and appealed to many of the finest tastes.
     
    Blacks have a natural sense of rhythm. They should receive welfare in the form of drumsticks or free one-way trips to Africa.
  119. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Paleo Liberal
    There were two sides of the story with cultural appropriation of black music by white musicians.

    Yes, the white musicians usually made more money off of it. OTOH, the appropriation gave the black musicians more exposure, and led to greater fame.

    For example, Chuck Berry's music was constantly appropriated by the Beatles. Sometimes it was direct covers, esp. George Harrison doing "Roll Over Beethoven". Other times the Beatles stole parts of his song, most famously Lennon stealing parts of Berry's 1956 song "You Can't Catch Me for the Beatles song "Come Together"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKrHzps0XM

    Berry was p*ssed, but he knew the Beatles had made him more popular. Chuck Berry and John Lennon even performed together, which helped spread Berry's fame.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jKrHzps0XM

    Eventually Berry sued Lennon for plagiarism. They reached a friendly agreement. In Lennon's "Rock and Roll" album, Lennon covered three of Chick Berry's songs, including "You Can't Catch Me".

    Chuck wrote the lyrics, the music was another black, Johnnie Johnson, a blues piano player.
    He got it from othr blacks, who adapted white and black sources. It goes back to Chick Webb, Cab Calloway and the now forgotten Slim Gaillard.

    In the remarkable documentary by Taylor “Mr. Helen Mirren, so you know I’m bejingled!” Hackford,
    Hail Hail Rock and Roll , you see the look on Berry acolyte Keith Richards’ face when he figures it out.

    The key (in which the music is played) is the key.
    Jazzbo crap on how one should be able to play in all 12 keys aside, guitar players gravitate to keys in which there are open strings, because they like to hear the open string and because it makes playing easier. Chuck’s performances often in flat keys, which piano players like, not guitar players.

    Johnny Johnson’s key.
    Sorry, the relevant clip eludes me on YouTube, but the movie is worth watching.

    Chuck was also always one with the girls. Wonder if he’ll make an apperance in this one’s upcomng autobiography…

  120. @Segeant Prepper
    OT: Speaking of people who owe you a check... Chances are you've already come across this book, Steve, but if not, it sounds like this author basically expanded The World's Most Important Graph into a book:

    https://www.amazon.com/Scramble-Europe-Young-Africa-Continent/dp/1509534563

    Here's Christopher Caldwell's review:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2019/08/26/the-coming-migration-out-of-sub-saharan-africa/

    Thanks.

  121. @Anon
    I would be thrilled to death if white singers, especially female,would stop stealing tics from black vocal style. I hate that yodeling shit they add to any note that lasts longer than half a second. That's what drove me to country music.

    Are you saying you didn’t like fergies rendition of the national anthem?

  122. @bgates
    Black music is a thing of value which ought to be owned by black people because they created it.

    That ownership ought to be protected by American copyright law, which like American citizenship is a thing of value which is part of the common heritage of all mankind.

    Black music is a thing of value which ought to be owned by black people because they created it.

    That’s right, bub, but the problem is that owning something also gives you the right to sell it, and blacks are notorious for trading in their things of value for items like Colt 45 Malt Liquor, and new 22″ spinners for their cars.

    That ownership ought to be protected by American copyright law, which like American citizenship is a thing of value which is part of the common heritage of all mankind.

    Yep. American citizenship belongs to everyone but Americans.
    Question, though: what exactly did we trade it in for?

  123. NYT’s 1619 Project in essence:

    “Blackety-Black-Black-Blackety-Black.”

  124. @ATBOTL
    Is this post a joke? What is the musical influence of indigenous music on this piece? The tonal structures, rhythms?

    I doubt Lead Belly had any indigenous blood, he looked 100% black.

    The lyrics were about an Indian dance.
    The rhythm may have been the rhythm of the actual dance.

  125. Anonymous[706] • Disclaimer says:

    It gets fuzzier after about 1970 (much like everything else) but I can’t think any scholars of American music writing about main-sequence jazz as wholly black-invented. The generation of performers who visited Europe after WWI would agree. Of course in the history of gospel/rock/R&B the overlapping with coevals in the white hillbilly & Anglo-Protestant tradition is even more obvious. One thing Steve hasn’t mentioned AFAIK is the tastemaker struggle *within* the black music subculture. Gangsta rap is one notorious example, but read about the origins of the Midwestern dance/techno wave which was proudly Europhilic at least in the Detroit scene. It was driven by college-educated suburbanites who disdained both the down-home soul singers of the chitlins circuit and the radio-friendly disco-purveying acts from the northeastern urban ghettos.

    How this unfolds in the compositional styles of the divergent music genres is a more technical discussion but I think modern mumble-rap and grime are geographically isolated attempts by black entertainers to carve out a business off-limits to white, white Hispanic, and now Asian contenders. BTW, why is *East* Asian pop music so persistently derivative and terrible? This was a joke in the 80s when I was growing up yet today everyone just accepts that Japanese and Korean recordings will always consist of nth-generation copying of American radio circa 5-6 years ago.

  126. @Jack Armstrong
    The suit was brought by Moishe Levy. He owned the rights to the song not Berry.

    Thanks

    • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
    Nice article on the lawsuits (plural) here:

    http://abbeyrd.net/lenlevy.htm
  127. @Jim Don Bob

    A delusion that can only result from the MSM.
     
    And from watching TV, especially recent commercials, someone from Mars might reasonably conclude that mixed couples are about 50% of the total.

    My lyin' eyes tell me that it's a very small number, and the couple is usually a black guy with an ugly fat white woman.

    I’ve told this story countless times and i think even here. I’ve been to trade shows where over lunch or dinner i’ll ask associates what they think of the USA and every time I’m asked the same question……”where are all the blacks?” It’s the opinion of my foreign associates that based on TV, movies, commercials and sports, the USA is 50% black folks.

  128. @Anon
    I would be thrilled to death if white singers, especially female,would stop stealing tics from black vocal style. I hate that yodeling shit they add to any note that lasts longer than half a second. That's what drove me to country music.

    Whitney Houston was very talented.

    The problem is now every two bit Whitney Houston wannabe thinks they are talented as well. At least Beyonce had the decency to lip sync to a pre recorded tape during the second Obama inauguration.

    White girls are very stupid and impressionable. As a culture we praise talentless Whitney Houston knockoffs when they sing the national anthem at the super bowl. Through a combination of vanity and tone deafness, white girls think they are just as good as Whitney Houston by mimicking her delivery, badly. Country music isn’t safe. Here is Carrie Underwood from the super bowl sounding like a dying goat.

  129. @Anonymous
    Yang's explanation is a too Machiavellian. Imo this all began with the Trayvon Martin case, which touched a nerve in the black community. The increased sensitization resulted in Ferguson, Freddie Gray and the various other police-brutality uproars. Increased bourgeois white anxiety about black issues opened the door for an endless parade of black grifters and charlatans to try and sell the Angry (but not too angry) Black Man schtick to guilty white liberals. Ta-Nehisi Coates is the exemplar here.

    This is a great angle for black journalists and intellectual types: there's a lot of demand for it, blacks have an exclusive claim to this material and because you occupy an unimpeachable moral high ground you are beyond polite criticism and can be sloppy in a way you couldn't be covering, say, East Asian politics. Enter Jamelle Bouie, Jelani Cobb, Jamil Smith, Adam Serwer and probably a dozen others I can't recall at the moment.

    This "1619 Project" is the brainchild of Nikole Hannah-Jones, the racial beat-writer for the NYT, whom I've been peripherally following for awhile now. She refers to herself on Twitter as "The Beyoncé of Journalism," as far as I can tell unironically. She is obsessed with blackness to a degree that sets her apart even from her co-grifters like Bouie and Cobb; it's very nearly all she talks about. Something about her always struck me as a little off, and I was enlightened to learn that her mother is white and that she grew up in Iowa. The armchair psychologist in me says that, grift aside, she overdoes black schtick because she feels insecure about her rather marginal blackness. Christopher Hitchens once made the point that nationalism is often strongest on the periphery (Hitler was Austrian, Napoleon was Corsican etc) and I think you could list her as an example of this phenomenon.

    Jones is, I've noticed, also more party-line than her coevals. Cobb, for example, recently wrote a piece somewhat chastising the black community for its continued embrace of R. Kelly after the incriminating videotape had been released; I can't imagine Jones ever writing that piece. She also seems politically more radical than the rest of her lot; she has made a lot of disparaging remarks about Asian-American activists in NYC (in relation to the SHSAT issue), and she's also tweeted out occasional support for the Palestinians, which is something that most establishment black journalists will NEVER do (even indirectly, such as in defending Ilhan Omar when Republicans were attacking her for anti-Semitism).

    With regards to Hispanics, I think the plan is to cut them into any black entitlement, such as reparations; I've already heard several people say that this should be the case.

    Yea and that was always a pretty silly point from Hitchens. Austria isn’t the periphery of the German world. If anything Hitler embodied the vindication of the Hapsburg world from the usurpers from Prussia. And Napoleon III was far more of a French nationalist than his Corsican uncle

  130. @Lot
    Young Asian American men seem to go through a rap phase at an even higher rate than whites.

    If you are trying to predict politics based on how big a wigger someone was at fourteen you aren’t going succeed very well.

    • Replies: @Lot
    Have I struck a raw nerve?

    https://thehiphopista.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/wigga.jpg
  131. @SunBakedSuburb
    "... prog rock or punk rock ..."

    Prog rock is far whiter than punk. Punk is essentially rambunctious clatter made by guys who can't play their instruments. Punk also killed its raison d'etre by becoming hip and fashionable. Prog has never been hip. And by far the whitest prog rock album ever produced is Grace Under Pressure (1984) by Rush.

    Yea this was always a silly question. Punk rock was white but not at all nerdy. Prog rock is the most nerdy thing on earth. Although this is fading somewhat now nothing kept blacks out more than nerdom.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    Renaissance was pretty darn white, rummaging through the classics for nearly every proggy song. But metal actually is the whitest music on Earth next to classical. (Even with a big following in Japan plus some Latin countries)
  132. @Pericles
    Perhaps black music is artistically exhausted and hence on its way out. We have had rap now since the late 1970s, something like 40 years by now. The 40 years before that, blacks came up with blues, rock, jazz, soul, disco.

    Rap died with biggie. Nobody actually “raps” anymore. Dominant hip hop of the last 20 years has been heavily dance, pop, or electronic music. If it includes elements of rap, the rapping is not the focus of the music. I don’t think black music broadly is stylistically exhausted but rap was exhausted 20 years ago. I think something like punk is bound to make a comeback. Music is super gay right now.

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
    Can boomers please just shut up already. You sound like my grandpa offering an opinion on The Bee Gees only he was far to cool to offer an opinion on shit he knew nothing about.

    I’d love to hear how youd classify Mo Bamba. And lol at Hypnotize being real hip hop or whatever the fuck your are talking about. I bet you wear a tribe called quest shirt.
  133. There isn’t going to be a separate Euro nation, not now, not ever.

    I’m going to patent a rubber stamp with the words “Not. Going. To. Happen.” I’ll make a fortune selling it to defeatist whites who think they’re somehow cool for black pilling anyone looking beyond present trends.

  134. Anon[675] • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    Country music used to have yodeling.

    Country music used to have yodeling.

    O.K., my sarcasm wasn’t detected, so I looked up the actual word: “R&B and gospel melisma.”

    When did this contaminate pop music? Ronnie Spector didn’t need it.

    Apparently it’s fading in popularity, can I get a hallelujah!:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/arts/music/26browne.html

    Although there’s nothing simple about it, melisma in its simplest form is a vocal technique in which a series of notes is stretched into one syllable. Its roots can be tracked back to gospel, blues and even Gregorian chant; Ray Charles, Aretha Franklin and Stevie Wonder used it sparingly early in their careers.

    But beginning two decades ago, melisma overtook pop in a way it hadn’t before. Mariah Carey’s debut hit from 1990, “Vision of Love,” followed two years later by Whitney Houston’s version of “I Will Always Love You,” set the bar insanely high for notes stretched louder, longer and knottier than most pop fans had ever heard. A subsequent generation of singers, including Ms. Aguilera, Jennifer Hudson and Beyoncé, built their careers around melisma. (Men like Brian McKnight and Tyrese also indulged in it, but women tended to dominate the form.)

  135. @Anonymous
    Smart blacks (of which there are numerically not many, a given) in the jazz world composed things that made the most learned composers and music educators of Europe-not all, but many- truly amazed. At its best, American black music was exceptional and appealed to many of the finest tastes.

    That doesn't mean that the average black is more talented than the average white nine year old at music, nor that he or she can run a society as well as white nine year olds, let alone the best white adults.

    Relatively speaking, music and athletics are black strong points. Some are even decent classical performers, maybe not the very best, but respectable.

    Organizing a society, obviously, is a black weak point.

    The total dysfunction of underclass black neighborhoods is proof of that.

    At its best, American black music was exceptional and appealed to many of the finest tastes.

    Blacks have a natural sense of rhythm. They should receive welfare in the form of drumsticks or free one-way trips to Africa.

  136. @Hypnotoad666

    The flaw in the Current Year Narrative in a nutshell. The emotional appeal is enormously powerful at first pass but crumbles under analysis.
     
    The left simply can't prove its narrative with honest, intellectually rigorous analysis because the narrative is false. So instead you see an endless parade of propaganda that simply uses slanted language, PC cliches and circular reasoning.

    A perfect example, which also invokes the "theft from black people" trope, is an idiotic piece in The Atlantic which they variously title as "The Mississippi Delta's History of Black Land Theft" or the "The Great Land Robbery." https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/09/this-land-was-our-land/594742/

    A war waged by deed of title has dispossessed 98 percent of black agricultural landowners in America. They have lost 12 million acres over the past century.
     
    The article refers to the "war" "theft" "loss" and "dispossession" of land. And blacks being "ripped" from the land. But after a few thousand words of bumbling incoherence and non sequitur assertions, you eventually discovery that the author is just talking about the fact that small black farmers over time have voluntarily sold their farms and gotten out of the really crappy, uneconomical small farm business.

    Never once does the dishonest dummy who wrote this piece acknowledge that 98+% of all farmers also exited the farm business during this period.

    In 1870, almost 50 percent of the U.S. population was employed in agriculture.[19] As of 2008, less than 2 percent of the population is directly employed in agriculture. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_the_United_States#Farm_type_or_majority_enterprise_type
     
    I'm sure most of the people who read that article just nod along at the virtue signalling noises about victimized blacks and evil whites. But the deliberate stupidity and dishonesty of these propagandists just never gets challenged. (For obvious reasons, The Atlantic has no comments section).

    The surviving farmers in the Midwest these days tend to have the skills of midlevel corporate executives with MBAs.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    The surviving farmers in the Midwest these days tend to have the skills of midlevel corporate executives with MBAs.
     
    Good point.

    Besides, if all those small black subsistence farms were still around The Atlantic would be writing articles about how blacks were being "shackled to the land" as a "legacy of slavery."
  137. @Lurker
    I recall a similar survey where people were asked what they thought the gay percentage was, again massively overestimated. Something like 25%. A delusion that can only result from the MSM.

    Most people aren’t good at estimating percentages, and they are especially bad at doing reality checks like subtracting the sum of their estimates from 100%.

  138. @Laurence Whelk
    I don’t need to read the article; the title pretty much says it all - and it has all been said before (though I’m not sure there has been any black music worth bragging about or “stealing” since the jazz of the late 1950s - Miles Davis, Duke Ellington, Sonny Rollins, etc.).

    But how fortunate for Wesley Morris that he can publicly proclaim and take unearned vicarious pride in the past (long past) cultural accomplishments of his RACE, while meekly suggesting that it’s “OK to be White” will get me in six different kinds of trouble before lunch. Who is oppressed (or maybe better, suppressed) here?

    (though I’m not sure there has been any black music worth bragging about or “stealing” since the jazz of the late 1950s – Miles Davis, Duke Ellington, Sonny Rollins, etc.).

    The only reason jazz still exists and is at all talked about is the stale pale male.

  139. @Kyle
    Rap died with biggie. Nobody actually “raps” anymore. Dominant hip hop of the last 20 years has been heavily dance, pop, or electronic music. If it includes elements of rap, the rapping is not the focus of the music. I don’t think black music broadly is stylistically exhausted but rap was exhausted 20 years ago. I think something like punk is bound to make a comeback. Music is super gay right now.

    Can boomers please just shut up already. You sound like my grandpa offering an opinion on The Bee Gees only he was far to cool to offer an opinion on shit he knew nothing about.

    I’d love to hear how youd classify Mo Bamba. And lol at Hypnotize being real hip hop or whatever the fuck your are talking about. I bet you wear a tribe called quest shirt.

  140. @Paleo Liberal
    Steve once did a blog post about whether prog rock or punk rock was the “whitest” form of rock.

    Who was whiter? Keith Emerson or Joey Ramone?

    I once ran across a cover Mike Love did of “Rockaway Beach”, which was sort of the Ramones’ tribute to The Beach Boys. That was very white of Mike Love to do that.

    “Who was whiter? Keith Emerson or Joey Ramone?”

    I thought the Ramones were jews posing as italians.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    I think Emerson was whiter than Joey Ramones.
    Steve seems to think the opposite.

    Actually, there wasn’t that big a difference between working class Jews and working class Italians. For a variety of reasons, such as when different groups immigrated, what neighborhoods they wound up in, and whom they hated, Germans and Irish often intermarried, but neither group married Italians or Jews. The Irish absolutely despised Jews. Nat Hentoff claimed he was regularly beaten up by Irish kids growing up who called him a “Christ killer”.

    The Italians and Jews lived in close proximity, and often intermarried. Howard Stern is half Italian, for example, and acts like a Ramone.

    Not to mention the close ties between Jewish and Italian gangsters. German and Irish gangs hated Jews, and during WW II the US used Jewish and Italian gangsters to help wipe out the German gangsters.


    I lived in a few ethnic neighborhoods in NYC. An Italian neighborhood in the Bronx had a few PRs and a few Jews. Only one German and no Irish. An Irish neighborhood was very close to a Jewish area, but they didn’t mix. I lived in a neighborhood in Brooklyn for a while that until recently was about half Italian and half Jewish. The groups were all next door to each other. The most famous guy from that neighborhood was The Hulk, as Italian as you can get.
  141. @Rich
    What's called "black music" was actually stolen from the Celtic music of the Scotch-Irish who lived in the South. Black "spirituals" are songs stolen and copied from English composers using European instruments. Even their dopey "rap" is just bad beat poetry. Primitive music in Africa bears no resemblance to black music in the US.

    Yes. Many of the hymns and spirituals most popular with groids were written by whites. Many musical groids, including Scott Joplin, had white teachers/mentors.

  142. @Reg Cæsar
    You can't say Chuck Berry couldn't write a tune. He wrote it over and over and over.

    Buddy Rich was a frequent guest on Douglas's show. But Mike was careful not to invite him this day. If Rich hated country music for being "simple", imagine what he would say about Berry. Both men were rank assholes, and it would have been fun to watch them duke it out. (And J&Y break out in "Give Peace a Chance".)

    Douglas seems to have turned Yoko's mike down. At another performance by this lineup, she comes up front to wail out of the blue, and Berry gives her a glare to inform her he'd like to perform Hiroshima on her.

    BTW, for those to whom it matters, Mike was a Mick. Douglas was born Dowd, not Demsky.

    Berry wan’t above ripping others off either. His hit song “You Never Can Tell” was lifted from Mitchell Torok’ s ( a white man who was a Hungarian immigrant to the U.S.) country hit “Caribbean” from 10-15 years earlier

  143. @Hypnotoad666

    the rising Latino and especially Asian populations don’t hold black culture or history in anywhere near the same regard as whites, and will pay a lot less attention than they are used to.
     
    Ditto for new "white" immigrants like Russians, Armenians, etc. I think they are mystified at the way progressive whites see blacks as their spirit animals.

    Agreed – anecdotal, but I had a conversation at the gym with a couple of guys who are both immigrants, and somehow BLM came up and their views on that and related matters were decidedly uncomplimentary. The most pro-black people I know are almost all liberal whites who grew up and still live with absolutely no diversity in their neighborhood or the schools they send their kids to.

    I do think there is an effort to make it look like there is common cause between various POCs and certainly the activists of all stripes make it look that way through their efforts at ‘representation’ in various political organizations, but look at what ordinary people do in their personal lives. It’s one thing to buy albums and NBA jerseys, it’s something entirely different to decide you want to integrate that kind of culture into where you live or send your kids to school.

  144. @Pericles
    Perhaps black music is artistically exhausted and hence on its way out. We have had rap now since the late 1970s, something like 40 years by now. The 40 years before that, blacks came up with blues, rock, jazz, soul, disco.

    Rap is more than 50 years old if you count the influence of Gil Scott-Heron (who also did plenty of listenable actual music)

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Rap is more than 50 years old if you count the influence of Gil Scott-Heron (who also did plenty of listenable actual music)
     
    Linton Kwesi Johnson and other Jamaican dub poets were active from the 1970's and appear to have had a lot of influence on rap and hip hop just as the Mississippi Delta and Chicago bluesmen influenced popular performers like Mick Jagger and Eric Clapton.

    Johnson's poems first appeared in the journal Race Today, which published his first collection of poetry, Voices of the Living and the Dead, in 1974.

    The musical accompaniment in this track is obviously reggae-based.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbL2FvvV5HA

    Mutabaruka (Allen Hope) also started composing in the early 70's.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-gMEqwcMTE
  145. @Sam Haysom
    Yea this was always a silly question. Punk rock was white but not at all nerdy. Prog rock is the most nerdy thing on earth. Although this is fading somewhat now nothing kept blacks out more than nerdom.

    Renaissance was pretty darn white, rummaging through the classics for nearly every proggy song. But metal actually is the whitest music on Earth next to classical. (Even with a big following in Japan plus some Latin countries)

  146. @jcd1974

    I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States.
     
    Blacks believe they comprise a much larger segment of the American than they actually do. A significant number of blacks believe they comprise 50% or more of the population. This has a real impact on their expectations for society.

    Something I've noticed recently is that Hollywood has changed the "4 Friends Rule", whereby in every movie or TV show if there are four friends one must be black. Now it's the "3 Friends Rule", and one of every three must be black. Soon it'll be 2 Friends. Meanwhile in the real world people are mainly friends with their own race.

    And commercials are worse than TV shows or movies — it’s already The Two-Friends Rule there (or Married Couple Rule). Plus blacks in all kinds of absurd non-black situations, like vacationing in NY State forests.and rivers

  147. @Lot
    Article is extremely long and poorly written. I advise against reading it even for a “know your enemy” perspective.

    Much of it reminds me of a string of youtube music video comments.

    I suggest instead reading John McWhorter’s powerful, well-written classic How Hip Hop Holds Blacks Back:

    https://www.city-journal.org/html/how-hip-hop-holds-blacks-back-12442.html

    I suggest instead reading John McWhorter’s powerful, well-written classic How Hip Hop Holds Blacks Back:

    Nah, McWhorter be ‘frontin’. If you want authentic black experience you gotta listen to N.W.A. from back when rap was real. And don’t let anybody dis’ my brother Ice Cube just cuz he grew up in Encino and plays a cop on TV. Here’s a sample of his street wisdom:

    [Verse 3: Ice Cube]
    I once knew a bitch who got slapped
    ‘Cause she played me like she was all that
    A bitch can be your best friend talking behind your back (yeah?)
    About who’s fucking who and who’s getting fat
    Look at yourself for me (look, bitch)
    Now do you fall in this category?
    Or you the kind that won’t blink
    ‘Cause you don’t think your shit stink
    Lucky I haven’t had a drink
    ‘Cause I’d down your ass
    Then I’d clown your ass
    ‘Cause the niggas I hang with ain’t rich
    We’ll all say “Fuck you bitch!” (word)
    Now what can I do with a ho like you
    Bend your ass over and then I’m through (get the fuck out)
    ‘Cause you see Ice Cube ain’t taking no shit
    (Why?) ‘Cause I think a bitch is a bitch
    https://genius.com/Nwa-a-bitch-iz-a-bitch-lyrics

  148. @Steve Sailer
    The surviving farmers in the Midwest these days tend to have the skills of midlevel corporate executives with MBAs.

    The surviving farmers in the Midwest these days tend to have the skills of midlevel corporate executives with MBAs.

    Good point.

    Besides, if all those small black subsistence farms were still around The Atlantic would be writing articles about how blacks were being “shackled to the land” as a “legacy of slavery.”

    • Agree: Lot
  149. @SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle
    "Who was whiter? Keith Emerson or Joey Ramone?"

    I thought the Ramones were jews posing as italians.

    I think Emerson was whiter than Joey Ramones.
    Steve seems to think the opposite.

    Actually, there wasn’t that big a difference between working class Jews and working class Italians. For a variety of reasons, such as when different groups immigrated, what neighborhoods they wound up in, and whom they hated, Germans and Irish often intermarried, but neither group married Italians or Jews. The Irish absolutely despised Jews. Nat Hentoff claimed he was regularly beaten up by Irish kids growing up who called him a “Christ killer”.

    The Italians and Jews lived in close proximity, and often intermarried. Howard Stern is half Italian, for example, and acts like a Ramone.

    Not to mention the close ties between Jewish and Italian gangsters. German and Irish gangs hated Jews, and during WW II the US used Jewish and Italian gangsters to help wipe out the German gangsters.

    I lived in a few ethnic neighborhoods in NYC. An Italian neighborhood in the Bronx had a few PRs and a few Jews. Only one German and no Irish. An Irish neighborhood was very close to a Jewish area, but they didn’t mix. I lived in a neighborhood in Brooklyn for a while that until recently was about half Italian and half Jewish. The groups were all next door to each other. The most famous guy from that neighborhood was The Hulk, as Italian as you can get.

    • Replies: @SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle
    Great reply, Paleo. Thanks. I am of Italian descent, and was born in a very Jewish part of New York during the early 80s. People often mistake me as Jewish. It made a lot of sense what you wrote.
    , @Dissident
    Very interesting comments Paleo and SIMPLE. I also grew-up in New York City, my family pretty-secular and non-observant, though strongly identified Jews.

    My mother grew-up in an area of the Bronx that, in addition to being heavily Jewish, was also heavily Irish. My mother recalls living in some degree of fear of the Irish youth, whom she recalls as being rather tough and generally hostile toward the Jews of the neighborhood. My mother, who was blessed with vividly red hair, also claims that she was often mistaken for being Irish.

    (FWIW, my late father had an interest in Ireland and visited it at least once in his life.)


    The Italians and Jews lived in close proximity, and often intermarried.
     
    My understanding, which would seem consistent with my experience, is that Italians have always been one of the most friendly of all peoples to Jews. I am surely not the first to have observed a fair amount of similarity and overlap in temperament, personality, culture and values, between Italians and Jews. A certain warmth, candidness, and brashness are specific traits that I think of being common to both groups. The emphasis on family life and its place within the culture could perhaps be added to the list.

    (I would place Howard Stern and organized crime gangsters, both of which you cited, among examples of the worst manifestations/aspects of the aforementioned traits and characteristics.)

    As a Jew, I feel a special sense of gratitude to the Italian people for their kindness toward Jews during the Nazi genocide. From what I have heard, even Mussolini had no personal animus toward Jews and only reluctantly went along with Hitler's demands to turn-over Jews.

    As for intermarriage with Jews, I would not be surprised if at one time, Italians topped the list of groups that Jews have married into. (I believe that place has since been taken by Asians.) My family knew and was close to at least several Jewish-Italian couples/families. (Within my own family, I can think of at least one cousin who married an Italian woman.) Don't forget New York Governor Fiorello LaGuardia. Might he have been the most famous product of a Jewish-Italian marriage?


    I lived in a neighborhood in Brooklyn for a while that until recently was about half Italian and half Jewish. The groups were all next door to each other. The most famous guy from that neighborhood was The Hulk, as Italian as you can get.
     
    You do realize, I hope, that with that last bit of information, you left no doubt as to which neighborhood you were referring-to. I would name it but since most people reading likely would not know and are unlikely to go the trouble of looking it up, I think it best to refrain.
  150. @Colin Wright
    '...I once read a statistic that as a result of media over-representation, people generally think that blacks make up 1/3rd of the United States. In reality they are about 13% of the populace....'

    This is perhaps a red herring, but blacks also 'stand out' more.

    Aside from the detail that you're naturally going to pay more attention to the crocodile sharing the swimming hole with you than the water buffalo, they're just out more, and they're louder.

    Two striking examples from my personal experience.

    We were once visiting someone who was living in a smallish housing product. Initially, it appeared everyone was black; that's everyone who was loitering outside. It was only around day three or so that I realized actually, most of the people there were non-black, if not precisely white. It's just that they only briefly appeared in the morning on their way to work or school and then briefly reappeared in the afternoon on their way back home from work or school as they scurried quickly into the relative safety of their apartments.

    The second time was when I went up to my son's high school. From immediately outside the administration building, it sounded as if the student body was entirely black; that's everyone you could hear. It was only after entering the building that it became apparent that the school was at most a third black.

    My high school was around 10% black. Most of the blacks were bused in from a different part of the county. When the black buses arrived, the noise level in the school would increase 2-3x. It was astounding. Shrieking and yelling, holding “conversations” with friends all the way at the other end of the hall…

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  151. @Known Fact
    Rap is more than 50 years old if you count the influence of Gil Scott-Heron (who also did plenty of listenable actual music)

    Rap is more than 50 years old if you count the influence of Gil Scott-Heron (who also did plenty of listenable actual music)

    Linton Kwesi Johnson and other Jamaican dub poets were active from the 1970’s and appear to have had a lot of influence on rap and hip hop just as the Mississippi Delta and Chicago bluesmen influenced popular performers like Mick Jagger and Eric Clapton.

    Johnson’s poems first appeared in the journal Race Today, which published his first collection of poetry, Voices of the Living and the Dead, in 1974.

    The musical accompaniment in this track is obviously reggae-based.

    Mutabaruka (Allen Hope) also started composing in the early 70’s.

  152. ‘My high school was around 10% black. Most of the blacks were bused in from a different part of the county. When the black buses arrived, the noise level in the school would increase 2-3x. It was astounding. Shrieking and yelling, holding “conversations” with friends all the way at the other end of the hall…’

    You should see (or hear) what the real McCoy, 100% black school is like.

    I once had occasion to make a delivery to a Black Junior High School in South Central Los Angeles back in the eighties. It was an older, three or four story building that took up about a third of a city block.

    I had to park two blocks away, and as I approached the building, there was this continuous, unvarying roaring. It was incredible.

    People who want to fantasize blacks are like everyone else can only do so by determinedly ignoring all the evidence that’s right in front of them. No they’re not, they never will be, and it’s simply futile to pretend otherwise.

  153. @Anonymous
    Yang's explanation is a too Machiavellian. Imo this all began with the Trayvon Martin case, which touched a nerve in the black community. The increased sensitization resulted in Ferguson, Freddie Gray and the various other police-brutality uproars. Increased bourgeois white anxiety about black issues opened the door for an endless parade of black grifters and charlatans to try and sell the Angry (but not too angry) Black Man schtick to guilty white liberals. Ta-Nehisi Coates is the exemplar here.

    This is a great angle for black journalists and intellectual types: there's a lot of demand for it, blacks have an exclusive claim to this material and because you occupy an unimpeachable moral high ground you are beyond polite criticism and can be sloppy in a way you couldn't be covering, say, East Asian politics. Enter Jamelle Bouie, Jelani Cobb, Jamil Smith, Adam Serwer and probably a dozen others I can't recall at the moment.

    This "1619 Project" is the brainchild of Nikole Hannah-Jones, the racial beat-writer for the NYT, whom I've been peripherally following for awhile now. She refers to herself on Twitter as "The Beyoncé of Journalism," as far as I can tell unironically. She is obsessed with blackness to a degree that sets her apart even from her co-grifters like Bouie and Cobb; it's very nearly all she talks about. Something about her always struck me as a little off, and I was enlightened to learn that her mother is white and that she grew up in Iowa. The armchair psychologist in me says that, grift aside, she overdoes black schtick because she feels insecure about her rather marginal blackness. Christopher Hitchens once made the point that nationalism is often strongest on the periphery (Hitler was Austrian, Napoleon was Corsican etc) and I think you could list her as an example of this phenomenon.

    Jones is, I've noticed, also more party-line than her coevals. Cobb, for example, recently wrote a piece somewhat chastising the black community for its continued embrace of R. Kelly after the incriminating videotape had been released; I can't imagine Jones ever writing that piece. She also seems politically more radical than the rest of her lot; she has made a lot of disparaging remarks about Asian-American activists in NYC (in relation to the SHSAT issue), and she's also tweeted out occasional support for the Palestinians, which is something that most establishment black journalists will NEVER do (even indirectly, such as in defending Ilhan Omar when Republicans were attacking her for anti-Semitism).

    With regards to Hispanics, I think the plan is to cut them into any black entitlement, such as reparations; I've already heard several people say that this should be the case.

    I was enlightened to learn that her mother is white and that she grew up in Iowa. The armchair psychologist in me says that, grift aside, she overdoes black schtick because she feels insecure about her rather marginal blackness.

    Similar to Obama and the failed QB Colin Kaperdink – both approx 1/2 black but raised by whites. They seem stuck between the white and black worlds and choose the black world. But they don’t really know that much about the black world so they overcompensate once they get there.

    I suspect there are lots of 1/2 black, 1/2 white types that choose to identify with their white side, but we don’t hear much about them because they act like whites – get jobs, go about their business, don’t shriek all day about white, white, whitedy, white.

  154. @Sam Haysom
    If you are trying to predict politics based on how big a wigger someone was at fourteen you aren’t going succeed very well.

    Have I struck a raw nerve?

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
    No I played way too much AAU basketball against bitchy acting blacks trying to cheap shot me because they couldn’t stop me off a screen to be a wigger.

    Also even if I had been a wigger you would hardly have been hitting a nerve. It was just a lazy observation. Most suburban white kids who aren’t good at sports have a wigger phase.
    , @Dissident
    http://esq.h-cdn.co/assets/15/34/768x1092/gallery-1439844171-esq0804covtx-trump-donald.jpg
  155. @Lot
    Have I struck a raw nerve?

    https://thehiphopista.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/wigga.jpg

    No I played way too much AAU basketball against bitchy acting blacks trying to cheap shot me because they couldn’t stop me off a screen to be a wigger.

    Also even if I had been a wigger you would hardly have been hitting a nerve. It was just a lazy observation. Most suburban white kids who aren’t good at sports have a wigger phase.

  156. @Lot
    Have I struck a raw nerve?

    https://thehiphopista.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/wigga.jpg

  157. @Paleo Liberal
    I think Emerson was whiter than Joey Ramones.
    Steve seems to think the opposite.

    Actually, there wasn’t that big a difference between working class Jews and working class Italians. For a variety of reasons, such as when different groups immigrated, what neighborhoods they wound up in, and whom they hated, Germans and Irish often intermarried, but neither group married Italians or Jews. The Irish absolutely despised Jews. Nat Hentoff claimed he was regularly beaten up by Irish kids growing up who called him a “Christ killer”.

    The Italians and Jews lived in close proximity, and often intermarried. Howard Stern is half Italian, for example, and acts like a Ramone.

    Not to mention the close ties between Jewish and Italian gangsters. German and Irish gangs hated Jews, and during WW II the US used Jewish and Italian gangsters to help wipe out the German gangsters.


    I lived in a few ethnic neighborhoods in NYC. An Italian neighborhood in the Bronx had a few PRs and a few Jews. Only one German and no Irish. An Irish neighborhood was very close to a Jewish area, but they didn’t mix. I lived in a neighborhood in Brooklyn for a while that until recently was about half Italian and half Jewish. The groups were all next door to each other. The most famous guy from that neighborhood was The Hulk, as Italian as you can get.

    Great reply, Paleo. Thanks. I am of Italian descent, and was born in a very Jewish part of New York during the early 80s. People often mistake me as Jewish. It made a lot of sense what you wrote.

    • Replies: @Paleo Liberal
    People have been mistaking my family for Jewish for several generations. I do have some German bankers who came to America before the Revolution as ancestors, but as far as I know they were not Jewish. My grandfather was one of the best known banking lawyers in the US, because his mother’s family got him set up in the baking business.

    I don’t know what life in NY is like now. In the old days, if people thought you were Jewish, the girls one would attract would be mostly Jews or Asians.
  158. @SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle
    Great reply, Paleo. Thanks. I am of Italian descent, and was born in a very Jewish part of New York during the early 80s. People often mistake me as Jewish. It made a lot of sense what you wrote.

    People have been mistaking my family for Jewish for several generations. I do have some German bankers who came to America before the Revolution as ancestors, but as far as I know they were not Jewish. My grandfather was one of the best known banking lawyers in the US, because his mother’s family got him set up in the baking business.

    I don’t know what life in NY is like now. In the old days, if people thought you were Jewish, the girls one would attract would be mostly Jews or Asians.

  159. The tribe makes up 2.5% of America, but what are there numbers in the music industry? It’s seems to me the tribe makes up more then 50% of the music industries executives, promoters, managers etc., so who exactly was ripping off the Black artist? I think the movie “Straight Outta Compton” might have a thought on that.

  160. @Paleo Liberal
    I think Emerson was whiter than Joey Ramones.
    Steve seems to think the opposite.

    Actually, there wasn’t that big a difference between working class Jews and working class Italians. For a variety of reasons, such as when different groups immigrated, what neighborhoods they wound up in, and whom they hated, Germans and Irish often intermarried, but neither group married Italians or Jews. The Irish absolutely despised Jews. Nat Hentoff claimed he was regularly beaten up by Irish kids growing up who called him a “Christ killer”.

    The Italians and Jews lived in close proximity, and often intermarried. Howard Stern is half Italian, for example, and acts like a Ramone.

    Not to mention the close ties between Jewish and Italian gangsters. German and Irish gangs hated Jews, and during WW II the US used Jewish and Italian gangsters to help wipe out the German gangsters.


    I lived in a few ethnic neighborhoods in NYC. An Italian neighborhood in the Bronx had a few PRs and a few Jews. Only one German and no Irish. An Irish neighborhood was very close to a Jewish area, but they didn’t mix. I lived in a neighborhood in Brooklyn for a while that until recently was about half Italian and half Jewish. The groups were all next door to each other. The most famous guy from that neighborhood was The Hulk, as Italian as you can get.

    Very interesting comments Paleo and SIMPLE. I also grew-up in New York City, my family pretty-secular and non-observant, though strongly identified Jews.

    My mother grew-up in an area of the Bronx that, in addition to being heavily Jewish, was also heavily Irish. My mother recalls living in some degree of fear of the Irish youth, whom she recalls as being rather tough and generally hostile toward the Jews of the neighborhood. My mother, who was blessed with vividly red hair, also claims that she was often mistaken for being Irish.

    (FWIW, my late father had an interest in Ireland and visited it at least once in his life.)

    The Italians and Jews lived in close proximity, and often intermarried.

    My understanding, which would seem consistent with my experience, is that Italians have always been one of the most friendly of all peoples to Jews. I am surely not the first to have observed a fair amount of similarity and overlap in temperament, personality, culture and values, between Italians and Jews. A certain warmth, candidness, and brashness are specific traits that I think of being common to both groups. The emphasis on family life and its place within the culture could perhaps be added to the list.

    (I would place Howard Stern and organized crime gangsters, both of which you cited, among examples of the worst manifestations/aspects of the aforementioned traits and characteristics.)

    As a Jew, I feel a special sense of gratitude to the Italian people for their kindness toward Jews during the Nazi genocide. From what I have heard, even Mussolini had no personal animus toward Jews and only reluctantly went along with Hitler’s demands to turn-over Jews.

    As for intermarriage with Jews, I would not be surprised if at one time, Italians topped the list of groups that Jews have married into. (I believe that place has since been taken by Asians.) My family knew and was close to at least several Jewish-Italian couples/families. (Within my own family, I can think of at least one cousin who married an Italian woman.) Don’t forget New York Governor Fiorello LaGuardia. Might he have been the most famous product of a Jewish-Italian marriage?

    I lived in a neighborhood in Brooklyn for a while that until recently was about half Italian and half Jewish. The groups were all next door to each other. The most famous guy from that neighborhood was The Hulk, as Italian as you can get.

    You do realize, I hope, that with that last bit of information, you left no doubt as to which neighborhood you were referring-to. I would name it but since most people reading likely would not know and are unlikely to go the trouble of looking it up, I think it best to refrain.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    My father-in-law's description of the neighborhood on the Near North Side of Chicago where Cabrini-Green was eventually built:

    When it was a poor immigrant Swede neighborhood way back when, the problems were binge drinking, illegitimacy, and incest. Then it became a poor Italian neighborhood. All the old problems vanished but the new problem was knives.

    , @SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle
    I have sensed this affinity as well, Dissident. I am circumcised, which also supports this.

    Q: How you do identify an Italian suit? A: Because a Jew is wearing it, etc.

    I believe the Book of Jubilees (10:35-36) provides the link between the Jews and the Italians in the Madai ancestry of Japheth living among Shem's (Semite) peoples in the days immediately proceeding Noah.

    "According to the Book of Jubilees, Madai had married a daughter of Shem and preferred to live among Shem's descendents, rather than dwell in Japheth's allotted inheritance beyond the Black Sea; so he begged his brothers-in-law, Elam, Asshur and Arphaxad until he finally received from them the land that was named after him, Media."

    These Madai are an early version of the Iranian/Italian, is this correct? Is there a continuation between the land of Media and Hollywood/New York?
    , @SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle
    Forget to also add among famous Jewish/Italian marriages are Talia Shire and Jack Schwartzman, which ties into the Media/Hollywood thread. Consider Slyvester Stallone, too.
  161. @Dissident
    Very interesting comments Paleo and SIMPLE. I also grew-up in New York City, my family pretty-secular and non-observant, though strongly identified Jews.

    My mother grew-up in an area of the Bronx that, in addition to being heavily Jewish, was also heavily Irish. My mother recalls living in some degree of fear of the Irish youth, whom she recalls as being rather tough and generally hostile toward the Jews of the neighborhood. My mother, who was blessed with vividly red hair, also claims that she was often mistaken for being Irish.

    (FWIW, my late father had an interest in Ireland and visited it at least once in his life.)


    The Italians and Jews lived in close proximity, and often intermarried.
     
    My understanding, which would seem consistent with my experience, is that Italians have always been one of the most friendly of all peoples to Jews. I am surely not the first to have observed a fair amount of similarity and overlap in temperament, personality, culture and values, between Italians and Jews. A certain warmth, candidness, and brashness are specific traits that I think of being common to both groups. The emphasis on family life and its place within the culture could perhaps be added to the list.

    (I would place Howard Stern and organized crime gangsters, both of which you cited, among examples of the worst manifestations/aspects of the aforementioned traits and characteristics.)

    As a Jew, I feel a special sense of gratitude to the Italian people for their kindness toward Jews during the Nazi genocide. From what I have heard, even Mussolini had no personal animus toward Jews and only reluctantly went along with Hitler's demands to turn-over Jews.

    As for intermarriage with Jews, I would not be surprised if at one time, Italians topped the list of groups that Jews have married into. (I believe that place has since been taken by Asians.) My family knew and was close to at least several Jewish-Italian couples/families. (Within my own family, I can think of at least one cousin who married an Italian woman.) Don't forget New York Governor Fiorello LaGuardia. Might he have been the most famous product of a Jewish-Italian marriage?


    I lived in a neighborhood in Brooklyn for a while that until recently was about half Italian and half Jewish. The groups were all next door to each other. The most famous guy from that neighborhood was The Hulk, as Italian as you can get.
     
    You do realize, I hope, that with that last bit of information, you left no doubt as to which neighborhood you were referring-to. I would name it but since most people reading likely would not know and are unlikely to go the trouble of looking it up, I think it best to refrain.

    My father-in-law’s description of the neighborhood on the Near North Side of Chicago where Cabrini-Green was eventually built:

    When it was a poor immigrant Swede neighborhood way back when, the problems were binge drinking, illegitimacy, and incest. Then it became a poor Italian neighborhood. All the old problems vanished but the new problem was knives.

  162. @Dissident
    Very interesting comments Paleo and SIMPLE. I also grew-up in New York City, my family pretty-secular and non-observant, though strongly identified Jews.

    My mother grew-up in an area of the Bronx that, in addition to being heavily Jewish, was also heavily Irish. My mother recalls living in some degree of fear of the Irish youth, whom she recalls as being rather tough and generally hostile toward the Jews of the neighborhood. My mother, who was blessed with vividly red hair, also claims that she was often mistaken for being Irish.

    (FWIW, my late father had an interest in Ireland and visited it at least once in his life.)


    The Italians and Jews lived in close proximity, and often intermarried.
     
    My understanding, which would seem consistent with my experience, is that Italians have always been one of the most friendly of all peoples to Jews. I am surely not the first to have observed a fair amount of similarity and overlap in temperament, personality, culture and values, between Italians and Jews. A certain warmth, candidness, and brashness are specific traits that I think of being common to both groups. The emphasis on family life and its place within the culture could perhaps be added to the list.

    (I would place Howard Stern and organized crime gangsters, both of which you cited, among examples of the worst manifestations/aspects of the aforementioned traits and characteristics.)

    As a Jew, I feel a special sense of gratitude to the Italian people for their kindness toward Jews during the Nazi genocide. From what I have heard, even Mussolini had no personal animus toward Jews and only reluctantly went along with Hitler's demands to turn-over Jews.

    As for intermarriage with Jews, I would not be surprised if at one time, Italians topped the list of groups that Jews have married into. (I believe that place has since been taken by Asians.) My family knew and was close to at least several Jewish-Italian couples/families. (Within my own family, I can think of at least one cousin who married an Italian woman.) Don't forget New York Governor Fiorello LaGuardia. Might he have been the most famous product of a Jewish-Italian marriage?


    I lived in a neighborhood in Brooklyn for a while that until recently was about half Italian and half Jewish. The groups were all next door to each other. The most famous guy from that neighborhood was The Hulk, as Italian as you can get.
     
    You do realize, I hope, that with that last bit of information, you left no doubt as to which neighborhood you were referring-to. I would name it but since most people reading likely would not know and are unlikely to go the trouble of looking it up, I think it best to refrain.

    I have sensed this affinity as well, Dissident. I am circumcised, which also supports this.

    Q: How you do identify an Italian suit? A: Because a Jew is wearing it, etc.

    I believe the Book of Jubilees (10:35-36) provides the link between the Jews and the Italians in the Madai ancestry of Japheth living among Shem’s (Semite) peoples in the days immediately proceeding Noah.

    “According to the Book of Jubilees, Madai had married a daughter of Shem and preferred to live among Shem’s descendents, rather than dwell in Japheth’s allotted inheritance beyond the Black Sea; so he begged his brothers-in-law, Elam, Asshur and Arphaxad until he finally received from them the land that was named after him, Media.”

    These Madai are an early version of the Iranian/Italian, is this correct? Is there a continuation between the land of Media and Hollywood/New York?

  163. @Dissident
    Very interesting comments Paleo and SIMPLE. I also grew-up in New York City, my family pretty-secular and non-observant, though strongly identified Jews.

    My mother grew-up in an area of the Bronx that, in addition to being heavily Jewish, was also heavily Irish. My mother recalls living in some degree of fear of the Irish youth, whom she recalls as being rather tough and generally hostile toward the Jews of the neighborhood. My mother, who was blessed with vividly red hair, also claims that she was often mistaken for being Irish.

    (FWIW, my late father had an interest in Ireland and visited it at least once in his life.)


    The Italians and Jews lived in close proximity, and often intermarried.
     
    My understanding, which would seem consistent with my experience, is that Italians have always been one of the most friendly of all peoples to Jews. I am surely not the first to have observed a fair amount of similarity and overlap in temperament, personality, culture and values, between Italians and Jews. A certain warmth, candidness, and brashness are specific traits that I think of being common to both groups. The emphasis on family life and its place within the culture could perhaps be added to the list.

    (I would place Howard Stern and organized crime gangsters, both of which you cited, among examples of the worst manifestations/aspects of the aforementioned traits and characteristics.)

    As a Jew, I feel a special sense of gratitude to the Italian people for their kindness toward Jews during the Nazi genocide. From what I have heard, even Mussolini had no personal animus toward Jews and only reluctantly went along with Hitler's demands to turn-over Jews.

    As for intermarriage with Jews, I would not be surprised if at one time, Italians topped the list of groups that Jews have married into. (I believe that place has since been taken by Asians.) My family knew and was close to at least several Jewish-Italian couples/families. (Within my own family, I can think of at least one cousin who married an Italian woman.) Don't forget New York Governor Fiorello LaGuardia. Might he have been the most famous product of a Jewish-Italian marriage?


    I lived in a neighborhood in Brooklyn for a while that until recently was about half Italian and half Jewish. The groups were all next door to each other. The most famous guy from that neighborhood was The Hulk, as Italian as you can get.
     
    You do realize, I hope, that with that last bit of information, you left no doubt as to which neighborhood you were referring-to. I would name it but since most people reading likely would not know and are unlikely to go the trouble of looking it up, I think it best to refrain.

    Forget to also add among famous Jewish/Italian marriages are Talia Shire and Jack Schwartzman, which ties into the Media/Hollywood thread. Consider Slyvester Stallone, too.

  164. I was going to give another example of Hispanic music melding well with white popular music..until I checked Wikipedia.

    Ry Cooder sometimes plays like he’s LA barrio homeboy (“Chavez Ravine”) but then I see he grew up in Santa Monica and had an Italian-American mama.

Comments are closed.

Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS