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From the Washington Monthly:

Some Thoughts About Race, Genetics, and IQ
by Nancy LeTourneau March 30, 2018 POLITICAL ANIMAL

When I wrote this week about “race realism” as the new word for the debunked claims of “scientific racism,” I was unaware of the fact that the topic had been given new life with the publication in the New York Times of a piece by David Reich, professor of genetics at Harvard, titled: “How Genetics is Changing Our Understanding of Race.”

… To be very clear, I pretty much unambiguously come down on the side of [Ezra] Klein’s argument in all of this. …

While Reich addresses the possibility of genetic differences among races more generally, I find it interesting that Klein and Sullivan zero in completely on whether or not they have to do with IQ. The age-old racist notion is that white people are more intelligent than black people, something that has been revived by Charles Murray and Andrew Sullivan.

… Personally, I have a fairly high IQ and yet I have always had a hard time with science and history because I have a terrible memory for facts. I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy and went to graduate school with a whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.

 
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  1. Does she disclose her IQ anywhere in this article? The reader may start to get the impression it isn’t as high as she claims.

    • Agree: AndrewR, Nicholas Stix
    • Replies: @res
    @Barnard

    "Fairly high" is one of those phrases that can have very different meanings coming from different people.

    , @AndrewR
    @Barnard

    High IQ compared to whom? Special Ed students in Somalia?

    Educated people who can't do basic statistics or remember basic scientific and historical facts may be able to accurately claim many things about themselves, but "I have a fairly high IQ" is probably not one of those things. "I am qualified to discuss complex scientific and statistical matters" is definitely not one of those things.

    , @Pat Boyle
    @Barnard

    There is another possibility. When I got divorced I advertised on the web for girls. I like tall smart girls so I wanted applicants to be at least 5'7" and have a doctorate.

    I met a girl with a doctorate who taught at Stanford. Alas it was an EdD not a PhD and she confessed that she never could do algebra. She thought it was particularly cruel to make kids learn such a subject. She was really bad at math.

    She often claimed to have an IQ of 160. I estimated her IQ to be about 125. But she wasn't lying. Her math was so bad that she couldn't grasp things like probability mass functions or interval scales. She actually thought she had a 160 IQ.

    That's why last year when a woman won the Fields Medal, it was such a big story. Girls are bad at math.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @The Wobbly Guy

    , @Anonymous
    @Barnard

    " I find it interesting that Klein and Sullivan zero in completely on whether or not they have to do with IQ. The age-old racist notion is that white people are more intelligent than black people, something that has been revived by Charles Murray and Andrew Sullivan."

    -These white folks really live in a reality-proof bubble, don't they? I bet they don't believe that Wakanda could've happened, either. Well, white doubter, take a gander at the comment section of Worldstar sometime. Nothing but Godel's theorems and debates on quantum field theory going on over there.

  2. • Replies: @bartok
    @inertial

    Zing!

  3. I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy…

    That’s the stop word for me. Nothing of value can come out of this person’s mouth.

    • Agree: Autochthon, Kylie, NickG
    • Replies: @Realist
    @Moses

    A community college degree in marriage and family therapy should be sufficient....very low IQ subject.

    , @TheJester
    @Moses

    On understanding the human experience ...

    My son, an engineering major, took a course at the university on marriage and family life. He told me, "Dad, it's an opinion course. I've got an opinion ... guaranteed 'A'."

    He got a "D". I guess the professor didn't like his opinion.

    That seems to be the problem with the "soft sciences". The greater part of their official dogmas appears to be based on opinion, especially if the consensus is that the categories they deal with are relative and arbitrary social constructs, i.e. race, IQ, gender, sexual orientation ... which are kind, politically correct ways of saying they don't exist.

    If they do not exist, why do the same people spend so much time behaving as if they did, i.e. affirmative action, disparate gap resolutions, women's studies, black studies, gender studies? They have nothing to study. It also stretches their credibility to declare that evil, invisible forces in the ether such as "white privilege" can account for the consistent differences between peoples, cultures, and genders that they cannot otherwise explain.

    Then, the howling starts when geneticists in the "hard sciences" start mapping these consistent differences to observable genetic traits as testable, verifiable predictions. The mappings prove, to the social scientists anyway, that evil, invisible forces are again at work, and they need to be manically resisted.

    Maybe this is why we call them "soft sciences" ... as soft as memory foam. Regardless of the weight of contrary testable and verifiable scientific evidence put on them, they immediately bounce back to their original positions.

    Perhaps a better name for them is the "shamanic sciences". And, to be consistent, the people at Harvard and other universities who construct, publish, and teach their dogmas should be called "shamans" ... believers in the existence of invisible, malevolent forces plaguing humankind. Given the right sinecures, they can keep them at bay.


    "Shamanism is a practice that involves a practitioner reaching altered states of consciousness in order to perceive and interact with a spirit world and channel these transcendental energies into this world.

    A shaman is someone who is regarded as having access to, and influence in, the world of benevolent and malevolent spirits, who typically enters into a trance state during a ritual, and practices divination and healing."

     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism

    Replies: @Forbes

    , @Olorin
    @Moses

    Same here. Except I stopped at the seventh word.

    I trust she was as unsuccessful at that as at understanding any other form of science.

    , @anonymous
    @Moses

    Is that par with a masters in education?

    , @Derp
    @Moses

    I got my masters in foot massage would be more useful.

  4. … Personally, I have a fairly high IQ and yet I have always had a hard time with science and history because I have a terrible memory for facts. I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy and went to graduate school with a whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.

    Hee hee hee!

    Translation:

    “Personally, I’m smart but I’ve always had a hard time thinking. Actual knowledge is difficult for me to remember, so I studied squishy subjects that allow a lot of subjective bullshitting. I went to graduate school with a lot of like-minded idiots who were smart but literally got sick when it came time to think logically.”

    • LOL: YetAnotherAnon
    • Replies: @Maple Curtain
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Well stated.

    , @J.Ross
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Or: I think I'm smart because I took advanced classes in CultMarxed humanities departments.


    I got my master's degree in mariage and family therapy
     
    Spoke too soon, poetry is objectively harder when taught properly (meter is math).

    Replies: @dr kill

    , @Bill
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Is she claiming to be lazy, then? I mean, learning to think with mathematical rigor is painful, hard work, even for a smart person. I don't think I even understand what she is trying to say.

    Replies: @Gringo

    , @Jim Christian
    @Buzz Mohawk


    Translation:
    “Personally, I’m smart but I’ve always had a hard time thinking. Actual knowledge is difficult for me to remember, so I studied squishy subjects that allow a lot of subjective bullshitting. I went to graduate school with a lot of like-minded idiots who were smart but literally got sick when it came time to think logically.”
     
    Nice. As a sidebar to their tales, the question always comes up with these broads if you take em out to dinner: "Does my Master's Degree make my ass look fat?". Yes, honey, why yes it DOES. Ye Gawds. There it is Gents. The New Matriarchy. Same as the Patriarchy. Whaddya gonna do, they own it now.
  5. Personally, I have a fairly high IQ and yet I have always had a hard time with science and history because I have a terrible memory for facts.

    I wonder if Reich and his supporters are actually *paying* these people to denounce him using these sorts of arguments…

    • Agree: Dan Hayes
    • Replies: @Barnard
    @Ron Unz

    She is writing for the people who literally got ill before taking stats. They find her arguments, if you can call them that, authoritative. Having your emotions validated is far more important than science to them.

    Replies: @Mishra, @Forbes, @ogunsiron

  6. I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy

    A pompous jackass says that exact same thing in Waugh’s The Loved One. It was of course a laugh line.

  7. An example of the intellectual weight of Nancy LeTourneau (Twitter: @Smartypants60):
    Apr 1

    “The lie: illegal criminals are invading our country.
    The goal of the lie: promote a white nationalist movement.”

    • Replies: @ogunsiron
    @CCZ

    smartypants60 ? She surely loves to project intelligence.
    I bet she "loves data and facts", "wants to code" and fancies herself as a "crypto-ai chyq".

  8. Were I editor of a journal or magazine, anyone using any form of “racist” would be required to submit her definition, declare explicitly if that is considered good, benign, or evil, explain why, then stick to that definition for the article. Astounding, the number of revered writers who skip that step for corrupted words and get away with it. Cowardly slop.

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Crawfurdmuir
    @schnellandine

    Anyone accusing someone else of being a "racist" should be presumed a charlatan until proven otherwise.

    Accusations of racism are most often efforts by the accuser to defame his opponent in debate, so as to avoid the necessity of rebutting his arguments using facts and logic. It's the most frequently encountered variety of "poisoning the wells."

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Forbes

  9. I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy and went to graduate school with a whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.

    Not very surprising….

    • Replies: @Anonym
    @syonredux

    University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). If you are a humanities major without math aptitude, it would be practically impossible I would think.

    Basic statistics is easy for people with math aptitude, but a vast number of people struggle with the concept that "group X on average have a higher IQ than group Y" is not disproven by the existence of an individual in group Y with a higher IQ than group X. Substitute anything for IQ, same basic point.

    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it's having people who understand math run the country.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Yan Shen, @Twinkie, @Lin, @for-the-record, @AnotherDad, @J1234, @Pat Boyle, @Bill, @Hans Tholstrup

  10. @Ron Unz

    Personally, I have a fairly high IQ and yet I have always had a hard time with science and history because I have a terrible memory for facts.
     
    I wonder if Reich and his supporters are actually *paying* these people to denounce him using these sorts of arguments...

    Replies: @Barnard

    She is writing for the people who literally got ill before taking stats. They find her arguments, if you can call them that, authoritative. Having your emotions validated is far more important than science to them.

    • Replies: @Mishra
    @Barnard

    We f*ing LOVE science!
    We just don't know what it is.

    , @Forbes
    @Barnard


    Having your emotions validated is far more important than science to them.
     
    While I agree with your sentiment and cynicism--that is an accurate observation. Our world--in life and in education--is very much about having emotions validated. The feminism that has taken over the culture is embodied in that statement. It may be (probably is) misguided, but saying so makes it no less real.
    , @ogunsiron
    @Barnard

    She may be trying to get noticed by most foremost stats genius ta-nehesi coates.

  11. @syonredux

    I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy and went to graduate school with a whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.
     
    Not very surprising....

    Replies: @Anonym

    University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). If you are a humanities major without math aptitude, it would be practically impossible I would think.

    Basic statistics is easy for people with math aptitude, but a vast number of people struggle with the concept that “group X on average have a higher IQ than group Y” is not disproven by the existence of an individual in group Y with a higher IQ than group X. Substitute anything for IQ, same basic point.

    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it’s having people who understand math run the country.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonym

    Non-STEM majors usually take a special statistics for social science course, not the main statistics sequence for applied math majors. Also, if you check the authors, most studies have a dedicated person for the statistics.

    Nevertheless, a principle investigator without a good grasp of statistics will result in studies whose very conceptions are bad.

    A really smart person who is genuinely interested in social sciences, or even some of the humanities, would do well to major in STEM as an undergraduate, for instance applied math, physics, or hard economics, and then get in a masters or doctorate program for the social science. It's easy to catch up on the soft stuff later, but not so with the quantification.

    Replies: @Anon

    , @Yan Shen
    @Anonym

    http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2007/10/bounded-cognition.html


    Sometimes, people are just avoiding more cumbersome modes of expression -- "Xs are P-er than Ys" instead of (say) "The mean P measurement in a sample of Xs was greater than the mean P measurement in a sample of Ys, by an amount that would arise by chance fewer than once in 20 trials, assuming that the two samples were drawn from a single population in which P is normally distributed". But I submit that even most intellectuals don't really know how to think about the evaluation and comparison of distributions -- not even simple univariate gaussian distributions, much less more complex situations. And many people who do sort of understand this, at some level, generally fall back on thinking (as well as talking) about properties of group prototypes rather than properties of distributions of individual characteristics.
     
    Do you think the kinds of people who freaked out over James Damore's memo generally tended to be statistically ignorant or just obnoxious ideologues? Now obviously not everyone at Google works in what would be considered a "technical" role, but it's hard to imagine any engineer or data scientist or product analyst or the likes not actually knowing basic statistics at that company. Google seems too self selected for that to be the case. I suspect the issue is in part a lack of statistical acumen among the general population, but probably also in large part just the result of ideological biases and people believing whatever they want.

    Interesting comment about the Chinese. I wonder if the reason why East Asians in general tend to be far less PC than other ethnic groups is in part because of the skew towards mathematical reasoning...

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @Twinkie
    @Anonym


    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it’s having people who understand math run the country.
     
    I don't know whether this is true. I don't think the Party is all that meritocratic.

    Replies: @Daniel Williams, @Yan Shen, @res

    , @Lin
    @Anonym

    I've a math degree and I have done some pretty tough courses.
    "University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). "
    No. That's not true. Most universities offer one term (easier)statistics course for business and social sciences majors.
    BTW, I found most engineering and science(other than math) majors couldn't do the following question off hand:
    To Prove:
    (- 1) x (- 1) = + 1
    ...............
    A math fact all junior grade pupils learn but few college grads can prove.

    Replies: @Anonym, @Pat Boyle, @ogunsiron

    , @for-the-record
    @Anonym

    If you are a humanities major without math aptitude, it would be practically impossible I would think.

    Check out this text on statistics for the humanities, and see if your opinion is the same afterwards.

    Statistics for the Humanities
    For students of Archaeology, Area Studies, Classics, English, Film, History, Linguistics, Modern Languages, Music, Philosophy and Religious Studies

    http://www.statisticsforhumanities.net/book/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/StatisticsforHumanities%205Sept14.pdf

    , @AnotherDad
    @Anonym

    I'm definitely on-side with the idea that we suffer from having a verbally oriented "elite", that clearly doesn't think about things--model ideas--mathematically, and at least in terms of public discourse seems to be math-averse or math-incompetent.

    As I've pointed out if you have any trait in which individuals differ--not fixed like ten fingers, ten toes-- then "population groups" must differ as well. Trivially or profoundly but there's no way they can continually be "equal" as individuals are being born and dying off. (Balancing selection could even be going on but there's no reason to believe it will be the same if different groups.) This is "just math".

    Another example, is the "not enough time" or "selection has stopped" idea that must exist for the "left creationism"--we're all just humans!--to work. This makes no logical sense--selection doesn't stop. And even really small selective effects will have big results over a bunch of--say 40--generations. But that's a math sanity test.


    However, i don't think the "math problem"--or more accurately, the "verbal thinkers" problem--is really the core issue.

    Basically we have a religion--human "equality", i.e. human non-diversity. This religion serves some powerful interests--the super-state, Jewish ethnic interests, globo-capitalism, convert-the-world Christianity. Along with individual interests in signaling virtue. Mostly, believers just believe. Inability to think or model anything mathematically doesn't really come into play. Most of these folks absolutely do not want to do so.

    Replies: @Anonym

    , @J1234
    @Anonym


    Basic statistics is easy for people with math aptitude, but a vast number of people struggle with the concept that “group X on average have a higher IQ than group Y” is not disproven by the existence of an individual in group Y with a higher IQ than group X. Substitute anything for IQ, same basic point.
     
    Very true. The non-emotionally loaded analogy I use is that if one state in the US is more prosperous than another state, it doesn't mean that every person in the more prosperous state are wealthier than everyone in the less prosperous state. Very few people, if any, would have a hard time understanding this because most people they have a pretty realistic idea about the distribution of wealth (in a simple, non-political sense). The distribution of intelligence is less understood by uneducated people, maybe in part because it has a genetic component.

    Many blacks thought that the Obama administration proved that black people were smart enough to be president, which is in no way true. That's taking the anecdotal and applying it to the general, like saying white people are strong because of Arnold Schwarzenegger. Of course, most people of any race aren't smart enough to be president.

    , @Pat Boyle
    @Anonym

    I'm sure others have thought this thought before - but it is new to me. The unspoken notion that runs through this thread is that race-equalitarian liberals think the way they do because they are innumerate.

    I think there is something to this idea. But how to explain Lewontin?

    BTW Gould - his colleague in Marxism - was quite weak in math. Read Gould's writing on statistics - not so much wrong as just sophomoric.

    Replies: @Tulip, @ogunsiron

    , @Bill
    @Anonym


    University level statistics is hard,
     
    Compared to what? It's certainly not hard compared to, say, multivariable calculus. Statistics seems like pretty much a gimme once you understand calculus. Or maybe I'm implicitly norming on the wrong population of students or something? You're saying statistics is hard for most IQ=110 people? No way is it hard for most IQ=125 people.

    Replies: @Lin

    , @Hans Tholstrup
    @Anonym

    Sorry but that's bogus. There is no such thing as 'math aptitude'. If you put in the work you get the results. Simple.
    The east Asians have what is called a 'growth mindset' on math, too many Americans have a 'fixed mindset' - the "I'm no good at that and I can't do anything about it, and it's unfair you expect me to".
    Complete B.S.

    Replies: @The Wobbly Guy

  12. > I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy and went to graduate school with a whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.

    Maybe they weren’t actually high IQ individuals? Wait…I thought IQ didn’t exist.

    • Replies: @Gringo
    @Space Ghost

    Maybe they weren’t actually high IQ individuals? Wait…I thought IQ didn’t exist.

    Reminds me of a T-shirt I once saw: "My IQ test came back negative."

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  13. The age-old racist notion is that white people are more intelligent than black people, something that has been revived by Charles Murray and Andrew Sullivan.

    I don’t know where those terrible racists got the idea that was true. There is certainly no statistical evidence whatsoever for that load of racist nonsense, except for every single study done in the last 100 years.

    • LOL: Johann Ricke, AndrewR
    • Replies: @Bill jones
    @Jack D

    And the history of civilization for the past 500 years

    Replies: @bartok

    , @Mishra
    @Jack D

    Well then how about anecdotes?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5571589/Man-shot-head-Facebook-Live-stream-friend-plays-gun.html

    Oh nvm.

    , @anon
    @Jack D

    How about horse racing? Or dogs?

  14. “Thoughts” about race? No.

    Emoting without connecting the dots (i.e. thinking)? Yes.

  15. @Buzz Mohawk

    … Personally, I have a fairly high IQ and yet I have always had a hard time with science and history because I have a terrible memory for facts. I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy and went to graduate school with a whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.
     
    Hee hee hee!

    Translation:

    "Personally, I'm smart but I've always had a hard time thinking. Actual knowledge is difficult for me to remember, so I studied squishy subjects that allow a lot of subjective bullshitting. I went to graduate school with a lot of like-minded idiots who were smart but literally got sick when it came time to think logically."

    Replies: @Maple Curtain, @J.Ross, @Bill, @Jim Christian

    Well stated.

  16. This Nancy-lady is an excellent example of the variance in IQ of Europeans. She being on the bottom end of the scale.

  17. Anonymous[295] • Disclaimer says:

    “I did terribly in STEM subjects and I did terribly in liberal arts, which leaves, uh, nothing, but trust me, I have a high IQ.”

    Is this woman trolling us? Her twitter handle is @Smartypants60

  18. “..whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.”

    My daughter just finished her MPH, and she says this is a ubiquitous problem in universities. It’s the essential problem with all of the soft science “disciplines” – the studies are crap. Their “science” is invalid.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anon7

    What is the "ubiquitous problem"?

  19. “Personally, I have a fairly high IQ and yet I have always had a hard time with science and history because I have a terrible memory for facts.”

    Lady you be stupid even in the ghetto.

    • LOL: Mishra
  20. “pretty much unambiguously”

    Hindenburg-level prose.

  21. Women personalize everything and then try to make it out as something universal.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    @Flip


    Women personalize everything and then try to make it out as something universal.
     
    I learn something new about women every time I read iSteve.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @Flip

    Whiskey does that too, about women.

  22. OT Mexico has agreed to disband the “caravan” well before the border but will give humanitarian visas to the worst cases.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @J.Ross

    Update to this: a spokeswoman for Pueblos Sin Fronteras (the NGO organizing the caravan) has said that they will continue to try to enter the US, but this does not rule out Mexican government action. The Mexican government insists they are not responding to pressure from any outside force.
    http://archive.is/MbvZX

    , @David
    @J.Ross

    I read in El Heraldo (Tegucigalpa) that about 131 Hondurans begin the trek through Mexico to the US each day. So this "caravan" represents a little over a week's supply.

    , @Forbes
    @J.Ross

    Presumably that means humanitarian visas to stay in Mexico, because (last I checked) Mexico cannot give visas to the US...

    So they let them stay in Mexico just long enough to rest, and then continue the trip to the US when the media spotlight is focused elsewhere...

    , @Alfa158
    @J.Ross

    Trump has now commented on the caravans and said they are another reason for building the wall. I think the Mexican government has realized this is helping with Trump's re-election so they are now acting to suppress it, or at least scatter the participants so the optics aren't so clear.
    If Republicans weren't The Stupid Party they would be covertly subsidizing activities like this caravan and the Hogg rallies. What better way to rally their base than an overt invasion of the US, or mass political rallies featuring a crazed looking teenager with a weird looking head, and a bald Puerto Rican lesbian demanding the Constitution be dropped into a shredder.

    Replies: @Anonym

  23. whenever anyone used the redundancies “Personally, I” you know they’re Barry smart aka stupid

  24. The ugly aspects of Christian Universalism coupled with the female driven excuse making for various
    Alpha groups rears its head.

    Thought experiment: all Black men are turned into ultra nerds who only want to talk about railways and linux and baseball stats and other nerdy obsessions. How quickly are they denounced for Black Privilege?

  25. @Buzz Mohawk

    … Personally, I have a fairly high IQ and yet I have always had a hard time with science and history because I have a terrible memory for facts. I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy and went to graduate school with a whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.
     
    Hee hee hee!

    Translation:

    "Personally, I'm smart but I've always had a hard time thinking. Actual knowledge is difficult for me to remember, so I studied squishy subjects that allow a lot of subjective bullshitting. I went to graduate school with a lot of like-minded idiots who were smart but literally got sick when it came time to think logically."

    Replies: @Maple Curtain, @J.Ross, @Bill, @Jim Christian

    Or: I think I’m smart because I took advanced classes in CultMarxed humanities departments.

    I got my master’s degree in mariage and family therapy

    Spoke too soon, poetry is objectively harder when taught properly (meter is math).

    • Replies: @dr kill
    @J.Ross

    I enjoy her use of got instead of earned.

  26. Hee hee hee!

    Translation:

    “Personally, I’m smart but I’ve always had a hard time thinking. Actual knowledge is difficult for me to remember, so I studied squishy subjects that allow a lot of subjective bullshitting. I went to graduate school with a lot of like-minded idiots who were smart but literally got sick when it came time to think logically.”

    Or: people pay to critique me, and they themselves self-critique, for free!

    Trump defines this as winning, I believe.

  27. You’d think 20 years of seeing it with her own eyes would have made Nancy at least a little more realist?

    For over 20 years, Nancy was the executive director of a nonprofit organization whose mission focused on juvenile crime prevention.

    • Replies: @bartok
    @danand


    For over 20 years, Nancy was the executive director of a nonprofit organization whose mission focused on juvenile crime prevention.
     
    As the executive director, perhaps she had a policy of "never bring me bad news, because bad news is racist."
  28. @Jack D

    The age-old racist notion is that white people are more intelligent than black people, something that has been revived by Charles Murray and Andrew Sullivan.
     
    I don't know where those terrible racists got the idea that was true. There is certainly no statistical evidence whatsoever for that load of racist nonsense, except for every single study done in the last 100 years.

    Replies: @Bill jones, @Mishra, @anon

    And the history of civilization for the past 500 years

    • Replies: @bartok
    @Bill jones


    And the history of civilization for the past 500 years
     
    And the record of non-civilization for thousands of years prior to that.

    With league on league of ocean strand and miles of inland seas, for four thousand years he watched their surface ripple under the wind, heard the thunder of the surf on his beach, the howl of the storm over his head, gazed on the dim blue horizon calling him to worlds that lie beyond, and yet he never dreamed a sail! - The Clansman
     
  29. She writes like a girl.

    • Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax
    @Kylie

    Her twitter feed is completely devoid of circumspection or moderation. This chick's fightin' nazis!

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  30. LOL.

    Arguments like these fell on only the ears deaf:

    —Belloc’s 1937 book The Crusades: the World’s Debate, he wrote,

    The story must not be neglected by any modern, who may think in error that the East has finally fallen before the West, that Islam is now enslaved — to our political and economic power at any rate if not to our philosophy. It is not so. Islam essentially survives, and Islam would not have survived had the Crusade made good its hold upon the essential point of Damascus. Islam survives. Its religion is intact; therefore its material strength may return. Our religion is in peril, and who can be confident in the continued skill, let alone the continued obedience, of those who make and work our machines? … There is with us a complete chaos in religious doctrine…. We worship ourselves, we worship the nation; or we worship (some few of us) a particular economic arrangement believed to be the satisfaction of social justice…. Islam has not suffered this spiritual decline; and in the contrast between [our religious chaos and Islam’s] religious certitudes still strong throughout the Mohammedan world lies our peril.[33]

    In The Great Heresies (1938), Belloc argues that although “That Mohammedan culture happens to have fallen back in material applications; there is no reason whatever why it should not learn its new lesson and become our equal in all those temporal things which now alone give us our superiority over it—whereas in Faith we have fallen inferior to it.”[34]

    Belloc continued:

    It has always seemed to me possible, and even probable, that there would be a resurrection of Islam and that our sons or our grandsons would see the renewal of that tremendous struggle between the Christian culture and what has been for more than a thousand years its greatest opponent.[35]

    “There is no reason why its recent inferiority in mechanical construction, whether military or civilian, should continue indefinitely. Even a slight accession of material power would make the further control of Islam by an alien culture difficult. A little more and there will cease that which our time has taken for granted, the physical domination of Islam by the disintegrated Christendom we know.”

    At the time of his writing, the Islamic world was still largely under the rule of the European colonial powers and the threat to Britain was from Fascism and Nazism. Belloc, however, considered that Islam was permanently intent on destroying the Christian faith, as well as the West, which Christendom had built. In The Great Heresies, Belloc grouped the Protestant Reformation together with Islam as one of the major heresies threatening the “Universal Church”.—

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilaire_Belloc

  31. @Kylie
    She writes like a girl.

    Replies: @Malcolm X-Lax

    Her twitter feed is completely devoid of circumspection or moderation. This chick’s fightin’ nazis!

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Malcolm X-Lax


    Her twitter feed is completely devoid of circumspection or moderation
     
    Since when are circumspection and moderation the point of Twitter?

    "Completely devoid" rhymes with "completely destroyed", and is equally redundant.

    Replies: @Pericles, @Malcolm X-Lax

  32. The age-old racist notion is that white people are more intelligent than black people, something that has been revived by Charles Murray and Andrew Sullivan…..
    Personally, I have a fairly high IQ and yet I have always had a hard time with science and history because I have a terrible memory for facts.

    Her inane writing is an excellent example of a person whose intelligence level is lower than that of the average person of any race. Why does she think her readers should believe an argument made by someone who has “a terrible memory for facts.?”

  33. Anonymous[679] • Disclaimer says:

    Steve, have you seen Jonathan Chait’s devastating take down of racist crackpots like Charles Murray? If not, here it is:

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/04/these-urban-experiments-refute-charles-murrays-race-science.html

    Over the last decade or so, several educational experiments have demonstrated that well-designed reforms can yield rapid improvement among impoverished minority students. Harvard professors Will Dobbie and Roland Fryer studied the Promise Academy in the Harlem Children’s Zone, which combines intensive community services in health, nutrition, day care, parenting, and so on, alongside innovative instruction with high standards. Their experiment was designed to test whether the right combination of environmental changes could elicit the same academic results from black children as white ones. And they found that it could:

    Roland Fryer showed that the HCZ’s methods could finally Close The Gap, but none of the hereditarian racists running the mainstream media noticed!

    • Replies: @attilathehen
    @Anonymous

    Charles Murray is not a racist. His first wife was Thai and he has Thai offspring. He's a crackpot.

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @Mishra

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @Anonymous

    But will the "rapid improvements" actually end up closing The Gap?

    From Charles Murray's 2005 essay - "The Advantages of Social Apartheid" - the title is ironic.

    https://www.aei.org/publication/the-advantages-of-social-apartheid/


    "Our grandparents thought you couldn’t “do” with a youngster who wasn’t brought up right. Today’s translation: social programs for intervening with children at risk have consistently meager results. This finding has even longer shelves of analysis than the literature on the children of single parents.

    During the 1960s and 1970s, the Americans tried everything: pre-school socialization programs, enrichment programs in elementary schools, programs that provided guaranteed jobs for young people without skills, ones that provided on-the-job training, programs that sent young people without skills to residential centers for extended skills training and psychological preparation for the world of work, programs to prevent school dropout, and so on. These are just the efforts aimed at individuals. I won’t even try to list the varieties of programs that went under the heading of “community development”. They were also the most notorious failures.

    We know the programs didn’t work because all of them were accompanied by evaluations. I was a program evaluator from 1968 to 1981. The most eminent of America’s experts on program evaluation–a liberal sociologist named Peter Rossi–distilled this vast experience into what he called the Iron Law of Evaluation: “The expected value of any net impact assessment of any large-scale social program is zero.” The Iron Law has not been overturned by subsequent experience.

    I should add a corollary to it, however: “The initial media accounts of social programs that ultimately fail are always positive.” Every training program for young men or parenting program for young women can produce a heart-warming success story for the evening news. None produces long-term group results that survive scrutiny."
     
  34. @Space Ghost
    > I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy and went to graduate school with a whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.

    Maybe they weren't actually high IQ individuals? Wait...I thought IQ didn't exist.

    Replies: @Gringo

    Maybe they weren’t actually high IQ individuals? Wait…I thought IQ didn’t exist.

    Reminds me of a T-shirt I once saw: “My IQ test came back negative.”

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Gringo


    Reminds me of a T-shirt I once saw: “My IQ test came back negative.”
     
    Reminds me of a sideline jibe at a high school soccer game ca. 1973, referring to the two-digit number on a visiting player's jersey:

    "Is that your IQ, or your sperm count?"
  35. @Barnard
    @Ron Unz

    She is writing for the people who literally got ill before taking stats. They find her arguments, if you can call them that, authoritative. Having your emotions validated is far more important than science to them.

    Replies: @Mishra, @Forbes, @ogunsiron

    We f*ing LOVE science!
    We just don’t know what it is.

  36. @Anonymous
    Steve, have you seen Jonathan Chait's devastating take down of racist crackpots like Charles Murray? If not, here it is:

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/04/these-urban-experiments-refute-charles-murrays-race-science.html


    Over the last decade or so, several educational experiments have demonstrated that well-designed reforms can yield rapid improvement among impoverished minority students. Harvard professors Will Dobbie and Roland Fryer studied the Promise Academy in the Harlem Children’s Zone, which combines intensive community services in health, nutrition, day care, parenting, and so on, alongside innovative instruction with high standards. Their experiment was designed to test whether the right combination of environmental changes could elicit the same academic results from black children as white ones. And they found that it could:
     
    Roland Fryer showed that the HCZ's methods could finally Close The Gap, but none of the hereditarian racists running the mainstream media noticed!

    Replies: @attilathehen, @YetAnotherAnon

    Charles Murray is not a racist. His first wife was Thai and he has Thai offspring. He’s a crackpot.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    @attilathehen

    And were you also aware that our good friend John Derbyshire married someone Chinese? Commenter AnotherDad seems to be privy to all of the most fascinating details, as evidenced his uh EL James style descriptions of the ins and outs of their relationship...

    Replies: @Mishra, @AnotherDad

    , @Mishra
    @attilathehen

    As Tom Joad might have said, wherever there's a white man gettin' it on with a lovely asian lady, attilathehen will be there. To curse him. One might think you were jealous.

  37. @J.Ross
    OT Mexico has agreed to disband the "caravan" well before the border but will give humanitarian visas to the worst cases.
    https://twitter.com/aflores/status/980973431180156929?s=09

    Replies: @J.Ross, @David, @Forbes, @Alfa158

    Update to this: a spokeswoman for Pueblos Sin Fronteras (the NGO organizing the caravan) has said that they will continue to try to enter the US, but this does not rule out Mexican government action. The Mexican government insists they are not responding to pressure from any outside force.
    http://archive.is/MbvZX

  38. Someone needs to explain to her that in the realm of IQ testing, 100 is not a perfect score.

    • LOL: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Gringo
    @black sea

    Someone needs to explain to her that in the realm of IQ testing, 100 is not a perfect score.

    When my mother was a high school teacher, she had a conference with a parent who informed her that the school was remiss in its treatment of her child. He had an IQ of 100, so why wasn't he in honor classes? The parent didn't realize that an IQ of 100 meant average.

  39. OT Who could have foreseen a massive uptick in anti-Semitism following unrestrained Muslim immigration? Clearly these youths are being radicalized by Russian hackers on social media.
    Notice the last quoted bit.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-struggles-with-an-unfamiliar-form-of-anti-semitism-1522584002

    Solomon Michalski loved going to his new school on a leafy Berlin street because it was vibrant and diverse, with most students from migrant families. But when the teenage grandson of Holocaust survivors let it slip that he was Jewish, former friends started hissing insults at him in class, he says. Last year some of them brandishing what looked like a gun took him aside and said they would execute him.
    It was no isolated occurrence. The police registered 1,453 anti-Semitic incidents in Germany last year, more than in five of the previous seven years.
    German police attribute more than 90% of cases nationwide to far-right offenders. But Jewish activists and victim representatives say the data are misleading because police automatically label any incident where the perpetrators aren’t known as coming from the far right.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @J.Ross


    because police automatically label any incident where the perpetrators aren’t known as coming from the far right.

     

    Mein lolz, that does explain the uptick of far-right violence. We couldn't figure out who done it so it was Nazis.
    , @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    @J.Ross

    Let me guess, the far right Aryan power was named Mohamed Ahmed?

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @Oswald Spengler
    @J.Ross

    The perps aren't known or the authorities aren't too concerned with finding the real culprits because they would be politically embarrassing?

    Replies: @J.Ross

  40. @schnellandine
    Were I editor of a journal or magazine, anyone using any form of "racist" would be required to submit her definition, declare explicitly if that is considered good, benign, or evil, explain why, then stick to that definition for the article. Astounding, the number of revered writers who skip that step for corrupted words and get away with it. Cowardly slop.

    Replies: @Crawfurdmuir

    Anyone accusing someone else of being a “racist” should be presumed a charlatan until proven otherwise.

    Accusations of racism are most often efforts by the accuser to defame his opponent in debate, so as to avoid the necessity of rebutting his arguments using facts and logic. It’s the most frequently encountered variety of “poisoning the wells.”

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Crawfurdmuir

    This. I was just watching on old C-SPAN interview of Joe Sobran (so old that Brian Lamb almost had hair) and he put the thing very well. It was good to see such an important and frequently visited point phrased elegantly, but it was also sad that the bad guys won and what Sobran felt free to ignore is now the rule of all our discourse.

    , @Forbes
    @Crawfurdmuir

    Well, name-calling and ad hominem aren't arguments, so at best, anyone using that approach should be ignored.

  41. Anonymous[382] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonym
    @syonredux

    University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). If you are a humanities major without math aptitude, it would be practically impossible I would think.

    Basic statistics is easy for people with math aptitude, but a vast number of people struggle with the concept that "group X on average have a higher IQ than group Y" is not disproven by the existence of an individual in group Y with a higher IQ than group X. Substitute anything for IQ, same basic point.

    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it's having people who understand math run the country.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Yan Shen, @Twinkie, @Lin, @for-the-record, @AnotherDad, @J1234, @Pat Boyle, @Bill, @Hans Tholstrup

    Non-STEM majors usually take a special statistics for social science course, not the main statistics sequence for applied math majors. Also, if you check the authors, most studies have a dedicated person for the statistics.

    Nevertheless, a principle investigator without a good grasp of statistics will result in studies whose very conceptions are bad.

    A really smart person who is genuinely interested in social sciences, or even some of the humanities, would do well to major in STEM as an undergraduate, for instance applied math, physics, or hard economics, and then get in a masters or doctorate program for the social science. It’s easy to catch up on the soft stuff later, but not so with the quantification.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Anonymous

    "A really smart person who is genuinely interested in social sciences, or even some of the humanities, would do well to major in STEM as an undergraduate, for instance applied math, physics, or hard economics, and then get in a masters or doctorate program for the social science. It’s easy to catch up on the soft stuff later, but not so with the quantification."

    Or even before. When Greek was a requirement, it weeded out the bullshit artists. Plato, of course, took Greek for granted, but his Academy had a sign saying "Let no one but a geometer enter." If Greek and 4 years of high school math were a requirement for entering college (you know, like some old time Eton deal), even the humanities would be serious again.

  42. Maybe she self smarted .

  43. While Reich addresses the possibility of genetic differences among races more generally…

    The standards of science require Reich to be certain of his conclusions to better than 95%. Conversely, the probability must be less than 5% that the null hypothesis — that there are no genetic differences between races — is true. Therefore, the so-called “possibility” LeTourneau speaks of is in fact the best scientific explanation.

    The age-old racist notion is that white people are more intelligent than black people, something that has been revived by Charles Murray and Andrew Sullivan.

  44. Anon[382] • Disclaimer says:

    A WASP moves to New York, and the whole office is Jewish, so she starts dating Jews…

    I am tired of being a Jewish man’s rebellion

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2018/03/29/i-am-tired-of-being-a-jewish-mans-

    After we broke up, both men went on to find serious partners who were, in fact, Jewish…. why did they say it didn’t matter and then decide it did — and find partners who fit the description they said they weren’t actually looking for?

    I guess dating me had been their last act of defiance against cultural or familial expectations before finding someone who warranted their parents’ approval — perhaps the equivalent of a woman dating a motorcycle-driving, leather-jacket wearing “bad boy” before settling down with a banker….

    • Replies: @Anonym
    @Anon

    Ouch! The comments are very hostile. Her "writing" is terrible apparently. It seems they wish to pogrom her out of the newspaper.

    , @Forbes
    @Anon

    Why would a woman date men from her office--unless she wanted to become the office carousel to be ridden by many? And then pouring out her naivety in a newspaper... Does she also walk around with a target on her back??

  45. @Malcolm X-Lax
    @Kylie

    Her twitter feed is completely devoid of circumspection or moderation. This chick's fightin' nazis!

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Her twitter feed is completely devoid of circumspection or moderation

    Since when are circumspection and moderation the point of Twitter?

    “Completely devoid” rhymes with “completely destroyed”, and is equally redundant.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @Reg Cæsar

    But it would be fun to present her normie articles with her hardcore hate twitter interspersed.


    Oh ho ho, I have a high IQ but a terrible memory and no facility for reasoning. So like all of us, I have had my struggles.

    WHITE MAN -- DIE. NOW.

    But I persevered and got my degree from a very expensive university, I will tell you.

    DEATH TO THE ORANGE MONKEY (video of author in vagina costume spitting on hooters girl)

    Yet it does seem almost unfair, unreasonable even, to try to compute an average of IQ for a population. A population that, I remind you, has been historically oppressed in ghettos.

    IT IS A MORAL REQUIREMENT TO TAKE IN ALL REFUGEES. IT JUST IS.

    Ghettos that certainly remind us of Europe and the Holocaust.

    PALESTINIANS BTFO LOL (video of shootings in the West Bank)

    Can you even compute such a nasty average, or as statisticians themselves significantly call it, a 'mean'?

     

    Replies: @AndrewR

    , @Malcolm X-Lax
    @Reg Cæsar

    LOL. It was more an over-all impression of a lack of variation in her political outlook. But, sure, good point. P.S. I like to think of my use of "completely devoid" as a "very unique" characteristic of my writing style.

  46. @Anonym
    @syonredux

    University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). If you are a humanities major without math aptitude, it would be practically impossible I would think.

    Basic statistics is easy for people with math aptitude, but a vast number of people struggle with the concept that "group X on average have a higher IQ than group Y" is not disproven by the existence of an individual in group Y with a higher IQ than group X. Substitute anything for IQ, same basic point.

    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it's having people who understand math run the country.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Yan Shen, @Twinkie, @Lin, @for-the-record, @AnotherDad, @J1234, @Pat Boyle, @Bill, @Hans Tholstrup

    http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2007/10/bounded-cognition.html

    Sometimes, people are just avoiding more cumbersome modes of expression — “Xs are P-er than Ys” instead of (say) “The mean P measurement in a sample of Xs was greater than the mean P measurement in a sample of Ys, by an amount that would arise by chance fewer than once in 20 trials, assuming that the two samples were drawn from a single population in which P is normally distributed”. But I submit that even most intellectuals don’t really know how to think about the evaluation and comparison of distributions — not even simple univariate gaussian distributions, much less more complex situations. And many people who do sort of understand this, at some level, generally fall back on thinking (as well as talking) about properties of group prototypes rather than properties of distributions of individual characteristics.

    Do you think the kinds of people who freaked out over James Damore’s memo generally tended to be statistically ignorant or just obnoxious ideologues? Now obviously not everyone at Google works in what would be considered a “technical” role, but it’s hard to imagine any engineer or data scientist or product analyst or the likes not actually knowing basic statistics at that company. Google seems too self selected for that to be the case. I suspect the issue is in part a lack of statistical acumen among the general population, but probably also in large part just the result of ideological biases and people believing whatever they want.

    Interesting comment about the Chinese. I wonder if the reason why East Asians in general tend to be far less PC than other ethnic groups is in part because of the skew towards mathematical reasoning…

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Yan Shen


    Interesting comment about the Chinese. I wonder if the reason why East Asians in general tend to be far less PC than other ethnic groups is in part because of the skew towards mathematical reasoning…
     
    I think it's definitely a factor, but i'd guess it's more like a third order factor.

    The Chinese in fact have *more* compliant personality traits than white people. (Interestingly while their IQ skew--more mathematical/spatial--is more "male" relative to whites, their personality package--more compliant, cooperative--is more "female" relative to whites.) Whites are actually more independent, less inclined to get with the program.

    The Chinese have certainly complied with really stupid ideology in the past--the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution. They just have a much saner ideology now. (Their insane elite ideologies just killed millions of Chinese, our elite ideology is designed to kill off white people in total.)

    My take--SWAG--for why the Chinese are so much saner:
    -- lower affective empathy
    -- lack of Christian love-thy-neighbor universalism
    -- less exposure to Jewish propaganda

    (I think *not* being fluent in English and not continuously exposed to Hollywood and other American media right now, improves the survival probability of any nation.)

    Math skew of IQ would rank behind all those as a casual factor in Chinese sanity.

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @Lin, @ogunsiron

  47. • Replies: @Pericles
    @eah

    I see. Jim Belushi has transitioned.

    , @Malcolm X-Lax
    @eah

    My guess is she is VERY open to dating outside of her race.

  48. @Crawfurdmuir
    @schnellandine

    Anyone accusing someone else of being a "racist" should be presumed a charlatan until proven otherwise.

    Accusations of racism are most often efforts by the accuser to defame his opponent in debate, so as to avoid the necessity of rebutting his arguments using facts and logic. It's the most frequently encountered variety of "poisoning the wells."

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Forbes

    This. I was just watching on old C-SPAN interview of Joe Sobran (so old that Brian Lamb almost had hair) and he put the thing very well. It was good to see such an important and frequently visited point phrased elegantly, but it was also sad that the bad guys won and what Sobran felt free to ignore is now the rule of all our discourse.

  49. @Gringo
    @Space Ghost

    Maybe they weren’t actually high IQ individuals? Wait…I thought IQ didn’t exist.

    Reminds me of a T-shirt I once saw: "My IQ test came back negative."

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Reminds me of a T-shirt I once saw: “My IQ test came back negative.”

    Reminds me of a sideline jibe at a high school soccer game ca. 1973, referring to the two-digit number on a visiting player’s jersey:

    “Is that your IQ, or your sperm count?”

  50. … Personally, I have a fairly high IQ and yet I have always had a hard time with science and history because I have a terrible memory for facts. I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy and went to graduate school with a whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.

    • Replies: @Mishra
    @Mr. Anon

    Barbie, honey...what's with the Roman Salute?

  51. @Anonym
    @syonredux

    University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). If you are a humanities major without math aptitude, it would be practically impossible I would think.

    Basic statistics is easy for people with math aptitude, but a vast number of people struggle with the concept that "group X on average have a higher IQ than group Y" is not disproven by the existence of an individual in group Y with a higher IQ than group X. Substitute anything for IQ, same basic point.

    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it's having people who understand math run the country.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Yan Shen, @Twinkie, @Lin, @for-the-record, @AnotherDad, @J1234, @Pat Boyle, @Bill, @Hans Tholstrup

    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it’s having people who understand math run the country.

    I don’t know whether this is true. I don’t think the Party is all that meritocratic.

    • Replies: @Daniel Williams
    @Twinkie

    Yeah, but it's definitely all Chinese. And you know they're all good at math.

    , @Yan Shen
    @Twinkie

    Well I don't know how meritocratic the CPC is, but until recently a high percentage of the top leadership did have engineering degrees or the likes, although that appears to have changed recently...

    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/2117169/out-technocrats-chinas-new-breed-politicians


    Only a decade ago, eight of the nine top Communist Party leaders studied engineering or natural sciences – the most sought-after majors when the country was struggling to industrialise.

    President Xi Jinping, who studied chemical engineering at Tsinghua University, was the only one with such experience, but he went straight to the government after graduation and pursued a higher degree in Marxist theories and political education.

    Among his peers, two studied political education for their first degree and the rest majored in management, philosophy, politics or law.
     

    Of course this doesn't necessarily suggest that these men aren't reasonably competent mathematically...

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Highlander

    , @res
    @Twinkie

    I'd be interested in seeing an analysis of that.

    My sense is that we can make an analogy between the US and Chinese systems being similarly meritocratic (or not). One big difference is that China seems to intentionally draw from a pool of people with a technical background while the US draws from a pool of lawyers (and not the patent kind). Even if the further selection process is not meritocratic that initial selection will have an effect on the results.

    Both groups (and approaches) have their strengths and weaknesses, but I think Anonym's basic point is sound. I think the rise of the professional politician and the route into that group being seen almost exclusively as law is a terrible trend for this country. Having engineers only running the country would be different, but probably just as bad.

    A related question, how do public conversations about societal choices in China compare? I talked about leaders above, but journalists (is there a good equivalent in China?) driving conversations (either on their own or as proxies) while being innumerate seems like an equally big problem.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @J.Ross

  52. @Twinkie
    @Anonym


    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it’s having people who understand math run the country.
     
    I don't know whether this is true. I don't think the Party is all that meritocratic.

    Replies: @Daniel Williams, @Yan Shen, @res

    Yeah, but it’s definitely all Chinese. And you know they’re all good at math.

  53. @Jack D

    The age-old racist notion is that white people are more intelligent than black people, something that has been revived by Charles Murray and Andrew Sullivan.
     
    I don't know where those terrible racists got the idea that was true. There is certainly no statistical evidence whatsoever for that load of racist nonsense, except for every single study done in the last 100 years.

    Replies: @Bill jones, @Mishra, @anon

  54. The age-old racist notion is that white people are more intelligent than black people, something that has been revived by Charles Murray …

    “Revived”? When did anyone not think that?

    • Replies: @JimB
    @Daniel Williams

    The notion may be age-old, but the word racist was invented by people with their own supremicist political agenda in the 20th Century.

  55. @inertial
    http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-every-one-complains-of-a-poor-memory-no-one-of-a-weak-judgment-francois-de-la-rochefoucauld-127-21-76.jpg

    Replies: @bartok

    Zing!

  56. @danand
    You'd think 20 years of seeing it with her own eyes would have made Nancy at least a little more realist?

    For over 20 years, Nancy was the executive director of a nonprofit organization whose mission focused on juvenile crime prevention.
     

    Replies: @bartok

    For over 20 years, Nancy was the executive director of a nonprofit organization whose mission focused on juvenile crime prevention.

    As the executive director, perhaps she had a policy of “never bring me bad news, because bad news is racist.”

  57. @attilathehen
    @Anonymous

    Charles Murray is not a racist. His first wife was Thai and he has Thai offspring. He's a crackpot.

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @Mishra

    And were you also aware that our good friend John Derbyshire married someone Chinese? Commenter AnotherDad seems to be privy to all of the most fascinating details, as evidenced his uh EL James style descriptions of the ins and outs of their relationship…

    • Replies: @Mishra
    @Yan Shen

    Yeah, she's only posted about it a couple hundred times...

    , @AnotherDad
    @Yan Shen


    And were you also aware that our good friend John Derbyshire married someone Chinese? Commenter AnotherDad seems to be privy to all of the most fascinating details, as evidenced his uh EL James style descriptions of the ins and outs of their relationship…
     
    Huh?

    I don't know the Derbyshires nor am privy to any details of their relationship--other than what Derb mentions in his columns or podcasts (which i probably get to a half or a third of). (I suppose i should send Derb a few bucks when i'm getting my Sailer contribution together.)

    I've just pointed out the weird "Yan Shen" obsession with Derbyshire, where you can hardly hold back in any extended comment of more than a few paragraphs without name checking Derb as somehow obsessed with blacks. Heck, Ron Unz--very generously--gave you a column and ... sure enough ... it was too tough to for you to get through it without the mandatory Derb shot at the end. I had to laugh. You'd gone on and on and on, and then at the end ... you just couldn't help yourself. (Yes, he's banging a Chinese gal--get over it already!)

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @Yan Shen, @Mishra

  58. @attilathehen
    @Anonymous

    Charles Murray is not a racist. His first wife was Thai and he has Thai offspring. He's a crackpot.

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @Mishra

    As Tom Joad might have said, wherever there’s a white man gettin’ it on with a lovely asian lady, attilathehen will be there. To curse him. One might think you were jealous.

    • LOL: Forbes
  59. … Personally, I have a fairly high IQ. . .

    . . . almost a perfect 100, the school psychologist told me in the seventh grade.

    I got 100 on a lot of my essays in creative writing. I came pretty close on a lot of math quizzes too, at least before Algebra started making me nauseous.

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Veracitor

    nauseated

    It was the coursework in marriage and family therapy that may have helped get her to nauseous.

    Replies: @Veracitor

  60. @Bill jones
    @Jack D

    And the history of civilization for the past 500 years

    Replies: @bartok

    And the history of civilization for the past 500 years

    And the record of non-civilization for thousands of years prior to that.

    With league on league of ocean strand and miles of inland seas, for four thousand years he watched their surface ripple under the wind, heard the thunder of the surf on his beach, the howl of the storm over his head, gazed on the dim blue horizon calling him to worlds that lie beyond, and yet he never dreamed a sail! – The Clansman

  61. @Twinkie
    @Anonym


    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it’s having people who understand math run the country.
     
    I don't know whether this is true. I don't think the Party is all that meritocratic.

    Replies: @Daniel Williams, @Yan Shen, @res

    Well I don’t know how meritocratic the CPC is, but until recently a high percentage of the top leadership did have engineering degrees or the likes, although that appears to have changed recently…

    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/2117169/out-technocrats-chinas-new-breed-politicians

    Only a decade ago, eight of the nine top Communist Party leaders studied engineering or natural sciences – the most sought-after majors when the country was struggling to industrialise.

    President Xi Jinping, who studied chemical engineering at Tsinghua University, was the only one with such experience, but he went straight to the government after graduation and pursued a higher degree in Marxist theories and political education.

    Among his peers, two studied political education for their first degree and the rest majored in management, philosophy, politics or law.

    Of course this doesn’t necessarily suggest that these men aren’t reasonably competent mathematically…

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @Yan Shen

    So, the "China is heading for a fall" types may be right?

    , @Highlander
    @Yan Shen


    a higher degree in Marxist theories and political education
     
    Excuse me while I laugh my ass off.
  62. @Mr. Anon

    … Personally, I have a fairly high IQ and yet I have always had a hard time with science and history because I have a terrible memory for facts. I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy and went to graduate school with a whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO0cvqT1tAE

    Replies: @Mishra

    Barbie, honey…what’s with the Roman Salute?

  63. @Yan Shen
    @attilathehen

    And were you also aware that our good friend John Derbyshire married someone Chinese? Commenter AnotherDad seems to be privy to all of the most fascinating details, as evidenced his uh EL James style descriptions of the ins and outs of their relationship...

    Replies: @Mishra, @AnotherDad

    Yeah, she’s only posted about it a couple hundred times…

    • LOL: Yan Shen
  64. IA tests are biased in Cavour of whites males

    No wonder you guys prefer them

    Thank goodness that you will soon lose institutional power

    • Replies: @Realist
    @Tiny Duck


    IA tests are biased in Cavour of whites males
     
    Little Dick is drinking again.

    Replies: @Forbes

  65. @Anon
    A WASP moves to New York, and the whole office is Jewish, so she starts dating Jews...

    I am tired of being a Jewish man's rebellion

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2018/03/29/i-am-tired-of-being-a-jewish-mans-

    After we broke up, both men went on to find serious partners who were, in fact, Jewish.... why did they say it didn’t matter and then decide it did — and find partners who fit the description they said they weren’t actually looking for?

    I guess dating me had been their last act of defiance against cultural or familial expectations before finding someone who warranted their parents’ approval — perhaps the equivalent of a woman dating a motorcycle-driving, leather-jacket wearing “bad boy” before settling down with a banker....
     

    Replies: @Anonym, @Forbes

    Ouch! The comments are very hostile. Her “writing” is terrible apparently. It seems they wish to pogrom her out of the newspaper.

  66. @Flip
    Women personalize everything and then try to make it out as something universal.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Harry Baldwin

    Women personalize everything and then try to make it out as something universal.

    I learn something new about women every time I read iSteve.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Rosie

    Don't take it personally ...

    .. or so universally.

  67. @Rosie
    @Flip


    Women personalize everything and then try to make it out as something universal.
     
    I learn something new about women every time I read iSteve.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Don’t take it personally …

    .. or so universally.

  68. > I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy and went to graduate school with a whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.

    Versus, you know, all those 90 IQ people who can just go on for hours and hours about the subtle differences between the normal and t-distribution. Many of the biggest names in statistics have had exceptionally low IQs. Ronald Fisher was actually clinically retarded.

    Plenty of ‘tards out there living really kick-ass lives. My first wife was ‘tarded, she’s a pilot now.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Doug

    Kudos for my favorite line from Idiocracy, Doug.

    You reminded me about the "literally sick" part. How does that work? Is it like "I don't understand what the bar means over ... auugghhh, retch, retch, the "x" ... auugggh, retch, means?" and later "Professor, why is the variance, augghhh, OMG.... retch, excuse me, squared, and then we just take the square root ... retch ... of .... thanks for the trash can ... retch ... again? [wipes chin]"

    It does sound hard when you get literally sick. You would think all of the puking would keep her weight down, I mean, statistically speaking (oh weight, she's one of the outliers.)

  69. “I have always had a hard time with science and history because I have a terrible memory for facts.

    If Miss LeTourneau can’t memorize facts, then she couldn’t she at least get the concept that science DOES NOT require memorization of many facts, while history DOES. This is why you can have open book tests in science and especially engineering. It’s the understanding that’a important.

    I can see why she’d do well in her “marriage and family therapy” studies, as those are indeed devoid of facts. If your wife ever takes you to see someone like this lady in her professional capacity, just get ahead of the game, and “donate” most of your big assets to some well-trusted friends.

    • Replies: @Realist
    @Achmed E. Newman


    If Miss LeTourneau can’t memorize facts, then she couldn’t she at least get the concept that science DOES NOT require memorization of many facts, while history DOES. This is why you can have open book tests in science and especially engineering. It’s the understanding that’a important.
     
    Exactly
  70. @Doug
    > I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy and went to graduate school with a whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.

    Versus, you know, all those 90 IQ people who can just go on for hours and hours about the subtle differences between the normal and t-distribution. Many of the biggest names in statistics have had exceptionally low IQs. Ronald Fisher was actually clinically retarded.

    Plenty of 'tards out there living really kick-ass lives. My first wife was 'tarded, she's a pilot now.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Kudos for my favorite line from Idiocracy, Doug.

    You reminded me about the “literally sick” part. How does that work? Is it like “I don’t understand what the bar means over … auugghhh, retch, retch, the “x” … auugggh, retch, means?” and later “Professor, why is the variance, augghhh, OMG…. retch, excuse me, squared, and then we just take the square root … retch … of …. thanks for the trash can … retch … again? [wipes chin]”

    It does sound hard when you get literally sick. You would think all of the puking would keep her weight down, I mean, statistically speaking (oh weight, she’s one of the outliers.)

  71. @Moses

    I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy...
     
    That's the stop word for me. Nothing of value can come out of this person's mouth.

    Replies: @Realist, @TheJester, @Olorin, @anonymous, @Derp

    A community college degree in marriage and family therapy should be sufficient….very low IQ subject.

  72. I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy….

    I got my??????
    How about:
    I received my….
    I earned my….
    I was awarded my….

    • Replies: @Neuday
    @Realist

    Don't you understand? She has a Master's Degree, therefore she has a "fairly high IQ". It's just that niche disciplines like math, vocabulary and English composition make her feel like not eating for an hour. IQ isn't about general intelligence, bigot.

    Replies: @Realist

    , @Forbes
    @Realist

    She writes exactly as she speaks, without thinking--mental incontinence, a verbal diarrhea.

  73. @Achmed E. Newman

    "I have always had a hard time with science and history because I have a terrible memory for facts.
     
    If Miss LeTourneau can't memorize facts, then she couldn't she at least get the concept that science DOES NOT require memorization of many facts, while history DOES. This is why you can have open book tests in science and especially engineering. It's the understanding that'a important.

    I can see why she'd do well in her "marriage and family therapy" studies, as those are indeed devoid of facts. If your wife ever takes you to see someone like this lady in her professional capacity, just get ahead of the game, and "donate" most of your big assets to some well-trusted friends.

    Replies: @Realist

    If Miss LeTourneau can’t memorize facts, then she couldn’t she at least get the concept that science DOES NOT require memorization of many facts, while history DOES. This is why you can have open book tests in science and especially engineering. It’s the understanding that’a important.

    Exactly

  74. @Tiny Duck
    IA tests are biased in Cavour of whites males


    No wonder you guys prefer them

    Thank goodness that you will soon lose institutional power

    Replies: @Realist

    IA tests are biased in Cavour of whites males

    Little Dick is drinking again.

    • Replies: @Forbes
    @Realist

    If only that was the excuse.

    Replies: @Realist

  75. @Anonymous
    Steve, have you seen Jonathan Chait's devastating take down of racist crackpots like Charles Murray? If not, here it is:

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/04/these-urban-experiments-refute-charles-murrays-race-science.html


    Over the last decade or so, several educational experiments have demonstrated that well-designed reforms can yield rapid improvement among impoverished minority students. Harvard professors Will Dobbie and Roland Fryer studied the Promise Academy in the Harlem Children’s Zone, which combines intensive community services in health, nutrition, day care, parenting, and so on, alongside innovative instruction with high standards. Their experiment was designed to test whether the right combination of environmental changes could elicit the same academic results from black children as white ones. And they found that it could:
     
    Roland Fryer showed that the HCZ's methods could finally Close The Gap, but none of the hereditarian racists running the mainstream media noticed!

    Replies: @attilathehen, @YetAnotherAnon

    But will the “rapid improvements” actually end up closing The Gap?

    From Charles Murray’s 2005 essay – “The Advantages of Social Apartheid” – the title is ironic.

    https://www.aei.org/publication/the-advantages-of-social-apartheid/

    “Our grandparents thought you couldn’t “do” with a youngster who wasn’t brought up right. Today’s translation: social programs for intervening with children at risk have consistently meager results. This finding has even longer shelves of analysis than the literature on the children of single parents.

    During the 1960s and 1970s, the Americans tried everything: pre-school socialization programs, enrichment programs in elementary schools, programs that provided guaranteed jobs for young people without skills, ones that provided on-the-job training, programs that sent young people without skills to residential centers for extended skills training and psychological preparation for the world of work, programs to prevent school dropout, and so on. These are just the efforts aimed at individuals. I won’t even try to list the varieties of programs that went under the heading of “community development”. They were also the most notorious failures.

    We know the programs didn’t work because all of them were accompanied by evaluations. I was a program evaluator from 1968 to 1981. The most eminent of America’s experts on program evaluation–a liberal sociologist named Peter Rossi–distilled this vast experience into what he called the Iron Law of Evaluation: “The expected value of any net impact assessment of any large-scale social program is zero.” The Iron Law has not been overturned by subsequent experience.

    I should add a corollary to it, however: “The initial media accounts of social programs that ultimately fail are always positive.” Every training program for young men or parenting program for young women can produce a heart-warming success story for the evening news. None produces long-term group results that survive scrutiny.

  76. @J.Ross
    OT Who could have foreseen a massive uptick in anti-Semitism following unrestrained Muslim immigration? Clearly these youths are being radicalized by Russian hackers on social media.
    Notice the last quoted bit.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-struggles-with-an-unfamiliar-form-of-anti-semitism-1522584002

    Solomon Michalski loved going to his new school on a leafy Berlin street because it was vibrant and diverse, with most students from migrant families. But when the teenage grandson of Holocaust survivors let it slip that he was Jewish, former friends started hissing insults at him in class, he says. Last year some of them brandishing what looked like a gun took him aside and said they would execute him.
    It was no isolated occurrence. The police registered 1,453 anti-Semitic incidents in Germany last year, more than in five of the previous seven years.
    German police attribute more than 90% of cases nationwide to far-right offenders. But Jewish activists and victim representatives say the data are misleading because police automatically label any incident where the perpetrators aren’t known as coming from the far right.
     

    Replies: @Pericles, @ThirdWorldSteveReader, @Oswald Spengler

    because police automatically label any incident where the perpetrators aren’t known as coming from the far right.

    Mein lolz, that does explain the uptick of far-right violence. We couldn’t figure out who done it so it was Nazis.

  77. anonymous[340] • Disclaimer says:
    @Veracitor

    … Personally, I have a fairly high IQ. . .
     
    . . . almost a perfect 100, the school psychologist told me in the seventh grade.

    I got 100 on a lot of my essays in creative writing. I came pretty close on a lot of math quizzes too, at least before Algebra started making me nauseous.

    Replies: @anonymous

    nauseated

    It was the coursework in marriage and family therapy that may have helped get her to nauseous.

    • Replies: @Veracitor
    @anonymous

    Call her up, dude, and ask her "what do you call that feeling, you know, like you're about to throw up, starts with an 'n'?"

    Betcha a nickel she says "nauseous."

    When I'm mocking a woman who claims to "have a fairly high IQ," I'm not going to put an unabridged dictionary in her mouth-- unless I'm crediting her with Claudia Rankine- (or John McWhorter-) style intellectual word salad, in which case she will use three-dollar words freely but incorrectly.

  78. @Reg Cæsar
    @Malcolm X-Lax


    Her twitter feed is completely devoid of circumspection or moderation
     
    Since when are circumspection and moderation the point of Twitter?

    "Completely devoid" rhymes with "completely destroyed", and is equally redundant.

    Replies: @Pericles, @Malcolm X-Lax

    But it would be fun to present her normie articles with her hardcore hate twitter interspersed.

    Oh ho ho, I have a high IQ but a terrible memory and no facility for reasoning. So like all of us, I have had my struggles.

    WHITE MAN — DIE. NOW.

    But I persevered and got my degree from a very expensive university, I will tell you.

    DEATH TO THE ORANGE MONKEY (video of author in vagina costume spitting on hooters girl)

    Yet it does seem almost unfair, unreasonable even, to try to compute an average of IQ for a population. A population that, I remind you, has been historically oppressed in ghettos.

    IT IS A MORAL REQUIREMENT TO TAKE IN ALL REFUGEES. IT JUST IS.

    Ghettos that certainly remind us of Europe and the Holocaust.

    PALESTINIANS BTFO LOL (video of shootings in the West Bank)

    Can you even compute such a nasty average, or as statisticians themselves significantly call it, a ‘mean’?

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Pericles

    I'm sure there are exceptions, but most leftists tend to side with the Palestinians over the Israelis. This boils down to the simple fact that Palestinians tend to be browner than Israelis.

    Replies: @Pericles, @ogunsiron

  79. @eah
    She appears to have no trouble remembering where the refrigerator is. Or how to crop a foto.

    https://kwtri4b8r0ep8ho61118ipob-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Nancy-LeTourneau.jpg

    Replies: @Pericles, @Malcolm X-Lax

    I see. Jim Belushi has transitioned.

  80. Lin says:
    @Anonym
    @syonredux

    University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). If you are a humanities major without math aptitude, it would be practically impossible I would think.

    Basic statistics is easy for people with math aptitude, but a vast number of people struggle with the concept that "group X on average have a higher IQ than group Y" is not disproven by the existence of an individual in group Y with a higher IQ than group X. Substitute anything for IQ, same basic point.

    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it's having people who understand math run the country.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Yan Shen, @Twinkie, @Lin, @for-the-record, @AnotherDad, @J1234, @Pat Boyle, @Bill, @Hans Tholstrup

    I’ve a math degree and I have done some pretty tough courses.
    “University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). ”
    No. That’s not true. Most universities offer one term (easier)statistics course for business and social sciences majors.
    BTW, I found most engineering and science(other than math) majors couldn’t do the following question off hand:
    To Prove:
    (- 1) x (- 1) = + 1
    ……………
    A math fact all junior grade pupils learn but few college grads can prove.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    @Lin

    No. That’s not true. Most universities offer one term (easier)statistics course for business and social sciences majors.

    I did a stats for engineers course (from memory that's what it was), I want to say it was a junior level course, may have been a sophomore level, it's a bit hazy. It wasn't modern physics level hard, but it was no walk in the park. It was on a fairly similar level to the other engineering course work.

    I am sure that any stats course for business or social science majors is going to be much easier than the course I did. So likely my mistake in saying that any university level course in statistics is going to be hard even for someone with math aptitude. But... it is no surprise that the humanities people are going to find even that tough going.

    I had a go at your proof, and eventually googled. Started out on the right track but didn't play with it enough. It has been a long time since I did any proofs. When you get midway through a career, you tend to get good at the sort of problems you need to solve but I can certainly tell that my fluid intelligence was not what it was when I was 18, that's for sure.

    https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_gxYAfFM1cj0/S6hXmZ4qtjI/AAAAAAAAAUc/mBtqICfKs2w/brainage.jpg

    I knew an engineer who liked proofs and went into grad school. Not the most practical person. Most engineers tend to the practical, they want to do something with the math.

    , @Pat Boyle
    @Lin

    You are of course completely right. I taught statistics at night for a new school (John F. Kennedy College) that had had no math courses. They were in danger of losing their accreditation so they recruited me. I had taken stat as an undergraduate in Psychology. At George Mason I was the best math student on campus but GM in those days was no Cal Tech. I never considered myself particularly good at math.

    Later I went back to grad school and took a lot more math. I took statistics in the math department. If you study stat as a branch of math it can be challenging but the "cook book" stat taught to Psychology and Sociology students is barely math at all. I know because I taught stat to just such students very successfully.

    Replies: @anon

    , @ogunsiron
    @Lin

    attempt 1:
    (-1) x (-1) = (-1)^2 = (0 - 1)^2 = (0*0 - 2*0*1 + 1^2) = ( 0 + 0 + 1 ) = 1

    attempt 2:
    let y a real number.
    if y * (-1) x (-1) = y then (-1) x (-1) = multiplicative identity = 1
    test if y (-1)(-1) - y = 0
    y (-1)(-1) - y = y( (-1)(-1) - 1 ) = y( -(-1) - 1) = y( (1) - 1 ) = y ( 0 ) = 0 QED ?

    I feel attempt2 relies on more basic algebra than attempt1.

  81. @Anonym
    @syonredux

    University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). If you are a humanities major without math aptitude, it would be practically impossible I would think.

    Basic statistics is easy for people with math aptitude, but a vast number of people struggle with the concept that "group X on average have a higher IQ than group Y" is not disproven by the existence of an individual in group Y with a higher IQ than group X. Substitute anything for IQ, same basic point.

    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it's having people who understand math run the country.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Yan Shen, @Twinkie, @Lin, @for-the-record, @AnotherDad, @J1234, @Pat Boyle, @Bill, @Hans Tholstrup

    If you are a humanities major without math aptitude, it would be practically impossible I would think.

    Check out this text on statistics for the humanities, and see if your opinion is the same afterwards.

    Statistics for the Humanities
    For students of Archaeology, Area Studies, Classics, English, Film, History, Linguistics, Modern Languages, Music, Philosophy and Religious Studies

    http://www.statisticsforhumanities.net/book/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/StatisticsforHumanities%205Sept14.pdf

  82. “Racism” should be an automatic libelous offense if made by a private citizen, an impeachable act with the loss of government pension if made by a public official. Punishment falls on the accuser unless the charge could be substantiated and confirmed by empirically verifiable evidence based on a single, legally promulgated definition of “racism” with clear, operational terms.

    For more, see: http://fosterspeak.blogspot.com/2017/07/against-anti-racism-and-hemeneutics-of.html

    • Replies: @schnellandine
    @Stephen Paul Foster

    So you're going to legislate discourse into honesty. I'm sure nothing would backfire there. What next for the great programmer of men--price controls?

    Because humans find myriad ways around constraints, the result of your clay molding attempt would be increased dishonesty and smearing, in an even cloudier intellectual sphere.

    As a smart guy wrote correctly long ago, even defamation tort law is unethical, with the result being increased weight given defamatory statements. If defamation not discouraged unnaturally, the noise ambience protects naturally. We're seeing it now with "racist", an epithet running out of fuel each time used, and a reliable speedy indicator of who's a blackguard. These people are self-identifying as jackals, and you want to make that illegal?

    , @ben tillman
    @Stephen Paul Foster


    “Racism” should be an automatic libelous offense if made by a private citizen . . . .
     
    Who says it isn't already?
  83. Is this the one who bedded a young Billy Pulau?

  84. @J.Ross
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Or: I think I'm smart because I took advanced classes in CultMarxed humanities departments.


    I got my master's degree in mariage and family therapy
     
    Spoke too soon, poetry is objectively harder when taught properly (meter is math).

    Replies: @dr kill

    I enjoy her use of got instead of earned.

  85. “The difference between science and the fuzzy subjects is that science requires reasoning, while those other subjects merely require scholarship.”–Robert Heinlein

  86. @Lin
    @Anonym

    I've a math degree and I have done some pretty tough courses.
    "University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). "
    No. That's not true. Most universities offer one term (easier)statistics course for business and social sciences majors.
    BTW, I found most engineering and science(other than math) majors couldn't do the following question off hand:
    To Prove:
    (- 1) x (- 1) = + 1
    ...............
    A math fact all junior grade pupils learn but few college grads can prove.

    Replies: @Anonym, @Pat Boyle, @ogunsiron

    No. That’s not true. Most universities offer one term (easier)statistics course for business and social sciences majors.

    I did a stats for engineers course (from memory that’s what it was), I want to say it was a junior level course, may have been a sophomore level, it’s a bit hazy. It wasn’t modern physics level hard, but it was no walk in the park. It was on a fairly similar level to the other engineering course work.

    I am sure that any stats course for business or social science majors is going to be much easier than the course I did. So likely my mistake in saying that any university level course in statistics is going to be hard even for someone with math aptitude. But… it is no surprise that the humanities people are going to find even that tough going.

    I had a go at your proof, and eventually googled. Started out on the right track but didn’t play with it enough. It has been a long time since I did any proofs. When you get midway through a career, you tend to get good at the sort of problems you need to solve but I can certainly tell that my fluid intelligence was not what it was when I was 18, that’s for sure.

    I knew an engineer who liked proofs and went into grad school. Not the most practical person. Most engineers tend to the practical, they want to do something with the math.

  87. @J.Ross
    OT Mexico has agreed to disband the "caravan" well before the border but will give humanitarian visas to the worst cases.
    https://twitter.com/aflores/status/980973431180156929?s=09

    Replies: @J.Ross, @David, @Forbes, @Alfa158

    I read in El Heraldo (Tegucigalpa) that about 131 Hondurans begin the trek through Mexico to the US each day. So this “caravan” represents a little over a week’s supply.

  88. Anonymous[196] • Disclaimer says:

    Per a C-SPAN Booknotes interview, Charles Murray confessed that he failed a math class while in graduate school even though he studied and studied (he’s the son of school teachers). Dude studied history and sociology. He ain’t exactly Norman Einstein.

  89. @Moses

    I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy...
     
    That's the stop word for me. Nothing of value can come out of this person's mouth.

    Replies: @Realist, @TheJester, @Olorin, @anonymous, @Derp

    On understanding the human experience …

    My son, an engineering major, took a course at the university on marriage and family life. He told me, “Dad, it’s an opinion course. I’ve got an opinion … guaranteed ‘A’.”

    He got a “D”. I guess the professor didn’t like his opinion.

    That seems to be the problem with the “soft sciences”. The greater part of their official dogmas appears to be based on opinion, especially if the consensus is that the categories they deal with are relative and arbitrary social constructs, i.e. race, IQ, gender, sexual orientation … which are kind, politically correct ways of saying they don’t exist.

    If they do not exist, why do the same people spend so much time behaving as if they did, i.e. affirmative action, disparate gap resolutions, women’s studies, black studies, gender studies? They have nothing to study. It also stretches their credibility to declare that evil, invisible forces in the ether such as “white privilege” can account for the consistent differences between peoples, cultures, and genders that they cannot otherwise explain.

    Then, the howling starts when geneticists in the “hard sciences” start mapping these consistent differences to observable genetic traits as testable, verifiable predictions. The mappings prove, to the social scientists anyway, that evil, invisible forces are again at work, and they need to be manically resisted.

    Maybe this is why we call them “soft sciences” … as soft as memory foam. Regardless of the weight of contrary testable and verifiable scientific evidence put on them, they immediately bounce back to their original positions.

    Perhaps a better name for them is the “shamanic sciences”. And, to be consistent, the people at Harvard and other universities who construct, publish, and teach their dogmas should be called “shamans” … believers in the existence of invisible, malevolent forces plaguing humankind. Given the right sinecures, they can keep them at bay.

    “Shamanism is a practice that involves a practitioner reaching altered states of consciousness in order to perceive and interact with a spirit world and channel these transcendental energies into this world.

    A shaman is someone who is regarded as having access to, and influence in, the world of benevolent and malevolent spirits, who typically enters into a trance state during a ritual, and practices divination and healing.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism

    • Replies: @Forbes
    @TheJester

    "White privilege" is one of those phrases to be added to Orwell's Newspeak dictionary as a phrase that actually means an opposite. White privilege is the privilege of deferring to every other race/ethnicity in any option, choice, or selection process. It's the privilege of standing at the end of the line, in perpetuity. This privilege is the reward for the initiative, motivation, and diligence to have gone forth and explored, conquered, developed, created, invented and built the modern, advanced world, and shared it with mankind.

  90. @Stephen Paul Foster
    “Racism” should be an automatic libelous offense if made by a private citizen, an impeachable act with the loss of government pension if made by a public official. Punishment falls on the accuser unless the charge could be substantiated and confirmed by empirically verifiable evidence based on a single, legally promulgated definition of “racism” with clear, operational terms.

    For more, see: http://fosterspeak.blogspot.com/2017/07/against-anti-racism-and-hemeneutics-of.html

    Replies: @schnellandine, @ben tillman

    So you’re going to legislate discourse into honesty. I’m sure nothing would backfire there. What next for the great programmer of men–price controls?

    Because humans find myriad ways around constraints, the result of your clay molding attempt would be increased dishonesty and smearing, in an even cloudier intellectual sphere.

    As a smart guy wrote correctly long ago, even defamation tort law is unethical, with the result being increased weight given defamatory statements. If defamation not discouraged unnaturally, the noise ambience protects naturally. We’re seeing it now with “racist”, an epithet running out of fuel each time used, and a reliable speedy indicator of who’s a blackguard. These people are self-identifying as jackals, and you want to make that illegal?

  91. Anonymous [AKA "I just found out how high is up"] says:

    Saying she has a “terrible memory for facts” is bragging that she’s an innovative blue-sky thinker, a philosopher queen superior to you pedantic plodders in historical archives and chemistry labs.

    • Agree: schnellandine
  92. “the possibility of genetic differences among races”: she’s a cretin.

  93. @Yan Shen
    @attilathehen

    And were you also aware that our good friend John Derbyshire married someone Chinese? Commenter AnotherDad seems to be privy to all of the most fascinating details, as evidenced his uh EL James style descriptions of the ins and outs of their relationship...

    Replies: @Mishra, @AnotherDad

    And were you also aware that our good friend John Derbyshire married someone Chinese? Commenter AnotherDad seems to be privy to all of the most fascinating details, as evidenced his uh EL James style descriptions of the ins and outs of their relationship…

    Huh?

    I don’t know the Derbyshires nor am privy to any details of their relationship–other than what Derb mentions in his columns or podcasts (which i probably get to a half or a third of). (I suppose i should send Derb a few bucks when i’m getting my Sailer contribution together.)

    I’ve just pointed out the weird “Yan Shen” obsession with Derbyshire, where you can hardly hold back in any extended comment of more than a few paragraphs without name checking Derb as somehow obsessed with blacks. Heck, Ron Unz–very generously–gave you a column and … sure enough … it was too tough to for you to get through it without the mandatory Derb shot at the end. I had to laugh. You’d gone on and on and on, and then at the end … you just couldn’t help yourself. (Yes, he’s banging a Chinese gal–get over it already!)

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    @AnotherDad

    Well your uh fascinating EL James style descriptions did seem to suggest to the contrary. I mean I certainly don't have much a clue regarding the exact ins and outs of such matters as pertaining to the Derb.

    I'm glad you got a chuckle from reading that part of my article. It was meant to be a bit of tongue-in-cheek ribbing of our good friend Mr. Derbyshire! I myself laughed as well when composing that part, along with my similarly good natured dig at our friend Whiskey.

    You meet all sorts of fascinating white nationalist types on this site, many of whom are quite unaware of just how out of touch they are with mainstream norms. So one can't fault me too much for having a little bit of fun every now and then... ;)

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @Yan Shen
    @AnotherDad


    (Yes, he’s banging a Chinese gal–get over it already!)
     
    Hahaha. When have I ever expressed an interest in Derbyshire's personal life? Or for that matter anyone else's personal life? In fact, I had no idea Derbyshire was married to someone Chinese before I encountered one of atillathehens' numerous online harangues of our poor friend the Derb, at which point IIRC I defended him by pointing out that maybe people shouldn't obsess over the personal lives of others. On the other hand, his fascinating fascination with blacks surely should be considered fair game for comedic analyses.

    Similarly, I'm pretty sure I learned about Charles Murray's first Thai wife on some white nationalist site somewhere, maybe iSteve back in the day! Now if I had a dollar for every time some white nationalist type reflexively played the AnotherDad/Johnny Smoggins card, I'd probably be wealthy enough to start up my own foundation and fund various writers as well...

    Like I said, you certainly do meet all sorts of fascinating characters in the white nationalist/alt-right blogosphere... ;)

    , @Mishra
    @AnotherDad


    (I suppose i should send Derb a few bucks when i’m getting my Sailer contribution together.)
     
    Well, I love Steve S like a brother but the Derb is sickly and living in abject penury in a one-room shack with a leaky roof in Nassau County while Steve lives in a palatial mansion in Pasadena and drives a Maserati.

    I might have the details slightly wrong, but still..

  94. @J.Ross
    OT Who could have foreseen a massive uptick in anti-Semitism following unrestrained Muslim immigration? Clearly these youths are being radicalized by Russian hackers on social media.
    Notice the last quoted bit.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-struggles-with-an-unfamiliar-form-of-anti-semitism-1522584002

    Solomon Michalski loved going to his new school on a leafy Berlin street because it was vibrant and diverse, with most students from migrant families. But when the teenage grandson of Holocaust survivors let it slip that he was Jewish, former friends started hissing insults at him in class, he says. Last year some of them brandishing what looked like a gun took him aside and said they would execute him.
    It was no isolated occurrence. The police registered 1,453 anti-Semitic incidents in Germany last year, more than in five of the previous seven years.
    German police attribute more than 90% of cases nationwide to far-right offenders. But Jewish activists and victim representatives say the data are misleading because police automatically label any incident where the perpetrators aren’t known as coming from the far right.
     

    Replies: @Pericles, @ThirdWorldSteveReader, @Oswald Spengler

    Let me guess, the far right Aryan power was named Mohamed Ahmed?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @ThirdWorldSteveReader

    We'll never know. Sure is funny how, on the one hand, protecting Jews is important enough to justify censorship and gangstalking, but on the other hand, hey, we don't want to lose our minds (or prosecute a Muslim) over this.

  95. @Daniel Williams

    The age-old racist notion is that white people are more intelligent than black people, something that has been revived by Charles Murray ...
     
    "Revived"? When did anyone not think that?

    Replies: @JimB

    The notion may be age-old, but the word racist was invented by people with their own supremicist political agenda in the 20th Century.

  96. @Realist

    I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy....
     
    I got my??????
    How about:
    I received my....
    I earned my....
    I was awarded my....

    Replies: @Neuday, @Forbes

    Don’t you understand? She has a Master’s Degree, therefore she has a “fairly high IQ”. It’s just that niche disciplines like math, vocabulary and English composition make her feel like not eating for an hour. IQ isn’t about general intelligence, bigot.

    • Replies: @Realist
    @Neuday

    Got it.

  97. The 19th century Italian politician, the white, male, Count Cavour, was obviously a pretty intelligent guy. I doubt if he needed any kind of a test to be biased in his favor be it IQ, or the hitherto unknown, but hopelessly biased, IA test you have so graciously made us aware of.

    Perhaps, like Ms Tourneau, you are one of those people who got a perfect 100 on your IQ test?

  98. Listen lady, instead of telling us how smart you are, how’s about saying something smart?

  99. @Anonym
    @syonredux

    University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). If you are a humanities major without math aptitude, it would be practically impossible I would think.

    Basic statistics is easy for people with math aptitude, but a vast number of people struggle with the concept that "group X on average have a higher IQ than group Y" is not disproven by the existence of an individual in group Y with a higher IQ than group X. Substitute anything for IQ, same basic point.

    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it's having people who understand math run the country.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Yan Shen, @Twinkie, @Lin, @for-the-record, @AnotherDad, @J1234, @Pat Boyle, @Bill, @Hans Tholstrup

    I’m definitely on-side with the idea that we suffer from having a verbally oriented “elite”, that clearly doesn’t think about things–model ideas–mathematically, and at least in terms of public discourse seems to be math-averse or math-incompetent.

    As I’ve pointed out if you have any trait in which individuals differ–not fixed like ten fingers, ten toes– then “population groups” must differ as well. Trivially or profoundly but there’s no way they can continually be “equal” as individuals are being born and dying off. (Balancing selection could even be going on but there’s no reason to believe it will be the same if different groups.) This is “just math”.

    Another example, is the “not enough time” or “selection has stopped” idea that must exist for the “left creationism”–we’re all just humans!–to work. This makes no logical sense–selection doesn’t stop. And even really small selective effects will have big results over a bunch of–say 40–generations. But that’s a math sanity test.

    However, i don’t think the “math problem”–or more accurately, the “verbal thinkers” problem–is really the core issue.

    Basically we have a religion–human “equality”, i.e. human non-diversity. This religion serves some powerful interests–the super-state, Jewish ethnic interests, globo-capitalism, convert-the-world Christianity. Along with individual interests in signaling virtue. Mostly, believers just believe. Inability to think or model anything mathematically doesn’t really come into play. Most of these folks absolutely do not want to do so.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    @AnotherDad

    Basically we have a religion–human “equality”, i.e. human non-diversity. This religion serves some powerful interests–the super-state, Jewish ethnic interests, globo-capitalism, convert-the-world Christianity. Along with individual interests in signaling virtue. Mostly, believers just believe. Inability to think or model anything mathematically doesn’t really come into play. Most of these folks absolutely do not want to do so.

    I do agree with you. I know numerate white people who are religiously PC. I think they are just natural herd followers.

  100. @Barnard
    Does she disclose her IQ anywhere in this article? The reader may start to get the impression it isn't as high as she claims.

    Replies: @res, @AndrewR, @Pat Boyle, @Anonymous

    “Fairly high” is one of those phrases that can have very different meanings coming from different people.

  101. @Yan Shen
    @Anonym

    http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2007/10/bounded-cognition.html


    Sometimes, people are just avoiding more cumbersome modes of expression -- "Xs are P-er than Ys" instead of (say) "The mean P measurement in a sample of Xs was greater than the mean P measurement in a sample of Ys, by an amount that would arise by chance fewer than once in 20 trials, assuming that the two samples were drawn from a single population in which P is normally distributed". But I submit that even most intellectuals don't really know how to think about the evaluation and comparison of distributions -- not even simple univariate gaussian distributions, much less more complex situations. And many people who do sort of understand this, at some level, generally fall back on thinking (as well as talking) about properties of group prototypes rather than properties of distributions of individual characteristics.
     
    Do you think the kinds of people who freaked out over James Damore's memo generally tended to be statistically ignorant or just obnoxious ideologues? Now obviously not everyone at Google works in what would be considered a "technical" role, but it's hard to imagine any engineer or data scientist or product analyst or the likes not actually knowing basic statistics at that company. Google seems too self selected for that to be the case. I suspect the issue is in part a lack of statistical acumen among the general population, but probably also in large part just the result of ideological biases and people believing whatever they want.

    Interesting comment about the Chinese. I wonder if the reason why East Asians in general tend to be far less PC than other ethnic groups is in part because of the skew towards mathematical reasoning...

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    Interesting comment about the Chinese. I wonder if the reason why East Asians in general tend to be far less PC than other ethnic groups is in part because of the skew towards mathematical reasoning…

    I think it’s definitely a factor, but i’d guess it’s more like a third order factor.

    The Chinese in fact have *more* compliant personality traits than white people. (Interestingly while their IQ skew–more mathematical/spatial–is more “male” relative to whites, their personality package–more compliant, cooperative–is more “female” relative to whites.) Whites are actually more independent, less inclined to get with the program.

    The Chinese have certainly complied with really stupid ideology in the past–the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution. They just have a much saner ideology now. (Their insane elite ideologies just killed millions of Chinese, our elite ideology is designed to kill off white people in total.)

    My take–SWAG–for why the Chinese are so much saner:
    — lower affective empathy
    — lack of Christian love-thy-neighbor universalism
    — less exposure to Jewish propaganda

    (I think *not* being fluent in English and not continuously exposed to Hollywood and other American media right now, improves the survival probability of any nation.)

    Math skew of IQ would rank behind all those as a casual factor in Chinese sanity.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    @AnotherDad


    Their insane elite ideologies just killed millions of Chinese, our elite ideology is designed to kill off white people in total.
     
    Well I could only shake my head at this comment of yours. Let me reiterate the point that I made in that post where Steve Sailer seemingly drew an analogy between the sub-Saharan African population wave about to inundate the rest of the world and the German blitzkriegs of World War 2. These kinds of rhetorical insanities really just hurt the white nationalist/alt-right camp and deprive the movement of any broader acceptance.

    Now certainly reasonable people can and should be concerned about various demographics trends worldwide over the coming decades, particularly in light of the rather insane immigration policies of various Western countries. But this idea that white people are being genocided out of existence is just flat out silly. Now I'm no uh expert on actual genocides, but the most obvious recent example that might come to mind for many seemed to result in some large fraction of the population under consideration actually being killed off over a relatively short timespan, at least according to high level Wikipedia numbers.

    Of the estimated 8.8 million Jews living in Europe at the beginning of World War II, the majority of whom were Ashkenazi, about 6 million – more than two-thirds – were systematically murdered in the Holocaust.

     

    I don't see any large scale murder of American or European whites across the world today by various minority immigrant groups. Even the Muslim and African immigrants who have significantly increased various sorts of crime in countries like Sweden or the likes, really only affect a tiny percentage of the native white population.

    By and large, the expected decline of white Americans/Europeans is much more relative than absolute.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/04/03/what-america-will-look-like-in-2050-less-christian-less-white-more-gray/?utm_term=.25a8c690c6ab

    If we take those numbers at face value, absolute numbers of white Americans will have barely declined by 2035-2040. The biggest changes likely to occur over next few decades will be the much higher numbers of Hispanic Americans and to a lesser extent Asian Americans. I can't comment on the Hispanic American population, but I think we can safely say that Asian Americans by and large are hardly a burden of any kind upon American society!

    Even if whites worldwide decline somewhat in absolute numbers the next 20-30 years, it's hardly a unique phenomenon, given that the low TFRs in various East Asian countries portend similar sorts of population decreases. I mean we're always hearing in the American media about how uh Japan needs to start embracing immigration since by 2050 there will barely be any Japanese left in existence or something like that...

    Given the obvious fact that ethnic groups in the US still self-segregate to a non-trivial extent and the fact that increasing numbers of certain ethnic groups such as Asian Americans has actually decreased their rates of intermarriage over the past couple of decades in this country, it's also hard to believe that whites in America will somehow be miscegenated out of existence. Most likely some minority of couples in the country will be interracial, but the majority of people will still be married to someone of their own race.

    Pew numbers suggest that in 2015 for instance about 1/6 of newlyweds were interracial and about 10% of the married couples overall in this country were interracial. The most common interracial grouping is Hispanic-white given the large numbers of each group. Something like 42% of all interracial newlyweds in 2015 happened to belong to the Hispanic-white category. Given that Hispanics have varying levels of European admixture and are obviously phenotypically closer to Europeans than blacks or East Asians, I would argue this also probably limits the extent to which the look of the country might change from interracial mixing.

    Furthermore, whites currently are and will continue to be for the foreseeable future over-represented in the arenas of business, media, politics, which I argue are the real levels of power. (Now some here might complain that these are in fact {fellow whites} or the likes, but alas I digress...) As I pointed out in my article on the math/verbal split, the general pattern for instance at tech companies in the Bay Area is that Asians are over-represented overall and especially in technical roles relative to whites, but whites are still over-indexed at the executive levels relative to their population share. Since you seem to be rather concerned about whites retaining power in this country, surely this fact should be of significant comfort to you.

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-e1zwb0a9hqY/Ujjv4fp2bGI/AAAAAAAAE6g/itInWUyIdqU/s400/sfdotmap.jpg

    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/

    Now as I've uh been saying, one of the most fascinating things about this site is being able to encounter a somewhat fringe group of white nationalist/quasi-white nationalist types, some of whom seem rather out of touch with the fact that they lie outside of the cultural mainstream, given the various sorts of pollyannish proposals and rhetorical insanities one often encounters here. Perhaps one of these days I'll write up a version of the Talk aimed at imparting some semblance of sense into such individuals. With any luck, maybe it'll even get published somewhere...
    , @Lin
    @AnotherDad

    "My take–SWAG–for why the Chinese are so much saner:
    – lower affective empathy
    – lack of Christian love-thy-neighbor universalism
    – less exposure to Jewish propaganda
    .."

    I disagree. I once posted the followings to a article that labelled the Chinese economy as 'Neo-liberal' at a 'leftist' site and it was deleted as trolling attempt. I later asked why and I didn't get a reply:
    ............
    " I disagree with labelling like 'neoliberalism'

    I would call it 'Comm-fucism'. Confucius, as my former 2ndary school history teacher said, was a 'primitive communist' and he had vision of quasi-socialist welfare state. (BTW, I'm no 'confucist'. Confucius told people not to be too religious and I agree)Here's the text of his--

    礼运大同篇--The way of Harmony

    大道之行也,天下为公-----When the Great Way is practiced, the world is for the public.

    选贤与能----Those with virtue and those with ability are chosen and used.

    讲信修睦---- People value trustworthiness and cultivate harmony with each other.
    故人不独亲其亲,不独子其子----- Thus people do not treat only their parents like parents, nor do people treat only their sons like sons.

    使老有所终,壮 有所用,幼有所长---- That makes the aged have the appropriate last years, those in their prime have the appropriate employment, and the young have the appropriate growth and development.

    鳏寡孤独废疾者,皆有所养---- Elderly men with no spouses, widows, orphans, elderly people without children or grandchildren, the handicapped, the ill – all are provided for.

    男有分,女有归---- Males have their station; females, their places to belong to.

    货恶其弃於地也,不必藏於己----- Money/Goods are thrown on the ground and thus
    despised; it is not necessary to store money on one’s body.

    力恶其不出於身也,不必为已---Labor is despised if it does not come from oneself, and it does not have to be on behalf of oneself.

    是故谋闭而不兴,盗窃乱贼而不作---Therefore people don’t engage in intrigue or trickery, nor do they engage in robbery, theft, and rebellion.

    故外户而不闭---Thus, though people leave their houses they don’t close their doors.

    是谓大同--- This is called the “Great Together” (or 'Unity', 'Harmony')..."

    , @ogunsiron
    @AnotherDad


    (I think *not* being fluent in English and not continuously exposed to Hollywood and other American media right now, improves the survival probability of any nation.)
     
    That and mostly attending their own university is what keeps the Japanese elite Japanese in outlook.
  102. @AnotherDad
    @Yan Shen


    And were you also aware that our good friend John Derbyshire married someone Chinese? Commenter AnotherDad seems to be privy to all of the most fascinating details, as evidenced his uh EL James style descriptions of the ins and outs of their relationship…
     
    Huh?

    I don't know the Derbyshires nor am privy to any details of their relationship--other than what Derb mentions in his columns or podcasts (which i probably get to a half or a third of). (I suppose i should send Derb a few bucks when i'm getting my Sailer contribution together.)

    I've just pointed out the weird "Yan Shen" obsession with Derbyshire, where you can hardly hold back in any extended comment of more than a few paragraphs without name checking Derb as somehow obsessed with blacks. Heck, Ron Unz--very generously--gave you a column and ... sure enough ... it was too tough to for you to get through it without the mandatory Derb shot at the end. I had to laugh. You'd gone on and on and on, and then at the end ... you just couldn't help yourself. (Yes, he's banging a Chinese gal--get over it already!)

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @Yan Shen, @Mishra

    Well your uh fascinating EL James style descriptions did seem to suggest to the contrary. I mean I certainly don’t have much a clue regarding the exact ins and outs of such matters as pertaining to the Derb.

    I’m glad you got a chuckle from reading that part of my article. It was meant to be a bit of tongue-in-cheek ribbing of our good friend Mr. Derbyshire! I myself laughed as well when composing that part, along with my similarly good natured dig at our friend Whiskey.

    You meet all sorts of fascinating white nationalist types on this site, many of whom are quite unaware of just how out of touch they are with mainstream norms. So one can’t fault me too much for having a little bit of fun every now and then… 😉

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Yan Shen


    are quite unaware of just how out of touch they are with mainstream norms
     
    Is that how "normie" got to be the lowest slur?
    And am I obsessed with sharks or bears if I want to be eaten by neither?
  103. res says:
    @Twinkie
    @Anonym


    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it’s having people who understand math run the country.
     
    I don't know whether this is true. I don't think the Party is all that meritocratic.

    Replies: @Daniel Williams, @Yan Shen, @res

    I’d be interested in seeing an analysis of that.

    My sense is that we can make an analogy between the US and Chinese systems being similarly meritocratic (or not). One big difference is that China seems to intentionally draw from a pool of people with a technical background while the US draws from a pool of lawyers (and not the patent kind). Even if the further selection process is not meritocratic that initial selection will have an effect on the results.

    Both groups (and approaches) have their strengths and weaknesses, but I think Anonym’s basic point is sound. I think the rise of the professional politician and the route into that group being seen almost exclusively as law is a terrible trend for this country. Having engineers only running the country would be different, but probably just as bad.

    A related question, how do public conversations about societal choices in China compare? I talked about leaders above, but journalists (is there a good equivalent in China?) driving conversations (either on their own or as proxies) while being innumerate seems like an equally big problem.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @res

    All our pols aren't lawyers, but too many are, and too many of the "elite" ones, for sure.

    , @J.Ross
    @res

    There's definitely a good equivalent, Chinese and American journalists are normally distinguishable only by what establishment organ they work at.
    China's English-language media has a pseudo-discussion program vaguely modelled after Crossfire or Hardball. It's much clumsier than our political media used to be, but every single "discussion" consists of surrounding what the Party wants with verbal tokens of reasonableness (kind of like uh a frequent commenter here), "when you think about it, it's only fair that Vietnam return to Chinese rule etc.."
    There is a certain tolerance in China for dumb human interest stories that look like they will keep well away from politics. On one a journalist reported the discovery of a new mushroom which someone eventually told her was actually a discarded sex toy.

    Replies: @Lin

  104. @Reg Cæsar
    @Malcolm X-Lax


    Her twitter feed is completely devoid of circumspection or moderation
     
    Since when are circumspection and moderation the point of Twitter?

    "Completely devoid" rhymes with "completely destroyed", and is equally redundant.

    Replies: @Pericles, @Malcolm X-Lax

    LOL. It was more an over-all impression of a lack of variation in her political outlook. But, sure, good point. P.S. I like to think of my use of “completely devoid” as a “very unique” characteristic of my writing style.

  105. @TheJester
    @Moses

    On understanding the human experience ...

    My son, an engineering major, took a course at the university on marriage and family life. He told me, "Dad, it's an opinion course. I've got an opinion ... guaranteed 'A'."

    He got a "D". I guess the professor didn't like his opinion.

    That seems to be the problem with the "soft sciences". The greater part of their official dogmas appears to be based on opinion, especially if the consensus is that the categories they deal with are relative and arbitrary social constructs, i.e. race, IQ, gender, sexual orientation ... which are kind, politically correct ways of saying they don't exist.

    If they do not exist, why do the same people spend so much time behaving as if they did, i.e. affirmative action, disparate gap resolutions, women's studies, black studies, gender studies? They have nothing to study. It also stretches their credibility to declare that evil, invisible forces in the ether such as "white privilege" can account for the consistent differences between peoples, cultures, and genders that they cannot otherwise explain.

    Then, the howling starts when geneticists in the "hard sciences" start mapping these consistent differences to observable genetic traits as testable, verifiable predictions. The mappings prove, to the social scientists anyway, that evil, invisible forces are again at work, and they need to be manically resisted.

    Maybe this is why we call them "soft sciences" ... as soft as memory foam. Regardless of the weight of contrary testable and verifiable scientific evidence put on them, they immediately bounce back to their original positions.

    Perhaps a better name for them is the "shamanic sciences". And, to be consistent, the people at Harvard and other universities who construct, publish, and teach their dogmas should be called "shamans" ... believers in the existence of invisible, malevolent forces plaguing humankind. Given the right sinecures, they can keep them at bay.


    "Shamanism is a practice that involves a practitioner reaching altered states of consciousness in order to perceive and interact with a spirit world and channel these transcendental energies into this world.

    A shaman is someone who is regarded as having access to, and influence in, the world of benevolent and malevolent spirits, who typically enters into a trance state during a ritual, and practices divination and healing."

     
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism

    Replies: @Forbes

    “White privilege” is one of those phrases to be added to Orwell’s Newspeak dictionary as a phrase that actually means an opposite. White privilege is the privilege of deferring to every other race/ethnicity in any option, choice, or selection process. It’s the privilege of standing at the end of the line, in perpetuity. This privilege is the reward for the initiative, motivation, and diligence to have gone forth and explored, conquered, developed, created, invented and built the modern, advanced world, and shared it with mankind.

  106. @Barnard
    @Ron Unz

    She is writing for the people who literally got ill before taking stats. They find her arguments, if you can call them that, authoritative. Having your emotions validated is far more important than science to them.

    Replies: @Mishra, @Forbes, @ogunsiron

    Having your emotions validated is far more important than science to them.

    While I agree with your sentiment and cynicism–that is an accurate observation. Our world–in life and in education–is very much about having emotions validated. The feminism that has taken over the culture is embodied in that statement. It may be (probably is) misguided, but saying so makes it no less real.

  107. @J.Ross
    OT Mexico has agreed to disband the "caravan" well before the border but will give humanitarian visas to the worst cases.
    https://twitter.com/aflores/status/980973431180156929?s=09

    Replies: @J.Ross, @David, @Forbes, @Alfa158

    Presumably that means humanitarian visas to stay in Mexico, because (last I checked) Mexico cannot give visas to the US…

    So they let them stay in Mexico just long enough to rest, and then continue the trip to the US when the media spotlight is focused elsewhere…

  108. @Crawfurdmuir
    @schnellandine

    Anyone accusing someone else of being a "racist" should be presumed a charlatan until proven otherwise.

    Accusations of racism are most often efforts by the accuser to defame his opponent in debate, so as to avoid the necessity of rebutting his arguments using facts and logic. It's the most frequently encountered variety of "poisoning the wells."

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Forbes

    Well, name-calling and ad hominem aren’t arguments, so at best, anyone using that approach should be ignored.

  109. @anonymous
    @Veracitor

    nauseated

    It was the coursework in marriage and family therapy that may have helped get her to nauseous.

    Replies: @Veracitor

    Call her up, dude, and ask her “what do you call that feeling, you know, like you’re about to throw up, starts with an ‘n’?”

    Betcha a nickel she says “nauseous.”

    When I’m mocking a woman who claims to “have a fairly high IQ,” I’m not going to put an unabridged dictionary in her mouth– unless I’m crediting her with Claudia Rankine- (or John McWhorter-) style intellectual word salad, in which case she will use three-dollar words freely but incorrectly.

  110. @Anon
    A WASP moves to New York, and the whole office is Jewish, so she starts dating Jews...

    I am tired of being a Jewish man's rebellion

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2018/03/29/i-am-tired-of-being-a-jewish-mans-

    After we broke up, both men went on to find serious partners who were, in fact, Jewish.... why did they say it didn’t matter and then decide it did — and find partners who fit the description they said they weren’t actually looking for?

    I guess dating me had been their last act of defiance against cultural or familial expectations before finding someone who warranted their parents’ approval — perhaps the equivalent of a woman dating a motorcycle-driving, leather-jacket wearing “bad boy” before settling down with a banker....
     

    Replies: @Anonym, @Forbes

    Why would a woman date men from her office–unless she wanted to become the office carousel to be ridden by many? And then pouring out her naivety in a newspaper… Does she also walk around with a target on her back??

  111. @J.Ross
    OT Mexico has agreed to disband the "caravan" well before the border but will give humanitarian visas to the worst cases.
    https://twitter.com/aflores/status/980973431180156929?s=09

    Replies: @J.Ross, @David, @Forbes, @Alfa158

    Trump has now commented on the caravans and said they are another reason for building the wall. I think the Mexican government has realized this is helping with Trump’s re-election so they are now acting to suppress it, or at least scatter the participants so the optics aren’t so clear.
    If Republicans weren’t The Stupid Party they would be covertly subsidizing activities like this caravan and the Hogg rallies. What better way to rally their base than an overt invasion of the US, or mass political rallies featuring a crazed looking teenager with a weird looking head, and a bald Puerto Rican lesbian demanding the Constitution be dropped into a shredder.

    • Replies: @Anonym
    @Alfa158

    I don't know about subsidizing such things - Soros will probably do it for free - but agree on the optics. Hogg looks like some a cross between a young Richard Nixon and Peter North, only with a somewhat even weaker jaw. The politics of the Western world have become so anti-White that even though he says all the right things, I think even the left struggles to like him.

    And the sight of that crisis acting lesbian with her veins popping out just makes me wish for her to be taken away to the Lublanka.

    I question Trump's recent polling. I think it is being allowed to go high, much like a product in a supermarket before "discount", so that they can yank the numbers before the election for maximum effect.

  112. @Realist

    I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy....
     
    I got my??????
    How about:
    I received my....
    I earned my....
    I was awarded my....

    Replies: @Neuday, @Forbes

    She writes exactly as she speaks, without thinking–mental incontinence, a verbal diarrhea.

    • Agree: Realist
  113. @Realist
    @Tiny Duck


    IA tests are biased in Cavour of whites males
     
    Little Dick is drinking again.

    Replies: @Forbes

    If only that was the excuse.

    • Replies: @Realist
    @Forbes

    You mean he is that stupid....sober?

  114. The age-old racist notion is that white yellow people are more intelligent than black people

    FIFH.

  115. @AnotherDad
    @Yan Shen


    Interesting comment about the Chinese. I wonder if the reason why East Asians in general tend to be far less PC than other ethnic groups is in part because of the skew towards mathematical reasoning…
     
    I think it's definitely a factor, but i'd guess it's more like a third order factor.

    The Chinese in fact have *more* compliant personality traits than white people. (Interestingly while their IQ skew--more mathematical/spatial--is more "male" relative to whites, their personality package--more compliant, cooperative--is more "female" relative to whites.) Whites are actually more independent, less inclined to get with the program.

    The Chinese have certainly complied with really stupid ideology in the past--the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution. They just have a much saner ideology now. (Their insane elite ideologies just killed millions of Chinese, our elite ideology is designed to kill off white people in total.)

    My take--SWAG--for why the Chinese are so much saner:
    -- lower affective empathy
    -- lack of Christian love-thy-neighbor universalism
    -- less exposure to Jewish propaganda

    (I think *not* being fluent in English and not continuously exposed to Hollywood and other American media right now, improves the survival probability of any nation.)

    Math skew of IQ would rank behind all those as a casual factor in Chinese sanity.

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @Lin, @ogunsiron

    Their insane elite ideologies just killed millions of Chinese, our elite ideology is designed to kill off white people in total.

    Well I could only shake my head at this comment of yours. Let me reiterate the point that I made in that post where Steve Sailer seemingly drew an analogy between the sub-Saharan African population wave about to inundate the rest of the world and the German blitzkriegs of World War 2. These kinds of rhetorical insanities really just hurt the white nationalist/alt-right camp and deprive the movement of any broader acceptance.

    Now certainly reasonable people can and should be concerned about various demographics trends worldwide over the coming decades, particularly in light of the rather insane immigration policies of various Western countries. But this idea that white people are being genocided out of existence is just flat out silly. Now I’m no uh expert on actual genocides, but the most obvious recent example that might come to mind for many seemed to result in some large fraction of the population under consideration actually being killed off over a relatively short timespan, at least according to high level Wikipedia numbers.

    Of the estimated 8.8 million Jews living in Europe at the beginning of World War II, the majority of whom were Ashkenazi, about 6 million – more than two-thirds – were systematically murdered in the Holocaust.

    I don’t see any large scale murder of American or European whites across the world today by various minority immigrant groups. Even the Muslim and African immigrants who have significantly increased various sorts of crime in countries like Sweden or the likes, really only affect a tiny percentage of the native white population.

    By and large, the expected decline of white Americans/Europeans is much more relative than absolute.

    [MORE]

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/04/03/what-america-will-look-like-in-2050-less-christian-less-white-more-gray/?utm_term=.25a8c690c6ab

    If we take those numbers at face value, absolute numbers of white Americans will have barely declined by 2035-2040. The biggest changes likely to occur over next few decades will be the much higher numbers of Hispanic Americans and to a lesser extent Asian Americans. I can’t comment on the Hispanic American population, but I think we can safely say that Asian Americans by and large are hardly a burden of any kind upon American society!

    Even if whites worldwide decline somewhat in absolute numbers the next 20-30 years, it’s hardly a unique phenomenon, given that the low TFRs in various East Asian countries portend similar sorts of population decreases. I mean we’re always hearing in the American media about how uh Japan needs to start embracing immigration since by 2050 there will barely be any Japanese left in existence or something like that…

    Given the obvious fact that ethnic groups in the US still self-segregate to a non-trivial extent and the fact that increasing numbers of certain ethnic groups such as Asian Americans has actually decreased their rates of intermarriage over the past couple of decades in this country, it’s also hard to believe that whites in America will somehow be miscegenated out of existence. Most likely some minority of couples in the country will be interracial, but the majority of people will still be married to someone of their own race.

    Pew numbers suggest that in 2015 for instance about 1/6 of newlyweds were interracial and about 10% of the married couples overall in this country were interracial. The most common interracial grouping is Hispanic-white given the large numbers of each group. Something like 42% of all interracial newlyweds in 2015 happened to belong to the Hispanic-white category. Given that Hispanics have varying levels of European admixture and are obviously phenotypically closer to Europeans than blacks or East Asians, I would argue this also probably limits the extent to which the look of the country might change from interracial mixing.

    Furthermore, whites currently are and will continue to be for the foreseeable future over-represented in the arenas of business, media, politics, which I argue are the real levels of power. (Now some here might complain that these are in fact {fellow whites} or the likes, but alas I digress…) As I pointed out in my article on the math/verbal split, the general pattern for instance at tech companies in the Bay Area is that Asians are over-represented overall and especially in technical roles relative to whites, but whites are still over-indexed at the executive levels relative to their population share. Since you seem to be rather concerned about whites retaining power in this country, surely this fact should be of significant comfort to you.

    http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/05/18/1-trends-and-patterns-in-intermarriage/

    Now as I’ve uh been saying, one of the most fascinating things about this site is being able to encounter a somewhat fringe group of white nationalist/quasi-white nationalist types, some of whom seem rather out of touch with the fact that they lie outside of the cultural mainstream, given the various sorts of pollyannish proposals and rhetorical insanities one often encounters here. Perhaps one of these days I’ll write up a version of the Talk aimed at imparting some semblance of sense into such individuals. With any luck, maybe it’ll even get published somewhere…

  116. @Moses

    I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy...
     
    That's the stop word for me. Nothing of value can come out of this person's mouth.

    Replies: @Realist, @TheJester, @Olorin, @anonymous, @Derp

    Same here. Except I stopped at the seventh word.

    I trust she was as unsuccessful at that as at understanding any other form of science.

  117. @Barnard
    Does she disclose her IQ anywhere in this article? The reader may start to get the impression it isn't as high as she claims.

    Replies: @res, @AndrewR, @Pat Boyle, @Anonymous

    High IQ compared to whom? Special Ed students in Somalia?

    Educated people who can’t do basic statistics or remember basic scientific and historical facts may be able to accurately claim many things about themselves, but “I have a fairly high IQ” is probably not one of those things. “I am qualified to discuss complex scientific and statistical matters” is definitely not one of those things.

  118. @Anonym
    @syonredux

    University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). If you are a humanities major without math aptitude, it would be practically impossible I would think.

    Basic statistics is easy for people with math aptitude, but a vast number of people struggle with the concept that "group X on average have a higher IQ than group Y" is not disproven by the existence of an individual in group Y with a higher IQ than group X. Substitute anything for IQ, same basic point.

    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it's having people who understand math run the country.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Yan Shen, @Twinkie, @Lin, @for-the-record, @AnotherDad, @J1234, @Pat Boyle, @Bill, @Hans Tholstrup

    Basic statistics is easy for people with math aptitude, but a vast number of people struggle with the concept that “group X on average have a higher IQ than group Y” is not disproven by the existence of an individual in group Y with a higher IQ than group X. Substitute anything for IQ, same basic point.

    Very true. The non-emotionally loaded analogy I use is that if one state in the US is more prosperous than another state, it doesn’t mean that every person in the more prosperous state are wealthier than everyone in the less prosperous state. Very few people, if any, would have a hard time understanding this because most people they have a pretty realistic idea about the distribution of wealth (in a simple, non-political sense). The distribution of intelligence is less understood by uneducated people, maybe in part because it has a genetic component.

    Many blacks thought that the Obama administration proved that black people were smart enough to be president, which is in no way true. That’s taking the anecdotal and applying it to the general, like saying white people are strong because of Arnold Schwarzenegger. Of course, most people of any race aren’t smart enough to be president.

  119. @Barnard
    Does she disclose her IQ anywhere in this article? The reader may start to get the impression it isn't as high as she claims.

    Replies: @res, @AndrewR, @Pat Boyle, @Anonymous

    There is another possibility. When I got divorced I advertised on the web for girls. I like tall smart girls so I wanted applicants to be at least 5’7″ and have a doctorate.

    I met a girl with a doctorate who taught at Stanford. Alas it was an EdD not a PhD and she confessed that she never could do algebra. She thought it was particularly cruel to make kids learn such a subject. She was really bad at math.

    She often claimed to have an IQ of 160. I estimated her IQ to be about 125. But she wasn’t lying. Her math was so bad that she couldn’t grasp things like probability mass functions or interval scales. She actually thought she had a 160 IQ.

    That’s why last year when a woman won the Fields Medal, it was such a big story. Girls are bad at math.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Pat Boyle

    I certainly don't doubt that she wss bad at math, but could you give examples of her not understanding those concepts? One's ability to understand a concept depends on a lot of factors, as does one's ability to judge another person's ability to understand a given concept.

    Replies: @Pat Boyle

    , @The Wobbly Guy
    @Pat Boyle

    If somebody can't do algebra, their IQ is probably below 115.

    I teach at a mid-lower tier Junior College in Singapore (ranked abt 11 out of 16 institutions), and every student in the school can do algebra (even the Arts/Humanities students). Looking at the overall distribution, very few of the students in my school are even 1 std deviation above average.

    Yet they can all do algebra.

    Even accounting for the higher mean in Sg (106? thereabouts), 1 std deviation above is 106+15 = 121, and students of that caliber are usually found in either better schools or in the Integrated Programmes. Those who are 2 std deviations (136) are almost exclusive to Raffles Institution and Hwa Chong.

    Replies: @Pat Boyle, @res

  120. @AnotherDad
    @Anonym

    I'm definitely on-side with the idea that we suffer from having a verbally oriented "elite", that clearly doesn't think about things--model ideas--mathematically, and at least in terms of public discourse seems to be math-averse or math-incompetent.

    As I've pointed out if you have any trait in which individuals differ--not fixed like ten fingers, ten toes-- then "population groups" must differ as well. Trivially or profoundly but there's no way they can continually be "equal" as individuals are being born and dying off. (Balancing selection could even be going on but there's no reason to believe it will be the same if different groups.) This is "just math".

    Another example, is the "not enough time" or "selection has stopped" idea that must exist for the "left creationism"--we're all just humans!--to work. This makes no logical sense--selection doesn't stop. And even really small selective effects will have big results over a bunch of--say 40--generations. But that's a math sanity test.


    However, i don't think the "math problem"--or more accurately, the "verbal thinkers" problem--is really the core issue.

    Basically we have a religion--human "equality", i.e. human non-diversity. This religion serves some powerful interests--the super-state, Jewish ethnic interests, globo-capitalism, convert-the-world Christianity. Along with individual interests in signaling virtue. Mostly, believers just believe. Inability to think or model anything mathematically doesn't really come into play. Most of these folks absolutely do not want to do so.

    Replies: @Anonym

    Basically we have a religion–human “equality”, i.e. human non-diversity. This religion serves some powerful interests–the super-state, Jewish ethnic interests, globo-capitalism, convert-the-world Christianity. Along with individual interests in signaling virtue. Mostly, believers just believe. Inability to think or model anything mathematically doesn’t really come into play. Most of these folks absolutely do not want to do so.

    I do agree with you. I know numerate white people who are religiously PC. I think they are just natural herd followers.

  121. This is 1A ditz-head signalling. It has nothing to do with the topic it purports to be about.

    From the 1980s on one could observe in the Ed Biz and chattering classes in general a certain kind of woman who in earlier eras would go to college to find a husband.

    By the Age of Reagan, when the war on working class white families was well underway and the pocketed profits from 1940s-1970s industrialism were being rapidly offshored and replaced with Wall Street speculation as the grossest possible national product, this changed.

    Not on the woman’s end necessarily–biology being what it is–but on the institutions’.

    Women went to college, then grad school, then grad school maybe again and maybe still again, adding degrees and certifications and conferences and conventions to the CV, but never allowed to admit the old-fashioned desire to mate and spawn.

    Feminism forbade it…and so did her female bosses and competitors, who took the search for a mate into the workplace.

    As the Ed Biz and chattering classes became more powerful, ubiquitous, and feminized in the latter part of the 20th century, it became increasingly crucial for any woman out on her own to signal to the women who increasingly controlled her work paycheck (one of the very few paths open to the single woman wanting to spawn) that, oh no, she posed absolutely no threat to THEIR power or alliances or carefully curated circles of supporters.

    While they gathered to ingest comestibles and compare last night’s rides on the cock carousel and make fun of their temporary husbands or boyfriends or dates or male bosses or taxi driver. The equivalent of confession and communication for the ascendant secular goddess religion…and strategic intelligence-gathering on competitors.

    So women like our writer above signal as a ditz-head in expectation of agreement.

    Which she may well be, but I’m guessing she’s more like a genuinely not-stupid but not hugely smart woman never allowed or coached to navigate biological life honestly as right-fat-part-of-the-bell-curvian. Which means a woman who, in previous eras would have been a prime candidate for marriage and motherhood and male protection and social respect.

    My drafting the above two sentences was interrupted by a robo-call by something called (according to caller ID) the Women’s Cancer Fund.

    The robot initiated the call with a professional-sounding woman’s voice saying my first name in a rising tone. When I replied with a cold expletive (to trigger the robo-response), it replied in a laughing tone, “Getting ahold of you is harder than getting my husband to cook dinner!” Then five or six spasms of carefully vocal engineered laughter.

    Chicks tincupping us for donations to chick cancer funds (when men’s health problems are vastly underfunded, except maybe for recreational-boner problems), and insulting us to our faces while playing the ditz while expecting us to pay them for the loinal stir they expect by playing ditz-head and giggling. What pisses me off the worst is how many males will contribute to it.

    Anybody else recall this?:

    The sex-bias myth in medical research
    https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/96jun/cancer/kadar.htm

    • Replies: @anonymous
    @Olorin

    And what's with all these women and law school? Over fifty percent of the law school grads are chickie poohs who are now saddled with stratospheric debt, topped off by the fact that the number of lawyer jobs are dwindling. Why? Too many lawyers. Which is why so many of these babes wind up as "journalists."

    Replies: @Olorin

  122. @AnotherDad
    @Yan Shen


    And were you also aware that our good friend John Derbyshire married someone Chinese? Commenter AnotherDad seems to be privy to all of the most fascinating details, as evidenced his uh EL James style descriptions of the ins and outs of their relationship…
     
    Huh?

    I don't know the Derbyshires nor am privy to any details of their relationship--other than what Derb mentions in his columns or podcasts (which i probably get to a half or a third of). (I suppose i should send Derb a few bucks when i'm getting my Sailer contribution together.)

    I've just pointed out the weird "Yan Shen" obsession with Derbyshire, where you can hardly hold back in any extended comment of more than a few paragraphs without name checking Derb as somehow obsessed with blacks. Heck, Ron Unz--very generously--gave you a column and ... sure enough ... it was too tough to for you to get through it without the mandatory Derb shot at the end. I had to laugh. You'd gone on and on and on, and then at the end ... you just couldn't help yourself. (Yes, he's banging a Chinese gal--get over it already!)

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @Yan Shen, @Mishra

    (Yes, he’s banging a Chinese gal–get over it already!)

    Hahaha. When have I ever expressed an interest in Derbyshire’s personal life? Or for that matter anyone else’s personal life? In fact, I had no idea Derbyshire was married to someone Chinese before I encountered one of atillathehens’ numerous online harangues of our poor friend the Derb, at which point IIRC I defended him by pointing out that maybe people shouldn’t obsess over the personal lives of others. On the other hand, his fascinating fascination with blacks surely should be considered fair game for comedic analyses.

    Similarly, I’m pretty sure I learned about Charles Murray’s first Thai wife on some white nationalist site somewhere, maybe iSteve back in the day! Now if I had a dollar for every time some white nationalist type reflexively played the AnotherDad/Johnny Smoggins card, I’d probably be wealthy enough to start up my own foundation and fund various writers as well…

    Like I said, you certainly do meet all sorts of fascinating characters in the white nationalist/alt-right blogosphere… 😉

  123. @Flip
    Women personalize everything and then try to make it out as something universal.

    Replies: @Rosie, @Harry Baldwin

    Whiskey does that too, about women.

  124. @Neuday
    @Realist

    Don't you understand? She has a Master's Degree, therefore she has a "fairly high IQ". It's just that niche disciplines like math, vocabulary and English composition make her feel like not eating for an hour. IQ isn't about general intelligence, bigot.

    Replies: @Realist

    Got it.

  125. S J Gould in the March 29, 1984 issue of The New York Review of Books:

    I am hopeless at deductive sequencing…I never scored particularly well on so-called objective tests of intelligence because they stress logical reasoning…

    Because it explains so much, I love posting this quote.

  126. You sir are a heretic, and besides, my personal anecdote discounts your data.

    Did I tell you about my neighbor who lived to 96 who chain smoked 3-packs of unfiltered camels a day? I’m high IQ, and I think the surgeon-general is a racist.

    • Replies: @jim jones
    @Tulip

    Austria has no restrictions on cigarettes and the average lifespan is 82 years, longer than the USA

  127. @Alfa158
    @J.Ross

    Trump has now commented on the caravans and said they are another reason for building the wall. I think the Mexican government has realized this is helping with Trump's re-election so they are now acting to suppress it, or at least scatter the participants so the optics aren't so clear.
    If Republicans weren't The Stupid Party they would be covertly subsidizing activities like this caravan and the Hogg rallies. What better way to rally their base than an overt invasion of the US, or mass political rallies featuring a crazed looking teenager with a weird looking head, and a bald Puerto Rican lesbian demanding the Constitution be dropped into a shredder.

    Replies: @Anonym

    I don’t know about subsidizing such things – Soros will probably do it for free – but agree on the optics. Hogg looks like some a cross between a young Richard Nixon and Peter North, only with a somewhat even weaker jaw. The politics of the Western world have become so anti-White that even though he says all the right things, I think even the left struggles to like him.

    And the sight of that crisis acting lesbian with her veins popping out just makes me wish for her to be taken away to the Lublanka.

    I question Trump’s recent polling. I think it is being allowed to go high, much like a product in a supermarket before “discount”, so that they can yank the numbers before the election for maximum effect.

  128. @Lin
    @Anonym

    I've a math degree and I have done some pretty tough courses.
    "University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). "
    No. That's not true. Most universities offer one term (easier)statistics course for business and social sciences majors.
    BTW, I found most engineering and science(other than math) majors couldn't do the following question off hand:
    To Prove:
    (- 1) x (- 1) = + 1
    ...............
    A math fact all junior grade pupils learn but few college grads can prove.

    Replies: @Anonym, @Pat Boyle, @ogunsiron

    You are of course completely right. I taught statistics at night for a new school (John F. Kennedy College) that had had no math courses. They were in danger of losing their accreditation so they recruited me. I had taken stat as an undergraduate in Psychology. At George Mason I was the best math student on campus but GM in those days was no Cal Tech. I never considered myself particularly good at math.

    Later I went back to grad school and took a lot more math. I took statistics in the math department. If you study stat as a branch of math it can be challenging but the “cook book” stat taught to Psychology and Sociology students is barely math at all. I know because I taught stat to just such students very successfully.

    • Replies: @anon
    @Pat Boyle

    Basic classical statistics is hard, in part, because it is stupid. NHST(Null Hypothesis Significance Testing) is simply wrongheaded for many problems. A Bayesian approach is congruent with your lying eyes.

    Not that Nancy LeTourneau isn't ignorant.

    Replies: @Pat Boyle

  129. Anon[277] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Anonym

    Non-STEM majors usually take a special statistics for social science course, not the main statistics sequence for applied math majors. Also, if you check the authors, most studies have a dedicated person for the statistics.

    Nevertheless, a principle investigator without a good grasp of statistics will result in studies whose very conceptions are bad.

    A really smart person who is genuinely interested in social sciences, or even some of the humanities, would do well to major in STEM as an undergraduate, for instance applied math, physics, or hard economics, and then get in a masters or doctorate program for the social science. It's easy to catch up on the soft stuff later, but not so with the quantification.

    Replies: @Anon

    “A really smart person who is genuinely interested in social sciences, or even some of the humanities, would do well to major in STEM as an undergraduate, for instance applied math, physics, or hard economics, and then get in a masters or doctorate program for the social science. It’s easy to catch up on the soft stuff later, but not so with the quantification.”

    Or even before. When Greek was a requirement, it weeded out the bullshit artists. Plato, of course, took Greek for granted, but his Academy had a sign saying “Let no one but a geometer enter.” If Greek and 4 years of high school math were a requirement for entering college (you know, like some old time Eton deal), even the humanities would be serious again.

  130. @Pat Boyle
    @Barnard

    There is another possibility. When I got divorced I advertised on the web for girls. I like tall smart girls so I wanted applicants to be at least 5'7" and have a doctorate.

    I met a girl with a doctorate who taught at Stanford. Alas it was an EdD not a PhD and she confessed that she never could do algebra. She thought it was particularly cruel to make kids learn such a subject. She was really bad at math.

    She often claimed to have an IQ of 160. I estimated her IQ to be about 125. But she wasn't lying. Her math was so bad that she couldn't grasp things like probability mass functions or interval scales. She actually thought she had a 160 IQ.

    That's why last year when a woman won the Fields Medal, it was such a big story. Girls are bad at math.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @The Wobbly Guy

    I certainly don’t doubt that she wss bad at math, but could you give examples of her not understanding those concepts? One’s ability to understand a concept depends on a lot of factors, as does one’s ability to judge another person’s ability to understand a given concept.

    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    @AndrewR

    I gave two examples.

    Replies: @AndrewR

  131. @Anonym
    @syonredux

    University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). If you are a humanities major without math aptitude, it would be practically impossible I would think.

    Basic statistics is easy for people with math aptitude, but a vast number of people struggle with the concept that "group X on average have a higher IQ than group Y" is not disproven by the existence of an individual in group Y with a higher IQ than group X. Substitute anything for IQ, same basic point.

    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it's having people who understand math run the country.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Yan Shen, @Twinkie, @Lin, @for-the-record, @AnotherDad, @J1234, @Pat Boyle, @Bill, @Hans Tholstrup

    I’m sure others have thought this thought before – but it is new to me. The unspoken notion that runs through this thread is that race-equalitarian liberals think the way they do because they are innumerate.

    I think there is something to this idea. But how to explain Lewontin?

    BTW Gould – his colleague in Marxism – was quite weak in math. Read Gould’s writing on statistics – not so much wrong as just sophomoric.

    • Replies: @Tulip
    @Pat Boyle

    Let's face it, the Blank Slate is a nice and comforting illusion, and the idea of pervasive and natural inequalities is nasty and unwelcome (to most good people).

    If you are a quantitative idiot, then data-based arguments don't make sense to you, you can't understand them. It might as well be in Chinese. And you can always find anecdotes to "prove" the data away.

    There are just the nice people who have the nice and comforting story, and the mean, nasty--dare I say hateful?--people with the nasty story. Which would you choose?

    Is it a coincidence that Shockley, Watson, etc. were all nasty people who understood quantitative arguments?

    Replies: @Pat Boyle, @utu

    , @ogunsiron
    @Pat Boyle

    Rabbi Gould himself may have been semi-innumerate and not too bright, but being really good at math is no obstacle at all to adhering to all sorts of beliefs that make no sense.

    On twitter the other day a legitimate stats prof was going on and on about the made up "problem" of "bias in machine learning". The man is smart, but he simply accepts that if some machine learning algorithm "discriminates" against minorities, it's because there is something wrong with the data.
    It just has to be bad data. It can't be the the algorithms are learning correctly. That stats prof is not a stupid man. But he's not the man who's going to question the civil religion of antiracism.

  132. @Pericles
    @Reg Cæsar

    But it would be fun to present her normie articles with her hardcore hate twitter interspersed.


    Oh ho ho, I have a high IQ but a terrible memory and no facility for reasoning. So like all of us, I have had my struggles.

    WHITE MAN -- DIE. NOW.

    But I persevered and got my degree from a very expensive university, I will tell you.

    DEATH TO THE ORANGE MONKEY (video of author in vagina costume spitting on hooters girl)

    Yet it does seem almost unfair, unreasonable even, to try to compute an average of IQ for a population. A population that, I remind you, has been historically oppressed in ghettos.

    IT IS A MORAL REQUIREMENT TO TAKE IN ALL REFUGEES. IT JUST IS.

    Ghettos that certainly remind us of Europe and the Holocaust.

    PALESTINIANS BTFO LOL (video of shootings in the West Bank)

    Can you even compute such a nasty average, or as statisticians themselves significantly call it, a 'mean'?

     

    Replies: @AndrewR

    I’m sure there are exceptions, but most leftists tend to side with the Palestinians over the Israelis. This boils down to the simple fact that Palestinians tend to be browner than Israelis.

    • Replies: @Pericles
    @AndrewR

    (I was idly speculating on ethnicity.)

    Regarding Israel and the left, I got the impression that Israel was cozy with the Soviets and then switched sides. After that, the European left has been leery of, or even hostile to, Israel.

    Here is a brief description which mostly lays the breakup blame on the Soviets.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_and_the_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict

    , @ogunsiron
    @AndrewR

    Ahed Tamimi must be quite head scratcher for those people.

  133. Here is the paper on the Harlem Children’s Zone schools:

    https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/hcz_nov_2010.pdf

    Study shows experimental group had higher test scores after 1.24 years at HCZ compared to control, control taken from students who lost the lottery for admissions. Obviously, projected out to infinity, graduates of HCZ will all win Nobel Prizes.

    Brookings Institute seems to believe NYC Charter Schools are good, and HCZ middling:

    https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-harlem-childrens-zone-promise-neighborhoods-and-the-broader-bolder-approach-to-education/

    But I think anyone would agree that better schools will produce stronger results, this does not refute hereditarian claims that cognitive abilities are 50-80% genetic. If you get a kid a better basketball coach, they will play basketball better, no matter what hereditary factors limit their abilities.

    Granted, Dobbie and Fryer BELIEVE that with better schools, it may be possible to close the racial gap (as it would if testing gap between students and control group expanded and persisted in a linear fashion). Just as I BELIEVE it would be nice if they were correct, but we have been through this rodeo before with over-hyped government programs that seem promising but always fail to pan out. What Jensen said in 1968 remains, basically, true.

    The real question is whether the achievement gap persists in “good schools” with racially mixed populations, just as height gaps that persist in the influence of “good nutrition” are likely evidence of different genetic capacities.

  134. @Pat Boyle
    @Anonym

    I'm sure others have thought this thought before - but it is new to me. The unspoken notion that runs through this thread is that race-equalitarian liberals think the way they do because they are innumerate.

    I think there is something to this idea. But how to explain Lewontin?

    BTW Gould - his colleague in Marxism - was quite weak in math. Read Gould's writing on statistics - not so much wrong as just sophomoric.

    Replies: @Tulip, @ogunsiron

    Let’s face it, the Blank Slate is a nice and comforting illusion, and the idea of pervasive and natural inequalities is nasty and unwelcome (to most good people).

    If you are a quantitative idiot, then data-based arguments don’t make sense to you, you can’t understand them. It might as well be in Chinese. And you can always find anecdotes to “prove” the data away.

    There are just the nice people who have the nice and comforting story, and the mean, nasty–dare I say hateful?–people with the nasty story. Which would you choose?

    Is it a coincidence that Shockley, Watson, etc. were all nasty people who understood quantitative arguments?

    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    @Tulip

    As it happens I knew Shockley a bit. You're right he was an ass hole.

    , @utu
    @Tulip


    Is it a coincidence that Shockley, Watson, etc. were all nasty people who understood quantitative arguments?
     
    No. There is a connection.
  135. @eah
    She appears to have no trouble remembering where the refrigerator is. Or how to crop a foto.

    https://kwtri4b8r0ep8ho61118ipob-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Nancy-LeTourneau.jpg

    Replies: @Pericles, @Malcolm X-Lax

    My guess is she is VERY open to dating outside of her race.

  136. anonymous[803] • Disclaimer says:
    @Moses

    I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy...
     
    That's the stop word for me. Nothing of value can come out of this person's mouth.

    Replies: @Realist, @TheJester, @Olorin, @anonymous, @Derp

    Is that par with a masters in education?

  137. What it seems that people fail to grasp is that lies *inevitably* get people killed, even nice lies.

    Pretending that you should hire engineers based on their racial or ethnic origins rather than their competence means that your bridges will fall down more often. Ditto the military. Filling up the civil service with less competent public servants means experiencing avoidable regulatory problems–like poison drinking water and building failures.

    Filing the Academy with a bunch of ideological diversity drones means some other society will come up with the new innovations of the 21st century, whether military, industrial or otherwise. which will ultimately have geopolitical significance.

  138. anonymous[803] • Disclaimer says:
    @Olorin
    This is 1A ditz-head signalling. It has nothing to do with the topic it purports to be about.

    From the 1980s on one could observe in the Ed Biz and chattering classes in general a certain kind of woman who in earlier eras would go to college to find a husband.

    By the Age of Reagan, when the war on working class white families was well underway and the pocketed profits from 1940s-1970s industrialism were being rapidly offshored and replaced with Wall Street speculation as the grossest possible national product, this changed.

    Not on the woman's end necessarily--biology being what it is--but on the institutions'.

    Women went to college, then grad school, then grad school maybe again and maybe still again, adding degrees and certifications and conferences and conventions to the CV, but never allowed to admit the old-fashioned desire to mate and spawn.

    Feminism forbade it...and so did her female bosses and competitors, who took the search for a mate into the workplace.

    As the Ed Biz and chattering classes became more powerful, ubiquitous, and feminized in the latter part of the 20th century, it became increasingly crucial for any woman out on her own to signal to the women who increasingly controlled her work paycheck (one of the very few paths open to the single woman wanting to spawn) that, oh no, she posed absolutely no threat to THEIR power or alliances or carefully curated circles of supporters.

    While they gathered to ingest comestibles and compare last night's rides on the cock carousel and make fun of their temporary husbands or boyfriends or dates or male bosses or taxi driver. The equivalent of confession and communication for the ascendant secular goddess religion...and strategic intelligence-gathering on competitors.

    So women like our writer above signal as a ditz-head in expectation of agreement.

    Which she may well be, but I'm guessing she's more like a genuinely not-stupid but not hugely smart woman never allowed or coached to navigate biological life honestly as right-fat-part-of-the-bell-curvian. Which means a woman who, in previous eras would have been a prime candidate for marriage and motherhood and male protection and social respect.

    My drafting the above two sentences was interrupted by a robo-call by something called (according to caller ID) the Women's Cancer Fund.

    The robot initiated the call with a professional-sounding woman's voice saying my first name in a rising tone. When I replied with a cold expletive (to trigger the robo-response), it replied in a laughing tone, "Getting ahold of you is harder than getting my husband to cook dinner!" Then five or six spasms of carefully vocal engineered laughter.

    Chicks tincupping us for donations to chick cancer funds (when men's health problems are vastly underfunded, except maybe for recreational-boner problems), and insulting us to our faces while playing the ditz while expecting us to pay them for the loinal stir they expect by playing ditz-head and giggling. What pisses me off the worst is how many males will contribute to it.

    Anybody else recall this?:

    The sex-bias myth in medical research
    https://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/96jun/cancer/kadar.htm

    Replies: @anonymous

    And what’s with all these women and law school? Over fifty percent of the law school grads are chickie poohs who are now saddled with stratospheric debt, topped off by the fact that the number of lawyer jobs are dwindling. Why? Too many lawyers. Which is why so many of these babes wind up as “journalists.”

    • Replies: @Olorin
    @anonymous

    anon, I figure it's a combination of push and pull.

    I worked at a law school for a few years in the late 1970s and in my role got to listen to the admissions dean and staff talk about how to bolster interest, application, and enrollment. Like many other Ed Biz outposts they got input from "education market researchers."

    This was in a "deindustrializing" area, so they established the school's brand as a great training/career path for young people who couldn't turn to the industrial jobs their parents and grandparents had, and build families/communities around. That was sensible to some degree, but only inasmuch as it was placed in larger economic context--more in a moment.

    They also whiffed the estrogen in the air and sought applicants from outreach to women's colleges and high schools. Any discussion of the long term sustainability of this latter strategy was shut down not because it was considered misogynist or whatever, but because, by gum, the market researchers said that women were looking for degrees that promised lucrative rewards.

    The question of how many of those students, female or otherwise, would actually go on to graduate, take the bar exam, retain their bar access, practice law, make money, and contribute to their alma mater?

    Utterly ignored.

    Later on there was added the satanic new element of providing easy debt for this scheme.

    Since many of those gals showed up in law school expecting/hoping to find husbands, and leaving when they did (or didn't), or found it harder than expected, or really simply didn't like it...that further eroded the sand under the foundation.

    One last thing, there were discussions involving some of the old military college guys on the board of trustees where it was suggested that minting too many lawyers would present its own problems. One guy--an old Queens boy and former cadet himself who went on to found one of the first retail stock-investment companies in the US--figured automation of basic legal services would also reduce the number of jobs, probably sooner than later.

    But they were ignored, because they were old military guys, and what did they know, war being all bad and stuff.

    As for the Ed Biz, we should never rely on people who spend all their time playing and working with children and youths to provide a mature view of possible future developments in economics, society, policy, geopolitics, etc. My proof for this is the Carnegie Foundation project called TIAA-CREF: educators can't even manage their own retirement savings.

    Which is OK, since many of us know that that sort of thing is a huge fiat currency/speculation shell game to begin with. But our kids, and development of youthful intellectual capital, is not BS or a shell game. I'd like to say it should be left to wiser heads...but I'm not sure who that would be at this point. The people looking to privatize The Evergreen State College would say, "The Free Market," but considering how many unemployed lawyers that produced in the '80s and on, that strikes me as a daft option.

  139. @J.Ross
    OT Who could have foreseen a massive uptick in anti-Semitism following unrestrained Muslim immigration? Clearly these youths are being radicalized by Russian hackers on social media.
    Notice the last quoted bit.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/germany-struggles-with-an-unfamiliar-form-of-anti-semitism-1522584002

    Solomon Michalski loved going to his new school on a leafy Berlin street because it was vibrant and diverse, with most students from migrant families. But when the teenage grandson of Holocaust survivors let it slip that he was Jewish, former friends started hissing insults at him in class, he says. Last year some of them brandishing what looked like a gun took him aside and said they would execute him.
    It was no isolated occurrence. The police registered 1,453 anti-Semitic incidents in Germany last year, more than in five of the previous seven years.
    German police attribute more than 90% of cases nationwide to far-right offenders. But Jewish activists and victim representatives say the data are misleading because police automatically label any incident where the perpetrators aren’t known as coming from the far right.
     

    Replies: @Pericles, @ThirdWorldSteveReader, @Oswald Spengler

    The perps aren’t known or the authorities aren’t too concerned with finding the real culprits because they would be politically embarrassing?

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Oswald Spengler

    Neither. "Richard Spencer Did It" is the default answer until proven otherwise, if that ever happens. It's like if the detectives working in shifts to catch the people who stole Lebowski's car were militant La Raza types who used the car theft -- surely by South Carolinian Klansmen -- to call for more mestizo immigration to LA. And how should it be if, given more unrestricted mestizo inflow, we should happen to come across yet still more evidence of car-stealing Klansmen? You know the answer.
    tldr the police are not the police.

  140. Lin says:
    @AnotherDad
    @Yan Shen


    Interesting comment about the Chinese. I wonder if the reason why East Asians in general tend to be far less PC than other ethnic groups is in part because of the skew towards mathematical reasoning…
     
    I think it's definitely a factor, but i'd guess it's more like a third order factor.

    The Chinese in fact have *more* compliant personality traits than white people. (Interestingly while their IQ skew--more mathematical/spatial--is more "male" relative to whites, their personality package--more compliant, cooperative--is more "female" relative to whites.) Whites are actually more independent, less inclined to get with the program.

    The Chinese have certainly complied with really stupid ideology in the past--the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution. They just have a much saner ideology now. (Their insane elite ideologies just killed millions of Chinese, our elite ideology is designed to kill off white people in total.)

    My take--SWAG--for why the Chinese are so much saner:
    -- lower affective empathy
    -- lack of Christian love-thy-neighbor universalism
    -- less exposure to Jewish propaganda

    (I think *not* being fluent in English and not continuously exposed to Hollywood and other American media right now, improves the survival probability of any nation.)

    Math skew of IQ would rank behind all those as a casual factor in Chinese sanity.

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @Lin, @ogunsiron

    My take–SWAG–for why the Chinese are so much saner:
    – lower affective empathy
    – lack of Christian love-thy-neighbor universalism
    – less exposure to Jewish propaganda
    ..”

    I disagree. I once posted the followings to a article that labelled the Chinese economy as ‘Neo-liberal’ at a ‘leftist’ site and it was deleted as trolling attempt. I later asked why and I didn’t get a reply:
    …………
    ” I disagree with labelling like ‘neoliberalism’

    I would call it ‘Comm-fucism’. Confucius, as my former 2ndary school history teacher said, was a ‘primitive communist’ and he had vision of quasi-socialist welfare state. (BTW, I’m no ‘confucist’. Confucius told people not to be too religious and I agree)Here’s the text of his–

    礼运大同篇–The way of Harmony

    大道之行也,天下为公—–When the Great Way is practiced, the world is for the public.

    选贤与能—-Those with virtue and those with ability are chosen and used.

    讲信修睦—- People value trustworthiness and cultivate harmony with each other.
    故人不独亲其亲,不独子其子—– Thus people do not treat only their parents like parents, nor do people treat only their sons like sons.

    使老有所终,壮 有所用,幼有所长—- That makes the aged have the appropriate last years, those in their prime have the appropriate employment, and the young have the appropriate growth and development.

    鳏寡孤独废疾者,皆有所养—- Elderly men with no spouses, widows, orphans, elderly people without children or grandchildren, the handicapped, the ill – all are provided for.

    男有分,女有归—- Males have their station; females, their places to belong to.

    货恶其弃於地也,不必藏於己—– Money/Goods are thrown on the ground and thus
    despised; it is not necessary to store money on one’s body.

    力恶其不出於身也,不必为已—Labor is despised if it does not come from oneself, and it does not have to be on behalf of oneself.

    是故谋闭而不兴,盗窃乱贼而不作—Therefore people don’t engage in intrigue or trickery, nor do they engage in robbery, theft, and rebellion.

    故外户而不闭—Thus, though people leave their houses they don’t close their doors.

    是谓大同— This is called the “Great Together” (or ‘Unity’, ‘Harmony’)…”

  141. @Yan Shen
    @Twinkie

    Well I don't know how meritocratic the CPC is, but until recently a high percentage of the top leadership did have engineering degrees or the likes, although that appears to have changed recently...

    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/2117169/out-technocrats-chinas-new-breed-politicians


    Only a decade ago, eight of the nine top Communist Party leaders studied engineering or natural sciences – the most sought-after majors when the country was struggling to industrialise.

    President Xi Jinping, who studied chemical engineering at Tsinghua University, was the only one with such experience, but he went straight to the government after graduation and pursued a higher degree in Marxist theories and political education.

    Among his peers, two studied political education for their first degree and the rest majored in management, philosophy, politics or law.
     

    Of course this doesn't necessarily suggest that these men aren't reasonably competent mathematically...

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Highlander

    So, the “China is heading for a fall” types may be right?

  142. “I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy and went to graduate school with a whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.”

    If this isn’t a joke, what still qualifies as a joke?

  143. @anonymous
    @Olorin

    And what's with all these women and law school? Over fifty percent of the law school grads are chickie poohs who are now saddled with stratospheric debt, topped off by the fact that the number of lawyer jobs are dwindling. Why? Too many lawyers. Which is why so many of these babes wind up as "journalists."

    Replies: @Olorin

    anon, I figure it’s a combination of push and pull.

    I worked at a law school for a few years in the late 1970s and in my role got to listen to the admissions dean and staff talk about how to bolster interest, application, and enrollment. Like many other Ed Biz outposts they got input from “education market researchers.”

    This was in a “deindustrializing” area, so they established the school’s brand as a great training/career path for young people who couldn’t turn to the industrial jobs their parents and grandparents had, and build families/communities around. That was sensible to some degree, but only inasmuch as it was placed in larger economic context–more in a moment.

    They also whiffed the estrogen in the air and sought applicants from outreach to women’s colleges and high schools. Any discussion of the long term sustainability of this latter strategy was shut down not because it was considered misogynist or whatever, but because, by gum, the market researchers said that women were looking for degrees that promised lucrative rewards.

    The question of how many of those students, female or otherwise, would actually go on to graduate, take the bar exam, retain their bar access, practice law, make money, and contribute to their alma mater?

    Utterly ignored.

    Later on there was added the satanic new element of providing easy debt for this scheme.

    Since many of those gals showed up in law school expecting/hoping to find husbands, and leaving when they did (or didn’t), or found it harder than expected, or really simply didn’t like it…that further eroded the sand under the foundation.

    One last thing, there were discussions involving some of the old military college guys on the board of trustees where it was suggested that minting too many lawyers would present its own problems. One guy–an old Queens boy and former cadet himself who went on to found one of the first retail stock-investment companies in the US–figured automation of basic legal services would also reduce the number of jobs, probably sooner than later.

    But they were ignored, because they were old military guys, and what did they know, war being all bad and stuff.

    As for the Ed Biz, we should never rely on people who spend all their time playing and working with children and youths to provide a mature view of possible future developments in economics, society, policy, geopolitics, etc. My proof for this is the Carnegie Foundation project called TIAA-CREF: educators can’t even manage their own retirement savings.

    Which is OK, since many of us know that that sort of thing is a huge fiat currency/speculation shell game to begin with. But our kids, and development of youthful intellectual capital, is not BS or a shell game. I’d like to say it should be left to wiser heads…but I’m not sure who that would be at this point. The people looking to privatize The Evergreen State College would say, “The Free Market,” but considering how many unemployed lawyers that produced in the ’80s and on, that strikes me as a daft option.

  144. @Moses

    I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy...
     
    That's the stop word for me. Nothing of value can come out of this person's mouth.

    Replies: @Realist, @TheJester, @Olorin, @anonymous, @Derp

    I got my masters in foot massage would be more useful.

  145. @Tulip
    You sir are a heretic, and besides, my personal anecdote discounts your data.

    Did I tell you about my neighbor who lived to 96 who chain smoked 3-packs of unfiltered camels a day? I'm high IQ, and I think the surgeon-general is a racist.

    Replies: @jim jones

    Austria has no restrictions on cigarettes and the average lifespan is 82 years, longer than the USA

  146. @Buzz Mohawk

    … Personally, I have a fairly high IQ and yet I have always had a hard time with science and history because I have a terrible memory for facts. I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy and went to graduate school with a whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.
     
    Hee hee hee!

    Translation:

    "Personally, I'm smart but I've always had a hard time thinking. Actual knowledge is difficult for me to remember, so I studied squishy subjects that allow a lot of subjective bullshitting. I went to graduate school with a lot of like-minded idiots who were smart but literally got sick when it came time to think logically."

    Replies: @Maple Curtain, @J.Ross, @Bill, @Jim Christian

    Is she claiming to be lazy, then? I mean, learning to think with mathematical rigor is painful, hard work, even for a smart person. I don’t think I even understand what she is trying to say.

    • Replies: @Gringo
    @Bill


    Is she claiming to be lazy, then? I mean, learning to think with mathematical rigor is painful, hard work, even for a smart person. I don’t think I even understand what she is trying to say.
     
    As she probably doesn't understand what she is trying to say- she is of the "I feel therefore write" school - why should you?
  147. @Anonym
    @syonredux

    University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). If you are a humanities major without math aptitude, it would be practically impossible I would think.

    Basic statistics is easy for people with math aptitude, but a vast number of people struggle with the concept that "group X on average have a higher IQ than group Y" is not disproven by the existence of an individual in group Y with a higher IQ than group X. Substitute anything for IQ, same basic point.

    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it's having people who understand math run the country.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Yan Shen, @Twinkie, @Lin, @for-the-record, @AnotherDad, @J1234, @Pat Boyle, @Bill, @Hans Tholstrup

    University level statistics is hard,

    Compared to what? It’s certainly not hard compared to, say, multivariable calculus. Statistics seems like pretty much a gimme once you understand calculus. Or maybe I’m implicitly norming on the wrong population of students or something? You’re saying statistics is hard for most IQ=110 people? No way is it hard for most IQ=125 people.

    • Replies: @Lin
    @Bill

    'Compared to what? It’s certainly not hard compared to, say, multivariable calculus. .."
    Calculus could be learned at one of several level of sophistication from the start.
    ...
    During the summer of my grade 9(equivalent), I started self-learning calculus by studying an old british book 'Elementary Calculus' by Bowman. There's also a Teach Yourself Calculus from the Teach yourself series.
    Modern calculus was invented by Issac Newtin and Leibniz but it wasn't put into vigorous form until Weierstrass 200 yrs later. Vigorous calculus is a tough subject but could be learned by very enthusiastic students from the start.
    For tough treatises in English on the subject,try:
    --Calculus by Spivak
    --Introduction to Calculus and Analysis by Courant(one of the major jewish academic exiles to US from pre-WW2 Germany)
    --Principle of Mathematical Analysis by Rudin (not exactly recommended, too hard)
    ..........
    Another interesting problem:
    Design a real function that's undifferentiable except at one single point

  148. @AnotherDad
    @Yan Shen


    And were you also aware that our good friend John Derbyshire married someone Chinese? Commenter AnotherDad seems to be privy to all of the most fascinating details, as evidenced his uh EL James style descriptions of the ins and outs of their relationship…
     
    Huh?

    I don't know the Derbyshires nor am privy to any details of their relationship--other than what Derb mentions in his columns or podcasts (which i probably get to a half or a third of). (I suppose i should send Derb a few bucks when i'm getting my Sailer contribution together.)

    I've just pointed out the weird "Yan Shen" obsession with Derbyshire, where you can hardly hold back in any extended comment of more than a few paragraphs without name checking Derb as somehow obsessed with blacks. Heck, Ron Unz--very generously--gave you a column and ... sure enough ... it was too tough to for you to get through it without the mandatory Derb shot at the end. I had to laugh. You'd gone on and on and on, and then at the end ... you just couldn't help yourself. (Yes, he's banging a Chinese gal--get over it already!)

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @Yan Shen, @Mishra

    (I suppose i should send Derb a few bucks when i’m getting my Sailer contribution together.)

    Well, I love Steve S like a brother but the Derb is sickly and living in abject penury in a one-room shack with a leaky roof in Nassau County while Steve lives in a palatial mansion in Pasadena and drives a Maserati.

    I might have the details slightly wrong, but still..

  149. CCZ says:

    Scientific [sic] American assures us that Hillary (and probably Nancy LeTourneau) are right and “implicit bias is real—and it matters” because black bodies suffer.

    “For example, metro areas with greater average implicit bias have larger racial disparities in police shootings. And counties with greater average implicit bias have larger racial disparities in infant health problems. These correlations are important: the lives of black citizens and newborn black babies depend on them.”

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-think-about-implicit-bias/

  150. @Anonym
    @syonredux

    University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). If you are a humanities major without math aptitude, it would be practically impossible I would think.

    Basic statistics is easy for people with math aptitude, but a vast number of people struggle with the concept that "group X on average have a higher IQ than group Y" is not disproven by the existence of an individual in group Y with a higher IQ than group X. Substitute anything for IQ, same basic point.

    If there is one thing the Chinese get right, it's having people who understand math run the country.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Yan Shen, @Twinkie, @Lin, @for-the-record, @AnotherDad, @J1234, @Pat Boyle, @Bill, @Hans Tholstrup

    Sorry but that’s bogus. There is no such thing as ‘math aptitude’. If you put in the work you get the results. Simple.
    The east Asians have what is called a ‘growth mindset’ on math, too many Americans have a ‘fixed mindset’ – the “I’m no good at that and I can’t do anything about it, and it’s unfair you expect me to”.
    Complete B.S.

    • Replies: @The Wobbly Guy
    @Hans Tholstrup

    The growth mindset is just a measure of conscientiousness.

    According to Jordan Peterson, it's interesting that all other personality facets (Extraversion, Neuroticism, Openness, Agreeableness, IQ) have been linked to clear biological factors, but Conscientiousness isn't. Oh, we know that it's partly heritable, but that's about it.

    Replies: @res

  151. @Buzz Mohawk

    … Personally, I have a fairly high IQ and yet I have always had a hard time with science and history because I have a terrible memory for facts. I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy and went to graduate school with a whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.
     
    Hee hee hee!

    Translation:

    "Personally, I'm smart but I've always had a hard time thinking. Actual knowledge is difficult for me to remember, so I studied squishy subjects that allow a lot of subjective bullshitting. I went to graduate school with a lot of like-minded idiots who were smart but literally got sick when it came time to think logically."

    Replies: @Maple Curtain, @J.Ross, @Bill, @Jim Christian

    Translation:
    “Personally, I’m smart but I’ve always had a hard time thinking. Actual knowledge is difficult for me to remember, so I studied squishy subjects that allow a lot of subjective bullshitting. I went to graduate school with a lot of like-minded idiots who were smart but literally got sick when it came time to think logically.”

    Nice. As a sidebar to their tales, the question always comes up with these broads if you take em out to dinner: “Does my Master’s Degree make my ass look fat?”. Yes, honey, why yes it DOES. Ye Gawds. There it is Gents. The New Matriarchy. Same as the Patriarchy. Whaddya gonna do, they own it now.

  152. I got my master’s degree in marriage and family therapy

    In the scientific study replication crisis, don’t Social Psychology studies fail at the highest percentages?

  153. @Bill
    @Anonym


    University level statistics is hard,
     
    Compared to what? It's certainly not hard compared to, say, multivariable calculus. Statistics seems like pretty much a gimme once you understand calculus. Or maybe I'm implicitly norming on the wrong population of students or something? You're saying statistics is hard for most IQ=110 people? No way is it hard for most IQ=125 people.

    Replies: @Lin

    ‘Compared to what? It’s certainly not hard compared to, say, multivariable calculus. ..”
    Calculus could be learned at one of several level of sophistication from the start.

    During the summer of my grade 9(equivalent), I started self-learning calculus by studying an old british book ‘Elementary Calculus’ by Bowman. There’s also a Teach Yourself Calculus from the Teach yourself series.
    Modern calculus was invented by Issac Newtin and Leibniz but it wasn’t put into vigorous form until Weierstrass 200 yrs later. Vigorous calculus is a tough subject but could be learned by very enthusiastic students from the start.
    For tough treatises in English on the subject,try:
    –Calculus by Spivak
    –Introduction to Calculus and Analysis by Courant(one of the major jewish academic exiles to US from pre-WW2 Germany)
    –Principle of Mathematical Analysis by Rudin (not exactly recommended, too hard)
    ……….
    Another interesting problem:
    Design a real function that’s undifferentiable except at one single point

  154. @Tulip
    @Pat Boyle

    Let's face it, the Blank Slate is a nice and comforting illusion, and the idea of pervasive and natural inequalities is nasty and unwelcome (to most good people).

    If you are a quantitative idiot, then data-based arguments don't make sense to you, you can't understand them. It might as well be in Chinese. And you can always find anecdotes to "prove" the data away.

    There are just the nice people who have the nice and comforting story, and the mean, nasty--dare I say hateful?--people with the nasty story. Which would you choose?

    Is it a coincidence that Shockley, Watson, etc. were all nasty people who understood quantitative arguments?

    Replies: @Pat Boyle, @utu

    As it happens I knew Shockley a bit. You’re right he was an ass hole.

  155. @AndrewR
    @Pat Boyle

    I certainly don't doubt that she wss bad at math, but could you give examples of her not understanding those concepts? One's ability to understand a concept depends on a lot of factors, as does one's ability to judge another person's ability to understand a given concept.

    Replies: @Pat Boyle

    I gave two examples.

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Pat Boyle

    No, you alleged that she didn't understand probability mass functions or interval scales. I asked for specific instances of her not understanding those things, and you responded smugly.

    Replies: @Pat Boyle

  156. @black sea
    Someone needs to explain to her that in the realm of IQ testing, 100 is not a perfect score.

    Replies: @Gringo

    Someone needs to explain to her that in the realm of IQ testing, 100 is not a perfect score.

    When my mother was a high school teacher, she had a conference with a parent who informed her that the school was remiss in its treatment of her child. He had an IQ of 100, so why wasn’t he in honor classes? The parent didn’t realize that an IQ of 100 meant average.

  157. @Forbes
    @Realist

    If only that was the excuse.

    Replies: @Realist

    You mean he is that stupid….sober?

  158. @Oswald Spengler
    @J.Ross

    The perps aren't known or the authorities aren't too concerned with finding the real culprits because they would be politically embarrassing?

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Neither. “Richard Spencer Did It” is the default answer until proven otherwise, if that ever happens. It’s like if the detectives working in shifts to catch the people who stole Lebowski’s car were militant La Raza types who used the car theft — surely by South Carolinian Klansmen — to call for more mestizo immigration to LA. And how should it be if, given more unrestricted mestizo inflow, we should happen to come across yet still more evidence of car-stealing Klansmen? You know the answer.
    tldr the police are not the police.

  159. @ThirdWorldSteveReader
    @J.Ross

    Let me guess, the far right Aryan power was named Mohamed Ahmed?

    Replies: @J.Ross

    We’ll never know. Sure is funny how, on the one hand, protecting Jews is important enough to justify censorship and gangstalking, but on the other hand, hey, we don’t want to lose our minds (or prosecute a Muslim) over this.

  160. @Bill
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Is she claiming to be lazy, then? I mean, learning to think with mathematical rigor is painful, hard work, even for a smart person. I don't think I even understand what she is trying to say.

    Replies: @Gringo

    Is she claiming to be lazy, then? I mean, learning to think with mathematical rigor is painful, hard work, even for a smart person. I don’t think I even understand what she is trying to say.

    As she probably doesn’t understand what she is trying to say- she is of the “I feel therefore write” school – why should you?

  161. @Pat Boyle
    @AndrewR

    I gave two examples.

    Replies: @AndrewR

    No, you alleged that she didn’t understand probability mass functions or interval scales. I asked for specific instances of her not understanding those things, and you responded smugly.

    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    @AndrewR

    I didn't intend to be smug. If I came off that way, I apologize.

  162. @Jack D

    The age-old racist notion is that white people are more intelligent than black people, something that has been revived by Charles Murray and Andrew Sullivan.
     
    I don't know where those terrible racists got the idea that was true. There is certainly no statistical evidence whatsoever for that load of racist nonsense, except for every single study done in the last 100 years.

    Replies: @Bill jones, @Mishra, @anon

    How about horse racing? Or dogs?

  163. @Pat Boyle
    @Lin

    You are of course completely right. I taught statistics at night for a new school (John F. Kennedy College) that had had no math courses. They were in danger of losing their accreditation so they recruited me. I had taken stat as an undergraduate in Psychology. At George Mason I was the best math student on campus but GM in those days was no Cal Tech. I never considered myself particularly good at math.

    Later I went back to grad school and took a lot more math. I took statistics in the math department. If you study stat as a branch of math it can be challenging but the "cook book" stat taught to Psychology and Sociology students is barely math at all. I know because I taught stat to just such students very successfully.

    Replies: @anon

    Basic classical statistics is hard, in part, because it is stupid. NHST(Null Hypothesis Significance Testing) is simply wrongheaded for many problems. A Bayesian approach is congruent with your lying eyes.

    Not that Nancy LeTourneau isn’t ignorant.

    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    @anon

    OTOH teaching stat occasionally brings a look of recognition to a students eyes. This is the "Eureka" moment that teachers hope to see but seldom do.

    The Neyman-Pierson Lemma is just abstract enough that most students - I taught mostly business students - don't really understand it. Most just learn the mechanical math procedures and never understand why those steps were created. But sometimes you can actually see that moment when comprehension occurs.

    I don't think history teachers ever have those moments.

  164. @Tulip
    @Pat Boyle

    Let's face it, the Blank Slate is a nice and comforting illusion, and the idea of pervasive and natural inequalities is nasty and unwelcome (to most good people).

    If you are a quantitative idiot, then data-based arguments don't make sense to you, you can't understand them. It might as well be in Chinese. And you can always find anecdotes to "prove" the data away.

    There are just the nice people who have the nice and comforting story, and the mean, nasty--dare I say hateful?--people with the nasty story. Which would you choose?

    Is it a coincidence that Shockley, Watson, etc. were all nasty people who understood quantitative arguments?

    Replies: @Pat Boyle, @utu

    Is it a coincidence that Shockley, Watson, etc. were all nasty people who understood quantitative arguments?

    No. There is a connection.

  165. @Yan Shen
    @AnotherDad

    Well your uh fascinating EL James style descriptions did seem to suggest to the contrary. I mean I certainly don't have much a clue regarding the exact ins and outs of such matters as pertaining to the Derb.

    I'm glad you got a chuckle from reading that part of my article. It was meant to be a bit of tongue-in-cheek ribbing of our good friend Mr. Derbyshire! I myself laughed as well when composing that part, along with my similarly good natured dig at our friend Whiskey.

    You meet all sorts of fascinating white nationalist types on this site, many of whom are quite unaware of just how out of touch they are with mainstream norms. So one can't fault me too much for having a little bit of fun every now and then... ;)

    Replies: @J.Ross

    are quite unaware of just how out of touch they are with mainstream norms

    Is that how “normie” got to be the lowest slur?
    And am I obsessed with sharks or bears if I want to be eaten by neither?

  166. Anonymous[527] • Disclaimer says:
    @Barnard
    Does she disclose her IQ anywhere in this article? The reader may start to get the impression it isn't as high as she claims.

    Replies: @res, @AndrewR, @Pat Boyle, @Anonymous

    ” I find it interesting that Klein and Sullivan zero in completely on whether or not they have to do with IQ. The age-old racist notion is that white people are more intelligent than black people, something that has been revived by Charles Murray and Andrew Sullivan.”

    -These white folks really live in a reality-proof bubble, don’t they? I bet they don’t believe that Wakanda could’ve happened, either. Well, white doubter, take a gander at the comment section of Worldstar sometime. Nothing but Godel’s theorems and debates on quantum field theory going on over there.

  167. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @res
    @Twinkie

    I'd be interested in seeing an analysis of that.

    My sense is that we can make an analogy between the US and Chinese systems being similarly meritocratic (or not). One big difference is that China seems to intentionally draw from a pool of people with a technical background while the US draws from a pool of lawyers (and not the patent kind). Even if the further selection process is not meritocratic that initial selection will have an effect on the results.

    Both groups (and approaches) have their strengths and weaknesses, but I think Anonym's basic point is sound. I think the rise of the professional politician and the route into that group being seen almost exclusively as law is a terrible trend for this country. Having engineers only running the country would be different, but probably just as bad.

    A related question, how do public conversations about societal choices in China compare? I talked about leaders above, but journalists (is there a good equivalent in China?) driving conversations (either on their own or as proxies) while being innumerate seems like an equally big problem.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @J.Ross

    All our pols aren’t lawyers, but too many are, and too many of the “elite” ones, for sure.

  168. @Yan Shen
    @Twinkie

    Well I don't know how meritocratic the CPC is, but until recently a high percentage of the top leadership did have engineering degrees or the likes, although that appears to have changed recently...

    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/2117169/out-technocrats-chinas-new-breed-politicians


    Only a decade ago, eight of the nine top Communist Party leaders studied engineering or natural sciences – the most sought-after majors when the country was struggling to industrialise.

    President Xi Jinping, who studied chemical engineering at Tsinghua University, was the only one with such experience, but he went straight to the government after graduation and pursued a higher degree in Marxist theories and political education.

    Among his peers, two studied political education for their first degree and the rest majored in management, philosophy, politics or law.
     

    Of course this doesn't necessarily suggest that these men aren't reasonably competent mathematically...

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @Highlander

    a higher degree in Marxist theories and political education

    Excuse me while I laugh my ass off.

  169. @res
    @Twinkie

    I'd be interested in seeing an analysis of that.

    My sense is that we can make an analogy between the US and Chinese systems being similarly meritocratic (or not). One big difference is that China seems to intentionally draw from a pool of people with a technical background while the US draws from a pool of lawyers (and not the patent kind). Even if the further selection process is not meritocratic that initial selection will have an effect on the results.

    Both groups (and approaches) have their strengths and weaknesses, but I think Anonym's basic point is sound. I think the rise of the professional politician and the route into that group being seen almost exclusively as law is a terrible trend for this country. Having engineers only running the country would be different, but probably just as bad.

    A related question, how do public conversations about societal choices in China compare? I talked about leaders above, but journalists (is there a good equivalent in China?) driving conversations (either on their own or as proxies) while being innumerate seems like an equally big problem.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @J.Ross

    There’s definitely a good equivalent, Chinese and American journalists are normally distinguishable only by what establishment organ they work at.
    China’s English-language media has a pseudo-discussion program vaguely modelled after Crossfire or Hardball. It’s much clumsier than our political media used to be, but every single “discussion” consists of surrounding what the Party wants with verbal tokens of reasonableness (kind of like uh a frequent commenter here), “when you think about it, it’s only fair that Vietnam return to Chinese rule etc..”
    There is a certain tolerance in China for dumb human interest stories that look like they will keep well away from politics. On one a journalist reported the discovery of a new mushroom which someone eventually told her was actually a discarded sex toy.

    • Replies: @Lin
    @J.Ross

    “when you think about it, it’s only fair that Vietnam return to Chinese rule etc..”
    ....

    I personally have never encountered any similar comments expressed by Chinese. If such wordings existed at any site, likely just reversed or fake propaganda by viets faking as Chinese.
    ...........
    China already has 1.39 billions people, just WhyTF needs more; besides Vietnam is only slightly better off economically per capita than india. Big burden if its part of china. Rising sea-level could submerge much of the Mekong delta

    Replies: @J.Ross

  170. @Pat Boyle
    @Barnard

    There is another possibility. When I got divorced I advertised on the web for girls. I like tall smart girls so I wanted applicants to be at least 5'7" and have a doctorate.

    I met a girl with a doctorate who taught at Stanford. Alas it was an EdD not a PhD and she confessed that she never could do algebra. She thought it was particularly cruel to make kids learn such a subject. She was really bad at math.

    She often claimed to have an IQ of 160. I estimated her IQ to be about 125. But she wasn't lying. Her math was so bad that she couldn't grasp things like probability mass functions or interval scales. She actually thought she had a 160 IQ.

    That's why last year when a woman won the Fields Medal, it was such a big story. Girls are bad at math.

    Replies: @AndrewR, @The Wobbly Guy

    If somebody can’t do algebra, their IQ is probably below 115.

    I teach at a mid-lower tier Junior College in Singapore (ranked abt 11 out of 16 institutions), and every student in the school can do algebra (even the Arts/Humanities students). Looking at the overall distribution, very few of the students in my school are even 1 std deviation above average.

    Yet they can all do algebra.

    Even accounting for the higher mean in Sg (106? thereabouts), 1 std deviation above is 106+15 = 121, and students of that caliber are usually found in either better schools or in the Integrated Programmes. Those who are 2 std deviations (136) are almost exclusive to Raffles Institution and Hwa Chong.

    • Replies: @Pat Boyle
    @The Wobbly Guy

    I taught various computer science courses (Novell and Microsoft) to college undergraduates after I quit teaching statistics. I suspected that all these students who had taken math in high school actually had forgotten all of it. So I instituted my "Smurf Algebra Test'.

    The Smurfs were a cartoon show on morning TV that had a vaguely educational mission. It was aimed at pre-teens I think. They had an episode that was trying to teach a lesson on respecting Muslims. In the episode some Muslim Smurf has a problem which he solves using algebra. As I remember it required simultaneous equations. This little exercise was intended for children.

    I gave this problem in Smurf Algebra to at least three classes - mostly college sophomores. I never found a student who could deal with it. Most understood that it was an algebra problem but couldn't remember how such things were solved.

    I think there's more innumeracy in America than in Singapore.

    , @res
    @The Wobbly Guy

    Differences in math/verbal tilt might help explain the seeming inconsistency. Having a culture that doesn't consider "math is hard" a badge of honor probably helps as well.

  171. @Hans Tholstrup
    @Anonym

    Sorry but that's bogus. There is no such thing as 'math aptitude'. If you put in the work you get the results. Simple.
    The east Asians have what is called a 'growth mindset' on math, too many Americans have a 'fixed mindset' - the "I'm no good at that and I can't do anything about it, and it's unfair you expect me to".
    Complete B.S.

    Replies: @The Wobbly Guy

    The growth mindset is just a measure of conscientiousness.

    According to Jordan Peterson, it’s interesting that all other personality facets (Extraversion, Neuroticism, Openness, Agreeableness, IQ) have been linked to clear biological factors, but Conscientiousness isn’t. Oh, we know that it’s partly heritable, but that’s about it.

    • Replies: @res
    @The Wobbly Guy

    It is interesting how few hits (one for Conscientiousness) are being found for personality traits even in GWAS with decent sample sizes.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5278898/

    From the first reference in that: http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2015-20360-001


    Johnson et al. (2008) also estimated weighted mean broad sense heritability coefficients for core neuroticism, extraversion, openness to experience, agreeableness, and conscientiousness based on data from different kinships. These estimates were 43, .54, .48, .49, and .47, respectively, which is somewhat higher compared to our heritability estimates of single traits. However, confidence intervals of heritability estimates from Johnson et al. (2008) and 11 single trait estimates from our study are overlapping.
     
  172. Are you sure this author isn’t Fredo LeTourneau?

  173. Lin says:
    @J.Ross
    @res

    There's definitely a good equivalent, Chinese and American journalists are normally distinguishable only by what establishment organ they work at.
    China's English-language media has a pseudo-discussion program vaguely modelled after Crossfire or Hardball. It's much clumsier than our political media used to be, but every single "discussion" consists of surrounding what the Party wants with verbal tokens of reasonableness (kind of like uh a frequent commenter here), "when you think about it, it's only fair that Vietnam return to Chinese rule etc.."
    There is a certain tolerance in China for dumb human interest stories that look like they will keep well away from politics. On one a journalist reported the discovery of a new mushroom which someone eventually told her was actually a discarded sex toy.

    Replies: @Lin

    “when you think about it, it’s only fair that Vietnam return to Chinese rule etc..”
    ….

    I personally have never encountered any similar comments expressed by Chinese. If such wordings existed at any site, likely just reversed or fake propaganda by viets faking as Chinese.
    ………..
    China already has 1.39 billions people, just WhyTF needs more; besides Vietnam is only slightly better off economically per capita than india. Big burden if its part of china. Rising sea-level could submerge much of the Mekong delta

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Lin

    You have never encountered Chinese expansion talk justified by historical claims or encountered a famous national news commentary show. Okay.
    To be clear Vietnam was just an illustration, my point was the attempt to square circles with verbiage.

    Replies: @Lin

  174. @Lin
    @J.Ross

    “when you think about it, it’s only fair that Vietnam return to Chinese rule etc..”
    ....

    I personally have never encountered any similar comments expressed by Chinese. If such wordings existed at any site, likely just reversed or fake propaganda by viets faking as Chinese.
    ...........
    China already has 1.39 billions people, just WhyTF needs more; besides Vietnam is only slightly better off economically per capita than india. Big burden if its part of china. Rising sea-level could submerge much of the Mekong delta

    Replies: @J.Ross

    You have never encountered Chinese expansion talk justified by historical claims or encountered a famous national news commentary show. Okay.
    To be clear Vietnam was just an illustration, my point was the attempt to square circles with verbiage.

    • Replies: @Lin
    @J.Ross

    China wants:
    --Unification with Taiwan--the most important present issue of Chinese sovereignty
    India occupies southern Tibet which we want it back
    Also some islands in south China sea and one island occupied by Japan
    That's almost all about it.
    .........
    Sure one can find some wackos among 1.39 billion. And I'm sure the Chinese govt is very levelled head.
    ....
    China is a 3rd world country(though hopefully within 10 years we might join the lower ranks of developed countries; a sign is like many developed countries, china can afford debts without hyperflation) and we don't need more demographic burden. To give you another example, Chinese meat consumption is only 60-65 kg/capita/yr while the US figure is something like 100-110 kg. China imports massive amount of soy bean from US. Its absolutely crazy to add more foreign mouths to feed.

  175. Lin says:
    @J.Ross
    @Lin

    You have never encountered Chinese expansion talk justified by historical claims or encountered a famous national news commentary show. Okay.
    To be clear Vietnam was just an illustration, my point was the attempt to square circles with verbiage.

    Replies: @Lin

    China wants:
    –Unification with Taiwan–the most important present issue of Chinese sovereignty
    India occupies southern Tibet which we want it back
    Also some islands in south China sea and one island occupied by Japan
    That’s almost all about it.
    ………
    Sure one can find some wackos among 1.39 billion. And I’m sure the Chinese govt is very levelled head.
    ….
    China is a 3rd world country(though hopefully within 10 years we might join the lower ranks of developed countries; a sign is like many developed countries, china can afford debts without hyperflation) and we don’t need more demographic burden. To give you another example, Chinese meat consumption is only 60-65 kg/capita/yr while the US figure is something like 100-110 kg. China imports massive amount of soy bean from US. Its absolutely crazy to add more foreign mouths to feed.

  176. Anonymous[123] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon7
    “..whole host of people with high IQs who literally got sick when it came time to take a basic course in statistics.”

    My daughter just finished her MPH, and she says this is a ubiquitous problem in universities. It’s the essential problem with all of the soft science “disciplines” - the studies are crap. Their “science” is invalid.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    What is the “ubiquitous problem”?

  177. @AndrewR
    @Pericles

    I'm sure there are exceptions, but most leftists tend to side with the Palestinians over the Israelis. This boils down to the simple fact that Palestinians tend to be browner than Israelis.

    Replies: @Pericles, @ogunsiron

    (I was idly speculating on ethnicity.)

    Regarding Israel and the left, I got the impression that Israel was cozy with the Soviets and then switched sides. After that, the European left has been leery of, or even hostile to, Israel.

    Here is a brief description which mostly lays the breakup blame on the Soviets.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_and_the_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict

  178. @AndrewR
    @Pat Boyle

    No, you alleged that she didn't understand probability mass functions or interval scales. I asked for specific instances of her not understanding those things, and you responded smugly.

    Replies: @Pat Boyle

    I didn’t intend to be smug. If I came off that way, I apologize.

  179. @The Wobbly Guy
    @Pat Boyle

    If somebody can't do algebra, their IQ is probably below 115.

    I teach at a mid-lower tier Junior College in Singapore (ranked abt 11 out of 16 institutions), and every student in the school can do algebra (even the Arts/Humanities students). Looking at the overall distribution, very few of the students in my school are even 1 std deviation above average.

    Yet they can all do algebra.

    Even accounting for the higher mean in Sg (106? thereabouts), 1 std deviation above is 106+15 = 121, and students of that caliber are usually found in either better schools or in the Integrated Programmes. Those who are 2 std deviations (136) are almost exclusive to Raffles Institution and Hwa Chong.

    Replies: @Pat Boyle, @res

    I taught various computer science courses (Novell and Microsoft) to college undergraduates after I quit teaching statistics. I suspected that all these students who had taken math in high school actually had forgotten all of it. So I instituted my “Smurf Algebra Test’.

    The Smurfs were a cartoon show on morning TV that had a vaguely educational mission. It was aimed at pre-teens I think. They had an episode that was trying to teach a lesson on respecting Muslims. In the episode some Muslim Smurf has a problem which he solves using algebra. As I remember it required simultaneous equations. This little exercise was intended for children.

    I gave this problem in Smurf Algebra to at least three classes – mostly college sophomores. I never found a student who could deal with it. Most understood that it was an algebra problem but couldn’t remember how such things were solved.

    I think there’s more innumeracy in America than in Singapore.

    • Agree: Johann Ricke
  180. @anon
    @Pat Boyle

    Basic classical statistics is hard, in part, because it is stupid. NHST(Null Hypothesis Significance Testing) is simply wrongheaded for many problems. A Bayesian approach is congruent with your lying eyes.

    Not that Nancy LeTourneau isn't ignorant.

    Replies: @Pat Boyle

    OTOH teaching stat occasionally brings a look of recognition to a students eyes. This is the “Eureka” moment that teachers hope to see but seldom do.

    The Neyman-Pierson Lemma is just abstract enough that most students – I taught mostly business students – don’t really understand it. Most just learn the mechanical math procedures and never understand why those steps were created. But sometimes you can actually see that moment when comprehension occurs.

    I don’t think history teachers ever have those moments.

  181. @Stephen Paul Foster
    “Racism” should be an automatic libelous offense if made by a private citizen, an impeachable act with the loss of government pension if made by a public official. Punishment falls on the accuser unless the charge could be substantiated and confirmed by empirically verifiable evidence based on a single, legally promulgated definition of “racism” with clear, operational terms.

    For more, see: http://fosterspeak.blogspot.com/2017/07/against-anti-racism-and-hemeneutics-of.html

    Replies: @schnellandine, @ben tillman

    “Racism” should be an automatic libelous offense if made by a private citizen . . . .

    Who says it isn’t already?

  182. @The Wobbly Guy
    @Pat Boyle

    If somebody can't do algebra, their IQ is probably below 115.

    I teach at a mid-lower tier Junior College in Singapore (ranked abt 11 out of 16 institutions), and every student in the school can do algebra (even the Arts/Humanities students). Looking at the overall distribution, very few of the students in my school are even 1 std deviation above average.

    Yet they can all do algebra.

    Even accounting for the higher mean in Sg (106? thereabouts), 1 std deviation above is 106+15 = 121, and students of that caliber are usually found in either better schools or in the Integrated Programmes. Those who are 2 std deviations (136) are almost exclusive to Raffles Institution and Hwa Chong.

    Replies: @Pat Boyle, @res

    Differences in math/verbal tilt might help explain the seeming inconsistency. Having a culture that doesn’t consider “math is hard” a badge of honor probably helps as well.

  183. res says:
    @The Wobbly Guy
    @Hans Tholstrup

    The growth mindset is just a measure of conscientiousness.

    According to Jordan Peterson, it's interesting that all other personality facets (Extraversion, Neuroticism, Openness, Agreeableness, IQ) have been linked to clear biological factors, but Conscientiousness isn't. Oh, we know that it's partly heritable, but that's about it.

    Replies: @res

    It is interesting how few hits (one for Conscientiousness) are being found for personality traits even in GWAS with decent sample sizes.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5278898/

    From the first reference in that: http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2015-20360-001

    Johnson et al. (2008) also estimated weighted mean broad sense heritability coefficients for core neuroticism, extraversion, openness to experience, agreeableness, and conscientiousness based on data from different kinships. These estimates were 43, .54, .48, .49, and .47, respectively, which is somewhat higher compared to our heritability estimates of single traits. However, confidence intervals of heritability estimates from Johnson et al. (2008) and 11 single trait estimates from our study are overlapping.

  184. @CCZ
    An example of the intellectual weight of Nancy LeTourneau (Twitter: @Smartypants60):
    Apr 1

    "The lie: illegal criminals are invading our country.
    The goal of the lie: promote a white nationalist movement."

    Replies: @ogunsiron

    smartypants60 ? She surely loves to project intelligence.
    I bet she “loves data and facts”, “wants to code” and fancies herself as a “crypto-ai chyq”.

  185. @Barnard
    @Ron Unz

    She is writing for the people who literally got ill before taking stats. They find her arguments, if you can call them that, authoritative. Having your emotions validated is far more important than science to them.

    Replies: @Mishra, @Forbes, @ogunsiron

    She may be trying to get noticed by most foremost stats genius ta-nehesi coates.

  186. @Lin
    @Anonym

    I've a math degree and I have done some pretty tough courses.
    "University level statistics is hard, even for people who are good at math (e.g. engineers, physicists). "
    No. That's not true. Most universities offer one term (easier)statistics course for business and social sciences majors.
    BTW, I found most engineering and science(other than math) majors couldn't do the following question off hand:
    To Prove:
    (- 1) x (- 1) = + 1
    ...............
    A math fact all junior grade pupils learn but few college grads can prove.

    Replies: @Anonym, @Pat Boyle, @ogunsiron

    attempt 1:
    (-1) x (-1) = (-1)^2 = (0 – 1)^2 = (0*0 – 2*0*1 + 1^2) = ( 0 + 0 + 1 ) = 1

    attempt 2:
    let y a real number.
    if y * (-1) x (-1) = y then (-1) x (-1) = multiplicative identity = 1
    test if y (-1)(-1) – y = 0
    y (-1)(-1) – y = y( (-1)(-1) – 1 ) = y( -(-1) – 1) = y( (1) – 1 ) = y ( 0 ) = 0 QED ?

    I feel attempt2 relies on more basic algebra than attempt1.

  187. @AnotherDad
    @Yan Shen


    Interesting comment about the Chinese. I wonder if the reason why East Asians in general tend to be far less PC than other ethnic groups is in part because of the skew towards mathematical reasoning…
     
    I think it's definitely a factor, but i'd guess it's more like a third order factor.

    The Chinese in fact have *more* compliant personality traits than white people. (Interestingly while their IQ skew--more mathematical/spatial--is more "male" relative to whites, their personality package--more compliant, cooperative--is more "female" relative to whites.) Whites are actually more independent, less inclined to get with the program.

    The Chinese have certainly complied with really stupid ideology in the past--the Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution. They just have a much saner ideology now. (Their insane elite ideologies just killed millions of Chinese, our elite ideology is designed to kill off white people in total.)

    My take--SWAG--for why the Chinese are so much saner:
    -- lower affective empathy
    -- lack of Christian love-thy-neighbor universalism
    -- less exposure to Jewish propaganda

    (I think *not* being fluent in English and not continuously exposed to Hollywood and other American media right now, improves the survival probability of any nation.)

    Math skew of IQ would rank behind all those as a casual factor in Chinese sanity.

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @Lin, @ogunsiron

    (I think *not* being fluent in English and not continuously exposed to Hollywood and other American media right now, improves the survival probability of any nation.)

    That and mostly attending their own university is what keeps the Japanese elite Japanese in outlook.

  188. @Pat Boyle
    @Anonym

    I'm sure others have thought this thought before - but it is new to me. The unspoken notion that runs through this thread is that race-equalitarian liberals think the way they do because they are innumerate.

    I think there is something to this idea. But how to explain Lewontin?

    BTW Gould - his colleague in Marxism - was quite weak in math. Read Gould's writing on statistics - not so much wrong as just sophomoric.

    Replies: @Tulip, @ogunsiron

    Rabbi Gould himself may have been semi-innumerate and not too bright, but being really good at math is no obstacle at all to adhering to all sorts of beliefs that make no sense.

    On twitter the other day a legitimate stats prof was going on and on about the made up “problem” of “bias in machine learning”. The man is smart, but he simply accepts that if some machine learning algorithm “discriminates” against minorities, it’s because there is something wrong with the data.
    It just has to be bad data. It can’t be the the algorithms are learning correctly. That stats prof is not a stupid man. But he’s not the man who’s going to question the civil religion of antiracism.

  189. @AndrewR
    @Pericles

    I'm sure there are exceptions, but most leftists tend to side with the Palestinians over the Israelis. This boils down to the simple fact that Palestinians tend to be browner than Israelis.

    Replies: @Pericles, @ogunsiron

    Ahed Tamimi must be quite head scratcher for those people.

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