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What Did Jeffrey Epstein Do for His Money?
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What did Jeffrey Epstein do for his millions? From the New York Times news section today:

What Jeffrey Epstein Did to Earn $158 Million From Leon Black

Mr. Epstein specialized in aggressively pitching ways to minimize paying taxes. And not just to Mr. Black, the private equity chief executive who was his main benefactor in his later years.

By Matthew Goldstein and Steve Eder
Jan. 26, 2021

… The answer: help rich people pay less in taxes.

In the case of Mr. Black, the chief executive of Apollo Global Management, his advice could have been worth as much as $2 billion in savings, according to a law firm’s review of Mr. Black’s business dealings with Mr. Epstein. On Monday, Mr. Black announced that he would step down as Apollo’s chief executive this year after the review found he had paid Mr. Epstein $158 million over five years for his services.

Mr. Epstein’s specialty was suggesting ways for wealthy clients to use sophisticated trusts and other investment vehicles to reduce their tax liability while passing on assets to their children, according to documents reviewed by The New York Times and interviews with 11 people familiar with his work. In the process, he collected hefty fees — usually based on a cut of the anticipated tax savings.

In the years after 2008, when Mr. Epstein pleaded guilty in Florida to prostitution charges involving a teenage girl, he often advised clients on the use of grantor retained annuity trusts, or GRATs, according to three people familiar with his work. …

Jack Blum, a Washington lawyer who has led corruption investigations for several Senate committees, said he was surprised by the size of the fees Mr. Epstein’s work commanded. “You could be the best lawyer in Manhattan working on the most complicated trusts and estates and it would never come anywhere close to that kind of money,” he said.

The Dechert report conceded that the compensation that Mr. Black had paid to Mr. Epstein “far exceeded any amounts” paid to his other professional advisers. …

Mr. Epstein frequently functioned as an ideas generator who would then outsource some of the work to high-powered law firms or to his clients’ current financial and tax advisers, according to five people familiar with the arrangements.

That was how it worked when Mr. Epstein advised a technology executive on a tax matter, according to a representative of the executive who agreed to discuss the matter on the condition of anonymity. Mr. Epstein offered his help after learning that the executive — an acquaintance he once deemed not rich enough to qualify for his services — needed help reducing his taxes on a large stock grant from his employer. The executive believed Mr. Epstein was offering his services as a favor to a friend, because Mr. Epstein referred much of the work to a large law firm, which billed the executive for the assignment.

The executive and Mr. Epstein had never discussed any payment, according to the representative, so the executive was surprised when Mr. Epstein sent his own bill — for a sum that was 10 percent of the tax dollars saved. The executive initially balked but ultimately paid up to avoid a public spat with Mr. Epstein and never worked with him again.

The term whitewashing blackmail comes to mind. Paying 10% for somebody who suggests to you, “You should do a grantor retained annuity trust. Here’s a law firm who is good at it. They’ll handle the details, ” is not normally done. But paying 10% on this seemingly above-board matter to Epstein after he has blackmailable material on you seems plausible.

And from the Washington Post news section:

Ghislaine Maxwell says grand jury that indicted her was too White, seeks dismissal of sex abuse case

By Shayna Jacobs
Jan. 26, 2021 at 5:16 p.m. PST

NEW YORK — Lawyers for Ghislaine Maxwell, the wealthy socialite whose longtime relationship with pedophile Jeffrey Epstein led to her arrest on charges she recruited and groomed his victims, are seeking the case’s dismissal on grounds the grand jury chosen to indict her was too White — a move legal experts called valid even though Maxwell is not a minority.

In pretrial motions filed late Monday night, Maxwell’s legal team said the grand jury empaneled last year in suburban Westchester County was improperly seated and lacked diversity — and that Manhattan, where the case is pending in federal court and where there is a higher concentration of minorities, should have been the venue. …

Maxwell, 59, has British and French citizenship and is the daughter of late media mogul Robert Maxwell.

Ghislaine is, by nature and nurture, a Bond Villain-American.

… Vincent Southerland, executive director of the Center on Race, Inequality, and the Law at the New York University School of Law, said Maxwell’s claim is viable and could result in U.S. District Judge Alison Nathan dismissing the indictment — although prosecutors would probably have a chance to present the case again to a fresh grand jury panel, should the judge rule in Maxwell’s favor.

Under the law, juries and grand juries must represent a fair cross-section of the community where the alleged crime occurred. Challenges like the one made by Maxwell’s lawyers are fairly routine during jury selection at trial. The grand jury process is secret, but the Sixth Amendment protection still firmly applies.

“The fact that she’s a White woman raising this claim about having a grand jury pool that’s not representative of the jurisdiction where she’s being tried — while it might be jarring on its face, it’s kind of well within the bounds of the ways in which these type of claims get raised,” Southerland said.

Maxwell should not have to prove there was any intent to compose a grand jury a certain way, Southerland said, adding that, if she is successful, the ruling could open doors for claims to be brought by other, less fortunate defendants.

 
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  1. The culprit of course is the congressional committee that opened and maintained the loophole. No loopholes no K Street no Epstein.

  2. It also seems plausible that either Mossad or some spinoff agency provided payment for getting operations started. Epstein may have eventually got money from blackmail in his private account. But for such an operation to get off the ground there first needs to be some investment by people who already have money to use in launching things. The most obvious explanation would be that supporters of Israel were looking for a means of blackmail and Epstein was funded for this. Maybe there’s another explanation out there.

    • Agree: JimDandy, Calvin Hobbes
    • Replies: @Sick 'n Tired
    @Patrick McNally

    Epstein was most likely groomed and took over operational duties from some previous handler who probably aged out, yet had enough dirt on certain people to be able to introduce Epstein around and get into the right circles. Don't think that there isn't 5+ unknown younger Epstein types out there grooming and gathering intel on the next new crop of future leaders, scientists, hedge fund managers, trust fund kids, politicians, and influential people coming up thru the ranks. They just don't have the publicity yet, or are working hard to fly under the radar after seeing how it worked out for Jeffery.

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @clifford brown

  3. This is clearly lazy lying, this is a sloppy intelligence legend and not “what he did for his money.” People at that level are not this careless with their money and David Cay Johnson in Perfectly Legal talks about an entire specialization of lawyers who regularly, successfully, and legally defeat taxes — lawyers, not a guy you bumped into at the coffee shop who verbally promises he figured out on his own a way to beat the IRS but first you have to pay him more than a real lawyer. Occam’s entire cutlery set buries itself in prosititution and blackmail as a more likely income source than “Epstein’s musings about a complicated system he was not trained in.” But what do you tell people? Not that. So “tax advice.”

    • Agree: Kratoklastes
    • Replies: @Guy De Champlagne
    @J.Ross

    David Cay Johnson in Perfectly Legal talks about an entire specialization of lawyers who regularly, successfully, and legally defeat taxes

    And the lawyers at those firms that make the most money are the ones with connections and charisma that bring client's into the firm and the ideas men that come up with the insights that get fleshed out by lower paid grunts. So why is it so crazy that Epstein could do those two things outside of a law firm?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @J.Ross

  4. This must be the most Jewish story of the past few years.

    One reason it’ll quietly fade from public memory.

  5. Ex-high school teachers (Dalton prep) lacking a JD/CPA/CFP are so often consulted on tax/estate issues by billionaires.

    • LOL: Abe, Morton's toes
    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @dvorak

    "Check out this video footage...you won't be paying much tax from prison" - that's the sort of tax advice that really concentrates the mind.

    Replies: @Sean

  6. Perhaps they were funneling money from Israeli intelligence?

    Epstein had many non-Jewish relationships – Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton two of the most famous – but so far the only people I’ve heard of who actually gave any money to Epstein were Jewish – Leon Black and Les Wexner.

    It would be interesting to know two things: did Epstein have any non-Jewish clients at all, and to what degree were his Jewish clients heavy supporters of Israel or Jewish causes in general?

    • Replies: @216
    @Wilkey

    Epstein had links to Khashoggi

  7. Epstein knew who to blackmail and knew how to blackmail.

    After all, who had standing to claim these payments weren’t kickbacks for blackmail?

    The U.S. government, you say? Please. Who do you think Epstein worked for?

    • Replies: @Emblematic
    @R.G. Camara

    The Israeli government.

  8. ‘The term whitewashing blackmail comes to mind. Paying somebody 10% for somebody who suggests to you “You should do a grantor retained annuity trust. Here’s a law firm who is good at it. They’ll handle the details, ” is not normally done.,.. ‘

    Indeed. And after all, what did Jeffrey do? Pled guilty to ‘prostitution charges involving a teenage girl.’

    Perhaps a bit reprehensible, but…

    Nothing about enjoying the business of the former premier of Israel. Or Bill Clinton taking repeated private flights on the ‘Lolita Express.’ Or that private island…

    No, let’s not go into that. Ol’ Jeffrey was a tax advisor whose sex life got a tad randy. Nothing to see. Move along…

    Swine. They’re swine.

    • Agree: Peterike
  9. @Patrick McNally
    It also seems plausible that either Mossad or some spinoff agency provided payment for getting operations started. Epstein may have eventually got money from blackmail in his private account. But for such an operation to get off the ground there first needs to be some investment by people who already have money to use in launching things. The most obvious explanation would be that supporters of Israel were looking for a means of blackmail and Epstein was funded for this. Maybe there's another explanation out there.

    Replies: @Sick 'n Tired

    Epstein was most likely groomed and took over operational duties from some previous handler who probably aged out, yet had enough dirt on certain people to be able to introduce Epstein around and get into the right circles. Don’t think that there isn’t 5+ unknown younger Epstein types out there grooming and gathering intel on the next new crop of future leaders, scientists, hedge fund managers, trust fund kids, politicians, and influential people coming up thru the ranks. They just don’t have the publicity yet, or are working hard to fly under the radar after seeing how it worked out for Jeffery.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Sick 'n Tired

    We have a bingo!

    Whitney Webb has done great work on this topic, tracing Epstein’s blackmail operations all the way back to Prohibition-era (((gangsters))) Bronfman, Lansky & Rosenstiel .

    https://www.mintpressnews.com/shocking-origins-jeffrey-epstein-blackmail-roy-cohn/260621/

    This blackmail operation was later been passed down to hated Jewish (((fixer))) & Donald Trump mentor Roy Cohn, before winding up in the (((hands))) of Epstein & Maxwell. Both of whom were also Trump’s pals & introduced him to Melania.

    In case anyone is still wondering why Donald Trump got s-o-o-o close but was never q-u-i-t-e able to deliver on his promises to white voters but always did everything Israel wanted, this story might help answer that question.

    , @Anon
    @Sick 'n Tired

    We have a bingo!

    Whitney Webb has done great work on this topic, tracing Epstein’s blackmail operations all the way back to Prohibition-era (((gangsters))) Bronfman, Lansky & Rosenstiel .

    https://www.mintpressnews.com/shocking-origins-jeffrey-epstein-blackmail-roy-cohn/260621/

    This blackmail operation was later been passed down to hated Jewish (((fixer))) & Donald Trump mentor Roy Cohn, before winding up in the (((hands))) of Epstein & Maxwell. Both of whom were also Trump’s pals & introduced him to Melania.

    In case anyone is still wondering why Donald Trump got s-o-o-o close but was never q-u-i-t-e able to deliver on his promises to white voters but always did everything Israel wanted, this story might help answer that question.

    , @clifford brown
    @Sick 'n Tired

    Trump's personal lawyer, Roy Cohn, possibly ran a sexual blackmail operation for organized crime/ intelligence agencies.

  10. What, no comments on Jizzy Maxwell? OK, I’ll start. I’m not sure I understand the smug lawyer. Either the legal system is entire insane (a real possibility) or else 1. A “too White” grand jury is regarded as ipso facto bad, no matter who or what the potential defendant is (because White = bad), or 2. the smug, we don’t have to say it out loud, implication that Jews aren’t really White, so the all White jury is not a jury of her peers.

    I’d love to hear her testimony: “Dear Fellow Whites…”

  11. Epstein is Mossad. Wealthy Jewish elites supported his activities using a small part of their Wall Street/Federal Reserve profits it’s not superior business skills or IQ that generates those profits it’s ethnic nepotism. They really do take care of each other I wish the WASP’s in America would learn that lesson, too busy playing John Wayne.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Ari silver

    Don’t get me started on WASP betrayal of the White race. Quakers are the worst. There’s a theory which I believe that Israel loaned Maxwell the money to buy the Mirror newspaper group with the express purpose of looting the pension fund.selling the real estate etc and splitting the profits with Israel. He was killed because he kept too much of the money.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Ari silver, @Anonymous

  12. Anon[253] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sick 'n Tired
    @Patrick McNally

    Epstein was most likely groomed and took over operational duties from some previous handler who probably aged out, yet had enough dirt on certain people to be able to introduce Epstein around and get into the right circles. Don't think that there isn't 5+ unknown younger Epstein types out there grooming and gathering intel on the next new crop of future leaders, scientists, hedge fund managers, trust fund kids, politicians, and influential people coming up thru the ranks. They just don't have the publicity yet, or are working hard to fly under the radar after seeing how it worked out for Jeffery.

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @clifford brown

    We have a bingo!

    Whitney Webb has done great work on this topic, tracing Epstein’s blackmail operations all the way back to Prohibition-era (((gangsters))) Bronfman, Lansky & Rosenstiel .

    https://www.mintpressnews.com/shocking-origins-jeffrey-epstein-blackmail-roy-cohn/260621/

    This blackmail operation was later been passed down to hated Jewish (((fixer))) & Donald Trump mentor Roy Cohn, before winding up in the (((hands))) of Epstein & Maxwell. Both of whom were also Trump’s pals & introduced him to Melania.

    In case anyone is still wondering why Donald Trump got s-o-o-o close but was never q-u-i-t-e able to deliver on his promises to white voters but always did everything Israel wanted, this story might help answer that question.

    • Agree: LondonBob
  13. Anon[367] • Disclaimer says:

    Ghislaine Maxwell [is] seeking the case’s dismissal on grounds the grand jury chosen to indict her was too White — a move legal experts called valid even though Maxwell is not a minority.

    Blogger Tom Mahood (fascinating guy) spent 2010-2011 on the Orange County Grand Jury and wrote about it, within legal bounds:

    https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/miscellaneous-adventures/orange-county-grand-jury-service/

    He doesn’t mention race here, but …

    Low Points of Grand Jury service – Competency issues

    Random selection versus qualifications: Remember when I described the Grand Jury selection process and how applicants were selected proportionally to supervisorial districts? This seemingly fair process can have some unpleasant side effects. For cultural and demographic reasons, applications are not submitted equally from all districts. Certain districts only apply in very small numbers.

    For example, contrast a district in which 70 applications are received versus one in which perhaps only 10 applications come in. The judges strive to have six final names from each district placed in the final bingo drum for Grand Juror drawing. If you had two groups, one of which you weeded 70 applications down to 6 versus a group of 10 application cut down to 6, which group do you suppose would be the more qualified, on average? Yet when each group of 6 gets mixed in the selection drum, the odds of their selection become the same.

    Thus it’s possible to select Grand Jurors from one district that are far less qualified than jurors from another district who were already excluded in the selection process. So if an applicant lives in the right supervisorial district, they don’t have to be competent to make it onto the Grand Jury, just breathing. To be fair, efforts are made to compensate for this effect by increasing recruitment efforts in the underrepresented districts.

    There seems to be only one black, a woman, in the photo he posted.

    He also compares grand jury service to going back to high school.

    • Thanks: Rob McX
    • Replies: @Lot
    @Anon

    What California calls a grand jury is drastically different than other states and the federal government.

    Rather than convene for a short time to decide criminal indictments, it is more like a blue ribbon panel of citizens that meets and studies local government issues over the course of one year.

    Replies: @Hibernian

  14. Anon[253] • Disclaimer says:
    @Sick 'n Tired
    @Patrick McNally

    Epstein was most likely groomed and took over operational duties from some previous handler who probably aged out, yet had enough dirt on certain people to be able to introduce Epstein around and get into the right circles. Don't think that there isn't 5+ unknown younger Epstein types out there grooming and gathering intel on the next new crop of future leaders, scientists, hedge fund managers, trust fund kids, politicians, and influential people coming up thru the ranks. They just don't have the publicity yet, or are working hard to fly under the radar after seeing how it worked out for Jeffery.

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @clifford brown

    We have a bingo!

    Whitney Webb has done great work on this topic, tracing Epstein’s blackmail operations all the way back to Prohibition-era (((gangsters))) Bronfman, Lansky & Rosenstiel .

    https://www.mintpressnews.com/shocking-origins-jeffrey-epstein-blackmail-roy-cohn/260621/

    This blackmail operation was later been passed down to hated Jewish (((fixer))) & Donald Trump mentor Roy Cohn, before winding up in the (((hands))) of Epstein & Maxwell. Both of whom were also Trump’s pals & introduced him to Melania.

    In case anyone is still wondering why Donald Trump got s-o-o-o close but was never q-u-i-t-e able to deliver on his promises to white voters but always did everything Israel wanted, this story might help answer that question.

  15. What did he do for his money?

    He blackmailed people on behalf of Israel and AIPAC.

    Epstein got powerful people into compromising positions, taped them, so Epstein and the ADL/Mossad was then able to control those individuals and get them to do whatever the small hats wanted.

    It’s called a honeypot.

    Do we need to go to the urban dictionary?

  16. @Sick 'n Tired
    @Patrick McNally

    Epstein was most likely groomed and took over operational duties from some previous handler who probably aged out, yet had enough dirt on certain people to be able to introduce Epstein around and get into the right circles. Don't think that there isn't 5+ unknown younger Epstein types out there grooming and gathering intel on the next new crop of future leaders, scientists, hedge fund managers, trust fund kids, politicians, and influential people coming up thru the ranks. They just don't have the publicity yet, or are working hard to fly under the radar after seeing how it worked out for Jeffery.

    Replies: @Anon, @Anon, @clifford brown

    Trump’s personal lawyer, Roy Cohn, possibly ran a sexual blackmail operation for organized crime/ intelligence agencies.

  17. What did Jeffrey Epstein do for his millions?

    Duh. Obviously, he was a Mossad agent. The whole “financial services” thing was a front for the blackmail operation.

    Probably every dime of it was paid for with money the U.S. taxpayer gave to Israel…

  18. Epstein was running multiple honeypot operations at the behest of the Mossad. Wexner and the Bronfman family gave him his capital. End of story.

  19. Mr. Epstein’s specialty was suggesting ways for wealthy clients to use sophisticated trusts and other investment vehicles to reduce their tax liability while passing on assets to their children, according to documents reviewed by The New York Times and interviews with 11 people familiar with his work.

    Not buying it for a minute. Especially based on New York Times reporting of anonymous people “familiar with his work.”

    Tax dodging is an intricate business that requires a thorough background in U.S. Tax laws, international tax laws, and accounting. Trusts are plain vanilla commodity work. In any event, while lots of people have this expertise, but Epstein clearly did not. His background was as an okay mid-level trader at Bear Stearns. No one is going to pay hundreds of millions for the “suggestions” of a playboy dilettante. Try again, NYT.

    As to Ghislaine Maxell, Wikipedia reports the indictment against her “charged that between 1994 and 1997, she “assisted, facilitated, and contributed” to the abuse of minor girls despite knowing that one of three unnamed victims was 14 years old.” So 25 years ago she allegedly “contributed to” three “girls” (now in their forties) getting into high-end prostitution. How this isn’t barred by the statute of limitations I have no idea.

    She is no doubt a scummy human being. But the incredible disparities and politicized nature of who gets prosecuted in this country does not exactly inspire confidence in the impartial application of justice.

    Then again, depending on one’s preferred flavor of conspiracy, the prosecution is intended to either leverage her into talking, or staying silent. Place your bets.

    • Agree: Lot, Charon
    • Replies: @Alden
    @Hypnotoad666

    NYC statute of limitations law Re: child molestation might have been changed to totally end the statute of limitations for sex crimes. It’s happened in many states. Check out New York law if you’re interested.

    It will be easier to bribe some blacks Hispanics to acquit Maxwell in NYC.
    Prosecutors would not have made the charge if the old statue of limitations law was still in effect

  20. “Vincent Southerland, executive director of the Center on Race, Inequality, and the Law at the New York University School of Law, said Maxwell’s claim is viable”

    As viable as any legal tactic that’s never been used successfully.

  21. @Wilkey
    Perhaps they were funneling money from Israeli intelligence?

    Epstein had many non-Jewish relationships - Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton two of the most famous - but so far the only people I’ve heard of who actually gave any money to Epstein were Jewish - Leon Black and Les Wexner.

    It would be interesting to know two things: did Epstein have any non-Jewish clients at all, and to what degree were his Jewish clients heavy supporters of Israel or Jewish causes in general?

    Replies: @216

    Epstein had links to Khashoggi

  22. @R.G. Camara
    Epstein knew who to blackmail and knew how to blackmail.

    After all, who had standing to claim these payments weren't kickbacks for blackmail?

    The U.S. government, you say? Please. Who do you think Epstein worked for?

    Replies: @Emblematic

    The Israeli government.

  23. They should troll Maxwell by putting some Nation of Islam members and Arabs on the jury.

    • Agree: Kronos
  24. @Ari silver
    Epstein is Mossad. Wealthy Jewish elites supported his activities using a small part of their Wall Street/Federal Reserve profits it’s not superior business skills or IQ that generates those profits it’s ethnic nepotism. They really do take care of each other I wish the WASP’s in America would learn that lesson, too busy playing John Wayne.

    Replies: @Alden

    Don’t get me started on WASP betrayal of the White race. Quakers are the worst. There’s a theory which I believe that Israel loaned Maxwell the money to buy the Mirror newspaper group with the express purpose of looting the pension fund.selling the real estate etc and splitting the profits with Israel. He was killed because he kept too much of the money.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Alden

    In Evelyn Waugh novels, foreign powers buy newspapers to promote their foreign policy line. Maybe one of Maxwell's friends gave him the money to buy a newspaper group for political reasons and then was not pleased when he looted it?

    Replies: @anonymous

    , @Ari silver
    @Alden

    I like your theory, let me suggest the use of the words supposition or hypothesis instead of the word theory in your comments. By actual observation of events we are all proving your hypothesis.

    , @Anonymous
    @Alden

    A lot of Czechoslovak weapons found their way to Israel immediately after WWII. Maxwell apparently had something to do with this. Hugely important.

    The theory I heard is that it went to his head, and he tried to extort money from Israel to save his businesses. He was important, but not that important.

  25. @Hypnotoad666

    Mr. Epstein’s specialty was suggesting ways for wealthy clients to use sophisticated trusts and other investment vehicles to reduce their tax liability while passing on assets to their children, according to documents reviewed by The New York Times and interviews with 11 people familiar with his work.
     
    Not buying it for a minute. Especially based on New York Times reporting of anonymous people "familiar with his work."

    Tax dodging is an intricate business that requires a thorough background in U.S. Tax laws, international tax laws, and accounting. Trusts are plain vanilla commodity work. In any event, while lots of people have this expertise, but Epstein clearly did not. His background was as an okay mid-level trader at Bear Stearns. No one is going to pay hundreds of millions for the "suggestions" of a playboy dilettante. Try again, NYT.

    As to Ghislaine Maxell, Wikipedia reports the indictment against her "charged that between 1994 and 1997, she “assisted, facilitated, and contributed" to the abuse of minor girls despite knowing that one of three unnamed victims was 14 years old." So 25 years ago she allegedly "contributed to" three "girls" (now in their forties) getting into high-end prostitution. How this isn't barred by the statute of limitations I have no idea.

    She is no doubt a scummy human being. But the incredible disparities and politicized nature of who gets prosecuted in this country does not exactly inspire confidence in the impartial application of justice.

    Then again, depending on one's preferred flavor of conspiracy, the prosecution is intended to either leverage her into talking, or staying silent. Place your bets.

    Replies: @Alden

    NYC statute of limitations law Re: child molestation might have been changed to totally end the statute of limitations for sex crimes. It’s happened in many states. Check out New York law if you’re interested.

    It will be easier to bribe some blacks Hispanics to acquit Maxwell in NYC.
    Prosecutors would not have made the charge if the old statue of limitations law was still in effect

  26. There’s really nothing new under the sun these days when it comes to tax evasion. I think it’s just a game of odds . How much are you prepared to lose if you are caught in a bottom of the harbour scheme, against how much you stand to gain from it. Clearly he was no genius at his profession. So what were the big payoffs for? You have to wonder how deeply involved in the game was his mentor though. But as for his co-accused Maxwell, she looks a lot like the identity kit photo of the woman wanted in relation to the Maddie McCann case. The young daughter of English elites who went missing while holidaying in Portugal in 2007.

  27. @J.Ross
    This is clearly lazy lying, this is a sloppy intelligence legend and not "what he did for his money." People at that level are not this careless with their money and David Cay Johnson in Perfectly Legal talks about an entire specialization of lawyers who regularly, successfully, and legally defeat taxes -- lawyers, not a guy you bumped into at the coffee shop who verbally promises he figured out on his own a way to beat the IRS but first you have to pay him more than a real lawyer. Occam's entire cutlery set buries itself in prosititution and blackmail as a more likely income source than "Epstein's musings about a complicated system he was not trained in." But what do you tell people? Not that. So "tax advice."

    Replies: @Guy De Champlagne

    David Cay Johnson in Perfectly Legal talks about an entire specialization of lawyers who regularly, successfully, and legally defeat taxes

    And the lawyers at those firms that make the most money are the ones with connections and charisma that bring client’s into the firm and the ideas men that come up with the insights that get fleshed out by lower paid grunts. So why is it so crazy that Epstein could do those two things outside of a law firm?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Guy De Champlagne

    But the rainmaking lawyers charge less than the college dropout non-lawyer Epstein supposedly charged.

    Replies: @I, Libertine

    , @J.Ross
    @Guy De Champlagne

    Only a lawyer is a lawyer. It's like how everything online is seen but you can hide in meatspace. Systems can be divided into natural and artificial. Computer code and government law are artificial systems. Because they are "fake," you have to get properly certified and work them as they are intended to be worked. Nothing else counts, nothing else can. "Real" or "natural" systems (fishing, farming, weaving, wangling money, selling hotcakes, music, etc) reward outsiders, cheating, winging it and so on because they are comprised of an accidental wholeness. Everything in law and code was put there by a person. It's like the difference between a nineteenth century novel with a thousand fully developed characters who might each have their own story versus a telegraphic message.
    It's not just the money, on dealing with law a lawyer would be preferable over a non-lawyer every single time.

  28. anonymous[400] • Disclaimer says:

    Maxwell has both British and French citizenship? Any other? How does one accomplish all that and why? Both she and Epstein were world class grifters as well as pervy sleaze. Epstein’s money probably, I surmise, came from a state funding him in a circuitous way to disguise the source. Israel is the obvious first guess but who knows, maybe even some US spook outfit. Both living the grand high life made them an alluring trap for politicians and other connected people.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @anonymous

    Ghislaine's father Robert Maxwell was the inspiration for the Bond Villain in Tomorrow Never Dies.

    Epstein was pretty small time compared to Robert Maxwell.

  29. @Anon

    Ghislaine Maxwell [is] seeking the case’s dismissal on grounds the grand jury chosen to indict her was too White — a move legal experts called valid even though Maxwell is not a minority.
     
    Blogger Tom Mahood (fascinating guy) spent 2010-2011 on the Orange County Grand Jury and wrote about it, within legal bounds:

    https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/miscellaneous-adventures/orange-county-grand-jury-service/

    He doesn't mention race here, but ...


    Low Points of Grand Jury service - Competency issues

    Random selection versus qualifications: Remember when I described the Grand Jury selection process and how applicants were selected proportionally to supervisorial districts? This seemingly fair process can have some unpleasant side effects. For cultural and demographic reasons, applications are not submitted equally from all districts. Certain districts only apply in very small numbers.

    For example, contrast a district in which 70 applications are received versus one in which perhaps only 10 applications come in. The judges strive to have six final names from each district placed in the final bingo drum for Grand Juror drawing. If you had two groups, one of which you weeded 70 applications down to 6 versus a group of 10 application cut down to 6, which group do you suppose would be the more qualified, on average? Yet when each group of 6 gets mixed in the selection drum, the odds of their selection become the same.

    Thus it’s possible to select Grand Jurors from one district that are far less qualified than jurors from another district who were already excluded in the selection process. So if an applicant lives in the right supervisorial district, they don’t have to be competent to make it onto the Grand Jury, just breathing. To be fair, efforts are made to compensate for this effect by increasing recruitment efforts in the underrepresented districts.
     

    There seems to be only one black, a woman, in the photo he posted.

    He also compares grand jury service to going back to high school.

    Replies: @Lot

    What California calls a grand jury is drastically different than other states and the federal government.

    Rather than convene for a short time to decide criminal indictments, it is more like a blue ribbon panel of citizens that meets and studies local government issues over the course of one year.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    @Lot

    That seems closer to the original concept of the Grand Jury than the ham sandwich indicting ones controlled by the DA. A panel of citizens investigating crime, not a rubber stamp for the DA, with no due process for the defendant. I had to laugh every time Michael Moriarty as Ben Stone in the very early Law and Order episodes said "As legal advisor to the Grand Jury I have to inform you...blah, blah, blah." To the credit of the show's producer, it's the only crime show I can recall that showed the Grand Jury process, and it was not just one time, although it was relatively infrequent. Perry Mason showed a preliminary hearing process in California that allowed the defendant to defend himself through his lawyer.

  30. @dvorak
    Ex-high school teachers (Dalton prep) lacking a JD/CPA/CFP are so often consulted on tax/estate issues by billionaires.

    Replies: @Rob McX

    “Check out this video footage…you won’t be paying much tax from prison” – that’s the sort of tax advice that really concentrates the mind.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Rob McX

    In 1980, four years after joining Bear Stearns, Epstein became a limited partner, the next year he was asked to leave for breaking regulations. A fellow named Hoffenberg hired Jeffrey Epstein to work at the highest level on a debt collection firm that after he left was revealed to be the largest Ponzi scheme ever at the time (before Madoff). Just like Madoff Hoffenberg needed people to help him who knew what he was doing; Epstein likely was in on it and took away a few million. Then he began to pose as an international business wizard. Stealing money from people is a lot safer and less work that blackmailing them. Epstein was already a millionaire, not in a position where he'd be willing to consider desperately dangerous crimes. When you blackmail someone, they know you are blackmailing them. Another problem would be most men are not interested in little girls, so Epstein would have wasted a lot of time on targets who would not bite .

    Blackmail works if the blackmailer is willing to release some discreditable information. However an under age prosttution ring boss would get put in prison for the rest of their life. Crucially, by premeditatedly procuring under age girls for sex Epstein would be committing a far more serious crime than the man who he would be supposedly blackmailing. Old Jeff could not release the tapes or what have you without supplying evidence against himself and ending up in prison himself. When he finally did end up in a real prison he was 66 years old.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  31. @anonymous
    Maxwell has both British and French citizenship? Any other? How does one accomplish all that and why? Both she and Epstein were world class grifters as well as pervy sleaze. Epstein's money probably, I surmise, came from a state funding him in a circuitous way to disguise the source. Israel is the obvious first guess but who knows, maybe even some US spook outfit. Both living the grand high life made them an alluring trap for politicians and other connected people.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Ghislaine’s father Robert Maxwell was the inspiration for the Bond Villain in Tomorrow Never Dies.

    Epstein was pretty small time compared to Robert Maxwell.

  32. @Guy De Champlagne
    @J.Ross

    David Cay Johnson in Perfectly Legal talks about an entire specialization of lawyers who regularly, successfully, and legally defeat taxes

    And the lawyers at those firms that make the most money are the ones with connections and charisma that bring client's into the firm and the ideas men that come up with the insights that get fleshed out by lower paid grunts. So why is it so crazy that Epstein could do those two things outside of a law firm?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @J.Ross

    But the rainmaking lawyers charge less than the college dropout non-lawyer Epstein supposedly charged.

    • Replies: @I, Libertine
    @Steve Sailer

    There are some very serious ethical strictures when it comes to splitting fees with non-lawyers. Now that this is coming to light, the law firms involved will have big splainin' to do, or big bribes to pay.

  33. @Alden
    @Ari silver

    Don’t get me started on WASP betrayal of the White race. Quakers are the worst. There’s a theory which I believe that Israel loaned Maxwell the money to buy the Mirror newspaper group with the express purpose of looting the pension fund.selling the real estate etc and splitting the profits with Israel. He was killed because he kept too much of the money.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Ari silver, @Anonymous

    In Evelyn Waugh novels, foreign powers buy newspapers to promote their foreign policy line. Maybe one of Maxwell’s friends gave him the money to buy a newspaper group for political reasons and then was not pleased when he looted it?

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    Victor Ostrovsky, author of By Way of Deception, and others, have claimed that Maxwell was killed by Mossad because he inadvisedly made some threat to blab if they didn't bail him out of his financial difficulties after all he'd done for them. He became too much of a risk.

  34. The fact is that Epstein is famous for the sex stuff, not for the financial stuff. So if there are other people making similar amounts of money organizing similar financial shenanigans who don’t also run sex rings, we don’t get to hear about it. I have a low enough opinion of our economy to believe that there are likely plenty of Epstein like figures without sex rings.

    People assume that since big businesses are so aggressive with cost cutting when it comes to their paycheck and the quality of the service that they get, that spending that goes into pockets of figures like Epstein are going to face a similar level of scrutiny. But that’s just not the way it works. Walmarts are chaotic cesspits at the retail level but executives make tens of millions a year even though historic and global comparisons show those salaries aren’t necessary.

    Culture determines what expenses do and don’t get scrutinized and the culture of of the american economic elite takes the worth of rich, charming, well connected, jewish men like Epstein as a given. Income has to go somewhere and what doesn’t goto Epstein goes to some other high earner that checks similar boxes.

  35. The term whitewashing blackmail comes to mind. Paying 10% for somebody who suggests to you, “You should do a grantor retained annuity trust. Here’s a law firm who is good at it. They’ll handle the details, ” is not normally done. But paying 10% on this seemingly above-board matter to Epstein after he has blackmailable material on you seems plausible.

    But the previous patronage relationship Epstein had with Wexner pre-dates his having any blackmail operation, indeed, Wexner set him up to do it, including his infamous New York town house that Wexner later implausibly claimed Epstein had ‘stole’ from him afterwards having a very close and chummy relationship for 3 decades with the man who stole a house from him.

    So Wexner wasn’t blackmailed to behave the same way as Leon Black. If, on the other hand, the two men were asked by somebody else to provide Epstein money, it starts to line up with the ‘belong’s to intelligence’ comments and Ghislaine Maxwell’s relationship with Epstein given her adoration of her father and his many years acting on behalf on a certain intelligence service.

  36. • Thanks: Rob McX
  37. Your “whitewashing blackmail” explanation sounds plausible.

    The mysterious aspects about Epstein, to me are:

    1) How he was caught flatfooted by the Feds. With all his highly-placed contacts, he had no idea that he’d be arrested when he landed at Teterboro?

    2) How is Ghislaine in this position? Doesn’t she have enough dirt on important people to make this go away?

    3) What percentage of the girls were unwilling participants in the enterprise?

    4) How much did the average girl make and did any have to disgorge gains?

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Dave Pinsen

    He knew the Feds could any time they wanted without gathering any more evidence because Epstein's deal was with the State of Florida, he had no immunity from a mirror Federal prosecution on almost exactly the same charges.

    Ghislaine's mother was French and she had a French passport. France does not extradite its citizens All she had to do is leave for France at any time after Epstein was arrested. Even after Epstein died she could not have been stopped from leaving on a normal commercial flight for several months . Instead she never left the US and sat waiting for months until the FBI arrested her She is now being held under the worst conditions of anyone in a US jail. It is almost like there was no enterprise, Epstein is just an embezzling con man with a taste for extremely young girls and a silly society ex lover who indulged him in the hope of marriage.

    The girls in the Miami case (Epstein's only conviction and the only one where testimony would have been tasted on oath under cross examination) were paid hundreds of dollars to go to his Florida mansion and masturbate him and do stuff with sex toys. He did once try to have penetrative normal sex with the youngest and his favorite one (14 when she started) , but stopped when she screamed no at him. The arrangement was not for actual sex but sexual massages. Later the girls (mainly Hispanic and from impoverished backgrounds) got several hundreds of thousands of dollars each in compensation as part of the deal Epstein lawyers negotiated. Not one of those girls ever said they saw or had sexual contact with any man but Epstein. Apparent connections to Donald Trump (who never visits anyone else's properties even to golf) explain why the the wildest speculation on all this became a story in the MSM.

  38. Ever since I learned some of the details of Epstein’s business life, my basic take has been: He was by nature a small-time thug who happened to win the genetic lottery and was blessed with a super-high IQ, which allowed him to run his various grifts and scams on a much, much better class of victims.

    Everything I’ve read since basically confirms that.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Mr. Blank

    One of Epstein's early career specialties was recovery of debts from financiers. I'm guessing he brought an Outer Boroughs mobster's attitude toward ways to get debtors to pay back loans, but I don't know what he did exactly that made him valuable to Wall Street big guys.

    Replies: @Sean

  39. @Mr. Blank
    Ever since I learned some of the details of Epstein’s business life, my basic take has been: He was by nature a small-time thug who happened to win the genetic lottery and was blessed with a super-high IQ, which allowed him to run his various grifts and scams on a much, much better class of victims.

    Everything I’ve read since basically confirms that.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    One of Epstein’s early career specialties was recovery of debts from financiers. I’m guessing he brought an Outer Boroughs mobster’s attitude toward ways to get debtors to pay back loans, but I don’t know what he did exactly that made him valuable to Wall Street big guys.

    • Replies: @Sean
    @Steve Sailer


    One of Epstein’s early career specialties was recovery of debts from financiers.
     
    He told a journalist he wanted to write a book about him (a red flag, publicity is the last thing such types want) that he was representing foreign governments or the deposed presidents hiding money from them, whoever paid most. The journalist saw that Epstein was actually serving legal summonses himself (unlikely for a genuine high powered businessman) and decided he was a bullshitter.


    The con man and murderer who called himself "Clark Rockefeller" claimed to be a negotiator of international debt agreements; he managed to get a job as a bond trader and married a very successful businesswomen. Rich people especially those born into money are quite trusting once you are in their circle. Epstein did people out of their money by theft or massive overcharging for doing next to nothing. Less work than blackmail. He got hired by Black on the strength of Wexner apparently being happy with his services. Leon Black's et worth is $9 billion. Yet Black paid Epstein around $158 million over a five year period from 2012 to 2017. Consider:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Black#Art_collection
    Two months after the May 2012 anonymous purchase of one of four versions of Edvard Munch's The Scream, The Wall Street Journal reported that Black had been the one who had paid $119.9 million for the pastel, the highest price ever paid for a work of art at auction as of that time.
     
    Think about that in ralation to the $158 million of payments from 2012 to 2017; they hardly sound temporally or in total what a blackmailer would try to get from someone of Black's enormous wealth. My feeling is they were not blackmail at all, more like overcharging. Black said last year that Epstein provided "'estate planning, tax and philanthropic advice" to his "family partnership and other related family entities"'. Exactly like the way Epstein ingratiated himself with Wexner and then infiltrated every aspect of Wexner's business. You would never hire a blackmailer as your business adviser and give him power of attorney because then he could steal every penny.

    There are a few problems with Epstein's putative business plan for blackmailing billionaires. First, the billionaires could simply deny it was them on the tape, or say they were drugged as part of a sophisticated shakedown operation by Epstein. In any case word would get out among rich people if Epstein was blackmailing. Weinstein and Cosby's activities were common knowledge in entertainment circles. One wonders why would a billionaire in late middle age at least need Epstein to turn on to sexually abusing young girls. Someone with those kinds of financial resources can do it for themselves, and surely already would have if they have paedo propensities. Moreover, someone capable of such offences as the person Epstein was making blackmail demands of would be capable of hiring a gang of thugs to neutralise Epstein by killing him (if Epstein was blackmailing multiple people, how on earth would ha know who) or credibly threatening to.

  40. Les Wexner and Edgar Bronfman Sr provided Epstein with all his money and houses. New Albany Ohio was a key location where a lot of dirty deals went down. A lot of international scumbags can be found in that town. Rafi Eitan used to hang out in central Ohio for some strange reason.

    • Replies: @Seneca44
    @Just a regular guy

    Never heard of New Albany so I looked on GoogleMaps. It is a suburb of Columbus and has a prominent Wexner Community Park in its west end. More than coincidence?

  41. Isn’t this at the very least unauthorized practice of law?

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @Hibernian


    Isn’t this at the very least unauthorized practice of law?
     
    Non attorneys can give advice to others about tax laws. It is public information, the laws, regulations, court cases, IRS decisions, etc.

    You can also ask for payment for advice without being a lawyer. You can even at times act as your own lawyer in court, though judges don't like it.

    Making such a charge about unauthorized legal practice stick would be difficult. It is rarely done unless someone falsely claims to be a bar admitted lawyer and charges for services.

    The more interesting issue, raised here by others, is why would you pay for generic advice when lawyers are needed to actually pursue the advice given? Trusts, corporate structures, etc.

    So on the surface there seems to be something else going on. Due to the mystery here, and Epstein's Jewish background, and Wexler's and Black's, some here assume an Israeli intelligence connection.

    This could be involved (certainly his death is yet another suspicious mystery) but other very rich people have acted oddly. Howard Hughes is a notorious example, though wasn't said to pay enormous sums for no obvious reason.

    The rise of 'conspiracy theory' here is inevitable. What is needed are actual proven facts behind these alleged conspiracies. These are absent. Blackmail seems possible also. But forensic accounting should be able to follow the money trail, if any. Not much said about that.

    Since Epstein didn't live a hidden life (was seen in public, had known abodes, etc.) blackmail seems less likely due to the fact that killing him would save a lot of money for someone. A common blackmailer's problem. And since no "hidden trove" of material has yet surfaced on said alleged victims of blackmail, one has to question that as well. What kind of big time blackmailer doesn't have a 'dead man's throttle' on the dirt he holds?

    Some things don't add up. But what does add up is equally strange.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  42. @Lot
    @Anon

    What California calls a grand jury is drastically different than other states and the federal government.

    Rather than convene for a short time to decide criminal indictments, it is more like a blue ribbon panel of citizens that meets and studies local government issues over the course of one year.

    Replies: @Hibernian

    That seems closer to the original concept of the Grand Jury than the ham sandwich indicting ones controlled by the DA. A panel of citizens investigating crime, not a rubber stamp for the DA, with no due process for the defendant. I had to laugh every time Michael Moriarty as Ben Stone in the very early Law and Order episodes said “As legal advisor to the Grand Jury I have to inform you…blah, blah, blah.” To the credit of the show’s producer, it’s the only crime show I can recall that showed the Grand Jury process, and it was not just one time, although it was relatively infrequent. Perry Mason showed a preliminary hearing process in California that allowed the defendant to defend himself through his lawyer.

  43. When did the usage change to “White”? Has Sailer´s mockery of the media for their capitalization of “Black” forced them into a capitulation of sorts?

  44. Epstein wasn’t the only man to have led a famously sybaritic lifestyle. Peter Nygard, the Canadian fashion designer was recently charged for living as an Epstein clone. Hugh Hefner turned his ‘lifestyle’ into a brand and made a fortune in doing so. At the other end of the scale were sleazy guys like Larry Flynt. Were they all always so fastidious about checking ID’s and ,to be honest, getting a fake idea wasn’t a big deal. It might not pass inspection by immigration agents or a State highway patrol officer but it would pass for getting a job as a topless dancer , model or concubine.

    What makes Epstein unusual is that he seemed to have no obvious means of support. No inherited wealth, no business with a fat cash flow like Hefner or Nygard. He wasn’t Harvey Weinstein Hollywood producer yet here he was entertaining Bill Gates, Prince Andrew, the former POTUS and PM of Israel. People with the money and connections that even if they were stupid enough to get involved would have their own security and intelligence sources to warn them off. And, lets face it, Epstein’s 16 and 17 year olds were not something that billionaires could not arrange for themselves if they were into it. Nygard, Hefner and Flynt had no problem keeping a mansion full of nubile young ladies around.

    Blackmailing mega billionaires is a high risk business. Not to be done without your own security and Epstein didn’t seem to have any. That’s the mystery.

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @MGB
    @unit472


    Blackmailing mega billionaires is a high risk business. Not to be done without your own security and Epstein didn’t seem to have any. That’s the mystery.
     
    blackmailing mega billionaires would seem to require the protection of a state security system. don't know who that might be. wexner apparently had his lawyer whacked, so if there ever did arise any friction between him and epstein, only a few would have the muscle to protect epstein.

    Hugh Hefner turned his ‘lifestyle’ into a brand and made a fortune in doing so.
     
    i had read some online material about hefner, referencing gus russo and others about the chicago mob, and if i recall correctly there were some legitimate questions about the chicago mansion being a honey trap of sorts as well. there were bunnies (jesus that sounds stupid even when typed) who had specialized knowledge, such as language skills, technical expertise, etc. taking care of politicians and the like. no hint of a black mail op, but pillow talk being vacuumed up.
    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @unit472

    Agreed on most points. As for blackmailing- I still don't know what to think about it.

    What seems plausible - at least partly- that those farts involved with Epstein's pimp-ring did it out of hubris, because of some perverted sense of self-validation. It was about "gee, I am a member of the elite, wow, look at me!".

    Also, we should differentiate between really big fishes who might have met Epstein casually & actually had nothing to do with him - unlike Clinton & Dershowitz, sleazebaggery incarnated.

  45. There are no reliable sources that would claim Epstein was a sort of financial/tax evasion wizard. Sure, there are hints, here & there, about his acumen in those areas; only- this is just an uncorroborated talk.

    I repeat- and I may be wrong, because I haven’t followed the Epstein case closely: I have not seen a body of evidence from serious sources claiming Epstein was good with nuances of tax evasion, or any other form of financial operating knowledge (except shady pimping & blackmail).

    He was not a minor league Soros, for Chrissake.

    1. Epstein as a super- pimp. In my opinion, 100% possible.

    2. Epstein as a Mossad front. In my opinion, 20% possible.

    3. Epstein as a financial wonder boy who acquired his “expertise” without serious formal learning or some kind of apprenticeship. In my opinion, 5% possible.

    4. Epstein as a science/tech junkie, fascinated with mixing & intersecting the worlds of the rich and powerful elites with weird sci-fi science types (cryonics as a cartoon immortality). In my opinion, 80% possible.

  46. I am thinking money laundering, but I accuse everyone with more money than me of money laundering. I watch too many youtube videos on the subject.

  47. @Just a regular guy
    Les Wexner and Edgar Bronfman Sr provided Epstein with all his money and houses. New Albany Ohio was a key location where a lot of dirty deals went down. A lot of international scumbags can be found in that town. Rafi Eitan used to hang out in central Ohio for some strange reason.

    Replies: @Seneca44

    Never heard of New Albany so I looked on GoogleMaps. It is a suburb of Columbus and has a prominent Wexner Community Park in its west end. More than coincidence?

  48. @Steve Sailer
    @Mr. Blank

    One of Epstein's early career specialties was recovery of debts from financiers. I'm guessing he brought an Outer Boroughs mobster's attitude toward ways to get debtors to pay back loans, but I don't know what he did exactly that made him valuable to Wall Street big guys.

    Replies: @Sean

    One of Epstein’s early career specialties was recovery of debts from financiers.

    He told a journalist he wanted to write a book about him (a red flag, publicity is the last thing such types want) that he was representing foreign governments or the deposed presidents hiding money from them, whoever paid most. The journalist saw that Epstein was actually serving legal summonses himself (unlikely for a genuine high powered businessman) and decided he was a bullshitter.

    The con man and murderer who called himself “Clark Rockefeller” claimed to be a negotiator of international debt agreements; he managed to get a job as a bond trader and married a very successful businesswomen. Rich people especially those born into money are quite trusting once you are in their circle. Epstein did people out of their money by theft or massive overcharging for doing next to nothing. Less work than blackmail. He got hired by Black on the strength of Wexner apparently being happy with his services. Leon Black’s et worth is $9 billion. Yet Black paid Epstein around $158 million over a five year period from 2012 to 2017. Consider:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Black#Art_collection
    Two months after the May 2012 anonymous purchase of one of four versions of Edvard Munch’s The Scream, The Wall Street Journal reported that Black had been the one who had paid $119.9 million for the pastel, the highest price ever paid for a work of art at auction as of that time.

    Think about that in ralation to the $158 million of payments from 2012 to 2017; they hardly sound temporally or in total what a blackmailer would try to get from someone of Black’s enormous wealth. My feeling is they were not blackmail at all, more like overcharging. Black said last year that Epstein provided “‘estate planning, tax and philanthropic advice” to his “family partnership and other related family entities”‘. Exactly like the way Epstein ingratiated himself with Wexner and then infiltrated every aspect of Wexner’s business. You would never hire a blackmailer as your business adviser and give him power of attorney because then he could steal every penny.

    There are a few problems with Epstein’s putative business plan for blackmailing billionaires. First, the billionaires could simply deny it was them on the tape, or say they were drugged as part of a sophisticated shakedown operation by Epstein. In any case word would get out among rich people if Epstein was blackmailing. Weinstein and Cosby’s activities were common knowledge in entertainment circles. One wonders why would a billionaire in late middle age at least need Epstein to turn on to sexually abusing young girls. Someone with those kinds of financial resources can do it for themselves, and surely already would have if they have paedo propensities. Moreover, someone capable of such offences as the person Epstein was making blackmail demands of would be capable of hiring a gang of thugs to neutralise Epstein by killing him (if Epstein was blackmailing multiple people, how on earth would ha know who) or credibly threatening to.

  49. @Guy De Champlagne
    @J.Ross

    David Cay Johnson in Perfectly Legal talks about an entire specialization of lawyers who regularly, successfully, and legally defeat taxes

    And the lawyers at those firms that make the most money are the ones with connections and charisma that bring client's into the firm and the ideas men that come up with the insights that get fleshed out by lower paid grunts. So why is it so crazy that Epstein could do those two things outside of a law firm?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @J.Ross

    Only a lawyer is a lawyer. It’s like how everything online is seen but you can hide in meatspace. Systems can be divided into natural and artificial. Computer code and government law are artificial systems. Because they are “fake,” you have to get properly certified and work them as they are intended to be worked. Nothing else counts, nothing else can. “Real” or “natural” systems (fishing, farming, weaving, wangling money, selling hotcakes, music, etc) reward outsiders, cheating, winging it and so on because they are comprised of an accidental wholeness. Everything in law and code was put there by a person. It’s like the difference between a nineteenth century novel with a thousand fully developed characters who might each have their own story versus a telegraphic message.
    It’s not just the money, on dealing with law a lawyer would be preferable over a non-lawyer every single time.

  50. I’ve noticed lots of reporters referring to Epstein as a pedophile. Has there been any evidence that he ever targeted prepubescent kids? This is a weird hill to die on but I don’t consider him a pedo.

    • Replies: @I, Libertine
    @Magic Dirt Resident

    Yes, he was an ephebophile. Few even know that there's such a disctinction.

    Replies: @JMcG

  51. @Alden
    @Ari silver

    Don’t get me started on WASP betrayal of the White race. Quakers are the worst. There’s a theory which I believe that Israel loaned Maxwell the money to buy the Mirror newspaper group with the express purpose of looting the pension fund.selling the real estate etc and splitting the profits with Israel. He was killed because he kept too much of the money.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Ari silver, @Anonymous

    I like your theory, let me suggest the use of the words supposition or hypothesis instead of the word theory in your comments. By actual observation of events we are all proving your hypothesis.

  52. What Did Jeffrey Epstein Do for His Money?

    Parasitism.

    The core human problem–since settlement, the Neolithic Revolution–has been various parasites glomming onto productive people. Rulers, barbarians, criminals, bureaucrats, a plethora of assorted rent-seekers and scammers.

    Republican government in the US was a pretty reasonable poke at corralling, restraining the parasites’ ability to loot. But unfortunately we were insufficiently vigilant. The parasites … took over and our experiment collapsed. Instead of republican government we have minoritarianism and elite parasite diktat.

    • Agree: Kratoklastes
    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @AnotherDad

    This is why many people see total collapse of the social order as the only solution. With everyone scrabbling for the basics necessary to survive, there could be no surplus production to support those who contribute nothing useful.

    But under these circumstances, there could be no cultural or scientific progress, which requires people whose work provides no immediate benefit to society. The solution would be to learn from past mistakes and build a saner society out of the ruins of the old one. This scenario may prove to be the only hope for whites.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

  53. @AnotherDad

    What Did Jeffrey Epstein Do for His Money?
     
    Parasitism.

    The core human problem--since settlement, the Neolithic Revolution--has been various parasites glomming onto productive people. Rulers, barbarians, criminals, bureaucrats, a plethora of assorted rent-seekers and scammers.

    Republican government in the US was a pretty reasonable poke at corralling, restraining the parasites' ability to loot. But unfortunately we were insufficiently vigilant. The parasites ... took over and our experiment collapsed. Instead of republican government we have minoritarianism and elite parasite diktat.

    Replies: @Rob McX

    This is why many people see total collapse of the social order as the only solution. With everyone scrabbling for the basics necessary to survive, there could be no surplus production to support those who contribute nothing useful.

    But under these circumstances, there could be no cultural or scientific progress, which requires people whose work provides no immediate benefit to society. The solution would be to learn from past mistakes and build a saner society out of the ruins of the old one. This scenario may prove to be the only hope for whites.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Rob McX


    But under these circumstances, there could be no cultural or scientific progress,
     
    Currently, there is no cultural progress and very little scientific progress, but plenty of regress in both. So no loss to fear there.
  54. “Under the law, juries and grand juries must represent a fair cross-section of the community where the alleged crime occurred. ”

    As I understand it the alleged “basket of crimes” were inter-local, interstate and transnational.

    Indict the bitch in Nuremberg.

  55. @Hibernian
    Isn't this at the very least unauthorized practice of law?

    Replies: @Muggles

    Isn’t this at the very least unauthorized practice of law?

    Non attorneys can give advice to others about tax laws. It is public information, the laws, regulations, court cases, IRS decisions, etc.

    You can also ask for payment for advice without being a lawyer. You can even at times act as your own lawyer in court, though judges don’t like it.

    Making such a charge about unauthorized legal practice stick would be difficult. It is rarely done unless someone falsely claims to be a bar admitted lawyer and charges for services.

    The more interesting issue, raised here by others, is why would you pay for generic advice when lawyers are needed to actually pursue the advice given? Trusts, corporate structures, etc.

    So on the surface there seems to be something else going on. Due to the mystery here, and Epstein’s Jewish background, and Wexler’s and Black’s, some here assume an Israeli intelligence connection.

    This could be involved (certainly his death is yet another suspicious mystery) but other very rich people have acted oddly. Howard Hughes is a notorious example, though wasn’t said to pay enormous sums for no obvious reason.

    The rise of ‘conspiracy theory’ here is inevitable. What is needed are actual proven facts behind these alleged conspiracies. These are absent. Blackmail seems possible also. But forensic accounting should be able to follow the money trail, if any. Not much said about that.

    Since Epstein didn’t live a hidden life (was seen in public, had known abodes, etc.) blackmail seems less likely due to the fact that killing him would save a lot of money for someone. A common blackmailer’s problem. And since no “hidden trove” of material has yet surfaced on said alleged victims of blackmail, one has to question that as well. What kind of big time blackmailer doesn’t have a ‘dead man’s throttle’ on the dirt he holds?

    Some things don’t add up. But what does add up is equally strange.

    • Agree: Sean
    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    @Muggles


    other very rich people have acted oddly. Howard Hughes is a notorious example, though wasn’t said to pay enormous sums for no obvious reason.
     
    Okay, but do a lot of rich people all act oddly in the same way to the same person without some compelling underlying cause?

    And since no “hidden trove” of material has yet surfaced on said alleged victims of blackmail
     
    Oh one surfaced alright,

    https://nypost.com/2019/07/08/feds-found-vast-trove-of-nude-photos-in-jeffrey-epsteins-safe/

    then promptly went down the memory hole.
  56. Donald Trump and Epstein’s RAPE, SEXUAL MISCONDUCT, CRIMINAL SEXUAL ACTS, SEXUAL ABUSE, FORCIBLE TOUCHING, ASSAULT, BATTERY, INTENTIONAL AND RECKLESS INFLICTION OF EMOTIONAL DISTRESS, DURESS, AND FALSE IMPRISONMENT civil action. https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000158-26b6-dda3-afd8-b6fe46f40000

  57. @unit472
    Epstein wasn't the only man to have led a famously sybaritic lifestyle. Peter Nygard, the Canadian fashion designer was recently charged for living as an Epstein clone. Hugh Hefner turned his 'lifestyle' into a brand and made a fortune in doing so. At the other end of the scale were sleazy guys like Larry Flynt. Were they all always so fastidious about checking ID's and ,to be honest, getting a fake idea wasn't a big deal. It might not pass inspection by immigration agents or a State highway patrol officer but it would pass for getting a job as a topless dancer , model or concubine.

    What makes Epstein unusual is that he seemed to have no obvious means of support. No inherited wealth, no business with a fat cash flow like Hefner or Nygard. He wasn't Harvey Weinstein Hollywood producer yet here he was entertaining Bill Gates, Prince Andrew, the former POTUS and PM of Israel. People with the money and connections that even if they were stupid enough to get involved would have their own security and intelligence sources to warn them off. And, lets face it, Epstein's 16 and 17 year olds were not something that billionaires could not arrange for themselves if they were into it. Nygard, Hefner and Flynt had no problem keeping a mansion full of nubile young ladies around.

    Blackmailing mega billionaires is a high risk business. Not to be done without your own security and Epstein didn't seem to have any. That's the mystery.

    Replies: @MGB, @Bardon Kaldian

    Blackmailing mega billionaires is a high risk business. Not to be done without your own security and Epstein didn’t seem to have any. That’s the mystery.

    blackmailing mega billionaires would seem to require the protection of a state security system. don’t know who that might be. wexner apparently had his lawyer whacked, so if there ever did arise any friction between him and epstein, only a few would have the muscle to protect epstein.

    Hugh Hefner turned his ‘lifestyle’ into a brand and made a fortune in doing so.

    i had read some online material about hefner, referencing gus russo and others about the chicago mob, and if i recall correctly there were some legitimate questions about the chicago mansion being a honey trap of sorts as well. there were bunnies (jesus that sounds stupid even when typed) who had specialized knowledge, such as language skills, technical expertise, etc. taking care of politicians and the like. no hint of a black mail op, but pillow talk being vacuumed up.

  58. @Steve Sailer
    @Guy De Champlagne

    But the rainmaking lawyers charge less than the college dropout non-lawyer Epstein supposedly charged.

    Replies: @I, Libertine

    There are some very serious ethical strictures when it comes to splitting fees with non-lawyers. Now that this is coming to light, the law firms involved will have big splainin’ to do, or big bribes to pay.

  59. @Magic Dirt Resident
    I've noticed lots of reporters referring to Epstein as a pedophile. Has there been any evidence that he ever targeted prepubescent kids? This is a weird hill to die on but I don't consider him a pedo.

    Replies: @I, Libertine

    Yes, he was an ephebophile. Few even know that there’s such a disctinction.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @I, Libertine

    One kind of scumbag is much like another. They are like happy families that way.

  60. @Rob McX
    @AnotherDad

    This is why many people see total collapse of the social order as the only solution. With everyone scrabbling for the basics necessary to survive, there could be no surplus production to support those who contribute nothing useful.

    But under these circumstances, there could be no cultural or scientific progress, which requires people whose work provides no immediate benefit to society. The solution would be to learn from past mistakes and build a saner society out of the ruins of the old one. This scenario may prove to be the only hope for whites.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    But under these circumstances, there could be no cultural or scientific progress,

    Currently, there is no cultural progress and very little scientific progress, but plenty of regress in both. So no loss to fear there.

  61. @Dave Pinsen
    Your "whitewashing blackmail" explanation sounds plausible.

    The mysterious aspects about Epstein, to me are:

    1) How he was caught flatfooted by the Feds. With all his highly-placed contacts, he had no idea that he'd be arrested when he landed at Teterboro?

    2) How is Ghislaine in this position? Doesn't she have enough dirt on important people to make this go away?

    3) What percentage of the girls were unwilling participants in the enterprise?

    4) How much did the average girl make and did any have to disgorge gains?

    Replies: @Sean

    He knew the Feds could any time they wanted without gathering any more evidence because Epstein’s deal was with the State of Florida, he had no immunity from a mirror Federal prosecution on almost exactly the same charges.

    Ghislaine’s mother was French and she had a French passport. France does not extradite its citizens All she had to do is leave for France at any time after Epstein was arrested. Even after Epstein died she could not have been stopped from leaving on a normal commercial flight for several months . Instead she never left the US and sat waiting for months until the FBI arrested her She is now being held under the worst conditions of anyone in a US jail. It is almost like there was no enterprise, Epstein is just an embezzling con man with a taste for extremely young girls and a silly society ex lover who indulged him in the hope of marriage.

    The girls in the Miami case (Epstein’s only conviction and the only one where testimony would have been tasted on oath under cross examination) were paid hundreds of dollars to go to his Florida mansion and masturbate him and do stuff with sex toys. He did once try to have penetrative normal sex with the youngest and his favorite one (14 when she started) , but stopped when she screamed no at him. The arrangement was not for actual sex but sexual massages. Later the girls (mainly Hispanic and from impoverished backgrounds) got several hundreds of thousands of dollars each in compensation as part of the deal Epstein lawyers negotiated. Not one of those girls ever said they saw or had sexual contact with any man but Epstein. Apparent connections to Donald Trump (who never visits anyone else’s properties even to golf) explain why the the wildest speculation on all this became a story in the MSM.

  62. @unit472
    Epstein wasn't the only man to have led a famously sybaritic lifestyle. Peter Nygard, the Canadian fashion designer was recently charged for living as an Epstein clone. Hugh Hefner turned his 'lifestyle' into a brand and made a fortune in doing so. At the other end of the scale were sleazy guys like Larry Flynt. Were they all always so fastidious about checking ID's and ,to be honest, getting a fake idea wasn't a big deal. It might not pass inspection by immigration agents or a State highway patrol officer but it would pass for getting a job as a topless dancer , model or concubine.

    What makes Epstein unusual is that he seemed to have no obvious means of support. No inherited wealth, no business with a fat cash flow like Hefner or Nygard. He wasn't Harvey Weinstein Hollywood producer yet here he was entertaining Bill Gates, Prince Andrew, the former POTUS and PM of Israel. People with the money and connections that even if they were stupid enough to get involved would have their own security and intelligence sources to warn them off. And, lets face it, Epstein's 16 and 17 year olds were not something that billionaires could not arrange for themselves if they were into it. Nygard, Hefner and Flynt had no problem keeping a mansion full of nubile young ladies around.

    Blackmailing mega billionaires is a high risk business. Not to be done without your own security and Epstein didn't seem to have any. That's the mystery.

    Replies: @MGB, @Bardon Kaldian

    Agreed on most points. As for blackmailing- I still don’t know what to think about it.

    What seems plausible – at least partly- that those farts involved with Epstein’s pimp-ring did it out of hubris, because of some perverted sense of self-validation. It was about “gee, I am a member of the elite, wow, look at me!”.

    Also, we should differentiate between really big fishes who might have met Epstein casually & actually had nothing to do with him – unlike Clinton & Dershowitz, sleazebaggery incarnated.

  63. Anonymous[251] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alden
    @Ari silver

    Don’t get me started on WASP betrayal of the White race. Quakers are the worst. There’s a theory which I believe that Israel loaned Maxwell the money to buy the Mirror newspaper group with the express purpose of looting the pension fund.selling the real estate etc and splitting the profits with Israel. He was killed because he kept too much of the money.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Ari silver, @Anonymous

    A lot of Czechoslovak weapons found their way to Israel immediately after WWII. Maxwell apparently had something to do with this. Hugely important.

    The theory I heard is that it went to his head, and he tried to extort money from Israel to save his businesses. He was important, but not that important.

  64. @Rob McX
    @dvorak

    "Check out this video footage...you won't be paying much tax from prison" - that's the sort of tax advice that really concentrates the mind.

    Replies: @Sean

    In 1980, four years after joining Bear Stearns, Epstein became a limited partner, the next year he was asked to leave for breaking regulations. A fellow named Hoffenberg hired Jeffrey Epstein to work at the highest level on a debt collection firm that after he left was revealed to be the largest Ponzi scheme ever at the time (before Madoff). Just like Madoff Hoffenberg needed people to help him who knew what he was doing; Epstein likely was in on it and took away a few million. Then he began to pose as an international business wizard. Stealing money from people is a lot safer and less work that blackmailing them. Epstein was already a millionaire, not in a position where he’d be willing to consider desperately dangerous crimes. When you blackmail someone, they know you are blackmailing them. Another problem would be most men are not interested in little girls, so Epstein would have wasted a lot of time on targets who would not bite .

    Blackmail works if the blackmailer is willing to release some discreditable information. However an under age prosttution ring boss would get put in prison for the rest of their life. Crucially, by premeditatedly procuring under age girls for sex Epstein would be committing a far more serious crime than the man who he would be supposedly blackmailing. Old Jeff could not release the tapes or what have you without supplying evidence against himself and ending up in prison himself. When he finally did end up in a real prison he was 66 years old.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Sean

    Another problem would be most men are not interested in little girls,

    Epstein himself wasn't interested in little girls. He was interested in fully grown girls, but ones who might be covered by the statutory rape law of a particular state: i.e., jailbait, barely legal, etc. Epstein didn't have some twisted lust for pre-pubescent children. He lusted after post-pubescents who are legally off-limits due to their mental rather than physical immaturity.

    People use the term "pedophile" indiscriminately these days because it's the only category of sexual disgust we are still allowed to express in public.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

  65. @Steve Sailer
    @Alden

    In Evelyn Waugh novels, foreign powers buy newspapers to promote their foreign policy line. Maybe one of Maxwell's friends gave him the money to buy a newspaper group for political reasons and then was not pleased when he looted it?

    Replies: @anonymous

    Victor Ostrovsky, author of By Way of Deception, and others, have claimed that Maxwell was killed by Mossad because he inadvisedly made some threat to blab if they didn’t bail him out of his financial difficulties after all he’d done for them. He became too much of a risk.

  66. @Muggles
    @Hibernian


    Isn’t this at the very least unauthorized practice of law?
     
    Non attorneys can give advice to others about tax laws. It is public information, the laws, regulations, court cases, IRS decisions, etc.

    You can also ask for payment for advice without being a lawyer. You can even at times act as your own lawyer in court, though judges don't like it.

    Making such a charge about unauthorized legal practice stick would be difficult. It is rarely done unless someone falsely claims to be a bar admitted lawyer and charges for services.

    The more interesting issue, raised here by others, is why would you pay for generic advice when lawyers are needed to actually pursue the advice given? Trusts, corporate structures, etc.

    So on the surface there seems to be something else going on. Due to the mystery here, and Epstein's Jewish background, and Wexler's and Black's, some here assume an Israeli intelligence connection.

    This could be involved (certainly his death is yet another suspicious mystery) but other very rich people have acted oddly. Howard Hughes is a notorious example, though wasn't said to pay enormous sums for no obvious reason.

    The rise of 'conspiracy theory' here is inevitable. What is needed are actual proven facts behind these alleged conspiracies. These are absent. Blackmail seems possible also. But forensic accounting should be able to follow the money trail, if any. Not much said about that.

    Since Epstein didn't live a hidden life (was seen in public, had known abodes, etc.) blackmail seems less likely due to the fact that killing him would save a lot of money for someone. A common blackmailer's problem. And since no "hidden trove" of material has yet surfaced on said alleged victims of blackmail, one has to question that as well. What kind of big time blackmailer doesn't have a 'dead man's throttle' on the dirt he holds?

    Some things don't add up. But what does add up is equally strange.

    Replies: @Almost Missouri

    other very rich people have acted oddly. Howard Hughes is a notorious example, though wasn’t said to pay enormous sums for no obvious reason.

    Okay, but do a lot of rich people all act oddly in the same way to the same person without some compelling underlying cause?

    And since no “hidden trove” of material has yet surfaced on said alleged victims of blackmail

    Oh one surfaced alright,

    https://nypost.com/2019/07/08/feds-found-vast-trove-of-nude-photos-in-jeffrey-epsteins-safe/

    then promptly went down the memory hole.

  67. @Sean
    @Rob McX

    In 1980, four years after joining Bear Stearns, Epstein became a limited partner, the next year he was asked to leave for breaking regulations. A fellow named Hoffenberg hired Jeffrey Epstein to work at the highest level on a debt collection firm that after he left was revealed to be the largest Ponzi scheme ever at the time (before Madoff). Just like Madoff Hoffenberg needed people to help him who knew what he was doing; Epstein likely was in on it and took away a few million. Then he began to pose as an international business wizard. Stealing money from people is a lot safer and less work that blackmailing them. Epstein was already a millionaire, not in a position where he'd be willing to consider desperately dangerous crimes. When you blackmail someone, they know you are blackmailing them. Another problem would be most men are not interested in little girls, so Epstein would have wasted a lot of time on targets who would not bite .

    Blackmail works if the blackmailer is willing to release some discreditable information. However an under age prosttution ring boss would get put in prison for the rest of their life. Crucially, by premeditatedly procuring under age girls for sex Epstein would be committing a far more serious crime than the man who he would be supposedly blackmailing. Old Jeff could not release the tapes or what have you without supplying evidence against himself and ending up in prison himself. When he finally did end up in a real prison he was 66 years old.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Another problem would be most men are not interested in little girls,

    Epstein himself wasn’t interested in little girls. He was interested in fully grown girls, but ones who might be covered by the statutory rape law of a particular state: i.e., jailbait, barely legal, etc. Epstein didn’t have some twisted lust for pre-pubescent children. He lusted after post-pubescents who are legally off-limits due to their mental rather than physical immaturity.

    People use the term “pedophile” indiscriminately these days because it’s the only category of sexual disgust we are still allowed to express in public.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Steve Sailer


    People use the term “pedophile” indiscriminately these days because it’s the only category of sexual disgust we are still allowed to express in public.
     
    Well said Steve.

    The verbiage around this stuff is ridiculous. Girls actually come to sexual maturity faster than boys. Most girls are sexually mature young women by around 16. Some earlier. Almost all before the end of HS. Normal men are physically attracted to such women. I.e. "she hot". (If you dropped more mature brains--maturity in perspective matching the guy's--into their bodies older guys would find them quite fetching. They are not physically "children", but "young women".)

    There are around 15m kids of HS age in the US. (We've been running a bit under 4m births a year.) A couple million of those are probably having sexual intercourse--mostly with each other--so we have a ton of statutory rape going on. (Some states have tried to parse this distinction with "Romeo and Juliet" laws.)

    I don't think this teenage sex is a good thing. I think it's a bad thing. I think it's far better--society is more stable, productive--if sexual intercourse happens after young people reach some level of maturity in their early 20s, find a similarly minded spouse and have a wedding.

    But let's be serious this isn't "pedophilia". Likewise, Epstein was a predatory pimp parasite, not a "pedophile".

    And the "fix" here isn't rooting out "pedophilia"--by all means find the pedophiles and hang 'em, boil 'em in oil whatever--it is rooting out our parasitic elites and re-developing cultural norms that associate healthy sex with marriage, babies and families ... strengthening and continuing the nation.

  68. I’ve spent my career in the wealth management field, including estate and gift tax planning. The idea that a grantor retained annuity trust (GRAT) is some exotic technique requiring some rare expertise and multimillion dollar fees (which doesn’t include drafting the documents, since Epstein wasn’t an attorney) is nothing short of laughable. Any law school or accounting estate and gift tax class will cover them.

    The truly exotic, aggressive tax techniques come from attorneys and accountants parsing the IRC and tax regulations for places where different sections covering similar areas don’t precisely tie together. By contrast, the requirements for GRATs are pretty much spelled out in the Code. As trusts go, they’re not quite plain vanilla, but they’re no more exotic than butter pecan or chocolate chip.

    Further, the kind of clients that Epstein was “serving” are generally smart enough to restrict access to themselves by having a team of trusted advisors on retainer precisely to keep the client from wasting their time and money on people pitching services that the clients don’t need. I can’t imagine any advisor of this caliber allowing their client to allow someone to even schedule a meeting to discuss some thing as basic as a GRAT.

    • Thanks: Almost Missouri
  69. When Traci Lords was appearing in porn ostensibly 19 but actually aged 16 years old, her videos were outselling the next best selling star ten to one, This went on for a year. No one is going to hand over a hundred mil to conceal what they could plausibly claim was making the same mistake that a substantial proportion of the male population made in the eighties when watching Lords’s performances. Ehud Barak defended himself for continuing to associate with Epstein after his conviction by saying Epstein had had sex with a girl of 17. She was actually 14. Epstein was convicted of not just under statutory age sex but suborning an under age girl into prostitution.

    For the purposes of blackmailing someone for a hundred million (and no guarantee that would be the end of it) you would need to be catching the man on tape with a small child. You’d get life imprisonment for setting that up, so how could you credibly threat to publicise it? Especially if you were already yourself a millionaire whose lifestyle was not going to be massively transformed by the money if successful in the blackmail.

  70. Epstein=mossad operative

    He’s probably in Tel Aviv right now.

  71. @I, Libertine
    @Magic Dirt Resident

    Yes, he was an ephebophile. Few even know that there's such a disctinction.

    Replies: @JMcG

    One kind of scumbag is much like another. They are like happy families that way.

  72. It would be interesting to learn more about Epstein’s relationship with Trump over the decades. Seems like they have quite an involved history. Will Ghislaine talk now that Don is out of office? It’s ironic that the Qanoners’ tribune was at most one degree of separation away from an actual child sex trafficking conspiracy, and yet he was supposedly the man to bring thd practice to an end.

  73. @Steve Sailer
    @Sean

    Another problem would be most men are not interested in little girls,

    Epstein himself wasn't interested in little girls. He was interested in fully grown girls, but ones who might be covered by the statutory rape law of a particular state: i.e., jailbait, barely legal, etc. Epstein didn't have some twisted lust for pre-pubescent children. He lusted after post-pubescents who are legally off-limits due to their mental rather than physical immaturity.

    People use the term "pedophile" indiscriminately these days because it's the only category of sexual disgust we are still allowed to express in public.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    People use the term “pedophile” indiscriminately these days because it’s the only category of sexual disgust we are still allowed to express in public.

    Well said Steve.

    The verbiage around this stuff is ridiculous. Girls actually come to sexual maturity faster than boys. Most girls are sexually mature young women by around 16. Some earlier. Almost all before the end of HS. Normal men are physically attracted to such women. I.e. “she hot”. (If you dropped more mature brains–maturity in perspective matching the guy’s–into their bodies older guys would find them quite fetching. They are not physically “children”, but “young women”.)

    There are around 15m kids of HS age in the US. (We’ve been running a bit under 4m births a year.) A couple million of those are probably having sexual intercourse–mostly with each other–so we have a ton of statutory rape going on. (Some states have tried to parse this distinction with “Romeo and Juliet” laws.)

    I don’t think this teenage sex is a good thing. I think it’s a bad thing. I think it’s far better–society is more stable, productive–if sexual intercourse happens after young people reach some level of maturity in their early 20s, find a similarly minded spouse and have a wedding.

    But let’s be serious this isn’t “pedophilia”. Likewise, Epstein was a predatory pimp parasite, not a “pedophile”.

    And the “fix” here isn’t rooting out “pedophilia”–by all means find the pedophiles and hang ’em, boil ’em in oil whatever–it is rooting out our parasitic elites and re-developing cultural norms that associate healthy sex with marriage, babies and families … strengthening and continuing the nation.

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