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From the Washington Post:

Angela Merkel welcomed refugees to Germany. They’re starting to help the economy.

By Griff Witte and Luisa Beck May 5

GARBSEN, Germany — In his native Syria, Mohammed Kassim worked as an electrician. But having learned the trade informally, he lacked the credentials to show for it.

Now, in his adopted homeland, 30-year-old Kassim is receiving the training he never had.

What, you mean Syrian electricians aren’t up to German standards of not burning down the house? Isn’t that … racist?

And he is getting paid to do it by a company dangling the promise of a job that could vault him from struggling refugee to member of the German middle class.

The program that is helping tens of thousands of refugees rebuild their lives was not created for the newcomers who have converged on Germany to escape war, oppression and poverty.

Instead, Germany’s apprenticeship system is a fixture of the economy with roots in medieval times. But with the national unemployment rate at a 30-year-low, young Germans have lost their appetite for vocational training. Companies face a shortage of skilled workers that could ultimately derail their growth.

Population of EU member Poland = 38 million. EU members Romania/Bulgaria = 27 million. Population of nearby non-EU member Ukraine 45 million.

Whether it can find them among the refugee population could determine the answer to two of the country’s most daunting questions: Can Germany integrate its vast numbers of asylum seekers? And can its economy continue to hum as the native-born population ages?

On both counts, early indications have been promising, if inconclusive.

Nearly four years after German Chancellor Angela Merkel chose to leave the country’s borders open amid a vast influx of asylum seekers to Europe, a significant majority of the approximately 1.5 million people who have arrived since remain out of the labor force. …

With a shrinking native population, Germany desperately needs those young people.

Because nobody else in the world would want to move to Germany.

… Getting the newcomers into the workforce has not been easy. The vast majority arrived without knowing German — a notoriously difficult language — and without the job skills that German companies seek.

Of those who do work, many have taken low-paid jobs at restaurants, in warehouses or in the gig economy, performing on-demand deliveries.

Hey, it worked for Rotherham.

Sigmar Walbrecht, who directs workforce integration projects at the Hanover Refugee Council, tries to convince refugees he meets that they would be better off training for a higher-skilled job, even if it pays less right now. But the allure of a quick paycheck is strong. ….

Ramadan, who serves as a volunteer firefighter in Hanover when he’s not brushing up on one of his five languages or teaching himself math or physics online, acknowledges that he’s unusual among refugees.

 
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  1. What, you mean Syrian electricians aren’t up to German standards of not burning down the house?

    Are Syrian homes even flammable? These don’t look especially so:

    How To Live Without Air Conditioning: Syrian Beehive Houses

    Fire doesn’t seem to be the main threat, anyway. Well, “fire” of a different definition, maybe:

    But these look pretty safe:

    • Replies: @Escher
    @Reg Cæsar

    Too bad Obama and Hillary didn’t get a chance to host these refugees, as a reward for having made them refugees in the first place.

  2. Anonymous[162] • Disclaimer says:

    Ramadan, who serves as a volunteer firefighter in Hanover when he’s not brushing up on one of his five languages or teaching himself math or physics online, acknowledges that he’s unusual among refugees.

    Who is supporting Ramadan? Does he have any income at all?

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Anonymous

    Ramadan’s on welfare obviously

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    , @bomag
    @Anonymous


    ...brushing up on one of his five languages or teaching himself math or physics online
     
    Sounds like an LOL moment, telling the reporter something he wants to hear.

    Refugee types are famous for this; another of the many reasons not to let them in.
  3. Nearly four years after German Chancellor Angela Merkel chose to leave the country’s borders open amid a vast influx of asylum seekers to Europe, a significant majority of the approximately 1.5 million people who have arrived since remain out of the labor force. …

    So, after four years well over half of the refugees are doing nothing but mooching off the German welfare system. I’d say the results of the experiment are in.

    The rest of the article is just nonsense happy-talk.

    • Agree: GermanReader2
    • Replies: @216
    @Hypnotoad666

    Absent a renewed economic downturn, anti-immigration sentiment will remain low.

    In an OK-to-good economy, the average person follows the lead of the press, blaming the right for being "divisive" when it criticizes immigration.

    , @Pericles
    @Hypnotoad666


    So, after four years well over half of the refugees are doing nothing but mooching off the German welfare system. I’d say the results of the experiment are in.

     

    After fifteen years in Sweden, it turns out half the immigrants have managed to get a job. It might not even be a full-time job. Muh pensions!

    Lol, what utter BS we have been fed all these years. These very smart elites don't even care what lies they tell us.
  4. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:

    Population of EU member Poland = 38 million. EU members Romania/Bulgaria = 27 million. Population of nearby non-EU member Ukraine 45 million.

    Most immigrants in Germany are from EU countries or non-EU European countries.

    This is also the case in countries like Sweden.

    https://twitter.com/turbovlach/status/1125476696285687809

    • Replies: @Lurker
    @Anonymous

    And how does that stack up against unemployment, crime, welfare etc?

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Anonymous

    I wonder how cities like Malmo became Moslem cities, then, #375. Where'd they get all the Moslems, Al-fucking-Bania?

    Replies: @Fredrik

    , @Buzz Mohawk
    @Anonymous

    And? What does that have to do with anything, smart commenter #375?

    Ninety percent of what we put in our kitchen trash is stuff that doesn't stink after a day. It's the rest that forces us to take it outside and dump it.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @ben tillman
    @Anonymous

    Stupid. Sweden has unlimited immigration (i.e., the spigot is never to be turned off, even if it is never opened up to full throttle), so the current % is meaningless. All that matters is that current policies (which the ruling class tells us are intended to be permanent) will eventually make the % of non-Europeans 100 and the % of Swedes 0.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Anonymous

  5. without knowing German — a notoriously difficult language

    To Anglophones, yes. But to speakers of Arabic? Urdu?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages#Grammar

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindustani_grammar#Morphology

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    Actually, German is one of the easier European languages to learn.
    For a novice it might start off difficult, but it gets easier.

    You can't say that for French, for instance, or even English - too many idiosyncrasies, nuances, colloquilliasms et .

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Kent Nationalist, @Buzz Mohawk, @PiltdownMan, @ben tillman

    , @The Alarmist
    @Reg Cæsar


    "... without knowing German — a notoriously difficult language ...."
     
    I dunno, I found it easier than French, and there is no shortage of migrants there too.

    Replies: @Digital Samizdat

    , @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    German isn't that tough, my own lack of progress in it is my own fault, not putting in the time.
    It's fun actually, but has a lot of annoying long words.

    I learned vacuum tube electronics from German books, transliterating along the way, and can actually pretty well decipher the following:



    Ein Röhrenverstärker arbeitet mit lebensgefährlichen Anodenspannungen! Für den Nachbau der hier beschriebenen Geräte sind fundierte Kenntnisse der Elektronik und der elektrischen Sicherheit unbedingt erforderlich!!

    ___________________________________________________________________

    Auf dieser Seite werde ich Verstärker - Schaltungen - zum Nachbauen - vorstellen. Und, natürlich - werden es Röhrenverstärker sein, was denn auch sonst..?
    Es werden unter anderem einfache (will sagen : einfach nachzubauende) Mono- und Stereo-Verstärker mit kleinen, großen und größten Leistungen beschrieben, ebenfalls Vorverstärkerstufen mit Eingangsmischstufen für den Anschluß von Radio, Plattenspieler, CD-Player, Minidisk.. - mit aktiver Klangregelung und Loudness- Schalter.. - mit Wickeldaten für Netztransformatoren, für Ausgangsübertrager... und so weiter.

    Das oben abgebildete Foto ist ein Röhrenverstärker der Spitzenklasse, Hersteller J.C.Verdier aus Frankreich, ein 2 x 20-Watt-Vollverstärker.

    Hinweis : Die hier abgebildeten Verstärkerschaltungen sind überwiegend Schaltungen aus den frühen Röhrentagen, meist jedoch aus den 50er bis in die 60er Jahre. Der zu diesem Zeitpunkt geprägte Begriff " Hi-Fi", nach DIN 45500, entspricht (nicht unbedingt...) unseren heutigen Hi-Fi-Erwartungen. Zur damaligen Zeit galt fast alles, was lärmte, mehr als 5 Watt Leistung abgab bei unter 1 % Klirrfaktor und einen Frequenzgang von 40 - 12500 Hz (+ / - 3 dB) vorwies, als "Hi - Fi". ;-)

    Hinweis : Ich bin nicht fehlerfrei, wie keiner von uns .. - Deshalb : alle Angaben, sämtliche Daten die ich hier mache, - zu den Verstärkern und zu den dafür benötigten Transformatoren (wie z.B. die Wickeldaten) - sind von mir nach meinem besten Wissen und Gewissen recherchiert und berechnet worden, sie sind aber, natürlich, ohne Gewähr !

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Ein Bekannter von mir, der Namentlich ungenannt bleiben möchte, sandte mir die folgende hochinteressante Beschreibung eines OTL-Verstärkers zu, mit gleich 8 x 6AS7G. Die gesamte Beschreibung ist als Baubeschreibung ausgelegt.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Helmut Becker, Inhaber der Fa. Audiovalve, gab mir seine Erlaubnis, den von ihm entwickelten und in einer Elrad-Zeitschrift veröffentlichten PCL 805-Kopfhörer-Amp hier zu vorzustellen. Ein Amp, der weltweit grosse Beachtung fand!

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Einen EL 84-Gegentakt-Verstärker aus der DDR, den VEB MV 3 von den Klingenthaler Harmonikawerken, DDR zeigt dieser Link.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Hier gehts zu einer Seite, die den Bau eines hochwertigen Ultralinearen HiFi-Gegentaktübertragers für 2 x EL 84 beschreibt.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Einen Triodenverstärker kleiner Leistung (ca. 6 Watt), ideal als Treiber für Alnico- u.a. LS mit hohem Wirkungsgrad ist der 6C19-Triodenamp.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Auf der Seite Leser-Projekte stellte ich Ernst Rössler's Verstärker vor, eine nach Grommes angelehnte Schaltung mit der EL 34 / 6L6 / KT 88 als Endstufe. Ich bat Ernst, für meine Verstärkerseite und, vor allem, für die GU 50 - Begeisterten, diese Schaltung mitamt Platine für die GU 50 anzupassen. - Herausgekommen ist ein Verstärker, der nicht nur mich begeistert... - es ist der Grommes-GU 50-Amp von Ernst Rössler !

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Auf dieser Seite stelle ich meinen Neuerwerb, den 6L6-Amp vom Klaus, vor. Ein toller Amp, der nicht nur mich sondern bisher alle meine Besucher begeisterte, wie beispielsweise Carsten (carawu) und Kay (kaspie)...

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Im folgend beschriebenen Link wird der Bau eines zweistufigen NF-Verstärkers zu Übungs- und Testzwecken mit der EL84 beschrieben. Hierin versuche ich auf leicht verständliche Art den Aufbau eines kleinen, leistungsfähigen und sogar hervorragend "klingenden" Verstärkers auch dem Neuling auf diesem Gebiet nahe zu bringen. Ich versuche, es Ihm leicht zu machen diesen schnell und garantiert funktionierend nachzubauen - sofern Er sich an die vorgegebenen Angaben und Zeichnungen hält...)

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Vom Stephan erhielt ich eine rieige Menge Funkschau-Schaltungen - eine davon ist der Vorverstärker S 59 A von Revox. Eine im einzelnen hochinteressante Schaltung - aber selbstverständlich auch die Gesamtschaltung ist hochinteressant.
    - Danke, Stephan!

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Der Röhrenhersteller SEL - Standard Elektrik Lorenz - entwickelt damals eine hervorragende Schaltung zur ECLL800, ebenfalls entwickelte sie einen hervorragenden Übertrager dazu. Dieser Übertrager wurde im übrigen der "Urvater", er wurde zum Standard der meisten Übertrager. Der Franzis-Verlag hatte es sich einiges kosten lassen damals, diese Schaltung in seinen Büchern veröffentlichen zu können - die SEL-Leute zierten sich besonders wegen den Übertrager-Wickeldaten...

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Vom Rainer Fredel, Dipl.-Ing. und Inhaber einer hervorragend ausgestatteten Werkstatt in Bonn, erhielt ich vor einiger Zeit die nachfolgenden Fotos, mitsamt Schaltbild und einer kurzen Beschreibung eines uralten Kinoverstärkers Namens V12 der Fa. MWL – Radio in Lensahn / Ostfriesland. Ein interessantes Gerät!
     

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Old Palo Altan

  6. Because nobody else in the world would want to move to Germany.

    Germany could do what Japan has done (at least in the past) and welcome ethnic Germans from overseas if they have a labor shortage that higher wages alone won’t fix.

    Brazilian Germans might even go back to Brazil after a few years of banking coin in Germany.

    • Replies: @Lo
    @Dave Pinsen

    Brazilian Germans are having a good life in Brazil, why would they go to Germany and become lower class?

    , @Not Raul
    @Dave Pinsen

    Afrikaner electricians could move to Germany. Afrikaans isn’t so different from German.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  7. 216 says:

    Of those who do work, many have taken low-paid jobs at restaurants, in warehouses or in the gig economy, performing on-demand deliveries.

    Increasing automation in this sector could fundamentally undermine the demand for coolie labor in the First World.

    The proper thing to do is pay the Syrians to repatriate and rebuild their own country.

    • Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike
    @216

    Don't go using the word "repatriation" in this neck of the woods. Fastest way to get your future comments moderated for 24 - 72 hours.

    Replies: @216

    , @Alden
    @216

    The people who lived in Syria 6,000 years ago built Syria and it flourished.

    Then the Arab Muslims came.

    The End

  8. Total bullshit. Merkel is a childless woman who is full of hatred for the Europe that ruined her life as a young girl with dreams. She is a POS. The irony is, not even a virile Muslim man would want to tie his ship to that old vessel. She banked on Hillary and both got nuthin because the world does not like Communism or old women…or old men. They should all hurry up and die as the world is getting more evil and angry thanks to them!!!!

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Lagertha

    AGREED, Lagertha. Merkel was from old establisment-Commie stock and got degrees in Physical Chemistry. She can't be stupid, so that'd make her evil then. She's got a lot of blood on her hands. As for her suitability as "life partner", I wouldn't go near her with Emmanuel Macron's 10 ft. pole.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @PiltdownMan, @Dtbb

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @Lagertha

    Lagertha, don't hold it in. How do you really feel about Merkel?

  9. @Hypnotoad666

    Nearly four years after German Chancellor Angela Merkel chose to leave the country’s borders open amid a vast influx of asylum seekers to Europe, a significant majority of the approximately 1.5 million people who have arrived since remain out of the labor force. …
     
    So, after four years well over half of the refugees are doing nothing but mooching off the German welfare system. I'd say the results of the experiment are in.

    The rest of the article is just nonsense happy-talk.

    Replies: @216, @Pericles

    Absent a renewed economic downturn, anti-immigration sentiment will remain low.

    In an OK-to-good economy, the average person follows the lead of the press, blaming the right for being “divisive” when it criticizes immigration.

    • Agree: Dieter Kief, Old Prude
  10. Poland and Romania have labor shortages too.

    Lots of Ukranians are being recruited to work across Europe.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    Poland and Romania have labor shortages too.
     
    There are no labor shortages anywhere. There are only labor shortages at a given price. Econ 101, remember?

    Raise the price until either the shortage or the demand dissipates.

    Replies: @Anon, @International Jew, @216, @Digital Samizdat, @Louis Renault, @Jack D, @obwandiyag

    , @Anonymous
    @Anon

    Why not 'cut out the middle man' and bring in the Ukrainians direct, instead of sending Poles to England and then replacing the lost Poles with Ukrainians?

    Surely, this whole sick joke just shows the absurdity of Economist style uncontrolled immigration.

  11. OT:

    (Stoller is a lefty, and a good one)

    • Agree: ic1000
    • Replies: @ic1000
    @Desiderius

    Thanks for the links to Matt Stoller and Sen. Hawley, Desiderius. My reply is in the next ('Warren Buffett') iSteve thread, where this subject isn't off-topic at all.

    , @Kevin O'Keeffe
    @Desiderius

    I got the impression during the last election, that this Hawley fellow was destined for political stardom. Maybe even a future Presidency. I will watch this with interest when I get home.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  12. But with the national unemployment rate at a 30-year-low, young Germans have lost their appetite for vocational training.

    German precision lathes are rusting in the workshops.

    • LOL: Redneck farmer
  13. Because nobody else in the world would want to move to Germany.

    Nobody would want to anymore.

  14. Around the time of Merkel’s Mangy Mufti Merkin, Swedish news reported on their own country’s successful importation of skilled workers.

    Fredrik Ahl (at 2:00) :

    People coming to Sweden have never been as well educated as they are now, according to the research done by the Swedish national television. Those who arrive are often qualified engineers, doctors, and kebab technicians.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3111295/Newsreader-forced-apologise-referring-immigrants-kebab-technicians-air-recording-accidentally-beamed-viewers-Sweden.html

  15. https://wp.me/sapuj6-1

    Google translation:

    Immigration consequences in Berlin and Germany

    – Without graduation: 20% of German Turks, (Berlin: 75%)

    – Unemployed German Turks: 48%, (Berlin: 50%), Almost every second unemployed person has a migration background.

    – Catastrophic school performance: 54% of all children with MiHiGru

    – Functional illiterates: 20% of all fourth graders (Berlin: 75% of all third graders)

    – More than 60% of Berlin police students fail in the German dictation

    – Infant mortality in Neukölln is nearly twice as high as in Restberlin as a result of early childhood developmental disorders

    – 51% of convicted offenders are foreigners (nationwide: 30%), 75% of suspects. Offenders and suspects with a migration background are not included. The prisons are overcrowded, disproportionate with Muslims and refugees.

    – One in three recipients of Hartz IV (welfare) is foreigners, non-migrant workers are not included.

    see website for sources and links.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @theo the kraut


    54% of all children with MiHiGru
     
    MiHiGru sounds deadlier than Ebola. Are there vaccines?

    Replies: @Digital Samizdat, @RadicalCenter

    , @Anon
    @theo the kraut

    What percent of the youth in Berlin are Muslim?

    Replies: @theo the kraut

    , @Anonymous
    @theo the kraut

    Don't worry. Soon the Washington Post will move the goalposts and tell everyone that it's the next generation of Arabs, er Germans that are going to save the German economy.

    What's that? Germany has decades worth of education data saying that the offspring of these refugees(and I use that term loosely) will never, on average, get anywhere close to the academic achievement of your average ethnic German pupil, even when they're born in Germany?

    Then it must be the fault of Germany's notoriously low-quality, immigrant-unfriendly education system that these German-born Muslims are failing to achieve academic parity!

    Wait, so you're saying that the most recent round of PISA testing indicates that German-born Poles have the exact same levels of academic proficiency as their ethnic German classmates?

    And on and on...

    See, when you have a narrative to push, you can just make up anything and hope it will stick, because even though WaPo and NYT readers pride themselves on being the smartest in the nation, they're actually the intellectually lazy people in the English-speaking world.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @CAL2

    , @AceDeuce
    @theo the kraut

    When I was working in the Netherlands back in the mid 90s, the Dutch used to say the Turks flooding the Netherlands were like sperm--thousands came in at a time, and only one worked.

  16. >> Ramadan, who serves as a volunteer firefighter in Hanover when he’s not brushing up on one of his five languages or teaching himself math or physics online, acknowledges that he’s unusual among refugees.

    Indeed.

  17. TGGP says: • Website

    Germany appears to have a pretty good vocational system. In the U.S variations in standards for occupational credentials appears to have no correlation with actual safety. Part of that is so many people being grandfathered in after said standards are put in place, which makes economists suspect that the rules are more about adding barriers to entry rather than protecting the public.

    • Agree: fish
  18. @Anonymous

    Ramadan, who serves as a volunteer firefighter in Hanover when he’s not brushing up on one of his five languages or teaching himself math or physics online, acknowledges that he’s unusual among refugees.
     
    Who is supporting Ramadan? Does he have any income at all?

    Replies: @Alden, @bomag

    Ramadan’s on welfare obviously

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Alden


    Ramadan’s on welfare obviously.
     
    Yeah, and he's the best success story the WaPo could find to be the face of "immigrant success" for their article.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @Known Fact

  19. An acquaintance of mine works in a government-sponsored job-training program, that is mostly filled with “refugees” these days. In his estimation about 10 to 15 percent of the people he encounters in the program will ever get a real job, even though the German economy is really strong right now and in a lot of places qualified workers are scarce. In addition to the really low level of education, there are some cultural factors as well, that make it really hard for the people to find a real job. Most of the people, that are in his courses massively overestimate their own capabilities to the point, where it is laughable. He had an Iraqi, who thought that he could work in IT, because he had used a computer a few times in Iraq. Additionally, most are not able to take criticism, but take any criticism of the mismatch between their skills and their job-wishes personally.

    • Replies: @jim jones
    @GermanReader2

    The German economy is not doing well:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47802235

    , @Jack D
    @GermanReader2

    It's very hard to offer Western style constructive criticism to people who are from a "face" or shame based culture - they don't take it well. But probably there are culturally appropriate ways of instructing them that don't involve a loss of face.

    But that's not the real problem. The real problem that they are importing stupid people into a technological society. Low intelligence is an incurable (and often hereditary) condition. There was a time (even in the '50s and '60s when the Germans were bringing in guest workers from Turkey) that all an immigrant needed was a strong back so that he could stand all day and bolt the wheels onto the VWs moving down the assembly line. But if you want to train people in how to code or practice some skilled trade, you are never going to be able to train sub-90 IQ people to do it, even if they weren't poorly educated refugees from a different culture and language. This is why even 2nd and 3rd generation Turks are problematic. In some respects the next generation is even worse because at least the original immigrants have a work ethic and are used to hard manual labor from their rural upbringing.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @nebulafox

  20. @Anon
    Poland and Romania have labor shortages too.

    Lots of Ukranians are being recruited to work across Europe.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous

    Poland and Romania have labor shortages too.

    There are no labor shortages anywhere. There are only labor shortages at a given price. Econ 101, remember?

    Raise the price until either the shortage or the demand dissipates.

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Anon
    @Reg Cæsar

    Since the 80s, America's policy
    Has been to lower wages as much as will be tolerated. Other countries have followed suit.

    , @International Jew
    @Reg Cæsar

    All my life I've been frustrated by a shortage on the demand side of the labor market; there aren't nearly enough employers willing to pay me $1000/hour for my services!

    Replies: @216

    , @216
    @Reg Cæsar

    https://geoawesomeness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Average-wage-rates-in-Europe.jpg

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Digital Samizdat
    @Reg Cæsar

    But ... but … corporate profits! Maximizing shareholder-value! What are you? Some kinda communiss?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Louis Renault
    @Reg Cæsar

    The current price for labor is German civilization. Can't get much higher than that.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    , @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    Right, Econ 101 - the simplified introductory course where what they teach you doesn't match the real world. Let's say tomorrow all the employers in America decided that they needed twice as many plumbers and doubled the wage for licensed plumbers. The supply of plumbers is fixed in the short run - raising their wage doesn't magically increase the # of plumbers available overnight. People around here poo poo the idea of "labor shortage" and assume it is just employers being cheap but in the short run it is a real thing. If you offer higher wages for some skilled occupation you might be able to lure employees away from another employer but that is just moving the shortage around.

    And employers seeking cheap(er) labor is a natural thing and not evil in itself - the entire history of American capitalism involved employers seeking cheap (and plentiful) imported labor to build the railroads, dig coal, etc. Looking for cheap labor is what capitalists do. It may be the duty of the society to restrain them in some way (e.g. prohibit slavery) but it's natural that employers would rather be able to fill positions (with immigrants if necessary) at current wages rather than fill their ranks by offering higher wages and squeeze their profit margins. And higher wages often set off an inflationary spiral - you raise wages and you raise prices. Everyone raises prices and the workers' new higher paychecks aren't worth any more than their old paychecks.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @istevefan, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Achmed E. Newman, @Reg Cæsar

    , @obwandiyag
    @Reg Cæsar

    Exactly right, and this is a leftist point.

    I like the imbecile respondent to you who doesn't want to make more money. Probably because he is best friends with billionaires.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  21. On both counts, early indications have been promising, if inconclusive.

    Nearly four years after German Chancellor Angela Merkel chose to leave the country’s borders open amid a vast influx of asylum seekers to Europe, a significant majority of the approximately 1.5 million people who have arrived since remain out of the labor force.

    Seems pretty conclusive to me!

    Ramadan, who serves as a volunteer firefighter in Hanover

    Uh-oh.

    • Replies: @Ghost of Bull Moose
    @International Jew

    He may be unclear on the meaning of ‘fire fighter’

  22. @theo the kraut
    https://wp.me/sapuj6-1

    Google translation:

    Immigration consequences in Berlin and Germany

    - Without graduation: 20% of German Turks, (Berlin: 75%)

    - Unemployed German Turks: 48%, (Berlin: 50%), Almost every second unemployed person has a migration background.

    - Catastrophic school performance: 54% of all children with MiHiGru

    - Functional illiterates: 20% of all fourth graders (Berlin: 75% of all third graders)

    - More than 60% of Berlin police students fail in the German dictation

    - Infant mortality in Neukölln is nearly twice as high as in Restberlin as a result of early childhood developmental disorders

    - 51% of convicted offenders are foreigners (nationwide: 30%), 75% of suspects. Offenders and suspects with a migration background are not included. The prisons are overcrowded, disproportionate with Muslims and refugees.

    - One in three recipients of Hartz IV (welfare) is foreigners, non-migrant workers are not included.

    see website for sources and links.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anon, @Anonymous, @AceDeuce

    54% of all children with MiHiGru

    MiHiGru sounds deadlier than Ebola. Are there vaccines?

    • Replies: @Digital Samizdat
    @Reg Cæsar


    MiHiGru sounds deadlier than Ebola. Are there vaccines?
     
    MiHiGru = Migrationshintergrund (immigrant background)

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @RadicalCenter
    @Reg Cæsar

    There's always the Salvini vaccine. But we need to see whether the Italians keep taking that, and there seems to be little hope for the Germans taking a similar vaccine.

  23. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    Poland and Romania have labor shortages too.
     
    There are no labor shortages anywhere. There are only labor shortages at a given price. Econ 101, remember?

    Raise the price until either the shortage or the demand dissipates.

    Replies: @Anon, @International Jew, @216, @Digital Samizdat, @Louis Renault, @Jack D, @obwandiyag

    Since the 80s, America’s policy
    Has been to lower wages as much as will be tolerated. Other countries have followed suit.

  24. I wonder how Syrian electricians stack up against Indian ones. Just asking…

    http://www.barcroft.tv/tangled-electricity-cables-old-delhi-india

    • Replies: @Anon
    @International Jew

    The funny thing is that Germany was planning on recruiting mass amounts of labor from India. Instead of Indians, they ended up with Syrians.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Old Prude
    @International Jew

    That is truly impressive! I feel pretty good now about the Romex I ran in the barn twenty-five years ago.

    , @Mr. Anon
    @International Jew

    Maybe Prince Phillip had a point:

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/aug/11/monarchy.gerardseenan

  25. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    Poland and Romania have labor shortages too.
     
    There are no labor shortages anywhere. There are only labor shortages at a given price. Econ 101, remember?

    Raise the price until either the shortage or the demand dissipates.

    Replies: @Anon, @International Jew, @216, @Digital Samizdat, @Louis Renault, @Jack D, @obwandiyag

    All my life I’ve been frustrated by a shortage on the demand side of the labor market; there aren’t nearly enough employers willing to pay me $1000/hour for my services!

    • Replies: @216
    @International Jew

    Try being a camgirl, there's an ocean of male thirst out there.

  26. Wow! I’m amazed!

    Totally worth all the rapes.

    • LOL: Digital Samizdat
    • Replies: @Jonathan Silber
    @Don't Look at Me

    Totally worth all the rapes.

    Well worth it if even one deadbeat Syrian is able to brush up on his foreign languages.

  27. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    Poland and Romania have labor shortages too.
     
    There are no labor shortages anywhere. There are only labor shortages at a given price. Econ 101, remember?

    Raise the price until either the shortage or the demand dissipates.

    Replies: @Anon, @International Jew, @216, @Digital Samizdat, @Louis Renault, @Jack D, @obwandiyag

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @216

    Liechtenstein is king? Turkey tops Hungary?

    Replies: @216

  28. The government started allowing Turks in for jobs in 1961 on two-year contracts (to “help the economy”). Of the 3/4 million who came on this scheme, about half went back as expected. The 325,000 who remained have expanded in 60 years into the largest “ethnic minority” in Germany. The consensus is there are at least 4 million full or partial Turks in the country today (or 5% of the population).

    theo the kraut’s statistics are accurate and show how positive the Turk has been for Germany’s economy.

    So the question we must now ask is how many generations will it take this current invading force (or Ramadan the multilingual welders) to attain the same stellar immigrationsfolgen (immigration consequences)?

    And how many Ramadan’s will there be by 2078 (60 years)?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Change that Matters

    The salient fact is that the big majority of Turks in Germany *never* came as labor migrants.
    No. They are 'legacy' immigrants brought in under the ruse of 'family reunification'.
    Most came after 'labor immigration officially ended' back in the mid 70s.

    There's a moral there somewhere.

    , @Alice in Wonderland
    @Change that Matters


    And how many Ramadan’s will there be by 2078 (60 years)?
     
    God willing, zero.

    Germans have already demonstrated that they can and will remove foreigners if they decide to.
    , @KenH
    @Change that Matters

    And from what I understand the Turks living in Germany are just that, Turks. They are hostile to Germans and Germany and retain a fierce loyalty to Turkey and Islam. They're also violent and cause much trouble in German schools.

    They need to be mass deported.

  29. @International Jew
    @Reg Cæsar

    All my life I've been frustrated by a shortage on the demand side of the labor market; there aren't nearly enough employers willing to pay me $1000/hour for my services!

    Replies: @216

    Try being a camgirl, there’s an ocean of male thirst out there.

  30. Anon[222] • Disclaimer says:

    I wonder if this is still true, since Japanese have gotten a lot taller since I immigrated there. At 5-10 I used to be the tallest person on almost any commuter train, but no more. And there are a lot of tall women, in flat shoes (the first thing I always look at when confronted with one of these statuesque Amazons). There are a good number of tall Japanese up through the mid-40s, and a smattering of ramrod straight tall Japanese male seniors.

    (Japanese dental care has also massively improved.)

    Whenever I read any sort of trans-national comparison, the first thing I think is not, Is that true?, but How do they know it’s true? Where do you get a representative sample of data?

    From Wikipedia I see that the only data they can find for Japan is government data from measuring all high school seniors at age 17. Age 17 is not a bad age to do it, but you get most people before they go off to college or jobs, minus drop-outs, and a small number of private school kids.

    Korean data comes from Size Korea, a nonprofit that supplies industry with anthropometric data. They exhaustively measure a sample (n=15,000) group. The last time they did this was in 2000.

    These two data sets show that Japanese and Koreans are the same height as of the early 2010s, 5-7 for men. However, there is a second data set only for the capital city of Seoul for 2017 that has men at 5-8.5. This appears to be from KOSIS another industrial statistics vendor.

    There are probably Japanese data vendors for industy, but Wikipedia hasn’t included them.

    At any rate, we have what seems like a truly exhaustive data set from Japan (but from a demographically narrow slice, 17 year olds), compared to two sampled sets from Korea. The nationwide one shows no difference with the nationwide Japanese one. I think you would have to really dig down into each set’s methodology and other factors to be confident the two numbers are comparable.

    So I think the jury is out on the “Koreans are taller” trope.

    And then there is the sudden and disturbing shift in the Japanese diet exemplified by Ikinari Steak:

    https://ikinaristeakusa.com

    In its orignal Japanese manifestation, this was a fast casual restaurant with no tables, just long standing-only, tall feeding-trough-style counters, where you specified your quality and cut and kilograms of beef, and the cutter hacked off the amount you ordered, cooked it (barely) and gave it to you to scarf while standing up. And these shops were full of young women.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Anon

    --the Koreans are growing
    --they are now just taller than Japanese
    --... the Koreans appear to have stopped growing

    , @Lurker
    @Anon

    Years ago me and my friends found ourselves playing paintball against a group who were assorted NATO military (mostly US plus German & British) The tallest and most aggressive one of them all
    (a US marine iirc) was of Korean origin.

    , @Sleep
    @Anon

    I expect the natural maximum height for Koreans would be just a smidgen taller, since the Japanese are known to have a significant amount of aboriginal Jomon ancestry .... perhaps about 30%. But the difference is likely small enough that environmental factors could keep the ratio wobbling back and forth.

  31. @International Jew
    I wonder how Syrian electricians stack up against Indian ones. Just asking...
    https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/assets.barcroft.tv/57d2ee0c-6e2f-4f21-bd34-f54a4dfa008f.jpg
    http://www.barcroft.tv/tangled-electricity-cables-old-delhi-india

    Replies: @Anon, @Old Prude, @Mr. Anon

    The funny thing is that Germany was planning on recruiting mass amounts of labor from India. Instead of Indians, they ended up with Syrians.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anon

    "Kinder Keiner Inder".

    Replies: @eah, @Joe Schmoe

  32. @theo the kraut
    https://wp.me/sapuj6-1

    Google translation:

    Immigration consequences in Berlin and Germany

    - Without graduation: 20% of German Turks, (Berlin: 75%)

    - Unemployed German Turks: 48%, (Berlin: 50%), Almost every second unemployed person has a migration background.

    - Catastrophic school performance: 54% of all children with MiHiGru

    - Functional illiterates: 20% of all fourth graders (Berlin: 75% of all third graders)

    - More than 60% of Berlin police students fail in the German dictation

    - Infant mortality in Neukölln is nearly twice as high as in Restberlin as a result of early childhood developmental disorders

    - 51% of convicted offenders are foreigners (nationwide: 30%), 75% of suspects. Offenders and suspects with a migration background are not included. The prisons are overcrowded, disproportionate with Muslims and refugees.

    - One in three recipients of Hartz IV (welfare) is foreigners, non-migrant workers are not included.

    see website for sources and links.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anon, @Anonymous, @AceDeuce

    What percent of the youth in Berlin are Muslim?

    • Replies: @theo the kraut
    @Anon

    As 75% of all Berlin third graders are functionally illiterate and 75% of adult Berlin Turks didn't finish school that should be around 75%, but else I don't know of exact numbers.

    Official stats from 2011, children under 6 with migrant background:

    https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/Bevoelkerung/MigrationIntegration/BevoelkerungMigrationsstatus5125203117004.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

    Bevölkerung unter 6 Jahren nach Migrationsstatus regional
    Ergebnisse des Mikrozensus 2011

    German states:

    Baden-Württemberg: 43,22%
    Bayern: 34,23%
    Berlin: 43,82%
    Bremen: 57,58%
    Hamburg: 48,94%
    Hessen: 46,28%
    Niedersachsen: 31,32%
    Nordrhein-Westfalen: 42,99%
    Rheinland-Pfalz: 34,72%
    Saarland: 32,50%
    The five new states of the former GDR: 9,66%

    Total: 38,66%

    Some major cities:

    Augsburg: 61,54%
    Dortmund: 53,33%
    Duisburg: 57,14%
    Düsseldorf: 50,00%
    Essen: 50,00%
    Frankfurt am Main: 75,61% (!)
    Hannover: 46,67%
    Köln: 50,98%
    München: 58,44%
    Nürnberg: 51,85%
    Stuttgart: 56,67%

    Replies: @Dtbb, @Anon

  33. eah says:

    Typische Lügenpresse — but if you read it closely you can get the true picture: …a significant majority of the approximately 1.5 million people who have arrived since remain out of the labor force… — so the focus on the few who may be in some kind of training seems misplaced: they are a tiny minority — the rest do nothing but exist at the expense of German taxpayers: housing, food, medical care, literally everything, including ‘integration’ efforts, also paid for by taxpayers — there is another huge, separate bureaucracy responsible for coordinating that, as well as literally hundreds of companies that have sprung up to get in on this modern alchemy scam, taking taxpayer money for a promise to try to turn ignorant, often illiterate muslims and Africans into German workers — And he is getting paid to do it by a company dangling the promise of a job… — companies don’t pay out of their own pockets — German taxpayers subsidize this via the ‘integration’ bureaucracy mentioned above — this is necessary because it’s well known that a big majority either break off the training or otherwise do not finish successfully, so companies will not take that financial hit/risk.

    Monatlich 5250 Euro pro minderjährigem unbegleitetem Flüchtling — the average MUFL (minderjähriger unbegleiteter Flüchtling) costs > 5k euros/month.

    „Seit Jahren steigt die Zahl der sozialversicherungspflichtig Beschäftigten, die nicht genug verdienen, um im Alter auf eine Rente oberhalb der Grundsicherung zu kommen“, sagte AfD-Sozialexperte René Springer dem RND.

    The number of workers paying into the pension system but earning so little that their pension will be less than they would get on welfare has been growing for years — all of these Flüchtlinge, who will at best be Geringverdiener (low earners), will make that problem worse.

    From Bild recently: 11m elderly Germans face poverty (Altersarmut) because their pension is going to be too small — Mohammed is the most common name given to babies born in Berlin — note the foto.

    • Replies: @eah
    @eah

    https://twitter.com/Netzdenunziant/status/1116450102749605894

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @eah

  34. @Anon
    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1125312761058119680

    I wonder if this is still true, since Japanese have gotten a lot taller since I immigrated there. At 5-10 I used to be the tallest person on almost any commuter train, but no more. And there are a lot of tall women, in flat shoes (the first thing I always look at when confronted with one of these statuesque Amazons). There are a good number of tall Japanese up through the mid-40s, and a smattering of ramrod straight tall Japanese male seniors.

    (Japanese dental care has also massively improved.)

    Whenever I read any sort of trans-national comparison, the first thing I think is not, Is that true?, but How do they know it's true? Where do you get a representative sample of data?

    From Wikipedia I see that the only data they can find for Japan is government data from measuring all high school seniors at age 17. Age 17 is not a bad age to do it, but you get most people before they go off to college or jobs, minus drop-outs, and a small number of private school kids.

    Korean data comes from Size Korea, a nonprofit that supplies industry with anthropometric data. They exhaustively measure a sample (n=15,000) group. The last time they did this was in 2000.

    These two data sets show that Japanese and Koreans are the same height as of the early 2010s, 5-7 for men. However, there is a second data set only for the capital city of Seoul for 2017 that has men at 5-8.5. This appears to be from KOSIS another industrial statistics vendor.

    There are probably Japanese data vendors for industy, but Wikipedia hasn't included them.

    At any rate, we have what seems like a truly exhaustive data set from Japan (but from a demographically narrow slice, 17 year olds), compared to two sampled sets from Korea. The nationwide one shows no difference with the nationwide Japanese one. I think you would have to really dig down into each set's methodology and other factors to be confident the two numbers are comparable.

    So I think the jury is out on the "Koreans are taller" trope.

    And then there is the sudden and disturbing shift in the Japanese diet exemplified by Ikinari Steak:

    https://ikinaristeakusa.com

    In its orignal Japanese manifestation, this was a fast casual restaurant with no tables, just long standing-only, tall feeding-trough-style counters, where you specified your quality and cut and kilograms of beef, and the cutter hacked off the amount you ordered, cooked it (barely) and gave it to you to scarf while standing up. And these shops were full of young women.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Lurker, @Sleep

    –the Koreans are growing
    –they are now just taller than Japanese
    –… the Koreans appear to have stopped growing

  35. @Alden
    @Anonymous

    Ramadan’s on welfare obviously

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    Ramadan’s on welfare obviously.

    Yeah, and he’s the best success story the WaPo could find to be the face of “immigrant success” for their article.

    • Replies: @Jim Don Bob
    @Hypnotoad666


    Yeah, and he’s the best success story the WaPo could find to be the face of “immigrant success” for their article.
     
    Maybe PhysicistDave can get him a job once he's through learning physics in his spare time.
    , @Known Fact
    @Hypnotoad666

    NPR is probably tracking him down right now for a worshipful 12-minute piece on All Things Considered

  36. Anonymous[396] • Disclaimer says:
    @theo the kraut
    https://wp.me/sapuj6-1

    Google translation:

    Immigration consequences in Berlin and Germany

    - Without graduation: 20% of German Turks, (Berlin: 75%)

    - Unemployed German Turks: 48%, (Berlin: 50%), Almost every second unemployed person has a migration background.

    - Catastrophic school performance: 54% of all children with MiHiGru

    - Functional illiterates: 20% of all fourth graders (Berlin: 75% of all third graders)

    - More than 60% of Berlin police students fail in the German dictation

    - Infant mortality in Neukölln is nearly twice as high as in Restberlin as a result of early childhood developmental disorders

    - 51% of convicted offenders are foreigners (nationwide: 30%), 75% of suspects. Offenders and suspects with a migration background are not included. The prisons are overcrowded, disproportionate with Muslims and refugees.

    - One in three recipients of Hartz IV (welfare) is foreigners, non-migrant workers are not included.

    see website for sources and links.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anon, @Anonymous, @AceDeuce

    Don’t worry. Soon the Washington Post will move the goalposts and tell everyone that it’s the next generation of Arabs, er Germans that are going to save the German economy.

    What’s that? Germany has decades worth of education data saying that the offspring of these refugees(and I use that term loosely) will never, on average, get anywhere close to the academic achievement of your average ethnic German pupil, even when they’re born in Germany?

    Then it must be the fault of Germany’s notoriously low-quality, immigrant-unfriendly education system that these German-born Muslims are failing to achieve academic parity!

    Wait, so you’re saying that the most recent round of PISA testing indicates that German-born Poles have the exact same levels of academic proficiency as their ethnic German classmates?

    And on and on…

    See, when you have a narrative to push, you can just make up anything and hope it will stick, because even though WaPo and NYT readers pride themselves on being the smartest in the nation, they’re actually the intellectually lazy people in the English-speaking world.

    • Agree: GermanReader2
    • Replies: @Wilkey
    @Anonymous

    Don’t worry. Soon the Washington Post will move the goalposts and tell everyone that it’s the next generation of Arabs, er Germans that are going to save the German economy.

    Which raises an important question: most of the refugees we saw arriving 4 years ago were men - like 80% or more of them. Presumably a lot of them applied to have their spouses, fiances, child-brides, parents, children allowed in to join them. To what degree has that actually happened?

    For a lot of these refugees there can only be a second generation if the women who didn't come with them are allowed to join them. Has that been allowed to happen? If not, I suspect many of them (though not enough) will be returning home.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @CAL2
    @Anonymous

    I met some retired German teachers. Let's just say they were not complimentary of their Muslim students.

  37. Anonymous[364] • Disclaimer says:

    As that great and ancient Australian saying goes, “Those gits* wouldn’t work in an iron lung”.

    *Git. Pronounced with a ‘hard’ g old English slang exported to Australia, a mild expletive believed to be a contraction of ‘llegitimate’.

    • Replies: @Lurker
    @Anonymous

    'Git' - you still hear it from time to time but I'm not sure young folks use it now. Glad to hear it's still seeing action in Oz

    Replies: @al anon

  38. Anonymous[364] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    without knowing German — a notoriously difficult language
     
    To Anglophones, yes. But to speakers of Arabic? Urdu?


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages#Grammar


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindustani_grammar#Morphology

    Replies: @Anonymous, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous

    Actually, German is one of the easier European languages to learn.
    For a novice it might start off difficult, but it gets easier.

    You can’t say that for French, for instance, or even English – too many idiosyncrasies, nuances, colloquilliasms et .

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Anonymous

    You'll like this gem, from Brexit Central:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6995385/Doctors-pupils-sick-notes-duck-language-lessons-harm-mental-health.html

    , @Kent Nationalist
    @Anonymous

    Absolutely absurd claim.

    Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager

    , @Buzz Mohawk
    @Anonymous

    First of all, you are wrong. Second, try Hungarian.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @PiltdownMan
    @Anonymous


    You can’t say that for French, for instance, or even English – too many idiosyncrasies, nuances, colloquilliasms et .

     

    Henry Higgins had a few observations on the matter of learning to speak various languages.

    https://youtu.be/EAYUuspQ6BY

    , @ben tillman
    @Anonymous

    It's 10 times harder than Swedish and at least 5 times harder than Spanish, but I guess you could find some languages with different alphabets or Slavic or Ugric origins that might be harder, but surely it and English are the hardest of the Germanic and Romance languages.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Jack D

  39. @GermanReader2
    An acquaintance of mine works in a government-sponsored job-training program, that is mostly filled with "refugees" these days. In his estimation about 10 to 15 percent of the people he encounters in the program will ever get a real job, even though the German economy is really strong right now and in a lot of places qualified workers are scarce. In addition to the really low level of education, there are some cultural factors as well, that make it really hard for the people to find a real job. Most of the people, that are in his courses massively overestimate their own capabilities to the point, where it is laughable. He had an Iraqi, who thought that he could work in IT, because he had used a computer a few times in Iraq. Additionally, most are not able to take criticism, but take any criticism of the mismatch between their skills and their job-wishes personally.

    Replies: @jim jones, @Jack D

    The German economy is not doing well:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47802235

  40. Always a classic.

  41. Anonymous[364] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    Poland and Romania have labor shortages too.

    Lots of Ukranians are being recruited to work across Europe.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anonymous

    Why not ‘cut out the middle man’ and bring in the Ukrainians direct, instead of sending Poles to England and then replacing the lost Poles with Ukrainians?

    Surely, this whole sick joke just shows the absurdity of Economist style uncontrolled immigration.

  42. Anonymous[364] • Disclaimer says:
    @Change that Matters
    The government started allowing Turks in for jobs in 1961 on two-year contracts (to "help the economy"). Of the 3/4 million who came on this scheme, about half went back as expected. The 325,000 who remained have expanded in 60 years into the largest "ethnic minority" in Germany. The consensus is there are at least 4 million full or partial Turks in the country today (or 5% of the population).

    theo the kraut's statistics are accurate and show how positive the Turk has been for Germany's economy.

    So the question we must now ask is how many generations will it take this current invading force (or Ramadan the multilingual welders) to attain the same stellar immigrationsfolgen (immigration consequences)?

    And how many Ramadan's will there be by 2078 (60 years)?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Alice in Wonderland, @KenH

    The salient fact is that the big majority of Turks in Germany *never* came as labor migrants.
    No. They are ‘legacy’ immigrants brought in under the ruse of ‘family reunification’.
    Most came after ‘labor immigration officially ended’ back in the mid 70s.

    There’s a moral there somewhere.

  43. Anonymous[364] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anon
    @International Jew

    The funny thing is that Germany was planning on recruiting mass amounts of labor from India. Instead of Indians, they ended up with Syrians.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    “Kinder Keiner Inder”.

    • Replies: @eah
    @Anonymous

    The phrase (from approx 20 years ago, back in 2000) was 'Kinder statt Inder' -- which did not make much sense, since children would not help with the alleged immediate or looming shortage of skilled workers; but everyone got the idea -- and there never was a 'plan' to recruit mass numbers of Indians -- the talk back then was about the 'Green Card' initiative to generally open the German labor market to skilled foreigners from outside the EU -- of course if you're talking about eg HW/SW, then Indians come into the picture.

    The man who said that was Jürgen Rüttgers of the CDU in Nordrhein-Westfalen (NRW) -- recently data showed there are more migrants in NRW than in all of Italy.

    link

    At the link, new CDU-Chefin Merkel gives her opinion about 'Kinder statt Inder'.

    https://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,39852,00.jpg

    , @Joe Schmoe
    @Anonymous


    “Kinder Keiner Inder”.
     
    doch
  44. Anonymous[396] • Disclaimer says:

    young Germans have lost their appetite for vocational training. Companies face a shortage of skilled workers that could ultimately derail their growth.

    Have companies ever not faced a shortage of skilled workers in say, the last thirty years? The last century?

    But many young Germans are opting to bypass this traditional path to a middle-class life and gravitating toward university degrees instead. Last year, one-third of German companies said they had training spots that went unfilled as vacancies hit a 20-year high.

    What would really bolster their case here is if they provided some in-context numbers, which they don’t. Companies routinely exaggerate skill shortages, and in some some cases outright lie. How much higher is this skill shortage than previous ones? How does it compare to other European countries?

    You know who really needs skilled tradesmen for the construction industry? Syria.

    Other factors that hold down participation rates include the possibility that an asylum seeker could be deported. Few companies want to invest in a worker who is still applying for refugee protection and may be turned down.

    The German government has made some effort to ease that worry, instituting what is known as the 3-plus-2 rule: Rejected asylum seekers can stay in their traineeships for three years and work for at least two more without worrying about being shipped out. Proven skills and a work history can then be an advantage when they reapply to stay.

    Really, that seems like a massive incentive for fake refugees to enter training programs they have no intention of completing. Put in a few years shooting the breeze with your fellow Arabs, spend another couple driving an Uber, there’s no way they’ll throw you out after all that. So how many do they have signed up? How many apprentices do we have?

    The number who are either working or participating in a job training program has been growing, and was at more than 400,000 as of the end of 2018. Of those, 44,000 were enrolled in apprenticeships, according to German business groups.

    So just under 3% of the total arrivals, almost all of whom were young men of working age? Try harder WaPo.

    Also, from what I understand, the German definition of apprenticeship is waaaaaaay broader than in the English-speaking world, where apprentices are training for some skilled trade. Germany has apprenticeship for secretaries and salespeople. How much is that skewing the numbers?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous


    The number who are either working or participating in a job training program has been growing, and was at more than 400,000 as of the end of 2018. Of those, 44,000 were enrolled in apprenticeships, according to German business groups.
     
    "More than 400,000" probably means "slightly more," perhaps 402,000.
    Thus: labor participation rate including apprenticeships: 402,000/1,500,000 = 26.8%

    As noted in the post above, Germany prescribes apprenticeships for many jobs (e.g. secretary) that would not be considered skilled trades in the U.S.

    According to the above figures, the elite group of 358,000 out of the 1,500,000 welfare seekers who are somewhat employed generally do jobs that are NOT EVEN subject to apprenticeship training in Germany.

    The remaining 1,142,000 out of 1,500,000 are simply welfare scroungers, no doubt supported by the usual social worker activists who relish the warm glow they get from being generous with taxpayer money.

    Lastly, the figure of 1,500,000 is apparently dramatically UNDERSTATED as millions of "family reunification" claimants and accepted asylees (as opposed to asylum SEEKERS) are apparently dropped from labor statistics to make the total seem less threatening to boob-tube addicted normies.

  45. Goebbels would smile at that article, maybe not so much at the content, but surely at the craftsmanship.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  46. @Hypnotoad666

    Nearly four years after German Chancellor Angela Merkel chose to leave the country’s borders open amid a vast influx of asylum seekers to Europe, a significant majority of the approximately 1.5 million people who have arrived since remain out of the labor force. …
     
    So, after four years well over half of the refugees are doing nothing but mooching off the German welfare system. I'd say the results of the experiment are in.

    The rest of the article is just nonsense happy-talk.

    Replies: @216, @Pericles

    So, after four years well over half of the refugees are doing nothing but mooching off the German welfare system. I’d say the results of the experiment are in.

    After fifteen years in Sweden, it turns out half the immigrants have managed to get a job. It might not even be a full-time job. Muh pensions!

    Lol, what utter BS we have been fed all these years. These very smart elites don’t even care what lies they tell us.

  47. “German — a notoriously difficult language “: well I laughed. Perhaps it’s my age but all my family can, or could, read German. Most can speak it. Not as easy as Spanish, perhaps, but not really any more difficult than French or Italian.

  48. @Reg Cæsar

    without knowing German — a notoriously difficult language
     
    To Anglophones, yes. But to speakers of Arabic? Urdu?


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages#Grammar


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindustani_grammar#Morphology

    Replies: @Anonymous, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous

    “… without knowing German — a notoriously difficult language ….”

    I dunno, I found it easier than French, and there is no shortage of migrants there too.

    • Replies: @Digital Samizdat
    @The Alarmist

    France had lots of colonies in the 3rd world once, so there are probably more people worldwide who speak French than German.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

  49. @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    Actually, German is one of the easier European languages to learn.
    For a novice it might start off difficult, but it gets easier.

    You can't say that for French, for instance, or even English - too many idiosyncrasies, nuances, colloquilliasms et .

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Kent Nationalist, @Buzz Mohawk, @PiltdownMan, @ben tillman

  50. Electrical wiring rotting in the field!

  51. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    Poland and Romania have labor shortages too.
     
    There are no labor shortages anywhere. There are only labor shortages at a given price. Econ 101, remember?

    Raise the price until either the shortage or the demand dissipates.

    Replies: @Anon, @International Jew, @216, @Digital Samizdat, @Louis Renault, @Jack D, @obwandiyag

    But … but … corporate profits! Maximizing shareholder-value! What are you? Some kinda communiss?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Digital Samizdat

    Ahh, BS. I get your sarcasm, D.S., but it's kind of misplaced. Yes, they aren't that far from Communists, these Crony-Capitalist corporate honchos. If they didn't have the Socialist welfare state to pawn off all of the externalities on, they would NOT be able to import workers to do roofing at $10 / hr.

    Corporate profits can do just fine in a real capitalist economy (a free market) even at decent labor rates. Right now, Big-Biz goes for as low pay as possible as they have the welfare state (meaning native American taxpayers) to keep these people coming across the border, along with both squads (colors) of The Party too, of course.

    Anyway, to Reg Caesar, a BIG AGREE here!

  52. @The Alarmist
    @Reg Cæsar


    "... without knowing German — a notoriously difficult language ...."
     
    I dunno, I found it easier than French, and there is no shortage of migrants there too.

    Replies: @Digital Samizdat

    France had lots of colonies in the 3rd world once, so there are probably more people worldwide who speak French than German.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
    @Digital Samizdat

    The Germans had a few colonies; in fact, Barak Hussein Obama's home village is a mere hop, skip, and a jump away from what used to be German East Africa.

  53. @Reg Cæsar
    @theo the kraut


    54% of all children with MiHiGru
     
    MiHiGru sounds deadlier than Ebola. Are there vaccines?

    Replies: @Digital Samizdat, @RadicalCenter

    MiHiGru sounds deadlier than Ebola. Are there vaccines?

    MiHiGru = Migrationshintergrund (immigrant background)

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Digital Samizdat


    MiHiGru sounds deadlier than Ebola.
     

    MiHiGru = Migrationshintergrund (immigrant background)
     
    So, that's a "yes", then, deadlier than Ebola.
  54. @Anonymous

    Population of EU member Poland = 38 million. EU members Romania/Bulgaria = 27 million. Population of nearby non-EU member Ukraine 45 million.
     
    Most immigrants in Germany are from EU countries or non-EU European countries.

    This is also the case in countries like Sweden.

    https://twitter.com/turbovlach/status/1125476696285687809

    Replies: @Lurker, @Achmed E. Newman, @Buzz Mohawk, @ben tillman

    And how does that stack up against unemployment, crime, welfare etc?

  55. @Anon
    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1125312761058119680

    I wonder if this is still true, since Japanese have gotten a lot taller since I immigrated there. At 5-10 I used to be the tallest person on almost any commuter train, but no more. And there are a lot of tall women, in flat shoes (the first thing I always look at when confronted with one of these statuesque Amazons). There are a good number of tall Japanese up through the mid-40s, and a smattering of ramrod straight tall Japanese male seniors.

    (Japanese dental care has also massively improved.)

    Whenever I read any sort of trans-national comparison, the first thing I think is not, Is that true?, but How do they know it's true? Where do you get a representative sample of data?

    From Wikipedia I see that the only data they can find for Japan is government data from measuring all high school seniors at age 17. Age 17 is not a bad age to do it, but you get most people before they go off to college or jobs, minus drop-outs, and a small number of private school kids.

    Korean data comes from Size Korea, a nonprofit that supplies industry with anthropometric data. They exhaustively measure a sample (n=15,000) group. The last time they did this was in 2000.

    These two data sets show that Japanese and Koreans are the same height as of the early 2010s, 5-7 for men. However, there is a second data set only for the capital city of Seoul for 2017 that has men at 5-8.5. This appears to be from KOSIS another industrial statistics vendor.

    There are probably Japanese data vendors for industy, but Wikipedia hasn't included them.

    At any rate, we have what seems like a truly exhaustive data set from Japan (but from a demographically narrow slice, 17 year olds), compared to two sampled sets from Korea. The nationwide one shows no difference with the nationwide Japanese one. I think you would have to really dig down into each set's methodology and other factors to be confident the two numbers are comparable.

    So I think the jury is out on the "Koreans are taller" trope.

    And then there is the sudden and disturbing shift in the Japanese diet exemplified by Ikinari Steak:

    https://ikinaristeakusa.com

    In its orignal Japanese manifestation, this was a fast casual restaurant with no tables, just long standing-only, tall feeding-trough-style counters, where you specified your quality and cut and kilograms of beef, and the cutter hacked off the amount you ordered, cooked it (barely) and gave it to you to scarf while standing up. And these shops were full of young women.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Lurker, @Sleep

    Years ago me and my friends found ourselves playing paintball against a group who were assorted NATO military (mostly US plus German & British) The tallest and most aggressive one of them all
    (a US marine iirc) was of Korean origin.

  56. @Anonymous
    As that great and ancient Australian saying goes, "Those gits* wouldn't work in an iron lung".

    *Git. Pronounced with a 'hard' g old English slang exported to Australia, a mild expletive believed to be a contraction of 'llegitimate'.

    Replies: @Lurker

    ‘Git’ – you still hear it from time to time but I’m not sure young folks use it now. Glad to hear it’s still seeing action in Oz

    • Replies: @al anon
    @Lurker

    I believe "Git" is an arabic word referring to the product of a camel miscarriage.

  57. In our factory full of immigrants, the Serbians are the stars, the Cambodians and Vietnamese are less technically advanced, but damn hard workers. There are no Somalis left. I don’t know where they all went. I think they figured how to effectively suck a living off Uncle Sugar. There are some clever west Africans, but they all get out of the physical work into verbal work, like refugee assistance.

    We’re seeing the children of the first wave of refugees enter the work force. The Serbians are working for Space-X, I don’t know what the Cambodians are up to, but they aren’t applying for factory jobs. The Somalis, Iraqis and Africans kids, as another commenter stated, vastly over estimate their abilities. The public school system did nothing for them and keeps pushing them around like diversity chips, but they don’t really have the chops to be a CNC Machinist, much less a Tool and Die maker. Learning to code? Hey, I just figured out where all the Cambodian and Vietnamese kids are!

  58. @International Jew
    I wonder how Syrian electricians stack up against Indian ones. Just asking...
    https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/assets.barcroft.tv/57d2ee0c-6e2f-4f21-bd34-f54a4dfa008f.jpg
    http://www.barcroft.tv/tangled-electricity-cables-old-delhi-india

    Replies: @Anon, @Old Prude, @Mr. Anon

    That is truly impressive! I feel pretty good now about the Romex I ran in the barn twenty-five years ago.

  59. Anonymous[249] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous

    young Germans have lost their appetite for vocational training. Companies face a shortage of skilled workers that could ultimately derail their growth.
     
    Have companies ever not faced a shortage of skilled workers in say, the last thirty years? The last century?

    But many young Germans are opting to bypass this traditional path to a middle-class life and gravitating toward university degrees instead. Last year, one-third of German companies said they had training spots that went unfilled as vacancies hit a 20-year high.
     
    What would really bolster their case here is if they provided some in-context numbers, which they don't. Companies routinely exaggerate skill shortages, and in some some cases outright lie. How much higher is this skill shortage than previous ones? How does it compare to other European countries?

    You know who really needs skilled tradesmen for the construction industry? Syria.

    Other factors that hold down participation rates include the possibility that an asylum seeker could be deported. Few companies want to invest in a worker who is still applying for refugee protection and may be turned down.

    The German government has made some effort to ease that worry, instituting what is known as the 3-plus-2 rule: Rejected asylum seekers can stay in their traineeships for three years and work for at least two more without worrying about being shipped out. Proven skills and a work history can then be an advantage when they reapply to stay.
     
    Really, that seems like a massive incentive for fake refugees to enter training programs they have no intention of completing. Put in a few years shooting the breeze with your fellow Arabs, spend another couple driving an Uber, there's no way they'll throw you out after all that. So how many do they have signed up? How many apprentices do we have?

    The number who are either working or participating in a job training program has been growing, and was at more than 400,000 as of the end of 2018. Of those, 44,000 were enrolled in apprenticeships, according to German business groups.
     
    So just under 3% of the total arrivals, almost all of whom were young men of working age? Try harder WaPo.

    Also, from what I understand, the German definition of apprenticeship is waaaaaaay broader than in the English-speaking world, where apprentices are training for some skilled trade. Germany has apprenticeship for secretaries and salespeople. How much is that skewing the numbers?

    Replies: @Anonymous

    The number who are either working or participating in a job training program has been growing, and was at more than 400,000 as of the end of 2018. Of those, 44,000 were enrolled in apprenticeships, according to German business groups.

    “More than 400,000” probably means “slightly more,” perhaps 402,000.
    Thus: labor participation rate including apprenticeships: 402,000/1,500,000 = 26.8%

    As noted in the post above, Germany prescribes apprenticeships for many jobs (e.g. secretary) that would not be considered skilled trades in the U.S.

    According to the above figures, the elite group of 358,000 out of the 1,500,000 welfare seekers who are somewhat employed generally do jobs that are NOT EVEN subject to apprenticeship training in Germany.

    The remaining 1,142,000 out of 1,500,000 are simply welfare scroungers, no doubt supported by the usual social worker activists who relish the warm glow they get from being generous with taxpayer money.

    Lastly, the figure of 1,500,000 is apparently dramatically UNDERSTATED as millions of “family reunification” claimants and accepted asylees (as opposed to asylum SEEKERS) are apparently dropped from labor statistics to make the total seem less threatening to boob-tube addicted normies.

  60. @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    Actually, German is one of the easier European languages to learn.
    For a novice it might start off difficult, but it gets easier.

    You can't say that for French, for instance, or even English - too many idiosyncrasies, nuances, colloquilliasms et .

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Kent Nationalist, @Buzz Mohawk, @PiltdownMan, @ben tillman

    Absolutely absurd claim.

    • Agree: eah
    • Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager
    @Kent Nationalist


    You can’t say that for French, for instance, or even English – too many idiosyncrasies, nuances, colloquilliasms et .
     
    I'll take all of that over the myriad of "cases" in German, danke schön .
  61. @216

    Of those who do work, many have taken low-paid jobs at restaurants, in warehouses or in the gig economy, performing on-demand deliveries.
     
    Increasing automation in this sector could fundamentally undermine the demand for coolie labor in the First World.

    The proper thing to do is pay the Syrians to repatriate and rebuild their own country.

    Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike, @Alden

    Don’t go using the word “repatriation” in this neck of the woods. Fastest way to get your future comments moderated for 24 – 72 hours.

    • Replies: @216
    @MikeatMikedotMike

    Gotcha,

    Is "reparations" ok?

  62. “But the allure of a quick paycheck remains strong”. High Time Preference, not just for SSAs anymore!

    • Replies: @GermanReader2
    @Redneck farmer

    Imo, most low iq people have high time preference.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @res

  63. eah says:
    @Anonymous
    @Anon

    "Kinder Keiner Inder".

    Replies: @eah, @Joe Schmoe

    The phrase (from approx 20 years ago, back in 2000) was ‘Kinder statt Inder’ — which did not make much sense, since children would not help with the alleged immediate or looming shortage of skilled workers; but everyone got the idea — and there never was a ‘plan’ to recruit mass numbers of Indians — the talk back then was about the ‘Green Card’ initiative to generally open the German labor market to skilled foreigners from outside the EU — of course if you’re talking about eg HW/SW, then Indians come into the picture.

    The man who said that was Jürgen Rüttgers of the CDU in Nordrhein-Westfalen (NRW) — recently data showed there are more migrants in NRW than in all of Italy.

    link

    At the link, new CDU-Chefin Merkel gives her opinion about ‘Kinder statt Inder’.

  64. @Redneck farmer
    "But the allure of a quick paycheck remains strong". High Time Preference, not just for SSAs anymore!

    Replies: @GermanReader2

    Imo, most low iq people have high time preference.

    • Replies: @Redneck farmer
    @GermanReader2

    True.

    , @res
    @GermanReader2


    Imo, most low iq people have high time preference.
     
    Agreed. Any idea what drives the relationship? Are there any studies on that?

    Study I would like to see. At about age 5 administer a large group of children both the marshmallow test and an IQ test. 40 years later evaluate how their relative success varied by the test results. Also evaluate how their age 45 results on both tests (or equivalents) compare to their age 5 results.
  65. Christian Syrians from the coastal & Lebanon-adjacent mountains seem fairly bright, but I’d guess most of the ‘refugees’ are Sunni from the inner deserts. Probably looking at median IQs around 90 or a bit lower, given Turkish median IQ is around 90. So not a lot of highly skilled workers, though not the worst. Non-Syrian fake refugees will likely average lower.

    • Replies: @GermanReader2
    @Simon in London

    The average iq in Syria is around 82.

    , @Anonymous
    @Simon in London

    It would be nice... Unfortunately the real number is 74 IQ- according to Becker:

    http://viewoniq.org/?p=124

    , @International Jew
    @Simon in London

    OT but can you explain why Nigel Farage can do so well in the elections to the European Parliament, while failing so miserably in elections to the British Parliament?

    , @Dieter Kief
    @Simon in London

    If only your IQ assumptions were correct - and one last if, if you please: If only IQ would make people work. Most of those Syrians don't work in Germany. And not only (by a far stretch) because they lack IQ - they lack qualifications, they lack their family ties, they lack the mentality, which makes people work in a cold climate. Many of them lack the bodily strength too, which is required - especially for low-qualification jobs. And none of them speaks Geman - none of all of those below IQ 85, at least (and my guess would be: That could quite easily be the majority of them).

    The whole Merkel-affair is a complete mess of blue-eyedness on the side of almost all in the actual German government. A pretty wild mess, which will outlast me, that's for sure.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Jack D, @Anonymous

  66. Ramadan, who serves as a volunteer firefighter in Hanover when he’s not brushing up on one of his five languages or teaching himself math or physics online, acknowledges that he’s unusual among refugees.

    He could be the star of a new blockbuster political thriller, The Hunt for the Brown Unicorn.

  67. I cannot tell you how much I am annoyed by the way headlines are written these days. Something just seems off about them, and I can’t quite put my finger on it. This headline has two complete sentences in it, when it could have just read “Germany’s Migrants are Starting to Help its Economy”. The way it’s actually written come across as overly wordy and more than a bit smug. Headlines are supposed to be succinct and to the point. And often times, the second sentence is some kind of overly declarative statement such as “This is a Problem” or something to that effect. Is this just how they teach journalism in school these days, or are they just getting stupider, or both?

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    That is the clickbaity-est style of headline now, which the Free Market has proved the most superior form of newsplaining. And logically an online piece of text as opposed to printed doesn't have to be succinct/space-saving... Well, it doesn't HAVE to be

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Hapalong Cassidy


    This headline has two complete sentences in it...
     
    They're trying out subtitles for the books they hope to write.
    , @Mike1
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    The point of it is that you can share it on social media without having read the article to appear smart/caring/involved. Other people can then not read it either and click "Like".

    It is also a way to "win" arguments on social media: i.e. "No immigrants do not use welfare more than native born. In fact, they boost the economy".

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    The headlines are just the start of the annoyance. Articles from the NYT and WaPo are written like legal briefs which use weird, contorted language to avoid inconvienent facts while trying to imply that the opposite is actually true.

    At some level it's an interesting exercise in critical reading to pick out all the circumlocutions and evasions and figure out what they are hiding. But it's also exhausting when you'd rather just get the facts.

    Replies: @Jack D

  68. @Kent Nationalist
    @Anonymous

    Absolutely absurd claim.

    Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager

    You can’t say that for French, for instance, or even English – too many idiosyncrasies, nuances, colloquilliasms et .

    I’ll take all of that over the myriad of “cases” in German, danke schön .

  69. Hey, what’s the big deal with taking in all those Muslim refugees? It’s just an irreversible experiment based upon some silly, modern day ideology with catastrophic consequences for the country if it happens to go wrong. And what could ever go wrong with importing vast numbers of Muslims from backwards, oppressive, undemocratic war-torn countries?

    • Agree: GermanReader2
    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Wilkey

    This may be like deja vu all over again, as I recall comments here about experiments and the concept of a "control". We just need one decent-sized control country for this experiment, and I'm guessing that's where a lot of us would head to after the experimental results have been tabulated by the new Moslem Ministry for the Infidels.

  70. @Anonymous
    @theo the kraut

    Don't worry. Soon the Washington Post will move the goalposts and tell everyone that it's the next generation of Arabs, er Germans that are going to save the German economy.

    What's that? Germany has decades worth of education data saying that the offspring of these refugees(and I use that term loosely) will never, on average, get anywhere close to the academic achievement of your average ethnic German pupil, even when they're born in Germany?

    Then it must be the fault of Germany's notoriously low-quality, immigrant-unfriendly education system that these German-born Muslims are failing to achieve academic parity!

    Wait, so you're saying that the most recent round of PISA testing indicates that German-born Poles have the exact same levels of academic proficiency as their ethnic German classmates?

    And on and on...

    See, when you have a narrative to push, you can just make up anything and hope it will stick, because even though WaPo and NYT readers pride themselves on being the smartest in the nation, they're actually the intellectually lazy people in the English-speaking world.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @CAL2

    Don’t worry. Soon the Washington Post will move the goalposts and tell everyone that it’s the next generation of Arabs, er Germans that are going to save the German economy.

    Which raises an important question: most of the refugees we saw arriving 4 years ago were men – like 80% or more of them. Presumably a lot of them applied to have their spouses, fiances, child-brides, parents, children allowed in to join them. To what degree has that actually happened?

    For a lot of these refugees there can only be a second generation if the women who didn’t come with them are allowed to join them. Has that been allowed to happen? If not, I suspect many of them (though not enough) will be returning home.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Wilkey


    If not, I suspect many of them (though not enough) will be returning home.
     
    If the Germans couldn't bring themselves(for the sake of their continued existence no less) to fight back a wave of young male invaders from their borders, what makes you think they could ever reject women and children?

    Even if they did say that they were stopping chain migration, all the invaders would need to to is coordinate nationwide using their taxpayer-subsidized smartphones and start a Germany-wide riot within an hour.

    Within a week German cities would be desolated in a way not seen since 1945.

    You think the Bundeswehr is going to do something about it?
  71. You’d think that the Germans would invite all the oppressed Black Lives Matter people in as refugees from a harsh environment. I guess they had enough of African-American shenanigans from GIs stationed at American military bases.

  72. Anonymous[206] • Disclaimer says:

    Ramadan, who serves as a volunteer firefighter in Hanover when he’s not brushing up on one of his five languages or teaching himself math or physics online

    Guy should run for mayor of South Bend, Ind. He’s got all the qualifications

    • Replies: @Neuday
    @Anonymous

    That's the direction our country is going. Ramadan Buttplug 2028.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  73. Anonymous[206] • Disclaimer says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    I cannot tell you how much I am annoyed by the way headlines are written these days. Something just seems off about them, and I can’t quite put my finger on it. This headline has two complete sentences in it, when it could have just read “Germany’s Migrants are Starting to Help its Economy”. The way it’s actually written come across as overly wordy and more than a bit smug. Headlines are supposed to be succinct and to the point. And often times, the second sentence is some kind of overly declarative statement such as “This is a Problem” or something to that effect. Is this just how they teach journalism in school these days, or are they just getting stupider, or both?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Mike1, @Hypnotoad666

    That is the clickbaity-est style of headline now, which the Free Market has proved the most superior form of newsplaining. And logically an online piece of text as opposed to printed doesn’t have to be succinct/space-saving… Well, it doesn’t HAVE to be

  74. @Anonymous

    Population of EU member Poland = 38 million. EU members Romania/Bulgaria = 27 million. Population of nearby non-EU member Ukraine 45 million.
     
    Most immigrants in Germany are from EU countries or non-EU European countries.

    This is also the case in countries like Sweden.

    https://twitter.com/turbovlach/status/1125476696285687809

    Replies: @Lurker, @Achmed E. Newman, @Buzz Mohawk, @ben tillman

    I wonder how cities like Malmo became Moslem cities, then, #375. Where’d they get all the Moslems, Al-fucking-Bania?

    • Replies: @Fredrik
    @Achmed E. Newman

    A large segment of the Malmö muslims are from the former Yugoslavia. Bosnia, Kosovo etc are common backgrounds. Other muslims are Iranians.

    It hasn't been all that common with the honour cousins from Arabia or other really backward places but that's of course rapidly changing.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  75. @Lagertha
    Total bullshit. Merkel is a childless woman who is full of hatred for the Europe that ruined her life as a young girl with dreams. She is a POS. The irony is, not even a virile Muslim man would want to tie his ship to that old vessel. She banked on Hillary and both got nuthin because the world does not like Communism or old women...or old men. They should all hurry up and die as the world is getting more evil and angry thanks to them!!!!

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Buffalo Joe

    AGREED, Lagertha. Merkel was from old establisment-Commie stock and got degrees in Physical Chemistry. She can’t be stupid, so that’d make her evil then. She’s got a lot of blood on her hands. As for her suitability as “life partner”, I wouldn’t go near her with Emmanuel Macron’s 10 ft. pole.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Merkel was from old establisment-Commie stock and got degrees in Physical Chemistry. She can’t be stupid, so that’d make her evil then. She’s got a lot of blood on her hands.
     
    I imagine that Merkel is one of the many "clever sillies" who populate the ruling classes on both sides of the Atlantic.

    http://medicalhypotheses.blogspot.com/2009/11/clever-sillies-why-high-iq-lack-common.html

    In sum, you need to think of high intelligence not as merely an increase in certain capabilities, but rather as a trait of personality. They're inordinately attracted to novelty, paradox, etc. and have been trained from their early school days to believe that every problem is soluble if enough smart people with the correct credentials think about it for a long enough period of time. The granular nature of human nature and interaction confounds them at the abstract level, so they ignore those aspects of humans which doom their plans schemes to failure. This is why clever sillies adopt a blank slate formulation of human nature, and double down with religious fervor when it is proved time and again not to be the case.

    Replies: @Kylie, @megabar

    , @PiltdownMan
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Angela Merkel's husband of twenty years, Joachim Sauer, is a quantum chemist, like she used to be.

    He's had a long and distinguished career. Angela Merkel worked as a scientist for only a few years and for that length of time, has a respectable publication record (see below.)

    https://www.scopus.com/authid/detail.uri?authorId=24432527000

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @Dtbb
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Reminds me of this.
    https://youtu.be/sP_l5aPww-4

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  76. Because nobody else in the world would want to move to Germany.

    I had a friend who really wanted to move there for the rest of his life. He was born in Germany, but at an Army or Air Force base. He even got some supposedly big-time German politician involved to help him, went to Germany to meet the guy, and they still wouldn’t let him immigrate. He is not around anymore to see WTH is going on now with the “refugees”, just as well on that part …

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Achmed E. Newman

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b0174h5t

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

  77. @eah
    Typische Lügenpresse -- but if you read it closely you can get the true picture: ...a significant majority of the approximately 1.5 million people who have arrived since remain out of the labor force... -- so the focus on the few who may be in some kind of training seems misplaced: they are a tiny minority -- the rest do nothing but exist at the expense of German taxpayers: housing, food, medical care, literally everything, including 'integration' efforts, also paid for by taxpayers -- there is another huge, separate bureaucracy responsible for coordinating that, as well as literally hundreds of companies that have sprung up to get in on this modern alchemy scam, taking taxpayer money for a promise to try to turn ignorant, often illiterate muslims and Africans into German workers -- And he is getting paid to do it by a company dangling the promise of a job... -- companies don't pay out of their own pockets -- German taxpayers subsidize this via the 'integration' bureaucracy mentioned above -- this is necessary because it's well known that a big majority either break off the training or otherwise do not finish successfully, so companies will not take that financial hit/risk.

    Monatlich 5250 Euro pro minderjährigem unbegleitetem Flüchtling -- the average MUFL (minderjähriger unbegleiteter Flüchtling) costs > 5k euros/month.

    „Seit Jahren steigt die Zahl der sozialversicherungspflichtig Beschäftigten, die nicht genug verdienen, um im Alter auf eine Rente oberhalb der Grundsicherung zu kommen“, sagte AfD-Sozialexperte René Springer dem RND.

    The number of workers paying into the pension system but earning so little that their pension will be less than they would get on welfare has been growing for years -- all of these Flüchtlinge, who will at best be Geringverdiener (low earners), will make that problem worse.

    From Bild recently: 11m elderly Germans face poverty (Altersarmut) because their pension is going to be too small -- Mohammed is the most common name given to babies born in Berlin -- note the foto.

    https://i.postimg.cc/dVqDVcxG/bild-mini-rente-mohammed.png
    https://i.postimg.cc/T2DzNkcb/bild-mohammed-l-genpresse.png

    Replies: @eah

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @eah

    In the long run, Merkel will have done more damage to Germany than the 8th Air Force.

    , @eah
    @eah

    So lebe ich mit drei Frauen und 13 Kindern --„Ich würde mich freuen, wenn ich Deutscher werden könnte“

    Syrian Abboud Sweid has 3 wives and 13 (soon 14) kids -- he wants German citizenship -- what sane country would not grant his request? -- the Bild article is behind the 'Bild+' paywall -- "LOL"

    https://bilder.bild.de/fotos/abboud-will-deutscher-werden-so-lebe-ich-mit-drei-frauen-und-13-kindern-201124962-61748970/Bild/4,club=bildplus.bild.jpg

  78. @Simon in London
    Christian Syrians from the coastal & Lebanon-adjacent mountains seem fairly bright, but I'd guess most of the 'refugees' are Sunni from the inner deserts. Probably looking at median IQs around 90 or a bit lower, given Turkish median IQ is around 90. So not a lot of highly skilled workers, though not the worst. Non-Syrian fake refugees will likely average lower.

    Replies: @GermanReader2, @Anonymous, @International Jew, @Dieter Kief

    The average iq in Syria is around 82.

  79. @Anonymous

    Population of EU member Poland = 38 million. EU members Romania/Bulgaria = 27 million. Population of nearby non-EU member Ukraine 45 million.
     
    Most immigrants in Germany are from EU countries or non-EU European countries.

    This is also the case in countries like Sweden.

    https://twitter.com/turbovlach/status/1125476696285687809

    Replies: @Lurker, @Achmed E. Newman, @Buzz Mohawk, @ben tillman

    And? What does that have to do with anything, smart commenter #375?

    Ninety percent of what we put in our kitchen trash is stuff that doesn’t stink after a day. It’s the rest that forces us to take it outside and dump it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Buzz Mohawk

    You don't think it's relevant that most of the trash is from other European countries? Most discussion of this topic, especially in the US, doesn't break down stats of immigration to European countries by nationality, and tries to imply that the aggregate represents Islamic immigration. This seems to be deliberate, done for neocon reasons and to distract from America's demographics.

    It's also relevant in that European countries already try to attract eastern European labor.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

  80. @Digital Samizdat
    @The Alarmist

    France had lots of colonies in the 3rd world once, so there are probably more people worldwide who speak French than German.

    Replies: @The Alarmist

    The Germans had a few colonies; in fact, Barak Hussein Obama’s home village is a mere hop, skip, and a jump away from what used to be German East Africa.

  81. @Desiderius
    OT:

    (Stoller is a lefty, and a good one)

    https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1125566192993939458

    Replies: @ic1000, @Kevin O'Keeffe

    Thanks for the links to Matt Stoller and Sen. Hawley, Desiderius. My reply is in the next (‘Warren Buffett’) iSteve thread, where this subject isn’t off-topic at all.

  82. @Digital Samizdat
    @Reg Cæsar

    But ... but … corporate profits! Maximizing shareholder-value! What are you? Some kinda communiss?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Ahh, BS. I get your sarcasm, D.S., but it’s kind of misplaced. Yes, they aren’t that far from Communists, these Crony-Capitalist corporate honchos. If they didn’t have the Socialist welfare state to pawn off all of the externalities on, they would NOT be able to import workers to do roofing at $10 / hr.

    Corporate profits can do just fine in a real capitalist economy (a free market) even at decent labor rates. Right now, Big-Biz goes for as low pay as possible as they have the welfare state (meaning native American taxpayers) to keep these people coming across the border, along with both squads (colors) of The Party too, of course.

    Anyway, to Reg Caesar, a BIG AGREE here!

  83. @Anonymous

    Ramadan, who serves as a volunteer firefighter in Hanover when he’s not brushing up on one of his five languages or teaching himself math or physics online
     
    Guy should run for mayor of South Bend, Ind. He's got all the qualifications

    Replies: @Neuday

    That’s the direction our country is going. Ramadan Buttplug 2028.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Neuday


    Ramadan Buttplug 2028.
     
    Well, it's not quite the Herbert Hoover slogan of 1928, "A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage" or Al Smith's "Make your wet dreams come true." for Prohibition-repeal, but I guess it would do for 2028. Idiocracy was not just a movie, people!
  84. Anonymous [AKA "bspora"] says:
    @Simon in London
    Christian Syrians from the coastal & Lebanon-adjacent mountains seem fairly bright, but I'd guess most of the 'refugees' are Sunni from the inner deserts. Probably looking at median IQs around 90 or a bit lower, given Turkish median IQ is around 90. So not a lot of highly skilled workers, though not the worst. Non-Syrian fake refugees will likely average lower.

    Replies: @GermanReader2, @Anonymous, @International Jew, @Dieter Kief

    It would be nice… Unfortunately the real number is 74 IQ- according to Becker:

    http://viewoniq.org/?p=124

  85. @216
    @Reg Cæsar

    https://geoawesomeness.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Average-wage-rates-in-Europe.jpg

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Liechtenstein is king? Turkey tops Hungary?

    • Replies: @216
    @Reg Cæsar

    The Turkish currency has devalued since the map was made.

  86. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    Poland and Romania have labor shortages too.
     
    There are no labor shortages anywhere. There are only labor shortages at a given price. Econ 101, remember?

    Raise the price until either the shortage or the demand dissipates.

    Replies: @Anon, @International Jew, @216, @Digital Samizdat, @Louis Renault, @Jack D, @obwandiyag

    The current price for labor is German civilization. Can’t get much higher than that.

    • Agree: Old Prude
    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Louis Renault


    The current price for labor is German civilization. Can’t get much higher than that.
     
    Well said. Very well said.
  87. @Hapalong Cassidy
    I cannot tell you how much I am annoyed by the way headlines are written these days. Something just seems off about them, and I can’t quite put my finger on it. This headline has two complete sentences in it, when it could have just read “Germany’s Migrants are Starting to Help its Economy”. The way it’s actually written come across as overly wordy and more than a bit smug. Headlines are supposed to be succinct and to the point. And often times, the second sentence is some kind of overly declarative statement such as “This is a Problem” or something to that effect. Is this just how they teach journalism in school these days, or are they just getting stupider, or both?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Mike1, @Hypnotoad666

    This headline has two complete sentences in it…

    They’re trying out subtitles for the books they hope to write.

  88. @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    Actually, German is one of the easier European languages to learn.
    For a novice it might start off difficult, but it gets easier.

    You can't say that for French, for instance, or even English - too many idiosyncrasies, nuances, colloquilliasms et .

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Kent Nationalist, @Buzz Mohawk, @PiltdownMan, @ben tillman

    First of all, you are wrong. Second, try Hungarian.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I remember my High School days, many many moons ago.

    We were forced to learn two foreign languages to examination level, French, which was compulsory or a choice of German or Spanish.

    Though tough to begin with, I picked up German better than I did French, the vagaries of French spelling, accents (on letters), etc I found tricky. Once you got over the cases - a novel concept to English speakers - German had a sort of methodical logic behind it.

    My language teacher, who taught both languages was the first to make the point to me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Desiderius

  89. @Digital Samizdat
    @Reg Cæsar


    MiHiGru sounds deadlier than Ebola. Are there vaccines?
     
    MiHiGru = Migrationshintergrund (immigrant background)

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    MiHiGru sounds deadlier than Ebola.

    MiHiGru = Migrationshintergrund (immigrant background)

    So, that’s a “yes”, then, deadlier than Ebola.

  90. @Neuday
    @Anonymous

    That's the direction our country is going. Ramadan Buttplug 2028.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Ramadan Buttplug 2028.

    Well, it’s not quite the Herbert Hoover slogan of 1928, “A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage” or Al Smith’s “Make your wet dreams come true.” for Prohibition-repeal, but I guess it would do for 2028. Idiocracy was not just a movie, people!

  91. Charles the hammer stopped the Muslim invasion of Europe at the battle of Tours. Merkel the nail surrendered without a fight, and even paid the muslims to invade, rape, and pillage.

  92. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Lagertha

    AGREED, Lagertha. Merkel was from old establisment-Commie stock and got degrees in Physical Chemistry. She can't be stupid, so that'd make her evil then. She's got a lot of blood on her hands. As for her suitability as "life partner", I wouldn't go near her with Emmanuel Macron's 10 ft. pole.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @PiltdownMan, @Dtbb

    Merkel was from old establisment-Commie stock and got degrees in Physical Chemistry. She can’t be stupid, so that’d make her evil then. She’s got a lot of blood on her hands.

    I imagine that Merkel is one of the many “clever sillies” who populate the ruling classes on both sides of the Atlantic.

    http://medicalhypotheses.blogspot.com/2009/11/clever-sillies-why-high-iq-lack-common.html

    In sum, you need to think of high intelligence not as merely an increase in certain capabilities, but rather as a trait of personality. They’re inordinately attracted to novelty, paradox, etc. and have been trained from their early school days to believe that every problem is soluble if enough smart people with the correct credentials think about it for a long enough period of time. The granular nature of human nature and interaction confounds them at the abstract level, so they ignore those aspects of humans which doom their plans schemes to failure. This is why clever sillies adopt a blank slate formulation of human nature, and double down with religious fervor when it is proved time and again not to be the case.

    • Replies: @Kylie
    @Alec Leamas

    So well said, thanks.

    , @megabar
    @Alec Leamas

    > This is why clever sillies adopt a blank slate formulation of human nature

    It's also basic human nature to assume that other people think as you do. I mean, sure, objectively we all know that there are differences. But we don't fully internalize that and take it to its conclusions.

    And so if you're smart, you don't understand that other people can't quickly learn useful skills. If you're wise, you can't understand that some people have a very hard time making good life decisions.

  93. Mike1 says:
    @Hapalong Cassidy
    I cannot tell you how much I am annoyed by the way headlines are written these days. Something just seems off about them, and I can’t quite put my finger on it. This headline has two complete sentences in it, when it could have just read “Germany’s Migrants are Starting to Help its Economy”. The way it’s actually written come across as overly wordy and more than a bit smug. Headlines are supposed to be succinct and to the point. And often times, the second sentence is some kind of overly declarative statement such as “This is a Problem” or something to that effect. Is this just how they teach journalism in school these days, or are they just getting stupider, or both?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Mike1, @Hypnotoad666

    The point of it is that you can share it on social media without having read the article to appear smart/caring/involved. Other people can then not read it either and click “Like”.

    It is also a way to “win” arguments on social media: i.e. “No immigrants do not use welfare more than native born. In fact, they boost the economy”.

  94. @GermanReader2
    @Redneck farmer

    Imo, most low iq people have high time preference.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @res

    True.

  95. @International Jew
    I wonder how Syrian electricians stack up against Indian ones. Just asking...
    https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/assets.barcroft.tv/57d2ee0c-6e2f-4f21-bd34-f54a4dfa008f.jpg
    http://www.barcroft.tv/tangled-electricity-cables-old-delhi-india

    Replies: @Anon, @Old Prude, @Mr. Anon

  96. @Louis Renault
    @Reg Cæsar

    The current price for labor is German civilization. Can't get much higher than that.

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    The current price for labor is German civilization. Can’t get much higher than that.

    Well said. Very well said.

  97. @eah
    @eah

    https://twitter.com/Netzdenunziant/status/1116450102749605894

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @eah

    In the long run, Merkel will have done more damage to Germany than the 8th Air Force.

  98. Rusty says:

    All this emphasis on “growth!”. “We must have growth!!” “We must maintain growth!!”

    What would happen if a country just stayed stable, productive and harmonious?

    Would that be so terrible?

    Seems to me that if you look at the debt clocks of these “growth” obsessed countries, the growth is all fake anyway.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Rusty


    What would happen if a country just stayed stable, productive and harmonious?
     
    That should be the goal.

    If I had an AGREE button left, I would click on it now for your whole comment.
    , @Old Prude
    @Rusty

    This nails it. The more sardines the in can the better! Work for any corporation: The goal is Growth. There is no voice in the public sphere saying "Enough". That used to be the role of the environmentalists, but they've been cowed by cash and P.C.

    , @Joe Schmoe
    @Rusty

    Indeed.

    Growth is not a metric of, by and for the people.

    Growth is the metric for our greedy barons.

    Sure, people want stuff like new technologies that actually make life better, but just endless growth, uh, no; bigger more crowded cities, no.

    We need a better metric than growth for the health of the economy.

  99. @Reg Cæsar
    @216

    Liechtenstein is king? Turkey tops Hungary?

    Replies: @216

    The Turkish currency has devalued since the map was made.

  100. @MikeatMikedotMike
    @216

    Don't go using the word "repatriation" in this neck of the woods. Fastest way to get your future comments moderated for 24 - 72 hours.

    Replies: @216

    Gotcha,

    Is “reparations” ok?

  101. The only Germans who truly welcome these Muslim migrants are white German women who are attracted to dark hairy angry Muslim men who beat them up before, during and after sex. The gay white boys are into these macho dark hairy butch type too. Ethnic German men have become too cuck and passive for them.

    Jim Rogers said in his book Adventure Capitalist that when he was traveling through Africa, he saw many middle age overweight European women, mostly Scandinavian and German, with skinny young African “boyfriends”. The women of course bought all the meals.

    As for training Muslims to be their replacement workforce, there goes that German precision and top notch engineering.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Truther

    Hey, Whiskey.

  102. Those dealing with integrating uneducated or low-educated Muslims from the Middle East into a Western, high-tech society always seem to focus on learning languages … take German language classes and all of their problems are solved, as it were.

    Learning German is the least of their problems. The Muslins generally speak and write Arabic. They use Arabic script and read right-to-left. For them, to integrate is like going the distance from kindergarten through graduating from eighth grade. They must relearn the German language, German grammar, Roman script, and learn to read left-to-right to a high standard.

    The differences in script and reading are daunting tasks that are much more difficult than learning enough German to order a bratwurst in a restaurant. To work as an electrician, a Middle Easterner would have to have a sufficient facility in the German language, Roman script, and have completed the transition from reading right-to-left to reading left-to-right in order to absorb training material, take tests, and find their way through the standards in the electrical code.

    I’ll check back in 2030 to see how they’re doing.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @TheJester

    Education in Arab countries is shitty in general, especially among the lower and rural classes who end up as refugees. But better educated people in the Arab world would learn Roman script from an early age and at least one Western language - in Syria this would probably be French. And Ataturk switched Turkey to the Roman alphabet. In any case, the hard part about learning another (alphabetic) language is vocabulary and grammar and pronunciation. Learning a new alphabet and switching directions is the easiest part, especially since Roman writing is simpler than Arabic. Going in the other direction is harder because Arabic is always written in cursive and the letters vary in shape depending on their position within a word (generally speaking each letter has 4 different forms depending on whether it is at the beginning, middle or end of the word or isolated by itself).

    The hardest, hardest part is being smart enough - the real problem is that the Muslims who are coming over are mostly a low IQ bunch. When you are below 90 IQ, ALL of it is hard.

  103. @Wilkey
    Hey, what's the big deal with taking in all those Muslim refugees? It's just an irreversible experiment based upon some silly, modern day ideology with catastrophic consequences for the country if it happens to go wrong. And what could ever go wrong with importing vast numbers of Muslims from backwards, oppressive, undemocratic war-torn countries?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    This may be like deja vu all over again, as I recall comments here about experiments and the concept of a “control”. We just need one decent-sized control country for this experiment, and I’m guessing that’s where a lot of us would head to after the experimental results have been tabulated by the new Moslem Ministry for the Infidels.

  104. @Anonymous
    @theo the kraut

    Don't worry. Soon the Washington Post will move the goalposts and tell everyone that it's the next generation of Arabs, er Germans that are going to save the German economy.

    What's that? Germany has decades worth of education data saying that the offspring of these refugees(and I use that term loosely) will never, on average, get anywhere close to the academic achievement of your average ethnic German pupil, even when they're born in Germany?

    Then it must be the fault of Germany's notoriously low-quality, immigrant-unfriendly education system that these German-born Muslims are failing to achieve academic parity!

    Wait, so you're saying that the most recent round of PISA testing indicates that German-born Poles have the exact same levels of academic proficiency as their ethnic German classmates?

    And on and on...

    See, when you have a narrative to push, you can just make up anything and hope it will stick, because even though WaPo and NYT readers pride themselves on being the smartest in the nation, they're actually the intellectually lazy people in the English-speaking world.

    Replies: @Wilkey, @CAL2

    I met some retired German teachers. Let’s just say they were not complimentary of their Muslim students.

  105. istevefan says:

    Three thoughts on this post:

    1) Again they treat 2015 as some sort of year zero of alien immigration into Europe. There has been tons of alien immigrants into Europe in the past 3 decades, and it continues unabated. Focusing on 2015, as if it is now over, seems to be done to make people believe it really is over, when it is not.

    2) Some have mentioned the Turk guest workers. What I don’t understand is why do guest workers even get a consideration to stay when they came under the conditions that they were guest workers in the first place? Apologists say they helped build Germany or country X, and thus deserve to stay. Big deal, the guys who remodeled your kitchen with stunning granite do not get to hang around and live in your house. After they are paid, you hopefully never see them again.

    3) If they are tracking people after 4 years, and find the majority are not even in job training, and of those that are most are still not prepared to enter the workforce, then what is the point in bringing in immigrants? A German couple could have a kid, and he would be ready to enter the workforce at age 18, if not sooner. Immigrants were supposed to provided ready-trained labor. But if it takes that long to get them up to speed, open border types can’t even make that argument. All roads point to encouraging/helping the natives have kids. There is no replacement for their own kids.

    • Agree: GermanReader2
    • Replies: @216
    @istevefan


    2) Some have mentioned the Turk guest workers. What I don’t understand is why do guest workers even get a consideration to stay when they came under the conditions that they were guest workers in the first place? Apologists say they helped build Germany or country X, and thus deserve to stay. Big deal, the guys who remodeled your kitchen with stunning granite do not get to hang around and live in your house. After they are paid, you hopefully never see them again.
     
    It's Marxism. Read up on what they term as "exploitation" and its easy to map it over onto Cultural Marxism.


    https://oyc.yale.edu/sociology/socy-151/lecture-13
  106. Anon[388] • Disclaimer says:

    They’re also helping the economy of Portland, Maine, which is taking in Sub-Saharan Africans coming over the southern border.

    https://www.pressherald.com/2019/05/06/more-asylum-seekers-arrive-in-portland-from-southern-border-as-city-debates-assistance/

    More asylum seekers arrive in Portland from southern border as city debates assistance

    Portland’s human resources director criticizes comments by Mayor Ethan Strimling welcoming the arrival of more immigrants.

    …Last year, Portland officials warned that its family shelter was reaching a crisis level, in part because of an influx of families from African countries such as Angola and the Democratic Republic of Congo who have applied for asylum and are prohibited from working. The city shelter can hold about 146 people. Another 35 floor mats can be set up at the shelter and an additional 80 floor mats can be set up at the Salvation Army gym to accommodate overflow.

    The Maine Sunday Telegram reported on the increasing numbers of sub-Saharan African families making the long and dangerous journey through Central America to the southern border. At the time, Long told the paper that many families staying at the Texas shelter were asking to come to Portland because of the support the city provides and because of the immigrant community that has taken root here…

    …While critics often point to the cost of immigration and the burden on social services when people arrive without incomes or resources, a report commissioned by Portland’s Office of Economic Opportunity and the Portland Regional Chamber of Commerce came to a different conclusion about the long-term impacts.

    That report said immigrants contributed $1.2 billion to the Greater Portland metro region’s gross domestic product, paid $133 million in federal taxes and $62 million in state taxes; contributed $57.3 million to Social Security and $14.7 million to Medicare; and helped create or preserve over 1,100 local manufacturing jobs…

    Comments are disabled on some stories about sensitive topics.

    • Replies: @Old Prude
    @Anon

    Yes, they have helped preserve the manufacturing jobs: Low skilled, low pay manufacturing jobs. Because if those companies had to pay decent middle class American wages, they would go out of business. I know. I work for one of them. Here's another local Portland employer who does the same: The job entails stuffing cheese into frozen chickens: Work Americans won't do for crap wages, but foreigners will do the work, when subsidized with a considerable welfare stipend.

    It would be better for the local community to have the businesses go-under so their workers are available to more viable enterprises who are starved for good workers. Instead, we get waves of fecund Somalis, Congolese and Iraqis squatting in the cities and schools to provide cheap manpower for businesses with a scarcely viable commercial position.

    What is particularly galling is how these crummy exploitive enterprises get media props for helping these "New Americans", as they like to call them.

    , @Anonymous
    @Anon

    How cute. Isn't that the Duchess of Sussex and her new kid?

  107. @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    Actually, German is one of the easier European languages to learn.
    For a novice it might start off difficult, but it gets easier.

    You can't say that for French, for instance, or even English - too many idiosyncrasies, nuances, colloquilliasms et .

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Kent Nationalist, @Buzz Mohawk, @PiltdownMan, @ben tillman

    You can’t say that for French, for instance, or even English – too many idiosyncrasies, nuances, colloquilliasms et .

    Henry Higgins had a few observations on the matter of learning to speak various languages.

  108. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Lagertha

    AGREED, Lagertha. Merkel was from old establisment-Commie stock and got degrees in Physical Chemistry. She can't be stupid, so that'd make her evil then. She's got a lot of blood on her hands. As for her suitability as "life partner", I wouldn't go near her with Emmanuel Macron's 10 ft. pole.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @PiltdownMan, @Dtbb

    Angela Merkel’s husband of twenty years, Joachim Sauer, is a quantum chemist, like she used to be.

    He’s had a long and distinguished career. Angela Merkel worked as a scientist for only a few years and for that length of time, has a respectable publication record (see below.)

    https://www.scopus.com/authid/detail.uri?authorId=24432527000

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @PiltdownMan

    No doubt Herr and Frau Merkel are at two different places at the same time.

  109. Lumber is in short supply in the Middle East and the preferred construction material seems to be masonry, which in modern construction is usually poured concrete. Because the climate is dry and lacking in freeze-thaw cycles, concrete, even if crudely made, holds up very well in the absence of artillery attack. There is also less need for insulation – wood construction with its hollow walls lends itself to being stuffed with insulation but there is no easy way to insulate a masonry wall. Hollow walls with easily drilled wooden members are also great for running pipes and wiring in a way that they will be concealed.

    The North American style of building wooden stick framed houses is really found in only a few other countries. Its genesis was the need to build quickly using semi-skilled labor (traditional timber framing with its elaborate joinery required skilled labor and expensive materials but anyone can nail a 2×4 to another 2×4) and that has never really changed.

    • Replies: @jim jones
    @Jack D

    I have noticed that whenever there is a tornado in the USA all the houses seem to fall down

    , @Simply Simon
    @Jack D

    Anyone can nail a 2x4 to another 2x4 but as an example not everyone can compute the exact length and pitch needed for valley rafters.

  110. @Anon
    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1125312761058119680

    I wonder if this is still true, since Japanese have gotten a lot taller since I immigrated there. At 5-10 I used to be the tallest person on almost any commuter train, but no more. And there are a lot of tall women, in flat shoes (the first thing I always look at when confronted with one of these statuesque Amazons). There are a good number of tall Japanese up through the mid-40s, and a smattering of ramrod straight tall Japanese male seniors.

    (Japanese dental care has also massively improved.)

    Whenever I read any sort of trans-national comparison, the first thing I think is not, Is that true?, but How do they know it's true? Where do you get a representative sample of data?

    From Wikipedia I see that the only data they can find for Japan is government data from measuring all high school seniors at age 17. Age 17 is not a bad age to do it, but you get most people before they go off to college or jobs, minus drop-outs, and a small number of private school kids.

    Korean data comes from Size Korea, a nonprofit that supplies industry with anthropometric data. They exhaustively measure a sample (n=15,000) group. The last time they did this was in 2000.

    These two data sets show that Japanese and Koreans are the same height as of the early 2010s, 5-7 for men. However, there is a second data set only for the capital city of Seoul for 2017 that has men at 5-8.5. This appears to be from KOSIS another industrial statistics vendor.

    There are probably Japanese data vendors for industy, but Wikipedia hasn't included them.

    At any rate, we have what seems like a truly exhaustive data set from Japan (but from a demographically narrow slice, 17 year olds), compared to two sampled sets from Korea. The nationwide one shows no difference with the nationwide Japanese one. I think you would have to really dig down into each set's methodology and other factors to be confident the two numbers are comparable.

    So I think the jury is out on the "Koreans are taller" trope.

    And then there is the sudden and disturbing shift in the Japanese diet exemplified by Ikinari Steak:

    https://ikinaristeakusa.com

    In its orignal Japanese manifestation, this was a fast casual restaurant with no tables, just long standing-only, tall feeding-trough-style counters, where you specified your quality and cut and kilograms of beef, and the cutter hacked off the amount you ordered, cooked it (barely) and gave it to you to scarf while standing up. And these shops were full of young women.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @Lurker, @Sleep

    I expect the natural maximum height for Koreans would be just a smidgen taller, since the Japanese are known to have a significant amount of aboriginal Jomon ancestry …. perhaps about 30%. But the difference is likely small enough that environmental factors could keep the ratio wobbling back and forth.

  111. The new Germans will lose interest in vocational fields even faster than the old Germans unless you do the one thing that would have kept the old Germans interested anyway, which is to pay them a boat load of money. Maybe the elites got mixed up somewhere. It is a boat load of money not a boat load of brown people.

  112. @Jack D
    Lumber is in short supply in the Middle East and the preferred construction material seems to be masonry, which in modern construction is usually poured concrete. Because the climate is dry and lacking in freeze-thaw cycles, concrete, even if crudely made, holds up very well in the absence of artillery attack. There is also less need for insulation - wood construction with its hollow walls lends itself to being stuffed with insulation but there is no easy way to insulate a masonry wall. Hollow walls with easily drilled wooden members are also great for running pipes and wiring in a way that they will be concealed.

    The North American style of building wooden stick framed houses is really found in only a few other countries. Its genesis was the need to build quickly using semi-skilled labor (traditional timber framing with its elaborate joinery required skilled labor and expensive materials but anyone can nail a 2x4 to another 2x4) and that has never really changed.

    Replies: @jim jones, @Simply Simon

    I have noticed that whenever there is a tornado in the USA all the houses seem to fall down

  113. I still can’t understand how Europe willing got into this mess. Maybe it’s because All the smart leaders died and that left cat ladies in charge.

  114. @TheJester
    Those dealing with integrating uneducated or low-educated Muslims from the Middle East into a Western, high-tech society always seem to focus on learning languages ... take German language classes and all of their problems are solved, as it were.

    Learning German is the least of their problems. The Muslins generally speak and write Arabic. They use Arabic script and read right-to-left. For them, to integrate is like going the distance from kindergarten through graduating from eighth grade. They must relearn the German language, German grammar, Roman script, and learn to read left-to-right to a high standard.

    The differences in script and reading are daunting tasks that are much more difficult than learning enough German to order a bratwurst in a restaurant. To work as an electrician, a Middle Easterner would have to have a sufficient facility in the German language, Roman script, and have completed the transition from reading right-to-left to reading left-to-right in order to absorb training material, take tests, and find their way through the standards in the electrical code.

    I'll check back in 2030 to see how they're doing.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Education in Arab countries is shitty in general, especially among the lower and rural classes who end up as refugees. But better educated people in the Arab world would learn Roman script from an early age and at least one Western language – in Syria this would probably be French. And Ataturk switched Turkey to the Roman alphabet. In any case, the hard part about learning another (alphabetic) language is vocabulary and grammar and pronunciation. Learning a new alphabet and switching directions is the easiest part, especially since Roman writing is simpler than Arabic. Going in the other direction is harder because Arabic is always written in cursive and the letters vary in shape depending on their position within a word (generally speaking each letter has 4 different forms depending on whether it is at the beginning, middle or end of the word or isolated by itself).

    The hardest, hardest part is being smart enough – the real problem is that the Muslims who are coming over are mostly a low IQ bunch. When you are below 90 IQ, ALL of it is hard.

  115. Anonymous[233] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    @Anonymous

    First of all, you are wrong. Second, try Hungarian.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I remember my High School days, many many moons ago.

    We were forced to learn two foreign languages to examination level, French, which was compulsory or a choice of German or Spanish.

    Though tough to begin with, I picked up German better than I did French, the vagaries of French spelling, accents (on letters), etc I found tricky. Once you got over the cases – a novel concept to English speakers – German had a sort of methodical logic behind it.

    My language teacher, who taught both languages was the first to make the point to me.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    Native English speakers fail to appreciate how illogical and difficult to learn English spelling is.

    , @Desiderius
    @Anonymous

    German and English share a relatively recent parent.

    Replies: @Jack D

  116. @Change that Matters
    The government started allowing Turks in for jobs in 1961 on two-year contracts (to "help the economy"). Of the 3/4 million who came on this scheme, about half went back as expected. The 325,000 who remained have expanded in 60 years into the largest "ethnic minority" in Germany. The consensus is there are at least 4 million full or partial Turks in the country today (or 5% of the population).

    theo the kraut's statistics are accurate and show how positive the Turk has been for Germany's economy.

    So the question we must now ask is how many generations will it take this current invading force (or Ramadan the multilingual welders) to attain the same stellar immigrationsfolgen (immigration consequences)?

    And how many Ramadan's will there be by 2078 (60 years)?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Alice in Wonderland, @KenH

    And how many Ramadan’s will there be by 2078 (60 years)?

    God willing, zero.

    Germans have already demonstrated that they can and will remove foreigners if they decide to.

  117. Anonymous[233] • Disclaimer says:

    Of course EU law enshrines the ‘right’ of ‘family reunification’ of those with relatives in Germany.

    The salient point is that EU law is *absolutely* unalterable by any German parliament or indeed by any expression of the German people.

    Over the coming years, this fact will have the most profoundest possible consequences on the German nation.

  118. @Alec Leamas
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Merkel was from old establisment-Commie stock and got degrees in Physical Chemistry. She can’t be stupid, so that’d make her evil then. She’s got a lot of blood on her hands.
     
    I imagine that Merkel is one of the many "clever sillies" who populate the ruling classes on both sides of the Atlantic.

    http://medicalhypotheses.blogspot.com/2009/11/clever-sillies-why-high-iq-lack-common.html

    In sum, you need to think of high intelligence not as merely an increase in certain capabilities, but rather as a trait of personality. They're inordinately attracted to novelty, paradox, etc. and have been trained from their early school days to believe that every problem is soluble if enough smart people with the correct credentials think about it for a long enough period of time. The granular nature of human nature and interaction confounds them at the abstract level, so they ignore those aspects of humans which doom their plans schemes to failure. This is why clever sillies adopt a blank slate formulation of human nature, and double down with religious fervor when it is proved time and again not to be the case.

    Replies: @Kylie, @megabar

    So well said, thanks.

  119. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    Poland and Romania have labor shortages too.
     
    There are no labor shortages anywhere. There are only labor shortages at a given price. Econ 101, remember?

    Raise the price until either the shortage or the demand dissipates.

    Replies: @Anon, @International Jew, @216, @Digital Samizdat, @Louis Renault, @Jack D, @obwandiyag

    Right, Econ 101 – the simplified introductory course where what they teach you doesn’t match the real world. Let’s say tomorrow all the employers in America decided that they needed twice as many plumbers and doubled the wage for licensed plumbers. The supply of plumbers is fixed in the short run – raising their wage doesn’t magically increase the # of plumbers available overnight. People around here poo poo the idea of “labor shortage” and assume it is just employers being cheap but in the short run it is a real thing. If you offer higher wages for some skilled occupation you might be able to lure employees away from another employer but that is just moving the shortage around.

    And employers seeking cheap(er) labor is a natural thing and not evil in itself – the entire history of American capitalism involved employers seeking cheap (and plentiful) imported labor to build the railroads, dig coal, etc. Looking for cheap labor is what capitalists do. It may be the duty of the society to restrain them in some way (e.g. prohibit slavery) but it’s natural that employers would rather be able to fill positions (with immigrants if necessary) at current wages rather than fill their ranks by offering higher wages and squeeze their profit margins. And higher wages often set off an inflationary spiral – you raise wages and you raise prices. Everyone raises prices and the workers’ new higher paychecks aren’t worth any more than their old paychecks.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Jack D

    The key is to keep out the lowly productive.

    , @istevefan
    @Jack D


    Let’s say tomorrow all the employers in America decided that they needed twice as many plumbers and doubled the wage for licensed plumbers. The supply of plumbers is fixed in the short run – raising their wage doesn’t magically increase the # of plumbers available overnight.
     
    But that example is just as unrealistic as pointing out that Reg Caesars Econ 101 doesn't match the real world.

    There are times when you could suddenly have a demand for a certain skilled labor force. But by definition skilled labor is rare, and thus would not involve mass immigration to fulfill its needs.

    By contrast the employers complaining about the labor shortage are more than likely the ones importing people to do unskilled work. As you wrote in an earlier comment:

    (traditional timber framing with its elaborate joinery required skilled labor and expensive materials but anyone can nail a 2×4 to another 2×4)
     
    And we are not importing people to do traditional timber framing, we are doing it to nail a 2x4 to another 2x4.

    Also, there is the concept of guest workers who could come in on short term contracts and leave. But somehow we get caught up in the notion that once a guest worker contributes, he is entitled forever to live in the USA. As I wrote earlier, when we hire people to build our homes, their only reward is a paycheck, not an invitation to live in our homes. The same should be true for guest workers.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Old Prude

    , @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Jack D


    Right, Econ 101 – the simplified introductory course where what they teach you doesn’t match the real world. Let’s say tomorrow all the employers in America decided that they needed twice as many plumbers and doubled the wage for licensed plumbers. The supply of plumbers is fixed in the short run – raising their wage doesn’t magically increase the # of plumbers available overnight.
     
    Well, that is what happens now. Employers (really, buyers of skilled labor) don't decide that they need twice as many plumbers, they decide they need twice as much skilled plumbing work. Increased demand raises plumbers' wages, and in some circumstances triggers overtime pay. Plumbers respond by working longer hours and increasing their incomes.

    This is what happens when there is a sudden need for a certain kind of labor - i.e., after 9/11 there was a shortage of Iron Workers in NYC due in large part to a certain large demolition project and Union Iron Workers for neighboring states were brought in to take up the slack work. I know a few of them from the Local who had significant pay bumps for two years or so because of this.

    A similar situation occurs when there is a sudden building boom - the existing tradesmen work longer hours and bank the extra income. For example, when the Casinos started going up in and around Philadelphia some trades were in very high demand and guys wound up working 80 hour weeks on end and making a lot of money (the incentives were such that the Casinos would pay extra for early delivery to get their floors open).

    On the whole they should save the extra income, because there are frequent busts where the work is slow and the income correspondingly low.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    This was not one of your better comments, Jack, and you do write a lot of good ones. This may be near the bottom, due to some real misunderstanding of economics. Of course owners of companies want as cheap labor as they can get. Supply tends to balance with demand in the long run. Our crony-capitalist class uses the power of the government to increase the supply via immigration. You get that part.

    However, there are externalities that are involved in supporting people that make $10/hr roofing, building, and picking crops. That's because we have the welfare state. All of the external costs that would require a guy to demand $20/hr for the work, due to no free WIC program, child-care, free money based on fake kids via tax credits (formerly exemptions) and the Earned-Income credit, and so on, would have to be paid by the worker. Sure, you could increase supply in a non-welfare state*, but people would quit coming here for the work at these low wages. There would be MORE of a free market in labor.

    Now, one could say, how's an employer going to make profits if labor costs are high? You'd be surprised how much of the cost of consumer goods and commodities are NOT from the labor, Jack. In Holy Moley, we're out of Guacamole!, Peak Stupidity, just looking at a 50-year old paper on time/motion studies of avocado picking, came up with just one thin DIME of additional costs to producers with a $10/hr increase (a very simple calculation, just based on pieces of fruit per hour, and that was back before some modern improvements) Yeah, I know that's a decent amount for the growers, but it's not that much of the final product at the store.

    It comes down to this: Without open borders, wages would be decent enough, just based on free-market economics and the invisible hand of supply/demand and pricing, to allow manual laborers to live a whole lot better. The big-money guys would have lost some profits.

    The point is, would someone get off his ass, and get off welfare to take a job at $20/hr versus $8.50? Most men would definitely do so, Jack. Now, your next point would be, quite reasonably, "but then, agricultural products and manufactured products would just be made overseas, and the American companies would go out of business" Yes, shipping of goods in containers is amazingly cheap now**. I think that, yes, companies here would be bound to lose out to overseas companies with cheaper labor, without tariffs. Without tariffs, with countries in various stages of development, owners can keep going for the cheaper and cheaper labor (lately, from China to Vietnam and Bangladesh).


    And higher wages often set off an inflationary spiral ....
     
    I believed that as a kid in the late-1970's high inflation. I'm not a kid anymore. I understand the concept of supply/demand with currency too. Inflation of prices is a function of an big increase in the money supply, unless the fiat money is backed by REAL MONEY, which causes a limit (money seems worth less? Convert it back to gold, per what the "note" says on the back. This doesn't work anymore, not since 1971 and Dickhead Nixon.)


    .



    * "You can have open borders or a welfare state, but not both" - Milton Freedman

    ** A couple, three grand $ to ship a 40 foot container, which can hold over 50,000 lb, across the ocean, China to Europe even!

    Replies: @Jack D, @istevefan, @Beckow

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    People around here poo poo the idea of “labor shortage” and assume it is just employers being cheap but in the short run it is a real thing.
     
    A "real thing" that demands subsidy from the taxpayers? How many immigrants even meet the annual income tax threshold?

    But at least you admit it's all "short run" thinking!

    Replies: @Jack D

  120. Anonymous[233] • Disclaimer says:
    @PiltdownMan
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Angela Merkel's husband of twenty years, Joachim Sauer, is a quantum chemist, like she used to be.

    He's had a long and distinguished career. Angela Merkel worked as a scientist for only a few years and for that length of time, has a respectable publication record (see below.)

    https://www.scopus.com/authid/detail.uri?authorId=24432527000

    Replies: @Anonymous

    No doubt Herr and Frau Merkel are at two different places at the same time.

  121. Because electricians are rotting in the fields?

    Because nobody else in the world would want to move to Germany.

    E.g.: Me, as someone who recently did.

  122. Anonymous[233] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    Right, Econ 101 - the simplified introductory course where what they teach you doesn't match the real world. Let's say tomorrow all the employers in America decided that they needed twice as many plumbers and doubled the wage for licensed plumbers. The supply of plumbers is fixed in the short run - raising their wage doesn't magically increase the # of plumbers available overnight. People around here poo poo the idea of "labor shortage" and assume it is just employers being cheap but in the short run it is a real thing. If you offer higher wages for some skilled occupation you might be able to lure employees away from another employer but that is just moving the shortage around.

    And employers seeking cheap(er) labor is a natural thing and not evil in itself - the entire history of American capitalism involved employers seeking cheap (and plentiful) imported labor to build the railroads, dig coal, etc. Looking for cheap labor is what capitalists do. It may be the duty of the society to restrain them in some way (e.g. prohibit slavery) but it's natural that employers would rather be able to fill positions (with immigrants if necessary) at current wages rather than fill their ranks by offering higher wages and squeeze their profit margins. And higher wages often set off an inflationary spiral - you raise wages and you raise prices. Everyone raises prices and the workers' new higher paychecks aren't worth any more than their old paychecks.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @istevefan, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Achmed E. Newman, @Reg Cæsar

    The key is to keep out the lowly productive.

  123. @Anonymous
    @Anon

    "Kinder Keiner Inder".

    Replies: @eah, @Joe Schmoe

    “Kinder Keiner Inder”.

    doch

  124. Merkel: doing the job that the business class wants done and Jews are no longer in Germany to do.

    Proof, if proof were needed, that Jews are merely the cat’s paw of a treacherous white gentile elite.

  125. @GermanReader2
    An acquaintance of mine works in a government-sponsored job-training program, that is mostly filled with "refugees" these days. In his estimation about 10 to 15 percent of the people he encounters in the program will ever get a real job, even though the German economy is really strong right now and in a lot of places qualified workers are scarce. In addition to the really low level of education, there are some cultural factors as well, that make it really hard for the people to find a real job. Most of the people, that are in his courses massively overestimate their own capabilities to the point, where it is laughable. He had an Iraqi, who thought that he could work in IT, because he had used a computer a few times in Iraq. Additionally, most are not able to take criticism, but take any criticism of the mismatch between their skills and their job-wishes personally.

    Replies: @jim jones, @Jack D

    It’s very hard to offer Western style constructive criticism to people who are from a “face” or shame based culture – they don’t take it well. But probably there are culturally appropriate ways of instructing them that don’t involve a loss of face.

    But that’s not the real problem. The real problem that they are importing stupid people into a technological society. Low intelligence is an incurable (and often hereditary) condition. There was a time (even in the ’50s and ’60s when the Germans were bringing in guest workers from Turkey) that all an immigrant needed was a strong back so that he could stand all day and bolt the wheels onto the VWs moving down the assembly line. But if you want to train people in how to code or practice some skilled trade, you are never going to be able to train sub-90 IQ people to do it, even if they weren’t poorly educated refugees from a different culture and language. This is why even 2nd and 3rd generation Turks are problematic. In some respects the next generation is even worse because at least the original immigrants have a work ethic and are used to hard manual labor from their rural upbringing.

    • Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work)
    @Jack D


    In some respects the next generation is even worse because at least the original immigrants have a work ethic and are used to hard manual labor from their rural upbringing.
     
    I think it's more the case that the second generations are men without a nation - they're only technically citizens of their parents' adopted country and still culturally alien, while not being really tied to their parents' countries of origin in the way that a native would be. They're orphans in a way, liable to fall into all manner of antisocial behavior as they're resentful of their present circumstances (while oblivious to the material benefits of being there) and inability to meet the expectations of success of their parents' adopted country, while unable to derive a true identity from their parents' nations of origin. This is generally a combustible situation when the country of origin and adopted nation are very culturally different.

    I think we see this in the U.S. with the children of Central American and Mexican immigrants (legal and illegal), who are for the most part technically born U.S. Citizens but who don't perform well in school or in other skilled work, and are too American and prideful to do the stoop labor that brought their parents here (it's racist that they aren't offered the position of CEO of IBM). So the default too often seems to be the gangs/drugs racket.
    , @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    Not to mention that the kids tend to be way more into Islamic revivalism than the original generation of migrants.

  126. @Hapalong Cassidy
    I cannot tell you how much I am annoyed by the way headlines are written these days. Something just seems off about them, and I can’t quite put my finger on it. This headline has two complete sentences in it, when it could have just read “Germany’s Migrants are Starting to Help its Economy”. The way it’s actually written come across as overly wordy and more than a bit smug. Headlines are supposed to be succinct and to the point. And often times, the second sentence is some kind of overly declarative statement such as “This is a Problem” or something to that effect. Is this just how they teach journalism in school these days, or are they just getting stupider, or both?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Reg Cæsar, @Mike1, @Hypnotoad666

    The headlines are just the start of the annoyance. Articles from the NYT and WaPo are written like legal briefs which use weird, contorted language to avoid inconvienent facts while trying to imply that the opposite is actually true.

    At some level it’s an interesting exercise in critical reading to pick out all the circumlocutions and evasions and figure out what they are hiding. But it’s also exhausting when you’d rather just get the facts.

    • Agree: Dtbb
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Hypnotoad666

    I'd say it's less like a legal brief and more like the old Pravda. When you are writing within the constraints of an ideological agenda you have to do a lot of "the glass is half full" type of cheerleading and omission (especially if the glass is really only 5% full) and the practiced reader learns how to do a lot of reading between the lines to glean that "half full" really means 5% full and what is going on with the other 95%. Sometimes, I get the feeling (again just like the old Pravda) that the writers are trying to sneak the truth past the censors so if you read carefully enough you can actually learn something. E.g saying that 11% of refugees have successfully completed a training program is the same thing as saying that 89% of them are on welfare, just with the ideologically correct "spin".

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

  127. @Jack D
    @GermanReader2

    It's very hard to offer Western style constructive criticism to people who are from a "face" or shame based culture - they don't take it well. But probably there are culturally appropriate ways of instructing them that don't involve a loss of face.

    But that's not the real problem. The real problem that they are importing stupid people into a technological society. Low intelligence is an incurable (and often hereditary) condition. There was a time (even in the '50s and '60s when the Germans were bringing in guest workers from Turkey) that all an immigrant needed was a strong back so that he could stand all day and bolt the wheels onto the VWs moving down the assembly line. But if you want to train people in how to code or practice some skilled trade, you are never going to be able to train sub-90 IQ people to do it, even if they weren't poorly educated refugees from a different culture and language. This is why even 2nd and 3rd generation Turks are problematic. In some respects the next generation is even worse because at least the original immigrants have a work ethic and are used to hard manual labor from their rural upbringing.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @nebulafox

    In some respects the next generation is even worse because at least the original immigrants have a work ethic and are used to hard manual labor from their rural upbringing.

    I think it’s more the case that the second generations are men without a nation – they’re only technically citizens of their parents’ adopted country and still culturally alien, while not being really tied to their parents’ countries of origin in the way that a native would be. They’re orphans in a way, liable to fall into all manner of antisocial behavior as they’re resentful of their present circumstances (while oblivious to the material benefits of being there) and inability to meet the expectations of success of their parents’ adopted country, while unable to derive a true identity from their parents’ nations of origin. This is generally a combustible situation when the country of origin and adopted nation are very culturally different.

    I think we see this in the U.S. with the children of Central American and Mexican immigrants (legal and illegal), who are for the most part technically born U.S. Citizens but who don’t perform well in school or in other skilled work, and are too American and prideful to do the stoop labor that brought their parents here (it’s racist that they aren’t offered the position of CEO of IBM). So the default too often seems to be the gangs/drugs racket.

    • Agree: Jim Don Bob
  128. istevefan says:
    @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    Right, Econ 101 - the simplified introductory course where what they teach you doesn't match the real world. Let's say tomorrow all the employers in America decided that they needed twice as many plumbers and doubled the wage for licensed plumbers. The supply of plumbers is fixed in the short run - raising their wage doesn't magically increase the # of plumbers available overnight. People around here poo poo the idea of "labor shortage" and assume it is just employers being cheap but in the short run it is a real thing. If you offer higher wages for some skilled occupation you might be able to lure employees away from another employer but that is just moving the shortage around.

    And employers seeking cheap(er) labor is a natural thing and not evil in itself - the entire history of American capitalism involved employers seeking cheap (and plentiful) imported labor to build the railroads, dig coal, etc. Looking for cheap labor is what capitalists do. It may be the duty of the society to restrain them in some way (e.g. prohibit slavery) but it's natural that employers would rather be able to fill positions (with immigrants if necessary) at current wages rather than fill their ranks by offering higher wages and squeeze their profit margins. And higher wages often set off an inflationary spiral - you raise wages and you raise prices. Everyone raises prices and the workers' new higher paychecks aren't worth any more than their old paychecks.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @istevefan, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Achmed E. Newman, @Reg Cæsar

    Let’s say tomorrow all the employers in America decided that they needed twice as many plumbers and doubled the wage for licensed plumbers. The supply of plumbers is fixed in the short run – raising their wage doesn’t magically increase the # of plumbers available overnight.

    But that example is just as unrealistic as pointing out that Reg Caesars Econ 101 doesn’t match the real world.

    There are times when you could suddenly have a demand for a certain skilled labor force. But by definition skilled labor is rare, and thus would not involve mass immigration to fulfill its needs.

    By contrast the employers complaining about the labor shortage are more than likely the ones importing people to do unskilled work. As you wrote in an earlier comment:

    (traditional timber framing with its elaborate joinery required skilled labor and expensive materials but anyone can nail a 2×4 to another 2×4)

    And we are not importing people to do traditional timber framing, we are doing it to nail a 2×4 to another 2×4.

    Also, there is the concept of guest workers who could come in on short term contracts and leave. But somehow we get caught up in the notion that once a guest worker contributes, he is entitled forever to live in the USA. As I wrote earlier, when we hire people to build our homes, their only reward is a paycheck, not an invitation to live in our homes. The same should be true for guest workers.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @istevefan

    The Arab Gulf states seem to have a fairly effective guest worker system but it is not without problems. Workers are subject to exploitation by their employers. The employees resent their permanent inferior status. The locals are entitled and lazy and unwilling to engage in any "menial" occupation. And the only reason that they can implement the system as well as they do is because these countries are not democratic.

    It's hard to imagine that we could do something like this in America 2019 , even though in the past we did have certain guest worker systems for agricultural employees and still do for seasonal employees, etc. Our modern tendency seems to be the opposite - the minute that you climb over that fence you have many of the same rights and benefits as an American citizen. We are zooming 90 mph and climbing in the opposite direction so to stop and reverse course would be no small thing.

    Replies: @istevefan, @RadicalCenter

    , @Old Prude
    @istevefan

    That's exactly right: The immigrants here in Maine are doing low-skill work in the factories, and the resorts. Stuff any teenager could do. A lot of the factory work could be automated if the company had the capital (profitability) to do so.

    Central American and Mexican Immigrants are working in the fields and kitchens and landscaping That is not HVAC or die mold work.

    If you are a lesser skilled, lesser educated American, too bad for you. You have no market leverage.

  129. @istevefan
    @Jack D


    Let’s say tomorrow all the employers in America decided that they needed twice as many plumbers and doubled the wage for licensed plumbers. The supply of plumbers is fixed in the short run – raising their wage doesn’t magically increase the # of plumbers available overnight.
     
    But that example is just as unrealistic as pointing out that Reg Caesars Econ 101 doesn't match the real world.

    There are times when you could suddenly have a demand for a certain skilled labor force. But by definition skilled labor is rare, and thus would not involve mass immigration to fulfill its needs.

    By contrast the employers complaining about the labor shortage are more than likely the ones importing people to do unskilled work. As you wrote in an earlier comment:

    (traditional timber framing with its elaborate joinery required skilled labor and expensive materials but anyone can nail a 2×4 to another 2×4)
     
    And we are not importing people to do traditional timber framing, we are doing it to nail a 2x4 to another 2x4.

    Also, there is the concept of guest workers who could come in on short term contracts and leave. But somehow we get caught up in the notion that once a guest worker contributes, he is entitled forever to live in the USA. As I wrote earlier, when we hire people to build our homes, their only reward is a paycheck, not an invitation to live in our homes. The same should be true for guest workers.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Old Prude

    The Arab Gulf states seem to have a fairly effective guest worker system but it is not without problems. Workers are subject to exploitation by their employers. The employees resent their permanent inferior status. The locals are entitled and lazy and unwilling to engage in any “menial” occupation. And the only reason that they can implement the system as well as they do is because these countries are not democratic.

    It’s hard to imagine that we could do something like this in America 2019 , even though in the past we did have certain guest worker systems for agricultural employees and still do for seasonal employees, etc. Our modern tendency seems to be the opposite – the minute that you climb over that fence you have many of the same rights and benefits as an American citizen. We are zooming 90 mph and climbing in the opposite direction so to stop and reverse course would be no small thing.

    • Replies: @istevefan
    @Jack D


    And the only reason that they can implement the system as well as they do is because these countries are not democratic.

    It’s hard to imagine that we could do something like this in America 2019 ,...
     
    A few years back Steve posted this about Canada's guest program.

    Only married men are eligible for the Canadian program, preferably those with young children, and their families must remain in Mexico. Another incentive to return home: a cut of the migrants’ wages is placed in a Canadian pension fund, receivable only if they return to Mexico.

    Then there are the other elements of the Canadian system that U.S. labor unions and farm worker advocates say they would not want to see copied.
    Once in Canada, the workers live like monks, sleeping in trailers or barracks, under contractual agreements that forbid them from drinking alcohol and having female visitors, or even socializing with other Mexican workers from different farms.

    Most of their time in Canada is limited to sleeping, eating and working long days that can stretch to 15 hours, without overtime pay.
     
    If Canada can do that, why can't we?

    Replies: @Jack D, @International Jew, @Alden

    , @RadicalCenter
    @Jack D

    It appears that so-called lower-skilled jobs in the USA will continue to be eliminated through automation: touchscreens / scanners / online ordering in supermarkets and restaurants, self-driving trucks at least for highway long-hauls, drones for some deliveries, and eventually robots for much agricultural, construction, and product manufacturing and assembly work.

    Within ten years, which professions will have open jobs for these guest workers to fill?

    We are importing a future of division, widespread chronic poverty, and thus violence. "Guest workers" under these circumstances would be disastrous, not matter what race or culture they come from, and widely divergent culture/religion/language just makes it worse.

    Replies: @Jack D

  130. @Simon in London
    Christian Syrians from the coastal & Lebanon-adjacent mountains seem fairly bright, but I'd guess most of the 'refugees' are Sunni from the inner deserts. Probably looking at median IQs around 90 or a bit lower, given Turkish median IQ is around 90. So not a lot of highly skilled workers, though not the worst. Non-Syrian fake refugees will likely average lower.

    Replies: @GermanReader2, @Anonymous, @International Jew, @Dieter Kief

    OT but can you explain why Nigel Farage can do so well in the elections to the European Parliament, while failing so miserably in elections to the British Parliament?

  131. @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    Right, Econ 101 - the simplified introductory course where what they teach you doesn't match the real world. Let's say tomorrow all the employers in America decided that they needed twice as many plumbers and doubled the wage for licensed plumbers. The supply of plumbers is fixed in the short run - raising their wage doesn't magically increase the # of plumbers available overnight. People around here poo poo the idea of "labor shortage" and assume it is just employers being cheap but in the short run it is a real thing. If you offer higher wages for some skilled occupation you might be able to lure employees away from another employer but that is just moving the shortage around.

    And employers seeking cheap(er) labor is a natural thing and not evil in itself - the entire history of American capitalism involved employers seeking cheap (and plentiful) imported labor to build the railroads, dig coal, etc. Looking for cheap labor is what capitalists do. It may be the duty of the society to restrain them in some way (e.g. prohibit slavery) but it's natural that employers would rather be able to fill positions (with immigrants if necessary) at current wages rather than fill their ranks by offering higher wages and squeeze their profit margins. And higher wages often set off an inflationary spiral - you raise wages and you raise prices. Everyone raises prices and the workers' new higher paychecks aren't worth any more than their old paychecks.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @istevefan, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Achmed E. Newman, @Reg Cæsar

    Right, Econ 101 – the simplified introductory course where what they teach you doesn’t match the real world. Let’s say tomorrow all the employers in America decided that they needed twice as many plumbers and doubled the wage for licensed plumbers. The supply of plumbers is fixed in the short run – raising their wage doesn’t magically increase the # of plumbers available overnight.

    Well, that is what happens now. Employers (really, buyers of skilled labor) don’t decide that they need twice as many plumbers, they decide they need twice as much skilled plumbing work. Increased demand raises plumbers’ wages, and in some circumstances triggers overtime pay. Plumbers respond by working longer hours and increasing their incomes.

    This is what happens when there is a sudden need for a certain kind of labor – i.e., after 9/11 there was a shortage of Iron Workers in NYC due in large part to a certain large demolition project and Union Iron Workers for neighboring states were brought in to take up the slack work. I know a few of them from the Local who had significant pay bumps for two years or so because of this.

    A similar situation occurs when there is a sudden building boom – the existing tradesmen work longer hours and bank the extra income. For example, when the Casinos started going up in and around Philadelphia some trades were in very high demand and guys wound up working 80 hour weeks on end and making a lot of money (the incentives were such that the Casinos would pay extra for early delivery to get their floors open).

    On the whole they should save the extra income, because there are frequent busts where the work is slow and the income correspondingly low.

  132. @Hypnotoad666
    @Hapalong Cassidy

    The headlines are just the start of the annoyance. Articles from the NYT and WaPo are written like legal briefs which use weird, contorted language to avoid inconvienent facts while trying to imply that the opposite is actually true.

    At some level it's an interesting exercise in critical reading to pick out all the circumlocutions and evasions and figure out what they are hiding. But it's also exhausting when you'd rather just get the facts.

    Replies: @Jack D

    I’d say it’s less like a legal brief and more like the old Pravda. When you are writing within the constraints of an ideological agenda you have to do a lot of “the glass is half full” type of cheerleading and omission (especially if the glass is really only 5% full) and the practiced reader learns how to do a lot of reading between the lines to glean that “half full” really means 5% full and what is going on with the other 95%. Sometimes, I get the feeling (again just like the old Pravda) that the writers are trying to sneak the truth past the censors so if you read carefully enough you can actually learn something. E.g saying that 11% of refugees have successfully completed a training program is the same thing as saying that 89% of them are on welfare, just with the ideologically correct “spin”.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Jack D


    I’d say it’s less like a legal brief and more like the old Pravda.
     
    Maybe that is a better comparison as at this point, the main purpose of the NYT and WaPo is apparently to inform good-thinking liberals of the Party Line they are supposed to espouse on any given topic.

    It's true that ignoring the spin and reading between the lines can yield some useful information. Like the way this article indirectly admits (through a haze of obfuscation) that the vast majority of refugees are actually unemployable welfare sponges.

    I wonder how many people have the ability to read these Pravda articles like a 1980's Kremlinolgist, though. On the other hand, I feel like I have noticed a trend of more informed and intelligent readers calling BS in the comment sections, at least at the NYT.
  133. Merkel is a genius, quiet, methodical, not flashy, inscrutable. Let’s do the numbers:

    – Germany has 82 million people
    – 1.5 million came in 2015 wave – millions more to follow in chain migration (estimate is 5-7 million)
    – 84% men between 18-30
    – Out of 7 million native young men in Germany 5.5 million were broadly European.

    Overnight Germany added 20% non-Europeans to its young men age cohort. Most live in large cities, so there the % must be approaching 30-40%. WaPo is celebrating because soon German cities will feel like back home in Washington.

    This can’t be good for anybody, except older women with charitable and other impulses. Germans put Merkel in charge and then were too embarrassed, distracted or introverted to challenge her. Now for the consequences.

  134. Angela Merkel welcomed refugees to Germany. They’re starting to help the economy.

    No, they aren’t. To help the economy, the average refugee would have to produce more than the average German, and he would have to do so by a margin that exceeds his share of the refugees’ negative effects on social cohesion etc.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @ben tillman

    The author is saying, "a handful are starting to help the economy [while most are still a burden, so that their net contribution is highly negative]." But that would require being honest which is the lasting thing they are interested in doing because honesty and racism are the same thing to them.

  135. istevefan says:
    @Jack D
    @istevefan

    The Arab Gulf states seem to have a fairly effective guest worker system but it is not without problems. Workers are subject to exploitation by their employers. The employees resent their permanent inferior status. The locals are entitled and lazy and unwilling to engage in any "menial" occupation. And the only reason that they can implement the system as well as they do is because these countries are not democratic.

    It's hard to imagine that we could do something like this in America 2019 , even though in the past we did have certain guest worker systems for agricultural employees and still do for seasonal employees, etc. Our modern tendency seems to be the opposite - the minute that you climb over that fence you have many of the same rights and benefits as an American citizen. We are zooming 90 mph and climbing in the opposite direction so to stop and reverse course would be no small thing.

    Replies: @istevefan, @RadicalCenter

    And the only reason that they can implement the system as well as they do is because these countries are not democratic.

    It’s hard to imagine that we could do something like this in America 2019 ,…

    A few years back Steve posted this about Canada’s guest program.

    Only married men are eligible for the Canadian program, preferably those with young children, and their families must remain in Mexico. Another incentive to return home: a cut of the migrants’ wages is placed in a Canadian pension fund, receivable only if they return to Mexico.

    Then there are the other elements of the Canadian system that U.S. labor unions and farm worker advocates say they would not want to see copied.
    Once in Canada, the workers live like monks, sleeping in trailers or barracks, under contractual agreements that forbid them from drinking alcohol and having female visitors, or even socializing with other Mexican workers from different farms.

    Most of their time in Canada is limited to sleeping, eating and working long days that can stretch to 15 hours, without overtime pay.

    If Canada can do that, why can’t we?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @istevefan

    TBH, the Canadian program doesn't really sound that good or fair - having the option of using semi-slave labor tends to undermine the market for free labor. If you are going to allow guest workers, you should require that their pay and working conditions be comparable to local workers so that employers really use them as a last resort in case of "labor shortages" and not as a way of saving on wages and not having to spend a lot of money providing good working conditions which is their natural tendency. The Canadian program as described sounds totalitarian - it sounds more like they are "guest prisoners" than "guest workers".

    It's also what I said before - in order to have an effective guest worker program you have to have the political will and consensus that you have one. It's hard to imagine that Americans in 2019 would support this kind of "guest prisoner" program. On the Democrat side, which is (more or less) half the population, the current consensus seems to be the opposite so the country is much too divided to have such a program and effectively enforce it. The natural tendency of "guest" workers everywhere is that they end up becoming acclimated to their new countries and never want to go back so unless you have strict enforcement mechanisms (and Americans kind of stink at effective law enforcement - we're libertarian at heart) the "guests" end up being permanent.

    , @International Jew
    @istevefan

    We could legislate a program like that into existence and it wouldn't make a bit of difference because when it comes to immigration we're now unable to enforce any of our laws. Let single men enter and it's guaranteed that in little time a way will be found to "reunite" their families on the US side of the border.

    The newest thing for the open borders activists is ensuring that convicted felons can stay here. Not photogenic children, not "hardworking migrant families looking to improve their lives". Felons. That's how far the Overton Window has shifted on us.

    , @Alden
    @istevefan

    That’s how Saudi, Kuwait, Oman etc treat a lot of their guest workers.

  136. @Anonymous

    Population of EU member Poland = 38 million. EU members Romania/Bulgaria = 27 million. Population of nearby non-EU member Ukraine 45 million.
     
    Most immigrants in Germany are from EU countries or non-EU European countries.

    This is also the case in countries like Sweden.

    https://twitter.com/turbovlach/status/1125476696285687809

    Replies: @Lurker, @Achmed E. Newman, @Buzz Mohawk, @ben tillman

    Stupid. Sweden has unlimited immigration (i.e., the spigot is never to be turned off, even if it is never opened up to full throttle), so the current % is meaningless. All that matters is that current policies (which the ruling class tells us are intended to be permanent) will eventually make the % of non-Europeans 100 and the % of Swedes 0.

    • Replies: @istevefan
    @ben tillman


    (i.e., the spigot is never to be turned off, even if it is never opened up to full throttle), so the current % is meaningless.
     
    That is true. I remember when Pat Buchanan ran for president in the 1990s, guys would tell me not to worry about immigration because hispanics were not even 10 percent of the population. They thought Buchanan was overreacting. I'd like to talk to those people now after a quarter of a century of inaction. I wonder if they are still comforted by the percentages like they were then.

    The bottom line is if you have a leak and there is no effort to fix it, it is probably not going to fix itself. And though it might be a slow leak, it is a leak nonetheless. And eventually you will have quite a mess.

    As someone on this blog pointed out, there was a time when the Plymouth colonists were only 1 percent of the area population. How'd that work out for the Indians?
    , @Anonymous
    @ben tillman

    Yeah, it's totally stupid to know what percentage of immigrants come from where. Also, nothing ever changes, so it's pointless to know anything about the percentages anyway.

  137. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    @Anonymous

    And? What does that have to do with anything, smart commenter #375?

    Ninety percent of what we put in our kitchen trash is stuff that doesn't stink after a day. It's the rest that forces us to take it outside and dump it.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    You don’t think it’s relevant that most of the trash is from other European countries? Most discussion of this topic, especially in the US, doesn’t break down stats of immigration to European countries by nationality, and tries to imply that the aggregate represents Islamic immigration. This seems to be deliberate, done for neocon reasons and to distract from America’s demographics.

    It’s also relevant in that European countries already try to attract eastern European labor.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Anonymous

    It's a matter of whether or not Europeans, as a people, want to have a united continent, like America, or not.

    Part of our strength, so far, as America, is that we share one continent, from "sea to shining sea," as one people with one language and one government. Now, the Europeans have problems, not the least of which is language. (Never underestimate the role of language in holding a people together.) Of course, now my America is being flushed down into a sewer of multi-culti-vibranti.

    The white "trash" from other parts of Europe would include my brother-in-law, who regularly drives a truck from Romania to Germany, Denmark and The Netherlands. He does not rape women or kidnap them for sex slavery. He does not knife people on the street. He does not live on welfare. He and his Eastern European friends do not form their own Sharia law systems in the middle of other people's countries.

    There is no comparison. Your point is completely bogus. As for the Europeans, let them work this out among themselves -- without invaders making their challenge harder than it already is.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  138. @Reg Cæsar
    @theo the kraut


    54% of all children with MiHiGru
     
    MiHiGru sounds deadlier than Ebola. Are there vaccines?

    Replies: @Digital Samizdat, @RadicalCenter

    There’s always the Salvini vaccine. But we need to see whether the Italians keep taking that, and there seems to be little hope for the Germans taking a similar vaccine.

  139. @istevefan
    @Jack D


    And the only reason that they can implement the system as well as they do is because these countries are not democratic.

    It’s hard to imagine that we could do something like this in America 2019 ,...
     
    A few years back Steve posted this about Canada's guest program.

    Only married men are eligible for the Canadian program, preferably those with young children, and their families must remain in Mexico. Another incentive to return home: a cut of the migrants’ wages is placed in a Canadian pension fund, receivable only if they return to Mexico.

    Then there are the other elements of the Canadian system that U.S. labor unions and farm worker advocates say they would not want to see copied.
    Once in Canada, the workers live like monks, sleeping in trailers or barracks, under contractual agreements that forbid them from drinking alcohol and having female visitors, or even socializing with other Mexican workers from different farms.

    Most of their time in Canada is limited to sleeping, eating and working long days that can stretch to 15 hours, without overtime pay.
     
    If Canada can do that, why can't we?

    Replies: @Jack D, @International Jew, @Alden

    TBH, the Canadian program doesn’t really sound that good or fair – having the option of using semi-slave labor tends to undermine the market for free labor. If you are going to allow guest workers, you should require that their pay and working conditions be comparable to local workers so that employers really use them as a last resort in case of “labor shortages” and not as a way of saving on wages and not having to spend a lot of money providing good working conditions which is their natural tendency. The Canadian program as described sounds totalitarian – it sounds more like they are “guest prisoners” than “guest workers”.

    It’s also what I said before – in order to have an effective guest worker program you have to have the political will and consensus that you have one. It’s hard to imagine that Americans in 2019 would support this kind of “guest prisoner” program. On the Democrat side, which is (more or less) half the population, the current consensus seems to be the opposite so the country is much too divided to have such a program and effectively enforce it. The natural tendency of “guest” workers everywhere is that they end up becoming acclimated to their new countries and never want to go back so unless you have strict enforcement mechanisms (and Americans kind of stink at effective law enforcement – we’re libertarian at heart) the “guests” end up being permanent.

  140. @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    Actually, German is one of the easier European languages to learn.
    For a novice it might start off difficult, but it gets easier.

    You can't say that for French, for instance, or even English - too many idiosyncrasies, nuances, colloquilliasms et .

    Replies: @The Alarmist, @Kent Nationalist, @Buzz Mohawk, @PiltdownMan, @ben tillman

    It’s 10 times harder than Swedish and at least 5 times harder than Spanish, but I guess you could find some languages with different alphabets or Slavic or Ugric origins that might be harder, but surely it and English are the hardest of the Germanic and Romance languages.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @ben tillman

    In the scheme of all the world's languages, German should not be one of the harder ones for English-speakers to learn.

    Of the most widely spoken languages in the world, three are no great stretch for any Romance-language speaker: Spanish (Mexico/USA/Latin America/Spain), Portuguese (Brazil, Portugal), and French (France & other African places).

    With those exceptions, German is easier than the world's widely spoken languages.

    Russian is generally harder for us English-speakers than German,
    while the rest of the top ten world languages are WAY harder:

    Mandarin, Hindi, Arabic, Bengali, Urdu

    As for larger languages outside the top ten, Cantonese and Japanese are far harder than German as well.

    , @Jack D
    @ben tillman

    People who have attempted to address this systematically (by number of hours of class work needed to be proficient) say that German (750 hrs) is SLIGHTLY harder than learning the easiest languages for an English speaker (e.g. Spanish or Dutch - 600 hrs) but less hard that languages that are significantly different (Polish, Hungarian- 1100 hrs) and much less hard than Chinese or Arabic (2200 hours - over a year of full time 40 hr/ wk study). So if Spanish is a 1 then German is a 1.3, Polish a 2 and Chinese is a 4x factor of difficulty.

    https://www.effectivelanguagelearning.com/language-guide/language-difficulty

    Vice versa - going from Arabic to English or German - is also very difficult. Going from knowing only Arabic to any Western language would be difficult but English and German might be slightly harder than Spanish or French.

  141. @Rusty
    All this emphasis on "growth!". "We must have growth!!" "We must maintain growth!!"


    What would happen if a country just stayed stable, productive and harmonious?

    Would that be so terrible?

    Seems to me that if you look at the debt clocks of these "growth" obsessed countries, the growth is all fake anyway.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Old Prude, @Joe Schmoe

    What would happen if a country just stayed stable, productive and harmonious?

    That should be the goal.

    If I had an AGREE button left, I would click on it now for your whole comment.

  142. 216 says:
    @istevefan
    Three thoughts on this post:

    1) Again they treat 2015 as some sort of year zero of alien immigration into Europe. There has been tons of alien immigrants into Europe in the past 3 decades, and it continues unabated. Focusing on 2015, as if it is now over, seems to be done to make people believe it really is over, when it is not.

    2) Some have mentioned the Turk guest workers. What I don't understand is why do guest workers even get a consideration to stay when they came under the conditions that they were guest workers in the first place? Apologists say they helped build Germany or country X, and thus deserve to stay. Big deal, the guys who remodeled your kitchen with stunning granite do not get to hang around and live in your house. After they are paid, you hopefully never see them again.

    3) If they are tracking people after 4 years, and find the majority are not even in job training, and of those that are most are still not prepared to enter the workforce, then what is the point in bringing in immigrants? A German couple could have a kid, and he would be ready to enter the workforce at age 18, if not sooner. Immigrants were supposed to provided ready-trained labor. But if it takes that long to get them up to speed, open border types can't even make that argument. All roads point to encouraging/helping the natives have kids. There is no replacement for their own kids.

    Replies: @216

    2) Some have mentioned the Turk guest workers. What I don’t understand is why do guest workers even get a consideration to stay when they came under the conditions that they were guest workers in the first place? Apologists say they helped build Germany or country X, and thus deserve to stay. Big deal, the guys who remodeled your kitchen with stunning granite do not get to hang around and live in your house. After they are paid, you hopefully never see them again.

    It’s Marxism. Read up on what they term as “exploitation” and its easy to map it over onto Cultural Marxism.

    https://oyc.yale.edu/sociology/socy-151/lecture-13

  143. @Jack D
    @istevefan

    The Arab Gulf states seem to have a fairly effective guest worker system but it is not without problems. Workers are subject to exploitation by their employers. The employees resent their permanent inferior status. The locals are entitled and lazy and unwilling to engage in any "menial" occupation. And the only reason that they can implement the system as well as they do is because these countries are not democratic.

    It's hard to imagine that we could do something like this in America 2019 , even though in the past we did have certain guest worker systems for agricultural employees and still do for seasonal employees, etc. Our modern tendency seems to be the opposite - the minute that you climb over that fence you have many of the same rights and benefits as an American citizen. We are zooming 90 mph and climbing in the opposite direction so to stop and reverse course would be no small thing.

    Replies: @istevefan, @RadicalCenter

    It appears that so-called lower-skilled jobs in the USA will continue to be eliminated through automation: touchscreens / scanners / online ordering in supermarkets and restaurants, self-driving trucks at least for highway long-hauls, drones for some deliveries, and eventually robots for much agricultural, construction, and product manufacturing and assembly work.

    Within ten years, which professions will have open jobs for these guest workers to fill?

    We are importing a future of division, widespread chronic poverty, and thus violence. “Guest workers” under these circumstances would be disastrous, not matter what race or culture they come from, and widely divergent culture/religion/language just makes it worse.

    • Agree: Old Prude
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @RadicalCenter

    Not true if they are TRULY guest workers - the whole idea is that if and when you don't need the "guests" anymore you send them home and that's that.

    But the reality is that "guest" workers tend to stay permanently - at least a certain (high) % of them, no matter what the rules of the program are initially. And when they stay they bring in their spouses and children (and have more children who are birthright US citizens) and their parents and their sisters and their cousins and their aunts so that 1 immigrant might lead to a chain of dozens more. Having a REAL guest worker program would be better than the chaos we have now where people just walk across the border but we don't have the civilizational confidence to have a real, effectively enforced guest worker program and if we did, it would only be over and above all the illegal aliens would would continue to sneak in.

  144. @ben tillman

    Angela Merkel welcomed refugees to Germany. They’re starting to help the economy.
     
    No, they aren't. To help the economy, the average refugee would have to produce more than the average German, and he would have to do so by a margin that exceeds his share of the refugees' negative effects on social cohesion etc.

    Replies: @Jack D

    The author is saying, “a handful are starting to help the economy [while most are still a burden, so that their net contribution is highly negative].” But that would require being honest which is the lasting thing they are interested in doing because honesty and racism are the same thing to them.

  145. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Anonymous

    I wonder how cities like Malmo became Moslem cities, then, #375. Where'd they get all the Moslems, Al-fucking-Bania?

    Replies: @Fredrik

    A large segment of the Malmö muslims are from the former Yugoslavia. Bosnia, Kosovo etc are common backgrounds. Other muslims are Iranians.

    It hasn’t been all that common with the honour cousins from Arabia or other really backward places but that’s of course rapidly changing.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Fredrik

    OK, thanks for the info., Fredrik.

  146. istevefan says:
    @ben tillman
    @Anonymous

    Stupid. Sweden has unlimited immigration (i.e., the spigot is never to be turned off, even if it is never opened up to full throttle), so the current % is meaningless. All that matters is that current policies (which the ruling class tells us are intended to be permanent) will eventually make the % of non-Europeans 100 and the % of Swedes 0.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Anonymous

    (i.e., the spigot is never to be turned off, even if it is never opened up to full throttle), so the current % is meaningless.

    That is true. I remember when Pat Buchanan ran for president in the 1990s, guys would tell me not to worry about immigration because hispanics were not even 10 percent of the population. They thought Buchanan was overreacting. I’d like to talk to those people now after a quarter of a century of inaction. I wonder if they are still comforted by the percentages like they were then.

    The bottom line is if you have a leak and there is no effort to fix it, it is probably not going to fix itself. And though it might be a slow leak, it is a leak nonetheless. And eventually you will have quite a mess.

    As someone on this blog pointed out, there was a time when the Plymouth colonists were only 1 percent of the area population. How’d that work out for the Indians?

  147. @ben tillman
    @Anonymous

    It's 10 times harder than Swedish and at least 5 times harder than Spanish, but I guess you could find some languages with different alphabets or Slavic or Ugric origins that might be harder, but surely it and English are the hardest of the Germanic and Romance languages.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Jack D

    In the scheme of all the world’s languages, German should not be one of the harder ones for English-speakers to learn.

    Of the most widely spoken languages in the world, three are no great stretch for any Romance-language speaker: Spanish (Mexico/USA/Latin America/Spain), Portuguese (Brazil, Portugal), and French (France & other African places).

    With those exceptions, German is easier than the world’s widely spoken languages.

    Russian is generally harder for us English-speakers than German,
    while the rest of the top ten world languages are WAY harder:

    Mandarin, Hindi, Arabic, Bengali, Urdu

    As for larger languages outside the top ten, Cantonese and Japanese are far harder than German as well.

  148. @Rusty
    All this emphasis on "growth!". "We must have growth!!" "We must maintain growth!!"


    What would happen if a country just stayed stable, productive and harmonious?

    Would that be so terrible?

    Seems to me that if you look at the debt clocks of these "growth" obsessed countries, the growth is all fake anyway.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Old Prude, @Joe Schmoe

    This nails it. The more sardines the in can the better! Work for any corporation: The goal is Growth. There is no voice in the public sphere saying “Enough”. That used to be the role of the environmentalists, but they’ve been cowed by cash and P.C.

  149. @istevefan
    @Jack D


    And the only reason that they can implement the system as well as they do is because these countries are not democratic.

    It’s hard to imagine that we could do something like this in America 2019 ,...
     
    A few years back Steve posted this about Canada's guest program.

    Only married men are eligible for the Canadian program, preferably those with young children, and their families must remain in Mexico. Another incentive to return home: a cut of the migrants’ wages is placed in a Canadian pension fund, receivable only if they return to Mexico.

    Then there are the other elements of the Canadian system that U.S. labor unions and farm worker advocates say they would not want to see copied.
    Once in Canada, the workers live like monks, sleeping in trailers or barracks, under contractual agreements that forbid them from drinking alcohol and having female visitors, or even socializing with other Mexican workers from different farms.

    Most of their time in Canada is limited to sleeping, eating and working long days that can stretch to 15 hours, without overtime pay.
     
    If Canada can do that, why can't we?

    Replies: @Jack D, @International Jew, @Alden

    We could legislate a program like that into existence and it wouldn’t make a bit of difference because when it comes to immigration we’re now unable to enforce any of our laws. Let single men enter and it’s guaranteed that in little time a way will be found to “reunite” their families on the US side of the border.

    The newest thing for the open borders activists is ensuring that convicted felons can stay here. Not photogenic children, not “hardworking migrant families looking to improve their lives”. Felons. That’s how far the Overton Window has shifted on us.

    • Agree: Jack D, Buzz Mohawk
  150. @Anon
    They’re also helping the economy of Portland, Maine, which is taking in Sub-Saharan Africans coming over the southern border.

    https://www.pressherald.com/2019/05/06/more-asylum-seekers-arrive-in-portland-from-southern-border-as-city-debates-assistance/

    More asylum seekers arrive in Portland from southern border as city debates assistance

    Portland's human resources director criticizes comments by Mayor Ethan Strimling welcoming the arrival of more immigrants.

    ...Last year, Portland officials warned that its family shelter was reaching a crisis level, in part because of an influx of families from African countries such as Angola and the Democratic Republic of Congo who have applied for asylum and are prohibited from working. The city shelter can hold about 146 people. Another 35 floor mats can be set up at the shelter and an additional 80 floor mats can be set up at the Salvation Army gym to accommodate overflow.

    The Maine Sunday Telegram reported on the increasing numbers of sub-Saharan African families making the long and dangerous journey through Central America to the southern border. At the time, Long told the paper that many families staying at the Texas shelter were asking to come to Portland because of the support the city provides and because of the immigrant community that has taken root here...

    ...While critics often point to the cost of immigration and the burden on social services when people arrive without incomes or resources, a report commissioned by Portland’s Office of Economic Opportunity and the Portland Regional Chamber of Commerce came to a different conclusion about the long-term impacts.

    That report said immigrants contributed $1.2 billion to the Greater Portland metro region’s gross domestic product, paid $133 million in federal taxes and $62 million in state taxes; contributed $57.3 million to Social Security and $14.7 million to Medicare; and helped create or preserve over 1,100 local manufacturing jobs...

    Comments are disabled on some stories about sensitive topics.

    https://multifiles.pressherald.com/uploads/sites/10/2019/04/1736654_375482-20181205_AsylumOve3-1024x683-1024x683.jpg

     

    Replies: @Old Prude, @Anonymous

    Yes, they have helped preserve the manufacturing jobs: Low skilled, low pay manufacturing jobs. Because if those companies had to pay decent middle class American wages, they would go out of business. I know. I work for one of them. Here’s another local Portland employer who does the same: The job entails stuffing cheese into frozen chickens: Work Americans won’t do for crap wages, but foreigners will do the work, when subsidized with a considerable welfare stipend.

    It would be better for the local community to have the businesses go-under so their workers are available to more viable enterprises who are starved for good workers. Instead, we get waves of fecund Somalis, Congolese and Iraqis squatting in the cities and schools to provide cheap manpower for businesses with a scarcely viable commercial position.

    What is particularly galling is how these crummy exploitive enterprises get media props for helping these “New Americans”, as they like to call them.

  151. @istevefan
    @Jack D


    Let’s say tomorrow all the employers in America decided that they needed twice as many plumbers and doubled the wage for licensed plumbers. The supply of plumbers is fixed in the short run – raising their wage doesn’t magically increase the # of plumbers available overnight.
     
    But that example is just as unrealistic as pointing out that Reg Caesars Econ 101 doesn't match the real world.

    There are times when you could suddenly have a demand for a certain skilled labor force. But by definition skilled labor is rare, and thus would not involve mass immigration to fulfill its needs.

    By contrast the employers complaining about the labor shortage are more than likely the ones importing people to do unskilled work. As you wrote in an earlier comment:

    (traditional timber framing with its elaborate joinery required skilled labor and expensive materials but anyone can nail a 2×4 to another 2×4)
     
    And we are not importing people to do traditional timber framing, we are doing it to nail a 2x4 to another 2x4.

    Also, there is the concept of guest workers who could come in on short term contracts and leave. But somehow we get caught up in the notion that once a guest worker contributes, he is entitled forever to live in the USA. As I wrote earlier, when we hire people to build our homes, their only reward is a paycheck, not an invitation to live in our homes. The same should be true for guest workers.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Old Prude

    That’s exactly right: The immigrants here in Maine are doing low-skill work in the factories, and the resorts. Stuff any teenager could do. A lot of the factory work could be automated if the company had the capital (profitability) to do so.

    Central American and Mexican Immigrants are working in the fields and kitchens and landscaping That is not HVAC or die mold work.

    If you are a lesser skilled, lesser educated American, too bad for you. You have no market leverage.

  152. Wouldn’t want the Turks already in Germany to feel othered. Now they can feel Superior to the Germans who let their women dress like whores and the new comers who can’t be bothered to even try and hide when they rape and molest the German whores.

  153. @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    Right, Econ 101 - the simplified introductory course where what they teach you doesn't match the real world. Let's say tomorrow all the employers in America decided that they needed twice as many plumbers and doubled the wage for licensed plumbers. The supply of plumbers is fixed in the short run - raising their wage doesn't magically increase the # of plumbers available overnight. People around here poo poo the idea of "labor shortage" and assume it is just employers being cheap but in the short run it is a real thing. If you offer higher wages for some skilled occupation you might be able to lure employees away from another employer but that is just moving the shortage around.

    And employers seeking cheap(er) labor is a natural thing and not evil in itself - the entire history of American capitalism involved employers seeking cheap (and plentiful) imported labor to build the railroads, dig coal, etc. Looking for cheap labor is what capitalists do. It may be the duty of the society to restrain them in some way (e.g. prohibit slavery) but it's natural that employers would rather be able to fill positions (with immigrants if necessary) at current wages rather than fill their ranks by offering higher wages and squeeze their profit margins. And higher wages often set off an inflationary spiral - you raise wages and you raise prices. Everyone raises prices and the workers' new higher paychecks aren't worth any more than their old paychecks.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @istevefan, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Achmed E. Newman, @Reg Cæsar

    This was not one of your better comments, Jack, and you do write a lot of good ones. This may be near the bottom, due to some real misunderstanding of economics. Of course owners of companies want as cheap labor as they can get. Supply tends to balance with demand in the long run. Our crony-capitalist class uses the power of the government to increase the supply via immigration. You get that part.

    However, there are externalities that are involved in supporting people that make $10/hr roofing, building, and picking crops. That’s because we have the welfare state. All of the external costs that would require a guy to demand $20/hr for the work, due to no free WIC program, child-care, free money based on fake kids via tax credits (formerly exemptions) and the Earned-Income credit, and so on, would have to be paid by the worker. Sure, you could increase supply in a non-welfare state*, but people would quit coming here for the work at these low wages. There would be MORE of a free market in labor.

    Now, one could say, how’s an employer going to make profits if labor costs are high? You’d be surprised how much of the cost of consumer goods and commodities are NOT from the labor, Jack. In Holy Moley, we’re out of Guacamole!, Peak Stupidity, just looking at a 50-year old paper on time/motion studies of avocado picking, came up with just one thin DIME of additional costs to producers with a $10/hr increase (a very simple calculation, just based on pieces of fruit per hour, and that was back before some modern improvements) Yeah, I know that’s a decent amount for the growers, but it’s not that much of the final product at the store.

    It comes down to this: Without open borders, wages would be decent enough, just based on free-market economics and the invisible hand of supply/demand and pricing, to allow manual laborers to live a whole lot better. The big-money guys would have lost some profits.

    The point is, would someone get off his ass, and get off welfare to take a job at $20/hr versus $8.50? Most men would definitely do so, Jack. Now, your next point would be, quite reasonably, “but then, agricultural products and manufactured products would just be made overseas, and the American companies would go out of business” Yes, shipping of goods in containers is amazingly cheap now**. I think that, yes, companies here would be bound to lose out to overseas companies with cheaper labor, without tariffs. Without tariffs, with countries in various stages of development, owners can keep going for the cheaper and cheaper labor (lately, from China to Vietnam and Bangladesh).

    And higher wages often set off an inflationary spiral ….

    I believed that as a kid in the late-1970’s high inflation. I’m not a kid anymore. I understand the concept of supply/demand with currency too. Inflation of prices is a function of an big increase in the money supply, unless the fiat money is backed by REAL MONEY, which causes a limit (money seems worth less? Convert it back to gold, per what the “note” says on the back. This doesn’t work anymore, not since 1971 and Dickhead Nixon.)

    .

    * “You can have open borders or a welfare state, but not both” – Milton Freedman

    ** A couple, three grand $ to ship a 40 foot container, which can hold over 50,000 lb, across the ocean, China to Europe even!

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Yeah, I know that’s [10 cents per avocado] a decent amount for the growers, but it’s not that much of the final product at the store.
     
    That's not how it works. If the retail price of avocados is 400% of the amount that the farmer gets (a reasonable guess) then a 10 cent increase at the farm gate means a 40 cent increase in retail price.

    BTW, I've noticed that most of the (Haas) avocadoes I see in the supermarket nowadays are from Mexico and not California - I think it's been years since I saw a California avocado. For that matter, a LOT of produce that used to come from Cal. nowadays comes from MX.

    I'm not going to get into an extensive debate with you on labor economics - you could write a book on this subject and still not cover it all.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @istevefan

    , @istevefan
    @Achmed E. Newman


    It comes down to this: Without open borders, wages would be decent enough, just based on free-market economics and the invisible hand of supply/demand and pricing, to allow manual laborers to live a whole lot better. The big-money guys would have lost some profits.
     
    Additionally without open borders there would be more technological innovation. As labor rises it gets to a point where it becomes cost effective to get machinery to do more of the work. This tends to create a new industry that creates and services that machinery and frees up workers, who are replaced by that machinery, to enter into other fields.

    Take the Bobcat skid steer loader. That machine was invented during the 1950s when the labor market was tight. If employers had millions of Mexicans at their disposal, they could have continued to dig and excavate by hand. But with the tight labor market it became affordable to buy the little Bobcats. This created a whole new industry. Today one cannot imagine a job site in the USA without a Bobcat or similar copy. This wouldn't have happened if cheap labor had been allowed to flood the market.
    , @Beckow
    @Achmed E. Newman


    ...Without open borders, wages would be decent enough, just based on free-market economics and the invisible hand of supply/demand
     
    That's the key. Post WWII for two generations borders were either closed or only partially opened - it led to the best labor market and growing prosperity. The business people and their hired academic economists were unhappy - the middle classes were uppity, the ability to accumulate $10 billion limited. So they changed the game.

    Starting in the 70's and 80's they worked on increasing labor supply with open borders, trade deals, and adding most women to the workforce. The policy could be summarised as: flood the labor markets with as much supply as possible. The transition is almost over and we see the results: most Western societies have lost the ability for working people to form and sustain families, inequality has increased dramatically, there is debt everywhere, and cultures are collapsing under the global migration pressures.

    The global cheap labor nirvana won't last, but the coming economic cataclysm is going to make things even worse. The academicians will probably blame racism and misogyny - they have already started, it is a sign of desperation. Notice that unlike a few years back nobody seriosly claims that the open borders globalism is a win-win for everybody. Now they say that it is inevitable, just learn how to live with it.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Anonymous

  154. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Lagertha

    AGREED, Lagertha. Merkel was from old establisment-Commie stock and got degrees in Physical Chemistry. She can't be stupid, so that'd make her evil then. She's got a lot of blood on her hands. As for her suitability as "life partner", I wouldn't go near her with Emmanuel Macron's 10 ft. pole.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas, @PiltdownMan, @Dtbb

    Reminds me of this.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Dtbb

    Hahahaaaa! Thanks, Dtbb.

  155. @ben tillman
    @Anonymous

    It's 10 times harder than Swedish and at least 5 times harder than Spanish, but I guess you could find some languages with different alphabets or Slavic or Ugric origins that might be harder, but surely it and English are the hardest of the Germanic and Romance languages.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Jack D

    People who have attempted to address this systematically (by number of hours of class work needed to be proficient) say that German (750 hrs) is SLIGHTLY harder than learning the easiest languages for an English speaker (e.g. Spanish or Dutch – 600 hrs) but less hard that languages that are significantly different (Polish, Hungarian- 1100 hrs) and much less hard than Chinese or Arabic (2200 hours – over a year of full time 40 hr/ wk study). So if Spanish is a 1 then German is a 1.3, Polish a 2 and Chinese is a 4x factor of difficulty.

    https://www.effectivelanguagelearning.com/language-guide/language-difficulty

    Vice versa – going from Arabic to English or German – is also very difficult. Going from knowing only Arabic to any Western language would be difficult but English and German might be slightly harder than Spanish or French.

  156. Germany has a lot of underemployed citizens. They even have mocking, derisive terms for the TV programs aimed at these groups of underemployed German citizens, and yet, they are bending over backwards to offer training to noncitizens.

    That should go over well.

    Meanwhile, robotics will displace most of them—even the most womb productive and welfare eligible of the glorified “working families” of every skin-pigmentation hue.

    The US should run this guy for president. I don’t agree with him on every single topic, but he is brilliant and addresses all of the major issues so clearly, like a couple of other economists.

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/05/07/are-you-ready-for-a-worse-dystopia-than-1984/

    This guy has the professional background in the political world to run without any questioning of his credibility. It would be so funny to see the MSMers go up against his questions—the serious ones they never bother to ask about this “booming” economy.

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/05/02/does-america-have-an-economy-or-any-sense-of-reality/

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Endgame Napoleon

    Look at all the sense that guy made in about ten paragraphs. I was a fan from his appearances in CounterPunch.

  157. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    This was not one of your better comments, Jack, and you do write a lot of good ones. This may be near the bottom, due to some real misunderstanding of economics. Of course owners of companies want as cheap labor as they can get. Supply tends to balance with demand in the long run. Our crony-capitalist class uses the power of the government to increase the supply via immigration. You get that part.

    However, there are externalities that are involved in supporting people that make $10/hr roofing, building, and picking crops. That's because we have the welfare state. All of the external costs that would require a guy to demand $20/hr for the work, due to no free WIC program, child-care, free money based on fake kids via tax credits (formerly exemptions) and the Earned-Income credit, and so on, would have to be paid by the worker. Sure, you could increase supply in a non-welfare state*, but people would quit coming here for the work at these low wages. There would be MORE of a free market in labor.

    Now, one could say, how's an employer going to make profits if labor costs are high? You'd be surprised how much of the cost of consumer goods and commodities are NOT from the labor, Jack. In Holy Moley, we're out of Guacamole!, Peak Stupidity, just looking at a 50-year old paper on time/motion studies of avocado picking, came up with just one thin DIME of additional costs to producers with a $10/hr increase (a very simple calculation, just based on pieces of fruit per hour, and that was back before some modern improvements) Yeah, I know that's a decent amount for the growers, but it's not that much of the final product at the store.

    It comes down to this: Without open borders, wages would be decent enough, just based on free-market economics and the invisible hand of supply/demand and pricing, to allow manual laborers to live a whole lot better. The big-money guys would have lost some profits.

    The point is, would someone get off his ass, and get off welfare to take a job at $20/hr versus $8.50? Most men would definitely do so, Jack. Now, your next point would be, quite reasonably, "but then, agricultural products and manufactured products would just be made overseas, and the American companies would go out of business" Yes, shipping of goods in containers is amazingly cheap now**. I think that, yes, companies here would be bound to lose out to overseas companies with cheaper labor, without tariffs. Without tariffs, with countries in various stages of development, owners can keep going for the cheaper and cheaper labor (lately, from China to Vietnam and Bangladesh).


    And higher wages often set off an inflationary spiral ....
     
    I believed that as a kid in the late-1970's high inflation. I'm not a kid anymore. I understand the concept of supply/demand with currency too. Inflation of prices is a function of an big increase in the money supply, unless the fiat money is backed by REAL MONEY, which causes a limit (money seems worth less? Convert it back to gold, per what the "note" says on the back. This doesn't work anymore, not since 1971 and Dickhead Nixon.)


    .



    * "You can have open borders or a welfare state, but not both" - Milton Freedman

    ** A couple, three grand $ to ship a 40 foot container, which can hold over 50,000 lb, across the ocean, China to Europe even!

    Replies: @Jack D, @istevefan, @Beckow

    Yeah, I know that’s [10 cents per avocado] a decent amount for the growers, but it’s not that much of the final product at the store.

    That’s not how it works. If the retail price of avocados is 400% of the amount that the farmer gets (a reasonable guess) then a 10 cent increase at the farm gate means a 40 cent increase in retail price.

    BTW, I’ve noticed that most of the (Haas) avocadoes I see in the supermarket nowadays are from Mexico and not California – I think it’s been years since I saw a California avocado. For that matter, a LOT of produce that used to come from Cal. nowadays comes from MX.

    I’m not going to get into an extensive debate with you on labor economics – you could write a book on this subject and still not cover it all.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    Wow, extremely quick replies here and moderation on my comments. Steve, are you on speed today, or just turning over a new leaf? Thanks, either way!

    Jack, I do understand what you wrote in your 1st paragraph here. That's correct. I should have noted how my estimate was EXTREMELY conservative, as, not being in that business, I didn't know how many pieces per box (as the study suggested a range of 20 to 80) I used the lowest, but pick times were put in terms of boxes. It was back-of-the-envelope, with every step leaning conservative. It could be 3 cents very easily. OK, then that's perhaps 15 to 20 cents at the store.

    Could it be that California taxes the living shit out of every step of every productive thing anybody does? I believe so.


    I’m not going to get into an extensive debate with you on labor economics – you could write a book on this subject and still not cover it all.
     
    Agreed!
    , @istevefan
    @Jack D

    Here is an NY Times op-ed from 2011 about the economics of agricultural field workers, by Philip Martin a labor economist at UC Davis.


    Consumers who pay $1 for a pound of apples are giving 30 cents to the farmer and 10 cents to the farm worker; those spending $2 for a head of lettuce are giving 50 cents to the farmer and 16 cents to the farm worker.

    If the influx of immigrant workers were slowed or stopped and farm wages rose, what would happen to expenditures on fresh fruits and vegetables? A case study from 1966 could give us some idea.

    That year, the United Farm Workers union won a 40 percent wage increase for some table grape harvesters, largely because the end of the Bracero program had cut off a supply of Mexican workers. The average earnings of U.S. field workers were $10.07 an hour in 2009, according to a U.S.D.A. survey of farm employers. If pressure to verify employees’ legal status resulted in a labor crisis similar to the one in 1966 and a similar 40 percent wage increase, average hourly earnings would rise to $14.10. If this were passed on to consumers, the 10 cent farm labor cost of a pound of apples would rise to 14 cents, and the $1 retail price would rise to $1.04.

    For a typical household, a 40 percent increase in farm labor costs translates into a 3.6 percent increase in retail prices. If farm wages rose 40 percent, and this wage increase were passed on to consumers, average spending on fresh fruits and vegetables would rise about $15 a year, the cost of two movie tickets. However, for a typical seasonal farm worker, a 40 percent wage increase could raise earnings from $10,000 for 1,000 hours of work to $14,000 — lifting the wage above the federal poverty line.
     

    Replies: @Jack D, @Hypnotoad666

  158. Merkel has massively increased the colonizer population of non-Europeans in Germany. Germany had Turks brought in to destroy cultural cohesion in Germany and to keep wages low, but Merkel’s mass immigration invasion plot has massively increased the inundation of Germany with non-Europeans.

    How many more non-Europeans will flood into Germany?

    Tweet from 2015:

  159. res says:
    @GermanReader2
    @Redneck farmer

    Imo, most low iq people have high time preference.

    Replies: @Redneck farmer, @res

    Imo, most low iq people have high time preference.

    Agreed. Any idea what drives the relationship? Are there any studies on that?

    Study I would like to see. At about age 5 administer a large group of children both the marshmallow test and an IQ test. 40 years later evaluate how their relative success varied by the test results. Also evaluate how their age 45 results on both tests (or equivalents) compare to their age 5 results.

  160. istevefan says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    This was not one of your better comments, Jack, and you do write a lot of good ones. This may be near the bottom, due to some real misunderstanding of economics. Of course owners of companies want as cheap labor as they can get. Supply tends to balance with demand in the long run. Our crony-capitalist class uses the power of the government to increase the supply via immigration. You get that part.

    However, there are externalities that are involved in supporting people that make $10/hr roofing, building, and picking crops. That's because we have the welfare state. All of the external costs that would require a guy to demand $20/hr for the work, due to no free WIC program, child-care, free money based on fake kids via tax credits (formerly exemptions) and the Earned-Income credit, and so on, would have to be paid by the worker. Sure, you could increase supply in a non-welfare state*, but people would quit coming here for the work at these low wages. There would be MORE of a free market in labor.

    Now, one could say, how's an employer going to make profits if labor costs are high? You'd be surprised how much of the cost of consumer goods and commodities are NOT from the labor, Jack. In Holy Moley, we're out of Guacamole!, Peak Stupidity, just looking at a 50-year old paper on time/motion studies of avocado picking, came up with just one thin DIME of additional costs to producers with a $10/hr increase (a very simple calculation, just based on pieces of fruit per hour, and that was back before some modern improvements) Yeah, I know that's a decent amount for the growers, but it's not that much of the final product at the store.

    It comes down to this: Without open borders, wages would be decent enough, just based on free-market economics and the invisible hand of supply/demand and pricing, to allow manual laborers to live a whole lot better. The big-money guys would have lost some profits.

    The point is, would someone get off his ass, and get off welfare to take a job at $20/hr versus $8.50? Most men would definitely do so, Jack. Now, your next point would be, quite reasonably, "but then, agricultural products and manufactured products would just be made overseas, and the American companies would go out of business" Yes, shipping of goods in containers is amazingly cheap now**. I think that, yes, companies here would be bound to lose out to overseas companies with cheaper labor, without tariffs. Without tariffs, with countries in various stages of development, owners can keep going for the cheaper and cheaper labor (lately, from China to Vietnam and Bangladesh).


    And higher wages often set off an inflationary spiral ....
     
    I believed that as a kid in the late-1970's high inflation. I'm not a kid anymore. I understand the concept of supply/demand with currency too. Inflation of prices is a function of an big increase in the money supply, unless the fiat money is backed by REAL MONEY, which causes a limit (money seems worth less? Convert it back to gold, per what the "note" says on the back. This doesn't work anymore, not since 1971 and Dickhead Nixon.)


    .



    * "You can have open borders or a welfare state, but not both" - Milton Freedman

    ** A couple, three grand $ to ship a 40 foot container, which can hold over 50,000 lb, across the ocean, China to Europe even!

    Replies: @Jack D, @istevefan, @Beckow

    It comes down to this: Without open borders, wages would be decent enough, just based on free-market economics and the invisible hand of supply/demand and pricing, to allow manual laborers to live a whole lot better. The big-money guys would have lost some profits.

    Additionally without open borders there would be more technological innovation. As labor rises it gets to a point where it becomes cost effective to get machinery to do more of the work. This tends to create a new industry that creates and services that machinery and frees up workers, who are replaced by that machinery, to enter into other fields.

    Take the Bobcat skid steer loader. That machine was invented during the 1950s when the labor market was tight. If employers had millions of Mexicans at their disposal, they could have continued to dig and excavate by hand. But with the tight labor market it became affordable to buy the little Bobcats. This created a whole new industry. Today one cannot imagine a job site in the USA without a Bobcat or similar copy. This wouldn’t have happened if cheap labor had been allowed to flood the market.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
  161. @Fredrik
    @Achmed E. Newman

    A large segment of the Malmö muslims are from the former Yugoslavia. Bosnia, Kosovo etc are common backgrounds. Other muslims are Iranians.

    It hasn't been all that common with the honour cousins from Arabia or other really backward places but that's of course rapidly changing.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    OK, thanks for the info., Fredrik.

  162. @Truther
    The only Germans who truly welcome these Muslim migrants are white German women who are attracted to dark hairy angry Muslim men who beat them up before, during and after sex. The gay white boys are into these macho dark hairy butch type too. Ethnic German men have become too cuck and passive for them.

    Jim Rogers said in his book Adventure Capitalist that when he was traveling through Africa, he saw many middle age overweight European women, mostly Scandinavian and German, with skinny young African "boyfriends". The women of course bought all the meals.

    As for training Muslims to be their replacement workforce, there goes that German precision and top notch engineering.

    Replies: @Anon

    Hey, Whiskey.

  163. @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Yeah, I know that’s [10 cents per avocado] a decent amount for the growers, but it’s not that much of the final product at the store.
     
    That's not how it works. If the retail price of avocados is 400% of the amount that the farmer gets (a reasonable guess) then a 10 cent increase at the farm gate means a 40 cent increase in retail price.

    BTW, I've noticed that most of the (Haas) avocadoes I see in the supermarket nowadays are from Mexico and not California - I think it's been years since I saw a California avocado. For that matter, a LOT of produce that used to come from Cal. nowadays comes from MX.

    I'm not going to get into an extensive debate with you on labor economics - you could write a book on this subject and still not cover it all.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @istevefan

    Wow, extremely quick replies here and moderation on my comments. Steve, are you on speed today, or just turning over a new leaf? Thanks, either way!

    Jack, I do understand what you wrote in your 1st paragraph here. That’s correct. I should have noted how my estimate was EXTREMELY conservative, as, not being in that business, I didn’t know how many pieces per box (as the study suggested a range of 20 to 80) I used the lowest, but pick times were put in terms of boxes. It was back-of-the-envelope, with every step leaning conservative. It could be 3 cents very easily. OK, then that’s perhaps 15 to 20 cents at the store.

    Could it be that California taxes the living shit out of every step of every productive thing anybody does? I believe so.

    I’m not going to get into an extensive debate with you on labor economics – you could write a book on this subject and still not cover it all.

    Agreed!

  164. istevefan says:
    @Jack D
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Yeah, I know that’s [10 cents per avocado] a decent amount for the growers, but it’s not that much of the final product at the store.
     
    That's not how it works. If the retail price of avocados is 400% of the amount that the farmer gets (a reasonable guess) then a 10 cent increase at the farm gate means a 40 cent increase in retail price.

    BTW, I've noticed that most of the (Haas) avocadoes I see in the supermarket nowadays are from Mexico and not California - I think it's been years since I saw a California avocado. For that matter, a LOT of produce that used to come from Cal. nowadays comes from MX.

    I'm not going to get into an extensive debate with you on labor economics - you could write a book on this subject and still not cover it all.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @istevefan

    Here is an NY Times op-ed from 2011 about the economics of agricultural field workers, by Philip Martin a labor economist at UC Davis.

    Consumers who pay $1 for a pound of apples are giving 30 cents to the farmer and 10 cents to the farm worker; those spending $2 for a head of lettuce are giving 50 cents to the farmer and 16 cents to the farm worker.

    If the influx of immigrant workers were slowed or stopped and farm wages rose, what would happen to expenditures on fresh fruits and vegetables? A case study from 1966 could give us some idea.

    That year, the United Farm Workers union won a 40 percent wage increase for some table grape harvesters, largely because the end of the Bracero program had cut off a supply of Mexican workers. The average earnings of U.S. field workers were $10.07 an hour in 2009, according to a U.S.D.A. survey of farm employers. If pressure to verify employees’ legal status resulted in a labor crisis similar to the one in 1966 and a similar 40 percent wage increase, average hourly earnings would rise to $14.10. If this were passed on to consumers, the 10 cent farm labor cost of a pound of apples would rise to 14 cents, and the $1 retail price would rise to $1.04.

    For a typical household, a 40 percent increase in farm labor costs translates into a 3.6 percent increase in retail prices. If farm wages rose 40 percent, and this wage increase were passed on to consumers, average spending on fresh fruits and vegetables would rise about $15 a year, the cost of two movie tickets. However, for a typical seasonal farm worker, a 40 percent wage increase could raise earnings from $10,000 for 1,000 hours of work to $14,000 — lifting the wage above the federal poverty line.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @istevefan

    I don't think he is being honest here. Everyone has an agenda and plays with the numbers to suit his agenda.

    If I am a farmer (and market conditions permit) and my labor costs go up by 20%, I am going to try to increase my selling price by 20% and not just pass thru the extra cost. And if the price that the farmer gets (say 50 cent/lb) goes up 20% then the wholesale price that the retailer pays (say $1.00) goes up to $1.20 and then the retail price (say $2.00) becomes $2.40. So the idea that if you give the farm workers a 40% wage increase the retail price is only going to go up 4 cents/lb. is almost certainly a lie. That's just not how labor economics works and Martin probably knows better. When apples go up 40 cent/lb instead of 4 cents - oops, I lied.

    Replies: @istevefan, @William Badwhite, @Redneck farmer

    , @Hypnotoad666
    @istevefan


    If this were passed on to consumers, the 10 cent farm labor cost of a pound of apples would rise to 14 cents, and the $1 retail price would rise to $1.04.
     
    The Op-Ed's analysis is a simple example of question begging/circular reasoning. It just assumes that which it purports to prove -- i.e., that labor costs will be passed on pro rata to each piece of fruit sold and that all other variables will remain constant.* Once this conclusion is assumed the rest is just arithmetic.

    But as the economist author presumably knows, his a priori assumption is just plain wrong. Indeed, to assume that all variables will remain static and that 100% of a particular production cost increase will go straight to the consumer price is ridiculous on its face.

    The actual effect of an increase in one production cost factor on consumer prices would depend on what economists call the "elasticity" of the supply and demand functions for that product. In plain English, those terms refer, respectively, to how many fewer units will be produced with each one cent increase in marginal cost, and how many fewer units will be purchased for each one cent increase in price.

    The elasticity of the supply and demand functions, in turn, are dependent on factors such as: consumer preferences (e.g. how many fewer salads would you eat if a head of lettuce cost 10 cents more); availability of labor substitutes (e.g., automation); the availability of alternate supply sources (e.g., imports), etc.

    In any event, the key economic input for agriculture is the land itself. This is a large sunk cost which cannot easily be used for any other purpose. As a result, pretty much 100% of any reduction or increase in the profitability of farm operations will end up being absorbed by a change in the asset value of the land itself.

    Thus, the most likely economic effect of increasing farm labor wages would be that: (a) farm workers would make more money; (b) production would stay approximately the same; (c) consumer prices would stay approximately the same; but (d) the value of farmland would decline by about the same percentages as the reduction in operational profits.


    *BTW, as a rule, journalists, pundits and lawyers usually misrepresent by manipulating the definitions of the word being used. Economists, on the other hand, tend to mislead by using unwarranted assumptions as the starting point for their analysis. Hence the old joke that an economist will solve a problem by "assuming a can opener." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assume_a_can_opener

    Replies: @Jack D, @istevefan

  165. @RadicalCenter
    @Jack D

    It appears that so-called lower-skilled jobs in the USA will continue to be eliminated through automation: touchscreens / scanners / online ordering in supermarkets and restaurants, self-driving trucks at least for highway long-hauls, drones for some deliveries, and eventually robots for much agricultural, construction, and product manufacturing and assembly work.

    Within ten years, which professions will have open jobs for these guest workers to fill?

    We are importing a future of division, widespread chronic poverty, and thus violence. "Guest workers" under these circumstances would be disastrous, not matter what race or culture they come from, and widely divergent culture/religion/language just makes it worse.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Not true if they are TRULY guest workers – the whole idea is that if and when you don’t need the “guests” anymore you send them home and that’s that.

    But the reality is that “guest” workers tend to stay permanently – at least a certain (high) % of them, no matter what the rules of the program are initially. And when they stay they bring in their spouses and children (and have more children who are birthright US citizens) and their parents and their sisters and their cousins and their aunts so that 1 immigrant might lead to a chain of dozens more. Having a REAL guest worker program would be better than the chaos we have now where people just walk across the border but we don’t have the civilizational confidence to have a real, effectively enforced guest worker program and if we did, it would only be over and above all the illegal aliens would would continue to sneak in.

  166. @Anonymous
    @Buzz Mohawk

    You don't think it's relevant that most of the trash is from other European countries? Most discussion of this topic, especially in the US, doesn't break down stats of immigration to European countries by nationality, and tries to imply that the aggregate represents Islamic immigration. This seems to be deliberate, done for neocon reasons and to distract from America's demographics.

    It's also relevant in that European countries already try to attract eastern European labor.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    It’s a matter of whether or not Europeans, as a people, want to have a united continent, like America, or not.

    Part of our strength, so far, as America, is that we share one continent, from “sea to shining sea,” as one people with one language and one government. Now, the Europeans have problems, not the least of which is language. (Never underestimate the role of language in holding a people together.) Of course, now my America is being flushed down into a sewer of multi-culti-vibranti.

    The white “trash” from other parts of Europe would include my brother-in-law, who regularly drives a truck from Romania to Germany, Denmark and The Netherlands. He does not rape women or kidnap them for sex slavery. He does not knife people on the street. He does not live on welfare. He and his Eastern European friends do not form their own Sharia law systems in the middle of other people’s countries.

    There is no comparison. Your point is completely bogus. As for the Europeans, let them work this out among themselves — without invaders making their challenge harder than it already is.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Buzz Mohawk

    "Trash" was your word. You compared the immigrants, European and non-European, to trash, specifically to plain trash and trash that stinks, respectively. In that case, obviously the percentages of plain and stinky trash is very relevant.

  167. @istevefan
    @Jack D

    Here is an NY Times op-ed from 2011 about the economics of agricultural field workers, by Philip Martin a labor economist at UC Davis.


    Consumers who pay $1 for a pound of apples are giving 30 cents to the farmer and 10 cents to the farm worker; those spending $2 for a head of lettuce are giving 50 cents to the farmer and 16 cents to the farm worker.

    If the influx of immigrant workers were slowed or stopped and farm wages rose, what would happen to expenditures on fresh fruits and vegetables? A case study from 1966 could give us some idea.

    That year, the United Farm Workers union won a 40 percent wage increase for some table grape harvesters, largely because the end of the Bracero program had cut off a supply of Mexican workers. The average earnings of U.S. field workers were $10.07 an hour in 2009, according to a U.S.D.A. survey of farm employers. If pressure to verify employees’ legal status resulted in a labor crisis similar to the one in 1966 and a similar 40 percent wage increase, average hourly earnings would rise to $14.10. If this were passed on to consumers, the 10 cent farm labor cost of a pound of apples would rise to 14 cents, and the $1 retail price would rise to $1.04.

    For a typical household, a 40 percent increase in farm labor costs translates into a 3.6 percent increase in retail prices. If farm wages rose 40 percent, and this wage increase were passed on to consumers, average spending on fresh fruits and vegetables would rise about $15 a year, the cost of two movie tickets. However, for a typical seasonal farm worker, a 40 percent wage increase could raise earnings from $10,000 for 1,000 hours of work to $14,000 — lifting the wage above the federal poverty line.
     

    Replies: @Jack D, @Hypnotoad666

    I don’t think he is being honest here. Everyone has an agenda and plays with the numbers to suit his agenda.

    If I am a farmer (and market conditions permit) and my labor costs go up by 20%, I am going to try to increase my selling price by 20% and not just pass thru the extra cost. And if the price that the farmer gets (say 50 cent/lb) goes up 20% then the wholesale price that the retailer pays (say $1.00) goes up to $1.20 and then the retail price (say $2.00) becomes $2.40. So the idea that if you give the farm workers a 40% wage increase the retail price is only going to go up 4 cents/lb. is almost certainly a lie. That’s just not how labor economics works and Martin probably knows better. When apples go up 40 cent/lb instead of 4 cents – oops, I lied.

    • Replies: @istevefan
    @Jack D


    If I am a farmer (and market conditions permit) and my labor costs go up by 20%, I am going to try to increase my selling price by 20% and not just pass thru the extra cost.
     
    And that is an IF. In a competitive commodity market, serviced by a large number of domestic and international suppliers, you might not be able to do what you just described. In other less competitive markets you probably could.

    Whatever the correct math is on the final price the consumer pays, I think this guy's analysis of labor being a small portion is correct.
    , @William Badwhite
    @Jack D

    If you are a farmer, labor costs are only piece of your overall costs. You need fuel for your vehicles, you have to eventually replace those vehicles (depreciation), depending on what you're growing you may need seed, you need pesticides and herbicides, maybe you lease your land, you need to pay taxes, etc.

    Then whatever it is you're growing needs to be trucked from your farm to wherever the buyer stores it, then stuck on a train or truck to wherever its going, then trucked to a store where somebody has to put it on shelves.

    Whatever a farmer pays his stoop labor to pick avocados is only a small portion of the overall cost to consumers. UC-Davis is in agriculture ground zero - without a more detailed counter to Martin, I'm inclined to believe he knows what he's doing and that his analysis is at least directionally accurate.

    Also I assume you know that (you being a farmer who grows a commodity) it doesn't matter what you try to do with your selling price, the buyer is going to pay you the same thing he pays for every other avocado because your avocado is the same as every other farmer's avocado.


    Everyone has an agenda and plays with the numbers to suit his agenda.
     
    Projection? Or just cynicism?
    , @Redneck farmer
    @Jack D

    A bigger problem, Jack, is buyers wouldn't care that your costs went up. They'd just say, "We can't pay any more for your produce, take it or leave it."

    Replies: @Anonymous

  168. @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    This was not one of your better comments, Jack, and you do write a lot of good ones. This may be near the bottom, due to some real misunderstanding of economics. Of course owners of companies want as cheap labor as they can get. Supply tends to balance with demand in the long run. Our crony-capitalist class uses the power of the government to increase the supply via immigration. You get that part.

    However, there are externalities that are involved in supporting people that make $10/hr roofing, building, and picking crops. That's because we have the welfare state. All of the external costs that would require a guy to demand $20/hr for the work, due to no free WIC program, child-care, free money based on fake kids via tax credits (formerly exemptions) and the Earned-Income credit, and so on, would have to be paid by the worker. Sure, you could increase supply in a non-welfare state*, but people would quit coming here for the work at these low wages. There would be MORE of a free market in labor.

    Now, one could say, how's an employer going to make profits if labor costs are high? You'd be surprised how much of the cost of consumer goods and commodities are NOT from the labor, Jack. In Holy Moley, we're out of Guacamole!, Peak Stupidity, just looking at a 50-year old paper on time/motion studies of avocado picking, came up with just one thin DIME of additional costs to producers with a $10/hr increase (a very simple calculation, just based on pieces of fruit per hour, and that was back before some modern improvements) Yeah, I know that's a decent amount for the growers, but it's not that much of the final product at the store.

    It comes down to this: Without open borders, wages would be decent enough, just based on free-market economics and the invisible hand of supply/demand and pricing, to allow manual laborers to live a whole lot better. The big-money guys would have lost some profits.

    The point is, would someone get off his ass, and get off welfare to take a job at $20/hr versus $8.50? Most men would definitely do so, Jack. Now, your next point would be, quite reasonably, "but then, agricultural products and manufactured products would just be made overseas, and the American companies would go out of business" Yes, shipping of goods in containers is amazingly cheap now**. I think that, yes, companies here would be bound to lose out to overseas companies with cheaper labor, without tariffs. Without tariffs, with countries in various stages of development, owners can keep going for the cheaper and cheaper labor (lately, from China to Vietnam and Bangladesh).


    And higher wages often set off an inflationary spiral ....
     
    I believed that as a kid in the late-1970's high inflation. I'm not a kid anymore. I understand the concept of supply/demand with currency too. Inflation of prices is a function of an big increase in the money supply, unless the fiat money is backed by REAL MONEY, which causes a limit (money seems worth less? Convert it back to gold, per what the "note" says on the back. This doesn't work anymore, not since 1971 and Dickhead Nixon.)


    .



    * "You can have open borders or a welfare state, but not both" - Milton Freedman

    ** A couple, three grand $ to ship a 40 foot container, which can hold over 50,000 lb, across the ocean, China to Europe even!

    Replies: @Jack D, @istevefan, @Beckow

    …Without open borders, wages would be decent enough, just based on free-market economics and the invisible hand of supply/demand

    That’s the key. Post WWII for two generations borders were either closed or only partially opened – it led to the best labor market and growing prosperity. The business people and their hired academic economists were unhappy – the middle classes were uppity, the ability to accumulate $10 billion limited. So they changed the game.

    Starting in the 70’s and 80’s they worked on increasing labor supply with open borders, trade deals, and adding most women to the workforce. The policy could be summarised as: flood the labor markets with as much supply as possible. The transition is almost over and we see the results: most Western societies have lost the ability for working people to form and sustain families, inequality has increased dramatically, there is debt everywhere, and cultures are collapsing under the global migration pressures.

    The global cheap labor nirvana won’t last, but the coming economic cataclysm is going to make things even worse. The academicians will probably blame racism and misogyny – they have already started, it is a sign of desperation. Notice that unlike a few years back nobody seriosly claims that the open borders globalism is a win-win for everybody. Now they say that it is inevitable, just learn how to live with it.

    • Agree: AceDeuce
    • Replies: @istevefan
    @Beckow


    Post WWII for two generations borders were either closed or only partially opened
     
    This probably had something to do with a couple things. First, you had the ongoing Cold War that was coldest in decades immediately after the conflict.

    Second, you had the fresh memory of WW2 in which it was seen that ethnic diversity could lead to war. Thus, many German ethnics who had lived in the east for hundreds of years were ethnically cleansed after the war. I think people then saw the importance of keeping groups somewhat separate to preserve the peace. This of course entailed not letting immigration upset the ethnic mix.
    , @Anonymous
    @Beckow

    One of the worst ironies is that the British Labour Party - a political party formed by and for the British working class to represent the British working class - became under the Blair/Economist regime the world's biggest importer of dirt cheap hard scrabble labor, in order to fatten the pockets of capitalist bosses.

  169. Whiskey says: • Website

    I wanted to emigrate to New Zealand in the late 1990s. Didn’t qualify on points despite two grad degrees.

    Mohammed Mohammed Mohammed with a 70 iq, no skills, no English proficiency and no money qualifies.

    Western nations want the most violent and low iq men possible. So as noted above Western women can have them as their violent boyfriends of their dreams.

    Doing jobs Western men won’t do.

  170. istevefan says:
    @Jack D
    @istevefan

    I don't think he is being honest here. Everyone has an agenda and plays with the numbers to suit his agenda.

    If I am a farmer (and market conditions permit) and my labor costs go up by 20%, I am going to try to increase my selling price by 20% and not just pass thru the extra cost. And if the price that the farmer gets (say 50 cent/lb) goes up 20% then the wholesale price that the retailer pays (say $1.00) goes up to $1.20 and then the retail price (say $2.00) becomes $2.40. So the idea that if you give the farm workers a 40% wage increase the retail price is only going to go up 4 cents/lb. is almost certainly a lie. That's just not how labor economics works and Martin probably knows better. When apples go up 40 cent/lb instead of 4 cents - oops, I lied.

    Replies: @istevefan, @William Badwhite, @Redneck farmer

    If I am a farmer (and market conditions permit) and my labor costs go up by 20%, I am going to try to increase my selling price by 20% and not just pass thru the extra cost.

    And that is an IF. In a competitive commodity market, serviced by a large number of domestic and international suppliers, you might not be able to do what you just described. In other less competitive markets you probably could.

    Whatever the correct math is on the final price the consumer pays, I think this guy’s analysis of labor being a small portion is correct.

  171. @Simon in London
    Christian Syrians from the coastal & Lebanon-adjacent mountains seem fairly bright, but I'd guess most of the 'refugees' are Sunni from the inner deserts. Probably looking at median IQs around 90 or a bit lower, given Turkish median IQ is around 90. So not a lot of highly skilled workers, though not the worst. Non-Syrian fake refugees will likely average lower.

    Replies: @GermanReader2, @Anonymous, @International Jew, @Dieter Kief

    If only your IQ assumptions were correct – and one last if, if you please: If only IQ would make people work. Most of those Syrians don’t work in Germany. And not only (by a far stretch) because they lack IQ – they lack qualifications, they lack their family ties, they lack the mentality, which makes people work in a cold climate. Many of them lack the bodily strength too, which is required – especially for low-qualification jobs. And none of them speaks Geman – none of all of those below IQ 85, at least (and my guess would be: That could quite easily be the majority of them).

    The whole Merkel-affair is a complete mess of blue-eyedness on the side of almost all in the actual German government. A pretty wild mess, which will outlast me, that’s for sure.

    • Replies: @istevefan
    @Dieter Kief


    The whole Merkel-affair is a complete mess of blue-eyedness on the side of almost all in the actual German government.
     
    What are the chances that modern day Germans might reevaluate how and why their grandparents supported the Nazis given the behavior of Merkel and the current crop of German leaders?

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Jack D
    @Dieter Kief

    Syrians are losers on both counts - not only are most of them low IQ but they come from a low trust culture. So if their choice is to live on the dole (maybe with some off the books side gigs, legal or illegal) or else to work hard and earn an "honest living" while making about the same income or maybe even less, they will choose the former every time - according to their system of ethics, "cheating" the government or indeed anyone outside of their family is not wrong at all. If the government is stupid enough to pay you for sitting around while you smoke and harass the frauleins, that's on them. They might figure it out eventually but might as well ride that train for as long as you can. Being smarter in a low trust culture only means that you device more elaborate cheating schemes.

    , @Anonymous
    @Dieter Kief

    This is my opinion, and my opinion only:

    The *real* 'low IQ people' or those who let the rabble in, whether they were genuinely convinced that the rabble would 'boost' the German economy, or they were lying through their teeth. In this respect, the title 'The Economist' must, inevitably, be cited.

    By contrast the 'high IQ' people are the rabble who conned and tricked their way in to lavish wealth, housing, health and welfare entitlements - transferrable to extended family back home - all provided gratis, by gullible fools, at absolutely zero cost to the rabble.

    An awful lot of guff has been written and spoken about IQ tests, Raven's Matrices, international comparisons etc etc, but surely, this is the only IQ test that matters.

    Replies: @bomag

  172. @Jack D
    @Hypnotoad666

    I'd say it's less like a legal brief and more like the old Pravda. When you are writing within the constraints of an ideological agenda you have to do a lot of "the glass is half full" type of cheerleading and omission (especially if the glass is really only 5% full) and the practiced reader learns how to do a lot of reading between the lines to glean that "half full" really means 5% full and what is going on with the other 95%. Sometimes, I get the feeling (again just like the old Pravda) that the writers are trying to sneak the truth past the censors so if you read carefully enough you can actually learn something. E.g saying that 11% of refugees have successfully completed a training program is the same thing as saying that 89% of them are on welfare, just with the ideologically correct "spin".

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    I’d say it’s less like a legal brief and more like the old Pravda.

    Maybe that is a better comparison as at this point, the main purpose of the NYT and WaPo is apparently to inform good-thinking liberals of the Party Line they are supposed to espouse on any given topic.

    It’s true that ignoring the spin and reading between the lines can yield some useful information. Like the way this article indirectly admits (through a haze of obfuscation) that the vast majority of refugees are actually unemployable welfare sponges.

    I wonder how many people have the ability to read these Pravda articles like a 1980’s Kremlinolgist, though. On the other hand, I feel like I have noticed a trend of more informed and intelligent readers calling BS in the comment sections, at least at the NYT.

  173. @Dtbb
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Reminds me of this.
    https://youtu.be/sP_l5aPww-4

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Hahahaaaa! Thanks, Dtbb.

  174. istevefan says:
    @Dieter Kief
    @Simon in London

    If only your IQ assumptions were correct - and one last if, if you please: If only IQ would make people work. Most of those Syrians don't work in Germany. And not only (by a far stretch) because they lack IQ - they lack qualifications, they lack their family ties, they lack the mentality, which makes people work in a cold climate. Many of them lack the bodily strength too, which is required - especially for low-qualification jobs. And none of them speaks Geman - none of all of those below IQ 85, at least (and my guess would be: That could quite easily be the majority of them).

    The whole Merkel-affair is a complete mess of blue-eyedness on the side of almost all in the actual German government. A pretty wild mess, which will outlast me, that's for sure.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Jack D, @Anonymous

    The whole Merkel-affair is a complete mess of blue-eyedness on the side of almost all in the actual German government.

    What are the chances that modern day Germans might reevaluate how and why their grandparents supported the Nazis given the behavior of Merkel and the current crop of German leaders?

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @istevefan

    Really very doubtful. Working class people from depressed parts of former E. Germany are maybe less easily brainwashed by PC but the average German urban yuppie goodwhite is every bit as goodwhite as the average NY or SF goodwhite and as about likely to re-evaluate their views concerning Nazism - i.e. not bloody likely.

    And keep in mind that the average "German" is nowadays less and less likely to actually be of German ancestry.

  175. @Dieter Kief
    @Simon in London

    If only your IQ assumptions were correct - and one last if, if you please: If only IQ would make people work. Most of those Syrians don't work in Germany. And not only (by a far stretch) because they lack IQ - they lack qualifications, they lack their family ties, they lack the mentality, which makes people work in a cold climate. Many of them lack the bodily strength too, which is required - especially for low-qualification jobs. And none of them speaks Geman - none of all of those below IQ 85, at least (and my guess would be: That could quite easily be the majority of them).

    The whole Merkel-affair is a complete mess of blue-eyedness on the side of almost all in the actual German government. A pretty wild mess, which will outlast me, that's for sure.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Jack D, @Anonymous

    Syrians are losers on both counts – not only are most of them low IQ but they come from a low trust culture. So if their choice is to live on the dole (maybe with some off the books side gigs, legal or illegal) or else to work hard and earn an “honest living” while making about the same income or maybe even less, they will choose the former every time – according to their system of ethics, “cheating” the government or indeed anyone outside of their family is not wrong at all. If the government is stupid enough to pay you for sitting around while you smoke and harass the frauleins, that’s on them. They might figure it out eventually but might as well ride that train for as long as you can. Being smarter in a low trust culture only means that you device more elaborate cheating schemes.

    • Agree: Dieter Kief
  176. @Anon
    @theo the kraut

    What percent of the youth in Berlin are Muslim?

    Replies: @theo the kraut

    As 75% of all Berlin third graders are functionally illiterate and 75% of adult Berlin Turks didn’t finish school that should be around 75%, but else I don’t know of exact numbers.

    Official stats from 2011, children under 6 with migrant background:

    https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/Bevoelkerung/MigrationIntegration/BevoelkerungMigrationsstatus5125203117004.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

    Bevölkerung unter 6 Jahren nach Migrationsstatus regional
    Ergebnisse des Mikrozensus 2011

    German states:

    Baden-Württemberg: 43,22%
    Bayern: 34,23%
    Berlin: 43,82%
    Bremen: 57,58%
    Hamburg: 48,94%
    Hessen: 46,28%
    Niedersachsen: 31,32%
    Nordrhein-Westfalen: 42,99%
    Rheinland-Pfalz: 34,72%
    Saarland: 32,50%
    The five new states of the former GDR: 9,66%

    Total: 38,66%

    Some major cities:

    Augsburg: 61,54%
    Dortmund: 53,33%
    Duisburg: 57,14%
    Düsseldorf: 50,00%
    Essen: 50,00%
    Frankfurt am Main: 75,61% (!)
    Hannover: 46,67%
    Köln: 50,98%
    München: 58,44%
    Nürnberg: 51,85%
    Stuttgart: 56,67%

    • Replies: @Dtbb
    @theo the kraut

    Here are the stats from my former elementary school. I found some old class photos recently. My classes were 90% white. I think we are pissing into the wind around here. We are thoroughly doomed!
    https://www.greatschools.org/florida/clearwater/2437-Belleair-Elementary-School/

    , @Anon
    @theo the kraut

    Thanks.

  177. @istevefan
    @Dieter Kief


    The whole Merkel-affair is a complete mess of blue-eyedness on the side of almost all in the actual German government.
     
    What are the chances that modern day Germans might reevaluate how and why their grandparents supported the Nazis given the behavior of Merkel and the current crop of German leaders?

    Replies: @Jack D

    Really very doubtful. Working class people from depressed parts of former E. Germany are maybe less easily brainwashed by PC but the average German urban yuppie goodwhite is every bit as goodwhite as the average NY or SF goodwhite and as about likely to re-evaluate their views concerning Nazism – i.e. not bloody likely.

    And keep in mind that the average “German” is nowadays less and less likely to actually be of German ancestry.

  178. Anonymous[407] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I remember my High School days, many many moons ago.

    We were forced to learn two foreign languages to examination level, French, which was compulsory or a choice of German or Spanish.

    Though tough to begin with, I picked up German better than I did French, the vagaries of French spelling, accents (on letters), etc I found tricky. Once you got over the cases - a novel concept to English speakers - German had a sort of methodical logic behind it.

    My language teacher, who taught both languages was the first to make the point to me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Desiderius

    Native English speakers fail to appreciate how illogical and difficult to learn English spelling is.

  179. @theo the kraut
    @Anon

    As 75% of all Berlin third graders are functionally illiterate and 75% of adult Berlin Turks didn't finish school that should be around 75%, but else I don't know of exact numbers.

    Official stats from 2011, children under 6 with migrant background:

    https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/Bevoelkerung/MigrationIntegration/BevoelkerungMigrationsstatus5125203117004.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

    Bevölkerung unter 6 Jahren nach Migrationsstatus regional
    Ergebnisse des Mikrozensus 2011

    German states:

    Baden-Württemberg: 43,22%
    Bayern: 34,23%
    Berlin: 43,82%
    Bremen: 57,58%
    Hamburg: 48,94%
    Hessen: 46,28%
    Niedersachsen: 31,32%
    Nordrhein-Westfalen: 42,99%
    Rheinland-Pfalz: 34,72%
    Saarland: 32,50%
    The five new states of the former GDR: 9,66%

    Total: 38,66%

    Some major cities:

    Augsburg: 61,54%
    Dortmund: 53,33%
    Duisburg: 57,14%
    Düsseldorf: 50,00%
    Essen: 50,00%
    Frankfurt am Main: 75,61% (!)
    Hannover: 46,67%
    Köln: 50,98%
    München: 58,44%
    Nürnberg: 51,85%
    Stuttgart: 56,67%

    Replies: @Dtbb, @Anon

    Here are the stats from my former elementary school. I found some old class photos recently. My classes were 90% white. I think we are pissing into the wind around here. We are thoroughly doomed!
    https://www.greatschools.org/florida/clearwater/2437-Belleair-Elementary-School/

  180. @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    Right, Econ 101 - the simplified introductory course where what they teach you doesn't match the real world. Let's say tomorrow all the employers in America decided that they needed twice as many plumbers and doubled the wage for licensed plumbers. The supply of plumbers is fixed in the short run - raising their wage doesn't magically increase the # of plumbers available overnight. People around here poo poo the idea of "labor shortage" and assume it is just employers being cheap but in the short run it is a real thing. If you offer higher wages for some skilled occupation you might be able to lure employees away from another employer but that is just moving the shortage around.

    And employers seeking cheap(er) labor is a natural thing and not evil in itself - the entire history of American capitalism involved employers seeking cheap (and plentiful) imported labor to build the railroads, dig coal, etc. Looking for cheap labor is what capitalists do. It may be the duty of the society to restrain them in some way (e.g. prohibit slavery) but it's natural that employers would rather be able to fill positions (with immigrants if necessary) at current wages rather than fill their ranks by offering higher wages and squeeze their profit margins. And higher wages often set off an inflationary spiral - you raise wages and you raise prices. Everyone raises prices and the workers' new higher paychecks aren't worth any more than their old paychecks.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @istevefan, @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @Achmed E. Newman, @Reg Cæsar

    People around here poo poo the idea of “labor shortage” and assume it is just employers being cheap but in the short run it is a real thing.

    A “real thing” that demands subsidy from the taxpayers? How many immigrants even meet the annual income tax threshold?

    But at least you admit it’s all “short run” thinking!

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    I didn't say it was a good idea, just that the idea that employers are just "lying" and could find an unlimited amount of American born workers if they really wanted to, is not true either. And it's not just a question of price (although price is a big consideration). For certain jobs it's doubtful you could find enough qualified American born labor at virtually any price. But just because a "labor shortage" exists doesn't mean that it is the government's obligation to let in more immigrants. A labor shortage maybe hurts industry but it helps labor and other things.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @nebulafox, @Oleaginous Outrager

  181. @Desiderius
    OT:

    (Stoller is a lefty, and a good one)

    https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1125566192993939458

    Replies: @ic1000, @Kevin O'Keeffe

    I got the impression during the last election, that this Hawley fellow was destined for political stardom. Maybe even a future Presidency. I will watch this with interest when I get home.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Kevin O'Keeffe

    Is Hawley the senator any relation to Hawley the political scientist?

  182. Anonymous [AKA "Old Palo Atan"] says:
    @Anon
    They’re also helping the economy of Portland, Maine, which is taking in Sub-Saharan Africans coming over the southern border.

    https://www.pressherald.com/2019/05/06/more-asylum-seekers-arrive-in-portland-from-southern-border-as-city-debates-assistance/

    More asylum seekers arrive in Portland from southern border as city debates assistance

    Portland's human resources director criticizes comments by Mayor Ethan Strimling welcoming the arrival of more immigrants.

    ...Last year, Portland officials warned that its family shelter was reaching a crisis level, in part because of an influx of families from African countries such as Angola and the Democratic Republic of Congo who have applied for asylum and are prohibited from working. The city shelter can hold about 146 people. Another 35 floor mats can be set up at the shelter and an additional 80 floor mats can be set up at the Salvation Army gym to accommodate overflow.

    The Maine Sunday Telegram reported on the increasing numbers of sub-Saharan African families making the long and dangerous journey through Central America to the southern border. At the time, Long told the paper that many families staying at the Texas shelter were asking to come to Portland because of the support the city provides and because of the immigrant community that has taken root here...

    ...While critics often point to the cost of immigration and the burden on social services when people arrive without incomes or resources, a report commissioned by Portland’s Office of Economic Opportunity and the Portland Regional Chamber of Commerce came to a different conclusion about the long-term impacts.

    That report said immigrants contributed $1.2 billion to the Greater Portland metro region’s gross domestic product, paid $133 million in federal taxes and $62 million in state taxes; contributed $57.3 million to Social Security and $14.7 million to Medicare; and helped create or preserve over 1,100 local manufacturing jobs...

    Comments are disabled on some stories about sensitive topics.

    https://multifiles.pressherald.com/uploads/sites/10/2019/04/1736654_375482-20181205_AsylumOve3-1024x683-1024x683.jpg

     

    Replies: @Old Prude, @Anonymous

    How cute. Isn’t that the Duchess of Sussex and her new kid?

  183. Nicht zum Thema: a rare baseball feat, first since 1905. On offense and defense.

    Pablo Sandoval accomplishes extremely rare feat in Giants loss to Reds

    This reminds me of Jack Quinn, the George Blanda of baseball. His records for the oldest pitcher to win a game and the oldest player to hit a home run, set in the early ’30s, lasted until this century. He still owns the record for the oldest to start, and to complete, a World Series game.

    Quinn is in a Polish-American hall of fame, but he was born in what is now Slovakia, as was Blanda’s father.

  184. @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    People around here poo poo the idea of “labor shortage” and assume it is just employers being cheap but in the short run it is a real thing.
     
    A "real thing" that demands subsidy from the taxpayers? How many immigrants even meet the annual income tax threshold?

    But at least you admit it's all "short run" thinking!

    Replies: @Jack D

    I didn’t say it was a good idea, just that the idea that employers are just “lying” and could find an unlimited amount of American born workers if they really wanted to, is not true either. And it’s not just a question of price (although price is a big consideration). For certain jobs it’s doubtful you could find enough qualified American born labor at virtually any price. But just because a “labor shortage” exists doesn’t mean that it is the government’s obligation to let in more immigrants. A labor shortage maybe hurts industry but it helps labor and other things.

    • Replies: @istevefan
    @Jack D


    ...just that the idea that employers are just “lying” and could find an unlimited amount of American born workers if they really wanted to, is not true either.
     
    No one is saying there is an unlimited supply. That is why there is a market. The market is a means to allocate scarce resources, not unlimited resources.

    Employers have choices. If the current enterprise you are engaged in is unsustainable in this country, then move your operations to another country where you are able to operate, or put your capital into another enterprise that will provide you with better returns in this market. If raising your wages makes you not viable as a company, then the market is telling you something.

    I owned a small business. I was forced to do just this thing when market conditions changed, and small businesses in my field could no longer compete against larger entities. Whereas early on small businesses in my field were running circles around the bigger guys who could not pull their heads out of the arses, eventually they caught on and with near monopoly power were able to drive us away. So I, like many others, had to take my capital and put it to other pursuits. Uncle Sam gave me no guarantee that I could continue in my chosen line.

    So these businesses that complain should have to do the same. We live in a gigantic, continental nation with over 325 million consumers with almost $20 trillion of GDP. If you can't find a way to invest your capital into some money making enterprise without utilizing the government as your own personal Kelly Services temp agency, then you deserve to fail.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D


    I didn’t say it was a good idea, just that the idea that employers are just “lying” and could find an unlimited amount of American born workers if they really wanted to, is not true either.
     
    The market can be tight for a season or two, and needs time to adjust. Of course. But we're talking well over 40 years now.

    You'd think by now employers would have figured out which jobs Americans will do a what price.
    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    This is basic invisible-hand free-market stuff, Jack. It doesn't take a big book. Listen, if there is a shortage of machinists, because nobody figures it's worth it to gain the skills and expertise for $15/hr, then the pay will have to go up. At $30/hr., it becomes worth it for a guy to take a year-long class on using the mills, lathes, and such. As he works for a year or two, he becomes worth even more, as experience in set-up means a whole lot, and the guy can be twice as productive. Supply goes up to meet demand.

    If these machine shops are guaranteed cheap labor from immigrants whose upkeep is paid for by other taxpayers, which is the case, they'll still get a bunch of crappy machinists. You'd think a smart boss would hire the more expensive but better machinists. However, when government gets involved in all aspects of the matter, than the invisible hand gets nailed to the freakin' ground. Everything free market a government touches turns to shit - that's pretty much the gist of it, come to think of it.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    , @nebulafox
    @Jack D

    Employers in the US aren't lying so much as they are just spoiled rotten. They expect market fluctuations to apply to the other side, but not to them.

    Shortened labor supply? In a saner nation, the answer to that would be tough luck, you've either got to pay higher wages now or decrease your standards on hiring some. Just as during times of plenty of labor, you get to be the one who is picky. But our government prioritizes giving them structurally depressed wages (not to mention hiking up the housing market through rentier policies) through corporate welfare and endless immigration over basic societal health, so...

    , @Oleaginous Outrager
    @Jack D


    just that the idea that employers are just “lying” and could find an unlimited amount of American born workers if they really wanted to, is not true either
     
    When it comes to IT and the H1B hordes, there's an absolute, nailed-on, ironclad guarantee that it's a lie.
  185. @Don't Look at Me
    Wow! I'm amazed!

    Totally worth all the rapes.

    Replies: @Jonathan Silber

    Totally worth all the rapes.

    Well worth it if even one deadbeat Syrian is able to brush up on his foreign languages.

  186. @theo the kraut
    @Anon

    As 75% of all Berlin third graders are functionally illiterate and 75% of adult Berlin Turks didn't finish school that should be around 75%, but else I don't know of exact numbers.

    Official stats from 2011, children under 6 with migrant background:

    https://www.destatis.de/DE/Publikationen/Thematisch/Bevoelkerung/MigrationIntegration/BevoelkerungMigrationsstatus5125203117004.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

    Bevölkerung unter 6 Jahren nach Migrationsstatus regional
    Ergebnisse des Mikrozensus 2011

    German states:

    Baden-Württemberg: 43,22%
    Bayern: 34,23%
    Berlin: 43,82%
    Bremen: 57,58%
    Hamburg: 48,94%
    Hessen: 46,28%
    Niedersachsen: 31,32%
    Nordrhein-Westfalen: 42,99%
    Rheinland-Pfalz: 34,72%
    Saarland: 32,50%
    The five new states of the former GDR: 9,66%

    Total: 38,66%

    Some major cities:

    Augsburg: 61,54%
    Dortmund: 53,33%
    Duisburg: 57,14%
    Düsseldorf: 50,00%
    Essen: 50,00%
    Frankfurt am Main: 75,61% (!)
    Hannover: 46,67%
    Köln: 50,98%
    München: 58,44%
    Nürnberg: 51,85%
    Stuttgart: 56,67%

    Replies: @Dtbb, @Anon

    Thanks.

  187. @Anonymous
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I remember my High School days, many many moons ago.

    We were forced to learn two foreign languages to examination level, French, which was compulsory or a choice of German or Spanish.

    Though tough to begin with, I picked up German better than I did French, the vagaries of French spelling, accents (on letters), etc I found tricky. Once you got over the cases - a novel concept to English speakers - German had a sort of methodical logic behind it.

    My language teacher, who taught both languages was the first to make the point to me.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Desiderius

    German and English share a relatively recent parent.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Desiderius

    Having a common parent (not that English and German really do - English is much more Latinized and Frenchified than German) is not definitive. It's easier for an English speaker to learn Spanish just because it has a simpler grammatical structure than German. Portuguese and Spanish have a common parent but it's easier for a Portuguese to learn Spanish than vice versa. There are other languages (Dutch) that are even closer to English and thus easier to learn. The bottom line is that German (coming from English) is at the 2nd level of difficulty (but coming from Arabic it is at the highest level of difficulty).

    Replies: @Joe Schmoe

  188. istevefan says:
    @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    I didn't say it was a good idea, just that the idea that employers are just "lying" and could find an unlimited amount of American born workers if they really wanted to, is not true either. And it's not just a question of price (although price is a big consideration). For certain jobs it's doubtful you could find enough qualified American born labor at virtually any price. But just because a "labor shortage" exists doesn't mean that it is the government's obligation to let in more immigrants. A labor shortage maybe hurts industry but it helps labor and other things.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @nebulafox, @Oleaginous Outrager

    …just that the idea that employers are just “lying” and could find an unlimited amount of American born workers if they really wanted to, is not true either.

    No one is saying there is an unlimited supply. That is why there is a market. The market is a means to allocate scarce resources, not unlimited resources.

    Employers have choices. If the current enterprise you are engaged in is unsustainable in this country, then move your operations to another country where you are able to operate, or put your capital into another enterprise that will provide you with better returns in this market. If raising your wages makes you not viable as a company, then the market is telling you something.

    I owned a small business. I was forced to do just this thing when market conditions changed, and small businesses in my field could no longer compete against larger entities. Whereas early on small businesses in my field were running circles around the bigger guys who could not pull their heads out of the arses, eventually they caught on and with near monopoly power were able to drive us away. So I, like many others, had to take my capital and put it to other pursuits. Uncle Sam gave me no guarantee that I could continue in my chosen line.

    So these businesses that complain should have to do the same. We live in a gigantic, continental nation with over 325 million consumers with almost $20 trillion of GDP. If you can’t find a way to invest your capital into some money making enterprise without utilizing the government as your own personal Kelly Services temp agency, then you deserve to fail.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @istevefan

    Unfortunately, the popular use of the terms "supply," "demand," "shortage," and "glut" are essentially meaningless. They are all in the eye of the beholder based on whatever price someone thinks should be "fair" or "correct," notwithstanding what the market decides a thing is worth.

    For example, you could say there is a "shortage" of silver because it's expensive or that there is a silver "glut" because it costs so much less than gold. Stuff is worth what someone will pay for it in a free market. Period.

    Economists use the term "shortage" in the specific sense that there is no supply to meet the amount demanded at a particular "price." For example, in Venezuela there is a bona fide "shortage" of bread because the "price" is 10 cents a loaf but no one will supply it at that price, so there is no bread for sale. That's a shortage. As in Venezuela, a true "shortage" usually only happens when the government fixes prices at non-market rates.

    Replies: @Jack D, @International Jew

  189. @Dave Pinsen

    Because nobody else in the world would want to move to Germany.
     
    Germany could do what Japan has done (at least in the past) and welcome ethnic Germans from overseas if they have a labor shortage that higher wages alone won’t fix.

    Brazilian Germans might even go back to Brazil after a few years of banking coin in Germany.

    Replies: @Lo, @Not Raul

    Brazilian Germans are having a good life in Brazil, why would they go to Germany and become lower class?

  190. @istevefan
    @Jack D

    Here is an NY Times op-ed from 2011 about the economics of agricultural field workers, by Philip Martin a labor economist at UC Davis.


    Consumers who pay $1 for a pound of apples are giving 30 cents to the farmer and 10 cents to the farm worker; those spending $2 for a head of lettuce are giving 50 cents to the farmer and 16 cents to the farm worker.

    If the influx of immigrant workers were slowed or stopped and farm wages rose, what would happen to expenditures on fresh fruits and vegetables? A case study from 1966 could give us some idea.

    That year, the United Farm Workers union won a 40 percent wage increase for some table grape harvesters, largely because the end of the Bracero program had cut off a supply of Mexican workers. The average earnings of U.S. field workers were $10.07 an hour in 2009, according to a U.S.D.A. survey of farm employers. If pressure to verify employees’ legal status resulted in a labor crisis similar to the one in 1966 and a similar 40 percent wage increase, average hourly earnings would rise to $14.10. If this were passed on to consumers, the 10 cent farm labor cost of a pound of apples would rise to 14 cents, and the $1 retail price would rise to $1.04.

    For a typical household, a 40 percent increase in farm labor costs translates into a 3.6 percent increase in retail prices. If farm wages rose 40 percent, and this wage increase were passed on to consumers, average spending on fresh fruits and vegetables would rise about $15 a year, the cost of two movie tickets. However, for a typical seasonal farm worker, a 40 percent wage increase could raise earnings from $10,000 for 1,000 hours of work to $14,000 — lifting the wage above the federal poverty line.
     

    Replies: @Jack D, @Hypnotoad666

    If this were passed on to consumers, the 10 cent farm labor cost of a pound of apples would rise to 14 cents, and the $1 retail price would rise to $1.04.

    The Op-Ed’s analysis is a simple example of question begging/circular reasoning. It just assumes that which it purports to prove — i.e., that labor costs will be passed on pro rata to each piece of fruit sold and that all other variables will remain constant.* Once this conclusion is assumed the rest is just arithmetic.

    But as the economist author presumably knows, his a priori assumption is just plain wrong. Indeed, to assume that all variables will remain static and that 100% of a particular production cost increase will go straight to the consumer price is ridiculous on its face.

    The actual effect of an increase in one production cost factor on consumer prices would depend on what economists call the “elasticity” of the supply and demand functions for that product. In plain English, those terms refer, respectively, to how many fewer units will be produced with each one cent increase in marginal cost, and how many fewer units will be purchased for each one cent increase in price.

    The elasticity of the supply and demand functions, in turn, are dependent on factors such as: consumer preferences (e.g. how many fewer salads would you eat if a head of lettuce cost 10 cents more); availability of labor substitutes (e.g., automation); the availability of alternate supply sources (e.g., imports), etc.

    In any event, the key economic input for agriculture is the land itself. This is a large sunk cost which cannot easily be used for any other purpose. As a result, pretty much 100% of any reduction or increase in the profitability of farm operations will end up being absorbed by a change in the asset value of the land itself.

    Thus, the most likely economic effect of increasing farm labor wages would be that: (a) farm workers would make more money; (b) production would stay approximately the same; (c) consumer prices would stay approximately the same; but (d) the value of farmland would decline by about the same percentages as the reduction in operational profits.

    *BTW, as a rule, journalists, pundits and lawyers usually misrepresent by manipulating the definitions of the word being used. Economists, on the other hand, tend to mislead by using unwarranted assumptions as the starting point for their analysis. Hence the old joke that an economist will solve a problem by “assuming a can opener.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assume_a_can_opener

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Hypnotoad666

    I'm not sure that what you predict would happen would really happen either. Real world markets are complex and don't always operate the way that textbook models predict. Prices are "sticky" downward but tend to ratchet upward (sometime but not always). There are all sorts of interactions and externalities and feedback loops. All the models suck - in the end no one really is able to make meaningful real world predictions in advance.

    , @istevefan
    @Hypnotoad666


    But as the economist author presumably knows, his a priori assumption is just plain wrong. Indeed, to assume that all variables will remain static and that 100% of a particular production cost increase will go straight to the consumer price is ridiculous on its face.
     
    Let's assume his argument is bogus. We know that at every stage of handling product from the field, to the wholesalers and retailers comes with some sort of markup. Different businesses have their own internal rates of return, and any outlay they make they will try to get back and then some.

    However, keep in mind the context of this guy's argument. He is the seemingly lone voice out there pointing out how low the actual labor costs are in these food items. The reason he had to focus on this is because the mainstream argument is that labor costs are exorbitant, and that if not for illegal Mexicans, the price of our food would double or triple and most Americans could not afford groceries.

    So if anything his argument is much closer to reality than the Chamber of Commerce hacks who want you to believe food will become unaffordable if we don't have access to cheap labor. This ignores two things. First, that the amount of labor in our food is not very high to begin with, which this author points out. And second, that if we can't produce food competitively, we can import it from others who do.

    Frankly, I'd rather import fruits and veggies from Mexico than to import Mexicans into America so that I can buy the same items from Californians.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

  191. @Hypnotoad666
    @istevefan


    If this were passed on to consumers, the 10 cent farm labor cost of a pound of apples would rise to 14 cents, and the $1 retail price would rise to $1.04.
     
    The Op-Ed's analysis is a simple example of question begging/circular reasoning. It just assumes that which it purports to prove -- i.e., that labor costs will be passed on pro rata to each piece of fruit sold and that all other variables will remain constant.* Once this conclusion is assumed the rest is just arithmetic.

    But as the economist author presumably knows, his a priori assumption is just plain wrong. Indeed, to assume that all variables will remain static and that 100% of a particular production cost increase will go straight to the consumer price is ridiculous on its face.

    The actual effect of an increase in one production cost factor on consumer prices would depend on what economists call the "elasticity" of the supply and demand functions for that product. In plain English, those terms refer, respectively, to how many fewer units will be produced with each one cent increase in marginal cost, and how many fewer units will be purchased for each one cent increase in price.

    The elasticity of the supply and demand functions, in turn, are dependent on factors such as: consumer preferences (e.g. how many fewer salads would you eat if a head of lettuce cost 10 cents more); availability of labor substitutes (e.g., automation); the availability of alternate supply sources (e.g., imports), etc.

    In any event, the key economic input for agriculture is the land itself. This is a large sunk cost which cannot easily be used for any other purpose. As a result, pretty much 100% of any reduction or increase in the profitability of farm operations will end up being absorbed by a change in the asset value of the land itself.

    Thus, the most likely economic effect of increasing farm labor wages would be that: (a) farm workers would make more money; (b) production would stay approximately the same; (c) consumer prices would stay approximately the same; but (d) the value of farmland would decline by about the same percentages as the reduction in operational profits.


    *BTW, as a rule, journalists, pundits and lawyers usually misrepresent by manipulating the definitions of the word being used. Economists, on the other hand, tend to mislead by using unwarranted assumptions as the starting point for their analysis. Hence the old joke that an economist will solve a problem by "assuming a can opener." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assume_a_can_opener

    Replies: @Jack D, @istevefan

    I’m not sure that what you predict would happen would really happen either. Real world markets are complex and don’t always operate the way that textbook models predict. Prices are “sticky” downward but tend to ratchet upward (sometime but not always). There are all sorts of interactions and externalities and feedback loops. All the models suck – in the end no one really is able to make meaningful real world predictions in advance.

  192. @Jack D
    @istevefan

    I don't think he is being honest here. Everyone has an agenda and plays with the numbers to suit his agenda.

    If I am a farmer (and market conditions permit) and my labor costs go up by 20%, I am going to try to increase my selling price by 20% and not just pass thru the extra cost. And if the price that the farmer gets (say 50 cent/lb) goes up 20% then the wholesale price that the retailer pays (say $1.00) goes up to $1.20 and then the retail price (say $2.00) becomes $2.40. So the idea that if you give the farm workers a 40% wage increase the retail price is only going to go up 4 cents/lb. is almost certainly a lie. That's just not how labor economics works and Martin probably knows better. When apples go up 40 cent/lb instead of 4 cents - oops, I lied.

    Replies: @istevefan, @William Badwhite, @Redneck farmer

    If you are a farmer, labor costs are only piece of your overall costs. You need fuel for your vehicles, you have to eventually replace those vehicles (depreciation), depending on what you’re growing you may need seed, you need pesticides and herbicides, maybe you lease your land, you need to pay taxes, etc.

    Then whatever it is you’re growing needs to be trucked from your farm to wherever the buyer stores it, then stuck on a train or truck to wherever its going, then trucked to a store where somebody has to put it on shelves.

    Whatever a farmer pays his stoop labor to pick avocados is only a small portion of the overall cost to consumers. UC-Davis is in agriculture ground zero – without a more detailed counter to Martin, I’m inclined to believe he knows what he’s doing and that his analysis is at least directionally accurate.

    Also I assume you know that (you being a farmer who grows a commodity) it doesn’t matter what you try to do with your selling price, the buyer is going to pay you the same thing he pays for every other avocado because your avocado is the same as every other farmer’s avocado.

    Everyone has an agenda and plays with the numbers to suit his agenda.

    Projection? Or just cynicism?

  193. @istevefan
    @Jack D


    ...just that the idea that employers are just “lying” and could find an unlimited amount of American born workers if they really wanted to, is not true either.
     
    No one is saying there is an unlimited supply. That is why there is a market. The market is a means to allocate scarce resources, not unlimited resources.

    Employers have choices. If the current enterprise you are engaged in is unsustainable in this country, then move your operations to another country where you are able to operate, or put your capital into another enterprise that will provide you with better returns in this market. If raising your wages makes you not viable as a company, then the market is telling you something.

    I owned a small business. I was forced to do just this thing when market conditions changed, and small businesses in my field could no longer compete against larger entities. Whereas early on small businesses in my field were running circles around the bigger guys who could not pull their heads out of the arses, eventually they caught on and with near monopoly power were able to drive us away. So I, like many others, had to take my capital and put it to other pursuits. Uncle Sam gave me no guarantee that I could continue in my chosen line.

    So these businesses that complain should have to do the same. We live in a gigantic, continental nation with over 325 million consumers with almost $20 trillion of GDP. If you can't find a way to invest your capital into some money making enterprise without utilizing the government as your own personal Kelly Services temp agency, then you deserve to fail.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    Unfortunately, the popular use of the terms “supply,” “demand,” “shortage,” and “glut” are essentially meaningless. They are all in the eye of the beholder based on whatever price someone thinks should be “fair” or “correct,” notwithstanding what the market decides a thing is worth.

    For example, you could say there is a “shortage” of silver because it’s expensive or that there is a silver “glut” because it costs so much less than gold. Stuff is worth what someone will pay for it in a free market. Period.

    Economists use the term “shortage” in the specific sense that there is no supply to meet the amount demanded at a particular “price.” For example, in Venezuela there is a bona fide “shortage” of bread because the “price” is 10 cents a loaf but no one will supply it at that price, so there is no bread for sale. That’s a shortage. As in Venezuela, a true “shortage” usually only happens when the government fixes prices at non-market rates.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Hypnotoad666

    Certainly price controls are one sure way of creating a shortage but shortages and surpluses can exist for other reasons, especially in the short run. Supply does not always magically meet demand like in the textbooks.

    Replies: @istevefan

    , @International Jew
    @Hypnotoad666

    And to that list, I'll add a piece of nonsense you hear all the time about the stock market — that there was "heavy selling" (or "a wave of selling") today.

    Which is nonsense because for a share of stock to be sold, it also has to be bought.

  194. @Desiderius
    @Anonymous

    German and English share a relatively recent parent.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Having a common parent (not that English and German really do – English is much more Latinized and Frenchified than German) is not definitive. It’s easier for an English speaker to learn Spanish just because it has a simpler grammatical structure than German. Portuguese and Spanish have a common parent but it’s easier for a Portuguese to learn Spanish than vice versa. There are other languages (Dutch) that are even closer to English and thus easier to learn. The bottom line is that German (coming from English) is at the 2nd level of difficulty (but coming from Arabic it is at the highest level of difficulty).

    • Replies: @Joe Schmoe
    @Jack D

    Nah, Spanish is harder to master because it has far more tenses and they are not analogous to English. German pretty much has the same tenses and they are used the same way. It is more tedious for a beginner to get all of the endings for German adjectives correct, but Spanish is more complicated and gets harder the farther you go. German starts a little more complicated but gets easier as you get into it because it is basically the same as English structure. English just dropped the endings that German retained.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  195. Alden says:

    Whoopee! One semi competent electrician apprentice who earns an apprentice wage. I wonder what will happen if he gets a woman journeyman assigned to teach him the practical work and be his boss. Or some woman customer doesn’t treat him with the respect due his Muslim manhood.

    And one volunteer foreman on complete welfare.

    Whoopee!!! Still, as in America, the cheap retail sector benefits from the ever expanding welfare population. What’s the German equivalent of our dollar stores?

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Alden


    What’s the German equivalent of our dollar stores?
     
    Der Mark Tannenbaum? No, I forgot about the new currency. Der EuroTrash?
    , @Reg Cæsar
    @Alden


    What’s the German equivalent of our dollar stores?
     
    Aldi's and Lidl essentially are dollar stores, concentrating on food.

    Here are Aldi's US locations:


    https://3yto781rontw1cnnh83813kx-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/aldi_store_map_usa-1024x566.png

    Replies: @Jack D

  196. @Hypnotoad666
    @istevefan

    Unfortunately, the popular use of the terms "supply," "demand," "shortage," and "glut" are essentially meaningless. They are all in the eye of the beholder based on whatever price someone thinks should be "fair" or "correct," notwithstanding what the market decides a thing is worth.

    For example, you could say there is a "shortage" of silver because it's expensive or that there is a silver "glut" because it costs so much less than gold. Stuff is worth what someone will pay for it in a free market. Period.

    Economists use the term "shortage" in the specific sense that there is no supply to meet the amount demanded at a particular "price." For example, in Venezuela there is a bona fide "shortage" of bread because the "price" is 10 cents a loaf but no one will supply it at that price, so there is no bread for sale. That's a shortage. As in Venezuela, a true "shortage" usually only happens when the government fixes prices at non-market rates.

    Replies: @Jack D, @International Jew

    Certainly price controls are one sure way of creating a shortage but shortages and surpluses can exist for other reasons, especially in the short run. Supply does not always magically meet demand like in the textbooks.

    • Replies: @istevefan
    @Jack D


    especially in the short run.
     
    Like turbo lag in a car, there will often be some short term realignment in the market. The problem is that we don't allow the market enough time to correct this imbalance on its own. Instead they want to import a person for a lifetime to fill this short term situation along with all the family members that person wants to bring. They never let the market work it out.
  197. @International Jew

    On both counts, early indications have been promising, if inconclusive.

    Nearly four years after German Chancellor Angela Merkel chose to leave the country’s borders open amid a vast influx of asylum seekers to Europe, a significant majority of the approximately 1.5 million people who have arrived since remain out of the labor force.
     

    Seems pretty conclusive to me!

    Ramadan, who serves as a volunteer firefighter in Hanover
     
    Uh-oh.

    Replies: @Ghost of Bull Moose

    He may be unclear on the meaning of ‘fire fighter’

  198. “Angela Merkel welcomed refugees to Germany” Nope. She could not stop them so they came, they saw, they stayed. Exactly what was her other choice?

    Frontex is the organization that defends Europe. My net searching indicates the Frontex budget is €238M like $250M. So why pretend they are taking it seriously? Allowing refugees in, welcoming, is short term the cheapest least violent solution.

  199. Anonymous[373] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman

    Because nobody else in the world would want to move to Germany.
     
    I had a friend who really wanted to move there for the rest of his life. He was born in Germany, but at an Army or Air Force base. He even got some supposedly big-time German politician involved to help him, went to Germany to meet the guy, and they still wouldn't let him immigrate. He is not around anymore to see WTH is going on now with the "refugees", just as well on that part ...

    Replies: @Anonymous

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Anonymous

    I listened to most of it, #-373. It was very interesting. Thank you.

  200. istevefan says:
    @Jack D
    @Hypnotoad666

    Certainly price controls are one sure way of creating a shortage but shortages and surpluses can exist for other reasons, especially in the short run. Supply does not always magically meet demand like in the textbooks.

    Replies: @istevefan

    especially in the short run.

    Like turbo lag in a car, there will often be some short term realignment in the market. The problem is that we don’t allow the market enough time to correct this imbalance on its own. Instead they want to import a person for a lifetime to fill this short term situation along with all the family members that person wants to bring. They never let the market work it out.

  201. @theo the kraut
    https://wp.me/sapuj6-1

    Google translation:

    Immigration consequences in Berlin and Germany

    - Without graduation: 20% of German Turks, (Berlin: 75%)

    - Unemployed German Turks: 48%, (Berlin: 50%), Almost every second unemployed person has a migration background.

    - Catastrophic school performance: 54% of all children with MiHiGru

    - Functional illiterates: 20% of all fourth graders (Berlin: 75% of all third graders)

    - More than 60% of Berlin police students fail in the German dictation

    - Infant mortality in Neukölln is nearly twice as high as in Restberlin as a result of early childhood developmental disorders

    - 51% of convicted offenders are foreigners (nationwide: 30%), 75% of suspects. Offenders and suspects with a migration background are not included. The prisons are overcrowded, disproportionate with Muslims and refugees.

    - One in three recipients of Hartz IV (welfare) is foreigners, non-migrant workers are not included.

    see website for sources and links.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Anon, @Anonymous, @AceDeuce

    When I was working in the Netherlands back in the mid 90s, the Dutch used to say the Turks flooding the Netherlands were like sperm–thousands came in at a time, and only one worked.

  202. istevefan says:
    @Hypnotoad666
    @istevefan


    If this were passed on to consumers, the 10 cent farm labor cost of a pound of apples would rise to 14 cents, and the $1 retail price would rise to $1.04.
     
    The Op-Ed's analysis is a simple example of question begging/circular reasoning. It just assumes that which it purports to prove -- i.e., that labor costs will be passed on pro rata to each piece of fruit sold and that all other variables will remain constant.* Once this conclusion is assumed the rest is just arithmetic.

    But as the economist author presumably knows, his a priori assumption is just plain wrong. Indeed, to assume that all variables will remain static and that 100% of a particular production cost increase will go straight to the consumer price is ridiculous on its face.

    The actual effect of an increase in one production cost factor on consumer prices would depend on what economists call the "elasticity" of the supply and demand functions for that product. In plain English, those terms refer, respectively, to how many fewer units will be produced with each one cent increase in marginal cost, and how many fewer units will be purchased for each one cent increase in price.

    The elasticity of the supply and demand functions, in turn, are dependent on factors such as: consumer preferences (e.g. how many fewer salads would you eat if a head of lettuce cost 10 cents more); availability of labor substitutes (e.g., automation); the availability of alternate supply sources (e.g., imports), etc.

    In any event, the key economic input for agriculture is the land itself. This is a large sunk cost which cannot easily be used for any other purpose. As a result, pretty much 100% of any reduction or increase in the profitability of farm operations will end up being absorbed by a change in the asset value of the land itself.

    Thus, the most likely economic effect of increasing farm labor wages would be that: (a) farm workers would make more money; (b) production would stay approximately the same; (c) consumer prices would stay approximately the same; but (d) the value of farmland would decline by about the same percentages as the reduction in operational profits.


    *BTW, as a rule, journalists, pundits and lawyers usually misrepresent by manipulating the definitions of the word being used. Economists, on the other hand, tend to mislead by using unwarranted assumptions as the starting point for their analysis. Hence the old joke that an economist will solve a problem by "assuming a can opener." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assume_a_can_opener

    Replies: @Jack D, @istevefan

    But as the economist author presumably knows, his a priori assumption is just plain wrong. Indeed, to assume that all variables will remain static and that 100% of a particular production cost increase will go straight to the consumer price is ridiculous on its face.

    Let’s assume his argument is bogus. We know that at every stage of handling product from the field, to the wholesalers and retailers comes with some sort of markup. Different businesses have their own internal rates of return, and any outlay they make they will try to get back and then some.

    However, keep in mind the context of this guy’s argument. He is the seemingly lone voice out there pointing out how low the actual labor costs are in these food items. The reason he had to focus on this is because the mainstream argument is that labor costs are exorbitant, and that if not for illegal Mexicans, the price of our food would double or triple and most Americans could not afford groceries.

    So if anything his argument is much closer to reality than the Chamber of Commerce hacks who want you to believe food will become unaffordable if we don’t have access to cheap labor. This ignores two things. First, that the amount of labor in our food is not very high to begin with, which this author points out. And second, that if we can’t produce food competitively, we can import it from others who do.

    Frankly, I’d rather import fruits and veggies from Mexico than to import Mexicans into America so that I can buy the same items from Californians.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @istevefan


    He is the seemingly lone voice out there pointing out how low the actual labor costs are in these food items. The reason he had to focus on this is because the mainstream argument is that labor costs are exorbitant, and that if not for illegal Mexicans, the price of our food would double or triple and most Americans could not afford groceries.

    So if anything his argument is much closer to reality than the Chamber of Commerce hacks who want you to believe food will become unaffordable if we don’t have access to cheap labor.
     

    That's true. At least he somewhat broke down the relative costs of the production process, which is a useful piece of data to refute the Chamber's "crops are rotting in the field" argument.

    In terms of the "rotting in the field" analysis, however, it would be more relevant to know the wholesale price the farmer can expect to get and how the labor costs compare to that. All the downstream processing, transportation and marketing costs of others are of no interest to the farmer in deciding how much labor to use and how much to pay. (That's maybe another example where the author used deliberately used the higher retail price to exaggerate his point a bit.)

    This farm labor issue piqued my interest enough to do some quick Googling on farm economics, which was enough to find this very interesting 2016 study of strawberry farm production by UC Davis. https://coststudyfiles.ucdavis.edu/uploads/cs_public/e7/6d/e76dceb8-f0f5-4b60-bcb8-76b88d57e272/strawberrycentralcoast-2016-final2-5-1-2017.pdf


    Yields. Strawberry yield is measured in trays per acre. Average yield for fresh market fruit ranges from 4,000 to 10,000 trays per acre and can be even higher for some varieties. This study assumes a yield of 7,000 trays containing eight 1-pound clamshells per acre. The weight ranges from 9.5 to 10.0 pounds per tray to account for some variance in fruit weight per tray and including the weight of the clamshells and trays.
     

    Returns. Based on 2012 to 2016 USDA Watsonville-Salinas Shipping Point returns (FOB), the representative return is $10.00 per tray. Strawberry prices range from $7.00 to $14.00 in the area. Estimated net returns to growers are shown in Table 4. Higher prices are seen early and late in the season when the volume of harvested product is low; lower prices are seen when peak season volumes are high.
     
    So at 7,000 trays per acre and $10 per tray that's $70,000 of berries per acre. Kind of surprising (to me anyway) that the yield is so high. As a reminder an acre is basically a football field (with the end zones included).

    Meanwhile as to the labor costs necessary to pick this bounty.


    Harvest. The crop is harvested from April through early October with peak harvest in June and July. Based on weight, the percent of the crop harvested each month in this study is shown in Table B. The grower hires a crew foreman to supervise one 35-person crew early and late in the season and two 35-person crews during peak production. . . . Each worker harvests roughly three trays per hour early and late in the season when fruit load is light; during peak production each worker can harvest five to eight trays per hour.

    So it sounds like each worker can pick about $60 of product per hour (six trays at $10 value each).

    This means that labor costs (looking at picking alone for simplicity) are getting up around 20-25% of production costs which is definitely a material factor.

    But, on the other hand, it's equally clear that no rational farmer is ever going to let $60.00 of strawberries "rot in the field" rather than pay, say, $15.00 to have them picked. And my understanding is that strawberries are about the most labor intensive crop there is. So the Chamber of Commerce argument is definitely BS.

    Anyway,

    https://youtu.be/HtUH9z_Oey8

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @istevefan

  203. @Rusty
    All this emphasis on "growth!". "We must have growth!!" "We must maintain growth!!"


    What would happen if a country just stayed stable, productive and harmonious?

    Would that be so terrible?

    Seems to me that if you look at the debt clocks of these "growth" obsessed countries, the growth is all fake anyway.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk, @Old Prude, @Joe Schmoe

    Indeed.

    Growth is not a metric of, by and for the people.

    Growth is the metric for our greedy barons.

    Sure, people want stuff like new technologies that actually make life better, but just endless growth, uh, no; bigger more crowded cities, no.

    We need a better metric than growth for the health of the economy.

  204. @Jack D
    @Desiderius

    Having a common parent (not that English and German really do - English is much more Latinized and Frenchified than German) is not definitive. It's easier for an English speaker to learn Spanish just because it has a simpler grammatical structure than German. Portuguese and Spanish have a common parent but it's easier for a Portuguese to learn Spanish than vice versa. There are other languages (Dutch) that are even closer to English and thus easier to learn. The bottom line is that German (coming from English) is at the 2nd level of difficulty (but coming from Arabic it is at the highest level of difficulty).

    Replies: @Joe Schmoe

    Nah, Spanish is harder to master because it has far more tenses and they are not analogous to English. German pretty much has the same tenses and they are used the same way. It is more tedious for a beginner to get all of the endings for German adjectives correct, but Spanish is more complicated and gets harder the farther you go. German starts a little more complicated but gets easier as you get into it because it is basically the same as English structure. English just dropped the endings that German retained.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Joe Schmoe

    Art Deco used to correct me all the time like Jack D does now until he learned to limit it to cases where he was sure he knew what he was talking about. I’ve gained some valuable knowledge from AD since. I have similar hopes for Jack.

    Replies: @William Badwhite

  205. @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    I didn't say it was a good idea, just that the idea that employers are just "lying" and could find an unlimited amount of American born workers if they really wanted to, is not true either. And it's not just a question of price (although price is a big consideration). For certain jobs it's doubtful you could find enough qualified American born labor at virtually any price. But just because a "labor shortage" exists doesn't mean that it is the government's obligation to let in more immigrants. A labor shortage maybe hurts industry but it helps labor and other things.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @nebulafox, @Oleaginous Outrager

    I didn’t say it was a good idea, just that the idea that employers are just “lying” and could find an unlimited amount of American born workers if they really wanted to, is not true either.

    The market can be tight for a season or two, and needs time to adjust. Of course. But we’re talking well over 40 years now.

    You’d think by now employers would have figured out which jobs Americans will do a what price.

  206. @Change that Matters
    The government started allowing Turks in for jobs in 1961 on two-year contracts (to "help the economy"). Of the 3/4 million who came on this scheme, about half went back as expected. The 325,000 who remained have expanded in 60 years into the largest "ethnic minority" in Germany. The consensus is there are at least 4 million full or partial Turks in the country today (or 5% of the population).

    theo the kraut's statistics are accurate and show how positive the Turk has been for Germany's economy.

    So the question we must now ask is how many generations will it take this current invading force (or Ramadan the multilingual welders) to attain the same stellar immigrationsfolgen (immigration consequences)?

    And how many Ramadan's will there be by 2078 (60 years)?

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Alice in Wonderland, @KenH

    And from what I understand the Turks living in Germany are just that, Turks. They are hostile to Germans and Germany and retain a fierce loyalty to Turkey and Islam. They’re also violent and cause much trouble in German schools.

    They need to be mass deported.

  207. @Reg Cæsar
    @Anon


    Poland and Romania have labor shortages too.
     
    There are no labor shortages anywhere. There are only labor shortages at a given price. Econ 101, remember?

    Raise the price until either the shortage or the demand dissipates.

    Replies: @Anon, @International Jew, @216, @Digital Samizdat, @Louis Renault, @Jack D, @obwandiyag

    Exactly right, and this is a leftist point.

    I like the imbecile respondent to you who doesn’t want to make more money. Probably because he is best friends with billionaires.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @obwandiyag


    Exactly right, and this is a leftist point.
     
    No, it's a human point. Plenty on the right hold it as well, more so than on the anti-deportation left.

    But I'm glad to see someone else agree with my proposal to raise the minimum wage for immigrants to $50/hr.
  208. @Jack D
    Lumber is in short supply in the Middle East and the preferred construction material seems to be masonry, which in modern construction is usually poured concrete. Because the climate is dry and lacking in freeze-thaw cycles, concrete, even if crudely made, holds up very well in the absence of artillery attack. There is also less need for insulation - wood construction with its hollow walls lends itself to being stuffed with insulation but there is no easy way to insulate a masonry wall. Hollow walls with easily drilled wooden members are also great for running pipes and wiring in a way that they will be concealed.

    The North American style of building wooden stick framed houses is really found in only a few other countries. Its genesis was the need to build quickly using semi-skilled labor (traditional timber framing with its elaborate joinery required skilled labor and expensive materials but anyone can nail a 2x4 to another 2x4) and that has never really changed.

    Replies: @jim jones, @Simply Simon

    Anyone can nail a 2×4 to another 2×4 but as an example not everyone can compute the exact length and pitch needed for valley rafters.

  209. KenH says:

    The war is over in Syria. Why aren’t these Syrian Muslim rapefugees going back home? I highly doubt it’s because the apprenticeship programs are so good.

    Germany needs to produce its own ethnically German young people to make Germany great again. They won’t be Germany or great with the children of Syrians and Turks who thus far in their evolution have only created third world flophouses where people marry their cousins.

    The Islamic religion is supposedly so great (according to its adherents) but Muslims always choose to live in the white Western world when the get the chance.

  210. @Hypnotoad666
    @istevefan

    Unfortunately, the popular use of the terms "supply," "demand," "shortage," and "glut" are essentially meaningless. They are all in the eye of the beholder based on whatever price someone thinks should be "fair" or "correct," notwithstanding what the market decides a thing is worth.

    For example, you could say there is a "shortage" of silver because it's expensive or that there is a silver "glut" because it costs so much less than gold. Stuff is worth what someone will pay for it in a free market. Period.

    Economists use the term "shortage" in the specific sense that there is no supply to meet the amount demanded at a particular "price." For example, in Venezuela there is a bona fide "shortage" of bread because the "price" is 10 cents a loaf but no one will supply it at that price, so there is no bread for sale. That's a shortage. As in Venezuela, a true "shortage" usually only happens when the government fixes prices at non-market rates.

    Replies: @Jack D, @International Jew

    And to that list, I’ll add a piece of nonsense you hear all the time about the stock market — that there was “heavy selling” (or “a wave of selling”) today.

    Which is nonsense because for a share of stock to be sold, it also has to be bought.

  211. @Alec Leamas
    @Achmed E. Newman


    Merkel was from old establisment-Commie stock and got degrees in Physical Chemistry. She can’t be stupid, so that’d make her evil then. She’s got a lot of blood on her hands.
     
    I imagine that Merkel is one of the many "clever sillies" who populate the ruling classes on both sides of the Atlantic.

    http://medicalhypotheses.blogspot.com/2009/11/clever-sillies-why-high-iq-lack-common.html

    In sum, you need to think of high intelligence not as merely an increase in certain capabilities, but rather as a trait of personality. They're inordinately attracted to novelty, paradox, etc. and have been trained from their early school days to believe that every problem is soluble if enough smart people with the correct credentials think about it for a long enough period of time. The granular nature of human nature and interaction confounds them at the abstract level, so they ignore those aspects of humans which doom their plans schemes to failure. This is why clever sillies adopt a blank slate formulation of human nature, and double down with religious fervor when it is proved time and again not to be the case.

    Replies: @Kylie, @megabar

    > This is why clever sillies adopt a blank slate formulation of human nature

    It’s also basic human nature to assume that other people think as you do. I mean, sure, objectively we all know that there are differences. But we don’t fully internalize that and take it to its conclusions.

    And so if you’re smart, you don’t understand that other people can’t quickly learn useful skills. If you’re wise, you can’t understand that some people have a very hard time making good life decisions.

  212. @Endgame Napoleon
    Germany has a lot of underemployed citizens. They even have mocking, derisive terms for the TV programs aimed at these groups of underemployed German citizens, and yet, they are bending over backwards to offer training to noncitizens.

    That should go over well.

    Meanwhile, robotics will displace most of them—even the most womb productive and welfare eligible of the glorified “working families” of every skin-pigmentation hue.

    The US should run this guy for president. I don’t agree with him on every single topic, but he is brilliant and addresses all of the major issues so clearly, like a couple of other economists.

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/05/07/are-you-ready-for-a-worse-dystopia-than-1984/

    This guy has the professional background in the political world to run without any questioning of his credibility. It would be so funny to see the MSMers go up against his questions—the serious ones they never bother to ask about this “booming” economy.

    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/05/02/does-america-have-an-economy-or-any-sense-of-reality/

    Replies: @J.Ross

    Look at all the sense that guy made in about ten paragraphs. I was a fan from his appearances in CounterPunch.

  213. @Jack D
    @istevefan

    I don't think he is being honest here. Everyone has an agenda and plays with the numbers to suit his agenda.

    If I am a farmer (and market conditions permit) and my labor costs go up by 20%, I am going to try to increase my selling price by 20% and not just pass thru the extra cost. And if the price that the farmer gets (say 50 cent/lb) goes up 20% then the wholesale price that the retailer pays (say $1.00) goes up to $1.20 and then the retail price (say $2.00) becomes $2.40. So the idea that if you give the farm workers a 40% wage increase the retail price is only going to go up 4 cents/lb. is almost certainly a lie. That's just not how labor economics works and Martin probably knows better. When apples go up 40 cent/lb instead of 4 cents - oops, I lied.

    Replies: @istevefan, @William Badwhite, @Redneck farmer

    A bigger problem, Jack, is buyers wouldn’t care that your costs went up. They’d just say, “We can’t pay any more for your produce, take it or leave it.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Redneck farmer

    There's a thing called the Shelkey Rule, named after a farmer named Shelkey.

    This states it's better to take a big loss than a total loss, but better to take a total loss over a really big one, lest the market become spoiled and your future prices reduced forever.

    Shelkey had a crop of something and the national price was down, but in his area especially so and the buyers tried to take advantage of the situation. Shelkey fed what he could of his bumper crops to the pigs, canned a bunch, then piled the rest into a pile and burned the lot.

    He had zero income that year, but because he was a tightfisted bastard with no debt could survive.
    The next year the buyers didn't fuck with him. Of course, he also didn't plant as much and grew some other crops besides.

    Shelkey was also infamous for crushing his used trucks because he got tired of the junkyard wanting to pay him $50 for a junk truck and charging $100 for the first part he tried to buy back from them. He'd pour sand in the engine and transmission, riddle the cab with a few well placed Weatherby rounds, bust all the glass, then get a friend to squash them with a dozer and then call the yard to haul them off for free.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Achmed E. Newman

  214. ‘…Can Germany integrate its vast numbers of asylum seekers? And can its economy continue to hum as the native-born population ages?

    On both counts, early indications have been promising, if inconclusive…’

    …and can Germany continue to be Germany — like her or no?

    On that count, early indications have been neither promising nor inconclusive.

    What profiteth a man to win the world, if he loses his soul?

  215. @Hypnotoad666
    @Alden


    Ramadan’s on welfare obviously.
     
    Yeah, and he's the best success story the WaPo could find to be the face of "immigrant success" for their article.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @Known Fact

    Yeah, and he’s the best success story the WaPo could find to be the face of “immigrant success” for their article.

    Maybe PhysicistDave can get him a job once he’s through learning physics in his spare time.

  216. @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    I didn't say it was a good idea, just that the idea that employers are just "lying" and could find an unlimited amount of American born workers if they really wanted to, is not true either. And it's not just a question of price (although price is a big consideration). For certain jobs it's doubtful you could find enough qualified American born labor at virtually any price. But just because a "labor shortage" exists doesn't mean that it is the government's obligation to let in more immigrants. A labor shortage maybe hurts industry but it helps labor and other things.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @nebulafox, @Oleaginous Outrager

    This is basic invisible-hand free-market stuff, Jack. It doesn’t take a big book. Listen, if there is a shortage of machinists, because nobody figures it’s worth it to gain the skills and expertise for $15/hr, then the pay will have to go up. At $30/hr., it becomes worth it for a guy to take a year-long class on using the mills, lathes, and such. As he works for a year or two, he becomes worth even more, as experience in set-up means a whole lot, and the guy can be twice as productive. Supply goes up to meet demand.

    If these machine shops are guaranteed cheap labor from immigrants whose upkeep is paid for by other taxpayers, which is the case, they’ll still get a bunch of crappy machinists. You’d think a smart boss would hire the more expensive but better machinists. However, when government gets involved in all aspects of the matter, than the invisible hand gets nailed to the freakin’ ground. Everything free market a government touches turns to shit – that’s pretty much the gist of it, come to think of it.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Achmed E. Newman

    I can run a lathe (I have a Monarch 10EE, replete with working thyratrons) and a Bridgeport (vertical mill) pretty well but couldn't get an entry level job a few years back as I was "too old" for someone without "work experience". A couple of years later one of those guys called me back and offered me $17/hr but by then I had my old career back.

    I have no experience with horizontal mills, jig borers, gear hobbers, shapers or planers but neither do many other still working machinists.

    I can also gas weld well enough to pass the FAA A&P test and the EAA course, submitted a coupon and everything. I'm nt.wth.sht on stick and have no wire feed or Heliarc though.

    I can do basic gunsmithing as well, though I leave DA revolvers alone.
    If I lose my job I can probably retire out now, but in the nineties or early 2000s it was a bitch. These guys were mighty particular despite their bitching they "couldn't find" workers. They couldn't find 19m year olds with ten years experince for minimum wage is what they meant. The shop owners had boats and Ferraris and were bitching like hell about no money.

  217. talk about zero human capital. personally i liked the story about the US military ending the afghanistan aircraft pilot program. i couldn’t believe they even had such a thing in the first place. that was the real shocker.

    if you ever needed THE ultimate ‘say no more’ story about how ultra insane the US has become.

    they don’t even let IQ 100, 20/20 vision americans become military pilots. but they’re gonna let IQ 80 sand people take a crack at it? it’s total nonsense. yeah no kidding half of the recruits literally dropped out and vanished. what did they think would happen?

    who in their right mind would even let ONE of them fly a US military aircraft?

    next up: the afghanistan nuclear reactor corps.

    • LOL: bomag
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @prime noticer

    How much IQ does it take to do this?

    https://www.pietenpolaircraftcompany.com/Websites/pietenpolaircraftcompany/images/vi's_airplane_9-6-12_003_thumb.jpg

    The guy that did this was a regular old Minnesota farmer. These Arabs can't even build a passable scale model of one of these.



    A quote from Bernard H. Pietenpol - Cherry Grove, Minnesota - 1928

    "PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER . . The Original Model A Powered Light Plane - Designed to get the best possible performance from a Model A motor, to be easy to fly, and to get the most flying hours for the money invested."

    The Pietenpol Air Camper continues to be a successful design for the same reasons homebuilders were so fascinated by the design 87 years ago. It still has graceful styling, predictable flying qualities, and easy construction.

    "Bernard Pietenpol never lost sight of the cost of flying and showed his true genius in keeping the construction cost down - and within reach of the common man."

     

    A few of these, a Rasberry Pi, some motors harvested from Toyotas, they could really build some flying kabooms there. Fortunately, too dumb.
    , @BigDickNick
    @prime noticer

    Our efforts to start a somali space program have likewise been a total clusterfuck!

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Reg Cæsar

  218. @istevefan
    @Jack D


    And the only reason that they can implement the system as well as they do is because these countries are not democratic.

    It’s hard to imagine that we could do something like this in America 2019 ,...
     
    A few years back Steve posted this about Canada's guest program.

    Only married men are eligible for the Canadian program, preferably those with young children, and their families must remain in Mexico. Another incentive to return home: a cut of the migrants’ wages is placed in a Canadian pension fund, receivable only if they return to Mexico.

    Then there are the other elements of the Canadian system that U.S. labor unions and farm worker advocates say they would not want to see copied.
    Once in Canada, the workers live like monks, sleeping in trailers or barracks, under contractual agreements that forbid them from drinking alcohol and having female visitors, or even socializing with other Mexican workers from different farms.

    Most of their time in Canada is limited to sleeping, eating and working long days that can stretch to 15 hours, without overtime pay.
     
    If Canada can do that, why can't we?

    Replies: @Jack D, @International Jew, @Alden

    That’s how Saudi, Kuwait, Oman etc treat a lot of their guest workers.

  219. @Dave Pinsen

    Because nobody else in the world would want to move to Germany.
     
    Germany could do what Japan has done (at least in the past) and welcome ethnic Germans from overseas if they have a labor shortage that higher wages alone won’t fix.

    Brazilian Germans might even go back to Brazil after a few years of banking coin in Germany.

    Replies: @Lo, @Not Raul

    Afrikaner electricians could move to Germany. Afrikaans isn’t so different from German.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Not Raul

    Afrikaans is Dutch, mutilated, folded and spindled.

    The Dutch all speak German but they do not like Germans and will screw with them whenever possible. Germans don't speak Dutch: usually English and French and surprisingly Spanish, and if educated, maybe Latin.


    The Dutch are the most linguistically talented group in Europe. But they don't like Germans very much. They're still pissed off about the bicycle thing.

  220. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Reg Cæsar

    without knowing German — a notoriously difficult language
     
    To Anglophones, yes. But to speakers of Arabic? Urdu?


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages#Grammar


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindustani_grammar#Morphology

    Replies: @Anonymous, @The Alarmist, @Anonymous

    German isn’t that tough, my own lack of progress in it is my own fault, not putting in the time.
    It’s fun actually, but has a lot of annoying long words.

    I learned vacuum tube electronics from German books, transliterating along the way, and can actually pretty well decipher the following:

    Ein Röhrenverstärker arbeitet mit lebensgefährlichen Anodenspannungen! Für den Nachbau der hier beschriebenen Geräte sind fundierte Kenntnisse der Elektronik und der elektrischen Sicherheit unbedingt erforderlich!!

    ___________________________________________________________________

    Auf dieser Seite werde ich Verstärker – Schaltungen – zum Nachbauen – vorstellen. Und, natürlich – werden es Röhrenverstärker sein, was denn auch sonst..?
    Es werden unter anderem einfache (will sagen : einfach nachzubauende) Mono- und Stereo-Verstärker mit kleinen, großen und größten Leistungen beschrieben, ebenfalls Vorverstärkerstufen mit Eingangsmischstufen für den Anschluß von Radio, Plattenspieler, CD-Player, Minidisk.. – mit aktiver Klangregelung und Loudness- Schalter.. – mit Wickeldaten für Netztransformatoren, für Ausgangsübertrager… und so weiter.

    Das oben abgebildete Foto ist ein Röhrenverstärker der Spitzenklasse, Hersteller J.C.Verdier aus Frankreich, ein 2 x 20-Watt-Vollverstärker.

    Hinweis : Die hier abgebildeten Verstärkerschaltungen sind überwiegend Schaltungen aus den frühen Röhrentagen, meist jedoch aus den 50er bis in die 60er Jahre. Der zu diesem Zeitpunkt geprägte Begriff ” Hi-Fi”, nach DIN 45500, entspricht (nicht unbedingt…) unseren heutigen Hi-Fi-Erwartungen. Zur damaligen Zeit galt fast alles, was lärmte, mehr als 5 Watt Leistung abgab bei unter 1 % Klirrfaktor und einen Frequenzgang von 40 – 12500 Hz (+ / – 3 dB) vorwies, als “Hi – Fi”. 😉

    Hinweis : Ich bin nicht fehlerfrei, wie keiner von uns .. – Deshalb : alle Angaben, sämtliche Daten die ich hier mache, – zu den Verstärkern und zu den dafür benötigten Transformatoren (wie z.B. die Wickeldaten) – sind von mir nach meinem besten Wissen und Gewissen recherchiert und berechnet worden, sie sind aber, natürlich, ohne Gewähr !

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Ein Bekannter von mir, der Namentlich ungenannt bleiben möchte, sandte mir die folgende hochinteressante Beschreibung eines OTL-Verstärkers zu, mit gleich 8 x 6AS7G. Die gesamte Beschreibung ist als Baubeschreibung ausgelegt.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Helmut Becker, Inhaber der Fa. Audiovalve, gab mir seine Erlaubnis, den von ihm entwickelten und in einer Elrad-Zeitschrift veröffentlichten PCL 805-Kopfhörer-Amp hier zu vorzustellen. Ein Amp, der weltweit grosse Beachtung fand!

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Einen EL 84-Gegentakt-Verstärker aus der DDR, den VEB MV 3 von den Klingenthaler Harmonikawerken, DDR zeigt dieser Link.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Hier gehts zu einer Seite, die den Bau eines hochwertigen Ultralinearen HiFi-Gegentaktübertragers für 2 x EL 84 beschreibt.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Einen Triodenverstärker kleiner Leistung (ca. 6 Watt), ideal als Treiber für Alnico- u.a. LS mit hohem Wirkungsgrad ist der 6C19-Triodenamp.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Auf der Seite Leser-Projekte stellte ich Ernst Rössler’s Verstärker vor, eine nach Grommes angelehnte Schaltung mit der EL 34 / 6L6 / KT 88 als Endstufe. Ich bat Ernst, für meine Verstärkerseite und, vor allem, für die GU 50 – Begeisterten, diese Schaltung mitamt Platine für die GU 50 anzupassen. – Herausgekommen ist ein Verstärker, der nicht nur mich begeistert… – es ist der Grommes-GU 50-Amp von Ernst Rössler !

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Auf dieser Seite stelle ich meinen Neuerwerb, den 6L6-Amp vom Klaus, vor. Ein toller Amp, der nicht nur mich sondern bisher alle meine Besucher begeisterte, wie beispielsweise Carsten (carawu) und Kay (kaspie)…

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Im folgend beschriebenen Link wird der Bau eines zweistufigen NF-Verstärkers zu Übungs- und Testzwecken mit der EL84 beschrieben. Hierin versuche ich auf leicht verständliche Art den Aufbau eines kleinen, leistungsfähigen und sogar hervorragend “klingenden” Verstärkers auch dem Neuling auf diesem Gebiet nahe zu bringen. Ich versuche, es Ihm leicht zu machen diesen schnell und garantiert funktionierend nachzubauen – sofern Er sich an die vorgegebenen Angaben und Zeichnungen hält…)

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Vom Stephan erhielt ich eine rieige Menge Funkschau-Schaltungen – eine davon ist der Vorverstärker S 59 A von Revox. Eine im einzelnen hochinteressante Schaltung – aber selbstverständlich auch die Gesamtschaltung ist hochinteressant.
    – Danke, Stephan!

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Der Röhrenhersteller SEL – Standard Elektrik Lorenz – entwickelt damals eine hervorragende Schaltung zur ECLL800, ebenfalls entwickelte sie einen hervorragenden Übertrager dazu. Dieser Übertrager wurde im übrigen der “Urvater”, er wurde zum Standard der meisten Übertrager. Der Franzis-Verlag hatte es sich einiges kosten lassen damals, diese Schaltung in seinen Büchern veröffentlichen zu können – die SEL-Leute zierten sich besonders wegen den Übertrager-Wickeldaten…

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Vom Rainer Fredel, Dipl.-Ing. und Inhaber einer hervorragend ausgestatteten Werkstatt in Bonn, erhielt ich vor einiger Zeit die nachfolgenden Fotos, mitsamt Schaltbild und einer kurzen Beschreibung eines uralten Kinoverstärkers Namens V12 der Fa. MWL – Radio in Lensahn / Ostfriesland. Ein interessantes Gerät!

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Anonymous


    transliterating
     
    I think you mean translating. There's nothing to transliterate from German to English, except Ä, Ö, Ü, and ß.
    , @Old Palo Altan
    @Anonymous

    Easy, but you meant "riesige" where you typed "rieige" .

    And everything else about your subject is no more interesting than that. German is a whole lot more than instructions and enthusiastic comments about bits of machinery.

    Try Kant, Hegel, or Heidegger.

    Or, if that's too hard (and it will be), there's always Goethe, Schiller, or Mann.

  221. @Lagertha
    Total bullshit. Merkel is a childless woman who is full of hatred for the Europe that ruined her life as a young girl with dreams. She is a POS. The irony is, not even a virile Muslim man would want to tie his ship to that old vessel. She banked on Hillary and both got nuthin because the world does not like Communism or old women...or old men. They should all hurry up and die as the world is getting more evil and angry thanks to them!!!!

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Buffalo Joe

    Lagertha, don’t hold it in. How do you really feel about Merkel?

  222. @Jack D
    @GermanReader2

    It's very hard to offer Western style constructive criticism to people who are from a "face" or shame based culture - they don't take it well. But probably there are culturally appropriate ways of instructing them that don't involve a loss of face.

    But that's not the real problem. The real problem that they are importing stupid people into a technological society. Low intelligence is an incurable (and often hereditary) condition. There was a time (even in the '50s and '60s when the Germans were bringing in guest workers from Turkey) that all an immigrant needed was a strong back so that he could stand all day and bolt the wheels onto the VWs moving down the assembly line. But if you want to train people in how to code or practice some skilled trade, you are never going to be able to train sub-90 IQ people to do it, even if they weren't poorly educated refugees from a different culture and language. This is why even 2nd and 3rd generation Turks are problematic. In some respects the next generation is even worse because at least the original immigrants have a work ethic and are used to hard manual labor from their rural upbringing.

    Replies: @Alec Leamas (hard at work), @nebulafox

    Not to mention that the kids tend to be way more into Islamic revivalism than the original generation of migrants.

  223. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    This is basic invisible-hand free-market stuff, Jack. It doesn't take a big book. Listen, if there is a shortage of machinists, because nobody figures it's worth it to gain the skills and expertise for $15/hr, then the pay will have to go up. At $30/hr., it becomes worth it for a guy to take a year-long class on using the mills, lathes, and such. As he works for a year or two, he becomes worth even more, as experience in set-up means a whole lot, and the guy can be twice as productive. Supply goes up to meet demand.

    If these machine shops are guaranteed cheap labor from immigrants whose upkeep is paid for by other taxpayers, which is the case, they'll still get a bunch of crappy machinists. You'd think a smart boss would hire the more expensive but better machinists. However, when government gets involved in all aspects of the matter, than the invisible hand gets nailed to the freakin' ground. Everything free market a government touches turns to shit - that's pretty much the gist of it, come to think of it.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I can run a lathe (I have a Monarch 10EE, replete with working thyratrons) and a Bridgeport (vertical mill) pretty well but couldn’t get an entry level job a few years back as I was “too old” for someone without “work experience”. A couple of years later one of those guys called me back and offered me $17/hr but by then I had my old career back.

    I have no experience with horizontal mills, jig borers, gear hobbers, shapers or planers but neither do many other still working machinists.

    I can also gas weld well enough to pass the FAA A&P test and the EAA course, submitted a coupon and everything. I’m nt.wth.sht on stick and have no wire feed or Heliarc though.

    I can do basic gunsmithing as well, though I leave DA revolvers alone.
    If I lose my job I can probably retire out now, but in the nineties or early 2000s it was a bitch. These guys were mighty particular despite their bitching they “couldn’t find” workers. They couldn’t find 19m year olds with ten years experince for minimum wage is what they meant. The shop owners had boats and Ferraris and were bitching like hell about no money.

  224. istevefan says:
    @Beckow
    @Achmed E. Newman


    ...Without open borders, wages would be decent enough, just based on free-market economics and the invisible hand of supply/demand
     
    That's the key. Post WWII for two generations borders were either closed or only partially opened - it led to the best labor market and growing prosperity. The business people and their hired academic economists were unhappy - the middle classes were uppity, the ability to accumulate $10 billion limited. So they changed the game.

    Starting in the 70's and 80's they worked on increasing labor supply with open borders, trade deals, and adding most women to the workforce. The policy could be summarised as: flood the labor markets with as much supply as possible. The transition is almost over and we see the results: most Western societies have lost the ability for working people to form and sustain families, inequality has increased dramatically, there is debt everywhere, and cultures are collapsing under the global migration pressures.

    The global cheap labor nirvana won't last, but the coming economic cataclysm is going to make things even worse. The academicians will probably blame racism and misogyny - they have already started, it is a sign of desperation. Notice that unlike a few years back nobody seriosly claims that the open borders globalism is a win-win for everybody. Now they say that it is inevitable, just learn how to live with it.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Anonymous

    Post WWII for two generations borders were either closed or only partially opened

    This probably had something to do with a couple things. First, you had the ongoing Cold War that was coldest in decades immediately after the conflict.

    Second, you had the fresh memory of WW2 in which it was seen that ethnic diversity could lead to war. Thus, many German ethnics who had lived in the east for hundreds of years were ethnically cleansed after the war. I think people then saw the importance of keeping groups somewhat separate to preserve the peace. This of course entailed not letting immigration upset the ethnic mix.

  225. @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    I didn't say it was a good idea, just that the idea that employers are just "lying" and could find an unlimited amount of American born workers if they really wanted to, is not true either. And it's not just a question of price (although price is a big consideration). For certain jobs it's doubtful you could find enough qualified American born labor at virtually any price. But just because a "labor shortage" exists doesn't mean that it is the government's obligation to let in more immigrants. A labor shortage maybe hurts industry but it helps labor and other things.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @nebulafox, @Oleaginous Outrager

    Employers in the US aren’t lying so much as they are just spoiled rotten. They expect market fluctuations to apply to the other side, but not to them.

    Shortened labor supply? In a saner nation, the answer to that would be tough luck, you’ve either got to pay higher wages now or decrease your standards on hiring some. Just as during times of plenty of labor, you get to be the one who is picky. But our government prioritizes giving them structurally depressed wages (not to mention hiking up the housing market through rentier policies) through corporate welfare and endless immigration over basic societal health, so…

  226. @216

    Of those who do work, many have taken low-paid jobs at restaurants, in warehouses or in the gig economy, performing on-demand deliveries.
     
    Increasing automation in this sector could fundamentally undermine the demand for coolie labor in the First World.

    The proper thing to do is pay the Syrians to repatriate and rebuild their own country.

    Replies: @MikeatMikedotMike, @Alden

    The people who lived in Syria 6,000 years ago built Syria and it flourished.

    Then the Arab Muslims came.

    The End

  227. @Hypnotoad666
    @Alden


    Ramadan’s on welfare obviously.
     
    Yeah, and he's the best success story the WaPo could find to be the face of "immigrant success" for their article.

    Replies: @Jim Don Bob, @Known Fact

    NPR is probably tracking him down right now for a worshipful 12-minute piece on All Things Considered

  228. @istevefan
    @Hypnotoad666


    But as the economist author presumably knows, his a priori assumption is just plain wrong. Indeed, to assume that all variables will remain static and that 100% of a particular production cost increase will go straight to the consumer price is ridiculous on its face.
     
    Let's assume his argument is bogus. We know that at every stage of handling product from the field, to the wholesalers and retailers comes with some sort of markup. Different businesses have their own internal rates of return, and any outlay they make they will try to get back and then some.

    However, keep in mind the context of this guy's argument. He is the seemingly lone voice out there pointing out how low the actual labor costs are in these food items. The reason he had to focus on this is because the mainstream argument is that labor costs are exorbitant, and that if not for illegal Mexicans, the price of our food would double or triple and most Americans could not afford groceries.

    So if anything his argument is much closer to reality than the Chamber of Commerce hacks who want you to believe food will become unaffordable if we don't have access to cheap labor. This ignores two things. First, that the amount of labor in our food is not very high to begin with, which this author points out. And second, that if we can't produce food competitively, we can import it from others who do.

    Frankly, I'd rather import fruits and veggies from Mexico than to import Mexicans into America so that I can buy the same items from Californians.

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    He is the seemingly lone voice out there pointing out how low the actual labor costs are in these food items. The reason he had to focus on this is because the mainstream argument is that labor costs are exorbitant, and that if not for illegal Mexicans, the price of our food would double or triple and most Americans could not afford groceries.

    So if anything his argument is much closer to reality than the Chamber of Commerce hacks who want you to believe food will become unaffordable if we don’t have access to cheap labor.

    That’s true. At least he somewhat broke down the relative costs of the production process, which is a useful piece of data to refute the Chamber’s “crops are rotting in the field” argument.

    In terms of the “rotting in the field” analysis, however, it would be more relevant to know the wholesale price the farmer can expect to get and how the labor costs compare to that. All the downstream processing, transportation and marketing costs of others are of no interest to the farmer in deciding how much labor to use and how much to pay. (That’s maybe another example where the author used deliberately used the higher retail price to exaggerate his point a bit.)

    This farm labor issue piqued my interest enough to do some quick Googling on farm economics, which was enough to find this very interesting 2016 study of strawberry farm production by UC Davis. https://coststudyfiles.ucdavis.edu/uploads/cs_public/e7/6d/e76dceb8-f0f5-4b60-bcb8-76b88d57e272/strawberrycentralcoast-2016-final2-5-1-2017.pdf

    Yields. Strawberry yield is measured in trays per acre. Average yield for fresh market fruit ranges from 4,000 to 10,000 trays per acre and can be even higher for some varieties. This study assumes a yield of 7,000 trays containing eight 1-pound clamshells per acre. The weight ranges from 9.5 to 10.0 pounds per tray to account for some variance in fruit weight per tray and including the weight of the clamshells and trays.

    Returns. Based on 2012 to 2016 USDA Watsonville-Salinas Shipping Point returns (FOB), the representative return is $10.00 per tray. Strawberry prices range from $7.00 to $14.00 in the area. Estimated net returns to growers are shown in Table 4. Higher prices are seen early and late in the season when the volume of harvested product is low; lower prices are seen when peak season volumes are high.

    So at 7,000 trays per acre and $10 per tray that’s $70,000 of berries per acre. Kind of surprising (to me anyway) that the yield is so high. As a reminder an acre is basically a football field (with the end zones included).

    Meanwhile as to the labor costs necessary to pick this bounty.

    Harvest. The crop is harvested from April through early October with peak harvest in June and July. Based on weight, the percent of the crop harvested each month in this study is shown in Table B. The grower hires a crew foreman to supervise one 35-person crew early and late in the season and two 35-person crews during peak production. . . . Each worker harvests roughly three trays per hour early and late in the season when fruit load is light; during peak production each worker can harvest five to eight trays per hour.

    So it sounds like each worker can pick about $60 of product per hour (six trays at $10 value each).

    This means that labor costs (looking at picking alone for simplicity) are getting up around 20-25% of production costs which is definitely a material factor.

    But, on the other hand, it’s equally clear that no rational farmer is ever going to let $60.00 of strawberries “rot in the field” rather than pay, say, $15.00 to have them picked. And my understanding is that strawberries are about the most labor intensive crop there is. So the Chamber of Commerce argument is definitely BS.

    Anyway,

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Hypnotoad666

    I forgot how cheesy the Beatles' proto-videos were.

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Hypnotoad666

    Good stuff, Toad. Thanks for the numbers. The labor is significant, but not an overwhelming cost.

    , @istevefan
    @Hypnotoad666

    Note the PDF you linked is from UC Davis. The guy that wrote the op-ed I linked to from 2011 is a professor at UC Davis, though he did not participate in that paper you linked.

    I don't know about the cost-benefit of this, but for what it is worth here is a strawberry harvester machine. My guess is these are only going to get better. If the labor market is tight, it would speed up adoption of such technology. If we turn the other eye towards border jumpers, we will remain mired in the past methods of farming.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3SGScaShhw

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

  229. @obwandiyag
    @Reg Cæsar

    Exactly right, and this is a leftist point.

    I like the imbecile respondent to you who doesn't want to make more money. Probably because he is best friends with billionaires.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Exactly right, and this is a leftist point.

    No, it’s a human point. Plenty on the right hold it as well, more so than on the anti-deportation left.

    But I’m glad to see someone else agree with my proposal to raise the minimum wage for immigrants to $50/hr.

  230. @Hypnotoad666
    @istevefan


    He is the seemingly lone voice out there pointing out how low the actual labor costs are in these food items. The reason he had to focus on this is because the mainstream argument is that labor costs are exorbitant, and that if not for illegal Mexicans, the price of our food would double or triple and most Americans could not afford groceries.

    So if anything his argument is much closer to reality than the Chamber of Commerce hacks who want you to believe food will become unaffordable if we don’t have access to cheap labor.
     

    That's true. At least he somewhat broke down the relative costs of the production process, which is a useful piece of data to refute the Chamber's "crops are rotting in the field" argument.

    In terms of the "rotting in the field" analysis, however, it would be more relevant to know the wholesale price the farmer can expect to get and how the labor costs compare to that. All the downstream processing, transportation and marketing costs of others are of no interest to the farmer in deciding how much labor to use and how much to pay. (That's maybe another example where the author used deliberately used the higher retail price to exaggerate his point a bit.)

    This farm labor issue piqued my interest enough to do some quick Googling on farm economics, which was enough to find this very interesting 2016 study of strawberry farm production by UC Davis. https://coststudyfiles.ucdavis.edu/uploads/cs_public/e7/6d/e76dceb8-f0f5-4b60-bcb8-76b88d57e272/strawberrycentralcoast-2016-final2-5-1-2017.pdf


    Yields. Strawberry yield is measured in trays per acre. Average yield for fresh market fruit ranges from 4,000 to 10,000 trays per acre and can be even higher for some varieties. This study assumes a yield of 7,000 trays containing eight 1-pound clamshells per acre. The weight ranges from 9.5 to 10.0 pounds per tray to account for some variance in fruit weight per tray and including the weight of the clamshells and trays.
     

    Returns. Based on 2012 to 2016 USDA Watsonville-Salinas Shipping Point returns (FOB), the representative return is $10.00 per tray. Strawberry prices range from $7.00 to $14.00 in the area. Estimated net returns to growers are shown in Table 4. Higher prices are seen early and late in the season when the volume of harvested product is low; lower prices are seen when peak season volumes are high.
     
    So at 7,000 trays per acre and $10 per tray that's $70,000 of berries per acre. Kind of surprising (to me anyway) that the yield is so high. As a reminder an acre is basically a football field (with the end zones included).

    Meanwhile as to the labor costs necessary to pick this bounty.


    Harvest. The crop is harvested from April through early October with peak harvest in June and July. Based on weight, the percent of the crop harvested each month in this study is shown in Table B. The grower hires a crew foreman to supervise one 35-person crew early and late in the season and two 35-person crews during peak production. . . . Each worker harvests roughly three trays per hour early and late in the season when fruit load is light; during peak production each worker can harvest five to eight trays per hour.

    So it sounds like each worker can pick about $60 of product per hour (six trays at $10 value each).

    This means that labor costs (looking at picking alone for simplicity) are getting up around 20-25% of production costs which is definitely a material factor.

    But, on the other hand, it's equally clear that no rational farmer is ever going to let $60.00 of strawberries "rot in the field" rather than pay, say, $15.00 to have them picked. And my understanding is that strawberries are about the most labor intensive crop there is. So the Chamber of Commerce argument is definitely BS.

    Anyway,

    https://youtu.be/HtUH9z_Oey8

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @istevefan

    I forgot how cheesy the Beatles’ proto-videos were.

  231. @Anonymous
    @Achmed E. Newman

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/b0174h5t

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    I listened to most of it, #-373. It was very interesting. Thank you.

  232. @Hypnotoad666
    @istevefan


    He is the seemingly lone voice out there pointing out how low the actual labor costs are in these food items. The reason he had to focus on this is because the mainstream argument is that labor costs are exorbitant, and that if not for illegal Mexicans, the price of our food would double or triple and most Americans could not afford groceries.

    So if anything his argument is much closer to reality than the Chamber of Commerce hacks who want you to believe food will become unaffordable if we don’t have access to cheap labor.
     

    That's true. At least he somewhat broke down the relative costs of the production process, which is a useful piece of data to refute the Chamber's "crops are rotting in the field" argument.

    In terms of the "rotting in the field" analysis, however, it would be more relevant to know the wholesale price the farmer can expect to get and how the labor costs compare to that. All the downstream processing, transportation and marketing costs of others are of no interest to the farmer in deciding how much labor to use and how much to pay. (That's maybe another example where the author used deliberately used the higher retail price to exaggerate his point a bit.)

    This farm labor issue piqued my interest enough to do some quick Googling on farm economics, which was enough to find this very interesting 2016 study of strawberry farm production by UC Davis. https://coststudyfiles.ucdavis.edu/uploads/cs_public/e7/6d/e76dceb8-f0f5-4b60-bcb8-76b88d57e272/strawberrycentralcoast-2016-final2-5-1-2017.pdf


    Yields. Strawberry yield is measured in trays per acre. Average yield for fresh market fruit ranges from 4,000 to 10,000 trays per acre and can be even higher for some varieties. This study assumes a yield of 7,000 trays containing eight 1-pound clamshells per acre. The weight ranges from 9.5 to 10.0 pounds per tray to account for some variance in fruit weight per tray and including the weight of the clamshells and trays.
     

    Returns. Based on 2012 to 2016 USDA Watsonville-Salinas Shipping Point returns (FOB), the representative return is $10.00 per tray. Strawberry prices range from $7.00 to $14.00 in the area. Estimated net returns to growers are shown in Table 4. Higher prices are seen early and late in the season when the volume of harvested product is low; lower prices are seen when peak season volumes are high.
     
    So at 7,000 trays per acre and $10 per tray that's $70,000 of berries per acre. Kind of surprising (to me anyway) that the yield is so high. As a reminder an acre is basically a football field (with the end zones included).

    Meanwhile as to the labor costs necessary to pick this bounty.


    Harvest. The crop is harvested from April through early October with peak harvest in June and July. Based on weight, the percent of the crop harvested each month in this study is shown in Table B. The grower hires a crew foreman to supervise one 35-person crew early and late in the season and two 35-person crews during peak production. . . . Each worker harvests roughly three trays per hour early and late in the season when fruit load is light; during peak production each worker can harvest five to eight trays per hour.

    So it sounds like each worker can pick about $60 of product per hour (six trays at $10 value each).

    This means that labor costs (looking at picking alone for simplicity) are getting up around 20-25% of production costs which is definitely a material factor.

    But, on the other hand, it's equally clear that no rational farmer is ever going to let $60.00 of strawberries "rot in the field" rather than pay, say, $15.00 to have them picked. And my understanding is that strawberries are about the most labor intensive crop there is. So the Chamber of Commerce argument is definitely BS.

    Anyway,

    https://youtu.be/HtUH9z_Oey8

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @istevefan

    Good stuff, Toad. Thanks for the numbers. The labor is significant, but not an overwhelming cost.

  233. Anonymous[396] • Disclaimer says:
    @Wilkey
    @Anonymous

    Don’t worry. Soon the Washington Post will move the goalposts and tell everyone that it’s the next generation of Arabs, er Germans that are going to save the German economy.

    Which raises an important question: most of the refugees we saw arriving 4 years ago were men - like 80% or more of them. Presumably a lot of them applied to have their spouses, fiances, child-brides, parents, children allowed in to join them. To what degree has that actually happened?

    For a lot of these refugees there can only be a second generation if the women who didn't come with them are allowed to join them. Has that been allowed to happen? If not, I suspect many of them (though not enough) will be returning home.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    If not, I suspect many of them (though not enough) will be returning home.

    If the Germans couldn’t bring themselves(for the sake of their continued existence no less) to fight back a wave of young male invaders from their borders, what makes you think they could ever reject women and children?

    Even if they did say that they were stopping chain migration, all the invaders would need to to is coordinate nationwide using their taxpayer-subsidized smartphones and start a Germany-wide riot within an hour.

    Within a week German cities would be desolated in a way not seen since 1945.

    You think the Bundeswehr is going to do something about it?

  234. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @Buzz Mohawk
    @Anonymous

    It's a matter of whether or not Europeans, as a people, want to have a united continent, like America, or not.

    Part of our strength, so far, as America, is that we share one continent, from "sea to shining sea," as one people with one language and one government. Now, the Europeans have problems, not the least of which is language. (Never underestimate the role of language in holding a people together.) Of course, now my America is being flushed down into a sewer of multi-culti-vibranti.

    The white "trash" from other parts of Europe would include my brother-in-law, who regularly drives a truck from Romania to Germany, Denmark and The Netherlands. He does not rape women or kidnap them for sex slavery. He does not knife people on the street. He does not live on welfare. He and his Eastern European friends do not form their own Sharia law systems in the middle of other people's countries.

    There is no comparison. Your point is completely bogus. As for the Europeans, let them work this out among themselves -- without invaders making their challenge harder than it already is.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    “Trash” was your word. You compared the immigrants, European and non-European, to trash, specifically to plain trash and trash that stinks, respectively. In that case, obviously the percentages of plain and stinky trash is very relevant.

  235. Anonymous[375] • Disclaimer says:
    @ben tillman
    @Anonymous

    Stupid. Sweden has unlimited immigration (i.e., the spigot is never to be turned off, even if it is never opened up to full throttle), so the current % is meaningless. All that matters is that current policies (which the ruling class tells us are intended to be permanent) will eventually make the % of non-Europeans 100 and the % of Swedes 0.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Anonymous

    Yeah, it’s totally stupid to know what percentage of immigrants come from where. Also, nothing ever changes, so it’s pointless to know anything about the percentages anyway.

  236. istevefan says:
    @Hypnotoad666
    @istevefan


    He is the seemingly lone voice out there pointing out how low the actual labor costs are in these food items. The reason he had to focus on this is because the mainstream argument is that labor costs are exorbitant, and that if not for illegal Mexicans, the price of our food would double or triple and most Americans could not afford groceries.

    So if anything his argument is much closer to reality than the Chamber of Commerce hacks who want you to believe food will become unaffordable if we don’t have access to cheap labor.
     

    That's true. At least he somewhat broke down the relative costs of the production process, which is a useful piece of data to refute the Chamber's "crops are rotting in the field" argument.

    In terms of the "rotting in the field" analysis, however, it would be more relevant to know the wholesale price the farmer can expect to get and how the labor costs compare to that. All the downstream processing, transportation and marketing costs of others are of no interest to the farmer in deciding how much labor to use and how much to pay. (That's maybe another example where the author used deliberately used the higher retail price to exaggerate his point a bit.)

    This farm labor issue piqued my interest enough to do some quick Googling on farm economics, which was enough to find this very interesting 2016 study of strawberry farm production by UC Davis. https://coststudyfiles.ucdavis.edu/uploads/cs_public/e7/6d/e76dceb8-f0f5-4b60-bcb8-76b88d57e272/strawberrycentralcoast-2016-final2-5-1-2017.pdf


    Yields. Strawberry yield is measured in trays per acre. Average yield for fresh market fruit ranges from 4,000 to 10,000 trays per acre and can be even higher for some varieties. This study assumes a yield of 7,000 trays containing eight 1-pound clamshells per acre. The weight ranges from 9.5 to 10.0 pounds per tray to account for some variance in fruit weight per tray and including the weight of the clamshells and trays.
     

    Returns. Based on 2012 to 2016 USDA Watsonville-Salinas Shipping Point returns (FOB), the representative return is $10.00 per tray. Strawberry prices range from $7.00 to $14.00 in the area. Estimated net returns to growers are shown in Table 4. Higher prices are seen early and late in the season when the volume of harvested product is low; lower prices are seen when peak season volumes are high.
     
    So at 7,000 trays per acre and $10 per tray that's $70,000 of berries per acre. Kind of surprising (to me anyway) that the yield is so high. As a reminder an acre is basically a football field (with the end zones included).

    Meanwhile as to the labor costs necessary to pick this bounty.


    Harvest. The crop is harvested from April through early October with peak harvest in June and July. Based on weight, the percent of the crop harvested each month in this study is shown in Table B. The grower hires a crew foreman to supervise one 35-person crew early and late in the season and two 35-person crews during peak production. . . . Each worker harvests roughly three trays per hour early and late in the season when fruit load is light; during peak production each worker can harvest five to eight trays per hour.

    So it sounds like each worker can pick about $60 of product per hour (six trays at $10 value each).

    This means that labor costs (looking at picking alone for simplicity) are getting up around 20-25% of production costs which is definitely a material factor.

    But, on the other hand, it's equally clear that no rational farmer is ever going to let $60.00 of strawberries "rot in the field" rather than pay, say, $15.00 to have them picked. And my understanding is that strawberries are about the most labor intensive crop there is. So the Chamber of Commerce argument is definitely BS.

    Anyway,

    https://youtu.be/HtUH9z_Oey8

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @istevefan

    Note the PDF you linked is from UC Davis. The guy that wrote the op-ed I linked to from 2011 is a professor at UC Davis, though he did not participate in that paper you linked.

    I don’t know about the cost-benefit of this, but for what it is worth here is a strawberry harvester machine. My guess is these are only going to get better. If the labor market is tight, it would speed up adoption of such technology. If we turn the other eye towards border jumpers, we will remain mired in the past methods of farming.

    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @istevefan

    That machine is wild, with its little robot fingers picking the berries. According to their website it uses 3D sensors and AI to decide which strawberries are ripe enough for picking. And best of all, the taxpayers don't have to put its kids through the "school to prison pipeline."

  237. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Not Raul
    @Dave Pinsen

    Afrikaner electricians could move to Germany. Afrikaans isn’t so different from German.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Afrikaans is Dutch, mutilated, folded and spindled.

    The Dutch all speak German but they do not like Germans and will screw with them whenever possible. Germans don’t speak Dutch: usually English and French and surprisingly Spanish, and if educated, maybe Latin.

    The Dutch are the most linguistically talented group in Europe. But they don’t like Germans very much. They’re still pissed off about the bicycle thing.

  238. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @prime noticer
    talk about zero human capital. personally i liked the story about the US military ending the afghanistan aircraft pilot program. i couldn't believe they even had such a thing in the first place. that was the real shocker.

    if you ever needed THE ultimate 'say no more' story about how ultra insane the US has become.

    they don't even let IQ 100, 20/20 vision americans become military pilots. but they're gonna let IQ 80 sand people take a crack at it? it's total nonsense. yeah no kidding half of the recruits literally dropped out and vanished. what did they think would happen?

    who in their right mind would even let ONE of them fly a US military aircraft?

    next up: the afghanistan nuclear reactor corps.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @BigDickNick

    How much IQ does it take to do this?

    The guy that did this was a regular old Minnesota farmer. These Arabs can’t even build a passable scale model of one of these.

    A quote from Bernard H. Pietenpol – Cherry Grove, Minnesota – 1928

    “PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER . . The Original Model A Powered Light Plane – Designed to get the best possible performance from a Model A motor, to be easy to fly, and to get the most flying hours for the money invested.”

    The Pietenpol Air Camper continues to be a successful design for the same reasons homebuilders were so fascinated by the design 87 years ago. It still has graceful styling, predictable flying qualities, and easy construction.

    “Bernard Pietenpol never lost sight of the cost of flying and showed his true genius in keeping the construction cost down – and within reach of the common man.”

    A few of these, a Rasberry Pi, some motors harvested from Toyotas, they could really build some flying kabooms there. Fortunately, too dumb.

  239. @Joe Schmoe
    @Jack D

    Nah, Spanish is harder to master because it has far more tenses and they are not analogous to English. German pretty much has the same tenses and they are used the same way. It is more tedious for a beginner to get all of the endings for German adjectives correct, but Spanish is more complicated and gets harder the farther you go. German starts a little more complicated but gets easier as you get into it because it is basically the same as English structure. English just dropped the endings that German retained.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Art Deco used to correct me all the time like Jack D does now until he learned to limit it to cases where he was sure he knew what he was talking about. I’ve gained some valuable knowledge from AD since. I have similar hopes for Jack.

    • Replies: @William Badwhite
    @Desiderius


    I’ve gained some valuable knowledge from AD since.
     
    Really? Based on your (hopefully serious) comment, I'll think about taking AD off the "commenters to ignore" list

    Replies: @Desiderius

  240. @prime noticer
    talk about zero human capital. personally i liked the story about the US military ending the afghanistan aircraft pilot program. i couldn't believe they even had such a thing in the first place. that was the real shocker.

    if you ever needed THE ultimate 'say no more' story about how ultra insane the US has become.

    they don't even let IQ 100, 20/20 vision americans become military pilots. but they're gonna let IQ 80 sand people take a crack at it? it's total nonsense. yeah no kidding half of the recruits literally dropped out and vanished. what did they think would happen?

    who in their right mind would even let ONE of them fly a US military aircraft?

    next up: the afghanistan nuclear reactor corps.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @BigDickNick

    Our efforts to start a somali space program have likewise been a total clusterfuck!

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @BigDickNick

    The Somalians are doing it wrong then, that's all. Ken Burns (or a facsimile thereof"s) documentary below begs to differ, Mr. Nick:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6xJzAYYrX8

    I've seen this 3 times and never LOLed at that line near the beginning before: "It was a different time, you understand ... See, in 1957, if you were black .. and if you were an astronaut ... you were out of work." So matter-of-factly.

    , @Reg Cæsar
    @BigDickNick


    Our efforts to start a somali space program have likewise been a total clusterfuck!
     
    Somalia might just be the best site in the world for a space program, and possibly for an observatory as well. If you could guarantee their safety. And transport the rockets there.

    The EU uses French Guiana for their launches. Where do Chinese rockets launch from?

    Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager

  241. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    @Desiderius

    I got the impression during the last election, that this Hawley fellow was destined for political stardom. Maybe even a future Presidency. I will watch this with interest when I get home.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    Is Hawley the senator any relation to Hawley the political scientist?

  242. women like Merkel, are an embarrassment to the human race. She is a childless, thoughtless, frumpy and ambiguous piece of garbage. Merkel never ever, talked about improving economic output in Germany, improving the economy for immigrants (more importantly) nor…integrating Muslims into German society (for the last fracking 40 years!). She was just a pawn of the Banking Cabal. She deserves to suffer and disappear – she is garbage. I hate her and women and men like her…but, like most of you know, I really despise women.

  243. @istevefan
    @Hypnotoad666

    Note the PDF you linked is from UC Davis. The guy that wrote the op-ed I linked to from 2011 is a professor at UC Davis, though he did not participate in that paper you linked.

    I don't know about the cost-benefit of this, but for what it is worth here is a strawberry harvester machine. My guess is these are only going to get better. If the labor market is tight, it would speed up adoption of such technology. If we turn the other eye towards border jumpers, we will remain mired in the past methods of farming.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3SGScaShhw

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    That machine is wild, with its little robot fingers picking the berries. According to their website it uses 3D sensors and AI to decide which strawberries are ripe enough for picking. And best of all, the taxpayers don’t have to put its kids through the “school to prison pipeline.”

  244. Anonymous[427] • Disclaimer says:
    @Redneck farmer
    @Jack D

    A bigger problem, Jack, is buyers wouldn't care that your costs went up. They'd just say, "We can't pay any more for your produce, take it or leave it."

    Replies: @Anonymous

    There’s a thing called the Shelkey Rule, named after a farmer named Shelkey.

    This states it’s better to take a big loss than a total loss, but better to take a total loss over a really big one, lest the market become spoiled and your future prices reduced forever.

    Shelkey had a crop of something and the national price was down, but in his area especially so and the buyers tried to take advantage of the situation. Shelkey fed what he could of his bumper crops to the pigs, canned a bunch, then piled the rest into a pile and burned the lot.

    He had zero income that year, but because he was a tightfisted bastard with no debt could survive.
    The next year the buyers didn’t fuck with him. Of course, he also didn’t plant as much and grew some other crops besides.

    Shelkey was also infamous for crushing his used trucks because he got tired of the junkyard wanting to pay him $50 for a junk truck and charging $100 for the first part he tried to buy back from them. He’d pour sand in the engine and transmission, riddle the cab with a few well placed Weatherby rounds, bust all the glass, then get a friend to squash them with a dozer and then call the yard to haul them off for free.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Anonymous

    When you look in the dictionary at "cutting off your nose to spite your face" there's a picture of Shelkey. The only one he hurt was himself. The market doesn't care whether you burn your crops or smash your old trucks. You can't "teach buyers a lesson" as an individual seller with no market power. You might as well try to bail out the ocean with a teacup.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    , @Achmed E. Newman
    @Anonymous

    I don't know this guy Shelkey, but I really like him! I also would rather take a loss sometimes than get just plain ripped off. I've left 4 record albums on the median of the street before rather than let them go for 25 cents apiece to the used-record store owner. Unfortunately, one of them was KIZZ - Destroyer. Damn!

  245. Anonymous[307] • Disclaimer says:
    @Beckow
    @Achmed E. Newman


    ...Without open borders, wages would be decent enough, just based on free-market economics and the invisible hand of supply/demand
     
    That's the key. Post WWII for two generations borders were either closed or only partially opened - it led to the best labor market and growing prosperity. The business people and their hired academic economists were unhappy - the middle classes were uppity, the ability to accumulate $10 billion limited. So they changed the game.

    Starting in the 70's and 80's they worked on increasing labor supply with open borders, trade deals, and adding most women to the workforce. The policy could be summarised as: flood the labor markets with as much supply as possible. The transition is almost over and we see the results: most Western societies have lost the ability for working people to form and sustain families, inequality has increased dramatically, there is debt everywhere, and cultures are collapsing under the global migration pressures.

    The global cheap labor nirvana won't last, but the coming economic cataclysm is going to make things even worse. The academicians will probably blame racism and misogyny - they have already started, it is a sign of desperation. Notice that unlike a few years back nobody seriosly claims that the open borders globalism is a win-win for everybody. Now they say that it is inevitable, just learn how to live with it.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Anonymous

    One of the worst ironies is that the British Labour Party – a political party formed by and for the British working class to represent the British working class – became under the Blair/Economist regime the world’s biggest importer of dirt cheap hard scrabble labor, in order to fatten the pockets of capitalist bosses.

  246. Anonymous[307] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dieter Kief
    @Simon in London

    If only your IQ assumptions were correct - and one last if, if you please: If only IQ would make people work. Most of those Syrians don't work in Germany. And not only (by a far stretch) because they lack IQ - they lack qualifications, they lack their family ties, they lack the mentality, which makes people work in a cold climate. Many of them lack the bodily strength too, which is required - especially for low-qualification jobs. And none of them speaks Geman - none of all of those below IQ 85, at least (and my guess would be: That could quite easily be the majority of them).

    The whole Merkel-affair is a complete mess of blue-eyedness on the side of almost all in the actual German government. A pretty wild mess, which will outlast me, that's for sure.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Jack D, @Anonymous

    This is my opinion, and my opinion only:

    The *real* ‘low IQ people’ or those who let the rabble in, whether they were genuinely convinced that the rabble would ‘boost’ the German economy, or they were lying through their teeth. In this respect, the title ‘The Economist’ must, inevitably, be cited.

    By contrast the ‘high IQ’ people are the rabble who conned and tricked their way in to lavish wealth, housing, health and welfare entitlements – transferrable to extended family back home – all provided gratis, by gullible fools, at absolutely zero cost to the rabble.

    An awful lot of guff has been written and spoken about IQ tests, Raven’s Matrices, international comparisons etc etc, but surely, this is the only IQ test that matters.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Anonymous


    this is the only IQ test that matters
     
    I'll grant that to a point, but some of this is evil people in charge of borders who are letting dingoes in to eat the babies; the dingoes are not going to keep the lights on.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  247. @Reg Cæsar

    What, you mean Syrian electricians aren’t up to German standards of not burning down the house?
     
    Are Syrian homes even flammable? These don't look especially so:


    How To Live Without Air Conditioning: Syrian Beehive Houses


    https://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/beehive.house2.jpg

    Fire doesn't seem to be the main threat, anyway. Well, "fire" of a different definition, maybe:


    https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2015/syriawhatsleft/images/11-Homs.jpg

    But these look pretty safe:



    http://muslimheritage.com/sites/default/files/courtyard_houses_05_0.jpg?slideshow=true&slideshowAuto=false&slideshowSpeed=4000&speed=350&transition=elastic

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5c/40/b5/5c40b574243457de12a3f7ba2275ba02.jpg

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e0/15/59/e0155942190855ad5b64c33030b31d30.jpg

    Replies: @Escher

    Too bad Obama and Hillary didn’t get a chance to host these refugees, as a reward for having made them refugees in the first place.

  248. eah says:
    @eah
    @eah

    https://twitter.com/Netzdenunziant/status/1116450102749605894

    Replies: @Mr. Anon, @eah

    So lebe ich mit drei Frauen und 13 Kindern –„Ich würde mich freuen, wenn ich Deutscher werden könnte“

    Syrian Abboud Sweid has 3 wives and 13 (soon 14) kids — he wants German citizenship — what sane country would not grant his request? — the Bild article is behind the ‘Bild+’ paywall — “LOL”

  249. @Lurker
    @Anonymous

    'Git' - you still hear it from time to time but I'm not sure young folks use it now. Glad to hear it's still seeing action in Oz

    Replies: @al anon

    I believe “Git” is an arabic word referring to the product of a camel miscarriage.

  250. @Alden
    Whoopee! One semi competent electrician apprentice who earns an apprentice wage. I wonder what will happen if he gets a woman journeyman assigned to teach him the practical work and be his boss. Or some woman customer doesn’t treat him with the respect due his Muslim manhood.

    And one volunteer foreman on complete welfare.

    Whoopee!!! Still, as in America, the cheap retail sector benefits from the ever expanding welfare population. What’s the German equivalent of our dollar stores?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Reg Cæsar

    What’s the German equivalent of our dollar stores?

    Der Mark Tannenbaum? No, I forgot about the new currency. Der EuroTrash?

  251. @Anonymous

    Ramadan, who serves as a volunteer firefighter in Hanover when he’s not brushing up on one of his five languages or teaching himself math or physics online, acknowledges that he’s unusual among refugees.
     
    Who is supporting Ramadan? Does he have any income at all?

    Replies: @Alden, @bomag

    …brushing up on one of his five languages or teaching himself math or physics online

    Sounds like an LOL moment, telling the reporter something he wants to hear.

    Refugee types are famous for this; another of the many reasons not to let them in.

  252. @Anonymous
    @Dieter Kief

    This is my opinion, and my opinion only:

    The *real* 'low IQ people' or those who let the rabble in, whether they were genuinely convinced that the rabble would 'boost' the German economy, or they were lying through their teeth. In this respect, the title 'The Economist' must, inevitably, be cited.

    By contrast the 'high IQ' people are the rabble who conned and tricked their way in to lavish wealth, housing, health and welfare entitlements - transferrable to extended family back home - all provided gratis, by gullible fools, at absolutely zero cost to the rabble.

    An awful lot of guff has been written and spoken about IQ tests, Raven's Matrices, international comparisons etc etc, but surely, this is the only IQ test that matters.

    Replies: @bomag

    this is the only IQ test that matters

    I’ll grant that to a point, but some of this is evil people in charge of borders who are letting dingoes in to eat the babies; the dingoes are not going to keep the lights on.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @bomag


    I’ll grant that to a point, but some of this is evil people in charge of borders who are letting dingoes in to eat the babies; the dingoes are not going to keep the lights on.
     
    Motel 666.
  253. @Anonymous
    @Redneck farmer

    There's a thing called the Shelkey Rule, named after a farmer named Shelkey.

    This states it's better to take a big loss than a total loss, but better to take a total loss over a really big one, lest the market become spoiled and your future prices reduced forever.

    Shelkey had a crop of something and the national price was down, but in his area especially so and the buyers tried to take advantage of the situation. Shelkey fed what he could of his bumper crops to the pigs, canned a bunch, then piled the rest into a pile and burned the lot.

    He had zero income that year, but because he was a tightfisted bastard with no debt could survive.
    The next year the buyers didn't fuck with him. Of course, he also didn't plant as much and grew some other crops besides.

    Shelkey was also infamous for crushing his used trucks because he got tired of the junkyard wanting to pay him $50 for a junk truck and charging $100 for the first part he tried to buy back from them. He'd pour sand in the engine and transmission, riddle the cab with a few well placed Weatherby rounds, bust all the glass, then get a friend to squash them with a dozer and then call the yard to haul them off for free.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Achmed E. Newman

    When you look in the dictionary at “cutting off your nose to spite your face” there’s a picture of Shelkey. The only one he hurt was himself. The market doesn’t care whether you burn your crops or smash your old trucks. You can’t “teach buyers a lesson” as an individual seller with no market power. You might as well try to bail out the ocean with a teacup.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
    @Jack D

    Well, as I just wrote about it, Jack, it sure can make you feel better. It's not true that you can't teach the other side a lesson either, though maybe in a commodity business.

  254. @Anonymous
    @Redneck farmer

    There's a thing called the Shelkey Rule, named after a farmer named Shelkey.

    This states it's better to take a big loss than a total loss, but better to take a total loss over a really big one, lest the market become spoiled and your future prices reduced forever.

    Shelkey had a crop of something and the national price was down, but in his area especially so and the buyers tried to take advantage of the situation. Shelkey fed what he could of his bumper crops to the pigs, canned a bunch, then piled the rest into a pile and burned the lot.

    He had zero income that year, but because he was a tightfisted bastard with no debt could survive.
    The next year the buyers didn't fuck with him. Of course, he also didn't plant as much and grew some other crops besides.

    Shelkey was also infamous for crushing his used trucks because he got tired of the junkyard wanting to pay him $50 for a junk truck and charging $100 for the first part he tried to buy back from them. He'd pour sand in the engine and transmission, riddle the cab with a few well placed Weatherby rounds, bust all the glass, then get a friend to squash them with a dozer and then call the yard to haul them off for free.

    Replies: @Jack D, @Achmed E. Newman

    I don’t know this guy Shelkey, but I really like him! I also would rather take a loss sometimes than get just plain ripped off. I’ve left 4 record albums on the median of the street before rather than let them go for 25 cents apiece to the used-record store owner. Unfortunately, one of them was KIZZ – Destroyer. Damn!

  255. @Jack D
    @Anonymous

    When you look in the dictionary at "cutting off your nose to spite your face" there's a picture of Shelkey. The only one he hurt was himself. The market doesn't care whether you burn your crops or smash your old trucks. You can't "teach buyers a lesson" as an individual seller with no market power. You might as well try to bail out the ocean with a teacup.

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman

    Well, as I just wrote about it, Jack, it sure can make you feel better. It’s not true that you can’t teach the other side a lesson either, though maybe in a commodity business.

  256. @BigDickNick
    @prime noticer

    Our efforts to start a somali space program have likewise been a total clusterfuck!

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Reg Cæsar

    The Somalians are doing it wrong then, that’s all. Ken Burns (or a facsimile thereof”s) documentary below begs to differ, Mr. Nick:

    I’ve seen this 3 times and never LOLed at that line near the beginning before: “It was a different time, you understand … See, in 1957, if you were black .. and if you were an astronaut … you were out of work.” So matter-of-factly.

  257. @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    German isn't that tough, my own lack of progress in it is my own fault, not putting in the time.
    It's fun actually, but has a lot of annoying long words.

    I learned vacuum tube electronics from German books, transliterating along the way, and can actually pretty well decipher the following:



    Ein Röhrenverstärker arbeitet mit lebensgefährlichen Anodenspannungen! Für den Nachbau der hier beschriebenen Geräte sind fundierte Kenntnisse der Elektronik und der elektrischen Sicherheit unbedingt erforderlich!!

    ___________________________________________________________________

    Auf dieser Seite werde ich Verstärker - Schaltungen - zum Nachbauen - vorstellen. Und, natürlich - werden es Röhrenverstärker sein, was denn auch sonst..?
    Es werden unter anderem einfache (will sagen : einfach nachzubauende) Mono- und Stereo-Verstärker mit kleinen, großen und größten Leistungen beschrieben, ebenfalls Vorverstärkerstufen mit Eingangsmischstufen für den Anschluß von Radio, Plattenspieler, CD-Player, Minidisk.. - mit aktiver Klangregelung und Loudness- Schalter.. - mit Wickeldaten für Netztransformatoren, für Ausgangsübertrager... und so weiter.

    Das oben abgebildete Foto ist ein Röhrenverstärker der Spitzenklasse, Hersteller J.C.Verdier aus Frankreich, ein 2 x 20-Watt-Vollverstärker.

    Hinweis : Die hier abgebildeten Verstärkerschaltungen sind überwiegend Schaltungen aus den frühen Röhrentagen, meist jedoch aus den 50er bis in die 60er Jahre. Der zu diesem Zeitpunkt geprägte Begriff " Hi-Fi", nach DIN 45500, entspricht (nicht unbedingt...) unseren heutigen Hi-Fi-Erwartungen. Zur damaligen Zeit galt fast alles, was lärmte, mehr als 5 Watt Leistung abgab bei unter 1 % Klirrfaktor und einen Frequenzgang von 40 - 12500 Hz (+ / - 3 dB) vorwies, als "Hi - Fi". ;-)

    Hinweis : Ich bin nicht fehlerfrei, wie keiner von uns .. - Deshalb : alle Angaben, sämtliche Daten die ich hier mache, - zu den Verstärkern und zu den dafür benötigten Transformatoren (wie z.B. die Wickeldaten) - sind von mir nach meinem besten Wissen und Gewissen recherchiert und berechnet worden, sie sind aber, natürlich, ohne Gewähr !

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Ein Bekannter von mir, der Namentlich ungenannt bleiben möchte, sandte mir die folgende hochinteressante Beschreibung eines OTL-Verstärkers zu, mit gleich 8 x 6AS7G. Die gesamte Beschreibung ist als Baubeschreibung ausgelegt.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Helmut Becker, Inhaber der Fa. Audiovalve, gab mir seine Erlaubnis, den von ihm entwickelten und in einer Elrad-Zeitschrift veröffentlichten PCL 805-Kopfhörer-Amp hier zu vorzustellen. Ein Amp, der weltweit grosse Beachtung fand!

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Einen EL 84-Gegentakt-Verstärker aus der DDR, den VEB MV 3 von den Klingenthaler Harmonikawerken, DDR zeigt dieser Link.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Hier gehts zu einer Seite, die den Bau eines hochwertigen Ultralinearen HiFi-Gegentaktübertragers für 2 x EL 84 beschreibt.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Einen Triodenverstärker kleiner Leistung (ca. 6 Watt), ideal als Treiber für Alnico- u.a. LS mit hohem Wirkungsgrad ist der 6C19-Triodenamp.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Auf der Seite Leser-Projekte stellte ich Ernst Rössler's Verstärker vor, eine nach Grommes angelehnte Schaltung mit der EL 34 / 6L6 / KT 88 als Endstufe. Ich bat Ernst, für meine Verstärkerseite und, vor allem, für die GU 50 - Begeisterten, diese Schaltung mitamt Platine für die GU 50 anzupassen. - Herausgekommen ist ein Verstärker, der nicht nur mich begeistert... - es ist der Grommes-GU 50-Amp von Ernst Rössler !

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Auf dieser Seite stelle ich meinen Neuerwerb, den 6L6-Amp vom Klaus, vor. Ein toller Amp, der nicht nur mich sondern bisher alle meine Besucher begeisterte, wie beispielsweise Carsten (carawu) und Kay (kaspie)...

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Im folgend beschriebenen Link wird der Bau eines zweistufigen NF-Verstärkers zu Übungs- und Testzwecken mit der EL84 beschrieben. Hierin versuche ich auf leicht verständliche Art den Aufbau eines kleinen, leistungsfähigen und sogar hervorragend "klingenden" Verstärkers auch dem Neuling auf diesem Gebiet nahe zu bringen. Ich versuche, es Ihm leicht zu machen diesen schnell und garantiert funktionierend nachzubauen - sofern Er sich an die vorgegebenen Angaben und Zeichnungen hält...)

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Vom Stephan erhielt ich eine rieige Menge Funkschau-Schaltungen - eine davon ist der Vorverstärker S 59 A von Revox. Eine im einzelnen hochinteressante Schaltung - aber selbstverständlich auch die Gesamtschaltung ist hochinteressant.
    - Danke, Stephan!

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Der Röhrenhersteller SEL - Standard Elektrik Lorenz - entwickelt damals eine hervorragende Schaltung zur ECLL800, ebenfalls entwickelte sie einen hervorragenden Übertrager dazu. Dieser Übertrager wurde im übrigen der "Urvater", er wurde zum Standard der meisten Übertrager. Der Franzis-Verlag hatte es sich einiges kosten lassen damals, diese Schaltung in seinen Büchern veröffentlichen zu können - die SEL-Leute zierten sich besonders wegen den Übertrager-Wickeldaten...

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Vom Rainer Fredel, Dipl.-Ing. und Inhaber einer hervorragend ausgestatteten Werkstatt in Bonn, erhielt ich vor einiger Zeit die nachfolgenden Fotos, mitsamt Schaltbild und einer kurzen Beschreibung eines uralten Kinoverstärkers Namens V12 der Fa. MWL – Radio in Lensahn / Ostfriesland. Ein interessantes Gerät!
     

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Old Palo Altan

    transliterating

    I think you mean translating. There’s nothing to transliterate from German to English, except Ä, Ö, Ü, and ß.

  258. @BigDickNick
    @prime noticer

    Our efforts to start a somali space program have likewise been a total clusterfuck!

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Reg Cæsar

    Our efforts to start a somali space program have likewise been a total clusterfuck!

    Somalia might just be the best site in the world for a space program, and possibly for an observatory as well. If you could guarantee their safety. And transport the rockets there.

    The EU uses French Guiana for their launches. Where do Chinese rockets launch from?

    • Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager
    @Reg Cæsar


    Somalia might just be the best site in the world for a space program
     
    Because who needs even the most rudimentary infrastructure to operate a space program? Just tie the rocket to a tree and light the fuse!
  259. @Alden
    Whoopee! One semi competent electrician apprentice who earns an apprentice wage. I wonder what will happen if he gets a woman journeyman assigned to teach him the practical work and be his boss. Or some woman customer doesn’t treat him with the respect due his Muslim manhood.

    And one volunteer foreman on complete welfare.

    Whoopee!!! Still, as in America, the cheap retail sector benefits from the ever expanding welfare population. What’s the German equivalent of our dollar stores?

    Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Reg Cæsar

    What’s the German equivalent of our dollar stores?

    Aldi’s and Lidl essentially are dollar stores, concentrating on food.

    Here are Aldi’s US locations:

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    Aldi and Lidl are discount retailers but that's not quite the same thing as a dollar store. There are many items in Aldi and Lidl that sell for considerably more than $1 (and some that sell for even less).

    The 1 Euro Shop format exists in Germany as well.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  260. @Desiderius
    @Joe Schmoe

    Art Deco used to correct me all the time like Jack D does now until he learned to limit it to cases where he was sure he knew what he was talking about. I’ve gained some valuable knowledge from AD since. I have similar hopes for Jack.

    Replies: @William Badwhite

    I’ve gained some valuable knowledge from AD since.

    Really? Based on your (hopefully serious) comment, I’ll think about taking AD off the “commenters to ignore” list

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @William Badwhite

    He actually complimented someone yesterday. He’s been blowing the Turing Test out of the water.

  261. @Reg Cæsar
    @Alden


    What’s the German equivalent of our dollar stores?
     
    Aldi's and Lidl essentially are dollar stores, concentrating on food.

    Here are Aldi's US locations:


    https://3yto781rontw1cnnh83813kx-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/aldi_store_map_usa-1024x566.png

    Replies: @Jack D

    Aldi and Lidl are discount retailers but that’s not quite the same thing as a dollar store. There are many items in Aldi and Lidl that sell for considerably more than $1 (and some that sell for even less).

    The 1 Euro Shop format exists in Germany as well.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Jack D

    Dollar General and Family Dollar also sell things at multiples of a dollar. By your definition, only Dollar Tree would count.

  262. @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    Aldi and Lidl are discount retailers but that's not quite the same thing as a dollar store. There are many items in Aldi and Lidl that sell for considerably more than $1 (and some that sell for even less).

    The 1 Euro Shop format exists in Germany as well.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Dollar General and Family Dollar also sell things at multiples of a dollar. By your definition, only Dollar Tree would count.

  263. @bomag
    @Anonymous


    this is the only IQ test that matters
     
    I'll grant that to a point, but some of this is evil people in charge of borders who are letting dingoes in to eat the babies; the dingoes are not going to keep the lights on.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    I’ll grant that to a point, but some of this is evil people in charge of borders who are letting dingoes in to eat the babies; the dingoes are not going to keep the lights on.

    Motel 666.

  264. @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    German isn't that tough, my own lack of progress in it is my own fault, not putting in the time.
    It's fun actually, but has a lot of annoying long words.

    I learned vacuum tube electronics from German books, transliterating along the way, and can actually pretty well decipher the following:



    Ein Röhrenverstärker arbeitet mit lebensgefährlichen Anodenspannungen! Für den Nachbau der hier beschriebenen Geräte sind fundierte Kenntnisse der Elektronik und der elektrischen Sicherheit unbedingt erforderlich!!

    ___________________________________________________________________

    Auf dieser Seite werde ich Verstärker - Schaltungen - zum Nachbauen - vorstellen. Und, natürlich - werden es Röhrenverstärker sein, was denn auch sonst..?
    Es werden unter anderem einfache (will sagen : einfach nachzubauende) Mono- und Stereo-Verstärker mit kleinen, großen und größten Leistungen beschrieben, ebenfalls Vorverstärkerstufen mit Eingangsmischstufen für den Anschluß von Radio, Plattenspieler, CD-Player, Minidisk.. - mit aktiver Klangregelung und Loudness- Schalter.. - mit Wickeldaten für Netztransformatoren, für Ausgangsübertrager... und so weiter.

    Das oben abgebildete Foto ist ein Röhrenverstärker der Spitzenklasse, Hersteller J.C.Verdier aus Frankreich, ein 2 x 20-Watt-Vollverstärker.

    Hinweis : Die hier abgebildeten Verstärkerschaltungen sind überwiegend Schaltungen aus den frühen Röhrentagen, meist jedoch aus den 50er bis in die 60er Jahre. Der zu diesem Zeitpunkt geprägte Begriff " Hi-Fi", nach DIN 45500, entspricht (nicht unbedingt...) unseren heutigen Hi-Fi-Erwartungen. Zur damaligen Zeit galt fast alles, was lärmte, mehr als 5 Watt Leistung abgab bei unter 1 % Klirrfaktor und einen Frequenzgang von 40 - 12500 Hz (+ / - 3 dB) vorwies, als "Hi - Fi". ;-)

    Hinweis : Ich bin nicht fehlerfrei, wie keiner von uns .. - Deshalb : alle Angaben, sämtliche Daten die ich hier mache, - zu den Verstärkern und zu den dafür benötigten Transformatoren (wie z.B. die Wickeldaten) - sind von mir nach meinem besten Wissen und Gewissen recherchiert und berechnet worden, sie sind aber, natürlich, ohne Gewähr !

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Ein Bekannter von mir, der Namentlich ungenannt bleiben möchte, sandte mir die folgende hochinteressante Beschreibung eines OTL-Verstärkers zu, mit gleich 8 x 6AS7G. Die gesamte Beschreibung ist als Baubeschreibung ausgelegt.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Helmut Becker, Inhaber der Fa. Audiovalve, gab mir seine Erlaubnis, den von ihm entwickelten und in einer Elrad-Zeitschrift veröffentlichten PCL 805-Kopfhörer-Amp hier zu vorzustellen. Ein Amp, der weltweit grosse Beachtung fand!

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Einen EL 84-Gegentakt-Verstärker aus der DDR, den VEB MV 3 von den Klingenthaler Harmonikawerken, DDR zeigt dieser Link.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Hier gehts zu einer Seite, die den Bau eines hochwertigen Ultralinearen HiFi-Gegentaktübertragers für 2 x EL 84 beschreibt.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Einen Triodenverstärker kleiner Leistung (ca. 6 Watt), ideal als Treiber für Alnico- u.a. LS mit hohem Wirkungsgrad ist der 6C19-Triodenamp.

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Auf der Seite Leser-Projekte stellte ich Ernst Rössler's Verstärker vor, eine nach Grommes angelehnte Schaltung mit der EL 34 / 6L6 / KT 88 als Endstufe. Ich bat Ernst, für meine Verstärkerseite und, vor allem, für die GU 50 - Begeisterten, diese Schaltung mitamt Platine für die GU 50 anzupassen. - Herausgekommen ist ein Verstärker, der nicht nur mich begeistert... - es ist der Grommes-GU 50-Amp von Ernst Rössler !

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Auf dieser Seite stelle ich meinen Neuerwerb, den 6L6-Amp vom Klaus, vor. Ein toller Amp, der nicht nur mich sondern bisher alle meine Besucher begeisterte, wie beispielsweise Carsten (carawu) und Kay (kaspie)...

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Im folgend beschriebenen Link wird der Bau eines zweistufigen NF-Verstärkers zu Übungs- und Testzwecken mit der EL84 beschrieben. Hierin versuche ich auf leicht verständliche Art den Aufbau eines kleinen, leistungsfähigen und sogar hervorragend "klingenden" Verstärkers auch dem Neuling auf diesem Gebiet nahe zu bringen. Ich versuche, es Ihm leicht zu machen diesen schnell und garantiert funktionierend nachzubauen - sofern Er sich an die vorgegebenen Angaben und Zeichnungen hält...)

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Vom Stephan erhielt ich eine rieige Menge Funkschau-Schaltungen - eine davon ist der Vorverstärker S 59 A von Revox. Eine im einzelnen hochinteressante Schaltung - aber selbstverständlich auch die Gesamtschaltung ist hochinteressant.
    - Danke, Stephan!

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Der Röhrenhersteller SEL - Standard Elektrik Lorenz - entwickelt damals eine hervorragende Schaltung zur ECLL800, ebenfalls entwickelte sie einen hervorragenden Übertrager dazu. Dieser Übertrager wurde im übrigen der "Urvater", er wurde zum Standard der meisten Übertrager. Der Franzis-Verlag hatte es sich einiges kosten lassen damals, diese Schaltung in seinen Büchern veröffentlichen zu können - die SEL-Leute zierten sich besonders wegen den Übertrager-Wickeldaten...

    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

    Vom Rainer Fredel, Dipl.-Ing. und Inhaber einer hervorragend ausgestatteten Werkstatt in Bonn, erhielt ich vor einiger Zeit die nachfolgenden Fotos, mitsamt Schaltbild und einer kurzen Beschreibung eines uralten Kinoverstärkers Namens V12 der Fa. MWL – Radio in Lensahn / Ostfriesland. Ein interessantes Gerät!
     

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Old Palo Altan

    Easy, but you meant “riesige” where you typed “rieige” .

    And everything else about your subject is no more interesting than that. German is a whole lot more than instructions and enthusiastic comments about bits of machinery.

    Try Kant, Hegel, or Heidegger.

    Or, if that’s too hard (and it will be), there’s always Goethe, Schiller, or Mann.

  265. @William Badwhite
    @Desiderius


    I’ve gained some valuable knowledge from AD since.
     
    Really? Based on your (hopefully serious) comment, I'll think about taking AD off the "commenters to ignore" list

    Replies: @Desiderius

    He actually complimented someone yesterday. He’s been blowing the Turing Test out of the water.

  266. @Jack D
    @Reg Cæsar

    I didn't say it was a good idea, just that the idea that employers are just "lying" and could find an unlimited amount of American born workers if they really wanted to, is not true either. And it's not just a question of price (although price is a big consideration). For certain jobs it's doubtful you could find enough qualified American born labor at virtually any price. But just because a "labor shortage" exists doesn't mean that it is the government's obligation to let in more immigrants. A labor shortage maybe hurts industry but it helps labor and other things.

    Replies: @istevefan, @Reg Cæsar, @Achmed E. Newman, @nebulafox, @Oleaginous Outrager

    just that the idea that employers are just “lying” and could find an unlimited amount of American born workers if they really wanted to, is not true either

    When it comes to IT and the H1B hordes, there’s an absolute, nailed-on, ironclad guarantee that it’s a lie.

  267. @Reg Cæsar
    @BigDickNick


    Our efforts to start a somali space program have likewise been a total clusterfuck!
     
    Somalia might just be the best site in the world for a space program, and possibly for an observatory as well. If you could guarantee their safety. And transport the rockets there.

    The EU uses French Guiana for their launches. Where do Chinese rockets launch from?

    Replies: @Oleaginous Outrager

    Somalia might just be the best site in the world for a space program

    Because who needs even the most rudimentary infrastructure to operate a space program? Just tie the rocket to a tree and light the fuse!

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