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What Did Trump REALLY Have Stashed at Mar-Lago?
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  1. It doesn’t matter what he putatively had “stashed.” To ask the question is to fall for the deceit. There is no excuse for the raid. One doesn’t even have to like the former president to understand this.

    • Thanks: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I mashed [AGREE] for your basic point that SHOULD be the case based on the US Constitution. A warrant signed by a judge (yeah, they found one who doesn't have the same standards otherwise) must specify a specific reason for the search - looking of this specific evidence of such-and-such a crime, etc.*

    At the level of Trump, the Deep State, Hillary, Hunter Biden, etc, there has been no rule of law for a long time. (I'm sure Trump is the least corrupt, but he is no principled Constitutionalist either.) One side tries to play by the rule-of-law while the ctrl-left doesn't give a damn about it.

    The story Hypnotoad brought up may be true, but even if Donald Trump had damning evidence of FBI corruption, would anything be done about it later, ever? I suppose if Trump wins in '24, he can try, but it won't get far using the rule-of-law. That's pretty much over with at that level.

    Even at the level of the Arbery case, we had prosecution-shopping (i.e. there shouldn't have been even an arrest), there were highly inappropriate sentences handed down**, and now double jeopardy due to the "hate crimes" stupidity that also not many here seem to have a problem with.

    Face it, in a Banana-Republican society, you will be forced to play it their way eventually. And people wonder why there have been all those "right-wing Juntas" in Latin America on a regular basis. Will it go that far here?

    .

    * This is why I hate the TSA while most others here don't seem to care about "muh Constitution". Searches are done without any specific reason. It's a violation of Amendment IV.

    ** I mean the one guy is in jail for a long time for videoing the incident. WTF??

    Replies: @International Jew, @Cloudbuster, @Curle, @Anonymous, @Travis B. Anderson

    , @Peter Akuleyev
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The raid is obviously justifiable. We don’t worship our leaders in this country. This is not Africa yet, as much as the Trump cultists wish we had a uniformed strong man living in a gold palace.

    Replies: @Anon, @AndrewR, @Stan Adams, @The Anti-Gnostic, @SunBakedSuburb, @GeneralRipper, @PhysicistDave

    , @Corvinus
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Occam’s Razor says that Trump was hiding boxes of mixed classified/unclassified documents at his home after pretending to have turned everything over—and was keeping them in a place only half a dozen people knew about—because there is incriminating evidence of past crimes.

    Replies: @Spud Boy, @Alden

    , @American Citizen
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Show me the man, and I'll show you the crime.

    Someone from the Soviet persuasion came up with that one.

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I'm undecided on whether there was something they actually wanted to retrieve, but the point remains true that the raid was unjustified.

    If it was an excuse to bring charges against Trump, we'll find out what they were "looking for" soon enough. On the other hand, if, as Sundance suggeats, they were trying to remove from Trump's possession evidence incriminating FBI/DOJ of corruption, we won't hear about anything unless it's "oh look a squirrel" materials.

  2. They weren’t there for anything Trump had: They were there to try on Melania’s all-American wardrobe.

    • Thanks: Not Raul
    • Replies: @D. K.
    @The Alarmist

    Where did she get a flag from well before she was born (Independence Day 1959, at the latest)?

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    , @PhysicistDave
    @The Alarmist

    The Alarmist wrote:


    They weren’t there for anything Trump had: They were there to try on Melania’s all-American wardrobe.
     
    Goes way back in the FBI.

    Am I the only one who remembers all those stories about J. Edgar Hoover?
  3. it’s just a distraction from the collapse/reset. i voted for that guy enthusiastically in 2016 and less enthusiastically in 2020. the facts are… he facilitated op warp speed, encouraged people to take experimental pharmaceuticals, signed off on CARES, haven’t said a thing about J6, let kwame kilpatrick out of prison, but doesn’t know who julian assange is. don’t get me wrong, if the ship’s going down, i’d rather hear him on the PA system, but holding out any hope he’ll do any good.

    • Agree: Thea
  4. If the rumor about Trump giving nuclear secrets to the Saudis are true, then all those photoshops of Trump in an orange jumpsuit that boomer Dems post to Facebook are going to become reality. There must have been some connection the Saudi-sponsored golf tournament, it seems like a plot from some 80s TV show.

    • LOL: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @Thea
    @Nodwink

    The Saudi connection, Jarvanka and refusal to aid January 6th defendants has soured me to him.

    But at least he does have the right enemies and he got people talking about the borders. I’d hate to see him arrested even if he did wrong. The FBI has done much worse to Americans.

    , @Nodwink
    @Nodwink

    Off topic, but: did you know that you got a mention in the Jeet Heer piece in Commonweal magazine? It was quite a good article, overall.

  5. My rank speculation: insurance, in the form of blackmail material.

  6. I already posted about this. It’s the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016. He’s got dirt on the Deep State that he kept as leverage. And they want it back. Bad.

    They want to indict him. But he can take them down, too.
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/08/11/part-3-why-did-the-doj-and-fbi-execute-the-raid-on-trump-a-culmination-of-four-years-of-threats-and-betrayals/

    • Agree: Russ
    • Replies: @michael droy
    @Hypnotoad666

    They are declassified, aren't they? Just not released.
    Not sure if that makes them classified info anymore or not.

    , @JR Ewing
    @Hypnotoad666

    I’ve never understood a sitting member of congress, or in this case an ex-president, or even a sitting president, hiding behind, “This stuff is so terrible. I wish I could tell you but it’s classified.” It’s such a terrible cynical bullshit excuse. Rand Paul does it all the time, Trump does it too.

    If it’s that bad and needs to come out, then let it out. The current president can unclassify anything he wants and can pardon you on the spot and if he doesn’t and the deep state apparatus come after you anyway despite public opinion, then that “rule of law” doesn’t need to be protected in the first place.

    Either you are an overseer or not. Either the government is ultimately accountable to the people ot it’s not. Transparency is required in a republican government. If “the people” really are in charge, then you can’t keep secrets from them and hide behind statutes whenever it’s convenient.

    So if Trump does have this smoking gun document, then he needs to release it and quit “negotiating”. If he’s really an iconoclast, he needs to start acting like one.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    , @Ian Smith
    @Hypnotoad666

    A pretty unimaginative cope. 🥱

    , @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    “I already posted about this. It’s the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016. He’s got dirt on the Deep State that he kept as leverage. And they want it back. Bad.“

    Lol. First, in order to secure the subpoena, the FBI had to show a judge exactly what they are looking for. The subpoena is going to be unsealed. Trump already said he will not contest it from being revealed. So it’s not that information you claim it to be. Why would the DOJ and Trump’s lawyers BOTH agree to have the subpoena shown to the general public if the information proved Clinton and FBI malfeasance?

    Second, given how Trump operates, had he possessed such information, he would have dumped it all on his social media platform and through his minions. After all, he talked about “draining the swamp”and promised to do it, so what better way after legitimately losing the election than to reveal to his supporters that dirt. Better yet, why not release a statement now that his intention was to show to the entire world this “proof”?

    You really are in over your head here.

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @Hypnotoad666

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Hypnotoad666

    It’s the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016.

    If he has this, I'm sure he has multiple copies stashed in different locations. He wouldn't keep it in his house.

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @Hypnotoad666


    I already posted about this. It’s the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years ...
     
    Nope. The president is the ultimate declassification authority. He could have declassified these documents, and anything else, anytime he was the president.

    Replies: @vinteuil, @Hypnotoad666

    , @AnotherDad
    @Hypnotoad666


    It’s the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016. He’s got dirt on the Deep State that he kept as leverage. And they want it back. Bad.
     
    If true, the problem here is obvious: Trump should have put this material out there.

    Wanting "leverage" so Trump can play some sort of game of chicken with the FBI and deep state is bullshit.

    That's the problem with Trump--it's always about Trump.

    Trump is objectively better on the interest of actual Americans than any president in decades. But the guy is an incredible narcissist.

    I don't mind giving our great leader getting all the pomp and circumstance, all the quasi-imperial lah-de-da. (Though my tastes run much more republican.) But at the end of the day, a real leader of any nation is supposed to put front and center the long term interests of the people of our nation. That's who he works for.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

  7. Anon[140] • Disclaimer says:

    I suspect he had nothing of significance there—what could he theoretically do with the information anyway, even if it were important?

    As with the constant use of the word “insurrection” in relation to the carnivalesque mob wandering into the Capitol on Jan 6, it seems to me that this is just further attempt to smear Trump in the media so that the general public has the sense—or “the vibe”, to use the parlance of our times—that he is unfit for the presidency.

    And I’d say it’s working. He attracts so much bad press, whether fair or unfair, I don’t think even Republicans now have the appetite for him to run. He just brings bad vibes, man.

    I’m not American so I don’t have a horse in the race, but I think DeSantis would be a better choice. He’s essentially a more diplomatic, mature, and ideologically coherent version of Trump.

    • Agree: Thea
    • Replies: @Intelligent Dasein
    @Anon

    I'm not quite ready to "Agree,'' but I think this theory merits some serious attention.

    , @Prester John
    @Anon

    I think that you've hit on all cylinders. Though I agreed with Trump's three legged platform of reducing our overseas military commitments, restricting immigration and rejecting "globalism" in favor of strengthening our economy, he was too much The Bull in the China Shop--the wrong person with the right message.

    DeSantis may be the better choice but...we'll see. Whomever the GOP (or any other political party for that matter) serves up as an opposition candidate the Bolshecrat Party seeks to destroy. They are fanatics who will take no prisoners--politics is their religion.

    Replies: @Coemgen

    , @Purple
    @Anon

    DeSantis is the same, they controlled and manipulated all politicians, and the elites have all of them in their pockets. The only one who will not care for anything whatsoever, who has no bad habit and who truly BELIEVES and WORSHIPS GOD. That person will have God's graces and blessings to take this country back. All the wars and chaos in the world today happening because of the sins of the people and God left them alone because they had kicked God out of their lives, their governments, their families, their schools... etc. So bis, SATAN moved in and took control of everyone, every nation and wage wars against good people, good Christians.

    , @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia
    @Anon


    I think DeSantis would be a better choice. He’s essentially a more diplomatic, mature, and ideologically coherent version of Trump.
     
    In a conflicted way, I used to think so too.

    But not now.

    I hope Trump runs, I hope he wins, and I hope he cuts a Genghis Khan like swath of destruction through the entire system.

  8. anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    One good idea is that the FBI ‘mole’ inside Mar-a-Lago who tipped off the feds, may ultimately be Trump himself, doing some world-class trolling again

    Trump tells Kushner or somebody that he has the mother lode of criminal stuff in his safe at Mar-a-Lago

    Word rockets up the pipeline to Chicago-born Jewish DOJ chief Merrick Garland aka Garfinkel … who rushes in with the raid order to Judge Bruce Reinhart, former lawyer for Jeffrey Epstein and now Temple Beth David synagogue trustee, Garland saying ‘Just sign it, we got ‘im this time!’

    FBI idiots spend 9 hours breaking into the safe, finding cocktail napkins and receipts from McDonalds – EPIC … half of America now ready to ban the FBI, Trump an icon again, all his failings forgiven

    Merrick Garland’s face and body language at the presser suggest he knows this was a real screw up – Garfinkel may be gone shortly after his 70th birthday in November

    • Agree: Kolya Krassotkin
    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    @anonymous

    I like your thinking.

    , @fish
    @anonymous

    I like your thinking too!

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @New Dealer
    @anonymous

    It also occurred to me that it would be quite plausible that Trump entrapped the DOJ. Didn’t he out a leaker at the White House by giving each suspect a different juicy falsehood? Anyway, back in the day he faked being his own P.R. guy, in order to manipulate media coverage, both as “John Miller” and “John Barron.” Whatever his policy imperfections, he is a genius at media manipulation and throwing his opponents off balance.

    , @PhysicistDave
    @anonymous

    anonymous[375] wrote:


    FBI idiots spend 9 hours breaking into the safe, finding cocktail napkins and receipts from McDonalds – EPIC … half of America now ready to ban the FBI, Trump an icon again, all his failings forgiven

    Merrick Garland’s face and body language at the presser suggest he knows this was a real screw up – Garfinkel may be gone shortly after his 70th birthday in November.
     
    Victor Davis Hanson has a column up at RCP arguing for abolishing the FBI:

    The agency has become dangerous to Americans and an existential threat to their democracy and rule of law. The FBI should be dispersing its investigatory responsibilities to other government investigative agencies that have not yet lost the public's trust.
     
    Not that long ago, VDH was a typical adherent of Conservatism, Inc.

    The whole case against Trump by the Trump-haters was basically that Trump was a bully. But the 8-8 Mar-a-Lago raid (oops! -- we're not supposed to say "raid," are we?) turns Trump into a martyr.

    The only thing that will save us from the ruling elite is that they have no understanding at all of ordinary people.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @James Speaks

  9. Ghislane Maxwell’s tapes.

  10. But was it in Melania’s underwear drawers.

  11. I like the idea that he’s got a copy of Hunter’s hard-drive.

    The FBI would have to search through that one.

  12. @Hypnotoad666
    I already posted about this. It's the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016. He's got dirt on the Deep State that he kept as leverage. And they want it back. Bad.

    They want to indict him. But he can take them down, too.
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/08/11/part-3-why-did-the-doj-and-fbi-execute-the-raid-on-trump-a-culmination-of-four-years-of-threats-and-betrayals/

    Replies: @michael droy, @JR Ewing, @Ian Smith, @Corvinus, @Harry Baldwin, @Jim Don Bob, @AnotherDad

    They are declassified, aren’t they? Just not released.
    Not sure if that makes them classified info anymore or not.

  13. Old copies of National Review.

    • LOL: fish
  14. “What Did Trump REALLY Have Stashed at Mar-Lago?”

    The Ark of the Covenant, and the Holy Grail.

    • LOL: Ron Mexico
  15. @Buzz Mohawk
    It doesn't matter what he putatively had "stashed." To ask the question is to fall for the deceit. There is no excuse for the raid. One doesn't even have to like the former president to understand this.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Peter Akuleyev, @Corvinus, @American Citizen, @Chrisnonymous

    I mashed [AGREE] for your basic point that SHOULD be the case based on the US Constitution. A warrant signed by a judge (yeah, they found one who doesn’t have the same standards otherwise) must specify a specific reason for the search – looking of this specific evidence of such-and-such a crime, etc.*

    At the level of Trump, the Deep State, Hillary, Hunter Biden, etc, there has been no rule of law for a long time. (I’m sure Trump is the least corrupt, but he is no principled Constitutionalist either.) One side tries to play by the rule-of-law while the ctrl-left doesn’t give a damn about it.

    The story Hypnotoad brought up may be true, but even if Donald Trump had damning evidence of FBI corruption, would anything be done about it later, ever? I suppose if Trump wins in ’24, he can try, but it won’t get far using the rule-of-law. That’s pretty much over with at that level.

    Even at the level of the Arbery case, we had prosecution-shopping (i.e. there shouldn’t have been even an arrest), there were highly inappropriate sentences handed down**, and now double jeopardy due to the “hate crimes” stupidity that also not many here seem to have a problem with.

    Face it, in a Banana-Republican society, you will be forced to play it their way eventually. And people wonder why there have been all those “right-wing Juntas” in Latin America on a regular basis. Will it go that far here?

    .

    * This is why I hate the TSA while most others here don’t seem to care about “muh Constitution”. Searches are done without any specific reason. It’s a violation of Amendment IV.

    ** I mean the one guy is in jail for a long time for videoing the incident. WTF??

    • Agree: Adam Smith
    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Achmed E. Newman


    those “right-wing Juntas” in Latin America on a regular basis. Will it go that far here?
     
    Why not? We already have a left-wing junta after all.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @The Alarmist

    , @Cloudbuster
    @Achmed E. Newman

    * This is why I hate the TSA while most others here don’t seem to care about “muh Constitution”. Searches are done without any specific reason. It’s a violation of Amendment IV.

    I agree with you. "Administrative searches" are a huge blight on our legal system. Terry v. Ohio was a terrible decision.

    , @Curle
    @Achmed E. Newman

    “but he is no principled Constitutionalist”

    If he were an principled constitutionalist he’d be President of an state. We’ve had no principled constitutionalists since 1865, just people trying to read the remaining scraps of the original document.

    , @Anonymous
    @Achmed E. Newman


    And people wonder why there have been all those “right-wing Juntas” in Latin America on a regular basis. Will it go that far here?
     
    Depends on if the CIA starts paying them.
    , @Travis B. Anderson
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Totally agree with your "hate crimes" observation. By definition hatred (or disregard for others' rights/humanity) is a part of any crime (aggression) against another person. How can that be criminalized separately, if not merely to allow the national government to "get you" if your state doesn't?

  16. I think Trump is a rather boring individual past the tweets

    So maybe a few Thank You Cards or Greeting Cards (really…on official letterhead) from World Leaders that he planned to put into his Presidential Library

    I would put money on that

    15 boxes would be about right

  17. Probably something showing crimes by the state. But so what? Remember Assange “revealing” that the government was spying on us? Remember Wikileaks “revealing” that war involves war crimes? No kidding. Thanks for the information. We know they are crooks. As long as we are fat nothing will happen.

    Side note: It is actually pretty worrisome that J. Biden would not have at least been briefed on this. That almost feels like the deep state telegraphing to him, “You’re next, and DeSantis won’t be helping you out of professional courtesy.”

  18. UFO reports.

    (I don’t think so but it’s definitely the most interesting story I saw.)

    Also this is not “unprecedented” &c. These a\$\$holes killed John and Robert Kennedy. Get a grip.

  19. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I mashed [AGREE] for your basic point that SHOULD be the case based on the US Constitution. A warrant signed by a judge (yeah, they found one who doesn't have the same standards otherwise) must specify a specific reason for the search - looking of this specific evidence of such-and-such a crime, etc.*

    At the level of Trump, the Deep State, Hillary, Hunter Biden, etc, there has been no rule of law for a long time. (I'm sure Trump is the least corrupt, but he is no principled Constitutionalist either.) One side tries to play by the rule-of-law while the ctrl-left doesn't give a damn about it.

    The story Hypnotoad brought up may be true, but even if Donald Trump had damning evidence of FBI corruption, would anything be done about it later, ever? I suppose if Trump wins in '24, he can try, but it won't get far using the rule-of-law. That's pretty much over with at that level.

    Even at the level of the Arbery case, we had prosecution-shopping (i.e. there shouldn't have been even an arrest), there were highly inappropriate sentences handed down**, and now double jeopardy due to the "hate crimes" stupidity that also not many here seem to have a problem with.

    Face it, in a Banana-Republican society, you will be forced to play it their way eventually. And people wonder why there have been all those "right-wing Juntas" in Latin America on a regular basis. Will it go that far here?

    .

    * This is why I hate the TSA while most others here don't seem to care about "muh Constitution". Searches are done without any specific reason. It's a violation of Amendment IV.

    ** I mean the one guy is in jail for a long time for videoing the incident. WTF??

    Replies: @International Jew, @Cloudbuster, @Curle, @Anonymous, @Travis B. Anderson

    those “right-wing Juntas” in Latin America on a regular basis. Will it go that far here?

    Why not? We already have a left-wing junta after all.

    • Agree: Kylie, Kolya Krassotkin
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @International Jew


    We already have a left-wing junta after all.
     
    No, no, no, you're not saying it right, I.J. The ctrl-left doesn't have Juntas. They have last-minute election re-counts, legislating judges, and occasionally people's revolutions, when the first 2 things don't cut it.

    Also, to get your terminology straight, remember, powerful Conservatives live in compounds. Powerful men on the left live in houses, on ranches, and sometimes in ranch houses. There was an exception made for The Kennedies, as some of them must be kept in a real compound for their own safety and the safety of the rest of us.
    , @The Alarmist
    @International Jew


    Why not? We already have a left-wing junta after all.
     
    Well, they’re more like a Soviet Politburo Gerontocracy.

    BTW, now that the Capitol is ringed with fortifications, it would not be incorrect to call it The Kremlin on the Potomac.
  20. Jeffrey Epstein’s guest list?

    But seriously, if Trump had any kompromat he would have used it already.

    I think all the FBI’s after is embarrassing items of a personal nature — love letters, a personal diary, etc. If they found anything like that, you can count on it to be leaked to the media.

    • Agree: S. Anonyia
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @International Jew

    I can't imagine Trump writing a diary, let alone love letters.

    , @Happy Tapir
    @International Jew

    Exactly. I think they were hoping to find naked pictures of Melania.

  21. @Hypnotoad666
    I already posted about this. It's the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016. He's got dirt on the Deep State that he kept as leverage. And they want it back. Bad.

    They want to indict him. But he can take them down, too.
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/08/11/part-3-why-did-the-doj-and-fbi-execute-the-raid-on-trump-a-culmination-of-four-years-of-threats-and-betrayals/

    Replies: @michael droy, @JR Ewing, @Ian Smith, @Corvinus, @Harry Baldwin, @Jim Don Bob, @AnotherDad

    I’ve never understood a sitting member of congress, or in this case an ex-president, or even a sitting president, hiding behind, “This stuff is so terrible. I wish I could tell you but it’s classified.” It’s such a terrible cynical bullshit excuse. Rand Paul does it all the time, Trump does it too.

    If it’s that bad and needs to come out, then let it out. The current president can unclassify anything he wants and can pardon you on the spot and if he doesn’t and the deep state apparatus come after you anyway despite public opinion, then that “rule of law” doesn’t need to be protected in the first place.

    Either you are an overseer or not. Either the government is ultimately accountable to the people ot it’s not. Transparency is required in a republican government. If “the people” really are in charge, then you can’t keep secrets from them and hide behind statutes whenever it’s convenient.

    So if Trump does have this smoking gun document, then he needs to release it and quit “negotiating”. If he’s really an iconoclast, he needs to start acting like one.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @JR Ewing


    So if Trump does have this smoking gun document, then he needs to release it and quit “negotiating”. If he’s really an iconoclast, he needs to start acting like one.
     
    I don't know why people are having trouble grasping this: The Deep State will put Trump in Guantanamo Bay for releasing classified information. Everyone thinks they know that "the President can declassify anything." But the Deep State begs to differ. They claim each of the heads of the three-letter agencies have to sign off. They also claim (have claimed) that Trump releasing documents while he's under investigation (which he always is) is "obstruction of justice."

    How'd you like to stake your life on whether a corrupt Democrat Judge in DC will agree with your legal position. Can you even imagine what it's like having the entire Regime and the Deep State dedicating all its resources to putting you in prison.

    Replies: @JR Ewing

  22. “What Did Trump REALLY Have Stashed at Mar-Lago?”

    Most recent press reports, that seem to be denied by Trump, use the word nuclear. But nuclear what? I would speculate nuclear+Iran or nuclear+Israel. It might have something to do with Trump wanting to inject himself into the Iran nuclear negotiations or spoil them somehow. At the extreme Trump was planning to attack Iran after he was reelected and Trump walked off with the papers as any such plans would be embarrassing and might make it impossible for him to be elected again. Supposedly, the EU is close to an Iran nuclear deal that the Biden Admin will accept.

    A tiny chance is nuclear+Russia, perhaps a plan for an arms control deal in the second term. On the other hand the insane Uhuru movement raid was about Russian collusion, and the Ds are hysterical about Russian collusion so maybe the Mar-a-Lago is a follow up raid on the Russian collusion insanity theme.

    Alternatively, non nuclear, it is something about Jan 6 that nobody cares about, but the Ds are hysterical about, so that might explain the insane Mar-a-Lago raid.

    • Agree: bombthe3gorgesdam
  23. Whatever he didn’t have stashed, the FBI found.
    Think about it.

    • Replies: @Old Brown Fool
    @George Weinbaum

    That is the point. The FBI is now more capable than Stasi and KGB.

  24. Presidential scrapbooks. They may have also purloined some of Melania’s lingerie. In celebrating J.Edgar Hoover’s upcoming 2024 centennial appointment as FBI head, the agency should be re-imagined with a transwoman director on par with Rachel Levine and other heroes. If she’s a woman of color then so much the better.

  25. See “Kiss Me Deadly” for the answers to this and many other questions

  26. @Buzz Mohawk
    It doesn't matter what he putatively had "stashed." To ask the question is to fall for the deceit. There is no excuse for the raid. One doesn't even have to like the former president to understand this.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Peter Akuleyev, @Corvinus, @American Citizen, @Chrisnonymous

    The raid is obviously justifiable. We don’t worship our leaders in this country. This is not Africa yet, as much as the Trump cultists wish we had a uniformed strong man living in a gold palace.

    • Agree: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Disagree: Chrisnonymous
    • Replies: @Anon
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Peter, I live in Africa and frankly I am disgusted and nauseated by the actions of a, so-called, law enforcement agency. In Africa we tend to try and stick to the letter of the law. Madmen like Idi Amin et al have kicked over the traces on occasion but have generally come to a bad end. From the outside it is painfully obvious that the Democrats are petrified of Trump running for office again. They appear petrified that he will win, again. Be sure that your sins will find you out.

    , @AndrewR
    @Peter Akuleyev

    GWB, among other criminal politicians, has never faced so much as a slap on the wrist for his crimes.

    , @Stan Adams
    @Peter Akuleyev


    We don’t worship our leaders in this country. This is not Africa yet, as much as the Trump cultists wish we had a uniformed strong man living in a gold palace.
     
    https://i.ibb.co/bLBYhX1/1-B19-A3-BA-36-AC-46-A1-AAAB-ABE00-AD0-B42-D.webp
    , @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Peter Akuleyev

    It's common practice to prosecute former Presidents in the USA and other Latin American countries. Trump remains politically popular (though he's way too old IMO) and a few key States could put him in the White House again. From the perspective of the Permanent State, this cannot be allowed to happen.

    Trump gets the flak because he's the one over the target. Ron DeSantis will get the same treatment. They'll call him the "Butcher of Florida," with COVID corpses piled up along the Florida roadways. Tearful Holocaust survivors on oxygen in biohazard suits will be wheeled out to say Ron DeSantis gave them COVID. Deranged teenaged girls will show their cutting scars and claim it's because Adolf DeSantis won't let them say gay. The FBI will investigate the Reedy Creek legislation (Disneygate!). This never ends and the MAL raid is just the latest iteration. If another Republican is ever elected (which I don't think is going to happen, see below) he should never set foot in D.C.

    Obama/Clinton was supposed to end history and give the bolsheviks their permanent victory. When that didn't happen it absolutely broke their minds; they will not let it happen again. And with election margins of victory routinely dipping into the margin of error, it never has to.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @SunBakedSuburb
    @Peter Akuleyev

    "strong man"

    The right side of the binary wants a strong man who has a hotline to Jesus. The left, in denial of their own religiosity yet mocking those who believe in a celestial king, want an all knowing, all seeing bureaucracy managed by layers of committees. Both streams have totalitarian elements. Life would be much better if more folks followed the path of Deism, like me and Thomas Jefferson -- two smart guys who prefer robes over pants.

    , @GeneralRipper
    @Peter Akuleyev

    You're not even close to being "an American", douchebag.

    It's not "your country", so do everyone a favor and STFU.

    , @PhysicistDave
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Peter Akuleyev wrote to Buzz Mohawk:


    The raid is obviously justifiable. We don’t worship our leaders in this country. This is not Africa yet...
     
    That is a racist comment about Africa.

    Who is your current employer?

    And is Peter Akuleyev your actual name?

    Your firing is obviously justifiable. We don't worship racists like you in this country.
  27. Immaterial – whatever is going on they only did it after passing their one and only legislation accomplishment for this congress.

    Now it all goes back to constant attacks on Trump while ignoring the economic mess that no one understands, the ongoing failure against covid (only 400 people a day are dying! Success!) and making life safe for people who want to sterilize and mutilate their children.

    Its fascinating to behold the entire apparatus of government mobilized against him while everyone slides towards a civil war.

  28. If Trump has documents on the so-called deep state, he’d be off his rocker to keep them at Mar-a-Lago. I believe this was a fishing expedition based on bullshit

  29. Breaking — FBI delivers subpoenas to Republicans who questioned The Steal…
    https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/breaking-fbi-delivers-subpoenas-to-republicans-who-questioned-the-steal/

    The theme of the recent FBI activity seems to be Jan 6 with, in the case of Uhuru, Russian collusion. Nuclear themes suggested by press reports seem less likely to me.

  30. If an aerospace worker took home a classified document and refused to return it, he would be severely punished. If that is what Trump did, he deserved the raid. Rules are rules.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Anon

    Before commenting on the documents Trump took with him when he left the White House; I suggest you read United States Civil Code Title 22 and Title 18.

    Hint the president of the United States is not an ordinary government worker.

    Obama took 33 million confidential secret and top secret documents with him. Every president since Washington took documents when leaving the White House

    Replies: @Supply and Demand, @Ron Mexico

    , @Gordo
    @Anon


    If an aerospace worker took home a classified document and refused to return it, he would be severely punished. If that is what Trump did, he deserved the raid. Rules are rules.
     
    Oh no they aren’t!
    , @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Anon

    Just like rules are for Hillary and her unauthorized laptop bullshit?

    , @Anonymous
    @Anon

    I would agree with you if Hillary Clinton had been punished for her security violations. She wasn't, so neither should Trump.

  31. Anon[280] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Akuleyev
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The raid is obviously justifiable. We don’t worship our leaders in this country. This is not Africa yet, as much as the Trump cultists wish we had a uniformed strong man living in a gold palace.

    Replies: @Anon, @AndrewR, @Stan Adams, @The Anti-Gnostic, @SunBakedSuburb, @GeneralRipper, @PhysicistDave

    Peter, I live in Africa and frankly I am disgusted and nauseated by the actions of a, so-called, law enforcement agency. In Africa we tend to try and stick to the letter of the law. Madmen like Idi Amin et al have kicked over the traces on occasion but have generally come to a bad end. From the outside it is painfully obvious that the Democrats are petrified of Trump running for office again. They appear petrified that he will win, again. Be sure that your sins will find you out.

  32. My guess is Trump has nothing. The raid was a setup for whatever they have planned next for the independent right. The Democrats got the next election in the bag due to cheating, so there is no worry about blowback. Plus they got so many armed agencies ready to kill the political opposition for whatever rinky dink violation that is found just to appease whatever remaining shred of morals their managed minions might have retained. If I am right and Trump was a mere setup man to get the left to abandon any principles other than the current minion making ones, then Trump survives to keep the left foaming like dying rabid animals. Short version the raid was contrived theater. Stop sending Trump money, and vote for non Democrat judges and sheriffs in off elections.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Troll: Eric Novak
  33. @Hypnotoad666
    I already posted about this. It's the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016. He's got dirt on the Deep State that he kept as leverage. And they want it back. Bad.

    They want to indict him. But he can take them down, too.
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/08/11/part-3-why-did-the-doj-and-fbi-execute-the-raid-on-trump-a-culmination-of-four-years-of-threats-and-betrayals/

    Replies: @michael droy, @JR Ewing, @Ian Smith, @Corvinus, @Harry Baldwin, @Jim Don Bob, @AnotherDad

    A pretty unimaginative cope. 🥱

  34. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The raid is obviously justifiable. We don’t worship our leaders in this country. This is not Africa yet, as much as the Trump cultists wish we had a uniformed strong man living in a gold palace.

    Replies: @Anon, @AndrewR, @Stan Adams, @The Anti-Gnostic, @SunBakedSuburb, @GeneralRipper, @PhysicistDave

    GWB, among other criminal politicians, has never faced so much as a slap on the wrist for his crimes.

  35. 33,000 Hillary Clinton emails, the contents of Hunter Biden’s laptops and phones, and a secret decoder ring from Ovaltine.

  36. He stole Hillary’s secret cookie recipe from the White House files.

    It can’t possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    The Left would like the President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government. For example, they were upset that Trump just pardoned whoever he wanted to pardon and didn’t follow the recommendations of some committee. They were upset that Trump expected the head of the FBI to take orders from him. They would like the President to be defanged like the British Queen where nominally she has vast powers but in reality she just does whatever she is directed to do by the permanent government so that she actually has no power at all and is just a figurehead.

    But that’s not how it works under our Constitution. The President is our the head of State, the Executive, the Commander in Chief. This means that he is different than ordinary mortals. He has the power of life and death – he can order hits on Zawahiri and it’s not murder. He can certainly declassify his own papers. Some bureaucrat in the CIA does not have powers of classification that are higher than the President’s – any power that the bureaucrat has derives from that of the President.

    This doesn’t mean that the President is above the law, if the law means something that has been passed by Congress and signed into law. But anything that is in the nature of Executive power, he is the ultimate authority. This is what Nixon meant when he said “When the President does it, it’s not a crime.” Nixon BTW was, in between being VP and President, a lawyer in NY at the head of his own good sized firm and as smart a lawyer as any, so he wasn’t bullshitting when he said this.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Jack D

    PS, the reason they want it this way is because the Left controls the unelected Permanent Government. The nation may be, even after all the Democrat dice loading, divided 50/50 and control of the White House and Congress shifts back and forth between R and D, but they are the permanent heads of the Permanent Government.

    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 - Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him. The Dem candidate, even losers like Mondale and Kerry, consistently gets 85-95% of the DC vote.

    The White House is not located in neutral territory but in an enemy capital. Capitals should be central to a country - when DC was selected it was central to the young country. When the US became a continental nation, the capital should have been moved to Kansas where it would have been more reflective of the country as a whole and not just one region.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Prester John, @Giant Duck, @Hypnotoad666

    , @Greta Handel
    @Jack D

    No, Jack


    But that’s not how it works under our Constitution. The President is our the head of State, the Executive, the Commander in Chief. This means that he is different than ordinary mortals. He has the power of life and death – he can order hits on Zawahiri and it’s not murder.
     
    that’s how it works despite our Constitution.
    , @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    The Left would like the President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government.
     
    Has the Supreme Court ever ruled on whether the president is licensed to kill like James Bond? I don't recall any questions about this in the citizenship exam.

    The problem with the president claiming to have the right to assassinate foreign leaders or generals is that by implication it gives foreign leaders the reciprocal right to assassinate the president if they can pull it off.

    Anyway the question to which we do not have the answer yet is whether Trump is supposed to have taken documents which were genuinely important to the security of the United States, or whether it was just some kind of silly technicality like taking menus and place cards for State dinners or the key to the Oval office bathroom paper towel dispenser.

    The US classification laws are in any case totally ridiculous and seem to be used more to defend the reputation of government officials than to protect military secrets or lives of US citizens.

    I would like to see the transcript of the discussions that Trump had with drug company leaders shortly after he was inaugurated. Why was this never released?

    I suspect that in the near future we will know a lot more about what Trump was alleged to have taken from the White House, so any discussion right now maybe moot by tomorrow.
    , @Corvinus
    @Jack D

    “It can’t possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.“

    Focus on the bigger picture.

    Agencies are required to review classification determinations upon a request for such a review that specifically identifies the materials so that the agency can locate them, unless the materials identified are part of an operational file exempt under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)53 or are the subject of pending litigation. This requirement does not apply to information that has undergone declassification review in the previous two years; information that is exempted from review under the National Security Act; or information classified by the incumbent President and staff, the Vice President and staff (in the performance of executive duties), commissions appointed by the President, or other entities within the executive office of the President that advise the President. Each agency that has classified information is required to establish a system for periodic declassification reviews. The National Archivist is required to establish a similar systemic review of classified information that has been transferred to the National Archives.

    Access to classified information is generally limited to those who demonstrate their eligibility to the relevant agency head, sign a nondisclosure agreement, and have a need to know the information. The need-to-know requirement can be waived, however, for former Presidents and Vice Presidents, historical researchers, and former policy-making officials who were appointed by the President or Vice President.

    **The information being accessed may not be removed from the controlling agency's premises without permission. Each agency is required to establish systems for controlling the distribution of classified information.**

    The Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO)—an office within the National Archives—is charged with overseeing compliance with the classification standards and promulgating directives to that end. ISOO is headed by a Director, who is appointed by the Archivist of the United States, and who has the authority to order declassification of information that, in the Director's view, is classified in violation of the aforementioned classification standards. In addition, there is an Interagency Security Classifications Appeals Panel (ISCAP), headed by the ISOO Director and made up of representatives of the heads of various agencies, including the Departments of Defense, Justice, and State, as well as the Central Intelligence Agency, and the National Archives. ISCAP is empowered to decide appeals of classifications challenges and to review automatic and mandatory declassifications. If the ISOO Director finds a violation of E.O. 13526 or its implementing directives, then the Director must notify the appropriate classifying agency so that corrective steps can be taken.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @MEH 0910, @Jack D

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    While I agree with both your good comments here, I will take a chance and argue with a lawyer on one point. (You're not a Constitutional lawyer, though, and it's a document meant to be readable by the layman.)

    No, the Constitution does not give the President power to kill people except during wartime - said "wartime" is determined by Congress with a Declaration of War. When was the last one of those?

    i.e., The President is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces during a declared war. The Founders weren't stupid, you know.

    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Jack D


    It can’t possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.
     
    I can't determine legitimacy but I've heard that this whole thing is based upon boxes of documents which the Archivist sent to Mar-a-Lago after Biden's inauguration. That's how you would lay a trap around the plenary power of the President with regard to records classification - just put a few top secret records in the fifteen boxes, then make a bad faith request that the Trump team engage in a snipe hunt to return the "classified documents."
    , @epebble
    @Jack D

    Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    That can't be true. Otherwise, a President can never accidentally (or otherwise) mishandle classified information. For example, many an eyebrow was raised when Trump hosted Russian Ambassador and Foreign Minister at the Oval Office for fear that some classified information may be leaked.

    Photos of Trump's closed-door meeting with Russian officials raise eyebrows
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/photos-trump-russia-sergey-lavrov-sergey-kislyak-oval-office-meeting/

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden, @Ben tillman, @Curle

    , @Bernard
    @Jack D


    The Left would like the President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government
     
    One important correction; The Left would like any Republican President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government
    , @Ben tillman
    @Jack D

    That might be your best comment ever.

  37. @International Jew
    Jeffrey Epstein's guest list?

    But seriously, if Trump had any kompromat he would have used it already.

    I think all the FBI's after is embarrassing items of a personal nature — love letters, a personal diary, etc. If they found anything like that, you can count on it to be leaked to the media.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Happy Tapir

    I can’t imagine Trump writing a diary, let alone love letters.

  38. @Jack D
    He stole Hillary's secret cookie recipe from the White House files.

    It can't possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    The Left would like the President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government. For example, they were upset that Trump just pardoned whoever he wanted to pardon and didn't follow the recommendations of some committee. They were upset that Trump expected the head of the FBI to take orders from him. They would like the President to be defanged like the British Queen where nominally she has vast powers but in reality she just does whatever she is directed to do by the permanent government so that she actually has no power at all and is just a figurehead.

    But that's not how it works under our Constitution. The President is our the head of State, the Executive, the Commander in Chief. This means that he is different than ordinary mortals. He has the power of life and death - he can order hits on Zawahiri and it's not murder. He can certainly declassify his own papers. Some bureaucrat in the CIA does not have powers of classification that are higher than the President's - any power that the bureaucrat has derives from that of the President.

    This doesn't mean that the President is above the law, if the law means something that has been passed by Congress and signed into law. But anything that is in the nature of Executive power, he is the ultimate authority. This is what Nixon meant when he said "When the President does it, it's not a crime." Nixon BTW was, in between being VP and President, a lawyer in NY at the head of his own good sized firm and as smart a lawyer as any, so he wasn't bullshitting when he said this.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Greta Handel, @Jonathan Mason, @Corvinus, @Achmed E. Newman, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @epebble, @Bernard, @Ben tillman

    PS, the reason they want it this way is because the Left controls the unelected Permanent Government. The nation may be, even after all the Democrat dice loading, divided 50/50 and control of the White House and Congress shifts back and forth between R and D, but they are the permanent heads of the Permanent Government.

    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 – Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him. The Dem candidate, even losers like Mondale and Kerry, consistently gets 85-95% of the DC vote.

    The White House is not located in neutral territory but in an enemy capital. Capitals should be central to a country – when DC was selected it was central to the young country. When the US became a continental nation, the capital should have been moved to Kansas where it would have been more reflective of the country as a whole and not just one region.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 – Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him.
     
    FYI the residents of Washington DC do not get to vote for President and Washington DC appoints no scholars to the electoral college.

    Replies: @SFG, @Mr. Anon, @aNewBanner, @Giant Duck, @Spud Boy, @res, @Hibernian

    , @Prester John
    @Jack D

    Your implied proposal (that the US capital be moved to mid-America) is actually not a bad idea. In point of fact, one of the reasons why the current location was picked was precisely because of its location--which was at that time roughly equidistant between Massachusetts (which included what is now Maine) and Georgia.

    It won't happen of course but, nevertheless, not a bad idea.

    , @Giant Duck
    @Jack D


    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 – Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him. The Dem candidate, even losers like Mondale and Kerry, consistently gets 85-95% of the DC vote.
     
    It is certainly true that most bureaucrats in the DC metro area vote Dem, but these stats are misleadingly slanted simply because it has been a very long time since rank-and-file federal government employees could afford to live in DC itself. They mostly live in VA and MD suburbs, and the younger ones live even further out, in the exurbs, sometimes all the way in West Virginia. Federal government salaries have not kept pace with the cost of housing in the close-in portions of the DC metro area - a run-of-the-mill house in Arlington, VA now costs 8 to 10 times the average federal government salary.
    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Jack D


    When the US became a continental nation, the capital should have been moved to Kansas where it would have been more reflective of the country as a whole and not just one region.
     
    Unfortunately DC creates its own region, wherever you locate it. The permanent bureaucrats and the camp-following lawyers, lobbyists, and consultants create their own left-wing grifter community.

    They really do need to get rid of DC as it's own judicial district, though. As any political case is now tried before a biased jury of authoritarian left-wing Democrats.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  39. This is all theater… it is the MSM and the Democrats (with their entrenched bureaucracy), controlling the news cycle and trying to avert a defeat in the mid-terms that would have them losing the House and the Senate.

    They don’t want Trump in jail; they just use him to enrage and rally their troops, for fundraising and votes.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Technite78

    I don't get this one, Technite. All these moves rally patriotic Americans (or MAGA types, not always overlapping) more than they do the left, IMO.

    Now if they want to distract us from other things, high inflation, asinine foreign policy, etc., I could believe that.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @Technite78

  40. What does Trump have stashed? My guess would be “nothing.” Trumps supposed kompromat has about the same degree of actuality as Saddam Hussein’s nuclear weapons program, and it has had precisely the same effect: Its hypothetical existence was used to justify an otherwise unjustifiable invasion, and its nonreality meant that he had nothing to fight back with. If Trump had kompromat, this would have been the time to use it, no?

    Trump’s astonishing failure to understand the nature of the Deep State forces around him is a never-ending source of disappointment. In his mind, this is all just some kind of complicated kayfabe that he will respond to in kind, because that’s how he thinks of the state. But in the Deep State’s mind, Trump is the leader of an insurrectious movement, and he needs to be set back a few pegs.

    In modern America, ever since the Age of Prohibition or so, a raid by federal agents has had but one meaning: “Don’t play here. You can be any kind of cult leader or backwoods survivalist or mafia kingpin you want over there, but the government reserves certain lines for itself, so don’t cross them.” Trump’s tragedy is that he became the unlikely leader of a very legitimate and necessary populist revolt, but he thinks the crowds are cheering for him personally and not for the liberty he promised. Meanwhile, he thinks that that the Deep State isn’t so much against the liberty he promised but is just gunning for him personally. He gets everything backwards.

    • Replies: @Marat
    @Intelligent Dasein

    ID, that's the best summary I've ever read about Trump.

    His huge ego makes him effective, but also keeps him from understanding his important historical role. On the one hand, his huge hide keeps him insulated from attacks that would crush weaker egos. On the other hand, the huge ego sees himself as leader of the deep state rather than his hostile role of an outside conqueror. (That, plus he is simply not in the least theoretical, but he gets by on good instincts.)

    The gliteratti of East 69th St never gave him the time of day. Now the state-dependent, grimy DC bureaucrat class want his scalp - but they'll have to spend a wad of "legitimacy" capital to get it. Hopefully he has changed his mind about wooing either camp and maybe read a history book or two.

    , @Peter D. Bredon
    @Intelligent Dasein


    he thinks the crowds are cheering for him personally and not for the liberty he promised.
     
    Given their slavish adulation, he's not wrong.
  41. @International Jew
    Jeffrey Epstein's guest list?

    But seriously, if Trump had any kompromat he would have used it already.

    I think all the FBI's after is embarrassing items of a personal nature — love letters, a personal diary, etc. If they found anything like that, you can count on it to be leaked to the media.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @Happy Tapir

    Exactly. I think they were hoping to find naked pictures of Melania.

  42. @Jack D
    He stole Hillary's secret cookie recipe from the White House files.

    It can't possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    The Left would like the President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government. For example, they were upset that Trump just pardoned whoever he wanted to pardon and didn't follow the recommendations of some committee. They were upset that Trump expected the head of the FBI to take orders from him. They would like the President to be defanged like the British Queen where nominally she has vast powers but in reality she just does whatever she is directed to do by the permanent government so that she actually has no power at all and is just a figurehead.

    But that's not how it works under our Constitution. The President is our the head of State, the Executive, the Commander in Chief. This means that he is different than ordinary mortals. He has the power of life and death - he can order hits on Zawahiri and it's not murder. He can certainly declassify his own papers. Some bureaucrat in the CIA does not have powers of classification that are higher than the President's - any power that the bureaucrat has derives from that of the President.

    This doesn't mean that the President is above the law, if the law means something that has been passed by Congress and signed into law. But anything that is in the nature of Executive power, he is the ultimate authority. This is what Nixon meant when he said "When the President does it, it's not a crime." Nixon BTW was, in between being VP and President, a lawyer in NY at the head of his own good sized firm and as smart a lawyer as any, so he wasn't bullshitting when he said this.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Greta Handel, @Jonathan Mason, @Corvinus, @Achmed E. Newman, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @epebble, @Bernard, @Ben tillman

    No, Jack

    But that’s not how it works under our Constitution. The President is our the head of State, the Executive, the Commander in Chief. This means that he is different than ordinary mortals. He has the power of life and death – he can order hits on Zawahiri and it’s not murder.

    that’s how it works despite our Constitution.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  43. @Jack D
    He stole Hillary's secret cookie recipe from the White House files.

    It can't possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    The Left would like the President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government. For example, they were upset that Trump just pardoned whoever he wanted to pardon and didn't follow the recommendations of some committee. They were upset that Trump expected the head of the FBI to take orders from him. They would like the President to be defanged like the British Queen where nominally she has vast powers but in reality she just does whatever she is directed to do by the permanent government so that she actually has no power at all and is just a figurehead.

    But that's not how it works under our Constitution. The President is our the head of State, the Executive, the Commander in Chief. This means that he is different than ordinary mortals. He has the power of life and death - he can order hits on Zawahiri and it's not murder. He can certainly declassify his own papers. Some bureaucrat in the CIA does not have powers of classification that are higher than the President's - any power that the bureaucrat has derives from that of the President.

    This doesn't mean that the President is above the law, if the law means something that has been passed by Congress and signed into law. But anything that is in the nature of Executive power, he is the ultimate authority. This is what Nixon meant when he said "When the President does it, it's not a crime." Nixon BTW was, in between being VP and President, a lawyer in NY at the head of his own good sized firm and as smart a lawyer as any, so he wasn't bullshitting when he said this.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Greta Handel, @Jonathan Mason, @Corvinus, @Achmed E. Newman, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @epebble, @Bernard, @Ben tillman

    The Left would like the President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government.

    Has the Supreme Court ever ruled on whether the president is licensed to kill like James Bond? I don’t recall any questions about this in the citizenship exam.

    The problem with the president claiming to have the right to assassinate foreign leaders or generals is that by implication it gives foreign leaders the reciprocal right to assassinate the president if they can pull it off.

    Anyway the question to which we do not have the answer yet is whether Trump is supposed to have taken documents which were genuinely important to the security of the United States, or whether it was just some kind of silly technicality like taking menus and place cards for State dinners or the key to the Oval office bathroom paper towel dispenser.

    The US classification laws are in any case totally ridiculous and seem to be used more to defend the reputation of government officials than to protect military secrets or lives of US citizens.

    I would like to see the transcript of the discussions that Trump had with drug company leaders shortly after he was inaugurated. Why was this never released?

    I suspect that in the near future we will know a lot more about what Trump was alleged to have taken from the White House, so any discussion right now maybe moot by tomorrow.

  44. @Jack D
    He stole Hillary's secret cookie recipe from the White House files.

    It can't possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    The Left would like the President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government. For example, they were upset that Trump just pardoned whoever he wanted to pardon and didn't follow the recommendations of some committee. They were upset that Trump expected the head of the FBI to take orders from him. They would like the President to be defanged like the British Queen where nominally she has vast powers but in reality she just does whatever she is directed to do by the permanent government so that she actually has no power at all and is just a figurehead.

    But that's not how it works under our Constitution. The President is our the head of State, the Executive, the Commander in Chief. This means that he is different than ordinary mortals. He has the power of life and death - he can order hits on Zawahiri and it's not murder. He can certainly declassify his own papers. Some bureaucrat in the CIA does not have powers of classification that are higher than the President's - any power that the bureaucrat has derives from that of the President.

    This doesn't mean that the President is above the law, if the law means something that has been passed by Congress and signed into law. But anything that is in the nature of Executive power, he is the ultimate authority. This is what Nixon meant when he said "When the President does it, it's not a crime." Nixon BTW was, in between being VP and President, a lawyer in NY at the head of his own good sized firm and as smart a lawyer as any, so he wasn't bullshitting when he said this.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Greta Handel, @Jonathan Mason, @Corvinus, @Achmed E. Newman, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @epebble, @Bernard, @Ben tillman

    “It can’t possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.“

    Focus on the bigger picture.

    Agencies are required to review classification determinations upon a request for such a review that specifically identifies the materials so that the agency can locate them, unless the materials identified are part of an operational file exempt under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)53 or are the subject of pending litigation. This requirement does not apply to information that has undergone declassification review in the previous two years; information that is exempted from review under the National Security Act; or information classified by the incumbent President and staff, the Vice President and staff (in the performance of executive duties), commissions appointed by the President, or other entities within the executive office of the President that advise the President. Each agency that has classified information is required to establish a system for periodic declassification reviews. The National Archivist is required to establish a similar systemic review of classified information that has been transferred to the National Archives.

    Access to classified information is generally limited to those who demonstrate their eligibility to the relevant agency head, sign a nondisclosure agreement, and have a need to know the information. The need-to-know requirement can be waived, however, for former Presidents and Vice Presidents, historical researchers, and former policy-making officials who were appointed by the President or Vice President.

    **The information being accessed may not be removed from the controlling agency’s premises without permission. Each agency is required to establish systems for controlling the distribution of classified information.**

    The Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO)—an office within the National Archives—is charged with overseeing compliance with the classification standards and promulgating directives to that end. ISOO is headed by a Director, who is appointed by the Archivist of the United States, and who has the authority to order declassification of information that, in the Director’s view, is classified in violation of the aforementioned classification standards. In addition, there is an Interagency Security Classifications Appeals Panel (ISCAP), headed by the ISOO Director and made up of representatives of the heads of various agencies, including the Departments of Defense, Justice, and State, as well as the Central Intelligence Agency, and the National Archives. ISCAP is empowered to decide appeals of classifications challenges and to review automatic and mandatory declassifications. If the ISOO Director finds a violation of E.O. 13526 or its implementing directives, then the Director must notify the appropriate classifying agency so that corrective steps can be taken.

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Corvinus


    Focus on the bigger picture.
     
    Focus on the door. Don't let it hit you on the way out.

    You ninny.
    , @MEH 0910
    @Corvinus

    Corvinus, your reply is copied and pasted from another source without attribution. How very...Tiny Duck-like.

    https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information
    https://itlaw.fandom.com/wiki/Executive_Order_13526
    https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/RS21900.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13526

    Replies: @Corvinus, @res

    , @Jack D
    @Corvinus

    This bureaucratic gobbledygook just proves my point. Yes, if you are a file clerk in the State Dept. then you must file Form 345-123A IN TRIPLICATE or else you are in big trouble. But none of this applies to the POTUS.

    To the extent that Congress has passed laws that try to regulate what goes on inside the Executive branch, they are probably unconstitutional just as the President has no authority to micro-manage the inner workings of Congress or the Supreme Court.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Ben tillman

  45. @Jack D
    @Jack D

    PS, the reason they want it this way is because the Left controls the unelected Permanent Government. The nation may be, even after all the Democrat dice loading, divided 50/50 and control of the White House and Congress shifts back and forth between R and D, but they are the permanent heads of the Permanent Government.

    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 - Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him. The Dem candidate, even losers like Mondale and Kerry, consistently gets 85-95% of the DC vote.

    The White House is not located in neutral territory but in an enemy capital. Capitals should be central to a country - when DC was selected it was central to the young country. When the US became a continental nation, the capital should have been moved to Kansas where it would have been more reflective of the country as a whole and not just one region.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Prester John, @Giant Duck, @Hypnotoad666

    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 – Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him.

    FYI the residents of Washington DC do not get to vote for President and Washington DC appoints no scholars to the electoral college.

    • Troll: ScarletNumber
    • Replies: @SFG
    @Jonathan Mason

    I always filed that under ‘crap the left is right about’, they are US citizens after all. Maybe split off NYC into a separate state so you have two new GOP senators from upstate.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster

    , @Mr. Anon
    @Jonathan Mason


    FYI the residents of Washington DC do not get to vote for President and Washington DC appoints no scholars to the electoral college.
     
    And.............yet again, you are wrong:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_voting_rights#:~:text=The%20Twenty%2Dthird%20Amendment%2C%20adopted,issue%20since%20the%20capital's%20founding.

    "The Twenty-third Amendment, adopted in 1961, entitles the District to the same number of electoral votes as that of the least populous state in the election of the president and vice president."

    https://www.270towin.com/states/District_of_Columbia
     

    , @aNewBanner
    @Jonathan Mason

    The DC area sprawls into the surrounding counties on both sides of the Potomac. Most bureaucrats live in Virginia, Maryland, or surrounding states. It’s not unheard of for someone to commute from Pennsylvania. Very few bureaucrats are impacted by unique requirements of DC.

    , @Giant Duck
    @Jonathan Mason

    Actually:


    The Twenty-third Amendment (Amendment XXIII) to the United States Constitution extends the right to participate in presidential elections to the District of Columbia. The amendment grants the district electors in the Electoral College as though it were a state, though the district can never have more electors than the least-populous state. The manner in which the electors are appointed is to be determined by Congress. The Twenty-third Amendment was proposed by the 86th Congress on June 16, 1960; it was ratified by the requisite number of states on March 29, 1961.
     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-third_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
    , @Spud Boy
    @Jonathan Mason

    I think you are missing the point.

    Many bureaucrats don't live in DC proper, so the voting part is irrelevant. And it's not about how they vote, it's about how they go about their jobs. Government workers will always be majority Democratic party because that's the party most committed to growing government.

    , @res
    @Jonathan Mason

    Is no one going to challenge this typical Jonathan Mason misinformation?!

    Mason, look up the 23rd amendment.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-third_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_elections_in_the_District_of_Columbia

    P.S. It is a good thing Mason only posts about stuff here which "is something I know about, or something I am interested in." Can you imagine what his comments would be like without that proviso?! /sarc

    See PS of this comment for the relevant quote.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/open-thread-this-weeks-various-trials-of-the-century/#comment-5049809

    Replies: @Jack D, @Giant Duck, @TWS, @Intelligent Dasein, @Veteran Aryan

    , @Hibernian
    @Jonathan Mason

    What score did you get on your citizenship exam?

  46. Trump used Jedi mind tricks to make Garland sign the warrant.

    At the opportune time the security camera footage will be leaked entered into the public consciousness as evidence, following prior examples like the Ukrainian call transcript.

    Upshot, expect nothing to support the warrant that wasn’t planted, also likely on camera.

  47. What Did Trump REALLY Have Stashed at Mar-Lago?

    It hardly matters. Whatever it is, the old Prima Donna will twist the matter around to make it all about himself. He’s probably already fund-raising off of it, and the upswing in support for him may well convince him to run again.

    The man’s narcissism is boundless, and he will be the ruin of any cause he touches.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
    @Mr. Anon

    Yes, Trump's an old Prima Donna, and yes his narcissism is boundless.

    But has he ruined every cause he's touched?

    No. The whole Trump phenomenon has awakened pretty much everybody capable of being awakened to what's really going on here.

    Charisma is crucially important. And Trump has it.

    I mean, what are the alternatives?

    , @Etruscan Film Star
    @Mr. Anon


    The man’s narcissism is boundless, and he will be the ruin of any cause he touches.
     
    Yes, in Trump's mind the galaxy revolves around him. But given the Deep State's obsession, its determination to bring him down by any means necessary, he can almost be forgiven for thinking so.

    It's not clear that his narcissism casts a curse on any movement he is involved in. He was just as self-centered in the 2016 campaign, and it took him to the Oval Office. He mostly blew the opportunity, I think because he had a businessman's mentality -- if you're the company boss, you can pretty much count on the loyalty of the team members you hire. In politics it's a different story. Anyone elevated to the executive rank is a power center of their own.

    DeSantis would be my choice for the next president, not because he is a flawless diamond but because he has been seasoned in the hard school of politics (and seems to have learned its lessons well). But if Trump is chosen to make another run, we'll have to cross our fingers and hope his four years in office and four years in the wilderness have encouraged him to register facts outside his ego.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

  48. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 – Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him.
     
    FYI the residents of Washington DC do not get to vote for President and Washington DC appoints no scholars to the electoral college.

    Replies: @SFG, @Mr. Anon, @aNewBanner, @Giant Duck, @Spud Boy, @res, @Hibernian

    I always filed that under ‘crap the left is right about’, they are US citizens after all. Maybe split off NYC into a separate state so you have two new GOP senators from upstate.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    @SFG

    Nobody has to live in D.C. It's a tiny geographical area. If voting means so much to you, Maryland and Virginia are right there. It's supposed to be politically neutral federal territory for a reason.

  49. @Buzz Mohawk
    It doesn't matter what he putatively had "stashed." To ask the question is to fall for the deceit. There is no excuse for the raid. One doesn't even have to like the former president to understand this.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Peter Akuleyev, @Corvinus, @American Citizen, @Chrisnonymous

    Occam’s Razor says that Trump was hiding boxes of mixed classified/unclassified documents at his home after pretending to have turned everything over—and was keeping them in a place only half a dozen people knew about—because there is incriminating evidence of past crimes.

    • LOL: Dnought
    • Replies: @Spud Boy
    @Corvinus

    "...because there is incriminating evidence of past crimes."

    Does anyone believe Trump possessed documents for which there wasn't another copy somewhere else in the government?

    And who uses paper documents anyway? I stopped using paper 10 years ago.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    , @Alden
    @Corvinus

    United States Civil Code Title 22 and Title 18 disagree with you evil ugly black crow 🦅🦅

  50. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 – Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him.
     
    FYI the residents of Washington DC do not get to vote for President and Washington DC appoints no scholars to the electoral college.

    Replies: @SFG, @Mr. Anon, @aNewBanner, @Giant Duck, @Spud Boy, @res, @Hibernian

    FYI the residents of Washington DC do not get to vote for President and Washington DC appoints no scholars to the electoral college.

    And………….yet again, you are wrong:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_voting_rights#:~:text=The%20Twenty%2Dthird%20Amendment%2C%20adopted,issue%20since%20the%20capital’s%20founding.

    “The Twenty-third Amendment, adopted in 1961, entitles the District to the same number of electoral votes as that of the least populous state in the election of the president and vice president.”

    https://www.270towin.com/states/District_of_Columbia

    • Thanks: ScarletNumber
  51. @Corvinus
    @Jack D

    “It can’t possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.“

    Focus on the bigger picture.

    Agencies are required to review classification determinations upon a request for such a review that specifically identifies the materials so that the agency can locate them, unless the materials identified are part of an operational file exempt under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)53 or are the subject of pending litigation. This requirement does not apply to information that has undergone declassification review in the previous two years; information that is exempted from review under the National Security Act; or information classified by the incumbent President and staff, the Vice President and staff (in the performance of executive duties), commissions appointed by the President, or other entities within the executive office of the President that advise the President. Each agency that has classified information is required to establish a system for periodic declassification reviews. The National Archivist is required to establish a similar systemic review of classified information that has been transferred to the National Archives.

    Access to classified information is generally limited to those who demonstrate their eligibility to the relevant agency head, sign a nondisclosure agreement, and have a need to know the information. The need-to-know requirement can be waived, however, for former Presidents and Vice Presidents, historical researchers, and former policy-making officials who were appointed by the President or Vice President.

    **The information being accessed may not be removed from the controlling agency's premises without permission. Each agency is required to establish systems for controlling the distribution of classified information.**

    The Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO)—an office within the National Archives—is charged with overseeing compliance with the classification standards and promulgating directives to that end. ISOO is headed by a Director, who is appointed by the Archivist of the United States, and who has the authority to order declassification of information that, in the Director's view, is classified in violation of the aforementioned classification standards. In addition, there is an Interagency Security Classifications Appeals Panel (ISCAP), headed by the ISOO Director and made up of representatives of the heads of various agencies, including the Departments of Defense, Justice, and State, as well as the Central Intelligence Agency, and the National Archives. ISCAP is empowered to decide appeals of classifications challenges and to review automatic and mandatory declassifications. If the ISOO Director finds a violation of E.O. 13526 or its implementing directives, then the Director must notify the appropriate classifying agency so that corrective steps can be taken.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @MEH 0910, @Jack D

    Focus on the bigger picture.

    Focus on the door. Don’t let it hit you on the way out.

    You ninny.

  52. It’s obvious.

    • LOL: Not Raul
    • Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Cloudbuster

    https://dazedimg-dazedgroup.netdna-ssl.com/900/azure/dazed-prod/1070/3/1073640.jpg

    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Cloudbuster

    Where are the Mar-a-Lago documents now?
    Will we ever see them?
    Who did Garland assign to the case? Top men. TOP... MEN...

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FRP0MBNoieY

  53. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I mashed [AGREE] for your basic point that SHOULD be the case based on the US Constitution. A warrant signed by a judge (yeah, they found one who doesn't have the same standards otherwise) must specify a specific reason for the search - looking of this specific evidence of such-and-such a crime, etc.*

    At the level of Trump, the Deep State, Hillary, Hunter Biden, etc, there has been no rule of law for a long time. (I'm sure Trump is the least corrupt, but he is no principled Constitutionalist either.) One side tries to play by the rule-of-law while the ctrl-left doesn't give a damn about it.

    The story Hypnotoad brought up may be true, but even if Donald Trump had damning evidence of FBI corruption, would anything be done about it later, ever? I suppose if Trump wins in '24, he can try, but it won't get far using the rule-of-law. That's pretty much over with at that level.

    Even at the level of the Arbery case, we had prosecution-shopping (i.e. there shouldn't have been even an arrest), there were highly inappropriate sentences handed down**, and now double jeopardy due to the "hate crimes" stupidity that also not many here seem to have a problem with.

    Face it, in a Banana-Republican society, you will be forced to play it their way eventually. And people wonder why there have been all those "right-wing Juntas" in Latin America on a regular basis. Will it go that far here?

    .

    * This is why I hate the TSA while most others here don't seem to care about "muh Constitution". Searches are done without any specific reason. It's a violation of Amendment IV.

    ** I mean the one guy is in jail for a long time for videoing the incident. WTF??

    Replies: @International Jew, @Cloudbuster, @Curle, @Anonymous, @Travis B. Anderson

    * This is why I hate the TSA while most others here don’t seem to care about “muh Constitution”. Searches are done without any specific reason. It’s a violation of Amendment IV.

    I agree with you. “Administrative searches” are a huge blight on our legal system. Terry v. Ohio was a terrible decision.

  54. @SFG
    @Jonathan Mason

    I always filed that under ‘crap the left is right about’, they are US citizens after all. Maybe split off NYC into a separate state so you have two new GOP senators from upstate.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster

    Nobody has to live in D.C. It’s a tiny geographical area. If voting means so much to you, Maryland and Virginia are right there. It’s supposed to be politically neutral federal territory for a reason.

  55. @Hypnotoad666
    I already posted about this. It's the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016. He's got dirt on the Deep State that he kept as leverage. And they want it back. Bad.

    They want to indict him. But he can take them down, too.
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/08/11/part-3-why-did-the-doj-and-fbi-execute-the-raid-on-trump-a-culmination-of-four-years-of-threats-and-betrayals/

    Replies: @michael droy, @JR Ewing, @Ian Smith, @Corvinus, @Harry Baldwin, @Jim Don Bob, @AnotherDad

    “I already posted about this. It’s the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016. He’s got dirt on the Deep State that he kept as leverage. And they want it back. Bad.“

    Lol. First, in order to secure the subpoena, the FBI had to show a judge exactly what they are looking for. The subpoena is going to be unsealed. Trump already said he will not contest it from being revealed. So it’s not that information you claim it to be. Why would the DOJ and Trump’s lawyers BOTH agree to have the subpoena shown to the general public if the information proved Clinton and FBI malfeasance?

    Second, given how Trump operates, had he possessed such information, he would have dumped it all on his social media platform and through his minions. After all, he talked about “draining the swamp”and promised to do it, so what better way after legitimately losing the election than to reveal to his supporters that dirt. Better yet, why not release a statement now that his intention was to show to the entire world this “proof”?

    You really are in over your head here.

    • LOL: Russ
    • Replies: @petit bourgeois
    @Corvinus

    It not a subpoena, it is a search warrant.

    For someone who thinks he is so smart, you really don't know what you are talking about.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus

    First, they can list whatever they want (vaguely and broadly if they choose) on the warrant and then grab what they really came for. They were reportedly occupying the house for 9.5 hours. So it seems like they didn't get what they actually were looking for.

    Second, Trump has an issue of whether it's classified or not. He ordered it de-classified and the Deep State hacks refused to do it. So he has to be careful about how and when it could be disclosed. And whether he can admit to having it.

    The Conservative Treehouse article does a good job of outlining what the documents may include. They claim fairly persuasively that Obama's crew 2012-2016 had opened the NSA database to Perkins Coie to do mass opposition political research through FBI "contractors."

    Taking these docs on the theory that he had declassified them seems like a move Trump would make. Seems more plausible than the alternate "national archive overdue library book" theory.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @SunBakedSuburb

  56. @Jack D
    @Jack D

    PS, the reason they want it this way is because the Left controls the unelected Permanent Government. The nation may be, even after all the Democrat dice loading, divided 50/50 and control of the White House and Congress shifts back and forth between R and D, but they are the permanent heads of the Permanent Government.

    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 - Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him. The Dem candidate, even losers like Mondale and Kerry, consistently gets 85-95% of the DC vote.

    The White House is not located in neutral territory but in an enemy capital. Capitals should be central to a country - when DC was selected it was central to the young country. When the US became a continental nation, the capital should have been moved to Kansas where it would have been more reflective of the country as a whole and not just one region.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Prester John, @Giant Duck, @Hypnotoad666

    Your implied proposal (that the US capital be moved to mid-America) is actually not a bad idea. In point of fact, one of the reasons why the current location was picked was precisely because of its location–which was at that time roughly equidistant between Massachusetts (which included what is now Maine) and Georgia.

    It won’t happen of course but, nevertheless, not a bad idea.

  57. Probably nothing. This raid was merely a psyops to distract public attention for a couple of weeks.
    If I was Trump, I’d have kept whatever sensitive information in several hard-drives stashed anywhere but in Mar A Lago.
    And whatever dirt they might need to take down Trump the NSA and CIA already have it.

  58. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 – Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him.
     
    FYI the residents of Washington DC do not get to vote for President and Washington DC appoints no scholars to the electoral college.

    Replies: @SFG, @Mr. Anon, @aNewBanner, @Giant Duck, @Spud Boy, @res, @Hibernian

    The DC area sprawls into the surrounding counties on both sides of the Potomac. Most bureaucrats live in Virginia, Maryland, or surrounding states. It’s not unheard of for someone to commute from Pennsylvania. Very few bureaucrats are impacted by unique requirements of DC.

  59. As the first thing the FBI will do is scan the contents of the files in all the boxes so they can be electronically desiminated. I hope Trump inserted after every third real document a reproduced photo of Hunter with his crack pipe, of Hunter nude with his hookers, Hunter weighing his crack stash, Hilary shacking her fist in anger, and memes, lots of memes!

  60. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 – Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him.
     
    FYI the residents of Washington DC do not get to vote for President and Washington DC appoints no scholars to the electoral college.

    Replies: @SFG, @Mr. Anon, @aNewBanner, @Giant Duck, @Spud Boy, @res, @Hibernian

    Actually:

    The Twenty-third Amendment (Amendment XXIII) to the United States Constitution extends the right to participate in presidential elections to the District of Columbia. The amendment grants the district electors in the Electoral College as though it were a state, though the district can never have more electors than the least-populous state. The manner in which the electors are appointed is to be determined by Congress. The Twenty-third Amendment was proposed by the 86th Congress on June 16, 1960; it was ratified by the requisite number of states on March 29, 1961.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-third_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

  61. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The raid is obviously justifiable. We don’t worship our leaders in this country. This is not Africa yet, as much as the Trump cultists wish we had a uniformed strong man living in a gold palace.

    Replies: @Anon, @AndrewR, @Stan Adams, @The Anti-Gnostic, @SunBakedSuburb, @GeneralRipper, @PhysicistDave

    We don’t worship our leaders in this country. This is not Africa yet, as much as the Trump cultists wish we had a uniformed strong man living in a gold palace.

  62. @Jack D
    @Jack D

    PS, the reason they want it this way is because the Left controls the unelected Permanent Government. The nation may be, even after all the Democrat dice loading, divided 50/50 and control of the White House and Congress shifts back and forth between R and D, but they are the permanent heads of the Permanent Government.

    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 - Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him. The Dem candidate, even losers like Mondale and Kerry, consistently gets 85-95% of the DC vote.

    The White House is not located in neutral territory but in an enemy capital. Capitals should be central to a country - when DC was selected it was central to the young country. When the US became a continental nation, the capital should have been moved to Kansas where it would have been more reflective of the country as a whole and not just one region.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Prester John, @Giant Duck, @Hypnotoad666

    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 – Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him. The Dem candidate, even losers like Mondale and Kerry, consistently gets 85-95% of the DC vote.

    It is certainly true that most bureaucrats in the DC metro area vote Dem, but these stats are misleadingly slanted simply because it has been a very long time since rank-and-file federal government employees could afford to live in DC itself. They mostly live in VA and MD suburbs, and the younger ones live even further out, in the exurbs, sometimes all the way in West Virginia. Federal government salaries have not kept pace with the cost of housing in the close-in portions of the DC metro area – a run-of-the-mill house in Arlington, VA now costs 8 to 10 times the average federal government salary.

  63. My money is that the subpoena does indicate nuclear arms information like the leaks suggest. It’s about the only reason that I can imagine a judge approving the warrant. Even a corrupt judge being pressured by the Feds needs an extraordinary reason to approve an extraordinary warrant.

    It’s ridiculous though. Trump doesn’t have the technical training to understand what would be critical or what’s public domain about nuclear weapons. He’s a real estate tycoon, not. Nuclear physicist. He could understand high-level summaries of things like weapon capabilities, strike plans, or secret operations. But why take that? How does that help him? And why wait 18 months to collect it?

    Nope, this was a fishing expedition. Maybe they wanted to plant something as well, but the cameras remained on. Next time they will need to black out MAL like they blacked out Manhattan to break into Epstein’s home.

    • Replies: @Gordo
    @aNewBanner

    Funnily enough President Trump’s uncle was a nuclear physicist, but this raid looks very like a third world piece of behaviour to us over here.

  64. @Corvinus
    @Jack D

    “It can’t possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.“

    Focus on the bigger picture.

    Agencies are required to review classification determinations upon a request for such a review that specifically identifies the materials so that the agency can locate them, unless the materials identified are part of an operational file exempt under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)53 or are the subject of pending litigation. This requirement does not apply to information that has undergone declassification review in the previous two years; information that is exempted from review under the National Security Act; or information classified by the incumbent President and staff, the Vice President and staff (in the performance of executive duties), commissions appointed by the President, or other entities within the executive office of the President that advise the President. Each agency that has classified information is required to establish a system for periodic declassification reviews. The National Archivist is required to establish a similar systemic review of classified information that has been transferred to the National Archives.

    Access to classified information is generally limited to those who demonstrate their eligibility to the relevant agency head, sign a nondisclosure agreement, and have a need to know the information. The need-to-know requirement can be waived, however, for former Presidents and Vice Presidents, historical researchers, and former policy-making officials who were appointed by the President or Vice President.

    **The information being accessed may not be removed from the controlling agency's premises without permission. Each agency is required to establish systems for controlling the distribution of classified information.**

    The Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO)—an office within the National Archives—is charged with overseeing compliance with the classification standards and promulgating directives to that end. ISOO is headed by a Director, who is appointed by the Archivist of the United States, and who has the authority to order declassification of information that, in the Director's view, is classified in violation of the aforementioned classification standards. In addition, there is an Interagency Security Classifications Appeals Panel (ISCAP), headed by the ISOO Director and made up of representatives of the heads of various agencies, including the Departments of Defense, Justice, and State, as well as the Central Intelligence Agency, and the National Archives. ISCAP is empowered to decide appeals of classifications challenges and to review automatic and mandatory declassifications. If the ISOO Director finds a violation of E.O. 13526 or its implementing directives, then the Director must notify the appropriate classifying agency so that corrective steps can be taken.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @MEH 0910, @Jack D

    • Thanks: Alden
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @MEH 0910

    Here is the source.

    https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/RS21900.html

    NOTICE you didn’t dispute its contents. That’s a good start on your end.

    , @res
    @MEH 0910

    Please don't insult Tiny Duck by comparing him to Corvinus.

    It is interesting to see which posts Corvinus chooses to comment on. Also good to see that the "Corvinus Seal of Approval" (i.e. a Disagree from him) still works for finding good comments like this one.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/all-male-teams-can-succeed-without-the-teammates-liking-each-other/#comment-5489542

  65. The USA’s last reserves of Cofeve…

  66. Seems like some SIGINT about nuclear weapons. I am guessing that means how we get information about others nuclear weapons programs. i.e., where do adversaries like Russia and China have their nukes, what kind of nukes, their readiness etc. Also, may be how close to finish line are Iran, North Korea, security of Pakistan’s weapons etc., Trump may have thought it is a nice souvenir, but if found by adversaries, it will be a huge loss for NSA, CIA, DOE etc.,

    The more interesting part is these documents were subpoenaed but still not returned. Why didn’t he just make unauthorized (“illegal”) copies and return the originals? My guess is, he wanted to precipitate this to rally republicans around him for 2024. It seems to have worked.

    • Disagree: Gordo
  67. I know it’s hard to remember this, going back to those brave, giddy days, pre-Covid. It was during one of the interminable Adam Schtiff impeachments, late 2019…

    Remember? It looked a lot like Trump’s whole strong arm, blackmail scheme against Ukraine – one of so many things that proved he was Hitler Reborn – was engineered to revive a criminal case against the now-First Son, Hunter Biden. From sketchy transcripts of Trump’s conferences with Ukrainian officials, they seemed to be talking about a wide-ranging payoff/graft scheme that Biden ran for his family.

    If Trump had backing documents for this – the real deal – the First Family might be very interested in retrieving them.

  68. Super secret golf course blueprints. The legendary lost library of Donald Ross.

  69. @Jack D
    He stole Hillary's secret cookie recipe from the White House files.

    It can't possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    The Left would like the President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government. For example, they were upset that Trump just pardoned whoever he wanted to pardon and didn't follow the recommendations of some committee. They were upset that Trump expected the head of the FBI to take orders from him. They would like the President to be defanged like the British Queen where nominally she has vast powers but in reality she just does whatever she is directed to do by the permanent government so that she actually has no power at all and is just a figurehead.

    But that's not how it works under our Constitution. The President is our the head of State, the Executive, the Commander in Chief. This means that he is different than ordinary mortals. He has the power of life and death - he can order hits on Zawahiri and it's not murder. He can certainly declassify his own papers. Some bureaucrat in the CIA does not have powers of classification that are higher than the President's - any power that the bureaucrat has derives from that of the President.

    This doesn't mean that the President is above the law, if the law means something that has been passed by Congress and signed into law. But anything that is in the nature of Executive power, he is the ultimate authority. This is what Nixon meant when he said "When the President does it, it's not a crime." Nixon BTW was, in between being VP and President, a lawyer in NY at the head of his own good sized firm and as smart a lawyer as any, so he wasn't bullshitting when he said this.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Greta Handel, @Jonathan Mason, @Corvinus, @Achmed E. Newman, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @epebble, @Bernard, @Ben tillman

    While I agree with both your good comments here, I will take a chance and argue with a lawyer on one point. (You’re not a Constitutional lawyer, though, and it’s a document meant to be readable by the layman.)

    No, the Constitution does not give the President power to kill people except during wartime – said “wartime” is determined by Congress with a Declaration of War. When was the last one of those?

    i.e., The President is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces during a declared war. The Founders weren’t stupid, you know.

  70. People need the affidavit. The gouvernement is able to have told a judge that Trump had stolen nuclear secrets to sell or traffick them to a foreign entity in order to get a mandate with the right to go fishing all over the place.

    Making such a bold lie won’t get any of the public agent go to jail anymore than the one made about Trump being a Russian asset.

  71. @International Jew
    @Achmed E. Newman


    those “right-wing Juntas” in Latin America on a regular basis. Will it go that far here?
     
    Why not? We already have a left-wing junta after all.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @The Alarmist

    We already have a left-wing junta after all.

    No, no, no, you’re not saying it right, I.J. The ctrl-left doesn’t have Juntas. They have last-minute election re-counts, legislating judges, and occasionally people’s revolutions, when the first 2 things don’t cut it.

    Also, to get your terminology straight, remember, powerful Conservatives live in compounds. Powerful men on the left live in houses, on ranches, and sometimes in ranch houses. There was an exception made for The Kennedies, as some of them must be kept in a real compound for their own safety and the safety of the rest of us.

  72. @Buzz Mohawk
    It doesn't matter what he putatively had "stashed." To ask the question is to fall for the deceit. There is no excuse for the raid. One doesn't even have to like the former president to understand this.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Peter Akuleyev, @Corvinus, @American Citizen, @Chrisnonymous

    Show me the man, and I’ll show you the crime.

    Someone from the Soviet persuasion came up with that one.

  73. He got documents proving Texeira,the Yankee,is Hispanic.

  74. This seems to have followed the typical pattern of the preceding six years of Elmer Fudd hunting the big orange wabbit. It’s a standard plot line of The Apprentice: White House.

    Some peon in Mar-a-Lago has been turned by the feds to feed the feds an allegation. Likely in this case, an allegation that he heard from so and so who heard from so and so who overheard Melania say that the microfiche is hidden in the safe. So they use the dubious allegation to secure a warrant, but of course the purpose is really a “general warrant” to poke around in Mar-a-Lago and look at every scrap of paper in the compound for the Trump Diary entry:

    Dear Diary: Today I decided to foment an insurrection against the United States based upon a legal theory which, despite my lack of legal training, I know to be completely false. It was a great day.

    Of course, true to past form the self-regarded gallant White Knight trots himself in front of cameras to proclaim that “everything we did was on the up and up” but “I can’t comment on an ongoing criminal investigation.” That evening the WaPo publishes a story clearly based upon DOJ leaks which say that the materials are related to nuclear weapons.

  75. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 – Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him.
     
    FYI the residents of Washington DC do not get to vote for President and Washington DC appoints no scholars to the electoral college.

    Replies: @SFG, @Mr. Anon, @aNewBanner, @Giant Duck, @Spud Boy, @res, @Hibernian

    I think you are missing the point.

    Many bureaucrats don’t live in DC proper, so the voting part is irrelevant. And it’s not about how they vote, it’s about how they go about their jobs. Government workers will always be majority Democratic party because that’s the party most committed to growing government.

  76. @Jack D
    He stole Hillary's secret cookie recipe from the White House files.

    It can't possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    The Left would like the President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government. For example, they were upset that Trump just pardoned whoever he wanted to pardon and didn't follow the recommendations of some committee. They were upset that Trump expected the head of the FBI to take orders from him. They would like the President to be defanged like the British Queen where nominally she has vast powers but in reality she just does whatever she is directed to do by the permanent government so that she actually has no power at all and is just a figurehead.

    But that's not how it works under our Constitution. The President is our the head of State, the Executive, the Commander in Chief. This means that he is different than ordinary mortals. He has the power of life and death - he can order hits on Zawahiri and it's not murder. He can certainly declassify his own papers. Some bureaucrat in the CIA does not have powers of classification that are higher than the President's - any power that the bureaucrat has derives from that of the President.

    This doesn't mean that the President is above the law, if the law means something that has been passed by Congress and signed into law. But anything that is in the nature of Executive power, he is the ultimate authority. This is what Nixon meant when he said "When the President does it, it's not a crime." Nixon BTW was, in between being VP and President, a lawyer in NY at the head of his own good sized firm and as smart a lawyer as any, so he wasn't bullshitting when he said this.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Greta Handel, @Jonathan Mason, @Corvinus, @Achmed E. Newman, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @epebble, @Bernard, @Ben tillman

    It can’t possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    I can’t determine legitimacy but I’ve heard that this whole thing is based upon boxes of documents which the Archivist sent to Mar-a-Lago after Biden’s inauguration. That’s how you would lay a trap around the plenary power of the President with regard to records classification – just put a few top secret records in the fifteen boxes, then make a bad faith request that the Trump team engage in a snipe hunt to return the “classified documents.”

  77. @Corvinus
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Occam’s Razor says that Trump was hiding boxes of mixed classified/unclassified documents at his home after pretending to have turned everything over—and was keeping them in a place only half a dozen people knew about—because there is incriminating evidence of past crimes.

    Replies: @Spud Boy, @Alden

    “…because there is incriminating evidence of past crimes.”

    Does anyone believe Trump possessed documents for which there wasn’t another copy somewhere else in the government?

    And who uses paper documents anyway? I stopped using paper 10 years ago.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Spud Boy


    And who uses paper documents anyway? I stopped using paper 10 years ago.
     
    And did you throw away your passport?

    I am sure that some fields of endeavor and business that no longer use paper at all, but in others paper remains.

    For example in the medical business, although there are computerized medical records, paper is still used a lot and is actually easier and quicker, particularly since computerized systems are prone to complete shutdowns. In the medical field faxes are also used a great deal, because they are regarded as much safer from the point of view of confidentiality than emails, for example when sending prescriptions to pharmacies.

    In the legal profession also, it is still preferred to serve actual papers on people, rather than to serve them with emails.

    Evidently in the White House it is still the practice to have memos and briefings on paper. Do Trump and Biden even know how to operate a computer, other than to dictate Tweets?

  78. They are desperate to stop him, because they know he will win again and this time he will take off his gloves and all the secret crimes will launch the criminals in Military Tribunal Execution for treason and espionage snitches…

    So, why raid? To implant the fake evidences and install the hidden devices to spy on him and his wife… etc, etc, etc… This government is not our government but run by the JEWISH MAFIA AND ISRAEL THE TRAITOR BACK STABBERS FAKE ALLY, FAKE FRIEND. WE SUPPORT AND FIGHT FOR THE DEVILS IN HUMAN FORM.

    Who was the General said “we fought the war for the wrong people…?” For over 200 years, the Americans shred their own blood, sacrifice their entire live saving and being slavery to the Jews and Israel. Time to recoup everything that they deceived and stolen from us with triple component compound interest and close down their robbery scheme machines: Federal Reserve, IRS, CIA, FBI, Pentagon, ADL, AIPAC,UN, NATO, IMF, UNICEF… etc, etc, etc,

    • Replies: @Bill
    @Purple

    So, President Jared is going to take it to the Jews?

  79. His entire EC collection?

  80. I think we can rule out a Hillary Clinton blow-up doll. Declassified documents show only one of the limited run of 10,000 of the dolls has been sold to an anonymous buyer. It was delivered to a P.O. Box in NYC, 10003, coincidentally the same zip code as that of the former residence of Huma Abedin and Anthony Wiener.

  81. @MEH 0910
    @Corvinus

    Corvinus, your reply is copied and pasted from another source without attribution. How very...Tiny Duck-like.

    https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information
    https://itlaw.fandom.com/wiki/Executive_Order_13526
    https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/RS21900.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13526

    Replies: @Corvinus, @res

    Here is the source.

    https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/RS21900.html

    NOTICE you didn’t dispute its contents. That’s a good start on your end.

  82. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 – Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him.
     
    FYI the residents of Washington DC do not get to vote for President and Washington DC appoints no scholars to the electoral college.

    Replies: @SFG, @Mr. Anon, @aNewBanner, @Giant Duck, @Spud Boy, @res, @Hibernian

    Is no one going to challenge this typical Jonathan Mason misinformation?!

    Mason, look up the 23rd amendment.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-third_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_elections_in_the_District_of_Columbia

    P.S. It is a good thing Mason only posts about stuff here which “is something I know about, or something I am interested in.” Can you imagine what his comments would be like without that proviso?! /sarc

    See PS of this comment for the relevant quote.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/open-thread-this-weeks-various-trials-of-the-century/#comment-5049809

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @res

    Maybe in Ecuador the last edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica that has reached its shores was the one from 1960.

    But what about Senate seats? Shouldn't DC have 2 Senate seats so that the Dems could have 2 more permanent seats? Doesn't that sound fair to you?

    There is an easy fix for the DC voting problem - it was half fixed a long time ago (1847) when the Virginia section of the District was ceded back to VA. All they need to do is cede the rest of DC back to Maryland and viola, the people of DC are represented in Congress. But that wouldn't suit the Dems at all.

    , @Giant Duck
    @res

    I submitted a similar comment on the 23rd amendment shortly after Mason's post appeared; however, since my comments are typically stuck in mod for anywhere from 6 hours to two days, these kinds of contributions get entirely left out of the debate. Alas.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @MEH 0910

    , @TWS
    @res

    He's like corvie, a reverse barometer. Reliably wrong about everything.

    , @Intelligent Dasein
    @res


    Is no one going to challenge this typical Jonathan Mason misinformation?!
     
    I usually just scroll over posts by Jonathan Mason.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    , @Veteran Aryan
    @res


    Is no one going to challenge this typical Jonathan Mason misinformation?!
     
    Steve reads the New York Times so we don't have to. You, you read Jonathan Mason so we don't have to.
  83. I think the raid was motivated by the desire to prove that Trump had violated the Federal Records Act (or whatever), in order to bar him from running for re-election in 2024.
    It seems clear they weren’t sure whether they’d find any evidence that they could use to that effect, and it appears that they did not. I suspect it was argued that if they did search Mar-a-Lago, and came up empty handed, that this would play right into Trump’s hands. I suspect this point was argued rather strenuously. But in the end, the chance to keep Trump off the ballot was too great a temptation for them, and they unwisely moved ahead with this cockamamie scheme.

    48 hours ago, I was leaning towards DeSantis being the stealth front-runner, but now it’s clearly Trump again, for better or worse.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Servant of Gla'aki

    Latest lie from the FBI is that Trump violated the nuclear weapons section of the espionage act.

  84. @MEH 0910
    @Corvinus

    Corvinus, your reply is copied and pasted from another source without attribution. How very...Tiny Duck-like.

    https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information
    https://itlaw.fandom.com/wiki/Executive_Order_13526
    https://www.everycrsreport.com/reports/RS21900.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13526

    Replies: @Corvinus, @res

    Please don’t insult Tiny Duck by comparing him to Corvinus.

    It is interesting to see which posts Corvinus chooses to comment on. Also good to see that the “Corvinus Seal of Approval” (i.e. a Disagree from him) still works for finding good comments like this one.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/all-male-teams-can-succeed-without-the-teammates-liking-each-other/#comment-5489542

    • Agree: Kylie, TWS
  85. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The raid is obviously justifiable. We don’t worship our leaders in this country. This is not Africa yet, as much as the Trump cultists wish we had a uniformed strong man living in a gold palace.

    Replies: @Anon, @AndrewR, @Stan Adams, @The Anti-Gnostic, @SunBakedSuburb, @GeneralRipper, @PhysicistDave

    It’s common practice to prosecute former Presidents in the USA and other Latin American countries. Trump remains politically popular (though he’s way too old IMO) and a few key States could put him in the White House again. From the perspective of the Permanent State, this cannot be allowed to happen.

    Trump gets the flak because he’s the one over the target. Ron DeSantis will get the same treatment. They’ll call him the “Butcher of Florida,” with COVID corpses piled up along the Florida roadways. Tearful Holocaust survivors on oxygen in biohazard suits will be wheeled out to say Ron DeSantis gave them COVID. Deranged teenaged girls will show their cutting scars and claim it’s because Adolf DeSantis won’t let them say gay. The FBI will investigate the Reedy Creek legislation (Disneygate!). This never ends and the MAL raid is just the latest iteration. If another Republican is ever elected (which I don’t think is going to happen, see below) he should never set foot in D.C.

    Obama/Clinton was supposed to end history and give the bolsheviks their permanent victory. When that didn’t happen it absolutely broke their minds; they will not let it happen again. And with election margins of victory routinely dipping into the margin of error, it never has to.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    Agreed, and this part was downright hilarious, A-G:


    Trump gets the flak because he’s the one over the target. Ron DeSantis will get the same treatment. They’ll call him the “Butcher of Florida,” with COVID corpses piled up along the Florida roadways. Tearful Holocaust survivors on oxygen in biohazard suits will be wheeled out to say Ron DeSantis gave them COVID. Deranged teenaged girls will show their cutting scars and claim it’s because Adolf DeSantis won’t let them say gay.
     
    Haaaha! That outta my system, I would still like to see Gov. DeSantis run for the '24 Pres. election. He is not the bullshitter Trump is, he can think straight and make a strategy rather than spend his time tweeting like a schoolgirl, he has actual principles, including understanding Federalism and, well, what Mr. Anon wrote above about Trump.

    Trump is the rallying point though. That's why they want to get him. Perhaps this can magically work out to be a good thing. What Ron DeSantis needs is a mole at the NSA that can get dirt on anyone that comes up with anything on him. That's the way you'd have to do it - hit them back the same way.

    I wish I had applied for the NSA back in the day. I'd be an Ed Snowden on steroids by now. Ron Unz, don't let them crack open your server. Take the cyanide before giving out the PW. You know I'd do the same for you.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

  86. @Hypnotoad666
    I already posted about this. It's the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016. He's got dirt on the Deep State that he kept as leverage. And they want it back. Bad.

    They want to indict him. But he can take them down, too.
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/08/11/part-3-why-did-the-doj-and-fbi-execute-the-raid-on-trump-a-culmination-of-four-years-of-threats-and-betrayals/

    Replies: @michael droy, @JR Ewing, @Ian Smith, @Corvinus, @Harry Baldwin, @Jim Don Bob, @AnotherDad

    It’s the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016.

    If he has this, I’m sure he has multiple copies stashed in different locations. He wouldn’t keep it in his house.

  87. @Corvinus
    @Jack D

    “It can’t possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.“

    Focus on the bigger picture.

    Agencies are required to review classification determinations upon a request for such a review that specifically identifies the materials so that the agency can locate them, unless the materials identified are part of an operational file exempt under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)53 or are the subject of pending litigation. This requirement does not apply to information that has undergone declassification review in the previous two years; information that is exempted from review under the National Security Act; or information classified by the incumbent President and staff, the Vice President and staff (in the performance of executive duties), commissions appointed by the President, or other entities within the executive office of the President that advise the President. Each agency that has classified information is required to establish a system for periodic declassification reviews. The National Archivist is required to establish a similar systemic review of classified information that has been transferred to the National Archives.

    Access to classified information is generally limited to those who demonstrate their eligibility to the relevant agency head, sign a nondisclosure agreement, and have a need to know the information. The need-to-know requirement can be waived, however, for former Presidents and Vice Presidents, historical researchers, and former policy-making officials who were appointed by the President or Vice President.

    **The information being accessed may not be removed from the controlling agency's premises without permission. Each agency is required to establish systems for controlling the distribution of classified information.**

    The Information Security Oversight Office (ISOO)—an office within the National Archives—is charged with overseeing compliance with the classification standards and promulgating directives to that end. ISOO is headed by a Director, who is appointed by the Archivist of the United States, and who has the authority to order declassification of information that, in the Director's view, is classified in violation of the aforementioned classification standards. In addition, there is an Interagency Security Classifications Appeals Panel (ISCAP), headed by the ISOO Director and made up of representatives of the heads of various agencies, including the Departments of Defense, Justice, and State, as well as the Central Intelligence Agency, and the National Archives. ISCAP is empowered to decide appeals of classifications challenges and to review automatic and mandatory declassifications. If the ISOO Director finds a violation of E.O. 13526 or its implementing directives, then the Director must notify the appropriate classifying agency so that corrective steps can be taken.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @MEH 0910, @Jack D

    This bureaucratic gobbledygook just proves my point. Yes, if you are a file clerk in the State Dept. then you must file Form 345-123A IN TRIPLICATE or else you are in big trouble. But none of this applies to the POTUS.

    To the extent that Congress has passed laws that try to regulate what goes on inside the Executive branch, they are probably unconstitutional just as the President has no authority to micro-manage the inner workings of Congress or the Supreme Court.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Jack D

    “This bureaucratic gobbledygook just proves my point.”

    It assuredly does not. There is a process by which documents are handled and declassified. That’s how it has worked in the past. There hasn’t been an issue of this magnitude before to my knowledge. It appears the Trump team had said they followed the protocols, and it was discovered they lied. That’s what Trump is known for.

    “To the extent that Congress has passed laws that try to regulate what goes on inside the Executive branch, they are probably unconstitutional just as the President has no authority to micro-manage the inner workings of Congress or the Supreme Court.“

    Do you want some Grey Poupon for your red herring?

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Curle

    , @Ben tillman
    @Jack D

    Exactly right.

  88. @Jack D
    He stole Hillary's secret cookie recipe from the White House files.

    It can't possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    The Left would like the President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government. For example, they were upset that Trump just pardoned whoever he wanted to pardon and didn't follow the recommendations of some committee. They were upset that Trump expected the head of the FBI to take orders from him. They would like the President to be defanged like the British Queen where nominally she has vast powers but in reality she just does whatever she is directed to do by the permanent government so that she actually has no power at all and is just a figurehead.

    But that's not how it works under our Constitution. The President is our the head of State, the Executive, the Commander in Chief. This means that he is different than ordinary mortals. He has the power of life and death - he can order hits on Zawahiri and it's not murder. He can certainly declassify his own papers. Some bureaucrat in the CIA does not have powers of classification that are higher than the President's - any power that the bureaucrat has derives from that of the President.

    This doesn't mean that the President is above the law, if the law means something that has been passed by Congress and signed into law. But anything that is in the nature of Executive power, he is the ultimate authority. This is what Nixon meant when he said "When the President does it, it's not a crime." Nixon BTW was, in between being VP and President, a lawyer in NY at the head of his own good sized firm and as smart a lawyer as any, so he wasn't bullshitting when he said this.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Greta Handel, @Jonathan Mason, @Corvinus, @Achmed E. Newman, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @epebble, @Bernard, @Ben tillman

    Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    That can’t be true. Otherwise, a President can never accidentally (or otherwise) mishandle classified information. For example, many an eyebrow was raised when Trump hosted Russian Ambassador and Foreign Minister at the Oval Office for fear that some classified information may be leaked.

    Photos of Trump’s closed-door meeting with Russian officials raise eyebrows
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/photos-trump-russia-sergey-lavrov-sergey-kislyak-oval-office-meeting/

    • Replies: @Alden
    @epebble

    The president of the United States has the power to classify anything and de classify anything. This power begins as soon as he takes the inaugural oath. And doesn’t end till the president dies.

    Replies: @epebble

    , @Alden
    @epebble

    So do the obscenity liberals believe Lavrov asked President Trump a distracting question while Kislyak stuck an invisible thumb drive into the President’s computer?

    That’s how it’s done in movies and spy novels.

    Replies: @epebble

    , @Ben tillman
    @epebble

    Eyebrows were raised because they hated Trump, not because he wasn’t authorized to disclose classified info to anyone at any time.

    , @Curle
    @epebble

    “That can’t be true.”

    That can’t be true isn’t a legal standard.

  89. @res
    @Jonathan Mason

    Is no one going to challenge this typical Jonathan Mason misinformation?!

    Mason, look up the 23rd amendment.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-third_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_elections_in_the_District_of_Columbia

    P.S. It is a good thing Mason only posts about stuff here which "is something I know about, or something I am interested in." Can you imagine what his comments would be like without that proviso?! /sarc

    See PS of this comment for the relevant quote.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/open-thread-this-weeks-various-trials-of-the-century/#comment-5049809

    Replies: @Jack D, @Giant Duck, @TWS, @Intelligent Dasein, @Veteran Aryan

    Maybe in Ecuador the last edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica that has reached its shores was the one from 1960.

    But what about Senate seats? Shouldn’t DC have 2 Senate seats so that the Dems could have 2 more permanent seats? Doesn’t that sound fair to you?

    There is an easy fix for the DC voting problem – it was half fixed a long time ago (1847) when the Virginia section of the District was ceded back to VA. All they need to do is cede the rest of DC back to Maryland and viola, the people of DC are represented in Congress. But that wouldn’t suit the Dems at all.

  90. @res
    @Jonathan Mason

    Is no one going to challenge this typical Jonathan Mason misinformation?!

    Mason, look up the 23rd amendment.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-third_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_elections_in_the_District_of_Columbia

    P.S. It is a good thing Mason only posts about stuff here which "is something I know about, or something I am interested in." Can you imagine what his comments would be like without that proviso?! /sarc

    See PS of this comment for the relevant quote.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/open-thread-this-weeks-various-trials-of-the-century/#comment-5049809

    Replies: @Jack D, @Giant Duck, @TWS, @Intelligent Dasein, @Veteran Aryan

    I submitted a similar comment on the 23rd amendment shortly after Mason’s post appeared; however, since my comments are typically stuck in mod for anywhere from 6 hours to two days, these kinds of contributions get entirely left out of the debate. Alas.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Giant Duck

    I hope that changes. Perhaps iSteve has you confused with another commenting duck.

    , @MEH 0910
    @Giant Duck


    however, since my comments are typically stuck in mod for anywhere from 6 hours to two days, these kinds of contributions get entirely left out of the debate. Alas.
     
    You're the commenter who got their start by giving Steve the April Reign/April Sands scoop. Your comments deserve better than to be stuck in moderation.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/is-celebrated-inventor-of-oscarssowhite-april-reign-also-april-sands-of-an-obama-administration-scandal/


    iSteve commenter Giant Duck has pointed out that April Reign’s @ReignOfApril twitter account was formerly in use by Federal Election Commission official April Sands in an Obama Administration scandal linked to Sands’ ex-boss Lois Lerner.
     

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  91. @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    “I already posted about this. It’s the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016. He’s got dirt on the Deep State that he kept as leverage. And they want it back. Bad.“

    Lol. First, in order to secure the subpoena, the FBI had to show a judge exactly what they are looking for. The subpoena is going to be unsealed. Trump already said he will not contest it from being revealed. So it’s not that information you claim it to be. Why would the DOJ and Trump’s lawyers BOTH agree to have the subpoena shown to the general public if the information proved Clinton and FBI malfeasance?

    Second, given how Trump operates, had he possessed such information, he would have dumped it all on his social media platform and through his minions. After all, he talked about “draining the swamp”and promised to do it, so what better way after legitimately losing the election than to reveal to his supporters that dirt. Better yet, why not release a statement now that his intention was to show to the entire world this “proof”?

    You really are in over your head here.

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @Hypnotoad666

    It not a subpoena, it is a search warrant.

    For someone who thinks he is so smart, you really don’t know what you are talking about.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @petit bourgeois

    Yes, a search warrant. But my point, regardless of the wrong term I used, still stands.

    Replies: @Boomthorkell

  92. • Replies: @Prester John
    @Bill Jones

    Read Kunstler's piece. Verrry interesting! Not surprisingly, Madame Hillary is in the thick of things--as she has been since she slithered up to The Beltway from Arkansas with the husband-of-record in 1992.

  93. US nuclear intelligence on Iran Trump was leaking to Israel via one or more of the numerous Israeli Likud agents the media euphemistically calls “Trumpworld.”

    https://bannedhipster.home.blog/2022/08/11/trump-was-leaking-us-nuclear-intel-to-israel/

    • Agree: bombthe3gorgesdam
  94. @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    “I already posted about this. It’s the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016. He’s got dirt on the Deep State that he kept as leverage. And they want it back. Bad.“

    Lol. First, in order to secure the subpoena, the FBI had to show a judge exactly what they are looking for. The subpoena is going to be unsealed. Trump already said he will not contest it from being revealed. So it’s not that information you claim it to be. Why would the DOJ and Trump’s lawyers BOTH agree to have the subpoena shown to the general public if the information proved Clinton and FBI malfeasance?

    Second, given how Trump operates, had he possessed such information, he would have dumped it all on his social media platform and through his minions. After all, he talked about “draining the swamp”and promised to do it, so what better way after legitimately losing the election than to reveal to his supporters that dirt. Better yet, why not release a statement now that his intention was to show to the entire world this “proof”?

    You really are in over your head here.

    Replies: @petit bourgeois, @Hypnotoad666

    First, they can list whatever they want (vaguely and broadly if they choose) on the warrant and then grab what they really came for. They were reportedly occupying the house for 9.5 hours. So it seems like they didn’t get what they actually were looking for.

    Second, Trump has an issue of whether it’s classified or not. He ordered it de-classified and the Deep State hacks refused to do it. So he has to be careful about how and when it could be disclosed. And whether he can admit to having it.

    The Conservative Treehouse article does a good job of outlining what the documents may include. They claim fairly persuasively that Obama’s crew 2012-2016 had opened the NSA database to Perkins Coie to do mass opposition political research through FBI “contractors.”

    Taking these docs on the theory that he had declassified them seems like a move Trump would make. Seems more plausible than the alternate “national archive overdue library book” theory.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    “First, they can list whatever they want (vaguely and broadly if they choose) on the warrant and then grab what they really came for.”

    That is not how a requesting for and executing a search warrant works, especially in this case with so much scrutiny. Specific items must be listed, with legal reasons as to why.

    “They were reportedly occupying the house for 9.5 hours. So it seems like they didn’t get what they actually were looking for.”

    More likely is that they spent considerable time to meticulously comb through the area and obtain the relevant materials per the warrant. Why did he have those documents in the first place when his legal team had stated they complied with past presidential procedures?

    Why doesn’t he simply dump all the dirt YOU claim he has on the Deep State and finish it once and for all?

    “Second, Trump has an issue of whether it’s classified or not. He ordered it de-classified and the Deep State hacks refused to do it.”

    More likely they followed past precedent and Trump’s request was denied That is why there are layers of protection. Again, if Trump has the goods, why not open up the floodgates? Besides, what specific evidence do you have that what Trump has in his possession, or wanted, IS indeed “dirt” on Shitlery and the FBI?

    “So he has to be careful about how and when it could be disclosed. And whether he can admit to having it.”

    Lol, no, he really doesn’t. He promised to drain the swamp beyond any means necessary. Here is his opportunity. Since when he is cautious?

    The Conservative Treehouse article does a good job of outlining what the documents may include.

    “They claim fairly persuasively that Obama’s crew 2012-2016 had opened the NSA database to Perkins Coie to do mass opposition political research through FBI “contractors.””

    Claim, yes. With speculation dressed up as evidence.

    “Taking these docs on the theory that he had declassified them seems like a move Trump would make.”

    Great! Why doesn’t Trump release them? Doesn’t he want to take out the Deep State?

    “Seems more plausible than the alternate “national archive overdue library book” theory.”

    Less plausible.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Hypnotoad666, @PhysicistDave, @Alden, @Peter D. Bredon

    , @SunBakedSuburb
    @Hypnotoad666

    "The Conservative Treehouse article ..."

    Sundance published a post yesterday outlining the star chamber created by Eric Holder whilst he was AG: the DOJ National Security Division which targets the political enemies of the Obama Clique that manages the federal system for globohomo. Merrick Garland has always been a totalitarian leftist, but it's Lisa Monaco running the show at DOJ for the OC.

  95. @Jack D
    @Jack D

    PS, the reason they want it this way is because the Left controls the unelected Permanent Government. The nation may be, even after all the Democrat dice loading, divided 50/50 and control of the White House and Congress shifts back and forth between R and D, but they are the permanent heads of the Permanent Government.

    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 - Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him. The Dem candidate, even losers like Mondale and Kerry, consistently gets 85-95% of the DC vote.

    The White House is not located in neutral territory but in an enemy capital. Capitals should be central to a country - when DC was selected it was central to the young country. When the US became a continental nation, the capital should have been moved to Kansas where it would have been more reflective of the country as a whole and not just one region.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason, @Prester John, @Giant Duck, @Hypnotoad666

    When the US became a continental nation, the capital should have been moved to Kansas where it would have been more reflective of the country as a whole and not just one region.

    Unfortunately DC creates its own region, wherever you locate it. The permanent bureaucrats and the camp-following lawyers, lobbyists, and consultants create their own left-wing grifter community.

    They really do need to get rid of DC as it’s own judicial district, though. As any political case is now tried before a biased jury of authoritarian left-wing Democrats.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Hypnotoad666



    When the US became a continental nation, the capital should have been moved to Kansas where it would have been more reflective of the country as a whole and not just one region.
     
    Unfortunately DC creates its own region, wherever you locate it. The permanent bureaucrats and the camp-following lawyers, lobbyists, and consultants create their own left-wing grifter community.
     
    The problem isn't the location, but the size. A tumor is a tumor.
  96. @petit bourgeois
    @Corvinus

    It not a subpoena, it is a search warrant.

    For someone who thinks he is so smart, you really don't know what you are talking about.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    Yes, a search warrant. But my point, regardless of the wrong term I used, still stands.

    • Replies: @Boomthorkell
    @Corvinus

    I suppose part of the issue here is you pride yourself on meticulousness as the basis for your arguments and your critiques of other people's arguments. You present your very being as "being against spirit, but dealing with facts."

    So, let's say your point doesn't stand.

  97. After the raids on Paul Manafort, Trump’s lawyer Cohen, Trump Tower, Roger Stone, Alex Jones’ home, Hope Hicks’ home ((?) etc.. Trump was stupid if he kept anything of political value at MAR-A-LAGO. But even if there was nothing there, as Trump said, the BIDEN GANG are not above planting something to incriminate TRUMP.

  98. TRUMP is exactly right to plead the 5th. One can not have a reasonable give and take conversation with stark raving PSCHOPATHIC MANIACS. Especially not when those PSCHOPATHS control all the public narrative.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @Prester John
    @opsimathian

    Jonathan Turley indicated that Trump was probably right to plead the 5th in light of all the pending additional litigation. Makes sense.

  99. @Jack D
    @Corvinus

    This bureaucratic gobbledygook just proves my point. Yes, if you are a file clerk in the State Dept. then you must file Form 345-123A IN TRIPLICATE or else you are in big trouble. But none of this applies to the POTUS.

    To the extent that Congress has passed laws that try to regulate what goes on inside the Executive branch, they are probably unconstitutional just as the President has no authority to micro-manage the inner workings of Congress or the Supreme Court.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Ben tillman

    “This bureaucratic gobbledygook just proves my point.”

    It assuredly does not. There is a process by which documents are handled and declassified. That’s how it has worked in the past. There hasn’t been an issue of this magnitude before to my knowledge. It appears the Trump team had said they followed the protocols, and it was discovered they lied. That’s what Trump is known for.

    “To the extent that Congress has passed laws that try to regulate what goes on inside the Executive branch, they are probably unconstitutional just as the President has no authority to micro-manage the inner workings of Congress or the Supreme Court.“

    Do you want some Grey Poupon for your red herring?

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @Corvinus

    Corvinus wrote to Jack D:


    [Jack] “This bureaucratic gobbledygook just proves my point.”

    [Corvy] It assuredly does not. There is a process by which documents are handled and declassified.
     
    As usual, Corvy, you are utterly ignorant of what you are talking about.

    I did technical work for the US Intelligence Community back in the '80s and '90s.

    Unlike you, I actually know quite a lot about the classification system.

    For example, the really hot material, the kind of stuff that would allow enemies to kill or work-around our weapons systems, is "Sensitive Compartmented Information" and is restricted to highly secure environments -- so-called "SCIFs," colloquially known as "tanks."

    Such data was not just lying around the Oval Office waiting for someone to pack it up or dispose of it.

    Again, I know a great deal about this personally from my own professional experience.

    You don't.

    Also, Presidents have the final, unilateral say on classification matters: they do not have to go through what you call "a process by which documents are... declassified."

    Investigative journalist John Solomon has a detailed report just up on his Just the News site detailing all this.

    Read it, Corvy, you might educate yourself. (On second thought: don't bother -- you're ineducable.)

    And CBSNews' Intel expert Catherine Herridge just came out with a report that hints that the Mar-a-Lago raid may have been an attempt by DoJ to regain control of the documents that Trump declassified on the "Crossfire Hurricane" attempted coup against his Presidency.

    Her key summary:

    Then President #Trump issued this memorandum 1/19/2021 on declassification FBI Crossfire Hurricane records. Circulated to AG, DNI, CIA. May now be relevant once full holdings from Monday search at Mar-a-Largo catalogued.
     
    This is gonna be a lot bigger than Watergate or, to go back in history, the Dreyfus Affair.

    Hopefully, it will result in finally carrying out JFK's desire to smash the Deep State into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds.

    Again, Corvy, I have a great deal of professional knowledge from having worked for a number of years for the US Intelligence Community. You don't.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Curle
    @Corvinus

    PhysistDave is correct. Try and consult an lawyer before you express strong opinions about legal matters.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  100. @Purple
    They are desperate to stop him, because they know he will win again and this time he will take off his gloves and all the secret crimes will launch the criminals in Military Tribunal Execution for treason and espionage snitches...

    So, why raid? To implant the fake evidences and install the hidden devices to spy on him and his wife... etc, etc, etc... This government is not our government but run by the JEWISH MAFIA AND ISRAEL THE TRAITOR BACK STABBERS FAKE ALLY, FAKE FRIEND. WE SUPPORT AND FIGHT FOR THE DEVILS IN HUMAN FORM.

    Who was the General said "we fought the war for the wrong people...?" For over 200 years, the Americans shred their own blood, sacrifice their entire live saving and being slavery to the Jews and Israel. Time to recoup everything that they deceived and stolen from us with triple component compound interest and close down their robbery scheme machines: Federal Reserve, IRS, CIA, FBI, Pentagon, ADL, AIPAC,UN, NATO, IMF, UNICEF... etc, etc, etc,

    Replies: @Bill

    So, President Jared is going to take it to the Jews?

  101. @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus

    First, they can list whatever they want (vaguely and broadly if they choose) on the warrant and then grab what they really came for. They were reportedly occupying the house for 9.5 hours. So it seems like they didn't get what they actually were looking for.

    Second, Trump has an issue of whether it's classified or not. He ordered it de-classified and the Deep State hacks refused to do it. So he has to be careful about how and when it could be disclosed. And whether he can admit to having it.

    The Conservative Treehouse article does a good job of outlining what the documents may include. They claim fairly persuasively that Obama's crew 2012-2016 had opened the NSA database to Perkins Coie to do mass opposition political research through FBI "contractors."

    Taking these docs on the theory that he had declassified them seems like a move Trump would make. Seems more plausible than the alternate "national archive overdue library book" theory.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @SunBakedSuburb

    “First, they can list whatever they want (vaguely and broadly if they choose) on the warrant and then grab what they really came for.”

    That is not how a requesting for and executing a search warrant works, especially in this case with so much scrutiny. Specific items must be listed, with legal reasons as to why.

    “They were reportedly occupying the house for 9.5 hours. So it seems like they didn’t get what they actually were looking for.”

    More likely is that they spent considerable time to meticulously comb through the area and obtain the relevant materials per the warrant. Why did he have those documents in the first place when his legal team had stated they complied with past presidential procedures?

    Why doesn’t he simply dump all the dirt YOU claim he has on the Deep State and finish it once and for all?

    “Second, Trump has an issue of whether it’s classified or not. He ordered it de-classified and the Deep State hacks refused to do it.”

    More likely they followed past precedent and Trump’s request was denied That is why there are layers of protection. Again, if Trump has the goods, why not open up the floodgates? Besides, what specific evidence do you have that what Trump has in his possession, or wanted, IS indeed “dirt” on Shitlery and the FBI?

    “So he has to be careful about how and when it could be disclosed. And whether he can admit to having it.”

    Lol, no, he really doesn’t. He promised to drain the swamp beyond any means necessary. Here is his opportunity. Since when he is cautious?

    The Conservative Treehouse article does a good job of outlining what the documents may include.

    “They claim fairly persuasively that Obama’s crew 2012-2016 had opened the NSA database to Perkins Coie to do mass opposition political research through FBI “contractors.””

    Claim, yes. With speculation dressed up as evidence.

    “Taking these docs on the theory that he had declassified them seems like a move Trump would make.”

    Great! Why doesn’t Trump release them? Doesn’t he want to take out the Deep State?

    “Seems more plausible than the alternate “national archive overdue library book” theory.”

    Less plausible.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus

    None of us obviously knows exactly what the FBI is after, or why. So just make up whatever presumptions you want and keep believing them. But TDS has obviously impaired your ability to put two and two together.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus


    “First, they can list whatever they want (vaguely and broadly if they choose) on the warrant and then grab what they really came for.”
     

    That is not how a requesting for and executing a search warrant works, especially in this case with so much scrutiny. Specific items must be listed, with legal reasons as to why.
     
    Actual Warrant Request: "c. Any government and/or Presidential records created between January 20, 2017 and January 20, 2021;"
    , @PhysicistDave
    @Corvinus

    Corvinus wrote:


    That is not how a requesting for and executing a search warrant works, especially in this case with so much scrutiny. Specific items must be listed, with legal reasons as to why.
     
    Read the warrant, Corvy. It cover everything from the Trump Presidency:

    ATTACHMENT B
    Property to be seized
    ...
    c. Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January
    20, 2017, and January 20, 2021
     
    Yes, such a warrant is indeed illegal:

    Amendment IV

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
     
    And judges are required to squelch a warrant like that.

    But often they just don't.

    If this were ever to go to trial, Trump's lawyers could probably get all the evidence that was seized squelched.

    But it won't go to trial: that is not really the point of the raid.

    It's just Gestapo tactics to frighten the populace.

    My step-mom worked for a judge in Jefferson Country, Missouri some years ago. The judge just pre-signed a bunch of search warrant forms and had my step-mom give them to the cops when they wanted a warrant and the judge happened not be around.

    As illegal as all Hell?

    Yep, but it happened.

    And, yes, I know, both the judge and my step-mom could have been sent to jail. At the very least, all of the evidence gathered with those warrants was inadmissible.

    If the defendants had known...

    A lot of judges are crooks, Corvy.

    The world does not work the way you think it does.

    Replies: @Prester John

    , @Alden
    @Corvinus

    The search warrant specified any and all documents acquired between January 20 2017 and January 20 2020.

    That is extremely broad.

    , @Peter D. Bredon
    @Corvinus

    Grow up. You need to stop believing that "good government" civics class bullshit.

  102. What Did Trump REALLY Have Stashed at Mar-Lago?

    I say:

    Trump had a SSLBMAWTBW on standby at Mar-a-Lago.

    Submarine Sandwich Launched Ballistic Missile Armed With Taco Bowl Warhead.

    The Trump SSLBMAWTBW is the best…better than all the rest…simply the best.

    The Submarine Sandwich is Italian with the best cheese and the best olive oil and the best pepperoni and salami and capicola.

  103. @Hypnotoad666
    I already posted about this. It's the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016. He's got dirt on the Deep State that he kept as leverage. And they want it back. Bad.

    They want to indict him. But he can take them down, too.
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/08/11/part-3-why-did-the-doj-and-fbi-execute-the-raid-on-trump-a-culmination-of-four-years-of-threats-and-betrayals/

    Replies: @michael droy, @JR Ewing, @Ian Smith, @Corvinus, @Harry Baldwin, @Jim Don Bob, @AnotherDad

    I already posted about this. It’s the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years …

    Nope. The president is the ultimate declassification authority. He could have declassified these documents, and anything else, anytime he was the president.

    • Agree: Alden
    • Replies: @vinteuil
    @Jim Don Bob


    The president is the ultimate declassification authority. He could have declassified these documents, and anything else, anytime he was the president.
     
    Obviously, you didn't bother to follow the link.

    The president can request/suggest declassification. But there's a fairly lengthy process that has to be gone through - all of it controlled by Trump's enemies.
    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Jim Don Bob


    Nope. The president is the ultimate declassification authority. He could have declassified these documents, and anything else, anytime he was the president.
     
    That is disputed by the Deep State. That's the crux of the problem. They claim Trump can only request to initiate the declassification process, which they ultimately control.

    Below the more tag, I've pasted a very long excerpt from one part of the CH article by "Sundance," in case anyone wants to understand the nature of the classification dispute. https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/08/11/part-3-why-did-the-doj-and-fbi-execute-the-raid-on-trump-a-culmination-of-four-years-of-threats-and-betrayals/





    The core issue within the debate surrounded two contradictory reference points: (1) President Trump has ultimate declassification authority. Yes; however, in this example President Trump is also the target of the investigation; so, (2) declassification could be viewed by elements within the investigation as ‘obstruction’. Both of these points were true.

    Also true was the reality that both laws and politics were in play.

    In November 2018 President Trump gave an interview where he discussed the situation as it was visible to him. Democrats and republican opposition, writ large, were working earnestly to remove him from office.

    Here’s a link to the General Principles of declassification [SEE HERE] Yes, the President can declassify anything; however, there is a process that must be followed. Executive order 13526 [Citation Here]

    Following that declassification process the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, then Dan Coats, and the FBI Director, Christopher Wray, and the Attorney General, in this example Rod Rosenstein, needed to “sign-off” on the declassification.

    The process reasoning is simple in the ordinary (non-corrupt) flow of events. The intelligence agencies might need to protect part of the information, such as “sources or methods” of intelligence contained within the classified material.

    Under ordinary declassification procedures the President would likely not want to compromise the ‘sources’ and ‘methods’ and would defer to the intelligence experts.

    President Trump is aware of material that he can use to defend himself from the ongoing ‘impeachment’ plans of Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. However, President Trump is also seemingly aware of the issues within the process to gain access to the material and actually use it. This is where the concentric circle of lawyers around the Office of The Presidency come into play.

    We have the constitution, we have laws, and we have politics.

    Moving forward there are three background threads that are critical to understanding how this process has unfolded so far:

    The Declassification Conundrum.
    Understanding the Ramifications of President Trump as a target.
    Understanding how intelligence is compartmented.
    All three of these issues come into play.

    Unfortunately, if you have not already invested the time in those three aspects it is easy, very easy, to get lost.

    Because none of the legal linguistics took into account the reality of the actual process for declassifying information, many people were stuck thinking President Trump held sole authority to classify and declassify intelligence without understanding the process.

    Declassification of intelligence is a process, and each person -within the executive branch- inside the process must agree to the process. Making the process even more riddled with issues is the reality that President Trump was the target in a counterintelligence investigation. President Trump was being investigated by Mueller to see if he is under the direct or indirect influence of a foreign power. [In this example, Russia]

    The Mueller probe is an originating counterintelligence investigation that ‘can find’ espionage (see Russian indictments) as well as violations of law (Papadopoulos, Manafort, Flynn). It is critical to remember, the originating probe is not a criminal probe; but Mueller and Weissmann can charge criminality if the investigators encounter interference of their counterintelligence probe; these are the process crimes (perjury, obstruction, lying to congress); or if the probe uncovers direct criminal activity (tax evasion, money laundering, FARA violations etc.).

    Yes, technically President Trump can declassify anything. However, it is also true that technically POTUS doesn’t actually declassify anything. The Office of the President asks for a document to enter into a declassification review process.

    Officials within that process (ODNI, DoD, DoS, FBI, DOJ-NSD, CIA, NSA, etc), based on their unique relationship to the interests within the document(s), can approve or refuse to sign-off based on their specific intelligence interests. This is where compartmented intelligence comes into play.

    Any officer who refuses the request for declassification must justify to the intelligence hub; the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI, Dan Coats). The executive branch intelligence official tells the ODNI (Dan Coats) why they, their unique interests, cannot approve of the declassification request.

    DNI Dan Coats then informs POTUS why the document is not cleared for declassification.

    If he disagrees with the decision of the intelligence official, POTUS then would have to fire, replace and hope the next person in the chain-of-command would sign-off. Given the nuance in the example of President Trump declassifying information that would show he was targeted, and considering the President is under a counterintelligence cloud it was unlikely any officer would break ranks.

    President Trump would have to fire people, and keep firing people, until he gets to a person, inside that specific agency, who would comply.

    Now stop and be reasonable.

    Think about the general political ramifications to that decision. And then think about the ramifications against the reality that President Trump is a target, under the cloud of a counterintelligence probe.

    President Trump asks DNI Dan Coats (intelligence hub) to coordinate the declassification of [fill_in_blank]. If he agrees, in November of 2018 Dan Coats then asks all of the compartmented principles with interest in that specific document. That likely includes the DOJ (after the midterm it’s Matt Whitaker), FBI (Chris Wray), and likely DoS (Mike Pompeo – because of the State Dept aspect to Chris Steele). Also, possibly the NSA and/or Cyber Command.

    If FBI Director Christopher Wray refuses to declassify the document(s) because it is part of the current Mueller counterintelligence probe, of which Trump was a target, then President Trump would have to fire Chris Wray; and, while awaiting a replacement (Senate confirmation seriously doubtful), the request then falls on FBI Deputy Director David Bowdich. [Who would also likely refuse]

    As this hypothetical declassification example is unfolding you can imagine the political damage being carried out. In addition, there’s the looming impeachment process waiting to start. Hopefully, you can see how President Trump could easily be accused of interference or obstruction of justice. So, he had to wait for Mueller to finish.

    Here comes the second betrayal and threat.

    Mueller completed his investigation in April of 2019.

    Within a few weeks, May 2019, the newly appointed and confirmed Attorney General Bill Barr tells President Trump to remove himself from the declassification issue and give him the authority to declassify and release documents because Barr has an investigator (John Durham) to look into the corrupt activity behind the Trump-Russia collusion hoax.

    Ten days before he made the request, Bill Barr had enlisted John Durham to look into all of the issues surrounding the targeting of President Trump and the Clinton campaign involvement in the creation of the Trump-Russia collusion story.

    At the time most people thought what Barr was doing was a good thing. As a result, President Trump agrees to support Bill Barr and on May 23, 2019, delegates the declassification and release to the Attorney General.

    The President is trusting his cabinet officer, the highest law enforcement officer in the country, to do the right thing and expose the wrongdoing he has been the subject of for the past two years.

    It was an easy sell, because the purpose of declassification was ultimately to facilitate a DOJ review of how the intelligence apparatus was used in the 2016 election.

    However, because the DOJ review encompassed intelligence systems (DOJ, FBI, NSA) potentially weaponized in 2016 for political purposes and intents, a strange dynamic existed.

    President Trump carries: (a) declassification authority; but also: (b) an inherent conflict.

    In the DOJ endeavor using John Durham, candidate Trump would have been the target of corrupt agency activity; and therefore, Trump would be considered the target/victim if weaponization were affirmed by evidence collected by Durham.

    To avoid the conflict President Trump designated the U.S. Attorney General as arbiter and decision-maker for the purposes of declassifying evidence within the investigation:

    …”The Attorney General has also been delegated full and complete authority to declassify information pertaining to this investigation, in accordance with the long-established standards for handling classified information.”

    Additionally, AG Bill Barr did not need to assemble the intelligence product for approval by the executive (Trump). Instead, the office of the president is granting the AG full unilateral decision-making as to each product being considered for declassification.

    At the time we noted, this was a huge amount of trust from the President to the Attorney General, and a big responsibility for William Barr:

    [Sec 2] …”With respect to any matter classified under Executive Order 13526 of December 29, 2009 (Classified National Security Information), the Attorney General may, by applying the standard set forth in either section 3.1(a) or section 3.1(d) of Executive Order 13526, declassify, downgrade, or direct the declassification or downgrading of information or intelligence that relates to the Attorney General’s review referred to in section 1 of this memorandum.”

    The position-designate slightly works around custom insofar as the intelligence hub, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (Dan Coats), is given conference – but the decision-making was designated to the Attorney General (Bill Barr).

    Essentially the DNI will be following the instructions of the AG for this Memorandum. This is slightly unusual; but given the purpose, necessary and expected.

    Following protocol, the 2019 Memorandum was specific to the agencies carrying the documentation to be reviewed by the Attorney General: The Secretary of State (Pompeo); the Secretary of Treasury (Mnuchin); the Secretary of Defense (Shanahan); the Secretary of Energy (Perry); the Secretary of Homeland Security (McAleenan); the Director of National Intelligence (Coats); the Director of the CIA (Haspel), and the Attorney General himself (Barr).

    Within the memorandum President Trump did not allow AG Bill Barr to delegate authority. However, all agencies were required to respond to Barr’s authority.

    The purpose of the Declassification Directive, as it was sold to President Trump, also appeared to permit the DOJ Inspector General to include classified material in the body of the (early 2019) pending report on FISA abuse; this memorandum was granting AG Bill Barr the autonomy to make that decision and declassify that content.

    While the purpose of the authority was to empower AG Bill Barr to collect, process and declassify intelligence product that was part of the DOJ investigative review, President Trump did not preclude the public release of intelligence information in advance of the 2019 IG report on FISA abuse.

    Much of the intelligence information may be collected external to the IG review parameters (FISA process) and may be released independently as part of stand-alone declassification that pertains to weaponized DOJ, FBI and CIA political activity. Ultimately the decision to release, and the timing therein, was then in the hands of U.S. Attorney General William Barr.

    On May 23, 2019, with the Mueller investigation in the rear-view President Trump tweeted:





    Unfortunately, as time continued throughout 2019, Attorney General Bill Barr took no action that would declassify any material of interest to the targeting of President Trump.



    AG Bill Barr used the “ongoing criminal investigation,” led by the man he appointed, John Durham, as a justification for non-release of documents.

    Frustration continues to mount as impeachment efforts against President Trump and the painful reality of the Bill Barr motive starts to settle in.

    Bill Barr replaced the obstruction and interference threat carried by Mueller special counsel, with the obstruction and interference threat carried by the Durham special counsel. The ‘ongoing investigation‘ narrative created both swords of Damocles. One created by Rosenstein/Mueller the other created by Barr/Durham.

    Then Bill Barr did something even worse. He made sure Donald Trump could never remove it. . . .

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/08/11/part-3-why-did-the-doj-and-fbi-execute-the-raid-on-trump-a-culmination-of-four-years-of-threats-and-betrayals/
  104. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I mashed [AGREE] for your basic point that SHOULD be the case based on the US Constitution. A warrant signed by a judge (yeah, they found one who doesn't have the same standards otherwise) must specify a specific reason for the search - looking of this specific evidence of such-and-such a crime, etc.*

    At the level of Trump, the Deep State, Hillary, Hunter Biden, etc, there has been no rule of law for a long time. (I'm sure Trump is the least corrupt, but he is no principled Constitutionalist either.) One side tries to play by the rule-of-law while the ctrl-left doesn't give a damn about it.

    The story Hypnotoad brought up may be true, but even if Donald Trump had damning evidence of FBI corruption, would anything be done about it later, ever? I suppose if Trump wins in '24, he can try, but it won't get far using the rule-of-law. That's pretty much over with at that level.

    Even at the level of the Arbery case, we had prosecution-shopping (i.e. there shouldn't have been even an arrest), there were highly inappropriate sentences handed down**, and now double jeopardy due to the "hate crimes" stupidity that also not many here seem to have a problem with.

    Face it, in a Banana-Republican society, you will be forced to play it their way eventually. And people wonder why there have been all those "right-wing Juntas" in Latin America on a regular basis. Will it go that far here?

    .

    * This is why I hate the TSA while most others here don't seem to care about "muh Constitution". Searches are done without any specific reason. It's a violation of Amendment IV.

    ** I mean the one guy is in jail for a long time for videoing the incident. WTF??

    Replies: @International Jew, @Cloudbuster, @Curle, @Anonymous, @Travis B. Anderson

    “but he is no principled Constitutionalist”

    If he were an principled constitutionalist he’d be President of an state. We’ve had no principled constitutionalists since 1865, just people trying to read the remaining scraps of the original document.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  105. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The raid is obviously justifiable. We don’t worship our leaders in this country. This is not Africa yet, as much as the Trump cultists wish we had a uniformed strong man living in a gold palace.

    Replies: @Anon, @AndrewR, @Stan Adams, @The Anti-Gnostic, @SunBakedSuburb, @GeneralRipper, @PhysicistDave

    “strong man”

    The right side of the binary wants a strong man who has a hotline to Jesus. The left, in denial of their own religiosity yet mocking those who believe in a celestial king, want an all knowing, all seeing bureaucracy managed by layers of committees. Both streams have totalitarian elements. Life would be much better if more folks followed the path of Deism, like me and Thomas Jefferson — two smart guys who prefer robes over pants.

  106. @Anon
    If an aerospace worker took home a classified document and refused to return it, he would be severely punished. If that is what Trump did, he deserved the raid. Rules are rules.

    Replies: @Alden, @Gordo, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Anonymous

    Before commenting on the documents Trump took with him when he left the White House; I suggest you read United States Civil Code Title 22 and Title 18.

    Hint the president of the United States is not an ordinary government worker.

    Obama took 33 million confidential secret and top secret documents with him. Every president since Washington took documents when leaving the White House

    • Replies: @Supply and Demand
    @Alden

    Obama was good, and Trump is bad. That's the difference. If you need that explained to you -- re-evaluate your sick and twisted morals.

    , @Ron Mexico
    @Alden

    Which docs did WH Harrison, Taylor, et al take with them?

    Replies: @Alden

  107. Some guy on the internet named Michael Knowles suggests Trump had the philosopher’s stone at Mar-a-Lago.

    Van Morrison sings Philosopher’s Stone:

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    @Charles Pewitt

    One of Morrison's best, of which there are many.

  108. @Corvinus
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Occam’s Razor says that Trump was hiding boxes of mixed classified/unclassified documents at his home after pretending to have turned everything over—and was keeping them in a place only half a dozen people knew about—because there is incriminating evidence of past crimes.

    Replies: @Spud Boy, @Alden

    United States Civil Code Title 22 and Title 18 disagree with you evil ugly black crow 🦅🦅

    • LOL: PhysicistDave
  109. If I was a betting man I’d go with past history and say nothing, or next to. The Dem playbook runs like this. Make, or insinuate an allegation and enlist friendlies from within the government to take action against Trump. After said action is complete, fall behind the “no comment on ongoing matters” stance, while leaking salacious details that wind up to be false. Eventually what they can prove is little to nothing, but the damage is done.

  110. @Bill Jones
    Kunstler has a good theory.

    https://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/gestapo-the-steal/

    Replies: @Prester John

    Read Kunstler’s piece. Verrry interesting! Not surprisingly, Madame Hillary is in the thick of things–as she has been since she slithered up to The Beltway from Arkansas with the husband-of-record in 1992.

  111. @Technite78
    This is all theater... it is the MSM and the Democrats (with their entrenched bureaucracy), controlling the news cycle and trying to avert a defeat in the mid-terms that would have them losing the House and the Senate.

    They don't want Trump in jail; they just use him to enrage and rally their troops, for fundraising and votes.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t get this one, Technite. All these moves rally patriotic Americans (or MAGA types, not always overlapping) more than they do the left, IMO.

    Now if they want to distract us from other things, high inflation, asinine foreign policy, etc., I could believe that.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The Obama Clique wants to stir up the MAGA crowd to further the white supremacist narrative. Which is a ridiculous narrative.

    Replies: @Curle

    , @Technite78
    @Achmed E. Newman

    It's hard to say who will benefit in the long run from the continued harassment of Trump; but they can't help themselves... it just feels right to them. They underestimated the danger of over-promoting him in 2016; they could just as easily underestimate the danger of over-prosecuting him. They may even think that they can further splinter the Republican Party this way.

    And yes, it is definitely a way to distract from how badly they have been governing.

  112. @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus

    First, they can list whatever they want (vaguely and broadly if they choose) on the warrant and then grab what they really came for. They were reportedly occupying the house for 9.5 hours. So it seems like they didn't get what they actually were looking for.

    Second, Trump has an issue of whether it's classified or not. He ordered it de-classified and the Deep State hacks refused to do it. So he has to be careful about how and when it could be disclosed. And whether he can admit to having it.

    The Conservative Treehouse article does a good job of outlining what the documents may include. They claim fairly persuasively that Obama's crew 2012-2016 had opened the NSA database to Perkins Coie to do mass opposition political research through FBI "contractors."

    Taking these docs on the theory that he had declassified them seems like a move Trump would make. Seems more plausible than the alternate "national archive overdue library book" theory.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @SunBakedSuburb

    “The Conservative Treehouse article …”

    Sundance published a post yesterday outlining the star chamber created by Eric Holder whilst he was AG: the DOJ National Security Division which targets the political enemies of the Obama Clique that manages the federal system for globohomo. Merrick Garland has always been a totalitarian leftist, but it’s Lisa Monaco running the show at DOJ for the OC.

  113. @Jack D
    He stole Hillary's secret cookie recipe from the White House files.

    It can't possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    The Left would like the President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government. For example, they were upset that Trump just pardoned whoever he wanted to pardon and didn't follow the recommendations of some committee. They were upset that Trump expected the head of the FBI to take orders from him. They would like the President to be defanged like the British Queen where nominally she has vast powers but in reality she just does whatever she is directed to do by the permanent government so that she actually has no power at all and is just a figurehead.

    But that's not how it works under our Constitution. The President is our the head of State, the Executive, the Commander in Chief. This means that he is different than ordinary mortals. He has the power of life and death - he can order hits on Zawahiri and it's not murder. He can certainly declassify his own papers. Some bureaucrat in the CIA does not have powers of classification that are higher than the President's - any power that the bureaucrat has derives from that of the President.

    This doesn't mean that the President is above the law, if the law means something that has been passed by Congress and signed into law. But anything that is in the nature of Executive power, he is the ultimate authority. This is what Nixon meant when he said "When the President does it, it's not a crime." Nixon BTW was, in between being VP and President, a lawyer in NY at the head of his own good sized firm and as smart a lawyer as any, so he wasn't bullshitting when he said this.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Greta Handel, @Jonathan Mason, @Corvinus, @Achmed E. Newman, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @epebble, @Bernard, @Ben tillman

    The Left would like the President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government

    One important correction; The Left would like any Republican President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government

  114. @epebble
    @Jack D

    Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    That can't be true. Otherwise, a President can never accidentally (or otherwise) mishandle classified information. For example, many an eyebrow was raised when Trump hosted Russian Ambassador and Foreign Minister at the Oval Office for fear that some classified information may be leaked.

    Photos of Trump's closed-door meeting with Russian officials raise eyebrows
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/photos-trump-russia-sergey-lavrov-sergey-kislyak-oval-office-meeting/

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden, @Ben tillman, @Curle

    The president of the United States has the power to classify anything and de classify anything. This power begins as soon as he takes the inaugural oath. And doesn’t end till the president dies.

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Alden

    Then there is no case. he just utters the magic phrase "Everything in Mar-A-Lago is declassified". And the case dies instantly.

    Replies: @Alden, @Not Raul

  115. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Technite78

    I don't get this one, Technite. All these moves rally patriotic Americans (or MAGA types, not always overlapping) more than they do the left, IMO.

    Now if they want to distract us from other things, high inflation, asinine foreign policy, etc., I could believe that.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @Technite78

    The Obama Clique wants to stir up the MAGA crowd to further the white supremacist narrative. Which is a ridiculous narrative.

    • Replies: @Curle
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Want to share what it is? This supremacist narrative?

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

  116. @Cloudbuster
    It's obvious.

    http://i0.wp.com/www.cactushugs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/indiana-jones-ark-of-the-covenant.jpg

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Chrisnonymous

  117. @Anon
    If an aerospace worker took home a classified document and refused to return it, he would be severely punished. If that is what Trump did, he deserved the raid. Rules are rules.

    Replies: @Alden, @Gordo, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Anonymous

    If an aerospace worker took home a classified document and refused to return it, he would be severely punished. If that is what Trump did, he deserved the raid. Rules are rules.

    Oh no they aren’t!

  118. @aNewBanner
    My money is that the subpoena does indicate nuclear arms information like the leaks suggest. It’s about the only reason that I can imagine a judge approving the warrant. Even a corrupt judge being pressured by the Feds needs an extraordinary reason to approve an extraordinary warrant.

    It’s ridiculous though. Trump doesn’t have the technical training to understand what would be critical or what’s public domain about nuclear weapons. He’s a real estate tycoon, not. Nuclear physicist. He could understand high-level summaries of things like weapon capabilities, strike plans, or secret operations. But why take that? How does that help him? And why wait 18 months to collect it?

    Nope, this was a fishing expedition. Maybe they wanted to plant something as well, but the cameras remained on. Next time they will need to black out MAL like they blacked out Manhattan to break into Epstein’s home.

    Replies: @Gordo

    Funnily enough President Trump’s uncle was a nuclear physicist, but this raid looks very like a third world piece of behaviour to us over here.

  119. @The Anti-Gnostic
    @Peter Akuleyev

    It's common practice to prosecute former Presidents in the USA and other Latin American countries. Trump remains politically popular (though he's way too old IMO) and a few key States could put him in the White House again. From the perspective of the Permanent State, this cannot be allowed to happen.

    Trump gets the flak because he's the one over the target. Ron DeSantis will get the same treatment. They'll call him the "Butcher of Florida," with COVID corpses piled up along the Florida roadways. Tearful Holocaust survivors on oxygen in biohazard suits will be wheeled out to say Ron DeSantis gave them COVID. Deranged teenaged girls will show their cutting scars and claim it's because Adolf DeSantis won't let them say gay. The FBI will investigate the Reedy Creek legislation (Disneygate!). This never ends and the MAL raid is just the latest iteration. If another Republican is ever elected (which I don't think is going to happen, see below) he should never set foot in D.C.

    Obama/Clinton was supposed to end history and give the bolsheviks their permanent victory. When that didn't happen it absolutely broke their minds; they will not let it happen again. And with election margins of victory routinely dipping into the margin of error, it never has to.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Agreed, and this part was downright hilarious, A-G:

    Trump gets the flak because he’s the one over the target. Ron DeSantis will get the same treatment. They’ll call him the “Butcher of Florida,” with COVID corpses piled up along the Florida roadways. Tearful Holocaust survivors on oxygen in biohazard suits will be wheeled out to say Ron DeSantis gave them COVID. Deranged teenaged girls will show their cutting scars and claim it’s because Adolf DeSantis won’t let them say gay.

    Haaaha! That outta my system, I would still like to see Gov. DeSantis run for the ’24 Pres. election. He is not the bullshitter Trump is, he can think straight and make a strategy rather than spend his time tweeting like a schoolgirl, he has actual principles, including understanding Federalism and, well, what Mr. Anon wrote above about Trump.

    Trump is the rallying point though. That’s why they want to get him. Perhaps this can magically work out to be a good thing. What Ron DeSantis needs is a mole at the NSA that can get dirt on anyone that comes up with anything on him. That’s the way you’d have to do it – hit them back the same way.

    I wish I had applied for the NSA back in the day. I’d be an Ed Snowden on steroids by now. Ron Unz, don’t let them crack open your server. Take the cyanide before giving out the PW. You know I’d do the same for you.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Ron Unz, don’t let them crack open your server. Take the cyanide before giving out the PW. You know I’d do the same for you.
     
    This is more serious than you think.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  120. @Giant Duck
    @res

    I submitted a similar comment on the 23rd amendment shortly after Mason's post appeared; however, since my comments are typically stuck in mod for anywhere from 6 hours to two days, these kinds of contributions get entirely left out of the debate. Alas.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @MEH 0910

    I hope that changes. Perhaps iSteve has you confused with another commenting duck.

    • LOL: Giant Duck
  121. Donald Trump, Bad Orange Man and Master Spy.

    FBI ‘recovered ELEVEN sets of classified documents from Mar-a-Lago’ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11106833/FBI-recovered-ELEVEN-sets-classified-documents-Mar-Lago.html?ito=native_share_article-top

  122. @Giant Duck
    @res

    I submitted a similar comment on the 23rd amendment shortly after Mason's post appeared; however, since my comments are typically stuck in mod for anywhere from 6 hours to two days, these kinds of contributions get entirely left out of the debate. Alas.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @MEH 0910

    however, since my comments are typically stuck in mod for anywhere from 6 hours to two days, these kinds of contributions get entirely left out of the debate. Alas.

    You’re the commenter who got their start by giving Steve the April Reign/April Sands scoop. Your comments deserve better than to be stuck in moderation.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/is-celebrated-inventor-of-oscarssowhite-april-reign-also-april-sands-of-an-obama-administration-scandal/

    iSteve commenter Giant Duck has pointed out that April Reign’s @ReignOfApril twitter account was formerly in use by Federal Election Commission official April Sands in an Obama Administration scandal linked to Sands’ ex-boss Lois Lerner.

    • Agree: Giant Duck
    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    https://twitter.com/realDailyWire/status/1557413106799628289
    https://www.dailywire.com/news/judge-who-signed-off-on-fbi-raid-was-far-more-sympathetic-when-democrat-irs-officials-30000-emails-disappeared


    The Florida judge who reportedly signed off on the warrant permitting the FBI to raid the home of former President Trump — where they allegedly looked for classified documents — was far more sympathetic back in the day when tens of thousands of emails of Democrat Lois Lerner, then head of a division of the IRS and harsh critic of conservatives, disappeared.
     
    https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/1557116112898342918

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  123. It was a dark and stormy night, and Trump got ransacked and raided by a mug goon named Merrick Garland from the Chicago Organized Crime Syndicate. Merrick Garland is known to have close association and affiliation with the Biden Organized Crime Syndicate and the Democrat Party Organized Crime Syndicate.

    It is well known that Barack Obama is in extreme coordination and affiliation with the Chicago Organized Crime Syndicate and various other associations with other elements of Financialization, Globalization and Mass Immigration.

    I repeat my call to arrest, convict and imprison Merrick Garland, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris and Alejandro Mayorkas for the crime of aiding and abetting the illegal alien invasion of the United Sates of America.

    Biden, Harris, Garland and Mayorkas must all be immediately arrested for aiding and abetting illegal alien invaders and for illegally giving the illegal alien invaders safe harbor.

    Biden and Harris and Garland and Mayorkas must be arrested and when they are convicted they must be sentenced to lengthy prison sentences and then after their prison terms are served, they must have their citizenship revoked and they must be legally and forcibly deported to walled and fenced concentration compounds in a hot and fetid part of sub-Saharan Africa.

  124. @Mr. Anon

    What Did Trump REALLY Have Stashed at Mar-Lago?
     
    It hardly matters. Whatever it is, the old Prima Donna will twist the matter around to make it all about himself. He's probably already fund-raising off of it, and the upswing in support for him may well convince him to run again.

    The man's narcissism is boundless, and he will be the ruin of any cause he touches.

    Replies: @vinteuil, @Etruscan Film Star

    Yes, Trump’s an old Prima Donna, and yes his narcissism is boundless.

    But has he ruined every cause he’s touched?

    No. The whole Trump phenomenon has awakened pretty much everybody capable of being awakened to what’s really going on here.

    Charisma is crucially important. And Trump has it.

    I mean, what are the alternatives?

  125. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Technite78

    I don't get this one, Technite. All these moves rally patriotic Americans (or MAGA types, not always overlapping) more than they do the left, IMO.

    Now if they want to distract us from other things, high inflation, asinine foreign policy, etc., I could believe that.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @Technite78

    It’s hard to say who will benefit in the long run from the continued harassment of Trump; but they can’t help themselves… it just feels right to them. They underestimated the danger of over-promoting him in 2016; they could just as easily underestimate the danger of over-prosecuting him. They may even think that they can further splinter the Republican Party this way.

    And yes, it is definitely a way to distract from how badly they have been governing.

  126. @Anon
    If an aerospace worker took home a classified document and refused to return it, he would be severely punished. If that is what Trump did, he deserved the raid. Rules are rules.

    Replies: @Alden, @Gordo, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Anonymous

    Just like rules are for Hillary and her unauthorized laptop bullshit?

  127. @Anon
    If an aerospace worker took home a classified document and refused to return it, he would be severely punished. If that is what Trump did, he deserved the raid. Rules are rules.

    Replies: @Alden, @Gordo, @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Anonymous

    I would agree with you if Hillary Clinton had been punished for her security violations. She wasn’t, so neither should Trump.

  128. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The raid is obviously justifiable. We don’t worship our leaders in this country. This is not Africa yet, as much as the Trump cultists wish we had a uniformed strong man living in a gold palace.

    Replies: @Anon, @AndrewR, @Stan Adams, @The Anti-Gnostic, @SunBakedSuburb, @GeneralRipper, @PhysicistDave

    You’re not even close to being “an American”, douchebag.

    It’s not “your country”, so do everyone a favor and STFU.

  129. Caught him red-handed – with an advance bootleg of the new Arch Enemy album

  130. @International Jew
    @Achmed E. Newman


    those “right-wing Juntas” in Latin America on a regular basis. Will it go that far here?
     
    Why not? We already have a left-wing junta after all.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @The Alarmist

    Why not? We already have a left-wing junta after all.

    Well, they’re more like a Soviet Politburo Gerontocracy.

    BTW, now that the Capitol is ringed with fortifications, it would not be incorrect to call it The Kremlin on the Potomac.

  131. @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    “First, they can list whatever they want (vaguely and broadly if they choose) on the warrant and then grab what they really came for.”

    That is not how a requesting for and executing a search warrant works, especially in this case with so much scrutiny. Specific items must be listed, with legal reasons as to why.

    “They were reportedly occupying the house for 9.5 hours. So it seems like they didn’t get what they actually were looking for.”

    More likely is that they spent considerable time to meticulously comb through the area and obtain the relevant materials per the warrant. Why did he have those documents in the first place when his legal team had stated they complied with past presidential procedures?

    Why doesn’t he simply dump all the dirt YOU claim he has on the Deep State and finish it once and for all?

    “Second, Trump has an issue of whether it’s classified or not. He ordered it de-classified and the Deep State hacks refused to do it.”

    More likely they followed past precedent and Trump’s request was denied That is why there are layers of protection. Again, if Trump has the goods, why not open up the floodgates? Besides, what specific evidence do you have that what Trump has in his possession, or wanted, IS indeed “dirt” on Shitlery and the FBI?

    “So he has to be careful about how and when it could be disclosed. And whether he can admit to having it.”

    Lol, no, he really doesn’t. He promised to drain the swamp beyond any means necessary. Here is his opportunity. Since when he is cautious?

    The Conservative Treehouse article does a good job of outlining what the documents may include.

    “They claim fairly persuasively that Obama’s crew 2012-2016 had opened the NSA database to Perkins Coie to do mass opposition political research through FBI “contractors.””

    Claim, yes. With speculation dressed up as evidence.

    “Taking these docs on the theory that he had declassified them seems like a move Trump would make.”

    Great! Why doesn’t Trump release them? Doesn’t he want to take out the Deep State?

    “Seems more plausible than the alternate “national archive overdue library book” theory.”

    Less plausible.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Hypnotoad666, @PhysicistDave, @Alden, @Peter D. Bredon

    None of us obviously knows exactly what the FBI is after, or why. So just make up whatever presumptions you want and keep believing them. But TDS has obviously impaired your ability to put two and two together.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    "None of us obviously knows exactly what the FBI is after, or why."

    Of course we know. Trump was storing documents at his residence. One of his own lawyers had indicated that all relevant materials were returned. Why would Trump still be in possession of those papers? Why does he still need them?

    Replies: @epebble, @Hypnotoad666

  132. @SunBakedSuburb
    @Achmed E. Newman

    The Obama Clique wants to stir up the MAGA crowd to further the white supremacist narrative. Which is a ridiculous narrative.

    Replies: @Curle

    Want to share what it is? This supremacist narrative?

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Curle

    That which is conjured by the domestic security services.

  133. @JR Ewing
    @Hypnotoad666

    I’ve never understood a sitting member of congress, or in this case an ex-president, or even a sitting president, hiding behind, “This stuff is so terrible. I wish I could tell you but it’s classified.” It’s such a terrible cynical bullshit excuse. Rand Paul does it all the time, Trump does it too.

    If it’s that bad and needs to come out, then let it out. The current president can unclassify anything he wants and can pardon you on the spot and if he doesn’t and the deep state apparatus come after you anyway despite public opinion, then that “rule of law” doesn’t need to be protected in the first place.

    Either you are an overseer or not. Either the government is ultimately accountable to the people ot it’s not. Transparency is required in a republican government. If “the people” really are in charge, then you can’t keep secrets from them and hide behind statutes whenever it’s convenient.

    So if Trump does have this smoking gun document, then he needs to release it and quit “negotiating”. If he’s really an iconoclast, he needs to start acting like one.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    So if Trump does have this smoking gun document, then he needs to release it and quit “negotiating”. If he’s really an iconoclast, he needs to start acting like one.

    I don’t know why people are having trouble grasping this: The Deep State will put Trump in Guantanamo Bay for releasing classified information. Everyone thinks they know that “the President can declassify anything.” But the Deep State begs to differ. They claim each of the heads of the three-letter agencies have to sign off. They also claim (have claimed) that Trump releasing documents while he’s under investigation (which he always is) is “obstruction of justice.”

    How’d you like to stake your life on whether a corrupt Democrat Judge in DC will agree with your legal position. Can you even imagine what it’s like having the entire Regime and the Deep State dedicating all its resources to putting you in prison.

    • Replies: @JR Ewing
    @Hypnotoad666

    I’m not having trouble grasping it.

    What I’m having trouble grasping - or, rather, what I’m having trouble accepting - is that so many Americans are satisfied being fat and happy and don’t give two shits about being ruled by tyrants so long as they can get their Papa John’s pizza and watch television and let the “rich” people pay the taxes.

    I know that they will throw Trump into Gitmo in a heartbeat. What I wish is that the rest of America wouldn’t let it happen.

    Tree of liberty, Blood of tyrants yadda yadda.

  134. J. Edgar Hoover had personal files filled with information that he could use for blackmail.

    Trump probably does the same thing.

    Supposedly, some of Trump’s files pertain to surveillance of French government officials. That might be used to blackmail those officials, or blackmail intelligence officials who want the extent of that surveillance to remain hidden from France.

    Trump could also have files related to Iran’s nuclear program, and intelligence sources related to monitoring that program.

    He might also have files that pertain to Hunter Biden, Ukraine, or both.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @Not Raul

    Update from Poso — take it with a grain of salt

    https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1558289449104146432?s=20&t=ezLnejdz2wiiP1eSJI9wIA

    , @Emil Nikola Richard
    @Not Raul

    Roy Cohn was buddies with young Trump and in Hoover's league as blackmail operations master.

  135. @Jim Don Bob
    @Hypnotoad666


    I already posted about this. It’s the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years ...
     
    Nope. The president is the ultimate declassification authority. He could have declassified these documents, and anything else, anytime he was the president.

    Replies: @vinteuil, @Hypnotoad666

    The president is the ultimate declassification authority. He could have declassified these documents, and anything else, anytime he was the president.

    Obviously, you didn’t bother to follow the link.

    The president can request/suggest declassification. But there’s a fairly lengthy process that has to be gone through – all of it controlled by Trump’s enemies.

  136. @Jim Don Bob
    @Hypnotoad666


    I already posted about this. It’s the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years ...
     
    Nope. The president is the ultimate declassification authority. He could have declassified these documents, and anything else, anytime he was the president.

    Replies: @vinteuil, @Hypnotoad666

    Nope. The president is the ultimate declassification authority. He could have declassified these documents, and anything else, anytime he was the president.

    That is disputed by the Deep State. That’s the crux of the problem. They claim Trump can only request to initiate the declassification process, which they ultimately control.

    Below the more tag, I’ve pasted a very long excerpt from one part of the CH article by “Sundance,” in case anyone wants to understand the nature of the classification dispute. https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/08/11/part-3-why-did-the-doj-and-fbi-execute-the-raid-on-trump-a-culmination-of-four-years-of-threats-and-betrayals/

    [MORE]

    The core issue within the debate surrounded two contradictory reference points: (1) President Trump has ultimate declassification authority. Yes; however, in this example President Trump is also the target of the investigation; so, (2) declassification could be viewed by elements within the investigation as ‘obstruction’. Both of these points were true.

    Also true was the reality that both laws and politics were in play.

    In November 2018 President Trump gave an interview where he discussed the situation as it was visible to him. Democrats and republican opposition, writ large, were working earnestly to remove him from office.

    Here’s a link to the General Principles of declassification [SEE HERE] Yes, the President can declassify anything; however, there is a process that must be followed. Executive order 13526 [Citation Here]

    Following that declassification process the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, then Dan Coats, and the FBI Director, Christopher Wray, and the Attorney General, in this example Rod Rosenstein, needed to “sign-off” on the declassification.

    The process reasoning is simple in the ordinary (non-corrupt) flow of events. The intelligence agencies might need to protect part of the information, such as “sources or methods” of intelligence contained within the classified material.

    Under ordinary declassification procedures the President would likely not want to compromise the ‘sources’ and ‘methods’ and would defer to the intelligence experts.

    President Trump is aware of material that he can use to defend himself from the ongoing ‘impeachment’ plans of Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer. However, President Trump is also seemingly aware of the issues within the process to gain access to the material and actually use it. This is where the concentric circle of lawyers around the Office of The Presidency come into play.

    We have the constitution, we have laws, and we have politics.

    Moving forward there are three background threads that are critical to understanding how this process has unfolded so far:

    The Declassification Conundrum.
    Understanding the Ramifications of President Trump as a target.
    Understanding how intelligence is compartmented.
    All three of these issues come into play.

    Unfortunately, if you have not already invested the time in those three aspects it is easy, very easy, to get lost.

    Because none of the legal linguistics took into account the reality of the actual process for declassifying information, many people were stuck thinking President Trump held sole authority to classify and declassify intelligence without understanding the process.

    Declassification of intelligence is a process, and each person -within the executive branch- inside the process must agree to the process. Making the process even more riddled with issues is the reality that President Trump was the target in a counterintelligence investigation. President Trump was being investigated by Mueller to see if he is under the direct or indirect influence of a foreign power. [In this example, Russia]

    The Mueller probe is an originating counterintelligence investigation that ‘can find’ espionage (see Russian indictments) as well as violations of law (Papadopoulos, Manafort, Flynn). It is critical to remember, the originating probe is not a criminal probe; but Mueller and Weissmann can charge criminality if the investigators encounter interference of their counterintelligence probe; these are the process crimes (perjury, obstruction, lying to congress); or if the probe uncovers direct criminal activity (tax evasion, money laundering, FARA violations etc.).

    Yes, technically President Trump can declassify anything. However, it is also true that technically POTUS doesn’t actually declassify anything. The Office of the President asks for a document to enter into a declassification review process.

    Officials within that process (ODNI, DoD, DoS, FBI, DOJ-NSD, CIA, NSA, etc), based on their unique relationship to the interests within the document(s), can approve or refuse to sign-off based on their specific intelligence interests. This is where compartmented intelligence comes into play.

    Any officer who refuses the request for declassification must justify to the intelligence hub; the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI, Dan Coats). The executive branch intelligence official tells the ODNI (Dan Coats) why they, their unique interests, cannot approve of the declassification request.

    DNI Dan Coats then informs POTUS why the document is not cleared for declassification.

    If he disagrees with the decision of the intelligence official, POTUS then would have to fire, replace and hope the next person in the chain-of-command would sign-off. Given the nuance in the example of President Trump declassifying information that would show he was targeted, and considering the President is under a counterintelligence cloud it was unlikely any officer would break ranks.

    President Trump would have to fire people, and keep firing people, until he gets to a person, inside that specific agency, who would comply.

    Now stop and be reasonable.

    Think about the general political ramifications to that decision. And then think about the ramifications against the reality that President Trump is a target, under the cloud of a counterintelligence probe.

    President Trump asks DNI Dan Coats (intelligence hub) to coordinate the declassification of [fill_in_blank]. If he agrees, in November of 2018 Dan Coats then asks all of the compartmented principles with interest in that specific document. That likely includes the DOJ (after the midterm it’s Matt Whitaker), FBI (Chris Wray), and likely DoS (Mike Pompeo – because of the State Dept aspect to Chris Steele). Also, possibly the NSA and/or Cyber Command.

    If FBI Director Christopher Wray refuses to declassify the document(s) because it is part of the current Mueller counterintelligence probe, of which Trump was a target, then President Trump would have to fire Chris Wray; and, while awaiting a replacement (Senate confirmation seriously doubtful), the request then falls on FBI Deputy Director David Bowdich. [Who would also likely refuse]

    As this hypothetical declassification example is unfolding you can imagine the political damage being carried out. In addition, there’s the looming impeachment process waiting to start. Hopefully, you can see how President Trump could easily be accused of interference or obstruction of justice. So, he had to wait for Mueller to finish.

    Here comes the second betrayal and threat.

    Mueller completed his investigation in April of 2019.

    Within a few weeks, May 2019, the newly appointed and confirmed Attorney General Bill Barr tells President Trump to remove himself from the declassification issue and give him the authority to declassify and release documents because Barr has an investigator (John Durham) to look into the corrupt activity behind the Trump-Russia collusion hoax.

    Ten days before he made the request, Bill Barr had enlisted John Durham to look into all of the issues surrounding the targeting of President Trump and the Clinton campaign involvement in the creation of the Trump-Russia collusion story.

    At the time most people thought what Barr was doing was a good thing. As a result, President Trump agrees to support Bill Barr and on May 23, 2019, delegates the declassification and release to the Attorney General.

    The President is trusting his cabinet officer, the highest law enforcement officer in the country, to do the right thing and expose the wrongdoing he has been the subject of for the past two years.

    It was an easy sell, because the purpose of declassification was ultimately to facilitate a DOJ review of how the intelligence apparatus was used in the 2016 election.

    However, because the DOJ review encompassed intelligence systems (DOJ, FBI, NSA) potentially weaponized in 2016 for political purposes and intents, a strange dynamic existed.

    President Trump carries: (a) declassification authority; but also: (b) an inherent conflict.

    In the DOJ endeavor using John Durham, candidate Trump would have been the target of corrupt agency activity; and therefore, Trump would be considered the target/victim if weaponization were affirmed by evidence collected by Durham.

    To avoid the conflict President Trump designated the U.S. Attorney General as arbiter and decision-maker for the purposes of declassifying evidence within the investigation:

    …”The Attorney General has also been delegated full and complete authority to declassify information pertaining to this investigation, in accordance with the long-established standards for handling classified information.”

    Additionally, AG Bill Barr did not need to assemble the intelligence product for approval by the executive (Trump). Instead, the office of the president is granting the AG full unilateral decision-making as to each product being considered for declassification.

    At the time we noted, this was a huge amount of trust from the President to the Attorney General, and a big responsibility for William Barr:

    [Sec 2] …”With respect to any matter classified under Executive Order 13526 of December 29, 2009 (Classified National Security Information), the Attorney General may, by applying the standard set forth in either section 3.1(a) or section 3.1(d) of Executive Order 13526, declassify, downgrade, or direct the declassification or downgrading of information or intelligence that relates to the Attorney General’s review referred to in section 1 of this memorandum.”

    The position-designate slightly works around custom insofar as the intelligence hub, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (Dan Coats), is given conference – but the decision-making was designated to the Attorney General (Bill Barr).

    Essentially the DNI will be following the instructions of the AG for this Memorandum. This is slightly unusual; but given the purpose, necessary and expected.

    Following protocol, the 2019 Memorandum was specific to the agencies carrying the documentation to be reviewed by the Attorney General: The Secretary of State (Pompeo); the Secretary of Treasury (Mnuchin); the Secretary of Defense (Shanahan); the Secretary of Energy (Perry); the Secretary of Homeland Security (McAleenan); the Director of National Intelligence (Coats); the Director of the CIA (Haspel), and the Attorney General himself (Barr).

    Within the memorandum President Trump did not allow AG Bill Barr to delegate authority. However, all agencies were required to respond to Barr’s authority.

    The purpose of the Declassification Directive, as it was sold to President Trump, also appeared to permit the DOJ Inspector General to include classified material in the body of the (early 2019) pending report on FISA abuse; this memorandum was granting AG Bill Barr the autonomy to make that decision and declassify that content.

    While the purpose of the authority was to empower AG Bill Barr to collect, process and declassify intelligence product that was part of the DOJ investigative review, President Trump did not preclude the public release of intelligence information in advance of the 2019 IG report on FISA abuse.

    Much of the intelligence information may be collected external to the IG review parameters (FISA process) and may be released independently as part of stand-alone declassification that pertains to weaponized DOJ, FBI and CIA political activity. Ultimately the decision to release, and the timing therein, was then in the hands of U.S. Attorney General William Barr.

    On May 23, 2019, with the Mueller investigation in the rear-view President Trump tweeted:

    Unfortunately, as time continued throughout 2019, Attorney General Bill Barr took no action that would declassify any material of interest to the targeting of President Trump.

    AG Bill Barr used the “ongoing criminal investigation,” led by the man he appointed, John Durham, as a justification for non-release of documents.

    Frustration continues to mount as impeachment efforts against President Trump and the painful reality of the Bill Barr motive starts to settle in.

    Bill Barr replaced the obstruction and interference threat carried by Mueller special counsel, with the obstruction and interference threat carried by the Durham special counsel. The ‘ongoing investigation‘ narrative created both swords of Damocles. One created by Rosenstein/Mueller the other created by Barr/Durham.

    Then Bill Barr did something even worse. He made sure Donald Trump could never remove it. . . .

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/08/11/part-3-why-did-the-doj-and-fbi-execute-the-raid-on-trump-a-culmination-of-four-years-of-threats-and-betrayals/

  137. @Alden
    @Anon

    Before commenting on the documents Trump took with him when he left the White House; I suggest you read United States Civil Code Title 22 and Title 18.

    Hint the president of the United States is not an ordinary government worker.

    Obama took 33 million confidential secret and top secret documents with him. Every president since Washington took documents when leaving the White House

    Replies: @Supply and Demand, @Ron Mexico

    Obama was good, and Trump is bad. That’s the difference. If you need that explained to you — re-evaluate your sick and twisted morals.

    • Agree: Alden
  138. @The Alarmist
    They weren’t there for anything Trump had: They were there to try on Melania’s all-American wardrobe.


    https://www.stylegods.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/melania-thjpg.jpg

    Replies: @D. K., @PhysicistDave

    Where did she get a flag from well before she was born (Independence Day 1959, at the latest)?

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @D. K.

    Perhaps it’s the Donald’s flag, taken without authorisation, no doubt, from his days at the New York Military School. Don’t worry, the FBI is on it.

    Replies: @D. K.

  139. @Hypnotoad666
    I already posted about this. It's the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016. He's got dirt on the Deep State that he kept as leverage. And they want it back. Bad.

    They want to indict him. But he can take them down, too.
    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/08/11/part-3-why-did-the-doj-and-fbi-execute-the-raid-on-trump-a-culmination-of-four-years-of-threats-and-betrayals/

    Replies: @michael droy, @JR Ewing, @Ian Smith, @Corvinus, @Harry Baldwin, @Jim Don Bob, @AnotherDad

    It’s the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016. He’s got dirt on the Deep State that he kept as leverage. And they want it back. Bad.

    If true, the problem here is obvious: Trump should have put this material out there.

    Wanting “leverage” so Trump can play some sort of game of chicken with the FBI and deep state is bullshit.

    That’s the problem with Trump–it’s always about Trump.

    Trump is objectively better on the interest of actual Americans than any president in decades. But the guy is an incredible narcissist.

    I don’t mind giving our great leader getting all the pomp and circumstance, all the quasi-imperial lah-de-da. (Though my tastes run much more republican.) But at the end of the day, a real leader of any nation is supposed to put front and center the long term interests of the people of our nation. That’s who he works for.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @AnotherDad


    But at the end of the day, a real leader of any nation is supposed to put front and center the long term interests of the people of our nation.
     
    I had a longer response but Unz blocked me. Trump has tried to get it out. The CH article explains. If risking going to jail for you isn't enough, you'll have to find a tougher candidate. Good luck with that.
  140. @Corvinus
    @petit bourgeois

    Yes, a search warrant. But my point, regardless of the wrong term I used, still stands.

    Replies: @Boomthorkell

    I suppose part of the issue here is you pride yourself on meticulousness as the basis for your arguments and your critiques of other people’s arguments. You present your very being as “being against spirit, but dealing with facts.”

    So, let’s say your point doesn’t stand.

  141. @Curle
    @SunBakedSuburb

    Want to share what it is? This supremacist narrative?

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    That which is conjured by the domestic security services.

  142. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I mashed [AGREE] for your basic point that SHOULD be the case based on the US Constitution. A warrant signed by a judge (yeah, they found one who doesn't have the same standards otherwise) must specify a specific reason for the search - looking of this specific evidence of such-and-such a crime, etc.*

    At the level of Trump, the Deep State, Hillary, Hunter Biden, etc, there has been no rule of law for a long time. (I'm sure Trump is the least corrupt, but he is no principled Constitutionalist either.) One side tries to play by the rule-of-law while the ctrl-left doesn't give a damn about it.

    The story Hypnotoad brought up may be true, but even if Donald Trump had damning evidence of FBI corruption, would anything be done about it later, ever? I suppose if Trump wins in '24, he can try, but it won't get far using the rule-of-law. That's pretty much over with at that level.

    Even at the level of the Arbery case, we had prosecution-shopping (i.e. there shouldn't have been even an arrest), there were highly inappropriate sentences handed down**, and now double jeopardy due to the "hate crimes" stupidity that also not many here seem to have a problem with.

    Face it, in a Banana-Republican society, you will be forced to play it their way eventually. And people wonder why there have been all those "right-wing Juntas" in Latin America on a regular basis. Will it go that far here?

    .

    * This is why I hate the TSA while most others here don't seem to care about "muh Constitution". Searches are done without any specific reason. It's a violation of Amendment IV.

    ** I mean the one guy is in jail for a long time for videoing the incident. WTF??

    Replies: @International Jew, @Cloudbuster, @Curle, @Anonymous, @Travis B. Anderson

    And people wonder why there have been all those “right-wing Juntas” in Latin America on a regular basis. Will it go that far here?

    Depends on if the CIA starts paying them.

  143. @Hypnotoad666
    @JR Ewing


    So if Trump does have this smoking gun document, then he needs to release it and quit “negotiating”. If he’s really an iconoclast, he needs to start acting like one.
     
    I don't know why people are having trouble grasping this: The Deep State will put Trump in Guantanamo Bay for releasing classified information. Everyone thinks they know that "the President can declassify anything." But the Deep State begs to differ. They claim each of the heads of the three-letter agencies have to sign off. They also claim (have claimed) that Trump releasing documents while he's under investigation (which he always is) is "obstruction of justice."

    How'd you like to stake your life on whether a corrupt Democrat Judge in DC will agree with your legal position. Can you even imagine what it's like having the entire Regime and the Deep State dedicating all its resources to putting you in prison.

    Replies: @JR Ewing

    I’m not having trouble grasping it.

    What I’m having trouble grasping – or, rather, what I’m having trouble accepting – is that so many Americans are satisfied being fat and happy and don’t give two shits about being ruled by tyrants so long as they can get their Papa John’s pizza and watch television and let the “rich” people pay the taxes.

    I know that they will throw Trump into Gitmo in a heartbeat. What I wish is that the rest of America wouldn’t let it happen.

    Tree of liberty, Blood of tyrants yadda yadda.

  144. @Anon
    I suspect he had nothing of significance there—what could he theoretically do with the information anyway, even if it were important?

    As with the constant use of the word “insurrection” in relation to the carnivalesque mob wandering into the Capitol on Jan 6, it seems to me that this is just further attempt to smear Trump in the media so that the general public has the sense—or “the vibe”, to use the parlance of our times—that he is unfit for the presidency.

    And I’d say it’s working. He attracts so much bad press, whether fair or unfair, I don’t think even Republicans now have the appetite for him to run. He just brings bad vibes, man.

    I’m not American so I don’t have a horse in the race, but I think DeSantis would be a better choice. He’s essentially a more diplomatic, mature, and ideologically coherent version of Trump.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @Prester John, @Purple, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia

    I’m not quite ready to “Agree,” but I think this theory merits some serious attention.

  145. @Alden
    @epebble

    The president of the United States has the power to classify anything and de classify anything. This power begins as soon as he takes the inaugural oath. And doesn’t end till the president dies.

    Replies: @epebble

    Then there is no case. he just utters the magic phrase “Everything in Mar-A-Lago is declassified”. And the case dies instantly.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @epebble

    Exactly that’s the law. I’m leaning towards the theory that Trump snitched to the FBI himself. For sympathy and to fire up the Republicans. Did you see that pre campaign advertisement that came out early AM on Tuesday the day after the raid?

    Very well done. Not whipped up overnight. Inflation, price of gas, unemployment, 85 million dollars worth of American war materials left behind in Afghanistan. Loyal Afghanis left behind in Afghanistan, worst inflation in 40 years.

    The Trump ad hit both humiliation in foreign affairs and horrible inflation domestically.

    Enjoy the entertainment guys.

    Replies: @epebble

    , @Not Raul
    @epebble

    He’s no longer the President.

    It’s too late for him to declassify anything.

    Replies: @epebble

  146. @anonymous
    One good idea is that the FBI 'mole' inside Mar-a-Lago who tipped off the feds, may ultimately be Trump himself, doing some world-class trolling again

    Trump tells Kushner or somebody that he has the mother lode of criminal stuff in his safe at Mar-a-Lago

    Word rockets up the pipeline to Chicago-born Jewish DOJ chief Merrick Garland aka Garfinkel ... who rushes in with the raid order to Judge Bruce Reinhart, former lawyer for Jeffrey Epstein and now Temple Beth David synagogue trustee, Garland saying 'Just sign it, we got 'im this time!'

    FBI idiots spend 9 hours breaking into the safe, finding cocktail napkins and receipts from McDonalds - EPIC ... half of America now ready to ban the FBI, Trump an icon again, all his failings forgiven

    Merrick Garland's face and body language at the presser suggest he knows this was a real screw up - Garfinkel may be gone shortly after his 70th birthday in November

    Replies: @Ron Mexico, @fish, @New Dealer, @PhysicistDave

    I like your thinking.

  147. @Jonathan Mason
    @Jack D


    Washington, DC is not divided 50/50 – Donald Trump was supported by 5% of the voters in Washington, so practically every bureaucrat in Washington voted against him.
     
    FYI the residents of Washington DC do not get to vote for President and Washington DC appoints no scholars to the electoral college.

    Replies: @SFG, @Mr. Anon, @aNewBanner, @Giant Duck, @Spud Boy, @res, @Hibernian

    What score did you get on your citizenship exam?

    • Thanks: Dnought
  148. @Alden
    @Anon

    Before commenting on the documents Trump took with him when he left the White House; I suggest you read United States Civil Code Title 22 and Title 18.

    Hint the president of the United States is not an ordinary government worker.

    Obama took 33 million confidential secret and top secret documents with him. Every president since Washington took documents when leaving the White House

    Replies: @Supply and Demand, @Ron Mexico

    Which docs did WH Harrison, Taylor, et al take with them?

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Ron Mexico

    Whatever they wanted to take. As was their rightful prerogative as Presidents.

    Replies: @Ron Mexico

  149. @res
    @Jonathan Mason

    Is no one going to challenge this typical Jonathan Mason misinformation?!

    Mason, look up the 23rd amendment.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-third_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_elections_in_the_District_of_Columbia

    P.S. It is a good thing Mason only posts about stuff here which "is something I know about, or something I am interested in." Can you imagine what his comments would be like without that proviso?! /sarc

    See PS of this comment for the relevant quote.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/open-thread-this-weeks-various-trials-of-the-century/#comment-5049809

    Replies: @Jack D, @Giant Duck, @TWS, @Intelligent Dasein, @Veteran Aryan

    He’s like corvie, a reverse barometer. Reliably wrong about everything.

    • LOL: Technite78
  150. @AnotherDad
    @Hypnotoad666


    It’s the documents he was trying to get declassified for four years that show the crimes the FBI and Clinton campaigns committed against him in 2016. He’s got dirt on the Deep State that he kept as leverage. And they want it back. Bad.
     
    If true, the problem here is obvious: Trump should have put this material out there.

    Wanting "leverage" so Trump can play some sort of game of chicken with the FBI and deep state is bullshit.

    That's the problem with Trump--it's always about Trump.

    Trump is objectively better on the interest of actual Americans than any president in decades. But the guy is an incredible narcissist.

    I don't mind giving our great leader getting all the pomp and circumstance, all the quasi-imperial lah-de-da. (Though my tastes run much more republican.) But at the end of the day, a real leader of any nation is supposed to put front and center the long term interests of the people of our nation. That's who he works for.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    But at the end of the day, a real leader of any nation is supposed to put front and center the long term interests of the people of our nation.

    I had a longer response but Unz blocked me. Trump has tried to get it out. The CH article explains. If risking going to jail for you isn’t enough, you’ll have to find a tougher candidate. Good luck with that.

  151. @D. K.
    @The Alarmist

    Where did she get a flag from well before she was born (Independence Day 1959, at the latest)?

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    Perhaps it’s the Donald’s flag, taken without authorisation, no doubt, from his days at the New York Military School. Don’t worry, the FBI is on it.

    • Replies: @D. K.
    @The Alarmist

    According to Wikipedia.org:

    ***

    Donald John Trump was born on June 14, 1946, at Jamaica Hospital in the borough of Queens in New York City,[1][2] the fourth child of Fred Trump, a Bronx-born real estate developer whose parents were German immigrants, and Mary Anne MacLeod Trump, an immigrant from Scotland. Trump grew up with older siblings Maryanne, Fred Jr., and Elizabeth, and younger brother Robert in the Jamaica Estates neighborhood of Queens, and attended the private Kew-Forest School from kindergarten through seventh grade.[3][4][5] At age 13, he was enrolled at the New York Military Academy, a private boarding school,[6] and in 1964, he enrolled at Fordham University. Two years later, he transferred to the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, graduating in May 1968 with a B.S. in economics.[7][8] In 2015, Trump's lawyer Michael Cohen threatened Trump's colleges, high school, and the College Board with legal action if they released Trump's academic records.[9]

    ***

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump#Early_life

    I assume, therefore, that he started at the New York Military Academy in September 1959-- by which time the 48-star flag had been replaced with the short-lived 49-star flag:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/124638823802?hash=item1d050d857a:g:XXgAAOSwJVxgUTI9

  152. @Ron Mexico
    @Alden

    Which docs did WH Harrison, Taylor, et al take with them?

    Replies: @Alden

    Whatever they wanted to take. As was their rightful prerogative as Presidents.

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    @Alden

    Harrison, Taylor and 6 others died while in office.

    Replies: @Alden

  153. If the 2016 unwoke version of Bernie Sanders had been elected in 2016, the deep state would have done pretty much the same thing to Bernie that they did to Trump. Obviously, the details would have been different, but the attempt to undermine his presidency would have been, essentially, the same.

    Also, the only reason that Trump won in 2016 was that the deep state thought that Trump had no chance, so they didn’t go into full cheat mode (like they did in 2020). If the deep state had understood the 2016 presidential election would be close, they would have intervened and Hillary Clinton would have won.

    • Troll: Corvinus
  154. @Buzz Mohawk
    It doesn't matter what he putatively had "stashed." To ask the question is to fall for the deceit. There is no excuse for the raid. One doesn't even have to like the former president to understand this.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Peter Akuleyev, @Corvinus, @American Citizen, @Chrisnonymous

    I’m undecided on whether there was something they actually wanted to retrieve, but the point remains true that the raid was unjustified.

    If it was an excuse to bring charges against Trump, we’ll find out what they were “looking for” soon enough. On the other hand, if, as Sundance suggeats, they were trying to remove from Trump’s possession evidence incriminating FBI/DOJ of corruption, we won’t hear about anything unless it’s “oh look a squirrel” materials.

  155. @epebble
    @Alden

    Then there is no case. he just utters the magic phrase "Everything in Mar-A-Lago is declassified". And the case dies instantly.

    Replies: @Alden, @Not Raul

    Exactly that’s the law. I’m leaning towards the theory that Trump snitched to the FBI himself. For sympathy and to fire up the Republicans. Did you see that pre campaign advertisement that came out early AM on Tuesday the day after the raid?

    Very well done. Not whipped up overnight. Inflation, price of gas, unemployment, 85 million dollars worth of American war materials left behind in Afghanistan. Loyal Afghanis left behind in Afghanistan, worst inflation in 40 years.

    The Trump ad hit both humiliation in foreign affairs and horrible inflation domestically.

    Enjoy the entertainment guys.

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Alden

    Trump snitched to the FBI himself

    That is my theory too. Because anyone with 2 brain cells would have called an assistant at Mar-A-Lago and asked him/her to copy all the documents listed in the June Subpoena and return the originals to FBI/NARA. That would have buried the problem as NARA was only interested in getting the originals, not concerned about unauthorized copies floating around with Trump. This is carefully orchestrated by Trump to regain leadership in Republican party as it was appearing to be dissipating. He is a political genius.

  156. What Did Trump REALLY Have Stashed at Mar-Lago?

    Answer? JACK SQUAT.

    Trump has been hounded for six years by these agencies. Do you think for a second he would place anything of any danger to him or his family in his family home?

    He has seen what the FBI did to all his friends and colleagues. He has learned they are corrupted and weaponized. He is not stupid.

    Tit for Tat motherfuckers. I can’t wait for the Republicans to take both the house and the senate come November.

    Also what a lot of Americans are missing is that there will be new Governors in all the corrupted Swing States that gave Biden the win. All of those electoral votes will be rescinded by their new Governors. Invalidating the Biden Presidency.

    Add to that the Impeachment trial that will soon begin. The Communist Democrats are in deep trouble and they know it.

  157. What Did Trump REALLY Have Stashed at Mar-Lago?

    Answer? JACK SQUAT.

    Trump has been hounded for six years by these agencies. Do you think for a second he would place anything of any danger to him or his family in his family home?

    He has seen what the FBI did to all his friends and colleagues. He has learned they are corrupted and weaponized. He is not stupid.

    Tit for Tat a-holes. I can’t wait for the Republicans to take both the house and the senate come November.

    Also what a lot of Americans are missing is that there will be new Governors in all the corrupted Swing States that gave Biden the win. All of those electoral votes will be rescinded by their new Governors. Invalidating the Biden Presidency. All of MSM will have no choice but to cover it.

    Add to that the Impeachment trial that will soon begin. The Communist Democrats are in deep trouble and they know it.

  158. @res
    @Jonathan Mason

    Is no one going to challenge this typical Jonathan Mason misinformation?!

    Mason, look up the 23rd amendment.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-third_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_elections_in_the_District_of_Columbia

    P.S. It is a good thing Mason only posts about stuff here which "is something I know about, or something I am interested in." Can you imagine what his comments would be like without that proviso?! /sarc

    See PS of this comment for the relevant quote.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/open-thread-this-weeks-various-trials-of-the-century/#comment-5049809

    Replies: @Jack D, @Giant Duck, @TWS, @Intelligent Dasein, @Veteran Aryan

    Is no one going to challenge this typical Jonathan Mason misinformation?!

    I usually just scroll over posts by Jonathan Mason.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @Intelligent Dasein

    I use the "commenters to ignore" feature.

  159. @Nodwink
    If the rumor about Trump giving nuclear secrets to the Saudis are true, then all those photoshops of Trump in an orange jumpsuit that boomer Dems post to Facebook are going to become reality. There must have been some connection the Saudi-sponsored golf tournament, it seems like a plot from some 80s TV show.

    Replies: @Thea, @Nodwink

    The Saudi connection, Jarvanka and refusal to aid January 6th defendants has soured me to him.

    But at least he does have the right enemies and he got people talking about the borders. I’d hate to see him arrested even if he did wrong. The FBI has done much worse to Americans.

  160. @Cloudbuster
    It's obvious.

    http://i0.wp.com/www.cactushugs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/indiana-jones-ark-of-the-covenant.jpg

    Replies: @Emil Nikola Richard, @Chrisnonymous

    Where are the Mar-a-Lago documents now?
    Will we ever see them?
    Who did Garland assign to the case? Top men. TOP… MEN…

    • LOL: Cloudbuster
  161. @Achmed E. Newman
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    Agreed, and this part was downright hilarious, A-G:


    Trump gets the flak because he’s the one over the target. Ron DeSantis will get the same treatment. They’ll call him the “Butcher of Florida,” with COVID corpses piled up along the Florida roadways. Tearful Holocaust survivors on oxygen in biohazard suits will be wheeled out to say Ron DeSantis gave them COVID. Deranged teenaged girls will show their cutting scars and claim it’s because Adolf DeSantis won’t let them say gay.
     
    Haaaha! That outta my system, I would still like to see Gov. DeSantis run for the '24 Pres. election. He is not the bullshitter Trump is, he can think straight and make a strategy rather than spend his time tweeting like a schoolgirl, he has actual principles, including understanding Federalism and, well, what Mr. Anon wrote above about Trump.

    Trump is the rallying point though. That's why they want to get him. Perhaps this can magically work out to be a good thing. What Ron DeSantis needs is a mole at the NSA that can get dirt on anyone that comes up with anything on him. That's the way you'd have to do it - hit them back the same way.

    I wish I had applied for the NSA back in the day. I'd be an Ed Snowden on steroids by now. Ron Unz, don't let them crack open your server. Take the cyanide before giving out the PW. You know I'd do the same for you.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    Ron Unz, don’t let them crack open your server. Take the cyanide before giving out the PW. You know I’d do the same for you.

    This is more serious than you think.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Chrisnonymous

    Relax, everybody here is behind 7 proxies. We're not that dumb!

  162. Anon[581] • Disclaimer says:

    I am convinced that a lot of American liberals detest Trump because they think he’s low class and beneath him, and liberalism itself is just a tool they’re using to cover up their class hatred. Your average hardcore liberal would never hang out with a black because they can’t stand real live blacks. The left is brilliant at coming up with an ideology that lets them off the hook for their behaviors, and which disguises their hatreds.

    But their primary motive for adopting a liberal philosophy is that it allows them to express class hatred in a disguised way. Being able to hate is more important to them than the liberal philosophy itself.

    In sum:

    “I hate Trump because I’m a liberal, and because I am a liberal you have to acknowledge that I am not an evil person for hating someone I think is low class or who represents the lower class. No, I don’t hate the lower class, even though I hate everything about the lower class, you can’t possibly accuse me of that because I’m a liberal and liberals are good people.”

    “I don’t hate blacks because I’m a liberal, and just because I never hang around blacks you have to acknowledge that I’m not an evil person because I’m a liberal.”

    Liberalism isn’t a political philosophy for these people; it’s an excuse, an excuse they use to con other people.

    • Replies: @Veteran Aryan
    @Anon


    Being able to hate is more important to them than the liberal philosophy itself.
     
    Being able to use hate as a force to manipulate the masses is what's important to them. I believe they've amply demonstrated that they don't buy into their own bullshit.
  163. @anonymous
    One good idea is that the FBI 'mole' inside Mar-a-Lago who tipped off the feds, may ultimately be Trump himself, doing some world-class trolling again

    Trump tells Kushner or somebody that he has the mother lode of criminal stuff in his safe at Mar-a-Lago

    Word rockets up the pipeline to Chicago-born Jewish DOJ chief Merrick Garland aka Garfinkel ... who rushes in with the raid order to Judge Bruce Reinhart, former lawyer for Jeffrey Epstein and now Temple Beth David synagogue trustee, Garland saying 'Just sign it, we got 'im this time!'

    FBI idiots spend 9 hours breaking into the safe, finding cocktail napkins and receipts from McDonalds - EPIC ... half of America now ready to ban the FBI, Trump an icon again, all his failings forgiven

    Merrick Garland's face and body language at the presser suggest he knows this was a real screw up - Garfinkel may be gone shortly after his 70th birthday in November

    Replies: @Ron Mexico, @fish, @New Dealer, @PhysicistDave

    I like your thinking too!

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @fish

    I wish Trump were that smart too!!

  164. @res
    @Jonathan Mason

    Is no one going to challenge this typical Jonathan Mason misinformation?!

    Mason, look up the 23rd amendment.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-third_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_elections_in_the_District_of_Columbia

    P.S. It is a good thing Mason only posts about stuff here which "is something I know about, or something I am interested in." Can you imagine what his comments would be like without that proviso?! /sarc

    See PS of this comment for the relevant quote.
    https://www.unz.com/isteve/open-thread-this-weeks-various-trials-of-the-century/#comment-5049809

    Replies: @Jack D, @Giant Duck, @TWS, @Intelligent Dasein, @Veteran Aryan

    Is no one going to challenge this typical Jonathan Mason misinformation?!

    Steve reads the New York Times so we don’t have to. You, you read Jonathan Mason so we don’t have to.

  165. @Servant of Gla'aki
    I think the raid was motivated by the desire to prove that Trump had violated the Federal Records Act (or whatever), in order to bar him from running for re-election in 2024.
    It seems clear they weren’t sure whether they’d find any evidence that they could use to that effect, and it appears that they did not. I suspect it was argued that if they did search Mar-a-Lago, and came up empty handed, that this would play right into Trump’s hands. I suspect this point was argued rather strenuously. But in the end, the chance to keep Trump off the ballot was too great a temptation for them, and they unwisely moved ahead with this cockamamie scheme.

    48 hours ago, I was leaning towards DeSantis being the stealth front-runner, but now it’s clearly Trump again, for better or worse.

    Replies: @Alden

    Latest lie from the FBI is that Trump violated the nuclear weapons section of the espionage act.

  166. @epebble
    @Jack D

    Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    That can't be true. Otherwise, a President can never accidentally (or otherwise) mishandle classified information. For example, many an eyebrow was raised when Trump hosted Russian Ambassador and Foreign Minister at the Oval Office for fear that some classified information may be leaked.

    Photos of Trump's closed-door meeting with Russian officials raise eyebrows
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/photos-trump-russia-sergey-lavrov-sergey-kislyak-oval-office-meeting/

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden, @Ben tillman, @Curle

    So do the obscenity liberals believe Lavrov asked President Trump a distracting question while Kislyak stuck an invisible thumb drive into the President’s computer?

    That’s how it’s done in movies and spy novels.

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Alden

    It was not about thumb drives or computers. Some officials became concerned after Trump declassified some Israeli intelligence operations in Syria to Russians.

    https://www.newsweek.com/trump-revealed-secret-israeli-mission-northern-syria-russian-diplomats-720600

  167. I read a number of the comments, but did anyone suggest that Trump was telling the truth when he said that everything was declassified?

    And that this whole episode was to fix the midterm elections? The deep state and the media will grind away on this story until November, and tar all Republicans with the same brush.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @Anon7

    Anon7 asked:


    I read a number of the comments, but did anyone suggest that Trump was telling the truth when he said that everything was declassified?

    And that this whole episode was to fix the midterm elections?
     
    That's pretty obviously true, isn't it?

    Anon also wrote:

    The deep state and the media will grind away on this story until November, and tar all Republicans with the same brush.
     
    Apparently, they are even dumber than I used to think they were: they have unified the Republican Party and handed the GOP nomination to Trump.
  168. @fish
    @anonymous

    I like your thinking too!

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    I wish Trump were that smart too!!

  169. @The Alarmist
    They weren’t there for anything Trump had: They were there to try on Melania’s all-American wardrobe.


    https://www.stylegods.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/melania-thjpg.jpg

    Replies: @D. K., @PhysicistDave

    The Alarmist wrote:

    They weren’t there for anything Trump had: They were there to try on Melania’s all-American wardrobe.

    Goes way back in the FBI.

    Am I the only one who remembers all those stories about J. Edgar Hoover?

    • LOL: Not Raul
  170. @Anon7
    I read a number of the comments, but did anyone suggest that Trump was telling the truth when he said that everything was declassified?

    And that this whole episode was to fix the midterm elections? The deep state and the media will grind away on this story until November, and tar all Republicans with the same brush.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    Anon7 asked:

    I read a number of the comments, but did anyone suggest that Trump was telling the truth when he said that everything was declassified?

    And that this whole episode was to fix the midterm elections?

    That’s pretty obviously true, isn’t it?

    Anon also wrote:

    The deep state and the media will grind away on this story until November, and tar all Republicans with the same brush.

    Apparently, they are even dumber than I used to think they were: they have unified the Republican Party and handed the GOP nomination to Trump.

  171. @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    “First, they can list whatever they want (vaguely and broadly if they choose) on the warrant and then grab what they really came for.”

    That is not how a requesting for and executing a search warrant works, especially in this case with so much scrutiny. Specific items must be listed, with legal reasons as to why.

    “They were reportedly occupying the house for 9.5 hours. So it seems like they didn’t get what they actually were looking for.”

    More likely is that they spent considerable time to meticulously comb through the area and obtain the relevant materials per the warrant. Why did he have those documents in the first place when his legal team had stated they complied with past presidential procedures?

    Why doesn’t he simply dump all the dirt YOU claim he has on the Deep State and finish it once and for all?

    “Second, Trump has an issue of whether it’s classified or not. He ordered it de-classified and the Deep State hacks refused to do it.”

    More likely they followed past precedent and Trump’s request was denied That is why there are layers of protection. Again, if Trump has the goods, why not open up the floodgates? Besides, what specific evidence do you have that what Trump has in his possession, or wanted, IS indeed “dirt” on Shitlery and the FBI?

    “So he has to be careful about how and when it could be disclosed. And whether he can admit to having it.”

    Lol, no, he really doesn’t. He promised to drain the swamp beyond any means necessary. Here is his opportunity. Since when he is cautious?

    The Conservative Treehouse article does a good job of outlining what the documents may include.

    “They claim fairly persuasively that Obama’s crew 2012-2016 had opened the NSA database to Perkins Coie to do mass opposition political research through FBI “contractors.””

    Claim, yes. With speculation dressed up as evidence.

    “Taking these docs on the theory that he had declassified them seems like a move Trump would make.”

    Great! Why doesn’t Trump release them? Doesn’t he want to take out the Deep State?

    “Seems more plausible than the alternate “national archive overdue library book” theory.”

    Less plausible.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Hypnotoad666, @PhysicistDave, @Alden, @Peter D. Bredon

    “First, they can list whatever they want (vaguely and broadly if they choose) on the warrant and then grab what they really came for.”

    That is not how a requesting for and executing a search warrant works, especially in this case with so much scrutiny. Specific items must be listed, with legal reasons as to why.

    Actual Warrant Request: “c. Any government and/or Presidential records created between January 20, 2017 and January 20, 2021;”

  172. @Anon
    I am convinced that a lot of American liberals detest Trump because they think he's low class and beneath him, and liberalism itself is just a tool they're using to cover up their class hatred. Your average hardcore liberal would never hang out with a black because they can't stand real live blacks. The left is brilliant at coming up with an ideology that lets them off the hook for their behaviors, and which disguises their hatreds.

    But their primary motive for adopting a liberal philosophy is that it allows them to express class hatred in a disguised way. Being able to hate is more important to them than the liberal philosophy itself.

    In sum:

    "I hate Trump because I'm a liberal, and because I am a liberal you have to acknowledge that I am not an evil person for hating someone I think is low class or who represents the lower class. No, I don't hate the lower class, even though I hate everything about the lower class, you can't possibly accuse me of that because I'm a liberal and liberals are good people."

    "I don't hate blacks because I'm a liberal, and just because I never hang around blacks you have to acknowledge that I'm not an evil person because I'm a liberal."

    Liberalism isn't a political philosophy for these people; it's an excuse, an excuse they use to con other people.

    Replies: @Veteran Aryan

    Being able to hate is more important to them than the liberal philosophy itself.

    Being able to use hate as a force to manipulate the masses is what’s important to them. I believe they’ve amply demonstrated that they don’t buy into their own bullshit.

  173. @epebble
    @Alden

    Then there is no case. he just utters the magic phrase "Everything in Mar-A-Lago is declassified". And the case dies instantly.

    Replies: @Alden, @Not Raul

    He’s no longer the President.

    It’s too late for him to declassify anything.

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Not Raul

    Per

    New twist in FBI raid: Trump had 'standing order' to declassify documents taken to residence

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/breaking-trump-describes-process-how-he-declassified-documents

    So, anything he touched was automatically declassified.

  174. @Not Raul
    J. Edgar Hoover had personal files filled with information that he could use for blackmail.

    Trump probably does the same thing.

    Supposedly, some of Trump’s files pertain to surveillance of French government officials. That might be used to blackmail those officials, or blackmail intelligence officials who want the extent of that surveillance to remain hidden from France.

    Trump could also have files related to Iran’s nuclear program, and intelligence sources related to monitoring that program.

    He might also have files that pertain to Hunter Biden, Ukraine, or both.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Update from Poso — take it with a grain of salt

  175. @Corvinus
    @Jack D

    “This bureaucratic gobbledygook just proves my point.”

    It assuredly does not. There is a process by which documents are handled and declassified. That’s how it has worked in the past. There hasn’t been an issue of this magnitude before to my knowledge. It appears the Trump team had said they followed the protocols, and it was discovered they lied. That’s what Trump is known for.

    “To the extent that Congress has passed laws that try to regulate what goes on inside the Executive branch, they are probably unconstitutional just as the President has no authority to micro-manage the inner workings of Congress or the Supreme Court.“

    Do you want some Grey Poupon for your red herring?

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Curle

    Corvinus wrote to Jack D:

    [Jack] “This bureaucratic gobbledygook just proves my point.”

    [Corvy] It assuredly does not. There is a process by which documents are handled and declassified.

    As usual, Corvy, you are utterly ignorant of what you are talking about.

    I did technical work for the US Intelligence Community back in the ’80s and ’90s.

    Unlike you, I actually know quite a lot about the classification system.

    For example, the really hot material, the kind of stuff that would allow enemies to kill or work-around our weapons systems, is “Sensitive Compartmented Information” and is restricted to highly secure environments — so-called “SCIFs,” colloquially known as “tanks.”

    Such data was not just lying around the Oval Office waiting for someone to pack it up or dispose of it.

    Again, I know a great deal about this personally from my own professional experience.

    You don’t.

    Also, Presidents have the final, unilateral say on classification matters: they do not have to go through what you call “a process by which documents are… declassified.”

    Investigative journalist John Solomon has a detailed report just up on his Just the News site detailing all this.

    Read it, Corvy, you might educate yourself. (On second thought: don’t bother — you’re ineducable.)

    And CBSNews’ Intel expert Catherine Herridge just came out with a report that hints that the Mar-a-Lago raid may have been an attempt by DoJ to regain control of the documents that Trump declassified on the “Crossfire Hurricane” attempted coup against his Presidency.

    Her key summary:

    Then President #Trump issued this memorandum 1/19/2021 on declassification FBI Crossfire Hurricane records. Circulated to AG, DNI, CIA. May now be relevant once full holdings from Monday search at Mar-a-Largo catalogued.

    This is gonna be a lot bigger than Watergate or, to go back in history, the Dreyfus Affair.

    Hopefully, it will result in finally carrying out JFK’s desire to smash the Deep State into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds.

    Again, Corvy, I have a great deal of professional knowledge from having worked for a number of years for the US Intelligence Community. You don’t.

    • Thanks: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @PhysicistDave

    “Read the warrant, Corvy. It cover everything from the Trump Presidency”

    Of course it dies. There’s no surprise there. What matters is that it specified what types of documents he was prohibited from having in his possession at his residence as a former President.

    “Yes, such a warrant is indeed illegal: If this were ever to go to trial, Trump’s lawyers could probably get all the evidence that was seized squelched.”

    Says who? You haven’t even made a legal argument.

    “My step-mom worked for a judge in Jefferson Country, Missouri some years ago. The judge just pre-signed a bunch of search warrant forms and had my step-mom give them to the cops when they wanted a warrant and the judge happened not be around.”

    Pics, or it never happened—Steve Sailer

    Listen, your anecdote is not smoking gun evidence that every judge or most judges mishandle search warrants. You would have to demonstrate proof in each and every case rather than make this blanket statement.

    “ I did technical work for the US Intelligence Community back in the ’80s and ’90s.
    Unlike you, I actually know quite a lot about the classification system.”

    Appeal to (alleged) authority. Anyone can make that claim on the Internet. You are simply providing YOUR opinion on the matter.

    “Such data was not just lying around the Oval Office waiting for someone to pack it up or dispose of it.”

    That would be a strawman. This information was seemingly ordered by Trump to be taken without going through the process. Why is a former President in possession of such materials at his own house in the first place? What does he need them for?

    “Also, Presidents have the final, unilateral say on classification matters: they do not have to go through what you call “a process by which documents are… declassified.”

    Yes, a president must go through a process to declassify documents. Even Hypontoad’s source acknowledges it. Additionally, it is unlikely he held the authority to declassify some of what was potentially contained in the documents. And members of Congress also have protocols in place.

    https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp-video/mmvo146081349581

    Furthermore, a lawyer for former President Trump signed a written statement in June 2023 asserting that all material marked as classified and held in boxes in a storage area at Mr. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and club had been returned to the government.

    It also looks like one of Trump’s hand picked aides, Garrett Ziegler, posted the personal info of purported FBI agents involved in the warrant—along with links to one of their kids’ social media accounts.

    “And CBSNews’ Intel expert Catherine Herridge just came out with a report”

    Lol, it wasn’t her report, she tweeted a Trump memorandum. The problem with his position of “declassifying everything by unwritten fiat” argument is not just the absence of any contemporaneous evidence that it happened; it is that, if presidents had that kind of power, President Biden could just reclassify everything Trump declassified in one fell swoop.

    The “standing order” is simply cover for Trump regarding declassifying and reclassifying documents. Remember, the Trump team has known the contents of the search warrant since last Monday, but are only just mentioning the supposed standing order this past Friday night, the day the warrant was publicly released.

    So Trump declassifies hundreds of documents through a “standing order”on his way out because he has that authority, and then Biden, under that same alleged power, is able to reclassify them immediately. See how idiotic it gets?

    While Presidents do have wide latitude to declassify information, that power ends when their term concludes. And there are also specific federal regulations outlining a process for declassifying information. Presidents do not have complete and total control here.

    So where is the precedence for a former President to keep these exact types of records in their residence

  176. @MEH 0910
    @Giant Duck


    however, since my comments are typically stuck in mod for anywhere from 6 hours to two days, these kinds of contributions get entirely left out of the debate. Alas.
     
    You're the commenter who got their start by giving Steve the April Reign/April Sands scoop. Your comments deserve better than to be stuck in moderation.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/is-celebrated-inventor-of-oscarssowhite-april-reign-also-april-sands-of-an-obama-administration-scandal/


    iSteve commenter Giant Duck has pointed out that April Reign’s @ReignOfApril twitter account was formerly in use by Federal Election Commission official April Sands in an Obama Administration scandal linked to Sands’ ex-boss Lois Lerner.
     

    Replies: @MEH 0910


    https://www.dailywire.com/news/judge-who-signed-off-on-fbi-raid-was-far-more-sympathetic-when-democrat-irs-officials-30000-emails-disappeared

    The Florida judge who reportedly signed off on the warrant permitting the FBI to raid the home of former President Trump — where they allegedly looked for classified documents — was far more sympathetic back in the day when tens of thousands of emails of Democrat Lois Lerner, then head of a division of the IRS and harsh critic of conservatives, disappeared.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Steve Sailer Retweeted:
    https://twitter.com/CitizenFreePres/status/1556999885194657799

  177. @Jack D
    He stole Hillary's secret cookie recipe from the White House files.

    It can't possibly be nuclear secrets because the President determines what is classified. Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    The Left would like the President to be just another civil servant who is bound by the rules of the Permanent Government. For example, they were upset that Trump just pardoned whoever he wanted to pardon and didn't follow the recommendations of some committee. They were upset that Trump expected the head of the FBI to take orders from him. They would like the President to be defanged like the British Queen where nominally she has vast powers but in reality she just does whatever she is directed to do by the permanent government so that she actually has no power at all and is just a figurehead.

    But that's not how it works under our Constitution. The President is our the head of State, the Executive, the Commander in Chief. This means that he is different than ordinary mortals. He has the power of life and death - he can order hits on Zawahiri and it's not murder. He can certainly declassify his own papers. Some bureaucrat in the CIA does not have powers of classification that are higher than the President's - any power that the bureaucrat has derives from that of the President.

    This doesn't mean that the President is above the law, if the law means something that has been passed by Congress and signed into law. But anything that is in the nature of Executive power, he is the ultimate authority. This is what Nixon meant when he said "When the President does it, it's not a crime." Nixon BTW was, in between being VP and President, a lawyer in NY at the head of his own good sized firm and as smart a lawyer as any, so he wasn't bullshitting when he said this.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Greta Handel, @Jonathan Mason, @Corvinus, @Achmed E. Newman, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @epebble, @Bernard, @Ben tillman

    That might be your best comment ever.

  178. @epebble
    @Jack D

    Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    That can't be true. Otherwise, a President can never accidentally (or otherwise) mishandle classified information. For example, many an eyebrow was raised when Trump hosted Russian Ambassador and Foreign Minister at the Oval Office for fear that some classified information may be leaked.

    Photos of Trump's closed-door meeting with Russian officials raise eyebrows
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/photos-trump-russia-sergey-lavrov-sergey-kislyak-oval-office-meeting/

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden, @Ben tillman, @Curle

    Eyebrows were raised because they hated Trump, not because he wasn’t authorized to disclose classified info to anyone at any time.

  179. @Alden
    @epebble

    Exactly that’s the law. I’m leaning towards the theory that Trump snitched to the FBI himself. For sympathy and to fire up the Republicans. Did you see that pre campaign advertisement that came out early AM on Tuesday the day after the raid?

    Very well done. Not whipped up overnight. Inflation, price of gas, unemployment, 85 million dollars worth of American war materials left behind in Afghanistan. Loyal Afghanis left behind in Afghanistan, worst inflation in 40 years.

    The Trump ad hit both humiliation in foreign affairs and horrible inflation domestically.

    Enjoy the entertainment guys.

    Replies: @epebble

    Trump snitched to the FBI himself

    That is my theory too. Because anyone with 2 brain cells would have called an assistant at Mar-A-Lago and asked him/her to copy all the documents listed in the June Subpoena and return the originals to FBI/NARA. That would have buried the problem as NARA was only interested in getting the originals, not concerned about unauthorized copies floating around with Trump. This is carefully orchestrated by Trump to regain leadership in Republican party as it was appearing to be dissipating. He is a political genius.

    • Thanks: Alden
  180. @Not Raul
    @epebble

    He’s no longer the President.

    It’s too late for him to declassify anything.

    Replies: @epebble

    Per

    New twist in FBI raid: Trump had ‘standing order’ to declassify documents taken to residence

    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/all-things-trump/breaking-trump-describes-process-how-he-declassified-documents

    So, anything he touched was automatically declassified.

  181. @Alden
    @epebble

    So do the obscenity liberals believe Lavrov asked President Trump a distracting question while Kislyak stuck an invisible thumb drive into the President’s computer?

    That’s how it’s done in movies and spy novels.

    Replies: @epebble

    It was not about thumb drives or computers. Some officials became concerned after Trump declassified some Israeli intelligence operations in Syria to Russians.

    https://www.newsweek.com/trump-revealed-secret-israeli-mission-northern-syria-russian-diplomats-720600

  182. @anonymous
    One good idea is that the FBI 'mole' inside Mar-a-Lago who tipped off the feds, may ultimately be Trump himself, doing some world-class trolling again

    Trump tells Kushner or somebody that he has the mother lode of criminal stuff in his safe at Mar-a-Lago

    Word rockets up the pipeline to Chicago-born Jewish DOJ chief Merrick Garland aka Garfinkel ... who rushes in with the raid order to Judge Bruce Reinhart, former lawyer for Jeffrey Epstein and now Temple Beth David synagogue trustee, Garland saying 'Just sign it, we got 'im this time!'

    FBI idiots spend 9 hours breaking into the safe, finding cocktail napkins and receipts from McDonalds - EPIC ... half of America now ready to ban the FBI, Trump an icon again, all his failings forgiven

    Merrick Garland's face and body language at the presser suggest he knows this was a real screw up - Garfinkel may be gone shortly after his 70th birthday in November

    Replies: @Ron Mexico, @fish, @New Dealer, @PhysicistDave

    It also occurred to me that it would be quite plausible that Trump entrapped the DOJ. Didn’t he out a leaker at the White House by giving each suspect a different juicy falsehood? Anyway, back in the day he faked being his own P.R. guy, in order to manipulate media coverage, both as “John Miller” and “John Barron.” Whatever his policy imperfections, he is a genius at media manipulation and throwing his opponents off balance.

  183. @Hypnotoad666
    @Jack D


    When the US became a continental nation, the capital should have been moved to Kansas where it would have been more reflective of the country as a whole and not just one region.
     
    Unfortunately DC creates its own region, wherever you locate it. The permanent bureaucrats and the camp-following lawyers, lobbyists, and consultants create their own left-wing grifter community.

    They really do need to get rid of DC as it's own judicial district, though. As any political case is now tried before a biased jury of authoritarian left-wing Democrats.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    When the US became a continental nation, the capital should have been moved to Kansas where it would have been more reflective of the country as a whole and not just one region.

    Unfortunately DC creates its own region, wherever you locate it. The permanent bureaucrats and the camp-following lawyers, lobbyists, and consultants create their own left-wing grifter community.

    The problem isn’t the location, but the size. A tumor is a tumor.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
  184. @The Alarmist
    @D. K.

    Perhaps it’s the Donald’s flag, taken without authorisation, no doubt, from his days at the New York Military School. Don’t worry, the FBI is on it.

    Replies: @D. K.

    According to Wikipedia.org:

    ***

    Donald John Trump was born on June 14, 1946, at Jamaica Hospital in the borough of Queens in New York City,[1][2] the fourth child of Fred Trump, a Bronx-born real estate developer whose parents were German immigrants, and Mary Anne MacLeod Trump, an immigrant from Scotland. Trump grew up with older siblings Maryanne, Fred Jr., and Elizabeth, and younger brother Robert in the Jamaica Estates neighborhood of Queens, and attended the private Kew-Forest School from kindergarten through seventh grade.[3][4][5] At age 13, he was enrolled at the New York Military Academy, a private boarding school,[6] and in 1964, he enrolled at Fordham University. Two years later, he transferred to the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, graduating in May 1968 with a B.S. in economics.[7][8] In 2015, Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen threatened Trump’s colleges, high school, and the College Board with legal action if they released Trump’s academic records.[9]

    ***

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump#Early_life

    I assume, therefore, that he started at the New York Military Academy in September 1959– by which time the 48-star flag had been replaced with the short-lived 49-star flag:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/124638823802?hash=item1d050d857a:g:XXgAAOSwJVxgUTI9

  185. @Nodwink
    If the rumor about Trump giving nuclear secrets to the Saudis are true, then all those photoshops of Trump in an orange jumpsuit that boomer Dems post to Facebook are going to become reality. There must have been some connection the Saudi-sponsored golf tournament, it seems like a plot from some 80s TV show.

    Replies: @Thea, @Nodwink

    Off topic, but: did you know that you got a mention in the Jeet Heer piece in Commonweal magazine? It was quite a good article, overall.

  186. @Mr. Anon

    What Did Trump REALLY Have Stashed at Mar-Lago?
     
    It hardly matters. Whatever it is, the old Prima Donna will twist the matter around to make it all about himself. He's probably already fund-raising off of it, and the upswing in support for him may well convince him to run again.

    The man's narcissism is boundless, and he will be the ruin of any cause he touches.

    Replies: @vinteuil, @Etruscan Film Star

    The man’s narcissism is boundless, and he will be the ruin of any cause he touches.

    Yes, in Trump’s mind the galaxy revolves around him. But given the Deep State’s obsession, its determination to bring him down by any means necessary, he can almost be forgiven for thinking so.

    It’s not clear that his narcissism casts a curse on any movement he is involved in. He was just as self-centered in the 2016 campaign, and it took him to the Oval Office. He mostly blew the opportunity, I think because he had a businessman’s mentality — if you’re the company boss, you can pretty much count on the loyalty of the team members you hire. In politics it’s a different story. Anyone elevated to the executive rank is a power center of their own.

    DeSantis would be my choice for the next president, not because he is a flawless diamond but because he has been seasoned in the hard school of politics (and seems to have learned its lessons well). But if Trump is chosen to make another run, we’ll have to cross our fingers and hope his four years in office and four years in the wilderness have encouraged him to register facts outside his ego.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    @Etruscan Film Star

    Etruscan Film Star wrote:


    [Trump] mostly blew the opportunity, I think because he had a businessman’s mentality — if you’re the company boss, you can pretty much count on the loyalty of the team members you hire. In politics it’s a different story. Anyone elevated to the executive rank is a power center of their own.
     
    I think that's correct.

    But I rather suspect Trump has now learned from experience.

    I was leaning towards supporting DeSantis or Hawley for the 2024 nomination.

    After 8-8, I am now leaning towards Trump.

    I think he will now have a deep and abiding obsession with annihilating the Deep State.

    Which is what is needed.

    And I am not sure anyone else will have quite the same personal drive.
  187. @Etruscan Film Star
    @Mr. Anon


    The man’s narcissism is boundless, and he will be the ruin of any cause he touches.
     
    Yes, in Trump's mind the galaxy revolves around him. But given the Deep State's obsession, its determination to bring him down by any means necessary, he can almost be forgiven for thinking so.

    It's not clear that his narcissism casts a curse on any movement he is involved in. He was just as self-centered in the 2016 campaign, and it took him to the Oval Office. He mostly blew the opportunity, I think because he had a businessman's mentality -- if you're the company boss, you can pretty much count on the loyalty of the team members you hire. In politics it's a different story. Anyone elevated to the executive rank is a power center of their own.

    DeSantis would be my choice for the next president, not because he is a flawless diamond but because he has been seasoned in the hard school of politics (and seems to have learned its lessons well). But if Trump is chosen to make another run, we'll have to cross our fingers and hope his four years in office and four years in the wilderness have encouraged him to register facts outside his ego.

    Replies: @PhysicistDave

    Etruscan Film Star wrote:

    [Trump] mostly blew the opportunity, I think because he had a businessman’s mentality — if you’re the company boss, you can pretty much count on the loyalty of the team members you hire. In politics it’s a different story. Anyone elevated to the executive rank is a power center of their own.

    I think that’s correct.

    But I rather suspect Trump has now learned from experience.

    I was leaning towards supporting DeSantis or Hawley for the 2024 nomination.

    After 8-8, I am now leaning towards Trump.

    I think he will now have a deep and abiding obsession with annihilating the Deep State.

    Which is what is needed.

    And I am not sure anyone else will have quite the same personal drive.

  188. @anonymous
    One good idea is that the FBI 'mole' inside Mar-a-Lago who tipped off the feds, may ultimately be Trump himself, doing some world-class trolling again

    Trump tells Kushner or somebody that he has the mother lode of criminal stuff in his safe at Mar-a-Lago

    Word rockets up the pipeline to Chicago-born Jewish DOJ chief Merrick Garland aka Garfinkel ... who rushes in with the raid order to Judge Bruce Reinhart, former lawyer for Jeffrey Epstein and now Temple Beth David synagogue trustee, Garland saying 'Just sign it, we got 'im this time!'

    FBI idiots spend 9 hours breaking into the safe, finding cocktail napkins and receipts from McDonalds - EPIC ... half of America now ready to ban the FBI, Trump an icon again, all his failings forgiven

    Merrick Garland's face and body language at the presser suggest he knows this was a real screw up - Garfinkel may be gone shortly after his 70th birthday in November

    Replies: @Ron Mexico, @fish, @New Dealer, @PhysicistDave

    anonymous[375] wrote:

    FBI idiots spend 9 hours breaking into the safe, finding cocktail napkins and receipts from McDonalds – EPIC … half of America now ready to ban the FBI, Trump an icon again, all his failings forgiven

    Merrick Garland’s face and body language at the presser suggest he knows this was a real screw up – Garfinkel may be gone shortly after his 70th birthday in November.

    Victor Davis Hanson has a column up at RCP arguing for abolishing the FBI:

    The agency has become dangerous to Americans and an existential threat to their democracy and rule of law. The FBI should be dispersing its investigatory responsibilities to other government investigative agencies that have not yet lost the public’s trust.

    Not that long ago, VDH was a typical adherent of Conservatism, Inc.

    The whole case against Trump by the Trump-haters was basically that Trump was a bully. But the 8-8 Mar-a-Lago raid (oops! — we’re not supposed to say “raid,” are we?) turns Trump into a martyr.

    The only thing that will save us from the ruling elite is that they have no understanding at all of ordinary people.

    • Replies: @Bill Jones
    @PhysicistDave

    I agree, If you've lost VDH you've pretty much lost Conservatism. His recommendation, of course, guarantees loss of public trust by the agencies to which the FBI's powers are dispersed. IRS anybody?

    Severian has a suggestion as to the raid that makes sense in Biden's America:


    It appears that FBI Director Wray and Attorney General Garland are busy pointing fingers at each other over The Raid(tm). (Joey Depends is claiming he only heard about it on the news, and for once we all believe him.) This is consistent with my interpretation that this was a “working towards the Fuhrer” moment — someone high up made some exasperated comment along the lines of “Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?!?”, and some eager beaver ran with it.
     
    https://foundingquestions.wordpress.com/2022/08/11/alt-thread-what-would-comrade-kim-do/
    , @James Speaks
    @PhysicistDave

    We're in the middle of a coup d'etat. Except that it is a slow d'etat. Started in 2014. Ramped up in 2016 with pre-emptive narrative about Trumpsky, continued until Jan 6, 2021. Except it's still going on.

    The election was stolen. Trump et al have the goods on Pelosi and her screw, I mean crew. They may hang if the right people win in 2022 and 2024. I do mean hang as in gallows on the Capitol steps.

    Pelosi's frantic cries that American Patriots are traitors and other non-sequitors is a desperate attempt to keep her neck attached to her body, and I mean literally.

    Resource depletion is turning this nation desperate; same in Europe. The last gasps of anti-white-ism (yes, this Syrian relates to white Europeans though he finds most of them to be dullards) will happen as Suzi Suburbia finds she can't feed her kids and hubby forms white only hunting parties.

    The ex-CIA spy/analyst has warned that we will have a civil war. We will.

    The FBI wanted to raid Trump's stash of evidence that will precipitate the bloody restoration of our Republic. They failed.

  189. @PhysicistDave
    @anonymous

    anonymous[375] wrote:


    FBI idiots spend 9 hours breaking into the safe, finding cocktail napkins and receipts from McDonalds – EPIC … half of America now ready to ban the FBI, Trump an icon again, all his failings forgiven

    Merrick Garland’s face and body language at the presser suggest he knows this was a real screw up – Garfinkel may be gone shortly after his 70th birthday in November.
     
    Victor Davis Hanson has a column up at RCP arguing for abolishing the FBI:

    The agency has become dangerous to Americans and an existential threat to their democracy and rule of law. The FBI should be dispersing its investigatory responsibilities to other government investigative agencies that have not yet lost the public's trust.
     
    Not that long ago, VDH was a typical adherent of Conservatism, Inc.

    The whole case against Trump by the Trump-haters was basically that Trump was a bully. But the 8-8 Mar-a-Lago raid (oops! -- we're not supposed to say "raid," are we?) turns Trump into a martyr.

    The only thing that will save us from the ruling elite is that they have no understanding at all of ordinary people.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @James Speaks

    I agree, If you’ve lost VDH you’ve pretty much lost Conservatism. His recommendation, of course, guarantees loss of public trust by the agencies to which the FBI’s powers are dispersed. IRS anybody?

    Severian has a suggestion as to the raid that makes sense in Biden’s America:

    It appears that FBI Director Wray and Attorney General Garland are busy pointing fingers at each other over The Raid(tm). (Joey Depends is claiming he only heard about it on the news, and for once we all believe him.) This is consistent with my interpretation that this was a “working towards the Fuhrer” moment — someone high up made some exasperated comment along the lines of “Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?!?”, and some eager beaver ran with it.

    https://foundingquestions.wordpress.com/2022/08/11/alt-thread-what-would-comrade-kim-do/

  190. @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    “First, they can list whatever they want (vaguely and broadly if they choose) on the warrant and then grab what they really came for.”

    That is not how a requesting for and executing a search warrant works, especially in this case with so much scrutiny. Specific items must be listed, with legal reasons as to why.

    “They were reportedly occupying the house for 9.5 hours. So it seems like they didn’t get what they actually were looking for.”

    More likely is that they spent considerable time to meticulously comb through the area and obtain the relevant materials per the warrant. Why did he have those documents in the first place when his legal team had stated they complied with past presidential procedures?

    Why doesn’t he simply dump all the dirt YOU claim he has on the Deep State and finish it once and for all?

    “Second, Trump has an issue of whether it’s classified or not. He ordered it de-classified and the Deep State hacks refused to do it.”

    More likely they followed past precedent and Trump’s request was denied That is why there are layers of protection. Again, if Trump has the goods, why not open up the floodgates? Besides, what specific evidence do you have that what Trump has in his possession, or wanted, IS indeed “dirt” on Shitlery and the FBI?

    “So he has to be careful about how and when it could be disclosed. And whether he can admit to having it.”

    Lol, no, he really doesn’t. He promised to drain the swamp beyond any means necessary. Here is his opportunity. Since when he is cautious?

    The Conservative Treehouse article does a good job of outlining what the documents may include.

    “They claim fairly persuasively that Obama’s crew 2012-2016 had opened the NSA database to Perkins Coie to do mass opposition political research through FBI “contractors.””

    Claim, yes. With speculation dressed up as evidence.

    “Taking these docs on the theory that he had declassified them seems like a move Trump would make.”

    Great! Why doesn’t Trump release them? Doesn’t he want to take out the Deep State?

    “Seems more plausible than the alternate “national archive overdue library book” theory.”

    Less plausible.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Hypnotoad666, @PhysicistDave, @Alden, @Peter D. Bredon

    Corvinus wrote:

    That is not how a requesting for and executing a search warrant works, especially in this case with so much scrutiny. Specific items must be listed, with legal reasons as to why.

    Read the warrant, Corvy. It cover everything from the Trump Presidency:

    ATTACHMENT B
    Property to be seized

    c. Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January
    20, 2017, and January 20, 2021

    Yes, such a warrant is indeed illegal:

    Amendment IV

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    And judges are required to squelch a warrant like that.

    But often they just don’t.

    If this were ever to go to trial, Trump’s lawyers could probably get all the evidence that was seized squelched.

    But it won’t go to trial: that is not really the point of the raid.

    It’s just Gestapo tactics to frighten the populace.

    My step-mom worked for a judge in Jefferson Country, Missouri some years ago. The judge just pre-signed a bunch of search warrant forms and had my step-mom give them to the cops when they wanted a warrant and the judge happened not be around.

    As illegal as all Hell?

    Yep, but it happened.

    And, yes, I know, both the judge and my step-mom could have been sent to jail. At the very least, all of the evidence gathered with those warrants was inadmissible.

    If the defendants had known…

    A lot of judges are crooks, Corvy.

    The world does not work the way you think it does.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Prester John
    @PhysicistDave

    When I was working in the litigation end of the casualty insurance claims business we would have to bring subpoenas to the assigned judge to be certified. Most of the time the judges had so much on their plate that they never even looked at the subpoenas. They would usually sign off without reading and give it to the clerk to be stamped "So Ordered."

    And yes, a LOT of judges are crooks!

  191. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The raid is obviously justifiable. We don’t worship our leaders in this country. This is not Africa yet, as much as the Trump cultists wish we had a uniformed strong man living in a gold palace.

    Replies: @Anon, @AndrewR, @Stan Adams, @The Anti-Gnostic, @SunBakedSuburb, @GeneralRipper, @PhysicistDave

    Peter Akuleyev wrote to Buzz Mohawk:

    The raid is obviously justifiable. We don’t worship our leaders in this country. This is not Africa yet…

    That is a racist comment about Africa.

    Who is your current employer?

    And is Peter Akuleyev your actual name?

    Your firing is obviously justifiable. We don’t worship racists like you in this country.

  192. @Alden
    @Ron Mexico

    Whatever they wanted to take. As was their rightful prerogative as Presidents.

    Replies: @Ron Mexico

    Harrison, Taylor and 6 others died while in office.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Ron Mexico

    When Presidents die in office; colleagues aids backers friends and family remove the documents.

    Thousands of books articles and PHD thesis’s written about Kennedy and Franklin Roosevelt who died in office. . Using documents removed and stored by colleagues backers family friends in those memorial presidential libraries.

    Replies: @Ron Mexico

  193. @George Weinbaum
    Whatever he didn't have stashed, the FBI found.
    Think about it.

    Replies: @Old Brown Fool

    That is the point. The FBI is now more capable than Stasi and KGB.

  194. @Charles Pewitt
    Some guy on the internet named Michael Knowles suggests Trump had the philosopher's stone at Mar-a-Lago.

    Van Morrison sings Philosopher's Stone:

    https://youtu.be/PghOffQ-BrI

    Replies: @Ron Mexico

    One of Morrison’s best, of which there are many.

  195. @Not Raul
    J. Edgar Hoover had personal files filled with information that he could use for blackmail.

    Trump probably does the same thing.

    Supposedly, some of Trump’s files pertain to surveillance of French government officials. That might be used to blackmail those officials, or blackmail intelligence officials who want the extent of that surveillance to remain hidden from France.

    Trump could also have files related to Iran’s nuclear program, and intelligence sources related to monitoring that program.

    He might also have files that pertain to Hunter Biden, Ukraine, or both.

    Replies: @Not Raul, @Emil Nikola Richard

    Roy Cohn was buddies with young Trump and in Hoover’s league as blackmail operations master.

    • Thanks: Not Raul
  196. @Anon
    I suspect he had nothing of significance there—what could he theoretically do with the information anyway, even if it were important?

    As with the constant use of the word “insurrection” in relation to the carnivalesque mob wandering into the Capitol on Jan 6, it seems to me that this is just further attempt to smear Trump in the media so that the general public has the sense—or “the vibe”, to use the parlance of our times—that he is unfit for the presidency.

    And I’d say it’s working. He attracts so much bad press, whether fair or unfair, I don’t think even Republicans now have the appetite for him to run. He just brings bad vibes, man.

    I’m not American so I don’t have a horse in the race, but I think DeSantis would be a better choice. He’s essentially a more diplomatic, mature, and ideologically coherent version of Trump.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @Prester John, @Purple, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia

    I think that you’ve hit on all cylinders. Though I agreed with Trump’s three legged platform of reducing our overseas military commitments, restricting immigration and rejecting “globalism” in favor of strengthening our economy, he was too much The Bull in the China Shop–the wrong person with the right message.

    DeSantis may be the better choice but…we’ll see. Whomever the GOP (or any other political party for that matter) serves up as an opposition candidate the Bolshecrat Party seeks to destroy. They are fanatics who will take no prisoners–politics is their religion.

    • Replies: @Coemgen
    @Prester John


    The Bull in the China Shop–the wrong person with the right message.
     
    The wrong person to "deliver the message" is the wilting wallflower that no-one pays attention to.

    President Donald Trump is not a wilting wallflower.

    If he was "the wrong person to deliver the message" would the DOJ, FBI, Democrat Party, megalomaniacal media, bureaucratic state, etc., give a whit about anything related to President Donald Trump?
  197. @PhysicistDave
    @Corvinus

    Corvinus wrote:


    That is not how a requesting for and executing a search warrant works, especially in this case with so much scrutiny. Specific items must be listed, with legal reasons as to why.
     
    Read the warrant, Corvy. It cover everything from the Trump Presidency:

    ATTACHMENT B
    Property to be seized
    ...
    c. Any government and/or Presidential Records created between January
    20, 2017, and January 20, 2021
     
    Yes, such a warrant is indeed illegal:

    Amendment IV

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
     
    And judges are required to squelch a warrant like that.

    But often they just don't.

    If this were ever to go to trial, Trump's lawyers could probably get all the evidence that was seized squelched.

    But it won't go to trial: that is not really the point of the raid.

    It's just Gestapo tactics to frighten the populace.

    My step-mom worked for a judge in Jefferson Country, Missouri some years ago. The judge just pre-signed a bunch of search warrant forms and had my step-mom give them to the cops when they wanted a warrant and the judge happened not be around.

    As illegal as all Hell?

    Yep, but it happened.

    And, yes, I know, both the judge and my step-mom could have been sent to jail. At the very least, all of the evidence gathered with those warrants was inadmissible.

    If the defendants had known...

    A lot of judges are crooks, Corvy.

    The world does not work the way you think it does.

    Replies: @Prester John

    When I was working in the litigation end of the casualty insurance claims business we would have to bring subpoenas to the assigned judge to be certified. Most of the time the judges had so much on their plate that they never even looked at the subpoenas. They would usually sign off without reading and give it to the clerk to be stamped “So Ordered.”

    And yes, a LOT of judges are crooks!

    • Thanks: PhysicistDave
  198. @opsimathian
    TRUMP is exactly right to plead the 5th. One can not have a reasonable give and take conversation with stark raving PSCHOPATHIC MANIACS. Especially not when those PSCHOPATHS control all the public narrative.

    Replies: @Prester John

    Jonathan Turley indicated that Trump was probably right to plead the 5th in light of all the pending additional litigation. Makes sense.

  199. @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    https://twitter.com/realDailyWire/status/1557413106799628289
    https://www.dailywire.com/news/judge-who-signed-off-on-fbi-raid-was-far-more-sympathetic-when-democrat-irs-officials-30000-emails-disappeared


    The Florida judge who reportedly signed off on the warrant permitting the FBI to raid the home of former President Trump — where they allegedly looked for classified documents — was far more sympathetic back in the day when tens of thousands of emails of Democrat Lois Lerner, then head of a division of the IRS and harsh critic of conservatives, disappeared.
     
    https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/1557116112898342918

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    Steve Sailer Retweeted:

  200. @Jack D
    @Corvinus

    This bureaucratic gobbledygook just proves my point. Yes, if you are a file clerk in the State Dept. then you must file Form 345-123A IN TRIPLICATE or else you are in big trouble. But none of this applies to the POTUS.

    To the extent that Congress has passed laws that try to regulate what goes on inside the Executive branch, they are probably unconstitutional just as the President has no authority to micro-manage the inner workings of Congress or the Supreme Court.

    Replies: @Corvinus, @Ben tillman

    Exactly right.

  201. @PhysicistDave
    @anonymous

    anonymous[375] wrote:


    FBI idiots spend 9 hours breaking into the safe, finding cocktail napkins and receipts from McDonalds – EPIC … half of America now ready to ban the FBI, Trump an icon again, all his failings forgiven

    Merrick Garland’s face and body language at the presser suggest he knows this was a real screw up – Garfinkel may be gone shortly after his 70th birthday in November.
     
    Victor Davis Hanson has a column up at RCP arguing for abolishing the FBI:

    The agency has become dangerous to Americans and an existential threat to their democracy and rule of law. The FBI should be dispersing its investigatory responsibilities to other government investigative agencies that have not yet lost the public's trust.
     
    Not that long ago, VDH was a typical adherent of Conservatism, Inc.

    The whole case against Trump by the Trump-haters was basically that Trump was a bully. But the 8-8 Mar-a-Lago raid (oops! -- we're not supposed to say "raid," are we?) turns Trump into a martyr.

    The only thing that will save us from the ruling elite is that they have no understanding at all of ordinary people.

    Replies: @Bill Jones, @James Speaks

    We’re in the middle of a coup d’etat. Except that it is a slow d’etat. Started in 2014. Ramped up in 2016 with pre-emptive narrative about Trumpsky, continued until Jan 6, 2021. Except it’s still going on.

    The election was stolen. Trump et al have the goods on Pelosi and her screw, I mean crew. They may hang if the right people win in 2022 and 2024. I do mean hang as in gallows on the Capitol steps.

    Pelosi’s frantic cries that American Patriots are traitors and other non-sequitors is a desperate attempt to keep her neck attached to her body, and I mean literally.

    Resource depletion is turning this nation desperate; same in Europe. The last gasps of anti-white-ism (yes, this Syrian relates to white Europeans though he finds most of them to be dullards) will happen as Suzi Suburbia finds she can’t feed her kids and hubby forms white only hunting parties.

    The ex-CIA spy/analyst has warned that we will have a civil war. We will.

    The FBI wanted to raid Trump’s stash of evidence that will precipitate the bloody restoration of our Republic. They failed.

  202. Gosh, when Hillary Clinton was found to have a private server with 110 classified emails, and that this server with its vulnerabilities was fully exposed to bad actors around the world, FBI Director James Comey determined that no reasonable prosecutor would bring a case against her.

    • Replies: @vinteuil
    @Anon7

    James Comey - what an evil little faggot.

    To say nothing of his creepy protege Christopher Wray.

    Replies: @Not Raul

    , @Prester John
    @Anon7

    Wonder how many deals the Clinton woman cut with reps of foreign governments on behalf of that "foundation" of theirs.

    Private server!!!!

  203. @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    “First, they can list whatever they want (vaguely and broadly if they choose) on the warrant and then grab what they really came for.”

    That is not how a requesting for and executing a search warrant works, especially in this case with so much scrutiny. Specific items must be listed, with legal reasons as to why.

    “They were reportedly occupying the house for 9.5 hours. So it seems like they didn’t get what they actually were looking for.”

    More likely is that they spent considerable time to meticulously comb through the area and obtain the relevant materials per the warrant. Why did he have those documents in the first place when his legal team had stated they complied with past presidential procedures?

    Why doesn’t he simply dump all the dirt YOU claim he has on the Deep State and finish it once and for all?

    “Second, Trump has an issue of whether it’s classified or not. He ordered it de-classified and the Deep State hacks refused to do it.”

    More likely they followed past precedent and Trump’s request was denied That is why there are layers of protection. Again, if Trump has the goods, why not open up the floodgates? Besides, what specific evidence do you have that what Trump has in his possession, or wanted, IS indeed “dirt” on Shitlery and the FBI?

    “So he has to be careful about how and when it could be disclosed. And whether he can admit to having it.”

    Lol, no, he really doesn’t. He promised to drain the swamp beyond any means necessary. Here is his opportunity. Since when he is cautious?

    The Conservative Treehouse article does a good job of outlining what the documents may include.

    “They claim fairly persuasively that Obama’s crew 2012-2016 had opened the NSA database to Perkins Coie to do mass opposition political research through FBI “contractors.””

    Claim, yes. With speculation dressed up as evidence.

    “Taking these docs on the theory that he had declassified them seems like a move Trump would make.”

    Great! Why doesn’t Trump release them? Doesn’t he want to take out the Deep State?

    “Seems more plausible than the alternate “national archive overdue library book” theory.”

    Less plausible.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Hypnotoad666, @PhysicistDave, @Alden, @Peter D. Bredon

    The search warrant specified any and all documents acquired between January 20 2017 and January 20 2020.

    That is extremely broad.

  204. @Ron Mexico
    @Alden

    Harrison, Taylor and 6 others died while in office.

    Replies: @Alden

    When Presidents die in office; colleagues aids backers friends and family remove the documents.

    Thousands of books articles and PHD thesis’s written about Kennedy and Franklin Roosevelt who died in office. . Using documents removed and stored by colleagues backers family friends in those memorial presidential libraries.

    • Replies: @Ron Mexico
    @Alden

    Presidential libraries started with FDR. Not sure this classified/ declassified issue was such a concern in, say, 1841.

  205. What did Trump really have stashed at Mar-a-Lago?

    The original draft of the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion.” Or perhaps the original Ark of the Covenant.

    Maybe both. You know how much Donald likes to collect historical documents.

    Homeland Security will keep us fully informed…

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Muggles


    You know how much Donald likes to collect historical documents.
     
    Interesting. It has often been alleged that Trump rarely reads anything and spends a lot of time watching TV.

    But not so. The man is buried deep in boxes of obscure documents, and was accustomed to transport copious reading matter to Mar-a-Lago when in office. The golf course appearances were just a body double to throw the press off the scent.

    Replies: @D. K.

  206. @Anon
    I suspect he had nothing of significance there—what could he theoretically do with the information anyway, even if it were important?

    As with the constant use of the word “insurrection” in relation to the carnivalesque mob wandering into the Capitol on Jan 6, it seems to me that this is just further attempt to smear Trump in the media so that the general public has the sense—or “the vibe”, to use the parlance of our times—that he is unfit for the presidency.

    And I’d say it’s working. He attracts so much bad press, whether fair or unfair, I don’t think even Republicans now have the appetite for him to run. He just brings bad vibes, man.

    I’m not American so I don’t have a horse in the race, but I think DeSantis would be a better choice. He’s essentially a more diplomatic, mature, and ideologically coherent version of Trump.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @Prester John, @Purple, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia

    DeSantis is the same, they controlled and manipulated all politicians, and the elites have all of them in their pockets. The only one who will not care for anything whatsoever, who has no bad habit and who truly BELIEVES and WORSHIPS GOD. That person will have God’s graces and blessings to take this country back. All the wars and chaos in the world today happening because of the sins of the people and God left them alone because they had kicked God out of their lives, their governments, their families, their schools… etc. So bis, SATAN moved in and took control of everyone, every nation and wage wars against good people, good Christians.

  207. @Chrisnonymous
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Ron Unz, don’t let them crack open your server. Take the cyanide before giving out the PW. You know I’d do the same for you.
     
    This is more serious than you think.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Relax, everybody here is behind 7 proxies. We’re not that dumb!

  208. @Intelligent Dasein
    What does Trump have stashed? My guess would be "nothing." Trumps supposed kompromat has about the same degree of actuality as Saddam Hussein's nuclear weapons program, and it has had precisely the same effect: Its hypothetical existence was used to justify an otherwise unjustifiable invasion, and its nonreality meant that he had nothing to fight back with. If Trump had kompromat, this would have been the time to use it, no?

    Trump's astonishing failure to understand the nature of the Deep State forces around him is a never-ending source of disappointment. In his mind, this is all just some kind of complicated kayfabe that he will respond to in kind, because that's how he thinks of the state. But in the Deep State's mind, Trump is the leader of an insurrectious movement, and he needs to be set back a few pegs.

    In modern America, ever since the Age of Prohibition or so, a raid by federal agents has had but one meaning: "Don't play here. You can be any kind of cult leader or backwoods survivalist or mafia kingpin you want over there, but the government reserves certain lines for itself, so don't cross them." Trump's tragedy is that he became the unlikely leader of a very legitimate and necessary populist revolt, but he thinks the crowds are cheering for him personally and not for the liberty he promised. Meanwhile, he thinks that that the Deep State isn't so much against the liberty he promised but is just gunning for him personally. He gets everything backwards.

    Replies: @Marat, @Peter D. Bredon

    ID, that’s the best summary I’ve ever read about Trump.

    His huge ego makes him effective, but also keeps him from understanding his important historical role. On the one hand, his huge hide keeps him insulated from attacks that would crush weaker egos. On the other hand, the huge ego sees himself as leader of the deep state rather than his hostile role of an outside conqueror. (That, plus he is simply not in the least theoretical, but he gets by on good instincts.)

    The gliteratti of East 69th St never gave him the time of day. Now the state-dependent, grimy DC bureaucrat class want his scalp – but they’ll have to spend a wad of “legitimacy” capital to get it. Hopefully he has changed his mind about wooing either camp and maybe read a history book or two.

  209. @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    “First, they can list whatever they want (vaguely and broadly if they choose) on the warrant and then grab what they really came for.”

    That is not how a requesting for and executing a search warrant works, especially in this case with so much scrutiny. Specific items must be listed, with legal reasons as to why.

    “They were reportedly occupying the house for 9.5 hours. So it seems like they didn’t get what they actually were looking for.”

    More likely is that they spent considerable time to meticulously comb through the area and obtain the relevant materials per the warrant. Why did he have those documents in the first place when his legal team had stated they complied with past presidential procedures?

    Why doesn’t he simply dump all the dirt YOU claim he has on the Deep State and finish it once and for all?

    “Second, Trump has an issue of whether it’s classified or not. He ordered it de-classified and the Deep State hacks refused to do it.”

    More likely they followed past precedent and Trump’s request was denied That is why there are layers of protection. Again, if Trump has the goods, why not open up the floodgates? Besides, what specific evidence do you have that what Trump has in his possession, or wanted, IS indeed “dirt” on Shitlery and the FBI?

    “So he has to be careful about how and when it could be disclosed. And whether he can admit to having it.”

    Lol, no, he really doesn’t. He promised to drain the swamp beyond any means necessary. Here is his opportunity. Since when he is cautious?

    The Conservative Treehouse article does a good job of outlining what the documents may include.

    “They claim fairly persuasively that Obama’s crew 2012-2016 had opened the NSA database to Perkins Coie to do mass opposition political research through FBI “contractors.””

    Claim, yes. With speculation dressed up as evidence.

    “Taking these docs on the theory that he had declassified them seems like a move Trump would make.”

    Great! Why doesn’t Trump release them? Doesn’t he want to take out the Deep State?

    “Seems more plausible than the alternate “national archive overdue library book” theory.”

    Less plausible.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666, @Hypnotoad666, @PhysicistDave, @Alden, @Peter D. Bredon

    Grow up. You need to stop believing that “good government” civics class bullshit.

  210. @Intelligent Dasein
    What does Trump have stashed? My guess would be "nothing." Trumps supposed kompromat has about the same degree of actuality as Saddam Hussein's nuclear weapons program, and it has had precisely the same effect: Its hypothetical existence was used to justify an otherwise unjustifiable invasion, and its nonreality meant that he had nothing to fight back with. If Trump had kompromat, this would have been the time to use it, no?

    Trump's astonishing failure to understand the nature of the Deep State forces around him is a never-ending source of disappointment. In his mind, this is all just some kind of complicated kayfabe that he will respond to in kind, because that's how he thinks of the state. But in the Deep State's mind, Trump is the leader of an insurrectious movement, and he needs to be set back a few pegs.

    In modern America, ever since the Age of Prohibition or so, a raid by federal agents has had but one meaning: "Don't play here. You can be any kind of cult leader or backwoods survivalist or mafia kingpin you want over there, but the government reserves certain lines for itself, so don't cross them." Trump's tragedy is that he became the unlikely leader of a very legitimate and necessary populist revolt, but he thinks the crowds are cheering for him personally and not for the liberty he promised. Meanwhile, he thinks that that the Deep State isn't so much against the liberty he promised but is just gunning for him personally. He gets everything backwards.

    Replies: @Marat, @Peter D. Bredon

    he thinks the crowds are cheering for him personally and not for the liberty he promised.

    Given their slavish adulation, he’s not wrong.

  211. @Anon7
    Gosh, when Hillary Clinton was found to have a private server with 110 classified emails, and that this server with its vulnerabilities was fully exposed to bad actors around the world, FBI Director James Comey determined that no reasonable prosecutor would bring a case against her.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXxN1fH-U8s

    Replies: @vinteuil, @Prester John

    James Comey – what an evil little faggot.

    To say nothing of his creepy protege Christopher Wray.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @vinteuil

    Both are Republicans, and Wray was appointed by Trump.

    Replies: @Coemgen, @PhysicistDave, @vinteuil

  212. @epebble
    @Jack D

    Anything that he has in his possession he had defacto declassified unless he stole these documents after he was no longer President.

    That can't be true. Otherwise, a President can never accidentally (or otherwise) mishandle classified information. For example, many an eyebrow was raised when Trump hosted Russian Ambassador and Foreign Minister at the Oval Office for fear that some classified information may be leaked.

    Photos of Trump's closed-door meeting with Russian officials raise eyebrows
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/photos-trump-russia-sergey-lavrov-sergey-kislyak-oval-office-meeting/

    Replies: @Alden, @Alden, @Ben tillman, @Curle

    “That can’t be true.”

    That can’t be true isn’t a legal standard.

  213. @Muggles
    What did Trump really have stashed at Mar-a-Lago?

    The original draft of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion." Or perhaps the original Ark of the Covenant.

    Maybe both. You know how much Donald likes to collect historical documents.

    Homeland Security will keep us fully informed...

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    You know how much Donald likes to collect historical documents.

    Interesting. It has often been alleged that Trump rarely reads anything and spends a lot of time watching TV.

    But not so. The man is buried deep in boxes of obscure documents, and was accustomed to transport copious reading matter to Mar-a-Lago when in office. The golf course appearances were just a body double to throw the press off the scent.

    • Replies: @D. K.
    @Jonathan Mason

    Trump famously sleeps only about four hours per night-- because that is all he apparently ever needs, not because he is sleep disordered (as, say, I am); so, even if he played a leisurely round of golf, each and every day, he would still have another sixteen hours left, each day, for his work and incidentals. As for television, his habits, as reported in the press during his presidency, seemed to be limited almost exclusively to watching the cable-news channels, as well as the networks' news shows, to see what they and the press at large were saying about him. I was surprised by how little Trump even tried to do as president-- despite my having rather low expectations, after his early hiring decisions-- but I certainly never put that down to how few hours per day or week he actually spent on the job. He did not go from working sixteen-hour days, for close to fifty years, to goldbricking, once he reached the Oval Office.

    As an independent who neither loved nor hated him, I wanted him to do those things that he promised to do about immigration: build the wall (he barely got started on it, mostly by replacing old barriers), deport all of the illegal aliens that the federal government could get its hands on (there were probably more in the country on 1/20/21 than on 1/20/17), rescind DACA "on Day One" (he quickly started talking about what great "kids" all of them were-- overlooking that some of them were, by then, thirty-somethings), and change legal immigration so that it benefited Americans as a whole, rather than just the ownership class (he ended up saying that he wanted more legal immigration than ever before!). On the things that I viscerally care about, as a native-born American son of native-born American parents, he was a gross disappointment, despite my own relatively low expectations of him as president, on his Inauguration Day.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

  214. @Intelligent Dasein
    @res


    Is no one going to challenge this typical Jonathan Mason misinformation?!
     
    I usually just scroll over posts by Jonathan Mason.

    Replies: @Bill Jones

    I use the “commenters to ignore” feature.

  215. @vinteuil
    @Anon7

    James Comey - what an evil little faggot.

    To say nothing of his creepy protege Christopher Wray.

    Replies: @Not Raul

    Both are Republicans, and Wray was appointed by Trump.

    • Replies: @Coemgen
    @Not Raul


    Both are Republicans, and Wray was appointed by Trump.
     
    Yeah, but are they certified Republicans?

    And do we have an "extended warranty" to ensure they'll remain certified Republicans for at least a certain number of years?

    QED
    , @PhysicistDave
    @Not Raul

    Not Raul wrote to vinteuil:


    Both [Wray and Comey] are Republicans, and Wray was appointed by Trump.
     
    Hey, I'll fix that for you:

    Both [Wray and Comey] are "Republicans," and Wray was [foolishly] appointed by Trump.
     
    A bit more accurate, eh?

    Replies: @Not Raul

    , @vinteuil
    @Not Raul


    Both are Republicans, and Wray was appointed by Trump.
     
    Your point being?

    The Democrats hate Trump with the heat of a a thousand suns. But the Republican establishment hates him with the heat of a thousand thousand suns.

    In his first term, he tried everything to appease them - even appointing the likes of Barr & Wray to positions where they were in position to stab him in the back.

    In his second term - and, barring assassination, he will serve a second term - will he be so naïve again?

    Time will tell.

    Replies: @D. K.

  216. @Jonathan Mason
    @Muggles


    You know how much Donald likes to collect historical documents.
     
    Interesting. It has often been alleged that Trump rarely reads anything and spends a lot of time watching TV.

    But not so. The man is buried deep in boxes of obscure documents, and was accustomed to transport copious reading matter to Mar-a-Lago when in office. The golf course appearances were just a body double to throw the press off the scent.

    Replies: @D. K.

    Trump famously sleeps only about four hours per night– because that is all he apparently ever needs, not because he is sleep disordered (as, say, I am); so, even if he played a leisurely round of golf, each and every day, he would still have another sixteen hours left, each day, for his work and incidentals. As for television, his habits, as reported in the press during his presidency, seemed to be limited almost exclusively to watching the cable-news channels, as well as the networks’ news shows, to see what they and the press at large were saying about him. I was surprised by how little Trump even tried to do as president– despite my having rather low expectations, after his early hiring decisions– but I certainly never put that down to how few hours per day or week he actually spent on the job. He did not go from working sixteen-hour days, for close to fifty years, to goldbricking, once he reached the Oval Office.

    As an independent who neither loved nor hated him, I wanted him to do those things that he promised to do about immigration: build the wall (he barely got started on it, mostly by replacing old barriers), deport all of the illegal aliens that the federal government could get its hands on (there were probably more in the country on 1/20/21 than on 1/20/17), rescind DACA “on Day One” (he quickly started talking about what great “kids” all of them were– overlooking that some of them were, by then, thirty-somethings), and change legal immigration so that it benefited Americans as a whole, rather than just the ownership class (he ended up saying that he wanted more legal immigration than ever before!). On the things that I viscerally care about, as a native-born American son of native-born American parents, he was a gross disappointment, despite my own relatively low expectations of him as president, on his Inauguration Day.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @D. K.

    I too voted for Trump first time around because he had made some promises on issues that were important to me, like reforming the healthcare insurance system and reducing the price of drugs.

    He totally failed on both of these issues where he seemed to be running well to the left of Hillary Clinton.

    As far as building the wall, I did not really care, because if you wanted to reduce the presence of illegal immigrants, you could also do that by other means.

    For example, in Britain there has been quite a scandal over recent years regarding immigrants from the West Indies who came as children, but never obtain the right paperwork, and suddenly they cannot be employed or even rent accommodation, or get health care.

    But the US does not really want to clamp down on illegal immigrants too much, at least not so much as to cause any inconvenience to employers or landlords.

    The DACA people are in a difficult situation, but it seems like if the US has a shortage of workers, and it has a ready supply of potential workers who have grown up in the US education system, it might as well make use of them, but deport those who are criminals and delinquents.

    Trump was successful in avoiding foreign wars, but on the other hand his supposedly close relationship with Putin seems to have led to nothing but war in Ukraine.

    Early in his presidency there was a lot of talk about North Korea, but that seems to have all gone away now. But is Korea still a threat to world peace?

    It seems to me that if Trump really wants to assume leadership of the Republican party and run for president again, he ought to be addressing the situation in Ukraine here and now. What can the US do to bring an end to the war in Europe?

    It seems to me that if you wanted to prevent Trump from running for president again, it would be much of more effective to challenge him on the major issues of the day, rather than to try to smear him with espionage charges.

    For example, is his sponsorship and hosting of the Saudi Arabian golf circuit something that American voters approve of, and what about the 2 billion dollars in investment money received by his son-in-law from the Saudi Arabia national investment fund?

    And if you ask Trump what his greatest achievement was, he might claim that it was the development of Covid-19 vaccines. And yet the issue of the massive profits made by certain drug companies from Covid-19 is probably not too popular with voters.

    But then again, Howard Dean's run for the presidency came to grief over a scream, and Dukakasis' over a silly TV commercial and a parolee who killed again so there is no knowing what American voters think is important when it comes to choosing somebody to represent them on the world's stage.

    Replies: @D. K.

  217. @Prester John
    @Anon

    I think that you've hit on all cylinders. Though I agreed with Trump's three legged platform of reducing our overseas military commitments, restricting immigration and rejecting "globalism" in favor of strengthening our economy, he was too much The Bull in the China Shop--the wrong person with the right message.

    DeSantis may be the better choice but...we'll see. Whomever the GOP (or any other political party for that matter) serves up as an opposition candidate the Bolshecrat Party seeks to destroy. They are fanatics who will take no prisoners--politics is their religion.

    Replies: @Coemgen

    The Bull in the China Shop–the wrong person with the right message.

    The wrong person to “deliver the message” is the wilting wallflower that no-one pays attention to.

    President Donald Trump is not a wilting wallflower.

    If he was “the wrong person to deliver the message” would the DOJ, FBI, Democrat Party, megalomaniacal media, bureaucratic state, etc., give a whit about anything related to President Donald Trump?

  218. @Not Raul
    @vinteuil

    Both are Republicans, and Wray was appointed by Trump.

    Replies: @Coemgen, @PhysicistDave, @vinteuil

    Both are Republicans, and Wray was appointed by Trump.

    Yeah, but are they certified Republicans?

    And do we have an “extended warranty” to ensure they’ll remain certified Republicans for at least a certain number of years?

    QED

  219. As president, Trump would have had access to classified documents relating to JFK’s assassination, the 9/11 false flag attack, the Jeffery Epstein scandal, and others, too numerous to mention.

    Which explains why, as a capable person who could not be black-mailed, was not supposed to have been allowed to become president, let alone run for a 2nd term.

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @Carroll price


    As president, Trump would have had access to classified documents relating to JFK’s assassination, the 9/11 false flag attack, the Jeffery Epstein scandal, and others, too numerous to mention.
     
    He should have declassified that stuff, and released it.
  220. @Corvinus
    @Jack D

    “This bureaucratic gobbledygook just proves my point.”

    It assuredly does not. There is a process by which documents are handled and declassified. That’s how it has worked in the past. There hasn’t been an issue of this magnitude before to my knowledge. It appears the Trump team had said they followed the protocols, and it was discovered they lied. That’s what Trump is known for.

    “To the extent that Congress has passed laws that try to regulate what goes on inside the Executive branch, they are probably unconstitutional just as the President has no authority to micro-manage the inner workings of Congress or the Supreme Court.“

    Do you want some Grey Poupon for your red herring?

    Replies: @PhysicistDave, @Curle

    PhysistDave is correct. Try and consult an lawyer before you express strong opinions about legal matters.

    • Agree: Dnought
    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Curle

    Are you a lawyer?

    Replies: @Curle

  221. @Alden
    @Ron Mexico

    When Presidents die in office; colleagues aids backers friends and family remove the documents.

    Thousands of books articles and PHD thesis’s written about Kennedy and Franklin Roosevelt who died in office. . Using documents removed and stored by colleagues backers family friends in those memorial presidential libraries.

    Replies: @Ron Mexico

    Presidential libraries started with FDR. Not sure this classified/ declassified issue was such a concern in, say, 1841.

  222. @Not Raul
    @vinteuil

    Both are Republicans, and Wray was appointed by Trump.

    Replies: @Coemgen, @PhysicistDave, @vinteuil

    Not Raul wrote to vinteuil:

    Both [Wray and Comey] are Republicans, and Wray was appointed by Trump.

    Hey, I’ll fix that for you:

    Both [Wray and Comey] are “Republicans,” and Wray was [foolishly] appointed by Trump.

    A bit more accurate, eh?

    • Replies: @Not Raul
    @PhysicistDave

    A lot of Trump’s HR decisions were foolish.

    He hired Bolton, McMaster, John Kelly, Mark Esper, Elaine Chao, etc.

    He just kept screwing up.

    Replies: @BB753

  223. @PhysicistDave
    @Not Raul

    Not Raul wrote to vinteuil:


    Both [Wray and Comey] are Republicans, and Wray was appointed by Trump.
     
    Hey, I'll fix that for you:

    Both [Wray and Comey] are "Republicans," and Wray was [foolishly] appointed by Trump.
     
    A bit more accurate, eh?

    Replies: @Not Raul

    A lot of Trump’s HR decisions were foolish.

    He hired Bolton, McMaster, John Kelly, Mark Esper, Elaine Chao, etc.

    He just kept screwing up.

    • Agree: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @BB753
    @Not Raul

    Not to mention his precious little daughter Ivanka and her demonic husband Kushner. Backstabbers the both of them.
    And Barr, Pence, etc.

  224. @Carroll price
    As president, Trump would have had access to classified documents relating to JFK's assassination, the 9/11 false flag attack, the Jeffery Epstein scandal, and others, too numerous to mention.

    Which explains why, as a capable person who could not be black-mailed, was not supposed to have been allowed to become president, let alone run for a 2nd term.

    Replies: @Not Raul

    As president, Trump would have had access to classified documents relating to JFK’s assassination, the 9/11 false flag attack, the Jeffery Epstein scandal, and others, too numerous to mention.

    He should have declassified that stuff, and released it.

  225. @Not Raul
    @PhysicistDave

    A lot of Trump’s HR decisions were foolish.

    He hired Bolton, McMaster, John Kelly, Mark Esper, Elaine Chao, etc.

    He just kept screwing up.

    Replies: @BB753

    Not to mention his precious little daughter Ivanka and her demonic husband Kushner. Backstabbers the both of them.
    And Barr, Pence, etc.

    • Agree: Not Raul
  226. @D. K.
    @Jonathan Mason

    Trump famously sleeps only about four hours per night-- because that is all he apparently ever needs, not because he is sleep disordered (as, say, I am); so, even if he played a leisurely round of golf, each and every day, he would still have another sixteen hours left, each day, for his work and incidentals. As for television, his habits, as reported in the press during his presidency, seemed to be limited almost exclusively to watching the cable-news channels, as well as the networks' news shows, to see what they and the press at large were saying about him. I was surprised by how little Trump even tried to do as president-- despite my having rather low expectations, after his early hiring decisions-- but I certainly never put that down to how few hours per day or week he actually spent on the job. He did not go from working sixteen-hour days, for close to fifty years, to goldbricking, once he reached the Oval Office.

    As an independent who neither loved nor hated him, I wanted him to do those things that he promised to do about immigration: build the wall (he barely got started on it, mostly by replacing old barriers), deport all of the illegal aliens that the federal government could get its hands on (there were probably more in the country on 1/20/21 than on 1/20/17), rescind DACA "on Day One" (he quickly started talking about what great "kids" all of them were-- overlooking that some of them were, by then, thirty-somethings), and change legal immigration so that it benefited Americans as a whole, rather than just the ownership class (he ended up saying that he wanted more legal immigration than ever before!). On the things that I viscerally care about, as a native-born American son of native-born American parents, he was a gross disappointment, despite my own relatively low expectations of him as president, on his Inauguration Day.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    I too voted for Trump first time around because he had made some promises on issues that were important to me, like reforming the healthcare insurance system and reducing the price of drugs.

    He totally failed on both of these issues where he seemed to be running well to the left of Hillary Clinton.

    As far as building the wall, I did not really care, because if you wanted to reduce the presence of illegal immigrants, you could also do that by other means.

    For example, in Britain there has been quite a scandal over recent years regarding immigrants from the West Indies who came as children, but never obtain the right paperwork, and suddenly they cannot be employed or even rent accommodation, or get health care.

    But the US does not really want to clamp down on illegal immigrants too much, at least not so much as to cause any inconvenience to employers or landlords.

    The DACA people are in a difficult situation, but it seems like if the US has a shortage of workers, and it has a ready supply of potential workers who have grown up in the US education system, it might as well make use of them, but deport those who are criminals and delinquents.

    Trump was successful in avoiding foreign wars, but on the other hand his supposedly close relationship with Putin seems to have led to nothing but war in Ukraine.

    Early in his presidency there was a lot of talk about North Korea, but that seems to have all gone away now. But is Korea still a threat to world peace?

    It seems to me that if Trump really wants to assume leadership of the Republican party and run for president again, he ought to be addressing the situation in Ukraine here and now. What can the US do to bring an end to the war in Europe?

    It seems to me that if you wanted to prevent Trump from running for president again, it would be much of more effective to challenge him on the major issues of the day, rather than to try to smear him with espionage charges.

    For example, is his sponsorship and hosting of the Saudi Arabian golf circuit something that American voters approve of, and what about the 2 billion dollars in investment money received by his son-in-law from the Saudi Arabia national investment fund?

    And if you ask Trump what his greatest achievement was, he might claim that it was the development of Covid-19 vaccines. And yet the issue of the massive profits made by certain drug companies from Covid-19 is probably not too popular with voters.

    But then again, Howard Dean’s run for the presidency came to grief over a scream, and Dukakasis’ over a silly TV commercial and a parolee who killed again so there is no knowing what American voters think is important when it comes to choosing somebody to represent them on the world’s stage.

    • Replies: @D. K.
    @Jonathan Mason

    "The DACA people are in a difficult situation, but it seems like if the US has a shortage of workers, and it has a ready supply of potential workers who have grown up in the US education system, it might as well make use of them, but deport those who are criminals and delinquents."

    There are nearly 100 million adults out of the workforce, in the United States, including over 40 million men:

    https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t16.htm

    Any illegal alien who is working on the books, by using a false identity, is a felon. Any illegal alien who is working off the books, and thereby evading multiple taxes at the federal, state and, often, local levels, is a felon. Any illegal-alien male who has failed to register with Selective Service, while residing illegally in the United States between the ages of 18 and 35, is a felon.

  227. @Spud Boy
    @Corvinus

    "...because there is incriminating evidence of past crimes."

    Does anyone believe Trump possessed documents for which there wasn't another copy somewhere else in the government?

    And who uses paper documents anyway? I stopped using paper 10 years ago.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    And who uses paper documents anyway? I stopped using paper 10 years ago.

    And did you throw away your passport?

    I am sure that some fields of endeavor and business that no longer use paper at all, but in others paper remains.

    For example in the medical business, although there are computerized medical records, paper is still used a lot and is actually easier and quicker, particularly since computerized systems are prone to complete shutdowns. In the medical field faxes are also used a great deal, because they are regarded as much safer from the point of view of confidentiality than emails, for example when sending prescriptions to pharmacies.

    In the legal profession also, it is still preferred to serve actual papers on people, rather than to serve them with emails.

    Evidently in the White House it is still the practice to have memos and briefings on paper. Do Trump and Biden even know how to operate a computer, other than to dictate Tweets?

  228. @PhysicistDave
    @Corvinus

    Corvinus wrote to Jack D:


    [Jack] “This bureaucratic gobbledygook just proves my point.”

    [Corvy] It assuredly does not. There is a process by which documents are handled and declassified.
     
    As usual, Corvy, you are utterly ignorant of what you are talking about.

    I did technical work for the US Intelligence Community back in the '80s and '90s.

    Unlike you, I actually know quite a lot about the classification system.

    For example, the really hot material, the kind of stuff that would allow enemies to kill or work-around our weapons systems, is "Sensitive Compartmented Information" and is restricted to highly secure environments -- so-called "SCIFs," colloquially known as "tanks."

    Such data was not just lying around the Oval Office waiting for someone to pack it up or dispose of it.

    Again, I know a great deal about this personally from my own professional experience.

    You don't.

    Also, Presidents have the final, unilateral say on classification matters: they do not have to go through what you call "a process by which documents are... declassified."

    Investigative journalist John Solomon has a detailed report just up on his Just the News site detailing all this.

    Read it, Corvy, you might educate yourself. (On second thought: don't bother -- you're ineducable.)

    And CBSNews' Intel expert Catherine Herridge just came out with a report that hints that the Mar-a-Lago raid may have been an attempt by DoJ to regain control of the documents that Trump declassified on the "Crossfire Hurricane" attempted coup against his Presidency.

    Her key summary:

    Then President #Trump issued this memorandum 1/19/2021 on declassification FBI Crossfire Hurricane records. Circulated to AG, DNI, CIA. May now be relevant once full holdings from Monday search at Mar-a-Largo catalogued.
     
    This is gonna be a lot bigger than Watergate or, to go back in history, the Dreyfus Affair.

    Hopefully, it will result in finally carrying out JFK's desire to smash the Deep State into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds.

    Again, Corvy, I have a great deal of professional knowledge from having worked for a number of years for the US Intelligence Community. You don't.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “Read the warrant, Corvy. It cover everything from the Trump Presidency”

    Of course it dies. There’s no surprise there. What matters is that it specified what types of documents he was prohibited from having in his possession at his residence as a former President.

    “Yes, such a warrant is indeed illegal: If this were ever to go to trial, Trump’s lawyers could probably get all the evidence that was seized squelched.”

    Says who? You haven’t even made a legal argument.

    “My step-mom worked for a judge in Jefferson Country, Missouri some years ago. The judge just pre-signed a bunch of search warrant forms and had my step-mom give them to the cops when they wanted a warrant and the judge happened not be around.”

    Pics, or it never happened—Steve Sailer

    Listen, your anecdote is not smoking gun evidence that every judge or most judges mishandle search warrants. You would have to demonstrate proof in each and every case rather than make this blanket statement.

    “ I did technical work for the US Intelligence Community back in the ’80s and ’90s.
    Unlike you, I actually know quite a lot about the classification system.”

    Appeal to (alleged) authority. Anyone can make that claim on the Internet. You are simply providing YOUR opinion on the matter.

    “Such data was not just lying around the Oval Office waiting for someone to pack it up or dispose of it.”

    That would be a strawman. This information was seemingly ordered by Trump to be taken without going through the process. Why is a former President in possession of such materials at his own house in the first place? What does he need them for?

    “Also, Presidents have the final, unilateral say on classification matters: they do not have to go through what you call “a process by which documents are… declassified.”

    Yes, a president must go through a process to declassify documents. Even Hypontoad’s source acknowledges it. Additionally, it is unlikely he held the authority to declassify some of what was potentially contained in the documents. And members of Congress also have protocols in place.

    https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp-video/mmvo146081349581

    Furthermore, a lawyer for former President Trump signed a written statement in June 2023 asserting that all material marked as classified and held in boxes in a storage area at Mr. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and club had been returned to the government.

    It also looks like one of Trump’s hand picked aides, Garrett Ziegler, posted the personal info of purported FBI agents involved in the warrant—along with links to one of their kids’ social media accounts.

    “And CBSNews’ Intel expert Catherine Herridge just came out with a report”

    Lol, it wasn’t her report, she tweeted a Trump memorandum. The problem with his position of “declassifying everything by unwritten fiat” argument is not just the absence of any contemporaneous evidence that it happened; it is that, if presidents had that kind of power, President Biden could just reclassify everything Trump declassified in one fell swoop.

    The “standing order” is simply cover for Trump regarding declassifying and reclassifying documents. Remember, the Trump team has known the contents of the search warrant since last Monday, but are only just mentioning the supposed standing order this past Friday night, the day the warrant was publicly released.

    So Trump declassifies hundreds of documents through a “standing order”on his way out because he has that authority, and then Biden, under that same alleged power, is able to reclassify them immediately. See how idiotic it gets?

    While Presidents do have wide latitude to declassify information, that power ends when their term concludes. And there are also specific federal regulations outlining a process for declassifying information. Presidents do not have complete and total control here.

    So where is the precedence for a former President to keep these exact types of records in their residence

    • Agree: Not Raul
  229. @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus

    None of us obviously knows exactly what the FBI is after, or why. So just make up whatever presumptions you want and keep believing them. But TDS has obviously impaired your ability to put two and two together.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “None of us obviously knows exactly what the FBI is after, or why.”

    Of course we know. Trump was storing documents at his residence. One of his own lawyers had indicated that all relevant materials were returned. Why would Trump still be in possession of those papers? Why does he still need them?

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Corvinus

    Why does he still need them?

    The puzzle I can't resolve is, why didn't he make copies and return the originals to NARA/FBI/DOJ etc., if he was just after the information (for fair or foul use)? A Xerox machine in the basement can do that job over a weekend. That suggests he wanted to precipitate this fallout for political purpose. Suddenly, he is no longer an irrelevant has been in the Republican party but the center of attention - king under attack.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus

    You say you have the answer, yet you still ask the questions.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  230. @Curle
    @Corvinus

    PhysistDave is correct. Try and consult an lawyer before you express strong opinions about legal matters.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    Are you a lawyer?

    • Replies: @Curle
    @Corvinus

    Every law clerk, judge, attorney, paralegal, court reporter and bailiff runs into dozens of guys like you each year thus the ubiquity of the commonplace ‘consult an attorney’ response when someone thinks an subpoena is an search warrant. These people experience first hand the negative effects of dunning-Kruger unlicensed ‘advisors’ on the poor people who encounter them and get side-tracked by their advice. These folks are lucky if time wasting and rabbit-hole exercises are the only negative outcome they experience.

    Replies: @Corvinus

  231. @Jonathan Mason
    @D. K.

    I too voted for Trump first time around because he had made some promises on issues that were important to me, like reforming the healthcare insurance system and reducing the price of drugs.

    He totally failed on both of these issues where he seemed to be running well to the left of Hillary Clinton.

    As far as building the wall, I did not really care, because if you wanted to reduce the presence of illegal immigrants, you could also do that by other means.

    For example, in Britain there has been quite a scandal over recent years regarding immigrants from the West Indies who came as children, but never obtain the right paperwork, and suddenly they cannot be employed or even rent accommodation, or get health care.

    But the US does not really want to clamp down on illegal immigrants too much, at least not so much as to cause any inconvenience to employers or landlords.

    The DACA people are in a difficult situation, but it seems like if the US has a shortage of workers, and it has a ready supply of potential workers who have grown up in the US education system, it might as well make use of them, but deport those who are criminals and delinquents.

    Trump was successful in avoiding foreign wars, but on the other hand his supposedly close relationship with Putin seems to have led to nothing but war in Ukraine.

    Early in his presidency there was a lot of talk about North Korea, but that seems to have all gone away now. But is Korea still a threat to world peace?

    It seems to me that if Trump really wants to assume leadership of the Republican party and run for president again, he ought to be addressing the situation in Ukraine here and now. What can the US do to bring an end to the war in Europe?

    It seems to me that if you wanted to prevent Trump from running for president again, it would be much of more effective to challenge him on the major issues of the day, rather than to try to smear him with espionage charges.

    For example, is his sponsorship and hosting of the Saudi Arabian golf circuit something that American voters approve of, and what about the 2 billion dollars in investment money received by his son-in-law from the Saudi Arabia national investment fund?

    And if you ask Trump what his greatest achievement was, he might claim that it was the development of Covid-19 vaccines. And yet the issue of the massive profits made by certain drug companies from Covid-19 is probably not too popular with voters.

    But then again, Howard Dean's run for the presidency came to grief over a scream, and Dukakasis' over a silly TV commercial and a parolee who killed again so there is no knowing what American voters think is important when it comes to choosing somebody to represent them on the world's stage.

    Replies: @D. K.

    “The DACA people are in a difficult situation, but it seems like if the US has a shortage of workers, and it has a ready supply of potential workers who have grown up in the US education system, it might as well make use of them, but deport those who are criminals and delinquents.”

    There are nearly 100 million adults out of the workforce, in the United States, including over 40 million men:

    https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t16.htm

    Any illegal alien who is working on the books, by using a false identity, is a felon. Any illegal alien who is working off the books, and thereby evading multiple taxes at the federal, state and, often, local levels, is a felon. Any illegal-alien male who has failed to register with Selective Service, while residing illegally in the United States between the ages of 18 and 35, is a felon.

  232. @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    "None of us obviously knows exactly what the FBI is after, or why."

    Of course we know. Trump was storing documents at his residence. One of his own lawyers had indicated that all relevant materials were returned. Why would Trump still be in possession of those papers? Why does he still need them?

    Replies: @epebble, @Hypnotoad666

    Why does he still need them?

    The puzzle I can’t resolve is, why didn’t he make copies and return the originals to NARA/FBI/DOJ etc., if he was just after the information (for fair or foul use)? A Xerox machine in the basement can do that job over a weekend. That suggests he wanted to precipitate this fallout for political purpose. Suddenly, he is no longer an irrelevant has been in the Republican party but the center of attention – king under attack.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @epebble

    “The puzzle I can’t resolve is, why didn’t he make copies and return the originals to NARA/FBI/DOJ etc., if he was just after the information (for fair or foul use)?”

    Who’s to say he didn’t?

    Of course, his toadies are rallying around the case that he is going to reveal the Deep State secrets once and for all. Ex wot, he won’t.

    So where has been this big QAnon reveal?

    Replies: @epebble

  233. @Anon
    I suspect he had nothing of significance there—what could he theoretically do with the information anyway, even if it were important?

    As with the constant use of the word “insurrection” in relation to the carnivalesque mob wandering into the Capitol on Jan 6, it seems to me that this is just further attempt to smear Trump in the media so that the general public has the sense—or “the vibe”, to use the parlance of our times—that he is unfit for the presidency.

    And I’d say it’s working. He attracts so much bad press, whether fair or unfair, I don’t think even Republicans now have the appetite for him to run. He just brings bad vibes, man.

    I’m not American so I don’t have a horse in the race, but I think DeSantis would be a better choice. He’s essentially a more diplomatic, mature, and ideologically coherent version of Trump.

    Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @Prester John, @Purple, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia

    I think DeSantis would be a better choice. He’s essentially a more diplomatic, mature, and ideologically coherent version of Trump.

    In a conflicted way, I used to think so too.

    But not now.

    I hope Trump runs, I hope he wins, and I hope he cuts a Genghis Khan like swath of destruction through the entire system.

  234. @epebble
    @Corvinus

    Why does he still need them?

    The puzzle I can't resolve is, why didn't he make copies and return the originals to NARA/FBI/DOJ etc., if he was just after the information (for fair or foul use)? A Xerox machine in the basement can do that job over a weekend. That suggests he wanted to precipitate this fallout for political purpose. Suddenly, he is no longer an irrelevant has been in the Republican party but the center of attention - king under attack.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “The puzzle I can’t resolve is, why didn’t he make copies and return the originals to NARA/FBI/DOJ etc., if he was just after the information (for fair or foul use)?”

    Who’s to say he didn’t?

    Of course, his toadies are rallying around the case that he is going to reveal the Deep State secrets once and for all. Ex wot, he won’t.

    So where has been this big QAnon reveal?

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Corvinus

    If he had returned the originals (after making copies) in response to the June Subpoena, there wouldn't be this fuss (unless a copy turned up on eBay-for-nuke-info website). I am sure NARA and FBI would have let the sleeping dog lie even if they had suspicion that Trump was busy on the copier. Now they are in a very ugly situation. If they don't indict him after announcing they found TS/SCI in his home, they would look toothless. If they indict him, it will kick up a firestorm that will play into Trump's hands. He is already sending "Nice country you've got there" messages.

    Trump sent cryptic message to Merrick Garland before warrant was unsealed: 'The country is on fire. What can I do to reduce the heat?'
    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-asked-ag-garland-fbi-raid-warrant-2022-8

    Replies: @Corvinus

  235. @Corvinus
    @epebble

    “The puzzle I can’t resolve is, why didn’t he make copies and return the originals to NARA/FBI/DOJ etc., if he was just after the information (for fair or foul use)?”

    Who’s to say he didn’t?

    Of course, his toadies are rallying around the case that he is going to reveal the Deep State secrets once and for all. Ex wot, he won’t.

    So where has been this big QAnon reveal?

    Replies: @epebble

    If he had returned the originals (after making copies) in response to the June Subpoena, there wouldn’t be this fuss (unless a copy turned up on eBay-for-nuke-info website). I am sure NARA and FBI would have let the sleeping dog lie even if they had suspicion that Trump was busy on the copier. Now they are in a very ugly situation. If they don’t indict him after announcing they found TS/SCI in his home, they would look toothless. If they indict him, it will kick up a firestorm that will play into Trump’s hands. He is already sending “Nice country you’ve got there” messages.

    Trump sent cryptic message to Merrick Garland before warrant was unsealed: ‘The country is on fire. What can I do to reduce the heat?’
    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-asked-ag-garland-fbi-raid-warrant-2022-8

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @epebble

    "If he had returned the originals (after making copies) in response to the June Subpoena, there wouldn’t be this fuss (unless a copy turned up on eBay-for-nuke-info website)."

    And how do you know this for certain?

    Again, was he even supposed to have the documents in the first place as a former president? What does he need them for?

    "I am sure NARA and FBI would have let the sleeping dog lie even if they had suspicion that Trump was busy on the copier."

    Again, how are you sure? What evidence leads you to believe that NARA and the FBI would have simply given him a pass if he merely copied them? It clearly matters what he has in his possession.

    "Now they are in a very ugly situation. If they don’t indict him after announcing they found TS/SCI in his home, they would look toothless. If they indict him, it will kick up a firestorm that will play into Trump’s hands. He is already sending “Nice country you’ve got there” messages."

    If they indict him, it's about time. Again, what does he need that sensitive material in his personal possession for?

    Replies: @epebble

  236. @Not Raul
    @vinteuil

    Both are Republicans, and Wray was appointed by Trump.

    Replies: @Coemgen, @PhysicistDave, @vinteuil

    Both are Republicans, and Wray was appointed by Trump.

    Your point being?

    The Democrats hate Trump with the heat of a a thousand suns. But the Republican establishment hates him with the heat of a thousand thousand suns.

    In his first term, he tried everything to appease them – even appointing the likes of Barr & Wray to positions where they were in position to stab him in the back.

    In his second term – and, barring assassination, he will serve a second term – will he be so naïve again?

    Time will tell.

    • Replies: @D. K.
    @vinteuil

    Four days after his being unofficially declared "President-elect" by the media-- to their collective shock and horror-- Donald Trump named Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus as his prospective Chief of Staff in the White House. It was clear to me, at that very early date (11/13/16), that Donald Trump was going to move briskly toward governing like a standard-issue "country club" Republican president, and not as the anti-Establishment insurgent that he had campaigned on being. He would maintain his harsh rhetoric-- especially against the corporate propaganda media-- but his administrative appointments and administration policies would be largely palatable to the GOPe and the Chamber of Commerce. His quick deferral to Speaker Paul Ryan's legislative agenda fairly well put an end to the keystones of the Trump campaign platform: e.g., building the wall, deporting illegals, and making legal immigration amenable to the needs of America's working-class and middle-class voters.

  237. @vinteuil
    @Not Raul


    Both are Republicans, and Wray was appointed by Trump.
     
    Your point being?

    The Democrats hate Trump with the heat of a a thousand suns. But the Republican establishment hates him with the heat of a thousand thousand suns.

    In his first term, he tried everything to appease them - even appointing the likes of Barr & Wray to positions where they were in position to stab him in the back.

    In his second term - and, barring assassination, he will serve a second term - will he be so naïve again?

    Time will tell.

    Replies: @D. K.

    Four days after his being unofficially declared “President-elect” by the media– to their collective shock and horror– Donald Trump named Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus as his prospective Chief of Staff in the White House. It was clear to me, at that very early date (11/13/16), that Donald Trump was going to move briskly toward governing like a standard-issue “country club” Republican president, and not as the anti-Establishment insurgent that he had campaigned on being. He would maintain his harsh rhetoric– especially against the corporate propaganda media– but his administrative appointments and administration policies would be largely palatable to the GOPe and the Chamber of Commerce. His quick deferral to Speaker Paul Ryan’s legislative agenda fairly well put an end to the keystones of the Trump campaign platform: e.g., building the wall, deporting illegals, and making legal immigration amenable to the needs of America’s working-class and middle-class voters.

    • Agree: Not Raul
  238. @Corvinus
    @Curle

    Are you a lawyer?

    Replies: @Curle

    Every law clerk, judge, attorney, paralegal, court reporter and bailiff runs into dozens of guys like you each year thus the ubiquity of the commonplace ‘consult an attorney’ response when someone thinks an subpoena is an search warrant. These people experience first hand the negative effects of dunning-Kruger unlicensed ‘advisors’ on the poor people who encounter them and get side-tracked by their advice. These folks are lucky if time wasting and rabbit-hole exercises are the only negative outcome they experience.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Curle

    Again, are you a lawyer?

    Furthermore, what does Trump need this sensitive information for? And where is the precedence for a former President to keep these exact types of records in their residence?

  239. @epebble
    @Corvinus

    If he had returned the originals (after making copies) in response to the June Subpoena, there wouldn't be this fuss (unless a copy turned up on eBay-for-nuke-info website). I am sure NARA and FBI would have let the sleeping dog lie even if they had suspicion that Trump was busy on the copier. Now they are in a very ugly situation. If they don't indict him after announcing they found TS/SCI in his home, they would look toothless. If they indict him, it will kick up a firestorm that will play into Trump's hands. He is already sending "Nice country you've got there" messages.

    Trump sent cryptic message to Merrick Garland before warrant was unsealed: 'The country is on fire. What can I do to reduce the heat?'
    https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-asked-ag-garland-fbi-raid-warrant-2022-8

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “If he had returned the originals (after making copies) in response to the June Subpoena, there wouldn’t be this fuss (unless a copy turned up on eBay-for-nuke-info website).”

    And how do you know this for certain?

    Again, was he even supposed to have the documents in the first place as a former president? What does he need them for?

    “I am sure NARA and FBI would have let the sleeping dog lie even if they had suspicion that Trump was busy on the copier.”

    Again, how are you sure? What evidence leads you to believe that NARA and the FBI would have simply given him a pass if he merely copied them? It clearly matters what he has in his possession.

    “Now they are in a very ugly situation. If they don’t indict him after announcing they found TS/SCI in his home, they would look toothless. If they indict him, it will kick up a firestorm that will play into Trump’s hands. He is already sending “Nice country you’ve got there” messages.”

    If they indict him, it’s about time. Again, what does he need that sensitive material in his personal possession for?

    • Replies: @epebble
    @Corvinus

    what does he need that sensitive material in his personal possession for?

    This is rank speculation, but it is from Fox News!

    Fox News Host Floats Possibility Trump Tried to 'Sell' Classified Documents
    https://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-host-floats-possibility-trump-tried-sell-classified-documents-1733511

  240. @Curle
    @Corvinus

    Every law clerk, judge, attorney, paralegal, court reporter and bailiff runs into dozens of guys like you each year thus the ubiquity of the commonplace ‘consult an attorney’ response when someone thinks an subpoena is an search warrant. These people experience first hand the negative effects of dunning-Kruger unlicensed ‘advisors’ on the poor people who encounter them and get side-tracked by their advice. These folks are lucky if time wasting and rabbit-hole exercises are the only negative outcome they experience.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    Again, are you a lawyer?

    Furthermore, what does Trump need this sensitive information for? And where is the precedence for a former President to keep these exact types of records in their residence?

  241. “Again, are you a lawyer?”

    Corvy, one only need have greater legal knowledge than you to spot your level of ignorance and that category, more knowledge than you is both wide and deep. That’s why it would make sense for you to consult a lawyer before sounding off on legal matters. You simply don’t possess the bandwidth as you’ve established over and over again.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Curle

    You’re projecting your own intellectual inadequacies. At least try to offer a cogent refutation to Comment 232.

  242. @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    "None of us obviously knows exactly what the FBI is after, or why."

    Of course we know. Trump was storing documents at his residence. One of his own lawyers had indicated that all relevant materials were returned. Why would Trump still be in possession of those papers? Why does he still need them?

    Replies: @epebble, @Hypnotoad666

    You say you have the answer, yet you still ask the questions.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    Your deflecting again. Why does a former president need those documents when one of his own lawyers indicated any and all sensitive material Haag already been given back?

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

  243. @Corvinus
    @epebble

    "If he had returned the originals (after making copies) in response to the June Subpoena, there wouldn’t be this fuss (unless a copy turned up on eBay-for-nuke-info website)."

    And how do you know this for certain?

    Again, was he even supposed to have the documents in the first place as a former president? What does he need them for?

    "I am sure NARA and FBI would have let the sleeping dog lie even if they had suspicion that Trump was busy on the copier."

    Again, how are you sure? What evidence leads you to believe that NARA and the FBI would have simply given him a pass if he merely copied them? It clearly matters what he has in his possession.

    "Now they are in a very ugly situation. If they don’t indict him after announcing they found TS/SCI in his home, they would look toothless. If they indict him, it will kick up a firestorm that will play into Trump’s hands. He is already sending “Nice country you’ve got there” messages."

    If they indict him, it's about time. Again, what does he need that sensitive material in his personal possession for?

    Replies: @epebble

    what does he need that sensitive material in his personal possession for?

    This is rank speculation, but it is from Fox News!

    Fox News Host Floats Possibility Trump Tried to ‘Sell’ Classified Documents
    https://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-host-floats-possibility-trump-tried-sell-classified-documents-1733511

  244. @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus

    You say you have the answer, yet you still ask the questions.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    Your deflecting again. Why does a former president need those documents when one of his own lawyers indicated any and all sensitive material Haag already been given back?

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus

    I already told you, he needs them to prove how the FBI illegally spied and lied and covered it up. He de-classified these documents by a written memo of January 19, 2021. These are formerly classified, but now de-classified documents, and highly embarrassing to the FBI. The raid is designed to tie them up in legal proceedings and keep the docs hidden while continuing to attack Trump. https://theconservativetreehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Trump-declassification.jpg

    Replies: @Corvinus

  245. @Curle
    “Again, are you a lawyer?”

    Corvy, one only need have greater legal knowledge than you to spot your level of ignorance and that category, more knowledge than you is both wide and deep. That’s why it would make sense for you to consult a lawyer before sounding off on legal matters. You simply don’t possess the bandwidth as you’ve established over and over again.

    Replies: @Corvinus

    You’re projecting your own intellectual inadequacies. At least try to offer a cogent refutation to Comment 232.

  246. @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    Your deflecting again. Why does a former president need those documents when one of his own lawyers indicated any and all sensitive material Haag already been given back?

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    I already told you, he needs them to prove how the FBI illegally spied and lied and covered it up. He de-classified these documents by a written memo of January 19, 2021. These are formerly classified, but now de-classified documents, and highly embarrassing to the FBI. The raid is designed to tie them up in legal proceedings and keep the docs hidden while continuing to attack Trump.

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    "I already told you, he needs them to prove how the FBI illegally spied and lied and covered it up."

    LOL, he had four years to use his authority to expose FBI corruption. He had several of his hand picked people in key positions of the government to get those documents. We were repeatedly told by Trump, his associates, and by QANON that he was going to once and for all "drain the swamp". And suddenly now he is going to show his cards as an EX-PRESIDENT?

    Couldn't he simply provide Xerox copies to Fox News and OAN right now to demonstrate that he has the "goods" on the "Deep State"? You honestly believe he is going to soon expose everything? Or is it once not the "right place and time", and only when the moment is rope for the taking, Trump then will spill the beans?

    "He de-classified these documents by a written memo of January 19, 2021. These are formerly classified, but now de-classified documents, and highly embarrassing to the FBI. The raid is designed to tie them up in legal proceedings and keep the docs hidden while continuing to attack Trump."

    That is in clear dispute, and I offered a cogent rebuttal in Comment.232. Please respond to what I wrote.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

  247. @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus

    I already told you, he needs them to prove how the FBI illegally spied and lied and covered it up. He de-classified these documents by a written memo of January 19, 2021. These are formerly classified, but now de-classified documents, and highly embarrassing to the FBI. The raid is designed to tie them up in legal proceedings and keep the docs hidden while continuing to attack Trump. https://theconservativetreehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Trump-declassification.jpg

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “I already told you, he needs them to prove how the FBI illegally spied and lied and covered it up.”

    LOL, he had four years to use his authority to expose FBI corruption. He had several of his hand picked people in key positions of the government to get those documents. We were repeatedly told by Trump, his associates, and by QANON that he was going to once and for all “drain the swamp”. And suddenly now he is going to show his cards as an EX-PRESIDENT?

    Couldn’t he simply provide Xerox copies to Fox News and OAN right now to demonstrate that he has the “goods” on the “Deep State”? You honestly believe he is going to soon expose everything? Or is it once not the “right place and time”, and only when the moment is rope for the taking, Trump then will spill the beans?

    “He de-classified these documents by a written memo of January 19, 2021. These are formerly classified, but now de-classified documents, and highly embarrassing to the FBI. The raid is designed to tie them up in legal proceedings and keep the docs hidden while continuing to attack Trump.”

    That is in clear dispute, and I offered a cogent rebuttal in Comment.232. Please respond to what I wrote.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus

    There is nothing "cogent" in your comment 232. You just parrot the current Deep State/MSM talking point that the Deep State gets to define how and when documents are deemed classified by creating a bureaucratic "process" that allows them to veto the President's decision. This is wrong.

    The U.S. Supreme Court explained in Dep't of Navy v. Egan, 484 U.S. 518, 527 (1988): "The President, after all, is the “Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.” U.S. Const., Art. II, § 2. His authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security . . . flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the President and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant. . . . The authority to protect such information falls on the President as head of the Executive Branch and as Commander in Chief.

    If Congress can't limit the President's Constitutional authority then certainly the "norms," barriers and permission slips that the Deep State itself erects have no effect whatsoever. I gave you the January 20, 2021 memo documenting the declassification of the "Crossfire Hurricane" documents. Obviously, that's what the seized "classified" documents are about. But because you haven't read about it in the lying MSM your response is that the declassification order must be fake. That's not very cogent.

    Once the documents were declassified, the only potential impediment to public disclosure would be the privacy rights of individuals mentioned in the documents. However, Trump could overcome that by introducing them in an official court case -- which is why he filed a civil RICO lawsuit against all the Crossfire Hurricane bad actors on March 24. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21510267-22048212-0-70029

    The factual allegations of the 108-page Complaint are plainly designed to track the content of the declassified Crossfire Hurricane documents. So if you want to know what the seized documents show you can just read the lawsuit allegations. Trump could have introduced the declassified documents in the RICO case (under seal or protective order if required by the court). And he would have been able to get discovery to independently prove up the same facts from other sources. Moreover, court filings are privileged and can't be the basis of civil or criminal liability. So the civil RICO case was the perfect vehicle for disclosing these documents. The FBI/DOJ couldn't let that happen. They have to hide these documents at all costs, so they raided them. They will now use this raid and investigation of Trump as an excuse to stay the RICO case or otherwise bar the judge from allowing the documents to come into the record, even under seal.


    To review: (a) Trump had complete authority to declassify the Crossfire Hurricane documents (Navy v. Egan); (b) Trump did, in fact, issue a written memo on January 19, 2021 that declassified the Crossfire Hurricane Documents; (c) Trump had not publicly disclosed these documents; but (d) was obviously laying the ground for lawfully introducing them into the court record in his RICO action; so (e) The FBI/DOJ had a freakout about how to prevent this and the brain trust came up with the plan to raid and seize the docs to keep them out of the RICO case. (Wait and see -- the DOJ will soon intervene in the RICO case to say it must be stayed and all discovery barred until long after 2024 'cuz national security and "ongoing investigations" into Trump 'n stuff).

    In the meantime, the idiot shill media will put out fake news leaks from the usual "officials," "experts," and "people familiar with the matter" to the effect that the suppressed documents are totally important (e.g. "nuclear docs"), but totally not about FBI and Democrat misconduct.



    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Trump-declassification.jpg

    Replies: @Corvinus

  248. @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    "I already told you, he needs them to prove how the FBI illegally spied and lied and covered it up."

    LOL, he had four years to use his authority to expose FBI corruption. He had several of his hand picked people in key positions of the government to get those documents. We were repeatedly told by Trump, his associates, and by QANON that he was going to once and for all "drain the swamp". And suddenly now he is going to show his cards as an EX-PRESIDENT?

    Couldn't he simply provide Xerox copies to Fox News and OAN right now to demonstrate that he has the "goods" on the "Deep State"? You honestly believe he is going to soon expose everything? Or is it once not the "right place and time", and only when the moment is rope for the taking, Trump then will spill the beans?

    "He de-classified these documents by a written memo of January 19, 2021. These are formerly classified, but now de-classified documents, and highly embarrassing to the FBI. The raid is designed to tie them up in legal proceedings and keep the docs hidden while continuing to attack Trump."

    That is in clear dispute, and I offered a cogent rebuttal in Comment.232. Please respond to what I wrote.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    There is nothing “cogent” in your comment 232. You just parrot the current Deep State/MSM talking point that the Deep State gets to define how and when documents are deemed classified by creating a bureaucratic “process” that allows them to veto the President’s decision. This is wrong.

    The U.S. Supreme Court explained in Dep’t of Navy v. Egan, 484 U.S. 518, 527 (1988): “The President, after all, is the “Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.” U.S. Const., Art. II, § 2. His authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security . . . flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the President and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant. . . . The authority to protect such information falls on the President as head of the Executive Branch and as Commander in Chief.

    If Congress can’t limit the President’s Constitutional authority then certainly the “norms,” barriers and permission slips that the Deep State itself erects have no effect whatsoever. I gave you the January 20, 2021 memo documenting the declassification of the “Crossfire Hurricane” documents. Obviously, that’s what the seized “classified” documents are about. But because you haven’t read about it in the lying MSM your response is that the declassification order must be fake. That’s not very cogent.

    Once the documents were declassified, the only potential impediment to public disclosure would be the privacy rights of individuals mentioned in the documents. However, Trump could overcome that by introducing them in an official court case — which is why he filed a civil RICO lawsuit against all the Crossfire Hurricane bad actors on March 24. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21510267-22048212-0-70029

    The factual allegations of the 108-page Complaint are plainly designed to track the content of the declassified Crossfire Hurricane documents. So if you want to know what the seized documents show you can just read the lawsuit allegations. Trump could have introduced the declassified documents in the RICO case (under seal or protective order if required by the court). And he would have been able to get discovery to independently prove up the same facts from other sources. Moreover, court filings are privileged and can’t be the basis of civil or criminal liability. So the civil RICO case was the perfect vehicle for disclosing these documents. The FBI/DOJ couldn’t let that happen. They have to hide these documents at all costs, so they raided them. They will now use this raid and investigation of Trump as an excuse to stay the RICO case or otherwise bar the judge from allowing the documents to come into the record, even under seal.

    To review: (a) Trump had complete authority to declassify the Crossfire Hurricane documents (Navy v. Egan); (b) Trump did, in fact, issue a written memo on January 19, 2021 that declassified the Crossfire Hurricane Documents; (c) Trump had not publicly disclosed these documents; but (d) was obviously laying the ground for lawfully introducing them into the court record in his RICO action; so (e) The FBI/DOJ had a freakout about how to prevent this and the brain trust came up with the plan to raid and seize the docs to keep them out of the RICO case. (Wait and see — the DOJ will soon intervene in the RICO case to say it must be stayed and all discovery barred until long after 2024 ‘cuz national security and “ongoing investigations” into Trump ‘n stuff).

    In the meantime, the idiot shill media will put out fake news leaks from the usual “officials,” “experts,” and “people familiar with the matter” to the effect that the suppressed documents are totally important (e.g. “nuclear docs”), but totally not about FBI and Democrat misconduct.

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @Hypnotoad666

    "There is nothing “cogent” in your comment 232. You just parrot the current Deep State/MSM talking point that the Deep State gets to define how and when documents are deemed classified by creating a bureaucratic “process” that allows them to veto the President’s decision. This is wrong."

    This is where you are being a slave to your confirmation bias. No need to have process in quotations. There is a step by step procedure in place for a reason, which has existed through executive order since World War II. The executive branch has regulations laying out the process that should be followed, such as a requirement to make sure that other agencies and departments with an interest in the secret are consulted. There are also procedures for the removal of classification markings on documents.

    "The factual allegations of the 108-page Complaint are plainly designed to track the content of the declassified Crossfire Hurricane documents."

    Speculation, not fact.

    "To review: (a) Trump had complete authority to declassify the Crossfire Hurricane documents (Navy v. Egan)"

    This decision dealt with the question "Did the MSRB have statutory authority to review underlying reasons for denial of security clearance, where federal civilian employee lost his job for based on national security concerns?" In the case you cited, dealing with the authorization of a security clearance, yes, the president has authority. But the ruling was not about the executive branch's role in the declassification of documents. Furthermore, Congress may impose criminal penalties when it comes to a breach in the document classification system (confidential, secret, top secret). Again, just because you oppose the protocols "because Deep State" is NOT rational, nor a legal argument. The measures are put in place for a reason. They have been utilized countless times before by past presidents since World War II.

    The dire problem is that an EX-PRESIDENT has in his possession sensitive material when he was not supposed to have it in the first place without going through the proper established channels. Remember, a lawyer for former President Trump signed a written statement in June 2023 asserting that all material marked as classified and held in boxes in a storage area at Mr. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and club had been returned to the government. And one of Trump’s ex-aides, Garrett Ziegler, posted the personal info of purported FBI agents involved in the warrant—along with links to one of their kids’ social media accounts.

    (b) Trump did, in fact, issue a written memo on January 19, 2021 that declassified the Crossfire Hurricane Documents;

    And I already addressed why this memo is in dispute--The problem with his position of “declassifying everything by unwritten fiat” argument is not just the absence of any contemporaneous evidence that it happened; it is that, if presidents had that kind of power, President Biden could just reclassify everything Trump declassified in one fell swoop.

    The “standing order” is simply cover for Trump regarding declassifying and reclassifying documents. Remember, the Trump team has known the contents of the search warrant since last Monday--hell, the Trump family watched the search via their own security cameras according to a Trump lawyer-- but are only just mentioning the supposed standing order this past Friday night, the day the warrant was publicly released.

    So Trump declassifies hundreds of documents through a “standing order”on his way out because he has that authority, and then Biden, under that same alleged power, is able to reclassify them immediately. See how idiotic it gets?

    More importantly, while Presidents do have wide latitude to declassify information, that power ends when their term concludes.

    You also seem to think Trump has that authority to circumvent the entire process. Glenn S. Gerstell, the top lawyer for the National Security Agency from 2015 to 2020, pronounced the idea that whatever he happened to take upstairs each evening automatically became declassified — without logging what it was and notifying the agencies that used this information — “preposterous".

    "(c) Trump had not publicly disclosed these documents; but (d) was obviously laying the ground for lawfully introducing them into the court record in his RICO action; so (e) The FBI/DOJ had a freakout about how to prevent this and the brain trust came up with the plan to raid and seize the docs to keep them out of the RICO case. (Wait and see — the DOJ will soon intervene in the RICO case to say it must be stayed and all discovery barred until long after 2024 ‘cuz national security and “ongoing investigations” into Trump ‘n stuff)."

    Who is to say that he has not photocopied them? Would not one of his lawyers or top aides made sure he had that allegedly incriminating evidence in his hip pocket? Furthermore, since when does the law or privacy matter to Trump? Why would he put faith in this RICO case, considering the revamped lawsuit as of June 2022 seeks to sidestep the applicable statute of limitations. The defendants in Trump’s lawsuit have asserted statute of limitations defenses as a complete bar to many or all of the claims pressed against them. Trump lawyers have used this same argument in that Trump cannot be held accountable if he is not prosecuted in the allotted time frame.

    Again, why does he even need this RICO case in the first place to show the entire world all the dirt he allegedly has in his possession on the Deep State? Why not release it to his allies in the press? He could be an instant hero. What is he waiting for, given that Trump has skirted the law for decades in most of his business dealings?

  249. @Hypnotoad666
    @Corvinus

    There is nothing "cogent" in your comment 232. You just parrot the current Deep State/MSM talking point that the Deep State gets to define how and when documents are deemed classified by creating a bureaucratic "process" that allows them to veto the President's decision. This is wrong.

    The U.S. Supreme Court explained in Dep't of Navy v. Egan, 484 U.S. 518, 527 (1988): "The President, after all, is the “Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.” U.S. Const., Art. II, § 2. His authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security . . . flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the President and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant. . . . The authority to protect such information falls on the President as head of the Executive Branch and as Commander in Chief.

    If Congress can't limit the President's Constitutional authority then certainly the "norms," barriers and permission slips that the Deep State itself erects have no effect whatsoever. I gave you the January 20, 2021 memo documenting the declassification of the "Crossfire Hurricane" documents. Obviously, that's what the seized "classified" documents are about. But because you haven't read about it in the lying MSM your response is that the declassification order must be fake. That's not very cogent.

    Once the documents were declassified, the only potential impediment to public disclosure would be the privacy rights of individuals mentioned in the documents. However, Trump could overcome that by introducing them in an official court case -- which is why he filed a civil RICO lawsuit against all the Crossfire Hurricane bad actors on March 24. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21510267-22048212-0-70029

    The factual allegations of the 108-page Complaint are plainly designed to track the content of the declassified Crossfire Hurricane documents. So if you want to know what the seized documents show you can just read the lawsuit allegations. Trump could have introduced the declassified documents in the RICO case (under seal or protective order if required by the court). And he would have been able to get discovery to independently prove up the same facts from other sources. Moreover, court filings are privileged and can't be the basis of civil or criminal liability. So the civil RICO case was the perfect vehicle for disclosing these documents. The FBI/DOJ couldn't let that happen. They have to hide these documents at all costs, so they raided them. They will now use this raid and investigation of Trump as an excuse to stay the RICO case or otherwise bar the judge from allowing the documents to come into the record, even under seal.


    To review: (a) Trump had complete authority to declassify the Crossfire Hurricane documents (Navy v. Egan); (b) Trump did, in fact, issue a written memo on January 19, 2021 that declassified the Crossfire Hurricane Documents; (c) Trump had not publicly disclosed these documents; but (d) was obviously laying the ground for lawfully introducing them into the court record in his RICO action; so (e) The FBI/DOJ had a freakout about how to prevent this and the brain trust came up with the plan to raid and seize the docs to keep them out of the RICO case. (Wait and see -- the DOJ will soon intervene in the RICO case to say it must be stayed and all discovery barred until long after 2024 'cuz national security and "ongoing investigations" into Trump 'n stuff).

    In the meantime, the idiot shill media will put out fake news leaks from the usual "officials," "experts," and "people familiar with the matter" to the effect that the suppressed documents are totally important (e.g. "nuclear docs"), but totally not about FBI and Democrat misconduct.



    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/Trump-declassification.jpg

    Replies: @Corvinus

    “There is nothing “cogent” in your comment 232. You just parrot the current Deep State/MSM talking point that the Deep State gets to define how and when documents are deemed classified by creating a bureaucratic “process” that allows them to veto the President’s decision. This is wrong.”

    This is where you are being a slave to your confirmation bias. No need to have process in quotations. There is a step by step procedure in place for a reason, which has existed through executive order since World War II. The executive branch has regulations laying out the process that should be followed, such as a requirement to make sure that other agencies and departments with an interest in the secret are consulted. There are also procedures for the removal of classification markings on documents.

    “The factual allegations of the 108-page Complaint are plainly designed to track the content of the declassified Crossfire Hurricane documents.”

    Speculation, not fact.

    “To review: (a) Trump had complete authority to declassify the Crossfire Hurricane documents (Navy v. Egan)”

    This decision dealt with the question “Did the MSRB have statutory authority to review underlying reasons for denial of security clearance, where federal civilian employee lost his job for based on national security concerns?” In the case you cited, dealing with the authorization of a security clearance, yes, the president has authority. But the ruling was not about the executive branch’s role in the declassification of documents. Furthermore, Congress may impose criminal penalties when it comes to a breach in the document classification system (confidential, secret, top secret). Again, just because you oppose the protocols “because Deep State” is NOT rational, nor a legal argument. The measures are put in place for a reason. They have been utilized countless times before by past presidents since World War II.

    The dire problem is that an EX-PRESIDENT has in his possession sensitive material when he was not supposed to have it in the first place without going through the proper established channels. Remember, a lawyer for former President Trump signed a written statement in June 2023 asserting that all material marked as classified and held in boxes in a storage area at Mr. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and club had been returned to the government. And one of Trump’s ex-aides, Garrett Ziegler, posted the personal info of purported FBI agents involved in the warrant—along with links to one of their kids’ social media accounts.

    (b) Trump did, in fact, issue a written memo on January 19, 2021 that declassified the Crossfire Hurricane Documents;

    And I already addressed why this memo is in dispute–The problem with his position of “declassifying everything by unwritten fiat” argument is not just the absence of any contemporaneous evidence that it happened; it is that, if presidents had that kind of power, President Biden could just reclassify everything Trump declassified in one fell swoop.

    The “standing order” is simply cover for Trump regarding declassifying and reclassifying documents. Remember, the Trump team has known the contents of the search warrant since last Monday–hell, the Trump family watched the search via their own security cameras according to a Trump lawyer– but are only just mentioning the supposed standing order this past Friday night, the day the warrant was publicly released.

    So Trump declassifies hundreds of documents through a “standing order”on his way out because he has that authority, and then Biden, under that same alleged power, is able to reclassify them immediately. See how idiotic it gets?

    More importantly, while Presidents do have wide latitude to declassify information, that power ends when their term concludes.

    You also seem to think Trump has that authority to circumvent the entire process. Glenn S. Gerstell, the top lawyer for the National Security Agency from 2015 to 2020, pronounced the idea that whatever he happened to take upstairs each evening automatically became declassified — without logging what it was and notifying the agencies that used this information — “preposterous”.

    “(c) Trump had not publicly disclosed these documents; but (d) was obviously laying the ground for lawfully introducing them into the court record in his RICO action; so (e) The FBI/DOJ had a freakout about how to prevent this and the brain trust came up with the plan to raid and seize the docs to keep them out of the RICO case. (Wait and see — the DOJ will soon intervene in the RICO case to say it must be stayed and all discovery barred until long after 2024 ‘cuz national security and “ongoing investigations” into Trump ‘n stuff).”

    Who is to say that he has not photocopied them? Would not one of his lawyers or top aides made sure he had that allegedly incriminating evidence in his hip pocket? Furthermore, since when does the law or privacy matter to Trump? Why would he put faith in this RICO case, considering the revamped lawsuit as of June 2022 seeks to sidestep the applicable statute of limitations. The defendants in Trump’s lawsuit have asserted statute of limitations defenses as a complete bar to many or all of the claims pressed against them. Trump lawyers have used this same argument in that Trump cannot be held accountable if he is not prosecuted in the allotted time frame.

    Again, why does he even need this RICO case in the first place to show the entire world all the dirt he allegedly has in his possession on the Deep State? Why not release it to his allies in the press? He could be an instant hero. What is he waiting for, given that Trump has skirted the law for decades in most of his business dealings?

  250. @Anon7
    Gosh, when Hillary Clinton was found to have a private server with 110 classified emails, and that this server with its vulnerabilities was fully exposed to bad actors around the world, FBI Director James Comey determined that no reasonable prosecutor would bring a case against her.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXxN1fH-U8s

    Replies: @vinteuil, @Prester John

    Wonder how many deals the Clinton woman cut with reps of foreign governments on behalf of that “foundation” of theirs.

    Private server!!!!

  251. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I mashed [AGREE] for your basic point that SHOULD be the case based on the US Constitution. A warrant signed by a judge (yeah, they found one who doesn't have the same standards otherwise) must specify a specific reason for the search - looking of this specific evidence of such-and-such a crime, etc.*

    At the level of Trump, the Deep State, Hillary, Hunter Biden, etc, there has been no rule of law for a long time. (I'm sure Trump is the least corrupt, but he is no principled Constitutionalist either.) One side tries to play by the rule-of-law while the ctrl-left doesn't give a damn about it.

    The story Hypnotoad brought up may be true, but even if Donald Trump had damning evidence of FBI corruption, would anything be done about it later, ever? I suppose if Trump wins in '24, he can try, but it won't get far using the rule-of-law. That's pretty much over with at that level.

    Even at the level of the Arbery case, we had prosecution-shopping (i.e. there shouldn't have been even an arrest), there were highly inappropriate sentences handed down**, and now double jeopardy due to the "hate crimes" stupidity that also not many here seem to have a problem with.

    Face it, in a Banana-Republican society, you will be forced to play it their way eventually. And people wonder why there have been all those "right-wing Juntas" in Latin America on a regular basis. Will it go that far here?

    .

    * This is why I hate the TSA while most others here don't seem to care about "muh Constitution". Searches are done without any specific reason. It's a violation of Amendment IV.

    ** I mean the one guy is in jail for a long time for videoing the incident. WTF??

    Replies: @International Jew, @Cloudbuster, @Curle, @Anonymous, @Travis B. Anderson

    Totally agree with your “hate crimes” observation. By definition hatred (or disregard for others’ rights/humanity) is a part of any crime (aggression) against another person. How can that be criminalized separately, if not merely to allow the national government to “get you” if your state doesn’t?

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