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Scientists have grave-robbed 442 Viking skeletons to scan their DNA. (There are a gazillion known Viking burial sites.) Vikings turn out to be … pretty much modern Scandinavians, although slightly less blond due to continuing selection for fairness since the Iron Age. Danes went to England, Swedes to the Eastern Baltic, Norwegians to Ireland, Iceland, and Greenland. From Nature:
Published: 16 September 2020
Population genomics of the Viking world
Ashot Margaryan, Daniel J. Lawson, […]Eske Willerslev
Nature volume 585, pages 390–396(2020)Cite this articleAbstract
The maritime expansion of Scandinavian populations during the Viking Age (about AD 750–1050) was a far-flung transformation in world history. Here we sequenced the genomes of 442 humans from archaeological sites across Europe and Greenland (to a median depth of about 1×) to understand the global influence of this expansion. We find the Viking period involved gene flow into Scandinavia from the south and east. We observe genetic structure within Scandinavia, with diversity hotspots in the south and restricted gene flow within Scandinavia. We find evidence for a major influx of Danish ancestry into England; a Swedish influx into the Baltic; and Norwegian influx into Ireland, Iceland and Greenland. Additionally, we see substantial ancestry from elsewhere in Europe entering Scandinavia during the Viking Age. Our ancient DNA analysis also revealed that a Viking expedition included close family members. By comparing with modern populations, we find that pigmentation-associated loci have undergone strong population differentiation during the past millennium, and trace positively selected loci—including the lactase-persistence allele of LCT and alleles of ANKA that are associated with the immune response—in detail. We conclude that the Viking diaspora was characterized by substantial transregional engagement: distinct populations influenced the genomic makeup of different regions of Europe, and Scandinavia experienced increased contact with the rest of the continent.
Here’s Razib’s take.
English
Arabic
Chinese (Simplified)
Dutch
French
German
Hebrew
Hindi
Italian
Japanese
Korean
Persian
Polish
Portuguese
Russian
Spanish
Swedish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Razib Khan, who himself is a rather dark skinned Bangladeshi individual, seems to have a very strong conscious or unconscious animus against ‘white skin alleles’, most likely because of the astounding Sintashta/Andronovo revelations about the founding of the Aryan stock.
Once you get past his characteristic over wrought verbosity it becomes quite clear.
Token brown and black 'experts' often use academic certifications to troll people who are clearly superior to their own groups. See rebuttals to Razib's 2003 post on the Gene Expression blog titled English as "pure Germans"?.
The same apllies to Chanda Chisala and his preposterous propositions.
That's an apt description of his diction. Reading through his writings I wonder why he can't just convey his thoughts in an unassuming manner, like Michael Shermer, Richard Dawkins or John Hawks.
Presumably, as Scandinavians transitioned to agriculture from hunting and gathering they had an increasing need for Vitamin D, which while abundant in fish and meat is completely absent in wheat and potatoes. Furthermore, living inside a fixed structure, be it a rural cottage or city apartment, means that you spend most of your time indoors, whereas hunter-gatherers would be outdoors most of the day. The development of settled and urban communities meant indoor living. These things together drove the development of pale skin and hair.
Notably, northern European children tend to be blond and grow brunette with age because Vitamin D is more important in childhood when your bones are still growing. Additionally children tend to be cared for their mothers indoors.
There was probably strong selective pressure for blondness all the way up the widespread adoption of vitamin D fortification processes, which was very recent.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunet
Christine Jørgensen went the other way-- from brunet to blonde.https://media.wired.com/photos/5933bb1bd80dd005b42b32d0/2:1/w_2500,c_limit/christine_jorgensen_630px.jpg
He has not commented on this paper yet.The last explanation standing is the one suggested by ... er, Darwin. Or maybe you think that African men have a completely different idea of what is sexually attractive in a woman. In polygyny, the focus (sexual selection only works in one direction so the non-selected sex is going to be skewed to the norms selected in the sex under selection) is going to be different. There cannot be selection among the sex that all get married because when women can not only provide for themselves themselves (as in female hoe farming) having multiple wives become becomes a source of wealth.
My personal take on is to imagine a bunch of murdering, raping evil bastard invaders turning up and killing all the native men in Europe 5000 years ago; the women would all get mated yes, however to pass on their genes they would need to get a position as official wife to a warrior of substance. Sure, they would get burnt alive at their husband's funeral but the children would have position in society. Darwin and Gimbutas understood the whole thing. Pale skin is not sexy, it is more to elicit care and provisioning. In my opinion red hair (which requires a lot more genes than previously thought) is probably a side effect of selection for very white skin. The stereotype of porn star is a tanned blonde.
I did.
children tend to be cared for their mothers indoors
As babies, yes, though in the summer babies mighty be put outdoors in their prams: I've seen photos of a little blond me taking the air in my pram. Presumably medieval people had some equivalent way of safely parking a baby outside.
Once we were self-propelled we spent a great deal of time outdoors, at least in the warmer months and in the dry weather in the colder months. I dare say that would be true of our ancestors too.
On a wet day when the sun would nearly vanish by the back of 4 p.m., it's true we would be indoors virtually all day, save for going back and forward to school, and playing football and rugby.
2nd funny thing about my fair-skinned Finnish guys: they are uncircumcised- my decision, at the hospital....it is not my culture to violate a baby.
They were mercilessly teased (showers in HS) for being uncircumcised, and, they survived HS! hahhahahahhahaaaaaa. They were great athletes and smart asses, smart/foul mouthed like their mother, so they were ok. They survived the most crucial years of "punishment" which has wrecked so many people.
I think that world history, especially now, because so many young people do not know history, US & World, duh, is lost on them because they never got over being rejected and ridiculed in HS or MS.
https://www.unz.com/akarlin/strength/
Interesting that you used the phrase ‘grave-robbed’, Steve.
Just minutes before seeing this post, I was listening to a Tides of History podcast about ancient Native Americans, and the studies of their DNA/genomes.
The host and his interviewee spent almost one-third of the podcast’s time stressing, and re-stressing, and restating, and re-emphaszing how utterly crucial, necessary, virtuous, and just plain righteous it was for paleoarcheologists and other scientists to never, ever, under no circumstances, in any way, ever ever ever dig up and analyze the bones of ancient Native Americans without the express permission, in writing, from the Commissioner of All The Native Tribes in America, or something like that.
They went on and on about what an atrocity the ‘Kenniwick Man’ case was: if you don’t recall this, about 20 years ago a 10,000-year-old guy who looked like Captain Picard was found on the banks of the Columbia River in WA. Scientists wanted to study him, but Native American tribes in the area insisted that he was their close kin, and that only immediate reburial would suffice to honor the terms and conditions of their respect for their elders/ancestors. The case went to litigation, and the scientists lost.
Even more pertinently, one of the authors of the Viking article, Eske Willerslev, was interviewed on an earlier episode of Tides of History. He was interesting, but super-woke. He also preached extensively on the need to respect tribal sensitivities, ancestor-honoring, etc. But I don’t see anything in the article even raising this as an issue.
So hey, I wonder who got asked if it was okay to dig up the Vikings? I’m plenty northern European by ancestry, and nobody asked me.
I would actually like to hear them try to articulate the reasoning. At the end of the day it would have to come down to: "Hey, some people claim it makes them upset for irrational reasons, and we want to avoid making those people upset."
But what if some group of people sincerely believes that looking at the bones of any dead humans is deeply offensive? Do their objections make all worldwide archeology unethical? Why do only people with similar DNA have special standing to raise ethical concerns?Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist, @Colin Wright
Are Vikings and Scandinavians Germanic?
One must not confuse language and race. The core of English is also Germanic even though the speaker may be more of a Celt than an Anglo-Saxon.Replies: @Juvenalis
Totally off topic, so I have to apologize but perhaps of interest. Perhaps this is something that everyone already knows.
This is from the comment thread of Design Mom. A post about how people who read her material on design should not support Trump. A sample of what she said. But look later at what is in the comments.
Later in the comments.
KIMBERLYAugust 28, 2020 at 4:02 pmREPLY
I’m very ANTI-trump but I do want to bring up one thing about this post that worries me. I watch YouTube clips of Fox News or Ben Shapiro from time to time (and am often recommended them on the site) to make sure I really see the narrative being pushed. I want to say and feel I heard both side of the argument. I’ve come away time after time feeling as strongly angry as ever but I wonder if Instagram or YouTube would label me pro-trump? I think that’s the danger in trusting those analytics?
KATEAugust 28, 2020 at 5:30 pmREPLY
My husband works in the field, and my understanding is the analytics are VERY sophisticated and would not peg you as a trump voter just from that. I think.
MEGHAN JOSEPHAugust 28, 2020 at 7:21 pmREPLY
YES! Thank you!
ANNABELLEAugust 28, 2020 at 8:11 pmREPLY
I was hanging on every word.
I loved this and I needed it.
KIMBERLYAugust 28, 2020 at 8:39 pmREPLY
Thank you, that’s great to hear from someone who understands how these things work! I still do worry about those analytics being used against someone, it’s so complicated. I recently quit Facebook because I couldn’t emotionally handle the pro-trump rhetoric from people I know personally and care for. It’s just such a sad state of things and I’m so distraught.
KATEAugust 30, 2020 at 12:11 pmREPLY
So I did check! The “prediction” models are based on an aggregate of your activity across a platform. So for example, google prediction model is based on all activity on youtube, google search platform, and gmail activity, mainly. So if your conservative viewing is a small fraction of activity across those platforms it wouldn’t affect your “score” too heavily. If it was a company creating a prediction based on the apps on your phone, then each ap would weigh on your score. (so if you had Fox News, bass pro, wsj and bo hunting range, your score would be much more conservative than someone with ny times, recycled!, period tracker and Fox News) Anyway, hope that sheds a little light on it. Most scores or political rating are a number on a scale, not a binary red or blue and to receive a heavy “conservative” label you would have to be doing LOTS of things that pointed to that lifestyle.
It's unfortunate that back in the 19th century that there weren't some who didn't successfully separate themselves in the US from the self declared 'progressive'/'enlightened' sort. Due to the progs greed, slavery (first chattel, then wage, ie so called 'cheap labor'), hatreds, paranoia, and empire building, they would have largely destroyed themselves by now, just as they've done and are doing, but there would be a much better situated remnant left to work with.
Well, there's the Amish.
Notably, northern European children tend to be blond and grow brunette with age because Vitamin D is more important in childhood when your bones are still growing. Additionally children tend to be cared for their mothers indoors.
There was probably strong selective pressure for blondness all the way up the widespread adoption of vitamin D fortification processes, which was very recent.Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Mactoul, @Sean, @dearieme, @J1234, @Lagertha
I sure hope the blond boys aren’t turning into brunettes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brunet
Christine Jørgensen went the other way– from brunet to blonde.
Just minutes before seeing this post, I was listening to a Tides of History podcast about ancient Native Americans, and the studies of their DNA/genomes.
The host and his interviewee spent almost one-third of the podcast's time stressing, and re-stressing, and restating, and re-emphaszing how utterly crucial, necessary, virtuous, and just plain righteous it was for paleoarcheologists and other scientists to never, ever, under no circumstances, in any way, ever ever ever dig up and analyze the bones of ancient Native Americans without the express permission, in writing, from the Commissioner of All The Native Tribes in America, or something like that.
They went on and on about what an atrocity the 'Kenniwick Man' case was: if you don't recall this, about 20 years ago a 10,000-year-old guy who looked like Captain Picard was found on the banks of the Columbia River in WA. Scientists wanted to study him, but Native American tribes in the area insisted that he was their close kin, and that only immediate reburial would suffice to honor the terms and conditions of their respect for their elders/ancestors. The case went to litigation, and the scientists lost.
Even more pertinently, one of the authors of the Viking article, Eske Willerslev, was interviewed on an earlier episode of Tides of History. He was interesting, but super-woke. He also preached extensively on the need to respect tribal sensitivities, ancestor-honoring, etc. But I don't see anything in the article even raising this as an issue.
So hey, I wonder who got asked if it was okay to dig up the Vikings? I'm plenty northern European by ancestry, and nobody asked me.Replies: @Cortes, @Hypnotoad666, @Skylark Thibedeau
As Kirk Douglas would say, “By Grabthar’s Hammer, this shall not stand!”
Yep.
Did you catch the part about free-riding Picts?
So, it turns out The Vikings were actually not your father’s Vikings. Seriously, do we really need to feminise history?
source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8739755/Not-Vikings-Scandinavian-Picts.html
Just minutes before seeing this post, I was listening to a Tides of History podcast about ancient Native Americans, and the studies of their DNA/genomes.
The host and his interviewee spent almost one-third of the podcast's time stressing, and re-stressing, and restating, and re-emphaszing how utterly crucial, necessary, virtuous, and just plain righteous it was for paleoarcheologists and other scientists to never, ever, under no circumstances, in any way, ever ever ever dig up and analyze the bones of ancient Native Americans without the express permission, in writing, from the Commissioner of All The Native Tribes in America, or something like that.
They went on and on about what an atrocity the 'Kenniwick Man' case was: if you don't recall this, about 20 years ago a 10,000-year-old guy who looked like Captain Picard was found on the banks of the Columbia River in WA. Scientists wanted to study him, but Native American tribes in the area insisted that he was their close kin, and that only immediate reburial would suffice to honor the terms and conditions of their respect for their elders/ancestors. The case went to litigation, and the scientists lost.
Even more pertinently, one of the authors of the Viking article, Eske Willerslev, was interviewed on an earlier episode of Tides of History. He was interesting, but super-woke. He also preached extensively on the need to respect tribal sensitivities, ancestor-honoring, etc. But I don't see anything in the article even raising this as an issue.
So hey, I wonder who got asked if it was okay to dig up the Vikings? I'm plenty northern European by ancestry, and nobody asked me.Replies: @Cortes, @Hypnotoad666, @Skylark Thibedeau
Did these scientists explain why it is so unethical to examine ancient bones without permission from modern people of roughly similar ethnicity?
I would actually like to hear them try to articulate the reasoning. At the end of the day it would have to come down to: “Hey, some people claim it makes them upset for irrational reasons, and we want to avoid making those people upset.”
But what if some group of people sincerely believes that looking at the bones of any dead humans is deeply offensive? Do their objections make all worldwide archeology unethical? Why do only people with similar DNA have special standing to raise ethical concerns?
The worst of it is that the modern Indians living in the region didn't have similar DNA to Kennewick Man. That was the whole point.
Even if one buys into the whole attempt to retrofit Kennewick man as an American Indian, Indians moved around a lot over the millennia. Whatever Indians were hanging out around Kennewick when dude died weren't the same Indians who are around there now.
One might as well take seriously modern Polish plumbers in Lancashire expressing outrage over the desecration of Angl0-Saxon burial mounds on the grounds that those are 'their' people. If the person in the burial mound appears to be Chinese, their argument only becomes less defensible.
Once you get past his characteristic over wrought verbosity it becomes quite clear.Replies: @Amerimutt Golems, @JMcG, @Chrisnonymous, @theo the kraut, @britishbrainsize, @Anonymous, @Bao Jiankang, @Anonymous, @greysquirrell
More recent events are just as relevant. During the Bangladeshi war of independence Pakistanis, who are taller and lighter in complexion, killed lots of people plus raped up to 400,000 women and girls.
Token brown and black ‘experts’ often use academic certifications to troll people who are clearly superior to their own groups. See rebuttals to Razib’s 2003 post on the Gene Expression blog titled English as “pure Germans”?.
The same apllies to Chanda Chisala and his preposterous propositions.
I would actually like to hear them try to articulate the reasoning. At the end of the day it would have to come down to: "Hey, some people claim it makes them upset for irrational reasons, and we want to avoid making those people upset."
But what if some group of people sincerely believes that looking at the bones of any dead humans is deeply offensive? Do their objections make all worldwide archeology unethical? Why do only people with similar DNA have special standing to raise ethical concerns?Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist, @Colin Wright
Of course; they’re taking as given that any tribal/non-white belief system is automatically valid and worthy of the utmost respect. But it doesn’t seem to occur to them that any such claims that might come from western cultures.
Notably, northern European children tend to be blond and grow brunette with age because Vitamin D is more important in childhood when your bones are still growing. Additionally children tend to be cared for their mothers indoors.
There was probably strong selective pressure for blondness all the way up the widespread adoption of vitamin D fortification processes, which was very recent.Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Mactoul, @Sean, @dearieme, @J1234, @Lagertha
It is not that wheat lacks vitamin-D but consumption of wheat interferes with vitamin-D metabolism hence greater quantity of vitamin-D is required.
And, as you say, certain individuals are invited to speak for entire tribes–races, even–by dint of random privilege, or DNA strands. Which is so strange because races don’t exist, and we’re increasingly unsure about DNA. Science! Which reminds me: ‘Sort-of-Scientific American’ has made a ton of noise about endorsing a candidate for president for like the first time ever. Somehow I don’t think it’ll be the last.
It’s too late for me, but censoring the science in ‘Sort-of-Scientific American’ may prevent a kid today from following the path. That for about as long as it takes him to search for the information (unknown and hidden from us old-timers) on his phone..
O/T
An overarching theme for genetic archeology in the coming decades will be dealing with the uncomfortable fact that the upper crust in advanced ancient civilizations descended from Indo-Europeans (or peripheral Anatolian chariot cultures).
So we will get questions like “Were the Vikings really Swedes?” and “Who were the early Brits?”
As opposed to asking, why are Egyptian mummies for thousands of years basically Indo-European / Anatolian muts, bearing no genetic resemblance to native Egyptians?
Or why are all of the early civilized Greeks (Minoans/Mycenaeans) basically the same? Why do Mycenaean remains have a substantial genetic overlap with Eastern Europeans?
I suspect at some point, an actual belief in Wakanda (or something comparable) will take root in order to justify that Blacks are capable of some sort of civilization. Something like Atlantis, which if it did exist, was probably also built by Indo-Europeans.
Notably, northern European children tend to be blond and grow brunette with age because Vitamin D is more important in childhood when your bones are still growing. Additionally children tend to be cared for their mothers indoors.
There was probably strong selective pressure for blondness all the way up the widespread adoption of vitamin D fortification processes, which was very recent.Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Mactoul, @Sean, @dearieme, @J1234, @Lagertha
You may want to look at Peter Frost’s posts on this subject.
He has not commented on this paper yet.
The last explanation standing is the one suggested by … er, Darwin. Or maybe you think that African men have a completely different idea of what is sexually attractive in a woman. In polygyny, the focus (sexual selection only works in one direction so the non-selected sex is going to be skewed to the norms selected in the sex under selection) is going to be different. There cannot be selection among the sex that all get married because when women can not only provide for themselves themselves (as in female hoe farming) having multiple wives become becomes a source of wealth.
My personal take on is to imagine a bunch of murdering, raping evil bastard invaders turning up and killing all the native men in Europe 5000 years ago; the women would all get mated yes, however to pass on their genes they would need to get a position as official wife to a warrior of substance. Sure, they would get burnt alive at their husband’s funeral but the children would have position in society. Darwin and Gimbutas understood the whole thing. Pale skin is not sexy, it is more to elicit care and provisioning. In my opinion red hair (which requires a lot more genes than previously thought) is probably a side effect of selection for very white skin. The stereotype of porn star is a tanned blonde.
Viking men and their ancestors have a higher percentage of Y DNA I1 than other European groups. It appears that the indigenous European men had Y DNA I1 and G, but were later conquered by the Indo-Europeans from Western Asia who tended to be R1a and R1b and those groups dominate Europe to this day. In a way, the Viking raids were merely the indigenous men getting some revenge.
Since my husband has haplogroup I1, it seems fair that we should be entitled to some reparations from the Indo-European hordes (AKA Aryans) for their mistreatment of his ancestors. Or something…
Once you get past his characteristic over wrought verbosity it becomes quite clear.Replies: @Amerimutt Golems, @JMcG, @Chrisnonymous, @theo the kraut, @britishbrainsize, @Anonymous, @Bao Jiankang, @Anonymous, @greysquirrell
I’ve never noticed him doing anything but letting the chips fall where they may.
Norwegians also went to Scotland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_the_Isles
Once you get past his characteristic over wrought verbosity it becomes quite clear.Replies: @Amerimutt Golems, @JMcG, @Chrisnonymous, @theo the kraut, @britishbrainsize, @Anonymous, @Bao Jiankang, @Anonymous, @greysquirrell
His blog posts are not so bad, although his recent book review of Yglesias for NRO was pretty terribly written. Good book reviews need to have a show and tell element. A critical book review that is basically just a vocabulary dump is only sensible to other people who have already read the book.
It’s more of the racism of low expectations. Northern Europeans have moved beyond superstitious ideas about corpses and burial grounds. Those who have values about the ex-quick are Badwhites, like Christians, so their ideas can be ignored. Non-whites who have such ideas are… non-whites, so their ideas must not be ignored. The outgroup is precious (in the most pejorative sense).
Notably, northern European children tend to be blond and grow brunette with age because Vitamin D is more important in childhood when your bones are still growing. Additionally children tend to be cared for their mothers indoors.
There was probably strong selective pressure for blondness all the way up the widespread adoption of vitamin D fortification processes, which was very recent.Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Mactoul, @Sean, @dearieme, @J1234, @Lagertha
northern European children tend to be blond and grow brunette with age
I did.
children tend to be cared for their mothers indoors
As babies, yes, though in the summer babies mighty be put outdoors in their prams: I’ve seen photos of a little blond me taking the air in my pram. Presumably medieval people had some equivalent way of safely parking a baby outside.
Once we were self-propelled we spent a great deal of time outdoors, at least in the warmer months and in the dry weather in the colder months. I dare say that would be true of our ancestors too.
On a wet day when the sun would nearly vanish by the back of 4 p.m., it’s true we would be indoors virtually all day, save for going back and forward to school, and playing football and rugby.
Once you get past his characteristic over wrought verbosity it becomes quite clear.Replies: @Amerimutt Golems, @JMcG, @Chrisnonymous, @theo the kraut, @britishbrainsize, @Anonymous, @Bao Jiankang, @Anonymous, @greysquirrell
Nonsense, he’s very sympathetic towards whites and their culture.
This varied alot. In the Hebrides and mainland Scotland and Ireland, West viking, the Norwegians were called the fair or white foreigners and the Danes the dark foreigners. ( Dubgaill and Finngaill respectively in gaelic )
Eventually after centuries occupation and intermarriage the people in the outer Hebrides would become so called Gall Gael or foreign gaels in descriptions.
Trump’s maternal ancestry is from these peoples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse%E2%80%93Gaels
Once you get past his characteristic over wrought verbosity it becomes quite clear.Replies: @Amerimutt Golems, @JMcG, @Chrisnonymous, @theo the kraut, @britishbrainsize, @Anonymous, @Bao Jiankang, @Anonymous, @greysquirrell
I never understood why white people get their panties wet for genes from asia,i see this interest from mostly people of certain island people,why no fascination for daddy basal R1B from Chad, Cameroon ,Northern Nigeria he he.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG
The oldest Haplogroup R1B was found in Europe and is dated 14 000 years.Haplogroup R1b (R-V88) was taken by a migration of Europeans into the Cameroons about 8000 years ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b#Origin_and_dispersal
Early human remains found to carry R1b include:
Villabruna 1 (individual I9030), a Western Hunter-Gatherer (WHG), found in an Epigravettian culture setting in the Cismon valley (modern Veneto, Italy), who lived circa 14000 BP and belonged to R1b1a.[9][10]Three genetic studies in 2015 gave support to the Kurgan hypothesis of Marija Gimbutas regarding the Proto-Indo-European homeland. According to those studies, haplogroups R1b-M269 and R1a, now the most common in Europe (R1a is also common in South Asia) would have expanded from the West Eurasian Steppe, along with the Indo-European languages; they also detected an autosomal component present in modern Europeans which was not present in Neolithic Europeans, which would have been introduced with paternal lineages R1b and R1a, as well as Indo-European languages.[3][4][5]Analysis of ancient Y-DNA from the remains from early Neolithic Central and North European Linear Pottery culture settlements have not yet found males belonging to haplogroup R1b-M269.[36][37] Olalde et al. (2017) trace the spread of haplogroup R1b-M269 in western Europe, particularly Britain, to the spread of the Beaker culture, with a sudden appearance of many R1b-M269 haplogroups in Western Europe ca. 5000–4500 years BP during the early Bronze Age.[38] In the 2016 Nature article "The genetic history of Ice Age Europe",.[39]D'Atanasio et al. (2018) propose that R1b-V88 originated in Europe about 12 000 years ago and crossed to North Africa by about 8000 years ago; it may formerly have been common in southern Europe, where it has since been replaced by waves of other haplogroups, leaving remnant subclades almost excusively in Sardinia. It first radiated within Africa likely between 7 and 8 000 years ago – at the same time as trans-Saharan expansions within the unrelated haplogroups E-M2 and A-M13 – possibly due to population growth allowed by humid conditions and the adoption of livestock herding in the Sahara. R1b-V1589, the main subclade within R1b-V88, underwent a further expansion around 5500 years ago, likely in the Lake Chad Basin region, from which some lines recrossed the Sahara to North Africa.[40] The DNA sequencing of ancient individuals provides strong evidence for this proposed model of North to South trans-saharan movement: The earliest basal R1b-V88 haplogroups are found in several Eastern European Hunter Gatherers close to 10 000 years ago. The haplogroup then seemingly further spread with the Neolithic Cardial Ware expansion, which established agriculture in the Western Mediterranean around 7500 BP: R1b-V88 haplogroups were identified in ancient Neolithic individuals in central Italy, Iberia and, at a particularly high frequency, in Sardinia.[41] A part of the branch leading to present-day African haplogroups (V2197) is already derived in some of these ancient Neolithic European individuals, providing further support for a North to South trans-saharan movement."Replies: @Sya Beerens
So, Vikings were less blond than today’s native Scandinavians but not black like Beethoven (see post above)? I’m shocked!
They speak Germanic languages which are so named because they resemble German.
One must not confuse language and race. The core of English is also Germanic even though the speaker may be more of a Celt than an Anglo-Saxon.
2/3 of English vocabulary comes from the Classical languages: ~60% from Latin, either directly or via some stage of French, and ~6% from Greek. (Another ~6% of English words come from other languages—including other Romance languages; the remaining ~4% of English words are derived from proper names).
But Celtic languages may have influenced some less obvious elements of English grammar and syntax. Celtic influence may be to blame for English preference for the present progressive tense over the simple present tense in many contexts e.g. "I am typing now" rather than the technically also correct "I type now" (incidentally the word "type" inherited from Middle English borrowed from Latin in turn derived from Greek).Replies: @Inselaffen
What! They weren’t all blackety, black, black? I was sure the intrepid Africans had explored the world many times over by that time. Color me shocked…
Now this is a Viking.
The richest dude on the planet (so rich he paid off his ex and he’s still the richest dude on the planet!), Jeff Bezos is a Danish-American corporate raider. Look it up.
Way to represent, Jeff!
And you thought the richest dude on the planet with the vaguely ethnic name would be a Jew. Silly Unz reader.
The problem with being categorically anti-Semitic (or racist) is that it vastly oversimplifies reality to the point to where you first attempt to put individuals into pre determined boxes of moral worth (or other worth).
The "Them vs. Us" model backfires when we discover that the Bad Person is one of Us, not Them. Or a Good Person is one of Them, not Us.
Generalizations are one thing. Dogmatic beliefs on the other hand, put the cart before the horse.
So we can hate Jeff Bezos for being a Badwhite even Christian, not Jewish.
OT: are Italians counted as Latinos in the US????
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8741099/University-Wisconsin-Madison-graduate-resigns-teaching-job-lying-black.html
If not, then maybe the Latinx studies should be changed to Hispaninx studies. But it’d be easier just to recognize that what’s truly most hated by the left is Europe’s Mater et Magistra: the Catholic Church. Though for historical reasons that’s difficult to grasp in the Anglophone world. Thus you get all these Gibbons-like theses that Christianity is a source of weakness.
Once you get past his characteristic over wrought verbosity it becomes quite clear.Replies: @Amerimutt Golems, @JMcG, @Chrisnonymous, @theo the kraut, @britishbrainsize, @Anonymous, @Bao Jiankang, @Anonymous, @greysquirrell
Which revelations are you talking about? The genetic data on the Sintashta/Andronovo suggest that they were swarthier than modern northern Europeans.
Once you get past his characteristic over wrought verbosity it becomes quite clear.Replies: @Amerimutt Golems, @JMcG, @Chrisnonymous, @theo the kraut, @britishbrainsize, @Anonymous, @Bao Jiankang, @Anonymous, @greysquirrell
Razib is lighter skinned than most bengalis.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1055195477979746306/3RZPJJoY.jpg
Among upper caste Hindu Bengalis (tho Rajib Khan's pre-Muslim ancestors were upper caste hindus too ) you can get a lot more fairer folks.
https://cdn.dnaindia.com/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/2019/06/08/833530-ronitroy-060819.jpg
https://www.wikistaar.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/d90a53e03fc594974fa7fc6dbcfab088-e1585458697581.jpg
https://www.tellychakkar.com/sites/www.tellychakkar.com/files/styles/display_665x429/public/images/movie_image/2020/08/10/Swastika.jpg
https://c.ndtvimg.com/2020-08/a3rmb638_rheachakraborty650_625x300_27_August_20.jpg
“grave-robbed”
Admittedly an interest of mine.
“Viking skeletons”
Good reason not to own Irish coastal property: Viking revenants often come ashore to steal Irish babies. Any American with significant Irish, Scottish, and/or English blood has some Viking DNA lurking within their system. Now to find a way to trigger said DNA in order to pump man juice into the gonads of flaccid white males who refuse to heed Chuck Heston’s warnings.
I would actually like to hear them try to articulate the reasoning. At the end of the day it would have to come down to: "Hey, some people claim it makes them upset for irrational reasons, and we want to avoid making those people upset."
But what if some group of people sincerely believes that looking at the bones of any dead humans is deeply offensive? Do their objections make all worldwide archeology unethical? Why do only people with similar DNA have special standing to raise ethical concerns?Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist, @Colin Wright
‘…Why do only people with similar DNA have special standing to raise ethical concerns?’
The worst of it is that the modern Indians living in the region didn’t have similar DNA to Kennewick Man. That was the whole point.
Even if one buys into the whole attempt to retrofit Kennewick man as an American Indian, Indians moved around a lot over the millennia. Whatever Indians were hanging out around Kennewick when dude died weren’t the same Indians who are around there now.
One might as well take seriously modern Polish plumbers in Lancashire expressing outrage over the desecration of Angl0-Saxon burial mounds on the grounds that those are ‘their’ people. If the person in the burial mound appears to be Chinese, their argument only becomes less defensible.
Just minutes before seeing this post, I was listening to a Tides of History podcast about ancient Native Americans, and the studies of their DNA/genomes.
The host and his interviewee spent almost one-third of the podcast's time stressing, and re-stressing, and restating, and re-emphaszing how utterly crucial, necessary, virtuous, and just plain righteous it was for paleoarcheologists and other scientists to never, ever, under no circumstances, in any way, ever ever ever dig up and analyze the bones of ancient Native Americans without the express permission, in writing, from the Commissioner of All The Native Tribes in America, or something like that.
They went on and on about what an atrocity the 'Kenniwick Man' case was: if you don't recall this, about 20 years ago a 10,000-year-old guy who looked like Captain Picard was found on the banks of the Columbia River in WA. Scientists wanted to study him, but Native American tribes in the area insisted that he was their close kin, and that only immediate reburial would suffice to honor the terms and conditions of their respect for their elders/ancestors. The case went to litigation, and the scientists lost.
Even more pertinently, one of the authors of the Viking article, Eske Willerslev, was interviewed on an earlier episode of Tides of History. He was interesting, but super-woke. He also preached extensively on the need to respect tribal sensitivities, ancestor-honoring, etc. But I don't see anything in the article even raising this as an issue.
So hey, I wonder who got asked if it was okay to dig up the Vikings? I'm plenty northern European by ancestry, and nobody asked me.Replies: @Cortes, @Hypnotoad666, @Skylark Thibedeau
They don’t want you to find out the Paleoasian Americans wiped out the Pacific and Canary Islanders who got here first.
Good stuff. There’s a lot of Nordic DNA among the population of Ireland–particularly the west. Didn’t know it was Norwegian though it makes abundant sense. Some place names in Ireland (Wexford for example, are named after Viking settlements.
They should’ve dug up Beethoven while they were at it.
Notably, northern European children tend to be blond and grow brunette with age because Vitamin D is more important in childhood when your bones are still growing. Additionally children tend to be cared for their mothers indoors.
There was probably strong selective pressure for blondness all the way up the widespread adoption of vitamin D fortification processes, which was very recent.Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Mactoul, @Sean, @dearieme, @J1234, @Lagertha
This is certainly true in my family. For example, my son had hair as straight and blond as Owen Wilson’s as a child, but about as dark and curly as Howard Stern’s by the time he was 14 or 15.
English, German, Dutch, and Flemish consitute one branch of the Germanic language family within Indo-European, the Scandinavian languages constitute another branch and a third branch, Gothic is now extinct.
Once you get past his characteristic over wrought verbosity it becomes quite clear.Replies: @Amerimutt Golems, @JMcG, @Chrisnonymous, @theo the kraut, @britishbrainsize, @Anonymous, @Bao Jiankang, @Anonymous, @greysquirrell
Razib is as objective as it gets. Maybe you read his use of the word “exceptional” as offensive in your mind.
There is a theory that the Vikings did not settle in as great a number as some say they did, in other words the population of Yorkshire and Scotland was predominantly descended from the original populations that came over to Britain between the ice and bronze ages, it is why people from Yorkshire do look very distinct to Danes generally with the latter being significantly blonder, many people in northern Britain have paler skin but much darker hair. According to the anthropologist Carleton Coon there were only 3 areas in Europe that had a significant blonde population, Jutland, Frisia and central Sweden to eastern Norway, everywhere else has always been mixed as far as hair colour is concerned.
Thank you. How did Gothic go extinct?
Way to represent, Jeff!
And you thought the richest dude on the planet with the vaguely ethnic name would be a Jew. Silly Unz reader.Replies: @Muggles
Jeff Bezos’s non Jewish ancestry has been discussed many, many times in Unz comments. Too many.
The problem with being categorically anti-Semitic (or racist) is that it vastly oversimplifies reality to the point to where you first attempt to put individuals into pre determined boxes of moral worth (or other worth).
The “Them vs. Us” model backfires when we discover that the Bad Person is one of Us, not Them. Or a Good Person is one of Them, not Us.
Generalizations are one thing. Dogmatic beliefs on the other hand, put the cart before the horse.
So we can hate Jeff Bezos for being a Badwhite even Christian, not Jewish.
No need. He’s been rolled over in his grave so many times there’s hardly anything left.
Since my husband has haplogroup I1, it seems fair that we should be entitled to some reparations from the Indo-European hordes (AKA Aryans) for their mistreatment of his ancestors. Or something...Replies: @JohnPlywood
The Indo Europeans weren’t from Western Asia but the Eastern European forest steppe zone in Western Russia and Ukraine.
No it does’t, you can’t cite a single study suggesting anything like that, it’s all Razib Kahn’s lie from his blog. The Andronovo and other steppe nomads were blonder/lighter skinned than modern Northern Europeans.
What were Blue Eyed People doing in Northern Israel 6,500 years ago?A large-scale genetic study of the ancient population of Peqi'in revealed that the Chalcolithic culture in the region developed by waves of migration from Anatolia and the Zagros mountains about 6500 years ago. This study was carried out by an international team of researchers led by Dr. Hila May and Prof. Israel Hershkovitz from the Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel Aviv University, Dr. Dina Shalem from the Institute for Galilean Archaeology Kinneret College and the Israel Antiquities Authority, and Éadaoin Harney and Prof. David Reich of Harvard University....snip...It shows that the people of Peqi'in have ancestry related to that of earlier ancient groups from Anatolia and Iran – and not seen in earlier peoples from the Levant. This suggests that a migration into the region, bringing people who our genetic data showed had a high rate of blue eyes that were previously rare in the region, may have triggered the development of the Chalcolithic culture. Also
https://www.area61afg.org/forums/topic/dna-study-finds-early-inhabitants-of-israel-were-blue-eyed-and-fair-skinned/
DNA Study Finds Early Inhabitants of Israel Were Blue-Eyed and Fair-Skinned
One must not confuse language and race. The core of English is also Germanic even though the speaker may be more of a Celt than an Anglo-Saxon.Replies: @Juvenalis
English won’t be confused for a Celtic language…but in terms of vocabulary, Germanic language English could be confused for a Romance language stepchild. All old Germanic languages together (Old English, Norse, Dutch, etc.) account for only around 1/4 of modern English vocabulary.
2/3 of English vocabulary comes from the Classical languages: ~60% from Latin, either directly or via some stage of French, and ~6% from Greek. (Another ~6% of English words come from other languages—including other Romance languages; the remaining ~4% of English words are derived from proper names).
But Celtic languages may have influenced some less obvious elements of English grammar and syntax. Celtic influence may be to blame for English preference for the present progressive tense over the simple present tense in many contexts e.g. “I am typing now” rather than the technically also correct “I type now” (incidentally the word “type” inherited from Middle English borrowed from Latin in turn derived from Greek).
From what is seems, most DNA testing splits up rough ethnicities as so constituted around 9-1oth century, correct? This would appear so, based on how they catch Viking influxes into the Danelaw, Orkneys, etc? Is this level of fineness found in the rest studiesof European ancestries? I guess that the huge sample size of British and British-ancestry testing customers (and lots of British Isles archeology) probably means researchers can do a lot probably splitting than they can for other regions. 23 and Me had a speculative map that broke my probable ancestry concentrations down to the county/regional level, like Yorkshire or Perth. Ancestry has that settler map that literally nailed the locations of colonial ancestors 300-360 years ago. Impressive.
Not an expert on the Goths but I know a lot of them migrated into the Roman Empire when it collapsed, so they ended up in Italy, France, Spain, etc… I remember Jared Diamond wrote once that the last surviving Gothic language may have survived until the late 18th century in Russia around the Black Sea.
The mentality that says race doesn’t exist and then it magically exists when they want to use it as a way to stop the study of a skeleton that might put to question the idea that mongoloid American Indians might not be the first ones on the North American continent; is the same mentality that says we need to wear Covid masks in Walmart for everyone’s protection, but if we are on a BLM riot, no masks are necessary.
Is "Black" a dog race?
One Human race.
Then there's
Culture color ethnic group and nationality
Colonial complex?
What? You mean the Vikings weren’t black!!
The former Scientific American is what sealed my race-realism back in the early 1990’s. I had been lied to from every angle while my observations and experiences told me the truth. Then came SA with the news that DNA confirmed some 70,000+ years of divergent evolution and I thought, “Now! Who can continue this insane charade any longer?”
It’s too late for me, but censoring the science in ‘Sort-of-Scientific American’ may prevent a kid today from following the path. That for about as long as it takes him to search for the information (unknown and hidden from us old-timers) on his phone..
The similarities between English and German are pronounced, and perhaps even more so between English and Dutch, which I find fascinating. Considering the history, it makes sense.
This is from the comment thread of Design Mom. A post about how people who read her material on design should not support Trump. A sample of what she said. But look later at what is in the comments. Later in the comments.
KIMBERLYAugust 28, 2020 at 4:02 pmREPLY
I’m very ANTI-trump but I do want to bring up one thing about this post that worries me. I watch YouTube clips of Fox News or Ben Shapiro from time to time (and am often recommended them on the site) to make sure I really see the narrative being pushed. I want to say and feel I heard both side of the argument. I’ve come away time after time feeling as strongly angry as ever but I wonder if Instagram or YouTube would label me pro-trump? I think that’s the danger in trusting those analytics?
KATEAugust 28, 2020 at 5:30 pmREPLY
My husband works in the field, and my understanding is the analytics are VERY sophisticated and would not peg you as a trump voter just from that. I think.
MEGHAN JOSEPHAugust 28, 2020 at 7:21 pmREPLY
YES! Thank you!
ANNABELLEAugust 28, 2020 at 8:11 pmREPLY
I was hanging on every word.
I loved this and I needed it.
KIMBERLYAugust 28, 2020 at 8:39 pmREPLY
Thank you, that’s great to hear from someone who understands how these things work! I still do worry about those analytics being used against someone, it’s so complicated. I recently quit Facebook because I couldn’t emotionally handle the pro-trump rhetoric from people I know personally and care for. It’s just such a sad state of things and I’m so distraught.
KATEAugust 30, 2020 at 12:11 pmREPLY
So I did check! The “prediction” models are based on an aggregate of your activity across a platform. So for example, google prediction model is based on all activity on youtube, google search platform, and gmail activity, mainly. So if your conservative viewing is a small fraction of activity across those platforms it wouldn’t affect your “score” too heavily. If it was a company creating a prediction based on the apps on your phone, then each ap would weigh on your score. (so if you had Fox News, bass pro, wsj and bo hunting range, your score would be much more conservative than someone with ny times, recycled!, period tracker and Fox News) Anyway, hope that sheds a little light on it. Most scores or political rating are a number on a scale, not a binary red or blue and to receive a heavy “conservative” label you would have to be doing LOTS of things that pointed to that lifestyle.Replies: @S
Thanks for the revealing post.
It’s unfortunate that back in the 19th century that there weren’t some who didn’t successfully separate themselves in the US from the self declared ‘progressive’/’enlightened’ sort. Due to the progs greed, slavery (first chattel, then wage, ie so called ‘cheap labor’), hatreds, paranoia, and empire building, they would have largely destroyed themselves by now, just as they’ve done and are doing, but there would be a much better situated remnant left to work with.
Well, there’s the Amish.
2/3 of English vocabulary comes from the Classical languages: ~60% from Latin, either directly or via some stage of French, and ~6% from Greek. (Another ~6% of English words come from other languages—including other Romance languages; the remaining ~4% of English words are derived from proper names).
But Celtic languages may have influenced some less obvious elements of English grammar and syntax. Celtic influence may be to blame for English preference for the present progressive tense over the simple present tense in many contexts e.g. "I am typing now" rather than the technically also correct "I type now" (incidentally the word "type" inherited from Middle English borrowed from Latin in turn derived from Greek).Replies: @Inselaffen
when you say ‘vocabulary’ do you just mean ‘words in the dictionary’? I’d not be so surprised if 2/3 of the words in an English dictionary trace roots to Classical languages given scientific/technical terms for new concepts/inventions usually get made out of Greek/Latin words; but ‘vocabulary’ in terms of the kinds of words people will actually use when talking to each other, I’d expect it to be more like 2/3 Germanic (and I believe some studies have said ‘everyday English’ is mostly Germanic).
No he is not, he has typical Bengali skin tone.
Among upper caste Hindu Bengalis (tho Rajib Khan’s pre-Muslim ancestors were upper caste hindus too ) you can get a lot more fairer folks.
Reading a lot of Afrocentrist joker and moron Clyde Winters, the “black Olmec Lord” LOL? Are We?
The oldest Haplogroup R1B was found in Europe and is dated 14 000 years.
Haplogroup R1b (R-V88) was taken by a migration of Europeans into the Cameroons about 8000 years ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b#Origin_and_dispersal
Early human remains found to carry R1b include:
Villabruna 1 (individual I9030), a Western Hunter-Gatherer (WHG), found in an Epigravettian culture setting in the Cismon valley (modern Veneto, Italy), who lived circa 14000 BP and belonged to R1b1a.[9][10]
Three genetic studies in 2015 gave support to the Kurgan hypothesis of Marija Gimbutas regarding the Proto-Indo-European homeland. According to those studies, haplogroups R1b-M269 and R1a, now the most common in Europe (R1a is also common in South Asia) would have expanded from the West Eurasian Steppe, along with the Indo-European languages; they also detected an autosomal component present in modern Europeans which was not present in Neolithic Europeans, which would have been introduced with paternal lineages R1b and R1a, as well as Indo-European languages.[3][4][5]
Analysis of ancient Y-DNA from the remains from early Neolithic Central and North European Linear Pottery culture settlements have not yet found males belonging to haplogroup R1b-M269.[36][37] Olalde et al. (2017) trace the spread of haplogroup R1b-M269 in western Europe, particularly Britain, to the spread of the Beaker culture, with a sudden appearance of many R1b-M269 haplogroups in Western Europe ca. 5000–4500 years BP during the early Bronze Age.[38] In the 2016 Nature article “The genetic history of Ice Age Europe”,.[39]
D’Atanasio et al. (2018) propose that R1b-V88 originated in Europe about 12 000 years ago and crossed to North Africa by about 8000 years ago; it may formerly have been common in southern Europe, where it has since been replaced by waves of other haplogroups, leaving remnant subclades almost excusively in Sardinia. It first radiated within Africa likely between 7 and 8 000 years ago – at the same time as trans-Saharan expansions within the unrelated haplogroups E-M2 and A-M13 – possibly due to population growth allowed by humid conditions and the adoption of livestock herding in the Sahara. R1b-V1589, the main subclade within R1b-V88, underwent a further expansion around 5500 years ago, likely in the Lake Chad Basin region, from which some lines recrossed the Sahara to North Africa.[40] The DNA sequencing of ancient individuals provides strong evidence for this proposed model of North to South trans-saharan movement: The earliest basal R1b-V88 haplogroups are found in several Eastern European Hunter Gatherers close to 10 000 years ago. The haplogroup then seemingly further spread with the Neolithic Cardial Ware expansion, which established agriculture in the Western Mediterranean around 7500 BP: R1b-V88 haplogroups were identified in ancient Neolithic individuals in central Italy, Iberia and, at a particularly high frequency, in Sardinia.[41] A part of the branch leading to present-day African haplogroups (V2197) is already derived in some of these ancient Neolithic European individuals, providing further support for a North to South trans-saharan movement.”
I love love LOVE this locution from the Article’s abstract:
“Hon, I just came back from the beach and saw all these boats with a dragon’s neck on the bow. They must be visiting for some substantial transregional engagement!
Let’s go welcome them!”
Eventually after centuries occupation and intermarriage the people in the outer Hebrides would become so called Gall Gael or foreign gaels in descriptions.
Trump's maternal ancestry is from these peoples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse%E2%80%93GaelsReplies: @Philip Owen
Otehr way round. Dubh is dark. Finn is fair – Fiona.
Correct. Dublin = Dubh Linn: Literal translation is Black Pool.
Once you get past his characteristic over wrought verbosity it becomes quite clear.Replies: @Amerimutt Golems, @JMcG, @Chrisnonymous, @theo the kraut, @britishbrainsize, @Anonymous, @Bao Jiankang, @Anonymous, @greysquirrell
“over wrought verbosity”
That’s an apt description of his diction. Reading through his writings I wonder why he can’t just convey his thoughts in an unassuming manner, like Michael Shermer, Richard Dawkins or John Hawks.
Viking diaspora?
So a black jack Russell is a different race than a brown or white or mixed colored jack Russell?
Is “Black” a dog race?
One Human race.
Then there’s
Culture color ethnic group and nationality
Colonial complex?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG
The oldest Haplogroup R1B was found in Europe and is dated 14 000 years.Haplogroup R1b (R-V88) was taken by a migration of Europeans into the Cameroons about 8000 years ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b#Origin_and_dispersal
Early human remains found to carry R1b include:
Villabruna 1 (individual I9030), a Western Hunter-Gatherer (WHG), found in an Epigravettian culture setting in the Cismon valley (modern Veneto, Italy), who lived circa 14000 BP and belonged to R1b1a.[9][10]Three genetic studies in 2015 gave support to the Kurgan hypothesis of Marija Gimbutas regarding the Proto-Indo-European homeland. According to those studies, haplogroups R1b-M269 and R1a, now the most common in Europe (R1a is also common in South Asia) would have expanded from the West Eurasian Steppe, along with the Indo-European languages; they also detected an autosomal component present in modern Europeans which was not present in Neolithic Europeans, which would have been introduced with paternal lineages R1b and R1a, as well as Indo-European languages.[3][4][5]Analysis of ancient Y-DNA from the remains from early Neolithic Central and North European Linear Pottery culture settlements have not yet found males belonging to haplogroup R1b-M269.[36][37] Olalde et al. (2017) trace the spread of haplogroup R1b-M269 in western Europe, particularly Britain, to the spread of the Beaker culture, with a sudden appearance of many R1b-M269 haplogroups in Western Europe ca. 5000–4500 years BP during the early Bronze Age.[38] In the 2016 Nature article "The genetic history of Ice Age Europe",.[39]D'Atanasio et al. (2018) propose that R1b-V88 originated in Europe about 12 000 years ago and crossed to North Africa by about 8000 years ago; it may formerly have been common in southern Europe, where it has since been replaced by waves of other haplogroups, leaving remnant subclades almost excusively in Sardinia. It first radiated within Africa likely between 7 and 8 000 years ago – at the same time as trans-Saharan expansions within the unrelated haplogroups E-M2 and A-M13 – possibly due to population growth allowed by humid conditions and the adoption of livestock herding in the Sahara. R1b-V1589, the main subclade within R1b-V88, underwent a further expansion around 5500 years ago, likely in the Lake Chad Basin region, from which some lines recrossed the Sahara to North Africa.[40] The DNA sequencing of ancient individuals provides strong evidence for this proposed model of North to South trans-saharan movement: The earliest basal R1b-V88 haplogroups are found in several Eastern European Hunter Gatherers close to 10 000 years ago. The haplogroup then seemingly further spread with the Neolithic Cardial Ware expansion, which established agriculture in the Western Mediterranean around 7500 BP: R1b-V88 haplogroups were identified in ancient Neolithic individuals in central Italy, Iberia and, at a particularly high frequency, in Sardinia.[41] A part of the branch leading to present-day African haplogroups (V2197) is already derived in some of these ancient Neolithic European individuals, providing further support for a North to South trans-saharan movement."Replies: @Sya Beerens
nobody cares
Notably, northern European children tend to be blond and grow brunette with age because Vitamin D is more important in childhood when your bones are still growing. Additionally children tend to be cared for their mothers indoors.
There was probably strong selective pressure for blondness all the way up the widespread adoption of vitamin D fortification processes, which was very recent.Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @Mactoul, @Sean, @dearieme, @J1234, @Lagertha
total crap. There are adults in Finland with incredible flaxen hair. One of my sons is teased (he’s in his 20’s) for his white eyebrows, lashes and whitish hair. His body hair is white. Locker rooms were tough (teen years), but he was the Captain and the strongest, biggest fiercest athlete on the team…so..no one went there. And, he was a nice guy.
2nd funny thing about my fair-skinned Finnish guys: they are uncircumcised- my decision, at the hospital….it is not my culture to violate a baby.
They were mercilessly teased (showers in HS) for being uncircumcised, and, they survived HS! hahhahahahhahaaaaaa. They were great athletes and smart asses, smart/foul mouthed like their mother, so they were ok. They survived the most crucial years of “punishment” which has wrecked so many people.
I think that world history, especially now, because so many young people do not know history, US & World, duh, is lost on them because they never got over being rejected and ridiculed in HS or MS.
Paywalled. But didn’t see anything about Normandy, otherwise known as North-Man-dy. Should be loaded with Danish DNA.
My 23andMe profile shows my Norwegian and British origins at the regional level, but it doesn’t have that detail for French/German and Eastern European ancestry yet. Genetic genealogy seems to be quite popular in Norway, too.
Well this is interesting, there were blue eyed people in the ancient Levant too.
https://natureecoevocommunity.nature.com/posts/38003-what-were-blue-eyed-people-doing-in-northern-israel-6-500-years-ago
What were Blue Eyed People doing in Northern Israel 6,500 years ago?
A large-scale genetic study of the ancient population of Peqi’in revealed that the Chalcolithic culture in the region developed by waves of migration from Anatolia and the Zagros mountains about 6500 years ago. This study was carried out by an international team of researchers led by Dr. Hila May and Prof. Israel Hershkovitz from the Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel Aviv University, Dr. Dina Shalem from the Institute for Galilean Archaeology Kinneret College and the Israel Antiquities Authority, and Éadaoin Harney and Prof. David Reich of Harvard University.
…snip…
It shows that the people of Peqi’in have ancestry related to that of earlier ancient groups from Anatolia and Iran – and not seen in earlier peoples from the Levant. This suggests that a migration into the region, bringing people who our genetic data showed had a high rate of blue eyes that were previously rare in the region, may have triggered the development of the Chalcolithic culture.
Also
https://www.area61afg.org/forums/topic/dna-study-finds-early-inhabitants-of-israel-were-blue-eyed-and-fair-skinned/
DNA Study Finds Early Inhabitants of Israel Were Blue-Eyed and Fair-Skinned