The Unz Review • An Alternative Media Selection$
A Collection of Interesting, Important, and Controversial Perspectives Largely Excluded from the American Mainstream Media
 TeasersiSteve Blog
Washington Post: "Germany Is Refusing to Send Tanks to Ukraine. Biden Cannot Let This Stand."
Email This Page to Someone

 Remember My Information



=>

Bookmark Toggle AllToCAdd to LibraryRemove from Library • B
Show CommentNext New CommentNext New ReplyRead More
ReplyAgree/Disagree/Etc. More... This Commenter This Thread Hide Thread Display All Comments
AgreeDisagreeThanksLOLTroll
These buttons register your public Agreement, Disagreement, Thanks, LOL, or Troll with the selected comment. They are ONLY available to recent, frequent commenters who have saved their Name+Email using the 'Remember My Information' checkbox, and may also ONLY be used three times during any eight hour period.
Ignore Commenter Follow Commenter
Search Text Case Sensitive  Exact Words  Include Comments
List of Bookmarks

 
Hide 386 CommentsLeave a Comment
Commenters to Ignore...to FollowEndorsed Only
Trim Comments?
    []
  1. Daniel H says:

    Remember this? This was once valorized. Ha.

    You nailed it Steve, Who vs Whom is the name of the game.

  2. roonaldo says:

    This ain’t a movie, it’s bad reality. The movie dude abides, but the fix is in for the denouement of the bad reality president, whose masters are telling him–“You can hide, but you cannot run.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Observator
  3. @Daniel H

    That phrase was formulated over a century ago:

    Who, whom? (Russian: кто кого?, kto kogo?; Russian pronunciation: [kto.kɐˈvo]) is a Bolshevist principle or slogan which was formulated by Lenin in 1921.

  4. JimDandy says:

    Oh, what, all you Putin fanboys find it somehow unseemly that the Neocons want us to invade Germany, steal their tanks, and ship them all to Zelensky? Keep fawning, Putinists. Donbas uber alles!

  5. Dmon says:

    The Germans sent a whole bunch of tanks to the Ukraine in 1941. Did they ever get so much as a thank you note?

  6. Dave Pinsen says: • Website

    IIRC, the Germans said they’d consider sending tanks if the U.S. sent its Abrams tanks, which the U.S. government said wasn’t a good idea because they were gas guzzlers because of their turbine engines.

    But I suspect the Germans are just being prudent.

  7. “Why isn’t Steiner advancing on Donetzk per my orders!!??

    • Thanks: Paul Jolliffe
  8. We really need to declare war on WaPo, before it kills more Americans. Or draft everyone there to be the first boots on the ground if war begins with Russia.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
  9. Mr. Anon says:

    We simply cannot allow Germany to NOT send tanks to Ukraine. Germany must open an eastern front to secure Lebensraum for the liberal rules-based order, and to protect Europe from slavic barbarism.

    It could be called “Operation Barbarossa”.

    • Agree: Paul Jolliffe
    • LOL: Ron Mexico
  10. So, where do you, Steve, stand on this, man, considering your propaganda push against what you call “Putin’s War of Annexation?”

    Wouldn’t it help us weaken China in the long run if Germany sends its tanks against Russia, China’s gas station? Isn’t that part of the big plan?

    I mean, I’m all for that if you can make it work, because China is our real competition, so more power to you and your friends.

  11. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    The Poles are very eager to send their Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, but needs German permission due to an export agreement with Germany. Poles won’t need the Leopard 2 tanks, because they are getting the South Korean-made K2 Black Panther tanks: https://www.reuters.com/world/south-korea-poland-sign-58-billion-tank-howitzer-contract-2022-08-27/

    ROK Army was to take delivery of 180 units of the K2 Black Panther tanks, but instead they are being diverted to Poland, pronto. (South Korea is also exports the K2 and its IP/licensing to Turkey, which also possesses a sizable fleet of Leopard 2’s.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K2_Black_Panther

    The German government said that it wouldn’t send tanks unless other Western countries did, but then still demurred after Britain announced it would send its Challenger 2 tanks (only 12 though). I would think, sooner or later, Ukraine will receive Leopard 2 tanks, most likely from Poland.

    If Ukraine were able to cobble together about 200-300 Western tanks plus the several hundred promised Bradley’s, Marder’s, and Stryker’s, it’s going to be able to field at least a division-sized mechanized force that would be a substantial threat to the Russians. The Ukrainians have been fighting very infantry-heavy up to now and that puts a severe constraint on its ability to exploit any breaches in the Russian defensive line. Or to conduct a mobile defense against any Russian spring offensive. There is currently a plan in motion to train the Ukrainian crews quickly for large scale mobile operations, expected to be completed by late spring, early summer.

  12. Twinkie says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    your propaganda push against what you call “Putin’s War of Annexation?”

    It’s not propaganda. Annexation by force of arms has been illegal under international law since World War II. And for a good reason. Such an action is extremely destabilizing for the international order and dramatically increases the likelihood of large scale military conflicts.

    If Russia had been able to blitz the Ukrainians and topple Kiev, it would have greatly emboldened the Chinese to launch a takeover attempt of Taiwan.

    I was mildly pro-Putin prior to this war, but I am now (also mildly) pro-Ukraine in this war, because I consider the use of arms to change international borders by a major country to be highly antithetical to the global stability. It has to be repulsed. Punished, even.

  13. @Twinkie

    Yes, better to eat away at a nation and weaken it by infiltrating and infecting its neighbors and turning them against it.

    As much as I admire Steve, I am certain he understands and supports this because he thinks it is part of a larger, longer-term strategy that is to the advantage of Americans.

    He might be right.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  14. @Buzz Mohawk

    The long-term strategy involves weakening or breaking Russia and bringing it under Western control, like a horse you can now ride. This will enable “our” side to control China’s access to Russian resources, including oil and gas. This will give “us” leverage over our real competition, China.

    I am all in favor of that if it can work, but only because it is necessary, not because it is right.

  15. Dumbo says:
    @Twinkie

    Yes, let’s start WWIII for a bunch of corrupt assholes in Hoholand. And let’s send them a few billion more for “reconstruction” (supervised by BlackRock), and 10% for the Big Guy. And let’s make Germany also part of this war, while we stoke the Chinese too. That’s great for U.S. globohomo domination, sorry, I meant, “global stability”…

  16. Dumbo says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Who’s ” our” and “us”? You might be surprised to find out that the interests of the U.S. government do not align with the ones of its citizens, especially those of a lighter hue, and you will be treated no better than Ukrainians or Palestinians in the long run. Sailer is (as usual) wrong and Anglin is right — anything that weakens the U.S. Empire is good for whites.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    , @Buzz Mohawk
  17. @Buzz Mohawk

    Wouldn’t it help us weaken China

    China is our real competition

    Who is the “us” and the “we” in this scenario? It’s not white Americans. It’s not even any resident of the USA Thingie, not even a random Honduran who trudges across the Rio Grande. So why should any legitimate American citizen care?

    I don’t want Americans suckered into “pulling together” to fight some external enemy our Fake Elites put up. No thanks. Not ever again in our lifetime.

  18. Abe says:
    @Twinkie

    because I consider the use of arms to change international borders

    Now do this for the state actor that used arms to change the international borders of Kosovo, Iraq, Syria, Libya…

    • Agree: al gore rhythms
  19. @Buzz Mohawk

    “I am all in favor of that if it can work, but only because it is necessary, not because it is right.”

    Wow, there are so many assumptions behind what you have asserted. I can’t believe you don’t think you need to clarify those statements.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  20. Alfa158 says:
    @Dmon

    1939; Germany sends tanks into Poland. Poland, Britain and France declare war on Germany.
    2023; Germany refuses to send tanks to Poland. Poland, Britain, France and the US declare war on Germany .

    • LOL: Hibernian
    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    , @Muggles
  21. Renard says:
    @Twinkie

    It’s not propaganda. Annexation by force of arms has been illegal under international law since World War II. And for a good reason. Such an action is extremely destabilizing for the international order and dramatically increases the likelihood of large scale military conflicts.

    Did you forget about Israel? Remind me about when we sent tanks to defend Israel’s neighbors.

    When Bush issued his “This will not stand” threat, Israel was occupying land belonging to (or formerly belonging to) every single one of its neighbors. Not a peep from anyone in the US about this abject hypocrisy.

    • Replies: @International Jew
  22. Someone needs to bomb the Nord Stream pipelines again. Make that underwater rubble bounce.

    There are probably think-tankers in Washington regretting that those pipelines failed to instill enough shock & awe in the Germans and are now trying to think of something else to destroy to smack some sense into their NATO ally.

    • Replies: @Monika92gti
  23. SafeNow says:
    @Twinkie

    There is currently a plan in motion to train the Ukrainian crews quickly

    Yes, in Poland, plus Ukrainians have just arrived in the UK to learn British tanks. The problem is, learning to be a tank Commander quickly is a little like learning to be a dentist quickly would be. In the U.S., quick research tells me, the tank course is 22 weeks, usually at Fort Benning Georgia. I think that the US pro-tank people are hesitant to countenance this factor.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @BB753
    , @Hibernian
  24. @Twinkie

    All this misses the point – of course the Poles in theory need a reexport license;
    but in reality the Germans can do nothing to keep their Beloved-Allies ™ -that-
    dwelleth-in-East-Germany from donating their Leppards except voiding the warranty.
    But this is not what the Polacks want: They want the Germans to disarm,
    by any means necessary.
    This is promising to be fun 😀

  25. Anonymous[397] • Disclaimer says:

    Yep.

    This is the same Washington Post that strived, might and main, to undermine the US effort in South Vietnam, loudly and pompously screamed it’s ‘love’ of peace, and practically politically assassinated Nixon – and basked in the self created glory of doing so – largely because it hated Nixon’s aggression in Vietnam.

    • Thanks: Redneck farmer
  26. Old Prude says:
    @Twinkie

    Anything going on to affect a ceasefire or negotiate an end to the killing?

    Buehler?

    Buehler?

  27. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Twinkie

    It’s not propaganda. Annexation by force of arms has been illegal under international law since World War II. And for a good reason. Such an action is extremely destabilizing for the international order and dramatically increases the likelihood of large scale military conflicts.

    Is it legal to occupy part of a sovereign country and let your local allies steal its oil? Because that’s what the U.S. is doing in Syria right now.

    Similarly, wasn’t it “extremely destabilizing” for us to topple Gaddafi in Libya?

    If you want to argue that a proxy war with Russia over the Ukraine is in U.S. interests, feel free, but clearly the U.S. government isn’t motivated by a Platonic adherence to international law and preserving stability.

    If Russia had been able to blitz the Ukrainians and topple Kiev, it would have greatly emboldened the Chinese to launch a takeover attempt of Taiwan.

    China and Taiwan have had a mutually prosperous, peaceful relationship for decades. The country provoking China on Taiwan isn’t Russia, but the U.S. Again, if we cared about international law and global stability we wouldn’t be doing that, because according to international law, Taiwan is part of China, and the status quo there has been stable for decades.

    I was mildly pro-Putin prior to this war, but I am now (also mildly) pro-Ukraine in this war, because I consider the use of arms to change international borders by a major country to be highly antithetical to the global stability. It has to be repulsed. Punished, even.

    Who should punish us for what we’ve done in Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc.?

    • Replies: @Pixo
    , @RSDB
    , @Twinkie
  28. Dave Pinsen says: • Website
    @Buzz Mohawk

    The long-term strategy involves weakening or breaking Russia and bringing it under Western control, like a horse you can now ride. This will enable “our” side to control China’s access to Russian resources, including oil and gas. This will give “us” leverage over our real competition, China.

    I think the strategy, if we can call it that, was to make Russia the “shoot the cuffs” war to intimidate China. That was Dennis Miller’s description of the Iraq War, btw, that it would similarly intimidate North Korea. Of course, it didn’t quite work out that way.

    Whatever you think of Putin, his statement that the world is tending toward multipolarity seems obviously true. With the rise of China (abetted by the neoliberal deindustrialization of America) and other populous countries, the time of the U.S. unilaterally dictating the rules of the “rules-based international order” is finite.

    We could have acknowledged this, and attempted to transition to multipolarity in a way that would best benefit America, but instead we are throwing the kitchen sink at Russia to defend the status quo. The risk of that is, if it fails, it will accelerate the decline of American hegemony. The other risk is, if it succeeds, it could lead to nuclear war with Russia.

    • Replies: @anon
  29. G. Poulin says:
    @Twinkie

    If there is one thing crying out to heaven to be destabilized (punished, even), it’s the current rules-based international order –otherwise known as the “globohomo”.

  30. tyrone says:
    @Twinkie

    It’s not propaganda. Annexation by force of arms has been illegal under international law since World War II

    …….If you feel like a lot of people are giving you a funny look right now , it’s Serbia.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  31. @Dave Pinsen

    TIL that providing fuel is hard while stockpiling spare-parts for maintenance is not.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  32. Or, it could be that this is all being set up to blame Germany for the coming defeat. “Germany didn’t send their tanks!” will be the rallying cry as to why Ukraine was lost. The US can’t afford to take the blame after the Afghanistan debacle.

  33. @nokangaroos

    ” not what the Polacks want: They want the Germans to disarm”

    this is based on…… what?

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  34. Bill P says:

    NY Times sees the writing on the wall and begs Russian liberals to put pressure on Putin:

    https://dnyuz.com/2023/01/21/a-brutal-new-phase-of-the-war-in-ukraine/

    In the editorial, the Times says Russians are not “pure” due to the “sin” of homophobia, and calls the patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church “deplorable.”

    OK, I want to know what God they worship at the NY Times. What God calls aversion to sodomy a “sin?” Can they spell it out for us? I mean, purity and sinfulness are spiritual concepts, so there ought to be some dogma, some scripture – something – that can provide us with some clarity about their values and beliefs.

    I sympathize deeply with the Ukrainian people. The Ukrainians I know here are good Christians, hardworking and good neighbors. I’m sure most of the men dying on the front are like them. It’s a horrible tragedy, especially when I consider that the scum using them as cannon fodder in their imperialist project certainly view them as impure sinners for their Christian beliefs.

    I think Francis was right in calling the Ukrainians martyrs. If justice exists they must be, or else all this dying is in vain.

  35. Thoughts says:
    @Bill P

    Russia has to win for the safety of the world. Russia and China plus the Middle East must stop the creation of Greater Israel.

    That’s what this is all about. Once Russia and China are taken care of, the Jews will have impunity to slaughter millions of Muslims and annex chunks of Egypt, Iraq, Syria and Iran.

    Notice how Steve never talks about the Palestinians.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Reg Cæsar
  36. @Fluesterwitz

    I suspect that having your tanks in a war where they can get destroyed is bad for the tank selling business (even though that’s true of any tank versus a peer adversary).

  37. BB753 says:
    @SafeNow

    Learning how to man a tank, how to maintain the engine and thousands of moving pieces and how to operate its weapons takes 9 months. Not to mention the impossible logistics of fielding 5 different vehicles and who knows how many weapon systems. By that time, there won’t be a single Ukrainian serviceman under age 55 left in the Ukrainian armed forces, at current rates of attrition.

  38. BB753 says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    It’s also bad marketing if they turn out to be inadequate or duds, as is the case with the Leopard, Abrams, etc..

  39. Pixo says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Your stream of tu quoques about American foreign policy failures is not a defense of Putin’s disastrous invasion of Ukraine.

    Though I do accept the idea invading Ukraine is as stupid as invading Iraq.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
    , @Mike Tre
  40. At the start of the war the Ukrainian army had 2500 tanks, mainly T-72, since the war started other countries in Europe sent them more soviet tanks, again mainly T-72

    So the Ukraine doesn’t actually need 200 Leopard Tanks from Germany, Poland ect, this is a trap to fool the Russians into thinking the Ukraine is weak. its the same with the Patriot missile system, its not really needed, the S300 system the Ukraine uses is better. just another scam to fool the dumb Russians. Very clever

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzLtF_PxbYw

  41. anon[507] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    Korea is selling Poland new tanks as well as new fighter jets. Japan could have used Toyota way (quality program) tactics to defenestrate the US defense industry, sept they were still soft pedaling the defense implications of their auto exports. Plus residual sensitivity regarding Pearl Harbor.

    But Korea can produce Hyundai/Kia export hardware to countries on a budget.

    The K2 Black Panther tank is made by Hyundai Rotem (064350.KS). The FA-50 fighter jet is produced by Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) (047810.KS).

    Throw in a 100k powertrain warranty.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  42. @Renard

    Israel’s conquests are analogous to Russia’s control of Königsberg/Kaliningrad.

  43. @Alfa158

    How about Secretary of State Blinken declares war . . . on himself!

    Was all the talk about the Germans sending tanks to Ukraine started without, like, first talking to the Germans?

    Didn’t we do a reading of this same script last year on the subject of sending former East German MiGs?

    It seems this aspiring rock guitarist ought to quit his day job.

  44. One Norwegian has summed this up fine.

    https://qr.ae/prHN2j

    Q: Why is Germany looking like it won’t allow other countries to send Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine?

    A:
    Germany’s Chancellor, Olaf Scholz, is under a lot of pressure at home to not let other countries send those tanks, and a lot of that pressure comes from his own political party – The Social Democratic Party.

    There are some influential factions and people in Germany who have different reasons for being hesitant on sending tanks. The three main reasons for why they’re dragging their feet on this issue are:

    They do not wish an escalation of this conflict. More specifically, they don’t wish to see NATO get dragged into a direct confrontation with Russia. They don’t want to be responsible for such a scenario, so they want other countries, the US in particular, to send their Abrams first as that would make Germany less responsible for any escalation such a transfer might lead to.
    There are forces in German politics that seem to take a more pacifistic approach to the Russo-Ukraine war, expressing a desire to negotiate with the Russians rather than help Ukraine defeat them militarily.
    There are also those that maintain that an inclusion of Russia is the only path to creating a stable and lasting peace between Europe and Russia. “Change through reapprochement” has long defined the Social Democratic Party’s approach to their “Ostpolitik” (eastern policy), an approach that is more or less the child of German politicians such as Egon Bahr, Gerhard Schröder (who served as Chancellor from 98´to 05´) and Willy Brandt. All prominent leaders in Germany, and more importantly: leaders within Scholz’ political party. The logic of their eastern policy rests on the assumption that economic openness would lead to political and social openings. In other words; that economic integration would lead to peace.

    The result of Scholz being dragged between these different factions is that he’s seen as incredibly indecisive when navigating Germany through this conflict.

    Because of this we now have a new word: “Scholzing”, meaning slow-rolling promises and dithering.

    This indecisiveness is now about to cause more harm to Germany than it would if they just sent the tanks. Germany has long expressed a wish to take a stronger leadership role in Europe, but if they want that then they need to start acting like they’re capable of it. However, there are forces in Germany that strongly disagree with all of these factions, such as the Green Party that are pushing for these tanks to be sent. As are leaders in the Free Democratic Party and Christian Democrats.

    The way 2022 has gone, a lot of power and influence in the EU has shifted eastwards, towards Poland in particular, but also Ukraine (obviously), as well as Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia. The UK has regained a LOT of prestige and influence as well. Personally, I think it is time for Germany to revise its Ostpolitik. Russia will fail in Ukraine and they will be defeated – with or without Germany’s help. The only difference is how long it will take and how many more Ukrainians will have to die before it is all over. Every day Germany fails to take leadership, they lose influence and power. The current foreign policy of Scholz is NOT in Germany’s short- or long term interest, he needs to greenlight the transfer of these tanks ASAP. NATO is holding a meeting on Friday, the 20th of January. That could be his last chance to do it and save face.

    Edit 20.01.2023:

    The Ramstein meeting is now over and Germany still refuses to give their approval for the transfer of German tanks to Ukraine. Not the result I was hoping for. They might approve this later, but they really ought to do this before other countries start taking the matter into their own hands.

    Poland has already said they might be willing to transfer these tanks even without Germany’s approval. If they do that then Germany will only appear as a paralyzed Russia appeaser, something the EU – and NATO in particular – has very little need for in times like these.

  45. anon[507] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    The US had enormous advantages as a superpower circa 1990 and considerable optionality regarding how to best employ those advantages.
    Meanwhile our national security elites were allowed to follow their siloed, institutional imperatives. They were incentivized to expand and grow with based on a bias toward the military and defense vs soft power and economic strength.

    Iraq was optional. Afghanistan was optional. And promoting liberal democracy abroad with military intervention weakened it in the US.

    And expanding NATO. It was a great success until expansion. So without sufficient pushback, expansion became irresistible. Despite warnings from Cold War veterans like George Kennan.

    The US still has more optionality and power than it seems to realize. It just doesn’t possess the strength to possess global hegemony.

  46. @International Jew

    This must be a joke or irony.

    Israel’s “conquests” are basically self-defensive moves to preserve Israel from complete annihilation. Furthermore, virtually all these lands are historically Jewish.

    As far as Koenigsberg goes- this, along with much of Silesia & east Prussia is the Ur-German land; Koenigsberg as “Kaliningrad” is nothing more than an example of Soviet Russian imperialism. Russia proper could exist fine with Koenigsberg having remained German.

  47. @Bill P

    “OK, I want to know what God they worship at the NY Times”
    They worship the pagan Rainbow god, as do those who control almost every institution, corporation, and government in (what used to be called) The West.

  48. @Twinkie

    Annexation by force of arms has been illegal under international law since World War II.

    Let’s file a lawsuit and get an injunction. Problem solved.

    But if I were the Russians, I’d hire whatever law firm the U.S. and Israel have been using for their invasions.

    • Thanks: Renard
    • LOL: Gordo, Mike Tre
  49. xyzxy says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    This will enable “our” side to control China’s access to Russian resources…

    The above thinking typifies America’s ‘my way or the highway’ foreign policy. But things have changed. International relations and economics are no longer a US dictated ‘rules based’ zero-sum game.

    However, if that was/is supposed to be the goal (i.e. triangulating China against Russia in order to benefit the US), it is clear that our neocon oriented foreign policy has been a complete disaster. Through total mismanagement, Russia and China are back together again.

    Say what you will about Kissinger, he’s the man responsible for creating a Russian/Chinese balancing act, and by comparison (and in spite of his recent Davos turn around) makes the Blinken gang look like buffoons.

    How did it turn out this way? How could it get screwed up so badly? Since the fall of the Soviet Union, the Rootless Cosmopolitans just couldn’t help themselves–looting like blacks during a riot. They didn’t count on new sheriffs in the territories, and in return they got Putin and Xi, both committed to establishing a more equitable law and order.

  50. Jack D says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    NATO may not exist in 10 years,

    Putin PROBABLY won’t exist in 10 years. Anyone want to take best as to whether NATO outlasts Putin?

  51. @Bill P

    That NYT Op-ed is a must-read, but only because it’s such a pure distillation of neo-con war propaganda. For example, this nugget:

    On Jan. 14, a Russian missile struck an apartment building in Dnipro, in central Ukraine. Among the at least 40 dead were small children, a pregnant woman and a 15-year-old dancer.

    Never mind that the Ukrainians admitted it was one of their own air defense missiles that hit the building. (The guy who admitted it got fired Pronto, though).

    Meanwhile, over at Foreign Policy, the high-minded debate is whether we should be satisfied only with Ukraine reconquering Crimea or if we need to take out Putin and break up Russia as our war aims.

    In the real world, Ukraine is circling the drain and will be lucky if it holds Kiev in 6 Mos. But reality is just not an issue for Team Neocon. It’s kind of impressive, actually.

  52. Jack D says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Russia doesn’t have to be a horse that America can ride but it can’t be a wolf that attacks the other horses either. Twinkie had it right – the use of arms to change international borders by a major country is highly antithetical to the global stability and Putin violated that principle and THIS CANNOT STAND just as Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait could not stand.

    To do otherwise opens the door to a new age of global warfare. Europe was destroyed by two world wars. European civilization will never recover. Whatever injustice existed by, for example, having Russian speakers living in the “wrong” country, pales next to the suffering of war. The game is not worth the candle and anyone who tries to even start such a game needs to be smacked down.

  53. Wokechoke says:
    @Dmon

    Manstein’s ghost…is laughing.

  54. Wokechoke says:
    @Jack D

    Iraq could have kept Kuwait. Saddam has to be removed to secure the newly established Israel.

    • Replies: @BB753
  55. Jack D says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    it was one of their own air defense missiles that hit the building.

    First of all, this is false – just the usual Russian disinformation and distortion. Whenever a civilian target has been hit in Ukraine, somehow it is never really Russia’s fault. The Ukrainians blew it up, every time. If once in a while the Russians would admit that ok, one of our missiles went wrong, then maybe you could believe them. But EVERY TIME?

    BUT, even if it was true, this is still on the Russians. Why are the Ukrainians firing air defense missiles? Funny that before last February, they never blew up their own apartment buildings.

  56. @Jack D

    Funny that before last February, they never blew up their own apartment buildings.

    Tell that to Donbas. The Ukrainians also had a problem with Malaysian airliners.

  57. @Twinkie

    Glad to see you’re staying on message. With near-perfect synchrony, all the previous Kovid Karens have become the Ukrainiacs. All the feds are in one basket.

    The siren song of Ukraine had drawn in all the lying liars on the forum and made them servants to its will, despite them having every opportunity to avoid it.

    • Replies: @Thomm
  58. @Dave Pinsen

    But I suspect the Germans are just being prudent.

    If the German leadership wants to be prudent, they should get nukes. Which is true for South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Iran … really a lot of countries.

    There are some quickie specific lessons from this debacle:
    — Putin is rash. (Certainly more rash, dumber and less calculating than I thought.)
    — Russia still doesn’t have its act together.
    — Western weapons are still superior.

    But the big lesson here is that all the happy dappy of the American post-45, post-90, post-imperial order of recognized borders, international “law”, free trade … blah, blah, blah, is just that talk.

    Putin could just zip into Ukraine, try to get it to fold up like a cheap suit and grab whatever he wanted, because Ukraine does not have nukes and ergo poses basically zero threat to a much larger Russia.

    Russia can not dictate to Britain or France or the US because those nations have nukes. Russia can lay waste to them, but then Russian civilization would also cease to exist. But Germany, all these other NATO countries are really dependent upon the credibility of the US nuclear umbrella.

    Of course, the German state is not even doing the most essential basic of keeping the barbarians out of Germany. So all questions of “nukes” and “self-defense” is pretty much a side show, as there won’t even be a recognizable–German–Germany in 100 years.

  59. @Jack D

    Careful what you wish for. Compared to his potential successors, Putin is a moderate.

    But I agree that odds are very high that NATO will be around in 10 years. Now, whether anyone outside of US and Europe will care about NATO is a different question.

    A successful Russia integrated into the economies of the East and South with eastern Ukraine as a buffer and a demiliterized, neutral western Ukraine won’t feel very threatened.

  60. @Jack D

    I am writing cynically and sarcastically about something I’m not very interested in.

    What stands is my sarcasm in this part of my reply to Twinkie:

    Yes, better to eat away at a nation and weaken it by infiltrating and infecting its neighbors and turning them against it.

    All your posturing about global stability doesn’t justify that little thing “our side” did and does. Or is it better to kill someone with a thousand cuts instead of just going up and bashing them? Does our method make us better?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  61. @Dumbo

    and you will be treated no better than Ukrainians or Palestinians…

    or Copts or Armenians or Smyrniote Greeks…

    in the long run…

    Any progress since 1453?

  62. @Unintended Consequence

    I am writing cynically about things I neither know much about nor have much interest in. It’s all dirty, so my attitude, especially after that bottle of champagne last night, is “fuck it.” Fuck it because people always fuck things up. They had a chance after the fall of the Soviet Union, and they not only blew it, they deliberately acted like thieves and thugs. So “history,” in all its toy soldier, bloody glory, will continue. We just have to live in it.

  63. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @roonaldo

    The movie dude abides, but the fix is in for the denouement of the bad reality president, whose masters are telling him–“You can hide, but you cannot run.”

    What does this even mean?

    • Replies: @roonaldo
  64. @International Jew

    Look, I don’t care if Israel takes all of its neighbors land, but don’t feed me BS about it being moral to do so. Like any nation, Israel deserves the land that it can conquer and hold.

    Israel is no better or worse than any other nation.

    • Replies: @Yahya
    , @International Jew
  65. Anonymous[156] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I mean, I’m all for that if you can make it work, because China is our real competition, so more power to you and your friends.

    If China is our real competition, America should be acting to strengthen Russia and ally with Russia.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk, Dutch Boy
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  66. @Dumbo

    You might be surprised to find out that the interests of the U.S. government do not align with the ones of its citizens, especially those of a lighter hue…

    Uh, gee, ya don’t say?

    You’re right, but anything that weakens China is good. Others may disagree with me on this, but who cares: I don’t even know what I’m talking about, right?

    • Replies: @Dumbo
    , @Mike Tre
  67. @Twinkie

    What makes the world’s current borders so sacred?

    Borders have always changed with the rise and fall of nations. Today is no different. You and Steve sound ridiculous with your claims that these are the perfect borders and thus should never change until the earth is no more.

  68. @roonaldo

    That was the most bizarre incongruity in the film: the Dude who claimed he’d helped write the SDS Port Huron Statement would not be quoting George CIA Bush regardless of how many funny cigarettes he’d smoked over the decades afterward.

  69. @AnotherDad

    Everyone assumes nuclear weapons have to be used the way Harry Truman did, directly on women and children at home. (And, in the case of Nagasaki, directly on Christian cathedrals.) No limited, more humane strategy of employing them is ever suggested, at least in the mainstream. Perhaps in obscure military publications.

    They are even designed this way. Where are the mini-nukes, that could take out a military installation but not the city nearby?

    Even the matter of lingering radiation has its analogs in unexploded ordnance and landmines. So it’s not that different from “conventional” bombing.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Farenheit
  70. Anon[158] • Disclaimer says:
    @Twinkie

    Annexation by force of arms has been illegal under international law since World War II.

    If that were true, the United States wouldn’t have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, and wouldn’t be bankrolling the jewish takeover of Palestine.

    • Replies: @HA
  71. Anon[158] • Disclaimer says:
    @International Jew

    Israel’s conquests are analogous to Russia’s control of Königsberg/Kaliningrad.

    How?

  72. @AnotherDad

    There are some quickie specific lessons from this debacle:
    — Putin is rash. (Certainly more rash, dumber and less calculating than I thought.)
    — Russia still doesn’t have its act together.
    — Western weapons are still superior.

    Sorry, I’ve been devoting my attention to the war in Ukraine. What war are you watching?

  73. @Pixo

    Dave is responding to Twinkie’s moral/legal argument by pointing out that the US long ago gave up any moral/legal leg to stand on.

    Like other commenters, I am open to a realpolitik argument that the Biden administration’s actions somehow make sense, but all attempts to craft such a realpolitik explanation have been kind of … vague, before reverting suspiciously quickly to making the same old void moral/legal arguments.

    • Agree: AndrewR
    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Pixo
  74. @Jack D

    “The game is not worth the candle and anyone who tries to even start such a game needs to be smacked down.”

    I knew you were a little odd, Jack, but this “candle” of yours gives us a glimpse into your private little world. I guess in your personal Jackverse all the ambiguity about borders that has characterized the real world since at least WWI doesn’t exist. In the world the rest of us live in, I’ve even heard that the borders imposed on the middle east have been a constant source of turmoil that includes ethnic cleansing. Your suggestion that borders arbitrarily imposed by foreigners are redlines for retaliation as opposed to issues for negotiation (not necessarily involving the West) speaks volumes about your lack of maturity. Could it be the candle illuminating your mind is growing dim?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  75. Anonymous[275] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    In the real world, Ukraine is circling the drain and will be lucky if it holds Kiev in 6 Mos.

    Really? What are you seeing that makes you think that?

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  76. @Buzz Mohawk

    It’s all dirty, so my attitude, especially after that bottle of champagne last night, is “🫂 it.” 🫂 it because people always 🫂 things up.

    https://www.unz.com/article/on-jewish-vulgarity/

  77. Jack D says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    something I’m not very interested in.

    Trotsky (or somebody – attribution of quotes is a sticky subject) said, “You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.”

    Depending on what day of the week it is and whether it suits them that day, Putin himself and his spokeszombies will tell you that this war is not just some border dispute between two countries, neither of which is the USA, but is being fought precisely to knock America down a notch or two.

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  78. @Buzz Mohawk

    ‘It’s all dirty, so my attitude, especially after that bottle of champagne last night, is “fuck it.” Fuck it because people always fuck things up.”

    Ha, I thought it might be something like that. Now you have to face a shitstorm while nursing a hangover. I guess that’s better than waking up in your car parked on your front lawn.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
  79. Jack D says:
    @Almost Missouri

    the US long ago gave up any moral/legal leg to stand on.

    Says who? “But you are lynching Negroes” was a favorite Soviet line. But-what-about-ism is a favorite tactic of dictators. Why don’t Americans compare themselves to Russian standards but only vice versa? If only the perfect could judge others, we would have to open all the prisons. That’s not how it works.

    But-what-about-ism is based on a false premise that the worst that the West has done is something to aspire to, when the true moral standard is to always strive to be better than others, not equally bad or worse. If someone has done wrong, condemn it, don’t copy it. This is what we tell our six-year-olds and it’s true everywhere.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  80. Dumbo says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I don’t even know what I’m talking about, right?

    Hmm… Apparently not. :-/ You seem a bit confused. Who cares about China!

  81. Gordo says:
    @Twinkie

    It’s not propaganda. Annexation by force of arms has been illegal under international law since World War II.

    Except when NATO does it like siezing a province of Serbia.

  82. Gordo says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Russia asked to join NATO in 2002, they were rebuffed.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
  83. Jack D says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Shh. Don’t give Putin any ideas. Seriously, of course battlefield nuclear weapons exist but thank goodness, everyone has been afraid to use them because no one wants to open Pandora’s Box of escalation.

    The history of warfare is that once a (perhaps previously unknown or unthinkable) weapon gets used against the other side, the other side will retaliate with even greater use of that weapon and you then go into a downward spiral where more and more use is made. The first German bombing runs on the UK were intended for military targets but some ended up hitting civilian areas and this pissed off the British who retaliated by bombing Berlin and so on until by the end of the war large parts of London and pretty much all of Berlin was a smoking ruin. In WWII this took 6 years but in a nuclear exchange it might proceed much faster.

    So it’s a good thing that battlefield nukes have not been employed. Yes, theoretically an explosive is an explosive but the taboo on the use of nukes is a good thing and should be maintained. Putin has so far wisely chosen to maintain the taboo and has even quit murmuring about the use of nukes. Rumor has it that the US sent him a message not to try that or he would regret it and supposedly the message got thru.

    This whole thing with the tanks is part of an effort on the part of the US, Germany and Russia NOT to start WWIII because unless you are nuts you really don’t want to start WWIII. Not only did the US warn Putin about nukes, but it has also limited what weapons are provided to the Ukrainians. People who are not nuts remember how WWI started and how we are still living with the consequences of that war and do not want to repeat the exercise of turning a regional conflict into another world war.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
  84. Old Prude says:
    @Jack D

    If you keep jabbing a dog with a stick, and the dog bites you, THAT CANNOT STAND. Put that bitch down!

  85. @Dave Pinsen

    NATO may not exist in 10 years

    Dave, I didn’t see this until Jack’s comment.

    But it’s kind of weird thing to say. NATO has been revivified by Putin. NATO was basically just a “last war” bureaucracy lumbering on in the way that bureaucratic parasites always do. (Who wants to actually work for a living?)

    But Putin pissing all over the 1991 post-Soviet borders has given NATO a real purpose and new life. Now even Cold War neutrals like Sweden and Finland are–rightly–applying to join up.

    Fortunately–my read, which could be wrong–I think this whole debacle is Putin’s. His Czar wannabe obsession. I don’t see the Russian deep state being particularly excited by the whole thing. (More akin to Bush’s Iraq adventure.) So hopefully when Putin’s gone the whole thing just fizzles out and we aren’t in for Cold War 2.0.

    But NATO going away anytime soon. LOL. Putin just fed it a giant helping of “relevance”.

  86. @tyrone

    If you mean the Kosovo case- this is a classic example of de-colonization from an occupying force, Serbia.

  87. @Buzz Mohawk

    The long-term strategy involves weakening or breaking Russia and bringing it under Western control, like a horse you can now ride. This will enable “our” side to control China’s access to Russian resources, including oil and gas. This will give “us” leverage over our real competition, China.

    Some people in the US deep state–mainly Jews and homosexuals–seem to have a bug up their ass with respect to Russia.

    But Russia has 6000 nukes, and the most territorial depth of any nation on the planet. No one’s going to weaken or break it from the outside, certainly not the US. I don’t even think China is much of a threat to grab Russia’s resources even down the road. They’d have to have to have several decades of absolute technological superiority–possible–and then have a missile defense capable of absolute–four 9s–reliability. (A bioengineered plague seems somewhat more likely for these “China wins all” scenarios.)

    No, the threat to Russia–same as the West–is demographic. There simply aren’t enough Russian–actually ethnically Russian–babies being born.

    Russia’s current path is toward an ever increasing Muslim population–dumber and less capable than Russians–and slumping toward Central Asian Turkic mediocrity.

    That’s what–if anything–will weaken and bring down Russia. And Putin’s done nothing to head it off. And now has killed and maimed a few tens of thousands of young Russian men and chased hundreds of thousands of others into exile. (I know of two of them.)

    Hopefully the Russians will get a less imperialistic and more nationalistic and pro-Russian leader after Putin, who’ll focus on the demographic issue.

  88. @Jack D

    I was being kind. In fact the legal/moral stuff is self-evident hypocrisy only ever used as “international law for thee but not for me.” There is no international, intercultural moral order. It’s nonsense on its face.

    It’s realpolitik all the way down. Or it used to be. The distressing thing about DC’s “Ukraine War” (really the Deep State’s Anti-Russia War) is that there is no clear realpolitik logic and it may just be a war to make the world safe for monkeypox and child trannies.

    ———

    P.S. I don’t know how you do it: four comments in 34 minutes, five comments in 55 minutes. Respeck!

    [MORE]

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Buzz Mohawk
  89. countenance says: • Website

    The “refusing” is more supposed than actual.

  90. Mike Tre says:
    @Pixo

    ” is not a defense of Putin’s disastrous invasion of Ukraine. ”

    False premise. Just because you claim it is a disaster (for who/whom, exactly, is it a disaster) doesn’t mean it is.

  91. Mike Tre says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    “On Jan. 14, a Russian missile struck an apartment building in Dnipro, in central Ukraine. Among the at least 40 dead were small children, a pregnant woman and a 15-year-old dancer. ”

    Imagine if there had been an aspiring rapper in the building!

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  92. Anonymous[140] • Disclaimer says:

    Bastard insubordinate Krauts! Good we blew up their pipeline. We need to finish them off with a new Morganthau plan.

  93. Mike Tre says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    ” I don’t even know what I’m talking about, right? ”

    that rarely stops most of us here…

    • LOL: Buzz Mohawk
  94. @Bill P

    In the editorial, the Times says Russians are not “pure” due to the “sin” of homophobia, and calls the patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church “deplorable.”

    OK, I want to know what God they worship at the NY Times. What God calls aversion to sodomy a “sin?” Can they spell it out for us? I mean, purity and sinfulness are spiritual concepts, so there ought to be some dogma, some scripture – something – that can provide us with some clarity about their values and beliefs.

    Thank you. This (and its corollaries) is the great unasked question of the 21st Century. Everywhere one looks, there is some powerful woke atheist hectoring the rest of us about what is “good”, “moral”, “just”, “pure”, “sin”, etc.

    OK Atheist Priests, can we get it out in the clear and on paper once and for all what exactly is the Moral Law of this new (non-)religion that y’all are insisting the rest of us follow?

    Cuz the only theme I can see in it is that whatever is most anti-Christian and anti-white will happen.

    [MORE]

    Steve notices too:

  95. Peterike says:
    @Twinkie

    “ Such an action is extremely destabilizing for the international order and dramatically increases the likelihood of large scale military conflicts.”

    You know what’s actually been destabilizing? The West’s collective response. Had we said, correctly, “this is none of our business” and done exactly nothing, the war would likely be over by now, with billions of dollars saved and many thousands of Ukrainian and Russian lives as well.

    Yet what good has come from our response? Zero. Other than the usual assholes getting to morally preen on Twitter. Thousands are dying and billions being wasted and the only benefit is you get to put a Uki flag in your social media profile.

    • Agree: Captain Tripps
    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
  96. Mr Mox says:
    @Twinkie

    …because I consider the use of arms to change international borders by a major country to be highly antithetical to the global stability. It has to be repulsed. Punished, even.

    The hypocrisy is strong in this one.

  97. Mark G. says:

    I work for the military and don’t see that as immoral in itself since I’m not an anarchist and see a military as a proper function of government. However, as a libertarian, I see the only proper purpose of the military to be defending the country. In recent years this country has accepted the notion of preventive wars. This is usually tied to some variation of the Vietnam era domino theory, even though that was proven wrong in the case of Vietnam itself. The dominos didn’t all fall, and we were never invaded.

    Once you accept this concept of preventive war, it opens the door for our political leaders to say anyone is a potential threat, thereby allowing them to attack whoever they feel like. I feel increasingly like I’m doing something a little immoral by working for an aggressive American empire. I just turned down a job promotion opportunity to do accounting for foreign military sales and it was given to a person who worked under me. The government shouldn’t be involved in selling or giving military equipment to anyone to be used on someone who hasn’t attacked us. It just makes Lockheed and Raytheon richer. I’m 66 and glad I can leave in the near future.

    • Thanks: Muggles
  98. Voltarde says:

    Jacob Dreizin’s recent post offers some informed insight:

    Anyway, all this tank talk is sort of nonsense.

    The German Leopard and British Challenger 2 (as well as the U.S. Abrams) tanks are all at least 62 tons in weight (as much as 75 tons for the fully-armored Challenger)—at least 16 tons heavier than the heaviest Russian/Soviet tank.

    They CANNOT be transported or evacuated by any Soviet-model trailer/flatbed, thus, all such equipment would have to come from Europe or the USA.

    The tracked “wrecker” vehicles needed to pull a damaged or broken-down Western tank onto a flatbed, would also have to come from Europe or the USA.

    Furthermore, specifically as a wartime defensive measure (Lo, Prophets have walked the Earth!!!), Soviet bridges were DESIGNED NOT TO HANDLE this much weight. I doubt the Pentagon even knows about this.

    Soviet-model pontoon bridges in the Ukrainian inventory ALSO CANNOT handle it. Any mobile bridges and bridge-layers would have to come from Europe or the USA.

    Moreover, the armor on these tanks is so heavy, that, unless the tanks are BRAND NEW (as with Israeli Merkavas during the 1982 Lebanon War), the engines and other systems can barely handle the load of continuous operation; they will require near-daily maintenance.

    (And guess what…. If Uncle Sam & Co. ever get around to it, they will NOT send the newest ones they have.)

    Lastly, unlike with the Polish, Czech, etc. T-72s, the Ukrainian side has ZERO maintenance training and ZERO spare parts inventory for these monsters.

    (Not even getting into the power shortage in Kharkov, home of their main tank repair facility.)

    It was easy enough to send the Ukraine hundreds of former Warsaw Pact tanks, identical or similar to what the Ukraine already had…..

    …..as well as several thousand relatively cheap, light armored vehicles (M113’s and a large variety of armored cars) that, given their numbers, can be cannibalized for spare parts or spare tires…..

    …..but heavy Western tanks are another ballgame, it WON’T work.

    It’s DESPERATION even to talk, to hold meetings about this.

    Beyond a few “sample” models for the cameras, you CANNOT have Western tanks in the Ukraine…..

    …..without a massive Western logistical commitment INSIDE the Ukraine.

    https://thedreizinreport.com/2023/01/21/dreizin-takes-on-the-church-of-homo/

    • Thanks: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @John Johnson
  99. @cliff arroyo

    Observation, my dear Watson. Or to paraphrase the divine Ms. Zakharova,
    “are you stupid or just pretending?”

  100. @Jack D

    I was a little off on the facts. Mea Culpa. It wasn’t a Ukrainian missile that itself hit the building. Rather:

    Ukrainian presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych has offered his resignation after suggesting a Russian missile which hit a building in Dnipro, killing 44 people, was shot down by Kyiv.

    Mr Arestovych apologised and said he had made a “fundamental error”. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64304310

    In all events, it is patently obvious that the Russians weren’t targeting the apartment building as the propaganda is trying to allege. The U.S. is allowed to have lots of “collateral damage” as long as we are intending to hit a military target. And the Ukrainians have been very deliberately shelling civilians in Donetsk from before the war to the present.

    But the time-honored propaganda playbook of every nation has always required war atrocities by the enemy. Belgian babies were being bayoneted by the Hun in 1914, Kuwaiti babies were being thrown out of their incubators by Saddam Hussein in 1990. And in 2023, the NYT claims Putin is firing missiles designed to home in on “pregnant women.”

    The other classic propaganda technique is to personify the enemy in the form of a single evil madman. It’s harder to hate the people of a nation, or to believe they have legitimate interests, than it is to pretend that one evil person is simply doing evil for his own personal gratification. So it’s always “Putin” who invaded, “Putin” who attacked an apartment building, etc. The NYT never says “Zelensky” launched an attack or blew up the Kerch bridge, or whatever. Which is ironic, because Zelensky by all accounts is personally involved in micro-managing military strategy whereas Putin has delegated and deferred to his generals.

    The NYT recognizes that we are at war by proxy. Propaganda — or “information war” as they like to call it now — is obviously a part of any nation’s war effort. And I can appreciate good propaganda as an art form. But the NYT’s propaganda is so ham-handed and dishonest that it’s frankly embarrassing for them, IMHO.

    • Thanks: Mike Tre
    • Replies: @Jack D
  101. @Dave Pinsen

    Turkish Leopards Blown Up.


    Ukrainians Really Want Western Tanks.

  102. @Mike Tre

    “On Jan. 14, a Russian missile struck an apartment building in Dnipro, in central

    Ukraine. Among the at least 40 dead were small children, a pregnant woman and a 15-year-old dancer. ”

    Imagine if there had been an aspiring rapper in the building!

    I’m sure the NYT is pissed that there aren’t any “people of color” or trannies in Ukraine who can be oppressed by Putin. On some level it surely offends the NYT’s moral code to portray white people as victims. But you have to make sacrifices in times of war.

    As an aside, can you even imagine if the Azov guys were on the Russian side, with their swastika tattoos and SS patches. The NYT editorial writers would explode in a sheer orgasm of woke self-righteous outrage. Oh well, a propagandist has to work with what he’s got.

  103. @Peterike

    I agree and would go further. What’s been destabilizing has been the West’s insistence on interfering shamelessly in Ukrainian internal affairs since at least the Orange Revolution. Independent Ukraine was obviously a sharply divided and fragile country but the US/EU/NATO countries just couldn’t help themselves. Half of Ukraine didn’t have the right to be on the wrong side of history so their concerns, views and even deaths were ignored.

  104. It has to be repulsed. Punished, even.

    We know what that looks like – it’s the American Empire judging, repulsing, attacking, punishing, all over the world for the past 75 years. And more often than not starting or egging on the wars in the first place. And we know what it results in here at home – open borders, a Deep State bureaucracy overruling democracy, a global ruling elite with open contempt for the American people they rule.
    No thanks. The sooner the American Global Empire dissolves or collapses, the better for me and mine. That is the real “real politics” calculation Americans need to make.

    • Thanks: Bill Jones
  105. Jack D says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    In an era of precision guided weapons, there is little excuse for what the Russians are doing, which is using low precision missiles which are sure to hit civilian targets sometimes even if you are aiming for something else (because they don’t have enough of the precise kind because their defense budget was spend on Bel Air real estate).

    If they are not trying to intentionally target apartment buildings and hospitals and train stations and shopping malls, all of which have in fact been hit by the Russians (and even that remains to be seen – Putin has not hesitated to hit civilian targets in other wars that they have been involved in so it’s hard to give them the benefit of the doubt) they are by their own admission trying to hit civilian power infrastructure. They are hoping to freeze the Ukrainians into submission. Is this a war crime? We’ll see.

    What was Russia actual target if not that apartment building? What military target was there in that section of Dnipro?

    Belgian babies were being bayoneted by the Hun in 1914,

    The irony is that in WWII, when the Germans really were bayonetting babies, no one believed the stories because they thought that they were just propaganda. It wasn’t until the end of the war when the camps were liberated and the German archives became available that people really understood what the Germans had actually done. I’m looking forward to the Russian archives being opened after the Putin regime falls.

  106. Interestingly, detractors of the Abrams tank talk about it’s gas guzzling turbine engine.

    But it turns out the Russkies actually sent apparently a turbine powered T-80M2 tank into Ukraine that got killed in battle.

    https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44855/russias-only-prototype-t-80um2-tank-was-destroyed-in-ukraine

  107. @Hypnotoad666

    Dnipro (Dnipropetrovsk) was the political hometown of Leonid Brezhnev and his “Dnipropetrovsk Mafia”*. Isn’t that weird?

    I thought:
    – Russia is Russia and Ukraine is Ukraine
    – That the Soviet Union was run by and for Russians. The USSR was Russian FUBU, as it were.
    – That the Brezhnev Doctrine was TRB: Typical Russian Behaviour

    * https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnipropetrovsk_Mafia

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  108. Pixo says:
    @Almost Missouri

    “ by pointing out that the US long ago gave up any moral/legal leg to stand on.”

    Which is the tu quoque logical fallacy.

    Furthermore, I Pixo did not invade Iraq, bomb Serbia, and other such evil American acts, nor did support them at the time though I was a child during the Clinton era. I am perfectly free to condemn the immortality of the Ukraine invasion.

    As for realpolitik, USA China EU and Russia have deeply retarded foreign policy all the way down. Among them, Russia’s is the most retarded. We knew before Russia was backward, corrupt, and its citizenry amoral drunkards, but at least it wasn’t woke and had a creditable military. Now we learn its military is pathetic, in bad repair, with awful morale, drawn from the dregs of its population, and defeated by a much smaller and poorer nation.

    I wish for the best for my Slavic brothers, so I don’t count Russia’s humiliation and defeats as a positive for America. But the people running America and Russia do consider themselves enemies, and it is impossible to see the Ukraine war as anything other than a disaster for Russia at minimal cost to America.

  109. Jack D says:
    @Almost Missouri

    There is no international, intercultural moral order. It’s nonsense on its face.

    So the International Criminal Court, the UN, it’s all a joke? They should knock down the UN and put up condos?

    International law does exist. It’s aspirational, it’s not always enforced or enforceable but that doesn’t mean it’s nothing. Crime exists in the US and is not always punished but that doesn’t meant that there’s no such thing as a moral order. Does a “moral order” exist in Platonic sense? No, but it exists as something that civilized people aspire to.

  110. As my daughter put it:

    ‘If I were Germany, I would tell the U.S. to fuck right off. They don’t need us and they certainly don’t need us making trouble for them with their neighbors. We have two oceans separating us from Russia; they don’t.’

  111. Thomm says:
    @Intelligent Dasein

    With near-perfect synchrony, all the previous Kovid Karens have become the Ukrainiacs. All the feds are in one basket.

    Remember the true purpose of this website.

    Mr. Twinkacetti in particular had to dust off his manual about what his GWB-era neocon talking points are.

    • Agree: Je Suis Omar Mateen
  112. @Anonymous

    In the real world, Ukraine is circling the drain and will be lucky if it holds Kiev in 6 Mos.

    Really? What are you seeing that makes you think that?

    The Ukrainians have been locked in a static war of attrition dominated by artillery. They have been outgunned (literally) by the Russian’s 8:1 advantage in guns and shells fired. The ratio of casualties and destroyed equipment has thus been running about 8:1 in Russia’s favor. The West can’t even replace their heavy weapon stocks because — unlike the Russians — we haven’t set up an industrial base of mass weapon production. (Instead, we really on politically privileged defense contractors to produce small numbers of hyper-expensive systems over very long procurement periods.)

    After all, why would the Ukrainians be scrounging around for a mish-mash of Western MBTs and artillery if they hadn’t already burned through both all their pre-war Soviet gear plus all the the old Soviet stockpiles that every other friendly country was able to send.

    Meanwhile, the Russians have spent the last six months mobilizing a new army of 400,000 well-equipped and well trained forces which aren’t even engaged in the fighting yet.

    The level and rate of Ukrainian losses and the extreme imbalance of forces are big secrets as far as the MSM narrative is concerned. This is because the voters/taxpayers need to be convinced that sending more money and weapons will have return on investment by purchasing a glorious victory, instead of merely going down the same rathole of inevitable failure as South Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.

    Here is a Substack article that does a good job of summarizing the real situation on the ground, which bears no resemblance whatever to the NYT’s fantasies.
    https://bigserge.substack.com/p/russo-ukrainian-war-the-world-blood

  113. Pixo says:
    @AnotherDad

    Last few times Russia exited a huge losing war it needed a new leader: 1917 and 1991. Lots of other examples in Europe: Napoleon I and III in France; Germany, Ottoman Empire and Austria after WWI.

    As Putin seems pretty secure, and its oil money and modern men’s low-T apolitical apathy means the best case is Putin dies and a new government proposes a return to the status quo antebellum, which we force Ukraine to accept.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  114. @Jack D

    Ukraine has been firmly under the control of Russian imperials and Soviets for the preceding two centuries and I didn’t notice America getting knocked down a notch or two.

    I am repeatedly lectured by US political and business elites and liberals, including many Jews, that the US’s borders should not be defended and it’s actually a good thing that Anglo-Americans are being replaced. The US government will not preserve (indeed, it actively deconstructs) American territorial integrity and culture, so I find it hard to give a f*** about the borders of Ukraine, and I really don’t care which group of Slavic/Jewish oligarchs rule Ukraine.

    • Agree: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Jack D
  115. @Gordo

    Yes. That is exactly right, and “our” side fucked it all up. I hope at least people here will see that I know that. This whole mess is “our” side’s fault. There was a golden opportunity after the fall of the Soviet Union, and “we” fucked it up. Now all of us just have to continue living in the bloody, toy-soldier history that so many here find so intriguing.u

    On that note, ya know, armchair generals and bloggers really like to pontificate about these things from their coffee chairs — While Brave Men Have Their Arms and Legs Blown Off.

    While Women Get Raped.

    While Cities and Towns Full of People Like My Wife Get Blown Up.

    While we suckers pay for all of it.

  116. George Orwell’s short essay , Looking Back on the Spanish War, is an instructive read.
    https://orwell.ru/library/essays/Spanish_War/english/esw_1

    Early in life I have noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper, but in Spain, for the first time, I saw newspaper reports which did not bear any relation to the facts, not even the relationship which is implied in an ordinary lie. I saw great battles reported where there had been no fighting, and complete silence where hundreds of men had been killed. I saw troops who had fought bravely denounced as cowards and traitors, and others who had never seen a shot fired hailed as the heroes of imaginary victories; and I saw newspapers in London retailing these lies and eager intellectuals building emotional superstructures over events that had never happened. I saw, in fact, history being written not in terms of what happened but of what ought to have happened according to various ‘party lines’.

    I have little direct evidence about the atrocities in the Spanish civil war. I know that some were committed by the Republicans, and far more (they are still continuing) by the Fascists. But what impressed me then, and has impressed me ever since, is that atrocities are believed in or disbelieved in solely on grounds of political predilection. Everyone believes in the atrocities of the enemy and disbelieves in those of his own side, without ever bothering to examine the evidence. Recently I drew up a table of atrocities during the period between 1918 and the present; there was never a year when atrocities were not occurring somewhere or other, and there was hardly a single case when the Left and the Right believed in the same stories simultaneously. And stranger yet, at any moment the situation can suddenly reverse itself and yesterday’s proved-to-the-hilt atrocity story can become a ridiculous lie, merely because the political landscape has changed….

    But unfortunately the truth about atrocities is far worse than that they are lied about and made into propaganda. The truth is that they happen. The fact often adduced as a reason for scepticism — that the same horror stories come up in war after war — merely makes it rather more likely that these stories are true.

  117. Mr. Anon says:

    The real question is how do you persuade any poor dumb bastard to ride around in a tank? Historically, tankers had lower casualty rates than infantry. I gather that artillery is the great killer on the battlefield. Most infantrymen are killed by shrapnel, so any kind of protection (such as being in an armored vehicle) hives you an edge. But with the proliferation of anti-tank missiles, is that still true? Based on the results of this recent Russian invasion of Ukraine, it doesn’t seem like tanks last very long on the modern battlefield.

  118. @Anonymous

    I agree, but “our” brilliant leaders have brought us to a point where we cannot do that.

    I totally agree with you, and I think there was an opportunity for that, but, as usual, people fucked it up.

    I really wonder if the old adage that people are basically good is just crap. I highly suspect that people are basically bad and that anything good that comes from us is an exception to be cherished.

    To be cherished.

    He’s 93 now and he just got married to a Romanian woman:

    • Replies: @Captain Tripps
    , @vinteuil
  119. Anonymous[410] • Disclaimer says:
    @Thoughts

    Once Russia and China are taken care of, the Jews will have impunity to slaughter millions of Muslims and annex chunks of Egypt, Iraq, Syria and Iran.

    How is Russia stopping the creation of Greater Israel?

  120. JimB says:

    The Ukrainian defensive lines are crumbling around Bahkmut, with most of their equipment wrecked and most of their officers and NCOs killed. Russia is about to launch an offensive against Ukraine with 500,000 troops coming from three directions. In four weeks, this war might be over no matter what NATO does. The question remains how many US troops will come back in body bags if Biden tries to forestall the inevitable defeat of their puppet regime in Kiev.

    • Replies: @Johnny Rico
  121. Jack D says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    going down the same rathole of inevitable failure as South Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.

    Interesting that you should mention these places because on paper the other side was as outgunned as the Ukrainians are vs. the Russians. So there is going to be an inevitable failure in Ukraine but Russia is the one who is going to fail.

    BTW, your “facts” are bullshit. Yeah, the NY Times, the Wash Po, the Pentagon, all the Western thinktanks have this all wrong but “Bigserge” has it right. If you shop around hard enough, you’ll find someone whose “facts” agree with your hopes.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  122. @Pixo

    …As Putin seems pretty secure, and its oil money and modern men’s low-T apolitical apathy means the best case is Putin dies and a new government proposes a return to the status quo antebellum, which we force Ukraine to accept.

    Nooo…..

    The best case is Putin lives. My guess is we wouldn’t like what we got instead of Putin.

    Putin is above average, as Russian leaders go.

  123. @Dave Pinsen

    I suspect that having your tanks in a war where they can get destroyed is bad for the tank selling business (even though that’s true of any tank versus a peer adversary).

    Worse for Russian salesmen is “When it comes to deploying mechanized formations, do not do as we did in the Ukraine.”

    Like what appeared to be the case early on when I was still paying attention, a complete failure to use of combined arms doctrine, not even infantry to go ahead and mitigate simple RPGs from potting the tanks etc. at close range. Which then makes it even more difficult to make the case about using the tanks you’re selling properly since you don’t know how well they might do if employed properly.

    One other issue would be with carousel (is that the case for all of them including the newest?) auto-loader Soviet/Russian tank models. We always knew it was a very bad idea if the turret was breached, but now as I understand it there are many examples in the field.

    The right way to do this is to keep the “entry-level” position of loader feeding from one or more compartments with sturdy doors and blast relief panels to vent ammo going off should it come to that. That’s a simple job to get someone used to working in a tank, and provides an extra hand for in field repairs etc. But the latter wasn’t in the Soviet DNA in WWII and in a number of domains like ships for long after.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  124. Jack D says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    First of all, not all of Ukraine. Part of modern day Ukraine was once part of Austria. Is it OK if the Austrians take that part back?

    2nd a new world order was established at the end of the Cold War. Putin is trying to undo that order. That order was indeed not good for the US. The post WWII period could have been quite different if we had been able to spend our energy on rebuilding the US instead of trying to keep up with Soviet military aggression from the minute that we defeated Hitler. The US was never able to return to a peacetime footing. If Putin wins in Ukraine, it follows that he will then want to continue reassembling the USSR. A new USSR would indeed knock us down a notch and give the Chinese ideas too, which is even worse.

    • Replies: @Anon
    , @The Anti-Gnostic
  125. If Biden remains President and his neocon handlers continue controlling policy the USA’s hegemon will wage its proxy war in the Ukraine to the last Ukrainian and until Morgenthau’s vision of an ethnically cleansed Germany is finally achieved (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgenthau_Plan) Morgenthau was just a neocon ahead of his time.

  126. Jack D says:
    @Unintended Consequence

    “The game is not worth the candle” is a French expression recorded as early as the 17th century and used in English since the 18th. No one, including me, has used candles a primary light source since the early 19th century when whale oil lamps became popular. Literate people often use idioms that date back even to the Bible but that doesn’t mean that I am as old as Moses.

    There was nothing ‘ambiguous” about the borders of Ukraine until 2014 when Putin decided that they were ambiguous. Before that, on many occasions (first and foremost in the Budapest Memo, in exchange for which Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons – big mistake) Russia accepted and committed to Ukraine’s internationally recognized boundaries. Russia committed “to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine” and “to refrain from the threat or use of force” against the country.

  127. Anon[413] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    If Putin wins in Ukraine, it follows that he will then want to continue reassembling the USSR.

    It follows that the Jews need to be repelled and pushed back out of “Israel.”

  128. @Jack D

    the NY Times, the Wash Po, the Pentagon, all the Western thinktanks have this all wrong

    Yep, all these sources are institutional liars who are dedicated to holding the same propaganda line. If you trace back the original source of any assertion made by this propaganda collective you will find that it’s a daisy-chain of citations to the same unsupported claim in another propaganda outlet until it eventually leads to an anonymous Ukrainian or American “official,” or else the mere opinion of some pro-NATO think-tank like the ISW, which is run by the neo-con Kagan family for the express purpose of supplying Narrative-supporting “analysis” to the MSM.

    The thing about dissenting sources with funny names is that they can’t ride on the fake authority of being an MSM official truth-arbiter. Their analysis has to stand up independently and speak for itself based on the weight of its logic and reliance on the best publicly available facts.

    • Agree: Cagey Beast, Renard
    • Replies: @Pixo
  129. Anonymous[950] • Disclaimer says:

    If the turret is breached then everybody in the tank is dead anyway regardless of whether the ammunition blows up as well.

    (It may even be more humane, as you die from blast rather than burning and suffocation.)

  130. Hibernian says:
    @SafeNow

    Fort Benning, Columbus GA, is Infantry, including Airborne training. Fort Knox, near Louisville, is Armor.

    • Replies: @68W58
  131. anon[419] • Disclaimer says:

    @Buzz Mohawk #14

    “The long-term strategy involves weakening or breaking Russia and bringing it under Western control, like a horse you can now ride. This will enable “our” side to control China’s access to Russian resources, including oil and gas. This will give “us” leverage over our real competition, China.

    “I am all in favor of that if it can work, but only because it is necessary, not because it is right. ”

    Forgive me for saying, but somewhen in the recent past I seem to remember that Russia wanted to *join* NATO. We said no to that. Would that not have given us a great deal more “leverage over our real competition, China”? And did not “our” brilliant sanctions and exploding of other peoples’ pipelines actually mandate that China, India and Iran will have access to Russia’s resources? The only leverage we appear to have now is over Europe, and if the Germans don’t cave, even that is weakening.

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
  132. Pixo says:

    Chinese decline: loan-fueled belt and road projects plagued by construction defects (WSJ bypass link):

    https://archive.is/nbPe0

    They loaned $18 billion to *Ecuador* and billions more to Argentina, Pakistan, Ethiopia, Angola, etc.

    Yeah, they ain’t paying that back.

    Meanwhile India just passed China in population officially, though China has probably been overstating its births and its population. Nonetheless, while India’s population is 1% higher now, it has 2.4 times the number of births in 2022. And that’s taking the Chinese figures at face value.

  133. @Buzz Mohawk

    How exactly is the Chinese military (not including nukes) any threat to the United States?

    Does China (or Russia) have the ability (or desire) to transport at least a million men across the Pacific somehow avoiding our sub, missiles and carrier groups? If so, could China supply this army from halfway across the globe?

    You realize how laughably stupid your statement is, right.

    Now, if you mean that China is an economic competitor. Well, sure. But so what? Germany is an economic competitor, so is Japan. We’re not trying to destroy them. Are you saying that China is an ideological competitor because I’m not really seeing that outside of they’re not on board the Globo-Homo agenda, which is a good thing.

    Just how exactly is China a threat to the US outside of nukes?

  134. @Jack D

    I lose track: is Russia this technocratic, streamlined killing machine that will take over Ukraine, Belarus, Germany, France, Poland, Canada, then the US and the world, or is it a typically creaky, semi-Asiatic, lower trust Old World country that is being picked to death by those nimble Ukrainians?

    Anyway, if the Austrians want to claw back Ukraine they can try; I do not care. Ukrainians would be far better off ruled by Austrians than Ukrainians and sovereignty’s always up for grabs; there’s no SuperDuper High Court of Sovereignty up there issuing edicts and executing judgments over it all. The Poles are probably going to carve out some additional areas of influence if not outright territory. If the US wants to plop down a military base in Syria so some obscure tribe can fund its weird existence with oil it does so. If the Vietnamese find Pol Pot so sickening they invade Cambodia, they do so. The international order is anarchic, not civic.

    The post-WW2/Cold War era was astoundingly good for the US, as was the post-Soviet era. What country were you living in from 1946 – 2000?

    Where things went downhill was post-2000, when the US severed its last enfeebled ties with Anglo-America for the post-Cold War vision that everybody in the world is just an American who hasn’t got here yet, and America’s foreign policy establishment shed its vestigial realpolitik in favor of democratic, Trotskyite ideology.

    • Disagree: Corvinus
    • Replies: @Jack D
  135. @Almost Missouri

    P.S. I don’t know how you do it: four comments in 34 minutes, five comments in 55 minutes. Respeck!

    He is a favorite of Steve Sailer.

    I was one and did the exact same until I got a little crazy and Steve put some seat belts on me. I used to have people reading and replying to my comments before the edit window time expired. They used to see when I made my own corrections and changes on the fly. I had a direct, shit-to-chute-to-reader pipeline here, man, and that’s what Jack has now.

    As for me now, I’m just trying to break my addiction and stop here. I mostly feel bad about what I read and write here, but I keep coming back. I haven’t learned anything new here in I don’t know how long, and I regret half the comments I post. It’s time for me to graduate from this class and move on…

  136. There’s a new piece at RT about another moment when Russia and Germany got entangled in Ukrainian nationalism:

    The Cossack who took on the Bolsheviks: How a Russian officer inadvertently buried independent Ukraine
    The aristocrat Pavel Skoropadsky founded the Cossack Hetmanate and became a hero in Kiev

    https://www.rt.com/russia/567410-monarchy-ukrainian-style-skoropadsky/

    As you scroll down you’ll see links to more RT stories on Ukrainian history.

  137. @Twinkie

    It would take the Ukrainians at least six months to learn how to use these tanks. Also, who’s going to maintain them. How are they going to get enough shells?

    The whole thing is a joke.

    The war was over when two things happened:

    1. The economic sanctions didn’t cripple Russia
    2. Russia switched to a war of attrition focused on artillery where they have a 5-10 to 1 advantage

    Everything after that was just details. I feel bad for the Ukrainians, especially now that it’s becoming obvious that they’re running out of fit men and equipment. The West couldn’t supply them with what they need even if we went all in. We don’t have production capacity.

    This is no a longer a war. It’s murder.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
  138. Farenheit says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    Well stated…Think this through…

    How does the West react if the Russians detonate their smallest nuclear weapon five miles away from the Polish border over the Ukraine at thirty thousand feet over empty farm land? No causalities, next to no radiation, but accompanied with a simple political statement, “Enough”

  139. Jack D says:
    @That Would Be Telling

    That’s a simple job to get someone used to working in a tank, and provides an extra hand for in field repairs etc.

    It wouldn’t have to be a human. You could have the same compartment with a shutter that would only open momentarily while the mechanical feeder reached inside for a new shell and stay closed the rest of the time. But the Russian tank design has the ammo on a carousel directly underneath the crew with zero separation. The crew is literally sitting on loaded bombs. All you need is a source of detonation (a Javelin) and all the ammo goes off at once and vaporizes the crew.

    If you can fly a fighter jet with one or two people surely you can drive a tank with three. But the Soviet DNA was not to care about casualties – troops are “cannon meat” so if they get blown up along with their tank, no big deal. More where they came from – the prisons, the provinces, the draft. Designing a tank with a separate crew compartment costs money that could be better spent on Bel Air real estate. Also Soviet doctrine was that quantity has its own quality. 10 really crappy tanks are better than one really good one in their book.

  140. Pixo says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    “ The thing about dissenting sources with funny names is that they can’t ride on the fake authority of being an MSM official truth-arbiter. ”

    Nah, you pootiebots are an endlessly forgiving audience. Saker, Karlin, Scott “Convicted Pedo” Ritter, RWA—they all predicted quick Russian victories, and then made excuses for every failure.

    Remember those “cauldron” maps of how Russia would encircle the Ukrainian army? How Russia’s victory would be so glorious that it would inspire revanchist invasions of Ukraine by Hungary and Poland? How Germany would freeze this winter and the dollar would be “dethroned”?

    Now to be honest I expected a quick Russian victory too, but by mid-March the pathetic disorganized dilapidated state of the Russian military was obvious. But you and your fellow pootiebots can’t admit error and reevaluate. Instead you cope with unsourced fantasies about disproportionate Ukrainian casualties.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  141. @Jack D

    Putin violated that principle and THIS CANNOT STAND just as Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait could not stand.

    I think what you really mean is this “should not” stand. A lot of things can actually stand when they are done by a major power with 10,000 nukes. That’s also why the world can stand a lot from the U.S. that other countries could never get away with.

    The old “if I make an exception for you, then everyone gets to invade a country” argument sounds okay but it doesn’t actually make sense in reality. Countries are restrained by consequences, not “principles.” We can still slap down countries for doing bad whenever we want regardless of what happens in Ukraine. Besides, everybody knows the U.S. wouldn’t stop East Elbonia from taking over West Elbonia, if West Elbonia was on its sh*t-list of pariah countries. There isn’t any real principle at stake here except that you can’t get away with making the U.S. look weak without paying a price.

  142. Jack D says:
    @The Anti-Gnostic

    is Russia this technocratic, streamlined killing machine that will take over Ukraine, Belarus, Germany, France, Poland, Canada, then the US and the world, or is it a typically creaky, semi-Asiatic, lower trust Old World country that is being picked to death by those nimble Ukrainians?

    Porque no los dos? N. Korea is OTOH a mess where at time people have at times had to resort to eating tree bark or have starved to death and yet at the same time armed with nukes and ballistic missiles than make it a threat to world peace. The MORE creaky it is, the MORE of a threat it is to world peace because the leader can only maintain his legitimacy by keeping the country on a war footing. “We are surrounded by enemies!”

    Sovereignty’s always up for grabs

    So you won’t mind when China and Japan divvy up the Russian Far East? Can Germany have Kaliningrad back?

    • Agree: Bardon Kaldian
  143. @Bardon Kaldian

    I meant that Königsberg was taken in a war of defense.

    • Replies: @anonymous
  144. Yahya says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    any nation, Israel deserves the land that it can conquer and hold.

    Your attitude is the reason why people were slaughtering each other for thousands of years.

    News flash: The moral paradigm changed after WW2.

    It led to increased world peace and prosperity.

    That’s an objectively good thing. It ought to be preserved.

    Israel is no better or worse than any other nation.

    Moral relativism.

  145. @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Israel is no better or worse than any other nation.

    If you’ll accept the corollary that Israel should be held to the same standards as other countries then I’d say you and I are pretty much on the same page.

  146. @Pixo

    This is why there should be a real political betting market. For example, a betting line that: “Russia will occupy Odessa before Ukraine occupies Sevastopol.” That way I could just take money from the propaganda-believers instead of pointlessly arguing on the internet.

    • Agree: stari_momak
  147. Yahya says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Furthermore, virtually all these lands are historically Jewish.

    Well in that case then German lands are historically Christian.

    So any Christian coming from Nigeria or Congo has more right to it than some atheist ethnic German.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  148. Muggles says:
    @Alfa158

    Is it just me?

    I thought that with HIMARS and other quick and dirty anti tank drones, soldier fired missiles, etc. that the Russian tanks/armored vehicles were just sitting ducks?

    We’ve seen hundreds of shots of destroyed Russian armor (some tanks, some large armored non tanks, etc.).

    So why do the Ukes need tanks? They are easy to hit and see from drones or aircraft or satellites.

    Tanks are heavy, expensive, slow and hard to conceal. Use a lot of fuel and require trained crews.

    Seems like this tank demand is just foolish. Putin wants to replay WWII and Kursk. The Russians won that one. Why let Ukraine stand in for the Wehrmacht?

    Or, are we being misled here?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  149. @AnotherDad

    But it’s kind of weird thing to say. NATO has been revivified by Putin.

    Has it? Time will tell. On the one hand, it has a proxy war with Russia that it helped provoke with its expansion. On the other hand, the U.S.-led response to that war is deindustrializing Germany, exacerbating fissures between Germany and former Warsaw Pact countries like Poland and the girlboss militarist states bordering Russia, and between Turkey and Northern Europe. If Germany is indeed a sovereign country, one would think it might come to prefer the status quo ante of peace and mutually beneficial trade with Russia.

    • Agree: Captain Tripps
    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  150. Jack D says:
    @Muggles

    No, you are not being misled. The Ukrainians (and this is no secret) want these tanks so they can go on offense and retake the part of their country that the Russians are still occupying. Tanks are primarily OFFENSIVE weapons (remember Blitzkreig)? Then it will be the Russians turn to try to take out expensive tanks with cheap handheld weapons, except that (we hope) our tanks have better armor and /or the Russians have worse anti-tank weapons.

    • Replies: @Muggles
  151. @Bill P

    OK, I want to know what God they worship at the NY Times.

    Moloch, per their stance on transitioning children.

  152. @Jack D

    So you won’t mind when China and Japan divvy up the Russian Far East? Can Germany have Kaliningrad back?

    Nope. I’m not German, Kaliningradian, Chinese, Japanese or Russian Far Eastern. I do not intend to shed a drop of blood for any of those places. Nor, for that matter, do you.

    Being Jewish-Ukrainian, you by contrast have a visceral attachment to Ukraine, and thus work to align American interests with Ukrainian interests–a longtime tail-wag-the-dog strategy in international relations. Our founders warned against such foreign entanglements but your American mythos begins with Ellis Island, not the American founding.

  153. Muggles says:
    @Jack D

    I agree that it is nice to have tanks if you are attacking.

    But the Russians have been doing most of the attacking (until recently) and they haven’t done very well. They have (had) lots of tanks and other armor. Most of those now gone.

    Tanks, to repeat, are quite vulnerable in modern warfare.Remember Saddam Hussein’s heavily tanked up Republican Guard?

    They were lunch meat by noon. Even without air power the Ukes have beaten Russian tanks.

    There may be longer run geopolitical considerations to Zelenskyy’s demand for tanks. They imply a long supply chain and long term military commitment. But so what?

    That is just a PR gambit and ploy. No one believes any sudden influx of tanks will happen, much less become decisive.

    Let the Russians waste resources on tanks. They are all about armor and artillery. And taking huge casualties. The Ukes better play smarter than that.

    I regard the Polish-German kerfuffle over tanks to be shadow boxing. To distract Putin.

    The best Uke strategy is to bog down the Russians, tire them out. The Ukes aren’t going anywhere, they live there. The Russians don’t. After they destroy a much of crappy Uke cities, they can go home and claim a Big Victory.

    Putin will fall as a result.

  154. Westernising:

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
    , @HA
  155. @Cagey Beast

    Too late for this one to transition:

  156. Once upon a time…they did! And thousands of ’em.

  157. @Bill P

    The problem with Steve, Another Dad, Twinkie et al – they are decent people who haven’t yet taken in that the post-WW2 settlement isn’t the natural order of things.

    Think about it. For millennia, ever since we stopped being hunter-gatherers and became farmers, there have been the elites and the rest. It took centuries of struggle – first between the owners of land and those who only had their labour to sell, and then between the owners of capital and those who had only their labour to sell, for any kind of progress for working folk to be made.

    During most of that time working people were crapped upon frequently and from a great height. The United States was an exception for much of this time, because the land was “free” and the original owners had no power to retrieve it, and because labour was expensive. Steve has often quoted Ben Franklin on this. But elsewhere – the Highland Clearances, the Potato Famine, the laws against Trades Unions which saw people imprisoned or transported – the controllers of land and capital did more or less what they wished, having control of the lawmaking bodies and judiciary. (Prior to that of course the local lord just sent a bunch of guys with swords to make a suitable example).

    So after a lot of brave people in jail or worse we ended up with one man one vote, then one person one vote.

    There was, I should mention, one scenario when working people might possibly be offered better treatment in present or in future – and that was when the elite wanted people to fight for them against the working people of some other elite.

    Fast forward (I haven’t got all evening) to 1945, when the Yanks and Brits (and of course Russia/SU) had defeated the baddie (and burned hundreds of thousands of non-combatants to death in the Ruhr and Tokyo). Surely things will be better for our heroic returning troops than they were after WW1?

    And they were. But after WW1 the troops came home to depression and hard times. Relatives who returned with permanent damage from shell and bullet found themselves unemployed in the 1930s.

    Post-WW2 was different – partly because the Allies had pretty much obliterated the industries of Europe and the Far East, so competition was minimal, partly because there was a thing called Communism which was extremely powerful and attractive, at least in Europe. In France and Italy for example, the Communist Party was Yuge, and in the UK it was very powerful, especially in the Trade Union movement, and attracted a lot of support from British Jews, this lady’s career being a not untypical example of following the money and power.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sue_Slipman

    I am not now, nor have ever been, a communist. But the existence of communist countries, flawed as they were, between 1945 and 1990 was to some extent a guarantee that employers couldn’t take the piss that much, because if people got too angry they might decide the alternative model was better.

    After 1990, to misquote Mrs Thatcher, there WAS no alternative. At that point triumphant capital, long liberated from ancient shibboleths like patriotism (one country – and one only – excepted) and religion (one- and one only – excepted) decided to go full steam ahead on creating the perfect atomised, deracinated, fungible employee as well as the atomised, deracinated consumer. This was the start of the process which gives us Pride Month and also Greta Thunberg. This cultural warfare will continue unless it’s stopped. Our host bemoans it but has no plans to stop it.

    It was soon discovered (certainly by the early 2000s) that China, having seemingly abandoned Communism in all but name (the way the British State has abandoned Christianity) was a perfect replacement for their sometimes literally Bolshy manufacturing workforce. A billion high-IQ people! US and EU elites saw China as pliable, longing to be accepted by “the West”, as perfect domestic help – in that they didn’t need to keep employing a lot of Americans and Europeans.

    The Chinese had other ideas, something America only took on board in the last decade.

    American real male wages peaked around 1973 as competition from places like Japan increased. Brit male wages around 1979. The ‘Thatcher Miracle” was a mirage caused by throwing more women into the workforce. But it was in the Noughties that whole industries started disappearing East.

    https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/the-typical-male-u-s-worker-earned-less-in-2014-than-in-1973/

    American elites saw the fall of Communism and the collapse of the Soviet Union as their Big Chance for World Domination.

    “For half a millennium, world affairs were dominated by Eurasian powers and peoples who fought with one another for regional domination and reached out for global power. Now a non-Eurasian power is preeminent in Eurasia—and America’s global primacy is directly dependent on how long and how effectively its preponderance on the Eurasian continent is sustained.”

    Russia controlling Crimea, Donbass and Luhansk makes it a danger to the Wolfowitz/Brzezinski strategy.

    If the US elites win this war against Russia, capital will be as free as a bird – and labour likewise, if it suits capital. Boris’s first move was to reward Brexit voters by handing out UK visas at the rate of 1.1 million a year.
    Your movements are monitored if you have a smart or even dumb mobile. Your communications are monitored. In the UK you are prevented from receiving the wrong sort of news (e.g. from Russia).

    Your elites hate you. Why aid them? If they think it’s important to aid rump Ukraine, then of one thing you can be sure – it’s important not to.

    • Thanks: Houston 1992
    • Replies: @New Dealer
    , @Bill P
    , @Gordo
  158. At least Germany still builds tanks. This, from French-language Quora, illustrates the fate of French shipbuilding:

    https://lesnostalgiques.quora.com/https-fr-quora-com-Comment-pourrait-on-illustrer-la-d%C3%A9sindustrialisation-en-France-answer-Philippe-Chateau?ch=18&oid=88078498&share=5086f4e3&srid=Xj6rC&target_type=post

    How could we illustrate deindustrialization in France?

    https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c52cdddf2604915eebcd1279a5ef1d16-lq

    [Quora won’t let me post a pic, but this is well worth a click.]

    Dunkirk is a port city which for a long time housed large shipyards, which were practically in town. I recently came across this photo taken probably in the early 70s. From the western end of the beach, we had a direct view of the supertankers under construction.

    Not very glamorous, I grant you. But it made a lot of people live, rather well besides, the Chantiers de France were reputed to treat their workers well.

    https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-2d74e376b3e9b95a315a7de20bd6aeff-lq

    [This too.]

    Here is the same place, photographed today (November 8, which explains why the beach is deserted), the angle of view is greater but the photo was taken from the same place. The landmark is the building with the pointed roof, which housed the assemblies of large parts; now it has been integrated into the FRAC (Fonds Régional d’Art Contemporain) and its “twin” has been built alongside. The view of the old shipyards is now occupied by a Radisson **** hotel, the holds where the ship is located have been filled in and are now occupied by buildings. The harbor cranes in the background no longer exist. The building under construction at the back is another **** hotel.

    Comment pourrait-on illustrer la désindustrialisation en France ?

    Dunkerque est une cité portuaire qui a pendant longtemps abrité de grands chantiers de construction navale, qui se trouvaient pratiquement en ville. Je suis tombé récemment sur cette photo prise vraisemblablement au début des années 70. De l’extrémité ouest de la plage, on avait une vue directe sur les supertankers en construction.

    Pas très glamour, je vous l’accorde. Mais cela faisait vivre beaucoup de monde, plutôt bien d’ailleurs, les Chantiers de France étaient réputés bien traiter leurs ouvriers.

    Voici le même endroit, pris en photo aujourd’hui (8 novembre, ce qui explique que la plage soit déserte), l’angle de prise de vue est plus grand mais la photo a été prise du même endroit. Le point de repère est le bâtiment au toit pointu, qui abritait les assemblages de pièces de grande taille ; maintenant il a été intégré au FRAC (Fonds Régional d’Art Contemporain) et son “jumeau” a été construit à côté. La vue sur les anciens chantiers est maintenant occupée par un hôtel Radisson ****, les cales où se trouve le navire ont été comblées et sont maintenant occupées par des immeubles. Les grues du port en arrière-plan n’existent plus. Le bâtiment en construction au fond est un autre hôtel ****.

  159. @Jack D

    Yes, theoretically an explosive is an explosive but the taboo on the use of nukes is a good thing and should be maintained.

    The taboo on the use of anything on noncombatants is a good thing and should be maintained. But that is too Thomistic for the modern mind to grasp.

  160. RSDB says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Who should punish us for what we’ve done in Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc.?

    Apparently, judging by what has happened to our country since, God.

  161. @Thoughts

    Notice how Steve never talks about the Palestinians.

    I’m sure he’s talked more about them than you have about the Copts, the Yezidis, the Chaldeans, the Anatolian Greeks, Assyrian Christians, and numerous others put together. All victims of a force that outnumbers Israelis 200-1.

    This was built with blood:

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  162. @Bardon Kaldian

    Israel’s “conquests” are basically self-defensive moves to preserve Israel from complete annihilation. Furthermore, virtually all these lands are historically Jewish.

    That’s mendacious nonsense. Really.

    I could as reasonably convert to Buddhism and reclaim my ‘historic Indian homeland.’ When the Indians who lived there objected, I’d just ‘defend myself’ and take more.

    In fact, why don’t the Japanese do just that? They could make the same argument.

    • Agree: HammerJack
    • Replies: @That Would Be Telling
  163. @Reg Cæsar

    ‘I’m sure he’s talked more about them than you have about the Copts, the Yezidis, the Chaldeans, the Anatolian Greeks, Assyrian Christians, and numerous others put together. All victims of a force that outnumbers Israelis 200-1.’

    How many billions do we give that force each year? Does the Ayatollah rate a standing ovation when he addresses Congress?

    • Replies: @houston 1992
  164. @Cagey Beast

    Krushchev was also Ukrainian. So they did ok for a supposedly oppressed group of foreigners.

    Up until a couple years ago nobody thought that Russians living in Ukraine weren’t Russians. Zelensky grew up in Krivoy Rog and couldn’t even speak Ukrainian when he was elected. He still can’t speak it very well and uses Russian whenever he’s off camera.

    • Thanks: Cagey Beast
    • Replies: @HA
  165. @The Anti-Gnostic

    Being Jewish-Ukrainian, you by contrast have a visceral attachment to Ukraine, and thus work to align American interests with Ukrainian interests–a longtime tail-wag-the-dog strategy in international relations.

    I’m not sure what the appeal of this war is for American Jews — but it can’t be love of Ukrainians; the only thing Jews hate more than a Russian is a Ukrainian or a Pole. Cossacks — ask Jews about Cossacks. Think maybe they have paintings of Khmelnitsky in the living room? Next to the one of Tsar Alexander III?

    It’s a dark thought — but maybe Jews enjoy seeing Russians and Ukrainians killing each other.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  166. @Jack D

    So the International Criminal Court, the UN, it’s all a joke? They should knock down the UN and put up condos?

    You skipped the step where you prove that those institutions operate by something other than the petty interests of their masters.

    While I wouldn’t mourn their passing, those institutions arguably could have purposes besides any soi-disant moral order: shortening diplomatic round trips by concentrating ambassadors in one place, for example. But I await a definitive demonstration of their worth.

    Does a “moral order” exist in Platonic sense? No, but it exists as something that civilized people aspire to.

    Whose aspiration? Who chooses the “civilized people”? The aspirations of the powerful, of course, and it is they who choose. And so we are back to realpolitik.

  167. @Bardon Kaldian

    “If they do that then Germany will only appear as a paralyzed Russia appeaser, something the EU – and NATO in particular – has very little need for in times like these.”

    Germany needs Russia. Scholz backing away from the bellicosity preferred by NATO and the US is the best choice for Germany. So what if he looks wishy-washy while retreating from the brink of war and Germany’s economic collapse. He’ll likely even be reelected if he manages a 180 and gets the gas flowing again.

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
  168. Renard says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    Your points are all valid only there’s one critical fact missing: the Ukraine is backed by the US taxpayer which is an effectively unlimited resource. As you know, the US government will just “print” however much money zelensky wants, and the population of the United States will pay for it with a combination of taxation and inflation.

    As Jack demonstrates (however inadvertently) the population of the United States is brainwashed by mass-media propaganda and will happily support its own ruin whenever this or the next Hitler is declared.

    Now everyone be good little boys and girls and go back to your (television, movies, and approved websites). Anything else is riding with Hitler!

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  169. @nokangaroos

    But this is not what the Polacks want: They want the Germans to disarm, by any means necessary.

    Dreams of a Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth redux?

    Do they realize that this might conflict just slightly with the neocons’ plans for the region? Establishing New Galicia, or perhaps the Neo-Khazarian Empire? Or even… “Big Israel”?

    https://www.jta.org/2022/04/06/global/zelensky-ukraine-will-look-more-like-big-israel-than-europe-in-the-wake-of-russias-war

    But if the Ukraine becomes “Big Israel” — who’s gonna be the Palestinians?

    Or perhaps they’ll be content with simply restarting this project:

    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/crimea-ukraine-virtual-jewish-history-tour#a

    Crimea as a Potential Jewish Homeland

    …from 1924 until 1938, the Joint Distribution Committee – through the American Jewish Joint Agricultural Corporation and its American Jewish financiers – supported Jewish agricultural settlements in Soviet Crimea.

  170. @Muggles

    “I regard the Polish-German kerfuffle over tanks to be shadow boxing. To distract Putin.”

    The Poles are completely capable of outsmarting themselves while the Germans have been genuinely pacifist since WWII. I wouldn’t be surprised if Scholz chooses the path of negotiation having been dragged into this conflict by an overly aggressive Merkel. Women!

    Meanwhile, the Poles are manifesting the Princess and the Pea personality disorder and will promptly be ignored by all countries not needing anything from them.

  171. Anonymous[140] • Disclaimer says:

    Estimates are there have so far been 150k KIA/40k MIA Ukrainian troops. I think the U.S. and NATO needs a better proxy army. One that doesn’t die or get blown up so easily. And we spent 8 years training them and they can’t put a real fight and are getting slaughtered by Wagner mercs.

  172. @The Anti-Gnostic

    Speaking of visceral attachment to Ukraine, take Chrystia Freeland, for example. She’s next in line for PM of Canada, and I have no doubt she cares more about Ukraine than Canada by a longshot. Her “activities” in Ukraine “glow” like hell.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-kgb-archives-show-how-chrystia-freeland-drew-the-ire-and-respect-of/

    What business, the Kyiv newspaper Pravda Ukrainy asked, did someone from Edmonton have leading a civic organization for the preservation of the Ukrainian language in Ukraine? Why did someone in Ukraine to study Ukrainian spend so little time doing so at the university sponsoring her visit – and why study when, as the televised rallies at which she spoke time and again clearly showed, she spoke the language flawlessly?

    According to the KGB, Ms. Freeland was more than just an agitator for, as Col. Stroi derisively put it, “the liberation of Ukraine” who coerced Soviet citizens into staging marches and rallies to attract Western support. She delivered cash, video- and audio-recording equipment, and even a personal computer to her contacts in Ukraine.

    All of this took place under the watchful eye of the KGB, which surveilled Ms. Freeland. Its officers tailed her wherever she went; tapped her phone calls to Ukrainians abroad; bugged her accommodation; read her mail; and had an informer, codenamed Slav, insert himself into Ms. Freeland’s circle and gain the young Canadian’s trust.

    But Ms. Freeland knew the rules of the road. She used a Canadian diplomat at the embassy in Moscow, known to the KGB as Bison and suspected of being a spy, to send material abroad in a diplomatic pouch that could not be intercepted or read.

    Just an exchange student. LOL.

    • Thanks: Renard
  173. @International Jew

    My beef isn’t with Israelis. It’s with their cousins.

  174. @Jack D

    They should knock down the UN and put up condos?

    LOL. For starters.

  175. @Yahya

    I’m sure the Romans said the same thing to the people they subjugated.

    Regardless, your issue isn’t with me; it’s with nature.

    • Agree: Mike Tre
    • Replies: @Yahya
  176. @Yahya

    No, because among the Europeans nation trumps religion. Historically & culturally, German lands are German, and no ethnic type of other Christians need apply. Nation is a collective destiny of a people, and religion is an important part, but just a part.

    Judaism is, unlike Christianity and Islam, an ethnic & not a universalist religion, not unlike Zoroastrians and Sikhs. Christians are not a “people”& Jews are a “people” (language, taboos, holidays, history, cultural national identity, customs, even their sacred law, …).

    With Jews in Israel, the situation is clear: They are a people who had been kicked out of their ancestral land ca. 1900 years ago & in the 19th C, some of them nationally matured & created a national movement to establish a nation-state in their ancestral homeland..

    Various Arabs living in Palestine/Israel have populated that area in the past 1400 or so years. They clearly are not historical people of that region in any particular sense as Jews are (Hebrew language, historical culture & taboos, food taboos, cultural physiognomy as expressed in Jewish literature in the past 2000-2500 years, Jewish music & musical instruments, Jewish calendar, …).

    Of course, that doesn’t mean that Israelis can just kick out Palestinian Arabs, as many of them would like to. The argument “I was here before, at least 1500 years before your ancestors had appeared at the scene” doesn’t hold water.

    But, having in mind that the official Israeli policy has long been a 2 states solution & all Palestinian representative bodies declined that offer, evidently wanting to either kick the Israelis out or to ethnically swamp them & reduce them to a defenseless & humiliated minority, the only solution is status quo.

    With such intransigence, mostly from the Palestinian side in the last 30-40 years, the only realistic option is status quo ad infinitum.

    • Replies: @Yahya
  177. HA says:
    @Anon

    “If that were true, the United States wouldn’t have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan…”

    Remind us when the US annexed Iraq and Afghanistan — did someone stitch two extra stars on the flag without telling anyone?

    • Replies: @Anon
  178. @Bardon Kaldian

    “Israel’s” conquests are basically “self-defensive moves” to preserve “Israel” from “complete annihilation.” Furthermore, virtually all these lands are “historically Jewish.”

    Yawn. The hasbarat makes a frantic, failed attempt to “justify” the relentless, terroristic aggression of the semitic supremacist settler-colonialist regime in Palestine. What a surprise.

    The “Russians are only good when ruled by judeobolsheviks” take is typical as well, of course.

  179. BB753 says:
    @Wokechoke

    Saddam used to be a US ally. I’m sure he believed he deserved Kuwait after waging war against Iran for nearly a decade. But the US has only one bestie: Israel.

  180. @Buzz Mohawk

    It’s time for me to graduate from this class and move on…

    Noooo! None of us want to miss out on the latest Buzz

  181. @Buzz Mohawk

    I really wonder if the old adage that people are basically good is just crap. I highly suspect that people are basically bad and that anything good that comes from us is an exception to be cherished.

    LOL; maybe you are now “The Last Real Calvinist”…

  182. @Dave Pinsen

    Even the U.S.-proposed tank deal would contribute to Germany’s deindustrialization.

    Why would a sovereign Germany want to remain in an alliance/vassalage that is wrecking its economy? To protect them from Russia? If they thought Russia was a threat they wouldn’t have done the Nord Stream deal with them.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  183. Don’t believe the hype; tanks are still vital for Ukraine

    Some say the time of the tank is over, but Ukraine needs the weapons to push Russia out of its territory.

    Don’t believe the hype; tanks are still vital for Ukraine
    Some say the time of the tank is over, but Ukraine needs the weapons to push Russia out of its territory.

    Many other countries are considering Ukraine’s insistent requests for heavy armour.

    In the age of long-range precision fire, drones, missiles and powerful anti-tank weapons, many observers have considered the tank to be obsolete.

    Some countries have even started to phase them out completely, claiming the days of massed armoured assaults are over.

    So why are they needed?

    Predicting the demise of the tank is premature.

    It is true that tanks have recently become vulnerable to high-precision fire and highly portable Western anti-tank weapons like the Javelin. Russia’s T-72 and T-80 tanks have come off worse in most battles in Ukraine.

    Tanks are vulnerable and always have been, ever since they were invented in the closing years of World War I more than a century ago.

    However, tanks have continuously evolved, along with the weapons designed to destroy them, and Ukraine is in need of hundreds if it wants to launch its counteroffensive to retake first the south, then the rest of the country.

    Its own Russian-legacy tanks are worn and in need of replacement after months of industrial-level combat.

    NATO countries are ideal candidates to donate some of their inventories, and for Ukraine, the tanks can’t arrive quickly enough.

    Western tanks have been designed very much with the defeat of Russian tanks in mind. With reactive armour, powerful main guns and increasingly effective countermeasures, tanks are manufactured to stay in the fight and keep crews safe.

    The latest-generation main battle tanks are vital for Ukraine if it wants to punch holes in Russian defensive lines and retake territory that Russian forces seized in the opening weeks of the invasion.

    Southern Ukraine is flat and ideal tank territory. It is also where Russia has been building rows of trenches and fortified bunkers to stop a Ukrainian advance.

    In a Ukrainian offensive, tanks along with troops protected by infantry fighting vehicles like the American Bradley, German Mardar and even the Russian-made BMP-2 would advance.

    Armoured fists

    Infantry fighting vehicles are designed to transport troops to hot spots during a battle. They offer protection and fire support to the infantry squad inside.

    This combination is a powerful one for an army, especially when coupled with long-range fire and massive air support, particularly from combat drones.

    Used correctly, tanks are the armoured fists that can punch through defensive lines.

    They are powerful, deadly weapons, but they’re not invulnerable and need protection. As the weapons change so does the type of protection tanks need, but tactics often beat technology, and cadres of senior Ukrainian officers are being trained up by the United States in combined armed offensive operations, which means the use of all weapons at Ukraine’s disposal in the most effective ways so they will compliment each other and ensure victory.

    There are issues with introducing foreign weapons systems into Ukraine that all need their own spare parts, training and repair crews. Keeping them supplied and battle-worthy will be a significant challenge.

    For a successful offensive in the south, Ukraine would need to stockpile weapons, tanks, fuel and ammunition close to the Dnipro River without being discovered.

    Kyiv’s forces would then need to cross the river at multiple points while under fire. Advance units would need to hold beachheads on the far side of the river. Ukrainian units then would need to assault the extensive defensive positions the Russians have prepared. Both sides would need to pour in reinforcements and keep them supplied.

    In all this, strategic deception would play its part and keep Russia guessing as to where Ukraine would attack. Accurate long-range fire would help Ukraine disrupt Russian supply chains and hamper the arrival of reinforcements. In all this, tanks, if used smartly and decisively, could tear through Russian lines, the mailed fist Ukraine desperately needs.

    Now that the threshold of Western arms transfers has been lowered, more countries could donate tanks from their own stocks, and Ukraine could be given the tools needed and what it has long been asking for to win this war. These powerful weapons would be a vital and timely addition.

    To paraphrase Mark Twain, reports of the tank’s demise have been greatly exaggerated.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/1/18/dont-believe-the-hype-tanks-are-still-vital-for-ukraine

  184. @The Anti-Gnostic

    Touché! That was a fabulous riposte!

  185. HA says:
    @Cagey Beast

    “In Odessa, men change into women’s clothes in order to go grocery shopping…”

    Yeah, seems totally legit. Most people who trying to slip conscription decide they might wanna lay low and find someone else to do the grocery shopping. But not this guy, who — wouldn’t you know it? — just happened to have a dress and a wig in his size just lying around the flat. I mean, what are the odds? And so, he decided to slip then on and do a grocery run, because he knew no one would notice him, especially not the conscription police. Like, that’s only possible explanation for why he just had to get into that dress.

    Yeah, seems totally legit!

    • Replies: @Cagey Beast
  186. HA says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    “Up until a couple years ago nobody thought that Russians living in Ukraine weren’t Russians. Zelensky grew up in Krivoy Rog…”

    Yeah, up until the moment Putin decided it was a good idea to start tearing off chunks of Ukraine, and then doubling down by outright invading and smashing up the rest of it, it was a safe bet that he could have easily swayed Ukraine to do his bidding without a single shot being fired — you know, just like how the Russians tell us that Nuland was able to turn the Ukrainians towards NATO, and just like he had almost done once before with Yanukovych. Given all that common history, and all those Russian speakers in Ukraine, that would have been so much easier and was eminently doable.

    So yeah, some real genius your boy Putin turned out to be. I’m guessing that when his Delphic oracle foretold that he would someday be known as the man who “forged a nation”, he stupidly assumed she was referring to Russia.

  187. @Hypnotoad666

    Meanwhile, the Russians have spent the last six months mobilizing a new army of 400,000 well-equipped and well trained forces which aren’t even engaged in the fighting yet.

    Where did you learn that? Russian State TV? Moscow Macgregor?

    Russia has been launching human wave attacks with conscripts and prisoners. They are foolishly sending them out before training them properly.

    Russian soldiers demand better equipment

  188. @Hypnotoad666

    Meanwhile, the Russians have spent the last six months mobilizing a new army of 400,000 well-equipped and well trained forces which aren’t even engaged in the fighting yet.

    Where did you learn that? Russian State TV? Moscow Macgregor?

    Russia has been launching human wave attacks with conscripts and prisoners. They are foolishly sending them out before training them properly.

    Russian soldiers abandon their position and demand better equipment

    Note all the mismatched fatigues and boots.

    This is not a properly equipped military and the conscript quality will only get worse.

    • Replies: @stari_momak
  189. @Voltarde

    Jacob Dreizin’s recent post offers some informed insight:

    I don’t know who that is but he doesn’t know what he is talking about:

    The German Leopard and British Challenger 2 (as well as the U.S. Abrams) tanks are all at least 62 tons in weight (as much as 75 tons for the fully-armored Challenger)—at least 16 tons heavier than the heaviest Russian/Soviet tank.

    They CANNOT be transported or evacuated by any Soviet-model trailer/flatbed, thus, all such equipment would have to come from Europe or the USA.

    Why would Leopards have to be transported on a Soviet flatbed?

    They run on diesel fuel and can go 45 mph.

    Drop them off the train and away they go.

    I looked over Jacob’s blog and he seems unhinged and obsessed with homosexuals. The pro-Putin side really attracts some quality posters.

  190. @YetAnotherAnon

    Thank you, that is an astounding post. I’ve clipped and stored it, something I never do.

    I’ve had vaguely similar thoughts at times, but never worked them out and written them down.

    Advent of farming, surplus, a population that finds it costly to flee, can be exploited by more mobile predators. A stationary predator shifts from war to class and privilege. In the last few days I saw a new archaeology article claiming frequent war and bloodshed over centuries among the first farming waves in Europe.

    Empires, settler colonialism, especially in the empty grasslands of North America, Australia, and several pockets. For the Americas, empty because of the Columbian Exchange (crucially, disease destroying 95% of the native populations), vast tracts of cheap land open.

    European workers have an exit option, increasing their bargaining power. Workers in the Eastern U.S. have an exit option to the Western U.S., increasing their bargaining power.

    After Napoleon, the necessity of a citizen army to succeed as an ambitious state.

    The Bolshevik threat from 1917-1989.

    End of cheap land. End of Bolsheviks. Nuclear stalemate and hybrid warfare reducing boss’s dependence on a citizen army. What is workers’ only remaining bulwark? The citizenist state. Being destroyed by globalist institutions, mass migration, information control.

    Marxism, which was nearly dead in workers’ movements before 1917, dominated it thereafter, denying it an environment for the emergence of a more authentic, localist, citizenist ideology. Marxism-Leninism: globalism. Neocon heirs: globalism. Their woke puppets: globalism.

    I’m not confident of the last step of your presentation. I agree with it emotionally. If the globalists aim to destroy the Russian Federation and open that space to a frenzy of looting, as Ukraine has been since independence, that can’t be good for me. At the same time I don’t see how a Russian-China-Iran axis could be much good for me either. What tips the balance is that the neocons (not an ethnic category) want the Ukraine war. Everything the neocons have done in the past has hurt me in the U.S. and millions of others overseas, for no good reason. After the lesser Bush, everyone said no more Iraqs. And now the neocons launch another Iraq? Why would anyone trust them this time around?

    My friends who automatically opposed Iraq war? Most now automatically support Ukraine war. The difference is information control.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    , @Corvinus
  191. Yahya says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    No, because among the Europeans nation trumps religion. Historically & culturally, German lands are German, and no ethnic type of other Christians need apply.

    So you are just going to perform mental gymnastics to justify why Germans shouldn’t be colonized by non-Germanic Christians; but then come up with arbitrary reasons as to why half-European mongrel Yiddish-speakers had a right to colonize pure Middle Eastern Semitic lands (two can play this game).

    With Jews in Israel, the situation is clear: They are a people who had been kicked out of their ancestral land ca. 1900 years ago

    So the Ethiopian and Yemeni Jews in Israel were kicked out 1900 years ago, were they?

    And the Palestinians who are being expelled to make space for incoming Poles, Russians, Yemenis etc. don’t have a right to return to the land which their ancestors have been inhabiting since the historical record began?

    Various Arabs living in Palestine/Israel have populated that area in the past 1400 or so years.

    You missed my post on Palestinian and Jewish genetics a few threads ago. Otherwise you wouldn’t have made such a blatantly false statement.

    establish a nation-state in their ancestral homeland..

    Why don’t they establish a nation in their ancestral homeland of Germany, Greece or Italy?

    Do Italian-Americans have a right to return to Italy; kick out all the existing inhabitants, and establish a nation for themselves on Italian soil?

    They clearly are not historical people of that region in any particular sense as Jews are

    Lol, because all I think about when I look at a picture of Netanyahu is “wow, look how Middle Eastern this guy is. Looks like every other Middle Eastern person I know”. He doesn’t look or behave like a European at all; because you see the Jews were able to maintain their genetic and cultural purity for 2000 years. They didn’t change a single bit.

    Meanwhile the Palestinians are just total aliens to Palestine. They look more Chinese than Middle Eastern. Their whole culture was imported from a far away land called Arabia. Even their language is a ghastly tongue belonging to the alien Semitic branch of languages. Unlike the Ashkenazi Jews who spoke a High Germanic tongue that came from right next door to Palestine.

    wanting to either kick the Israelis out or to ethnically swamp them & reduce them to a defenseless & humiliated minority, the only solution is status quo.

    The unfairness of ethnically swamping natives and reducing them to a minority on their land! Only a Palestinian would ever think of carrying out such a ghastly scheme. Jews would never.

    • Agree: Post-Postmodernist
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
  192. anon[514] • Disclaimer says:

    BB753 #178

    “Saddam used to be a US ally. I’m sure he believed he deserved Kuwait after waging war against Iran for nearly a decade. But the US has only one bestie: Israel. ”

    Whether he thought he deserved Kuwait or not, he asked April Glasby if the US would mind him kicking a little Kuwaiti butt, as they were slant-drilling under the border to steal Iraqi oil. She told him, in effect, what you do in your backyard is your business. “We” set that guy up. Twice.

    • Agree: HdC
  193. Yahya says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    Regardless, your issue isn’t with me; it’s with nature.

    The point of civilization is to subdue nature and make existence more palatable to human beings.

    The Mesopotamians got the ball rolling and multiple peoples have carried the baton since.

    A key advancement made over the past 70 years was to reach a consensus whereby nations were not, in fact, allowed to grab other state territories, just because they were stronger. Might did not make right.

    Most nations have actually abided by this principle. European nations dismantled their empires. Middle Eastern nations (save Israel) have not expanded their borders. Even sub-sharan nations by and large, despite their borders being dictated to them, have not provoked much wars in an effort to change them. Only a few exceptions like Saddam’s grab of Kuwait occurred; and they were punished swiftly.

    The times have changed; and nature has changed along with it.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @Mike Tre
  194. Valestein says:
    @Twinkie

    Annexation by force of arms has been illegal under international law since World War II.

    Both Koreas, India(Goa), Israel, North Vietnam and China(Tibet) clearly didn’t get the memo.

  195. Anon[231] • Disclaimer says:
    @HA

    “If that were true, the United States wouldn’t have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan…”

    Remind us when the US annexed Iraq and Afghanistan — did someone stitch two extra stars on the flag without telling anyone?

    Afghanistan – 2001
    Iraq – 2003

    • Replies: @HA
  196. Anon[231] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I haven’t learned anything new here in I don’t know how long, and I regret half the comments I post. It’s time for me to graduate from this class and move on…

    You are one of the best commenters on isteve.

  197. anonymous[420] • Disclaimer says:
    @International Jew

    I meant that Königsberg was taken in a war of defense.

    There was nothing defensive about Zionism.

  198. @The Anti-Gnostic

    While I very much agree with your analysis on the whole, I do believe a point of clarification is in order. It’s not that the chosenites (like jackie boy) have a visceral attachment to the Ukraine; rather, it’s that they have a visceral hatred for Christian Russia.

    • Agree: Peterike
  199. Twinkie says:
    @nokangaroos

    All this misses the point – of course the Poles in theory need a reexport license

    It appears that the German defense minister indicated publicly that Germany would allow Poland to transfer its Leopard 2’s Ukraine.

  200. Twinkie says:
    @anon

    But Korea can produce Hyundai/Kia export hardware to countries on a budget.

    The South Korean K2 Black Panther is the most expensive tank currently.

  201. Twinkie says:
    @AnotherDad

    NATO has been revivified by Putin. NATO was basically just a “last war” bureaucracy lumbering on in the way that bureaucratic parasites always do. (Who wants to actually work for a living?)

    But Putin pissing all over the 1991 post-Soviet borders has given NATO a real purpose and new life. Now even Cold War neutrals like Sweden and Finland are–rightly–applying to join up.

    Fortunately–my read, which could be wrong–I think this whole debacle is Putin’s.

    I agree wholeheartedly.

    Prior to this war, I rated Putin’s governance and statesmanship highly – after all, he strengthened the Russian economy and defense after the collapse of the Soviet Union and tangibly increased the Russian standard of living. My evaluation of national leaders is based on a rather simple criteria – has he left the country in a better shape than he found it? And he had… until this war.

    This war has been a severe miscalculation on his part and something of a disaster for the Russian state. Remember the great debacle of our Iraq War (which I frequently refer to as our “Sicilian Expedition”)? Well, the US Army lost 150 armored fighting vehicles (tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, and armored personnel carriers) in eight years of fighting in Iraq. In contrast, the Russian army has lost over 3,000 AFVs in eight months of fighting in Ukraine. And let’s not forget the really vital asset in force generation and projection – the tens of thousands of trained personnel that once manned those vehicles (as John Boyd once said, “people first, ideas second, hardware third”).

    I often quote Edward Luttwak about the logic of power versus force, which is that the use of power often begets more power, but the use of force consumes it. Well, Putin decided to employ direct, coercive force rather than power and influence to bend Ukraine to his will, and it has backfired spectacularly and has consumed a huge amount of force.

    I am not one of these fools, idiots, or the insane who claim to be able to predict the future. I don’t know what the future holds, but I think sober observers can tell that the war has dealt a severe blow to the Russian state, and it is considerably weaker now than when it started the war (this, of course, doesn’t mean someone else – e.g. Ukraine or the United States – is winning, as war is one of those phenomena that are often negative-sum).

    Putin often bemoans the collapse of the Soviet Union has a historical disaster for the Russian people, but he seems to have forgotten that it was Chernobyl and the failed Soviet invasion of Afghanistan that dealt a crippling blow to the Soviet Union.

    • Agree: mc23
    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
  202. Voltarde says:
    @John Johnson

    Why would Leopards have to be transported on a Soviet flatbed?

    They run on diesel fuel and can go 45 mph.

    Drop them off the train and away they go.

    Loading an M1A2 Tank on a Trailer

    “The North Carolina National Guard loading an M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank onto a military tractor trailer after finishing up in the Columbia South Carolina Veterans Day Parade.”

    Gee, last I heard, North Carolina is right next to South Carolina. Why didn’t the NC National Guard just barrel on up the highway in their M1A2 tank?

    Also, maybe in the field tanks sometimes break down, lose a track, or whatever? When that happens, how does the tank get to the nearest railhead?

    It’s too bad you don’t appreciate Dreizin’s blog. The only thing he’s “obsessed” about is free speech. Keep reading him, you might learn something.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  203. @John Johnson

    something, perhaps, related to recovery vehicles capacity?

  204. Market value
    how much would China pay for state of the art
    1)UK challenger 3
    2)USA Abrams
    3)French LeClerc
    4) Leopard 3

    Manuals and some spares included.
    I read that UKR may be, perhaps, a little corrupt…… might a donated tank/manuals/spares somehow go missing and end up in China? If China invades Taiwan, then might we face our own tank technology?

  205. @Daniel H

    “You nailed it Steve, Who vs Whom is the name of the game.”

    I used to watch that show religiously, when I was a wee lad. It had revolving stars–Tony Franciosa, Gene Barry, and Robert Stack, but the secret star was Susan St. James, as ditzy secretary (yes, they called secretaries “secretaries,” in those days) Peggy, who was in every episode. It had Dave Grusin’s jazzy theme, and the equally jazzy opening graphics.

    • Agree: 36 ulster
    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
  206. @Dave Pinsen

    A German professor makes a similar point.

    • Replies: @Frank McGar
    , @Dieter Kief
  207. @Twinkie

    I think it makes more sense, at this point, to think of this conflict as the Russian-American War, rather than the Russian-Ukrainian War.

    Putin never expected the U.S. to enter the war, because he never thought it would turn into the biggest money-laundering operation in history, with fake president/real gangster Joe Biden and comedian/gangster Volodymyr Zelensky both robbing the American taxpayers and stuffing their respective pockets with tens of billions of counterfeit U.S. greenbacks.

    “Why Vladimir Putin Invaded the Ukraine: Get this Free, Four-Chapter Book!”
    https://nicholasstixuncensored.blogspot.com/2022/02/why-vladimir-putin-invaded-ukraine-get.html

  208. @Nicholas Stix

    Why do I keep losing the opening theme?!

  209. HA says:
    @Anon

    “Afghanistan – 2001
    Iraq – 2003”

    Again, I will remind you, that the US, as you well know, doesn’t claim a single hectare of Iraq and Afghanistan as “theirs”. It does not claim that the Iraquis and Afghanis are simply deluded Americans having been fooled into believing in a distinct nationality by a consortioum of fascists, freemasons, papists and the rhymes-with-you-know-whos. The star count on the US flag remains the same as it was before we embarked on a new millennium.

    But hey, if you insist on drawing parallels between the US’s meddling with Afghanistan, and Russia’s landgrab in Ukraine, be my guest — especially given how the former boondoggle ended.

    • Replies: @stari_momak
    , @Anonymous
  210. Twinkie says:
    @Yahya

    The point of civilization is to subdue nature and make existence more palatable to human beings.

    This is not bad, but it’s an intermediate step. The end goal of civilization is to allow us humans to transcend – however ephemerally and fleetingly – the animal part of our nature and to build that which are sublime and beautiful.

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  211. @John Johnson

    He’s not wrong though – the immense weight and added complexity of these tanks introduces severe logistical constraints when it comes to mobility (especially in more rural/less-developed areas in the Donbas, where the infrastructure is less reliable/predictable). Unless NATO countries are willing to commit large numbers of their own experienced people to the field for logistical support (which would be a huge escalation), it will take several months to properly train Ukrainian troops to operate and maintain these things, and even then there’s the real-world experience that simply comes with repeated exposure. It could be 6 months to a year before they are able to use these effectively in large numbers, and then of course there is the question of supply.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    , @Jim Don Bob
  212. @Cagey Beast

    Valentine day is coming up soon – maybe do another Dresden to get the point across?

  213. @Jack D

    Midwits fixate on Putin because they don’t understand that no Russian leader in the last century would have tolerated the Ukraine being turned into a forward outpost of a foreign military alliance aimed at Russia.

    • Agree: stari_momak
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    , @HA
    , @Jack D
    , @AndrewR
  214. @Frank McGar

    Ukraine, like Iraq formerly, has become a ticket-punching depot for Deep State careerists. Awful class of people.

    • Agree: Mike Tre
    • Replies: @Frank McGar
  215. @Yahya

    Sorry, but your entire line of reasoning is complete nonsense. You don’t understand anything. You don’t understand the notion of national identity; you don’t understand history; your imaginary mixture of “race” & “culture” has nothing to do with reality.

    In sum, you are not capable of a qualified discussion & continuation of this exchange would be useless. I wrote a few comments on the topic & I’ve not much to add.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/land-acknowledgment/#comment-5646265

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/jury-takes-2-hours-to-find-carjack-murderer-not-guilty/#comment-4689322

    • Troll: HammerJack
    • Replies: @Yahya
  216. @Twinkie

    I agree. It’s wrong when the USA does it, as with the 1999 NATO attack on Serbia to break off Kosovo. The 2003 invasion of Iraq was wrong. Inciting the Georgian attack on breakaway Ossetia in 2008 was wrong. Inciting the Ukrainean uprising in 2012-13 was also wrong. It’s still wrong when Russia does it.

  217. @Colin Wright

    I believe that Steve has mocked the BDS movement or at least the acronym. I am not sure if Steve cares about the free speech implications of suppressing BDS, and how it could be extended to him. Steve has said that he is and will remain selective about what battles he fights

  218. jinkforp says:
    @Jack D

    I agree. The more creaky the US gets, the more of a threat it is to world peace. The regime has to invent enemies to to maintain its legitimacy.

    Discard

  219. jinkforp says:
    @John Johnson

    Tracked vehicles have a practical lifespan of about 5000 miles. The tracks are good for about half that. At 6000 miles we were required to send our tanks back for a rebuild. We were glad of that because by that age they were a pain in the ass to keep running, and we were happy to get a new one.

    The point being is that they wear out quickly even in peacetime. Unless the Ukes are getting brand new tanks, they are likely to average 2500 miles on them, halfway through their designed service life. And if the generals sending them off have any sense, they’ll send their oldest vehicles and keep the newer ones. Driving them another 500 or 1000 miles to the front will cost you 20% of them due to breakdowns, without allowing for any Russian interdiction.

    So yes, they will need to sent tank transporters along.

    Discard

    • Thanks: Dave Pinsen
    • Replies: @John Johnson
  220. @Dave Pinsen

    Make the structural look personal.

    (TV news shows need a villain.)

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  221. @Dave Pinsen

    “The Ukraine War is About Germany . . . The power that professed to protect them left no stone unturned to crush its dominant position in Europe (Emmanuel Todd — Google Translate)
    Note. this article appears in the mildly right wing Swiss weekly Die Weltwoche – no German mainstream publication even mentioned it.

    https://bachheimer.com/images/PDF/In_diesem_Krieg_geht_es_um_Deutschland_Weltwoche_7.1.23_Emmanuel_Todd.pdf

    btw. twitterer and blogger eugyppius has left his career in academia and tries to live from his substack articles now – good luck!

  222. @John Johnson

    The paid actor in this vid forgot his lines at the end.

  223. @HA

    So the US has figured out a more subtle and sophisticated way of gaining control of resources, mostly to benefit its own private companies rather than the nation as a whole. Not seeing that as so much of an advancement. In fact I rather prefer a good old fashioned land grab.

    Now, in the specific case of Ukraine, there are plenty of citizens of Borderland that don’t have to be convinced they are Russian. Because… they are Russian. You don’t fight eight years against an increasingly armed and fanatic regime for nothing. But yeah, there’s a good portion of the Russian speaking Ukrainian population that has bought the propaganda that began *even before the Soviet Union broke up*.

    You might remember a few months ago when a RT interviewer rightly got in trouble for saying that Ukrainian kids should be drowned. But to me what was interesting is that he was reacting to his interviewee talking about being in hospital in Lemborg (Lviv) in the 80s and hearing all these Russian speaking kids, offspring of Soviet officials often born in Russia or elsewhere, talking about how great Ukraine would be if only if it wasn’t for ‘Moskovite’ domination.

    That’s what you get from propaganda. And frankly most of the audience hereshould understand it. If you are of a certain age (maybe a bit younger if you went to catholic school like me), the Civil War was presented at least in part sympathetically to the south, that there were real economic reasons for the war and also a concern for states rights. You might also have been taught that sectional reapproachment was a good thing. And that General Sherman was, on balance, a bad guy. Well, it only took a decade or two to wipe out that narrative in favor of the South was only about slavery, that it should have been crushed after the war, that reconstruction was too easy on them, and that any vestige of Southern honor must be destroyed. Well, a similar process has been underway in Ukraine for decades…starting before the Soviet breakup. A radical and untruthful rewriting of ‘Ukrainian’ history, totally lacking in nuance and any recognition of the close ties between Russia and what is now ‘Ukraine’.

    • Replies: @HA
  224. @AnotherDad

    “NATO has been revivified by Putin. NATO was basically just a “last war” bureaucracy lumbering on in the way that bureaucratic parasites always do.”

    Since the end of the Cold War NATO has interfered in a hard fought civil war, bombed Yugoslavia/Serbia, acted as a recognized terrorist organization’s Air Force (both tactical and strategic), bombed Libya–destroying a stabilizing government there. In the process it has taken control of two pseudo-states. That’s just official NATO stuff, leaving out all the mischief that NATO powers do jointly (Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan). The idea that NATO was some sleepy bureaucracy is just wrong. It’s a military organization and, like Chekov’s gun, you put a military organization in a scene and it has to be used.

  225. Bill P says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Russia controlling Crimea, Donbass and Luhansk makes it a danger to the Wolfowitz/Brzezinski strategy.

    I know. The “New Silk Road” is real. Russian dominance of the Black Sea will greatly diminish the power of the United States by opening up a trade route impervious to US naval power. The infrastructure is being put in place as we speak.

    It’s why the Chinese are all in for Russia in this war. Our elites’ hubris drove the Russians into an alliance with China.

    Honestly I don’t see a good outcome for Americans either way. After winning the Cold War we pissed everything away and it was only a matter of time before we faced a reckoning.

  226. @New Dealer

    Thank you for your kind words – I didn’t think I’d expressed myself very well, but I hope I got my main point across that the 1945-2000 period was an extremely rare and unusual one in Western history, and not the norm as we Boomers who grew up in it seem to believe.

    After all, Tom Joad’s California was less than twenty five years before Brian Wilson’s, and in the UK the 1932 Hunger March was only 30 years before the Beatles first hit single.

    “At the same time I don’t see how a Russian-China-Iran axis could be much good for me either. “

    Probably the least worst option, the worst (other than nuclear war) being total US dominance. Remember the history – elites, and especially elites who have nothing racially, religiously, or culturally in common with ordinary folk, generally don’t care about their wellbeing until they discover they need them as cannon fodder.

    Elites deindustrialised the UK and US – they can reindustrialise them if they’re scared enough.

    I think they’ve left it a bit late with China, and to me those billionaires boltholes in New Zealand look pretty vulnerable. Some good screenplays to be written where the hired hand jet pilot takes his family, mates and the oligarch’s pretty daughter, leaving the oligarch on the runway as the Chinese ships approach.

    • Thanks: Houston 1992
  227. @Twinkie

    “The end goal of civilization is to allow us humans to transcend – however ephemerally and fleetingly – the animal part of our nature and to build that which are sublime and beautiful.”

    In that case neither the US nor UK are anywhere near being civilisations….

    todays Mail

    I’m a psychologist and these are 13 reasons why people DON’T want to get married anymore – and why staying single makes you happier

    Dr Max Blumberg, a relationship psychologist and chartered member of the British Psychological Society……

  228. Yahya says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    You don’t understand the notion of national identity

    No; it is you who has a weak notion of national and ethnic identity. You think that just because Jews practice circumcision and don’t eat bacon (something that Palestinians also do) that means they possess continuity with Ancient Hebrews; thus having a stronger claim to the land. But you don’t really understand the nuances of Jewish or Israeli history.

    Israeli is a phony, inauthentic, inorganic, artificial entity. Its existence spans only 75-some years. The original Hebrew culture is different from both the current culture of the Zionist entity, and the deracinated culture of the Ashkenazim. As a Jewish commentor here once told me, “Modern Jews are detached from the genuine Hebrew aesthetics, ethics, and outlook”.

    Hebrew language,

    The contemporary Hebrew is a forced, manufactured and artificial tongue. During the 1960s they changed the pronunciation from the original to that of the Yiddish style, essentially destroying the melodic and poetic character of the authentic Hebrew. Nevermind that when the Ashkenazim were sharpening their knives; getting ready to boot the Palestinians; they spoke a High Germanic dialect, not Hebrew. David Ben-Gurion grew up among a Yiddish-speaking community in Poland. He wasn’t born into a Hebrew-speaking community. He knew no Semitic language well into his adulthood. He had to learn it as though I would have to learn French or Mandarin. Enoch Powell probably had a better grasp of Hebrew than Ben-Gurion. Yet you think somehow he and other Yiddish-speaking Ashkenazi Jews maintained continuity with their ancestors 3,000 years ago?

    Rabbinic Judaism, the main form of Judaism practiced today, only became mainstream in the 6th century CE. It is only slightly older than Islam; and about 500 years younger than Christianity.

    Jewish music & musical instruments

    Lol, Itzhak Perlman conducting a Beethoven symphony with the Israeli Philharmonic Orchestra just screams “continuity” does it? Oh and the Klezmer style of music; so ancient and Israelite. I’m sure Abraham himself composed some of these tunes.

    Israeli settlers/colonizers dehumanizing and pushing local Arabs out of their ancestral lands- it doesn’t matter that historical ancestors of contemporary Jews lived there 2000 or 3000 years ago (following that reasoning English Saxons should have the right to occupy German Saxony etc..) Pure and simple ethnic cleansing, more than apartheid, all in the name of religious fairy tales

    Your comment in “Land Acknowledgment” is wonderfully common sensical and just. Such a stark contrast to your recent comments. I wonder why you have shifted you reasoning?

    But anyway, as you mentioned, Israel was borne more out of security needs than anything else. Very few – bordering on vanishing – Jews had any desire to “return” to Palestine before WW2 and the Shoah. They moved there because it was a refuge from the carnage and slaughter in Europe. Even then, many of the Ashkenazi preferred the US over Israel. Same went for Mizrahi Jews; whose presence in Israel is almost exclusively a result of Arab states pushing them out; not their own volition. Even then, many of them also chose France over Israel.

    So how can you with a straight face say that Jews possess more historical memory and emotional attachment to the land; when many of them had to be “dragged through the mud” to move to Israel? Meanwhile, the Palestinians have been fighting a lost cause for nearly a century now; putting their every effort to remain in their land, even when subjected to apartheid conditions and a GDP per capita that rivals sub-Saharan Africa.

    The artificiality of Israeli society, and the lack of continuity between the various Jewish populations, can be demonstrated by the constant threat of civil war that hangs over Israel. Once again, the only thing keeping them together is security needs; they have no common sense of identity. Watch this video of a conversation between a Moroccan and Russian Jew:

    If they both possessed continuity of culture and identity with their forebears; there would have been no fissures between them. But it’s evident that their sojourn in different places throughout the previous 2,000 years has created enough of a gap. That they force themselves to speak Hebrew and eat humus doesn’t make them a real people.

    Just watch videos of Isaac Herzog or Bibi Netanyahu; do they really strike you as being Middle Eastern or Levantine in any meaningful sense? You think these are the same people as Abraham and Moses? They look like Slavs and behave like Germans. Their parents were born in Poland, Germany, Russia etc. They cannot point to any specific ancestor who lived in Palestine by name. It’s all “well Jews were here 2,000 years ago” as if the Jews of antiquity are the same Italian-looking bunch they are. Then look at a group of Palestinians:

    You think these people are alien newcomers to the land?

    I don’t support the expulsion or maximalist aims of Palestinians regarding Jews. I think the Holocaust business was sufficient reason to allow Jews to remain in Palestine. But everyone needs to be clear on who the land rightfully belongs to – and it isn’t the people whose fathers were born in Poland and Germany.

    • Thanks: BB753
    • Replies: @BB753
    , @Post-Postmodernist
  229. @The Anti-Gnostic

    Russian philosopher Nikolai Berdyaev wrote in his autobiography that, while in France during WW2 as an exile, his chief method with dealing with people about Nazi/German – Soviet/Russian war was: Do you want Russia to be defeated? And Russians subdued & enslaved?

    If yes- nice to meet you sir, I don’t want to have anything to do with you.

    My principle is the same.

    Do you want Ukraine to be defeated? And Ukrainians subdued & enslaved?

    If yes- nice to meet you, sir. I don’t want to have anything to do with you.

    https://qr.ae/prHWKX

    • Replies: @The Anti-Gnostic
  230. Who designs a tank to fight the Russians that can’t go uphill in the snow?

    https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/new…

  231. HA says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    “no Russian leader in the last century would have tolerated the Ukraine being turned into a forward outpost of a foreign military alliance aimed at Russia.”

    Prior to Putin swiping Crimea and setting up his little mafia statelets in Donbass, only a paltry proportion of Ukrainians (less than 20% or so) would have thought favorably of joining said military alliance.

    In fact, pretty much the same could have been said for Finland and Sweden, which tells those of us who aren’t Putin stooges like yourself that Putin is indeed the one who turned all that around.

  232. @HA

    I think you’re right. I think what we’re witnessing is a Ukrainian trans woman enjoying a bit of that freedom Putin hates so much.

    Glory to the heroes! Glory to Ukraine!

    • Replies: @HA
  233. Gordo says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Your elites hate you. Why aid them? If they think it’s important to aid rump Ukraine, then of one thing you can be sure – it’s important not to.

    Totally agree.

  234. Anonymous[862] • Disclaimer says:
    @Colin Wright

    Jews used to own a lot of property in Ukraine, especially in the big cities (Lvov, Kiev, Odessa). They have no chance of recovering these assets if the country falls back under Russian rule.

  235. @Voltarde

    Gee, last I heard, North Carolina is right next to South Carolina. Why didn’t the NC National Guard just barrel on up the highway in their M1A2 tank?

    I was talking about Leopards.

    Abrams are expensive gas hogs and you don’t normally run tanks on highways in peacetime. They will tear up the road.

    But in a war situation it doesn’t matter.

    It’s too bad you don’t appreciate Dreizin’s blog. The only thing he’s “obsessed” about is free speech. Keep reading him, you might learn something.

    Polish Leopards are on the way and there will soon be videos of Ukraine utilizing them.

    Keep watching, maybe you and him might learn something.

  236. @Jack D

    So the International Criminal Court, the UN, it’s all a joke?

    Isn’t that just what both many Zionist apologists, as well as many apologists for US foreign policy* respond when confronted with charges that their sacred State has violated international law?

    *Admittedly, two categories that typically overlap.

    In the recent Hanania: “Why the Media Is Honest and Good” thread, you wrote,

    Just what I thought. All the self determination talk is instantly forgotten the instant the shoe is on the other foot. People in Syria and Chechnya can’t have self determination because they would pick crazy mujahadeen,

    What about the Palestinians, when they voted for Hamas?

    [MORE]

    [Returning to the present comment of yours]

    International law does exist. It’s aspirational, it’s not always enforced or enforceable but that doesn’t mean it’s nothing.[…] Does a “moral order” exist[…]? […]it exists as something that civilized people aspire to.

    Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy.

  237. Mike Tre says:
    @Citizen of a Silly Country

    “It would take the Ukrainians at least six months to learn how to use these tanks. Also, who’s going to maintain them. How are they going to get enough shells?

    The whole thing is a joke.”

    This is why I thought that all of the hysteria from neocons and Rinos about the US military abandoning all of that hardware in the Afgan withdrawal was asinine. Don’t get me wrong, it was certainly another aggravating reminder that our government sees fit to just piss away billions of tax payer dollars due to evil and incompetence or both.

    But tanks and helicopters need trained operators, as well as preventative maintenance, parts, fuel, ammunition… all of those things being immediately finite in Armpit-istan. That stuff will likely have already been stripped and retro rigged into providing electricity for shacks and or other primitive uses.

  238. @jinkforp

    The point being is that they wear out quickly even in peacetime. Unless the Ukes are getting brand new tanks, they are likely to average 2500 miles on them, halfway through their designed service life. And if the generals sending them off have any sense, they’ll send their oldest vehicles and keep the newer ones. Driving them another 500 or 1000 miles to the front will cost you 20% of them due to breakdowns, without allowing for any Russian interdiction.

    You’re speculating on the condition of the tanks.

    There are train stations within 100 miles of the front.

    The Ukrainians don’t care about long term use.

    So yes, they will need to sent tank transporters along.

    Well that pro-Putin blogger said they won’t be getting tanks because of transportation problems.

    I am pointing out that they could utilize tanks even without trucks to carry them.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @jinkforp
  239. Mike Tre says:
    @Yahya

    “The point of civilization is to subdue nature and make existence more palatable to human beings.”

    Not really. The destination to your statement is what we have today: Races taught to hate themselves and the transsexual movement. Subduing nature, indeed.

    Instead, Civilization itself is the continued understanding of human nature as it relates to technologically development. This is what makes existence more palatable to human beings.

  240. Anonymous[862] • Disclaimer says:
    @Frank McGar

    Unless NATO countries are willing to commit large numbers of their own experienced people to the field for logistical support (which would be a huge escalation)

    Yes, this is what the Ukrainians want, not tanks. As others have pointed out Western tanks would be of limited utility in Ukraine, and the Ukrainians certainly know this. Their real desire is to embroil Western armies directly in the war.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  241. @The Anti-Gnostic

    They are the worst. One thing I did not see coming is the left’s love affair with COINTELPRO. I guess the marketing strategy of offering good paying jobs to Latinx DREAMER single moms and LGTBQwerty people worked. Plus they get to target and ruin the lives of MAGA bros who write mean tweets.

  242. AndrewR says:
    @Redneck farmer

    I’ve been saying for years that these big corporate media outlets are legitimate military targets given their role as the unofficial propaganda ministry of the illegitimate rogue terrorist regime.

  243. Jack D says:
    @John Johnson

    The Ukrainians have been very flexible and creative because they are fighting for their national existence. They are not deterred by hide bound bureaucratic obstacles such as you might find in the Russian Army (or for that matter the Pentagon). Where there’s a will, there’s a way. They have done all sort of stuff that people (especially pro-Russian bloggers) said it wasn’t possible for them to do at the beginning of the war.

    Probably they will bring the tanks as close as possible by rail (any flatbed rail car would work) and then if they can’t improvise or don’t receive suitable tank transporters along with the tanks themselves, they will just drive them overland to the front. They are not going to drive them all the way from the Polish border – they are going to take them by rail (to some unloading spot that is beyond Russian artillery range) and then go from there.

    If you are looking for excuses NOT to do something, there is an endless list of reasons why something is “impossible” but if you are motivated then you find ways to make the impossible possible. The Ukrainians are not idiots – if they are asking for tanks then surely they have a plan to deploy them to the front. All these geniuses who now say that it’s “impossible” are guarantied to look like idiots in the spring when the Leopards magically appear at the front.

    • Replies: @jinkforp
    , @Anonymous
  244. @Frank McGar

    Tanks get 4 gallons to the mile.

  245. Jack D says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    no Russian leader in the last century would have tolerated the Ukraine being turned into a forward outpost of a foreign military alliance aimed at Russia.

    First of all, “the” Ukraine was not anywhere close to joining NATO when Putin invaded and 2nd, thanks to Putin’s brilliant strategy, Finland, which has been neutral for almost 80 yrs (and Sweden too) IS being turned into a forward outpost of a foreign military alliance aimed at Russia. If Putin had done nothing last February, zero new members would have joined NATO but as it is, NATO is up two new members (and the Finland border is only 100 miles from St. Petersburg, far closer than Ukraine is to any major Russian city).

    Putin’s plan (had it succeeded) would have worked out pretty well for Russia. Probably the West (and especially the Germans) would have accepted the “coup” in Ukraine and returned to business as usual eventually. Ho, hum another coup in Kyiv. Yanukovich fled by helicopter to Moscow, Zelensky was supposed to flee by helicopter to Warsaw. It would have just been another version of what happened in the Crimea in 2014, which did not provoke any great Western response. They would have passed some meaningless sanctions and left it at that. There were numerous Russian interventions during the USSR – Czechoslovakia, Hungary, etc. – that all did not lead to war or to any great Western response. The Ukrainians were supposed to weep and wail as the tanks rolled into Kyiv as they did into Prague and Budapest and that would be it.

    If Putin had managed this, he could have indeed enshrined himself among the greats of the KGB.

    BUT, after the 3 day plan failed and the Ukrainians fought much better than anyone expected, there was no Plan B and there STILL is no Plan B. Putin apparently thinks that Plan B is just to keep pushing and pushing and eventually the West will lose interest and the Ukrainians will grow tired and Russia will win by outlasting its enemies, but I don’t think it’s going to work that way. Any “victory” that Putin still manages to grind out of this war will be a Pyrrhic victory anyway and Putin will always have a questionable place in Russian history – his legacy is already tarnished and nothing that happens from now on is going to put the shine back on it.

    • Agree: Twinkie
  246. jinkforp says:
    @John Johnson

    Yes, I am speculating on the condition of the tanks, as you are speculating. The average tank will be halfway through its service life, unless the NATOs send their newest and best. A trainload of tanks is a really juicy target, and even derailing the train, a simple task, will put them all on the ground. I can’t see the Russians letting a trainload get very far from the Polish border.

    The Ukrainians may not care about long term use but attrition, whether from Russian attacks or maintenance issues, will have its say.

    Discard

  247. jinkforp says:
    @Jack D

    “Where there’s a will, there’s a way”. Not necessarily. The kamikazes thought so. The Light Brigade though so. The men at the Alamo thought so. The Germans in the Ardennes in 1944 thought so. We might honor these men for their courage, they fought hard, but they lost badly.

    I do not know that any rail flatcar would work. Do Ukrainian flatcars have a 70+ ton capacity? And after a year of war, how many flatcars have they got? And trains are very vulnerable to airpower.

    I would not be so sure that the Ukrainians are not idiots. Most people are. Politicians in particular. And maybe the intent is to just throw the tanks away, in order that military contractors can make more money by producing new ones. And apparently there is a real issue over just how much of the stuff we give them gets where it’s supposed to. Admittedly, it might be more difficult to sell tanks on the Black market than fencing missile systems. Lots of hurdles before any of these Leopards see any Russian armor.

    Discard

    • Replies: @Frank McGar
    , @John Johnson
  248. @Frank McGar

    Couple of problems with your take:

    This Canadian media article pretty clearly assumes the audience knows Chrystia Freeland’s mother is Ukranian, see from the subtitle and start of the second paragraph “Ms. Freeland’s ties to Ukraine are no secret…” and much later “she spent her time traversing Ukraine, purporting to visit far-flung family members” instead of having to do a KGB directed heavier load of academic work because she was already fluent.

    And this was against the Evil Empire, truly the Enemy of All Who Live with by that time “40,000” nuclear warheads. Making this sort of low level trouble in the Protracted Conflict after its rulers has murdered so many including Ukrainians by the millions was a meritorious thing, especially since a Bad End at the hands of the KGB was certainly possible.

    Of course, the aftermath of wars are often the seeds of new ones. Here we can’t expect the Ukrainian Ukrainians to forget what was done to them, and with Lenin being the first Bolshevik leader and generally Russians following Stalin we can today excuse a degree of animus towards “Russia” in general. Moves that seemed smart in the Cold War like letting in foreigners like her mother became a liability after that war was formally over.

    • Replies: @Frank McGar
  249. @jinkforp

    I would not be so sure that the Ukrainians are not idiots. Most people are.

    American neocons (which now seems to involve most of the Democratic party oddly enough) have found their new class of warrior slaves. It used to be corn-fed guys from Nebraska, but increasingly these guys are dropping out, and ex-military guys who have seen the light are just pro Putin traitors now if they don’t support endless proxy wars. Now, Ukrainian soldiers have the full weight of the American propaganda machine behind them. They are the new GI Joes. So yeah, they are idiots for thinking America ever had their back. They are sacrificial lambs.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  250. @Colin Wright

    Israel’s “conquests” are basically self-defensive moves to preserve Israel from complete annihilation.

    That’s mendacious nonsense. Really.

    Disagree only WRT the Six Day War and the capture of the West Bank. Before then, the “neck” of Israel has only ten miles of defense depth and that’s just too little in the world of modern, call it WWII and beyond mobile war. A non-annihilation argument is made for capturing the high ground of the aptly named Golan Heights.

    A counter argument is Arab officered armies never posed a real threat of annihilation once Israel got established enough, certainly by the Six Day War (their grunts can be good or better, but Arab culture and governance ensures their officer corps are rotten, or to quote from memory Moshe Dayan generally, “The secret to my success is fighting Arabs.”)

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  251. @YetAnotherAnon

    A psychologist urging the goyim to not reproduce?

    Dr Max Blumberg

    Shocking!

  252. @jinkforp

    Yes, I am speculating on the condition of the tanks, as you are speculating. The average tank will be halfway through its service life, unless the NATOs send their newest and best.

    They’ll have new tracks and will fight until they are destroyed. It doesn’t matter if their engines have miles on them.

    That pro-Putin blogger is overthinking this.

    If a Leopard tank kills a hundred Russians then it is a huge success. Who cares if the engine blows at some point. The cost of the tank is $0 to Ukraine.

    A trainload of tanks is a really juicy target, and even derailing the train, a simple task, will put them all on the ground. I can’t see the Russians letting a trainload get very far from the Polish border.

    Well they let the HIMARs in along with T-72 tanks from various countries.

    What do you think they would hit the train with? Cruise missiles? Putin is launching Iranian 2 stroke engine drones at civilian areas in Kiev. He already wasted most of their cruise missiles in the initial attack. In case you hadn’t noticed he isn’t very good at war.

    • Replies: @jinkforp
  253. @Muggles

    “The Ukes aren’t going anywhere, they live there. The Russians don’t. ”

    Last time I checked they do indeed live there. Nearly 40% of eastern Ukraine is ethnic Russian and you can rest assured that they’re not going anywhere either. And that’s why this thing isn’t ending anytime soon. I still hold to my prediction that this will end with Russia controlling the territory east of the Dnipro River, including Sevastapol (with the latter serving as that permanent warm water port which Russia always coveted going back to the Romanovs).

    • Agree: stari_momak
  254. @jinkforp

    I do not know that any rail flatcar would work. Do Ukrainian flatcars have a 70+ ton capacity? And after a year of war, how many flatcars have they got? And trains are very vulnerable to airpower.

    LOL what do you think is going to happen? The Leopards are going to cross the Polish border and only at that point the Ukrainians will learn that they are really heavy?

    Ukraine had more military hardware than France before the war started. They are not some backwards Slav state that can’t figure out how to transport some modern tanks.

    A standard box car can hold 70 to 100 tons.
    https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/resources/equipment/railroad-equipment/

    That pro-Putin blogger should stick to writing about homosexuals taking over.

    • Replies: @jinkforp
  255. Jack D says:
    @jinkforp

    I can’t see the Russians letting a trainload get very far from the Polish border.

    LOL. The Russians have been unable to fly over Western Ukraine during this entire war because the Ukrainians have air defenses. The best that they can do is lob missiles from hundreds of miles away but you can’t lob missiles at a moving train from that distance because you can’t know where the train will be when your missile gets there. There are few if any reports of Ukrainian trains having been hit by the Russians. Much better to aim your missile at a power plant which is guarantied to be in the same place as it was when you launched the rocket, as long as you don’t mind committing war crimes.

    Rushists from the beginning of this war have wondered why it is that Russia has not disrupted the flow of Western arms over the Polish border into Ukraine. The Leopards would not be the first Western weapons to reach the front, not by far. The HIMARS have been wonderful weapons for the Ukrainians and despite the Russians claiming to have destroyed 40 out of the 20 HIMARS that we sent to Ukraine, there have been no reliable reports of any HIMARS actually having been destroyed. The reason that the Russians haven’t destroyed Western arms shipments is because they don’t have that capability and they aren’t magically going to gain that capability when the Leopards start to come. Enough with the copium.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
    , @jinkforp
  256. Jack D says:
    @Anonymous

    No, that is what Putin and the Putinists want. For Russia to be defeated by a bunch of Khokhols is humiliating but if they are directly fighting NATO then it’s understandable that they are evenly matched.

    Sorry you won’t get your wish. I promise you that NATO is NOT going to send troops to Ukraine in order not to give Putin an excuse to attack NATO territory. Ukrainians will be trained in the West. If necessary, broken tanks will be shipped to Poland and repaired there. But Americans are not going to be fighting inside Ukraine (so long as Putin does not attack any NATO country).

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
  257. @YetAnotherAnon

    ‘I’m a psychologist and these are 13 reasons why people DON’T want to get married anymore – and why staying single makes you happier

    Dr Max Blumberg, a relationship psychologist and chartered member of the British Psychological Society……’

    Sigh. Not quite always — but so often…

  258. @Jack D

    The reason that the Russians haven’t destroyed Western arms shipments is because they don’t have that capability and they aren’t magically going to gain that capability when the Leopards start to come.

    They’re not going to run a single train of Leopards anyways.

    They will come on multiple trains and covered so they can’t be identified by satellites.

    Derailing a train doesn’t work as well as it did during WW2. They can repair them a lot faster. They’d have to hit the tank with a cruise missile when the train is stopped. The odds of the Russians being able to do that are nil.

    Enough with the copium.

    Copium levels are off the charts after the Great Winter Offensive never materialized.

  259. roonaldo says:
    @Anonymous

    Just inverting the old saying “You can run but you cannot hide,” since the Democrat machine hides him away from the public but will not allow him to run again in 2024.

    What surprised me is the manner and timing of Joe’s downfall, because the document scandal will scuttle the SS Biden in no uncertain terms as Demrats abandon ship. It may cause a few more Biden faction insiders to go down with the creaking hulk, but that’s showbiz!

  260. @John Johnson

    Every overseas conflict the US has been involved in post WW2 has turned to shit. I don’t know if it’s copium. More like post (endless) war fatigue and skepticism that anything will be different this time.

    These Leopard tanks or whatever they are sending are just going to trickle in, just enough to keep the war going but not enough to win anything significant. That’s the goal (Sec of Defense has stated as much).That’s why the US isn’t going to be sending their tanks in any meaningful capacity. Then they can blame Germany or the EU for not doing enough. Win win.

  261. Wokechoke says:
    @John Johnson

    I’d guess at night. And on trailer rigs.

    The Russians probably don’t have the ability to strike at border crossings. But I’d guess they can scan the Dneiper bridges for transports and support vehicles on these heavies.

  262. @That Would Be Telling

    ‘Disagree only WRT the Six Day War and the capture of the West Bank. Before then, the “neck” of Israel has only ten miles of defense depth and that’s just too little in the world of modern, call it WWII and beyond mobile war. A non-annihilation argument is made for capturing the high ground of the aptly named Golan Heights.’

    …but this is an argument against the creation of Israel, not in support of its subsequent aggression.

    El Salvador is in a strategically indefensible position. That’s not grounds for it invading Honduras.

    Note, incidentally, that the only war Israel has fought in which it was not the aggressor was the 1973 war — and seeing as it was holding Egyptian and Syrian territory at the time, even that’s debatable.

  263. vinteuil says:
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I really wonder if the old adage that people are basically good is just crap. I highly suspect that people are basically bad

    People are basically tribal.

  264. @JimB

    I heard it was 500,000,000 troops.

    • LOL: Twinkie
  265. jinkforp says:
    @John Johnson

    It does matter if tank engines have lots of miles on them. They are extremely high maintenance. Why do they only last 6000 miles, max? What do you thing tank men do most every day? Check this, check that, top this off, grease that, replace this other thing. And you do it because if your tank fails you at a bad time, you are dead. Think of the most hateful POS car you’ve ever owned, and multiply by ten.

    How many HIMARs were sent, and how many arrived? Were they trucked? Do we know? And cruise missiles are just fine for destroying trains, which run on tracks, slowly, and can’t escape. And certainly train trestles are an even easier target. And we have no idea how many cruise missiles Russia has. We’ve been getting reports from the media since last summer saying they’re about to run out of ammo.

    That Russia may be using cheap drones against minor targets is no indication that they lack larger weapons. Why waste a .308 bullet on a rabbit, when a .22 will do? Do you send a battleship to fight PT boats?

    Discard

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  266. jinkforp says:
    @John Johnson

    That a standard American boxcar can carry 70 to 100 tons does not tell us if a Ukrainian flatcar can carry 70 tons. The German railcars that I saw years ago were much smaller than American railcars. They had a limited number of bigger flatcars, which could carry 52 ton tanks, just as they had dedicated flatcars to carry 70 ton Tigers during WW2. Are standard Ukrainian cars bigger than the German? I don’t know. And whatever experience Ukrainians have with shipping tanks, it is with Russian tanks, which are much lighter. The T-72 weighs 41 tons, 30 tons less than a Leopard 2.

    Discard

  267. @Bardon Kaldian

    I have no opinion yea or nay on the defeat of Ukraine or whether they pay taxes to the corrupt Russian government or their own equally corrupt Ukrainian government. It’s not my fight, you are not my countrymen, and I have only so much capacity for causes to rally around. Again, which group of Slavic/Jewish oligarchs rules a part of the world I know very little about and of which I’m frankly suspicious and don’t really care for isn’t one of them. That the US Deep State, which doesn’t even bother to defend my own American borders and cultural integrity and has lied and abused power repeatedly, is choosing sides in this fight only increases my cynicism and suspicion.

  268. jinkforp says:
    @Jack D

    I don’t pay much attention to news reports on the doings in Ukraine. Much of what is put out is clearly false on its face. And why believe a media that lies about everything else? I try to make sense of things using my own, limited knowledge. And I know something about tanks and something about railroads. A railroad track is a stationary target, and a heavy train will roll along at maybe 45 MPH tops. The shooters won’t know exactly where is is, but they’ll have a very good idea. A cruise missile is not an artillery shell, it can correct its course.

    Discard

    • Replies: @Jack D
  269. Anonymous[301] • Disclaimer says:
    @HA

    Again, I will remind you, that the US, as you well know, doesn’t claim a single hectare of Iraq and Afghanistan as “theirs”.

    Oh yes it did. It did in Afghanistan and Iraq, beginning in 2001 and 2003, respectively. It was forced out of Afghanistan in 2021.

    • Replies: @HA
  270. Anonymous[301] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D

    The Ukrainians have been very flexible and creative because they are fighting for their national existence.

    Their national existence will be destroyed by the GAE. If they are under Russia’s sphere, they at least have a chance.

  271. HA says:
    @stari_momak

    “So the US has figured out a more subtle and sophisticated way of gaining control of resources,…Not seeing that as so much of an advancement. In fact I rather prefer a good old fashioned land grab.”

    Got it. I didn’t bother reading the rest, but I think I have the gist: You think finding ways of getting what you want from other countries that does not violate the agreements your country and theirs previously signed, and doesn’t involve tanks and bombs and bullet-ridden corpses is “not that much of an advancement”.

    I’m just let that one sink in, and remember it the next time another one of the fanboys comes here to wish that we could just give peace a chance, or else, prattles on about how the killing must stop.

    • Replies: @stari_momak
  272. HA says:
    @Cagey Beast

    “I think what we’re witnessing is a Ukrainian trans woman enjoying a bit of that freedom Putin hates so much.”

    Oh, who are we kidding?

    Army’s First Trans Officer Indicted for Spying for Russia

    The U.S. Army’s first transgender officer and his wife, a Maryland doctor, were indicted on conspiracy charges Wednesday for allegedly attempting to transfer confidential military medical information to Russia.

  273. @HA

    We’ve used plenty of tanks and bombs and left plenty of bullet ridden corpses. See Syria, for example, where we still control the oil fields in the Northeast of the country. We simply install a ‘democratic’ government that lets us extract the resources we want. Been doing it since Smedley Butler’s days in fact.

    • Replies: @HA
  274. @That Would Be Telling

    Her Ukrainian ties are no secret, I’m fully aware of her history. That’s why I don’t trust her. She is bringing her generational, old-world grudges into N American politics. The Russia/Ukraine conflict (to paraphrase Goodfellas) is old greaseball shit that we can’t even begin to understand.

    Besides, one look at what the US has been doing for the last 80 years compared to Russia and it just makes a complete farce of the notion that the US is protecting democracy or whatever it claims to be doing. Hell, look at the nefarious shit the US Intel agencies do to their own citizens. Not to mention the cold hard fact that the CIA has been actively stoking conflict in Ukraine since after WW2. It’s all there in black and white for everyone to see: Project AERODYNAMIC, QRPLUMB, QRDYNAMIC (they kept changing the name but you can find the documents on the CIA’s own website). If you’ve never read about the CIA and how it does regime change in other countries, it can be shocking. If you have read about it, then what’s happening in Ukraine should come as no surprise. I’m sure in 30 or 40 years we’ll be able to go to the CIA website and look up Operation Maidan, or Project Victoria Nuland lol.

    Sure, fuck Stalin, I get it. But Freeland was in Ukraine almost 60 years after the Holodomor. Freaking Gorbachev was the leader at the time. Like I said, she was into settling old scores in far away lands and that’s fine. She was a young idealist/activist, a perfect useful idiot for the CIA. But leave that shit over there. Besides, only one country has dropped nukes on civilians and it wasn’t the Enemy of All Who Live. I think about that a lot. In fact, if you compare the actions of the Enemy of All Who Live to the actions of the US since the end of WW2, who is responsible for more death and destruction?

    • Agree: Renard, BB753
  275. jinkforp says:
    @John Johnson

    It takes a couple days in America to clear away a derailment, unless you get a lot of cars in the dirt. American locomotives weigh about 200 tons. Ukrainian locomotives, who knows, but they’re not going to be much lighter. You’re not lifting that with anything but very specialized cranes. Cranes that can be destroyed with follow on attacks.

    I don’t know that you can conceal tanks. There are giveaways. For example, the heavy loads need to be at the front of the train, for train handling reasons. You could, of course, put them at the rear, to fool observers, at an increased risk of derailment. You can minimize that risk by slowing down, but that’s another giveaway. I don’t doubt that Russia has more knowledgeable people than me looking at this.

    And do you imagine that Russia has no ground observers among the Poles? Perhaps unmanned observers? You seem to be counting on Russian failure and Ukrainian success. What if the dice don’t always roll your way?

    Discard

    • Thanks: houston 1992
  276. anon[413] • Disclaimer says:

    @Bardon Caldian #229

    “Do you want Ukraine to be defeated? And Ukrainians subdued & enslaved?”

    I thought they already were: Dictator Zelensky, you know?

    How come Putin didn’t “enslave” the Georgians when he thoroughly defeated them in 2008? Putin doesn’t want anymore to do with those Ukrainians who don’t want to be Russians than he did with the Georgians. And *nobody* who knows them wants to enslave the Galicians!

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  277. keypusher says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    The Ukrainians have been locked in a static war of attrition dominated by artillery. They have been outgunned (literally) by the Russian’s 8:1 advantage in guns and shells fired. The ratio of casualties and destroyed equipment has thus been running about 8:1 in Russia’s favor.

    Eight to one? What happened to ten to one? You’re getting soft.

    Of course, if there was really an 8:1 casualty ratio, or a 10:1 casualty ratio, or any of the other ratios you’ve posted since last summer, the Ukrainian Army would long since have collapsed and Kiev would not just be circling the drain, it would be halfway through the sewer system by now. I mean, if there have been 100,000 Russian casualties, there’d have to be 800,000-1,000,000 Ukrainian casualties. And there would be no UAF left.

    Right? This isn’t complicated stuff.

    Big Serge and his ilk push the attrition narrative because that’s the only way to pretend that Russia is winning the war. Trust me, they’d much rather point at a map and show big Russian arrows slicing westward. But they make do with the narrative they have, not the narrative they’d like to have. And people who are deeply invested in Russian victory gobble up whatever they put out.

    But even Big Serge, to his credit, is not claiming 800,000 Ukrainian casualties.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
  278. What gives America the right to tell Germany what to do?

  279. Twinkie says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    If you want to argue that a proxy war with Russia over the Ukraine is in U.S. interests, feel free, but clearly the U.S. government isn’t motivated by a Platonic adherence to international law and preserving stability.

    Preserving international stability is both 1) morally right and 2) in the interest of the United States and a vast majority of countries. I think it’s no brainer when the two coincide. It’s always thorny when the two are in conflict, so it’s a blessing when they do not.

    China and Taiwan have had a mutually prosperous, peaceful relationship for decades. The country provoking China on Taiwan isn’t Russia, but the U.S.

    This is nonsense. The United States has been crystal clear to the Taiwanese government that it opposes any declaration of independence and strongly favors the status quo across the Taiwan Strait. It’s the PRC government under Xi that has become increasingly aggressive about breaking the status quo and threatening Taiwan with military action. And this is also in the context of China violating the pledge of “Two Systems and One Country” over Hong Kong and making the Taiwanese nervous about Beijing’s intentions.

    Note that in this arena, the U.S. is the status quo power and China is the rising one that seeks to alter it.

    Who should punish us for what we’ve done in Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc.?

    This is, as another commenter put it, a tu quoque fallacy. And I rather think that our country has been punished for its Middle Eastern misadventures. As for Realpolitik, it seems that our political leaders have learned the lesson, because we now seem to be fighting by a proxy while the Russians are burning through their own people.

    I don’t agree with Jack D on a lot, but he is right about one thing – try to imagine a world in which Putin didn’t launch an invasion of Ukraine last year. Russia would be in a far stronger position and Putin’s legitimacy would be totally unchallenged, except for some inefficacious chatter in Western newspaper about “anti-gay authoritarianism.” He opted for force where power and influence would have worked better and now his countrymen (and Ukrainians) are paying a heavy cost for it.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  280. If you really support the Ukraine getting tanks, it’s time to flaunt your leopard prints.

  281. @Renard

    As you know, the US government will just “print” however much money zelensky wants

    This is true. But it turns out you can’t print artillery and tanks. And we are too bureaucratic to make stuff fast.

  282. @keypusher

    The estimates are that real KIAs are about 150K Ukraine and about 20K Russia.

    • Agree: stari_momak
    • Replies: @Keypusher
  283. @jinkforp

    Discard

    This appears at the end of every single post of yours that I’ve see thus far. Why?

    • Replies: @jinkforp
  284. @Jack D

    “Americans are not going to be fighting inside Ukraine”

    I would just love to know how many “desertions” US special forces have suffered in the last half dozen years.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/20/politics/ex-us-navy-seal-killed-ukraine/index.html

    An ex-US Navy SEAL, who deserted the American military nearly four years ago, was killed fighting in Ukraine, according to the Navy.

    Daniel W. Swift, who was a special warfare operator 1st class, was killed on Wednesday in Ukraine, the Navy said in a statement. Swift deserted the military on March 11, 2019.

    “We cannot speculate as to why the former Sailor was in Ukraine,” the Navy said.

    “We are in touch with his family and providing all possible consular assistance,” a State Department spokesperson said. “Out of respect for the privacy of the family during this difficult time, we have nothing further to add.”

    Swift joined the Navy in 2005 and completed the Navy SEALS training in 2006, according to his service record provided by the Navy. During his time in the military, he earned awards and decorations for service in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    His record also contains an unexplained break in service from the beginning of 2014 to the end of 2015. His last assignment was a West Coast Special Warfare Unit, which started in August 2016.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @Frank McGar
  285. BB753 says:
    @Yahya

    Thanks for the hilarious video.

  286. AndrewR says:
    @Dave Pinsen

    Calling Jack D a midwit is rather charitable.

    But yes, people tend to overestimate the importance of individual leaders.

  287. Keypusher says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    The estimates? Not any I’ve heard, and your Russian number is ludicrous. You’re just taking Big Serge’s number for Ukrainian casualties and dividing by your ratio. Because your beliefs determine your facts. It ought to be the other way around.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  288. Jack D says:
    @YetAnotherAnon

    If Swift was sponsored by the CIA, they were being really cheap:

    Swift showed up to fight in Ukraine with no equipment of his own other than his military smarts and enthusiasm, Thiemann said. “He only had one uniform…He used duct tape to tape armored plates to his chest and back to go on target until he was given a plate carrier,” said [his friend] Thiemann.

    https://nypost.com/2023/01/20/former-navy-seal-daniel-swift-killed-fighting-in-ukraine/

    I guess the idea that someone could volunteer to go on their own doesn’t occur to you.

  289. Jack D says:
    @Keypusher

    Nobody who is sane and unbiased thinks that only 20k Russians have been killed in Ukraine. Maybe 20,000 in the last month alone. If there were only 20,000 dead Russians, Putin would not have needed to declare a mobilization (and now possibly a 2nd mobilization). He would not have needed Prigozhin to empty the Russian prisons in order to recruit fighters for Wagner. He could have fought with the troops that he had last February. But of course he can’t since a large % of the original invasion force is now dead or wounded.

    If you are working from such crazy wrong #s, of course you are going to reach the wrong conclusions. But as you say the opposite is happening – first you reach your conclusions and then you make up numbers to support them.

    Oryx has documented the loss of 8851 Russian tanks, APCs and other military vehicles, plus various other losses (69 aircraft, 75 helicopters, etc.)

    https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

    Each one is documented with a photograph. This amount of lost equipment is inconsistent with only 20,000 deaths. Just the crew losses alone would account for that #, forgetting about infantry losses which are much greater.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    , @stari_momak
  290. 68W58 says:
    @Hibernian

    A few years ago the Army moved to “Combined Arms Battalions” (CABs) and away from Mechanized Infantry or Armor units of a similar size. When they did that, they moved the Armor course to Benning. There are still lots of light infantry units and units that call themselves “Armored Cavalry Regiments”, but the latter are essentially Stryker brigades now.

  291. HA says:
    @stari_momak

    “We’ve used plenty of tanks and bombs and left plenty of bullet ridden corpses. “

    But we didn’t in Ukraine. According to the troll conspiracies people like you keep peddling, it was just a basket of Nuland’s pastries and a few bags of Soros money that was enough to turn the Ukrainians towards NATO. Putin and his oligarch slush funds make for a much bigger Ukraine budget than what Nuland had in hers. Putin has plenty of pastries, too. And Nuland had to sit out for 4 years during Trump’s presidency. Despite all those disadvantages, the trolls repeatedly tell us she was still able to subvert Ukraine to NATO. And despite all his advantages, Putin decided tanks and bombs were the quick and easy alternative. You really think that worked out well for him?

    And now, pathetic little edgelord that you are, and as desperate as Putin to compensate for your receding hairline and saggy anatomy or whatever else you feel insecure about in your dotage — because that’s ultimately what this is all about — you come here pushing landgrabs as some refreshing alternative to diplomacy and tossing a few baskets of pastries around. You’re just dumb or senile enough to think that will make your side look good.

    • Replies: @stari_momak
  292. 68W58 says:
    @nokangaroos

    Your comment about the Poles wanting the Germans to disarm reminds me of a joke I once heard that I think sums up the Polish perspective:

    A Polish soldier is in a room with a German soldier and a Russian soldier. He has one bullet for his rifle and his bayonet-what does he do? He shoots the German before turning the bayonet on the Russian, do you know why? Because business must come before pleasure.

    • Replies: @stari_momak
  293. HA says:
    @Anonymous

    “Oh yes it did. It did in Afghanistan and Iraq, beginning in 2001 and 2003, respectively. “

    You show me that flag with 52 stars, and that speech by Bush or Obama telling us that #51 and #52 are Iraq and Afghanistan, respectively, and then you’ve got something. Until then, you’ve got squat, and you know it. Putin wants to tell Ukrainians that their national identity and their entire country are just historical fringes of Russia, and always have been. Whereas even China and India, his so called “allies”, to this day admit that Crimea belongs to Ukraine.

    “It was forced out of Afghanistan in 2021.”

    Just like Russia was forced out some decades earlier. Hey, it happens — the Russian meatgrinder is not nearly as invincible as the trolls would have us believe, and without copious Western aid, Stalin’s Soviets might have lost to Hitler himself. Whereas this time around, that Western aid is going to Ukraine. Those are the historical parallels you might want to brush up on, as opposed to fictitious narratives about US landgrabs in Afghanistan.

  294. @anon

    How come Putin didn’t “enslave” the Georgians when he thoroughly defeated them in 2008? Putin doesn’t want anymore to do with those Ukrainians who don’t want to be Russians than he did with the Georgians. And *nobody* who knows them wants to enslave the Galicians!

    There is no need to speculate. Putin’s plans have already been leaked. He planned on colonizing all of Ukraine:
    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/putins-botched-plan-takeover-ukraine-28640877

    So yes they would be enslaved to the Russian system. No choice in the matter.

    Putin doesn’t believe that Ukraine should exist.

    He was going to turn the entire country into Russian territory which is what he did to LPR/DPR even though in March he decreed them to be independent Republics.

    One of his own propagandists just admitted it was a terrible plan and I can post that video if you would like.

  295. @jinkforp

    It takes a couple days in America to clear away a derailment, unless you get a lot of cars in the dirt.

    Yes a derailment is just a weekend delay. Really not a big deal.

    It isn’t like WW2 where the Germans had extremely long supply lines and partisans were able to seriously disrupt the rail lines by blowing them in the Polish woods.

    I don’t know that you can conceal tanks.

    Well the Germans were certain in 1944 that you can’t conceal a massive offensive. And the Allies did just that.

    And do you imagine that Russia has no ground observers among the Poles? Perhaps unmanned observers?

    Poles traditionally hate the Russians but there are always spies at work. The Ukrainians will most likely ship them on multiple trains. They moved in HIMARs and 60 ton howitzers without any train attacks so I don’t see why you think this is so high risk. HIMARs were more of a threat than Leopards. But Putin probably wasn’t paying attention until they started hitting ammo dumps with them. Putin did the same with NLAWs and javalins. He didn’t seem to think they were a big deal until his tanks started blowing up. His megalomania seriously clouds his judgement.

    You seem to be counting on Russian failure and Ukrainian success. What if the dice don’t always roll your way?

    I would like this stupid war to end and Ukraine doesn’t win by losing 100k men and getting their borders back. Both sides ultimately lose thanks to a bitter old man who tried to play conqueror. Ukraine can win independence but it won’t be much consolidation to someone that lost a husband or son. Russia at best can win Eastern Ukraine. They just spent thousands of men to take a mining town that is in ruins. Russian kids that lost a dad won’t think it is a win that Russia gained a pile of rubble. Russia is underpopulated and actually has abandoned cities in the East. They don’t need land and their economy will shrink as a result of this war. Just a dumb move by Putin and he is too childish to admit it was a mistake.

  296. @jinkforp

    It does matter if tank engines have lots of miles on them. They are extremely high maintenance. Why do they only last 6000 miles, max?

    You’d have to provide some data for the Leopards. They are going to have much lower maintenance costs than the Abrams due to having a traditional diesel engine. I wouldn’t underestimate German engineering.

    But let’s say a tank has 3000 miles on it. So what? If that tank is used to kill a hundred Russians then it is a success. The cost of the tank to Ukraine was $0. They kill more Russians than if that tank crew had been infantry. So what if they leave it disabled in a field? Shrug. Ask for more.

    How many HIMARs were sent, and how many arrived?

    At least 20.

    They came by rail and yet we haven’t seen any footage of cruise missile attacks on trains. The Bradleys are currently being transferred by rail and Putin is most likely underestimating their attack power. They are not heavily armored but can take out a tank if they spot it first. They are extremely deadly against unsupported infantry attacks which is what Russia has been using.

    Were they trucked? Do we know? And cruise missiles are just fine for destroying trains, which run on tracks, slowly, and can’t escape.

    There is no reason to believe that Russian cruise missiles are accurate enough to hit a specific car. If they had a stockpile of cruise missiles then they wouldn’t be buying 2 stroke engine drones from Iran. The Iranians basically make drones out of lawnmower engines and Western commercial GPS chips. But more importantly Putin is clueless about war and is losing it mentally. He has been two steps behind everything the West provides to Ukraine. I guarantee the Bradleys will surprise him just like the HIMARs. He doesn’t seem to bother spending even 5 minutes reading about these weapons. Putin is no Stalin or Hitler. He is more like Nicholas II and doesn’t even bother researching the enemy.

  297. @Yahya

    Zionist nationalism is indeed artificial; reverse-engineered. Your post contains a number of valid and correct points, but also a number of errors and inaccuracies.*

    Israel was borne more out of security needs than anything else.

    Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro makes a compelling case that Zionism, the Jewish variety*, was actually created to supplant Judaism by Jews who had rejected it.

    [MORE]
    The security and religious rhetoric mask and sanitize those primary goals of the Zionist movement, allowing it to gain support among the Jewish masses, and even some great rabbis (most of the leading rabbis, though, vehemently opposed Zionism from its inception, and in all of its forms).

    (*Predated by the Christian variety.)

    Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro: Is Judaism a Nationality?

    * (You will forgive me for not elaborating here; the topic, to begin with, is not even tangential to that of Mr. Sailer’s blog post, and this comment thread is already well past the point of prime activity.)

  298. Jack D says:
    @jinkforp

    This assumes that the Russians know which train is carrying tanks, that the tanks are not camouflaged on the trains and/or moving at night, etc.

    As I said before, the Ukrainians have already received vast arms shipments from the West – hundreds of ex-Soviet tanks, HIMARs, howitzers, etc. and the Russians have shown no capability of being able to significantly disrupt these deliveries. The Polish-Ukrainian border is around 200 miles long with numerous rail crossings and endless possibilities for just driving stuff across (not to mention Slovakia, Hungary and Romania). The crossing points are hundreds of miles away from Russian held territory.

    Throughout this war, even in the very earliest days when Kyiv was partially surrounded, the Ukrainians maintained the ability to move very high value targets (e.g. Zelensky himself, high level foreign dignitaries such as Boris Johnson) in and out of Ukraine by rail. The on time record of the Ukrainian railroads is still today better than that of British railroads. The Russians have not been able to damage the rail system in the way that they have damaged the utility system.

    If Russia had the capability of being able to disrupt tank deliveries they would have done so already, but they don’t have it. You don’t have to believe Western media reports but you also shouldn’t believe Russian blogger fantasies either.

  299. @YetAnotherAnon

    A classic case of sheep dipping if I’ve ever seen one. They don’t just let SEALS go AWOL for 3 years.

    • Agree: YetAnotherAnon
  300. Jack D says:
    @John Johnson

    The Iranians basically make drones out of lawnmower engines and Western commercial GPS chips.

    Actually they are a little more sophisticated than that but they do use components that are widely available and have non-military uses so that they are difficult to block.

    The engine of the Shahed 136 is not from a lawnmower but is a (supposedly) reverse engineered Iranian made copy of the German Limbach L550E, which is a 50hp 4 cyl. boxer engine (usually lawn tractors top out at 2 cyl.)

    The Chinese also make (presumably license built) copies of this motor, which sell for around $10k US.

    https://lim89.en.ec21.com/Limbach_L550e_UAV_Engine_Four--9786546_9786560.html

    This is a lot of $ considering that you could get a used Subaru engine for $1,000 but not much compared to the cost of a cruise missile.

    These can be used for civilian UAVs and even for ultralight passenger aircraft. The ancestor of these motors is not a lawnmower but the original VW Beetle.

    But is important to understand that the Iranians are serious enemies with serious capabilities, not just a bunch of clowns in a garage messing with lawnmower engines.

  301. jinkforp says:
    @Post-Postmodernist

    Every few weeks the computer rejects my name, and I don’t know why. “Discard” was my screen name for years until it was rejected, maybe a year ago. “Jinkforp” is simply baby talk, but it suffices, until it doesn’t. “Barglerips” or something like that was my last name. The “Discard” signature is there to allow some continuity, so people can exercise some judgement about my credibility.

    I am not Tiny Duck with a new mask.

    Discard

  302. @Jack D

    Actually they are a little more sophisticated than that but they do use components that are widely available and have non-military uses so that they are difficult to block.

    The engine of the Shahed 136 is not from a lawnmower

    Well it was a tongue in cheek statement. I’m not saying they were actually pulling lawnmower engines. Even if you were to build a drone from a pulled 2 stroke engine you could do better than a lawnmower.

    It was a reference to their use of 2 stroke engines which has been cited in reports like this one:
    https://www.technology.org/2022/09/23/how-to-identify-iranian-kamikaze-drone-shahed-136-in-the-air-video/

    But is important to understand that the Iranians are serious enemies with serious capabilities, not just a bunch of clowns in a garage messing with lawnmower engines.

    I don’t underestimate the Iranians and the Ukrainian use of hobby drones has shown that innovative use of commercial technologies can be very effective.

    My point was that Russia is desperate as evidenced by not only using them but targeting them at civilian areas. If they had a stockpile of cruise missiles then they wouldn’t be making deals with Iran.

  303. @jinkforp

    I am not Tiny Duck with a new mask.

    For which we are thankful….

    Suggestion: put some punctuation before “Discard,” typical is “- “, to denote it’s your signature. Like this:

    – That Would Be Telling

  304. @jinkforp

    “Discard” was my screen name for years until it was rejected, maybe a year ago

    I was hoping you were going to say you were that “I am Lugash” guy. Also missing: Svigor, Buffalo Joe.

    Not missing: Nate Diaz, Tiny Duck.

  305. jinkforp says:
    @John Johnson

    I did not make myself clear. In America, a simple derailment can be corrected in a couple days, with dedicated equipment owned by contractors who specialize in the task. Some derailments are not simple and take longer, due to the loads that were dumped or the landscape they are dumped upon. For example, righting a bunch of tanks that are turret side down.

    In 1944, the British were largely able to keep German aircraft from flying over their country. Ukraine is not able to keep Russian satellites from flying over, and the satellites are not limited to taking photos. Remote sensing has come a long way in the last 78 years.

    I don’t know about maintaining an Abrams. I know how much we worked at keeping our diesel-engines M-60s going. As for German engineering, try owning a German car. Much of it is pointlessly complex, as was much of Germany’s weaponry. My town has four BMW shops, and one guy who specializes in Fords, reflecting their respective maintenance needs.
    German tanks will require Teutonic levels of diligence to keep them running. Russian tank designers recognize that their tanks will receive Slavic care, and accordingly make them simple.

    A cruise missile does not have to hit a specific car to derail a train, any car will do. And the locomotives would be the easiest thing to hit, being big, at the front of the train, and having a strong heat signature.

    If a tank breaks down on the way to the battle, it won’t kill anybody.

    If I had a stockpile of cruise missiles I would still not waste them on targets that could be destroyed by a cheap, imported drone. The use of such drones says nothing about the availability of cruise missiles. Does the fact that WW2 submarines would use their deck guns on small craft mean that they had no torpedoes?

    Unless you have a day job with the CIA, neither you or I know how many HIMARs were sent or received or what damage they did or did not do. We don’t really know casualties for either side, nor the thoughts of the opposing commanders. Our own media, for example, shamelessly lies about anything race related, and pretends to believe that men and women are interchangeable. How would they not lie about this war?
    Which is why I try to limit my online opinions on the war to things I know independently of the news media. I know something about trains. They are vulnerable. I know something about tanks. They wear out quickly and require lots of attention, and if they break down in the field they are simply abandoned until third echelon maintenance can get to them. And immobile tanks destroy no enemies, they are simply targets.

    -Discard

    • Thanks: Jim Don Bob
    • Replies: @John Johnson
  306. @Jack D

    Each one is documented with a photograph.

    Bog Foot and the Loch Ness monster are also documented with a photograph. But seriously, anyone can take pictures of the same burned out T-72 from different angles or claim that it’s a Russian T-72 rather than a Ukrainian T-72. The bottom line, I guess, is that it mostly comes down to which side you trust more as a source: The institutionally pro-Ukrainian “mainstream” line, or the independent contrarian analysts.

    Time will tell.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  307. Jack D says:
    @Hypnotoad666

    But seriously, anyone can take pictures of the same burned out T-72 from different angles or claim that it’s a Russian T-72 rather than a Ukrainian T-72.

    Sure – it’s all Hollywood special effects, just like the moon landings. Those are really digital tanks, they don’t even exist. The CIA has spent billions on generating tens of thousands of fake photos and videos while in real life the cope cages make Russian tanks invulnerable to Javelins. They just bounce right off.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FN5xnGOXMAMs-EW?format=jpg&name=small

    There is a point where you are so invested in your beliefs that no amount of evidence, photographic or otherwise is going to convince you because you don’t want to be convinced.

    • LOL: John Johnson
  308. Jack D says:
    @Twinkie

    It’s important to understand that the war did not go at all the way Putin had planned. Had things gone according to the plan (Zelensky assassinated and regime changed, war over in less than 10 days with minimal destruction, etc. ) Russia WOULD be in a far stronger position – Putin would be universally admired in Russia and the West would have more or less shrugged its shoulders and accepted the fait accompli as they accepted the seizure of Crimea and the maintenance of the Lukashenko puppet regime in Belarus.

    So Putin gambled (on what he probably thought was a sure bet) and he lost his initial bet and now everyone is living (or dying) with the consequences. The problem now is that people (especially guys like Putin who are used to winning) don’t tend to cut their losses when they are on a losing streak. Their natural tendency when they lose is to double down on their bets, hoping that they can still recover some or all of their losses. This is where we are at now. Someone needs to drag Putin out of the casino or else he is going to keep playing until he is completely out of chips, except that he’s not playing with chips, he’s playing with the lives of Russia’s next generation.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @jinkforp
    , @Twinkie
  309. @Jack D

    ” the Iranians are serious enemies”

    They’re no enemies of mine, nor the Russians either. I wish them both well.

    My enemies are sadly the traitors closer to home, people who are elected promising to “take back control” of our borders, then hand out 1.1 million visas in a year.

  310. jinkforp says:
    @Jack D

    It’s the US that is on a losing streak, politically, militarily, economically and socially, and it is we who are not willing to cut our losses. I want to see Russia win, not because I care about the border dispute over there, but to derail my country before it drops into a canyon.

    -Discard

  311. It’s important to understand that the war did not go at all the way Putin had planned. Had things gone according to the plan (Zelensky assassinated and regime changed, war over in less than 10 days with minimal destruction, etc. ) Russia WOULD be in a far stronger position

    If it went as planned and they took Kiev they would indeed have been in a stronger position and could have negotiated a Western Free Ukraine / Russian Donbas.

    But the plan was to take it all and keep going to Moldova.

    He was going to snap up remaining non-Nato states and re-create Imperial Russia.

    That tells me he really didn’t understand the severity of the expected sanctions.

    To this day he and his Unz supporters don’t understand how dependent Russia is on Western technology. They have a deluded view of Russia as this economic fortress that doesn’t need the West. Worst case is that they call China for a replacement part. Well it doesn’t work that way. The Chinese don’t maintain clones of every single part created by Germans and Americans. So some fancy factory machine breaks down and they have to switch to manual labor. Well modern economies depend on machines. This problem will accrue over time as more machines break and they can’t simply replace the parts.

    Venezuela made the same mistake but Putin wasn’t paying attention. They snubbed their noses at sanctions but didn’t bother to shore up their dependencies. People were dying because they didn’t have access to Western medicine and the government just sat there like durr….ummmm….crap.

    • Replies: @PhysicistDave
    , @Jack D
  312. @John Johnson

    Anyone inclined to take this Fed John Johnson seriously needs to look at this post in which he falsely and maliciously quoted me as having said something I simply did not say at all.

    What this lying bastard did was cut-and-pasted a statement posted by a White racist and falsely claimed that I had posted it.

    I pointed this out at the time.

    He did not retract it or admit what he did.

    John Johnson is a pathologically lying bastard.

    A typical Fed.

    Legally, the Fed committed libel. Open and shut.

    Does anyone think it is worth suing the bastard?

    I am going to start going back and attaching a version of this note to every post John Johnson has made.

    • LOL: John Johnson
  313. @John Johnson

    Anyone inclined to take this Fed John Johnson seriously needs to look at this post in which he falsely and maliciously quoted me as having said something I simply did not say at all.

    What this lying bastard did was cut-and-pasted a statement posted by a White racist and falsely claimed that I had posted it.

    I pointed this out at the time.

    He did not retract it or admit what he did.

    John Johnson is a pathologically lying bastard.

    A typical Fed.

    Legally, the Fed committed libel. Open and shut.

    Does anyone think it is worth suing the bastard?

    I am going to start going back and attaching a version of this note to every post John Johnson has made.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  314. Women with East European family ties using us to get back at their ancestral enemies. Our “Anglo-Saxon” countries seem to love them for it:

  315. Jack D says:
    @John Johnson

    Germany’s “Bring me the broom of the Wicked Witch of the West” gambit did not work out (it didn’t work in the movie either). Ooops.

    U.S. Plans to Send [50] M1 Abrams Tanks to Ukraine, Officials Say

    Germany is set to send its sought-after Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine to help bolster the country’s war effort, Der Spiegel reported on Tuesday evening

    So instead of getting neither kind of tank, they get BOTH. This is really not what the Germans were hoping for but they really should have gamed the scenarios out both ways and not assumed that it would only proceed the way that they hoped.

    Galeev writes that the Russian arms industry is based 100% on German machine tools and software.

    At the end of WWII, the Russians hauled away every bit of manufacturing equipment that was left in East Germany. During the war they had evacuated a lot of Russian industry to the east and gained a lot of experience in hauling away complete factories by rail and setting them up elsewhere. This came in handy when they got to Germany. Lots of formerly German camera, motorcycles, cars, etc. reappeared as Russian made products. The E. Germans meanwhile were reduced to making cars out of cardboard (Trabants).

    But that stuff was seriously old. In the last 30 years, the deal has been to trade German machine tools for Russian oil. But that’s all over now. The Germans regret this almost as much as the Russians, even though they are not burning the furniture to stay warm and eating their pet hamsters yet like the Russians hope.

    • Troll: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @Twinkie
  316. @PhysicistDave

    Does anyone think it is worth suing the bastard?

    Definitely.

    I am going to start going back and attaching a version of this note to every post John Johnson has made.

    You need a weekend bender in Las Vegas involving magic mushrooms and a convertible where you wake up in a desert and realize that the Federal government may not actually be after you.

    I don’t normally suggest drugs but they are probably your best hope.

    • Troll: PhysicistDave
    • Replies: @HA
    , @PhysicistDave
  317. HA says:
    @John Johnson

    “Does anyone think it is worth suing. ”

    Definitely.

    Don’t worry, he’ll get around to suing you right after he has a “discussion with the police” about me. I’m sure he’ll get right on that, one of these days.

    Poor PhysicistDave. Clearly, he really has no idea of how things really work in America, least of all internet discussions. The way things are going, he’ll soon start to accuse HIMSELF of being a foreign agent, instead of most everyone else who points out how slippery his grasp on reality has become.

    • Troll: PhysicistDave
  318. @HA

    Wow, HA is privy to Nuland and USAID and all of the Soros concerns’ budgets. Such well connected people here.

    Yes, Putin had a ‘slush fund’ no doubt. But he was also offering Ukraine a huge loan the terms of which were public and the disposition of which could be monitored.

    ” And Nuland had to sit out for 4 years during Trump’s presidency.”

    Not seeing how this makes your case. If anything, putting Nuland back in the power apparatus was a signal that there was no deal to be reached with Washington (the EU doesn’t count). Pity the resources of hard working Americans and now, increasingly, the lives of deluded white American men are being expended in the pursuit of neo-con ideology (no, this isn’t about primarily about ‘Ukraine’, its about a sort of neoliberal world order).”

    As for the rest of your ‘thoughts’, well, pure ad hominem. I suppose you’re riffing on my internet monicker…but I’ve used the name since my mid 20s in various fora. Alas I am getting older, as we all are. But I think I’m pretty ‘well preserved’.

    • Replies: @HA
  319. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    the maintenance of the Lukashenko puppet regime in Belarus.

    I agree with your comment above, except this. I don’t think Lukashenko is a “puppet.” It would be more accurate to describe Belarus under Lukashenko as a client state of Putin’s Russia.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  320. @HA

    My little pal HAsbara wrote to John Johnson

    Don’t worry, he’ll get around to suing you right after he has a “discussion with the police” about me. I’m sure he’ll get right on that, one of these days.

    Well, we would have to extradite you first. Law enforcement is not willing to go to that amount of trouble.

    Yet.

    Seriously, little buddy, haven’t seen you around — I thought the Eastern Allies’ liberation forces had captured you and that you were standing trial as a neo-Nazi.

    Guess they haven’t.

    Yet.

    Happy New Year.

    May you live in interesting times.

  321. “they are not burning the furniture to stay warm and eating their pet hamsters yet like the Russians hope.”

    Dude, if you are going to critique Russian satire, at least get it right. The Hamster was powering the home with his little wheel.

    Waiting for the next round of dishwasher strikes.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  322. Twinkie says:
    @Jack D

    Galeev writes that the Russian arms industry is based 100% on German machine tools and software.

    It’s not quite 100%, but he is correct that the Russian heavy industry and manufacturing sector in general – including the arms industry – have been very dependent on Western tooling, robotics, electronics, and software. These are now largely cut off and the Russians have to rely increasingly on the Chinese, but the latter has been unable or unwilling to meet much of the Russian needs.

    This is one of the reasons why Anatoly Karlin (he of last year’s Russo-triumphalism) has been increasingly and tellingly Russian doomsterist in the recent months (going so far as to mention the possibility of the war ending with Ukrainian tanks in Sevastopol).

  323. @HA

    Poor PhysicistDave. Clearly, he really has no idea of how things really work in America, least of all internet discussions.

    Perhaps you might consider how some of your responses, both to PD as well as to any number of others, reflect upon yourself; upon your own state-of-mind; judgement; personality; character? Can you not see any irony?

    [MORE]

    Let us take the post of yours that you linked-to here, in which you savagely mocked and attacked PhysicistDave. The referenced posts of his would, sadly, indeed appear to be more than a little overwrought, even unhinged. But wouldn’t that, if anything, be a reason to exercise lenity, compassion and restraint toward him; not smug cruelness?

    On substance, in most of the heated exchanges I recall seeing between you and others, I have generally found myself to be at least closer to your stance than to that of your various interlocutors. On style, however, I have found you and them to be more alike than not (and than either of you would seem to realize). Wildly overwrought, hyper-hostile, puerile, petty, rife with utterly gratuitous personal insults that only detract from any substantive dialogue and debate. Any light is obscured by the furious, overpowering, insufferable heat. Downright ugly and even (at the risk of sounding overwrought or melodramatic myself) painful to witness.

    Not all that different from watching children or adolescents fight, really. Speaking of which…referring-to posts of yours in the thread you linked-to…

    What possible relevance could Scott Ritter’s erotic proclivities and activities, whatever they may be, have to his views on Russia vs. Ukraine (or WMD in Iraq, or any other topic other than one involving erotic proclivities or activities)?

    • Agree: William Badwhite
    • Thanks: Mark G.
    • Replies: @HA
  324. Jack D says:
    @Twinkie

    OK, fair enough. A client state is a country that is economically, politically, or militarily dependent on another country. That describes Belarus. That describes what Putin would like the Ukrainian rump state to be.

    Lukashenko himself is like a stock character out of Russian history – the clever peasant who outwits his master while pretending to be an idiot so that his master underestimates him.

    For example, Putin has been trying to get Lukashenko to send troops to Ukraine (the Russians would surely send them as “cannon meat” to get chewed up at the front) and while Lukashenko allowed the Russians to attack Ukraine from his territory he has so far resisted all of Putin’s entreaties to send troops. He dodges and weaves and feints and makes it look like he is ABOUT to send troops mañana (lately they have been doing joint training with the Russians) but somehow he never actually sends any (at least so far).

    But certainly he does not have the freedom to do whatever the hell he wants – for example if he announced that Belarus was joining NATO Putin would have him out of there in a flash. He is like a dog on a leash who can run around the yard a certain amount but not beyond the length of his chain. This was true of all the E. European satellites in the USSR period – there was a certain amount of room but if you crossed some red line Moscow would send the tanks.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  325. HA says:
    @stari_momak

    “Wow, HA is privy to Nuland and USAID and all of the Soros concerns’ budgets.”

    I’m just pointing out that even according to your own loony conspiracy theories we’re left the implicit admission that Nuland was able to outfox Putin and turn the Ukrainians towards NATO with little more than a basket of pastries. No landgrabs of any kind were needed. I.e. the 4d chessmaster himself was schooled by a mid-level schoolmarm of a bureaucrat who had to take a 4year time out. Cue the sad trombone womp-womp.

    I rather think it was Putin’s decision to dismember Ukraine and then swallowing it whole that made the Ukrainians realize how stupid it was to ever trust the “Moscals” who bring Ukrainians nothing but grief, as Shevchenko so presciently put it. That was far more important than any canniness on Nuland’s part. But it’s not so difficult to look smart when you have Putin and his KeystoneKops retinue making a mess on their end. You want to admire that? Fine by me. But it’s no wonder the Russians are losing the propaganda war so badly.

    You won’t believe me, but you’re far better off keeping your warmed over Genghis Khan tough-guy routine to yourself, or whatever captive audience you find at that small table in the corner where crazy uncles are asked to sit whenever Thanksgiving rolls around. The lamentation of your dead enemies’ widows and concubines may be the best thing in life to you, but most of the rest of us have found better ways to make it through the week.

  326. Jack D says:
    @stari_momak

    • Replies: @stari_momak
  327. HA says:
    @Post-Postmodernist

    “What possible relevance could Scott Ritter’s erotic proclivities and activities, whatever they may be, have to his views on Russia vs. Ukraine…”

    Well, there is the fact that he was TWICE convicted for said proclivities, almost a decade apart. You don’t think that bespeaks a certain lack of judgment? Or at least an abject inability to wake up and smell the coffee? You and he can defend or extenuate or compartmentalize photo sharing one’s junk to parties who explicitly identify themselves to be 15-year-olds, and insist it isn’t that big a deal, but come on. At some point — and that point should have been well before getting busted THE SECOND time — he really ought to have realized it was time for a new hobby. Do you really fail to grasp that, to the extent that I have to explain it to you? But no, you want to overlook all that or brush it aside and instead complain about my heated tone? Interesting set of priorities you got there. PhysicistDave has no problem condemning every single thing about every one of his opponents, no matter how irrelevant, though you can’t seem to be bothered to notice that. To the extent that I want to raise an eyebrow at the convicted sex offender he’s flakking for, it’s fair turnabout.

    And if you want to accuse someone of using “overwrought” language, to the point of seeming “unhinged”, maybe you might want to similarly rein in florid passages like “wildly overwrought, hyper-hostile, puerile, petty, rife with utterly gratuitous…”. I mean, did you flail your arms around over your head when you were writing all that, for added effect? That’s pretty much the visual I’m getting.

    [MORE]

    Finally, the fact that you choose to clutch your pearls at my “overwrought” prose, but evidently want to stick up for Scott Ritter, and on top of that somehow managed to overlook PysicistDave’s buddy who defends Ritter by pointing to some “mainstream” kink (at least according to him) involving grown men who fantasize about dominating those roleplaying as pre-schoolers, well, that tells me all I need to know about your self-professed closeness to my stance. No, don’t kid yourself — you and I have somewhat different set of priorities. (There’s a little understatement for you, given that you only seem to enjoy overwrought language when you yourself are spewing it.)

    As for PhysicistDave, he has willingly dug himself into this hole, and to the extent he thinks that libel suits and police protection will salvage his reputation — not to mention defenders who can’t help letting slip that their priorities are way out whack — then he is indeed slipping.

    • Replies: @Post-Postmodernist
  328. @jinkforp

    German tanks will require Teutonic levels of diligence to keep them running. Russian tank designers recognize that their tanks will receive Slavic care, and accordingly make them simple.

    Ukrainians will master German tanks and they will shrug at any maintenance.

    BMW/Mercedes have had quality control problems but German engineering on the whole is better than Russian.

    A cruise missile does not have to hit a specific car to derail a train, any car will do. And the locomotives would be the easiest thing to hit, being big, at the front of the train, and having a strong heat signature.

    So what? The train derails. A crane comes and picks up the tank. This is Thomas the Train stuff. Not that hard.

    The Nazis had train problems because they had long supply lines through occupied territory. The Ukrainians will shrug at a weekend delay caused by a derailment. Have a look at rail lines in Ukraine. A tank could drive to the nearest crossing.

    If I had a stockpile of cruise missiles I would still not waste them on targets that could be destroyed by a cheap, imported drone.

    Well Putin wasted most of his missiles trying to take Kiev.

    The use of such drones says nothing about the availability of cruise missiles. Does the fact that WW2 submarines would use their deck guns on small craft mean that they had no torpedoes?

    It isn’t speculation that he is short on cruise missiles. He was criticized by his own propagandist for wasting them on civilian areas. If he had thousands of cruise missiles then he wouldn’t be buying Iranian drones.

    Unless you have a day job with the CIA, neither you or I know how many HIMARs were sent or received or what damage they did or did not do.

    You asked for a figure and I gave you the official number. What else would you expect? The HIMARs are clearly causing major havoc as seen by the New Year’s attack.

    Our own media, for example, shamelessly lies about anything race related, and pretends to believe that men and women are interchangeable. How would they not lie about this war?

    They lie about race and gender because it is part of their ideology. That doesn’t mean they lie everywhere else.

    What do they need to lie about? It isn’t like race where they feel the truth can’t be told. Putin is a loser dictator and you can keep a live camera on him. It’s like covering the weather or a dog show. Putin has attacked civilian areas that were caught on dash cams. There is no propaganda needed. He is a psychopathic dictator and doesn’t hide it. There is no taboo narrative that needs to be maintained.

    There is no need to follow MSM news on the war. I follow independent European outlets and also keep close tabs on drone footage. Unlike previous wars we have a lot of footage directly from the soldiers. I really don’t care about what some CNN magic mulatto has to say on the subject.

    • Replies: @jinkforp
    , @stari_momak
  329. @Jack D

    For example, Putin has been trying to get Lukashenko to send troops to Ukraine (the Russians would surely send them as “cannon meat” to get chewed up at the front) and while Lukashenko allowed the Russians to attack Ukraine from his territory he has so far resisted all of Putin’s entreaties to send troops.

    Lukashenko has proven wiser than anyone assumed the last few years. Putin clearly wants him in the war but he hasn’t given in.

    But he is looking nervous these days. He is keenly aware that Putin might make a move to remove his throne and replace him with a pro-war puppet.

    His best move is to take out Putin first but that is of course unlikely.

  330. jinkforp says:
    @John Johnson

    There will be friction. Real trains are not HO scale. They are vulnerable. Simple interruptions can interfere with traffic hundreds of miles away. Putting things right is not Thomas the Tank Engine stuff. Complications arise. (Imagine, for example, righting a flipped tank with a turretful of loose 120mm rounds.) An as yet unknown number of German tanks will be lost to Russian action or to wear and tear on road marches, amplified by inadequate maintenance. They will never fire on Russian troops. I think that will be a high number, you think it will be a low number. Time will tell.

    Why do I think the media lie about this war? The US bombs people like Syrians and Somalis, subverts governments like Egypt and Libya, funds dictatorships like Saudi Arabia and terrorists like the Mujadaheen, and all of a sudden we’ve got our tits in a wringer over Russia taking over a couple Russian-speaking provinces in Ukraine? The same Ukraine that had Joe Biden’s son on the payroll? An honest media would have brought these things up. I could speculate why, but I might drift off into tinfoil hat territory. But the unanimity of mainstream opinion about some very doubtful policies tells me that there is orchestrated bullshit afoot.
    And video means nothing. I myself have seen dinosaurs come to life onscreen. I have watched Jawas fight Imperial storm troopers. I saw the Titanic sink. War footage is childs’ play.

    -Discard

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @BB753
    , @John Johnson
  331. anon[293] • Disclaimer says:

    @John Johnson #300

    “He was going to turn the entire country into Russian territory which is what he did to LPR/DPR even though in March he decreed them to be independent Republics. ”

    Doubtful. In 2014 both Lugansk and Donetsk held referenda in which the large majority of the voters of both Oblasts petitioned to be (re-) unified with Russia. Russia rejected the request. Russia then opted for the stall-for-time-so-the-Ukraine-could-arm Minsk agreements with the agreement-incapable West. These agreements, if they had been followed by the Ukies who signed them, would have provided for a certain degree of autonomy for the Oblasts *within* the Ukrainian state. As we learned recently from Poroshenko and Merkel, the only reason for Ukraine and Germany signing onto to Minsk was to stall.

    • Replies: @HA
  332. @John Johnson

    Our lying little Fed John Johnson wrote to me:

    [Dave] Does anyone think it is worth suing the bastard?

    [The Fed] Definitely.

    Well…. if that is what you really want.

    But I can only fulfill your wishes if you tell us your real name: obviously, “John Johnson” is an alias.

    And what address would be the best place to serve you with legal papers?

    Y’know, John, when you posted the lie, I pointed out right away that it was a lie.

    Indeed, I pointed it out multiple times.

    And it was obviously a lie from the get-go: the words you falsely attributed to me were the exact opposite of the position I have argued for consistently.

    But you only finally admitted it was false now, more than a month after the fact, when I made it clear that I was going to dog you on every single comment you post here, and you therefore decided to — finally! — admit that what you had posted and falsely attributed to me more than a month ago was not true.

    And you have still not offered any apology at all.

    So: if you really do want to be sued, dox yourself — what is your real name and your real address?

    Or are you afraid to say because you are actually afraid of being sued?

    Eh, Fed?

  333. @John Johnson

    ” If he had thousands of cruise missiles then he wouldn’t be buying Iranian drones.”

    Why not, they are cheaper. They have a different mission profile. They are probably less risky for Ukrainians too, as the Kyivan military doesn’t seem to try and fail to shoot them down with S-300s.

    Look, the Russians got a lot wrong. But so did the west. Every time the West or the Ukes open their trap about Russia ‘runing out of missles’ (first heard in March), the Aero-Space forces let loose with another salvo.

    “The HIMARs are clearly causing major havoc as seen by the New Year’s attack.”

    That was, as so much in this war, an unforced error on the part of the Russians/DNR forces. But if you compare the very real damage that HIMARs strikes were doing when they first entered the theatre (ammo depots going up every other day) to now, it is clear that the Russians have found ways to mitigate their effectiveness. It maybe, as they claim, that their PVO now has a good idea of their usual trajectory. It might be that the Russians and DNR/LNR forces are being better at dispersing and storying their ammo, it might be than significant numbers of launchers were taken out. But the HIMARS threat isn’t what it was. And that goes for most of the wunderwaffe in this war. Bayraktars seem to be pretty much a non-factor now. Switchblade ‘loitering munitions’ never were much of a factor though they were ballyhooed in late spring. Ditto with the 777s.

    Will these main battle takes be the key…I doubt it. Those of us of a certain age keep reliving Gulf War I in our heads…but that was the ideal territory and conditions for tank/mobile war. The icy, snowy, muddy fields of Borderland aren’t.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @HA
    , @John Johnson
  334. BB753 says:
    @jinkforp

    Some speculate that those Leopards will be sent to Poland ( which is the usual route for NATO to provide their Ukrainian proxies with weapons) but will stay there to reinforce the Polish army, which the idea to maybe push across to Western Ukraine or even worse, to invade Bielorrusia!
    There’s no way those tanks are going to the front lines in Eastern Ukraine anytime soon, for the reasons you mentioned.
    Some Poles are concerned about being the growing number of Ukrainian refugees, about the foolishness of Polish politicians dreaming about a Greater Poland and about being used then bled to death by NATO like the Ukrainians are.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  335. Jack D says:
    @stari_momak

    Yeah, who ever heard of a tank battle taking place in Ukraine?

    • Replies: @stari_momak
  336. In the past it would have been a big deal if the German Foreign Minister announced Germany was at war with Russia. Now days we just accept their Foreign Minister is unsure of the difference between a real and metaphorical war.

  337. HA says:
    @anon

    “In 2014 both Lugansk and Donetsk held referenda in which the large majority of the voters of both Oblasts petitioned to be (re-) unified with Russia. Russia rejected the request.

    Again, Russia wants ALL of Ukraine. Crimea can’t be “theirs” without also taking Kherson (which controls Crimea’s water supply), and Odessa for that matter. And once Crimea was swiped, it was inevitable and understandable that Ukraine would — for the first time — poll in favor of joining NATO, so hey, there’s yet another swell excuse to invade. The Russian trolls insist that any jockeying regarding Donbass was solely undertaken by the Ukrainians without stopping to realize that Putin too was also regarding it as just a staging ground, except the Ukrainians just wanted back what Russia had previously admitted as being within Ukraine’s borders, whereas Russia, as I’ve noted, would never have been satisfied with just Crimea.

    That’s in fact the primary reason for invading Crimea — if Crimea MUST be Russia’s due to whatever “existential threat” ramblings that make no sense any more from any military perspective, now that Turkey’s inclusion into NATO has rendered the entire Black Sea as irrelevant — then it’s primarily just a handy excuse for having to swipe all the rest of Ukraine’s coastline. The only other military reason for hanging on to Crimea is that once the coastline is “pacified” the base there can help with the full takeover of Georgia and Transnistria (and then Moldova), which is, incidentally, another good reason from NATO’s perspective of why it makes sense to keep all that well out of Russia’s grubby hands.

  338. HA says:
    @stari_momak

    “Every time the West or the Ukes open their trap about Russia ‘runing out of missles’ (first heard in March), the Aero-Space forces let loose with another salvo.”

    No, the hospital attack in Dnipro was definitely a “lucky” strike for the Russians, given how many babies and other civilians they got to murder, but the missile barrages have petered out. I suspect Zelensky was being optimistic when he said there were just a few big missile attacks left in their arsenal, and at some point the Russians will replenish their stores somewhat given enough time, but he seems to have been far more on the mark about that than you are.

    • Replies: @stari_momak
  339. Firing Line with William F. Buckley Jr.: A Princely Look at Russia and Eastern Europe
    Guest: Nicholas Romanov

    Recorded on February 22, 1990

  340. HA says:
    @Dmon

    “The Germans sent a whole bunch of tanks to the Ukraine in 1941. Did they ever get so much as a thank you note?”

    You really think they just passed them out to the Ukrainians to let them use as they see fit? And how much is a “whole bunch”? Does it compare in any way to what the Allies sent to Stalin — I mean, as in actually handing them over as opposed to manning them with Germans, pointing their turrets eastward and firing madly, which is what the Germans did with their so-called tanks sent “to the Ukraine”. Where’s the thank you note for that?

    By the end of June 1944 the United States had sent to the Soviets under lend-lease more than 11,000 planes; over 6,000 tanks and tank destroyers; and 300,000 trucks and other military vehicles.

    By that measure, Washington really needs to up its game:

    Washington is expected to announce the delivery of dozens of M1 Abrams battle tanks, Reuters reports, while Germany has finally agreed to offer its Leopard 2 tanks after weeks of uncertainty. …Writing on the Russian Embassy to the US’ Telegram, ambassador Anatoly Antonov accused Washington and Berlin of a “blatant provocation….It is obvious that Washington is purposefully trying to inflict a strategic defeat on us.”

    I dunno, Anatoly. Ya really think?

    • Replies: @Jack D
  341. Jack D says:
    @BB753

    The “some” who are speculating are all Rushists who assume that just because they have territorial designs on Ukraine, other countries must have similar territorial designs on it. Of course if you dig hard enough you might find a handful of Poles who dream about a Greater Poland but these people are far from the levers of power. I have heard speculation about Poland carving up the rump state of Ukraine after Russia has had its fill but 100% of the time, such speculation has come from the Rushist side.

    Poland is now well integrated into the EU and NATO and it is not politically or economically feasible for them to start grabbing chunks of other people’s territory. We have already seen the high price that Russia has paid for breaking the norms of civilized nations. Russia, in its vastness and oil wealth, can to SOME extent afford to make itself a pariah like this in exchange for all of that wonderful Ukrainian soil and the enduring glory of Putin as the new Peter the Great or something. Poland couldn’t begin to afford such a break even if they were so inclined, which they are not.

    This sort of 19th century land grab mentality strikes most people in the West (and Poland is now part of the West for better or for worse) as antique thinking that has no place in 21st century Europe. But to Rushists it seems natural that everyone should think in those terms since they do.

  342. Jack D says:
    @HA

    HA, with all due respect, it was a joke. The joke was that the Germans sent tanks all right, but as invasion forces, not as a gift.

    • Replies: @HA
  343. @jinkforp

    There will be friction. Real trains are not HO scale. They are vulnerable. Simple interruptions can interfere with traffic hundreds of miles away. Putting things right is not Thomas the Tank Engine stuff. Complications arise. (Imagine, for example, righting a flipped tank with a turretful of loose 120mm rounds.)

    Flipping a tank is not going to set off 120mm rounds. They require a striking hammer just like regular bullets. You can slam a rifle with a magazine full of bullets and they won’t go off. Pretty old tech.

    The same Ukraine that had Joe Biden’s son on the payroll? An honest media would have brought these things up.

    I am very critical of the MSM. It’s in my history. But that still doesn’t mean I will assume that they lie about every single story.

    In the case of race they lie to maintain a narrative that it doesn’t exist and Whites are to blame for everything. In the case of guns they lie about what common gun violence looks like. What is the narrative they need to lie about in regard to Ukraine? Russia is the aggressor? Well they don’t have to tell lies in that case. Putin launched the invasion and we have his leaked plans. Putin was trying to freeze the Ukrainian population by bombing power plants which is a war crime. That action is independent of Western media.

    I don’t trust the MSM but if they say that drinking paint is bad for your health that doesn’t mean they must be lying and the opposite is true. You aren’t thinking critically if you take the position that everything from the MSM must be false. That’s actually no different than the lib that believes everything on CNN. You are taking a position before determining what is true or false.

    There is plenty of non-MSM media that reports on the war. I don’t see why you are so hung up on the topic.

    And video means nothing. I myself have seen dinosaurs come to life onscreen. I have watched Jawas fight Imperial storm troopers. I saw the Titanic sink. War footage is childs’ play.

    No one is faking drone or cell phone video in a Hollywood studio. This is a real war and you can see the destruction in satellite images from independent sources.

    • Replies: @jinkforp
  344. @stari_momak

    ” If he had thousands of cruise missiles then he wouldn’t be buying Iranian drones.”

    Why not, they are cheaper. They have a different mission profile. They are probably less risky for Ukrainians too, as the Kyivan military doesn’t seem to try and fail to shoot them down with S-300s.

    Because his ego wouldn’t let him if he had plenty of cruise missiles. Putin is embarrassed to be using Iranian drones and is only doing so out of absolute necessity. It is similar to how he said there would be no conscription because the Russian military has plenty of soldiers. He is an ego maniac and doesn’t like to admit when he is wrong or when Russia needs outside help.

    He is actually going back on his word again. It was supposed to be a single limited mobilization and now they are planning on doing another one that is much larger.

    But if you compare the very real damage that HIMARs strikes were doing when they first entered the theatre (ammo depots going up every other day) to now, it is clear that the Russians have found ways to mitigate their effectiveness. It maybe, as they claim, that their PVO now has a good idea of their usual trajectory. It might be that the Russians and DNR/LNR forces are being better at dispersing and storying their ammo

    It’s funny you say that since Russia made an 18th century era mistake by having hundreds of men sleep on top of an ammo storage. That is why the New Year’s HIMARs attack was so deadly. They were sleeping on an ammo dump and the whole thing went kaboom.

    But the HIMARS threat isn’t what it was.

    The Ukrainians credited it with reducing the amount of artillery available for Russians at the front. The independent ISW noted a decrease in artillery after HIMARs was deployed.

    HIMARs has taken out multiple command centers with high level officers. Putin’s Muslim hit squad posted themselves on tiktok and the Ukrainians figured out which building they were in from the video. They dialed in HIMARs and kaboom.

    There is an intercept where a Russian talks about how some men sh-t themselves when HIMARs comes in. It has a distinct sound and there is no escape.

    The deadliness of HIMARs is no myth. It’s extremely accurate and can quickly mobilize after firing. The rockets use random patterns after launching to confuse counter batteries. It was designed for a war against soviet hardware and is working as designed. The limitation is the availability of rockets.

    • Replies: @HA
  345. ATBOTL says:

    Here’s what Igor Strelkov, the military commander who seized Crimea and lead pro-Russian forces at the beginning of the war in Ukraine has to say about these tanks:

    Strelkov Igor Ivanovich
    BURGA ABOUT TECHNICAL FAILURES

    Peskov called the idea of supplying Abrams and Leopard tanks to Ukraine a failure

    Oh, how it blew! Wow wow how!
    “For technological reasons, a failed idea”! What’s it like? – And you can’t argue!

    Now, if the Americans had promised to deliver to respected Kyiv partners “the best in the world” T-14-“Armata” tanks, then there would have been no “technical failures”. For one simple reason: Armata tanks do not exist in nature. They are the offspring of the Ministry of Defense and Rostec folklore (that is, everyone has heard of them, but no one has seen them). Accordingly, there can be no “technical problems” with the “Armata” due to the lack of the presence of the object.

    But “Abrams” and “Leopards” quite exist in thousands of copies and are en masse in service with many NATO countries. And, of course, they have technical problems. Which will now appear (along with tanks) and Kyiv partners.

    True, there is a suspicion that numerous technical problems (existing for all tanks without exception from the moment they appeared as a type of offensive weapon) will not prevent the Abrams and Leopards from fighting and inflicting losses on our troops. Again, unlike “Armat”, which cannot even theoretically inflict damage on the enemy. – For “a folklore element for the needs of cutting the budget of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation” and nothing more.
    RT in Russian
    Peskov called the idea of supplying Abrams and Leopard tanks to Ukraine a failure
    The idea of supplying Ukraine with American Abrams and German Leopard tanks is a failure for technological reasons, said Dmitry Peskov, press secretary of the Russian president.

    People in the “dissident right” need to focus on Russian language primary sources(including from inside Ukraine) or not comment at all about this war. The discourse on Ukraine in this sphere now is a flame war where no one cares about facts or truth. Both sides are talking past the facts and the “debate” has entered a self-referencing loop that bears no relationship to events on the ground.

    The DR knows as much about military affairs as CNN viewers know about human bio-diversity and race realism.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    , @John Johnson
  346. HA says:
    @Jack D

    Thanks, I get that — I suspect I’ll want to copy/paste those citations in the future, and therefore wanted them in my comment history, and the comment in question just happened to be the first first one outside the OP that explicitly mentioned “tanks”, and that was good enough for me. Besides, when it comes to anything in the comment section around here related to Nazis, no matter how obviously tongue-in-cheek it may be, I invoke Poe’s law as justification for assuming the worst. Let’s face it — if the Ukrainians really were fascist to the extent the trolls would have us believe, some of the very same people who are now pretending to be concerned about that — e.g. Stürmer Anglin — would instead be cheering them on for that very reason.

  347. HA says:
    @John Johnson

    “The rockets use random patterns after launching to confuse counter batteries. “

    And even though the HIMARS are huge (though all the decoy wooden ones are just as large), their rockets can easily be hidden away in a truck, buried underneath some drywall and sheets of plywood so as to be undetectable from the air. Even the Russians regard bombing every truck in Ukraine as prohibitive, in terms of munitions required, so putting those rockets out of commission becomes that much more difficult.

  348. Jack D says:
    @ATBOTL

    Girkin (alias Strelkov) is a war criminal (he is responsible for the death of 298 innocent civilians when Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was shot down under his command) but he is not an idiot. He certainly had some success in seizing territory for Russia using terror and underhanded means rather than head on combat. Putting aside questions of morality, these methods certainly resulted in fewer casualties (especially for the Russian side) than the current WWI style assaults that the Russians have been using with little success. Of course, Girkin’s favorite tricks are past their sell by date in Ukraine anyway and would not be any more successful.

    The political space in Russia is such that there is no room for criticism of Putin from the left, but critics to Putin’s right, such as Girkin, have been tolerated to a certain extent. But keep in mind that Girkin is tolerated because he is trying to push Russia not to stop the war but to fight even harder and more effectively. So while what he is saying is not factually wrong (meanwhile it’s Peskov’s job to minimize the importance of the Western tanks and call them sour grapes – Peskov himself knows that he is lying – lying is his job description) his reasons for saying so could not be more wrong.

    • Replies: @HA
  349. @ATBOTL

    People in the “dissident right” need to focus on Russian language primary sources(including from inside Ukraine) or not comment at all about this war. The discourse on Ukraine in this sphere now is a flame war where no one cares about facts or truth.

    How would that be a “dissident right” if dissenting voices are ignored unless they are in Russian language? You are suggesting we only follow sources that will be mostly pro-Russian.

    Which means you are suggesting that we should live in a bubble.

    Go live in your own bubble. Find a website that tells you exactly what you want to hear and doesn’t allow dissenting viewpoints. That is what the public wants, go join them.

  350. HA says:
    @Jack D

    “Girkin is tolerated because he is trying to push Russia not to stop the war but to fight even harder and more effectively.”

    Also, he and everyone else to the right of Putin serve as a poison-pill that Putin has concocted so as to avoid being assassinated by outside governments who suspect that even now, he is still better than the devil they don’t know.

    That strategy won’t end well for Russia, given their past history, and in particular the periods of instability and ruckus that follow a dictatorial ruler’s demise, but that’s of little concern to him. In fact, it’s a feature as opposed to a bug: “Oh, if only Putin were still alive, everything would be put right.”

    • Replies: @Jack D
  351. jinkforp says:
    @John Johnson

    Well, you go crawl into an overturned tank and fetch out the shells, some of which will be broken open. They are not indestructible. That’s why they come packed in wooden boxes, nested in plastic, two to a box. You’re not going to get a crane operator to right the thing when it still has ammo in it.

    The narrative the media supports is that we did not provoke this war by moving NATO east. That we did not decline to seek peaceful relations with Russia after the collapse of the USSR, but instead chose to kick them when they were down. That we did not interfere in Ukraine’s internal affairs by backing a coup in 2014. That the US is not the aggressor, that our government did not choose to piss away the “peace dividend” we hoped for. And of course, that Joe Biden is not on the Ukraine’s payroll. That’s the narrative.

    To not trust something is not to insist that everything it says is wrong. If the newsman says there was a tornado in Kansas, I’ll accept that. Why not? If the paper says an old Chinaman shot a bunch of people in Chinatown, I can believe it, because I know they really wanted to blame a White guy and are only telling us that it wasn’t (In the 11th paragraph, on the second page of the article) because they felt they had to. But I have no independent knowledge about the current goings on in Ukraine, and I don’t necessarily believe the non-MSM accounts either. But if it smells like cheerleading to me, pro-Russia or pro-Ukraine, I don’t accept it. It’s a judgement call, and I don’t insist I got it right. I simply have to wait and see what other things come up.

    Yes, it’s a real war, with real professional propagandists working for both sides. I know that I can’t tell a Russian tank from a Ukrainian tank, nor a Russian from a Ukrainian, and most people know far less than I. That’s how I can sometimes tell that videos are BS, because the intended audience knows nothing and I know something.
    Video evidence is no evidence, at this distance.

    -Discard

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  352. Jack D says:
    @HA

    Indeed the Rushists here often warn us that whoever comes after Putin will make Putin look like a moderate (so we had better keep Putin).

    Personally I doubt this. Beria didn’t last 3 months after Stalin died. Whoever is to Stalin’s oops, Putin’s right will be “revealed” to be a British spy or some such and tried and executed. Stalin’s death ushered in a relatively liberal period in Russian history.

    • Replies: @John Johnson
  353. @Jack D

    Didn’t the be tank battle take place in Kursk…i.e. farther east, dryer and steppe-ier? Seriously asking, not a big WWII buff..

    • Replies: @Jack D
  354. @HA

    As we know, that missile was deflected by Ukie anti-air…or perhaps the damage was caused by an errant SA-300, I haven’t seen any fragments one way or the other. We di jbiw that the Ukranians hit Poland and Belarus by accident.

    Maybe the Russians are ‘running out’, or maybe there just isn’t a whole heck of a lot left worth spending a Kinzhal on right now.

    • Replies: @HA
  355. @Jack D

    Indeed the Rushists here often warn us that whoever comes after Putin will make Putin look like a moderate (so we had better keep Putin).

    Personally I doubt this. Beria didn’t last 3 months after Stalin died.

    It rarely happens in history. Usually someone more moderate follows.

    This is because dictators can normally sniff out anyone that might make a grab for the throne. They keep predictable yes-men around them. Numerous men had the opportunity to take out Stalin but didn’t have the balls.

    There is also no reason to believe that someone worse would continue the war. A completely amoral successor would have the option of blaming the war on Putin and then enjoying the personal fruits of being the dictator. Rome had plenty of evil dictators that didn’t care about foreign conquests.

    A new dictator could cut a deal with the West and then focus on rebuilding Russia. Men in new positions of power don’t normally double down on what are obvious mistakes.

    • Replies: @James B. Shearer
  356. HA says:
    @stari_momak

    “Maybe the Russians are ‘running out’, or maybe there just isn’t a whole heck of a lot left worth spending a Kinzhal on right now.”

    Even now (i.e. as of a week ago), over half the grid is “undamaged”.

    Waging an often desperate battle to keep the country’s electricity network working in the face of relentless Russian missile and drone attacks, Ukraine is issuing emergency appeals to the U.S. and other countries to secure transformers, switches, large-scale generators and other gear needed to prevent a total collapse of its power grid, according to Ukrainian and U.S. officials…The systematic Russian attacks on the power grid that began in October have left 17 million Ukrainians without a regular supply of electricity for extended periods, and some rural areas have been completely offline for days or weeks. About 40% of the electrical network has been damaged.

    I admit that sounds dire. Then again, there are significantly more than 17 million people in Ukraine, last I checked, and in countries like India, being “without a regular supply of electricity for extended periods” is pretty much just another Tuesday, so if this is supposed to bring them to their knees and fly a white flag, I’m not seeing it. I guess Putin might be counting on the rest of Ukraine’s grid to collapse due to the damage already inflicted, but telling his goons “meh, that’s probably enough” just gives the Ukrainians breathing room to recover, at least partially. Does that really sound like an effective strategy to incapacitate them? I know Moscow must be keeping at least a few missiles in reserve, but I stand by my earlier claim that the barrages we were seeing in December have petered out.

  357. @jinkforp

    Well, you go crawl into an overturned tank and fetch out the shells, some of which will be broken open. They are not indestructible.

    I would happily pull out the shells if there isn’t a fire because I understand how bullets work.

    They not only need to be struck in the primer with the right amount of force but they also have to be pressurized in barrel.

    There are videos of the Abrams flying 10 feet in the air from a jump. Being flipped over is nothing.

    The narrative the media supports is that we did not provoke this war by moving NATO east.

    How did we move NATO east? Ukraine wasn’t in the process of applying to NATO and didn’t have the votes of France, Germany and Turkey. Or are you just following Putin’s total bullshit claim of NATO silos being planned for Ukraine? Why didn’t he issue an ultimatum if it was about NATO? What good would silos do if there are already a dozen trident subs in the Atlantic that can flatten Russia?

    Putin has since moved away from that bullshit excuse and now claims the war is about Donbas.

    The leaked plans show that he planned on continuing to Moldova. He can’t even maintain a consistent line of bullshit. He isn’t very good at this.

    He is just playing conqueror in his last days and you are repeating his lame excuses. Age old Russian imperialism. The LPR/DPR that he claimed in March were independent states are now just Russian territory.

    That’s how I can sometimes tell that videos are BS, because the intended audience knows nothing and I know something.
    Video evidence is no evidence, at this distance.

    Well here is a dashcam of a Russian missile hitting a civilian area:

    Would you say that is BS or real?

    Putin is a half pint dictator that thought he could take Ukraine in 2.5 weeks. The Western media does not need to maintain a narrative. They can just put a live camera on him like a natural disaster. He is losing it mentally as seen by his human wave attacks using conscripts.

    • Replies: @stari_momak
    , @jinkforp
  358. @John Johnson

    “A new dictator could cut a deal with the West ..”

    Maybe if the West was prepared to be reasonable. But I think the West might overreach and convince the new dictator that trying to make a deal with the West was hopeless and just making him look weak domestically.

    • Replies: @Dave Pinsen
  359. @James B. Shearer

    Putin asked to join NATO and was the first foreign leader to offer the U.S. assistance after 9/11. We could have cut a deal with him then.

  360. @68W58

    While I’m sure that ‘official’ Poland and many Poles have that attitude, there’s actually some support for Russia among the Polish population. For example, the citizen journalist Patrick Lancaster, who reports from the DNR/Russian side of the line and yes, takes their perspective (he’s married to a Donechanka) has quite the Polish following.

    • Replies: @HA
  361. @John Johnson

    “Putin is a half pint dictator that thought he could take Ukraine in 2.5 weeks.”

    I thought it was three days…

  362. “Well here is a dashcam of a Russian missile hitting a civilian area:”

    LOL, the fireball is preventing me from seeing what exactly was hit. But if, for some reason, an enemy hit 32 street Naval Base in San Diego, or the SeAL training facility on Coronado, or large sections of Miramar, Pendleton, etc it would look pretty much like that from the roads just outside the base.

    BTW that particular strike, and many like it, were within a couple of days of the involuntary suicide bombing of the Kerch bridge.

    • Replies: @Jack D
  363. jinkforp says:
    @John Johnson

    Happily pull out shells that may have broken open? Perhaps. When I was young and stupid I, along with others went happily prowling through a dud pit, looking for booster charges. Fortunately there are soldiers whose job it is to do that work, the EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) men.

    Shells do not have to be pressurized in a barrel to burn. We would take the booster charges we stole and put them in a paper bag and light it. Fun but foolish. During WW2, tank crewmen were not burned by fuel burning, but by propellant fires.

    Videos of an Abrams ten feet in the air are staged for propaganda. There was assuredly no ammo aboard when such video was made. There are also WW2 photos of jeeps pulling anti-tank guns in the air, made entirely for propaganda reasons. Doing that kind of crap without authority will get you court-martialed. Playing Evil Knievel with a tank is damned dangerous. They’re hard to flip, but it happens, and crewmen die.

    We moved NATO east by admitting Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Hungary, and other former Warsaw Pact countries, as we had agreed not to.

    “Leaked Plans”. You have no idea if any such thing is real.

    I have read that the LPR/DPR have held plebiscites since March and have voted to join Russia. Maybe so. It sounds reasonable to me. Do you know otherwise? How do you know?

    You have no idea if the missile in the video is Russian. You have no idea if it’s a missile or a bomb or an IED. It appears to be an explosion followed by a larger secondary explosion. If there’s a secondary explosion, that implies that the first explosion was aimed at a military target. I don’t know. Neither do you.

    I don’t know Putin, what he is like, what he thinks, his mental state, or if there are actually human wave attacks using conscripts. Neither do you.

    -Discard

    • Replies: @Jack D
  364. @jinkforp

    The “Discard” signature is there to allow some continuity, so people can exercise some judgement about my credibility.

    Thanks for the explanation.
    At first, I had thought perhaps that you were marking your posts for Mr. Sailer to discard them or something like that.

    Every few weeks the computer rejects my name, and I don’t know why.

    You might consider, if you have not already, raising the issue in the “Bugs and Suggestions” thread.

  365. Jack D says:
    @stari_momak

    There was more than one tank battle on the Eastern Front in WWII. Kursk is the most famous but not the only one, by far. Some of big ones took place in Ukraine. At certain times of the year (i.e. when it is not mud season) Ukraine is a good place to have a tank battle.

  366. Jack D says:
    @jinkforp

    We moved NATO east by admitting Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Hungary, and other former Warsaw Pact countries, as we had agreed not to.

    Can you give us the name of this treaty and a web link where the text can be found? No you can’t because (unlike the Budapest Memo where Russia agreed to respect Ukraine’s borders) it doesn’t exist. All there are are vague recollections on the Russian side of things that were supposedly murmured at the table by the Americans and the Americans say that they never said these things. And even if they had, international agreements are written down and not murmured at a table.

    • Agree: HA
  367. @HA

    [CONTEXT: I had challenged, “What possible relevance could Scott Ritter’s erotic proclivities and activities, whatever they may be, have to his views on Russia vs. Ukraine…?”]

    Well, there is the fact that he was TWICE convicted for said proclivities, almost a decade apart. You don’t think that bespeaks a certain lack of judgment?

    A lack of judgment in what area? Concerning the behaviors that led to Mr. Ritter’s convictions or related matters?

    [MORE]
    Yes, those behaviors of Ritter’s may very well bespeak a clear, even profound lack of judgment on his part. Concerning other, completely unrelated areas, such as the present one (i.e., Russia vs. Ukraine)? No, at least I don’t see why it should. People are complex. A lack of judgment or credibility in one area is, in and of itself, no indication (or at least need not be) of same in another, completely unrelated area. Are there not any number of real-world examples of individuals who have demonstrated sound or even impeccable judgment in a particular area in which they have expertise, while demonstrating just the opposite in one or more other, unrelated areas?

    You and he can defend or extenuate or compartmentalize photo sharing one’s junk to parties who explicitly identify themselves to be 15-year-olds, and insist it isn’t that big a deal,

    Compartmentalize, yes, as explained above. Defend? Extenuate? No; I offered no comment whatsoever– whether to defend, condemn, extenuate, or even merely to confirm or deny– on any of the personal behaviors or lapses of judgment that you alluded-to. Straw man.

    • Replies: @HA
  368. HA says:
    @stari_momak

    “there’s actually some support for Russia among the Polish population.”

    Sure, every country has its lunatic fringe — typically, around 10% or so on either end (or both ends) of the horseshoe. Little edgelords like you whose self-worth subsists primarily in pretending they’re not like the normies/sheep who frown on landgrabs and starting wars in Eurasia because they’re not enlightened enough to recognize that as being far more honest and refreshing, or whatever. Whether it’s to compensate for their sagging anatomy or because they got beaten up too many times in the schoolyard (or maybe were the ones doing the pummeling), that sense of otherness is really all they can put together as far as purpose for living.

    Even in Poland, that means we’re talking about millions. But it doesn’t mean squat, since if that viewpoint ever became mainstream, the same kooks would have to move off to some. more distant frontier of lunacy in order maintain that illusion of being special that they crave. It’s a little like when you take the trouble to refute any portion of a conspiracy theorist’s arguments, his response is to simply iterate the conspiracy one level deeper and claim that the refutation actually proves he’s even more correct. These people don’t believe in anything except in NOT believing whatever is held dear by the benighted masses they sneer at.

    In Poland, as in most other countries in the Soviet bloc, there was a substantial minority who caved in to the Soviets and did their bidding. The rest of the population regards them as cowards and traitors, but their sons and daughters still cling to the notion that comrade grandpa was right all along. Sounds exactly like your kind of crowd, eh?

  369. Jack D says:
    @stari_momak

    BTW that particular strike, and many like it, were within a couple of days of the involuntary suicide bombing of the Kerch bridge.

    First of all, we don’t know whether the bombing of the Kerch Bridge was an “involuntary suicide bombing” at all. Maybe the driver knew what his mission was. Maybe it wasn’t a truck bomb at all and it was a drone boat under the bridge. No one really knows at this point.

    2nd, bridges, unlike civilian apartment buildings are legitimate military targets in war. The Kerch Bridge was being used to transport Russian military supplies. The Russians themselves have blown many bridges, e.g. when they advanced to the rear in Kherson, they blew the Antonivskyi Bridge as they left.

    BTW, the Russians launched another wave of missiles and drones last night as “revenge” for the tank announcements. The Ukrainian military said its air defenses shot down all 24 drones and 47 of 55 missiles. The remaining 8 missiles did do some damage to energy infrastructure which appeared to be their main target. But the fact that the Ukrainians are now getting 90% of what is aimed at them is encouraging because it means that Russia has to expend 10 drones or missiles for every target hit and despite the copium, they don’t have that many left to spend.

    • Replies: @stari_momak
  370. Jack D says:

    I suppose it’s possible for someone to have a kink in one area but otherwise be a fine upstanding professional. For example, Sam Brinton had a somewhat unconventional appearance and sexual identity, but this did not affect his judgment in matters of nuclear safety and the Biden Administration saw fit to appoint him to a position of high responsibility:

    https://static.independent.co.uk/2022/11/29/14/newFile-6.jpg?quality=75&width=990&auto=webp&crop=982:726,smart

    OTOH, maybe this wasn’t such a good idea after all:

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/sam-brinton-fired-stealing-luggage-airport-b2244018.html

    But your kompromat argument really hits the ball out of the park. The Russians lurve to have kompromat on people. They set up honey traps. They practically FORCE insiders to take bribes so that they will be compromised (because being compromised insures your loyalty). Unless Ritter sudden changed his stripes and became a choir boy, the odds that the the Russians were not able to obtain kompromat on him are very small and it is completely believable, given the way he has behaved, that his actions are influenced by the kompramat that the Russians are holding over him.

    • Replies: @HA
  371. HA says:
    @Post-Postmodernist

    “Compartmentalize, yes, as explained above. Defend? Extenuate? No; I offered no comment whatsoever…”

    Exactly. You evidently see nothing about wanting to expose your junk to 15 year olds — so much so that you’re somehow able to get yourself convicted of it TWICE — that is particularly worthy of response, to the extent that you choose to level no opinion on the matter whatsoever, except to condemn — in prose that is far more heated and purple than anything I’ve managed to spit out, as I clearly cited — those who see that kind of behavior for what it is. If that’s the bar you’ve set for yourself, then stop presuming to lecture me on my “tone”. You have far weightier matters to address.

    “A lack of judgment in what area?”

    In what area, you ask? In areas related TO HIS ADMITTED RESIDENCE IN RUSSIA, if nothing else (and we both know there’s more there than just “nothing”). If you don’t think the Kremlin has a thick folder of Kompromat related to those matters where Ritter has pathologically no control, and in a country where restrictions on said behavior are far more lax, try pulling my other leg.

    There’s a reason why people with any number of self-destructive self-control issues are denied clearance and other forms of social and economic “credit”, and truth be told, I understand. So sorry that you don’t.

    Mind you, I realize that plenty of people in a similar boat — and whatever your own particular kink is, I offer you genuine pity, because I suspect your willingness to stick up for the likes of Ritter says something about you that is pitiable indeed– vainly try and convince themselves and others that we can be raving lunatics when it comes to one kink, even to the point of getting REPEATEDLY criminally convicted of it, but sober as the day is long in all other matters. Gimme a break. They may be good at hiding their pathology, and surely if nothing at all could be hidden, we’d find that plenty of people have things to be embarrassed about, but that doesn’t mean the pathology is having no effect. If that’s really so hard for you to grasp, then maybe it’s time for you to go that 12-step program and announce that you too have a problem.

    Even if you believe that there’s nothing particularly wrong with exposing your junk to 15 year olds, you should at least have the wherewithal to realize that the rest of society puts a thick red line around that and throws those who cross that line into prison, and thereby maintain whatever discipline is needed to keep yourself zipped. If Ritter can’t do at least that, then his “area” of lack of self-control is wide and egregious indeed. Moreover, if he knows (or even suspects) that Moscow has a paper trail of his proclivities when he resided in Russia — and again, you would be a naïve fool to discount the likelihood of that — he is not to be trusted on any matters related to Russia and the Kremlin. Period. How do you not get that? I may see nothing wrong with a ham sandwich. But if I get busted and put through the wringer for chowing it down in some Muslim country, and still decide I’m just gonna have to keep at it to the extent that I get busted again, then I clearly have a problem, and it goes way beyond ham sandwiches.

    Again, this isn’t something I should have to explain to anyone over the age of, say, six, and the fact that I am here nonetheless trying to explain it for you should give you some idea of why my tone and exasperation frequently rise to higher-than-average levels. That is EXACTLY what you deserve, so deal with it. The same goes for the rest of the slow learners around here who need an explanation for why starting land-wars in Eurasia is a terrible idea.

  372. HA says:
    @Jack D

    I will stipulate, for what it’s worth, that I have zero expertise to offer on whether society is treating those with Ritter’s problem in an appropriate manner. When we convict people like Ritter, a whole bunch of other innocent people he’s close to get taken down as well, and that’s terrible, and there may well be better ways of dealing with all that. I totally get that. There but for the grace.

    But as noted, I don’t think it is at all unreasonable to take whatever he says about Russia with a big grain of salt, for the reasons stated. The same goes for Mark Ames, who never got busted, and now claims he made up all the stuff he would have got busted for if it had happened stateside. I’m pretty sure the Russians have a much clearer idea of what he really did do when he lived over there, and can easily make it public if they choose to, which means any presumption of objective analysis or impartiality on his part go out the window. And I’d guess there are any number of other pro-Putin stooges who are also in that category for similar reasons, including possibly a certain ex-President. (I’ve heard that Israel likewise had a thick dossier regarding Arafat’s sexual preferences that they used to their advantage, too. It’s how the game is played.)

    And no one is asking for Hunter Biden’s opinion of Ukraine, either, and I can understand why. He too is not an impartial observer at this point, by any stretch. But by the same token, I don’t feel a need to apologize for calling into question Ritter’s opinions on Russia.

    • Replies: @Frank McGar
  373. “…No one really knows at this point.”

    The people who organized know and I am pretty sure the Russians know. Probably others as well.

  374. @HA

    I’ve heard that Israel likewise had a thick dossier regarding Arafat’s sexual preferences that they used to their advantage, too. It’s how the game is played.

    Interesting. Wonder who else Israel has in that dossier of theirs.

  375. @Jack D

    LOL. Yes, the dishwashers where flying again last night. All kinds of vids on Telegram.

    The Ukrainian MOD/government still, AFAIK, doesn’t admit their S-300 hit Poland. I’d take their figures with a grain of salt.

    PS. I didn’t mean to imply that the Kerch bridge wasn’t a legitimate target, although if the Russian narrative of involuntary suicide bombing is correct, the method of attacking it seems out of bounds. I was just pointing out the context of that strike. It made countless ‘compilations’ that day.

  376. @Jack D

    Actually that’s what the BBC believes. They have supposedly identified slightly over 12,000 Russians dead in the war from memorials, obituaries, announcements in local press, etc. They believe (and there are statistical ways to get a handle on this) that they have missed 40 to 60% of that figure. So yeah, around 20,000 top figure.

    The initial invasions force, IIRC, was under 200,000. The Ukraine has mobilized 750,000 men (btw military age men, from 18 to 54 can’t leave the country). Of those 750,000 there is equipment right now for about 250,000. So of course Russia needed to mobilize, partially. The rule of thumb is that you need 3,4,5 to 1 to successfully attack. (This is one reason I put some credence into the idea that Putin wanted to do a brief incursion, get the Ukrainians to the bargaining table, and do a deal on neutrality. Unfortunately war is unpredictable).

  377. Corvinus says:
    @New Dealer

    “My friends who automatically opposed Iraq war? Most now automatically support Ukraine war. The difference is information control.”

    No, it’s access to information. Your friends understand the difference behind the motivations of Bush Jr and Putin. It seems you are making an assumption that your buddies are being duped without realizing it. Is it not possible that they are deciding to support Ukraine in good faith and on their own terms?

    Quite simply, Ukraine desires to make the own decisions when it comes to alliances without having to kowtow to Russian demands. That’s the essence of self-determination.

Current Commenter
says:

Leave a Reply - Comments are moderated by iSteve, at whim.


 Remember My InformationWhy?
 Email Replies to my Comment
$
Submitted comments have been licensed to The Unz Review and may be republished elsewhere at the sole discretion of the latter
Commenting Disabled While in Translation Mode
Subscribe to This Comment Thread via RSS Subscribe to All Steve Sailer Comments via RSS
PastClassics
The Surprising Elements of Talmudic Judaism
How America was neoconned into World War IV
Analyzing the History of a Controversial Movement