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Where Are All the Jewish Rock Stars?
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If you type into Google “rock stars” you get the following list, which isn’t terribly definitive (why are the Rolling Stones #1 on the list and Keith Richards #4 but Mick Jagger isn’t on the list?), but also isn’t terribly unreasonable (e.g., David Bowie is the #5 rock star … Yeah, I can see that. I could imagine getting into a big argument about who ought to be above Bowie and who ought to be below Bowie, but that Bowie is #5 all time sounds like what a consensus would agree is about right.)

The Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, The Beatles, Keith Richards, David Bowie, Jimi Hendrix. Kurt Cobain. Guns N’ Roses. Mötley Crüe. The Who, Bob Dylan, Eric Clapton, Ozzy Osbourne, Jim Morrison, Led Zeppelin, Elvis Presley, Bono, John Lennon, Axl Rose, Iggy Pop. Robert Plant, Alice Cooper, Nirvana, Chuck Berry, Elton John, Morrissey, Bruce Springsteen, Dave Grohl, Janis Joplin, Liam Gallagher, Gene Simmons, Brian Jones, Lemmy, Buddy Holly, John Fogerty, Nick Cave, Freddie Mercury, Frank Zappa, Elliott Smith [I never heard of this guy before but he’s a pretty typical sad rock star], Joe Strummer [Joe was 1/8th Jewish but it’s more interesting he was 1/4th Armenian whose father was born in Lucknow in what’s now Pakistan like a Kipling hero], Debbie Harry, Aerosmith, Billy Corgan, Sting, Ringo Starr, Billy Idol, Madonna, David Byrne, Slash, Kiss, Tina Turner

That’s not a perfect list, but it’s not a bad list either.

Three years ago, iSteve commenter Peterike asserted:

Bob [Dylan] is also the ultimate sui generis rock star, and the best Jewish rock star by a country mile. Other than Dylan and a few other notable exceptions, Jews have been surprisingly under-represented among the great rock stars, considering their success in all other entertainment fields. Though like everywhere else, they are often over-praised by the Jewish rock press, witness the generally terrible Randy Newman as an example, and the good but over-rated Leonard Cohen as another.

On Google’s Top 50 list, I count Dylan and Gene Simmons of Kiss as wholly Jewish, plus several part Jews: e.g., Joe Strummer of The Clash was 1/8th Jewish. I was surprised to find that Iggy Pop and Bruce Springsteen aren’t, as far as we know, part Jewish.

Jewish rock critics tend to be sentimental about the half-Jewish Marc Bolan of T. Rex who died in a car crash at age 29. But, then again, “Bang the Gong (Get It On)” is awesome.

I’m sure I’m missing a few people, but, still, rock stars are remarkably not very Jewish. I would have thought 20% of rock stars are Jewish, but I was off by a little under an order of magnitude.

Update: I’d add that rock ‘n’ roll was a sort of heartland rebellion (e.g., Elvis was from Memphis, Chuck Berry from St. Louis) against the long domination of the heights of American popular music by New Yorkers, typically Jews who’d help bring the supreme craftsmanship of Austrian and German composers to America.

For example, listen to how good Sam Cooke’s songwriting was 60 years ago. He was a black guy born in Mississippi and raised in Chicago but held himself to Manhattan standards of songwriting.

But America was full of musicians who, while they weren’t as skillful as the Viennese, had their own wonderful tradition derived especially from the Celtic Fringe, which Brits, especially Liverpudlians, could identify with.

My impression is that in recent decades, leadership of pop composing seems to have drifted back to Continental Europeans such as Max Martin.

 
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  1. Their managers and record company execs are the more heavily Jewish ones. Hey, give those guys some credit for bringing you your tunes.

    #1 Brian Epstein, manager of the Beatles:

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Not crazy to think an ethnic group specializing in finance and commerce for the past 1000 years would have more than its fair share of business roles in the rock business.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @MGB

    , @anon
    @Buzz Mohawk


    Their managers and record company execs are the more heavily Jewish ones. Hey, give those guys some credit for bringing you your tunes.
     
    Lots of rap music managers, executives, and producers were Jewish as well. And lots of Jewish rap DJs, instrumentalists, and even rappers going back to the 80s.
    , @Anon
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I remember Keith Richards saying a few decades ago how he knew Alan Klein ripped off The Rolling Stones, but Richards said he looked back on it as the cost of an education. IOW no hard feelings.

    , @Richard B
    @Buzz Mohawk


    Hey, give those guys some credit for bringing you your tunes.
     
    More like:
    Give those guys credit for making it impossible to get your tunes any other way.
  2. I would wager that Adam Levine of Maroon 5 is by far the most popular Jewish rock star. The term “rock” defined rather loosely of course.

    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    When I saw Adam Levine on a Superbowl half time show with his buff tattooed body it made me less proud to be Jewish. I realize that's the way rock stars (yeah I know his music is pop not rock) are supposed to look these days. Still traditionally Jewish men were more bookish or nerdish looking than hyper masculine. I liked Woody Allen being representative of Jewish masculinity, not Adam Levine.

    Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...

    , @Paul Jolliffe
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    Levine may be popular, but Donald Fagen of Steely Dan is more accomplished.

  3. Anon[126] • Disclaimer says:

    If Jews have higher IQs on average then is it not likely that those with musical talent would be disproportionately drawn to more highbrow genres like classical music and jazz? They certainly had an oversized impact on 20th century classical music (Glass, Reich, Berlin, Bernstein, Gershwin, Schoenberg) as well as producing many of the biggest non-black jazz stars (Goodman, Getz, Konitz, Rich).

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @Anon

    Where's the money in that, genius?

  4. Yeah, you’re missing some, though “star” is maybe an iffy factor. Peter Green, members from the J Geils Band, Blue Oyster Cult. Dylan’s various co-musicians tended to have a Jewish tint. Mike Bloomfield, Al Kooper, Robbie Robertson. And don’t forget Geddy Lee, who has kind of a funny voice and I forgot about him until checking out this useful source:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_rock_musicians

    …damn that page is really stretching the truth. (Do Jews do that? Stretch the truth?) Danny Elfman? A rock musician?

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    @onetwothree

    Geddy Lee is more niche than we Rush fans like to admit. I once met a woman who had sat next to Geddy at a dinner party - some mutual friend. She had no idea who he was, and when he told her he was a musician she replied “well, I hope that’s working out for you.”

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    , @alaska3636
    @onetwothree

    Danny Elfman was the founder of Oingo Boingo. They were a sort of artsy pop group but isn't all music since Buddy Holly basically rock and roll?

    , @SunBakedSuburb
    @onetwothree

    "And don't forget ..."

    Warren Zevon. His father, a sketchy guy, a bit of a small-time gangster -- was Jewish. I can't recall from a biography of Zevon that I'd read whether his mother was Jewish. Something about her being a cocktail waitress his father met in a Chicago nightclub. But the Zevon book rests in my LA storage locker and that's so far away. Anyway, Zevon was an ace lyricist, up there with Dylan, Townshend, Peart, Keenan.

    , @Dave Pinsen
    @onetwothree

    Didn’t know Susanna Hoffs was Jewish. She still looks good in her 60s.

    https://twitter.com/kevin10919728/status/1543660056163614720?s=21&t=SUJwpCzE8y6arVWGSoygdA

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @DCThrowback

  5. Randy Newman may indeed be “generally terrible.” All I remember is his earliest albums, which had some excellent things, among which is the incomparable “Political Science.”

    • Replies: @Wade Hampton
    @Tono Bungay

    Randy Newman is wholly wonderful, but he is a balladeer like Dylan. Neither are rockers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGs2iLoDUYE

    Replies: @Curle, @Sorel McRae

    , @WJ
    @Tono Bungay

    Randy Neuman is generally terrible. His music should have been beamed into Noriega's hideout back in 89 except it might be classified as a war crime.

  6. Drake and Bruno Mars are both part Jewish, so at least 10% of the top 20 most listened to artists on Spotify are Jews.

    KISS has 2x as many listens as Bob Dylan. I haven’t checked but I’d guess among those under 30, say, the ratio is higher. Bob Dylan doesn’t hold up at all. “I Was Made For Loving You,” on the other hand, does.

    • Replies: @diva
    @jason y

    Drake and Bruno Mars are not rock stars; neither is Madonna.

    , @Bardon Kaldlan
    @jason y

    Bruno Mars does a great job of pretending to be black. Still that "Uptown Funk" was a very amusing video.
    There was a

    Jewish guy in the video,a Mark Something. I seem to recall his sister(?) was famous for something.

  7. “David Lee Roth lights the menorah…”

    • Replies: @Mr. Grey
    @Giant Duck

    David Lee Roth was definitely a big rock star at one time, bigger than some on that list. (Iggy Pop is great, but he was never mainstream, at least not until later on when he sold his music for TV commercials.)

  8. Is being a rock star, success in an entertainment field?

    • LOL: Dr. Rock
  9. I’ve noticed the same underrepresentation of Jews in engineering in my 50 years in the engineering biz.

    I’ve known a few, of course, but they seemed more interested in the steady income than burning with passion to build stuff.

    The Israeli arms industry proves there’s no lack of ability but engineers are usually employees and you don’t get rich working for someone else.

    There are riches to be had as a rock star but the odds of making it to the top are very small. It’s a bad career bet for a young aspirant.

    Besides, rock is hedonism and that’s not generally a Jewish vice.

    • Agree: Russ
    • Replies: @Eric Novak
    @Somsel

    Former Polaroid engineer and multimillionaire rockstar founder of Boston (as well as Scholtz Engineering) would agree with your penultimate sentence. YouTube has a great mini-documentary produced by a Boston network news station about Tom and his history with the city of Boston, including interviews with Tom, who still has a huge smile on his face 40 years later, when recounting the day he submitted his resignation to Polaroid.

    , @AndrewR
    @Somsel

    What???

    https://www.google.com/search?q=tel+aviv+gayest+city&oq=tel+aviv+gayest&aqs=chrome.0.0i457i512j69i57j0i390l4.5651j0j4&client=ms-android-lge-rev2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

    , @Lank98
    @Somsel

    What branch of engineering were you in? While there maybe a dearth of jews in civil engineering,jews appear to be fairly represented in other areas such as electrical and computer,for instance around 15% of the ieee medal of honor is jewish and while randomly browsing the ieee award categories on Wikipedia I discovered that jews were substantially overrepresented in the radar category.
    Just have a look at the NAE members pages and you will see a similar pattern;jews appear to be highly represented in EE&CE categories.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_Medal_of_Honor
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_Dennis_J._Picard_Medal_for_Radar_Technologies_and_Applications
    http://www.nae.edu/19579/19581/166166/166807/Electronics
    http://www.nae.edu/19579/19581/166166/166841/ComputerScience

  10. SFG says:

    HBD. I could come up with some theory about how you need raw masculinity but a lot of the arts are down to fashion and chance. I’m not saying talent doesn’t exist-it most assuredly does-but who’s number 1 and who’s number 100 has a big path-dependent random component.

    • Replies: @SFG
    @SFG

    OK, so if I had to guess, I’d say in the second half of the 20th century when rock was huge, kids liked acts they could fantasize about being, and Jews’ divergence from the Western Europe ideal limited their ability to take jobs primarily depending on charisma. You can see this whole ‘but we’re not really American’ insecurity through a lot of the stuff Steve talks about.

    Of course, there aren’t a lot of Jewish rappers either (other than the Beastie Boys.)

    (Which was why the Marxists decided to blow up that average with their critical theories and such, I guess. Interestingly, I was flipping through the critical race theory red book and I realized most of the names were not Jewish, though they certainly built in the earlier cultural Marxists. There’s probably a story there, though I am not sure what it is.)

    Replies: @ginger bread man, @Pixo

  11. @Buzz Mohawk
    Their managers and record company execs are the more heavily Jewish ones. Hey, give those guys some credit for bringing you your tunes.

    #1 Brian Epstein, manager of the Beatles:


    https://i2-prod.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article6292472.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/zzdti74229.jpg

    Replies: @SFG, @anon, @Anon, @Richard B

    Not crazy to think an ethnic group specializing in finance and commerce for the past 1000 years would have more than its fair share of business roles in the rock business.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @SFG


    Rather than offering financial advice and maximizing his clients' income, as a business manager normally would, Allan Klein set up what he called "buy/sell agreements" where a company that Klein owned became an intermediary between his client and the record label, owning the rights to the music, manufacturing the records, selling them to the record label, and paying royalties and cash advances to the client. Although Klein greatly increased his clients' incomes, he also enriched himself, sometimes without his clients' knowledge. (The Rolling Stones' $1.25 million advance from the Decca Records label in 1965, for example, was deposited into a company that Klein had established, and the fine print of the contract did not require Klein to release it for 20 years.) Klein's involvement with both the Beatles and Rolling Stones would lead to years of litigation and, specifically for the Rolling Stones, accusations from the group that Klein had withheld royalty payments, stolen the publishing rights to their songs, and neglected to pay their taxes for five years; this last had necessitated their French "exile" in 1971.
     

    In 1966, Don Arden and a squad of "minders" turned up at impresario Robert Stigwood's office to "teach him a lesson" for daring to discuss a change of management with Small Faces, which became one of the most notorious incidents from the 1960s British pop business. Arden reportedly threatened to throw Stigwood out of the window if he ever interfered with his business again.

    In 1979, investigative reporter Roger Cook used the dispute with Lynsey de Paul to probe into Arden's controversial management style on BBC Radio 4's Checkpoint programme. That proved to be a colourful encounter. "When you fight the champion you go 15 rounds, you've got to be prepared to go the whole way", Arden tells Cook. "I'll take you with one hand strapped up my arse. You're not a man, you're a creep." Arden threatened to break the neck of anyone who talked to Cook in his on-air interview.

    In 1986, Arden was arrested for kidnapping and torturing a Jet records accountant named Harshad Patel, whom Arden believed had been embezzling money. Arden's son, known legally as 'David Levy', appeared at the Old Bailey in 1986 for his role in the matter. The incident occurred at the offices at 35 Portland Place. Convicted, Levy spent several months in an open prison. Arden, tried separately on related charges, was acquitted.
     

    Replies: @Verymuchalive

    , @MGB
    @SFG

    That’s a book that needs to be written. All of the thieving rock star managers. I think it was Gene Simmons who told a story about a prospective management team talking in Hebrew about how they were going to ‘gut him like fish’, only to find out he understood.

    Replies: @Corn

  12. David Lee Roth?

    Beastie Boys (rappers, but still big pop musicians)?

    Also, check the song writers. Leiber and Stoller were huge hit writers for Elvis.

    Also, I think the growth of the Nashville-based music labels might have something to do with their being more known Jewish movie stars than pop musicians. Nashville was separate from Jewish-controlled Hollywood labels, and has largely fed Middle America’s need for country music. As it was outside the Jewish-controlled areas, it didn’t promote Jewish musicians as much. Many Jewish actors and comedians get promoted over goyim ones because the bosses at the studios and talent agencies are all Jewish and they want to help a fellow Jew out more, e.g. how Amy Schumer and Sarah Silverman’s careers managed to expand wildly beyond their audiences and talent.

    A great documentary might be about how Nashville managed to carve itself out as a major music hub when all other entertainment got concentrated solely in NYC/LA.

    • Replies: @peggy
    @R.G. Camara

    Joe Elliot lead singer of 80s band Def Lepard is jewish.

  13. Also Jewish-Neil Diamond, Herb Alpert of both the Tijuana Brass and A&M Records, the guy who discovered Dylan (forgot his name)and tons of songwriters in the old days.

    The Gershwins alone are worth more than 75% of the Rock Musicians in the world, combined, in my view.

    • Replies: @Boo Alcindor
    @Charlesz Martel

    Albert Hammond.

    , @ScarletNumber
    @Charlesz Martel

    We were talking about Alpert the other day and I mentioned that he was Jewish even though that fact wasn't commonly known. While I'm a fan and while he is in the R&RHOF as a Non-performer, I don't think he qualifies as a rock star per se.

  14. Alan Bermowitz (June 23, 1938 – July 16, 2016), known professionally as Alan Vega, was an American vocalist and visual artist, primarily known for his work with the electronic protopunk duo Suicide.

  15. Hmmm.

    Rockers + Jews?

    I gotta go with Blue Oyster Cult. Dylan is a Jew but not any kind of a rocker.

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
  16. I think there is one in Llyod Neck down the road from Comrade Derbyshire….but he goes to Epischopal services…..WERE’RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT…..!!!!!!!!

    • Replies: @War for Blair Mountain
    @War for Blair Mountain

    So who is it Steve?

    Answer:Dee Synder……

  17. Putz says:

    I give you Mike Bloomfield lead guitarist of the Paul Butterfield Band, Electric Flag, etc.; Al Kooper of the Blues Project, Blood Sweat and Tears (played organ on Dylan’s “Like a Rolling Stone”); Jerry (the Fish) Melton and two other members of the (awful) Country Joe and the Fish (“gimme an ‘F’!”); bassist and flutist Andy Kulberg, of the Blues Project and Seatrain; Billy Joel (duh).

    And, of course, Elvis was Jewish.

    • Replies: @Sorel McRae
    @Putz

    Billy Joel's anti-Catholic seduction anthem, "Only the Good Die Young":

    Come out Virginia, don't let me wait
    You Catholic girls start much too late
    Aw, but sooner or later, it comes down to fate
    I might as well be the one

    Well, they showed you a statue, told you to pray
    They built you a temple and locked you away
    Aw, but they never told you the price that you pay
    For things that you might have done

    Well, only the good die young
    That's what I said
    Only the good die young
    Only the good die young

    You might-a heard I run with a dangerous crowd
    We ain't too pretty, we ain't too proud
    We might be laughing a bit too loud
    Aw, but that never hurt no one

    So come on Virginia, show me a sign
    Send up a signal, I'll throw you the line
    The stained-glass curtain you're hiding behind
    Never lets in the sun

    [Chorus]

    You got a nice white dress
    And a party on your confirmation
    You got a brand new soul
    Mmm, and a cross of gold

    But Virginia
    They didn't give you quite enough information
    You didn't count on me
    When you were counting on your rosary

    They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
    Some say it's better, but I say it ain't
    I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
    The sinners are much more fun

    [Chorus]

    You said your mother told you
    "All that I could give you was a reputation"
    Aw, she never cared for me
    But did she ever say a prayer for me?
    Oh oh oh

    Come out, come out, come out Virginia, don't let me wait
    You Catholic girls start much too late
    But sooner or later it comes down to fate
    I might as well be the one

    [Outro]

    Replies: @BB753

    , @Ripple Earthdevil
    @Putz

    Barry Melton, not Jerry.

    Mickey Hart of the Grateful Dead and currently Dead & Company is a tribesman.

    So is half the membership of Phish, Mike Gordon and Jon Fishman.

    I remember some time ago coming across a book entitled Jews Who Rock.

  18. A Jewish musician friend from college is constantly surprising me with observations that this musician or that musician is Jewish. Jewish people seem to know this stuff either from reading about it in Jewish media, or from some sort of Jewdar.

  19. Billy Joel and Neil Diamond are two of the biggest Jewish rock stars I can think of. Billy Joel’s cousin was the president of Yeshiva University and Diamond even made a movie about being a Jewish rock star, ironically titled “The Jazz Singer” (yes, I know it was a remake, sort of, but still). There is also the half-Jewish Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits.

    I guess Carole King, Paul Simon and Carly Simon count as rock stars, sort of. Laura Nyro – who was the first big act signed by David Steffens – was at least partly Jewish.

    Among slightly more recent acts there is Ezra Koenig of Vampire Weekend, Adam Levine of Maroon 5 (and The Voice), and Nina Gordon of Veruca Salt.

    It seems a bit odd there aren’t more Jewish rock stars, considering it feels like Tin Pan Alley was entirely Jewish, as is a wildly disproportionate share of writers of Broadway musicals. Rock is more about the beat than the lyrics, and Jewish songwriters tend to focus more on the lyrics.

    • Agree: Meretricious, Unit472
    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @Wilkey

    * David Geffen, not David Steffens. F—-ing autocorrect.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    , @pirelli
    @Wilkey

    Lou Reed (Velvet Underground)
    Donald Fagen (Steely Dan)
    David Lee Roth (Van Halen)

    Plus as you mention:

    Paul Simon
    Billy Joel
    Neil Diamond
    Mark Knopfler

    I mean, those are all very heavy hitters. Top 100 (or at least members of top 100 bands) for sure. So when you add them to Dylan, Bolan, Simmons, and the others, the percentage doesn’t strike me as all that small.

    Plus if you count songwriters in addition to performers (like the guys who wrote Elvis’s hits), then the percentage would be a lot higher.

    And I’ll be darned, I’d always assumed Springsteen was Jewish.

    Replies: @Right_On, @Element59

    , @Thursday
    @Wilkey

    Geddy Lee

    , @Prester John
    @Wilkey

    I dunno. Are Joel and Diamond (let alone Nyro, King, and both Simons) strictly speaking "rock." performers? To me they are more pop than rock (maybe "soft rock"). Even though every one of them is talented "New York State of Mind", "Sweet Caroline", "It's Too Late" etc. are all nice songs--I like all three of them--but don't ring the ol' chimes the way Chuck Berry did with "Maybelline" and "Roll Over Beethoven" or the Stones did with "Satisfaction" and "Street Fighting Man."

    Then again, I guess it depends upon one's point of view.

    , @Unit472
    @Wilkey

    There maybe a definitional problem as what is rock and what is pop which could explain why Paul Simon was left off the rock list ( as were the Everly Brothers who were pretty big in their day). Dionne Warwick and Pet Clark certainly charted enough to be major singers but were they just the vocalists for Burt Bacharach and Tony Hatch who were the real talent? PP&M made a career out of covering Bob Dylan songs and were much better known than Dylan until Like a Rolling Stone. I'm also kind of curious as to why the Dave Clark Five wasn't on the rock list as they were bigger than the Rolling Stones and gave the Beatles a run for their money for airplay till they just closed up shop and retired and where/what are the Beach Boys if not one of the most famous and biggest selling bands of all time?

    , @Adam Smith
    @Wilkey

    Louise Post and Jim Shapiro (of Veruca Salt) are also Jewish.

  20. Dylan isn’t a “rock” star, he was a folk musician. Beatles and Bowie were pop musicians. Tina Turner? I’m guessing just because they noticed there wasn’t a whole lot of racial diversity on the list. And “Slash”? That one is just funny.

    • Agree: Verymuchalive
  21. Amazed that Madonna is not jewish.

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @michael droy


    Amazed that Madonna is not jewish.
     
    Not a popular Jewish female name. But the famous one, was.
    , @Dandy Wine
    @michael droy

    She’s all Italian, as are many of the top female pop stars of today like Lady Gaga and Ariana Grande. The only notable female Jewish pop stars of the last 20 years are P!nk and Doja Cat.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  22. Also Jewish-Neil Diamond, Herb Alpert of both the Tijuana Brass and A&M Records, the guy who discovered Dylan (forgot his name)and tons of songwriters in the old days.

    The Gershwins alone are worth more than 75% of the Rock Musicians in the world, combined, in my view. Not to mention Bernie Taupin as a lyricist.

  23. There’s Simon and Garfunkel, Howard Kaylan of the Turtles (Volman was half-Jewish), Neil Diamond, Mama Cass, Eric Bloom of BOC, Amy Winehouse, and, of course, Donald Fagen of Steely Dan. Fagen is my #1 Jewish rock star. Does Jerry Garcia count? He looked Jewish, and his parents named him after Jerome Kern.

    • Replies: @the one they call Desanex
    @the one they call Desanex

    I forgot one—Manfred Mann (the guy, not the group), born Manfred Sepse Lubowitz.

    , @Art Deco
    @the one they call Desanex

    Simon and Garfunkel is more folk-acoustic.

    Replies: @the one they call Desanex

    , @Anon
    @the one they call Desanex

    A Deadhead once informed me that Garcia was part Spanish via Cuba and part Irish. I believe Garcia's grandfather was some kind of big shot union activist back in the day. Don't know which is true since my Deadhead acquaintance had been a pretty hardcore San Francisco hippy.

    Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil

    , @bomag
    @the one they call Desanex

    Thanks.

    Agree on Donald Fagen. Expected him to be mentioned sooner.

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @the one they call Desanex

    I incubated this over a couple days and came to conclusion Donald Fagen is the only one ever true Jew Rock God. **

    ** According to Rick Beato he was always a jazz man and did rock early as a marketing maneuver. At Aja his authentic butterfly metamorphosis was complete.

    You cannot press any undo button on rock history however. The one authentic jew rock anthem:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dPRGfGmCmU

    Replies: @the one they call Desanex

    , @MEH 0910
    @the one they call Desanex

    https://open.spotify.com/album/5bpFfYgL1au22XwLG4KOnq

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_Steely_Dan

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  24. @Wilkey
    Billy Joel and Neil Diamond are two of the biggest Jewish rock stars I can think of. Billy Joel’s cousin was the president of Yeshiva University and Diamond even made a movie about being a Jewish rock star, ironically titled “The Jazz Singer” (yes, I know it was a remake, sort of, but still). There is also the half-Jewish Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits.

    I guess Carole King, Paul Simon and Carly Simon count as rock stars, sort of. Laura Nyro - who was the first big act signed by David Steffens - was at least partly Jewish.

    Among slightly more recent acts there is Ezra Koenig of Vampire Weekend, Adam Levine of Maroon 5 (and The Voice), and Nina Gordon of Veruca Salt.

    It seems a bit odd there aren’t more Jewish rock stars, considering it feels like Tin Pan Alley was entirely Jewish, as is a wildly disproportionate share of writers of Broadway musicals. Rock is more about the beat than the lyrics, and Jewish songwriters tend to focus more on the lyrics.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @pirelli, @Thursday, @Prester John, @Unit472, @Adam Smith

    * David Geffen, not David Steffens. F—-ing autocorrect.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Wilkey

    You have to kidding:

    Bob Dylan
    Neil Diamond
    David Lee Roth - Van Halen
    Ric Ocasik - The Cars
    Simon and Garfunkel
    The moronic Clash frontman
    David Draiman - Disturbed
    Geddy Lee - Rush
    Steven Alder - GnR
    Even Seinfeld - Biohazard (also a former porn star)
    Marty Friedman - Megadeth
    Dan Spietz, Scott Ion and Dan Lilker - Anthrax
    Daisy Berkowitz - Marilyn Manson
    Eric Bloom - BOC
    Robert Bourdon and Brad Delson - Linkin Park
    David Rashbaum - Bon Jovi
    Perry Ferrell - Jane's Addiction and creator of the massive globohomo music monstrosity known as Lollapallooza
    Hillel Slovak - RHCP's original guitarist - died of a heroin OD
    Dee Snyder and JJ French of Twisted Sister
    Traci Guns - LA Guns
    Max Weinberg - drummer for Bruce Springsteen
    Jay Weinberg - drummer for Slipknot and son of Max Weinberg (there's no such thing as jewish nepotism)
    Michael Portney - Dream Theater
    Stanley Bert Eisen and Chaim Witz of KISS
    All three members of The Beastie Boys
    Rick Rubin - one of the most sought after rock record producer's of the 80's and 90's.

    Ok I'm bored - but the premise is laughable false.

    I'm not even getting into the more mainstream pop because I don't care enough about it to know, but every one mentioned above achieved at least some long standing success as a rock star.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Amasius, @Matt Buckalew

  25. How about Leslie West (Leslie Abel Weinstein), Mountain:

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Neutral Observer

    When Howard Stern attempted to replace Joan Rivers as the FOX latenight talkshow host, he recruited Leslie West as his bandleader. Now I know why.

  26. Surprised Geddy Lee hasn’t been mentioned yet.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Coag

    I did. Master musician. His vocals are an acquired taste but gets props for properly enunciating Neil Peart's literary lyrics.

  27. @the one they call Desanex
    There’s Simon and Garfunkel, Howard Kaylan of the Turtles (Volman was half-Jewish), Neil Diamond, Mama Cass, Eric Bloom of BOC, Amy Winehouse, and, of course, Donald Fagen of Steely Dan. Fagen is my #1 Jewish rock star. Does Jerry Garcia count? He looked Jewish, and his parents named him after Jerome Kern.

    Replies: @the one they call Desanex, @Art Deco, @Anon, @bomag, @Emil Nikola Richard, @MEH 0910

    I forgot one—Manfred Mann (the guy, not the group), born Manfred Sepse Lubowitz.

  28. @Wilkey
    Billy Joel and Neil Diamond are two of the biggest Jewish rock stars I can think of. Billy Joel’s cousin was the president of Yeshiva University and Diamond even made a movie about being a Jewish rock star, ironically titled “The Jazz Singer” (yes, I know it was a remake, sort of, but still). There is also the half-Jewish Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits.

    I guess Carole King, Paul Simon and Carly Simon count as rock stars, sort of. Laura Nyro - who was the first big act signed by David Steffens - was at least partly Jewish.

    Among slightly more recent acts there is Ezra Koenig of Vampire Weekend, Adam Levine of Maroon 5 (and The Voice), and Nina Gordon of Veruca Salt.

    It seems a bit odd there aren’t more Jewish rock stars, considering it feels like Tin Pan Alley was entirely Jewish, as is a wildly disproportionate share of writers of Broadway musicals. Rock is more about the beat than the lyrics, and Jewish songwriters tend to focus more on the lyrics.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @pirelli, @Thursday, @Prester John, @Unit472, @Adam Smith

    Lou Reed (Velvet Underground)
    Donald Fagen (Steely Dan)
    David Lee Roth (Van Halen)

    Plus as you mention:

    Paul Simon
    Billy Joel
    Neil Diamond
    Mark Knopfler

    I mean, those are all very heavy hitters. Top 100 (or at least members of top 100 bands) for sure. So when you add them to Dylan, Bolan, Simmons, and the others, the percentage doesn’t strike me as all that small.

    Plus if you count songwriters in addition to performers (like the guys who wrote Elvis’s hits), then the percentage would be a lot higher.

    And I’ll be darned, I’d always assumed Springsteen was Jewish.

    • Replies: @Right_On
    @pirelli

    Hadn't realized Lou Reed was Jewish. Memorable, haunting lyrics in rock were always a crucial element to make me keep returning to a song, and Reed, Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen came close to deserving the label "poets".

    On Steve's “Bang the Gong (Get It On)” is awesome: here's Bolan performing on Top of the Pops. I remember the purple Rupert the Bear tee-shirt was popular in the UK.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQg6P-AEjW0&ab_channel=MUSICPG

    , @Element59
    @pirelli

    There's some difficulty here with objectively defining examples of "rock stars" in the context that Steve's probably thinking of.

    Many commenters here are offering up Neil Diamond, Billy Joel, Paul Simon, or maybe one member of a true "rock" band like David Lee Roth as undermining Steve's premise. But for the most part, I wouldn't consider Diamond, Joel, or Simon as classic "rock star" archetypes, they're more like soft rock, or pop-rock, or folk-rock singer/songwriters.

    Think of the the dozens of absolutely huge hard rock bands and solo rock stars over the decades and how few Jews there are among this massive lot compared to say the pop song writers, producers, and record label big wigs; The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, Metallica, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Nirvana, Queen, U2, AC/DC, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, The Eagles, The Doors, The Grateful Dead...heck even soft rock-pop acts like Fleetwood Mac and the Bee Gees were absolutely huge at their peaks...and almost all of them are Jewless Anglo-Saxons.

    Perhaps this ethnic pattern stems from a peculiar strain of hyper individualism and rugged autonomy that exists more among white, Anglo Saxon gentiles - a less group-oriented psychology that produces egocentric rebels and individualist social risk takers compared to the hyper ethnocentric collectivist strain that exists in the shrewd Ashkenazim psychology.

    If true, one could correctly predict that the authentic "rock star" persona and lifestyle would have very few Jews. The group psychological foundations that would produce this kind of rugged hyper individual rock star are just not that commonly found among Jews. This is probably why you get proportionately more "intellectual" folk rocker/song writer types produced among the Jews like a Dylan or a Simon than say the hard rocker, larger-than-life types like a Mick Jagger or a Ozzy Osbourne.

    Dylan and Simon wrote relatively complex lyrics and arrangements targeting social issues, or deep-seated anxieties about social structures (structures built by gentiles) and their music was motivated to undermine those. Whereas the Anglo hard rockers focused more on frustrated relationships and angsts of love and unleashing raw sexual desires - more motivated by raw innate desires that channeled into their music and attaining scores of hot women rather than crafting the complex oratories on dismantling injustices and social structures by the more goofy looking Jewish "rockers".

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous

  29. The two surviving Beatles married Jews. Paul twice I think.

    Always thought Billy Joel was Italian, but apparently 100% Jewish. George Michael half I think. Amy Winehouse of course. David Lee Roth.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_rock_musicians

  30. Not even Rivers Cuomo, the Harvard graduate born in Manhattan and raised in an ashram who was nicknamed “Weezer” as a child!

  31. There’s David Lee Roth.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    @OFWHAP


    There’s David Lee Roth.
     
    Roth had an uncle who was fairly big in the music business. I wonder if that's why the VanHalen brothers picked him as their singer. Rock is full of people who can't sing, but he really can't sing.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

  32. Geddy Lee of RUSH.

    • Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil
    @Muse

    Born Gary Lee Weinrib. Geddy is how his Yiddish-speaking grandmother pronounced Gary.

  33. SFG says:
    @SFG
    HBD. I could come up with some theory about how you need raw masculinity but a lot of the arts are down to fashion and chance. I’m not saying talent doesn’t exist-it most assuredly does-but who’s number 1 and who’s number 100 has a big path-dependent random component.

    Replies: @SFG

    OK, so if I had to guess, I’d say in the second half of the 20th century when rock was huge, kids liked acts they could fantasize about being, and Jews’ divergence from the Western Europe ideal limited their ability to take jobs primarily depending on charisma. You can see this whole ‘but we’re not really American’ insecurity through a lot of the stuff Steve talks about.

    Of course, there aren’t a lot of Jewish rappers either (other than the Beastie Boys.)

    (Which was why the Marxists decided to blow up that average with their critical theories and such, I guess. Interestingly, I was flipping through the critical race theory red book and I realized most of the names were not Jewish, though they certainly built in the earlier cultural Marxists. There’s probably a story there, though I am not sure what it is.)

    • Replies: @ginger bread man
    @SFG

    Drake is half Jewish and makes no secret of that. He is one of the best selling rappers of all time:

    https://youtu.be/BEyRg_T3ae8

    , @Pixo
    @SFG

    “ Of course, there aren’t a lot of Jewish rappers either (other than the Beastie Boys.)”

    They were the top white rap act for a decade, and then #2 for another long period after Eminem. There’s a half jewish Canadian mulatto rapper named Drake is probably in the top ten rappers of the past 10-15 years.

    “ Jews’ divergence from the Western Europe ideal limited their ability to take jobs primarily depending on charisma.”

    I don’t think that’s it, rock stars wear crazy makeup and clothing and tend to be short, skinny, and energetic.

  34. NC says:

    Obviously David Lee Roth. I would expect jews and italians are overrepresented among 80’s hair bands, because of the showbiz “make money and have fun” ethos of the genre and its roots in LA. It takes a contrarian and gloomy nordic type like Kurt Cobain to turn being the biggest rock star in the world into something profoundly depressing. There’s also the huge cultural and economic shift from the 80s to 90s as genx took over from later boomers. The America of the 90s was finally ready to listen to a mentally ill man sing about his guns and lithium prescription.

    • Replies: @John Milton’s Ghost
    @NC

    Nearly every hair band from the 80s had at least one Italian American in it. The Italians probably had sisters who taught their band mates how to do their hair.

    John Bon Jovi was Bonjiovi.
    Steven Tyler was Tallarico.
    And so on …

  35. Beastie Boys. Mix of rock and rap.

  36. How are Brian Wilson and Frankie Valli not on this list.?

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Goatweed


    How are Brian Wilson and Frankie Valli not on this list.?
     
    Were Wilson and Valli Jewish?
    , @J.Ross
    @Goatweed

    It took me a minute, sir, I didn't get it at first, but by considering your name, you win the thread with this comment.

  37. David Lee Roth lights the menorah.

  38. Very interesting, Steve. Now do a similar statistical analysis for classical music, please…

  39. David Lee Roth has to be the most “Rock Star” of any jewish rock star.

  40. If ‘Bang the Gong’ is awesome, ‘Spirit In The Sky’ by Norman Greenbaum (a Jewish gospel songwriter believe it or not) is awesomeness squared.

    Interesting story behind that song:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_in_the_Sky

    • Agree: Right_On, James Speaks
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @bws92082


    If ‘Bang the Gong’ is awesome, ‘Spirit In The Sky’ by Norman Greenbaum (a Jewish gospel songwriter believe it or not) is awesomeness squared.

     

    I won't disagree, but it is also cluelessness squared. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was innocently trying to ape the gospel tradition rather than to mock it. But it included the most un-Christian lyric imaginable:

    Never been a sinner, I never sinned...

    Bloody hell, that goes against the very core of the faith! I caught that as a slovenly junior high student, so why didn't everyone else? How poorly catechized were rockers? Again, I can forgive Greenbaum himself, but who was in the studio with him? Who published it? Was everybody stoned?

    Some gospel-rockers have adopted, and adapted, the song by rewriting the offending line.

    Replies: @Abe

    , @Satanic6Music6Industry6
    @bws92082

    I wonder if he ever ended up taking the advice of his own song ?

  41. Maybe this an effect where intelligence precludes rock’n’roll.

    Gene Simmons….

    “I….. wanna rock’n’roll aaaaalllll niiiiight…. and party all of the day…”

    Not really Maimonides-level stuff.

    There’s a lot of rock-o-philia on iSteve, but maybe Jews are too smart to rock?

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Chrisnonymous

    Another possibility is the IQ gap.

    If I remember, researchers have found that managers can't manage workers well if the IQ gap is too large. Maybe Jews can't make Scots-African-mash-up third-world music for dumb white people well.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  42. Simon and Garfunkel? Geddy Lee? Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley? Manfred Mann? David Lee Roth? Leslie West? Billy Joel? The Ramones?

  43. @Chrisnonymous
    Maybe this an effect where intelligence precludes rock'n'roll.

    Gene Simmons....

    "I..... wanna rock'n'roll aaaaalllll niiiiight.... and party all of the day..."

    Not really Maimonides-level stuff.

    There's a lot of rock-o-philia on iSteve, but maybe Jews are too smart to rock?

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    Another possibility is the IQ gap.

    If I remember, researchers have found that managers can’t manage workers well if the IQ gap is too large. Maybe Jews can’t make Scots-African-mash-up third-world music for dumb white people well.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Chrisnonymous

    Or maybe rock'n'roll isn't subversive enough. Maybe really subversive Jews go into porn or finance?

  44. Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson of Rush are both Jewish. Lifeson’s (a stage name… his real last name is Zivojinovic which translates in English to “son of life”) Serbian parents emigrated to Toronto from Yugoslavia. Lee’s (also a stage name… real name Gary Lee Weinrib) parents were Holocaust survivors from Poland.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Grand Marquis DeSade

    Lifeson, really? Is it through his mother? Zivojinovic is an extremely gentile name.

  45. Weird that nobody here has mentioned David Lee Roth yet. Of all the Jewish rockstars that people are gonna name, he certainly fits the American rockstar archetype better than any of them. I would also point to Geddy Lee, who, while very much NOT a stereotypical rockstar, is the frontman of an incredibly beloved legacy rock act. And for a more modern example, David Draiman from the hugely popular metal band Disturbed is extremely open and proud about his Jewishness. Or how about Joey Ramone, Lou Reed, Adam Duritz from Counting Crows, Perry Farrell (born Peretz Bernstein) from Jane’s Addiction, Lenny Kravitz (half-Jewish through his father, but I’m sure Jews will be glad to claim him), Eddie Money, and Dee Snider (Jewish father, but raised very Christian).

    Some other more minor figures off the top of my head would be Scott Ian (guitarist for Anthrax), Marty Friedman (long-time lead guitarist for Megadeth), Joey Kramer (drummer for Aerosmith), Robby Krieger (guitarist for The Doors), Chuck Schuldiner (pioneering death metal vocalist and guitarist) and Adam Lambert, the former American Idol contestant who briefly toured as the frontman for Queen.

    • Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil
    @James Hoffman

    Edward Joseph Mahoney aka Eddie Money was as Irish-Catholic as they come.

  46. Suzanna Huffs of the Bangles. Jewish Rock Star and smoking hot – an outlier twofer.

  47. @Chrisnonymous
    @Chrisnonymous

    Another possibility is the IQ gap.

    If I remember, researchers have found that managers can't manage workers well if the IQ gap is too large. Maybe Jews can't make Scots-African-mash-up third-world music for dumb white people well.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    Or maybe rock’n’roll isn’t subversive enough. Maybe really subversive Jews go into porn or finance?

  48. David Lee Roth
    Alice Cooper

    • Replies: @John Milton’s Ghost
    @Blodgie

    Alice Cooper comes from Pentecostal stock. He does have the nose though…

  49. Elvis was one-eighth Jewish, and simply “Jewish” as a matter of traditional Jewish law.

    • Replies: @JimDandy
    @I, Libertine

    Thanks, that's really interesting.


    Elvis’ maternal great-great-grandmother was a Jewish woman named Nancy Burdine.... The Presleys once lived in an apartment directly below the family of Rabbi Alfred Fruchter, the first principal of the Memphis Hebrew Academy. The rabbi’s son, Harold, said that Elvis actually served as the Fruchters’ “Shabbos goy,” a non-Jew who performs household tasks for observant Jews that are normally forbidden on the Jewish Sabbath.... Elvis put a Star of David on his mother's headstone.

  50. Never heard of Elliot smith? listen to his top songs, I’m telling ya! Your life will be the richer for it.

    • Replies: @pirelli
    @Spangel226

    Elliott Smith was one of the best songwriters of the 90s and early 2000s, which was a heyday for gloomy white dudes with acoustic guitars writing thoughtful and interesting tunes (think Jeff Tweedy, Jeff Buckley, Ben Gibbard, Ryan Adams, and Conor Oberst).

    His melodies and chord structures are complex and hauntingly beautiful. That said, his music is a bit of downer, to put it mildly. I listened to him all the time as a morose teenager in the mid-2000s, but I rarely listen to him anymore. There’s a reason Wes Anderson chose Elliott Smith as the music for Richie Tenenbaum’s attempted suicide scene. And of course there’s Elliott Smith’s incredibly depressing life story as well.

    Replies: @prosa123, @slumber_j, @Stan Adams

  51. Joe was 1/8th Jewish but it’s more interesting he was 1/4th Armenian whose father was born in Lucknow in what’s now Pakistan like a Kipling hero

    Strummer’s dad, Ronald Ralph Mellor, MBE worked with the railway company in India but later became a British diplomat, after India became independent. Like Kipling’s boy hero, Kim, he did have a connection with Lucknow, which Kipling had Kim refer to as Nucklao, in the local dialect.

    It’s still in India, several hundred miles from the border with Pakistan. Kipling had Kim attend a boarding school in Lucknow, modeled on the real life La Martinere boarding school in that town, which is where Strummer’s dad would likely have studied.

    Unlike in the colonies closer to home, where parents in West Africa or the Caribbean simply sent their children to the UK, the Brits set up a network of fancy boarding schools in India, and also in far away Australia and New Zealand for their officials’ children.

    • Thanks: J.Ross, epebble
    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @PiltdownMan

    "Brits set up a network of fancy boarding schools in India, and also in far away Australia and New Zealand for their officials’ children."

    I was in Melbourne and mentioned to a friend out there the Anglican private school Geelong Grammar, founded in the 1850s and whose alumni include Prince Charles and Rupert Murdoch.

    "Boris Johnson did a teaching assistant stint there in his gap year"

  52. Jews run the show. Anent your recent blurb on Brian Wilson’s birthday– after Wilson began to experience severe mental problems and his creativity ceased, father Murry sold the rights to his son’s music to Jerry Moss’s Irving Almo Music operation. Brian was mentally unable to consent (according to a later court ruling), which was the subject of a subsequent suit.

    Story has it that Abraham Somers, who negotiated the deal to transfer ownership and was the Beach Boys attorney at the time, was also on the Irving Music payroll, as a director.

    [BTW, Jerry Moss (who co-founded A&M records with Herb Alpert) was big in horse racing, and was Commissioner of the California Horse Racing Board. His wife was a board member of the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA. These people are everywhere, but often ‘behind the scenes’ and active in ways you don’t at first suspect.]

    Later, when Brian was in the process of ‘recovery’, his Jewish ‘doctor’ Gene Landy convinced patient Brian to let him be his manager, with song writing and royalty credits.

    Recently, the Beach Boys catalog was sold to another Irving, Irving Azloff. You can’t make this stuff up.

    • Replies: @Joe Paluka
    @xyzxy

    "These people are everywhere, but often ‘behind the scenes’ and active in ways you don’t at first suspect."

    This is one of the main reasons we are so &%$#ed up in the west.

  53. Dude! I was just rocking some Lee Aaron to Celebrate Canada Day — I can’t vouch for her adult lifestyle but Canada’s Metal Queen was born Jewish (Aaron is a stage name, I think she was born Karen Greening. She lacks the classic Jewish schnoz due to a teen-age auto accident).

    The only question is, which inane 80s vid to pick here — I like this one where the alpha male is in a prison cell but still gets to have a motorcycle

    Google also lists Lesley Gore — actually Lesley Sue Goldstein!

    • Replies: @Joe Paluka
    @Known Fact

    Never heard of Lee Aaron and I thought I knew Canadian rock stars as much as I know our own here in the states. When I think of a real rocking Canadian female rock singer of the 70's/80's, I think of this lady Darby Mills. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjC50QRAXfI

    Replies: @Known Fact

  54. The relevant Wikipedia entry lists 162 Jewish rockers, of which I (Jewish, mid-level rock nerd) recognized maybe 50. I’d probably recognize 500-1000 rockers by name overall, so this suggests the incidence at 5-10% once you get below the top 50.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_rock_musicians

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @UES guy

    Is Geddy Lee on that Wikipedia list of Jewish rockers? If he's not then it's time to take a hammer to your computer.

    Replies: @UES guy

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @UES guy

    Interesting list. I didn't realize Danny Elfman was Jewish. But they seem to have left out the Beastie Boys, though.

    Replies: @UES guy, @Mr. Anon

  55. David Lee Roth and the women from the Bangles were Jewish I think, I may be able to remember some more if I think about it, but yes, Jews are underrepresented compared to a lot of other fields. I guess they were more inclined to going off to Broadway or Hollywood.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Joe H


    the women from the Bangles were Jewish I think
     
    The Peterson sisters are not Jewish, but Susanna Hoffs certainly is. Paleo Retiree posted an old clip of Susanna, but she is still going strong at 63.
    , @JimDandy
    @Joe H

    David Lee Roth, yeah. And Alice Cooper... Robbie Robertson was born to a Jewish gangster and a Canadian squaw. Steely Dan. Paul Simon AND Garfunkel. Geddy Lee. Adam Duritz. Lenny Kravitz. Perry Ferrell is a totally indie alt rock rebel, dude, as well as a far-right Jewish Zionist named Peretz Bernstein. "White trash" Pink is a Jewess. Amy Winehouse, of course. The Christian arena-rock-anthemist, Norm Greenbaum was an Orthodox Jew. No, Iggy is not Jewish, but punk has always been heavy on the Jewish side--The Ramones, The Dictators, Lou Reed, Richard Hell, Sylvain Sylvain of The New York Dolls, Blondie's Chris Stein, fucking terrible late-wave Good Charlotte, Fall Out Boy, NOFX, Sleater-Kinney. Patti Smith yearned to become a Jew, but realized she wasn't really wanted there. Rap? Yeah, Beastie Boys, 3rd Bass, etc.--Josh Norek of Hip Hop Hoodíos stated that "before Eminem, pretty much the only white rappers were Jewish." And don't forget Drake, homie. Uh, Adam Levine? Even Harry Connick is Jewish. It ain't as evident as Hollywood, but Jews are very OVERrepresented in rock (and its cousins) in relation to their percentage of the population. A true rock and roll front man is a very alpha, goyish archetype, but that didn't stop them. I could go on and....heyyyyyyyyy, wait a minute, Steve--was this a goddamned troll? Ya got me!

  56. David Lee Roth is Jewish, right? And Huey Lewis?

  57. Lou Reed, most famous for Walk on the Wild Side but also wrote “Good Evening Mr. Waldheim”:

    Good evening Mr.Waldheim
    And Pontiff how are you?
    You have so much in common
    In the things you do

    And here comes Jesse Jackson
    He talks of Common Ground
    Does that Common Ground include me
    Or is it just a sound?

    A sound that shakes
    Oh Jesse, you must watch the sounds you make
    A sound that quakes
    There are fears that still reverberate

    Jesse you say Common Ground
    Does that include the PLO?
    What about people right here right now
    Who fought for you not so long ago?

    The words that flow so freely
    falling dancing from your lips
    I hope that you don’t cheapen them
    with a racist slip

    Oh Common Ground
    Is Common Ground a word or just a sound?
    Common Ground
    Remember those civil rights workers buried in the ground

    If I ran for President
    And once was a member of the Klan
    Wouldn’t you call me on it
    The way I call you on Farrakhan

    And Pontiff, pretty Pontiff
    Can anyone shake your hand?
    Or is it just that you like uniforms
    And someone kissing your hand

    Or is it true
    The Common Ground for me includes you too?
    Oh, oh, is it true
    The Common Ground for me includes you too?

    Good evening Mr.Waldheim
    Pontiff how are you?
    As you both stroll through the woods at night
    I’m thinking thoughts of you

    And Jesse you’re inside my thoughts
    As the rhythmic words subside
    My Common Ground invites you in
    Or do you prefer to wait outside

    Or is it true
    The Common Ground for me is without you
    Or is it true
    The Common Ground for me is without you
    Oh is it true
    There’s no Ground Common enough for me and you

    • Replies: @Sorel McRae
    @Sorel McRae

    For more ethnocentrist lyrics by Jewish rock stars, here's Bob Dylan's "Neighborhood Bully" (with a few comments):

    Well, the neighborhood bully, he’s just one man
    His enemies say he’s on their land
    They got him outnumbered about a million to one
    He got no place to escape to, no place to run
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    The neighborhood bully just lives to survive [no appetite for wealth, power, perversion, subversion. right.]
    He’s criticized and condemned for being alive [well, that just follows, doesn't it?]
    He’s not supposed to fight back, he’s supposed to have thick skin
    He’s supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land [for no reason whatsoever! (Sorry, couldn't resist)]
    He’s wandered the earth an exiled man
    Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn
    He’s always on trial for just being born
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
    Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
    Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad
    The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
    That he’ll live by the rules that the world makes for him
    ’Cause there’s a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
    And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    He got no allies to really speak of [Wow, just wow, the gratitude on this one!]
    What he gets he must pay for, he don’t get it out of love
    He buys obsolete weapons and he won’t be denied
    But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side [ditto]
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, he’s surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
    They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
    Now, they wouldn’t hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
    They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Every empire that’s enslaved him is gone
    Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon
    He’s made a garden of paradise in the desert sand
    In bed with nobody, under no one’s command
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
    No contract he signed was worth what it was written on
    He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
    Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    What’s anybody indebted to him for?
    Nothin’, they say. He just likes to cause war
    Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed
    They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    What has he done to wear so many scars?
    Does he change the course of rivers? Does he pollute the moon and stars?
    Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill
    Running out the clock, time standing still

    Neighborhood bully
    Copyright © 1983 by Special Rider Music

    Replies: @Wielgus

  58. David Lee Roth is Jewish and definitely a rock star by any definition.

    And nowadays he actually looks the part of both, which it pretty funny to watch. He’s like a little bald headed near-retirement dentist prancing around on stage.

  59. I was surprised to find that Iggy Pop and Bruce Springsteen aren’t,

    I don’t know anything about Iggy Pop, but a little about Springsteen, who is from the area where I grew up. Nothing about Springsteen would indicate that he has any Jewish blood. His background was blue collar (although perhaps not as blue collar as he makes himself out to be) and his appearance is a sort of generic European – a lot of Jews look like this but so do millions and millions of Europeans. Springsteen is 1/2 Italian and Jews and Italians can often pass for each other (lots of movie roles where Jews were cast as Italians or vice versa).

    Not coincidentally, Ashkenazi Jews are believed to be a mix population with a Middle Eastern male line and an Italian or Greek female line, likely founded by single Jewish men who settled in Rome. (These kind of Mestizo populations are common throughout the world – for example most Mexicans are Spanish in the male line and Indian in the female line).

    Interestingly, the Springsteens came to New Amsterdam in the 17th century, which makes him super-old stock on his father’s side. Unlike some of the New Amsterdam settlers such as the Vanderbilts, the Springsteens didn’t do very well – Bruce’s father was a bus driver.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    @Jack D


    Nothing about Springsteen would indicate that he has any Jewish blood.
     
    Springsteen looked somewhat Jewish when he was younger, but even more so now that he is older, I'd say.

    https://i.imgur.com/q3hW2XG.jpg

    Replies: @jejej, @Wilkey, @Hangnail Hans, @njguy73, @Mr. Anon

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    Interestingly, the Springsteens came to New Amsterdam in the 17th century...
     
    Vincent Youmans, who wrote "Tea for Two", is a descendant of the Springstead branch of the Springsteen clan. I haven't found the exact connection, but he and Bruce are distant cousins.

    Youmans and Irving Caesar were the Jimmy Van Heusen-and-Sammy Kahn of their day-- WASP composer, Jewish lyricist. Well, one of them-- there was also Isham Jones (well, Welsh) and Gus Kahn of "It Had to Be You", which Johnny Mercer called America's best pop song, and, a little later, Hoagy Carmichael and Frank Loesser.
    , @Flip
    @Jack D

    I remember being in a restaurant in Rome and thinking that everyone looked Jewish.

  60. I love Joe Strummer, but there’s no Clash without Mick Jones. They tried, under the influence of their (Jewish) manager: it was dismal.

    • Replies: @Roderick Spode
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Mick Jones was half Jewish (his mother was a Russian Jew)

  61. Eric Bloom and Buck Dharma (Donald Roeser) from Blue Oyster Cult are Jews. Buck is arguably the best rock guitarist of all time. They are still touring after how many years and how many albums? Nobody even knows.

    • Replies: @p4nc4k3s Pl34s3
    @p4nc4k3s Pl34s3

    My bad. Eric is the only Jewish member of BOC.

    , @Dnought
    @p4nc4k3s Pl34s3

    Dharma isn't even the best Jewish guitarist. That would be Mark Knopfler.

    Replies: @Rohirrimborn

  62. I’d assume it’s harder to take advantage of them. The jewish managers want rock stars they can really exploit.

  63. Joey Ramone was Jewish. A non-Jew could not write the lyrics he wrote. Just my opinion of course. He had Obsessive Compulsive Disorder in a high degree, poor fellow (not sure that had any bearing on his art, but who knows?).
    Blue Oyster Cult, a relatively obscure band, had a Jewish vocalist and at least one other Jewish member. The songs were written by two Jews who were not band performers. Again, you can spot the Jewishness instantly, but you can always say I’m prejudiced, though not negatively.
    Lou Reed, of course, was Jewish. This is another case where I couldn’t figure a non-Jew producing his kind of music and life choices (don’t ask me why). I am not a big fan, but his Velvet Underground phase was brilliant (due also to the contribution of non-Jew John Cale).
    If you thought that Iggy Pop or Bruce Springsteen were (even partly) Jewish then your Jewdar is completely off. Or perhaps you have no Jewdar and just go by the presence of “steen” or “berg” in a person’s last name.
    Here is an article with several names (it focuses on hard rock):
    https://www.ranker.com/list/headbanging-hebrews/music-lover

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    @Brás Cubas

    I wrote, about Blue Oyster Cult:


    at least one other Jewish member.
     
    Not sure where I got that from, and it's apparently not true, as others have pointed out. It seems Eric Bloom is the only Jewish member (but I was right about the two non-members who wrote the songs being Jewish).

    Replies: @the one they call Desanex

    , @Known Fact
    @Brás Cubas

    Keith Reid, Procol Harum's great lyricist, is Jewish. I believe he's pictured with the band on the Grand Hotel album cover and maybe others, rather than remaining anonymously behind the scenes

    , @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Brás Cubas

    "Joey Ramone was Jewish. A non-Jew could not write the lyrics he wrote."

    Actually Dee Dee wrote a lot of their best songs, created most of the cartoonish aesthetic, and was supposed to be the singer, but he kept blowing out his voice. Maybe Dee Dee was Jewish too, I don't know but I doubt it. I think his real name was Doug something. And of course they are nothing without Johnny's very goyish guitar. Joey and Dee Dee's lyrics wouldn't sound like much without the buzz-saw guitar.

    Replies: @Brás Cubas

    , @Curle
    @Brás Cubas

    “Blue Oyster Cult, a relatively obscure band”

    A quibble, but you must be below a certain age. For people upright and conscious in the late seventies, they were not obscure.

    Replies: @Che Guava

  64. You forgot Joey Ramone, Getty Lee, Lou Reed the following is from Wikipedia, “his father had changed his name from Rabinowitz to Reed. Reed said that although he was Jewish, his “real god was rock ‘n’ roll“. and David Lee Roth. Manfred Mann was popular in the 60’s (Manfred Sepse Lubowitz). The following is from Wikipedia. “Lubowitz was raised in a Lithuanian-Jewish family in Johannesburg, the son of David Lubowitz and Alma Cohen.” I think there might be more than you realize.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Thanks: kahein
    • Replies: @BB753
    @11B4P

    Americans mostly remember Lou Reed from his Velvet Underground days. But in Europe, in the 70's, he became a genuine rock god after releasing his studio LPs "Transformer", "Berlin" and his live album "Rock and Roll Animal". A bit like Bob Dylan, he was good at writing songs, not so much at performing them. Lou had not much of a singing voice and was a mediocre guitar player. Though Rock and Roll Animal remains to this day one the best live rock albums of all time, perhaps due to Steve Hunter's guitar solos.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

  65. Thanks for the shout out Steve!

    Mick Jones of The Clash is of course half Jewish. The best Jewish rocker other than Dylan is probably Lou Reed of The Velvet Underground fame. Great body of work and highly influential.

    Jewish managers who stole from their acts is a good topic for another day.

    • Replies: @Hangnail Hans
    @Peterike


    Jewish managers who stole from their acts is a good topic for another day.
     
    Shorter title: "Jewish managers"
    , @Anonymous
    @Peterike

    Strangely enough 'Mick Jones' - what a distinctly unjewish name! - the self styled Sandinista, (with a big house in Surrey), is the cousin of the up and coming UK Conservative MP and minister, Grant Shapps.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  66. @p4nc4k3s Pl34s3
    Eric Bloom and Buck Dharma (Donald Roeser) from Blue Oyster Cult are Jews. Buck is arguably the best rock guitarist of all time. They are still touring after how many years and how many albums? Nobody even knows.

    Replies: @p4nc4k3s Pl34s3, @Dnought

    My bad. Eric is the only Jewish member of BOC.

  67. @Wilkey
    @Wilkey

    * David Geffen, not David Steffens. F—-ing autocorrect.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    You have to kidding:

    Bob Dylan
    Neil Diamond
    David Lee Roth – Van Halen
    Ric Ocasik – The Cars
    Simon and Garfunkel
    The moronic Clash frontman
    David Draiman – Disturbed
    Geddy Lee – Rush
    Steven Alder – GnR
    Even Seinfeld – Biohazard (also a former porn star)
    Marty Friedman – Megadeth
    Dan Spietz, Scott Ion and Dan Lilker – Anthrax
    Daisy Berkowitz – Marilyn Manson
    Eric Bloom – BOC
    Robert Bourdon and Brad Delson – Linkin Park
    David Rashbaum – Bon Jovi
    Perry Ferrell – Jane’s Addiction and creator of the massive globohomo music monstrosity known as Lollapallooza
    Hillel Slovak – RHCP’s original guitarist – died of a heroin OD
    Dee Snyder and JJ French of Twisted Sister
    Traci Guns – LA Guns
    Max Weinberg – drummer for Bruce Springsteen
    Jay Weinberg – drummer for Slipknot and son of Max Weinberg (there’s no such thing as jewish nepotism)
    Michael Portney – Dream Theater
    Stanley Bert Eisen and Chaim Witz of KISS
    All three members of The Beastie Boys
    Rick Rubin – one of the most sought after rock record producer’s of the 80’s and 90’s.

    Ok I’m bored – but the premise is laughable false.

    I’m not even getting into the more mainstream pop because I don’t care enough about it to know, but every one mentioned above achieved at least some long standing success as a rock star.

    • Thanks: kahein
    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Mike Tre

    I'm sorry It should read "Steve has to be kidding."

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Amasius
    @Mike Tre

    Negative on Ric Ocasek.

    https://ethnicelebs.com/ric-ocasek

    (Thank god, you had me worried for a sec.)

    , @Matt Buckalew
    @Mike Tre

    This list reads a lot like Jewish contributions to sports. It’s not very impressive and I enjoy how much you clearly have a complex about it.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

  68. Agree with Steve’s general point here, but naturally trying to think of some exceptions and some omissions from this list. It seems Rock n’ Roll is done best by the Scots/Irish folk, on the whole.

    As for Jews, David Lee Roth was more or less the epitome of a rock star when I was a kid. Lou Reed and the Velvet Underground were rock stars.

    As for the list, no Kinks? To me that invalidates the list, but the term ‘rock star’ is a little undefined anyway. Is Chuck Berry a ‘rock star?’ Tina Turner? Madonna? Liam but not Noel Gallagher? I can see that leading to fisticuffs.

    AC/DC not on the list? Black Sabbath? Davos house band U2?

    The Grateful Dead, who greatest American band of all time?

    This isn’t a list of the best rock bands, obviously, but I do think we have to define our terms here.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Ghost of Bull Moose


    This isn’t a list of the best rock bands, obviously, but I do think we have to define our terms here.
     
    I would be comfortable using the list of inductees of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, although this might be overinclusive since Leonard Cohen is on the list. Art Garfunkel was inducted as a member of Simon & Garfunkel but I'm not sure if he is a rock star per se either.
  69. @Mike Tre
    @Wilkey

    You have to kidding:

    Bob Dylan
    Neil Diamond
    David Lee Roth - Van Halen
    Ric Ocasik - The Cars
    Simon and Garfunkel
    The moronic Clash frontman
    David Draiman - Disturbed
    Geddy Lee - Rush
    Steven Alder - GnR
    Even Seinfeld - Biohazard (also a former porn star)
    Marty Friedman - Megadeth
    Dan Spietz, Scott Ion and Dan Lilker - Anthrax
    Daisy Berkowitz - Marilyn Manson
    Eric Bloom - BOC
    Robert Bourdon and Brad Delson - Linkin Park
    David Rashbaum - Bon Jovi
    Perry Ferrell - Jane's Addiction and creator of the massive globohomo music monstrosity known as Lollapallooza
    Hillel Slovak - RHCP's original guitarist - died of a heroin OD
    Dee Snyder and JJ French of Twisted Sister
    Traci Guns - LA Guns
    Max Weinberg - drummer for Bruce Springsteen
    Jay Weinberg - drummer for Slipknot and son of Max Weinberg (there's no such thing as jewish nepotism)
    Michael Portney - Dream Theater
    Stanley Bert Eisen and Chaim Witz of KISS
    All three members of The Beastie Boys
    Rick Rubin - one of the most sought after rock record producer's of the 80's and 90's.

    Ok I'm bored - but the premise is laughable false.

    I'm not even getting into the more mainstream pop because I don't care enough about it to know, but every one mentioned above achieved at least some long standing success as a rock star.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Amasius, @Matt Buckalew

    I’m sorry It should read “Steve has to be kidding.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Mike Tre

    I guess he's just pointing out that Jews don't punch above their weight quite as much in this role as they do in other ones in entertainment. But yeah, even in this area they still do punch somewhat above their demographic weight and are certainly not underrepresented. So bit of a nothingburger of a post, really. But hey, it's a sleepy Sunday, so why not.

  70. Steve trying to cut into Anglin’s racket. Beneath him, but I love it!

    • Agree: kahein
  71. @SFG
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Not crazy to think an ethnic group specializing in finance and commerce for the past 1000 years would have more than its fair share of business roles in the rock business.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @MGB

    Rather than offering financial advice and maximizing his clients’ income, as a business manager normally would, Allan Klein set up what he called “buy/sell agreements” where a company that Klein owned became an intermediary between his client and the record label, owning the rights to the music, manufacturing the records, selling them to the record label, and paying royalties and cash advances to the client. Although Klein greatly increased his clients’ incomes, he also enriched himself, sometimes without his clients’ knowledge. (The Rolling Stones’ \$1.25 million advance from the Decca Records label in 1965, for example, was deposited into a company that Klein had established, and the fine print of the contract did not require Klein to release it for 20 years.) Klein’s involvement with both the Beatles and Rolling Stones would lead to years of litigation and, specifically for the Rolling Stones, accusations from the group that Klein had withheld royalty payments, stolen the publishing rights to their songs, and neglected to pay their taxes for five years; this last had necessitated their French “exile” in 1971.

    In 1966, Don Arden and a squad of “minders” turned up at impresario Robert Stigwood’s office to “teach him a lesson” for daring to discuss a change of management with Small Faces, which became one of the most notorious incidents from the 1960s British pop business. Arden reportedly threatened to throw Stigwood out of the window if he ever interfered with his business again.

    In 1979, investigative reporter Roger Cook used the dispute with Lynsey de Paul to probe into Arden’s controversial management style on BBC Radio 4’s Checkpoint programme. That proved to be a colourful encounter. “When you fight the champion you go 15 rounds, you’ve got to be prepared to go the whole way”, Arden tells Cook. “I’ll take you with one hand strapped up my arse. You’re not a man, you’re a creep.” Arden threatened to break the neck of anyone who talked to Cook in his on-air interview.

    In 1986, Arden was arrested for kidnapping and torturing a Jet records accountant named Harshad Patel, whom Arden believed had been embezzling money. Arden’s son, known legally as ‘David Levy’, appeared at the Old Bailey in 1986 for his role in the matter. The incident occurred at the offices at 35 Portland Place. Convicted, Levy spent several months in an open prison. Arden, tried separately on related charges, was acquitted.

    • Replies: @Verymuchalive
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Don Arden's daughter is Sharon Osbourne. Need one say more.
    You know that, of course, but some of our younger commenters probably don't.

  72. @Wilkey
    Billy Joel and Neil Diamond are two of the biggest Jewish rock stars I can think of. Billy Joel’s cousin was the president of Yeshiva University and Diamond even made a movie about being a Jewish rock star, ironically titled “The Jazz Singer” (yes, I know it was a remake, sort of, but still). There is also the half-Jewish Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits.

    I guess Carole King, Paul Simon and Carly Simon count as rock stars, sort of. Laura Nyro - who was the first big act signed by David Steffens - was at least partly Jewish.

    Among slightly more recent acts there is Ezra Koenig of Vampire Weekend, Adam Levine of Maroon 5 (and The Voice), and Nina Gordon of Veruca Salt.

    It seems a bit odd there aren’t more Jewish rock stars, considering it feels like Tin Pan Alley was entirely Jewish, as is a wildly disproportionate share of writers of Broadway musicals. Rock is more about the beat than the lyrics, and Jewish songwriters tend to focus more on the lyrics.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @pirelli, @Thursday, @Prester John, @Unit472, @Adam Smith

    Geddy Lee

  73. @Jack D

    I was surprised to find that Iggy Pop and Bruce Springsteen aren’t,
     
    I don't know anything about Iggy Pop, but a little about Springsteen, who is from the area where I grew up. Nothing about Springsteen would indicate that he has any Jewish blood. His background was blue collar (although perhaps not as blue collar as he makes himself out to be) and his appearance is a sort of generic European - a lot of Jews look like this but so do millions and millions of Europeans. Springsteen is 1/2 Italian and Jews and Italians can often pass for each other (lots of movie roles where Jews were cast as Italians or vice versa).

    Not coincidentally, Ashkenazi Jews are believed to be a mix population with a Middle Eastern male line and an Italian or Greek female line, likely founded by single Jewish men who settled in Rome. (These kind of Mestizo populations are common throughout the world - for example most Mexicans are Spanish in the male line and Indian in the female line).

    Interestingly, the Springsteens came to New Amsterdam in the 17th century, which makes him super-old stock on his father's side. Unlike some of the New Amsterdam settlers such as the Vanderbilts, the Springsteens didn't do very well - Bruce's father was a bus driver.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Reg Cæsar, @Flip

    Nothing about Springsteen would indicate that he has any Jewish blood.

    Springsteen looked somewhat Jewish when he was younger, but even more so now that he is older, I’d say.

    • Replies: @jejej
    @PiltdownMan

    Horns. We have horns. Fingers growing out of shoulder blades is Episcopalian.

    And once we're on the subject, will no one point out that Elvis Presley was (IS!) halachicly Jewish?

    Ah shondah!

    Also screw Elvis, despite his claims to the contrary I know his cousin (or at least someone who claims to be!) and Veird Al Yankelovitch is a memba of da twibe.

    Speaking of --- did Alec Baldwin not go through with interviewing Woody Allen? It was all over Google News when he announced it but I haven't seen anything since. Is that because the massive amounts of wailing and teeth gnashing successfully canceled it or because they had no effect in canceling it and don't want people to know that they can simply be ignored?

    , @Wilkey
    @PiltdownMan

    He looks like a lot of old white men of any different number of ethnicities.

    , @Hangnail Hans
    @PiltdownMan

    Everyone starts to look Jewish if they get old enough.

    , @njguy73
    @PiltdownMan

    To paraphrase Lenny Bruce, if you're from New Jersey, even if you're Gentile, you're Jewish. And if you live in Idaho, even if you're Jewish, you're goyishe.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    , @Mr. Anon
    @PiltdownMan


    Springsteen looked somewhat Jewish when he was younger, but even more so now that he is older, I’d say.
     
    That picture of Springsteen makes him look like Matthew McConaughey's older brother.

    Springsteen is a Dutch name, I believe. He's a gentile, as far as anyone knows.
  74. @PiltdownMan

    Joe was 1/8th Jewish but it’s more interesting he was 1/4th Armenian whose father was born in Lucknow in what’s now Pakistan like a Kipling hero
     
    Strummer's dad, Ronald Ralph Mellor, MBE worked with the railway company in India but later became a British diplomat, after India became independent. Like Kipling's boy hero, Kim, he did have a connection with Lucknow, which Kipling had Kim refer to as Nucklao, in the local dialect.

    It's still in India, several hundred miles from the border with Pakistan. Kipling had Kim attend a boarding school in Lucknow, modeled on the real life La Martinere boarding school in that town, which is where Strummer's dad would likely have studied.

    Unlike in the colonies closer to home, where parents in West Africa or the Caribbean simply sent their children to the UK, the Brits set up a network of fancy boarding schools in India, and also in far away Australia and New Zealand for their officials' children.

    https://www.edudwar.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/La-Martiniere-College-Lucknow.jpg

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    “Brits set up a network of fancy boarding schools in India, and also in far away Australia and New Zealand for their officials’ children.”

    I was in Melbourne and mentioned to a friend out there the Anglican private school Geelong Grammar, founded in the 1850s and whose alumni include Prince Charles and Rupert Murdoch.

    “Boris Johnson did a teaching assistant stint there in his gap year”

  75. It is interesting to contrast Rock music with the previous generation of jazz swing artists. Artie Shaw and Benny Goodman had the biggest bands and Jews dominated song writing.

  76. Anonymous[299] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike Tre
    @Mike Tre

    I'm sorry It should read "Steve has to be kidding."

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I guess he’s just pointing out that Jews don’t punch above their weight quite as much in this role as they do in other ones in entertainment. But yeah, even in this area they still do punch somewhat above their demographic weight and are certainly not underrepresented. So bit of a nothingburger of a post, really. But hey, it’s a sleepy Sunday, so why not.

  77. @p4nc4k3s Pl34s3
    Eric Bloom and Buck Dharma (Donald Roeser) from Blue Oyster Cult are Jews. Buck is arguably the best rock guitarist of all time. They are still touring after how many years and how many albums? Nobody even knows.

    Replies: @p4nc4k3s Pl34s3, @Dnought

    Dharma isn’t even the best Jewish guitarist. That would be Mark Knopfler.

    • Replies: @Rohirrimborn
    @Dnought

    Disagree. The best Jewish guitarist was Peter Green.

    Replies: @p38ace

  78. 10cc is (was?) 75% Jewish: Graham Gouldman, Lol Creme, Kevin Godley. Eric Stewart was the token goy. As a teenager, Gouldman wrote a helluva lot of hits for other Brits in the 1960s: “Bus Stop”, “Listen People”, “No Milk Today”, “For Your Love”, “Heart Full of Soul”, “Look Through Any Window”. As a temporary Mindbender, he wrote the B-side to “The Game of Love”.

    Note that these are in minor keys, which he picked up from is cantor, and made his work stick out.

    Marc Bolan of T Rex was half-Jewish. “Bang a Gong” may have come from that side, but “Ride a White Swan” is the most druidic hit song by anybody.

    And how can we forget Mama Cass?

    • Thanks: kahein
    • Replies: @Pixo
    @Reg Cæsar

    “ Note that these are in minor keys, which he picked up from is cantor, and made his work stick out.”

    Very interesting. I like those songs, and they do have a common feel. But the Hollies and Yardbirds were so talented they didn’t necessarily need good songwriting.

    , @Art Deco
    @Reg Cæsar

    And how can we forget Mama Cass?

    After 1968, her repertoire was popular, but not rock. Billy Joel also is not properly classified as a rock musician, though he was a Top 40 performer at his peak. Bob Dylan is more in the realm of folk-acoustic than rock.

    While we're at it, this is a stupid topic.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @Cool Shoes, @Reg Cæsar

  79. Everyone forgets Tommy Ramone, born Tomas Erdelyi in Budapest.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Ramone

    Truth be told, he was the manager, but they couldn’t find a drummer.

    • Replies: @Roderick Spode
    @Brutusale

    Joey Ramone (née Jeffrey Ross Hyman) was 100% kosher, God bless him

  80. Jack Black is half Jewish and is definitely a partial rocker. He starred in a movie called School of Rock.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=TExoc0MG4I4

    This franchise made a lot on the broadway remake and the TV adaptation.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @ginger bread man

    Jack's father converted to Judaism and his mother was already Jewish, so Jack could be described as Jewish without any qualification. For those who don't know, his mother Judith was a famous aerospace engineer. She didn't work for NASA per se but the companies she worked for did a lot of work with NASA.

  81. @Jack D

    I was surprised to find that Iggy Pop and Bruce Springsteen aren’t,
     
    I don't know anything about Iggy Pop, but a little about Springsteen, who is from the area where I grew up. Nothing about Springsteen would indicate that he has any Jewish blood. His background was blue collar (although perhaps not as blue collar as he makes himself out to be) and his appearance is a sort of generic European - a lot of Jews look like this but so do millions and millions of Europeans. Springsteen is 1/2 Italian and Jews and Italians can often pass for each other (lots of movie roles where Jews were cast as Italians or vice versa).

    Not coincidentally, Ashkenazi Jews are believed to be a mix population with a Middle Eastern male line and an Italian or Greek female line, likely founded by single Jewish men who settled in Rome. (These kind of Mestizo populations are common throughout the world - for example most Mexicans are Spanish in the male line and Indian in the female line).

    Interestingly, the Springsteens came to New Amsterdam in the 17th century, which makes him super-old stock on his father's side. Unlike some of the New Amsterdam settlers such as the Vanderbilts, the Springsteens didn't do very well - Bruce's father was a bus driver.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Reg Cæsar, @Flip

    Interestingly, the Springsteens came to New Amsterdam in the 17th century…

    Vincent Youmans, who wrote “Tea for Two”, is a descendant of the Springstead branch of the Springsteen clan. I haven’t found the exact connection, but he and Bruce are distant cousins.

    Youmans and Irving Caesar were the Jimmy Van Heusen-and-Sammy Kahn of their day– WASP composer, Jewish lyricist. Well, one of them– there was also Isham Jones (well, Welsh) and Gus Kahn of “It Had to Be You”, which Johnny Mercer called America’s best pop song, and, a little later, Hoagy Carmichael and Frank Loesser.

  82. @PiltdownMan
    @Jack D


    Nothing about Springsteen would indicate that he has any Jewish blood.
     
    Springsteen looked somewhat Jewish when he was younger, but even more so now that he is older, I'd say.

    https://i.imgur.com/q3hW2XG.jpg

    Replies: @jejej, @Wilkey, @Hangnail Hans, @njguy73, @Mr. Anon

    Horns. We have horns. Fingers growing out of shoulder blades is Episcopalian.

    And once we’re on the subject, will no one point out that Elvis Presley was (IS!) halachicly Jewish?

    Ah shondah!

    Also screw Elvis, despite his claims to the contrary I know his cousin (or at least someone who claims to be!) and Veird Al Yankelovitch is a memba of da twibe.

    Speaking of — did Alec Baldwin not go through with interviewing Woody Allen? It was all over Google News when he announced it but I haven’t seen anything since. Is that because the massive amounts of wailing and teeth gnashing successfully canceled it or because they had no effect in canceling it and don’t want people to know that they can simply be ignored?

  83. There is Peter Green (Greenbaum,) the first lead guitarist for Fleetwood Mac. I saw him over 25 years ago at a small club in Chicago. I cannot describe how good he was! Mick Bloomfield Of the Butterfield Blues band is another.Then there is Charlie Watts, all Jewish. Keith Richards is a quarter Jewish. I know some guys in Blue Oyster cult and Blondie is Jewish.
    Then there is Leonard Cohan. The story was that the Nobel prize committee want to award Leonard Cohan for literature. A good choice. They found out that Cohen had terminal cancer, so they gave it to Dylan as a default.

  84. The King of Rock is someone who is rumored to have been Jewish, partly Jewish, a Crypto Jew, a shabbos goy or Jewish by association. A perennial question the Jewish press loves tackling is Was Elvis Jewish?

    From the Jewish News:

    Elvis Presley was Jewish? A Grave Marker Locked Away for 4 Decades Confirms It
    By JN Contributor 07/14/2021

    Stored in the Graceland archives since 1977, Gladys Presley’s headstone features a Star of David that holds the family’s Jewish story.

    The large crate sat unopened in a 20,000-square-foot warehouse here for more than four decades, concealing a little-known fact about one of America’s cultural icons.

    https://thejewishnews.com/2021/07/14/elvis-presley-was-jewish-a-grave-marker-locked-away-for-4-decades-confirms-it/

  85. “What am I, chopped liver?”

    — Donnie Iris

    • Agree: Redneck farmer
  86. “Bob [Dylan] is also the ultimate sui generis rock star, and the best Jewish rock star by a country mile.”

    1. Bob Dylan was not a rock star; he was a folk and country star. His brief foray into rock (eg, Like a Rolling Stone) is now unlistenable. His 2 best albums, Blonde on Blonde and Nashville Skyline, did not deal with the rock genre. Me, I prefer Leonard Cohen in this category

    2. therefore the greatest Jewish rock star and musical innovator was Lou Reed (and people are still listening to Reed’s work, unlike Dylan)

    • Disagree: Hangnail Hans
  87. Mega-hottie Susannah Hoffs of The Bangles. Here’s a smokin’ live performance from her solo years. Her shy/bold, drunk-on-sex 20 second spoken intro is a mini-masterpiece in its own right.

    • Replies: @Ramk
    @Paleo Retiree

    Thanks for this Paleo. I had not seen it before. She exudes the "it factor". I look at her and other singers like Debra Harry and Pat Benatar and think what a great time to have grown-up.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Paleo Retiree

    The Bangles were the most talented female rock performers. And rather nice to look at too.

    A lesser known song by them, in the surf-rock style - Bitchin Summer:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIowZy-g4jc

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Paleo Retiree


    Mega-hottie Susannah Hoffs of The Bangles.
     
    They all were, three shiksas and Tamara's daughter.

    Did you know that Susannah recorded "Eternal Flame" in the nude? She was behind a screen for modesty. Some guy in the studio suggested doing this because it had worked for someone else.
  88. lol gentile concern-trolling. i mean, is this for real?

    besides the huge obvious ones, how about:

    warren zevon (half)
    donald fagen/walter becker
    perry farrell
    mike bloomfield/al kooper
    dave mustaine (jewish mother)
    david lee roth / sammy hagar
    fucking slash lol
    peter green (fleetwood mac)
    scott ian (anthrax)
    adam horovitz / adam yauch
    jonathan richman
    christ stein (blondie)
    tom verlaine (nee, miller), richard hell (nee, myers)
    the ramones / the dictators / the circle jerks
    gene ween
    dave berman, yo

    • Agree: slumber_j
    • Replies: @Bourne
    @kahein

    Sammy Hagar is British/Italian, not Jewish. David Lee Roth is Jewish, though.

    , @Anon
    @kahein

    LMFAO Jewish cope. Is this for real? Idk if Sammy Hagar is jewish btw, he might be one of those gentiles that people assume is Jewish but isn't actually. Jews trying to get away with Stolen Valor!

    No but seriously Jewish achievement in Rock and Roll is a lot lower than Jewish achievement in many other fields. no need to feel all that inferior, just feel a little bit inferior.

    Replies: @Matt Buckalew

  89. @SFG
    @SFG

    OK, so if I had to guess, I’d say in the second half of the 20th century when rock was huge, kids liked acts they could fantasize about being, and Jews’ divergence from the Western Europe ideal limited their ability to take jobs primarily depending on charisma. You can see this whole ‘but we’re not really American’ insecurity through a lot of the stuff Steve talks about.

    Of course, there aren’t a lot of Jewish rappers either (other than the Beastie Boys.)

    (Which was why the Marxists decided to blow up that average with their critical theories and such, I guess. Interestingly, I was flipping through the critical race theory red book and I realized most of the names were not Jewish, though they certainly built in the earlier cultural Marxists. There’s probably a story there, though I am not sure what it is.)

    Replies: @ginger bread man, @Pixo

    Drake is half Jewish and makes no secret of that. He is one of the best selling rappers of all time:

  90. Peter Green , the great guitarist of the original Fleetwood Mac, who wrote Black Magic Woman was Jewish. Born in London, his last name was originally Greenbaum.

  91. @UES guy
    The relevant Wikipedia entry lists 162 Jewish rockers, of which I (Jewish, mid-level rock nerd) recognized maybe 50. I'd probably recognize 500-1000 rockers by name overall, so this suggests the incidence at 5-10% once you get below the top 50.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_rock_musicians

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @Hypnotoad666

    Is Geddy Lee on that Wikipedia list of Jewish rockers? If he’s not then it’s time to take a hammer to your computer.

    • Replies: @UES guy
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Yep, Geddy is on the list. It occurred to me that I might search the comparable Wikipedia list of "rock musicians," to get an objective denominator for the Jewish percentage (of Wiki-level famous rockers), but they're broken out by too many subgenres. Maybe Steve wants to take a crack at it!

  92. Geddy Lee, Rush

    Neil Schons, Journey guitarist – looks the part. Great, underrated guitarist, BTW.

  93. @Wilkey
    Billy Joel and Neil Diamond are two of the biggest Jewish rock stars I can think of. Billy Joel’s cousin was the president of Yeshiva University and Diamond even made a movie about being a Jewish rock star, ironically titled “The Jazz Singer” (yes, I know it was a remake, sort of, but still). There is also the half-Jewish Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits.

    I guess Carole King, Paul Simon and Carly Simon count as rock stars, sort of. Laura Nyro - who was the first big act signed by David Steffens - was at least partly Jewish.

    Among slightly more recent acts there is Ezra Koenig of Vampire Weekend, Adam Levine of Maroon 5 (and The Voice), and Nina Gordon of Veruca Salt.

    It seems a bit odd there aren’t more Jewish rock stars, considering it feels like Tin Pan Alley was entirely Jewish, as is a wildly disproportionate share of writers of Broadway musicals. Rock is more about the beat than the lyrics, and Jewish songwriters tend to focus more on the lyrics.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @pirelli, @Thursday, @Prester John, @Unit472, @Adam Smith

    I dunno. Are Joel and Diamond (let alone Nyro, King, and both Simons) strictly speaking “rock.” performers? To me they are more pop than rock (maybe “soft rock”). Even though every one of them is talented “New York State of Mind”, “Sweet Caroline”, “It’s Too Late” etc. are all nice songs–I like all three of them–but don’t ring the ol’ chimes the way Chuck Berry did with “Maybelline” and “Roll Over Beethoven” or the Stones did with “Satisfaction” and “Street Fighting Man.”

    Then again, I guess it depends upon one’s point of view.

  94. Kinky Friedman is sort of Rock Adjacent.

  95. Guns N’ Roses’ accountant is Jewish. His name is Richard Feldstein and his son’s name is Jonah Hill Feldstein.

    Bruce Springsteen may not be Jewish but his drummer Max Weinberg is. Max also led the band for Conan O’Brien for many years, but I don’t know if he qualifies as a rock star per se. I’m not sure if Billy Joel qualifies either.

    Jon Bauman from Sha Na Na played a rock star but probably wasn’t one himself. Andrew Dice Clay was the first rock star/comedian.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @ScarletNumber


    I’m not sure if Billy Joel qualifies either.
     
    Really? Really???

    It’s a fair question what particular music qualifies as “rock,” which is why I thought Paul Simon might be questionable, but there’s no doubt that much of Billy Joel’s music is rock.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @MSP, @slumber_j

    , @Art Deco
    @ScarletNumber

    Andrew Dice Clay was the first rock star/comedian.

    Andrew Dice Clay is not a comedian.

  96. @UES guy
    The relevant Wikipedia entry lists 162 Jewish rockers, of which I (Jewish, mid-level rock nerd) recognized maybe 50. I'd probably recognize 500-1000 rockers by name overall, so this suggests the incidence at 5-10% once you get below the top 50.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_rock_musicians

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @Hypnotoad666

    Interesting list. I didn’t realize Danny Elfman was Jewish. But they seem to have left out the Beastie Boys, though.

    • Replies: @UES guy
    @Hypnotoad666

    Yeah, not sure where Wikipedia draws lines between genres. Beasties made the list for Jewish punk rock. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jews_in_punk_rock

    Hip hop at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_rappers

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Hypnotoad666

    I have read that Elfman was primarily just a frontman, and that the musical genius behind Oingo Boingo was the lead guitarist, Steve Bartek. I don't know if this is true or not. But given that Elfman is such an obnoxious weirdo, it's easy to believe the worst of him. Boingo was a good band. Elfman's film music is garbage.

  97. @ScarletNumber
    Guns N’ Roses' accountant is Jewish. His name is Richard Feldstein and his son's name is Jonah Hill Feldstein.

    Bruce Springsteen may not be Jewish but his drummer Max Weinberg is. Max also led the band for Conan O'Brien for many years, but I don't know if he qualifies as a rock star per se. I'm not sure if Billy Joel qualifies either.

    Jon Bauman from Sha Na Na played a rock star but probably wasn't one himself. Andrew Dice Clay was the first rock star/comedian.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Art Deco

    I’m not sure if Billy Joel qualifies either.

    Really? Really???

    It’s a fair question what particular music qualifies as “rock,” which is why I thought Paul Simon might be questionable, but there’s no doubt that much of Billy Joel’s music is rock.

    • Agree: Hangnail Hans
    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Wilkey

    I am a fan of Billy Joel and I have seen him in concert multiple times. He was inducted into the R&RHOF in 1999 with Paul McCartney, Del Shannon, and Bruce Springsteen. However, in my mind he is not a rock star while the other three are. He is more of a Dusty Springfield type, who was also a 1999 inductee.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @MSP
    @Wilkey

    Regarding Billy Joel: It’s still rock and roll to me.

    , @slumber_j
    @Wilkey

    I was just musing on this here on my so-far luggage-free (thanks to a transfer in Paris) vacation in Rome yesterday: Looking Glass, a Rutgers U. band who did "Brandy (You're a Fine Girl)" were almost certainly mostly Jewish. There are tons of these.

  98. Lots of Jewish rock stars. David lee Roth of Van Halen, teddy lee of rush, several people of blue oyster cult(where would we be without Godzilla?!), billy Joel, Neil diamond, the chief members of the Cars, Todd scholtz of Boston(who wrote all the songs and music), I think some members of the Doors, bob Dylan of course, if you would count that as rock, but then you’d have to add Leonard Cohen. Simon and Garfunkel, Beastie boys!! Hellloooo??

    • Replies: @Happy Tapir
    @Happy Tapir

    Steely Dan, Lou reed, mama cass Elliot, the bangles—I’m ashamed of myself for ommitting

  99. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    Agree with Steve's general point here, but naturally trying to think of some exceptions and some omissions from this list. It seems Rock n' Roll is done best by the Scots/Irish folk, on the whole.

    As for Jews, David Lee Roth was more or less the epitome of a rock star when I was a kid. Lou Reed and the Velvet Underground were rock stars.

    As for the list, no Kinks? To me that invalidates the list, but the term 'rock star' is a little undefined anyway. Is Chuck Berry a 'rock star?' Tina Turner? Madonna? Liam but not Noel Gallagher? I can see that leading to fisticuffs.

    AC/DC not on the list? Black Sabbath? Davos house band U2?

    The Grateful Dead, who greatest American band of all time?

    This isn't a list of the best rock bands, obviously, but I do think we have to define our terms here.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    This isn’t a list of the best rock bands, obviously, but I do think we have to define our terms here.

    I would be comfortable using the list of inductees of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, although this might be overinclusive since Leonard Cohen is on the list. Art Garfunkel was inducted as a member of Simon & Garfunkel but I’m not sure if he is a rock star per se either.

  100. @PiltdownMan
    @Jack D


    Nothing about Springsteen would indicate that he has any Jewish blood.
     
    Springsteen looked somewhat Jewish when he was younger, but even more so now that he is older, I'd say.

    https://i.imgur.com/q3hW2XG.jpg

    Replies: @jejej, @Wilkey, @Hangnail Hans, @njguy73, @Mr. Anon

    He looks like a lot of old white men of any different number of ethnicities.

  101. One word for you: Jefferson Airplane

    Is that more than one word, OK

  102. Marty Balin, Jorma Kaukonen, Spencer Dryden of the Airplane
    Micky Hart of the Dead
    Lou Reed
    Randy California
    Blue Oyster Cult

  103. @Wilkey
    @ScarletNumber


    I’m not sure if Billy Joel qualifies either.
     
    Really? Really???

    It’s a fair question what particular music qualifies as “rock,” which is why I thought Paul Simon might be questionable, but there’s no doubt that much of Billy Joel’s music is rock.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @MSP, @slumber_j

    I am a fan of Billy Joel and I have seen him in concert multiple times. He was inducted into the R&RHOF in 1999 with Paul McCartney, Del Shannon, and Bruce Springsteen. However, in my mind he is not a rock star while the other three are. He is more of a Dusty Springfield type, who was also a 1999 inductee.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @ScarletNumber

    I am a fan of Billy Joel and I have seen him in concert multiple times.

    He had one great song and some enjoyable ones. Great one is "Just the Way You Are".

    "Uptown Girl" is a fun variation on what Four Seasons did best.

    But his later stuff is just terrible, especially "We can start a fire".

    He really belongs in Broadway and is closer in sensibility to Streisand, also true of Neil Diamond, who was far more talented.

    PS. Gary Lewis, son of Jerry, was Jewish. How about Al Kooper of Blood, Sweat, and Tears?

    Mike Bloomfield learned to play the blues pretty good.

    I think the Dead and Phish(awful) had some Jewish guys.

    How many big homos are there in rock?

    Replies: @Whereismyhandle, @slumber_j, @Art Deco

  104. @Brás Cubas
    Joey Ramone was Jewish. A non-Jew could not write the lyrics he wrote. Just my opinion of course. He had Obsessive Compulsive Disorder in a high degree, poor fellow (not sure that had any bearing on his art, but who knows?).
    Blue Oyster Cult, a relatively obscure band, had a Jewish vocalist and at least one other Jewish member. The songs were written by two Jews who were not band performers. Again, you can spot the Jewishness instantly, but you can always say I'm prejudiced, though not negatively.
    Lou Reed, of course, was Jewish. This is another case where I couldn't figure a non-Jew producing his kind of music and life choices (don't ask me why). I am not a big fan, but his Velvet Underground phase was brilliant (due also to the contribution of non-Jew John Cale).
    If you thought that Iggy Pop or Bruce Springsteen were (even partly) Jewish then your Jewdar is completely off. Or perhaps you have no Jewdar and just go by the presence of "steen" or "berg" in a person's last name.
    Here is an article with several names (it focuses on hard rock):
    https://www.ranker.com/list/headbanging-hebrews/music-lover

    Replies: @Brás Cubas, @Known Fact, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Curle

    I wrote, about Blue Oyster Cult:

    at least one other Jewish member.

    Not sure where I got that from, and it’s apparently not true, as others have pointed out. It seems Eric Bloom is the only Jewish member (but I was right about the two non-members who wrote the songs being Jewish).

    • Replies: @the one they call Desanex
    @Brás Cubas

    I’m a big fan of early Blue Öyster Cult (their first three albums; also the recordings they made for the Elektra label in 1969-70 when they were known as “Stalk-Forrest Group,” finally released in 2001 as St. Cecilia: The Elektra Recordings). With all the comments here about BÖC, I appreciate that nobody brought up that stupid, retarded SNL sketch about “more cowbell.” Thanks, you guys.

  105. @Paleo Retiree
    Mega-hottie Susannah Hoffs of The Bangles. Here’s a smokin’ live performance from her solo years. Her shy/bold, drunk-on-sex 20 second spoken intro is a mini-masterpiece in its own right.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rOEf9vF1kc

    Replies: @Ramk, @Mr. Anon, @Reg Cæsar

    Thanks for this Paleo. I had not seen it before. She exudes the “it factor”. I look at her and other singers like Debra Harry and Pat Benatar and think what a great time to have grown-up.

  106. @Brás Cubas
    Joey Ramone was Jewish. A non-Jew could not write the lyrics he wrote. Just my opinion of course. He had Obsessive Compulsive Disorder in a high degree, poor fellow (not sure that had any bearing on his art, but who knows?).
    Blue Oyster Cult, a relatively obscure band, had a Jewish vocalist and at least one other Jewish member. The songs were written by two Jews who were not band performers. Again, you can spot the Jewishness instantly, but you can always say I'm prejudiced, though not negatively.
    Lou Reed, of course, was Jewish. This is another case where I couldn't figure a non-Jew producing his kind of music and life choices (don't ask me why). I am not a big fan, but his Velvet Underground phase was brilliant (due also to the contribution of non-Jew John Cale).
    If you thought that Iggy Pop or Bruce Springsteen were (even partly) Jewish then your Jewdar is completely off. Or perhaps you have no Jewdar and just go by the presence of "steen" or "berg" in a person's last name.
    Here is an article with several names (it focuses on hard rock):
    https://www.ranker.com/list/headbanging-hebrews/music-lover

    Replies: @Brás Cubas, @Known Fact, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Curle

    Keith Reid, Procol Harum’s great lyricist, is Jewish. I believe he’s pictured with the band on the Grand Hotel album cover and maybe others, rather than remaining anonymously behind the scenes

  107. What’s interesting is not the dearth of Jewish pop superstars but the question of why the didn’t play rocknroll outright. They tend to be electric folksingers rather than punkers for example, or show toonish novelty acts like Billy Joel randy Newman. Lou Reed is the big exception but his stuff tends to be more verbal and story oriented. Dire Straits too

  108. @Brás Cubas
    Joey Ramone was Jewish. A non-Jew could not write the lyrics he wrote. Just my opinion of course. He had Obsessive Compulsive Disorder in a high degree, poor fellow (not sure that had any bearing on his art, but who knows?).
    Blue Oyster Cult, a relatively obscure band, had a Jewish vocalist and at least one other Jewish member. The songs were written by two Jews who were not band performers. Again, you can spot the Jewishness instantly, but you can always say I'm prejudiced, though not negatively.
    Lou Reed, of course, was Jewish. This is another case where I couldn't figure a non-Jew producing his kind of music and life choices (don't ask me why). I am not a big fan, but his Velvet Underground phase was brilliant (due also to the contribution of non-Jew John Cale).
    If you thought that Iggy Pop or Bruce Springsteen were (even partly) Jewish then your Jewdar is completely off. Or perhaps you have no Jewdar and just go by the presence of "steen" or "berg" in a person's last name.
    Here is an article with several names (it focuses on hard rock):
    https://www.ranker.com/list/headbanging-hebrews/music-lover

    Replies: @Brás Cubas, @Known Fact, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Curle

    “Joey Ramone was Jewish. A non-Jew could not write the lyrics he wrote.”

    Actually Dee Dee wrote a lot of their best songs, created most of the cartoonish aesthetic, and was supposed to be the singer, but he kept blowing out his voice. Maybe Dee Dee was Jewish too, I don’t know but I doubt it. I think his real name was Doug something. And of course they are nothing without Johnny’s very goyish guitar. Joey and Dee Dee’s lyrics wouldn’t sound like much without the buzz-saw guitar.

    • Replies: @Brás Cubas
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Thanks a lot. So, what I wrote was bullshit (not an uncommon feature of my comments). I guess the reality of Jews is not what my prejudices tell me. Same about the reality of non-Jews, who can be boundlessly wonderful and creative. I keep criticizing this kind of prejudice about Jews (both negative and positive) in others, and low and behold I am doing the same thing. I was feeling good about myself this morning (it's morning in Brazil), but now I'm down a notch or two. I liked that.

  109. Anonymous[104] • Disclaimer says:

    Steely Dan very Jewish.

    Graham Parker Jewish?

    Paul Anka and Neil Sedaka.

    Leslie Gore Jewish?

    Recently, Amy Swinehouse was big before she croaked.

    One thing for sure, rock music got less witty and cerebral over the years.

    Brill Building and the like had Jewish composers who didn’t themselves become stars.

    • Replies: @Bourne
    @Anonymous

    Paul Anka is Lebanese, not Jewish.

    , @Art Deco
    @Anonymous

    Lesley Gore had seven hit singles over a four year period and made a modest living touring for decades. She had no children and never had a problem with liquor or drugs, nor any known history of psychiatric hospitalizations. Her estate at the time of her death was worth less than $100,000. Her father was a capable businessman, but his lawyers evidently did not know how to negotiate with record labels.

  110. The Jews prefer to be managers of rock stars so that they can steal all of their money. This has happened to almost all rock stars, and it’s almost always their Jew management. Almost every time.

  111. @PiltdownMan
    @Jack D


    Nothing about Springsteen would indicate that he has any Jewish blood.
     
    Springsteen looked somewhat Jewish when he was younger, but even more so now that he is older, I'd say.

    https://i.imgur.com/q3hW2XG.jpg

    Replies: @jejej, @Wilkey, @Hangnail Hans, @njguy73, @Mr. Anon

    Everyone starts to look Jewish if they get old enough.

    • LOL: PiltdownMan
  112. @Peterike
    Thanks for the shout out Steve!

    Mick Jones of The Clash is of course half Jewish. The best Jewish rocker other than Dylan is probably Lou Reed of The Velvet Underground fame. Great body of work and highly influential.

    Jewish managers who stole from their acts is a good topic for another day.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @Anonymous

    Jewish managers who stole from their acts is a good topic for another day.

    Shorter title: “Jewish managers”

    • LOL: Peterike
  113. Steve showing a little bit of music snobbery here, as if David Lee Roth wasn’t one of the biggest rock stars of all time. Van Halen and Diamond Dave were not really worth any acknowledgement or discussion for the guys into new wave and punk, which was clearly Steve’s orientation during the great music explosion from 1950 to 2000.

    anybody like Geddy Lee is well out of their purview since actually popular hard rock and metal bands that sell 30 million albums or more aren’t worth any notice to these guys. strangely, their interest in the best selling, most popular music seems to end in the mid 70s, so that they can go on and on forever about the Beatles and the Stones (but rarely about Zeppelin, Sabbath, Floyd, Purple, Boston, Aerosmith, noses turned up at that stuff), but as soon as the biggest stadium bands in history start showing up (AC/DC, Metallica, Van Halen, Def Leppard) they check out of the discussion and start talking about The Clash, Talking Heads, and The Cars.

    it’s possible David Draiman is one of the most well known currently active guys (father was an actual rabbi) but anything like Disturbed is on the Robert Christgau permanent do not listen list. Perry Ferrell was probably the most well known during the grunge era. Bob Geldolf most well known promoter during the Live Aid era, Mark Knopfler most well known player during that era.

    • Agree: Mike Tre
  114. Anonymous[104] • Disclaimer says:
    @ScarletNumber
    @Wilkey

    I am a fan of Billy Joel and I have seen him in concert multiple times. He was inducted into the R&RHOF in 1999 with Paul McCartney, Del Shannon, and Bruce Springsteen. However, in my mind he is not a rock star while the other three are. He is more of a Dusty Springfield type, who was also a 1999 inductee.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I am a fan of Billy Joel and I have seen him in concert multiple times.

    He had one great song and some enjoyable ones. Great one is “Just the Way You Are”.

    “Uptown Girl” is a fun variation on what Four Seasons did best.

    But his later stuff is just terrible, especially “We can start a fire”.

    He really belongs in Broadway and is closer in sensibility to Streisand, also true of Neil Diamond, who was far more talented.

    PS. Gary Lewis, son of Jerry, was Jewish. How about Al Kooper of Blood, Sweat, and Tears?

    Mike Bloomfield learned to play the blues pretty good.

    I think the Dead and Phish(awful) had some Jewish guys.

    How many big homos are there in rock?

    • Replies: @Whereismyhandle
    @Anonymous

    “Uptown Girl” is a fun variation on what Four Seasons did best"

    Great bit from the most underrated comedy of the last 30 years: https://youtu.be/gaAX8x2qOxM

    , @slumber_j
    @Anonymous


    How many big homos are there in rock?
     
    Freddie Mercury obviously: bonus Zoroastrian from Zanzibar. Elton John, also obviously. Judas Priest guy: Rob Halford. (A very funny line from the great mini-doc Heavy Metal Parking Lot is a teenage chick exclaiming of Halford: "I'd jump his bones!") Probably a bunch of other big-time showmen in that mold.
    , @Art Deco
    @Anonymous

    He had one great song and some enjoyable ones. Great one is “Just the Way You Are”.

    Disagree. Two or three fine songs, and not that one: "Allentown", "Scenes from an Italian Restaurant", and "All About Soul".

  115. How bout Dee Snyder from Twisted Sister? The singer from The Scorpions I believe is half Jewish. One or two members of The Cars might be. The core members of Kiss were a Protestant, a Catholic and two Jews.

  116. @Happy Tapir
    Lots of Jewish rock stars. David lee Roth of Van Halen, teddy lee of rush, several people of blue oyster cult(where would we be without Godzilla?!), billy Joel, Neil diamond, the chief members of the Cars, Todd scholtz of Boston(who wrote all the songs and music), I think some members of the Doors, bob Dylan of course, if you would count that as rock, but then you’d have to add Leonard Cohen. Simon and Garfunkel, Beastie boys!! Hellloooo??

    Replies: @Happy Tapir

    Steely Dan, Lou reed, mama cass Elliot, the bangles—I’m ashamed of myself for ommitting

  117. Bad police shooting in Akron. Video coming out today.

    Stay safe everyone.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @John Johnson

    That is a huge, massive hail of bullets from a large number of police killing the reported Jayland Walker in Akron Ohio in the videos, as below.

    With the shooting being so dramatic as well as on video, a question is whether there will be both local and nationwide riots in the George Floyd mode ... or whether we will now have an impression that the George Floyd - BLM riots had to have been agitated and astroturfed by manipulators, if such a dramatic killing of a black man by massive police gunfire in Akron, does not spark similar disturbances now

    Video
    https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1543650300308881408
    or here
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geG9sILTnf0

  118. Alanis Morissette is at least part Jewish and she was a pretty big star for a few years. Not sure she counts as a rocker.

    Likewise Perry Farrell of Jane’s Addiction. He may have been faking his way to rock stardom though. JA as band though rocked hard for the short time that they were together.

  119. Anonymous[381] • Disclaimer says:

    Pretty funny. Sedaka comes on like a proto-peeweeherman with Nerd Pop, and the reaction of the guys and girls in the audience is telling. Guys are like, “who is this geek?” and feel uncomfortable and the girls, though not exactly excited, feel protective.

    What Sedaka had in common with Dylan(and other Jews) was the sheer chutzpah of it all. That HE could be a pop star though he didn’t have the voice, looks, and moves. But by sheer will and inspiration, he made it work, as did Dylan. That sense of oddity was part of their freakshow appeal.

    Even if no more Jewish rock stars, they will always have this.

    • Replies: @Charon
    @Anonymous


    What Sedaka had in common with Dylan(and other Jews) was the sheer chutzpah of it all. That HE could be a pop star though he didn’t have the voice, looks, and moves. But by sheer will and inspiration, he made it work, as did Dylan
     
    Right, they also enjoyed the Privilege Which Must Not Be Named.
  120. @Wilkey
    @ScarletNumber


    I’m not sure if Billy Joel qualifies either.
     
    Really? Really???

    It’s a fair question what particular music qualifies as “rock,” which is why I thought Paul Simon might be questionable, but there’s no doubt that much of Billy Joel’s music is rock.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @MSP, @slumber_j

    Regarding Billy Joel: It’s still rock and roll to me.

  121. Let’s not forget Chris Stein of Blondie fame.

  122. Jews seem to make up a disproportionate share of non-star rock VIPs

    the Leiber/Stoller writing team would appear in any list of the most important people in rock history.

    Phil Spector somehow pulled off being simultaneously the most Jewish and least Jewish guy imaginable.

    The Beatles broke up because Paul tried and failed to take over Epstein’s role following the latter’s death.

    A lot of the punk movement was Jewish, eg Hilly Kristal, the owner of CBGB

  123. No mention of that favorite of artists and nerds, Frank Zappa? The man was a fave of mine and an underrated genius. And since we’re getting obscure, wasn’t The Knack (My Sharona) a Jewish band? Lead singer Doug Fieger was 1/2 at least. To get really obscure, I’ll add Minnesota’s “Lipps Inc” who created that most annoying of earworms “Funkytown.”

    • Replies: @Sollipsist
    @Fidelios Automata

    Zappa was Italian with some Sicilian Arab ancestry. As far as anyone knows, there isn't anything Jewish about him.

    Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax

  124. Anonymous[761] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peterike
    Thanks for the shout out Steve!

    Mick Jones of The Clash is of course half Jewish. The best Jewish rocker other than Dylan is probably Lou Reed of The Velvet Underground fame. Great body of work and highly influential.

    Jewish managers who stole from their acts is a good topic for another day.

    Replies: @Hangnail Hans, @Anonymous

    Strangely enough ‘Mick Jones’ – what a distinctly unjewish name! – the self styled Sandinista, (with a big house in Surrey), is the cousin of the up and coming UK Conservative MP and minister, Grant Shapps.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    Strangely enough ‘Mick Jones’ – what a distinctly unjewish name!
     
    Is the lesser Mick Jones (Foreigner guitarist/songwriter and Mark Ronson's stepdad) Jewish or just happened to marry into a super Jewish family?
  125. @Joe H
    David Lee Roth and the women from the Bangles were Jewish I think, I may be able to remember some more if I think about it, but yes, Jews are underrepresented compared to a lot of other fields. I guess they were more inclined to going off to Broadway or Hollywood.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @JimDandy

    the women from the Bangles were Jewish I think

    The Peterson sisters are not Jewish, but Susanna Hoffs certainly is. Paleo Retiree posted an old clip of Susanna, but she is still going strong at 63.

  126. ctrl-f, “Geddy”, ctrl-f “Rush”. Nada! WTH is wrong with you people?

    I just found out from my son that the Toronto Ultimate Frisbee team is named “Rush”. Excellent! They should be in the top 20 list of bands, or at least 50. That list sounds like it sucks.

    BTW, about Billy Joel. Not a rock star? Get out!!

    • Replies: @Charon
    @Achmed E. Newman


    ctrl-f, “Geddy”, ctrl-f “Rush”. Nada! WTH is wrong with you people?
     
    It's up there; it's just misspelled.

    Read more, write less! Free advice.

    Replies: @Charon, @Achmed E. Newman

  127. pursuant to standard HBD evaluation of representation in the population, or perhaps more accurately, rate of appearance of major figures, yes, it’s largely correct that jewish people don’t appear at a rate in rock and metal like they do in physics or something like that, let alone other music fields like jazz or rap, or writing studio pop music.

    maybe double their rate of the population, if the background population is germanic europeans in general. higher, if it’s slavs, since slavs aren’t that good at music. lower of it’s italians, as italians are good at music. lower still if it’s among the british, who are the most musical people ever. so, even measuring rate of appearance is difficult since the europeans themselves vary so much in music ability.

    i ascribe this largely to the fact that they are rarely great players. yes, there have been great players, like Buddy Rich. but they aren’t common among jewish guys. jews are mainly vocalists, so they’re more prominent as annoying crooners in soft rock and jazz. also, jews are pretty uncool, so it would take something special for them to be a proper hard rock music star. 90s rappers liked to rip off jewish musicians – Biggie Smalls’ entire career was practically made from ripping off a great Herb Alpert jazz song from 1979 and making a loop.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @prime noticer

    Not really accurate. If you look over all the names surfaced in this discussion you’ll see that something like eight to ten percent of the top rock/pop acts during the great golden age of pop/rock (say 1960-2000 or so) were Jewish. Then many many more behind the scenes musicians were. To take one small example almost all Brian Wilson’s musicians for his great Pet Sounds were Jewish, they were LA session musicians (the “wrecking crew”) who also contributed to many other albums around this time

    So it’s closer to 4-5 times overrepresented. This only looks small compared to Jewish overrepresentation in certain other fields

    Replies: @kahein

  128. @Hypnotoad666
    @UES guy

    Interesting list. I didn't realize Danny Elfman was Jewish. But they seem to have left out the Beastie Boys, though.

    Replies: @UES guy, @Mr. Anon

    Yeah, not sure where Wikipedia draws lines between genres. Beasties made the list for Jewish punk rock. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jews_in_punk_rock

    Hip hop at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_rappers

  129. What? No David Lee Roth? No Joey Ramone?

  130. @Spangel226
    Never heard of Elliot smith? listen to his top songs, I’m telling ya! Your life will be the richer for it.

    Replies: @pirelli

    Elliott Smith was one of the best songwriters of the 90s and early 2000s, which was a heyday for gloomy white dudes with acoustic guitars writing thoughtful and interesting tunes (think Jeff Tweedy, Jeff Buckley, Ben Gibbard, Ryan Adams, and Conor Oberst).

    His melodies and chord structures are complex and hauntingly beautiful. That said, his music is a bit of downer, to put it mildly. I listened to him all the time as a morose teenager in the mid-2000s, but I rarely listen to him anymore. There’s a reason Wes Anderson chose Elliott Smith as the music for Richie Tenenbaum’s attempted suicide scene. And of course there’s Elliott Smith’s incredibly depressing life story as well.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    @pirelli

    And of course there’s Elliott Smith’s incredibly depressing life story as well.

    There are many questions about his death, whether it was murder or suicide.

    Replies: @Anon

    , @slumber_j
    @pirelli

    My wife and I and our teenage children are huge Elliott Smith fans. It doesn't matter that his songs are a bummer, which they definitely are: great songs are great songs.

    "The Moon is a sickle cell / It will kill you in time"

    Then in another song: "While the Moon does its division / You're buried below / And you're coming up roses" etc.

    , @Stan Adams
    @pirelli

    A year after the Columbine massacre the school’s (white) star basketball player hanged himself in his garage. He set “Adam’s Song” by Blink-182 on auto-repeat. When his father came home he found his dead son dangling from a rope with the CD player still blaring.

    Not a fan.

  131. @Wilkey
    Billy Joel and Neil Diamond are two of the biggest Jewish rock stars I can think of. Billy Joel’s cousin was the president of Yeshiva University and Diamond even made a movie about being a Jewish rock star, ironically titled “The Jazz Singer” (yes, I know it was a remake, sort of, but still). There is also the half-Jewish Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits.

    I guess Carole King, Paul Simon and Carly Simon count as rock stars, sort of. Laura Nyro - who was the first big act signed by David Steffens - was at least partly Jewish.

    Among slightly more recent acts there is Ezra Koenig of Vampire Weekend, Adam Levine of Maroon 5 (and The Voice), and Nina Gordon of Veruca Salt.

    It seems a bit odd there aren’t more Jewish rock stars, considering it feels like Tin Pan Alley was entirely Jewish, as is a wildly disproportionate share of writers of Broadway musicals. Rock is more about the beat than the lyrics, and Jewish songwriters tend to focus more on the lyrics.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @pirelli, @Thursday, @Prester John, @Unit472, @Adam Smith

    There maybe a definitional problem as what is rock and what is pop which could explain why Paul Simon was left off the rock list ( as were the Everly Brothers who were pretty big in their day). Dionne Warwick and Pet Clark certainly charted enough to be major singers but were they just the vocalists for Burt Bacharach and Tony Hatch who were the real talent? PP&M made a career out of covering Bob Dylan songs and were much better known than Dylan until Like a Rolling Stone. I’m also kind of curious as to why the Dave Clark Five wasn’t on the rock list as they were bigger than the Rolling Stones and gave the Beatles a run for their money for airplay till they just closed up shop and retired and where/what are the Beach Boys if not one of the most famous and biggest selling bands of all time?

  132. Pixo says:
    @SFG
    @SFG

    OK, so if I had to guess, I’d say in the second half of the 20th century when rock was huge, kids liked acts they could fantasize about being, and Jews’ divergence from the Western Europe ideal limited their ability to take jobs primarily depending on charisma. You can see this whole ‘but we’re not really American’ insecurity through a lot of the stuff Steve talks about.

    Of course, there aren’t a lot of Jewish rappers either (other than the Beastie Boys.)

    (Which was why the Marxists decided to blow up that average with their critical theories and such, I guess. Interestingly, I was flipping through the critical race theory red book and I realized most of the names were not Jewish, though they certainly built in the earlier cultural Marxists. There’s probably a story there, though I am not sure what it is.)

    Replies: @ginger bread man, @Pixo

    “ Of course, there aren’t a lot of Jewish rappers either (other than the Beastie Boys.)”

    They were the top white rap act for a decade, and then #2 for another long period after Eminem. There’s a half jewish Canadian mulatto rapper named Drake is probably in the top ten rappers of the past 10-15 years.

    “ Jews’ divergence from the Western Europe ideal limited their ability to take jobs primarily depending on charisma.”

    I don’t think that’s it, rock stars wear crazy makeup and clothing and tend to be short, skinny, and energetic.

  133. Pixo says:

    Rock star is a pretty bad profession. Sure a few people become superstars, hut lots of hit musicians you’ve heard of never made much money. Your first two albums you get little from since you ate unknown and lack leverage. Most rock acts don’t last that long.

    Jews may be more aware of this and push their talented and gregarious kids into safer parts of show-business like acting and production.

    • Replies: @Charon
    @Pixo

    Parental pressure probably doesn't figure strongly in too many "rock star" career decisions.

  134. @Achmed E. Newman
    ctrl-f, "Geddy", ctrl-f "Rush". Nada! WTH is wrong with you people?

    I just found out from my son that the Toronto Ultimate Frisbee team is named "Rush". Excellent! They should be in the top 20 list of bands, or at least 50. That list sounds like it sucks.

    BTW, about Billy Joel. Not a rock star? Get out!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isG3qkQXBic

    Replies: @Charon

    ctrl-f, “Geddy”, ctrl-f “Rush”. Nada! WTH is wrong with you people?

    It’s up there; it’s just misspelled.

    Read more, write less! Free advice.

    • Agree: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @Charon
    @Charon

    Since I posted, Steve's released another hundred posts and maybe 40 of them mention Geddy Lee. 90 of them mention David Lee Roth.

    Steve's figured out how to trigger hundreds of responses with a post like this one, combining two favorite topics.

    We have about 100 of the 'chosen' contributing so far, it would seem, and the day is still young.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Charon

    1) There were 37 comments up, and I read through them too. Though iSteve has his reasons for moderation, you won't see the comments in moderation at times that appear in the order they were submitted later.

    2) I write in jest a lot. I wasn't really mad at the commenters - I just do agree Rush should be up in the list.

    3) I don't need your advice. Thanks, anyway.

    4) I just had to learn that your "misspelled" wasn't misspelt. You learn something new every day.

    5) Quit writing to me, a-hole.

    Replies: @Charon

  135. @Reg Cæsar
    10cc is (was?) 75% Jewish: Graham Gouldman, Lol Creme, Kevin Godley. Eric Stewart was the token goy. As a teenager, Gouldman wrote a helluva lot of hits for other Brits in the 1960s: "Bus Stop", "Listen People", "No Milk Today", "For Your Love", "Heart Full of Soul", "Look Through Any Window". As a temporary Mindbender, he wrote the B-side to "The Game of Love".

    Note that these are in minor keys, which he picked up from is cantor, and made his work stick out.

    Marc Bolan of T Rex was half-Jewish. "Bang a Gong" may have come from that side, but "Ride a White Swan" is the most druidic hit song by anybody.

    And how can we forget Mama Cass?

    Replies: @Pixo, @Art Deco

    “ Note that these are in minor keys, which he picked up from is cantor, and made his work stick out.”

    Very interesting. I like those songs, and they do have a common feel. But the Hollies and Yardbirds were so talented they didn’t necessarily need good songwriting.

  136. Anon[271] • Disclaimer says:

    Paul Stanley of KISS. Born Stanley Eisen. Had a nice raspy voice in his prime, great falsetto on one of their hits, “I was made for loving you baby”.
    The band The Black Crowes (solid Rock Band) had the Gorman Brothers guitarists and vocalist Chris Robinson was Jewish also.
    Waddy Wachtel and Andrew Gold, guitarists over the years for Linda Ronstadt and Stevie Nicks were Jewish.
    Donald Fagan and the late Walter Becker of Steeley Dan, who were in radio rotation on rock stations, were also Jewish and makers of some very good hit songs. Deacon Frey was named after one of Glen Frey’s favorite Steeley Dan tunes (mine too), Deacon Blues.

    Wish it was 1978 and we had Jimmy Carter again. So much better than the kompromised konfounded klutz we have now.

    • Replies: @Bourne
    @Anon

    Donald Fagan is Jewish but Walter Becker was not.

    , @Ripple Earthdevil
    @Anon

    Chris Robinson of the Black Crowes and more recently the Chris Robinson Brotherhood -- he's also collaborated occasionally with Phil Lesh of the Grateful Dead is not Jewish.

    BTW Phil Lesh who is not Jewish used to hold seders at his now-closed venue/restaurant/bar Terrapin Crossroads in San Rafael CA.

    Three Jefferson Airplane members Balin, Kaukonen, and Dryden are all half Jewish. Paul Kantner, despite the Jewish-sounding name, was Catholic and went to military school.

    Michael Stipe of REM is not Jewish.

    Replies: @Anon

  137. @Pixo
    Rock star is a pretty bad profession. Sure a few people become superstars, hut lots of hit musicians you’ve heard of never made much money. Your first two albums you get little from since you ate unknown and lack leverage. Most rock acts don’t last that long.

    Jews may be more aware of this and push their talented and gregarious kids into safer parts of show-business like acting and production.

    Replies: @Charon

    Parental pressure probably doesn’t figure strongly in too many “rock star” career decisions.

    • Agree: International Jew
    • LOL: kaganovitch
  138. Well, there’s…
    Al Kooper (born Al Kuperschmidt) – early career as guitarist for the Royal Teens; wrote the Gary Lewis & the Playboys hit This Diamond Ring; came up with and played the signature organ riff on Dylan’s Like a Rolling Stone (there’s a wonderful backstory to that one) and was in Dylan’s band for the (in)famous Newport Folk Festival when Dylan “went electric”; founder and main songwriter for famed New York band the Blues Project; founder of Blood, Sweat, and Tears, produced and wrote much of the first album, then was kicked out of the band that he founded before the album’s release; did the brilliant Super/Session album with guitarist extraordinaire Mike Bloomfield (side 1) and other guitarist extraordinaire Steve Stills (side 2); discovered Lynyrd Skynyrd, signed them, and produced their first three albums; and much, much more. His autobiography Backstage Passes and Backstabbing Bastards: Memoirs of a Rock ‘n’ Roll Survivor is a classic and thoroughly enjoyable.

    And there are…
    Bob Feldman, Jerry Goldstein, and Richard Gottehrer, an early-‘60s songwriting and production team (e.g., “My Boyfriend’s Back” for the Angels) who took note of the British Invasion and set themselves up as the Strangeloves, ostensibly “three brothers named Giles, Miles, and Niles Strange, who were raised on an Australian sheep farm.” They had some hits – Cara-Lin, I Gotta Dance, Night-Time (later covered by the J. Geils Band), and I Want Candy (covered later by Bow Wow Wow).

  139. @PiltdownMan
    @Jack D


    Nothing about Springsteen would indicate that he has any Jewish blood.
     
    Springsteen looked somewhat Jewish when he was younger, but even more so now that he is older, I'd say.

    https://i.imgur.com/q3hW2XG.jpg

    Replies: @jejej, @Wilkey, @Hangnail Hans, @njguy73, @Mr. Anon

    To paraphrase Lenny Bruce, if you’re from New Jersey, even if you’re Gentile, you’re Jewish. And if you live in Idaho, even if you’re Jewish, you’re goyishe.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @njguy73

    As a life-long resident of New Jersey, I've always felt culturally Jewish, even though I'm not a member of the tribe

    Replies: @Satanic6Music6Industry6

  140. It’s almost as if there weren’t a lot of young Jewish people contemplating a pointless job in a Lucas car horn factory in rapidly deindustrializing Birmingham or something.

  141. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    I love Joe Strummer, but there’s no Clash without Mick Jones. They tried, under the influence of their (Jewish) manager: it was dismal.

    Replies: @Roderick Spode

    Mick Jones was half Jewish (his mother was a Russian Jew)

  142. anon[173] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    Their managers and record company execs are the more heavily Jewish ones. Hey, give those guys some credit for bringing you your tunes.

    #1 Brian Epstein, manager of the Beatles:


    https://i2-prod.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article6292472.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/zzdti74229.jpg

    Replies: @SFG, @anon, @Anon, @Richard B

    Their managers and record company execs are the more heavily Jewish ones. Hey, give those guys some credit for bringing you your tunes.

    Lots of rap music managers, executives, and producers were Jewish as well. And lots of Jewish rap DJs, instrumentalists, and even rappers going back to the 80s.

  143. Clearly it’s the guilt-inducing Jewish mother, who instills overwhelming guilt into the young boy for making her suffer through loud guitar and band practice. Instead of being a proper “nice Jewish boy,” he is acting as a loud Jewish boy, and this she promptly smothers.

  144. @Brutusale
    Everyone forgets Tommy Ramone, born Tomas Erdelyi in Budapest.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Ramone

    Truth be told, he was the manager, but they couldn't find a drummer.

    Replies: @Roderick Spode

    Joey Ramone (née Jeffrey Ross Hyman) was 100% kosher, God bless him

  145. @Joe H
    David Lee Roth and the women from the Bangles were Jewish I think, I may be able to remember some more if I think about it, but yes, Jews are underrepresented compared to a lot of other fields. I guess they were more inclined to going off to Broadway or Hollywood.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @JimDandy

    David Lee Roth, yeah. And Alice Cooper… Robbie Robertson was born to a Jewish gangster and a Canadian squaw. Steely Dan. Paul Simon AND Garfunkel. Geddy Lee. Adam Duritz. Lenny Kravitz. Perry Ferrell is a totally indie alt rock rebel, dude, as well as a far-right Jewish Zionist named Peretz Bernstein. “White trash” Pink is a Jewess. Amy Winehouse, of course. The Christian arena-rock-anthemist, Norm Greenbaum was an Orthodox Jew. No, Iggy is not Jewish, but punk has always been heavy on the Jewish side–The Ramones, The Dictators, Lou Reed, Richard Hell, Sylvain Sylvain of The New York Dolls, Blondie’s Chris Stein, fucking terrible late-wave Good Charlotte, Fall Out Boy, NOFX, Sleater-Kinney. Patti Smith yearned to become a Jew, but realized she wasn’t really wanted there. Rap? Yeah, Beastie Boys, 3rd Bass, etc.–Josh Norek of Hip Hop Hoodíos stated that “before Eminem, pretty much the only white rappers were Jewish.” And don’t forget Drake, homie. Uh, Adam Levine? Even Harry Connick is Jewish. It ain’t as evident as Hollywood, but Jews are very OVERrepresented in rock (and its cousins) in relation to their percentage of the population. A true rock and roll front man is a very alpha, goyish archetype, but that didn’t stop them. I could go on and….heyyyyyyyyy, wait a minute, Steve–was this a goddamned troll? Ya got me!

  146. That list is totally lame. They left out:

    Eddie Cochran
    Chuck Berry
    Bo Diddley
    The Coasters
    James Brown
    Johnny Otis
    Everly Brothers
    Jerry Lee Lewis
    Hank Ballard & The Midnighters
    Ritchie Valens
    Jackie Wilson
    Carl Perkins
    The Diamonds
    Dion and the Belmonts
    The Shirelles
    The Isley Brothers

    Little Richard !!!

    and we haven’t even gotten to the 1960’s yet; or is “Summertime Blues” not “rock?” No Jews though.

    • Replies: @mark green
    @Rocker


    That list is totally lame. They left out:
     
    The Moody Blues as well as Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young (individually, or collectively) should have been on the list, too.

    Replies: @Rocker

  147. @Reg Cæsar
    10cc is (was?) 75% Jewish: Graham Gouldman, Lol Creme, Kevin Godley. Eric Stewart was the token goy. As a teenager, Gouldman wrote a helluva lot of hits for other Brits in the 1960s: "Bus Stop", "Listen People", "No Milk Today", "For Your Love", "Heart Full of Soul", "Look Through Any Window". As a temporary Mindbender, he wrote the B-side to "The Game of Love".

    Note that these are in minor keys, which he picked up from is cantor, and made his work stick out.

    Marc Bolan of T Rex was half-Jewish. "Bang a Gong" may have come from that side, but "Ride a White Swan" is the most druidic hit song by anybody.

    And how can we forget Mama Cass?

    Replies: @Pixo, @Art Deco

    And how can we forget Mama Cass?

    After 1968, her repertoire was popular, but not rock. Billy Joel also is not properly classified as a rock musician, though he was a Top 40 performer at his peak. Bob Dylan is more in the realm of folk-acoustic than rock.

    While we’re at it, this is a stupid topic.

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Art Deco

    "While we're at it, this is a stupid topic."

    Planet of the Apes? Let's go Ape!

    , @Cool Shoes
    @Art Deco

    Just think, if Mama Cass had only shared that ham sandwich with Karen Carpenter, they might both be alive today...

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Art Deco



    And how can we forget Mama Cass?
     
    After 1968, her repertoire was popular, but not rock.
     
    It's said that the line "No one's gettin' fat 'cept Mama Cass" in the autobiographical* "Creeque Alley" refers to her making good money singing side gigs at bar mitzvahs while her bandmates were starving. I don't know if this has been verified, but it's both more plausible and less insulting than the more literal and common assumption. You'd assume she was singing standards at these events.

    The closest to her in style at the time was Elaine "Spanky" McFarlane of Spanky and Our Gang. (At least two popular acts of the late 1960s were named for Buckwheat's bros.) When the Papas regrouped to tour decades later, it was the perfect touch to invite Spanky to fill Cass's slot. Laura Mackenzie Phillips took her stepmom's place.

    Strange-but-true fact: Scott Mackenzie was named (by Papa John) after Laura, not vice versa.


    While we’re at it, this is a stupid topic.

     

    Granted, but it's smart-adjacent. Ethnomusicology is a fascinating subject, and wholly legitimate. Steve is just slumming here.

    *Is it "autobiographical" if it's about a group? Is there some Greek plural prefix that's more appropriate?

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

  148. Weird.

    I think that 5-10% is a very good representation.

  149. @PiltdownMan
    @Jack D


    Nothing about Springsteen would indicate that he has any Jewish blood.
     
    Springsteen looked somewhat Jewish when he was younger, but even more so now that he is older, I'd say.

    https://i.imgur.com/q3hW2XG.jpg

    Replies: @jejej, @Wilkey, @Hangnail Hans, @njguy73, @Mr. Anon

    Springsteen looked somewhat Jewish when he was younger, but even more so now that he is older, I’d say.

    That picture of Springsteen makes him look like Matthew McConaughey’s older brother.

    Springsteen is a Dutch name, I believe. He’s a gentile, as far as anyone knows.

    • Agree: Not Raul
  150. @ScarletNumber
    Guns N’ Roses' accountant is Jewish. His name is Richard Feldstein and his son's name is Jonah Hill Feldstein.

    Bruce Springsteen may not be Jewish but his drummer Max Weinberg is. Max also led the band for Conan O'Brien for many years, but I don't know if he qualifies as a rock star per se. I'm not sure if Billy Joel qualifies either.

    Jon Bauman from Sha Na Na played a rock star but probably wasn't one himself. Andrew Dice Clay was the first rock star/comedian.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @Art Deco

    Andrew Dice Clay was the first rock star/comedian.

    Andrew Dice Clay is not a comedian.

  151. MGB says:
    @SFG
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Not crazy to think an ethnic group specializing in finance and commerce for the past 1000 years would have more than its fair share of business roles in the rock business.

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @MGB

    That’s a book that needs to be written. All of the thieving rock star managers. I think it was Gene Simmons who told a story about a prospective management team talking in Hebrew about how they were going to ‘gut him like fish’, only to find out he understood.

    • Replies: @Corn
    @MGB

    Allegedly, the “gutter” was Haim Saban. The story goes Haim Saban and a fellow Israeli associate or underling were meeting with Simmons to negotiate a management or merchandising rights contract.

    At one point Saban turned to his associate and said “This is where we gut him” in Hebrew. Simmons then bolted up, said “Hey assholes, I’m one of you!” in Hebrew, and walked out of the meeting.

  152. Nobody’s mentioned J.E.W. (Jimmy Eat World).

  153. @Hypnotoad666
    @UES guy

    Interesting list. I didn't realize Danny Elfman was Jewish. But they seem to have left out the Beastie Boys, though.

    Replies: @UES guy, @Mr. Anon

    I have read that Elfman was primarily just a frontman, and that the musical genius behind Oingo Boingo was the lead guitarist, Steve Bartek. I don’t know if this is true or not. But given that Elfman is such an obnoxious weirdo, it’s easy to believe the worst of him. Boingo was a good band. Elfman’s film music is garbage.

  154. @Hapalong Cassidy
    I would wager that Adam Levine of Maroon 5 is by far the most popular Jewish rock star. The term “rock” defined rather loosely of course.

    Replies: @Jay Fink, @Paul Jolliffe

    When I saw Adam Levine on a Superbowl half time show with his buff tattooed body it made me less proud to be Jewish. I realize that’s the way rock stars (yeah I know his music is pop not rock) are supposed to look these days. Still traditionally Jewish men were more bookish or nerdish looking than hyper masculine. I liked Woody Allen being representative of Jewish masculinity, not Adam Levine.

    • Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Jay Fink


    ... Adam Levine ... with his buff tattooed body ...
     
    He for sure won't be buried in a Jewish cemetery!

    Replies: @kaganovitch

  155. Jews are exceptionally talented in some fields (physics, finance) but not in others (music, painting). The list of great Jewish classical composers, for example, is less than awe-inspiring.

    They are only about 0.2% of humanity. Statistically, something would definitely be up if they were dominant across the board. Offhand, whereas my idea of a good time is building a new cold frame, I think Jews really are most comfortable manipulating concepts. The Tsars were able to get German gentiles to colonize new lands easily enough — but Jews fought like mad cats to avoid becoming farmers.

    Etc. They’re strong in some areas — not in all.

    • Replies: @Jay Fink
    @Colin Wright

    We have high IQs in verbal/reasoning but are nothing special (or in my case below average) in spatial intelligence. My dad could complete any crossword puzzle but couldn't fix anything around the house. He even had trouble screwing in a lightbulb.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Colin Wright

    , @Curle
    @Colin Wright

    I haven’t seen the list, but whenever I choose to listen to classical, Mahler’s one of my first choices.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

  156. Anonymous[761] • Disclaimer says:

    Tom Robinson of the the Tom Robinson Band.

    Trailblazers of the late 1970s “New Wave” movement in the UK – a term invented by music journos to describe a whole raft of artists who came after the Sex Pistols – edgy but not *too* edgy, a sort of punk lite which would be acceptable to mom.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    Tom Robinson of the the Tom Robinson Band.

     

    Of ex-gay fame.
  157. She is a pop/hip hop star (rock isn’t very popular these days) but one of the top charting artists of this era, Doja Cat, is half Jewish.

  158. @Paleo Retiree
    Mega-hottie Susannah Hoffs of The Bangles. Here’s a smokin’ live performance from her solo years. Her shy/bold, drunk-on-sex 20 second spoken intro is a mini-masterpiece in its own right.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rOEf9vF1kc

    Replies: @Ramk, @Mr. Anon, @Reg Cæsar

    The Bangles were the most talented female rock performers. And rather nice to look at too.

    A lesser known song by them, in the surf-rock style – Bitchin Summer:

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Mr. Anon


    The Bangles were the most talented female rock performers.
     
    That they were, but it seems like the Go-Gos got the better songs, at least for singles. "Manic Monday" is awful for Prince, which is likely why he gave it away. (Lennon and McCartney, in contrast, gave away some of their best songs, e.g., "World Without Love", "Come and Get It", "Bad to Me", the last of which is the most Beatlesque song ever.)

    They covered the wrong Kimberley Rew song, "Going Down to Liverpool". Rew saved his "Walking on Sunshine" for his own band.

    "Walk Like an Egyptian" is the sort of novelty tune (written by their manager, or similar) that is either wonderful or terrible, depending on one's mood at the time.

    "Walking Down Your Street" is a decent retro-60s attempt. "Eternal Flame" made it to #1 in several countries, but for some reason I don't recall hearing it back in the day. Our village sometimes includes it on their loudspeaker track. I hear it walking down my street!

    Replies: @flyingtiger, @ScarletNumber, @ScarletNumber

  159. In the Wimp Rock subgenre, what about the Lovin’ Spoonful?

  160. @onetwothree
    Yeah, you're missing some, though "star" is maybe an iffy factor. Peter Green, members from the J Geils Band, Blue Oyster Cult. Dylan's various co-musicians tended to have a Jewish tint. Mike Bloomfield, Al Kooper, Robbie Robertson. And don't forget Geddy Lee, who has kind of a funny voice and I forgot about him until checking out this useful source:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_rock_musicians

    ...damn that page is really stretching the truth. (Do Jews do that? Stretch the truth?) Danny Elfman? A rock musician?

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @alaska3636, @SunBakedSuburb, @Dave Pinsen

    Geddy Lee is more niche than we Rush fans like to admit. I once met a woman who had sat next to Geddy at a dinner party – some mutual friend. She had no idea who he was, and when he told her he was a musician she replied “well, I hope that’s working out for you.”

    • LOL: Adam Smith
    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Peter Akuleyev

    "Geddy Lee is more niche than we Rush fans like to admit."

    Rush is a niche band. An incredibly successful niche band. But not with the ladies. I've been to several Rush concerts: a sea of white male faces. A lot of guys there with their sons. Nary a jackass to be found. Camaraderie fills the air. Great live music experiences. Now that Rush is gone, Tool has become the white male bonding band. Most chix don't dig Tool either.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Anonymous, @Abe

  161. @onetwothree
    Yeah, you're missing some, though "star" is maybe an iffy factor. Peter Green, members from the J Geils Band, Blue Oyster Cult. Dylan's various co-musicians tended to have a Jewish tint. Mike Bloomfield, Al Kooper, Robbie Robertson. And don't forget Geddy Lee, who has kind of a funny voice and I forgot about him until checking out this useful source:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_rock_musicians

    ...damn that page is really stretching the truth. (Do Jews do that? Stretch the truth?) Danny Elfman? A rock musician?

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @alaska3636, @SunBakedSuburb, @Dave Pinsen

    Danny Elfman was the founder of Oingo Boingo. They were a sort of artsy pop group but isn’t all music since Buddy Holly basically rock and roll?

  162. @Buzz Mohawk
    Their managers and record company execs are the more heavily Jewish ones. Hey, give those guys some credit for bringing you your tunes.

    #1 Brian Epstein, manager of the Beatles:


    https://i2-prod.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article6292472.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/zzdti74229.jpg

    Replies: @SFG, @anon, @Anon, @Richard B

    I remember Keith Richards saying a few decades ago how he knew Alan Klein ripped off The Rolling Stones, but Richards said he looked back on it as the cost of an education. IOW no hard feelings.

  163. @Wilkey
    Billy Joel and Neil Diamond are two of the biggest Jewish rock stars I can think of. Billy Joel’s cousin was the president of Yeshiva University and Diamond even made a movie about being a Jewish rock star, ironically titled “The Jazz Singer” (yes, I know it was a remake, sort of, but still). There is also the half-Jewish Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits.

    I guess Carole King, Paul Simon and Carly Simon count as rock stars, sort of. Laura Nyro - who was the first big act signed by David Steffens - was at least partly Jewish.

    Among slightly more recent acts there is Ezra Koenig of Vampire Weekend, Adam Levine of Maroon 5 (and The Voice), and Nina Gordon of Veruca Salt.

    It seems a bit odd there aren’t more Jewish rock stars, considering it feels like Tin Pan Alley was entirely Jewish, as is a wildly disproportionate share of writers of Broadway musicals. Rock is more about the beat than the lyrics, and Jewish songwriters tend to focus more on the lyrics.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @pirelli, @Thursday, @Prester John, @Unit472, @Adam Smith

    Louise Post and Jim Shapiro (of Veruca Salt) are also Jewish.

  164. @Charon
    @Achmed E. Newman


    ctrl-f, “Geddy”, ctrl-f “Rush”. Nada! WTH is wrong with you people?
     
    It's up there; it's just misspelled.

    Read more, write less! Free advice.

    Replies: @Charon, @Achmed E. Newman

    Since I posted, Steve’s released another hundred posts and maybe 40 of them mention Geddy Lee. 90 of them mention David Lee Roth.

    Steve’s figured out how to trigger hundreds of responses with a post like this one, combining two favorite topics.

    We have about 100 of the ‘chosen’ contributing so far, it would seem, and the day is still young.

  165. Anonymous[439] • Disclaimer says:

    Blackrock pays better than hard rock.

    Are there still Jewish giants in comedy?

    Jewish Male aggression of Norman Mailer, Philip Roth, Harvey Weistein, Ron Jeremy, and Mel Brooks seem kinda rare these days.

    Don’t rock the boat that is now ours?

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Anonymous

    Ah yes, Ron Jeremy, Mr. Longdick. The hedgehog porn star. Real name Ron Hyatt. Last I heard Ron was on his way to prison or is in prison for rape. I believe he hails from the hotel dynasty.

    Replies: @Joe Paluka

  166. @I, Libertine
    Elvis was one-eighth Jewish, and simply "Jewish" as a matter of traditional Jewish law.

    Replies: @JimDandy

    Thanks, that’s really interesting.

    Elvis’ maternal great-great-grandmother was a Jewish woman named Nancy Burdine…. The Presleys once lived in an apartment directly below the family of Rabbi Alfred Fruchter, the first principal of the Memphis Hebrew Academy. The rabbi’s son, Harold, said that Elvis actually served as the Fruchters’ “Shabbos goy,” a non-Jew who performs household tasks for observant Jews that are normally forbidden on the Jewish Sabbath…. Elvis put a Star of David on his mother’s headstone.

  167. @Anonymous
    Pretty funny. Sedaka comes on like a proto-peeweeherman with Nerd Pop, and the reaction of the guys and girls in the audience is telling. Guys are like, "who is this geek?" and feel uncomfortable and the girls, though not exactly excited, feel protective.

    What Sedaka had in common with Dylan(and other Jews) was the sheer chutzpah of it all. That HE could be a pop star though he didn't have the voice, looks, and moves. But by sheer will and inspiration, he made it work, as did Dylan. That sense of oddity was part of their freakshow appeal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e72tG80LmsU

    Even if no more Jewish rock stars, they will always have this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUCNAnp2QAI

    Replies: @Charon

    What Sedaka had in common with Dylan(and other Jews) was the sheer chutzpah of it all. That HE could be a pop star though he didn’t have the voice, looks, and moves. But by sheer will and inspiration, he made it work, as did Dylan

    Right, they also enjoyed the Privilege Which Must Not Be Named.

  168. @michael droy
    Amazed that Madonna is not jewish.

    Replies: @Muggles, @Dandy Wine

    Amazed that Madonna is not jewish.

    Not a popular Jewish female name. But the famous one, was.

  169. Anonymous[979] • Disclaimer says:

    Not rock but…

  170. @Coag
    Surprised Geddy Lee hasn’t been mentioned yet.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    I did. Master musician. His vocals are an acquired taste but gets props for properly enunciating Neil Peart’s literary lyrics.

  171. @Wilkey
    @ScarletNumber


    I’m not sure if Billy Joel qualifies either.
     
    Really? Really???

    It’s a fair question what particular music qualifies as “rock,” which is why I thought Paul Simon might be questionable, but there’s no doubt that much of Billy Joel’s music is rock.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber, @MSP, @slumber_j

    I was just musing on this here on my so-far luggage-free (thanks to a transfer in Paris) vacation in Rome yesterday: Looking Glass, a Rutgers U. band who did “Brandy (You’re a Fine Girl)” were almost certainly mostly Jewish. There are tons of these.

  172. anonymous[137] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Johnson
    Bad police shooting in Akron. Video coming out today.

    Stay safe everyone.

    Replies: @anonymous

    That is a huge, massive hail of bullets from a large number of police killing the reported Jayland Walker in Akron Ohio in the videos, as below.

    With the shooting being so dramatic as well as on video, a question is whether there will be both local and nationwide riots in the George Floyd mode … or whether we will now have an impression that the George Floyd – BLM riots had to have been agitated and astroturfed by manipulators, if such a dramatic killing of a black man by massive police gunfire in Akron, does not spark similar disturbances now

    Video


    or here

  173. @Fidelios Automata
    No mention of that favorite of artists and nerds, Frank Zappa? The man was a fave of mine and an underrated genius. And since we're getting obscure, wasn't The Knack (My Sharona) a Jewish band? Lead singer Doug Fieger was 1/2 at least. To get really obscure, I'll add Minnesota's "Lipps Inc" who created that most annoying of earworms "Funkytown."

    Replies: @Sollipsist

    Zappa was Italian with some Sicilian Arab ancestry. As far as anyone knows, there isn’t anything Jewish about him.

    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    @Sollipsist

    I had assumed Zappa was jewish well into my 30's. I think it was because he looked it--in that way many Italians do ala John Torturro--and he had intellectual pretense about him as well as being satirical, and apropos the jewish rock press, he was highly regarded by critics. But I think mainly it's the strange inability (for me) to ethnically place his last name. Whenever I hear a weird last name and everything else seems to point in that direction, I assume the name got chopped/changed somewhere between Minsk and Ellis Island.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  174. @Peter Akuleyev
    @onetwothree

    Geddy Lee is more niche than we Rush fans like to admit. I once met a woman who had sat next to Geddy at a dinner party - some mutual friend. She had no idea who he was, and when he told her he was a musician she replied “well, I hope that’s working out for you.”

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    “Geddy Lee is more niche than we Rush fans like to admit.”

    Rush is a niche band. An incredibly successful niche band. But not with the ladies. I’ve been to several Rush concerts: a sea of white male faces. A lot of guys there with their sons. Nary a jackass to be found. Camaraderie fills the air. Great live music experiences. Now that Rush is gone, Tool has become the white male bonding band. Most chix don’t dig Tool either.

    • Agree: Charon
    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @SunBakedSuburb

    All you have to do is listen to the audience cheering from Rush's live album Exit Stage Left and compare to a live track from pretty much any other popular rock band from that period. You'll notice the cheering is about 2 octaves lower on ESL.

    Tool is sort of a combination of Rush and Pink Floyd in the sense of wild time signatures/arrangements and extended pieces of music that are very repetitious.

    , @Anonymous
    @SunBakedSuburb


    An incredibly successful niche band. But not with the ladies.
     
    I remember a female rock band from the 70s being interviewed about experiences touring as women. They had lots of praise for a lot of their male colleagues, but they singled out Rush (along with a British punk band I can't remember) as by far the most unpleasant and dismissive of all the bands they crossed paths with. Said they were absolutely miserable to interact with.

    Now that Rush is gone, Tool has become the white male bonding band. Most chix don’t dig Tool either.
     
    Definitely not quite as dramatically so as in the case of Rush, in my experience.
    , @Abe
    @SunBakedSuburb


    Rush is a niche band. An incredibly successful niche band. But not with the ladies.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q-J-2-QL6I
  175. Micky Dolenz (Monkees). Whose daughter Amy later displayed in Playboy.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Haxo Angmark

    No, unless there was Jewish somewhere on his mother's side. His father was an ethnic Slovene, born Jure Dolenc.

  176. @Anon
    Paul Stanley of KISS. Born Stanley Eisen. Had a nice raspy voice in his prime, great falsetto on one of their hits, "I was made for loving you baby".
    The band The Black Crowes (solid Rock Band) had the Gorman Brothers guitarists and vocalist Chris Robinson was Jewish also.
    Waddy Wachtel and Andrew Gold, guitarists over the years for Linda Ronstadt and Stevie Nicks were Jewish.
    Donald Fagan and the late Walter Becker of Steeley Dan, who were in radio rotation on rock stations, were also Jewish and makers of some very good hit songs. Deacon Frey was named after one of Glen Frey's favorite Steeley Dan tunes (mine too), Deacon Blues.

    Wish it was 1978 and we had Jimmy Carter again. So much better than the kompromised konfounded klutz we have now.

    Replies: @Bourne, @Ripple Earthdevil

    Donald Fagan is Jewish but Walter Becker was not.

  177. @Art Deco
    @Reg Cæsar

    And how can we forget Mama Cass?

    After 1968, her repertoire was popular, but not rock. Billy Joel also is not properly classified as a rock musician, though he was a Top 40 performer at his peak. Bob Dylan is more in the realm of folk-acoustic than rock.

    While we're at it, this is a stupid topic.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @Cool Shoes, @Reg Cæsar

    “While we’re at it, this is a stupid topic.”

    Planet of the Apes? Let’s go Ape!

  178. @pirelli
    @Spangel226

    Elliott Smith was one of the best songwriters of the 90s and early 2000s, which was a heyday for gloomy white dudes with acoustic guitars writing thoughtful and interesting tunes (think Jeff Tweedy, Jeff Buckley, Ben Gibbard, Ryan Adams, and Conor Oberst).

    His melodies and chord structures are complex and hauntingly beautiful. That said, his music is a bit of downer, to put it mildly. I listened to him all the time as a morose teenager in the mid-2000s, but I rarely listen to him anymore. There’s a reason Wes Anderson chose Elliott Smith as the music for Richie Tenenbaum’s attempted suicide scene. And of course there’s Elliott Smith’s incredibly depressing life story as well.

    Replies: @prosa123, @slumber_j, @Stan Adams

    And of course there’s Elliott Smith’s incredibly depressing life story as well.

    There are many questions about his death, whether it was murder or suicide.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @prosa123

    I've read his autopsy report, and judging from that alone, it was murder.

    Replies: @Angharad

  179. @Anonymous
    Steely Dan very Jewish.

    Graham Parker Jewish?

    Paul Anka and Neil Sedaka.

    Leslie Gore Jewish?

    Recently, Amy Swinehouse was big before she croaked.

    One thing for sure, rock music got less witty and cerebral over the years.

    Brill Building and the like had Jewish composers who didn't themselves become stars.

    Replies: @Bourne, @Art Deco

    Paul Anka is Lebanese, not Jewish.

  180. I was surprised to find out a few years ago that Walter Becker of Steely Dan is not Jewish, unlike Donald Fagan. Another surprise to me was that at least two of the main members of the Hooters are Jewish; their songs come off like they just ordinary working class white guys.

    • Replies: @Peterike
    @Joe H

    “I was surprised to find out a few years ago that Walter Becker of Steely Dan is not Jewish, unlike Donald Fagan.”

    Fagan writes the pervy, creeping on your 19 year old daughter lyrics. At least he’s not gay.

  181. Perhaps the more interesting question is: will rock music last?

    Or it will become irrelevant, which is the case with jazz?

    https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2019/04/11/is-jazz-dead/

    Is Jazz Dead?

    Contemporary popular culture caricatures jazz as the music of their grandparents, the intelligentsia and elevators. In 2014, Nielsen reported that jazz garners a whopping 1.4% of music consumption in the United States. Jazz’s most recent and popular representations in “Whiplash” and “La La Land” claim it’s dying. And perhaps, this is true. For most people, jazz is sadly irrelevant. A relic of another day.

    I don’t know.

    My guess is that some kind of pop-rock music, nice to listen to, will have survived. For instance, you’re working in a garage. You can’t read or watch a movie (anatomically-cognitively impossible)- but you can listen to music & hum. And it is unlikely you’ll listen to classical/concert music. Also, with some exceptions- not Italian belcanto nor French chanson.

    Rock music is 60-70 years old. With very exceptions, most of Asia, Latin America, big parts of Europe, Arab world, Africa….. are not into it as something significant.

    So I think rock music, in more melodious varieties, will survive, while rock as some kind of culture or even world-view will naturally vanish.

  182. @Charon
    @Achmed E. Newman


    ctrl-f, “Geddy”, ctrl-f “Rush”. Nada! WTH is wrong with you people?
     
    It's up there; it's just misspelled.

    Read more, write less! Free advice.

    Replies: @Charon, @Achmed E. Newman

    1) There were 37 comments up, and I read through them too. Though iSteve has his reasons for moderation, you won’t see the comments in moderation at times that appear in the order they were submitted later.

    2) I write in jest a lot. I wasn’t really mad at the commenters – I just do agree Rush should be up in the list.

    3) I don’t need your advice. Thanks, anyway.

    4) I just had to learn that your “misspelled” wasn’t misspelt. You learn something new every day.

    5) Quit writing to me, a-hole.

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @Charon
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Quit writing to me, a-hole.
     
    Try this. Quit writing 20,000 words a day on this one blog alone. And quit using it as a vehicle for flogging your own, which absolutely no one cares about. Free advice! HTH.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  183. @kahein
    lol gentile concern-trolling. i mean, is this for real?

    besides the huge obvious ones, how about:

    warren zevon (half)
    donald fagen/walter becker
    perry farrell
    mike bloomfield/al kooper
    dave mustaine (jewish mother)
    david lee roth / sammy hagar
    fucking slash lol
    peter green (fleetwood mac)
    scott ian (anthrax)
    adam horovitz / adam yauch
    jonathan richman
    christ stein (blondie)
    tom verlaine (nee, miller), richard hell (nee, myers)
    the ramones / the dictators / the circle jerks
    gene ween
    dave berman, yo

    Replies: @Bourne, @Anon

    Sammy Hagar is British/Italian, not Jewish. David Lee Roth is Jewish, though.

  184. Only an extremely small segment of the American population cares which rock stars are Jewish. In other words, it’s wasted digital ink.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    @Corvinus


    In other words, it’s wasted digital ink.
     
    Much like your commenting oeuvre.
    , @SunBakedSuburb
    @Corvinus

    "In other words, it's wasted digital ink."

    Depressed because Pride month is over? Take heart, Corvy: Every month is Pride month at the Roy Disney's Daughter's Corporation. Btw: Why did you homosexuals allow your mainstreaming effort to be co-opted by the transgender miasma?

    Replies: @Corvinus

  185. Why so few Jewish rock stars? Good question, in view of the fact Jews are well represented in adjacent fields such as lyric writing and classical music performance.

    What talents exactly does it take to be a rock star? What with all the electronic enhancement, do you need much technical prowess?

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @International Jew


    What talents exactly does it take to be a rock star?
     
    To be a Neanderthal.
    , @njguy73
    @International Jew

    There is not now, nor has their ever been, a Jewish rock star. There have, however, been any number of Jewish entrepreneurs who work in the Rock medium.

    Gene Simmons was born Chaim Witz in Israel in 1949. If, on the day he was born, you put him in a time machine and sent him to California in 1999, he'd be an app developer today.

  186. David Lee Roth , the first lead vocalist for Van Halen, is Jewish.
    Michael Stipe, lead vocalist for REM, is Jewish.

  187. @pirelli
    @Wilkey

    Lou Reed (Velvet Underground)
    Donald Fagen (Steely Dan)
    David Lee Roth (Van Halen)

    Plus as you mention:

    Paul Simon
    Billy Joel
    Neil Diamond
    Mark Knopfler

    I mean, those are all very heavy hitters. Top 100 (or at least members of top 100 bands) for sure. So when you add them to Dylan, Bolan, Simmons, and the others, the percentage doesn’t strike me as all that small.

    Plus if you count songwriters in addition to performers (like the guys who wrote Elvis’s hits), then the percentage would be a lot higher.

    And I’ll be darned, I’d always assumed Springsteen was Jewish.

    Replies: @Right_On, @Element59

    Hadn’t realized Lou Reed was Jewish. Memorable, haunting lyrics in rock were always a crucial element to make me keep returning to a song, and Reed, Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen came close to deserving the label “poets”.

    On Steve’s “Bang the Gong (Get It On)” is awesome: here’s Bolan performing on Top of the Pops. I remember the purple Rupert the Bear tee-shirt was popular in the UK.

  188. As far as I can tell, Brian Epstein was an honest manager of the Beatles. Didn’t steal their money. His problem was that he was a novice in the business, and didn’t always get the best deals for his clients.

    • Replies: @pirelli
    @G. Poulin

    I think the best single answer to the question of “why did the Beatles break up” is that they never filled the vacuum created by Epstein’s death in summer of 67 (just after Sgt Pepper’s).

    1) after Epstein’s death, the Beatles realized that they weren’t nearly as rich as they’d assumed (not because of any dishonesty on Epstein’s part, but because he was a novice as you say), so they kinda panicked and started to look for someone who could guarantee that they’d be rich;

    2) enter Allen Klein, The Rolling Stones’s manager. who was selected as new manager by 3/4 of the Beatles, but McCartney detested him, distrusted him (probably with good reason), and never really accepted his authority. McCartney tried to have his wife’s father and brother, the Eastmans, installed as the managers, which went over with the band about as well as you’d expect. They were briefly hired as the band’s attorneys, but Klein quickly blocked them out.

    3) the incessant bickering between Paul and the other Beatles related to management issues, together with Paul’s efforts to make himself the de facto manager, dimmed everyone’s enthusiasm for the band (except for Paul’s), and John’s enthusiasm had already been dimming since at least 1966.

    Yoko certainly didn’t help, but if I had to assign a “proximate cause” to the Beatles’ breakup, I’d say it was Epstein’s death and their subsequent failure to agree on a replacement.

  189. @pirelli
    @Spangel226

    Elliott Smith was one of the best songwriters of the 90s and early 2000s, which was a heyday for gloomy white dudes with acoustic guitars writing thoughtful and interesting tunes (think Jeff Tweedy, Jeff Buckley, Ben Gibbard, Ryan Adams, and Conor Oberst).

    His melodies and chord structures are complex and hauntingly beautiful. That said, his music is a bit of downer, to put it mildly. I listened to him all the time as a morose teenager in the mid-2000s, but I rarely listen to him anymore. There’s a reason Wes Anderson chose Elliott Smith as the music for Richie Tenenbaum’s attempted suicide scene. And of course there’s Elliott Smith’s incredibly depressing life story as well.

    Replies: @prosa123, @slumber_j, @Stan Adams

    My wife and I and our teenage children are huge Elliott Smith fans. It doesn’t matter that his songs are a bummer, which they definitely are: great songs are great songs.

    “The Moon is a sickle cell / It will kill you in time”

    Then in another song: “While the Moon does its division / You’re buried below / And you’re coming up roses” etc.

  190. New New York gun control bill includes beefed-up body armor ban

    Albany Democrats want to further restrict the sale of body armor weeks after passing similar legislation that fell short of banning the steel-plated gear used by a racist gunman as he allegedly massacred people at a Buffalo supermarket.

    The body armor ban is part of a sweeping gun control package passed by the state Senate on Friday as part of a special session called by Gov. Kathy Hochul following the US Supreme Court striking down century-old restrictions on carrying concealed weapons in the Empire State.

    “This will prevent criminals from being more reckless, even more emboldened, and hopefully lessen the damage that these kinds of people will provide because our feeling is that we can’t stop all the shootings,” Assemblyman Jonathan Jacobs (D-Newburgh), the bill’s sponsor, told The Post. “The least we can do is take away the criminals’ protection.”

    The state Assembly was expected to pass the legislation and send it to Hochul’s desk later Friday or early Saturday.

    Members of law enforcement and the military will receive exemptions from the ban, as will other professions to be designated by the state.

    Violators could face up to a year in jail, probation or fines, with additional felony penalties for repeat offenders.

    The new law is expected to cause serious collateral damage to the bottom line of businesses like 221B Tactical in Midtown.

    “I don’t see any issue with people buying body armor because they have an intention to commit a crime,” 221B co-owner Brad Pedell said Friday. “I think that’s the wrong way to look at it, but as a reseller, what am I going to do? I’m going to obey the law.”

    https://nypost.com/2022/07/01/new-new-york-gun-control-bill-includes-beefed-up-body-armor-ban/

    LOL. New Yorkers are so stupid that will REELECT every bozo that voted to make them vulnerable to the bullets of criminals and government alike.

    Just as stupid as Chicagoans!

  191. @Anonymous
    @ScarletNumber

    I am a fan of Billy Joel and I have seen him in concert multiple times.

    He had one great song and some enjoyable ones. Great one is "Just the Way You Are".

    "Uptown Girl" is a fun variation on what Four Seasons did best.

    But his later stuff is just terrible, especially "We can start a fire".

    He really belongs in Broadway and is closer in sensibility to Streisand, also true of Neil Diamond, who was far more talented.

    PS. Gary Lewis, son of Jerry, was Jewish. How about Al Kooper of Blood, Sweat, and Tears?

    Mike Bloomfield learned to play the blues pretty good.

    I think the Dead and Phish(awful) had some Jewish guys.

    How many big homos are there in rock?

    Replies: @Whereismyhandle, @slumber_j, @Art Deco

    “Uptown Girl” is a fun variation on what Four Seasons did best”

    Great bit from the most underrated comedy of the last 30 years:

  192. @International Jew
    Why so few Jewish rock stars? Good question, in view of the fact Jews are well represented in adjacent fields such as lyric writing and classical music performance.

    What talents exactly does it take to be a rock star? What with all the electronic enhancement, do you need much technical prowess?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @njguy73

    What talents exactly does it take to be a rock star?

    To be a Neanderthal.

  193. @Giant Duck
    "David Lee Roth lights the menorah..."

    Replies: @Mr. Grey

    David Lee Roth was definitely a big rock star at one time, bigger than some on that list. (Iggy Pop is great, but he was never mainstream, at least not until later on when he sold his music for TV commercials.)

  194. @NC
    Obviously David Lee Roth. I would expect jews and italians are overrepresented among 80's hair bands, because of the showbiz "make money and have fun" ethos of the genre and its roots in LA. It takes a contrarian and gloomy nordic type like Kurt Cobain to turn being the biggest rock star in the world into something profoundly depressing. There's also the huge cultural and economic shift from the 80s to 90s as genx took over from later boomers. The America of the 90s was finally ready to listen to a mentally ill man sing about his guns and lithium prescription.

    Replies: @John Milton’s Ghost

    Nearly every hair band from the 80s had at least one Italian American in it. The Italians probably had sisters who taught their band mates how to do their hair.

    John Bon Jovi was Bonjiovi.
    Steven Tyler was Tallarico.
    And so on …

  195. @Corvinus
    Only an extremely small segment of the American population cares which rock stars are Jewish. In other words, it’s wasted digital ink.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @SunBakedSuburb

    In other words, it’s wasted digital ink.

    Much like your commenting oeuvre.

    • Thanks: Redneck farmer
  196. @Blodgie
    David Lee Roth
    Alice Cooper

    Replies: @John Milton’s Ghost

    Alice Cooper comes from Pentecostal stock. He does have the nose though…

  197. Similar question – besides Tom Jones, who was not a rock star, how many super-popular non-classical musicians in recent generations got married young and stayed married?

    It is all about the incentives.

  198. @the one they call Desanex
    There’s Simon and Garfunkel, Howard Kaylan of the Turtles (Volman was half-Jewish), Neil Diamond, Mama Cass, Eric Bloom of BOC, Amy Winehouse, and, of course, Donald Fagen of Steely Dan. Fagen is my #1 Jewish rock star. Does Jerry Garcia count? He looked Jewish, and his parents named him after Jerome Kern.

    Replies: @the one they call Desanex, @Art Deco, @Anon, @bomag, @Emil Nikola Richard, @MEH 0910

    Simon and Garfunkel is more folk-acoustic.

    • Replies: @the one they call Desanex
    @Art Deco

    Simon and Garfunkel are “rock” enough for me. Hell, I’d even include Lesley Gore as rock, I’m no stickler. Casey Kasem would probably include them in “The Top 40 Jewish Acts of the Rock Era.”

    Replies: @Anonymous

  199. @pirelli
    @Spangel226

    Elliott Smith was one of the best songwriters of the 90s and early 2000s, which was a heyday for gloomy white dudes with acoustic guitars writing thoughtful and interesting tunes (think Jeff Tweedy, Jeff Buckley, Ben Gibbard, Ryan Adams, and Conor Oberst).

    His melodies and chord structures are complex and hauntingly beautiful. That said, his music is a bit of downer, to put it mildly. I listened to him all the time as a morose teenager in the mid-2000s, but I rarely listen to him anymore. There’s a reason Wes Anderson chose Elliott Smith as the music for Richie Tenenbaum’s attempted suicide scene. And of course there’s Elliott Smith’s incredibly depressing life story as well.

    Replies: @prosa123, @slumber_j, @Stan Adams

    A year after the Columbine massacre the school’s (white) star basketball player hanged himself in his garage. He set “Adam’s Song” by Blink-182 on auto-repeat. When his father came home he found his dead son dangling from a rope with the CD player still blaring.

    Not a fan.

  200. @Anonymous
    @ScarletNumber

    I am a fan of Billy Joel and I have seen him in concert multiple times.

    He had one great song and some enjoyable ones. Great one is "Just the Way You Are".

    "Uptown Girl" is a fun variation on what Four Seasons did best.

    But his later stuff is just terrible, especially "We can start a fire".

    He really belongs in Broadway and is closer in sensibility to Streisand, also true of Neil Diamond, who was far more talented.

    PS. Gary Lewis, son of Jerry, was Jewish. How about Al Kooper of Blood, Sweat, and Tears?

    Mike Bloomfield learned to play the blues pretty good.

    I think the Dead and Phish(awful) had some Jewish guys.

    How many big homos are there in rock?

    Replies: @Whereismyhandle, @slumber_j, @Art Deco

    How many big homos are there in rock?

    Freddie Mercury obviously: bonus Zoroastrian from Zanzibar. Elton John, also obviously. Judas Priest guy: Rob Halford. (A very funny line from the great mini-doc Heavy Metal Parking Lot is a teenage chick exclaiming of Halford: “I’d jump his bones!”) Probably a bunch of other big-time showmen in that mold.

  201. I’m right here, Steve!

  202. @Tono Bungay
    Randy Newman may indeed be "generally terrible." All I remember is his earliest albums, which had some excellent things, among which is the incomparable "Political Science."

    Replies: @Wade Hampton, @WJ

    Randy Newman is wholly wonderful, but he is a balladeer like Dylan. Neither are rockers.

    • Agree: Curle
    • Replies: @Curle
    @Wade Hampton

    I almost stopped reading at this particular admission of bad taste: “the generally terrible Randy Newman.”

    Replies: @Wade Hampton

    , @Sorel McRae
    @Wade Hampton

    He may be just a balladeer but Randy Newman sure hated White people! Here are the lyrics to "Rednecks":

    Last night, I saw Lester Maddox on a TV show
    With some smart ass New York Jew
    And the Jew laughed at Lester Maddox
    And the audience laughed at Lester Maddox too
    Well, he may be a fool, but he's our fool
    If they think they're better than him, they're wrong
    So I went to the park, and I took some paper along
    And that's where I made this song

    We talk real funny down here
    We drink too much and we laugh too loud
    We're too dumb to make it in no Northern town
    We're keepin' the niggers down

    We got no-necked oilmen from Texas
    Good ol' boys from Tennessee
    College men from LSU
    Went in dumb, come out dumb too
    Hustlin' 'round Atlanta in their alligator shoes
    Gettin' drunk every weekend at the barbecues
    They're keepin' the niggers down

    We're rednecks, rednecks
    We don't know our ass from a hole in the ground
    We're rednecks, we're rednecks
    We're keeping the niggers down


    Now, your northern nigga's a Negro
    You see, he's got his dignity
    Down here, we too ignorant to realize
    That the North has set the nigga free

    Yes, he's free to be put in a cage
    In Harlem in New York City
    And he's free to be put in a cage on the South-Side of Chicago
    And the West-Side
    And he's free to be put in a cage in Hough in Cleveland
    And he's free to be put in a cage in East St. Louis
    And he's free to be put in a cage in Fillmore in San Francisco
    And he's free to be put in a cage in Roxbury in Boston

    They're gatherin' 'em up from miles around
    Keepin' the niggers down

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Curle

  203. @Anonymous
    Steely Dan very Jewish.

    Graham Parker Jewish?

    Paul Anka and Neil Sedaka.

    Leslie Gore Jewish?

    Recently, Amy Swinehouse was big before she croaked.

    One thing for sure, rock music got less witty and cerebral over the years.

    Brill Building and the like had Jewish composers who didn't themselves become stars.

    Replies: @Bourne, @Art Deco

    Lesley Gore had seven hit singles over a four year period and made a modest living touring for decades. She had no children and never had a problem with liquor or drugs, nor any known history of psychiatric hospitalizations. Her estate at the time of her death was worth less than \$100,000. Her father was a capable businessman, but his lawyers evidently did not know how to negotiate with record labels.

  204. In addition to Dee Snyder of Twisted Sister, whom some have already called out as half Jewish, his fellow band mate JJ French is Jewish, and perhaps stereotypically handled the money and business side of the band management.

    Many have called out the lasting members of KISS, Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons. The latter was so Jewish that the first time he saw a picture of Santa Claus he thought it was a rabbi! Also stereotypically, the two Jewish members of the band have excessively monetized the KISS brand, and shut out the original goyim members, Peter Criss and Ace Frehley. To be fair, the gentile rockers’ drug use had something to do with that too.

    French, Snyder, Simmons, and Stanley were all notable in the rock world for being teetotalers (or nearly so), and for being very focused on marketing their bands. So there’s that.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @John Milton’s Ghost

    The latter was so Jewish that the first time he saw a picture of Santa Claus he thought it was a rabbi!

    That's just because he was Israeli, not because he was Jewish. I doubt an Egyptian of the same vintage would known any better of Santa.

  205. @Anonymous
    @ScarletNumber

    I am a fan of Billy Joel and I have seen him in concert multiple times.

    He had one great song and some enjoyable ones. Great one is "Just the Way You Are".

    "Uptown Girl" is a fun variation on what Four Seasons did best.

    But his later stuff is just terrible, especially "We can start a fire".

    He really belongs in Broadway and is closer in sensibility to Streisand, also true of Neil Diamond, who was far more talented.

    PS. Gary Lewis, son of Jerry, was Jewish. How about Al Kooper of Blood, Sweat, and Tears?

    Mike Bloomfield learned to play the blues pretty good.

    I think the Dead and Phish(awful) had some Jewish guys.

    How many big homos are there in rock?

    Replies: @Whereismyhandle, @slumber_j, @Art Deco

    He had one great song and some enjoyable ones. Great one is “Just the Way You Are”.

    Disagree. Two or three fine songs, and not that one: “Allentown”, “Scenes from an Italian Restaurant”, and “All About Soul”.

  206. @Art Deco
    @the one they call Desanex

    Simon and Garfunkel is more folk-acoustic.

    Replies: @the one they call Desanex

    Simon and Garfunkel are “rock” enough for me. Hell, I’d even include Lesley Gore as rock, I’m no stickler. Casey Kasem would probably include them in “The Top 40 Jewish Acts of the Rock Era.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @the one they call Desanex


    Hell, I’d even include Lesley Gore as rock, I’m no stickler.
     
    Love Lesley Gore, so I say sure, why not. The more, the merrier.

    Modern music journos would doubtless say even trying to define rock is nothing but pernicious, gatekeeping rockism anyway. And probably sexist and anti-queer to boot. So I nominate Paula Abdul! Poptimism all around.

    More seriously, I can't remember if Obama classmate and Steve's favorite Runaway Jackie Fox is Jewish? Fuchs is a name carried by both Jews and gentiles, but she is a Merit scholar, a lawyer, and related to the founder of Castle Rock Entertainment...

    Replies: @kaganovitch

  207. @Art Deco
    @Reg Cæsar

    And how can we forget Mama Cass?

    After 1968, her repertoire was popular, but not rock. Billy Joel also is not properly classified as a rock musician, though he was a Top 40 performer at his peak. Bob Dylan is more in the realm of folk-acoustic than rock.

    While we're at it, this is a stupid topic.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @Cool Shoes, @Reg Cæsar

    Just think, if Mama Cass had only shared that ham sandwich with Karen Carpenter, they might both be alive today…

    • LOL: Adam Smith
  208. @Buzz Mohawk
    Their managers and record company execs are the more heavily Jewish ones. Hey, give those guys some credit for bringing you your tunes.

    #1 Brian Epstein, manager of the Beatles:


    https://i2-prod.liverpoolecho.co.uk/incoming/article6292472.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/zzdti74229.jpg

    Replies: @SFG, @anon, @Anon, @Richard B

    Hey, give those guys some credit for bringing you your tunes.

    More like:
    Give those guys credit for making it impossible to get your tunes any other way.

    • Thanks: Angharad
  209. @International Jew
    Why so few Jewish rock stars? Good question, in view of the fact Jews are well represented in adjacent fields such as lyric writing and classical music performance.

    What talents exactly does it take to be a rock star? What with all the electronic enhancement, do you need much technical prowess?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @njguy73

    There is not now, nor has their ever been, a Jewish rock star. There have, however, been any number of Jewish entrepreneurs who work in the Rock medium.

    Gene Simmons was born Chaim Witz in Israel in 1949. If, on the day he was born, you put him in a time machine and sent him to California in 1999, he’d be an app developer today.

    • LOL: ScarletNumber
  210. @SunBakedSuburb
    @UES guy

    Is Geddy Lee on that Wikipedia list of Jewish rockers? If he's not then it's time to take a hammer to your computer.

    Replies: @UES guy

    Yep, Geddy is on the list. It occurred to me that I might search the comparable Wikipedia list of “rock musicians,” to get an objective denominator for the Jewish percentage (of Wiki-level famous rockers), but they’re broken out by too many subgenres. Maybe Steve wants to take a crack at it!

  211. Next to Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen, Simon and Garfunkel are the quintessential Jewish Rockers if you can call them that. They did plagiarize some of their music, but not all of it.

    Their music served as the backdrop for the thinly veiled Jewish-in-America allegory The Graduate.

  212. Danny Elfman on the other hand…

  213. @kahein
    lol gentile concern-trolling. i mean, is this for real?

    besides the huge obvious ones, how about:

    warren zevon (half)
    donald fagen/walter becker
    perry farrell
    mike bloomfield/al kooper
    dave mustaine (jewish mother)
    david lee roth / sammy hagar
    fucking slash lol
    peter green (fleetwood mac)
    scott ian (anthrax)
    adam horovitz / adam yauch
    jonathan richman
    christ stein (blondie)
    tom verlaine (nee, miller), richard hell (nee, myers)
    the ramones / the dictators / the circle jerks
    gene ween
    dave berman, yo

    Replies: @Bourne, @Anon

    LMFAO Jewish cope. Is this for real? Idk if Sammy Hagar is jewish btw, he might be one of those gentiles that people assume is Jewish but isn’t actually. Jews trying to get away with Stolen Valor!

    No but seriously Jewish achievement in Rock and Roll is a lot lower than Jewish achievement in many other fields. no need to feel all that inferior, just feel a little bit inferior.

    • Replies: @Matt Buckalew
    @Anon

    When Uncle Avi can’t get you the internship all of sudden for no reason at all Jews looked mediocre. Good thing they are such stoics.

  214. Simon and Garfunkel, Carole King, Lou Reed, some of Jefferson Airplane, Beastie Boys. Apparently the great Paul Westerberg is not, despite the name. Bette Midler? Maybe the problem is that Jewish creativity is mostly smart-ass irony and rock takes itself very seriously.

    • Replies: @Ganderson
    @Tom Scarlett

    Westerberg sounds like a more Scandinavian, probably Swedish name. Not surprising given where he grew up. Kinda like the episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry fires his divorce lawyer Berg after he found out he wasn’t a Jew.

    Replies: @Abe

    , @Another Steve
    @Tom Scarlett

    Westerberg is Jewish, but married a got and more or less abandoned the tribe. If you know The Replacements’ history it all kind of makes sense.

    From Paul Westerberg’s live journal circa 2003:

    “Just a little side note, in case you haven't come this "conclusion," I didn't start celebrating Christmas until I met the wife, as Westerberg is a very Jewish name and I have a very Jewish nose. I grew up only experiencing Hanukkah and when I hit about 25, she had turned me around.“

    (westerberg-paul dot livejournal dot com)

  215. O T is this the place to announce the loss of my social media history in a tragic upstate New York kayak misadventure?

  216. By the way….

    One guy correlated the average standardized test (ACT/SAT) scores for various universities against the favorite music artists of those attending said schools, based on social media profiles. This is a visualization of the results:

  217. Great topic for iSteve here.

    The Jewdar is strong among commentators.

    Some likey, some not.

    And boomer rock and roll (and adjacent).

    So, without bothering with annoying charts and graphs, looks like plenty o’ Jews in rock, and of course music business in general.

    Now let’s look at the string section in major orchestras…

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Muggles

    "Now let's look at the string section in major orchestras ..."

    The Yellow Peril.

  218. Another take ….

    • Replies: @Somsel
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Oh, essentially Apollonian vs. Dynesian?

    This just gives current detail to Nietsche's scheme of art.

  219. @onetwothree
    Yeah, you're missing some, though "star" is maybe an iffy factor. Peter Green, members from the J Geils Band, Blue Oyster Cult. Dylan's various co-musicians tended to have a Jewish tint. Mike Bloomfield, Al Kooper, Robbie Robertson. And don't forget Geddy Lee, who has kind of a funny voice and I forgot about him until checking out this useful source:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_rock_musicians

    ...damn that page is really stretching the truth. (Do Jews do that? Stretch the truth?) Danny Elfman? A rock musician?

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @alaska3636, @SunBakedSuburb, @Dave Pinsen

    “And don’t forget …”

    Warren Zevon. His father, a sketchy guy, a bit of a small-time gangster — was Jewish. I can’t recall from a biography of Zevon that I’d read whether his mother was Jewish. Something about her being a cocktail waitress his father met in a Chicago nightclub. But the Zevon book rests in my LA storage locker and that’s so far away. Anyway, Zevon was an ace lyricist, up there with Dylan, Townshend, Peart, Keenan.

  220. @John Milton’s Ghost
    In addition to Dee Snyder of Twisted Sister, whom some have already called out as half Jewish, his fellow band mate JJ French is Jewish, and perhaps stereotypically handled the money and business side of the band management.

    Many have called out the lasting members of KISS, Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons. The latter was so Jewish that the first time he saw a picture of Santa Claus he thought it was a rabbi! Also stereotypically, the two Jewish members of the band have excessively monetized the KISS brand, and shut out the original goyim members, Peter Criss and Ace Frehley. To be fair, the gentile rockers’ drug use had something to do with that too.

    French, Snyder, Simmons, and Stanley were all notable in the rock world for being teetotalers (or nearly so), and for being very focused on marketing their bands. So there’s that.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    The latter was so Jewish that the first time he saw a picture of Santa Claus he thought it was a rabbi!

    That’s just because he was Israeli, not because he was Jewish. I doubt an Egyptian of the same vintage would known any better of Santa.

  221. @Corvinus
    Only an extremely small segment of the American population cares which rock stars are Jewish. In other words, it’s wasted digital ink.

    Replies: @Stan Adams, @SunBakedSuburb

    “In other words, it’s wasted digital ink.”

    Depressed because Pride month is over? Take heart, Corvy: Every month is Pride month at the Roy Disney’s Daughter’s Corporation. Btw: Why did you homosexuals allow your mainstreaming effort to be co-opted by the transgender miasma?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Homosexuals are your cup of tea(bagging), my Jewish friend.

  222. Anon[214] • Disclaimer says:

    I was surprised to find out that Paul Westerberg of the Replacements was Jewish, or rather a Jewish mutt with other strains. He wrote on an old livejournal, “I didn’t start celebrating Christmas until I met the wife, as Westerberg is a very Jewish name and I have a very Jewish nose. I grew up only experiencing Hanukkah and when I hit about 25, she had turned me around.”

    One of his sisters, who was a DJ, looks like a female version of Fred Armisen.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    I was surprised to find out that Paul Westerberg of the Replacements was Jewish...
     
    So am I. Many -bergs are Scandinavian, and he's from America's Scandinavian capital. The Wahlbergs of Massachusetts grew up Catholic, why wouldn't the Westerbergs of Minnesota?

    Westerberg did tell Spin that he was brought up Catholic:


    SPIN (to Westerberg; the others are trying to get the bartender’s attention for round two): Are you Jewish?
    WESTERBERG: No. I’m mostly Austrian.

    SPIN: Are you Catholic?
    WESTERBERG: Yeah.

    SPIN: That explains a lot. Did you go to mass [sic] when you were a kid?
    WESTERBERG: Not religiously.

    https://www.spin.com/2019/11/the-replacements-dont-tell-a-soul-april-1989-interview-they-might-be-giants/

     

    Actually, that is just as strange for a Swede as Jewish would be. (The Gyllenhaals and Scarlett Johanssen were brought up Jewish, thanks to their moms.)

    Austrian makes sense; a lot of them settled in St Paul. And no one can deny that their race is musical! The only regularly-scheduled orchestral Mass-- as a Mass, with babies crying in the pews, not a "performance"-- in the US is at the Tyrolean-founded Church of Saint Agnes in St Paul. (26 orchestral, 26 chant, and orchestral at Christmas and Easter.) On the ceiling, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are blond and blue-eyed.

    I don't know who Michael Corcoran is, but in the interview above...

    Westerberg tells him he couldn't afford NRBQ at his wedding. (Rush Limbaugh could afford Elton John at his. Elton writes about it in his well-indexed autobio. In his words, he doesn't come cheap.)

    One of that band suddenly shows up at the bar. As an aside to his readers, Corcoran explains, "For the uninformed, NRBQ is kinda like a Grateful Dead with talent."

    That's the smartest thing I've ever seen said about either band. For decades, I've told people the Q was the East Coast, urban, pub crawl, fun counterpart to the Dead. Someone agrees!

  223. @Muggles
    Great topic for iSteve here.

    The Jewdar is strong among commentators.

    Some likey, some not.

    And boomer rock and roll (and adjacent).

    So, without bothering with annoying charts and graphs, looks like plenty o' Jews in rock, and of course music business in general.

    Now let's look at the string section in major orchestras...

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    “Now let’s look at the string section in major orchestras …”

    The Yellow Peril.

  224. Anonymous[253] • Disclaimer says:

    I love how one half of this thread is people listing a large number of Jewish rock stars, and the other half is people trying to come up with reasons for the “underrepresentation”.

    People really tend to forget Jews are only 2.5% of the US population, less than 1.5% of Canada, and some 0.5% of the UK. And that’s with Haredim included.

    There’s no underrepresentation here. Quite the opposite.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
    • Thanks: kahein
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Anonymous

    'There’s no underrepresentation here. Quite the opposite.'

    Perhaps. But the extent to which Jews are overrepresented varies spectacularly from field to field.

  225. Eric Carmen – Russian Jewish immigrant family.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @James Speaks

    Norman "Friend in Jesus" Greenbaum

    https://youtu.be/xi_3GtQN2IA

  226. @Art Deco
    @Reg Cæsar

    And how can we forget Mama Cass?

    After 1968, her repertoire was popular, but not rock. Billy Joel also is not properly classified as a rock musician, though he was a Top 40 performer at his peak. Bob Dylan is more in the realm of folk-acoustic than rock.

    While we're at it, this is a stupid topic.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @Cool Shoes, @Reg Cæsar

    And how can we forget Mama Cass?

    After 1968, her repertoire was popular, but not rock.

    It’s said that the line “No one’s gettin’ fat ‘cept Mama Cass” in the autobiographical* “Creeque Alley” refers to her making good money singing side gigs at bar mitzvahs while her bandmates were starving. I don’t know if this has been verified, but it’s both more plausible and less insulting than the more literal and common assumption. You’d assume she was singing standards at these events.

    The closest to her in style at the time was Elaine “Spanky” McFarlane of Spanky and Our Gang. (At least two popular acts of the late 1960s were named for Buckwheat’s bros.) When the Papas regrouped to tour decades later, it was the perfect touch to invite Spanky to fill Cass’s slot. Laura Mackenzie Phillips took her stepmom’s place.

    Strange-but-true fact: Scott Mackenzie was named (by Papa John) after Laura, not vice versa.

    While we’re at it, this is a stupid topic.

    Granted, but it’s smart-adjacent. Ethnomusicology is a fascinating subject, and wholly legitimate. Steve is just slumming here.

    *Is it “autobiographical” if it’s about a group? Is there some Greek plural prefix that’s more appropriate?

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @Reg Cæsar


    Is it “autobiographical” if it’s about a group?
     
    I'm going to say yes, and it's a popular enough genre where I can name a number of songs in the same vein:

    • Bad Company - Shooting Star
    • Boston - Rock & Roll Band
    • Creedence Clearwater Revival - Lodi
    • Jackson Browne - The Load-Out
    • Foreigner - Jukebox Hero
    • Billy Joel - The Entertainer
    • Mötley Crüe - Home Sweet Home
    • Britney Spears - Lucky

    That's just off the top of my head; I'm sure the others can name a dozen more

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  227. @prosa123
    @pirelli

    And of course there’s Elliott Smith’s incredibly depressing life story as well.

    There are many questions about his death, whether it was murder or suicide.

    Replies: @Anon

    I’ve read his autopsy report, and judging from that alone, it was murder.

    • Replies: @Angharad
    @Anon

    Looks like Chiba did it. FYI Asian Caucasian hybrids tend to suffer a high proportion of mental illness, since the gene expression goes in polar opposite directions. Chiba must be very well connected. It doesn't seem like the authorities were interested in investigating a homicide at all.

  228. Beach Boys to Moody Blues to ABBA to Everything but the Girl to Peter White (smooth jazz).

    We may have traveled different routes.

  229. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Peter Akuleyev

    "Geddy Lee is more niche than we Rush fans like to admit."

    Rush is a niche band. An incredibly successful niche band. But not with the ladies. I've been to several Rush concerts: a sea of white male faces. A lot of guys there with their sons. Nary a jackass to be found. Camaraderie fills the air. Great live music experiences. Now that Rush is gone, Tool has become the white male bonding band. Most chix don't dig Tool either.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Anonymous, @Abe

    All you have to do is listen to the audience cheering from Rush’s live album Exit Stage Left and compare to a live track from pretty much any other popular rock band from that period. You’ll notice the cheering is about 2 octaves lower on ESL.

    Tool is sort of a combination of Rush and Pink Floyd in the sense of wild time signatures/arrangements and extended pieces of music that are very repetitious.

  230. @Tom Scarlett
    Simon and Garfunkel, Carole King, Lou Reed, some of Jefferson Airplane, Beastie Boys. Apparently the great Paul Westerberg is not, despite the name. Bette Midler? Maybe the problem is that Jewish creativity is mostly smart-ass irony and rock takes itself very seriously.

    Replies: @Ganderson, @Another Steve

    Westerberg sounds like a more Scandinavian, probably Swedish name. Not surprising given where he grew up. Kinda like the episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry fires his divorce lawyer Berg after he found out he wasn’t a Jew.

    • Replies: @Abe
    @Ganderson


    Maybe the problem is that Jewish creativity is mostly smart-ass irony and rock takes itself very seriously.
     
    B-B-B-INGO!

    Anyone else remember post-grunge “It Boy” Beck? Half-quarter-whatever Jewish. Rock seemed very much alive and healthy in the 2000’s, but turned out acts like WHITE STRIPES, BLACK KEYS, ARCADE FIRE and, yes, BECK were not so much part of a vital and lasting cultural movement as the advertising soundtrack and/or loss leader for selling more iPods.

    Yet that did not stop FUTURAMA from giving Beck this tongue-bath, heralding him as some sort of 2nd coming of Dylan-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoflPE5pvY&t=146s

    Beck’s “reinvention” of genres was basically just more of said non-serious [email protected], a great example being his dead-serious-no-not-really R&B spoof song DEBRA.

    There have been some major Jewish rock stars as noted by others, but it is not at all a natural fit, as the quintessential Jewish yuckster/take-nothing-too-seriously personality (which at its worst devolves into a sort of cynical schlockmeistery) is generally unable to cope with either of rock’s two great modes- too intellectually self-regarding and unbelieving to attain rock unguarded transcendence (STAIRWAY), too self-aware and premeditated to even partake of any of rock’s innocent barbarism and aggression (BROWN SUGAR, pretty much any AC/DC song).

    Replies: @Che Guava, @Che Guava

  231. @James Speaks
    Eric Carmen - Russian Jewish immigrant family.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    Norman “Friend in Jesus” Greenbaum

  232. @Charlesz Martel
    Also Jewish-Neil Diamond, Herb Alpert of both the Tijuana Brass and A&M Records, the guy who discovered Dylan (forgot his name)and tons of songwriters in the old days.

    The Gershwins alone are worth more than 75% of the Rock Musicians in the world, combined, in my view.

    Replies: @Boo Alcindor, @ScarletNumber

    Albert Hammond.

  233. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Corvinus

    "In other words, it's wasted digital ink."

    Depressed because Pride month is over? Take heart, Corvy: Every month is Pride month at the Roy Disney's Daughter's Corporation. Btw: Why did you homosexuals allow your mainstreaming effort to be co-opted by the transgender miasma?

    Replies: @Corvinus

    Homosexuals are your cup of tea(bagging), my Jewish friend.

  234. @Anon
    I was surprised to find out that Paul Westerberg of the Replacements was Jewish, or rather a Jewish mutt with other strains. He wrote on an old livejournal, "I didn't start celebrating Christmas until I met the wife, as Westerberg is a very Jewish name and I have a very Jewish nose. I grew up only experiencing Hanukkah and when I hit about 25, she had turned me around."

    One of his sisters, who was a DJ, looks like a female version of Fred Armisen.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I was surprised to find out that Paul Westerberg of the Replacements was Jewish…

    So am I. Many -bergs are Scandinavian, and he’s from America’s Scandinavian capital. The Wahlbergs of Massachusetts grew up Catholic, why wouldn’t the Westerbergs of Minnesota?

    Westerberg did tell Spin that he was brought up Catholic:

    SPIN (to Westerberg; the others are trying to get the bartender’s attention for round two): Are you Jewish?
    WESTERBERG: No. I’m mostly Austrian.

    SPIN: Are you Catholic?
    WESTERBERG: Yeah.

    SPIN: That explains a lot. Did you go to mass [sic] when you were a kid?
    WESTERBERG: Not religiously.

    https://www.spin.com/2019/11/the-replacements-dont-tell-a-soul-april-1989-interview-they-might-be-giants/

    Actually, that is just as strange for a Swede as Jewish would be. (The Gyllenhaals and Scarlett Johanssen were brought up Jewish, thanks to their moms.)

    Austrian makes sense; a lot of them settled in St Paul. And no one can deny that their race is musical! The only regularly-scheduled orchestral Mass– as a Mass, with babies crying in the pews, not a “performance”– in the US is at the Tyrolean-founded Church of Saint Agnes in St Paul. (26 orchestral, 26 chant, and orchestral at Christmas and Easter.) On the ceiling, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are blond and blue-eyed.

    I don’t know who Michael Corcoran is, but in the interview above…

    [MORE]

    Westerberg tells him he couldn’t afford NRBQ at his wedding. (Rush Limbaugh could afford Elton John at his. Elton writes about it in his well-indexed autobio. In his words, he doesn’t come cheap.)

    One of that band suddenly shows up at the bar. As an aside to his readers, Corcoran explains, “For the uninformed, NRBQ is kinda like a Grateful Dead with talent.”

    That’s the smartest thing I’ve ever seen said about either band. For decades, I’ve told people the Q was the East Coast, urban, pub crawl, fun counterpart to the Dead. Someone agrees!

  235. Susanna Hoffs of the Bangles is Jewish. I wonder if Walk Like an Egyptian was written for Anwar Sadat 🤔

  236. Anonymous[304] • Disclaimer says:

    Not rock (though he dabbled in it), but since a few other not quite rock musicians have been brought up, I feel like someone should mention Serge Gainsbourg. Not a huge fan of the guy, but feels like he was, if anything, more of a “rock star” than any actual French rock star. I mean, the French rock scene proper was for the most part quite underwhelming, but still.

    At one time, knowing very little about him at the time, I had also just assumed that Alain Bashung was at least part Jewish. But the weird surname is a slightly altered Alsace German one from his stepfather, and the not-quite-French look was from his unknown Algerian father. Plenty of Algerian Jews in France, of course, but his father doesn’t appear to have been one.

  237. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Charon

    1) There were 37 comments up, and I read through them too. Though iSteve has his reasons for moderation, you won't see the comments in moderation at times that appear in the order they were submitted later.

    2) I write in jest a lot. I wasn't really mad at the commenters - I just do agree Rush should be up in the list.

    3) I don't need your advice. Thanks, anyway.

    4) I just had to learn that your "misspelled" wasn't misspelt. You learn something new every day.

    5) Quit writing to me, a-hole.

    Replies: @Charon

    Quit writing to me, a-hole.

    Try this. Quit writing 20,000 words a day on this one blog alone. And quit using it as a vehicle for flogging your own, which absolutely no one cares about. Free advice! HTH.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Charon

    [Out of the office/Automated reply:]

    Don't like it? Tough shit.

    Replies: @Charon

  238. @bws92082
    If 'Bang the Gong' is awesome, 'Spirit In The Sky' by Norman Greenbaum (a Jewish gospel songwriter believe it or not) is awesomeness squared.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZQxH_8raCI

    Interesting story behind that song:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_in_the_Sky

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Satanic6Music6Industry6

    If ‘Bang the Gong’ is awesome, ‘Spirit In The Sky’ by Norman Greenbaum (a Jewish gospel songwriter believe it or not) is awesomeness squared.

    I won’t disagree, but it is also cluelessness squared. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was innocently trying to ape the gospel tradition rather than to mock it. But it included the most un-Christian lyric imaginable:

    Never been a sinner, I never sinned…

    Bloody hell, that goes against the very core of the faith! I caught that as a slovenly junior high student, so why didn’t everyone else? How poorly catechized were rockers? Again, I can forgive Greenbaum himself, but who was in the studio with him? Who published it? Was everybody stoned?

    Some gospel-rockers have adopted, and adapted, the song by rewriting the offending line.

    • Replies: @Abe
    @Reg Cæsar



    If ‘Bang the Gong’ is awesome, ‘Spirit In The Sky’ by Norman Greenbaum (a Jewish gospel songwriter believe it or not) is awesomeness squared.
     
    I won’t disagree, but it is also cluelessness squared. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was innocently trying to ape the gospel tradition rather than to mock it.
     
    What are your thoughts on WALKING IN MEMPHIS?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Reg Cæsar

  239. Lots of comments but none seem to have mentioned The Mael brothers of Sparks. Surely they are Jewish?

    Also, Sylvain Sylvain and Johnny Thunders (half-Jewish) of New York Dolls.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Ola


    Also, Sylvain Sylvain and Johnny Thunders (half-Jewish) of New York Dolls.
     
    A rare Sephardic on the list. Him and Sedaka, of the people mentioned. Can't think of any others off the top of my head.
  240. @Sollipsist
    @Fidelios Automata

    Zappa was Italian with some Sicilian Arab ancestry. As far as anyone knows, there isn't anything Jewish about him.

    Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax

    I had assumed Zappa was jewish well into my 30’s. I think it was because he looked it–in that way many Italians do ala John Torturro–and he had intellectual pretense about him as well as being satirical, and apropos the jewish rock press, he was highly regarded by critics. But I think mainly it’s the strange inability (for me) to ethnically place his last name. Whenever I hear a weird last name and everything else seems to point in that direction, I assume the name got chopped/changed somewhere between Minsk and Ellis Island.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Malcolm X-Lax

    Frank Zappa sounds like an Americanized version of Franz Kafka.

    Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax, @Joe Paluka

  241. Anonymous[817] • Disclaimer says:
    @Haxo Angmark
    Micky Dolenz (Monkees). Whose daughter Amy later displayed in Playboy.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    No, unless there was Jewish somewhere on his mother’s side. His father was an ethnic Slovene, born Jure Dolenc.

  242. @Hapalong Cassidy
    I would wager that Adam Levine of Maroon 5 is by far the most popular Jewish rock star. The term “rock” defined rather loosely of course.

    Replies: @Jay Fink, @Paul Jolliffe

    Levine may be popular, but Donald Fagen of Steely Dan is more accomplished.

  243. @G. Poulin
    As far as I can tell, Brian Epstein was an honest manager of the Beatles. Didn't steal their money. His problem was that he was a novice in the business, and didn't always get the best deals for his clients.

    Replies: @pirelli

    I think the best single answer to the question of “why did the Beatles break up” is that they never filled the vacuum created by Epstein’s death in summer of 67 (just after Sgt Pepper’s).

    1) after Epstein’s death, the Beatles realized that they weren’t nearly as rich as they’d assumed (not because of any dishonesty on Epstein’s part, but because he was a novice as you say), so they kinda panicked and started to look for someone who could guarantee that they’d be rich;

    2) enter Allen Klein, The Rolling Stones’s manager. who was selected as new manager by 3/4 of the Beatles, but McCartney detested him, distrusted him (probably with good reason), and never really accepted his authority. McCartney tried to have his wife’s father and brother, the Eastmans, installed as the managers, which went over with the band about as well as you’d expect. They were briefly hired as the band’s attorneys, but Klein quickly blocked them out.

    3) the incessant bickering between Paul and the other Beatles related to management issues, together with Paul’s efforts to make himself the de facto manager, dimmed everyone’s enthusiasm for the band (except for Paul’s), and John’s enthusiasm had already been dimming since at least 1966.

    Yoko certainly didn’t help, but if I had to assign a “proximate cause” to the Beatles’ breakup, I’d say it was Epstein’s death and their subsequent failure to agree on a replacement.

    • Thanks: Goatweed
  244. Anonymous[384] • Disclaimer says:
    @SunBakedSuburb
    @Peter Akuleyev

    "Geddy Lee is more niche than we Rush fans like to admit."

    Rush is a niche band. An incredibly successful niche band. But not with the ladies. I've been to several Rush concerts: a sea of white male faces. A lot of guys there with their sons. Nary a jackass to be found. Camaraderie fills the air. Great live music experiences. Now that Rush is gone, Tool has become the white male bonding band. Most chix don't dig Tool either.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Anonymous, @Abe

    An incredibly successful niche band. But not with the ladies.

    I remember a female rock band from the 70s being interviewed about experiences touring as women. They had lots of praise for a lot of their male colleagues, but they singled out Rush (along with a British punk band I can’t remember) as by far the most unpleasant and dismissive of all the bands they crossed paths with. Said they were absolutely miserable to interact with.

    Now that Rush is gone, Tool has become the white male bonding band. Most chix don’t dig Tool either.

    Definitely not quite as dramatically so as in the case of Rush, in my experience.

  245. here’s a plaintive early simon/garfunkel rocker about trying to walk unnoticed amongst the savage and monstrous gentile, it’s basically a song the coen bros would have made had they chose music over film

    and yes, it rocks

    • Replies: @Sorel McRae
    @kahein

    Simon and Garfunkel were indeed Jewish and generally ethnocentric but what do you make of their covers of Christian songs like "Go Tell it on the Mountain," "Benedictus," etc.? Or "You can tell the World," which seems to be original?:

    Well, you can tell the world about this
    You can tell the nation about that
    Tell 'em what the master has done
    Tell 'em that the gospel has come
    Tell 'em that the victory's been won
    He brought joy, joy, joy, joy, joy, joy
    Into my heart

    Well, my Lord spoke, he spoke so well
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    Talked about the flames that burn in hell
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    Now, my Lord spoke, he spoke so well
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    Talked about the children of Israel
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    He brought joy, joy, joy into my heart

    Well, you can tell the world about this
    You can tell the nation about that
    Tell 'em what the master has done
    Tell 'em that the gospel has come
    Tell 'em that the victory's been won
    He brought joy, joy, joy, joy, joy, joy
    Into my heart

    Well, my Lord spoke, he spoke to me
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    Talkin' about a man from Galilee
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    My Lord spoke, he spoke to me
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    Talkin' about a man from Galilee
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    He brought joy, joy, joy into my heart

    Well, you can tell the world about this
    You can tell the nation about that
    Tell 'em what the master has done
    Tell 'em that the gospel has come
    Tell 'em that the victory's been won
    He brought joy, joy, joy, joy, joy, joy
    Into my heart

    Well, I don't know but I've been told
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    Streets of heaven are paved with gold
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    Now, the Jordan River is chilly and wide
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    I got a home on the other side
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    He brought joy, joy, joy into my heart

    Well, you can tell the world about this
    You can tell the nation about that
    Tell 'em what the master has done
    Tell 'em that the gospel has come
    Tell 'em that the victory's been won
    He brought joy, joy, joy, joy, joy, joy
    Into my heart

  246. @Jay Fink
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    When I saw Adam Levine on a Superbowl half time show with his buff tattooed body it made me less proud to be Jewish. I realize that's the way rock stars (yeah I know his music is pop not rock) are supposed to look these days. Still traditionally Jewish men were more bookish or nerdish looking than hyper masculine. I liked Woody Allen being representative of Jewish masculinity, not Adam Levine.

    Replies: @Jus' Sayin'...

    … Adam Levine … with his buff tattooed body …

    He for sure won’t be buried in a Jewish cemetery!

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    He for sure won’t be buried in a Jewish cemetery!

    I assume you're joking, but for the uninformed there is no such halachic rule. Tattooing is a violation of Halacha (biblically prohibited per Leviticus 19:28) but does not carry a burial penalty. That said, there may be an individual 'Chevre Kadisha' (burial society) that might not permit it in their burial plots as an organizational rule but there is no such general prohibition.

  247. @Bardon Kaldian
    Another take ....

    https://i.imgur.com/OKzyeY9.jpg

    Replies: @Somsel

    Oh, essentially Apollonian vs. Dynesian?

    This just gives current detail to Nietsche’s scheme of art.

  248. Anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @the one they call Desanex
    @Art Deco

    Simon and Garfunkel are “rock” enough for me. Hell, I’d even include Lesley Gore as rock, I’m no stickler. Casey Kasem would probably include them in “The Top 40 Jewish Acts of the Rock Era.”

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Hell, I’d even include Lesley Gore as rock, I’m no stickler.

    Love Lesley Gore, so I say sure, why not. The more, the merrier.

    Modern music journos would doubtless say even trying to define rock is nothing but pernicious, gatekeeping rockism anyway. And probably sexist and anti-queer to boot. So I nominate Paula Abdul! Poptimism all around.

    More seriously, I can’t remember if Obama classmate and Steve’s favorite Runaway Jackie Fox is Jewish? Fuchs is a name carried by both Jews and gentiles, but she is a Merit scholar, a lawyer, and related to the founder of Castle Rock Entertainment…

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Anonymous

    More seriously, I can’t remember if Obama classmate and Steve’s favorite Runaway Jackie Fox is Jewish?

    According to the Forward she is

    https://forward.com/schmooze/311719/jewish-runaways-bassist-jackie-fox-was-raped-by-producer/

  249. Anonymous[266] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    Tom Robinson of the the Tom Robinson Band.

    Trailblazers of the late 1970s "New Wave" movement in the UK - a term invented by music journos to describe a whole raft of artists who came after the Sex Pistols - edgy but not *too* edgy, a sort of punk lite which would be acceptable to mom.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Tom Robinson of the the Tom Robinson Band.

    Of ex-gay fame.

  250. @Malcolm X-Lax
    @Sollipsist

    I had assumed Zappa was jewish well into my 30's. I think it was because he looked it--in that way many Italians do ala John Torturro--and he had intellectual pretense about him as well as being satirical, and apropos the jewish rock press, he was highly regarded by critics. But I think mainly it's the strange inability (for me) to ethnically place his last name. Whenever I hear a weird last name and everything else seems to point in that direction, I assume the name got chopped/changed somewhere between Minsk and Ellis Island.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Frank Zappa sounds like an Americanized version of Franz Kafka.

    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    @Steve Sailer

    Yeah, that's kind of what I was saying. Btw, purely coincidentally, I came across a youtube video of G.E. Smith talking about The Replacements' appearance on SNL in 1986. So I start watching Replacements videos and then naturally I start watching Husker Du videos. And then it occurs to me that the lead singers of both bands are Jewish. Cohencidentally, as the saying goes.

    , @Joe Paluka
    @Steve Sailer

    Zappa translated means "hoe" in English.

  251. Leonard Cohen? I know, I know, he’s got to be the worst singer in the history of music, but his songs are pretty good. When someone else covers them.

    • Replies: @Wielgus
    @personfellowindividual

    John Cale's version of Hallelujah was used in Shrek and is better than versions he himself sang.

  252. Anonymous[698] • Disclaimer says:
    @Grand Marquis DeSade
    Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson of Rush are both Jewish. Lifeson’s (a stage name… his real last name is Zivojinovic which translates in English to “son of life”) Serbian parents emigrated to Toronto from Yugoslavia. Lee’s (also a stage name… real name Gary Lee Weinrib) parents were Holocaust survivors from Poland.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Lifeson, really? Is it through his mother? Zivojinovic is an extremely gentile name.

  253. @Charon
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Quit writing to me, a-hole.
     
    Try this. Quit writing 20,000 words a day on this one blog alone. And quit using it as a vehicle for flogging your own, which absolutely no one cares about. Free advice! HTH.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    [Out of the office/Automated reply:]

    Don’t like it? Tough shit.

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @Charon
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Don’t like it?
     
    Child, no one likes it.

    Tough shit.
     
    Which you keep shoveling at us all, 20,000 words a day.
  254. @Wade Hampton
    @Tono Bungay

    Randy Newman is wholly wonderful, but he is a balladeer like Dylan. Neither are rockers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGs2iLoDUYE

    Replies: @Curle, @Sorel McRae

    I almost stopped reading at this particular admission of bad taste: “the generally terrible Randy Newman.”

    • Replies: @Wade Hampton
    @Curle

    My sainted Father used to say "some people's taste is all in their mouth." Here's another example of Newman's genius.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsccG8OYKnk

  255. @Steve Sailer
    @Malcolm X-Lax

    Frank Zappa sounds like an Americanized version of Franz Kafka.

    Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax, @Joe Paluka

    Yeah, that’s kind of what I was saying. Btw, purely coincidentally, I came across a youtube video of G.E. Smith talking about The Replacements’ appearance on SNL in 1986. So I start watching Replacements videos and then naturally I start watching Husker Du videos. And then it occurs to me that the lead singers of both bands are Jewish. Cohencidentally, as the saying goes.

  256. @Charlesz Martel
    Also Jewish-Neil Diamond, Herb Alpert of both the Tijuana Brass and A&M Records, the guy who discovered Dylan (forgot his name)and tons of songwriters in the old days.

    The Gershwins alone are worth more than 75% of the Rock Musicians in the world, combined, in my view.

    Replies: @Boo Alcindor, @ScarletNumber

    We were talking about Alpert the other day and I mentioned that he was Jewish even though that fact wasn’t commonly known. While I’m a fan and while he is in the R&RHOF as a Non-performer, I don’t think he qualifies as a rock star per se.

  257. Anonymous[255] • Disclaimer says:

    Gavin Rossdale. He was never a very good one, and ever since the end of the 90s he’s only ever been mentioned for telenovela stuff – messy divorce from Gwen Stefani, secret daughter, confessing to youthful gay affairs with Boy George’s coked up friends… But he did fit the bill for 5 minutes a long time ago.

    • Replies: @Abe
    @Anonymous


    Gavin Rossdale. He was never a very good one, and ever since the end of the 90s he’s only ever been mentioned for telenovela stuff – messy divorce from Gwen Stefani, secret daughter, confessing to youthful gay affairs with Boy George’s coked up friends… But he did fit the bill for 5 minutes a long time ago.
     
    F’-me, I had no idea! Among the crappy, pandering, poseur bands that started coming out of the woodwork c.1993-1994 with the explosion of grunge, BUSH was among the crappiest and most shameless. With that said, in a cohort of exceptionally handsome male rockstars (nohomo, but to say that Eddie Vedder or Kurt Cobain had movie-star good looks is frankly an insult to both; they were like Abercrombie-Fitch models!) Rossdale may have been the handsomest. Anyone else remember Adam Sandler’s man-crush on Vedder in the early 90’s? That whole Opera Man sketch where he sings he wished Vedder didn’t have a girlfriend-o? There’s a YouTube video of backstage footage of PEARL JAM’s first appearance on SNL where Vedder is touring the set, posing for promotional photos, etc. and Sandler is shamelessly following him around like a love-struck puppy.

    So how many great or at least significant rock acts where all the members are good to great looking? Elvis. Bowie. Zeppelin. Guns N’ Ro… maybe that’s stretching it. Is that about it?
  258. @Neutral Observer
    How about Leslie West (Leslie Abel Weinstein), Mountain:


    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    When Howard Stern attempted to replace Joan Rivers as the FOX latenight talkshow host, he recruited Leslie West as his bandleader. Now I know why.

  259. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Charon

    [Out of the office/Automated reply:]

    Don't like it? Tough shit.

    Replies: @Charon

    Don’t like it?

    Child, no one likes it.

    Tough shit.

    Which you keep shoveling at us all, 20,000 words a day.

    • Thanks: ScarletNumber
  260. @ginger bread man
    Jack Black is half Jewish and is definitely a partial rocker. He starred in a movie called School of Rock.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=TExoc0MG4I4

    This franchise made a lot on the broadway remake and the TV adaptation.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    Jack’s father converted to Judaism and his mother was already Jewish, so Jack could be described as Jewish without any qualification. For those who don’t know, his mother Judith was a famous aerospace engineer. She didn’t work for NASA per se but the companies she worked for did a lot of work with NASA.

  261. Anonymous[129] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Peterike

    Strangely enough 'Mick Jones' - what a distinctly unjewish name! - the self styled Sandinista, (with a big house in Surrey), is the cousin of the up and coming UK Conservative MP and minister, Grant Shapps.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Strangely enough ‘Mick Jones’ – what a distinctly unjewish name!

    Is the lesser Mick Jones (Foreigner guitarist/songwriter and Mark Ronson’s stepdad) Jewish or just happened to marry into a super Jewish family?

  262. @Joe H
    I was surprised to find out a few years ago that Walter Becker of Steely Dan is not Jewish, unlike Donald Fagan. Another surprise to me was that at least two of the main members of the Hooters are Jewish; their songs come off like they just ordinary working class white guys.

    Replies: @Peterike

    “I was surprised to find out a few years ago that Walter Becker of Steely Dan is not Jewish, unlike Donald Fagan.”

    Fagan writes the pervy, creeping on your 19 year old daughter lyrics. At least he’s not gay.

  263. @Sorel McRae
    Lou Reed, most famous for Walk on the Wild Side but also wrote "Good Evening Mr. Waldheim":

    Good evening Mr.Waldheim
    And Pontiff how are you?
    You have so much in common
    In the things you do

    And here comes Jesse Jackson
    He talks of Common Ground
    Does that Common Ground include me
    Or is it just a sound?

    A sound that shakes
    Oh Jesse, you must watch the sounds you make
    A sound that quakes
    There are fears that still reverberate

    Jesse you say Common Ground
    Does that include the PLO?
    What about people right here right now
    Who fought for you not so long ago?

    The words that flow so freely
    falling dancing from your lips
    I hope that you don't cheapen them
    with a racist slip

    Oh Common Ground
    Is Common Ground a word or just a sound?
    Common Ground
    Remember those civil rights workers buried in the ground

    If I ran for President
    And once was a member of the Klan
    Wouldn't you call me on it
    The way I call you on Farrakhan

    And Pontiff, pretty Pontiff
    Can anyone shake your hand?
    Or is it just that you like uniforms
    And someone kissing your hand

    Or is it true
    The Common Ground for me includes you too?
    Oh, oh, is it true
    The Common Ground for me includes you too?

    Good evening Mr.Waldheim
    Pontiff how are you?
    As you both stroll through the woods at night
    I'm thinking thoughts of you

    And Jesse you're inside my thoughts
    As the rhythmic words subside
    My Common Ground invites you in
    Or do you prefer to wait outside

    Or is it true
    The Common Ground for me is without you
    Or is it true
    The Common Ground for me is without you
    Oh is it true
    There's no Ground Common enough for me and you

    Replies: @Sorel McRae

    For more ethnocentrist lyrics by Jewish rock stars, here’s Bob Dylan’s “Neighborhood Bully” (with a few comments):

    Well, the neighborhood bully, he’s just one man
    His enemies say he’s on their land
    They got him outnumbered about a million to one
    He got no place to escape to, no place to run
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    The neighborhood bully just lives to survive [no appetite for wealth, power, perversion, subversion. right.]
    He’s criticized and condemned for being alive [well, that just follows, doesn’t it?]
    He’s not supposed to fight back, he’s supposed to have thick skin
    He’s supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land [for no reason whatsoever! (Sorry, couldn’t resist)]
    He’s wandered the earth an exiled man
    Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn
    He’s always on trial for just being born
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
    Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
    Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad
    The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
    That he’ll live by the rules that the world makes for him
    ’Cause there’s a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
    And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    He got no allies to really speak of [Wow, just wow, the gratitude on this one!]
    What he gets he must pay for, he don’t get it out of love
    He buys obsolete weapons and he won’t be denied
    But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side [ditto]
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, he’s surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
    They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
    Now, they wouldn’t hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
    They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Every empire that’s enslaved him is gone
    Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon
    He’s made a garden of paradise in the desert sand
    In bed with nobody, under no one’s command
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
    No contract he signed was worth what it was written on
    He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
    Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    What’s anybody indebted to him for?
    Nothin’, they say. He just likes to cause war
    Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed
    They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    What has he done to wear so many scars?
    Does he change the course of rivers? Does he pollute the moon and stars?
    Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill
    Running out the clock, time standing still

    Neighborhood bully
    Copyright © 1983 by Special Rider Music

    • Replies: @Wielgus
    @Sorel McRae

    Judging from the date, he sounds rather defensive about negative reactions to the 1982 invasion of Lebanon. I really didn't know he was such a Zionist.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  264. Eddie Vedder? I thought he’s a member of the tribe? Or at least partially. He’s from the north shore suburban area of Chicago which is very Jewish. Maybe I’m wrong.

  265. @Putz
    I give you Mike Bloomfield lead guitarist of the Paul Butterfield Band, Electric Flag, etc.; Al Kooper of the Blues Project, Blood Sweat and Tears (played organ on Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone"); Jerry (the Fish) Melton and two other members of the (awful) Country Joe and the Fish ("gimme an 'F'!"); bassist and flutist Andy Kulberg, of the Blues Project and Seatrain; Billy Joel (duh).

    And, of course, Elvis was Jewish.

    Replies: @Sorel McRae, @Ripple Earthdevil

    Billy Joel’s anti-Catholic seduction anthem, “Only the Good Die Young”:

    Come out Virginia, don’t let me wait
    You Catholic girls start much too late
    Aw, but sooner or later, it comes down to fate
    I might as well be the one

    Well, they showed you a statue, told you to pray
    They built you a temple and locked you away
    Aw, but they never told you the price that you pay
    For things that you might have done

    Well, only the good die young
    That’s what I said
    Only the good die young
    Only the good die young

    You might-a heard I run with a dangerous crowd
    We ain’t too pretty, we ain’t too proud
    We might be laughing a bit too loud
    Aw, but that never hurt no one

    So come on Virginia, show me a sign
    Send up a signal, I’ll throw you the line
    The stained-glass curtain you’re hiding behind
    Never lets in the sun

    [Chorus]

    You got a nice white dress
    And a party on your confirmation
    You got a brand new soul
    Mmm, and a cross of gold

    But Virginia
    They didn’t give you quite enough information
    You didn’t count on me
    When you were counting on your rosary

    They say there’s a heaven for those who will wait
    Some say it’s better, but I say it ain’t
    I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
    The sinners are much more fun

    [Chorus]

    You said your mother told you
    “All that I could give you was a reputation”
    Aw, she never cared for me
    But did she ever say a prayer for me?
    Oh oh oh

    Come out, come out, come out Virginia, don’t let me wait
    You Catholic girls start much too late
    But sooner or later it comes down to fate
    I might as well be the one

    [Outro]

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Sorel McRae

    Could a Gentile singer get away with a song enticing a very young and virgin Jewess to lose her virginity? I don't think so, not even thirty years ago.

    Replies: @flyingtiger

  266. @Reg Cæsar
    @Art Deco



    And how can we forget Mama Cass?
     
    After 1968, her repertoire was popular, but not rock.
     
    It's said that the line "No one's gettin' fat 'cept Mama Cass" in the autobiographical* "Creeque Alley" refers to her making good money singing side gigs at bar mitzvahs while her bandmates were starving. I don't know if this has been verified, but it's both more plausible and less insulting than the more literal and common assumption. You'd assume she was singing standards at these events.

    The closest to her in style at the time was Elaine "Spanky" McFarlane of Spanky and Our Gang. (At least two popular acts of the late 1960s were named for Buckwheat's bros.) When the Papas regrouped to tour decades later, it was the perfect touch to invite Spanky to fill Cass's slot. Laura Mackenzie Phillips took her stepmom's place.

    Strange-but-true fact: Scott Mackenzie was named (by Papa John) after Laura, not vice versa.


    While we’re at it, this is a stupid topic.

     

    Granted, but it's smart-adjacent. Ethnomusicology is a fascinating subject, and wholly legitimate. Steve is just slumming here.

    *Is it "autobiographical" if it's about a group? Is there some Greek plural prefix that's more appropriate?

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    Is it “autobiographical” if it’s about a group?

    I’m going to say yes, and it’s a popular enough genre where I can name a number of songs in the same vein:

    • Bad Company – Shooting Star
    • Boston – Rock & Roll Band
    • Creedence Clearwater Revival – Lodi
    • Jackson Browne – The Load-Out
    • Foreigner – Jukebox Hero
    • Billy Joel – The Entertainer
    • Mötley Crüe – Home Sweet Home
    • Britney Spears – Lucky

    That’s just off the top of my head; I’m sure the others can name a dozen more

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @ScarletNumber

    "Takin' Care of Business".

    "Lola", "Smoke on the Water", and "I Was Dancing in the Lesbian Bar" weren't autobiographical, but were based on real-life incidents. "Alice's Restaurant", too, in parts.

  267. @Colin Wright
    Jews are exceptionally talented in some fields (physics, finance) but not in others (music, painting). The list of great Jewish classical composers, for example, is less than awe-inspiring.

    They are only about 0.2% of humanity. Statistically, something would definitely be up if they were dominant across the board. Offhand, whereas my idea of a good time is building a new cold frame, I think Jews really are most comfortable manipulating concepts. The Tsars were able to get German gentiles to colonize new lands easily enough -- but Jews fought like mad cats to avoid becoming farmers.

    Etc. They're strong in some areas -- not in all.

    Replies: @Jay Fink, @Curle

    We have high IQs in verbal/reasoning but are nothing special (or in my case below average) in spatial intelligence. My dad could complete any crossword puzzle but couldn’t fix anything around the house. He even had trouble screwing in a lightbulb.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Jay Fink

    As in, "How many Finks does it take to screw in a lightbulb?"

    Q: How many moths does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
    A: Silly. They screw outside the lightbulb!

    Replies: @Wielgus

    , @Colin Wright
    @Jay Fink

    'We have high IQs in verbal/reasoning but are nothing special (or in my case below average) in spatial intelligence. My dad could complete any crossword puzzle but couldn’t fix anything around the house. He even had trouble screwing in a lightbulb.'

    What'd be interesting would be to determine to what extent that trait is cultural, and to what extent hereditary. After all, your dad may well have been less adept than my neighbor Frank at figuring out some mechanical problem -- but he may also have been more comfortable with the failing. It's like not only can I not pirouette in ballet slippers, but the failing doesn't disturb me.

    At a guess, Jewish couples have adopted a fair number of gentile children, so it should be possible to gather some data on the point.

  268. @onetwothree
    Yeah, you're missing some, though "star" is maybe an iffy factor. Peter Green, members from the J Geils Band, Blue Oyster Cult. Dylan's various co-musicians tended to have a Jewish tint. Mike Bloomfield, Al Kooper, Robbie Robertson. And don't forget Geddy Lee, who has kind of a funny voice and I forgot about him until checking out this useful source:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_rock_musicians

    ...damn that page is really stretching the truth. (Do Jews do that? Stretch the truth?) Danny Elfman? A rock musician?

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @alaska3636, @SunBakedSuburb, @Dave Pinsen

    Didn’t know Susanna Hoffs was Jewish. She still looks good in her 60s.

    • Replies: @JR Ewing
    @Dave Pinsen

    I saw some pictures of her recently and was pleasantly surprised, too.

    , @DCThrowback
    @Dave Pinsen

    She's an absolute stone cold fox. Was and is. Some great genes. (Prince was so infatuated he gave her Manic Monday.)

  269. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Peter Akuleyev

    "Geddy Lee is more niche than we Rush fans like to admit."

    Rush is a niche band. An incredibly successful niche band. But not with the ladies. I've been to several Rush concerts: a sea of white male faces. A lot of guys there with their sons. Nary a jackass to be found. Camaraderie fills the air. Great live music experiences. Now that Rush is gone, Tool has become the white male bonding band. Most chix don't dig Tool either.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Anonymous, @Abe

    Rush is a niche band. An incredibly successful niche band. But not with the ladies.

  270. @Somsel
    I've noticed the same underrepresentation of Jews in engineering in my 50 years in the engineering biz.

    I've known a few, of course, but they seemed more interested in the steady income than burning with passion to build stuff.

    The Israeli arms industry proves there's no lack of ability but engineers are usually employees and you don't get rich working for someone else.

    There are riches to be had as a rock star but the odds of making it to the top are very small. It's a bad career bet for a young aspirant.

    Besides, rock is hedonism and that's not generally a Jewish vice.

    Replies: @Eric Novak, @AndrewR, @Lank98

    Former Polaroid engineer and multimillionaire rockstar founder of Boston (as well as Scholtz Engineering) would agree with your penultimate sentence. YouTube has a great mini-documentary produced by a Boston network news station about Tom and his history with the city of Boston, including interviews with Tom, who still has a huge smile on his face 40 years later, when recounting the day he submitted his resignation to Polaroid.

  271. More Rockabilly than rock, but I was always partial to Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys. I even voted for Kinky in the governor’s race.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @FPD72

    Kinky Friedman was my Rice U. roommate's camp counselor at Jewish summer camp in Texas.

  272. @FPD72
    More Rockabilly than rock, but I was always partial to Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys. I even voted for Kinky in the governor’s race.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Kinky Friedman was my Rice U. roommate’s camp counselor at Jewish summer camp in Texas.

  273. Abe says:
    @Anonymous
    Gavin Rossdale. He was never a very good one, and ever since the end of the 90s he's only ever been mentioned for telenovela stuff - messy divorce from Gwen Stefani, secret daughter, confessing to youthful gay affairs with Boy George's coked up friends... But he did fit the bill for 5 minutes a long time ago.

    Replies: @Abe

    Gavin Rossdale. He was never a very good one, and ever since the end of the 90s he’s only ever been mentioned for telenovela stuff – messy divorce from Gwen Stefani, secret daughter, confessing to youthful gay affairs with Boy George’s coked up friends… But he did fit the bill for 5 minutes a long time ago.

    F’-me, I had no idea! Among the crappy, pandering, poseur bands that started coming out of the woodwork c.1993-1994 with the explosion of grunge, BUSH was among the crappiest and most shameless. With that said, in a cohort of exceptionally handsome male rockstars (nohomo, but to say that Eddie Vedder or Kurt Cobain had movie-star good looks is frankly an insult to both; they were like Abercrombie-Fitch models!) Rossdale may have been the handsomest. Anyone else remember Adam Sandler’s man-crush on Vedder in the early 90’s? That whole Opera Man sketch where he sings he wished Vedder didn’t have a girlfriend-o? There’s a YouTube video of backstage footage of PEARL JAM’s first appearance on SNL where Vedder is touring the set, posing for promotional photos, etc. and Sandler is shamelessly following him around like a love-struck puppy.

    So how many great or at least significant rock acts where all the members are good to great looking? Elvis. Bowie. Zeppelin. Guns N’ Ro… maybe that’s stretching it. Is that about it?

  274. Abe says:

    You guys are some old farts! Ain’t no one ever heard of DISTURBED or its frontman David Draiman? Yes he belongs to that eminently forgettable cohort of W. Bush-era “butt rock” bands, but within that particular inertial frame his pull is significant.

    Also, Marty Friedman, who did a stint as lead guitarist of MEGADEATH and Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal of “(Axl Rose presents!) GUNS N ROSES”. While basically a glorified tour musician, technically he can play circles around Slash.

    But the correct answer for greatest Jewish rock musician is… Rick Rubin (and you do not really understand rock music unless you appreciate that production is basically the “5th” instrument of rock n’ roll).

  275. @Sorel McRae
    @Sorel McRae

    For more ethnocentrist lyrics by Jewish rock stars, here's Bob Dylan's "Neighborhood Bully" (with a few comments):

    Well, the neighborhood bully, he’s just one man
    His enemies say he’s on their land
    They got him outnumbered about a million to one
    He got no place to escape to, no place to run
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    The neighborhood bully just lives to survive [no appetite for wealth, power, perversion, subversion. right.]
    He’s criticized and condemned for being alive [well, that just follows, doesn't it?]
    He’s not supposed to fight back, he’s supposed to have thick skin
    He’s supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land [for no reason whatsoever! (Sorry, couldn't resist)]
    He’s wandered the earth an exiled man
    Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn
    He’s always on trial for just being born
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
    Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
    Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad
    The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
    That he’ll live by the rules that the world makes for him
    ’Cause there’s a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
    And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    He got no allies to really speak of [Wow, just wow, the gratitude on this one!]
    What he gets he must pay for, he don’t get it out of love
    He buys obsolete weapons and he won’t be denied
    But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side [ditto]
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Well, he’s surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
    They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
    Now, they wouldn’t hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
    They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Every empire that’s enslaved him is gone
    Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon
    He’s made a garden of paradise in the desert sand
    In bed with nobody, under no one’s command
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
    No contract he signed was worth what it was written on
    He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
    Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    What’s anybody indebted to him for?
    Nothin’, they say. He just likes to cause war
    Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed
    They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed
    He’s the neighborhood bully

    What has he done to wear so many scars?
    Does he change the course of rivers? Does he pollute the moon and stars?
    Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill
    Running out the clock, time standing still

    Neighborhood bully
    Copyright © 1983 by Special Rider Music

    Replies: @Wielgus

    Judging from the date, he sounds rather defensive about negative reactions to the 1982 invasion of Lebanon. I really didn’t know he was such a Zionist.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Wielgus

    He went through this wierd phase, possibly in reaction to disco. Came out of it later.

  276. This thread inevitably reminded me of this.

  277. Abe says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    @bws92082


    If ‘Bang the Gong’ is awesome, ‘Spirit In The Sky’ by Norman Greenbaum (a Jewish gospel songwriter believe it or not) is awesomeness squared.

     

    I won't disagree, but it is also cluelessness squared. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was innocently trying to ape the gospel tradition rather than to mock it. But it included the most un-Christian lyric imaginable:

    Never been a sinner, I never sinned...

    Bloody hell, that goes against the very core of the faith! I caught that as a slovenly junior high student, so why didn't everyone else? How poorly catechized were rockers? Again, I can forgive Greenbaum himself, but who was in the studio with him? Who published it? Was everybody stoned?

    Some gospel-rockers have adopted, and adapted, the song by rewriting the offending line.

    Replies: @Abe

    If ‘Bang the Gong’ is awesome, ‘Spirit In The Sky’ by Norman Greenbaum (a Jewish gospel songwriter believe it or not) is awesomeness squared.

    I won’t disagree, but it is also cluelessness squared. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was innocently trying to ape the gospel tradition rather than to mock it.

    What are your thoughts on WALKING IN MEMPHIS?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Abe


    What are your thoughts on WALKING IN MEMPHIS?
     
    I never paid attention to it, until just now, having always assumed it was about the blues scene (or Elvis). Conversely, I only learned recently that "Angel of Harlem" actually was about that city's music scene.

    If the tune doesn't click, the lyrics sure aren't going to. Though occasionally I will agree with a song but still hate it, e.g., Bob Seger's rock-and-roll thingy, which he didn't write.

    Did you know Waylon Jennings hated "Luckenbach, Texas"?
    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Abe

    BTW, wish Marc Cohn a happy birthday tomorrow.

    I hope your own Disobedience Day went well. 2022's coincided with this:


    Build A Scarecrow Day


    https://www.daysoftheyear.com/cdn-cgi/image/dpr=1%2Cf=auto%2Cfit=cover%2Cgravity=auto%2Cheight=952%2Cmetadata=none%2Conerror=redirect%2Cq=70%2Csharpen=1%2Cwidth=1400/wp-content/uploads/build-a-scarecrow-day1-scaled.jpg

  278. @ScarletNumber
    @Reg Cæsar


    Is it “autobiographical” if it’s about a group?
     
    I'm going to say yes, and it's a popular enough genre where I can name a number of songs in the same vein:

    • Bad Company - Shooting Star
    • Boston - Rock & Roll Band
    • Creedence Clearwater Revival - Lodi
    • Jackson Browne - The Load-Out
    • Foreigner - Jukebox Hero
    • Billy Joel - The Entertainer
    • Mötley Crüe - Home Sweet Home
    • Britney Spears - Lucky

    That's just off the top of my head; I'm sure the others can name a dozen more

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    “Takin’ Care of Business”.

    “Lola”, “Smoke on the Water”, and “I Was Dancing in the Lesbian Bar” weren’t autobiographical, but were based on real-life incidents. “Alice’s Restaurant”, too, in parts.

  279. Randy Newman may be many things, but he pegged the City of Baltimore. I lived in Baltimore for three years, and I wouldn’t cross the street to spit on that city. I hate Baltimore:

    • Agree: Wade Hampton
  280. @Jay Fink
    @Colin Wright

    We have high IQs in verbal/reasoning but are nothing special (or in my case below average) in spatial intelligence. My dad could complete any crossword puzzle but couldn't fix anything around the house. He even had trouble screwing in a lightbulb.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Colin Wright

    As in, “How many Finks does it take to screw in a lightbulb?”

    Q: How many moths does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
    A: Silly. They screw outside the lightbulb!

    • Replies: @Wielgus
    @Reg Cæsar

    Once I removed a light bulb that had burned out. I inadvertently dropped it on the floor and it shattered. There was a dead moth inside it. Presumably burned to death. How the hell it got inside though remains a mystery.

  281. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jay Fink

    As in, "How many Finks does it take to screw in a lightbulb?"

    Q: How many moths does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
    A: Silly. They screw outside the lightbulb!

    Replies: @Wielgus

    Once I removed a light bulb that had burned out. I inadvertently dropped it on the floor and it shattered. There was a dead moth inside it. Presumably burned to death. How the hell it got inside though remains a mystery.

  282. @Abe
    @Reg Cæsar



    If ‘Bang the Gong’ is awesome, ‘Spirit In The Sky’ by Norman Greenbaum (a Jewish gospel songwriter believe it or not) is awesomeness squared.
     
    I won’t disagree, but it is also cluelessness squared. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was innocently trying to ape the gospel tradition rather than to mock it.
     
    What are your thoughts on WALKING IN MEMPHIS?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Reg Cæsar

    What are your thoughts on WALKING IN MEMPHIS?

    I never paid attention to it, until just now, having always assumed it was about the blues scene (or Elvis). Conversely, I only learned recently that “Angel of Harlem” actually was about that city’s music scene.

    If the tune doesn’t click, the lyrics sure aren’t going to. Though occasionally I will agree with a song but still hate it, e.g., Bob Seger’s rock-and-roll thingy, which he didn’t write.

    Did you know Waylon Jennings hated “Luckenbach, Texas”?

  283. Abe says:
    @Ganderson
    @Tom Scarlett

    Westerberg sounds like a more Scandinavian, probably Swedish name. Not surprising given where he grew up. Kinda like the episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry fires his divorce lawyer Berg after he found out he wasn’t a Jew.

    Replies: @Abe

    Maybe the problem is that Jewish creativity is mostly smart-ass irony and rock takes itself very seriously.

    B-B-B-INGO!

    Anyone else remember post-grunge “It Boy” Beck? Half-quarter-whatever Jewish. Rock seemed very much alive and healthy in the 2000’s, but turned out acts like WHITE STRIPES, BLACK KEYS, ARCADE FIRE and, yes, BECK were not so much part of a vital and lasting cultural movement as the advertising soundtrack and/or loss leader for selling more iPods.

    Yet that did not stop FUTURAMA from giving Beck this tongue-bath, heralding him as some sort of 2nd coming of Dylan-

    Beck’s “reinvention” of genres was basically just more of said non-serious [email protected], a great example being his dead-serious-no-not-really R&B spoof song DEBRA.

    There have been some major Jewish rock stars as noted by others, but it is not at all a natural fit, as the quintessential Jewish yuckster/take-nothing-too-seriously personality (which at its worst devolves into a sort of cynical schlockmeistery) is generally unable to cope with either of rock’s two great modes- too intellectually self-regarding and unbelieving to attain rock unguarded transcendence (STAIRWAY), too self-aware and premeditated to even partake of any of rock’s innocent barbarism and aggression (BROWN SUGAR, pretty much any AC/DC song).

    • Troll: Che Guava
    • Replies: @Che Guava
    @Abe

    IIRC, Beck, no matter his possible small part Jewish ancenstry, is a Scientologist.

    That is absolutely not kosher.

    , @Che Guava
    @Abe

    Beck is a Scientologist. Though many Jews like many cult religions, that ain't one of them.

    Also did snme good pop songs.

    Replies: @Curle

  284. @Abe
    @Reg Cæsar



    If ‘Bang the Gong’ is awesome, ‘Spirit In The Sky’ by Norman Greenbaum (a Jewish gospel songwriter believe it or not) is awesomeness squared.
     
    I won’t disagree, but it is also cluelessness squared. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was innocently trying to ape the gospel tradition rather than to mock it.
     
    What are your thoughts on WALKING IN MEMPHIS?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Reg Cæsar

    BTW, wish Marc Cohn a happy birthday tomorrow.

    I hope your own Disobedience Day went well. 2022’s coincided with this:

    Build A Scarecrow Day

  285. Lenny Kravitz?

    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @BB753
    @Spect3r

    Kravitz is only Jewish on his paternal side, so he doesn't qualify as a Jew, lol!

  286. @YetAnotherAnon
    @SFG


    Rather than offering financial advice and maximizing his clients' income, as a business manager normally would, Allan Klein set up what he called "buy/sell agreements" where a company that Klein owned became an intermediary between his client and the record label, owning the rights to the music, manufacturing the records, selling them to the record label, and paying royalties and cash advances to the client. Although Klein greatly increased his clients' incomes, he also enriched himself, sometimes without his clients' knowledge. (The Rolling Stones' $1.25 million advance from the Decca Records label in 1965, for example, was deposited into a company that Klein had established, and the fine print of the contract did not require Klein to release it for 20 years.) Klein's involvement with both the Beatles and Rolling Stones would lead to years of litigation and, specifically for the Rolling Stones, accusations from the group that Klein had withheld royalty payments, stolen the publishing rights to their songs, and neglected to pay their taxes for five years; this last had necessitated their French "exile" in 1971.
     

    In 1966, Don Arden and a squad of "minders" turned up at impresario Robert Stigwood's office to "teach him a lesson" for daring to discuss a change of management with Small Faces, which became one of the most notorious incidents from the 1960s British pop business. Arden reportedly threatened to throw Stigwood out of the window if he ever interfered with his business again.

    In 1979, investigative reporter Roger Cook used the dispute with Lynsey de Paul to probe into Arden's controversial management style on BBC Radio 4's Checkpoint programme. That proved to be a colourful encounter. "When you fight the champion you go 15 rounds, you've got to be prepared to go the whole way", Arden tells Cook. "I'll take you with one hand strapped up my arse. You're not a man, you're a creep." Arden threatened to break the neck of anyone who talked to Cook in his on-air interview.

    In 1986, Arden was arrested for kidnapping and torturing a Jet records accountant named Harshad Patel, whom Arden believed had been embezzling money. Arden's son, known legally as 'David Levy', appeared at the Old Bailey in 1986 for his role in the matter. The incident occurred at the offices at 35 Portland Place. Convicted, Levy spent several months in an open prison. Arden, tried separately on related charges, was acquitted.
     

    Replies: @Verymuchalive

    Don Arden’s daughter is Sharon Osbourne. Need one say more.
    You know that, of course, but some of our younger commenters probably don’t.

  287. Anonymous[372] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ola
    Lots of comments but none seem to have mentioned The Mael brothers of Sparks. Surely they are Jewish?

    Also, Sylvain Sylvain and Johnny Thunders (half-Jewish) of New York Dolls.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Also, Sylvain Sylvain and Johnny Thunders (half-Jewish) of New York Dolls.

    A rare Sephardic on the list. Him and Sedaka, of the people mentioned. Can’t think of any others off the top of my head.

  288. What about antistars? Jonathan Richman (“Russian-Jewish in every direction”) is the epitome of that strain. He’d be cancelled for these lyrics today:

    A country version of this phenomenon is Kinky Friedman and his Texas Jewboys.

  289. @Dave Pinsen
    @onetwothree

    Didn’t know Susanna Hoffs was Jewish. She still looks good in her 60s.

    https://twitter.com/kevin10919728/status/1543660056163614720?s=21&t=SUJwpCzE8y6arVWGSoygdA

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @DCThrowback

    I saw some pictures of her recently and was pleasantly surprised, too.

  290. @Mike Tre
    @Wilkey

    You have to kidding:

    Bob Dylan
    Neil Diamond
    David Lee Roth - Van Halen
    Ric Ocasik - The Cars
    Simon and Garfunkel
    The moronic Clash frontman
    David Draiman - Disturbed
    Geddy Lee - Rush
    Steven Alder - GnR
    Even Seinfeld - Biohazard (also a former porn star)
    Marty Friedman - Megadeth
    Dan Spietz, Scott Ion and Dan Lilker - Anthrax
    Daisy Berkowitz - Marilyn Manson
    Eric Bloom - BOC
    Robert Bourdon and Brad Delson - Linkin Park
    David Rashbaum - Bon Jovi
    Perry Ferrell - Jane's Addiction and creator of the massive globohomo music monstrosity known as Lollapallooza
    Hillel Slovak - RHCP's original guitarist - died of a heroin OD
    Dee Snyder and JJ French of Twisted Sister
    Traci Guns - LA Guns
    Max Weinberg - drummer for Bruce Springsteen
    Jay Weinberg - drummer for Slipknot and son of Max Weinberg (there's no such thing as jewish nepotism)
    Michael Portney - Dream Theater
    Stanley Bert Eisen and Chaim Witz of KISS
    All three members of The Beastie Boys
    Rick Rubin - one of the most sought after rock record producer's of the 80's and 90's.

    Ok I'm bored - but the premise is laughable false.

    I'm not even getting into the more mainstream pop because I don't care enough about it to know, but every one mentioned above achieved at least some long standing success as a rock star.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Amasius, @Matt Buckalew

    Negative on Ric Ocasek.

    https://ethnicelebs.com/ric-ocasek

    (Thank god, you had me worried for a sec.)

  291. Lucknow is in India, not particularly close to Pakistan or even to Kashmir. Call ’em all Pakis and you won’t get a complaint from me, however.

  292. @Anonymous
    Blackrock pays better than hard rock.

    Are there still Jewish giants in comedy?

    Jewish Male aggression of Norman Mailer, Philip Roth, Harvey Weistein, Ron Jeremy, and Mel Brooks seem kinda rare these days.

    Don't rock the boat that is now ours?

    Replies: @Anon

    Ah yes, Ron Jeremy, Mr. Longdick. The hedgehog porn star. Real name Ron Hyatt. Last I heard Ron was on his way to prison or is in prison for rape. I believe he hails from the hotel dynasty.

    • Replies: @Joe Paluka
    @Anon

    Ron Jeremy's also the nephew of Grandpa Munster.

  293. @Wielgus
    @Sorel McRae

    Judging from the date, he sounds rather defensive about negative reactions to the 1982 invasion of Lebanon. I really didn't know he was such a Zionist.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    He went through this wierd phase, possibly in reaction to disco. Came out of it later.

  294. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Brás Cubas

    "Joey Ramone was Jewish. A non-Jew could not write the lyrics he wrote."

    Actually Dee Dee wrote a lot of their best songs, created most of the cartoonish aesthetic, and was supposed to be the singer, but he kept blowing out his voice. Maybe Dee Dee was Jewish too, I don't know but I doubt it. I think his real name was Doug something. And of course they are nothing without Johnny's very goyish guitar. Joey and Dee Dee's lyrics wouldn't sound like much without the buzz-saw guitar.

    Replies: @Brás Cubas

    Thanks a lot. So, what I wrote was bullshit (not an uncommon feature of my comments). I guess the reality of Jews is not what my prejudices tell me. Same about the reality of non-Jews, who can be boundlessly wonderful and creative. I keep criticizing this kind of prejudice about Jews (both negative and positive) in others, and low and behold I am doing the same thing. I was feeling good about myself this morning (it’s morning in Brazil), but now I’m down a notch or two. I liked that.

  295. @Tono Bungay
    Randy Newman may indeed be "generally terrible." All I remember is his earliest albums, which had some excellent things, among which is the incomparable "Political Science."

    Replies: @Wade Hampton, @WJ

    Randy Neuman is generally terrible. His music should have been beamed into Noriega’s hideout back in 89 except it might be classified as a war crime.

  296. @Wade Hampton
    @Tono Bungay

    Randy Newman is wholly wonderful, but he is a balladeer like Dylan. Neither are rockers.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGs2iLoDUYE

    Replies: @Curle, @Sorel McRae

    He may be just a balladeer but Randy Newman sure hated White people! Here are the lyrics to “Rednecks”:

    Last night, I saw Lester Maddox on a TV show
    With some smart ass New York Jew
    And the Jew laughed at Lester Maddox
    And the audience laughed at Lester Maddox too
    Well, he may be a fool, but he’s our fool
    If they think they’re better than him, they’re wrong
    So I went to the park, and I took some paper along
    And that’s where I made this song

    We talk real funny down here
    We drink too much and we laugh too loud
    We’re too dumb to make it in no Northern town
    We’re keepin’ the niggers down

    We got no-necked oilmen from Texas
    Good ol’ boys from Tennessee
    College men from LSU
    Went in dumb, come out dumb too
    Hustlin’ ’round Atlanta in their alligator shoes
    Gettin’ drunk every weekend at the barbecues
    They’re keepin’ the niggers down

    We’re rednecks, rednecks
    We don’t know our ass from a hole in the ground
    We’re rednecks, we’re rednecks
    We’re keeping the niggers down

    Now, your northern nigga’s a Negro
    You see, he’s got his dignity
    Down here, we too ignorant to realize
    That the North has set the nigga free

    Yes, he’s free to be put in a cage
    In Harlem in New York City
    And he’s free to be put in a cage on the South-Side of Chicago
    And the West-Side
    And he’s free to be put in a cage in Hough in Cleveland
    And he’s free to be put in a cage in East St. Louis
    And he’s free to be put in a cage in Fillmore in San Francisco
    And he’s free to be put in a cage in Roxbury in Boston

    They’re gatherin’ ’em up from miles around
    Keepin’ the niggers down

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Sorel McRae

    I remember that one, Sorel. From one year earlier, 1973 vs. '74, the Atlanta Rhythm Section had a song called Redneck* on their Back up Against the Wall album. It was written by a guy named Joe South, from the Atlanta area too - he died up in Buford, GA to the NE of the city in Gwinnett County, formerly very White.

    I heard this one many years later when I got their Greatest Hits album. This sounded surprising from a Southern band and Southern songwriter, but as White as their areas were then (ARS was from Doraville), they had no idea what they might have to complain about later! Rednecks? Give me a break.

    Here are the lyrics for the whole song:


    Hey, redneck.
    Man, ain't you cool, hey.
    Man about town, your hair slicked down,
    a little grease on your forehead.

    Well those things you say and do
    gonna make Papa real proud of you.
    Play football, hang around the pool hall,
    and cheat on exams.

    Hey, redneck.
    Pullin' in at the drive-in,
    spend a little money, poke a lot of fun
    at people tryin' to make a livin'.

    But you never did have much use
    for all these darkies, Dagos and Jews.
    Talk real loud, draw a big crowd.
    Baby, you what's happenin'.
    Whoa, screw you.

    Hey, redneck.
    Goin' down to the ghetto.
    A dollar's worth of gas, heckle and harass
    all the hippies and the weirdos.

    Well you talk about havin' fun.
    You a good time son of a gun.
    Four years of college, a little bit of knowledge,
    and outsmart the draft board.

    Hey hey hey, redneck,
    You're All-American lover.
    When God said brain, you thought he said rain,
    and you ran for cover.

    Well I've done all that I can do,
    just tryin' to get along with you.
    You're too much, everything you touch
    turns to something else.

    Hey, redneck.
    You, redneck.
    Hey, redneck.
    You, redneck.
    Hey, redneck.
    All-American redneck...

     

    I had to correct the "AZ lyrics" for 5 minutes. Yeah, a dollah's wortha gas. Must be nice!

    Joe South's lyrics were more realistic than Randy Newman's, though. They are written a a Southerner would see it.


    .

    * I remember it as "Hey, Redneck!"

    , @Curle
    @Sorel McRae

    I’m not sure you’re understanding who Newman is making fun of here. And which traits he’s mocking. Look for reference to Northern.

    Replies: @Sorel McRae

  297. @Dnought
    @p4nc4k3s Pl34s3

    Dharma isn't even the best Jewish guitarist. That would be Mark Knopfler.

    Replies: @Rohirrimborn

    Disagree. The best Jewish guitarist was Peter Green.

    • Replies: @p38ace
    @Rohirrimborn

    I agree. I saw Peter Green in a small club in Chicago 25 years ago. It was one of the best performaces I have ever heard.

  298. @kahein
    here's a plaintive early simon/garfunkel rocker about trying to walk unnoticed amongst the savage and monstrous gentile, it's basically a song the coen bros would have made had they chose music over film

    and yes, it rocks

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkFBOd4YN60

    Replies: @Sorel McRae

    Simon and Garfunkel were indeed Jewish and generally ethnocentric but what do you make of their covers of Christian songs like “Go Tell it on the Mountain,” “Benedictus,” etc.? Or “You can tell the World,” which seems to be original?:

    Well, you can tell the world about this
    You can tell the nation about that
    Tell ’em what the master has done
    Tell ’em that the gospel has come
    Tell ’em that the victory’s been won
    He brought joy, joy, joy, joy, joy, joy
    Into my heart

    Well, my Lord spoke, he spoke so well
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    Talked about the flames that burn in hell
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    Now, my Lord spoke, he spoke so well
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    Talked about the children of Israel
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    He brought joy, joy, joy into my heart

    Well, you can tell the world about this
    You can tell the nation about that
    Tell ’em what the master has done
    Tell ’em that the gospel has come
    Tell ’em that the victory’s been won
    He brought joy, joy, joy, joy, joy, joy
    Into my heart

    Well, my Lord spoke, he spoke to me
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    Talkin’ about a man from Galilee
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    My Lord spoke, he spoke to me
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    Talkin’ about a man from Galilee
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    He brought joy, joy, joy into my heart

    Well, you can tell the world about this
    You can tell the nation about that
    Tell ’em what the master has done
    Tell ’em that the gospel has come
    Tell ’em that the victory’s been won
    He brought joy, joy, joy, joy, joy, joy
    Into my heart

    Well, I don’t know but I’ve been told
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    Streets of heaven are paved with gold
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    Now, the Jordan River is chilly and wide
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    I got a home on the other side
    Yes, he did, yes, he did
    He brought joy, joy, joy into my heart

    Well, you can tell the world about this
    You can tell the nation about that
    Tell ’em what the master has done
    Tell ’em that the gospel has come
    Tell ’em that the victory’s been won
    He brought joy, joy, joy, joy, joy, joy
    Into my heart

  299. @personfellowindividual
    Leonard Cohen? I know, I know, he's got to be the worst singer in the history of music, but his songs are pretty good. When someone else covers them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5Fb4K8pNmg

    Replies: @Wielgus

    John Cale’s version of Hallelujah was used in Shrek and is better than versions he himself sang.

  300. @War for Blair Mountain
    I think there is one in Llyod Neck down the road from Comrade Derbyshire….but he goes to Epischopal services…..WERE’RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT…..!!!!!!!!

    Replies: @War for Blair Mountain

    So who is it Steve?

    Answer:Dee Synder……

  301. @Brás Cubas
    Joey Ramone was Jewish. A non-Jew could not write the lyrics he wrote. Just my opinion of course. He had Obsessive Compulsive Disorder in a high degree, poor fellow (not sure that had any bearing on his art, but who knows?).
    Blue Oyster Cult, a relatively obscure band, had a Jewish vocalist and at least one other Jewish member. The songs were written by two Jews who were not band performers. Again, you can spot the Jewishness instantly, but you can always say I'm prejudiced, though not negatively.
    Lou Reed, of course, was Jewish. This is another case where I couldn't figure a non-Jew producing his kind of music and life choices (don't ask me why). I am not a big fan, but his Velvet Underground phase was brilliant (due also to the contribution of non-Jew John Cale).
    If you thought that Iggy Pop or Bruce Springsteen were (even partly) Jewish then your Jewdar is completely off. Or perhaps you have no Jewdar and just go by the presence of "steen" or "berg" in a person's last name.
    Here is an article with several names (it focuses on hard rock):
    https://www.ranker.com/list/headbanging-hebrews/music-lover

    Replies: @Brás Cubas, @Known Fact, @The Germ Theory of Disease, @Curle

    “Blue Oyster Cult, a relatively obscure band”

    A quibble, but you must be below a certain age. For people upright and conscious in the late seventies, they were not obscure.

    • Replies: @Che Guava
    @Curle

    I am not a fan, but at least in Japan, BoC has a heavily influenced band, very young when they started, ten or so years ago, and to prove the point, the person telling me that used the BoC influence for criticism.

    I hadn't even noticed, but did after that talk.

  302. @Jack D

    I was surprised to find that Iggy Pop and Bruce Springsteen aren’t,
     
    I don't know anything about Iggy Pop, but a little about Springsteen, who is from the area where I grew up. Nothing about Springsteen would indicate that he has any Jewish blood. His background was blue collar (although perhaps not as blue collar as he makes himself out to be) and his appearance is a sort of generic European - a lot of Jews look like this but so do millions and millions of Europeans. Springsteen is 1/2 Italian and Jews and Italians can often pass for each other (lots of movie roles where Jews were cast as Italians or vice versa).

    Not coincidentally, Ashkenazi Jews are believed to be a mix population with a Middle Eastern male line and an Italian or Greek female line, likely founded by single Jewish men who settled in Rome. (These kind of Mestizo populations are common throughout the world - for example most Mexicans are Spanish in the male line and Indian in the female line).

    Interestingly, the Springsteens came to New Amsterdam in the 17th century, which makes him super-old stock on his father's side. Unlike some of the New Amsterdam settlers such as the Vanderbilts, the Springsteens didn't do very well - Bruce's father was a bus driver.

    Replies: @PiltdownMan, @Reg Cæsar, @Flip

    I remember being in a restaurant in Rome and thinking that everyone looked Jewish.

  303. @Dave Pinsen
    @onetwothree

    Didn’t know Susanna Hoffs was Jewish. She still looks good in her 60s.

    https://twitter.com/kevin10919728/status/1543660056163614720?s=21&t=SUJwpCzE8y6arVWGSoygdA

    Replies: @JR Ewing, @DCThrowback

    She’s an absolute stone cold fox. Was and is. Some great genes. (Prince was so infatuated he gave her Manic Monday.)

    • Agree: ScarletNumber
  304. “Lost Tribe” aka Mormon Tabernacle Choir GOAT in group category according to Billboard.

  305. @michael droy
    Amazed that Madonna is not jewish.

    Replies: @Muggles, @Dandy Wine

    She’s all Italian, as are many of the top female pop stars of today like Lady Gaga and Ariana Grande. The only notable female Jewish pop stars of the last 20 years are P!nk and Doja Cat.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Dandy Wine

    She's half Italian half French Canadian. Feels like those clickbait "Madonna and Ellen DeGeneres are related!" articles appear like twice a year at least. Yeah, they and every other North American of French colonial descent.

    Guess you're not counting Amy Winehouse as pop (among other things)? Definitely more notable than either Pink or (so far) Doja Cat.

    Replies: @Dandy Wine

  306. @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Jay Fink


    ... Adam Levine ... with his buff tattooed body ...
     
    He for sure won't be buried in a Jewish cemetery!

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    He for sure won’t be buried in a Jewish cemetery!

    I assume you’re joking, but for the uninformed there is no such halachic rule. Tattooing is a violation of Halacha (biblically prohibited per Leviticus 19:28) but does not carry a burial penalty. That said, there may be an individual ‘Chevre Kadisha’ (burial society) that might not permit it in their burial plots as an organizational rule but there is no such general prohibition.

  307. Anon[225] • Disclaimer says:
    @prime noticer
    pursuant to standard HBD evaluation of representation in the population, or perhaps more accurately, rate of appearance of major figures, yes, it's largely correct that jewish people don't appear at a rate in rock and metal like they do in physics or something like that, let alone other music fields like jazz or rap, or writing studio pop music.

    maybe double their rate of the population, if the background population is germanic europeans in general. higher, if it's slavs, since slavs aren't that good at music. lower of it's italians, as italians are good at music. lower still if it's among the british, who are the most musical people ever. so, even measuring rate of appearance is difficult since the europeans themselves vary so much in music ability.

    i ascribe this largely to the fact that they are rarely great players. yes, there have been great players, like Buddy Rich. but they aren't common among jewish guys. jews are mainly vocalists, so they're more prominent as annoying crooners in soft rock and jazz. also, jews are pretty uncool, so it would take something special for them to be a proper hard rock music star. 90s rappers liked to rip off jewish musicians - Biggie Smalls' entire career was practically made from ripping off a great Herb Alpert jazz song from 1979 and making a loop.

    Replies: @Anon

    Not really accurate. If you look over all the names surfaced in this discussion you’ll see that something like eight to ten percent of the top rock/pop acts during the great golden age of pop/rock (say 1960-2000 or so) were Jewish. Then many many more behind the scenes musicians were. To take one small example almost all Brian Wilson’s musicians for his great Pet Sounds were Jewish, they were LA session musicians (the “wrecking crew”) who also contributed to many other albums around this time

    So it’s closer to 4-5 times overrepresented. This only looks small compared to Jewish overrepresentation in certain other fields

    • Agree: kahein
    • Replies: @kahein
    @Anon

    this is crazy good take. dudes like hal blaine constitute the behind-the-scenes link between emerging rock culture in the 50s and 60s and its roots in swing and jazz culture -- which was heavily populated and influenced by jews. this goes way over the head of the bob seger types here

  308. @Anonymous
    @the one they call Desanex


    Hell, I’d even include Lesley Gore as rock, I’m no stickler.
     
    Love Lesley Gore, so I say sure, why not. The more, the merrier.

    Modern music journos would doubtless say even trying to define rock is nothing but pernicious, gatekeeping rockism anyway. And probably sexist and anti-queer to boot. So I nominate Paula Abdul! Poptimism all around.

    More seriously, I can't remember if Obama classmate and Steve's favorite Runaway Jackie Fox is Jewish? Fuchs is a name carried by both Jews and gentiles, but she is a Merit scholar, a lawyer, and related to the founder of Castle Rock Entertainment...

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    More seriously, I can’t remember if Obama classmate and Steve’s favorite Runaway Jackie Fox is Jewish?

    According to the Forward she is

    https://forward.com/schmooze/311719/jewish-runaways-bassist-jackie-fox-was-raped-by-producer/

  309. Know very little about Rock but Olivia Newton-John is partly Jewish. Weirdly enough her grandfather was Nobelist Max Born.

  310. @Jay Fink
    @Colin Wright

    We have high IQs in verbal/reasoning but are nothing special (or in my case below average) in spatial intelligence. My dad could complete any crossword puzzle but couldn't fix anything around the house. He even had trouble screwing in a lightbulb.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Colin Wright

    ‘We have high IQs in verbal/reasoning but are nothing special (or in my case below average) in spatial intelligence. My dad could complete any crossword puzzle but couldn’t fix anything around the house. He even had trouble screwing in a lightbulb.’

    What’d be interesting would be to determine to what extent that trait is cultural, and to what extent hereditary. After all, your dad may well have been less adept than my neighbor Frank at figuring out some mechanical problem — but he may also have been more comfortable with the failing. It’s like not only can I not pirouette in ballet slippers, but the failing doesn’t disturb me.

    At a guess, Jewish couples have adopted a fair number of gentile children, so it should be possible to gather some data on the point.

  311. @pirelli
    @Wilkey

    Lou Reed (Velvet Underground)
    Donald Fagen (Steely Dan)
    David Lee Roth (Van Halen)

    Plus as you mention:

    Paul Simon
    Billy Joel
    Neil Diamond
    Mark Knopfler

    I mean, those are all very heavy hitters. Top 100 (or at least members of top 100 bands) for sure. So when you add them to Dylan, Bolan, Simmons, and the others, the percentage doesn’t strike me as all that small.

    Plus if you count songwriters in addition to performers (like the guys who wrote Elvis’s hits), then the percentage would be a lot higher.

    And I’ll be darned, I’d always assumed Springsteen was Jewish.

    Replies: @Right_On, @Element59

    There’s some difficulty here with objectively defining examples of “rock stars” in the context that Steve’s probably thinking of.

    Many commenters here are offering up Neil Diamond, Billy Joel, Paul Simon, or maybe one member of a true “rock” band like David Lee Roth as undermining Steve’s premise. But for the most part, I wouldn’t consider Diamond, Joel, or Simon as classic “rock star” archetypes, they’re more like soft rock, or pop-rock, or folk-rock singer/songwriters.

    Think of the the dozens of absolutely huge hard rock bands and solo rock stars over the decades and how few Jews there are among this massive lot compared to say the pop song writers, producers, and record label big wigs; The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, Metallica, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Nirvana, Queen, U2, AC/DC, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, The Eagles, The Doors, The Grateful Dead…heck even soft rock-pop acts like Fleetwood Mac and the Bee Gees were absolutely huge at their peaks…and almost all of them are Jewless Anglo-Saxons.

    Perhaps this ethnic pattern stems from a peculiar strain of hyper individualism and rugged autonomy that exists more among white, Anglo Saxon gentiles – a less group-oriented psychology that produces egocentric rebels and individualist social risk takers compared to the hyper ethnocentric collectivist strain that exists in the shrewd Ashkenazim psychology.

    If true, one could correctly predict that the authentic “rock star” persona and lifestyle would have very few Jews. The group psychological foundations that would produce this kind of rugged hyper individual rock star are just not that commonly found among Jews. This is probably why you get proportionately more “intellectual” folk rocker/song writer types produced among the Jews like a Dylan or a Simon than say the hard rocker, larger-than-life types like a Mick Jagger or a Ozzy Osbourne.

    Dylan and Simon wrote relatively complex lyrics and arrangements targeting social issues, or deep-seated anxieties about social structures (structures built by gentiles) and their music was motivated to undermine those. Whereas the Anglo hard rockers focused more on frustrated relationships and angsts of love and unleashing raw sexual desires – more motivated by raw innate desires that channeled into their music and attaining scores of hot women rather than crafting the complex oratories on dismantling injustices and social structures by the more goofy looking Jewish “rockers”.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Element59


    Think of the the dozens of absolutely huge hard rock bands and solo rock stars over the decades and how few Jews there are among this massive lot compared to say the pop song writers, producers, and record label big wigs; The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, Metallica, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Nirvana, Queen, U2, AC/DC, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, The Eagles, The Doors, The Grateful Dead…heck even soft rock-pop acts like Fleetwood Mac and the Bee Gees were absolutely huge at their peaks…and almost all of them are Jewless Anglo-Saxons.
     
    More than half of your examples are from the UK, Ireland and Australia, countries where, as hard as it may be to believe, Jews are less than 0.5% of the population. In Ireland's case there are hardly any at all.

    In the US they're a bit more than 2%, but ultimately, almost all of the population of any country but Israel is "Jewless", as you put it. So, everything else being equal, that's what you'd expect of bands, too.

    (Btw, these bands with Italian, Polish, Spanish, Irish, Scandinavian, Filipino, Parsi, Greek, Mexican, and yes, Jewish, members can hardly be said, as a group, to be "almost all" Anglo-Saxon. Majority Anglo-Saxon, sure. Again, just like the US, and especially UK and Australian, population of those generations.)

    Yet even with Jews being such a teeny tiny demographic, there are plenty of examples of proper rock stars and punk icons in this thread.

    Think you like your rebellious Anglo-Saxon theory so much that you're determined not to let facts get in the way. Or possibly you're just bad with numbers.

    Replies: @bomag

    , @Anonymous
    @Element59


    Think of the the dozens of absolutely huge hard rock bands and solo rock stars over the decades and how few Jews there are among this massive lot compared to say the pop song writers, producers, and record label big wigs; The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, Metallica, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Nirvana, Queen, U2, AC/DC, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, The Eagles, The Doors, The Grateful Dead…heck even soft rock-pop acts like Fleetwood Mac and the Bee Gees were absolutely huge at their peaks…and almost all of them are Jewless Anglo-Saxons.
     
    More than half of your examples are from the UK, Ireland and Australia, countries where, as hard as it may be to believe, Jews are less than 0.5% of the population. In Ireland's case there are hardly any at all.

    In the US they're a bit more than 2%, but ultimately, almost all of the population of any country but Israel is "Jewless", as you put it. So, everything else being equal, that's what you'd expect of bands, too.

    (Btw, these bands with Italian, Polish, Spanish, Irish, Scandinavian, Filipino, Parsi, Greek, Mexican, and yes, Jewish, members can hardly be said, as a group, to be "almost all" Anglo-Saxon. Majority Anglo-Saxon, sure. Again, just like the US, and especially UK and Australian, population of those generations.)

    Yet even with Jews being such a teeny tiny demographic, there are plenty of examples of proper rock stars and punk icons in this thread.

    Think you like your rebellious Anglo-Saxon theory so much that you're determined not to let facts get in the way of it. Or possibly you're just bad with numbers.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Element59

  312. In his early performing days, Marilyn Manson (Brian Warner) says he was asked if he or his bandmates were Jewish. He was advised that, “Jews got to stick together”.

    He lied and said yes to get a better deal.

  313. @Anon
    @prosa123

    I've read his autopsy report, and judging from that alone, it was murder.

    Replies: @Angharad

    Looks like Chiba did it. FYI Asian Caucasian hybrids tend to suffer a high proportion of mental illness, since the gene expression goes in polar opposite directions. Chiba must be very well connected. It doesn’t seem like the authorities were interested in investigating a homicide at all.

  314. @Rocker
    That list is totally lame. They left out:

    Eddie Cochran
    Chuck Berry
    Bo Diddley
    The Coasters
    James Brown
    Johnny Otis
    Everly Brothers
    Jerry Lee Lewis
    Hank Ballard & The Midnighters
    Ritchie Valens
    Jackie Wilson
    Carl Perkins
    The Diamonds
    Dion and the Belmonts
    The Shirelles
    The Isley Brothers

    Little Richard !!!

    and we haven't even gotten to the 1960's yet; or is "Summertime Blues" not "rock?" No Jews though.

    Replies: @mark green

    That list is totally lame. They left out:

    The Moody Blues as well as Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young (individually, or collectively) should have been on the list, too.

    • Replies: @Rocker
    @mark green

    Everyone in my list was performing in the 1950's.

  315. @Curle
    @Brás Cubas

    “Blue Oyster Cult, a relatively obscure band”

    A quibble, but you must be below a certain age. For people upright and conscious in the late seventies, they were not obscure.

    Replies: @Che Guava

    I am not a fan, but at least in Japan, BoC has a heavily influenced band, very young when they started, ten or so years ago, and to prove the point, the person telling me that used the BoC influence for criticism.

    I hadn’t even noticed, but did after that talk.

  316. “the generally terrible Randy Newman”

    Just the opposite. If there’s another popular musician since the ‘60s this side of Lynyrd who has written both sympathetically, and at times not about the people of the South I don’t know who it is. BTW – this song carries heavy overtones of the wonderful Stephen Foster.

  317. @the one they call Desanex
    There’s Simon and Garfunkel, Howard Kaylan of the Turtles (Volman was half-Jewish), Neil Diamond, Mama Cass, Eric Bloom of BOC, Amy Winehouse, and, of course, Donald Fagen of Steely Dan. Fagen is my #1 Jewish rock star. Does Jerry Garcia count? He looked Jewish, and his parents named him after Jerome Kern.

    Replies: @the one they call Desanex, @Art Deco, @Anon, @bomag, @Emil Nikola Richard, @MEH 0910

    A Deadhead once informed me that Garcia was part Spanish via Cuba and part Irish. I believe Garcia’s grandfather was some kind of big shot union activist back in the day. Don’t know which is true since my Deadhead acquaintance had been a pretty hardcore San Francisco hippy.

    • Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil
    @Anon

    Garcia's father was an immigrant from Spain and it's certainly possible he was descended from conversos. He was an old-school immigrant who was psyched to become an American and insisted on being called Joe not Jose. His mother was of Swedish descent.

    Replies: @BB753

  318. Corn says:
    @MGB
    @SFG

    That’s a book that needs to be written. All of the thieving rock star managers. I think it was Gene Simmons who told a story about a prospective management team talking in Hebrew about how they were going to ‘gut him like fish’, only to find out he understood.

    Replies: @Corn

    Allegedly, the “gutter” was Haim Saban. The story goes Haim Saban and a fellow Israeli associate or underling were meeting with Simmons to negotiate a management or merchandising rights contract.

    At one point Saban turned to his associate and said “This is where we gut him” in Hebrew. Simmons then bolted up, said “Hey assholes, I’m one of you!” in Hebrew, and walked out of the meeting.

  319. @njguy73
    @PiltdownMan

    To paraphrase Lenny Bruce, if you're from New Jersey, even if you're Gentile, you're Jewish. And if you live in Idaho, even if you're Jewish, you're goyishe.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    As a life-long resident of New Jersey, I’ve always felt culturally Jewish, even though I’m not a member of the tribe

    • Replies: @Satanic6Music6Industry6
    @ScarletNumber

    I once ( not that long ago ) saw a woman in a grocery store wearing a t shirt that said on it :



    <b> I'm not screaming I'm from New Jersey

  320. @Spect3r
    Lenny Kravitz?

    Replies: @BB753

    Kravitz is only Jewish on his paternal side, so he doesn’t qualify as a Jew, lol!

  321. @Anon
    @prime noticer

    Not really accurate. If you look over all the names surfaced in this discussion you’ll see that something like eight to ten percent of the top rock/pop acts during the great golden age of pop/rock (say 1960-2000 or so) were Jewish. Then many many more behind the scenes musicians were. To take one small example almost all Brian Wilson’s musicians for his great Pet Sounds were Jewish, they were LA session musicians (the “wrecking crew”) who also contributed to many other albums around this time

    So it’s closer to 4-5 times overrepresented. This only looks small compared to Jewish overrepresentation in certain other fields

    Replies: @kahein

    this is crazy good take. dudes like hal blaine constitute the behind-the-scenes link between emerging rock culture in the 50s and 60s and its roots in swing and jazz culture — which was heavily populated and influenced by jews. this goes way over the head of the bob seger types here

  322. anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:

    A man I once knew, who’s now passed, told me about how he was at a family wedding in England many years ago and one of his relatives said that Mick would soon be arriving. He asked who Mick was and the relative told him that it was Mick Jagger. The man was very surprised that Mick Jagger was a relative. My acquaintance was well aware that he had Jewish background through his mother who was a Jagger, but not that he was related to Mick.

  323. @xyzxy
    Jews run the show. Anent your recent blurb on Brian Wilson's birthday-- after Wilson began to experience severe mental problems and his creativity ceased, father Murry sold the rights to his son's music to Jerry Moss's Irving Almo Music operation. Brian was mentally unable to consent (according to a later court ruling), which was the subject of a subsequent suit.

    Story has it that Abraham Somers, who negotiated the deal to transfer ownership and was the Beach Boys attorney at the time, was also on the Irving Music payroll, as a director.

    [BTW, Jerry Moss (who co-founded A&M records with Herb Alpert) was big in horse racing, and was Commissioner of the California Horse Racing Board. His wife was a board member of the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA. These people are everywhere, but often 'behind the scenes' and active in ways you don't at first suspect.]

    Later, when Brian was in the process of 'recovery', his Jewish 'doctor' Gene Landy convinced patient Brian to let him be his manager, with song writing and royalty credits.

    Recently, the Beach Boys catalog was sold to another Irving, Irving Azloff. You can't make this stuff up.

    Replies: @Joe Paluka

    “These people are everywhere, but often ‘behind the scenes’ and active in ways you don’t at first suspect.”

    This is one of the main reasons we are so &%\$#ed up in the west.

  324. @Known Fact
    Dude! I was just rocking some Lee Aaron to Celebrate Canada Day -- I can't vouch for her adult lifestyle but Canada's Metal Queen was born Jewish (Aaron is a stage name, I think she was born Karen Greening. She lacks the classic Jewish schnoz due to a teen-age auto accident).

    The only question is, which inane 80s vid to pick here -- I like this one where the alpha male is in a prison cell but still gets to have a motorcycle

    https://youtu.be/87YqXvbV-Vw

    Google also lists Lesley Gore -- actually Lesley Sue Goldstein!

    Replies: @Joe Paluka

    Never heard of Lee Aaron and I thought I knew Canadian rock stars as much as I know our own here in the states. When I think of a real rocking Canadian female rock singer of the 70’s/80’s, I think of this lady Darby Mills.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Joe Paluka

    Thanks, I do remember The Headpins. Lee Aaron was big in the late 80s in Canada --There's even a concert clip on YT with fellow Canadian John Candy presenting her with a Vid of the Year award. But sadly she left her pop-metal persona behind to do jazz, cabaret and grown-up adult rock about women's feelings and stuff like that.

  325. That one guy in Fun who shacked up with Lena Dunham thus misunderstanding the entire point of being a rock star.

  326. @Anon
    @Anonymous

    Ah yes, Ron Jeremy, Mr. Longdick. The hedgehog porn star. Real name Ron Hyatt. Last I heard Ron was on his way to prison or is in prison for rape. I believe he hails from the hotel dynasty.

    Replies: @Joe Paluka

    Ron Jeremy’s also the nephew of Grandpa Munster.

  327. @Steve Sailer
    @Malcolm X-Lax

    Frank Zappa sounds like an Americanized version of Franz Kafka.

    Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax, @Joe Paluka

    Zappa translated means “hoe” in English.

  328. @jason y
    Drake and Bruno Mars are both part Jewish, so at least 10% of the top 20 most listened to artists on Spotify are Jews.

    KISS has 2x as many listens as Bob Dylan. I haven't checked but I'd guess among those under 30, say, the ratio is higher. Bob Dylan doesn't hold up at all. "I Was Made For Loving You," on the other hand, does.

    Replies: @diva, @Bardon Kaldlan

    Drake and Bruno Mars are not rock stars; neither is Madonna.

  329. Rock, ballads, whatever. The peak of musical expression in the last century was funk. And one of the masters of funk is Don Fagenson who performed as Don Was of “Was Not Was”. Fagenson is one of the funkiest bassists the good Lord ever created (besides being a leading music producer) and he is most certainly Jewish. Put on the headphones and turn up the bass.

  330. And speaking of Jewish rockers, how about “Fountains of Wayne”s Adam Schlesinger (may he Rest In Peace)?

  331. @Curle
    @Wade Hampton

    I almost stopped reading at this particular admission of bad taste: “the generally terrible Randy Newman.”

    Replies: @Wade Hampton

    My sainted Father used to say “some people’s taste is all in their mouth.” Here’s another example of Newman’s genius.

    • Agree: Curle
  332. Robby Krieger wrote most of the Doors’ Top 40 hits, including Light My Fire

  333. Jews mostly just talk. And talk. And talk.

    Sometimes they see. Sometimes they hear.

    But mostly they just talk

  334. Anonymous[401] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dandy Wine
    @michael droy

    She’s all Italian, as are many of the top female pop stars of today like Lady Gaga and Ariana Grande. The only notable female Jewish pop stars of the last 20 years are P!nk and Doja Cat.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    She’s half Italian half French Canadian. Feels like those clickbait “Madonna and Ellen DeGeneres are related!” articles appear like twice a year at least. Yeah, they and every other North American of French colonial descent.

    Guess you’re not counting Amy Winehouse as pop (among other things)? Definitely more notable than either Pink or (so far) Doja Cat.

    • Replies: @Dandy Wine
    @Anonymous

    P!nk is significantly more successful but she never attained the iconic status Amy has, so in a way you’re right.

  335. @Mike Tre
    @Wilkey

    You have to kidding:

    Bob Dylan
    Neil Diamond
    David Lee Roth - Van Halen
    Ric Ocasik - The Cars
    Simon and Garfunkel
    The moronic Clash frontman
    David Draiman - Disturbed
    Geddy Lee - Rush
    Steven Alder - GnR
    Even Seinfeld - Biohazard (also a former porn star)
    Marty Friedman - Megadeth
    Dan Spietz, Scott Ion and Dan Lilker - Anthrax
    Daisy Berkowitz - Marilyn Manson
    Eric Bloom - BOC
    Robert Bourdon and Brad Delson - Linkin Park
    David Rashbaum - Bon Jovi
    Perry Ferrell - Jane's Addiction and creator of the massive globohomo music monstrosity known as Lollapallooza
    Hillel Slovak - RHCP's original guitarist - died of a heroin OD
    Dee Snyder and JJ French of Twisted Sister
    Traci Guns - LA Guns
    Max Weinberg - drummer for Bruce Springsteen
    Jay Weinberg - drummer for Slipknot and son of Max Weinberg (there's no such thing as jewish nepotism)
    Michael Portney - Dream Theater
    Stanley Bert Eisen and Chaim Witz of KISS
    All three members of The Beastie Boys
    Rick Rubin - one of the most sought after rock record producer's of the 80's and 90's.

    Ok I'm bored - but the premise is laughable false.

    I'm not even getting into the more mainstream pop because I don't care enough about it to know, but every one mentioned above achieved at least some long standing success as a rock star.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Amasius, @Matt Buckalew

    This list reads a lot like Jewish contributions to sports. It’s not very impressive and I enjoy how much you clearly have a complex about it.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Matt Buckalew

    It's not my complex. Sailer's complaining about jewish rock stars being under represented which is an absurd contention. But like a few others said maybe he's just trolling his base to amuse himself.

    And if you think jewish representation in sports is similar to that in pop music then it's clear you don't know much about either.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

  336. @Anon
    @kahein

    LMFAO Jewish cope. Is this for real? Idk if Sammy Hagar is jewish btw, he might be one of those gentiles that people assume is Jewish but isn't actually. Jews trying to get away with Stolen Valor!

    No but seriously Jewish achievement in Rock and Roll is a lot lower than Jewish achievement in many other fields. no need to feel all that inferior, just feel a little bit inferior.

    Replies: @Matt Buckalew

    When Uncle Avi can’t get you the internship all of sudden for no reason at all Jews looked mediocre. Good thing they are such stoics.

  337. Anonymous[261] • Disclaimer says:

    Missed the edit window, but Winehouse was also kind of interesting to me for coming from a pretty working class Jewish background.

  338. I don’t get the appeal of Bob Dylan. He can’t sing, his music is pedestrian, his songs are goofy, and he looks like a yard gnome in need of a shower.

    I still like some music from my youth, but I understand that most if it was nothing special. The world might be a better place if Boomers could admit that the music and pop culture of their youth was just as bad and contrived as everything since.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @OilcanFloyd

    He's got 10-15 permanent songs.

    Replies: @OilcanFloyd

  339. @Tom Scarlett
    Simon and Garfunkel, Carole King, Lou Reed, some of Jefferson Airplane, Beastie Boys. Apparently the great Paul Westerberg is not, despite the name. Bette Midler? Maybe the problem is that Jewish creativity is mostly smart-ass irony and rock takes itself very seriously.

    Replies: @Ganderson, @Another Steve

    Westerberg is Jewish, but married a got and more or less abandoned the tribe. If you know The Replacements’ history it all kind of makes sense.

    From Paul Westerberg’s live journal circa 2003:

    “Just a little side note, in case you haven’t come this “conclusion,” I didn’t start celebrating Christmas until I met the wife, as Westerberg is a very Jewish name and I have a very Jewish nose. I grew up only experiencing Hanukkah and when I hit about 25, she had turned me around.“

    (westerberg-paul dot livejournal dot com)

  340. @Anonymous
    @Dandy Wine

    She's half Italian half French Canadian. Feels like those clickbait "Madonna and Ellen DeGeneres are related!" articles appear like twice a year at least. Yeah, they and every other North American of French colonial descent.

    Guess you're not counting Amy Winehouse as pop (among other things)? Definitely more notable than either Pink or (so far) Doja Cat.

    Replies: @Dandy Wine

    P!nk is significantly more successful but she never attained the iconic status Amy has, so in a way you’re right.

  341. @Anonymous
    I love how one half of this thread is people listing a large number of Jewish rock stars, and the other half is people trying to come up with reasons for the "underrepresentation".

    People really tend to forget Jews are only 2.5% of the US population, less than 1.5% of Canada, and some 0.5% of the UK. And that's with Haredim included.

    There's no underrepresentation here. Quite the opposite.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘There’s no underrepresentation here. Quite the opposite.’

    Perhaps. But the extent to which Jews are overrepresented varies spectacularly from field to field.

  342. Anonymous[197] • Disclaimer says:
    @Element59
    @pirelli

    There's some difficulty here with objectively defining examples of "rock stars" in the context that Steve's probably thinking of.

    Many commenters here are offering up Neil Diamond, Billy Joel, Paul Simon, or maybe one member of a true "rock" band like David Lee Roth as undermining Steve's premise. But for the most part, I wouldn't consider Diamond, Joel, or Simon as classic "rock star" archetypes, they're more like soft rock, or pop-rock, or folk-rock singer/songwriters.

    Think of the the dozens of absolutely huge hard rock bands and solo rock stars over the decades and how few Jews there are among this massive lot compared to say the pop song writers, producers, and record label big wigs; The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, Metallica, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Nirvana, Queen, U2, AC/DC, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, The Eagles, The Doors, The Grateful Dead...heck even soft rock-pop acts like Fleetwood Mac and the Bee Gees were absolutely huge at their peaks...and almost all of them are Jewless Anglo-Saxons.

    Perhaps this ethnic pattern stems from a peculiar strain of hyper individualism and rugged autonomy that exists more among white, Anglo Saxon gentiles - a less group-oriented psychology that produces egocentric rebels and individualist social risk takers compared to the hyper ethnocentric collectivist strain that exists in the shrewd Ashkenazim psychology.

    If true, one could correctly predict that the authentic "rock star" persona and lifestyle would have very few Jews. The group psychological foundations that would produce this kind of rugged hyper individual rock star are just not that commonly found among Jews. This is probably why you get proportionately more "intellectual" folk rocker/song writer types produced among the Jews like a Dylan or a Simon than say the hard rocker, larger-than-life types like a Mick Jagger or a Ozzy Osbourne.

    Dylan and Simon wrote relatively complex lyrics and arrangements targeting social issues, or deep-seated anxieties about social structures (structures built by gentiles) and their music was motivated to undermine those. Whereas the Anglo hard rockers focused more on frustrated relationships and angsts of love and unleashing raw sexual desires - more motivated by raw innate desires that channeled into their music and attaining scores of hot women rather than crafting the complex oratories on dismantling injustices and social structures by the more goofy looking Jewish "rockers".

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous

    Think of the the dozens of absolutely huge hard rock bands and solo rock stars over the decades and how few Jews there are among this massive lot compared to say the pop song writers, producers, and record label big wigs; The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, Metallica, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Nirvana, Queen, U2, AC/DC, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, The Eagles, The Doors, The Grateful Dead…heck even soft rock-pop acts like Fleetwood Mac and the Bee Gees were absolutely huge at their peaks…and almost all of them are Jewless Anglo-Saxons.

    More than half of your examples are from the UK, Ireland and Australia, countries where, as hard as it may be to believe, Jews are less than 0.5% of the population. In Ireland’s case there are hardly any at all.

    In the US they’re a bit more than 2%, but ultimately, almost all of the population of any country but Israel is “Jewless”, as you put it. So, everything else being equal, that’s what you’d expect of bands, too.

    (Btw, these bands with Italian, Polish, Spanish, Irish, Scandinavian, Filipino, Parsi, Greek, Mexican, and yes, Jewish, members can hardly be said, as a group, to be “almost all” Anglo-Saxon. Majority Anglo-Saxon, sure. Again, just like the US, and especially UK and Australian, population of those generations.)

    Yet even with Jews being such a teeny tiny demographic, there are plenty of examples of proper rock stars and punk icons in this thread.

    Think you like your rebellious Anglo-Saxon theory so much that you’re determined not to let facts get in the way. Or possibly you’re just bad with numbers.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Anonymous


    Think you like your rebellious Anglo-Saxon theory so much...
     
    I think he had a pretty apt comment.

    Even though there are noted Filipino and Parsi rockers, the influence is notably Anglo-Saxon; creators of whole genres of popular music.

    I'd break it down even further, and give more credit to Scottish Highlanders who pressed marches and martial music into popular forms.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

  343. Anonymous[386] • Disclaimer says:
    @Element59
    @pirelli

    There's some difficulty here with objectively defining examples of "rock stars" in the context that Steve's probably thinking of.

    Many commenters here are offering up Neil Diamond, Billy Joel, Paul Simon, or maybe one member of a true "rock" band like David Lee Roth as undermining Steve's premise. But for the most part, I wouldn't consider Diamond, Joel, or Simon as classic "rock star" archetypes, they're more like soft rock, or pop-rock, or folk-rock singer/songwriters.

    Think of the the dozens of absolutely huge hard rock bands and solo rock stars over the decades and how few Jews there are among this massive lot compared to say the pop song writers, producers, and record label big wigs; The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, Metallica, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Nirvana, Queen, U2, AC/DC, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, The Eagles, The Doors, The Grateful Dead...heck even soft rock-pop acts like Fleetwood Mac and the Bee Gees were absolutely huge at their peaks...and almost all of them are Jewless Anglo-Saxons.

    Perhaps this ethnic pattern stems from a peculiar strain of hyper individualism and rugged autonomy that exists more among white, Anglo Saxon gentiles - a less group-oriented psychology that produces egocentric rebels and individualist social risk takers compared to the hyper ethnocentric collectivist strain that exists in the shrewd Ashkenazim psychology.

    If true, one could correctly predict that the authentic "rock star" persona and lifestyle would have very few Jews. The group psychological foundations that would produce this kind of rugged hyper individual rock star are just not that commonly found among Jews. This is probably why you get proportionately more "intellectual" folk rocker/song writer types produced among the Jews like a Dylan or a Simon than say the hard rocker, larger-than-life types like a Mick Jagger or a Ozzy Osbourne.

    Dylan and Simon wrote relatively complex lyrics and arrangements targeting social issues, or deep-seated anxieties about social structures (structures built by gentiles) and their music was motivated to undermine those. Whereas the Anglo hard rockers focused more on frustrated relationships and angsts of love and unleashing raw sexual desires - more motivated by raw innate desires that channeled into their music and attaining scores of hot women rather than crafting the complex oratories on dismantling injustices and social structures by the more goofy looking Jewish "rockers".

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous

    Think of the the dozens of absolutely huge hard rock bands and solo rock stars over the decades and how few Jews there are among this massive lot compared to say the pop song writers, producers, and record label big wigs; The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, Metallica, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Nirvana, Queen, U2, AC/DC, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, The Eagles, The Doors, The Grateful Dead…heck even soft rock-pop acts like Fleetwood Mac and the Bee Gees were absolutely huge at their peaks…and almost all of them are Jewless Anglo-Saxons.

    More than half of your examples are from the UK, Ireland and Australia, countries where, as hard as it may be to believe, Jews are less than 0.5% of the population. In Ireland’s case there are hardly any at all.

    In the US they’re a bit more than 2%, but ultimately, almost all of the population of any country but Israel is “Jewless”, as you put it. So, everything else being equal, that’s what you’d expect of bands, too.

    (Btw, these bands with Italian, Polish, Spanish, Irish, Scandinavian, Filipino, Parsi, Greek, Mexican, and yes, Jewish, members can hardly be said, as a group, to be “almost all” Anglo-Saxon. Majority Anglo-Saxon, sure. Again, just like the US, and especially UK and Australian, population of those generations.)

    Yet even with Jews being such a teeny tiny demographic, there are plenty of examples of proper rock stars and punk icons in this thread.

    Think you like your rebellious Anglo-Saxon theory so much that you’re determined not to let facts get in the way of it. Or possibly you’re just bad with numbers.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    It would be interesting to go through top American rock stars and look for, say, Italians. The generation right before rock and roll was dominated by Italian crooners like Sinatra.

    My impression is that The Sixties knocked Italian-Americans for a loop. They just didn't get all the hippy dippy flower power stuff. Finally, Italians made a huge comeback in the 1970s in American pop culture.

    Maybe Jews were like Italians: the High Sixties were more of a Celtic/Anglo-Saxon/Germanic thing. Being smart, during this peak era, Jews could manage bands, run record labels, have some hit records, but they just weren't quite at the highest level of creativity in the 1965-74 peak era, other than Dylan, who remains mysterious and sui generis.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Element59
    @Anonymous

    None-the-less, these mostly Angl0-American acts spanning a couple of decades of peak rock era music were the global rock superstars - icons of the whole rock music world that were largely spawned by a particular ethnic strain.

    The fact that they're predominately of Anglo-Saxon/Germanic ethnic origins with some minor individual exceptions (Roth, Mercury, Garcia - ie., one member of a group), still demonstrates the curious dearth of Jewish stars in this specific music domain.

    Given the population of Jews in the UK or in America where the rock music epicenters were, Jews may barely be at population representation levels as the "rock stars", but were vastly overrepresented as the behind-the-scenes music execs, not as the faces of rock or its superstar creative core. Who managed the Beatles vs. who created and performed the music?

    Jews are clearly overrepresented as superstar musicians in the domains of composers and lyricists. Certainly not as the "rock stars".

    Your arguments validate this observation, not undermines it.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Anonymous

  344. @Anonymous
    @Element59


    Think of the the dozens of absolutely huge hard rock bands and solo rock stars over the decades and how few Jews there are among this massive lot compared to say the pop song writers, producers, and record label big wigs; The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, Metallica, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Nirvana, Queen, U2, AC/DC, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, The Eagles, The Doors, The Grateful Dead…heck even soft rock-pop acts like Fleetwood Mac and the Bee Gees were absolutely huge at their peaks…and almost all of them are Jewless Anglo-Saxons.
     
    More than half of your examples are from the UK, Ireland and Australia, countries where, as hard as it may be to believe, Jews are less than 0.5% of the population. In Ireland's case there are hardly any at all.

    In the US they're a bit more than 2%, but ultimately, almost all of the population of any country but Israel is "Jewless", as you put it. So, everything else being equal, that's what you'd expect of bands, too.

    (Btw, these bands with Italian, Polish, Spanish, Irish, Scandinavian, Filipino, Parsi, Greek, Mexican, and yes, Jewish, members can hardly be said, as a group, to be "almost all" Anglo-Saxon. Majority Anglo-Saxon, sure. Again, just like the US, and especially UK and Australian, population of those generations.)

    Yet even with Jews being such a teeny tiny demographic, there are plenty of examples of proper rock stars and punk icons in this thread.

    Think you like your rebellious Anglo-Saxon theory so much that you're determined not to let facts get in the way of it. Or possibly you're just bad with numbers.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Element59

    It would be interesting to go through top American rock stars and look for, say, Italians. The generation right before rock and roll was dominated by Italian crooners like Sinatra.

    My impression is that The Sixties knocked Italian-Americans for a loop. They just didn’t get all the hippy dippy flower power stuff. Finally, Italians made a huge comeback in the 1970s in American pop culture.

    Maybe Jews were like Italians: the High Sixties were more of a Celtic/Anglo-Saxon/Germanic thing. Being smart, during this peak era, Jews could manage bands, run record labels, have some hit records, but they just weren’t quite at the highest level of creativity in the 1965-74 peak era, other than Dylan, who remains mysterious and sui generis.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Steve Sailer

    “It would be interesting to go through top American rock stars and look for, say, Italians,”

    Probably should look at it from a broader perspective.

    https://crazyonclassicrock.com/2021/04/15/italian-rock-music-60s-and-70s/amp/

  345. @Matt Buckalew
    @Mike Tre

    This list reads a lot like Jewish contributions to sports. It’s not very impressive and I enjoy how much you clearly have a complex about it.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    It’s not my complex. Sailer’s complaining about jewish rock stars being under represented which is an absurd contention. But like a few others said maybe he’s just trolling his base to amuse himself.

    And if you think jewish representation in sports is similar to that in pop music then it’s clear you don’t know much about either.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Mike Tre

    I'm not complaining, I'm just saying I was surprised that it's not higher. At this point in life, I'm not that surprised that often, so when I am, I let you know.

    I've often pointed out that there's a particular rock star look involving high cheekbones -- Steven Tyler, David Bowie, Tom Petty, etc. (Not all rock stars have it: McCartney never did.) My guess is that it's sort of a morph for the kind of guy who doesn't elicit as much jealousy from other men because he looks too delicate to be a threat to steal your girl. But he is a huge threat.

    Perhaps Jews are less likely to have the classic rock star look?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Mike Tre, @Kylie

    , @Anonymous
    @Mike Tre

    Sailer’s complaining about jewish rock stars being under represented which is an absurd contention.

    Depends on how you look at it. At 2% of US population, Jews are certainly not underrepresented in Rock Music(and heavily represented in Broadway Music and the like).
    But what about relative to Jewish success in other areas?

    Granted, influence isn't merely a matter of numbers. Even if the vast majority of rock stars aren't Jews, some of the most influential and seminal figures were Jews, without whom Rock/Pop music would have been different. There's Brill Building and related Jewish composers who wrote a lot of songs that were sung by blacks and gentiles in the 50s and early 60s. They turned black styles into crossover music. There's Dylan and Paul Simon, which especially became dear to the generation through The Graduate. Robbie Robertson was half-Jewish.

    Same goes for film directors. The larger majority are gentiles, but Spielberg, Allen, Kubrick, Penn, and etc had an outsized impact on movie history.

    Rock music was taken most seriously in the 60s and 70s, but it mostly turned into a business.
    Someone with Dylan's talent would be stuck in a subculture.

  346. @Mike Tre
    @Matt Buckalew

    It's not my complex. Sailer's complaining about jewish rock stars being under represented which is an absurd contention. But like a few others said maybe he's just trolling his base to amuse himself.

    And if you think jewish representation in sports is similar to that in pop music then it's clear you don't know much about either.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    I’m not complaining, I’m just saying I was surprised that it’s not higher. At this point in life, I’m not that surprised that often, so when I am, I let you know.

    I’ve often pointed out that there’s a particular rock star look involving high cheekbones — Steven Tyler, David Bowie, Tom Petty, etc. (Not all rock stars have it: McCartney never did.) My guess is that it’s sort of a morph for the kind of guy who doesn’t elicit as much jealousy from other men because he looks too delicate to be a threat to steal your girl. But he is a huge threat.

    Perhaps Jews are less likely to have the classic rock star look?

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Steve Sailer

    Interesting (I've never thought on that).

    I'd say that high cheekbones are erotically attractive on females (in my opinion, self-evident), while in men they are either a sign of partly Asiatic heritage or- aristocracy.

    High cheekbones are, in my mind, correlated with aristocratic hauter among whites. Whether females (which class?) find them attractive is another question...

    Liszt

    https://images.universal-music.de/img/assets/255/255310/4/720/the-liszt-collection-ltd-edition.jpg

    Chopin

    https://i1.sndcdn.com/avatars-000396168642-d53agm-t500x500.jpg

    Valentino

    https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/3/1-rudolph-valentino-in-blood-and-sand-evelyn-zumaya.jpg

    Replies: @Anon

    , @Mike Tre
    @Steve Sailer

    Nuance.

    Perhaps you are referring more to what are considered rock icons, as opposed to mere rock stars, in which case I could see that (Dillon and Diamond are icons, and maybe even Roth and Staley and Simmons.) But as so many others have pointed out, jews are clearly over represented among the sort of standard issue rock star designation, as compared to their % within the total population.

    And high cheekbones or not, Tom Petty was an unattractive man. I ran into him once at the music resale store Jammin' Jersey in Reseda. He was also very short, which seems to be more common among standard rock stars. I don't consider Petty to be an icon, fwiw.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    , @Kylie
    @Steve Sailer

    "I’ve often pointed out that there’s a particular rock star look involving high cheekbones — Steven Tyler, David Bowie, Tom Petty, etc....My guess is that it’s sort of a morph for the kind of guy who doesn’t elicit as much jealousy from other men because he looks too delicate to be a threat to steal your girl. But he is a huge threat."

    I'd add Matt Bellamy to that list. He has the high cheekbones and is short and scrawny. But he's won the Sexiest Male award for several different years at the NME awards.

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:MuseO2140919-25_(48736144762)_(cropped).jpg

  347. @OilcanFloyd
    I don't get the appeal of Bob Dylan. He can't sing, his music is pedestrian, his songs are goofy, and he looks like a yard gnome in need of a shower.

    I still like some music from my youth, but I understand that most if it was nothing special. The world might be a better place if Boomers could admit that the music and pop culture of their youth was just as bad and contrived as everything since.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    He’s got 10-15 permanent songs.

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    @Bardon Kaldian


    He’s got 10-15 permanent songs.
     
    Which is pretty good for someone who isn't that talented. He's right up there with Vince Neil, except nobody claims that Vince Neil is talented.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

  348. @the one they call Desanex
    There’s Simon and Garfunkel, Howard Kaylan of the Turtles (Volman was half-Jewish), Neil Diamond, Mama Cass, Eric Bloom of BOC, Amy Winehouse, and, of course, Donald Fagen of Steely Dan. Fagen is my #1 Jewish rock star. Does Jerry Garcia count? He looked Jewish, and his parents named him after Jerome Kern.

    Replies: @the one they call Desanex, @Art Deco, @Anon, @bomag, @Emil Nikola Richard, @MEH 0910

    Thanks.

    Agree on Donald Fagen. Expected him to be mentioned sooner.

  349. @Anonymous
    @Element59


    Think of the the dozens of absolutely huge hard rock bands and solo rock stars over the decades and how few Jews there are among this massive lot compared to say the pop song writers, producers, and record label big wigs; The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, Metallica, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Nirvana, Queen, U2, AC/DC, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, The Eagles, The Doors, The Grateful Dead…heck even soft rock-pop acts like Fleetwood Mac and the Bee Gees were absolutely huge at their peaks…and almost all of them are Jewless Anglo-Saxons.
     
    More than half of your examples are from the UK, Ireland and Australia, countries where, as hard as it may be to believe, Jews are less than 0.5% of the population. In Ireland's case there are hardly any at all.

    In the US they're a bit more than 2%, but ultimately, almost all of the population of any country but Israel is "Jewless", as you put it. So, everything else being equal, that's what you'd expect of bands, too.

    (Btw, these bands with Italian, Polish, Spanish, Irish, Scandinavian, Filipino, Parsi, Greek, Mexican, and yes, Jewish, members can hardly be said, as a group, to be "almost all" Anglo-Saxon. Majority Anglo-Saxon, sure. Again, just like the US, and especially UK and Australian, population of those generations.)

    Yet even with Jews being such a teeny tiny demographic, there are plenty of examples of proper rock stars and punk icons in this thread.

    Think you like your rebellious Anglo-Saxon theory so much that you're determined not to let facts get in the way. Or possibly you're just bad with numbers.

    Replies: @bomag

    Think you like your rebellious Anglo-Saxon theory so much…

    I think he had a pretty apt comment.

    Even though there are noted Filipino and Parsi rockers, the influence is notably Anglo-Saxon; creators of whole genres of popular music.

    I’d break it down even further, and give more credit to Scottish Highlanders who pressed marches and martial music into popular forms.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @bomag

    It's worth debating whether rock music is more Anglo-Saxon or Celtic.

    It's definitely not French or Italian.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @J.Ross

    , @Anonymous
    @bomag


    I think he had a pretty apt comment.

    Even though there are noted Filipino and Parsi rockers, the influence is notably Anglo-Saxon; creators of whole genres of popular music.
     

    Well of course it wasn't the tiny handful of Filipinos and Parsis in the West at the time that started rock or created and dominated its genres. Or even the various "ethnic" whites. That's so obvious it hardly seems to be worth pointing out.

    His assertions were that 1) Jews are underrepresented as rock stars due to a "hyper ethnocentric collectivist strain" and that 2) the bands he chose as examples were "almost all Anglo-Saxon". Both are false.

    You can't explain Jewish underrepresentation through hyper ethnocentric collectivism when there's no actual Jewish underrepresentation to speak of. One might expect such a strain to lead to underrepresentation in this arena, but the facts just don't bear it out.

  350. @Steve Sailer
    @Mike Tre

    I'm not complaining, I'm just saying I was surprised that it's not higher. At this point in life, I'm not that surprised that often, so when I am, I let you know.

    I've often pointed out that there's a particular rock star look involving high cheekbones -- Steven Tyler, David Bowie, Tom Petty, etc. (Not all rock stars have it: McCartney never did.) My guess is that it's sort of a morph for the kind of guy who doesn't elicit as much jealousy from other men because he looks too delicate to be a threat to steal your girl. But he is a huge threat.

    Perhaps Jews are less likely to have the classic rock star look?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Mike Tre, @Kylie

    Interesting (I’ve never thought on that).

    I’d say that high cheekbones are erotically attractive on females (in my opinion, self-evident), while in men they are either a sign of partly Asiatic heritage or- aristocracy.

    High cheekbones are, in my mind, correlated with aristocratic hauter among whites. Whether females (which class?) find them attractive is another question…

    Liszt

    Chopin

    Valentino

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Bardon Kaldian


    I’d say that high cheekbones are erotically attractive on females (in my opinion, self-evident), while in men they are either a sign of partly Asiatic heritage or- aristocracy.
     
    Does Gigachad have high cheekbones?
  351. @Steve Sailer
    @Mike Tre

    I'm not complaining, I'm just saying I was surprised that it's not higher. At this point in life, I'm not that surprised that often, so when I am, I let you know.

    I've often pointed out that there's a particular rock star look involving high cheekbones -- Steven Tyler, David Bowie, Tom Petty, etc. (Not all rock stars have it: McCartney never did.) My guess is that it's sort of a morph for the kind of guy who doesn't elicit as much jealousy from other men because he looks too delicate to be a threat to steal your girl. But he is a huge threat.

    Perhaps Jews are less likely to have the classic rock star look?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Mike Tre, @Kylie

    Nuance.

    Perhaps you are referring more to what are considered rock icons, as opposed to mere rock stars, in which case I could see that (Dillon and Diamond are icons, and maybe even Roth and Staley and Simmons.) But as so many others have pointed out, jews are clearly over represented among the sort of standard issue rock star designation, as compared to their % within the total population.

    And high cheekbones or not, Tom Petty was an unattractive man. I ran into him once at the music resale store Jammin’ Jersey in Reseda. He was also very short, which seems to be more common among standard rock stars. I don’t consider Petty to be an icon, fwiw.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Mike Tre

    My theory was that rock stars tend to be short, which I came up with in the 1970s watching Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers jump around on stage. One of my Canadian readers collected a lot of data on this question. My vague recollection is that he proved country singers (e.g., Blake Shelton) tend to be tall.

    The size of Tom Petty's estate considered him to be a successful rock star.

    Petty was like if John Fogerty was good at entertainment industry decision making. Fogerty of Creedence was probably more talented than Petty, but he tended to get himself in unfortunate legal and business situations, while Petty tended to come out okay. E.g., both Creedence and Petty had signed unfortunate early record deals. Fogerty spent 10 or 12 years in lawsuits.

    In contrast, Petty came up with the brilliant strategy in the late 1970s of spending so much money in the studio on his third album "Damn the Torpedoes" that he was forced, FORCED to declare bankruptcy, allowing him to sign a more lucrative deal and then release the sensational-sounding album on which Jimmy Iovine and Bill Price had labored incessantly to put the microphones in exactly the perfect places.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    , @Anonymous
    @Mike Tre


    Dillon and Diamond are icons, and maybe even Roth and Staley and Simmons
     
    Not really a fan of either Roth or Simmons, but I don't think there's any maybe about it.

    Staley? Layne? I don't think he was Jewish.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

  352. @OFWHAP
    There's David Lee Roth.

    Replies: @OilcanFloyd

    There’s David Lee Roth.

    Roth had an uncle who was fairly big in the music business. I wonder if that’s why the VanHalen brothers picked him as their singer. Rock is full of people who can’t sing, but he really can’t sing.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @OilcanFloyd

    There's a lot more nepotism in rock than people realize. Slipknot's - a ridiculous hard rock / rap/ goth/ theater "band" - drummer is the son of Bruce Springsteen's longtime drummer.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @ScarletNumber

  353. Mike Gordon and Jon Fishman of Phish

  354. @Mike Tre
    @Steve Sailer

    Nuance.

    Perhaps you are referring more to what are considered rock icons, as opposed to mere rock stars, in which case I could see that (Dillon and Diamond are icons, and maybe even Roth and Staley and Simmons.) But as so many others have pointed out, jews are clearly over represented among the sort of standard issue rock star designation, as compared to their % within the total population.

    And high cheekbones or not, Tom Petty was an unattractive man. I ran into him once at the music resale store Jammin' Jersey in Reseda. He was also very short, which seems to be more common among standard rock stars. I don't consider Petty to be an icon, fwiw.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    My theory was that rock stars tend to be short, which I came up with in the 1970s watching Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers jump around on stage. One of my Canadian readers collected a lot of data on this question. My vague recollection is that he proved country singers (e.g., Blake Shelton) tend to be tall.

    The size of Tom Petty’s estate considered him to be a successful rock star.

    Petty was like if John Fogerty was good at entertainment industry decision making. Fogerty of Creedence was probably more talented than Petty, but he tended to get himself in unfortunate legal and business situations, while Petty tended to come out okay. E.g., both Creedence and Petty had signed unfortunate early record deals. Fogerty spent 10 or 12 years in lawsuits.

    In contrast, Petty came up with the brilliant strategy in the late 1970s of spending so much money in the studio on his third album “Damn the Torpedoes” that he was forced, FORCED to declare bankruptcy, allowing him to sign a more lucrative deal and then release the sensational-sounding album on which Jimmy Iovine and Bill Price had labored incessantly to put the microphones in exactly the perfect places.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Steve Sailer

    "The size of Tom Petty’s estate considered him to be a successful rock star."

    There's no question about that. Even many of the broke rock stars are/were still rock stars, just broke.

    Again, I'm attempting to distinguish between rock star and rock icon. Petty was unquestionably the former, not so much the latter.

  355. @bomag
    @Anonymous


    Think you like your rebellious Anglo-Saxon theory so much...
     
    I think he had a pretty apt comment.

    Even though there are noted Filipino and Parsi rockers, the influence is notably Anglo-Saxon; creators of whole genres of popular music.

    I'd break it down even further, and give more credit to Scottish Highlanders who pressed marches and martial music into popular forms.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    It’s worth debating whether rock music is more Anglo-Saxon or Celtic.

    It’s definitely not French or Italian.

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Steve Sailer

    On a per capita basis, Sweden and Finland have become huge exporters of rock, especially metal. Every single Scandinavian male seems to be in a band, or at least doing the gloomy cover art

    Replies: @anon

    , @J.Ross
    @Steve Sailer

    Celtic. Definitely Celtic. The major subvariant is Bachian, so Germanic, and Germans are a species of Celt. But the guitar is just a big fiddle.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ycEXkNQlWs

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvaEJzoaYZk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Odqg6_k5E8

  356. @Bardon Kaldian
    @OilcanFloyd

    He's got 10-15 permanent songs.

    Replies: @OilcanFloyd

    He’s got 10-15 permanent songs.

    Which is pretty good for someone who isn’t that talented. He’s right up there with Vince Neil, except nobody claims that Vince Neil is talented.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @OilcanFloyd

    Well, at least some of his songs are dynamic & aurally catchy.

    Unlike, say, Leonard Cohen whose music is good for funerals only.

    Alright, alright...everyone is forgiven, considering what now passes for popular music:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X2Ixm-h6WI

    Replies: @OilcanFloyd

  357. Weren’t many of the band members of Jefferson Airplane Jewish or half-Jewish? Paul Kantner, Marty Balin, and Jorma Kaukonen were, AFAIK. They were about as seminal a rock band as there was. But that’s only one band, so it doesn’t falsify Mr. Sailer’s hypothesis.

    • Replies: @p38ace
    @PiltdownMan

    When I was young, Jefferson Airplane was considered to be Roman Catholics who went wild. Slick, Kanter, the bass player were all Catholics, Balwin was half Catholic, The lead guitarist was listed as Luthern, but I think he was Jewish. The drummer we are not certain on.
    My Catholic elementary school had a free weekly newsletter. In one issue, they had an interview with Paul Kanter. He liked being Roman Catholic.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  358. @Joe Paluka
    @Known Fact

    Never heard of Lee Aaron and I thought I knew Canadian rock stars as much as I know our own here in the states. When I think of a real rocking Canadian female rock singer of the 70's/80's, I think of this lady Darby Mills. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjC50QRAXfI

    Replies: @Known Fact

    Thanks, I do remember The Headpins. Lee Aaron was big in the late 80s in Canada –There’s even a concert clip on YT with fellow Canadian John Candy presenting her with a Vid of the Year award. But sadly she left her pop-metal persona behind to do jazz, cabaret and grown-up adult rock about women’s feelings and stuff like that.

  359. @Steve Sailer
    @bomag

    It's worth debating whether rock music is more Anglo-Saxon or Celtic.

    It's definitely not French or Italian.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @J.Ross

    On a per capita basis, Sweden and Finland have become huge exporters of rock, especially metal. Every single Scandinavian male seems to be in a band, or at least doing the gloomy cover art

    • Replies: @anon
    @Known Fact


    On a per capita basis, Sweden and Finland have become huge exporters of rock, especially metal. Every single Scandinavian male seems to be in a band, or at least doing the gloomy cover art
     
    Are Finns Scandinavian?

    Replies: @Known Fact

  360. @Steve Sailer
    @Mike Tre

    My theory was that rock stars tend to be short, which I came up with in the 1970s watching Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers jump around on stage. One of my Canadian readers collected a lot of data on this question. My vague recollection is that he proved country singers (e.g., Blake Shelton) tend to be tall.

    The size of Tom Petty's estate considered him to be a successful rock star.

    Petty was like if John Fogerty was good at entertainment industry decision making. Fogerty of Creedence was probably more talented than Petty, but he tended to get himself in unfortunate legal and business situations, while Petty tended to come out okay. E.g., both Creedence and Petty had signed unfortunate early record deals. Fogerty spent 10 or 12 years in lawsuits.

    In contrast, Petty came up with the brilliant strategy in the late 1970s of spending so much money in the studio on his third album "Damn the Torpedoes" that he was forced, FORCED to declare bankruptcy, allowing him to sign a more lucrative deal and then release the sensational-sounding album on which Jimmy Iovine and Bill Price had labored incessantly to put the microphones in exactly the perfect places.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    “The size of Tom Petty’s estate considered him to be a successful rock star.”

    There’s no question about that. Even many of the broke rock stars are/were still rock stars, just broke.

    Again, I’m attempting to distinguish between rock star and rock icon. Petty was unquestionably the former, not so much the latter.

  361. @Rohirrimborn
    @Dnought

    Disagree. The best Jewish guitarist was Peter Green.

    Replies: @p38ace

    I agree. I saw Peter Green in a small club in Chicago 25 years ago. It was one of the best performaces I have ever heard.

  362. @OilcanFloyd
    @Bardon Kaldian


    He’s got 10-15 permanent songs.
     
    Which is pretty good for someone who isn't that talented. He's right up there with Vince Neil, except nobody claims that Vince Neil is talented.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Well, at least some of his songs are dynamic & aurally catchy.

    Unlike, say, Leonard Cohen whose music is good for funerals only.

    Alright, alright…everyone is forgiven, considering what now passes for popular music:

    • Replies: @OilcanFloyd
    @Bardon Kaldian


    Alright, alright…everyone is forgiven, considering what now passes for popular music....
     
    That's awful! Even with women in bikinis, I couldn't watch more than a few seconds. Lots of work goes into making music that bad, if you can even call it music. I'd still bet that whoever is singing or playing the instruments is no less talented than Bob Dylan.
  363. @OilcanFloyd
    @OFWHAP


    There’s David Lee Roth.
     
    Roth had an uncle who was fairly big in the music business. I wonder if that's why the VanHalen brothers picked him as their singer. Rock is full of people who can't sing, but he really can't sing.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    There’s a lot more nepotism in rock than people realize. Slipknot’s – a ridiculous hard rock / rap/ goth/ theater “band” – drummer is the son of Bruce Springsteen’s longtime drummer.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Mike Tre


    There’s a lot more nepotism in rock than people realize. Slipknot’s – a ridiculous hard rock / rap/ goth/ theater “band” – drummer is the son of Bruce Springsteen’s longtime drummer.
     
    Is it “nepotism”—or is it genetics?

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    , @ScarletNumber
    @Mike Tre

    I had mentioned this upthread, but my favorite act of rock nepotism is that Jonah Hill [Feldstein's] father was the accountant for Guns N' Roses.

  364. Though like everywhere else, they are often over-praised by the Jewish rock press, witness the generally terrible Randy Newman as an example, and the good but over-rated Leonard Cohen as another.

    How terrible is Randy Newman?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Anon

    Not today, fed. You want my tax dollars, you're going to earn them. By listening to Randy Newman pretend he's that character from Tremé pretending he's Doctor John. Or just take in the opening sequence of Cop Rock.

    Replies: @Curle

  365. @PiltdownMan
    Weren't many of the band members of Jefferson Airplane Jewish or half-Jewish? Paul Kantner, Marty Balin, and Jorma Kaukonen were, AFAIK. They were about as seminal a rock band as there was. But that's only one band, so it doesn't falsify Mr. Sailer's hypothesis.

    https://youtu.be/VhTP_JW-jmw

    Replies: @p38ace

    When I was young, Jefferson Airplane was considered to be Roman Catholics who went wild. Slick, Kanter, the bass player were all Catholics, Balwin was half Catholic, The lead guitarist was listed as Luthern, but I think he was Jewish. The drummer we are not certain on.
    My Catholic elementary school had a free weekly newsletter. In one issue, they had an interview with Paul Kanter. He liked being Roman Catholic.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @p38ace


    When I was young, Jefferson Airplane was considered to be Roman Catholics who went wild. Slick, Kanter, the bass player were all Catholics, Balwin was half Catholic, The lead guitarist was listed as Luthern, but I think he was Jewish. The drummer we are not certain on.
    My Catholic elementary school had a free weekly newsletter. In one issue, they had an interview with Paul Kanter. He liked being Roman Catholic.
     
    Dryden (the drummer) was half Jewish and half English.

    Casady (the bass player) isn't Catholic at all. He's a quarter Jewish, a quarter Irish Protestant, and half WASP.

    Kaukonen and Balin both half Jewish (Kaukonen maternally, Balin paternally). Neither had any Catholic descent.

    I can't claim to know for sure, but I doubt Slick is Catholic, as she's of WASP and Scandinavian descent.

    That leaves Kantner as the only Catholic in the classic lineup of the band.
  366. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Steve Sailer

    Interesting (I've never thought on that).

    I'd say that high cheekbones are erotically attractive on females (in my opinion, self-evident), while in men they are either a sign of partly Asiatic heritage or- aristocracy.

    High cheekbones are, in my mind, correlated with aristocratic hauter among whites. Whether females (which class?) find them attractive is another question...

    Liszt

    https://images.universal-music.de/img/assets/255/255310/4/720/the-liszt-collection-ltd-edition.jpg

    Chopin

    https://i1.sndcdn.com/avatars-000396168642-d53agm-t500x500.jpg

    Valentino

    https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/3/1-rudolph-valentino-in-blood-and-sand-evelyn-zumaya.jpg

    Replies: @Anon

    I’d say that high cheekbones are erotically attractive on females (in my opinion, self-evident), while in men they are either a sign of partly Asiatic heritage or- aristocracy.

    Does Gigachad have high cheekbones?

  367. anonymous[387] • Disclaimer says:
    @Goatweed
    How are Brian Wilson and Frankie Valli not on this list.?

    Replies: @anonymous, @J.Ross

    How are Brian Wilson and Frankie Valli not on this list.?

    Were Wilson and Valli Jewish?

  368. @Steve Sailer
    @Mike Tre

    I'm not complaining, I'm just saying I was surprised that it's not higher. At this point in life, I'm not that surprised that often, so when I am, I let you know.

    I've often pointed out that there's a particular rock star look involving high cheekbones -- Steven Tyler, David Bowie, Tom Petty, etc. (Not all rock stars have it: McCartney never did.) My guess is that it's sort of a morph for the kind of guy who doesn't elicit as much jealousy from other men because he looks too delicate to be a threat to steal your girl. But he is a huge threat.

    Perhaps Jews are less likely to have the classic rock star look?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Mike Tre, @Kylie

    “I’ve often pointed out that there’s a particular rock star look involving high cheekbones — Steven Tyler, David Bowie, Tom Petty, etc….My guess is that it’s sort of a morph for the kind of guy who doesn’t elicit as much jealousy from other men because he looks too delicate to be a threat to steal your girl. But he is a huge threat.”

    I’d add Matt Bellamy to that list. He has the high cheekbones and is short and scrawny. But he’s won the Sexiest Male award for several different years at the NME awards.

  369. In an odd musical twist, the scrawny white alleged Highland Park shooter really is an aspiring rapper

    • LOL: Bardon Kaldian
  370. @Steve Sailer
    @bomag

    It's worth debating whether rock music is more Anglo-Saxon or Celtic.

    It's definitely not French or Italian.

    Replies: @Known Fact, @J.Ross

    Celtic. Definitely Celtic. The major subvariant is Bachian, so Germanic, and Germans are a species of Celt. But the guitar is just a big fiddle.

  371. @Sorel McRae
    @Wade Hampton

    He may be just a balladeer but Randy Newman sure hated White people! Here are the lyrics to "Rednecks":

    Last night, I saw Lester Maddox on a TV show
    With some smart ass New York Jew
    And the Jew laughed at Lester Maddox
    And the audience laughed at Lester Maddox too
    Well, he may be a fool, but he's our fool
    If they think they're better than him, they're wrong
    So I went to the park, and I took some paper along
    And that's where I made this song

    We talk real funny down here
    We drink too much and we laugh too loud
    We're too dumb to make it in no Northern town
    We're keepin' the niggers down

    We got no-necked oilmen from Texas
    Good ol' boys from Tennessee
    College men from LSU
    Went in dumb, come out dumb too
    Hustlin' 'round Atlanta in their alligator shoes
    Gettin' drunk every weekend at the barbecues
    They're keepin' the niggers down

    We're rednecks, rednecks
    We don't know our ass from a hole in the ground
    We're rednecks, we're rednecks
    We're keeping the niggers down


    Now, your northern nigga's a Negro
    You see, he's got his dignity
    Down here, we too ignorant to realize
    That the North has set the nigga free

    Yes, he's free to be put in a cage
    In Harlem in New York City
    And he's free to be put in a cage on the South-Side of Chicago
    And the West-Side
    And he's free to be put in a cage in Hough in Cleveland
    And he's free to be put in a cage in East St. Louis
    And he's free to be put in a cage in Fillmore in San Francisco
    And he's free to be put in a cage in Roxbury in Boston

    They're gatherin' 'em up from miles around
    Keepin' the niggers down

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Curle

    I remember that one, Sorel. From one year earlier, 1973 vs. ’74, the Atlanta Rhythm Section had a song called Redneck* on their Back up Against the Wall album. It was written by a guy named Joe South, from the Atlanta area too – he died up in Buford, GA to the NE of the city in Gwinnett County, formerly very White.

    I heard this one many years later when I got their Greatest Hits album. This sounded surprising from a Southern band and Southern songwriter, but as White as their areas were then (ARS was from Doraville), they had no idea what they might have to complain about later! Rednecks? Give me a break.

    Here are the lyrics for the whole song:

    Hey, redneck.
    Man, ain’t you cool, hey.
    Man about town, your hair slicked down,
    a little grease on your forehead.

    Well those things you say and do
    gonna make Papa real proud of you.
    Play football, hang around the pool hall,
    and cheat on exams.

    Hey, redneck.
    Pullin’ in at the drive-in,
    spend a little money, poke a lot of fun
    at people tryin’ to make a livin’.

    But you never did have much use
    for all these darkies, Dagos and Jews.
    Talk real loud, draw a big crowd.
    Baby, you what’s happenin’.
    Whoa, screw you.

    Hey, redneck.
    Goin’ down to the ghetto.
    A dollar’s worth of gas, heckle and harass
    all the hippies and the weirdos.

    Well you talk about havin’ fun.
    You a good time son of a gun.
    Four years of college, a little bit of knowledge,
    and outsmart the draft board.

    Hey hey hey, redneck,
    You’re All-American lover.
    When God said brain, you thought he said rain,
    and you ran for cover.

    Well I’ve done all that I can do,
    just tryin’ to get along with you.
    You’re too much, everything you touch
    turns to something else.

    Hey, redneck.
    You, redneck.
    Hey, redneck.
    You, redneck.
    Hey, redneck.
    All-American redneck…

    I had to correct the “AZ lyrics” for 5 minutes. Yeah, a dollah’s wortha gas. Must be nice!

    Joe South’s lyrics were more realistic than Randy Newman’s, though. They are written a a Southerner would see it.

    .

    * I remember it as “Hey, Redneck!”

  372. @Anon

    Though like everywhere else, they are often over-praised by the Jewish rock press, witness the generally terrible Randy Newman as an example, and the good but over-rated Leonard Cohen as another.
     
    How terrible is Randy Newman?

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Not today, fed. You want my tax dollars, you’re going to earn them. By listening to Randy Newman pretend he’s that character from Tremé pretending he’s Doctor John. Or just take in the opening sequence of Cop Rock.

    • Replies: @Curle
    @J.Ross

    “By listening to Randy Newman pretend he’s that character from Tremé”

    You refer to Dr. John who was jazz. Newman wasn’t jazz he was shuffle and Hollywood movie orchestration. His influences were pretty obvious, Stephen Foster and his three film score composer uncles three uncles: Alfred Newman, Lionel Newman and Emil Newman.

    Here’s Stephen Foster:












    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h4JpokLJ-vY

    Replies: @J.Ross

  373. @Goatweed
    How are Brian Wilson and Frankie Valli not on this list.?

    Replies: @anonymous, @J.Ross

    It took me a minute, sir, I didn’t get it at first, but by considering your name, you win the thread with this comment.

  374. @Bardon Kaldian
    @OilcanFloyd

    Well, at least some of his songs are dynamic & aurally catchy.

    Unlike, say, Leonard Cohen whose music is good for funerals only.

    Alright, alright...everyone is forgiven, considering what now passes for popular music:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X2Ixm-h6WI

    Replies: @OilcanFloyd

    Alright, alright…everyone is forgiven, considering what now passes for popular music….

    That’s awful! Even with women in bikinis, I couldn’t watch more than a few seconds. Lots of work goes into making music that bad, if you can even call it music. I’d still bet that whoever is singing or playing the instruments is no less talented than Bob Dylan.

  375. Anonymous[351] • Disclaimer says:
    @bomag
    @Anonymous


    Think you like your rebellious Anglo-Saxon theory so much...
     
    I think he had a pretty apt comment.

    Even though there are noted Filipino and Parsi rockers, the influence is notably Anglo-Saxon; creators of whole genres of popular music.

    I'd break it down even further, and give more credit to Scottish Highlanders who pressed marches and martial music into popular forms.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    I think he had a pretty apt comment.

    Even though there are noted Filipino and Parsi rockers, the influence is notably Anglo-Saxon; creators of whole genres of popular music.

    Well of course it wasn’t the tiny handful of Filipinos and Parsis in the West at the time that started rock or created and dominated its genres. Or even the various “ethnic” whites. That’s so obvious it hardly seems to be worth pointing out.

    His assertions were that 1) Jews are underrepresented as rock stars due to a “hyper ethnocentric collectivist strain” and that 2) the bands he chose as examples were “almost all Anglo-Saxon”. Both are false.

    You can’t explain Jewish underrepresentation through hyper ethnocentric collectivism when there’s no actual Jewish underrepresentation to speak of. One might expect such a strain to lead to underrepresentation in this arena, but the facts just don’t bear it out.

  376. Anonymous[129] • Disclaimer says:
    @p38ace
    @PiltdownMan

    When I was young, Jefferson Airplane was considered to be Roman Catholics who went wild. Slick, Kanter, the bass player were all Catholics, Balwin was half Catholic, The lead guitarist was listed as Luthern, but I think he was Jewish. The drummer we are not certain on.
    My Catholic elementary school had a free weekly newsletter. In one issue, they had an interview with Paul Kanter. He liked being Roman Catholic.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    When I was young, Jefferson Airplane was considered to be Roman Catholics who went wild. Slick, Kanter, the bass player were all Catholics, Balwin was half Catholic, The lead guitarist was listed as Luthern, but I think he was Jewish. The drummer we are not certain on.
    My Catholic elementary school had a free weekly newsletter. In one issue, they had an interview with Paul Kanter. He liked being Roman Catholic.

    Dryden (the drummer) was half Jewish and half English.

    Casady (the bass player) isn’t Catholic at all. He’s a quarter Jewish, a quarter Irish Protestant, and half WASP.

    Kaukonen and Balin both half Jewish (Kaukonen maternally, Balin paternally). Neither had any Catholic descent.

    I can’t claim to know for sure, but I doubt Slick is Catholic, as she’s of WASP and Scandinavian descent.

    That leaves Kantner as the only Catholic in the classic lineup of the band.

  377. @11B4P
    You forgot Joey Ramone, Getty Lee, Lou Reed the following is from Wikipedia, "his father had changed his name from Rabinowitz to Reed. Reed said that although he was Jewish, his “real god was rock 'n' roll“. and David Lee Roth. Manfred Mann was popular in the 60's (Manfred Sepse Lubowitz). The following is from Wikipedia. "Lubowitz was raised in a Lithuanian-Jewish family in Johannesburg, the son of David Lubowitz and Alma Cohen." I think there might be more than you realize.

    Replies: @BB753

    Americans mostly remember Lou Reed from his Velvet Underground days. But in Europe, in the 70’s, he became a genuine rock god after releasing his studio LPs “Transformer”, “Berlin” and his live album “Rock and Roll Animal”. A bit like Bob Dylan, he was good at writing songs, not so much at performing them. Lou had not much of a singing voice and was a mediocre guitar player. Though Rock and Roll Animal remains to this day one the best live rock albums of all time, perhaps due to Steve Hunter’s guitar solos.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @BB753

    I don't think this is true. While the Velvet Underground was an influential band in the US, they were never very popular. Lou's signature song (Walk on the Wild Side) came as a solo artist on Transformer.

  378. Anonymous[601] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike Tre
    @Steve Sailer

    Nuance.

    Perhaps you are referring more to what are considered rock icons, as opposed to mere rock stars, in which case I could see that (Dillon and Diamond are icons, and maybe even Roth and Staley and Simmons.) But as so many others have pointed out, jews are clearly over represented among the sort of standard issue rock star designation, as compared to their % within the total population.

    And high cheekbones or not, Tom Petty was an unattractive man. I ran into him once at the music resale store Jammin' Jersey in Reseda. He was also very short, which seems to be more common among standard rock stars. I don't consider Petty to be an icon, fwiw.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    Dillon and Diamond are icons, and maybe even Roth and Staley and Simmons

    Not really a fan of either Roth or Simmons, but I don’t think there’s any maybe about it.

    Staley? Layne? I don’t think he was Jewish.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Anonymous

    I meant to type Stanley, as in Paul.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  379. Anonymous[472] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike Tre
    @OilcanFloyd

    There's a lot more nepotism in rock than people realize. Slipknot's - a ridiculous hard rock / rap/ goth/ theater "band" - drummer is the son of Bruce Springsteen's longtime drummer.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @ScarletNumber

    There’s a lot more nepotism in rock than people realize. Slipknot’s – a ridiculous hard rock / rap/ goth/ theater “band” – drummer is the son of Bruce Springsteen’s longtime drummer.

    Is it “nepotism”—or is it genetics?

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Anonymous

    If you're suggesting that the ability to play the drums is inherited - well maybe it is. But as you tube has made clear the country is full of 10's of 1000's of insanely talented drummers who never made it past open mic night. Rock stardom is also populated by all sorts of mediocre musicians.

    I think it's pretty naive to think Max Weinberg wouldn't have passed his kid's band's demo tape along to some record company suits to give his band a start.

  380. @Anonymous
    @Element59


    Think of the the dozens of absolutely huge hard rock bands and solo rock stars over the decades and how few Jews there are among this massive lot compared to say the pop song writers, producers, and record label big wigs; The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Aerosmith, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, Metallica, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Nirvana, Queen, U2, AC/DC, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, The Eagles, The Doors, The Grateful Dead…heck even soft rock-pop acts like Fleetwood Mac and the Bee Gees were absolutely huge at their peaks…and almost all of them are Jewless Anglo-Saxons.
     
    More than half of your examples are from the UK, Ireland and Australia, countries where, as hard as it may be to believe, Jews are less than 0.5% of the population. In Ireland's case there are hardly any at all.

    In the US they're a bit more than 2%, but ultimately, almost all of the population of any country but Israel is "Jewless", as you put it. So, everything else being equal, that's what you'd expect of bands, too.

    (Btw, these bands with Italian, Polish, Spanish, Irish, Scandinavian, Filipino, Parsi, Greek, Mexican, and yes, Jewish, members can hardly be said, as a group, to be "almost all" Anglo-Saxon. Majority Anglo-Saxon, sure. Again, just like the US, and especially UK and Australian, population of those generations.)

    Yet even with Jews being such a teeny tiny demographic, there are plenty of examples of proper rock stars and punk icons in this thread.

    Think you like your rebellious Anglo-Saxon theory so much that you're determined not to let facts get in the way of it. Or possibly you're just bad with numbers.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Element59

    None-the-less, these mostly Angl0-American acts spanning a couple of decades of peak rock era music were the global rock superstars – icons of the whole rock music world that were largely spawned by a particular ethnic strain.

    The fact that they’re predominately of Anglo-Saxon/Germanic ethnic origins with some minor individual exceptions (Roth, Mercury, Garcia – ie., one member of a group), still demonstrates the curious dearth of Jewish stars in this specific music domain.

    Given the population of Jews in the UK or in America where the rock music epicenters were, Jews may barely be at population representation levels as the “rock stars”, but were vastly overrepresented as the behind-the-scenes music execs, not as the faces of rock or its superstar creative core. Who managed the Beatles vs. who created and performed the music?

    Jews are clearly overrepresented as superstar musicians in the domains of composers and lyricists. Certainly not as the “rock stars”.

    Your arguments validate this observation, not undermines it.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Element59

    Although I find this topic a bit odd (I'm currently reading a few books on philosophy & neurophysiology of music to sort things out in my mind- thanks Steve for rekindling my interest in the topic...
    https://m.media-amazon.com/images/P/0415858399.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_SX500_.jpg


    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81cMJhe2klL.jpg

    https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51YRsWBaG7L._SX341_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
    ), I'd say:

    a) Jews are a creative & distinguished minority in American society (and similar societies)

    b) they're over-represented in many areas, and when it comes to arts & entertainment, they're much more present as organizers, propagandists, critics, ... This is evident in most fields, for instance in literary, music, art criticism & journalism. You got much more, percentage-wise, Jewish screenwriters than film directors; more art historians than artists; more literary critics & theoreticians than authors....

    c) speaking on music & Jews- Richard Taruskin died just a few days ago

    , @Anonymous
    @Element59


    The fact that they’re predominately of Anglo-Saxon/Germanic ethnic origins with some minor individual exceptions (Roth, Mercury, Garcia – ie., one member of a group), still demonstrates the curious dearth of Jewish stars in this specific music domain.
     
    So you are bad with numbers.

    Also, you meant Germanic, not Anglo-Saxon? Okay, let's keep it simple and call them NW European, "Celts" included.

    Either way, more than half of the bands you chose are from places that were 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic when these people were being born. We might as well marvel at the fact that most rock stars in Spain are Spanish, that in Iceland they're Icelandic, or that in Lebanon they're Lebanese. All very shocking, and surely very meaningful.

    I'm not even making a claim that Germanic peoples (or all NW Europeans) don't have more of an aptitude for rock than other Europeans. But your observation of the bleeding obvious and fully expected is a silly way to go about proving it.


    The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Queen, U2, AC/DC, (most of) Fleetwood Mac and the Bee Gees
     
    Sure, the only "diversity" I can think of here is Mercury, Peter Green (Jewish), and partially Gers (half Polish) and Brian Johnson (half Italian), but there's nothing at all surprising about that given that these are all from what were at the time of their births basically Anglo-Saxon and Celtic ethnostates (and again, where Jews are a statistical error - a population only visible at all due to its superior abilities).

    So let's look at your picks from a country that wasn't 95%+ NW European in the decades these musicians were being born.


    Aerosmith, Metallica, Nirvana, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, The Eagles, The Doors, The Grateful Dead
     
    Tyler, Joe Perry, Joey Kramer (Jewish), Crespo, Tabano, Mustaine (half Jewish; only a short stint in Metallica but went on to form Megadeth), Hammett, Trujillo, Novoselic, Adler (Jewish), Slash, Bongiovi, David Bryan (Jewish), Tico Torres, Vince Neil, Tommy Lee, Nikki Sixx, Sambora, Manzarek, Krieger (Jewish), Garcia, Mickey Hart (Jewish)... In line with US demographics. Your assertion was ridiculous.

    Your arguments validate this observation, not undermines it.
     
    My argument, which is that you cherrypicked (or unthinkingly chose) a disproportionate number of bands from countries with vanishingly small numbers of Jews... validates your (baseless and amply contradicted in this very thread) claims that Jews are underrepresented? That's some logic you got there.

    Your reply, on the other hand, does validate both my suppositions about you - bad with numbers and determined to bend the facts to fit with your expectations.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Element59

  381. @Element59
    @Anonymous

    None-the-less, these mostly Angl0-American acts spanning a couple of decades of peak rock era music were the global rock superstars - icons of the whole rock music world that were largely spawned by a particular ethnic strain.

    The fact that they're predominately of Anglo-Saxon/Germanic ethnic origins with some minor individual exceptions (Roth, Mercury, Garcia - ie., one member of a group), still demonstrates the curious dearth of Jewish stars in this specific music domain.

    Given the population of Jews in the UK or in America where the rock music epicenters were, Jews may barely be at population representation levels as the "rock stars", but were vastly overrepresented as the behind-the-scenes music execs, not as the faces of rock or its superstar creative core. Who managed the Beatles vs. who created and performed the music?

    Jews are clearly overrepresented as superstar musicians in the domains of composers and lyricists. Certainly not as the "rock stars".

    Your arguments validate this observation, not undermines it.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Anonymous

    Although I find this topic a bit odd (I’m currently reading a few books on philosophy & neurophysiology of music to sort things out in my mind- thanks Steve for rekindling my interest in the topic…

    ), I’d say:

    a) Jews are a creative & distinguished minority in American society (and similar societies)

    b) they’re over-represented in many areas, and when it comes to arts & entertainment, they’re much more present as organizers, propagandists, critics, … This is evident in most fields, for instance in literary, music, art criticism & journalism. You got much more, percentage-wise, Jewish screenwriters than film directors; more art historians than artists; more literary critics & theoreticians than authors….

    c) speaking on music & Jews- Richard Taruskin died just a few days ago

  382. @Known Fact
    @Steve Sailer

    On a per capita basis, Sweden and Finland have become huge exporters of rock, especially metal. Every single Scandinavian male seems to be in a band, or at least doing the gloomy cover art

    Replies: @anon

    On a per capita basis, Sweden and Finland have become huge exporters of rock, especially metal. Every single Scandinavian male seems to be in a band, or at least doing the gloomy cover art

    Are Finns Scandinavian?

    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @anon

    Yeah I know they're considered just kind of quasi-Scandinavian, but musically they're right there with Sweden, maybe somewhat doomier. Russian groups too, actually -- the nexus is nowhere near Britain as it was decades ago

    Replies: @Anon

  383. @Brás Cubas
    @Brás Cubas

    I wrote, about Blue Oyster Cult:


    at least one other Jewish member.
     
    Not sure where I got that from, and it's apparently not true, as others have pointed out. It seems Eric Bloom is the only Jewish member (but I was right about the two non-members who wrote the songs being Jewish).

    Replies: @the one they call Desanex

    I’m a big fan of early Blue Öyster Cult (their first three albums; also the recordings they made for the Elektra label in 1969-70 when they were known as “Stalk-Forrest Group,” finally released in 2001 as St. Cecilia: The Elektra Recordings). With all the comments here about BÖC, I appreciate that nobody brought up that stupid, retarded SNL sketch about “more cowbell.” Thanks, you guys.

  384. @jason y
    Drake and Bruno Mars are both part Jewish, so at least 10% of the top 20 most listened to artists on Spotify are Jews.

    KISS has 2x as many listens as Bob Dylan. I haven't checked but I'd guess among those under 30, say, the ratio is higher. Bob Dylan doesn't hold up at all. "I Was Made For Loving You," on the other hand, does.

    Replies: @diva, @Bardon Kaldlan

    Bruno Mars does a great job of pretending to be black. Still that “Uptown Funk” was a very amusing video.
    There was a

    Jewish guy in the video,a Mark Something. I seem to recall his sister(?) was famous for something.

  385. @Anonymous
    @Mike Tre


    Dillon and Diamond are icons, and maybe even Roth and Staley and Simmons
     
    Not really a fan of either Roth or Simmons, but I don't think there's any maybe about it.

    Staley? Layne? I don't think he was Jewish.

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    I meant to type Stanley, as in Paul.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Mike Tre

    Haha thanks, given the rest of the sentence I really should've been able to figure it out on my own.

  386. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    It would be interesting to go through top American rock stars and look for, say, Italians. The generation right before rock and roll was dominated by Italian crooners like Sinatra.

    My impression is that The Sixties knocked Italian-Americans for a loop. They just didn't get all the hippy dippy flower power stuff. Finally, Italians made a huge comeback in the 1970s in American pop culture.

    Maybe Jews were like Italians: the High Sixties were more of a Celtic/Anglo-Saxon/Germanic thing. Being smart, during this peak era, Jews could manage bands, run record labels, have some hit records, but they just weren't quite at the highest level of creativity in the 1965-74 peak era, other than Dylan, who remains mysterious and sui generis.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “It would be interesting to go through top American rock stars and look for, say, Italians,”

    Probably should look at it from a broader perspective.

    https://crazyonclassicrock.com/2021/04/15/italian-rock-music-60s-and-70s/amp/

  387. @anon
    @Known Fact


    On a per capita basis, Sweden and Finland have become huge exporters of rock, especially metal. Every single Scandinavian male seems to be in a band, or at least doing the gloomy cover art
     
    Are Finns Scandinavian?

    Replies: @Known Fact

    Yeah I know they’re considered just kind of quasi-Scandinavian, but musically they’re right there with Sweden, maybe somewhat doomier. Russian groups too, actually — the nexus is nowhere near Britain as it was decades ago

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Known Fact

    I thought Finns were supposed to be closer to Hungarians.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  388. Anonymous[233] • Disclaimer says:
    @Element59
    @Anonymous

    None-the-less, these mostly Angl0-American acts spanning a couple of decades of peak rock era music were the global rock superstars - icons of the whole rock music world that were largely spawned by a particular ethnic strain.

    The fact that they're predominately of Anglo-Saxon/Germanic ethnic origins with some minor individual exceptions (Roth, Mercury, Garcia - ie., one member of a group), still demonstrates the curious dearth of Jewish stars in this specific music domain.

    Given the population of Jews in the UK or in America where the rock music epicenters were, Jews may barely be at population representation levels as the "rock stars", but were vastly overrepresented as the behind-the-scenes music execs, not as the faces of rock or its superstar creative core. Who managed the Beatles vs. who created and performed the music?

    Jews are clearly overrepresented as superstar musicians in the domains of composers and lyricists. Certainly not as the "rock stars".

    Your arguments validate this observation, not undermines it.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Anonymous

    The fact that they’re predominately of Anglo-Saxon/Germanic ethnic origins with some minor individual exceptions (Roth, Mercury, Garcia – ie., one member of a group), still demonstrates the curious dearth of Jewish stars in this specific music domain.

    So you are bad with numbers.

    Also, you meant Germanic, not Anglo-Saxon? Okay, let’s keep it simple and call them NW European, “Celts” included.

    Either way, more than half of the bands you chose are from places that were 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic when these people were being born. We might as well marvel at the fact that most rock stars in Spain are Spanish, that in Iceland they’re Icelandic, or that in Lebanon they’re Lebanese. All very shocking, and surely very meaningful.

    I’m not even making a claim that Germanic peoples (or all NW Europeans) don’t have more of an aptitude for rock than other Europeans. But your observation of the bleeding obvious and fully expected is a silly way to go about proving it.

    The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Queen, U2, AC/DC, (most of) Fleetwood Mac and the Bee Gees

    Sure, the only “diversity” I can think of here is Mercury, Peter Green (Jewish), and partially Gers (half Polish) and Brian Johnson (half Italian), but there’s nothing at all surprising about that given that these are all from what were at the time of their births basically Anglo-Saxon and Celtic ethnostates (and again, where Jews are a statistical error – a population only visible at all due to its superior abilities).

    So let’s look at your picks from a country that wasn’t 95%+ NW European in the decades these musicians were being born.

    Aerosmith, Metallica, Nirvana, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, The Eagles, The Doors, The Grateful Dead

    Tyler, Joe Perry, Joey Kramer (Jewish), Crespo, Tabano, Mustaine (half Jewish; only a short stint in Metallica but went on to form Megadeth), Hammett, Trujillo, Novoselic, Adler (Jewish), Slash, Bongiovi, David Bryan (Jewish), Tico Torres, Vince Neil, Tommy Lee, Nikki Sixx, Sambora, Manzarek, Krieger (Jewish), Garcia, Mickey Hart (Jewish)… In line with US demographics. Your assertion was ridiculous.

    Your arguments validate this observation, not undermines it.

    My argument, which is that you cherrypicked (or unthinkingly chose) a disproportionate number of bands from countries with vanishingly small numbers of Jews… validates your (baseless and amply contradicted in this very thread) claims that Jews are underrepresented? That’s some logic you got there.

    Your reply, on the other hand, does validate both my suppositions about you – bad with numbers and determined to bend the facts to fit with your expectations.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    But Jews were really big in American popular music before rock. I once looked up the composers of BMI's or ASCAP's top 25 biggest earning Christmas songs (mostly from about 1930-1960) and almost half were composed by Jews.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/jewish-songwriters-american-songs-143837609/

    I'm really coming around to the view that Jews, like Italians, were out of sync culturally with the classic long hair era of rock music (roughly 1965-1974). I once theorized that the hippie era was due to Northwest European encountering the Northern California climate and imagining a perpetual year round Mayday. Well, that dream didn't last long, but it had a powerful effect on pop music while it lasted.

    Guys like Jann Wenner probably didn't particularly want to admit it, but it was an era of northwest European values and styles, more so than the preceding and subsequent eras.

    Also, Anglophilia was rampant in the 1960s. The Brits were long much admired, but they were kind of beat down, broke, and depressing after WWII. By the 1960s, however, they had money. And British celebrities could now get to America by 707, so there was a big merger of the two countries' popular cultures for awhile.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Element59

    , @Element59
    @Anonymous


    Either way, more than half of the bands you chose are from places that were 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic when these people were being born. We might as well marvel at the fact that most rock stars in Spain are Spanish, that in Iceland they’re Icelandic, or that in Lebanon they’re Lebanese. All very shocking, and surely very meaningful.
     
    And? I didn't choose these acts in any specific order or preference. These acts from those 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic nations comprise a majority the biggest and best-known representatives in the history of the rock music genre that the world has ever heard.

    They exemplify the creative ingredients and sound that produced what we collectively call "rock music". So...why aren't we hearing equally great rock acts emerging from Spain or Lebanon or Israel or the Philippines? They've been hearing and imbibing this Western rock music for 2-3 generations now. Are they actually writing and playing "rock music" near the creative levels of any of those aforementioned acts?

    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we're just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons? Or, is is possible and reasonable to speculate, that the types of psychological and intellecutal traits that are required to be a gifted "rock musician" exist in some populations at such low frequencies that the likelihood of one ever emerging is negligible? I say yes, and I say that this also is a plausible hypothesis to explain the low number of Jews among the most successful and iconic rock acts in the world - and a Jewish overrepresentation among the greatest music composers and lyricists.

    My argument, which is that you cherrypicked (or unthinkingly chose) a disproportionate number of bands from countries with vanishingly small numbers of Jews… validates your (baseless and amply contradicted in this very thread) claims that Jews are underrepresented? That’s some logic you got there.
     
    The fact that these rock acts that I took just a couple of minutes to keyboard rattle off of the top of my head, and in no particular preference, form the foundations of The Pantheon of global "rock" music superstars, with almost all of them comprised largely of gentiles of NW European origins, appears to be lost on you.

    How many Jewish "rock stars" do you reckon belong in that pantheon among them? From anywhere? From any time?

    What about the great Jewish composers and lyricists? They should be almost negligible too using your own counter-argument on national demographics. But they're quite well-represented among the greatest ever in these domains, and almost all originate from nations with low single digit Jewish populations.

    I'm open to speculate on possible cultural/evolutionary reasons why this is so, including painting broad brush stroke group differences between Ashkenazim and NW European gentiles that could also explain why Jews are so prominent, if not dominant, in some forms of popular music, while they're just at population representation, or lower, in other forms of popular music.

    Do you have a good speculation on why Jews are very well-represented among the greatest music composers but not nearly as well-represented among the greatest rock music acts? Is there a cultural or other hypothesis you can propose that might explain this discrepancy?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JimDandy, @S Johnson, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar

  389. @Known Fact
    @anon

    Yeah I know they're considered just kind of quasi-Scandinavian, but musically they're right there with Sweden, maybe somewhat doomier. Russian groups too, actually -- the nexus is nowhere near Britain as it was decades ago

    Replies: @Anon

    I thought Finns were supposed to be closer to Hungarians.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anon

    That's just language, and even those are only very distantly related.

    Genetically, Hungarians are just your standard Central European Slavic population that happens to speak a funny language. Their ancestry is mostly Slavic, then Germanic and then native pre-Slavic Balkan (Med). They cluster with Slovenes, Northern Croats, Slovakians, Eastern Austrians.

    The Finns are a bit more peculiar. Other than to fellow Finnic speakers like Estonians, they're closest to the Scandinavians (especially the Swedes), but their minor Siberian ancestry pulls them away quite a bit. Though IIRC Eastern and Western Finns are apparently quite different from each other, for members of the same ethnicity. Can't remember the details, but I'm guessing Eastern Finns have more Asian ancestry than Western ones.

  390. Anonymous[146] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike Tre
    @Matt Buckalew

    It's not my complex. Sailer's complaining about jewish rock stars being under represented which is an absurd contention. But like a few others said maybe he's just trolling his base to amuse himself.

    And if you think jewish representation in sports is similar to that in pop music then it's clear you don't know much about either.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    Sailer’s complaining about jewish rock stars being under represented which is an absurd contention.

    Depends on how you look at it. At 2% of US population, Jews are certainly not underrepresented in Rock Music(and heavily represented in Broadway Music and the like).
    But what about relative to Jewish success in other areas?

    Granted, influence isn’t merely a matter of numbers. Even if the vast majority of rock stars aren’t Jews, some of the most influential and seminal figures were Jews, without whom Rock/Pop music would have been different. There’s Brill Building and related Jewish composers who wrote a lot of songs that were sung by blacks and gentiles in the 50s and early 60s. They turned black styles into crossover music. There’s Dylan and Paul Simon, which especially became dear to the generation through The Graduate. Robbie Robertson was half-Jewish.

    Same goes for film directors. The larger majority are gentiles, but Spielberg, Allen, Kubrick, Penn, and etc had an outsized impact on movie history.

    Rock music was taken most seriously in the 60s and 70s, but it mostly turned into a business.
    Someone with Dylan’s talent would be stuck in a subculture.

  391. @Sorel McRae
    @Wade Hampton

    He may be just a balladeer but Randy Newman sure hated White people! Here are the lyrics to "Rednecks":

    Last night, I saw Lester Maddox on a TV show
    With some smart ass New York Jew
    And the Jew laughed at Lester Maddox
    And the audience laughed at Lester Maddox too
    Well, he may be a fool, but he's our fool
    If they think they're better than him, they're wrong
    So I went to the park, and I took some paper along
    And that's where I made this song

    We talk real funny down here
    We drink too much and we laugh too loud
    We're too dumb to make it in no Northern town
    We're keepin' the niggers down

    We got no-necked oilmen from Texas
    Good ol' boys from Tennessee
    College men from LSU
    Went in dumb, come out dumb too
    Hustlin' 'round Atlanta in their alligator shoes
    Gettin' drunk every weekend at the barbecues
    They're keepin' the niggers down

    We're rednecks, rednecks
    We don't know our ass from a hole in the ground
    We're rednecks, we're rednecks
    We're keeping the niggers down


    Now, your northern nigga's a Negro
    You see, he's got his dignity
    Down here, we too ignorant to realize
    That the North has set the nigga free

    Yes, he's free to be put in a cage
    In Harlem in New York City
    And he's free to be put in a cage on the South-Side of Chicago
    And the West-Side
    And he's free to be put in a cage in Hough in Cleveland
    And he's free to be put in a cage in East St. Louis
    And he's free to be put in a cage in Fillmore in San Francisco
    And he's free to be put in a cage in Roxbury in Boston

    They're gatherin' 'em up from miles around
    Keepin' the niggers down

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Curle

    I’m not sure you’re understanding who Newman is making fun of here. And which traits he’s mocking. Look for reference to Northern.

    • Replies: @Sorel McRae
    @Curle

    Yes, he seems to criticize the North for putting Blacks "in cages." I guess he was pro-BLM, anti-"mass incarceration"/pro-Trump prison reform/pro-Soros-backed no prosecution DAs avant la lettre. If he thinks Black criminals should be released, I suppose he's not anti-white after all.

    Touché. Well played, sir; well played!

    Replies: @Curle

  392. Chaya Raichik is in my opinion a rock star.

  393. @Colin Wright
    Jews are exceptionally talented in some fields (physics, finance) but not in others (music, painting). The list of great Jewish classical composers, for example, is less than awe-inspiring.

    They are only about 0.2% of humanity. Statistically, something would definitely be up if they were dominant across the board. Offhand, whereas my idea of a good time is building a new cold frame, I think Jews really are most comfortable manipulating concepts. The Tsars were able to get German gentiles to colonize new lands easily enough -- but Jews fought like mad cats to avoid becoming farmers.

    Etc. They're strong in some areas -- not in all.

    Replies: @Jay Fink, @Curle

    I haven’t seen the list, but whenever I choose to listen to classical, Mahler’s one of my first choices.

    • Disagree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    @Curle

    'I haven’t seen the list, but whenever I choose to listen to classical, Mahler’s one of my first choices.'

    The position of someone like Mahler actually makes my point.

    One would have a hard time imagining modern physics without Einstein, for example -- but whatever your preference for Mahler, classical music remains more or less intact without him. Figures such as Beethoven or Bach or Mozart are essential -- not Mahler.

    Ditto, for example, if we subtract Pissaro from Impressionism. The field remains intact. Jews have not been dominant figures everywhere.

    Sorry if that's not enough for a group making up a fifth of one percent of humanity in general.

  394. @Anonymous
    @Element59


    The fact that they’re predominately of Anglo-Saxon/Germanic ethnic origins with some minor individual exceptions (Roth, Mercury, Garcia – ie., one member of a group), still demonstrates the curious dearth of Jewish stars in this specific music domain.
     
    So you are bad with numbers.

    Also, you meant Germanic, not Anglo-Saxon? Okay, let's keep it simple and call them NW European, "Celts" included.

    Either way, more than half of the bands you chose are from places that were 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic when these people were being born. We might as well marvel at the fact that most rock stars in Spain are Spanish, that in Iceland they're Icelandic, or that in Lebanon they're Lebanese. All very shocking, and surely very meaningful.

    I'm not even making a claim that Germanic peoples (or all NW Europeans) don't have more of an aptitude for rock than other Europeans. But your observation of the bleeding obvious and fully expected is a silly way to go about proving it.


    The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Queen, U2, AC/DC, (most of) Fleetwood Mac and the Bee Gees
     
    Sure, the only "diversity" I can think of here is Mercury, Peter Green (Jewish), and partially Gers (half Polish) and Brian Johnson (half Italian), but there's nothing at all surprising about that given that these are all from what were at the time of their births basically Anglo-Saxon and Celtic ethnostates (and again, where Jews are a statistical error - a population only visible at all due to its superior abilities).

    So let's look at your picks from a country that wasn't 95%+ NW European in the decades these musicians were being born.


    Aerosmith, Metallica, Nirvana, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, The Eagles, The Doors, The Grateful Dead
     
    Tyler, Joe Perry, Joey Kramer (Jewish), Crespo, Tabano, Mustaine (half Jewish; only a short stint in Metallica but went on to form Megadeth), Hammett, Trujillo, Novoselic, Adler (Jewish), Slash, Bongiovi, David Bryan (Jewish), Tico Torres, Vince Neil, Tommy Lee, Nikki Sixx, Sambora, Manzarek, Krieger (Jewish), Garcia, Mickey Hart (Jewish)... In line with US demographics. Your assertion was ridiculous.

    Your arguments validate this observation, not undermines it.
     
    My argument, which is that you cherrypicked (or unthinkingly chose) a disproportionate number of bands from countries with vanishingly small numbers of Jews... validates your (baseless and amply contradicted in this very thread) claims that Jews are underrepresented? That's some logic you got there.

    Your reply, on the other hand, does validate both my suppositions about you - bad with numbers and determined to bend the facts to fit with your expectations.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Element59

    But Jews were really big in American popular music before rock. I once looked up the composers of BMI’s or ASCAP’s top 25 biggest earning Christmas songs (mostly from about 1930-1960) and almost half were composed by Jews.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/jewish-songwriters-american-songs-143837609/

    I’m really coming around to the view that Jews, like Italians, were out of sync culturally with the classic long hair era of rock music (roughly 1965-1974). I once theorized that the hippie era was due to Northwest European encountering the Northern California climate and imagining a perpetual year round Mayday. Well, that dream didn’t last long, but it had a powerful effect on pop music while it lasted.

    Guys like Jann Wenner probably didn’t particularly want to admit it, but it was an era of northwest European values and styles, more so than the preceding and subsequent eras.

    Also, Anglophilia was rampant in the 1960s. The Brits were long much admired, but they were kind of beat down, broke, and depressing after WWII. By the 1960s, however, they had money. And British celebrities could now get to America by 707, so there was a big merger of the two countries’ popular cultures for awhile.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Steve Sailer

    >big pre-rock
    Tracks with high verbal (a lot of those early twentieth century pop songs were very lyrically dense, much more like a "show tune" than a rock ballad, where you almost always want to explicitly say as little as possible) and jazz musicianship (math). So they were simply better suited for one sort of music over another.

    , @Element59
    @Steve Sailer

    Interesting observations about the American Italians...it could certainly be partly cultural, relating to their unique life experiences in America as an identifiable group.

    The great composers quite likely possess a different suite of cognitive and psychological musical talents than the rock music stars do. And the talent frequencies are probably not evenly distributed among indentifiable groups.

    I'm proposing that there's an average psychological-cognitive profile along with general factor of personality that's required to rise to the very top in rock music vs. classical.

    This reminds me of something Roger Daltry of the Who said about Barry Gibb of the Bee Gees after he worked with Gibb on a song. It was something along the lines of Barry is a gifted songwriter, but he just doesn't really understand rock.

    The suite of innate talent that it takes to create and perform "rock music" at world-class level may be much deeper than culture, it may also be partly biology too. The Jews may have lower frequencies of these required rock traits than is found among the NW Europeans/Anglo gentiles.

    Jews can be highly represented the among great composers and lyricists, but not so much among the great rock music acts.

    Just as Daltry gets rock, but Gibb doesn't.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

  395. I thought Finns were supposed to be closer to Hungarians.

    Finnish is more closely related to Lapp (Saami) than it is to Hungarian. Finns are genetically Scandinavians with some (less than 10%) North Asian ancestry that they share with Lapps.

  396. i think this is a question of age and tatse. punk and metal and hardcore have plenty of jews. to name a few off the top of my head: joey ramone, dave mustaine, marty friedman, scott ian (and most original members of anthrax and sod), chuck schuldiner, etc…

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @f u. thats my name

    I suspect Jews mostly missed out on the legendary 1965-~1974 era.

    Replies: @J.Ross

  397. My somewhat reductive theory is simply that rock ‘n’ roll is an inebriated art form played by groups that start out in bars and clubs and Jews also tend to drink a little less than the Anglo-Irish. With white rock ‘n’ roll starting in clubs in the South (as well as Buddy Holly look at the Everlys from Kentucky of whom Keith Richards said “we owe those guys everything”) and in England, two regions that don’t have many Jews, that would have held them back. Bob Dylan and Lou Reed, born in 1941 and 1942, were two Jews from fairly typical though distinct Jewish-American backgrounds who assimilated early to Anglo-Irish rock via the radio and developed their own version of it although almost always as outsiders looking in (as in Reed’s “Rock & Roll”).

    From 1992 here is Lou Reed performing Dylan’s Old Testament-inspired “Foot of Pride”, perhaps a high point for Jewish-American rock:

    NB: See Amy Winehouse for an example of a Jewish singing star who couldn’t keep up with the hard-drinking lifestyle of British rock acts.

  398. @J.Ross
    @Anon

    Not today, fed. You want my tax dollars, you're going to earn them. By listening to Randy Newman pretend he's that character from Tremé pretending he's Doctor John. Or just take in the opening sequence of Cop Rock.

    Replies: @Curle

    “By listening to Randy Newman pretend he’s that character from Tremé”

    You refer to Dr. John who was jazz. Newman wasn’t jazz he was shuffle and Hollywood movie orchestration. His influences were pretty obvious, Stephen Foster and his three film score composer uncles three uncles: Alfred Newman, Lionel Newman and Emil Newman.

    Here’s Stephen Foster:

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Curle

    Is Tipitina jazz or shuffle?

    Replies: @Curle

  399. @f u. thats my name
    i think this is a question of age and tatse. punk and metal and hardcore have plenty of jews. to name a few off the top of my head: joey ramone, dave mustaine, marty friedman, scott ian (and most original members of anthrax and sod), chuck schuldiner, etc...

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    I suspect Jews mostly missed out on the legendary 1965-~1974 era.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Steve Sailer

    Wouldn't that roughly correspond to the period of mainstream acceptance or middle class normalization? So there could be a class reason to not allow your son to freak out as a hippie with no future. And then by the mid-seventies it would be clear, both that rock's not the end of the world and that you could make money doing it.

  400. Anonymous[285] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike Tre
    @Anonymous

    I meant to type Stanley, as in Paul.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Haha thanks, given the rest of the sentence I really should’ve been able to figure it out on my own.

  401. @Anonymous
    @Element59


    The fact that they’re predominately of Anglo-Saxon/Germanic ethnic origins with some minor individual exceptions (Roth, Mercury, Garcia – ie., one member of a group), still demonstrates the curious dearth of Jewish stars in this specific music domain.
     
    So you are bad with numbers.

    Also, you meant Germanic, not Anglo-Saxon? Okay, let's keep it simple and call them NW European, "Celts" included.

    Either way, more than half of the bands you chose are from places that were 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic when these people were being born. We might as well marvel at the fact that most rock stars in Spain are Spanish, that in Iceland they're Icelandic, or that in Lebanon they're Lebanese. All very shocking, and surely very meaningful.

    I'm not even making a claim that Germanic peoples (or all NW Europeans) don't have more of an aptitude for rock than other Europeans. But your observation of the bleeding obvious and fully expected is a silly way to go about proving it.


    The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, The Stones, Pink Floyd, Queen, U2, AC/DC, (most of) Fleetwood Mac and the Bee Gees
     
    Sure, the only "diversity" I can think of here is Mercury, Peter Green (Jewish), and partially Gers (half Polish) and Brian Johnson (half Italian), but there's nothing at all surprising about that given that these are all from what were at the time of their births basically Anglo-Saxon and Celtic ethnostates (and again, where Jews are a statistical error - a population only visible at all due to its superior abilities).

    So let's look at your picks from a country that wasn't 95%+ NW European in the decades these musicians were being born.


    Aerosmith, Metallica, Nirvana, Guns N Roses, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue, The Eagles, The Doors, The Grateful Dead
     
    Tyler, Joe Perry, Joey Kramer (Jewish), Crespo, Tabano, Mustaine (half Jewish; only a short stint in Metallica but went on to form Megadeth), Hammett, Trujillo, Novoselic, Adler (Jewish), Slash, Bongiovi, David Bryan (Jewish), Tico Torres, Vince Neil, Tommy Lee, Nikki Sixx, Sambora, Manzarek, Krieger (Jewish), Garcia, Mickey Hart (Jewish)... In line with US demographics. Your assertion was ridiculous.

    Your arguments validate this observation, not undermines it.
     
    My argument, which is that you cherrypicked (or unthinkingly chose) a disproportionate number of bands from countries with vanishingly small numbers of Jews... validates your (baseless and amply contradicted in this very thread) claims that Jews are underrepresented? That's some logic you got there.

    Your reply, on the other hand, does validate both my suppositions about you - bad with numbers and determined to bend the facts to fit with your expectations.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Element59

    Either way, more than half of the bands you chose are from places that were 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic when these people were being born. We might as well marvel at the fact that most rock stars in Spain are Spanish, that in Iceland they’re Icelandic, or that in Lebanon they’re Lebanese. All very shocking, and surely very meaningful.

    And? I didn’t choose these acts in any specific order or preference. These acts from those 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic nations comprise a majority the biggest and best-known representatives in the history of the rock music genre that the world has ever heard.

    They exemplify the creative ingredients and sound that produced what we collectively call “rock music”. So…why aren’t we hearing equally great rock acts emerging from Spain or Lebanon or Israel or the Philippines? They’ve been hearing and imbibing this Western rock music for 2-3 generations now. Are they actually writing and playing “rock music” near the creative levels of any of those aforementioned acts?

    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we’re just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons? Or, is is possible and reasonable to speculate, that the types of psychological and intellecutal traits that are required to be a gifted “rock musician” exist in some populations at such low frequencies that the likelihood of one ever emerging is negligible? I say yes, and I say that this also is a plausible hypothesis to explain the low number of Jews among the most successful and iconic rock acts in the world – and a Jewish overrepresentation among the greatest music composers and lyricists.

    My argument, which is that you cherrypicked (or unthinkingly chose) a disproportionate number of bands from countries with vanishingly small numbers of Jews… validates your (baseless and amply contradicted in this very thread) claims that Jews are underrepresented? That’s some logic you got there.

    The fact that these rock acts that I took just a couple of minutes to keyboard rattle off of the top of my head, and in no particular preference, form the foundations of The Pantheon of global “rock” music superstars, with almost all of them comprised largely of gentiles of NW European origins, appears to be lost on you.

    How many Jewish “rock stars” do you reckon belong in that pantheon among them? From anywhere? From any time?

    What about the great Jewish composers and lyricists? They should be almost negligible too using your own counter-argument on national demographics. But they’re quite well-represented among the greatest ever in these domains, and almost all originate from nations with low single digit Jewish populations.

    I’m open to speculate on possible cultural/evolutionary reasons why this is so, including painting broad brush stroke group differences between Ashkenazim and NW European gentiles that could also explain why Jews are so prominent, if not dominant, in some forms of popular music, while they’re just at population representation, or lower, in other forms of popular music.

    Do you have a good speculation on why Jews are very well-represented among the greatest music composers but not nearly as well-represented among the greatest rock music acts? Is there a cultural or other hypothesis you can propose that might explain this discrepancy?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Element59

    Now we have global Korean pop stars. So who knows?

    , @JimDandy
    @Element59

    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we’re just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons?

    There's a Parsi Freddy Mercury.

    , @S Johnson
    @Element59


    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we’re just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons
     
    There are certainly Latin pop-rock superstars who are globally famous, some of whom go onto have big recording careers in English like Shakira, some of whom just remain superstars in the Latin/international world. In general English speakers are pretty prejudiced against discovering stuff in other languages; see how Salma Hayek, who’s fluent in English, has had a bigger career in US movies than Penelope Cruz who’s from Spain and only learnt English as an adult despite being the weaker actress.
    , @Anonymous
    @Element59


    How many Jewish “rock stars” do you reckon belong in that pantheon among them? From anywhere? From any time?
     
    Off the top of my head, and only counting acts where a Jewish member or members were among either the musically most important or prominent members of the band (e.g. no G n' R or Grateful Dead, no RHCP cause Slovak died so soon etc.)... The Band, The Doors, Jefferson Airplane, Green-era Fleetwood Mac, Bloomfield and Kooper, Velvet Underground, Steely Dan, Rush, Van Halen, KISS (for better or worse), The Ramones, The Clash, Blondie, Johnny Thunders/New York Dolls/The Heartbreakers, Black Flag/Circle Jerks, The Dictators, various Verlaine and Hell projects, Dire Straits, Jane's Addiction, (early) Beastie Boys, Anthrax, Megadeth...

    Or you could just read the thread.

    Yes, a couple of these aren't household names, but I included them as they're seminal acts whose importance can't be overstated.

    (Now you'll say "but too few of this or that band's members are Jewish to qualify!". And I'll have to explain that Jews are less than 2% of the anglophone world yet again.)

    Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't purposefully go cherrypicking, part of your problem seems to be that you're under some kind of impression that the group of bands you chose is the group of true and relevant rock bands. Sure, some of them will be on any such list, but (while they all have their merits) some could just as easily be replaced with others, and some just seem to be your own favorites. E.g. yeah, Motley Crue could be fun, but in the top 20 or so of all-time greats? Maybe in your personal one, sure. But many will disagree.


    The fact that these rock acts that I took just a couple of minutes to keyboard rattle off of the top of my head, and in no particular preference, form the foundations of The Pantheon of global “rock” music superstars, with almost all of them comprised largely of gentiles of NW European origins, appears to be lost on you.
     
    What's going on here is you're conflating two very different questions.

    One is why rock began in the US and developed in the US and the UK.

    The other is the level of participation of (as you put it) non-Anglo-Saxon or non-Germanic ethnic groups in general and Jews in particular in these countries' rock scenes, both of which you falsely implied was disproportionately small compared to their share of the population. You tried to support both your assertions with your examples. but as soon as we look at those of your examples from a country with ethnic diversity, we see that the rock scene in that country is ethnically diverse as well.

    You're also ignoring the absolutely massive role of language barriers.


    They exemplify the creative ingredients and sound that produced what we collectively call “rock music”. So…why aren’t we hearing equally great rock acts emerging from Spain or Lebanon or Israel or the Philippines? They’ve been hearing and imbibing this Western rock music for 2-3 generations now. Are they actually writing and playing “rock music” near the creative levels of any of those aforementioned acts?

    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we’re just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons? Or, is is possible and reasonable to speculate, that the types of psychological and intellecutal traits that are required to be a gifted “rock musician” exist in some populations at such low frequencies that the likelihood of one ever emerging is negligible?
     

    I don't speak Arabic, Tagalog (or other Filipino languages) or Hebrew, so I couldn't tell you, because I am like 99% of people in the world, who all mostly just listen to music in their own language(s) and English, the global lingua franca. There have certainly been popular rock bands in Spain, Lebanon and Israel that local rock fans consider great (I know next to nothing about the Philippines), but that's all I can say about that.

    The only thing I can tell you that my native (and not at all NW European) Yugoslavia had amazing rock, punk and new wave scenes. If some of these bands had instead been from L.A. or London and had sung in English, they might well have become internationally known in some capacity. But as it is, no matter how good many of the bands were, for obvious reasons only South Slavs would know or care. My point is, unless we actually look into it, I don't know whether there are great bands in Spain or Lebanon, and neither do you.


    Now if instead you wanted to discuss the first question (why rock started where it did), you should've said so. It's an interesting topic of discussion. It might indeed have something to do with the Anglo-Saxon mentality, or at least that of the Anglo-Saxons in the relevant regions. But one important factor in its emergence (much as I sometimes see certain commenters here try to discount it or minimize it) was the influence of black music (and even black mentality and culture). Shared language then enabled cultural sharing between the US and the UK. The constant growth of English as lingua franca (though not to the point it is today) and US as the global superpower and the biggest mass producer of mass culture meant that Anglo culture became more and more consumed all over the West and beyond. The rest of the world (or at least much of it) doesn't just get the giants of rock, it gets everything, including 2 Broke Girls, Nipsey Hussle and Queer theory.

    As for why Jews are not as overrepresented in this area to absolutely insane levels as they are in so many other cultural and artistic pursuits... The best I can do is basically just stating the obvious - I guess that their talents in this area are more normal and more in line with the rest of the population, compared to their talents in other ones. I don't know enough to even start speculating about the science of why and how.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Element59


    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we’re just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons?
     
    No. It's just that such people get nowhere in their homelands, which retain a modicum of taste in music.

    As for Peruvians, is this the first time Janis Joplin and Yma Sumac have appeared in the same sentence?


    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yhUBJZdL8BY

  402. @Curle
    @J.Ross

    “By listening to Randy Newman pretend he’s that character from Tremé”

    You refer to Dr. John who was jazz. Newman wasn’t jazz he was shuffle and Hollywood movie orchestration. His influences were pretty obvious, Stephen Foster and his three film score composer uncles three uncles: Alfred Newman, Lionel Newman and Emil Newman.

    Here’s Stephen Foster:












    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h4JpokLJ-vY

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Is Tipitina jazz or shuffle?

    • Replies: @Curle
    @J.Ross

    Start at minute 11:45 for an explanation.

    https://www.bluesguitarinstitute.com/straight-versus-shuffle-rhythm/

    Longhair is jazz.

  403. @Steve Sailer
    @f u. thats my name

    I suspect Jews mostly missed out on the legendary 1965-~1974 era.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Wouldn’t that roughly correspond to the period of mainstream acceptance or middle class normalization? So there could be a class reason to not allow your son to freak out as a hippie with no future. And then by the mid-seventies it would be clear, both that rock’s not the end of the world and that you could make money doing it.

  404. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    But Jews were really big in American popular music before rock. I once looked up the composers of BMI's or ASCAP's top 25 biggest earning Christmas songs (mostly from about 1930-1960) and almost half were composed by Jews.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/jewish-songwriters-american-songs-143837609/

    I'm really coming around to the view that Jews, like Italians, were out of sync culturally with the classic long hair era of rock music (roughly 1965-1974). I once theorized that the hippie era was due to Northwest European encountering the Northern California climate and imagining a perpetual year round Mayday. Well, that dream didn't last long, but it had a powerful effect on pop music while it lasted.

    Guys like Jann Wenner probably didn't particularly want to admit it, but it was an era of northwest European values and styles, more so than the preceding and subsequent eras.

    Also, Anglophilia was rampant in the 1960s. The Brits were long much admired, but they were kind of beat down, broke, and depressing after WWII. By the 1960s, however, they had money. And British celebrities could now get to America by 707, so there was a big merger of the two countries' popular cultures for awhile.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Element59

    >big pre-rock
    Tracks with high verbal (a lot of those early twentieth century pop songs were very lyrically dense, much more like a “show tune” than a rock ballad, where you almost always want to explicitly say as little as possible) and jazz musicianship (math). So they were simply better suited for one sort of music over another.

  405. Anonymous[153] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    @Known Fact

    I thought Finns were supposed to be closer to Hungarians.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    That’s just language, and even those are only very distantly related.

    Genetically, Hungarians are just your standard Central European Slavic population that happens to speak a funny language. Their ancestry is mostly Slavic, then Germanic and then native pre-Slavic Balkan (Med). They cluster with Slovenes, Northern Croats, Slovakians, Eastern Austrians.

    The Finns are a bit more peculiar. Other than to fellow Finnic speakers like Estonians, they’re closest to the Scandinavians (especially the Swedes), but their minor Siberian ancestry pulls them away quite a bit. Though IIRC Eastern and Western Finns are apparently quite different from each other, for members of the same ethnicity. Can’t remember the details, but I’m guessing Eastern Finns have more Asian ancestry than Western ones.

  406. @Element59
    @Anonymous


    Either way, more than half of the bands you chose are from places that were 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic when these people were being born. We might as well marvel at the fact that most rock stars in Spain are Spanish, that in Iceland they’re Icelandic, or that in Lebanon they’re Lebanese. All very shocking, and surely very meaningful.
     
    And? I didn't choose these acts in any specific order or preference. These acts from those 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic nations comprise a majority the biggest and best-known representatives in the history of the rock music genre that the world has ever heard.

    They exemplify the creative ingredients and sound that produced what we collectively call "rock music". So...why aren't we hearing equally great rock acts emerging from Spain or Lebanon or Israel or the Philippines? They've been hearing and imbibing this Western rock music for 2-3 generations now. Are they actually writing and playing "rock music" near the creative levels of any of those aforementioned acts?

    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we're just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons? Or, is is possible and reasonable to speculate, that the types of psychological and intellecutal traits that are required to be a gifted "rock musician" exist in some populations at such low frequencies that the likelihood of one ever emerging is negligible? I say yes, and I say that this also is a plausible hypothesis to explain the low number of Jews among the most successful and iconic rock acts in the world - and a Jewish overrepresentation among the greatest music composers and lyricists.

    My argument, which is that you cherrypicked (or unthinkingly chose) a disproportionate number of bands from countries with vanishingly small numbers of Jews… validates your (baseless and amply contradicted in this very thread) claims that Jews are underrepresented? That’s some logic you got there.
     
    The fact that these rock acts that I took just a couple of minutes to keyboard rattle off of the top of my head, and in no particular preference, form the foundations of The Pantheon of global "rock" music superstars, with almost all of them comprised largely of gentiles of NW European origins, appears to be lost on you.

    How many Jewish "rock stars" do you reckon belong in that pantheon among them? From anywhere? From any time?

    What about the great Jewish composers and lyricists? They should be almost negligible too using your own counter-argument on national demographics. But they're quite well-represented among the greatest ever in these domains, and almost all originate from nations with low single digit Jewish populations.

    I'm open to speculate on possible cultural/evolutionary reasons why this is so, including painting broad brush stroke group differences between Ashkenazim and NW European gentiles that could also explain why Jews are so prominent, if not dominant, in some forms of popular music, while they're just at population representation, or lower, in other forms of popular music.

    Do you have a good speculation on why Jews are very well-represented among the greatest music composers but not nearly as well-represented among the greatest rock music acts? Is there a cultural or other hypothesis you can propose that might explain this discrepancy?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JimDandy, @S Johnson, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar

    Now we have global Korean pop stars. So who knows?

  407. @J.Ross
    @Curle

    Is Tipitina jazz or shuffle?

    Replies: @Curle

    Start at minute 11:45 for an explanation.

    https://www.bluesguitarinstitute.com/straight-versus-shuffle-rhythm/

    Longhair is jazz.

  408. @Anon
    If Jews have higher IQs on average then is it not likely that those with musical talent would be disproportionately drawn to more highbrow genres like classical music and jazz? They certainly had an oversized impact on 20th century classical music (Glass, Reich, Berlin, Bernstein, Gershwin, Schoenberg) as well as producing many of the biggest non-black jazz stars (Goodman, Getz, Konitz, Rich).

    Replies: @JimDandy

    Where’s the money in that, genius?

  409. @Element59
    @Anonymous


    Either way, more than half of the bands you chose are from places that were 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic when these people were being born. We might as well marvel at the fact that most rock stars in Spain are Spanish, that in Iceland they’re Icelandic, or that in Lebanon they’re Lebanese. All very shocking, and surely very meaningful.
     
    And? I didn't choose these acts in any specific order or preference. These acts from those 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic nations comprise a majority the biggest and best-known representatives in the history of the rock music genre that the world has ever heard.

    They exemplify the creative ingredients and sound that produced what we collectively call "rock music". So...why aren't we hearing equally great rock acts emerging from Spain or Lebanon or Israel or the Philippines? They've been hearing and imbibing this Western rock music for 2-3 generations now. Are they actually writing and playing "rock music" near the creative levels of any of those aforementioned acts?

    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we're just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons? Or, is is possible and reasonable to speculate, that the types of psychological and intellecutal traits that are required to be a gifted "rock musician" exist in some populations at such low frequencies that the likelihood of one ever emerging is negligible? I say yes, and I say that this also is a plausible hypothesis to explain the low number of Jews among the most successful and iconic rock acts in the world - and a Jewish overrepresentation among the greatest music composers and lyricists.

    My argument, which is that you cherrypicked (or unthinkingly chose) a disproportionate number of bands from countries with vanishingly small numbers of Jews… validates your (baseless and amply contradicted in this very thread) claims that Jews are underrepresented? That’s some logic you got there.
     
    The fact that these rock acts that I took just a couple of minutes to keyboard rattle off of the top of my head, and in no particular preference, form the foundations of The Pantheon of global "rock" music superstars, with almost all of them comprised largely of gentiles of NW European origins, appears to be lost on you.

    How many Jewish "rock stars" do you reckon belong in that pantheon among them? From anywhere? From any time?

    What about the great Jewish composers and lyricists? They should be almost negligible too using your own counter-argument on national demographics. But they're quite well-represented among the greatest ever in these domains, and almost all originate from nations with low single digit Jewish populations.

    I'm open to speculate on possible cultural/evolutionary reasons why this is so, including painting broad brush stroke group differences between Ashkenazim and NW European gentiles that could also explain why Jews are so prominent, if not dominant, in some forms of popular music, while they're just at population representation, or lower, in other forms of popular music.

    Do you have a good speculation on why Jews are very well-represented among the greatest music composers but not nearly as well-represented among the greatest rock music acts? Is there a cultural or other hypothesis you can propose that might explain this discrepancy?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JimDandy, @S Johnson, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar

    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we’re just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons?

    There’s a Parsi Freddy Mercury.

  410. Most Rock Stars were not Jewish because most Jewish families (mother and father) did not want their child to be a rock and roller. That is so obvious.

  411. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    But Jews were really big in American popular music before rock. I once looked up the composers of BMI's or ASCAP's top 25 biggest earning Christmas songs (mostly from about 1930-1960) and almost half were composed by Jews.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/jewish-songwriters-american-songs-143837609/

    I'm really coming around to the view that Jews, like Italians, were out of sync culturally with the classic long hair era of rock music (roughly 1965-1974). I once theorized that the hippie era was due to Northwest European encountering the Northern California climate and imagining a perpetual year round Mayday. Well, that dream didn't last long, but it had a powerful effect on pop music while it lasted.

    Guys like Jann Wenner probably didn't particularly want to admit it, but it was an era of northwest European values and styles, more so than the preceding and subsequent eras.

    Also, Anglophilia was rampant in the 1960s. The Brits were long much admired, but they were kind of beat down, broke, and depressing after WWII. By the 1960s, however, they had money. And British celebrities could now get to America by 707, so there was a big merger of the two countries' popular cultures for awhile.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Element59

    Interesting observations about the American Italians…it could certainly be partly cultural, relating to their unique life experiences in America as an identifiable group.

    The great composers quite likely possess a different suite of cognitive and psychological musical talents than the rock music stars do. And the talent frequencies are probably not evenly distributed among indentifiable groups.

    I’m proposing that there’s an average psychological-cognitive profile along with general factor of personality that’s required to rise to the very top in rock music vs. classical.

    This reminds me of something Roger Daltry of the Who said about Barry Gibb of the Bee Gees after he worked with Gibb on a song. It was something along the lines of Barry is a gifted songwriter, but he just doesn’t really understand rock.

    The suite of innate talent that it takes to create and perform “rock music” at world-class level may be much deeper than culture, it may also be partly biology too. The Jews may have lower frequencies of these required rock traits than is found among the NW Europeans/Anglo gentiles.

    Jews can be highly represented the among great composers and lyricists, but not so much among the great rock music acts.

    Just as Daltry gets rock, but Gibb doesn’t.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Element59

    Or that rock in, say, 1955 to 1974 grew out of heartland American white and black styles with Celtic and Anglo-Saxon roots that British kids had enough in common with culturally to pick up and extend. Various New York-centric American ethnicities who had done very well for themselves in previous styles of American popular music -- such as Italians, with their cultural links to opera (e.g., the influence of bel canto singing on Sinatra), and Jews, with their cultural links to German and Austrian music (e.g., Rogers & Hammerstein's "Sound of Music") -- increasingly found their hard-earned skills out of fashion for awhile.

    , @Anonymous
    @Element59


    The Jews may have lower frequencies of these required rock traits than is found among the NW Europeans
     
    Might be useful to compare Jews to a NW European group that makes up a similarly small part of the US population (or, rather, groups, as looking over the percentages quickly I can't find a group that fits on its own). According to census data, Swedish Americans and Norwegian Americans combined come up to roughly the same percentage as Jewish Americans. There's the issue of Swedish and Norwegian Americans being more mixed than Jews (and census data not being totally reliable), but I'll list everyone Wikipedia provides, no matter how small the Swedish or Norwegian fraction, and using a very broad definition of who might qualify as a "rock star". These Wikipedia lists are of course not complete, so probably there's some smaller fish (but that might still be described as notable) not listed. But all the big ones should be here.


    Half: Todd Rundgren, Nils Lofgren, Cat Stevens, Ted Nugent, Jackson Browne, Joni Mitchell

    Quarter: Jerry Garcia, Iggy Pop, Jerry Cantrell, Beck, Peter Tork (also a quarter Jewish), Ricky Nelson

    Unclear: Tom Waits (half or possibly less), Kerry Livgren (same), Brent Mydland, Gregg Rolie, Grace Slick (quarter or less), Harry Nilsson (a Swedish immigrant great-grandfather mentioned, so 1/8 or possibly more), Josh Homme (no indication, but also of Jewish, French Canadian and English descent, so probably not much), Robin Pecknold (1/8 or possibly more), David Ellefson


    Good on the Swedes and Norwegians, but the Jews take it.
  412. @Element59
    @Steve Sailer

    Interesting observations about the American Italians...it could certainly be partly cultural, relating to their unique life experiences in America as an identifiable group.

    The great composers quite likely possess a different suite of cognitive and psychological musical talents than the rock music stars do. And the talent frequencies are probably not evenly distributed among indentifiable groups.

    I'm proposing that there's an average psychological-cognitive profile along with general factor of personality that's required to rise to the very top in rock music vs. classical.

    This reminds me of something Roger Daltry of the Who said about Barry Gibb of the Bee Gees after he worked with Gibb on a song. It was something along the lines of Barry is a gifted songwriter, but he just doesn't really understand rock.

    The suite of innate talent that it takes to create and perform "rock music" at world-class level may be much deeper than culture, it may also be partly biology too. The Jews may have lower frequencies of these required rock traits than is found among the NW Europeans/Anglo gentiles.

    Jews can be highly represented the among great composers and lyricists, but not so much among the great rock music acts.

    Just as Daltry gets rock, but Gibb doesn't.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    Or that rock in, say, 1955 to 1974 grew out of heartland American white and black styles with Celtic and Anglo-Saxon roots that British kids had enough in common with culturally to pick up and extend. Various New York-centric American ethnicities who had done very well for themselves in previous styles of American popular music — such as Italians, with their cultural links to opera (e.g., the influence of bel canto singing on Sinatra), and Jews, with their cultural links to German and Austrian music (e.g., Rogers & Hammerstein’s “Sound of Music”) — increasingly found their hard-earned skills out of fashion for awhile.

  413. @Putz
    I give you Mike Bloomfield lead guitarist of the Paul Butterfield Band, Electric Flag, etc.; Al Kooper of the Blues Project, Blood Sweat and Tears (played organ on Dylan's "Like a Rolling Stone"); Jerry (the Fish) Melton and two other members of the (awful) Country Joe and the Fish ("gimme an 'F'!"); bassist and flutist Andy Kulberg, of the Blues Project and Seatrain; Billy Joel (duh).

    And, of course, Elvis was Jewish.

    Replies: @Sorel McRae, @Ripple Earthdevil

    Barry Melton, not Jerry.

    Mickey Hart of the Grateful Dead and currently Dead & Company is a tribesman.

    So is half the membership of Phish, Mike Gordon and Jon Fishman.

    I remember some time ago coming across a book entitled Jews Who Rock.

  414. @Somsel
    I've noticed the same underrepresentation of Jews in engineering in my 50 years in the engineering biz.

    I've known a few, of course, but they seemed more interested in the steady income than burning with passion to build stuff.

    The Israeli arms industry proves there's no lack of ability but engineers are usually employees and you don't get rich working for someone else.

    There are riches to be had as a rock star but the odds of making it to the top are very small. It's a bad career bet for a young aspirant.

    Besides, rock is hedonism and that's not generally a Jewish vice.

    Replies: @Eric Novak, @AndrewR, @Lank98

  415. @Curle
    @Sorel McRae

    I’m not sure you’re understanding who Newman is making fun of here. And which traits he’s mocking. Look for reference to Northern.

    Replies: @Sorel McRae

    Yes, he seems to criticize the North for putting Blacks “in cages.” I guess he was pro-BLM, anti-“mass incarceration”/pro-Trump prison reform/pro-Soros-backed no prosecution DAs avant la lettre. If he thinks Black criminals should be released, I suppose he’s not anti-white after all.

    Touché. Well played, sir; well played!

    • Replies: @Curle
    @Sorel McRae

    The song came out at a time that southern whites were resentful of northern whites virtue signaling by making the negro problem, as it was conceived, solely about the South. Newman, who’s lived in the South, was saying “it ain’t just us” Yankees. I’m told the album sold very well in the South. My first exposure to it , soon after it came out, was through an southern upper class family who had no delusions about the average differences between the groups but nevertheless felt that negroes should be treated with dignity and resented northern hypocrisy and understood their own culture’s (southern) weaknesses and were willing to laugh at them.

    Most southerners then were implicit if not explicit segregationists not race war types.

    You shouldn’t try so hard to read into songs your own obsessions.

  416. @Sorel McRae
    @Putz

    Billy Joel's anti-Catholic seduction anthem, "Only the Good Die Young":

    Come out Virginia, don't let me wait
    You Catholic girls start much too late
    Aw, but sooner or later, it comes down to fate
    I might as well be the one

    Well, they showed you a statue, told you to pray
    They built you a temple and locked you away
    Aw, but they never told you the price that you pay
    For things that you might have done

    Well, only the good die young
    That's what I said
    Only the good die young
    Only the good die young

    You might-a heard I run with a dangerous crowd
    We ain't too pretty, we ain't too proud
    We might be laughing a bit too loud
    Aw, but that never hurt no one

    So come on Virginia, show me a sign
    Send up a signal, I'll throw you the line
    The stained-glass curtain you're hiding behind
    Never lets in the sun

    [Chorus]

    You got a nice white dress
    And a party on your confirmation
    You got a brand new soul
    Mmm, and a cross of gold

    But Virginia
    They didn't give you quite enough information
    You didn't count on me
    When you were counting on your rosary

    They say there's a heaven for those who will wait
    Some say it's better, but I say it ain't
    I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
    The sinners are much more fun

    [Chorus]

    You said your mother told you
    "All that I could give you was a reputation"
    Aw, she never cared for me
    But did she ever say a prayer for me?
    Oh oh oh

    Come out, come out, come out Virginia, don't let me wait
    You Catholic girls start much too late
    But sooner or later it comes down to fate
    I might as well be the one

    [Outro]

    Replies: @BB753

    Could a Gentile singer get away with a song enticing a very young and virgin Jewess to lose her virginity? I don’t think so, not even thirty years ago.

    • Replies: @flyingtiger
    @BB753

    I always thought that the "My Sharona" song was a rebuttal to this song.

  417. @Sorel McRae
    @Curle

    Yes, he seems to criticize the North for putting Blacks "in cages." I guess he was pro-BLM, anti-"mass incarceration"/pro-Trump prison reform/pro-Soros-backed no prosecution DAs avant la lettre. If he thinks Black criminals should be released, I suppose he's not anti-white after all.

    Touché. Well played, sir; well played!

    Replies: @Curle

    The song came out at a time that southern whites were resentful of northern whites virtue signaling by making the negro problem, as it was conceived, solely about the South. Newman, who’s lived in the South, was saying “it ain’t just us” Yankees. I’m told the album sold very well in the South. My first exposure to it , soon after it came out, was through an southern upper class family who had no delusions about the average differences between the groups but nevertheless felt that negroes should be treated with dignity and resented northern hypocrisy and understood their own culture’s (southern) weaknesses and were willing to laugh at them.

    Most southerners then were implicit if not explicit segregationists not race war types.

    You shouldn’t try so hard to read into songs your own obsessions.

  418. @Somsel
    I've noticed the same underrepresentation of Jews in engineering in my 50 years in the engineering biz.

    I've known a few, of course, but they seemed more interested in the steady income than burning with passion to build stuff.

    The Israeli arms industry proves there's no lack of ability but engineers are usually employees and you don't get rich working for someone else.

    There are riches to be had as a rock star but the odds of making it to the top are very small. It's a bad career bet for a young aspirant.

    Besides, rock is hedonism and that's not generally a Jewish vice.

    Replies: @Eric Novak, @AndrewR, @Lank98

    What branch of engineering were you in? While there maybe a dearth of jews in civil engineering,jews appear to be fairly represented in other areas such as electrical and computer,for instance around 15% of the ieee medal of honor is jewish and while randomly browsing the ieee award categories on Wikipedia I discovered that jews were substantially overrepresented in the radar category.
    Just have a look at the NAE members pages and you will see a similar pattern;jews appear to be highly represented in EE&CE categories.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_Medal_of_Honor
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_Dennis_J._Picard_Medal_for_Radar_Technologies_and_Applications
    http://www.nae.edu/19579/19581/166166/166807/Electronics
    http://www.nae.edu/19579/19581/166166/166841/ComputerScience

  419. @Anon
    @the one they call Desanex

    A Deadhead once informed me that Garcia was part Spanish via Cuba and part Irish. I believe Garcia's grandfather was some kind of big shot union activist back in the day. Don't know which is true since my Deadhead acquaintance had been a pretty hardcore San Francisco hippy.

    Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil

    Garcia’s father was an immigrant from Spain and it’s certainly possible he was descended from conversos. He was an old-school immigrant who was psyched to become an American and insisted on being called Joe not Jose. His mother was of Swedish descent.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Ripple Earthdevil

    Possible, but what are the odds? Most Spaniards aren't descended from Jews. As in 99 %.

    Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil

  420. @Muse
    Geddy Lee of RUSH.

    Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil

    Born Gary Lee Weinrib. Geddy is how his Yiddish-speaking grandmother pronounced Gary.

  421. @James Hoffman
    Weird that nobody here has mentioned David Lee Roth yet. Of all the Jewish rockstars that people are gonna name, he certainly fits the American rockstar archetype better than any of them. I would also point to Geddy Lee, who, while very much NOT a stereotypical rockstar, is the frontman of an incredibly beloved legacy rock act. And for a more modern example, David Draiman from the hugely popular metal band Disturbed is extremely open and proud about his Jewishness. Or how about Joey Ramone, Lou Reed, Adam Duritz from Counting Crows, Perry Farrell (born Peretz Bernstein) from Jane’s Addiction, Lenny Kravitz (half-Jewish through his father, but I’m sure Jews will be glad to claim him), Eddie Money, and Dee Snider (Jewish father, but raised very Christian).

    Some other more minor figures off the top of my head would be Scott Ian (guitarist for Anthrax), Marty Friedman (long-time lead guitarist for Megadeth), Joey Kramer (drummer for Aerosmith), Robby Krieger (guitarist for The Doors), Chuck Schuldiner (pioneering death metal vocalist and guitarist) and Adam Lambert, the former American Idol contestant who briefly toured as the frontman for Queen.

    Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil

    Edward Joseph Mahoney aka Eddie Money was as Irish-Catholic as they come.

  422. @Anonymous
    @Mike Tre


    There’s a lot more nepotism in rock than people realize. Slipknot’s – a ridiculous hard rock / rap/ goth/ theater “band” – drummer is the son of Bruce Springsteen’s longtime drummer.
     
    Is it “nepotism”—or is it genetics?

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    If you’re suggesting that the ability to play the drums is inherited – well maybe it is. But as you tube has made clear the country is full of 10’s of 1000’s of insanely talented drummers who never made it past open mic night. Rock stardom is also populated by all sorts of mediocre musicians.

    I think it’s pretty naive to think Max Weinberg wouldn’t have passed his kid’s band’s demo tape along to some record company suits to give his band a start.

  423. @Element59
    @Anonymous


    Either way, more than half of the bands you chose are from places that were 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic when these people were being born. We might as well marvel at the fact that most rock stars in Spain are Spanish, that in Iceland they’re Icelandic, or that in Lebanon they’re Lebanese. All very shocking, and surely very meaningful.
     
    And? I didn't choose these acts in any specific order or preference. These acts from those 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic nations comprise a majority the biggest and best-known representatives in the history of the rock music genre that the world has ever heard.

    They exemplify the creative ingredients and sound that produced what we collectively call "rock music". So...why aren't we hearing equally great rock acts emerging from Spain or Lebanon or Israel or the Philippines? They've been hearing and imbibing this Western rock music for 2-3 generations now. Are they actually writing and playing "rock music" near the creative levels of any of those aforementioned acts?

    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we're just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons? Or, is is possible and reasonable to speculate, that the types of psychological and intellecutal traits that are required to be a gifted "rock musician" exist in some populations at such low frequencies that the likelihood of one ever emerging is negligible? I say yes, and I say that this also is a plausible hypothesis to explain the low number of Jews among the most successful and iconic rock acts in the world - and a Jewish overrepresentation among the greatest music composers and lyricists.

    My argument, which is that you cherrypicked (or unthinkingly chose) a disproportionate number of bands from countries with vanishingly small numbers of Jews… validates your (baseless and amply contradicted in this very thread) claims that Jews are underrepresented? That’s some logic you got there.
     
    The fact that these rock acts that I took just a couple of minutes to keyboard rattle off of the top of my head, and in no particular preference, form the foundations of The Pantheon of global "rock" music superstars, with almost all of them comprised largely of gentiles of NW European origins, appears to be lost on you.

    How many Jewish "rock stars" do you reckon belong in that pantheon among them? From anywhere? From any time?

    What about the great Jewish composers and lyricists? They should be almost negligible too using your own counter-argument on national demographics. But they're quite well-represented among the greatest ever in these domains, and almost all originate from nations with low single digit Jewish populations.

    I'm open to speculate on possible cultural/evolutionary reasons why this is so, including painting broad brush stroke group differences between Ashkenazim and NW European gentiles that could also explain why Jews are so prominent, if not dominant, in some forms of popular music, while they're just at population representation, or lower, in other forms of popular music.

    Do you have a good speculation on why Jews are very well-represented among the greatest music composers but not nearly as well-represented among the greatest rock music acts? Is there a cultural or other hypothesis you can propose that might explain this discrepancy?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JimDandy, @S Johnson, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar

    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we’re just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons

    There are certainly Latin pop-rock superstars who are globally famous, some of whom go onto have big recording careers in English like Shakira, some of whom just remain superstars in the Latin/international world. In general English speakers are pretty prejudiced against discovering stuff in other languages; see how Salma Hayek, who’s fluent in English, has had a bigger career in US movies than Penelope Cruz who’s from Spain and only learnt English as an adult despite being the weaker actress.

  424. @Abe
    @Ganderson


    Maybe the problem is that Jewish creativity is mostly smart-ass irony and rock takes itself very seriously.
     
    B-B-B-INGO!

    Anyone else remember post-grunge “It Boy” Beck? Half-quarter-whatever Jewish. Rock seemed very much alive and healthy in the 2000’s, but turned out acts like WHITE STRIPES, BLACK KEYS, ARCADE FIRE and, yes, BECK were not so much part of a vital and lasting cultural movement as the advertising soundtrack and/or loss leader for selling more iPods.

    Yet that did not stop FUTURAMA from giving Beck this tongue-bath, heralding him as some sort of 2nd coming of Dylan-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoflPE5pvY&t=146s

    Beck’s “reinvention” of genres was basically just more of said non-serious [email protected], a great example being his dead-serious-no-not-really R&B spoof song DEBRA.

    There have been some major Jewish rock stars as noted by others, but it is not at all a natural fit, as the quintessential Jewish yuckster/take-nothing-too-seriously personality (which at its worst devolves into a sort of cynical schlockmeistery) is generally unable to cope with either of rock’s two great modes- too intellectually self-regarding and unbelieving to attain rock unguarded transcendence (STAIRWAY), too self-aware and premeditated to even partake of any of rock’s innocent barbarism and aggression (BROWN SUGAR, pretty much any AC/DC song).

    Replies: @Che Guava, @Che Guava

    IIRC, Beck, no matter his possible small part Jewish ancenstry, is a Scientologist.

    That is absolutely not kosher.

  425. @Abe
    @Ganderson


    Maybe the problem is that Jewish creativity is mostly smart-ass irony and rock takes itself very seriously.
     
    B-B-B-INGO!

    Anyone else remember post-grunge “It Boy” Beck? Half-quarter-whatever Jewish. Rock seemed very much alive and healthy in the 2000’s, but turned out acts like WHITE STRIPES, BLACK KEYS, ARCADE FIRE and, yes, BECK were not so much part of a vital and lasting cultural movement as the advertising soundtrack and/or loss leader for selling more iPods.

    Yet that did not stop FUTURAMA from giving Beck this tongue-bath, heralding him as some sort of 2nd coming of Dylan-

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoflPE5pvY&t=146s

    Beck’s “reinvention” of genres was basically just more of said non-serious [email protected], a great example being his dead-serious-no-not-really R&B spoof song DEBRA.

    There have been some major Jewish rock stars as noted by others, but it is not at all a natural fit, as the quintessential Jewish yuckster/take-nothing-too-seriously personality (which at its worst devolves into a sort of cynical schlockmeistery) is generally unable to cope with either of rock’s two great modes- too intellectually self-regarding and unbelieving to attain rock unguarded transcendence (STAIRWAY), too self-aware and premeditated to even partake of any of rock’s innocent barbarism and aggression (BROWN SUGAR, pretty much any AC/DC song).

    Replies: @Che Guava, @Che Guava

    Beck is a Scientologist. Though many Jews like many cult religions, that ain’t one of them.

    Also did snme good pop songs.

    • Replies: @Curle
    @Che Guava

    “Though many Jews like many cult religions, that ain’t one of them.”

    Interesting. Can you elaborate?

    Replies: @Che Guava

  426. @Che Guava
    @Abe

    Beck is a Scientologist. Though many Jews like many cult religions, that ain't one of them.

    Also did snme good pop songs.

    Replies: @Curle

    “Though many Jews like many cult religions, that ain’t one of them.”

    Interesting. Can you elaborate?

    • Replies: @Che Guava
    @Curle

    Hare Krishna, before my time, but it seems most of the leading 'converts' were Jewish.

    I once read a very funny story with that at the centre.

    Rajneesh, a.k.a. the orange people, mainly Jewish bosses.

    The Prem Rawat organisation, again before my time, but all of the prominent propagandists were Jewish.
     
    Most of the mind-control cults, Werner Eckhardt's real name is Jack Rosenbaum, well-known, and the many successors and copies are all Jewish run.

    I am not an admirer of Scientology, but all of the EST, successors, and similar cults are run by Jews.

    In a way, I admire Scientology just because it isn't run by Jews.

    That's why it is a particular object of Jewish hate.

  427. Anonymous[207] • Disclaimer says:
    @Element59
    @Anonymous


    Either way, more than half of the bands you chose are from places that were 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic when these people were being born. We might as well marvel at the fact that most rock stars in Spain are Spanish, that in Iceland they’re Icelandic, or that in Lebanon they’re Lebanese. All very shocking, and surely very meaningful.
     
    And? I didn't choose these acts in any specific order or preference. These acts from those 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic nations comprise a majority the biggest and best-known representatives in the history of the rock music genre that the world has ever heard.

    They exemplify the creative ingredients and sound that produced what we collectively call "rock music". So...why aren't we hearing equally great rock acts emerging from Spain or Lebanon or Israel or the Philippines? They've been hearing and imbibing this Western rock music for 2-3 generations now. Are they actually writing and playing "rock music" near the creative levels of any of those aforementioned acts?

    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we're just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons? Or, is is possible and reasonable to speculate, that the types of psychological and intellecutal traits that are required to be a gifted "rock musician" exist in some populations at such low frequencies that the likelihood of one ever emerging is negligible? I say yes, and I say that this also is a plausible hypothesis to explain the low number of Jews among the most successful and iconic rock acts in the world - and a Jewish overrepresentation among the greatest music composers and lyricists.

    My argument, which is that you cherrypicked (or unthinkingly chose) a disproportionate number of bands from countries with vanishingly small numbers of Jews… validates your (baseless and amply contradicted in this very thread) claims that Jews are underrepresented? That’s some logic you got there.
     
    The fact that these rock acts that I took just a couple of minutes to keyboard rattle off of the top of my head, and in no particular preference, form the foundations of The Pantheon of global "rock" music superstars, with almost all of them comprised largely of gentiles of NW European origins, appears to be lost on you.

    How many Jewish "rock stars" do you reckon belong in that pantheon among them? From anywhere? From any time?

    What about the great Jewish composers and lyricists? They should be almost negligible too using your own counter-argument on national demographics. But they're quite well-represented among the greatest ever in these domains, and almost all originate from nations with low single digit Jewish populations.

    I'm open to speculate on possible cultural/evolutionary reasons why this is so, including painting broad brush stroke group differences between Ashkenazim and NW European gentiles that could also explain why Jews are so prominent, if not dominant, in some forms of popular music, while they're just at population representation, or lower, in other forms of popular music.

    Do you have a good speculation on why Jews are very well-represented among the greatest music composers but not nearly as well-represented among the greatest rock music acts? Is there a cultural or other hypothesis you can propose that might explain this discrepancy?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JimDandy, @S Johnson, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar

    How many Jewish “rock stars” do you reckon belong in that pantheon among them? From anywhere? From any time?

    Off the top of my head, and only counting acts where a Jewish member or members were among either the musically most important or prominent members of the band (e.g. no G n’ R or Grateful Dead, no RHCP cause Slovak died so soon etc.)… The Band, The Doors, Jefferson Airplane, Green-era Fleetwood Mac, Bloomfield and Kooper, Velvet Underground, Steely Dan, Rush, Van Halen, KISS (for better or worse), The Ramones, The Clash, Blondie, Johnny Thunders/New York Dolls/The Heartbreakers, Black Flag/Circle Jerks, The Dictators, various Verlaine and Hell projects, Dire Straits, Jane’s Addiction, (early) Beastie Boys, Anthrax, Megadeth…

    Or you could just read the thread.

    Yes, a couple of these aren’t household names, but I included them as they’re seminal acts whose importance can’t be overstated.

    (Now you’ll say “but too few of this or that band’s members are Jewish to qualify!”. And I’ll have to explain that Jews are less than 2% of the anglophone world yet again.)

    Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn’t purposefully go cherrypicking, part of your problem seems to be that you’re under some kind of impression that the group of bands you chose is the group of true and relevant rock bands. Sure, some of them will be on any such list, but (while they all have their merits) some could just as easily be replaced with others, and some just seem to be your own favorites. E.g. yeah, Motley Crue could be fun, but in the top 20 or so of all-time greats? Maybe in your personal one, sure. But many will disagree.

    The fact that these rock acts that I took just a couple of minutes to keyboard rattle off of the top of my head, and in no particular preference, form the foundations of The Pantheon of global “rock” music superstars, with almost all of them comprised largely of gentiles of NW European origins, appears to be lost on you.

    What’s going on here is you’re conflating two very different questions.

    One is why rock began in the US and developed in the US and the UK.

    The other is the level of participation of (as you put it) non-Anglo-Saxon or non-Germanic ethnic groups in general and Jews in particular in these countries’ rock scenes, both of which you falsely implied was disproportionately small compared to their share of the population. You tried to support both your assertions with your examples. but as soon as we look at those of your examples from a country with ethnic diversity, we see that the rock scene in that country is ethnically diverse as well.

    You’re also ignoring the absolutely massive role of language barriers.

    They exemplify the creative ingredients and sound that produced what we collectively call “rock music”. So…why aren’t we hearing equally great rock acts emerging from Spain or Lebanon or Israel or the Philippines? They’ve been hearing and imbibing this Western rock music for 2-3 generations now. Are they actually writing and playing “rock music” near the creative levels of any of those aforementioned acts?

    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we’re just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons? Or, is is possible and reasonable to speculate, that the types of psychological and intellecutal traits that are required to be a gifted “rock musician” exist in some populations at such low frequencies that the likelihood of one ever emerging is negligible?

    I don’t speak Arabic, Tagalog (or other Filipino languages) or Hebrew, so I couldn’t tell you, because I am like 99% of people in the world, who all mostly just listen to music in their own language(s) and English, the global lingua franca. There have certainly been popular rock bands in Spain, Lebanon and Israel that local rock fans consider great (I know next to nothing about the Philippines), but that’s all I can say about that.

    The only thing I can tell you that my native (and not at all NW European) Yugoslavia had amazing rock, punk and new wave scenes. If some of these bands had instead been from L.A. or London and had sung in English, they might well have become internationally known in some capacity. But as it is, no matter how good many of the bands were, for obvious reasons only South Slavs would know or care. My point is, unless we actually look into it, I don’t know whether there are great bands in Spain or Lebanon, and neither do you.

    Now if instead you wanted to discuss the first question (why rock started where it did), you should’ve said so. It’s an interesting topic of discussion. It might indeed have something to do with the Anglo-Saxon mentality, or at least that of the Anglo-Saxons in the relevant regions. But one important factor in its emergence (much as I sometimes see certain commenters here try to discount it or minimize it) was the influence of black music (and even black mentality and culture). Shared language then enabled cultural sharing between the US and the UK. The constant growth of English as lingua franca (though not to the point it is today) and US as the global superpower and the biggest mass producer of mass culture meant that Anglo culture became more and more consumed all over the West and beyond. The rest of the world (or at least much of it) doesn’t just get the giants of rock, it gets everything, including 2 Broke Girls, Nipsey Hussle and Queer theory.

    As for why Jews are not as overrepresented in this area to absolutely insane levels as they are in so many other cultural and artistic pursuits… The best I can do is basically just stating the obvious – I guess that their talents in this area are more normal and more in line with the rest of the population, compared to their talents in other ones. I don’t know enough to even start speculating about the science of why and how.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    One of the wackier theories I came up with from looking at the list of bands at Woodstock is that it was an Anglo-American victory party, delayed one generation, for winning the Big One.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  428. @Ripple Earthdevil
    @Anon

    Garcia's father was an immigrant from Spain and it's certainly possible he was descended from conversos. He was an old-school immigrant who was psyched to become an American and insisted on being called Joe not Jose. His mother was of Swedish descent.

    Replies: @BB753

    Possible, but what are the odds? Most Spaniards aren’t descended from Jews. As in 99 %.

    • Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil
    @BB753

    I agree, the odds are low.

  429. @the one they call Desanex
    There’s Simon and Garfunkel, Howard Kaylan of the Turtles (Volman was half-Jewish), Neil Diamond, Mama Cass, Eric Bloom of BOC, Amy Winehouse, and, of course, Donald Fagen of Steely Dan. Fagen is my #1 Jewish rock star. Does Jerry Garcia count? He looked Jewish, and his parents named him after Jerome Kern.

    Replies: @the one they call Desanex, @Art Deco, @Anon, @bomag, @Emil Nikola Richard, @MEH 0910

    I incubated this over a couple days and came to conclusion Donald Fagen is the only one ever true Jew Rock God. **

    ** According to Rick Beato he was always a jazz man and did rock early as a marketing maneuver. At Aja his authentic butterfly metamorphosis was complete.

    You cannot press any undo button on rock history however. The one authentic jew rock anthem:

    • Replies: @the one they call Desanex
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    If you like Steely Dan, you might also like jazzy Manfred Mann Chapter Three (Manfred was also a Jew).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manfred_Mann_Chapter_Three
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVB3Ol09iXA

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  430. @Anon
    Paul Stanley of KISS. Born Stanley Eisen. Had a nice raspy voice in his prime, great falsetto on one of their hits, "I was made for loving you baby".
    The band The Black Crowes (solid Rock Band) had the Gorman Brothers guitarists and vocalist Chris Robinson was Jewish also.
    Waddy Wachtel and Andrew Gold, guitarists over the years for Linda Ronstadt and Stevie Nicks were Jewish.
    Donald Fagan and the late Walter Becker of Steeley Dan, who were in radio rotation on rock stations, were also Jewish and makers of some very good hit songs. Deacon Frey was named after one of Glen Frey's favorite Steeley Dan tunes (mine too), Deacon Blues.

    Wish it was 1978 and we had Jimmy Carter again. So much better than the kompromised konfounded klutz we have now.

    Replies: @Bourne, @Ripple Earthdevil

    Chris Robinson of the Black Crowes and more recently the Chris Robinson Brotherhood — he’s also collaborated occasionally with Phil Lesh of the Grateful Dead is not Jewish.

    BTW Phil Lesh who is not Jewish used to hold seders at his now-closed venue/restaurant/bar Terrapin Crossroads in San Rafael CA.

    Three Jefferson Airplane members Balin, Kaukonen, and Dryden are all half Jewish. Paul Kantner, despite the Jewish-sounding name, was Catholic and went to military school.

    Michael Stipe of REM is not Jewish.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Ripple Earthdevil

    I went to see REM back in the 80s and I remember Michael Stipe, between a set, telling the crowd his father was a Methodist minister. Stipe had long hair at that time. I saw REM again ten years later and Stipe was completely bald.

  431. @Anonymous
    @Element59


    How many Jewish “rock stars” do you reckon belong in that pantheon among them? From anywhere? From any time?
     
    Off the top of my head, and only counting acts where a Jewish member or members were among either the musically most important or prominent members of the band (e.g. no G n' R or Grateful Dead, no RHCP cause Slovak died so soon etc.)... The Band, The Doors, Jefferson Airplane, Green-era Fleetwood Mac, Bloomfield and Kooper, Velvet Underground, Steely Dan, Rush, Van Halen, KISS (for better or worse), The Ramones, The Clash, Blondie, Johnny Thunders/New York Dolls/The Heartbreakers, Black Flag/Circle Jerks, The Dictators, various Verlaine and Hell projects, Dire Straits, Jane's Addiction, (early) Beastie Boys, Anthrax, Megadeth...

    Or you could just read the thread.

    Yes, a couple of these aren't household names, but I included them as they're seminal acts whose importance can't be overstated.

    (Now you'll say "but too few of this or that band's members are Jewish to qualify!". And I'll have to explain that Jews are less than 2% of the anglophone world yet again.)

    Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't purposefully go cherrypicking, part of your problem seems to be that you're under some kind of impression that the group of bands you chose is the group of true and relevant rock bands. Sure, some of them will be on any such list, but (while they all have their merits) some could just as easily be replaced with others, and some just seem to be your own favorites. E.g. yeah, Motley Crue could be fun, but in the top 20 or so of all-time greats? Maybe in your personal one, sure. But many will disagree.


    The fact that these rock acts that I took just a couple of minutes to keyboard rattle off of the top of my head, and in no particular preference, form the foundations of The Pantheon of global “rock” music superstars, with almost all of them comprised largely of gentiles of NW European origins, appears to be lost on you.
     
    What's going on here is you're conflating two very different questions.

    One is why rock began in the US and developed in the US and the UK.

    The other is the level of participation of (as you put it) non-Anglo-Saxon or non-Germanic ethnic groups in general and Jews in particular in these countries' rock scenes, both of which you falsely implied was disproportionately small compared to their share of the population. You tried to support both your assertions with your examples. but as soon as we look at those of your examples from a country with ethnic diversity, we see that the rock scene in that country is ethnically diverse as well.

    You're also ignoring the absolutely massive role of language barriers.


    They exemplify the creative ingredients and sound that produced what we collectively call “rock music”. So…why aren’t we hearing equally great rock acts emerging from Spain or Lebanon or Israel or the Philippines? They’ve been hearing and imbibing this Western rock music for 2-3 generations now. Are they actually writing and playing “rock music” near the creative levels of any of those aforementioned acts?

    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we’re just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons? Or, is is possible and reasonable to speculate, that the types of psychological and intellecutal traits that are required to be a gifted “rock musician” exist in some populations at such low frequencies that the likelihood of one ever emerging is negligible?
     

    I don't speak Arabic, Tagalog (or other Filipino languages) or Hebrew, so I couldn't tell you, because I am like 99% of people in the world, who all mostly just listen to music in their own language(s) and English, the global lingua franca. There have certainly been popular rock bands in Spain, Lebanon and Israel that local rock fans consider great (I know next to nothing about the Philippines), but that's all I can say about that.

    The only thing I can tell you that my native (and not at all NW European) Yugoslavia had amazing rock, punk and new wave scenes. If some of these bands had instead been from L.A. or London and had sung in English, they might well have become internationally known in some capacity. But as it is, no matter how good many of the bands were, for obvious reasons only South Slavs would know or care. My point is, unless we actually look into it, I don't know whether there are great bands in Spain or Lebanon, and neither do you.


    Now if instead you wanted to discuss the first question (why rock started where it did), you should've said so. It's an interesting topic of discussion. It might indeed have something to do with the Anglo-Saxon mentality, or at least that of the Anglo-Saxons in the relevant regions. But one important factor in its emergence (much as I sometimes see certain commenters here try to discount it or minimize it) was the influence of black music (and even black mentality and culture). Shared language then enabled cultural sharing between the US and the UK. The constant growth of English as lingua franca (though not to the point it is today) and US as the global superpower and the biggest mass producer of mass culture meant that Anglo culture became more and more consumed all over the West and beyond. The rest of the world (or at least much of it) doesn't just get the giants of rock, it gets everything, including 2 Broke Girls, Nipsey Hussle and Queer theory.

    As for why Jews are not as overrepresented in this area to absolutely insane levels as they are in so many other cultural and artistic pursuits... The best I can do is basically just stating the obvious - I guess that their talents in this area are more normal and more in line with the rest of the population, compared to their talents in other ones. I don't know enough to even start speculating about the science of why and how.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    One of the wackier theories I came up with from looking at the list of bands at Woodstock is that it was an Anglo-American victory party, delayed one generation, for winning the Big One.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Steve Sailer


    One of the wackier theories I came up with from looking at the list of bands at Woodstock is that it was an Anglo-American victory party, delayed one generation, for winning the Big One.
     
    The most influential act, arguably, was the only unscheduled* one, Melanie. Her audience started the trend of lighting matches. She sang about it in "Candles in the Rain". Melanie is half-Ukrainian and half-Italian, sort of a folk-rock (and low-key) Liberace.

    Joni Mitchell, who wrote the anthem, wasn't there. She was on the Dick Cavett Show that weekend. I think her Andersons are Nordic, not British, but could be wrong. Mitchell, like Slick, Benatar, Sarandon, Stewart, and Billingsley, was a short-term married name which she held onto once established.

    *Canned Heat also did an unscheduled performance in addition to their regularly-scheduled one. Melanie was the only fully unscheduled performer. On the lucky waiting list, I guess, like Euro '92 champions Denmark.

  432. @BB753
    @Sorel McRae

    Could a Gentile singer get away with a song enticing a very young and virgin Jewess to lose her virginity? I don't think so, not even thirty years ago.

    Replies: @flyingtiger

    I always thought that the “My Sharona” song was a rebuttal to this song.

    • LOL: BB753
  433. Anonymous[208] • Disclaimer says:
    @Element59
    @Steve Sailer

    Interesting observations about the American Italians...it could certainly be partly cultural, relating to their unique life experiences in America as an identifiable group.

    The great composers quite likely possess a different suite of cognitive and psychological musical talents than the rock music stars do. And the talent frequencies are probably not evenly distributed among indentifiable groups.

    I'm proposing that there's an average psychological-cognitive profile along with general factor of personality that's required to rise to the very top in rock music vs. classical.

    This reminds me of something Roger Daltry of the Who said about Barry Gibb of the Bee Gees after he worked with Gibb on a song. It was something along the lines of Barry is a gifted songwriter, but he just doesn't really understand rock.

    The suite of innate talent that it takes to create and perform "rock music" at world-class level may be much deeper than culture, it may also be partly biology too. The Jews may have lower frequencies of these required rock traits than is found among the NW Europeans/Anglo gentiles.

    Jews can be highly represented the among great composers and lyricists, but not so much among the great rock music acts.

    Just as Daltry gets rock, but Gibb doesn't.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    The Jews may have lower frequencies of these required rock traits than is found among the NW Europeans

    Might be useful to compare Jews to a NW European group that makes up a similarly small part of the US population (or, rather, groups, as looking over the percentages quickly I can’t find a group that fits on its own). According to census data, Swedish Americans and Norwegian Americans combined come up to roughly the same percentage as Jewish Americans. There’s the issue of Swedish and Norwegian Americans being more mixed than Jews (and census data not being totally reliable), but I’ll list everyone Wikipedia provides, no matter how small the Swedish or Norwegian fraction, and using a very broad definition of who might qualify as a “rock star”. These Wikipedia lists are of course not complete, so probably there’s some smaller fish (but that might still be described as notable) not listed. But all the big ones should be here.

    Half: Todd Rundgren, Nils Lofgren, Cat Stevens, Ted Nugent, Jackson Browne, Joni Mitchell

    Quarter: Jerry Garcia, Iggy Pop, Jerry Cantrell, Beck, Peter Tork (also a quarter Jewish), Ricky Nelson

    Unclear: Tom Waits (half or possibly less), Kerry Livgren (same), Brent Mydland, Gregg Rolie, Grace Slick (quarter or less), Harry Nilsson (a Swedish immigrant great-grandfather mentioned, so 1/8 or possibly more), Josh Homme (no indication, but also of Jewish, French Canadian and English descent, so probably not much), Robin Pecknold (1/8 or possibly more), David Ellefson

    Good on the Swedes and Norwegians, but the Jews take it.

  434. @Ripple Earthdevil
    @Anon

    Chris Robinson of the Black Crowes and more recently the Chris Robinson Brotherhood -- he's also collaborated occasionally with Phil Lesh of the Grateful Dead is not Jewish.

    BTW Phil Lesh who is not Jewish used to hold seders at his now-closed venue/restaurant/bar Terrapin Crossroads in San Rafael CA.

    Three Jefferson Airplane members Balin, Kaukonen, and Dryden are all half Jewish. Paul Kantner, despite the Jewish-sounding name, was Catholic and went to military school.

    Michael Stipe of REM is not Jewish.

    Replies: @Anon

    I went to see REM back in the 80s and I remember Michael Stipe, between a set, telling the crowd his father was a Methodist minister. Stipe had long hair at that time. I saw REM again ten years later and Stipe was completely bald.

  435. @R.G. Camara
    David Lee Roth?

    Beastie Boys (rappers, but still big pop musicians)?

    Also, check the song writers. Leiber and Stoller were huge hit writers for Elvis.

    Also, I think the growth of the Nashville-based music labels might have something to do with their being more known Jewish movie stars than pop musicians. Nashville was separate from Jewish-controlled Hollywood labels, and has largely fed Middle America's need for country music. As it was outside the Jewish-controlled areas, it didn't promote Jewish musicians as much. Many Jewish actors and comedians get promoted over goyim ones because the bosses at the studios and talent agencies are all Jewish and they want to help a fellow Jew out more, e.g. how Amy Schumer and Sarah Silverman's careers managed to expand wildly beyond their audiences and talent.

    A great documentary might be about how Nashville managed to carve itself out as a major music hub when all other entertainment got concentrated solely in NYC/LA.

    Replies: @peggy

    Joe Elliot lead singer of 80s band Def Lepard is jewish.

  436. Jefferson Airplane was full of quasi-Jews.

    No wonder its music figured prominently in the Coen Brothers’ A Serious Man.

  437. Joe Elliot lead singer of 80s band Def Leppard is Jewish.

  438. @BB753
    @Ripple Earthdevil

    Possible, but what are the odds? Most Spaniards aren't descended from Jews. As in 99 %.

    Replies: @Ripple Earthdevil

    I agree, the odds are low.

    • Agree: BB753
  439. @bws92082
    If 'Bang the Gong' is awesome, 'Spirit In The Sky' by Norman Greenbaum (a Jewish gospel songwriter believe it or not) is awesomeness squared.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZQxH_8raCI

    Interesting story behind that song:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirit_in_the_Sky

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Satanic6Music6Industry6

    I wonder if he ever ended up taking the advice of his own song ?

  440. @ScarletNumber
    @njguy73

    As a life-long resident of New Jersey, I've always felt culturally Jewish, even though I'm not a member of the tribe

    Replies: @Satanic6Music6Industry6

    I once ( not that long ago ) saw a woman in a grocery store wearing a t shirt that said on it :

    <b> I’m not screaming I’m from New Jersey

    • LOL: ScarletNumber
  441. @Mr. Anon
    @Paleo Retiree

    The Bangles were the most talented female rock performers. And rather nice to look at too.

    A lesser known song by them, in the surf-rock style - Bitchin Summer:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIowZy-g4jc

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    The Bangles were the most talented female rock performers.

    That they were, but it seems like the Go-Gos got the better songs, at least for singles. “Manic Monday” is awful for Prince, which is likely why he gave it away. (Lennon and McCartney, in contrast, gave away some of their best songs, e.g., “World Without Love”, “Come and Get It”, “Bad to Me”, the last of which is the most Beatlesque song ever.)

    They covered the wrong Kimberley Rew song, “Going Down to Liverpool”. Rew saved his “Walking on Sunshine” for his own band.

    “Walk Like an Egyptian” is the sort of novelty tune (written by their manager, or similar) that is either wonderful or terrible, depending on one’s mood at the time.

    “Walking Down Your Street” is a decent retro-60s attempt. “Eternal Flame” made it to #1 in several countries, but for some reason I don’t recall hearing it back in the day. Our village sometimes includes it on their loudspeaker track. I hear it walking down my street!

    • Replies: @flyingtiger
    @Reg Cæsar

    Girlschool is the best all girl group. Started in 1979 and still going.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous

    , @ScarletNumber
    @Reg Cæsar


    Lennon and McCartney, in contrast, gave away some of their best songs, e.g., “World Without Love”
     
    Paul was fucking Peter's sister at the time
    , @ScarletNumber
    @Reg Cæsar


    it seems like the Go-Gos got the better songs, at least for singles
     
    Not only that, when they broke up lead singer Belinda Carlisle ended up with 4* top-10 hits on her first two solo albums, while the most impressive thing Susanna Hoffs did after the Bangles was marry Jay Roach. Roach converted to Judaism for her, which is odd because normally it's the wife who converts so the children can be born Jewish.

    *
    • Mad About You (1986 #3, Belinda)
    • Heaven Is a Place on Earth (1987 #1, Heaven on Earth)
    • I Get Weak (1988 #2, Heaven on Earth)
    • Circle in the Sand (1988 #7, Heaven on Earth)
  442. @Emil Nikola Richard
    @the one they call Desanex

    I incubated this over a couple days and came to conclusion Donald Fagen is the only one ever true Jew Rock God. **

    ** According to Rick Beato he was always a jazz man and did rock early as a marketing maneuver. At Aja his authentic butterfly metamorphosis was complete.

    You cannot press any undo button on rock history however. The one authentic jew rock anthem:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dPRGfGmCmU

    Replies: @the one they call Desanex

    If you like Steely Dan, you might also like jazzy Manfred Mann Chapter Three (Manfred was also a Jew).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manfred_Mann_Chapter_Three

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @the one they call Desanex

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manfred_Mann_Chapter_Three_(album)


    Manfred Mann Chapter Three is the debut album released in 1969 by Manfred Mann Chapter Three.

    [...]
    The title of the instrumental "Konekuf" was Manfred Mann's slightly obscured reaction to Enoch Powell's infamous Rivers of Blood speech about immigration. (Manfred had left his home of South Africa for several reasons, but the country's institutionalized racism was definitely among them.)
     
    https://gravyfromthegazebo.blog/2018/04/01/top-fifty-20-manfred-mann-chapter-iii-s-t-1969/

    but I did get another surprise, which may or may not be accurate, when I read that Konekuf spelt backwards was Mann’s caustic comment on racial attitudes and policies at the time – and for those of you who don’t get it because of your age, it alludes to the Conservative MP and racist Enoch Powell and, presumably, his infamous rivers of blood tirade.
     
    Konekuf · Manfred Mann Chapter Three
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxwKpJXXV3g

    https://open.spotify.com/album/1aUJE3tKqPftSlXtCx02Tr
  443. @Paleo Retiree
    Mega-hottie Susannah Hoffs of The Bangles. Here’s a smokin’ live performance from her solo years. Her shy/bold, drunk-on-sex 20 second spoken intro is a mini-masterpiece in its own right.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rOEf9vF1kc

    Replies: @Ramk, @Mr. Anon, @Reg Cæsar

    Mega-hottie Susannah Hoffs of The Bangles.

    They all were, three shiksas and Tamara’s daughter.

    Did you know that Susannah recorded “Eternal Flame” in the nude? She was behind a screen for modesty. Some guy in the studio suggested doing this because it had worked for someone else.

  444. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    One of the wackier theories I came up with from looking at the list of bands at Woodstock is that it was an Anglo-American victory party, delayed one generation, for winning the Big One.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    One of the wackier theories I came up with from looking at the list of bands at Woodstock is that it was an Anglo-American victory party, delayed one generation, for winning the Big One.

    The most influential act, arguably, was the only unscheduled* one, Melanie. Her audience started the trend of lighting matches. She sang about it in “Candles in the Rain”. Melanie is half-Ukrainian and half-Italian, sort of a folk-rock (and low-key) Liberace.

    Joni Mitchell, who wrote the anthem, wasn’t there. She was on the Dick Cavett Show that weekend. I think her Andersons are Nordic, not British, but could be wrong. Mitchell, like Slick, Benatar, Sarandon, Stewart, and Billingsley, was a short-term married name which she held onto once established.

    *Canned Heat also did an unscheduled performance in addition to their regularly-scheduled one. Melanie was the only fully unscheduled performer. On the lucky waiting list, I guess, like Euro ’92 champions Denmark.

  445. @Curle
    @Che Guava

    “Though many Jews like many cult religions, that ain’t one of them.”

    Interesting. Can you elaborate?

    Replies: @Che Guava

    Hare Krishna, before my time, but it seems most of the leading ‘converts’ were Jewish.

    I once read a very funny story with that at the centre.

    Rajneesh, a.k.a. the orange people, mainly Jewish bosses.

    The Prem Rawat organisation, again before my time, but all of the prominent propagandists were Jewish.
     
    Most of the mind-control cults, Werner Eckhardt’s real name is Jack Rosenbaum, well-known, and the many successors and copies are all Jewish run.

    I am not an admirer of Scientology, but all of the EST, successors, and similar cults are run by Jews.

    In a way, I admire Scientology just because it isn’t run by Jews.

    That’s why it is a particular object of Jewish hate.

    • Thanks: Curle
  446. @Reg Cæsar
    @Mr. Anon


    The Bangles were the most talented female rock performers.
     
    That they were, but it seems like the Go-Gos got the better songs, at least for singles. "Manic Monday" is awful for Prince, which is likely why he gave it away. (Lennon and McCartney, in contrast, gave away some of their best songs, e.g., "World Without Love", "Come and Get It", "Bad to Me", the last of which is the most Beatlesque song ever.)

    They covered the wrong Kimberley Rew song, "Going Down to Liverpool". Rew saved his "Walking on Sunshine" for his own band.

    "Walk Like an Egyptian" is the sort of novelty tune (written by their manager, or similar) that is either wonderful or terrible, depending on one's mood at the time.

    "Walking Down Your Street" is a decent retro-60s attempt. "Eternal Flame" made it to #1 in several countries, but for some reason I don't recall hearing it back in the day. Our village sometimes includes it on their loudspeaker track. I hear it walking down my street!

    Replies: @flyingtiger, @ScarletNumber, @ScarletNumber

    Girlschool is the best all girl group. Started in 1979 and still going.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @flyingtiger

    Maybe, but the discussion concerned acts we've ever heard of.

    , @Anonymous
    @flyingtiger

    Thank you for jogging my memory! It was Girlschool.


    I remember a female rock band from the 70s being interviewed about experiences touring as women. They had lots of praise for a lot of their male colleagues, but they singled out Rush (along with a British punk band I can’t remember) as by far the most unpleasant and dismissive of all the bands they crossed paths with. Said they were absolutely miserable to interact with.
     
  447. @flyingtiger
    @Reg Cæsar

    Girlschool is the best all girl group. Started in 1979 and still going.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous

    Maybe, but the discussion concerned acts we’ve ever heard of.

  448. @Element59
    @Anonymous


    Either way, more than half of the bands you chose are from places that were 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic when these people were being born. We might as well marvel at the fact that most rock stars in Spain are Spanish, that in Iceland they’re Icelandic, or that in Lebanon they’re Lebanese. All very shocking, and surely very meaningful.
     
    And? I didn't choose these acts in any specific order or preference. These acts from those 95%+ Anglo-Saxon+Celtic nations comprise a majority the biggest and best-known representatives in the history of the rock music genre that the world has ever heard.

    They exemplify the creative ingredients and sound that produced what we collectively call "rock music". So...why aren't we hearing equally great rock acts emerging from Spain or Lebanon or Israel or the Philippines? They've been hearing and imbibing this Western rock music for 2-3 generations now. Are they actually writing and playing "rock music" near the creative levels of any of those aforementioned acts?

    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we're just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons? Or, is is possible and reasonable to speculate, that the types of psychological and intellecutal traits that are required to be a gifted "rock musician" exist in some populations at such low frequencies that the likelihood of one ever emerging is negligible? I say yes, and I say that this also is a plausible hypothesis to explain the low number of Jews among the most successful and iconic rock acts in the world - and a Jewish overrepresentation among the greatest music composers and lyricists.

    My argument, which is that you cherrypicked (or unthinkingly chose) a disproportionate number of bands from countries with vanishingly small numbers of Jews… validates your (baseless and amply contradicted in this very thread) claims that Jews are underrepresented? That’s some logic you got there.
     
    The fact that these rock acts that I took just a couple of minutes to keyboard rattle off of the top of my head, and in no particular preference, form the foundations of The Pantheon of global "rock" music superstars, with almost all of them comprised largely of gentiles of NW European origins, appears to be lost on you.

    How many Jewish "rock stars" do you reckon belong in that pantheon among them? From anywhere? From any time?

    What about the great Jewish composers and lyricists? They should be almost negligible too using your own counter-argument on national demographics. But they're quite well-represented among the greatest ever in these domains, and almost all originate from nations with low single digit Jewish populations.

    I'm open to speculate on possible cultural/evolutionary reasons why this is so, including painting broad brush stroke group differences between Ashkenazim and NW European gentiles that could also explain why Jews are so prominent, if not dominant, in some forms of popular music, while they're just at population representation, or lower, in other forms of popular music.

    Do you have a good speculation on why Jews are very well-represented among the greatest music composers but not nearly as well-represented among the greatest rock music acts? Is there a cultural or other hypothesis you can propose that might explain this discrepancy?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @JimDandy, @S Johnson, @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar

    Is there a Filipino David Bowie or a Peruvian Janis Joplin that we’re just being blocked from discovering for racist reasons?

    No. It’s just that such people get nowhere in their homelands, which retain a modicum of taste in music.

    As for Peruvians, is this the first time Janis Joplin and Yma Sumac have appeared in the same sentence?

  449. They were the Organ Grinders…ouch, hahhahahahaahhahahaaaa

  450. Anonymous[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @flyingtiger
    @Reg Cæsar

    Girlschool is the best all girl group. Started in 1979 and still going.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous

    Thank you for jogging my memory! It was Girlschool.

    I remember a female rock band from the 70s being interviewed about experiences touring as women. They had lots of praise for a lot of their male colleagues, but they singled out Rush (along with a British punk band I can’t remember) as by far the most unpleasant and dismissive of all the bands they crossed paths with. Said they were absolutely miserable to interact with.

  451. @Reg Cæsar
    @Mr. Anon


    The Bangles were the most talented female rock performers.
     
    That they were, but it seems like the Go-Gos got the better songs, at least for singles. "Manic Monday" is awful for Prince, which is likely why he gave it away. (Lennon and McCartney, in contrast, gave away some of their best songs, e.g., "World Without Love", "Come and Get It", "Bad to Me", the last of which is the most Beatlesque song ever.)

    They covered the wrong Kimberley Rew song, "Going Down to Liverpool". Rew saved his "Walking on Sunshine" for his own band.

    "Walk Like an Egyptian" is the sort of novelty tune (written by their manager, or similar) that is either wonderful or terrible, depending on one's mood at the time.

    "Walking Down Your Street" is a decent retro-60s attempt. "Eternal Flame" made it to #1 in several countries, but for some reason I don't recall hearing it back in the day. Our village sometimes includes it on their loudspeaker track. I hear it walking down my street!

    Replies: @flyingtiger, @ScarletNumber, @ScarletNumber

    Lennon and McCartney, in contrast, gave away some of their best songs, e.g., “World Without Love”

    Paul was fucking Peter’s sister at the time

  452. @Reg Cæsar
    @Mr. Anon


    The Bangles were the most talented female rock performers.
     
    That they were, but it seems like the Go-Gos got the better songs, at least for singles. "Manic Monday" is awful for Prince, which is likely why he gave it away. (Lennon and McCartney, in contrast, gave away some of their best songs, e.g., "World Without Love", "Come and Get It", "Bad to Me", the last of which is the most Beatlesque song ever.)

    They covered the wrong Kimberley Rew song, "Going Down to Liverpool". Rew saved his "Walking on Sunshine" for his own band.

    "Walk Like an Egyptian" is the sort of novelty tune (written by their manager, or similar) that is either wonderful or terrible, depending on one's mood at the time.

    "Walking Down Your Street" is a decent retro-60s attempt. "Eternal Flame" made it to #1 in several countries, but for some reason I don't recall hearing it back in the day. Our village sometimes includes it on their loudspeaker track. I hear it walking down my street!

    Replies: @flyingtiger, @ScarletNumber, @ScarletNumber

    it seems like the Go-Gos got the better songs, at least for singles

    Not only that, when they broke up lead singer Belinda Carlisle ended up with 4* top-10 hits on her first two solo albums, while the most impressive thing Susanna Hoffs did after the Bangles was marry Jay Roach. Roach converted to Judaism for her, which is odd because normally it’s the wife who converts so the children can be born Jewish.

    *

    [MORE]

    • Mad About You (1986 #3, Belinda)
    • Heaven Is a Place on Earth (1987 #1, Heaven on Earth)
    • I Get Weak (1988 #2, Heaven on Earth)
    • Circle in the Sand (1988 #7, Heaven on Earth)

  453. @Mike Tre
    @OilcanFloyd

    There's a lot more nepotism in rock than people realize. Slipknot's - a ridiculous hard rock / rap/ goth/ theater "band" - drummer is the son of Bruce Springsteen's longtime drummer.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @ScarletNumber

    I had mentioned this upthread, but my favorite act of rock nepotism is that Jonah Hill [Feldstein’s] father was the accountant for Guns N’ Roses.

  454. Is it just me or do a lot of these comments seem a little desperate …

  455. @Curle
    @Colin Wright

    I haven’t seen the list, but whenever I choose to listen to classical, Mahler’s one of my first choices.

    Replies: @Colin Wright

    ‘I haven’t seen the list, but whenever I choose to listen to classical, Mahler’s one of my first choices.’

    The position of someone like Mahler actually makes my point.

    One would have a hard time imagining modern physics without Einstein, for example — but whatever your preference for Mahler, classical music remains more or less intact without him. Figures such as Beethoven or Bach or Mozart are essential — not Mahler.

    Ditto, for example, if we subtract Pissaro from Impressionism. The field remains intact. Jews have not been dominant figures everywhere.

    Sorry if that’s not enough for a group making up a fifth of one percent of humanity in general.

  456. @mark green
    @Rocker


    That list is totally lame. They left out:
     
    The Moody Blues as well as Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young (individually, or collectively) should have been on the list, too.

    Replies: @Rocker

    Everyone in my list was performing in the 1950’s.

  457. @BB753
    @11B4P

    Americans mostly remember Lou Reed from his Velvet Underground days. But in Europe, in the 70's, he became a genuine rock god after releasing his studio LPs "Transformer", "Berlin" and his live album "Rock and Roll Animal". A bit like Bob Dylan, he was good at writing songs, not so much at performing them. Lou had not much of a singing voice and was a mediocre guitar player. Though Rock and Roll Animal remains to this day one the best live rock albums of all time, perhaps due to Steve Hunter's guitar solos.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    I don’t think this is true. While the Velvet Underground was an influential band in the US, they were never very popular. Lou’s signature song (Walk on the Wild Side) came as a solo artist on Transformer.

  458. @the one they call Desanex
    There’s Simon and Garfunkel, Howard Kaylan of the Turtles (Volman was half-Jewish), Neil Diamond, Mama Cass, Eric Bloom of BOC, Amy Winehouse, and, of course, Donald Fagen of Steely Dan. Fagen is my #1 Jewish rock star. Does Jerry Garcia count? He looked Jewish, and his parents named him after Jerome Kern.

    Replies: @the one they call Desanex, @Art Deco, @Anon, @bomag, @Emil Nikola Richard, @MEH 0910

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    https://open.spotify.com/album/5Zxv8bCtxjz11jjypNdkEa
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aja_(album)

    https://open.spotify.com/album/5fIBtKHWGjbjK9C4i1Z11L
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaucho_(album)

  459. @MEH 0910
    @the one they call Desanex

    https://open.spotify.com/album/5bpFfYgL1au22XwLG4KOnq

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_Steely_Dan

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  460. @the one they call Desanex
    @Emil Nikola Richard

    If you like Steely Dan, you might also like jazzy Manfred Mann Chapter Three (Manfred was also a Jew).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manfred_Mann_Chapter_Three
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVB3Ol09iXA

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manfred_Mann_Chapter_Three_(album)

    Manfred Mann Chapter Three is the debut album released in 1969 by Manfred Mann Chapter Three.

    […]
    The title of the instrumental “Konekuf” was Manfred Mann’s slightly obscured reaction to Enoch Powell‘s infamous Rivers of Blood speech about immigration. (Manfred had left his home of South Africa for several reasons, but the country’s institutionalized racism was definitely among them.)

    https://gravyfromthegazebo.blog/2018/04/01/top-fifty-20-manfred-mann-chapter-iii-s-t-1969/

    but I did get another surprise, which may or may not be accurate, when I read that Konekuf spelt backwards was Mann’s caustic comment on racial attitudes and policies at the time – and for those of you who don’t get it because of your age, it alludes to the Conservative MP and racist Enoch Powell and, presumably, his infamous rivers of blood tirade.

    Konekuf · Manfred Mann Chapter Three

    [MORE]

  461. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_American_film_score_composers

    Category:Jewish American film score composers

    …plus Jewish Canadian film score composer Howard Shore!

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