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UT scholar-athlete and rape suspect A.J. Johnson

As the 100th anniversary of Hollywood’s first blockbuster classic film, The Birth of a Nation, awkwardly approaches on March 3, it’s fascinating to reflect upon how much attitudes have changed in the South toward the threat of black men raping white women. A couple of decades ago, Tom Wolfe dreamed up a plot for A Man in Full about how the white coed daughter of Georgia Tech’s biggest donor charges the school’s black Heisman Trophy-winning star with rape. It must have struck Wolfe as so ironic an epitome of the New South that it would have to stir up controversy, but instead it was immediately forgotten because who wants to think about it? Not politically correct liberals and not college football-loving conservatives, and that doesn’t leave much of an audience.

In this era there’s vast media concern over the threat posed by campus rapists like Haven Monahan, but discussions of the prudence of recruiting individuals such as U. of Tennessee star Old Penitentiary Face Johnson (pictured above) and then unleashing them on campuses with thousands of teenage coeds are muted, to say the least.

Here are a couple of stories out out the red state of Tennessee. From CBS today:

How old is this guy? Did he do 5-to-10 before getting his college scholarship?

The Knox County Sheriff’s Office issued a release Tuesday announcing that former Tennessee linebacker A.J. Johnson has turned himself into police on a charge of aggravated rape, per the Associated Press.

Johnson has since been released on a $40,000 bond. Johnson and former Volunteers teammate Michael Williams were indicted by a grand jury last week on one aggravated rape charge each. …

Johnson had been scheduled to perform at the 2015 NFL Draft combine before his invitation was rescinded following his indictment. …

Both players were suspended from the team in November after a 19-year-old female Tennessee student alleged to police Johnson and Williams raped her in an off-campus apartment.

Moreover, most top university football programs seem to have informal organizations that recruit pretty coeds who really like football players to squire high school senior stars around campus on their recruiting visits to give them the impression that they are going to have a really good time during their three years on campus before turning pro.

Or consider private Vanderbilt U. (sticker price $62,320 per year), where three black and one white football players have been accused of gang raping a coed, with two convictions so far. From The Tennessean last month:

Rape trial spurs discussion of hostess role on campus
Anita Wadhwani and Adam Sparks, The Tennessean 11:03 a.m. CST January 25, 2015

The relationship between female students and male athletes has been at the forefront in the first two weeks of the trial of two former Vanderbilt football players charged with raping an unconscious female student.

Defense attorneys consistently have asked witnesses — current and former students — whether undergraduate Vanderbilt women served as “hostesses” to visiting football recruits. Attorneys have stopped short of linking any such practice directly to the allegations of rape and sexual battery against former football players Brandon Vandenburg and Cory Batey as the trial heads into its third week.

But the longtime practice by some football programs to enlist students to serve as hostesses in recruiting players has come under scrutiny in recent years.

Vanderbilt officials declined to comment on whether there is an official or unofficial hostess program on campus…

But months ago, the alleged victim in the case told police that former Vanderbilt football coach James Franklin had called her in for a private meeting, saying he wanted her to get “15 pretty girls” together to form a team to assist with recruiting — something he told her all colleges did, according to court filings.

And in court last week, sophomore football player DeAndre Woods took the stand and acknowledged he’d been paired with one such woman, whom defense attorneys called a “hostess,” while being recruited at Vanderbilt.

Often selected for their attractiveness and outgoing personalities to squire around football hopefuls, undergraduate women have served formally or informally as hostesses during on-campus recruiting at some colleges since the 1960s. Their roles have included keeping recruits company at meals and games, decorating their hotel rooms and giving campus tours.

In 2001, a University of Colorado hostess said she was raped by football players and recruits at a party she hosted and that university officials encouraged the use of alcohol and sex to lure recruits. In 2003, the “Sun Devilettes” all-female hostess program at Arizona State University was accused of offering underage recruits drinks, taking them to parties and, in some instances, having sex with them.

In 2004, prompted by these and other scandals involving female hostesses, the NCAA issued recruiting guidelines, including the elimination of gender-specific hostess group names and a requirement that tours for football recruits be similar to any other prospective student.

In 2011, the NCAA penalized the University of Tennessee with a two-year probation for multiple violations, including the improper use of “Orange Pride” hostesses in recruiting. …

The University of Florida’s “Gator Getters,” the University of Miami’s “Hurricane Honeys,” North Carolina State’s “Stately Ladies,” and the “Bengal Babes” at Clemson University have all since disbanded — in some cases adopting more gender-neutral names and expanding to include male students.

But sports insiders say the practice of using female students to accompany athletes on recruiting trips persists at many schools in formal or informal ways.

… But he added that Vanderbilt did not use a hostess program on his visit there that same year.

Fletcher Long, attorney for Vandenburg, honed in on the issue of whether women helped on recruiting visits.

At Vanderbilt, witnesses at the trial testified there was no formal hostess program but described female students assisting in recruiting football players.

Witness Julianna Martell, a student who was with the victim at a bar on the night of the alleged assault, testified that she helped recruiting over one summer….

Under the Franklin, who served as Vanderbilt’s football coach during the time of the June 2013 alleged incident, sportswriter Jesse Johnson said he often saw a host of attractive women in the football office.

“There were always attractive girls around, but it never looked like it was constructed in a real organized way like a hostess program, and it never seemed risque,” said Johnson, who has covered Vanderbilt recruiting for the past 11 years for Scout, Rivals and, currently, for 247 Sports.

Katherine Walden, a 2014 Vanderbilt graduate, said she was a suitemate of three Commodores cheerleaders in 2011-12 — two females and one male — who assisted in recruiting. She said she did not know if there was an official hostess program at Vanderbilt, but she did not approve of the use of female students to attract male athletes to the school.

“It’s very offensive, particularly with a place like Vanderbilt in the SEC,” Walden said. “If you look back at the history of the South and gender roles and all that, even the notion that there could be any type of hostess program, even under a different name, is pretty troubling. The fact that we would take these incredibly smart young women and reduce them to something similar to hostesses is troubling. Not that it’s necessarily always a bad thing, but that’s the impression we are giving of our campus.”

So at least we get a feminist attempt at explaining why this might not be such a hot idea.

But has any tuition-paying Republican father publicly expressed concerns about university officials trying to persuade his daughter to play geisha to visiting 18-year-old cornerbacks?

 
• Category: Race/Ethnicity • Tags: Campus Rape 
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  1. I would hate it if anyone used the old-fashioned word ‘adventuress’ to describe an ‘outgoing’ woman who would voluntarily escort, oops, sorry, hostess, around a group of high-T men around a campus, have sex with them and sue for lots of money (I assume the lawsuit will come later).

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @anony-mouse

    I dated a "Georgia Girl" (one of the UGA recruiting hostesses), and all the players hit on her, and she turned them all down. So don't jump to conclusions about any of these girls.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  2. any tuition-paying Republican father

    for whatever reason George Will came came to mind when I read that line

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @grey enlightenment


    any tuition-paying Republican father

    for whatever reason George Will came came to mind when I read that line

     

    For me what comes to mind is some Tahoe-driving, Limbaugh-listening, church-going, successful businessman from an upper-middle class suburb of Atlanta. One of these guys with southern accents I hear calling up Limbaugh ("mega dittos Rush") arguing that our problems are due to high taxes or Obama shredding the Constitution or the 14th Amendment or not having a strong leader like Ronald Reagan (who, btw, gave us modern Islamic extremism).

    I don't think smart kids from rich liberal parents go to Vanderbilt or other schools in the South. They go to Bard or Williams or Bowdoin or Wellesley...

    Replies: @Lot, @yaqub the mad scientist, @shrinker, @Brutusale, @Curle

  3. During my time at UT Knoxville, both for undergrad and law school, I don’t think the football players ever mingled with the general student body. If even a semi-famous football player was sighted on campus, it was usually a huge ordeal (that exploded all over facebook/twitter). I’m not sure where they keep the athletes, but it’s evidently away from everyone else generally…

    This includes in the classroom as well. If football players are actually taking classes, but no one ever sees them in classes, then where are they?

    I think this poses an interesting situation. Due to fact that despite the segregation from everyone else, SEC football players are still raping undergraduate women (notice it’s never a woman from the JD/MBA program…).

    Despite these sacrifices, both the Vanderbilt and Tennessee football programs are pathetic. So that leaves us with the question…

    Is having undergraduate women raped worth having a losing football progam?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Gender Inflation


    During my time at UT Knoxville, both for undergrad and law school, I don’t think the football players ever mingled with the general student body. If even a semi-famous football player was sighted on campus, it was usually a huge ordeal (that exploded all over facebook/twitter). I’m not sure where they keep the athletes, but it’s evidently away from everyone else
     
    Well, there are some student athletes who are legit students. E.g., Tim Ruddy, who played 4 years of football at Notre Dame and was a mechanical engineering major who graduated with a 3.86 GPA. Ruddy went on to play for the Miami Dolphins.

    Replies: @dr kill

    , @Lot
    @Gender Inflation


    During my time at UT Knoxville, both for undergrad and law school, I don’t think the football players ever mingled with the general student body.
     
    That was my experience too at a big state school. I don't think I ever had a single class or went to a single party with a football or basketball player.

    To avoid the pathologies of a big football program, a huge state school is almost as good as a school where there is none at all. UT-Austin has 38,000 undergrads, so that's about 1 in 200 who plays football.

    A campus with 6800 undergraduates (the number for Vanderbilt) the problems will be much more concentrated.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @FWIW

    , @Eric
    @Gender Inflation

    "Is having undergraduate women raped worth having a losing football progam?"
    The smart money is riding on the answer the university will choose, yet never speak aloud, being, "Sure. As long as it's a highly profitable losing football program."

    , @Stan Adams
    @Gender Inflation

    I went to a private university in the southeastern United States that boasted a nationally-prominent football program. (That's as specific as I'm going to get.) During my years there, the football team wasn't nearly the powerhouse it had been, but it was still a big-time operation.

    I saw football players around campus all the time - even in the library (!) - and even had a couple of classes with one of the on-again, off-again starting quarterbacks. (Nice guy, but not brilliant and definitely not NFL material.) And, no, I wasn't taking Rocks for Jocks.

    The players were recognized and acknowledged as they walked around, but it wasn't as if people regularly dropped what they were doing and screamed, "OMIGOD JOCKS ARE AMONG US WOW!"

    Now, I knew a few guys who worked in the athlete-tutoring program, and, yes, some of their stories were along the lines of what Tom Wolfe wrote about in Charlotte Simmons. But they maintained that there were some fairly smart guys on the team.

    One guy in particular, a mulatto who went on to become a big name, was said to be surprisingly sharp. Supposedly he talked about pursuing a law degree after his NFL career was over.

    They did confirm that quite a few of the football players, including some of the white ones, were rock-dumb morons. Some of the knuckle-draggers resented the fact that they had to go to class and pretend to be real students. (I couldn't blame them for feeling angry - everyone knew they were there to play ball. Why go through the pretense?)

    Replies: @Plethon

    , @Mr. Blank
    @Gender Inflation

    I was also at a big football school at the same time a number of big names were supposedly attending. (Like another commenter said, that's as specific as I am going to get.) And I can confidently say that in all the years I attended, the ONLY time I saw any "stars" on campus was once when I was walking to class, and I saw a couple of big names stopped at a stop sign in a Ferrari. (It was an open top car, so it was obvious who they were.)

    To be fair: The coach at that time was not a guy who was famous for high ethical standards. This might be something that varies from one school to the next, or one player to the next, or (probably most significantly) one coach to the next. I know people who attended Auburn at the same time as Bo Jackson, and they all say they saw him regularly attending classes and that he was a fixture around campus. So presumably the whole system isn't a TOTAL fraud. It just varies quite a bit.

    , @David In TN
    @Gender Inflation

    I recall a magazine article about Peyton Manning when he was at Tennessee. It said that Peyton went out of his way to mix with regular students and implied this made him rare among the football players.

    By the way, when Peyton Manning's maternal grandfather found out his daughter was dating Ole Miss QB Archie Manning circa 1968, he was delighted and said "Bring him by so I can approve of him."

    The old-line SEC fans overlook the criminality of the players and pretend things are still what they were 50 years ago.

    Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist

    , @George
    @Gender Inflation

    Female college basketball player ends up as single mom after marrying male college basketball player. Point being maybe the female teams are there for the money making male teams.

    Two Classes, Divided by 'I Do' - The New York Times
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/us/two-classes-in-america-divided-by-i-do.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    This is what happens when student athletes get loose on campus. SUNY Binghamton once had high academic aspirations but as the Silicon Valley of the 1900s, Upstate NY, declined I think they decided to become another sports school, sort of like U of Indiana:

    Serb basketball player starts serving sentence
    http://news.yahoo.com/serb-basketball-player-starts-serving-sentence-20110121-041632-082.html

    I suspect prostitution of both male and female athletes is more common than supposed:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzy_Favor_Hamilton

  4. OT: Trying to pull a Ferguson in Australia: Video of a Middle Eastern man accusing a cop of racism for a standard traffic stop.
    http://www.news.com.au/national/p-plater-who-abused-policeman-in-sydney-and-was-videoed-is-fined/story-fncynjr2-1227223852452

  5. This is what separate countries are for.

  6. Old Penitentiary Face…LOL. Wasn’t that Jeffrey Leonard of the SF Giants?

    Thanks for that laugh because the rest is fn depressing. The thick dreads really do complete the look. What ( cough white) girl goes home with that guy? Don’t answer that. She probably saw too many State Farm commercials, or Budweiser or McDonalds. Or maybe he wooed her with some spoken word poetry…..kill my landlord….CILL

    Franklin has taken his act to Penn State – probably not the best hire for a school rehabbing its rape image. He’s sleazy but caught the Obama train to a head coaching job at Vandy. He’s so articulate…

    Great question re Republican fathers. I think it’s incumbent on you to start an advice column. One day a week you take questions like- “hey Steve, my little girl is heading off to State U – how do I protect her from the starting secondary without coming off as a racist? She’s s HUGE football fan just like her daddy.”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Danindc

    Wasn’t that Jeffrey Leonard of the SF Giants?

    Yup

    , @anonymous-antiskynetist
    @Danindc

    I call them "Predator Dreads", after the Schwarzenegger film.

  7. @Danindc
    Old Penitentiary Face...LOL. Wasn't that Jeffrey Leonard of the SF Giants?

    Thanks for that laugh because the rest is fn depressing. The thick dreads really do complete the look. What ( cough white) girl goes home with that guy? Don't answer that. She probably saw too many State Farm commercials, or Budweiser or McDonalds. Or maybe he wooed her with some spoken word poetry.....kill my landlord....CILL

    Franklin has taken his act to Penn State - probably not the best hire for a school rehabbing its rape image. He's sleazy but caught the Obama train to a head coaching job at Vandy. He's so articulate...

    Great question re Republican fathers. I think it's incumbent on you to start an advice column. One day a week you take questions like- "hey Steve, my little girl is heading off to State U - how do I protect her from the starting secondary without coming off as a racist? She's s HUGE football fan just like her daddy."

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @anonymous-antiskynetist

    Wasn’t that Jeffrey Leonard of the SF Giants?

    Yup

  8. I wonder if any of these girls get any sort of payment or reimbursement from the university for their, ahem, “services.”

    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    @Shawn

    Free penicillin?

  9. This gets at the larger question of why a college graduate would feel any affinity with some illiterate thug just because they “attended” the same school. I wonder if the better sort of schools will start to ditch major sports in favor of actual student athletics. I’m a huge college football fan, and therefore conflicted about this.

    • Replies: @JSM
    @MC


    I wonder if the better sort of schools will start to ditch major sports in favor of actual student athletics. I’m a huge college football fan, and therefore conflicted about this.
     
    Hi, MC. I am curious about your being conflicted. I ask sincerely, because I just don't "get" the appeal of football, at all, but particularly, what is it about *college* football that makes you crave it so much?

    Because, you see, I've never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.

    Certainly, I can see why a college might sponsor intramural sports just as a way for their true scholars to have some fun and activity for their physical health and relaxation, but why should institutions whose raison d'etre is the life of the mind serve as a free (taxpayer-financed) training center for fantastically rich professional football team owners?

    It seems to me that, like baseball with its farm teams that the major league itself funds and recruits from, NFL should have to recruit, teach and pay its own dam*ed rookies, nowhere near the college campuses.

    Replies: @Realist, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Anonymous, @Lagertha, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Twinkie, @MC

    , @Grumpy
    @MC

    Back in the 90s there was a big push among the faculty at Rice to withdraw the university from Division 1 sports. The effort didn't succeed... maybe because of the 72,000-seat stadium, but more likely because Owl boosters could point to the Stanford example. Meanwhile, the faculty were thinking of the University of Chicago model.

    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    @MC

    You're part of the problem.

    Replies: @MC

    , @anon
    @MC

    Yes, I've been saying this for years. Your comment was great until the end. What are you waiting for? Yes, of course, stop being a "huge college football fan."

    I attended a major state school football powerhouse. Have not been to a game in 14 years. Those thugs are not "students" and they don't give a damn about me or my school or even my civilization. Fuck them. I want my school to eventually be seen as a University of Virginia type of place, not a football school.

    Replies: @MC

  10. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @grey enlightenment
    any tuition-paying Republican father

    for whatever reason George Will came came to mind when I read that line

    Replies: @Anonymous

    any tuition-paying Republican father

    for whatever reason George Will came came to mind when I read that line

    For me what comes to mind is some Tahoe-driving, Limbaugh-listening, church-going, successful businessman from an upper-middle class suburb of Atlanta. One of these guys with southern accents I hear calling up Limbaugh (“mega dittos Rush”) arguing that our problems are due to high taxes or Obama shredding the Constitution or the 14th Amendment or not having a strong leader like Ronald Reagan (who, btw, gave us modern Islamic extremism).

    I don’t think smart kids from rich liberal parents go to Vanderbilt or other schools in the South. They go to Bard or Williams or Bowdoin or Wellesley…

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Anonymous


    I don’t think smart kids from rich liberal parents go to Vanderbilt or other schools in the South.
     
    Duke, Tulane, and Vanderbilt get a good number of northeastern students.

    I don't know about smart though. Vanderbilt's official cost of attendance is now $63,300 a year.

    http://www.vanderbilt.edu/financialaid/costs.php

    Over four years, and including interest that starts running while still in school, and annual increases, you're looking at graduating with $280,000 in debt for a degree there without some scholarship.

    Paying that off takes $19,000 a year for 30 years at 5.25%. We've become a society that destroys our young with debt because they made what everyone tells them is a responsible choice when they're 18 and going off to a good college.

    While there are now government programs to reduce monthly payments based on income, that much debt still shows up on their credit report and stops them from getting a mortgage and thus buying a house and procreating responsibly. And the phaseout of the repayment assistance operates like a very high marginal surtax. So you're not much better off making $80,000 v $50,000 once you've been debt-enslaved by student loans.

    Replies: @Owly, @rustbeltreader, @Kevin O'Keeffe

    , @yaqub the mad scientist
    @Anonymous

    They go to Sewanee, Brevard, Appalachian State, places like that.

    , @shrinker
    @Anonymous

    Oh, you're blaming Reagan for Muslim angst now too? I seem to remember at the time when Tom Hanks was promoting his film about it, a few people observing, "Too soon," but not many also drew out that line to Brzezinski encouraging Saddam Hussein to invade Iran ('79 and '80 being banner years for unintendedly consequential ideas). Anyway RR was by the least charitable view inconsistently faithful to the apple-a-day application of Arab attitude adjustment, e.g. Lebanon barracks. But you seem to insinuate he either nurtured jihad or did nothing -- the guy can't win either way.

    , @Brutusale
    @Anonymous

    Yes, they go to Bard after graduating from Boston Latin, like my friend's daughter, where she majored in Arabic and did a junior year abroad, where she was introduced to a whole 'nother brand of sexual predator. It was quite the eye-opener for her Unitarian WASP worldview.

    , @Curle
    @Anonymous

    "I don’t think smart kids from rich liberal parents go to Vanderbilt or other schools in the South. They go to Bard or Williams or Bowdoin or Wellesley…" -------------------------- And become lesbians.

  11. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “But has any tuition-paying Republican father publicly expressed concerns about university officials trying to persuade his daughter to play geisha to visiting 18-year-old cornerbacks?”

    I wonder what kind of female Vanderbilt students would be involved with this? IIRC, when I was in college my impression was that the girls who were into the hockey players/team (hockey was a big thing at my school) were not the most attractive, elegant girls, but they were fairly attractive, outgoing (maybe a little on the loud side), and generally good-natured girls.

    I guess I don’t understand the appeal of football players, except for maybe quarterbacks. Most seem too big and too unrefined.

    • Replies: @Bastion
    @Anonymous

    "were not the most attractive,"

    We're willing to trade looks for certain... morally casual attitude.

  12. Stewdint-afleets.

  13. When will the NYT start printing articles about the lack of hosts, and the resulting Title IX implications?

  14. Vandy now offering Geisha studies with a minor in Afro American anatomy.

    • Replies: @Blobby5
    @Danindc

    Hah! So funny.

    , @Clyde
    @Danindc


    Vandy now offering Geisha studies with a minor in Afro American anatomy.
     
    hahhah
  15. This is why 50 Shades isn’t that bad if you think about it. Most men would prefer their female relations getting anally fisted by someone like Christian Grey than consorting with these “student athletes”.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Anonymous

    "This is why 50 Shades isn’t that bad if you think about it. Most men would prefer their female relations getting anally fisted by someone like Christian Grey than consorting with these “student athletes”.

    He has to choose?

  16. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “But months ago, the alleged victim in the case told police that former Vanderbilt football coach James Franklin had called her in for a private meeting, saying he wanted her to get “15 pretty girls” together to form a team to assist with recruiting — something he told her all colleges did, according to court filings.”

    Franklin made headlines a little while back when said the following when he was on a radio show:

    “I’ve been saying it for a long time, I will not hire an assistant until I see his wife. If she looks the part and she’s a D-I recruit, then you got a chance to get hired. That’s part of the deal. There’s a very strong correlation between having the confidence, going up and talking to a woman, and being quick on your feet and having some personality and confidence and being articulate and confident, than it is walking into a high school and recruiting a kid and selling him.”

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    He does have a point.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  17. @Shawn
    I wonder if any of these girls get any sort of payment or reimbursement from the university for their, ahem, "services."

    Replies: @Father O'Hara

    Free penicillin?

  18. I’m deeply troubled by the implicit gender-role stereotyping here. Visiting recruits should be paired with fat girls and gay males, too.

  19. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Gender Inflation
    During my time at UT Knoxville, both for undergrad and law school, I don't think the football players ever mingled with the general student body. If even a semi-famous football player was sighted on campus, it was usually a huge ordeal (that exploded all over facebook/twitter). I'm not sure where they keep the athletes, but it's evidently away from everyone else generally...

    This includes in the classroom as well. If football players are actually taking classes, but no one ever sees them in classes, then where are they?

    I think this poses an interesting situation. Due to fact that despite the segregation from everyone else, SEC football players are still raping undergraduate women (notice it's never a woman from the JD/MBA program...).

    Despite these sacrifices, both the Vanderbilt and Tennessee football programs are pathetic. So that leaves us with the question...

    Is having undergraduate women raped worth having a losing football progam?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lot, @Eric, @Stan Adams, @Mr. Blank, @David In TN, @George

    During my time at UT Knoxville, both for undergrad and law school, I don’t think the football players ever mingled with the general student body. If even a semi-famous football player was sighted on campus, it was usually a huge ordeal (that exploded all over facebook/twitter). I’m not sure where they keep the athletes, but it’s evidently away from everyone else

    Well, there are some student athletes who are legit students. E.g., Tim Ruddy, who played 4 years of football at Notre Dame and was a mechanical engineering major who graduated with a 3.86 GPA. Ruddy went on to play for the Miami Dolphins.

    • Replies: @dr kill
    @Anonymous

    Is that you, Tim?

  20. It is sad that high school sports are so good for black kids–helping to keep them in school, putting in the effort to keep a C average, staying off the street in afternoons, providing an adult male role model in their coach, staying out of serious trouble–while college and pro football are so dysfunctional.

    Everyone here can do something about this however: cancel your cable. About $12-20 of your basic cable bill goes to ESPN and other sports, and their share keeps going up since live sports are the one thing people can’t get on the internet or DVD.

    Everyone I’ve talked to who has “cut the cord” is happy about their additional free time and hundreds of dollars a year in additional money and wishes they would have done it sooner.

    • Replies: @jo s'more
    @Lot

    You can get just MLB online for fairly cheap. Same for Hockey. Makes more sense than cable if you are a sports fan. Nobody knows college baseball or hockey players, so maybe their programs aren't as screwed up. Fewer dollars may mean less corruption.

  21. …”As the world is to be made safe for democracy, so ought the South to be made free for white women. Is it not the business of the South to endeavor to make the South safe for white women by whatever method appears to be most effective? The women of the South should be just as free to go when, where and as they please as women in other sections of the country and not be, as has been so aptly put…..’prisoners to danger and fear’”

    …”Fellow Citizens: In view of the fact that we are about to take into our hands the sword of justice to do to death one who is now incarcerated in our county jail, it is meet that we should give some reason for the purpose we hope to consummate. First, then: While we can but honor the deep feeling of interest manifested by those who are the proper guardians of our lives, our property, and our honor; and while we, as true and loyal citizens of the State of Maryland…..do bend to the supreme majesty of the law and acknowledge trials by jury as the very arch-stone in the grand edifice of human rights, still we know the vilest criminal is accorded the same rights under the law that belong to the petty thief, nor can this devil incarnate, should he claim his rights, be denied the privilege of a change of venue, such a circumstance might probably rob the gallows of its due and foil the aims of the law. Before God we believe in the existence of a higher code than that which is dignified by the great seal of a Commonwealth and that the high and holy time t exercise it is when the chastity of our women is tarnished by the foul breath of an imp from hell and the sanctity of our homes invaded by a demon.”

    …”Lynch Law…the practice of inflicting summary punishment upon an offender, by a self-constituted court armed with no legal authorty; it is now limited to the summary execution of one charged with some flagrant offense.”

    …”For 1911-1914 inclusive…..The causes for the lynching of Negroes in the South were as follows: 33, rape; 8, attempted rape; 2, alleged rape, …117, murder; 14, murderous assault; 3, complicity in murder; 1, suspicion of murder; 1 alleged murder; 5, arson; 5, race prejudice; 8, insulting white women; 11, by night riders in Kentucky….”

    …”However, according to the statistics for the twelve years under consideration, 502, or 57% of the Negroes in the South who committed murder during these years were legally executed, and but 376, or 43% were lynched; while for rape, only 60, or 16% were legally executed, and 296, or 84 % were lynched….This shows that a Negro is more than seven times as liable to be lynched in the South for rape than even for murder.”

    From; The Truth About Lynching, Winfield H Collins 1918

  22. Once again, Steve, you are oversimplifying the plot of A Man In Full. I have an article coming out about this, which was supposed to be published this winter, but has now been bumped to spring.

    Suffice it to say, the “rape” is questionable at best and the girl is not exactly a victim.

    I got into it over this with one of your commenters a while back who was outraged that Wolfe didn’t have the “courage” to blame the whole situation on blacks. But Wolfe is wise and observant enough to know/see that the girls are to a very large extent chasing these “athletes,” who may not be good men, but aren’t so much predators as gluttons feasting at a buffet of the willing.

    • Replies: @FWIW
    @manton

    Yea .. as I recall the book, it was quite nuanced about the 'rape'.

    That is, the first part was consensual ... and then it got murky. And the girl was upset but not destroyed by it and anxious to *not* be the victim.

    The best part of the entire thing being that it is so much like today. Something happened. Something was not quite right .. yet nothing clear cut happened. No evidence except he/she said. And the girl knowing better than to jump into the lifelong victim role.

    I preferred the scene at the Art Museum. Where there was no upside to noticing that the discovered paintings involved men in prison getting it on.

  23. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    “Bruce Jenner tells family he’s known since age 5 that his ‘true self’ was a woman”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/jenner-tells-family-felt-woman-5-report-article-1.2116906

    Bruce Jenner apparently has known in his heart that he was a woman since the age of five.

    In fact, he told his family that he’s kept his “true self” hidden since he was a child, and throughout his legendary Olympic career, family sources told TMZ.

    While the family reportedly knows everything about Jenner’s decision to transition to a woman, family sources said he’s never dressed as woman in front of them.

  24. @Gender Inflation
    During my time at UT Knoxville, both for undergrad and law school, I don't think the football players ever mingled with the general student body. If even a semi-famous football player was sighted on campus, it was usually a huge ordeal (that exploded all over facebook/twitter). I'm not sure where they keep the athletes, but it's evidently away from everyone else generally...

    This includes in the classroom as well. If football players are actually taking classes, but no one ever sees them in classes, then where are they?

    I think this poses an interesting situation. Due to fact that despite the segregation from everyone else, SEC football players are still raping undergraduate women (notice it's never a woman from the JD/MBA program...).

    Despite these sacrifices, both the Vanderbilt and Tennessee football programs are pathetic. So that leaves us with the question...

    Is having undergraduate women raped worth having a losing football progam?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lot, @Eric, @Stan Adams, @Mr. Blank, @David In TN, @George

    During my time at UT Knoxville, both for undergrad and law school, I don’t think the football players ever mingled with the general student body.

    That was my experience too at a big state school. I don’t think I ever had a single class or went to a single party with a football or basketball player.

    To avoid the pathologies of a big football program, a huge state school is almost as good as a school where there is none at all. UT-Austin has 38,000 undergrads, so that’s about 1 in 200 who plays football.

    A campus with 6800 undergraduates (the number for Vanderbilt) the problems will be much more concentrated.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Lot

    Maybe football factories could open a satellite campus / training facility: UT-Skull Island, say.

    , @FWIW
    @Lot

    Of the 120 athletic departments in Division I-A (sorry, the Football Bowl Subdivision) just 22 were self-sufficient last year.

    That's actually actually an improvement from 2009, when only 14 schools turned a "profit."

    Meanwhile, the median loss for the remaining 98 program is $11.3 million. That difference must be made up by the institution they belong to.

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ncaa-revenue-expense-report-2011-6#ixzz3S5Citzz2

    This is old, but the principle still holds.

    A school like Vandy has zero chance of ever making a buck. There is always a dream of turing it around -- have one great year and then become one of the 'haves' .. but those days are over.

    Even if you get someone like T Boone Pickens, who spent almost $200 million on Oklahoma State, its almost impossible. Why do the rest of the schools pay big money to be the whipping boys for the money making schools? I have no idea. No way around the average school having a 6-6 record .. and for every big winning school, there is its complement. Not much school spirit around 3-9 records.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @GW

  25. Read Tom Wolfe’s book about me.

  26. @MC
    This gets at the larger question of why a college graduate would feel any affinity with some illiterate thug just because they "attended" the same school. I wonder if the better sort of schools will start to ditch major sports in favor of actual student athletics. I'm a huge college football fan, and therefore conflicted about this.

    Replies: @JSM, @Grumpy, @The Anti-Gnostic, @anon

    I wonder if the better sort of schools will start to ditch major sports in favor of actual student athletics. I’m a huge college football fan, and therefore conflicted about this.

    Hi, MC. I am curious about your being conflicted. I ask sincerely, because I just don’t “get” the appeal of football, at all, but particularly, what is it about *college* football that makes you crave it so much?

    Because, you see, I’ve never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.

    Certainly, I can see why a college might sponsor intramural sports just as a way for their true scholars to have some fun and activity for their physical health and relaxation, but why should institutions whose raison d’etre is the life of the mind serve as a free (taxpayer-financed) training center for fantastically rich professional football team owners?

    It seems to me that, like baseball with its farm teams that the major league itself funds and recruits from, NFL should have to recruit, teach and pay its own dam*ed rookies, nowhere near the college campuses.

    • Replies: @Realist
    @JSM

    "Because, you see, I’ve never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics."

    That ship sailed decades ago. But most STEM majors don't give a crap about sports.

    , @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @JSM

    Yea, I have to say that I'm with you on this one. I get many universities benefit from the exposure and solidarity (and, presumably, more alumni donations in the future) that college sports brings. However, from a fan perspective, I just don't get it.

    What possible connection do the vast majority of players have with the students? They don't belong there academically. They're typically from poor neighborhoods. They're typically black, compared to a heavily white and Asian student body. For state schools, they're typically from another state. They typically major in subjects that few students study (African-American studies, etc.).

    For the vast majority of players, they're only connection to the students is the name on their helmet.

    And, yet, college kids and alumni (as well as the general population for state schools - Nebraska games have a fair chunk of the state's total population at games) come out and watch in droves. I find it all very bizarre.

    Btw, I think that sports are wonderful and agree completely that playing a sport can teach you many very good life lessons - except golf, which only causes pain. I'll admit that I've never been a huge fan of watching sports, but I still get together here and there with friends and neighbors to watch professional sports. But hypocrisy and dishonesty of "college" sports is too much for me.

    Not surprisingly, Eric Cartman had it right regarding college sports:

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xiy2ry_south-park-compares-student-athletes-to-slaves_news

    , @Anonymous
    @JSM

    "Because, you see, I’ve never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.

    "Certainly, I can see why a college might sponsor intramural sports just as a way for their true scholars to have some fun and activity for their physical health and relaxation, but why should institutions whose raison d’etre is the life of the mind serve as a free (taxpayer-financed) training center for fantastically rich professional football team owners?"

    College football probably started off as essentially a way for true scholars (okay, maybe not true scholars, but reasonably typical students) to have some fun and engage in some friendly competition. Unfortunately, it's devolved into the generally unwholesome freak show we have today.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    , @Lagertha
    @JSM

    weirdly, I know a lot about, "...training center for...for professional football..." and this subject matter of college ball.

    Decades ago college football became the "training center for the NFL," because no other system (like the farm teams/baseball you mentioned) existed for High School players. And, this simply has continued. Of course, as many here believe, many players in college are not there to study....although I have met several players that were excellent students (RG3 & Luck, Singletary, many not so famous).

    There are also universities with Div 1 football programs that are better at shaping and guiding young players (corralling them in and limiting their free time on campus) than others...don't want to pick examples since I'm trying to make a different point. There are also universities that have a tremendous, stupefying set-up with tutors and remedial programs/math centers/writing workshops (all separate from the main campus/students) for the athletes to retain a GPA so the university can hope that the players are still "student-athletes."

    However, I have met many former Div 1 players who have admitted to me that college ball "saved them" or changed their life's trajectory. At one memorable championship dinner (reunion dinner) a moving speech by a particularly banged-up former champion, stated that not one of their teammates was dead, in jail or homeless....and he mentioned some of the millionaires as well out of a group of 90 or so guys. A gratitude/love to the coaches was expressed in a way I had never witnessed before. A lot of wives were teary.

    The main reason for the HS-College-NFL pipeline: HS senior/freshmen college player's body is not mature enough - males are at their peak at 23. They go through an unbelievable process of growth, conditioning and weight gain during those 4 years in college after which they have that VERY small chance to get into the NFL draft. So, they are in the college football program for their body to be the size it needs to be to withstand the intensity of NFL level playing - and, be at least a little bit more enlightened.

    And, yes, many players have never been away from home (like many undergrads,) flown on an airplane, even had proper nutrition as children/teenagers. Of course, many of the tactics of the game are much more complicated than HS, so there is a lot of learning about the strategy of the game...a lot of sitting and listening to offensive/defensive coaches (the corralling and keeping them busy most of the day,) a lot of film viewing.

    Soccer, a sport I know a lot about (played in college) has it's "soccer academies," Olympic Development Programs, and premier teams for teenagers - all developed since the late 80's or so). Most HS boys play not just on their school team, but year 'round on a premier/academy/ODP team. If you are really good (goes for tennis, too) you pretty much have to move to Florida to attend the primary soccer academy/boarding school that is a feeder to the MLS.

    I paid big bucks for one of my sons and his soccer playing; I was happy to do it; it was a thrilling time - he still plays and has been lucky to work on the production of the World Cup and such events.

    Now Klinsmann would like to disband all these soccer programs (won't happen) because it does cut-off potentially many players whose families simply can't afford the programs, the team expenses, the camps, the academies. There is a certain level of elitism in soccer since so many programs for teenagers costs A LOT - Europe does a better job. However, I don't see American kids ever playing soccer for fun in a park (Texas being an exception) like they do all over the world, so where are they going to get the skills? Soccer is relatively cheap...it has always been the "poor man's sport" since you don't need a lot of expensive equipment, but to become exceptionally skilled, you are stuck paying a lot for it in the USA. Many youth sport programs require a big investment of time and money for parents if that kid (or parent) harbors the fantasy that their kid will get recruited somewhere, get to the next level, whatever it may be. Even skateboarding has become "professionalized" which irks the purists/renegades.

    In football, of course, there is pay-to-play (we paid $350/yr for our 2 sons) every season for any sport in public High Schools. And, yes, it does seem that Universities with football programs spend an awful lot of money for their teams...but many schools have also dropped their programs. I don't think the Big 12/10/SEC etc., will ever follow that, no matter how controversial the game gets or the behavior of some players inflames the public. And, Ivy Leagues have known (they have the data) for a long time that football games (especially a successful team) opens up those alumni wallets like nothing else. It is bread and circuses.

    I just don't see that cultural change happening when Americans will give up football; concussions, battery, assault and all. Even biting an opponent (Luis @ WCup) did not get him kicked-out of professional soccer for good - you have to kill someone to get kicked out. The NFL is the epitome of big business (too big to fail)...there's just too much money in it/too many jobs involved in football for American people to give it up. Now, rugby...well I like that the most! Fencing is a close second!

    , @Anonymous
    @JSM

    Jock-sniffing is the national pastime. There are people who will have withdrawal symptoms if they don't inhale the fumes of a sweaty jock-strap.

    , @Anonymous
    @JSM

    Football as the preeminent TV spectacle is not that old. It started getting really big in the 70s, so it's only about a generation old as the major TV viewing spectacle.

    Before then, major league baseball was the main spectator sport, and its main mass medium was radio.

    , @Twinkie
    @JSM


    Because, you see, I’ve never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.
     
    On this, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Academics should come first, no if's and but's.

    Certainly, I can see why a college might sponsor intramural sports just as a way for their true scholars to have some fun and activity for their physical health and relaxation, but why should institutions whose raison d’etre is the life of the mind serve as a free (taxpayer-financed) training center for fantastically rich professional football team owners?
     
    Team athletics is not simply about fun. It builds camaraderie and social cohesion, and not just for the team, but for the whole school. The problem is not with athletics per se, but with commercialization of it that degrades academics and morals.

    Bring back scholar-athletes again, I say!
    , @MC
    @JSM

    "I am curious about your being conflicted. I ask sincerely, because I just don’t “get” the appeal of football, at all, but particularly, what is it about *college* football that makes you crave it so much?"

    Well, "crave" might be putting it a little too strongly, but there's a lot that I love about college football.

    1. The game itself is a fun spectacle of athleticism and strategy.
    2. Pure territorial tribalism strikes a chord.
    3. Nostalgia for an exciting time in one's life.
    4. Traditions which echo from the past (there's something neat about how Michigan or OSU will always have the same basic colors, uniforms, fight songs, etc)
    5. 90% of the players know that they have no future in the pros. Thus, they are playing purely for pride, which makes for good drama.
    6. Rivalries which are quite old for a young country like ours.

    I could think of more, but you get the point. There's a lot to like about college football, but the utter shambolicism of guys with a 13 ACT score pretending to be students at UCLA or UNC or wherever does detract from the enjoyment. If the NFL started a minor league, I would probably still watch college football and enjoy it more. In fact, when all the best high school basketball players used to jump to the NBA without stopping at a college (this is essentially prohibited now) back in the Oughts, that was probably my favorite time to watch college basketball.

  27. Seeing all those perky female trainers on the sidelines has always looked odd to me.

    • Replies: @ScarletNumber
    @iffen

    It's not odd. They are passed around from athlete to athlete. Open secret.

  28. @Anonymous
    @grey enlightenment


    any tuition-paying Republican father

    for whatever reason George Will came came to mind when I read that line

     

    For me what comes to mind is some Tahoe-driving, Limbaugh-listening, church-going, successful businessman from an upper-middle class suburb of Atlanta. One of these guys with southern accents I hear calling up Limbaugh ("mega dittos Rush") arguing that our problems are due to high taxes or Obama shredding the Constitution or the 14th Amendment or not having a strong leader like Ronald Reagan (who, btw, gave us modern Islamic extremism).

    I don't think smart kids from rich liberal parents go to Vanderbilt or other schools in the South. They go to Bard or Williams or Bowdoin or Wellesley...

    Replies: @Lot, @yaqub the mad scientist, @shrinker, @Brutusale, @Curle

    I don’t think smart kids from rich liberal parents go to Vanderbilt or other schools in the South.

    Duke, Tulane, and Vanderbilt get a good number of northeastern students.

    I don’t know about smart though. Vanderbilt’s official cost of attendance is now $63,300 a year.

    http://www.vanderbilt.edu/financialaid/costs.php

    Over four years, and including interest that starts running while still in school, and annual increases, you’re looking at graduating with $280,000 in debt for a degree there without some scholarship.

    Paying that off takes $19,000 a year for 30 years at 5.25%. We’ve become a society that destroys our young with debt because they made what everyone tells them is a responsible choice when they’re 18 and going off to a good college.

    While there are now government programs to reduce monthly payments based on income, that much debt still shows up on their credit report and stops them from getting a mortgage and thus buying a house and procreating responsibly. And the phaseout of the repayment assistance operates like a very high marginal surtax. So you’re not much better off making $80,000 v $50,000 once you’ve been debt-enslaved by student loans.

    • Replies: @Owly
    @Lot

    As someone who holds a masters degree in engineering from Vanderbilt, I can tell you it's not worth nearly $150K. It stands to reason that a bachelors degree from Vanderbilt definitely isn't worth it either.

    , @rustbeltreader
    @Lot

    "I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create." - William Blake

    You're in and then you aren't. There are bait and switch deals. They'll make the loan good...in 30 years...refinanced twice so make it 40 years. There's the all important, "there are tax benefits" angle. Couldn't get into the right school. Everybody on the team got a full ride.

    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    @Lot

    "I don’t know about smart though. Vanderbilt’s official cost of attendance is now $63,300 a year...Over four years, and including interest that starts running while still in school, and annual increases, you’re looking at graduating with $280,000 in debt for a degree there without some scholarship."

    I have a difficult time believing very many people are going nearly $300K in debt for a mere B.A./B.S. from a prestigious, but decidedly less-than-Ivy-League university. I'm pretty sure most of the students shelling out that kinda dough, have wealthy parents who are picking up their tab.

    But I guess I could be wrong.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  29. The odious Lou Holtz had Notre Dame lower their standards and one of his prizes promptly raped one of the maidens on campus.

  30. In ’64 that was $475,915.73 worth of education vs. 2014.
    http://www.buyupside.com/calculators/purchasepowerjan08.htm
    With that kind of money you used to be able to be in business. Now it’s more debt and promises of debt and dollars not buying much. You are getting $475K for $60K now. What a deal! Plus since it takes $100K+ in sales to churn out those $5K paychecks lawsuits are easier money than earning it. The State Penn rape case generated tens of millions in legal fees, settlements and such. It’s a racket.

  31. Girls want the bbc. Can’t say I blame them

    • Replies: @tokugawa
    @GUI

    Whiskey?

    , @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever...
    @GUI

    "Girls want the bbc. Can’t say I blame them"
    Yeah man, them girls love the Big Block Chevs - Fast and Furious!

    , @Semi-employed White Guy
    @GUI

    Don't sell the swc short, although it may be.

  32. @Anonymous
    @grey enlightenment


    any tuition-paying Republican father

    for whatever reason George Will came came to mind when I read that line

     

    For me what comes to mind is some Tahoe-driving, Limbaugh-listening, church-going, successful businessman from an upper-middle class suburb of Atlanta. One of these guys with southern accents I hear calling up Limbaugh ("mega dittos Rush") arguing that our problems are due to high taxes or Obama shredding the Constitution or the 14th Amendment or not having a strong leader like Ronald Reagan (who, btw, gave us modern Islamic extremism).

    I don't think smart kids from rich liberal parents go to Vanderbilt or other schools in the South. They go to Bard or Williams or Bowdoin or Wellesley...

    Replies: @Lot, @yaqub the mad scientist, @shrinker, @Brutusale, @Curle

    They go to Sewanee, Brevard, Appalachian State, places like that.

  33. @Gender Inflation
    During my time at UT Knoxville, both for undergrad and law school, I don't think the football players ever mingled with the general student body. If even a semi-famous football player was sighted on campus, it was usually a huge ordeal (that exploded all over facebook/twitter). I'm not sure where they keep the athletes, but it's evidently away from everyone else generally...

    This includes in the classroom as well. If football players are actually taking classes, but no one ever sees them in classes, then where are they?

    I think this poses an interesting situation. Due to fact that despite the segregation from everyone else, SEC football players are still raping undergraduate women (notice it's never a woman from the JD/MBA program...).

    Despite these sacrifices, both the Vanderbilt and Tennessee football programs are pathetic. So that leaves us with the question...

    Is having undergraduate women raped worth having a losing football progam?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lot, @Eric, @Stan Adams, @Mr. Blank, @David In TN, @George

    “Is having undergraduate women raped worth having a losing football progam?”
    The smart money is riding on the answer the university will choose, yet never speak aloud, being, “Sure. As long as it’s a highly profitable losing football program.”

  34. Maybe those fathers could encourage their girls to watch “Damsels in Distress” as a how-to in recognizing and curtailing their hypergamous drive. And to avoid Cathars who have non-procreative sex from the other end much like college football cornerbacks.

  35. HEY, BLOND HAIRED RAPIST FRAT BOYS, LEAVE FEMALE COLLEGE STUDENTS ALONE. All in all you’re just a another brick in the wall.

  36. My father took me to get books on the first day of school and one of my history books was the Autobiography of Malcom X, the hard earned money wasted on that liberal arts ‘education’ is sickening in retrospect.

  37. The service academies have the same problem.

    Annapolis just wrapped up a sexual assault scandal last year, involving – wait for it – members of the football team. And one explanation for the fact that the Air Force Academy has the highest rate of assault among the service academies (1 in 10 female cadets, allegedly) is that they’ve had problems with – wait for it – “a core group of football players.”

    In other words…blacks.

  38. @MC
    This gets at the larger question of why a college graduate would feel any affinity with some illiterate thug just because they "attended" the same school. I wonder if the better sort of schools will start to ditch major sports in favor of actual student athletics. I'm a huge college football fan, and therefore conflicted about this.

    Replies: @JSM, @Grumpy, @The Anti-Gnostic, @anon

    Back in the 90s there was a big push among the faculty at Rice to withdraw the university from Division 1 sports. The effort didn’t succeed… maybe because of the 72,000-seat stadium, but more likely because Owl boosters could point to the Stanford example. Meanwhile, the faculty were thinking of the University of Chicago model.

  39. @Gender Inflation
    During my time at UT Knoxville, both for undergrad and law school, I don't think the football players ever mingled with the general student body. If even a semi-famous football player was sighted on campus, it was usually a huge ordeal (that exploded all over facebook/twitter). I'm not sure where they keep the athletes, but it's evidently away from everyone else generally...

    This includes in the classroom as well. If football players are actually taking classes, but no one ever sees them in classes, then where are they?

    I think this poses an interesting situation. Due to fact that despite the segregation from everyone else, SEC football players are still raping undergraduate women (notice it's never a woman from the JD/MBA program...).

    Despite these sacrifices, both the Vanderbilt and Tennessee football programs are pathetic. So that leaves us with the question...

    Is having undergraduate women raped worth having a losing football progam?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lot, @Eric, @Stan Adams, @Mr. Blank, @David In TN, @George

    I went to a private university in the southeastern United States that boasted a nationally-prominent football program. (That’s as specific as I’m going to get.) During my years there, the football team wasn’t nearly the powerhouse it had been, but it was still a big-time operation.

    I saw football players around campus all the time – even in the library (!) – and even had a couple of classes with one of the on-again, off-again starting quarterbacks. (Nice guy, but not brilliant and definitely not NFL material.) And, no, I wasn’t taking Rocks for Jocks.

    The players were recognized and acknowledged as they walked around, but it wasn’t as if people regularly dropped what they were doing and screamed, “OMIGOD JOCKS ARE AMONG US WOW!”

    Now, I knew a few guys who worked in the athlete-tutoring program, and, yes, some of their stories were along the lines of what Tom Wolfe wrote about in Charlotte Simmons. But they maintained that there were some fairly smart guys on the team.

    One guy in particular, a mulatto who went on to become a big name, was said to be surprisingly sharp. Supposedly he talked about pursuing a law degree after his NFL career was over.

    They did confirm that quite a few of the football players, including some of the white ones, were rock-dumb morons. Some of the knuckle-draggers resented the fact that they had to go to class and pretend to be real students. (I couldn’t blame them for feeling angry – everyone knew they were there to play ball. Why go through the pretense?)

    • Replies: @Plethon
    @Stan Adams

    You did a poor job of hiding the fact that you went to the University of Miami.

  40. @Anonymous
    @grey enlightenment


    any tuition-paying Republican father

    for whatever reason George Will came came to mind when I read that line

     

    For me what comes to mind is some Tahoe-driving, Limbaugh-listening, church-going, successful businessman from an upper-middle class suburb of Atlanta. One of these guys with southern accents I hear calling up Limbaugh ("mega dittos Rush") arguing that our problems are due to high taxes or Obama shredding the Constitution or the 14th Amendment or not having a strong leader like Ronald Reagan (who, btw, gave us modern Islamic extremism).

    I don't think smart kids from rich liberal parents go to Vanderbilt or other schools in the South. They go to Bard or Williams or Bowdoin or Wellesley...

    Replies: @Lot, @yaqub the mad scientist, @shrinker, @Brutusale, @Curle

    Oh, you’re blaming Reagan for Muslim angst now too? I seem to remember at the time when Tom Hanks was promoting his film about it, a few people observing, “Too soon,” but not many also drew out that line to Brzezinski encouraging Saddam Hussein to invade Iran (’79 and ’80 being banner years for unintendedly consequential ideas). Anyway RR was by the least charitable view inconsistently faithful to the apple-a-day application of Arab attitude adjustment, e.g. Lebanon barracks. But you seem to insinuate he either nurtured jihad or did nothing — the guy can’t win either way.

  41. The book Scoreboard Baby, by Ken Armstrong and Nick Perry about Rick Neuheisels reign at Univ of Washington, covers the same ground. Young Midlle Class White women with experience only of male peers, also White and Middle class, come into contact eagerly with local fame ghetto thug players and figure they can deal with them the way they did with Melvin the Math nerd at home.

    No the victims didn’t deserve it. But they were not at thug athlete parties to compare notes on class either. Sorry for noticing.

    Middle and upper class women thugging it up appear in many Dasheill Hamett stories. Presumably drwaing from his Pinkerton experience before and after WWI.

  42. Off Topic, but right up Steve’s alley:

    What’s going on with Patton Oswalt? Last year he caught flak for tweeting an iSteve article about PC being a war on noticing. Then it came out that he’s been friends for some time with Jim Goad, the hilarious writer for Taki, who’s pretty much openly racist, homophobic, and anti-semitic. Now Buzzfeed has what appears to be a fairly recent picture of Oswalt hanging out with not just Goad, but also Nick Bougas. Bougas is much better known as A. Wyatt Mann, the cartoonist who drew sometimes hilarious but always shockingly offensive cartoons about Jews, blacks, and Mexicans for White Aryan Resistance, Tom Metzger’s old newspaper.

    Oswalt has always been pretty left-wing politically, but it’s always been sort of clear from his rants about the tastes and intelligence of KFC customers that he doesn’t think much of low IQ blacks, which pretty much everyone knows is KFC’s main base. But he seems to be really pushing the envelope hanging out with Jim Goad and A. Wyatt Mann. But this article has been out for a few days and I haven’t noticed it getting much traction. It’s hard to believe Larry the Cable Guy could hang out with Goad and Bougas and not catch hell.

    And notice how the writer tries to spin Bougas’s cartoons as possibly “ironic”, saying that Bougas may have drawn them to ridicule racists. They appeared in Tom Metzger’s paper, for crying out loud. They were apparently commissioned by Metzger. The idea that these cartoons were”ironic” is ludicrous.

    It’s all very odd.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/the-surprisingly-mainstream-history-of-the-internets-favorit#.td8pKv36lA

    (The picture of Oswald, Goad, and Bougas is at the end of the article.)

    • Replies: @SFG
    @Trayvon Zimmerman

    A shock comedian might not believe in political correctness, even if he thinks income inequality is too high and global warming is real. Also, plenty of PUAs have every reason to support abortion and contraception--less chance of getting stuck with child support bills.

    Heck, I actually lean left a lot of the time (I think businessmen have too much money and power and global warming is real) but this sensitivity crap drives me crazy. We have a First Amendment, not a 'safe space' for every group with a few million dollars to spend on a grievance lobby and a sympathetic ear from the liberal media.

    There was also a certain convergence between Satanists and Nazis, as I recall--you don't think people who are fascinated by evil are going to be interested in the prime exemplars of it, at least according to the modern-day media?

    Replies: @Trayvon Zimmerman

    , @Danindc
    @Trayvon Zimmerman

    Interesting. I think he's trying to cover this up with his blatantly left wing Twitter feed. He's gone round the bend. Still took some guts to quote Steve...

  43. And while you’re at it how about asking the same fathers why they pay all that money for what amounts to a gigantic Marxist reeducation for their kid.

    The rape is just one piece of the package, dad.

  44. “In 2004, prompted by these and other scandals involving female hostesses, the NCAA issued recruiting guidelines, including the elimination of gender-specific hostess group”

    I like that , the NCAA had to tell them to stop pimping out their female students. Why didn’t they just hire some “hostesses” from local strip clubs ?

    The NFL , National League of Felons is what it is. Soon to be fags and felons :

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/11/23/conn-football-captain-18-charged-with-fatally-stabbing-lover-who-didnt-want-to/

    I wonder why this “hate crime” isn’t national news ?

  45. I attended Vanderbilt many years ago. On the first day of my first class, I noticed a group of big guys sitting in the back of the classroom who opened identical folders with complete notes for the course. Turned out they were all football players. Most didn’t bother to attend the lectures after that first week. Poor me, I actually had to go to class and write my notes myself.

    Meanwhile, the high-rise dorm I lived in was in very poor condition. Unless you stopped at the floor on which the football players lived. Wow, what a difference… fresh paint, nice wallpaper, real furniture. I also noticed all the pretty girls constantly there. I’ve always wondered if the school organized their presence, and if so, what their exact duties were.

    My conclusion way back then was that Vandy, which always views itself as one of the top southern schools, was irredeemably corrupt when it came to football. Times have changed a lot in the decades since… I hope Vanderbilt has, too.

  46. Turn your daughter into a competent soccer player and she can score a Title IX soccer scholarship at Vanderbilt. This way daddy will be paying lots less to have his girl escorting 6ft6 DeAndre around campus.

    • Replies: @Renault
    @Clyde

    Or better yet, crew. She won't even need to be competent, just willing to sign up.

    Women's crew has 2o full scholarships per team.

    Replies: @Clyde

  47. @GUI
    Girls want the bbc. Can't say I blame them

    Replies: @tokugawa, @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever..., @Semi-employed White Guy

    Whiskey?

  48. @Lot
    @Anonymous


    I don’t think smart kids from rich liberal parents go to Vanderbilt or other schools in the South.
     
    Duke, Tulane, and Vanderbilt get a good number of northeastern students.

    I don't know about smart though. Vanderbilt's official cost of attendance is now $63,300 a year.

    http://www.vanderbilt.edu/financialaid/costs.php

    Over four years, and including interest that starts running while still in school, and annual increases, you're looking at graduating with $280,000 in debt for a degree there without some scholarship.

    Paying that off takes $19,000 a year for 30 years at 5.25%. We've become a society that destroys our young with debt because they made what everyone tells them is a responsible choice when they're 18 and going off to a good college.

    While there are now government programs to reduce monthly payments based on income, that much debt still shows up on their credit report and stops them from getting a mortgage and thus buying a house and procreating responsibly. And the phaseout of the repayment assistance operates like a very high marginal surtax. So you're not much better off making $80,000 v $50,000 once you've been debt-enslaved by student loans.

    Replies: @Owly, @rustbeltreader, @Kevin O'Keeffe

    As someone who holds a masters degree in engineering from Vanderbilt, I can tell you it’s not worth nearly $150K. It stands to reason that a bachelors degree from Vanderbilt definitely isn’t worth it either.

  49. “It was brutal. I didn’t get much sleep last night,” Leibowitz, of Stamford, Connecticut, said Tuesday. “Now I have to clean up the mess. I’m calling all my relatives, I’m going, ‘I’m sorry it’s not happening.’” http://college.usatoday.com/2015/02/17/carnegie-mellon-tells-800-applicants-theyre-in-then-out/

    Look at all money you are going to save. The toll! Pittsburgh Business Times “Charitable contributions to Carnegie Mellon University last year hit $137.6 million”…they must be trying to save a buck on costly stationary. The ATM’s were spitting out free cash last week. Such is a computer mediated world.

  50. @Jason Roberts
    http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-nfl-combine-drill-places-player-alone-in-room,38029/

    Replies: @rustbeltreader

    “Welcome to Carnegie Mellon!” Get Lost!

  51. @Lot
    @Anonymous


    I don’t think smart kids from rich liberal parents go to Vanderbilt or other schools in the South.
     
    Duke, Tulane, and Vanderbilt get a good number of northeastern students.

    I don't know about smart though. Vanderbilt's official cost of attendance is now $63,300 a year.

    http://www.vanderbilt.edu/financialaid/costs.php

    Over four years, and including interest that starts running while still in school, and annual increases, you're looking at graduating with $280,000 in debt for a degree there without some scholarship.

    Paying that off takes $19,000 a year for 30 years at 5.25%. We've become a society that destroys our young with debt because they made what everyone tells them is a responsible choice when they're 18 and going off to a good college.

    While there are now government programs to reduce monthly payments based on income, that much debt still shows up on their credit report and stops them from getting a mortgage and thus buying a house and procreating responsibly. And the phaseout of the repayment assistance operates like a very high marginal surtax. So you're not much better off making $80,000 v $50,000 once you've been debt-enslaved by student loans.

    Replies: @Owly, @rustbeltreader, @Kevin O'Keeffe

    “I must create a system or be enslaved by another mans; I will not reason and compare: my business is to create.” – William Blake

    You’re in and then you aren’t. There are bait and switch deals. They’ll make the loan good…in 30 years…refinanced twice so make it 40 years. There’s the all important, “there are tax benefits” angle. Couldn’t get into the right school. Everybody on the team got a full ride.

  52. @Gender Inflation
    During my time at UT Knoxville, both for undergrad and law school, I don't think the football players ever mingled with the general student body. If even a semi-famous football player was sighted on campus, it was usually a huge ordeal (that exploded all over facebook/twitter). I'm not sure where they keep the athletes, but it's evidently away from everyone else generally...

    This includes in the classroom as well. If football players are actually taking classes, but no one ever sees them in classes, then where are they?

    I think this poses an interesting situation. Due to fact that despite the segregation from everyone else, SEC football players are still raping undergraduate women (notice it's never a woman from the JD/MBA program...).

    Despite these sacrifices, both the Vanderbilt and Tennessee football programs are pathetic. So that leaves us with the question...

    Is having undergraduate women raped worth having a losing football progam?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lot, @Eric, @Stan Adams, @Mr. Blank, @David In TN, @George

    I was also at a big football school at the same time a number of big names were supposedly attending. (Like another commenter said, that’s as specific as I am going to get.) And I can confidently say that in all the years I attended, the ONLY time I saw any “stars” on campus was once when I was walking to class, and I saw a couple of big names stopped at a stop sign in a Ferrari. (It was an open top car, so it was obvious who they were.)

    To be fair: The coach at that time was not a guy who was famous for high ethical standards. This might be something that varies from one school to the next, or one player to the next, or (probably most significantly) one coach to the next. I know people who attended Auburn at the same time as Bo Jackson, and they all say they saw him regularly attending classes and that he was a fixture around campus. So presumably the whole system isn’t a TOTAL fraud. It just varies quite a bit.

  53. @Gender Inflation
    During my time at UT Knoxville, both for undergrad and law school, I don't think the football players ever mingled with the general student body. If even a semi-famous football player was sighted on campus, it was usually a huge ordeal (that exploded all over facebook/twitter). I'm not sure where they keep the athletes, but it's evidently away from everyone else generally...

    This includes in the classroom as well. If football players are actually taking classes, but no one ever sees them in classes, then where are they?

    I think this poses an interesting situation. Due to fact that despite the segregation from everyone else, SEC football players are still raping undergraduate women (notice it's never a woman from the JD/MBA program...).

    Despite these sacrifices, both the Vanderbilt and Tennessee football programs are pathetic. So that leaves us with the question...

    Is having undergraduate women raped worth having a losing football progam?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lot, @Eric, @Stan Adams, @Mr. Blank, @David In TN, @George

    I recall a magazine article about Peyton Manning when he was at Tennessee. It said that Peyton went out of his way to mix with regular students and implied this made him rare among the football players.

    By the way, when Peyton Manning’s maternal grandfather found out his daughter was dating Ole Miss QB Archie Manning circa 1968, he was delighted and said “Bring him by so I can approve of him.”

    The old-line SEC fans overlook the criminality of the players and pretend things are still what they were 50 years ago.

    • Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist
    @David In TN

    My father said that Archie was the same way at Ole Miss.

  54. If you want to get into the racial and sexual dynamics of college football … yes, I did see some very tall and muscular black athletes strutting around with some very nice-looking white girls.

    Of course, there were some very not-bad-looking black girls on campus, and the brothas did not shun them. It was not uncommon to see a jacked-up black guy with a sista in tow.

    But I also saw white players – even benchwarmers – with some very nice-looking white girls. Even the ugly, fat, offensive-lineman types tended to draw not-bad-looking chicks into their orbit. The bigger the guy, the smaller the girl – 6’7″ guys seemed to have a thing for 5’1″ girls, and vice-versa.

    I was girlfriend-less all through college, so, yes, I did jealously look to see what other guys had that I didn’t. The library (where I worked) was not too far from the athletic buildings, so when I walked to the bus stop I often passed by Jock Central.

    Like I said, one year I had a couple of classes with one of the starting quarterbacks. I didn’t know him very well, but we chatted a few times. One time I helped him with an assignment, and after that he always made a point of saying hello to me whenever we saw each other.

    One day, I ran into him in the food court – yes, even the mighty football players ate in the food court – and he invited me to join him and one of his teammates. It was a friendly gesture, so I sat down at their table. I was (and still am) a loner bookworm nerd, so I felt a bit strange about having lunch with two testosterone-pumped jocks. But we got through it.

    His teammate was also white – tall, muscular, and as blonde-haired, blue-eyed, and square-jawed as Haven Monahan could ever hope to be.

    (Alas, his alpha-Aryan genes went to waste. He died a childless waiter at the age of 26 – got drunk and smashed up his car. The things one learns from Googling random names from one’s past.)

    At one point, the teammate’s cell phone chirped. This was in the clamshell days, so he flipped it open to read the text. He immediately burst out laughing. He showed the phone to the quarterback, who likewise burst out laughing. Then he showed it to me.

    The message read: “SO FUCKING SORE RIGHT NOW. WHAT TIME TONIGHT?”

    In the midst of their laughter, I heard the teammate say something like “fucked that bitch so hard last night.” I worked up some fake laughter of my own, but not knowing the story behind the text, decided to say nothing.

    Finally, the teammate asked me, “So, do you have a girlfriend?”

    “Not right now,” I replied.

    “Yeah, me neither. But I’m fucking this one bitch right now, and she’s, like, stalking me and shit. She wants me every night.”

    “Hopefully she won’t end up boiling your bunny rabbit.”

    “What?”

    “Never mind.”

    “No, what does that mean?”

    “It’s from an old movie called Fatal Attraction. This guy fucks this woman, but even after he tells her to get lost she won’t leave him alone. So she goes to his house and boils his daughter’s pet bunny rabbit on the stove.”

    After an interval of awkward silence, the quarterback said, “I’ll bet she feels like you’re fucking her with a rabbit.”

    The teammate snorted again.

    “You know,” the quarterback said, leaning over a bit and lowering his voice, “this guy has the biggest fucking dick on the team.”

    The teammate looked embarrassed, but he smirked.

    “Does he?” I asked.

    “Yep. He’s a white boy with a black dick. Mine’s big, but his is fucking huge. That bitch is getting plowed. ”

    “Wow.”

    More awkward silence ensued. Finally someone started talking about something else.

    To this day, I have no idea why my classmate took the conversation in that direction.

    At any rate, it would seem that football players don’t have trouble getting laid.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Stan Adams

    "One day, I ran into him in the food court – yes, even the mighty football players ate in the food court – and he invited me to join him and one of his teammates."

    Dude, that could have been the changing point of your life! Why didn't you re-invent yourself from that day?

  55. And Russell Wilson is getting pilloried for what, giving a good review to “50 Shades of Grey”… The kid just can’t stay out of trouble this month

  56. @Lot
    @Gender Inflation


    During my time at UT Knoxville, both for undergrad and law school, I don’t think the football players ever mingled with the general student body.
     
    That was my experience too at a big state school. I don't think I ever had a single class or went to a single party with a football or basketball player.

    To avoid the pathologies of a big football program, a huge state school is almost as good as a school where there is none at all. UT-Austin has 38,000 undergrads, so that's about 1 in 200 who plays football.

    A campus with 6800 undergraduates (the number for Vanderbilt) the problems will be much more concentrated.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @FWIW

    Maybe football factories could open a satellite campus / training facility: UT-Skull Island, say.

  57. @Anonymous
    "But months ago, the alleged victim in the case told police that former Vanderbilt football coach James Franklin had called her in for a private meeting, saying he wanted her to get “15 pretty girls” together to form a team to assist with recruiting — something he told her all colleges did, according to court filings."

    Franklin made headlines a little while back when said the following when he was on a radio show:

    “I’ve been saying it for a long time, I will not hire an assistant until I see his wife. If she looks the part and she’s a D-I recruit, then you got a chance to get hired. That’s part of the deal. There’s a very strong correlation between having the confidence, going up and talking to a woman, and being quick on your feet and having some personality and confidence and being articulate and confident, than it is walking into a high school and recruiting a kid and selling him.”

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    He does have a point.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Hah! You're probably right! But he should perhaps be a bit more subtle about his hiring criteria. Or, maybe not. : )

  58. We’re forgetting a major driver of college football and basketball: gambling. Which is run by organized crime, who also run prostitution. The link seems to be the major factor here.

    Many of these college organizations recruiting heavily for Alma Mater are gambling fronts/operations, with underworld figures involved, uniting with boosters to try to improve the odds of X or Y school winning next year or covering a point spread. Bookies love an overdog v. underdog matchup, because so many people will root on (and gamble on) an underdog winning or busting a spread; I know Patton said “America loves a winner” but really “America loves an underdog who BECOMES a winner, and then immediately starts rooting for someone to beat the new winner.” And getting some alumni excited about a team’s new recruits will also make them bet heavily on Alma Mater in games the following season.

    In pro sports, you can see this starkly in the way Americans viewed the Patriots in 2000-01 (plucky underdogs, no-name quarterback, sin-oftheir-teeth wins against heavily favored opponents) versus the patriots of 2014-15 (stupid perfect team, BradyHate, etc.). Underdog status=beloved; overdog status=hated.

    But I digress a bit.

    College sports are a goldmine for organized crime, since the level of competition is almost as high as the pros, they get national games and exposure, AND the players aren’t paid, so the money from the bookies goes further when they want points shaved/a game thrown. Bookies can thus control the outcomes in these sports better than the pros; thus, a higher profit for bookies.

    Since underworlders are running these recruitment programs, I think what’s going on is that the women involved are young prostitutes whom the gamblers either get to enroll in the school (so they can plausibly be students) or else are just given school credentials for these organizations but don’t actually attend. They bring in girls from an underworld-run brothel and pretend they just are really into football.

    I can believe that a certain percentage (maybe 20%) are sincere jock sniffers for their school, but I think the vast majority are being paid by the hour/ordered to do so by the Russian mafia. Then again, given the deplorable nature of women, I’m quite open to the idea that I am wrong and that all these women are freshman coeds who are whores at heart. But the money/gambling/organized crime factor seems all too likely a prime mover here.

    • Replies: @Danindc
    @whorefinder

    Interesting theory about the Russian mob. Completely wrong but interesting.

    Replies: @whorefinder

  59. @manton
    Once again, Steve, you are oversimplifying the plot of A Man In Full. I have an article coming out about this, which was supposed to be published this winter, but has now been bumped to spring.

    Suffice it to say, the "rape" is questionable at best and the girl is not exactly a victim.

    I got into it over this with one of your commenters a while back who was outraged that Wolfe didn't have the "courage" to blame the whole situation on blacks. But Wolfe is wise and observant enough to know/see that the girls are to a very large extent chasing these "athletes," who may not be good men, but aren't so much predators as gluttons feasting at a buffet of the willing.

    Replies: @FWIW

    Yea .. as I recall the book, it was quite nuanced about the ‘rape’.

    That is, the first part was consensual … and then it got murky. And the girl was upset but not destroyed by it and anxious to *not* be the victim.

    The best part of the entire thing being that it is so much like today. Something happened. Something was not quite right .. yet nothing clear cut happened. No evidence except he/she said. And the girl knowing better than to jump into the lifelong victim role.

    I preferred the scene at the Art Museum. Where there was no upside to noticing that the discovered paintings involved men in prison getting it on.

  60. @Lot
    @Gender Inflation


    During my time at UT Knoxville, both for undergrad and law school, I don’t think the football players ever mingled with the general student body.
     
    That was my experience too at a big state school. I don't think I ever had a single class or went to a single party with a football or basketball player.

    To avoid the pathologies of a big football program, a huge state school is almost as good as a school where there is none at all. UT-Austin has 38,000 undergrads, so that's about 1 in 200 who plays football.

    A campus with 6800 undergraduates (the number for Vanderbilt) the problems will be much more concentrated.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @FWIW

    Of the 120 athletic departments in Division I-A (sorry, the Football Bowl Subdivision) just 22 were self-sufficient last year.

    That’s actually actually an improvement from 2009, when only 14 schools turned a “profit.”

    Meanwhile, the median loss for the remaining 98 program is $11.3 million. That difference must be made up by the institution they belong to.

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ncaa-revenue-expense-report-2011-6#ixzz3S5Citzz2

    This is old, but the principle still holds.

    A school like Vandy has zero chance of ever making a buck. There is always a dream of turing it around — have one great year and then become one of the ‘haves’ .. but those days are over.

    Even if you get someone like T Boone Pickens, who spent almost $200 million on Oklahoma State, its almost impossible. Why do the rest of the schools pay big money to be the whipping boys for the money making schools? I have no idea. No way around the average school having a 6-6 record .. and for every big winning school, there is its complement. Not much school spirit around 3-9 records.

    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @FWIW

    Not only are football programs extremely expensive for the money losers, but thanks to the stupidity of (the questionably interpreted) Title IX, having one means eliminating a lot of other men's sports - mostly the ones that draw a higher quality of student.

    , @GW
    @FWIW

    Athletic departments aren't concerned with profit because they don't have shareholders which demand a return on investment. What they do have are alumni who demand some level of athletic success for their football and basketball teams. People take pride in organizations they're tied to--and the most visible thing associated with large public universities is the football team (some schools value basketball). T. Boone Pickens was tired of losing Bedlam every year. Following recent upgrades to the stadium, football facilities, and coaching staff; the Cowboys have had some success both nationally (won the Fiesta Bowl in 2011 season) and against the rival Sooners (2-2 last four years, lost previous 8 in a row).

    A better metric is revenue. Revenue is what allows you to hire the best coaches, upgrade the football facilities which draw the best recruits, get the best training and nutrition programs, and other things which contribute to winning on the field or court.

  61. Steve, as a Rice alumnus, you might find this 2003 report by Thomas Haskell of the Rice history department interesting.

    “The Faculty and Four Decades of Athletic Reform at Rice University”
    http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~faccoun/Ath_Reform_hist_SEPT_2003_6.pdf

    An excerpt:

    The Self Study of 1984… is especially interesting for the candor with which it reports on matters that later Rice administrators would try to keep hidden, not only from the general public, but from the faculty as well. The widening gap between athletic department revenues and expenses, for example, is set forth in graphic detail for each year of the decade 1974-83. Zeroing in on the most disturbing ethical issue to emerge from the previous self-study, the 1984 report traced a continuing decline in the mean combined SAT scores of the bottom quartile of athletes — from 871 in 1974 to 707 in 1977.

  62. “As someone who holds a masters degree in engineering from Vanderbilt, I can tell you it’s not worth nearly $150K.”

    I know a doctor and a lawyer (but no indian chief) from Vandy, both are doing quite well in San Diego. Seems you picked the wrong program, sport.

  63. @GUI
    Girls want the bbc. Can't say I blame them

    Replies: @tokugawa, @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever..., @Semi-employed White Guy

    “Girls want the bbc. Can’t say I blame them”
    Yeah man, them girls love the Big Block Chevs – Fast and Furious!

  64. @Gender Inflation
    During my time at UT Knoxville, both for undergrad and law school, I don't think the football players ever mingled with the general student body. If even a semi-famous football player was sighted on campus, it was usually a huge ordeal (that exploded all over facebook/twitter). I'm not sure where they keep the athletes, but it's evidently away from everyone else generally...

    This includes in the classroom as well. If football players are actually taking classes, but no one ever sees them in classes, then where are they?

    I think this poses an interesting situation. Due to fact that despite the segregation from everyone else, SEC football players are still raping undergraduate women (notice it's never a woman from the JD/MBA program...).

    Despite these sacrifices, both the Vanderbilt and Tennessee football programs are pathetic. So that leaves us with the question...

    Is having undergraduate women raped worth having a losing football progam?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lot, @Eric, @Stan Adams, @Mr. Blank, @David In TN, @George

    Female college basketball player ends up as single mom after marrying male college basketball player. Point being maybe the female teams are there for the money making male teams.

    Two Classes, Divided by ‘I Do’ – The New York Times
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/15/us/two-classes-in-america-divided-by-i-do.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    This is what happens when student athletes get loose on campus. SUNY Binghamton once had high academic aspirations but as the Silicon Valley of the 1900s, Upstate NY, declined I think they decided to become another sports school, sort of like U of Indiana:

    Serb basketball player starts serving sentence
    http://news.yahoo.com/serb-basketball-player-starts-serving-sentence-20110121-041632-082.html

    I suspect prostitution of both male and female athletes is more common than supposed:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzy_Favor_Hamilton

  65. I’m curious, are we going to see feminists speak out against Afroman tomorrow?

  66. Wait until the feminists find out about this tragedy. Oh wait, that’s not interesting.

    http://therealpornwikileaks.com/cytherea-rape-case-update-new-details-suspects-charged-adults-no-bail/

  67. “Oswalt has always been pretty left-wing politically, but it’s always been sort of clear from his rants about the tastes and intelligence of KFC customers that he doesn’t think much of low IQ blacks, which pretty much everyone knows is KFC’s main base.”

    You overestimate how much Patton Oswalt looks down on Blacks. He was part of the Darren Wilson is a racist and Michael Brown ain’t do nuthin wrong bandwagon.
    http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/11/25/notable-celebrity-tweets-responding-to-ferguson-announcement/

    Patton Oswalt is not exactly the epitome of a politically incorrect comedian. If you want to see a politically incorrect comedian than check out Italian American Nick DiPaolo, especially when he is on “Opie & Anthony”.

    Patton Oswalt is extremely tame compared to Nick DiPaolo. Nick is an old school Italian while Patton is a typical WASPy SWPL type, he is soft.

  68. So schools use the lure of sex with attractive coeds to help in recruiting — ho hum, that has been going on for a long time. And presumably the women have a choice.

    The real scandal is that a lot of these Blacks are ghetto and do not belong in college at all — the corruption of admission standards is disgusting. Also it is very clear many of these big-time football schools function as little more than minor leagues for the NFL. And re the NFL:

    Football players are also four times more likely both to die from ALS (a fact that Goodell, despite participating in this past year’s ALS ice-bucket challenge, refuses to acknowledge) and to develop Alzheimer’s disease. An NFL player can expect to live twenty years less than the average American male. The average NFL career lasts 3.3 years. By that measure, each season costs an NFL player about six years of his life. Football fans, in other words, must ignore the fact that we are watching men kill themselves.

  69. I knew that last one wouldn’t make it past Komment Kontrol, but I had to try.

    It is fiction, yes – the first installment of an epic saga in which I befriend the Cracka Quarterback and the Blonde Jock, expose their Steroid Ring, infiltrate their Rapist Fraternity, and save the world by unleashing the undead soul of Seung-Hui Cho to drag these evil white Virginian football players into the Underworld where they belong.

    I am aided in my quest by the Fair Maiden (the Blonde Jock’s abused escort, paid by the university) and the Noble One (a superb black quarterback unfairly demoted to second-string by the corrupt Coach).

    In the end, the whites writhe in eternal torment, while the Fair Maiden and the Noble One band together to create a new breed of mulatto Übermenschen.

    The explicit dialogue is necessary to establish the white boys’ vile natures – they have no respect for a lady’s virtue.

    But never mind…

  70. But has any tuition-paying Republican father publicly expressed concerns about university officials trying to persuade his daughter to play geisha to visiting 18-year-old cornerbacks?

    That is an insult to real Geishas who are highly cultured and trained courtesans with discriminating tastes.

    Some of you read my comments on the whole “All (or most) Asians cheat!” type of hysteria here. I noted during those exchanges that I taught at a big football college and that *every* darn year, I caught cheaters, the vast majority of who were athletes.

    A lot of these athletes are practically untouchable at some of these universities. They certainly were at this particular university where I taught. It was frustrating to say the least to be pressured by the university to 1) not fail them for cheating and 2) pass them with high grades. It contributed very strongly to my decision to leave academia and never look back.

    Now, I have been an athlete all my life. My wife was a phenomenal college athlete (she and I come from a long line of very athletic people). But the culture of athlete-scholar has been destroyed on most campuses. A lot of these semi-professional athletes in colleges are functional illiterates who get away with very bad behaviors because the universities protect them.

    Whether they make money or not, certain sports programs have become sacrosanct and their participants have become above the law. That’s what needs to change. Universities have to choose safety of their students and scholarship over certain highly favored sports programs. Once that decision is made, the presence of moronic goons who can tackle well will be highly diminished.

  71. @Danindc
    Vandy now offering Geisha studies with a minor in Afro American anatomy.

    Replies: @Blobby5, @Clyde

    Hah! So funny.

  72. Football program funded. Engineering? That was not a priority.
    “Americans should be worried.” http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/07/14/pentagons-big-budget-f-35-fighter-cant-turn-cant-climb-cant-run/
    The submarine program is real good, so worry a little less. We can still sink and hide.

    • Replies: @AnAnon
    @rustbeltreader

    All the engineering in the world can't fix design by committee.

    , @Major Problem
    @rustbeltreader

    Eh.
    When the F-18 was in development it was disparaged by the fighter mafia as a sure loser, being described as "one pilot, one bomb, one hour," referring to crew, payload and endurance. The big thing then was that you needed a large aircraft with a two-man crew (F-14, F-4) to survive in the modern air-combat environment. The concern was that a single pilot would spend so much time with his head inside the cockpit monitoring systems that he wouldn't be able to fly properly. A weapons officer was a must.
    Turns out they were wrong.
    And, interestingly enough, when the F-4 was being introduced, the critics howled that it was going to be a dud because it had a two-man crew. A true fighter would be like the single-seat F-8. Same complaints against the F-14.
    Turns out they were wrong.
    And I say this having a grandfather, a father and a sibling who were or are naval aviators. A real aviator takes whatever piece of junk Uncle Sam provides and not only makes it talk, but makes it sing like a coloratura soprano.

  73. My understanding of the college football thing was that it was an elite sport back in the 30s (the Harvard-Yale game was a big deal nationally) that Southern schools picked up to raise their status…once Southern schools got into the lead, it lost its status and became a Southern/Midwestern thing. Today no prestigious college is proud of its football team (OK, maybe Stanford; even Duke is prouder of its basketball team).

    I had a friend who went to Columbia, where athletics were mocked and the athletes were despised for having been let in with lower grades (they actually felt more oppressed than gays and minorities according to some campus survey). They still got nice banking/trading jobs when they got out though–businesses like those energetic team players.

    But I’m from the Northeast.

    • Replies: @Bill P
    @SFG


    I had a friend who went to Columbia, where athletics were mocked and the athletes were despised for having been let in with lower grades (they actually felt more oppressed than gays and minorities according to some campus survey).
     
    Columbia tried to recruit me to their crew team, but I was already sick of crew (world's most boring/pointless team sport -- what's so great about being a galley slave?). Guess I dodged a bullet. I probably would have ended up with a Jewish wife, and then what would my holidays be like today? Yep. Bullet dodged.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Anonymous
    @SFG

    Columbia is a lightweight crew and fencing powerhouse. Those athletes aren't mocked but are well respected.

    The football team has been traditionally mocked because it's been so bad, and because the football stadium was built way uptown far from the Columbia campus which killed easy access to the games. They were going to build a football stadium by the campus on the Upper West Side, but the plan got killed by Harlem minority protestors.

  74. @Trayvon Zimmerman
    Off Topic, but right up Steve's alley:

    What's going on with Patton Oswalt? Last year he caught flak for tweeting an iSteve article about PC being a war on noticing. Then it came out that he's been friends for some time with Jim Goad, the hilarious writer for Taki, who's pretty much openly racist, homophobic, and anti-semitic. Now Buzzfeed has what appears to be a fairly recent picture of Oswalt hanging out with not just Goad, but also Nick Bougas. Bougas is much better known as A. Wyatt Mann, the cartoonist who drew sometimes hilarious but always shockingly offensive cartoons about Jews, blacks, and Mexicans for White Aryan Resistance, Tom Metzger's old newspaper.

    Oswalt has always been pretty left-wing politically, but it's always been sort of clear from his rants about the tastes and intelligence of KFC customers that he doesn't think much of low IQ blacks, which pretty much everyone knows is KFC's main base. But he seems to be really pushing the envelope hanging out with Jim Goad and A. Wyatt Mann. But this article has been out for a few days and I haven't noticed it getting much traction. It's hard to believe Larry the Cable Guy could hang out with Goad and Bougas and not catch hell.

    And notice how the writer tries to spin Bougas's cartoons as possibly "ironic", saying that Bougas may have drawn them to ridicule racists. They appeared in Tom Metzger's paper, for crying out loud. They were apparently commissioned by Metzger. The idea that these cartoons were"ironic" is ludicrous.

    It's all very odd.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/the-surprisingly-mainstream-history-of-the-internets-favorit#.td8pKv36lA

    (The picture of Oswald, Goad, and Bougas is at the end of the article.)

    Replies: @SFG, @Danindc

    A shock comedian might not believe in political correctness, even if he thinks income inequality is too high and global warming is real. Also, plenty of PUAs have every reason to support abortion and contraception–less chance of getting stuck with child support bills.

    Heck, I actually lean left a lot of the time (I think businessmen have too much money and power and global warming is real) but this sensitivity crap drives me crazy. We have a First Amendment, not a ‘safe space’ for every group with a few million dollars to spend on a grievance lobby and a sympathetic ear from the liberal media.

    There was also a certain convergence between Satanists and Nazis, as I recall–you don’t think people who are fascinated by evil are going to be interested in the prime exemplars of it, at least according to the modern-day media?

    • Replies: @Trayvon Zimmerman
    @SFG

    Oswalt has never been remotely close to being a shock comedian. And he has always ridiculed "rednecks" and "racists", IIRC. I've never paid much attention, though, because, like almost all comedians working today, he simply isn't funny. Comedians used to write and tell jokes. Now they just get up on stage and talk, relying on a combination of tone of voice, facial expressions, and observations which are just slightly less banal than the average person might make, for their alleged humor.

    Bougas apparently is a Satanist, judging by some other pics on that page. Which is apparently just fine, but racism is beyond the pale.

    Again, it's all very odd. Patton Oswalt's name is never actually mentioned, and the pic is buried at the end of a very long article. It's as if the author feels morally compelled to mention that a favorite comedian of SWPLs and SJWs is pretty obviously no longer singing from the same hymnal, and in fact has gone over to the dark side, but feels guilty and so buries that part of it. Then he makes a fool of himself by claiming that Bougas might've been actually mocking racists by spending a decade or so drawing cartoons that would make Julius Streicher proud for a newspaper called White Aryan Resistance. And so, maybe, just maybe, Oswalt isn't pals with Goad and A. Wyatt Mann because he shares their views and admires them, but just because he loves being contrarian. See, he seems to be saying, Oswalt actually despises racism, anti-semitism, and homophobia, but he also hates PC, and so he hangs out with some of the most notorious racists and homophobes and anti-semites to demonstrate his fearless independence or something.

    But I'll stick with Occam's Razor.

  75. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Steve wants to portray hookups between black athletes and white girls on campus as the product of rape and predatory behavior encouraged or directed even by university admins but this is an emotionally bent out of shape reaction.

    It shows resentment over the fact that there are a lot of white girls who love black athletes. And a lot of white male students and fathers of white female students are big supporters of the players so go along with it without much of a stir.

    The white girls who are turbocharged into black guys tend to be athletes themselves.

  76. In the days before all girls were having sex by 19 years old, the unaccustomed sexual activity of honeymoon couples resulted in ‘ Honeymoon rhinitis’. Yup, it has erectile tissue.

    Laurence Singleton had about the broadest nose I have ever seen on a white man

  77. @FWIW
    @Lot

    Of the 120 athletic departments in Division I-A (sorry, the Football Bowl Subdivision) just 22 were self-sufficient last year.

    That's actually actually an improvement from 2009, when only 14 schools turned a "profit."

    Meanwhile, the median loss for the remaining 98 program is $11.3 million. That difference must be made up by the institution they belong to.

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ncaa-revenue-expense-report-2011-6#ixzz3S5Citzz2

    This is old, but the principle still holds.

    A school like Vandy has zero chance of ever making a buck. There is always a dream of turing it around -- have one great year and then become one of the 'haves' .. but those days are over.

    Even if you get someone like T Boone Pickens, who spent almost $200 million on Oklahoma State, its almost impossible. Why do the rest of the schools pay big money to be the whipping boys for the money making schools? I have no idea. No way around the average school having a 6-6 record .. and for every big winning school, there is its complement. Not much school spirit around 3-9 records.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @GW

    Not only are football programs extremely expensive for the money losers, but thanks to the stupidity of (the questionably interpreted) Title IX, having one means eliminating a lot of other men’s sports – mostly the ones that draw a higher quality of student.

  78. “Both players were suspended from the team in November after a 19-year-old female Tennessee student alleged to police Johnson and Williams raped her in an off-campus apartment.”

    Going with them into an apartment was her first mistake, and, under slightly worse circumstances, could have been her last.

    Newsflash to young white women: if you really want to prove your interracial bona fides, don’t go with a black guy or guys some place out of public view, especially not an apartment. Their “fame” does not make you safe. Numbers do not make you safe. You may think “there’s six of them, so no one will rape me,” because there’s a decent chance they will ALL rape you. Gang rape is one of those bizarre crimes that blacks seem relatively comfortable committing and whites seldom do. Your average white rapist probably isn’t terribly turned on by the thoughts of sloppy seconds (or fifths) with a girl he’s raping, but black rapists seem to have no problem with it.

    So if you really feel the need to go out once or twice with a black guy, for pete’s sake, at least make sure it’s in a well-populated place where there will be lots of white people.

  79. @Trayvon Zimmerman
    Off Topic, but right up Steve's alley:

    What's going on with Patton Oswalt? Last year he caught flak for tweeting an iSteve article about PC being a war on noticing. Then it came out that he's been friends for some time with Jim Goad, the hilarious writer for Taki, who's pretty much openly racist, homophobic, and anti-semitic. Now Buzzfeed has what appears to be a fairly recent picture of Oswalt hanging out with not just Goad, but also Nick Bougas. Bougas is much better known as A. Wyatt Mann, the cartoonist who drew sometimes hilarious but always shockingly offensive cartoons about Jews, blacks, and Mexicans for White Aryan Resistance, Tom Metzger's old newspaper.

    Oswalt has always been pretty left-wing politically, but it's always been sort of clear from his rants about the tastes and intelligence of KFC customers that he doesn't think much of low IQ blacks, which pretty much everyone knows is KFC's main base. But he seems to be really pushing the envelope hanging out with Jim Goad and A. Wyatt Mann. But this article has been out for a few days and I haven't noticed it getting much traction. It's hard to believe Larry the Cable Guy could hang out with Goad and Bougas and not catch hell.

    And notice how the writer tries to spin Bougas's cartoons as possibly "ironic", saying that Bougas may have drawn them to ridicule racists. They appeared in Tom Metzger's paper, for crying out loud. They were apparently commissioned by Metzger. The idea that these cartoons were"ironic" is ludicrous.

    It's all very odd.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/the-surprisingly-mainstream-history-of-the-internets-favorit#.td8pKv36lA

    (The picture of Oswald, Goad, and Bougas is at the end of the article.)

    Replies: @SFG, @Danindc

    Interesting. I think he’s trying to cover this up with his blatantly left wing Twitter feed. He’s gone round the bend. Still took some guts to quote Steve…

  80. @whorefinder
    We're forgetting a major driver of college football and basketball: gambling. Which is run by organized crime, who also run prostitution. The link seems to be the major factor here.

    Many of these college organizations recruiting heavily for Alma Mater are gambling fronts/operations, with underworld figures involved, uniting with boosters to try to improve the odds of X or Y school winning next year or covering a point spread. Bookies love an overdog v. underdog matchup, because so many people will root on (and gamble on) an underdog winning or busting a spread; I know Patton said "America loves a winner" but really "America loves an underdog who BECOMES a winner, and then immediately starts rooting for someone to beat the new winner." And getting some alumni excited about a team's new recruits will also make them bet heavily on Alma Mater in games the following season.

    In pro sports, you can see this starkly in the way Americans viewed the Patriots in 2000-01 (plucky underdogs, no-name quarterback, sin-oftheir-teeth wins against heavily favored opponents) versus the patriots of 2014-15 (stupid perfect team, BradyHate, etc.). Underdog status=beloved; overdog status=hated.

    But I digress a bit.

    College sports are a goldmine for organized crime, since the level of competition is almost as high as the pros, they get national games and exposure, AND the players aren't paid, so the money from the bookies goes further when they want points shaved/a game thrown. Bookies can thus control the outcomes in these sports better than the pros; thus, a higher profit for bookies.

    Since underworlders are running these recruitment programs, I think what's going on is that the women involved are young prostitutes whom the gamblers either get to enroll in the school (so they can plausibly be students) or else are just given school credentials for these organizations but don't actually attend. They bring in girls from an underworld-run brothel and pretend they just are really into football.

    I can believe that a certain percentage (maybe 20%) are sincere jock sniffers for their school, but I think the vast majority are being paid by the hour/ordered to do so by the Russian mafia. Then again, given the deplorable nature of women, I'm quite open to the idea that I am wrong and that all these women are freshman coeds who are whores at heart. But the money/gambling/organized crime factor seems all too likely a prime mover here.

    Replies: @Danindc

    Interesting theory about the Russian mob. Completely wrong but interesting.

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    @Danindc

    you don't think gambling interests have a keen financial stake in college sports?

  81. Hostess or Ho’s Ass?

  82. @SFG
    @Trayvon Zimmerman

    A shock comedian might not believe in political correctness, even if he thinks income inequality is too high and global warming is real. Also, plenty of PUAs have every reason to support abortion and contraception--less chance of getting stuck with child support bills.

    Heck, I actually lean left a lot of the time (I think businessmen have too much money and power and global warming is real) but this sensitivity crap drives me crazy. We have a First Amendment, not a 'safe space' for every group with a few million dollars to spend on a grievance lobby and a sympathetic ear from the liberal media.

    There was also a certain convergence between Satanists and Nazis, as I recall--you don't think people who are fascinated by evil are going to be interested in the prime exemplars of it, at least according to the modern-day media?

    Replies: @Trayvon Zimmerman

    Oswalt has never been remotely close to being a shock comedian. And he has always ridiculed “rednecks” and “racists”, IIRC. I’ve never paid much attention, though, because, like almost all comedians working today, he simply isn’t funny. Comedians used to write and tell jokes. Now they just get up on stage and talk, relying on a combination of tone of voice, facial expressions, and observations which are just slightly less banal than the average person might make, for their alleged humor.

    Bougas apparently is a Satanist, judging by some other pics on that page. Which is apparently just fine, but racism is beyond the pale.

    Again, it’s all very odd. Patton Oswalt’s name is never actually mentioned, and the pic is buried at the end of a very long article. It’s as if the author feels morally compelled to mention that a favorite comedian of SWPLs and SJWs is pretty obviously no longer singing from the same hymnal, and in fact has gone over to the dark side, but feels guilty and so buries that part of it. Then he makes a fool of himself by claiming that Bougas might’ve been actually mocking racists by spending a decade or so drawing cartoons that would make Julius Streicher proud for a newspaper called White Aryan Resistance. And so, maybe, just maybe, Oswalt isn’t pals with Goad and A. Wyatt Mann because he shares their views and admires them, but just because he loves being contrarian. See, he seems to be saying, Oswalt actually despises racism, anti-semitism, and homophobia, but he also hates PC, and so he hangs out with some of the most notorious racists and homophobes and anti-semites to demonstrate his fearless independence or something.

    But I’ll stick with Occam’s Razor.

  83. That negro looks like the ‘Predator’.

  84. @Danindc
    Vandy now offering Geisha studies with a minor in Afro American anatomy.

    Replies: @Blobby5, @Clyde

    Vandy now offering Geisha studies with a minor in Afro American anatomy.

    hahhah

  85. Assuming this isn’t a rhetorical question, I think I can answer the whole issue of how colleges manage to bring in thugs. I went to a big name football college, and grew up in the culture of big name college football.

    The college football team is THE culture for college football (and basketball) fans (either locals, or regional fans, depending on the State and presence of professional teams). For bills-paying Republican fathers, that allegiance was formed in the 60’s/70’s, when college football was still reasonably white, and football players, while not perfect, were just a bit more civilized (and, to be honest, college football player crimes were more covered up), and when they themselves went to that college. Their perspective of college football is still in the Keith Jackson era. Thus, they get to be fans of the local team just like they were when they were 18, get to proclaim their non-racist bonafides (they are fans of all college players, black and white-see how tolerant they are?), and get to enjoy the modern equivalent of the county fair 6 times a year.

    For their kids, they have grown up in a ‘post-racial era’ in which expectation of anything different doesn’t even exist. Racial peace requires the acceptance of a certain level of thuggishness by the football team (often, black and white players-steroids don’t discriminate). It is as normal as a library on campus. To suggest that one’s environment shouldn’t include this type of element wouldn’t even enter their minds. I personally suspect that the homogenization of high school culture (virtually every high school in the country is effectively a football factory-the equivalent of Miami or Oklahoma*), has masked even the possibility of alternatives: high schools idolize athletes, colleges idolize athletes, adults idolize professional athletes, the media idolizes athletes. Its simply the way things are from adolescence to death.

    So there is no pushback to letting thugs on campus. It is interesting: in the old days, if athletes commited crimes, it was covered up. Today, it is not, and the athletes are generally charged and investigated. But it seems to have no impact on the appeal/power of the athletic programs anyway.

    joeyjoejoe

    *and this is relatively new. If you imagine your own family: I bet you went to high school in a football factory, I bet your parents went to high school in football factories. But I’d guess your grandparents didn’t-they may have had football, or not-may have been in a small rural schoolhouse, or an urban school with no/little football culture. This homogenization is really about two generations old.

    • Replies: @David In TN
    @joeyjoejoe

    If you assume "college football player crimes were more covered up" in the old days, this was because they were much rarer.

  86. @David In TN
    @Gender Inflation

    I recall a magazine article about Peyton Manning when he was at Tennessee. It said that Peyton went out of his way to mix with regular students and implied this made him rare among the football players.

    By the way, when Peyton Manning's maternal grandfather found out his daughter was dating Ole Miss QB Archie Manning circa 1968, he was delighted and said "Bring him by so I can approve of him."

    The old-line SEC fans overlook the criminality of the players and pretend things are still what they were 50 years ago.

    Replies: @yaqub the mad scientist

    My father said that Archie was the same way at Ole Miss.

  87. @Danindc
    Old Penitentiary Face...LOL. Wasn't that Jeffrey Leonard of the SF Giants?

    Thanks for that laugh because the rest is fn depressing. The thick dreads really do complete the look. What ( cough white) girl goes home with that guy? Don't answer that. She probably saw too many State Farm commercials, or Budweiser or McDonalds. Or maybe he wooed her with some spoken word poetry.....kill my landlord....CILL

    Franklin has taken his act to Penn State - probably not the best hire for a school rehabbing its rape image. He's sleazy but caught the Obama train to a head coaching job at Vandy. He's so articulate...

    Great question re Republican fathers. I think it's incumbent on you to start an advice column. One day a week you take questions like- "hey Steve, my little girl is heading off to State U - how do I protect her from the starting secondary without coming off as a racist? She's s HUGE football fan just like her daddy."

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @anonymous-antiskynetist

    I call them “Predator Dreads”, after the Schwarzenegger film.

  88. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:

    Steve, you might be interested in this:

    Trading the Megaphone for the Gavel in Title IX Enforcement

    FACILITATING BIAS AGAINST AND DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT ON SEXUALLY STIGMATIZED MINORITIES

    From Emmett Till to the Central Park Five, American racial history is laced with vendetta-like scandals in which black men are accused of sexually assaulting white women that become reverse scandals when it is revealed that the accused men were not wrongdoers at all. No reader of To Kill a Mockingbird should be able to forget how this American classic convinces its readers that some of these accusations will be based on racially exploitative evasions of responsibility by white women who willingly had sex with black men and then disavowed it as rape.

    It seems that you are guilty of all the prejudices of those southern white racists! Haven’t you read To KKKill a Mockingbird?

    But more importantly, isn’t this a text-book illustration of the hierarchies of victim-hood? When two different victim classes are pitted against each other, out comes the victim-blaming rhetoric:

    But nothing so malign need be at work when black men show up in the dock: morning-after remorse can make sex that seemed like a good idea at the time look really alarming in retrospect;

    What? I thought women never lied about rape!

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @The most deplorable one

    It's hard to know who to root for when two officially approved victim groups are lying about each other.

    , @ben tillman
    @The most deplorable one


    The old-line SEC fans overlook the criminality of the players and pretend things are still what they were 50 years ago.
     
    And they weren't all that great back then. For some reason, when I had Thanksgiving dinner on Long Island one year, one of the guests was a former UGA player who recounted how he used to raise hell with Fran Tarkenton. They didn't get away with murder, but they got away with a lot of stuff that your typical Georgia cracker wouldn't have.

    Replies: @David In TN

  89. @Anonymous
    "But has any tuition-paying Republican father publicly expressed concerns about university officials trying to persuade his daughter to play geisha to visiting 18-year-old cornerbacks?"

    I wonder what kind of female Vanderbilt students would be involved with this? IIRC, when I was in college my impression was that the girls who were into the hockey players/team (hockey was a big thing at my school) were not the most attractive, elegant girls, but they were fairly attractive, outgoing (maybe a little on the loud side), and generally good-natured girls.

    I guess I don't understand the appeal of football players, except for maybe quarterbacks. Most seem too big and too unrefined.

    Replies: @Bastion

    “were not the most attractive,”

    We’re willing to trade looks for certain… morally casual attitude.

  90. Outside of mutual/hedge fund managing, being inherited dictator of N. Korea, is there a scummier occupation than head coach of basketball / football at a large university?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Hacienda

    I'm not a big fan of college football or basketball, but if you're a guy who's always loved football or basketball, I would think being the head basketball or football coach at a university would be a pretty sweet gig and kind of fun.

  91. @Clyde
    Turn your daughter into a competent soccer player and she can score a Title IX soccer scholarship at Vanderbilt. This way daddy will be paying lots less to have his girl escorting 6ft6 DeAndre around campus.

    Replies: @Renault

    Or better yet, crew. She won’t even need to be competent, just willing to sign up.

    Women’s crew has 2o full scholarships per team.

    • Replies: @Clyde
    @Renault


    Women’s crew has 2o full scholarships per team.
     
    More chance of your daughter being molested by lesbians on crew. More than on soccer I would think//// Those 20 are Title IX scholarships for crew? "I am woman hear me row!"

    Replies: @Bill P, @jack

  92. @FWIW
    @Lot

    Of the 120 athletic departments in Division I-A (sorry, the Football Bowl Subdivision) just 22 were self-sufficient last year.

    That's actually actually an improvement from 2009, when only 14 schools turned a "profit."

    Meanwhile, the median loss for the remaining 98 program is $11.3 million. That difference must be made up by the institution they belong to.

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ncaa-revenue-expense-report-2011-6#ixzz3S5Citzz2

    This is old, but the principle still holds.

    A school like Vandy has zero chance of ever making a buck. There is always a dream of turing it around -- have one great year and then become one of the 'haves' .. but those days are over.

    Even if you get someone like T Boone Pickens, who spent almost $200 million on Oklahoma State, its almost impossible. Why do the rest of the schools pay big money to be the whipping boys for the money making schools? I have no idea. No way around the average school having a 6-6 record .. and for every big winning school, there is its complement. Not much school spirit around 3-9 records.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @GW

    Athletic departments aren’t concerned with profit because they don’t have shareholders which demand a return on investment. What they do have are alumni who demand some level of athletic success for their football and basketball teams. People take pride in organizations they’re tied to–and the most visible thing associated with large public universities is the football team (some schools value basketball). T. Boone Pickens was tired of losing Bedlam every year. Following recent upgrades to the stadium, football facilities, and coaching staff; the Cowboys have had some success both nationally (won the Fiesta Bowl in 2011 season) and against the rival Sooners (2-2 last four years, lost previous 8 in a row).

    A better metric is revenue. Revenue is what allows you to hire the best coaches, upgrade the football facilities which draw the best recruits, get the best training and nutrition programs, and other things which contribute to winning on the field or court.

  93. @SFG
    My understanding of the college football thing was that it was an elite sport back in the 30s (the Harvard-Yale game was a big deal nationally) that Southern schools picked up to raise their status...once Southern schools got into the lead, it lost its status and became a Southern/Midwestern thing. Today no prestigious college is proud of its football team (OK, maybe Stanford; even Duke is prouder of its basketball team).

    I had a friend who went to Columbia, where athletics were mocked and the athletes were despised for having been let in with lower grades (they actually felt more oppressed than gays and minorities according to some campus survey). They still got nice banking/trading jobs when they got out though--businesses like those energetic team players.

    But I'm from the Northeast.

    Replies: @Bill P, @Anonymous

    I had a friend who went to Columbia, where athletics were mocked and the athletes were despised for having been let in with lower grades (they actually felt more oppressed than gays and minorities according to some campus survey).

    Columbia tried to recruit me to their crew team, but I was already sick of crew (world’s most boring/pointless team sport — what’s so great about being a galley slave?). Guess I dodged a bullet. I probably would have ended up with a Jewish wife, and then what would my holidays be like today? Yep. Bullet dodged.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Bill P

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TONqZBwSXW8

  94. These articles detail the strongest case for the Culture of Rape argument. Yet it goes unmentioned.

    Meanwhile. . . .

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/nyregion/yale-restricts-a-fraternity-after-sexual-misconduct.html?_r=0

    “But has any tuition-paying Republican father publicly expressed concerns about university officials trying to persuade his daughter to play geisha to visiting 18-year-old cornerbacks?”

    That’s an odd, perhaps unintentional, punt. Colleges aren’t and shouldn’t be subject to Strict Liability for sexual assaults. But both the institutions and the individuals, whether college employees or not, should be held criminally and civilly liable. The onus should not be placed on fathers, Republican or otherwise.

    Those commenters here who seemingly lament the inevitable lawsuits miss that these practices will only cease when the big business of college sports is hit in the wallet. Indeed, it is apparent that at this point criminal prosecutions of college administrators is needed as well.

    • Replies: @Renault
    @MLK

    I don't understood why Ivy frats/clubs haven't just done what Harvard's final clubs did: completely sever all connections with the university.

  95. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @SFG
    My understanding of the college football thing was that it was an elite sport back in the 30s (the Harvard-Yale game was a big deal nationally) that Southern schools picked up to raise their status...once Southern schools got into the lead, it lost its status and became a Southern/Midwestern thing. Today no prestigious college is proud of its football team (OK, maybe Stanford; even Duke is prouder of its basketball team).

    I had a friend who went to Columbia, where athletics were mocked and the athletes were despised for having been let in with lower grades (they actually felt more oppressed than gays and minorities according to some campus survey). They still got nice banking/trading jobs when they got out though--businesses like those energetic team players.

    But I'm from the Northeast.

    Replies: @Bill P, @Anonymous

    Columbia is a lightweight crew and fencing powerhouse. Those athletes aren’t mocked but are well respected.

    The football team has been traditionally mocked because it’s been so bad, and because the football stadium was built way uptown far from the Columbia campus which killed easy access to the games. They were going to build a football stadium by the campus on the Upper West Side, but the plan got killed by Harlem minority protestors.

  96. @joeyjoejoe
    Assuming this isn't a rhetorical question, I think I can answer the whole issue of how colleges manage to bring in thugs. I went to a big name football college, and grew up in the culture of big name college football.

    The college football team is THE culture for college football (and basketball) fans (either locals, or regional fans, depending on the State and presence of professional teams). For bills-paying Republican fathers, that allegiance was formed in the 60's/70's, when college football was still reasonably white, and football players, while not perfect, were just a bit more civilized (and, to be honest, college football player crimes were more covered up), and when they themselves went to that college. Their perspective of college football is still in the Keith Jackson era. Thus, they get to be fans of the local team just like they were when they were 18, get to proclaim their non-racist bonafides (they are fans of all college players, black and white-see how tolerant they are?), and get to enjoy the modern equivalent of the county fair 6 times a year.

    For their kids, they have grown up in a 'post-racial era' in which expectation of anything different doesn't even exist. Racial peace requires the acceptance of a certain level of thuggishness by the football team (often, black and white players-steroids don't discriminate). It is as normal as a library on campus. To suggest that one's environment shouldn't include this type of element wouldn't even enter their minds. I personally suspect that the homogenization of high school culture (virtually every high school in the country is effectively a football factory-the equivalent of Miami or Oklahoma*), has masked even the possibility of alternatives: high schools idolize athletes, colleges idolize athletes, adults idolize professional athletes, the media idolizes athletes. Its simply the way things are from adolescence to death.

    So there is no pushback to letting thugs on campus. It is interesting: in the old days, if athletes commited crimes, it was covered up. Today, it is not, and the athletes are generally charged and investigated. But it seems to have no impact on the appeal/power of the athletic programs anyway.

    joeyjoejoe

    *and this is relatively new. If you imagine your own family: I bet you went to high school in a football factory, I bet your parents went to high school in football factories. But I'd guess your grandparents didn't-they may have had football, or not-may have been in a small rural schoolhouse, or an urban school with no/little football culture. This homogenization is really about two generations old.

    Replies: @David In TN

    If you assume “college football player crimes were more covered up” in the old days, this was because they were much rarer.

  97. @Danindc
    @whorefinder

    Interesting theory about the Russian mob. Completely wrong but interesting.

    Replies: @whorefinder

    you don’t think gambling interests have a keen financial stake in college sports?

  98. @JSM
    @MC


    I wonder if the better sort of schools will start to ditch major sports in favor of actual student athletics. I’m a huge college football fan, and therefore conflicted about this.
     
    Hi, MC. I am curious about your being conflicted. I ask sincerely, because I just don't "get" the appeal of football, at all, but particularly, what is it about *college* football that makes you crave it so much?

    Because, you see, I've never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.

    Certainly, I can see why a college might sponsor intramural sports just as a way for their true scholars to have some fun and activity for their physical health and relaxation, but why should institutions whose raison d'etre is the life of the mind serve as a free (taxpayer-financed) training center for fantastically rich professional football team owners?

    It seems to me that, like baseball with its farm teams that the major league itself funds and recruits from, NFL should have to recruit, teach and pay its own dam*ed rookies, nowhere near the college campuses.

    Replies: @Realist, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Anonymous, @Lagertha, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Twinkie, @MC

    “Because, you see, I’ve never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.”

    That ship sailed decades ago. But most STEM majors don’t give a crap about sports.

  99. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    He does have a point.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Hah! You’re probably right! But he should perhaps be a bit more subtle about his hiring criteria. Or, maybe not. : )

  100. Don’t let your daughter become a numerator in the Cromartie Index

  101. @JSM
    @MC


    I wonder if the better sort of schools will start to ditch major sports in favor of actual student athletics. I’m a huge college football fan, and therefore conflicted about this.
     
    Hi, MC. I am curious about your being conflicted. I ask sincerely, because I just don't "get" the appeal of football, at all, but particularly, what is it about *college* football that makes you crave it so much?

    Because, you see, I've never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.

    Certainly, I can see why a college might sponsor intramural sports just as a way for their true scholars to have some fun and activity for their physical health and relaxation, but why should institutions whose raison d'etre is the life of the mind serve as a free (taxpayer-financed) training center for fantastically rich professional football team owners?

    It seems to me that, like baseball with its farm teams that the major league itself funds and recruits from, NFL should have to recruit, teach and pay its own dam*ed rookies, nowhere near the college campuses.

    Replies: @Realist, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Anonymous, @Lagertha, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Twinkie, @MC

    Yea, I have to say that I’m with you on this one. I get many universities benefit from the exposure and solidarity (and, presumably, more alumni donations in the future) that college sports brings. However, from a fan perspective, I just don’t get it.

    What possible connection do the vast majority of players have with the students? They don’t belong there academically. They’re typically from poor neighborhoods. They’re typically black, compared to a heavily white and Asian student body. For state schools, they’re typically from another state. They typically major in subjects that few students study (African-American studies, etc.).

    For the vast majority of players, they’re only connection to the students is the name on their helmet.

    And, yet, college kids and alumni (as well as the general population for state schools – Nebraska games have a fair chunk of the state’s total population at games) come out and watch in droves. I find it all very bizarre.

    Btw, I think that sports are wonderful and agree completely that playing a sport can teach you many very good life lessons – except golf, which only causes pain. I’ll admit that I’ve never been a huge fan of watching sports, but I still get together here and there with friends and neighbors to watch professional sports. But hypocrisy and dishonesty of “college” sports is too much for me.

    Not surprisingly, Eric Cartman had it right regarding college sports:

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xiy2ry_south-park-compares-student-athletes-to-slaves_news

  102. Here is national champion quarterback Cardale Jones’s opinion on athletes and higher education, once expressed via Twitter:

    Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL, we ain’t come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS

  103. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @JSM
    @MC


    I wonder if the better sort of schools will start to ditch major sports in favor of actual student athletics. I’m a huge college football fan, and therefore conflicted about this.
     
    Hi, MC. I am curious about your being conflicted. I ask sincerely, because I just don't "get" the appeal of football, at all, but particularly, what is it about *college* football that makes you crave it so much?

    Because, you see, I've never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.

    Certainly, I can see why a college might sponsor intramural sports just as a way for their true scholars to have some fun and activity for their physical health and relaxation, but why should institutions whose raison d'etre is the life of the mind serve as a free (taxpayer-financed) training center for fantastically rich professional football team owners?

    It seems to me that, like baseball with its farm teams that the major league itself funds and recruits from, NFL should have to recruit, teach and pay its own dam*ed rookies, nowhere near the college campuses.

    Replies: @Realist, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Anonymous, @Lagertha, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Twinkie, @MC

    “Because, you see, I’ve never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.

    “Certainly, I can see why a college might sponsor intramural sports just as a way for their true scholars to have some fun and activity for their physical health and relaxation, but why should institutions whose raison d’etre is the life of the mind serve as a free (taxpayer-financed) training center for fantastically rich professional football team owners?”

    College football probably started off as essentially a way for true scholars (okay, maybe not true scholars, but reasonably typical students) to have some fun and engage in some friendly competition. Unfortunately, it’s devolved into the generally unwholesome freak show we have today.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Anonymous

    It's associated with college because to maintain the essentially collectivist/fascist structure of the professional game a highly structured feeder system that can be centrally controlled is necessary .

    How long would the NFL last if players going professional decided on who they wanted to play for, on the basis of location, remuneration and perceived prospects and if any bunch of amateur pub players could put together a team and in ten years time have the prospect, however faint, of playing in the highest league regardless of the wishes of the owners of other clubs?

  104. @JSM
    @MC


    I wonder if the better sort of schools will start to ditch major sports in favor of actual student athletics. I’m a huge college football fan, and therefore conflicted about this.
     
    Hi, MC. I am curious about your being conflicted. I ask sincerely, because I just don't "get" the appeal of football, at all, but particularly, what is it about *college* football that makes you crave it so much?

    Because, you see, I've never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.

    Certainly, I can see why a college might sponsor intramural sports just as a way for their true scholars to have some fun and activity for their physical health and relaxation, but why should institutions whose raison d'etre is the life of the mind serve as a free (taxpayer-financed) training center for fantastically rich professional football team owners?

    It seems to me that, like baseball with its farm teams that the major league itself funds and recruits from, NFL should have to recruit, teach and pay its own dam*ed rookies, nowhere near the college campuses.

    Replies: @Realist, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Anonymous, @Lagertha, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Twinkie, @MC

    weirdly, I know a lot about, “…training center for…for professional football…” and this subject matter of college ball.

    Decades ago college football became the “training center for the NFL,” because no other system (like the farm teams/baseball you mentioned) existed for High School players. And, this simply has continued. Of course, as many here believe, many players in college are not there to study….although I have met several players that were excellent students (RG3 & Luck, Singletary, many not so famous).

    There are also universities with Div 1 football programs that are better at shaping and guiding young players (corralling them in and limiting their free time on campus) than others…don’t want to pick examples since I’m trying to make a different point. There are also universities that have a tremendous, stupefying set-up with tutors and remedial programs/math centers/writing workshops (all separate from the main campus/students) for the athletes to retain a GPA so the university can hope that the players are still “student-athletes.”

    However, I have met many former Div 1 players who have admitted to me that college ball “saved them” or changed their life’s trajectory. At one memorable championship dinner (reunion dinner) a moving speech by a particularly banged-up former champion, stated that not one of their teammates was dead, in jail or homeless….and he mentioned some of the millionaires as well out of a group of 90 or so guys. A gratitude/love to the coaches was expressed in a way I had never witnessed before. A lot of wives were teary.

    The main reason for the HS-College-NFL pipeline: HS senior/freshmen college player’s body is not mature enough – males are at their peak at 23. They go through an unbelievable process of growth, conditioning and weight gain during those 4 years in college after which they have that VERY small chance to get into the NFL draft. So, they are in the college football program for their body to be the size it needs to be to withstand the intensity of NFL level playing – and, be at least a little bit more enlightened.

    And, yes, many players have never been away from home (like many undergrads,) flown on an airplane, even had proper nutrition as children/teenagers. Of course, many of the tactics of the game are much more complicated than HS, so there is a lot of learning about the strategy of the game…a lot of sitting and listening to offensive/defensive coaches (the corralling and keeping them busy most of the day,) a lot of film viewing.

    Soccer, a sport I know a lot about (played in college) has it’s “soccer academies,” Olympic Development Programs, and premier teams for teenagers – all developed since the late 80’s or so). Most HS boys play not just on their school team, but year ’round on a premier/academy/ODP team. If you are really good (goes for tennis, too) you pretty much have to move to Florida to attend the primary soccer academy/boarding school that is a feeder to the MLS.

    I paid big bucks for one of my sons and his soccer playing; I was happy to do it; it was a thrilling time – he still plays and has been lucky to work on the production of the World Cup and such events.

    Now Klinsmann would like to disband all these soccer programs (won’t happen) because it does cut-off potentially many players whose families simply can’t afford the programs, the team expenses, the camps, the academies. There is a certain level of elitism in soccer since so many programs for teenagers costs A LOT – Europe does a better job. However, I don’t see American kids ever playing soccer for fun in a park (Texas being an exception) like they do all over the world, so where are they going to get the skills? Soccer is relatively cheap…it has always been the “poor man’s sport” since you don’t need a lot of expensive equipment, but to become exceptionally skilled, you are stuck paying a lot for it in the USA. Many youth sport programs require a big investment of time and money for parents if that kid (or parent) harbors the fantasy that their kid will get recruited somewhere, get to the next level, whatever it may be. Even skateboarding has become “professionalized” which irks the purists/renegades.

    In football, of course, there is pay-to-play (we paid $350/yr for our 2 sons) every season for any sport in public High Schools. And, yes, it does seem that Universities with football programs spend an awful lot of money for their teams…but many schools have also dropped their programs. I don’t think the Big 12/10/SEC etc., will ever follow that, no matter how controversial the game gets or the behavior of some players inflames the public. And, Ivy Leagues have known (they have the data) for a long time that football games (especially a successful team) opens up those alumni wallets like nothing else. It is bread and circuses.

    I just don’t see that cultural change happening when Americans will give up football; concussions, battery, assault and all. Even biting an opponent (Luis @ WCup) did not get him kicked-out of professional soccer for good – you have to kill someone to get kicked out. The NFL is the epitome of big business (too big to fail)…there’s just too much money in it/too many jobs involved in football for American people to give it up. Now, rugby…well I like that the most! Fencing is a close second!

    • Thanks: JohnnyWalker123
  105. @rustbeltreader
    Football program funded. Engineering? That was not a priority.
    "Americans should be worried." http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/07/14/pentagons-big-budget-f-35-fighter-cant-turn-cant-climb-cant-run/
    The submarine program is real good, so worry a little less. We can still sink and hide.

    Replies: @AnAnon, @Major Problem

    All the engineering in the world can’t fix design by committee.

  106. Steve, don’t you think you should credit Hank Greenwald for the term “PF”? By the way, I hear Jeffrey Leonard is a pretty nice guy.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Marty

    Yes.

  107. @MC
    This gets at the larger question of why a college graduate would feel any affinity with some illiterate thug just because they "attended" the same school. I wonder if the better sort of schools will start to ditch major sports in favor of actual student athletics. I'm a huge college football fan, and therefore conflicted about this.

    Replies: @JSM, @Grumpy, @The Anti-Gnostic, @anon

    You’re part of the problem.

    • Replies: @MC
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    You don't think I know that? Why else would I feel conflicted about it?

  108. @Anonymous
    @grey enlightenment


    any tuition-paying Republican father

    for whatever reason George Will came came to mind when I read that line

     

    For me what comes to mind is some Tahoe-driving, Limbaugh-listening, church-going, successful businessman from an upper-middle class suburb of Atlanta. One of these guys with southern accents I hear calling up Limbaugh ("mega dittos Rush") arguing that our problems are due to high taxes or Obama shredding the Constitution or the 14th Amendment or not having a strong leader like Ronald Reagan (who, btw, gave us modern Islamic extremism).

    I don't think smart kids from rich liberal parents go to Vanderbilt or other schools in the South. They go to Bard or Williams or Bowdoin or Wellesley...

    Replies: @Lot, @yaqub the mad scientist, @shrinker, @Brutusale, @Curle

    Yes, they go to Bard after graduating from Boston Latin, like my friend’s daughter, where she majored in Arabic and did a junior year abroad, where she was introduced to a whole ‘nother brand of sexual predator. It was quite the eye-opener for her Unitarian WASP worldview.

  109. @Marty
    Steve, don't you think you should credit Hank Greenwald for the term "PF"? By the way, I hear Jeffrey Leonard is a pretty nice guy.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Yes.

  110. What sort of farther would send their daughters to these Whorehouses?

  111. @Anonymous
    @JSM

    "Because, you see, I’ve never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.

    "Certainly, I can see why a college might sponsor intramural sports just as a way for their true scholars to have some fun and activity for their physical health and relaxation, but why should institutions whose raison d’etre is the life of the mind serve as a free (taxpayer-financed) training center for fantastically rich professional football team owners?"

    College football probably started off as essentially a way for true scholars (okay, maybe not true scholars, but reasonably typical students) to have some fun and engage in some friendly competition. Unfortunately, it's devolved into the generally unwholesome freak show we have today.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    It’s associated with college because to maintain the essentially collectivist/fascist structure of the professional game a highly structured feeder system that can be centrally controlled is necessary .

    How long would the NFL last if players going professional decided on who they wanted to play for, on the basis of location, remuneration and perceived prospects and if any bunch of amateur pub players could put together a team and in ten years time have the prospect, however faint, of playing in the highest league regardless of the wishes of the owners of other clubs?

  112. @JSM
    @MC


    I wonder if the better sort of schools will start to ditch major sports in favor of actual student athletics. I’m a huge college football fan, and therefore conflicted about this.
     
    Hi, MC. I am curious about your being conflicted. I ask sincerely, because I just don't "get" the appeal of football, at all, but particularly, what is it about *college* football that makes you crave it so much?

    Because, you see, I've never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.

    Certainly, I can see why a college might sponsor intramural sports just as a way for their true scholars to have some fun and activity for their physical health and relaxation, but why should institutions whose raison d'etre is the life of the mind serve as a free (taxpayer-financed) training center for fantastically rich professional football team owners?

    It seems to me that, like baseball with its farm teams that the major league itself funds and recruits from, NFL should have to recruit, teach and pay its own dam*ed rookies, nowhere near the college campuses.

    Replies: @Realist, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Anonymous, @Lagertha, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Twinkie, @MC

    Jock-sniffing is the national pastime. There are people who will have withdrawal symptoms if they don’t inhale the fumes of a sweaty jock-strap.

  113. @Bill P
    @SFG


    I had a friend who went to Columbia, where athletics were mocked and the athletes were despised for having been let in with lower grades (they actually felt more oppressed than gays and minorities according to some campus survey).
     
    Columbia tried to recruit me to their crew team, but I was already sick of crew (world's most boring/pointless team sport -- what's so great about being a galley slave?). Guess I dodged a bullet. I probably would have ended up with a Jewish wife, and then what would my holidays be like today? Yep. Bullet dodged.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  114. @The most deplorable one
    Steve, you might be interested in this:

    Trading the Megaphone for the Gavel in Title IX Enforcement


    FACILITATING BIAS AGAINST AND DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT ON SEXUALLY STIGMATIZED MINORITIES

    From Emmett Till to the Central Park Five, American racial history is laced with vendetta-like scandals in which black men are accused of sexually assaulting white women that become reverse scandals when it is revealed that the accused men were not wrongdoers at all. No reader of To Kill a Mockingbird should be able to forget how this American classic convinces its readers that some of these accusations will be based on racially exploitative evasions of responsibility by white women who willingly had sex with black men and then disavowed it as rape.

     

    It seems that you are guilty of all the prejudices of those southern white racists! Haven't you read To KKKill a Mockingbird?

    But more importantly, isn't this a text-book illustration of the hierarchies of victim-hood? When two different victim classes are pitted against each other, out comes the victim-blaming rhetoric:


    But nothing so malign need be at work when black men show up in the dock: morning-after remorse can make sex that seemed like a good idea at the time look really alarming in retrospect;
     
    What? I thought women never lied about rape!

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @ben tillman

    It’s hard to know who to root for when two officially approved victim groups are lying about each other.

  115. @JSM
    @MC


    I wonder if the better sort of schools will start to ditch major sports in favor of actual student athletics. I’m a huge college football fan, and therefore conflicted about this.
     
    Hi, MC. I am curious about your being conflicted. I ask sincerely, because I just don't "get" the appeal of football, at all, but particularly, what is it about *college* football that makes you crave it so much?

    Because, you see, I've never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.

    Certainly, I can see why a college might sponsor intramural sports just as a way for their true scholars to have some fun and activity for their physical health and relaxation, but why should institutions whose raison d'etre is the life of the mind serve as a free (taxpayer-financed) training center for fantastically rich professional football team owners?

    It seems to me that, like baseball with its farm teams that the major league itself funds and recruits from, NFL should have to recruit, teach and pay its own dam*ed rookies, nowhere near the college campuses.

    Replies: @Realist, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Anonymous, @Lagertha, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Twinkie, @MC

    Football as the preeminent TV spectacle is not that old. It started getting really big in the 70s, so it’s only about a generation old as the major TV viewing spectacle.

    Before then, major league baseball was the main spectator sport, and its main mass medium was radio.

  116. @Renault
    @Clyde

    Or better yet, crew. She won't even need to be competent, just willing to sign up.

    Women's crew has 2o full scholarships per team.

    Replies: @Clyde

    Women’s crew has 2o full scholarships per team.

    More chance of your daughter being molested by lesbians on crew. More than on soccer I would think//// Those 20 are Title IX scholarships for crew? “I am woman hear me row!”

    • Replies: @Bill P
    @Clyde


    More chance of your daughter being molested by lesbians on crew. More than on soccer I would think//// Those 20 are Title IX scholarships for crew? “I am woman hear me row!”
     
    Actually, no, I don't think so. Not so many lesbos row, because it's an exclusive sport that requires very high physical and psychological "wholesomeness" (genetic fitness in fact). I couldn't stick with it myself because I don't have the temperament. However, I will say that during that brief period of my life in which I lived with that extreme discipline I was healthier and got more done every day than I ever had before or since. But honestly it held no appeal aside from the feeling of being in extremely good shape. As someone who had played a lot of skill sports, I felt a certain degree of contempt for the discipline. In retrospect, that explains a lot about my life and personality.

    Rowers are among the most stable and "solid" athletes of all, and have an amazing ability to sacrifice for the greater good without complaining (you know what I mean if you've ever finished a 2,000 meter race at full throttle -- you feel like you're about to expire toward the end). And what do they get for their effort? A ribbon or medal and the feeling of having been part of a team effort, and little else, and that's enough for them. None of those hunter/killer rewards you get from striking someone out, putting a ball in the net, slamming a dunk or laying out some chump with a well-placed hit.

    Lesbians generally don't have that psychology. The women I've known who were elite rowers were like goddesses in their feminine physicality, and on top of it they were well-behaved and had a naturally holistic, communal and sacrificial attitude. Definitely not lesbian-like.

    The only problem with female rowers is that they often end up somewhat beefier than most women, but that's a relatively minor flaw all things considered. Doesn't bother me so long as it's in the right places.

    Lesbians tend to excel in sports where the competition is personal and individual. Unlike normal women, lesbians thrill to the kill. And unlike men, they are deceptive by nature. Not a good combination.

    BTW, the first Rus were essentially a Swedish crew team from Rosland. People often blame the Orientals for Russian communalism, but I personally think the Swedes deserve at least as much of the blame for the unique Russian character.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    , @jack
    @Clyde

    Outside basketball and softball the vast majority of female athletes are straight.

  117. And the final thought is:

    Don’t you think the football players deserve some kind of compensation for having to mince around in an outfit designed by Tom of Finland on a frisky day?

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    @Bill Jones

    there is a film made about him coming out soon,

  118. @Hacienda
    Outside of mutual/hedge fund managing, being inherited dictator of N. Korea, is there a scummier occupation than head coach of basketball / football at a large university?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I’m not a big fan of college football or basketball, but if you’re a guy who’s always loved football or basketball, I would think being the head basketball or football coach at a university would be a pretty sweet gig and kind of fun.

  119. @Lot
    @Anonymous


    I don’t think smart kids from rich liberal parents go to Vanderbilt or other schools in the South.
     
    Duke, Tulane, and Vanderbilt get a good number of northeastern students.

    I don't know about smart though. Vanderbilt's official cost of attendance is now $63,300 a year.

    http://www.vanderbilt.edu/financialaid/costs.php

    Over four years, and including interest that starts running while still in school, and annual increases, you're looking at graduating with $280,000 in debt for a degree there without some scholarship.

    Paying that off takes $19,000 a year for 30 years at 5.25%. We've become a society that destroys our young with debt because they made what everyone tells them is a responsible choice when they're 18 and going off to a good college.

    While there are now government programs to reduce monthly payments based on income, that much debt still shows up on their credit report and stops them from getting a mortgage and thus buying a house and procreating responsibly. And the phaseout of the repayment assistance operates like a very high marginal surtax. So you're not much better off making $80,000 v $50,000 once you've been debt-enslaved by student loans.

    Replies: @Owly, @rustbeltreader, @Kevin O'Keeffe

    “I don’t know about smart though. Vanderbilt’s official cost of attendance is now $63,300 a year…Over four years, and including interest that starts running while still in school, and annual increases, you’re looking at graduating with $280,000 in debt for a degree there without some scholarship.”

    I have a difficult time believing very many people are going nearly $300K in debt for a mere B.A./B.S. from a prestigious, but decidedly less-than-Ivy-League university. I’m pretty sure most of the students shelling out that kinda dough, have wealthy parents who are picking up their tab.

    But I guess I could be wrong.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Kevin O'Keeffe

    "I have a difficult time believing very many people are going nearly $300K in debt for a mere B.A./B.S. from a prestigious, but decidedly less-than-Ivy-League university. I’m pretty sure most of the students shelling out that kinda dough, have wealthy parents who are picking up their tab."

    Right. Lots of students at Vanderbilt come from very affluent families, and generally speaking Vanderbilt offers very generous financial aid for those students from families of more modest means.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  120. @Anonymous
    @Gender Inflation


    During my time at UT Knoxville, both for undergrad and law school, I don’t think the football players ever mingled with the general student body. If even a semi-famous football player was sighted on campus, it was usually a huge ordeal (that exploded all over facebook/twitter). I’m not sure where they keep the athletes, but it’s evidently away from everyone else
     
    Well, there are some student athletes who are legit students. E.g., Tim Ruddy, who played 4 years of football at Notre Dame and was a mechanical engineering major who graduated with a 3.86 GPA. Ruddy went on to play for the Miami Dolphins.

    Replies: @dr kill

    Is that you, Tim?

  121. @MLK
    These articles detail the strongest case for the Culture of Rape argument. Yet it goes unmentioned.

    Meanwhile. . . .

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/nyregion/yale-restricts-a-fraternity-after-sexual-misconduct.html?_r=0

    "But has any tuition-paying Republican father publicly expressed concerns about university officials trying to persuade his daughter to play geisha to visiting 18-year-old cornerbacks?"

    That's an odd, perhaps unintentional, punt. Colleges aren't and shouldn't be subject to Strict Liability for sexual assaults. But both the institutions and the individuals, whether college employees or not, should be held criminally and civilly liable. The onus should not be placed on fathers, Republican or otherwise.

    Those commenters here who seemingly lament the inevitable lawsuits miss that these practices will only cease when the big business of college sports is hit in the wallet. Indeed, it is apparent that at this point criminal prosecutions of college administrators is needed as well.

    Replies: @Renault

    I don’t understood why Ivy frats/clubs haven’t just done what Harvard’s final clubs did: completely sever all connections with the university.

  122. @Clyde
    @Renault


    Women’s crew has 2o full scholarships per team.
     
    More chance of your daughter being molested by lesbians on crew. More than on soccer I would think//// Those 20 are Title IX scholarships for crew? "I am woman hear me row!"

    Replies: @Bill P, @jack

    More chance of your daughter being molested by lesbians on crew. More than on soccer I would think//// Those 20 are Title IX scholarships for crew? “I am woman hear me row!”

    Actually, no, I don’t think so. Not so many lesbos row, because it’s an exclusive sport that requires very high physical and psychological “wholesomeness” (genetic fitness in fact). I couldn’t stick with it myself because I don’t have the temperament. However, I will say that during that brief period of my life in which I lived with that extreme discipline I was healthier and got more done every day than I ever had before or since. But honestly it held no appeal aside from the feeling of being in extremely good shape. As someone who had played a lot of skill sports, I felt a certain degree of contempt for the discipline. In retrospect, that explains a lot about my life and personality.

    Rowers are among the most stable and “solid” athletes of all, and have an amazing ability to sacrifice for the greater good without complaining (you know what I mean if you’ve ever finished a 2,000 meter race at full throttle — you feel like you’re about to expire toward the end). And what do they get for their effort? A ribbon or medal and the feeling of having been part of a team effort, and little else, and that’s enough for them. None of those hunter/killer rewards you get from striking someone out, putting a ball in the net, slamming a dunk or laying out some chump with a well-placed hit.

    Lesbians generally don’t have that psychology. The women I’ve known who were elite rowers were like goddesses in their feminine physicality, and on top of it they were well-behaved and had a naturally holistic, communal and sacrificial attitude. Definitely not lesbian-like.

    The only problem with female rowers is that they often end up somewhat beefier than most women, but that’s a relatively minor flaw all things considered. Doesn’t bother me so long as it’s in the right places.

    Lesbians tend to excel in sports where the competition is personal and individual. Unlike normal women, lesbians thrill to the kill. And unlike men, they are deceptive by nature. Not a good combination.

    BTW, the first Rus were essentially a Swedish crew team from Rosland. People often blame the Orientals for Russian communalism, but I personally think the Swedes deserve at least as much of the blame for the unique Russian character.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    @Bill P


    Actually, no, I don’t think so. Not so many lesbos row, because it’s an exclusive sport that requires very high physical and psychological “wholesomeness” (genetic fitness in fact)...

    The women I’ve known who were elite rowers were like goddesses in their feminine physicality, and on top of it they were well-behaved and had a naturally holistic, communal and sacrificial attitude. Definitely not lesbian-like.
     
    You got that right!

    Lesbians tend to excel in sports where the competition is personal and individual. Unlike normal women, lesbians thrill to the kill.
     
    I don't know about that. There are lots of homosexual females in tennis, for example, but also in field hockey.

    It seems to me that "ball and stick" type sports tend to attract such women. I don't think individual vs. group matters as much. It seems to be more aggression/weapons thing.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Ivy

  123. @anony-mouse
    I would hate it if anyone used the old-fashioned word 'adventuress' to describe an 'outgoing' woman who would voluntarily escort, oops, sorry, hostess, around a group of high-T men around a campus, have sex with them and sue for lots of money (I assume the lawsuit will come later).

    Replies: @ben tillman

    I dated a “Georgia Girl” (one of the UGA recruiting hostesses), and all the players hit on her, and she turned them all down. So don’t jump to conclusions about any of these girls.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @ben tillman

    Right, but don't jump to conclusions that girls don't tell, um, white lies.

    Replies: @ben tillman

  124. from the pic: “How old is this guy? Did he do 5-to-10 before getting his college scholarship”?

    it’s well known that many kids are held back on purpose so that they are not competing at the same level as the “normal” athletes. When my kids were 17 year old seniors all the best players were turning 20 within days or months of their last high school playoff game…..basically grown men competing with kids.

  125. @iffen
    Seeing all those perky female trainers on the sidelines has always looked odd to me.

    Replies: @ScarletNumber

    It’s not odd. They are passed around from athlete to athlete. Open secret.

  126. Priss Factor [AKA "K. Arujo"] says:

    But here’s the thing. No one forced these girls. They are into jungle fever. They grew up cheering for high school athletes. They watched their fathers, uncles, and brothers hooked to TV screen.
    Their parents are likely Liberals or ‘liberal on race’ even if Conservative. They bump and grind to rap music and that junk. Their values come from stuff like Sex and the Slutty.

    These girls wanna play these roles. And even though some get hurt and cry rape, many more are enjoying romping around with Negro studs and telling their friends all about it, and then the friends get excited.

  127. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Kevin O'Keeffe
    @Lot

    "I don’t know about smart though. Vanderbilt’s official cost of attendance is now $63,300 a year...Over four years, and including interest that starts running while still in school, and annual increases, you’re looking at graduating with $280,000 in debt for a degree there without some scholarship."

    I have a difficult time believing very many people are going nearly $300K in debt for a mere B.A./B.S. from a prestigious, but decidedly less-than-Ivy-League university. I'm pretty sure most of the students shelling out that kinda dough, have wealthy parents who are picking up their tab.

    But I guess I could be wrong.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    “I have a difficult time believing very many people are going nearly $300K in debt for a mere B.A./B.S. from a prestigious, but decidedly less-than-Ivy-League university. I’m pretty sure most of the students shelling out that kinda dough, have wealthy parents who are picking up their tab.”

    Right. Lots of students at Vanderbilt come from very affluent families, and generally speaking Vanderbilt offers very generous financial aid for those students from families of more modest means.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Right. Vanderbilt has moved to a grant-only form of assistance, but it's still need-based.


    Grants and Scholarships can be awarded from a variety of sources including Vanderbilt, federal, state and private entities. These funds are considered "gift" assistance and do not have to be repaid.
     
    http://www.vanderbilt.edu/financialaid/undergraduate/types.php

    Replies: @Anonymous

  128. @ben tillman
    @anony-mouse

    I dated a "Georgia Girl" (one of the UGA recruiting hostesses), and all the players hit on her, and she turned them all down. So don't jump to conclusions about any of these girls.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Right, but don’t jump to conclusions that girls don’t tell, um, white lies.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Anonymous


    Right, but don’t jump to conclusions that girls don’t tell, um, white lies.
     
    Implying that I can't tell when a woman I have known for 25 years is lying reflects poorly on you. And she wouldn't be able to tell "white" lies in the sense you're talking about. Her mother was Korean.
  129. @Anonymous
    @Kevin O'Keeffe

    "I have a difficult time believing very many people are going nearly $300K in debt for a mere B.A./B.S. from a prestigious, but decidedly less-than-Ivy-League university. I’m pretty sure most of the students shelling out that kinda dough, have wealthy parents who are picking up their tab."

    Right. Lots of students at Vanderbilt come from very affluent families, and generally speaking Vanderbilt offers very generous financial aid for those students from families of more modest means.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Right. Vanderbilt has moved to a grant-only form of assistance, but it’s still need-based.

    Grants and Scholarships can be awarded from a variety of sources including Vanderbilt, federal, state and private entities. These funds are considered “gift” assistance and do not have to be repaid.

    http://www.vanderbilt.edu/financialaid/undergraduate/types.php

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Universities have figured out how to use sky high nominal tuition prices to implement price discrimination.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  130. @JSM
    @MC


    I wonder if the better sort of schools will start to ditch major sports in favor of actual student athletics. I’m a huge college football fan, and therefore conflicted about this.
     
    Hi, MC. I am curious about your being conflicted. I ask sincerely, because I just don't "get" the appeal of football, at all, but particularly, what is it about *college* football that makes you crave it so much?

    Because, you see, I've never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.

    Certainly, I can see why a college might sponsor intramural sports just as a way for their true scholars to have some fun and activity for their physical health and relaxation, but why should institutions whose raison d'etre is the life of the mind serve as a free (taxpayer-financed) training center for fantastically rich professional football team owners?

    It seems to me that, like baseball with its farm teams that the major league itself funds and recruits from, NFL should have to recruit, teach and pay its own dam*ed rookies, nowhere near the college campuses.

    Replies: @Realist, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Anonymous, @Lagertha, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Twinkie, @MC

    Because, you see, I’ve never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.

    On this, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Academics should come first, no if’s and but’s.

    Certainly, I can see why a college might sponsor intramural sports just as a way for their true scholars to have some fun and activity for their physical health and relaxation, but why should institutions whose raison d’etre is the life of the mind serve as a free (taxpayer-financed) training center for fantastically rich professional football team owners?

    Team athletics is not simply about fun. It builds camaraderie and social cohesion, and not just for the team, but for the whole school. The problem is not with athletics per se, but with commercialization of it that degrades academics and morals.

    Bring back scholar-athletes again, I say!

  131. @Bill P
    @Clyde


    More chance of your daughter being molested by lesbians on crew. More than on soccer I would think//// Those 20 are Title IX scholarships for crew? “I am woman hear me row!”
     
    Actually, no, I don't think so. Not so many lesbos row, because it's an exclusive sport that requires very high physical and psychological "wholesomeness" (genetic fitness in fact). I couldn't stick with it myself because I don't have the temperament. However, I will say that during that brief period of my life in which I lived with that extreme discipline I was healthier and got more done every day than I ever had before or since. But honestly it held no appeal aside from the feeling of being in extremely good shape. As someone who had played a lot of skill sports, I felt a certain degree of contempt for the discipline. In retrospect, that explains a lot about my life and personality.

    Rowers are among the most stable and "solid" athletes of all, and have an amazing ability to sacrifice for the greater good without complaining (you know what I mean if you've ever finished a 2,000 meter race at full throttle -- you feel like you're about to expire toward the end). And what do they get for their effort? A ribbon or medal and the feeling of having been part of a team effort, and little else, and that's enough for them. None of those hunter/killer rewards you get from striking someone out, putting a ball in the net, slamming a dunk or laying out some chump with a well-placed hit.

    Lesbians generally don't have that psychology. The women I've known who were elite rowers were like goddesses in their feminine physicality, and on top of it they were well-behaved and had a naturally holistic, communal and sacrificial attitude. Definitely not lesbian-like.

    The only problem with female rowers is that they often end up somewhat beefier than most women, but that's a relatively minor flaw all things considered. Doesn't bother me so long as it's in the right places.

    Lesbians tend to excel in sports where the competition is personal and individual. Unlike normal women, lesbians thrill to the kill. And unlike men, they are deceptive by nature. Not a good combination.

    BTW, the first Rus were essentially a Swedish crew team from Rosland. People often blame the Orientals for Russian communalism, but I personally think the Swedes deserve at least as much of the blame for the unique Russian character.

    Replies: @Twinkie

    Actually, no, I don’t think so. Not so many lesbos row, because it’s an exclusive sport that requires very high physical and psychological “wholesomeness” (genetic fitness in fact)…

    The women I’ve known who were elite rowers were like goddesses in their feminine physicality, and on top of it they were well-behaved and had a naturally holistic, communal and sacrificial attitude. Definitely not lesbian-like.

    You got that right!

    Lesbians tend to excel in sports where the competition is personal and individual. Unlike normal women, lesbians thrill to the kill.

    I don’t know about that. There are lots of homosexual females in tennis, for example, but also in field hockey.

    It seems to me that “ball and stick” type sports tend to attract such women. I don’t think individual vs. group matters as much. It seems to be more aggression/weapons thing.

    • Replies: @The most deplorable one
    @Twinkie


    It seems to me that “ball and stick” type sports tend to attract such women. I don’t think individual vs. group matters as much. It seems to be more aggression/weapons thing.
     
    I suspect that it is CAH. Masculinization via the extra testosterone. I wonder if they have the classic male trait of longer forearms at birth?
    , @Ivy
    @Twinkie

    Or softball. I dated one of two straight girls on a AA softball team. She said the butches just laughed at the girly girls.

  132. @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Right. Vanderbilt has moved to a grant-only form of assistance, but it's still need-based.


    Grants and Scholarships can be awarded from a variety of sources including Vanderbilt, federal, state and private entities. These funds are considered "gift" assistance and do not have to be repaid.
     
    http://www.vanderbilt.edu/financialaid/undergraduate/types.php

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Universities have figured out how to use sky high nominal tuition prices to implement price discrimination.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Maybe. I think that practice is much more common among graduate schools. Also, Vanderbilt prominently displays that it is committed to meeting 100% of demonstrated need. I have no idea where that line falls on the continuum (and it may vary by circumstance, see this link: http://admissions.vanderbilt.edu/vandybloggers/2010/08/need-based-financial-aid-at-vanderbilt/).

    But that wasn't my point. My point was to amplify the comment that Vanderbilt provides generous aid by pointing out that it doesn't give its students loans.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  133. @Clyde
    @Renault


    Women’s crew has 2o full scholarships per team.
     
    More chance of your daughter being molested by lesbians on crew. More than on soccer I would think//// Those 20 are Title IX scholarships for crew? "I am woman hear me row!"

    Replies: @Bill P, @jack

    Outside basketball and softball the vast majority of female athletes are straight.

  134. … and she turned them all down

    She told you that?

  135. @Anonymous
    @grey enlightenment


    any tuition-paying Republican father

    for whatever reason George Will came came to mind when I read that line

     

    For me what comes to mind is some Tahoe-driving, Limbaugh-listening, church-going, successful businessman from an upper-middle class suburb of Atlanta. One of these guys with southern accents I hear calling up Limbaugh ("mega dittos Rush") arguing that our problems are due to high taxes or Obama shredding the Constitution or the 14th Amendment or not having a strong leader like Ronald Reagan (who, btw, gave us modern Islamic extremism).

    I don't think smart kids from rich liberal parents go to Vanderbilt or other schools in the South. They go to Bard or Williams or Bowdoin or Wellesley...

    Replies: @Lot, @yaqub the mad scientist, @shrinker, @Brutusale, @Curle

    “I don’t think smart kids from rich liberal parents go to Vanderbilt or other schools in the South. They go to Bard or Williams or Bowdoin or Wellesley…” ————————– And become lesbians.

  136. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Universities have figured out how to use sky high nominal tuition prices to implement price discrimination.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Maybe. I think that practice is much more common among graduate schools. Also, Vanderbilt prominently displays that it is committed to meeting 100% of demonstrated need. I have no idea where that line falls on the continuum (and it may vary by circumstance, see this link: http://admissions.vanderbilt.edu/vandybloggers/2010/08/need-based-financial-aid-at-vanderbilt/).

    But that wasn’t my point. My point was to amplify the comment that Vanderbilt provides generous aid by pointing out that it doesn’t give its students loans.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    By setting a high nominal price, the richest students pay the full high price.

    All the students poorer than the richest students that can't pay the full price i.e. most students submit their family wealth and income information to the university, which then determines how much of the tuition they can pay and thus how much financial aid they need.

    That's the price discrimination. Each student is effectively charged a different price. The high nominal price is a mechanism for doing that.

    Replies: @Lagertha

  137. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Maybe. I think that practice is much more common among graduate schools. Also, Vanderbilt prominently displays that it is committed to meeting 100% of demonstrated need. I have no idea where that line falls on the continuum (and it may vary by circumstance, see this link: http://admissions.vanderbilt.edu/vandybloggers/2010/08/need-based-financial-aid-at-vanderbilt/).

    But that wasn't my point. My point was to amplify the comment that Vanderbilt provides generous aid by pointing out that it doesn't give its students loans.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    By setting a high nominal price, the richest students pay the full high price.

    All the students poorer than the richest students that can’t pay the full price i.e. most students submit their family wealth and income information to the university, which then determines how much of the tuition they can pay and thus how much financial aid they need.

    That’s the price discrimination. Each student is effectively charged a different price. The high nominal price is a mechanism for doing that.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    @Anonymous

    No family qualifies for federal financial aid to cover 90% of tuition (even if another child is at university the same time) if the family earns more than $130,000.00 annual salary which they must declare on the FAFSA. There may be some small grants $1000 (peanuts, really) thrown in or so, but that covers books at best. Most students from families earning more than the ball park, 130K, are funneled into getting those govt backed loans (the risky bubble everyone talks about) to pay for every one of those 4 years. All the universities are off the hook since the loans are backed by the govt. So, you see how any U, private or public, can just keep upping their tuition since they are "off the hook" with students who borrow anywhere from 80K to 200+K. And, crazily, some students' families even use private loans (big mistake) instead of the federal student loans. Lastly, a lot of U's spent millions creating a lot of infrastructure in the 90's & 2000's to attract students, and there are just a few U's in the country that could use their endowment and charge no tuition, but they don't.

    In other words, families submit their info to the university in hopes of receiving aid, but the FAFSA & the CSS Profile determines what if any funds, they receive. So the U's are off the hook. Some U's will give merit aid, athletic scholarships, or grants for exceptional "giftedness," but it is never enough to cover the annual tuition. So, you are right that each student pays a different price. Now, of course, schools are freaking out since the main "full freight" families (make-up about 50% of school pop.) of universities, are looking for more affordable schools, programs - cs, in particular, & other STEM students are going strictly to Publics, Canada, overseas.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lagertha

  138. The most deplorable one [AKA "Fourth doorman of the apocalypse"] says:
    @Twinkie
    @Bill P


    Actually, no, I don’t think so. Not so many lesbos row, because it’s an exclusive sport that requires very high physical and psychological “wholesomeness” (genetic fitness in fact)...

    The women I’ve known who were elite rowers were like goddesses in their feminine physicality, and on top of it they were well-behaved and had a naturally holistic, communal and sacrificial attitude. Definitely not lesbian-like.
     
    You got that right!

    Lesbians tend to excel in sports where the competition is personal and individual. Unlike normal women, lesbians thrill to the kill.
     
    I don't know about that. There are lots of homosexual females in tennis, for example, but also in field hockey.

    It seems to me that "ball and stick" type sports tend to attract such women. I don't think individual vs. group matters as much. It seems to be more aggression/weapons thing.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Ivy

    It seems to me that “ball and stick” type sports tend to attract such women. I don’t think individual vs. group matters as much. It seems to be more aggression/weapons thing.

    I suspect that it is CAH. Masculinization via the extra testosterone. I wonder if they have the classic male trait of longer forearms at birth?

  139. @Anonymous
    This is why 50 Shades isn't that bad if you think about it. Most men would prefer their female relations getting anally fisted by someone like Christian Grey than consorting with these "student athletes".

    Replies: @Truth

    “This is why 50 Shades isn’t that bad if you think about it. Most men would prefer their female relations getting anally fisted by someone like Christian Grey than consorting with these “student athletes”.

    He has to choose?

  140. @Stan Adams
    If you want to get into the racial and sexual dynamics of college football ... yes, I did see some very tall and muscular black athletes strutting around with some very nice-looking white girls.

    Of course, there were some very not-bad-looking black girls on campus, and the brothas did not shun them. It was not uncommon to see a jacked-up black guy with a sista in tow.

    But I also saw white players - even benchwarmers - with some very nice-looking white girls. Even the ugly, fat, offensive-lineman types tended to draw not-bad-looking chicks into their orbit. The bigger the guy, the smaller the girl - 6'7" guys seemed to have a thing for 5'1" girls, and vice-versa.

    I was girlfriend-less all through college, so, yes, I did jealously look to see what other guys had that I didn't. The library (where I worked) was not too far from the athletic buildings, so when I walked to the bus stop I often passed by Jock Central.

    Like I said, one year I had a couple of classes with one of the starting quarterbacks. I didn't know him very well, but we chatted a few times. One time I helped him with an assignment, and after that he always made a point of saying hello to me whenever we saw each other.

    One day, I ran into him in the food court - yes, even the mighty football players ate in the food court - and he invited me to join him and one of his teammates. It was a friendly gesture, so I sat down at their table. I was (and still am) a loner bookworm nerd, so I felt a bit strange about having lunch with two testosterone-pumped jocks. But we got through it.

    His teammate was also white - tall, muscular, and as blonde-haired, blue-eyed, and square-jawed as Haven Monahan could ever hope to be.

    (Alas, his alpha-Aryan genes went to waste. He died a childless waiter at the age of 26 - got drunk and smashed up his car. The things one learns from Googling random names from one's past.)

    At one point, the teammate's cell phone chirped. This was in the clamshell days, so he flipped it open to read the text. He immediately burst out laughing. He showed the phone to the quarterback, who likewise burst out laughing. Then he showed it to me.

    The message read: "SO FUCKING SORE RIGHT NOW. WHAT TIME TONIGHT?"

    In the midst of their laughter, I heard the teammate say something like "fucked that bitch so hard last night." I worked up some fake laughter of my own, but not knowing the story behind the text, decided to say nothing.

    Finally, the teammate asked me, "So, do you have a girlfriend?"

    "Not right now," I replied.

    "Yeah, me neither. But I'm fucking this one bitch right now, and she's, like, stalking me and shit. She wants me every night."

    "Hopefully she won't end up boiling your bunny rabbit."

    "What?"

    "Never mind."

    "No, what does that mean?"

    "It's from an old movie called Fatal Attraction. This guy fucks this woman, but even after he tells her to get lost she won't leave him alone. So she goes to his house and boils his daughter's pet bunny rabbit on the stove."

    After an interval of awkward silence, the quarterback said, "I'll bet she feels like you're fucking her with a rabbit."

    The teammate snorted again.

    "You know," the quarterback said, leaning over a bit and lowering his voice, "this guy has the biggest fucking dick on the team."

    The teammate looked embarrassed, but he smirked.

    "Does he?" I asked.

    "Yep. He's a white boy with a black dick. Mine's big, but his is fucking huge. That bitch is getting plowed. "

    "Wow."

    More awkward silence ensued. Finally someone started talking about something else.

    To this day, I have no idea why my classmate took the conversation in that direction.

    At any rate, it would seem that football players don't have trouble getting laid.

    Replies: @Truth

    “One day, I ran into him in the food court – yes, even the mighty football players ate in the food court – and he invited me to join him and one of his teammates.”

    Dude, that could have been the changing point of your life! Why didn’t you re-invent yourself from that day?

  141. Now I know why there are so many Yankee girls at Southern universities.

  142. anon • Disclaimer says:

    LOL and “student”-athlete Johnson has an IQ of about 80 and can barely read words with more than one syllable, if at all. This college “student” cannot tell you the square root of 91 or what 1/4 of 200 is.

    Yes, I know these facts simply by looking at him. It’s obvious from his facial structure (I can see his degree of evolution and r-selection), and if you disagree with me, you are a deluded lying leftist.

    Racism is realism.

    • Replies: @Harry Baldwin
    @anon

    This college “student” cannot tell you the square root of 91 or what 1/4 of 200 is.

    Did you mean to write "the square root of 81"? Because I couldn't tell you the square root of 91 without a calculator.

  143. anon • Disclaimer says:
    @MC
    This gets at the larger question of why a college graduate would feel any affinity with some illiterate thug just because they "attended" the same school. I wonder if the better sort of schools will start to ditch major sports in favor of actual student athletics. I'm a huge college football fan, and therefore conflicted about this.

    Replies: @JSM, @Grumpy, @The Anti-Gnostic, @anon

    Yes, I’ve been saying this for years. Your comment was great until the end. What are you waiting for? Yes, of course, stop being a “huge college football fan.”

    I attended a major state school football powerhouse. Have not been to a game in 14 years. Those thugs are not “students” and they don’t give a damn about me or my school or even my civilization. Fuck them. I want my school to eventually be seen as a University of Virginia type of place, not a football school.

    • Replies: @MC
    @anon

    "I want my school to eventually be seen as a University of Virginia type of place, not a football school."

    You know that Virginia plays major college football and basketball, right? And that its basketball team is currently ranked #2 in the country? Having major sports teams is part of the identify of UVA. If it didn't, it would have a much different vibe.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @ben tillman, @Marty T

  144. @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    By setting a high nominal price, the richest students pay the full high price.

    All the students poorer than the richest students that can't pay the full price i.e. most students submit their family wealth and income information to the university, which then determines how much of the tuition they can pay and thus how much financial aid they need.

    That's the price discrimination. Each student is effectively charged a different price. The high nominal price is a mechanism for doing that.

    Replies: @Lagertha

    No family qualifies for federal financial aid to cover 90% of tuition (even if another child is at university the same time) if the family earns more than $130,000.00 annual salary which they must declare on the FAFSA. There may be some small grants $1000 (peanuts, really) thrown in or so, but that covers books at best. Most students from families earning more than the ball park, 130K, are funneled into getting those govt backed loans (the risky bubble everyone talks about) to pay for every one of those 4 years. All the universities are off the hook since the loans are backed by the govt. So, you see how any U, private or public, can just keep upping their tuition since they are “off the hook” with students who borrow anywhere from 80K to 200+K. And, crazily, some students’ families even use private loans (big mistake) instead of the federal student loans. Lastly, a lot of U’s spent millions creating a lot of infrastructure in the 90’s & 2000’s to attract students, and there are just a few U’s in the country that could use their endowment and charge no tuition, but they don’t.

    In other words, families submit their info to the university in hopes of receiving aid, but the FAFSA & the CSS Profile determines what if any funds, they receive. So the U’s are off the hook. Some U’s will give merit aid, athletic scholarships, or grants for exceptional “giftedness,” but it is never enough to cover the annual tuition. So, you are right that each student pays a different price. Now, of course, schools are freaking out since the main “full freight” families (make-up about 50% of school pop.) of universities, are looking for more affordable schools, programs – cs, in particular, & other STEM students are going strictly to Publics, Canada, overseas.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Lagertha

    I'm familiar with student loans. It doesn't change my point about price discrimination. Price discrimination and student loans are not mutually exclusive.

    Replies: @Lagertha

    , @Lagertha
    @Lagertha

    correct

  145. Thugs on steroids aren´t athletes, let alone students. Let´s be honest, what kind of athleticism is involved in playing football in defence positions? Just being big, juiced up and reasonably quick seem enough. Please enlighten me.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    @BB753

    Ok, so, my very white, very Aryan (Finnish, German, Scottish, Armenian - yeah, weird, oldest Christian country IN THE WORLD) sons were ALL-State (defensive line) for football, wrestling, rugby; academically, included. My eldest was also "All-American" for fencing, with addition to soccer & rugby. The B & W thing is something EVERYONE here, needs to avoid speculating about because it's tacky...if you don't have a kid in HS right now, you haven't a clue about the demographics of all the sports of HS. Why am I espousing this? - well, I may be younger or more worldly than you. And, like, you spelled 'defense' wrong.

    Replies: @BB753

  146. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The opening references to Birth of a Nation, and outdated racial stereotypes, provide an awkward, if not irrelevant, sequey into the central subject matter of the column ~ college football programs’ use of co-ed ‘escorts;’ which is fundamentally a story about gender, not race. The inexplicable phrenological reference to ‘old penitentiary face’ seems like a throwback to the racist social science that fueled Jim Crow.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    You're missing the intentional irony of Wolfe's "A Man in Full" about how much things have changed in the South: a rich white girl accuses a black man of rape and ... the Establishment of Atlanta, white and black, goes into overdrive to sweep the charges under the rug. But even in the 1990s, practically nobody got Wolfe's joke, and today, even in the midst of a moral panic over Campus Rape by the likes of Haven Monahan, nobody seems to notice how implicated the white establishments of Southern states are in putting their own daughters at risk of rape or seduction by black football players.

    Replies: @David In TN

    , @iffen
    @Anonymous

    This may be a failure to communicate problem. Steve understands what you are saying. I'm not sure that you understand what he is saying.

    Even when people pretend otherwise, it usually is about race.

  147. @Stan Adams
    @Gender Inflation

    I went to a private university in the southeastern United States that boasted a nationally-prominent football program. (That's as specific as I'm going to get.) During my years there, the football team wasn't nearly the powerhouse it had been, but it was still a big-time operation.

    I saw football players around campus all the time - even in the library (!) - and even had a couple of classes with one of the on-again, off-again starting quarterbacks. (Nice guy, but not brilliant and definitely not NFL material.) And, no, I wasn't taking Rocks for Jocks.

    The players were recognized and acknowledged as they walked around, but it wasn't as if people regularly dropped what they were doing and screamed, "OMIGOD JOCKS ARE AMONG US WOW!"

    Now, I knew a few guys who worked in the athlete-tutoring program, and, yes, some of their stories were along the lines of what Tom Wolfe wrote about in Charlotte Simmons. But they maintained that there were some fairly smart guys on the team.

    One guy in particular, a mulatto who went on to become a big name, was said to be surprisingly sharp. Supposedly he talked about pursuing a law degree after his NFL career was over.

    They did confirm that quite a few of the football players, including some of the white ones, were rock-dumb morons. Some of the knuckle-draggers resented the fact that they had to go to class and pretend to be real students. (I couldn't blame them for feeling angry - everyone knew they were there to play ball. Why go through the pretense?)

    Replies: @Plethon

    You did a poor job of hiding the fact that you went to the University of Miami.

  148. Daddy’s little girl isn’t going to mention over Christmas dinner that she slept with half a dozen black recruits last semester. Most fathers probably don’t know there’s anything to complain about.

  149. @Anonymous
    The opening references to Birth of a Nation, and outdated racial stereotypes, provide an awkward, if not irrelevant, sequey into the central subject matter of the column ~ college football programs' use of co-ed 'escorts;' which is fundamentally a story about gender, not race. The inexplicable phrenological reference to 'old penitentiary face' seems like a throwback to the racist social science that fueled Jim Crow.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @iffen

    You’re missing the intentional irony of Wolfe’s “A Man in Full” about how much things have changed in the South: a rich white girl accuses a black man of rape and … the Establishment of Atlanta, white and black, goes into overdrive to sweep the charges under the rug. But even in the 1990s, practically nobody got Wolfe’s joke, and today, even in the midst of a moral panic over Campus Rape by the likes of Haven Monahan, nobody seems to notice how implicated the white establishments of Southern states are in putting their own daughters at risk of rape or seduction by black football players.

    • Replies: @David In TN
    @Steve Sailer

    In my opinion, Tom Wolfe would have been more daring if he had the black football star rape and murder the rich white girl and play the race card at the trial held in Atlanta.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  150. @Lagertha
    @Anonymous

    No family qualifies for federal financial aid to cover 90% of tuition (even if another child is at university the same time) if the family earns more than $130,000.00 annual salary which they must declare on the FAFSA. There may be some small grants $1000 (peanuts, really) thrown in or so, but that covers books at best. Most students from families earning more than the ball park, 130K, are funneled into getting those govt backed loans (the risky bubble everyone talks about) to pay for every one of those 4 years. All the universities are off the hook since the loans are backed by the govt. So, you see how any U, private or public, can just keep upping their tuition since they are "off the hook" with students who borrow anywhere from 80K to 200+K. And, crazily, some students' families even use private loans (big mistake) instead of the federal student loans. Lastly, a lot of U's spent millions creating a lot of infrastructure in the 90's & 2000's to attract students, and there are just a few U's in the country that could use their endowment and charge no tuition, but they don't.

    In other words, families submit their info to the university in hopes of receiving aid, but the FAFSA & the CSS Profile determines what if any funds, they receive. So the U's are off the hook. Some U's will give merit aid, athletic scholarships, or grants for exceptional "giftedness," but it is never enough to cover the annual tuition. So, you are right that each student pays a different price. Now, of course, schools are freaking out since the main "full freight" families (make-up about 50% of school pop.) of universities, are looking for more affordable schools, programs - cs, in particular, & other STEM students are going strictly to Publics, Canada, overseas.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lagertha

    I’m familiar with student loans. It doesn’t change my point about price discrimination. Price discrimination and student loans are not mutually exclusive.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    @Anonymous

    duh

  151. off topic:
    in german media there have recently been many reports about teacher who were accused of having sex with their students. Pictures of the teachers are shown in the newspaper while pictures of the pictures are no shown. The teachers always were white women. Am I right to assume that the students in most cases are black men?

  152. @anon
    LOL and "student"-athlete Johnson has an IQ of about 80 and can barely read words with more than one syllable, if at all. This college "student" cannot tell you the square root of 91 or what 1/4 of 200 is.

    Yes, I know these facts simply by looking at him. It's obvious from his facial structure (I can see his degree of evolution and r-selection), and if you disagree with me, you are a deluded lying leftist.

    Racism is realism.

    Replies: @Harry Baldwin

    This college “student” cannot tell you the square root of 91 or what 1/4 of 200 is.

    Did you mean to write “the square root of 81”? Because I couldn’t tell you the square root of 91 without a calculator.

  153. @rustbeltreader
    Football program funded. Engineering? That was not a priority.
    "Americans should be worried." http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/07/14/pentagons-big-budget-f-35-fighter-cant-turn-cant-climb-cant-run/
    The submarine program is real good, so worry a little less. We can still sink and hide.

    Replies: @AnAnon, @Major Problem

    Eh.
    When the F-18 was in development it was disparaged by the fighter mafia as a sure loser, being described as “one pilot, one bomb, one hour,” referring to crew, payload and endurance. The big thing then was that you needed a large aircraft with a two-man crew (F-14, F-4) to survive in the modern air-combat environment. The concern was that a single pilot would spend so much time with his head inside the cockpit monitoring systems that he wouldn’t be able to fly properly. A weapons officer was a must.
    Turns out they were wrong.
    And, interestingly enough, when the F-4 was being introduced, the critics howled that it was going to be a dud because it had a two-man crew. A true fighter would be like the single-seat F-8. Same complaints against the F-14.
    Turns out they were wrong.
    And I say this having a grandfather, a father and a sibling who were or are naval aviators. A real aviator takes whatever piece of junk Uncle Sam provides and not only makes it talk, but makes it sing like a coloratura soprano.

  154. @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    You're missing the intentional irony of Wolfe's "A Man in Full" about how much things have changed in the South: a rich white girl accuses a black man of rape and ... the Establishment of Atlanta, white and black, goes into overdrive to sweep the charges under the rug. But even in the 1990s, practically nobody got Wolfe's joke, and today, even in the midst of a moral panic over Campus Rape by the likes of Haven Monahan, nobody seems to notice how implicated the white establishments of Southern states are in putting their own daughters at risk of rape or seduction by black football players.

    Replies: @David In TN

    In my opinion, Tom Wolfe would have been more daring if he had the black football star rape and murder the rich white girl and play the race card at the trial held in Atlanta.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @David In TN

    That would probably be too heavy handed and kill the intentional irony of the book and thus diminish its literary value.

    Replies: @David In TN

  155. @David In TN
    @Steve Sailer

    In my opinion, Tom Wolfe would have been more daring if he had the black football star rape and murder the rich white girl and play the race card at the trial held in Atlanta.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    That would probably be too heavy handed and kill the intentional irony of the book and thus diminish its literary value.

    • Replies: @David In TN
    @Anonymous

    The reality of black on white murders are considered by the MSM (for the most part) to be "too heavy handed."

  156. When the University of Miami plays Florida State in football, the should start the game with a car alarm instead of a whistle.–Dan Jenkins

  157. This college “student” cannot tell you the square root of 91

    Wow! is he really THAT stupid?

  158. @Twinkie
    @Bill P


    Actually, no, I don’t think so. Not so many lesbos row, because it’s an exclusive sport that requires very high physical and psychological “wholesomeness” (genetic fitness in fact)...

    The women I’ve known who were elite rowers were like goddesses in their feminine physicality, and on top of it they were well-behaved and had a naturally holistic, communal and sacrificial attitude. Definitely not lesbian-like.
     
    You got that right!

    Lesbians tend to excel in sports where the competition is personal and individual. Unlike normal women, lesbians thrill to the kill.
     
    I don't know about that. There are lots of homosexual females in tennis, for example, but also in field hockey.

    It seems to me that "ball and stick" type sports tend to attract such women. I don't think individual vs. group matters as much. It seems to be more aggression/weapons thing.

    Replies: @The most deplorable one, @Ivy

    Or softball. I dated one of two straight girls on a AA softball team. She said the butches just laughed at the girly girls.

  159. @Lot
    It is sad that high school sports are so good for black kids--helping to keep them in school, putting in the effort to keep a C average, staying off the street in afternoons, providing an adult male role model in their coach, staying out of serious trouble--while college and pro football are so dysfunctional.

    Everyone here can do something about this however: cancel your cable. About $12-20 of your basic cable bill goes to ESPN and other sports, and their share keeps going up since live sports are the one thing people can't get on the internet or DVD.

    Everyone I've talked to who has "cut the cord" is happy about their additional free time and hundreds of dollars a year in additional money and wishes they would have done it sooner.

    Replies: @jo s'more

    You can get just MLB online for fairly cheap. Same for Hockey. Makes more sense than cable if you are a sports fan. Nobody knows college baseball or hockey players, so maybe their programs aren’t as screwed up. Fewer dollars may mean less corruption.

  160. No family qualifies for federal financial aid to cover 90% of tuition (even if another child is at university the same time) if the family earns more than $130,000.00 annual salary which they must declare on the FAFSA.

    True, but, two unemployed college students married to each other qualify for 95% of their college tuition room and board.

    • Replies: @Lagertha
    @sunny

    Go

    , @Lagertha
    @sunny

    Go

  161. @Lagertha
    @Anonymous

    No family qualifies for federal financial aid to cover 90% of tuition (even if another child is at university the same time) if the family earns more than $130,000.00 annual salary which they must declare on the FAFSA. There may be some small grants $1000 (peanuts, really) thrown in or so, but that covers books at best. Most students from families earning more than the ball park, 130K, are funneled into getting those govt backed loans (the risky bubble everyone talks about) to pay for every one of those 4 years. All the universities are off the hook since the loans are backed by the govt. So, you see how any U, private or public, can just keep upping their tuition since they are "off the hook" with students who borrow anywhere from 80K to 200+K. And, crazily, some students' families even use private loans (big mistake) instead of the federal student loans. Lastly, a lot of U's spent millions creating a lot of infrastructure in the 90's & 2000's to attract students, and there are just a few U's in the country that could use their endowment and charge no tuition, but they don't.

    In other words, families submit their info to the university in hopes of receiving aid, but the FAFSA & the CSS Profile determines what if any funds, they receive. So the U's are off the hook. Some U's will give merit aid, athletic scholarships, or grants for exceptional "giftedness," but it is never enough to cover the annual tuition. So, you are right that each student pays a different price. Now, of course, schools are freaking out since the main "full freight" families (make-up about 50% of school pop.) of universities, are looking for more affordable schools, programs - cs, in particular, & other STEM students are going strictly to Publics, Canada, overseas.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Lagertha

    correct

  162. @Bill Jones
    And the final thought is:

    Don't you think the football players deserve some kind of compensation for having to mince around in an outfit designed by Tom of Finland on a frisky day?

    Replies: @Lagertha

    there is a film made about him coming out soon,

  163. @Anonymous
    @Lagertha

    I'm familiar with student loans. It doesn't change my point about price discrimination. Price discrimination and student loans are not mutually exclusive.

    Replies: @Lagertha

    duh

  164. @sunny

    No family qualifies for federal financial aid to cover 90% of tuition (even if another child is at university the same time) if the family earns more than $130,000.00 annual salary which they must declare on the FAFSA.
     
    True, but, two unemployed college students married to each other qualify for 95% of their college tuition room and board.

    Replies: @Lagertha, @Lagertha

    Go

  165. @BB753
    Thugs on steroids aren´t athletes, let alone students. Let´s be honest, what kind of athleticism is involved in playing football in defence positions? Just being big, juiced up and reasonably quick seem enough. Please enlighten me.

    Replies: @Lagertha

    Ok, so, my very white, very Aryan (Finnish, German, Scottish, Armenian – yeah, weird, oldest Christian country IN THE WORLD) sons were ALL-State (defensive line) for football, wrestling, rugby; academically, included. My eldest was also “All-American” for fencing, with addition to soccer & rugby. The B & W thing is something EVERYONE here, needs to avoid speculating about because it’s tacky…if you don’t have a kid in HS right now, you haven’t a clue about the demographics of all the sports of HS. Why am I espousing this? – well, I may be younger or more worldly than you. And, like, you spelled ‘defense’ wrong.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @Lagertha

    http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/defence

    I´m not saying football defensive players are unathletic per se, just that juice and recruiting big guys can do the trick. Without the need of very special skills.In other words, a bouncer could play those positions. Prove me wrong.

  166. @Anonymous
    @David In TN

    That would probably be too heavy handed and kill the intentional irony of the book and thus diminish its literary value.

    Replies: @David In TN

    The reality of black on white murders are considered by the MSM (for the most part) to be “too heavy handed.”

  167. @sunny

    No family qualifies for federal financial aid to cover 90% of tuition (even if another child is at university the same time) if the family earns more than $130,000.00 annual salary which they must declare on the FAFSA.
     
    True, but, two unemployed college students married to each other qualify for 95% of their college tuition room and board.

    Replies: @Lagertha, @Lagertha

    Go

  168. “The best-paid public workers in the state of California are the athletic coaches at UCLA and UC Berkeley, with compensation often eclipsing $2 million a year, according to data from the state controller’s office.” OC Register

    You want to play, coach and dodge.

    “Ansel Adams elevated dodging and burning to an art form. Many of his famous prints were manipulated in the darkroom with these two techniques. Adams wrote a comprehensive book on producing prints called The Print (Adams 1995), which features dodging and burning prominently, in the context of his Zone System.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodging_and_burning

    Create your own system or be enslaved by anothers.

  169. @Anonymous
    The opening references to Birth of a Nation, and outdated racial stereotypes, provide an awkward, if not irrelevant, sequey into the central subject matter of the column ~ college football programs' use of co-ed 'escorts;' which is fundamentally a story about gender, not race. The inexplicable phrenological reference to 'old penitentiary face' seems like a throwback to the racist social science that fueled Jim Crow.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @iffen

    This may be a failure to communicate problem. Steve understands what you are saying. I’m not sure that you understand what he is saying.

    Even when people pretend otherwise, it usually is about race.

  170. @Lagertha
    @BB753

    Ok, so, my very white, very Aryan (Finnish, German, Scottish, Armenian - yeah, weird, oldest Christian country IN THE WORLD) sons were ALL-State (defensive line) for football, wrestling, rugby; academically, included. My eldest was also "All-American" for fencing, with addition to soccer & rugby. The B & W thing is something EVERYONE here, needs to avoid speculating about because it's tacky...if you don't have a kid in HS right now, you haven't a clue about the demographics of all the sports of HS. Why am I espousing this? - well, I may be younger or more worldly than you. And, like, you spelled 'defense' wrong.

    Replies: @BB753

    http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/defence

    I´m not saying football defensive players are unathletic per se, just that juice and recruiting big guys can do the trick. Without the need of very special skills.In other words, a bouncer could play those positions. Prove me wrong.

  171. Dateline Jersey: “Guinea broke my heart … I wasn’t prepared to watch entire families die. I wasn’t prepared to watch villages die,” said Watson-Stryker, a Rutgers graduate. That’s Life and then you die.

  172. The Obama administration made two announcements Friday regarding health insurance coverage under Obamacare — one involving some 800,000 inaccurate tax forms sent to people who purchased health insurance through Healthcare.
    800 rejectees at Carnegie Mellon University unhappy. Land of the free, home of the inaccurate. The check is in the mail!

  173. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @MC

    You're part of the problem.

    Replies: @MC

    You don’t think I know that? Why else would I feel conflicted about it?

  174. @JSM
    @MC


    I wonder if the better sort of schools will start to ditch major sports in favor of actual student athletics. I’m a huge college football fan, and therefore conflicted about this.
     
    Hi, MC. I am curious about your being conflicted. I ask sincerely, because I just don't "get" the appeal of football, at all, but particularly, what is it about *college* football that makes you crave it so much?

    Because, you see, I've never understood why televised, big-bucks semi-pro football is associated with college at all. College is supposed to be intellectual pursuits. You know, physics, math, ethics.

    Certainly, I can see why a college might sponsor intramural sports just as a way for their true scholars to have some fun and activity for their physical health and relaxation, but why should institutions whose raison d'etre is the life of the mind serve as a free (taxpayer-financed) training center for fantastically rich professional football team owners?

    It seems to me that, like baseball with its farm teams that the major league itself funds and recruits from, NFL should have to recruit, teach and pay its own dam*ed rookies, nowhere near the college campuses.

    Replies: @Realist, @Citizen of a Silly Country, @Anonymous, @Lagertha, @Anonymous, @Anonymous, @Twinkie, @MC

    “I am curious about your being conflicted. I ask sincerely, because I just don’t “get” the appeal of football, at all, but particularly, what is it about *college* football that makes you crave it so much?”

    Well, “crave” might be putting it a little too strongly, but there’s a lot that I love about college football.

    1. The game itself is a fun spectacle of athleticism and strategy.
    2. Pure territorial tribalism strikes a chord.
    3. Nostalgia for an exciting time in one’s life.
    4. Traditions which echo from the past (there’s something neat about how Michigan or OSU will always have the same basic colors, uniforms, fight songs, etc)
    5. 90% of the players know that they have no future in the pros. Thus, they are playing purely for pride, which makes for good drama.
    6. Rivalries which are quite old for a young country like ours.

    I could think of more, but you get the point. There’s a lot to like about college football, but the utter shambolicism of guys with a 13 ACT score pretending to be students at UCLA or UNC or wherever does detract from the enjoyment. If the NFL started a minor league, I would probably still watch college football and enjoy it more. In fact, when all the best high school basketball players used to jump to the NBA without stopping at a college (this is essentially prohibited now) back in the Oughts, that was probably my favorite time to watch college basketball.

  175. @anon
    @MC

    Yes, I've been saying this for years. Your comment was great until the end. What are you waiting for? Yes, of course, stop being a "huge college football fan."

    I attended a major state school football powerhouse. Have not been to a game in 14 years. Those thugs are not "students" and they don't give a damn about me or my school or even my civilization. Fuck them. I want my school to eventually be seen as a University of Virginia type of place, not a football school.

    Replies: @MC

    “I want my school to eventually be seen as a University of Virginia type of place, not a football school.”

    You know that Virginia plays major college football and basketball, right? And that its basketball team is currently ranked #2 in the country? Having major sports teams is part of the identify of UVA. If it didn’t, it would have a much different vibe.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @MC


    “I want my school to eventually be seen as a University of Virginia type of place, not a football school.”

    You know that Virginia plays major college football and basketball, right? And that its basketball team is currently ranked #2 in the country? Having major sports teams is part of the identify of UVA.

     

    You failed to mention that its baseball team is also ranked #2 in the country. And that its soccer team is about a million times better than any of its other teams. And you failed to mention what the school's founder -- Thomas Jefferson -- said:

    In 1785 Thomas Jefferson wrote to his fifteen-year-old nephew, Peter Carr, regarding what he considered the best form of exercise: "...I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."
     
    You've overlooked something significant about UVA's identity.
    , @ben tillman
    @MC


    You know that Virginia plays major college football and basketball, right?
     
    Look, until Shawn got hurt, UVA's football team featuring the Moore "brothers" (Shawn and Herman) was the best in the country in 1990. No doubt about it. Without the injury to Shawn Moore, UVA would have been national champions that year. But I just can't agree that that's UVA's "identity."

    UVA's going 0-29 against Clemson in football before 1990 and winning 1 ACC basketball championship in 61 years before 2014 should put this in perspective.

    , @Marty T
    @MC

    Not only that, but Virginia was in the college baseball finals last year and in the men's and women's soccer finals this year. And, their lacrosse teams are always good.

  176. @Anonymous
    @ben tillman

    Right, but don't jump to conclusions that girls don't tell, um, white lies.

    Replies: @ben tillman

    Right, but don’t jump to conclusions that girls don’t tell, um, white lies.

    Implying that I can’t tell when a woman I have known for 25 years is lying reflects poorly on you. And she wouldn’t be able to tell “white” lies in the sense you’re talking about. Her mother was Korean.

  177. @MC
    @anon

    "I want my school to eventually be seen as a University of Virginia type of place, not a football school."

    You know that Virginia plays major college football and basketball, right? And that its basketball team is currently ranked #2 in the country? Having major sports teams is part of the identify of UVA. If it didn't, it would have a much different vibe.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @ben tillman, @Marty T

    “I want my school to eventually be seen as a University of Virginia type of place, not a football school.”

    You know that Virginia plays major college football and basketball, right? And that its basketball team is currently ranked #2 in the country? Having major sports teams is part of the identify of UVA.

    You failed to mention that its baseball team is also ranked #2 in the country. And that its soccer team is about a million times better than any of its other teams. And you failed to mention what the school’s founder — Thomas Jefferson — said:

    In 1785 Thomas Jefferson wrote to his fifteen-year-old nephew, Peter Carr, regarding what he considered the best form of exercise: “…I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprize, and independance to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks.”

    You’ve overlooked something significant about UVA’s identity.

  178. @MC
    @anon

    "I want my school to eventually be seen as a University of Virginia type of place, not a football school."

    You know that Virginia plays major college football and basketball, right? And that its basketball team is currently ranked #2 in the country? Having major sports teams is part of the identify of UVA. If it didn't, it would have a much different vibe.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @ben tillman, @Marty T

    You know that Virginia plays major college football and basketball, right?

    Look, until Shawn got hurt, UVA’s football team featuring the Moore “brothers” (Shawn and Herman) was the best in the country in 1990. No doubt about it. Without the injury to Shawn Moore, UVA would have been national champions that year. But I just can’t agree that that’s UVA’s “identity.”

    UVA’s going 0-29 against Clemson in football before 1990 and winning 1 ACC basketball championship in 61 years before 2014 should put this in perspective.

  179. “I thought women never lied about rape!”

    Only when it’s about black males. When it’s about white men women are always to be believed, even (or especially) when they’re lying.

  180. UVA is a bit more mixed than you are suggesting. It has a football stadium that holds about 60,000, and regularly has 30,000 in the stands. So there is something a bit different about its college sports (or at least its football).

    joeyjoejoe

  181. @The most deplorable one
    Steve, you might be interested in this:

    Trading the Megaphone for the Gavel in Title IX Enforcement


    FACILITATING BIAS AGAINST AND DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT ON SEXUALLY STIGMATIZED MINORITIES

    From Emmett Till to the Central Park Five, American racial history is laced with vendetta-like scandals in which black men are accused of sexually assaulting white women that become reverse scandals when it is revealed that the accused men were not wrongdoers at all. No reader of To Kill a Mockingbird should be able to forget how this American classic convinces its readers that some of these accusations will be based on racially exploitative evasions of responsibility by white women who willingly had sex with black men and then disavowed it as rape.

     

    It seems that you are guilty of all the prejudices of those southern white racists! Haven't you read To KKKill a Mockingbird?

    But more importantly, isn't this a text-book illustration of the hierarchies of victim-hood? When two different victim classes are pitted against each other, out comes the victim-blaming rhetoric:


    But nothing so malign need be at work when black men show up in the dock: morning-after remorse can make sex that seemed like a good idea at the time look really alarming in retrospect;
     
    What? I thought women never lied about rape!

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @ben tillman

    The old-line SEC fans overlook the criminality of the players and pretend things are still what they were 50 years ago.

    And they weren’t all that great back then. For some reason, when I had Thanksgiving dinner on Long Island one year, one of the guests was a former UGA player who recounted how he used to raise hell with Fran Tarkenton. They didn’t get away with murder, but they got away with a lot of stuff that your typical Georgia cracker wouldn’t have.

    • Replies: @David In TN
    @ben tillman

    "Back then," the "hell raising" was getting drunk and bar fights. Now it's rape, robbery, assault, etc.

  182. “… trying to persuade his daughter to play geisha to visiting 18-year-old cornerbacks?”

    Just for the record, Geishas are neither prostitutes nor bimbos. They are highly intelligent, often highly educated women who provide pleasant companionship for men.

    Unlike western women, they do not regard it as degrading for them to be nice to men or as criminal for men to enjoy their company.

    Very few American college women could qualify to become Geishas even if they wanted to do it.

  183. i must be from some other world… the article’s content as well as most of the comments made me violently ill.

  184. @MC
    @anon

    "I want my school to eventually be seen as a University of Virginia type of place, not a football school."

    You know that Virginia plays major college football and basketball, right? And that its basketball team is currently ranked #2 in the country? Having major sports teams is part of the identify of UVA. If it didn't, it would have a much different vibe.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @ben tillman, @Marty T

    Not only that, but Virginia was in the college baseball finals last year and in the men’s and women’s soccer finals this year. And, their lacrosse teams are always good.

  185. @ben tillman
    @The most deplorable one


    The old-line SEC fans overlook the criminality of the players and pretend things are still what they were 50 years ago.
     
    And they weren't all that great back then. For some reason, when I had Thanksgiving dinner on Long Island one year, one of the guests was a former UGA player who recounted how he used to raise hell with Fran Tarkenton. They didn't get away with murder, but they got away with a lot of stuff that your typical Georgia cracker wouldn't have.

    Replies: @David In TN

    “Back then,” the “hell raising” was getting drunk and bar fights. Now it’s rape, robbery, assault, etc.

  186. many are good – 2 examples: Calhoun for college and JJ Watt for pros. And, a “bouncer” would still have had to be attached to a college program to play for pros…look at Butler (worked at Popeye’s, played junior college ball, and little-known state U…wound up with a very big play in the Super Bowl.

    The best players do have their innate skills come to focus sooner or later. I’ve always been skeptical of the idea of “anybody could do that.” My previous post just explains the process of the HS-College-Pro pipeline, nothing much else.

    And, certainly, there are “big guys,” who are recruited/playing on a team to just gum-up the middle – the whole point is to make it difficult for the quarterback and offense to have space and time, which, I’m sure you know. Yet, there are defensive players who are innately skilled in doing something just better, suddenly, that changes the course of the game.

    In some ways, you have to be crazy to play football since the evidence of brain deterioration is now a fact. Yet, the money is too big to ignore by many who have the size, speed, instincts, skills, focus that any sport requires. The best college players who become pros may not have many options career-wise, than to play football…try to get future jobs involving football somewhere, or if a former pro, a job in broadcasting. Believe, me, it is harder to get a job with ESPN than getting accepted at Harvard, or being recruited to play for an SEC/Big 10 school, for that matter.

  187. @GUI
    Girls want the bbc. Can't say I blame them

    Replies: @tokugawa, @Paul Walker Most beautiful man ever..., @Semi-employed White Guy

    Don’t sell the swc short, although it may be.

  188. Witness Julianna Martell, a student who was with the victim at a bar on the night of the alleged assault, testified that she helped recruiting over one summer….

    Good thing her uncle Charles is not alive anymore. He wouldn’t have agreed, I’m sure.

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