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The MAD Strategy for the New Cold War: Mutually Assured Deconstruction: What Chinese Grad Students Should be Allowed to Study in America
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Senator Tom Cotton (which I don’t believe is a real name — it sounds like a more on-the-nose version of “Jim Crow”) argues that Chinese grad students should only be allowed to come to America to study non-STEM subjects like Shakespeare and the Federalist Papers, as if that’s what non-STEM grad school consists of these days:

Tom Cotton suggests Chinese students shouldn’t be allowed to study sciences in the US
By Gregg Re | Fox News

Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., told Fox News’ “Sunday Morning Futures” that it was a “scandal” that the United States has trained some Chinese nationals to “go back to China to compete for our jobs, to take our business, and ultimately to steal our property and design weapons and other devices that can be used against the American people.”

Cotton, who has vowed that China will “pay” for what he has called its deliberate choice to unleash the coronavirus on the world, went on to say that the U.S. should take a “hard look at the visas” awarded to Chinese nationals.

“If Chinese students want to come here and study Shakespeare and the Federalist Papers, that’s what they need to learn from America,” Cotton said. “They don’t need to learn quantum computing and artificial intelligence from America.”

 
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  1. SFG says:

    Yeah, if you got the Chinese elites to study all the minoritarian crap they’re feeding the kids now and they tried to elevate Uighurs and Tibetans and make them hate China, you might get some advantage. But the Chinese aren’t that dumb. China’s for the Han, they like it that way, and it’s on the way up. You have to wait until they get rich and decadent, and by then we’ll be too much like Brazil to pull that off.

    • Replies: @128
    @SFG

    Harbin Institute of Science and Technology is pretty OKish so they can just study there?

    Replies: @Deckin, @128, @Jim Don Bob

    , @MBlanc46
    @SFG

    The 21st century might not be the Chinese century, but it certainly won’t be the American century. We’re finished.

  2. Fun phrase, but if we don’t have any Chinese students in science and math, who will get up in front of the class and recite pi out to 500 digits from memory? And think of the tests. Who will cheat on all the tests? They’ll be rotting in the fields, those tests.

    • Replies: @HeapBigHunter
    @Charon


    Fun phrase, but if we don’t have any Chinese students in science and math, who will get up in front of the class and recite pi out to 500 digits from memory?
     
    The same East Asia Indian students who are winning all the spelling bees?

    Immigrants, taking the jobs Americans won't do.

    Who will cheat on all the tests?
     
    Mongolians, Indonesians, and Georgians according to this paper.
    , @Alfa158
    @Charon

    The only kid I know who can do that trick with pi is Jewish. Chuck Schumer aced the SAT by moonlighting at Kaplan Education which specialized in hacking the test and training kids to take it.
    Jewish kids are generally not going into STEM as much as they used to, because they can now have more rewarding positions directing American society and culture through leading positions in law, politics, education, media and finance.
    There was however a stretch back before that when New York City College turned out more Nobel winners in science than Harvard, so if the need should arise, I think they have the chops to take STEM up again.

    Replies: @Redman, @Anonymous

    , @JimB
    @Charon


    Fun phrase, but if we don’t have any Chinese students in science and math, who will get up in front of the class and recite pi out to 500 digits from memory?
     
    Not to mention, who will eat Ramen noodles while scrolling through We-Chat on an iPhone in a biohazard level 4 laboratory.
  3. • Replies: @Anon
    @IHTG

    My money says he's never going to go through with this. Trump has rarely followed through on his immigration threats:
    - Canceling of DACA and DAPA: they're still all in the country
    - Cancelling of temporary protection status for people from Haiti: they're still all in the country
    - Banning Muslim immigration and refugees: they're still coming in, now through the Southern border
    - Ending illegal immigration: until coronavirus, they were still coming in by the thousands each day
    - EO on Birthright Citizenship: where is it? Still not seen.
    - EO to ban H4b visa (work permit for H1b spouses): Where is it? Still not seen.
    - EO to end OPT and H1B due to coronavirus unemployment: Where is it? They're still being hired, even in government jobs.
    - The Wall: Where is it? Still waiting.

    This latest threat of yanking Chinese grad student visas will be just that, yet another empty threat. If he really wants to do it, he would've done it by now. By talking about it, he's just giving the left (in this case the universities) a chance to cry foul and talk him out of something he wasn't going to do in the first place.

    He's just a lying POS when it comes to immigration. Whatever he says about immigration these days, just roll your eyes and say "whatever", it'll never get done.

    Replies: @IHTG, @njguy73

  4. Years ago, Rush Limbaugh made a similar proposal: that we should export to enemy countries like China our crippling social pathologies like feminism, political correctness, deconstructionism, intersectional studies, etc.

    • Replies: @Drew
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    I believe you mean (((social pathologies)))

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @SFG
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    Russia *did* export Communism to China, with the expected disastrous effects. The alt-China that stayed capitalist, Taiwan, is doing pretty well. You *can* build a successful, high-trust society with Chinese people--yeah, they'll be eating with chopsticks and praying for good luck on exams, but it works pretty well. Mainland China finally metabolized it into, more or less, corporatism or fascism--private industry exists and must serve the state, the people serve the nation, etc.

    You'd have to tailor it to the country involved, and I don't think we're clever enough to pull that off for China. I'd argue a lot of wokeness draws on the Christian 'savior complex' and altruism that draws on the example of Christ, who sacrificed his life to save all of humanity. Whites are expected to sacrifice themselves for blacks, etc. as Christ did for everyone. (A few paleocon writers have commented on wokeness as a Christian heresy that removes Christ, which isn't that much wackier than some of the ones people came up with over the years--remember the Cathars? the Gnostics? "See, the Old Testament God and Jesus are actually different beings, and the OT god made the physical universe, so he's evil...")

    It fits a preexisting cultural pattern, that's why it hits home, so to speak. If you wanted to wreck China with an ideology you'd probably have to play up something like Taoism or Legalism that has origins in China and take it in destructive directions. Maybe emphasize the 'action through inaction' aspects of Taoism to make them lazy or something. I don't know nearly enough about China's cultural patterns to come up with a good idea.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    , @EldnahYm
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    No decent person would wish that on the Chinese.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @anon
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    Did Rush include sending to enemy countries our
    crippling mouthers like Rush who direct/ed listeners
    to the inconsequential while avoiding important issues?

  5. I was wondering if ceding such a chunk of science and technology to Asians, as we have done, has bought us any gains over keeping it a more European influenced endeavor?

  6. In defense of Tom Cotton, no one could ever accuse him of suffering from Xenophilia like so many other Americans. I prefer that term to “pathological altruism.”

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Deputy Absurd


    In defense of Tom Cotton, no one could ever accuse him of suffering from Xenophilia like so many other Americans. I prefer that term to “pathological altruism.”
     
    Cotton is obviously right.

    There's really only two things that can happen:

    1) These Chinese bring knowledge and capabilities from US science/tech, back to China.

    or

    2) These Chinese stay in America, and displace native Americans in STEM jobs. With a moratorium in a few generations their descendants would be mixed with American stock and loyal Americans. But in the interim you just have job displacement and people whose loyalties possibly lie with China spread throughout US research and industrial institutions.


    It's telling about our "elite" that they are so dismissive of the rather obvious negatives associated with pimping out our college research capability to the Chinese.
    , @Cloudbuster
    @Deputy Absurd

    "Pathological altruism" is much better than "xenophilia." It highlights the destructive, aberrant nature of the tendency.

    Replies: @David

    , @Anonymous
    @Deputy Absurd

    I like both terms. Xenophilia is an obvious construct but I never thought to use it.

  7. That’s the most subtle way to undo your competitors in the world market – curse their youth with degrees in feminist theory and queer studies.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @Rob McX

    "curse their youth"

    The USA degrades the youth of other countries through the export of black grotesquerie. The supposedly high-IQ Chinese have embraced the mind-numbing NBA carnival of beats and blacks. Hopefully, this will mutate into a cultural virus and rot their society.

    , @David
    @Rob McX

    Pray that your enemies' sons live in luxury.

  8. In a shocking twist, politicians from Arkansas and Tennessee are making bad decisions about race, science, and education

    Doubt anyone would want to go to the states for a looooooong while anyway: 1) scary arrogant ignorant cruelty 2) inefficiency in acting and reacting because of 1. 3) The non-existent values of life, morals and community of Trump and his accomplices. 4) repeat 1-3 ad infinitum.

    • Troll: VinnyVette
    • Replies: @peterike
    @Jeff Brentwood

    Congratulations on your first Unz post, Jeffy! Try again: it would be difficult to reveal yourself as a bigger idiot than you did right out of the gate, but it never hurts to try.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Kent Nationalist
    @Jeff Brentwood


    Doubt anyone would want to go to the states for a looooooong while anyway: 1) scary arrogant ignorant cruelty 2) inefficiency in acting and reacting because of 1. 3) The non-existent values of life, morals and community of Trump and his accomplices. 4) repeat 1-3 ad infinitum.

     

    Non-white people should be prevented from coming to such a horrible racist country, for their own good.
    , @AnotherDad
    @Jeff Brentwood

    Assuming a real Jeff Brentwood ...

    easy solution: separate nations.

    -- Rainbow
    A diversity utopia populated by the Jeff Brentwood's and their various minority pets.

    -- America
    A nation populated by Americans (which would elect leaders like Tom Cotton who represent the interests of their fellow Americans).

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Alexander Turok

    , @John Cunningham
    @Jeff Brentwood

    Hey Jeffy, how about this- you go ESAD??

    , @Alden
    @Jeff Brentwood

    Huh? What do you mean? Can’t understand your post at all.

  9. Like the Soviets jettisoned many refuseniks in the 70’s can’t we unload some of our chosen to Beijing?

    • Replies: @Daemon
    @Anon

    Feel free to unload them off the coast. Just dont expect anyone to pick them up.

  10. @SFG
    Yeah, if you got the Chinese elites to study all the minoritarian crap they're feeding the kids now and they tried to elevate Uighurs and Tibetans and make them hate China, you might get some advantage. But the Chinese aren't that dumb. China's for the Han, they like it that way, and it's on the way up. You have to wait until they get rich and decadent, and by then we'll be too much like Brazil to pull that off.

    Replies: @128, @MBlanc46

    Harbin Institute of Science and Technology is pretty OKish so they can just study there?

    • Replies: @Deckin
    @128

    One winter (or summer) in Harbin is usually all it takes to get any normal human to never want to grace its boundaries again.

    , @128
    @128

    The Ice Festival was marvelous.

    , @Jim Don Bob
    @128

    I hear there are jobs in Wuhan.

  11. >bring back their experiences
    We have now had enough time experimenting with this childish nonsense to know it is nonsense.

    • Replies: @Cloudbuster
    @J.Ross

    Well, if you define "experiences" as "top secret government info and propriety corporate secrets" then it works.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

  12. It is racist to assume that Chinese have allegiance towards China.
    Thus it is not allowed to prevent Chinese, or Jihadist, to be in high commanding positions in police, secret services, military, and research.
    On the other hand, how many black, or caucasian officers can you find in the Chinese army and police?
    Unfortunately, lots of European leftists and “Greens” also have no allegiance towards their heritage and country. See “Deutschland verrecke” and “Bomber harris do it again”, requesting the renewed firebombing of Dresden. Yes, by the green Vice President of the German Bundestag

  13. Well Cotton at least dares to bring it up, though he doesn’t go nearly far enough. We should let no Chinese students into America: none, zero. We should let no Chinese tourists into America: none, zero. We should let no Chinese person immigrate to America: none, zero.

    That’s the correct plan as anyone with tinniest bit of sense can see. Goes for India too.

    • Agree: Cloudbuster
    • Replies: @neutral
    @peterike


    no Chinese tourists into America
     
    What have you got against tourists???
    , @anon
    @peterike

    As far as I know, almost all East Asia wanted to be closed for business, and wanted nothing of your bn society. They were forced to trade by British and American gunboats. The Yangtze patrol consisted of American boats, and was there between 1854 and 1949. But 1949 was a long time ago etc etc.

    Tsinghua (one of the best universities in the world now, despite the lack of sports) was created in 1911 with funds that Teddy Roosevelt wanted to use for educating Chinese students in United States. It was literally a preparatory school for Chinese students that were to come study, later on, in US. It was Teddy Roosevelt's wish. The emperor ambassador wanted just cash. Why complain now?

    You are lucky the Chinese carry a grudging admiration for the American Social Darwinism. If China were to fall into the orbit of France, you wouldn't have the few face masks that you have now. If they were falling in the orbit of Germany, your grandparents would have been defeated in the Pacific. Instead of you having de facto colonies in the Chinese seas, your islands would have been Japanese colonies. Why complain of the admiration inspired by a colonial power who placed their "nuculars" steps away from their shores?

    If Chinese were cured of their neverending interest in study in the US, you'd be left without hundreds of thousands of grad students and postdocs who do the actual work in your precious universities. How many Americans will take up an university job at the current going rate of 40 thousand a year? And the racket goes higher up, it's 50 thousand if you have a PhD, 70 thousand if you have a postdoc, 90 thousand if you face an instructorship! Where would US research be?

    In fact, I doubt many people will read your sciency rags were it not for the Chinese fanboi attidue. For example, it's obvious the Japanese are very effective innovators. (That, despite the usual moans of unzers "muh Asians are not creative") In the medical field, they have journals you don't hear about. Yet, instead of learning about the next Akira Endo, you keep bombarding us with sciency things like Dr Zelenko, George Church, Jennifer Doudna, who at best are healthcare-neutral. Imagine that a billion Chinese hit unsubscribe from America's sciency navel gazing. Every sane person will have to pay for translations, or even learn Chinese, if they want to learn about the next artemisinin. Who is going to waste more time with the most common language of the nigro?

    This week, the Romanian and Chinese government signed a convention of mutual recognition for degrees. The Romanian government declared their interest in recruiting Chinese researchers. Why not joggers from UCSD?

    Replies: @peterike

  14. @Jeff Brentwood
    In a shocking twist, politicians from Arkansas and Tennessee are making bad decisions about race, science, and education

    Doubt anyone would want to go to the states for a looooooong while anyway: 1) scary arrogant ignorant cruelty 2) inefficiency in acting and reacting because of 1. 3) The non-existent values of life, morals and community of Trump and his accomplices. 4) repeat 1-3 ad infinitum.

    Replies: @peterike, @Kent Nationalist, @AnotherDad, @John Cunningham, @Alden

    Congratulations on your first Unz post, Jeffy! Try again: it would be difficult to reveal yourself as a bigger idiot than you did right out of the gate, but it never hurts to try.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @peterike

    I have noticed more "Lefty" commenters here in the last few months. Perhaps it's because the website, like many of us, is gradually shifting to the "Left." Not because we've changed our minds about anything, but because the whole political spectrum is shifting under our feet. Just think about it: even from a hard-core white nationalist perspective, Asian STEM grad students are the last group of non-whites you want to exclude. They're smart, will pay taxes and won't take out much welfare, won't commit crimes or acts of terrorism, and, while still contributing to the declining share of the whites in the American population, at least have low fertility rates once they're here. Meanwhile, the Guatalombian woman with three kids who cleans Trump's resorts is still welcome. Is this really what we signed up for? No, it isn't. It's a few symbolic bones thrown by Neoconservatism Inc. to prevent a repeat of the rebellion of 2016.

  15. Senator Tom Cotton (which I don’t believe is a real name — it sounds like a more on-the-nose version of “Jim Crow”)

    I prefer to think of his name as a more realistic version of “Jefferson Smith.”

  16. Neither the Japanese nor the Koreans needed to attend U.S. colleges to gain high-tech capability, so I don’t think Cotton’s proposal would make much difference. The bigger worry is industrial and government espionage. Why the hell did the CIA employ a Chinese citizen (naturalized to U.S. citizenship) called Jerry Chun Shing Lee?

  17. anon[143] • Disclaimer says:

    argues that Chinese grad students should only be allowed to come to America to study non-STEM subjects like Shakespeare and the Federalist Papers

    Get it while it lasts:

    Yale Daily News:

    Yale will stop teaching a storied introductory survey course in art history, citing the impossibility of adequately covering the entire field — and its varied cultural backgrounds — in one course.
    Decades old and once taught by famous Yale professors like Vincent Scully, “Introduction to Art History: Renaissance to the Present” was once touted to be one of Yale College’s quintessential classes. But this change is the latest response to student uneasiness over an idealized Western “canon” — a product of an overwhelmingly white, straight, European and male cadre of artists.

    https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/01/24/art-history-department-to-scrap-survey-course/

    This diversity thing was a mistake. Fill up your society with envious racists, and suddenly you find multiculturalism means you’re not invited to the party you started.

    If Dan Crenshaw runs for President in 2028 or later, he may well find Texas has gone the way of California. Crenshaw will be another “B-1” Bob Dornan, a military hero who championed black Civil Rights and smirked about whites losing their majority, but who was shocked when psychologically healthier foreigners naturally replaced him with one of their own.

    https://vdare.com/articles/does-conservative-inc-golden-boy-rep-crenshaw-really-not-know-about-1965-immigration-act

    • Troll: Clyde
    • Replies: @Eagle Eye
    @anon


    Decades old and once taught by famous Yale professors like Vincent Scully, “Introduction to Art History: Renaissance to the Present” was once touted to be one of Yale College’s quintessential classes.
     
    OTOH, think of the huge cachet this kind of course would have for upper class girls from China. "I took the famous Yale class covering all of Western art from the Renaissance to the present, then worked as a summer intern at the Louvre in Paris."

    Of course, Miss Ling will have suitable musical accomplishments to go along with her expertise in art history, perhaps a prize in a Baroque lute music competition in Stockholm.

  18. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Years ago, Rush Limbaugh made a similar proposal: that we should export to enemy countries like China our crippling social pathologies like feminism, political correctness, deconstructionism, intersectional studies, etc.

    Replies: @Drew, @SFG, @EldnahYm, @anon

    I believe you mean (((social pathologies)))

    • Agree: Mr. Rational
    • LOL: SOL
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Drew

    Yes, Derridastein, Nietscheberg, Heideggerman, etc. - all Joos (they shortened their names to confound the goyim). If we could only get rid of the Joos all our troubles would be over and we would live in a paradise.

    Replies: @peterike, @Philo of Alexandria, @MBlanc46

  19. I have a pal who came up with the idea, back in the 70’s, that to solve our international competitiveness problem we should invite oodles of foreign students to come here, study law and, I think, business, and then go home. Only a matter of time before their economies were ruined…

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Ganderson

    Why stop at law? Let's also let them study economics, sociology, psychology, political science, LGBTQ studies, women's studies, all the ethnic and regional studies, communications, journalism...

    In fact, how about we just send them our entire "social science" professoriate? Save them the trouble of coming over here.



    no Chinese tourists into America
     
    What have you got against tourists???
     
    They don't leave. 40% of illegals in the US are people who overstayed their visa. Obama gave the Chinese 10 year tourist visas(from 3 months), now many are living in the US on tourist visas, giving birth to anchor babies and sending their kids to our K-12 schools, for free.

    Replies: @Ganderson

  20. @Jeff Brentwood
    In a shocking twist, politicians from Arkansas and Tennessee are making bad decisions about race, science, and education

    Doubt anyone would want to go to the states for a looooooong while anyway: 1) scary arrogant ignorant cruelty 2) inefficiency in acting and reacting because of 1. 3) The non-existent values of life, morals and community of Trump and his accomplices. 4) repeat 1-3 ad infinitum.

    Replies: @peterike, @Kent Nationalist, @AnotherDad, @John Cunningham, @Alden

    Doubt anyone would want to go to the states for a looooooong while anyway: 1) scary arrogant ignorant cruelty 2) inefficiency in acting and reacting because of 1. 3) The non-existent values of life, morals and community of Trump and his accomplices. 4) repeat 1-3 ad infinitum.

    Non-white people should be prevented from coming to such a horrible racist country, for their own good.

    • LOL: Mr. Rational
  21. Will Tom Cotton say anything about the blacks rioting in Minneapolis? Of course not.

    The Chinese are easy targets. Physically puny, quiet and reserved.

    You know what would fix those riots in Minneapolis? A big war with China. Then good whites can fight alongside their black brothers against the locust-like Chinese.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @Bucky

    Uh huh. I've been accused of being ignorant of China by the pro-China trolls, but only someone who had never met or worked with the Chinese would claim they are quiet or reserved. Many -- especially from mainland China -- have no issue telling me exactly what is wrong with my native land, and how Chinese culture is better, while enjoying well paid employment in my native land.

    And yes, the United States being dependent on China in multiple ways is a much more serious threat to the nation as a whole than looters at Target. In 6 months time, in a country of 325 million, another career criminal resisting arrest somewhere will finally get his ticket punched by some exasperated cops, and some other ghetto will riot, and most Americans won't care. And they shouldn't.

    Replies: @bucky

    , @Wilkey
    @Bucky


    Will Tom Cotton say anything about the blacks rioting in Minneapolis? Of course not.
     
    Dude. Dude. Dude....

    How many times I gotta say it? A crucial part of Republican election strategy is not letting blacks get too worked up. Blacks staying away from the polls in 2016 is a big part of the reason Trump won.

    Replies: @bucky

  22. Why, those cotton pick’n voters down Arkansas put him in Congress!

  23. bringing the best and brightest to the US to study and then either stay here, or bring back their experiences in our democracy to their home countries

    Because that strategy has been a roaring success when it comes to China. (/sarc)

  24. I think it’s easier to read Chinese than Judith Butler’s books.

  25. @peterike
    Well Cotton at least dares to bring it up, though he doesn't go nearly far enough. We should let no Chinese students into America: none, zero. We should let no Chinese tourists into America: none, zero. We should let no Chinese person immigrate to America: none, zero.

    That's the correct plan as anyone with tinniest bit of sense can see. Goes for India too.

    Replies: @neutral, @anon

    no Chinese tourists into America

    What have you got against tourists???

  26. OT: A reminder to follow this Twitter account. The amount of positive information coming out about the Trump Cure is astonishing.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @peterike

    Bizarre. Todaro's post and the comments on it indicate that the 'study' that said hydroxychloroquine didn't work has utterly vanished from the internet. The 'company' that did the study appears to be a total fake, too.

    The Lancet got taken for a ride, or else those docs who reviewed the study were taking bribes. I suspect the latter, and those docs who approved the 'study' for the Lancet need to be sued. The study itself was very dubious and showed data that would never have passed normal peer review without bribes, because it was patent nonsense.

    Some people need to go to jail.

  27. It is a weird situation. I’m not sure it’s a good idea to bring in that many foreign nationals into our PhD programs. A non-crazy person could take either position. A nativist would say we’re displacing our own citizens. A globalist would focus bringing in better talent than we can get locally. Both positions have merits.

    However, I don’t know that anyone has explained to me why US taxpayers should pay ~$400k* to train a STEM student, and we then try very hard to send that person back home once he’s trained up. The rationale is we don’t want him competing with Americans for jobs. It’s about six years too late for that. The only question now is where we want him competing.

    * Ballpark estimate. Tuition + stipend + university indirect costs + slice of faculty advisor’s time + whatever is spent on the student. Some places it’s a bit less, others much more. Most of that is paid by government agencies (e.g., NSF, NIH)

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @JosephB

    If you mean specifically science PhDs, then there are about 15,000 granted to foreigners every year. Some are sponsored by their own governments, but many are indeed paid for by American taxpayers. And many may indeed be better used here, after careful scrutiny.

    But I do think masters degrees and PhDs -- both being graduate degrees -- are lumped together far too much in an effort to deceive.

    Completing a masters degree in a science (or engineering) is not a scholarly achievement and certainly does not indicate high skill level or potential in a field. But it is used very extensively by many foreign students -- lots of Indians and Chinese -- to essentially buy the ability to work in the United States for three years after graduation through the OPT program. That type of thing should stop immediately, and Americans wouldn't be wasting money or losing anything by cancelling that program. Enrollment in many masters degree programs would decline precipitously, for some reason.

    Replies: @JosephB

  28. Useless grandstanding by Cotton. The Chinese didn’t have to steal any tech, it was given to them by U.S. multinational corporations when they took their tech with them to to set up their manufacturing operations in China. If he really is outraged then he should be clamoring for Bill Clinton to be prosecuted for the military tech he gave to the Chinese during his presidency.

  29. @Deputy Absurd
    In defense of Tom Cotton, no one could ever accuse him of suffering from Xenophilia like so many other Americans. I prefer that term to "pathological altruism."

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Cloudbuster, @Anonymous

    In defense of Tom Cotton, no one could ever accuse him of suffering from Xenophilia like so many other Americans. I prefer that term to “pathological altruism.”

    Cotton is obviously right.

    There’s really only two things that can happen:

    1) These Chinese bring knowledge and capabilities from US science/tech, back to China.

    or

    2) These Chinese stay in America, and displace native Americans in STEM jobs. With a moratorium in a few generations their descendants would be mixed with American stock and loyal Americans. But in the interim you just have job displacement and people whose loyalties possibly lie with China spread throughout US research and industrial institutions.

    It’s telling about our “elite” that they are so dismissive of the rather obvious negatives associated with pimping out our college research capability to the Chinese.

  30. This will never happen because it will cause the collapse of graduate programs in engineering. When I was in graduate school in engineering I was one of two whites in a program of about 50 students, and that was in the 1980s. Many graduate departments now have no white students and are filled with 100% foreign students, large numbers of whom are from China.

    The US desperately needs an industrial education policy that encourages students to study the hard sciences and engineering. Universities give free ride scholarships to hundreds of thousands of student athletes who participate in sports that nobody watches, funded by the revenue from football and men’s basketball. As a matter of national industrial policy, students who test into engineering programs should be offered free rides in undergraduate school and offered a healthy stipend to attend graduate school.

    Credit to Cotton and Trump for raising the issue.

    • Replies: @Escher
    @JoeEngineer

    It’s the right (and harder) thing to do, which is why it will never happen.

    , @stillCARealist
    @JoeEngineer

    All my engineering family members would agree with you heartily. Those programs have been completely colonized by foreigners and American students have no incentive to pursue them. Once the college guys (and it's mostly male) see that they are wanted, they'll get interested and start earning the PhD's in those fields again.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    , @Anonymous
    @JoeEngineer

    hahaahaha

    This will never happen. We all know what happens to high IQ introverted white kids at school.

    The reason why Asians do better in STEM isn't innate. It's because they give HIGHER status to the high IQ introverts who love STEM.

    , @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @JoeEngineer

    Most of the post WWII American expansion was designed by engineers with just bachelors degrees. I know several older retired NASA engineers who helped design complicated objects that were lobbed safely into space who just had a bachelors -- most were not escaped Nazis. (And most ABET accredited engineering undergraduate programs were, and are, just fine.) Some of the positions these old engineers had nowadays (with equivalent work) require a PhD to be hired.

    So I actually agree that American university science graduate programs are dependent on foreigners. What I don't find convincing is that large numbers of foreign masters students are required at all to maintain national competitiveness. The fact that universities and their professors choose a lazy path is not my problem, and I'm not interested in their dire warnings.

    , @SOL
    @JoeEngineer

    Graduate programs will then get filled by POCs and white women, as is appropriate in the current regime.

  31. anon[364] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterike
    Well Cotton at least dares to bring it up, though he doesn't go nearly far enough. We should let no Chinese students into America: none, zero. We should let no Chinese tourists into America: none, zero. We should let no Chinese person immigrate to America: none, zero.

    That's the correct plan as anyone with tinniest bit of sense can see. Goes for India too.

    Replies: @neutral, @anon

    As far as I know, almost all East Asia wanted to be closed for business, and wanted nothing of your bn society. They were forced to trade by British and American gunboats. The Yangtze patrol consisted of American boats, and was there between 1854 and 1949. But 1949 was a long time ago etc etc.

    Tsinghua (one of the best universities in the world now, despite the lack of sports) was created in 1911 with funds that Teddy Roosevelt wanted to use for educating Chinese students in United States. It was literally a preparatory school for Chinese students that were to come study, later on, in US. It was Teddy Roosevelt’s wish. The emperor ambassador wanted just cash. Why complain now?

    You are lucky the Chinese carry a grudging admiration for the American Social Darwinism. If China were to fall into the orbit of France, you wouldn’t have the few face masks that you have now. If they were falling in the orbit of Germany, your grandparents would have been defeated in the Pacific. Instead of you having de facto colonies in the Chinese seas, your islands would have been Japanese colonies. Why complain of the admiration inspired by a colonial power who placed their “nuculars” steps away from their shores?

    If Chinese were cured of their neverending interest in study in the US, you’d be left without hundreds of thousands of grad students and postdocs who do the actual work in your precious universities. How many Americans will take up an university job at the current going rate of 40 thousand a year? And the racket goes higher up, it’s 50 thousand if you have a PhD, 70 thousand if you have a postdoc, 90 thousand if you face an instructorship! Where would US research be?

    In fact, I doubt many people will read your sciency rags were it not for the Chinese fanboi attidue. For example, it’s obvious the Japanese are very effective innovators. (That, despite the usual moans of unzers “muh Asians are not creative”) In the medical field, they have journals you don’t hear about. Yet, instead of learning about the next Akira Endo, you keep bombarding us with sciency things like Dr Zelenko, George Church, Jennifer Doudna, who at best are healthcare-neutral. Imagine that a billion Chinese hit unsubscribe from America’s sciency navel gazing. Every sane person will have to pay for translations, or even learn Chinese, if they want to learn about the next artemisinin. Who is going to waste more time with the most common language of the nigro?

    This week, the Romanian and Chinese government signed a convention of mutual recognition for degrees. The Romanian government declared their interest in recruiting Chinese researchers. Why not joggers from UCSD?

    • Replies: @peterike
    @anon

    Wah wah, another whiny Chinaman chimes in with a pile of strawmen. I ain't got all day, but here's a few responses to your blather.

    Tsinghua (one of the best universities in the world now, despite the lack of sports) was created in 1911 with funds that Teddy Roosevelt wanted to use for educating Chinese students in United States.

    Teddy was a new world order, early Globalist bum. Creating a university for Chinese invaders is just another data point against him.

    If China were to fall into the orbit of France, you wouldn’t have the few face masks that you have now.

    Or, if vile and traitorous U.S. elites hadn't sold America out, we'd still be making our own masks.

    If they were falling in the orbit of Germany, your grandparents would have been defeated in the Pacific.

    Good. We had no business being in that war at all. FDR: another globalist bum.

    If Chinese were cured of their neverending interest in study in the US, you’d be left without hundreds of thousands of grad students and postdocs who do the actual work in your precious universities.

    No, if traitorous U.S. elites didn't lay out the red carpet for Chinese invaders, those "hundreds of thousands" of grad students and postdocs would be white, legacy Americans. Who do you think filled up these slots before the Chinese invasion happened? Who do you think created all the technology that China stole (with a big, fat helping hand by traitorous Bill Clinton)?

    Ok, that's enough of batting away your dimwitted Chinese comments.

  32. @Jeff Brentwood
    In a shocking twist, politicians from Arkansas and Tennessee are making bad decisions about race, science, and education

    Doubt anyone would want to go to the states for a looooooong while anyway: 1) scary arrogant ignorant cruelty 2) inefficiency in acting and reacting because of 1. 3) The non-existent values of life, morals and community of Trump and his accomplices. 4) repeat 1-3 ad infinitum.

    Replies: @peterike, @Kent Nationalist, @AnotherDad, @John Cunningham, @Alden

    Assuming a real Jeff Brentwood …

    easy solution: separate nations.

    — Rainbow
    A diversity utopia populated by the Jeff Brentwood’s and their various minority pets.

    — America
    A nation populated by Americans (which would elect leaders like Tom Cotton who represent the interests of their fellow Americans).

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @AnotherDad

    Most of the tech industry Cotten is trying to "protect" would wind up outside the partitioned "America."

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @XYZ (no Mr.)

    , @Alexander Turok
    @AnotherDad


    A nation populated by Americans (which would elect leaders like Tom Cotton who represent the interests of their fellow Americans).
     
    Don't you think it's a bit odd that Steve Sailer, who's been talking about this stuff for decades, is not impressed by Tom Cotton? Maybe he sees something that you don't? I wish he'd be more forthright about it, but alls you gots to do is read between the lines.

    Replies: @Lot

  33. @Charon
    Fun phrase, but if we don't have any Chinese students in science and math, who will get up in front of the class and recite pi out to 500 digits from memory? And think of the tests. Who will cheat on all the tests? They'll be rotting in the fields, those tests.

    Replies: @HeapBigHunter, @Alfa158, @JimB

    Fun phrase, but if we don’t have any Chinese students in science and math, who will get up in front of the class and recite pi out to 500 digits from memory?

    The same East Asia Indian students who are winning all the spelling bees?

    Immigrants, taking the jobs Americans won’t do.

    Who will cheat on all the tests?

    Mongolians, Indonesians, and Georgians according to this paper.

  34. SFG says:
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Years ago, Rush Limbaugh made a similar proposal: that we should export to enemy countries like China our crippling social pathologies like feminism, political correctness, deconstructionism, intersectional studies, etc.

    Replies: @Drew, @SFG, @EldnahYm, @anon

    Russia *did* export Communism to China, with the expected disastrous effects. The alt-China that stayed capitalist, Taiwan, is doing pretty well. You *can* build a successful, high-trust society with Chinese people–yeah, they’ll be eating with chopsticks and praying for good luck on exams, but it works pretty well. Mainland China finally metabolized it into, more or less, corporatism or fascism–private industry exists and must serve the state, the people serve the nation, etc.

    You’d have to tailor it to the country involved, and I don’t think we’re clever enough to pull that off for China. I’d argue a lot of wokeness draws on the Christian ‘savior complex’ and altruism that draws on the example of Christ, who sacrificed his life to save all of humanity. Whites are expected to sacrifice themselves for blacks, etc. as Christ did for everyone. (A few paleocon writers have commented on wokeness as a Christian heresy that removes Christ, which isn’t that much wackier than some of the ones people came up with over the years–remember the Cathars? the Gnostics? “See, the Old Testament God and Jesus are actually different beings, and the OT god made the physical universe, so he’s evil…”)

    It fits a preexisting cultural pattern, that’s why it hits home, so to speak. If you wanted to wreck China with an ideology you’d probably have to play up something like Taoism or Legalism that has origins in China and take it in destructive directions. Maybe emphasize the ‘action through inaction’ aspects of Taoism to make them lazy or something. I don’t know nearly enough about China’s cultural patterns to come up with a good idea.

    • Replies: @SunBakedSuburb
    @SFG

    "wackier"

    The Gnostic story of the demiurge is more seemless than the preacher from Nazareth becomes a deity scenario.

  35. @Jeff Brentwood
    In a shocking twist, politicians from Arkansas and Tennessee are making bad decisions about race, science, and education

    Doubt anyone would want to go to the states for a looooooong while anyway: 1) scary arrogant ignorant cruelty 2) inefficiency in acting and reacting because of 1. 3) The non-existent values of life, morals and community of Trump and his accomplices. 4) repeat 1-3 ad infinitum.

    Replies: @peterike, @Kent Nationalist, @AnotherDad, @John Cunningham, @Alden

    Hey Jeffy, how about this- you go ESAD??

    • Agree: Alden
  36. @Drew
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    I believe you mean (((social pathologies)))

    Replies: @Jack D

    Yes, Derridastein, Nietscheberg, Heideggerman, etc. – all Joos (they shortened their names to confound the goyim). If we could only get rid of the Joos all our troubles would be over and we would live in a paradise.

    • Replies: @peterike
    @Jack D


    Yes, Derridastein, Nietscheberg, Heideggerman, etc. – all Joos (they shortened their names to confound the goyim).
     
    Derrida actually is a Jew.

    "Derrida was born on July 15, 1930, in a summer home in El Biar (Algiers), Algeria,into a Sephardic Jewish family (originally from Toledo) that became French in 1870 when the Crémieux Decree granted full French citizenship to the indigenous Arabic-speaking Jews of Algeria."

    , @Philo of Alexandria
    @Jack D

    Derrida was, in fact, a Jew, and Heidegger and Nietzsche were reactionaries.

    , @MBlanc46
    @Jack D

    Derrida, of course, was a Jew. But thanks for playing.

  37. Anon[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @IHTG
    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1265961040057155585

    Replies: @Anon

    My money says he’s never going to go through with this. Trump has rarely followed through on his immigration threats:
    – Canceling of DACA and DAPA: they’re still all in the country
    – Cancelling of temporary protection status for people from Haiti: they’re still all in the country
    – Banning Muslim immigration and refugees: they’re still coming in, now through the Southern border
    – Ending illegal immigration: until coronavirus, they were still coming in by the thousands each day
    – EO on Birthright Citizenship: where is it? Still not seen.
    – EO to ban H4b visa (work permit for H1b spouses): Where is it? Still not seen.
    – EO to end OPT and H1B due to coronavirus unemployment: Where is it? They’re still being hired, even in government jobs.
    – The Wall: Where is it? Still waiting.

    This latest threat of yanking Chinese grad student visas will be just that, yet another empty threat. If he really wants to do it, he would’ve done it by now. By talking about it, he’s just giving the left (in this case the universities) a chance to cry foul and talk him out of something he wasn’t going to do in the first place.

    He’s just a lying POS when it comes to immigration. Whatever he says about immigration these days, just roll your eyes and say “whatever”, it’ll never get done.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri, Alden
    • Replies: @IHTG
    @Anon

    Cancelling DACA was never going to lead to insta-mass deportation all DACA migrants who were already in the US. The administration did stop handing out new DACA permits for a time, until the courts overturned it. They're waiting for a SCOTUS decision.

    Even before the virus, illegal immigration had already been brought down by the Return To Mexico agreement.

    The wall (big border fence) is being built.

    People need to pay less attention to Ann Coulter-type blackpillers and more to expert immigration restrictionist commentators who can give you a more balanced view.

    Replies: @peterike, @anon

    , @njguy73
    @Anon

    How's that makey-greaty thing goin' for ya now, eh?

  38. @Jack D
    @Drew

    Yes, Derridastein, Nietscheberg, Heideggerman, etc. - all Joos (they shortened their names to confound the goyim). If we could only get rid of the Joos all our troubles would be over and we would live in a paradise.

    Replies: @peterike, @Philo of Alexandria, @MBlanc46

    Yes, Derridastein, Nietscheberg, Heideggerman, etc. – all Joos (they shortened their names to confound the goyim).

    Derrida actually is a Jew.

    “Derrida was born on July 15, 1930, in a summer home in El Biar (Algiers), Algeria,into a Sephardic Jewish family (originally from Toledo) that became French in 1870 when the Crémieux Decree granted full French citizenship to the indigenous Arabic-speaking Jews of Algeria.”

  39. @Charon
    Fun phrase, but if we don't have any Chinese students in science and math, who will get up in front of the class and recite pi out to 500 digits from memory? And think of the tests. Who will cheat on all the tests? They'll be rotting in the fields, those tests.

    Replies: @HeapBigHunter, @Alfa158, @JimB

    The only kid I know who can do that trick with pi is Jewish. Chuck Schumer aced the SAT by moonlighting at Kaplan Education which specialized in hacking the test and training kids to take it.
    Jewish kids are generally not going into STEM as much as they used to, because they can now have more rewarding positions directing American society and culture through leading positions in law, politics, education, media and finance.
    There was however a stretch back before that when New York City College turned out more Nobel winners in science than Harvard, so if the need should arise, I think they have the chops to take STEM up again.

    • Agree: Redman
    • Replies: @Redman
    @Alfa158

    One of my close Jewish friends in college took the LSAT prep course with me at the Stanley Kaplan headquarters in midtown. He was quite wealthy and hired one of the Kaplan instructors as a private tutor on top of the general class. The tutor told him about the "trick" of determining which of the 2 reading comprehension tests was not graded (not sure why they did that at the time, but they would always have one test out of 4 which didn't count for your score).

    My friend used that trick to go back to the prior sections (logical reasoning and logic games) with the 45 extra minutes he gained by ignoring the fake reading comp test. He still scored below me and my other friends taking the test and thus scrapped going to law school.

    He wound up going into journalism and wrote a NYT bestselling book arguing for war in Iraq in 2003. One month after reaching #1 on the NYT bestseller list, we were at war with Iraq. All things being equal, journalists cause more harm than lawyers. Unless the lawyers become politicians.

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros

    , @Anonymous
    @Alfa158

    "Jewish kids are generally not going into STEM as much as they used to, because they can now have more rewarding positions directing American society and culture through leading positions in law, politics, education, media and finance."

    This isn't the case.

    Jewish enrollment at elite colleges has collapsed in the past 15 years.

    Replies: @Anon

  40. The funny thing is that the people cheering this on will be much more likely to have their speech censored on Facebook, one of ‘our’ businesses, then on a Chinese equivalent like WeChat.

    The Left doesn’t deserve to win, but I’m pretty much convinced at this point that the Right deserves to lose.

  41. @AnotherDad
    @Jeff Brentwood

    Assuming a real Jeff Brentwood ...

    easy solution: separate nations.

    -- Rainbow
    A diversity utopia populated by the Jeff Brentwood's and their various minority pets.

    -- America
    A nation populated by Americans (which would elect leaders like Tom Cotton who represent the interests of their fellow Americans).

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Alexander Turok

    Most of the tech industry Cotten is trying to “protect” would wind up outside the partitioned “America.”

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Alexander Turok


    Most of the tech industry Cotten is trying to “protect” would wind up outside the partitioned “America.”
     
    I doubt it long term.

    People are confused about the economically "dynamic" areas of "progressive" states. Those areas, those industries exist because they were developed from the huge market and talent pool of the historic (white) American nation.

    Silicon Valley doesn't exist in China or India--much less Mexico or Nigeria. It came about by being attached to a giant, prosperous, talented white nation.

    I'm not saying it would be impossible, post-separation, to keep a tech hub running as its own deal--sort of Singapore style. But you'll note, that Singapore is not "diversity"--it's run by it's ethnic Chinese majority--and it's certainly not progressive.

    And if the new "Rainbow" nation actually hewed to its minoritarian prog principles--"diversity is our greatest strength" and "nation of immigrants"--then it would become a terrible place for dynamic business and would fill up with "less desirable" immigrants that would turn it into a shithole. (They are way, way, way more "less desirable" immigrants available in the world then there are high quality Indian and Chinese tech workers.)

    In contrast, while the downsized "America" would not have the scale and base of the America of 1960, this "new" revived and reified America would have its (mostly white) guys motivated to recreate its institutions and industry. Shorn of baggage, shorn of the minoritarian terror and now a nation again it would take off.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

    , @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @Alexander Turok

    The parts of it that are trivial, yes.

  42. @Rob McX
    That's the most subtle way to undo your competitors in the world market - curse their youth with degrees in feminist theory and queer studies.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @David

    “curse their youth”

    The USA degrades the youth of other countries through the export of black grotesquerie. The supposedly high-IQ Chinese have embraced the mind-numbing NBA carnival of beats and blacks. Hopefully, this will mutate into a cultural virus and rot their society.

  43. @Jack D
    @Drew

    Yes, Derridastein, Nietscheberg, Heideggerman, etc. - all Joos (they shortened their names to confound the goyim). If we could only get rid of the Joos all our troubles would be over and we would live in a paradise.

    Replies: @peterike, @Philo of Alexandria, @MBlanc46

    Derrida was, in fact, a Jew, and Heidegger and Nietzsche were reactionaries.

  44. @SFG
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    Russia *did* export Communism to China, with the expected disastrous effects. The alt-China that stayed capitalist, Taiwan, is doing pretty well. You *can* build a successful, high-trust society with Chinese people--yeah, they'll be eating with chopsticks and praying for good luck on exams, but it works pretty well. Mainland China finally metabolized it into, more or less, corporatism or fascism--private industry exists and must serve the state, the people serve the nation, etc.

    You'd have to tailor it to the country involved, and I don't think we're clever enough to pull that off for China. I'd argue a lot of wokeness draws on the Christian 'savior complex' and altruism that draws on the example of Christ, who sacrificed his life to save all of humanity. Whites are expected to sacrifice themselves for blacks, etc. as Christ did for everyone. (A few paleocon writers have commented on wokeness as a Christian heresy that removes Christ, which isn't that much wackier than some of the ones people came up with over the years--remember the Cathars? the Gnostics? "See, the Old Testament God and Jesus are actually different beings, and the OT god made the physical universe, so he's evil...")

    It fits a preexisting cultural pattern, that's why it hits home, so to speak. If you wanted to wreck China with an ideology you'd probably have to play up something like Taoism or Legalism that has origins in China and take it in destructive directions. Maybe emphasize the 'action through inaction' aspects of Taoism to make them lazy or something. I don't know nearly enough about China's cultural patterns to come up with a good idea.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb

    “wackier”

    The Gnostic story of the demiurge is more seemless than the preacher from Nazareth becomes a deity scenario.

  45. We could send the New York Times Editorial Board on a sealed train to Beijing. But the Chinese would just laugh at them.

  46. @Deputy Absurd
    In defense of Tom Cotton, no one could ever accuse him of suffering from Xenophilia like so many other Americans. I prefer that term to "pathological altruism."

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Cloudbuster, @Anonymous

    “Pathological altruism” is much better than “xenophilia.” It highlights the destructive, aberrant nature of the tendency.

    • Replies: @David
    @Cloudbuster

    Agree. Plus, they don't love foreignness, or think it exists.

  47. Anonymous[220] • Disclaimer says:

    Shouldn’t Carl Bergstrom be paying attention to this coronavirus thing instead? He needs to conserve his Hectoring/Admonitory/Proclamatory resources for that. Or grandma will die

  48. @J.Ross
    >bring back their experiences
    We have now had enough time experimenting with this childish nonsense to know it is nonsense.

    Replies: @Cloudbuster

    Well, if you define “experiences” as “top secret government info and propriety corporate secrets” then it works.

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @Cloudbuster

    A good anti-Trump ad would feature Trump using the phrase "our corporations" and then alternate him praising and condemning the various tech companies. Repeat the phrase throughout, and end with giant capital letters: "OUR CORPORATIONS."

  49. If memory serves, Carl T. Bergstrom has made previous appearances as a iSteve content generator, no?

  50. @AnotherDad
    @Jeff Brentwood

    Assuming a real Jeff Brentwood ...

    easy solution: separate nations.

    -- Rainbow
    A diversity utopia populated by the Jeff Brentwood's and their various minority pets.

    -- America
    A nation populated by Americans (which would elect leaders like Tom Cotton who represent the interests of their fellow Americans).

    Replies: @Alexander Turok, @Alexander Turok

    A nation populated by Americans (which would elect leaders like Tom Cotton who represent the interests of their fellow Americans).

    Don’t you think it’s a bit odd that Steve Sailer, who’s been talking about this stuff for decades, is not impressed by Tom Cotton? Maybe he sees something that you don’t? I wish he’d be more forthright about it, but alls you gots to do is read between the lines.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Alexander Turok

    “ is not impressed by Tom Cotton”

    Based on a joke about his name?

    If I could elevate one member of congress to the presidency, it would be him. Probably Steve would as well.

    He’ll probably run in 2024, so I might get my wish. He looks kind of skinny and boyish still, might want to start lifting heavy and let his hair go grey if he’s dying it now.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  51. “Mutually assured deconstruction” in this post is a classic.

  52. @128
    @SFG

    Harbin Institute of Science and Technology is pretty OKish so they can just study there?

    Replies: @Deckin, @128, @Jim Don Bob

    One winter (or summer) in Harbin is usually all it takes to get any normal human to never want to grace its boundaries again.

  53. Anonymous[958] • Disclaimer says:

    The common sense way to solve this problem is to bar members of the CCP (past or present) from holding H1B visas, and getting advanced degrees in the sciences in the US.

    Everyone talks about the technology transfer of companies doing business in China. But in tech, most technology transfer occurs by a foreign software engineer downloading all of the source code for a company (all available on internal version control systems like Github), and setting up shop in a place like China.

  54. Many, many American Jewish kids are no longer genetically 100% Jewish- I’ve seen numbers that claim intermarriage rates with Gentiles as high as 75%. This is another large, usually unspoken reason why Jewish achievement isn’t what it used to be.
    The 50% Jew usually marries a Gentile too, so in a couple of generations they’re done.

    The new “Hellenized Jews”.

    American Jews will most likely suffer the same fate.

    • Replies: @SOL
    @Charlesz Martel

    How much of that 75% consists of Asian females?

  55. @Alfa158
    @Charon

    The only kid I know who can do that trick with pi is Jewish. Chuck Schumer aced the SAT by moonlighting at Kaplan Education which specialized in hacking the test and training kids to take it.
    Jewish kids are generally not going into STEM as much as they used to, because they can now have more rewarding positions directing American society and culture through leading positions in law, politics, education, media and finance.
    There was however a stretch back before that when New York City College turned out more Nobel winners in science than Harvard, so if the need should arise, I think they have the chops to take STEM up again.

    Replies: @Redman, @Anonymous

    One of my close Jewish friends in college took the LSAT prep course with me at the Stanley Kaplan headquarters in midtown. He was quite wealthy and hired one of the Kaplan instructors as a private tutor on top of the general class. The tutor told him about the “trick” of determining which of the 2 reading comprehension tests was not graded (not sure why they did that at the time, but they would always have one test out of 4 which didn’t count for your score).

    My friend used that trick to go back to the prior sections (logical reasoning and logic games) with the 45 extra minutes he gained by ignoring the fake reading comp test. He still scored below me and my other friends taking the test and thus scrapped going to law school.

    He wound up going into journalism and wrote a NYT bestselling book arguing for war in Iraq in 2003. One month after reaching #1 on the NYT bestseller list, we were at war with Iraq. All things being equal, journalists cause more harm than lawyers. Unless the lawyers become politicians.

    • Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros
    @Redman

    Maybe his private tutor was a good salesman, and only pretended to know which of the two tests should be ignored. Your feeble minded friend solved the comprehension test that was not graded.

  56. @anon
    @peterike

    As far as I know, almost all East Asia wanted to be closed for business, and wanted nothing of your bn society. They were forced to trade by British and American gunboats. The Yangtze patrol consisted of American boats, and was there between 1854 and 1949. But 1949 was a long time ago etc etc.

    Tsinghua (one of the best universities in the world now, despite the lack of sports) was created in 1911 with funds that Teddy Roosevelt wanted to use for educating Chinese students in United States. It was literally a preparatory school for Chinese students that were to come study, later on, in US. It was Teddy Roosevelt's wish. The emperor ambassador wanted just cash. Why complain now?

    You are lucky the Chinese carry a grudging admiration for the American Social Darwinism. If China were to fall into the orbit of France, you wouldn't have the few face masks that you have now. If they were falling in the orbit of Germany, your grandparents would have been defeated in the Pacific. Instead of you having de facto colonies in the Chinese seas, your islands would have been Japanese colonies. Why complain of the admiration inspired by a colonial power who placed their "nuculars" steps away from their shores?

    If Chinese were cured of their neverending interest in study in the US, you'd be left without hundreds of thousands of grad students and postdocs who do the actual work in your precious universities. How many Americans will take up an university job at the current going rate of 40 thousand a year? And the racket goes higher up, it's 50 thousand if you have a PhD, 70 thousand if you have a postdoc, 90 thousand if you face an instructorship! Where would US research be?

    In fact, I doubt many people will read your sciency rags were it not for the Chinese fanboi attidue. For example, it's obvious the Japanese are very effective innovators. (That, despite the usual moans of unzers "muh Asians are not creative") In the medical field, they have journals you don't hear about. Yet, instead of learning about the next Akira Endo, you keep bombarding us with sciency things like Dr Zelenko, George Church, Jennifer Doudna, who at best are healthcare-neutral. Imagine that a billion Chinese hit unsubscribe from America's sciency navel gazing. Every sane person will have to pay for translations, or even learn Chinese, if they want to learn about the next artemisinin. Who is going to waste more time with the most common language of the nigro?

    This week, the Romanian and Chinese government signed a convention of mutual recognition for degrees. The Romanian government declared their interest in recruiting Chinese researchers. Why not joggers from UCSD?

    Replies: @peterike

    Wah wah, another whiny Chinaman chimes in with a pile of strawmen. I ain’t got all day, but here’s a few responses to your blather.

    Tsinghua (one of the best universities in the world now, despite the lack of sports) was created in 1911 with funds that Teddy Roosevelt wanted to use for educating Chinese students in United States.

    Teddy was a new world order, early Globalist bum. Creating a university for Chinese invaders is just another data point against him.

    If China were to fall into the orbit of France, you wouldn’t have the few face masks that you have now.

    Or, if vile and traitorous U.S. elites hadn’t sold America out, we’d still be making our own masks.

    If they were falling in the orbit of Germany, your grandparents would have been defeated in the Pacific.

    Good. We had no business being in that war at all. FDR: another globalist bum.

    If Chinese were cured of their neverending interest in study in the US, you’d be left without hundreds of thousands of grad students and postdocs who do the actual work in your precious universities.

    No, if traitorous U.S. elites didn’t lay out the red carpet for Chinese invaders, those “hundreds of thousands” of grad students and postdocs would be white, legacy Americans. Who do you think filled up these slots before the Chinese invasion happened? Who do you think created all the technology that China stole (with a big, fat helping hand by traitorous Bill Clinton)?

    Ok, that’s enough of batting away your dimwitted Chinese comments.

  57. @128
    @SFG

    Harbin Institute of Science and Technology is pretty OKish so they can just study there?

    Replies: @Deckin, @128, @Jim Don Bob

    The Ice Festival was marvelous.

  58. @Cloudbuster
    @J.Ross

    Well, if you define "experiences" as "top secret government info and propriety corporate secrets" then it works.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

    A good anti-Trump ad would feature Trump using the phrase “our corporations” and then alternate him praising and condemning the various tech companies. Repeat the phrase throughout, and end with giant capital letters: “OUR CORPORATIONS.”

  59. JimB says:
    @Charon
    Fun phrase, but if we don't have any Chinese students in science and math, who will get up in front of the class and recite pi out to 500 digits from memory? And think of the tests. Who will cheat on all the tests? They'll be rotting in the fields, those tests.

    Replies: @HeapBigHunter, @Alfa158, @JimB

    Fun phrase, but if we don’t have any Chinese students in science and math, who will get up in front of the class and recite pi out to 500 digits from memory?

    Not to mention, who will eat Ramen noodles while scrolling through We-Chat on an iPhone in a biohazard level 4 laboratory.

    • LOL: Clyde
  60. Fantastic restored movie recently posted.

    • Agree: Coemgen
    • Thanks: Chrisnonymous
  61. Lot says:
    @Alexander Turok
    @AnotherDad


    A nation populated by Americans (which would elect leaders like Tom Cotton who represent the interests of their fellow Americans).
     
    Don't you think it's a bit odd that Steve Sailer, who's been talking about this stuff for decades, is not impressed by Tom Cotton? Maybe he sees something that you don't? I wish he'd be more forthright about it, but alls you gots to do is read between the lines.

    Replies: @Lot

    “ is not impressed by Tom Cotton”

    Based on a joke about his name?

    If I could elevate one member of congress to the presidency, it would be him. Probably Steve would as well.

    He’ll probably run in 2024, so I might get my wish. He looks kind of skinny and boyish still, might want to start lifting heavy and let his hair go grey if he’s dying it now.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Lot

    Tom Cotton is nothing but an Israel loving neocon stooge, like his fellow Harvard grad Mayor Pete Buttplug, or Dan Crenshaw and all the GOP rats. All are fake patriots, or at least their patriotism is not to America but to Israel and their own political gains. All his hostility against China is just following orders from the top, like Pompeo and Trump. If China gives in tomorrow and allows the Wall Street banking cabal full access to its banks and financial system, all that hostility would disappear overnight, coronavirus and HK be damned. This is just him sucking up to his (((neocon))) bosses to get backing for 2024.

    The real patriots are Ann Coulter, Kris Kobach and maybe, Josh Hawley.

    Replies: @Lot

  62. @Jeff Brentwood
    In a shocking twist, politicians from Arkansas and Tennessee are making bad decisions about race, science, and education

    Doubt anyone would want to go to the states for a looooooong while anyway: 1) scary arrogant ignorant cruelty 2) inefficiency in acting and reacting because of 1. 3) The non-existent values of life, morals and community of Trump and his accomplices. 4) repeat 1-3 ad infinitum.

    Replies: @peterike, @Kent Nationalist, @AnotherDad, @John Cunningham, @Alden

    Huh? What do you mean? Can’t understand your post at all.

  63. @JoeEngineer
    This will never happen because it will cause the collapse of graduate programs in engineering. When I was in graduate school in engineering I was one of two whites in a program of about 50 students, and that was in the 1980s. Many graduate departments now have no white students and are filled with 100% foreign students, large numbers of whom are from China.

    The US desperately needs an industrial education policy that encourages students to study the hard sciences and engineering. Universities give free ride scholarships to hundreds of thousands of student athletes who participate in sports that nobody watches, funded by the revenue from football and men's basketball. As a matter of national industrial policy, students who test into engineering programs should be offered free rides in undergraduate school and offered a healthy stipend to attend graduate school.

    Credit to Cotton and Trump for raising the issue.

    Replies: @Escher, @stillCARealist, @Anonymous, @XYZ (no Mr.), @SOL

    It’s the right (and harder) thing to do, which is why it will never happen.

  64. @Anon
    @IHTG

    My money says he's never going to go through with this. Trump has rarely followed through on his immigration threats:
    - Canceling of DACA and DAPA: they're still all in the country
    - Cancelling of temporary protection status for people from Haiti: they're still all in the country
    - Banning Muslim immigration and refugees: they're still coming in, now through the Southern border
    - Ending illegal immigration: until coronavirus, they were still coming in by the thousands each day
    - EO on Birthright Citizenship: where is it? Still not seen.
    - EO to ban H4b visa (work permit for H1b spouses): Where is it? Still not seen.
    - EO to end OPT and H1B due to coronavirus unemployment: Where is it? They're still being hired, even in government jobs.
    - The Wall: Where is it? Still waiting.

    This latest threat of yanking Chinese grad student visas will be just that, yet another empty threat. If he really wants to do it, he would've done it by now. By talking about it, he's just giving the left (in this case the universities) a chance to cry foul and talk him out of something he wasn't going to do in the first place.

    He's just a lying POS when it comes to immigration. Whatever he says about immigration these days, just roll your eyes and say "whatever", it'll never get done.

    Replies: @IHTG, @njguy73

    Cancelling DACA was never going to lead to insta-mass deportation all DACA migrants who were already in the US. The administration did stop handing out new DACA permits for a time, until the courts overturned it. They’re waiting for a SCOTUS decision.

    Even before the virus, illegal immigration had already been brought down by the Return To Mexico agreement.

    The wall (big border fence) is being built.

    People need to pay less attention to Ann Coulter-type blackpillers and more to expert immigration restrictionist commentators who can give you a more balanced view.

    • Agree: Manfred Arcane
    • Replies: @peterike
    @IHTG


    People need to pay less attention to Ann Coulter-type blackpillers and more to expert immigration restrictionist commentators who can give you a more balanced view.
     
    Yes. And the "Trump's done nothing about immigration!" people should consider what every alternative, D or R, would have offered, which is a wide-open floodgate and more immigrant giveaway programs than ever. Yes, Trump has been disappointing on this front, but he's done literally infinitely more than any alternative, because the alternatives would have done less then nothing as they actively increased the harm being done. And Trump has, bit by bit, actually done quite a lot.

    Remember: the non-Trump alternative is open borders. Period. But go vote for Biden out of pique.

    , @anon
    @IHTG


    Even before the virus, illegal immigration had already been brought down by the Return To Mexico agreement.
     
    Illegal immigration soared to record or near-record highs for the first 3 years of Trump's term. If it's down now, it's only due to the economy tanking. Trump, in his own words, also supports record legal immigration.

    The wall (big border fence) is being built.
     
    It isn't. Most of what is being "built" is refurbished sections built under Bush. Only a few miles have been built elsewhere. At the current rate, it would take decades to complete, assuming the rest of the wall doesn't deteriorate with time.


    People need to pay less attention to Ann Coulter-type blackpillers and more to expert immigration restrictionist commentators who can give you a more balanced view.
     
    People need to think for themselves and not blindly follow a conman who has lied about everything and accomplished nothing. Being "blackpilled" only means that you're not dumb enough to believe everything you hear from Trump and his sycophants, most of whom get their information from shill websites.

    Replies: @IHTG

  65. @Anon
    @IHTG

    My money says he's never going to go through with this. Trump has rarely followed through on his immigration threats:
    - Canceling of DACA and DAPA: they're still all in the country
    - Cancelling of temporary protection status for people from Haiti: they're still all in the country
    - Banning Muslim immigration and refugees: they're still coming in, now through the Southern border
    - Ending illegal immigration: until coronavirus, they were still coming in by the thousands each day
    - EO on Birthright Citizenship: where is it? Still not seen.
    - EO to ban H4b visa (work permit for H1b spouses): Where is it? Still not seen.
    - EO to end OPT and H1B due to coronavirus unemployment: Where is it? They're still being hired, even in government jobs.
    - The Wall: Where is it? Still waiting.

    This latest threat of yanking Chinese grad student visas will be just that, yet another empty threat. If he really wants to do it, he would've done it by now. By talking about it, he's just giving the left (in this case the universities) a chance to cry foul and talk him out of something he wasn't going to do in the first place.

    He's just a lying POS when it comes to immigration. Whatever he says about immigration these days, just roll your eyes and say "whatever", it'll never get done.

    Replies: @IHTG, @njguy73

    How’s that makey-greaty thing goin’ for ya now, eh?

  66. @Alexander Turok
    @AnotherDad

    Most of the tech industry Cotten is trying to "protect" would wind up outside the partitioned "America."

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @XYZ (no Mr.)

    Most of the tech industry Cotten is trying to “protect” would wind up outside the partitioned “America.”

    I doubt it long term.

    People are confused about the economically “dynamic” areas of “progressive” states. Those areas, those industries exist because they were developed from the huge market and talent pool of the historic (white) American nation.

    Silicon Valley doesn’t exist in China or India–much less Mexico or Nigeria. It came about by being attached to a giant, prosperous, talented white nation.

    I’m not saying it would be impossible, post-separation, to keep a tech hub running as its own deal–sort of Singapore style. But you’ll note, that Singapore is not “diversity”–it’s run by it’s ethnic Chinese majority–and it’s certainly not progressive.

    And if the new “Rainbow” nation actually hewed to its minoritarian prog principles–“diversity is our greatest strength” and “nation of immigrants”–then it would become a terrible place for dynamic business and would fill up with “less desirable” immigrants that would turn it into a shithole. (They are way, way, way more “less desirable” immigrants available in the world then there are high quality Indian and Chinese tech workers.)

    In contrast, while the downsized “America” would not have the scale and base of the America of 1960, this “new” revived and reified America would have its (mostly white) guys motivated to recreate its institutions and industry. Shorn of baggage, shorn of the minoritarian terror and now a nation again it would take off.

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @AnotherDad

    Silicon Valley does exist in China.

    As to the progress of "Redistan" and "Blueistan," there would be a gradual movement of business away from Blueistan, though it would end up recreating the same problem that caused the original partition. Whatever caused its creation, Silicon Valley is Blue in its professed values today, sneering at the "Americanism" Tom Cotton promotes. So why Tom Cotton is going to bat for it, I don't know. Perhaps it's that "pathological altruism?" Redistan would be run by fossils like him, people who still think colleges are teaching the federalist papers.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

  67. @JosephB
    It is a weird situation. I'm not sure it's a good idea to bring in that many foreign nationals into our PhD programs. A non-crazy person could take either position. A nativist would say we're displacing our own citizens. A globalist would focus bringing in better talent than we can get locally. Both positions have merits.

    However, I don't know that anyone has explained to me why US taxpayers should pay ~$400k* to train a STEM student, and we then try very hard to send that person back home once he's trained up. The rationale is we don't want him competing with Americans for jobs. It's about six years too late for that. The only question now is where we want him competing.





    * Ballpark estimate. Tuition + stipend + university indirect costs + slice of faculty advisor's time + whatever is spent on the student. Some places it's a bit less, others much more. Most of that is paid by government agencies (e.g., NSF, NIH)

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

    If you mean specifically science PhDs, then there are about 15,000 granted to foreigners every year. Some are sponsored by their own governments, but many are indeed paid for by American taxpayers. And many may indeed be better used here, after careful scrutiny.

    But I do think masters degrees and PhDs — both being graduate degrees — are lumped together far too much in an effort to deceive.

    Completing a masters degree in a science (or engineering) is not a scholarly achievement and certainly does not indicate high skill level or potential in a field. But it is used very extensively by many foreign students — lots of Indians and Chinese — to essentially buy the ability to work in the United States for three years after graduation through the OPT program. That type of thing should stop immediately, and Americans wouldn’t be wasting money or losing anything by cancelling that program. Enrollment in many masters degree programs would decline precipitously, for some reason.

    • Agree: Sean, Joseph Doaks
    • Replies: @JosephB
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    I was speaking to STEM PhDs, as those are almost always taxpayer funded. MS degrees are a mixed bag with respect to funding. I've been in departments that had ~100% of MS degrees funded by US taxpayers. Some programs are pure cash cows with all students paying tuition.

    I'm a bit more optimistic on MS degree recipients. I concur they are not at the same level as the PhD students I interact with. However, I see them as a net positive for the US. Certainly they are much brighter than the average local, and tend to have a strong work ethic. I don't see many of them as having negative interactions with law enforcement either. I could be talked out of it, but am inclined to favor having a streamlined green card process for anyone with a STEM MS or PhD. For the MS, maybe restrict it to the top N schools in the US, or the top 1/3 of degree recipients.

    We could cancel OPT and make it hard for people to stay. That would certainly crush the enrollments at many MS programs. But...why is that a good thing? At present we're getting money flowing into the US.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

  68. @Alexander Turok
    @AnotherDad

    Most of the tech industry Cotten is trying to "protect" would wind up outside the partitioned "America."

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @XYZ (no Mr.)

    The parts of it that are trivial, yes.

  69. @AnotherDad
    @Alexander Turok


    Most of the tech industry Cotten is trying to “protect” would wind up outside the partitioned “America.”
     
    I doubt it long term.

    People are confused about the economically "dynamic" areas of "progressive" states. Those areas, those industries exist because they were developed from the huge market and talent pool of the historic (white) American nation.

    Silicon Valley doesn't exist in China or India--much less Mexico or Nigeria. It came about by being attached to a giant, prosperous, talented white nation.

    I'm not saying it would be impossible, post-separation, to keep a tech hub running as its own deal--sort of Singapore style. But you'll note, that Singapore is not "diversity"--it's run by it's ethnic Chinese majority--and it's certainly not progressive.

    And if the new "Rainbow" nation actually hewed to its minoritarian prog principles--"diversity is our greatest strength" and "nation of immigrants"--then it would become a terrible place for dynamic business and would fill up with "less desirable" immigrants that would turn it into a shithole. (They are way, way, way more "less desirable" immigrants available in the world then there are high quality Indian and Chinese tech workers.)

    In contrast, while the downsized "America" would not have the scale and base of the America of 1960, this "new" revived and reified America would have its (mostly white) guys motivated to recreate its institutions and industry. Shorn of baggage, shorn of the minoritarian terror and now a nation again it would take off.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

    Silicon Valley does exist in China.

    As to the progress of “Redistan” and “Blueistan,” there would be a gradual movement of business away from Blueistan, though it would end up recreating the same problem that caused the original partition. Whatever caused its creation, Silicon Valley is Blue in its professed values today, sneering at the “Americanism” Tom Cotton promotes. So why Tom Cotton is going to bat for it, I don’t know. Perhaps it’s that “pathological altruism?” Redistan would be run by fossils like him, people who still think colleges are teaching the federalist papers.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @Alexander Turok

    Silicon Valley became Silicon Valley -- actually designing and making computer chips -- when it was very much a conservative and libertarian area. It has become overwhelmingly progressive as it has become increasingly foreign born. That is solely a function of the greed of American software companies rapidly importing large foreign populations, not some intrinsic feature of the software industry itself that requires either foreign talent, or attracts individuals with progressive values.

    Any software movement to Red states would actually not magically recreate the conservative/libertarian to progressive transition of this valley. It would be much more dispersed, and that means the software industry, and associated managers, and workers, would be fighting cultural battles day to day across many fronts. The average employee in the industry would actually become more conservative.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

  70. @Bucky
    Will Tom Cotton say anything about the blacks rioting in Minneapolis? Of course not.

    The Chinese are easy targets. Physically puny, quiet and reserved.

    You know what would fix those riots in Minneapolis? A big war with China. Then good whites can fight alongside their black brothers against the locust-like Chinese.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.), @Wilkey

    Uh huh. I’ve been accused of being ignorant of China by the pro-China trolls, but only someone who had never met or worked with the Chinese would claim they are quiet or reserved. Many — especially from mainland China — have no issue telling me exactly what is wrong with my native land, and how Chinese culture is better, while enjoying well paid employment in my native land.

    And yes, the United States being dependent on China in multiple ways is a much more serious threat to the nation as a whole than looters at Target. In 6 months time, in a country of 325 million, another career criminal resisting arrest somewhere will finally get his ticket punched by some exasperated cops, and some other ghetto will riot, and most Americans won’t care. And they shouldn’t.

    • Replies: @bucky
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    Do you think Trump or Pence has ever met or worked with Chinese?

  71. Anon[170] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterike
    OT: A reminder to follow this Twitter account. The amount of positive information coming out about the Trump Cure is astonishing.

    https://twitter.com/niro60487270

    Replies: @Anon

    Bizarre. Todaro’s post and the comments on it indicate that the ‘study’ that said hydroxychloroquine didn’t work has utterly vanished from the internet. The ‘company’ that did the study appears to be a total fake, too.

    The Lancet got taken for a ride, or else those docs who reviewed the study were taking bribes. I suspect the latter, and those docs who approved the ‘study’ for the Lancet need to be sued. The study itself was very dubious and showed data that would never have passed normal peer review without bribes, because it was patent nonsense.

    Some people need to go to jail.

  72. Eagle Eye says:
    @anon

    argues that Chinese grad students should only be allowed to come to America to study non-STEM subjects like Shakespeare and the Federalist Papers
     
    Get it while it lasts:

    Yale Daily News:

    Yale will stop teaching a storied introductory survey course in art history, citing the impossibility of adequately covering the entire field — and its varied cultural backgrounds — in one course.
    Decades old and once taught by famous Yale professors like Vincent Scully, “Introduction to Art History: Renaissance to the Present” was once touted to be one of Yale College’s quintessential classes. But this change is the latest response to student uneasiness over an idealized Western “canon” — a product of an overwhelmingly white, straight, European and male cadre of artists.

    https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/01/24/art-history-department-to-scrap-survey-course/
     
    This diversity thing was a mistake. Fill up your society with envious racists, and suddenly you find multiculturalism means you're not invited to the party you started.

    If Dan Crenshaw runs for President in 2028 or later, he may well find Texas has gone the way of California. Crenshaw will be another “B-1” Bob Dornan, a military hero who championed black Civil Rights and smirked about whites losing their majority, but who was shocked when psychologically healthier foreigners naturally replaced him with one of their own.

    https://vdare.com/articles/does-conservative-inc-golden-boy-rep-crenshaw-really-not-know-about-1965-immigration-act
     

    Replies: @Eagle Eye

    Decades old and once taught by famous Yale professors like Vincent Scully, “Introduction to Art History: Renaissance to the Present” was once touted to be one of Yale College’s quintessential classes.

    OTOH, think of the huge cachet this kind of course would have for upper class girls from China. “I took the famous Yale class covering all of Western art from the Renaissance to the present, then worked as a summer intern at the Louvre in Paris.”

    Of course, Miss Ling will have suitable musical accomplishments to go along with her expertise in art history, perhaps a prize in a Baroque lute music competition in Stockholm.

  73. @IHTG
    @Anon

    Cancelling DACA was never going to lead to insta-mass deportation all DACA migrants who were already in the US. The administration did stop handing out new DACA permits for a time, until the courts overturned it. They're waiting for a SCOTUS decision.

    Even before the virus, illegal immigration had already been brought down by the Return To Mexico agreement.

    The wall (big border fence) is being built.

    People need to pay less attention to Ann Coulter-type blackpillers and more to expert immigration restrictionist commentators who can give you a more balanced view.

    Replies: @peterike, @anon

    People need to pay less attention to Ann Coulter-type blackpillers and more to expert immigration restrictionist commentators who can give you a more balanced view.

    Yes. And the “Trump’s done nothing about immigration!” people should consider what every alternative, D or R, would have offered, which is a wide-open floodgate and more immigrant giveaway programs than ever. Yes, Trump has been disappointing on this front, but he’s done literally infinitely more than any alternative, because the alternatives would have done less then nothing as they actively increased the harm being done. And Trump has, bit by bit, actually done quite a lot.

    Remember: the non-Trump alternative is open borders. Period. But go vote for Biden out of pique.

    • Thanks: Manfred Arcane
  74. @JoeEngineer
    This will never happen because it will cause the collapse of graduate programs in engineering. When I was in graduate school in engineering I was one of two whites in a program of about 50 students, and that was in the 1980s. Many graduate departments now have no white students and are filled with 100% foreign students, large numbers of whom are from China.

    The US desperately needs an industrial education policy that encourages students to study the hard sciences and engineering. Universities give free ride scholarships to hundreds of thousands of student athletes who participate in sports that nobody watches, funded by the revenue from football and men's basketball. As a matter of national industrial policy, students who test into engineering programs should be offered free rides in undergraduate school and offered a healthy stipend to attend graduate school.

    Credit to Cotton and Trump for raising the issue.

    Replies: @Escher, @stillCARealist, @Anonymous, @XYZ (no Mr.), @SOL

    All my engineering family members would agree with you heartily. Those programs have been completely colonized by foreigners and American students have no incentive to pursue them. Once the college guys (and it’s mostly male) see that they are wanted, they’ll get interested and start earning the PhD’s in those fields again.

    • Replies: @Chrisnonymous
    @stillCARealist

    I think it's more complicated than that.
    (1) When I was in high school, a number of my peers said they were going to engineering programs, but all switched majors after a semester or year. Why? They were unprepared for the math. Secondary school-level math education has to be improved.
    (2) Many universities make money from foreign students, who pay more--or just pay--than domestic students.
    (3) The jobs have to be there after graduation. No more competing with foreigners for positions or promotions.

    Replies: @stillCARealist

  75. Anonymous[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @Deputy Absurd
    In defense of Tom Cotton, no one could ever accuse him of suffering from Xenophilia like so many other Americans. I prefer that term to "pathological altruism."

    Replies: @AnotherDad, @Cloudbuster, @Anonymous

    I like both terms. Xenophilia is an obvious construct but I never thought to use it.

  76. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Years ago, Rush Limbaugh made a similar proposal: that we should export to enemy countries like China our crippling social pathologies like feminism, political correctness, deconstructionism, intersectional studies, etc.

    Replies: @Drew, @SFG, @EldnahYm, @anon

    No decent person would wish that on the Chinese.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @EldnahYm


    No decent person would wish that on the Chinese.
     
    Is Maoism, i.e., Leninism spiked with monosodium glutamate, any better?

    Falun Gong may be as loony as the Moonies, but they're right on the money in saying that communism is an alien import and any Chinaman who embraces it is a traitor to his race.
  77. Steve, your tweet didn’t include Ferdinand de Saussure but, point taken nevertheless.

  78. @Rob McX
    That's the most subtle way to undo your competitors in the world market - curse their youth with degrees in feminist theory and queer studies.

    Replies: @SunBakedSuburb, @David

    Pray that your enemies’ sons live in luxury.

  79. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ganderson
    I have a pal who came up with the idea, back in the 70’s, that to solve our international competitiveness problem we should invite oodles of foreign students to come here, study law and, I think, business, and then go home. Only a matter of time before their economies were ruined...

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Why stop at law? Let’s also let them study economics, sociology, psychology, political science, LGBTQ studies, women’s studies, all the ethnic and regional studies, communications, journalism…

    In fact, how about we just send them our entire “social science” professoriate? Save them the trouble of coming over here.

    no Chinese tourists into America

    What have you got against tourists???

    They don’t leave. 40% of illegals in the US are people who overstayed their visa. Obama gave the Chinese 10 year tourist visas(from 3 months), now many are living in the US on tourist visas, giving birth to anchor babies and sending their kids to our K-12 schools, for free.

    • Replies: @Ganderson
    @Anonymous

    Agree- but that stuff was in its infancy back in the 70’s.

  80. Anonymous[217] • Disclaimer says:
    @JoeEngineer
    This will never happen because it will cause the collapse of graduate programs in engineering. When I was in graduate school in engineering I was one of two whites in a program of about 50 students, and that was in the 1980s. Many graduate departments now have no white students and are filled with 100% foreign students, large numbers of whom are from China.

    The US desperately needs an industrial education policy that encourages students to study the hard sciences and engineering. Universities give free ride scholarships to hundreds of thousands of student athletes who participate in sports that nobody watches, funded by the revenue from football and men's basketball. As a matter of national industrial policy, students who test into engineering programs should be offered free rides in undergraduate school and offered a healthy stipend to attend graduate school.

    Credit to Cotton and Trump for raising the issue.

    Replies: @Escher, @stillCARealist, @Anonymous, @XYZ (no Mr.), @SOL

    hahaahaha

    This will never happen. We all know what happens to high IQ introverted white kids at school.

    The reason why Asians do better in STEM isn’t innate. It’s because they give HIGHER status to the high IQ introverts who love STEM.

  81. @Cloudbuster
    @Deputy Absurd

    "Pathological altruism" is much better than "xenophilia." It highlights the destructive, aberrant nature of the tendency.

    Replies: @David

    Agree. Plus, they don’t love foreignness, or think it exists.

  82. @Alexander Turok
    @AnotherDad

    Silicon Valley does exist in China.

    As to the progress of "Redistan" and "Blueistan," there would be a gradual movement of business away from Blueistan, though it would end up recreating the same problem that caused the original partition. Whatever caused its creation, Silicon Valley is Blue in its professed values today, sneering at the "Americanism" Tom Cotton promotes. So why Tom Cotton is going to bat for it, I don't know. Perhaps it's that "pathological altruism?" Redistan would be run by fossils like him, people who still think colleges are teaching the federalist papers.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

    Silicon Valley became Silicon Valley — actually designing and making computer chips — when it was very much a conservative and libertarian area. It has become overwhelmingly progressive as it has become increasingly foreign born. That is solely a function of the greed of American software companies rapidly importing large foreign populations, not some intrinsic feature of the software industry itself that requires either foreign talent, or attracts individuals with progressive values.

    Any software movement to Red states would actually not magically recreate the conservative/libertarian to progressive transition of this valley. It would be much more dispersed, and that means the software industry, and associated managers, and workers, would be fighting cultural battles day to day across many fronts. The average employee in the industry would actually become more conservative.

    • Replies: @Alexander Turok
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    White computer programmers lean Democrat as well. I'm a programmer myself and I think there is nothing intrinsic about our personalities that would attract us to the Left over the Right. But there is something intrinsic about our personalities which leads us to be uninterested in religion. And particularly the emotion-laden, anti-intellectual religion of American evangelical Protestantism. We might be attracted to Judaism or traditional Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy, with their emphasis on book-learning. But the whole "you gotta accept the grace of Jesus into your heart...," that just repels us. We're just not interested in feelings. We might accept a lot of crazy nonsense, but it's got to make the pretense of being based on "learning."

    If the American Right wants to win American computer programmers, politicians need to shut their traps about Jesus.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

  83. @JoeEngineer
    This will never happen because it will cause the collapse of graduate programs in engineering. When I was in graduate school in engineering I was one of two whites in a program of about 50 students, and that was in the 1980s. Many graduate departments now have no white students and are filled with 100% foreign students, large numbers of whom are from China.

    The US desperately needs an industrial education policy that encourages students to study the hard sciences and engineering. Universities give free ride scholarships to hundreds of thousands of student athletes who participate in sports that nobody watches, funded by the revenue from football and men's basketball. As a matter of national industrial policy, students who test into engineering programs should be offered free rides in undergraduate school and offered a healthy stipend to attend graduate school.

    Credit to Cotton and Trump for raising the issue.

    Replies: @Escher, @stillCARealist, @Anonymous, @XYZ (no Mr.), @SOL

    Most of the post WWII American expansion was designed by engineers with just bachelors degrees. I know several older retired NASA engineers who helped design complicated objects that were lobbed safely into space who just had a bachelors — most were not escaped Nazis. (And most ABET accredited engineering undergraduate programs were, and are, just fine.) Some of the positions these old engineers had nowadays (with equivalent work) require a PhD to be hired.

    So I actually agree that American university science graduate programs are dependent on foreigners. What I don’t find convincing is that large numbers of foreign masters students are required at all to maintain national competitiveness. The fact that universities and their professors choose a lazy path is not my problem, and I’m not interested in their dire warnings.

  84. @stillCARealist
    @JoeEngineer

    All my engineering family members would agree with you heartily. Those programs have been completely colonized by foreigners and American students have no incentive to pursue them. Once the college guys (and it's mostly male) see that they are wanted, they'll get interested and start earning the PhD's in those fields again.

    Replies: @Chrisnonymous

    I think it’s more complicated than that.
    (1) When I was in high school, a number of my peers said they were going to engineering programs, but all switched majors after a semester or year. Why? They were unprepared for the math. Secondary school-level math education has to be improved.
    (2) Many universities make money from foreign students, who pay more–or just pay–than domestic students.
    (3) The jobs have to be there after graduation. No more competing with foreigners for positions or promotions.

    • Agree: Joseph Doaks
    • Replies: @stillCARealist
    @Chrisnonymous

    Yes, I agree with all that.

    My bias is that 75% of the male population should be either a technician or an engineer of some sort. It may be higher. But the guys in school should be directed that way and let the truly bright ones become engineers and the rest installers, repairmen, and such support staff.

  85. Anonymous[291] • Disclaimer says:
    @Lot
    @Alexander Turok

    “ is not impressed by Tom Cotton”

    Based on a joke about his name?

    If I could elevate one member of congress to the presidency, it would be him. Probably Steve would as well.

    He’ll probably run in 2024, so I might get my wish. He looks kind of skinny and boyish still, might want to start lifting heavy and let his hair go grey if he’s dying it now.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Tom Cotton is nothing but an Israel loving neocon stooge, like his fellow Harvard grad Mayor Pete Buttplug, or Dan Crenshaw and all the GOP rats. All are fake patriots, or at least their patriotism is not to America but to Israel and their own political gains. All his hostility against China is just following orders from the top, like Pompeo and Trump. If China gives in tomorrow and allows the Wall Street banking cabal full access to its banks and financial system, all that hostility would disappear overnight, coronavirus and HK be damned. This is just him sucking up to his (((neocon))) bosses to get backing for 2024.

    The real patriots are Ann Coulter, Kris Kobach and maybe, Josh Hawley.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Anonymous

    Coulter, 2017:

    “ Are they retarded? (By “they,” I mean all Republicans in Congress, except Sen. Tom Cotton and about a half-dozen others.)”

    “ This is just him sucking up to his (((neocon))) bosses to get backing for 2024.”

    Wow, he’s got game, quoted Leo Strauss as a college junior:

    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1997/3/20/our-warped-campaign-laws-pbwbhen-discussing/

    He pandered to Steve too, with an article about how he loves the Ryder Cup:

    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1999/9/27/editorial-notebook-all-glory-to-the/

    https://www.arkansasnews.com/storyimage/AR/20150831/NEWS/308319951/AR/0/AR-308319951.jpg

  86. Someone (was it Anatoly Karlin?) suggested recently that China was insulated from Western academic poz because its leaders are never drawn from among the Western-educated. A Chinese princeling may study in the U.S., but he’s not going to replace his father in the politburo.

    • Replies: @Anatoly Karlin
    @Dave Pinsen

    It was Duke of Qin:

    https://twitter.com/qin_duke/status/1147871579902271489

  87. Lot says:
    @Anonymous
    @Lot

    Tom Cotton is nothing but an Israel loving neocon stooge, like his fellow Harvard grad Mayor Pete Buttplug, or Dan Crenshaw and all the GOP rats. All are fake patriots, or at least their patriotism is not to America but to Israel and their own political gains. All his hostility against China is just following orders from the top, like Pompeo and Trump. If China gives in tomorrow and allows the Wall Street banking cabal full access to its banks and financial system, all that hostility would disappear overnight, coronavirus and HK be damned. This is just him sucking up to his (((neocon))) bosses to get backing for 2024.

    The real patriots are Ann Coulter, Kris Kobach and maybe, Josh Hawley.

    Replies: @Lot

    Coulter, 2017:

    “ Are they retarded? (By “they,” I mean all Republicans in Congress, except Sen. Tom Cotton and about a half-dozen others.)”

    “ This is just him sucking up to his (((neocon))) bosses to get backing for 2024.”

    Wow, he’s got game, quoted Leo Strauss as a college junior:

    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1997/3/20/our-warped-campaign-laws-pbwbhen-discussing/

    He pandered to Steve too, with an article about how he loves the Ryder Cup:

    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/1999/9/27/editorial-notebook-all-glory-to-the/

  88. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @Alexander Turok

    Silicon Valley became Silicon Valley -- actually designing and making computer chips -- when it was very much a conservative and libertarian area. It has become overwhelmingly progressive as it has become increasingly foreign born. That is solely a function of the greed of American software companies rapidly importing large foreign populations, not some intrinsic feature of the software industry itself that requires either foreign talent, or attracts individuals with progressive values.

    Any software movement to Red states would actually not magically recreate the conservative/libertarian to progressive transition of this valley. It would be much more dispersed, and that means the software industry, and associated managers, and workers, would be fighting cultural battles day to day across many fronts. The average employee in the industry would actually become more conservative.

    Replies: @Alexander Turok

    White computer programmers lean Democrat as well. I’m a programmer myself and I think there is nothing intrinsic about our personalities that would attract us to the Left over the Right. But there is something intrinsic about our personalities which leads us to be uninterested in religion. And particularly the emotion-laden, anti-intellectual religion of American evangelical Protestantism. We might be attracted to Judaism or traditional Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy, with their emphasis on book-learning. But the whole “you gotta accept the grace of Jesus into your heart…,” that just repels us. We’re just not interested in feelings. We might accept a lot of crazy nonsense, but it’s got to make the pretense of being based on “learning.”

    If the American Right wants to win American computer programmers, politicians need to shut their traps about Jesus.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @Alexander Turok

    I'm a software engineer and in Silicon Valley itself there are still plenty of conservative white American software engineers (white American engineers being a fraction of the total) . They are certainly underrepresented at certain companies that focus on social media -- and Apple. But without foreign workers the valley itself would be much more conservative. And the American software engineers I know in other parts of the country are definitely more conservative.

    So don't speak about 'we' because you don't know nearly as much as you think. And you speak about programmers and religion in an authoritative tone, yet get it completely wrong. What's stunning is someone like Donald Knuth (of Stanford) literally wrote the greatest masterpiece ever on algorithms (in his own assembly code, to boot) and yet is a member of the First Lutheran Church in Palo Alto. He composes religious music in his spare time (which is a lot now). He's quite happy to talk about his faith. About half of computer science professors in many surveys believe in God, and many of those a personal God (which would indicate evangelical tendencies).

    Lots of individual evangelical worshippers are too emotional for my taste. But there are plenty of apologetics books and seminars in the evangelical world. And since no one is compelled to sing or pray out loud, no one is being asked to do anything they don't want to do. I certainly don't.

    So conservative Americans don't have to do anything to win many software engineers over, besides ensure most of them in the future are American born and bred.

  89. Anonymous[280] • Disclaimer says:
    @Alfa158
    @Charon

    The only kid I know who can do that trick with pi is Jewish. Chuck Schumer aced the SAT by moonlighting at Kaplan Education which specialized in hacking the test and training kids to take it.
    Jewish kids are generally not going into STEM as much as they used to, because they can now have more rewarding positions directing American society and culture through leading positions in law, politics, education, media and finance.
    There was however a stretch back before that when New York City College turned out more Nobel winners in science than Harvard, so if the need should arise, I think they have the chops to take STEM up again.

    Replies: @Redman, @Anonymous

    “Jewish kids are generally not going into STEM as much as they used to, because they can now have more rewarding positions directing American society and culture through leading positions in law, politics, education, media and finance.”

    This isn’t the case.

    Jewish enrollment at elite colleges has collapsed in the past 15 years.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Anonymous


    Jewish enrollment at elite colleges has collapsed in the past 15 years.
     
    I guess you hadn't read Ron Unz's The Myth of American Meritocracy. Jews make up over 20% of enrollment at all of the Ivy League, except at Princeton and Dartmouth where they are around 13%. Jews avoid those two schools because they are the most academically rigorous with the least grade inflation.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  90. After ’92 or so, the US relaxed.

    This is reminiscent of the period following September 11th, 2001, minus the urgency and conviction. After the 2001 attacks the Feds decreed that all non-citizen(?) students (especially grad students) with interesting backgrounds needed to be monitored for actual attendance, sticking to legitimate enrollment and so on. Reporting became very strict for some time. We used to call this common sense.

    That strict monitoring and attention faded with the years (a.k.a., “we let down our guard”). We’re all human, and these days any common sense efforts are seen as xenophobic.

    Most of us of a certain age look back on our years at university with memories and recollections that don’t match today’s reality. When I was an undergraduate, I personally was acquainted with only one Chinese national, and a few Soviet Bloc types for some spice to taste (daughters of big-shot Party members back home).

    Today, an American research university probably has 1/3 as many Lis (Li as family name) as Smiths in its directory. That’s an amazing thing to notice.

  91. Anonymous[511] • Disclaimer says:
    @peterike
    @Jeff Brentwood

    Congratulations on your first Unz post, Jeffy! Try again: it would be difficult to reveal yourself as a bigger idiot than you did right out of the gate, but it never hurts to try.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I have noticed more “Lefty” commenters here in the last few months. Perhaps it’s because the website, like many of us, is gradually shifting to the “Left.” Not because we’ve changed our minds about anything, but because the whole political spectrum is shifting under our feet. Just think about it: even from a hard-core white nationalist perspective, Asian STEM grad students are the last group of non-whites you want to exclude. They’re smart, will pay taxes and won’t take out much welfare, won’t commit crimes or acts of terrorism, and, while still contributing to the declining share of the whites in the American population, at least have low fertility rates once they’re here. Meanwhile, the Guatalombian woman with three kids who cleans Trump’s resorts is still welcome. Is this really what we signed up for? No, it isn’t. It’s a few symbolic bones thrown by Neoconservatism Inc. to prevent a repeat of the rebellion of 2016.

  92. Senator Tom Cotton (which I don’t believe is a real name — it sounds like a more on-the-nose version of “Jim Crow”)

    He needs allies with related names. Remember Claude Pepper and JJ Pickle? The “battle of the condiments”:

    https://www.rstreet.org/2019/11/26/how-social-security-was-saved-and-might-be-again-the-american-interest/

  93. @EldnahYm
    @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)

    No decent person would wish that on the Chinese.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    No decent person would wish that on the Chinese.

    Is Maoism, i.e., Leninism spiked with monosodium glutamate, any better?

    Falun Gong may be as loony as the Moonies, but they’re right on the money in saying that communism is an alien import and any Chinaman who embraces it is a traitor to his race.

  94. @SFG
    Yeah, if you got the Chinese elites to study all the minoritarian crap they're feeding the kids now and they tried to elevate Uighurs and Tibetans and make them hate China, you might get some advantage. But the Chinese aren't that dumb. China's for the Han, they like it that way, and it's on the way up. You have to wait until they get rich and decadent, and by then we'll be too much like Brazil to pull that off.

    Replies: @128, @MBlanc46

    The 21st century might not be the Chinese century, but it certainly won’t be the American century. We’re finished.

  95. @Jack D
    @Drew

    Yes, Derridastein, Nietscheberg, Heideggerman, etc. - all Joos (they shortened their names to confound the goyim). If we could only get rid of the Joos all our troubles would be over and we would live in a paradise.

    Replies: @peterike, @Philo of Alexandria, @MBlanc46

    Derrida, of course, was a Jew. But thanks for playing.

  96. Anonymous[373] • Disclaimer says:

    I realize this is a joke post but the glue that binds the non-STEM majors is the shared understanding that white people are evil oppressors who do not deserve to have their own country, to have power, to procreate and raise children with their own people. Instead, they should be ashamed, subordinate, and the word “racist” should be enough to shut them up.

    To brainwash Chinese with this viewpoint (where they might otherwise have had some respect for us) is not going to work out well for us.

  97. Every university student in China, no matter the course of study, is required to take the following course:

    “Mao Zedong Thought and Introduction to Socialist Theory with Chinese Characteristics” (the title may vary slightly between universities).

    Even in science, engineering and management/finance courses, students are required to study courses such as:

    “Modern and Contemporary History of China”
    “Moral Cultivation and Bases of Law (Honesty and self-cultivation)”

    Students must also do courses related to military training. Actual course titles include:

    “Theory of Military”
    “Military Training”

    They do not “bring back their experience with democracy” overseas to China.

  98. @JoeEngineer
    This will never happen because it will cause the collapse of graduate programs in engineering. When I was in graduate school in engineering I was one of two whites in a program of about 50 students, and that was in the 1980s. Many graduate departments now have no white students and are filled with 100% foreign students, large numbers of whom are from China.

    The US desperately needs an industrial education policy that encourages students to study the hard sciences and engineering. Universities give free ride scholarships to hundreds of thousands of student athletes who participate in sports that nobody watches, funded by the revenue from football and men's basketball. As a matter of national industrial policy, students who test into engineering programs should be offered free rides in undergraduate school and offered a healthy stipend to attend graduate school.

    Credit to Cotton and Trump for raising the issue.

    Replies: @Escher, @stillCARealist, @Anonymous, @XYZ (no Mr.), @SOL

    Graduate programs will then get filled by POCs and white women, as is appropriate in the current regime.

  99. @Charlesz Martel
    Many, many American Jewish kids are no longer genetically 100% Jewish- I've seen numbers that claim intermarriage rates with Gentiles as high as 75%. This is another large, usually unspoken reason why Jewish achievement isn't what it used to be.
    The 50% Jew usually marries a Gentile too, so in a couple of generations they're done.

    The new "Hellenized Jews".

    American Jews will most likely suffer the same fate.

    Replies: @SOL

    How much of that 75% consists of Asian females?

  100. “Moral Cultivation and Bases of Law (Honesty and self-cultivation)”

    That one that sounds pretty good to me. We could use that as a university level core course, over here.

  101. Anon[291] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Alfa158

    "Jewish kids are generally not going into STEM as much as they used to, because they can now have more rewarding positions directing American society and culture through leading positions in law, politics, education, media and finance."

    This isn't the case.

    Jewish enrollment at elite colleges has collapsed in the past 15 years.

    Replies: @Anon

    Jewish enrollment at elite colleges has collapsed in the past 15 years.

    I guess you hadn’t read Ron Unz’s The Myth of American Meritocracy. Jews make up over 20% of enrollment at all of the Ivy League, except at Princeton and Dartmouth where they are around 13%. Jews avoid those two schools because they are the most academically rigorous with the least grade inflation.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anon

    I've read it. His numbers are out of date.

    A better analysis would be that in spite of an Asian quota by predominantly Jewish university admins, it's still not enough to keep the Jewish proportion from dropping like a stone.

    https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-vanishing-ivy-league-jew

    Replies: @Philo of Alexandria

  102. @Alexander Turok
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    White computer programmers lean Democrat as well. I'm a programmer myself and I think there is nothing intrinsic about our personalities that would attract us to the Left over the Right. But there is something intrinsic about our personalities which leads us to be uninterested in religion. And particularly the emotion-laden, anti-intellectual religion of American evangelical Protestantism. We might be attracted to Judaism or traditional Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy, with their emphasis on book-learning. But the whole "you gotta accept the grace of Jesus into your heart...," that just repels us. We're just not interested in feelings. We might accept a lot of crazy nonsense, but it's got to make the pretense of being based on "learning."

    If the American Right wants to win American computer programmers, politicians need to shut their traps about Jesus.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

    I’m a software engineer and in Silicon Valley itself there are still plenty of conservative white American software engineers (white American engineers being a fraction of the total) . They are certainly underrepresented at certain companies that focus on social media — and Apple. But without foreign workers the valley itself would be much more conservative. And the American software engineers I know in other parts of the country are definitely more conservative.

    So don’t speak about ‘we’ because you don’t know nearly as much as you think. And you speak about programmers and religion in an authoritative tone, yet get it completely wrong. What’s stunning is someone like Donald Knuth (of Stanford) literally wrote the greatest masterpiece ever on algorithms (in his own assembly code, to boot) and yet is a member of the First Lutheran Church in Palo Alto. He composes religious music in his spare time (which is a lot now). He’s quite happy to talk about his faith. About half of computer science professors in many surveys believe in God, and many of those a personal God (which would indicate evangelical tendencies).

    Lots of individual evangelical worshippers are too emotional for my taste. But there are plenty of apologetics books and seminars in the evangelical world. And since no one is compelled to sing or pray out loud, no one is being asked to do anything they don’t want to do. I certainly don’t.

    So conservative Americans don’t have to do anything to win many software engineers over, besides ensure most of them in the future are American born and bred.

  103. Anonymous[306] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    @Anonymous


    Jewish enrollment at elite colleges has collapsed in the past 15 years.
     
    I guess you hadn't read Ron Unz's The Myth of American Meritocracy. Jews make up over 20% of enrollment at all of the Ivy League, except at Princeton and Dartmouth where they are around 13%. Jews avoid those two schools because they are the most academically rigorous with the least grade inflation.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I’ve read it. His numbers are out of date.

    A better analysis would be that in spite of an Asian quota by predominantly Jewish university admins, it’s still not enough to keep the Jewish proportion from dropping like a stone.

    https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-vanishing-ivy-league-jew

    • Replies: @Philo of Alexandria
    @Anonymous

    Jews are still massively overrepresented at Ivy Leagues, and the Asian quota is a natural way to deal with the fact that Asian students are largely dead weight in Ivy League classes. The East Asian students can’t compete with European and Jewish students intellectually, even if you can’t ascertain that from test scores and grades. The real travesty at Ivy League schools is the de facto quota on European American admits. You could zero the East Asian population at those schools and lose nothing. Maybe one in ten of them will be intellectually comparable to a white or Jewish student. South Asians are not as bad.

  104. Tom Cotton is right.

    It’s absurd that American citizens are excluded from STEM programs at universities run by their own government to make room for and benefit foreigners.

    If universities were run completely separate from government, it would make sense to ignore nationality and citizenship distinctions.

    But that isn’t the case. Universities receive enormous financial support, also social status and privilege from our government. Universities that are largely funded and supported through government, should exist to serve citizens, and foreigners as a distinct second.

  105. anon[312] • Disclaimer says:
    @IHTG
    @Anon

    Cancelling DACA was never going to lead to insta-mass deportation all DACA migrants who were already in the US. The administration did stop handing out new DACA permits for a time, until the courts overturned it. They're waiting for a SCOTUS decision.

    Even before the virus, illegal immigration had already been brought down by the Return To Mexico agreement.

    The wall (big border fence) is being built.

    People need to pay less attention to Ann Coulter-type blackpillers and more to expert immigration restrictionist commentators who can give you a more balanced view.

    Replies: @peterike, @anon

    Even before the virus, illegal immigration had already been brought down by the Return To Mexico agreement.

    Illegal immigration soared to record or near-record highs for the first 3 years of Trump’s term. If it’s down now, it’s only due to the economy tanking. Trump, in his own words, also supports record legal immigration.

    The wall (big border fence) is being built.

    It isn’t. Most of what is being “built” is refurbished sections built under Bush. Only a few miles have been built elsewhere. At the current rate, it would take decades to complete, assuming the rest of the wall doesn’t deteriorate with time.

    People need to pay less attention to Ann Coulter-type blackpillers and more to expert immigration restrictionist commentators who can give you a more balanced view.

    People need to think for themselves and not blindly follow a conman who has lied about everything and accomplished nothing. Being “blackpilled” only means that you’re not dumb enough to believe everything you hear from Trump and his sycophants, most of whom get their information from shill websites.

    • Replies: @IHTG
    @anon


    Illegal immigration soared to record or near-record highs for the first 3 years of Trump’s term.
     
    This is simply not true. It temporarily soared in early 2019 due to a rush of false asylum seekers. The Remain In Mexico policy solved that.

    It isn’t. Most of what is being “built” is refurbished sections built under Bush.
     
    Right, vehicle barriers and barbed wire so pathetic they might as well have not been there.

    Being “blackpilled” only means that you’re not dumb enough to believe everything you hear from Trump and his sycophants
     
    No, I'm suggesting you listen to expert commentators such as Mark Krikorian who are by no means Trump fanboys.
  106. Tom Cotton – the Senator who looks like Al Bundy’s neighbor – has no problem with some other nation, not to be named, stealing our technology and bending us over a barrel.

  107. @Anonymous
    @Anon

    I've read it. His numbers are out of date.

    A better analysis would be that in spite of an Asian quota by predominantly Jewish university admins, it's still not enough to keep the Jewish proportion from dropping like a stone.

    https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/the-vanishing-ivy-league-jew

    Replies: @Philo of Alexandria

    Jews are still massively overrepresented at Ivy Leagues, and the Asian quota is a natural way to deal with the fact that Asian students are largely dead weight in Ivy League classes. The East Asian students can’t compete with European and Jewish students intellectually, even if you can’t ascertain that from test scores and grades. The real travesty at Ivy League schools is the de facto quota on European American admits. You could zero the East Asian population at those schools and lose nothing. Maybe one in ten of them will be intellectually comparable to a white or Jewish student. South Asians are not as bad.

  108. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @JosephB

    If you mean specifically science PhDs, then there are about 15,000 granted to foreigners every year. Some are sponsored by their own governments, but many are indeed paid for by American taxpayers. And many may indeed be better used here, after careful scrutiny.

    But I do think masters degrees and PhDs -- both being graduate degrees -- are lumped together far too much in an effort to deceive.

    Completing a masters degree in a science (or engineering) is not a scholarly achievement and certainly does not indicate high skill level or potential in a field. But it is used very extensively by many foreign students -- lots of Indians and Chinese -- to essentially buy the ability to work in the United States for three years after graduation through the OPT program. That type of thing should stop immediately, and Americans wouldn't be wasting money or losing anything by cancelling that program. Enrollment in many masters degree programs would decline precipitously, for some reason.

    Replies: @JosephB

    I was speaking to STEM PhDs, as those are almost always taxpayer funded. MS degrees are a mixed bag with respect to funding. I’ve been in departments that had ~100% of MS degrees funded by US taxpayers. Some programs are pure cash cows with all students paying tuition.

    I’m a bit more optimistic on MS degree recipients. I concur they are not at the same level as the PhD students I interact with. However, I see them as a net positive for the US. Certainly they are much brighter than the average local, and tend to have a strong work ethic. I don’t see many of them as having negative interactions with law enforcement either. I could be talked out of it, but am inclined to favor having a streamlined green card process for anyone with a STEM MS or PhD. For the MS, maybe restrict it to the top N schools in the US, or the top 1/3 of degree recipients.

    We could cancel OPT and make it hard for people to stay. That would certainly crush the enrollments at many MS programs. But…why is that a good thing? At present we’re getting money flowing into the US.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @JosephB

    I have worked with many foreign engineers with masters degrees from American universities. They are certainly not brighter than the average American with just a science or engineering bachelors.

    The money flowing into the US has people flowing in with it. People who are not American, yet will stay here and either replace an American, or cause the American not to be hired.

    From your response you seem to think that is a positive to this country. Is that correct?

    Replies: @JosephB

  109. @Chrisnonymous
    @stillCARealist

    I think it's more complicated than that.
    (1) When I was in high school, a number of my peers said they were going to engineering programs, but all switched majors after a semester or year. Why? They were unprepared for the math. Secondary school-level math education has to be improved.
    (2) Many universities make money from foreign students, who pay more--or just pay--than domestic students.
    (3) The jobs have to be there after graduation. No more competing with foreigners for positions or promotions.

    Replies: @stillCARealist

    Yes, I agree with all that.

    My bias is that 75% of the male population should be either a technician or an engineer of some sort. It may be higher. But the guys in school should be directed that way and let the truly bright ones become engineers and the rest installers, repairmen, and such support staff.

  110. @Anon
    Like the Soviets jettisoned many refuseniks in the 70’s can’t we unload some of our chosen to Beijing?

    Replies: @Daemon

    Feel free to unload them off the coast. Just dont expect anyone to pick them up.

  111. https://mobile.twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status/1265835825205407744

    Dear Professor,
    Here’s a meme you forgot in your neocon fever dream…

    Chinese student experiences American democracy…

    We haven’t seen that one around these parts for a while, huh?

  112. Senator Tom Cotton (which I don’t believe is a real name — it sounds like a more on-the-nose version of “Jim Crow”)

    LOL. Does Senator Cotton have any nephews or nieces? That would make him Uncle Tom Cotton.

    I haven’t paid too much attention to the man, but he actually sounds like the real deal.

  113. @Bucky
    Will Tom Cotton say anything about the blacks rioting in Minneapolis? Of course not.

    The Chinese are easy targets. Physically puny, quiet and reserved.

    You know what would fix those riots in Minneapolis? A big war with China. Then good whites can fight alongside their black brothers against the locust-like Chinese.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.), @Wilkey

    Will Tom Cotton say anything about the blacks rioting in Minneapolis? Of course not.

    Dude. Dude. Dude….

    How many times I gotta say it? A crucial part of Republican election strategy is not letting blacks get too worked up. Blacks staying away from the polls in 2016 is a big part of the reason Trump won.

    • Replies: @bucky
    @Wilkey

    well what happened there? Cotton says what he believes in. He's gotta be a real tard to keep repeating the bioweapons rumor.

  114. @JosephB
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    I was speaking to STEM PhDs, as those are almost always taxpayer funded. MS degrees are a mixed bag with respect to funding. I've been in departments that had ~100% of MS degrees funded by US taxpayers. Some programs are pure cash cows with all students paying tuition.

    I'm a bit more optimistic on MS degree recipients. I concur they are not at the same level as the PhD students I interact with. However, I see them as a net positive for the US. Certainly they are much brighter than the average local, and tend to have a strong work ethic. I don't see many of them as having negative interactions with law enforcement either. I could be talked out of it, but am inclined to favor having a streamlined green card process for anyone with a STEM MS or PhD. For the MS, maybe restrict it to the top N schools in the US, or the top 1/3 of degree recipients.

    We could cancel OPT and make it hard for people to stay. That would certainly crush the enrollments at many MS programs. But...why is that a good thing? At present we're getting money flowing into the US.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

    I have worked with many foreign engineers with masters degrees from American universities. They are certainly not brighter than the average American with just a science or engineering bachelors.

    The money flowing into the US has people flowing in with it. People who are not American, yet will stay here and either replace an American, or cause the American not to be hired.

    From your response you seem to think that is a positive to this country. Is that correct?

    • Replies: @JosephB
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    I think we're miscommunicating. By "average American" I mean averaging across the entire population -- not the subset of students who get a STEM degree. Those folks average much better on many dimensions than the average American. Foreign MS holders are decidedly brighter than the average American. As to whether they're brighter than undergrad STEM degree holders, that's a mixed bag. Most of my direct comparisons are undergrads taking grad courses. The undergrads tend to be sharper, but are an elite subsample of undergrads, so it's hard to compare. I'd be fine with keeping the top 1/3 of MS degree holders.

    As to whether that replaces American workers, that's trickier. Economies are not zero-sum games.
    If they were:
    1. We wouldn't bother trying to recruit more students to take STEM degrees. They'd just displace from a job someone else who would have gotten or already has the degree.

    2. *Any* immigration would hurt employment chances. As a thought experiment, imagine we could get everyone in the world who is mentally stable, non-criminal, and has an IQ over 130 to immigrate to the US. Do you think existing people in the US would be better or worse off? To me, it's obvious we'd be better off. Bringing in people who noticeably raise the average bar make things better for everyone.

    Having more bright, technical, people increases the rate of company formation and makes it easier for companies to grow.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

  115. @Dave Pinsen
    Someone (was it Anatoly Karlin?) suggested recently that China was insulated from Western academic poz because its leaders are never drawn from among the Western-educated. A Chinese princeling may study in the U.S., but he's not going to replace his father in the politburo.

    Replies: @Anatoly Karlin

    It was Duke of Qin:

    • Thanks: Dave Pinsen
  116. @Redman
    @Alfa158

    One of my close Jewish friends in college took the LSAT prep course with me at the Stanley Kaplan headquarters in midtown. He was quite wealthy and hired one of the Kaplan instructors as a private tutor on top of the general class. The tutor told him about the "trick" of determining which of the 2 reading comprehension tests was not graded (not sure why they did that at the time, but they would always have one test out of 4 which didn't count for your score).

    My friend used that trick to go back to the prior sections (logical reasoning and logic games) with the 45 extra minutes he gained by ignoring the fake reading comp test. He still scored below me and my other friends taking the test and thus scrapped going to law school.

    He wound up going into journalism and wrote a NYT bestselling book arguing for war in Iraq in 2003. One month after reaching #1 on the NYT bestseller list, we were at war with Iraq. All things being equal, journalists cause more harm than lawyers. Unless the lawyers become politicians.

    Replies: @Dacian Julien Soros

    Maybe his private tutor was a good salesman, and only pretended to know which of the two tests should be ignored. Your feeble minded friend solved the comprehension test that was not graded.

  117. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @JosephB

    I have worked with many foreign engineers with masters degrees from American universities. They are certainly not brighter than the average American with just a science or engineering bachelors.

    The money flowing into the US has people flowing in with it. People who are not American, yet will stay here and either replace an American, or cause the American not to be hired.

    From your response you seem to think that is a positive to this country. Is that correct?

    Replies: @JosephB

    I think we’re miscommunicating. By “average American” I mean averaging across the entire population — not the subset of students who get a STEM degree. Those folks average much better on many dimensions than the average American. Foreign MS holders are decidedly brighter than the average American. As to whether they’re brighter than undergrad STEM degree holders, that’s a mixed bag. Most of my direct comparisons are undergrads taking grad courses. The undergrads tend to be sharper, but are an elite subsample of undergrads, so it’s hard to compare. I’d be fine with keeping the top 1/3 of MS degree holders.

    As to whether that replaces American workers, that’s trickier. Economies are not zero-sum games.
    If they were:
    1. We wouldn’t bother trying to recruit more students to take STEM degrees. They’d just displace from a job someone else who would have gotten or already has the degree.

    2. *Any* immigration would hurt employment chances. As a thought experiment, imagine we could get everyone in the world who is mentally stable, non-criminal, and has an IQ over 130 to immigrate to the US. Do you think existing people in the US would be better or worse off? To me, it’s obvious we’d be better off. Bringing in people who noticeably raise the average bar make things better for everyone.

    Having more bright, technical, people increases the rate of company formation and makes it easier for companies to grow.

    • Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @JosephB

    It's not tricky at all. Silicon Valley engineering personnel are over 70 percent foreign born. That occurred because H-1Bs and OPT visa holders replaced American engineers, or were hired in their place. I am not libertarian. Zero-sum isn't an incantation that will miraculously make things all better in the labor market.

    I agree any immigration hurts employment chances here. Immigration should be drastically cut, or stopped, as we have enough people in the United States now.

    And, to be clear: we actually don't have a nation, but just an economy, correct? Because that is what you are absolutely implying with your thought experiment. If 3 percent of the world's population has an IQ over 130, that's roughly 275 million people.

    Just let them all come in and the lives of all current Americans would improve. You actually seriously think this?

  118. @XYZ (no Mr.)
    @Bucky

    Uh huh. I've been accused of being ignorant of China by the pro-China trolls, but only someone who had never met or worked with the Chinese would claim they are quiet or reserved. Many -- especially from mainland China -- have no issue telling me exactly what is wrong with my native land, and how Chinese culture is better, while enjoying well paid employment in my native land.

    And yes, the United States being dependent on China in multiple ways is a much more serious threat to the nation as a whole than looters at Target. In 6 months time, in a country of 325 million, another career criminal resisting arrest somewhere will finally get his ticket punched by some exasperated cops, and some other ghetto will riot, and most Americans won't care. And they shouldn't.

    Replies: @bucky

    Do you think Trump or Pence has ever met or worked with Chinese?

  119. @JosephB
    @XYZ (no Mr.)

    I think we're miscommunicating. By "average American" I mean averaging across the entire population -- not the subset of students who get a STEM degree. Those folks average much better on many dimensions than the average American. Foreign MS holders are decidedly brighter than the average American. As to whether they're brighter than undergrad STEM degree holders, that's a mixed bag. Most of my direct comparisons are undergrads taking grad courses. The undergrads tend to be sharper, but are an elite subsample of undergrads, so it's hard to compare. I'd be fine with keeping the top 1/3 of MS degree holders.

    As to whether that replaces American workers, that's trickier. Economies are not zero-sum games.
    If they were:
    1. We wouldn't bother trying to recruit more students to take STEM degrees. They'd just displace from a job someone else who would have gotten or already has the degree.

    2. *Any* immigration would hurt employment chances. As a thought experiment, imagine we could get everyone in the world who is mentally stable, non-criminal, and has an IQ over 130 to immigrate to the US. Do you think existing people in the US would be better or worse off? To me, it's obvious we'd be better off. Bringing in people who noticeably raise the average bar make things better for everyone.

    Having more bright, technical, people increases the rate of company formation and makes it easier for companies to grow.

    Replies: @XYZ (no Mr.)

    It’s not tricky at all. Silicon Valley engineering personnel are over 70 percent foreign born. That occurred because H-1Bs and OPT visa holders replaced American engineers, or were hired in their place. I am not libertarian. Zero-sum isn’t an incantation that will miraculously make things all better in the labor market.

    I agree any immigration hurts employment chances here. Immigration should be drastically cut, or stopped, as we have enough people in the United States now.

    And, to be clear: we actually don’t have a nation, but just an economy, correct? Because that is what you are absolutely implying with your thought experiment. If 3 percent of the world’s population has an IQ over 130, that’s roughly 275 million people.

    Just let them all come in and the lives of all current Americans would improve. You actually seriously think this?

  120. @anon
    @IHTG


    Even before the virus, illegal immigration had already been brought down by the Return To Mexico agreement.
     
    Illegal immigration soared to record or near-record highs for the first 3 years of Trump's term. If it's down now, it's only due to the economy tanking. Trump, in his own words, also supports record legal immigration.

    The wall (big border fence) is being built.
     
    It isn't. Most of what is being "built" is refurbished sections built under Bush. Only a few miles have been built elsewhere. At the current rate, it would take decades to complete, assuming the rest of the wall doesn't deteriorate with time.


    People need to pay less attention to Ann Coulter-type blackpillers and more to expert immigration restrictionist commentators who can give you a more balanced view.
     
    People need to think for themselves and not blindly follow a conman who has lied about everything and accomplished nothing. Being "blackpilled" only means that you're not dumb enough to believe everything you hear from Trump and his sycophants, most of whom get their information from shill websites.

    Replies: @IHTG

    Illegal immigration soared to record or near-record highs for the first 3 years of Trump’s term.

    This is simply not true. It temporarily soared in early 2019 due to a rush of false asylum seekers. The Remain In Mexico policy solved that.

    It isn’t. Most of what is being “built” is refurbished sections built under Bush.

    Right, vehicle barriers and barbed wire so pathetic they might as well have not been there.

    Being “blackpilled” only means that you’re not dumb enough to believe everything you hear from Trump and his sycophants

    No, I’m suggesting you listen to expert commentators such as Mark Krikorian who are by no means Trump fanboys.

  121. @Anonymous
    @Ganderson

    Why stop at law? Let's also let them study economics, sociology, psychology, political science, LGBTQ studies, women's studies, all the ethnic and regional studies, communications, journalism...

    In fact, how about we just send them our entire "social science" professoriate? Save them the trouble of coming over here.



    no Chinese tourists into America
     
    What have you got against tourists???
     
    They don't leave. 40% of illegals in the US are people who overstayed their visa. Obama gave the Chinese 10 year tourist visas(from 3 months), now many are living in the US on tourist visas, giving birth to anchor babies and sending their kids to our K-12 schools, for free.

    Replies: @Ganderson

    Agree- but that stuff was in its infancy back in the 70’s.

  122. @128
    @SFG

    Harbin Institute of Science and Technology is pretty OKish so they can just study there?

    Replies: @Deckin, @128, @Jim Don Bob

    I hear there are jobs in Wuhan.

  123. @Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
    Years ago, Rush Limbaugh made a similar proposal: that we should export to enemy countries like China our crippling social pathologies like feminism, political correctness, deconstructionism, intersectional studies, etc.

    Replies: @Drew, @SFG, @EldnahYm, @anon

    Did Rush include sending to enemy countries our
    crippling mouthers like Rush who direct/ed listeners
    to the inconsequential while avoiding important issues?

  124. @Wilkey
    @Bucky


    Will Tom Cotton say anything about the blacks rioting in Minneapolis? Of course not.
     
    Dude. Dude. Dude....

    How many times I gotta say it? A crucial part of Republican election strategy is not letting blacks get too worked up. Blacks staying away from the polls in 2016 is a big part of the reason Trump won.

    Replies: @bucky

    well what happened there? Cotton says what he believes in. He’s gotta be a real tard to keep repeating the bioweapons rumor.

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