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Was Seth Rich Murdered by the Russians, the Democratic Elite, or the Democratic Base?
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The Washington DC police department currently claims a closure rate of 70% for homicides in 2016, so it’s not too surprising that the gunning down of Democratic National Committee staffer Seth Rich on the night of July 10, 2016 has yet to be solved.

Rich was shot twice in the back. Nothing was stolen from him, although an attempt may have been made to take his watch.

He survived long enough to talk to emergency responders, but what he told them, if anything, about his assailants (cops seem to believe there were two). The most obvious question for somebody to have asked the dying man was the number and race of his assailants. But I can’t find anything in the media on that. If he said he’d been attacked by two white men, that would add interest to the many conspiracy theories that have arisen since then.

If he had said he’d two blacks, that would suggest it was random.

There supposedly exists never-released surveillance video tape showing the legs of the assailants. How were they dressed: in basketball shorts and Nikes? Or were they dressed like the man in the Black Cube advertisement?

Former DNC Chair Donna Brazile writes in her new memoir:

I felt some responsibility for Seth Rich’s death. I didn’t bring him into the DNC, but I helped keep him there working on voting rights. With all I knew now about the Russians’ hacking, I could not help but wonder if they had played some part in his unsolved murder.

Besides that, racial tensions were high that summer and I worried that he was murdered for being white on the wrong side of town. [My friend] Elaine expressed her doubts about that, and I heard her.

The FBI said that they did not see any Russian fingerprints there.

So it appears the Democrats immediately came up with a conspiracy theory that the Russians did it, which is ironic …

Rich’s murder on July 10 was in the midst of a string of racist attacks on police by Black Lives Matter enthusiasts in Dallas (late July 7) and Baton Rouge (July 17), along with a number of non-lethal shootings of whites by blacks presumably inspired by President Obama’s July 7th denunciation of the police shootings of Philando Castile and Alton Sterling.

So, there would be political incentives for the DC power structure to cover up crucial details, such as the race of the attackers, of what might have been another black-on-white murder. For example, it’s possible that a dying Seth Rich told somebody that the attackers were black youths, but that has been kept hushed up from the public for the usual Coalition of the Fringes reasons.

It’s not unknown for youngish white male Democrats walking the streets of gentrifying neighborhoods to be attacked by blacks for larcenous or racist reasons.

Here’s liberal journalist Brian Beutler describing to NPR getting shot by a mugger for not handing over his cell phone in DC’s Adams-Morgan district in 2008:

BEUTLER: A friend of mine [named Matt] and I were walking around late at night on a weekday. We took a turn onto a – sort of a side street that’s poorly lit and had a history of gang violence on it. And it was in our neighborhood and I’d been up and down it, you know, hundreds of times without incident. But this time, we were approached by a couple of African-American teens, I think – both, you know, wearing hoodies and blue jeans. And they said they wanted our phones and we resisted a little bit, but not for too long before one of them pulled out a gun, handed it to his friend and shot me. I fell to the ground. They ran a way. But I got up and I thought that I was OK. And when I realized that it had been an actual gunshot…

HEADLEE: As opposed to rubber bullets.

BEUTLER: As opposed – yeah. I thought maybe this is a prank. If I fell down from what I thought was a gunshot, but then got right back up, it’s probably not a real gun, because if it was a real gun I’d be laid out. And so we decided this couldn’t have been real and we were probably in a little bit of denial, had a little bit of – a little bit too much adrenaline working against our reason. But after a few steps up the street, it was clear to me that I had been shot. I saw my shoulder bleeding. And that’s when we started running ’cause we knew there was kids around with a gun, that they didn’t get the phones that they said that they were after and they were willing to shoot people. So we started running. My friend called the ambulance.

HEADLEE: While you are running.

BEUTLER: While we were running. And we got a couple blocks before I realized that I wasn’t just suffering from a shoulder wound. There something else wrong. I got very weak and couldn’t run anymore – slumped down onto the sidewalk and just tried to stay conscious. The ambulance arrived quickly. They revived me by, you know, injecting fluid into my veins, picked up my blood pressure and got me to the hospital very quickly. The doctors told me I needed to go into surgery to have my spleen removed…

HEADLEE: …Because it had a bullet in it.

BEUTLER: It had – yeah. It had been ruptured. I had also sustained injuries to my lung, my diaphragm, my stomach, my kidney. And when I woke up, I didn’t realize how extensive the surgery they were going to do was because I thought, well, if they have to take out my spleen, that’s just one organ. People get their appendixes removed all the time without needing long hospital stays or long recuperation times. But it turns out that when you have internal damage, they basically cut me open down the abdomen and the extent of the surgery led to me being sort of out of commission for health reasons for three to six months.

Years later, Beutler’s attempted murderer had never been brought to justice.

I don’t know the surname of the Matt who was with Beutler in 2008, but in 2011 journalist Matthew Yglesias was knocked down by two blacks out Polar Bear Hunting. He wasn’t robbed, just victimized in the Knock-Out Game.

It’s worth noting that it took Yglesias two years to admit publicly that his assailants were black.

 
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  1. If he had been attacked by whites, as a good liberal Seth Rich would have reported that fact to the authorities even with his dying breath, lest negative assumptions about black violence be perpetuated.

    In her autobiography, Tina Fey says she finds it “a fun sociology litmus test” that some people assume that the stranger who slashed her face was black. Obviously, they’re racists. Of course, she doesn’t say that the slasher was or wasn’t black, which leads me to assume he was.

    • Replies: @bgates
    @Harry Baldwin

    Of course, she doesn’t say that the slasher was or wasn’t black

    Yes she does:

    Sometimes it is a fun sociology litmus test, like when my friend Ricky asked me, 'Did they ever catch the black guy that did that to you?' Hmmm. It was not a black guy, Ricky, and I never said it was.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Pericles, @Harry Baldwin, @res

    , @guest
    @Harry Baldwin

    I find it a fun sociological litmus test that she finds it a fun sociological litmus test.

    (Just think of the mind at work there. "My face was slashed by a non-black. What fun I shall have holding that fact over racists' heads!"

    , @Client 9
    @Harry Baldwin

    Speaking of female comedian's, Fran Drescher was raped by black guy at gun point.

  2. Or by the Democratic Elite using the Democratic Base:

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Anonymous

    Intersectionality !

    , @guest
    @Anonymous

    There's another episode where a family SUV is stolen by black street thugs. The father hurls racial insults, and when his wife upbraids him he says something like, "Well, who else?"

    Cut to Tony or whomever receiving the stolen goods they employ bruthas to swipe.

  3. Well, DC is still a pretty dangerous city, but how many middle-class whites were randomly murdered there that year while innocently walking the streets? I wouldn’t be surprised if Seth Rich was just about the only one.

    Julian Assange has strongly implied that Seth Rich was the source of the DNC emails that cost Hillary Clinton the presidency. So if Seth Rich died in a totally random street killing not long afterward, isn’t that just the most astonishing coincidence in all of American history?

    Consider that the leaks effectively nullified the investment of the $2 billion or so that her donors had provided, and foreclosed the flood of good jobs and appointments to her camp-followers, not to mention the oceans of future graft. Seems to me that’s a pretty good motive for murder.

    Here’s my own plausible speculation from a couple of months ago:

    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…

    https://www.unz.com/announcement/new-software-releaseopen-thread/#comment-1959442

    • Agree: Cagey Beast
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Ron Unz

    Not to mention that the Democrats have lots of "community organizers" and extensive get out the vote networks in inner cities that can be used to hire gunmen that are like run of the mill random murderers.

    , @utu
    @Ron Unz

    He was killed after the leak. What did his death prevent form happening?

    Replies: @Matthew Kelly, @Anonymous, @whorefinder, @guest, @Neoconned, @the Supreme Gentleman, @Eric Novak

    , @Matthew Kelly
    @Ron Unz

    I tend toward the conspiratorial in this case, something in line with Unz's guess.

    That said, commenter mobi on on Steve's previous post on this topic made this point:


    Isn’t Wikileaks MO that sources are anonymous, and untraceable? I believe it is.
    ...
    Assange doesn’t know if Rich was the leaker. So he’s playing up the insinuation to maximum tactical advantage, to whip up public suspicion generally against any and all Wikileaks enemies and detractors.
     
    So I'm curious if Assange would have known Rich was the leaker, or, per mobi's analysis, simply playing it up for his own purposes.
    , @Hail
    @Ron Unz

    There are 70 resolved and 65 unsolved homicides listed by DC police for 2016.

    Photographs are included for each unresolved case at mpdc.dc.gov. At most 2 of these 65 unresolved cases are "Whites," of which one is a light-skinned Hispanic arguably classifiable as White.

    (1) Sergio Verastegui, killed January 10, 2016, in Southeast, at 5:45pm on a Sunday.
    (2) Seth Rich, killed July 10, 2016, between Howard University and Capitol St., at 4:19am on a Sunday (i.e., late-night Saturday-into-Sunday).

    Sergio, age 21, was apparently U.S.-born and his father was in Northern Virginia already in the 1980s. Both Sergio and Seth were killed in or near dangerous areas.

    For further comparison, here are the other five unsolved murder victims for July 2016 (the same month as Seth Rich's murder):

    (1) John Williams III, killed July 2, 2016, in Northeast at 5:20am on a Saturday.
    (2) Antoine McCullough, killed July 2, 2016, in Southeast at 12:10am on a Saturday.
    (3) Omar Lindsay, killed July 3, 2016, in Northeast at 9:46pm on a Sunday.
    (4) Sharod Harris, killed July 15, 2016, in Southeast at 3:18pm on a Friday.
    (5) Judonne Stephens, killed July 30, 2016, in Southeast at 2:28am on a Saturday.

    Pattern of the six unresolved July 2016 murder victims (the five above plus Seth Rich): Four were killed in the small hours on the weekend, including Seth Rich.

    Replies: @res

    , @whorefinder
    @Ron Unz


    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…
     
    Rich leaves the bar at 1am and gets murdered around 4am. Something got him walking around at 4am. Where was he that 3 hour gap? Who was he talking to? Did he go home? To an after hours bar?

    My bet is he went home but suddenly got paranoid he was being followed, and started trying to find public places to hang out it. Unfortunately, nothing was open that late, so the killer cornered him in a place they thought there'd be few witnesses.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Anonymous, @Art Deco

    , @Neoconned
    @Ron Unz

    While Rich may have been killed over the leaks that's not what cost Hillary the factory states of the Midwest....AND THE ELECTION....

    Trump said he'd bring the factories back, enhance union power, and deport the Latin scabs and welfare deadbeats and scammers back to their countries of origin or their parents origin....

    We'll see if that turns out to be a lie ...

    This is the same thing as the Russian bullshit....Russia didn't throw the blue collar factory states to Trump....he won them fair and square by following Jim Carvilles advice that Hillary very ignorantly shunned.....ITS THE ECONOMY STUPID!

    Instead of lying and saying you'll bring the factories back.....as we knew she wouldn't but at least her lies could have won votes....she called them clingers and deplorables....and so they shot the dice and took a chance w the Trumpster...

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @anonymous

    , @The Alarmist
    @Ron Unz


    "It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…"
     
    There are enough dead bodies in the Clintons' past for one to reasonably apply Occam's Razor and posit that HRC herself ordered the hit after hearing how the leak took place.

    As to the hit, I could see a trusted fixer showing up on Rich's doorstep at 4 a.m and asking him to go for a walk because his flat was bugged and he wanted to talk freely ....

    , @Anonymous
    @Ron Unz

    In 2015, DC Democrat staffer, Kevin Sutherland, was 'publicly butchered' in what can only be described as a 'ritualistic slaughter' of a murder, in, of all places, a jam-packed DC Metro car.
    Much was made of the fact that absolutely none of the fellow passengers did the slightest thing to intervene, but rather spectate, dumbstruck, at this modern-day gladitorial execution, in the manner of a rather grotesque 'in flight entertainment'.

    Apparently the 5' 7" murderer, Jasper Spires' bested the 6' 4" Sutherland in combat - the 'purse' was an iPhone - in a bloody spectacle which involved disembowelling Sutherland, and the delivery of kicks to Sutherland's head which were described as 'running football-style "drop kicks", delivered with tremendous force.

    Such is everyday life in America's Capitol.

    The real mystery is that the American political class which is, literally, *all* based in DC feigns an air of indifference to this daily Liberian style horror-show, in the same manner in which a 'gentleman' feigns ignorance of the most appalling noisome flatulence.

    , @Eagle Eye
    @Ron Unz


    Consider that the [DNC] leaks effectively nullified the investment of the $2 billion or so that [Hillary's] donors had provided, ...
     
    *IF* someone else was the real leaker, that person would have a powerful motive to pin the blame on Seth Rich. With SUSPECTED leaker Rich dead, the pressure to nail the REAL leaker would evaporate.
    , @the Supreme Gentleman
    @Ron Unz


    Consider that the leaks effectively nullified the investment of the $2 billion or so that her donors had provided, and foreclosed the flood of good jobs and appointments to her camp-followers, not to mention the oceans of future graft.
     
    Really? Wasn't Clinton still ahead by a non-trivial margin in the betting markets (as per e.g. Predictwise) and polls right up until the election occurred? At the time of Seth Rich's murder (early July 2016), according to RCP, the betting odds on a Clinton victory were about 74/26.

    If a DNC staffer had ordered the murder of Seth Rich, the discovery of this likely would have completely sunk the Clinton campaign. If, as you claim, a Clinton victory would lead to an ocean of corruption and was backed by billions of dollars of funding, why would anyone in the Clinton campaign take such a risk, especially if/when it looked like they would win anyway?
  4. Here’s the discussion Beutler had with Tennessee Coates about being shot. It’s pretty entertaining watching Beutler pretty much apologizing to Coates for getting shot. Coates couldn’t have cared less about Beutler, laughed about it and seemed to suggest he had it coming.

    https://bloggingheads.tv/videos/1892

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • LOL: (((Owen)))
    • Replies: @Father O'Hara
    @anonymous

    Thanks for that. SMDH!!

    , @AndrewR
    @anonymous

    The video is not playing for me but I dug around and found an interesting, ancient pre-Disqus comment from 2008:



    I am Hispanic. I went to a predominantly black high school in New York City. My college and post-graduate social circles have been mostly white. Being ethnically ambiguous I've been able to see both ends of the 'scared white person psychology'. I've walked around black neighborhoods with white friends and have been the scared white person. In high-school, I remember, walking around the city with my group of black friends and sensing the hesitation in the part of whites as we approached - and my black friends sensed it too. Actually, they were amused by it. Even the gentlest of my black friends derived pleasure out of freaking out the white guy..... and even played it up.

    I've always wondered what affect this had them....

    My experience going to school in the "inner city" was a bit unsettling. I am fully aware that many more elements play in each of our developments than I could ever describe.... but this the narrative I've given myself in order to make sense of everything.

    Even back then, I recall sensing how my friend's pleasure in scaring white people was dangerous. And I saw a handful of my friends get progressively violent as they grew out of their 14 year bodies and into their 18 year old bodies. As we walked around the city they went from feeling comfortable skipping ahead of a white guy in line to eventually pushing and hitting people on the street for fun. Being one of "nice" guys of the group, I discouraged them as much as I could, but I only had so much pull. One time we were kicked out of a cafe we frequented and the next day I heard that a few of them returned and assaulted the owner... getting the police involved. Then a few months later, while walking around the city, we were cornered by a few dozen uniformed and undercover police officers and pinned against the wall for what we were later told resembling a group of young men who robbed a pharmacy. We had not... but for a moment I was not so sure. Eventually we were released.. I never understood what happened, but I believe the store clerk was in one of the vans and exonerated us... but things changed for me from that point on. I rarely hung out with them as a group and when we graduated and went our separate ways.

    Anyway, I went to college and lost contact with many of them... but last I heard, one of the guys was in prison for attempt of murder.

    Sadly, he was one of the ones I thought enjoyed scaring "white people" a bit too much - he was also a guy I always deemed a good, funny and smart.

    This is a long and complex situation and lots of factors play into it.. but that was how I grew up and to this day I wonder how much having an exaggerated sense of power played into the paths some of my friends took.
     

    Replies: @ic1000, @bomag, @dc.sunsets

  5. – I see your point, but the penny-ante assassination you describe seems implausible at such an hour. He was either killed randomly or by high-level pros. Considering nothing was missing (and not to mention, the high Clinton body count), I’d go with the latter.

  6. @Ron Unz
    Well, DC is still a pretty dangerous city, but how many middle-class whites were randomly murdered there that year while innocently walking the streets? I wouldn't be surprised if Seth Rich was just about the only one.

    Julian Assange has strongly implied that Seth Rich was the source of the DNC emails that cost Hillary Clinton the presidency. So if Seth Rich died in a totally random street killing not long afterward, isn't that just the most astonishing coincidence in all of American history?

    Consider that the leaks effectively nullified the investment of the $2 billion or so that her donors had provided, and foreclosed the flood of good jobs and appointments to her camp-followers, not to mention the oceans of future graft. Seems to me that's a pretty good motive for murder.

    Here's my own plausible speculation from a couple of months ago:

    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…
     
    https://www.unz.com/announcement/new-software-releaseopen-thread/#comment-1959442

    Replies: @Anonymous, @utu, @Matthew Kelly, @Hail, @whorefinder, @Neoconned, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous, @Eagle Eye, @the Supreme Gentleman

    Not to mention that the Democrats have lots of “community organizers” and extensive get out the vote networks in inner cities that can be used to hire gunmen that are like run of the mill random murderers.

  7. @Ron Unz
    Well, DC is still a pretty dangerous city, but how many middle-class whites were randomly murdered there that year while innocently walking the streets? I wouldn't be surprised if Seth Rich was just about the only one.

    Julian Assange has strongly implied that Seth Rich was the source of the DNC emails that cost Hillary Clinton the presidency. So if Seth Rich died in a totally random street killing not long afterward, isn't that just the most astonishing coincidence in all of American history?

    Consider that the leaks effectively nullified the investment of the $2 billion or so that her donors had provided, and foreclosed the flood of good jobs and appointments to her camp-followers, not to mention the oceans of future graft. Seems to me that's a pretty good motive for murder.

    Here's my own plausible speculation from a couple of months ago:

    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…
     
    https://www.unz.com/announcement/new-software-releaseopen-thread/#comment-1959442

    Replies: @Anonymous, @utu, @Matthew Kelly, @Hail, @whorefinder, @Neoconned, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous, @Eagle Eye, @the Supreme Gentleman

    He was killed after the leak. What did his death prevent form happening?

    • Replies: @Matthew Kelly
    @utu

    Maybe it was to serve as a warning to anyone who might have been entertaining the idea of leaking the Uranium One emails?

    , @Anonymous
    @utu

    One of Podesta's leaked emails had him discussing the leaks at the DNC.

    He said he wouldn't be against 'making an example of somebody' -- even if they didn't do anything wrong. It's difficult with an email to gauge the tone, and that could very well be a joke but the leaking was a source of some irritation.

    Brazile talks about the 'hacking' at the DNC, but it has been established that the Wikileaks files were taken manually by somebody in the office. Some techies forensically figured out a way to determine how long the files took to download, and there was no method of remotely downloading that quantity of files so quickly at the time. It was technologically not possible.

    Rich was probably killed by somebody at the DNC... maybe not, but it warrants an investigation (a real one)

    , @whorefinder
    @utu

    More leaks. Duh.

    No one in the public knew who the leaker was. Seth Rich, if fired, could have talked about other things he saw there---conversations that went on, emails he wasn't able to leak because he didn't have direct access, etc.

    Whistleblowing, anyone? Seth Rich could be being blamed by Hillary today for her loss, if he had lived and gotten onto TV.

    Seth Rich speaking about it would have been like Monica Lewinsky spewing about her bjs. How much would the Clintons have liked to have disappeared Monica before word got out? Matt Drudge and Linda Tripp probably saved her life.

    Replies: @guest

    , @guest
    @utu

    More leaks, to serve as an example, simple revenge. Could've been to pressure other people, or the result of a faction losing a power struggle. There are many possible motives.

    , @Neoconned
    @utu

    That was my idea too. Trump didn't win "because of....."

    He won because he took Carvilles advice and promised jobs.....he may be lying about those jobs and deporting the wetback deadbeats and bums but at least he made those Midwest blue collar types THINK HE CARED ABOUT THEM....the Bill Clinton I feel your pain thing....

    Hillary didn't even bother to lie to the Midwesterners.....she was too lazy or stupid to do what Bill would have done....

    Trump promised them shit....so they took a chance w him.....

    Replies: @AndrewR

    , @the Supreme Gentleman
    @utu

    Exactly---authorizing such an assassination would be such a huge risk for Clinton/the Democrats; even if there was only a 5% chance that the truth would be revealed it would have the potential to completely destroy their electoral chances in the 2016 cycle. What upside for Clinton/the Democrats would plausibly compensate for this massive risk?

    Nothing that commenters have mentioned seems worth taking such a gigantic gamble over. Hypothetical future leaks would be far less dangerous than credible allegations of political murder. (In any case that's sort of contradictory, because in order to be a credible threat to serve as a deterrent it would need to not look like an accident, but then if it doesn't look like an accident it makes allegations of murder seem credible. Is there really a satisfactory place on that tradeoff?) It seems extremely inopportune to take "revenge" right after the alleged crime and before the conclusion of the 2016 election.

    (And all this is presuming for the sake of argument that Rich was the source of the leaks, which doesn't seem very well substantiated to me.)

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Eric Novak
    @utu

    Testimony in court. He knew much more than the information in the Wikileaks leak.

  8. @Ron Unz
    Well, DC is still a pretty dangerous city, but how many middle-class whites were randomly murdered there that year while innocently walking the streets? I wouldn't be surprised if Seth Rich was just about the only one.

    Julian Assange has strongly implied that Seth Rich was the source of the DNC emails that cost Hillary Clinton the presidency. So if Seth Rich died in a totally random street killing not long afterward, isn't that just the most astonishing coincidence in all of American history?

    Consider that the leaks effectively nullified the investment of the $2 billion or so that her donors had provided, and foreclosed the flood of good jobs and appointments to her camp-followers, not to mention the oceans of future graft. Seems to me that's a pretty good motive for murder.

    Here's my own plausible speculation from a couple of months ago:

    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…
     
    https://www.unz.com/announcement/new-software-releaseopen-thread/#comment-1959442

    Replies: @Anonymous, @utu, @Matthew Kelly, @Hail, @whorefinder, @Neoconned, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous, @Eagle Eye, @the Supreme Gentleman

    I tend toward the conspiratorial in this case, something in line with Unz’s guess.

    That said, commenter mobi on on Steve’s previous post on this topic made this point:

    Isn’t Wikileaks MO that sources are anonymous, and untraceable? I believe it is.

    Assange doesn’t know if Rich was the leaker. So he’s playing up the insinuation to maximum tactical advantage, to whip up public suspicion generally against any and all Wikileaks enemies and detractors.

    So I’m curious if Assange would have known Rich was the leaker, or, per mobi’s analysis, simply playing it up for his own purposes.

  9. @Anonymous
    Or by the Democratic Elite using the Democratic Base:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8LGYdwserM

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @guest

    Intersectionality !

  10. It’s not unknown for youngish white male Democrats walking the streets of gentrifying neighborhoods to be attacked by blacks for larcenous or racist reasons.

    No, I’m the only true race-ist.

  11. @utu
    @Ron Unz

    He was killed after the leak. What did his death prevent form happening?

    Replies: @Matthew Kelly, @Anonymous, @whorefinder, @guest, @Neoconned, @the Supreme Gentleman, @Eric Novak

    Maybe it was to serve as a warning to anyone who might have been entertaining the idea of leaking the Uranium One emails?

  12. @Harry Baldwin
    If he had been attacked by whites, as a good liberal Seth Rich would have reported that fact to the authorities even with his dying breath, lest negative assumptions about black violence be perpetuated.

    In her autobiography, Tina Fey says she finds it "a fun sociology litmus test" that some people assume that the stranger who slashed her face was black. Obviously, they're racists. Of course, she doesn't say that the slasher was or wasn't black, which leads me to assume he was.

    Replies: @bgates, @guest, @Client 9

    Of course, she doesn’t say that the slasher was or wasn’t black

    Yes she does:

    Sometimes it is a fun sociology litmus test, like when my friend Ricky asked me, ‘Did they ever catch the black guy that did that to you?’ Hmmm. It was not a black guy, Ricky, and I never said it was.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @bgates

    Maybe it was a black woman?

    , @Pericles
    @bgates


    [Tina Fey:] ... like when my friend Ricky asked me, ‘Did they ever catch the black guy that did that to you?’ Hmmm. It was not a black guy, Ricky, and I never said it was.

     

    At this point, one starts to wonder if Ricky ever existed.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Feric Jaggar

    , @Harry Baldwin
    @bgates

    Thank you, I stand corrected on that.

    , @res
    @bgates

    That is a very strange story. Why would someone slash a five year old girl's face randomly? Any more details on the slasher or the circumstances? Near that excerpt she clearly states she is not going to talk further about it (except to virtue signal I guess).

    Replies: @Jack D

  13. Maybe it was the butler in the library with the candlestick.

  14. Let’s just assume that someone close to Hillary or acting on Hillary’s behalf did arrange Seth Rich’s murder. Just assume that for the sake of argument. What then?

    If a local vibrant was hired to do the murder, what are the chances that said local vibrant is a sophisticated hitman like the one played by God Himself, Morgan Freeman, in the movie “Nurse Betty?” Or the chances that the person is chaotic, a mess, and highly likely to get jammed up in some other murder and now figure, “hey I killed this dude who was important, in the papers, hey Lawyer get me a plea deal and I’ll spill the whole thing.”

    Arranging a murder is not a transient transaction like buying a newspaper, now there’s a low-life that owns said arranger. Sure there are lots and lots of security people sloshing around DC, but those dudes who have it together make good money, the ones who don’t are not far from the vibrant assassin mess and legal entanglements, making anything “professional” the work of millions and millions of dollars. And still the problem — another person in on the thing, maybe more than one.

    Pablo Escobar is the model of a person who employed lots and lots of assassins. He did it not just openly but brazenly, paid his killers a mere pittance, and the open-ness was itself a message — that he not the state was the law, the true master of Columbia. If Hillary had wanted to send a message, all sorts of friends were available to pull favors as Comey and Mueller did in her email investigation. IRS audits, arrests on trumped up charges — the whole point of the deep state is that they have control over the authorities and don’t have to act like some kill-crazed narco kingpin to make their point. When they are in fact the man.

    Almost certainly outside of Chelsea and Huma there is no one fanatically loyal to Hillary. Bill? He’s knee-deep in hot and cold running bimbos as usual. Can you imagine either one of those ladies arranging a vibrant hit on Rich? Can you imagine the ghetto grapevine full of gossip by some bragging dude on how he capped that White dude’s ass, and got laid the same night (hence the motive).

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    @Whiskey

    Arkancide happens. The Clintons have killers on their rolodex who got this done. They would have gotten their slippery man to end it.

    And Podesta, Debbie WS, etc. all also had reasons for wanting him dead.

    You don't have to be a fanatic or a gangbanger to do the murder. Just a known mobster-for-hire who can keep his mouth shut---like an Anthony Pellicano type, just better.

    There's some hitman somewhere driving a sports car Seth Rich's blood paid for, cackling about how Hillary paid him a fortune and still didn't win.

    Nothing got stolen in this "robbery gone wrong." This wasn't a robbery. The Wikileaks reward alone should flush out a ghetto thug gangbanger within the next year. If it doesn't, we'll have some very good confirmation that Seth Rich's murder was a planned hit.

    , @Neoconned
    @Whiskey

    So what is your take Whiskey?

    Random vibrant mugging, vibrant contract killing or high end clipping by some Mossad slash spook type?

    , @dearieme
    @Whiskey

    'Or the chances that the person is chaotic, a mess, and highly likely to get jammed up in some other murder and now figure, “hey I killed this dude who was important, in the papers, hey Lawyer get me a plea deal and I’ll spill the whole thing.”'

    Surely the tradition is that you get a second assassin to kill the first?

    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    @Whiskey


    If a local vibrant was hired to do the murder, what are the chances that said local vibrant is a sophisticated hitman like the one played by God Himself, Morgan Freeman, in the movie “Nurse Betty?” Or the chances that the person is chaotic, a mess, and highly likely to get jammed up in some other murder and now figure, “hey I killed this dude who was important, in the papers, hey Lawyer get me a plea deal and I’ll spill the whole thing.”
     
    If that's the sort of person they used for this job, then he was probably the next person they paid to have killed. His killer presumably wouldn't know that he'd just killed the guy who'd previously killed Seth Rich, so the security issue would thus be largely resolved.
  15. @bgates
    @Harry Baldwin

    Of course, she doesn’t say that the slasher was or wasn’t black

    Yes she does:

    Sometimes it is a fun sociology litmus test, like when my friend Ricky asked me, 'Did they ever catch the black guy that did that to you?' Hmmm. It was not a black guy, Ricky, and I never said it was.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Pericles, @Harry Baldwin, @res

    Maybe it was a black woman?

  16. @Ron Unz
    Well, DC is still a pretty dangerous city, but how many middle-class whites were randomly murdered there that year while innocently walking the streets? I wouldn't be surprised if Seth Rich was just about the only one.

    Julian Assange has strongly implied that Seth Rich was the source of the DNC emails that cost Hillary Clinton the presidency. So if Seth Rich died in a totally random street killing not long afterward, isn't that just the most astonishing coincidence in all of American history?

    Consider that the leaks effectively nullified the investment of the $2 billion or so that her donors had provided, and foreclosed the flood of good jobs and appointments to her camp-followers, not to mention the oceans of future graft. Seems to me that's a pretty good motive for murder.

    Here's my own plausible speculation from a couple of months ago:

    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…
     
    https://www.unz.com/announcement/new-software-releaseopen-thread/#comment-1959442

    Replies: @Anonymous, @utu, @Matthew Kelly, @Hail, @whorefinder, @Neoconned, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous, @Eagle Eye, @the Supreme Gentleman

    There are 70 resolved and 65 unsolved homicides listed by DC police for 2016.

    Photographs are included for each unresolved case at mpdc.dc.gov. At most 2 of these 65 unresolved cases are “Whites,” of which one is a light-skinned Hispanic arguably classifiable as White.

    (1) Sergio Verastegui, killed January 10, 2016, in Southeast, at 5:45pm on a Sunday.
    (2) Seth Rich, killed July 10, 2016, between Howard University and Capitol St., at 4:19am on a Sunday (i.e., late-night Saturday-into-Sunday).

    Sergio, age 21, was apparently U.S.-born and his father was in Northern Virginia already in the 1980s. Both Sergio and Seth were killed in or near dangerous areas.

    For further comparison, here are the other five unsolved murder victims for July 2016 (the same month as Seth Rich’s murder):

    (1) John Williams III, killed July 2, 2016, in Northeast at 5:20am on a Saturday.
    (2) Antoine McCullough, killed July 2, 2016, in Southeast at 12:10am on a Saturday.
    (3) Omar Lindsay, killed July 3, 2016, in Northeast at 9:46pm on a Sunday.
    (4) Sharod Harris, killed July 15, 2016, in Southeast at 3:18pm on a Friday.
    (5) Judonne Stephens, killed July 30, 2016, in Southeast at 2:28am on a Saturday.

    Pattern of the six unresolved July 2016 murder victims (the five above plus Seth Rich): Four were killed in the small hours on the weekend, including Seth Rich.

    • Replies: @res
    @Hail

    Thanks. I could not find current data, but this link says 92% of DC homicide victims in 1998-2000 were African American: https://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/mpdc/publication/attachments/homicidereport_0.pdf

    Although the data is old it has a number of breakdowns (e.g. maps, time of day, clearance rate by motive/sex/race) that might be interesting to anyone wondering how typical the Seth Rich case is.

    Replies: @Hail

  17. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @utu
    @Ron Unz

    He was killed after the leak. What did his death prevent form happening?

    Replies: @Matthew Kelly, @Anonymous, @whorefinder, @guest, @Neoconned, @the Supreme Gentleman, @Eric Novak

    One of Podesta’s leaked emails had him discussing the leaks at the DNC.

    He said he wouldn’t be against ‘making an example of somebody’ — even if they didn’t do anything wrong. It’s difficult with an email to gauge the tone, and that could very well be a joke but the leaking was a source of some irritation.

    Brazile talks about the ‘hacking’ at the DNC, but it has been established that the Wikileaks files were taken manually by somebody in the office. Some techies forensically figured out a way to determine how long the files took to download, and there was no method of remotely downloading that quantity of files so quickly at the time. It was technologically not possible.

    Rich was probably killed by somebody at the DNC… maybe not, but it warrants an investigation (a real one)

  18. @anonymous
    Here's the discussion Beutler had with Tennessee Coates about being shot. It's pretty entertaining watching Beutler pretty much apologizing to Coates for getting shot. Coates couldn't have cared less about Beutler, laughed about it and seemed to suggest he had it coming.

    https://bloggingheads.tv/videos/1892

    Replies: @Father O'Hara, @AndrewR

    Thanks for that. SMDH!!

  19. If it turns out that Harvey Weinstein put out a hit on Seth Rich, we’ll have an iSteve singularity.

    • Replies: @guest
    @Dave Pinsen

    Only if the hit was ordered on a previously-restricted golf course.

    Replies: @whorefinder

  20. @utu
    @Ron Unz

    He was killed after the leak. What did his death prevent form happening?

    Replies: @Matthew Kelly, @Anonymous, @whorefinder, @guest, @Neoconned, @the Supreme Gentleman, @Eric Novak

    More leaks. Duh.

    No one in the public knew who the leaker was. Seth Rich, if fired, could have talked about other things he saw there—conversations that went on, emails he wasn’t able to leak because he didn’t have direct access, etc.

    Whistleblowing, anyone? Seth Rich could be being blamed by Hillary today for her loss, if he had lived and gotten onto TV.

    Seth Rich speaking about it would have been like Monica Lewinsky spewing about her bjs. How much would the Clintons have liked to have disappeared Monica before word got out? Matt Drudge and Linda Tripp probably saved her life.

    • Replies: @guest
    @whorefinder

    "How much would the Clintons have liked to have disappeared Monica before word got out?"

    Was her life saved by the extreme unlikelihood of someone hanging onto a soiled dress?

    Replies: @whorefinder, @Eagle Eye

  21. @Ron Unz
    Well, DC is still a pretty dangerous city, but how many middle-class whites were randomly murdered there that year while innocently walking the streets? I wouldn't be surprised if Seth Rich was just about the only one.

    Julian Assange has strongly implied that Seth Rich was the source of the DNC emails that cost Hillary Clinton the presidency. So if Seth Rich died in a totally random street killing not long afterward, isn't that just the most astonishing coincidence in all of American history?

    Consider that the leaks effectively nullified the investment of the $2 billion or so that her donors had provided, and foreclosed the flood of good jobs and appointments to her camp-followers, not to mention the oceans of future graft. Seems to me that's a pretty good motive for murder.

    Here's my own plausible speculation from a couple of months ago:

    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…
     
    https://www.unz.com/announcement/new-software-releaseopen-thread/#comment-1959442

    Replies: @Anonymous, @utu, @Matthew Kelly, @Hail, @whorefinder, @Neoconned, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous, @Eagle Eye, @the Supreme Gentleman

    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…

    Rich leaves the bar at 1am and gets murdered around 4am. Something got him walking around at 4am. Where was he that 3 hour gap? Who was he talking to? Did he go home? To an after hours bar?

    My bet is he went home but suddenly got paranoid he was being followed, and started trying to find public places to hang out it. Unfortunately, nothing was open that late, so the killer cornered him in a place they thought there’d be few witnesses.

    • Replies: @El Dato
    @whorefinder

    Maybe Putin did the "Pokemon Go directs you to places where you can get dicked by the BLM power base" trick on Seth.

    , @Anonymous
    @whorefinder

    Your scenario requires perhaps 15 minutes to transpire; however we have three hours to account for...

    , @Art Deco
    @whorefinder

    He had cell phone reception problems, so was given to going outside. He was talking to his fiancee at the time. (No clue why he'd do that at 4:00 am; there are times in your life sufficiently long ago that they seem like they happened to somebody else).

    Rich lived in Police Service Area 501, which has had 26 homicides in the last 10 years. I think Police Service Areas have populations (as a rule) of about 10,000 or 11,000. The homicide rate there might be roughly 40% higher than the city-wide mean. Similar to the New York City average in 1990, about 1/3 lower than the Baltimore average, about 20% higher than the Philadelphia average. So, bad, but could be worse.

    I think police departments commonly withhold certain crucial details because comparing what people tell you under questioning with things you haven't told the public is useful for assessing the veracity of witnesses and the guilt or innocence of suspects in the course of interrogations, so I wouldn't assume there was necessarily a political motive in not releasing Rich's statements and in not releasing descriptions of the perpetrators.

    I do think this particular murder is quite peculiar.

  22. So can Steve make an open thread about the election?

  23. I went to college in a large city on the edge of a black neighborhood. I wasn’t a lefty then, but pretty centrist and still believing in civic nationalism, but I wasn’t stupid enough to venture into it. But the hard lefties at my school did….until the girls got harassed and the boys got threatened. By Sophmore year no one made that error.

    So Seth rich, despite being hard-left, was likely not so dumb as to be walking around a black neighborhood at 4am alone without reason after 5 years in DC, , unless he was high or panicked. DC is a much rougher town than my black area was. Only Littly Matty Yglesies would do that, and for him only to cross back to his safe apartment.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @whorefinder

    Rich was murdered about 100 yards from where he lived.

    He'd been talking to his girlfriend on the phone (she was visiting her parents in Michigan) about whether he should take the job offer he'd just gotten with Hillary's campaign which would require him to move to Brooklyn until November.

  24. @Whiskey
    Let's just assume that someone close to Hillary or acting on Hillary's behalf did arrange Seth Rich's murder. Just assume that for the sake of argument. What then?

    If a local vibrant was hired to do the murder, what are the chances that said local vibrant is a sophisticated hitman like the one played by God Himself, Morgan Freeman, in the movie "Nurse Betty?" Or the chances that the person is chaotic, a mess, and highly likely to get jammed up in some other murder and now figure, "hey I killed this dude who was important, in the papers, hey Lawyer get me a plea deal and I'll spill the whole thing."

    Arranging a murder is not a transient transaction like buying a newspaper, now there's a low-life that owns said arranger. Sure there are lots and lots of security people sloshing around DC, but those dudes who have it together make good money, the ones who don't are not far from the vibrant assassin mess and legal entanglements, making anything "professional" the work of millions and millions of dollars. And still the problem -- another person in on the thing, maybe more than one.

    Pablo Escobar is the model of a person who employed lots and lots of assassins. He did it not just openly but brazenly, paid his killers a mere pittance, and the open-ness was itself a message -- that he not the state was the law, the true master of Columbia. If Hillary had wanted to send a message, all sorts of friends were available to pull favors as Comey and Mueller did in her email investigation. IRS audits, arrests on trumped up charges -- the whole point of the deep state is that they have control over the authorities and don't have to act like some kill-crazed narco kingpin to make their point. When they are in fact the man.

    Almost certainly outside of Chelsea and Huma there is no one fanatically loyal to Hillary. Bill? He's knee-deep in hot and cold running bimbos as usual. Can you imagine either one of those ladies arranging a vibrant hit on Rich? Can you imagine the ghetto grapevine full of gossip by some bragging dude on how he capped that White dude's ass, and got laid the same night (hence the motive).

    Replies: @whorefinder, @Neoconned, @dearieme, @Kevin O'Keeffe

    Arkancide happens. The Clintons have killers on their rolodex who got this done. They would have gotten their slippery man to end it.

    And Podesta, Debbie WS, etc. all also had reasons for wanting him dead.

    You don’t have to be a fanatic or a gangbanger to do the murder. Just a known mobster-for-hire who can keep his mouth shut—like an Anthony Pellicano type, just better.

    There’s some hitman somewhere driving a sports car Seth Rich’s blood paid for, cackling about how Hillary paid him a fortune and still didn’t win.

    Nothing got stolen in this “robbery gone wrong.” This wasn’t a robbery. The Wikileaks reward alone should flush out a ghetto thug gangbanger within the next year. If it doesn’t, we’ll have some very good confirmation that Seth Rich’s murder was a planned hit.

  25. @whorefinder
    I went to college in a large city on the edge of a black neighborhood. I wasn't a lefty then, but pretty centrist and still believing in civic nationalism, but I wasn't stupid enough to venture into it. But the hard lefties at my school did....until the girls got harassed and the boys got threatened. By Sophmore year no one made that error.

    So Seth rich, despite being hard-left, was likely not so dumb as to be walking around a black neighborhood at 4am alone without reason after 5 years in DC, , unless he was high or panicked. DC is a much rougher town than my black area was. Only Littly Matty Yglesies would do that, and for him only to cross back to his safe apartment.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Rich was murdered about 100 yards from where he lived.

    He’d been talking to his girlfriend on the phone (she was visiting her parents in Michigan) about whether he should take the job offer he’d just gotten with Hillary’s campaign which would require him to move to Brooklyn until November.

  26. @bgates
    @Harry Baldwin

    Of course, she doesn’t say that the slasher was or wasn’t black

    Yes she does:

    Sometimes it is a fun sociology litmus test, like when my friend Ricky asked me, 'Did they ever catch the black guy that did that to you?' Hmmm. It was not a black guy, Ricky, and I never said it was.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Pericles, @Harry Baldwin, @res

    [Tina Fey:] … like when my friend Ricky asked me, ‘Did they ever catch the black guy that did that to you?’ Hmmm. It was not a black guy, Ricky, and I never said it was.

    At this point, one starts to wonder if Ricky ever existed.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Pericles

    Sounds like a white guy's name though, dunnit? Nuff said.

    , @Feric Jaggar
    @Pericles

    Oh, come on! Everyone knows Ricky Monahan. He's Haven's brother.

  27. @whorefinder
    @Ron Unz


    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…
     
    Rich leaves the bar at 1am and gets murdered around 4am. Something got him walking around at 4am. Where was he that 3 hour gap? Who was he talking to? Did he go home? To an after hours bar?

    My bet is he went home but suddenly got paranoid he was being followed, and started trying to find public places to hang out it. Unfortunately, nothing was open that late, so the killer cornered him in a place they thought there'd be few witnesses.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Anonymous, @Art Deco

    Maybe Putin did the “Pokemon Go directs you to places where you can get dicked by the BLM power base” trick on Seth.

  28. It took Yglesias two years to admit, or it took two years to figure out that’s what he wrote? He has the worst writing of any famous “public intellectual” I’ve ever read.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @guest

    Even worse than Tennessee Genius Coates? Where have you been hiding for the last 4 years?

    Replies: @guest

  29. @Harry Baldwin
    If he had been attacked by whites, as a good liberal Seth Rich would have reported that fact to the authorities even with his dying breath, lest negative assumptions about black violence be perpetuated.

    In her autobiography, Tina Fey says she finds it "a fun sociology litmus test" that some people assume that the stranger who slashed her face was black. Obviously, they're racists. Of course, she doesn't say that the slasher was or wasn't black, which leads me to assume he was.

    Replies: @bgates, @guest, @Client 9

    I find it a fun sociological litmus test that she finds it a fun sociological litmus test.

    (Just think of the mind at work there. “My face was slashed by a non-black. What fun I shall have holding that fact over racists’ heads!”

  30. @Anonymous
    Or by the Democratic Elite using the Democratic Base:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8LGYdwserM

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @guest

    There’s another episode where a family SUV is stolen by black street thugs. The father hurls racial insults, and when his wife upbraids him he says something like, “Well, who else?”

    Cut to Tony or whomever receiving the stolen goods they employ bruthas to swipe.

  31. @utu
    @Ron Unz

    He was killed after the leak. What did his death prevent form happening?

    Replies: @Matthew Kelly, @Anonymous, @whorefinder, @guest, @Neoconned, @the Supreme Gentleman, @Eric Novak

    More leaks, to serve as an example, simple revenge. Could’ve been to pressure other people, or the result of a faction losing a power struggle. There are many possible motives.

  32. @Ron Unz
    Well, DC is still a pretty dangerous city, but how many middle-class whites were randomly murdered there that year while innocently walking the streets? I wouldn't be surprised if Seth Rich was just about the only one.

    Julian Assange has strongly implied that Seth Rich was the source of the DNC emails that cost Hillary Clinton the presidency. So if Seth Rich died in a totally random street killing not long afterward, isn't that just the most astonishing coincidence in all of American history?

    Consider that the leaks effectively nullified the investment of the $2 billion or so that her donors had provided, and foreclosed the flood of good jobs and appointments to her camp-followers, not to mention the oceans of future graft. Seems to me that's a pretty good motive for murder.

    Here's my own plausible speculation from a couple of months ago:

    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…
     
    https://www.unz.com/announcement/new-software-releaseopen-thread/#comment-1959442

    Replies: @Anonymous, @utu, @Matthew Kelly, @Hail, @whorefinder, @Neoconned, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous, @Eagle Eye, @the Supreme Gentleman

    While Rich may have been killed over the leaks that’s not what cost Hillary the factory states of the Midwest….AND THE ELECTION….

    Trump said he’d bring the factories back, enhance union power, and deport the Latin scabs and welfare deadbeats and scammers back to their countries of origin or their parents origin….

    We’ll see if that turns out to be a lie …

    This is the same thing as the Russian bullshit….Russia didn’t throw the blue collar factory states to Trump….he won them fair and square by following Jim Carvilles advice that Hillary very ignorantly shunned…..ITS THE ECONOMY STUPID!

    Instead of lying and saying you’ll bring the factories back…..as we knew she wouldn’t but at least her lies could have won votes….she called them clingers and deplorables….and so they shot the dice and took a chance w the Trumpster…

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    @Neoconned

    You're talking about strategy and deployment of resources, but the leaked emails did keep Team Crone off of her narrative and on the defensive for several weeks, as well as airing intra-party rivalries which make working together successfully more difficult.

    You can't say that this or that is the cause where there were several contributing causes.

    Replies: @Neoconned

    , @anonymous
    @Neoconned

    The leaks may have contributed but, on the whole, I believe you're right.

  33. @Dave Pinsen
    If it turns out that Harvey Weinstein put out a hit on Seth Rich, we'll have an iSteve singularity.

    Replies: @guest

    Only if the hit was ordered on a previously-restricted golf course.

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    @guest

    By Kristen Ritter posing as a executive from an unnamed Chicago marketing firm.

  34. @whorefinder
    @utu

    More leaks. Duh.

    No one in the public knew who the leaker was. Seth Rich, if fired, could have talked about other things he saw there---conversations that went on, emails he wasn't able to leak because he didn't have direct access, etc.

    Whistleblowing, anyone? Seth Rich could be being blamed by Hillary today for her loss, if he had lived and gotten onto TV.

    Seth Rich speaking about it would have been like Monica Lewinsky spewing about her bjs. How much would the Clintons have liked to have disappeared Monica before word got out? Matt Drudge and Linda Tripp probably saved her life.

    Replies: @guest

    “How much would the Clintons have liked to have disappeared Monica before word got out?”

    Was her life saved by the extreme unlikelihood of someone hanging onto a soiled dress?

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    @guest

    How evolved was DNA testing at the time, and could it have been matched to Bubba then? I remember the OJ trial of the 1990s bringing up DNA and then being so hamfisted and vague it couldn't prove OJ did it.

    Replies: @guest

    , @Eagle Eye
    @guest


    Was [Monica's] life saved by the extreme unlikelihood of someone hanging onto a soiled dress?
     
    Remember saving the dress and recording conversations was Linda Tripp's idea. Having worked inside the Clinton & Clinton White House and no doubt having heard stories about life and death in Arkansas, Linda Tripp knew what she and Monica were up against.

    Coincidentally, Linda Tripp was also the last person to see Hillary's late lawyer and lover Vincent Foster alive before he was suicided in Fort Marcy Park. Foster had balked at the terms of a proposed "blind" trust for the Clintons' private assets. Bizarrely, the trust was set up later using papers Foster had allegedly signed while still alive.

    The point of placing Foster's body in a public park was to ensure that the Park Police rather than regular cops would have jurisdiction. No doubt there were reliable agents inside the Park Police to ensure that the case was handled without blow-back to the bosses.

    Mysteriously, there is no video of Foster leaving the White House grounds, surely one of the most secure areas in the U.S.

    The Wall Street Journal fought hard to try and get Foster autopsy documents. The WSJ's quest ultimately ended when the Supreme Court granted an injunction prohibiting the WSJ from making further requests, and also prohibiting the WSJ from disclosing the EXISTENCE OF THE INJUNCTION itself. Billy-Jeff must have had some serious compromat on a few of the robes at the time.

  35. @utu
    @Ron Unz

    He was killed after the leak. What did his death prevent form happening?

    Replies: @Matthew Kelly, @Anonymous, @whorefinder, @guest, @Neoconned, @the Supreme Gentleman, @Eric Novak

    That was my idea too. Trump didn’t win “because of…..”

    He won because he took Carvilles advice and promised jobs…..he may be lying about those jobs and deporting the wetback deadbeats and bums but at least he made those Midwest blue collar types THINK HE CARED ABOUT THEM….the Bill Clinton I feel your pain thing….

    Hillary didn’t even bother to lie to the Midwesterners…..she was too lazy or stupid to do what Bill would have done….

    Trump promised them shit….so they took a chance w him…..

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Neoconned

    Supposedly Bill tried very hard to convince Hillary to at least pretend to care about working class people who didn't fall into any of the officially-designated Oppressed Victim groups, but to no avail.

  36. @Whiskey
    Let's just assume that someone close to Hillary or acting on Hillary's behalf did arrange Seth Rich's murder. Just assume that for the sake of argument. What then?

    If a local vibrant was hired to do the murder, what are the chances that said local vibrant is a sophisticated hitman like the one played by God Himself, Morgan Freeman, in the movie "Nurse Betty?" Or the chances that the person is chaotic, a mess, and highly likely to get jammed up in some other murder and now figure, "hey I killed this dude who was important, in the papers, hey Lawyer get me a plea deal and I'll spill the whole thing."

    Arranging a murder is not a transient transaction like buying a newspaper, now there's a low-life that owns said arranger. Sure there are lots and lots of security people sloshing around DC, but those dudes who have it together make good money, the ones who don't are not far from the vibrant assassin mess and legal entanglements, making anything "professional" the work of millions and millions of dollars. And still the problem -- another person in on the thing, maybe more than one.

    Pablo Escobar is the model of a person who employed lots and lots of assassins. He did it not just openly but brazenly, paid his killers a mere pittance, and the open-ness was itself a message -- that he not the state was the law, the true master of Columbia. If Hillary had wanted to send a message, all sorts of friends were available to pull favors as Comey and Mueller did in her email investigation. IRS audits, arrests on trumped up charges -- the whole point of the deep state is that they have control over the authorities and don't have to act like some kill-crazed narco kingpin to make their point. When they are in fact the man.

    Almost certainly outside of Chelsea and Huma there is no one fanatically loyal to Hillary. Bill? He's knee-deep in hot and cold running bimbos as usual. Can you imagine either one of those ladies arranging a vibrant hit on Rich? Can you imagine the ghetto grapevine full of gossip by some bragging dude on how he capped that White dude's ass, and got laid the same night (hence the motive).

    Replies: @whorefinder, @Neoconned, @dearieme, @Kevin O'Keeffe

    So what is your take Whiskey?

    Random vibrant mugging, vibrant contract killing or high end clipping by some Mossad slash spook type?

  37. @Pericles
    @bgates


    [Tina Fey:] ... like when my friend Ricky asked me, ‘Did they ever catch the black guy that did that to you?’ Hmmm. It was not a black guy, Ricky, and I never said it was.

     

    At this point, one starts to wonder if Ricky ever existed.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Feric Jaggar

    Sounds like a white guy’s name though, dunnit? Nuff said.

  38. Was Seth Rich Murdered by the Russians, the Democratic Elite, or the Democratic Base?

    LOL. In more conspiracy news:

    The founder of the opposition research firm behind the Steele dossier met with the Russian attorney who attended the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting before and after the controversial conclave, Fox News is reporting …

    Glenn Simpson, a founding partner of Fusion GPS, was with Russian attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya just hours before she attended the June 9, 2016 Trump Tower session. Simpson, a former Wall Street Journal reporter, was also with Veselnitskaya after the meeting. Steele’s first dossier memo was written just 11 days after the meeting, which is currently being scrutinized by Special Counsel Robert Mueller. Among the document’s many claims is that the Kremlin had been feeding intelligence to Donald Trump. That intelligence allegedly included damaging material on Hillary Clinton.

    IOW the Trump Jr. “Russian collusion” meeting was a total setup, joined at the hip with the phony “Dossier.”

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/07/fusion-gps-founder-met-with-russian-at-center-of-trump-tower-meeting/

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/11/07/fusion-gps-official-met-with-russian-operative-before-and-after-trump-jr-sit-down.html

  39. @whorefinder
    @Ron Unz


    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…
     
    Rich leaves the bar at 1am and gets murdered around 4am. Something got him walking around at 4am. Where was he that 3 hour gap? Who was he talking to? Did he go home? To an after hours bar?

    My bet is he went home but suddenly got paranoid he was being followed, and started trying to find public places to hang out it. Unfortunately, nothing was open that late, so the killer cornered him in a place they thought there'd be few witnesses.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Anonymous, @Art Deco

    Your scenario requires perhaps 15 minutes to transpire; however we have three hours to account for…

  40. @anonymous
    Here's the discussion Beutler had with Tennessee Coates about being shot. It's pretty entertaining watching Beutler pretty much apologizing to Coates for getting shot. Coates couldn't have cared less about Beutler, laughed about it and seemed to suggest he had it coming.

    https://bloggingheads.tv/videos/1892

    Replies: @Father O'Hara, @AndrewR

    The video is not playing for me but I dug around and found an interesting, ancient pre-Disqus comment from 2008:

    I am Hispanic. I went to a predominantly black high school in New York City. My college and post-graduate social circles have been mostly white. Being ethnically ambiguous I’ve been able to see both ends of the ‘scared white person psychology’. I’ve walked around black neighborhoods with white friends and have been the scared white person. In high-school, I remember, walking around the city with my group of black friends and sensing the hesitation in the part of whites as we approached – and my black friends sensed it too. Actually, they were amused by it. Even the gentlest of my black friends derived pleasure out of freaking out the white guy….. and even played it up.

    I’ve always wondered what affect this had them….

    My experience going to school in the “inner city” was a bit unsettling. I am fully aware that many more elements play in each of our developments than I could ever describe…. but this the narrative I’ve given myself in order to make sense of everything.

    Even back then, I recall sensing how my friend’s pleasure in scaring white people was dangerous. And I saw a handful of my friends get progressively violent as they grew out of their 14 year bodies and into their 18 year old bodies. As we walked around the city they went from feeling comfortable skipping ahead of a white guy in line to eventually pushing and hitting people on the street for fun. Being one of “nice” guys of the group, I discouraged them as much as I could, but I only had so much pull. One time we were kicked out of a cafe we frequented and the next day I heard that a few of them returned and assaulted the owner… getting the police involved. Then a few months later, while walking around the city, we were cornered by a few dozen uniformed and undercover police officers and pinned against the wall for what we were later told resembling a group of young men who robbed a pharmacy. We had not… but for a moment I was not so sure. Eventually we were released.. I never understood what happened, but I believe the store clerk was in one of the vans and exonerated us… but things changed for me from that point on. I rarely hung out with them as a group and when we graduated and went our separate ways.

    Anyway, I went to college and lost contact with many of them… but last I heard, one of the guys was in prison for attempt of murder.

    Sadly, he was one of the ones I thought enjoyed scaring “white people” a bit too much – he was also a guy I always deemed a good, funny and smart.

    This is a long and complex situation and lots of factors play into it.. but that was how I grew up and to this day I wonder how much having an exaggerated sense of power played into the paths some of my friends took.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    @AndrewR

    Insightful comment, thanks. Assuming pseudonymous-you is being truthful, of course ;-)
    [Edit: is that *your* Disqus comment? Guess not...]

    Replies: @AndrewR

    , @bomag
    @AndrewR

    Interesting comment. It's the kind of racism that degrades public life.

    , @dc.sunsets
    @AndrewR

    Two words for people like this:

    "Hollow."
    "Points."

  41. @Neoconned
    @utu

    That was my idea too. Trump didn't win "because of....."

    He won because he took Carvilles advice and promised jobs.....he may be lying about those jobs and deporting the wetback deadbeats and bums but at least he made those Midwest blue collar types THINK HE CARED ABOUT THEM....the Bill Clinton I feel your pain thing....

    Hillary didn't even bother to lie to the Midwesterners.....she was too lazy or stupid to do what Bill would have done....

    Trump promised them shit....so they took a chance w him.....

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Supposedly Bill tried very hard to convince Hillary to at least pretend to care about working class people who didn’t fall into any of the officially-designated Oppressed Victim groups, but to no avail.

  42. For example, it’s possible that a dying Seth Rich told somebody that the attackers were black youths, but that has been kept hushed up from the public for the usual Coalition of the Fringes reasons.

    DC is no longer just a black/white racial dynamic, the hispanic population has skyrocketed in recent years. MS-13 is big in the DC area. Much of the membership of the service employee unions in the DC area that are a part of the Democrat political apparatus is hispanic.

    It’s possible that Seth Rich was approached by a couple of, say, Salvadorans and because they were not black and relatively small physically he was not alarmed at first.

  43. @Ron Unz
    Well, DC is still a pretty dangerous city, but how many middle-class whites were randomly murdered there that year while innocently walking the streets? I wouldn't be surprised if Seth Rich was just about the only one.

    Julian Assange has strongly implied that Seth Rich was the source of the DNC emails that cost Hillary Clinton the presidency. So if Seth Rich died in a totally random street killing not long afterward, isn't that just the most astonishing coincidence in all of American history?

    Consider that the leaks effectively nullified the investment of the $2 billion or so that her donors had provided, and foreclosed the flood of good jobs and appointments to her camp-followers, not to mention the oceans of future graft. Seems to me that's a pretty good motive for murder.

    Here's my own plausible speculation from a couple of months ago:

    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…
     
    https://www.unz.com/announcement/new-software-releaseopen-thread/#comment-1959442

    Replies: @Anonymous, @utu, @Matthew Kelly, @Hail, @whorefinder, @Neoconned, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous, @Eagle Eye, @the Supreme Gentleman

    “It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…”

    There are enough dead bodies in the Clintons’ past for one to reasonably apply Occam’s Razor and posit that HRC herself ordered the hit after hearing how the leak took place.

    As to the hit, I could see a trusted fixer showing up on Rich’s doorstep at 4 a.m and asking him to go for a walk because his flat was bugged and he wanted to talk freely ….

  44. @bgates
    @Harry Baldwin

    Of course, she doesn’t say that the slasher was or wasn’t black

    Yes she does:

    Sometimes it is a fun sociology litmus test, like when my friend Ricky asked me, 'Did they ever catch the black guy that did that to you?' Hmmm. It was not a black guy, Ricky, and I never said it was.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Pericles, @Harry Baldwin, @res

    Thank you, I stand corrected on that.

  45. @AndrewR
    @anonymous

    The video is not playing for me but I dug around and found an interesting, ancient pre-Disqus comment from 2008:



    I am Hispanic. I went to a predominantly black high school in New York City. My college and post-graduate social circles have been mostly white. Being ethnically ambiguous I've been able to see both ends of the 'scared white person psychology'. I've walked around black neighborhoods with white friends and have been the scared white person. In high-school, I remember, walking around the city with my group of black friends and sensing the hesitation in the part of whites as we approached - and my black friends sensed it too. Actually, they were amused by it. Even the gentlest of my black friends derived pleasure out of freaking out the white guy..... and even played it up.

    I've always wondered what affect this had them....

    My experience going to school in the "inner city" was a bit unsettling. I am fully aware that many more elements play in each of our developments than I could ever describe.... but this the narrative I've given myself in order to make sense of everything.

    Even back then, I recall sensing how my friend's pleasure in scaring white people was dangerous. And I saw a handful of my friends get progressively violent as they grew out of their 14 year bodies and into their 18 year old bodies. As we walked around the city they went from feeling comfortable skipping ahead of a white guy in line to eventually pushing and hitting people on the street for fun. Being one of "nice" guys of the group, I discouraged them as much as I could, but I only had so much pull. One time we were kicked out of a cafe we frequented and the next day I heard that a few of them returned and assaulted the owner... getting the police involved. Then a few months later, while walking around the city, we were cornered by a few dozen uniformed and undercover police officers and pinned against the wall for what we were later told resembling a group of young men who robbed a pharmacy. We had not... but for a moment I was not so sure. Eventually we were released.. I never understood what happened, but I believe the store clerk was in one of the vans and exonerated us... but things changed for me from that point on. I rarely hung out with them as a group and when we graduated and went our separate ways.

    Anyway, I went to college and lost contact with many of them... but last I heard, one of the guys was in prison for attempt of murder.

    Sadly, he was one of the ones I thought enjoyed scaring "white people" a bit too much - he was also a guy I always deemed a good, funny and smart.

    This is a long and complex situation and lots of factors play into it.. but that was how I grew up and to this day I wonder how much having an exaggerated sense of power played into the paths some of my friends took.
     

    Replies: @ic1000, @bomag, @dc.sunsets

    Insightful comment, thanks. Assuming pseudonymous-you is being truthful, of course 😉
    [Edit: is that *your* Disqus comment? Guess not…]

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @ic1000

    Definitely not *my* comment and I don't know why you would have thought it was. It was a reply to the video which I found insightful and relevant. And there is no apparent reason whatsoever to think that the person who wrote that comment was not being truthful.

  46. @Whiskey
    Let's just assume that someone close to Hillary or acting on Hillary's behalf did arrange Seth Rich's murder. Just assume that for the sake of argument. What then?

    If a local vibrant was hired to do the murder, what are the chances that said local vibrant is a sophisticated hitman like the one played by God Himself, Morgan Freeman, in the movie "Nurse Betty?" Or the chances that the person is chaotic, a mess, and highly likely to get jammed up in some other murder and now figure, "hey I killed this dude who was important, in the papers, hey Lawyer get me a plea deal and I'll spill the whole thing."

    Arranging a murder is not a transient transaction like buying a newspaper, now there's a low-life that owns said arranger. Sure there are lots and lots of security people sloshing around DC, but those dudes who have it together make good money, the ones who don't are not far from the vibrant assassin mess and legal entanglements, making anything "professional" the work of millions and millions of dollars. And still the problem -- another person in on the thing, maybe more than one.

    Pablo Escobar is the model of a person who employed lots and lots of assassins. He did it not just openly but brazenly, paid his killers a mere pittance, and the open-ness was itself a message -- that he not the state was the law, the true master of Columbia. If Hillary had wanted to send a message, all sorts of friends were available to pull favors as Comey and Mueller did in her email investigation. IRS audits, arrests on trumped up charges -- the whole point of the deep state is that they have control over the authorities and don't have to act like some kill-crazed narco kingpin to make their point. When they are in fact the man.

    Almost certainly outside of Chelsea and Huma there is no one fanatically loyal to Hillary. Bill? He's knee-deep in hot and cold running bimbos as usual. Can you imagine either one of those ladies arranging a vibrant hit on Rich? Can you imagine the ghetto grapevine full of gossip by some bragging dude on how he capped that White dude's ass, and got laid the same night (hence the motive).

    Replies: @whorefinder, @Neoconned, @dearieme, @Kevin O'Keeffe

    ‘Or the chances that the person is chaotic, a mess, and highly likely to get jammed up in some other murder and now figure, “hey I killed this dude who was important, in the papers, hey Lawyer get me a plea deal and I’ll spill the whole thing.”’

    Surely the tradition is that you get a second assassin to kill the first?

  47. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz
    Well, DC is still a pretty dangerous city, but how many middle-class whites were randomly murdered there that year while innocently walking the streets? I wouldn't be surprised if Seth Rich was just about the only one.

    Julian Assange has strongly implied that Seth Rich was the source of the DNC emails that cost Hillary Clinton the presidency. So if Seth Rich died in a totally random street killing not long afterward, isn't that just the most astonishing coincidence in all of American history?

    Consider that the leaks effectively nullified the investment of the $2 billion or so that her donors had provided, and foreclosed the flood of good jobs and appointments to her camp-followers, not to mention the oceans of future graft. Seems to me that's a pretty good motive for murder.

    Here's my own plausible speculation from a couple of months ago:

    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…
     
    https://www.unz.com/announcement/new-software-releaseopen-thread/#comment-1959442

    Replies: @Anonymous, @utu, @Matthew Kelly, @Hail, @whorefinder, @Neoconned, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous, @Eagle Eye, @the Supreme Gentleman

    In 2015, DC Democrat staffer, Kevin Sutherland, was ‘publicly butchered’ in what can only be described as a ‘ritualistic slaughter’ of a murder, in, of all places, a jam-packed DC Metro car.
    Much was made of the fact that absolutely none of the fellow passengers did the slightest thing to intervene, but rather spectate, dumbstruck, at this modern-day gladitorial execution, in the manner of a rather grotesque ‘in flight entertainment’.

    Apparently the 5′ 7″ murderer, Jasper Spires’ bested the 6′ 4″ Sutherland in combat – the ‘purse’ was an iPhone – in a bloody spectacle which involved disembowelling Sutherland, and the delivery of kicks to Sutherland’s head which were described as ‘running football-style “drop kicks”, delivered with tremendous force.

    Such is everyday life in America’s Capitol.

    The real mystery is that the American political class which is, literally, *all* based in DC feigns an air of indifference to this daily Liberian style horror-show, in the same manner in which a ‘gentleman’ feigns ignorance of the most appalling noisome flatulence.

  48. @ic1000
    @AndrewR

    Insightful comment, thanks. Assuming pseudonymous-you is being truthful, of course ;-)
    [Edit: is that *your* Disqus comment? Guess not...]

    Replies: @AndrewR

    Definitely not *my* comment and I don’t know why you would have thought it was. It was a reply to the video which I found insightful and relevant. And there is no apparent reason whatsoever to think that the person who wrote that comment was not being truthful.

  49. The problem with “good whites” is that they hate “bad whites” so much that they are willing to walk over the dead bodies of innocent victims of non white killers just to prove an ideological point. Anyways, Rob Astorino(R) lost his re-election bid as Westchester County executive. WC is 50% white and slipping…

  50. @guest
    It took Yglesias two years to admit, or it took two years to figure out that's what he wrote? He has the worst writing of any famous "public intellectual" I've ever read.

    Replies: @BB753

    Even worse than Tennessee Genius Coates? Where have you been hiding for the last 4 years?

    • Replies: @guest
    @BB753

    Tennessee Coates' writing is superficial and silly, with baleful arguments. But at least you know what he's saying.

    Not so Yglesias. He's all but indecipherable much of the time, and when I can understand what he's saying it's invariably expressed in the most annoying fashion possible.

  51. @Pericles
    @bgates


    [Tina Fey:] ... like when my friend Ricky asked me, ‘Did they ever catch the black guy that did that to you?’ Hmmm. It was not a black guy, Ricky, and I never said it was.

     

    At this point, one starts to wonder if Ricky ever existed.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Feric Jaggar

    Oh, come on! Everyone knows Ricky Monahan. He’s Haven’s brother.

  52. @Harry Baldwin
    If he had been attacked by whites, as a good liberal Seth Rich would have reported that fact to the authorities even with his dying breath, lest negative assumptions about black violence be perpetuated.

    In her autobiography, Tina Fey says she finds it "a fun sociology litmus test" that some people assume that the stranger who slashed her face was black. Obviously, they're racists. Of course, she doesn't say that the slasher was or wasn't black, which leads me to assume he was.

    Replies: @bgates, @guest, @Client 9

    Speaking of female comedian’s, Fran Drescher was raped by black guy at gun point.

  53. It is interesting that when it comes to conspiracies that many on the right employ the opposite of Occam’s razor: the more convoluted the theory is, the better chance it has if being true.

    And more counter-intuitive “evidence” which is red meat for the conspiracy personality: if Rich was killed by vibrants why didn’t they steal his stuff?

  54. @AndrewR
    @anonymous

    The video is not playing for me but I dug around and found an interesting, ancient pre-Disqus comment from 2008:



    I am Hispanic. I went to a predominantly black high school in New York City. My college and post-graduate social circles have been mostly white. Being ethnically ambiguous I've been able to see both ends of the 'scared white person psychology'. I've walked around black neighborhoods with white friends and have been the scared white person. In high-school, I remember, walking around the city with my group of black friends and sensing the hesitation in the part of whites as we approached - and my black friends sensed it too. Actually, they were amused by it. Even the gentlest of my black friends derived pleasure out of freaking out the white guy..... and even played it up.

    I've always wondered what affect this had them....

    My experience going to school in the "inner city" was a bit unsettling. I am fully aware that many more elements play in each of our developments than I could ever describe.... but this the narrative I've given myself in order to make sense of everything.

    Even back then, I recall sensing how my friend's pleasure in scaring white people was dangerous. And I saw a handful of my friends get progressively violent as they grew out of their 14 year bodies and into their 18 year old bodies. As we walked around the city they went from feeling comfortable skipping ahead of a white guy in line to eventually pushing and hitting people on the street for fun. Being one of "nice" guys of the group, I discouraged them as much as I could, but I only had so much pull. One time we were kicked out of a cafe we frequented and the next day I heard that a few of them returned and assaulted the owner... getting the police involved. Then a few months later, while walking around the city, we were cornered by a few dozen uniformed and undercover police officers and pinned against the wall for what we were later told resembling a group of young men who robbed a pharmacy. We had not... but for a moment I was not so sure. Eventually we were released.. I never understood what happened, but I believe the store clerk was in one of the vans and exonerated us... but things changed for me from that point on. I rarely hung out with them as a group and when we graduated and went our separate ways.

    Anyway, I went to college and lost contact with many of them... but last I heard, one of the guys was in prison for attempt of murder.

    Sadly, he was one of the ones I thought enjoyed scaring "white people" a bit too much - he was also a guy I always deemed a good, funny and smart.

    This is a long and complex situation and lots of factors play into it.. but that was how I grew up and to this day I wonder how much having an exaggerated sense of power played into the paths some of my friends took.
     

    Replies: @ic1000, @bomag, @dc.sunsets

    Interesting comment. It’s the kind of racism that degrades public life.

  55. Liberalism is the suicide of the West. A white Liberal would much rather be known as a pedophile than as someone who talks about black violent criminality.

  56. @guest
    @Dave Pinsen

    Only if the hit was ordered on a previously-restricted golf course.

    Replies: @whorefinder

    By Kristen Ritter posing as a executive from an unnamed Chicago marketing firm.

  57. @guest
    @whorefinder

    "How much would the Clintons have liked to have disappeared Monica before word got out?"

    Was her life saved by the extreme unlikelihood of someone hanging onto a soiled dress?

    Replies: @whorefinder, @Eagle Eye

    How evolved was DNA testing at the time, and could it have been matched to Bubba then? I remember the OJ trial of the 1990s bringing up DNA and then being so hamfisted and vague it couldn’t prove OJ did it.

    • Replies: @guest
    @whorefinder

    "being so hamfisted and vague it couldn't prove OJ did it"

    To the satisfaction of a bunch of black women who hated the victim.

    It's not a matter of Lewinsky' dress proving something beyond a reasonable doubt. They care about public relations. It was enough to get him impeached, which is a political, not legal, process.

    Replies: @whorefinder

  58. @AndrewR
    @anonymous

    The video is not playing for me but I dug around and found an interesting, ancient pre-Disqus comment from 2008:



    I am Hispanic. I went to a predominantly black high school in New York City. My college and post-graduate social circles have been mostly white. Being ethnically ambiguous I've been able to see both ends of the 'scared white person psychology'. I've walked around black neighborhoods with white friends and have been the scared white person. In high-school, I remember, walking around the city with my group of black friends and sensing the hesitation in the part of whites as we approached - and my black friends sensed it too. Actually, they were amused by it. Even the gentlest of my black friends derived pleasure out of freaking out the white guy..... and even played it up.

    I've always wondered what affect this had them....

    My experience going to school in the "inner city" was a bit unsettling. I am fully aware that many more elements play in each of our developments than I could ever describe.... but this the narrative I've given myself in order to make sense of everything.

    Even back then, I recall sensing how my friend's pleasure in scaring white people was dangerous. And I saw a handful of my friends get progressively violent as they grew out of their 14 year bodies and into their 18 year old bodies. As we walked around the city they went from feeling comfortable skipping ahead of a white guy in line to eventually pushing and hitting people on the street for fun. Being one of "nice" guys of the group, I discouraged them as much as I could, but I only had so much pull. One time we were kicked out of a cafe we frequented and the next day I heard that a few of them returned and assaulted the owner... getting the police involved. Then a few months later, while walking around the city, we were cornered by a few dozen uniformed and undercover police officers and pinned against the wall for what we were later told resembling a group of young men who robbed a pharmacy. We had not... but for a moment I was not so sure. Eventually we were released.. I never understood what happened, but I believe the store clerk was in one of the vans and exonerated us... but things changed for me from that point on. I rarely hung out with them as a group and when we graduated and went our separate ways.

    Anyway, I went to college and lost contact with many of them... but last I heard, one of the guys was in prison for attempt of murder.

    Sadly, he was one of the ones I thought enjoyed scaring "white people" a bit too much - he was also a guy I always deemed a good, funny and smart.

    This is a long and complex situation and lots of factors play into it.. but that was how I grew up and to this day I wonder how much having an exaggerated sense of power played into the paths some of my friends took.
     

    Replies: @ic1000, @bomag, @dc.sunsets

    Two words for people like this:

    “Hollow.”
    “Points.”

  59. @Neoconned
    @Ron Unz

    While Rich may have been killed over the leaks that's not what cost Hillary the factory states of the Midwest....AND THE ELECTION....

    Trump said he'd bring the factories back, enhance union power, and deport the Latin scabs and welfare deadbeats and scammers back to their countries of origin or their parents origin....

    We'll see if that turns out to be a lie ...

    This is the same thing as the Russian bullshit....Russia didn't throw the blue collar factory states to Trump....he won them fair and square by following Jim Carvilles advice that Hillary very ignorantly shunned.....ITS THE ECONOMY STUPID!

    Instead of lying and saying you'll bring the factories back.....as we knew she wouldn't but at least her lies could have won votes....she called them clingers and deplorables....and so they shot the dice and took a chance w the Trumpster...

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @anonymous

    You’re talking about strategy and deployment of resources, but the leaked emails did keep Team Crone off of her narrative and on the defensive for several weeks, as well as airing intra-party rivalries which make working together successfully more difficult.

    You can’t say that this or that is the cause where there were several contributing causes.

    • Replies: @Neoconned
    @Alec Leamas

    I've met a handful of ppl my entire life who care about foreign policy or this or that.......it always goes back to jobs....

    I just don't buy that narrative from the media one iota....

    Hillary didn't say a single word to unions this time. She didn't appeal to the Midwest. Trump on the other hand did a whirlwind campaign in this region and literally worked for every vote he earned
    ....

  60. @bgates
    @Harry Baldwin

    Of course, she doesn’t say that the slasher was or wasn’t black

    Yes she does:

    Sometimes it is a fun sociology litmus test, like when my friend Ricky asked me, 'Did they ever catch the black guy that did that to you?' Hmmm. It was not a black guy, Ricky, and I never said it was.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Pericles, @Harry Baldwin, @res

    That is a very strange story. Why would someone slash a five year old girl’s face randomly? Any more details on the slasher or the circumstances? Near that excerpt she clearly states she is not going to talk further about it (except to virtue signal I guess).

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @res

    From what it is known, it was a random attack just as you describe. She was playing in her backyard in Upper Darby, PA (in the 1970s a safe place), a stranger approached and slashed her face and that was it. These cases can be very hard to solve because there is nothing that connects the attacker to the victim. The attacker disappears and is never seen again. I would have to guess just some crazy guy. Who knows what motivates crazy people?

    In other circumstances (e.g. if Fey's father had been involved in some shady business) then it might have been to send a message to the father, but Fey's father was a writer who worked in the development (euphemism for fundraising) offices of Phila. hospitals and universities - he was the cleanest guy you could imagine.

  61. @Hail
    @Ron Unz

    There are 70 resolved and 65 unsolved homicides listed by DC police for 2016.

    Photographs are included for each unresolved case at mpdc.dc.gov. At most 2 of these 65 unresolved cases are "Whites," of which one is a light-skinned Hispanic arguably classifiable as White.

    (1) Sergio Verastegui, killed January 10, 2016, in Southeast, at 5:45pm on a Sunday.
    (2) Seth Rich, killed July 10, 2016, between Howard University and Capitol St., at 4:19am on a Sunday (i.e., late-night Saturday-into-Sunday).

    Sergio, age 21, was apparently U.S.-born and his father was in Northern Virginia already in the 1980s. Both Sergio and Seth were killed in or near dangerous areas.

    For further comparison, here are the other five unsolved murder victims for July 2016 (the same month as Seth Rich's murder):

    (1) John Williams III, killed July 2, 2016, in Northeast at 5:20am on a Saturday.
    (2) Antoine McCullough, killed July 2, 2016, in Southeast at 12:10am on a Saturday.
    (3) Omar Lindsay, killed July 3, 2016, in Northeast at 9:46pm on a Sunday.
    (4) Sharod Harris, killed July 15, 2016, in Southeast at 3:18pm on a Friday.
    (5) Judonne Stephens, killed July 30, 2016, in Southeast at 2:28am on a Saturday.

    Pattern of the six unresolved July 2016 murder victims (the five above plus Seth Rich): Four were killed in the small hours on the weekend, including Seth Rich.

    Replies: @res

    Thanks. I could not find current data, but this link says 92% of DC homicide victims in 1998-2000 were African American: https://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/mpdc/publication/attachments/homicidereport_0.pdf

    Although the data is old it has a number of breakdowns (e.g. maps, time of day, clearance rate by motive/sex/race) that might be interesting to anyone wondering how typical the Seth Rich case is.

    • Replies: @Hail
    @res


    92% of DC homicide victims in 1998-2000 were African American:
     
    If that % holds for 2016 (unlikely, as DC is much less Black today than in those years), then 11 of the 135 murder victims in 2016 were non-Blacks, Seth Rich and 10 others. If murder victims declined to 80-85% Black by 2016, then 20 to 27 were non-Black. If at most half the non-Black murder victims were White in this scenario, that makes one White murder victim in DC per month in 2016 at most. I'd say this one-per-month is the true number in rough terms. One per month is, of course, very low, considering hundreds of thousands are in the city, living and/or working-commuting, daily...

    I note that if Seth Rich was killed by a BLM-motivated street attack -- perhaps not originally an attempted murder but a confrontation that went wrong, or perhaps an all-on, deliberate murder of a White racist by one or more BLMers -- it would fit with the pattern of BLM violence in that very month, July 2016. Seth Rich was killed days after the New Orleans attack that bagged five police before the BLM shooter was taken out. The Texas attack was some days after Seth Rich. Donna Brazile implies that this (BLM, race-motivated attack) is the most likely explanation.

    As for possible examples of other anti-White murders in DC during the BLM Era. I would submit to you the massacre of the wealthy White family in their mansion in May 2015; four killed including the son, age 10, by possibly-BLM-motivated terrorist Daron Dylan Wint. Possibly comparable to the Seth Rich case in terms of likely perp-victim relation (Black-White, no motive):


    Shortly after 1 pm, neighbors saw smoke pouring from the windows. When firefighters responded, they discovered a horrific scene: the remains of Amy, Savvas, Philip, and housekeeper Veralicia Figueroa in upstairs bedrooms. Autopsies found that the three adults had died of “blunt force and sharp trauma” and the boy of “thermal and sharp force injuries.”

    TV crews swarmed the crime scene. DC mayor Muriel Bowser called the incident “an act of evil.” Family members tried hurriedly to alert the Savopouloses’ teenage daughters, who were out of town at school, before they saw the headlines. Investigators believed that the victims had been held for 16 hours, bound, strangled, and beaten.
     

    It got its own Wiki entry somebody entitled 2015 Washington, D.C. Mass Killing.

    Trying to conjure a motive, some neighbors wondered if Savopoulos had run afoul of someone who then ordered a hit. [...] [But] [p]rofessionals don’t spend the night, order pizza, and allow their victims to communicate with the outside world. They also don’t botch their efforts to torch the house: In this case, the fire was started upstairs in the bedrooms; whoever lit it left matches and gasoline on the staircase, according to police reports.
     
  62. Occam’s Butterknife suggests that a white guy outdoors in DC at 4 am with his cellphone is either looking for drugs, or gay sex, or both. Regardless of whether or not he was talking to a girlfriend on said phone at the very moment he was ambushed.

    This has happened before even higher up the DC food chain–around the turn of the century the papers were able to bury the story on like page 36 that Justice David Souter was treated at the hospital for some injuries received in a “mugging.” While out “jogging.” At around 3 a.m. In a rather notorious park.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @The Man From K Street

    Again, he was talking to his fiancee over the phone and was 100 yards from his front door on a residential street.

    , @Art Deco
    @The Man From K Street

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/us/justice-souter-is-attacked-while-jogging.html

    He was attacked at 9:oo pm at Fort McNair. I'd wager that if Mr. Justice Souter had been cruising, he wouldn't have filed a police report.

    He retired to a small town in New Hampshire, not optimal if casual sodomy is your hobby.

    Replies: @The Man From K Street, @Jack D, @Johann Ricke

    , @Anonymous
    @The Man From K Street

    "Occam’s Butterknife suggests that a white guy outdoors in DC at 4 am with his cellphone is either looking for drugs, or gay sex, or both."

    Occam says that the simplest suggestion is usually best, be he's presuming that you've got all the facts. And the fact is that "gentrifier-class" white guys who live in urban areas often do walk around in the middle of the night, especially if they are coming home from late night events, as Seth Rich was doing. This is a fact. It would have seemed crazy to me when I was growing up in suburbia and watched local TV news, but it is something you can sort of learn how to do. I did it many, many times myself. I eventually learned that I should not ever be talking on the phone while doing it, though. It can be a rough learning curve, and I suffered violence more than once, but not actually in the middle of the night.

    (I was offered both drugs and gay sex, but never wanted either...)

    Replies: @guest

  63. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    The Assange involvement seems to be something of a tipoff that Seth wasn’t just some uninvolved person. If it was a hit then subterfuges would have been used to lure him to a spot where he’d be vulnerable. It would be unlikely that something like that would be outsourced to some street punks as those sorts people are unreliable and might end up being liabilities. Actual assassin might dress down to look that way though.

  64. @Neoconned
    @Ron Unz

    While Rich may have been killed over the leaks that's not what cost Hillary the factory states of the Midwest....AND THE ELECTION....

    Trump said he'd bring the factories back, enhance union power, and deport the Latin scabs and welfare deadbeats and scammers back to their countries of origin or their parents origin....

    We'll see if that turns out to be a lie ...

    This is the same thing as the Russian bullshit....Russia didn't throw the blue collar factory states to Trump....he won them fair and square by following Jim Carvilles advice that Hillary very ignorantly shunned.....ITS THE ECONOMY STUPID!

    Instead of lying and saying you'll bring the factories back.....as we knew she wouldn't but at least her lies could have won votes....she called them clingers and deplorables....and so they shot the dice and took a chance w the Trumpster...

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @anonymous

    The leaks may have contributed but, on the whole, I believe you’re right.

  65. @res
    @bgates

    That is a very strange story. Why would someone slash a five year old girl's face randomly? Any more details on the slasher or the circumstances? Near that excerpt she clearly states she is not going to talk further about it (except to virtue signal I guess).

    Replies: @Jack D

    From what it is known, it was a random attack just as you describe. She was playing in her backyard in Upper Darby, PA (in the 1970s a safe place), a stranger approached and slashed her face and that was it. These cases can be very hard to solve because there is nothing that connects the attacker to the victim. The attacker disappears and is never seen again. I would have to guess just some crazy guy. Who knows what motivates crazy people?

    In other circumstances (e.g. if Fey’s father had been involved in some shady business) then it might have been to send a message to the father, but Fey’s father was a writer who worked in the development (euphemism for fundraising) offices of Phila. hospitals and universities – he was the cleanest guy you could imagine.

  66. If he said he’d been attacked by two white men…If he had said he’d two blacks, that would suggest it was random.

    If he’d said two south Asians that would suggest it was possibly related to the DNC IT dept. and potentially politically sensitive enough to want covering up.

    (not necessarily directly related to the Clintons or the leaks e.g. while snooping around over the rigging of the nomination maybe he found out about some IT dudes who’d been reading Dem. politicians emails and blackmailing them over it.)

    (also not necessarily related but Ted Lieu is stressed about something and he has gay face)

  67. @Alec Leamas
    @Neoconned

    You're talking about strategy and deployment of resources, but the leaked emails did keep Team Crone off of her narrative and on the defensive for several weeks, as well as airing intra-party rivalries which make working together successfully more difficult.

    You can't say that this or that is the cause where there were several contributing causes.

    Replies: @Neoconned

    I’ve met a handful of ppl my entire life who care about foreign policy or this or that…….it always goes back to jobs….

    I just don’t buy that narrative from the media one iota….

    Hillary didn’t say a single word to unions this time. She didn’t appeal to the Midwest. Trump on the other hand did a whirlwind campaign in this region and literally worked for every vote he earned
    ….

  68. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Watching the Madeleine Leader controversy on liberal forums, there’s much criticism of DNC stupidity for refusing to hire the most qualified tech guys in spite of all of this hacking/leaking BS.

    Are they so stupid though? What if the Democrat leadership is convinced that these incidents aren’t due to incompetence, but are deliberate acts of betrayal by white guys in their organization. Wouldn’t it then make sense to purge them all from sensitive departments such as IT?

  69. Cool story, Steve! Managed to work in all your greatest hits in a masterful mix of free association and baseless insinuation. It’s kind of like a Daily Caller/Stormer crossover episode.

  70. @Whiskey
    Let's just assume that someone close to Hillary or acting on Hillary's behalf did arrange Seth Rich's murder. Just assume that for the sake of argument. What then?

    If a local vibrant was hired to do the murder, what are the chances that said local vibrant is a sophisticated hitman like the one played by God Himself, Morgan Freeman, in the movie "Nurse Betty?" Or the chances that the person is chaotic, a mess, and highly likely to get jammed up in some other murder and now figure, "hey I killed this dude who was important, in the papers, hey Lawyer get me a plea deal and I'll spill the whole thing."

    Arranging a murder is not a transient transaction like buying a newspaper, now there's a low-life that owns said arranger. Sure there are lots and lots of security people sloshing around DC, but those dudes who have it together make good money, the ones who don't are not far from the vibrant assassin mess and legal entanglements, making anything "professional" the work of millions and millions of dollars. And still the problem -- another person in on the thing, maybe more than one.

    Pablo Escobar is the model of a person who employed lots and lots of assassins. He did it not just openly but brazenly, paid his killers a mere pittance, and the open-ness was itself a message -- that he not the state was the law, the true master of Columbia. If Hillary had wanted to send a message, all sorts of friends were available to pull favors as Comey and Mueller did in her email investigation. IRS audits, arrests on trumped up charges -- the whole point of the deep state is that they have control over the authorities and don't have to act like some kill-crazed narco kingpin to make their point. When they are in fact the man.

    Almost certainly outside of Chelsea and Huma there is no one fanatically loyal to Hillary. Bill? He's knee-deep in hot and cold running bimbos as usual. Can you imagine either one of those ladies arranging a vibrant hit on Rich? Can you imagine the ghetto grapevine full of gossip by some bragging dude on how he capped that White dude's ass, and got laid the same night (hence the motive).

    Replies: @whorefinder, @Neoconned, @dearieme, @Kevin O'Keeffe

    If a local vibrant was hired to do the murder, what are the chances that said local vibrant is a sophisticated hitman like the one played by God Himself, Morgan Freeman, in the movie “Nurse Betty?” Or the chances that the person is chaotic, a mess, and highly likely to get jammed up in some other murder and now figure, “hey I killed this dude who was important, in the papers, hey Lawyer get me a plea deal and I’ll spill the whole thing.”

    If that’s the sort of person they used for this job, then he was probably the next person they paid to have killed. His killer presumably wouldn’t know that he’d just killed the guy who’d previously killed Seth Rich, so the security issue would thus be largely resolved.

  71. @whorefinder
    @Ron Unz


    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…
     
    Rich leaves the bar at 1am and gets murdered around 4am. Something got him walking around at 4am. Where was he that 3 hour gap? Who was he talking to? Did he go home? To an after hours bar?

    My bet is he went home but suddenly got paranoid he was being followed, and started trying to find public places to hang out it. Unfortunately, nothing was open that late, so the killer cornered him in a place they thought there'd be few witnesses.

    Replies: @El Dato, @Anonymous, @Art Deco

    He had cell phone reception problems, so was given to going outside. He was talking to his fiancee at the time. (No clue why he’d do that at 4:00 am; there are times in your life sufficiently long ago that they seem like they happened to somebody else).

    Rich lived in Police Service Area 501, which has had 26 homicides in the last 10 years. I think Police Service Areas have populations (as a rule) of about 10,000 or 11,000. The homicide rate there might be roughly 40% higher than the city-wide mean. Similar to the New York City average in 1990, about 1/3 lower than the Baltimore average, about 20% higher than the Philadelphia average. So, bad, but could be worse.

    I think police departments commonly withhold certain crucial details because comparing what people tell you under questioning with things you haven’t told the public is useful for assessing the veracity of witnesses and the guilt or innocence of suspects in the course of interrogations, so I wouldn’t assume there was necessarily a political motive in not releasing Rich’s statements and in not releasing descriptions of the perpetrators.

    I do think this particular murder is quite peculiar.

  72. @The Man From K Street
    Occam's Butterknife suggests that a white guy outdoors in DC at 4 am with his cellphone is either looking for drugs, or gay sex, or both. Regardless of whether or not he was talking to a girlfriend on said phone at the very moment he was ambushed.

    This has happened before even higher up the DC food chain--around the turn of the century the papers were able to bury the story on like page 36 that Justice David Souter was treated at the hospital for some injuries received in a "mugging." While out "jogging." At around 3 a.m. In a rather notorious park.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Art Deco, @Anonymous

    Again, he was talking to his fiancee over the phone and was 100 yards from his front door on a residential street.

  73. @The Man From K Street
    Occam's Butterknife suggests that a white guy outdoors in DC at 4 am with his cellphone is either looking for drugs, or gay sex, or both. Regardless of whether or not he was talking to a girlfriend on said phone at the very moment he was ambushed.

    This has happened before even higher up the DC food chain--around the turn of the century the papers were able to bury the story on like page 36 that Justice David Souter was treated at the hospital for some injuries received in a "mugging." While out "jogging." At around 3 a.m. In a rather notorious park.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Art Deco, @Anonymous

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/us/justice-souter-is-attacked-while-jogging.html

    He was attacked at 9:oo pm at Fort McNair. I’d wager that if Mr. Justice Souter had been cruising, he wouldn’t have filed a police report.

    He retired to a small town in New Hampshire, not optimal if casual sodomy is your hobby.

    • Replies: @The Man From K Street
    @Art Deco


    He was attacked at 9:oo pm at Fort McNair. I’d wager that if Mr. Justice Souter had been cruising, he wouldn’t have filed a police report.
     
    Near Fort McNair--probably East Potomac Park-- a known cruising spot. The article says nothing about a formal police report. Only that police (obviously) were the first responders who took him to the hospital, and the ones he called were not the Metropolitan PD who have jurisdiction there, but Supreme Court cops, whose job it is to keep quiet about such things.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    , @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    Sunset in DC on May 1 is around 8PM so by 9PM it would be pretty dark outside. Some people go jogging in the dark in SW DC I suppose but it might not be the best idea.

    , @Johann Ricke
    @Art Deco


    I do think this particular murder is quite peculiar.
     
    Not at all peculiar if the perp was in a nice (i.e. not poor black) neighborhood. He had to assume that the neighbors would be lining up in a courtroom to point the finger at (i.e. snitch, in ghetto parlance, on) him, if he lingered to pilfer Rich's belongings. Muggers aren't crusaders out on a quest for the Holy Grail. It's all cost-benefit to them.

    If sticking around for a few additional minutes in a nice, heavily-patrolled neighborhood after a homicide to grab a dead vic's stuff means risking 30-to-life, it's obvious why he'd choose the low risk option. Cops don't always respond quickly to robbery reports. They generally race to shots-fired incidents. The only thing unusual is the perp had a degree of animal cunning we don't always see in criminals. What's more typical is a level of stupidity too depressing and run-of-the-mill to ever be depicted in police procedurals. In other words, the kind of thing we've seen on Cops for decades.
  74. @Art Deco
    @The Man From K Street

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/us/justice-souter-is-attacked-while-jogging.html

    He was attacked at 9:oo pm at Fort McNair. I'd wager that if Mr. Justice Souter had been cruising, he wouldn't have filed a police report.

    He retired to a small town in New Hampshire, not optimal if casual sodomy is your hobby.

    Replies: @The Man From K Street, @Jack D, @Johann Ricke

    He was attacked at 9:oo pm at Fort McNair. I’d wager that if Mr. Justice Souter had been cruising, he wouldn’t have filed a police report.

    Near Fort McNair–probably East Potomac Park– a known cruising spot. The article says nothing about a formal police report. Only that police (obviously) were the first responders who took him to the hospital, and the ones he called were not the Metropolitan PD who have jurisdiction there, but Supreme Court cops, whose job it is to keep quiet about such things.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @The Man From K Street

    Tucker Carlson has a funny story about broadcasting live from that park near the Supreme Court in December 2000 when the Supreme Court was announcing who won the 2000 election ... when a prominent (closeted) member of Congress stumbles out of the bushes. They shove a microphone under the politician's nose and announce he's come down to the park to be with the American people during this historic moment.

    Having been busy in the bushes while the news was breaking, the politician has no idea what's going on, but he soon rallies and strings together some all-purpose rhetoric.

    These people really do have certain talents ...

    Replies: @Anon87

  75. @whorefinder
    @guest

    How evolved was DNA testing at the time, and could it have been matched to Bubba then? I remember the OJ trial of the 1990s bringing up DNA and then being so hamfisted and vague it couldn't prove OJ did it.

    Replies: @guest

    “being so hamfisted and vague it couldn’t prove OJ did it”

    To the satisfaction of a bunch of black women who hated the victim.

    It’s not a matter of Lewinsky’ dress proving something beyond a reasonable doubt. They care about public relations. It was enough to get him impeached, which is a political, not legal, process.

    • Replies: @whorefinder
    @guest


    It was enough to get him impeached, which is a political, not legal, process.
     
    The legal process is a political process. Every single case is political in context. The standards of proof and what evidence counts are all political. The sooner people of the non-left wake up and realize this the same as people on the left have will push us forward into combating the left more effectively.

    But because most people of the non-left have this halcyon vision of the courts as impartial arbiters of justice---even after gay "marriage", Obamacare, abortion, and the 9th Circuit's blocking the travel ban---the left just installs their partisans in the courts and we, like idiots, follow their dictates.

    If you truly doubt courts are political mosey on down to the state criminal courthouse in the black neighborhood of your local major city and watch cases for a few days. Black judges are assigned to these court houses, and they will overwhelmingly let fellow blacks off on probation or with a warning or with minimal bail or with low sentences for very serious offenses with a lot of proof. Blacks understand that courts are to be used to help their race, not for justice.
  76. @Art Deco
    @The Man From K Street

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/us/justice-souter-is-attacked-while-jogging.html

    He was attacked at 9:oo pm at Fort McNair. I'd wager that if Mr. Justice Souter had been cruising, he wouldn't have filed a police report.

    He retired to a small town in New Hampshire, not optimal if casual sodomy is your hobby.

    Replies: @The Man From K Street, @Jack D, @Johann Ricke

    Sunset in DC on May 1 is around 8PM so by 9PM it would be pretty dark outside. Some people go jogging in the dark in SW DC I suppose but it might not be the best idea.

  77. @Art Deco
    @The Man From K Street

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/02/us/justice-souter-is-attacked-while-jogging.html

    He was attacked at 9:oo pm at Fort McNair. I'd wager that if Mr. Justice Souter had been cruising, he wouldn't have filed a police report.

    He retired to a small town in New Hampshire, not optimal if casual sodomy is your hobby.

    Replies: @The Man From K Street, @Jack D, @Johann Ricke

    I do think this particular murder is quite peculiar.

    Not at all peculiar if the perp was in a nice (i.e. not poor black) neighborhood. He had to assume that the neighbors would be lining up in a courtroom to point the finger at (i.e. snitch, in ghetto parlance, on) him, if he lingered to pilfer Rich’s belongings. Muggers aren’t crusaders out on a quest for the Holy Grail. It’s all cost-benefit to them.

    If sticking around for a few additional minutes in a nice, heavily-patrolled neighborhood after a homicide to grab a dead vic’s stuff means risking 30-to-life, it’s obvious why he’d choose the low risk option. Cops don’t always respond quickly to robbery reports. They generally race to shots-fired incidents. The only thing unusual is the perp had a degree of animal cunning we don’t always see in criminals. What’s more typical is a level of stupidity too depressing and run-of-the-mill to ever be depicted in police procedurals. In other words, the kind of thing we’ve seen on Cops for decades.

  78. anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Over the years there’s been claims that an unusual number of people around the Clintons have died who were inconvenient to them. Conspiracy theory? Going through lists compiled by the conspiracy people sort of makes one wonder. All just a coincidence? I seem to recall that Linda Tripp was alarmed over the safety of Monica Lewinsky, leading her to advise keeping the evidence just in case. Crossing the Clintons seems to be unsafe.

  79. Eagle Eye says:
    @guest
    @whorefinder

    "How much would the Clintons have liked to have disappeared Monica before word got out?"

    Was her life saved by the extreme unlikelihood of someone hanging onto a soiled dress?

    Replies: @whorefinder, @Eagle Eye

    Was [Monica’s] life saved by the extreme unlikelihood of someone hanging onto a soiled dress?

    Remember saving the dress and recording conversations was Linda Tripp’s idea. Having worked inside the Clinton & Clinton White House and no doubt having heard stories about life and death in Arkansas, Linda Tripp knew what she and Monica were up against.

    Coincidentally, Linda Tripp was also the last person to see Hillary’s late lawyer and lover Vincent Foster alive before he was suicided in Fort Marcy Park. Foster had balked at the terms of a proposed “blind” trust for the Clintons’ private assets. Bizarrely, the trust was set up later using papers Foster had allegedly signed while still alive.

    The point of placing Foster’s body in a public park was to ensure that the Park Police rather than regular cops would have jurisdiction. No doubt there were reliable agents inside the Park Police to ensure that the case was handled without blow-back to the bosses.

    Mysteriously, there is no video of Foster leaving the White House grounds, surely one of the most secure areas in the U.S.

    The Wall Street Journal fought hard to try and get Foster autopsy documents. The WSJ’s quest ultimately ended when the Supreme Court granted an injunction prohibiting the WSJ from making further requests, and also prohibiting the WSJ from disclosing the EXISTENCE OF THE INJUNCTION itself. Billy-Jeff must have had some serious compromat on a few of the robes at the time.

  80. Eagle Eye says:
    @Ron Unz
    Well, DC is still a pretty dangerous city, but how many middle-class whites were randomly murdered there that year while innocently walking the streets? I wouldn't be surprised if Seth Rich was just about the only one.

    Julian Assange has strongly implied that Seth Rich was the source of the DNC emails that cost Hillary Clinton the presidency. So if Seth Rich died in a totally random street killing not long afterward, isn't that just the most astonishing coincidence in all of American history?

    Consider that the leaks effectively nullified the investment of the $2 billion or so that her donors had provided, and foreclosed the flood of good jobs and appointments to her camp-followers, not to mention the oceans of future graft. Seems to me that's a pretty good motive for murder.

    Here's my own plausible speculation from a couple of months ago:

    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…
     
    https://www.unz.com/announcement/new-software-releaseopen-thread/#comment-1959442

    Replies: @Anonymous, @utu, @Matthew Kelly, @Hail, @whorefinder, @Neoconned, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous, @Eagle Eye, @the Supreme Gentleman

    Consider that the [DNC] leaks effectively nullified the investment of the $2 billion or so that [Hillary’s] donors had provided, …

    *IF* someone else was the real leaker, that person would have a powerful motive to pin the blame on Seth Rich. With SUSPECTED leaker Rich dead, the pressure to nail the REAL leaker would evaporate.

  81. It wasn’t a hit. If it was, Rich would not have been alive all the way to the hospital; his killer(s) would have taken the 1 second it takes to put 2 bullets into his head, to do so. Case closed.

    Julian Assange has strongly implied that Seth Rich was the source of the DNC emails that cost Hillary Clinton the presidency. So if Seth Rich died in a totally random street killing not long afterward, isn’t that just the most astonishing coincidence in all of American history?

    Both events would dovetail well with a rather naive, risk-taking sort of guy. Were there many white folks on the street in a neighborhood prone to high levels of black crime/murder around at 4am to witness his murder? Were there many DNC staffers handing info off to Wikileaks?

    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…

    Of course, there are now, according to you, around 2 billion reasons that both your junior DNC staffer, and his friend, must die. And so must the people who fix their murders. And theirs. Russian doll time.

    The Konspiracy Kook view of political murder in the US basically runs into the concrete abutment of the prisoner’s dilemma and explodes into a fireball.

    Obviously anything’s possible and the universe is a strange place, but that’s my take.

    • Replies: @notanon
    @Svigor


    It wasn’t a hit. If it was, Rich would not have been alive all the way to the hospital; his killer(s) would have taken the 1 second it takes to put 2 bullets into his head, to do so. Case closed.
     
    half closed - if it was intended as a hit you're right it wasn't professional so somewhere in the range between a panicky robbery and amateur assassination

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  82. @res
    @Hail

    Thanks. I could not find current data, but this link says 92% of DC homicide victims in 1998-2000 were African American: https://mpdc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/mpdc/publication/attachments/homicidereport_0.pdf

    Although the data is old it has a number of breakdowns (e.g. maps, time of day, clearance rate by motive/sex/race) that might be interesting to anyone wondering how typical the Seth Rich case is.

    Replies: @Hail

    92% of DC homicide victims in 1998-2000 were African American:

    If that % holds for 2016 (unlikely, as DC is much less Black today than in those years), then 11 of the 135 murder victims in 2016 were non-Blacks, Seth Rich and 10 others. If murder victims declined to 80-85% Black by 2016, then 20 to 27 were non-Black. If at most half the non-Black murder victims were White in this scenario, that makes one White murder victim in DC per month in 2016 at most. I’d say this one-per-month is the true number in rough terms. One per month is, of course, very low, considering hundreds of thousands are in the city, living and/or working-commuting, daily…

    I note that if Seth Rich was killed by a BLM-motivated street attack — perhaps not originally an attempted murder but a confrontation that went wrong, or perhaps an all-on, deliberate murder of a White racist by one or more BLMers — it would fit with the pattern of BLM violence in that very month, July 2016. Seth Rich was killed days after the New Orleans attack that bagged five police before the BLM shooter was taken out. The Texas attack was some days after Seth Rich. Donna Brazile implies that this (BLM, race-motivated attack) is the most likely explanation.

    As for possible examples of other anti-White murders in DC during the BLM Era. I would submit to you the massacre of the wealthy White family in their mansion in May 2015; four killed including the son, age 10, by possibly-BLM-motivated terrorist Daron Dylan Wint. Possibly comparable to the Seth Rich case in terms of likely perp-victim relation (Black-White, no motive):

    Shortly after 1 pm, neighbors saw smoke pouring from the windows. When firefighters responded, they discovered a horrific scene: the remains of Amy, Savvas, Philip, and housekeeper Veralicia Figueroa in upstairs bedrooms. Autopsies found that the three adults had died of “blunt force and sharp trauma” and the boy of “thermal and sharp force injuries.”

    TV crews swarmed the crime scene. DC mayor Muriel Bowser called the incident “an act of evil.” Family members tried hurriedly to alert the Savopouloses’ teenage daughters, who were out of town at school, before they saw the headlines. Investigators believed that the victims had been held for 16 hours, bound, strangled, and beaten.

    It got its own Wiki entry somebody entitled 2015 Washington, D.C. Mass Killing.

    Trying to conjure a motive, some neighbors wondered if Savopoulos had run afoul of someone who then ordered a hit. […] [But] [p]rofessionals don’t spend the night, order pizza, and allow their victims to communicate with the outside world. They also don’t botch their efforts to torch the house: In this case, the fire was started upstairs in the bedrooms; whoever lit it left matches and gasoline on the staircase, according to police reports.

  83. Sometimes it is a fun sociology litmus test, like when my friend Ricky asked me, ‘Did they ever catch the black guy that did that to you?’ Hmmm. It was not a black guy, Ricky, and I never said it was.

    LOL, sounds contrived AF. He may assume the guy was black, but his putting the assumption into the question stretches credulity. Possible, but unlikely.

    At this point, one starts to wonder if Ricky ever existed.

    Bingo. Or at least, the conversation is contrived. I can totally see someone flat-out asking her if it was a black guy, but “hey did they ever catch the black guy who” seems like artifice.

    Whiskey says: • Website
    November 8, 2017 at 6:39 am GMT • 400 Words

    Whiskey’s singing the same tune as I! Cue Singularity in 3…2…1…

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Svigor

    Professional comedians are talented at rearranging actual events to be funnier. Similarly, great movie directors like John Huston and Frank Capra wrote memoirs stuffed with superb anecdotes. But how can you be sure the events really happened exactly the way this contender for title of World's Greatest Storyteller recounts it.

  84. If that’s the sort of person they used for this job, then he was probably the next person they paid to have killed. His killer presumably wouldn’t know that he’d just killed the guy who’d previously killed Seth Rich, so the security issue would thus be largely resolved.

    *Facepalm*

    He still knows he just pulled off a murder for the Clintons. So he, too, must be killed. And the guy who kills him, and…

    You can’t game your way out of the Prisoner’s Dilemma. That’s why it’s called a dilemma.

  85. @The Man From K Street
    @Art Deco


    He was attacked at 9:oo pm at Fort McNair. I’d wager that if Mr. Justice Souter had been cruising, he wouldn’t have filed a police report.
     
    Near Fort McNair--probably East Potomac Park-- a known cruising spot. The article says nothing about a formal police report. Only that police (obviously) were the first responders who took him to the hospital, and the ones he called were not the Metropolitan PD who have jurisdiction there, but Supreme Court cops, whose job it is to keep quiet about such things.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Tucker Carlson has a funny story about broadcasting live from that park near the Supreme Court in December 2000 when the Supreme Court was announcing who won the 2000 election … when a prominent (closeted) member of Congress stumbles out of the bushes. They shove a microphone under the politician’s nose and announce he’s come down to the park to be with the American people during this historic moment.

    Having been busy in the bushes while the news was breaking, the politician has no idea what’s going on, but he soon rallies and strings together some all-purpose rhetoric.

    These people really do have certain talents …

    • Replies: @Anon87
    @Steve Sailer

    Why be coy? Barney Frank? Trying to search for this story using "Bush" brings up too much noise.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  86. @Svigor
    It wasn't a hit. If it was, Rich would not have been alive all the way to the hospital; his killer(s) would have taken the 1 second it takes to put 2 bullets into his head, to do so. Case closed.

    Julian Assange has strongly implied that Seth Rich was the source of the DNC emails that cost Hillary Clinton the presidency. So if Seth Rich died in a totally random street killing not long afterward, isn’t that just the most astonishing coincidence in all of American history?
     
    Both events would dovetail well with a rather naive, risk-taking sort of guy. Were there many white folks on the street in a neighborhood prone to high levels of black crime/murder around at 4am to witness his murder? Were there many DNC staffers handing info off to Wikileaks?

    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…
     
    Of course, there are now, according to you, around 2 billion reasons that both your junior DNC staffer, and his friend, must die. And so must the people who fix their murders. And theirs. Russian doll time.

    The Konspiracy Kook view of political murder in the US basically runs into the concrete abutment of the prisoner's dilemma and explodes into a fireball.

    Obviously anything's possible and the universe is a strange place, but that's my take.

    Replies: @notanon

    It wasn’t a hit. If it was, Rich would not have been alive all the way to the hospital; his killer(s) would have taken the 1 second it takes to put 2 bullets into his head, to do so. Case closed.

    half closed – if it was intended as a hit you’re right it wasn’t professional so somewhere in the range between a panicky robbery and amateur assassination

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @notanon

    Maybe it was a BLM-inspired racial attack like several others that month?

    Replies: @notanon

  87. @Svigor

    Sometimes it is a fun sociology litmus test, like when my friend Ricky asked me, ‘Did they ever catch the black guy that did that to you?’ Hmmm. It was not a black guy, Ricky, and I never said it was.
     
    LOL, sounds contrived AF. He may assume the guy was black, but his putting the assumption into the question stretches credulity. Possible, but unlikely.

    At this point, one starts to wonder if Ricky ever existed.
     
    Bingo. Or at least, the conversation is contrived. I can totally see someone flat-out asking her if it was a black guy, but "hey did they ever catch the black guy who" seems like artifice.

    Whiskey says: • Website
    November 8, 2017 at 6:39 am GMT • 400 Words
     
    Whiskey's singing the same tune as I! Cue Singularity in 3...2...1...

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Professional comedians are talented at rearranging actual events to be funnier. Similarly, great movie directors like John Huston and Frank Capra wrote memoirs stuffed with superb anecdotes. But how can you be sure the events really happened exactly the way this contender for title of World’s Greatest Storyteller recounts it.

  88. @notanon
    @Svigor


    It wasn’t a hit. If it was, Rich would not have been alive all the way to the hospital; his killer(s) would have taken the 1 second it takes to put 2 bullets into his head, to do so. Case closed.
     
    half closed - if it was intended as a hit you're right it wasn't professional so somewhere in the range between a panicky robbery and amateur assassination

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Maybe it was a BLM-inspired racial attack like several others that month?

    • Replies: @notanon
    @Steve Sailer

    could be
    - the gf said she heard something and he said not to worry and hung up implying the noise was something she might be worried by but also that they didn't just come up behind him and shoot him in the back - which tends away from planned assassination imo - and iirc from the reports there was a gap between him hanging up the phone and the shot detector registering the shots.

    so what happened in the gap - attempted robbery, argument of some kind?

  89. @Steve Sailer
    @notanon

    Maybe it was a BLM-inspired racial attack like several others that month?

    Replies: @notanon

    could be
    – the gf said she heard something and he said not to worry and hung up implying the noise was something she might be worried by but also that they didn’t just come up behind him and shoot him in the back – which tends away from planned assassination imo – and iirc from the reports there was a gap between him hanging up the phone and the shot detector registering the shots.

    so what happened in the gap – attempted robbery, argument of some kind?

  90. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @The Man From K Street
    Occam's Butterknife suggests that a white guy outdoors in DC at 4 am with his cellphone is either looking for drugs, or gay sex, or both. Regardless of whether or not he was talking to a girlfriend on said phone at the very moment he was ambushed.

    This has happened before even higher up the DC food chain--around the turn of the century the papers were able to bury the story on like page 36 that Justice David Souter was treated at the hospital for some injuries received in a "mugging." While out "jogging." At around 3 a.m. In a rather notorious park.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Art Deco, @Anonymous

    “Occam’s Butterknife suggests that a white guy outdoors in DC at 4 am with his cellphone is either looking for drugs, or gay sex, or both.”

    Occam says that the simplest suggestion is usually best, be he’s presuming that you’ve got all the facts. And the fact is that “gentrifier-class” white guys who live in urban areas often do walk around in the middle of the night, especially if they are coming home from late night events, as Seth Rich was doing. This is a fact. It would have seemed crazy to me when I was growing up in suburbia and watched local TV news, but it is something you can sort of learn how to do. I did it many, many times myself. I eventually learned that I should not ever be talking on the phone while doing it, though. It can be a rough learning curve, and I suffered violence more than once, but not actually in the middle of the night.

    (I was offered both drugs and gay sex, but never wanted either…)

    • Replies: @guest
    @Anonymous

    Actually, Occam's razor is best expressed by saying assumptions shouldn't be multiplied without necessity. If you have further facts, further assumptions become necessary.

  91. @BB753
    @guest

    Even worse than Tennessee Genius Coates? Where have you been hiding for the last 4 years?

    Replies: @guest

    Tennessee Coates’ writing is superficial and silly, with baleful arguments. But at least you know what he’s saying.

    Not so Yglesias. He’s all but indecipherable much of the time, and when I can understand what he’s saying it’s invariably expressed in the most annoying fashion possible.

  92. Yeah, I don’t mean to rule out politically-motivated murder, just a hit ordered by the political elite. I guess they could’ve gotten a total knucklehead to do it and he panicked (dunno how he was expecting gunning down an innocent man to go, but hey), but it’s not a very plausible story. Somewhat ironically, it would confirm my belief that domestic murder of civilians isn’t something the political elite has on tap.

  93. @Steve Sailer
    @The Man From K Street

    Tucker Carlson has a funny story about broadcasting live from that park near the Supreme Court in December 2000 when the Supreme Court was announcing who won the 2000 election ... when a prominent (closeted) member of Congress stumbles out of the bushes. They shove a microphone under the politician's nose and announce he's come down to the park to be with the American people during this historic moment.

    Having been busy in the bushes while the news was breaking, the politician has no idea what's going on, but he soon rallies and strings together some all-purpose rhetoric.

    These people really do have certain talents ...

    Replies: @Anon87

    Why be coy? Barney Frank? Trying to search for this story using “Bush” brings up too much noise.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon87

    If Tucker gave the actual name of the Congressman, which I doubt, I don't remember what it was.

    I've tried looking up this anecdote from a number of years ago but haven't been able to find it.

  94. @utu
    @Ron Unz

    He was killed after the leak. What did his death prevent form happening?

    Replies: @Matthew Kelly, @Anonymous, @whorefinder, @guest, @Neoconned, @the Supreme Gentleman, @Eric Novak

    Exactly—authorizing such an assassination would be such a huge risk for Clinton/the Democrats; even if there was only a 5% chance that the truth would be revealed it would have the potential to completely destroy their electoral chances in the 2016 cycle. What upside for Clinton/the Democrats would plausibly compensate for this massive risk?

    Nothing that commenters have mentioned seems worth taking such a gigantic gamble over. Hypothetical future leaks would be far less dangerous than credible allegations of political murder. (In any case that’s sort of contradictory, because in order to be a credible threat to serve as a deterrent it would need to not look like an accident, but then if it doesn’t look like an accident it makes allegations of murder seem credible. Is there really a satisfactory place on that tradeoff?) It seems extremely inopportune to take “revenge” right after the alleged crime and before the conclusion of the 2016 election.

    (And all this is presuming for the sake of argument that Rich was the source of the leaks, which doesn’t seem very well substantiated to me.)

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @the Supreme Gentleman

    The more I read about Seth Rich, the less he seems like he was a complicated guy with a lot of secrets.

    Granted, the bartenders at his favorite sports bar said he wouldn't say which candidate he supported (presumably, during the Democratic primary). But that was proper behavior for somebody working at the DNC, I imagine.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  95. @Ron Unz
    Well, DC is still a pretty dangerous city, but how many middle-class whites were randomly murdered there that year while innocently walking the streets? I wouldn't be surprised if Seth Rich was just about the only one.

    Julian Assange has strongly implied that Seth Rich was the source of the DNC emails that cost Hillary Clinton the presidency. So if Seth Rich died in a totally random street killing not long afterward, isn't that just the most astonishing coincidence in all of American history?

    Consider that the leaks effectively nullified the investment of the $2 billion or so that her donors had provided, and foreclosed the flood of good jobs and appointments to her camp-followers, not to mention the oceans of future graft. Seems to me that's a pretty good motive for murder.

    Here's my own plausible speculation from a couple of months ago:

    Incidentally, I’d guess that DC is a very easy place to arrange a killing, given that until the heavy gentrification of the last dozen years or so, it was one of America’s street-murder capitals. It seems perfectly plausible that some junior DNC staffer was at dinner somewhere, endlessly cursing Seth Rich for having betrayed his party and endangered Hillary’s election, when one of his friends said he knew somebody who’d be willing to “take care of the problem” for a thousand bucks…
     
    https://www.unz.com/announcement/new-software-releaseopen-thread/#comment-1959442

    Replies: @Anonymous, @utu, @Matthew Kelly, @Hail, @whorefinder, @Neoconned, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous, @Eagle Eye, @the Supreme Gentleman

    Consider that the leaks effectively nullified the investment of the $2 billion or so that her donors had provided, and foreclosed the flood of good jobs and appointments to her camp-followers, not to mention the oceans of future graft.

    Really? Wasn’t Clinton still ahead by a non-trivial margin in the betting markets (as per e.g. Predictwise) and polls right up until the election occurred? At the time of Seth Rich’s murder (early July 2016), according to RCP, the betting odds on a Clinton victory were about 74/26.

    If a DNC staffer had ordered the murder of Seth Rich, the discovery of this likely would have completely sunk the Clinton campaign. If, as you claim, a Clinton victory would lead to an ocean of corruption and was backed by billions of dollars of funding, why would anyone in the Clinton campaign take such a risk, especially if/when it looked like they would win anyway?

  96. @Anon87
    @Steve Sailer

    Why be coy? Barney Frank? Trying to search for this story using "Bush" brings up too much noise.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    If Tucker gave the actual name of the Congressman, which I doubt, I don’t remember what it was.

    I’ve tried looking up this anecdote from a number of years ago but haven’t been able to find it.

  97. @the Supreme Gentleman
    @utu

    Exactly---authorizing such an assassination would be such a huge risk for Clinton/the Democrats; even if there was only a 5% chance that the truth would be revealed it would have the potential to completely destroy their electoral chances in the 2016 cycle. What upside for Clinton/the Democrats would plausibly compensate for this massive risk?

    Nothing that commenters have mentioned seems worth taking such a gigantic gamble over. Hypothetical future leaks would be far less dangerous than credible allegations of political murder. (In any case that's sort of contradictory, because in order to be a credible threat to serve as a deterrent it would need to not look like an accident, but then if it doesn't look like an accident it makes allegations of murder seem credible. Is there really a satisfactory place on that tradeoff?) It seems extremely inopportune to take "revenge" right after the alleged crime and before the conclusion of the 2016 election.

    (And all this is presuming for the sake of argument that Rich was the source of the leaks, which doesn't seem very well substantiated to me.)

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    The more I read about Seth Rich, the less he seems like he was a complicated guy with a lot of secrets.

    Granted, the bartenders at his favorite sports bar said he wouldn’t say which candidate he supported (presumably, during the Democratic primary). But that was proper behavior for somebody working at the DNC, I imagine.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Steve Sailer

    But sometimes genuine idealism is not a complicated thing. The photos routinely posted all over reveal that he had a patriotic mindset that many probably don't associate with any major Democrat since JFK. Donna Brazile also calls him a patriot, in a non-ironic way, and my sense is that, regardless of the question feeding fiasco, she seems to have some grounding in morality. Is it not possible that an idealist who thinks that he has so far done the right thing, but realizes that he is surrounded by many corrupt people, might do something that deviates from expectation?

  98. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Steve Sailer
    @the Supreme Gentleman

    The more I read about Seth Rich, the less he seems like he was a complicated guy with a lot of secrets.

    Granted, the bartenders at his favorite sports bar said he wouldn't say which candidate he supported (presumably, during the Democratic primary). But that was proper behavior for somebody working at the DNC, I imagine.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    But sometimes genuine idealism is not a complicated thing. The photos routinely posted all over reveal that he had a patriotic mindset that many probably don’t associate with any major Democrat since JFK. Donna Brazile also calls him a patriot, in a non-ironic way, and my sense is that, regardless of the question feeding fiasco, she seems to have some grounding in morality. Is it not possible that an idealist who thinks that he has so far done the right thing, but realizes that he is surrounded by many corrupt people, might do something that deviates from expectation?

  99. @Anonymous
    @The Man From K Street

    "Occam’s Butterknife suggests that a white guy outdoors in DC at 4 am with his cellphone is either looking for drugs, or gay sex, or both."

    Occam says that the simplest suggestion is usually best, be he's presuming that you've got all the facts. And the fact is that "gentrifier-class" white guys who live in urban areas often do walk around in the middle of the night, especially if they are coming home from late night events, as Seth Rich was doing. This is a fact. It would have seemed crazy to me when I was growing up in suburbia and watched local TV news, but it is something you can sort of learn how to do. I did it many, many times myself. I eventually learned that I should not ever be talking on the phone while doing it, though. It can be a rough learning curve, and I suffered violence more than once, but not actually in the middle of the night.

    (I was offered both drugs and gay sex, but never wanted either...)

    Replies: @guest

    Actually, Occam’s razor is best expressed by saying assumptions shouldn’t be multiplied without necessity. If you have further facts, further assumptions become necessary.

  100. @guest
    @whorefinder

    "being so hamfisted and vague it couldn't prove OJ did it"

    To the satisfaction of a bunch of black women who hated the victim.

    It's not a matter of Lewinsky' dress proving something beyond a reasonable doubt. They care about public relations. It was enough to get him impeached, which is a political, not legal, process.

    Replies: @whorefinder

    It was enough to get him impeached, which is a political, not legal, process.

    The legal process is a political process. Every single case is political in context. The standards of proof and what evidence counts are all political. The sooner people of the non-left wake up and realize this the same as people on the left have will push us forward into combating the left more effectively.

    But because most people of the non-left have this halcyon vision of the courts as impartial arbiters of justice—even after gay “marriage”, Obamacare, abortion, and the 9th Circuit’s blocking the travel ban—the left just installs their partisans in the courts and we, like idiots, follow their dictates.

    If you truly doubt courts are political mosey on down to the state criminal courthouse in the black neighborhood of your local major city and watch cases for a few days. Black judges are assigned to these court houses, and they will overwhelmingly let fellow blacks off on probation or with a warning or with minimal bail or with low sentences for very serious offenses with a lot of proof. Blacks understand that courts are to be used to help their race, not for justice.

  101. Perhaps DNC/Clinton operatives had been keeping an eye on Seth for awhile and only decided to wipe him out after the leak, either for revenge or to discourage others from doing something similar.

    But of course we all know it was Putin, bare-chested and astride a horse whose magical hooves made no sound on the pavement.

  102. @utu
    @Ron Unz

    He was killed after the leak. What did his death prevent form happening?

    Replies: @Matthew Kelly, @Anonymous, @whorefinder, @guest, @Neoconned, @the Supreme Gentleman, @Eric Novak

    Testimony in court. He knew much more than the information in the Wikileaks leak.

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