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From The Telegraph:

‘United States of Europe by 2025’: German SPD leader names his price for joining Merkel coalition

Justin Huggler, berlin James Crisp, brussels
7 DECEMBER 2017 • 7:27PM

The man who could be Germany’s vice-chancellor within weeks on Thursday called for the European Union to transform itself into a “United States of Europe”.

Martin Schulz, the leader of the German Social Democratic Party (SPD), called for a new federal constitution for the EU by 2025.

Hours before his party voted to open talks on forming a new coalition with the beleaguered Angela Merkel, Mr Schulz made clear he would demand radical EU reform and far deeper integration than previously envisaged as his price for ending weeks of political crisis in Germany.

Under Mr Schulz’s proposals, Brussels would be given power over individual member states’ foreign and domestic policy, as well as taxes.

Countries who refuse to sign up to a new federal Europe should automatically lose their EU membership, he said.

A deal with Mr Schulz’s party is Mrs Merkel’s last chance to prevent new elections after coalition negotiations with smaller parties broke down last month. …

A former president of the European parliament and committed federalist, he appears to have seized on Europe as a new central cause for the SPD after it suffered its worst ever election result in September.

Mr Schulz acknowledged as much in his speech, accusing Poland of “systematically undermining European values”, and saying Hungary was “increasingly isolating itself”.

Once drafted, a new federal constitution would be “presented to the member states, and those countries who are against it will simply leave the EU,” he said — remarks clearly aimed at the reluctant central Europeans.

The EU’s uneasy relationship with Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic sunk to a new low on Thursday as Brussels said it would take them to the European Court of Justice (ECJ) for refusing to accept the bloc’s imposed quotas of migrants.

EU countries agreed to redistribute 120,000 asylum-seekers from Italy and Greece in 2015. The three countries, outvoted over the compulsory law, now face huge, daily fines unless they take their share.

You know, it strikes me that one way Europeanism could be more popular with European voters would be by being more pro-European and not quite so pro-Eritrean.

 
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  1. more pro-European and not quite so pro-Eritrean

    Or pro-Burkina-Fasoan

    Macron went on an absolute tear: flipped Invade-Invite on its head, then stomped on it — that is, Invite — in front of a crowd of horrified neoliberal ex-fans.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    https://www.rt.com/news/411346-macron-african-comments-awkward/


    What’s wrong with Macron? 6 awkward comments the French leader has made about Africa
     
    , @BB753
    @Anonymous

    There are plenty of non-student non-working Africans in France. Thousands of them unwilling or unable to even complete middle-school.
    Hell, what is the lady implying, that African universities are not top-notch?

    Replies: @Autochthon

    , @Bill
    @Anonymous

    Oh, look, it's Sista Soulja.

    , @Eric Novak
    @Anonymous

    Third World logic-the number of French soldiers fighting and dying to rid Africa of ISIS at the behest of African governments should not exceed the number of African students in French universities because white colonialists owe Africans not only their lives but their seats at university as reparations for fighting for Africa.

  2. @Anonymous

    more pro-European and not quite so pro-Eritrean
     
    Or pro-Burkina-Fasoan

    Macron went on an absolute tear: flipped Invade-Invite on its head, then stomped on it -- that is, Invite -- in front of a crowd of horrified neoliberal ex-fans.

    https://twitter.com/OnlyAfricaFacts/status/938877344374231041

    Replies: @Anonymous, @BB753, @Bill, @Eric Novak

    https://www.rt.com/news/411346-macron-african-comments-awkward/

    What’s wrong with Macron? 6 awkward comments the French leader has made about Africa

  3. We don’t need another German Reich. Not only Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic, but also France, Italy and other European nations would pull out of the Union if such a proposal ever came to pass. But some German puppet states would definitely agree to make it official.
    The new European Federal Union could declare Islam its official religion and ask Turkey to join.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    @BB753

    Germany dominating uncompetitive Southern and Eastern European countries and incurring their wrath and resentment is one of those things that casts doubt on the Utopia of pan-white Europeanism.

    Instead of black and Hispanic Americans complaining about white Americans or white Americans complaining about East Asian Americans, you'd just have Southern and Eastern Europeans complaining about the Germans, the British, and the Scandinavians.

    Replies: @bomag, @Chrisnonymous, @IBC, @RadicalCenter, @ThreeCranes

    , @The Alarmist
    @BB753

    Nah, what you'd get is a show administered by the French-speakers and paid for by the Germans ... oh, and the English, now that I've heard about T. May offering England's Treasury up to a buggering by Brussels.

    Schultz seems to thing the periphery are more interested in the dope flowing from Brussels rathering than getting off the junk and living their own lives clean of the EU. Remains to be seen ... too close to call. If it were a layup, the Visigrad would already be out.

    Replies: @BB753

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @BB753

    Visegrad are extremely pleased to get all the EU money that used to flow to French/Spanish/Irish farmers, also extremely pleased that lots of companies are setting up there for low wages (e.g. the iconic Brit brand Twinings Tea, which wants Brits to buy their tea but doesn't want to pay them to process and package it), and they love the Western tourists coming to their relatively safe cities.

    (Who wants to go to Paris on Eurostar and run risk of terrorist attack plus the certainty of running the North African gauntlet at Gare du Nord, when you can fly to Budapest?)

    On the other hand they quite like Poland being full of Poles and Hungary full of Hungarians. Their leaders are aligned with their people, not against them.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    , @German_reader
    @BB753


    but also France, Italy and other European nations would pull out of the Union if such a proposal ever came to pass
     
    Looks very different from Germany, more like such a United states of Europe would be a mechanism for France to make us hand over even more money.

    Replies: @BB753

  4. The man who could be Germany’s vice-chancellor within weeks on Thursday called for the European Union to transform itself into a “United States of Europe”.

    Is this necessarily a good idea? One of the pain points surrounding the Euro has been the clear difference in competitiveness between Northwestern Europe and Southern Europe and the ensuing discussions about the supposed cultural tendency of Southern Europeans towards indolence.

    Just look at how much Greeks hate the Germans today, what with their constant demands of reparations for WW2 and their protests against Berlin.

    http://greece.greekreporter.com/2017/08/19/president-pavlopoulos-brings-back-germanys-wwii-reparations-issue/

    One of the interesting things about American white nationalism is that most white Americans don’t really identify with whatever European ethnicities their ancestors were way back in the day. In a highly multi-racial society like America, the most obvious divisions are along racial lines. So most white Americans think of themselves as white. On the other hand Europeans obviously tend to have a greater sense of ethnic nationalism.

    Historically, European whites have tended to view other European whites somewhat warily, in particular when viewed along the Northern/Southern/Eastern European split. Even in Europe today, in the more developed countries, nuisance points include say Romanian hookers and not merely just black or muslim refugees.

    Which is of course why I stated in an earlier thread that classical HBD in the days of men like Madison Grant or Lothrop Stoddard was far more interesting than a lot of the things you read about today… Clear schisms exist today in Europe along the North/South/East split, so it’s always somewhat amusing when white nationalist Americans think of pan-white as some kind of Utopia…

    • Replies: @Lurker
    @Yan Shen

    But no mainstream politician wanting European union is pro-white or anything close to it. They appear to yearn for the day Europe is majority non-white.

    As Steve highlights, it would be fascinating to see what a pro-European Europe looked like.

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @Anonymous

    , @bomag
    @Yan Shen


    Clear schisms exist today in Europe along the North/South/East split, so it’s always somewhat amusing when white nationalist Americans think of pan-white as some kind of Utopia…
     
    It is not offered as a utopia; it is offered as something better than having your culture and heritage displaced by a foreigner from far away.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    , @Bill B.
    @Yan Shen


    so it’s always somewhat amusing when white nationalist Americans think of pan-white as some kind of Utopia…
     
    Just as amusing as those who think of the han Chineseas making up a civilisation?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  5. @Anonymous

    more pro-European and not quite so pro-Eritrean
     
    Or pro-Burkina-Fasoan

    Macron went on an absolute tear: flipped Invade-Invite on its head, then stomped on it -- that is, Invite -- in front of a crowd of horrified neoliberal ex-fans.

    https://twitter.com/OnlyAfricaFacts/status/938877344374231041

    Replies: @Anonymous, @BB753, @Bill, @Eric Novak

    There are plenty of non-student non-working Africans in France. Thousands of them unwilling or unable to even complete middle-school.
    Hell, what is the lady implying, that African universities are not top-notch?

    • Replies: @Autochthon
    @BB753

    His answer was well-played, in any event.

  6. @BB753
    We don't need another German Reich. Not only Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic, but also France, Italy and other European nations would pull out of the Union if such a proposal ever came to pass. But some German puppet states would definitely agree to make it official.
    The new European Federal Union could declare Islam its official religion and ask Turkey to join.

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @The Alarmist, @YetAnotherAnon, @German_reader

    Germany dominating uncompetitive Southern and Eastern European countries and incurring their wrath and resentment is one of those things that casts doubt on the Utopia of pan-white Europeanism.

    Instead of black and Hispanic Americans complaining about white Americans or white Americans complaining about East Asian Americans, you’d just have Southern and Eastern Europeans complaining about the Germans, the British, and the Scandinavians.

    • Troll: Chrisnonymous, Yan Shen
    • Replies: @bomag
    @Yan Shen


    Instead of black and Hispanic Americans complaining about white Americans or white Americans complaining about East Asian Americans, you’d just have Southern and Eastern Europeans complaining about the Germans, the British, and the Scandinavians.
     
    One of those seems markedly preferable to the other.
    , @Chrisnonymous
    @Yan Shen


    Instead of... white Americans complaining about East Asian Americans, you’d just have Southern and Eastern Europeans complaining about the Germans, the British, and the Scandinavians.
     
    White Americans don't complain about Asians, it's just we complain about you.
    , @IBC
    @Yan Shen


    ...East Asian Americans...
     
    Don't you mean "Confucian-Americans?"
    , @RadicalCenter
    @Yan Shen

    Another way in which the USA was and is different from Europe, this time a difference benefitting the USA.

    In the USA, tens of millions of white people have genetic and cultural heritage from several of those regions of Europe. I have substantial ancestry from each of Southern Europe, Eastern Europe, and Western/NW Europe, and many white people of my acquaintance have family background from at least two of such European regions.

    A pan-white-European culture and polity is exactly what was developing, and working very well, in the USA before the floodgates were foolishly opened to mass third world immigration.

    Historic animosities, tensions,and "long memories" between different white countries in Europe, just don't apply that much here, and thank God for that.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    , @ThreeCranes
    @Yan Shen

    You're right.

    Right now, when people live in separate countries, unification appears to be the solution to everyone's problems. When they achieve this, the same people will be pushing secession as the answer to their prayers.

    Centrifugal/Centripetal. Kinetic/Potential. While one is spending, the other is storing. Maya drawing the veil of illusion that erases memory and clouds judgement causes the ardent faction to champion their cause du jour with full throated enthusiasm.

  7. Most people wouldn’t have minded it if it didn’t include the now 11 former Warsaw pact countries that produce an unacceptable level of immigration to certain cities and if external borders were guarded.

    If any of these people think a big Europe with Ukraine and Turkey wouldn’t have blown apart, I think they are just too dim and too old to understand things are different to when they were young and don’t see the rapid and intolerable pace of these things. They’re not young people trying to buy a house and navigate a social environment filled with alienating (And often people with low trust, mercenary attitudes) foreigners.

    As Yan Shen has noted, it’s only an American idea of ‘White nationalism’. That Richard Spencer doesn’t understand why people in the UK would want to stop EU immigration (And not in a rhetorical way, the noise he makes betrays a total lack of understanding.) proves how detached America is from Europe.

    • Replies: @Issac
    @Altai

    The detachment in question is emanating from Europe. United Europe is considered absurd everywhere else. Spencer likes to buck that trend and for it he is roundly mocked. Confusing Spencerian flights of fancy with American dispositions proves the Europeans know very little likewise.

    Replies: @Yan Shen

    , @RadicalCenter
    @Altai

    Fair point about white groups in Europe perceiving themselves as more separate from other white groups in Europe, than they are here in the USA.

    But thankfully it's different for whites here. Most of us absolutely have a pan-white identity, with loyalty to and affection for all other white Americans no matter where in Europe their people came from,

    My ancestors came here, from EVERY region in Europe, precisely to become "detached" from Europe. Smart move.

    In any event, an EU including every current member -- but NOT Turkey -- could work just fine.

    It could work if it was not a superstate but an alliance of sovereign countries seeking together to facilitate trade, easier tourist and business travel, increased cultural and student exchange programs, and common border control efforts against Third World immivasion.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @AndrewR

  8. How can Martin Schultz insist on pan-European conditions in the future as the price of joining a coalition in Germany in 2017? This sounds like a “non-starter” to me.

    • Replies: @Frau Katze
    @Diversity Heretic

    And he’s making the condition in the contex of a purely German election.

    He seems to be assuming that Germany runs the EU (and it does, but it’s bad taste to admit it).

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic

  9. You know, it strikes me that one way Europeanism could be more popular with European voters would be by being more pro-European and not quite so pro-Eritrean.

    Pan-Europeanism is one of those ideas that well intentioned but uh naive American white nationalists often like to promote or fantasize about. In reality it’s not a particularly realistic thing, as anyone who’s been paying attention to some of the recent ongoings in Europe may be aware, for the simple fact that outside of Germany, the UK, the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, and possibly France, the rest of Europe isn’t particularly competitive in much.

    Seeing Greeks constantly protest and complain about the Germans and demanding reparations eerily parallels the way that blacks and whites interact in this country. One can easily imagine the Greek Ta Nehisi Coates penning masterpieces about how Greece is entitled to perpetual reparations and atonement from the Germans because violent and racist Germans brutalized Greek bodies back in the day. Sorry, did I say Germans? I meant uh people who thought they were Germans brutalized innocent Greek bodies during World War 2.

    Anyway, the Germans no more want to carry around Greek or Polish deadweight than productive Americans here want to blamed for all of the failings of blacks or Hispanics. As someone who isn’t a huge fan of the current trend towards open borders globalization a la Bryan Caplan, my hope is that in areas like Europe, Asia, Africa, etc. where traditional ethnic nation states have reigned, we can continue to embrace the self-determination of peoples.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Yan Shen

    I've long held the opinion that European federalism holds such a deep sway amongst certain elements of the European political class due to a secret and unadmitted 'United States envy'.
    Power is what drives these people. They see others having ultimate power and want a bit of it themselves.
    It really *is* as shallow and childish as that.

    Replies: @Charles Pewitt, @Anonymous

    , @bomag
    @Yan Shen


    Pan-Europeanism is one of those ideas that well intentioned but naive... like to promote or fantasize about
     
    Uh, nationalists by definition advocate local control with smaller, more coherent states.

    If pan-Europeanism is advocated, it is usually an alliance of convenience to counter an outside threat.

    It is the liberal/progressive types who advocate for a questionable pan-worldism; pan-speciesism; etc.
    , @backup
    @Yan Shen

    "Germany, the UK, the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, and possibly France"

    What do these have in common? (BTW you can add Switzerland, North-Italy and Austria to that)

    , @Random Lurker
    @Yan Shen

    I’m glad to see somebody else express this. Ethno-nationalism for traditional ethno-states (Britain for the British, Poland for the Polish, Japan for the Japanese, etc.) if thats what the majority of the people desire. Some form of civic nationalism for the New World (United States, Canada, Australia, etc.) Not excluding immigrants based on ethnic background, but only letting in those that can support themselves and are willing to embrace Western values.

    , @songbird
    @Yan Shen

    What is really amusing to me are the people (mostly very white liberals) trying to split off Southern Europeans in an obvious attempt to add their numbers into their anti-white coalition.

    Probably the best example of this is the old Hercules TV show with Kevin Sorbo. People now complain about it quite often, though I don't think anyone did back in the day. They complain about Sorbo though the show had many black extras on it. Though Hercules half-sister, Aphrodite was often depicted being blonde in classical times. Though one of his other half-sisters is often called the Grey-eyed Goddess. Though it was obviously convenience casting and totally apolitical. Their complaints are so transparent because they made no outcry when he was played by the black-Samoan, the Rock.

    Greeks and Italians had high civilization. For one thing, their art is objectively superior to anything found outside of Europe. Some believe that the Ashkenazi picked up their high IQ genes from Southern Europe. The political and economic differences might be real and significant, but it is still obviously civilization, with the hope of progress.

    Replies: @Nico

    , @Expletive Deleted
    @Yan Shen


    the Germans no more want to carry around Greek or Polish deadweight than
     
    they wish to run a rigged trade surplus against defenceless Mediterranean donkey-powered meme-nations.
    The whole point of the single currency and EU-funded "development" was to artificially lower barriers (a.k.a. being utterly skint, and not having roads etc.) to turbo-dumping of expensive German manufacturing exports on everyone else without having the Mark revalued to the stratosphere.
    Also kept German worker-drones quiet and passive over their lack of sharing in the increased productivity through what would otherwise be better wages.

    That's why Greece freaked them out so much. They (and the French, tagging along as usual) had lent, or as it turned out given the cunning Boss Stavros's an obscene mountain of cash in the expectation that it would be dutifully recycled into buying fine engineering and sausages. And not just trousered, cutting raggedy-ass Greek peasants out of the deal. Result, "Now ve are confiscate your entire country, nasty ordinary Greek peoples!!"
    TBH I'm surprised the Hellenes aren't shooting them Hermans in their holiday villas for this, like they were doing in the Balearics a few years back.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @Eric Novak
    @Yan Shen

    Germany is concerned with maintaining its profits from its client states in Eastern Europe, especially Poland, after Germany's 25-year, $100 billion investments in the form of infrastructure and industrial capital. Poland has the whip hand, not Germany.

  10. @Yan Shen

    The man who could be Germany’s vice-chancellor within weeks on Thursday called for the European Union to transform itself into a “United States of Europe”.
     
    Is this necessarily a good idea? One of the pain points surrounding the Euro has been the clear difference in competitiveness between Northwestern Europe and Southern Europe and the ensuing discussions about the supposed cultural tendency of Southern Europeans towards indolence.

    Just look at how much Greeks hate the Germans today, what with their constant demands of reparations for WW2 and their protests against Berlin.

    http://greece.greekreporter.com/2017/08/19/president-pavlopoulos-brings-back-germanys-wwii-reparations-issue/

    One of the interesting things about American white nationalism is that most white Americans don't really identify with whatever European ethnicities their ancestors were way back in the day. In a highly multi-racial society like America, the most obvious divisions are along racial lines. So most white Americans think of themselves as white. On the other hand Europeans obviously tend to have a greater sense of ethnic nationalism.

    Historically, European whites have tended to view other European whites somewhat warily, in particular when viewed along the Northern/Southern/Eastern European split. Even in Europe today, in the more developed countries, nuisance points include say Romanian hookers and not merely just black or muslim refugees.

    Which is of course why I stated in an earlier thread that classical HBD in the days of men like Madison Grant or Lothrop Stoddard was far more interesting than a lot of the things you read about today... Clear schisms exist today in Europe along the North/South/East split, so it's always somewhat amusing when white nationalist Americans think of pan-white as some kind of Utopia...

    Replies: @Lurker, @bomag, @Bill B.

    But no mainstream politician wanting European union is pro-white or anything close to it. They appear to yearn for the day Europe is majority non-white.

    As Steve highlights, it would be fascinating to see what a pro-European Europe looked like.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    @Lurker


    As Steve highlights, it would be fascinating to see what a pro-European Europe looked like.
     
    History provides a fairly good example of what a pro-European Europe could look like. There was something called World War 2, during which numerous Europeans killed other Europeans. In particular Adolf Hitler seemed quite hellbent on wiping Eastern Europeans off the face of the planet.

    Replies: @bomag, @Anonymous, @Issac

    , @Anonymous
    @Lurker

    Anyhow, things are too far gone.

    It is, more or less a certainty, that France, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Denmark, the UK etc etc will be inhabited by a majority non ethnic European stock by 2100.

    Perhaps the last chance of ensuring a European Europe was with Helmut Schmidt back in the '70s who made noises to that effect. An older, wiser un-PC pussy-whipped generation.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

  11. @Lurker
    @Yan Shen

    But no mainstream politician wanting European union is pro-white or anything close to it. They appear to yearn for the day Europe is majority non-white.

    As Steve highlights, it would be fascinating to see what a pro-European Europe looked like.

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @Anonymous

    As Steve highlights, it would be fascinating to see what a pro-European Europe looked like.

    History provides a fairly good example of what a pro-European Europe could look like. There was something called World War 2, during which numerous Europeans killed other Europeans. In particular Adolf Hitler seemed quite hellbent on wiping Eastern Europeans off the face of the planet.

    • Replies: @bomag
    @Yan Shen


    History provides a fairly good example of what a pro-European Europe could look like. There was something called World War 2...
     
    There is a whole lot more to Europe than WW2.

    There has been plenty of conflict and body counts in Asia and Africa based on the same WW2 mentality; such are not used to suggest they abolish themselves.

    For that matter, the current anti-European Europe looks like a slow motion WW3 with displacement from Islam/Africa et al that augers civilizational destruction far beyond WW2.
    , @Anonymous
    @Yan Shen

    If you prefaced your remarks with "Dear Fellow White People" your amateur revisionism would be more entertaining.

    , @Issac
    @Yan Shen

    Mao was vastly more successful wiping out Chinese. Don't be so modest. That's quite a slant.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

  12. Sounds like a great idea. Then the EU would consist of Germany and …

    … maybe Belgium?

    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    @Almost Missouri

    A united Europe is less likely to happen or to work then the United States and Canada unifying.

    Replies: @Samuel Skinner

  13. @BB753
    We don't need another German Reich. Not only Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic, but also France, Italy and other European nations would pull out of the Union if such a proposal ever came to pass. But some German puppet states would definitely agree to make it official.
    The new European Federal Union could declare Islam its official religion and ask Turkey to join.

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @The Alarmist, @YetAnotherAnon, @German_reader

    Nah, what you’d get is a show administered by the French-speakers and paid for by the Germans … oh, and the English, now that I’ve heard about T. May offering England’s Treasury up to a buggering by Brussels.

    Schultz seems to thing the periphery are more interested in the dope flowing from Brussels rathering than getting off the junk and living their own lives clean of the EU. Remains to be seen … too close to call. If it were a layup, the Visigrad would already be out.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @The Alarmist

    Do you really believe that France leads the EU and that Macron is the new Napoleon? I don't. If there's one country that's benefitted from the EU, it's Germany.

  14. @Almost Missouri
    Sounds like a great idea. Then the EU would consist of Germany and ...

    ... maybe Belgium?

    Replies: @Samuel Skinner

    A united Europe is less likely to happen or to work then the United States and Canada unifying.

    • Replies: @Samuel Skinner
    @Samuel Skinner

    Apologies to Almost Missouri; this was supposed to be general reply. The failure for the Kalmar union to reform gives an idea of how likely European unity is.

  15. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:

    Notice how suddenly frank and unabashed Herr Schulz is in announcing this, knowing that the UK is just going out of the door.

    Well, for one thing it proves that UKIP, Farage, the Tory Eurosceptics, Enoch Powell etc etc were right all along – the ultimate (although hidden) objective of the EU was to eliminate the UK as a political state.

    • Replies: @Mitleser
    @Anonymous

    The objective "ever closer union" was never that hidden.

    , @BB753
    @Anonymous

    That's already happened 60 years ago, more or less.

  16. Also in EU news, the ECJ (European Court of Justice) has formally passed judgement that Poland, Hungary etc must turn black and Muslim – or face the consequences.

  17. > EU countries agreed to redistribute 120,000 asylum-seekers from Italy and Greece in 2015. The three countries, outvoted over the compulsory law, now face huge, daily fines unless they take their share.

    Wrong subject for the verb “agree.” It’s not “EU countries” but “25 of 28 EU countries.” Or “The Brussels apparatus, supported by the politicians of 25 of 28 EU countries.”

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @ic1000

    So called 'qualified majority voting' to decide urgent matters of national sovereignty was perhaps *the* most unacceptable facet of the 1992 Maastricht Treaty, which sparked off the long Conservative Party Eurosceptic revolt against the EU, in the UK.

    Replies: @JMcG

    , @Anonymous
    @ic1000

    Remember:

    A mere 70 years ago, there were assuredly not '120,000' blacks, browns, Muslims etc etc either in France or Britain.

    Need I say more?

  18. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Yan Shen

    You know, it strikes me that one way Europeanism could be more popular with European voters would be by being more pro-European and not quite so pro-Eritrean.
     
    Pan-Europeanism is one of those ideas that well intentioned but uh naive American white nationalists often like to promote or fantasize about. In reality it's not a particularly realistic thing, as anyone who's been paying attention to some of the recent ongoings in Europe may be aware, for the simple fact that outside of Germany, the UK, the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, and possibly France, the rest of Europe isn't particularly competitive in much.

    Seeing Greeks constantly protest and complain about the Germans and demanding reparations eerily parallels the way that blacks and whites interact in this country. One can easily imagine the Greek Ta Nehisi Coates penning masterpieces about how Greece is entitled to perpetual reparations and atonement from the Germans because violent and racist Germans brutalized Greek bodies back in the day. Sorry, did I say Germans? I meant uh people who thought they were Germans brutalized innocent Greek bodies during World War 2.

    Anyway, the Germans no more want to carry around Greek or Polish deadweight than productive Americans here want to blamed for all of the failings of blacks or Hispanics. As someone who isn't a huge fan of the current trend towards open borders globalization a la Bryan Caplan, my hope is that in areas like Europe, Asia, Africa, etc. where traditional ethnic nation states have reigned, we can continue to embrace the self-determination of peoples.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @bomag, @backup, @Random Lurker, @songbird, @Expletive Deleted, @Eric Novak

    I’ve long held the opinion that European federalism holds such a deep sway amongst certain elements of the European political class due to a secret and unadmitted ‘United States envy’.
    Power is what drives these people. They see others having ultimate power and want a bit of it themselves.
    It really *is* as shallow and childish as that.

    • Replies: @Charles Pewitt
    @Anonymous

    Ultimate power is the nuclear weapon option. France has it; so does Britain, although the Brits may have to get the green light and the codes to launch from the military leaders of the American Empire.

    Germany will soon acquire a nuclear deterrent as an easily understood means to signal the re-attainment of national sovereignty. This will happen within ten years. The American Empire will be out of Europe in under ten years.

    The European Union is a dodo bird. The European Central Bank is a dead man walking.

    Baby boomer globalizers Martin Schulz and Angela Merkel will be lucky to escape out of Germany in one piece once the young Germans start reclaiming their homeland.

    Political power comes before money power

    Nuclear weapons are the ultimate form of political power

    , @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    QUOTE: I’ve long held the opinion that European federalism holds such a deep sway amongst certain elements of the European political class due to a secret and unadmitted ‘United States envy’.

    The other factor is a vast pedophile sex/murder network supplying EU politicians and bureaucrats. Only one corner of this network came to public notice through the case of MARC DUTROUX.

  19. @ic1000
    > EU countries agreed to redistribute 120,000 asylum-seekers from Italy and Greece in 2015. The three countries, outvoted over the compulsory law, now face huge, daily fines unless they take their share.

    Wrong subject for the verb "agree." It's not "EU countries" but "25 of 28 EU countries." Or "The Brussels apparatus, supported by the politicians of 25 of 28 EU countries."

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous

    So called ‘qualified majority voting’ to decide urgent matters of national sovereignty was perhaps *the* most unacceptable facet of the 1992 Maastricht Treaty, which sparked off the long Conservative Party Eurosceptic revolt against the EU, in the UK.

    • Replies: @JMcG
    @Anonymous

    Ireland voted against the Lisbon Treaty in 2008, a result which prompted a rapid do-over. They were most concerned about their loudly proclaimed neutrality.
    Watch them bend over backwards to embrace the new European Overlordship. They wont be allowed neutrality then. The recent film , “Siege of Jadotville” is battlespace Prep.
    My Irish friends and relations will do an immediate 180 degree turn from impartial neutrality to a moral imperative to act.
    The treaty passed on the second vote of course.

  20. anon • Disclaimer says:

    99% of what was possible to get out of a politically unified Europe was achieved by militarily unifying them under the banner of NATO. When they effectively disarmed. No NATO member could mount a serious offensive threat against another NATO member.

    It has made it enormously popular to disarm by cheating on their theoretical commitments to spend on the military. And as long as everyone was doing it, why not.

    The rest of it? Not so much.

    By they way — 90% of the disarmament benefit was achieved by keeping Germany, France, and UK from beefing up their defense. So — no need to even expand NATO. In fact, huge mistake … per George Kennan, among others.

  21. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Lurker
    @Yan Shen

    But no mainstream politician wanting European union is pro-white or anything close to it. They appear to yearn for the day Europe is majority non-white.

    As Steve highlights, it would be fascinating to see what a pro-European Europe looked like.

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @Anonymous

    Anyhow, things are too far gone.

    It is, more or less a certainty, that France, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Denmark, the UK etc etc will be inhabited by a majority non ethnic European stock by 2100.

    Perhaps the last chance of ensuring a European Europe was with Helmut Schmidt back in the ’70s who made noises to that effect. An older, wiser un-PC pussy-whipped generation.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @Anonymous

    True. But try a lot sooner than 2100. Maybe 2050.

  22. @Yan Shen

    The man who could be Germany’s vice-chancellor within weeks on Thursday called for the European Union to transform itself into a “United States of Europe”.
     
    Is this necessarily a good idea? One of the pain points surrounding the Euro has been the clear difference in competitiveness between Northwestern Europe and Southern Europe and the ensuing discussions about the supposed cultural tendency of Southern Europeans towards indolence.

    Just look at how much Greeks hate the Germans today, what with their constant demands of reparations for WW2 and their protests against Berlin.

    http://greece.greekreporter.com/2017/08/19/president-pavlopoulos-brings-back-germanys-wwii-reparations-issue/

    One of the interesting things about American white nationalism is that most white Americans don't really identify with whatever European ethnicities their ancestors were way back in the day. In a highly multi-racial society like America, the most obvious divisions are along racial lines. So most white Americans think of themselves as white. On the other hand Europeans obviously tend to have a greater sense of ethnic nationalism.

    Historically, European whites have tended to view other European whites somewhat warily, in particular when viewed along the Northern/Southern/Eastern European split. Even in Europe today, in the more developed countries, nuisance points include say Romanian hookers and not merely just black or muslim refugees.

    Which is of course why I stated in an earlier thread that classical HBD in the days of men like Madison Grant or Lothrop Stoddard was far more interesting than a lot of the things you read about today... Clear schisms exist today in Europe along the North/South/East split, so it's always somewhat amusing when white nationalist Americans think of pan-white as some kind of Utopia...

    Replies: @Lurker, @bomag, @Bill B.

    Clear schisms exist today in Europe along the North/South/East split, so it’s always somewhat amusing when white nationalist Americans think of pan-white as some kind of Utopia…

    It is not offered as a utopia; it is offered as something better than having your culture and heritage displaced by a foreigner from far away.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @bomag

    Exactly. We are not choosing between utopia and current trends. We are choosing between current disastrous trends and something far less bad, and maybe workable with great effort and compromise.

  23. @Yan Shen
    @BB753

    Germany dominating uncompetitive Southern and Eastern European countries and incurring their wrath and resentment is one of those things that casts doubt on the Utopia of pan-white Europeanism.

    Instead of black and Hispanic Americans complaining about white Americans or white Americans complaining about East Asian Americans, you'd just have Southern and Eastern Europeans complaining about the Germans, the British, and the Scandinavians.

    Replies: @bomag, @Chrisnonymous, @IBC, @RadicalCenter, @ThreeCranes

    Instead of black and Hispanic Americans complaining about white Americans or white Americans complaining about East Asian Americans, you’d just have Southern and Eastern Europeans complaining about the Germans, the British, and the Scandinavians.

    One of those seems markedly preferable to the other.

  24. @Samuel Skinner
    @Almost Missouri

    A united Europe is less likely to happen or to work then the United States and Canada unifying.

    Replies: @Samuel Skinner

    Apologies to Almost Missouri; this was supposed to be general reply. The failure for the Kalmar union to reform gives an idea of how likely European unity is.

  25. @Yan Shen

    You know, it strikes me that one way Europeanism could be more popular with European voters would be by being more pro-European and not quite so pro-Eritrean.
     
    Pan-Europeanism is one of those ideas that well intentioned but uh naive American white nationalists often like to promote or fantasize about. In reality it's not a particularly realistic thing, as anyone who's been paying attention to some of the recent ongoings in Europe may be aware, for the simple fact that outside of Germany, the UK, the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, and possibly France, the rest of Europe isn't particularly competitive in much.

    Seeing Greeks constantly protest and complain about the Germans and demanding reparations eerily parallels the way that blacks and whites interact in this country. One can easily imagine the Greek Ta Nehisi Coates penning masterpieces about how Greece is entitled to perpetual reparations and atonement from the Germans because violent and racist Germans brutalized Greek bodies back in the day. Sorry, did I say Germans? I meant uh people who thought they were Germans brutalized innocent Greek bodies during World War 2.

    Anyway, the Germans no more want to carry around Greek or Polish deadweight than productive Americans here want to blamed for all of the failings of blacks or Hispanics. As someone who isn't a huge fan of the current trend towards open borders globalization a la Bryan Caplan, my hope is that in areas like Europe, Asia, Africa, etc. where traditional ethnic nation states have reigned, we can continue to embrace the self-determination of peoples.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @bomag, @backup, @Random Lurker, @songbird, @Expletive Deleted, @Eric Novak

    Pan-Europeanism is one of those ideas that well intentioned but naive… like to promote or fantasize about

    Uh, nationalists by definition advocate local control with smaller, more coherent states.

    If pan-Europeanism is advocated, it is usually an alliance of convenience to counter an outside threat.

    It is the liberal/progressive types who advocate for a questionable pan-worldism; pan-speciesism; etc.

  26. @Yan Shen
    @Lurker


    As Steve highlights, it would be fascinating to see what a pro-European Europe looked like.
     
    History provides a fairly good example of what a pro-European Europe could look like. There was something called World War 2, during which numerous Europeans killed other Europeans. In particular Adolf Hitler seemed quite hellbent on wiping Eastern Europeans off the face of the planet.

    Replies: @bomag, @Anonymous, @Issac

    History provides a fairly good example of what a pro-European Europe could look like. There was something called World War 2…

    There is a whole lot more to Europe than WW2.

    There has been plenty of conflict and body counts in Asia and Africa based on the same WW2 mentality; such are not used to suggest they abolish themselves.

    For that matter, the current anti-European Europe looks like a slow motion WW3 with displacement from Islam/Africa et al that augers civilizational destruction far beyond WW2.

  27. Plus ca change and all that…

    “Ve haf vays off mekking you Volkers part of der glorious Reich!”

  28. @BB753
    We don't need another German Reich. Not only Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic, but also France, Italy and other European nations would pull out of the Union if such a proposal ever came to pass. But some German puppet states would definitely agree to make it official.
    The new European Federal Union could declare Islam its official religion and ask Turkey to join.

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @The Alarmist, @YetAnotherAnon, @German_reader

    Visegrad are extremely pleased to get all the EU money that used to flow to French/Spanish/Irish farmers, also extremely pleased that lots of companies are setting up there for low wages (e.g. the iconic Brit brand Twinings Tea, which wants Brits to buy their tea but doesn’t want to pay them to process and package it), and they love the Western tourists coming to their relatively safe cities.

    (Who wants to go to Paris on Eurostar and run risk of terrorist attack plus the certainty of running the North African gauntlet at Gare du Nord, when you can fly to Budapest?)

    On the other hand they quite like Poland being full of Poles and Hungary full of Hungarians. Their leaders are aligned with their people, not against them.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Good observations, sir.

    I can confirm that our family probably will never visit London, Paris, Stockholm, and Rome as I had always hoped to do, for precisely the reason that you mentioned.

    We will redirect our time, money, and attention instead to any remaining European countries that maintain a solidly white population and a civilized European culture, protect the safety and peace of mind of their own people, and make fellow civilized visitors safe and welcome. Hopefully Poland, Hungary, maybe Czech Repub and Slovakia and Austria, not many more from the looks of it.

    Even more specifically, I have german heritage and know a fair amount of their language, and our kids have been learning it from a very young age. But we are so disgusted with the Germans, and so pessimistic about their very will to survive as a nation (not just a "country"), that we are beginning to doubt whether it's worth the effort. They could instead learn the language of some kindred people who seem to love their own people and desire to remain who they are, such as (so far) Poland, even Russia.

    Who exactly will our kids be able to speak German with in 25 years and 40 years from now? A motley group of less intelligent, less productive, less attractive, less culturally compatible half Africans or half Arabs and/or Muslims who don't share our genes, our history, our legends and heroes, our values, mores, hopes, expectations, sense of humor, sense of fairness, etc.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @YetAnotherAnon

  29. @Yan Shen

    You know, it strikes me that one way Europeanism could be more popular with European voters would be by being more pro-European and not quite so pro-Eritrean.
     
    Pan-Europeanism is one of those ideas that well intentioned but uh naive American white nationalists often like to promote or fantasize about. In reality it's not a particularly realistic thing, as anyone who's been paying attention to some of the recent ongoings in Europe may be aware, for the simple fact that outside of Germany, the UK, the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, and possibly France, the rest of Europe isn't particularly competitive in much.

    Seeing Greeks constantly protest and complain about the Germans and demanding reparations eerily parallels the way that blacks and whites interact in this country. One can easily imagine the Greek Ta Nehisi Coates penning masterpieces about how Greece is entitled to perpetual reparations and atonement from the Germans because violent and racist Germans brutalized Greek bodies back in the day. Sorry, did I say Germans? I meant uh people who thought they were Germans brutalized innocent Greek bodies during World War 2.

    Anyway, the Germans no more want to carry around Greek or Polish deadweight than productive Americans here want to blamed for all of the failings of blacks or Hispanics. As someone who isn't a huge fan of the current trend towards open borders globalization a la Bryan Caplan, my hope is that in areas like Europe, Asia, Africa, etc. where traditional ethnic nation states have reigned, we can continue to embrace the self-determination of peoples.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @bomag, @backup, @Random Lurker, @songbird, @Expletive Deleted, @Eric Novak

    “Germany, the UK, the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, and possibly France”

    What do these have in common? (BTW you can add Switzerland, North-Italy and Austria to that)

  30. @Yan Shen
    @Lurker


    As Steve highlights, it would be fascinating to see what a pro-European Europe looked like.
     
    History provides a fairly good example of what a pro-European Europe could look like. There was something called World War 2, during which numerous Europeans killed other Europeans. In particular Adolf Hitler seemed quite hellbent on wiping Eastern Europeans off the face of the planet.

    Replies: @bomag, @Anonymous, @Issac

    If you prefaced your remarks with “Dear Fellow White People” your amateur revisionism would be more entertaining.

  31. Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic will be punished if they don’t accept hordes of third-world migrants, and they will be punished if they do. It sort of makes sense that they might be irritated.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @Anonymous

    Love to see Poland, Hungary, Czech, Austria, and Slovakia all declare their exit from the EU at once. Laugh in the face of the Germans and the French. Wish them "good luck with your sharia, start growing those beards and Sticking your asses up in the air five times a days now (and not just for prayer, judging from your 'men.'). Send postcards and tell us how it goes."

  32. Martin Schulz is a baby boomer globalizer who does the bidding of transnational plutocrats. Young Germans who have seen their particular cohort demographically swamped with foreigners will soon be removing treasonous shyster rats like Martin Schulz from power.

    Merkel and Schulz are propped up by the European Central Bank and the monetary extremism it is engaged in. When the European Union disintegrates, and the euro zone implodes, the Germans will be forced to go back to the deutsche mark, and that is when the young Germans will savagely retaliate against the treasonous rats like Merkel and Schulz.

    The Alternative for Deutschland political party will soon be the main power in Germany and Merkel and Schulz will be in exile in the Congo.

    • Replies: @Old Palo Altan
    @Charles Pewitt

    The great thing to remember abut the Germans is this: when they get mad, they get really mad.

    I doubt that either Merkel or Schulz or the rest will be given the option of mere exile.

    , @RadicalCenter
    @Charles Pewitt

    I wish that were plausible, but it is mere wishful thinking.

    Fewer than ten percent of voters, of any age, voted for the AfD in most States in the former West Germany.

    In the federal parliamentary (Bundestag) election just held, the AfD got good percentages only in the former DDR, East Germany, which is greatly outweighed by the western part in votes, money, and influence.

    Similar results for most recent elections to the state legislatures (Landtag). Eastern Germany plus southern Germany (Baden-Wuerttenberg and Bavaria) gave decent totals to the AfD, elsewhere they mostly got slaughtered. Germans in most of western Germany refuse to wake up no matter what the Muslims and Africans do to them and even their wives and children (to the extent that the deracinated self hating little pussies even have children).

    State legislative results for Germany 2017:
    https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/320946/umfrage/ergebnisse-der-afd-bei-den-landtagswahlen/

  33. It wasn’t until May 29, 1790, thirteen months after George Washington was sworn into office, that Rhode Island ratified the U.S. Constitution. What if “Rogue’s Island” never did join the American union? Has a tiny independent nation between Connecticut and Massachusetts ever been included in one of those speculative histories where southern secession succeeds and such?

    Which countries would give up the EU rather than join a United States of Europe?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @John Mansfield


    Which countries would give up the EU rather than join a United States of Europe?
     
    You have to keep in mind that the people of those countries are not going to be asked (after Brexit there aren't going to be any more referenda in Europe). The decision will be made by the political class. As long as there's plenty of room for the political classes to get their snouts in the trough in Brussels they'll accept anything.
  34. I don’t think a (politically) united Europe was as bad an idea as people here made it out, but they went about it completely the wrong way -people even said this when the decisions were being made- and there may be too many horses out of the barn to go back and do it right now.

    What they really wanted was a union of France and Germany, which would have been joined by the Benelux countries. Other countries that could have reasonably joined in the future would have been Italy -such an entity could have handled one messed up country- and Austria and the Czechs.

    Just recreated Charlemagne’s kingdom, and it helps that this area has been unified in the past, under Charlemagne. Administratively, they all use the Napoleonic code and Napoleonic style bureaucratic procedures. And this is what the early European Common Market consisted of. The big mistake was allowing Britain to join and one of the reasons Britain wanted in was to make sure this emerging entity didn’t work.

    People like Schultz (sp?) should also be relieved that the British are finally leaving instead of wanting to wage revenge economic warfare on them.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @eD


    Just recreated Charlemagne’s kingdom, and it helps that this area has been unified in the past, under Charlemagne.
     
    Charlemagne was a tyrant, and we're no longer living in the 8th century.
    Personally I think a political union for even Germany, France and the Benelux countries is a ridiculous idea, the differences are too great.

    Replies: @Lars Porsena

    , @Anonymous
    @eD

    The big flaw with your argument is that the virtual entirety of the British political class, the elites - and most importantly of all, The Economics magazine fought tooth-and-nail to keep Britain in the EU.

    Anyone who lives here can testify to the vehemence with the which the Remain side uttered their rammed egregious lies - and also the rabid lunatic - and tiresome - fanaticism in trying to undermine the referendum result.

    Replies: @eD

    , @Bill B.
    @eD


    Just recreated Charlemagne’s kingdom, and it helps that this area has been unified in the past, under Charlemagne. Administratively, they all use the Napoleonic code and Napoleonic style bureaucratic procedures. And this is what the early European Common Market consisted of. The big mistake was allowing Britain to join and one of the reasons Britain wanted in was to make sure this emerging entity didn’t work.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE

    Up to a point Lord Copper. The pro-EU zealots wanted in for Big Government, Federal Europe, nation downgrading reasons that were absolutely not mentioned at the time.

    Their fear that the UK might be left out in the cold was there but not the primary cause.

    By the way I think the extremely clever Yes Minister series did great harm to Britain in that it encouraged the idiots in New Labour and elsewhere to undermine and bypass what was an extremely competant if unshowy civil service.

    The result is that the UK is now under great stress attempting (rightly in my view) to extricate itself from the EU upon which it has habituated itself to lazily lean on.

    , @Art Deco
    @eD

    Just recreated Charlemagne’s kingdom, and it helps that this area has been unified in the past, under Charlemagne.

    I.e. 12 centuries ago.

    The Frankish Kingdoms held some Swabian and Rhenish territory for several centuries. Anything beyond that was held for < 70 years before the Frankish realms were definitively partitioned in 843. A large bloc of Germanic territory the Frankish kings never held.

    Replies: @mobi

  35. @Anonymous

    more pro-European and not quite so pro-Eritrean
     
    Or pro-Burkina-Fasoan

    Macron went on an absolute tear: flipped Invade-Invite on its head, then stomped on it -- that is, Invite -- in front of a crowd of horrified neoliberal ex-fans.

    https://twitter.com/OnlyAfricaFacts/status/938877344374231041

    Replies: @Anonymous, @BB753, @Bill, @Eric Novak

    Oh, look, it’s Sista Soulja.

  36. Anonymous [AKA "Killyekfael"] says:

    Make the EU great again, trump for EU presidency in 2025

  37. @Yan Shen

    You know, it strikes me that one way Europeanism could be more popular with European voters would be by being more pro-European and not quite so pro-Eritrean.
     
    Pan-Europeanism is one of those ideas that well intentioned but uh naive American white nationalists often like to promote or fantasize about. In reality it's not a particularly realistic thing, as anyone who's been paying attention to some of the recent ongoings in Europe may be aware, for the simple fact that outside of Germany, the UK, the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, and possibly France, the rest of Europe isn't particularly competitive in much.

    Seeing Greeks constantly protest and complain about the Germans and demanding reparations eerily parallels the way that blacks and whites interact in this country. One can easily imagine the Greek Ta Nehisi Coates penning masterpieces about how Greece is entitled to perpetual reparations and atonement from the Germans because violent and racist Germans brutalized Greek bodies back in the day. Sorry, did I say Germans? I meant uh people who thought they were Germans brutalized innocent Greek bodies during World War 2.

    Anyway, the Germans no more want to carry around Greek or Polish deadweight than productive Americans here want to blamed for all of the failings of blacks or Hispanics. As someone who isn't a huge fan of the current trend towards open borders globalization a la Bryan Caplan, my hope is that in areas like Europe, Asia, Africa, etc. where traditional ethnic nation states have reigned, we can continue to embrace the self-determination of peoples.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @bomag, @backup, @Random Lurker, @songbird, @Expletive Deleted, @Eric Novak

    I’m glad to see somebody else express this. Ethno-nationalism for traditional ethno-states (Britain for the British, Poland for the Polish, Japan for the Japanese, etc.) if thats what the majority of the people desire. Some form of civic nationalism for the New World (United States, Canada, Australia, etc.) Not excluding immigrants based on ethnic background, but only letting in those that can support themselves and are willing to embrace Western values.

  38. @BB753
    @Anonymous

    There are plenty of non-student non-working Africans in France. Thousands of them unwilling or unable to even complete middle-school.
    Hell, what is the lady implying, that African universities are not top-notch?

    Replies: @Autochthon

    His answer was well-played, in any event.

  39. German_reader says:
    @BB753
    We don't need another German Reich. Not only Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic, but also France, Italy and other European nations would pull out of the Union if such a proposal ever came to pass. But some German puppet states would definitely agree to make it official.
    The new European Federal Union could declare Islam its official religion and ask Turkey to join.

    Replies: @Yan Shen, @The Alarmist, @YetAnotherAnon, @German_reader

    but also France, Italy and other European nations would pull out of the Union if such a proposal ever came to pass

    Looks very different from Germany, more like such a United states of Europe would be a mechanism for France to make us hand over even more money.

    • Replies: @BB753
    @German_reader

    Ok, maybe so but Germany always has the last word. The French give up power and sovereignty in exchange for subsidies.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

  40. The man who could be Germany’s vice-chancellor within weeks on Thursday called for the European Union to transform itself into a “United States of Europe”.

    I suspect the aspect of the United States he most wants to copy is the part where the EU president sends his army on a march through the eastern countries on their way to burning Warsaw in reprisal for not taking in their quota of immivaders, and sends his navy to blockade recalcitrant Britons until they give up on their crazy idea of Brexit; perhaps also the part where the high court turns over voter supported laws willy-nilly based on whatever the Davos crowd happens to want (though they probably already have some version of that in place).

    The other countries in Europe should look at how EU leaders are openly trying to strangle Great Britain as it attempts to leave the EU. This is not a marriage they will ever get out of alive. But I guess even Ted Bundy still had his adoring female fans. Eastern Europe may be poor, but I’ll bet a union of the Eastern European countries could do quite well, especially if it had support from the UK as a way to undermine what remained of the German-dominated EU.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @JollyOldSoul

    I suspect the aspect of the United States he most wants to copy is the part where the EU president sends his army on a march through the eastern countries on their way to burning Warsaw in reprisal for not taking in their quota of immivaders, and sends his navy to blockade recalcitrant Britons until they give up on their crazy idea of Brexit;

    The last blockade run by the U.S. Navy was during the Cuban missile crisis in 1962. Places since 1945 where the Army and Marines have been in combat for more than a few days would be Korea, South VietNam, Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Two were facing military conquest by external powers, one was facing an insurgency run by an external power, one was responsible for a bizarre casus belli, and one we had been in a state of belligerency with for twelve years (after they stomped all over a neighboring state).

  41. German_reader says:
    @eD
    I don't think a (politically) united Europe was as bad an idea as people here made it out, but they went about it completely the wrong way -people even said this when the decisions were being made- and there may be too many horses out of the barn to go back and do it right now.

    What they really wanted was a union of France and Germany, which would have been joined by the Benelux countries. Other countries that could have reasonably joined in the future would have been Italy -such an entity could have handled one messed up country- and Austria and the Czechs.

    Just recreated Charlemagne's kingdom, and it helps that this area has been unified in the past, under Charlemagne. Administratively, they all use the Napoleonic code and Napoleonic style bureaucratic procedures. And this is what the early European Common Market consisted of. The big mistake was allowing Britain to join and one of the reasons Britain wanted in was to make sure this emerging entity didn't work.

    People like Schultz (sp?) should also be relieved that the British are finally leaving instead of wanting to wage revenge economic warfare on them.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Anonymous, @Bill B., @Art Deco

    Just recreated Charlemagne’s kingdom, and it helps that this area has been unified in the past, under Charlemagne.

    Charlemagne was a tyrant, and we’re no longer living in the 8th century.
    Personally I think a political union for even Germany, France and the Benelux countries is a ridiculous idea, the differences are too great.

    • Replies: @Lars Porsena
    @German_reader

    Actually Charlemagne was a viking. Like most barbarian empires of it's time it was not really a centralized empire but more like a Central European Treaty Organization. It was a very loose federation. If they had built the EU like the HRE it probably would have worked. Charlemagne demanded tribute and conscripts. He never got involved in actually trying to manage or regulate any of the countries in the HRE. What they did was their own business, so long as they were paying taxes.

    The HRE was a loose enough federation that it could exist, for most of it's long existence, even though almost all of it's member states were all at war with each other.

    Replies: @German_reader

  42. Why don’t they want the Germans to unite them again?

    “At the end of 1942, Europe was more politically united than ever
    before. From the North Cape to Alani in Southern Greece, from Brittany to
    the peaks of the Caucasus, a vast area was under the tutelage of a single
    political system. ”
    “Europe as Viewed from the Margins An EastCentral European Perspective from World War in to the Cold War”

  43. @Yan Shen
    @BB753

    Germany dominating uncompetitive Southern and Eastern European countries and incurring their wrath and resentment is one of those things that casts doubt on the Utopia of pan-white Europeanism.

    Instead of black and Hispanic Americans complaining about white Americans or white Americans complaining about East Asian Americans, you'd just have Southern and Eastern Europeans complaining about the Germans, the British, and the Scandinavians.

    Replies: @bomag, @Chrisnonymous, @IBC, @RadicalCenter, @ThreeCranes

    Instead of… white Americans complaining about East Asian Americans, you’d just have Southern and Eastern Europeans complaining about the Germans, the British, and the Scandinavians.

    White Americans don’t complain about Asians, it’s just we complain about you.

  44. @Anonymous
    Notice how suddenly frank and unabashed Herr Schulz is in announcing this, knowing that the UK is just going out of the door.


    Well, for one thing it proves that UKIP, Farage, the Tory Eurosceptics, Enoch Powell etc etc were right all along - the ultimate (although hidden) objective of the EU was to eliminate the UK as a political state.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @BB753

    The objective “ever closer union” was never that hidden.

  45. Becoming increasingly clear that the EU is really just the Fourth Reich – a German project for the domination of Europe and the imposition of bizarre programs on the hapless European population. Except that now instead of Nazis, we have freaks like Merkel, Schulz, and Scheuble.

    “European values” my ass. Just over a 100-150 years ago, Gladstone delivered a broadside against the Turk and the malign Muslim influence on Europe; Hillaire Belloc wrote “Europe is the Church and the Church is Europe”; and Kipling extolled, among other things, the effort of the British to bring light and culture to the darkest corners of the world. And now we have amoral historical illiterates govern from the shadows and try to import strange barbarians from across the sea like so many slabs of meat. Humans are neither meat nor mere animals – you can’t just ship them around in boxcars.

    A European Federation could work. But not under the present dogmas.

  46. @Yan Shen

    You know, it strikes me that one way Europeanism could be more popular with European voters would be by being more pro-European and not quite so pro-Eritrean.
     
    Pan-Europeanism is one of those ideas that well intentioned but uh naive American white nationalists often like to promote or fantasize about. In reality it's not a particularly realistic thing, as anyone who's been paying attention to some of the recent ongoings in Europe may be aware, for the simple fact that outside of Germany, the UK, the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, and possibly France, the rest of Europe isn't particularly competitive in much.

    Seeing Greeks constantly protest and complain about the Germans and demanding reparations eerily parallels the way that blacks and whites interact in this country. One can easily imagine the Greek Ta Nehisi Coates penning masterpieces about how Greece is entitled to perpetual reparations and atonement from the Germans because violent and racist Germans brutalized Greek bodies back in the day. Sorry, did I say Germans? I meant uh people who thought they were Germans brutalized innocent Greek bodies during World War 2.

    Anyway, the Germans no more want to carry around Greek or Polish deadweight than productive Americans here want to blamed for all of the failings of blacks or Hispanics. As someone who isn't a huge fan of the current trend towards open borders globalization a la Bryan Caplan, my hope is that in areas like Europe, Asia, Africa, etc. where traditional ethnic nation states have reigned, we can continue to embrace the self-determination of peoples.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @bomag, @backup, @Random Lurker, @songbird, @Expletive Deleted, @Eric Novak

    What is really amusing to me are the people (mostly very white liberals) trying to split off Southern Europeans in an obvious attempt to add their numbers into their anti-white coalition.

    Probably the best example of this is the old Hercules TV show with Kevin Sorbo. People now complain about it quite often, though I don’t think anyone did back in the day. They complain about Sorbo though the show had many black extras on it. Though Hercules half-sister, Aphrodite was often depicted being blonde in classical times. Though one of his other half-sisters is often called the Grey-eyed Goddess. Though it was obviously convenience casting and totally apolitical. Their complaints are so transparent because they made no outcry when he was played by the black-Samoan, the Rock.

    Greeks and Italians had high civilization. For one thing, their art is objectively superior to anything found outside of Europe. Some believe that the Ashkenazi picked up their high IQ genes from Southern Europe. The political and economic differences might be real and significant, but it is still obviously civilization, with the hope of progress.

    • Replies: @Nico
    @songbird


    What is really amusing to me are the people (mostly very white liberals) trying to split off Southern Europeans in an obvious attempt to add their numbers into their anti-white coalition.
     
    Actually, if anything it's the other way around: Southern Europeans want to be seen as "Mediterranean" instead of "white" if at all possible and still have their Christian Greco-Roman civilization. So far, that doesn't fly with liberals, not to mention with any actual POCs anywhere.

    Replies: @Anon

  47. Patrick Henry style, is motto might as well be “Give me “United States of Europe by 2025 or give me death.” Meanwhile has he noticed what is going on in the United States of America?

  48. EU countries agree to redistribute 120,000 asylum seekers. Hmmm, what better country to handle the relocation of these wretched refuges than Germany. Maybe, first to camps and then, poof. Ashes.

  49. EU countries agree to redistribute 120,000 asylum seekers. Hmmm, what better country to handle the relocation of these wretched refuges than Germany. Maybe, first to camps and then, poof. Ashes.

  50. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @eD
    I don't think a (politically) united Europe was as bad an idea as people here made it out, but they went about it completely the wrong way -people even said this when the decisions were being made- and there may be too many horses out of the barn to go back and do it right now.

    What they really wanted was a union of France and Germany, which would have been joined by the Benelux countries. Other countries that could have reasonably joined in the future would have been Italy -such an entity could have handled one messed up country- and Austria and the Czechs.

    Just recreated Charlemagne's kingdom, and it helps that this area has been unified in the past, under Charlemagne. Administratively, they all use the Napoleonic code and Napoleonic style bureaucratic procedures. And this is what the early European Common Market consisted of. The big mistake was allowing Britain to join and one of the reasons Britain wanted in was to make sure this emerging entity didn't work.

    People like Schultz (sp?) should also be relieved that the British are finally leaving instead of wanting to wage revenge economic warfare on them.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Anonymous, @Bill B., @Art Deco

    The big flaw with your argument is that the virtual entirety of the British political class, the elites – and most importantly of all, The Economics magazine fought tooth-and-nail to keep Britain in the EU.

    Anyone who lives here can testify to the vehemence with the which the Remain side uttered their rammed egregious lies – and also the rabid lunatic – and tiresome – fanaticism in trying to undermine the referendum result.

    • Agree: jim jones
    • Replies: @eD
    @Anonymous

    "The big flaw with your argument is that the virtual entirety of the British political class, the elites – and most importantly of all, The Economics magazine fought tooth-and-nail to keep Britain in the EU."

    No, but they did it to destroy the EU, not to save it.

    The British ruling classes have also been doing a favor to the US deep state, which wants pan European institutions, but weak ones, for reasons that should be obvious if you think about it for a few minutes.
    The only value of the British to the American deep state is as a sort of cat's paw in Europe, so they are all in. They have missed out on opportunities to carve out an identity or position of strength not dependent on the USA.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Anonymous

  51. @ic1000
    > EU countries agreed to redistribute 120,000 asylum-seekers from Italy and Greece in 2015. The three countries, outvoted over the compulsory law, now face huge, daily fines unless they take their share.

    Wrong subject for the verb "agree." It's not "EU countries" but "25 of 28 EU countries." Or "The Brussels apparatus, supported by the politicians of 25 of 28 EU countries."

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anonymous

    Remember:

    A mere 70 years ago, there were assuredly not ‘120,000’ blacks, browns, Muslims etc etc either in France or Britain.

    Need I say more?

  52. Democracy only works when voters and politicians feel close enough for their to be trust on one side and a sense of responsibility on the other.

    The ideal of the EU state is to separate both groups; a situation where nobody has anything in common with their representatives and where no representative feels he owns anything to anybody because his constituents are everybody and therefore nobody.

    A caste who have power because they have power; who think in a language you don’t understand, who lived their lives in places you’ve never heard of and who built their careers in a society of which you’ll never know the rules.

    I think we’re all underestimating how grim it’s going to be.

    • Agree: dfordoom
  53. Poland, Hungary, Austria, the Czechs and Slovakians should accept any ‘refugees’ the EU cares to send and promptly frog march them to the airport and send them back home or to any nation outside Europe who will take them.

  54. @The Alarmist
    @BB753

    Nah, what you'd get is a show administered by the French-speakers and paid for by the Germans ... oh, and the English, now that I've heard about T. May offering England's Treasury up to a buggering by Brussels.

    Schultz seems to thing the periphery are more interested in the dope flowing from Brussels rathering than getting off the junk and living their own lives clean of the EU. Remains to be seen ... too close to call. If it were a layup, the Visigrad would already be out.

    Replies: @BB753

    Do you really believe that France leads the EU and that Macron is the new Napoleon? I don’t. If there’s one country that’s benefitted from the EU, it’s Germany.

  55. @Yan Shen

    The man who could be Germany’s vice-chancellor within weeks on Thursday called for the European Union to transform itself into a “United States of Europe”.
     
    Is this necessarily a good idea? One of the pain points surrounding the Euro has been the clear difference in competitiveness between Northwestern Europe and Southern Europe and the ensuing discussions about the supposed cultural tendency of Southern Europeans towards indolence.

    Just look at how much Greeks hate the Germans today, what with their constant demands of reparations for WW2 and their protests against Berlin.

    http://greece.greekreporter.com/2017/08/19/president-pavlopoulos-brings-back-germanys-wwii-reparations-issue/

    One of the interesting things about American white nationalism is that most white Americans don't really identify with whatever European ethnicities their ancestors were way back in the day. In a highly multi-racial society like America, the most obvious divisions are along racial lines. So most white Americans think of themselves as white. On the other hand Europeans obviously tend to have a greater sense of ethnic nationalism.

    Historically, European whites have tended to view other European whites somewhat warily, in particular when viewed along the Northern/Southern/Eastern European split. Even in Europe today, in the more developed countries, nuisance points include say Romanian hookers and not merely just black or muslim refugees.

    Which is of course why I stated in an earlier thread that classical HBD in the days of men like Madison Grant or Lothrop Stoddard was far more interesting than a lot of the things you read about today... Clear schisms exist today in Europe along the North/South/East split, so it's always somewhat amusing when white nationalist Americans think of pan-white as some kind of Utopia...

    Replies: @Lurker, @bomag, @Bill B.

    so it’s always somewhat amusing when white nationalist Americans think of pan-white as some kind of Utopia…

    Just as amusing as those who think of the han Chineseas making up a civilisation?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Bill B.


    Just as amusing as those who think of the han Chineseas making up a civilisation?

     

    The Han Chinese are a hell of a lot more homogeneous than just white Americans, let alone Old Country whites. Even though "Chinese" is really five or six different languages, they see themselves as a unity, Sons of the Yellow Emperor.

    "White" is just a lowest common denominator. Real nations are a lot more specific, particular if you will.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  56. @Anonymous
    Notice how suddenly frank and unabashed Herr Schulz is in announcing this, knowing that the UK is just going out of the door.


    Well, for one thing it proves that UKIP, Farage, the Tory Eurosceptics, Enoch Powell etc etc were right all along - the ultimate (although hidden) objective of the EU was to eliminate the UK as a political state.

    Replies: @Mitleser, @BB753

    That’s already happened 60 years ago, more or less.

  57. Wouldn’t it be a great joke be on the left, if Germany managed to gain control of a new, federalized Europe…and then AfD won the next election?

    • Replies: @YetAnotherAnon
    @Kevin O'Keeffe

    "Wouldn’t it be a great joke be on the left, if Germany managed to gain control of a new, federalized Europe…and then AfD won the next election?"

    Then the AfD would probably find that they're in office, but not in power. The globalists are deeply entrenched in German and EU structures, just as they are in UK and US structures, media, academia, courts etc. UK's globalists (and their useful idiots) have been fighting against Brexit (and for the EU) for the past 18 months.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Karl

  58. European federation or bust.

    Schultz is a very stupid man, but he is on to something. Without constant expansion the unwieldy EU conglomerate will slowly wither away. There are 1,000 ‘elected’ reps in Brussels, plus maybe 100,ooo different officials, committees, brothers-in-law assigned to this or that office – it is a very good life and if nothing happens it could be jeopardised.

    Another way to look at it is that when a grand idea starts dying, there are always noisy last-minute enthusiasts insisting that a solution to everything is to double-down, to do more of what hasn’t worked. Schultz, a hapless baby-boomer moron, with all the wrong instincts, is perfect for that role.

    Let’s see: Orban or Schultz – who would win an EU-wide election between those two?

    • Replies: @Bill B.
    @Beckow


    Schultz is a very stupid man
     
    An often overlooked point. Here - and elsewhere.
  59. @Altai
    Most people wouldn't have minded it if it didn't include the now 11 former Warsaw pact countries that produce an unacceptable level of immigration to certain cities and if external borders were guarded.

    If any of these people think a big Europe with Ukraine and Turkey wouldn't have blown apart, I think they are just too dim and too old to understand things are different to when they were young and don't see the rapid and intolerable pace of these things. They're not young people trying to buy a house and navigate a social environment filled with alienating (And often people with low trust, mercenary attitudes) foreigners.

    As Yan Shen has noted, it's only an American idea of 'White nationalism'. That Richard Spencer doesn't understand why people in the UK would want to stop EU immigration (And not in a rhetorical way, the noise he makes betrays a total lack of understanding.) proves how detached America is from Europe.

    Replies: @Issac, @RadicalCenter

    The detachment in question is emanating from Europe. United Europe is considered absurd everywhere else. Spencer likes to buck that trend and for it he is roundly mocked. Confusing Spencerian flights of fancy with American dispositions proves the Europeans know very little likewise.

    • Replies: @Yan Shen
    @Issac

    Richard Spencer is hardly alone in this. Just look at Jared Taylor, Steve Sailer, or any of the other numerous American white nationalist bloggers and most of the commenters here. Sorry did I say uh white? I meant people who think they're white, obviously.

    I suspect most Europeans view Americans and in particular American white nationalists with a bit of amusement.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Karl, @Eric Novak

  60. @Yan Shen
    @Lurker


    As Steve highlights, it would be fascinating to see what a pro-European Europe looked like.
     
    History provides a fairly good example of what a pro-European Europe could look like. There was something called World War 2, during which numerous Europeans killed other Europeans. In particular Adolf Hitler seemed quite hellbent on wiping Eastern Europeans off the face of the planet.

    Replies: @bomag, @Anonymous, @Issac

    Mao was vastly more successful wiping out Chinese. Don’t be so modest. That’s quite a slant.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @Issac

    Pun intended.

  61. @Diversity Heretic
    How can Martin Schultz insist on pan-European conditions in the future as the price of joining a coalition in Germany in 2017? This sounds like a "non-starter" to me.

    Replies: @Frau Katze

    And he’s making the condition in the contex of a purely German election.

    He seems to be assuming that Germany runs the EU (and it does, but it’s bad taste to admit it).

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    @Frau Katze

    Thank you! You made my point better than I did.

  62. Wars have been fought for less.

    It’s a good thing, then, that the United States continues to maintain an army of occupation in Europe. We’ll need it in order to keep the expansionist Germans in check.

    https://benkurtzblog.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/brexit-and-the-u-s-army-of-occupation-in-europe/

    I’ve long believed that Europe would be better served with the German-speaking peoples divided up among at least 5 independent sovereign states (East Germany, West Germany-Ruhr, West Germany-Bavaria, Austria, Switzerland). The current Federal Republic of Germany is too big and powerful for its (and Europe’s) own good.

    • Replies: @Diversity Heretic
    @Ben Kurtz

    Europe may have been better off when "Germany" was the Holy Roman Empire. United Germany is really quite new: 1871 at the conclusion of the Franco-Prussian War of 1870. It's quite possible to argue that the Allies made a huge mistake in the Treaty of Versailles in breaking up the Austro-Hungarian empire but leaving Germany intact. The last Austro-Hungarian Emperor, Charles II tried to warn them but they wouldn't listen.

    , @RadicalCenter
    @Ben Kurtz

    We should likewise divide up Israel into pieces because of the massive influence it exercises in the USA and elsewhere. Don't you think so, Benjamin?

    , @RadicalCenter
    @Ben Kurtz

    I'm sure you have the best interests of the german and European people at heart. What a Mensch.

    Replies: @Ben Kurtz

  63. Whatever the form political institutions may take in Europe, only the Germans appear possessed of an enduring will to dominate them, and the ability to do so, if for the present in bad conscience.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @Jonathan Silber

    Germans mostly don't have children, don't allow themselves firearms for self defense, and are afraid to even tell the truth about who is raping, assaulting, robbing, and intimidating their own people. They can't even "dominate" their own land.

    The only people who could make modern Germans look dominant in the EU are the even more timid, confused, brainwashed pussies in France and Sweden.

  64. @eD
    I don't think a (politically) united Europe was as bad an idea as people here made it out, but they went about it completely the wrong way -people even said this when the decisions were being made- and there may be too many horses out of the barn to go back and do it right now.

    What they really wanted was a union of France and Germany, which would have been joined by the Benelux countries. Other countries that could have reasonably joined in the future would have been Italy -such an entity could have handled one messed up country- and Austria and the Czechs.

    Just recreated Charlemagne's kingdom, and it helps that this area has been unified in the past, under Charlemagne. Administratively, they all use the Napoleonic code and Napoleonic style bureaucratic procedures. And this is what the early European Common Market consisted of. The big mistake was allowing Britain to join and one of the reasons Britain wanted in was to make sure this emerging entity didn't work.

    People like Schultz (sp?) should also be relieved that the British are finally leaving instead of wanting to wage revenge economic warfare on them.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Anonymous, @Bill B., @Art Deco

    Just recreated Charlemagne’s kingdom, and it helps that this area has been unified in the past, under Charlemagne. Administratively, they all use the Napoleonic code and Napoleonic style bureaucratic procedures. And this is what the early European Common Market consisted of. The big mistake was allowing Britain to join and one of the reasons Britain wanted in was to make sure this emerging entity didn’t work.

    Up to a point Lord Copper. The pro-EU zealots wanted in for Big Government, Federal Europe, nation downgrading reasons that were absolutely not mentioned at the time.

    Their fear that the UK might be left out in the cold was there but not the primary cause.

    By the way I think the extremely clever Yes Minister series did great harm to Britain in that it encouraged the idiots in New Labour and elsewhere to undermine and bypass what was an extremely competant if unshowy civil service.

    The result is that the UK is now under great stress attempting (rightly in my view) to extricate itself from the EU upon which it has habituated itself to lazily lean on.

  65. @Anonymous
    @eD

    The big flaw with your argument is that the virtual entirety of the British political class, the elites - and most importantly of all, The Economics magazine fought tooth-and-nail to keep Britain in the EU.

    Anyone who lives here can testify to the vehemence with the which the Remain side uttered their rammed egregious lies - and also the rabid lunatic - and tiresome - fanaticism in trying to undermine the referendum result.

    Replies: @eD

    “The big flaw with your argument is that the virtual entirety of the British political class, the elites – and most importantly of all, The Economics magazine fought tooth-and-nail to keep Britain in the EU.”

    No, but they did it to destroy the EU, not to save it.

    The British ruling classes have also been doing a favor to the US deep state, which wants pan European institutions, but weak ones, for reasons that should be obvious if you think about it for a few minutes.
    The only value of the British to the American deep state is as a sort of cat’s paw in Europe, so they are all in. They have missed out on opportunities to carve out an identity or position of strength not dependent on the USA.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @eD

    Sir Humphrey Appleby was a fictional character.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvYuoWyk8iU

    , @Anonymous
    @eD

    The goal of the so-called EEC right from the get-go with the 1957 Treaty of Rome was always 'full monetary political and economic union' ie a federal Europe.
    British politicians were and are fully aware of this, and have maintained a policy of deliberate lies, deception, conning the public, duplicity etc, edging toward a federal Europe by degrees.
    I repeat the British political class and elites are/were fully and passionately committed to a federal Europe and the abolition of the UK as a political unit.

    Along with a few others, Enoch Powell said this from the beginning.

    Replies: @dfordoom

  66. @Beckow
    European federation or bust.

    Schultz is a very stupid man, but he is on to something. Without constant expansion the unwieldy EU conglomerate will slowly wither away. There are 1,000 'elected' reps in Brussels, plus maybe 100,ooo different officials, committees, brothers-in-law assigned to this or that office - it is a very good life and if nothing happens it could be jeopardised.

    Another way to look at it is that when a grand idea starts dying, there are always noisy last-minute enthusiasts insisting that a solution to everything is to double-down, to do more of what hasn't worked. Schultz, a hapless baby-boomer moron, with all the wrong instincts, is perfect for that role.

    Let's see: Orban or Schultz - who would win an EU-wide election between those two?

    Replies: @Bill B.

    Schultz is a very stupid man

    An often overlooked point. Here – and elsewhere.

  67. @JollyOldSoul
    The man who could be Germany’s vice-chancellor within weeks on Thursday called for the European Union to transform itself into a “United States of Europe”.

    I suspect the aspect of the United States he most wants to copy is the part where the EU president sends his army on a march through the eastern countries on their way to burning Warsaw in reprisal for not taking in their quota of immivaders, and sends his navy to blockade recalcitrant Britons until they give up on their crazy idea of Brexit; perhaps also the part where the high court turns over voter supported laws willy-nilly based on whatever the Davos crowd happens to want (though they probably already have some version of that in place).

    The other countries in Europe should look at how EU leaders are openly trying to strangle Great Britain as it attempts to leave the EU. This is not a marriage they will ever get out of alive. But I guess even Ted Bundy still had his adoring female fans. Eastern Europe may be poor, but I'll bet a union of the Eastern European countries could do quite well, especially if it had support from the UK as a way to undermine what remained of the German-dominated EU.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    I suspect the aspect of the United States he most wants to copy is the part where the EU president sends his army on a march through the eastern countries on their way to burning Warsaw in reprisal for not taking in their quota of immivaders, and sends his navy to blockade recalcitrant Britons until they give up on their crazy idea of Brexit;

    The last blockade run by the U.S. Navy was during the Cuban missile crisis in 1962. Places since 1945 where the Army and Marines have been in combat for more than a few days would be Korea, South VietNam, Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Two were facing military conquest by external powers, one was facing an insurgency run by an external power, one was responsible for a bizarre casus belli, and one we had been in a state of belligerency with for twelve years (after they stomped all over a neighboring state).

  68. @eD
    I don't think a (politically) united Europe was as bad an idea as people here made it out, but they went about it completely the wrong way -people even said this when the decisions were being made- and there may be too many horses out of the barn to go back and do it right now.

    What they really wanted was a union of France and Germany, which would have been joined by the Benelux countries. Other countries that could have reasonably joined in the future would have been Italy -such an entity could have handled one messed up country- and Austria and the Czechs.

    Just recreated Charlemagne's kingdom, and it helps that this area has been unified in the past, under Charlemagne. Administratively, they all use the Napoleonic code and Napoleonic style bureaucratic procedures. And this is what the early European Common Market consisted of. The big mistake was allowing Britain to join and one of the reasons Britain wanted in was to make sure this emerging entity didn't work.

    People like Schultz (sp?) should also be relieved that the British are finally leaving instead of wanting to wage revenge economic warfare on them.

    Replies: @German_reader, @Anonymous, @Bill B., @Art Deco

    Just recreated Charlemagne’s kingdom, and it helps that this area has been unified in the past, under Charlemagne.

    I.e. 12 centuries ago.

    The Frankish Kingdoms held some Swabian and Rhenish territory for several centuries. Anything beyond that was held for < 70 years before the Frankish realms were definitively partitioned in 843. A large bloc of Germanic territory the Frankish kings never held.

    • Replies: @mobi
    @Art Deco


    The Frankish Kingdoms held some Swabian and Rhenish territory for several centuries. Anything beyond that was held for < 70 years before the Frankish realms were definitively partitioned in 843. A large bloc of Germanic territory the Frankish kings never held.
     
    'The facts of everything, and the meaning of nothing'.

    (Apologies to whoever)
  69. @German_reader
    @eD


    Just recreated Charlemagne’s kingdom, and it helps that this area has been unified in the past, under Charlemagne.
     
    Charlemagne was a tyrant, and we're no longer living in the 8th century.
    Personally I think a political union for even Germany, France and the Benelux countries is a ridiculous idea, the differences are too great.

    Replies: @Lars Porsena

    Actually Charlemagne was a viking. Like most barbarian empires of it’s time it was not really a centralized empire but more like a Central European Treaty Organization. It was a very loose federation. If they had built the EU like the HRE it probably would have worked. Charlemagne demanded tribute and conscripts. He never got involved in actually trying to manage or regulate any of the countries in the HRE. What they did was their own business, so long as they were paying taxes.

    The HRE was a loose enough federation that it could exist, for most of it’s long existence, even though almost all of it’s member states were all at war with each other.

    • Replies: @German_reader
    @Lars Porsena

    Charlemagne wasn't a Viking (he at least tried to revive late antique Roman conceptions of rule), and the empire he ruled wasn't the HRE empire (which was called Roman and Holy respectively only in the 11th/12th centuries, in relation to the investiture contest and then Barbarossa's attempts to re-sacralize the imperial dignity); and while his empire lacked the administrative machinery for efficient centralism, the rise of territorial principalities was a later phenomenon, after the break-up of Charlemagne's empire and the consequent erosion of royal power.
    Not that any of this is terribly relevant today, EU bureaucrats citing Charlemagne as inspiration is ridiculous theatre anyway.

  70. @eD
    @Anonymous

    "The big flaw with your argument is that the virtual entirety of the British political class, the elites – and most importantly of all, The Economics magazine fought tooth-and-nail to keep Britain in the EU."

    No, but they did it to destroy the EU, not to save it.

    The British ruling classes have also been doing a favor to the US deep state, which wants pan European institutions, but weak ones, for reasons that should be obvious if you think about it for a few minutes.
    The only value of the British to the American deep state is as a sort of cat's paw in Europe, so they are all in. They have missed out on opportunities to carve out an identity or position of strength not dependent on the USA.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Anonymous

    Sir Humphrey Appleby was a fictional character.

  71. This might be the best thing to happen. It could justifiably alarm the central and eastern European EU populations about the further loss of their sovereignty — and with it, the loss of their cultures, physical safety, and civilization because of the “US of Europe”-imposed duty to accept Third World “migrants” like their overlords in Germany and France.

    Go for it, self-hating Germans, drive Poland and Hungary the rest of the way into the arms of common sense. Maybe Austria too.

    Let Germany, France, Italy, and Sweden decline into violent Islamic/African hellholes while lecturing their neighbors to the east about their duty to do the same.

    We know where we WON’T be vacationing or sending our kids as exchange students: Germany, France, Italy, Sweden and anywhere else in the rapidly forming Islamic EU.

    We know where we WILL vacation and consider sending our kids for high school or university: any central or eastern European country that leaves the EU and grows enough balls to keep Muslims and Africans out.

  72. Peter Hitchens seems then to have got it right. The EU is destined to be dominated by Germany.

  73. @Issac
    @Altai

    The detachment in question is emanating from Europe. United Europe is considered absurd everywhere else. Spencer likes to buck that trend and for it he is roundly mocked. Confusing Spencerian flights of fancy with American dispositions proves the Europeans know very little likewise.

    Replies: @Yan Shen

    Richard Spencer is hardly alone in this. Just look at Jared Taylor, Steve Sailer, or any of the other numerous American white nationalist bloggers and most of the commenters here. Sorry did I say uh white? I meant people who think they’re white, obviously.

    I suspect most Europeans view Americans and in particular American white nationalists with a bit of amusement.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @Yan Shen

    "Men" who cover up and excuse and even subsidize foreign men who are raping and groping their women, aren't in any position to be condescendingly "amused" by other men.

    Oh no, the guy who apologized to the Muslim groping his daughter isn't impressed by ME. Horrors!

    Go back to sucking Achmed off, Horst, and shove your lectures in your favorite place.

    , @Karl
    @Yan Shen

    73 Yan Shen > Steve Sailer, or any of the other numerous American white nationalist bloggers

    actual white nationalists aren't busy reading forward.com and _The Atlantic_

    , @Eric Novak
    @Yan Shen

    Europe is far more unified and open to permeability of other Europeans in the face of the new reality, as evidenced by Poland's pan-European mass gathering of the international right. Identity has widened greatly. The differences between US Alt Right thinking and its counterparts in Europe have been shrinking.

  74. @Charles Pewitt
    Martin Schulz is a baby boomer globalizer who does the bidding of transnational plutocrats. Young Germans who have seen their particular cohort demographically swamped with foreigners will soon be removing treasonous shyster rats like Martin Schulz from power.

    Merkel and Schulz are propped up by the European Central Bank and the monetary extremism it is engaged in. When the European Union disintegrates, and the euro zone implodes, the Germans will be forced to go back to the deutsche mark, and that is when the young Germans will savagely retaliate against the treasonous rats like Merkel and Schulz.


    The Alternative for Deutschland political party will soon be the main power in Germany and Merkel and Schulz will be in exile in the Congo.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan, @RadicalCenter

    The great thing to remember abut the Germans is this: when they get mad, they get really mad.

    I doubt that either Merkel or Schulz or the rest will be given the option of mere exile.

  75. @German_reader
    @BB753


    but also France, Italy and other European nations would pull out of the Union if such a proposal ever came to pass
     
    Looks very different from Germany, more like such a United states of Europe would be a mechanism for France to make us hand over even more money.

    Replies: @BB753

    Ok, maybe so but Germany always has the last word. The French give up power and sovereignty in exchange for subsidies.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @BB753

    The last word Germany will have will be in Arabic.

  76. @Anonymous
    @Yan Shen

    I've long held the opinion that European federalism holds such a deep sway amongst certain elements of the European political class due to a secret and unadmitted 'United States envy'.
    Power is what drives these people. They see others having ultimate power and want a bit of it themselves.
    It really *is* as shallow and childish as that.

    Replies: @Charles Pewitt, @Anonymous

    Ultimate power is the nuclear weapon option. France has it; so does Britain, although the Brits may have to get the green light and the codes to launch from the military leaders of the American Empire.

    Germany will soon acquire a nuclear deterrent as an easily understood means to signal the re-attainment of national sovereignty. This will happen within ten years. The American Empire will be out of Europe in under ten years.

    The European Union is a dodo bird. The European Central Bank is a dead man walking.

    Baby boomer globalizers Martin Schulz and Angela Merkel will be lucky to escape out of Germany in one piece once the young Germans start reclaiming their homeland.

    Political power comes before money power

    Nuclear weapons are the ultimate form of political power

  77. Traditional big gov lefty Schulz was president of the European “Parliament” for many years: The knee-jerk attitudes confirmed / acquired (and lavishly paid for!) there likely inform his proposal.

    Otherwise, Schulz is just an outdated fool — and a particularly ugly fool at that, even by the standards applicable to politicians. For twenty years minimum now, his party has been on a steady downward trajectory. Currently, the SPD score about twenty per cent of the votes in German federal elections, while in the 1980 / 1990s it was almost twice that rate.

    The SPD are scared shitless by the rise of the Populist Right in Germany in the form of the AfD Party, which despite the Cathedral agitating against them 24/7 won thirteen per cent in September’s federal elections, and are now present in the Bundestag for the first time, with almost one hundred representatives.

    So, as Vox Day likes to say, SJW always double down. That’s what Schulz is doing with his crazy proposal. It only evoked reactions between amused / bemused shrugs and scathing irony in the larger German political discourse.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Herzog

    Schulz and Merkel are front men for moneyed interests. Both have been instructed to work towards unification of Europe and subversion of democratic structures by elite institutions.

    Official democracy will continue as bread and games.

    Vote rigging will became an even more accepted and blatant practice throughout the EU.

    IIRC, it was Lenin who noted: "it's not who votes, but who counts the votes." (Probably sounds better in the original German. Everyone knows that Lenin spoke and wrote German, right?)

  78. German_reader says:
    @Lars Porsena
    @German_reader

    Actually Charlemagne was a viking. Like most barbarian empires of it's time it was not really a centralized empire but more like a Central European Treaty Organization. It was a very loose federation. If they had built the EU like the HRE it probably would have worked. Charlemagne demanded tribute and conscripts. He never got involved in actually trying to manage or regulate any of the countries in the HRE. What they did was their own business, so long as they were paying taxes.

    The HRE was a loose enough federation that it could exist, for most of it's long existence, even though almost all of it's member states were all at war with each other.

    Replies: @German_reader

    Charlemagne wasn’t a Viking (he at least tried to revive late antique Roman conceptions of rule), and the empire he ruled wasn’t the HRE empire (which was called Roman and Holy respectively only in the 11th/12th centuries, in relation to the investiture contest and then Barbarossa’s attempts to re-sacralize the imperial dignity); and while his empire lacked the administrative machinery for efficient centralism, the rise of territorial principalities was a later phenomenon, after the break-up of Charlemagne’s empire and the consequent erosion of royal power.
    Not that any of this is terribly relevant today, EU bureaucrats citing Charlemagne as inspiration is ridiculous theatre anyway.

  79. @Frau Katze
    @Diversity Heretic

    And he’s making the condition in the contex of a purely German election.

    He seems to be assuming that Germany runs the EU (and it does, but it’s bad taste to admit it).

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic

    Thank you! You made my point better than I did.

  80. @Ben Kurtz
    Wars have been fought for less.

    It's a good thing, then, that the United States continues to maintain an army of occupation in Europe. We'll need it in order to keep the expansionist Germans in check.

    https://benkurtzblog.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/brexit-and-the-u-s-army-of-occupation-in-europe/

    I've long believed that Europe would be better served with the German-speaking peoples divided up among at least 5 independent sovereign states (East Germany, West Germany-Ruhr, West Germany-Bavaria, Austria, Switzerland). The current Federal Republic of Germany is too big and powerful for its (and Europe's) own good.

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic, @RadicalCenter, @RadicalCenter

    Europe may have been better off when “Germany” was the Holy Roman Empire. United Germany is really quite new: 1871 at the conclusion of the Franco-Prussian War of 1870. It’s quite possible to argue that the Allies made a huge mistake in the Treaty of Versailles in breaking up the Austro-Hungarian empire but leaving Germany intact. The last Austro-Hungarian Emperor, Charles II tried to warn them but they wouldn’t listen.

  81. @Art Deco
    @eD

    Just recreated Charlemagne’s kingdom, and it helps that this area has been unified in the past, under Charlemagne.

    I.e. 12 centuries ago.

    The Frankish Kingdoms held some Swabian and Rhenish territory for several centuries. Anything beyond that was held for < 70 years before the Frankish realms were definitively partitioned in 843. A large bloc of Germanic territory the Frankish kings never held.

    Replies: @mobi

    The Frankish Kingdoms held some Swabian and Rhenish territory for several centuries. Anything beyond that was held for < 70 years before the Frankish realms were definitively partitioned in 843. A large bloc of Germanic territory the Frankish kings never held.

    ‘The facts of everything, and the meaning of nothing’.

    (Apologies to whoever)

  82. A re-birth of the Europe concept, in continentalist form – Europe 2.0 – has real potential. It may well prove to be essential, and the UK may even return to it one day.
    Its current form may be too irretrievably cucked, though, and probably needs to collapse outright before any such re-birth can take root.

    In the long run, the best Merkle could yet do to make amends, however unwittingly, would be to take up Schulz on his offer.

    I fear, though, she may understand that, and won’t

  83. @songbird
    @Yan Shen

    What is really amusing to me are the people (mostly very white liberals) trying to split off Southern Europeans in an obvious attempt to add their numbers into their anti-white coalition.

    Probably the best example of this is the old Hercules TV show with Kevin Sorbo. People now complain about it quite often, though I don't think anyone did back in the day. They complain about Sorbo though the show had many black extras on it. Though Hercules half-sister, Aphrodite was often depicted being blonde in classical times. Though one of his other half-sisters is often called the Grey-eyed Goddess. Though it was obviously convenience casting and totally apolitical. Their complaints are so transparent because they made no outcry when he was played by the black-Samoan, the Rock.

    Greeks and Italians had high civilization. For one thing, their art is objectively superior to anything found outside of Europe. Some believe that the Ashkenazi picked up their high IQ genes from Southern Europe. The political and economic differences might be real and significant, but it is still obviously civilization, with the hope of progress.

    Replies: @Nico

    What is really amusing to me are the people (mostly very white liberals) trying to split off Southern Europeans in an obvious attempt to add their numbers into their anti-white coalition.

    Actually, if anything it’s the other way around: Southern Europeans want to be seen as “Mediterranean” instead of “white” if at all possible and still have their Christian Greco-Roman civilization. So far, that doesn’t fly with liberals, not to mention with any actual POCs anywhere.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Nico

    There's some attempt by Jews to get Italians into their whole Ellis-Island cult, not to mention going gaga over Sacco and Vanzetti. It doesn't fly.

    Of course you were probably talking about actual Southern Europeans in Southern Europe. Don't mind me.

  84. The whole point of having darker minorities is to minimize the ethnic differences between white people. A German and a Pole suddenly have a lot in common when Senegalese are roaming both their countries.

    The northern states in the US busted up their Catholic ethnic neighborhoods using black immigration from the South.

    See E. Michael Jones for more information.

    • Agree: utu
  85. @Yan Shen

    You know, it strikes me that one way Europeanism could be more popular with European voters would be by being more pro-European and not quite so pro-Eritrean.
     
    Pan-Europeanism is one of those ideas that well intentioned but uh naive American white nationalists often like to promote or fantasize about. In reality it's not a particularly realistic thing, as anyone who's been paying attention to some of the recent ongoings in Europe may be aware, for the simple fact that outside of Germany, the UK, the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, and possibly France, the rest of Europe isn't particularly competitive in much.

    Seeing Greeks constantly protest and complain about the Germans and demanding reparations eerily parallels the way that blacks and whites interact in this country. One can easily imagine the Greek Ta Nehisi Coates penning masterpieces about how Greece is entitled to perpetual reparations and atonement from the Germans because violent and racist Germans brutalized Greek bodies back in the day. Sorry, did I say Germans? I meant uh people who thought they were Germans brutalized innocent Greek bodies during World War 2.

    Anyway, the Germans no more want to carry around Greek or Polish deadweight than productive Americans here want to blamed for all of the failings of blacks or Hispanics. As someone who isn't a huge fan of the current trend towards open borders globalization a la Bryan Caplan, my hope is that in areas like Europe, Asia, Africa, etc. where traditional ethnic nation states have reigned, we can continue to embrace the self-determination of peoples.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @bomag, @backup, @Random Lurker, @songbird, @Expletive Deleted, @Eric Novak

    the Germans no more want to carry around Greek or Polish deadweight than

    they wish to run a rigged trade surplus against defenceless Mediterranean donkey-powered meme-nations.
    The whole point of the single currency and EU-funded “development” was to artificially lower barriers (a.k.a. being utterly skint, and not having roads etc.) to turbo-dumping of expensive German manufacturing exports on everyone else without having the Mark revalued to the stratosphere.
    Also kept German worker-drones quiet and passive over their lack of sharing in the increased productivity through what would otherwise be better wages.

    That’s why Greece freaked them out so much. They (and the French, tagging along as usual) had lent, or as it turned out given the cunning Boss Stavros’s an obscene mountain of cash in the expectation that it would be dutifully recycled into buying fine engineering and sausages. And not just trousered, cutting raggedy-ass Greek peasants out of the deal. Result, “Now ve are confiscate your entire country, nasty ordinary Greek peoples!!”
    TBH I’m surprised the Hellenes aren’t shooting them Hermans in their holiday villas for this, like they were doing in the Balearics a few years back.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Expletive Deleted

    You're right about the effect of the euro. It keeps German industry competitive and German workers employed. But creates tremendous friction because Europeans are not remotely equally competitive nor are European economies all in sync in their business cycles. (We have these problems regionally in the US, but they are manageable. And when things get really bad regionally, Americans actually pack up and move.) It takes individual nation's use of monetary policy mostly off the table. The Euro was an *obviously* stupid idea pushed by Euro elites out of "ever closer union" ideology and will to power.

    However you're really letting the Greeks--undeservedly--off the hook. The euro was not something Germany jammed down everyone else's throat. Giving up the D-mark was a tough sell to Germans--not German industry, but actual Germans. This was a French initiative--toward "ever closer union" and yoking Germany. And the southern Europeans jumped at the chance to get in and have a currency that they wouldn't debase. The Greeks instead of disciplining themselves to get in, put their budgetary statistics on the rack and tortured them to pretend to meet the joining criteria. Then once in they suddenly had much cheaper credit--with currency devaluation risk removed--and went on a glorious spending spree.

    The people responsible for the Greek crisis are ... the Greeks. Fundamentally they felt/feel that they are entitled to consume at a "European" standard of living, which they don't actually produce. (Not an odd trait, feeling entitled to spend more than you produce seems to affect a significant number of humans.) And after joining the euro were able to do it by borrowing ... for a while. The can end German "oppression", by simply leaving the euro, returning to the drachma and standing on their own two feet fiscally. That of course entails a lower standard of living more in line with what Greeks actually produce.

    Replies: @Anonymous

  86. @Yan Shen
    @BB753

    Germany dominating uncompetitive Southern and Eastern European countries and incurring their wrath and resentment is one of those things that casts doubt on the Utopia of pan-white Europeanism.

    Instead of black and Hispanic Americans complaining about white Americans or white Americans complaining about East Asian Americans, you'd just have Southern and Eastern Europeans complaining about the Germans, the British, and the Scandinavians.

    Replies: @bomag, @Chrisnonymous, @IBC, @RadicalCenter, @ThreeCranes

    …East Asian Americans…

    Don’t you mean “Confucian-Americans?”

  87. Sounds like a good way to break up the EU. Carry on, Martin,

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  88. @John Mansfield
    It wasn't until May 29, 1790, thirteen months after George Washington was sworn into office, that Rhode Island ratified the U.S. Constitution. What if "Rogue's Island" never did join the American union? Has a tiny independent nation between Connecticut and Massachusetts ever been included in one of those speculative histories where southern secession succeeds and such?

    Which countries would give up the EU rather than join a United States of Europe?

    Replies: @dfordoom

    Which countries would give up the EU rather than join a United States of Europe?

    You have to keep in mind that the people of those countries are not going to be asked (after Brexit there aren’t going to be any more referenda in Europe). The decision will be made by the political class. As long as there’s plenty of room for the political classes to get their snouts in the trough in Brussels they’ll accept anything.

  89. DAS IST VOLL IM ARSCH

  90. @Kevin O'Keeffe
    Wouldn't it be a great joke be on the left, if Germany managed to gain control of a new, federalized Europe...and then AfD won the next election?

    Replies: @YetAnotherAnon

    “Wouldn’t it be a great joke be on the left, if Germany managed to gain control of a new, federalized Europe…and then AfD won the next election?”

    Then the AfD would probably find that they’re in office, but not in power. The globalists are deeply entrenched in German and EU structures, just as they are in UK and US structures, media, academia, courts etc. UK’s globalists (and their useful idiots) have been fighting against Brexit (and for the EU) for the past 18 months.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @YetAnotherAnon


    Then the AfD would probably find that they’re in office, but not in power.
     
    And they're a long long long way from even winning office. And Germany is the most comprehensively cucked nation on earth.
    , @Karl
    @YetAnotherAnon

    89 YetAnotherAnon > Then the AfD would probably find that they’re in office, but not in power. The globalists are deeply entrenched in German and EU structures, just as they are in UK and US structures, media, academia, courts etc


    i'll let you be the one to explain to Hillary that she's actually still pulling the levers of power

  91. @Yan Shen
    @BB753

    Germany dominating uncompetitive Southern and Eastern European countries and incurring their wrath and resentment is one of those things that casts doubt on the Utopia of pan-white Europeanism.

    Instead of black and Hispanic Americans complaining about white Americans or white Americans complaining about East Asian Americans, you'd just have Southern and Eastern Europeans complaining about the Germans, the British, and the Scandinavians.

    Replies: @bomag, @Chrisnonymous, @IBC, @RadicalCenter, @ThreeCranes

    Another way in which the USA was and is different from Europe, this time a difference benefitting the USA.

    In the USA, tens of millions of white people have genetic and cultural heritage from several of those regions of Europe. I have substantial ancestry from each of Southern Europe, Eastern Europe, and Western/NW Europe, and many white people of my acquaintance have family background from at least two of such European regions.

    A pan-white-European culture and polity is exactly what was developing, and working very well, in the USA before the floodgates were foolishly opened to mass third world immigration.

    Historic animosities, tensions,and “long memories” between different white countries in Europe, just don’t apply that much here, and thank God for that.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @RadicalCenter


    A pan-white-European culture and polity is exactly what was developing, and working very well, in the USA before the floodgates were foolishly opened to mass third world immigration.

     

    Unfortunately that pan-white-European culture was terribly shallow and essentially artificial. It was too feeble to offer any resistance to any threat. It didn't really mean anything to anyone. By the 50s American culture was essentially Jewish culture.

    We have the same problem in Australia although in our case it's self-inflicted. We could have established an Australian Anglo-Celtic culture but we threw it all away. Australian culture today is simply American culture. Trash culture.

    Replies: @ThreeCranes, @Eric Novak

  92. @Altai
    Most people wouldn't have minded it if it didn't include the now 11 former Warsaw pact countries that produce an unacceptable level of immigration to certain cities and if external borders were guarded.

    If any of these people think a big Europe with Ukraine and Turkey wouldn't have blown apart, I think they are just too dim and too old to understand things are different to when they were young and don't see the rapid and intolerable pace of these things. They're not young people trying to buy a house and navigate a social environment filled with alienating (And often people with low trust, mercenary attitudes) foreigners.

    As Yan Shen has noted, it's only an American idea of 'White nationalism'. That Richard Spencer doesn't understand why people in the UK would want to stop EU immigration (And not in a rhetorical way, the noise he makes betrays a total lack of understanding.) proves how detached America is from Europe.

    Replies: @Issac, @RadicalCenter

    Fair point about white groups in Europe perceiving themselves as more separate from other white groups in Europe, than they are here in the USA.

    But thankfully it’s different for whites here. Most of us absolutely have a pan-white identity, with loyalty to and affection for all other white Americans no matter where in Europe their people came from,

    My ancestors came here, from EVERY region in Europe, precisely to become “detached” from Europe. Smart move.

    In any event, an EU including every current member — but NOT Turkey — could work just fine.

    It could work if it was not a superstate but an alliance of sovereign countries seeking together to facilitate trade, easier tourist and business travel, increased cultural and student exchange programs, and common border control efforts against Third World immivasion.

    • Troll: AndrewR
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @RadicalCenter


    Most of us absolutely have a pan-white identity, with loyalty to and affection for all other white Americans no matter where in Europe their people came from,
     
    Is that really true? Are you saying that a merchant banker in Manhattan has a deep loyalty to and affection for a factory worker in Pittsburgh just because they're both white? Does a blue-haired feminist landwhale doing gender studies at Berkeley have a deep loyalty to and affection for a truck driver who lives in a small town in Kansas just because he's a fellow white person? Do flaming homosexuals from San Francisco experience a surge of fellow feeling when they see a white working class person wearing a MAGA hat?

    White people are bitterly divided on class and ideological lines, and class and ideological hatreds are exceptionally vicious. A pan-white identity is a nice fantasy but that's all it is.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Eric Novak

    , @AndrewR
    @RadicalCenter


    But thankfully it’s different for whites here. Most of us absolutely have a pan-white identity, with loyalty to and affection for all other white Americans no matter where in Europe their people came from,
     
    Just shut up
  93. @Issac
    @Yan Shen

    Mao was vastly more successful wiping out Chinese. Don't be so modest. That's quite a slant.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    Pun intended.

  94. @Anonymous
    @Lurker

    Anyhow, things are too far gone.

    It is, more or less a certainty, that France, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Denmark, the UK etc etc will be inhabited by a majority non ethnic European stock by 2100.

    Perhaps the last chance of ensuring a European Europe was with Helmut Schmidt back in the '70s who made noises to that effect. An older, wiser un-PC pussy-whipped generation.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    True. But try a lot sooner than 2100. Maybe 2050.

  95. But thankfully it’s different for whites here. Most of us absolutely have a pan-white identity, with loyalty to and affection for all other white Americans no matter where in Europe their people came from,

    Which most Europeans would consider strange, and rightfully so.

    It could work if it was not a superstate but an alliance of sovereign countries seeking together to facilitate trade, easier tourist and business travel, increased cultural and student exchange programs, and common border control efforts against Third World immivasion.

    Sadly one of the issues confronting Western Europe is the influx of Eastern European prostitutes. My guess is if you ask many British or Germans what they associate Romanian immigrants with, they might say hookers.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @Yan Shen

    You mean the people who invite and subsidize and fawn over the men groping and raping their daughters and attacking and intimidating their sons? Those Europeans? Yeah, we are really concerned with their opinion of us.

    And why would they think it strange to have loyalty to, and affection for, other white people, given the common values and common enemies we have, and how tiny a portion of the world's population we are? Yeah, WE'RE strange.

    Grow that beard now, Francois, and bend over. When Achmed lets you catch your breath, you can express your disdain for white Americans some more.

    , @RadicalCenter
    @Yan Shen

    Yes, Romanian prostitutes ought to be one of the top concerns of Germans, French, swedes, and brits right now. Glad we cleared that up.

    , @Anonymous
    @Yan Shen

    For the 'John' class of sexually incontinent Englishmen, this has been the best thing ever.
    Believe, it or not, the 'law of supply and demand' - as regularly castigated by The Economist magazine - works in this instance too, and isn't just an instrument for grinding down industrial wages.
    The result is as Churchill himself might have put it','Never before have so many screwed so much for so little', and the general standard of hooker in terms of looks, youth and personality is miles better than when the trade was dominated by some rather skanky English women in the pre-Blair days.
    Add in a huge influx of ever so keen Brazilian women, and New Labour's feminista stand and open borders didn't work out too well.......

  96. “The three countries, outvoted over the compulsory law, now face huge, daily fines unless they take their share. ”

    Were I the Head Polack, I’d just print up the Euros and deliver the money by truck to Brussels.

  97. @YetAnotherAnon
    @BB753

    Visegrad are extremely pleased to get all the EU money that used to flow to French/Spanish/Irish farmers, also extremely pleased that lots of companies are setting up there for low wages (e.g. the iconic Brit brand Twinings Tea, which wants Brits to buy their tea but doesn't want to pay them to process and package it), and they love the Western tourists coming to their relatively safe cities.

    (Who wants to go to Paris on Eurostar and run risk of terrorist attack plus the certainty of running the North African gauntlet at Gare du Nord, when you can fly to Budapest?)

    On the other hand they quite like Poland being full of Poles and Hungary full of Hungarians. Their leaders are aligned with their people, not against them.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    Good observations, sir.

    I can confirm that our family probably will never visit London, Paris, Stockholm, and Rome as I had always hoped to do, for precisely the reason that you mentioned.

    We will redirect our time, money, and attention instead to any remaining European countries that maintain a solidly white population and a civilized European culture, protect the safety and peace of mind of their own people, and make fellow civilized visitors safe and welcome. Hopefully Poland, Hungary, maybe Czech Repub and Slovakia and Austria, not many more from the looks of it.

    Even more specifically, I have german heritage and know a fair amount of their language, and our kids have been learning it from a very young age. But we are so disgusted with the Germans, and so pessimistic about their very will to survive as a nation (not just a “country”), that we are beginning to doubt whether it’s worth the effort. They could instead learn the language of some kindred people who seem to love their own people and desire to remain who they are, such as (so far) Poland, even Russia.

    Who exactly will our kids be able to speak German with in 25 years and 40 years from now? A motley group of less intelligent, less productive, less attractive, less culturally compatible half Africans or half Arabs and/or Muslims who don’t share our genes, our history, our legends and heroes, our values, mores, hopes, expectations, sense of humor, sense of fairness, etc.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @RadicalCenter


    But we are so disgusted with the Germans, and so pessimistic about their very will to survive as a nation
     
    Germany was never a real nation anyway, just a compilation of principalities and duchies with more-or-less the same language who united only because the French kept causing them trouble.

    If neighboring nations can be contained, Germans might be better off with an extreme devolution and even a return to local monarchies. They don't have to look far for a working example; Switzerland is next door and 3/4 of them write in German. (I was going to say "speak", but that's more problematical.)

    How open did those landgraves and margraves leave their borders in previous centuries?

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    , @YetAnotherAnon
    @RadicalCenter

    A new "cheapo" airline, WizzAir, is taking advantage of the increased tourism to Eastern Europe from UK.

    My daughter left the Berlin Christmas market half an hour before the truck attack last year. It's just not worth going to France, Belgium, Germany when you can go to Budapest or Warsaw.

    https://twitter.com/BasedPoland/status/938149604234858496

  98. @bomag
    @Yan Shen


    Clear schisms exist today in Europe along the North/South/East split, so it’s always somewhat amusing when white nationalist Americans think of pan-white as some kind of Utopia…
     
    It is not offered as a utopia; it is offered as something better than having your culture and heritage displaced by a foreigner from far away.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    Exactly. We are not choosing between utopia and current trends. We are choosing between current disastrous trends and something far less bad, and maybe workable with great effort and compromise.

  99. @Anonymous
    Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic will be punished if they don't accept hordes of third-world migrants, and they will be punished if they do. It sort of makes sense that they might be irritated.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    Love to see Poland, Hungary, Czech, Austria, and Slovakia all declare their exit from the EU at once. Laugh in the face of the Germans and the French. Wish them “good luck with your sharia, start growing those beards and Sticking your asses up in the air five times a days now (and not just for prayer, judging from your ‘men.’). Send postcards and tell us how it goes.”

  100. @Charles Pewitt
    Martin Schulz is a baby boomer globalizer who does the bidding of transnational plutocrats. Young Germans who have seen their particular cohort demographically swamped with foreigners will soon be removing treasonous shyster rats like Martin Schulz from power.

    Merkel and Schulz are propped up by the European Central Bank and the monetary extremism it is engaged in. When the European Union disintegrates, and the euro zone implodes, the Germans will be forced to go back to the deutsche mark, and that is when the young Germans will savagely retaliate against the treasonous rats like Merkel and Schulz.


    The Alternative for Deutschland political party will soon be the main power in Germany and Merkel and Schulz will be in exile in the Congo.

    Replies: @Old Palo Altan, @RadicalCenter

    I wish that were plausible, but it is mere wishful thinking.

    Fewer than ten percent of voters, of any age, voted for the AfD in most States in the former West Germany.

    In the federal parliamentary (Bundestag) election just held, the AfD got good percentages only in the former DDR, East Germany, which is greatly outweighed by the western part in votes, money, and influence.

    Similar results for most recent elections to the state legislatures (Landtag). Eastern Germany plus southern Germany (Baden-Wuerttenberg and Bavaria) gave decent totals to the AfD, elsewhere they mostly got slaughtered. Germans in most of western Germany refuse to wake up no matter what the Muslims and Africans do to them and even their wives and children (to the extent that the deracinated self hating little pussies even have children).

    State legislative results for Germany 2017:
    https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/320946/umfrage/ergebnisse-der-afd-bei-den-landtagswahlen/

  101. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Kevin O'Keeffe

    "Wouldn’t it be a great joke be on the left, if Germany managed to gain control of a new, federalized Europe…and then AfD won the next election?"

    Then the AfD would probably find that they're in office, but not in power. The globalists are deeply entrenched in German and EU structures, just as they are in UK and US structures, media, academia, courts etc. UK's globalists (and their useful idiots) have been fighting against Brexit (and for the EU) for the past 18 months.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Karl

    Then the AfD would probably find that they’re in office, but not in power.

    And they’re a long long long way from even winning office. And Germany is the most comprehensively cucked nation on earth.

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  102. @RadicalCenter
    @Yan Shen

    Another way in which the USA was and is different from Europe, this time a difference benefitting the USA.

    In the USA, tens of millions of white people have genetic and cultural heritage from several of those regions of Europe. I have substantial ancestry from each of Southern Europe, Eastern Europe, and Western/NW Europe, and many white people of my acquaintance have family background from at least two of such European regions.

    A pan-white-European culture and polity is exactly what was developing, and working very well, in the USA before the floodgates were foolishly opened to mass third world immigration.

    Historic animosities, tensions,and "long memories" between different white countries in Europe, just don't apply that much here, and thank God for that.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    A pan-white-European culture and polity is exactly what was developing, and working very well, in the USA before the floodgates were foolishly opened to mass third world immigration.

    Unfortunately that pan-white-European culture was terribly shallow and essentially artificial. It was too feeble to offer any resistance to any threat. It didn’t really mean anything to anyone. By the 50s American culture was essentially Jewish culture.

    We have the same problem in Australia although in our case it’s self-inflicted. We could have established an Australian Anglo-Celtic culture but we threw it all away. Australian culture today is simply American culture. Trash culture.

    • Replies: @ThreeCranes
    @dfordoom

    "Australian culture today is simply American culture. Trash culture."

    No way, man. You got those lifeguard competitions with all the lifesaving babes standing in line and those surfing row boat races where everyone wipes out and gets dislocated shoulders. No way we Yanks can compete with that.

    , @Eric Novak
    @dfordoom

    So the Jews got to the Aussies as well.

  103. @Anonymous
    @ic1000

    So called 'qualified majority voting' to decide urgent matters of national sovereignty was perhaps *the* most unacceptable facet of the 1992 Maastricht Treaty, which sparked off the long Conservative Party Eurosceptic revolt against the EU, in the UK.

    Replies: @JMcG

    Ireland voted against the Lisbon Treaty in 2008, a result which prompted a rapid do-over. They were most concerned about their loudly proclaimed neutrality.
    Watch them bend over backwards to embrace the new European Overlordship. They wont be allowed neutrality then. The recent film , “Siege of Jadotville” is battlespace Prep.
    My Irish friends and relations will do an immediate 180 degree turn from impartial neutrality to a moral imperative to act.
    The treaty passed on the second vote of course.

  104. This is really interesting. Would the constitutional convention have succeeded in 1787 if one of the states didn’t want feral Africans immigrating?

  105. @RadicalCenter
    @Altai

    Fair point about white groups in Europe perceiving themselves as more separate from other white groups in Europe, than they are here in the USA.

    But thankfully it's different for whites here. Most of us absolutely have a pan-white identity, with loyalty to and affection for all other white Americans no matter where in Europe their people came from,

    My ancestors came here, from EVERY region in Europe, precisely to become "detached" from Europe. Smart move.

    In any event, an EU including every current member -- but NOT Turkey -- could work just fine.

    It could work if it was not a superstate but an alliance of sovereign countries seeking together to facilitate trade, easier tourist and business travel, increased cultural and student exchange programs, and common border control efforts against Third World immivasion.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @AndrewR

    Most of us absolutely have a pan-white identity, with loyalty to and affection for all other white Americans no matter where in Europe their people came from,

    Is that really true? Are you saying that a merchant banker in Manhattan has a deep loyalty to and affection for a factory worker in Pittsburgh just because they’re both white? Does a blue-haired feminist landwhale doing gender studies at Berkeley have a deep loyalty to and affection for a truck driver who lives in a small town in Kansas just because he’s a fellow white person? Do flaming homosexuals from San Francisco experience a surge of fellow feeling when they see a white working class person wearing a MAGA hat?

    White people are bitterly divided on class and ideological lines, and class and ideological hatreds are exceptionally vicious. A pan-white identity is a nice fantasy but that’s all it is.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @dfordoom

    I said most, not all by any means. And yes, it is declining under concerted attack and brainwashing of our young people for generations.

    And your putative "manhattan banker" generally isn't an unalloyed white European person anyway. Capice?

    Replies: @Corvinus, @dfordoom

    , @Eric Novak
    @dfordoom

    Pan-white identity was realized for generations. The banker isn't white, and the land whale is an outlier. The overwhelming white contradiction is whites' insufferable genetic predisposition to travel to far off lands, bring whiteness to the natives, then disparage the failed whiteness-conversion attempt by the whites who failed to inculcate whiteness among the savages and cannibals.

  106. @Yan Shen
    @BB753

    Germany dominating uncompetitive Southern and Eastern European countries and incurring their wrath and resentment is one of those things that casts doubt on the Utopia of pan-white Europeanism.

    Instead of black and Hispanic Americans complaining about white Americans or white Americans complaining about East Asian Americans, you'd just have Southern and Eastern Europeans complaining about the Germans, the British, and the Scandinavians.

    Replies: @bomag, @Chrisnonymous, @IBC, @RadicalCenter, @ThreeCranes

    You’re right.

    Right now, when people live in separate countries, unification appears to be the solution to everyone’s problems. When they achieve this, the same people will be pushing secession as the answer to their prayers.

    Centrifugal/Centripetal. Kinetic/Potential. While one is spending, the other is storing. Maya drawing the veil of illusion that erases memory and clouds judgement causes the ardent faction to champion their cause du jour with full throated enthusiasm.

  107. The root of all of Europe’s migrant problems is its welfare state. If the state is going to enslave its own people to provide freebies to any loser who can breech its boarders, it is done for. This naive idea that Euros can change foreigners into Euros by giving them residency and freebies is utterly absurd. We in the USA didn’t have much of a migrant problem as long as we had no welfare or free medical programs etc. People who came had to make it on their own albeit in a functioning economy.

    I do see one possible loophole for countries forced by the asylum seekers and that is to accept them, process their asylum applications and then deny them asylum and deport them. I could be failing to understand the process, such that it could be there are some bulls**t EU rules that basically grant everyone asylum, but if the people in the gov’t offices are AfD type thinkers, they could find ways to deny and deport all day long. If the Poles working in those offices don’t want to grant an African asylum, he can probably find a way to do it. A corollary to that idea is that the white nationalist drummer interviewed by the NYTimes could have been a far more effective agent for his cause had he just got a job working in the Fed. gov. office that processes migrant applications.

  108. @Bill B.
    @Yan Shen


    so it’s always somewhat amusing when white nationalist Americans think of pan-white as some kind of Utopia…
     
    Just as amusing as those who think of the han Chineseas making up a civilisation?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Just as amusing as those who think of the han Chineseas making up a civilisation?

    The Han Chinese are a hell of a lot more homogeneous than just white Americans, let alone Old Country whites. Even though “Chinese” is really five or six different languages, they see themselves as a unity, Sons of the Yellow Emperor.

    “White” is just a lowest common denominator. Real nations are a lot more specific, particular if you will.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Reg Cæsar

    I left White behind a little while ago. Observe the world like a Rabbi, and you will to. "Let us discriminate..." the central essence of Halakah.

    Broadly speaking, there are 3 "white" races. One of them is Armenid, roughly the J2 haplotype. Jews and Turks (mostly one and the same) genetically speaking. The other two are Nordid. Everything else in Europe is a mix of these and other more foreign races, to include Mongoloid mixing a long time ago for some. Time accounts for a lot of difference that we see (or ignore) in races that look different but are essentially the same mix. A people or person that spawned from two of the same pure races mixing 100 years ago and 1000 years ago will look different, even if they are isolated from further foreign genetic input after the mixing.

    Gain an eye for the detail of skull shape. It tells all. Learn to view your politics not by nation, or even by skin color, but on pure genetics that are going to mostly be revealed through skull shape. Jews do. They wrapped their Armenid genetics in Judaism to fight the Nords and others, even being somewhat closely related to Nords on the genetic tree. I and J are genetic brothers. This ability to see past nation and skin color is why they are able to keep such close genetic consistency (again, look at skull shape), in many cases being pure armenid in a fashion that even isolated Nordids have difficulty mimicking. Look at the average Haredi gathering. Two or more individuals. The genetic consistency is astounding and, outside of Asia, is pretty rare. Good or bad, they are almost clones apart from an obvious streak of Red Nordid+ Mongoloid gentic expression. Like every fifth one looks either Scotch-Irish / relatively pure Red Slavic (again, Red Nord + Mongol).

    Differing whites can be allies, of course, but the difference has to remain. We aren't all the same. I'm mixed (two relatively pure but different varieties of white, neither of which are Armenid btw) and I would not presume to have a place among the pure stock of those of my better half. I would much rather raise the stock of those of my somewhat worse half. That's the perspective we need as a broad group, imo.

  109. @RadicalCenter
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Good observations, sir.

    I can confirm that our family probably will never visit London, Paris, Stockholm, and Rome as I had always hoped to do, for precisely the reason that you mentioned.

    We will redirect our time, money, and attention instead to any remaining European countries that maintain a solidly white population and a civilized European culture, protect the safety and peace of mind of their own people, and make fellow civilized visitors safe and welcome. Hopefully Poland, Hungary, maybe Czech Repub and Slovakia and Austria, not many more from the looks of it.

    Even more specifically, I have german heritage and know a fair amount of their language, and our kids have been learning it from a very young age. But we are so disgusted with the Germans, and so pessimistic about their very will to survive as a nation (not just a "country"), that we are beginning to doubt whether it's worth the effort. They could instead learn the language of some kindred people who seem to love their own people and desire to remain who they are, such as (so far) Poland, even Russia.

    Who exactly will our kids be able to speak German with in 25 years and 40 years from now? A motley group of less intelligent, less productive, less attractive, less culturally compatible half Africans or half Arabs and/or Muslims who don't share our genes, our history, our legends and heroes, our values, mores, hopes, expectations, sense of humor, sense of fairness, etc.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @YetAnotherAnon

    But we are so disgusted with the Germans, and so pessimistic about their very will to survive as a nation

    Germany was never a real nation anyway, just a compilation of principalities and duchies with more-or-less the same language who united only because the French kept causing them trouble.

    If neighboring nations can be contained, Germans might be better off with an extreme devolution and even a return to local monarchies. They don’t have to look far for a working example; Switzerland is next door and 3/4 of them write in German. (I was going to say “speak”, but that’s more problematical.)

    How open did those landgraves and margraves leave their borders in previous centuries?

    • Replies: @Mr. Anon
    @Reg Cæsar


    Germany was never a real nation anyway...
     
    Yes, it was.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  110. @dfordoom
    @RadicalCenter


    A pan-white-European culture and polity is exactly what was developing, and working very well, in the USA before the floodgates were foolishly opened to mass third world immigration.

     

    Unfortunately that pan-white-European culture was terribly shallow and essentially artificial. It was too feeble to offer any resistance to any threat. It didn't really mean anything to anyone. By the 50s American culture was essentially Jewish culture.

    We have the same problem in Australia although in our case it's self-inflicted. We could have established an Australian Anglo-Celtic culture but we threw it all away. Australian culture today is simply American culture. Trash culture.

    Replies: @ThreeCranes, @Eric Novak

    “Australian culture today is simply American culture. Trash culture.”

    No way, man. You got those lifeguard competitions with all the lifesaving babes standing in line and those surfing row boat races where everyone wipes out and gets dislocated shoulders. No way we Yanks can compete with that.

  111. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Yan Shen

    I've long held the opinion that European federalism holds such a deep sway amongst certain elements of the European political class due to a secret and unadmitted 'United States envy'.
    Power is what drives these people. They see others having ultimate power and want a bit of it themselves.
    It really *is* as shallow and childish as that.

    Replies: @Charles Pewitt, @Anonymous

    QUOTE: I’ve long held the opinion that European federalism holds such a deep sway amongst certain elements of the European political class due to a secret and unadmitted ‘United States envy’.

    The other factor is a vast pedophile sex/murder network supplying EU politicians and bureaucrats. Only one corner of this network came to public notice through the case of MARC DUTROUX.

  112. @Herzog
    Traditional big gov lefty Schulz was president of the European "Parliament" for many years: The knee-jerk attitudes confirmed / acquired (and lavishly paid for!) there likely inform his proposal.

    Otherwise, Schulz is just an outdated fool -- and a particularly ugly fool at that, even by the standards applicable to politicians. For twenty years minimum now, his party has been on a steady downward trajectory. Currently, the SPD score about twenty per cent of the votes in German federal elections, while in the 1980 / 1990s it was almost twice that rate.

    The SPD are scared shitless by the rise of the Populist Right in Germany in the form of the AfD Party, which despite the Cathedral agitating against them 24/7 won thirteen per cent in September's federal elections, and are now present in the Bundestag for the first time, with almost one hundred representatives.

    So, as Vox Day likes to say, SJW always double down. That's what Schulz is doing with his crazy proposal. It only evoked reactions between amused / bemused shrugs and scathing irony in the larger German political discourse.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    Schulz and Merkel are front men for moneyed interests. Both have been instructed to work towards unification of Europe and subversion of democratic structures by elite institutions.

    Official democracy will continue as bread and games.

    Vote rigging will became an even more accepted and blatant practice throughout the EU.

    IIRC, it was Lenin who noted: “it’s not who votes, but who counts the votes.” (Probably sounds better in the original German. Everyone knows that Lenin spoke and wrote German, right?)

  113. @Ben Kurtz
    Wars have been fought for less.

    It's a good thing, then, that the United States continues to maintain an army of occupation in Europe. We'll need it in order to keep the expansionist Germans in check.

    https://benkurtzblog.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/brexit-and-the-u-s-army-of-occupation-in-europe/

    I've long believed that Europe would be better served with the German-speaking peoples divided up among at least 5 independent sovereign states (East Germany, West Germany-Ruhr, West Germany-Bavaria, Austria, Switzerland). The current Federal Republic of Germany is too big and powerful for its (and Europe's) own good.

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic, @RadicalCenter, @RadicalCenter

    We should likewise divide up Israel into pieces because of the massive influence it exercises in the USA and elsewhere. Don’t you think so, Benjamin?

  114. @Yan Shen
    @Issac

    Richard Spencer is hardly alone in this. Just look at Jared Taylor, Steve Sailer, or any of the other numerous American white nationalist bloggers and most of the commenters here. Sorry did I say uh white? I meant people who think they're white, obviously.

    I suspect most Europeans view Americans and in particular American white nationalists with a bit of amusement.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Karl, @Eric Novak

    “Men” who cover up and excuse and even subsidize foreign men who are raping and groping their women, aren’t in any position to be condescendingly “amused” by other men.

    Oh no, the guy who apologized to the Muslim groping his daughter isn’t impressed by ME. Horrors!

    Go back to sucking Achmed off, Horst, and shove your lectures in your favorite place.

  115. @BB753
    @German_reader

    Ok, maybe so but Germany always has the last word. The French give up power and sovereignty in exchange for subsidies.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    The last word Germany will have will be in Arabic.

  116. A former president of the European parliament and committed federalist, he appears to have seized on Europe as a new central cause for the SPD after it suffered its worst ever election result in September.

    An example of A.J.P. Taylor’s principle that, in any alliance, the weaker party has the upper hand.

  117. @Reg Cæsar
    @RadicalCenter


    But we are so disgusted with the Germans, and so pessimistic about their very will to survive as a nation
     
    Germany was never a real nation anyway, just a compilation of principalities and duchies with more-or-less the same language who united only because the French kept causing them trouble.

    If neighboring nations can be contained, Germans might be better off with an extreme devolution and even a return to local monarchies. They don't have to look far for a working example; Switzerland is next door and 3/4 of them write in German. (I was going to say "speak", but that's more problematical.)

    How open did those landgraves and margraves leave their borders in previous centuries?

    Replies: @Mr. Anon

    Germany was never a real nation anyway…

    Yes, it was.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Mr. Anon




    Germany was never a real nation anyway…
     
    Yes, it was.

     

    Then why did she take until 1870 to congeal? The same can be asked of Italy.

    The "nation-state", like the metric system, is a French thing.

    And to which nation do the Alsatians truly belong?
  118. @Ben Kurtz
    Wars have been fought for less.

    It's a good thing, then, that the United States continues to maintain an army of occupation in Europe. We'll need it in order to keep the expansionist Germans in check.

    https://benkurtzblog.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/brexit-and-the-u-s-army-of-occupation-in-europe/

    I've long believed that Europe would be better served with the German-speaking peoples divided up among at least 5 independent sovereign states (East Germany, West Germany-Ruhr, West Germany-Bavaria, Austria, Switzerland). The current Federal Republic of Germany is too big and powerful for its (and Europe's) own good.

    Replies: @Diversity Heretic, @RadicalCenter, @RadicalCenter

    I’m sure you have the best interests of the german and European people at heart. What a Mensch.

    • Replies: @Ben Kurtz
    @RadicalCenter

    I can take or leave the Germans. They've started a few too many wars for their own good.

    My proposal has more to do with what I think would better serve the English, French, Poles, Czech, Hungarians and assorted other nations of Europe. If that sets the Germans back a bit -- so be it.

  119. @Yan Shen

    But thankfully it’s different for whites here. Most of us absolutely have a pan-white identity, with loyalty to and affection for all other white Americans no matter where in Europe their people came from,
     
    Which most Europeans would consider strange, and rightfully so.

    It could work if it was not a superstate but an alliance of sovereign countries seeking together to facilitate trade, easier tourist and business travel, increased cultural and student exchange programs, and common border control efforts against Third World immivasion.
     
    Sadly one of the issues confronting Western Europe is the influx of Eastern European prostitutes. My guess is if you ask many British or Germans what they associate Romanian immigrants with, they might say hookers.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @RadicalCenter, @Anonymous

    You mean the people who invite and subsidize and fawn over the men groping and raping their daughters and attacking and intimidating their sons? Those Europeans? Yeah, we are really concerned with their opinion of us.

    And why would they think it strange to have loyalty to, and affection for, other white people, given the common values and common enemies we have, and how tiny a portion of the world’s population we are? Yeah, WE’RE strange.

    Grow that beard now, Francois, and bend over. When Achmed lets you catch your breath, you can express your disdain for white Americans some more.

  120. @Yan Shen

    But thankfully it’s different for whites here. Most of us absolutely have a pan-white identity, with loyalty to and affection for all other white Americans no matter where in Europe their people came from,
     
    Which most Europeans would consider strange, and rightfully so.

    It could work if it was not a superstate but an alliance of sovereign countries seeking together to facilitate trade, easier tourist and business travel, increased cultural and student exchange programs, and common border control efforts against Third World immivasion.
     
    Sadly one of the issues confronting Western Europe is the influx of Eastern European prostitutes. My guess is if you ask many British or Germans what they associate Romanian immigrants with, they might say hookers.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @RadicalCenter, @Anonymous

    Yes, Romanian prostitutes ought to be one of the top concerns of Germans, French, swedes, and brits right now. Glad we cleared that up.

  121. @Jonathan Silber
    Whatever the form political institutions may take in Europe, only the Germans appear possessed of an enduring will to dominate them, and the ability to do so, if for the present in bad conscience.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    Germans mostly don’t have children, don’t allow themselves firearms for self defense, and are afraid to even tell the truth about who is raping, assaulting, robbing, and intimidating their own people. They can’t even “dominate” their own land.

    The only people who could make modern Germans look dominant in the EU are the even more timid, confused, brainwashed pussies in France and Sweden.

  122. @dfordoom
    @RadicalCenter


    Most of us absolutely have a pan-white identity, with loyalty to and affection for all other white Americans no matter where in Europe their people came from,
     
    Is that really true? Are you saying that a merchant banker in Manhattan has a deep loyalty to and affection for a factory worker in Pittsburgh just because they're both white? Does a blue-haired feminist landwhale doing gender studies at Berkeley have a deep loyalty to and affection for a truck driver who lives in a small town in Kansas just because he's a fellow white person? Do flaming homosexuals from San Francisco experience a surge of fellow feeling when they see a white working class person wearing a MAGA hat?

    White people are bitterly divided on class and ideological lines, and class and ideological hatreds are exceptionally vicious. A pan-white identity is a nice fantasy but that's all it is.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Eric Novak

    I said most, not all by any means. And yes, it is declining under concerted attack and brainwashing of our young people for generations.

    And your putative “manhattan banker” generally isn’t an unalloyed white European person anyway. Capice?

    • Replies: @Corvinus
    @RadicalCenter

    "Who exactly will our kids be able to speak German with in 25 years and 40 years from now? A motley group of less intelligent, less productive, less attractive, less culturally compatible half Africans or half Arabs and/or Muslims who don’t share our genes, our history, our legends and heroes, our values, mores, hopes, expectations, sense of humor, sense of fairness, etc."

    Management thanks you for your opinion on this matter.

    , @dfordoom
    @RadicalCenter


    I said most, not all by any means. And yes, it is declining under concerted attack and brainwashing of our young people for generations.
     
    I'm sceptical as to whether there's ever been any kind of solidarity between white people. You're totally ignoring class divides. The white upper classes and the white working class have always hated each other. You're also ignoring city/country divides. City people have always despised country dwellers. These hatreds existed even in countries that were fairly ethnically homogeneous. Add ideological hatreds to the mix and white solidarity looks like a myth.

    It's certainly getting worse but whites have never been united.

    I'm not even sure that white solidarity would be desirable, even if it were possible.
  123. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @eD
    @Anonymous

    "The big flaw with your argument is that the virtual entirety of the British political class, the elites – and most importantly of all, The Economics magazine fought tooth-and-nail to keep Britain in the EU."

    No, but they did it to destroy the EU, not to save it.

    The British ruling classes have also been doing a favor to the US deep state, which wants pan European institutions, but weak ones, for reasons that should be obvious if you think about it for a few minutes.
    The only value of the British to the American deep state is as a sort of cat's paw in Europe, so they are all in. They have missed out on opportunities to carve out an identity or position of strength not dependent on the USA.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Anonymous

    The goal of the so-called EEC right from the get-go with the 1957 Treaty of Rome was always ‘full monetary political and economic union’ ie a federal Europe.
    British politicians were and are fully aware of this, and have maintained a policy of deliberate lies, deception, conning the public, duplicity etc, edging toward a federal Europe by degrees.
    I repeat the British political class and elites are/were fully and passionately committed to a federal Europe and the abolition of the UK as a political unit.

    Along with a few others, Enoch Powell said this from the beginning.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    @Anonymous


    I repeat the British political class and elites are/were fully and passionately committed to a federal Europe and the abolition of the UK as a political unit.
     
    The one thing that has united the British political class and elites for the past century is their intense and malevolent hatred for Britain and for the British people.

    You have to understand that class is much more important than nation. The ruling classes in Britain do not consider themselves to be British. Their self-identification is based entirely on class. The same goes for the ruling classes throughout the modern West. These people do not feel the slightest affection for non-elite citizens of their own country. They hate and fear the working class and they hate and fear rural folk. They consider such people to be sub-human scum. They hate and fear everybody who isn't a fellow member of the ruling class.
  124. Anonymous [AKA "Mike55445"] says:
    @Reg Cæsar
    @Bill B.


    Just as amusing as those who think of the han Chineseas making up a civilisation?

     

    The Han Chinese are a hell of a lot more homogeneous than just white Americans, let alone Old Country whites. Even though "Chinese" is really five or six different languages, they see themselves as a unity, Sons of the Yellow Emperor.

    "White" is just a lowest common denominator. Real nations are a lot more specific, particular if you will.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    I left White behind a little while ago. Observe the world like a Rabbi, and you will to. “Let us discriminate…” the central essence of Halakah.

    Broadly speaking, there are 3 “white” races. One of them is Armenid, roughly the J2 haplotype. Jews and Turks (mostly one and the same) genetically speaking. The other two are Nordid. Everything else in Europe is a mix of these and other more foreign races, to include Mongoloid mixing a long time ago for some. Time accounts for a lot of difference that we see (or ignore) in races that look different but are essentially the same mix. A people or person that spawned from two of the same pure races mixing 100 years ago and 1000 years ago will look different, even if they are isolated from further foreign genetic input after the mixing.

    Gain an eye for the detail of skull shape. It tells all. Learn to view your politics not by nation, or even by skin color, but on pure genetics that are going to mostly be revealed through skull shape. Jews do. They wrapped their Armenid genetics in Judaism to fight the Nords and others, even being somewhat closely related to Nords on the genetic tree. I and J are genetic brothers. This ability to see past nation and skin color is why they are able to keep such close genetic consistency (again, look at skull shape), in many cases being pure armenid in a fashion that even isolated Nordids have difficulty mimicking. Look at the average Haredi gathering. Two or more individuals. The genetic consistency is astounding and, outside of Asia, is pretty rare. Good or bad, they are almost clones apart from an obvious streak of Red Nordid+ Mongoloid gentic expression. Like every fifth one looks either Scotch-Irish / relatively pure Red Slavic (again, Red Nord + Mongol).

    Differing whites can be allies, of course, but the difference has to remain. We aren’t all the same. I’m mixed (two relatively pure but different varieties of white, neither of which are Armenid btw) and I would not presume to have a place among the pure stock of those of my better half. I would much rather raise the stock of those of my somewhat worse half. That’s the perspective we need as a broad group, imo.

  125. Anonymous • Disclaimer says:
    @Yan Shen

    But thankfully it’s different for whites here. Most of us absolutely have a pan-white identity, with loyalty to and affection for all other white Americans no matter where in Europe their people came from,
     
    Which most Europeans would consider strange, and rightfully so.

    It could work if it was not a superstate but an alliance of sovereign countries seeking together to facilitate trade, easier tourist and business travel, increased cultural and student exchange programs, and common border control efforts against Third World immivasion.
     
    Sadly one of the issues confronting Western Europe is the influx of Eastern European prostitutes. My guess is if you ask many British or Germans what they associate Romanian immigrants with, they might say hookers.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @RadicalCenter, @Anonymous

    For the ‘John’ class of sexually incontinent Englishmen, this has been the best thing ever.
    Believe, it or not, the ‘law of supply and demand’ – as regularly castigated by The Economist magazine – works in this instance too, and isn’t just an instrument for grinding down industrial wages.
    The result is as Churchill himself might have put it’,’Never before have so many screwed so much for so little’, and the general standard of hooker in terms of looks, youth and personality is miles better than when the trade was dominated by some rather skanky English women in the pre-Blair days.
    Add in a huge influx of ever so keen Brazilian women, and New Labour’s feminista stand and open borders didn’t work out too well…….

  126. @Anonymous

    more pro-European and not quite so pro-Eritrean
     
    Or pro-Burkina-Fasoan

    Macron went on an absolute tear: flipped Invade-Invite on its head, then stomped on it -- that is, Invite -- in front of a crowd of horrified neoliberal ex-fans.

    https://twitter.com/OnlyAfricaFacts/status/938877344374231041

    Replies: @Anonymous, @BB753, @Bill, @Eric Novak

    Third World logic-the number of French soldiers fighting and dying to rid Africa of ISIS at the behest of African governments should not exceed the number of African students in French universities because white colonialists owe Africans not only their lives but their seats at university as reparations for fighting for Africa.

  127. @Yan Shen
    @Issac

    Richard Spencer is hardly alone in this. Just look at Jared Taylor, Steve Sailer, or any of the other numerous American white nationalist bloggers and most of the commenters here. Sorry did I say uh white? I meant people who think they're white, obviously.

    I suspect most Europeans view Americans and in particular American white nationalists with a bit of amusement.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Karl, @Eric Novak

    73 Yan Shen > Steve Sailer, or any of the other numerous American white nationalist bloggers

    actual white nationalists aren’t busy reading forward.com and _The Atlantic_

  128. @YetAnotherAnon
    @Kevin O'Keeffe

    "Wouldn’t it be a great joke be on the left, if Germany managed to gain control of a new, federalized Europe…and then AfD won the next election?"

    Then the AfD would probably find that they're in office, but not in power. The globalists are deeply entrenched in German and EU structures, just as they are in UK and US structures, media, academia, courts etc. UK's globalists (and their useful idiots) have been fighting against Brexit (and for the EU) for the past 18 months.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @Karl

    89 YetAnotherAnon > Then the AfD would probably find that they’re in office, but not in power. The globalists are deeply entrenched in German and EU structures, just as they are in UK and US structures, media, academia, courts etc

    i’ll let you be the one to explain to Hillary that she’s actually still pulling the levers of power

  129. @Yan Shen

    You know, it strikes me that one way Europeanism could be more popular with European voters would be by being more pro-European and not quite so pro-Eritrean.
     
    Pan-Europeanism is one of those ideas that well intentioned but uh naive American white nationalists often like to promote or fantasize about. In reality it's not a particularly realistic thing, as anyone who's been paying attention to some of the recent ongoings in Europe may be aware, for the simple fact that outside of Germany, the UK, the Nordic/Scandinavian countries, and possibly France, the rest of Europe isn't particularly competitive in much.

    Seeing Greeks constantly protest and complain about the Germans and demanding reparations eerily parallels the way that blacks and whites interact in this country. One can easily imagine the Greek Ta Nehisi Coates penning masterpieces about how Greece is entitled to perpetual reparations and atonement from the Germans because violent and racist Germans brutalized Greek bodies back in the day. Sorry, did I say Germans? I meant uh people who thought they were Germans brutalized innocent Greek bodies during World War 2.

    Anyway, the Germans no more want to carry around Greek or Polish deadweight than productive Americans here want to blamed for all of the failings of blacks or Hispanics. As someone who isn't a huge fan of the current trend towards open borders globalization a la Bryan Caplan, my hope is that in areas like Europe, Asia, Africa, etc. where traditional ethnic nation states have reigned, we can continue to embrace the self-determination of peoples.

    Replies: @Anonymous, @bomag, @backup, @Random Lurker, @songbird, @Expletive Deleted, @Eric Novak

    Germany is concerned with maintaining its profits from its client states in Eastern Europe, especially Poland, after Germany’s 25-year, $100 billion investments in the form of infrastructure and industrial capital. Poland has the whip hand, not Germany.

  130. @Yan Shen
    @Issac

    Richard Spencer is hardly alone in this. Just look at Jared Taylor, Steve Sailer, or any of the other numerous American white nationalist bloggers and most of the commenters here. Sorry did I say uh white? I meant people who think they're white, obviously.

    I suspect most Europeans view Americans and in particular American white nationalists with a bit of amusement.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Karl, @Eric Novak

    Europe is far more unified and open to permeability of other Europeans in the face of the new reality, as evidenced by Poland’s pan-European mass gathering of the international right. Identity has widened greatly. The differences between US Alt Right thinking and its counterparts in Europe have been shrinking.

  131. @dfordoom
    @RadicalCenter


    Most of us absolutely have a pan-white identity, with loyalty to and affection for all other white Americans no matter where in Europe their people came from,
     
    Is that really true? Are you saying that a merchant banker in Manhattan has a deep loyalty to and affection for a factory worker in Pittsburgh just because they're both white? Does a blue-haired feminist landwhale doing gender studies at Berkeley have a deep loyalty to and affection for a truck driver who lives in a small town in Kansas just because he's a fellow white person? Do flaming homosexuals from San Francisco experience a surge of fellow feeling when they see a white working class person wearing a MAGA hat?

    White people are bitterly divided on class and ideological lines, and class and ideological hatreds are exceptionally vicious. A pan-white identity is a nice fantasy but that's all it is.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Eric Novak

    Pan-white identity was realized for generations. The banker isn’t white, and the land whale is an outlier. The overwhelming white contradiction is whites’ insufferable genetic predisposition to travel to far off lands, bring whiteness to the natives, then disparage the failed whiteness-conversion attempt by the whites who failed to inculcate whiteness among the savages and cannibals.

  132. @dfordoom
    @RadicalCenter


    A pan-white-European culture and polity is exactly what was developing, and working very well, in the USA before the floodgates were foolishly opened to mass third world immigration.

     

    Unfortunately that pan-white-European culture was terribly shallow and essentially artificial. It was too feeble to offer any resistance to any threat. It didn't really mean anything to anyone. By the 50s American culture was essentially Jewish culture.

    We have the same problem in Australia although in our case it's self-inflicted. We could have established an Australian Anglo-Celtic culture but we threw it all away. Australian culture today is simply American culture. Trash culture.

    Replies: @ThreeCranes, @Eric Novak

    So the Jews got to the Aussies as well.

  133. @RadicalCenter
    @YetAnotherAnon

    Good observations, sir.

    I can confirm that our family probably will never visit London, Paris, Stockholm, and Rome as I had always hoped to do, for precisely the reason that you mentioned.

    We will redirect our time, money, and attention instead to any remaining European countries that maintain a solidly white population and a civilized European culture, protect the safety and peace of mind of their own people, and make fellow civilized visitors safe and welcome. Hopefully Poland, Hungary, maybe Czech Repub and Slovakia and Austria, not many more from the looks of it.

    Even more specifically, I have german heritage and know a fair amount of their language, and our kids have been learning it from a very young age. But we are so disgusted with the Germans, and so pessimistic about their very will to survive as a nation (not just a "country"), that we are beginning to doubt whether it's worth the effort. They could instead learn the language of some kindred people who seem to love their own people and desire to remain who they are, such as (so far) Poland, even Russia.

    Who exactly will our kids be able to speak German with in 25 years and 40 years from now? A motley group of less intelligent, less productive, less attractive, less culturally compatible half Africans or half Arabs and/or Muslims who don't share our genes, our history, our legends and heroes, our values, mores, hopes, expectations, sense of humor, sense of fairness, etc.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @YetAnotherAnon

    A new “cheapo” airline, WizzAir, is taking advantage of the increased tourism to Eastern Europe from UK.

    My daughter left the Berlin Christmas market half an hour before the truck attack last year. It’s just not worth going to France, Belgium, Germany when you can go to Budapest or Warsaw.

    https://twitter.com/BasedPoland/status/938149604234858496

  134. In other words, he wants a neo-Marxist fourth Reich, this time finally dominating all of Europe.

  135. @RadicalCenter
    @Altai

    Fair point about white groups in Europe perceiving themselves as more separate from other white groups in Europe, than they are here in the USA.

    But thankfully it's different for whites here. Most of us absolutely have a pan-white identity, with loyalty to and affection for all other white Americans no matter where in Europe their people came from,

    My ancestors came here, from EVERY region in Europe, precisely to become "detached" from Europe. Smart move.

    In any event, an EU including every current member -- but NOT Turkey -- could work just fine.

    It could work if it was not a superstate but an alliance of sovereign countries seeking together to facilitate trade, easier tourist and business travel, increased cultural and student exchange programs, and common border control efforts against Third World immivasion.

    Replies: @dfordoom, @AndrewR

    But thankfully it’s different for whites here. Most of us absolutely have a pan-white identity, with loyalty to and affection for all other white Americans no matter where in Europe their people came from,

    Just shut up

  136. @Expletive Deleted
    @Yan Shen


    the Germans no more want to carry around Greek or Polish deadweight than
     
    they wish to run a rigged trade surplus against defenceless Mediterranean donkey-powered meme-nations.
    The whole point of the single currency and EU-funded "development" was to artificially lower barriers (a.k.a. being utterly skint, and not having roads etc.) to turbo-dumping of expensive German manufacturing exports on everyone else without having the Mark revalued to the stratosphere.
    Also kept German worker-drones quiet and passive over their lack of sharing in the increased productivity through what would otherwise be better wages.

    That's why Greece freaked them out so much. They (and the French, tagging along as usual) had lent, or as it turned out given the cunning Boss Stavros's an obscene mountain of cash in the expectation that it would be dutifully recycled into buying fine engineering and sausages. And not just trousered, cutting raggedy-ass Greek peasants out of the deal. Result, "Now ve are confiscate your entire country, nasty ordinary Greek peoples!!"
    TBH I'm surprised the Hellenes aren't shooting them Hermans in their holiday villas for this, like they were doing in the Balearics a few years back.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    You’re right about the effect of the euro. It keeps German industry competitive and German workers employed. But creates tremendous friction because Europeans are not remotely equally competitive nor are European economies all in sync in their business cycles. (We have these problems regionally in the US, but they are manageable. And when things get really bad regionally, Americans actually pack up and move.) It takes individual nation’s use of monetary policy mostly off the table. The Euro was an *obviously* stupid idea pushed by Euro elites out of “ever closer union” ideology and will to power.

    However you’re really letting the Greeks–undeservedly–off the hook. The euro was not something Germany jammed down everyone else’s throat. Giving up the D-mark was a tough sell to Germans–not German industry, but actual Germans. This was a French initiative–toward “ever closer union” and yoking Germany. And the southern Europeans jumped at the chance to get in and have a currency that they wouldn’t debase. The Greeks instead of disciplining themselves to get in, put their budgetary statistics on the rack and tortured them to pretend to meet the joining criteria. Then once in they suddenly had much cheaper credit–with currency devaluation risk removed–and went on a glorious spending spree.

    The people responsible for the Greek crisis are … the Greeks. Fundamentally they felt/feel that they are entitled to consume at a “European” standard of living, which they don’t actually produce. (Not an odd trait, feeling entitled to spend more than you produce seems to affect a significant number of humans.) And after joining the euro were able to do it by borrowing … for a while. The can end German “oppression”, by simply leaving the euro, returning to the drachma and standing on their own two feet fiscally. That of course entails a lower standard of living more in line with what Greeks actually produce.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @AnotherDad

    It I'll behooves me to remark here that The Economist magazine - and a clear majority of 'professional and academic economists' - were dead set in favor of the Euro.

  137. You know, it strikes me that one way Europeanism could be more popular with European voters would be by being more pro-European and not quite so pro-Eritrean.

    The core value of the European Union is that Europeans should cease to exist.

  138. @Nico
    @songbird


    What is really amusing to me are the people (mostly very white liberals) trying to split off Southern Europeans in an obvious attempt to add their numbers into their anti-white coalition.
     
    Actually, if anything it's the other way around: Southern Europeans want to be seen as "Mediterranean" instead of "white" if at all possible and still have their Christian Greco-Roman civilization. So far, that doesn't fly with liberals, not to mention with any actual POCs anywhere.

    Replies: @Anon

    There’s some attempt by Jews to get Italians into their whole Ellis-Island cult, not to mention going gaga over Sacco and Vanzetti. It doesn’t fly.

    Of course you were probably talking about actual Southern Europeans in Southern Europe. Don’t mind me.

  139. @RadicalCenter
    @dfordoom

    I said most, not all by any means. And yes, it is declining under concerted attack and brainwashing of our young people for generations.

    And your putative "manhattan banker" generally isn't an unalloyed white European person anyway. Capice?

    Replies: @Corvinus, @dfordoom

    “Who exactly will our kids be able to speak German with in 25 years and 40 years from now? A motley group of less intelligent, less productive, less attractive, less culturally compatible half Africans or half Arabs and/or Muslims who don’t share our genes, our history, our legends and heroes, our values, mores, hopes, expectations, sense of humor, sense of fairness, etc.”

    Management thanks you for your opinion on this matter.

  140. @RadicalCenter
    @dfordoom

    I said most, not all by any means. And yes, it is declining under concerted attack and brainwashing of our young people for generations.

    And your putative "manhattan banker" generally isn't an unalloyed white European person anyway. Capice?

    Replies: @Corvinus, @dfordoom

    I said most, not all by any means. And yes, it is declining under concerted attack and brainwashing of our young people for generations.

    I’m sceptical as to whether there’s ever been any kind of solidarity between white people. You’re totally ignoring class divides. The white upper classes and the white working class have always hated each other. You’re also ignoring city/country divides. City people have always despised country dwellers. These hatreds existed even in countries that were fairly ethnically homogeneous. Add ideological hatreds to the mix and white solidarity looks like a myth.

    It’s certainly getting worse but whites have never been united.

    I’m not even sure that white solidarity would be desirable, even if it were possible.

  141. @Anonymous
    @eD

    The goal of the so-called EEC right from the get-go with the 1957 Treaty of Rome was always 'full monetary political and economic union' ie a federal Europe.
    British politicians were and are fully aware of this, and have maintained a policy of deliberate lies, deception, conning the public, duplicity etc, edging toward a federal Europe by degrees.
    I repeat the British political class and elites are/were fully and passionately committed to a federal Europe and the abolition of the UK as a political unit.

    Along with a few others, Enoch Powell said this from the beginning.

    Replies: @dfordoom

    I repeat the British political class and elites are/were fully and passionately committed to a federal Europe and the abolition of the UK as a political unit.

    The one thing that has united the British political class and elites for the past century is their intense and malevolent hatred for Britain and for the British people.

    You have to understand that class is much more important than nation. The ruling classes in Britain do not consider themselves to be British. Their self-identification is based entirely on class. The same goes for the ruling classes throughout the modern West. These people do not feel the slightest affection for non-elite citizens of their own country. They hate and fear the working class and they hate and fear rural folk. They consider such people to be sub-human scum. They hate and fear everybody who isn’t a fellow member of the ruling class.

  142. anon • Disclaimer says:

    Ha. Bonehead centralist typical socialist mis-interpretation of the US Constitution.

    The US has 57 jurisdictions with their own foreign policy, and that’s simplifying it given things like sister cities.

    The Libertarians don’t give a damn and have been cheerfully running their own successful foreign policy for decades with groups in every country, something even the commies never could manage. They want to see US-like continental sister confederacies, not centralized monstrosities, and led Brexit to make their point.

    I doubt the Vatican will toe the line either. The Spaniards will only stick with it to push around the Germans.

    Social Democratic parties should be treated as the racketeer groups they are.

  143. @AnotherDad
    @Expletive Deleted

    You're right about the effect of the euro. It keeps German industry competitive and German workers employed. But creates tremendous friction because Europeans are not remotely equally competitive nor are European economies all in sync in their business cycles. (We have these problems regionally in the US, but they are manageable. And when things get really bad regionally, Americans actually pack up and move.) It takes individual nation's use of monetary policy mostly off the table. The Euro was an *obviously* stupid idea pushed by Euro elites out of "ever closer union" ideology and will to power.

    However you're really letting the Greeks--undeservedly--off the hook. The euro was not something Germany jammed down everyone else's throat. Giving up the D-mark was a tough sell to Germans--not German industry, but actual Germans. This was a French initiative--toward "ever closer union" and yoking Germany. And the southern Europeans jumped at the chance to get in and have a currency that they wouldn't debase. The Greeks instead of disciplining themselves to get in, put their budgetary statistics on the rack and tortured them to pretend to meet the joining criteria. Then once in they suddenly had much cheaper credit--with currency devaluation risk removed--and went on a glorious spending spree.

    The people responsible for the Greek crisis are ... the Greeks. Fundamentally they felt/feel that they are entitled to consume at a "European" standard of living, which they don't actually produce. (Not an odd trait, feeling entitled to spend more than you produce seems to affect a significant number of humans.) And after joining the euro were able to do it by borrowing ... for a while. The can end German "oppression", by simply leaving the euro, returning to the drachma and standing on their own two feet fiscally. That of course entails a lower standard of living more in line with what Greeks actually produce.

    Replies: @Anonymous

    It I’ll behooves me to remark here that The Economist magazine – and a clear majority of ‘professional and academic economists’ – were dead set in favor of the Euro.

  144. @Mr. Anon
    @Reg Cæsar


    Germany was never a real nation anyway...
     
    Yes, it was.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Germany was never a real nation anyway…

    Yes, it was.

    Then why did she take until 1870 to congeal? The same can be asked of Italy.

    The “nation-state”, like the metric system, is a French thing.

    And to which nation do the Alsatians truly belong?

  145. @RadicalCenter
    @Ben Kurtz

    I'm sure you have the best interests of the german and European people at heart. What a Mensch.

    Replies: @Ben Kurtz

    I can take or leave the Germans. They’ve started a few too many wars for their own good.

    My proposal has more to do with what I think would better serve the English, French, Poles, Czech, Hungarians and assorted other nations of Europe. If that sets the Germans back a bit — so be it.

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