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iSteve commenter Gimeyio writes:

My subjective impression in early March 2020 was that mask wearing in Japan was up significantly from the March norm — normally, I’d expect something like 30-40% of people to be in masks either because they had colds/the flu or because of seasonal allergies. It was up to something like 95% or higher in Tokyo at the start of March, at least in Shinbashi, Ginza, Marunouchi, etc. Unmasked people out in public were quite rare. My impression now is that mask wearing is down, maybe 70-80%, but I suspect that’s partly due to mask shortages. It’s almost impossible to find masks.

In terms of why Japan has not experienced an Italy, I think it’s a combination of:

1. Masks — Japanese regularly mask up in this season, and it’s common courtesy to mask up if you’re experiencing symptoms. So whether it’s the flu or coronavirus, the rate of infection gets reduced.

2. Bows, not handshakes or kisses — self explanatory. Japanese are incredibly sensitive about “skinship” and there’s basically none of it if you aren’t very close to someone, or very drunk. Limits the opportunities for person to person transmission.

3. Everyone goes to the doctor for everything:

Up to late February, I think there were ongoing coordination issues, but at this point, the basic approach of the Japanese healthcare system is to rely on citizens to recognise when they are experiencing [symptoms], and then either go speak with a doctor, or call the consultation hotline. People who get picked up through that route then speak with a doctor who orders a test. There have been reports that doctors have ordered tests and not got them, but it’s not clear what the timing of those problems were — whether they are ongoing today, or were an artifact of the initial ramp up in testing capacity.

All of this depends, however, on people reliably going to the doctor when they are experiencing symptoms. And for the most part, Japanese do. You look at the brief case histories released to the public for newly identified coronavirus patients, and a lot of them are Day 1: had a fever, Day 2: saw a doctor, Day 3: suffered at home, Day 4: saw doctor again, got tested, Day 5: confirmed positive, checked into hospital. It’s not always that quick, but Japan seems to be doing a reasonably good job of picking up symptomatic cases not because of brilliant top-down bureaucratic coordination, but because people just visit the doctor whenever they feel a bit ill, and doctors have been given a procedure to funnel patients into coronavirus testing when it seems warranted.

There’s definitely exceptions — people who have been identified now, where there was a lag of a week or two between when they first experience symptoms and when they get tested, with days when they went into work normally or commuted by public transit in between, potentially infecting others. But they seem to be more the exception than the rule.

And lastly:

4. Luck. If Japan had a Christian group like Shincheonji out there with congregants infecting people en masse and hiding from medical treatment, well, their methodology has a hard time picking up people who don’t show up at the clinic in the first place, and they probably wouldn’t catch it in time to prevent a mass outbreak like what Korea experienced.

 
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  1. So basically, Japs try to get doctor’s excuses to get out of work?

    • Agree: Svevlad
    • Replies: @EldnahYm
  2. People in the US avoid going to the doctor like the plague, even with insurance, because the insurance will not pay, citing deductibles and copays, and at the doctor’s office they will often get slapped with additional bills for lab tests, and prescription of expensive unnecessary drugs.

    Hell, I took my dog to the vets the other day for a healthy dog check-up and vaccination boost and was billed $130 even after I turned down their request to do unnecessary bloodwork for an additional $50. The exact same bloodwork tests they requested would have cost no more than $10 for a human in the Dominican Republic on the same machines, so you know the markup is astronomical.

    To be fair, there is a excellent Rural Health Clinic in my town, where you can go and be seen for a flat $50 without insurance, and that is where I usually go as it is cheaper than using the insurance and paying copays, but not everyone has access to these clinics. The strep throat test or urinalysis is included in the price of admission.

  3. George says:

    Maybe they are not panicking like the hysterical White-man countries.

    • Replies: @HA
    , @nsa
  4. Yellow race is better in zombificatory situations. Here, they have, thanks to their racial-cultural heritage, uncanny advantage over whites & others.

    On the other hand, they don’t have, as a group, a trait that propelled West to greatness: creative chaos & individualism. Just, in cases of pandemic explosions & mass hysteria- they’re inherently better.

    • LOL: Corvinus
    • Replies: @Hemid
    , @The Alarmist
    , @J.Ross
  5. Mr. Anon says:

    Gavin Newsom mentions Martial Law for California:

    https://www.fox5ny.com/news/california-preparing-for-worst-case-scenarios

    A poster in a recent thread had what I thought was a good comment – he mentioned that there is an element of virtue signaling in the response to COVID-19, with various local governments trying to one-up one another.

    We are closing all the bars and restaurants!

    Oh yeah? We’ll, we’re telling everyone to stay indoors!

    That’s nothing! We’re telling all our residents to hide in their closets and hold their breath for the next two weeks!

    • Agree: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @anon
    , @fish
  6. Yngvar says:

    Greetings from sunny Norway!

    Well, we are following this and it’s not working right now. The “3. Everyone goes to the doctor for everything” -advice have been banned for a couple of weeks already. We don’t need anymore of doctors sick or quarantined.

    I never knew we had that many enabling laws, enforced, a relic of the fifties scare of Soviet Union.

    The government have asked the Parliament for extended power, basically gutting human rights for the time being. Only half of our elected can meet, due to corona and all. Thankfully we have a conservative government, the new licence will not be abused.

  7. Tiny Duck says:

    ONce again is it white people who are spreading diseases. The Asaians and other People of COlor have effectively contained the coronavirus but once again it is the europeans who are spreading death and destruction.

    Looks like thousands of years of murder and colonization were not enough!

    Just look at twitter and see that People of Color AGREE with me that white people are to blame

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @fish
  8. When I was in japan you had to pay up front and then about 90% would be refunded in about a month.

  9. There’s hasn’t been toilet paper on the shelves around here in almost a week. So I’ve been buying the masks and using them to wipe my ass. I guess our priorities are different.

    At the moment I’m laid off without pay because of this panic. Not sure why your fear of death supersedes my need to make a living.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    , @MKP
  10. hackberry says:

    There is ONE common denominator between JP, KR, TW,SG,HK and CN (at least after initial outbreak), and thats wearing masks in public.

  11. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:

    Bruce Charlton says ventilator patients have near 100% death rate.

    Therefore no scrambling for them is needed, because they don’t work.

    Real data on this hypothesis is needed right away.

    • Replies: @res
    , @anonymous
  12. Thomas says:

    Of course Japanese mask up. They’re the country that gave us ninjas!

    • LOL: fish
  13. 5. Not a lot of Chinese living in Japan (e.g. which does account for Northern Italy’s initial outbreak).

  14. fnn says:

    Major outbreak in Louisiana, current stats are 8 deaths, 347 confirmed cases, 805 people tested . Current NOLA weather is 76F, 83% humidity.

  15. One thing Japan doesn’t have to worry about is during a health crisis having their inner city youth shooting each other up:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8127379/Baltimore-Mayor-begs-residents-stop-gun-violence-hospitals-clear-coronavirus.html

    I made a prediction last week on Facebook that Trump would have to declare martial law in the ghettos in order to free up hospital beds for Wuflu patients by keeping ghetto youth from shooting each other up. I was met by outrage of course but it looks like things could head in that direction.

  16. Jack D says:

    Whatever it is that the Japanese are doing right is unlikely to be portable to American culture just because the cultures are so different. We are not going to get Americans to bow instead of shaking hands. We are not going to (even if the authorities weren’t active discouraging it) get every American to wear a mask in public. We are not going to get every American to run to the doctor at the first sign of a cough when so many Americans don’t have health insurance and even when they do it doesn’t pay for most things.

    In some ways the Japanese are a modern, Westernized people. They drive cars (albeit on the wrong side of the street) and ride in planes and trains (nicer trains than we have). The attend university and have scientists and engineers, etc. But in many ways they have retained their essential Japanese-ness which makes them distinct, not just from Americans but even from other Asians.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @anonymous
    , @Corn
  17. If Japan had a Christian group…

    Harry Truman took care of Japan’s Christians for them:

    Urakami Cathedral Before and After

    10,000 Christians out of 15,000 lost their lives

    This (pre-1945) looks like serious sex segregation:

  18. @Jonathan Mason

    Hell, I took my dog to the vets the other day for a healthy dog check-up and vaccination boost and was billed $130

    Only a Brit would whine about spending $130 for a dog checkup & vaccines. You really are a miserly piece of trash. $50 for bloodwork is a bargain — but muh Dominican Republic! How nice that you’re darkening the doors of our health clinics.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  19. Remember the Apollo 13 movie showing the story of engineers in Houston inventing MacGyver-style jury-rigged contraptions for the astronauts to purify their air and not suffocate? They used straws, hoses and random things for inventions the astronauts in space could build out of items on-board.

    Similarly, can’t we figure out the best way to make homemade masks using available parts/craft items the US has in stock? Preferably it would use components we have a lot of and that we manufacture domestically – important because international trade is not as certain anymore. It would preferably be easy to make from common places like Home Depot or Hobby Lobby. Or is it hard to get much better than a bandana around your face until you get to real manufactured masks? I am thinking that if a bunch of talented people make designs and prototypes, then some brave experts could help pick the best ones. One problem is too many people have it ingrained in their minds already that masks don’t work. Many consider it near fake news to say otherwise. One Op-Ed in the New York Times may not change much unless it is followed up by more media dissent, no matter how cogent the arguments were. There is also the question of what the FDA would have to say about this project.

    It would be a lot better if our captains of industry stepped up and figured this out, but is there any evidence of that imminently happening? We needed them weeks ago and unfortunately now they have a mainstream consensus excuse. Could an effort like this at least help shame them into acting?

    • Replies: @Poco
  20. @Jack D

    In some ways the Japanese are a modern, Westernized people. They drive cars…

    Africans drive cars. Abos drive cars. Afghans drive cars.

    The Japanese make cars.

    • Replies: @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
  21. Of the 2500 or so people in Italy whose deaths have been attributed to the Wuhan virus, 99% are reported to have already been sick with one or more other illnesses.

    25% were already sick with one other illness; another 25% with two others; and 48.5% with three.

    Source: Bloomberg News on March 18.

    And the average age of these people, as reported as recently as a few days ago, is 81.6 years.

  22. anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:

    Doesn’t a remarkable lack of diversity help generate some powerful luck, if that culture, luckily doesn’t engage in habitual activity that propagates bat-perfected viruses?

    And if that’s true, isn’t unchecked diversity a death sentence for the host country?

    And if that’s true, isn’t unchecked diversity and the people who willfully or passively propagate it… evil?

    • Replies: @Kim
  23. GSR says:

    Italy is a peculiar situation.

    Older population.

    Common to have multiple generations living in the same household. Younger people contracting the virus and spreading it to their parents and grandparents.

    Italy has hundreds of thousands of “cheap labor” Chinese working in the fashion industry in northern Italy (Milan). And many of those Chinese are from Wuhan.

    South Korea

    Small country. Homogeneous population.

    Nearly half the population live in one city – Seoul.

    Much easier to “lock down” the country.

    • Agree: Mark G.
  24. Re Mask alternatives: A friend in the Semi-conductor industry wrote me this::

    “Short opinion: I’d cover your face with whatever you’ve got. Best thing would be a cholo bandana because it will look like you’re here to rob the place [/sarcasm]. Whatever you wear, focus on the seal. You’re more likely to get contaminated through your eyes, so wear safety glasses at a minimum.

    Long opinion: Respiratory protection has a lot of factors for any contaminate. The first thing the consider is the seal on your face. You can use and N95, half face or full face respirator and it’s protection is greatly reduced the if there is not a proper fit. I stress this with an emergency response team as the first priority. No shave? Don’t even try.

    Got a good seal? Now you can consider filtration…. Particle size is the key concept here. N95 filter if I recall correctly is 95% effective on 0.3 micron particles, N99 is 99% (essentially a HEPA).
    Why is 0.3 micron of concern? In short, smaller than 0.3, the particle will likely be exhaled without consequence. IE: doesn’t attach to your lung.

    Does a t-shirt wrapped around your face or your 90’s cholo bandana rate as good as a HEPA? Probably not. But here’s why I think these items might still help.

    I’ll digress a bit on this one… In water treatment, when targeting bacteria/viruses, chlorination is the most common sanitation method. When treating, we do not start with chlorination, we prioritize solids removal because those little bugs like to hide in the solids from the chlorine. Think of these solids like the large particles in a sneeze or cough of someone that has any sort of illness. The bigger particle, the higher chance it has a contaminant.

    If you can narrow the window of particle sizes that you breathe the better off you are. Let’s say a T-shirt wrapped around your face filters 5 microns or greater, and anything less than 0.3 microns cannot attach to the lung, you’ve decreased the window to a small range.

    Take this as just a guy with thoughts. No citations, just personal experience/training… EHS management in the semiconductor industry”.

  25. Jasper321 says:

    The Japanese are doing great work in tentacle and bukkake film arenas.

  26. anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    In some ways the Japanese are a modern, Westernized people.

    A relative of mine was an executive for Boeing, when they decided to bring in Japanese engineers. Boeing had them working together in groups.

    First thing he found remarkable was when he asked them to make up plans for a manufacturing plant/village, and he asked them to make up plans for the dimensions of the buildings, small park, etc.

    A few days later, they called him for a meeting. He goes to the conference room, and they had made a fairly large-scale model of the plant, with fake grass, walkways, the works. He was expecting to look at blueprints. They apologized for the “rough model” due to time constraints. He said he felt like Marty McFly, when Doc made a quick model of the entire town center.

    Except the Japanese had it at perfect mathematical scale.

    The only other odd thing he noted was around 2 pm, all the Japanese engineers seemed to disappear. He couldn’t figure out why everyone was not available at 2 pm. Turned out they all went to the company gym together at that time, to work out. He told them they can’t work out in the middle of the day on company time. They all seemed completely puzzled that it was an issue, but complied.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    , @Jack D
    , @SOL
  27. Happy Birthday Vera Lynn – Born March 20, 2017: 103 years old!

    • Replies: @duncsbaby
  28. RonaldB says:

    Shortage of masks:

    If you have a paper towel, you have a mask. Masks are mainly to protect other people.

  29. A modest proposal: A lot of people – mostly elderly but not only – don’t know how to use the Internet very well. All stores accepting online orders should let people make orders by calling in for the duration of the crisis. Elderly singles or couples living alone can’t fully socially distance themselves safe inside if they have to go to the store. Even if stores charge a bit more for it and have to hire more call center people – this is very important.

  30. @Reg Cæsar

    The way America USED to do.

    • Replies: @anon
  31. All according to the rules laid down in the Holy Bib – ahh in Heiner Rindermann’s book Cognitive Capitlalism: Higher than average IQ*** = better than average solutions.

    (I’d add: Jpan is culturally prepared to act reasonable collectively).

    *** The first post of James Thompson at his Psychological Commenter blog here on the unz review about Corona started with this thesis: Co-19 counter-measures could be read as a worldwide IQ test.

  32. 128 says:
    @Jonathan Silber

    How many middle aged or 30s people in America have obesity, high blood pressure, and type 2 diabetes at the same time?

  33. El Dato says:
    @Tiny Duck

    I think a few hundred years of the plague and other ultrakill/debilitating nasties followed by vaccine inventions have given us the right to spread some death and destruction, no?

    Looks like thousands of years of murder and colonization were not enough!

    Wait until the hybrid WhiteNazi/Tamerlan/ShakaZulu Übermensch currently being perfected in supremacist underground labs is released. Africa will be a smokin’ crater.

    Meanwhile, this is what you get when you don’t have shotguns for this kind of corona deal:

    ‘Soul-destroying’: UK foodbank broken into and ‘ransacked’ as Covid-19 outbreak provokes panic over supplies

  34. anon[193] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Gavin Newsom mentions Martial Law for California:

    “Martial law” in Cali? Lol @ Gavin’s LARPing.

    How long before he shows up wearing the latest in Hugo Boss fashion?

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  35. El Dato says:
    @anonymous

    > Boeing
    > He told them they can’t work out in the middle of the day on company time.

    Even ultra-shitty companies on government dripfeed need to keep the peasants in line.

  36. Anon[675] • Disclaimer says:

    Japanese women go to the doctor for the slightest thing, but men ignore minor symptoms. This is an exaggerated version of what happens even in the U.S. Sometimes men wait too late to see the doctor about something real, but for the most part women have nothing wrong with them and are prescribed what amount to placeboes: various pills, powders, plasters, and gargles. Women do go to the doctor for colds, whose symptoms may resemble Wuflu.

  37. Jack D says:
    @anonymous

    My late FIL was the president of a truck trailer manufacturer (although in the days when corporate executives did not make as much as they make now). Back in the ’80s at the height of the “Japanese are going to take over the world” boom, a delegation from a Japanese manufacturer came to visit his plant – I forget if they were interested in buying the company or wanted to make stuff for them or what. Of course he told them “no cameras” as is customary on such tours.

    The next day, when they sat down at a meeting to talk business, the Japanese delegation unrolled a set of (accurate looking and fairly detailed) blueprints for his plant that they had drawn overnight and started asking questions – what does this machine over here do, etc.? It’s not clear to me whether they were doing this sincerely or to mess with his head or both. It turned out that each member of the delegation had been assigned to focus on one sector of the plant and to memorize as much detail as possible about his assigned sector (which was probably in his field of specialty) and then as soon as they got back to their hotel they each wrote down what they had memorized and collaborated in order to draw the set of plans.

    • Replies: @128
  38. 128 says:
    @Jack D

    How come pretty much the only Jap auto manufacturers who made it out of the 90s in one piece were Toyota and Honda? Mitsubishi, Nissan, and Mazda went belly up and had to be bought out by foreigners.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  39. 128 says:

    As an aside, what possible benefit could Unz get from promoting the coronavirus is a Jewish hoax angle?

  40. @Bragadocious

    $50 for bloodwork is a bargain

    $50 for bloodwork for a perfectly healthy dog is no bargain, because it is superfluous. I never had any bloodwork on myself for the first 43 years of my life, except for the heel test they give you at birth for PKU, and only maybe 2 times after that. No dog anyone in my family has ever owned has ever had bloodwork. We just give them the healthy nutritious food that is advertised on TV and a daily game of fetch, then they run for years without maintenance.

    Get real!

    Anyway, my point was that if it costs over $100 for even a dog check-up, there are a lot of humans who cannot easily afford that much just to see if what seems to be a minor ailment is really the deadly disease. And that is not even counting the loss of pay for not working to go and sit in a doctor’s office until 11:30 waiting to be seen for your 9:30 appointment and losing half a day’s pay, or being late to pick up your child from school, etc, etc.

    That is why people in the US avoid doctors like the plague.

  41. epebble says:

    This episode shows we may not be knowing a lot about the virus yet: Coronavirus Ravages 7 Members of a Single Family, Killing 3

    Also, much higher (than thought before) fraction of younger patients are critical (on ventilator).

    https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-ravages-7-members-single-125000381.html?ncid=facebook_yahoonewsf_akfmevaatca

  42. @Jonathan Mason

    Jonathan Mason, your vivid description of US – middle class, I think – everyday life sounds raw like – excuse me – sushi.

    (If I tell such iSteve stories to my fellow Germans of all classes, they shy away from me as if I had the plague – don’t even talk about such Wild-West style social norms to me – that is the attitude I run into if I tell such sories as yours above time and time again.

  43. Hemid says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I used to work there quite a bit and came away with the impression that the Japanese are in the top tier of weirdos-per-capita, along with Scandinavians, A. Jews, and redneck-Americans.

    We get the wrong impression because our non-food cultural exchange with Japan (as with almost everywhere) has ended. Last century there were Japanese artists, musicians, writers, etc., who were well-known in America. Now all we get from them is a few cartoons and b-reel of that one crowded intersection.

    What remains of what they learned from us, what’s truly American in Japan, is just nostalgically innocent Christmas commercials—so American they’re almost Canadian—and bands that sound like “Midwest emo” (and related punk-derived music-snob stuff) from almost thirty years ago.

    We were close for a while, but I don’t think we understand each other anymore. The Grudge was our last date.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  44. phdjkl says:

    Simpler explanation for Italy, especially northern Italy with the highest level of Chinese immigrants:
    One commenter at another site stated, “I wonder how much of this could have been avoided if Italian garment manufacturers hadn’t imported nearly a half a million Chinese laborers so they could pay slave wages and still slap that coveted ‘Made in Italy’ label on their products?” Another added, “Pre-restrictions, [Italy had] 10 flights a day at least (3000 people) probably more given that it was Chinese New Year. The Wuhan area was a particularly popular source of cheap labor… “

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @utu
  45. Taiwan’s existence as an independent nation is literally due to US support. Why in the world can’t we convince them to sell us a ton of masks?

  46. @Jonathan Silber

    “Of the 2500 or so people in Italy whose deaths have been attributed to the Wuhan virus, 99% are reported to have already been sick with one or more other illnesses.”

    If your lungs are diseased, self-quarantine please,
    If your health is OK, go on ’bout your day.

    There, I solved CoronaHoax in one simple rhyming couplet.

    You’re welcome, my doooomzzz.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  47. Sad story from NJ:

    Coronavirus Ravages 7 Members of a Single Family, Killing 3

    The matriarch of the large New Jersey family died Wednesday night without ever knowing that her two oldest children had died before her.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/nyregion/new-jersey-family-coronavirus.html

    It also raises further questions.

    1) Do Italians have some genetic susceptibility that has been overlooked?

    2) Looking at the photo this mother and her children do not look particularly healthy. I’d bet several are heavy smokers and drinkers, and at least a few have diabetes.

    3) Related to #2, why no discussion of any pre-existing conditions with these folks? Or are the NYT such a bunch of snowflakes that they can’t hurt the fee-fees of anyone based on any difference whatsoever?

  48. phdjkl says:

    Ann Coulter provides a simpler explanation of Italy: “Lombardy is the Italian region most devastated by the Wuhan virus. As far back as 2003, a Library of Congress report cited Lombardy as having the highest concentration of Chinese immigrants in Italy. Our media refuses to tell us this fact today—or any day.”

  49. @The Wild Geese Howard

    Oops, missed this throwaway line in the NYT story I just posted:

    “They’re young and they don’t have any underlying conditions,” Ms. Paradiso Fodera said.

    55 years old is young? The eldest son, who passed away, with grey hair is young?

    Heck, I must be a toddler since I’m barely on the wrong side of 40!

    I highly doubt the veracity of the, “no underlying conditions, ” claim. Looking at the photo again I’d bet there are at least two or three people in it on heart or blood-pressure medication in addition to the probable conditions I mentioned above.

  50. fish says:
    @Mr. Anon

    Gavin Newsom mentions Martial Law for California:

    I am heartened that California is simply too inept to pull it off successfully! Further…..that would almost certainly scuttle Pretty, Pretty Gavins aspirations of high office!

    Probably a fair trade though!

  51. J.Ross says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Did you get laid off for earlier Democrat administration pandemics which killed far more people?

  52. res says:
    @Anonymous

    Can you link to where he said that? I am not seeing it on his blog.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  53. Svevlad says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    It seems like Anglos simply can’t get their healthcare to work. What’s so hard? Bismarck did it well. Oh wait, corporations will go ooga booga if they have to deduct a tiny percentage of their employees wages! How sad!

  54. @Steve

    From Reuters

    Prince Albert of Monaco tests positive for Covid-19

  55. Anonymous[341] • Disclaimer says:

    Japanese public schools are extending their spring recess through March and DoDEA schools at US Forces bases in Japan and Okinawa are now closed until April 13, even though there have been no cases of the Corona virus among students or staff. Here’s the letter parents got announcing the closure. The house apes are ecstatic!

  56. anon[135] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    The way America USED to do.

    Blackpilling or trolling? Either way just plain dumb.

    The nonexistent US auto industry in agreement with the nonexistent UAW is temporarily shutting down the nonexistent automotive assembly lines.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/18/business/gm-ford-automakers-us-shut-down/index.html

  57. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @res

    The Global establishment really do ….

    In comments—

    Apparently *None* of those who went onto ITU/ ventilators (in disease ‘epicentre’ Cremona, nr Milan, Lombardy – at least) has survived.

    https://www.channel4.com/news/inside-one-intensive-care-team-fighting-coronavirus-in-cremona-italy

    My point is that what is presented as bad news is actually good news.

    This means that ITU/ ventilation is completely ineffective, therefore *unneccessary*.

  58. @Jonathan Silber

    Exactly that damn old folks home in WA was a fucking hospice. There need to be extreme consequences for a lot of people when this ends up killing less than 10K- which is the number of dead from swine flu when Obama deigned to mention it.

  59. You know what you were saying about Jet-setters as plague vectors?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/19/uruguay-coronavirus-party-guest-argentina

    Half Uruguay’s coronavirus cases traced to a single guest at a society party
    Covid-19 struck 44 guests at a glamorous wedding after a designer attended despite having had a fever and just arriving from Spain

  60. UK says:

    Did you all hear about how the US athletes did terribly at the Military Games in Wuhan? It must be due to them being special ops releasing pointless viruses all over the place. What’s even more interesting is that they did even worse in 2015! They must have been releasing even more viruses then…

    • Replies: @fish
  61. anonymous[186] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    Bruce Charlton says ventilator patients have near 100% death rate.

    Therefore no scrambling for them is needed, because they don’t work.

    Real data on this hypothesis is needed right away.

    Give a citation or don’t post this shit, blockhead.

    • Agree: Smithsonian_6
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  62. Another clue from the data:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/18/people-blood-type-may-greater-risk-coronavirus-say-scientists/

    Researchers in China have found that people with blood type A seem to be more vulnerable to infection from the coronavirus.

    Scientists looked at blood group patterns of more than 2,000 people who had been diagnosed with the virus and hospitalised.

    They found that those with blood type A were more vulnerable to contracting the disease and tended to develop more severe symptoms, while those with blood type O had a “significantly lower risk” of getting the disease.

    Not peer reviewed yet, so cum grano salis.

  63. epebble says:
    @Jonathan Silber

    I think it is difficult to have life as usual when you read things like:

    There is little time for ceremony in hard-hit cities such as Bergamo, northeast of Milan, where the mortuaries are full and the crematorium is working around the clock, said Giacomo Angeloni, a local official in charge of cemeteries.

    The Italian army sent 50 troops and 15 trucks to Bergamo on Wednesday to take bodies to less overwhelmed provinces.

    The authorities have hired new people to dig graves, said a manager at Tehran’s Behesht-e Zahra cemetery. “We work day and night,” he said. “I have never seen such a sad situation. There are no funerals.”

    Most corpses arrive by truck and are buried without the ritual washing that Islam dictates, he said.

    She spoke of the “real torture” felt by families who watched sick relatives taken away to hospital and never saw them again

    https://news.trust.org/item/20200319112258-bkfu7

  64. Anonymous[367] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sam Haysom

    Was 12K+

    • Replies: @Sam Haysom
  65. @Jonathan Mason

    At least we visit the dentist. Unlike some people.

    Resembles Derek Smalls if he really let his teeth go.

  66. TG says:

    My daughter spent a bit of time in rural Japan teaching English, and I was jealous of the health system.

    If she got sick, she just went to the local clinic, paid like $5 US equivalent, got seen, over and done.

    I have allegedly top-tier insurance (blue cross blue shield), and even I am afraid to see a doctor: it’s like playing Russian Roulette, I don’t really know what it’s going to cost me until months after the visit. And there is no way to tell in advance if they are going to use out-of-network physicians.

    And what do you make of all of our elected ‘representatives’ defending ‘surprise medical billing’? I mean, if they told you up front that that a given visit was going to cost an extra $2,000 (or whatever), obviously you’d go somewhere else – which is why it simply must be a ‘surprise.’ This is legal piracy, but our elites defend this as ‘letting people have the freedom to choose their physicians.’

    I mean really: not having a choice about having an out-of-network provider involved in your treatment, and that’s giving you a choice? Really? What does not being able to know what something is going to cost have anything to do with a free market?

    We hear that ‘socialized’ medicine in places like Japan is bad, because people sometimes have to wait to see a specialist. Whereas in the United States, people can’t see a specialist at all because they are afraid of the costs! A clear proof of the superiority of ‘capitalism’ .

    The main deal is that the elites in Japan have at least some concern about the nation as a whole, and ours could care less.

    • Replies: @Charles Erwin Wilson
  67. HA says:
    @George

    “Maybe they are not panicking like the hysterical White-man countries.”

    Are you kidding? They were panicking from the get-go (actually, earlier — the protocols were developed in wake of the SARS and MERS epidemics). In fact, it’s the measures that they employed to combat the virus that freedom-loving White-man countries would panic against:

    In a paper this month in the Journal of the American Medical Association, or JAMA, Wang…listed 124 actions that Taiwan’s authorities took starting in December when they sensed the looming threat — and the rest of the world seemed to be looking the other way.

    Taiwan quickly launched and updated emergency measures… Taiwan activated a response command center, sent a fact-finding team to China, imposed swift travel bans and quarantines. It even restricted the export of face masks.

    Note that that whole “what’s the big deal — it’s just a bad case of the flu!” vibe was noticeably absent, except in Wuhan, which is presumably why the authorities there did next to nothing — in fact, a key component of their strategies seems to have been “don’t believe the Chinese authorities about anything”. Korea used social apps to track the movements of those who might have spread the contagion.

    Legislation enacted since then gave the government authority to collect mobile phone, credit card, and other data from those who test positive to reconstruct their recent whereabouts. That information, stripped of personal identifiers, is shared on social media apps that allow others to determine whether they may have crossed paths with an infected person.

    You don’t think that kind of response would be labelled as panic-driven over-reaction?

  68. Twinkie says:

    I don’t think Japan has tested as extensively as its neighbor South Korea has.

    I think a more useful comparison is to examine fatality per infected and fatality per 100,000 of population at the same stages of the pandemic.

    • Replies: @Gimeiyo
  69. (1) hydroxychloroquine

    (2) friggin’ buy stocks

  70. Me says:

    I know the answer!

    It’s the Finnish Sauna!

    I’m telling you, Nordic Countries…people like using the Sauna. And once you start using a Sauna…you never get the flu again.

    • Replies: @Corn
  71. Anon[713] • Disclaimer says:

    Report that 8.3% of Italy’s medical personnel are sick with Covid-19. What’s more, this is twice the percentage of sick medical personnel that China had, which is an ominous sign. It’s not just lack of respirators that’s the problem, it’s lack of doctors and nurses when the big wave hits. “It came as Italy recorded a record 4,207 infections and 475 new deaths from the virus yesterday, squashing hopes that the unprecedented national lockdown was beginning to slow the spread of the pathogen.”

    So, no slowdown. Doesn’t look good for the rest of Italy.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8129499/amp/More-2-600-medical-workers-infected-coronavirus-Italy.html?__twitter_impression=true

  72. EldnahYm says:
    @Redneck farmer

    No, Northeast Asians are just health obsessed. They like to go to the doctor for any minor thing. Gimeyio is suggesting that might be an advantage for this particular epidemic.

  73. Hodag says:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/nyregion/nyc-schools-numbers-black-students-diversity-specialized.html?action=click&module=Latest&pgtype=Homepage

    10 black kids got into Stuyvesant this year. Despite a $1 million test prep program for blacks and Latinos.

    Water remains wet.

  74. @Sam Haysom

    “There need to be extreme consequences for a lot of people when this ends up killing less than 10K.”

    When the final American death toll comes in sub 1,000, Democratic governors will indulge in a public orgy of self-congratulation that Heroic Efforts to annihilate their economies allowed them to defeat Trump in 2020 — oh wait, um, heroic efforts to combat corona-chan were successful and a years-long Depression was, sadly, necessary…… to defeat Trump.

    For thinking, rational people like us, a sub-thousand death toll confirms corona-chan was a hoax.

    Everybody wins! Oh, wait, except for the millions of Americans economically ruined by CoronaHoax.

    • Agree: MikeatMikedotMike
    • Replies: @epebble
  75. nsa says:
    @George

    “maybe they are not panicking like hysterical white man countries”
    Hey, pal…..if you were Trumpie, you would have panicked too. Come October / November, you want moms in N95 masks standing outside the White House gates chanting “Trump lied so granny died” in front of the cable TV cameras?

  76. Altai says:

    Another example of the virus spread being the work of the rich. Ireland reports a massive increase of cases exactly coinciding with people coming back from Cheltenham. Much controversy was made about it not being cancelled this year. The rich seemed to be uninterested in curtailing their fun to avoid massive crowds. I couldn’t see much of a dip in numbers, some good shots of the main stand here.

    It could also be foreign tourists who still came over the week before St. Patrick’s day.

  77. Gimeiyo says:
    @Twinkie

    Japan is, in theory, at about the same stage of the pandemic as Korea is, since they both had similar numbers in late January. But then Korea discovered they had completely lost visibility into the community spread with the discovery of the “super spreader” in February. At that point, testing of her contacts and contacts of other people connected with the church uncovered a significant number of infected that had previously gone undetected and Korean health authorities had to scramble to trace and test all the congregants and the congregants’ contacts fast enough to head off the spread — hence the explosion in testing. It hasn’t been complete, because they continue to find large, new clusters, but they’ve got visibility into the spread again, and are picking up cases reasonably timely, before they can get too large.

    Japan had the good fortune not to have a church full of people infecting each other and not seeking medical assistance. They have tested less so their case fatality rate is significantly higher than Korea (although I wonder whether Korea’s denominator is inflated due to asymptomatic false positives, given how many people they tested — against 300,000 tests, an error rate of 1% would get you 3,000 false positives). On a population basis, Japan’s death rate is rather lower, about 0.3/million vs 2/million. And we aren’t seeing (yet) the hospitals get overwhelmed in the way they were in Daegu (although there was a smaller surge in Hokkaido, when a big cluster was identified), so they don’t seem to be missing a huge hidden population of infections.

    Small differences early on led to big differences later.

    • Replies: @duh
    , @anonguy
    , @Chrisnonymous
  78. @Jonathan Mason

    People in the US avoid going to the doctor like the plague

    No pun intended?

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  79. peterike says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    That is why people in the US avoid doctors like the plague.

    And yet there is always — always — a long wait at the doctor. And for some it takes months to even get an appointment. And the walk-in clinics have been popping up everywhere. I guess we have Yogi Berra doctors: nobody goes to them, because they’re too busy.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
  80. epebble says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    What if, instead, it turns out to be 10,000? 100,000? What changes do you expect?

  81. @Bardon Kaldian

    On the other hand, they don’t have, as a group, a trait that propelled West to greatness: creative chaos & individualism.

    And yet they still managed to infect the West with things like Tamagotchi, Pokémon, and Hello Kitty.

    • Replies: @Anon
  82. @phdjkl

    Italy also has lots of tourists from China, lots of business travelers who visit China, and some Chinese students.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
  83. duh says:
    @Gimeiyo

    In Italy apparently a few doctors at one hospital had the coronavirus for weeks before being diagnosed. An unlucky happenstance that maybe why Italy is weeks ahead of other countries.
    If that nursing home in WA was a hospital the spread might have been worse due to the mobility of the clients.

  84. Barnard says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    They may not have had any diagnosed underlying conditions because they didn’t get regular medical checkups. One story I read mentioned a 21 year old who died in Europe had undiagnosed leukemia.

  85. @anon

    “Martial law” in Cali? Lol @ Gavin’s LARPing.

    Granted, they might be out of practise since Rodney King, but Gavin is LAPDing.

    • Replies: @anon
  86. fish says:
    @Tiny Duck

    Ohs Tinys….Twitter is for Wankers…..but you knew that!

    • Replies: @eastkekiisawhiteguy
  87. fish says:
    @UK

    What’s even more interesting is that they did even worse in 2015! They must have been releasing even more viruses then…

    Well they’re so heavy…the viruses I mean!

  88. utu says:
    @phdjkl

    Canada has 5 times more Chinese than Italy but 62 times less infection cases and 539 times less fatalities than Italy (March 16). Do Canadian Chinese travel to China? They are affluent so certainly they do. Does Canada have a better medical system than Italy? Maybe but infant mortality in Canada (4.50) is higher than in Italy (3.30).

    Take for example the area of Prato (in Tuscany near Florence) which has the highest density of Chinese population in Italy. Wiki lists 11,882 (6.32%) for Prato while the highest absolute number is Milan 18,918 (1.43%). The wiki numbers are probably outdated as most likely they do not include illegal residents. Yet, when Italy (mostly Lombardy) on March 11 had 12,246 cases Prato had only 21 cases.

    Most of Chinese in Italy are from Zhejiang province that was not hit that hard as Hubei. On Feb 9 when total cases in China (Hubei province) were already 40,000 Zhejiang reported only 1,000. The only new cases in Zhejiang now are from people returning from Italy.

    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-03/03/c_138838575.htm
    East China’s Zhejiang Province reported seven new confirmed cases of novel coronavirus infection on Monday, all of which are imported cases from people returning from Italy, local authorities said Tuesday.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Reg Cæsar
  89. @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    There, I solved CoronaHoax in one simple rhyming couplet.

    You only have one rhyme.

    “Don’t make an assonance of yourself”– Leo Robin

    • Replies: @Odin
  90. @utu

    How many Chinese tourists visit Italy each year? How many Chinese businessmen visit Italy and how many Italian businessmen visit China?

    • Replies: @utu
  91. Anon[768] • Disclaimer says:

    Two days ago, on March 17, we had around 7,700 cases. Today on the 19th, we have 13K+.

    On March 12, Italy had 12K cases, and now they have 41K cases 1 week later (the 19th).
    On Feb 1, China had around 11K cases, and they went to 40K cases by Feb 9th, or 8 days later.

    We’re beginning that time period when we’re going to see a substantial climb. We’re going to be starting this week what Italy had last week. We should have around 40K cases in the next 7 days.

  92. @epebble

    “What if, instead, it turns out to be 10,000? 100,000? What changes do you expect?”

    Accelerated and increased economic destruction by Democratic governors accompanied by Democratic pleas that Republican governors also annihilate their economies. I expect some Repub governors to fold and impoverish their citizens as well, and Democrats will reward them with “Too little too late, racist!”

    Wiser Repub governors will observe that kungflu body counts are not correlated with the Democratic Party’s willful and malicious economic destruction – they will preserve the Trump Miracle economy by saying hell no. Democrats will reward them with “Blood is on your hands, racist!”

    Democratic loathing of our President is so pathologically high that Democratic leaders are happy to ruin the lives of fellow Democratic voters if they think it will end the Trump presidency.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  93. anon[137] • Disclaimer says:
    @Smithsonian_2

    Differences in infection rates between blood types is plausible. Needs much more data and testing for sure.

    But wait till the Japanese get hold of this! Even now they have a “blood-type personality” thing that looks a lot like astrology.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @Twinkie
  94. vhrm says:
    @The Wild Geese Howard

    A mother and her two eldest children sounds different in light of the first line of the article:

    Grace Fusco — mother of 11, grandmother of 27…

    Also, as you suggested, all but maybe 1 or 2 among she and her kids are obese in that picture.

    It’s still sad, but not worse than many a car accident story.

  95. J.Ross says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Japanese are pretty Western by Asian standards on those points. Turkic peoples are also more individualistic.
    What enabled Western greatness was not the creative chaos itself but the Mancur Olsen style lack of a rock to prevent the grass from growing. Chinese (or their government) freely choose harmonious stagnation over unstable creativity.

    • Replies: @Anon
  96. J.Ross says:
    @Je Suis Omar Mateen

    This, but: where do Democratic governors govern?
    >states dominated by big lawless cities
    >states harboring filthy, quarantine-ignoring “refugees”
    >states with high-risk-aged “I got mine” retirees
    >states where the government seeks tyranny but is hamstrung by ridiculous identity gibberish, seen in the problem of bathhouse closing
    So they are definitely hoping to exploit panic and wreck the economy for politics, and they should be viciously punished for that, but they also collect risk factors.

  97. anon[137] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    Granted, they might be out of practise since Rodney King, but Gavin is LAPDing.

    Cali is a big state, geographically LA is just a little part of it. People north of Shasta might call his bluff. Parts of Oregon are already talking about joining Idaho. Why not just form “Greater Jefferson”?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_%28proposed_Pacific_state%29

    A factor in 1992 LA was “rooftop Koreans”. Wonder whose side they’d be on now?

  98. @anon

    Japanese-Iranian pitcher Yu Darvish likes to guess people’s blood types after a short conversation.

  99. @utu

    Canada has 5 times more Chinese than Italy but 62 times less

    If there’s anything sloppier than “times more”, it has to be “times less”.

    as

    • Agree: utu
  100. vhrm says:
    @Sam Haysom

    It’ll be interesting to see when this is all said and done if , in the US, the ratio of

    [economic damage and bailouts] / [excess deaths due to covid-19]

    will be above or below $1 billion. It’s not clear yet.

    (and yes, i understand that doesn’t address lives SAVED but if we don’t see 100k+ deaths or actually crowded hospitals or something it’ll be very hard to swallow the “phew, our massive sacrifices saved us!” narrative. )

    • Agree: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @Je Suis Omar Mateen
  101. Twinkie says:
    @anon

    But wait till the Japanese get hold of this! Even now they have a “blood-type personality” thing that looks a lot like astrology.

    My mother does this – I argue about it with her all the time.

  102. Poco says:
    @scott novak

    Maybe vacuum cleaner bags cut up as masks.

  103. Anonymous[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @anonymous

    Sorry Dunning Kruger link provided

    I forgot the default assumption is that everyone that posts here is lying unless proven otherwise.

    • Replies: @anon
  104. @Smithsonian_2

    Oh Jesus….

    ….my blood type is A+….

    ….it’s been fun shitposting with you guys!

  105. utu says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Chinese tourists:

    in Japan 8.38 mil. (2018)
    in Italy 3.5 mil (2019)
    in Canada 0.737 mil (2018)

    Canada vs. Italy —> number of Chinese residents is not congruent with the magnitude of epidemic
    Japan vs. Italy —> number of Chinese tourists is not congruent with the magnitude of epidemic

  106. Anon[231] • Disclaimer says:
    @J.Ross

    The Japanese might be superficially more Western due to their greater wealth, but they along with the Koreans are more alien in custom and behavior than the Chinese are. Which isn’t surprising since the Korean peninsula and Japanese islands are much further east than mainland Chinese. Mainland China had much more genetic and cultural exchange with the rest of Eurasia than Korea and Japan did. With equivalent material standards, the average Westerner would find Japanese society much more stifling and baffling than Chinese society.

    The Japanese got a head start over China in copying the West. Before copying the West, the Japanese were copying China.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  107. @ScarletNumber

    No pun intended?

    Of course the pun is intended!

  108. @TG

    The main deal is that the elites in Japan have at least some concern about the nation as a whole, and ours could care less.

    How much less could our elites care?

    • Replies: @(((Owen)))
  109. Sorry if this is a dumb question but….

    When you guys, or anyone else online (MSM or SM) talks about numbers for “tested positive” or numbers for deaths — how do you know these numbers are real?

    Put more extremely – how do we know CV (Co-Vid) actually exists, if we have not seen it or its victims with our own two eyes?

    Isn’t it true that many things we know and accept to be false (the Russia collusion narrative, global warming, Iraq’s responsibility for 911) are pure fictions, even though the online propaganda at the time asserted these things to be empirical realities?

    If you yourself have not seen someone you know and trust come down with something you know to be a “novel” disease, or seen with your own eyes young healthy people collapsing on the sidewalks gasping for air like beached fishes – how do we “know” this thing exists, at all?

    Doesn’t being a scientist mean looking to evidence and evidence alone as the source of knowledge? Reproducible experiments. Thanks. I truly want to know how y’all can answer this. I have not seen the virus myself, I live in the densest place in the Hemi and I haven’t seen one sick poison, and I truly have a sinking feeling that we don’t have enough evidence to say this thing does exist, and a hell of a lot of evidence in the form of following the money and political motivations to say this is a creative marketing ploy. What’s the evidence kids?

    • Agree: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @vhrm
  110. Jack D says:
    @128

    The Japanese had a huge asset bubble collapse in the early 90s. When that bubble popped, so did their optimism and Eldritch Energy and they never got it back. By the time they could have recovered, their society had aged and become more risk averse. Before ’91, the Japanese were supposed to be possessed with the wisdom, danger and mystery of the East (see Rising Sun, the Crichton novel later made into a movie) and were invincible. Afterward, they were like the Jerry Lewis version of Japanese – buffoons.

    My personal experience with them was more Jerry Lewis than Crichton in the late 80s. I had a real estate closing where I was representing some big Japanese corporation who was buying space in an office park in northern NJ.

    The day before the closing I went over with them on the phone what they would need to bring to closing, the #1 item being a certified check for the purchase price. I emphasized this to them. The guy repeated it back to me – yes, yes, certiflied check, certiflied check. We get to the closing and the guy (his pants were about 3 inches too short and he was wearing white socks) pulls out an ordinary checkbook. No certiflied check. He doesn’t know what a certiflied check really is but I guess would have lost face if he had admitted that and asked me.

    We had to stop the closing and they drove back to Park Ave. in Manhattan (the nearest branch of the Bank of Tokyo) to actually get a certified check. I got the feeling that being sent to the US was a punishment assignment for them, like being assigned to the Kampala office.

    • Replies: @Johann Ricke
  111. @peterike

    And yet there is always — always — a long wait at the doctor. And for some it takes months to even get an appointment. And the walk-in clinics have been popping up everywhere. I guess we have Yogi Berra doctors: nobody goes to them, because they’re too busy.

    This is because the US has a shortage of doctors relative to most developed countries.

    The walk-in clinics are usually staffed by nurse practitioners (many of whom are excellent), but are rather expensive. As I recall the last time I took my little daughter to one for a sore throat it was $170 using insurance, whereas our local rural clinic is $50 cash without insurance for the exact same treatment and strep throat test and a script for liquid Bactrim and an excuse note for school.

    I think I went to the Minute Clinic at CVS because it was a Sunday and the clinic was closed.

    Other walk-in clinics are often affiliated with hospitals and therefore very expensive. We went to one a few years ago when my wife had a yeast infection, and she (I) ended up getting billed $1350 for a simple lab test that was not even necessary. Of course we were not given the price up front, otherwise we would have declined.

    However the good thing about the US medical system is that once you have been tricked once, you are more wary next time, so it toughens you up.

  112. Anon[768] • Disclaimer says:
    @The Alarmist

    That’s not genius; that’s marketing.

  113. Corvinus says:
    @Steve Sailer

    China also has a major presence in Africa, but few cases of Covid-19 have been reported.

    https://www.dw.com/en/africa-has-been-spared-so-far-from-coronavirus-why/a-52382666

    • Replies: @Smithsonian_6
  114. If anyone wants a good laugh at the expense of a panicky boomer, read Rod Dreher’s blog.

    He’s refusing to leave his house under any circumstances and says anyone who questions “the numbers” is a “denier.”

    He’s making our host, Mr. Sailer, look as phlegmatic as Vladimir Putin.

  115. @Jack D

    The Japanese had a huge asset bubble collapse in the early 90s. When that bubble popped, so did their optimism and Eldritch Energy and they never got it back. By the time they could have recovered, their society had aged and become more risk averse. Before ’91, the Japanese were supposed to be possessed with the wisdom, danger and mystery of the East (see Rising Sun, the Crichton novel later made into a movie) and were invincible. Afterward, they were like the Jerry Lewis version of Japanese – buffoons.

    My personal experience with them was more Jerry Lewis than Crichton in the late 80s. I had a real estate closing where I was representing some big Japanese corporation who was buying space in an office park in northern NJ.

    Mountains of domestic private sector debt combined with blatant ripoffs of Western technology (i.e. catch-up economic growth) provided the Japanese with the equivalent of beer muscles. They began thinking of themselves as omniscient and omnipotent. When they ran out of technology to copy and the land on which the Imperial Palace stood was worth more than the entire state of California, the facade, and what lay below, not only cracked, but collapsed. China is getting to close to that point without having caught up with the US economically, because (1) China’s private sector debt is already out of hand and (2) Uncle Sam isn’t quite as forgiving of a foreign country ripping off his tech that not only isn’t an ally but also has hundreds of nukes pointed at him.

    • Replies: @Neoconned
    , @Anonymous
    , @Anon87
  116. Anon[363] • Disclaimer says:

    https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-as-a-treatment-of-covid-19/

    If the graph is true, the answer was so simple any pediatrician
    could have arrived at the answer. Maybe utu was right about coronavirus being much ado about nothing.

    Maybe a mind-penetration experiment.

  117. anon[398] • Disclaimer says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    If anyone wants a good laugh at the expense of a panicky boomer, read Rod Dreher’s blog.

    It’s not nice to laugh at Eeyore…well, not too much anyway.

  118. ATBOTL says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    People in the US avoid going to the doctor like the plague, even with insurance, because the insurance will not pay, citing deductibles and copays, and at the doctor’s office they will often get slapped with additional bills for lab tests, and prescription of expensive unnecessary drugs.

    This is the crux of the problem with our health system. Everything is designed to discourage people from seeking treatment.

  119. J.Ross says:
    @Anon

    Japan had a ton of things we think of as Western well before their present-day business importance, and through a period of severely limited interaction with the West. In fact their uniquely successful integration (failed attempt at world conquest aside) was probably because of this predisposition. Korea is a bit different because they were the Middle Kingdom’s meimei.

  120. J.Ross says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Still less ridiculous than Jeffrey Goldberg making aaliyah to avoid Manhattan publishing industry sector anti-Semitism.

  121. Odin says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    There, I solved CoronaHoax in one simple rhyming couplet.
    [Mateen]

    You have only one rhyme
    [Caesar]

    A couplet, to be rated Prime,
    Must have two lines but just one rhyme.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  122. SOL says:
    @anonymous

    Building up esprit de corps and frowning upon labor-management disputes… things that are possible because of homogeneity and also a measure of obedience that may be warranted if the leadership does look after the common good. (Don’t know much about corruption among the Japanese leadership class.)

    American oligarchs of the industrial revolution seem to have been more interested in their own benefit over the welfare of workers since they shared little in common and little solidarity? But maybe the early entrepreneurs who hired workers from their town for their factories were different?

  123. anon[127] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    I forgot the default assumption is that everyone that posts here is lying unless proven otherwise.

    You’re just another anon, dude. Easily as trustworthy as, say, Tiny Duck, Corvinus, Rosie, Thomm or others – unless you provide a reference.

    You referenced a “Bruce Charlton” , is this the guy? Or is it someone else?

    https://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/

    An extraordinary claim requires evidence, preferably extraordinary.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  124. Anonymous[204] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon

    One more time, Yes
    The Global establishment really do ….

    In comments—

    Apparently *None* of those who went onto ITU/ ventilators (in disease ‘epicentre’ Cremona, nr Milan, Lombardy – at least) has survived.

    https://www.channel4.com/news/inside-one-intensive-care-team-fighting-coronavirus-in-cremona-italy

    My point is that what is presented as bad news is actually good news.

    This means that ITU/ ventilation is completely ineffective, therefore *unneccessary*.

    • Replies: @res
  125. MKP says:
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    “At the moment I’m laid off without pay because of this panic. Not sure why your fear of death supersedes my need to make a living.”

    It shouldn’t. This is bullshit. Two deaths in my state (which usually has flu deaths into the three digits most years) and they’re shutting down all public spaces.

    I’m presently able to get paid for telework, but I’m with you. Let the olds decide if they want to cower at home or not, let the rest of us back to work.

    But, clearly not enough people agree with us. A handful of people trying to break the soft quarantine won’t work, and most people around here are dutifully hiding under their covers. Hope the men in your area are made of stiffer stuff, Mike, and you get back to work soon.

    • Thanks: MikeatMikedotMike
  126. Barnard says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Dreher is also posting stories from doctors and health care workers that in at least a couple cases I have read are impossible unless the CDC is lying about the infection count and hospitialization rate. People point this out in his comment section and he ignores it.

    • Replies: @anon
  127. @vhrm

    “It’ll be interesting to see when this is all said and done if , in the US, the ratio of

    [economic damage and bailouts] / [excess deaths due to covid-19]

    will be above or below $1 billion. It’s not clear yet.”

    How dare you propose a crass monetary analysis! We’re talking about human lives here!

    Okay, now that I got the virtue sniveling out of my system, the answer is far, far above $1,000,000,000 per kungflu victim. Between bailouts, unemploy payments, temporary UBI, and lost investment wealth, we’re looking at 10 to 100 billion per life.

    Boomers say it’s worth every penny.

  128. Corn says:
    @Jack D

    “We are not going to get Americans to bow instead of shaking hands.”

    Bow no, but how about a deep nod or tip of the ballcap in lieu of the handshake?

    Or are those too hillbilly?

  129. anonguy says:
    @Jonathan Mason

    People in the US avoid going to the doctor like the plague,

    Then how do they end up the most excessively medicated people on the planet?

    Something like half the population has taken a prescription drug the past 30 days, an astounding statistic.

    So your statement Does Not Compute.

    Actually, the truth of the matter is Americans go to healthcare for concierge service and rarely encounter true doctors, rather pill salesmen posing as doctors.

    BTW, do you know why obesity, a major risk factor for westerners wrt coronavirus and stats are beginning to show this, has exploded the past three decades?

    Good for the economy. If it weren’t, it would have been suppressed decades ago.

    More pills, more food, more need for help and services, obese you do less yourself, rely on others for lawncare, entertainment (watch sports) , etc etc etc.

    Wall E syndrome.

    Obesity has very much helped drive the economy, certainly Big Pharma, they love obesity.

    Steve, when you quit panic blogging on corona chan, you should explore this topic. A freebie.

  130. Corn says:
    @Me

    Sauna does indeed have many health benefits….. but 90+ % of Finns sauna and the Wu flu is spreading there.

  131. vhrm says:
    @Currier House

    Well, we have flu and MERS and SARS… so from that point of view this is not a new class of thing that requires “extraordinary evidence” to believe. On the contrary we’ve thought that it was only a matter of time until it happened.

    Then you have published RNA sequence of the supposed thing and also various independently developed tests that are detecting “the thing” in people all over the world. And i haven’t heard of scientists saying “i can’t find this thing that you people are taking about!”. And with social media and high partisanship around the world there’s “no way” such a sentiment could be supressed.

    And the way it started in one place and spread to others over time seems to make sense. And there definitely appear to have been real people all over the world who contacted this thing.

    And various sometimes highly adversarial governments all seem to agree it’s happening AND they’ve taken very economically painful steps to combat “it”. (which we know from many, many pictures and videos of empty cities and attractions around the world)

    Orchestrating something on this scale would be orders of magnitude harder than faking the moon landing.

    Now: “was it created on purpose?” and “was it released on purpose?” and “if so, by whom?” those kind of “conspiratorial” questions … those are harder to know with certainty.

    So i believe it because many other people believe it and i haven’t detected any incongruities in something that would take millions of people to fake.

  132. Jap govt policy toward coronavirus–1. Don’t test, don’t tell 2. No autopsies–all deaths reported as ‘viral pneumonia’.

  133. Neoconned says:
    @Johann Ricke

    We’re not as robust as we like to think we are. At best we’ll be a slightly more upscale version of Brazil in 30 yrs….if worse we won’t even be a country….and rogue generals or governors turned warlords will be fighting over chunks of our WMD arsenal….

  134. Neoconned says:

    My impression of Japan now is that Japanese ppl are inward looking and navel gazing….

    The weight of financing their ever more expensive aging population is causing them to turn inward & ignore the rest of the world….i geta growing similiarity w most white Americans…..

    Our bloated empire, patronage networks, and military industrial complex are sucking the economy dry as we slowly sink into oblivion….

  135. Anonymous[197] • Disclaimer says:
    @Johann Ricke

    The Japanese bubble was not due to hubris but imposed on them by the Plaza Accord.

    The Plaza Accord was signed in 1985, and the Japanese were strong armed into appreciating the yen. From ’85 until ’92 when the bubble burst, Japanese exports to the US were halved. Many Japanese industrial companies went out of business, and more importantly, investment into industry and technology declined as export revenues collapsed. Money was diverted into the rising yen and speculative, non-productive assets.

    It was a kind of managed decline. Uncle Sam basically told Japan to take its huge stock of productive, industrial capital and turn it into financial capital.

  136. anonguy says:
    @Gimeiyo

    One factor that has held down mortality in Korea is thousands of the identified cases are young 20-30 something female members of the religious group.

  137. @Odin

    Then we’re both right.

  138. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Rod Dreher was born in 1967 so he is GenX not Boomer.

  139. anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    A lot of Chinese textile workshops and workers in Tuscany, which was not hard hit by the virus.

  140. HA says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    “He’s making our host, Mr. Sailer, look as phlegmatic as Vladimir Putin.”

    Phlegmatic? He’s shrieking right along with everyone else:

    The Russian government announced a “high alert” status for all 85 of its regions, requiring the whole country to take anti-coronavirus measures such as banning large gatherings, moving schools to online classes and encouraging working from home. Russia’s consumer protection watchdog has ordered mandatory two-week isolation at home for all people entering the country even if they show no symptoms of coronavirus. Russian courts will stop considering all except the most urgent cases from Thursday onwards until April 10 to contain the spread of coronavirus…Moscow’s Sheremetyevo Airport — the capital’s main international transport hub — will close two of its terminals, C and E, starting Friday as closing borders and travel restrictions have suspended many flight routes.

    Even Bibi is clamping down. I think you need to face the fact that your only remaining hero/guru in this crisis is (or was) Rudy Gobert. I mean, at least the guy tried. Finally, a sizeable chunk of iSteve readers are coming around to the notion that we should always take our cues on science and medicine from some black guy, and obediently follow in his footsteps. Tiny Duck must be so delighted to see his efforts paying off so handsomely.

    Someone should start a meme: “Rudy did nothing wrong (except for that part about admitting he was wrong).

  141. duncsbaby says:
    @Joe Stalin

    Oh my. Vera Lynn’s still alive. My mom died at the age of 70, twenty years ago and she used to listen to Vera Lynn on the radio as a kid. Holy cow. Good for Vera. I wonder if she will outlive Roger Waters.

  142. davec says:

    “And lastly:

    4. Luck. ”

    3.5= mass flu immunization in japan. (for last season’s virus, but…?)

  143. anon[457] • Disclaimer says:
    @Barnard

    People point this out in his comment section and he ignores it.

    That’s been a general habit of his for several years in a row. It’s one reason I quit reading his site.

  144. @Anonymous

    Total dead yes but 10K was when Obama address it.

  145. Kim says:
    @anonymous

    People constantly generalize about “Americans” but does such a creature exist?

    I suppose we could imagine a composite American, like one of those children’s books, divided horizontally into three so that images can be mixed and matched to create various imaginary and monstrous creatures.

    But Americans, in the real world, don’t exist. Not like Japanese do.

  146. @Charles Erwin Wilson

    How much less could our elites care?

    Hard to imagine them caring less for us. Also hard to imagine them being any more hostile to our continued existence without actively hating us.

  147. It comes down to some simple facts about the Japanese

    The Japanese are sensible , civilized and nationalistic

    All of the $&@“” I ve experienced trying to be civilized living in Chicago and Nee York City, trying to work in Conservative politics, American Christian churches all the &@@($ the Japanese don t do this.

    The Japanese do not turnover their mass media or politics to Jeff Zucker, Jared Kushner , or Eric Holder, some BlackLiesMatter Soros funded Chicago DA like Kim Foxx

  148. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    ‘CHINESE DONT”DIE FROM AIDS’ . 700,000 chinese in japan moron, you yellow fevered japanese wannabe YT

  149. @fish

    AUSTRALIAN cowards is the reason for lost british colonys, ausses are my heroines,

  150. res says:
    @Anonymous

    I see no comments on the article you linked and almost 2000 comments on the Youtube video it links. What exactly did Bruce Charlton say? A direct link to what he said would be appreciated if possible.

  151. anon[827] • Disclaimer says:

    Can someone explain (a) whether it’s actually true that the Japanese don’t go to work when they’re sick – I hear conflicting reports – and (b) if it’s true, why? 5 seconds googling says they ain’t got much sick leave, and although there’s a gov’t program for long-term sick leave, it doesn’t kick in for weeks and most employers don’t tell their workers about it.

    In other words, is it really just a cultural norm – i.e. something that developed over thousands of years – or could it be induced quite quickly in our own countries with the right incentives?

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
  152. @anon

    In my experience as an expat living in Japan, I’d say there is a very strong norm is for people to go to work when they’re sick. I’ve even heard from Japanese that a major reason for normal mask-wearing is that people want to avoid getting colds because they have to work anyway with a cold, and nobody wants to have to work and feel like crap. It’s plausible.

    However, in the current situation, I think there is a lot more heterogeneity in behavior than usual. The gov’t has encouraged people to work from home; some companies and some people are more compliant than others.

  153. I’m in the USA now, but when I left Japan, the situation was not like the OP. My experience is more like this other comment that the above was made in response to:
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/japan-vs-italy/#comment-3780773

  154. @Hemid

    There’s a lot of truth in this. The US left Japan behind in the race to be woke. However, the Japanese are catching up quickly. A lot of young people are way more liberal than the older generations. Also, the foreign expats representing the west to Japan are increasingly woke. In my job, all the old manuals and teaching materials were about equal to late 1980s America in terms of D.I.E., but they have all recently been replaced with “current” materials. This was a major goal of current management.

  155. @Gimeiyo

    Everyone says that Korean testing has led to their control of the situation, but I’m not sure that’s true. As you point out, Japan is doing quite well with lower rates of testing. Deaths are a hard endpoint, and if the Japanese outbreak were much larger than their testing showed, there would be many more deaths, but there aren’t.

    My sense is that because the Japanese government is less responsive to “the people” than Korea, it is better able to act rationally rather than responding to panic. In the case of the Diamond Princess, they were able to observe that they tested people who came back with negative test results but were actually sick (due to low test sensitivity) and those people were released into the community. This may have made them less reliant on testing and more reliant on actual control measures, which you don’t need testing for. The doctor, Kentaro Iwata, who became famous for his YouTube rant, said in his FCCJ interview quite clearly that exposed people should be quarantined for 2 weeks despite negative test results, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this dismissal of the centrality of testing is accepted by other members of the medical community and Ministry of Health and Labor, regardless of what PM Abe says publicly.

  156. Anon87 says:
    @Johann Ricke

    Have you ever been to Japan? Some “collapse”. Hard to find shithole cities there, where they are easy to find in the US. It seems like we are the fat, balding, former star high school QB who has beer muscles and can’t quite accept the glory days are far, far in the rearview mirror.

    The Chinese rip-off our tech and make inferior, cheap copies. The Japanese spend their time trying to perfect it.

  157. Anon87 says:
    @epebble

    Both of those numbers would be business as usual. Just poking around quick I was shocked to find out how bad the 2017-18 flu season was. 80,000 deaths in the US alone!! It is almost April and it’s only nearing 600 for WuFlu.

    It is all irrelevant, since the US has decided to act like the number is going to be 10,000,000. I am not encouraged by that, the impending unemployement numbers, or the panic and dithering in DC.

    I’m being a broken record, but we have slide down from First World status for sure. Let’s hope there are brakes applied soon.

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