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What Happened to NYC's German Population?
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In the early 20th Century, New York City had an enormous population of German gentiles, such as Babe Ruth’s popular sidekick on the New York Yankees baseball team, Lou Gehrig, who was a Manhattanite born and bred:

Gehrig was born in 1903 at 309 East 94th Street[13] in the Yorkville neighborhood of Manhattan;[14] he weighed almost 14 pounds (6.4 kg) at birth. He was the second of four children of German immigrants, Christina Foch (1881–1954) and Heinrich Gehrig (1867–1946).[15][16] His father was a sheet-metal worker by trade who was frequently unemployed due to alcoholism, and his mother, a maid, was the main breadwinner and disciplinarian in the family.[17] His two sisters died at an early age from whooping cough and measles; a brother also died in infancy.[18] From an early age, Gehrig helped his mother with work, doing tasks such as folding laundry and picking up supplies from the local stores.[19] Gehrig spoke German during his childhood.[20] In 1910, he lived with his parents at 2266 Amsterdam Avenue in Washington Heights.[21] In 1920, the family resided on 8th Avenue in Manhattan.[22] His name was often anglicized to Henry Louis Gehrig …

What happened to them?

One half-German New Yorker moved to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and another changed his name to something Italian and moved into the mayor’s mansion. But what happened to the concept of German New Yorkers?

A reader sends a 2003 NYT article:

The Germans Came; Now They Are Us; An Ethnic Queens Neighborhood Is Melting Away Into America
By JOSEPH BERGER OCT. 25, 2003

… There is another factor in this melding of identity. Despite the passage of more than five decades, some German-American residents in Ridgewood say that the stigma of two world wars endures and that as a result, many are content to blend into an all-purpose Americanism. In New York City, with its large population of Jews, the issue is even more sensitive.

”To this very day, both wars have caused people of Germanic background to pull their horns back and really not talk about it all that much,” said Paul Kerzner, counsel to the Ridgewood Property Owners and Civic Association and a fourth-generation German-American.

For example, Fred Trump sometimes claimed to be of Swedish descent because of the ethnic animus of his huge number of Jewish tenants.

 
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  1. Anon[388] • Disclaimer says:

    At least one of them moved to Washington DC.

  2. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    The General Slocum steamboat disaster a year after Gehrig was born is said to have been the turning point:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/why-there-are-almost-no-germans-in-new-york-2015-8

    Once upon a time, what is known as New York City’s East Village today was the world’s third-largest German-speaking city — behind only Vienna and Berlin.

    While New York is home to an abundance of unique ethnic enclaves, Kleindeutschland, or Little Germany, was literally a German town in the middle of New York, which retained its language and customs.

    At its peak, around the mid-1800s, Little Germany was home to 60,000 Germans and encompassed 400 blocks, from Division Street to 14th Street, and from Avenue D to Bowery. It was one of New York’s most heavily populated neighborhoods, and some estimate that 30% of New York City was made of German immigrants and their American-born children.

    Tompkins Square Park was at the heart of the neighborhood, and Avenue B its main commercial strip, known as “German Broadway.” The area, especially around Bowery, was full of massive beer halls, as well as lager beer shops, theaters and grocery stores aplenty. Most were advertised in German signage, and the neighborhood even had its own German newspaper, the New-Yorker Staats-Zeitung.

    On June 15th, 1904, all of that changed when Little Germany — and nearly all of its inhabitants — were wiped out in the General Slocum Disaster.

    What was supposed to be a day trip along the East River to Long Island, organized by the East Village branch of the St. Mark’s Lutheran Church for their 17th annual picnic, turned into a disaster. The chartered boat (the General Slocum) that was supposed to take guests to Long Island caught fire, killing 1,000 Germans.

    Being a Wednesday, most of those on the ship were women and children — and mostly from wealthy families. These families were Little Germany’s social foundation, causing major repercussions for the parish. Almost every family lost a member and the suicide count rose dramatically after the disaster.

    Little Germany never recovered. The once tight-knit enclave slowly dissolved, and when WWI created anti-German sentiments, people distanced themselves from their language, customs, and from each other even more.

  3. Dan Hayes says:

    Steve,

    One proximate cause of German-Yorkville’s demise was the 3rd Avenue elevated line’s removal which revealed a wide avenue whose environs were open to what would later be termed gentrification.

    • Replies: @anon
  4. What Happened to NYC’s German Population?

    Some of them married Scottish people and produced New Yorkers such as Christopher Walken and Donald Trump.

  5. Jilla says:

    There are still some vestiges of the Herman community in Yorkville. Schaller and Weber is an old school butcher with most of the employees having German accents. Heidelberg is a German restaurant a few stores down. As far as the people, there are still some old timers with German surnames. But my guess is that most GAs left for the burbs or Staten island like alot of other white ethnic groups. There is still a Steuben day parade. I went probably ten years ago and it wasn’t all that well attended. Much tamer than the festivals of more vibrant groups.

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  6. Anonymous[388] • Disclaimer says:

    There was a German part of the Bronx called Morrisania. Where a German-American by the name of Frederick C. Trump grew up before moving to Queens.

  7. utu says:

    PS General Slocum
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS_General_Slocum

    The Decline and Fall of Kleindeutschland
    https://www.tenement.org/blog/the-decline-and-fall-of-kleindeutschland/

    With a thousand people lost, few families in this close community escaped the tragedy. Funerals went on for several weeks after the tragedy, so many funerals occurred that for a time, there was said to be a funeral every four minutes.

    The community was so unilaterally affected that depression became endemic in the survivors, mostly men, fathers, brothers, and uncles who had been at working at the time of the excursion. In the wake of the disaster, there were several suicides and many residents moved away from the Lower East Side to distance themselves from a neighborhood which was so infected by grief.

    https://www.6sqft.com/remembering-the-worst-disaster-in-nyc-maritime-history-the-sinking-of-the-general-slocum-ferry/

    It was on that day that the ferry General Slocum headed out from the East 3rd Street pier for an excursion on Long Island, filled with residents of what was then called Kleindeutschland, or Little Germany. This German-American enclave in today’s East Village was then the largest German-speaking community in the world outside of Berlin and Vienna

    This was also around the time that Jewish immigration to New York City was peaking. Within a decade or so, nearly all of Kleindeutschland was occupied by Jewish residents; some from Germany, but mostly poorer Jews from the Russian and Austro-Hungarian Empires. By World War I, and the anti-German fervor that it raised, the German-American presence in this part of the Lower East Side all but disappeared.

    However, even to this day, reminders remain, particularly of the General Slocum disaster. St. Mark’s German Evangelical Lutheran Church still stands on East 6th Street, though in 1940 it became the Community Synagogue. A plaque on the building memorializes the victims of the General Slocum disaster.

    • Replies: @utu
  8. They dispersed from Yorkville to:
    1) more fashionable parts of Manhattan;
    2) Westchester, Long Island, and New Jersey.

    Many who were originally Lutheran became Episcopalians or Presbyterians as they began to marry non-Germans. You can find lots of German names (or, at least, Anglicized German names) among the parishioners of high status churches in Manhattan and the city’s most upscale suburbs.

    Catholic Germans often married Irish-Catholics.

    They have always been around, often in leading positions, even if they were rarely identified as “German-Americans.” Mayor “Bobby” Wagner (1953-1965) was an example. Even NY’s current scumbag mayor was originally named William Wilhelm, jr. He switched to DeBlasio, his mother’s maiden name, for political advantage.

    • Replies: @Forbes
  9. syonredux says:

    Little Germany, known in German as Kleindeutschland and Deutschländle and called Dutchtown by contemporary non-Germans,[1] was a German immigrant neighborhood on the Lower East Side of Manhattan in New York City. The neighborhood’s ethnic cohesion began to decline in the late 19th century from the population dynamics of non-German immigrants settling in the area, and the loss of second-generation families to other German-American communities. The decline was exacerbated in 1904, when the General Slocum disaster wiped out the social core of the neighborhood.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Germany,_Manhattan

    The population was at first heavily German, but many Jews from the Lower East side of Manhattan came to the area after the completion of the Williamsburg Bridge in 1903. Williamsburg had two major community banks: the Williamsburgh Savings Bank (chartered 1851, since absorbed by HSBC) and its rival the Dime Savings Bank of Williamsburgh (chartered 1864, now known as the DIME, has remained independent). The area around the Peter Luger Steak House, established in 1887, in the predominantly German neighborhood under the Williamsburg Bridge, was a major banking hub until the City of Brooklyn united with New York City.[18] One of the early high schools in Brooklyn, the Eastern District High School, opened here in February 1900.[19][20]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williamsburg,_Brooklyn

    From 1880, Yorkville became a destination for German-born immigrants. However, by the 1900s, many German residents moved to Yorkville and other neighborhoods from “Kleindeutschland” (Little Germany) on the Lower East Side after the General Slocum disaster on June 15, 1904. The ship caught fire in the East River just off the shores of Yorkville, leading family members to move closer to the site of the incident.[14] Most of the passengers on the ship were German.[15][16] In addition, the general trend towards moving to the suburbs reduced the German population in Manhattan; by 1930, most German New Yorkers lived in Queens.

    On 86th Street, in the central portion of Yorkville, there were many German shops, restaurants and bakeries. Yorkville became the melting pot of populations arriving from various regions of the Prussian-dominated German Empire and its colonies, where many cultures spoke German. In the 1930s, the neighborhood was the home base of Fritz Julius Kuhn’s German American Bund, the most notorious pro-Nazi group in 1930s United States, which led to spontaneous protests by other residents.[17] Yorkville was a haven for refugees from fascist Germany in the 1940s, and from refugees from communist regimes in the 1950s and 1960s. The neighborhood is the site of the annual Steuben Parade, a large German-American celebration.[18]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkville,_Manhattan

  10. syonredux says:

    But what happened to the concept of German New Yorkers?

    WWI and WWII. Cf how Trump’s father told people that he was Swedish:

    Although both of his parents were German,[4] for decades after World War II Trump told friends that his family was of Swedish origin. According to his nephew John Walter, “He had a lot of Jewish tenants and it wasn’t a good thing to be German in those days.”[5]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump

  11. Bill P says:

    Well, look what happened to Lou Gehrig’s family in NYC. His siblings died of infectious disease and his dad couldn’t hold a job.

    A responsible father would pick up and move his family to some place like Wisconsin even if he had to start over as a street sweeper. My bet is that hundreds of thousands of Germans did just that.

  12. Xjh says:

    I am of part German NYC descent. That part of the family intermarried often with Irish and along with the remaining German vestigates populated parts of Queens (Ridgewood Queens remained very German until recently), Brooklyn and then dispersed to the Suburbs of NYC in LINY and NJ post-1970s white flight from the five boroughs.
    Also the Bronx had heavily German areas around the time of the Londberg kidnapping. Bronx people usually went to NJ Suburbs over time.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    , @Bugg
  13. yeah i was gonna say. the president and the mayor.

  14. Somewhat OT:

    Illinois lawmakers proposing storm sewer maintenance bill, or as some call it, a rain tax.

    https://www.ilnews.org/news/state_politics/storm-sewer-maintenance-bill-or-rain-tax-illinois-lawmakers-debate/article_b8dcbe08-4b59-11e9-a531-5b927aebb213.html

    My wife also told me today about a child separation case involving a 15 year old ward of the state living in a foster home, with a history of behavioral problems, who was given approval by a court to participate in a class trip to France, and Illinois DCFS (meaning, the Illinois taxpayers) is paying for him to go.

  15. Short answer: WWI and then history from about 1933 onward. The Bund had some pretty impressive rallies at the old Madison Square Garden, protested, of course, sometimes rather violently, by J-Pod’s forebearers.

  16. Xjh says:

    The German immigrants were often more skilled craftsmen than say the Irish and therefore they could find good work in other locations throughout the country.

  17. Here’s what happened to some of them:

    On June 15, 1904, a disaster of unprecedented proportions took place in New York City, resulting in the loss of over 1,000 lives, mostly women and children. This largely forgotten event was the greatest peacetime loss of life in New York City history prior to the September 11th attacks, forever changing our city and the ethnic composition of today’s East Village.

    It was on that day that the ferry General Slocum headed out from the East 3rd Street pier for an excursion on Long Island, filled with residents of what was then called Kleindeutschland, or Little Germany. This German-American enclave in today’s East Village was then the largest German-speaking community in the world outside of Berlin and Vienna…

    Remembering the worst disaster in NYC maritime history: The sinking of the General Slocum ferry

  18. utu says:
    @utu

    https://keithyorkcity.wordpress.com/2012/10/09/the-general-slocum-disaster-single-handedly-destroyed-new-yorks-little-germany/

    Unlike previous immigrant waves, the Germans who arrived in the United States often had a respectable amount of money, were trained in various lucrative business trades, and were far more well-educated than their contemporary Irish or Italians flowing through New York’s harbor. They therefore were generally quick to bypass the degradation of the city’s brutal slums, flocking deep into the American heartland to places like Texas and Wisconsin, establishing bakeries and breweries and forever transforming their new communities.

    Those who chose to stay in New York tended to concentrate themselves in tightly-knit communities, segregated by German State, in Manhattan’s Lower East Side: Prussians in the 10th Ward, people from Baden in the 13th Ward, people from Hessen-Nassau at the border of the 10th, 13th & 17th Wards, Wurttembergers in the 17th Ward, Hanoverians in the 13th Ward, and Bavarians basically anywhere the Prussians weren’t. By 1865, there were more than 57,000 Germans in New York: the most of any city other than Berlin and Vienna.

    The Tompkins Square memorial was unveiled in 1905, one year after the tragedy, by young Adella Liebenow. She had been 8 months old when the ship went down: the youngest survivor. In January of 2004, she passed away at age 100. No one who sailed aboard the General Slocum now lives to tell the tale. It was the greatest single loss of life in New York’s history until the attacks of September 11th, 2001, yet few today have any knowledge of it. Its legacy lives on in the stringent safety requirement for ships, put in place to ensure such a tragedy would never occur again.

    • Replies: @Kibernetika
  19. Daniel H says:

    German Americans have always been mellow, undemonstrative. In the 18th century Ben Franklin observed that they were just absorbed, swallowed into the great heartland and not a peep was heard from them. In New York City, even at their height, they couldn’t keep up with the cunning and crafty Irish. Then came the Italians and Jews. And since the ’50s, with all the newer ethnies, forget about it.

  20. If I am not mistaken, Yorkville was also center of NYC’s gentile Hungarian community. Still a few delicatessens and a Hungarian church around.

    • Replies: @Kaganovitch
  21. syonredux says:
    @syonredux

    During World War I, U.S. Government Propaganda Erased German Culture

    While historians differ on what effect this had on German-Americans, Frederick Luebke, author of Bonds of Loyalty: German-Americans and World War I, says “a few reacted by asserting their Germanness with new vigor.” But he adds, “others sought to slough off their ethnicity as painlessly as possible.”

    In the anti-German hysteria of World War I, the assimilation of German-Americans was accelerated. And being a hyphenated American would mean being suspect in nativist eyes for decades to come.

    https://www.npr.org/2017/04/07/523044253/during-world-war-i-u-s-government-propaganda-erased-german-culture

  22. Ron Unz says:

    From what I recall reading, NYC had the second largest German population of any city in the world during the late 19th century…

    Yet accept for a few outliers here and there, they seem to have almost totally disappeared by the 1950s.

    Doesn’t that raise dark suspicions of a hidden and long suppressed “German Holocaust,” in which the overwhelm majority were secretly exterminated by our government, presumably during the “Night and Fog” conditions of WWI and WWII? How can there by any other plausible explanation about where they went?

  23. There are 20k Amish that have spread into New York State that speak a dialect of German “Pennsylvania Dutch/Deutsch”.

  24. Ratliff says:

    Fascinating and tragic details on the General Slocum. I knew of it from literature, but hadn’t known of its devastating effects on an entire community, until I read the preceding comments.

    The General Slocum tragedy occurred on 15 June 1904, the day before Bloomsday, the day immortalized in James Joyce’s Ulysses. Thus, the disaster is alluded to several times in the novel. Leopold Bloom (an assimilated Jew btw) reads of it in his newspaper, and fragments of his stream of consciousness are given over to it, although the German angle is not brought up. Which seems accurate for what might have been in a next day’s account in The Irish Times.

  25. The much, much more historically important Dutch New Yorkers seem to have disappeared too although that doesn’t quite fit into your theory.

    There was a German-American mayor of NYC-with the name of Wagner no less-as recently as 1965. Apparently he didn’t have to change his name. The last Dutch mayor ended his term in 1901.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mayors_of_New_York_City

    I also note your hostility to one of America’s most famous German-Americans: https://www.besigheim.de/,Lde/start/unsere+stadt/obama+ist+ein+besigheimer.html

    (BTW didn’t you once cite approvingly Benjamin Frankin’s comments about German immigrants-I believe you did)

  26. syonredux says:

    many are content to blend into an all-purpose Americanism.

    Eisenhower, Nimitz, Pershing, Spaatz, ……..The Germans becoming un-hyphenated Americans is one of the more important events of the last hundred years…..

  27. syonredux says:
    @anony-mouse

    (BTW didn’t you once cite approvingly Benjamin Frankin’s comments about German immigrants-I believe you did)

    I should certainly hope so. Franklin’s concerns regarding the Germans were perfectly reasonable. After all, just imagine what would have happened had they not assimilated to Anglo-American norms…..

    And Franklin’s views on the Germans were actually quite nuanced:

    Yet I am not for refusing entirely to admit them [Germans] into our Colonies: all that seems to be necessary is, to distribute them more equally, mix them with the English, establish English Schools where they are now too thick settled, and take some care to prevent the practice lately fallen into by some of the Ship Owners, of sweeping the German Gaols to make up the number of their Passengers.I say I am not against the Admission of Germans in general, for they have their Virtues, their industry and frugality is exemplary; They are excellent husbandmen and contribute greatly to the improvement of a Country.

    https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-04-02-0173

  28. Rich says:

    German-Irish is one of the most common mixes in NY State. A lot of German-Italians, too. We used to call them the Axis Powers in High School. My wife is Dutch-German out of Brooklyn, one of the most common mixtures in the region. And there were, and still are, a ton of New Yorkers with Dutch ancestry.

  29. wren says:

    I have a very distant Dutch relative who owned property in Albany in 1650 or so that he purchased with some beaver pelts.

    Prior to the British invading, the town was called Beverwijck.

    I wonder how many original Dutch are still left in New York.

  30. @Ron Unz

    Ron, I would assume you are kidding but I can never be completely sure.

    Just for the record or, at least for the benefit of some unz.com readers, German-American New Yorkers didn’t “disappear” even if they did disperse from the old neighborhoods.

    Mayor Wagner (1953-1965) was German but almost nobody thought of him that way. Like other German-Americans of his generation he spoke English and ate bratwurst only very occasionally, if at all.

    In his case, he also went to the Taft School, Yale, and Yale Law School, just like his successor John Lindsay (in the latter two cases).

    Having married an older stock America woman, there was little to distinguish Wagner from high status Protestants of British descent.

    Many of his kind also moved to the suburbs.

    William Wilhelm, Sr., father of the current NYC mayor, also went to a leading prep school and Yale. The current mayor (Wilhelm, jr.) changed his name to de Blasio in his late twenties or thirties.

    So, they are still around. They just don’t march in the Steuben Day Parade anymore.

  31. @Anon

    As a proud German-American, let me tell you what Donald Trump most assuredly isn’t: a proud German-American. Everyone knows he’s a philo-Semite (like, duh), but German?! He doesn’t identify as one, and he very much doesn’t act like one.

    The weird social engineering that went on during and after World War 1 successfully rooted out German identity so we could instead be ruled by the WASP-Jew hybrid. YAY!

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    , @syonredux
    , @utu
  32. @syonredux

    After all, just imagine what would have happened had they not assimilated to Anglo-American norms…..

    Like what, we might have a more peaceful country with even better agriculture, more stable communities, and less overseas wars?

    • Replies: @syonredux
  33. @Anonymous

    and when WWI created anti-German sentiments, people distanced themselves from their language, customs, and from each other even more.

    I love the way they write this, with no explanation what the phrase “WW1 created anti-German sentiments” really means.

    What it means is that states like Ohio and Nebraska, led by their “Anglo-American establishment,” passed laws forbidding even the Amish from teaching German to their children.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meyer_v._Nebraska

    • Replies: @syonredux
  34. Lot says:
    @Ron Unz

    Germans and other distinct white ethnic groups in the United States gradually assimilated and intermarried. There is no evidence that a large fraction of Eastern European Jews did this between 1940 and 1945.

    You and your holohoax crew are simply deranged.

    • Replies: @gcochran
  35. prosa123 says:
    @Xjh

    Ridgewood Queens remained very German until recently

    It’s still a fairly decent neighborhood. It got an influx of Eastern European, especially Romanian, immigrants in the 1980’s and into the 1990’s, though I’m not sure if many remain.

    Lindenhurst, about 40 miles east of the city in the western part of Suffolk County, was a German stronghold for decades. Today there are still some remaining hints of its former identity, for example one of the town’s volunteer fire companies is called the Breslau Hose Company, but demographically it’s more or less your typical suburban hodgepodge.

    The much, much more historically important Dutch New Yorkers seem to have disappeared too although that doesn’t quite fit into your theory.

    As recently as the 1930’s there were still a few elderly people in the Hudson Valley who spoke Dutch as a first language. That was truly remarkable as Dutch immigration had come to a nearly complete end with the British takeover of New Netherlands in the 1680’s, basically 200 years before these Dutch speakers had been born. I doubt there’s any other example of an immigrant group’s language persisting remotely as long in the absence of continued immigration.

  36. @syonredux

    Around 1750, Franklin was the leader of the political party in Pennsylvania that favored self-rule. The other political party was bankrolled by the Anglican descendants of William Penn in England, which had most of the Quaker vote in Pennsylvania. The Proprietors’ Party was importing German immigrants with Pietist views to vote for their party.

    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

  37. @Daniel H

    In the 18th century Ben Franklin observed that they were just absorbed, swallowed into the great heartland and not a peep was heard from them.

    This is mostly true.

    Pennsylvania has the nation’s longest German tradition, but we’ve produced very little in the way of notable politicians or nationally-known …. anything, really.

    However, we did have a Jacksonian “Dutch” congressman from the upper Susquehanna Valley (I forget his name, which is telling) who once retaliated to a haughty John Randolph speech, in which Randolph used Latin, by ranting angrily and sarcastically in Pennsylvania Dutch. That must have been exciting.

    Our best food stuff is scrapple, which is a rather tasty breakfast sausage, but it’s still largely unknown, certainly in comparison to Southern BBQ or whatever cheese they’re deep-frying in Wisconsin.

    But it’s always worth wondering to what extent the German-Americans created the heartland, as a quiet reality, rather than simply being absorbed into it. Think of the Virgin Mary in Catholicism. In Catholic tradition, she says all but nothing in the Bible, yet she is the birthplace of all that matters.

    • Replies: @guest
  38. @Steve Sailer

    Largely true, although a very large percentage (perhaps even a majority) of those Pennsylvania German immigrants were Catholic, Lutheran, or other not-at-all-Pietist Christians.

    My ranting aside, great post, Steve.

  39. @syonredux

    That World War 1-intervening son-of-a-gun Theodore Roosevelt wanted us to do it, wanted us to drop our heritage, and, by gosh, we accepted it.

    Dadgum it.

    What a price we have paid for our material wealth.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  40. The Slaughter of Cities: Urban Renewal as Ethnic Cleansing by E. Michael Jones

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2023854.The_Slaughter_of_Cities

    The book is not German-centric. For that particular group assimilation hit Warp Factor 7 in 1917.

  41. @Anonymous

    Once upon a time, what is known as New York City’s East Village today was the world’s third-largest German-speaking city — behind only Vienna and Berlin.

    While New York is home to an abundance of unique ethnic enclaves, Kleindeutschland, or Little Germany, was literally a German town in the middle of New York, which retained its language and customs.

    At its peak, around the mid-1800s, Little Germany was home to 60,000 Germans and encompassed 400 blocks, from Division Street to 14th Street, and from Avenue D to Bowery.

    That’s ridiculous. In 1837, the population of Hamburg was 137,000. In 1843, Munich already had 90,000, and Cologne had 95,000 in 1849.

    • Replies: @Anon
  42. What Happened to NYC’s German Population?

    They went the way of the Scandinavians of Bay Ridge. The Italians of Bay Ridge are going the same way or at least they are going to Staten Island. 8th Avenue in Brooklyn was once called Little Norway.

    https://forgotten-ny.com/2006/06/norse-code-in-bay-ridge/

    https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/nyregion/thecity/27scan.html

    • Replies: @Kaganovitch
    , @Reg Cæsar
  43. Hanzy says:

    Doesn’t that raise dark suspicions of a hidden and long suppressed “German Holocaust,” in which the overwhelm majority were secretly exterminated by our government, presumably during the “Night and Fog” conditions of WWI and WWII? How can there by any other plausible explanation about where they went?

    I think one lead would be understanding how the US concentration camps secureing qualifying Germans operated in WWII. A few of the camps were quite large, and I understand it didn’t take much to get tossed into one during the war if you were of obvious Germanic leanings.

    I also wonder if we confiscated German-owned land and properties as we did the Japs.

    Ironically, concentration camps have always worked swell to eliminate, or at least severely inhibit the asymmetrical warfare we have grown accustomed to today. I say ironically, because it was Hitler who gave concentration camps a bad name.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @wren
  44. @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    He definitely identifies with his Scottish side, spending zillions on two amazing golf courses in Scotland.

  45. njguy73 says:
    @Daniel H

    German Americans have always been mellow, undemonstrative. In the 18th century Ben Franklin observed that they were just absorbed, swallowed into the great heartland and not a peep was heard from them.

    It’s a shame the whole country didn’t immigrate to America.

  46. It’s not just NYC. There were German communities in Newark and Elizabeth right across the river. After WW1 they assimilated and intermarried. My German-accented grandfather was chased off a streetcar in Elizabeth by thugs with knives in 1918. Still the 3rd largest ethnicity in NJ after Italians and Irish, despite the fact there’s been no real German immigration in 100+ years. They are the silent majority; defense attorneys know German Americans on a jury are more likely to vote with the state.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  47. syonredux says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic. The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American. There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

    -Theodore Roosevelt

  48. syonredux says:
    @Hanzy

    . I say ironically, because it was Hitler who gave concentration camps a bad name.

    They’ve had a bad rep since the 1890s (cf their use by the Spanish in Cuba and the British in South Africa).

    • Replies: @Hanzy
  49. wren says:
    @Hanzy

    The government took a lot of farms and land from the Japanese in East Palo Alto California during the war and later encouraged black people to move in.

    It later became one of the murder capital of the world.

  50. syonredux says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    What it means is that states like Ohio and Nebraska, led by their “Anglo-American establishment,” passed laws forbidding even the Amish from teaching German to their children.

    An excellent idea.Linguistic unity is terribly important. I wish that we could do something similar with the Latinx.

  51. istevefan says:
    @Daniel H

    Here is a passage from an immigrant handbook written by the authorities of Chariton County, Missouri, immediately after the Civil War. It looks like they were deliberately recruiting German immigrants to come in to farm in Chariton County. It seems to echo Franklin’s observation about them assimilating rather easily.

    It is a well-known fact that the German abroad, when he is isolated, relin­quishes his identity more easily that does the descendant of any other nation. His great talent for assimilation, which, to be sure, has raised Germany as an entity to its present high cutural level, leads him soon to forget his Germanness when he does not come into daily contact with his countrymen; and, just as the immigrant, like many of that sort (even many educated Germans), has to turn his attention as soon as he comes into the country towards de-Germanizing himself as quickly as possible in order all the quicker to become Americanized,

  52. syonredux says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    Like what, we might have a more peaceful country with even better agriculture, more stable communities, and less overseas wars?

    Balkanization….the kind of thing that we’re seeing right now, only in whiteface…..

  53. syonredux says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    The weird social engineering that went on during and after World War 1 successfully rooted out German identity so we could instead be ruled by the WASP-Jew hybrid. YAY!

    If only we had given the Jews the same treatment….

  54. Daniel H says:
    @anony-mouse

    >>There was a German-American mayor of NYC-with the name of Wagner no less-as recently as 1965.

    Robert Wagner was the prelapsarian mayor of New York before the craziness of the 1960s overwhelmed the civic resources of New York city under John V. Lindsey. Compared to what came in the decades after 1965, Wagner’s two terms seemed idyllic.

    Robert Wagner’s son, Robert Wagner III/Jr. was an all around government factotum who served under Ed Koch. He was always in the papers in the 80s and early 90s, for some reason. He was a gentle, unassuming man, probably gay. He just discreetly slipped away in the early 90s.

  55. @Steve Sailer

    Mary Anne MacLeod was born on the Isle of Lewis in the Outer Hebrides of Scotland and raised in a Scottish Gaelic speaking household.

    Same hair as Trump. She had good taste in music. People forget that Trump’s mother was brutally mugged which influenced some of his anti-crime attitudes.

    • Replies: @PiltdownMan
    , @Veloman
    , @sayless
  56. @utu

    Es war ein Land! Ospreussen bleibt Deutsch!

  57. German style beer halls that serve artisanal German food have been a hipster staple in New York for some time. The “Germans” may be gone, but the culture lives on in a way. I have taken a few leftist friends from Germany to these places and after a stein or two, their self-hatred recedes for a brief moment, and they get emotional about the appreciation of their culture in the New World.

  58. There was a section of Boston known as Germantown, where my German great grandmother and her five siblings lived. By WW2 four of the six had married WASPs and disappeared into the American middle class.

  59. My maternal grand-father was German. His parents both spoke German. My maternal great-grand-mother was German. She married an Irish Catholic. I am proud of my German heritage. So sad that we discarded our great German heritage in favor of Third-World non-white mud-people.

  60. utu says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    The weird social engineering that went on during and after World War 1 successfully

    It was not melting pot but a meat grinder and bone crusher machine. Accelerated assimilation.

    https://www.historyonthenet.com/authentichistory/1914-1920/2-homefront/4-hysteria/

    Not surprisingly, acts of violence increased dramatically during the winter months and reached a climax in the spring of 1918. In Pensacola Florida, a German-American was severely flogged by a citizens group. He was forced to shout, “To hell with the Kaiser,” and then ordered to leave the state. In Avoca, Pennsylvania, an Austrian-American was accused of criticizing the Red Cross. A group of superpatriots tied him up, hoisted him thirty feet in the air, and blasted him with water from a fire hose for a full hour. In Oakland, California, a German-American tailor was nearly lynched by a local organization called the Knights of Liberty. In San Jose, a German American named George Koetzer was tarred and feathered, and then chained to a cannon in the local park. In Tulsa, Oklahoma, a German-American was tarred and feathered, lashed fifty times, and forced to leave the city. Several Lutheran pastors were whipped for having delivered sermons in German. In Jefferson City, Missouri, a German-American named Fritz Monat was seized by a vigilante mob, stripped, beaten, and taken to the local movie theater, where the show in progress was interrupted in other for the audience to watch as Monat was forced to kneel and kiss the flag amid rousing rhetoric against disloyalists. In dozens of communities mobs disguised as patriotic organizations invaded homes and dragged suspects from their beds in order to interrogate, threaten, beat, and sometimes deport them.

    Among the most tragic of these acts of “patriotism” was the mob lynching of Robert Prager on April 5, 1918, in Collinsville, Illinois.

    Sausage Dogs Persecuted – the Fall of Dachshund during WW1
    https://blog.maryevans.com/2014/03/sausage-dogs-persecuted-the-fall-of-dachshund-during-ww1.html

    And it worked. Germans en mass began to Americanize their names. Very German cities like Cincinnati or St. Paul removed German signs and changed street name.

    https://maryevanspicturelibrary.typepad.com/.a/6a017d4254a056970c01a3fccc1e3c970b-pi

  61. res says:
    @Steve Sailer

    The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    Any details of how that played out then which might be constructive to recall now?

  62. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Snack Factory

    Don’t Germans tend to go with the state?

  63. @Jilla

    There are still some vestiges of the Herman community in Yorkville.

    There’s also a tiny bit of ‘touristy’ Little Italy, but mostly it’s been subsumed by Chinatown.

  64. syonredux says:
    @utu

    It was not melting pot but a meat grinder and bone crusher machine. Accelerated assimilation.

    If only we still had that kind of strength……

  65. @IQ Realist

    I can’t watch videos, so can you provide a synopsis?

    • Replies: @bomag
  66. @utu

    Sausage Dogs Persecuted – the Fall of Dachshund during WW1
    https://blog.maryevans.com/2014/03/sausage-dogs-persecuted-the-fall-of-dachshund-during-ww1.html

    An old-time New Yorker told me that on the Upper West Side, people on the sidewalks would actually kick weiner dogs during the war. But he said it about WW2 IIRC. No idea if it really happened.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @prosa123
  67. @Ron Unz

    “Night and Fog”?

    I remember going to high school in Chicago and the Jewish history instructor, after hearing the rye comments of the Blacks, went and found a copy of the movie (film, not videotape) and forced us to watch it.

  68. syonredux says:
    @utu

    In Jefferson City, Missouri, a German-American named Fritz Monat was seized by a vigilante mob, stripped, beaten, and taken to the local movie theater, where the show in progress was interrupted in other for the audience to watch as Monat was forced to kneel and kiss the flag amid rousing rhetoric against disloyalists.

    I can think of some current-day hyphenates who could use that kind of treatment…..

  69. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz

    Incidentally, Hitler’s last living relatives live on Long Island. Does The Unz Review get hits from an IP address based in Patchogue, Long Island? An odd detail is that they changed their surname to “Stuart-Houston”, which is an unusual name to adopt. It of course brings to mind the name of the Nazi philosopher Houston Stuart Chamberlain, who strongly influenced the Nazis and Hitler himself.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6250295/The-Long-Island-Hitler-Fuhrers-nephew-life-long-Republican-DOESNT-care-Trump.html

    Alexander Stuart-Houston, the oldest male descendant of the Nazi dictator, was tracked down to a town in Patchogue, Long Island, New York state, by German newspaper Bild.

    The wooden home of one of the last Hitlers is remarkably ordinary: visitors are greeted by an empty driveway before reaching an overgrown lawn adorned with neatly arranged pot plants.

    The 68-year-old great-nephew of the Nazi leader has spent a lifetime hiding his devastating secret.

    He and his two surviving brothers, Brian and Louis, who live together nearby, have declined all interviews – until now. In a world-exclusive interview on the porch of his home, Alexander – a staunch Republican voter like his brothers – calls Mr Trump a ‘liar’ and reveals his support for German Chancellor Mrs Merkel.

    Alexander – whose middle name is Adolf – told Bild: ‘The last person I would say I admire is Donald Trump. He is definitely not one of my favourites. Some things that Trump says are all right… It’s his manner that annoys me. And I just don’t like liars.’

    Understandably, the family stopped using the Hitler surname long ago. In 1946, it became Hiller, and later Stuart-Houston – the name now used by Alexander and his brothers.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    , @Reg Cæsar
  70. Anonymous[403] • Disclaimer says:

    A lot of east coast Germans got sent back to Germany in the aftermath of the World War I hysteria. The rest got the message and faded into the background.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  71. Ted Plank says:

    As a commenter noted above, the infamous proto Beat author Henry Miller was born into a Brooklyn German household in 1891, spending his first three and a half decades there, this German American experience depicted in extravagant and vulgar detail in “Black Spring”, “Tropic Of Capricorn”and The Rosy Crucifixion Trilogy (“Sexus”, “Nexus” and “Plexus”). An outstanding snapshot of hardscrabble existence between the two world wars, a dirtier minded and more surreal version of Sherwood Anderson’s “Winesburg, Ohio”.

    Highly recommended reading.

    • Replies: @ricpic
  72. prosa123 says:

    Germans en mass began to Americanize their names. Very German cities like Cincinnati or St. Paul removed German signs and changed street name.

    Many people like me who grew up in Connecticut are familiar with the story of the Hartford suburb of Berlin. After the outbreak of World War I its name suddenly became unacceptable. The local authorities wanted to change the name completely but figured that would be too costly, so instead they decreed that the name was henceforth to be pronounced to rhyme with Merlin. It is still pronounced that way. It’s an amusing story but unfortunately untrue, as the rhymes-with-Merlin pronunciation has been in use since the 1800’s.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  73. @anony-mouse

    My family had to change ours from Werner to Warner.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  74. i thought this was gonna be about germans in NYC. but it turned into, what happened to germans in america.

    what happened? they became americans.

    the only large group from europe who did. along with the english, they form the backbone of america. core americans in time order are english, dutch, scots, and germans. it’s not a coincidence they’re all germanics.

    you can count on italians now, but it took 100 years. you can usually count on poles.

    you can never count on irish or scandinavians. the french are reliable socialists.

    we drink lager instead of ale because of germans. we put up christmas trees in december because of germans. we have an interstate highway system because of germans. we got to the moon first because of germans.

  75. @Clifford Brown

    It is interesting to hear her pronounce her son’s name as “Donal”, in the Irish Gaelic fashion.

    Wikipedia sheds some light.

    …[The Isle of] Lewis has a linguistic heritage rooted in Scottish Gaelic and Old Norse, which both continue to influence life in Lewis. Today, both Scottish Gaelic and English are spoken in Lewis, but in day-to-day life, a hybrid of English and Scottish Gaelic is very common. As a result of the Scottish Gaelic influence, the Lewis accent of Highland English is frequently considered to sound more Irish or Welsh than stereotypically Scottish in some quarters.

  76. bomag says:
    @Mr McKenna

    A video urging Whites to adopt a racial identity.

    “Paul Joseph Watson notes many of the problems of the West—drugs, low birth rates, alcoholism, suicide, mindless consumerism—but he thinks nothing can be done about them. He’s wrong. What the West lacks is confidence and racial identity. If whites regain the spirit of loyalty to their race and love of their heritage, they will save their civilization. No one else can save it for them.”

    • Replies: @Mr McKenna
  77. Anonymous[198] • Disclaimer says:
    @utu

    With the Civil War still in living memory, the American ruling class took national unity VERY seriously.

  78. Hanzy says:
    @syonredux

    They’ve had a bad rep since the 1890s (cf their use by the Spanish in Cuba and the British in South Africa).

    Well, to make it more personal, the Andersonville concetration camp, and others during the civil war, could be charged with giving concentration camps “a bad name,” but they didn’t stop the strategic employment of them as a tool to mitigate guerilla activity.

    Nothing did till Hitler.

    There were many reasons why everything went wrong with Germany’s concentration camps. It’s hard to maintain their original intent when you’re getting the hell bombed out of your country every night, as your “hostages” are consuming food resources while your field troops are going hungry in a two front war.

    I still maintain that bringing back the concentration camp strategy would serve to cut all kinds of asymmetrical warfare strategies, including the bum-rushing of our borders. Five years in a work camp would cure many a Mexican’s itch to travel to the United States. And we could get some roads paved, and infrastructure repaired much faster and far cheaper.

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @guest
    , @Anonymous
  79. Anon[336] • Disclaimer says:
    @ben tillman

    People in New York think of it as some sort of Rome, whereas Cincinnati is the more suitable comparison.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
  80. @YorkvilleHungo

    Paprikas Weiss was still around until relatively recently

    • Replies: @Jack D
  81. The classic A Tree Grows in Brooklyn is the half-memoir/half-fiction tale by a woman who grew up in Brooklyn during the 1910s-1920s. She’s half Irish and Half-German. She makes a point in the tale to make her German grandfather seem so nasty that he wouldn’t even bother to learn English or fraternize with his children or grandchildren. The author is far more in love and closer with her Irish side, even though she loves her German mother.

    Then later on in the work—during WWI—we get snippets of German-Americans talking about how they’re gonna change their names because they’re embarrassed to be German and are patriotic, loyal Americans.

    Then at another point the Irish neighborhoods and the German neighborhoods get into loud singing contests, which the Irish drown on the Germans—symbolism.

    I think those are some clues.

  82. @Clifford Brown

    When I was a kid , Sunset Park was wall to wall Scandinavian. I grew up next neighborhood over in Borough Park.

    • Replies: @Daniel H
  83. anon[853] • Disclaimer says:

    Some of these Germans came to Altus, Arkansas and started Wiederkehr Wines. In spite of assimilating and becoming passable hillbillies they still made good wine and taught the rest of us to pronounce ‘Wiederkehr”.

  84. utu says:
    @Ron Unz

    During World War I, U.S. Government Propaganda Erased German Culture
    https://www.npr.org/2017/04/07/523044253/during-world-war-i-u-s-government-propaganda-erased-german-culture

    Legal historian Paul Finkelman says in 1915 about 25 percent of all high school students in America studied German.

    “Hans Kuhnwald, the concertmeister of the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra, was interned; the German language was forbidden; the German-American press was heavily censored; libraries had to pull German books off the shelves; German-American organizations were targeted,”

    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2017/03/11/anti-german-hysteria-city-during-wwi/98895422/
    German-Americans felt pressured to prove their loyalty. German street names were changed: Bremen Street to Republic, German Street to English. The German National Bank became Lincoln National Bank. The German Mutual Insurance Co. became Hamilton County Insurance.

    The war ended Nov. 11, 1918, but the anti-German sentiment didn’t fade right away. In 1919, the Ohio state legislature passed the Ake Law, banning German language instruction before the eighth grade, and the following year Prohibition began.

  85. @Desiderius

    My family had to change ours from Werner to Warner.

    My grandfather didn’t. An unrelated man in the next county with the same surname did.

    The difference? That guy was alone. Grandpa had six brothers.

    My other grandfather was in NYC, with loads of other Krauts to stick up for him on the playground.

    I once helped a white lady named Whitekiller. Really. Her daughter was with her, and was presumably half-Indian. I hope she had no sons. Girls change their names as a matter of course.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
  86. @utu

    German street names were changed:

    Particularly ridiculous was Berlin Avenue in Rockford, Ill. It became Rockford Avenue.

    What makes it ridiculous is its placement– right after Chicago, London, Paris, and Rome.

    Yeah, right.

    The war ended Nov. 11, 1918, but the anti-German sentiment didn’t fade right away. In 1919, the Ohio state legislature passed the Ake Law, banning German language instruction before the eighth grade, and the following year Prohibition began.

    Nebraska rather stupidly made English the state’s “official” language around that time. No other state had one, except Louisiana and perhaps New Mexico. (For obvious reasons. Opinion is divided on whether English and Spanish are actually official in the latter.)

    Normal places do not have or need “official languages”. Everybody already knows what to speak.

  87. His name was often anglicized to Henry Louis Gehrig …

    Same with Henry Louis Mencken, Ruth’s fellow Baltimore native. Mencken wrote about his middle name.

    Gehrig is the victim of one of baseball’s biggest frauds. Cal Ripken Jr went on strike more than once, voluntarily, and thus his claim to Gehrig’s major league record is highly suspect. Benching yourself breaks as streak just as much as the manager’s doing so. But the truth doesn’t sell tickets.

    The late Sachio Kinugasa should rightly hold the world record. Kinugasa was a guest at Ripken’s supposed record-setting and acted with the expected (half-) Japanese humility and courtesy.

    • Replies: @prosa123
    , @R.G. Camara
  88. Paul says:

    That is interesting because my understanding has been that Lou Gehrig looked down on Babe Ruth for drinking, cigar smoking, and skirt chasing.

    • Replies: @guest
    , @Flip
  89. A little-noted episode in German-American history: In 1912, women’s suffrage was put on the ballot in Wisconsin. (Only men voted; the suffragists had learned never to let women themselves decide this.)

    The measure carried the Scandinavian counties near the Minnesota border– women already voted in the old countries– but bombed elsewhere, particularly in very German Milwaukee. Now Catholic Germans could be rather conservative, coming from the Rheinland and Bavaria, but the Prussians and other Protestants leaned quite heavily to socialism, even electing a Socialist government in the city of Milwaukee.

    Wisconsin Women’s Suffrage Referendum, Question 4 (1912)

    You’d think socialists and other lefties would be all for this piece of Progressivism, but they rose up and blocked it. (I was going to say “slam dunk”, but it was more like goaltending.)

    The question is, what drove them? Suffragism was in the potato sack with Prohibitionism, obviously, and these were Germans, not abstemious Swedes. But a few years later the state ratified both amendments.

    Progressivism in general was, as Steve has pointed out, an unspoken racial movement for middle-class WASPs. And minimum wages and maximum hours for women were opposed by the League of Women Voters (unless they applied to both sexes), but very popular with union men.

    • Replies: @guest
  90. Paul says:

    “The late Sachio Kinugasa should rightly hold the world record. Kinugasa was a guest at Ripken’s supposed record-setting and acted with the expected (half-) Japanese humility and courtesy.”

    Wrong! That ignores the high school and other games played.

  91. sb says:

    Just to give the perspective from another Anglo founded immigrant society : Australia .
    Germans, Dutch, Nordics -those with North Western European ancestry generally ( dare I say Aryans ) have largely intermarried with Anglo Celts within a generation or two .

    Germans were by far the largest non Anglo Celt ethnicity in Australia before WWII but, admittedly with a bit of help from two World Wars , quickly blended into the dominant Anglo Celtic culture (many were farmers incidentally which probably contributed )

  92. @Clifford Brown

    Notable Scandinavians of NYC were Harry Nilsson, Axel Stordahl (Frank Sinatra’s musical director), and Minnesota Governor Arne Carlson.

  93. Even the Jewish chicken place on Third Ave. where I used to pick up Chicken soup and roasted chickens gave way to a yuppie market named Citarella, so I would say Manhattan’s Germans were essentially gentrified out of the market, along with a number of Jewish delis and even more Greek diners where you could get a good breakfast and a cup of coffee for less than $10. As the man once said, the rent is too damn high.

    BTW, a Starbucks in London that I used to waste time in when between between meetings closed recently, despite always being packed. Are we approaching the end of times?

    • Replies: @prosa123
  94. Bugg says:
    @Xjh

    Zum Stamstich is a German restaurant in Ridgewood, Queens that is still fantastic and filled every time I’ve been there. Couple of others like it in Staten Island. MY wife had a classmate with a very German name who went into a radio career in NYC. She was forced in the 1990s to change her surname to something less German. Still hear her doing the traffic reports every day under the phony name.

  95. Daniel H says:
    @Kaganovitch

    When I was a kid , Sunset Park was wall to wall Scandinavian. I grew up next neighborhood over in Borough Park.

    Yep. Plenty of beautiful blonde Brooklyn babes from Sunset Park, now it’s the newest Chinatown.

  96. Flip says:

    “I have often thought that the Germans make the best Americans, though they certainly make the worst Germans.”
    ― Karl Shapiro

    Assimilation into the Anglo culture and becoming generic mainstream white people. I think it is like Argentina where Italians blended with the earlier Spanish to become mainstream Argentines.

  97. anon[393] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dan Hayes

    no it revealed the bowery full of bums from delancey to 14st
    the germans mostly assimilated I belong to that sheet metal union and still plenty of germans in whats left of the whites after 40 years of supreme court ordered affirmative action but none of them live in the lower east side where i grew up or even the upper east side where i went to school at times they moved to suburbs
    the lower east side filled with russians poles ukrainians jews and finally puerto ricans and hippies and hipsters
    the german library is all thats left really and even back in the 60s and 70s the upstairs german collection rarely had more than one little old lady in it
    on the upper east side they held on a bit longer by the 70s most of the buildings supers were irish or german catholics as were store owners landlords and some of the elites but the wasps were dominant economically the closer to the park you got

  98. @syonredux

    “it wasn’t a good thing to be German in those days.”

    It hasn’t really stopped. I know a more recent German immigrant to NY (1990s). She got so tired of (((sniping))) about her ethnicity that she redefined herself as Swiss. Suddenly the former snipers became intriguingly interested in friendly relations.

    • Replies: @danand
    , @syonredux
  99. Veloman says:
    @Clifford Brown

    Trump’s mother was a maid in the household of Andrew Carnegie’s widow.

  100. Steve asks, “What Happened to NYC’s German Population?

    Answer: they assimilated into being just plain old Americans. Kinda like the Scots-Irish.

    I also stumbled across this interesting piece of Americana from the “old, weird” America yesterday on Youtube:

  101. Jake says:
    @Ron Unz

    Fun times.

    Anglo-Saxon is Germanic. Continental Germans do not need to melt into Yank WASP culture and identity. It is still Germanic – just a different tribe.

    Of course, the Continental Saxons were forced to move eastward by Charlemagne, who saw them as the worst of all Germanic tribes in terms of their love of raiding to murder, rape, and plunder. And Continental Saxony became central to the state of Prussia, from which flows directly, and inescapably, the forced centralization of Germanic states.

    WASP and Continental Germanic: po-tay-toe and po-tah-toe.

    • Replies: @Flip
  102. Jack D says:
    @Kaganovitch

    It’s been gone for 25 years so I wouldn’t call that recent.

    Here is a survey of where things Hungarian stood in Yorkville in 2006:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/07/arts/on-the-upper-east-side-memories-fueled-by-strudel.html

    Even most of those remnants are gone now. Time moves on.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    , @Kaganovitch
  103. @Jack D

    On the other hand the old country looks better every day, at least for Hungary. Not so much for the Merkelreich.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Flip
  104. prosa123 says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Gehrig is the victim of one of baseball’s biggest frauds. Cal Ripken Jr went on strike more than once, voluntarily, and thus his claim to Gehrig’s major league record is highly suspect. Benching yourself breaks as streak just as much as the manager’s doing so. But the truth doesn’t sell tickets.

    The 1994 player’s strike led to the cancellation of the season, so there were no games for Ripken to miss. In that sense it was no different than a (very long) series of rainouts.

    • Replies: @guest
  105. How did this story come to your attention @SteveSailer?

  106. Anon7 says:

    Or, as Linh Dinh writes in his excellent current article The Mekong Retains, Erases:

    Once colonized, any land breeds an entirely new culture and mythology that erase all that came before them.

  107. sayless says:
    @Clifford Brown

    Trump’s mother had several broken bones from that mugging and never really recovered.

    An onlooker chased and pinned the kid who did it. It turned out the guy’s house was going into foreclosure; Trump paid off his mortgage.

  108. @utu

    A church I attended many years ago started out being called The First German Baptist Church. In the mid-30’s it changed its name to Community Baptist Church because of all the negative feelings about Germany. This was part of its official history commemorated in pictures on the walls of the church.

  109. Jack D says:
    @Desiderius

    It’s not a coincidence – almost every ethnic enclave fades away when the source of fresh immigration stops. There are no more Italians in Little Italy in NY. People leave the home country when conditions are shitty, not when things are going great. S. Koreans have stopped immigrating to the US for the most part – some are even going back. So in another 40 or 50 years there will be no Koreatowns as the last of the old immigrants die off and their kids retire.

  110. danand says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Almost Missouri,

    During the 2000’s I and a small group of guys few model gliders on a nearly weekly basis. We would hike up hills all over the SF Bay Area looking for ideal spots where the prevailing winds produced the best conditions for flying. We also socialized a fair amount “off hill”.

    Getting to the point, sometime near the end of the decade as I approched the top of a hill, I could hear a small group of guys animatedly conversing in German. To my surpise one of them, was one of us; from our group. His cousins were visiting from Germany.

    When I asked, he told me that in his experience it was “better” just not to bring it up.

  111. Forbes says:
    @PV van der Byl

    His birth name was Warren Wilhem, Jr.

    • Agree: PV van der Byl
  112. What Happened to NYC’s German Population?

    Umhh…Why?

    Maybe they just became too much enamored with Hugo Boss unt Lagerfeld fashion craze of that times, and therefore the Good Americans finally caught forked-tongued-bratwurst- worshipers with their soiled lederhosens down?

    Just look at them:

    Ooops, bored identity’s fact checkered past somehow mixed up his Good Americans and Bad Americans file cabinets…

    That was, obviously, the picture of legendary emcee, DJ Jabotinsky visiting the best Kraftwerk Fun Club in New York.

    The year was 1940.

    Unfortunately for the revisionist history of electropop scene, meeting & greeting with so many glorious bystanders in only one other place besides Tarantino’s movie, was too much for Ze’ev’s old schmaltzy heart.

    He died.

    But before that, Jabotinsky promised that in the nearest future, his dedicated followers will bring authoban to all Good Americans…and all Good Americans will have so much winning that they may get even bored with the winning:

    And, one day, some Good Americans will say, ‘Please, we can’t take it anymore, we can’t win anymore like this, you’re driving us crazy, we’re winning too much, please, not so much.’

  113. syonredux says:
    @Almost Missouri

    She got so tired of (((sniping))) about her ethnicity that she redefined herself as Swiss. Suddenly the former snipers became intriguingly interested in friendly relations.

    Really? I was under the impression that lotsa Jews hate the Swiss (“They wouldn’t let us into Switzerland during the Holocaust and their scheming bankers stole my grandfather’s money!”).

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  114. syonredux says:
    @utu

    German-Americans felt pressured to prove their loyalty. German street names were changed: Bremen Street to Republic, German Street to English. The German National Bank became Lincoln National Bank. The German Mutual Insurance Co. became Hamilton County Insurance.

    If only we could get rid of all the Latinx street-and-city names in the USA…..Turn San Francisco into St Francis, San Diego to St James…..

  115. @Jack D

    It’s been gone for 25 years so I wouldn’t call that recent

    Damn, I’m getting old. I could have sworn it was around 10-15 years ago.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  116. What Happened to NYC’s German Population?

    I got this one, Steve! (Finally a question I know the answer to.)

    Same as what happened to Germans in the rest of the America–they are Americans.

    Germans, are almost the prototype of NW European Christian farming populations in having the Christian “marry your neighbor” culture, rather than marrying in your clan or tribe. They are also essentially a sibling people to the Anglo-Saxons, and do not carry a prissy chip on the shoulder we see from some other immigrant groups. So now they are simply–mixed in with others–Americans.

    As I’ve noted before, “immigration” in it’s current sense is unnatural. People do not voluntarily invite foreigners to share their land. It only happened in America as part of the Anglo conquest of America from the Natives. (Then continued past its sell-by through cheap-labor greed, and then was much later propagandized into an anti-nationalist cancer.)

    I think a fair analysis would suggest that Germans are the only significant immigrant group that has been arguably a net positive for America. They are better–more conscientious–farmers than the English, and arguably better mechanics and engineers. They haven’t caused too much political trouble and generate high social capital. They easily integrate to Anglo norms, the English language and intermarry. And their beer is just better. (I know there are partisans for the British style brews–no thanks.) The major ding, would be the traditional one–they are obedient, so now tend to be compliant followers of the narrative.

    All that said, i’m pretty sure if the Founders saw what the hell has happened now–spent even an hour reading our establishment newspapers–they’d go back and slam the door permanently shut to all, right in the Constitution.

  117. @Anon

    Nearly exact. Yet we’re still pretty German here, especially the west side Catholics among whom I now enjoy living.

  118. @Reg Cæsar

    Tangentially, Cal Ripken is what Alex Rodriguez would have been had he never left Seattle.

    In Baltimore, Ripken was a big fish in a small pond, and was very influential in team policy–e.g. he got his brother Billy signed several times to play second base next to him, and kept his old Dad working for them for years. He could call the shots. The local press was small and in his pocket, loving having a superstar around. So Ripken’s selfishness at the streak and his subpar numbers many years were often overlooked, as was his prima donna attitude.

    A-Rod self-consciously tried to model himself after Ripken, but thought he could go for the money (Texas) and the big time glitz (New York) while still controlling behind the scenes. But when he got to NYC he was no longer a big fish in a small pond, but just another big fish in a sea of big fishes. The prima donna manipulation that worked on the smalltime Seattle press and, to an extent, on the Rangers’ press was not going to work in NYC. Hence for years he got saddled with a “not a real Yankee” tag and a lot of boos.

    Another comparison is Brett Favre. Like Ripken and A-Rod, when he was a big fish in a small media pond (Green Bay), he was treated as a demi-god—note how even Sports Illustrated’s Peter King was tongue-bathing him every week in his columns. But Favre decided to pull his “I’m retiring every five minutes routine” and, then, stupidly went to the Jets, where Jenn Sterger exposed him as just another hornball prima donna.

    Had Favre just faded away in Green Bay, he’d have the same accolades as Ripken with no baggage, but because he used fake retirements to re-gain the spotlight his fading skills lost, and then went to the Jets, his false persona got exposed and he became an A-Rod like phony to most.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Hibernian
  119. @Reg Cæsar

    I once helped a white lady named Whitekiller. Really. Her daughter was with her, and was presumably half-Indian. I hope she had no sons. Girls change their names as a matter of course.

    Seriously. That name would be solid gold today–spot on with the zeitgeist. Print your own ticket. HYPS admission a mortal lock.

  120. guest says:

    I’ve been reading short stories about a fictional Pennsylvania town in the early 20th century, and it’s surprising to see Germans as a distinct ethnic group, with their own customs and patois. And though generally they possess low social standing along with Irish, “hunks,” and so forth, brewers are at least are among town leaders.

    Not only in New York but everywhere German identity has been smothered. Can you imagine someone H.L. Mencken today getting together little orchestras to play Schubert and drink beer? No, Oktoberfest is pretty much the extent allowed.

    As for New York specifically, I think of the beginning of Marathon Man, when a Jewish fellow recognizes the brother of infamous Auschwitz profiteer Laurence Olivier. They end up causing a massive explosion running eachother off the road. That’s about what might happen if you casually mention sauerkraut or the diplomatic policies of Bismarck at a cocktail party, I imagine.

  121. Flip says:
    @Jake

    Southeast English DNA tracks pretty closely with Northwestern Germans which is what you would expect.

  122. Flip says:
    @Desiderius

    I wonder why Poles would leave Poland these days for America.

  123. guest says:
    @prosa123

    No different only if Cal Ripken possessed about one one-thousandth of the power of God in creating rainfall. Because he’s part of the reason the season was cancelled.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  124. guest says:
    @Paul

    But he sure could hit them dingers!

  125. Flip says:
    @Paul

    I read somewhere (maybe here) that Ruth had an affair with Gehrig’s wife which is why he hated him.

    • Replies: @Dtbb
  126. syonredux says:
    @Hanzy

    Well, to make it more personal, the Andersonville concetration camp,

    That was a POW camp

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andersonville_National_Historic_Site

    There were many reasons why everything went wrong with Germany’s concentration camps. It’s hard to maintain their original intent when you’re getting the hell bombed out of your country every night, as your “hostages” are consuming food resources while your field troops are going hungry in a two front war.

    Things didn’t exactly go well with the British and Spanish camps….

    A report after the war concluded that 27,927 Boers (of whom 24,074 [50 percent of the Boer child population] were children under 16) had died of starvation, disease and exposure in the concentration camps. In all, about one in four (25 percent) of the Boer inmates, mostly children, died.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_concentration_camps

    In 1896, General Weyler of Spain implemented the first wave of the Spanish “Reconcentracion Policy” that sent thousands of Cubans into concentration camps. Under Weyler’s policy, the rural population had eight days to move into designated camps located in fortified towns; any person who failed to obey was shot. The housing in these areas was typically abandoned, decaying, roofless, and virtually unihabitable. Food was scarce and famine and disease quickly swept through the camps. By 1898, one third of Cuba’s population had been forcibly sent into the concentration camps.

    https://www.pbs.org/crucible/tl4.html

    • Replies: @Hanzy
  127. guest says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Not unspoken, for instance in the mouth of a Margaret Sanger. Who was of Irish extraction I think, but was anyway carrying out the same “underman” control policies of the Anglo-Stopeses.

    It’s just that we’re not allowed to learn what progressives actually said at the time. Social Darwinism, for instance, was by and large them, not whatever it is comes to mind when the phrase is uttered now. Robber Baron libertarianism, or whatever.

  128. Jack D says:
    @prosa123

    Putting the emPHAsis on the wrong sylLAble when it comes to city names is a very American thing to do. You have BoGOta, NJ, VIEnna, VA, etc.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  129. @Steve Sailer

    Steve,

    You do realize that DJT’s paternal grandfather was stripped of his German citizenship and expelled from Germany, right?

    That would tend to dull one’s enthusiasm for the old Reich.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  130. @syonredux

    Franklin’s summation of opinion about and program for German immigrants seems absolutely spot on.

    You see stuff like this and are reminded of the yawning gap between the reasonableness and good sense we once got from smart people in the Anglo-Saxon empirical tradition and the unhinged ethnic-animus and general lunacy we get from our establishment “intellectuals” today.

  131. guest says:
    @Hanzy

    Andersonville was not by any stretch of the term filled by “guerillas.”

    • Replies: @Hanzy
  132. syonredux says:
    @Anonymous

    A lot of east coast Germans got sent back to Germany in the aftermath of the World War I hysteria.

    An insignificant percentage.

  133. Jack D says:
    @Kaganovitch

    Ain’t that the truth. Stuff from the ’70s is now considered “vintage”. I have stuff from the ’70s that I bought new.

    I can’t separate that place in my mind from H. Roth & Sons (Lekvar by the Barrel) which was a similar outfit at 1st Ave & 82nd St. A lot of the “Hungarians” in NY were actually Jewish, although there were non-Jewish ones also.

  134. Jack D says:
    @PV van der Byl

    It seems like a German bureaucratic foul up since millions of other Germans left without issue. Apparently when grandpa Trump left for America in 1885 he forgot to de-register for the draft (or maybe it wasn’t quite legal to do so). Then when he wanted to retire back home in 1905 he was still down in the books as a draft evader and they wouldn’t let him go back. In the meantime, he had run a brothel in Alaska so this was good preparation for what his grandson has to do in Washington.

    • Replies: @PV van der Byl
  135. Hanzy says:
    @syonredux

    Andersonville was a POW camp, but in the broad sense, it was a concentration camp, “concentration” being the key word. It’s intent is to coral adverse actors, or potential ones in a conflict.

    The point remains that their main utility is to stop or severely disable asymmetrical warfare.

    A good case could be made that Mexico is applying asymmetrical warfare, by importing their constituency into our country. Essentially an “invasion” without violent coercion. They use our shallow sense of humanity as a weapon against us.

    And again, the best tool for thwarting the invasion is the concentration camp.

    Concentration camps work great. Without them, asymmetrical warfare as an option that will ALWAYS be utilized. With them, AW is loser’s game for the opponent.

    • Replies: @guest
    , @syonredux
    , @Anonymous
  136. @Jack D

    Jack, apparently old man Trump departed for the US just a month or so before his mandatory military service was to begin and returned just a few months after he reached the age when all military obligation stopped.

    He did manage to get back to Germany with his wife for a little while but some people in the neighborhood brought his situation to the attention of the Kaiser’s servants and he was unceremoniously stripped of his German citizenship and booted from the country.

    He returned to the US immediately.

  137. Hanzy says:
    @guest

    Andersonville was not by any stretch of the term filled by “guerillas.”

    I never said they were. What are you, high? Guerilla’s are just one of the players, and Andersonville certainly had a share of them.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  138. @syonredux

    Yeah, probably they do, if not as much as the Germans. OTOH, maybe they anticipate having need of “scheming bankers” themselves.

  139. @guest

    You could excuse him if he voted against the strike. But he was very vocal in support of it, so that’s not likely.

  140. @R.G. Camara

    Green Bay’s media market includes Milwaukee and Madison, so it’s not small, but medium. Plus, they’re among the few teams lucky enough to enjoy a following all over.

    The Jets, however, share with the Raiders the ignominity of not dominating a single US county in Facebook’s reckoning. (The Pack owns every county in its state, plus spillover into Iowa and Michigan.) New York’s sport scene is Snow Pinstripes and the Eight Dwarfs. If media were Favre’s goal, his thinking was as dyslectic as how he says his name.

    His ultimate insult to the cheeseheads wasn’t choosing the Jets, but going to that expansion team across the St Croix. And doing well.I

    As for Ripken, Bill James took him to task for staying in the lineup while underperforming. But who knows? Maybe that sells more tickets.

    • Replies: @R.G. Camara
  141. ricpic says:

    First of all a very high percentage of German Americans have long since lost anything distinctly German about them through the process of intermarriage with WASPS, Irish Americans, Swedish and Norwegian Americans, Polish Americans, Italian Americans, French Americans, you name it. This has been going on for so many generations that they have essentially blended into the mixed or mongrel American stock.

    Secondly I doubt there is much if any animus toward Germans, let alone German Americans at this late date, almost 75 years after the end of WW II.

    • Replies: @guest
    , @Desiderius
  142. prosa123 says:
    @Mr McKenna

    An old-time New Yorker told me that on the Upper West Side, people on the sidewalks would actually kick weiner dogs during the war. But he said it about WW2 IIRC.

    Guess they didn’t dare kick a German Shepherd or Rottweiler.

  143. prosa123 says:
    @Anonymous

    Alexander Stuart-Houston, the oldest male descendant of the Nazi dictator, was tracked down to a town in Patchogue, Long Island, New York state, by German newspaper Bild.

    Patchogue (just south of where I am) has a big Mexican and Salvadoran population. I wonder how Hitler’s descendants get along with them.

    • Replies: @peterike
    , @J.Ross
  144. prosa123 says:
    @The Alarmist

    Manhattan’s Germans were essentially gentrified out of the market, along with a number of Jewish delis and even more Greek diners where you could get a good breakfast and a cup of coffee for less than $10.

    Many of the Greek diners in the NY metro area have closed in recent years, even ones that didn’t face rent increases. There are a variety of reasons, but the main one seems to be that the descendants of the Greek immigrants who started the diners aren’t particularly interested in carrying on the family businesses. With very little ongoing immigration from Greece there is no new generation of immigrants to carry on the tradition.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  145. ricpic says:
    @Ted Plank

    Henry Miller never stopped hating his extremely literal minded “wash and put away the dishes immediately after eating, everything in its place” mother. His whole life was a rebellion against the German obsession with order and industry, though he became a disciplined workaholic writer himself.

  146. Hibernian says:
    @R.G. Camara

    The Pack chose the Jets for him by trading him because he wouldn’t be Rodgers’ backup. (They’d decided it was time to promote Rodgers as a result of Favre’s prima donnaism.) Favre soon after went to the Vikings in free agency, which caused him to be really hated in Green Bay; he’s only recently been forgiven.

  147. Hibernian says:
    @Jack D

    Wrong pronunciations, too. Marseilles in Illinois is Mahr-Sells.

  148. @Reg Cæsar

    Perhaps “big fish in a small pond” is a bit of a misnomer in these circumstances. Perhaps “the only and most popular game in town” would be a better moniker.

    Brett and Cal could easily dominate the media in such markets and reporters were happy to oblige, as could A-Rod, (“access journalism”) , but when Brett and A-Rod left for NYC, they couldn’t make a local reporter/fan worship them unquestionably—-and thus a lot more of their bad acts were exposed. In NYC, Brett and A-Rod were never the only game in town, nor even the main superstar (I get the sense A-Rod thought he’d improbably be a combination of Reggie Jackson and Cal Ripken in NYC).

    Of course, this “only game in town” strategy only works if you’re the kind of player who likes being the center of attention at all times and giving tons of interviews. Reds/Yankee Paul O’Neill was quite the opposite kind of player—he didn’t like being the full center of attention of a media, however worshipful. After some time with his home town Cincinnati Reds where he was celebrated as a local hero, he engineered a trade to NYC, where he was happy to be a forgotten also-ran amongst the Jeters, the A-Rods, and the rest of the NYC sports circus.

  149. Jack D says:
    @prosa123

    There’s always some new ethnic group in NY coming and going (the diner Greeks BTW had no special affinity for cooking, any more than Cambodians have a nexus with donuts – it’s just something that they lucked into and then one brought the next). The Jewish “candy stores”/luncheonettes are all gone. The Korean greengrocers are on their way out. The Puerto Rican bodegas are now run by Dominicans. A lot of new “Italian” restaurants are really run by Albanians, who have a remote connection to Italian cooking because Albania was an Italian protectorate (in the past a lot of pizza places in NY were run by Greeks). Then you have the “Kennedy Fried Chicken” places in the ghettos – these are run by Afghans. There’s no franchise fee – the name Kennedy Fried Chicken is in the public domain. It’s an ever changing parade. The only constant is that things change.

    • Replies: @prosa123
  150. @Anonymous

    The un-American hyphen makes them stick out, though.

    And “Brian Hitler” sounds right out of Monty Python.

  151. anon[305] • Disclaimer says:

    They intermarried with the rest of us and just became white, like the Irish and Italians did before them, and exactly like the Mexicans are doing now.

    • Replies: @guest
  152. peterike says:
    @prosa123

    Patchogue (just south of where I am) has a big Mexican and Salvadoran population. I wonder how Hitler’s descendants get along with them.

    I know exactly where that Hitler relative house is. And it’s not even close to Patchogue. They probably did him a solid and deliberately mis-stated its location.

  153. prosa123 says:
    @Jack D

    Then you have the “Kennedy Fried Chicken” places in the ghettos – these are run by Afghans. There’s no franchise fee – the name Kennedy Fried Chicken is in the public domain.

    A few years ago I happened to come across a Kennedy Fried Chicken on Broadway in Sunnyside, Queens, right by the 46th Street subway station. Not a ghetto area by any means. Of course I had to try some, and to my pleasant surprise it was more flavorful and less greasy than the “real” KFC.
    I was by there about a year ago and unfortunately it was under a different name. Didn’t try it.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  154. Dtbb says:
    @Flip

    She was a real piece of work. The prototype SJW.

  155. J.Ross says: • Website
    @prosa123

    Mexicans have an inexplicable love of Nazism and the Germans are historically infatuated with South America. Also, I can’t imagine it would ever come up.

    • Replies: @guest
  156. Jack D says:
    @prosa123

    These restaurants are each the personal property of the individual owner despite having the same name and pretty much the same menu. Some may be very good, some may be awful.

    The ones in the deepest, darkest parts of the ghetto have bulletproof glass separating the customers from the staff, which really lends a charming and surrealistic touch. When you step into the restaurant, you are on the wrong side of the cage and implicitly out there among the hyenas.

    • Replies: @prosa123
  157. prosa123 says:
    @Jack D

    Ones in the deepest, darkest parts of the ghetto have bulletproof glass separating the customers from the staff, which really lends a charming and surrealistic touch. When you step into the restaurant, you are on the wrong side of the cage and implicitly out there among the hyenas.

    As takeout Chinese restaurants are in all sorts of areas, the presence or absence of these barriers are a good way of judging a neighborhood’s safety.

  158. guest says:
    @ricpic

    Sounds reasonable, but what about those other groups you mention? Do not Irish-Americans and Italian-Americans have an identity? Their subcultures may be ersatz, but they exist. We don’t even pretend German-American culture exists outside the month of October. And perhaps when an oompah band passes by.

    Speaking as a Minnesotan, I know Norwegian- and Swedish-American culture persists. Heck, there’s even Czech culture nearby. I live in what used to be heavily ethnic German territory, which I know because I can see German words on headstones in a local cemetery. But there’s virtually no vestiges of them. On the other hand, I can drive around town seeing shamrocks and listening to polka on the radio.

    • Replies: @Joe862
    , @prosa123
  159. guest says:
    @anon

    Irish and Germans came around the same time. Italians were later.

  160. Joe862 says:
    @Daniel H

    The irish are just worse people. “cunning and crafty” doesn’t produce anything. It’s the kind of thing that is admired by parasites and aspiring parasites. Since germans aren’t usually bad people I’d have expected them to turn away from places like NYC in disgust and go live productive, decent lives somewhere else.

  161. guest says:
    @J.Ross

    There is a significant German-Mexican community, and they came in after President Diaz, who kicked Emperor Maximilian out. Diaz was something of a Strong Man leader, and Mexicans like a Strong Man, I think.

    I wonder, though, whether the Mexican Romneys are down with that.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  162. guest says:
    @Hanzy

    What asymmetrical warfare do you have in mind regarding the Civil War? Because Andersonville was one conventional army holding on to prisoners of another conventionally army. It’s not like we’re talking Quantrill’s Raiders here.

    Of course, there was one irregular aspect in that Lincoln refused to acknowledge the Confederacy and therefore refused prisoner exchange. Which meant prisoners were kept in deathly conditions longer than they could have been.

  163. J.Ross says: • Website
    @guest

    They’re Mormons. Look deeper into Mormon “persecution.” Short answer yes.

  164. Joe862 says:
    @guest

    Germans are largely competent, productive people. They don’t need to cling to shamrocks or some other nonsense to make up for their inadequacies. They have Bach, Mozart and Beethoven. Endless scientific accomplishments. Real contributions to humanity. They’ve done some amazingly horrible things too. I think this results in a different mentality than that of members of far less significant groups.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  165. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Joe862

    They don’t need to cling to shamrocks or some other nonsense to make up for their inadequacies.

    Do shamrocks have homeopathic properties? From nudity to Birkenstocks, Germans are the biggest devotees of quackery outside Japan.

    • LOL: PV van der Byl
    • Replies: @Joe862
  166. Coemgen says:
    @Steve Sailer

    Have you watched Turn: Washington’s Spies? It is rather melodramatic but is also quite historically accurate. It even includes some Germans/Krauts.

  167. prosa123 says:
    @guest

    Do not Irish-Americans and Italian-Americans have an identity? Their subcultures may be ersatz, but they exist. We don’t even pretend German-American culture exists outside the month of October. And perhaps when an oompah band passes by.

    Substantial immigration from Italy continued right up to the immigration restrictions of the 1920’s.* While almost all of the immigrants themselves are gone by now, many, many people still remember their immigrant parents or grandparents. This helps keep some vestiges of Italian-American culture alive. German immigration, in contrast, was much further in the past. Another factor is that Italy has had tremendous influence on our cuisine, even if many things have been Americanized; contrast with German cuisine, which scarcely exists in the US any more. Finally, Italy is a popular tourist destination for Americans, much more so than Germany.

    Irish culture still exists in the US in large part because it’s fun. Think leprechauns and shamrocks and St. Patrick’s Day.

    * = in parts of the northeastern US there was a small but not insignificant wave of Italian immigration after World War II, continuing into the 1950’s.

    • Replies: @guest
  168. guest says:
    @prosa123

    Leprechauns, St. Paddy, alcoholism, centuries of English oppression, the Potato Famine, the Troubles. Oh, what fun the Irish have, tra-la-la.

    • Replies: @Tony
  169. guest says:
    @John Burns, Gettysburg Partisan

    I mentioned reading short stories about a fictitious German-heavy town in early 20th century Pennsylvania, but even that was written by an Irishman (John O’Hara).

    Pennsylvania in particular I don’t know, but there are loads of famous German-Americans. At least some of them have to be from that state.

  170. Tony says:
    @Anon

    And one of them is investigating him.

  171. Tony says:
    @guest

    And of course the Irish curse.

  172. Neoconned says:

    When I was visiting NYC about 20 years ago we ate dinner at an old German restaurant on 86th street in Manhattan…..i was told that restaurant was “all that was left of” Little Germany or whatever they called the Krsut area….

  173. Joe862 says:
    @J.Ross

    doesn’t hold a candle to Catholicism. I don’t know what birkenstocks or homeopathic is. Sounds like you’ve got nothing.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
  174. @ricpic

    Now that Die Hard is the Nation’s Official Christmas Movie, German-Americans have another 75 years to look forward to.

    People need somebody to hate. Nazis are always handy.

    • Replies: @syonredux
  175. syonredux says:
    @Desiderius

    Now that Die Hard is the Nation’s Official Christmas Movie,

    Mine’s Gremlins. One of the best anti-immigration films. Besides, who wouldn’t kill an army of invading foreign hordes in defense of Phoebe Cates……

    • Agree: PV van der Byl
    • Replies: @1661er
  176. syonredux says:
    @Hanzy

    Guerilla’s are just one of the players, and Andersonville certainly had a share of them.

    I thought that Andersonville was full of regular army types.

  177. syonredux says:
    @Hanzy

    Andersonville was a POW camp, but in the broad sense, it was a concentration camp, “concentration” being the key word. It’s intent is to coral adverse actors, or potential ones in a conflict.

    That definition is a tad too broad for my tastes.

  178. 1661er says:
    @syonredux

    I forgot what’s her exact Hapa ratio. But for a while, she was the most high profile Asian-American actress in Hollywood. The story I remembered was that one of her grandparents was (White)Russian Jew running away from the Reds all the way to Shanghai, so one of her parents is half-Asian and only moved to US right before Japanese overran the Shanghai concessions.

    Who is the foreign horde in her family history?

    • Replies: @syonredux
    , @syonredux
  179. J.Ross says: • Website
    @Joe862

    Pretty sure there’s an age requirement to post here, sir.

  180. syonredux says:
    @1661er

    I forgot what’s her exact Hapa ratio.

    Birth Name: Phoebe Belle Cates

    Place of Birth: New York City, New York, U.S.

    Date of Birth: July 16, 1963

    Ethnicity:
    *75% Ashkenazi Jewish
    *25% Chinese

    Who is the foreign horde in her family history?

    I only care about the foreign horde in the film. Note the precision of the allegory. First you bring in one….but then it gets splashed with water and multiplies (chain migration+ high reproductive rates=invasion)……The first one is cute and well-behaved….but the later ones are vicious (second generation displaying higher rates of criminality + plus higher rates of “hate YT-ism”)….

  181. syonredux says:
    @1661er

    Talk about a redpill……This is verging on Camp of the Saints territory….

  182. Anonymous[195] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hanzy

    If you want to go even further back there were the British prison hulks of the Revolutionary War

  183. Anonymous[195] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hanzy

    Guerrillas have been around since forever, but the late 19th century combination of breech loading rifles firing smokeless powder made them much more effective than before. This is what concentration camps were ‘invented’ to counter.

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PastClassics
What Was John McCain's True Wartime Record in Vietnam?
Are elite university admissions based on meritocracy and diversity as claimed?